Messages in AquaticLife group.

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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30770	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30771	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Base line test
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30772	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30773	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Coral Beauty Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30774	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30775	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: dropsy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30776	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Feeding question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30777	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: dropsy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30778	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: How to move my plec from one established tank to a larger establishe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30779	From: dragula707	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: hello group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30780	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: dropsy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: How to move my plec from one established tank to a larger establ
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30782	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: dropsy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30783	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: dropsy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30784	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: hello group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30785	From: iowakoi	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: The importance of measuring your pond water temps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30786	From: dragula707	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: hello group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30787	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: dropsy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30788	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: How to move my plec from one established tank to a larger establ
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30789	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Base line test
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30790	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: New to Aquatic life list
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: New to Aquatic life list
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30792	From: Nedra	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal/Nedra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30793	From: Lisa	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: New to Aquatic life list
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30794	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Base line test
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30795	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal/Nedra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30796	From: greychildren	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: hi new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30798	From: Chris	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: My guppies scavenging
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30799	From: Chris	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30800	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: My guppies scavenging
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30801	From: Chris	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: My guppies scavenging
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30802	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: My guppies scavenging
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30803	From: Alina	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Setting up 10 gal ....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30804	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: water stats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30805	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up 10 gal ....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30806	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: My guppies scavenging
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30807	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30808	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30809	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30810	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30811	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30812	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30813	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30814	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30815	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30816	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30817	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Group Picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30819	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30821	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Cycling Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30822	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30823	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Reference Link Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30824	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30825	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30826	From: Nedra	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30827	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30829	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30830	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30831	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Reference Link Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30832	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30833	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Reference Link Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30834	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30835	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30836	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30837	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30838	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30839	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30840	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30841	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30842	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: your opinion on this product
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30843	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Reference Link Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30845	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Reference Link Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30846	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: your opinion on this product
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30848	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30849	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30850	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30851	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30854	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30855	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30863	From: Leonard Vasbinder	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30864	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30865	From: Suzi	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30866	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30868	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30869	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30870	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30871	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30872	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30873	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Green Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30874	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30875	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up 10 gal ....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30876	From: kfm241	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30877	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30878	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Australian blue yabbies.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30879	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30880	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Australian blue yabbies.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30881	From: babsdvs	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30882	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30883	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30884	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30885	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30886	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Atlas of Livebearers of the World.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30887	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penguin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30888	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30889	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30890	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30891	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30892	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30893	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30894	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30895	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30896	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30897	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30898	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30899	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30900	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30901	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30903	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30904	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30905	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30906	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30907	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30908	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Australian blue yabbies.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30909	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30913	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30914	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30915	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30916	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30917	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30918	From: greychildren	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30919	From: laurelb2002	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30920	From: greychildren	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Serpa tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30921	From: hank voss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30922	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30923	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30925	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30927	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30928	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30929	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30930	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: your opinion on this product
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30931	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Ozone and fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30932	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30933	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30934	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30935	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30936	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30937	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30938	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: your opinion on this product
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30939	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30940	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30941	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30942	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30943	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30944	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30945	From: hank voss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Serpa tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30946	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30947	From: hank voss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30948	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30949	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ozone and fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30951	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30952	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30953	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30954	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30955	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30957	From: Jennie	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30958	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30960	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30961	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30962	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30963	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30964	From: Jennie	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30966	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30967	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30968	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30969	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30971	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30972	From: Lisa	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30973	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30974	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30975	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: white clouds anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30976	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30977	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: white clouds anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: white clouds anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30979	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30980	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Back to api master kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30981	From: Chris	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30982	From: Blue fish	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Back to api master kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30985	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30986	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30987	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help!! (now Goldfish feeding)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30988	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30989	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30990	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30991	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30992	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30993	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30994	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30996	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30997	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30998	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30999	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31000	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31001	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31002	From: Wendie	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31003	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31004	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31006	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Back to api master kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31007	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Back to api master kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31008	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31009	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31010	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31011	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31012	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ozone and fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31013	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31014	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31015	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31016	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31017	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31018	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31019	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: white clouds anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31020	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31021	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Back to api master kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31022	From: Margie	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31023	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31024	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31025	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31026	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: white clouds anyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31027	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31028	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31029	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31030	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31031	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Fosters and Smith
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31032	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31033	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Fosters and Smith
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31034	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Fosters and Smith
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31036	From: Chris	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Now its time for something you'll really like!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31037	From: Margie	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Now its time for something you'll really like!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31038	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Fosters and Smith
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31039	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31040	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Fosters and Smith
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31041	From: pam andress	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: white clouds anyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31042	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31043	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Fosters and Smith
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31044	From: Chris	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31045	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31046	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31047	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31048	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31049	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31050	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31051	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Saltwater to Freshwater Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31053	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31054	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31055	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Saltwater to Freshwater Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31056	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Saltwater to Freshwater Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31057	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Lighting from the saltwater setup useful?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting from the saltwater setup useful?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31059	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31060	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31061	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31062	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31063	From: Gerard	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: The Email Spooling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31064	From: Gerard	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Some kind of appology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31065	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31066	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31067	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31068	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31069	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31070	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31071	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31072	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31073	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31074	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31075	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31076	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31077	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31078	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31080	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31081	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31082	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31083	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31084	From: ajb21130	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Help with starting a fw planted aquarium pls
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31085	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31086	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31087	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31088	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31089	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31090	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting from the saltwater setup useful?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31092	From: Margie	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31093	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help with starting a fw planted aquarium pls
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31095	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31096	From: Margie	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31097	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31098	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31099	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31100	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31101	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31102	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31103	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31104	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of my
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31105	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31106	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31107	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31108	From: pam andress	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31109	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31110	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31111	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31112	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco feeding (was Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31113	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Silver Molly about to give birth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31114	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31115	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31116	From: greychildren	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31117	From: greychildren	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31118	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31119	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31120	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31121	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31122	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31123	From: Alina	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31124	From: alison elizabeth meredith	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31125	From: greychildren	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31126	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31127	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31128	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31129	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31130	From: mattsmom	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: help winter coming on
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31131	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31132	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31133	From: PATRICIA SALZMANN	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: GOLDFISH RESCUE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31134	From: ambyrlorenzo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31135	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31137	From: ambyrlorenzo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31138	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31139	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31140	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31141	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Rubernose Plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31142	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31143	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31144	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Rubernose Plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31148	From: ambyrlorenzo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31149	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31150	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31151	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31152	From: mattsmom	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31153	From: pam andress	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31154	From: Chris	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Vinegar Eels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31155	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31156	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31158	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Zebra Danio Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31159	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Vinegar Eels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31160	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31161	From: Alina	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31162	From: mike	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: cycling complete?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31163	From: mike	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: vacuuming sand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31164	From: pam andress	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31165	From: mattsmom	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31166	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31167	From: mattsmom	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31168	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31169	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: vacuuming sand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31170	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31171	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31173	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: vacuuming sand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31174	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31176	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Vinegar Eels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31177	From: Chris	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Vinegar Eels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31178	From: Jenn	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Kribensis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31179	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: vacuuming sand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31180	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31181	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31183	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31184	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31185	From: Alina	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31186	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31187	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31188	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: What is happening with my fish?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31189	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31190	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31191	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: hello.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31192	From: Alina	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31193	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31194	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31196	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Giving away my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31197	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31198	From: Alina	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31199	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31200	From: Chris	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: May I ask a favor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31201	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31202	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: May I ask a favor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31203	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: May I ask a favor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31204	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31205	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: May I ask a favor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31206	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: May I ask a favor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31207	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Ummmmmm i found the problem............:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31208	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31209	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Ummmmmm i found the problem............:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31210	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: May I ask a favor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31213	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Ummmmmm i found the problem............:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31214	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Ummmmmm i found the problem............:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31215	From: mike	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31216	From: mike	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: vacuuming sand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31217	From: mike	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31218	From: Chris	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: how close am I
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31219	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: vacuuming sand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31220	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: how close am I
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31222	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Ummmmmm i found the problem............:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31223	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: how close am I
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31224	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: how close am I
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31225	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31226	From: Angel in Pa	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Petco coupon if anyone could use it for their fishies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31227	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Petco coupon if anyone could use it for their fishies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31228	From: Chris	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: buying a new plant. Snail Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31229	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Kribensis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31230	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31231	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: buying a new plant. Snail Control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31232	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31233	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31234	From: warrenprint	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31235	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Some Books That May Be of Interest . . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31236	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31237	From: Alina	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31238	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: ok u guys.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31239	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31240	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Some Thoughts please...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31241	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31242	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31243	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31244	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31245	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Some Thoughts please...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31247	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Some Thoughts please...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31248	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Some Thoughts please...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31249	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31250	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Reasons to Read Your Water Quality Report
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31251	From: Chris	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Reasons to Read Your Water Quality Report
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31252	From: Alina	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31254	From: bill1433	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31255	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: kribs vs. corys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31256	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31257	From: harry perry	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fish sources
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31258	From: bill1433	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31259	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31260	From: bill1433	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fish sources
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31262	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31263	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31264	From: Alina	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31265	From: bill1433	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31267	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31268	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31269	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31272	From: greychildren	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31273	From: greychildren	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31274	From: will	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31275	From: greychildren	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31276	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31277	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31278	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31279	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Betta fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31280	From: Alina	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: It's working ...thanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31281	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Thanks for the pleco/sucker mouth articles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31282	From: Chris	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's working ...thanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31283	From: Chris	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31284	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31286	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31287	From: mike	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31288	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Betta fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31291	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's working ...thanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks for the pleco/sucker mouth articles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's working ...thanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31294	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31295	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31296	From: Alina	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's working ...thanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31297	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's working ...thanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31298	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31299	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31300	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31301	From: greychildren	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31304	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31306	From: Walden Nida	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Betta fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31307	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Aquarium Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31308	From: greychildren	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: yay hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31309	From: greychildren	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31310	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: yay hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31312	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31313	From: Chris	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31315	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31316	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31317	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31318	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31319	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31320	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31321	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31323	From: Alina	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Snails are still my torture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31324	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Snails are still my torture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31325	From: bill1433	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31326	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Missing a Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31327	From: Blue fish	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31328	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31329	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31330	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Is Ich-Attack safe for nitrifying bacteria?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31331	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Missing a Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31332	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Adding fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31333	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31334	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31335	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Adding fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31336	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Missing a Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31337	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31340	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Missing a Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31342	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Betta Experiment!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31343	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Experiment!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31344	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Experiment!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31345	From: caroline	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31346	From: bill1433	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31347	From: Gambusia Affinis	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31348	From: Chris	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31349	From: bill1433	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31350	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31351	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31353	From: caroline	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31354	From: caroline	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31355	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31356	From: pam andress	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31357	From: bill1433	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31358	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31359	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31360	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31361	From: Jennie	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Experiment!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31362	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31363	From: Chris	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31364	From: bill1433	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31365	From: Jennie	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31366	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31368	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31369	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31370	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31371	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31372	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31373	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31374	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31375	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31376	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31377	From: bill1433	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31378	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31379	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31380	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31381	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31382	From: Alina	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31383	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31384	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31385	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31386	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31387	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31388	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31389	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31390	From: bill1433	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31391	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31392	From: Alina	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31393	From: Alina	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31395	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31396	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: i have a list of fish.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31397	From: Alina	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: i have a list of fish.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31399	From: greychildren	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31400	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: i have a list of fish.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31402	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31403	From: greychildren	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: i have a list of fish.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31404	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: i have a list of fish.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31405	From: Alina	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31407	From: Chris	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31408	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31409	From: Robb	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Restarting a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31410	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Still no ammonia spike from the molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31411	From: Alina	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31412	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31413	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31414	From: Chris Owens	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31415	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31416	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31417	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31418	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31419	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31420	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: pH and PWC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31421	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31423	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31424	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31425	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31426	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31427	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31428	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31429	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31430	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31431	From: Chris Owens	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31432	From: Alina	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31433	From: Alina	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31434	From: Alina	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31435	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31436	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31438	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31439	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31441	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31442	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31443	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Still no ammonia spike from the molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31445	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: pH and PWC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31447	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Jan1213 tank suggestions (was: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in y
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31449	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Jan1213 tank suggestions (was: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31450	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31451	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Jan1213 tank suggestions (was: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31453	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31454	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31455	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31456	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen (was: Restarting a tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31457	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Jan1213 tank suggestions (was: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31458	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31460	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen (was: Restarting a tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31461	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31462	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31463	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31464	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31465	From: Jenn	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Skinny fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31466	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31467	From: ajb21130	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: PH question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31468	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: PH question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31469	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Skinny fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31470	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31471	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31472	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31473	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: PH question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31474	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31475	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31476	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31477	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: PH question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31478	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31479	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: PH question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31480	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31481	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31482	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31483	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31484	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31485	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31486	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31487	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31488	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31489	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31490	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31491	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31492	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31493	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31494	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31495	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31496	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Discontinued Tank Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31497	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31498	From: ajb21130	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: PH question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31499	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31500	From: ajb21130	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31501	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Discontinued Tank Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31502	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31503	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31504	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31505	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31506	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31507	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31508	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31509	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31510	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31511	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31512	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31513	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31514	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31515	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31516	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31517	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Discontinued Tank Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31518	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31520	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Discontinued Tank Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31521	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Discontinued Tank Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31522	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31523	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31524	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31525	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31526	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31527	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31528	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31529	From: Chris	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Wishing you and your sushi a great Sweetist Day!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31530	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31531	From: pam andress	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Catfish Convention
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31532	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31533	From: vivian bradish	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Rescued Fish All Lived, Can I mix these with other fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31534	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Trying To Explain?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31535	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31536	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Trying To Explain?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31537	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Catfish Convention
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31538	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31539	From: ajb21130	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31540	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31541	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Trying To Explain?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31542	From: GrammyPat	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: what a day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31543	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: what a day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31544	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: what a day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31545	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: what a day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31546	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Trying To Explain?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31547	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31548	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31549	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31550	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31551	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31552	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31553	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31554	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31555	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31556	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31557	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31558	From: greychildren	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31559	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31560	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31561	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31562	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31563	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Robot Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31564	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31565	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31566	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31567	From: Chris	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31568	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31569	From: bill1433	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31570	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31571	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31572	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31573	From: bill1433	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31574	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31575	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Eclipse System Three
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31576	From: Jennie	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31577	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31578	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31579	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eclipse System Three
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31580	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31581	From: bill1433	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31582	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31583	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Thanks For All Of The Suggestions About Bruce
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31585	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31586	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks For All Of The Suggestions About Bruce
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31587	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31588	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31589	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31590	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31591	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Pics of Bruce
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31592	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31593	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31594	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31595	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: SHARK!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31596	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31597	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31598	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31599	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31600	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Pics of Bruce
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31603	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31604	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31605	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31606	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31607	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31608	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31609	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31610	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31611	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31612	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31613	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31614	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31615	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31616	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31617	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31618	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31619	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31621	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31622	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31623	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31624	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31625	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31626	From: Jennie	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31627	From: Jennie	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31628	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: any opinions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31629	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: any opinions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: any opinions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31631	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31633	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31634	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31635	From: gardn4brds	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: white mold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31636	From: Jennie	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31637	From: Alina	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: In the blue
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31638	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31639	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: white mold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31640	From: Jennie	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31641	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: bear
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31642	From: gardn4brds	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: white mold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31643	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: bear
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31644	From: Chris Owens	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Return of the 18" plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31645	From: Chris Owens	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: bear
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31646	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: white mold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31647	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: bear
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31648	From: bill1433	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: bear
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: bear
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31650	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Return of the 18" plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31651	From: hank voss	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: white mold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31652	From: Lisa	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Shark tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31653	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Shark tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31654	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Shark tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31655	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Return of the 18" plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Return of the 18" plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31657	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31658	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31659	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31660	From: greychildren	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31662	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31663	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: foul smelling water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31664	From: gardn4brds	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: white mold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31665	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31666	From: Alina	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31667	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: white mold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31668	From: greychildren	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: not so nice smelling tank water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31669	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31670	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31671	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31672	From: greychildren	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: foul smelling water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31673	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31674	From: pam andress	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31675	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31676	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31677	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31678	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31679	From: greychildren	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: foul smelling water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31680	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31681	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31682	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Scud shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Scud shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31684	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: White Clouds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31685	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31686	From: jcjjj5	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31687	From: bill1433	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Lost Again??? Yo Lenny?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31688	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31689	From: dtrc rc	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31690	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31691	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Lost Again??? Yo Lenny?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31692	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Lost Again??? Yo Lenny?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31693	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31694	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31695	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31696	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31697	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31698	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31699	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31701	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31702	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31703	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Lost Again??? Yo Lenny?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31704	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31705	From: Rei - Raymond Tremor	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Question about clown loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31706	From: Alina	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31707	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Question about clown loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31708	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31709	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Question about clown loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31710	From: identi1956	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: leaf compost
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31711	From: bill1433	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: About Pictures?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31712	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Babies are doing good
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31713	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: About Pictures?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Babies are doing good
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31716	From: bill1433	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Babies are doing good
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31717	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31718	From: bill1433	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Thanks Lenny!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31719	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31720	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31721	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31722	From: pam andress	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31723	From: shakedownscott	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Question about Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31725	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Digital Timers for Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31726	From: Scott Jackson	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31727	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Digital Timers for Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31728	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Digital Timers for Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31729	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Digital Timers for Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31730	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31731	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: foul smelling water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31732	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: leaf compost
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31733	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: leaf compost
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31734	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31735	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31736	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31737	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31738	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: leaf compost
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31739	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Babies are doing good
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31740	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Digital Timers for Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31741	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31742	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31743	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31744	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31745	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31746	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31747	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31748	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31749	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31750	From: pam andress	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31751	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31752	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31753	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31754	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Weather/Dojo Loach?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31755	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31756	From: pam andress	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31757	From: pam andress	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31758	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Anyone using X-10 controllers to control light pumps, feeders?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31759	From: Peaches	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone using X-10 controllers to control light pumps, feeders?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31760	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone using X-10 controllers to control light pumps, feeders?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31761	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31762	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31763	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31764	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31765	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31766	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31767	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM]RE: [AquaticLife] Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31768	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31769	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31770	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31771	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31772	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31773	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31774	From: gardn4brds	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: starting tank over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31775	From: hank voss	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31776	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: starting tank over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31777	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31778	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31779	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31780	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31782	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31783	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31784	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31785	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31787	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Broken Links in Messages WAS [RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater eme
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31788	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31789	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31790	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31791	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31792	From: bill1433	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Broken Links in Messages WAS [RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31793	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Pics of my 72g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31794	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Pics of my 72g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31795	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Pics of my 72g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31796	From: geckospot2000	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31797	From: greychildren	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31798	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31799	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: What sort of algae is this?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31800	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31801	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31802	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31803	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31804	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31805	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31806	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31807	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31808	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31809	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31810	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31811	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31812	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31813	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31814	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31816	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31817	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Another algae question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31818	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31819	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31821	From: gardn4brds	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: starting tank over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31822	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: starting tank over
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31823	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31824	From: Wendie	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: 3 day old bristlenose plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31825	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31826	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31827	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: 3 day old bristlenose plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31829	From: Wendie	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: 3 day old bristlenose plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31830	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31831	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31832	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31833	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31834	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31835	From: harry perry	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy /Joanna
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31836	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31837	From: Katie Craft	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: "Missing Fish" - "feeder" fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31838	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: "Missing Fish" - "feeder" fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31839	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31840	From: James	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: My tiger barb
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31841	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: "Missing Fish" - "feeder" fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31842	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31843	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31844	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: 125G Tang Tank Project
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31845	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31846	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31847	From: hank voss	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31849	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31850	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31851	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31852	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31853	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31854	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31855	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31856	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31858	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31859	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31860	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31861	From: greychildren	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31862	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31863	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy /Joanna
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31864	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31865	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31866	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31867	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31868	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31869	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy /Joanna
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31870	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31871	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31872	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31873	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31874	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31875	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31876	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31877	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31878	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31879	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31880	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31881	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31882	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31883	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31884	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31885	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31886	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31887	From: hank voss	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31888	From: N Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Angel Eggs Hatching
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31889	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31890	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Eggs Hatching
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31891	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Eggs Hatching
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31892	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substrates - now Chillers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31893	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31894	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31895	From: N Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31896	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31897	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31898	From: Noura Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31899	From: N Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Betta Bachelor Nesting!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31900	From: N Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Eggs Hatching
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31901	From: greychildren	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31902	From: greychildren	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31903	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31904	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31905	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substrates - now Chillers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31906	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31908	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31909	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Bachelor Nesting!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31913	From: Alina	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: My snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31914	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31915	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: My snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31916	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31917	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31918	From: greychildren	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31919	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31920	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31921	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: tank temp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31922	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31923	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31924	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31925	From: bill1433	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby---Ya did It Wrong!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31926	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31927	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31928	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31929	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31930	From: Alison	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Good decorative rocks and gravel....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31931	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31932	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31933	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31934	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31935	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: tank temp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31936	From: harry perry	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction /no cure
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31937	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31938	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31939	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: my fish mess
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31940	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Good decorative rocks and gravel....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31941	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31942	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31943	From: pam andress	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31944	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31945	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31946	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31947	From: Judith Downing	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31948	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: My snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31949	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31950	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31951	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Bachelor Nesting!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31952	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31953	From: Alison	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Good decorative rocks and gravel....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31954	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31955	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: tank temp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31956	From: vitaebat	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31957	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31958	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31960	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31961	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31962	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31963	From: harry perry	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: TOO much filtration?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31964	From: William	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: plants for shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31965	From: vitaebat	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31966	From: rcdtrc	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: piranhas, fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31967	From: harry perry	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: piranhas, fry/Try This
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31968	From: Carolyn Morse	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: TOO much filtration?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31969	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31970	From: N Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31971	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31972	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31973	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31974	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31975	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31976	From: hank voss	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31977	From: greychildren	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31978	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: different Rainbows Shoaling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31979	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31980	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31982	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31985	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31986	From: Alina	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: My snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31987	From: Alina	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Florida cold!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31988	From: friendtoallfish	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Kribensis chiclids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31989	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31990	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: My snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31991	From: greychildren	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31992	From: greychildren	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Florida cold!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31993	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31994	From: greychildren	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31995	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31996	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31997	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Upgrading lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31998	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: plants for shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31999	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Kribensis chiclids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32000	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32002	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32004	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32005	From: Jennie	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32006	From: Jennie	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32007	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32008	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32009	From: pam andress	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32010	From: Carolyn Morse	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32011	From: Jennie	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32012	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32013	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: different Rainbows Shoaling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32014	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32015	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: My snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32016	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32018	From: Jennifer Walker	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32019	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32021	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32022	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32023	From: pam andress	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32024	From: pam andress	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32026	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32027	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32028	From: pam andress	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32029	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32031	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Dying Apple Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32032	From: Mike Huey	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32033	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32034	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32036	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32037	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32038	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32039	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32040	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32041	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: plants for shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32042	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: piranhas, fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32043	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32044	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32045	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Kribensis chiclids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32046	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32047	From: pam andress	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Dying Apple Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32048	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32049	From: Carolyn Morse	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32050	From: Peaches	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32051	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32052	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32053	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32054	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32055	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32056	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32057	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32059	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32060	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32061	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32062	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32063	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32064	From: hank voss	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32065	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32066	From: friendtoallfish	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Kribensis chiclids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32067	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32068	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32069	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32070	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32071	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32072	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32073	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32075	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32077	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32078	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Stock Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32079	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32080	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32081	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32082	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32083	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32084	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32085	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32086	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32087	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32088	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32089	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32090	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Stock Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32091	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32093	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32095	From: Alina	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Bruce?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32096	From: pam andress	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32097	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32098	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32099	From: bill1433	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Stock Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32100	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32101	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32102	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32103	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy almost gone, doing better
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32104	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32105	From: hank voss	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32106	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32107	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32108	From: Peaches	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Sorry for the Typos in my post yesterday and today:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32109	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32110	From: Margie	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Hi all from KY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32111	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32112	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hi all from KY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32113	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32114	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32115	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32116	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32117	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32118	From: Alina	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Platy is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32119	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32120	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32121	From: Alina	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32122	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32123	From: Amy Howell	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Reply to Bruce?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32124	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32125	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: My Mystery Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32126	From: Jennie	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32127	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Kribensis chiclids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32128	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32129	From: Alina	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32130	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32131	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32132	From: Lisa	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Sad zebra danio loss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32133	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: tank size upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32134	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32135	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32137	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32138	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32139	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: ick problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32140	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32141	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Stock Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32142	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Stock Level
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32143	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32144	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: ick problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32145	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: ick problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32146	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: advice please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32147	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32148	From: Lisa	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Tank size soon to be upgraded. Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32149	From: hank voss	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32150	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My Mystery Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32151	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32152	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size soon to be upgraded. Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: tank size upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32154	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: ick problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32155	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: advice please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32156	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: ick problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32158	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32159	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size soon to be upgraded. Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32160	From: Tony Davis	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Slight tank upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32161	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Slight tank upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32162	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32163	From: Tony Davis	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Slight tank upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32164	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: My Mystery Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32165	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the Typos in my post yesterday and today:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32166	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32167	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32168	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32169	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32170	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32171	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32172	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32173	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32174	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32175	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32177	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: ick problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32178	From: pam andress	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32179	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: advice please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32180	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32181	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: advice please?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32182	From: Cindy Gilbert	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32183	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32184	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: My Mystery Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32185	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: My Mystery Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32186	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32187	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32188	From: Chris	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32189	From: Chris	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: ammonia cycling and plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32190	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32191	From: Margie	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hi all from KY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32192	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32193	From: bill1433	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32194	From: bill1433	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: About Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32195	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32196	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32197	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32198	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32199	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: ammonia cycling and plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32200	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Sad zebra danio loss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32201	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32202	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32203	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hi all from KY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32204	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32205	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: ammonia cycling and plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32206	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32207	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32208	From: bill1433	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32209	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32210	From: Lisa	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Sad zebra danio loss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32211	From: Lisa	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32212	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32213	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32214	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32215	From: Lisa	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32216	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32217	From: Margie	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Thanks, Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32218	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32219	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32220	From: bill1433	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32221	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: bio or nano?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32222	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32223	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32224	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32225	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32226	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32227	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32228	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32229	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32230	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32231	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32232	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32233	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32234	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32235	From: bill1433	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32236	From: bill1433	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32237	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32238	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32239	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32241	From: bill1433	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: About Cichlids? To Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32242	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Need Convict Cichlid Info!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32243	From: bruce cohen	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: bio or nano?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32244	From: joe t	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information THIS IS ACTUALLY GETTING AMUSING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32245	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32246	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32247	From: joe t	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Nutrafin's "Cycle"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32248	From: jett07002	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32249	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Need Convict Cichlid Info!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32250	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32251	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Need Convict Cichlid Info!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32252	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information THIS IS ACTUALLY GETTING AMUSING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32253	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32255	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information THIS IS ACTUALLY GETTING AMUSING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32256	From: Atif Mehmood	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32257	From: Lisa	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32258	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information THIS IS NOT GETTING AMUSING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32259	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32260	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Need Convict Cichlid Info!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32262	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32263	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32264	From: Jennifer Walker	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32265	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32266	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32267	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32268	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32269	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32270	From: henry puryear	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: A voice of protest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: A voice of protest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32272	From: bill1433	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32273	From: pam andress	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: A voice of protest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32274	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: 125G Tang Tank Project
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32276	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: new salt water tank! advice please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32277	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32278	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32279	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32280	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Convict Cichlid is home!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32281	From: L. Gove	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32282	From: Mark Bellinger	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Zeolite crystals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32283	From: Mark Bellinger	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Platy school
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32284	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Convict Cichlid is home!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Convict Cichlid is home!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32287	From: Mark Bellinger	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Cory Cats and Company
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32288	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite crystals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite crystals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32291	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Bruce is still just hanging out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bruce is still just hanging out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: FW: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32294	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cory Cats and Company
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32295	From: harry perry	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bruce /Send him home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32296	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bruce /Send him home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32297	From: harry perry	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: salt water tank!/Bio Spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: salt water tank!/Bio Spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32299	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Platy school
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32300	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cory Cats and Company
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32301	From: GrammyPat	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: pvc pipe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32302	From: harry perry	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: pvc pipe/Caves
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32303	From: GrammyPat	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cory Cats and Company
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32304	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Sherlock the Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32305	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: pvc pipe/Caves
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32306	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Help me choose - vote on name!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32307	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Cichlid Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32308	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Help me choose - vote on name!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32309	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: salt water tank!/Bio Spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32310	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: pvc pipe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Help me choose - vote on name!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32312	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Help me choose - vote on name!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32313	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32314	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32315	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Help me choose - vote on name!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32316	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: new cichlid!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32317	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: new cichlid!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32318	From: skyak52	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32319	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32320	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: New to the group :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32321	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: FW: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32322	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32323	From: danf2346	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Introduce myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32324	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32325	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Introduce myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32326	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32327	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32328	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: FW: [AquaticLife] Bruce /Send him home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32330	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32331	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32332	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32333	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32334	From: pam andress	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bruce /Send him home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32335	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32336	From: grammy1086	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32337	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Dang Bill... too bad you don't live in Sacramento
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32339	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32341	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32342	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32343	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32344	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32345	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32346	From: User &	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32347	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32348	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32349	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32350	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32351	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bruce /Send him home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32352	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32353	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32354	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32355	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32357	From: grammy1086	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32359	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32360	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32361	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Help me choose - vote on name!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32362	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32363	From: bill1433	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32364	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Frusterated :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32366	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Frusterated :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32367	From: grammy1086	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32368	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32369	From: Saps Gal	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: new salt water tank! advice please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: new salt water tank! advice please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32371	From: cherrystix81	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: A voice of protest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32372	From: danf2346	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Introduce myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32373	From: Saps Gal	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: new salt water tank! advice please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32374	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: new salt water tank! advice please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32375	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Frusterated :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32376	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32377	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Introduce myself
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32378	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32379	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32380	From: bill1433	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32381	From: Alina	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32382	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32384	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32385	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Angel Fry-update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32386	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32387	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32388	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fry-update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32389	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32390	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32391	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32392	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fry-update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32393	From: bill1433	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32395	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32396	From: bill1433	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Yo Len?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32397	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Yo Len?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32399	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32400	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32401	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32402	From: bill1433	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Yo Len?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32403	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32404	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32405	From: bill1433	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32406	From: grammy1086	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32407	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32408	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32409	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32411	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32412	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Tubifex worms (dried) question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32413	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32414	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32415	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32416	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Tubifex worms (dried) question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32417	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32418	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms (dried) question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32420	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32421	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32422	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32423	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32424	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32425	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32426	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Dwarf frogs and dead fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32427	From: Chris	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms (dried) question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32428	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32429	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32430	From: Chris	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32431	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32432	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: When to treat Ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32433	From: Lisa	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32434	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32435	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32436	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32437	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32438	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32439	From: Lisa	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32440	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32441	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32442	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32443	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32445	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32447	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32449	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32450	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32451	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf frogs and dead fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32452	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf frogs and dead fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32453	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32454	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Blood Worms, was: and a question about my male crown-tail beta.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32455	From: Lisa	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32456	From: Lisa	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32457	From: Tony Davis	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Filter media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Blood Worms, was: and a question about my male crown-tail beta.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32460	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32461	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: When to treat Ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32462	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32463	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Best Temp for Tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Best Temp for Tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32465	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32466	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32467	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Best Temp for Tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32468	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32469	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife] Bruce /Send him home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32470	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32471	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32472	From: Noura Taweel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fry-update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32473	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' h
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32474	From: bill1433	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: New Fish----New Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32475	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Best Temp for Tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32476	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: New Fish----New Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32477	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32478	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32479	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Better Late than Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32480	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32481	From: bill1433	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: New Fish----New Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32482	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32483	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32484	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32485	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Photos and description of ballast I need to replace
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32486	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Photos and description of ballast I need to replace
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32487	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32488	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32489	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32490	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fry-update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32491	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32492	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32493	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32494	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32495	From: Chris	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32496	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32497	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32498	From: Lisa	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32499	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32500	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32501	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32502	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32503	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32504	From: Lisa	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32505	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32506	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32507	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32508	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32509	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32512	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32513	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32514	From: joe t	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Photos and description of ballast I need to replace
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32515	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32516	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32517	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: The Under Gravel Filter Question??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32518	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32520	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32521	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32522	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32523	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town / Lenny's questi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32524	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32525	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32527	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fry-update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32528	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32529	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32530	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32531	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: fluidized filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32532	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: fluidized filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32533	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32535	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Itchy Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32536	From: Chris	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Added an additional filter to my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32537	From: Chris	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32538	From: jett07002	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32539	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Added an additional filter to my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32540	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Itchy Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32542	From: Bobby York	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Reverse Flow Undergravel Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32543	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32544	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32545	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32546	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32547	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32548	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32549	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32550	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32551	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32552	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32553	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32554	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Modify a Tank Stand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32555	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32556	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32557	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Filter wEmpty Media Basket
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32558	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32561	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter wEmpty Media Basket
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32562	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32563	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32564	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32565	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32566	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32567	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32568	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32569	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32570	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32571	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32572	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32575	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32576	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32577	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Claudia, was: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32578	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32579	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fish clubs etc.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32580	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32581	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Update On Bruce
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32582	From: bill1433	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Baseline-----------Day 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32584	From: Alina	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32585	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32586	From: bill1433	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32587	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32588	From: Chris	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32589	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32590	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32591	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32592	From: bill1433	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: I may have leave this group!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32593	From: bill1433	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: I may have leave this group!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32596	From: bill1433	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: I may have leave this group!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: I may have leave this group!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32598	From: Alina	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32599	From: Alina	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: PWC in a cycling tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32600	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: PWC in a cycling tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32602	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town / Lenny's questi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32603	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Filter wEmpty Media Basket
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32604	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: PWC in a cycling tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32605	From: Chris	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: wtf!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32606	From: Chris	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32607	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town / Lenny's questi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32608	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: PWC in a cycling tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32609	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32610	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Prefect Water?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32611	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Prefect Water?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32612	From: Chris	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32613	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Claudia, was: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32614	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32615	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32616	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32617	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32618	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32619	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32620	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32621	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32622	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32623	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32624	From: Chris	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32625	From: mchaneyjm	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32626	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32627	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32628	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32629	From: sexylady	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32630	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32631	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32633	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32634	From: danf2346	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: african dwarf frogs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32635	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32636	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: african dwarf frogs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32637	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32638	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32639	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32640	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32641	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Bill's Fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32642	From: harry perry	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32643	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32644	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32645	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32646	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32647	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32648	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32650	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32651	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32652	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32653	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32654	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32655	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32657	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32658	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32659	From: harry perry	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: U.G.F./Seems to me........
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32660	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32662	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32663	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32664	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32665	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32666	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32667	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32668	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32669	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32670	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32671	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32672	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32673	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32674	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32675	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32676	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: african dwarf frogs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32677	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32678	From: Lisa	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Dwarf cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32679	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32680	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Fish are hard to photograph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32681	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32682	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32683	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32684	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Fish are hard to photograph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32686	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32687	From: harry perry	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32688	From: harry perry	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32689	From: harry perry	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32690	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32691	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32692	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32693	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32694	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32695	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32696	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32697	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32698	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32699	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32700	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32702	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32703	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32704	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: milky, greenish water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32705	From: cherrystix81	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Hey......I got my danios
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: milky, greenish water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32709	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: milky, greenish water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32710	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: milky, greenish water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32711	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32712	From: Chris	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32713	From: Alina	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32714	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32715	From: Anna Boyd	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32716	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32717	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32718	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Hey......I got my danios
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32719	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32720	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32722	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32723	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32724	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32725	From: grammy1086	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Sabea anenome discoloration
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32726	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32727	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32728	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32729	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32730	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32731	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32732	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32733	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32734	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32735	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Fish are hard to photograph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32736	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32737	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32738	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32739	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32740	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32741	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Hey......I got my danios
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32742	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32743	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32744	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32745	From: Chris	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32746	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32747	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32748	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32749	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32750	From: harry perry	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber/balance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32751	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32752	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32753	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32754	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32755	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: For Ray Wetzel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32756	From: Alina	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32758	From: Alina	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Swordtails are jumpers???!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32759	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32760	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32761	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32762	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32763	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Swordtails are jumpers???!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32764	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32765	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32766	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32767	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32768	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: O.T.: Ham Radio, was - For Ray Wetzel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32769	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32770	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32771	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32772	From: Alina	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32773	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32774	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32775	From: Alina	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Swordtails are jumpers???!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32776	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32777	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32778	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32779	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32780	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32781	From: bill1433	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Acrylic Tanks and Yahoo Mail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32782	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32783	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32784	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32785	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32786	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32787	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32788	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32789	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Acrylic Tanks and Yahoo Mail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32790	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32792	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32793	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32794	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32795	From: bill1433	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Acrylic Tanks and Yahoo Mail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: SeaChem pH Alert Compared To Mardel Live pH monitor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32797	From: jett07002	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32798	From: jett07002	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Taking fish home from the LFS, or where ever
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32799	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32800	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32801	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32802	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32803	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32804	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32805	From: Chris	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Feeders - Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32806	From: Chris	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32807	From: Alina	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Medications question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32808	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32809	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32810	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Medications question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32811	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32812	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32813	From: Alina	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Medications question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32814	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32815	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32816	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32817	From: bill1433	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: What Is It? Where Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It? Where Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32819	From: bill1433	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It? Where Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It? Where Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32821	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It? Where Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32822	From: pam andress	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32823	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32824	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32825	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32828	From: Philip	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32829	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32830	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32831	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32832	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32833	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple questions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32834	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32835	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32836	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32837	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32838	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple questio
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32839	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32840	From: Lisa	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32841	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple questio
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32842	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32843	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32844	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32845	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32846	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32847	From: bill1433	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32849	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple questio
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32850	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32851	From: bill1433	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32853	From: Lisa	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32854	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32855	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32856	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32858	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32859	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32860	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32861	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32862	From: Lisa	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32863	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32864	From: John	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: FREE Malaysian Trumpet Snails (So. CA)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32865	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32866	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32867	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32868	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32869	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32870	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32871	From: lizkakot	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32872	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32873	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32874	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32875	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32876	From: danf2346	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Thanks all:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32879	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32880	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32881	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32882	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32883	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32884	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Thanks, and plant questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32885	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32886	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32887	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32888	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32889	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32890	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32891	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32892	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32893	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32894	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32895	From: Andrew	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Fresh Water Vs. Salt Water????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32896	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh Water Vs. Salt Water????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32897	From: pam andress	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32899	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32900	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: was- Evil Cichlids Now- Bucket Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32901	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32902	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32903	From: bruce cohen	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32904	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32905	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32906	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32907	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32908	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32909	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32910	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32911	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32913	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32914	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32915	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32916	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32917	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32918	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32919	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32920	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32921	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32922	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32923	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Lenny-----in case you missed my other post.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32925	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny-----in case you missed my other post.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32927	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32928	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32929	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32930	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32931	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks all:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32932	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32933	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32934	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32935	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32936	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32937	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32938	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Severum's and plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32939	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Severum's and plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32940	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Severum's and plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32941	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32942	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32943	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: The main reason why I DO NOT LIKE Tetra (the Company) FW: Monthly Aq
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32944	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32945	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: betta behavior question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32946	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: betta behavior question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32947	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: betta behavior question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32948	From: silvali_2000	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: What is wrong with my snail???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32949	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my snail???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32950	From: Mark Hough	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: The main reason why I DO NOT LIKE Tetra (the Company) FW: Monthl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32951	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32952	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32953	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Vacation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32954	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32955	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Vacation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32957	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32958	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32959	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32960	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32961	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32962	From: Alina	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: How to treat a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32963	From: sunfish3714	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Zebrafish Breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32964	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Vacation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Vacation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32966	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32967	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32968	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32969	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32970	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32971	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32972	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Vacation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32973	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish Breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32974	From: Alina	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32975	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32976	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32977	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32978	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: What's wrong with this fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32979	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: sometimes I hate ordering stuff off the internet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32980	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: sometimes I hate ordering stuff off the internet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32982	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: sometimes I hate ordering stuff off the internet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32983	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: sometimes I hate ordering stuff off the internet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32984	From: Lisa	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: 22gal update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32985	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32986	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: 22gal update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32987	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32988	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Question about phosphate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32989	From: Alina	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32990	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32991	From: Chris	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32992	From: Andreas	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32993	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32994	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32995	From: Chris	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32998	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: 22gal update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32999	From: Alina	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33000	From: Alina	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33002	From: bill1433	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33003	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33004	From: bill1433	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33006	From: Wendie	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33007	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33008	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33009	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33010	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33011	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33012	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33013	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33014	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33015	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about phosphate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33016	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about phosphate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33017	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33018	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Question about "browning patches" on fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33019	From: Rebecca	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33020	From: Rebecca	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33021	From: Scott Jackson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33022	From: Rebecca	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Medications question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33023	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33024	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33026	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33027	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33028	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about phosphate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33029	From: Philip	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33030	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33031	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33032	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about "browning patches" on fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33033	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33034	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about "browning patches" on fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33035	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33036	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33037	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33038	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Filtration... and why we need to keep them clean
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33039	From: Scott Jackson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33040	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33041	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33042	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33043	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33044	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Jumping Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Jumping Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33046	From: bill1433	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33047	From: bill1433	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33048	From: bill1433	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33049	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33050	From: cheryl smith	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33051	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about phosphate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: The POLLS page - http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/poll
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33053	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Question about "browning patches" on fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33054	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question about "
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33055	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33056	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33057	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: OT: Air Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33058	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Question about "browning patches" on fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33059	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Question about phosphate levels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33060	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33061	From: Chris	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: After one week all of my fish in the q tank.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33062	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: After one week all of my fish in the q tank.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33063	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: After one week all of my fish in the q tank.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33064	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33065	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Air Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33066	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33067	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: What Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33068	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33069	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Air Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33070	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33071	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Question about "browning patches" on fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33072	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33073	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33074	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33075	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33077	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: A Yahoo Mail Warning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33078	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33080	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33081	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33082	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33083	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Question about "browning patches" on fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33084	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33085	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33086	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33087	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33088	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33089	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Jumping Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33090	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33092	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33093	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33094	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Jumping Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33095	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33096	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question abo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33097	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question abo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33098	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question abo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33099	From: Alina	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Ick emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33100	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33101	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: REVIEW: Sudamerickanische Zwergcichliden (South American Dwarf Cichl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33102	From: Alina	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33103	From: Alina	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33104	From: Chris	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33105	From: greychildren	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Clown loaches eating my plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33106	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33107	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33108	From: greychildren	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33109	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33110	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33111	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33112	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33113	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33114	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33115	From: Scott Jackson	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Decapsulated Brine Shrmp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33116	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: How Africa's honeybees bees are saving fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33117	From: Lisa	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33118	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33119	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Decapsulated Brine Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33120	From: Lisa	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33122	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33123	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33124	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: was- It's here! now Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33125	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: was- It's here! now Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33126	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: was- It's here! now Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33127	From: Lisa	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33128	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: was- It's here! now Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33129	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: was- It's here! now Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33130	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: How Africa's honeybees bees are saving fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33131	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33132	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Mail?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33133	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Mail?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33134	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33135	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33136	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33137	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33138	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33139	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33140	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33141	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33142	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Autopsy of the fish with the spots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33143	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: autopsy of my fish with the spots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33144	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33145	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33148	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33149	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33150	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33151	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33152	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: autopsy of my fish with the spots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33154	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33155	From: Chris	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: going out of town for 2 nights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33156	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33157	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: autopsy of my fish with the spots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33158	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33159	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33160	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33161	From: Walden Nida	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Decapsulated Brine Shrmp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33162	From: Suzi	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33163	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33164	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33165	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33166	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33167	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Decapsulated Brine Shrmp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33168	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Decapsulated Brine Shrmp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33169	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33170	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33171	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33172	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33173	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33174	From: vishwanath preetham	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: brush algae infestation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33175	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33176	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33177	From: roshan corda	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: brush algae infestation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33178	From: sunfish3714	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: brush algae infestation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33179	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33180	From: jett07002	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33181	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33182	From: bill1433	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Omega One Freshwater Flakes Fish Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33183	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33184	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: going out of town for 2 nights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33185	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33186	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33187	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33188	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33189	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33190	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33191	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33192	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33193	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33194	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: brush algae infestation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33195	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33196	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33197	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33198	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33199	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33200	From: Mark Hough	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33201	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33202	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33203	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33204	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33205	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33206	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33208	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33209	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33210	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33213	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33214	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33215	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33216	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local P
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33217	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33218	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33219	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Feeding Peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33220	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33221	From: Mark Hough	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33222	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33223	From: bill1433	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Petsmart?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33224	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Anyone in Northern VA area with wingless fruit flies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33225	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33226	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33227	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33228	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone in Northern VA area with wingless fruit flies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33229	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33230	From: Mark Hough	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local P
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33231	From: bill1433	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33232	From: Lisa	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Getting there. Slowly.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33233	From: Lisa	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33234	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33235	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local P
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33237	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33238	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local P
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33239	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Cycling tank (again? ugh)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33240	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33241	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33242	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33243	From: pam andress	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local P
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33244	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. ma...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33245	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33246	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33247	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33248	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33249	From: mike	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33250	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33251	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33252	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: REVIEW: The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33253	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33254	From: Lisa	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33255	From: Rebecca	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Horsehair worms in ghost shrimp!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33256	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33257	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Horsehair worms in ghost shrimp!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33259	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. ma...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33260	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. ma...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33261	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33262	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33263	From: bill1433	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33264	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33265	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33266	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33267	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Naturalized Fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33268	From: Jenn	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Peas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33269	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. ma...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33270	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Naturalized Fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33271	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Naturalized Fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33272	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33273	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33274	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: euthanize help:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33275	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: euthanize, never mind:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33276	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: starting a tank:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33277	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33278	From: danf2346	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33279	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33280	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: starting a tank:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33281	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33282	From: caroline	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: green tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33283	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: green tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33284	From: harry perry	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Algae/another option
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33285	From: caroline	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize help:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33286	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33287	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33288	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: green tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33291	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33292	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33293	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: green tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33294	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33295	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33296	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33297	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33298	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33299	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: p.s.:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33300	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: thanks lenny:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33301	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33302	From: mike	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33303	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33304	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33307	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: starting a tank:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33308	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33309	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33310	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Magnum 350
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33311	From: mike	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33312	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33313	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33315	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: (SALTWATER TANK) saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33316	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33317	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33318	From: bill1433	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33319	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33320	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33321	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33322	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33323	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33324	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33325	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33326	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33327	From: bill1433	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33328	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33330	From: pam andress	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33331	From: pam andress	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33332	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33333	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33334	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33335	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33336	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: starting a tank:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33337	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: starting a tank:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33339	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33340	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33341	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: starting a tank:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33342	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33343	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: starting a tank:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33344	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33345	From: James Romero	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33346	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33347	From: bill1433	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: With All Due Respect--UG Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33348	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33349	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33350	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33351	From: pam andress	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33353	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33354	From: jett07002	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33355	From: pam andress	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33356	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33357	From: Lisa	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33358	From: Jerry	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Fungus problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33359	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33360	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33362	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33363	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33365	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33366	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33367	From: Lisa	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33368	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33369	From: Chris	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33370	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33371	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33372	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33373	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33374	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33375	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33376	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33377	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33378	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33379	From: Jerry	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33380	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33381	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33382	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33384	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33385	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Fish Keeping Quiz - Try out your skills and knowledge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33386	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33387	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33388	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33389	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33390	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33391	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33392	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33393	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33395	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33396	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33397	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33399	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33400	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33401	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33402	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33403	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33404	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: O.T.: Bob Hope -- was, Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] sta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33405	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33406	From: harry perry	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants/Lisa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33407	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants/Lisa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33408	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Shipping in Tupperware Container?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33409	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping in Tupperware Container?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33411	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping in Tupperware Container?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33412	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: another day, another adventure.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33413	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping in Tupperware Container?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33414	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33415	From: danf2346	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: online ordering
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33416	From: pam andress	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: online ordering
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33417	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33418	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33419	From: Philip	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Multiple father guppies.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33420	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33421	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33423	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33424	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33425	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33426	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33427	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33428	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33429	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33430	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33431	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33432	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: another day, another adventure.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33434	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants/Lisa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33435	From: Lisa	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33436	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33437	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Multiple father guppies.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33438	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Multiple father guppies.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33439	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: another day, another adventure.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33440	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33441	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33442	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33443	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33444	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33445	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33447	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33448	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33449	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33450	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33451	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33452	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33453	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33454	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33455	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33456	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33457	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33459	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33460	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33461	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33462	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33463	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33465	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33466	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33467	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33468	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33469	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33470	From: Alina	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Ich and heat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33471	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: so disappointed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33472	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33473	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33474	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33475	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33476	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: so disappointed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33477	From: Alina	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33478	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33479	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: so disappointed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33480	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33481	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33482	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33483	From: bill1433	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33484	From: hank voss	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33485	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33486	From: bill1433	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33487	From: bill1433	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33488	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: so disappointed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33489	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33490	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: ugh, light fixture from DFS no longer working
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33491	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33492	From: Lisa	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Freshwater chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33493	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: New member - New Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33494	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33495	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33496	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33497	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33498	From: hank voss	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33499	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33500	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33501	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33502	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33503	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33504	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33505	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33506	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33507	From: Lisa	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Lighting. WAS Re: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33508	From: Lisa	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33509	From: Lisa	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33510	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33512	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater chemistry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33513	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Any issues with injecting CO2 into all tanks thru a single air pump?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33514	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constricti
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33515	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Any issues with injecting CO2 into all tanks thru a single air p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33516	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33517	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33518	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33519	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33520	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: ongoing betta saga:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33521	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: ongoing betta saga:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33522	From: hank voss	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33523	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: betta saga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33524	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: betta saga:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33525	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: betta saga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: betta saga:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33527	From: Lisa	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Is natural light enough?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33528	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Is natural light enough?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33529	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Cycling Q.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33530	From: Lisa	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Is natural light enough?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33531	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Q.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33532	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Q.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33533	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Is natural light enough?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33534	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33535	From: hank voss	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33536	From: bill1433	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33537	From: jett07002	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33538	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33539	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: New Member - could use some help with ich and a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33540	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33541	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33542	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33543	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: New tank (125 gallon)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33544	From: dtrc rc	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: New tank (125 gallon)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33545	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: New Member - could use some help with ich and a new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33548	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: New tank (125 gallon)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33549	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: New tank (125 gallon)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33550	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33551	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: New tank (125 gallon)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33552	From: bill1433	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: The Truth About Ph Adjustments by a Beginner for Beginner’s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33553	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33554	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33555	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Is natural light enough?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33556	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33557	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: New tank (125 gallon)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33558	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33559	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Fish Lovers TV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33560	From: hank voss	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33561	From: hank voss	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33562	From: Alina	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33563	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Truth About Ph Adjustments by a Beginner for B
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33564	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33565	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33566	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33567	From: hank voss	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33568	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33569	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33570	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Lovers TV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33571	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33572	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Questions about additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33573	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: The Truth About pH Adjustments by a Beginner for Beginner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33574	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33575	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Lovers TV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33576	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33577	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33578	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33579	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33580	From: Walden Nida	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33581	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33582	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33583	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33584	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Lovers TV
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33585	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33586	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33587	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33588	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33589	From: Lisa	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Tank cycle question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33590	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: fish don't like the heat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33591	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33592	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33593	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: fish don't like the heat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33594	From: Lisa	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33596	From: Walden Nida	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33598	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33599	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33600	From: Lisa	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question - Log resaults
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33601	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33602	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question - Log resaults
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33603	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33604	From: bill1433	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33605	From: Alina	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33606	From: Gregg	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2795
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33607	From: bill1433	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: One And Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33608	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33609	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33610	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33611	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33612	From: bill1433	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2795
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33613	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Thoughts on the Fluvul Three and 4 Plus Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33614	From: bill1433	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33615	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33616	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33617	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33618	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33619	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33621	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33622	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33623	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33624	From: Walden Nida	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33625	From: Andreas	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33626	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33627	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33628	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33629	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33630	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33631	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33632	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33633	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33634	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33636	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: FW: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33637	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33638	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33639	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33640	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33641	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33642	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33643	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33644	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33645	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33646	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33647	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33648	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33649	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Eheim pro 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33650	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33651	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim pro 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33652	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33653	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim pro 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33654	From: Lisa	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33655	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33656	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33657	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33658	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33659	From: onelvlady	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33660	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33662	From: bill1433	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33663	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33664	From: bill1433	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33665	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Wa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33666	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Wa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33667	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33668	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33669	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33670	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33671	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33672	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33673	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33674	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33675	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Fw: [moderatorcentral] Duplicate Message Bug
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33676	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33677	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33678	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Setting up the 125 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33679	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33681	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33682	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33683	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Wa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33684	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33686	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33687	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: [moderatorcentral] Duplicate Message Bug
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33688	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33689	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33690	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33691	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33692	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33693	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33694	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33695	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33696	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33697	From: KUNAL	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: how can breed crown tail beeta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33698	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33702	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33703	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33706	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33707	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33708	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33709	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33710	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33711	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33712	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33713	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33714	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33715	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33716	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33717	From: jett07002	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33718	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33719	From: bill1433	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33720	From: bill1433	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33721	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33723	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Fil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33725	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33726	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33727	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33728	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33729	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33730	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33731	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Fil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33732	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33733	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Lifepans (was: Newbie form Atlanta ga)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33734	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33735	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33737	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33738	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33739	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33740	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33741	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33742	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33743	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33744	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33745	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33747	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33748	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33749	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33750	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33751	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33752	From: Alina	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Happy fish boilin' at Alina's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33753	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33754	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33755	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33756	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33757	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33758	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Fil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33759	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33760	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33761	From: Lisa	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: German blue rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33762	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33763	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: German blue rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33764	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33765	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33766	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 injectors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33767	From: Lisa	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: German blue rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33768	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33769	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: German blue rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33770	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33771	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 injectors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33772	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33773	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 injectors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33774	From: Suzi	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Needing advice..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33775	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 injectors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33776	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Aquatic Compost Heap. Its bee said, but to far back to find
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33777	From: bill1433	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Fil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33778	From: bill1433	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33779	From: bill1433	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: German blue rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33780	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Needing advice..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33781	From: clntstime	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33782	From: Suzi	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Needing advice..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33783	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33784	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33785	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33786	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Angelfish fry didn't free-swim yet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33787	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33788	From: bill1433	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33789	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33790	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33791	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33792	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33793	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33794	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33795	From: johndumas	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: How do you determine Heater wattage?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: How do you determine Heater wattage?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33797	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33798	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33799	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33800	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33801	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: How do you determine Heater wattage?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33802	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33803	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33804	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Angelfish fry didn't free-swim yet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33805	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33806	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Black Moor wont grow!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33807	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: heater woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33808	From: bill1433	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33809	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33810	From: bill1433	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33811	From: sandramonjes	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33812	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33813	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33814	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Black Moor wont grow!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33816	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33817	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: heater woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33819	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33821	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33822	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33823	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: sharks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33824	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33825	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33826	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: heater woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33827	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: How do you determine Heater wattage?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33829	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33830	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33831	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33832	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33833	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: How do you determine Heater wattage?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33834	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33835	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33836	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33837	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33838	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33839	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33840	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33841	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportunity
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33842	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33843	From: Lisa	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Attention Lenny.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33844	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33845	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportunity
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33846	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33847	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33848	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33849	From: Lisa	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Sexing Mollies and platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33850	From: Lisa	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Feature wall aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33851	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportunity
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33852	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportun...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33853	From: jett07002	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33854	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Attention Lenny.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33855	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33856	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33857	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Feature wall aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33858	From: Allison Kulp	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33859	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Feature wall aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33860	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33861	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33862	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Crushed coral
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33863	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re-Post: Angelfish fry didn't free-swim yet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33865	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Sexing Mollies and platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33866	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Feature wall aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33867	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportun...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33868	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33869	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33870	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: new month...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33871	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: heater woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33872	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33873	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33874	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33875	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33876	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33877	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33879	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33880	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33881	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33882	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33883	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33884	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33885	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33886	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33887	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: new month...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33888	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33889	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33890	From: zoarvalley1946	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33891	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33892	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33894	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33895	From: Alina	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33896	From: Alina	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Guppies in a 10g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33897	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Yet another question or two... New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33898	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33899	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33900	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33901	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Guppies in a 10g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33903	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33904	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33905	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Yet another question or two... New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33906	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: what else do i need for my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33907	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33908	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33909	From: Venus	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Blood Parrot tank mates??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33910	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33913	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33914	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33915	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33916	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33917	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33918	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33919	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33920	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33921	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33922	From: harry perry	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33923	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Yet another question or two... New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33924	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33925	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33926	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 gallo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33927	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33928	From: Lisa	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Shouldn't have gone there...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33929	From: harry perry	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Shouldn't have gone there.../Lisa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33930	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33931	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33932	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33933	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33934	From: pomlady101	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: fish that can live in harmony together?:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33935	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33936	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33937	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: fish that can live in harmony together?:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33938	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33939	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33940	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: fish that can live in harmony together?:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33941	From: bill1433	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33942	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: im my fish ok in her breeder net
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33943	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33944	From: bill1433	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33945	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33946	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33947	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33948	From: pomlady101	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: fish that can live in harmony together?:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33949	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33951	From: Chris	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: why not?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33952	From: Lisa	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: An update and questions about my cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33953	From: jett07002	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: im my fish ok in her breeder net
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33954	From: jett07002	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33955	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: im my fish ok in her breeder net
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33956	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33957	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33958	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: why not?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33960	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: why not?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33961	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33962	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33963	From: Lisa	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Single species tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33964	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: stressed platy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33966	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33967	From: Lisa	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33968	From: Lisa	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33969	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33971	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33972	From: N Taweel	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Fish are dying- can salt be the killer?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33973	From: Chow Kwok Loong (Alan)	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33974	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33975	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33976	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33979	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: An update and questions about my cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33980	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Question for Lenny - Gold Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33981	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33982	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny - Gold Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33983	From: greychildren	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33985	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Lenny - question about my cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33986	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33987	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny - question about my cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33988	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny - Gold Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33989	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny - question about my cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33990	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny - question about my cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33991	From: jett07002	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33992	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33993	From: motherbear20091	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: I new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33994	From: Lisa	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Australian blue yabbies/crawfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Australian blue yabbies/crawfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33997	From: dtrc rc	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Australian blue yabbies/crawfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33998	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33999	From: Alan Chow	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34000	From: Alan Chow	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34001	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: baby molly fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34002	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: update on ich treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34003	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: logistics of cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34004	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Glofish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34005	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34006	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: baby molly fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34007	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: update on ich treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34008	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34009	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34010	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34011	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34012	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: German blue rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34013	From: jett07002	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: im my fish ok in her breeder net
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34014	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34015	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34016	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34017	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34018	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34019	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: update on ich treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: update on ich treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34021	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: update on ich treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34022	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34023	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34024	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34027	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34028	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34029	From: Farscape	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' h
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34030	From: Farscape	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34031	From: Farscape	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone using X-10 controllers to control light pumps, feeders?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34032	From: Scott Jackson	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Australian blue yabbies/crawfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34033	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34034	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34035	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34036	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34037	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34038	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34039	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34040	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Best conditions for growing diatoms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34041	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34042	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34043	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34044	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Best conditions for growing diatoms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34045	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34046	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34047	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34048	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34049	From: Lisa	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Moved my fish while cycleing.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34050	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Moved my fish while cycleing.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34051	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34052	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: predators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34053	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34054	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: UV sterilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34055	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Predators/ Polypterus senegalus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34056	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34057	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Predators/ Polypterus senegalus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34058	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Predators/ Polypterus senegalus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34059	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Predators/ Polypterus senegalus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34060	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: UV sterilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34061	From: motherbear20091	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: about my African cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34062	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34063	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: about my African cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34064	From: motherbear20091	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: about my African cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34065	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34066	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: about my African cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34067	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34068	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34069	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: about my African cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34070	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34071	From: Farscape	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34072	From: Alina	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Ammo spike after high temp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34073	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Zeolite care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34074	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34075	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34076	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34077	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34078	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: UV sterilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34079	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34080	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34081	From: Alina	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34082	From: Alina	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34083	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34084	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34085	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34086	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34087	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34088	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34089	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34090	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34091	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34092	From: harry perry	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34093	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34094	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34095	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34096	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34097	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34098	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34099	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34100	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34101	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34102	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34103	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: eggs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34104	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34105	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34106	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34107	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: UV sterilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34109	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: cichlids and dither fish - more hiding places
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34110	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34111	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34112	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34113	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34114	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34115	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34116	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34117	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34118	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34119	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34120	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34121	From: Nedra	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34122	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34123	From: Alina	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34124	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34125	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34126	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: eggs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34127	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34128	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: eggs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34129	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34130	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34131	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: eggs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34132	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34133	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: eggs?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34134	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34135	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34136	From: Kevin	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: fishes mouth routing off?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34137	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34138	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: fishes mouth routing off?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34139	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Q about quarintine tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34140	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Agressive Goldfish???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34141	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Q about quarintine tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34142	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34143	From: bill1433	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Agressive Goldfish???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34144	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: fishes mouth routing off?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Q about quarintine tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Agressive Goldfish???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34148	From: Crazycat Lady	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: a couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34149	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34150	From: Walden Nida	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Q about quarintine tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34151	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34152	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: a couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34153	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Platy Gestation Period? and an update on my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34154	From: redbackblack	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Why do my goldfish float?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34155	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Agressive Goldfish???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34156	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34158	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Issues with male Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34159	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Q about quarantine tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34160	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Issues with male Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34161	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Gestation Period? and an update on my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34162	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Issues with male Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34163	From: Nedra	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34164	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34165	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Q about quarantine tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34166	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34167	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34168	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34169	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34170	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34171	From: bill1433	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34172	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34173	From: Gregg	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Betta Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34174	From: redbackblack	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34175	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34177	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34178	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34179	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34180	From: bill1433	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34181	From: jjmiltner	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34182	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34183	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34184	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34185	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34186	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34187	From: redbackblack	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34188	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: foam on surface
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34189	From: jett07002	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34190	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Thanks guys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34191	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34192	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34193	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34194	From: sunfish3714	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Tropical Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34195	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34196	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Eheim website and new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34197	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34198	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34199	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim website and new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34200	From: Lisa	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: If they can do it, why can't I?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34201	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34202	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34203	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34204	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34205	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34206	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: foam on surface
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34208	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34209	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34210	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: If they can do it, why can't I?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34213	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34214	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34215	From: Lisa	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: If they can do it, why can't I?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34216	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34217	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34219	From: Jennie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34220	From: Jennie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34221	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34222	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34223	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34224	From: Jennie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34225	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34226	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim website and new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34227	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34228	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34229	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34230	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34231	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Connecting Fish Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34232	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34233	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34234	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34235	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34236	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34237	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: classroom aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34238	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Air Pumps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34239	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34240	From: James	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34241	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34242	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34243	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34244	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34245	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34246	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34247	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34248	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Air Pumps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34249	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34250	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34251	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34252	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34253	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34254	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34255	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34256	From: Daniel Richie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34257	From: Daniel Richie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: classroom aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34259	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34260	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34262	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34263	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34264	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34265	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34267	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34268	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34269	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Air Pumps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34272	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34273	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Air Pumps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34274	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34276	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34277	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34278	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34279	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34280	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34281	From: Jennie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34282	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34283	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34284	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34286	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34287	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34288	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Air Pumps?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34291	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34292	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34293	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34294	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34295	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34296	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34297	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34298	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34299	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34300	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34301	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34303	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34304	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34307	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34308	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34309	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34310	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: santa and craigslist
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: santa and craigslist
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34312	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34313	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Buying a used tank, what to look for....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34314	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34315	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34316	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34317	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34318	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: A little more information on the used tank I am looking at....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34319	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34320	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34321	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Buying a used tank, what to look for....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34322	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34323	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34324	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Buying a used tank, what to look for....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34325	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34326	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34327	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34328	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34329	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34330	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34331	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34332	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!for Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34333	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34334	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34335	From: jett07002	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: window film
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34336	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34337	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34338	From: joe t	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34339	From: jett07002	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34340	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34341	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34342	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!PAM----update!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34343	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34344	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34345	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Update on 125 gallon planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34346	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34347	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!PAM----update!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34348	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!PAM----update!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34349	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34350	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34351	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34353	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34354	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34355	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34356	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34357	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: new tank/update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34358	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34359	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34360	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34361	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34362	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34363	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: new tank/update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34365	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34366	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34368	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34369	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34370	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34371	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34372	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34373	From: alireza sedaghati afkhami	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34374	From: bill1433	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34375	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34376	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34377	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34378	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Best Fish Store in Las Vegas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34379	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34380	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34381	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34382	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: !!Trouble with goldfish !!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34384	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34385	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34386	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34387	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34388	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34389	From: shadow_eyeonx	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34390	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34391	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34392	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34393	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34395	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34396	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34397	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34398	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34399	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34400	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34401	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34402	From: bill1433	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve//
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34403	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Dwarf Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34404	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve//
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34407	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve//
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34408	From: bill1433	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve//
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34409	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve//
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34411	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34412	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34413	From: bill1433	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34414	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34415	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34416	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: OT off beat fish clubs. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loac
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34418	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: OT off beat fish clubs. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34419	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34420	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34421	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34422	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34423	From: bill1433	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: New Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34424	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: On getting this 72 gal. tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34425	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Posted pics' of tank.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34426	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34427	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34428	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34429	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: On getting this 72 gal. tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34430	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance (and now Lenny's invention)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34431	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: On getting this 72 gal. tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34432	From: bill1433	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34435	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34436	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34438	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34439	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: On getting this 72 gal. tank....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34441	From: bill1433	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance----for Lenny?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34442	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance----for Lenny?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34443	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34444	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34445	From: Lisa	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34446	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Just go back from checking out the 72 gal....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34447	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34448	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34449	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34450	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34451	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34452	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34453	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34454	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34455	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34456	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34457	From: Kevin	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: method I use to keep water crystal clear.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34458	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34459	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34460	From: Lisa	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34461	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Just go back from checking out the 72 gal....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34462	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34463	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34464	From: Lisa	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34465	From: Kevin	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: why would my tank water turn black?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34466	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34467	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: method I use to keep water crystal clear.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34468	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34469	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: why would my tank water turn black?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34470	From: K'lyn	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34471	From: bill1433	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34472	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: why would my tank water turn black?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34473	From: Todd	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: HOT protien skimmer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34474	From: Bill Lane	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34475	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Freshwater fish for the asking
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34476	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34477	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34478	From: greychildren	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34479	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34480	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: What is wrong with my platy?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34481	From: greychildren	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34482	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: foam on surface
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34483	From: Jennie	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34484	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34485	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34486	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: foam on surface
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34487	From: Thomas Funk	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34488	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34489	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34490	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34491	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34492	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34493	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34494	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34495	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34496	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34497	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34498	From: greychildren	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34499	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34500	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34501	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34502	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34503	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34504	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34505	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: tap water vs. bottled
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34506	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Testing for Internal Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34507	From: bill1433	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: tap water vs. bottled
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34508	From: shadow_eyeonx	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34509	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: tap water vs. bottled
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: tap water vs. bottled
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34512	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34513	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34514	From: rcdtrc	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Java Moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34515	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: tap water vs. bottled
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34516	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: My corys laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34517	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34518	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: My corys laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34520	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34521	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34522	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34523	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34524	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34525	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34527	From: N Taweel	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Bug question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34528	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Bug question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34529	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34530	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Bug question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34531	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34532	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34533	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34534	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34535	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34536	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34537	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34538	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Bug question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34539	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34540	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34541	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: "Plant Gro" Product
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34542	From: jaypopus	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Cloudy Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34543	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34544	From: jaypopus	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Cloudy Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34545	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: "Plant Gro" Product
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34546	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34548	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34549	From: jaypopus	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34550	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34551	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34552	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34553	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34554	From: N Taweel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Bug Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34555	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34556	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34557	From: N Taweel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Message Reply Note- TO ALL MEMBERS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34558	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34559	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Message Reply Note- TO ALL MEMBERS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34560	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34561	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34562	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34563	From: David Keymel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34564	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: New Member - long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34565	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34566	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: New Member - long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34567	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: forgot to add :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34568	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: where do i find rounder rocks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34569	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: New Member - long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34570	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34571	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: where do i find rounder rocks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34572	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34573	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: forgot to add :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34575	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: forgot to add :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34576	From: David Keymel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34577	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: New Member - long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34578	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: New Member - long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34579	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: chemicals that came with tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34580	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34581	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: forgot to add :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34582	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34584	From: David Keymel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34585	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: forgot to add :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34586	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: chemicals that came with tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34587	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34588	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: where do i find rounder rocks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34589	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: chemicals that came with tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34590	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: where do i find rounder rocks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34591	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: where do i find rounder rocks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34592	From: harry perry	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: rounder rocks/Another option
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34593	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: On the topic of rocks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: rounder rocks/Another option
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34595	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34597	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34598	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: where do i find rounder rocks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34599	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34600	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34601	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34603	From: Lisa	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Plant id please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34604	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34605	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34606	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34607	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34608	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: water tests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34609	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34610	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: results from pet store
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34611	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34612	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34613	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34615	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34616	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34617	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34618	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: gravel cleaner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34619	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34620	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34621	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34622	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34623	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34624	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34625	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34626	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34627	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: retested water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34628	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34629	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: retested water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34630	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Wa$ted!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34631	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: fish fighting or trying to mate?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34633	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: fish fighting or trying to mate?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34634	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: retested water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34635	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34636	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34637	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: re-tested PH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34638	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34639	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34640	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: fish fighting or trying to mate?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34641	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: retested water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34642	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34643	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34644	From: bill1433	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34645	From: nothing_zero	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: fish fighting or trying to mate?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34646	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: 2 Japanese Carp (was: fish fighting or trying to mate?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34647	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34648	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: retested water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34650	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34651	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34652	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34653	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34654	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34655	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34657	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34658	From: bill1433	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?for \\Steve//
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34659	From: harry perry	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?/To Bill from Harry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34660	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34661	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?for \\Steve//
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34662	From: bill1433	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?---Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34663	From: greychildren	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34664	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?---Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34665	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34666	From: bill1433	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?for \\Steve//
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34667	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: sunday test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34668	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34669	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tanks was water tests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34670	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34671	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34672	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34673	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34674	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34675	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34676	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34677	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34678	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tanks was water tests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34679	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Mixing Amphibs with small fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34681	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34682	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34684	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Mixing Amphibs with small fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Mixing Amphibs with small fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34686	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34687	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34688	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34689	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34690	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34691	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34692	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34693	From: greychildren	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34694	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34695	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34696	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34697	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34698	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: OT: unsub from grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34699	From: greychildren	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34701	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34702	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: OT: unsub from grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34703	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Monday morning tests results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34704	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34707	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Monday morning tests results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34708	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34709	From: bill1433	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: I Lost A Link! Help?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34710	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34711	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: my catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34712	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Monday morning tests results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34713	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: I Lost A Link! Help?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: my catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34716	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34717	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Monday morning tests results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34719	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was Monday morning tests results now heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34720	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34721	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34722	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34723	From: bill1433	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: I Lost A Link! Help?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34725	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34726	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: I Lost A Link! Help?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34727	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34728	From: bill1433	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: I Lost A Link! Help?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34729	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34730	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34731	From: pam andress	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34732	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34733	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34734	From: Jim	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Blister?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34735	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34736	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Mixing Amphibs with small fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34737	From: pam andress	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34738	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Mixing Amphibs with small fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34739	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34740	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34741	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34742	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34743	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Mixing Amphibs with small fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34744	From: pam andress	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34745	From: pam andress	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34746	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34747	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: OT: unsub from grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34748	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: I have just one thing to say
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34749	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34750	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34751	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34752	From: pam andress	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34753	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: OT: unsub from grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34754	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34755	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34756	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34757	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34758	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34759	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34760	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Blister?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34761	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34762	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34763	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Blister?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34764	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: OT: unsub from grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34765	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Blister?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34767	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: OT: unsub from grouply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34768	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Blister?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34769	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34770	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34771	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34772	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34773	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34774	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Sexing Goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34775	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Sexing Goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34776	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34777	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Merry Christmas!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34778	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Sexing Goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34780	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34781	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34782	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34783	From: Lisa	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Swordtail breeding habits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34784	From: Chris	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Swordtail Doing a Nose Stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34785	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34786	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34787	From: Darlene	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Q: jungle products / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34788	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34789	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34790	From: Djauharuddin Yafie	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34791	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34792	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34793	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34794	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34795	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34796	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34797	From: Debra Penna-Fredericks	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Mixing Amphibs and Fish - Yes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34798	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34799	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Merry Christmas All!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34800	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34801	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34802	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34803	From: greychildren	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34804	From: Darlene	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34805	From: Darlene	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Happy Holidays !!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34807	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34808	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Happy Holidays
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34809	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: OT: Christmas Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34810	From: Darlene	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34811	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34812	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34813	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34814	From: bill1433	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny/ for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34815	From: bill1433	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Happy Holiday's Too All
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34816	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34817	From: pam andress	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34818	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Saltwater vs. Freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34819	From: greychildren	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Saltwater vs. Freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34820	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34821	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Saltwater vs. Freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34822	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH (GH results)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34823	From: bill1433	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34824	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Ebay Seller
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34825	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34826	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34827	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny/ for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34829	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34830	From: Darlene	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34831	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Ebay Seller
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34833	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH (GH results)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34834	From: Darlene	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: changes to my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34835	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: OT: Going Way OT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34836	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34837	From: Lisa	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Something is wrong with my female zebra danio
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34838	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Re: Something is wrong with my female zebra danio
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34839	From: greychildren	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Re: Saltwater vs. Freshwater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34840	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH (GH results)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34841	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Re: planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34842	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34843	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Re: planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: planted tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34845	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: clear flat creatures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34846	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: clear flat creatures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34847	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: clear flat creatures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34848	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH (GH results)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34849	From: Wendie	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Java Moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34850	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34851	From: Wendie	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34854	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34855	From: Wendie	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34856	From: Wendie	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Brita Filters and Pur Filters (was Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34858	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34859	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34860	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Brita Filters and Pur Filters (was Re: Newbie with a fungus prob
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34861	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34862	From: Darlene	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Friday test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34863	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34864	From: Leanna	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Hi Im New
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34865	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34866	From: Wendie	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34867	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34868	From: Leanna	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Fancy Tail Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34869	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Lucille's Tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34870	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34871	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34872	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34873	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fancy Tail Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34874	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34875	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fancy Tail Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34876	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34877	From: Darlene	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hi Im New
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34879	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34880	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34881	From: Darlene	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34882	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34883	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34884	From: Darlene	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: was OK got the angelfish photo! now supplies :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34885	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34886	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34887	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34888	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: What is this Unknown Organism
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34889	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: What is this Unknown Organism
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34890	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34891	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: What is this Unknown Organism
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34894	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34895	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34896	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34897	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: What is this Unknown Organism
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34898	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34899	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34900	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34901	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34903	From: bill1433	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Ye Olde Medicine Cabinet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34904	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo! THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34905	From: Leanna	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hi Im New
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34906	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34907	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34908	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo! THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34909	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Medicine Cabinet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Medicine Cabinet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hi Im New
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34912	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34913	From: Darlene	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo/ RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34914	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34915	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34916	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34917	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34918	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo/ RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34919	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34920	From: bill1433	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34921	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34922	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34923	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34924	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34925	From: pam andress	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34927	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34928	From: William	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34929	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo/ RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34930	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34931	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34932	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34933	From: bill1433	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34934	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34935	From: bill1433	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34936	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34937	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34938	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34939	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34940	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Cleaning tank filters, ect....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34941	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34942	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34943	From: William	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34944	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34945	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Q: Hard Water / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34946	From: greychildren	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34947	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34948	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34949	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34950	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34951	From: pepe_joan	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: bichir
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34952	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34953	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo/ RAY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34954	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34955	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34956	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34957	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34958	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34960	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34961	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34962	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34963	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Q: Hard Water / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34966	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34967	From: bill1433	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34968	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34969	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34970	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34971	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34972	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34973	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Heavy Metals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34974	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34975	From: bill1433	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34976	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Q: Hard Water / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34979	From: bill1433	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34980	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Q: Hard Water / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34981	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34982	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34984	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34985	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34986	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34987	From: William	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34988	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34989	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34990	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34991	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34992	From: Darlene	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Q: Hard Water / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34993	From: bill1433	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34994	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Q: Hard Water / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34997	From: greychildren	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: hard times
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34998	From: Trish Souza	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34999	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35000	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35002	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: hard times
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35004	From: smar765	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about additives
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35005	From: harry perry	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: A new home page photo.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35006	From: pam andress	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A new home page photo.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35007	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A new home page photo.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35008	From: harry perry	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A new home page photo.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35009	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Angelfish laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35010	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35011	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35012	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35013	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35014	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35015	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: hard times
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35016	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35017	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35018	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35019	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35020	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35021	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35022	From: deborahgd14	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: A new home page photo.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35023	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35024	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35025	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35026	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: hard times
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35027	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35028	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35029	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Bacteria Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35030	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: hard times
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35031	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35032	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35033	From: bill1433	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Hey Len? Its about plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35034	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35035	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35036	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35037	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35038	From: William	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35039	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35040	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35041	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35042	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35043	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35044	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Len? Its about plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35046	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35047	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35048	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35049	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35050	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35051	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35052	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35053	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35054	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35055	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: a filter for my 2.5 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35058	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35059	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35060	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35061	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35062	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35063	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35064	From: bill1433	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Len? Its about plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35065	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35066	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35067	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35068	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35069	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35070	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35071	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35072	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35073	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35074	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water 36 hours retested / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35075	From: bill1433	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35077	From: jason	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35078	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35079	From: jason	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35080	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35081	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35082	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35083	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35084	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35085	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35086	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35087	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35088	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35089	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35090	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35091	From: Lisa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Algae eaters.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35092	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Algae eaters.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35093	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Algae eaters.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY... SEE Y'ALL NEXT YEAR (Was RE: [AquaticLif
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35095	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35096	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35097	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35098	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY... SEE Y'ALL NEXT YEAR (Was RE: [Aquati
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35099	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35100	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35101	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35102	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY... SEE Y'ALL NEXT YEAR (Was RE: [Aquati

---

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30770	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal

Nedra, Besides what Lenny states about most nitrifying bacteria being found in the filter, you may have noticed he also added that many hobbyists are still using undergravel filters (which would add to bacteria being colonized throughout most of your gravel). In the absence of a UGF, nitrifying bacteria grow only on the surface of the gravel and as far down between the grains as sufficient oxygen there will allow for it to survive (1/4" -- 3/8" deep perhaps, at the most, due to no circulation). If you're still thinking of removing the gravel, to later reinstate this same gravel with expectations of saving whatever nitrifying bacteria is growing on it, keep in mind that once you disturb and remove it to a bucket, this surface will now be buried somewhere in the heap of gravel you'll be creating -- and will not survive being deprived of oxygen under the heap of gravel on top of it. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30771	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Base line test

True, but the local Petsmart has been out for over a week & doesn't know when they will be in. Bill -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 8:22:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Base line test Yeah... dip strips are outrageously priced when compared to the number of tests one would get from an API Master Test Kit or one of the other brands. I find that PetsMart.com has a good price on the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and the local stores will match their online prices if you print the webpage. Last time I looked, the website price was around $15 - $17. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Base line test Hi Lenny, Sorry for the confusion. No I'm not Sarah. I just could not find my thread so I just replied to the first one on my e mail server. The reason I used the Jungle test strips, was because it was all I could find. They did not have any more API test kits. With 37 tanks, the dip strips don't last me long, especially testing before & 12 hrs after water changes. I will be going to metropolitan Los Angeles this weekend, and should be able to pick up an API master test kit. I will do a new base line test next Monday. Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 7:17:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water First I want to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying to Sarah Huss in this thread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in the same? Or maybe you switched email accounts since the Hotmail account was losing all of the formatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so I don't have to address you as "Hey You!" LOL It's interesting that the nitrates came down although it could just be the Jungle test strips not being as accurate but if you did use Prime, then it could possibly have an effect on the nitrate level as well. I think you should redo the baseline test and use your API test kit and Jungle test strips just so you can see how they compare. My previous comparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showed the test strips were very inconsistent in their readings. Is the GH coming out as 25 degrees of GH out the tap and then going down to 0 degrees after 24 hours? If so, then it's likely one or more of the buffers added by your utility that is giving a false positive right out the tap, then once it's exposed to air/light, it breaks down and/or dissipates out of the water. This means you really do not have to worry about it IMO as it will not likely affect your water parameters in your tank with 25% PWC's. For the KH, you look near perfect at 150ppm (apx. 8 dKH). This will constantly go down in your tank as well due to the ecology (bacteria, critters, plants, fish, etc.) of the tank using up the carbonates as part of their life cycles. It seems that all of your tests started out really high and then went down to more normal levels. I'm not sure if it's due to buffers in the tap water or the Jungle test strips. If you can duplicate the test using API's test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, I think you would get more consistent numbers but I think your water is fine for the majority of fish out there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water Hi Lenny, I did a water base line like you suggested and the readings are as follows using Jungle test strips. Out of tap 24 hrs 48 hrs ---------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- NITRATE 20 10 10 NITRITE .5 0 0 GH 25 0 0 TOTAL CHLORINE 0 0 0 KH (Alkalinity) 300 150 150 PH 7.2 7.8 7.2 Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs (temp taken with digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken. My initial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquid test media). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle 0708). Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% water changes in all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 days later. A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active, and colors got more intense. Thanks, Bill Scott So. California. -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water OK. That's good that your ammonia is still at 0.0ppm. You really need to get that Nitrate test kit so you will know when your nitrite eating bacteria are starting to do their job. For the long run, you will use your nitrate test far more often than the ammonia and nitrite tests. Your nitrate test kit will be one of the tests that determine how often you need to do your PWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do to keep the water quality in good shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primary tests in establishing my routines on my tanks. If you are refilling your bottles at one of those machines, you want to do the 48 hour baseline test on that water as well so you can know what your starting point is going to be. While they might call it "spring water", all it is going to be is filtered tap water. I'm betting they didn't drill down into an underwater spring before putting the vending machine in place. ;-) If at some point in the future, you decide that is an inconvenience or the cost starts to add up, there are under-sink filter systems that will do the same thing. I've never worried about filtering my water before although when I did rescue a Betta after Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him to the water from my tap, but with the Pur water filter on since it wasn't much water being changed and I was doing daily 25% changes on his small vase until I was able to set up a 10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10G tank, I went back to using regular tap water for him. What kind of light do you have on your tank? If it's fluorescent, it does not put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are cool to the touch even when lit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put out lots of heat so if you do not have a heater, that may be an option. You could also wrap the tank in a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night and maybe only turn out the lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in a blanket. That would at least give the fish some dark time while not allowing the tank temp to drop down. You definitely want a heater for the tropical fish. If you read over the Mongabay profile http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > on the ID Shark (actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish with poor eyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIG so it could be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish are often scavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. I do not see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite often nocturnal but possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientific name to read up more on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:52 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water My PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten my test for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coat in. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided to use spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will just take my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the water isnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank. I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kicked it up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, so it's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to it soon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with the fish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get a working heater again? Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems like he is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still like this when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have a hyperactive fish? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water Oops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of salt levelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. You stillhave more than that level right now since you had added four tablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than two tablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 which means your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to make sure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Todays waterI filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here aretodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8 (9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat for future use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group ratherthan my email.Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:16:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 10:04:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 10:22:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30772	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

Thanks for all the replies on my rock critters, it looks like the feathery thing is a baby feather duster, as for the other item, I still dont know what that is...but never mind. I think I may need to change the way I receive my mail from this group, it sure is busy lol, I only log on every couple of days and there are tons of mail. All good reading I might add :o) «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: canampc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 12:36 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I look in few of my book, but the pics are not very good, so I found more than 20 who look the same, anyway, here a good link for those kind of worms, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30773	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Coral Beauty Problem

I have had a coral beauty in my tank for 10 days now, when I first got it, there was a small white patch on the arch of his back where the fins are, I thought this was due to a scrap he had with a damsel when first added to the tank. This seems to have gotten bigger over the 10 days and today I can actually see 2/3 small white bones with no fin/skin on them. There doesn't seem to be a problem with the beauty as he is acting the same as he has done since adding him to the tank. He is not breathing heavy, swimming actively, grazing on rocks. I have checked my water params. Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0 Nitrate = 10ppm PH = 8.2 Salinity = 1.021 I know the nitrate could come down, but I believe this is still a safe level for fish. Does anyone know what this problem might be please? «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30774	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please?

Send an email to AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com and that will get you on the Daily Digest where you'll get one email with up to 25 emails included, separated by Subjects. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? Thanks for all the replies on my rock critters, it looks like the feathery thing is a baby feather duster, as for the other item, I still dont know what that is...but never mind. I think I may need to change the way I receive my mail from this group, it sure is busy lol, I only log on every couple of days and there are tons of mail. All good reading I might add :o) «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: canampc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 12:36 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks & Can anyone tell me what this might be please? I look in few of my book, but the pics are not very good, so I found more than 20 who look the same, anyway, here a good link for those kind of worms, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feather.htm> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 10/1/2008 4:32:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30775	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: dropsy

So I woke up this morning and my smaller goldfish has dropsy. I new somthing was wrong but couldnt figure out what. I am assuming my other has it as well but have not been able to find him yet :-(. ALso my id shark has hole in the head. So, I guess I will just wait out these fish surely it cannot be much longer before IT happens. Once it does, do I recycle the tank or just do water changes?Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:49:09 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread (was Re: Todays water) (that will keep them straight. LOL) Hi Sarah,Yep... you got it right on the money with your filtration, carbon, etc.I would wait on adding plants until all of the fish are healthy and you'vedone enough PWC's to have removed the majority of the salt. Then, whenbuying your plants, do not add the plants to the tank until you've cleanedthem and quarantined them to make sure they are snail free and disease free.To keep the plants "fed" while in quarantine, you can just remove some ofthe tank water with the higher nitrates, phosphates, etc. and use that forthe plants. You can use a clean 5G bucket for the plants quarantine periodand place it near a window but not in direct sun so they get enoughlighting. Here's a couple of threads/articles on sanitizing plants that I have in myfavorites folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:24 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterYeah, Lenny, this wasnt me, Sarah. lol I did get a new heater though :-) Itsa submersiable with a thermostat. My fishes will love me tonight. I alsotook your advice on your blog about doing surgery on my marineland 200filter cartridge. This way I can still filter the water even if it has medsin it. I will just need to pick up some carbon to filter out the meds whenneeded. I'm making a trip to the pet store for it tomorrow, and would alsolike some new plants. Should I wait to add any and do some more waterchanges for the salt to be removed some more? Or should they be fine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:16:58 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterFirst I want to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying toSarahHuss in this thread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in thesame?Or maybe you switched email accounts since the Hotmail account waslosingall of the formatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so Idon'thave to address you as "Hey You!" LOLIt's interesting that the nitratescame down although it could just be theJungle test strips not being asaccurate but if you did use Prime, then itcould possibly have an effect onthe nitrate level as well.I think you should redo the baseline test and useyour API test kit andJungle test strips just so you can see how theycompare. My previouscomparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showedthe test strips werevery inconsistent in their readings.Is the GH coming outas 25 degrees of GH out the tap and then going down to0 degrees after 24hours? If so, then it's likely one or more of thebuffers added by yourutility that is giving a false positive right out thetap, then once it'sexposed to air/light, it breaks down and/or dissipatesout of the water. Thismeans you really do not have to worry about it IMOas it will not likelyaffect your water parameters in your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH, you looknear perfect at 150ppm (apx. 8 dKH). This willconstantly go down in yourtank as well due to the ecology (bacteria,critters, plants, fish, etc.) ofthe tank using up the carbonates as part oftheir life cycles.It seems thatall of your tests started out really high and then went downto more normallevels. I'm not sure if it's due to buffers in the tap wateror the Jungletest strips. If you can duplicate the test using API's testkits for ammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, I think you would getmore consistentnumbers but I think your water is fine for the majority offish outthere.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of William J. ScottSent:Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did a water base line like you suggested and the readingsare as followsusing Jungle test strips.Out of tap24 hrs 48hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRATE 201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH (Alkalinity) 300150 150PH7.27.8 7.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs(temp takenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken.Myinitial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquidtestmedia). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle0708).Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% waterchangesin all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 dayslater.A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active,andcolors got more intense.Thanks,Bill ScottSo. California.-------OriginalMessage-------From: Lenny V. aka GoldLennyDate: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's good that your ammonia is still at0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate test kit so you will know whenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to do their job. For the long run,you will use your nitratetest far more often than the ammonia and nitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of the tests that determine howoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do tokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primarytests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.If you are refilling yourbottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe 48 hour baseline test onthat water as well so you can know what yourstarting point is going to be.While they might call it "spring water", allit is going to be is filteredtap water. I'm betting they didn't drill downinto an underwater springbefore putting the vending machine in place. ;-)If at some point in thefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecost starts to add up,there are under-sink filter systems that will do thesame thing. I've neverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhen I did rescue a Bettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe water from my tap, butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwater being changed and Iwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I was able to set up a10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, I went back to usingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do you have on your tank? Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are coolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put outlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may be an option. You couldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night andmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in ablanket. That would atleast give the fish some dark time while not allowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want a heater for the tropicalfish.If you read over the Mongabayprofilehttp://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<profilehttp://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > on theIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish withpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIGso itcould be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish areoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. Idonot see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite oftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientificname toread up more on it.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday,September 30, 2008 11:52 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gottenmytest for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stresscoatin. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decidedtouse spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I willjusttake my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that thewaterisnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kickeditup this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, soit'sgoing back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to itsoon,because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with thefish moreif I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get aworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he isstill likethis when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do Ijust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but youjust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was tobe, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always findthe strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. I forgot to mention. Keepat least the "pinch per 10G" of saltlevelin your tank while you are stillhaving nitrite (NO2-) issues. Youstillhave more than that level right nowsince you had added fourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still havemore than twotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level isstill 0 whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test yourammonia to makesure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] TodayswaterIfilled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons tothe35gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water andherearetodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4tablespoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) Ihadsince taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I knowmytank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has takenitall out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be goneandmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I haveheardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply fromyahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > :Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008Tested on:9/30/2008 9:16:58 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:34:35 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:49:09 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30776	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Feeding question.

Just a quick question for anyone...... Can goldfish and tropical fish be fed with Mysis & Artemia? I was just wondering seeing as the marine fish love it so much. Thanks in advance «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30777	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: dropsy

How did you come to the conclusion it was dropsy for the goldfish and HITH for the ID Shark (catfish)? Those are both rather rare diseases. I do not recall seeing any posts by you with any problems or symptoms related to either of these diseases. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:51 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] dropsy So I woke up this morning and my smaller goldfish has dropsy. I new somthing was wrong but couldnt figure out what. I am assuming my other has it as well but have not been able to find him yet :-(. ALso my id shark has hole in the head. So, I guess I will just wait out these fish surely it cannot be much longer before IT happens. Once it does, do I recycle the tank or just do water changes?Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:49:09 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread (was Re: Todays water) (that will keep them straight. LOL) Hi Sarah,Yep... you got it right on the money with your filtration, carbon, etc.I would wait on adding plants until all of the fish are healthy and you'vedone enough PWC's to have removed the majority of the salt. Then, whenbuying your plants, do not add the plants to the tank until you've cleanedthem and quarantined them to make sure they are snail free and disease free.To keep the plants "fed" while in quarantine, you can just remove some ofthe tank water with the higher nitrates, phosphates, etc. and use that forthe plants. You can use a clean 5G bucket for the plants quarantine periodand place it near a window but not in direct sun so they get enoughlighting. Here's a couple of threads/articles on sanitizing plants that I have in myfavorites folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfor ums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:24 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterYeah, Lenny, this wasnt me, Sarah. lol I did get a new heater though :-) Itsa submersiable with a thermostat. My fishes will love me tonight. I alsotook your advice on your blog about doing surgery on my marineland 200filter cartridge. This way I can still filter the water even if it has medsin it. I will just need to pick up some carbon to filter out the meds whenneeded. I'm making a trip to the pet store for it tomorrow, and would alsolike some new plants. Should I wait to add any and do some more waterchanges for the salt to be removed some more? Or should they be fine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:16:58 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterFirst I want to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying toSarahHuss in this thread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in thesame?Or maybe you switched email accounts since the Hotmail account waslosingall of the formatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so Idon'thave to address you as "Hey You!" LOLIt's interesting that the nitratescame down although it could just be theJungle test strips not being asaccurate but if you did use Prime, then itcould possibly have an effect onthe nitrate level as well.I think you should redo the baseline test and useyour API test kit andJungle test strips just so you can see how theycompare. My previouscomparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showedthe test strips werevery inconsistent in their readings.Is the GH coming outas 25 degrees of GH out the tap and then going down to0 degrees after 24hours? If so, then it's likely one or more of thebuffers added by yourutility that is giving a false positive right out thetap, then once it'sexposed to air/light, it breaks down and/or dissipatesout of the water. Thismeans you really do not have to worry about it IMOas it will not likelyaffect your water parameters in your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH, you looknear perfect at 150ppm (apx. 8 dKH). This willconstantly go down in yourtank as well due to the ecology (bacteria,critters, plants, fish, etc.) ofthe tank using up the carbonates as part oftheir life cycles.It seems thatall of your tests started out really high and then went downto more normallevels. I'm not sure if it's due to buffers in the tap wateror the Jungletest strips. If you can duplicate the test using API's testkits for ammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, I think you would getmore consistentnumbers but I think your water is fine for the majority offish outthere.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> OnBehalf Of William J. ScottSent:Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did a water base line like you suggested and the readingsare as followsusing Jungle test strips.Out of tap24 hrs 48hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRATE 201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH (Alkalinity) 300150 150PH7.27.8 7.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs(temp takenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken.Myinitial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquidtestmedia). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle0708).Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% waterchangesin all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 dayslater.A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active,andcolors got more intense.Thanks,Bill ScottSo. California.-------OriginalMessage-------From: Lenny V. aka GoldLennyDate: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's good that your ammonia is still at0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate test kit so you will know whenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to do their job. For the long run,you will use your nitratetest far more often than the ammonia and nitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of the tests that determine howoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do tokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primarytests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.If you are refilling yourbottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe 48 hour baseline test onthat water as well so you can know what yourstarting point is going to be.While they might call it "spring water", allit is going to be is filteredtap water. I'm betting they didn't drill downinto an underwater springbefore putting the vending machine in place. ;-)If at some point in thefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecost starts to add up,there are under-sink filter systems that will do thesame thing. I've neverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhen I did rescue a Bettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe water from my tap, butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwater being changed and Iwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I was able to set up a10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, I went back to usingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do you have on your tank? Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are coolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put outlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may be an option. You couldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night andmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in ablanket. That would atleast give the fish some dark time while not allowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want a heater for the tropicalfish.If you read over the Mongabayprofile ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html > > > on theIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish withpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIGso itcould be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish areoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. Idonot see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite oftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientificname toread up more on it.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday,September 30, 2008 11:52 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gottenmytest for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stresscoatin. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decidedtouse spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I willjusttake my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that thewaterisnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kickeditup this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, soit'sgoing back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to itsoon,because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with thefish moreif I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get aworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he isstill likethis when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do Ijust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but youjust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was tobe, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always findthe strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. I forgot to mention. Keepat least the "pinch per 10G" of saltlevelin your tank while you are stillhaving nitrite (NO2-) issues. Youstillhave more than that level right nowsince you had added fourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still havemore than twotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level isstill 0 whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test yourammonia to makesure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] TodayswaterIfilled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons tothe35gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water andherearetodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4tablespoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) Ihadsince taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I knowmytank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has takenitall out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be goneandmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I haveheardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply fromyahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 Tested on: 10/1/2008 10:54:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30778	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: How to move my plec from one established tank to a larger establishe

I need to move my plec to a bigger, well established tank. Yesterday, while making a water change for the smaller platy tank. I figured I should acclimate him to the water of the tank to which he's going. I added some "old" water to a spare tank, then put the plec in it by himself; I also added some clean water to this temporary tank. There are about 3 gallons in it now, and the water looks pretty dingy. My plan was to remove some water from the larger ciclid tank (to which he is going) and gradually, over the course of a few days, add it to his temporary tank so that he gets used to the water. It occurs to me that we all put new fish in their new homes without acclimating them to the new water (except for temp) -- am I making this more complicated than it needs to be?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30779	From: dragula707	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: hello group

my name is Raven and i have a 55 gallon freshwater tank which includes, 3 buenos aries terras, 4 black tetras 2 green severums, 2 angelfish 4 danioms, 4 mickymouse platyes, 5 bamboo plants, 2 razor plants, and my tank is set up as an egyptian set, i also have 1 placty, and 2 afarican frogs, sorry my spelling is bad

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30780	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: dropsy

I assumed dropsy because of the pine cone shaped he has this morning but after reading more he is not bloted, instead he is super skinny this morning it pretty well happened over night. He is still breathing but is pretty well being pushed around by the flow of water and picked at by my other goldfish. The other goldfish is starting to get his scales pulling off a little as well but is still swimming. the hold inthe head with the catfish is just that, a hold in the side of his head. at first I thought it was just a sore so I never mentioned anything but then started reading for the goldfish and came upon that. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] dropsy How did you come to the conclusion it was dropsy for the goldfish and HITHfor the ID Shark (catfish)? Those are both rather rare diseases. I do notrecall seeing any posts by you with any problems or symptoms related toeither of these diseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:51 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] dropsySo I woke up this morning and my smaller goldfish has dropsy. I new somthingwas wrong but couldnt figure out what. I am assuming my other has it as wellbut have not been able to find him yet :-(. ALso my id shark has hole in thehead. So, I guess I will just wait out these fish surely it cannot be muchlonger before IT happens. Once it does, do I recycle the tank or just dowater changes?Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal withlife as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probablywould have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strengthto meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:49:09 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread (was Re: Todays water) (that will keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... you got it right on the money with your filtration, carbon,etc.I would wait on adding plants until all of the fish are healthy andyou'vedone enough PWC's to have removed the majority of the salt. Then,whenbuying your plants, do not add the plants to the tank until you'vecleanedthem and quarantined them to make sure they are snail free anddisease free.To keep the plants "fed" while in quarantine, you can justremove some ofthe tank water with the higher nitrates, phosphates, etc. anduse that forthe plants. You can use a clean 5G bucket for the plantsquarantine periodand place it near a window but not in direct sun so theyget enoughlighting. Here's a couple of threads/articles on sanitizing plantsthat I have in myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:24 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny, this wasnt me, Sarah. lol I did get a new heater though:-) Itsa submersiable with a thermostat. My fishes will love me tonight. Ialsotook your advice on your blog about doing surgery on my marineland200filter cartridge. This way I can still filter the water even if it hasmedsin it. I will just need to pick up some carbon to filter out the medswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to the pet store for it tomorrow, and wouldalsolike some new plants. Should I wait to add any and do some morewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more? Or should they befine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:16:58 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterFirst Iwant to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying toSarahHuss in thisthread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in thesame?Or maybe youswitched email accounts since the Hotmail account waslosingall of theformatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so Idon'thave toaddress you as "Hey You!" LOLIt's interesting that the nitratescame downalthough it could just be theJungle test strips not being asaccurate but ifyou did use Prime, then itcould possibly have an effect onthe nitrate levelas well.I think you should redo the baseline test and useyour API test kitandJungle test strips just so you can see how theycompare. Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showedthe test stripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Is the GH coming outas 25 degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0 degrees after 24hours? If so, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers added by yourutility that is giving afalse positive right out thetap, then once it'sexposed to air/light, itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of the water. Thismeans you really do nothave to worry about it IMOas it will not likelyaffect your water parametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH, you looknear perfect at 150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go down in yourtank as well due to the ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish, etc.) ofthe tank using up the carbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.It seems thatall of your tests started outreally high and then went downto more normallevels. I'm not sure if it's dueto buffers in the tap wateror the Jungletest strips. If you can duplicatethe test using API's testkits for ammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, Ithink you would getmore consistentnumbers but I think your water is fine forthe majority offish outthere.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listedonthe right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> OnBehalf Of William J.ScottSent:Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did a water base line like you suggested and thereadingsare as followsusing Jungle test strips.Out of tap24 hrs48hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRATE201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH (Alkalinity) 300150150PH7.27.8 7.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48hrs(temp takenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were nottaken.Myinitial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using APIliquidtestmedia). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date onbottle0708).Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25%waterchangesin all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3dayslater.A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be moreactive,andcolors got more intense.Thanks,Bill ScottSo.California.-------OriginalMessage-------From: Lenny V. aka GoldLennyDate:9/30/2008 10:35:15 AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's good thatyour ammonia is still at0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate test kitso you will know whenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to do theirjob. For the long run,you will use your nitratetest far more often than theammonia and nitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of the tests thatdetermine howoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWC you needto do tokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as myprimarytests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.If you are refillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe 48 hour baselinetest onthat water as well so you can know what yourstarting point is goingto be.While they might call it "spring water", allit is going to be isfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn't drill downinto an underwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place. ;-)If at some point inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecost starts to addup,there are under-sink filter systems that will do thesame thing. I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhen I did rescue aBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe water from my tap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwater being changed andIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I was able to set upa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, I went back tousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do you have on your tank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat. The bulbs arecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do putoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may be an option. Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at nightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with the tank wrapped inablanket. That would atleast give the fish some dark time while notallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want a heater for thetropicalfish.If you read over the Mongabayprofile><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html > > > ontheIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fishwithpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get veryBIGso itcould be that it is just looking for more food. Catfishareoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging forfood. Idonot see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quiteoftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on thescientificname toread up more on it.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >(Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year, Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday,September 30, 2008 11:52 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 forammonia not NO3. I havent gottenmytest for that yet. So I am not have anyammonia since I put the stresscoatin. That was last week and I havent had aproblem since. I have decidedtouse spring water. I started working at goodol' wally world so I willjusttake my big bottles and fill them after work.This way I know that thewaterisnt my problem and it's something to do withthe bacteria in my tank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently it was turneddown very far. I kickeditup this morning when I noticed it but now its notwanting to turn on, soit'sgoing back to the store when I get a chance.Hopefully I get to itsoon,because it gets cold in our house at night. Wouldit mess with thefish moreif I just left the light on to help keep its heatuntil I get aworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, Inever see him sleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night. Iwork nights and he isstill likethis when I get home. Is this normalbehaviour for them, or do Ijust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee, but youjust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of what was tobe, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, you always findthe strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep 2008 11:37:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. Iforgot to mention. Keepat least the "pinch per 10G" of saltlevelin your tankwhile you are stillhaving nitrite (NO2-) issues. Youstillhave more than thatlevel right nowsince you had added fourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC soyou still havemore than twotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate(NO3-) level isstill 0 whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need totest yourammonia to makesure you are not havingan ammonia spike aswell.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links toarticles referencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month andunderLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]TodayswaterIfilled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6gallons tothe35gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested waterandherearetodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No30(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put4tablespoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less)Ihadsince taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.Iknowmytank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it wasarescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but asofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.Asfor meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon hastakenitall out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto begoneandmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.Ihaveheardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought aboutgettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I hadnoticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to replyfromyahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 10:54:44 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: How to move my plec from one established tank to a larger establ

What are the water parameters of the two tanks? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH, temp? Do you have a filter running on the temporary tank? I think you might be doing a little acclimation over-kill but that also depends on how much different the two systems were. If one was a soft water or black water system at one temperature and the other system was a hard water system with special salts/minerals/additives, at a much different temperature, then taking time to acclimate the fish would be a good thing. If the two systems had similar water parameters, then it might not be as much of an issue. Going slowly is certainly easier on the fishes osmoregulatory system but if the systems had similar water parameters, the most I would have probably done was set up a drip acclimation for several hours. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How to move my plec from one established tank to a larger established tank? I need to move my plec to a bigger, well established tank. Yesterday, while making a water change for the smaller platy tank. I figured I should acclimate him to the water of the tank to which he's going. I added some "old" water to a spare tank, then put the plec in it by himself; I also added some clean water to this temporary tank. There are about 3 gallons in it now, and the water looks pretty dingy. My plan was to remove some water from the larger ciclid tank (to which he is going) and gradually, over the course of a few days, add it to his temporary tank so that he gets used to the water. It occurs to me that we all put new fish in their new homes without acclimating them to the new water (except for temp) -- am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 Tested on: 10/1/2008 11:47:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30782	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: dropsy

So the scales are sticking out like a pinecone but the goldfish aren't bloated? That's not dropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish from the side and top so we can get a better idea of what you are seeing? Remind me of what you first posted about your fish. I kind of remember it being Ich but I'm not positive since some of the threads got pretty convoluted. Give me a short history on the fish/tank. I have some ideas of what you could be seeing but I want a refresher about your tanks before throwing things out. As far as the injury to the catfish (ID shark), it could simply be that. From what I remember, you rescued this fish from a cichlid tank so it may have been picked on by the cichlids. ID sharks/catfish are not armored like many of the plecos that are more commonly kept in cichlid tanks since they are more able to fight back and fend for themselves in an often aggressive and territorial set-up. I haven't been reading a lot about HITH in the past couple of years, since Katrina made me cut back the number of tanks that I have, and I've never had to personally deal with it but it's not just an isolated "hole" like that caused from an injury and isn't a festering type of hole/injury either. It's more like a series of pitting in the head, sensory pits and lateral line area and more often afflicting larger breeds of cichlids. Many surmise (and I mostly agree) that it's related to diet and water quality issues that affect many larger fish species which are the ones most likely to be kept in undersized tanks so they live their lives in lesser water quality compared to smaller fish and are not fed proper diets because feeding them the amount of food they should be fed would only make the water quality issues even worse. It's common with Oscars which are very BIG fish and unfortunately many people keep them in tanks as small as 55G tanks. I think a 14" fish that is an able bodied swimmer that needs a lot of protein in their diets needs MUCH MORE than a 55G tank. It's also why I recommend the minimum tank size as 55G for two fancy goldfish and even that is the bare minimum size but at least goldfish do not need as much protein in their diets. Protein rich diets cause much more water quality issues when compared to veggie based diets. Here's a couple of long articles I have in my favorites folder and you'll see there is still much to be learned about this disease. A Google Scholar search might find more recent and more definitive studies since both of these articles are a couple of years old and based on the best science references available at the time they were written. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php http://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] dropsy I assumed dropsy because of the pine cone shaped he has this morning but after reading more he is not bloted, instead he is super skinny this morning it pretty well happened over night. He is still breathing but is pretty well being pushed around by the flow of water and picked at by my other goldfish. The other goldfish is starting to get his scales pulling off a little as well but is still swimming. the hold inthe head with the catfish is just that, a hold in the side of his head. at first I thought it was just a sore so I never mentioned anything but then started reading for the goldfish and came upon that. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] dropsy How did you come to the conclusion it was dropsy for the goldfish and HITHfor the ID Shark (catfish)? Those are both rather rare diseases. I do notrecall seeing any posts by you with any problems or symptoms related toeither of these diseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:51 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] dropsySo I woke up this morning and my smaller goldfish has dropsy. I new somthingwas wrong but couldnt figure out what. I am assuming my other has it as wellbut have not been able to find him yet :-(. ALso my id shark has hole in thehead. So, I guess I will just wait out these fish surely it cannot be muchlonger before IT happens. Once it does, do I recycle the tank or just dowater changes?Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal withlife as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probablywould have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strengthto meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:49:09 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread (was Re: Todays water) (that will keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... you got it right on the money with your filtration, carbon,etc.I would wait on adding plants until all of the fish are healthy andyou'vedone enough PWC's to have removed the majority of the salt. Then,whenbuying your plants, do not add the plants to the tank until you'vecleanedthem and quarantined them to make sure they are snail free anddisease free.To keep the plants "fed" while in quarantine, you can justremove some ofthe tank water with the higher nitrates, phosphates, etc. anduse that forthe plants. You can use a clean 5G bucket for the plantsquarantine periodand place it near a window but not in direct sun so theyget enoughlighting. Here's a couple of threads/articles on sanitizing plantsthat I have in myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http:// www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http:/ /www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> > VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:24 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny, this wasnt me, Sarah. lol I did get a new heater though:-) Itsa submersiable with a thermostat. My fishes will love me tonight. Ialsotook your advice on your blog about doing surgery on my marineland200filter cartridge. This way I can still filter the water even if it hasmedsin it. I will just need to pick up some carbon to filter out the medswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to the pet store for it tomorrow, and wouldalsolike some new plants. Should I wait to add any and do some morewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more? Or should they befine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:16:58 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterFirst Iwant to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying toSarahHuss in thisthread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in thesame?Or maybe youswitched email accounts since the Hotmail account waslosingall of theformatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so Idon'thave toaddress you as "Hey You!" LOLIt's interesting that the nitratescame downalthough it could just be theJungle test strips not being asaccurate but ifyou did use Prime, then itcould possibly have an effect onthe nitrate levelas well.I think you should redo the baseline test and useyour API test kitandJungle test strips just so you can see how theycompare. Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showedthe test stripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Is the GH coming outas 25 degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0 degrees after 24hours? If so, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers added by yourutility that is giving afalse positive right out thetap, then once it'sexposed to air/light, itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of the water. Thismeans you really do nothave to worry about it IMOas it will not likelyaffect your water parametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH, you looknear perfect at 150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go down in yourtank as well due to the ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish, etc.) ofthe tank using up the carbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.It seems thatall of your tests started outreally high and then went downto more normallevels. I'm not sure if it's dueto buffers in the tap wateror the Jungletest strips. If you can duplicatethe test using API's testkits for ammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, Ithink you would getmore consistentnumbers but I think your water is fine forthe majority offish outthere.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedonthe right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> OnBehalf Of William J.ScottSent:Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did a water base line like you suggested and thereadingsare as followsusing Jungle test strips.Out of tap24 hrs48hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRATE201 010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH (Alkalinity) 300150150PH7.27.8 7.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48hrs(temp takenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were nottaken.Myinitial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using APIliquidtestmedia). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date onbottle0708).Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25%waterchangesin all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3dayslater.A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be moreactive,andcolors got more intense.Thanks,Bill ScottSo.California.-------OriginalMessage-------From: Lenny V. aka GoldLennyDate:9/30/2008 10:35:15 AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's good thatyour ammonia is still at0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate test kitso you will know whenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to do theirjob. For the long run,you will use your nitratetest far more often than theammonia and nitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of the tests thatdetermine howoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWC you needto do tokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as myprimarytests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.If you are refillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe 48 hour baselinetest onthat water as well so you can know what yourstarting point is goingto be.While they might call it "spring water", allit is going to be isfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn't drill downinto an underwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place. ;-)If at some point inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecost starts to addup,there are under-sink filter systems that will do thesame thing. I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhen I did rescue aBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe water from my tap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwater being changed andIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I was able to set upa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, I went back tousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do you have on your tank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat. The bulbs arecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do putoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may be an option. Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at nightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with the tank wrapped inablanket. That would atleast give the fish some dark time while notallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want a heater for thetropicalfish.If you read over the Mongabayprofile><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.htm l <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > > > ontheIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fishwithpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get veryBIGso itcould be that it is just looking for more food. Catfishareoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging forfood. Idonot see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quiteoftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on thescientificname toread up more on it.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > >(Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year, Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday,September 30, 2008 11:52 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 forammonia not NO3. I havent gottenmytest for that yet. So I am not have anyammonia since I put the stresscoatin. That was last week and I havent had aproblem since. I have decidedtouse spring water. I started working at goodol' wally world so I willjusttake my big bottles and fill them after work.This way I know that thewaterisnt my problem and it's something to do withthe bacteria in my tank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently it was turneddown very far. I kickeditup this morning when I noticed it but now its notwanting to turn on, soit'sgoing back to the store when I get a chance.Hopefully I get to itsoon,because it gets cold in our house at night. Wouldit mess with thefish moreif I just left the light on to help keep its heatuntil I get aworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, Inever see him sleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night. Iwork nights and he isstill likethis when I get home. Is this normalbehaviour for them, or do Ijust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee, but youjust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of what was tobe, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, you always findthe strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep 2008 11:37:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. Iforgot to mention. Keepat least the "pinch per 10G" of saltlevelin your tankwhile you are stillhaving nitrite (NO2-) issues. Youstillhave more than thatlevel right nowsince you had added fourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC soyou still havemore than twotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate(NO3-) level isstill 0 whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need totest yourammonia to makesure you are not havingan ammonia spike aswell.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links toarticles referencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month andunderLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLi fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]TodayswaterIfilled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6gallons tothe35gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested waterandherearetodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No30(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put4tablespoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less)Ihadsince taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.Iknowmytank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it wasarescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but asofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.Asfor meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon hastakenitall out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto begoneandmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.Ihaveheardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought aboutgettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I hadnoticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to replyfromyahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 10:54:44 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 Tested on: 10/1/2008 11:23:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 Tested on: 10/1/2008 12:25:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30783	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: dropsy

The smaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming this morning and then just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It was a white goldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but you could see its gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummy was tiny compared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventually the gasps became smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing. I was treating for ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking at the smaller one before he died and he is now back into hiding. They had both been hiding for a couple of days. He still has the normal body size but his fins are looking a little wierd as well. I did check out the dead one before disposing of it. It looked like the back half of his scales were gone. I figure this is from the other goldfish picking it them. I thought the hole in the catfish's head was a sore but it wasnt going away even with the melafix. It looks alot like the photos, but there is only one hole. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] dropsy So the scales are sticking out like a pinecone but the goldfish aren'tbloated? That's not dropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish from theside and top so we can get a better idea of what you are seeing? Remind meof what you first posted about your fish. I kind of remember it being Ichbut I'm not positive since some of the threads got pretty convoluted. Giveme a short history on the fish/tank. I have some ideas of what you could beseeing but I want a refresher about your tanks before throwing things out.As far as the injury to the catfish (ID shark), it could simply be that.From what I remember, you rescued this fish from a cichlid tank so it mayhave been picked on by the cichlids. ID sharks/catfish are not armored likemany of the plecos that are more commonly kept in cichlid tanks since theyare more able to fight back and fend for themselves in an often aggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven't been reading a lot about HITH in the past couple of years, sinceKatrina made me cut back the number of tanks that I have, and I've never hadto personally deal with it but it's not just an isolated "hole" like thatcaused from an injury and isn't a festering type of hole/injury either.It's more like a series of pitting in the head, sensory pits and lateralline area and more often afflicting larger breeds of cichlids. Many surmise(and I mostly agree) that it's related to diet and water quality issues thataffect many larger fish species which are the ones most likely to be kept inundersized tanks so they live their lives in lesser water quality comparedto smaller fish and are not fed proper diets because feeding them the amountof food they should be fed would only make the water quality issues evenworse. It's common with Oscars which are very BIG fish and unfortunatelymany people keep them in tanks as small as 55G tanks. I think a 14" fish that is an able bodied swimmer that needs a lot ofprotein in their diets needs MUCH MORE than a 55G tank. It's also why Irecommend the minimum tank size as 55G for two fancy goldfish and even thatis the bare minimum size but at least goldfish do not need as much proteinin their diets. Protein rich diets cause much more water quality issueswhen compared to veggie based diets.Here's a couple of long articles I have in my favorites folder and you'llsee there is still much to be learned about this disease. A Google Scholarsearch might find more recent and more definitive studies since both ofthese articles are a couple of years old and based on the best sciencereferences available at the time they were written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyI assumed dropsy because of the pine cone shaped he has this morning butafter reading more he is not bloted, instead he is super skinny this morningit pretty well happened over night. He is still breathing but is pretty wellbeing pushed around by the flow of water and picked at by my other goldfish.The other goldfish is starting to get his scales pulling off a little aswell but is still swimming. the hold inthe head with the catfish is justthat, a hold in the side of his head. at first I thought it was just a soreso I never mentioned anything but then started reading for the goldfish andcame upon that.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyHow did you come to the conclusion it was dropsy for the goldfish andHITHfor the ID Shark (catfish)? Those are both rather rare diseases. I donotrecall seeing any posts by you with any problems or symptoms relatedtoeither of these diseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:51 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] dropsySo Iwoke up this morning and my smaller goldfish has dropsy. I new somthingwaswrong but couldnt figure out what. I am assuming my other has it as wellbuthave not been able to find him yet :-(. ALso my id shark has hole inthehead. So, I guess I will just wait out these fish surely it cannot bemuchlonger before IT happens. Once it does, do I recycle the tank or justdowater changes?Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwithlife as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobablywould have run scared the other way. However, you always find thestrengthto meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:49:09 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread (wasRe: Todays water) (that will keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... you gotit right on the money with your filtration, carbon,etc.I would wait onadding plants until all of the fish are healthy andyou'vedone enough PWC'sto have removed the majority of the salt. Then,whenbuying your plants, donot add the plants to the tank until you'vecleanedthem and quarantined themto make sure they are snail free anddisease free.To keep the plants "fed"while in quarantine, you can justremove some ofthe tank water with thehigher nitrates, phosphates, etc. anduse that forthe plants. You can use aclean 5G bucket for the plantsquarantine periodand place it near a windowbut not in direct sun so theyget enoughlighting. Here's a couple ofthreads/articles on sanitizing plantsthat I have inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> > VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday,September 30, 2008 9:24 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny, this wasnt me, Sarah. lol I did get a new heaterthough:-) Itsa submersiable with a thermostat. My fishes will love metonight. Ialsotook your advice on your blog about doing surgery on mymarineland200filter cartridge. This way I can still filter the water even ifit hasmedsin it. I will just need to pick up some carbon to filter out themedswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to the pet store for it tomorrow, andwouldalsolike some new plants. Should I wait to add any and do somemorewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more? Or should theybefine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life asitcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably wouldhaverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:16:58 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterFirstIwant to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying toSarahHuss inthisthread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in thesame?Or maybeyouswitched email accounts since the Hotmail account waslosingall oftheformatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so Idon'thavetoaddress you as "Hey You!" LOLIt's interesting that the nitratescamedownalthough it could just be theJungle test strips not being asaccurate butifyou did use Prime, then itcould possibly have an effect onthe nitratelevelas well.I think you should redo the baseline test and useyour API testkitandJungle test strips just so you can see how theycompare.Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showedthe teststripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Is the GH coming outas 25degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0 degrees after 24hours? Ifso, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers added by yourutility that isgiving afalse positive right out thetap, then once it'sexposed to air/light,itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of the water. Thismeans you really donothave to worry about it IMOas it will not likelyaffect your waterparametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH, you looknear perfect at150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go down in yourtank as well due tothe ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish, etc.) ofthe tank using up thecarbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.It seems thatall of your tests startedoutreally high and then went downto more normallevels. I'm not sure if it'sdueto buffers in the tap wateror the Jungletest strips. If you canduplicatethe test using API's testkits for ammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH, KHand GH, Ithink you would getmore consistentnumbers but I think your water isfine forthe majority offish outthere.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links toarticles referenced above listedonthe right side under Archives- Year, Monthand underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> OnBehalf Of WilliamJ.ScottSent:Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did a water base linelike you suggested and thereadingsare as followsusing Jungle test strips.Outof tap24hrs48hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRATE201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH (Alkalinity) 300150150PH7.27.87.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48hrs(temptakenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were nottaken.Myinitial email was because of high KH readings. (Using APIliquidtestmedia). 26 dropsto turn water from blue to green. (Date onbottle0708).Can you let me knowhow to proceed from here? I just did 25%waterchangesin all my tanks usingonly Prime in the water, and then again 3dayslater.A big difference inreadings. Also, the fish seemed to be moreactive,andcolors got moreintense.Thanks,Bill ScottSo.California.-------OriginalMessage-------From:Lenny V. aka GoldLennyDate:9/30/2008 10:35:15AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam]RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's good thatyour ammonia is stillat0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate test kitso you will knowwhenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to do theirjob. For the longrun,you will use your nitratetest far more often than theammonia andnitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of the tests thatdeterminehowoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWC you needto dotokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH asmyprimarytests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.If you arerefillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe 48 hourbaselinetest onthat water as well so you can know what yourstarting point isgoingto be.While they might call it "spring water", allit is going to beisfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn't drill downinto anunderwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place. ;-)If at somepoint inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecost starts toaddup,there are under-sink filter systems that will do thesame thing.I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhen I did rescueaBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe water from mytap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwater being changedandIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I was able to setupa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, I went backtousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do you have on yourtank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat. The bulbsarecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they doputoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may be an option.Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in atnightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with the tank wrappedinablanket. That would atleast give the fish some dark time whilenotallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want a heater forthetropicalfish.If you read over theMongabayprofile><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > > >ontheIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervousfishwithpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to getveryBIGso itcould be that it is just looking for more food.Catfishareoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foragingforfood. Idonot see it mentioned in that profile but catfish arequiteoftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Google search onthescientificname toread up more on it.Lenny VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > >(Links to articles referencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year, Month andunderLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 2008 11:52 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 forammonia not NO3. I haventgottenmytest for that yet. So I am not have anyammonia since I put thestresscoatin. That was last week and I havent had aproblem since. I havedecidedtouse spring water. I started working at goodol' wally world so Iwilljusttake my big bottles and fill them after work.This way I know thatthewaterisnt my problem and it's something to do withthe bacteria in mytank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently it was turneddown very far. Ikickeditup this morning when I noticed it but now its notwanting to turn on,soit'sgoing back to the store when I get a chance.Hopefully I get toitsoon,because it gets cold in our house at night. Wouldit mess with thefishmoreif I just left the light on to help keep its heatuntil I getaworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, Inever see himsleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night. Iwork nights and heisstill likethis when I get home. Is this normalbehaviour for them, or doIjust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee, butyoujust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of what wastobe, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, you alwaysfindthe strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep 2008 11:37:58-0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. Iforgot to mention. Keepat least the "pinchper 10G" of saltlevelin your tankwhile you are stillhaving nitrite (NO2-)issues. Youstillhave more than thatlevel right nowsince you had addedfourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC soyou still havemore thantwotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate(NO3-) level isstill 0whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need totest yourammonia tomakesure you are not havingan ammonia spike aswell.LennyVasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links toarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Tuesday, September 30, 200810:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]TodayswaterIfilled up the tanktoday (it was getting low) I added 6.6gallons tothe35gallon tank so its asfull as it should be. I retested waterandherearetodays stats (sundays statsin these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No30(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heaterwasnt working this morningI put4tablespoons in the tank last week (followthe box directions butwith less)Ihadsince taken and did a 40% water changeand did not addanymore salt.Iknowmytank is overstocked. I didnt plan ongetting the shark, it wasarescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do plan ongetting rid of it, but asofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it with allof the health issues.Asfor meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there right now(as long as thecarbon hastakenitall out) I was using quick cure for the ichwhich seemsto begoneandmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to beworking.Ihaveheardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thoughtaboutgettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email.I hadnoticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try toreplyfromyahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > :Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on:10/1/2008 10:54:44 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 11:23:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 12:25:25 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30784	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: hello group

Wow... quite a mix of critters. Did you do a lot of adopting/saving? What kind of "African frogs" do you have? ADF's (D=dwarf) or ACF's (C=clawed)? ADF's do not pose a problem but ACF's could pose a problem for your smaller fish and for your tanks bioload since they get much larger. You should go to http://fish.mongabay.com and read the profiles on each of your fish. Unless you have immediate plans for a much, much larger tank, your 55G will be severely overstocked with your current stocking. The Severums grow to 12" each and pose the biggest problem to your set-up. If you could rehome them and identify the frogs as ADF's, then you would be in better shape as far as the overstocking issues are concerned. The reason I stress this so much is overstocking or keeping fish in undersized tanks are the primary reasons for water quality issues, fish health issues, etc. Are the angelfish a mated pair? Do you have your bamboo plants submerged or in a hang-on-side type planter? I have one and the research I did says that only the bottom few inches of the stalk should be submerged but I have read other forum posts from folks that said they had the entire stalks submerged but these plants can grow quite tall... mine is about 3' tall now... so I'm not quite sure how they would live in a covered tank. I guess if the tank was uncovered and the stalks were in the corners or otherwise supported, they may be OK in aquaria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dragula707 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hello group my name is Raven and i have a 55 gallon freshwater tank which includes, 3 buenos aries terras, 4 black tetras 2 green severums, 2 angelfish 4 danioms, 4 mickymouse platyes, 5 bamboo plants, 2 razor plants, and my tank is set up as an egyptian set, i also have 1 placty, and 2 afarican frogs, sorry my spelling is bad _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 Tested on: 10/1/2008 1:33:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30785	From: iowakoi	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: The importance of measuring your pond water temps

As the seasons change so does pond care. From knowing when to stop feeding normal foods to taking in your plants and tender fancies, knowing how to test is important. It's also a good time to do a base line test of your parameters. Measuring Water Temperature Do not feed your fish when the water temperature is below 50 degrees. Why? The colder temperatures slow the metabolism of the fish which could cause the food to spoil in the stomach. The colder the temperature the slower the digestion. To accurately gauge the pond's water temperature though you must take the temperature at different times of the day. The sunlight will cause the water in your pond to increase during the day whereas the temperatures will be lower in the morning and evening hours. Take one reading first thing in the morning, one midday, and one in the early evening. Figure the average temperature and if it is above 50 degrees then it is safe to feed your fish. If it is below 50 degrees do not feed your fish. *Bring in your plecostomuses, apple snails and egg shaped fish like orandas, ryukins, and black moores. If in doubt bring them in.Tropical plants can make good house plants if they are kept atleast 50 degrees. You can overwinter some floating plants in a kiddie pool with a small pump and some lighting. * All tropical fish will die in cold water of say 60 degrees or lower -- this includes Plecostomuses and apple snails. Most of the inbred goldfish will not survive the winter -- the orandas, ryukins, and other egg shaped goldfish are in this category. I found lots of fall and winter care articles at http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com <http://www.richdeer3pondsupplies.com/> I'd love to hear any other ideas on getting floaters to overwinter inside. I can get them to do ok until about Feb then they die. Happy Ponding, Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30786	From: dragula707	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: hello group

my frogs are dwarfs and the bamboo is sunken, i really don't plan on getting any more fish and yes i did hear that the severums can get to be 12" long but that should pose no threat at i --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Wow... quite a mix of critters. Did you do a lot of adopting/saving? > > What kind of "African frogs" do you have? ADF's (D=dwarf) or ACF's > (C=clawed)? ADF's do not pose a problem but ACF's could pose a problem for > your smaller fish and for your tanks bioload since they get much larger. > > You should go to http://fish.mongabay.com and read the profiles on each of > your fish. Unless you have immediate plans for a much, much larger tank, > your 55G will be severely overstocked with your current stocking. > > The Severums grow to 12" each and pose the biggest problem to your set-up. > If you could rehome them and identify the frogs as ADF's, then you would be > in better shape as far as the overstocking issues are concerned. The reason > I stress this so much is overstocking or keeping fish in undersized tanks > are the primary reasons for water quality issues, fish health issues, etc. > > Are the angelfish a mated pair? > > Do you have your bamboo plants submerged or in a hang-on-side type planter? > I have one and the research I did says that only the bottom few inches of > the stalk should be submerged but I have read other forum posts from folks > that said they had the entire stalks submerged but these plants can grow > quite tall... mine is about 3' tall now... so I'm not quite sure how they > would live in a covered tank. I guess if the tank was uncovered and the > stalks were in the corners or otherwise supported, they may be OK in > aquaria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of dragula707 > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:04 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] hello group > > my name is Raven and i have a 55 gallon freshwater tank which includes, > 3 buenos aries terras, 4 black tetras 2 green severums, 2 angelfish 4 > danioms, 4 mickymouse platyes, 5 bamboo plants, 2 razor plants, and my tank > is set up as an egyptian set, i also have 1 placty, and 2 afarican frogs, > sorry my spelling is bad > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 > Tested on: 10/1/2008 1:33:24 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30787	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: dropsy

Melafix is not nearly strong enough to deal with something like HITH-HLLE disease. It's OK for treating minor things like fin rot and to help in healing of other injuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming, proper filter maintenance, etc., to bring the water quality back into excellent condition will also do just as much so a fishes own immune system can catch up to minor ailments. The scale loss issue could be a result of the Ick. In advanced cases of Ick, fish will lose scales. Other parasites can also cause scale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out (what you called pine coning) could be scales that are coming loose and may fall off also. The wasting of the fish (getting thin, etc.) could mean an internal digestive tract parasite that is eating all of the food that the goldfish is consuming instead of the digested food making it into the goldfish as nutrition. Were your goldfish sick prior to introducing the ID shark/catfish? I'm wondering if it was sick... well obviously it was since it has possible HITH... so it could have introduced a new parasite/bacteria into your goldfish tank. If your fish do not make it, which unfortunately may happen, you should probably either break down and clean the entire tank, gravel, filter system, etc., using a high salt water-like paste and/or hydrogen peroxide. Another thing would be to empty all of the water and vacuum the gravel while doing so. Then fill it with a very strong salt water solution.. 1-2 tablespoons per gallon... with your filter system running which would kill off everything, then gravel vacuum the tank again until empty, refill with fresh water and gravel vaccum it again. Then refill with fresh water and then do a "Fishless Cycle" to prepare the tank for fish again and while you are fishless cycling, you could start looking around at other fish that would work out in your tank and start planning things in the next few weeks after starting the fishless cycling so you will be ready to make your new fish purchases once the fishless cycle has completed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] dropsy The smaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming this morning and then just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It was a white goldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but you could see its gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummy was tiny compared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventually the gasps became smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing. I was treating for ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking at the smaller one before he died and he is now back into hiding. They had both been hiding for a couple of days. He still has the normal body size but his fins are looking a little wierd as well. I did check out the dead one before disposing of it. It looked like the back half of his scales were gone. I figure this is from the other goldfish picking it them. I thought the hole in the catfish's head was a sore but it wasnt going away even with the melafix. It looks alot like the photos, but there is only one hole. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] dropsy So the scales are sticking out like a pinecone but the goldfish aren'tbloated? That's not dropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish from theside and top so we can get a better idea of what you are seeing? Remind meof what you first posted about your fish. I kind of remember it being Ichbut I'm not positive since some of the threads got pretty convoluted. Giveme a short history on the fish/tank. I have some ideas of what you could beseeing but I want a refresher about your tanks before throwing things out.As far as the injury to the catfish (ID shark), it could simply be that.From what I remember, you rescued this fish from a cichlid tank so it mayhave been picked on by the cichlids. ID sharks/catfish are not armored likemany of the plecos that are more commonly kept in cichlid tanks since theyare more able to fight back and fend for themselves in an often aggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven't been reading a lot about HITH in the past couple of years, sinceKatrina made me cut back the number of tanks that I have, and I've never hadto personally deal with it but it's not just an isolated "hole" like thatcaused from an injury and isn't a festering type of hole/injury either.It's more like a series of pitting in the head, sensory pits and lateralline area and more often afflicting larger breeds of cichlids. Many surmise(and I mostly agree) that it's related to diet and water quality issues thataffect many larger fish species which are the ones most likely to be kept inundersized tanks so they live their lives in lesser water quality comparedto smaller fish and are not fed proper diets because feeding them the amountof food they should be fed would only make the water quality issues evenworse. It's common with Oscars which are very BIG fish and unfortunatelymany people keep them in tanks as small as 55G tanks. I think a 14" fish that is an able bodied swimmer that needs a lot ofprotein in their diets needs MUCH MORE than a 55G tank. It's also why Irecommend the minimum tank size as 55G for two fancy goldfish and even thatis the bare minimum size but at least goldfish do not need as much proteinin their diets. Protein rich diets cause much more water quality issueswhen compared to veggie based diets.Here's a couple of long articles I have in my favorites folder and you'llsee there is still much to be learned about this disease. A Google Scholarsearch might find more recent and more definitive studies since both ofthese articles are a couple of years old and based on the best sciencereferences available at the time they were written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wor ldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyI assumed dropsy because of the pine cone shaped he has this morning butafter reading more he is not bloted, instead he is super skinny this morningit pretty well happened over night. He is still breathing but is pretty wellbeing pushed around by the flow of water and picked at by my other goldfish.The other goldfish is starting to get his scales pulling off a little aswell but is still swimming. the hold inthe head with the catfish is justthat, a hold in the side of his head. at first I thought it was just a soreso I never mentioned anything but then started reading for the goldfish andcame upon that.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyHow did you come to the conclusion it was dropsy for the goldfish andHITHfor the ID Shark (catfish)? Those are both rather rare diseases. I donotrecall seeing any posts by you with any problems or symptoms relatedtoeither of these diseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:51 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] dropsySo Iwoke up this morning and my smaller goldfish has dropsy. I new somthingwaswrong but couldnt figure out what. I am assuming my other has it as wellbuthave not been able to find him yet :-(. ALso my id shark has hole inthehead. So, I guess I will just wait out these fish surely it cannot bemuchlonger before IT happens. Once it does, do I recycle the tank or justdowater changes?Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwithlife as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobablywould have run scared the other way. However, you always find thestrengthto meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:49:09 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread (wasRe: Todays water) (that will keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... you gotit right on the money with your filtration, carbon,etc.I would wait onadding plants until all of the fish are healthy andyou'vedone enough PWC'sto have removed the majority of the salt. Then,whenbuying your plants, donot add the plants to the tank until you'vecleanedthem and quarantined themto make sure they are snail free anddisease free.To keep the plants "fed"while in quarantine, you can justremove some ofthe tank water with thehigher nitrates, phosphates, etc. anduse that forthe plants. You can use aclean 5G bucket for the plantsquarantine periodand place it near a windowbut not in direct sun so theyget enoughlighting. Here's a couple ofthreads/articles on sanitizing plantsthat I have inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http: //www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http ://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> <myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http:/ /www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http:/ /www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> ><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishf orums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> > > VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday,September 30, 2008 9:24 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny, this wasnt me, Sarah. lol I did get a new heaterthough:-) Itsa submersiable with a thermostat. My fishes will love metonight. Ialsotook your advice on your blog about doing surgery on mymarineland200filter cartridge. This way I can still filter the water even ifit hasmedsin it. I will just need to pick up some carbon to filter out themedswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to the pet store for it tomorrow, andwouldalsolike some new plants. Should I wait to add any and do somemorewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more? Or should theybefine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life asitcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably wouldhaverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:16:58 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterFirstIwant to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying toSarahHuss inthisthread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in thesame?Or maybeyouswitched email accounts since the Hotmail account waslosingall oftheformatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so Idon'thavetoaddress you as "Hey You!" LOLIt's interesting that the nitratescamedownalthough it could just be theJungle test strips not being asaccurate butifyou did use Prime, then itcould possibly have an effect onthe nitratelevelas well.I think you should redo the baseline test and useyour API testkitandJungle test strips just so you can see how theycompare.Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showedthe teststripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Is the GH coming outas 25degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0 degrees after 24hours? Ifso, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers added by yourutility that isgiving afalse positive right out thetap, then once it'sexposed to air/light,itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of the water. Thismeans you really donothave to worry about it IMOas it will not likelyaffect your waterparametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH, you looknear perfect at150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go down in yourtank as well due tothe ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish, etc.) ofthe tank using up thecarbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.It seems thatall of your tests startedoutreally high and then went downto more normallevels. I'm not sure if it'sdueto buffers in the tap wateror the Jungletest strips. If you canduplicatethe test using API's testkits for ammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH, KHand GH, Ithink you would getmore consistentnumbers but I think your water isfine forthe majority offish outthere.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listedonthe right side under Archives- Year, Monthand underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> OnBehalf Of WilliamJ.ScottSent:Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did a water base linelike you suggested and thereadingsare as followsusing Jungle test strips.Outof tap24hrs48hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRA TE201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH (Alkalinity) 300150150PH7.27.87.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48hrs(temptakenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were nottaken.Myinitial email was because of high KH readings. (Using APIliquidtestmedia). 26 dropsto turn water from blue to green. (Date onbottle0708).Can you let me knowhow to proceed from here? I just did 25%waterchangesin all my tanks usingonly Prime in the water, and then again 3dayslater.A big difference inreadings. Also, the fish seemed to be moreactive,andcolors got moreintense.Thanks,Bill ScottSo.California.-------OriginalMessage-------From:Lenny V. aka GoldLennyDate:9/30/2008 10:35:15AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam]RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's good thatyour ammonia is stillat0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate test kitso you will knowwhenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to do theirjob. For the longrun,you will use your nitratetest far more often than theammonia andnitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of the tests thatdeterminehowoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWC you needto dotokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH asmyprimarytests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.If you arerefillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe 48 hourbaselinetest onthat water as well so you can know what yourstarting point isgoingto be.While they might call it "spring water", allit is going to beisfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn't drill downinto anunderwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place. ;-)If at somepoint inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecost starts toaddup,there are under-sink filter systems that will do thesame thing.I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhen I did rescueaBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe water from mytap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwater being changedandIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I was able to setupa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, I went backtousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do you have on yourtank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat. The bulbsarecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they doputoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may be an option.Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in atnightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with the tank wrappedinablanket. That would atleast give the fish some dark time whilenotallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want a heater forthetropicalfish.If you read over theMongabayprofile><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus. html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > > > > >ontheIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervousfishwithpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to getveryBIGso itcould be that it is just looking for more food.Catfishareoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foragingforfood. Idonot see it mentioned in that profile but catfish arequiteoftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Google search onthescientificname toread up more on it.Lenny VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >(Links to articles referencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year, Month andunderLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 2008 11:52 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 forammonia not NO3. I haventgottenmytest for that yet. So I am not have anyammonia since I put thestresscoatin. That was last week and I havent had aproblem since. I havedecidedtouse spring water. I started working at goodol' wally world so Iwilljusttake my big bottles and fill them after work.This way I know thatthewaterisnt my problem and it's something to do withthe bacteria in mytank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently it was turneddown very far. Ikickeditup this morning when I noticed it but now its notwanting to turn on,soit'sgoing back to the store when I get a chance.Hopefully I get toitsoon,because it gets cold in our house at night. Wouldit mess with thefishmoreif I just left the light on to help keep its heatuntil I getaworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, Inever see himsleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night. Iwork nights and heisstill likethis when I get home. Is this normalbehaviour for them, or doIjust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee, butyoujust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of what wastobe, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, you alwaysfindthe strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep 2008 11:37:58-0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. Iforgot to mention. Keepat least the "pinchper 10G" of saltlevelin your tankwhile you are stillhaving nitrite (NO2-)issues. Youstillhave more than thatlevel right nowsince you had addedfourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC soyou still havemore thantwotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate(NO3-) level isstill 0whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need totest yourammonia tomakesure you are not havingan ammonia spike aswell.LennyVasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links toarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Tuesday, September 30, 200810:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLi fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]TodayswaterIfilled up the tanktoday (it was getting low) I added 6.6gallons tothe35gallon tank so its asfull as it should be. I retested waterandherearetodays stats (sundays statsin these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No30(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heaterwasnt working this morningI put4tablespoons in the tank last week (followthe box directions butwith less)Ihadsince taken and did a 40% water changeand did not addanymore salt.Iknowmytank is overstocked. I didnt plan ongetting the shark, it wasarescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do plan ongetting rid of it, but asofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it with allof the health issues.Asfor meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there right now(as long as thecarbon hastakenitall out) I was using quick cure for the ichwhich seemsto begoneandmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to beworking.Ihaveheardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thoughtaboutgettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email.I hadnoticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try toreplyfromyahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > :Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on:10/1/2008 10:54:44 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 11:23:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 12:25:25 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 Tested on: 10/1/2008 12:55:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 Tested on: 10/1/2008 6:03:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30788	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: How to move my plec from one established tank to a larger establ

I always match the pH when adding new fish. I do it during the quarantine starting with a matching pH and changing it over to my pH over the course of three weeks. It may not be 100% necessary, but it makes me feel I’m doing my best for the fish. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How to move my plec from one established tank to a larger established tank? I need to move my plec to a bigger, well established tank. Yesterday, while making a water change for the smaller platy tank. I figured I should acclimate him to the water of the tank to which he's going. I added some "old" water to a spare tank, then put the plec in it by himself; I also added some clean water to this temporary tank. There are about 3 gallons in it now, and the water looks pretty dingy. My plan was to remove some water from the larger ciclid tank (to which he is going) and gradually, over the course of a few days, add it to his temporary tank so that he gets used to the water. It occurs to me that we all put new fish in their new homes without acclimating them to the new water (except for temp) -- am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30789	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Base line test

You can order teh API tests online. Petsmart.com or Doctors Foster and Smith, or Marineland, ought to have them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Scott" <w.j.scott@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Base line test Hi Lenny, Sorry for the confusion. No I'm not Sarah. I just could not find my thread so I just replied to the first one on my e mail server. The reason I used the Jungle test strips, was because it was all I could find. They did not have any more API test kits. With 37 tanks, the dip strips don't last me long, especially testing before & 12 hrs after water changes. I will be going to metropolitan Los Angeles this weekend, and should be able to pick up an API master test kit. I will do a new base line test next Monday. Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 7:17:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water First I want to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying to Sarah Huss in this thread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in the same? Or maybe you switched email accounts since the Hotmail account was losing all of the formatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so I don't have to address you as "Hey You!" LOL It's interesting that the nitrates came down although it could just be the Jungle test strips not being as accurate but if you did use Prime, then it could possibly have an effect on the nitrate level as well. I think you should redo the baseline test and use your API test kit and Jungle test strips just so you can see how they compare. My previous comparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showed the test strips were very inconsistent in their readings. Is the GH coming out as 25 degrees of GH out the tap and then going down to 0 degrees after 24 hours? If so, then it's likely one or more of the buffers added by your utility that is giving a false positive right out the tap, then once it's exposed to air/light, it breaks down and/or dissipates out of the water. This means you really do not have to worry about it IMO as it will not likely affect your water parameters in your tank with 25% PWC's. For the KH, you look near perfect at 150ppm (apx. 8 dKH). This will constantly go down in your tank as well due to the ecology (bacteria, critters, plants, fish, etc.) of the tank using up the carbonates as part of their life cycles. It seems that all of your tests started out really high and then went down to more normal levels. I'm not sure if it's due to buffers in the tap water or the Jungle test strips. If you can duplicate the test using API's test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, I think you would get more consistent numbers but I think your water is fine for the majority of fish out there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water Hi Lenny, I did a water base line like you suggested and the readings are as follows using Jungle test strips. Out of tap 24 hrs 48 hrs ---------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- NITRATE 20 10 10 NITRITE .5 0 0 GH 25 0 0 TOTAL CHLORINE 0 0 0 KH (Alkalinity) 300 150 150 PH 7.2 7.8 7.2 Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs (temp taken with digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken. My initial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquid test media). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle 0708). Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% water changes in all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 days later. A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active, and colors got more intense. Thanks, Bill Scott So. California. -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water OK. That's good that your ammonia is still at 0.0ppm. You really need to get that Nitrate test kit so you will know when your nitrite eating bacteria are starting to do their job. For the long run, you will use your nitrate test far more often than the ammonia and nitrite tests. Your nitrate test kit will be one of the tests that determine how often you need to do your PWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do to keep the water quality in good shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primary tests in establishing my routines on my tanks. If you are refilling your bottles at one of those machines, you want to do the 48 hour baseline test on that water as well so you can know what your starting point is going to be. While they might call it "spring water", all it is going to be is filtered tap water. I'm betting they didn't drill down into an underwater spring before putting the vending machine in place. ;-) If at some point in the future, you decide that is an inconvenience or the cost starts to add up, there are under-sink filter systems that will do the same thing. I've never worried about filtering my water before although when I did rescue a Betta after Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him to the water from my tap, but with the Pur water filter on since it wasn't much water being changed and I was doing daily 25% changes on his small vase until I was able to set up a 10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10G tank, I went back to using regular tap water for him. What kind of light do you have on your tank? If it's fluorescent, it does not put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are cool to the touch even when lit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put out lots of heat so if you do not have a heater, that may be an option. You could also wrap the tank in a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night and maybe only turn out the lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in a blanket. That would at least give the fish some dark time while not allowing the tank temp to drop down. You definitely want a heater for the tropical fish. If you read over the Mongabay profile http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> on the ID Shark (actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish with poor eyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIG so it could be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish are often scavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. I do not see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite often nocturnal but possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientific name to read up more on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:52 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water My PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten my test for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coat in. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided to use spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will just take my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the water isnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank. I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kicked it up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, so it's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to it soon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with the fish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get a working heater again? Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems like he is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still like this when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have a hyperactive fish? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water Oops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of salt levelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. You stillhave more than that level right now since you had added four tablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than two tablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 which means your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to make sure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Todays waterI filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here aretodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8 (9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat for future use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group ratherthan my email.Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:16:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30790	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: New to Aquatic life list

Hi all. I’m new here. My name is Lisa. I have two tanks. Both small. One houses a betta on a permanent basis. When one dies, another takes his place. And a larger 12 inch community tank which houses about three zebra danios, a white cloud and about five golden madakas.   My question is. Can I add a Khuli loach? The tank is unheated and unfiltered. But the water is changed by 90% every week. Are Khuli loaches capable of surviving in room temp water?   Thanks Lisa   Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: New to Aquatic life list

Hi Lisa and welcome to the group. I'm sorry but your 12" tank, presuming it's only around 5-6 gallons, isn't big enough for the fish you have already so please do not add another fish. If your tank was bigger, it would be better to fill out the schools of ZD's and WCMM's but you don't have enough room for that either. I know the Medakas (ricefish - Oryzias latipes) don't mind the unfiltered tank but the ZD's and WCMM's prefer to be in moving water so they would like the filtration if you can add one to the tank. The filtration will also help the water quality between PWC's (partial water changes) and you wouldn't have to do such large water changes each time which would keep the water parameters from changing too much each time you do the large water change. Is your tank planted? If you added some live plants, maybe even something simple like a few stalks of Anacharis, that would help the ecology of the tank as well. The Kuhli Loach grows to 4" and using the 6X rule, their tank should be at least 24" but a single fish could probably do OK in a planted 10G tank although they would be much better off in a group in at least a 20G. Most loaches prefer to be in shoals of five or more which is another reason to NOT get just one. Here are a few reputable profiles on them should you choose to get a bigger tank and keep them. In answer to your question about water temps, a tropical temp of 78F would be the best temp for them since they are not cool water fish like the others in your tank. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangio_kuhlii.html http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/loaches/kuhliloach.html http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 6:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to Aquatic life list Hi all. I'm new here. My name is Lisa. I have two tanks. Both small. One houses a betta on a permanent basis. When one dies, another takes his place. And a larger 12 inch community tank which houses about three zebra danios, a white cloud and about five golden madakas. My question is. Can I add a Khuli loach? The tank is unheated and unfiltered. But the water is changed by 90% every week. Are Khuli loaches capable of surviving in room temp water? Thanks Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 Tested on: 10/1/2008 8:04:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30792	From: Nedra	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal/Nedra

Thanks everyone! Well, "the best laid plans of mice and men" ... my benefactor turned the bio-filter off two weeks ago; so all is lost, right? I can't imagine that the stench wouldn't be overwhelming. Should I now sterilize the gravel or just rinse it off with the garden hose? But, at least I have a 55 gal tank set up for the price of picking it up! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Use a test kit to determine if your idea worked. > > Harry > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Nedra <terrierlover2002@...> wrote: > From: Nedra <terrierlover2002@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up a 55 gal > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 6:00 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone! > > > > This is a used tank and I'll be tearing it down and setting it up > > again (hopefully the same day). I plan to take the gravel out and > > transport it in buckets - no rinsing. I'll probably rinse the tank > > out with water only - might have to scrape the sides if it has lime or > > algae built up. But thought I could minimize or eliminate the cycle > > time if I use the existing gravel and am very careful with the bio > > filter during transport. > > > > What are your thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30793	From: Lisa	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: New to Aquatic life list

Thanks. yeah i thought i'd just check before i did buy any loaches. The 12inch tank has plastic and silk plants, and is not big enough for a filter. Hence the 90% PWC each week It is usually home to a betta. And after the GM ZD and WCMM go, i will be getting another male betta. Thanks for the quick reply. Cheers Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30794	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Base line test

Wouldn't get here any faster than me picking one up this weekend, and I can check the expiration date personally. Also don't have to pay shipping. Bill -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 10/1/2008 4:26:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Base line test You can order teh API tests online. Petsmart.com or Doctors Foster and Smith, or Marineland, ought to have them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Scott" <w.j.scott@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Base line test Hi Lenny, Sorry for the confusion. No I'm not Sarah. I just could not find my thread so I just replied to the first one on my e mail server. The reason I used the Jungle test strips, was because it was all I could find. They did not have any more API test kits. With 37 tanks, the dip strips don't last me long, especially testing before & 12 hrs after water changes. I will be going to metropolitan Los Angeles this weekend, and should be able to pick up an API master test kit. I will do a new base line test next Monday. Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 7:17:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water First I want to state that I'm a little confused. I was replying to Sarah Huss in this thread and now it's Bill Scott. Are you all one in the same? Or maybe you switched email accounts since the Hotmail account was losing all of the formatting on prior emails in the thread. Let me know so I don't have to address you as "Hey You!" LOL It's interesting that the nitrates came down although it could just be the Jungle test strips not being as accurate but if you did use Prime, then it could possibly have an effect on the nitrate level as well. I think you should redo the baseline test and use your API test kit and Jungle test strips just so you can see how they compare. My previous comparison tests with Mardel brand test strips showed the test strips were very inconsistent in their readings. Is the GH coming out as 25 degrees of GH out the tap and then going down to 0 degrees after 24 hours? If so, then it's likely one or more of the buffers added by your utility that is giving a false positive right out the tap, then once it's exposed to air/light, it breaks down and/or dissipates out of the water. This means you really do not have to worry about it IMO as it will not likely affect your water parameters in your tank with 25% PWC's. For the KH, you look near perfect at 150ppm (apx. 8 dKH). This will constantly go down in your tank as well due to the ecology (bacteria, critters, plants, fish, etc.) of the tank using up the carbonates as part of their life cycles. It seems that all of your tests started out really high and then went down to more normal levels. I'm not sure if it's due to buffers in the tap water or the Jungle test strips. If you can duplicate the test using API's test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and GH, I think you would get more consistent numbers but I think your water is fine for the majority of fish out there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays water Hi Lenny, I did a water base line like you suggested and the readings are as follows using Jungle test strips. Out of tap 24 hrs 48 hrs ---------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- NITRATE 20 10 10 NITRITE .5 0 0 GH 25 0 0 TOTAL CHLORINE 0 0 0 KH (Alkalinity) 300 150 150 PH 7.2 7.8 7.2 Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at 48 hrs (temp taken with digital thermometer) Ammonia readings were not taken. My initial e mail was because of high KH readings. (Using API liquid test media). 26 drops to turn water from blue to green. (Date on bottle 0708). Can you let me know how to proceed from here? I just did 25% water changes in all my tanks using only Prime in the water, and then again 3 days later. A big difference in readings. Also, the fish seemed to be more active, and colors got more intense. Thanks, Bill Scott So. California. -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2008 10:35:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water OK. That's good that your ammonia is still at 0.0ppm. You really need to get that Nitrate test kit so you will know when your nitrite eating bacteria are starting to do their job. For the long run, you will use your nitrate test far more often than the ammonia and nitrite tests. Your nitrate test kit will be one of the tests that determine how often you need to do your PWC's and what percentage PWC you need to do to keep the water quality in good shape. I use nitrate, pH and KH as my primary tests in establishing my routines on my tanks. If you are refilling your bottles at one of those machines, you want to do the 48 hour baseline test on that water as well so you can know what your starting point is going to be. While they might call it "spring water", all it is going to be is filtered tap water. I'm betting they didn't drill down into an underwater spring before putting the vending machine in place. ;-) If at some point in the future, you decide that is an inconvenience or the cost starts to add up, there are under-sink filter systems that will do the same thing. I've never worried about filtering my water before although when I did rescue a Betta after Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him to the water from my tap, but with the Pur water filter on since it wasn't much water being changed and I was doing daily 25% changes on his small vase until I was able to set up a 10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10G tank, I went back to using regular tap water for him. What kind of light do you have on your tank? If it's fluorescent, it does not put out much, if any heat. The bulbs are cool to the touch even when lit. If it's an incandescent bulb, they do put out lots of heat so if you do not have a heater, that may be an option. You could also wrap the tank in a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat in at night and maybe only turn out the lights for four hours with the tank wrapped in a blanket. That would at least give the fish some dark time while not allowing the tank temp to drop down. You definitely want a heater for the tropical fish. If you read over the Mongabay profile http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> on the ID Shark (actually a catfish), you'll see that they are very nervous fish with poor eyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed to get very BIG so it could be that it is just looking for more food. Catfish are often scavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of time foraging for food. I do not see it mentioned in that profile but catfish are quite often nocturnal but possibly not for this one. Do a Google search on the scientific name to read up more on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:52 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water My PH was 8, I meant to type NH3 for ammonia not NO3. I havent gotten my test for that yet. So I am not have any ammonia since I put the stress coat in. That was last week and I havent had a problem since. I have decided to use spring water. I started working at good ol' wally world so I will just take my big bottles and fill them after work. This way I know that the water isnt my problem and it's something to do with the bacteria in my tank. I just bought a heater but apparently it was turned down very far. I kicked it up this morning when I noticed it but now its not wanting to turn on, so it's going back to the store when I get a chance. Hopefully I get to it soon, because it gets cold in our house at night. Would it mess with the fish more if I just left the light on to help keep its heat until I get a working heater again? Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark, I never see him sleep. It seems like he is always swimming, even at night. I work nights and he is still like this when I get home. Is this normal behaviour for them, or do I just have a hyperactive fish? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:37:58 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Todays water Oops.. I forgot to mention. Keep at least the "pinch per 10G" of salt levelin your tank while you are still having nitrite (NO2-) issues. You stillhave more than that level right now since you had added four tablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC so you still have more than two tablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate (NO3-) level is still 0 which means your tank is notcycling yet. You need to test your ammonia to make sure you are not havingan ammonia spike as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Todays waterI filled up the tank today (it was getting low) I added 6.6 gallons to the35 gallon tank so its as full as it should be. I retested water and here aretodays stats (sundays stats in these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8 (1.6)No3 0 (0)GH 8 (9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heater wasnt working this morningI put 4 table spoons in the tank last week (follow the box directions butwith less) I had since taken and did a 40% water change and did not addanymore salt.I know my tank is overstocked. I didnt plan on getting the shark, it was arescue shark from a ciclid tank. I do plan on getting rid of it, but as ofright now I cannot find anyone to take it with all of the health issues.As for meds, I have nothing but salt in there right now (as long as thecarbon has taken it all out) I was using quick cure for the ich which seemsto be gone and melafix for the other issues but it didnt seem to be working.I have heard great things about Mardel Maracyn Two and thought about gettingthat for future use.On the side note, I use hotmail for my email. I had noticed that too and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will try to reply from yahoos group ratherthan my email.Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080930-0, 09/30/2008 Tested on: 9/30/2008 9:16:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30795	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/1/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 gal/Nedra

Were you ever able to learn anything about the history of the tank? Was it diseased or had unexplained fish deaths? Yes, with the filter turned off, more than likely any of the good nitrifying bacteria have died since they need high O2 levels and stagnant water does not usually have high O2 levels unless there were live plants and sufficient lighting. If the tank was diseased or had unexplained fish deaths... and possibly even now that it has sat stagnant, I would be more inclined to doing a thorough cleaning. Fill the tank with hot water, add one tablespoon of salt per gallon (or a 1 pound box for 50 cents would be sufficient) and run the filter for a couple of hours. The high salt level will kill off any bacteria and parasites that might be surviving in the nooks and crannies of the filter system. Then empty the tank. Yes, you can rinse the gravel off in a colander with a hose but then go one step further and get a large pot of water boiling, put your filter media in the boiling water to make sure any nasties are killed off. Remove the filter media and put the gravel in it and return it to a boil. That will kill off any nasties in the microscopic crevices in the gravel that the salt water may have missed. Use vinegar to clean any hard water buildup off of the empty tank. Follow-up with using Hydrogen Peroxide to clean the corners of the tank and that should pretty much have everything disinfected. If you have another healthy tank up and running, then you can use some of the filter media and a handful of the gravel from that tank in your newly cleaned filter system to jump start the cycling of the new filter. How much filter media you use from the existing tank would depend on what percentage of fish you will be moving from the existing tank to the new tank. Oh yeah.. to answer your comment about the stench? Yes, it will likely stink to high Heaven. I turned off one of my filter systems during Hurricane Gustav since I was only running one filter system on each tank off of my generator and backup battery systems. Even after only a couple of days, when I opened up the canister filter to clean it out, it nearly knocked me out of my shoes. And I even did filter maintenance on that filter prior to the hurricane but it was still pretty funky due to the stagnant water, fish poop and dead bacteria. I had to open the windows in my house to let the stench out. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up a 55 gal/Nedra Thanks everyone! Well, "the best laid plans of mice and men" ... my benefactor turned the bio-filter off two weeks ago; so all is lost, right? I can't imagine that the stench wouldn't be overwhelming. Should I now sterilize the gravel or just rinse it off with the garden hose? But, at least I have a 55 gal tank set up for the price of picking it up! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Use a test kit to determine if your idea worked. > > Harry > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Nedra <terrierlover2002@...> wrote: > From: Nedra <terrierlover2002@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up a 55 gal > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 6:00 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone! > > > > This is a used tank and I'll be tearing it down and setting it up > > again (hopefully the same day). I plan to take the gravel out and > > transport it in buckets - no rinsing. I'll probably rinse the tank > > out with water only - might have to scrape the sides if it has lime or > > algae built up. But thought I could minimize or eliminate the cycle > > time if I use the existing gravel and am very careful with the bio > > filter during transport. > > > > What are your thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 Tested on: 10/1/2008 8:33:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008 Tested on: 10/2/2008 1:32:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30796	From: greychildren	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: hi new to the group

Hi all new to this group.. I'm almost new to the hobby. but i run two set ups. 40g 2 sword tails, 2 platies, 5 zebra danios, 5 head and tail tetras, 2 Cory cats, 2 clown loaches, 3 neon tetras, 3 serpa tetras natural plants amazon sword java fern palms and some caribias( hope i spelled that rite!) 20g jelly bean parrot. I do not run CO2 on my tank do to fears of ph drops. hope to hear from you all..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30798	From: Chris	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: My guppies scavenging

Are guppies supposed to come to the surface when being fed, or do they catch what falls on the way down pick up what hits the gravel. Is that normal guppy behavior? I have 5 sword tails that seem to dominate the top of the tank where the plants aren't covering the water line. It this point I don't really need scavenger fish because the guppies get about all of the fallen food. Is this normal behavior for guppies? Am I underfeeding and the guppies are forced to pick at the gravel? Should I spread the food out more when I drop it in the tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30799	From: Chris	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Another Green Water Question

My fish didn't think they were being fed enough so they started tearing apart the aquarium plants that I recently put in the tank. I came home and found my water green and the filter intake clogged with shredded plant pieces. Unless I'm wrong I'm 100% certain that my water is colored green by chlorophyll and not algae an algae bloom cuz it wasn't green when I left home and hasn't gotten any greener over the last 24hrs. Is this something I can leave alone?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30800	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: My guppies scavenging

My guppies feed from the top of the tank too, I think this is normal. My tank contains barbs, guppies, mollies and 1 swordtail and they all scavenge when fed, the only two fish I have in my tropical tank that dont top feed are corydoras. «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] My guppies scavenging Are guppies supposed to come to the surface when being fed, or do they catch what falls on the way down pick up what hits the gravel. Is that normal guppy behavior? I have 5 sword tails that seem to dominate the top of the tank where the plants aren't covering the water line. It this point I don't really need scavenger fish because the guppies get about all of the fallen food. Is this normal behavior for guppies? Am I underfeeding and the guppies are forced to pick at the gravel? Should I spread the food out more when I drop it in the tank? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30801	From: Chris	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: My guppies scavenging

Then I guess I shouldn't worry. Since my fish are picking the bottom of the tank clean, should I still introduce scavenger fish like Coreys?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30802	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: My guppies scavenging

approve </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30803	From: Alina	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Setting up 10 gal ....

Hi, Mommy duties never end...but as part of my son's Kindergarten class projects we're setting up the teacher's 10 gal tank. It's all set and ready to go, except we are adding the starter fish today. I am new to this, and only recently set up my own 38-gal at home, which, despite a few missteps, seems to be doing really well. But with smaller, less room for error, right? So can I start a 10-gal with two platies or should I go with the ever-hardy tetras? Are two fish too many for a 10 gal? Other suggestions are greatly appreciated. And remember the environment....handsy Kindergartners. We'll be keeping it fun but simple. Thanks alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30804	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: water stats

I finally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todays stats: no3+ 10 ppm no2- 5 ppm GH 100 ppm chlorine 0 ppm KH 300 ppm PH 8 Temp: 77 I put in the prime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fish will not make it. I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally getting my 10 gallon for a hospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from my smallest to cycle it and if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treat with maracyn-two until something changes. I think i've learned my lesson about taking rescue fish. sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] dropsy Melafix is not nearly strong enough to deal with something like HITH-HLLEdisease. It's OK for treating minor things like fin rot and to help inhealing of other injuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's, gravelvacuuming, proper filter maintenance, etc., to bring the water quality backinto excellent condition will also do just as much so a fishes own immunesystem can catch up to minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be a result of the Ick. In advanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Other parasites can also cause scale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out (what you called pine coning) could bescales that are coming loose and may fall off also. The wasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean an internal digestive tract parasite that iseating all of the food that the goldfish is consuming instead of thedigested food making it into the goldfish as nutrition.Were your goldfish sick prior to introducing the ID shark/catfish? I'mwondering if it was sick... well obviously it was since it has possibleHITH... so it could have introduced a new parasite/bacteria into yourgoldfish tank.If your fish do not make it, which unfortunately may happen, you shouldprobably either break down and clean the entire tank, gravel, filter system,etc., using a high salt water-like paste and/or hydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be to empty all of the water and vacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it with a very strong salt water solution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with your filter system running which would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum the tank again until empty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again. Then refill with fresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare the tank for fish again and while you arefishless cycling, you could start looking around at other fish that wouldwork out in your tank and start planning things in the next few weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling so you will be ready to make your new fishpurchases once the fishless cycle has completed.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyThe smaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming this morningand then just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It was a whitegoldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but you could seeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummy was tinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventually the gaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.I was treating for ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking atthe smaller one before he died and he is now back into hiding. They had bothbeen hiding for a couple of days. He still has the normal body size but hisfins are looking a little wierd as well. I did check out the dead one beforedisposing of it. It looked like the back half of his scales were gone. Ifigure this is from the other goldfish picking it them.I thought the hole in the catfish's head was a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with the melafix. It looks alot like the photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsySo the scales are sticking out like a pinecone but the goldfisharen'tbloated? That's not dropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish fromtheside and top so we can get a better idea of what you are seeing? Remindmeof what you first posted about your fish. I kind of remember it beingIchbut I'm not positive since some of the threads got pretty convoluted.Giveme a short history on the fish/tank. I have some ideas of what you couldbeseeing but I want a refresher about your tanks before throwing thingsout.As far as the injury to the catfish (ID shark), it could simply bethat.From what I remember, you rescued this fish from a cichlid tank so itmayhave been picked on by the cichlids. ID sharks/catfish are not armoredlikemany of the plecos that are more commonly kept in cichlid tanks sincetheyare more able to fight back and fend for themselves in an oftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven't been reading a lot about HITH inthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina made me cut back the number of tanksthat I have, and I've never hadto personally deal with it but it's not justan isolated "hole" like thatcaused from an injury and isn't a festering typeof hole/injury either.It's more like a series of pitting in the head,sensory pits and lateralline area and more often afflicting larger breeds ofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostly agree) that it's related to diet andwater quality issues thataffect many larger fish species which are the onesmost likely to be kept inundersized tanks so they live their lives in lesserwater quality comparedto smaller fish and are not fed proper diets becausefeeding them the amountof food they should be fed would only make the waterquality issues evenworse. It's common with Oscars which are very BIG fishand unfortunatelymany people keep them in tanks as small as 55G tanks. Ithink a 14" fish that is an able bodied swimmer that needs a lot ofproteinin their diets needs MUCH MORE than a 55G tank. It's also why Irecommend theminimum tank size as 55G for two fancy goldfish and even thatis the bareminimum size but at least goldfish do not need as much proteinin theirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much more water quality issueswhen comparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple of long articles I have in myfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still much to be learned about thisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find more recent and more definitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple of years old and based onthe best sciencereferences available at the time they werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyIassumed dropsy because of the pine cone shaped he has this morning butafterreading more he is not bloted, instead he is super skinny this morningitpretty well happened over night. He is still breathing but is prettywellbeing pushed around by the flow of water and picked at by my othergoldfish.The other goldfish is starting to get his scales pulling off alittle aswell but is still swimming. the hold inthe head with the catfish isjustthat, a hold in the side of his head. at first I thought it was just asoreso I never mentioned anything but then started reading for the goldfishandcame upon that.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwith life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyHow did you come tothe conclusion it was dropsy for the goldfish andHITHfor the ID Shark(catfish)? Those are both rather rare diseases. I donotrecall seeing anyposts by you with any problems or symptoms relatedtoeither of thesediseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Linkstoarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives-Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:51 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] dropsySo Iwokeup this morning and my smaller goldfish has dropsy. I new somthingwaswrongbut couldnt figure out what. I am assuming my other has it as wellbuthavenot been able to find him yet :-(. ALso my id shark has hole inthehead. So,I guess I will just wait out these fish surely it cannot bemuchlonger beforeIT happens. Once it does, do I recycle the tank or justdowater changes?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwithlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobablywould have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrengthto meet whatever comes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:49:09 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread(wasRe: Todays water) (that will keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... yougotit right on the money with your filtration, carbon,etc.I would waitonadding plants until all of the fish are healthy andyou'vedone enoughPWC'sto have removed the majority of the salt. Then,whenbuying your plants,donot add the plants to the tank until you'vecleanedthem and quarantinedthemto make sure they are snail free anddisease free.To keep the plants"fed"while in quarantine, you can justremove some ofthe tank water withthehigher nitrates, phosphates, etc. anduse that forthe plants. You can useaclean 5G bucket for the plantsquarantine periodand place it near awindowbut not in direct sun so theyget enoughlighting. Here's a coupleofthreads/articles on sanitizing plantsthat I haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> > > VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday,September 30, 2008 9:24PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny, this wasnt me,Sarah. lol I did get a new heaterthough:-) Itsa submersiable with athermostat. My fishes will love metonight. Ialsotook your advice on yourblog about doing surgery on mymarineland200filter cartridge. This way I canstill filter the water even ifit hasmedsin it. I will just need to pick upsome carbon to filter out themedswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to the petstore for it tomorrow, andwouldalsolike some new plants. Should I wait toadd any and do somemorewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more? Orshould theybefine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwith life asitcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably wouldhaverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrength tomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:16:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterFirstIwant to state that I'm alittle confused. I was replying toSarahHuss inthisthread and now it's BillScott. Are you all one in thesame?Or maybeyouswitched email accounts sincethe Hotmail account waslosingall oftheformatting on prior emails in thethread. Let me know so Idon'thavetoaddress you as "Hey You!" LOLIt'sinteresting that the nitratescamedownalthough it could just be theJungletest strips not being asaccurate butifyou did use Prime, then itcouldpossibly have an effect onthe nitratelevelas well.I think you should redothe baseline test and useyour API testkitandJungle test strips just so youcan see how theycompare.Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brand teststrips showedthe teststripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Is the GHcoming outas 25degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0 degreesafter 24hours? Ifso, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers added byyourutility that isgiving afalse positive right out thetap, then onceit'sexposed to air/light,itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of the water.Thismeans you really donothave to worry about it IMOas it will notlikelyaffect your waterparametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH, youlooknear perfect at150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go down inyourtank as well due tothe ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish, etc.)ofthe tank using up thecarbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.It seemsthatall of your tests startedoutreally high and then went downto morenormallevels. I'm not sure if it'sdueto buffers in the tap wateror theJungletest strips. If you canduplicatethe test using API's testkits forammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH, KHand GH, Ithink you would getmoreconsistentnumbers but I think your water isfine forthe majority offishoutthere.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Linkstoarticles referenced above listedonthe right side under Archives- Year,Monthand underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>OnBehalf Of WilliamJ.ScottSent:Tuesday, September 30, 20084:57PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> :[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did a water base linelike yousuggested and thereadingsare as followsusing Jungle test strips.Outoftap24hrs48hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRATE201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH (Alkalinity)300150150PH7.27.87.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at48hrs(temptakenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readings werenottaken.Myinitial email was because of high KH readings. (UsingAPIliquidtestmedia). 26 dropsto turn water from blue to green. (Dateonbottle0708).Can you let me knowhow to proceed from here? I just did25%waterchangesin all my tanks usingonly Prime in the water, and then again3dayslater.A big difference inreadings. Also, the fish seemed to bemoreactive,andcolors got moreintense.Thanks,BillScottSo.California.-------OriginalMessage-------From:Lenny V. akaGoldLennyDate:9/30/2008 10:35:15AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam]RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's goodthatyour ammonia is stillat0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate testkitso you will knowwhenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to dotheirjob. For the longrun,you will use your nitratetest far more often thantheammonia andnitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of the teststhatdeterminehowoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWC youneedto dotokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH and KHasmyprimarytests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.If youarerefillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe 48hourbaselinetest onthat water as well so you can know what yourstartingpoint isgoingto be.While they might call it "spring water", allit is goingto beisfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn't drill downintoanunderwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place. ;-)If atsomepoint inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecost startstoaddup,there are under-sink filter systems that will do thesamething.I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhen I didrescueaBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe water frommytap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwater beingchangedandIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I was able tosetupa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, I wentbacktousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do you have onyourtank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat. Thebulbsarecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb, theydoputoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may be anoption.Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat inatnightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with the tankwrappedinablanket. That would atleast give the fish some dark timewhilenotallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want a heaterforthetropicalfish.If you read overtheMongabayprofile><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > > > >>ontheIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they are verynervousfishwithpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed togetveryBIGso itcould be that it is just looking for morefood.Catfishareoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of timeforagingforfood. Idonot see it mentioned in that profile but catfisharequiteoftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Google searchonthescientificname toread up more on it.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >(Links to articlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year, MonthandunderLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 2008 11:52AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3forammonia not NO3. I haventgottenmytest for that yet. So I am not haveanyammonia since I put thestresscoatin. That was last week and I havent hadaproblem since. I havedecidedtouse spring water. I started working atgoodol' wally world so Iwilljusttake my big bottles and fill them afterwork.This way I know thatthewaterisnt my problem and it's something to dowiththe bacteria in mytank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently it wasturneddown very far. Ikickeditup this morning when I noticed it but now itsnotwanting to turn on,soit'sgoing back to the store when I get achance.Hopefully I get toitsoon,because it gets cold in our house at night.Wouldit mess with thefishmoreif I just left the light on to help keep itsheatuntil I getaworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark,Inever see himsleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night. Iworknights and heisstill likethis when I get home. Is this normalbehaviour forthem, or doIjust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee,butyoujust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of whatwastobe, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, youalwaysfindthe strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FORTHEGREATERGOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep2008 11:37:58-0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. Iforgot tomention. Keepat least the "pinchper 10G" of saltlevelin your tankwhile youare stillhaving nitrite (NO2-)issues. Youstillhave more than thatlevel rightnowsince you had addedfourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC soyou stillhavemore thantwotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate(NO3-) levelisstill 0whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need totest yourammoniatomakesure you are not havingan ammonia spike aswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >> > (Links toarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Ofcheeseymicron03Sent:Tuesday, September 30,200810:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> :[AquaticLife]TodayswaterIfilled up the tanktoday (it was getting low) Iadded 6.6gallons tothe35gallon tank so its asfull as it should be. Iretested waterandherearetodays stats (sundays statsin these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8(1.6)No30(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heaterwasnt working this morningIput4tablespoons in the tank last week (followthe box directions butwithless)Ihadsince taken and did a 40% water changeand did not addanymoresalt.Iknowmytank is overstocked. I didnt plan ongetting the shark, itwasarescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do plan ongetting rid of it, butasofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it with allof the healthissues.Asfor meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there right now(as long asthecarbon hastakenitall out) I was using quick cure for the ichwhich seemstobegoneandmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seem tobeworking.Ihaveheardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Two andthoughtaboutgettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail for myemail.I hadnoticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will trytoreplyfromyahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah_____ avast!Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > >:Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Testedon:10/1/2008 10:54:44 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWILSoftware.[Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved]________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > :Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on:10/1/2008 11:23:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 12:25:25 PMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 12:55:24 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 6:03:15 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30805	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up 10 gal ....

If your tank is fully cycled (The Nitrogen Cycle), then you should take some of your filter media and a handful of your gravel (in a piece of stocking) and put that in the filter reservoir for the new tank. This will go a long way in cycling the newly set up tank. You may even instantly cycle the new tank if you can use enough of your own filter media. Just don't use all of yours or you would put your own tank into a mini-cycle. Remember to have the teacher test the new tank daily and if the ammonia or nitrites get over 1.0ppm, do one or more 25% PWC's to get those levels back below 1.0ppm. Hopefully, with a jumpstart from the filter media from a cycled tank, the new tank will be instantly cycled or mostly cycled. The nitrifying bacteria is capable of doubling it's colony size in 24-48 hours. Remember that each time more fish are added to the new tank, it will experience another mini-cycle. There is also the chance of introducing new pathogens to the tank if new fish are not quarantined. If it were me, I would use some of the filter media from your tank and then fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. During this time, you could help the teacher plan which fish they will be keeping and once the tank is fully cycled, you can add the 5-10 small fish. See my blog article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" for more info about which fish are OK for a 10G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up 10 gal .... Hi, Mommy duties never end...but as part of my son's Kindergarten class projects we're setting up the teacher's 10 gal tank. It's all set and ready to go, except we are adding the starter fish today. I am new to this, and only recently set up my own 38-gal at home, which, despite a few missteps, seems to be doing really well. But with smaller, less room for error, right? So can I start a 10-gal with two platies or should I go with the ever-hardy tetras? Are two fish too many for a 10 gal? Other suggestions are greatly appreciated. And remember the environment....handsy Kindergartners. We'll be keeping it fun but simple. Thanks alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081002-0, 10/02/2008 Tested on: 10/2/2008 1:11:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30806	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: My guppies scavenging

Many of our common Livebearers have up-turned mouths, indicating they are primarily top feeders, but as most fish can never eat enough to satisfy them they will scrounge the bottom for the crumbs after finding the pickings to be slim up top. Not to worry about this, its "typical" fish behavior. As long as you're feeding what they will clean up with 5 minutes or so, they're getting enough. Always a good idea though, to have scavengers to do a more thorough job of cleaning up, even if you have to do with a few less other fish to make room for them so as to not be crowded. The Cory's will get the food that fall down between the grains of gravel, which BTW should not have sharp edges for this reason. Otherwise, their barbels will be soon cut down to a stump. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > Then I guess I shouldn't worry. Since my fish are picking the bottom > of the tank clean, should I still introduce scavenger fish like Coreys? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30807	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats

Is the nitrite (NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm is WAY HIGH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] water stats I finally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todays stats: no3+ 10 ppm no2- 5 ppm GH 100 ppm chlorine 0 ppm KH 300 ppm PH 8 Temp: 77 I put in the prime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fish will not make it. I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally getting my 10 gallon for a hospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from my smallest to cycle it and if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treat with maracyn-two until something changes. I think i've learned my lesson about taking rescue fish. sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] dropsy Melafix is not nearly strong enough to deal with something like HITH-HLLEdisease. It's OK for treating minor things like fin rot and to help inhealing of other injuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's, gravelvacuuming, proper filter maintenance, etc., to bring the water quality backinto excellent condition will also do just as much so a fishes own immunesystem can catch up to minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be a result of the Ick. In advanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Other parasites can also cause scale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out (what you called pine coning) could bescales that are coming loose and may fall off also. The wasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean an internal digestive tract parasite that iseating all of the food that the goldfish is consuming instead of thedigested food making it into the goldfish as nutrition.Were your goldfish sick prior to introducing the ID shark/catfish? I'mwondering if it was sick... well obviously it was since it has possibleHITH... so it could have introduced a new parasite/bacteria into yourgoldfish tank.If your fish do not make it, which unfortunately may happen, you shouldprobably either break down and clean the entire tank, gravel, filter system,etc., using a high salt water-like paste and/or hydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be to empty all of the water and vacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it with a very strong salt water solution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with your filter system running which would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum the tank again until empty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again. Then refill with fresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare the tank for fish again and while you arefishless cycling, you could start looking around at other fish that wouldwork out in your tank and start planning things in the next few weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling so you will be ready to make your new fishpurchases once the fishless cycle has completed.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyThe smaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming this morningand then just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It was a whitegoldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but you could seeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummy was tinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventually the gaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.I was treating for ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking atthe smaller one before he died and he is now back into hiding. They had bothbeen hiding for a couple of days. He still has the normal body size but hisfins are looking a little wierd as well. I did check out the dead one beforedisposing of it. It looked like the back half of his scales were gone. Ifigure this is from the other goldfish picking it them.I thought the hole in the catfish's head was a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with the melafix. It looks alot like the photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsySo the scales are sticking out like a pinecone but the goldfisharen'tbloated? That's not dropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish fromtheside and top so we can get a better idea of what you are seeing? Remindmeof what you first posted about your fish. I kind of remember it beingIchbut I'm not positive since some of the threads got pretty convoluted.Giveme a short history on the fish/tank. I have some ideas of what you couldbeseeing but I want a refresher about your tanks before throwing thingsout.As far as the injury to the catfish (ID shark), it could simply bethat.From what I remember, you rescued this fish from a cichlid tank so itmayhave been picked on by the cichlids. ID sharks/catfish are not armoredlikemany of the plecos that are more commonly kept in cichlid tanks sincetheyare more able to fight back and fend for themselves in an oftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven't been reading a lot about HITH inthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina made me cut back the number of tanksthat I have, and I've never hadto personally deal with it but it's not justan isolated "hole" like thatcaused from an injury and isn't a festering typeof hole/injury either.It's more like a series of pitting in the head,sensory pits and lateralline area and more often afflicting larger breeds ofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostly agree) that it's related to diet andwater quality issues thataffect many larger fish species which are the onesmost likely to be kept inundersized tanks so they live their lives in lesserwater quality comparedto smaller fish and are not fed proper diets becausefeeding them the amountof food they should be fed would only make the waterquality issues evenworse. It's common with Oscars which are very BIG fishand unfortunatelymany people keep them in tanks as small as 55G tanks. Ithink a 14" fish that is an able bodied swimmer that needs a lot ofproteinin their diets needs MUCH MORE than a 55G tank. It's also why Irecommend theminimum tank size as 55G for two fancy goldfish and even thatis the bareminimum size but at least goldfish do not need as much proteinin theirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much more water quality issueswhen comparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple of long articles I have in myfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still much to be learned about thisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find more recent and more definitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple of years old and based onthe best sciencereferences available at the time they werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www .worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://ww w.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> > VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyIassumed dropsy because of the pine cone shaped he has this morning butafterreading more he is not bloted, instead he is super skinny this morningitpretty well happened over night. He is still breathing but is prettywellbeing pushed around by the flow of water and picked at by my othergoldfish.The other goldfish is starting to get his scales pulling off alittle aswell but is still swimming. the hold inthe head with the catfish isjustthat, a hold in the side of his head. at first I thought it was just asoreso I never mentioned anything but then started reading for the goldfishandcame upon that.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwith life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyHow did you come tothe conclusion it was dropsy for the goldfish andHITHfor the ID Shark(catfish)? Those are both rather rare diseases. I donotrecall seeing anyposts by you with any problems or symptoms relatedtoeither of thesediseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Linkstoarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives-Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:51 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] dropsySo Iwokeup this morning and my smaller goldfish has dropsy. I new somthingwaswrongbut couldnt figure out what. I am assuming my other has it as wellbuthavenot been able to find him yet :-(. ALso my id shark has hole inthehead. So,I guess I will just wait out these fish surely it cannot bemuchlonger beforeIT happens. Once it does, do I recycle the tank or justdowater changes?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwithlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobablywould have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrengthto meet whatever comes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:49:09 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread(wasRe: Todays water) (that will keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... yougotit right on the money with your filtration, carbon,etc.I would waitonadding plants until all of the fish are healthy andyou'vedone enoughPWC'sto have removed the majority of the salt. Then,whenbuying your plants,donot add the plants to the tank until you'vecleanedthem and quarantinedthemto make sure they are snail free anddisease free.To keep the plants"fed"while in quarantine, you can justremove some ofthe tank water withthehigher nitrates, phosphates, etc. anduse that forthe plants. You can useaclean 5G bucket for the plantsquarantine periodand place it near awindowbut not in direct sun so theyget enoughlighting. Here's a coupleofthreads/articles on sanitizing plantsthat I haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445h ttp://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> <inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http ://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http ://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> ><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http: //www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http:/ /www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> <myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http:/ /www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http:/ /www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> >><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fish forums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> ><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishf orums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> > > > VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday,September 30, 2008 9:24PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny, this wasnt me,Sarah. lol I did get a new heaterthough:-) Itsa submersiable with athermostat. My fishes will love metonight. Ialsotook your advice on yourblog about doing surgery on mymarineland200filter cartridge. This way I canstill filter the water even ifit hasmedsin it. I will just need to pick upsome carbon to filter out themedswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to the petstore for it tomorrow, andwouldalsolike some new plants. Should I wait toadd any and do somemorewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more? Orshould theybefine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwith life asitcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably wouldhaverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrength tomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:16:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterFirstIwant to state that I'm alittle confused. I was replying toSarahHuss inthisthread and now it's BillScott. Are you all one in thesame?Or maybeyouswitched email accounts sincethe Hotmail account waslosingall oftheformatting on prior emails in thethread. Let me know so Idon'thavetoaddress you as "Hey You!" LOLIt'sinteresting that the nitratescamedownalthough it could just be theJungletest strips not being asaccurate butifyou did use Prime, then itcouldpossibly have an effect onthe nitratelevelas well.I think you should redothe baseline test and useyour API testkitandJungle test strips just so youcan see how theycompare.Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brand teststrips showedthe teststripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Is the GHcoming outas 25degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0 degreesafter 24hours? Ifso, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers added byyourutility that isgiving afalse positive right out thetap, then onceit'sexposed to air/light,itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of the water.Thismeans you really donothave to worry about it IMOas it will notlikelyaffect your waterparametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH, youlooknear perfect at150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go down inyourtank as well due tothe ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish, etc.)ofthe tank using up thecarbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.It seemsthatall of your tests startedoutreally high and then went downto morenormallevels. I'm not sure if it'sdueto buffers in the tap wateror theJungletest strips. If you canduplicatethe test using API's testkits forammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH, KHand GH, Ithink you would getmoreconsistentnumbers but I think your water isfine forthe majority offishoutthere.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Linkstoarticles referenced above listedonthe right side under Archives- Year,Monthand underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>OnBehalf Of WilliamJ.ScottSent:Tuesday, September 30, 20084:57PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLi fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject> :[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did a water base linelike yousuggested and thereadingsare as followsusing Jungle test strips.Outoftap24hrs48hrs--------------------------------------------------- -------NITRATE201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH (Alkalinity)300150150PH7.27.87.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrs and 80f at48hrs(temptakenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readings werenottaken.Myinitial email was because of high KH readings. (UsingAPIliquidtestmedia). 26 dropsto turn water from blue to green. (Dateonbottle0708).Can you let me knowhow to proceed from here? I just did25%waterchangesin all my tanks usingonly Prime in the water, and then again3dayslater.A big difference inreadings. Also, the fish seemed to bemoreactive,andcolors got moreintense.Thanks,BillScottSo.California.-------OriginalMessage-------From: Lenny V. akaGoldLennyDate:9/30/2008 10:35:15AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam]RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's goodthatyour ammonia is stillat0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate testkitso you will knowwhenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to dotheirjob. For the longrun,you will use your nitratetest far more often thantheammonia andnitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of the teststhatdeterminehowoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWC youneedto dotokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH and KHasmyprimarytests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.If youarerefillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe 48hourbaselinetest onthat water as well so you can know what yourstartingpoint isgoingto be.While they might call it "spring water", allit is goingto beisfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn't drill downintoanunderwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place. ;-)If atsomepoint inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecost startstoaddup,there are under-sink filter systems that will do thesamething.I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhen I didrescueaBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe water frommytap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwater beingchangedandIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I was able tosetupa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, I wentbacktousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do you have onyourtank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat. Thebulbsarecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb, theydoputoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may be anoption.Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heat inatnightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with the tankwrappedinablanket. That would atleast give the fish some dark timewhilenotallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want a heaterforthetropicalfish.If you read overtheMongabayprofile><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthal mus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > > > > > >>ontheIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they are verynervousfishwithpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, are supposed togetveryBIGso itcould be that it is just looking for morefood.Catfishareoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot of timeforagingforfood. Idonot see it mentioned in that profile but catfisharequiteoftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Google searchonthescientificname toread up more on it.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <it.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > >(Links to articlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year, MonthandunderLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 2008 11:52AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3forammonia not NO3. I haventgottenmytest for that yet. So I am not haveanyammonia since I put thestresscoatin. That was last week and I havent hadaproblem since. I havedecidedtouse spring water. I started working atgoodol' wally world so Iwilljusttake my big bottles and fill them afterwork.This way I know thatthewaterisnt my problem and it's something to dowiththe bacteria in mytank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently it wasturneddown very far. Ikickeditup this morning when I noticed it but now itsnotwanting to turn on,soit'sgoing back to the store when I get achance.Hopefully I get toitsoon,because it gets cold in our house at night.Wouldit mess with thefishmoreif I just left the light on to help keep itsheatuntil I getaworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark,Inever see himsleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night. Iworknights and heisstill likethis when I get home. Is this normalbehaviour forthem, or doIjust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee,butyoujust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of whatwastobe, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, youalwaysfindthe strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FORTHEGREATERGOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLif e%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep2008 11:37:58-0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. Iforgot tomention. Keepat least the "pinchper 10G" of saltlevelin your tankwhile youare stillhaving nitrite (NO2-)issues. Youstillhave more than thatlevel rightnowsince you had addedfourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC soyou stillhavemore thantwotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate(NO3-) levelisstill 0whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need totest yourammoniatomakesure you are not havingan ammonia spike aswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <aswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > >> > (Links toarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Ofcheeseymicron03Sent:Tuesday, September 30,200810:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLi fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><ma ilto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> :[AquaticLife]TodayswaterIfilled up the tanktoday (it was getting low) Iadded 6.6gallons tothe35gallon tank so its asfull as it should be. Iretested waterandherearetodays stats (sundays statsin these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8(1.6)No30(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74 (80) my heaterwasnt working this morningIput4tablespoons in the tank last week (followthe box directions butwithless)Ihadsince taken and did a 40% water changeand did not addanymoresalt.Iknowmytank is overstocked. I didnt plan ongetting the shark, itwasarescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do plan ongetting rid of it, butasofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it with allof the healthissues.Asfor meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there right now(as long asthecarbon hastakenitall out) I was using quick cure for the ichwhich seemstobegoneandmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seem tobeworking.Ihaveheardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Two andthoughtaboutgettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail for myemail.I hadnoticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I will trytoreplyfromyahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah_____ avast!Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > >:Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Testedon:10/1/2008 10:54:44 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWILSoftware.[Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved]________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > :Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on:10/1/2008 11:23:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 12:25:25 PMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 12:55:24 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 6:03:15 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081002-0, 10/02/2008 Tested on: 10/2/2008 1:40:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081002-0, 10/02/2008 Tested on: 10/2/2008 1:46:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30808	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats

its 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% water change and it dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats Is the nitrite (NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm is WAYHIGH.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] water statsI finally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todays stats:no3+ 10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77I put in the prime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwill not make it. I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10 gallon for a hospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallest to cycle it and if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwith maracyn-two until something changes. I think i've learned my lessonabout taking rescue fish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix is not nearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It's OK for treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing of other injuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming, proper filter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackinto excellent condition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem can catch up to minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick. In advanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can also cause scale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you called pine coning) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also. The wasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternal digestive tract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish is consuming instead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish as nutrition.Were your goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish? I'mwondering if it was sick... well obviously it was since ithas possibleHITH... so it could have introduced a new parasite/bacteria intoyourgoldfish tank.If your fish do not make it, which unfortunately mayhappen, you shouldprobably either break down and clean the entire tank,gravel, filter system,etc., using a high salt water-like paste and/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be to empty all of the water andvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it with a very strong salt watersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with your filter system runningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum the tank again untilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again. Then refill withfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare the tank for fish againand while you arefishless cycling, you could start looking around at otherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and start planning things in the nextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling so you will be ready to makeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cycle has completed.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyThesmaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming this morningandthen just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It was awhitegoldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but you couldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummy wastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventually thegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.I was treatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking atthe smaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They had bothbeen hiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size but hisfins are lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the dead one beforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales were gone. Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought the hole in the catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with the melafix. It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsySo the scales aresticking out like a pinecone but the goldfisharen'tbloated? That's notdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish fromtheside and top so we can geta better idea of what you are seeing? Remindmeof what you first posted aboutyour fish. I kind of remember it beingIchbut I'm not positive since some ofthe threads got pretty convoluted.Giveme a short history on the fish/tank. Ihave some ideas of what you couldbeseeing but I want a refresher about yourtanks before throwing thingsout.As far as the injury to the catfish (IDshark), it could simply bethat.From what I remember, you rescued this fishfrom a cichlid tank so itmayhave been picked on by the cichlids. IDsharks/catfish are not armoredlikemany of the plecos that are more commonlykept in cichlid tanks sincetheyare more able to fight back and fend forthemselves in an oftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven't beenreading a lot about HITH inthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina made mecut back the number of tanksthat I have, and I've never hadto personallydeal with it but it's not justan isolated "hole" like thatcaused from aninjury and isn't a festering typeof hole/injury either.It's more like aseries of pitting in the head,sensory pits and lateralline area and moreoften afflicting larger breeds ofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostly agree)that it's related to diet andwater quality issues thataffect many largerfish species which are the onesmost likely to be kept inundersized tanks sothey live their lives in lesserwater quality comparedto smaller fish and arenot fed proper diets becausefeeding them the amountof food they should befed would only make the waterquality issues evenworse. It's common withOscars which are very BIG fishand unfortunatelymany people keep them intanks as small as 55G tanks. Ithink a 14" fish that is an able bodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinin their diets needs MUCH MORE than a 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommend theminimum tank size as 55G for two fancygoldfish and even thatis the bareminimum size but at least goldfish do notneed as much proteinin theirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much more waterquality issueswhen comparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple of longarticles I have in myfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still much tobe learned about thisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find more recentand more definitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple of yearsold and based onthe best sciencereferences available at the time theywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny><written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> > VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyIassumed dropsy because of the pine cone shaped he has this morningbutafterreading more he is not bloted, instead he is super skinny thismorningitpretty well happened over night. He is still breathing but isprettywellbeing pushed around by the flow of water and picked at by myothergoldfish.The other goldfish is starting to get his scales pulling offalittle aswell but is still swimming. the hold inthe head with the catfishisjustthat, a hold in the side of his head. at first I thought it was justasoreso I never mentioned anything but then started reading for thegoldfishandcame upon that.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdealwith life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be,Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always findthestrength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyHow did youcome tothe conclusion it was dropsy for the goldfish andHITHfor the IDShark(catfish)? Those are both rather rare diseases. I donotrecall seeinganyposts by you with any problems or symptoms relatedtoeither ofthesediseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Linkstoarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:51AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] dropsySo Iwokeup this morning and my smallergoldfish has dropsy. I new somthingwaswrongbut couldnt figure out what. I amassuming my other has it as wellbuthavenot been able to find him yet :-(.ALso my id shark has hole inthehead. So,I guess I will just wait out thesefish surely it cannot bemuchlonger beforeIT happens. Once it does, do Irecycle the tank or justdowater changes?Sarah"With kids there's noguarantee, but you just dealwithlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a scriptof what was to be, Iprobablywould have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways find thestrengthto meet whatever comes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:49:09-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread(wasRe: Todays water) (thatwill keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... yougotit right on the money withyour filtration, carbon,etc.I would waitonadding plants until all of thefish are healthy andyou'vedone enoughPWC'sto have removed the majority ofthe salt. Then,whenbuying your plants,donot add the plants to the tank untilyou'vecleanedthem and quarantinedthemto make sure they are snail freeanddisease free.To keep the plants"fed"while in quarantine, you canjustremove some ofthe tank water withthehigher nitrates, phosphates, etc.anduse that forthe plants. You can useaclean 5G bucket for theplantsquarantine periodand place it near awindowbut not in direct sun sotheyget enoughlighting. Here's a coupleofthreads/articles on sanitizingplantsthat Ihaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> > > >VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > >>(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side underArchives-Year,Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 2008 9:24PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny, this wasnt me,Sarah. lol I did get anew heaterthough:-) Itsa submersiable with athermostat. My fishes will lovemetonight. Ialsotook your advice on yourblog about doing surgery onmymarineland200filter cartridge. This way I canstill filter the water evenifit hasmedsin it. I will just need to pick upsome carbon to filter outthemedswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to the petstore for it tomorrow,andwouldalsolike some new plants. Should I wait toadd any and dosomemorewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more? Orshouldtheybefine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwith lifeasitcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobablywouldhaverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrengthtomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep2008 21:16:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterFirstIwant tostate that I'm alittle confused. I was replying toSarahHuss inthisthread andnow it's BillScott. Are you all one in thesame?Or maybeyouswitched emailaccounts sincethe Hotmail account waslosingall oftheformatting on prioremails in thethread. Let me know so Idon'thavetoaddress you as "Hey You!"LOLIt'sinteresting that the nitratescamedownalthough it could just betheJungletest strips not being asaccurate butifyou did use Prime, thenitcouldpossibly have an effect onthe nitratelevelas well.I think you shouldredothe baseline test and useyour API testkitandJungle test strips just soyoucan see how theycompare.Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brandteststrips showedthe teststripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Isthe GHcoming outas 25degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0degreesafter 24hours? Ifso, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers addedbyyourutility that isgiving afalse positive right out thetap, thenonceit'sexposed to air/light,itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of thewater.Thismeans you really donothave to worry about it IMOas it willnotlikelyaffect your waterparametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH,youlooknear perfect at150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go downinyourtank as well due tothe ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish,etc.)ofthe tank using up thecarbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.Itseemsthatall of your tests startedoutreally high and then went downtomorenormallevels. I'm not sure if it'sdueto buffers in the tap waterortheJungletest strips. If you canduplicatethe test using API's testkitsforammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH, KHand GH, Ithink you wouldgetmoreconsistentnumbers but I think your water isfine forthe majorityoffishoutthere.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >(Linkstoarticles referenced above listedonthe right side under Archives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>OnBehalf OfWilliamJ.ScottSent:Tuesday, September 30,20084:57PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> :[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did awater base linelike yousuggested and thereadingsare as followsusing Jungleteststrips.Outoftap24hrs48hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRATE201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH(Alkalinity)300150150PH7.27.87.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrsand 80f at48hrs(temptakenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readingswerenottaken.Myinitial email was because of high KH readings.(UsingAPIliquidtestmedia). 26 dropsto turn water from blue to green.(Dateonbottle0708).Can you let me knowhow to proceed from here? I justdid25%waterchangesin all my tanks usingonly Prime in the water, and thenagain3dayslater.A big difference inreadings. Also, the fish seemed tobemoreactive,andcolors gotmoreintense.Thanks,BillScottSo.California.-------OriginalMessage-------From:Lenny V. akaGoldLennyDate:9/30/2008 10:35:15AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [NortonAntiSpam]RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's goodthatyour ammonia isstillat0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate testkitso you willknowwhenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to dotheirjob. For thelongrun,you will use your nitratetest far more often thantheammoniaandnitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of theteststhatdeterminehowoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWCyouneedto dotokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH andKHasmyprimarytests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.Ifyouarerefillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe48hourbaselinetest onthat water as well so you can know whatyourstartingpoint isgoingto be.While they might call it "spring water",allit is goingto beisfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn't drilldownintoanunderwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place. ;-)Ifatsomepoint inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecoststartstoaddup,there are under-sink filter systems that will dothesamething.I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhen IdidrescueaBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe waterfrommytap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwaterbeingchangedandIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I wasable tosetupa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, Iwentbacktousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do you haveonyourtank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat.Thebulbsarecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb,theydoputoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may beanoption.Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heatinatnightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with thetankwrappedinablanket. That would atleast give the fish some darktimewhilenotallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely want aheaterforthetropicalfish.If you readovertheMongabayprofile><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > > > > >>>ontheIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they areverynervousfishwithpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, aresupposed togetveryBIGso itcould be that it is just looking formorefood.Catfishareoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot oftimeforagingforfood. Idonot see it mentioned in that profile butcatfisharequiteoftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Googlesearchonthescientificname toread up more onit.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<it.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > >(Links toarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 2008 11:52AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE:[AquaticLife]TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3forammonia not NO3.I haventgottenmytest for that yet. So I am not haveanyammonia since I putthestresscoatin. That was last week and I havent hadaproblem since. Ihavedecidedtouse spring water. I started working atgoodol' wally world soIwilljusttake my big bottles and fill them afterwork.This way I knowthatthewaterisnt my problem and it's something to dowiththe bacteria inmytank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently it wasturneddown very far.Ikickeditup this morning when I noticed it but now itsnotwanting to turnon,soit'sgoing back to the store when I get achance.Hopefully I gettoitsoon,because it gets cold in our house at night.Wouldit mess withthefishmoreif I just left the light on to help keep itsheatuntil Igetaworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark,Inever seehimsleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night. Iworknights andheisstill likethis when I get home. Is this normalbehaviour forthem, ordoIjust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kidsthere's noguarantee,butyoujust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a scriptof whatwastobe, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However,youalwaysfindthe strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILINGFORTHEGREATERGOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep200811:37:58-0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. Iforgot tomention.Keepat least the "pinchper 10G" of saltlevelin your tankwhile youarestillhaving nitrite (NO2-)issues. Youstillhave more than thatlevelrightnowsince you had addedfourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC soyoustillhavemore thantwotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate(NO3-)levelisstill 0whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need totestyourammoniatomakesure you are not havingan ammonia spikeaswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<aswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >> >> > (Links toarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side underArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Ofcheeseymicron03Sent:Tuesday, September30,200810:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> :[AquaticLife]TodayswaterIfilledup the tanktoday (it was getting low) Iadded 6.6gallons tothe35gallon tankso its asfull as it should be. Iretested waterandherearetodays stats(sundays statsin these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8(1.6)No30(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74(80) my heaterwasnt working this morningIput4tablespoons in the tank lastweek (followthe box directions butwithless)Ihadsince taken and did a 40%water changeand did not addanymoresalt.Iknowmytank is overstocked. I didntplan ongetting the shark, itwasarescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do planongetting rid of it, butasofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it withallof the healthissues.Asfor meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there rightnow(as long asthecarbon hastakenitall out) I was using quick cure for theichwhich seemstobegoneandmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seemtobeworking.Ihaveheardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Twoandthoughtaboutgettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail formyemail.I hadnoticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I willtrytoreplyfromyahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah_____avast!Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > >> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > > > >:Outbound message clean. Virus Database(VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Testedon:10/1/2008 10:54:44 AMavast! - copyright(c) 1988-2008 ALWILSoftware.[Non-text portions of this message havebeenremoved]________________________________avast!Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > >:Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Testedon:10/1/2008 11:23:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWILSoftware._____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database(VPS):081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 12:25:25 PMavast! - copyright(c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved]________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > :Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on:10/1/2008 12:55:24 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081001-0, 10/01/2008Tested on: 10/1/2008 6:03:15 PMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081002-0, 10/02/2008Tested on: 10/2/2008 1:40:42 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081002-0, 10/02/2008Tested on: 10/2/2008 1:46:21 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30809	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats

OK. This is because you are into your first phase of cycling so the ammonia eating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony to handle the ammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The next phase will be the nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitrite to nitrate but until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels. I believe you are still running a high level of salt so that will partially protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get the nitrite level down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two. Each time you do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replace the removed salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now but hopefully you do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replace with the PWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water and slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DO NOT pour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats its 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% water change and it dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats Is the nitrite (NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm is WAYHIGH.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] water statsI finally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todays stats:no3+ 10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77I put in the prime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwill not make it. I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10 gallon for a hospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallest to cycle it and if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwith maracyn-two until something changes. I think i've learned my lessonabout taking rescue fish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix is not nearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It's OK for treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing of other injuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming, proper filter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackinto excellent condition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem can catch up to minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick. In advanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can also cause scale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you called pine coning) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also. The wasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternal digestive tract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish is consuming instead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish as nutrition.Were your goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish? I'mwondering if it was sick... well obviously it was since ithas possibleHITH... so it could have introduced a new parasite/bacteria intoyourgoldfish tank.If your fish do not make it, which unfortunately mayhappen, you shouldprobably either break down and clean the entire tank,gravel, filter system,etc., using a high salt water-like paste and/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be to empty all of the water andvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it with a very strong salt watersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with your filter system runningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum the tank again untilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again. Then refill withfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare the tank for fish againand while you arefishless cycling, you could start looking around at otherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and start planning things in the nextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling so you will be ready to makeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cycle has completed.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyThesmaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming this morningandthen just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It was awhitegoldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but you couldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummy wastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventually thegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.I was treatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking atthe smaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They had bothbeen hiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size but hisfins are lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the dead one beforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales were gone. Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought the hole in the catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with the melafix. It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsySo the scales aresticking out like a pinecone but the goldfisharen'tbloated? That's notdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish fromtheside and top so we can geta better idea of what you are seeing? Remindmeof what you first posted aboutyour fish. I kind of remember it beingIchbut I'm not positive since some ofthe threads got pretty convoluted.Giveme a short history on the fish/tank. Ihave some ideas of what you couldbeseeing but I want a refresher about yourtanks before throwing thingsout.As far as the injury to the catfish (IDshark), it could simply bethat.From what I remember, you rescued this fishfrom a cichlid tank so itmayhave been picked on by the cichlids. IDsharks/catfish are not armoredlikemany of the plecos that are more commonlykept in cichlid tanks sincetheyare more able to fight back and fend forthemselves in an oftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven't beenreading a lot about HITH inthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina made mecut back the number of tanksthat I have, and I've never hadto personallydeal with it but it's not justan isolated "hole" like thatcaused from aninjury and isn't a festering typeof hole/injury either.It's more like aseries of pitting in the head,sensory pits and lateralline area and moreoften afflicting larger breeds ofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostly agree)that it's related to diet andwater quality issues thataffect many largerfish species which are the onesmost likely to be kept inundersized tanks sothey live their lives in lesserwater quality comparedto smaller fish and arenot fed proper diets becausefeeding them the amountof food they should befed would only make the waterquality issues evenworse. It's common withOscars which are very BIG fishand unfortunatelymany people keep them intanks as small as 55G tanks. Ithink a 14" fish that is an able bodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinin their diets needs MUCH MORE than a 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommend theminimum tank size as 55G for two fancygoldfish and even thatis the bareminimum size but at least goldfish do notneed as much proteinin theirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much more waterquality issueswhen comparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple of longarticles I have in myfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still much tobe learned about thisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find more recentand more definitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple of yearsold and based onthe best sciencereferences available at the time theywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/ /www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <theywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp: //www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://ww w.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://ww w.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> ><written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.w orldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> > > VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08 AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyIassumed dropsy because of the pine cone shaped he has this morningbutafterreading more he is not bloted, instead he is super skinny thismorningitpretty well happened over night. He is still breathing but isprettywellbeing pushed around by the flow of water and picked at by myothergoldfish.The other goldfish is starting to get his scales pulling offalittle aswell but is still swimming. the hold inthe head with the catfishisjustthat, a hold in the side of his head. at first I thought it was justasoreso I never mentioned anything but then started reading for thegoldfishandcame upon that.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdealwith life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be,Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always findthestrength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyHow did youcome tothe conclusion it was dropsy for the goldfish andHITHfor the IDShark(catfish)? Those are both rather rare diseases. I donotrecall seeinganyposts by you with any problems or symptoms relatedtoeither ofthesediseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Linkstoarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:51AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] dropsySo Iwokeup this morning and my smallergoldfish has dropsy. I new somthingwaswrongbut couldnt figure out what. I amassuming my other has it as wellbuthavenot been able to find him yet :-(.ALso my id shark has hole inthehead. So,I guess I will just wait out thesefish surely it cannot bemuchlonger beforeIT happens. Once it does, do Irecycle the tank or justdowater changes?Sarah"With kids there's noguarantee, but you just dealwithlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a scriptof what was to be, Iprobablywould have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways find thestrengthto meet whatever comes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep 2008 21:49:09-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread(wasRe: Todays water) (thatwill keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... yougotit right on the money withyour filtration, carbon,etc.I would waitonadding plants until all of thefish are healthy andyou'vedone enoughPWC'sto have removed the majority ofthe salt. Then,whenbuying your plants,donot add the plants to the tank untilyou'vecleanedthem and quarantinedthemto make sure they are snail freeanddisease free.To keep the plants"fed"while in quarantine, you canjustremove some ofthe tank water withthehigher nitrates, phosphates, etc.anduse that forthe plants. You can useaclean 5G bucket for theplantsquarantine periodand place it near awindowbut not in direct sun sotheyget enoughlighting. Here's a coupleofthreads/articles on sanitizingplantsthat Ihaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <Ihaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=144 5http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> <haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> ><inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445htt p://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http ://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> <inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http ://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny 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<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishfo rums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> > > > >VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >>(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side underArchives-Year,Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 2008 9:24PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticli fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny, this wasnt me,Sarah. lol I did get anew heaterthough:-) Itsa submersiable with athermostat. My fishes will lovemetonight. Ialsotook your advice on yourblog about doing surgery onmymarineland200filter cartridge. This way I canstill filter the water evenifit hasmedsin it. I will just need to pick upsome carbon to filter outthemedswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to the petstore for it tomorrow,andwouldalsolike some new plants. Should I wait toadd any and dosomemorewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more? Orshouldtheybefine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwith lifeasitcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobablywouldhaverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrengthtomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep2008 21:16:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Todays waterFirstIwant tostate that I'm alittle confused. I was replying toSarahHuss inthisthread andnow it's BillScott. Are you all one in thesame?Or maybeyouswitched emailaccounts sincethe Hotmail account waslosingall oftheformatting on prioremails in thethread. Let me know so Idon'thavetoaddress you as "Hey You!"LOLIt'sinteresting that the nitratescamedownalthough it could just betheJungletest strips not being asaccurate butifyou did use Prime, thenitcouldpossibly have an effect onthe nitratelevelas well.I think you shouldredothe baseline test and useyour API testkitandJungle test strips just soyoucan see how theycompare.Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brandteststrips showedthe teststripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Isthe GHcoming outas 25degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0degreesafter 24hours? Ifso, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers addedbyyourutility that isgiving afalse positive right out thetap, thenonceit'sexposed to air/light,itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of thewater.Thismeans you really donothave to worry about it IMOas it willnotlikelyaffect your waterparametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH,youlooknear perfect at150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go downinyourtank as well due tothe ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish,etc.)ofthe tank using up thecarbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.Itseemsthatall of your tests startedoutreally high and then went downtomorenormallevels. I'm not sure if it'sdueto buffers in the tap waterortheJungletest strips. If you canduplicatethe test using API's testkitsforammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH, KHand GH, Ithink you wouldgetmoreconsistentnumbers but I think your water isfine forthe majorityoffishoutthere.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Linkstoarticles referenced above listedonthe right side under Archives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> OnBehalf OfWilliamJ.ScottSent:Tuesday, September 30,20084:57PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLi fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> :[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did awater base linelike yousuggested and thereadingsare as followsusing Jungleteststrips.Outoftap24hrs48hrs----------------------------------------- -----------------NITRATE201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 0 00KH(Alkalinity)300150150PH7.27.87.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24 hrsand 80f at48hrs(temptakenwith digital thermometer) Ammonia readingswerenottaken.Myinitial email was because of high KH readings.(UsingAPIliquidtestmedia). 26 dropsto turn water from blue to green.(Dateonbottle0708).Can you let me knowhow to proceed from here? I justdid25%waterchangesin all my tanks usingonly Prime in the water, and thenagain3dayslater.A big difference inreadings. Also, the fish seemed tobemoreactive,andcolors gotmoreintense.Thanks,BillScottSo.California.-------OriginalMessage-------Fr om:Lenny V. akaGoldLennyDate:9/30/2008 10:35:15AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [NortonAntiSpam]RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That's goodthatyour ammonia isstillat0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitrate testkitso you willknowwhenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting to dotheirjob. For thelongrun,you will use your nitratetest far more often thantheammoniaandnitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one of theteststhatdeterminehowoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentage PWCyouneedto dotokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pH andKHasmyprimarytests in establishing myroutines on my tanks.Ifyouarerefillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want to dothe48hourbaselinetest onthat water as well so you can know whatyourstartingpoint isgoingto be.While they might call it "spring water",allit is goingto beisfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn't drilldownintoanunderwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place. ;-)Ifatsomepoint inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience or thecoststartstoaddup,there are under-sink filter systems that will dothesamething.I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhen IdidrescueaBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothe waterfrommytap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn't muchwaterbeingchangedandIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntil I wasable tosetupa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank, Iwentbacktousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do you haveonyourtank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if any heat.Thebulbsarecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescent bulb,theydoputoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that may beanoption.Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep the heatinatnightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours with thetankwrappedinablanket. That would atleast give the fish some darktimewhilenotallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. 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<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > > > > > > >>>ontheIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that they areverynervousfishwithpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know, aresupposed togetveryBIGso itcould be that it is just looking formorefood.Catfishareoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lot oftimeforagingforfood. Idonot see it mentioned in that profile butcatfisharequiteoftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do a Googlesearchonthescientificname toread up more onit.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <onit.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <it.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <it.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > >(Links toarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 2008 11:52AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE:[AquaticLife]TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to type NH3forammonia not NO3.I haventgottenmytest for that yet. So I am not haveanyammonia since I putthestresscoatin. That was last week and I havent hadaproblem since. Ihavedecidedtouse spring water. I started working atgoodol' wally world soIwilljusttake my big bottles and fill them afterwork.This way I knowthatthewaterisnt my problem and it's something to dowiththe bacteria inmytank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently it wasturneddown very far.Ikickeditup this morning when I noticed it but now itsnotwanting to turnon,soit'sgoing back to the store when I get achance.Hopefully I gettoitsoon,because it gets cold in our house at night.Wouldit mess withthefishmoreif I just left the light on to help keep itsheatuntil Igetaworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my ID shark,Inever seehimsleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night. Iworknights andheisstill likethis when I get home. Is this normalbehaviour forthem, ordoIjust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kidsthere's noguarantee,butyoujust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a scriptof whatwastobe, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However,youalwaysfindthe strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILINGFORTHEGREATERGOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLif e%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmai l.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep200811:37:58-0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOops.. Iforgot tomention.Keepat least the "pinchper 10G" of saltlevelin your tankwhile youarestillhaving nitrite (NO2-)issues. Youstillhave more than thatlevelrightnowsince you had addedfourtablespoons andthen did a 40% PWC soyoustillhavemore thantwotablespoons in your tank.I see your nitrate(NO3-)levelisstill 0whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You need totestyourammoniatomakesure you are not havingan ammonia spikeaswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <spikeaswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <aswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <aswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > >> >> > (Links toarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side underArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:Aquatic Life@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Ofcheeseymicron03Sent:Tuesday, September30,200810:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLi fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><ma ilto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comSubject> :[AquaticLife]TodayswaterIfilledup the tanktoday (it was getting low) Iadded 6.6gallons tothe35gallon tankso its asfull as it should be. Iretested waterandherearetodays stats(sundays statsin these) PH 8 (8)No2- .8(1.6)No30(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74(80) my heaterwasnt working this morningIput4tablespoons in the tank lastweek (followthe box directions butwithless)Ihadsince taken and did a 40%water changeand did not addanymoresalt.Iknowmytank is overstocked. I didntplan ongetting the shark, itwasarescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do planongetting rid of it, butasofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it withallof the healthissues.Asfor meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there rightnow(as long asthecarbon hastakenitall out) I was using quick cure for theichwhich seemstobegoneandmelafix for the other issues but it didnt seemtobeworking.Ihaveheardgreat things about Mardel Maracyn Twoandthoughtaboutgettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmail formyemail.I hadnoticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember I willtrytoreplyfromyahoosgroup ratherthan my email.Sarah_____avast!Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > >> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > >:Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30810	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats

3-4 weeks in and I'm finally in my first phase of cycling? I'm leaving for work in 10 minutes I so I dont have time for a water change, and I'll be gone all night. That just sucks! If/when these fish do not make it, would it work to just kick my heater up all the way for a week or something to kill all the bad things? I hate the thought of having to tear down the hole tank and start over. I will if I have to, but man, that just sucks. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats OK. This is because you are into your first phase of cycling so the ammoniaeating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony to handle theammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The next phase will bethe nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitrite to nitratebut until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.I believe you are still running a high level of salt so that will partiallyprotect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get the nitritelevel down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two. Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replace theremoved salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now but hopefullyyou do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replace with thePWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water and slowlypour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DO NOTpour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] water statsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% water change andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs the nitrite (NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm isWAYHIGH.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] water statsIfinally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todays stats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77I put in theprime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwill not make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10 gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallest to cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwith maracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned my lessonabout taking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix is notnearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It's OKfor treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing of otherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming, properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackinto excellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem can catch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick. Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can also causescale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you called pineconing) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also. Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternal digestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish is consuminginstead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish as nutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish? I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was since ithas possibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a new parasite/bacteria intoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, which unfortunately mayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean the entire tank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-like paste and/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of the water andvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strong salt watersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfilter system runningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetank again untilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Then refill withfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank for fish againand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking around at otherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things in the nextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be ready to makeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cycle hascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.I wastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking atthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They had bothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size but hisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the dead onebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales were gone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought the hole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with the melafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking out like a pinecone but the goldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish fromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of what you are seeing? Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind of remember it beingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads got pretty convoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas of what you couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks before throwing thingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it could simply bethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tank so itmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish are not armoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlid tanks sincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves in an oftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot about HITH inthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the number of tanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it's not justan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't a festering typeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting in the head,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting larger breeds ofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related to diet andwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which are the onesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their lives in lesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed proper diets becausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only make the waterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are very BIG fishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55G tanks. Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinin their diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommend theminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatis the bareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as much proteinin theirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterquality issueswhen comparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles I have in myfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learned about thisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentand more definitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsold and based onthe best sciencereferences available at the timetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<theywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny><werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny>><written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny><written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> > > VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyIassumed dropsy because of the pinecone shaped he has this morningbutafterreading more he is not bloted,instead he is super skinny thismorningitpretty well happened over night. Heis still breathing but isprettywellbeing pushed around by the flow of waterand picked at by myothergoldfish.The other goldfish is starting to get hisscales pulling offalittle aswell but is still swimming. the hold inthe headwith the catfishisjustthat, a hold in the side of his head. at first Ithought it was justasoreso I never mentioned anything but then startedreading for thegoldfishandcame upon that.Sarah"With kids there's noguarantee, but you justdealwith life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a scriptof what was to be,Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways findthestrength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyHow did youcome tothe conclusion it was dropsy for thegoldfish andHITHfor the IDShark(catfish)? Those are both rather rarediseases. I donotrecall seeinganyposts by you with any problems or symptomsrelatedtoeither ofthesediseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Linkstoarticles referencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 2008 8:51AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]dropsySo Iwokeup this morning and my smallergoldfish has dropsy. I newsomthingwaswrongbut couldnt figure out what. I amassuming my other has it aswellbuthavenot been able to find him yet :-(.ALso my id shark has holeinthehead. So,I guess I will just wait out thesefish surely it cannotbemuchlonger beforeIT happens. Once it does, do Irecycle the tank orjustdowater changes?Sarah"With kids there's noguarantee, but you justdealwithlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a scriptof what was to be,Iprobablywould have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways findthestrengthto meet whatever comes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep2008 21:49:09-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread(wasRe: Todayswater) (thatwill keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... yougotit right onthe money withyour filtration, carbon,etc.I would waitonadding plants untilall of thefish are healthy andyou'vedone enoughPWC'sto have removed themajority ofthe salt. Then,whenbuying your plants,donot add the plants to thetank untilyou'vecleanedthem and quarantinedthemto make sure they are snailfreeanddisease free.To keep the plants"fed"while in quarantine, youcanjustremove some ofthe tank water withthehigher nitrates, phosphates,etc.anduse that forthe plants. You can useaclean 5G bucket fortheplantsquarantine periodand place it near awindowbut not in direct sunsotheyget enoughlighting. Here's a coupleofthreads/articles onsanitizingplantsthatIhaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<Ihaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>>><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>>>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> > > >>VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >>>(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right sideunderArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 20089:24PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny,this wasnt me,Sarah. lol I did get anew heaterthough:-) Itsa submersiablewith athermostat. My fishes will lovemetonight. Ialsotook your advice onyourblog about doing surgery onmymarineland200filter cartridge. This way Icanstill filter the water evenifit hasmedsin it. I will just need to pickupsome carbon to filter outthemedswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to thepetstore for it tomorrow,andwouldalsolike some new plants. Should I waittoadd any and dosomemorewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more?Orshouldtheybefine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdealwith lifeasitcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be,Iprobablywouldhaverun scaredthe other way. However, you always findthestrengthtomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FORTHEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep2008 21:16:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife]Re:Todays waterFirstIwant tostate that I'm alittle confused. I was replyingtoSarahHuss inthisthread andnow it's BillScott. Are you all one inthesame?Or maybeyouswitched emailaccounts sincethe Hotmail accountwaslosingall oftheformatting on prioremails in thethread. Let me know soIdon'thavetoaddress you as "Hey You!"LOLIt'sinteresting that thenitratescamedownalthough it could just betheJungletest strips not beingasaccurate butifyou did use Prime, thenitcouldpossibly have an effect onthenitratelevelas well.I think you shouldredothe baseline test and useyour APItestkitandJungle test strips just soyoucan see howtheycompare.Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brandteststrips showedtheteststripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Isthe GHcoming outas25degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0degreesafter 24hours?Ifso, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers addedbyyourutility thatisgiving afalse positive right out thetap, thenonceit'sexposed toair/light,itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of thewater.Thismeans youreally donothave to worry about it IMOas it willnotlikelyaffect yourwaterparametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH,youlooknear perfectat150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go downinyourtank as well duetothe ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish,etc.)ofthe tank using upthecarbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.Itseemsthatall of your testsstartedoutreally high and then went downtomorenormallevels. I'm not sure ifit'sdueto buffers in the tap waterortheJungletest strips. If youcanduplicatethe test using API's testkitsforammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH,KHand GH, Ithink you wouldgetmoreconsistentnumbers but I think your waterisfine forthe majorityoffishoutthere.Lenny VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Linkstoarticles referenced abovelistedonthe right side underArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>OnBehalf OfWilliamJ.ScottSent:Tuesday, September30,20084:57PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>:[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did awater base linelike yousuggestedand thereadingsare as followsusingJungleteststrips.Outoftap24hrs48hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRATE201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 000KH(Alkalinity)300150150PH7.27.87.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24hrsand 80f at48hrs(temptakenwith digital thermometer) Ammoniareadingswerenottaken.Myinitial email was because of high KHreadings.(UsingAPIliquidtestmedia). 26 dropsto turn water from blue togreen.(Dateonbottle0708).Can you let me knowhow to proceed from here? Ijustdid25%waterchangesin all my tanks usingonly Prime in the water, andthenagain3dayslater.A big difference inreadings. Also, the fish seemedtobemoreactive,andcolorsgotmoreintense.Thanks,BillScottSo.California.-------OriginalMessage-------From:Lenny V. akaGoldLennyDate:9/30/200810:35:15AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [NortonAntiSpam]RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That'sgoodthatyour ammonia isstillat0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitratetestkitso you willknowwhenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting todotheirjob. For thelongrun,you will use your nitratetest far more oftenthantheammoniaandnitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one oftheteststhatdeterminehowoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentagePWCyouneedto dotokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pHandKHasmyprimarytests in establishing myroutines on mytanks.Ifyouarerefillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want todothe48hourbaselinetest onthat water as well so you can knowwhatyourstartingpoint isgoingto be.While they might call it "springwater",allit is goingto beisfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn'tdrilldownintoanunderwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place.;-)Ifatsomepoint inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience orthecoststartstoaddup,there are under-sink filter systems that willdothesamething.I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhenIdidrescueaBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothewaterfrommytap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn'tmuchwaterbeingchangedandIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntilI wasable tosetupa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank,Iwentbacktousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do youhaveonyourtank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if anyheat.Thebulbsarecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescentbulb,theydoputoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that maybeanoption.Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep theheatinatnightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours withthetankwrappedinablanket. That would atleast give the fish somedarktimewhilenotallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely wantaheaterforthetropicalfish.If youreadovertheMongabayprofile><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > >>><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > >>><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > > > > > >>>>ontheIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that theyareverynervousfishwithpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know,aresupposed togetveryBIGso itcould be that it is just lookingformorefood.Catfishareoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lotoftimeforagingforfood. Idonot see it mentioned in that profilebutcatfisharequiteoftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do aGooglesearchonthescientificname toread up moreonit.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<onit.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><it.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<it.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > >(Linkstoarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side underArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 200811:52AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE:[AquaticLife]TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to typeNH3forammonia not NO3.I haventgottenmytest for that yet. So I am nothaveanyammonia since I putthestresscoatin. That was last week and I haventhadaproblem since. Ihavedecidedtouse spring water. I started workingatgoodol' wally world soIwilljusttake my big bottles and fill themafterwork.This way I knowthatthewaterisnt my problem and it's something todowiththe bacteria inmytank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently itwasturneddown very far.Ikickeditup this morning when I noticed it but nowitsnotwanting to turnon,soit'sgoing back to the store when I getachance.Hopefully I gettoitsoon,because it gets cold in our house atnight.Wouldit mess withthefishmoreif I just left the light on to help keepitsheatuntil Igetaworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my IDshark,Inever seehimsleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night.Iworknights andheisstill likethis when I get home. Is this normalbehaviourforthem, ordoIjust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kidsthere'snoguarantee,butyoujust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme ascriptof whatwastobe, I probably would have run scaredthe otherway.However,youalwaysfindthe strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILINGFORTHEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>:GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep200811:37:58-0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] TodayswaterOops.. Iforgot tomention.Keepat least the "pinchper 10G" of saltlevelinyour tankwhile youarestillhaving nitrite (NO2-)issues. Youstillhave morethan thatlevelrightnowsince you had addedfourtablespoons andthen did a 40%PWC soyoustillhavemore thantwotablespoons in your tank.I see yournitrate(NO3-)levelisstill 0whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You needtotestyourammoniatomakesure you are not havingan ammoniaspikeaswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<spikeaswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><aswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<aswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >> >> >> > (Links toarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right sideunderArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalfOfcheeseymicron03Sent:Tuesday,September30,200810:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> :[AquaticLife]TodayswaterIfilledup the tanktoday (it was gettinglow) Iadded 6.6gallons tothe35gallon tankso its asfull as it should be.Iretested waterandherearetodays stats(sundays statsin these) PH 8 (8)No2-.8(1.6)No30(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74(80) my heaterwasnt working thismorningIput4tablespoons in the tank lastweek (followthe box directionsbutwithless)Ihadsince taken and did a 40%water changeand did notaddanymoresalt.Iknowmytank is overstocked. I didntplan ongetting the shark,itwasarescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do planongetting rid of it,butasofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it withallof thehealthissues.Asfor meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there rightnow(as longasthecarbon hastakenitall out) I was using quick cure for theichwhichseemstobegoneandmelafix for the other issues but it didntseemtobeworking.Ihaveheardgreat things about Mardel MaracynTwoandthoughtaboutgettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmailformyemail.I hadnoticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember Iwilltrytoreplyfromyahoosgroup ratherthan myemail.Sarah_____avast!Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > >> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > > ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > >:Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30811	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats

You're not in your first phase. I mis-spoke when I said that. I should have said you've completed your first phase. So now you're in your second phase of cycling. The Nitrogen Cycle = ammonia > nitrite > nitrate and technically there's a third stage of bacteria that can consume nitrates but we don't fool with them very often in freshwater systems since the nitrates are easy enough to control with our weekly 25% PWC's. You are technically on schedule since it can take 6-8 weeks to fully cycle a tank from scratch. It often takes longer when cycling with fish since you have to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels lower than if you were fishless cycling. Yet another reason to fishless cycle using a 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia and not having to worry about the fish and doing all them PWC's. I have detailed instructions on my blog about fishless cycling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:52 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats 3-4 weeks in and I'm finally in my first phase of cycling? I'm leaving for work in 10 minutes I so I dont have time for a water change, and I'll be gone all night. That just sucks! If/when these fish do not make it, would it work to just kick my heater up all the way for a week or something to kill all the bad things? I hate the thought of having to tear down the hole tank and start over. I will if I have to, but man, that just sucks. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats OK. This is because you are well into your first phase of cycling so the ammoniaeating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony to handle theammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The next phase will bethe nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitrite to nitratebut until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.I believe you are still running a high level of salt so that will partiallyprotect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get the nitritelevel down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two. Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replace theremoved salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now but hopefullyyou do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replace with thePWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water and slowlypour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DO NOTpour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] water statsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% water change andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs the nitrite (NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm isWAYHIGH.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] water statsIfinally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todays stats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77I put in theprime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwill not make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10 gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallest to cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwith maracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned my lessonabout taking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix is notnearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It's OKfor treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing of otherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming, properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackinto excellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem can catch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick. Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can also causescale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you called pineconing) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also. Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternal digestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish is consuminginstead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish as nutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish? I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was since ithas possibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a new parasite/bacteria intoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, which unfortunately mayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean the entire tank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-like paste and/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of the water andvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strong salt watersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfilter system runningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetank again untilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Then refill withfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank for fish againand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking around at otherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things in the nextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be ready to makeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cycle hascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.I wastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking atthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They had bothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size but hisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the dead onebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales were gone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought the hole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with the melafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking out like a pinecone but the goldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish fromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of what you are seeing? Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind of remember it beingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads got pretty convoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas of what you couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks before throwing thingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it could simply bethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tank so itmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish are not armoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlid tanks sincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves in an oftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot about HITH inthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the number of tanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it's not justan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't a festering typeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting in the head,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting larger breeds ofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related to diet andwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which are the onesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their lives in lesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed proper diets becausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only make the waterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are very BIG fishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55G tanks. Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinin their diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommend theminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatis the bareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as much proteinin theirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterquality issueswhen comparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles I have in myfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learned about thisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentand more definitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsold and based onthe best sciencereferences available at the timetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phpht tp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <timetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phph ttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <theywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp: //www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <theywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp: //www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> ><werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://w ww.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://ww w.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://ww w.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://ww w.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> >><written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www. worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> ><written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.w orldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> > > > VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyIassumed dropsy because of the pinecone shaped he has this morningbutafterreading more he is not bloted,instead he is super skinny thismorningitpretty well happened over night. Heis still breathing but isprettywellbeing pushed around by the flow of waterand picked at by myothergoldfish.The other goldfish is starting to get hisscales pulling offalittle aswell but is still swimming. the hold inthe headwith the catfishisjustthat, a hold in the side of his head. at first Ithought it was justasoreso I never mentioned anything but then startedreading for thegoldfishandcame upon that.Sarah"With kids there's noguarantee, but you justdealwith life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a scriptof what was to be,Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways findthestrength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyHow did youcome tothe conclusion it was dropsy for thegoldfish andHITHfor the IDShark(catfish)? Those are both rather rarediseases. I donotrecall seeinganyposts by you with any problems or symptomsrelatedtoeither ofthesediseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Linkstoarticles referencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 2008 8:51AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticli fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]dropsySo Iwokeup this morning and my smallergoldfish has dropsy. I newsomthingwaswrongbut couldnt figure out what. I amassuming my other has it aswellbuthavenot been able to find him yet :-(.ALso my id shark has holeinthehead. So,I guess I will just wait out thesefish surely it cannotbemuchlonger beforeIT happens. Once it does, do Irecycle the tank orjustdowater changes?Sarah"With kids there's noguarantee, but you justdealwithlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a scriptof what was to be,Iprobablywould have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways findthestrengthto meet whatever comes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep2008 21:49:09-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread(wasRe: Todayswater) (thatwill keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... yougotit right onthe money withyour filtration, carbon,etc.I would waitonadding plants untilall of thefish are healthy andyou'vedone enoughPWC'sto have removed themajority ofthe salt. Then,whenbuying your plants,donot add the plants to thetank untilyou'vecleanedthem and quarantinedthemto make sure they are snailfreeanddisease free.To keep the plants"fed"while in quarantine, youcanjustremove some ofthe tank water withthehigher nitrates, phosphates,etc.anduse that forthe plants. You can useaclean 5G bucket fortheplantsquarantine periodand place it near awindowbut not in direct sunsotheyget enoughlighting. Here's a coupleofthreads/articles onsanitizingplantsthatIhaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/foru m/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Le nny <onsanitizingplantsthatIhaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/for um/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686L enny> <Ihaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=144 5http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <Ihaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=144 5http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> ><haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=144 5http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny <haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> <haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > >>>(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right sideunderArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:Aqu aticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 20089:24PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticli fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny,this wasnt me,Sarah. lol I did get anew heaterthough:-) Itsa submersiablewith athermostat. My fishes will lovemetonight. Ialsotook your advice onyourblog about doing surgery onmymarineland200filter cartridge. This way Icanstill filter the water evenifit hasmedsin it. I will just need to pickupsome carbon to filter outthemedswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to thepetstore for it tomorrow,andwouldalsolike some new plants. Should I waittoadd any and dosomemorewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more?Orshouldtheybefine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdealwith lifeasitcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be,Iprobablywouldhaverun scaredthe other way. However, you always findthestrengthtomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FORTHEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLif e%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep2008 21:16:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife]Re:Todays waterFirstIwant tostate that I'm alittle confused. I was replyingtoSarahHuss inthisthread andnow it's BillScott. Are you all one inthesame?Or maybeyouswitched emailaccounts sincethe Hotmail accountwaslosingall oftheformatting on prioremails in thethread. Let me know soIdon'thavetoaddress you as "Hey You!"LOLIt'sinteresting that thenitratescamedownalthough it could just betheJungletest strips not beingasaccurate butifyou did use Prime, thenitcouldpossibly have an effect onthenitratelevelas well.I think you shouldredothe baseline test and useyour APItestkitandJungle test strips just soyoucan see howtheycompare.Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brandteststrips showedtheteststripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Isthe GHcoming outas25degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0degreesafter 24hours?Ifso, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers addedbyyourutility thatisgiving afalse positive right out thetap, thenonceit'sexposed toair/light,itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of thewater.Thismeans youreally donothave to worry about it IMOas it willnotlikelyaffect yourwaterparametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH,youlooknear perfectat150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go downinyourtank as well duetothe ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish,etc.)ofthe tank using upthecarbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.Itseemsthatall of your testsstartedoutreally high and then went downtomorenormallevels. I'm not sure ifit'sdueto buffers in the tap waterortheJungletest strips. If youcanduplicatethe test using API's testkitsforammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH,KHand GH, Ithink you wouldgetmoreconsistentnumbers but I think your waterisfine forthe majorityoffishoutthere.Lenny VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > >(Linkstoarticles referenced abovelistedonthe right side underArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:Aquatic Life@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>OnBehalf OfWilliamJ.ScottSent:Tuesday, September30,20084:57PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLi fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><ma ilto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>:[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did awater base linelike yousuggestedand thereadingsare as followsusingJungleteststrips.Outoftap24hrs48hrs----------------------------- -----------------------------NITRATE201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 000KH(Alkalinity)300150150PH7.27.87.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24hrsand 80f at48hrs(temptakenwith digital thermometer) Ammoniareadingswerenottaken.Myinitial email was because of high KHreadings.(UsingAPIliquidtestmedia). 26 dropsto turn water from blue togreen.(Dateonbottle0708).Can you let me knowhow to proceed from here? Ijustdid25%waterchangesin all my tanks usingonly Prime in the water, andthenagain3dayslater.A big difference inreadings. Also, the fish seemedtobemoreactive,andcolorsgotmoreintense.Thanks,BillScottSo.California.- ------OriginalMessage-------From:Lenny V. akaGoldLennyDate:9/30/200810:35:15AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [NortonAntiSpam]RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That'sgoodthatyour ammonia isstillat0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitratetestkitso you willknowwhenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting todotheirjob. For thelongrun,you will use your nitratetest far more oftenthantheammoniaandnitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one oftheteststhatdeterminehowoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentagePWCyouneedto dotokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pHandKHasmyprimarytests in establishing myroutines on mytanks.Ifyouarerefillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want todothe48hourbaselinetest onthat water as well so you can knowwhatyourstartingpoint isgoingto be.While they might call it "springwater",allit is goingto beisfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn'tdrilldownintoanunderwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place.;-)Ifatsomepoint inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience orthecoststartstoaddup,there are under-sink filter systems that willdothesamething.I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhenIdidrescueaBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothewaterfrommytap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn'tmuchwaterbeingchangedandIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntilI wasable tosetupa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank,Iwentbacktousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do youhaveonyourtank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if anyheat.Thebulbsarecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescentbulb,theydoputoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that maybeanoption.Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep theheatinatnightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours withthetankwrappedinablanket. That would atleast give the fish somedarktimewhilenotallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely wantaheaterforthetropicalfish.If youreadovertheMongabayprofile><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hy popthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30812	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: water stats

If your current fish do not make it, you can complete the cycle by using plain ammonia as Lenny proposes. I don’t have the complete list of problems in my head, but I think I recall they were all/mostly caused by the ammonia and nitrites, so nothing to kill by raising the temperature. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats You're not in your first phase. I mis-spoke when I said that. I should have said you've completed your first phase. So now you're in your second phase of cycling. The Nitrogen Cycle = ammonia > nitrite > nitrate and technically there's a third stage of bacteria that can consume nitrates but we don't fool with them very often in freshwater systems since the nitrates are easy enough to control with our weekly 25% PWC's. You are technically on schedule since it can take 6-8 weeks to fully cycle a tank from scratch. It often takes longer when cycling with fish since you have to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels lower than if you were fishless cycling. Yet another reason to fishless cycle using a 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia and not having to worry about the fish and doing all them PWC's. I have detailed instructions on my blog about fishless cycling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:52 PM To: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats 3-4 weeks in and I'm finally in my first phase of cycling? I'm leaving for work in 10 minutes I so I dont have time for a water change, and I'll be gone all night. That just sucks! If/when these fish do not make it, would it work to just kick my heater up all the way for a week or something to kill all the bad things? I hate the thought of having to tear down the hole tank and start over. I will if I have to, but man, that just sucks. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats OK. This is because you are well into your first phase of cycling so the ammoniaeating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony to handle theammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The next phase will bethe nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitrite to nitratebut until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.I believe you are still running a high level of salt so that will partiallyprotect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get the nitritelevel down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two. Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replace theremoved salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now but hopefullyyou do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replace with thePWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water and slowlypour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DO NOTpour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] water statsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% water change andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs the nitrite (NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm isWAYHIGH.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> blogspot.com-----Original> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> blogspot.com-----Original> > > Message-----From:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo:aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] water statsIfinally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todays stats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77I put in theprime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwill not make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10 gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallest to cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwith maracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned my lessonabout taking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix is notnearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It's OKfor treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing of otherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming, properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackinto excellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem can catch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick. Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can also causescale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you called pineconing) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also. Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternal digestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish is consuminginstead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish as nutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish? I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was since ithas possibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a new parasite/bacteria intoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, which unfortunately mayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean the entire tank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-like paste and/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of the water andvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strong salt watersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfilter system runningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetank again untilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Then refill withfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank for fish againand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking around at otherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things in the nextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be ready to makeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cycle hascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PMTo:aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.I wastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking atthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They had bothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size but hisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the dead onebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales were gone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought the hole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with the melafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking out like a pinecone but the goldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish fromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of what you are seeing? Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind of remember it beingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads got pretty convoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas of what you couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks before throwing thingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it could simply bethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tank so itmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish are not armoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlid tanks sincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves in an oftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot about HITH inthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the number of tanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it's not justan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't a festering typeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting in the head,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting larger breeds ofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related to diet andwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which are the onesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their lives in lesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed proper diets becausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only make the waterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are very BIG fishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55G tanks. Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinin their diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommend theminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatis the bareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as much proteinin theirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterquality issueswhen comparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles I have in myfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learned about thisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentand more definitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsold and based onthe best sciencereferences available at the timetheywerewritten <timetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phph t> .http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phpht tp://www.worldcichl <tp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> ids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <timetheywerewritten <timetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phph > .http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phph ttp://www.worldcich <ttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> lids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <theywerewritten. <theywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp: > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp: //www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <theywerewritten. <theywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp: > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp: //www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> ><werewritten. <werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/w> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://w ww.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <werewritten. <werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/ww> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://ww w.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <werewritten. <werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/ww> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://ww w.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <werewritten. <werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/ww> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://ww w.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> >><written.http: <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/www.> //www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www. worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http: <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/www.wo> //www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <written.http: <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/www.wo> //www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http: <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/www.wo> //www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> ><written.http: <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/www.w> //www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.w orldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http: <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/www.wo> //www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> <written.http: <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/www.wo> //www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny <written.http: <written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp:/www.wo> //www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.wo rldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> > > > VasbinderFishBlog- <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <VasbinderFishBlog- <VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <Blog-http:// <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http:// <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08AMTo:aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyIassumed dropsy because of the pinecone shaped he has this morningbutafterreading more he is not bloted,instead he is super skinny thismorningitpretty well happened over night. Heis still breathing but isprettywellbeing pushed around by the flow of waterand picked at by myothergoldfish.The other goldfish is starting to get hisscales pulling offalittle aswell but is still swimming. the hold inthe headwith the catfishisjustthat, a hold in the side of his head. at first Ithought it was justasoreso I never mentioned anything but then startedreading for thegoldfishandcame upon that.Sarah"With kids there's noguarantee, but you justdealwith life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a scriptof what was to be,Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways findthestrength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyHow did youcome tothe conclusion it was dropsy for thegoldfish andHITHfor the IDShark(catfish)? Those are both rather rarediseases. I donotrecall seeinganyposts by you with any problems or symptomsrelatedtoeither ofthesediseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http:// <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http:// <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Linkstoarticles referencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 2008 8:51AMTo:aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticli fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]dropsySo Iwokeup this morning and my smallergoldfish has dropsy. I newsomthingwaswrongbut couldnt figure out what. I amassuming my other has it aswellbuthavenot been able to find him yet :-(.ALso my id shark has holeinthehead. So,I guess I will just wait out thesefish surely it cannotbemuchlonger beforeIT happens. Once it does, do Irecycle the tank orjustdowater changes?Sarah"With kids there's noguarantee, but you justdealwithlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a scriptof what was to be,Iprobablywould have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways findthestrengthto meet whatever comes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep2008 21:49:09-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread(wasRe: Todayswater) (thatwill keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... yougotit right onthe money withyour filtration, carbon,etc.I would waitonadding plants untilall of thefish are healthy andyou'vedone enoughPWC'sto have removed themajority ofthe salt. Then,whenbuying your plants,donot add the plants to thetank untilyou'vecleanedthem and quarantinedthemto make sure they are snailfreeanddisease free.To keep the plants"fed"while in quarantine, youcanjustremove some ofthe tank water withthehigher nitrates, phosphates,etc.anduse that forthe plants. You can useaclean 5G bucket fortheplantsquarantine periodand place it near awindowbut not in direct sunsotheyget enoughlighting. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30813	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/2/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

It may be an algae bloom, they can come on quite fast. Clean up the tank (which you have probably done by now). If the green is caused by the chlorophyll, it will gradually clear. If it is an algae bloom, it will likely get greener. If the former, do a couple of partial water changes a week, until it clears, if it is the latter, let it be, as it should clear itself. That is hard to do, but it is the only guaranteed method. Note your water parameters, and if they are out of whack, when they start to normalize, the algae will start to disappear. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another Green Water Question My fish didn't think they were being fed enough so they started tearing apart the aquarium plants that I recently put in the tank. I came home and found my water green and the filter intake clogged with shredded plant pieces. Unless I'm wrong I'm 100% certain that my water is colored green by chlorophyll and not algae an algae bloom cuz it wasn't green when I left home and hasn't gotten any greener over the last 24hrs. Is this something I can leave alone?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30814	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

My cichlids shredded romaine overnight and I woke to a tank floating with green bits. The water was not tinted green however. I'm thinking it's not chlorophyll but an algae bloom. And plant eating fish don't eat them just when they haven't been fed enough.it's what they do, LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another Green Water Question It may be an algae bloom, they can come on quite fast. Clean up the tank (which you have probably done by now). If the green is caused by the chlorophyll, it will gradually clear. If it is an algae bloom, it will likely get greener. If the former, do a couple of partial water changes a week, until it clears, if it is the latter, let it be, as it should clear itself. That is hard to do, but it is the only guaranteed method. Note your water parameters, and if they are out of whack, when they start to normalize, the algae will start to disappear. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another Green Water Question My fish didn't think they were being fed enough so they started tearing apart the aquarium plants that I recently put in the tank. I came home and found my water green and the filter intake clogged with shredded plant pieces. Unless I'm wrong I'm 100% certain that my water is colored green by chlorophyll and not algae an algae bloom cuz it wasn't green when I left home and hasn't gotten any greener over the last 24hrs. Is this something I can leave alone? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30815	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

Parameters were out of wack. My nitrites were a bit high, but my ammonia is stable. If a leaf is bruised enough it will leach chlorophyll. I figured that since the filter intake was severely clogged the filter was pulling the chlorophyll right out of the leaf bits that were stuck to the intake. I pulled all my plants out of the tank (poor gouramis). and shook them clean in the tank water. pieces of plant leaves went everywhere! I siphoned first to remove as much debris as I could then filtered the water back in, spent almost an hour trying to catch leaf bits with a net, and then did a more thorough siphon and a 25% water change. I haven't returned my plants back to the water yet, I let the filter filter the water over night, and the tank is still a bit clowdy, but not like yesterday. I am noticing some green algae starting to form on the tank walls though. It is barely noticeable, but its there. Not adjusting for the cloudiness of the water these are my water parameters: temp 86 ph 7.8 ammonia .25 - .5 nitrites 5ppm nitrates 5ppm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30816	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

You are probably right, but we will see.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30817	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Group Picture

what kind of fish is that?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

I think you have your temp up due to Ich but if not, it's too high for everyday purposes. You need to use Prime as a water conditioner right now to take care of the ammonia. With a pH of 7.8 and a temp of 86F, even a low level of ammonia becomes TOXIC. See these pages for more info/charts on how pH and temp affect ammonia toxicity. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html and this page... http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html If you are fighting Ich, then the salt will help fight against nitrite poisoning but you NEED to do a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two, until you get the nitrites back down to 1.0ppm or less. Make sure you match your water temps, etc. or do smaller PWC's of 10% so you don't change the temp too much, too fast. If you are not fighting Ich, then you need to slowly lower your temp back down at the rate of no more than 1F to 2F per day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Another Green Water Question Parameters were out of wack. My nitrites were a bit high, but my ammonia is stable. If a leaf is bruised enough it will leach chlorophyll. I figured that since the filter intake was severely clogged the filter was pulling the chlorophyll right out of the leaf bits that were stuck to the intake. I pulled all my plants out of the tank (poor gouramis). and shook them clean in the tank water. pieces of plant leaves went everywhere! I siphoned first to remove as much debris as I could then filtered the water back in, spent almost an hour trying to catch leaf bits with a net, and then did a more thorough siphon and a 25% water change. I haven't returned my plants back to the water yet, I let the filter filter the water over night, and the tank is still a bit clowdy, but not like yesterday. I am noticing some green algae starting to form on the tank walls though. It is barely noticeable, but its there. Not adjusting for the cloudiness of the water these are my water parameters: temp 86 ph 7.8 ammonia .25 - .5 nitrites 5ppm nitrates 5ppm _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 11:03:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30819	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

Yes. I was dealing with ich. I haven't seen any ich lately, and all my fish are now very active. I know why I'm having a nitrite spike; or at least what is contributing to it. I've been cleaning my filter floss with the kitchen sprayer to help reduce the ammonia source. I didn't realize that was killing off my bacteria. I'm gonna stop doing that from now on.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

I know I have repeatedly urged you to look at the A to Z of fishkeeping page on my blog, including my long article on proper filter maintenance and cleaning. If you would have taken the time to read that article and take the two FREE online tutorials, you and your fish would be so much better off today and you might not have had so many of your fish die and/or get sick. It seems you're more interested in experimenting (as you've previously stated) on your fish than keeping them alive and healthy as pets... and that's a shame. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Another Green Water Question Yes. I was dealing with ich. I haven't seen any ich lately, and all my fish are now very active. I know why I'm having a nitrite spike; or at least what is contributing to it. I've been cleaning my filter floss with the kitchen sprayer to help reduce the ammonia source. I didn't realize that was killing off my bacteria. I'm gonna stop doing that from now on. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 1:11:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30821	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Cycling Question

Okay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge from my 2.5 gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long til this tank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media? I'm trying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lol Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats OK. This is because you are into your first phase of cycling so the ammoniaeating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony to handle theammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The next phase will bethe nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitrite to nitratebut until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.I believe you are still running a high level of salt so that will partiallyprotect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get the nitritelevel down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two. Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replace theremoved salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now but hopefullyyou do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replace with thePWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water and slowlypour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DO NOTpour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] water statsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% water change andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs the nitrite (NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm isWAYHIGH.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] water statsIfinally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todays stats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77I put in theprime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwill not make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10 gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallest to cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwith maracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned my lessonabout taking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix is notnearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It's OKfor treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing of otherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming, properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackinto excellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem can catch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick. Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can also causescale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you called pineconing) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also. Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternal digestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish is consuminginstead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish as nutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish? I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was since ithas possibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a new parasite/bacteria intoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, which unfortunately mayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean the entire tank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-like paste and/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of the water andvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strong salt watersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfilter system runningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetank again untilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Then refill withfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank for fish againand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking around at otherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things in the nextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be ready to makeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cycle hascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.I wastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking atthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They had bothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size but hisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the dead onebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales were gone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought the hole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with the melafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking out like a pinecone but the goldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish fromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of what you are seeing? Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind of remember it beingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads got pretty convoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas of what you couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks before throwing thingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it could simply bethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tank so itmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish are not armoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlid tanks sincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves in an oftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot about HITH inthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the number of tanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it's not justan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't a festering typeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting in the head,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting larger breeds ofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related to diet andwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which are the onesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their lives in lesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed proper diets becausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only make the waterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are very BIG fishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55G tanks. Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinin their diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommend theminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatis the bareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as much proteinin theirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterquality issueswhen comparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles I have in myfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learned about thisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentand more definitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsold and based onthe best sciencereferences available at the timetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<theywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny><werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<werewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny>><written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny><written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny<written.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.htmlLenny> > > VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:08AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyIassumed dropsy because of the pinecone shaped he has this morningbutafterreading more he is not bloted,instead he is super skinny thismorningitpretty well happened over night. Heis still breathing but isprettywellbeing pushed around by the flow of waterand picked at by myothergoldfish.The other goldfish is starting to get hisscales pulling offalittle aswell but is still swimming. the hold inthe headwith the catfishisjustthat, a hold in the side of his head. at first Ithought it was justasoreso I never mentioned anything but then startedreading for thegoldfishandcame upon that.Sarah"With kids there's noguarantee, but you justdealwith life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a scriptof what was to be,Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways findthestrength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 10:54:44 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyHow did youcome tothe conclusion it was dropsy for thegoldfish andHITHfor the IDShark(catfish)? Those are both rather rarediseases. I donotrecall seeinganyposts by you with any problems or symptomsrelatedtoeither ofthesediseases.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Linkstoarticles referencedabovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year,Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 2008 8:51AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]dropsySo Iwokeup this morning and my smallergoldfish has dropsy. I newsomthingwaswrongbut couldnt figure out what. I amassuming my other has it aswellbuthavenot been able to find him yet :-(.ALso my id shark has holeinthehead. So,I guess I will just wait out thesefish surely it cannotbemuchlonger beforeIT happens. Once it does, do Irecycle the tank orjustdowater changes?Sarah"With kids there's noguarantee, but you justdealwithlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a scriptof what was to be,Iprobablywould have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways findthestrengthto meet whatever comes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep2008 21:49:09-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Sarah Huss' thread(wasRe: Todayswater) (thatwill keepthem straight. LOL)Hi Sarah,Yep... yougotit right onthe money withyour filtration, carbon,etc.I would waitonadding plants untilall of thefish are healthy andyou'vedone enoughPWC'sto have removed themajority ofthe salt. Then,whenbuying your plants,donot add the plants to thetank untilyou'vecleanedthem and quarantinedthemto make sure they are snailfreeanddisease free.To keep the plants"fed"while in quarantine, youcanjustremove some ofthe tank water withthehigher nitrates, phosphates,etc.anduse that forthe plants. You can useaclean 5G bucket fortheplantsquarantine periodand place it near awindowbut not in direct sunsotheyget enoughlighting. Here's a coupleofthreads/articles onsanitizingplantsthatIhaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<Ihaveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<haveinmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<inmyfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>>><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<myfavoritesfolder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>>>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny>><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny><folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny<folder.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686Lenny> > > >>VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >>>(Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right sideunderArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 20089:24PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterYeah, Lenny,this wasnt me,Sarah. lol I did get anew heaterthough:-) Itsa submersiablewith athermostat. My fishes will lovemetonight. Ialsotook your advice onyourblog about doing surgery onmymarineland200filter cartridge. This way Icanstill filter the water evenifit hasmedsin it. I will just need to pickupsome carbon to filter outthemedswhenneeded. I'm making a trip to thepetstore for it tomorrow,andwouldalsolike some new plants. Should I waittoadd any and dosomemorewaterchanges for the salt to be removed some more?Orshouldtheybefine?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdealwith lifeasitcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be,Iprobablywouldhaverun scaredthe other way. However, you always findthestrengthtomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FORTHEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Tue,30 Sep2008 21:16:58-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife]Re:Todays waterFirstIwant tostate that I'm alittle confused. I was replyingtoSarahHuss inthisthread andnow it's BillScott. Are you all one inthesame?Or maybeyouswitched emailaccounts sincethe Hotmail accountwaslosingall oftheformatting on prioremails in thethread. Let me know soIdon'thavetoaddress you as "Hey You!"LOLIt'sinteresting that thenitratescamedownalthough it could just betheJungletest strips not beingasaccurate butifyou did use Prime, thenitcouldpossibly have an effect onthenitratelevelas well.I think you shouldredothe baseline test and useyour APItestkitandJungle test strips just soyoucan see howtheycompare.Mypreviouscomparison tests with Mardel brandteststrips showedtheteststripswerevery inconsistent in their readings.Isthe GHcoming outas25degrees ofGH out the tap and then going down to0degreesafter 24hours?Ifso, thenit's likely one or more of thebuffers addedbyyourutility thatisgiving afalse positive right out thetap, thenonceit'sexposed toair/light,itbreaks down and/or dissipatesout of thewater.Thismeans youreally donothave to worry about it IMOas it willnotlikelyaffect yourwaterparametersin your tank with 25%PWC's.For the KH,youlooknear perfectat150ppm (apx.8 dKH). This willconstantly go downinyourtank as well duetothe ecology(bacteria,critters, plants, fish,etc.)ofthe tank using upthecarbonatesas part oftheir life cycles.Itseemsthatall of your testsstartedoutreally high and then went downtomorenormallevels. I'm not sure ifit'sdueto buffers in the tap waterortheJungletest strips. If youcanduplicatethe test using API's testkitsforammonia,nitrite, nitrate, pH,KHand GH, Ithink you wouldgetmoreconsistentnumbers but I think your waterisfine forthe majorityoffishoutthere.Lenny VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Linkstoarticles referenced abovelistedonthe right side underArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>OnBehalf OfWilliamJ.ScottSent:Tuesday, September30,20084:57PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>:[AquaticLife]Re:TodayswaterHi Lenny,I did awater base linelike yousuggestedand thereadingsare as followsusingJungleteststrips.Outoftap24hrs48hrs----------------------------------------------------------NITRATE201010NITRITE .50 0GH 250 0TOTAL CHLORINE 000KH(Alkalinity)300150150PH7.27.87.2Water temp was 68f out of tap, 78f @ 24hrsand 80f at48hrs(temptakenwith digital thermometer) Ammoniareadingswerenottaken.Myinitial email was because of high KHreadings.(UsingAPIliquidtestmedia). 26 dropsto turn water from blue togreen.(Dateonbottle0708).Can you let me knowhow to proceed from here? Ijustdid25%waterchangesin all my tanks usingonly Prime in the water, andthenagain3dayslater.A big difference inreadings. Also, the fish seemedtobemoreactive,andcolorsgotmoreintense.Thanks,BillScottSo.California.-------OriginalMessage-------From:Lenny V. akaGoldLennyDate:9/30/200810:35:15AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [NortonAntiSpam]RE:[AquaticLife] Todays waterOK. That'sgoodthatyour ammonia isstillat0.0ppm. You really need toget that Nitratetestkitso you willknowwhenyour nitrite eating bacteriaare starting todotheirjob. For thelongrun,you will use your nitratetest far more oftenthantheammoniaandnitritetests. Your nitrate testkit will be one oftheteststhatdeterminehowoften you need to do yourPWC's and what percentagePWCyouneedto dotokeep the water quality ingood shape. I use nitrate, pHandKHasmyprimarytests in establishing myroutines on mytanks.Ifyouarerefillingyourbottles at one of those machines, you want todothe48hourbaselinetest onthat water as well so you can knowwhatyourstartingpoint isgoingto be.While they might call it "springwater",allit is goingto beisfilteredtap water. I'm betting they didn'tdrilldownintoanunderwaterspringbefore putting the vending machine in place.;-)Ifatsomepoint inthefuture, you decide that is an inconvenience orthecoststartstoaddup,there are under-sink filter systems that willdothesamething.I'veneverworried about filtering my water before althoughwhenIdidrescueaBettaafter Hurricane Katrina, I did acclimate him tothewaterfrommytap,butwith the Pur water filter on since it wasn'tmuchwaterbeingchangedandIwas doing daily 25% changes on his small vaseuntilI wasable tosetupa10G tank for him. Once I had him in the 10Gtank,Iwentbacktousingregular tap water for him.What kind of light do youhaveonyourtank?Ifit's fluorescent, it doesnot put out much, if anyheat.Thebulbsarecoolto the touch even whenlit. If it's an incandescentbulb,theydoputoutlots of heat so if youdo not have a heater, that maybeanoption.Youcouldalso wrap the tankin a blanket/quilt to help keep theheatinatnightandmaybe only turn outthe lights for four hours withthetankwrappedinablanket. That would atleast give the fish somedarktimewhilenotallowingthe tank temp to dropdown. You definitely wantaheaterforthetropicalfish.If youreadovertheMongabayprofile><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > >>><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > >>><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > >><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> ><http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html<http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html> > > > > > > >>>>ontheIDShark(actually a catfish), you'll see that theyareverynervousfishwithpooreyesight, are herbivores and as you know,aresupposed togetveryBIGso itcould be that it is just lookingformorefood.Catfishareoftenscavengers in the wild so they spend a lotoftimeforagingforfood. Idonot see it mentioned in that profilebutcatfisharequiteoftennocturnalbut possibly not for this one. Do aGooglesearchonthescientificname toread up moreonit.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<onit.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><it.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<it.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<VasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > >(Linkstoarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right side underArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Tuesday,September 30, 200811:52AMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE:[AquaticLife]TodayswaterMy PH was 8, I meant to typeNH3forammonia not NO3.I haventgottenmytest for that yet. So I am nothaveanyammonia since I putthestresscoatin. That was last week and I haventhadaproblem since. Ihavedecidedtouse spring water. I started workingatgoodol' wally world soIwilljusttake my big bottles and fill themafterwork.This way I knowthatthewaterisnt my problem and it's something todowiththe bacteria inmytank.Ijust bought a heater but apparently itwasturneddown very far.Ikickeditup this morning when I noticed it but nowitsnotwanting to turnon,soit'sgoing back to the store when I getachance.Hopefully I gettoitsoon,because it gets cold in our house atnight.Wouldit mess withthefishmoreif I just left the light on to help keepitsheatuntil Igetaworkingheater again?Also, a wierd thing with my IDshark,Inever seehimsleep. Itseems likehe is always swimming, even at night.Iworknights andheisstill likethis when I get home. Is this normalbehaviourforthem, ordoIjust have ahyperactive fish?Sarah"With kidsthere'snoguarantee,butyoujust deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme ascriptof whatwastobe, I probably would have run scaredthe otherway.However,youalwaysfindthe strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILINGFORTHEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>:GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue,30 Sep200811:37:58-0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] TodayswaterOops.. Iforgot tomention.Keepat least the "pinchper 10G" of saltlevelinyour tankwhile youarestillhaving nitrite (NO2-)issues. Youstillhave morethan thatlevelrightnowsince you had addedfourtablespoons andthen did a 40%PWC soyoustillhavemore thantwotablespoons in your tank.I see yournitrate(NO3-)levelisstill 0whichmeans your tank is notcycling yet. You needtotestyourammoniatomakesure you are not havingan ammoniaspikeaswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<spikeaswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><aswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<aswell.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >> >> >> > (Links toarticlesreferencedabovelisted on the right sideunderArchives-Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalfOfcheeseymicron03Sent:Tuesday,September30,200810:10AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> :[AquaticLife]TodayswaterIfilledup the tanktoday (it was gettinglow) Iadded 6.6gallons tothe35gallon tankso its asfull as it should be.Iretested waterandherearetodays stats(sundays statsin these) PH 8 (8)No2-.8(1.6)No30(0)GH 8(9)KH 8 (9)Temp 74(80) my heaterwasnt working thismorningIput4tablespoons in the tank lastweek (followthe box directionsbutwithless)Ihadsince taken and did a 40%water changeand did notaddanymoresalt.Iknowmytank is overstocked. I didntplan ongetting the shark,itwasarescuesharkfrom a ciclid tank. I do planongetting rid of it,butasofright nowIcannot find anyone to take it withallof thehealthissues.Asfor meds,Ihave nothing but salt in there rightnow(as longasthecarbon hastakenitall out) I was using quick cure for theichwhichseemstobegoneandmelafix for the other issues but it didntseemtobeworking.Ihaveheardgreat things about Mardel MaracynTwoandthoughtaboutgettingthatforfuture use.On the side note, I use hotmailformyemail.I hadnoticedthattoo and itsreally obnoxious! If I remember Iwilltrytoreplyfromyahoosgroup ratherthan myemail.Sarah_____avast!Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > >> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > > ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > >:Outbound message clean. VirusDatabase(VPS): 081001-0, 10/01/2008Testedon:10/1/2008 10:54:44 AMavast! -copyright(c) 1988-2008 ALWILSoftware.[Non-text portions of this messagehavebeenremoved]________________________________avast!Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> ><http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > >> >:Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081001-0,10/01/2008Testedon:10/1/2008 11:23:59 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008ALWILSoftware._____avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30822	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

I've been reading your blog, and I am following your directions. Nor was I going for ich either. I knew that temp change causes ich, but wasn't aware of the other factors that cause ich. I have a learning disability and my comprehension skills are lacking. I don't learn well from just reading unfortunatly, and need applied knowledge to grasp what I've learned from reading. That doesn't mean I want to put my fish through hell though. What I was going after was the nitrogen cycle and wanted to know the limits of a small set up because I'll be setting up around tank somewhere between 500 and 1000 gallons in my back yard. I would rather mess up on a small 20 gallon than a large scale, and more expensive system used to grow livestock and vegetables. That would be a real shame. As far as reading your blog I have alot of catching up to do and I can only retain so much at once. I started reading the a to z guide and had to stop to get something else done. I'm reading it now. To let you know though, your blog is kinda hard to navigate for me. I don't know if it is because the way the blog site is designed or what. I've had trouble finding the information on the fishless cycling part of your blog. I click on the link at the side of the page and I had to dig through other information to find where that info was specifically. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30823	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Reference Link Needed

I want to figure out how many ppm bacteria will convert in one day. Does anyone have a recourse for that?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30824	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Question

I think you would have been better off NOT using the Cycle product. It simply does not work as advertised and actually made the cycling conditions worse for me when I tried it a few years back. Remember that the nitrifying bacteria in the filter media will only grow a large enough colony to handle the bioload of the tank that it is on. If you only have one fish, then the filter will only have enough N-bacteria to handle the bioload of one fish. If you have ten fish, then the N-bacteria colony will be 10 times larger to handle the bioload of the ten fish. If the filter has been running on the 2.5G for several weeks and was properly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it will have enough of the good N-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10G tank. If you moved the mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added more fish, then you would put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until the N-bacteria colony grows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload that more fish would create. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies and then do a PWC or two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also do PWC's on the 2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and then just move the fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel or decorations in the 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning on a different substrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colander or stocking so it is easy to remove in a few weeks so that your new substrate can grow the bacteria that it needs as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:49 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling Question Okay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge from my 2.5 gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long til this tank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media? I'm trying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lol Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats OK. This is because you are into your first phase of cycling so the ammoniaeating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony to handle theammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The next phase will bethe nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitrite to nitratebut until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.I believe you are still running a high level of salt so that will partiallyprotect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get the nitritelevel down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two. Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replace theremoved salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now but hopefullyyou do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replace with thePWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water and slowlypour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DO NOTpour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] water statsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% water change andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs the nitrite (NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm isWAYHIGH.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] water statsIfinally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todays stats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77I put in theprime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwill not make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10 gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallest to cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwith maracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned my lessonabout taking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix is notnearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It's OKfor treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing of otherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming, properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackinto excellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem can catch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick. Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can also causescale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you called pineconing) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also. Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternal digestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish is consuminginstead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish as nutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish? I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was since ithas possibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a new parasite/bacteria intoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, which unfortunately mayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean the entire tank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-like paste and/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of the water andvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strong salt watersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfilter system runningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetank again untilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Then refill withfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank for fish againand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking around at otherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things in the nextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be ready to makeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cycle hascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.I wastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking atthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They had bothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size but hisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the dead onebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales were gone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought the hole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with the melafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking out like a pinecone but the goldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish fromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of what you are seeing? Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind of remember it beingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads got pretty convoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas of what you couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks before throwing thingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it could simply bethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tank so itmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish are not armoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlid tanks sincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves in an oftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot about HITH inthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the number of tanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it's not justan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't a festering typeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting in the head,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting larger breeds ofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related to diet andwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which are the onesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their lives in lesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed proper diets becausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only make the waterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are very BIG fishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55G tanks. Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinin their diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommend theminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatis the bareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as much proteinin theirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterquality issueswhen comparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles I have in myfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learned about thisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentand more definitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsold and based onthe best sciencereferences available at the timetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phpht tp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 2:34:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30825	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

The "Fishless Cycling" link http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html is right near the top of the A to Z page. It's highlighted in blue in the 4th paragraph from the top which is visible without having to scroll down on a decent sized monitor but if you have a small monitor, you'll have to scroll down just a little bit. I have many other good links to Fishless Cycling but the above is a fairly simple explanation to follow and uses the SeaChem Ammonia Alert that you've asked about, instead of daily testing. Read all the way through this article including the many references down near the bottom. When surfing the net or a new website, it's best to read over the main page you are on and then open any links in new windows/tabs to read separately from the main page so you don't lose your place. You should probably print things out and then write or type out notes from what you are reading. Taking notes greatly improves memory retention over simply reading something. Watching it on TV is even worse. Listening to something on the radio gives much more retention than watching TV but not as much as reading something and not as much as taking notes while listening or reading. Taking notes (typing or writing) would be your best bet in comprehending in your case. I see a 2nd post where you are asking about the ppm that the N-bacteria will convert each day. This depends on the size of the filter and filter media to a certain level but if you have a sufficient sized filter system for a tank, it should be able to handle at least 4-5ppm of ammonia each day.... which is the maximum recommended bioload for a tank. If you have too many fish or an undersized tank, the bioload may be more than 4-5ppm per day so then you would need oversized filtration. There used to be some very good scientific, peer-reviewed papers, all about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria, written by Dr. Tim Hovenac for Marineland when he was developing the Bio-Wheel and Bio-Spira but all of them papers have been removed from the site since Dr. Tim and Marineland parted ways. Dr. Tim now has his own site http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com but I haven't seen the studies there... well, I take that back. I just took a look at his site again and he as a link to "Scientific Papers" on this page... http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/Library_Presentations.ht ml. I know there is litigation going on between them concerning various patents, etc. so these may be new papers that he has recently written since the older studies may be the property of Marineland so Dr. Tim may not be able to re-publish them on his own site. Considering your previously mentioned learning difficulties, I'm not sure these scientific studies would make very easy reading. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Another Green Water Question I've been reading your blog, and I am following your directions. Nor was I going for ich either. I knew that temp change causes ich, but wasn't aware of the other factors that cause ich. I have a learning disability and my comprehension skills are lacking. I don't learn well from just reading unfortunatly, and need applied knowledge to grasp what I've learned from reading. That doesn't mean I want to put my fish through hell though. What I was going after was the nitrogen cycle and wanted to know the limits of a small set up because I'll be setting up around tank somewhere between 500 and 1000 gallons in my back yard. I would rather mess up on a small 20 gallon than a large scale, and more expensive system used to grow livestock and vegetables. That would be a real shame. As far as reading your blog I have alot of catching up to do and I can only retain so much at once. I started reading the a to z guide and had to stop to get something else done. I'm reading it now. To let you know though, your blog is kinda hard to navigate for me. I don't know if it is because the way the blog site is designed or what. I've had trouble finding the information on the fishless cycling part of your blog. I click on the link at the side of the page and I had to dig through other information to find where that info was specifically. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 2:55:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30826	From: Nedra	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30827	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

Type that into google and it should convert it if possible(at least as far as drops to teaspoons or gallons). The amout you would need to add would vary based on the volume of your tank Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

In general, 3-5 drops of ammonia per gallon, depending on the size of the drops, will raise the ammonia level to 4-5ppm. It also depends on the strength of the ammonia. Most bottles at the retail level will have 10% ammonium hydroxide but if it's a higher or lower percentage or the level is not stated in the ingredients, then you'll have to test if on a sample gallon of water to verify how many drops you would need per gallon. Also, if your water is treated with chloramines, when you add the dechlor product, you will likely end up with 0.5ppm of ammonia just from the tap water. Here's some more reading about fishless cycling from reliable websites. http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/flc-data.htm (a chart of someone's own fishless cycle with notes, mistakes, etc.... goes with link below for thetropicaltank.co.uk) http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861 http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/fishlesscycling.html http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598 http://thegab.org/Articles/FishlessCycling.html http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling2.htm http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml (one of my favorite articles since The Skeptical Aquarist goes over one of his first fishless cycles using his own urine... yes it will work if you can't find plain ammonia. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Type that into google and it should convert it if possible(at least as far as drops to teaspoons or gallons). The amout you would need to add would vary based on the volume of your tank Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 3:08:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 3:16:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30829	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

better yet 5 cups of water diluted in one million gallons. Dilute a little at a time, mix it together, test your water, and repeat untill you get an ammonia reading of 5ppm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30830	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

PPM is 1 part of chemical x to 1 million parts of water. It is a ratio. Just like cooking rice 1 part rice to 2 parts water. if you wanted to cook two cups of rice you would need 2cups rice, 4 cups water. As far as converting (assuming you could get a small enough measurring spoon, would depend on how much water is in your tank --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nedra" <terrierlover2002@...> wrote: > > Hi all! > What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? > > fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could > make > the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30831	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Reference Link Needed

The amount of ammonia or nitrite bacteria can consume will depend on the size of the bacterial colony. I am sure that someone somewhere, with too much time on their hands, or a government grant (pretty much the same thing), has done a calculation on how much one bacteria can consume during a day, but I sure as heck do not know where one would find that, other than, perhaps, a carefully crafted Google search string. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Reference Link Needed I want to figure out how many ppm bacteria will convert in one day. Does anyone have a recourse for that?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30832	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture

I am thinking African cichlid, but the name escapes me. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Group Picture what kind of fish is that?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30833	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Reference Link Needed

The bacteria colony grows to accommodate the food source you give them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Reference Link Needed I want to figure out how many ppm bacteria will convert in one day. Does anyone have a recourse for that? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30834	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture

Someone answered that a while back.I think it was a marine wrasse of some kind. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Group Picture I am thinking African cichlid, but the name escapes me. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:21 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Group Picture what kind of fish is that? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30835	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture

It does look like some Tang sandsifters though, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Group Picture I am thinking African cichlid, but the name escapes me. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:21 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Group Picture what kind of fish is that? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30836	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

ppm is equal to mg/l so if you have a syringe that is calibrated in milligrams (or milliliters (ml), (which is a very small measurement, i.e.-1,000 ml in a liter of water), you could convert your gallons to liters and then use the 4-5 mg/l. I did give you another less accurate measurement in an earlier post where it was 3-5 drops per gallon. It's hard to be more accurate than 3-5 drops per gallon since droppers are not calibrated very well. Here are my calculations for a 10G tank (38 liters). 4-5 mg/l (ppm) in a 10G tank = 152 to 190 milligrams(millilters). When dealing with water, milligrams is equal to milliliters and since the plain household ammonia is only 10% solution mixed with water, it should be close enough in weight to water that they can be converted similarly so for each 10G of water, you would add at least 150 ml of the plain ammonia and up to 190 ml or you could split the difference at 170ml of plain household ammonia for each 10G of water in the tank. 150ml is equal to around 30 teaspoons. 170ml is equal to around 34 teaspoons. I'm pretty sure I've calculated this correctly but I'm kind of doing it in my head so I could have something wrong. If anyone sees any problems with my calculations, please correct me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:16:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30837	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture

I thought we had discussed this before and it was some kind of marine fish? I'm guessing the OP is talking about the picture on the group homepage... http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Group Picture I am thinking African cichlid, but the name escapes me. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Group Picture what kind of fish is that? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:20:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30838	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture

Yep.. that was the species but even the ID'er could only say it was in the wrasse family but not give a full ID. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Group Picture Someone answered that a while back.I think it was a marine wrasse of some kind. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Group Picture I am thinking African cichlid, but the name escapes me. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:21 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Group Picture what kind of fish is that? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:22:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30839	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

Lenny, 150 milliliter = 30.432 620 431 Teaspoon [US] And, for those of us using British teaspoons, 150 milliliter = 42.234 095 673 Teaspoon [UK] \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? ppm is equal to mg/l so if you have a syringe that is calibrated in milligrams (or milliliters (ml), (which is a very small measurement, i.e.-1,000 ml in a liter of water), you could convert your gallons to liters and then use the 4-5 mg/l. I did give you another less accurate measurement in an earlier post where it was 3-5 drops per gallon. It's hard to be more accurate than 3-5 drops per gallon since droppers are not calibrated very well. Here are my calculations for a 10G tank (38 liters). 4-5 mg/l (ppm) in a 10G tank = 152 to 190 milligrams(millilters). When dealing with water, milligrams is equal to milliliters and since the plain household ammonia is only 10% solution mixed with water, it should be close enough in weight to water that they can be converted similarly so for each 10G of water, you would add at least 150 ml of the plain ammonia and up to 190 ml or you could split the difference at 170ml of plain household ammonia for each 10G of water in the tank. 150ml is equal to around 30 teaspoons. 170ml is equal to around 34 teaspoons. I'm pretty sure I've calculated this correctly but I'm kind of doing it in my head so I could have something wrong. If anyone sees any problems with my calculations, please correct me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:16:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30840	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

\\Steve//, Are you in the UK? Or was that for our UK members? Or did you get some heirloom silverware with extra British teaspoons off of eBay? ;-) I knew it was 30.4x teaspoons which is why I said "around 30" (last sentence of third paragraph). I wasn't going to try and get someone to guesstimate the .4 teaspoons. LOL Was I right on the rest of my math as far as 4-5ppm equaling 152-190ml equaling 30-34 teaspoons in 10G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Lenny, 150 milliliter = 30.432 620 431 Teaspoon [US] And, for those of us using British teaspoons, 150 milliliter = 42.234 095 673 Teaspoon [UK] \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? ppm is equal to mg/l so if you have a syringe that is calibrated in milligrams (or milliliters (ml), (which is a very small measurement, i.e.-1,000 ml in a liter of water), you could convert your gallons to liters and then use the 4-5 mg/l. I did give you another less accurate measurement in an earlier post where it was 3-5 drops per gallon. It's hard to be more accurate than 3-5 drops per gallon since droppers are not calibrated very well. Here are my calculations for a 10G tank (38 liters). 4-5 mg/l (ppm) in a 10G tank = 152 to 190 milligrams(millilters). When dealing with water, milligrams is equal to milliliters and since the plain household ammonia is only 10% solution mixed with water, it should be close enough in weight to water that they can be converted similarly so for each 10G of water, you would add at least 150 ml of the plain ammonia and up to 190 ml or you could split the difference at 170ml of plain household ammonia for each 10G of water in the tank. 150ml is equal to around 30 teaspoons. 170ml is equal to around 34 teaspoons. I'm pretty sure I've calculated this correctly but I'm kind of doing it in my head so I could have something wrong. If anyone sees any problems with my calculations, please correct me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:16:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:32:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 9:22:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30841	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

Thanks. The reason I used fishless cycling as an example is because someone outside the group was asking for help with that. I think my problem is I try to take too much information in at once. I got the prime you were talking about. It says that it converts ammonia to something my bio filter can break down. It also says that it detoxifies nitrites and nitrates. What does that mean, and will my nitrite test still read the same level of nitrites? Also, is that supposed to be instant, or does it take time dilute and react inside the tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30842	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: your opinion on this product

Right near the Prime was a product that is supposed to break up debris and release it into the water. As an aquaponics enthusiast that sounds like releasing minerals right into the water for my hydroponic system. As student of fish keeping I'm wondering if it is worth the money. I don't remember the name of the product, but does anyone have any experience with this kind of product?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30843	From: Chris	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Reference Link Needed

I get that. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > The bacteria colony grows to accommodate the food source you give them. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 3:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Reference Link Needed > > > > I want to figure out how many ppm bacteria will convert in one day. > Does anyone have a recourse for that? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

Without knowing the product, I would have to advise against it. Most of those types of products just turn your tank into a chemical waste dump worthy of being placed on the DEQ's Superfund List. In fact, 95% of the chemicals they sell at pet stores, for freshwater fish, are not needed and should be avoided. The ONLY thing I add to my tanks is a simple dechlor product that only treats the chlorine/chloramine and any heavy metals.... unless there is a reason to temporarily treat a problem like an illness. I think Prime's advertising of "detoxifying nitrates" is probably a little puffery on their part. Now the "detoxifying nitrites" is a possibility since sodium (as in sodium thiosulfate) is a big part of most dechlor products and salt is used to help prevent nitrite poisoning but if I'm not mistaken, you have to hyper-dose the tank with Prime to get this benefit. It's a lot cheaper to just use regular table salt. I remember participating in a thread about Prime a few years ago and nobody could show how Prime would detoxify nitrates, particularly since nitrates aren't really toxic to our FW fish at low levels (20-40ppm) for most fish. Prime does work instantly as a dechlor and probably for treating ammonia and protecting against nitrite poisoning... as would a pinch of salt per 10G for nitrite levels or 1ppm or less. Since your nitrite levels got so high, I'm hoping you still had a high level of salt in the tank. You can read all about Nitrates in \\Steve's// long post at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064, which I've also copy/pasted to my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/nitrates-long-explanation-thanks-to.ht ml since \\Steve// sent me a private email with a little more info that he never posted in the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Another Green Water Question Thanks. The reason I used fishless cycling as an example is because someone outside the group was asking for help with that. I think my problem is I try to take too much information in at once. I got the prime you were talking about. It says that it converts ammonia to something my bio filter can break down. It also says that it detoxifies nitrites and nitrates. What does that mean, and will my nitrite test still read the same level of nitrites? Also, is that supposed to be instant, or does it take time dilute and react inside the tank? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 9:48:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30845	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Reference Link Needed

Probably depends on what kind of a day this bacterium had, and how hungery it is (lol). Actually, the answers already painstakenly figured out and posted, are most likely about the closest you're going to get. It will depend on temperature too. Then too, and seriously, it may well depend upon whether you're referring to nitrosomonas (ammonia converting bacteria) or nitrobacters (nitrite converting bacteria), each possibly converting their "food" (organic waste compound) at different rates -- unless you're questioning the rate of the process as a whole. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I want to figure out how many ppm bacteria will convert in one day. > Does anyone have a recourse for that? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30846	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: your opinion on this product

I think you will hear us all say again and again do not put chemicals in your tank unless there is absolutely no alternative like dechlorinator if you don’t have a private well. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] your opinion on this product Right near the Prime was a product that is supposed to break up debris and release it into the water. As an aquaponics enthusiast that sounds like releasing minerals right into the water for my hydroponic system. As student of fish keeping I'm wondering if it is worth the money. I don't remember the name of the product, but does anyone have any experience with this kind of product? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30848	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

That was in case you were having tea with the Queen. One may need an ice breaker and what better way to break the ice than a comment on the silverware, in this case, real silver? Of course, one may also wish to consider metric teaspoons, in which case the measurement would be a flat 30 teaspoons. mg/kg=ppm= mg/L / Density Density is kg/L. In our case we are dealing with water. Density of fresh water is 1.0, roughly, so that can be discarded in any calculation with fresh water. (Marine people know their density as specific gravity is a measure of density.) The 0.4 is important in the measurement, since for 50 gallons, that would be an additional 2 teaspoons that would need to be added. The one thing that bothers me, though your calculation seem to be correct, is that the amount added seems to be excessive to me. We are talking a bit more than 1/2 cup for 10 gallons, and I don't remember that I used that much ammonia the last time I did a fishless cycle. Granted, it has been a long time, I prefer to just place a used sponge filter from another tank in for the immediate cycle, and I probably haven't done a fishless cycle in 15 years. I probably won't have time to try it this weekend, but someone could set up a 10 gallon tank, and measure the amount of ammonia added to bring the ppm up to 5. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? \\Steve//, Are you in the UK? Or was that for our UK members? Or did you get some heirloom silverware with extra British teaspoons off of eBay? ;-) I knew it was 30.4x teaspoons which is why I said "around 30" (last sentence of third paragraph). I wasn't going to try and get someone to guesstimate the .4 teaspoons. LOL Was I right on the rest of my math as far as 4-5ppm equaling 152-190ml equaling 30-34 teaspoons in 10G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Lenny, 150 milliliter = 30.432 620 431 Teaspoon [US] And, for those of us using British teaspoons, 150 milliliter = 42.234 095 673 Teaspoon [UK] \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? ppm is equal to mg/l so if you have a syringe that is calibrated in milligrams (or milliliters (ml), (which is a very small measurement, i.e.-1,000 ml in a liter of water), you could convert your gallons to liters and then use the 4-5 mg/l. I did give you another less accurate measurement in an earlier post where it was 3-5 drops per gallon. It's hard to be more accurate than 3-5 drops per gallon since droppers are not calibrated very well. Here are my calculations for a 10G tank (38 liters). 4-5 mg/l (ppm) in a 10G tank = 152 to 190 milligrams(millilters). When dealing with water, milligrams is equal to milliliters and since the plain household ammonia is only 10% solution mixed with water, it should be close enough in weight to water that they can be converted similarly so for each 10G of water, you would add at least 150 ml of the plain ammonia and up to 190 ml or you could split the difference at 170ml of plain household ammonia for each 10G of water in the tank. 150ml is equal to around 30 teaspoons. 170ml is equal to around 34 teaspoons. I'm pretty sure I've calculated this correctly but I'm kind of doing it in my head so I could have something wrong. If anyone sees any problems with my calculations, please correct me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:16:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30849	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

\\Steve//, You seem to have a very valid point there about the amount of ammonia proposed to be used for a 10 gallon tank bothering you as possibly being excessive. Aside from any controversy of mg vs. ml, if we are using 3 to 5 drops of 10% ammonia per gallon (as I've also come to understand over the years as being a starter quantity to get a cycle going) -- lets say 5 drops per gallon to make things easier -- then simply 50 drops should be adequate for a 10 gallon tank, which comes out to 0.657876157725 teaspoon (or roughly 2/3 teaspoon), keeping in mind "drops" are a bit variable, with additional small amounts added as needed as the cycle progresses. Still, that's a far concept from 34 teaspoons of 10% ammonia for this 10 gallon tank. Did I miss something here? I'm really not sure if I did; when I read this late last night I was too tired to question it or to bother doing any further figuring, but I've always used the much smaller amount successfully. In my estimation, using 34 teaspoons of 10% ammonia to start cycling a 10 gallon tank is like expecting any (foolishly) prematurely introduced fish to create 3.4 teaspoons of a combination of their 100% urine and ammonia waste in as short a time, in this 10 gallon tank, if one were to indiscreetly add fish, so your suspicion might be well grounded. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > That was in case you were having tea with the Queen. One may need an ice > breaker and what better way to break the ice than a comment on the > silverware, in this case, real silver? Of course, one may also wish to > consider metric teaspoons, in which case the measurement would be a flat > 30 teaspoons. > > mg/kg=ppm= mg/L / Density > > Density is kg/L. In our case we are dealing with water. Density of fresh > water is 1.0, roughly, so that can be discarded in any calculation with > fresh water. (Marine people know their density as specific gravity is a > measure of density.) > > The 0.4 is important in the measurement, since for 50 gallons, that > would be an additional 2 teaspoons that would need to be added. > > The one thing that bothers me, though your calculation seem to be > correct, is that the amount added seems to be excessive to me. We are > talking a bit more than 1/2 cup for 10 gallons, and I don't remember > that I used that much ammonia the last time I did a fishless cycle. > Granted, it has been a long time, I prefer to just place a used sponge > filter from another tank in for the immediate cycle, and I probably > haven't done a fishless cycle in 15 years. I probably won't have time to > try it this weekend, but someone could set up a 10 gallon tank, and > measure the amount of ammonia added to bring the ppm up to 5. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per > gal for me? > > \\Steve//, > > Are you in the UK? Or was that for our UK members? > > Or did you get some heirloom silverware with extra British teaspoons off > of > eBay? ;-) > > I knew it was 30.4x teaspoons which is why I said "around 30" (last > sentence > of third paragraph). I wasn't going to try and get someone to > guesstimate > the .4 teaspoons. LOL > > Was I right on the rest of my math as far as 4-5ppm equaling 152- 190ml > equaling 30-34 teaspoons in 10G? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per > gal > for me? > > Lenny, > > 150 milliliter = 30.432 620 431 Teaspoon [US] > > And, for those of us using British teaspoons, 150 milliliter = 42.234 > 095 > 673 Teaspoon [UK] > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per > gal > for me? > > ppm is equal to mg/l so if you have a syringe that is calibrated in > milligrams (or milliliters (ml), (which is a very small measurement, > i.e.-1,000 ml in a liter of water), you could convert your gallons to > liters > and then use the 4-5 mg/l. > > I did give you another less accurate measurement in an earlier post > where it > was 3-5 drops per gallon. It's hard to be more accurate than 3-5 drops > per > gallon since droppers are not calibrated very well. > > Here are my calculations for a 10G tank (38 liters). 4-5 mg/l (ppm) in a > 10G > tank = 152 to 190 milligrams(millilters). When dealing with water, > milligrams is equal to milliliters and since the plain household ammonia > is > only 10% solution mixed with water, it should be close enough in weight > to > water that they can be converted similarly so for each 10G of water, you > would add at least 150 ml of the plain ammonia and up to 190 ml or you > could > split the difference at 170ml of plain household ammonia for each 10G of > water in the tank. 150ml is equal to around 30 teaspoons. 170ml is equal > to > around 34 teaspoons. > > I'm pretty sure I've calculated this correctly but I'm kind of doing it > in > my head so I could have something wrong. If anyone sees any problems > with my > calculations, please correct me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Nedra > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal > for > me? > > Hi all! > What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? > > fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could > make > the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:16:00 > PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30850	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

Ray, Yeah, I was pretty tired myself last night, having been out on sites twice this week until at least midnight, and getting home later than that. 5:30 AM comes pretty early when you hit the sack at 3 AM <g>. I seem to recall using a small dollop of ammonia to start off the cycling in my larger tanks, certainly not the larger amount that Lenny came up with. I think Jerry may have hit the mark in that there was a step missing in Lenny's conversions. I have done some looking around after my reply, and most recommend 4-5 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons to reach the proper level to start the tank cycling. One site mentioned a calculator on the Practical Fishkeeping site, www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk (registration required for the calculators they have), but I was not able to find it. There is a calculator to determine toxic levels of ammonia, but I could not find one for dosing the tank, though there was one to determine proper dosing of medications, which I did not look at. Perhaps it was this one he was referring to? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 9:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? \\Steve//, You seem to have a very valid point there about the amount of ammonia proposed to be used for a 10 gallon tank bothering you as possibly being excessive. Aside from any controversy of mg vs. ml, if we are using 3 to 5 drops of 10% ammonia per gallon (as I've also come to understand over the years as being a starter quantity to get a cycle going) -- lets say 5 drops per gallon to make things easier -- then simply 50 drops should be adequate for a 10 gallon tank, which comes out to 0.657876157725 teaspoon (or roughly 2/3 teaspoon), keeping in mind "drops" are a bit variable, with additional small amounts added as needed as the cycle progresses. Still, that's a far concept from 34 teaspoons of 10% ammonia for this 10 gallon tank. Did I miss something here? I'm really not sure if I did; when I read this late last night I was too tired to question it or to bother doing any further figuring, but I've always used the much smaller amount successfully. In my estimation, using 34 teaspoons of 10% ammonia to start cycling a 10 gallon tank is like expecting any (foolishly) prematurely introduced fish to create 3.4 teaspoons of a combination of their 100% urine and ammonia waste in as short a time, in this 10 gallon tank, if one were to indiscreetly add fish, so your suspicion might be well grounded. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > That was in case you were having tea with the Queen. One may need an ice > breaker and what better way to break the ice than a comment on the > silverware, in this case, real silver? Of course, one may also wish to > consider metric teaspoons, in which case the measurement would be a flat > 30 teaspoons. > > mg/kg=ppm= mg/L / Density > > Density is kg/L. In our case we are dealing with water. Density of fresh > water is 1.0, roughly, so that can be discarded in any calculation with > fresh water. (Marine people know their density as specific gravity is a > measure of density.) > > The 0.4 is important in the measurement, since for 50 gallons, that > would be an additional 2 teaspoons that would need to be added. > > The one thing that bothers me, though your calculation seem to be > correct, is that the amount added seems to be excessive to me. We are > talking a bit more than 1/2 cup for 10 gallons, and I don't remember > that I used that much ammonia the last time I did a fishless cycle. > Granted, it has been a long time, I prefer to just place a used sponge > filter from another tank in for the immediate cycle, and I probably > haven't done a fishless cycle in 15 years. I probably won't have time to > try it this weekend, but someone could set up a 10 gallon tank, and > measure the amount of ammonia added to bring the ppm up to 5. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per > gal for me? > > \\Steve//, > > Are you in the UK? Or was that for our UK members? > > Or did you get some heirloom silverware with extra British teaspoons off > of > eBay? ;-) > > I knew it was 30.4x teaspoons which is why I said "around 30" (last > sentence > of third paragraph). I wasn't going to try and get someone to > guesstimate > the .4 teaspoons. LOL > > Was I right on the rest of my math as far as 4-5ppm equaling 152- 190ml > equaling 30-34 teaspoons in 10G? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per > gal > for me? > > Lenny, > > 150 milliliter = 30.432 620 431 Teaspoon [US] > > And, for those of us using British teaspoons, 150 milliliter = 42.234 > 095 > 673 Teaspoon [UK] > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per > gal > for me? > > ppm is equal to mg/l so if you have a syringe that is calibrated in > milligrams (or milliliters (ml), (which is a very small measurement, > i.e.-1,000 ml in a liter of water), you could convert your gallons to > liters > and then use the 4-5 mg/l. > > I did give you another less accurate measurement in an earlier post > where it > was 3-5 drops per gallon. It's hard to be more accurate than 3-5 drops > per > gallon since droppers are not calibrated very well. > > Here are my calculations for a 10G tank (38 liters). 4-5 mg/l (ppm) in a > 10G > tank = 152 to 190 milligrams(millilters). When dealing with water, > milligrams is equal to milliliters and since the plain household ammonia > is > only 10% solution mixed with water, it should be close enough in weight > to > water that they can be converted similarly so for each 10G of water, you > would add at least 150 ml of the plain ammonia and up to 190 ml or you > could > split the difference at 170ml of plain household ammonia for each 10G of > water in the tank. 150ml is equal to around 30 teaspoons. 170ml is equal > to > around 34 teaspoons. > > I'm pretty sure I've calculated this correctly but I'm kind of doing it > in > my head so I could have something wrong. If anyone sees any problems > with my > calculations, please correct me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Nedra > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal > for > me? > > Hi all! > What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? > > fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could > make > the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:16:00 > PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30851	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

I still have 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 3, 2008 10:48:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Another Green Water Question Without knowing the product, I would have to advise against it. Most of those types of products just turn your tank into a chemical waste dump worthy of being placed on the DEQ's Superfund List. In fact, 95% of the chemicals they sell at pet stores, for freshwater fish, are not needed and should be avoided. The ONLY thing I add to my tanks is a simple dechlor product that only treats the chlorine/chloramine and any heavy metals.... unless there is a reason to temporarily treat a problem like an illness. I think Prime's advertising of "detoxifying nitrates" is probably a little puffery on their part. Now the "detoxifying nitrites" is a possibility since sodium (as in sodium thiosulfate) is a big part of most dechlor products and salt is used to help prevent nitrite poisoning but if I'm not mistaken, you have to hyper-dose the tank with Prime to get this benefit. It's a lot cheaper to just use regular table salt. I remember participating in a thread about Prime a few years ago and nobody could show how Prime would detoxify nitrates, particularly since nitrates aren't really toxic to our FW fish at low levels (20-40ppm) for most fish. Prime does work instantly as a dechlor and probably for treating ammonia and protecting against nitrite poisoning... as would a pinch of salt per 10G for nitrite levels or 1ppm or less. Since your nitrite levels got so high, I'm hoping you still had a high level of salt in the tank. You can read all about Nitrates in \\Steve's// long post at http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ message/13064, which I've also copy/pasted to my blog http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2007/ 02/nitrates- long-explanation -thanks-to. ht ml since \\Steve// sent me a private email with a little more info that he never posted in the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Another Green Water Question Thanks. The reason I used fishless cycling as an example is because someone outside the group was asking for help with that. I think my problem is I try to take too much information in at once. I got the prime you were talking about. It says that it converts ammonia to something my bio filter can break down. It also says that it detoxifies nitrites and nitrates. What does that mean, and will my nitrite test still read the same level of nitrites? Also, is that supposed to be instant, or does it take time dilute and react inside the tank? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 9:48:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

Well, it seems that Jerry/Gerard (whom some might consider to be a psychopath), who was banned from the group, has spoofed my email address and started his own thread about my math. LOL According to Jerry/Gerard, I messed up somewhere in my calculations/conversion so it should only be 1/10th of what I calculated or 3 teaspoons per 10G but even that might be excessive... I sure hope so since that would make Jerry/Gerard wrong also. LOL I definitely agree my math is wrong somewhere because 30-50 teaspoons (even with 10% ammonia) is WAY TOO MUCH. I'm not sure why I didn't catch that right off the bat. For simplicity, until I've had a chance to write out my calculations (instead of doing them in my head, on the fly), I would stick to my original 3-5 drops per gallon of 10% solution plain household ammonia. I didn't worry about the .4 teaspoons since we were dealing with a fishless cycle and if we only raised the ammonia level to 3.9ppm, rather than 4ppm, it wouldn't really matter and wouldn't show up any differently on our low-tech ammonia test kits anyhow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 7:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? That was in case you were having tea with the Queen. One may need an ice breaker and what better way to break the ice than a comment on the silverware, in this case, real silver? Of course, one may also wish to consider metric teaspoons, in which case the measurement would be a flat 30 teaspoons. mg/kg=ppm= mg/L / Density Density is kg/L. In our case we are dealing with water. Density of fresh water is 1.0, roughly, so that can be discarded in any calculation with fresh water. (Marine people know their density as specific gravity is a measure of density.) The 0.4 is important in the measurement, since for 50 gallons, that would be an additional 2 teaspoons that would need to be added. The one thing that bothers me, though your calculation seem to be correct, is that the amount added seems to be excessive to me. We are talking a bit more than 1/2 cup for 10 gallons, and I don't remember that I used that much ammonia the last time I did a fishless cycle. Granted, it has been a long time, I prefer to just place a used sponge filter from another tank in for the immediate cycle, and I probably haven't done a fishless cycle in 15 years. I probably won't have time to try it this weekend, but someone could set up a 10 gallon tank, and measure the amount of ammonia added to bring the ppm up to 5. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? \\Steve//, Are you in the UK? Or was that for our UK members? Or did you get some heirloom silverware with extra British teaspoons off of eBay? ;-) I knew it was 30.4x teaspoons which is why I said "around 30" (last sentence of third paragraph). I wasn't going to try and get someone to guesstimate the .4 teaspoons. LOL Was I right on the rest of my math as far as 4-5ppm equaling 152-190ml equaling 30-34 teaspoons in 10G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Lenny, 150 milliliter = 30.432 620 431 Teaspoon [US] And, for those of us using British teaspoons, 150 milliliter = 42.234 095 673 Teaspoon [UK] \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? ppm is equal to mg/l so if you have a syringe that is calibrated in milligrams (or milliliters (ml), (which is a very small measurement, i.e.-1,000 ml in a liter of water), you could convert your gallons to liters and then use the 4-5 mg/l. I did give you another less accurate measurement in an earlier post where it was 3-5 drops per gallon. It's hard to be more accurate than 3-5 drops per gallon since droppers are not calibrated very well. Here are my calculations for a 10G tank (38 liters). 4-5 mg/l (ppm) in a 10G tank = 152 to 190 milligrams(millilters). When dealing with water, milligrams is equal to milliliters and since the plain household ammonia is only 10% solution mixed with water, it should be close enough in weight to water that they can be converted similarly so for each 10G of water, you would add at least 150 ml of the plain ammonia and up to 190 ml or you could split the difference at 170ml of plain household ammonia for each 10G of water in the tank. 150ml is equal to around 30 teaspoons. 170ml is equal to around 34 teaspoons. I'm pretty sure I've calculated this correctly but I'm kind of doing it in my head so I could have something wrong. If anyone sees any problems with my calculations, please correct me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:16:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/4/2008 7:03:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/4/2008 10:54:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30854	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

Yup, Lenny has it worked otu in his fish blogs, I think. If not him, then the other good beginner's fish blog. The other way to figure it out is to add ammonia to your tank a drop at a time until a test result gives you the desired reading. It's an extremely small amount of ammonia. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? In general, 3-5 drops of ammonia per gallon, depending on the size of the drops, will raise the ammonia level to 4-5ppm. It also depends on the strength of the ammonia. Most bottles at the retail level will have 10% ammonium hydroxide but if it's a higher or lower percentage or the level is not stated in the ingredients, then you'll have to test if on a sample gallon of water to verify how many drops you would need per gallon. Also, if your water is treated with chloramines, when you add the dechlor product, you will likely end up with 0.5ppm of ammonia just from the tap water. Here's some more reading about fishless cycling from reliable websites. http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/flc-data.htm (a chart of someone's own fishless cycle with notes, mistakes, etc.... goes with link below for thetropicaltank.co.uk) http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861 http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/fishlesscycling.html http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598 http://thegab.org/Articles/FishlessCycling.html http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling2.htm http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml (one of my favorite articles since The Skeptical Aquarist goes over one of his first fishless cycles using his own urine... yes it will work if you can't find plain ammonia. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Type that into google and it should convert it if possible(at least as far as drops to teaspoons or gallons). The amout you would need to add would vary based on the volume of your tank Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 3:08:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 3:16:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30855	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Question

Well, I started out with the old version of the three-bacteria product that requires refrigeration - what's it's name. Added half to begin with and some at a time over the next week or so. also used Cycle and TLC. And actually TLC DOES outperform Cycle, though the manufacturer's information on their own product would never lead you to believe it. I did go through cycling my tank and lost my first fish, but the tank never had the dramatic highs of ammonia and nitrites that peoples' do who don't use them. And my second attempt to add fish (danios this time, several at a time, to a 10 gallon tank) took. So basically whether these products "work" depends on what your criteria are. Some of these guys think that something fails to "work" if a fish is ever unhappy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling Question I think you would have been better off NOT using the Cycle product. It simply does not work as advertised and actually made the cycling conditions worse for me when I tried it a few years back. Remember that the nitrifying bacteria in the filter media will only grow a large enough colony to handle the bioload of the tank that it is on. If you only have one fish, then the filter will only have enough N-bacteria to handle the bioload of one fish. If you have ten fish, then the N-bacteria colony will be 10 times larger to handle the bioload of the ten fish. If the filter has been running on the 2.5G for several weeks and was properly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it will have enough of the good N-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10G tank. If you moved the mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added more fish, then you would put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until the N-bacteria colony grows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload that more fish would create. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies and then do a PWC or two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also do PWC's on the 2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and then just move the fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel or decorations in the 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning on a different substrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colander or stocking so it is easy to remove in a few weeks so that your new substrate can grow the bacteria that it needs as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:49 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling Question Okay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge from my 2.5 gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long til this tank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media? I'm trying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lol Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] water stats OK. This is because you are into your first phase of cycling so the ammoniaeating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony to handle theammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The next phase will bethe nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitrite to nitratebut until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.I believe you are still running a high level of salt so that will partiallyprotect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get the nitritelevel down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two. Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replace theremoved salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now but hopefullyyou do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replace with thePWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water and slowlypour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DO NOTpour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] water statsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% water change andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs the nitrite (NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm isWAYHIGH.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] water statsIfinally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todays stats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77I put in theprime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwill not make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10 gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallest to cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwith maracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned my lessonabout taking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix is notnearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It's OKfor treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing of otherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming, properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackinto excellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem can catch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick. Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can also causescale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you called pineconing) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also. Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternal digestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish is consuminginstead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish as nutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish? I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was since ithas possibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a new parasite/bacteria intoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, which unfortunately mayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean the entire tank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-like paste and/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of the water andvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strong salt watersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfilter system runningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetank again untilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Then refill withfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank for fish againand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking around at otherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things in the nextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be ready to makeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cycle hascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a half hour ago. It was swimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to be pushed by the currents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scales were poking out, but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxic teen) and its tummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air and eventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.I wastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was picking atthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They had bothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size but hisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the dead onebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales were gone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought the hole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with the melafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking out like a pinecone but the goldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fish fromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of what you are seeing? Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind of remember it beingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads got pretty convoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas of what you couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks before throwing thingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it could simply bethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tank so itmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish are not armoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlid tanks sincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves in an oftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot about HITH inthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the number of tanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it's not justan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't a festering typeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting in the head,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting larger breeds ofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related to diet andwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which are the onesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their lives in lesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed proper diets becausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only make the waterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are very BIG fishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55G tanks. Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinin their diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommend theminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatis the bareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as much proteinin theirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterquality issueswhen comparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles I have in myfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learned about thisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentand more definitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsold and based onthe best sciencereferences available at the timetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phpht tp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 2:34:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30863	From: Leonard Vasbinder	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...

90% of the messages you've been seeing recently that appeared to come from me were actually from a banned member who has been illegally spoofing my email address... much like scum-bag spammers do to try and get past spam filters or appear to be one of your friends when sending out malicious emails. I've put myself on full moderation now so that hopefully Gerard, aka Jerry, will no longer be able to spoof my email address to post his nonsense and flaming messages. He may still spoof someone else's email address so we'll shut him down with each try. Thanks and sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. I also apologize for not double checking my math but I did ask one of the other members to double check my math since something didn't seem right to me but it was late when I was typing out that reply. That will teach me to double check things again in the future. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30864	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...

Thanks Lenny, I admit I was confused about all that ammonia stuff but I had noticed your witting style had changed, just couldn't figure out what had happened. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30865	From: Suzi	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...

thanks Lenny, I wondered who that was using your email. ----- Have a great day! Suzi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30866	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...

Hey Lenny, We all make mistakes. Heck we wouldn't be human if we didn't. There are enough people on the list that can see things like this. In the real world, it's called quality control. LOL You have given of yourself and your time unselfishly to this list, and I know I am very thankful. Hang in there and maybe we can get back to talking fish & water stuff. Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Leonard Vasbinder Date: 10/4/2008 4:24:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to... 90% of the messages you've been seeing recently that appeared to come from me were actually from a banned member who has been illegally spoofing my email address... much like scum-bag spammers do to try and get past spam filters or appear to be one of your friends when sending out malicious emails. I've put myself on full moderation now so that hopefully Gerard, aka Jerry, will no longer be able to spoof my email address to post his nonsense and flaming messages. He may still spoof someone else's email address so we'll shut him down with each try. Thanks and sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. I also apologize for not double checking my math but I did ask one of the other members to double check my math since something didn't seem right to me but it was late when I was typing out that reply. That will teach me to double check things again in the future. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30868	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

Chris, chlorophyll may have originated as independent blue-green algae or cyanobacteria in long ago times, but today it does not exist by itself. It only exists in other plants. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 6:58 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Another Green Water Question My fish didn't think they were being fed enough so they started tearing apart the aquarium plants that I recently put in the tank. I came home and found my water green and the filter intake clogged with shredded plant pieces. Unless I'm wrong I'm 100% certain that my water is colored green by chlorophyll and not algae an algae bloom cuz it wasn't green when I left home and hasn't gotten any greener over the last 24hrs. Is this something I can leave alone? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30869	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Another Green Water Question

Oh. This is where we're getting the idea that the water is colored with chlorophyll! OK. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 5:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another Green Water Question My cichlids shredded romaine overnight and I woke to a tank floating with green bits. The water was not tinted green however. I'm thinking it's not chlorophyll but an algae bloom. And plant eating fish don't eat them just when they haven't been fed enough.it's what they do, LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another Green Water Question It may be an algae bloom, they can come on quite fast. Clean up the tank (which you have probably done by now). If the green is caused by the chlorophyll, it will gradually clear. If it is an algae bloom, it will likely get greener. If the former, do a couple of partial water changes a week, until it clears, if it is the latter, let it be, as it should clear itself. That is hard to do, but it is the only guaranteed method. Note your water parameters, and if they are out of whack, when they start to normalize, the algae will start to disappear. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another Green Water Question My fish didn't think they were being fed enough so they started tearing apart the aquarium plants that I recently put in the tank. I came home and found my water green and the filter intake clogged with shredded plant pieces. Unless I'm wrong I'm 100% certain that my water is colored green by chlorophyll and not algae an algae bloom cuz it wasn't green when I left home and hasn't gotten any greener over the last 24hrs. Is this something I can leave alone? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30870	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

I believe that 5 ml is 1 tsp. Atleast in medical parlance. sorry I didn't think of that. Fish stuff that calls for 5 ml or 1 tsp, or even 1 tbsp, actually gets measured with my 5 ml/ 1 tsp cough medicine measuring cup. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Lenny, 150 milliliter = 30.432 620 431 Teaspoon [US] And, for those of us using British teaspoons, 150 milliliter = 42.234 095 673 Teaspoon [UK] \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? ppm is equal to mg/l so if you have a syringe that is calibrated in milligrams (or milliliters (ml), (which is a very small measurement, i.e.-1,000 ml in a liter of water), you could convert your gallons to liters and then use the 4-5 mg/l. I did give you another less accurate measurement in an earlier post where it was 3-5 drops per gallon. It's hard to be more accurate than 3-5 drops per gallon since droppers are not calibrated very well. Here are my calculations for a 10G tank (38 liters). 4-5 mg/l (ppm) in a 10G tank = 152 to 190 milligrams(millilters). When dealing with water, milligrams is equal to milliliters and since the plain household ammonia is only 10% solution mixed with water, it should be close enough in weight to water that they can be converted similarly so for each 10G of water, you would add at least 150 ml of the plain ammonia and up to 190 ml or you could split the difference at 170ml of plain household ammonia for each 10G of water in the tank. 150ml is equal to around 30 teaspoons. 170ml is equal to around 34 teaspoons. I'm pretty sure I've calculated this correctly but I'm kind of doing it in my head so I could have something wrong. If anyone sees any problems with my calculations, please correct me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:16:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30871	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

How many ml is a metric teaspoon? My guess is 5 ml. Since that is how medicine is measured out in the U.S. 5 ml and 1 teaspoon are interchangeable. And I know which of both my spoons and my mother's holds an exact medical teaspoon. Always have. So did my mother before me. Now, if it matches the Queen's silver, I really couldn't tell you. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 7:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? That was in case you were having tea with the Queen. One may need an ice breaker and what better way to break the ice than a comment on the silverware, in this case, real silver? Of course, one may also wish to consider metric teaspoons, in which case the measurement would be a flat 30 teaspoons. mg/kg=ppm= mg/L / Density Density is kg/L. In our case we are dealing with water. Density of fresh water is 1.0, roughly, so that can be discarded in any calculation with fresh water. (Marine people know their density as specific gravity is a measure of density.) The 0.4 is important in the measurement, since for 50 gallons, that would be an additional 2 teaspoons that would need to be added. The one thing that bothers me, though your calculation seem to be correct, is that the amount added seems to be excessive to me. We are talking a bit more than 1/2 cup for 10 gallons, and I don't remember that I used that much ammonia the last time I did a fishless cycle. Granted, it has been a long time, I prefer to just place a used sponge filter from another tank in for the immediate cycle, and I probably haven't done a fishless cycle in 15 years. I probably won't have time to try it this weekend, but someone could set up a 10 gallon tank, and measure the amount of ammonia added to bring the ppm up to 5. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? \\Steve//, Are you in the UK? Or was that for our UK members? Or did you get some heirloom silverware with extra British teaspoons off of eBay? ;-) I knew it was 30.4x teaspoons which is why I said "around 30" (last sentence of third paragraph). I wasn't going to try and get someone to guesstimate the .4 teaspoons. LOL Was I right on the rest of my math as far as 4-5ppm equaling 152-190ml equaling 30-34 teaspoons in 10G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Lenny, 150 milliliter = 30.432 620 431 Teaspoon [US] And, for those of us using British teaspoons, 150 milliliter = 42.234 095 673 Teaspoon [UK] \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? ppm is equal to mg/l so if you have a syringe that is calibrated in milligrams (or milliliters (ml), (which is a very small measurement, i.e.-1,000 ml in a liter of water), you could convert your gallons to liters and then use the 4-5 mg/l. I did give you another less accurate measurement in an earlier post where it was 3-5 drops per gallon. It's hard to be more accurate than 3-5 drops per gallon since droppers are not calibrated very well. Here are my calculations for a 10G tank (38 liters). 4-5 mg/l (ppm) in a 10G tank = 152 to 190 milligrams(millilters). When dealing with water, milligrams is equal to milliliters and since the plain household ammonia is only 10% solution mixed with water, it should be close enough in weight to water that they can be converted similarly so for each 10G of water, you would add at least 150 ml of the plain ammonia and up to 190 ml or you could split the difference at 170ml of plain household ammonia for each 10G of water in the tank. 150ml is equal to around 30 teaspoons. 170ml is equal to around 34 teaspoons. I'm pretty sure I've calculated this correctly but I'm kind of doing it in my head so I could have something wrong. If anyone sees any problems with my calculations, please correct me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:16:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30872	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me?

You lost me a long time ago, Lenny, but I do know that you and others have consistently recommended up to several drops per gallon or per tank of ammonia to cycle a tank - and you've also recommended being conservative and testing the level to be sure. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Well, it seems that Jerry/Gerard (whom some might consider to be a psychopath), who was banned from the group, has spoofed my email address and started his own thread about my math. LOL According to Jerry/Gerard, I messed up somewhere in my calculations/conversion so it should only be 1/10th of what I calculated or 3 teaspoons per 10G but even that might be excessive... I sure hope so since that would make Jerry/Gerard wrong also. LOL I definitely agree my math is wrong somewhere because 30-50 teaspoons (even with 10% ammonia) is WAY TOO MUCH. I'm not sure why I didn't catch that right off the bat. For simplicity, until I've had a chance to write out my calculations (instead of doing them in my head, on the fly), I would stick to my original 3-5 drops per gallon of 10% solution plain household ammonia. I didn't worry about the .4 teaspoons since we were dealing with a fishless cycle and if we only raised the ammonia level to 3.9ppm, rather than 4ppm, it wouldn't really matter and wouldn't show up any differently on our low-tech ammonia test kits anyhow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 7:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? That was in case you were having tea with the Queen. One may need an ice breaker and what better way to break the ice than a comment on the silverware, in this case, real silver? Of course, one may also wish to consider metric teaspoons, in which case the measurement would be a flat 30 teaspoons. mg/kg=ppm= mg/L / Density Density is kg/L. In our case we are dealing with water. Density of fresh water is 1.0, roughly, so that can be discarded in any calculation with fresh water. (Marine people know their density as specific gravity is a measure of density.) The 0.4 is important in the measurement, since for 50 gallons, that would be an additional 2 teaspoons that would need to be added. The one thing that bothers me, though your calculation seem to be correct, is that the amount added seems to be excessive to me. We are talking a bit more than 1/2 cup for 10 gallons, and I don't remember that I used that much ammonia the last time I did a fishless cycle. Granted, it has been a long time, I prefer to just place a used sponge filter from another tank in for the immediate cycle, and I probably haven't done a fishless cycle in 15 years. I probably won't have time to try it this weekend, but someone could set up a 10 gallon tank, and measure the amount of ammonia added to bring the ppm up to 5. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? \\Steve//, Are you in the UK? Or was that for our UK members? Or did you get some heirloom silverware with extra British teaspoons off of eBay? ;-) I knew it was 30.4x teaspoons which is why I said "around 30" (last sentence of third paragraph). I wasn't going to try and get someone to guesstimate the .4 teaspoons. LOL Was I right on the rest of my math as far as 4-5ppm equaling 152-190ml equaling 30-34 teaspoons in 10G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Lenny, 150 milliliter = 30.432 620 431 Teaspoon [US] And, for those of us using British teaspoons, 150 milliliter = 42.234 095 673 Teaspoon [UK] \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? ppm is equal to mg/l so if you have a syringe that is calibrated in milligrams (or milliliters (ml), (which is a very small measurement, i.e.-1,000 ml in a liter of water), you could convert your gallons to liters and then use the 4-5 mg/l. I did give you another less accurate measurement in an earlier post where it was 3-5 drops per gallon. It's hard to be more accurate than 3-5 drops per gallon since droppers are not calibrated very well. Here are my calculations for a 10G tank (38 liters). 4-5 mg/l (ppm) in a 10G tank = 152 to 190 milligrams(millilters). When dealing with water, milligrams is equal to milliliters and since the plain household ammonia is only 10% solution mixed with water, it should be close enough in weight to water that they can be converted similarly so for each 10G of water, you would add at least 150 ml of the plain ammonia and up to 190 ml or you could split the difference at 170ml of plain household ammonia for each 10G of water in the tank. 150ml is equal to around 30 teaspoons. 170ml is equal to around 34 teaspoons. I'm pretty sure I've calculated this correctly but I'm kind of doing it in my head so I could have something wrong. If anyone sees any problems with my calculations, please correct me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Can someone convert ppm to drops or tsps per gal for me? Hi all! What does the following work out to in teaspoons or drops per gal? fishless cycle the new tank using plain ammonia at 4-5ppm, which could make the tank safe for a full bioload in 7-14 days. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/3/2008 8:16:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008 Tested on: 10/4/2008 7:03:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/4/2008 10:54:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30873	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Green Water

I wonder if there could be another way to tell. I check for microscopic plant life growing in my tank by checking the nitrates adn phosphates. If I'm not wrong, it isn't only diatoms that would cause those parameters to drop. If you know there's phosphates in the tap water and tehre's normally nitrates in the tank, and you suddenly have 0 quantity of either of them in your tank, you've got an algae bloom. If the numbers are normal I'd tend to guess you haven't got an emergency whatever else is true. You could do a partial water change and see what happens. If you've got a good microscope you could just look under it; an algae bloom would be immediately obvious. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 6:53 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Green Water My fish didn't think they were being fed enough so they started tearing apart the aquarium plants that I recently put in the tank. I came home and found my water green and the filter intake clogged with shredded plant pieces. Unless I'm wrong I'm 100% certain that my water is colored green by chlorophyll and not algae an algae bloom cuz it wasn't green when I left home and hasn't gotten any greener over the last 24hrs. Is this something I can leave alone? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30874	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...

Not to worry Lenny - I can tell you apart. You may sometimes be cranky but you aren't nuts, and you also don't typically rant about yourself. LOL. Besides, if they're spoofing your address, tehy still wear Gerald's name. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leonard Vasbinder" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 6:23 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to... 90% of the messages you've been seeing recently that appeared to come from me were actually from a banned member who has been illegally spoofing my email address... much like scum-bag spammers do to try and get past spam filters or appear to be one of your friends when sending out malicious emails. I've put myself on full moderation now so that hopefully Gerard, aka Jerry, will no longer be able to spoof my email

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30875	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up 10 gal ....

For a kindergarten class tank you want to get the tank going quickly. I'd say that your best bet is to get some filter media that is currently running in the tank of someone who has one running. Good luck. Definitely use the tank cycling bacteria tanks, which I've not seen do the job instantly but do help. And try not to add alot of fish to teh tank at once. Kindergartners will be just as happy with two or three danios or a guppy or two for starters, in a 10 gallon tank. One hint, though. Usually for such projects, larger tanks paradoxically work better. I was trying to sell my brother on that concept just tonight. A bigger tank will pay for itself in less work. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alina" <alambiet@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:29 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up 10 gal .... Hi, Mommy duties never end...but as part of my son's Kindergarten class projects we're setting up the teacher's 10 gal tank. It's all set and ready to go, except we are adding the starter fish today. I am new to this, and only recently set up my own 38-gal at home, which, despite a few missteps, seems to be doing really well. But with smaller, less room for error, right? So can I start a 10-gal with two platies or should I go with the ever-hardy tetras? Are two fish too many for a 10 gal? Other suggestions are greatly appreciated. And remember the environment....handsy Kindergartners. We'll be keeping it fun but simple. Thanks alina ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30876	From: kfm241	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't have to...

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Not to worry Lenny - I can tell you apart. You may sometimes be cranky but > you aren't nuts, and you also don't typically rant about yourself. LOL. > Besides, if they're spoofing your address, tehy still wear Gerald's name. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leonard Vasbinder" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 6:23 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] My apologies to the group... although I shouldn't > have to... > > > 90% of the messages you've been seeing recently that appeared to come > from me were actually from a banned member who has been illegally > spoofing my email address... much like scum-bag spammers do to try > and get past spam filters or appear to be one of your friends when > sending out malicious emails. > > I've put myself on full moderation now so that hopefully Gerard, aka > Jerry, will no longer be able to spoof my email >I don't know who is trying to bring your name down, but I think you give good advice and I like your blog. So please keep up the good work. Thank you KFM241

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30877	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/4/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank

Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u know more about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the shark scientists i personally know! U are way better than that Jerry guy.. what a jerk! On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie <MargiePhelps@...>wrote: > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > w.j.scott@... <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: -------------- > > > Hey Guy's > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw stones > if > > you live in a glass house. > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be polite > with > > our on line comments. No > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny > will > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not spoon, > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric system, live > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, it's you > who > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make calculation, of > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell me you > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30878	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Australian blue yabbies.

I'm considering getting one. Any tips on diet, tank decorations would be helpful. Thanks.   Lisa   Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30879	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group...

Unfortunately, unless I was a Vice-Presidential candidate with the Secret Service doing all of the work, Yahoo!, Inc., doesn't even reply to people with complaints about email/user ID spoofing, hacking, etc. I've been giving out Yahoo!, Inc's direct contact info, phone numbers, email addresses and even snail mail address for years, on a Yahoo related technical group and nobody has ever gotten a reply from them. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u know more about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the shark scientists i personally know! U are way better than that Jerry guy.. what a jerk! On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie <MargiePhelps@... <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> >wrote: > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > w.j.scott@... <mailto:w.j.scott%40verizon.net> > <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: -------------- > > > Hey Guy's > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw > > stones > if > > you live in a glass house. > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be > > polite > with > > our on line comments. No > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , > > Lenny > will > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not spoon, > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric system, > > live > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, it's > > you > who > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make > > calculation, of > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell > > me you > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important > to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/4/2008 11:39:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 2:36:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30880	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Australian blue yabbies.

Here's a profile/care sheet I have in my favorites folder from Badman's site... a well respected website for fish keeping. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article40.html Here's another care sheet that I have in my favorites folder. http://www.anapsid.org/crayfish.html And this is a very, very extensive crawfish related website set up by BYU (Brigham Young University) with just about everything you would ever want to know and then some. http://crayfish.byu.edu/ Are you in Australia, USA, ??? In the USA, there's a similar coloration of the Florida crawfish that is often called the electric blue crawfish. They are carnivores to omnivores so that means they will eat any fish in your tank so they are best kept in a species only tank at least 10G or larger. The waste from carnivores is high in protein so that is one of the reasons for needing lots of water volume per crawfish and plenty of filtration and frequent PWC's. The bigger the tank, the easier on you and the crawfish. Of course, down here in N'Awlins, we find the best way to keep crawfish is in our stomachs.... after a nice hot n' spicy crawfish boil and lots of cold beer. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 1:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Australian blue yabbies. I'm considering getting one. Any tips on diet, tank decorations would be helpful. Thanks. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 3:11:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30881	From: babsdvs	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? > > . > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 > Tested on: 9/29/2008 3:52:05 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30882	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

HOB type filters cause a lot more surface agitation with the returning water fall so the increased surface agitation allows for more gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. While this is good for the fish, it may not be good for the plants if the CO2 levels get too low (you can check your CO2 levels here, using pH, KH and temperature.. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm). Warmer water will hold CO2 better as well so bumping the temp up a little for tropical fish and plants that can tolerate the warmer tropical temps will help with keeping CO2 levels up. Penguin HOB's or other Bio-Wheel HOB's add even higher levels of O2 back into the water because of the Bio-Wheel action. Bio-Wheels are good but the lower priced models tend to have issues with the Bio-Wheel not wanting to spin properly but this also usually means filter maintenance is needed (see my blog article on Filter Maintenance). If you are not seeing the kind of plant growth that you would like or expect, you could fill the tank up so that the water level is up to or over the edge of the water fall so the returning water does not splash at all and disrupts the surface as little as possible. I've also seen where people will take some filter floss padding (the bulk kind like here... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & ) and attach a folded up piece of this filter floss to the end of the waterfall so the filter floss goes into the water about an inch (using nylon ties, stainless steel screw/washer, etc... I've seen several different modifications over the years) so that the returning water kind of flows through the filter media directly into the tank and creates very little surface agitation. I haven't looked around for it much but it seems a darker colored filter floss would be more aesthetic for this purpose but the only darker colored filter floss materials that I've seen are usually the carbon impregnated king. There are black large pore sponge blocks that I have in my Rena Filstar canister filters that would also work for this type of water return. A closed filter system like a canister will hold the CO2 levels higher since the water going through a canister is not aerated at all unless the user has it set up for the returning water to create surface agitation. The HOB's have a lot of surface agitation inside of the filter reservoir which will release some of the CO2 as well. Your Aquaclear should have sponge blocks, etc., in the reservoir which will lessen the CO2 outgasing while the water is in the reservoir. Adding a sponge block to the Penguin will probably help a little also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? > > . > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 > 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:20:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30883	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

So you're saying that the action of the hang-on-back filters tends to drive CO2 out of the water? I doubt that's true in my case. I specifically bubble air through tap water I'm preparing for the tank in order to lower teh ph from 8.4 to 9.0, to 7.4 to 7.8, the ph of teh water in my tank. Even teh person at the city water quality control lab said taht the ph of our water is artificially high and the minute you can get CO2 into the water it comes down. Once I have the water in my tank the ph doesn't change - unless diatoms eat up all the CO2 adn all the nitrogen wastes (chuckle). Now, I don't know if the amount of CO2 necessary to lower teh ph of the water is adequate to grow plants. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? HOB type filters cause a lot more surface agitation with the returning water fall so the increased surface agitation allows for more gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. While this is good for the fish, it may not be good for the plants if the CO2 levels get too low (you can check your CO2 levels here, using pH, KH and temperature.. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm). Warmer water will hold CO2 better as well so bumping the temp up a little for tropical fish and plants that can tolerate the warmer tropical temps will help with keeping CO2 levels up. Penguin HOB's or other Bio-Wheel HOB's add even higher levels of O2 back into the water because of the Bio-Wheel action. Bio-Wheels are good but the lower priced models tend to have issues with the Bio-Wheel not wanting to spin properly but this also usually means filter maintenance is needed (see my blog article on Filter Maintenance). If you are not seeing the kind of plant growth that you would like or expect, you could fill the tank up so that the water level is up to or over the edge of the water fall so the returning water does not splash at all and disrupts the surface as little as possible. I've also seen where people will take some filter floss padding (the bulk kind like here... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & ) and attach a folded up piece of this filter floss to the end of the waterfall so the filter floss goes into the water about an inch (using nylon ties, stainless steel screw/washer, etc... I've seen several different modifications over the years) so that the returning water kind of flows through the filter media directly into the tank and creates very little surface agitation. I haven't looked around for it much but it seems a darker colored filter floss would be more aesthetic for this purpose but the only darker colored filter floss materials that I've seen are usually the carbon impregnated king. There are black large pore sponge blocks that I have in my Rena Filstar canister filters that would also work for this type of water return. A closed filter system like a canister will hold the CO2 levels higher since the water going through a canister is not aerated at all unless the user has it set up for the returning water to create surface agitation. The HOB's have a lot of surface agitation inside of the filter reservoir which will release some of the CO2 as well. Your Aquaclear should have sponge blocks, etc., in the reservoir which will lessen the CO2 outgasing while the water is in the reservoir. Adding a sponge block to the Penguin will probably help a little also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? > > . > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 > 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:20:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30884	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

You're also saying that the carbonate hardness of my water changes with teh amount of dissolved carbon dioxide and the ph? OK, that's easy to check. Grin. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? HOB type filters cause a lot more surface agitation with the returning water fall so the increased surface agitation allows for more gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. While this is good for the fish, it may not be good for the plants if the CO2 levels get too low (you can check your CO2 levels here, using pH, KH and temperature.. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm). Warmer water will hold CO2 better as well so bumping the temp up a little for tropical fish and plants that can tolerate the warmer tropical temps will help with keeping CO2 levels up. Penguin HOB's or other Bio-Wheel HOB's add even higher levels of O2 back into the water because of the Bio-Wheel action. Bio-Wheels are good but the lower priced models tend to have issues with the Bio-Wheel not wanting to spin properly but this also usually means filter maintenance is needed (see my blog article on Filter Maintenance). If you are not seeing the kind of plant growth that you would like or expect, you could fill the tank up so that the water level is up to or over the edge of the water fall so the returning water does not splash at all and disrupts the surface as little as possible. I've also seen where people will take some filter floss padding (the bulk kind like here... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & ) and attach a folded up piece of this filter floss to the end of the waterfall so the filter floss goes into the water about an inch (using nylon ties, stainless steel screw/washer, etc... I've seen several different modifications over the years) so that the returning water kind of flows through the filter media directly into the tank and creates very little surface agitation. I haven't looked around for it much but it seems a darker colored filter floss would be more aesthetic for this purpose but the only darker colored filter floss materials that I've seen are usually the carbon impregnated king. There are black large pore sponge blocks that I have in my Rena Filstar canister filters that would also work for this type of water return. A closed filter system like a canister will hold the CO2 levels higher since the water going through a canister is not aerated at all unless the user has it set up for the returning water to create surface agitation. The HOB's have a lot of surface agitation inside of the filter reservoir which will release some of the CO2 as well. Your Aquaclear should have sponge blocks, etc., in the reservoir which will lessen the CO2 outgasing while the water is in the reservoir. Adding a sponge block to the Penguin will probably help a little also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? > > . > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 > 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:20:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30885	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group...

:( that sucks! and it isn't right. That is almost like stalking someone online. I would imagine that should be taken seriously! good luck with blocking him. So, why didn't banning him work? On 10/5/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Unfortunately, unless I was a Vice-Presidential candidate with the > Secret > Service doing all of the work, Yahoo!, Inc., doesn't even reply to people > with complaints about email/user ID spoofing, hacking, etc. > > I've been giving out Yahoo!, Inc's direct contact info, phone numbers, > email > addresses and even snail mail address for years, on a Yahoo related > technical group and nobody has ever gotten a reply from them. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of L. Gove > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all > bacteria in the tank > > Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u know > more > about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the shark scientists > i > personally know! U are way better than that Jerry guy.. what a jerk! > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie <MargiePhelps@...<MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net<MargiePhelps%2540worldnet.att.net>> > >wrote: > > > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > > -- > > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > > w.j.scott@... <w.j.scott%40verizon.net> <mailto: > w.j.scott%40verizon.net <w.j.scott%2540verizon.net>> > > <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: -------------- > > > > > Hey Guy's > > > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw > > > stones > > if > > > you live in a glass house. > > > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be > > > polite > > with > > > our on line comments. No > > > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , > > > Lenny > > will > > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not spoon, > > > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric system, > > > live > > > > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, it's > > > you > > who > > > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make > > > calculation, of > > > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell > > > me you > > > > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important > > to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40live.com> <mailto: > kwelyroos71%40live.com <kwelyroos71%2540live.com>> on aol > kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 > dark.moon.crafts@... <dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> <mailto: > dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com <dark.moon.crafts%2540gmail.com>> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> <mailto: > kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com <kwelyroos71%2540yahoo.com>> kwelyroos71@...<kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> > <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com <kwelyroos71%2540gmail.com>> > www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering > www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak > www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 > Tested on: 10/4/2008 11:39:02 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 > Tested on: 10/5/2008 2:36:37 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30886	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Atlas of Livebearers of the World.

Wischnath, Lothar, Atlas of Livebearers of the World, 1993, T.F.H., Neptune City, NJ. (TS-180) I would think that we are all familiar with the common livebearers--the guppies, platys, mollies, swordtails, and some may be familiar with gambusia. But, there are many more livebearers than that, and that is what this book does, shows them to us. Unfortunately, this book is out of print, but is available, used, through Amazon, and may possibly be found at your local used book dealer, or from one of those that specialize in aquarium literature (Finley Aquatic Books, the Fish Factory, and The Aquatic Bookshop being three that come to mind. This is a large sized boo, nearly coffee table size. The book starts out with some information on what a livebearer is, and the origin and habitat. Then we get to the fish. First one to be covered is one of my favorites, Anableps anableps, a very interesting fish that happens to be a livebearer. Each fish has at least one photo, and a short narrative description. The book leads you through the various Orders, Families and subfamilies, Genus and Species for the next 260 pages. In my wandering through the book, I have found the descriptions and information to be fairly accurate, and, a rarity for a TFH book, I have not seen a photo of a fish misidentified, though there may be some, of fish with which I am not familiar. The book finishes off with a section on the cultivated forms of guppies, mollies, and swords, some observations of livebearers in the wild, and breeding of domesticated forms. There is a bibliography of literature used and available (by some means), not all of which are in English (German seems to be the other language). And there is an index fish covered in the book, all by scientific name, unless they are a strain that has been developed. If you wish to read about the Montezuma Swordtail, you will need to know it is called _Xiphophorus montezumae_ by science. If your interest in livebearers goes beyond the "normal" livebearers, then it would be worth your time to seek this book out. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30887	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penguin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

The lowering of pH by using CO2 happens because some of the CO2 becomes carbonic acid. The carbonic acid will not blow off, or outgas, since it is no longer a gas. To minimize out gassing via a filter return, you would need to lessen the fall of the water to the surface. This could mean raising your water level, fashioning a return that will let the water. more or less, will slide into the tank, or devise a method to deliver the return under the surface of the water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 10:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? So you're saying that the action of the hang-on-back filters tends to drive CO2 out of the water? I doubt that's true in my case. I specifically bubble air through tap water I'm preparing for the tank in order to lower teh ph from 8.4 to 9.0, to 7.4 to 7.8, the ph of teh water in my tank. Even teh person at the city water quality control lab said taht the ph of our water is artificially high and the minute you can get CO2 into the water it comes down. Once I have the water in my tank the ph doesn't change - unless diatoms eat up all the CO2 adn all the nitrogen wastes (chuckle). Now, I don't know if the amount of CO2 necessary to lower teh ph of the water is adequate to grow plants. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? HOB type filters cause a lot more surface agitation with the returning water fall so the increased surface agitation allows for more gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. While this is good for the fish, it may not be good for the plants if the CO2 levels get too low (you can check your CO2 levels here, using pH, KH and temperature.. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm). Warmer water will hold CO2 better as well so bumping the temp up a little for tropical fish and plants that can tolerate the warmer tropical temps will help with keeping CO2 levels up. Penguin HOB's or other Bio-Wheel HOB's add even higher levels of O2 back into the water because of the Bio-Wheel action. Bio-Wheels are good but the lower priced models tend to have issues with the Bio-Wheel not wanting to spin properly but this also usually means filter maintenance is needed (see my blog article on Filter Maintenance). If you are not seeing the kind of plant growth that you would like or expect, you could fill the tank up so that the water level is up to or over the edge of the water fall so the returning water does not splash at all and disrupts the surface as little as possible. I've also seen where people will take some filter floss padding (the bulk kind like here... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & ) and attach a folded up piece of this filter floss to the end of the waterfall so the filter floss goes into the water about an inch (using nylon ties, stainless steel screw/washer, etc... I've seen several different modifications over the years) so that the returning water kind of flows through the filter media directly into the tank and creates very little surface agitation. I haven't looked around for it much but it seems a darker colored filter floss would be more aesthetic for this purpose but the only darker colored filter floss materials that I've seen are usually the carbon impregnated king. There are black large pore sponge blocks that I have in my Rena Filstar canister filters that would also work for this type of water return. A closed filter system like a canister will hold the CO2 levels higher since the water going through a canister is not aerated at all unless the user has it set up for the returning water to create surface agitation. The HOB's have a lot of surface agitation inside of the filter reservoir which will release some of the CO2 as well. Your Aquaclear should have sponge blocks, etc., in the reservoir which will lessen the CO2 outgasing while the water is in the reservoir. Adding a sponge block to the Penguin will probably help a little also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30888	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: My apologies to the group...

I send stuff to them all the time as a moderator/owner in regards to people spamming or other TOS violations and I always get a response albeit a form letter telling me that they can’t disclose what actions are being taken, etc, etc I think you have to go through the abuse complaint form they have on their site rather then send an email. Once they respond I thin you can forward the actual email with header information so they can take action against the person. I had one guy start threatening me and all sorts of other BS that I forwarded to Yahoo and they yanked his account. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 2:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My apologies to the group... Unfortunately, unless I was a Vice-Presidential candidate with the Secret Service doing all of the work, Yahoo!, Inc., doesn't even reply to people with complaints about email/user ID spoofing, hacking, etc. I've been giving out Yahoo!, Inc's direct contact info, phone numbers, email addresses and even snail mail address for years, on a Yahoo related technical group and nobody has ever gotten a reply from them. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u know more about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the shark scientists i personally know! U are way better than that Jerry guy.. what a jerk! On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie <MargiePhelps@ <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> worldnet.att.net <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> >wrote: > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> .com/o1518107464/shelf> > http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdo <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> ll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > w.j.scott@verizon. <mailto:w.j.scott%40verizon.net> net <mailto:w.j.scott%40verizon.net> > <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: -------------- > > > Hey Guy's > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw > > stones > if > > you live in a glass house. > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be > > polite > with > > our on line comments. No > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , > > Lenny > will > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not spoon, > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric system, > > live > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, it's > > you > who > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make > > calculation, of > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell > > me you > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important > to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> live.com <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@ <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> gmail.com <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> gmail.com <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/4/2008 11:39:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 2:36:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30889	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

Where did I say that? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? You're also saying that the carbonate hardness of my water changes with teh amount of dissolved carbon dioxide and the ph? OK, that's easy to check. Grin. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? HOB type filters cause a lot more surface agitation with the returning water fall so the increased surface agitation allows for more gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. While this is good for the fish, it may not be good for the plants if the CO2 levels get too low (you can check your CO2 levels here, using pH, KH and temperature.. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm> ). Warmer water will hold CO2 better as well so bumping the temp up a little for tropical fish and plants that can tolerate the warmer tropical temps will help with keeping CO2 levels up. Penguin HOB's or other Bio-Wheel HOB's add even higher levels of O2 back into the water because of the Bio-Wheel action. Bio-Wheels are good but the lower priced models tend to have issues with the Bio-Wheel not wanting to spin properly but this also usually means filter maintenance is needed (see my blog article on Filter Maintenance). If you are not seeing the kind of plant growth that you would like or expect, you could fill the tank up so that the water level is up to or over the edge of the water fall so the returning water does not splash at all and disrupts the surface as little as possible. I've also seen where people will take some filter floss padding (the bulk kind like here... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231> <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231& <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & > > & ) and attach a folded up piece of this filter floss to the end of the waterfall so the filter floss goes into the water about an inch (using nylon ties, stainless steel screw/washer, etc... I've seen several different modifications over the years) so that the returning water kind of flows through the filter media directly into the tank and creates very little surface agitation. I haven't looked around for it much but it seems a darker colored filter floss would be more aesthetic for this purpose but the only darker colored filter floss materials that I've seen are usually the carbon impregnated king. There are black large pore sponge blocks that I have in my Rena Filstar canister filters that would also work for this type of water return. A closed filter system like a canister will hold the CO2 levels higher since the water going through a canister is not aerated at all unless the user has it set up for the returning water to create surface agitation. The HOB's have a lot of surface agitation inside of the filter reservoir which will release some of the CO2 as well. Your Aquaclear should have sponge blocks, etc., in the reservoir which will lessen the CO2 outgasing while the water is in the reservoir. Adding a sponge block to the Penguin will probably help a little also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? > > . > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 > 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:20:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:38:03 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 12:20:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30890	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

Dora, It's true in EVERY case. Increased surface agitation will cause ingasing of O2 and outgasing of CO2. Zero surface agitation will allow the tank water to have a higher CO2 level and lower O2 level which is why stagnant bodies of water do not support advanced life forms very well but grow algae extremely well. You can read about this in countless planted tank forums, articles, etc., where those who bubble/inject CO2 into their planted tanks strive for minimal surface agitation so they do not immediately lose the CO2 they just injected into the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? So you're saying that the action of the hang-on-back filters tends to drive CO2 out of the water? I doubt that's true in my case. I specifically bubble air through tap water I'm preparing for the tank in order to lower teh ph from 8.4 to 9.0, to 7.4 to 7.8, the ph of teh water in my tank. Even teh person at the city water quality control lab said taht the ph of our water is artificially high and the minute you can get CO2 into the water it comes down. Once I have the water in my tank the ph doesn't change - unless diatoms eat up all the CO2 adn all the nitrogen wastes (chuckle). Now, I don't know if the amount of CO2 necessary to lower teh ph of the water is adequate to grow plants. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? HOB type filters cause a lot more surface agitation with the returning water fall so the increased surface agitation allows for more gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. While this is good for the fish, it may not be good for the plants if the CO2 levels get too low (you can check your CO2 levels here, using pH, KH and temperature.. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm> ). Warmer water will hold CO2 better as well so bumping the temp up a little for tropical fish and plants that can tolerate the warmer tropical temps will help with keeping CO2 levels up. Penguin HOB's or other Bio-Wheel HOB's add even higher levels of O2 back into the water because of the Bio-Wheel action. Bio-Wheels are good but the lower priced models tend to have issues with the Bio-Wheel not wanting to spin properly but this also usually means filter maintenance is needed (see my blog article on Filter Maintenance). If you are not seeing the kind of plant growth that you would like or expect, you could fill the tank up so that the water level is up to or over the edge of the water fall so the returning water does not splash at all and disrupts the surface as little as possible. I've also seen where people will take some filter floss padding (the bulk kind like here... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231> <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231& <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & > > & ) and attach a folded up piece of this filter floss to the end of the waterfall so the filter floss goes into the water about an inch (using nylon ties, stainless steel screw/washer, etc... I've seen several different modifications over the years) so that the returning water kind of flows through the filter media directly into the tank and creates very little surface agitation. I haven't looked around for it much but it seems a darker colored filter floss would be more aesthetic for this purpose but the only darker colored filter floss materials that I've seen are usually the carbon impregnated king. There are black large pore sponge blocks that I have in my Rena Filstar canister filters that would also work for this type of water return. A closed filter system like a canister will hold the CO2 levels higher since the water going through a canister is not aerated at all unless the user has it set up for the returning water to create surface agitation. The HOB's have a lot of surface agitation inside of the filter reservoir which will release some of the CO2 as well. Your Aquaclear should have sponge blocks, etc., in the reservoir which will lessen the CO2 outgasing while the water is in the reservoir. Adding a sponge block to the Penguin will probably help a little also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? > > . > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 > 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:20:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:38:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 12:18:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30891	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

Have a planted tank and I use 2 emperor 400’s (both have biowheels) and my plants and fish thrive. I am not using any CO2 additive at all. My biowheels don’t’ spin very fast, so maybe there is less aeration because of that? I have also since removed the covers from the filters and put pothos plants in the reservoir, where they thrive. I just have to get so good lighting for the pothos now :-D (currently I am using a desk lamp until I can get something to hang from the ceiling). _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? HOB type filters cause a lot more surface agitation with the returning water fall so the increased surface agitation allows for more gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. While this is good for the fish, it may not be good for the plants if the CO2 levels get too low (you can check your CO2 levels here, using pH, KH and temperature.. http://www.csd. <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm). Warmer water will hold CO2 better as well so bumping the temp up a little for tropical fish and plants that can tolerate the warmer tropical temps will help with keeping CO2 levels up. Penguin HOB's or other Bio-Wheel HOB's add even higher levels of O2 back into the water because of the Bio-Wheel action. Bio-Wheels are good but the lower priced models tend to have issues with the Bio-Wheel not wanting to spin properly but this also usually means filter maintenance is needed (see my blog article on Filter Maintenance). If you are not seeing the kind of plant growth that you would like or expect, you could fill the tank up so that the water level is up to or over the edge of the water fall so the returning water does not splash at all and disrupts the surface as little as possible. I've also seen where people will take some filter floss padding (the bulk kind like here... http://www.drsfoste <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231> rsmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfoste <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> rsmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & ) and attach a folded up piece of this filter floss to the end of the waterfall so the filter floss goes into the water about an inch (using nylon ties, stainless steel screw/washer, etc... I've seen several different modifications over the years) so that the returning water kind of flows through the filter media directly into the tank and creates very little surface agitation. I haven't looked around for it much but it seems a darker colored filter floss would be more aesthetic for this purpose but the only darker colored filter floss materials that I've seen are usually the carbon impregnated king. There are black large pore sponge blocks that I have in my Rena Filstar canister filters that would also work for this type of water return. A closed filter system like a canister will hold the CO2 levels higher since the water going through a canister is not aerated at all unless the user has it set up for the returning water to create surface agitation. The HOB's have a lot of surface agitation inside of the filter reservoir which will release some of the CO2 as well. Your Aquaclear should have sponge blocks, etc., in the reservoir which will lessen the CO2 outgasing while the water is in the reservoir. Adding a sponge block to the Penguin will probably help a little also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? > > . > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 > 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:20:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30892	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Starting Over

Okay, so the last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I have my Mollies in the 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does have a little high ph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I empty it and start over or do I just continue to check the stats and see if it fully cycles and then add a danio or somthing? I just do not know what exactly killed the fish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If I continue to cycle do I need to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive? or do I just let it filter and what about the lights? Do they need to stay the same or can they stay off? ThanksSarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling Question I think you would have been better off NOT using the Cycle product. Itsimply does not work as advertised and actually made the cycling conditionsworse for me when I tried it a few years back.Remember that the nitrifying bacteria in the filter media will only grow alarge enough colony to handle the bioload of the tank that it is on. If youonly have one fish, then the filter will only have enough N-bacteria tohandle the bioload of one fish. If you have ten fish, then the N-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger to handle the bioload of the ten fish.If the filter has been running on the 2.5G for several weeks and wasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it will have enough of the goodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10G tank. If you movedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added more fish, then youwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until the N-bacteria colonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload that more fish wouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies and then do a PWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also do PWC's on the2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and then just movethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel or decorations inthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning on a differentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colander or stocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your new substrate can grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge from my 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long til thistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media? I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lolSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. This is because you are into your first phase of cycling so theammoniaeating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony tohandle theammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The nextphase will bethe nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitriteto nitratebut until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.Ibelieve you are still running a high level of salt so that willpartiallyprotect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get thenitritelevel down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replacetheremoved salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now buthopefullyyou do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water andslowlypour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DONOTpour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there's noguarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me ascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs the nitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm isWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > >Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned my lessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was since ithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a new parasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, which unfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean the entiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-like pasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of the waterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strong saltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfilter systemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetank againuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Then refillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank for fishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking around atotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things in thenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be ready tomakeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a halfhour ago. It was swimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to bepushed by the currents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scaleswere poking out, but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxicteen) and its tummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air andeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was pickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They hadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size buthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the deadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales weregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought thehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with themelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking out like a pinecone but thegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of what you are seeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind of remember itbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads got prettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas of whatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks before throwingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it could simplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tank soitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish are notarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlid tankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves in anoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot about HITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the number oftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it's notjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't a festeringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting in thehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting larger breedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related to dietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which are theonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their lives inlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed proper dietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only make thewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are very BIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55G tanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatis thebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as much proteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterquality issueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles I have inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learned aboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentand moredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsold andbased onthe best sciencereferences available at thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008Tested on: 10/3/2008 2:34:06 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30893	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank that I adopted. Several people think it may be a Pristella/X-Ray Tetra...and I am inclined to agree. However, it lacks a red tail...its tail is silver. It has been suggested that this is perhaps because the fish are stressed in some way and their color has faded. Before I get them some friends to school with, I am hoping to get their colors back to "normal" if possible...so I can confirm that they are indeed Pristella and I am buying them friends of the correct species. Therefore, I am looking for theories about either why they are stressed, why their color is off, etc.... I have no memory of their tails ever being orange/red and I have had them for 2 years. Of course that may not be worth anything since I am not a particularly observant person. :p Here are the water conditions: Temp- 80, pH- 7.2 to 7.3, KH 2, GH 10, NH3/NH4 - 0, NO2- 0, NO3- 10-20 Tank Size- 20g Tankmates: 2 Longfin Blackskirt Tetra, 3 Zebra Danios My only current theories are: a) its not really a Pristella or b) they are stressed out by danios and/or lack of school (there are only 2 of them). ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30894	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Do you possibly have a picture you can post? That would help... the colors definitely be subdued if the fish are stressed. Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: flohk13@... Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:10:35 -0400 Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank that I adopted. Several people think it may be a Pristella/X-Ray Tetra...and I am inclined to agree. However, it lacks a red tail...its tail is silver. It has been suggested that this is perhaps because the fish are stressed in some way and their color has faded. Before I get them some friends to school with, I am hoping to get their colors back to "normal" if possible...so I can confirm that they are indeed Pristella and I am buying them friends of the correct species. Therefore, I am looking for theories about either why they are stressed, why their color is off, etc.... I have no memory of their tails ever being orange/red and I have had them for 2 years. Of course that may not be worth anything since I am not a particularly observant person. :p Here are the water conditions: Temp- 80, pH- 7.2 to 7.3, KH 2, GH 10, NH3/NH4 - 0, NO2- 0, NO3- 10-20 Tank Size- 20g Tankmates: 2 Longfin Blackskirt Tetra, 3 Zebra Danios My only current theories are: a) its not really a Pristella or b) they are stressed out by danios and/or lack of school (there are only 2 of them). ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30895	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

Also, I just tested my rock substrate and it bubbles with distilled viniger which is only 5% alkaline. I'm assuming this is bad and so I will start looking for new substrate. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom: cheese911@...: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:22:17 -0500Subject: [AquaticLife] Starting Over Okay, so the last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I have my Mollies in the 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does have a little high ph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I empty it and start over or do I just continue to check the stats and see if it fully cycles and then add a danio or somthing? I just do not know what exactly killed the fish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If I continue to cycle do I need to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive? or do I just let it filter and what about the lights? Do they need to stay the same or can they stay off? ThanksSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionI think you would have been better off NOT using the Cycle product. Itsimply does not work as advertised and actually made the cycling conditionsworse for me when I tried it a few years back.Remember that the nitrifying bacteria in the filter media will only grow alarge enough colony to handle the bioload of the tank that it is on. If youonly have one fish, then the filter will only have enough N-bacteria tohandle the bioload of one fish. If you have ten fish, then the N-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger to handle the bioload of the ten fish.If the filter has been running on the 2.5G for several weeks and wasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it will have enough of the goodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10G tank. If you movedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added more fish, then youwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until the N-bacteria colonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload that more fish wouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies and then do a PWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also do PWC's on the2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and then just movethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel or decorations inthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning on a differentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colander or stocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your new substrate can grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge from my 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long til thistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media? I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lolSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. This is because you are into your first phase of cycling so theammoniaeating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony tohandle theammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The nextphase will bethe nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitriteto nitratebut until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.Ibelieve you are still running a high level of salt so that willpartiallyprotect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get thenitritelevel down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replacetheremoved salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now buthopefullyyou do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water andslowlypour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DONOTpour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there's noguarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me ascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs the nitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm isWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > >Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned my lessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was since ithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a new parasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, which unfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean the entiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-like pasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of the waterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strong saltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfilter systemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetank againuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Then refillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank for fishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking around atotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things in thenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be ready tomakeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a halfhour ago. It was swimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to bepushed by the currents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scaleswere poking out, but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxicteen) and its tummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air andeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was pickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They hadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size buthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the deadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales weregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought thehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with themelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking out like a pinecone but thegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of what you are seeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind of remember itbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads got prettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas of whatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks before throwingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it could simplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tank soitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish are notarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlid tankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves in anoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot about HITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the number oftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it's notjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't a festeringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting in thehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting larger breedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related to dietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which are theonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their lives inlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed proper dietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only make thewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are very BIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55G tanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatis thebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as much proteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterquality issueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles I have inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learned aboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentand moredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsold andbased onthe best sciencereferences available at thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081003-0, 10/03/2008Tested on: 10/3/2008 2:34:06 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30896	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank

Well, Lenny can contact Yahoo about this Jerry guy, but Jerry guy seems sufficiently technologically competent to get around Yahoo. You could always write his ISP, assuming he doesn't simply use teh public library. You could even contact them. Their terminals aren't to be used for abuse! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u know more about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the shark scientists i personally know! U are way better than that Jerry guy.. what a jerk! On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie <MargiePhelps@...>wrote: > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > w.j.scott@... <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: -------------- > > > Hey Guy's > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw stones > if > > you live in a glass house. > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be polite > with > > our on line comments. No > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny > will > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not spoon, > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric system, > > live > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, it's you > who > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make calculation, of > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell me > > you > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30897	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Pristellas come in a variety of color variations, and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank that I adopted. Several people think it may be a Pristella/X-Ray Tetra...and I am inclined to agree. However, it lacks a red tail...its tail is silver. It has been suggested that this is perhaps because the fish are stressed in some way and their color has faded. Before I get them some friends to school with, I am hoping to get their colors back to "normal" if possible...so I can confirm that they are indeed Pristella and I am buying them friends of the correct species. Therefore, I am looking for theories about either why they are stressed, why their color is off, etc.... I have no memory of their tails ever being orange/red and I have had them for 2 years. Of course that may not be worth anything since I am not a particularly observant person. :p Here are the water conditions: Temp- 80, pH- 7.2 to 7.3, KH 2, GH 10, NH3/NH4 - 0, NO2- 0, NO3- 10-20 Tank Size- 20g Tankmates: 2 Longfin Blackskirt Tetra, 3 Zebra Danios My only current theories are: a) its not really a Pristella or b) they are stressed out by danios and/or lack of school (there are only 2 of them). ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30898	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

Do you mean that they supersaturate their water with CO2, Lenny? Because if that is what is going on, then I'd expect keeping the CO2 in solution to be a problem. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Dora, It's true in EVERY case. Increased surface agitation will cause ingasing of O2 and outgasing of CO2. Zero surface agitation will allow the tank water to have a higher CO2 level and lower O2 level which is why stagnant bodies of water do not support advanced life forms very well but grow algae extremely well. You can read about this in countless planted tank forums, articles, etc., where those who bubble/inject CO2 into their planted tanks strive for minimal surface agitation so they do not immediately lose the CO2 they just injected into the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? So you're saying that the action of the hang-on-back filters tends to drive CO2 out of the water? I doubt that's true in my case. I specifically bubble air through tap water I'm preparing for the tank in order to lower teh ph from 8.4 to 9.0, to 7.4 to 7.8, the ph of teh water in my tank. Even teh person at the city water quality control lab said taht the ph of our water is artificially high and the minute you can get CO2 into the water it comes down. Once I have the water in my tank the ph doesn't change - unless diatoms eat up all the CO2 adn all the nitrogen wastes (chuckle). Now, I don't know if the amount of CO2 necessary to lower teh ph of the water is adequate to grow plants. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? HOB type filters cause a lot more surface agitation with the returning water fall so the increased surface agitation allows for more gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. While this is good for the fish, it may not be good for the plants if the CO2 levels get too low (you can check your CO2 levels here, using pH, KH and temperature.. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm> ). Warmer water will hold CO2 better as well so bumping the temp up a little for tropical fish and plants that can tolerate the warmer tropical temps will help with keeping CO2 levels up. Penguin HOB's or other Bio-Wheel HOB's add even higher levels of O2 back into the water because of the Bio-Wheel action. Bio-Wheels are good but the lower priced models tend to have issues with the Bio-Wheel not wanting to spin properly but this also usually means filter maintenance is needed (see my blog article on Filter Maintenance). If you are not seeing the kind of plant growth that you would like or expect, you could fill the tank up so that the water level is up to or over the edge of the water fall so the returning water does not splash at all and disrupts the surface as little as possible. I've also seen where people will take some filter floss padding (the bulk kind like here... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231> <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231& <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & > > & ) and attach a folded up piece of this filter floss to the end of the waterfall so the filter floss goes into the water about an inch (using nylon ties, stainless steel screw/washer, etc... I've seen several different modifications over the years) so that the returning water kind of flows through the filter media directly into the tank and creates very little surface agitation. I haven't looked around for it much but it seems a darker colored filter floss would be more aesthetic for this purpose but the only darker colored filter floss materials that I've seen are usually the carbon impregnated king. There are black large pore sponge blocks that I have in my Rena Filstar canister filters that would also work for this type of water return. A closed filter system like a canister will hold the CO2 levels higher since the water going through a canister is not aerated at all unless the user has it set up for the returning water to create surface agitation. The HOB's have a lot of surface agitation inside of the filter reservoir which will release some of the CO2 as well. Your Aquaclear should have sponge blocks, etc., in the reservoir which will lessen the CO2 outgasing while the water is in the reservoir. Adding a sponge block to the Penguin will probably help a little also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? > > . > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 > 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:20:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:38:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 12:18:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30899	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

I'm not srue you said it, Lenny. One of you said that CO2 in the water varies with the ph, the KH, and the temperature, if I understood right. I was checking to see if I did. Whoever said it, I did an experiment. I don't have a means to check the temperature of water in the test tube. But I took steps to control for temperature. Most water I tested was at room temperature. I tested the tap water immediately after coming uot of the tap and after it had sat around for half an hour and come up to room temperature. I tested teh tank water after ti had sat around and come down to room temperature. water fresh from tap - ph 8.4 to 8.8 (deep true purple), KH 4, GH 7 Tap water allowed to come to room temperatuer: ph same as befoer, KH and GH same as before. water in bucket that sat around all night but did NOT have air bubbling thruogh it; PH 8.2 (mauve), KH 4, GH 7. (This bucket was treated with Prime and had 2 tsps salt added to 2 1/2 gallons of water) Water in the bucket after air was bubbled through it for five hours: Ph 7.4, KH 4, GH 7. Water from tank; PH 7.4, KH 3, GH 9. I tested the KH and the GH each twice. Phosphate levels from tank and from fresh tap water were the same identical hard to place on the card shade of light olive green. Which means that probably microplant life in the tank didn't alter teh KH. However ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels were ALL zero. It is possible that that last is because I do a 10% water change each night, but I'm used to seeing level aruond 5. Which suggests that microplant life may be active. I wonder if salt has built up in the water, raising the GH, even though I do a 10% water change each day and 50% water change once a week and the aquarium is tightly covered except for a little bit of opening around the filter pumps. But I don't find any support for the idea that the KH varies with the CO2 level in the tank. You can clearly see that I can immediately lower the ph of water to be added to the tank by bubbling air through the water, as the person at the city water quality control lab predicted. But the KH does not change in any way consistent with additonal CO2 affecting the level. Besides, isn't the carbonate hardness simply the capacity of the tank to react with acid, or something? It is carbonate, bicarbonate, adn a couple of other negative ions, all expressed in terms of molar units of carbonate thruogh complicated mathematical formulas. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 12:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Where did I say that? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? You're also saying that the carbonate hardness of my water changes with teh amount of dissolved carbon dioxide and the ph? OK, that's easy to check. Grin. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? HOB type filters cause a lot more surface agitation with the returning water fall so the increased surface agitation allows for more gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. While this is good for the fish, it may not be good for the plants if the CO2 levels get too low (you can check your CO2 levels here, using pH, KH and temperature.. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm> ). Warmer water will hold CO2 better as well so bumping the temp up a little for tropical fish and plants that can tolerate the warmer tropical temps will help with keeping CO2 levels up. Penguin HOB's or other Bio-Wheel HOB's add even higher levels of O2 back into the water because of the Bio-Wheel action. Bio-Wheels are good but the lower priced models tend to have issues with the Bio-Wheel not wanting to spin properly but this also usually means filter maintenance is needed (see my blog article on Filter Maintenance). If you are not seeing the kind of plant growth that you would like or expect, you could fill the tank up so that the water level is up to or over the edge of the water fall so the returning water does not splash at all and disrupts the surface as little as possible. I've also seen where people will take some filter floss padding (the bulk kind like here... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231> <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231& <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & > > & ) and attach a folded up piece of this filter floss to the end of the waterfall so the filter floss goes into the water about an inch (using nylon ties, stainless steel screw/washer, etc... I've seen several different modifications over the years) so that the returning water kind of flows through the filter media directly into the tank and creates very little surface agitation. I haven't looked around for it much but it seems a darker colored filter floss would be more aesthetic for this purpose but the only darker colored filter floss materials that I've seen are usually the carbon impregnated king. There are black large pore sponge blocks that I have in my Rena Filstar canister filters that would also work for this type of water return. A closed filter system like a canister will hold the CO2 levels higher since the water going through a canister is not aerated at all unless the user has it set up for the returning water to create surface agitation. The HOB's have a lot of surface agitation inside of the filter reservoir which will release some of the CO2 as well. Your Aquaclear should have sponge blocks, etc., in the reservoir which will lessen the CO2 outgasing while the water is in the reservoir. Adding a sponge block to the Penguin will probably help a little also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? > > . > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 > 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:20:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:38:03 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 12:20:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30900	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations, and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30901	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Okay, the photos are currently waiting to be approved. But after they are, they will be in the photos section under "Flohk13's Photos". -----Original Message----- From: ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 9:28 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Do you possibly have a picture you can post? That would help... the colors definitely be subdued if the fish are stressed. Grey To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: flohk13@... Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:10:35 -0400 Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank that I adopted. Several people think it may be a Pristella/X-Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

I've never owned them but I just did a Google Image search for "pristella tetra" and I see quite a few color variations including some without orange colored tails and the tails look silvery colored. If the below link breaks, which is likely, just go to Google and type in "pristella tetra" (with quotes), then click the Images link. http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22 <http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22&btnG=Search+Images& um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2> &btnG=Search+Images&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2 This Fishbase.org profile (one of the best scientific profile databases available on the net) shows the Pristella with a silver tail. http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Frenc h%20Guiana <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren ch%20Guiana&Genus=Pristella&Species=maxillaris> &Genus=Pristella&Species=maxillaris Presuming that link will also break, go to http://www.fishbase.org and in the top field for Common Names, type in Pristella and click search. You'll see several profiles on them. Here's another Fishbase.org profile on the Pristella Tetra. http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10697 In the "More Information" section of Fishbase profiles, you can read more about the various links included in that section. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations, and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:30:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 10:21:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30903	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

I just took a look at your pics and I see yours do not have the color bands on the anal fins either. Here's another link off of Fishbase with four pictures of Pristella's and you'll see where one of them is just like yours with the silvery tail and no bands on the anal fin. I haven't found where this is a way to distinguish sex so it could just be a color variation due to inbreeding. http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.php?ID=10697 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations, and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:30:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 10:28:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30904	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

If you go to this page, you will see pristellas with varying depth of color on the caudal. The third picture shows two fish with what seems to be an absence of color in the caudal fin. http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/species-gallery/characins/maxillaris.html TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/47t359 It appears it may be a natural variation in color. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I just took a look at your pics and I see yours do not have the color bands on the anal fins either. Here's another link off of Fishbase with four pictures of Pristella's and you'll see where one of them is just like yours with the silvery tail and no bands on the anal fin. I haven't found where this is a way to distinguish sex so it could just be a color variation due to inbreeding. http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.php?ID=10697 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations, and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:30:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 10:28:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30905	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Thanks! Yeah, both of them have a very distinct band of orange in the dorsal fin (its more distinct than the picture let's on), but do not have any coloration on either the tail or anal fin, or on their bodies in general. They both have the exact same coloration, but perhaps they are related. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:28 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I just took a look at your pics and I see yours do not have the color bands on the anal fins either. Here's another link off of Fishbase with four pictures of Pristella's and you'll see where one of them is just like yours with the silvery tail and no bands on the anal fin. I haven't found where this is a way to distinguish sex so it could just be a color variation due to inbreeding. http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.php?ID=10697 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations, and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:30:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 10:28:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30906	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Thanks! The one fishbase.org seems, to me, to have a bit of red in its tail. But upon closer inspection of some of the google images...I can see how the amount of color could vary so perhaps mine is just quite light, or in this lighting looks completely silver, etc... Another question....What level of taxa is required to form a school? Example... Will species of the same genus school? Will variations of different species school? Example....will all gold and normal Pristella maxillaris school?              ....Will all Pristella spp. school? I just want to figure out how refined I need to be in my conclusions before purchasing the fish. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:21 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I've never owned them but I just did a Google Image search for "pristella tetra" and I see quite a few color variations including some without orange colored tails and the tails look silvery colored. If the below link breaks, which is likely, just go to Google and type in "pristella tetra" (with quotes), then click the Images link. http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22 <http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22&btnG=Search+Images& um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2> &btnG=Search+Images&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2 This Fishbase.org profile (one of the best scientific profile databases ava ilable on the net) shows the Pristella with a silver tail. http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Frenc h%20Guiana <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren ch%20Guiana&Genus=Pristella&Species=maxillaris> &Genus=Pristella&Species=maxillaris Presuming that link will also break, go to http://www.fishbase.org and in the top field for Common Names, type in Pristella and click search. You'll see several profiles on them. Here's another Fishbase.org profile on the Pristella Tetra. http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10697 In the "More Information" section of Fishbase profiles, you can read more about the various links included in that section. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations,20and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:30:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 10:21:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·=C 2¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30907	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Awesome. Thank you so much! -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:21 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress If you go to this page, you will see pristellas with varying depth of color on the caudal. The third picture shows two fish with what seems to be an absence of color in the caudal fin. http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/species-gallery/characins/maxillaris.html TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/47t359 It appears it may be a natural variation in color. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I just took a look at your pics and I see yours do not have the color bands on the anal fins either. Here's another link off of Fishbase with four pictures of Pristella's and you'll see where one of them is just like yours with the silvery tail and no bands on the anal fin. I haven't found where this is a way to distinguish sex so it could just be a color variation due to inbreeding. http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.php?ID=10697 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ----- Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations, and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:30:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 10:28:04 PM avast! - copyr ight (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links < *> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30908	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Australian blue yabbies.

Yeah, i'm Australian   Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30909	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/5/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Sometimes fish from the same genus, if closely related, will school but you can't count on it. When they are from the same species, even with color variations, they will usually school... but sometimes the fish do not read the same things we do or they choose to not follow the rules. ;-) Now, there is still a chance of them experiencing some level of stress since they are not in a full school but do not rush out and get new fish without quarantining them first. You don't want to expose your new adoptees to any new pathogens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 11:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Thanks! The one fishbase.org seems, to me, to have a bit of red in its tail. But upon closer inspection of some of the google images...I can see how the amount of color could vary so perhaps mine is just quite light, or in this lighting looks completely silver, etc... Another question....What level of taxa is required to form a school? Example... Will species of the same genus school? Will variations of different species school? Example....will all gold and normal Pristella maxillaris school? ....Will all Pristella spp. school? I just want to figure out how refined I need to be in my conclusions before purchasing the fish. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:21 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I've never owned them but I just did a Google Image search for "pristella tetra" and I see quite a few color variations including some without orange colored tails and the tails look silvery colored. If the below link breaks, which is likely, just go to Google and type in "pristella tetra" (with quotes), then click the Images link. http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22 <http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22> <http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22 <http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22&btnG=Search+Images& <http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22&btnG=Search+Images& > &btnG=Search+Images& > um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2> &btnG=Search+Images&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2 This Fishbase.org profile (one of the best scientific profile databases ava ilable on the net) shows the Pristella with a silver tail. http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Frenc <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren c> h%20Guiana <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren > > ch%20Guiana&Genus=Pristella&Species=maxillaris> &Genus=Pristella&Species=maxillaris Presuming that link will also break, go to http://www.fishbase.org <http://www.fishbase.org> and in the top field for Common Names, type in Pristella and click search. You'll see several profiles on them. Here's another Fishbase.org profile on the Pristella Tetra. http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10697 <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10697> In the "More Information" section of Fishbase profiles, you can read more about the various links included in that section. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations,20and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 11:51:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

I would clean and disinfect the entire 35G system since there was obviously some kind of very nasty pathogen in it that wiped out your fish rather quickly. A pH of 8 is fine.. especially for livebearers like mollies but also for most other common tropical fish as long as you slowly acclimate any newly purchased fish to your water. Also remember that the pH of a tank will ALWAYS come down in a tank that does not have something in it raising the pH. It's better to start off with a little higher pH so that the natural tank ecology will not cause the pH to crash. Of course, knowing the KH levels would tell us more about how stable your pH will remain. You mention your hardness being a little high but is that KH (Carbonate Hardness) or GH (German Hardness)? How long has the 10G been running? Didn't you recently clone a 2.5G into the 10G? In either case, if the filter was fully cycled on the 2.5G, which is now in the 10G, then after you clean the 35G, you can clone the 10G into the 35G by moving the filter, gravel, decorations, etc.. You shouldn't have any kind of cycling issue at all since you will have so much water volume to dilute the little bioload of the two mollies. Then you can use the 10G and 2.5G to quarantine any new fish you buy. On a side note... did you ever fool with your settings in Hotmail or your email client to figure out what is stripping all of the formatting out of messages that you reply to? I don't even try to review much of your threads as they look like discombobulated mumbo-jumbo. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:22 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Starting Over Okay, so the last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I have my Mollies in the 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does have a little high ph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I empty it and start over or do I just continue to check the stats and see if it fully cycles and then add a danio or somthing? I just do not know what exactly killed the fish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If I continue to cycle do I need to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive? or do I just let it filter and what about the lights? Do they need to stay the same or can they stay off? ThanksSarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri, 3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling Question I think you would have been better off NOT using the Cycle product. Itsimply does not work as advertised and actually made the cycling conditionsworse for me when I tried it a few years back.Remember that the nitrifying bacteria in the filter media will only grow alarge enough colony to handle the bioload of the tank that it is on. If youonly have one fish, then the filter will only have enough N-bacteria tohandle the bioload of one fish. If you have ten fish, then the N-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger to handle the bioload of the ten fish.If the filter has been running on the 2.5G for several weeks and wasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it will have enough of the goodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10G tank. If you movedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added more fish, then youwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until the N-bacteria colonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload that more fish wouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies and then do a PWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also do PWC's on the2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and then just movethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel or decorations inthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning on a differentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colander or stocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your new substrate can grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge from my 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long til thistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media? I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lolSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. This is because you are into your first phase of cycling so theammoniaeating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony tohandle theammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The nextphase will bethe nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitriteto nitratebut until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.Ibelieve you are still running a high level of salt so that willpartiallyprotect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get thenitritelevel down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replacetheremoved salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now buthopefullyyou do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water andslowlypour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DONOTpour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there's noguarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me ascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs the nitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm isWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > >Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned my lessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was since ithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a new parasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, which unfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean the entiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-like pasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of the waterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strong saltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfilter systemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetank againuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Then refillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank for fishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking around atotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things in thenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be ready tomakeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a halfhour ago. It was swimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to bepushed by the currents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scaleswere poking out, but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxicteen) and its tummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air andeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was pickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They hadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size buthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the deadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales weregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought thehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with themelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking out like a pinecone but thegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of what you are seeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind of remember itbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads got prettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas of whatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks before throwingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it could simplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tank soitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish are notarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlid tankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves in anoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot about HITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the number oftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it's notjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't a festeringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting in thehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting larger breedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related to dietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which are theonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their lives inlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed proper dietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only make thewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are very BIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55G tanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatis thebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as much proteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterquality issueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles I have inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learned aboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentand moredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsold andbased onthe best sciencereferences available at thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.ph phttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 2:08:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

The CO2 doesn't really "vary" depending on the rest of the water parameters as much as it either stays in solution or outgases more due to water temp and agitation rate... and of course whether it is being utilized by plants or algae during photosynthesis. The pH will vary depending on the CO2 level in a tank and other water parameters. The higher the CO2 level, the lower the pH in most cases. There can be exceptions. KH and GH levels should test the same regardless of the temp, pH or CO2 levels. I really do not think you need to be bubbling your tap water for hours. If you are doing regular small PWC's, then the pH of the tap will be immediately diluted by the tanks pH level and then the agitation from your filters will quickly allow CO2 to ingas/outgas from the water as needed until it reaches it's normal/stable saturation level. It's up to you if you wish to do this extra step but when doing 10-25% PWC's, it will not really affect your fish especially if the pH level is a direct result of the CO2 level in your tap. Many people with planted tanks and ponds see large pH swings of more than 1.0 from nighttime to daylight due to the CO2 levels rising during nighttime (no photosynthesis going on). For some reason (thanks to God), pH swings caused by CO2 levels do not affect fish like another type of pH swing might cause from a pH crash or spike due to chemicals being added to the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? I'm not srue you said it, Lenny. One of you said that CO2 in the water varies with the ph, the KH, and the temperature, if I understood right. I was checking to see if I did. Whoever said it, I did an experiment. I don't have a means to check the temperature of water in the test tube. But I took steps to control for temperature. Most water I tested was at room temperature. I tested the tap water immediately after coming uot of the tap and after it had sat around for half an hour and come up to room temperature. I tested teh tank water after ti had sat around and come down to room temperature. water fresh from tap - ph 8.4 to 8.8 (deep true purple), KH 4, GH 7 Tap water allowed to come to room temperatuer: ph same as befoer, KH and GH same as before. water in bucket that sat around all night but did NOT have air bubbling thruogh it; PH 8.2 (mauve), KH 4, GH 7. (This bucket was treated with Prime and had 2 tsps salt added to 2 1/2 gallons of water) Water in the bucket after air was bubbled through it for five hours: Ph 7.4, KH 4, GH 7. Water from tank; PH 7.4, KH 3, GH 9. I tested the KH and the GH each twice. Phosphate levels from tank and from fresh tap water were the same identical hard to place on the card shade of light olive green. Which means that probably microplant life in the tank didn't alter teh KH. However ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels were ALL zero. It is possible that that last is because I do a 10% water change each night, but I'm used to seeing level aruond 5. Which suggests that microplant life may be active. I wonder if salt has built up in the water, raising the GH, even though I do a 10% water change each day and 50% water change once a week and the aquarium is tightly covered except for a little bit of opening around the filter pumps. But I don't find any support for the idea that the KH varies with the CO2 level in the tank. You can clearly see that I can immediately lower the ph of water to be added to the tank by bubbling air through the water, as the person at the city water quality control lab predicted. But the KH does not change in any way consistent with additonal CO2 affecting the level. Besides, isn't the carbonate hardness simply the capacity of the tank to react with acid, or something? It is carbonate, bicarbonate, adn a couple of other negative ions, all expressed in terms of molar units of carbonate thruogh complicated mathematical formulas. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 12:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Where did I say that? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? You're also saying that the carbonate hardness of my water changes with teh amount of dissolved carbon dioxide and the ph? OK, that's easy to check. Grin. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? HOB type filters cause a lot more surface agitation with the returning water fall so the increased surface agitation allows for more gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. While this is good for the fish, it may not be good for the plants if the CO2 levels get too low (you can check your CO2 levels here, using pH, KH and temperature.. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm> <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm> > > ). Warmer water will hold CO2 better as well so bumping the temp up a little for tropical fish and plants that can tolerate the warmer tropical temps will help with keeping CO2 levels up. Penguin HOB's or other Bio-Wheel HOB's add even higher levels of O2 back into the water because of the Bio-Wheel action. Bio-Wheels are good but the lower priced models tend to have issues with the Bio-Wheel not wanting to spin properly but this also usually means filter maintenance is needed (see my blog article on Filter Maintenance). If you are not seeing the kind of plant growth that you would like or expect, you could fill the tank up so that the water level is up to or over the edge of the water fall so the returning water does not splash at all and disrupts the surface as little as possible. I've also seen where people will take some filter floss padding (the bulk kind like here... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231> <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231> > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231> > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231& <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231& <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4231&> & > > & > > & ) and attach a folded up piece of this filter floss to the end of the waterfall so the filter floss goes into the water about an inch (using nylon ties, stainless steel screw/washer, etc... I've seen several different modifications over the years) so that the returning water kind of flows through the filter media directly into the tank and creates very little surface agitation. I haven't looked around for it much but it seems a darker colored filter floss would be more aesthetic for this purpose but the only darker colored filter floss materials that I've seen are usually the carbon impregnated king. There are black large pore sponge blocks that I have in my Rena Filstar canister filters that would also work for this type of water return. A closed filter system like a canister will hold the CO2 levels higher since the water going through a canister is not aerated at all unless the user has it set up for the returning water to create surface agitation. The HOB's have a lot of surface agitation inside of the filter reservoir which will release some of the CO2 as well. Your Aquaclear should have sponge blocks, etc., in the reservoir which will lessen the CO2 outgasing while the water is in the reservoir. Adding a sponge block to the Penguin will probably help a little also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of babsdvs Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Sorry, but I did not see an answer to Dora's question and was interested in hearing it. I have two tanks - one with a Penquin and one with an AquaClear - both tanks are well-planted and fertilized without CO2 injection. Barbara --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What would a Penguin filter specifically do to the CO2 levels? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:52 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > > Jerry, > > You took those questions way out of context. Those were diagnosis type > questions and I mentioned that with the amount of filtration on the tank, > the CO2 levels would likely be low but I still like to know what is going > on, that sometimes folks forget to mention. Maybe the user doesn't realize > that the filter system they use could have a dramatic effect on the CO2 > levels and then if they are dosing with fertilizers, it would only compound > the problems. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of CanAm > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > I hope not because it will be useless with penguin filter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red algae, anyone???? > > Is........Do you have CO2 injection? Are you adding fertilizers? > > . > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 080929-0, 09/29/2008 Tested on: 9/29/2008 > 3:52:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 4:39:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081004-0, 10/04/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:38:03 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

Well.. it's not bad if you were keeping hard water fish or if you had very soft water but for general tropical fish communities with average source water, it's not a good thing to have your substrate leaching into the tank water. What kind of substrate did you have? Was it pet store purchased or something you found? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:44 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over Also, I just tested my rock substrate and it bubbles with distilled viniger which is only 5% alkaline. I'm assuming this is bad and so I will start looking for new substrate. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> : Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:22:17 -0500Subject: [AquaticLife] Starting Over Okay, so the last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I have my Mollies in the 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does have a little high ph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I empty it and start over or do I just continue to check the stats and see if it fully cycles and then add a danio or somthing? I just do not know what exactly killed the fish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If I continue to cycle do I need to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive? or do I just let it filter and what about the lights? Do they need to stay the same or can they stay off? ThanksSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri, 3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionI think you would have been better off NOT using the Cycle product. Itsimply does not work as advertised and actually made the cycling conditionsworse for me when I tried it a few years back.Remember that the nitrifying bacteria in the filter media will only grow alarge enough colony to handle the bioload of the tank that it is on. If youonly have one fish, then the filter will only have enough N-bacteria tohandle the bioload of one fish. If you have ten fish, then the N-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger to handle the bioload of the ten fish.If the filter has been running on the 2.5G for several weeks and wasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it will have enough of the goodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10G tank. If you movedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added more fish, then youwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until the N-bacteria colonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload that more fish wouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies and then do a PWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also do PWC's on the2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and then just movethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel or decorations inthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning on a differentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colander or stocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your new substrate can grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge from my 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long til thistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media? I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lolSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. This is because you are into your first phase of cycling so theammoniaeating bacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony tohandle theammonia and is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The nextphase will bethe nitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitriteto nitratebut until then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.Ibelieve you are still running a high level of salt so that willpartiallyprotect the fish from nitrite poisoning but you need to get thenitritelevel down by doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, it will lower the nitrite. Remember to replacetheremoved salt. I'm not sure what your salt level is right now buthopefullyyou do know and can compute the correct level of salt to replacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute the salt in a container of tank water andslowlypour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the fish. DONOTpour this strong solution of salt into or near your filter intake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25% waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there's noguarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me ascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way.However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs the nitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppm isWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > >Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests in the mail today. here are todaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine 0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'm pretty sure the fishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. I am finally gettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use a filter from mysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, I will treatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned my lessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strong enough to deal with something likeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minor things like fin rot and to helpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25% PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the water qualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishes ownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could be aresult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales. Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeing poking out(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming loose and mayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could mean aninternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food that thegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making it into thegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing the IDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was since ithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a new parasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, which unfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean the entiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-like pasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of the waterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strong saltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfilter systemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetank againuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Then refillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank for fishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking around atotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things in thenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be ready tomakeyour new fishpurchases once the fishless cyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> toarticles referenced abovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a halfhour ago. It was swimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to bepushed by the currents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scaleswere poking out, but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxicteen) and its tummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for air andeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quit breathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish was pickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. They hadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body size buthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out the deadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scales weregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thought thehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven with themelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is only onehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 12:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking out like a pinecone but thegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you take pictures of the fishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of what you are seeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind of remember itbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads got prettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas of whatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks before throwingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it could simplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tank soitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish are notarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlid tankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves in anoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot about HITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the number oftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it's notjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't a festeringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting in thehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting larger breedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related to dietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which are theonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their lives inlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed proper dietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only make thewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are very BIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55G tanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lot ofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also why Irecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatis thebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as much proteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterquality issueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles I have inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learned aboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentand moredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsold andbased onthe best sciencereferences available at thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.ph phttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 2:20:23 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30913	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Hi Flohk (do you have another name we can call you by?), One possible reason why you may not be able to find a pic of this fish without showing color in its tail may well be the source of these pics, and how earnestly the author (if being published) endeavors depicting a pair (male & female) of any species he photographs. While the lack of coloration in the caudal fin may just be due to a variation within the species, I would not rule out the real possibility of this being a sex determining factor. Often too, photos of fish are taken to show them at their best coloration, and so males are frequently used to display the best intensities that these colors/patterns can reach, only as females of many species tend to be drabber. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30914	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Flonk, Species of the same Genus may school loosely intermittently, but don't expect them to remain shoaled as an ongoing behavior. Man-made variations (long-fin, albino, etc.) of the same species, including captive-bred color variations of that same species will behave as one species and will shoal (they will all be one species). Sub-species, or different original locations of a species will most often school together, the "tightness" of this behavior dependant upon how closely they are related, i.e., a fish location of a species found 1500 miles from another of the same species may not tend to school together as "permanently" (individuals may more often stray from the group, especially of the same location if several show this at one time) as a fish location found 150 miles apart. This schooling behavior in any related fish group, whether brother and sister, the same identical species or two extremely similar sub-species depends directly upon the size of their quarters. The larger their aquarium, the more closely they will tend to school -- with the opposite behavior being shown as the aquarium size decreases, even though subtly so. In a larger aquarium, it is also possible for two closely related Genus to schoal occasionally. The size of the tank will determine how closely a species will school -- for instance, once well established, a group of 6 Neons in a 10 gallon tank will see some of its individuals more often straying (roaming) on their own with their investigations away from the "pack." You would rarely (IF EVER) see any straying of an individual of a schoal in a 125 gallon tank. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30915	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Well actually some of mine don't have reddish tails at this moment. They all did, but some of them have faded out. Don't think it's stress and I'm feeding them food that allegedly is high in red coloring. Hikari micro wafers, hikari micro pellets, and OSI RTB red tiny bits (fine adn very fine). Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations, and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30916	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Hmm... in my tank, they don't school. Now, I ahve four pristellas, five flame tetras, six black phantom tetras, one little gold tetra that thinks its a danio, and ten danios, in a 20 gallon tank, so maybe tehy see no need to school, or the tank isn't big enough to really see it. LOL. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Thanks! The one fishbase.org seems, to me, to have a bit of red in its tail. But upon closer inspection of some of the google images...I can see how the amount of color could vary so perhaps mine is just quite light, or in this lighting looks completely silver, etc... Another question....What level of taxa is required to form a school? Example... Will species of the same genus school? Will variations of different species school? Example....will all gold and normal Pristella maxillaris school? ....Will all Pristella spp. school? I just want to figure out how refined I need to be in my conclusions before purchasing the fish. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:21 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I've never owned them but I just did a Google Image search for "pristella tetra" and I see quite a few color variations including some without orange colored tails and the tails look silvery colored. If the below link breaks, which is likely, just go to Google and type in "pristella tetra" (with quotes), then click the Images link. http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22 <http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22&btnG=Search+Images& um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2> &btnG=Search+Images&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2 This Fishbase.org profile (one of the best scientific profile databases ava ilable on the net) shows the Pristella with a silver tail. http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Frenc h%20Guiana <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren ch%20Guiana&Genus=Pristella&Species=maxillaris> &Genus=Pristella&Species=maxillaris Presuming that link will also break, go to http://www.fishbase.org and in the top field for Common Names, type in Pristella and click search. You'll see several profiles on them. Here's another Fishbase.org profile on the Pristella Tetra. http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10697 In the "More Information" section of Fishbase profiles, you can read more about the various links included in that section. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations,20and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:30:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 10:21:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·=C 2¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30917	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Orange? None of my pristellas have orange in their caudal fin bands, and I don't think I've ever seen any that color. There are other tetras with color bands on their fins, atleast some times. Lemon tetra, bleeding heart tetra, sometimes glowlight and head and tail light tetra, depending on what photos you look at. And apparently what fish. Some of those fish have traits that should distinguish them from pristella tetras, but they might have washed out, or the fish might be hybrids. (I think.) Lemon tetras in particular can be darned hard to tell from pristellas. Fish stores often have them in together. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Thanks! Yeah, both of them have a very distinct band of orange in the dorsal fin (its more distinct than the picture let's on), but do not have any coloration on either the tail or anal fin, or on their bodies in general. They both have the exact same coloration, but perhaps they are related. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:28 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I just took a look at your pics and I see yours do not have the color bands on the anal fins either. Here's another link off of Fishbase with four pictures of Pristella's and you'll see where one of them is just like yours with the silvery tail and no bands on the anal fin. I haven't found where this is a way to distinguish sex so it could just be a color variation due to inbreeding. http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.php?ID=10697 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations, and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 9:30:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 10:28:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30918	From: greychildren	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, flohk13@... wrote: > > > I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank > that I adopted. Several people think it may be a Pristella/X-Ray > Tetra...and I am inclined to agree. However, it lacks a red tail...its > tail is silver. It has been suggested that this is perhaps because the > fish are stressed in some way and their color has faded. > > > Before I get them some friends to school with, I am hoping to get > their colors back to "normal" if possible...so I can confirm that they > are indeed Pristella and I am buying them friends of the correct > species. > > > Therefore, I am looking for theories about either why they are stressed, why their color is off, etc.... > > > I have no memory of their tails ever being orange/red and I have had > them for 2 years. Of course that may not be worth anything since I am > not a particularly observant person. :p > > > Here are the water conditions: Temp- 80, pH- 7.2 to 7.3, KH 2, GH 10, NH3/NH4 - 0, NO2- 0, NO3- 10-20 > > > Tank Size- 20g > > > Tankmates: 2 Longfin Blackskirt Tetra, 3 Zebra Danios > > > My only current theories are: a) its not really a Pristella or b) > they are stressed out by danios and/or lack of school (there are only 2 > of them). > > > ? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > In my case i own several tetra species ( serpa, neon and head and tail, black neon) and not all school with each Oder ( the only one i seen school is the head and tail and the black neon,) so to my knowledge

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30919	From: laurelb2002	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

Hi Lenny - I totally get the conversation, and have strived for as little agitation as possible by using canister filters and no airstones. All planted tanks do great, and so do the fish. Here's the twist: I have a heavily planted nano tank with very little agitation and a CO2 bubble ladder, fueled by DIY solution. The plants are growing great and I don't have an algae problem. Here's the question: if I add oxygen to the tank by adding a bubble stone to the tank, then I'm reading that I will reduce the CO2 levels - how much? Will the airstone totally negate the bubble ladder? The only reason that I would add a bubble stone is because I want to have some C. Patzcuarensis, the Mexican dwarf crayfish, and they need lots of oxygen. I had a pair, and they seemed to do fine and grow for two months, but then died. All other water parameters and temp are fine. Maybe if I add liquid CO2 I can have both? What do you think? thanks, Laurel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30920	From: greychildren	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Serpa tetras

Do Serpa Tetras change color or get darker as they age?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30921	From: hank voss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, flohk13@... wrote: Flohk: Im getting into this thread a little late but here"s my point of view.To really ID them you need a more detailed pict.There are several tetras that look quite similiar to them.A maxillaris in good condition and a good strain will have yellow/gold-black-white (in that order)in their dorsal and anal fins.Ive never seen orange.Caudal fin can bee varying shades of red.The gold color can sometimes extend into the body also. The sexes look the same but he color is more intense in the male and he is slimmer bellied,he also has a hook onhis anal fish which wiil catch in a fine net.Their color can also fade in a tank that is too bright or light colored gravel/or no plants.They are not really a schooling fish but as Ray pointed out in a big tank they then tend to stay in a group. Regards Hank --------------------------------------------- > > Thanks! Yeah, both of them have a very distinct band of orange in the dorsal fin (its more distinct than the picture let's on), but do not have any coloration on either the tail or anal fin, or on their bodies in general. They both have the exact same coloration, but perhaps they are related. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:28 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress > > > > > > > > > > > I just took a look at your pics and I see yours do not have the color bands > on the anal fins either. Here's another link off of Fishbase with four > pictures of Pristella's and you'll see where one of them is just like yours > with the silvery tail and no bands on the anal fin. I haven't found where > this is a way to distinguish sex so it could just be a color variation due > to inbreeding. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30922	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Thanks for the info! Basically, I am just going to look at whether or not they can school....since I learned that they need to be in numbers of at least 6 to be comfortable because they are schooling fish. If they choose not to school, that will be fine, I just want to make sure I get the right species so that they are comfortable. -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 7:55 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Flonk, Species of the same Genus may school loosely intermittently, but don't expect them to remain shoaled as an ongoing behavior. Man-made variations (long-fin, albino, etc.) of the same species, including captive-bred color variations of that same species will behave as one species and will shoal (they will all be one species). Sub-species, or different original locations of a species will most often school together, the "tightness" of this behavior dependant upon how closely they are related, i.e., a fish location of a species found 1500 miles from another of the same species may not tend to school together as "permanently" (individuals may more often stray from the group, especially of the same location if several show this at one time) as a fish location found 150 miles apart. This schooling behavior in any related fish group, whether brother and sister, the same identical species or two extremely similar sub-speci es depends directly upon the size of their quarters. The larger their aquarium, the more closely they will tend to school -- with the opposite behavior being shown as the aquarium size decreases, even though subtly so. In a larger aquarium, it is also possible for two closely related Genus to schoal occasionally. The size of the tank will determine how closely a species will school -- for instance, once well established, a group of 6 Neons in a 10 gallon tank will see some of its individuals more often straying (roaming) on their own with their investigations away from the "pack." You would rarely (IF EVER) see any straying of an individual of a schoal in a 125 gallon tank. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30923	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Thanks for the information! Oh, sorry, and my name is Kara. :) -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 7:16 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hi Flohk (do you have another name we can call you by?), One possible reason why you may not be able to find a pic of this fish without showing color in its tail may well be the source of these pics, and how earnestly the author (if being published) endeavors depicting a pair (male & female) of any species he photographs. While the lack of coloration in the caudal fin may just be due to a variation within the species, I would not rule out the real possibility of this being a sex determining factor. Often too, photos of fish are taken to show them at their best coloration, and so males are frequently used to display the best intensities that these colors/patterns can reach, only as females of many species tend to be drabber. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

A couple of things could be happening. There are test kits to check for O2 levels but I'm not sure how accurate they are but I can't imagine these critters needing much higher O2 levels than any other fish or critter and most likely are tolerable of much worse O2 levels than your tank is experiencing but.... Crawfish, being mostly bottom dwellers (we call them mud-bugs down here in N'Awlins) are known to burrow into the sides of ponds/streams/bogs/swamps and during droughts, will actually go into a type of hibernation for long periods of time and I've read this same type of info on many other crawfish species but I haven't read much, if anything on the Mexican dwarf crayfish, so maybe this species is a lot different than it's cousins. Being curious, I wanted to read a little about them. I did find this profile http://www.petshrimp.com/articles/cpatzcuarensis.html and PetShrimp.com is usually a reliable source of info. Here's a forum thread (5 pages) where they are discussing them so you should find lots of into here. http://www.petshrimp.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=3 <http://www.petshrimp.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=741&p=27580> &t=741&p=27580 Something else that could be happening is not enough calcium in your water... you might want to add liquid calcium. Were you dosing calcium or feeding them calcium rich foods? Crawfish will molt on a regular basis while growing so they break out of their shell and for a few days are very vulnerable to predation while growing their new larger shell. If not enough calcium in the water or food, they may not be able to grow a proper new shell and I'm not sure how detrimental this would be but I imagine it wouldn't be a good thing and would be a major stressor to them since they know they are very vulnerable during these phases. You should have a cave for them to seek protection in when molting. The other thing that could be happening in your tank is that your pH is likely getting very low at night due to the higher CO2 levels and the plants not utilizing the CO2 when the lights are out. While these pH swings are tolerable by fish in nature and in our tanks, they may be more detrimental to critters that have shells... especially if there is not enough hardness in the water to maintain their shells. I realize you have a DIY CO2 injector on the tank so possibly putting an airstone on a timer to come on after lights out and then turn it off an hour or so before lights on so that the CO2 levels dissipate at night but then start to rise again prior to lights on. If there is a way to turn off your DIY CO2 injector at night, that might not be a bad idea either since it would save you money on materials. I would probably run them both for an hour or so before turn-off and turn-on so that there is no abrupt change in CO2/O2 levels but rather it would be tapered up and down as far as saturation levels. Wish I could help more but I've never kept them and the closest I've come to keeping them is my Cherry Shrimp tank and it's a low-tech set-up (no CO2 injection) with only a couple of easy to grow plants in the 10G tank. Here's a couple of more resources that I have in my favorites folder. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article40.html http://crayfish.byu.edu/ (very, very extensive site all about crawfish) http://www.shrimpcrabsandcrayfish.co.uk/Shrimp.htm?crayfish.htm~mainFrame http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp/74062-mexican-dwarf-orange-crayfish -cambarellus-patzcuarensis.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laurelb2002 Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 8:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Hi Lenny - I totally get the conversation, and have strived for as little agitation as possible by using canister filters and no airstones. All planted tanks do great, and so do the fish. Here's the twist: I have a heavily planted nano tank with very little agitation and a CO2 bubble ladder, fueled by DIY solution. The plants are growing great and I don't have an algae problem. Here's the question: if I add oxygen to the tank by adding a bubble stone to the tank, then I'm reading that I will reduce the CO2 levels - how much? Will the airstone totally negate the bubble ladder? The only reason that I would add a bubble stone is because I want to have some C. Patzcuarensis, the Mexican dwarf crayfish, and they need lots of oxygen. I had a pair, and they seemed to do fine and grow for two months, but then died. All other water parameters and temp are fine. Maybe if I add liquid CO2 I can have both? What do you think? thanks, Laurel _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 11:48:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30925	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

Its been a week and a few days since I've added salt and raised my temperature. I'm doing a complete flush of the tank since my ammonia and nitrites aren't changing. Is it safe to stop adding salt yet? Can I start to lower my aquarium temps yet?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

It's not so much as how long since you started the treatment as how long it has been since you've seen any evidence of the Ich. After you see the last evidence of Ich, you should run the salt/heat a few more days and then you can start to slowly lower the temp by 1F a day and start doing a series of PWC's to slowly remove the salt. What do you mean by a "complete flush of the tank"? That doesn't sound like the correct solution to an ammonia/nitrite issue. A series of PWC's is the better solution and you will be doing those as part of the removal of the salt with the Ich treatment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Its been a week and a few days since I've added salt and raised my temperature. I'm doing a complete flush of the tank since my ammonia and nitrites aren't changing. Is it safe to stop adding salt yet? Can I start to lower my aquarium temps yet? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 12:18:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30927	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria

My tank water is finally crystal clear. I don't think it was algae, but just cloudy water. I was wonderring if adding hydrogen peroxide is safe to add to the aquarium? I know it does a good job killing algae, but is also a disinfectant. Is there a safe and effective dosage that will kill algae and won't put my tank into a cycle?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30928	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone????

I guess teh only thing I clearly understand from this is that if I DID lose CO2 from my tank, the ph would rise? It did the time diatoms took over the tank. I didn't know if that was because they ate nitrogen waste or because they used carbon dioxide. I don't know if diatoms eat other nitrogen wastes besides nitrates - which completely disappeared from my tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "laurelb2002" <spykbender@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 8:46 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 and Penquin Filters - was Red algae, anyone???? Hi Lenny - I totally get the conversation, and have strived for as little agitation as possible by using canister filters and no airstones. All planted tanks do great, and so do the fish. Here's the twist: I have a heavily planted nano tank with very little agitation and a CO2 bubble ladder, fueled by DIY solution. The plants are growing great and I don't have an algae problem. Here's the question: if I add oxygen to the tank by adding a bubble stone to the tank, then I'm reading that I will reduce the CO2 levels - how much? Will the airstone totally negate the bubble ladder? The only reason that I would add a bubble stone is because I want to have some C. Patzcuarensis, the Mexican dwarf crayfish, and they need lots of oxygen. I had a pair, and they seemed to do fine and grow for two months, but then died. All other water parameters and temp are fine. Maybe if I add liquid CO2 I can have both? What do you think? thanks, Laurel ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30929	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Light colored gravel. There's my problem. But is the problem that tehy don't like light colored gravel, or that is washes out their coloring? What is the best colornig for them? (Not getting black.) The neutral earth tones I actually prefer would render teh fish invisible. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "hank voss" <aatetras@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:08 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, flohk13@... wrote: Flohk: Im getting into this thread a little late but here"s my point of view.To really ID them you need a more detailed pict.There are several tetras that look quite similiar to them.A maxillaris in good condition and a good strain will have yellow/gold-black-white (in that order)in their dorsal and anal fins.Ive never seen orange.Caudal fin can bee varying shades of red.The gold color can sometimes extend into the body also. The sexes look the same but he color is more intense in the male and he is slimmer bellied,he also has a hook onhis anal fish which wiil catch in a fine net.Their color can also fade in a tank that is too bright or light colored gravel/or no plants.They are not really a schooling fish but as Ray pointed out in a big tank they then tend to stay in a group. Regards Hank --------------------------------------------- > > Thanks! Yeah, both of them have a very distinct band of orange in the dorsal fin (its more distinct than the picture let's on), but do not have any coloration on either the tail or anal fin, or on their bodies in general. They both have the exact same coloration, but perhaps they are related. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:28 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress > > > > > > > > > > > I just took a look at your pics and I see yours do not have the color bands > on the anal fins either. Here's another link off of Fishbase with four > pictures of Pristella's and you'll see where one of them is just like yours > with the silvery tail and no bands on the anal fin. I haven't found where > this is a way to distinguish sex so it could just be a color variation due > to inbreeding. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30930	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: your opinion on this product

the product is called Waste Control http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2755149#prodTab1 Waste Control is a biological water conditioner that contains specific strains of bacteria chosen for their highly effective breakdown of solid organic waste. The result is a cleaner aquarium, providing improved conditions for prompt metabolism of invisible toxic ammonia and nitrite and less aquarium maintenance. Aquariums that feature large species of fish such as goldfish or cichlids; heavily stocked aquariums; planted or heavily decorated aquariums where debris removal is difficult will substantially benefit from Waste Control. * Reduces Aquarium Maintenance * Rapidly Reduces Organic Waste * Supports Healthy Aquarium Conditions

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30931	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Ozone and fish

I've seen ozone generators for aquariums. I know a few things about ozone. 1. I creates nitrates, kills molds and bacteria, reacts with water to create hydrogen peroxide, and destroys algae. Are they worth the money?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30932	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture

wrasse's have got to be one of God's cruel jokes. Some are really cool looking, and some are hideously oooooogly! It is a tossup between African Chichlid and wrasse to me

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30933	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

You posted 1 pwc an hour untill the nitrites are down. I actually have time to do that today. 25% over 4 hours is 20gallons, so you might aswell say a flush. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 1:18:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) It's not so much as how long since you started the treatment as how long it has been since you've seen any evidence of the Ich. After you see the last evidence of Ich, you should run the salt/heat a few more days and then you can start to slowly lower the temp by 1F a day and start doing a series of PWC's to slowly remove the salt. What do you mean by a "complete flush of the tank"? That doesn't sound like the correct solution to an ammonia/nitrite issue. A series of PWC's is the better solution and you will be doing those as part of the removal of the salt with the Ich treatment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Its been a week and a few days since I've added salt and raised my temperature. I'm doing a complete flush of the tank since my ammonia and nitrites aren't changing. Is it safe to stop adding salt yet? Can I start to lower my aquarium temps yet? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 12:18:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30934	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Help!!

Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30935	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria

Chris, As told to you countless times by me and others, there are NO chemical shortcuts to successful fish keeping. Your cloudy water, if not green, is likely a bacterial bloom relative to your tank still being new and still cycling. If your cloudy water is green, then it's an algae bloom related to your possibly high ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/phosphate levels so that means the recommended PWC's will bring them down. FREQUENT PARTIAL WATER CHANGES ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT "CHEMICAL" YOU CAN ADD TO YOUR TANK... GOOD OLD H20. You need to get your tank naturally cycled first and then see how the overall ecology of the tank will be working. If you get algae, then scrape it off or increase the numbers of plants you have, reduce the bioload, do more PWC's, etc.... DON'T CONSTANTLY BE THINKING CHEMICALS. GOD DOESN'T DO IT THAT WAY AND NEITHER SHOULD WE... unless you think you know more than Him? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria My tank water is finally crystal clear. I don't think it was algae, but just cloudy water. I was wonderring if adding hydrogen peroxide is safe to add to the aquarium? I know it does a good job killing algae, but is also a disinfectant. Is there a safe and effective dosage that will kill algae and won't put my tank into a cycle? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 1:11:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30936	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

So what are your step-by-step instructions? 25% an hour for how many hours? Do a higher % or less? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It's not so much as how long since you started the treatment as how long it > has been since you've seen any evidence of the Ich. After you see the last > evidence of Ich, you should run the salt/heat a few more days and then you > can start to slowly lower the temp by 1F a day and start doing a series of > PWC's to slowly remove the salt. > > What do you mean by a "complete flush of the tank"? That doesn't sound like > the correct solution to an ammonia/nitrite issue. A series of PWC's is the > better solution and you will be doing those as part of the removal of the > salt with the Ich treatment. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) > > Its been a week and a few days since I've added salt and raised my > temperature. I'm doing a complete flush of the tank since my ammonia and > nitrites aren't changing. Is it safe to stop adding salt yet? > Can I start to lower my aquarium temps yet? > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 > Tested on: 10/6/2008 12:18:54 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30937	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

Oh, trust me, there will be no rush. They are actually all going to be relocated soon to a 72g. Once the 72g is set up they will be getting some other tankmates as well. The 20g will become the quarantine tank, and there will be quite a few new fish that will have to pass through that before being added to the 72g....so I expect the process to take a fair bit of time. I'm sure there will be plenty of posts from me as I get my new tank setup, relocate everyone, and figure out the rest of the stock. :) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:51 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Sometimes fish from the same genus, if closely related, will school but you can't count on it. When they are from the same species, even with color variations, they will usually school... but sometimes the fish do not read the same things we do or they choose to not follow the rules. ;-) Now, there is still a chance of them experiencing some level of stress since they are not in a full school but do not rush out and get new fish without quarantining them first. You don't want to expose your new adoptees to any new pathogens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLi fe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 11:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Thanks! The one fishbase.org seems, to me, to have a bit of red in its tail. But upon closer inspection of some of the google images...I can see how the amount of color could vary so perhaps mine is just quite light, or in this lighting looks completely silver, etc... Another question....What level of taxa is required to form a school? Example... Will species of the same genus school? Will variations of different species school? Example....will all gold and normal Pristella maxillaris school? ....Will all Pristella spp. school? I just want to figure out how refined I need to be in my conclusions before purchasing the fish. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:21 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I've never owned them but I just did a Google Image search for "pristella tetra" and I see quite a few color variations including some without orange colored tails and the tails look silvery colored. If the below link breaks, which is likely, just go to Google and type in "pristella tetra" (with quotes), then click the Images link. http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22 <http://images.goo gle.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22> <http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22 <http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22&btnG=Search+Images& <http://images.google.com/images?q=%22pristella+tetra%22&btnG=Search+Images& > &btnG=Search+Images& > um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2> &btnG=Search+Images&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2 This Fishbase.org profile (one of the best scientific profile databases ava ilable on the net) shows the Pristella with a silver tail. http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Frenc <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren c> h%20Guiana <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren <http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?Country=Fren > > ch%20Guiana&Genus=Pristella&Species=maxillaris> &Genus=Pristella&Species=maxillaris Presuming that link will also break, go to http://www.fishbase.org <http://www.fishbase.org> and in the top field for Common Names, type in Pristella and click search. You'll see several profiles on them. Here's another Fishbase.org profile on the Pristella Tetra. http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10697 <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10697> In the "More Information" section of Fishbase profiles, you can read more about the various links included in that section. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: A quaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations,20and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/5/2008 11:51:39 PM avast! - copyrig ht (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30938	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: your opinion on this product

See my previous reply. THERE ARE SIMPLY NO CHEMICAL FIXES TO DOING PROPER AQUARIUM MAINTENANCE. THE BEST CHEMICAL YOU CAN ADD TO YOUR TANK IS H20... yep.. good ol' water! Add all the water you want (as long as it's dechlored first).... stay away from the rest of the crappy chemicals out there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: your opinion on this product the product is called Waste Control http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2755149#prodTab1 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2755149#prodTab1> Waste Control is a biological water conditioner that contains specific strains of bacteria chosen for their highly effective breakdown of solid organic waste. The result is a cleaner aquarium, providing improved conditions for prompt metabolism of invisible toxic ammonia and nitrite and less aquarium maintenance. Aquariums that feature large species of fish such as goldfish or cichlids; heavily stocked aquariums; planted or heavily decorated aquariums where debris removal is difficult will substantially benefit from Waste Control. * Reduces Aquarium Maintenance * Rapidly Reduces Organic Waste * Supports Healthy Aquarium Conditions ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 1:05:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 1:14:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30939	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank

Now thats a good idea.. But how do u find one's ISP? On 10/5/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Well, Lenny can contact Yahoo about this Jerry guy, but Jerry guy seems > sufficiently technologically competent to get around Yahoo. > > You could always write his ISP, assuming he doesn't simply use teh public > library. You could even contact them. Their terminals aren't to be used > for abuse! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@... <KWELYROOS71%40GMAIL.COM>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all > bacteria in the tank > > Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u know > more about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the shark > scientists i personally know! U are way better than that Jerry guy.. what a > jerk! > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie <MargiePhelps@...<MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > >wrote: > > > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > > -- > > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > > w.j.scott@... <w.j.scott%40verizon.net> <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: > -------------- > > > > > Hey Guy's > > > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw > stones > > if > > > you live in a glass house. > > > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be polite > > with > > > our on line comments. No > > > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny > > will > > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not spoon, > > > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric system, > > > live > > > > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, it's > you > > who > > > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make calculation, > of > > > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell me > > > you > > > > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > > to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40live.com> > on aol kwelyroos1971 > google talk kwelyroos71 > ICQ 477496656 > dark.moon.crafts@... <dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> > www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering > www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak > www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30940	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria

Hydrogen Peroxide is a natural chemical found in abundance in nature. It is found in rain water, and is replicated in living creatures to help the immune system and self detox. Fish produce it inside their bodies aswell. We humans produce it aswell. Its as natural as fish producing ammonia and the bacteria converting it to nitrates in the n cycle. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 2:11:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria Chris, As told to you countless times by me and others, there are NO chemical shortcuts to successful fish keeping. Your cloudy water, if not green, is likely a bacterial bloom relative to your tank still being new and still cycling. If your cloudy water is green, then it's an algae bloom related to your possibly high ammonia/nitrite/ nitrate/phosphat e levels so that means the recommended PWC's will bring them down. FREQUENT PARTIAL WATER CHANGES ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT "CHEMICAL" YOU CAN ADD TO YOUR TANK... GOOD OLD H20. You need to get your tank naturally cycled first and then see how the overall ecology of the tank will be working.. If you get algae, then scrape it off or increase the numbers of plants you have, reduce the bioload, do more PWC's, etc.... DON'T CONSTANTLY BE THINKING CHEMICALS. GOD DOESN'T DO IT THAT WAY AND NEITHER SHOULD WE... unless you think you know more than Him? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria My tank water is finally crystal clear. I don't think it was algae, but just cloudy water. I was wonderring if adding hydrogen peroxide is safe to add to the aquarium? I know it does a good job killing algae, but is also a disinfectant. Is there a safe and effective dosage that will kill algae and won't put my tank into a cycle? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 1:11:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30941	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

Hello, stop buying fish .. 12 goldfish in a 45 gallon way too many. Settle down, relax. Let the tank run the course for a month, just do not add any more fish. There can be a number of things causing their death. Did you sterilize the gravel before you set up the tank? Did you sterilize the tank? What is the water conditions like? Have you tested? Could be many factors, was the water treated or conditioned before the fish were added? Are you on city water? Well water? Really need more information. Did you clean and sterilize the filter? Are you using clean/fresh filter media? Have the water checked. Do it yourself, or have a fish store (NOT a general pet store) check it. Did you slowly add tank water to the bag before releasing them? Did you put the bag water in your tank when you released them? See, there are lots of questions.. Please give us specifics photos help too. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 1:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30942	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

I'm gonna do 25%/hr until the nitrites are down. Once the salt is purged from the system, I'm gonna add zeolite to the filter bag when I start noticing the nitrates are up if the tank isn't fully cycled yet by that time. I haven't seen ich for a week. I'm sure it is safe to not worry about it anymore and I can discontinue the salt and start reducing my water temperature.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30943	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

It was pea pebble that I bought from walmart in the home and garden section. I figured it would be a cheap alternative. Bad idea. I guess I am starting over with the big tank. I have begun emptying it and will buy new gravel tonight. I also have a few plants that I plan on adding in the big tank once they spread out, any idea of a good substrate for them that I could purchase from walmart? I'm not close to an aquarium store and I would really like to get this reset soon. Thanks Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 02:20:23 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over Well.. it's not bad if you were keeping hard water fish or if you had verysoft water but for general tropical fish communities with average sourcewater, it's not a good thing to have your substrate leaching into the tankwater.What kind of substrate did you have? Was it pet store purchased orsomething you found?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:44 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting OverAlso, I just tested my rock substrate and it bubbles with distilled vinigerwhich is only 5% alkaline. I'm assuming this is bad and so I will startlooking for new substrate."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : cheese911@...<mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> : Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:22:17-0500Subject: [AquaticLife] Starting OverOkay, so the last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I have myMollies in the 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does have alittle high ph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I empty itand start over or do I just continue to check the stats and see if it fullycycles and then add a danio or somthing? I just do not know what exactlykilled the fish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If I continue tocycle do I need to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive? or do I justlet it filter and what about the lights? Do they need to stay the same orcan they stay off? ThanksSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdeal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find thestrength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri, 3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionI think you would have been better off NOTusing the Cycle product. Itsimply does not work as advertised and actuallymade the cycling conditionsworse for me when I tried it a few yearsback.Remember that the nitrifying bacteria in the filter media will onlygrow alarge enough colony to handle the bioload of the tank that it is on.If youonly have one fish, then the filter will only have enough N-bacteriatohandle the bioload of one fish. If you have ten fish, then theN-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger to handle the bioload of the tenfish.If the filter has been running on the 2.5G for several weeks andwasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it will have enough of thegoodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10G tank. If youmovedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added more fish, thenyouwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until the N-bacteriacolonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload that more fishwouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies and then do aPWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also do PWC's onthe2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and then justmovethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel or decorationsinthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning on adifferentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colander orstocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your new substratecan grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] CyclingQuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge frommy 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long tilthistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media?I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lolSarah"Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes.Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have runscaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu,2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. This isbecause you are into your first phase of cycling so theammoniaeatingbacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony tohandle theammoniaand is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The nextphase will bethenitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitriteto nitratebutuntil then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.Ibelieve you arestill running a high level of salt so that willpartiallyprotect the fishfrom nitrite poisoning but you need to get thenitritelevel down by doing aseries of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, itwill lower the nitrite. Remember to replacetheremoved salt. I'm not surewhat your salt level is right now buthopefullyyou do know and can computethe correct level of salt to replacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute thesalt in a container of tank water andslowlypour it back into the tank,avoiding direct contact with the fish. DONOTpour this strong solution ofsalt into or near your filter intake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced abovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25%waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there'snoguarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave meascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe otherway.However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs thenitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppmisWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > >>Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests inthe mail today. here are todaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'mpretty sure the fishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. Iam finally gettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use afilter from mysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, Iwill treatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned mylessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but youjust dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be,Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always findthestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strong enough to deal with somethinglikeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minor things like fin rot and tohelpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25%PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the waterqualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishesownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could bearesult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales.Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeing pokingout(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming loose andmayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could meananinternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food thatthegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making it intothegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing theIDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was sinceithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a newparasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, whichunfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean theentiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-likepasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of thewaterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strongsaltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfiltersystemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetankagainuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Thenrefillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank forfishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking aroundatotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things inthenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be readytomakeyour new fishpurchases once the fishlesscyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> toarticles referenced abovelistedon theright side under Archives- Year,Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 2008 12:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a halfhour ago. It wasswimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to bepushed by thecurrents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scaleswere poking out,but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxicteen) and itstummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for airandeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quitbreathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish waspickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. Theyhadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body sizebuthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out thedeadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scalesweregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thoughtthehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven withthemelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is onlyonehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have runscaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200812:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking outlike a pinecone but thegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you takepictures of the fishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of whatyou are seeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind ofremember itbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads gotprettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas ofwhatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks beforethrowingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it couldsimplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tanksoitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish arenotarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlidtankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves inanoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot aboutHITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the numberoftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it'snotjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't afesteringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting inthehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting largerbreedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related todietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which aretheonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their livesinlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed properdietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only makethewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are veryBIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55Gtanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lotofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also whyIrecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatisthebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as muchproteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterqualityissueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles Ihave inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learnedaboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentandmoredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsoldandbased onthe best sciencereferences available atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____<thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 2:20:23 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30944	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

first 25% water change done. No salt added. Will test and post readings in 1 hour. ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris <crjm28@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 3:34:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) I'm gonna do 25%/hr until the nitrites are down. Once the salt is purged from the system, I'm gonna add zeolite to the filter bag when I start noticing the nitrates are up if the tank isn't fully cycled yet by that time. I haven't seen ich for a week. I'm sure it is safe to not worry about it anymore and I can discontinue the salt and start reducing my water temperature. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30945	From: hank voss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Serpa tetras

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: If your talking about serpaes 1 in. or less yes they do darken up as they mature. Hank =============================================== > > Do Serpa Tetras change color or get darker as they age? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30946	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

So, would viniger work best to disinfect? That way I dont have to freak about not getting all the bleach out? Also, my GH and KH are always about the same. Either they are both 8 or gh is 8 kh is 9 but usually the same so i dont even test for KH most of the time. is this just a coinisdense or should I be checking them seperatly? I've messed with hotmail but cannot figure out why its doing this. I can sometimes get it to unscramble though :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 02:08:02 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over I would clean and disinfect the entire 35G system since there was obviouslysome kind of very nasty pathogen in it that wiped out your fish ratherquickly.A pH of 8 is fine.. especially for livebearers like mollies but also formost other common tropical fish as long as you slowly acclimate any newlypurchased fish to your water. Also remember that the pH of a tank willALWAYS come down in a tank that does not have something in it raising thepH. It's better to start off with a little higher pH so that the naturaltank ecology will not cause the pH to crash. Of course, knowing the KHlevels would tell us more about how stable your pH will remain. You mentionyour hardness being a little high but is that KH (Carbonate Hardness) or GH(German Hardness)? How long has the 10G been running? Didn't you recently clone a 2.5G intothe 10G? In either case, if the filter was fully cycled on the 2.5G, whichis now in the 10G, then after you clean the 35G, you can clone the 10G intothe 35G by moving the filter, gravel, decorations, etc.. You shouldn't haveany kind of cycling issue at all since you will have so much water volume todilute the little bioload of the two mollies.Then you can use the 10G and 2.5G to quarantine any new fish you buy.On a side note... did you ever fool with your settings in Hotmail or youremail client to figure out what is stripping all of the formatting out ofmessages that you reply to? I don't even try to review much of your threadsas they look like discombobulated mumbo-jumbo. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:22 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Starting OverOkay, so the last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I have myMollies in the 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does have alittle high ph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I empty itand start over or do I just continue to check the stats and see if it fullycycles and then add a danio or somthing? I just do not know what exactlykilled the fish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If I continue tocycle do I need to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive? or do I justlet it filter and what about the lights? Do they need to stay the same orcan they stay off? ThanksSarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdeal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find thestrength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri, 3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionI think you would have been better off NOT using the Cycle product. Itsimplydoes not work as advertised and actually made the cycling conditionsworsefor me when I tried it a few years back.Remember that the nitrifyingbacteria in the filter media will only grow alarge enough colony to handlethe bioload of the tank that it is on. If youonly have one fish, then thefilter will only have enough N-bacteria tohandle the bioload of one fish. Ifyou have ten fish, then the N-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger tohandle the bioload of the ten fish.If the filter has been running on the2.5G for several weeks and wasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it willhave enough of the goodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10Gtank. If you movedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added morefish, then youwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until theN-bacteria colonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload thatmore fish wouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies andthen do a PWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also doPWC's on the2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and thenjust movethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel ordecorations inthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning on adifferentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colander orstocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your new substratecan grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] CyclingQuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge frommy 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long tilthistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media?I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lolSarah"Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes.Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have runscaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu,2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. This isbecause you are into your first phase of cycling so theammoniaeatingbacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony tohandle theammoniaand is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The nextphase will bethenitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitriteto nitratebutuntil then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.Ibelieve you arestill running a high level of salt so that willpartiallyprotect the fishfrom nitrite poisoning but you need to get thenitritelevel down by doing aseries of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, itwill lower the nitrite. Remember to replacetheremoved salt. I'm not surewhat your salt level is right now buthopefullyyou do know and can computethe correct level of salt to replacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute thesalt in a container of tank water andslowlypour it back into the tank,avoiding direct contact with the fish. DONOTpour this strong solution ofsalt into or near your filter intake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced abovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25%waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there'snoguarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave meascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe otherway.However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs thenitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppmisWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > >>Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests inthe mail today. here are todaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'mpretty sure the fishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. Iam finally gettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use afilter from mysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, Iwill treatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned mylessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but youjust dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be,Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always findthestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strong enough to deal with somethinglikeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minor things like fin rot and tohelpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25%PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the waterqualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishesownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could bearesult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales.Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeing pokingout(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming loose andmayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could meananinternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food thatthegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making it intothegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing theIDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was sinceithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a newparasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, whichunfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean theentiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-likepasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of thewaterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strongsaltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfiltersystemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetankagainuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Thenrefillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank forfishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking aroundatotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things inthenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be readytomakeyour new fishpurchases once the fishlesscyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referencedabovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 2008 12:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a halfhour ago. It wasswimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to bepushed by thecurrents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scaleswere poking out,but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxicteen) and itstummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for airandeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quitbreathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish waspickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. Theyhadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body sizebuthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out thedeadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scalesweregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thoughtthehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven withthemelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is onlyonehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have runscaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200812:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking outlike a pinecone but thegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you takepictures of the fishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of whatyou are seeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind ofremember itbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads gotprettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas ofwhatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks beforethrowingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it couldsimplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tanksoitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish arenotarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlidtankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves inanoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot aboutHITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the numberoftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it'snotjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't afesteringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting inthehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting largerbreedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related todietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which aretheonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their livesinlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed properdietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only makethewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are veryBIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55Gtanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lotofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also whyIrecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatisthebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as muchproteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterqualityissueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles Ihave inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learnedaboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentandmoredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsoldandbased onthe best sciencereferences available atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____<thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 2:08:02 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30947	From: hank voss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: Dora: Light colored gravel tends to wash out the color on most fish especially if you have strong light on the tank.Plants help neutralize this problem.I have mine over brown gravel(looks more like a river bottom)and few plants. Hank =========================================== > Light colored gravel. There's my problem. But is the problem that tehy > don't like light colored gravel, or that is washes out their coloring? > > What is the best colornig for them? (Not getting black.) The neutral > earth tones I actually prefer would render teh fish invisible. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "hank voss" <aatetras@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:08 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, flohk13@ wrote: > > Flohk: > Im getting into this thread a little late but here"s my point of > view.To really ID them you need a more detailed pict.There are > several tetras that look quite similiar to them.A maxillaris in good > condition and a good strain will have yellow/gold-black-white (in > that order)in their dorsal and anal fins.Ive never seen orange.Caudal > fin can bee varying shades of red.The gold color can sometimes extend > into the body also. > The sexes look the same but he color is more intense in the > male and he is slimmer bellied,he also has a hook onhis anal fish > which wiil catch in a fine net.Their color can also fade in a tank > that is too bright or light colored gravel/or no plants.They are not > really a schooling fish but as Ray pointed out in a big tank they > then tend to stay in a group. > > Regards Hank > --------------------------------------------- > > > > Thanks! Yeah, both of them have a very distinct band of orange in > the dorsal fin (its more distinct than the picture let's on), but do > not have any coloration on either the tail or anal fin, or on their > bodies in general. They both have the exact same coloration, but > perhaps they are related. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:28 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just took a look at your pics and I see yours do not have the > color bands > > on the anal fins either. Here's another link off of Fishbase with > four > > pictures of Pristella's and you'll see where one of them is just > like yours > > with the silvery tail and no bands on the anal fin. I haven't > found where > > this is a way to distinguish sex so it could just be a color > variation due > > to inbreeding. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30948	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

I believe I'm following instructions here do 25% water changes per hour until nitrites are below 1 ppm I can stop adding salt now? lower my tank by 1 degree a day What do you mean by slowly remove salt? Does that mean I should reduce the salt balance from 1 tbsp per 5 gallons to zero in the same way I lower water temp? ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris <crjm28@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 3:34:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) I'm gonna do 25%/hr until the nitrites are down. Once the salt is purged from the system, I'm gonna add zeolite to the filter bag when I start noticing the nitrates are up if the tank isn't fully cycled yet by that time. I haven't seen ich for a week. I'm sure it is safe to not worry about it anymore and I can discontinue the salt and start reducing my water temperature. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30949	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

I'm not sure you should be doing 25% PWC's yet unless you can make your change water the same temp as your tank water. I would get the temp down over the next couple of days and then start doing the 25% PWC's. You might be able to start doing 10% PWC's depending on how cool your tap water is right now. For example, if your tank is at 85F and your tap is at 75F, then even a 10% change would immediately lower it by 1F which is about the most you want to do with stressed fish. In a perfectly healthy and thriving tank, then a bigger temp change would be more easily handled by the fish but you don't need to be throwing more stressors at your fish right now. They have enough to deal with right now. If you can match your tap water temp to your tank water temp within 2-3F, with an extra heater in a 5G bucket, then you could do the 25% PWC's. Another thing to consider is your temp, pH and ammonia level. You don't want to raise your pH when doing PWC's right now since the higher temps and a higher pH makes the ammonia more toxic. You really just have a lot going on because you tried to rush nature... you know the old saying.. "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature!" (from an old margarine commercial.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) I believe I'm following instructions here do 25% water changes per hour until nitrites are below 1 ppm I can stop adding salt now? lower my tank by 1 degree a day What do you mean by slowly remove salt? Does that mean I should reduce the salt balance from 1 tbsp per 5 gallons to zero in the same way I lower water temp? ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 3:34:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) I'm gonna do 25%/hr until the nitrites are down. Once the salt is purged from the system, I'm gonna add zeolite to the filter bag when I start noticing the nitrates are up if the tank isn't fully cycled yet by that time. I haven't seen ich for a week. I'm sure it is safe to not worry about it anymore and I can discontinue the salt and start reducing my water temperature. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:06:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ozone and fish

Once again... there's no quick fixes! You need to learn how to crawl before you start trying to walk and run. Just stick to the basics for a few months to give you and your fish a chance and then maybe you can start looking at other options if the need arises... but if you do things right, you'll less likely have any of the problems you are worried about. Besides.. I thought you were all into doing things naturally and wanting to do the aquaponics thing, etc.? At least, that's what some of your earlier posts implied when you first joined not very long ago. What the heck happened to "all natural". Now, every other post is about some chemical or contraption. You need to get all that crap out of your head. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ozone and fish I've seen ozone generators for aquariums. I know a few things about ozone. 1. I creates nitrates, kills molds and bacteria, reacts with water to create hydrogen peroxide, and destroys algae. Are they worth the money? ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 1:14:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:10:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30951	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank

If I was actually going to worry about Jerry/Gerard, I could take some of his earlier emails before he started spoofing my email address and I'm pretty sure he used a private ISP as his email provider so it would be simple. If that wasn't his ISP, then the header information from the email would provide me with his IP number which could then be traced to his ISP. I'm really not that worried about him... especially since I don't have a pet rabbit that I have to worry about him stewing (ala Fatal Attraction.. lol). Troll's like him are simply one of life's annoyances.. kind of like people on sidewalks when I'm in a hurry to get through a traffic light. LOL (One of my bumper stickers.. "If you don't like the way I drive, stay off the sidewalk!".. LOL) I guess he's going to try and reply to this message since I'm sure he's still monitoring messages by reading them on the group's website. If he does reply somehow, then I might have to reply with some of the good stuff I've learned about him. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank Now thats a good idea.. But how do u find one's ISP? On 10/5/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > Well, Lenny can contact Yahoo about this Jerry guy, but Jerry guy > seems sufficiently technologically competent to get around Yahoo. > > You could always write his ISP, assuming he doesn't simply use teh > public library. You could even contact them. Their terminals aren't to > be used for abuse! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@... > <mailto:KWELYROOS71%40GMAIL.COM> <KWELYROOS71%40GMAIL.COM>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all > bacteria in the tank > > Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u > know more about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the > shark scientists i personally know! U are way better than that Jerry > guy.. what a jerk! > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie <MargiePhelps@... > <mailto:MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > <MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > >wrote: > > > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > > -- > > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > > w.j.scott@... <mailto:w.j.scott%40verizon.net> <w.j.scott%40verizon.net> <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: > -------------- > > > > > Hey Guy's > > > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw > stones > > if > > > you live in a glass house. > > > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be > > > polite > > with > > > our on line comments. No > > > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , > > > Lenny > > will > > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not > > > spoon, > > > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric > > > system, live > > > > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, > > > it's > you > > who > > > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make > > > calculation, > of > > > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell > > > me you > > > > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important > > to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> > <kwelyroos71%40live.com> on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 > ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... > <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> <dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> > kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> > <kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> kwelyroos71@... > <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> <kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> > www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering > www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak > www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , > .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> kwelyroos71@... <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 1:35:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:17:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30952	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria

OK.. then fill your tank with HP and throw some fish in there and see what happens. They'll all DIE immediately. There's lots of things that are found in abundance in nature.. that doesn't mean they are all good for us. Go roll around in some poison ivy... it's natural, right? BTW.. the Calamine lotion will be nearby the HP in the drug store aisle. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria Hydrogen Peroxide is a natural chemical found in abundance in nature. It is found in rain water, and is replicated in living creatures to help the immune system and self detox. Fish produce it inside their bodies aswell. We humans produce it aswell. Its as natural as fish producing ammonia and the bacteria converting it to nitrates in the n cycle. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 2:11:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria Chris, As told to you countless times by me and others, there are NO chemical shortcuts to successful fish keeping. Your cloudy water, if not green, is likely a bacterial bloom relative to your tank still being new and still cycling. If your cloudy water is green, then it's an algae bloom related to your possibly high ammonia/nitrite/ nitrate/phosphat e levels so that means the recommended PWC's will bring them down. FREQUENT PARTIAL WATER CHANGES ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT "CHEMICAL" YOU CAN ADD TO YOUR TANK... GOOD OLD H20. You need to get your tank naturally cycled first and then see how the overall ecology of the tank will be working.. If you get algae, then scrape it off or increase the numbers of plants you have, reduce the bioload, do more PWC's, etc.... DON'T CONSTANTLY BE THINKING CHEMICALS. GOD DOESN'T DO IT THAT WAY AND NEITHER SHOULD WE... unless you think you know more than Him? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria My tank water is finally crystal clear. I don't think it was algae, but just cloudy water. I was wonderring if adding hydrogen peroxide is safe to add to the aquarium? I know it does a good job killing algae, but is also a disinfectant. Is there a safe and effective dosage that will kill algae and won't put my tank into a cycle? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:25:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30953	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

Well, normally, pea gravel is fine but you must have gotten some el cheapo imitation that had some broken up limestone mixed in. Check with Wal-Mart to see if they have normal pea gravel and rinse it off good, let some of it dry and test it again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:55 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over It was pea pebble that I bought from walmart in the home and garden section. I figured it would be a cheap alternative. Bad idea. I guess I am starting over with the big tank. I have begun emptying it and will buy new gravel tonight. I also have a few plants that I plan on adding in the big tank once they spread out, any idea of a good substrate for them that I could purchase from walmart? I'm not close to an aquarium store and I would really like to get this reset soon. Thanks Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 6 Oct 2008 02:20:23 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over Well.. it's not bad if you were keeping hard water fish or if you had verysoft water but for general tropical fish communities with average sourcewater, it's not a good thing to have your substrate leaching into the tankwater.What kind of substrate did you have? Was it pet store purchased orsomething you found?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:44 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Starting OverAlso, I just tested my rock substrate and it bubbles with distilled vinigerwhich is only 5% alkaline. I'm assuming this is bad and so I will startlooking for new substrate."With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> : Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:22:17-0500Subject: [AquaticLife] Starting OverOkay, so the last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I have myMollies in the 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does have alittle high ph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I empty itand start over or do I just continue to check the stats and see if it fullycycles and then add a danio or somthing? I just do not know what exactlykilled the fish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If I continue tocycle do I need to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive? or do I justlet it filter and what about the lights? Do they need to stay the same orcan they stay off? ThanksSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdeal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find thestrength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri, 3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionI think you would have been better off NOTusing the Cycle product. Itsimply does not work as advertised and actuallymade the cycling conditionsworse for me when I tried it a few yearsback.Remember that the nitrifying bacteria in the filter media will onlygrow alarge enough colony to handle the bioload of the tank that it is on.If youonly have one fish, then the filter will only have enough N-bacteriatohandle the bioload of one fish. If you have ten fish, then theN-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger to handle the bioload of the tenfish.If the filter has been running on the 2.5G for several weeks andwasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it will have enough of thegoodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10G tank. If youmovedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added more fish, thenyouwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until the N-bacteriacolonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload that more fishwouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies and then do aPWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also do PWC's onthe2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and then justmovethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel or decorationsinthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning on adifferentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colander orstocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your new substratecan grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] CyclingQuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge frommy 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long tilthistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media?I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lolSarah"Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes.Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have runscaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu,2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. This isbecause you are into your first phase of cycling so theammoniaeatingbacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony tohandle theammoniaand is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The nextphase will bethenitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitriteto nitratebutuntil then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.Ibelieve you arestill running a high level of salt so that willpartiallyprotect the fishfrom nitrite poisoning but you need to get thenitritelevel down by doing aseries of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, itwill lower the nitrite. Remember to replacetheremoved salt. I'm not surewhat your salt level is right now buthopefullyyou do know and can computethe correct level of salt to replacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute thesalt in a container of tank water andslowlypour it back into the tank,avoiding direct contact with the fish. DONOTpour this strong solution ofsalt into or near your filter intake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced abovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25%waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there'snoguarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave meascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe otherway.However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs thenitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppmisWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > > >>Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests inthe mail today. here are todaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'mpretty sure the fishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. Iam finally gettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use afilter from mysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, Iwill treatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned mylessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but youjust dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be,Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always findthestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strong enough to deal with somethinglikeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minor things like fin rot and tohelpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25%PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the waterqualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishesownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could bearesult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales.Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeing pokingout(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming loose andmayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could meananinternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food thatthegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making it intothegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing theIDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was sinceithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a newparasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, whichunfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean theentiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-likepasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of thewaterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strongsaltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfiltersystemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetankagainuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Thenrefillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank forfishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking aroundatotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things inthenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be readytomakeyour new fishpurchases once the fishlesscyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > toarticles referenced abovelistedon theright side under Archives- Year,Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 2008 12:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticli fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a halfhour ago. It wasswimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to bepushed by thecurrents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scaleswere poking out,but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxicteen) and itstummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for airandeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quitbreathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish waspickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. Theyhadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body sizebuthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out thedeadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scalesweregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thoughtthehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven withthemelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is onlyonehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have runscaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200812:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking outlike a pinecone but thegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you takepictures of the fishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of whatyou are seeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind ofremember itbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads gotprettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas ofwhatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks beforethrowingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it couldsimplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tanksoitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish arenotarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlidtankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves inanoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot aboutHITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the numberoftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it'snotjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't afesteringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting inthehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting largerbreedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related todietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which aretheonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their livesinlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed properdietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only makethewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are veryBIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55Gtanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lotofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also whyIrecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatisthebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as muchproteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterqualityissueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles Ihave inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learnedaboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentandmoredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsoldandbased onthe best sciencereferences available atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus. phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus .phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 2:20:23 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 3:28:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:28:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30954	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

I'm just gonna go with aquarium gravel. I have a black background so I figure a blue would look nice and it will brighten up the tank as well. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 16:28:47 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over Well, normally, pea gravel is fine but you must have gotten some el cheapoimitation that had some broken up limestone mixed in. Check with Wal-Martto see if they have normal pea gravel and rinse it off good, let some of itdry and test it again.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:55 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting OverIt was pea pebble that I bought from walmart in the home and garden section.I figured it would be a cheap alternative. Bad idea. I guess I am startingover with the big tank. I have begun emptying it and will buy new graveltonight. I also have a few plants that I plan on adding in the big tank oncethey spread out, any idea of a good substrate for them that I could purchasefrom walmart? I'm not close to an aquarium store and I would really like toget this reset soon.ThanksSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 6 Oct 2008 02:20:23 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Starting OverWell.. it's not bad if you were keeping hard water fish or if you hadverysoft water but for general tropical fish communities with averagesourcewater, it's not a good thing to have your substrate leaching into thetankwater.What kind of substrate did you have? Was it pet store purchasedorsomething you found?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:44 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] StartingOverAlso, I just tested my rock substrate and it bubbles with distilledvinigerwhich is only 5% alkaline. I'm assuming this is bad and so I willstartlooking for new substrate."With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdeal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : cheese911@...<mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> :Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:22:17-0500Subject: [AquaticLife] Starting OverOkay, sothe last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I have myMollies inthe 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does have alittle highph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I empty itand startover or do I just continue to check the stats and see if it fullycycles andthen add a danio or somthing? I just do not know what exactlykilled thefish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If I continue tocycle do Ineed to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive? or do I justlet itfilter and what about the lights? Do they need to stay the same orcan theystay off? ThanksSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdeal withlife as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobablywould have run scared the other way. However, you always find thestrength tomeet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri,3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionI thinkyou would have been better off NOTusing the Cycle product. Itsimply does notwork as advertised and actuallymade the cycling conditionsworse for me whenI tried it a few yearsback.Remember that the nitrifying bacteria in thefilter media will onlygrow alarge enough colony to handle the bioload of thetank that it is on.If youonly have one fish, then the filter will only haveenough N-bacteriatohandle the bioload of one fish. If you have ten fish,then theN-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger to handle the bioload ofthe tenfish.If the filter has been running on the 2.5G for several weeksandwasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it will have enough ofthegoodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10G tank. Ifyoumovedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added more fish,thenyouwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until theN-bacteriacolonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload thatmore fishwouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies andthen do aPWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also doPWC's onthe2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and thenjustmovethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel ordecorationsinthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning onadifferentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colanderorstocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your newsubstratecan grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday,October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]CyclingQuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridgefrommy 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How longtilthistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filtermedia?I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank!lolSarah"Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes.Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverunscaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. Thisisbecause you are into your first phase of cycling sotheammoniaeatingbacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colonytohandle theammoniaand is now converting it quickly to nitrite. Thenextphase will bethenitrite eating bacteria growing and converting thenitriteto nitratebutuntil then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitritelevels.Ibelieve you arestill running a high level of salt so thatwillpartiallyprotect the fishfrom nitrite poisoning but you need to getthenitritelevel down by doing aseries of 25% PWC's, one every hour ortwo.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, itwill lower the nitrite. Remember toreplacetheremoved salt. I'm not surewhat your salt level is right nowbuthopefullyyou do know and can computethe correct level of salt toreplacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute thesalt in a container of tankwater andslowlypour it back into the tank,avoiding direct contact with thefish. DONOTpour this strong solution ofsalt into or near your filterintake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referencedabovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6couple days ago so I did the 25%waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and nowits way up."With kids there'snoguarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave meascript of what was to be, I probably would have runscaredthe otherway.However, you always find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] water statsIs thenitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may knowby now, 5ppmisWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > >>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > >>>Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday,October 02, 2008 12:38PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests inthe mail today. here aretodaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp:77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'mpretty sure thefishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. Iam finallygettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use afilter frommysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, Iwilltreatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learnedmylessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, butyoujust dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was tobe,Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you alwaysfindthestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200818:03:16 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strongenough to deal with somethinglikeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minorthings like fin rot and tohelpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, aseries of 25%PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bringthe waterqualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so afishesownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issuecould bearesult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will losescales.Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeingpokingout(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming looseandmayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) couldmeananinternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the foodthatthegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making itintothegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducingtheIDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it wassinceithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced anewparasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it,whichunfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and cleantheentiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh saltwater-likepasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all ofthewaterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha verystrongsaltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... withyourfiltersystemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuumthetankagainuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum itagain.Thenrefillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to preparethetank forfishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you couldstartlooking aroundatotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank andstartplanning things inthenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cyclingsoyou will be readytomakeyour new fishpurchases once thefishlesscyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > toarticles referenced abovelistedontheright side under Archives- Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 200812:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passedabout a halfhour ago. It wasswimming thismorningandthen just graduallystarted to bepushed by thecurrents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked likeits scaleswere poking out,but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine aaneroxicteen) and itstummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping forairandeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he justquitbreathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfishwaspickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding.Theyhadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal bodysizebuthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check outthedeadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of hisscalesweregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.Ithoughtthehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayevenwiththemelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there isonlyonehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with lifeas itcomes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would haverunscaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strengthtomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FORTHEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200812:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife]dropsySo the scalesaresticking outlike a pinecone butthegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you takepictures of thefishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of whatyou areseeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind ofrememberitbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threadsgotprettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideasofwhatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanksbeforethrowingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), itcouldsimplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlidtanksoitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfisharenotarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept incichlidtankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselvesinanoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lotaboutHITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back thenumberoftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it butit'snotjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn'tafesteringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pittinginthehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflictinglargerbreedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's relatedtodietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species whicharetheonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live theirlivesinlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fedproperdietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would onlymakethewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which areveryBIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as55Gtanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs alotofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's alsowhyIrecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and eventhatisthebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed asmuchproteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause muchmorewaterqualityissueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a coupleoflongarticles Ihave inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is stillmuchtobe learnedaboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might findmorerecentandmoredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a coupleofyearsoldandbased onthe best sciencereferences availableatthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____<atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____><thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____<thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> > _____ avast!Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081005-0, 10/05/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 2:20:23 AMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 3:28:04 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:28:47 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30955	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

I can match my water change water to the tank. I have a floating thermometor and a 4 gallon metal pot. I get the tap water out of the faucet as close to the tank water as possible, and if I need it warmer, I put heat on it.. I use a floating thermometer to guage the water (I pushed it through a Styrofoam cup to insulate it from my body heat), and use a whisk to constantly circulate so the water heats evenly. As far as my ph goes, it hasn't changed as far as I can tell. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 5:06:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) I'm not sure you should be doing 25% PWC's yet unless you can make your change water the same temp as your tank water. I would get the temp down over the next couple of days and then start doing the 25% PWC's. You might be able to start doing 10% PWC's depending on how cool your tap water is right now. For example, if your tank is at 85F and your tap is at 75F, then even a 10% change would immediately lower it by 1F which is about the most you want to do with stressed fish. In a perfectly healthy and thriving tank, then a bigger temp change would be more easily handled by the fish but you don't need to be throwing more stressors at your fish right now. They have enough to deal with right now. If you can match your tap water temp to your tank water temp within 2-3F, with an extra heater in a 5G bucket, then you could do the 25% PWC's. Another thing to consider is your temp, pH and ammonia level. You don't want to raise your pH when doing PWC's right now since the higher temps and a higher pH makes the ammonia more toxic. You really just have a lot going on because you tried to rush nature... you know the old saying.. "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature!" (from an old margarine commercial.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) I believe I'm following instructions here do 25% water changes per hour until nitrites are below 1 ppm I can stop adding salt now? lower my tank by 1 degree a day What do you mean by slowly remove salt? Does that mean I should reduce the salt balance from 1 tbsp per 5 gallons to zero in the same way I lower water temp? ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com <mailto:crjm28% 40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 3:34:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) I'm gonna do 25%/hr until the nitrites are down. Once the salt is purged from the system, I'm gonna add zeolite to the filter bag when I start noticing the nitrates are up if the tank isn't fully cycled yet by that time. I haven't seen ich for a week. I'm sure it is safe to not worry about it anymore and I can discontinue the salt and start reducing my water temperature. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:06:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

KH is more important to test for than GH in a mature tank as the KH will continually go down and if it gets too low, you could have a pH crash. You shouldn't have this fear since you have a good KH level as long as that is your 48 hour tap water baseline level. If that was your tank water, then we already know that your gravel (probably some limestone) was likely leaching into your water. No, vinegar is not a disinfectant. It is used for cleaning hard water buildup. In your case, since you are replacing the gravel, you could clean the empty tank with a bleach solution. It will rinse off of the glass rather easily. If you don't want to use bleach, then use salt water with one tablespoon per in a cup of water and wipe everything down with that or fill the tank with one tablespoon per gallon and run the tank and filter with that for a couple of hours. That should kill off any nasties. Then empty the tank, run with fresh water for an hour or so. Empty it again, run with fresh water again and that should be sufficient. You could also take your filter media out and flush it under the running hot water to make sure any salt is removed from it but it should be fine with just running fresh water through it with the tank running. Any residual salt that you might have somehow missed would not pose a problem since it's OK to have a pinch of salt per 10G anyhow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:22 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over So, would viniger work best to disinfect? That way I dont have to freak about not getting all the bleach out? Also, my GH and KH are always about the same. Either they are both 8 or gh is 8 kh is 9 but usually the same so i dont even test for KH most of the time. is this just a coinisdense or should I be checking them seperatly? I've messed with hotmail but cannot figure out why its doing this. I can sometimes get it to unscramble though :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 6 Oct 2008 02:08:02 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over I would clean and disinfect the entire 35G system since there was obviouslysome kind of very nasty pathogen in it that wiped out your fish ratherquickly.A pH of 8 is fine.. especially for livebearers like mollies but also formost other common tropical fish as long as you slowly acclimate any newlypurchased fish to your water. Also remember that the pH of a tank willALWAYS come down in a tank that does not have something in it raising thepH. It's better to start off with a little higher pH so that the naturaltank ecology will not cause the pH to crash. Of course, knowing the KHlevels would tell us more about how stable your pH will remain. You mentionyour hardness being a little high but is that KH (Carbonate Hardness) or GH(German Hardness)? How long has the 10G been running? Didn't you recently clone a 2.5G intothe 10G? In either case, if the filter was fully cycled on the 2.5G, whichis now in the 10G, then after you clean the 35G, you can clone the 10G intothe 35G by moving the filter, gravel, decorations, etc.. You shouldn't haveany kind of cycling issue at all since you will have so much water volume todilute the little bioload of the two mollies.Then you can use the 10G and 2.5G to quarantine any new fish you buy.On a side note... did you ever fool with your settings in Hotmail or youremail client to figure out what is stripping all of the formatting out ofmessages that you reply to? I don't even try to review much of your threadsas they look like discombobulated mumbo-jumbo. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:22 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Starting OverOkay, so the last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I have myMollies in the 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does have alittle high ph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I empty itand start over or do I just continue to check the stats and see if it fullycycles and then add a danio or somthing? I just do not know what exactlykilled the fish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If I continue tocycle do I need to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive? or do I justlet it filter and what about the lights? Do they need to stay the same orcan they stay off? ThanksSarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdeal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find thestrength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri, 3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionI think you would have been better off NOT using the Cycle product. Itsimplydoes not work as advertised and actually made the cycling conditionsworsefor me when I tried it a few years back.Remember that the nitrifyingbacteria in the filter media will only grow alarge enough colony to handlethe bioload of the tank that it is on. If youonly have one fish, then thefilter will only have enough N-bacteria tohandle the bioload of one fish. Ifyou have ten fish, then the N-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger tohandle the bioload of the ten fish.If the filter has been running on the2.5G for several weeks and wasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it willhave enough of the goodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10Gtank. If you movedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added morefish, then youwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until theN-bacteria colonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload thatmore fish wouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies andthen do a PWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also doPWC's on the2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and thenjust movethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel ordecorations inthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning on adifferentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colander orstocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your new substratecan grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] CyclingQuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridge frommy 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How long tilthistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filter media?I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank! lolSarah"Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes.Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have runscaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Thu,2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. This isbecause you are into your first phase of cycling so theammoniaeatingbacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colony tohandle theammoniaand is now converting it quickly to nitrite. The nextphase will bethenitrite eating bacteria growing and converting the nitriteto nitratebutuntil then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitrite levels.Ibelieve you arestill running a high level of salt so that willpartiallyprotect the fishfrom nitrite poisoning but you need to get thenitritelevel down by doing aseries of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, itwill lower the nitrite. Remember to replacetheremoved salt. I'm not surewhat your salt level is right now buthopefullyyou do know and can computethe correct level of salt to replacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute thesalt in a container of tank water andslowlypour it back into the tank,avoiding direct contact with the fish. DONOTpour this strong solution ofsalt into or near your filter intake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced abovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6 couple days ago so I did the 25%waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and now its way up."With kids there'snoguarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave meascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe otherway.However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsIs thenitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may know by now, 5ppmisWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > > >>Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests inthe mail today. here are todaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp: 77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'mpretty sure the fishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. Iam finally gettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use afilter from mysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, Iwill treatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learned mylessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but youjust dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be,Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you always findthestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 2008 18:03:16 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strong enough to deal with somethinglikeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minor things like fin rot and tohelpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, a series of 25%PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bring the waterqualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so a fishesownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issue could bearesult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will lose scales.Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeing pokingout(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming loose andmayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) could meananinternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the food thatthegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making it intothegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducing theIDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it was sinceithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced a newparasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it, whichunfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and clean theentiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh salt water-likepasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all of thewaterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha very strongsaltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... with yourfiltersystemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuum thetankagainuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum it again.Thenrefillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to prepare thetank forfishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you could startlooking aroundatotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank and startplanning things inthenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cycling soyou will be readytomakeyour new fishpurchases once the fishlesscyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referencedabovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 2008 12:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticli fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passed about a halfhour ago. It wasswimming thismorningandthen just gradually started to bepushed by thecurrents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked like its scaleswere poking out,but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine a aneroxicteen) and itstummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping for airandeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he just quitbreathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfish waspickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding. Theyhadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal body sizebuthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check out thedeadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of his scalesweregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.I thoughtthehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayeven withthemelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there is onlyonehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have runscaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200812:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsySo the scalesaresticking outlike a pinecone but thegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you takepictures of the fishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of whatyou are seeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind ofremember itbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threads gotprettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideas ofwhatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanks beforethrowingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), it couldsimplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlid tanksoitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfish arenotarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept in cichlidtankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselves inanoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lot aboutHITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back the numberoftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it but it'snotjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn't afesteringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pitting inthehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflicting largerbreedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's related todietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species which aretheonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live their livesinlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fed properdietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would only makethewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which are veryBIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as 55Gtanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs a lotofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's also whyIrecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and even thatisthebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed as muchproteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause much morewaterqualityissueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a couple oflongarticles Ihave inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is still muchtobe learnedaboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might find morerecentandmoredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a couple ofyearsoldandbased onthe best sciencereferences available atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus. phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus .phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081005-0, 10/05/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 2:08:02 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 3:58:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:38:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30957	From: Jennie	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

Hi, Thanks for answering me. I took photos of my fish and put it in the photo files under Jennie's fish. I only have 9 fish left from 1-3 inches in size. One fish looks sick I attach photo of him. �I did sterilze the tank and equipment when I got it with mild bleach solution and scrubbed the tank with salt to get the algea off and a razor blade. I filled the tank with water and let it set. I have city water and run it threw a water filter for drinking water (WaterPik).� I treated the water with API Stress Coat. and powdered good bacteria. Then I bought my fish to cycle the tank. No one told me I could do it without fish. After 20 days I had my water checked after may fish died. It was just ending the nitrite cycle, the guy at Petco did the test. That is when I bought the calico fantail goldfish. Yes I did set them in the bag in the water and add water to the bag. All but one of them died. Two with in a few days and one that had a buldging eye died a week later. Then I bought the 12 goldfish which only 4 lived. Some were sick when I got them but the one's that look� healthy started dieing. Like in the photo. Some didn't even clamp the dorsal fin down just stopped eating and died. It so upseting!! Then yestereday my Betta stopped eating too! Thanks Jennie --- On Mon, 10/6/08, henry puryear <henrypuryear@...> wrote: From: henry puryear <henrypuryear@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 11:23 AM Hello, stop buying fish�.. 12 goldfish in a 45 gallon way too many. Settle down, relax. Let the tank run the course for a month, just do not add any more fish. There can be a number of things causing their death. Did you sterilize the gravel before you set up the tank? Did you sterilize the tank? What is the water conditions like? Have you tested? Could be many factors, was the water treated or conditioned before the fish were added? Are you on city water? Well water? Really need more information. Did you clean and sterilize the filter? Are you using clean/fresh filter media? Have the water checked. Do it yourself, or have a fish store (NOT a general pet store) check it. Did you slowly add tank water to the bag before releasing them? Did you put the bag water in your tank when you released them? See, there are lots of questions.. Please give us specifics� photos help too. From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 1:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30958	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria

You're getting the wrong idea. I do want to stay natural, and H2O2 is natural and so is ozone, and both fall from the sky into lakes, ponds, rivers, and streams, and if an ozone generator will help keep my environment cleaner, cheaper, just as effective as uv, and won't kill my bacteria, I'm all for it. I'm not here to argue. I'm just wanting to know if anyone here has had any experience using the stuff. I use peroxide as part of my waterring routein for my house plants as a fertilizer and to kill mold. I have no intentions on adding that to my tank ( accept to clean algea off the side of the glass durring a pwc, or the glass protector on my hood. untill I know if it can be safely used as an addition to my water maintenance program. As far as the ozone generator is concerned, I'm not buying anymore equipment (except a bigger filter and one more heater) anytime soon. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

OK. Make sure you rinse it well also (I use a large colander) since it will have lots of blue dust in it. The downside of using colored gravel is that over time, some of the coloring will wear off so you'll have white showing through also. I'm sure the coloring isn't good for the fish but it's been used for decades and doesn't kill them right off and it would be diluted/removed with your weekly PWC's. I just wanted to warn you. Of course, if you purchase a quality brand name online, rather than what the local pet store or Wal-Mart might sell, it would probably be a much better quality and less likely to wear off over time. One last note, since you're starting over. If you are going to try live plants, you might want to look at a more natural looking substrate that is plant friendly. If you aren't planning live plants, then only go with about 1/2" to 1" of gravel as it will be much healthier for your tank since it will be easier to clean and will not hold as much decaying detritus in the gravel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 4:33 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over I'm just gonna go with aquarium gravel. I have a black background so I figure a blue would look nice and it will brighten up the tank as well. "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 6 Oct 2008 16:28:47 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over Well, normally, pea gravel is fine but you must have gotten some el cheapoimitation that had some broken up limestone mixed in. Check with Wal-Martto see if they have normal pea gravel and rinse it off good, let some of itdry and test it again.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:55 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Starting OverIt was pea pebble that I bought from walmart in the home and garden section.I figured it would be a cheap alternative. Bad idea. I guess I am startingover with the big tank. I have begun emptying it and will buy new graveltonight. I also have a few plants that I plan on adding in the big tank oncethey spread out, any idea of a good substrate for them that I could purchasefrom walmart? I'm not close to an aquarium store and I would really like toget this reset soon.ThanksSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 6 Oct 2008 02:20:23 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Starting OverWell.. it's not bad if you were keeping hard water fish or if you hadverysoft water but for general tropical fish communities with averagesourcewater, it's not a good thing to have your substrate leaching into thetankwater.What kind of substrate did you have? Was it pet store purchasedorsomething you found?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:44 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] StartingOverAlso, I just tested my rock substrate and it bubbles with distilledvinigerwhich is only 5% alkaline. I'm assuming this is bad and so I willstartlooking for new substrate."With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdeal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find thestrength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> :Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:22:17-0500Subject: [AquaticLife] Starting OverOkay, sothe last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I have myMollies inthe 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does have alittle highph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I empty itand startover or do I just continue to check the stats and see if it fullycycles andthen add a danio or somthing? I just do not know what exactlykilled thefish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If I continue tocycle do Ineed to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive? or do I justlet itfilter and what about the lights? Do they need to stay the same orcan theystay off? ThanksSarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you justdeal withlife as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobablywould have run scared the other way. However, you always find thestrength tomeet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri,3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionI thinkyou would have been better off NOTusing the Cycle product. Itsimply does notwork as advertised and actuallymade the cycling conditionsworse for me whenI tried it a few yearsback.Remember that the nitrifying bacteria in thefilter media will onlygrow alarge enough colony to handle the bioload of thetank that it is on.If youonly have one fish, then the filter will only haveenough N-bacteriatohandle the bioload of one fish. If you have ten fish,then theN-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger to handle the bioload ofthe tenfish.If the filter has been running on the 2.5G for several weeksandwasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it will have enough ofthegoodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10G tank. Ifyoumovedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added more fish,thenyouwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until theN-bacteriacolonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload thatmore fishwouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies andthen do aPWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also doPWC's onthe2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and thenjustmovethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel ordecorationsinthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning onadifferentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colanderorstocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your newsubstratecan grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday,October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]CyclingQuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridgefrommy 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How longtilthistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filtermedia?I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank!lolSarah"Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes.Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverunscaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. Thisisbecause you are into your first phase of cycling sotheammoniaeatingbacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colonytohandle theammoniaand is now converting it quickly to nitrite. Thenextphase will bethenitrite eating bacteria growing and converting thenitriteto nitratebutuntil then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitritelevels.Ibelieve you arestill running a high level of salt so thatwillpartiallyprotect the fishfrom nitrite poisoning but you need to getthenitritelevel down by doing aseries of 25% PWC's, one every hour ortwo.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, itwill lower the nitrite. Remember toreplacetheremoved salt. I'm not surewhat your salt level is right nowbuthopefullyyou do know and can computethe correct level of salt toreplacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute thesalt in a container of tankwater andslowlypour it back into the tank,avoiding direct contact with thefish. DONOTpour this strong solution ofsalt into or near your filterintake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referencedabovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6couple days ago so I did the 25%waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and nowits way up."With kids there'snoguarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave meascript of what was to be, I probably would have runscaredthe otherway.However, you always find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] water statsIs thenitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may knowby now, 5ppmisWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Origi nal <ppmisWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Origi nal> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > >>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > > > >>>Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday,October 02, 2008 12:38PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticli fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests inthe mail today. here aretodaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp:77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'mpretty sure thefishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. Iam finallygettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use afilter frommysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, Iwilltreatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learnedmylessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, butyoujust dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was tobe,Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you alwaysfindthestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200818:03:16 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strongenough to deal with somethinglikeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minorthings like fin rot and tohelpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, aseries of 25%PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bringthe waterqualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so afishesownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issuecould bearesult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will losescales.Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeingpokingout(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming looseandmayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) couldmeananinternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the foodthatthegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making itintothegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducingtheIDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it wassinceithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced anewparasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it,whichunfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and cleantheentiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh saltwater-likepasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all ofthewaterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha verystrongsaltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... withyourfiltersystemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuumthetankagainuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum itagain.Thenrefillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to preparethetank forfishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you couldstartlooking aroundatotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank andstartplanning things inthenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cyclingsoyou will be readytomakeyour new fishpurchases once thefishlesscyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > toarticles referenced abovelistedontheright side under Archives- Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 200812:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticli fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passedabout a halfhour ago. It wasswimming thismorningandthen just graduallystarted to bepushed by thecurrents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked likeits scaleswere poking out,but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine aaneroxicteen) and itstummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping forairandeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he justquitbreathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfishwaspickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding.Theyhadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal bodysizebuthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check outthedeadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of hisscalesweregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.Ithoughtthehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayevenwiththemelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there isonlyonehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with lifeas itcomes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would haverunscaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strengthtomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FORTHEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLif e%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200812:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife]dropsySo the scalesaresticking outlike a pinecone butthegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you takepictures of thefishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of whatyou areseeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind ofrememberitbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threadsgotprettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideasofwhatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanksbeforethrowingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), itcouldsimplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlidtanksoitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfisharenotarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept incichlidtankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselvesinanoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lotaboutHITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back thenumberoftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it butit'snotjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn'tafesteringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pittinginthehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflictinglargerbreedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's relatedtodietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species whicharetheonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live theirlivesinlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fedproperdietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would onlymakethewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which areveryBIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as55Gtanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs alotofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's alsowhyIrecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and eventhatisthebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed asmuchproteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause muchmorewaterqualityissueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a coupleoflongarticles Ihave inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is stillmuchtobe learnedaboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might findmorerecentandmoredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a coupleofyearsoldandbased onthe best sciencereferences availableatthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spir onucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <availableatthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spi ronucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> <atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus .phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus .phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> ><thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus. phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> > > _____ avast!Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30960	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

I think someone else has already replied but I also wanted to let you know that you shouldn't have more than one or two fancy goldfish in 45G tank. With two, you will have to be very strict about doing weekly 25% PWC's (or more often) and doing proper filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. Goldfish get HUGE and simply cannot be kept in undersized tanks or overstocked or you will constantly have health problems and fish dying. Really, a 55G 4' long tank is the minimum sized tank that I would recommend for two fancy goldfish. For the long bodied variety, a 6' to 8' long tank would be needed for a couple of them but a pond with at least 50G to 75G of water per goldfish would be better. Filtration and PWC's can help compensate for some overcrowding for 2 goldfish but not for 12 goldfish in a 45G tank. You should return all but one or two of your goldfish (only keep one or two fancy goldfish.. none of the long-bodied variety) and if you feel up to it, smack the pet store employee upside the head for me (for giving you such crappy advice and selling you all of them goldfish for such a small tank). When he/she looks at you for why you smacked him/her, tell 'em GoldLenny said to do it! ;-) Go to my blog and on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see two FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to ask lots of questions here. While at my blog, make sure you read up on Cycling With Fish since you are stuck with that right now. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the mistakes mentioned in there. The majority of your problems are related to not properly cycling your tanks first. You will have to get a master test kit and start doing daily testing for ammonia/nitrites and do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help protect your goldfish from nitrite poisoning up to 1.0ppm. There's so much more I could say but the online tutorials would be your best place to start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 5:07:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30961	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

-----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 6:59 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Well actually some of mine don't have reddish tails at this moment. They all did, but some of them have faded out. Don't think it's stress and I'm feeding them food that allegedly is high in red coloring. Hikari micro wafers, hikari micro pellets, and OSI RTB red tiny bits (fine adn very fine). Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Hmmm....I would love to find an image of one that doesn't. I have googled for images of Pristellas and I can't find any without the orange tail. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress Pristellas come in a variety of color variations, and I'm fairly srue they don't all have reddish tails. Mine do, but I lucked out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress I have a pair of "mystery tetras" in my tank ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30962	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria

OK. But you still need to learn how to crawl first. Yes, I've used HP in a tank before but not for normal algae issues. I feel like Mr. Miyagi. Wax On, Wax Off! Paint the fence.. up, down.. not side to side! You're not ready for the Crane kick yet! ;-) The difference between using HP on a cut for us humans or in a house plant is that we aren't having to breath it in. Even with a house plant, you have to be careful how much you use or you could cause fatal oxidation of the roots. Everything you dump into the water has to be passed over and through the gills of your fish so it's best to do things right in the first place, so you don't have to ever worry about dumping chemicals into the tank. Can HP be used to combat certain types of stubborn algae? Yes. Should it be used indiscriminately for normal algae? NO! If you get some algae on your glass, use an algae scrubber on a stick... or one of them fancy magnetic ones. No respectable fish keeper has to resort to using HP as part of their everyday aquarium maintenance. You really need to get all of these quick fixes out of your head, Danielson! ;-) Also remember that if you are getting too much algae on the glass, that is Mother Nature (or the Big Man Upstairs) telling you that something may not be right in your tank. You don't want to kill off that algae indiscriminately as that algae may be saving your fish. Algae is a normal and natural part of ALL fish tanks. If the algae becomes a problem where it's so thick on the glass that you can't see through it, then that means there's a problem in the fish tank. I don't have a problem with algae in my tanks as long as it stays in control. I let it grow unfettered on the back glass of the tank in my goldfish tank. It makes the tanks look more natural and are natural cleaners of any excess nitrogenous or phosphorous waste compounds in the water. It also reminds us to do our weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance to dilute/remove the excess waste from the tank. Before doing your tank maintenance, simply scrape the algae off the front and side glasses and then do your tank maintenance. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria You're getting the wrong idea. I do want to stay natural, and H2O2 is natural and so is ozone, and both fall from the sky into lakes, ponds, rivers, and streams, and if an ozone generator will help keep my environment cleaner, cheaper, just as effective as uv, and won't kill my bacteria, I'm all for it. I'm not here to argue. I'm just wanting to know if anyone here has had any experience using the stuff. I use peroxide as part of my waterring routein for my house plants as a fertilizer and to kill mold. I have no intentions on adding that to my tank ( accept to clean algea off the side of the glass durring a pwc, or the glass protector on my hood. untill I know if it can be safely used as an addition to my water maintenance program. As far as the ozone generator is concerned, I'm not buying anymore equipment (except a bigger filter and one more heater) anytime soon. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:59:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 5:24:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30963	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide, algae, and N-Bacteria

The protective glass on my hood is what I use peroxide on. It was forming algae before I even added fish. Okay. No peroxide in my tank. I'll just treat the water I get from the pwc. I've changed 50% already, but forgot to take measurements on the first 25%. I guess I'll wait till i do another. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30964	From: Jennie	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

Wow I didn't realize you need so much room for goldfish!! Thanks Jennie --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 3:07 PM I think someone else has already replied but I also wanted to let you know that you shouldn't have more than one or two fancy goldfish in 45G tank. With two, you will have to be very strict about doing weekly 25% PWC's (or more often) and doing proper filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. Goldfish get HUGE and simply cannot be kept in undersized tanks or overstocked or you will constantly have health problems and fish dying. Really, a 55G 4' long tank is the minimum sized tank that I would recommend for two fancy goldfish. For the long bodied variety, a 6' to 8' long tank would be needed for a couple of them but a pond with at least 50G to 75G of water per goldfish would be better. Filtration and PWC's can help compensate for some overcrowding for 2 goldfish but not for 12 goldfish in a 45G tank. You should return all but one or two of your goldfish (only keep one or two fancy goldfish.. none of the long-bodied variety) and if you feel up to it, smack the pet store employee upside the head for me (for giving you such crappy advice and selling you all of them goldfish for such a small tank). When he/she looks at you for why you smacked him/her, tell 'em GoldLenny said to do it! ;-) Go to my blog and on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see two FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to ask lots of questions here. While at my blog, make sure you read up on Cycling With Fish since you are stuck with that right now. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the mistakes mentioned in there. The majority of your problems are related to not properly cycling your tanks first. You will have to get a master test kit and start doing daily testing for ammonia/nitrites and do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help protect your goldfish from nitrite poisoning up to 1.0ppm. There's so much more I could say but the online tutorials would be your best place to start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 5:07:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

Yes, a single adult sized goldfish has the body mass of over 500 1" goldfish. We certainly wouldn't put 500 1" goldfish in an average sized tank. Putting too many in a undersized or minimal sized tank will cause them to be stunted meaning they will not grow to their full potential and they'll have many health issues and not live a full live. Fancy goldfish should live for at least 10-15 years and the record is 43 years. Long-bodied goldfish live even longer. While the fancy variety aren't as long as the long-bodied variety, they still share similar body mass sizes. Each time a goldfish doubles it's length, it increases it's body mass by eight times. A 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" is equal to eight 2" or 64 1". An 8" goldfish is equal to eight 4" or over 500 1" goldfish. Only by keeping any and all fish in proper sized tanks (or ponds), will it give them a chance to live a full and healthy life. Anything less will basically be intentionally sentencing them to many health problems and an early death... and I know nobody wants to knowingly do this to their pet fish. It's a shame that so many pet stores do not properly inform people of the requirements for the fish they sell. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Wow I didn't realize you need so much room for goldfish!! Thanks Jennie --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 3:07 PM I think someone else has already replied but I also wanted to let you know that you shouldn't have more than one or two fancy goldfish in 45G tank. With two, you will have to be very strict about doing weekly 25% PWC's (or more often) and doing proper filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. Goldfish get HUGE and simply cannot be kept in undersized tanks or overstocked or you will constantly have health problems and fish dying. Really, a 55G 4' long tank is the minimum sized tank that I would recommend for two fancy goldfish. For the long bodied variety, a 6' to 8' long tank would be needed for a couple of them but a pond with at least 50G to 75G of water per goldfish would be better. Filtration and PWC's can help compensate for some overcrowding for 2 goldfish but not for 12 goldfish in a 45G tank. You should return all but one or two of your goldfish (only keep one or two fancy goldfish.. none of the long-bodied variety) and if you feel up to it, smack the pet store employee upside the head for me (for giving you such crappy advice and selling you all of them goldfish for such a small tank). When he/she looks at you for why you smacked him/her, tell 'em GoldLenny said to do it! ;-) Go to my blog and on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see two FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to ask lots of questions here. While at my blog, make sure you read up on Cycling With Fish since you are stuck with that right now. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the mistakes mentioned in there. The majority of your problems are related to not properly cycling your tanks first. You will have to get a master test kit and start doing daily testing for ammonia/nitrites and do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help protect your goldfish from nitrite poisoning up to 1.0ppm. There's so much more I could say but the online tutorials would be your best place to start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 5:07:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 6:01:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 6:10:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30966	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

You are learning like I am. I thought they would be a breeze to have, but they are WORK. I have a 55 G with a 2 Orandas, I Ryukin, one common and one Koi. The Koi throws it off balance a lot and he is growing fast. One of my Orandas spent Saturday more up side down and at the top of tank, then not. I thought for sure he was a goner, but since that day he has not done that. When he'd see me he would swim ok, but then later on he'd be up in the corner. The one I call Baby I thought had a swim bladder problem, not this one.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Jennie Date: 10/6/2008 6:00:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Wow I didn't realize you need so much room for goldfish!! Thanks Jennie --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 3:07 PM I think someone else has already replied but I also wanted to let you know that you shouldn't have more than one or two fancy goldfish in 45G tank. With two, you will have to be very strict about doing weekly 25% PWC's (or more often) and doing proper filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. Goldfish get HUGE and simply cannot be kept in undersized tanks or overstocked or you will constantly have health problems and fish dying. Really, a 55G 4' long tank is the minimum sized tank that I would recommend for two fancy goldfish. For the long bodied variety, a 6' to 8' long tank would be needed for a couple of them but a pond with at least 50G to 75G of water per goldfish would be better. Filtration and PWC's can help compensate for some overcrowding for 2 goldfish but not for 12 goldfish in a 45G tank. You should return all but one or two of your goldfish (only keep one or two fancy goldfish.. none of the long-bodied variety) and if you feel up to it, smack the pet store employee upside the head for me (for giving you such crappy advice and selling you all of them goldfish for such a small tank). When he/she looks at you for why you smacked him/her, tell 'em GoldLenny said to do it! ;-) Go to my blog and on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see two FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to ask lots of questions here. While at my blog, make sure you read up on Cycling With Fish since you are stuck with that right now. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the mistakes mentioned in there. The majority of your problems are related to not properly cycling your tanks first. You will have to get a master test kit and start doing daily testing for ammonia/nitrites and do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help protect your goldfish from nitrite poisoning up to 1.0ppm. There's so much more I could say but the online tutorials would be your best place to start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 5:07:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30967	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

NOW, Lenny, you are telling me I have to be a mathematician...... I am so glad I started saving all the info I have rec'd here. How my Charlie lived at least 15 years is beyond me. Thanks for all your expertise.....  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 10/6/2008 6:16:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Yes, a single adult sized goldfish has the body mass of over 500 1" goldfish. We certainly wouldn't put 500 1" goldfish in an average sized tank. Putting too many in a undersized or minimal sized tank will cause them to be stunted meaning they will not grow to their full potential and they'll have many health issues and not live a full live. Fancy goldfish should live for at least 10-15 years and the record is 43 years. Long-bodied goldfish live even longer. While the fancy variety aren't as long as the long-bodied variety, they still share similar body mass sizes. Each time a goldfish doubles it's length, it increases it's body mass by eight times. A 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" is equal to eight 2" or 64 1". An 8" goldfish is equal to eight 4" or over 500 1" goldfish. Only by keeping any and all fish in proper sized tanks (or ponds), will it give them a chance to live a full and healthy life. Anything less will basically be intentionally sentencing them to many health problems and an early death... and I know nobody wants to knowingly do this to their pet fish. It's a shame that so many pet stores do not properly inform people of the requirements for the fish they sell. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Wow I didn't realize you need so much room for goldfish!! Thanks Jennie --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 3:07 PM I think someone else has already replied but I also wanted to let you know that you shouldn't have more than one or two fancy goldfish in 45G tank. With two, you will have to be very strict about doing weekly 25% PWC's (or more often) and doing proper filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. Goldfish get HUGE and simply cannot be kept in undersized tanks or overstocked or you will constantly have health problems and fish dying. Really, a 55G 4' long tank is the minimum sized tank that I would recommend for two fancy goldfish. For the long bodied variety, a 6' to 8' long tank would be needed for a couple of them but a pond with at least 50G to 75G of water per goldfish would be better. Filtration and PWC's can help compensate for some overcrowding for 2 goldfish but not for 12 goldfish in a 45G tank. You should return all but one or two of your goldfish (only keep one or two fancy goldfish.. none of the long-bodied variety) and if you feel up to it, smack the pet store employee upside the head for me (for giving you such crappy advice and selling you all of them goldfish for such a small tank). When he/she looks at you for why you smacked him/her, tell 'em GoldLenny said to do it! ;-) Go to my blog and on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see two FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to ask lots of questions here. While at my blog, make sure you read up on Cycling With Fish since you are stuck with that right now. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the mistakes mentioned in there. The majority of your problems are related to not properly cycling your tanks first. You will have to get a master test kit and start doing daily testing for ammonia/nitrites and do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help protect your goldfish from nitrite poisoning up to 1.0ppm. There's so much more I could say but the online tutorials would be your best place to start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 5:07:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 6:01:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 6:10:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30968	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Group Picture

Although it looks similar to a Lamprologine type of Cichlid it is Not a Cichlid. -Mike wrasse's have got to be one of God's cruel jokes. Some are really cool looking, and some are hideously oooooogly! It is a tossup between African Chichlid and wrasse to me -----Original Message----- From: Chris <crjm28@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 10:48 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Group Picture wrasse's have got to be one of God's cruel jokes. Some are really cool looking, and some are hideously oooooogly! It is a tossup between African Chichlid and wrasse to me [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30969	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

Hi Margie, Jennie and any other goldfish keepers, Fancy goldfish are very prone to having swim-bladder disorders. Sometimes it's simply a birth defect caused by the inbreeding that took place to come up with the fancy varieties. Other times, it could be caused by diet (gas or bloating), constipation, internal bacteria/parasitic issues, etc. The first thing to do... and I do this at least weekly with mine as a preventive measure.. is to feed them green pea "meat". Take some unsalted canned green peas or defrosted frozen green peas (this is what I use) and just pinch the skin to pop out the two halves of the "meat". I just squeeze them right into my tank and my goldfish gobble up the halves. The green pea "meat" helps to clean out the goldfish. If it was constipation, this will relieve the pressure off the swim bladder or valves and allow the goldfish to regulate it again. If the pea "meat" doesn't work, then it could be one of the other issues above and would take further diagnosis. Feeding them a quality food low in fillers (wheat, etc.) seems to help them avoid swim bladder issues related to their diet. I also got some recent leftover frozen mixed vegetables from one of my neighbors who was evacuating for a recent hurricane and I've been feeding them this also. So far, they've been gobbling up all of their veggies. I do par-boil the carrot cubes to soften them up but the rest of the mixed veggies seem soft enough. Besides, goldfish actually have teeth in the back of their throat called pharyngeal teeth so that is why you will see them chewing their food sometimes. They do not have much of a stomach and a short digestive system so what goes it, comes out rather quickly. This is why they are perpetually wanting to eat since they do not get a lot of nutrition from each meal since it passes through them so quickly. Technically, it's better to feed them very small meals a few times a day to have less waste in the tank. Here is more info on better feeding guidelines for our fancy goldfish. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/Food.html (check out the reference links too) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Phelps Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! You are learning like I am. I thought they would be a breeze to have, but they are WORK. I have a 55 G with a 2 Orandas, I Ryukin, one common and one Koi. The Koi throws it off balance a lot and he is growing fast. One of my Orandas spent Saturday more up side down and at the top of tank, then not. I thought for sure he was a goner, but since that day he has not done that. When he'd see me he would swim ok, but then later on he'd be up in the corner. The one I call Baby I thought had a swim bladder problem, not this one.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Jennie Date: 10/6/2008 6:00:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Wow I didn't realize you need so much room for goldfish!! Thanks Jennie --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 3:07 PM I think someone else has already replied but I also wanted to let you know that you shouldn't have more than one or two fancy goldfish in 45G tank. With two, you will have to be very strict about doing weekly 25% PWC's (or more often) and doing proper filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. Goldfish get HUGE and simply cannot be kept in undersized tanks or overstocked or you will constantly have health problems and fish dying. Really, a 55G 4' long tank is the minimum sized tank that I would recommend for two fancy goldfish. For the long bodied variety, a 6' to 8' long tank would be needed for a couple of them but a pond with at least 50G to 75G of water per goldfish would be better. Filtration and PWC's can help compensate for some overcrowding for 2 goldfish but not for 12 goldfish in a 45G tank. You should return all but one or two of your goldfish (only keep one or two fancy goldfish.. none of the long-bodied variety) and if you feel up to it, smack the pet store employee upside the head for me (for giving you such crappy advice and selling you all of them goldfish for such a small tank). When he/she looks at you for why you smacked him/her, tell 'em GoldLenny said to do it! ;-) Go to my blog and on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see two FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to ask lots of questions here. While at my blog, make sure you read up on Cycling With Fish since you are stuck with that right now. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the mistakes mentioned in there. The majority of your problems are related to not properly cycling your tanks first. You will have to get a master test kit and start doing daily testing for ammonia/nitrites and do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help protect your goldfish from nitrite poisoning up to 1.0ppm. There's so much more I could say but the online tutorials would be your best place to start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 7:00:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

Was Charlie a long-bodied or fancy goldfish? In either case, they are a very formidable species being able to tolerate a lot of our mistakes. 15 years is a good length of time in any case. What size tank was he in? How big did he get.. body length? With the numbers of poor goldfish who die such early deaths, it's always good to hear a success story. And no... you don't have to be a mathematician. It's all figured out already by other mathematicians. This site actually gives the mathematical formula (oblate ellipsoid) for determining our fancy goldfishes body mass without having to weigh them. http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4468/weight.html (START SNIP) To measure the volume indirectly, you can approximate your fish as an oblate ellipsoid, using its length width and height. An oblate ellipsoid is an ellipsoid where none of the three axes are of equal length. The equation for the volume of such a geometric solid is pi times length times height times width divided by 6 (or more simply 0.52xLxWxH). I would suggest using the snout-to-vent distance as the length. (END SNIP) The chart on that page also shows by actual measuring how a goldfish grows it's body mass by eight times for each time it doubles it's length. It only goes up to 5" of body length but other sites that have actual measurements for goldfish and Koi show the same kind of geometric progression in body mass. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Phelps Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! NOW, Lenny, you are telling me I have to be a mathematician...... I am so glad I started saving all the info I have rec'd here. How my Charlie lived at least 15 years is beyond me. Thanks for all your expertise.....  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 10/6/2008 6:16:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Yes, a single adult sized goldfish has the body mass of over 500 1" goldfish. We certainly wouldn't put 500 1" goldfish in an average sized tank. Putting too many in a undersized or minimal sized tank will cause them to be stunted meaning they will not grow to their full potential and they'll have many health issues and not live a full live. Fancy goldfish should live for at least 10-15 years and the record is 43 years. Long-bodied goldfish live even longer. While the fancy variety aren't as long as the long-bodied variety, they still share similar body mass sizes. Each time a goldfish doubles it's length, it increases it's body mass by eight times. A 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" is equal to eight 2" or 64 1". An 8" goldfish is equal to eight 4" or over 500 1" goldfish. Only by keeping any and all fish in proper sized tanks (or ponds), will it give them a chance to live a full and healthy life. Anything less will basically be intentionally sentencing them to many health problems and an early death... and I know nobody wants to knowingly do this to their pet fish. It's a shame that so many pet stores do not properly inform people of the requirements for the fish they sell. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Wow I didn't realize you need so much room for goldfish!! Thanks Jennie --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 3:07 PM I think someone else has already replied but I also wanted to let you know that you shouldn't have more than one or two fancy goldfish in 45G tank. With two, you will have to be very strict about doing weekly 25% PWC's (or more often) and doing proper filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. Goldfish get HUGE and simply cannot be kept in undersized tanks or overstocked or you will constantly have health problems and fish dying. Really, a 55G 4' long tank is the minimum sized tank that I would recommend for two fancy goldfish. For the long bodied variety, a 6' to 8' long tank would be needed for a couple of them but a pond with at least 50G to 75G of water per goldfish would be better. Filtration and PWC's can help compensate for some overcrowding for 2 goldfish but not for 12 goldfish in a 45G tank. You should return all but one or two of your goldfish (only keep one or two fancy goldfish.. none of the long-bodied variety) and if you feel up to it, smack the pet store employee upside the head for me (for giving you such crappy advice and selling you all of them goldfish for such a small tank). When he/she looks at you for why you smacked him/her, tell 'em GoldLenny said to do it! ;-) Go to my blog and on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see two FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to ask lots of questions here. While at my blog, make sure you read up on Cycling With Fish since you are stuck with that right now. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the mistakes mentioned in there. The majority of your problems are related to not properly cycling your tanks first. You will have to get a master test kit and start doing daily testing for ammonia/nitrites and do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help protect your goldfish from nitrite poisoning up to 1.0ppm. There's so much more I could say but the online tutorials would be your best place to start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 5:07:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 6:01:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 6:10:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 6:43:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 7:14:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30971	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

Thanks Lenny, I think I might try the "pea" thing tomorrow. And again thanks  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 10/06/08 19:14:55 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi Margie, Jennie and any other goldfish keepers, Fancy goldfish are very prone to having swim-bladder disorders. Sometimes it's simply a birth defect caused by the inbreeding that took place to come up with the fancy varieties. Other times, it could be caused by diet (gas or bloating), constipation, internal bacteria/parasitic issues, etc. The first thing to do... and I do this at least weekly with mine as a preventive measure.. is to feed them green pea "meat". Take some unsalted canned green peas or defrosted frozen green peas (this is what I use) and just pinch the skin to pop out the two halves of the "meat". I just squeeze them right into my tank and my goldfish gobble up the halves. The green pea "meat" helps to clean out the goldfish. If it was constipation, this will relieve the pressure off the swim bladder or valves and allow the goldfish to regulate it again. If the pea "meat" doesn't work, then it could be one of the other issues above and would take further diagnosis. Feeding them a quality food low in fillers (wheat, etc.) seems to help them avoid swim bladder issues related to their diet. I also got some recent leftover frozen mixed vegetables from one of my neighbors who was evacuating for a recent hurricane and I've been feeding them this also. So far, they've been gobbling up all of their veggies. I do par-boil the carrot cubes to soften them up but the rest of the mixed veggies seem soft enough. Besides, goldfish actually have teeth in the back of their throat called pharyngeal teeth so that is why you will see them chewing their food sometimes. They do not have much of a stomach and a short digestive system so what goes it, comes out rather quickly. This is why they are perpetually wanting to eat since they do not get a lot of nutrition from each meal since it passes through them so quickly. Technically, it's better to feed them very small meals a few times a day to have less waste in the tank. Here is more info on better feeding guidelines for our fancy goldfish. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/Food.html (check out the reference links too) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Phelps Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! You are learning like I am. I thought they would be a breeze to have, but they are WORK. I have a 55 G with a 2 Orandas, I Ryukin, one common and one Koi. The Koi throws it off balance a lot and he is growing fast. One of my Orandas spent Saturday more up side down and at the top of tank, then not. I thought for sure he was a goner, but since that day he has not done that. When he'd see me he would swim ok, but then later on he'd be up in the corner. The one I call Baby I thought had a swim bladder problem, not this one.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Jennie Date: 10/6/2008 6:00:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Wow I didn't realize you need so much room for goldfish!! Thanks Jennie --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 3:07 PM I think someone else has already replied but I also wanted to let you know that you shouldn't have more than one or two fancy goldfish in 45G tank. With two, you will have to be very strict about doing weekly 25% PWC's (or more often) and doing proper filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. Goldfish get HUGE and simply cannot be kept in undersized tanks or overstocked or you will constantly have health problems and fish dying. Really, a 55G 4' long tank is the minimum sized tank that I would recommend for two fancy goldfish. For the long bodied variety, a 6' to 8' long tank would be needed for a couple of them but a pond with at least 50G to 75G of water per goldfish would be better. Filtration and PWC's can help compensate for some overcrowding for 2 goldfish but not for 12 goldfish in a 45G tank. You should return all but one or two of your goldfish (only keep one or two fancy goldfish.. none of the long-bodied variety) and if you feel up to it, smack the pet store employee upside the head for me (for giving you such crappy advice and selling you all of them goldfish for such a small tank). When he/she looks at you for why you smacked him/her, tell 'em GoldLenny said to do it! ;-) Go to my blog and on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see two FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to ask lots of questions here. While at my blog, make sure you read up on Cycling With Fish since you are stuck with that right now. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the mistakes mentioned in there. The majority of your problems are related to not properly cycling your tanks first. You will have to get a master test kit and start doing daily testing for ammonia/nitrites and do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help protect your goldfish from nitrite poisoning up to 1.0ppm. There's so much more I could say but the online tutorials would be your best place to start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 7:00:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30972	From: Lisa	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up?

Okay. So here's the deal. I'm looking at a ten gal tank set up. It comes with everything except the plastic plants, heater and the actual fish. So my question would be. One, For a cold water set up. What could I put in a community tank? And two, For a heated tank. What community fish are compatible? This will be my first time keeping a tank of this size. But I'm no stranger to fish keeping. Thanks. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30973	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up?

Hi Lisa, Check out the article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" on my blog for lots of options. There aren't a lot of cold/cool water fish that will work in a 10G since they are either big fish (like Goldfish) or even the smaller cool/cold water fish like Zebra Danios and WCMM's really should be in something bigger than a 10G since they are such big swimmers... but there are plenty of tropical fish options. Here's a list of common cool/cold water fish... many that people think may be tropical fish. http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Okay. So here's the deal. I'm looking at a ten gal tank set up. It comes with everything except the plastic plants, heater and the actual fish. So my question would be. One, For a cold water set up. What could I put in a community tank? And two, For a heated tank. What community fish are compatible? This will be my first time keeping a tank of this size. But I'm no stranger to fish keeping. Thanks. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 9:51:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30974	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

Damn! All that work and still not good enough. I guess I made headway tank temp 86 ph 7,8 ammonia - around .25ppm nitrites - 2ppm I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I didn't add salt back into the water change either because I wanted to add zeolite to slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get those nitrite levels down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter back and poured some into space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a null reading for ammonia I'll take that out and see what happens next. Will my nitrites continue to fall, or will they go back up? We'll see.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30975	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: white clouds anyone?

Hey, doesn’t anyone still like white clouds? They are a pretty fish and considered, “cold water”. They even come in the long fin type now, they quite pretty schooling. Gold fish are nice, but putting three in a 45 gallon is pushing it, You should come by my house, I have several dozen goldfish that are very large, plus about a dozen koi that are longer than my arm, they are all in a half acre pond, they are beautiful to watch and are pigs when they are fed every afternoon From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Hi Lisa, Check out the article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" on my blog for lots of options. There aren't a lot of cold/cool water fish that will work in a 10G since they are either big fish (like Goldfish) or even the smaller cool/cold water fish like Zebra Danios and WCMM's really should be in something bigger than a 10G since they are such big swimmers... but there are plenty of tropical fish options. Here's a list of common cool/cold water fish... many that people think may be tropical fish. HYPERLINK "http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm"http://freshaq uarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:19 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Okay. So here's the deal. I'm looking at a ten gal tank set up. It comes with everything except the plastic plants, heater and the actual fish. So my question would be. One, For a cold water set up. What could I put in a community tank? And two, For a heated tank. What community fish are compatible? This will be my first time keeping a tank of this size. But I'm no stranger to fish keeping. Thanks. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 9:51:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30976	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

Remember that slowing down the ammonia eating bacteria using zeolite will only prolong your cycling issues. You will be starving your ammonia eating bacteria so that colony will diminish in size instead of grow. As soon as you remove the zeolite, your ammonia level will spike since your N-bacteria colony will not have grown large enough to handle the ammonia bioload. The zeolite will also slow down or negate the growth of your nitrite eating bacteria as well since there won't be as much ammonia to be converted into nitrite so there will be no need for more nitrite eaters. At this point in "Cycling With Fish", the only thing you can really do is continue to use salt to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning and do PWC's as needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down to 1.0ppm or less. Now you see why we recommend and why I push "Fishless Cycling" so much... cycling with fish is really an arduous process on the fish and the fish keeper. The difference is that it's only a pain in the butt to us while it's deadly to the fish. I believe you are using Prime as your dechlor so at least your ammonia should be in a non-toxic state as a normal ammonia level of 0.25ppm with your pH and temp would make the ammonia very toxic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Damn! All that work and still not good enough. I guess I made headway tank temp 86 ph 7,8 ammonia - around .25ppm nitrites - 2ppm I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I didn't add salt back into the water change either because I wanted to add zeolite to slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get those nitrite levels down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter back and poured some into space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a null reading for ammonia I'll take that out and see what happens next. Will my nitrites continue to fall, or will they go back up? We'll see. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 10:45:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30977	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: white clouds anyone?

I can bring my fishing pole. Are they good for eating? ----- Original Message ---- From: henry puryear <henrypuryear@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 11:33:29 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] white clouds anyone? Hey, doesn�t anyone still like white clouds? They are a pretty fish and considered, �cold water�. They even come in the long fin type now, they quite pretty schooling.. Gold fish are nice, but putting three in a 45 gallon is pushing it, You should come by my house, I have several dozen goldfish that are very large, plus about a dozen koi that are longer than my arm, they are all in a half acre pond, they are beautiful to watch and are pigs when they are fed every afternoon� From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Hi Lisa, Check out the article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" on my blog for lots of options. There aren't a lot of cold/cool water fish that will work in a 10G since they are either big fish (like Goldfish) or even the smaller cool/cold water fish like Zebra Danios and WCMM's really should be in something bigger than a 10G since they are such big swimmers... but there are plenty of tropical fish options. Here's a list of common cool/cold water fish... many that people think may be tropical fish. HYPERLINK "http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ od/fishqa/ f/coldwaterfish. htm"http://freshaq uarium.about. com/od/fishqa/ f/coldwaterfish. htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com"http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:19 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Okay. So here's the deal. I'm looking at a ten gal tank set up. It comes with everything except the plastic plants, heater and the actual fish.. So my question would be. One, For a cold water set up. What could I put in a community tank? And two, For a heated tank. What community fish are compatible? This will be my first time keeping a tank of this size. But I'm no stranger to fish keeping. Thanks. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast. com"http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 9:51:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: white clouds anyone?

I just mentioned them, "WCMM's" (White Cloud Mountain Minnows) in a recent reply to Lisa about cool/cold water fish for her new 10G tank. I personally think a school of WCMM's are too much for a 10G but I know some people do squeeze them in. I guess if the tank was planted and there was plenty of filtration to give them faster water, it could work but you'd be giving them limited swimming area and rarely see them schooling in a 10G. As far as goldfish, I agree with you and am even more strict. I think two fancy goldfish would be tough to make work long-term in a 45G. The minimum size tank I recommend for two fancy goldfish is a 55G 4' long tank to at least give them a fighting chance of reaching nearly full size. I'm sure you've seen pics of read about Bruce, the fancy Oranda goldfish who is now around 16" long and holds his own Guinness World Record ... http://www.goldfishconnection.com/articles/details.php?articleId=46 <http://www.goldfishconnection.com/articles/details.php?articleId=46&parentI d=2> &parentId=2 http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsid_2037000/2037050.stm Oops.. I just realized you included Lisa's thread in this one with a changed subject name. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of henry puryear Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] white clouds anyone? Hey, doesn't anyone still like white clouds? They are a pretty fish and considered, "cold water". They even come in the long fin type now, they quite pretty schooling. Gold fish are nice, but putting three in a 45 gallon is pushing it, You should come by my house, I have several dozen goldfish that are very large, plus about a dozen koi that are longer than my arm, they are all in a half acre pond, they are beautiful to watch and are pigs when they are fed every afternoon. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Hi Lisa, Check out the article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" on my blog for lots of options. There aren't a lot of cold/cool water fish that will work in a 10G since they are either big fish (like Goldfish) or even the smaller cool/cold water fish like Zebra Danios and WCMM's really should be in something bigger than a 10G since they are such big swimmers... but there are plenty of tropical fish options. Here's a list of common cool/cold water fish... many that people think may be tropical fish. HYPERLINK "http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm <http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm> "http://freshaq uarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:19 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Okay. So here's the deal. I'm looking at a ten gal tank set up. It comes with everything except the plastic plants, heater and the actual fish. So my question would be. One, For a cold water set up. What could I put in a community tank? And two, For a heated tank. What community fish are compatible? This will be my first time keeping a tank of this size. But I'm no stranger to fish keeping. Thanks. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 10:55:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30979	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

So no matter what I do I'm screwed is what you are saying. I can't just turn my heater down to 80, but my ammonia is hurting my fish at 86 degrees. I should have purged most of the salt from the tank. I thought about the zeolite starving off the food supply for ammonia converting bacteria. I figured that if I slow down the ammonia converting bacteria just until I get the Nitrites down to a safe level I could remove the zeolite. At the worst I would have a mini cycle for a day and the colony would return to normal. Any clue how quickly that stuff takes to starve off the ammonia converting bacteria at .25 to .5 ppm. Any clue how long it would take for the nitrite converting bacteria to bring down the nitrites at 2ppm to below 1ppm? I took out all potential ammonia sources from the tank. I gave the fish a feeding between water changes so I could siphon extra food off the bottom of the tank. Tomorrow I'm gonna continue the pwc and revacume the gravel to get the poop off the bottom of the tank and withhold feeding for another day or so. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have the problem solved. If I have to I'll siphon water out of the tank into an extra 10 gallon tank and hanging filter that I could filter the water through with zeolite. The only drawback is that the 20 gallon won't have an operating filter durring that time because there won't be enough water in the tank to pull from, but I have an air pump and an 18" bubble wand to keep the water circulating On a side note, I have a nylon stocking filled with perlite that I've had floating around the tank since day one that I can squeeze and let loose the ammonia converting bacteria into water. That should help counter a mini cycle some. I still don't know if chloramines are used in my water, but yes, I was using prime as a declor to counter that potential effect ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail..com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 11:45:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Remember that slowing down the ammonia eating bacteria using zeolite will only prolong your cycling issues. You will be starving your ammonia eating bacteria so that colony will diminish in size instead of grow. As soon as you remove the zeolite, your ammonia level will spike since your N-bacteria colony will not have grown large enough to handle the ammonia bioload. The zeolite will also slow down or negate the growth of your nitrite eating bacteria as well since there won't be as much ammonia to be converted into nitrite so there will be no need for more nitrite eaters. At this point in "Cycling With Fish", the only thing you can really do is continue to use salt to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning and do PWC's as needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down to 1.0ppm or less. Now you see why we recommend and why I push "Fishless Cycling" so much... cycling with fish is really an arduous process on the fish and the fish keeper. The difference is that it's only a pain in the butt to us while it's deadly to the fish. I believe you are using Prime as your dechlor so at least your ammonia should be in a non-toxic state as a normal ammonia level of 0.25ppm with your pH and temp would make the ammonia very toxic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Damn! All that work and still not good enough.. I guess I made headway tank temp 86 ph 7,8 ammonia - around .25ppm nitrites - 2ppm I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I didn't add salt back into the water change either because I wanted to add zeolite to slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get those nitrite levels down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter back and poured some into space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a null reading for ammonia I'll take that out and see what happens next.. Will my nitrites continue to fall, or will they go back up? We'll see.. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 10:45:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30980	From: Chris	Date: 10/6/2008
Subject: Back to api master kits

You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good light. A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make out what I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness of the screen might be throwing the color off. What do you think? At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30981	From: Chris	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel?

After I siphoned my gravel I did a water test and saw a huge jump in my ammonia to a color similar to a very dark lime green color. Did I mess up on an ammonia test, or does that tend to happen?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30982	From: Blue fish	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Back to api master kits

Which test are you referring to? Before you resort to high priced electronics, you should get the Kordon AccuTru test kit that \\Steve// recommends highly. Do a search of the group for them and you'll see where I even did some research to find prices around $60.00 for the Kordon Master test kit. Something that is likely affecting your ability to match the coloring is your water color. If I'm not mistaken, didn't you have some green water recently? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good light. A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make out what I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness of the screen might be throwing the color off. What do you think? At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 2:48:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

No... I said if you are using Prime (and I see by your last sentence that you are), then the ammonia should be non-toxic so the temp/pH issues affecting ammonia would be moot. When you say you took all potential ammonia sources from the tank, what do you mean? I'm not sure if you realize it yet but the fish are the primary source of ammonia, with decaying detritus only becoming a major ammonia factory if allowed to build up in the gravel or in the filter. Fish pee, like human pee and animal pee contains ammonia (ever smell a cat litter box or in the old days.. a diaper bin?). Gill function also creates ammonia. You are probably very close to finally getting a full cycle that you should just do the PWC's as needed until it fully matures. Anything else you try may just set you back and then you'll be doing the PWC's next week. Just keep up the pinch or more of salt per 10G and do the PWC's to keep the nitrites below 1.0. Your ammonia level seems low enough and the fact that you are getting nitrites means that phase of the cycling is nearly complete so don't do anything like the zeolite which would only set that part of the cycling back. Before each PWC, test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. If your nitrates are climbing, then that will indicate you are even closer. Of course, your live plants could be sucking up some of the nitrogenous wastes so that would throw off the full value of the test results but you should see some rise in nitrates between PWC's once the nitrite eating bacteria are growing. Once they start growing, it's not much longer after that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 11:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) So no matter what I do I'm screwed is what you are saying. I can't just turn my heater down to 80, but my ammonia is hurting my fish at 86 degrees. I should have purged most of the salt from the tank. I thought about the zeolite starving off the food supply for ammonia converting bacteria. I figured that if I slow down the ammonia converting bacteria just until I get the Nitrites down to a safe level I could remove the zeolite. At the worst I would have a mini cycle for a day and the colony would return to normal. Any clue how quickly that stuff takes to starve off the ammonia converting bacteria at .25 to .5 ppm. Any clue how long it would take for the nitrite converting bacteria to bring down the nitrites at 2ppm to below 1ppm? I took out all potential ammonia sources from the tank. I gave the fish a feeding between water changes so I could siphon extra food off the bottom of the tank. Tomorrow I'm gonna continue the pwc and revacume the gravel to get the poop off the bottom of the tank and withhold feeding for another day or so. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have the problem solved. If I have to I'll siphon water out of the tank into an extra 10 gallon tank and hanging filter that I could filter the water through with zeolite. The only drawback is that the 20 gallon won't have an operating filter durring that time because there won't be enough water in the tank to pull from, but I have an air pump and an 18" bubble wand to keep the water circulating On a side note, I have a nylon stocking filled with perlite that I've had floating around the tank since day one that I can squeeze and let loose the ammonia converting bacteria into water. That should help counter a mini cycle some. I still don't know if chloramines are used in my water, but yes, I was using prime as a declor to counter that potential effect ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail..com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail..com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 11:45:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Remember that slowing down the ammonia eating bacteria using zeolite will only prolong your cycling issues. You will be starving your ammonia eating bacteria so that colony will diminish in size instead of grow. As soon as you remove the zeolite, your ammonia level will spike since your N-bacteria colony will not have grown large enough to handle the ammonia bioload. The zeolite will also slow down or negate the growth of your nitrite eating bacteria as well since there won't be as much ammonia to be converted into nitrite so there will be no need for more nitrite eaters. At this point in "Cycling With Fish", the only thing you can really do is continue to use salt to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning and do PWC's as needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down to 1.0ppm or less. Now you see why we recommend and why I push "Fishless Cycling" so much... cycling with fish is really an arduous process on the fish and the fish keeper. The difference is that it's only a pain in the butt to us while it's deadly to the fish. I believe you are using Prime as your dechlor so at least your ammonia should be in a non-toxic state as a normal ammonia level of 0.25ppm with your pH and temp would make the ammonia very toxic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Damn! All that work and still not good enough.. I guess I made headway tank temp 86 ph 7,8 ammonia - around .25ppm nitrites - 2ppm I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I didn't add salt back into the water change either because I wanted to add zeolite to slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get those nitrite levels down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter back and poured some into space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a null reading for ammonia I'll take that out and see what happens next.. Will my nitrites continue to fall, or will they go back up? We'll see.. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 2:41:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30985	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel?

No, siphoning your gravel will not cause an ammonia spike. Were you doing a PWC while doing this gravel vacuuming? I know you stated earlier that you still don't know if you have chloramines or not... this is something you need to find out by calling your water utility... but even with chloramine, the ammonia level should only get to 0.5ppm although I've seen rare reports of higher levels of ammonia when the chloramine is broken down... but even then only 1.0ppm to 2.0ppm... never higher. In a fully cycled tank, even those levels are not a problem with a 25% PWC as the bio-filter will immediately cycle the 0.25 to 0.5ppm of ammonia added with the 25% PWC. It's night time and I don't have my API test kit out and can't recall from memory, so what is the corresponding number to the color? I remember the dark green being kind of high but just do not recall the actual number. Did you add the zeolite to your filter system at some point prior to this test but after your last test? Had you cleaned and fully recharged the zeolite prior to adding it or could it have still had some sucked up ammonia in it and then when you added it to your tank which still had salt in the water, the salt would likely have caused the ammonia to leach out of the zeolite. This is how zeolite is recharged.. by soaking it in a salt water solution. Do a re-test to make sure you didn't mess up the dark green test and then if it also shows the high level, make sure you are using enough Prime to counteract that higher level and start doing your hourly PWC's to get it back down below 1.0ppm. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel? After I siphoned my gravel I did a water test and saw a huge jump in my ammonia to a color similar to a very dark lime green color. Did I mess up on an ammonia test, or does that tend to happen? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 3:27:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30986	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help!!

Well I never knew that goldfish would eat veggies. I am going to try this just to keep my fish healthy Thanks Lenny :o) «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 1:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi Margie, Jennie and any other goldfish keepers, Fancy goldfish are very prone to having swim-bladder disorders. Sometimes it's simply a birth defect caused by the inbreeding that took place to come up with the fancy varieties. Other times, it could be caused by diet (gas or bloating), constipation, internal bacteria/parasitic issues, etc. The first thing to do... and I do this at least weekly with mine as a preventive measure.. is to feed them green pea "meat". Take some unsalted canned green peas or defrosted frozen green peas (this is what I use) and just pinch the skin to pop out the two halves of the "meat". I just squeeze them right into my tank and my goldfish gobble up the halves. The green pea "meat" helps to clean out the goldfish. If it was constipation, this will relieve the pressure off the swim bladder or valves and allow the goldfish to regulate it again. If the pea "meat" doesn't work, then it could be one of the other issues above and would take further diagnosis. Feeding them a quality food low in fillers (wheat, etc.) seems to help them avoid swim bladder issues related to their diet. I also got some recent leftover frozen mixed vegetables from one of my neighbors who was evacuating for a recent hurricane and I've been feeding them this also. So far, they've been gobbling up all of their veggies. I do par-boil the carrot cubes to soften them up but the rest of the mixed veggies seem soft enough. Besides, goldfish actually have teeth in the back of their throat called pharyngeal teeth so that is why you will see them chewing their food sometimes. They do not have much of a stomach and a short digestive system so what goes it, comes out rather quickly. This is why they are perpetually wanting to eat since they do not get a lot of nutrition from each meal since it passes through them so quickly. Technically, it's better to feed them very small meals a few times a day to have less waste in the tank. Here is more info on better feeding guidelines for our fancy goldfish. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/Food.html (check out the reference links too) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Phelps Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! You are learning like I am. I thought they would be a breeze to have, but they are WORK. I have a 55 G with a 2 Orandas, I Ryukin, one common and one Koi. The Koi throws it off balance a lot and he is growing fast. One of my Orandas spent Saturday more up side down and at the top of tank, then not. I thought for sure he was a goner, but since that day he has not done that. When he'd see me he would swim ok, but then later on he'd be up in the corner. The one I call Baby I thought had a swim bladder problem, not this one.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> -------Original Message------- From: Jennie Date: 10/6/2008 6:00:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Wow I didn't realize you need so much room for goldfish!! Thanks Jennie --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 3:07 PM I think someone else has already replied but I also wanted to let you know that you shouldn't have more than one or two fancy goldfish in 45G tank. With two, you will have to be very strict about doing weekly 25% PWC's (or more often) and doing proper filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. Goldfish get HUGE and simply cannot be kept in undersized tanks or overstocked or you will constantly have health problems and fish dying. Really, a 55G 4' long tank is the minimum sized tank that I would recommend for two fancy goldfish. For the long bodied variety, a 6' to 8' long tank would be needed for a couple of them but a pond with at least 50G to 75G of water per goldfish would be better. Filtration and PWC's can help compensate for some overcrowding for 2 goldfish but not for 12 goldfish in a 45G tank. You should return all but one or two of your goldfish (only keep one or two fancy goldfish.. none of the long-bodied variety) and if you feel up to it, smack the pet store employee upside the head for me (for giving you such crappy advice and selling you all of them goldfish for such a small tank). When he/she looks at you for why you smacked him/her, tell 'em GoldLenny said to do it! ;-) Go to my blog and on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see two FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to ask lots of questions here. While at my blog, make sure you read up on Cycling With Fish since you are stuck with that right now. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the mistakes mentioned in there. The majority of your problems are related to not properly cycling your tanks first. You will have to get a master test kit and start doing daily testing for ammonia/nitrites and do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help protect your goldfish from nitrite poisoning up to 1.0ppm. There's so much more I could say but the online tutorials would be your best place to start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 7:00:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30987	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help!! (now Goldfish feeding)

Continuing this food thread a little more, I wanted to recommend Omega One Medium Goldfish Pellets. Read the ingredients on Omega One brand foods compared to other brands like Tetra, Nutra-Fin, etc. You'll see that Omega One has three fish products before getting to a wheat product. With the other brands, they'll start off with wheat products and the wheat products is one of the leading causes of gas/bloating/floating. One of my fancies does still have a slight swim-bladder issue when he eats too many of the Omega One pellets so I try to limit them as part of a varied diet but the high protein content in the Omega One goldfish pellets is a good thing as part of their overall diet. Before recently feeding them the frozen mixed vegetables (which they do eat all of them... unlike me when I would pick out the lima beans as a kid.. lol). I used to only feed them the green pea "meat", zucchini slices (blanched and the rind cut to eliminate the possibility of getting caught in the "O" rind leftover after the eat all of the pulp... snails and plecos will eat the rind) and broccoli florets (blanched, but they don't eat the stalk but my pleco would eat the stalk). Now that I know they'll eat all of the veggies in the frozen mixed vegetables, I'll probably just get that from now on and feed them a mix of the veggies and the Omega One goldfish pellets. Of course, they'll still occasionally munch on my plants but that is good for their digestion as well.... did anyone say fiber? ;-) Remember to remove anything not eaten by your fish/critters after 12-24 hours but with goldfish, this isn't usually a problem but if you don't have snails or a dwarf pleco, then you will have to remove the rind of a zucchini slice. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help!! Well I never knew that goldfish would eat veggies. I am going to try this just to keep my fish healthy Thanks Lenny :o) «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 1:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi Margie, Jennie and any other goldfish keepers, Fancy goldfish are very prone to having swim-bladder disorders. Sometimes it's simply a birth defect caused by the inbreeding that took place to come up with the fancy varieties. Other times, it could be caused by diet (gas or bloating), constipation, internal bacteria/parasitic issues, etc. The first thing to do... and I do this at least weekly with mine as a preventive measure.. is to feed them green pea "meat". Take some unsalted canned green peas or defrosted frozen green peas (this is what I use) and just pinch the skin to pop out the two halves of the "meat". I just squeeze them right into my tank and my goldfish gobble up the halves. The green pea "meat" helps to clean out the goldfish. If it was constipation, this will relieve the pressure off the swim bladder or valves and allow the goldfish to regulate it again. If the pea "meat" doesn't work, then it could be one of the other issues above and would take further diagnosis. Feeding them a quality food low in fillers (wheat, etc.) seems to help them avoid swim bladder issues related to their diet. I also got some recent leftover frozen mixed vegetables from one of my neighbors who was evacuating for a recent hurricane and I've been feeding them this also. So far, they've been gobbling up all of their veggies. I do par-boil the carrot cubes to soften them up but the rest of the mixed veggies seem soft enough. Besides, goldfish actually have teeth in the back of their throat called pharyngeal teeth so that is why you will see them chewing their food sometimes. They do not have much of a stomach and a short digestive system so what goes it, comes out rather quickly. This is why they are perpetually wanting to eat since they do not get a lot of nutrition from each meal since it passes through them so quickly. Technically, it's better to feed them very small meals a few times a day to have less waste in the tank. Here is more info on better feeding guidelines for our fancy goldfish. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/Food.html <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/Food.html> (check out the reference links too) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie Phelps Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! You are learning like I am. I thought they would be a breeze to have, but they are WORK. I have a 55 G with a 2 Orandas, I Ryukin, one common and one Koi. The Koi throws it off balance a lot and he is growing fast. One of my Orandas spent Saturday more up side down and at the top of tank, then not. I thought for sure he was a goner, but since that day he has not done that. When he'd see me he would swim ok, but then later on he'd be up in the corner. The one I call Baby I thought had a swim bladder problem, not this one.  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > -------Original Message------- From: Jennie Date: 10/6/2008 6:00:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! Wow I didn't realize you need so much room for goldfish!! Thanks Jennie --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 3:07 PM I think someone else has already replied but I also wanted to let you know that you shouldn't have more than one or two fancy goldfish in 45G tank. With two, you will have to be very strict about doing weekly 25% PWC's (or more often) and doing proper filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. Goldfish get HUGE and simply cannot be kept in undersized tanks or overstocked or you will constantly have health problems and fish dying. Really, a 55G 4' long tank is the minimum sized tank that I would recommend for two fancy goldfish. For the long bodied variety, a 6' to 8' long tank would be needed for a couple of them but a pond with at least 50G to 75G of water per goldfish would be better. Filtration and PWC's can help compensate for some overcrowding for 2 goldfish but not for 12 goldfish in a 45G tank. You should return all but one or two of your goldfish (only keep one or two fancy goldfish.. none of the long-bodied variety) and if you feel up to it, smack the pet store employee upside the head for me (for giving you such crappy advice and selling you all of them goldfish for such a small tank). When he/she looks at you for why you smacked him/her, tell 'em GoldLenny said to do it! ;-) Go to my blog and on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, you'll see two FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. Feel free to ask lots of questions here. While at my blog, make sure you read up on Cycling With Fish since you are stuck with that right now. Also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the mistakes mentioned in there. The majority of your problems are related to not properly cycling your tanks first. You will have to get a master test kit and start doing daily testing for ammonia/nitrites and do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help protect your goldfish from nitrite poisoning up to 1.0ppm. There's so much more I could say but the online tutorials would be your best place to start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Hi, 2 months ago I bought a used 45 gal fish tank with gravel, filter, etc. I cycled the tank and fish were dieing so I treated them with Wardley's Ick away, it kills Ick, external parasites and fungus. Treat then a 50% water change and 3 days later do the same thing again 3 times. I saved 4 out of 12 little goldfish, about an inch long. I also added API stress coat to the water and salt. So I think my tank is cycled at 20 days. So I buy 4 calico fantail goldfish, one inch long. Two die within a day and one has a bulging eye, an injury I thought. So I get 12 more little goldfish, 2 inch long. 2 had anchor worm, several had white spots ick or fungus I'm not sure which. I treated with Ick Away again the spots went away but the tank recycles every 50% water change. I thought we are OK now but now I had one that got black lines on head and sides then died. The pet store guy had me put Mardel CopperSafe in the water for a month it's still there. Then 2 more died, they just stopped eating and sat still alot or swam funny. But no outward signs of anything wrong. They died. Now in a different tank I have a betta that just stopped eating. I had put a ceramic log out of the other tank in with him when I bought him did I mess up? I'm just sick with all this dieing. I take care of my parents and they aren't well either. To much stress. Anyway does anyone know what I should do??? Thanks, Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 4:29:43 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30988	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

Ive done alot of reading on cycling a brand new tank before i got my original 20 gallon setup. Alot of cycling with fish has to do with which type of fish you use and how many. If i remember the recommended number of fish was 1 per 4 gallons to cycle a tank properly, and using tetras, and danio's were good choices as they were stronger fish in general. All but one of my danio still exists today and he died months after the cycling was over and i had added my clown loach. It was also my understanding that fishless cycling was more expensive. I do not write this to contradict lenny.It was just my experience that cycling with fish was not really troublesome, i did nothing special other than some research before hand. I think his view on fishless cycling is great, as cycling with fish is very stressful on the little guys even if you do use a stronger breed like tetras. The other issue you run into, like i have, is that you may end up having to buy a kind of fish you do not wish to stock in the tank after the cycle, and you get those little danios swimming around forever. :) Also, just a note on somethin i read while doing research, if you know someone with a running tank if you can get a hand full of their tank gravel or an old filter media maybe even, you can use that to boost your bacteria growth quite a bit and reduce the cycle time by quite a bit. Please correct me if i am wrong, i would hate to be spreading bad information :( --Dave On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Remember that slowing down the ammonia eating bacteria using zeolite > will > only prolong your cycling issues. > > You will be starving your ammonia eating bacteria so that colony will > diminish in size instead of grow. As soon as you remove the zeolite, your > ammonia level will spike since your N-bacteria colony will not have grown > large enough to handle the ammonia bioload. The zeolite will also slow down > or negate the growth of your nitrite eating bacteria as well since there > won't be as much ammonia to be converted into nitrite so there will be no > need for more nitrite eaters. > > At this point in "Cycling With Fish", the only thing you can really do is > continue to use salt to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning and do > PWC's > as needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down to 1.0ppm or less. > > Now you see why we recommend and why I push "Fishless Cycling" so much... > cycling with fish is really an arduous process on the fish and the fish > keeper. The difference is that it's only a pain in the butt to us while > it's deadly to the fish. > > I believe you are using Prime as your dechlor so at least your ammonia > should be in a non-toxic state as a normal ammonia level of 0.25ppm with > your pH and temp would make the ammonia very toxic. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) > > Damn! All that work and still not good enough. I guess I made headway > > tank temp 86 > ph 7,8 > ammonia - around .25ppm > nitrites - 2ppm > > I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I didn't > add > salt back into the water change either because I wanted to add zeolite to > slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get those nitrite levels > down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter back and poured some into > space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a null reading for ammonia I'll > take that out and see what happens next. Will my nitrites continue to fall, > or will they go back up? > We'll see. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/6/2008 10:45:48 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30989	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Help:white cloudy water:Help

I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population still not down. I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end of my rope with the issue.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30990	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

Dave, Where have you researched all this cycling information that you indicate? I hope the source is not from so-called "authentic" aquarium sites that almost anyone can put up on the 'net as their own "official" web page, as no one doing that need have any indication of correct procedures. I doubt you would find cycling with fish as being recommended in any authoritative book on the hobby. Since you are already aware of fish-less cycling, why would you even consider doing otherwise? As you state, it may "not be really troublesome" to the hobbyist at all, but only in the sense that it won't affect our longevity (although it will require diligent water parameter monitoring and adequate PWC's to maintain life) although I doubt you could say the same for the fish you would put through this. With one fish per 4 gallons as the recommended bioload you are referring to, you would be needing to do an abundance of PWC's to keep them alive; any particular size to these expendable fish? Three inches? Four inches? Yes, Zebra Danio's are recommended by those uncaring or uneducated hobbyists as one of the hardier fish to cycle with, but that doesn't support using fish for this purpose. As for fish-less cycling being more expensive, I can't fathom that comment at all when you can buy a bottle of clear ammonia for the price of just one fish. If the ammonia cost you $1 more, would you still want to sacrifice fish for this, or put them through this stress? If you're thinking of saving pennies, think of it as not having to change any water when doing a fish-less cycle vs. all the PWC's you'll need to do to keep the fish from dying. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > Ive done alot of reading on cycling a brand new tank before i got my > original 20 gallon setup. Alot of cycling with fish has to do with which > type of fish you use and how many. If i remember the recommended number of > fish was 1 per 4 gallons to cycle a tank properly, and using tetras, and > danio's were good choices as they were stronger fish in general. All but one > of my danio still exists today and he died months after the cycling was over > and i had added my clown loach. It was also my understanding that fishless > cycling was more expensive. > > I do not write this to contradict lenny.It was just my experience that > cycling with fish was not really troublesome, i did nothing special other > than some research before hand. I think his view on fishless cycling is > great, as cycling with fish is very stressful on the little guys even if you > do use a stronger breed like tetras. The other issue you run into, like i > have, is that you may end up having to buy a kind of fish you do not wish to > stock in the tank after the cycle, and you get those little danios swimming > around forever. :) > > Also, just a note on somethin i read while doing research, if you know > someone with a running tank if you can get a hand full of their tank gravel > or an old filter media maybe even, you can use that to boost your bacteria > growth quite a bit and reduce the cycle time by quite a bit. > > Please correct me if i am wrong, i would hate to be spreading bad > information :( > > --Dave > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > wrote: > > > Remember that slowing down the ammonia eating bacteria using zeolite > > will > > only prolong your cycling issues. > > > > You will be starving your ammonia eating bacteria so that colony will > > diminish in size instead of grow. As soon as you remove the zeolite, your > > ammonia level will spike since your N-bacteria colony will not have grown > > large enough to handle the ammonia bioload. The zeolite will also slow down > > or negate the growth of your nitrite eating bacteria as well since there > > won't be as much ammonia to be converted into nitrite so there will be no > > need for more nitrite eaters. > > > > At this point in "Cycling With Fish", the only thing you can really do is > > continue to use salt to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning and do > > PWC's > > as needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down to 1.0ppm or less. > > > > Now you see why we recommend and why I push "Fishless Cycling" so much... > > cycling with fish is really an arduous process on the fish and the fish > > keeper. The difference is that it's only a pain in the butt to us while > > it's deadly to the fish. > > > > I believe you are using Prime as your dechlor so at least your ammonia > > should be in a non-toxic state as a normal ammonia level of 0.25ppm with > > your pH and temp would make the ammonia very toxic. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) > > > > Damn! All that work and still not good enough. I guess I made headway > > > > tank temp 86 > > ph 7,8 > > ammonia - around .25ppm > > nitrites - 2ppm > > > > I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I didn't > > add > > salt back into the water change either because I wanted to add zeolite to > > slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get those nitrite levels > > down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter back and poured some into > > space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a null reading for ammonia I'll > > take that out and see what happens next. Will my nitrites continue to fall, > > or will they go back up? > > We'll see. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > > Tested on: 10/6/2008 10:45:48 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30991	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

David, It's true that you can cycle with fish and if you do nothing as far as testing, etc., it's very easy on the human (not troublesome at all) but it's very arduous on the fish and many, many fish die due to this process. Sure, if you don't test the water, you never see the ammonia levels reaching 4, 5, 6 or 7 ppm or the nitrite levels reaching the same highs but your fish certainly feel it. Even if they make it through the ammonia and nitrite spikes, they will have permanent damage to their gills and many other organs. They will likely not live a full lifespan and may have health issues that they would not have had otherwise. Technically, cycling with fish in the simplest of terms is inhumane and if fish were protected like cats and dogs, government agents might be busting down your door to save the fish. LOL I chuckle at the thought but it's true. Cycling with fish, which takes about 6-8 weeks, and allowing the waste levels to build up in the tank to such high levels would be comparable to keeping a litter of puppies in a small pen laying around in their own waste for 6-8 weeks and humane people would not do that to their puppies or kittens but for some reason, these same folks are convinced by a pet store employee that it's OK to do it to the fish.... mainly because they do not even know what they are doing to the fish. Believe me, I'm no bleeding heart liberal... far from it... but I just don't see the reason for doing this to a pet when there are much better, safer and more humane alternatives. Fishless cycling costs about a quarter (25 cents) or less since it only uses a small portion of a 99 cent bottle of plain ammonia and it doesn't harm any fish in the process. A fishless cycle prepares your tank for a full bioload of fish so you can add all of your fish at once, at the end of the fishless cycle, instead of a few at a time every few weeks like when cycling with fish. Yes, you are correct about using filter media from a fully cycled tank to jump start the cycling of a new tank and this works even better when fishless cycling. I've seen charts of people that fishless cycled a new tank to handle 4-5ppm of ammonia per day in only 7 days using cycled media from a healthy tank... but that is the key... a healthy tank. Many people do not have access to filter media from a healthy tank. You certainly couldn't count on the filter media being healthy from most pet stores and not many LFS' either. The good thing about fishless cycling with some cycled media is that if you do get some unhealthy media (maybe with a parasite like Ich), running the tank without a host fish during the fishless cycle might just kill off the pathogen you did get with the media but it's best to strive for healthy media only so you don't have the added risk. If you don't have access to healthy filter media, then the fishless cycle will take around 4-8 weeks. The other more expensive alternative to fishless cycling with plain ammonia would be to purchase Dr. Tim's One And Only which is Dr. Tim's successor product to Bio-Spira. Using this product will basically instantly cycle the tank for nearly a full bioload of fish so you can add the product one day and add your fish the next day. You should still test the water and be prepared to do PWC's if needed but the scientific data shows that even if there is an ammonia or nitrite level detected, it's usually so slight that it's not in the toxic levels like cycling with fish. Even this way only costs $10.00 to $15.00 which is not much and doesn't put a batch of fish through the arduous process of cycling with fish and you don't end up with fish you didn't want. So in summary.... Cycling with fish is inhumane and extremely harmful to the fish. Fishless cycling with ammonia costs about a quarter and doesn't harm any fish. Cycling with Dr. Tim's One And Only costs about $10.00 to $15.00 and might only have a mild irritation to the fish. Hmmmm.... There might be a Master Card spoof to be had out of this summary. LOL Cycling With Fish = Inhumane, harmful and potentially deadly Cycling with Dr. Tim's One And Only = $15.00 Fishless Cycling = PRICELESS!!!! On a side note... a clown loach gets much too big for a 20G tank. They grow to over 12" and should reach 16". They should be kept in shoals of five or more. A 6' long tank with at least 100G would be the smallest I would recommend for a shoal of them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Ive done alot of reading on cycling a brand new tank before i got my original 20 gallon setup. Alot of cycling with fish has to do with which type of fish you use and how many. If i remember the recommended number of fish was 1 per 4 gallons to cycle a tank properly, and using tetras, and danio's were good choices as they were stronger fish in general. All but one of my danio still exists today and he died months after the cycling was over and i had added my clown loach. It was also my understanding that fishless cycling was more expensive. I do not write this to contradict lenny.It was just my experience that cycling with fish was not really troublesome, i did nothing special other than some research before hand. I think his view on fishless cycling is great, as cycling with fish is very stressful on the little guys even if you do use a stronger breed like tetras. The other issue you run into, like i have, is that you may end up having to buy a kind of fish you do not wish to stock in the tank after the cycle, and you get those little danios swimming around forever. :) Also, just a note on somethin i read while doing research, if you know someone with a running tank if you can get a hand full of their tank gravel or an old filter media maybe even, you can use that to boost your bacteria growth quite a bit and reduce the cycle time by quite a bit. Please correct me if i am wrong, i would hate to be spreading bad information :( --Dave On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Remember that slowing down the ammonia eating bacteria using zeolite > will only prolong your cycling issues. > > You will be starving your ammonia eating bacteria so that colony will > diminish in size instead of grow. As soon as you remove the zeolite, > your ammonia level will spike since your N-bacteria colony will not > have grown large enough to handle the ammonia bioload. The zeolite > will also slow down or negate the growth of your nitrite eating > bacteria as well since there won't be as much ammonia to be converted > into nitrite so there will be no need for more nitrite eaters. > > At this point in "Cycling With Fish", the only thing you can really do > is continue to use salt to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning and > do PWC's as needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down to 1.0ppm or > less. > > Now you see why we recommend and why I push "Fishless Cycling" so much... > cycling with fish is really an arduous process on the fish and the > fish keeper. The difference is that it's only a pain in the butt to us > while it's deadly to the fish. > > I believe you are using Prime as your dechlor so at least your ammonia > should be in a non-toxic state as a normal ammonia level of 0.25ppm > with your pH and temp would make the ammonia very toxic. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) > > Damn! All that work and still not good enough. I guess I made headway > > tank temp 86 > ph 7,8 > ammonia - around .25ppm > nitrites - 2ppm > > I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I > didn't add salt back into the water change either because I wanted to > add zeolite to slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get > those nitrite levels down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter > back and poured some into space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a > null reading for ammonia I'll take that out and see what happens next. > Will my nitrites continue to fall, or will they go back up? > We'll see. > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 7:16:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30992	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

My two cents worth. I personally just let the cycle slowly, but I have heard of folks cycling a tank with a sardines packed in water, others have used other products. Just stuff I have heard and learned over the years. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Dave, Where have you researched all this cycling information that you indicate? I hope the source is not from so-called "authentic" aquarium sites that almost anyone can put up on the 'net as their own "official" web page, as no one doing that need have any indication of correct procedures. I doubt you would find cycling with fish as being recommended in any authoritative book on the hobby. Since you are already aware of fish-less cycling, why would you even consider doing otherwise? As you state, it may "not be really troublesome" to the hobbyist at all, but only in the sense that it won't affect our longevity (although it will require diligent water parameter monitoring and adequate PWC's to maintain life) although I doubt you could say the same for the fish you would put through this. With one fish per 4 gallons as the recommended bioload you are referring to, you would be needing to do an abundance of PWC's to keep them alive; any particular size to these expendable fish? Three inches? Four inches? Yes, Zebra Danio's are recommended by those uncaring or uneducated hobbyists as one of the hardier fish to cycle with, but that doesn't support using fish for this purpose. As for fish-less cycling being more expensive, I can't fathom that comment at all when you can buy a bottle of clear ammonia for the price of just one fish. If the ammonia cost you $1 more, would you still want to sacrifice fish for this, or put them through this stress? If you're thinking of saving pennies, think of it as not having to change any water when doing a fish-less cycle vs. all the PWC's you'll need to do to keep the fish from dying. Ray --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > Ive done alot of reading on cycling a brand new tank before i got my > original 20 gallon setup. Alot of cycling with fish has to do with which > type of fish you use and how many. If i remember the recommended number of > fish was 1 per 4 gallons to cycle a tank properly, and using tetras, and > danio's were good choices as they were stronger fish in general. All but one > of my danio still exists today and he died months after the cycling was over > and i had added my clown loach. It was also my understanding that fishless > cycling was more expensive. > > I do not write this to contradict lenny.It was just my experience that > cycling with fish was not really troublesome, i did nothing special other > than some research before hand. I think his view on fishless cycling is > great, as cycling with fish is very stressful on the little guys even if you > do use a stronger breed like tetras. The other issue you run into, like i > have, is that you may end up having to buy a kind of fish you do not wish to > stock in the tank after the cycle, and you get those little danios swimming > around forever. :) > > Also, just a note on somethin i read while doing research, if you know > someone with a running tank if you can get a hand full of their tank gravel > or an old filter media maybe even, you can use that to boost your bacteria > growth quite a bit and reduce the cycle time by quite a bit. > > Please correct me if i am wrong, i would hate to be spreading bad > information :( > > --Dave > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > wrote: > > > Remember that slowing down the ammonia eating bacteria using zeolite > > will > > only prolong your cycling issues. > > > > You will be starving your ammonia eating bacteria so that colony will > > diminish in size instead of grow. As soon as you remove the zeolite, your > > ammonia level will spike since your N-bacteria colony will not have grown > > large enough to handle the ammonia bioload. The zeolite will also slow down > > or negate the growth of your nitrite eating bacteria as well since there > > won't be as much ammonia to be converted into nitrite so there will be no > > need for more nitrite eaters. > > > > At this point in "Cycling With Fish", the only thing you can really do is > > continue to use salt to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning and do > > PWC's > > as needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down to 1.0ppm or less. > > > > Now you see why we recommend and why I push "Fishless Cycling" so much... > > cycling with fish is really an arduous process on the fish and the fish > > keeper. The difference is that it's only a pain in the butt to us while > > it's deadly to the fish. > > > > I believe you are using Prime as your dechlor so at least your ammonia > > should be in a non-toxic state as a normal ammonia level of 0.25ppm with > > your pH and temp would make the ammonia very toxic. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 PM > > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) > > > > Damn! All that work and still not good enough. I guess I made headway > > > > tank temp 86 > > ph 7,8 > > ammonia - around .25ppm > > nitrites - 2ppm > > > > I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I didn't > > add > > salt back into the water change either because I wanted to add zeolite to > > slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get those nitrite levels > > down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter back and poured some into > > space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a null reading for ammonia I'll > > take that out and see what happens next. Will my nitrites continue to fall, > > or will they go back up? > > We'll see. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > > Tested on: 10/6/2008 10:45:48 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30993	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

What color is the cloud? How long has the tank been set up? What kind of fish do you have and how many, besides the two clown loaches? What is your maintenance routine on your tank... i.e., PWC's (partial water changes), filter system maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc.? Do you have a test for nitrites? Double check your nitrate test as it's uncommon to have a zero nitrate reading in a cycled tank... even one with live plants. Besides, zero nitrates isn't good for your plants either since that is one of the nutrients they eat. DO NOT use chemicals like "clear ease". They are bad for your fishes gill function. In fact, 95% of the chemical fixes sold at pet stores are simply not needed 95% of the time. There are safer and better alternatives. You will have to find a new home for the clown loaches as your tank isn't large enough for them. They grow to over 12" and should reach 16". They should be in shoals of five or more. A 6' long, 100G tank would be needed for long term housing for a shoal. There are smaller loaches that would have been more suitable but even they should be kept in shoals of five or more so they would also put a burden on your bioload. In the future, when any fish keeper is considering a maintenance fish like plecos (for algae) or loaches (for snails), make a deal with your LFS so that you can return them for store credit after they've done their jobs or start to get too big for your tank. Most good LFS (local fish stores) are willing to do this as they can sell the larger fish for more money and they didn't have to spend any time or money growing them out. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population still not down. I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end of my rope with the issue. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 7:29:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30994	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you do not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true parameters, it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you are not getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your nitrite converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert nitrite into nitrate. Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to this problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of any available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters you give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough or not yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants when giving them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please offer any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are providing. With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any nitrifying bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend the cycling period. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > 1. 50% water change > 2. Clear ease > 3. pH is at 6.8 > 4. Nitrate 0 > 5. Ammonia 0 > 6. Iron .1 > 7. kH 6 > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population > still not down. > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end > of my rope with the issue. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

Yes, people have used a piece of shrimp, fish flakes and many other sources of something that when allowed to decay will put out ammonia. It's easier to just use plain ammonia as you can properly measure/dose to get optimal levels of 4-5ppm of ammonia to get the largest nitrifying bacteria colony possible so you can fully stock the tank with juvi fish after the fishless cycle is over. One last note... if you don't have access to plain ammonia (this can be bought at Ace Hardware and many other hardware stores) or you don't want to deal with moldy decaying shrimp or moldy decaying fish flakes, you can always just stand on a step ladder and take a small leak into the tank... one tablespoon per 10G. LOL Yes, human urine will fishless cycle a tank also... and it's free. The hard part is stopping the flow at one tablespoon and it's not as easy for the ladies to do. LOL http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml (7th paragraph talks about all the good stuff in human urine for fishless cycling) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of henry puryear Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) My two cents worth. I personally just let the cycle slowly, but I have heard of folks cycling a tank with a sardines packed in water, others have used other products. Just stuff I have heard and learned over the years. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Dave, Where have you researched all this cycling information that you indicate? I hope the source is not from so-called "authentic" aquarium sites that almost anyone can put up on the 'net as their own "official" web page, as no one doing that need have any indication of correct procedures. I doubt you would find cycling with fish as being recommended in any authoritative book on the hobby. Since you are already aware of fish-less cycling, why would you even consider doing otherwise? As you state, it may "not be really troublesome" to the hobbyist at all, but only in the sense that it won't affect our longevity (although it will require diligent water parameter monitoring and adequate PWC's to maintain life) although I doubt you could say the same for the fish you would put through this. With one fish per 4 gallons as the recommended bioload you are referring to, you would be needing to do an abundance of PWC's to keep them alive; any particular size to these expendable fish? Three inches? Four inches? Yes, Zebra Danio's are recommended by those uncaring or uneducated hobbyists as one of the hardier fish to cycle with, but that doesn't support using fish for this purpose. As for fish-less cycling being more expensive, I can't fathom that comment at all when you can buy a bottle of clear ammonia for the price of just one fish. If the ammonia cost you $1 more, would you still want to sacrifice fish for this, or put them through this stress? If you're thinking of saving pennies, think of it as not having to change any water when doing a fish-less cycle vs. all the PWC's you'll need to do to keep the fish from dying. Ray --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > Ive done alot of reading on cycling a brand new tank before i got my > original 20 gallon setup. Alot of cycling with fish has to do with which > type of fish you use and how many. If i remember the recommended number of > fish was 1 per 4 gallons to cycle a tank properly, and using tetras, and > danio's were good choices as they were stronger fish in general. All but one > of my danio still exists today and he died months after the cycling was over > and i had added my clown loach. It was also my understanding that fishless > cycling was more expensive. > > I do not write this to contradict lenny.It was just my experience that > cycling with fish was not really troublesome, i did nothing special other > than some research before hand. I think his view on fishless cycling is > great, as cycling with fish is very stressful on the little guys even if you > do use a stronger breed like tetras. The other issue you run into, like i > have, is that you may end up having to buy a kind of fish you do not wish to > stock in the tank after the cycle, and you get those little danios swimming > around forever. :) > > Also, just a note on somethin i read while doing research, if you know > someone with a running tank if you can get a hand full of their tank gravel > or an old filter media maybe even, you can use that to boost your bacteria > growth quite a bit and reduce the cycle time by quite a bit. > > Please correct me if i am wrong, i would hate to be spreading bad > information :( > > --Dave > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > wrote: > > > Remember that slowing down the ammonia eating bacteria using zeolite > > will > > only prolong your cycling issues. > > > > You will be starving your ammonia eating bacteria so that colony will > > diminish in size instead of grow. As soon as you remove the zeolite, your > > ammonia level will spike since your N-bacteria colony will not have grown > > large enough to handle the ammonia bioload. The zeolite will also slow down > > or negate the growth of your nitrite eating bacteria as well since there > > won't be as much ammonia to be converted into nitrite so there will be no > > need for more nitrite eaters. > > > > At this point in "Cycling With Fish", the only thing you can really do is > > continue to use salt to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning and do > > PWC's > > as needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down to 1.0ppm or less. > > > > Now you see why we recommend and why I push "Fishless Cycling" so much... > > cycling with fish is really an arduous process on the fish and the fish > > keeper. The difference is that it's only a pain in the butt to us while > > it's deadly to the fish. > > > > I believe you are using Prime as your dechlor so at least your ammonia > > should be in a non-toxic state as a normal ammonia level of 0.25ppm with > > your pH and temp would make the ammonia very toxic. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 PM > > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) > > > > Damn! All that work and still not good enough. I guess I made headway > > > > tank temp 86 > > ph 7,8 > > ammonia - around .25ppm > > nitrites - 2ppm > > > > I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I didn't > > add > > salt back into the water change either because I wanted to add zeolite to > > slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get those nitrite levels > > down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter back and poured some into > > space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a null reading for ammonia I'll > > take that out and see what happens next. Will my nitrites continue to fall, > > or will they go back up? > > We'll see. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 > > 10:45:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 7:32:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 7:44:16 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30996	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you do > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true parameters, > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you are not > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your nitrite > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert nitrite > into nitrate. > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of any > available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters you > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough or > not yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants when giving > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please offer > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are > providing. > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any nitrifying > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend the > cycling period. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > wrote: > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > rid > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > 1. 50% water change > > 2. Clear ease > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > 6. Iron .1 > > 7. kH 6 > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population > > still not down. > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end > > of my rope with the issue. > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? its a grayish cloudiness. i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense there's plants and rocks in the way.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30997	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Its a grayish cloudiness. My nitrate level is .01 sorry for the typo in the original post. my tank been set up for about 7 months. 5 zebra danios 3 neon tetras 1 black neon tetra 5 head and tail tetras 2 cory cats 2 red velvet sword tails 2 sunburst platies 1 rubernose pleco( lost him 3 weeks ago) A 25 to 30% PWC every two to three weeks 1 aqua tech 30-60g with bio fiber bhf I do partial gravel cleaning every month I also add ones a week Sera Florina plant food for the plants I do not use Co2 for fear of pH drops --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What color is the cloud? > > How long has the tank been set up? > > What kind of fish do you have and how many, besides the two clown loaches? > > What is your maintenance routine on your tank... i.e., PWC's (partial water > changes), filter system maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc.? > > Do you have a test for nitrites? Double check your nitrate test as it's > uncommon to have a zero nitrate reading in a cycled tank... even one with > live plants. Besides, zero nitrates isn't good for your plants either since > that is one of the nutrients they eat. > > DO NOT use chemicals like "clear ease". They are bad for your fishes gill > function. In fact, 95% of the chemical fixes sold at pet stores are simply > not needed 95% of the time. There are safer and better alternatives. > > You will have to find a new home for the clown loaches as your tank isn't > large enough for them. They grow to over 12" and should reach 16". They > should be in shoals of five or more. A 6' long, 100G tank would be needed > for long term housing for a shoal. There are smaller loaches that would > have been more suitable but even they should be kept in shoals of five or > more so they would also put a burden on your bioload. > > In the future, when any fish keeper is considering a maintenance fish like > plecos (for algae) or loaches (for snails), make a deal with your LFS so > that you can return them for store credit after they've done their jobs or > start to get too big for your tank. Most good LFS (local fish stores) are > willing to do this as they can sell the larger fish for more money and they > didn't have to spend any time or money growing them out. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid of my > cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > 1. 50% water change > 2. Clear ease > 3. pH is at 6.8 > 4. Nitrate 0 > 5. Ammonia 0 > 6. Iron .1 > 7. kH 6 > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail that are > driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population still not down. > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end of my > rope with the issue. > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 7:29:48 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30998	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Like Ray said, the grayish cloudiness is likely a bacterial bloom... not necessarily a bad bacteria, just something went wrong with your cycling which caused it. It will settle down on it's own. You need to double check your nitrate test. FW Nitrate test kits test in levels of 5ppm so it will be 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. I've never had a SW tank but I understand they do test nitrates at lower levels but still not in the tenths... at least not to my knowledge. My API test card for SW Nitrates still has the ranges marked at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., so maybe I'm mistaken about the nitrate tests for SW being at lower ranges... at least for the API test kit. Have you done any major filter maintenance where you changed out the filter media (cartridge)? Most filter companies instruct the customers to change out the cartridges every 2-4 weeks but doing this will only put a tank into a mini-cycle each time if the only media in the filter system is the single cartridge. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more details. What kind of filter system to you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? its a grayish cloudiness. i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense there's plants and rocks in the way. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you do > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true parameters, it > would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you are not > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your nitrite > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert nitrite > into nitrate. > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to this > problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed nutrients > (have you tested your tap water?). > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of any > available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters you > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough or not > yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of light > you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be adding to > your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this algae can > out-compete any inadequate population of plants when giving them > everything they need. If your water is greenish, please offer any info > you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are providing. > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any nitrifying > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an partially > cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend the cycling > period. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > wrote: > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > rid > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > 1. 50% water change > > 2. Clear ease > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > 6. Iron .1 > > 7. kH 6 > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population > > still not down. > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end > > of my rope with the issue. > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:29:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 30999	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to someone's post its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the first one to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above your reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message and others may not see your reply at all. You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested for this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is next to nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well established and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm and could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do PWC's. Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not that much that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is faulty as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute (small). A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of bacteria as food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial bloom. Most hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, or at least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is no reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be done. You don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get there. For you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a mini- cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are additional waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also suspect of your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know your nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do the surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which might contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you are overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and still might if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for and fish that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous waste if allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you do > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true parameters, > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you are not > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your nitrite > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert nitrite > > into nitrate. > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of any > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters you > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough or > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants when giving > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please offer > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are > > providing. > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any nitrifying > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend the > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > > rid > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > 2. Clear ease > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > 7. kH 6 > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population > > > still not down. > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense > there's plants and rocks in the way. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31000	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water nitrate test kit --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to someone's post > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the first one > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above your > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message and > others may not see your reply at all. > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested for > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is next to > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well established > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm and > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do PWC's. > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not that much > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is faulty > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute (small). > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of bacteria as > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial bloom. Most > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, or at > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is no > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be done. You > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get there. For > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a mini- > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are additional > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also suspect of > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know your > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do the > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which might > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you are > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and still might > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for and fish > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous waste if > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this > is > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo > error, > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and > you do > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > parameters, > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you are > not > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your nitrite > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert > nitrite > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which > will > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just > as > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of > any > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters > you > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough > or > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may > be > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- > this > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants when > giving > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please > offer > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are > > > providing. > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any > nitrifying > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend > the > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to > get > > > rid > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have > snail > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail > population > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at > the end > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31001	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

yes i did change the filter media on Saturday. u know what after examining the test kit its reads 0.005 maybe i have the wrong test. darn it why is it so hard to find a knowledge person in a lfs. Aqua-tech 30 to 60 g bhf --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Like Ray said, the grayish cloudiness is likely a bacterial bloom... not > necessarily a bad bacteria, just something went wrong with your cycling > which caused it. It will settle down on it's own. > > You need to double check your nitrate test. FW Nitrate test kits test in > levels of 5ppm so it will be 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. I've never had a SW > tank but I understand they do test nitrates at lower levels but still not in > the tenths... at least not to my knowledge. My API test card for SW > Nitrates still has the ranges marked at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., so maybe I'm > mistaken about the nitrate tests for SW being at lower ranges... at least > for the API test kit. > > Have you done any major filter maintenance where you changed out the filter > media (cartridge)? Most filter companies instruct the customers to change > out the cartridges every 2-4 weeks but doing this will only put a tank into > a mini-cycle each time if the only media in the filter system is the single > cartridge. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for > more details. > > What kind of filter system to you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:00 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test kit i > have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested the tap > water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 months ago > can that be the problem? > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense there's > plants and rocks in the way. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you do > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true parameters, it > > would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you are not > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your nitrite > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert nitrite > > into nitrate. > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to this > > problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed nutrients > > (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of any > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters you > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough or not > > yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of light > > you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be adding to > > your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this algae can > > out-compete any inadequate population of plants when giving them > > everything they need. If your water is greenish, please offer any info > > you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are providing. > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any nitrifying > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an partially > > cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend the cycling > > period. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > > rid > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > 2. Clear ease > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > 7. kH 6 > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population > > > still not down. > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:29:36 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31002	From: Wendie	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

How often and how much do you feed? What are you feeding? Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: greychildren To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:16 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population still not down. I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end of my rope with the issue. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31003	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Hello everyone. I strongly suggest if you are interested in fish keeping, you look up and see if there are any aquarium or fish clubs in your area. I also recommend that if you enjoy a specific type of fish, you join the national group, trust almost every type of fish or tank has a national group. I am a member of the American Livebearer Association because of my love for livebearers. There are goldfish, koi, discus, angelfish and killifish and more. Your experts will be in those clubs or groups. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help yes i did change the filter media on Saturday. u know what after examining the test kit its reads 0.005 maybe i have the wrong test. darn it why is it so hard to find a knowledge person in a lfs. Aqua-tech 30 to 60 g bhf --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Like Ray said, the grayish cloudiness is likely a bacterial bloom... not > necessarily a bad bacteria, just something went wrong with your cycling > which caused it. It will settle down on it's own. > > You need to double check your nitrate test. FW Nitrate test kits test in > levels of 5ppm so it will be 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. I've never had a SW > tank but I understand they do test nitrates at lower levels but still not in > the tenths... at least not to my knowledge. My API test card for SW > Nitrates still has the ranges marked at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., so maybe I'm > mistaken about the nitrate tests for SW being at lower ranges... at least > for the API test kit. > > Have you done any major filter maintenance where you changed out the filter > media (cartridge)? Most filter companies instruct the customers to change > out the cartridges every 2-4 weeks but doing this will only put a tank into > a mini-cycle each time if the only media in the filter system is the single > cartridge. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for > more details. > > What kind of filter system to you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:00 AM > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test kit i > have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested the tap > water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 months ago > can that be the problem? > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense there's > plants and rocks in the way. > > --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you do > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true parameters, it > > would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you are not > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your nitrite > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert nitrite > > into nitrate. > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to this > > problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed nutrients > > (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of any > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters you > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough or not > > yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of light > > you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be adding to > > your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this algae can > > out-compete any inadequate population of plants when giving them > > everything they need. If your water is greenish, please offer any info > > you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are providing. > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any nitrifying > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an partially > > cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend the cycling > > period. Ray > > > > > > --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > > rid > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > 2. Clear ease > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > 7. kH 6 > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population > > > still not down. > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:29:36 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31004	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

wendiep i feed twice a day, mourning tube worms and flakes in the afternoon --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Wendie <wendieo@...> wrote: > > How often and how much do you feed? What are you feeding? > Wendie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: greychildren > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:16 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > 1. 50% water change > 2. Clear ease > 3. pH is at 6.8 > 4. Nitrate 0 > 5. Ammonia 0 > 6. Iron .1 > 7. kH 6 > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population > still not down. > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

OK. If you changed out the filter cartridge on your filter, that likely put your tank into a mini-cycle that will last for several days to a week. I did a quick Google on the Aqua-tech filter and I see it is similar to a Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheel except some of the things I read said some models do not come with the Bio-Wheel as part of the package. Does yours have a Bio-Wheel (which is a round pleated filter cartridge that spins around like a water-mill from the return water going back into your tank)? If you don't have the Bio-Wheel, it would be a good idea to get one as it will also grow a lot of your good nitrifying bacteria. This does allow you to trash the flimsy filter cartridges that are used on those types of filter systems.... or you could modify your filter cartridge like I did on mine on my Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel. Go to my blog and look at my article "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200" and you'll see photos and narrative on how I clean my filter system and how I did "surgery" on the cartridge to remove the used up carbon but kept the filter to be reused over and over and just cleaning the filter floss pad in removed tank water so you get most of the detritus off of the filter without killing most of the good bacteria that live on the filter floss pad. In another forum, I conducted a poll several years ago and out of hundreds of members who replied less than 10% got good advice from their pet store or LFS employees, on most matters concerning fish keeping. This is why forums and groups like this exist... so you can get real advice from real fish keepers. The average pet store employee or LFS employee knows very little about keeping fish long term. Their experience is in getting in a bunch and selling them as quickly as possible. They price their fish knowing a certain percentage are going to die so they expect a certain number of deaths and it's not a big deal to them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help yes i did change the filter media on Saturday. u know what after examining the test kit its reads 0.005 maybe i have the wrong test. darn it why is it so hard to find a knowledge person in a lfs. Aqua-tech 30 to 60 g bhf --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Like Ray said, the grayish cloudiness is likely a bacterial bloom... > not necessarily a bad bacteria, just something went wrong with your > cycling which caused it. It will settle down on it's own. > > You need to double check your nitrate test. FW Nitrate test kits test in > levels of 5ppm so it will be 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. I've never had a > SW tank but I understand they do test nitrates at lower levels but still not in > the tenths... at least not to my knowledge. My API test card for SW > Nitrates still has the ranges marked at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., so maybe I'm > mistaken about the nitrate tests for SW being at lower ranges... at least > for the API test kit. > > Have you done any major filter maintenance where you changed out the filter > media (cartridge)? Most filter companies instruct the customers to change > out the cartridges every 2-4 weeks but doing this will only put a tank into > a mini-cycle each time if the only media in the filter system is the single > cartridge. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" > for more details. > > What kind of filter system to you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:00 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test kit i > have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested the tap > water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 months ago > can that be the problem? > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense there's > plants and rocks in the way. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you > > do not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > parameters, it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > > you are not getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > nitrite converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > convert nitrite into nitrate. > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of > > any available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters > > you give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough > > or not yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants when > > giving them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please > > offer any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are providing. > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any > > nitrifying bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > > an partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend > > the cycling period. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > > rid > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > 2. Clear ease > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > 7. kH 6 > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail > > > population still not down. > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the > > > end of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 > 8:29:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 9:22:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 9:47:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31006	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Back to api master kits

I've done that. I've tried a number of ideas. I actually often hold any given test result up to a number of surfaces and the window. And I'm far from the only one who can't read some values on some tests in those darned API test kits. With the nitrate test, is the darker color that you only see when you hold the tube up to a paper the color you're supposed to use? Because it is always 5 ppm more than the color you see any other way. Luckily for inorganic phosphates most of what matters is how the tank water compares to tap water; if the phosphates aren't tehre than something that shouldn't be there ate them. I requested gift certificates to Fosters and Smith and Petsmart for my birthday. Turns out I should have asked for more money to Fosters and Smith and one to I think its Marineland, but anyway. I ordered Seachem's phosphates and silicates tests; we'll see how that works. I also ordered phosguard, and an API wide range ph test kit. Is the latter brand new? Last spring I couldn't find API offering such a test and ordered a couple of less accurate ones from elsewhere, and I end up using both the PH test and teh high end ph test to check my values near the low end of one range and the high end of the other. Values between 7.4 and 7.8 are easier to read on the ph test. There isn't one single electronic meter that can test for everything and you dno't have to pay several hundred more bucks for the various test solutions and attachments, is tehre? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:03 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good light. A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make out what I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness of the screen might be throwing the color off. What do you think? At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31007	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Back to api master kits

I haven't even seen this test for sale, Lenny. I couldn't remember the name of teh brand that Steve recommended highly, but doubted that I saw it in my Fosters adn Smith and Marineland catalogs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits Which test are you referring to? Before you resort to high priced electronics, you should get the Kordon AccuTru test kit that \\Steve// recommends highly. Do a search of the group for them and you'll see where I even did some research to find prices around $60.00 for the Kordon Master test kit. Something that is likely affecting your ability to match the coloring is your water color. If I'm not mistaken, didn't you have some green water recently? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good light. A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make out what I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness of the screen might be throwing the color off. What do you think? At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 2:48:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31008	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank

You do file properties and then look up the owner of the IP address it came from. But I just looked at one of my own posts to a Yahoogroup. It does give teh IP address it was sent from but I post to Yahoo groups using my Yahoo e-mail account. If the physical IP address of the computer or the ISP I use to access the Internet is there it isn't clear. Even though I actually phsycially download my Yahoo mail to my Outlook Express, and send from my Outlook Express. (I have a paid subscription to Yahoo mail that lets one do that.) I think I might know who would know, though. I'll ask them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank Now thats a good idea.. But how do u find one's ISP? On 10/5/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Well, Lenny can contact Yahoo about this Jerry guy, but Jerry guy seems > sufficiently technologically competent to get around Yahoo. > > You could always write his ISP, assuming he doesn't simply use teh public > library. You could even contact them. Their terminals aren't to be used > for abuse! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@... <KWELYROOS71%40GMAIL.COM>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all > bacteria in the tank > > Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u know > more about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the shark > scientists i personally know! U are way better than that Jerry guy.. what > a > jerk! > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie > <MargiePhelps@...<MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > >wrote: > > > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > > -- > > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > > w.j.scott@... <w.j.scott%40verizon.net> > > <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: > -------------- > > > > > Hey Guy's > > > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw > stones > > if > > > you live in a glass house. > > > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be > > > polite > > with > > > our on line comments. No > > > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny > > will > > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not spoon, > > > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric system, > > > live > > > > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, it's > you > > who > > > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make calculation, > of > > > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell me > > > you > > > > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important > > to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40live.com> > on aol kwelyroos1971 > google talk kwelyroos71 > ICQ 477496656 > dark.moon.crafts@... <dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> > www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering > www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak > www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31009	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank

I wrote to the owner of teh texbird list who is actually employed at this sort of thing. I realized in mid send that I do know how to find the actual IP address of someone who is spoofing another IP address. Can someone send me the message source on one of this guy's posts that spoofed someone else's e-mail address? In Outlook Express you click file, properties, then details, tehn message source. Copy and paste the whole long thing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank Now thats a good idea.. But how do u find one's ISP? On 10/5/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Well, Lenny can contact Yahoo about this Jerry guy, but Jerry guy seems > sufficiently technologically competent to get around Yahoo. > > You could always write his ISP, assuming he doesn't simply use teh public > library. You could even contact them. Their terminals aren't to be used > for abuse! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@... <KWELYROOS71%40GMAIL.COM>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all > bacteria in the tank > > Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u know > more about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the shark > scientists i personally know! U are way better than that Jerry guy.. what > a > jerk! > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie > <MargiePhelps@...<MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > >wrote: > > > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > > -- > > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > > w.j.scott@... <w.j.scott%40verizon.net> > > <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: > -------------- > > > > > Hey Guy's > > > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw > stones > > if > > > you live in a glass house. > > > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be > > > polite > > with > > > our on line comments. No > > > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny > > will > > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not spoon, > > > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric system, > > > live > > > > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, it's > you > > who > > > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make calculation, > of > > > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell me > > > you > > > > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important > > to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40live.com> > on aol kwelyroos1971 > google talk kwelyroos71 > ICQ 477496656 > dark.moon.crafts@... <dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> > www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering > www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak > www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31010	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

First thing I notice is that you didn't test for nitrites, which could conceivably be sky high. That's an intermediate step between ammonia and nitrates. What happened when you did the gravel clean, and how thoroughly did you clean? Did you dig into the gravel, and did you find that you stirred up alot of stuff and teh cloudiness got worse or alot of stuff was floating around? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "greychildren" <greychildren@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:16 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population still not down. I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end of my rope with the issue. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31011	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

That's right, unless either something grew and ate the nitrates, like algae, or no nitrates have been produced and she'd be looking at a high nitrite level. I know we all immediately thought of the second possibility. Now she did specify in the subject line that the color of the cloudy water is white. I would think that that's more consistent with the high nitrite situation. I use clumping chemicals, but only after I diagnose and deal with what's causnig it! Lenny does not like this. Kent products work best, possibly with least damage to fish gills. Not that I've ever seen fish with clogged gills. I actually have only had cloudy water after cleaning gravel; if you do it right and teh gravel has alot of decaying stuff in it you'll stir up alot. Also be sure your filter is not clogged, adn rinse it the day after you use any product to clump small matter in teh water. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:29 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help What color is the cloud? Do you have a test for nitrites? Double check your nitrate test as it's uncommon to have a zero nitrate reading in a cycled tank... even one with live plants. Besides, zero nitrates isn't good for your plants either since that is one of the nutrients they eat.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31012	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ozone and fish

In my opinion, they're worth a major asthma flare. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:16 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ozone and fish I've seen ozone generators for aquariums. I know a few things about ozone. 1. I creates nitrates, kills molds and bacteria, reacts with water to create hydrogen peroxide, and destroys algae. Are they worth the money? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31013	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Henry, While I don't know about all of the other fish societies, the various Goldfish Societies that I've come across over the years still have goldfish care sheets stuck in the dark ages... well maybe not the dark ages but 10-20 years old. Many of them still only recommend 10G per goldfish or less, which is far too little water volume for fish that get BIG like goldfish. Goldfish have similar body mass to Oscars and cichlid keepers will tell you that an Oscar can barely make it in a 55G by itself. My Goldfish Care Sheet has a 55G, 4' tank as the minimum tank size for two fancy goldfish and even then, I state that this tank will need at least weekly maintenance. Here's a snip from Bristol Aquarists' Society which is a very good website other than their care sheet concerning tank size recommendation. http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/aquacalc.htm (START SNIP) For example, in a 60 x 30 cm (24 x 12 inch) tank you can keep a total of 30 cm (12 inches) of combined fish body length, such as three 10 cm-long fishes (three fish each 4 inches long), or two 15 cm-long fishes (two fish each 6 inches long). (END SNIP) So they are saying that in a 24 x 12 tank, which is around a 20G tank, you could have three 4" or two 6" goldfish. I'm sorry but that is a recipe for disaster. The problem lies when they came up with these guidelines, many people were still thinking a goldfish bowl was acceptable so their guidelines of 10G per goldfish or less was a HUGE jump up from what so many people considered acceptable. But now, they don't want to admit that their 10G or less guidelines were dramatically underestimated as well. These groups simply do not want to update their care sheets as they would then be admitting they had been giving out bad advice for so many years. All of the other Goldfish Societies around the world have copied each other to some degree so none of them want to rock the boat by admitting they were all giving out bad advice. I've had countless forum debates with principals in these groups, to no avail, even though they admit the math simply doesn't add up for their recommended small tank sizes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of henry puryear Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Hello everyone. I strongly suggest if you are interested in fish keeping, you look up and see if there are any aquarium or fish clubs in your area. I also recommend that if you enjoy a specific type of fish, you join the national group, trust almost every type of fish or tank has a national group. I am a member of the American Livebearer Association because of my love for livebearers. There are goldfish, koi, discus, angelfish and killifish and more. Your experts will be in those clubs or groups. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help yes i did change the filter media on Saturday. u know what after examining the test kit its reads 0.005 maybe i have the wrong test. darn it why is it so hard to find a knowledge person in a lfs. Aqua-tech 30 to 60 g bhf --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Like Ray said, the grayish cloudiness is likely a bacterial bloom... > not necessarily a bad bacteria, just something went wrong with your > cycling which caused it. It will settle down on it's own. > > You need to double check your nitrate test. FW Nitrate test kits test in > levels of 5ppm so it will be 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. I've never had a > SW tank but I understand they do test nitrates at lower levels but still not in > the tenths... at least not to my knowledge. My API test card for SW > Nitrates still has the ranges marked at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., so maybe I'm > mistaken about the nitrate tests for SW being at lower ranges... at least > for the API test kit. > > Have you done any major filter maintenance where you changed out the filter > media (cartridge)? Most filter companies instruct the customers to change > out the cartridges every 2-4 weeks but doing this will only put a tank into > a mini-cycle each time if the only media in the filter system is the single > cartridge. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" > for more details. > > What kind of filter system to you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:00 AM > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test kit i > have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested the tap > water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 months ago > can that be the problem? > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense there's > plants and rocks in the way. > > --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you > > do not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > parameters, it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > > you are not getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > nitrite converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > convert nitrite into nitrate. > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of > > any available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters > > you give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough > > or not yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants when > > giving them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please > > offer any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are providing. > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any > > nitrifying bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > > an partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend > > the cycling period. Ray > > > > > > --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > > rid > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > 2. Clear ease > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > 7. kH 6 > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail > > > population still not down. > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the > > > end of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 > 8:29:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 9:49:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 10:20:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31014	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Run out and get a nitrite test; part fo the basic testing of your tank, and let us know the results. Even in a cycled tank a variety of things can knock off the chemistry, from a fish dying where you don't know about it, to a decaying plant, to something about how you cleaned teh tank or the filter, to a number of tank additives, especially those used to treat disease. If the nitrite level is 0 and the nitrate level is close to it, and the tank has been in use 7 months, then I'd say that no matter whether teh cloudiness is gray or green, something is consuming the nitrates in the tank. Do you have live plants? I think that would do it. Otherwise you're looking at algae, whether you can see them yet or not. Some algae aren't green, and some on these lists and elsewhere would argue that they aren't algae, though Wikipedia classifies them that way. The cyanobacteria and the diatoms, among others. I had an invasion of the diatoms, which is common in tanks the age of yours - and besides finding brown stuff covering surfaces of your tank and looking at it under a high quality high power microscope, you can diagnose them by testing your phosphate and/or silicate levels against those of your tap water. Diatoms will also consume phosphates and silicates. Phosphates are both produced in the tank and found in some tap water, and the tests only test what's in the tap water. But the day after I found brown stuff all oevr the tank the nitrate adn phosphate levels in my tank were both zero, though the phospate level of my tap water is fairly high. Aquarium plants also eat phosphates. But don't think they eat silicates because unlike diatoms, they aren't made of glass. You mention plants, but unclaer if they're live plants or plastic ones. It would be useful if someone would explain how to clean the gravel underneath plants; because you really do have to clean the lower levels of gravel regularly. Unless there simply isn't very much, anaerobic bacteria live in it and eventually pockets of toxic gas will build up. I clean underneath everything once a week, and then put the plastic plants back. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? its a grayish cloudiness. i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense there's plants and rocks in the way.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31015	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Depends on the fish store. I've gotten some interesting statements from the girls at Petsmart, and yesterday one of them got irritated when I didn't believe her. Trying to remember exactly what we were discussing... aside from I wanted a specific product they didn't have. there was also the time I got told that a glass catfish is the same thing as a pristella tetra. The test kit should be labelled what test it is, and the reagent bottle and the directions should both be labelled as well. I don't know anything about the specific brand of test you are using so can't help there. Most of us use API. Not the cheapest but pretty accurate, adn most important, if you post a value the rest of us know what you're talking about. You can save some money by buying the master test kit instead of each test individually. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "greychildren" <greychildren@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help yes i did change the filter media on Saturday. u know what after examining the test kit its reads 0.005 maybe i have the wrong test. darn it why is it so hard to find a knowledge person in a lfs. Aqua-tech 30 to 60 g bhf --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Like Ray said, the grayish cloudiness is likely a bacterial bloom... not > necessarily a bad bacteria, just something went wrong with your cycling > which caused it. It will settle down on it's own. > > You need to double check your nitrate test. FW Nitrate test kits test in > levels of 5ppm so it will be 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. I've never had a SW > tank but I understand they do test nitrates at lower levels but still not in > the tenths... at least not to my knowledge. My API test card for SW > Nitrates still has the ranges marked at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., so maybe I'm > mistaken about the nitrate tests for SW being at lower ranges... at least > for the API test kit. > > Have you done any major filter maintenance where you changed out the filter > media (cartridge)? Most filter companies instruct the customers to change > out the cartridges every 2-4 weeks but doing this will only put a tank into > a mini-cycle each time if the only media in the filter system is the single > cartridge. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for > more details. > > What kind of filter system to you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:00 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test kit i > have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested the tap > water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 months ago > can that be the problem? > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense there's > plants and rocks in the way. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you do > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true parameters, it > > would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you are not > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your nitrite > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert nitrite > > into nitrate. > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to this > > problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed nutrients > > (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of any > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters you > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough or not > > yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of light > > you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be adding to > > your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this algae can > > out-compete any inadequate population of plants when giving them > > everything they need. If your water is greenish, please offer any info > > you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are providing. > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any nitrifying > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an partially > > cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend the cycling > > period. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > > rid > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > 2. Clear ease > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > 7. kH 6 > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population > > > still not down. > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:29:36 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31016	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

It matters how much. ;) Also, I've had trouble feeding dried tube worms; they're powdery and leave alot of waste. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "greychildren" <greychildren@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help wendiep i feed twice a day, mourning tube worms and flakes in the afternoon --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Wendie <wendieo@...> wrote: > > How often and how much do you feed? What are you feeding? > Wendie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: greychildren > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:16 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > 1. 50% water change > 2. Clear ease > 3. pH is at 6.8 > 4. Nitrate 0 > 5. Ammonia 0 > 6. Iron .1 > 7. kH 6 > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population > still not down. > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31017	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

It also helps to add redundant filtering capacity to your filter. I have the original beginner's tank does best with overfiltering. I have two 10 to 20 gallon Penguin/ Marineland filters on my 20 gallon aquarium. In addition to the biowheel and the cartridges, I have an extra layer of polyfilter, and a bag of little nanoballs, in each. I change out the extra layer of polyfilter more often than the cartridge, and it usually is not necessary to chagne everything at once. That way the bacteria in what you didn't change survive to keep your cycle going. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:47 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help OK. If you changed out the filter cartridge on your filter, that likely put your tank into a mini-cycle that will last for several days to a week. I did a quick Google on the Aqua-tech filter and I see it is similar to a Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheel except some of the things I read said some models do not come with the Bio-Wheel as part of the package. Does yours have a Bio-Wheel (which is a round pleated filter cartridge that spins around like a water-mill from the return water going back into your tank)? If you don't have the Bio-Wheel, it would be a good idea to get one as it will also grow a lot of your good nitrifying bacteria. This does allow you to trash the flimsy filter cartridges that are used on those types of filter systems.... or you could modify your filter cartridge like I did on mine on my Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel. Go to my blog and look at my article "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200" and you'll see photos and narrative on how I clean my filter system and how I did "surgery" on the cartridge to remove the used up carbon but kept the filter to be reused over and over and just cleaning the filter floss pad in removed tank water so you get most of the detritus off of the filter without killing most of the good bacteria that live on the filter floss pad. In another forum, I conducted a poll several years ago and out of hundreds of members who replied less than 10% got good advice from their pet store or LFS employees, on most matters concerning fish keeping. This is why forums and groups like this exist... so you can get real advice from real fish keepers. The average pet store employee or LFS employee knows very little about keeping fish long term. Their experience is in getting in a bunch and selling them as quickly as possible. They price their fish knowing a certain percentage are going to die so they expect a certain number of deaths and it's not a big deal to them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help yes i did change the filter media on Saturday. u know what after examining the test kit its reads 0.005 maybe i have the wrong test. darn it why is it so hard to find a knowledge person in a lfs. Aqua-tech 30 to 60 g bhf --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Like Ray said, the grayish cloudiness is likely a bacterial bloom... > not necessarily a bad bacteria, just something went wrong with your > cycling which caused it. It will settle down on it's own. > > You need to double check your nitrate test. FW Nitrate test kits test in > levels of 5ppm so it will be 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. I've never had a > SW tank but I understand they do test nitrates at lower levels but still not in > the tenths... at least not to my knowledge. My API test card for SW > Nitrates still has the ranges marked at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., so maybe I'm > mistaken about the nitrate tests for SW being at lower ranges... at least > for the API test kit. > > Have you done any major filter maintenance where you changed out the filter > media (cartridge)? Most filter companies instruct the customers to change > out the cartridges every 2-4 weeks but doing this will only put a tank into > a mini-cycle each time if the only media in the filter system is the single > cartridge. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" > for more details. > > What kind of filter system to you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:00 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test kit i > have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested the tap > water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 months ago > can that be the problem? > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense there's > plants and rocks in the way. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you > > do not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > parameters, it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > > you are not getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > nitrite converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > convert nitrite into nitrate. > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of > > any available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters > > you give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough > > or not yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants when > > giving them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please > > offer any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are providing. > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any > > nitrifying bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > > an partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend > > the cycling period. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > > rid > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > 2. Clear ease > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > 7. kH 6 > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail > > > population still not down. > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the > > > end of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 > 8:29:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 9:22:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 9:47:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31018	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress

I can see I'm going to be working on changing out the gravel. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "hank voss" <aatetras@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:25 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: Dora: Light colored gravel tends to wash out the color on most fish especially if you have strong light on the tank.Plants help neutralize this problem.I have mine over brown gravel(looks more like a river bottom)and few plants. Hank =========================================== > Light colored gravel. There's my problem. But is the problem that tehy > don't like light colored gravel, or that is washes out their coloring? > > What is the best colornig for them? (Not getting black.) The neutral > earth tones I actually prefer would render teh fish invisible. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "hank voss" <aatetras@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:08 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, flohk13@ wrote: > > Flohk: > Im getting into this thread a little late but here"s my point of > view.To really ID them you need a more detailed pict.There are > several tetras that look quite similiar to them.A maxillaris in good > condition and a good strain will have yellow/gold-black-white (in > that order)in their dorsal and anal fins.Ive never seen orange.Caudal > fin can bee varying shades of red.The gold color can sometimes extend > into the body also. > The sexes look the same but he color is more intense in the > male and he is slimmer bellied,he also has a hook onhis anal fish > which wiil catch in a fine net.Their color can also fade in a tank > that is too bright or light colored gravel/or no plants.They are not > really a schooling fish but as Ray pointed out in a big tank they > then tend to stay in a group. > > Regards Hank > --------------------------------------------- > > > > Thanks! Yeah, both of them have a very distinct band of orange in > the dorsal fin (its more distinct than the picture let's on), but do > not have any coloration on either the tail or anal fin, or on their > bodies in general. They both have the exact same coloration, but > perhaps they are related. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:28 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery Tetra, Fading Colors and Stress > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just took a look at your pics and I see yours do not have the > color bands > > on the anal fins either. Here's another link off of Fishbase with > four > > pictures of Pristella's and you'll see where one of them is just > like yours > > with the silvery tail and no bands on the anal fin. I haven't > found where > > this is a way to distinguish sex so it could just be a color > variation due > > to inbreeding. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31019	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: white clouds anyone?

Mostly because they need cold water. They won't do for me because in my semitropical climate I'd need to air condition teh tank! They also won't go with most other fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:33 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] white clouds anyone? Hey, doesn't anyone still like white clouds? They are a pretty fish and considered, "cold water". They even come in the long fin type now, they quite pretty schooling. Gold fish are nice, but putting three in a 45 gallon is pushing it, You should come by my house, I have several dozen goldfish that are very large, plus about a dozen koi that are longer than my arm, they are all in a half acre pond, they are beautiful to watch and are pigs when they are fed every afternoon. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Hi Lisa, Check out the article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" on my blog for lots of options. There aren't a lot of cold/cool water fish that will work in a 10G since they are either big fish (like Goldfish) or even the smaller cool/cold water fish like Zebra Danios and WCMM's really should be in something bigger than a 10G since they are such big swimmers... but there are plenty of tropical fish options. Here's a list of common cool/cold water fish... many that people think may be tropical fish. HYPERLINK "http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm"http://freshaq uarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:19 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Okay. So here's the deal. I'm looking at a ten gal tank set up. It comes with everything except the plastic plants, heater and the actual fish. So my question would be. One, For a cold water set up. What could I put in a community tank? And two, For a heated tank. What community fish are compatible? This will be my first time keeping a tank of this size. But I'm no stranger to fish keeping. Thanks. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 9:51:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31020	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Quarantine Tank

I have been given a tank over the weekend which I want to set up as quarantine tank for my marine fish. The tank is a Juwel with the filter box in the back corner, measurements 60 x 40 x 30cm approx 60lt. I have read that the basics for a quarantine tank are some LR, a sponge filter and a powerhead, what I would like to know is if this Juwel tank filter is sufficient with the live rock and powerhead? Also, I am not sure what size the filter is and need new media for it, does anyone have one this size that can help with media sizes and what is needed? ie, carbon etc Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31021	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Back to api master kits

The water was green. The water cleared up on its own so i'm thinking that it was just debris. In reguard to testing equipment, that will be a future purchase, but would rather have something other than color charts, and a digital display would be easier than trying to figure out which shade the vile is.. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 3:48:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits Which test are you referring to? Before you resort to high priced electronics, you should get the Kordon AccuTru test kit that \\Steve// recommends highly. Do a search of the group for them and you'll see where I even did some research to find prices around $60.00 for the Kordon Master test kit. Something that is likely affecting your ability to match the coloring is your water color. If I'm not mistaken, didn't you have some green water recently? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good light. A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make out what I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness of the screen might be throwing the color off. What do you think? At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 2:48:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31022	From: Margie	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Just make sure ALL the test strips are in the kit. And it is so easy to use and very clear readings, at least for me it has been. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>: -------------- > Depends on the fish store. > > I've gotten some interesting statements from the girls at Petsmart, and > yesterday one of them got irritated when I didn't believe her. Trying to > remember exactly what we were discussing... aside from I wanted a specific > product they didn't have. there was also the time I got told that a glass > catfish is the same thing as a pristella tetra. > > The test kit should be labelled what test it is, and the reagent bottle and > the directions should both be labelled as well. > > I don't know anything about the specific brand of test you are using so > can't help there. Most of us use API. Not the cheapest but pretty > accurate, adn most important, if you post a value the rest of us know what > you're talking about. You can save some money by buying the master test > kit instead of each test individually. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "greychildren" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:13 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > yes i did change the filter media on Saturday. u know what after > examining the test kit its reads 0.005 maybe i have the wrong test. > darn it why is it so hard to find a knowledge person in a lfs. > > Aqua-tech 30 to 60 g bhf > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > wrote: > > > > Like Ray said, the grayish cloudiness is likely a bacterial bloom... not > > necessarily a bad bacteria, just something went wrong with your cycling > > which caused it. It will settle down on it's own. > > > > You need to double check your nitrate test. FW Nitrate test kits > test in > > levels of 5ppm so it will be 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. I've never had a SW > > tank but I understand they do test nitrates at lower levels but > still not in > > the tenths... at least not to my knowledge. My API test card for SW > > Nitrates still has the ranges marked at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., so > maybe I'm > > mistaken about the nitrate tests for SW being at lower ranges... at > least > > for the API test kit. > > > > Have you done any major filter maintenance where you changed out the > filter > > media (cartridge)? Most filter companies instruct the customers to > change > > out the cartridges every 2-4 weeks but doing this will only put a > tank into > > a mini-cycle each time if the only media in the filter system is the > single > > cartridge. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for > > more details. > > > > What kind of filter system to you have? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:00 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test > kit i > > have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested > the tap > > water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 > months ago > > can that be the problem? > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense > there's > > plants and rocks in the way. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > , > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > wrote: > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you do > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true parameters, it > > > would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you are not > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your nitrite > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert nitrite > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to this > > > problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed nutrients > > > (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of any > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters you > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough or not > > > yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of light > > > you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be adding to > > > your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this algae can > > > out-compete any inadequate population of plants when giving them > > > everything they need. If your water is greenish, please offer any info > > > you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are providing. > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any nitrifying > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an partially > > > cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend the cycling > > > period. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > , "greychildren" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > > > rid > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > > Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:29:36 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31023	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

i have live plants. i also been noticing i have to remove more decaying parts of the plants lately.i have 4 small 1 large amazon sword, also 2 java fern and 2,palms and several thin long stem plants that were given to me by a friend don't know there name.( sorry new to the hobby) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Run out and get a nitrite test; part fo the basic testing of your tank, and > let us know the results. > > Even in a cycled tank a variety of things can knock off the chemistry, from > a fish dying where you don't know about it, to a decaying plant, to > something about how you cleaned teh tank or the filter, to a number of tank > additives, especially those used to treat disease. > > If the nitrite level is 0 and the nitrate level is close to it, and the tank > has been in use 7 months, then I'd say that no matter whether teh cloudiness > is gray or green, something is consuming the nitrates in the tank. > > Do you have live plants? I think that would do it. > > Otherwise you're looking at algae, whether you can see them yet or not. > Some algae aren't green, and some on these lists and elsewhere would argue > that they aren't algae, though Wikipedia classifies them that way. The > cyanobacteria and the diatoms, among others. I had an invasion of the > diatoms, which is common in tanks the age of yours - and besides finding > brown stuff covering surfaces of your tank and looking at it under a high > quality high power microscope, you can diagnose them by testing your > phosphate and/or silicate levels against those of your tap water. Diatoms > will also consume phosphates and silicates. Phosphates are both produced > in the tank and found in some tap water, and the tests only test what's in > the tap water. But the day after I found brown stuff all oevr the tank the > nitrate adn phosphate levels in my tank were both zero, though the phospate > level of my tap water is fairly high. > > Aquarium plants also eat phosphates. But don't think they eat silicates > because unlike diatoms, they aren't made of glass. > > You mention plants, but unclaer if they're live plants or plastic ones. > > It would be useful if someone would explain how to clean the gravel > underneath plants; because you really do have to clean the lower levels of > gravel regularly. Unless there simply isn't very much, anaerobic bacteria > live in it and eventually pockets of toxic gas will build up. I clean > underneath everything once a week, and then put the plastic plants back. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense > there's plants and rocks in the way. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31024	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I realize i am perhaps not proper in some of my practices. As i mentioned to the comments to the mods, i am here to learn, and wanted to let my experiences be known for my tank(s). Based on what i remember reading, they made it sound much more troublesome to fishless cycle than its made out to be here. I will no longer be using fish to cycle my tank seing as it is safer and in some cases faster. I did monitor my tanks levels and i made frequent 25% water changes during the cycling of my 20 gallon tank. I followed the information i had, which unfortunatly i cannot find again as i never bookmarked it i guess. I would just like to make a comment for the record... I do not harm any sort of animals on purpose, i try to be a caring individual and i care for my pets to the best of my understanding of how they should be cared for. On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:44 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > Yes, people have used a piece of shrimp, fish flakes and many other > sources > of something that when allowed to decay will put out ammonia. It's easier > to just use plain ammonia as you can properly measure/dose to get optimal > levels of 4-5ppm of ammonia to get the largest nitrifying bacteria colony > possible so you can fully stock the tank with juvi fish after the fishless > cycle is over. > > One last note... if you don't have access to plain ammonia (this can be > bought at Ace Hardware and many other hardware stores) or you don't want to > deal with moldy decaying shrimp or moldy decaying fish flakes, you can > always just stand on a step ladder and take a small leak into the tank... > one tablespoon per 10G. LOL Yes, human urine will fishless cycle a tank > also... and it's free. The hard part is stopping the flow at one tablespoon > and it's not as easy for the ladies to do. LOL > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml (7th > paragraph talks about all the good stuff in human urine for fishless > cycling) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of henry puryear > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) > > My two cents worth. I personally just let the cycle slowly, but I have > heard > of folks cycling a tank with a sardines packed in water, others have used > other products. Just stuff I have heard and learned over the years. > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> ] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) > > Dave, Where have you researched all this cycling information that you > indicate? I hope the source is not from so-called "authentic" > aquarium sites that almost anyone can put up on the 'net as their own > "official" web page, as no one doing that need have any indication of > correct procedures. I doubt you would find cycling with fish as being > recommended in any authoritative book on the hobby. > > Since you are already aware of fish-less cycling, why would you even > consider doing otherwise? As you state, it may "not be really troublesome" > to the hobbyist at all, but only in the sense that it won't affect our > longevity (although it will require diligent water parameter monitoring and > adequate PWC's to maintain life) although I doubt you could say the same > for > the fish you would put through this. > > With one fish per 4 gallons as the recommended bioload you are referring > to, > you would be needing to do an abundance of PWC's to keep them alive; any > particular size to these expendable fish? Three inches? Four inches? Yes, > Zebra Danio's are recommended by those uncaring or uneducated hobbyists as > one of the hardier fish to cycle with, but that doesn't support using fish > for this purpose. > > As for fish-less cycling being more expensive, I can't fathom that comment > at all when you can buy a bottle of clear ammonia for the price of just one > fish. If the ammonia cost you $1 more, would you still want to sacrifice > fish for this, or put them through this stress? If you're thinking of > saving > pennies, think of it as not having to change any water when doing a > fish-less cycle vs. all the PWC's you'll need to do to keep the fish from > dying. Ray > > --- In HYPERLINK > "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>" > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> , > "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> > > wrote: > > > > Ive done alot of reading on cycling a brand new tank before i got my > > original 20 gallon setup. Alot of cycling with fish has to do with > which > > type of fish you use and how many. If i remember the recommended > number of > > fish was 1 per 4 gallons to cycle a tank properly, and using > tetras, and > > danio's were good choices as they were stronger fish in general. > All but one > > of my danio still exists today and he died months after the cycling > was over > > and i had added my clown loach. It was also my understanding that > fishless > > cycling was more expensive. > > > > I do not write this to contradict lenny.It was just my experience > that > > cycling with fish was not really troublesome, i did nothing special > other > > than some research before hand. I think his view on fishless > cycling is > > great, as cycling with fish is very stressful on the little guys > even if you > > do use a stronger breed like tetras. The other issue you run into, > like i > > have, is that you may end up having to buy a kind of fish you do > not wish to > > stock in the tank after the cycle, and you get those little danios > swimming > > around forever. :) > > > > Also, just a note on somethin i read while doing research, if you > know > > someone with a running tank if you can get a hand full of their > tank gravel > > or an old filter media maybe even, you can use that to boost your > bacteria > > growth quite a bit and reduce the cycle time by quite a bit. > > > > Please correct me if i am wrong, i would hate to be spreading bad > > information :( > > > > --Dave > > > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > wrote: > > > > > Remember that slowing down the ammonia eating bacteria using > zeolite > > > will > > > only prolong your cycling issues. > > > > > > You will be starving your ammonia eating bacteria so that colony > will > > > diminish in size instead of grow. As soon as you remove the > zeolite, your > > > ammonia level will spike since your N-bacteria colony will not > have grown > > > large enough to handle the ammonia bioload. The zeolite will also > slow down > > > or negate the growth of your nitrite eating bacteria as well > since there > > > won't be as much ammonia to be converted into nitrite so there > will be no > > > need for more nitrite eaters. > > > > > > At this point in "Cycling With Fish", the only thing you can > really do is > > > continue to use salt to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning > and do > > > PWC's > > > as needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down to 1.0ppm or less. > > > > > > Now you see why we recommend and why I push "Fishless Cycling" so > much... > > > cycling with fish is really an arduous process on the fish and > the fish > > > keeper. The difference is that it's only a pain in the butt to us > while > > > it's deadly to the fish. > > > > > > I believe you are using Prime as your dechlor so at least your > ammonia > > > should be in a non-toxic state as a normal ammonia level of > 0.25ppm with > > > your pH and temp would make the ammonia very toxic. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - HYPERLINK > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: HYPERLINK > "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>" > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: > > > HYPERLINK > "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>" > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Chris > > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 PM > > > To: HYPERLINK > "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>" > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) > > > > > > Damn! All that work and still not good enough. I guess I made > headway > > > > > > tank temp 86 > > > ph 7,8 > > > ammonia - around .25ppm > > > nitrites - 2ppm > > > > > > I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I > didn't > > > add > > > salt back into the water change either because I wanted to add > zeolite to > > > slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get those > nitrite levels > > > down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter back and poured > some into > > > space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a null reading for > ammonia I'll > > > take that out and see what happens next. Will my nitrites > continue to fall, > > > or will they go back up? > > > We'll see. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com > > > <http://www.avast.com> "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/6/2008 > > > 10:45:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 > 6:56 AM > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 > 6:56 AM > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 7:32:05 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 7:44:16 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31025	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Hello Lenny, not familiar with the any national goldfish groups, but in a nearby city there is an active goldfish and pond fish society. HYPERLINK "http://fins.actwin.com/dir/clubs.php?c=1"http://fins.actwin.com/dir/clubs.p hp?c=1 HYPERLINK "http://fins.actwin.com/dir/clubs.php?c=1&r=52"http://fins.actwin.com/dir/cl ubs.php?c=1&r=52 http://fins.actwin.com/ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Henry, While I don't know about all of the other fish societies, the various Goldfish Societies that I've come across over the years still have goldfish care sheets stuck in the dark ages... well maybe not the dark ages but 10-20 years old. Many of them still only recommend 10G per goldfish or less, which is far too little water volume for fish that get BIG like goldfish. Goldfish have similar body mass to Oscars and cichlid keepers will tell you that an Oscar can barely make it in a 55G by itself. My Goldfish Care Sheet has a 55G, 4' tank as the minimum tank size for two fancy goldfish and even then, I state that this tank will need at least weekly maintenance. Here's a snip from Bristol Aquarists' Society which is a very good website other than their care sheet concerning tank size recommendation. HYPERLINK "http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/aquacalc.htm"http://www.b ristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/aquacalc.htm (START SNIP) For example, in a 60 x 30 cm (24 x 12 inch) tank you can keep a total of 30 cm (12 inches) of combined fish body length, such as three 10 cm-long fishes (three fish each 4 inches long), or two 15 cm-long fishes (two fish each 6 inches long). (END SNIP) So they are saying that in a 24 x 12 tank, which is around a 20G tank, you could have three 4" or two 6" goldfish. I'm sorry but that is a recipe for disaster. The problem lies when they came up with these guidelines, many people were still thinking a goldfish bowl was acceptable so their guidelines of 10G per goldfish or less was a HUGE jump up from what so many people considered acceptable. But now, they don't want to admit that their 10G or less guidelines were dramatically underestimated as well. These groups simply do not want to update their care sheets as they would then be admitting they had been giving out bad advice for so many years. All of the other Goldfish Societies around the world have copied each other to some degree so none of them want to rock the boat by admitting they were all giving out bad advice. I've had countless forum debates with principals in these groups, to no avail, even though they admit the math simply doesn't add up for their recommended small tank sizes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of henry puryear Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:40 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Hello everyone. I strongly suggest if you are interested in fish keeping, you look up and see if there are any aquarium or fish clubs in your area. I also recommend that if you enjoy a specific type of fish, you join the national group, trust almost every type of fish or tank has a national group. I am a member of the American Livebearer Association because of my love for livebearers. There are goldfish, koi, discus, angelfish and killifish and more. Your experts will be in those clubs or groups. From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:13 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help yes i did change the filter media on Saturday. u know what after examining the test kit its reads 0.005 maybe i have the wrong test. darn it why is it so hard to find a knowledge person in a lfs. Aqua-tech 30 to 60 g bhf --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Like Ray said, the grayish cloudiness is likely a bacterial bloom... > not necessarily a bad bacteria, just something went wrong with your > cycling which caused it. It will settle down on it's own. > > You need to double check your nitrate test. FW Nitrate test kits test in > levels of 5ppm so it will be 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. I've never had a > SW tank but I understand they do test nitrates at lower levels but still not in > the tenths... at least not to my knowledge. My API test card for SW > Nitrates still has the ranges marked at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., so maybe I'm > mistaken about the nitrate tests for SW being at lower ranges... at least > for the API test kit. > > Have you done any major filter maintenance where you changed out the filter > media (cartridge)? Most filter companies instruct the customers to change > out the cartridges every 2-4 weeks but doing this will only put a tank into > a mini-cycle each time if the only media in the filter system is the single > cartridge. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" > for more details. > > What kind of filter system to you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:00 AM > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test kit i > have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not tested the tap > water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay pot about 2 months ago > can that be the problem? > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense there's > plants and rocks in the way. > > --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this is > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo error, > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and you > > do not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > parameters, it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > > you are not getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > nitrite converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > convert nitrite into nitrate. > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which will > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just as > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of > > any available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters > > you give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough > > or not yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may be > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- this > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants when > > giving them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please > > offer any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are providing. > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any > > nitrifying bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > > an partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend > > the cycling period. Ray > > > > > > --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get > > rid > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > 2. Clear ease > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > 7. kH 6 > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail > > > population still not down. > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the > > > end of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> "HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 > 8:29:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 9:49:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 10:20:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31026	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: white clouds anyone

I actually have last count six of them in with some goldfish and koi outside. We originally got them to control the misquitos in the bog of pond as it has a water in it. I was feeding the first in the main pond and moved the floating plants to feed the 'children' and a white cloud swam by. Now some of my koi are not HUGE but decent size for their age and they have not bothered these little guys. Rick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31027	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank

I can't help you much with SW since I've never kept them but... You might want to remove that internal filter from the Juwel. You can do this by using a razor to cut the silicone that holds the plastic to the glass on the side and back. Those filters have a propensity to hold a LOT of mulm/detritus down in the crevices between the filter and the glass on the back and side. In another forum thread a while back, it took several of us quite a while to figure out what was causing the water quality and fish health issues in a tank and after working with the member for quite a while, it came down to it being a large amount of mulm/detritus down in the nooks and crannies of that built-in internal filter. When the member finally did the surgery to remove the filter box, the water was completely clouded out in a dingy brown/green color just from the detritus/mulm hidden in that filter box. Here is one page of the 18 page thread with many of us trying to help this member figure out their water quality and goldfish health problems. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=84264 The tanks are nice looking except for that internal filter issue. The member in that thread did away with the internal filter and went with an external canister but for a SW tank you may need more advanced filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank I have been given a tank over the weekend which I want to set up as quarantine tank for my marine fish. The tank is a Juwel with the filter box in the back corner, measurements 60 x 40 x 30cm approx 60lt. I have read that the basics for a quarantine tank are some LR, a sponge filter and a powerhead, what I would like to know is if this Juwel tank filter is sufficient with the live rock and powerhead? Also, I am not sure what size the filter is and need new media for it, does anyone have one this size that can help with media sizes and what is needed? ie, carbon etc Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 11:21:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31028	From: greychildren	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

correction "palm" are Dracaena sanderiana non aquarium plants but sold as aquarium plants --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > i have live plants. i also been noticing i have to remove more > decaying parts of the plants lately.i have 4 small 1 large amazon > sword, also 2 java fern and 2,palms and several thin long stem plants > that were given to me by a friend don't know there name.( sorry new to > the hobby) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > Run out and get a nitrite test; part fo the basic testing of your > tank, and > > let us know the results. > > > > Even in a cycled tank a variety of things can knock off the > chemistry, from > > a fish dying where you don't know about it, to a decaying plant, to > > something about how you cleaned teh tank or the filter, to a number > of tank > > additives, especially those used to treat disease. > > > > If the nitrite level is 0 and the nitrate level is close to it, and > the tank > > has been in use 7 months, then I'd say that no matter whether teh > cloudiness > > is gray or green, something is consuming the nitrates in the tank. > > > > Do you have live plants? I think that would do it. > > > > Otherwise you're looking at algae, whether you can see them yet or not. > > Some algae aren't green, and some on these lists and elsewhere would > argue > > that they aren't algae, though Wikipedia classifies them that way. The > > cyanobacteria and the diatoms, among others. I had an invasion of the > > diatoms, which is common in tanks the age of yours - and besides > finding > > brown stuff covering surfaces of your tank and looking at it under a > high > > quality high power microscope, you can diagnose them by testing your > > phosphate and/or silicate levels against those of your tap water. > Diatoms > > will also consume phosphates and silicates. Phosphates are both > produced > > in the tank and found in some tap water, and the tests only test > what's in > > the tap water. But the day after I found brown stuff all oevr the > tank the > > nitrate adn phosphate levels in my tank were both zero, though the > phospate > > level of my tap water is fairly high. > > > > Aquarium plants also eat phosphates. But don't think they eat > silicates > > because unlike diatoms, they aren't made of glass. > > > > You mention plants, but unclaer if they're live plants or plastic ones. > > > > It would be useful if someone would explain how to clean the gravel > > underneath plants; because you really do have to clean the lower > levels of > > gravel regularly. Unless there simply isn't very much, anaerobic > bacteria > > live in it and eventually pockets of toxic gas will build up. I clean > > underneath everything once a week, and then put the plastic plants back. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31029	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel?

I used fresh zeolite and tested my water before I added new water. A lime green is 1 ppm. The next color is 2ppm (regular green). It was higher than 1ppm but less than 2ppm. I think i botched the test because the ammonia test that I just took, and the tests following read atleast .25. Even still with the zeolite I'm getting a greenish tint to my vile. My tank is clear so I don't know if there is something in the water that is throwing off the water, or if there is still enough of a load that I'm getting ammonia readings. My nitrites haven't gone up, but haven't gone down either To answer your question in your previous post about removing all potential ammonia sources is that i siphoned the gravel untill no thing was left to siphon and the spider plant basket that I hung in the aquarium so the only thing that is left is the one aquarium plant that I have in the tank. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 4:27:29 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel? No, siphoning your gravel will not cause an ammonia spike. Were you doing a PWC while doing this gravel vacuuming? I know you stated earlier that you still don't know if you have chloramines or not... this is something you need to find out by calling your water utility... but even with chloramine, the ammonia level should only get to 0.5ppm although I've seen rare reports of higher levels of ammonia when the chloramine is broken down... but even then only 1.0ppm to 2.0ppm... never higher. In a fully cycled tank, even those levels are not a problem with a 25% PWC as the bio-filter will immediately cycle the 0.25 to 0.5ppm of ammonia added with the 25% PWC. It's night time and I don't have my API test kit out and can't recall from memory, so what is the corresponding number to the color? I remember the dark green being kind of high but just do not recall the actual number. Did you add the zeolite to your filter system at some point prior to this test but after your last test? Had you cleaned and fully recharged the zeolite prior to adding it or could it have still had some sucked up ammonia in it and then when you added it to your tank which still had salt in the water, the salt would likely have caused the ammonia to leach out of the zeolite. This is how zeolite is recharged.. by soaking it in a salt water solution. Do a re-test to make sure you didn't mess up the dark green test and then if it also shows the high level, make sure you are using enough Prime to counteract that higher level and start doing your hourly PWC's to get it back down below 1.0ppm. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel? After I siphoned my gravel I did a water test and saw a huge jump in my ammonia to a color similar to a very dark lime green color. Did I mess up on an ammonia test, or does that tend to happen? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 3:27:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31030	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank

email can be very insecure. Generally its not easy to spoof email when mail servers are configured properly, but if all mail servers were configured properly we wouldn't have as much spam circulating the internet as we do. You might be on a wild goose chase. --Dave On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > I wrote to the owner of teh texbird list who is actually employed at > this > sort of thing. I realized in mid send that I do know how to find the actual > > IP address of someone who is spoofing another IP address. Can someone send > me the message source on one of this guy's posts that spoofed someone > else's > e-mail address? > > In Outlook Express you click file, properties, then details, tehn message > source. Copy and paste the whole long thing. > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@... <KWELYROOS71%40GMAIL.COM>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:25 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all > bacteria in the tank > > Now thats a good idea.. > > But how do u find one's ISP? > > On 10/5/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > > > Well, Lenny can contact Yahoo about this Jerry guy, but Jerry guy seems > > sufficiently technologically competent to get around Yahoo. > > > > You could always write his ISP, assuming he doesn't simply use teh public > > library. You could even contact them. Their terminals aren't to be used > > for abuse! > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@... <KWELYROOS71%40GMAIL.COM><KWELYROOS71% > 40GMAIL.COM>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:28 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all > > bacteria in the tank > > > > Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u know > > more about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the shark > > scientists i personally know! U are way better than that Jerry guy.. what > > > a > > jerk! > > > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie > > <MargiePhelps@... <MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > <MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > > >wrote: > > > > > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > > > -- > > > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > > > w.j.scott@... <w.j.scott%40verizon.net> <w.j.scott% > 40verizon.net> > > > <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: > > -------------- > > > > > > > Hey Guy's > > > > > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw > > stones > > > if > > > > you live in a glass house. > > > > > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be > > > > polite > > > with > > > > our on line comments. No > > > > > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny > > > will > > > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not spoon, > > > > > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric system, > > > > live > > > > > > > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, it's > > you > > > who > > > > > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make calculation, > > of > > > > > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell me > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > > You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > important > > > to the > > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> > > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Blessed be > > > > Lisa and Spike psd > > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > > on MSN kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40live.com> <kwelyroos71% > 40live.com> > > on aol kwelyroos1971 > > google talk kwelyroos71 > > ICQ 477496656 > > dark.moon.crafts@... <dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com><dark.moon.crafts% > 40gmail.com> > > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> <kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com > > > > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> <kwelyroos71%40gmail.com > > > > www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering > > www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak > > www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- > Blessed be > > Lisa and Spike psd > (soon to be a pup in training here) > > on yahoo kwelyroos71 > on MSN kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40live.com> > on aol kwelyroos1971 > google talk kwelyroos71 > ICQ 477496656 > dark.moon.crafts@... <dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> > kwelyroos71@... <kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> > www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering > www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak > www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31031	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Fosters and Smith

Speaking of Fosters and Smith, has anyone bought live fish from them? I have considered it as i browse their site quite a bit to see what they have available and try to pick out different fish i might like for my tank. I have never bought from them however just due to the trip they will have to take to get to me. Anyone had any experience with them? good or bad? On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > I haven't even seen this test for sale, Lenny. I couldn't remember the > name > of teh brand that Steve recommended highly, but doubted that I saw it in my > > Fosters adn Smith and Marineland catalogs. > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:48 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > Which test are you referring to? Before you resort to high priced > electronics, you should get the Kordon AccuTru test kit that \\Steve// > recommends highly. > > Do a search of the group for them and you'll see where I even did some > research to find prices around $60.00 for the Kordon Master test kit. > > Something that is likely affecting your ability to match the coloring is > your water color. If I'm not mistaken, didn't you have some green water > recently? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good > light. > A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make out > what > I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness of the screen > might be throwing the color off. What do you think? > > At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some > electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 2:48:06 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31032	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Terrestrial and bog plants are often sold as aquatic plants, especially by places like PetsMart. I always see them selling Mondo grass as an aquatic plant but these terrestrial plants will usually die in short order when fully submerged all of the time and will cause water quality problems when they start decaying. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help correction "palm" are Dracaena sanderiana non aquarium plants but sold as aquarium plants --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > i have live plants. i also been noticing i have to remove more > decaying parts of the plants lately.i have 4 small 1 large amazon > sword, also 2 java fern and 2,palms and several thin long stem plants > that were given to me by a friend don't know there name.( sorry new to > the hobby) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > Run out and get a nitrite test; part fo the basic testing of your > tank, and > > let us know the results. > > > > Even in a cycled tank a variety of things can knock off the > chemistry, from > > a fish dying where you don't know about it, to a decaying plant, to > > something about how you cleaned teh tank or the filter, to a number > of tank > > additives, especially those used to treat disease. > > > > If the nitrite level is 0 and the nitrate level is close to it, and > the tank > > has been in use 7 months, then I'd say that no matter whether teh > cloudiness > > is gray or green, something is consuming the nitrates in the tank. > > > > Do you have live plants? I think that would do it. > > > > Otherwise you're looking at algae, whether you can see them yet or not. > > Some algae aren't green, and some on these lists and elsewhere would > argue > > that they aren't algae, though Wikipedia classifies them that way. The > > cyanobacteria and the diatoms, among others. I had an invasion of the > > diatoms, which is common in tanks the age of yours - and besides > finding > > brown stuff covering surfaces of your tank and looking at it under a > high > > quality high power microscope, you can diagnose them by testing your > > phosphate and/or silicate levels against those of your tap water. > Diatoms > > will also consume phosphates and silicates. Phosphates are both > produced > > in the tank and found in some tap water, and the tests only test > what's in > > the tap water. But the day after I found brown stuff all oevr the > tank the > > nitrate adn phosphate levels in my tank were both zero, though the > phospate > > level of my tap water is fairly high. > > > > Aquarium plants also eat phosphates. But don't think they eat > silicates > > because unlike diatoms, they aren't made of glass. > > > > You mention plants, but unclaer if they're live plants or plastic ones. > > > > It would be useful if someone would explain how to clean the gravel > > underneath plants; because you really do have to clean the lower > levels of > > gravel regularly. Unless there simply isn't very much, anaerobic > bacteria > > live in it and eventually pockets of toxic gas will build up. I clean > > underneath everything once a week, and then put the plastic plants back. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 11:42:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31033	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Fosters and Smith

I ordered some Endlers from them a few years ago along with some plants. And I recently (a few weeks ago) purchased some more plants from them. I have no complaints fish and plants were both healthy and disease-free. -----Original Message----- From: David Keymel <azzuron@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Fosters and Smith Speaking of Fosters and Smith, has anyone bought live fish from them? I have considered it as i browse their site quite a bit to see what they have available and try to pick out different fish i might like for my tank. I have never bought from them however just due to the trip they will have to take to get to me. Anyone had any experience with them? good or bad? On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > I haven't even seen this test for sale, Lenny. I couldn't remember the > name > of teh brand that Steve recommended highly, but doubted that I saw it in my > > Fosters adn Smith and Marineland catalogs. > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:48 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > Which test are you referring to? Before you resort to high priced > electronics, you should get the Kordon AccuTru test kit that \\Steve// > recommends highly. > > Do a search of the group for them and you'll see where I even did some > research to find prices around $60.00 for the Kordon Master test kit. > > Something that is likely affecting your ability to match the coloring is > your water color. If I'm not mistaken, didn't you have some green water > recently? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good > light. > A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make out > what > I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness of the screen > might be throwing the color off. What do you think? > > At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some > electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 2:48:06 AM > avast! - copyright (c)=2 01988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31034	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Grey, Aside from their striking striped green and white color, why would you knowingly have such a non-aquatic bog plant submerged in your tank such as this Palm Plant (also known as Temple Plant)? You must know that it has a limited life completely submerged, or don't you? That its sold as an "aquarium plant" is of little consequence; many retailers of supplies for this hobby will offer anything that sells, whether purposefully or through ignorance. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > correction "palm" are Dracaena sanderiana non aquarium plants but sold > as aquarium plants > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > wrote: > > > > i have live plants. i also been noticing i have to remove more > > decaying parts of the plants lately.i have 4 small 1 large amazon > > sword, also 2 java fern and 2,palms and several thin long stem plants > > that were given to me by a friend don't know there name.( sorry new to > > the hobby) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > Run out and get a nitrite test; part fo the basic testing of your > > tank, and > > > let us know the results. > > > > > > Even in a cycled tank a variety of things can knock off the > > chemistry, from > > > a fish dying where you don't know about it, to a decaying plant, to > > > something about how you cleaned teh tank or the filter, to a number > > of tank > > > additives, especially those used to treat disease. > > > > > > If the nitrite level is 0 and the nitrate level is close to it, and > > the tank > > > has been in use 7 months, then I'd say that no matter whether teh > > cloudiness > > > is gray or green, something is consuming the nitrates in the tank. > > > > > > Do you have live plants? I think that would do it. > > > > > > Otherwise you're looking at algae, whether you can see them yet or > not. > > > Some algae aren't green, and some on these lists and elsewhere would > > argue > > > that they aren't algae, though Wikipedia classifies them that way. > The > > > cyanobacteria and the diatoms, among others. I had an invasion > of the > > > diatoms, which is common in tanks the age of yours - and besides > > finding > > > brown stuff covering surfaces of your tank and looking at it under a > > high > > > quality high power microscope, you can diagnose them by testing your > > > phosphate and/or silicate levels against those of your tap water. > > Diatoms > > > will also consume phosphates and silicates. Phosphates are both > > produced > > > in the tank and found in some tap water, and the tests only test > > what's in > > > the tap water. But the day after I found brown stuff all oevr the > > tank the > > > nitrate adn phosphate levels in my tank were both zero, though the > > phospate > > > level of my tap water is fairly high. > > > > > > Aquarium plants also eat phosphates. But don't think they eat > > silicates > > > because unlike diatoms, they aren't made of glass. > > > > > > You mention plants, but unclaer if they're live plants or plastic > ones. > > > > > > It would be useful if someone would explain how to clean the gravel > > > underneath plants; because you really do have to clean the lower > > levels of > > > gravel regularly. Unless there simply isn't very much, anaerobic > > bacteria > > > live in it and eventually pockets of toxic gas will build up. I > clean > > > underneath everything once a week, and then put the plastic plants > back. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Fosters and Smith

Just to clarify... it's their sister site http://www.LiveAquaria.com that sells live things. http://DrsFosterSmith.com sells all of the dry goods and hardware. I've purchased from DrsFosterSmith.com and was happy with my purchases. I don't think I've ever heard anything bad about either site. They stand behind their products and guarantees. While some of their prices may be high, they are very competitive on most of their products and although off-topic, they have the best prices (including shipping) on flea/tick products for cats/dogs out of any site on the net and better than any local stores as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fosters and Smith I ordered some Endlers from them a few years ago along with some plants. And I recently (a few weeks ago) purchased some more plants from them. I have no complaints fish and plants were both healthy and disease-free. -----Original Message----- From: David Keymel <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Fosters and Smith Speaking of Fosters and Smith, has anyone bought live fish from them? I have considered it as i browse their site quite a bit to see what they have available and try to pick out different fish i might like for my tank. I have never bought from them however just due to the trip they will have to take to get to me. Anyone had any experience with them? good or bad? On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > I haven't even seen this test for sale, Lenny. I couldn't remember the > name of teh brand that Steve recommended highly, but doubted that I > saw it in my > > Fosters adn Smith and Marineland catalogs. > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:48 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > Which test are you referring to? Before you resort to high priced > electronics, you should get the Kordon AccuTru test kit that \\Steve// > recommends highly. > > Do a search of the group for them and you'll see where I even did some > research to find prices around $60.00 for the Kordon Master test kit. > > Something that is likely affecting your ability to match the coloring > is your water color. If I'm not mistaken, didn't you have some green > water recently? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good > light. > A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make > out what I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness > of the screen might be throwing the color off. What do you think? > > At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some > electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 > 2:48:06 AM avast! - copyright (c)=2 01988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 12:19:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 12:40:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31036	From: Chris	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Now its time for something you'll really like!

If you don't get a laugh out of this, then you are brain dead! <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gp5BrhoKNk> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31037	From: Margie	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Now its time for something you'll really like!

Too cute and so were the others.... - Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Chris" <crjm28@...>: -------------- > If you don't get a laugh out of this, then you are brain dead! > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31038	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Fosters and Smith

All good to know. Thanks much Lenny. On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > Just to clarify... it's their sister site http://www.LiveAquaria.comthat > sells live things. http://DrsFosterSmith.com sells all of the dry goods > and > hardware. I've purchased from DrsFosterSmith.com and was happy with my > purchases. > > I don't think I've ever heard anything bad about either site. They stand > behind their products and guarantees. While some of their prices may be > high, they are very competitive on most of their products and although > off-topic, they have the best prices (including shipping) on flea/tick > products for cats/dogs out of any site on the net and better than any local > stores as well. > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of flohk13@... <flohk13%40aol.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fosters and Smith > > I ordered some Endlers from them a few years ago along with some plants. > And > I recently (a few weeks ago) purchased some more plants from them. I have > no > complaints fish and plants were both healthy and disease-free. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Keymel <azzuron@... <azzuron%40gmail.com> <mailto: > azzuron%40gmail.com <azzuron%2540gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:49 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fosters and Smith > > Speaking of Fosters and Smith, has anyone bought live fish from them? I > have > considered it as i browse their site quite a bit to see what they have > available and try to pick out different fish i might like for my tank. I > have never bought from them however just due to the trip they will have to > take to get to me. Anyone had any experience with them? good or bad? > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...<tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com <tiggernut24%2540yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > > I haven't even seen this test for sale, Lenny. I couldn't remember the > > name of teh brand that Steve recommended highly, but doubted that I > > saw it in my > > > > Fosters adn Smith and Marineland catalogs. > > > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto: > tiggernut24%40yahoo.com <tiggernut24%2540yahoo.com>> > > <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> <GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:48 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > > > Which test are you referring to? Before you resort to high priced > > electronics, > you should get the Kordon AccuTru test kit that \\Steve// > > recommends highly. > > > > Do a search of the group for them and you'll see where I even did some > > research to find prices around $60.00 for the Kordon Master test kit. > > > > Something that is likely affecting your ability to match the coloring > > is your water color. If I'm not mistaken, didn't you have some green > > water recently? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:03 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > > > You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good > > light. > > A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make > > out what I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness > > of the screen might be throwing the color off. What do you think? > > > > At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some > > electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations? > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 > > 2:48:06 AM avast! - copyright (c)=2 > 01988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > . > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 12:19:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 12:40:38 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31039	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels of from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does not give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one of the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards determining the cause of your problem. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water nitrate > test kit > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to someone's post > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the first one > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above your > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message and > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested for > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is next to > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well established > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm and > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do PWC's. > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not that much > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is faulty > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute (small). > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of bacteria as > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial bloom. Most > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, or at > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is no > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be done. You > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get there. For > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a mini- > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are additional > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also suspect of > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know your > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do the > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which might > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you are > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and still might > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for and fish > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous waste if > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether this > > is > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo > > error, > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all (and > > you do > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > parameters, > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you are > > not > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your nitrite > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert > > nitrite > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) which > > will > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). Just > > as > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to add to > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their needed > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, that's > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding off of > > any > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the parameters > > you > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous enough > > or > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and duration of > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you may > > be > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- > > this > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants when > > giving > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please > > offer > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you are > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not do a > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and extend > > the > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to > > get > > > > rid > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have > > snail > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail > > population > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at > > the end > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin test > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have not > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a clay > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel sense > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31040	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Fosters and Smith

True, it is Liveaquaria.com. Good catch. The plant prices were actually better than my LFS, so they are decently competitive. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 1:40 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fosters and Smith Just to clarify... it's their sister site http://www.LiveAquaria.com that sells live things. http://DrsFosterSmith.com sells all of the dry goods and hardware. I've purchased from DrsFosterSmith.com and was happy with my purchases. I don't think I've ever heard anything bad about either site. They stand behind their products and guarantees. While some of their prices may be high, they are very competitive on most of their products and although off-topic, they have the best prices (including shipping) on flea/tick products for cats/dogs out of any site on the net and better than any local stores as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fosters and Smith I ordered some Endlers from them a few years ago along with some plants. And I recently (a few weeks ago) purchased some more plants from them. I have no complaints fish and plan ts were both healthy and disease-free. -----Original Message----- From: David Keymel <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Fosters and Smith Speaking of Fosters and Smith, has anyone bought live fish from them? I have considered it as i browse their site quite a bit to see what they have available and try to pick out different fish i might like for my tank. I have never bought from them however just due to the trip they will have to take to get to me. Anyone had any experience with them? good or bad? On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > I haven't even seen this test for sale, Lenny. I couldn't remember the > name of teh brand that Steve recommended highly, but doubted that I > saw it in my > > Fosters adn Smith and Marineland catalogs. > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:48 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > Which test are you referring to? Before you resort to high priced > electronics, you should get the Kordon AccuTru test20kit that \\Steve// > recommends highly. > > Do a search of the group for them and you'll see where I even did some > research to find prices around $60.00 for the Kordon Master test kit. > > Something that is likely affecting your ability to match the coloring > is your water color. If I'm not mistaken, didn't you have some green > water recently? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good > light. > A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make > out what I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness > of the screen might be throwing the color off. What do you think? > > At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some > electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 > 2:48:06 AM avast! - copyright (c)=2 01988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 12:19:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 12:40:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ 0APlease, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31041	From: pam andress	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: white clouds anyone

I reciently got some and have them in one of my tanks. I know they are cold water, but so far they are fine. I'm hoping I can breed them when they are older. I love them so far. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: rick2646@...: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:19:15 -0700Subject: [AquaticLife] re: white clouds anyone I actually have last count six of them in with some goldfish and koi outside. We originally got them to control the misquitos in the bog of pond as it has a water in it. I was feeding the first in the main pond and moved the floating plants to feed the 'children' and a white cloud swam by. Now some of my koi are not HUGE but decent size for their age and they have not bothered these little guys.Rick[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31042	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

I think this is the troublesome part: cycling with fish is very stressful on the little guys A fish can live a long time after cycling just like a human with emphysema can live a long time. I don’t see how “fishless” can be more expensive since plain ammonia is really, really cheap. Yes use a filter, filter media or substrate from a cycled tank to transplant a fully developed bacteria colony to the new tank, eliminating the cycle. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) Ive done alot of reading on cycling a brand new tank before i got my original 20 gallon setup. Alot of cycling with fish has to do with which type of fish you use and how many. If i remember the recommended number of fish was 1 per 4 gallons to cycle a tank properly, and using tetras, and danio's were good choices as they were stronger fish in general. All but one of my danio still exists today and he died months after the cycling was over and i had added my clown loach. It was also my understanding that fishless cycling was more expensive. I do not write this to contradict lenny.It was just my experience that cycling with fish was not really troublesome, i did nothing special other than some research before hand. I think his view on fishless cycling is great, as cycling with fish is very stressful on the little guys even if you do use a stronger breed like tetras. The other issue you run into, like i have, is that you may end up having to buy a kind of fish you do not wish to stock in the tank after the cycle, and you get those little danios swimming around forever. :) Also, just a note on somethin i read while doing research, if you know someone with a running tank if you can get a hand full of their tank gravel or an old filter media maybe even, you can use that to boost your bacteria growth quite a bit and reduce the cycle time by quite a bit. Please correct me if i am wrong, i would hate to be spreading bad information :( --Dave On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > wrote: > Remember that slowing down the ammonia eating bacteria using zeolite > will > only prolong your cycling issues. > > You will be starving your ammonia eating bacteria so that colony will > diminish in size instead of grow. As soon as you remove the zeolite, your > ammonia level will spike since your N-bacteria colony will not have grown > large enough to handle the ammonia bioload. The zeolite will also slow down > or negate the growth of your nitrite eating bacteria as well since there > won't be as much ammonia to be converted into nitrite so there will be no > need for more nitrite eaters. > > At this point in "Cycling With Fish", the only thing you can really do is > continue to use salt to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning and do > PWC's > as needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down to 1.0ppm or less. > > Now you see why we recommend and why I push "Fishless Cycling" so much... > cycling with fish is really an arduous process on the fish and the fish > keeper. The difference is that it's only a pain in the butt to us while > it's deadly to the fish. > > I believe you are using Prime as your dechlor so at least your ammonia > should be in a non-toxic state as a normal ammonia level of 0.25ppm with > your pH and temp would make the ammonia very toxic. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update) > > Damn! All that work and still not good enough. I guess I made headway > > tank temp 86 > ph 7,8 > ammonia - around .25ppm > nitrites - 2ppm > > I changed out around 30 gallons. Atleast I lowered the numbers. I didn't > add > salt back into the water change either because I wanted to add zeolite to > slow the ammonia converting bacteria in hopes to get those nitrite levels > down on their own. I added zeolite to the filter back and poured some into > space behind the filter bag. Soon as I see a null reading for ammonia I'll > take that out and see what happens next. Will my nitrites continue to fall, > or will they go back up? > We'll see. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/6/2008 10:45:48 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31043	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Fosters and Smith

I buy a lot of stuff from Fosters and Smith and I love the information on their website, use it all the time. But I cannot in good conscience buy live fish from them. Their use of common names does not differentiate which fish you are buying, and there are times when the picture of the fish being sold is so bad, I doubt whether the picture matches the label of the fish at all. Also please note their recommended tank sizes, like most fish sellers, is too small IMO. I use aquabid plus breeders that advertise on the species forum I belong to (cichlids). _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fosters and Smith Speaking of Fosters and Smith, has anyone bought live fish from them? I have considered it as i browse their site quite a bit to see what they have available and try to pick out different fish i might like for my tank. I have never bought from them however just due to the trip they will have to take to get to me. Anyone had any experience with them? good or bad? On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote: > I haven't even seen this test for sale, Lenny. I couldn't remember the > name > of teh brand that Steve recommended highly, but doubted that I saw it in my > > Fosters adn Smith and Marineland catalogs. > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com<GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:48 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > Which test are you referring to? Before you resort to high priced > electronics, you should get the Kordon AccuTru test kit that \\Steve// > recommends highly. > > Do a search of the group for them and you'll see where I even did some > research to find prices around $60.00 for the Kordon Master test kit. > > Something that is likely affecting your ability to match the coloring is > your water color. If I'm not mistaken, didn't you have some green water > recently? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Back to api master kits > > You are supposed to hold the vile against something white and in good > light. > A blank wordprocessing sheet provides both. Its hard for me to make out > what > I'm looking at any other way, but I'm afraid the brightness of the screen > might be throwing the color off. What do you think? > > At this rate I'm willing to forget about color charts and go with some > electronic metering device to test my water. Any recommendations? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 > Tested on: 10/7/2008 2:48:06 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31044	From: Chris	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ich! What do you reccomend. (update)

Considering all the water changes I've done, cycling with fish is expensive and time consuming. I've learned my lesson.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31045	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

As blenny mentioned, what color cloudiness are you experiencing. Since different colors means that different things are causing the cloudiness, thus requiring different methods to cure. As Dora noted, you say nothing about nitrites. In a tank with a good cycle going, one will seldom see 0 nitrates, so I would suspect that your nitrites are high. I don't know what that Clear ease is that you listed. Really don't want to know. But, I can tell you that the odds of it working to cure your problem are probably slim to none. Stop adding it to your water. Two things that most people are thinking now is either a bacterial bloom or an algae bloom. One thing to consider also is fine bubbles. These can be caused by your filter pump if there is air getting into the impeller area of the pump. If you are using a device to introduce air bubbles into the aquarium, if the bubbles are fine enough, they can cause cloudiness also. Please tell us more about your setup so we can help you more accurately. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population still not down. I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end of my rope with the issue.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31046	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

The first part of the first line should read: "As Lenny mentioned, . . .". Sorry Lenny, I was on site until about 2 AM this morning, so I am a bit tired tonight even though I took it easy today and only worked 10 hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help As blenny mentioned, what color cloudiness are you experiencing. Since different colors means that different things are causing the cloudiness, thus requiring different methods to cure. As Dora noted, you say nothing about nitrites. In a tank with a good cycle going, one will seldom see 0 nitrates, so I would suspect that your nitrites are high. I don't know what that Clear ease is that you listed. Really don't want to know. But, I can tell you that the odds of it working to cure your problem are probably slim to none. Stop adding it to your water. Two things that most people are thinking now is either a bacterial bloom or an algae bloom. One thing to consider also is fine bubbles. These can be caused by your filter pump if there is air getting into the impeller area of the pump. If you are using a device to introduce air bubbles into the aquarium, if the bubbles are fine enough, they can cause cloudiness also. Please tell us more about your setup so we can help you more accurately. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population still not down. I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end of my rope with the issue. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31047	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Blenny I like it! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help The first part of the first line should read: "As Lenny mentioned, . . .". Sorry Lenny, I was on site until about 2 AM this morning, so I am a bit tired tonight even though I took it easy today and only worked 10 hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help As blenny mentioned, what color cloudiness are you experiencing. Since different colors means that different things are causing the cloudiness, thus requiring different methods to cure. As Dora noted, you say nothing about nitrites. In a tank with a good cycle going, one will seldom see 0 nitrates, so I would suspect that your nitrites are high. I don't know what that Clear ease is that you listed. Really don't want to know. But, I can tell you that the odds of it working to cure your problem are probably slim to none. Stop adding it to your water. Two things that most people are thinking now is either a bacterial bloom or an algae bloom. One thing to consider also is fine bubbles. These can be caused by your filter pump if there is air getting into the impeller area of the pump. If you are using a device to introduce air bubbles into the aquarium, if the bubbles are fine enough, they can cause cloudiness also. Please tell us more about your setup so we can help you more accurately. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:17 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population still not down. I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end of my rope with the issue. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31048	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up?

Lisa, Lenny is wrong, since he does not seem to be considering native fish for your cool (room temperature) water choices. Wander on over to http://www.nanfa.org/ the home on the web of the North American Native Fish Association and look at their checklist. Sure, you'll find larger fish there, but you will also find many that will be suitable for a tank such as you propose. You may need to join NANFA to have access to these fish, or the fish of your dreams may be found in a local bait shop, stream , pond, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Okay. So here's the deal. I'm looking at a ten gal tank set up. It comes with everything except the plastic plants, heater and the actual fish. So my question would be. One, For a cold water set up. What could I put in a community tank? And two, For a heated tank. What community fish are compatible? This will be my first time keeping a tank of this size. But I'm no stranger to fish keeping. Thanks. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31049	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank

It appears that his ISP is sympatico.ca, a fairly large Canadian ISP. He also uses Hotmail and writes e-mail directly from the website here. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 11:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all bacteria in the tank Now thats a good idea.. But how do u find one's ISP? On 10/5/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Well, Lenny can contact Yahoo about this Jerry guy, but Jerry guy seems > sufficiently technologically competent to get around Yahoo. > > You could always write his ISP, assuming he doesn't simply use teh public > library. You could even contact them. Their terminals aren't to be used > for abuse! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "L. Gove" <KWELYROOS71@... <KWELYROOS71%40GMAIL.COM>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny will kill all > bacteria in the tank > > Lenny.. can't u conntact yahoo about this guy??? what a weirdo.. u know > more about fish than anyone I know!, well maybe except for the shark > scientists i personally know! U are way better than that Jerry guy.. what a > jerk! > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Margie <MargiePhelps@...<MargiePhelps%40worldnet.att.net> > >wrote: > > > Is Lenny the same as GoldLenny? > > -- > > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > -------------- Original message from "William J. Scott" < > > w.j.scott@... <w.j.scott%40verizon.net> <w.j.scott%40verizon.net>>: > -------------- > > > > > Hey Guy's > > > > > > Take the bickering off list. We all make mistakes, so don't throw > stones > > if > > > you live in a glass house. > > > > > > I'm sure the rest of the members don't want to hear it. Let's be polite > > with > > > our on line comments. No > > > > > > Name calling. My 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Gerard > > > > > > Date: 10/04/08 14:35:45 > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] DANGER DANGER DANGER , Lenny > > will > > > kill all bacteria in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny how you can be so stupid....I said .3 ml ( 1/3) ml not spoon, > > > > > > it's obvious you have know nothing about a ml and the metric system, > > > live > > > > > > > > it to the pro.. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the psychopath..., I think you should look at your self, it's > you > > who > > > > > > want to play the scientific...I least I know how to make calculation, > of > > > > > > course metric system they show it at high Scholl. Lenny don't tell me > > > you > > > > > > > > are High Scholl undergraduate. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31050	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Hey... if the worst I get called is "blenny" on any given day, I'm doing good! LOL Maybe you've come up with a new internet buzz word for BloggerLenny. ;-) LOL (In case others don't realize it, the word "Blog" is short for Web Log) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help The first part of the first line should read: "As Lenny mentioned, . . .". Sorry Lenny, I was on site until about 2 AM this morning, so I am a bit tired tonight even though I took it easy today and only worked 10 hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help As blenny mentioned, what color cloudiness are you experiencing. Since different colors means that different things are causing the cloudiness, thus requiring different methods to cure. As Dora noted, you say nothing about nitrites. In a tank with a good cycle going, one will seldom see 0 nitrates, so I would suspect that your nitrites are high. I don't know what that Clear ease is that you listed. Really don't want to know. But, I can tell you that the odds of it working to cure your problem are probably slim to none. Stop adding it to your water. Two things that most people are thinking now is either a bacterial bloom or an algae bloom. One thing to consider also is fine bubbles. These can be caused by your filter pump if there is air getting into the impeller area of the pump. If you are using a device to introduce air bubbles into the aquarium, if the bubbles are fine enough, they can cause cloudiness also. Please tell us more about your setup so we can help you more accurately. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population still not down. I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end of my rope with the issue. ------------------------------------ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:45:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31051	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Saltwater to Freshwater Tank

I just purchased a 72g tank that was previously used as a saltwater tank. There is some coraline growth that built up on the tank walls. The majority of it was scraped off and I just did the rest, but I do not want to scrap the bits that are on the caulking of the tank...as that seems like a bad idea. I was told that coraline was essentially just calcium (I have no experience with sw). I plan on turning the tank into a freshwater community, will this affect them negatively at all? (If it makes a different its going to be a planted tank). Thanks, Kara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

LOL... I replied to \\Steve// before seeing your reply. As long as Blenny stands for BloggerLenny and not BigMouthLenny, I can live with it. Heck, I guess I'll have to live with it in either case. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help Blenny I like it! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help The first part of the first line should read: "As Lenny mentioned, . . .". Sorry Lenny, I was on site until about 2 AM this morning, so I am a bit tired tonight even though I took it easy today and only worked 10 hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help As blenny mentioned, what color cloudiness are you experiencing. Since different colors means that different things are causing the cloudiness, thus requiring different methods to cure. As Dora noted, you say nothing about nitrites. In a tank with a good cycle going, one will seldom see 0 nitrates, so I would suspect that your nitrites are high. I don't know what that Clear ease is that you listed. Really don't want to know. But, I can tell you that the odds of it working to cure your problem are probably slim to none. Stop adding it to your water. Two things that most people are thinking now is either a bacterial bloom or an algae bloom. One thing to consider also is fine bubbles. These can be caused by your filter pump if there is air getting into the impeller area of the pump. If you are using a device to introduce air bubbles into the aquarium, if the bubbles are fine enough, they can cause cloudiness also. Please tell us more about your setup so we can help you more accurately. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:17 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help:white cloudy water:Help I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything to get rid of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i have snail that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail population still not down. I been having this problem for several months now and I'm at the end of my rope with the issue. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:06:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:47:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31053	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up?

Hello, just a word of caution about native fish, some states require special permits to keep native fish, some native fish are illegal to keep., depends on the state, some states don’t care, it all depends. Check with your state wildlife agency or contact a wildlife officer. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Lisa, Lenny is wrong, since he does not seem to be considering native fish for your cool (room temperature) water choices. Wander on over to HYPERLINK "http://www.nanfa.org/"http://www.nanfa.org/ the home on the web of the North American Native Fish Association and look at their checklist. Sure, you'll find larger fish there, but you will also find many that will be suitable for a tank such as you propose. You may need to join NANFA to have access to these fish, or the fish of your dreams may be found in a local bait shop, stream , pond, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:19 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Okay. So here's the deal. I'm looking at a ten gal tank set up. It comes with everything except the plastic plants, heater and the actual fish. So my question would be. One, For a cold water set up. What could I put in a community tank? And two, For a heated tank. What community fish are compatible? This will be my first time keeping a tank of this size. But I'm no stranger to fish keeping. Thanks. Lisa Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31054	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up?

\\Steve//, That link http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm I included in my reply includes Native Fish in the list of cool/cold water fish... although I just re-checked the page and see that the link to "Native Fish" on that page doesn't link to info about native fish any longer but links to a Zebra Danio profile. I guess they moved some webpages around and messed up that link. I'll send their webmaster an email. I completely agree with you about NANFA being a very good resource and they have some very knowledgeable members. I should have included it in my reply but the above link used to have info about NANFA in the link from their page. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Lisa, Lenny is wrong, since he does not seem to be considering native fish for your cool (room temperature) water choices. Wander on over to http://www.nanfa.org/ <http://www.nanfa.org/> the home on the web of the North American Native Fish Association and look at their checklist. Sure, you'll find larger fish there, but you will also find many that will be suitable for a tank such as you propose. You may need to join NANFA to have access to these fish, or the fish of your dreams may be found in a local bait shop, stream , pond, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Any suggestions for a future ten gal set up? Okay. So here's the deal. I'm looking at a ten gal tank set up. It comes with everything except the plastic plants, heater and the actual fish. So my question would be. One, For a cold water set up. What could I put in a community tank? And two, For a heated tank. What community fish are compatible? This will be my first time keeping a tank of this size. But I'm no stranger to fish keeping. Thanks. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:57:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31055	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Saltwater to Freshwater Tank

Have you tried using vinegar on the buildup? If the plain white vinegar isn't strong enough, try pickling vinegar which is more concentrated, thus more acidic. Vinegar works great on hard water calcium/mineral buildup. While it may not even be an issue as far as affecting the water parameters of your FW tank, I guess there is always a chance that some dormant pathogen could be in the buildup. Usually SW pathogens do not do well in FW and vice versa but I'm sure there are many cross-over pathogens. I would try cleaning it with the vinegar and a scrubbie pad. Any that doesn't take it off and if the pickling vinegar doesn't kill them when soaking into the coraline buildup, then soak it in Hydrogen Peroxide. This may be overkill, but it's better to be safe than sorry and both of these are low-cost solutions that are easily cleaned up by a simple rinse of the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Saltwater to Freshwater Tank I just purchased a 72g tank that was previously used as a saltwater tank. There is some coraline growth that built up on the tank walls. The majority of it was scraped off and I just did the rest, but I do not want to scrap the bits that are on the caulking of the tank...as that seems like a bad idea. I was told that coraline was essentially just calcium (I have no experience with sw). I plan on turning the tank into a freshwater community, will this affect them negatively at all? (If it makes a different its going to be a planted tank). Thanks, Kara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:57:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 9:06:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31056	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Saltwater to Freshwater Tank

Great, thank you very much! I had not tried vinegar, but I was considering it as my next course of action. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 10:06 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Saltwater to Freshwater Tank Have you tried using vinegar on the buildup? If the plain white vinegar isn't strong enough, try pickling vinegar which is more concentrated, thus more acidic. Vinegar works great on hard water calcium/mineral buildup. While it may not even be an issue as far as affecting the water parameters of your FW tank, I guess there is always a chance that some dormant pathogen could be in the buildup. Usually SW pathogens do not do well in FW and vice versa but I'm sure there are many cross-over pathogens. I would try cleaning it with the vinegar and a scrubbie pad. Any that doesn't take it off and if the pickling vinegar doesn't kill them when soaking into the coraline buildup, then soak it in Hydrogen Peroxide. This may be overkill, but it's better to be safe than sorry and both of these are low-cost solutions that are easily cleaned up by a simple rinse of the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sen t: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Saltwater to Freshwater Tank I just purchased a 72g tank that was previously used as a saltwater tank. There is some coraline growth that built up on the tank walls. The majority of it was scraped off and I just did the rest, but I do not want to scrap the bits that are on the caulking of the tank...as that seems like a bad idea. I was told that coraline was essentially just calcium (I have no experience with sw). I plan on turning the tank into a freshwater community, will this affect them negatively at all? (If it makes a different its going to be a planted tank). Thanks, Kara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 8:57:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 9:06:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31057	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Lighting from the saltwater setup useful?

As I mentioned earlier, I purchased a 72g setup today. It was previously used for saltwater, but I intend to use it as a freshwater planted. It came with a 48" 40W High Intensity Power-Glo light fixture. Is this at all helpful for a freshwater? I was originally planning on getting the lighting separately, so didn't even factor the lighting fixture into the cost we paid for the tank (it was a steal w/o the lights) so the lights were just and added bonus. At first, I dismissed them because they were just 40w. But then I read the "high intensity"...so I was wondering if they are useful at all despite the fact they are intended for coral. Thanks, Kara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting from the saltwater setup useful?

Since there are so many different lighting systems for SW, give us more details. Is it a standard 48" fluorescent light fixture? Are they fluorescent bulbs or power compacts or halogen or LED or Metal-Halide or ??? Or is the bulb a 48" 40W Power-Glo bulb like this one? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3816 See if there are numbers and wattage on the separate bulbs, if there are more than one and give us those numbers as well. Often, a SW light fixture will have two different types of bulbs for broader light spectrum. In all likelihood, you will be able to use at least the lighting hardware so you might just have to change out the bulbs but maybe you won't even have to that. Here's a little review of that bulb, presuming it's the bulb mentioned above and it's being used on FW tanks with plants. Other reviews also showed this bulb being used on FW planted tanks. http://www.aquahobby.com/products/e_powerglo.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting from the saltwater setup useful? As I mentioned earlier, I purchased a 72g setup today. It was previously used for saltwater, but I intend to use it as a freshwater planted. It came with a 48" 40W High Intensity Power-Glo light fixture. Is this at all helpful for a freshwater? I was originally planning on getting the lighting separately, so didn't even factor the lighting fixture into the cost we paid for the tank (it was a steal w/o the lights) so the lights were just and added bonus. At first, I dismissed them because they were just 40w. But then I read the "high intensity"...so I was wondering if they are useful at all despite the fact they are intended for coral. Thanks, Kara _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:28:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31059	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Ray next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( budget is kind of bad now on days) btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on today an its less cloudy. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels of > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does not > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one of > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards determining > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > wrote: > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > nitrate > > test kit > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to someone's > post > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the first > one > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > your > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message and > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested for > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is next > to > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > established > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm and > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do > PWC's. > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not that > much > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > faulty > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute (small). > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of bacteria > as > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial bloom. > Most > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, or > at > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is no > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be done. > You > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get there. > For > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a > mini- > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are additional > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also suspect > of > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know your > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do the > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > might > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you are > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and still > might > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for and > fish > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous waste > if > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether > this > > > is > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo > > > error, > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all > (and > > > you do > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > parameters, > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you > are > > > not > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > nitrite > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert > > > nitrite > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > which > > > will > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). > Just > > > as > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to > add to > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their > needed > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, > that's > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding > off of > > > any > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > parameters > > > you > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > enough > > > or > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > duration of > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you > may > > > be > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- > > > this > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants > when > > > giving > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please > > > offer > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you > are > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not > do a > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > extend > > > the > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything > to > > > get > > > > > rid > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i > have > > > snail > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail > > > population > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm > at > > > the end > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin > test > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have > not > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a > clay > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel > sense > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31060	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you may have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one way or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do note that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the interum, although changing out your filter completely would surely be a major adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness is starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by others here, you should be able to better keep things under control. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > Ray > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on > today an its less cloudy. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels of > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does not > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one of > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards determining > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > > nitrate > > > test kit > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to someone's > > post > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the first > > one > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > > your > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message and > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested for > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is next > > to > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > established > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm and > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do > > PWC's. > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not that > > much > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > > faulty > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute (small). > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of bacteria > > as > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial bloom. > > Most > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, or > > at > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is no > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be done. > > You > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get there. > > For > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a > > mini- > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are additional > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also suspect > > of > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know your > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do the > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > > might > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you are > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and still > > might > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for and > > fish > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous waste > > if > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is whether > > this > > > > is > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a typo > > > > error, > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all > > (and > > > > you do > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > > parameters, > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if you > > are > > > > not > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > nitrite > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to convert > > > > nitrite > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, will > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > > which > > > > will > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short time). > > Just > > > > as > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve to > > add to > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their > > needed > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish cloudiness, > > that's > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is feeding > > off of > > > > any > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > parameters > > > > you > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > > enough > > > > or > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > duration of > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients you > > may > > > > be > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any phosphates -- > > > > this > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants > > when > > > > giving > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, please > > > > offer > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting you > > are > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should not > > do a > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half the > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain any > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of an > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > > extend > > > > the > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried everything > > to > > > > get > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i > > have > > > > snail > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches snail > > > > population > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and I'm > > at > > > > the end > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the nutrafin > > test > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i have > > not > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I added a > > clay > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the gravel > > sense > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31061	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

ok i feel tarded i was reading the test kid is not nitrate its a nitrite test kit it goes from 0.0 mg to 3.3 mg i tested its at 0.5 level or so. ones again I'm sorry guys BTW eny of you guys know information on serpa tetras? I'm so so sorry guys --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you may > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one way > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do note > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the interum, > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a major > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness is > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > others here, you should be able to better keep things under control. > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > wrote: > > > > Ray > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on > > today an its less cloudy. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels > of > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does > not > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one > of > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > determining > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > > > nitrate > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > someone's > > > post > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > first > > > one > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > > > your > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message > and > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested > for > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > next > > > to > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > established > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm > and > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do > > > PWC's. > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > that > > > much > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > > > faulty > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > (small). > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > bacteria > > > as > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > bloom. > > > Most > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, > or > > > at > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is > no > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > done. > > > You > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > there. > > > For > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a > > > mini- > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > additional > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > suspect > > > of > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know > your > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do > the > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > > > might > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > are > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > still > > > might > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > and > > > fish > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous > waste > > > if > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > whether > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a > typo > > > > > error, > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all > > > (and > > > > > you do > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > you > > > are > > > > > not > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > > nitrite > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > convert > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, > will > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > > > which > > > > > will > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > time). > > > Just > > > > > as > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve > to > > > add to > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their > > > needed > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > cloudiness, > > > that's > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > feeding > > > off of > > > > > any > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > parameters > > > > > you > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > > > enough > > > > > or > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > duration of > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients > you > > > may > > > > > be > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > phosphates -- > > > > > this > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants > > > when > > > > > giving > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > please > > > > > offer > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > you > > > are > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should > not > > > do a > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half > the > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > any > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > an > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > > > extend > > > > > the > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > everything > > > to > > > > > get > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i > > > have > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > snail > > > > > population > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and > I'm > > > at > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > nutrafin > > > test > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i > have > > > not > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > added a > > > clay > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > gravel > > > sense > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31062	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

Will the bleach still rinse off of acrylic well too? I have a few scratches in the tank walls. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 16:38:55 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over KH is more important to test for than GH in a mature tank as the KH willcontinually go down and if it gets too low, you could have a pH crash. Youshouldn't have this fear since you have a good KH level as long as that isyour 48 hour tap water baseline level. If that was your tank water, then wealready know that your gravel (probably some limestone) was likely leachinginto your water.No, vinegar is not a disinfectant. It is used for cleaning hard waterbuildup.In your case, since you are replacing the gravel, you could clean the emptytank with a bleach solution. It will rinse off of the glass rather easily. If you don't want to use bleach, then use salt water with one tablespoon perin a cup of water and wipe everything down with that or fill the tank withone tablespoon per gallon and run the tank and filter with that for a coupleof hours. That should kill off any nasties. Then empty the tank, run withfresh water for an hour or so. Empty it again, run with fresh water againand that should be sufficient. You could also take your filter media outand flush it under the running hot water to make sure any salt is removedfrom it but it should be fine with just running fresh water through it withthe tank running. Any residual salt that you might have somehow missedwould not pose a problem since it's OK to have a pinch of salt per 10Ganyhow.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:22 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting OverSo, would viniger work best to disinfect? That way I dont have to freakabout not getting all the bleach out? Also, my GH and KH are always aboutthe same. Either they are both 8 or gh is 8 kh is 9 but usually the same soi dont even test for KH most of the time. is this just a coinisdense orshould I be checking them seperatly?I've messed with hotmail but cannot figure out why its doing this. I cansometimes get it to unscramble though :-) Sarah "With kids there's noguarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me ascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way.However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 6 Oct 2008 02:08:02 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Starting OverI would clean and disinfect the entire 35G system since there wasobviouslysome kind of very nasty pathogen in it that wiped out your fishratherquickly.A pH of 8 is fine.. especially for livebearers like molliesbut also formost other common tropical fish as long as you slowly acclimateany newlypurchased fish to your water. Also remember that the pH of a tankwillALWAYS come down in a tank that does not have something in it raisingthepH. It's better to start off with a little higher pH so that thenaturaltank ecology will not cause the pH to crash. Of course, knowing theKHlevels would tell us more about how stable your pH will remain. Youmentionyour hardness being a little high but is that KH (Carbonate Hardness)or GH(German Hardness)? How long has the 10G been running? Didn't yourecently clone a 2.5G intothe 10G? In either case, if the filter was fullycycled on the 2.5G, whichis now in the 10G, then after you clean the 35G,you can clone the 10G intothe 35G by moving the filter, gravel, decorations,etc.. You shouldn't haveany kind of cycling issue at all since you will haveso much water volume todilute the little bioload of the two mollies.Then youcan use the 10G and 2.5G to quarantine any new fish you buy.On a sidenote... did you ever fool with your settings in Hotmail or youremail clientto figure out what is stripping all of the formatting out ofmessages thatyou reply to? I don't even try to review much of your threadsas they looklike discombobulated mumbo-jumbo. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:22 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] StartingOverOkay, so the last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I havemyMollies in the 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does havealittle high ph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I emptyitand start over or do I just continue to check the stats and see if itfullycycles and then add a danio or somthing? I just do not know whatexactlykilled the fish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If Icontinue tocycle do I need to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive?or do I justlet it filter and what about the lights? Do they need to staythe same orcan they stay off? ThanksSarah "With kids there's no guarantee,but you justdeal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of whatwas to be, Iprobably would have run scared the other way. However, youalways find thestrength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri,3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionI thinkyou would have been better off NOT using the Cycle product. Itsimplydoes notwork as advertised and actually made the cycling conditionsworsefor me whenI tried it a few years back.Remember that the nitrifyingbacteria in thefilter media will only grow alarge enough colony to handlethe bioload of thetank that it is on. If youonly have one fish, then thefilter will only haveenough N-bacteria tohandle the bioload of one fish. Ifyou have ten fish,then the N-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger tohandle the bioload ofthe ten fish.If the filter has been running on the2.5G for several weeks andwasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it willhave enough of thegoodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10Gtank. If youmovedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added morefish, thenyouwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until theN-bacteriacolonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload thatmore fishwouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies andthen do aPWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also doPWC's onthe2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and thenjustmovethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel ordecorationsinthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning onadifferentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colanderorstocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your newsubstratecan grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday,October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]CyclingQuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridgefrommy 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How longtilthistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filtermedia?I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank!lolSarah"Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes.Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverunscaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. Thisisbecause you are into your first phase of cycling sotheammoniaeatingbacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colonytohandle theammoniaand is now converting it quickly to nitrite. Thenextphase will bethenitrite eating bacteria growing and converting thenitriteto nitratebutuntil then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitritelevels.Ibelieve you arestill running a high level of salt so thatwillpartiallyprotect the fishfrom nitrite poisoning but you need to getthenitritelevel down by doing aseries of 25% PWC's, one every hour ortwo.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, itwill lower the nitrite. Remember toreplacetheremoved salt. I'm not surewhat your salt level is right nowbuthopefullyyou do know and can computethe correct level of salt toreplacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute thesalt in a container of tankwater andslowlypour it back into the tank,avoiding direct contact with thefish. DONOTpour this strong solution ofsalt into or near your filterintake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referencedabovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6couple days ago so I did the 25%waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and nowits way up."With kids there'snoguarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave meascript of what was to be, I probably would have runscaredthe otherway.However, you always find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] water statsIs thenitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may knowby now, 5ppmisWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > >>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > >>>Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday,October 02, 2008 12:38PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests inthe mail today. here aretodaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp:77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'mpretty sure thefishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. Iam finallygettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use afilter frommysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, Iwilltreatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learnedmylessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, butyoujust dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was tobe,Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you alwaysfindthestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200818:03:16 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strongenough to deal with somethinglikeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minorthings like fin rot and tohelpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, aseries of 25%PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bringthe waterqualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so afishesownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issuecould bearesult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will losescales.Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeingpokingout(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming looseandmayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) couldmeananinternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the foodthatthegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making itintothegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducingtheIDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it wassinceithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced anewparasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it,whichunfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and cleantheentiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh saltwater-likepasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all ofthewaterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha verystrongsaltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... withyourfiltersystemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuumthetankagainuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum itagain.Thenrefillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to preparethetank forfishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you couldstartlooking aroundatotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank andstartplanning things inthenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cyclingsoyou will be readytomakeyour new fishpurchases once thefishlesscyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticlesreferencedabovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 200812:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passedabout a halfhour ago. It wasswimming thismorningandthen just graduallystarted to bepushed by thecurrents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked likeits scaleswere poking out,but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine aaneroxicteen) and itstummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping forairandeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he justquitbreathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfishwaspickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding.Theyhadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal bodysizebuthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check outthedeadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of hisscalesweregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.Ithoughtthehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayevenwiththemelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there isonlyonehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with lifeas itcomes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would haverunscaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strengthtomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FORTHEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200812:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife]dropsySo the scalesaresticking outlike a pinecone butthegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you takepictures of thefishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of whatyou areseeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind ofrememberitbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threadsgotprettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideasofwhatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanksbeforethrowingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), itcouldsimplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlidtanksoitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfisharenotarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept incichlidtankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselvesinanoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lotaboutHITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back thenumberoftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it butit'snotjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn'tafesteringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pittinginthehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflictinglargerbreedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's relatedtodietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species whicharetheonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live theirlivesinlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fedproperdietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would onlymakethewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which areveryBIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as55Gtanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs alotofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's alsowhyIrecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and eventhatisthebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed asmuchproteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause muchmorewaterqualityissueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a coupleoflongarticles Ihave inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is stillmuchtobe learnedaboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might findmorerecentandmoredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a coupleofyearsoldandbased onthe best sciencereferences availableatthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____<atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____><thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____<thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> > _____ avast!Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081005-0, 10/05/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 2:08:02 AMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 3:58:28 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:38:55 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31063	From: Gerard	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: The Email Spooling

I can't believe you still talking about it, it's like you just want bring me back.. The only thing who keep me here is because you still talking about it, Harry is more intelligent than that he understand than with a guy like be the best way is to ignore him, and he will go. I will make this last post just to help you t understand what you seams to have not even if I explain it many time in the past If you get the email address of a member like example : <mailto:sevenspringss@...> sevenspringss@... And you open the email software client . like outlook express and in the setting under email address , you change your's by the one of the member like here Ray one, and you send an email to a yahoo group where this person is member, it will be post, because Yahoo groups just verify the email return address of the sender, it's not spoofing. It's just a real lack of security. You can not do so if the member use a yahoo email address. I have absolutely no knowledge of the password of Lenny or Ray, it's just than if you post to the group with an email address of a member it's pass, so they are no thief identity stolen, since those email address are publicly show in the groups, I will sugest to someone to never use their important email address to post on a yahoo group, since it's a wide open door with no security at all. Now if you think a company like Bell Canada ( Sympatico ) will remove access to a client who pay over $ 200 a month ( Satellite, phone, cell phone, internet) just because he post something in a yahoo groups, good luck... Now I make my point about the Non experience of Lenny. That'S all, I don't intend to pass day to post message on this group, nothing to gain and I have better thing to do So simple change subject about Jerry, Gerard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31064	From: Gerard	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Some kind of appology

Harry I suggest you put an end of this , it will do not where.. I can always register 100 yahoo profile, came back and post again. This is ridiculous, it's only Dora, with her insisting who bring me back.. I was not here since 6 months, I came back with good intention. But honestly I was wrong, a yahoo group is not a good place to exchange about fish keeping at least not for me. The only exchange we have is people killing their fish. For my parts I would like to exchange with people who have some knowledge but more important experience it. And it's why I came in argue with Lenny, I personally don't need link to web site about info, I need live experience of real people. I have hundreds of books, they are mainly all contraindicated, so it's why I want opinion of people who have live experience. So as you see Lenny with is kind of reference was obviously not the answer. The only problem it's me I make the wrong choice of groups..and only me can be blame for it....so I know it and I left the groups last weak, but some one send me a email informing me than they try to get my ISP on this group so I came back to look what is all about.. If someone want to speak about it in private my email address is aqualab (@) sympatico.ca I think this forum have be hurt enough like this to continue and I hope Dora understand it. So have fun with your fish and keep them healty Gerard Gagnon , who hopefully will retire for good , from yahoo groups [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31065	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Grey, Don't sweat the small stuff. You wouldn't be the first person to mix them up, but at least you caught it. So, at least now we know your nitrIte is at 0.5ppm. Ideally, it should be at 0.0ppm (mg/L). This should not be enough to form a visible bacteria cloud, much of it BTW, probably being nitrifying bacteria which have not colonized a central location (filter) where the most oxygen would be passing by them. You will need to get a nitrAte test kit, but now that we know your nitrIte level, your nitrAte will not cause bacterial clouding (can cause suspended algae clouding); still good to know what that level is though, to determine what percentage of water needs changing when performing PWC's (preferably, should be no more than 40ppm, more ideally -- 20ppm, or less). Which reminds me, I have not seen your reply to Lenny's suggestion that you may have changed out your filter media (although I may have missed that). If you haven't yet indicated such, this would be an important piece of info to let us know, as if you have done this it would be the cause of your baterial bloom. As you said you've had this for a while, I can only guess that you've at least been cleaning your filter fairly regularly in an attempt to keep the maintenance at its best -- but may have been cleaning your media with your fresh faucet water. If this is the case, the fresh water's chloramine (or chlorine) would be killing off your beneficial bacteria. Again, I can only guess this as happening, not having that info yet, but going with what's occurring in the tank as a strong possibility. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > ok i feel tarded i was reading the test kid is not nitrate its a > nitrite test kit it goes from 0.0 mg to 3.3 mg i tested its at 0.5 > level or so. > > ones again I'm sorry guys > > BTW eny of you guys know information on serpa tetras? > I'm so so sorry guys > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you may > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one way > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do note > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the interum, > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a major > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness is > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under control. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Ray > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels > > of > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does > > not > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one > > of > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > determining > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > > > > nitrate > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > someone's > > > > post > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > first > > > > one > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > > > > your > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message > > and > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested > > for > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > next > > > > to > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > established > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm > > and > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > that > > > > much > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > > > > faulty > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > bacteria > > > > as > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > bloom. > > > > Most > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, > > or > > > > at > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is > > no > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > done. > > > > You > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > there. > > > > For > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a > > > > mini- > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > additional > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > suspect > > > > of > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know > > your > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do > > the > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > > > > might > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > are > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > still > > > > might > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > and > > > > fish > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous > > waste > > > > if > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > whether > > > > this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a > > typo > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all > > > > (and > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > > you > > > > are > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > convert > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, > > will > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > > > > which > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > time). > > > > Just > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve > > to > > > > add to > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their > > > > needed > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > cloudiness, > > > > that's > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > feeding > > > > off of > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > parameters > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > > > > enough > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients > > you > > > > may > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > phosphates -- > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants > > > > when > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > please > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > you > > > > are > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should > > not > > > > do a > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half > > the > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > any > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > > an > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > > > > extend > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > everything > > > > to > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i > > > > have > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > snail > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and > > I'm > > > > at > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > nutrafin > > > > test > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i > > have > > > > not > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > added a > > > > clay > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > gravel > > > > sense > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31066	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Spiderwebs?

Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my tank to start fresh and I look down and find these spots that almost look like spider webs in my tank. Its kinda like a funnel web and its white in color . I have atleast 5 of these things. What could they be? Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they now have white flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep eatting. What is this? Should I take the bulbs outta the tank? Sarah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31067	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic at hand is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read here several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini cycles and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, what is the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the bacteria content of the new media without affecting the old media so the swap is close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is what i currently have. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...>wrote: > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you may > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one way > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do note > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the interum, > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a major > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness is > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > others here, you should be able to better keep things under control. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "greychildren" <greychildren@...> > wrote: > > > > Ray > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on > > today an its less cloudy. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels > of > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does > not > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one > of > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > determining > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > > > nitrate > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > someone's > > > post > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > first > > > one > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > > > your > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message > and > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested > for > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > next > > > to > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > established > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm > and > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do > > > PWC's. > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > that > > > much > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > > > faulty > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > (small). > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > bacteria > > > as > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > bloom. > > > Most > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, > or > > > at > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is > no > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > done. > > > You > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > there. > > > For > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a > > > mini- > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > additional > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > suspect > > > of > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know > your > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do > the > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > > > might > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > are > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > still > > > might > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > and > > > fish > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous > waste > > > if > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > whether > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a > typo > > > > > error, > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all > > > (and > > > > > you do > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > you > > > are > > > > > not > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > > nitrite > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > convert > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, > will > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > > > which > > > > > will > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > time). > > > Just > > > > > as > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve > to > > > add to > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their > > > needed > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > cloudiness, > > > that's > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > feeding > > > off of > > > > > any > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > parameters > > > > > you > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > > > enough > > > > > or > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > duration of > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients > you > > > may > > > > > be > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > phosphates -- > > > > > this > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants > > > when > > > > > giving > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > please > > > > > offer > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > you > > > are > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should > not > > > do a > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half > the > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > any > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > an > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > > > extend > > > > > the > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > everything > > > to > > > > > get > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i > > > have > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > snail > > > > > population > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and > I'm > > > at > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > nutrafin > > > test > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i > have > > > not > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > added a > > > clay > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > gravel > > > sense > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31068	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his problem too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just change one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the filter media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it (unless cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only one cartridge, but most have two. When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two parts, at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media using your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use a pail of your aquarium water instead. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic at hand > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read here > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini cycles > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, what is > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the bacteria > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the swap is > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is what i > currently have. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > <sevenspringss@...>wrote: > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you may > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one way > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do note > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the interum, > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a major > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness is > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under control. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Ray > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels > > of > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does > > not > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one > > of > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > determining > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > > > > nitrate > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > someone's > > > > post > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > first > > > > one > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > > > > your > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message > > and > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested > > for > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > next > > > > to > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > established > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm > > and > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > that > > > > much > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > > > > faulty > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > bacteria > > > > as > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > bloom. > > > > Most > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, > > or > > > > at > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is > > no > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > done. > > > > You > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > there. > > > > For > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a > > > > mini- > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > additional > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > suspect > > > > of > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know > > your > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do > > the > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > > > > might > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > are > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > still > > > > might > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > and > > > > fish > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous > > waste > > > > if > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > whether > > > > this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a > > typo > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all > > > > (and > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > > you > > > > are > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > convert > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, > > will > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > > > > which > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > time). > > > > Just > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve > > to > > > > add to > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their > > > > needed > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > cloudiness, > > > > that's > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > feeding > > > > off of > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > parameters > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > > > > enough > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients > > you > > > > may > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > phosphates -- > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants > > > > when > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > please > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > you > > > > are > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should > > not > > > > do a > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half > > the > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > any > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > > an > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > > > > extend > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > everything > > > > to > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i > > > > have > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > snail > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and > > I'm > > > > at > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > nutrafin > > > > test > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i > > have > > > > not > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > added a > > > > clay > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > gravel > > > > sense > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31069	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Starting Over

Yes. Bleach isn't too hard to rinse off but you will have to do it several times. Then let the tank air out for 24-48 hours and any chlorine missed will evaporate. After that, stick your head in the tank and if you don't smell any bleach smell, you should be OK. While the tank is empty and clean, you might want to get an acrylic polishing kit and work on those scratches. Many of them will disappear once there is water in the tank but some will not. Read up on cleaning algae off of acrylic tanks (I use only a sponge) so you don't make the same mistakes that the previous owner might have made. I have one acrylic tank and the upside on them is they are very light compared to their glass counterparts. Acrylic is a better insulator so you don't get as much heat/cold exchange through it. It's clearer than glass, especially on bigger tanks where the glass has to be much thicker, although there is an iron-free glass available that is more expensive but doesn't have the green tint to it. The downside is that it scratches much easier than glass. Scratches in acrylic can be buffed/polished out where scratches in glass are much harder to repair. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:32 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over Will the bleach still rinse off of acrylic well too? I have a few scratches in the tank walls. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 6 Oct 2008 16:38:55 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Starting Over KH is more important to test for than GH in a mature tank as the KH willcontinually go down and if it gets too low, you could have a pH crash. Youshouldn't have this fear since you have a good KH level as long as that isyour 48 hour tap water baseline level. If that was your tank water, then wealready know that your gravel (probably some limestone) was likely leachinginto your water.No, vinegar is not a disinfectant. It is used for cleaning hard waterbuildup.In your case, since you are replacing the gravel, you could clean the emptytank with a bleach solution. It will rinse off of the glass rather easily. If you don't want to use bleach, then use salt water with one tablespoon perin a cup of water and wipe everything down with that or fill the tank withone tablespoon per gallon and run the tank and filter with that for a coupleof hours. That should kill off any nasties. Then empty the tank, run withfresh water for an hour or so. Empty it again, run with fresh water againand that should be sufficient. You could also take your filter media outand flush it under the running hot water to make sure any salt is removedfrom it but it should be fine with just running fresh water through it withthe tank running. Any residual salt that you might have somehow missedwould not pose a problem since it's OK to have a pinch of salt per 10Ganyhow.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:22 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Starting OverSo, would viniger work best to disinfect? That way I dont have to freakabout not getting all the bleach out? Also, my GH and KH are always aboutthe same. Either they are both 8 or gh is 8 kh is 9 but usually the same soi dont even test for KH most of the time. is this just a coinisdense orshould I be checking them seperatly?I've messed with hotmail but cannot figure out why its doing this. I cansometimes get it to unscramble though :-) Sarah "With kids there's noguarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me ascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way.However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 6 Oct 2008 02:08:02 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Starting OverI would clean and disinfect the entire 35G system since there wasobviouslysome kind of very nasty pathogen in it that wiped out your fishratherquickly.A pH of 8 is fine.. especially for livebearers like molliesbut also formost other common tropical fish as long as you slowly acclimateany newlypurchased fish to your water. Also remember that the pH of a tankwillALWAYS come down in a tank that does not have something in it raisingthepH. It's better to start off with a little higher pH so that thenaturaltank ecology will not cause the pH to crash. Of course, knowing theKHlevels would tell us more about how stable your pH will remain. Youmentionyour hardness being a little high but is that KH (Carbonate Hardness)or GH(German Hardness)? How long has the 10G been running? Didn't yourecently clone a 2.5G intothe 10G? In either case, if the filter was fullycycled on the 2.5G, whichis now in the 10G, then after you clean the 35G,you can clone the 10G intothe 35G by moving the filter, gravel, decorations,etc.. You shouldn't haveany kind of cycling issue at all since you will haveso much water volume todilute the little bioload of the two mollies.Then youcan use the 10G and 2.5G to quarantine any new fish you buy.On a sidenote... did you ever fool with your settings in Hotmail or youremail clientto figure out what is stripping all of the formatting out ofmessages thatyou reply to? I don't even try to review much of your threadsas they looklike discombobulated mumbo-jumbo. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links toarticles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:22 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] StartingOverOkay, so the last of the three fish have went from the 35 gallon. I havemyMollies in the 10 gallon which is reading perfect on stats but does havealittle high ph 8 and hardness. What do I do with my old tank? Do I emptyitand start over or do I just continue to check the stats and see if itfullycycles and then add a danio or somthing? I just do not know whatexactlykilled the fish, if it was a parasite or somthing. Also, If Icontinue tocycle do I need to keep adding food to keep the bacteria alive?or do I justlet it filter and what about the lights? Do they need to staythe same orcan they stay off? ThanksSarah "With kids there's no guarantee,but you justdeal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of whatwas to be, Iprobably would have run scared the other way. However, youalways find thestrength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri,3 Oct 2008 14:34:07 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Cycling QuestionI thinkyou would have been better off NOT using the Cycle product. Itsimplydoes notwork as advertised and actually made the cycling conditionsworsefor me whenI tried it a few years back.Remember that the nitrifyingbacteria in thefilter media will only grow alarge enough colony to handlethe bioload of thetank that it is on. If youonly have one fish, then thefilter will only haveenough N-bacteria tohandle the bioload of one fish. Ifyou have ten fish,then the N-bacteriacolony will be 10 times larger tohandle the bioload ofthe ten fish.If the filter has been running on the2.5G for several weeks andwasproperly cycling the 2.5G tank, then it willhave enough of thegoodN-bacteria to handle the same number of fish in a 10Gtank. If youmovedthe mollies and the filter to the 10G and then added morefish, thenyouwould put the 10G into at least a mini-cycle until theN-bacteriacolonygrows to the proper size to handle the larger bioload thatmore fishwouldcreate. I would keep it on the 2.5G tank with the mollies andthen do aPWCor two to remove most of the Cycle stuff from the 10G. Also doPWC's onthe2.5G so the water parameters are the same as in the 10G and thenjustmovethe fish and filter at the same time. If you have gravel ordecorationsinthe 2.5G, also move them to the 10G. If you are planning onadifferentsubstrate in the 10G, then keep the gravel in a colanderorstocking so itis easy to remove in a few weeks so that your newsubstratecan grow thebacteria that it needs as well.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links toarticles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year,Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday,October 03, 2008 1:49 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]CyclingQuestionOkay, so I got my 10 gallon today and put my filter cartridgefrommy 2.5gallon in the larger tanks filter. I also added cycle. How longtilthistank cycles? Will it be instant because of the other filtermedia?I'mtrying to get my mollies out of this tiny 2.5 gallon tank!lolSarah"Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes.Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverunscaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 16:29:24 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] water statsOK. Thisisbecause you are into your first phase of cycling sotheammoniaeatingbacteria seems to have grown a sufficient sized colonytohandle theammoniaand is now converting it quickly to nitrite. Thenextphase will bethenitrite eating bacteria growing and converting thenitriteto nitratebutuntil then, PWC's are needed to reduce the nitritelevels.Ibelieve you arestill running a high level of salt so thatwillpartiallyprotect the fishfrom nitrite poisoning but you need to getthenitritelevel down by doing aseries of 25% PWC's, one every hour ortwo.Each timeyou do a 25% PWC, itwill lower the nitrite. Remember toreplacetheremoved salt. I'm not surewhat your salt level is right nowbuthopefullyyou do know and can computethe correct level of salt toreplacewith thePWC's. Remember to dilute thesalt in a container of tankwater andslowlypour it back into the tank,avoiding direct contact with thefish. DONOTpour this strong solution ofsalt into or near your filterintake.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referencedabovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month andunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:08PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]waterstatsits 5 ppm. it was just 1.6couple days ago so I did the 25%waterchange andit dropped to .8 ppm and nowits way up."With kids there'snoguarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave meascript of what was to be, I probably would have runscaredthe otherway.However, you always find the strength tomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Thu,2 Oct 2008 13:46:21 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] water statsIs thenitrite(NO2-) 5ppm or 0.5ppm? As you may knowby now, 5ppmisWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Origi nal <ppmisWAYHIGH.LennyVasbinderFishBlog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Origi nal> <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <Blog-http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > 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>>><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > > > > >>>Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Thursday,October 02, 2008 12:38PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticli fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife]waterstatsIfinally got my nitrate tests inthe mail today. here aretodaysstats:no3+10 ppmno2- 5 ppmGH 100 ppmchlorine0 ppmKH 300 ppmPH 8Temp:77Iput in theprime that came today as well, but I'mpretty sure thefishwillnot make it.I guess now its just a waiting game. Iam finallygettingmy 10gallon for ahospital tank on saturday and will use afilter frommysmallestto cycle itand if by chance my shark is stil alive, Iwilltreatwithmaracyn-two untilsomething changes. I think i've learnedmylessonabouttaking rescuefish.sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, butyoujust dealwith life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was tobe,Iprobably would haverun scaredthe other way. However, you alwaysfindthestrength to meetwhatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200818:03:16 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife] dropsyMelafix isnotnearly strongenough to deal with somethinglikeHITH-HLLEdisease. It'sOKfor treating minorthings like fin rot and tohelpinhealing ofotherinjuries.... often times, aseries of 25%PWC's,gravelvacuuming,properfilter maintenance, etc., to bringthe waterqualitybackintoexcellentcondition will also do just as much so afishesownimmunesystem cancatch upto minor ailments.The scale loss issuecould bearesult of the Ick.Inadvanced cases ofIck, fish will losescales.Otherparasites can alsocausescale loss. The scales you are seeingpokingout(what you calledpineconing) could bescales that are coming looseandmayfall off also.Thewasting of the fish(getting thin, etc.) couldmeananinternaldigestivetract parasite that iseating all of the foodthatthegoldfish isconsuminginstead of thedigested food making itintothegoldfish asnutrition.Wereyour goldfish sick prior to introducingtheIDshark/catfish?I'mwondering ifit was sick... well obviously it wassinceithaspossibleHITH... so it couldhave introduced anewparasite/bacteriaintoyourgoldfish tank.If your fishdo not make it,whichunfortunatelymayhappen, you shouldprobably eitherbreak down and cleantheentiretank,gravel, filter system,etc., using ahigh saltwater-likepasteand/orhydrogen peroxide. Anotherthing would be toempty all ofthewaterandvacuum the gravel while doingso. Then fill it witha verystrongsaltwatersolution.. 1-2 tablespoonsper gallon... withyourfiltersystemrunningwhich would kill offeverything, then gravel vacuumthetankagainuntilempty, refill with freshwater and gravel vaccum itagain.Thenrefillwithfresh water and then doa "Fishless Cycle" to preparethetank forfishagainand while you arefishless cycling, you couldstartlooking aroundatotherfish that wouldwork out in your tank andstartplanning things inthenextfew weeks afterstarting the fishless cyclingsoyou will be readytomakeyour new fishpurchases once thefishlesscyclehascompleted.LennyVasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links toarticlesreferencedabovelistedon the right side under Archives- Year,MonthandunderLabels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday,October 01, 200812:37PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogrou ps.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticli fe%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife]dropsyThesmaller one passedabout a halfhour ago. It wasswimming thismorningandthen just graduallystarted to bepushed by thecurrents. It wasawhitegoldfish but it looked likeits scaleswere poking out,but youcouldseeits gills sticking out (imagine aaneroxicteen) and itstummywastinycompared to last night. it was gasping forairandeventuallythegaspsbecame smaller and smaller until he justquitbreathing.Iwastreatingfor ich and then fin rot. My other goldfishwaspickingatthesmaller onebefore he died and he is now back into hiding.Theyhadbothbeenhiding fora couple of days. He still has the normal bodysizebuthisfinsare lookinga little wierd as well. I did check outthedeadonebeforedisposing of it.It looked like the back half of hisscalesweregone.Ifigure this is fromthe other goldfish picking it them.Ithoughtthehole inthe catfish's headwas a sore but it wasnt going awayevenwiththemelafix.It looks alot likethe photos, but there isonlyonehole.Sarah"Withkidsthere's no guarantee,but you just deal with lifeas itcomes. Ifsomeonegaveme a script of whatwas to be, I probably would haverunscaredthe otherway.However, youalways find the strengthtomeetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FORTHEGREATERGOODJoinmeTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups. comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yaho ogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLif e%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto: GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.comDate><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> :Wed,1 Oct 200812:25:25 -0500Subject:RE:[AquaticLife]dropsySo the scalesaresticking outlike a pinecone butthegoldfisharen'tbloated? That'snotdropsy. Can you takepictures of thefishfromtheside and top so we cangeta better idea of whatyou areseeing?Remindmeof what you first postedaboutyour fish. I kind ofrememberitbeingIchbut I'm not positive sincesome ofthe threadsgotprettyconvoluted.Giveme a short history on thefish/tank. Ihave some ideasofwhatyou couldbeseeing but I want a refresherabout yourtanksbeforethrowingthingsout.As far as the injury to thecatfish (IDshark), itcouldsimplybethat.From what I remember, you rescuedthis fishfrom a cichlidtanksoitmayhave been picked on by the cichlids.IDsharks/catfisharenotarmoredlikemany of the plecos that are morecommonlykept incichlidtankssincetheyare more able to fight back and fendforthemselvesinanoftenaggressiveand territorial set-up. I haven'tbeenreading a lotaboutHITHinthe past couple of years, sinceKatrina mademecut back thenumberoftanksthat I have, and I've never hadtopersonallydeal with it butit'snotjustan isolated "hole" like thatcausedfrom aninjury and isn'tafesteringtypeof hole/injury either.It's more likeaseries of pittinginthehead,sensory pits and lateralline area andmoreoften afflictinglargerbreedsofcichlids. Many surmise(and I mostlyagree)that it's relatedtodietandwater quality issues thataffect manylargerfish species whicharetheonesmost likely to be kept inundersizedtanks sothey live theirlivesinlesserwater quality comparedto smaller fishand arenot fedproperdietsbecausefeeding them the amountof food theyshould befed would onlymakethewaterquality issues evenworse. It's commonwithOscars which areveryBIGfishand unfortunatelymany people keep themintanks as small as55Gtanks.Ithink a 14" fish that is an ablebodiedswimmer that needs alotofproteinintheir diets needs MUCH MORE thana 55Gtank. It's alsowhyIrecommendtheminimum tank size as 55G for twofancygoldfish and eventhatisthebareminimum size but at least goldfish donotneed asmuchproteinintheirdiets. Protein rich diets cause muchmorewaterqualityissueswhencomparedto veggie based diets.Here's a coupleoflongarticles Ihave inmyfavorites folder and you'llsee there is stillmuchtobe learnedaboutthisdisease. A Google Scholarsearch might findmorerecentandmoredefinitivestudies since both ofthese articles are a coupleofyearsoldandbased onthe best sciencereferences availableatthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spir onucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <availableatthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spi ronucleus.phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> <atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus .phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <atthetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus .phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> ><thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus. phphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____ <thetimetheywerewritten.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.p hphttp://www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith._____> > > _____ avast!Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081005-0, 10/05/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 2:08:02 AMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 3:58:28 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008Tested on: 10/6/2008 4:38:55 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 8:56:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31070	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

OK. Since you have a nitrite reading above 0.0ppm, that means you are experiencing at least a mini-cycle... probably due to having trashed your filter cartridge. Keep testing and if the ammonia/nitrite levels get over 1.0ppm, do 25% PWC's as needed to keep them below 1.0ppm. Adding a pinch of salt per 10G will help prevent nitrite poisoning. The chloride in this very low level of salt improves gill function as well without irritating the fish or plants. When finances improve, you will want to get a nitrAte test kit as well since that is a good one to check to make sure your tank maintenance program is keeping nitrates at a low enough level... depending on the fish, 20-30ppm is OK and normal and are kept in check with regular PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help ok i feel tarded i was reading the test kid is not nitrate its a nitrite test kit it goes from 0.0 mg to 3.3 mg i tested its at 0.5 level or so. ones again I'm sorry guys BTW eny of you guys know information on serpa tetras? I'm so so sorry guys --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you may > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one way or > another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by phytoplankton > as this short-term light deprivation would not yet impact suspended > algae if that were your problem -- and should not affect a bacterial > bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do note > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't know > what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the interum, > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a major > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness is > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us posted > on further developments. With the help you've been given by others > here, you should be able to better keep things under control. > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > wrote: > > > > Ray > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on > > today an its less cloudy. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels > of > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does > not > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one > of > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > determining > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > > > nitrate > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > someone's > > > post > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > first > > > one > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > > > your > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message > and > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested > for > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > next > > > to > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > established > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm > and > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do > > > PWC's. > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > that > > > much > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > > > faulty > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > (small). > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > bacteria > > > as > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > bloom. > > > Most > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, > or > > > at > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is > no > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > done. > > > You > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > there. > > > For > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a > > > mini- > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > additional > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > suspect > > > of > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know > your > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do > the > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > > > might > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > are > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > still > > > might > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > and > > > fish > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous > waste > > > if > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > whether > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a > typo > > > > > error, > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all > > > (and > > > > > you do > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > you > > > are > > > > > not > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > > nitrite > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > convert > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, > will > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > > > which > > > > > will > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > time). > > > Just > > > > > as > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve > to > > > add to > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their > > > needed > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > cloudiness, > > > that's > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > feeding > > > off of > > > > > any > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > parameters > > > > > you > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > > > enough > > > > > or > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > duration of > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients > you > > > may > > > > > be > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > phosphates -- > > > > > this > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants > > > when > > > > > giving > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > please > > > > > offer > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > you > > > are > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should > not > > > do a > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half > the > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > any > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > an > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > > > extend > > > > > the > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > everything > > > to > > > > > get > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i > > > have > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > snail > > > > > population > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and > I'm > > > at > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > nutrafin > > > test > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i > have > > > not > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > added a > > > clay > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > gravel > > > sense > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 8:56:42 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 9:48:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31071	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an organized spider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely show up in tanks as well that can survive underwater so there is always a chance but it's more than likely algae. See if this is what you have. It can range in color from white to greenish tint. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm (half way down on this page is picture of Filamentous algae) Were the bulbs for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and others out here, pet stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plants and they will live for a little while under water but eventually will die and rot and foul the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my tank to start fresh and I look down and find these spots that almost look like spider webs in my tank. Its kinda like a funnel web and its white in color . I have atleast 5 of these things. What could they be? Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they now have white flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep eatting. What is this? Should I take the bulbs outta the tank? Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31072	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an organized spider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely show up in tanks as well that can survive underwater so there is always a chance but it's more than likely algae. See if this is what you have. It can range in color from white to greenish tint. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm (half way down on this page is picture of Filamentous algae) Were the bulbs for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and others out here, pet stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plants and they will live for a little while under water but eventually will die and rot and foul the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my tank to start fresh and I look down and find these spots that almost look like spider webs in my tank. Its kinda like a funnel web and its white in color . I have atleast 5 of these things. What could they be? Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they now have white flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep eatting. What is this? Should I take the bulbs outta the tank? Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31073	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Lenny, I can't change my filter media at this moment due to financial issues. I'm going to try the extra cut out filter media as Lenny subjected. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Grey, Don't sweat the small stuff. You wouldn't be the first person > to mix them up, but at least you caught it. So, at least now we know > your nitrIte is at 0.5ppm. Ideally, it should be at 0.0ppm (mg/L). > This should not be enough to form a visible bacteria cloud, much of > it BTW, probably being nitrifying bacteria which have not colonized a > central location (filter) where the most oxygen would be passing by > them. You will need to get a nitrAte test kit, but now that we know > your nitrIte level, your nitrAte will not cause bacterial clouding > (can cause suspended algae clouding); still good to know what that > level is though, to determine what percentage of water needs changing > when performing PWC's (preferably, should be no more than 40ppm, more > ideally -- 20ppm, or less). > > Which reminds me, I have not seen your reply to Lenny's suggestion > that you may have changed out your filter media (although I may have > missed that). If you haven't yet indicated such, this would be an > important piece of info to let us know, as if you have done this it > would be the cause of your baterial bloom. As you said you've had > this for a while, I can only guess that you've at least been cleaning > your filter fairly regularly in an attempt to keep the maintenance at > its best -- but may have been cleaning your media with your fresh > faucet water. If this is the case, the fresh water's chloramine (or > chlorine) would be killing off your beneficial bacteria. Again, I > can only guess this as happening, not having that info yet, but going > with what's occurring in the tank as a strong possibility. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > wrote: > > > > ok i feel tarded i was reading the test kid is not nitrate its a > > nitrite test kit it goes from 0.0 mg to 3.3 mg i tested its at 0.5 > > level or so. > > > > ones again I'm sorry guys > > > > BTW eny of you guys know information on serpa tetras? > > I'm so so sorry guys > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > may > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > way > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should > not > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > note > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > interum, > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > major > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > is > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given > by > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > control. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > one( > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > on > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > levels > > > of > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > does > > > not > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > you > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are > 3 > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > one > > > of > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results > for > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > determining > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > water > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > someone's > > > > > post > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as > the > > > first > > > > > one > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > above > > > > > your > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > message > > > and > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > tested > > > for > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm > is > > > next > > > > > to > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > established > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > 20.0ppm > > > and > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > you do > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > that > > > > > much > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > is > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > bacteria > > > > > as > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > bloom. > > > > > Most > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > plants, > > > or > > > > > at > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > is > > > no > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > done. > > > > > You > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > there. > > > > > For > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > through a > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > additional > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > suspect > > > > > of > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > know > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > do > > > the > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > which > > > > > might > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If > you > > > are > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > still > > > > > might > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look > for > > > and > > > > > fish > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > nitrogenous > > > waste > > > > > if > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > removed. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > whether > > > > > this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you > made a > > > typo > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > all > > > > > (and > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > true > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > if > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > convert > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > cycled, > > > will > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > cloudiness) > > > > > which > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > time). > > > > > Just > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > serve > > > to > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > their > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > cloudiness, > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > feeding > > > > > off of > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > numerous > > > > > enough > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > nutrients > > > you > > > > > may > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > plants > > > > > when > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > please > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > should > > > not > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > half > > > the > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > any > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel of > > > an > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > and > > > > > extend > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > everything > > > > > to > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > yes i > > > > > have > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > snail > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > and > > > I'm > > > > > at > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > nutrafin > > > > > test > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > i > > > have > > > > > not > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > added a > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > gravel > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31074	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter medium, and i changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > problem too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can > cause mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, > its always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > change one part of the filter media, then change the other part of > the filter media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs > it (unless cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter > have only one cartridge, but most have two. > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > parts, at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter > media using your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), > but use a pail of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > wrote: > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > at hand > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > here > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > cycles > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > what is > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > bacteria > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > swap is > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > what i > > currently have. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > may > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > way > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > note > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > interum, > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > major > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > is > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > control. > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > one( > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > on > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > levels > > > of > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > does > > > not > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > you > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > one > > > of > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > determining > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > water > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > someone's > > > > > post > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > first > > > > > one > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > above > > > > > your > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > message > > > and > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > tested > > > for > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > next > > > > > to > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > established > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > 20.0ppm > > > and > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > you do > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > that > > > > > much > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > is > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > bacteria > > > > > as > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > bloom. > > > > > Most > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > plants, > > > or > > > > > at > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > is > > > no > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > done. > > > > > You > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > there. > > > > > For > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > through a > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > additional > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > suspect > > > > > of > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > know > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > do > > > the > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > which > > > > > might > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > are > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > still > > > > > might > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > and > > > > > fish > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > nitrogenous > > > waste > > > > > if > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > removed. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > whether > > > > > this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > a > > > typo > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > all > > > > > (and > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > true > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > if > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > convert > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > cycled, > > > will > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > cloudiness) > > > > > which > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > time). > > > > > Just > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > serve > > > to > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > their > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > cloudiness, > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > feeding > > > > > off of > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > numerous > > > > > enough > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > nutrients > > > you > > > > > may > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > plants > > > > > when > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > please > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > should > > > not > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > half > > > the > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > any > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > of > > > an > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > and > > > > > extend > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > everything > > > > > to > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > yes i > > > > > have > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > snail > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > and > > > I'm > > > > > at > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > nutrafin > > > > > test > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > i > > > have > > > > > not > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > added a > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > gravel > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31075	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

In simple terms. When doing a PWC, fill a clean bucket with some removed tank water, remove your filter media and clean it off in the bucket. This will remove the bulk of the detritus from the media without killing off the good nitrifying bacteria. In long terms. I have a long article all about "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" on my blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic at hand is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read here several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini cycles and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, what is the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the bacteria content of the new media without affecting the old media so the swap is close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is what i currently have. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> >wrote: > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you may > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one way or > another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by phytoplankton > as this short-term light deprivation would not yet impact suspended > algae if that were your problem -- and should not affect a bacterial > bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do note > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't know > what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the interum, > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a major > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness is > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us posted > on further developments. With the help you've been given by others > here, you should be able to better keep things under control. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> > wrote: > > > > Ray > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on > > today an its less cloudy. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels > of > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does > not > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one > of > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > determining > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > > > nitrate > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > someone's > > > post > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > first > > > one > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > > > your > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message > and > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested > for > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > next > > > to > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > established > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm > and > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do > > > PWC's. > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > that > > > much > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > > > faulty > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > (small). > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > bacteria > > > as > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > bloom. > > > Most > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, > or > > > at > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is > no > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > done. > > > You > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > there. > > > For > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a > > > mini- > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > additional > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > suspect > > > of > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know > your > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do > the > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > > > might > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > are > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > still > > > might > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > and > > > fish > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous > waste > > > if > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > whether > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a > typo > > > > > error, > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all > > > (and > > > > > you do > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > you > > > are > > > > > not > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > > nitrite > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > convert > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, > will > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > > > which > > > > > will > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > time). > > > Just > > > > > as > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve > to > > > add to > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their > > > needed > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > cloudiness, > > > that's > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > feeding > > > off of > > > > > any > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > parameters > > > > > you > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > > > enough > > > > > or > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > duration of > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients > you > > > may > > > > > be > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > phosphates -- > > > > > this > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants > > > when > > > > > giving > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > please > > > > > offer > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > you > > > are > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should > not > > > do a > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half > the > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > any > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > an > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > > > extend > > > > > the > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > everything > > > to > > > > > get > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i > > > have > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > snail > > > > > population > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and > I'm > > > at > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > nutrafin > > > test > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i > have > > > not > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > added a > > > clay > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > gravel > > > sense > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:15:16 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31076	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

BTW guys sense were in the cleaning of media filters. I found some clear slime thing behind the filter medium.. are this this snail eggs? or some kind of fungus? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I can't change my filter media at this moment due to financial issues. > I'm going to try the extra cut out filter media as Lenny subjected. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, Don't sweat the small stuff. You wouldn't be the first person > > to mix them up, but at least you caught it. So, at least now we know > > your nitrIte is at 0.5ppm. Ideally, it should be at 0.0ppm (mg/L). > > This should not be enough to form a visible bacteria cloud, much of > > it BTW, probably being nitrifying bacteria which have not colonized a > > central location (filter) where the most oxygen would be passing by > > them. You will need to get a nitrAte test kit, but now that we know > > your nitrIte level, your nitrAte will not cause bacterial clouding > > (can cause suspended algae clouding); still good to know what that > > level is though, to determine what percentage of water needs changing > > when performing PWC's (preferably, should be no more than 40ppm, more > > ideally -- 20ppm, or less). > > > > Which reminds me, I have not seen your reply to Lenny's suggestion > > that you may have changed out your filter media (although I may have > > missed that). If you haven't yet indicated such, this would be an > > important piece of info to let us know, as if you have done this it > > would be the cause of your baterial bloom. As you said you've had > > this for a while, I can only guess that you've at least been cleaning > > your filter fairly regularly in an attempt to keep the maintenance at > > its best -- but may have been cleaning your media with your fresh > > faucet water. If this is the case, the fresh water's chloramine (or > > chlorine) would be killing off your beneficial bacteria. Again, I > > can only guess this as happening, not having that info yet, but going > > with what's occurring in the tank as a strong possibility. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > ok i feel tarded i was reading the test kid is not nitrate its a > > > nitrite test kit it goes from 0.0 mg to 3.3 mg i tested its at 0.5 > > > level or so. > > > > > > ones again I'm sorry guys > > > > > > BTW eny of you guys know information on serpa tetras? > > > I'm so so sorry guys > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > > cloudy > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > > may > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > > lights > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > > way > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should > > not > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > > note > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > > don't > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > interum, > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > major > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > > is > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given > > by > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > control. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > > one( > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > > on > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > levels > > > > of > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > does > > > > not > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > > you > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are > > 3 > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > > one > > > > of > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results > > for > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > determining > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > water > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > someone's > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as > > the > > > > first > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > above > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > message > > > > and > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > tested > > > > for > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm > > is > > > > next > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > 20.0ppm > > > > and > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > you do > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > > that > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > > is > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > > bacteria > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > > bloom. > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > plants, > > > > or > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > > is > > > > no > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > > done. > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > > there. > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > through a > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > additional > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > > suspect > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > know > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > > do > > > > the > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > which > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If > > you > > > > are > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > > still > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look > > for > > > > and > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > nitrogenous > > > > waste > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > removed. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > whether > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you > > made a > > > > typo > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > > all > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > true > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > > if > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > your > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > > convert > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > cycled, > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > cloudiness) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > > time). > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > serve > > > > to > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > their > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > feeding > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > numerous > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > nutrients > > > > you > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > plants > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > > greenish, > > > > please > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > > lighting > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > should > > > > not > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > half > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > > retain > > > > any > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > > gravel of > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > > and > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > everything > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > > yes i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > > snail > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > > and > > > > I'm > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > > i > > > > have > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > > added a > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > > gravel > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31077	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

very informative blogs Lenny btw --- On Wed, 10/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 11:15 AM In simple terms. When doing a PWC, fill a clean bucket with some removed tank water, remove your filter media and clean it off in the bucket. This will remove the bulk of the detritus from the media without killing off the good nitrifying bacteria. In long terms. I have a long article all about "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" on my blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:47 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic at hand is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read here several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini cycles and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, what is the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the bacteria content of the new media without affecting the old media so the swap is close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is what i currently have. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> >wrote: > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you may > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one way or > another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by phytoplankton > as this short-term light deprivation would not yet impact suspended > algae if that were your problem -- and should not affect a bacterial > bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do note > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't know > what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the interum, > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a major > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness is > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us posted > on further developments. With the help you've been given by others > here, you should be able to better keep things under control. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>, "greychildren" <greychildren@ ...> > wrote: > > > > Ray > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on > > today an its less cloudy. > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>, > "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels > of > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does > not > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one > of > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > determining > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>, > "greychildren" > <greychildren@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > > > nitrate > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>, > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > someone's > > > post > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > first > > > one > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > > > your > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message > and > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested > for > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > next > > > to > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > established > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm > and > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do > > > PWC's. > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > that > > > much > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > > > faulty > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > (small). > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > bacteria > > > as > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > bloom. > > > Most > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, > or > > > at > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is > no > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > done. > > > You > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > there. > > > For > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a > > > mini- > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > additional > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > suspect > > > of > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know > your > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do > the > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > > > might > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > are > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > still > > > might > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > and > > > fish > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous > waste > > > if > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>, > "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>, > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > whether > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a > typo > > > > > error, > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all > > > (and > > > > > you do > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > you > > > are > > > > > not > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > > nitrite > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > convert > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, > will > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > > > which > > > > > will > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > time). > > > Just > > > > > as > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve > to > > > add to > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their > > > needed > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > cloudiness, > > > that's > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > feeding > > > off of > > > > > any > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > parameters > > > > > you > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > > > enough > > > > > or > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > duration of > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients > you > > > may > > > > > be > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > phosphates -- > > > > > this > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants > > > when > > > > > giving > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > please > > > > > offer > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > you > > > are > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should > not > > > do a > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half > the > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > any > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > an > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > > > extend > > > > > the > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>, > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > everything > > > to > > > > > get > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i > > > have > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > snail > > > > > population > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and > I'm > > > at > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > nutrafin > > > test > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i > have > > > not > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > added a > > > clay > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > gravel > > > sense > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:15:16 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31078	From: greychildren	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

very informative blogs Lenny btw --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > In simple terms. When doing a PWC, fill a clean bucket with some removed > tank water, remove your filter media and clean it off in the bucket. This > will remove the bulk of the detritus from the media without killing off the > good nitrifying bacteria. > > In long terms. I have a long article all about "Filter Maintenance And > Cleaning" on my blog. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic at hand > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read here > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini cycles > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, what is > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the bacteria > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the swap is > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is what i > currently have. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> >wrote: > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you may > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one way or > > another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by phytoplankton > > as this short-term light deprivation would not yet impact suspended > > algae if that were your problem -- and should not affect a bacterial > > bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do note > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't know > > what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the interum, > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a major > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness is > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us posted > > on further developments. With the help you've been given by others > > here, you should be able to better keep things under control. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Ray > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels > > of > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does > > not > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which you > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one > > of > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > determining > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > > > > nitrate > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > someone's > > > > post > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > first > > > > one > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > > > > your > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message > > and > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested > > for > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > next > > > > to > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > established > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to 20.0ppm > > and > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you do > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > that > > > > much > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > > > > faulty > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > bacteria > > > > as > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > bloom. > > > > Most > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, > > or > > > > at > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is > > no > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > done. > > > > You > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > there. > > > > For > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through a > > > > mini- > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > additional > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > suspect > > > > of > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know > > your > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do > > the > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > > > > might > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > are > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > still > > > > might > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > and > > > > fish > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous > > waste > > > > if > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > whether > > > > this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a > > typo > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at all > > > > (and > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > > you > > > > are > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > convert > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, > > will > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > > > > which > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > time). > > > > Just > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve > > to > > > > add to > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains their > > > > needed > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > cloudiness, > > > > that's > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > feeding > > > > off of > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > parameters > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > > > > enough > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients > > you > > > > may > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > phosphates -- > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of plants > > > > when > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > please > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > you > > > > are > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should > > not > > > > do a > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do half > > the > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > any > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > > an > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > > > > extend > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > everything > > > > to > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes i > > > > have > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > snail > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and > > I'm > > > > at > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > nutrafin > > > > test > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i > > have > > > > not > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > added a > > > > clay > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > gravel > > > > sense > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 > Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:15:16 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

That's the good thing about what Ray and I are telling you. There is no reason to change out the filter cartridges on a bi-weekly or monthly basis like the manufacturers advise. They are just trying to increase their sales. I still have the original filter cartridges and/or foam/floss pads, etc., that came with most of my filter systems. If you look at my blog article "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel", you will see photos of the details of how I did "surgery" on the cartridge to dump out the carbon while keeping the filter cartridge with the blue floss pad intact. I also add extra filter floss pad to all of my filter systems in the reservoirs so that I can over-clean some of the media on occasion, if needed, without killing off the majority of the good bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Lenny, I can't change my filter media at this moment due to financial issues. I'm going to try the extra cut out filter media as Lenny subjected. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Grey, Don't sweat the small stuff. You wouldn't be the first person to > mix them up, but at least you caught it. So, at least now we know your > nitrIte is at 0.5ppm. Ideally, it should be at 0.0ppm (mg/L). > This should not be enough to form a visible bacteria cloud, much of it > BTW, probably being nitrifying bacteria which have not colonized a > central location (filter) where the most oxygen would be passing by > them. You will need to get a nitrAte test kit, but now that we know > your nitrIte level, your nitrAte will not cause bacterial clouding > (can cause suspended algae clouding); still good to know what that > level is though, to determine what percentage of water needs changing > when performing PWC's (preferably, should be no more than 40ppm, more > ideally -- 20ppm, or less). > > Which reminds me, I have not seen your reply to Lenny's suggestion > that you may have changed out your filter media (although I may have > missed that). If you haven't yet indicated such, this would be an > important piece of info to let us know, as if you have done this it > would be the cause of your baterial bloom. As you said you've had this > for a while, I can only guess that you've at least been cleaning your > filter fairly regularly in an attempt to keep the maintenance at its > best -- but may have been cleaning your media with your fresh faucet > water. If this is the case, the fresh water's chloramine (or > chlorine) would be killing off your beneficial bacteria. Again, I can > only guess this as happening, not having that info yet, but going with > what's occurring in the tank as a strong possibility. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > wrote: > > > > ok i feel tarded i was reading the test kid is not nitrate its a > > nitrite test kit it goes from 0.0 mg to 3.3 mg i tested its at 0.5 > > level or so. > > > > ones again I'm sorry guys > > > > BTW eny of you guys know information on serpa tetras? > > I'm so so sorry guys > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > may > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > way > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should > not > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > note > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > interum, > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > major > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > is > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given > by > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > control. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > one( > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > on > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > levels > > > of > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > does > > > not > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > you > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are > 3 > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > one > > > of > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results > for > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > determining > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > water > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > someone's > > > > > post > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as > the > > > first > > > > > one > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > above > > > > > your > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > message > > > and > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > tested > > > for > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm > is > > > next > > > > > to > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > established > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > 20.0ppm > > > and > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > you do > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > that > > > > > much > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > is > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > bacteria > > > > > as > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > bloom. > > > > > Most > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > plants, > > > or > > > > > at > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > is > > > no > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > done. > > > > > You > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > there. > > > > > For > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > through a > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > additional > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > suspect > > > > > of > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > know > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > do > > > the > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > which > > > > > might > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If > you > > > are > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > still > > > > > might > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look > for > > > and > > > > > fish > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > nitrogenous > > > waste > > > > > if > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > removed. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > whether > > > > > this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you > made a > > > typo > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > all > > > > > (and > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > true > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > if > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > convert > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > cycled, > > > will > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > cloudiness) > > > > > which > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > time). > > > > > Just > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > serve > > > to > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > their > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > cloudiness, > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > feeding > > > > > off of > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > numerous > > > > > enough > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > nutrients > > > you > > > > > may > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > plants > > > > > when > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > please > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > should > > > not > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > half > > > the > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > any > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel of > > > an > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > and > > > > > extend > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > everything > > > > > to > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > yes i > > > > > have > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > snail > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > and > > > I'm > > > > > at > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > nutrafin > > > > > test > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > i > > > have > > > > > not > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > added a > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > gravel > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:27:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:40:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31080	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Is it inside the filter reservoir? I'm guessing this is where you mean. There is always a chance snails could get into the filter reservoir but more than likely it's just a mold or fungus or slime caused by the detritus in the reservoir. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help BTW guys sense were in the cleaning of media filters. I found some clear slime thing behind the filter medium.. are this this snail eggs? or some kind of fungus? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > I can't change my filter media at this moment due to financial issues. > I'm going to try the extra cut out filter media as Lenny subjected. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Grey, Don't sweat the small stuff. You wouldn't be the first person > > to mix them up, but at least you caught it. So, at least now we know > > your nitrIte is at 0.5ppm. Ideally, it should be at 0.0ppm (mg/L). > > This should not be enough to form a visible bacteria cloud, much of > > it BTW, probably being nitrifying bacteria which have not colonized > > a central location (filter) where the most oxygen would be passing > > by them. You will need to get a nitrAte test kit, but now that we > > know your nitrIte level, your nitrAte will not cause bacterial > > clouding (can cause suspended algae clouding); still good to know > > what that level is though, to determine what percentage of water > > needs changing when performing PWC's (preferably, should be no more > > than 40ppm, more ideally -- 20ppm, or less). > > > > Which reminds me, I have not seen your reply to Lenny's suggestion > > that you may have changed out your filter media (although I may have > > missed that). If you haven't yet indicated such, this would be an > > important piece of info to let us know, as if you have done this it > > would be the cause of your baterial bloom. As you said you've had > > this for a while, I can only guess that you've at least been > > cleaning your filter fairly regularly in an attempt to keep the > > maintenance at its best -- but may have been cleaning your media > > with your fresh faucet water. If this is the case, the fresh water's > > chloramine (or > > chlorine) would be killing off your beneficial bacteria. Again, I > > can only guess this as happening, not having that info yet, but > > going with what's occurring in the tank as a strong possibility. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > ok i feel tarded i was reading the test kid is not nitrate its a > > > nitrite test kit it goes from 0.0 mg to 3.3 mg i tested its at 0.5 > > > level or so. > > > > > > ones again I'm sorry guys > > > > > > BTW eny of you guys know information on serpa tetras? > > > I'm so so sorry guys > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > > cloudy > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > > may > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > > lights > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > > way > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should > > not > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > > note > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > > don't > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > interum, > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > major > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > > is > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given > > by > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > control. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > > one( > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it > > > > > back > > on > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > levels > > > > of > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > does > > > > not > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > > > > > > which > > you > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are > > 3 > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > > one > > > > of > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results > > for > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > determining > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > water > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > someone's > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as > > the > > > > first > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > above > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > message > > > > and > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > tested > > > > for > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm > > is > > > > next > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > 20.0ppm > > > > and > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > you do > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but > > > > > > > > not > > > > that > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > > is > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > > bacteria > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > > bloom. > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > plants, > > > > or > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > > is > > > > no > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > > done. > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > > there. > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > through a > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > additional > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > > suspect > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > know > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > > do > > > > the > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > which > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If > > you > > > > are > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > > still > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look > > for > > > > and > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > nitrogenous > > > > waste > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > removed. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > whether > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you > > made a > > > > typo > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations > > > > > > > > > > at > > all > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > true > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > > > > > > > > > > completed > > if > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > your > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > convert > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > cycled, > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > cloudiness) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > > time). > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > serve > > > > to > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > their > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > feeding > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > numerous > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > nutrients > > > > you > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > plants > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > > greenish, > > > > please > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > > lighting > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > should > > > > not > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > half > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > > retain > > > > any > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > > gravel of > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > > and > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > everything > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I > > > > > > > > > > > did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > > yes i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > > snail > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > > and > > > > I'm > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > > i > > > > have > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. > > > > > > > > > I > > > > added a > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all > > > > > > > > > the > > > > gravel > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:41:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:43:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31081	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that looked like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a fungus from excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it is incredibly dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt vacummed for about a week or so since there were no fish in it. The water was really slimy looking though. Anyway, when I get it all the way emptied I will take a pic of this stuff in there. The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it was a large pack of like 10 http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants.aspx They have only been in there a few days sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely show up in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is always a chance but it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what you have. It can range in color from white to greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm (half way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout here, pet stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plantsand they will live for a little while under water but eventually will dieand rot and foul the water.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my tank to start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost look like spider webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its white in color . I have atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they be?Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they now havewhite flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta the tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31082	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

-----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help very informative blogs Lenny btw --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > In simple terms. When doing a PWC, fill a clean bucket with some removed > tank water, remove your filter media and clean it off in the bucket. This > will remove the bulk of the detritus from the media without killing off the > good nitrifying bacteria. > > In long terms. I have a long article all about "Filter Maintenance And > Cleaning" on my blog. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic at hand > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read here > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini cycles > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, what is > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the bacteria > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the swap > is close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I > am speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > what i currently have. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> >wrote: > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you may > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one way > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do note > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the interum, > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a major > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness is > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under control. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Ray > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have one( > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back on > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in levels > > of > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, does > > not > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > > > > you indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each one > > of > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > determining > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greychildren" > > <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh water > > > > nitrate > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > someone's > > > > post > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > first > > > > one > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message above > > > > your > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own message > > and > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you tested > > for > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > next > > > > to > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > established > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > > > > > 20.0ppm > > and > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent you > > > > > > do > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > that > > > > much > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading is > > > > faulty > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > bacteria > > > > as > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > bloom. > > > > Most > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their plants, > > or > > > > at > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There is > > no > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > done. > > > > You > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > there. > > > > For > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going through > > > > > > a > > > > mini- > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > additional > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > suspect > > > > of > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not know > > your > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you using? > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just do > > the > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells which > > > > might > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > are > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > still > > > > might > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > and > > > > fish > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to nitrogenous > > waste > > > > if > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not removed. > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > whether > > > > this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made a > > typo > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > > > > > > > > all > > > > (and > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your true > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed if > > you > > > > are > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like your > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > convert > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully cycled, > > will > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray cloudiness) > > > > which > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > time). > > > > Just > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only serve > > to > > > > add to > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > > > > > > > their > > > > needed > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > cloudiness, > > > > that's > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > feeding > > > > off of > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > parameters > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not numerous > > > > enough > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any nutrients > > you > > > > may > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > phosphates -- > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > > > > > > > plants > > > > when > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > please > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > you > > > > are > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you should > > not > > > > do a > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > > > > > > > half > > the > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > any > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel of > > an > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom and > > > > extend > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > everything > > > > to > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and yes > > > > > > > > > i > > > > have > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > snail > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now and > > I'm > > > > at > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > nutrafin > > > > test > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. i > > have > > > > not > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > added a > > > > clay > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > gravel > > > > sense > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 > 10:15:16 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:44:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:44:39 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31083	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

In the past when i put in a new cartridge i just buy the pre-assembled carts, and just take out the old and put in the new. While this has had no visible effect on my tank, in light of recent discussion, it might be causing spikes in the levels of amonia. So you are suggesting getting the kits that do not come assembled and you have to add the carbon to the little cartridge? By doing this you would suggest removing the old carbon and replacing it with a fresh pack from this kit? I am just trying to understand. My filter has only one cartridge, so i cannot really add another. there is room to toss another one in there, but it wouldn't be held in place. My filter also has a very porus sponge like material that goes between the filter and the return spout itself. I do not know the significance of this, as the filter medium is catching any large chunks of food or whatever may come through the filter. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > wrote: > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > problem too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can > cause mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, > its always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > change one part of the filter media, then change the other part of > the filter media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs > it (unless cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter > have only one cartridge, but most have two. > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > parts, at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter > media using your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), > but use a pail of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "David > Keymel" <azzuron@...> > wrote: > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > at hand > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > here > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > cycles > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > what is > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > bacteria > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > swap is > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > what i > > currently have. > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > <sevenspringss@...>wrote: > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > may > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > way > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > note > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > interum, > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > major > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > is > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > control. > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > one( > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > on > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > levels > > > of > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > does > > > not > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > you > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > one > > > of > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > determining > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > water > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > someone's > > > > > post > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > first > > > > > one > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > above > > > > > your > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > message > > > and > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > tested > > > for > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > next > > > > > to > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > established > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > 20.0ppm > > > and > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > you do > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > that > > > > > much > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > is > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > bacteria > > > > > as > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > bloom. > > > > > Most > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > plants, > > > or > > > > > at > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > is > > > no > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > done. > > > > > You > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > there. > > > > > For > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > through a > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > additional > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > suspect > > > > > of > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > know > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > do > > > the > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > which > > > > > might > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > are > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > still > > > > > might > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > and > > > > > fish > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > nitrogenous > > > waste > > > > > if > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > removed. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > whether > > > > > this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > a > > > typo > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > all > > > > > (and > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > true > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > if > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > convert > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > cycled, > > > will > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > cloudiness) > > > > > which > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > time). > > > > > Just > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > serve > > > to > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > their > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > cloudiness, > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > feeding > > > > > off of > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > numerous > > > > > enough > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > nutrients > > > you > > > > > may > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > plants > > > > > when > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > please > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > should > > > not > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > half > > > the > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > any > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > of > > > an > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > and > > > > > extend > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > everything > > > > > to > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > yes i > > > > > have > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > snail > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > and > > > I'm > > > > > at > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > nutrafin > > > > > test > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > i > > > have > > > > > not > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > added a > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > gravel > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31084	From: ajb21130	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Help with starting a fw planted aquarium pls

Just want to say hi to everyone i am a newbee here to the group. I have a 40 something gal corner tank that i want to set up as a planted fresh water tank. I plan on adding some tetras and possibly a piece of drift wood and maybe some rock. As i know absolutely nothing about planted tanks i have a few questions so here they go... 1- Can i use playsand or do i have to use gravel,pebbles or something else altogeather? I want a natural look 2- Do i have to cycle the tank before adding plants ? 3- To cycle the tank do i start the process like i would a saltwater tank ex- raw shrimp untill the bacteria levels and water paramiters spike? 4- I have a powerhead from a saltwater tank i have that is extra can i use this in a f/w planted tank to help water movement? any websites you may recomend or advice is greatly appreciated Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31085	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

The link and packaging do not indicate what kinds of plants are in there so who knows. You may want to pay strict attention to the directions. Note that it indicates they are better off in an established aquarium, not a newly set up aquarium.. and that the bulbs should not be buried right from the start. They further state that bulbs will NOT sprout in a "clean freshly filled", which I take to be newly set up aquarium. The "Directions" tab on that page has: (START SNIP) Imported from Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Thailand, Malaysia, India. Important: Plants will thrive in established aquarium water. Easy to Grow Just drop bulbs in aquarium for a few days. When roots develop, simply bury the roots along with 3/4 of the bulb with sprouts up and roots down. Important Plants need oxygen and nutrients. Bulbs will not sprout in a clean freshly filled aquarium. Remember to keep some of the older water mixed in with the new fresh water, or add aquarium plant fertilizer. Provide at least eight hours of light per day. (END SNIP) For beginner plants, I recommend easy-to-grow, low-light plants such as the ones found on these two pages. VERY EASY LIST - http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> &filter_by=2 EASY LIST - http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> &filter_by=3 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:46 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that looked like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a fungus from excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it is incredibly dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt vacummed for about a week or so since there were no fish in it. The water was really slimy looking though. Anyway, when I get it all the way emptied I will take a pic of this stuff in there. The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it was a large pack of like 10 http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants.aspx <http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants.aspx> They have only been in there a few days sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely show up in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is always a chance but it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what you have. It can range in color from white to greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm <greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm> (half way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout here, pet stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plantsand they will live for a little while under water but eventually will dieand rot and foul the water.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my tank to start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost look like spider webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its white in color . I have atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they be?Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they now havewhite flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta the tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 10:54:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:16:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31086	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel once. it was really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i was feeding my fish less then than i do now, and after a while i was able to just get it out via suction or with my fish net. it never came back, so im not sure what the deal with that was. It was almost like cotton balls. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote: > > Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that looked > like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a fungus from > excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it is incredibly > dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt vacummed for about a week or > so since there were no fish in it. The water was really slimy looking > though. Anyway, when I get it all the way emptied I will take a pic of this > stuff in there. > > The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it was a > large pack of like 10 > http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants.aspx > > They have only been in there a few days > > > sarah > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run > scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever > comes." -unknown > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 > 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an > organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely show up > in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is always a chance but > it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what you have. It can range in > color from white to greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm(half way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs > for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout here, pet > stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plantsand they will > live for a little while under water but eventually will dieand rot and foul > the water.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of > cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>: > [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my tank to > start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost look like spider > webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its white in color . I have > atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they be?Also, I planted some various > bulbs in my smaller tank and they now havewhite flowy webby things on them > as well. My mollies keep eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta > the tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound > message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: > 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31087	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

The majority of aquariums do not even need to be running carbon in their filtration all of the time. IMO, that is just something that the filter manufacturers have sold on people to increase their sales. As long as you are doing weekly PWC's, vacuuming your gravel and doing proper filter maintenance, you should not have enough impurities in the water where carbon is needed. Now, carbon or other chemical filtration is helpful on heavily stocked tanks or to remove some added medicine that needs to be removed but not for most everyday purposes. Since your filter does have the thin sponge media also, that is a good place where the good bacteria will be living on all of the surface areas of the sponge so you definitely only want to rinse that off in removed tank water only, maybe squeeze it once or twice in removed tank water but do not clean that off good ever. Like I said earlier, you don't even need to ever change that cartridge or sponge unless or until it's literally starting to fall apart, which will take years. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help In the past when i put in a new cartridge i just buy the pre-assembled carts, and just take out the old and put in the new. While this has had no visible effect on my tank, in light of recent discussion, it might be causing spikes in the levels of amonia. So you are suggesting getting the kits that do not come assembled and you have to add the carbon to the little cartridge? By doing this you would suggest removing the old carbon and replacing it with a fresh pack from this kit? I am just trying to understand. My filter has only one cartridge, so i cannot really add another. there is room to toss another one in there, but it wouldn't be held in place. My filter also has a very porus sponge like material that goes between the filter and the return spout itself. I do not know the significance of this, as the filter medium is catching any large chunks of food or whatever may come through the filter. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wrote: > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his problem > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just change > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the filter > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it (unless > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only one > cartridge, but most have two. > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two parts, > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media using > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use a pail > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> > wrote: > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > at hand > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > here > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > cycles > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > what is > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > bacteria > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > swap is > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > what i > > currently have. > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > <sevenspringss@...>wrote: > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > may > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > way > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > note > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > interum, > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > major > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > is > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > control. > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > one( > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > on > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > levels > > > of > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > does > > > not > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > you > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > one > > > of > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > determining > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > water > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > someone's > > > > > post > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > first > > > > > one > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > above > > > > > your > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > message > > > and > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > tested > > > for > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > next > > > > > to > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > established > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > 20.0ppm > > > and > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > you do > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > that > > > > > much > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > is > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > bacteria > > > > > as > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > bloom. > > > > > Most > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > plants, > > > or > > > > > at > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > is > > > no > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > done. > > > > > You > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > there. > > > > > For > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > through a > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > additional > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > suspect > > > > > of > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > know > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > do > > > the > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > which > > > > > might > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > are > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > still > > > > > might > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > and > > > > > fish > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > nitrogenous > > > waste > > > > > if > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > removed. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > whether > > > > > this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > a > > > typo > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > all > > > > > (and > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > true > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > if > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > convert > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > cycled, > > > will > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > cloudiness) > > > > > which > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > time). > > > > > Just > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > serve > > > to > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > their > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > cloudiness, > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > feeding > > > > > off of > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > numerous > > > > > enough > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > nutrients > > > you > > > > > may > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > plants > > > > > when > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > please > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > should > > > not > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > half > > > the > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > any > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > of > > > an > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > and > > > > > extend > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > everything > > > > > to > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > yes i > > > > > have > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > snail > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > and > > > I'm > > > > > at > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > nutrafin > > > > > test > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > i > > > have > > > > > not > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > added a > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > gravel > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:23:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:38:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31088	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

That likely is mold growing from having excess detritus in the gravel. Are you vacuuming your gravel out on a regular basis? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 11:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel once. it was really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i was feeding my fish less then than i do now, and after a while i was able to just get it out via suction or with my fish net. it never came back, so im not sure what the deal with that was. It was almost like cotton balls. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss <cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com> > wrote: > > Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that > looked like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a > fungus from excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it > is incredibly dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt vacummed > for about a week or so since there were no fish in it. The water was > really slimy looking though. Anyway, when I get it all the way emptied > I will take a pic of this stuff in there. > > The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it > was a large pack of like 10 > http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants.a > spx > <http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants. > aspx> > > They have only been in there a few days > > > sarah > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have > run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to > meet whatever comes." -unknown > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> > <GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 > 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an > organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely > show up in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is always > a chance but it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what you have. > It can range in color from white to > greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > <greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm> (half way down > on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs for aquatic > plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout here, pet stores > will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plantsand they will live for a little while under water but eventually will dieand rot and foul the water.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of > cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>: > [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my > tank to start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost > look like spider webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its > white in color . I have atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they > be?Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they now > havewhite flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep eatting. > What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta the tank?Sarah_____ avast! > Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: > 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:23:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:41:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31089	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

I have attached the photo to my email... I dont know if that will work or not but here is the wierd fungus/algae in my old tank Sarah 'With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes.' -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: azzuron@...: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 12:44:59 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel once. itwas really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i was feeding myfish less then than i do now, and after a while i was able to just get itout via suction or with my fish net. it never came back, so im not sure whatthe deal with that was. It was almost like cotton balls.On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote:>> Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that looked> like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a fungus from> excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it is incredibly> dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt vacummed for about a week or> so since there were no fish in it. The water was really slimy looking> though. Anyway, when I get it all the way emptied I will take a pic of this> stuff in there.>> The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it was a> large pack of like 10> http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants.aspx>> They have only been in there a few days>>> sarah> 'With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes.> If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run> scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever> comes.' -unknown>> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>:> GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Wed, 8 Oct 2008> 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?>> There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an> organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely show up> in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is always a chance but> it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what you have. It can range in> color from white to greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm(half way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs> for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout here, pet> stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plantsand they will> live for a little while under water but eventually will dieand rot and foul> the water.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original Message-----From:> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of> cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo:> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>:> [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my tank to> start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost look like spider> webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its white in color . I have> atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they be?Also, I planted some various> bulbs in my smaller tank and they now havewhite flowy webby things on them> as well. My mollies keep eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta> the tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound> message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on:> 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31090	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting from the saltwater setup useful?

Unfortunately, I am totally new at this. I can tell you that it is a fluorescent, but that's it. Other than that I can't tell between them. Someone in another forum said that: "Power-Glo is a namebrand of Hagen lights with a K rating of 18000k, which is fine for a planted tank. High intensity could mean it's a T5HO bulb, is it a very thin bulb? T5HO would be preferable but it would still not be enough light for a 72g tank, you'd want to double the wattage." There's just one bulb. I couldn't really find more useful info- there was no K rating or anything. However, when I get home tonight or tomorrow, I will post any product or model numbers that may be on it. It does look like the one in the link that you posted. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 1:28 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lighting from the saltwater setup useful? Since there are so many different lighting systems for SW, give us more details. Is it a standard 48" fluorescent light fixture? Are they fluorescent bulbs or power compacts or halogen or LED or Metal-Halide or ??? Or is the bulb a 48" 40W Power-Glo bulb like this one? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3816 See if there are numbers and wattage on the separate bulbs, if there are more than one and give us those numbers as well. Often, a SW light fixture will have two different types of b ulbs for broader light spectrum. In all likelihood, you will be able to use at least the lighting hardware so you might just have to change out the bulbs but maybe you won't even have to that. Here's a little review of that bulb, presuming it's the bulb mentioned above and it's being used on FW tanks with plants. Other reviews also showed this bulb being used on FW planted tanks. http://www.aquahobby.com/products/e_powerglo.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting from the saltwater setup useful? As I mentioned earlier, I purchased a 72g setup today. It was previously used for saltwater, but I intend to use it as a freshwater planted. It came with a 48" 40W High Intensity Power-Glo light fixture. Is this at all helpful for a freshwater? I was originally planning on getting the lighting separately, so didn't even factor the lighting fixture into the cost we paid for the tank (it was a steal w/o the lights) so the lights were just and added bonus. At first, I dismissed them because they were just 40w. But then I read the "high intensity"...so I was wondering if they are useful at all despite the fact they are intended for coral. Thanks, Kara =0 A _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081007-0, 10/07/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:28:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

You can't attach photos in this group. We have it set up so someone can't send malicious or improper photos to the group. You can upload photos to the groups photo section or your own online photo album (flikr, webshots, etc.) and then give us the link. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:43 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? I have attached the photo to my email... I dont know if that will work or not but here is the wierd fungus/algae in my old tank Sarah 'With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes.' -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 8 Oct 2008 12:44:59 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel once. itwas really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i was feeding myfish less then than i do now, and after a while i was able to just get itout via suction or with my fish net. it never came back, so im not sure whatthe deal with that was. It was almost like cotton balls.On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss <cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com> > wrote:>> Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that looked> like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a fungus from> excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it is incredibly> dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt vacummed for about a week or> so since there were no fish in it. The water was really slimy looking> though. Anyway, when I get it all the way emptied I will take a pic of this> stuff in there.>> The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it was a> large pack of like 10> http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants.aspx <http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants.aspx> >> They have only been in there a few days>>> sarah> 'With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes.> If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run> scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever> comes.' -unknown>> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>:> GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Wed, 8 Oct 2008> 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?>> There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an> organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely show up> in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is always a chance but> it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what you have. It can range in> color from white to greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm <greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm> (half way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs> for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout here, pet> stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plantsand they will> live for a little while under water but eventually will dieand rot and foul> the water.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> Message-----From:> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of> cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo:> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>:> [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my tank to> start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost look like spider> webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its white in color . I have> atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they be?Also, I planted some various> bulbs in my smaller tank and they now havewhite flowy webby things on them> as well. My mollies keep eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta> the tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound> message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on:> 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 1:00:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 1:02:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31092	From: Margie	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

I had something growing in a 10 G tank that had guppies in it. And I have had tropical for ever. But even with water changes, tank clean out, these little ever so tiny WORMs were multipying so fast. At first I thought it to be "poop", but then it started sticking to the glass and they were MOVING. And they took over the tank. They were not even as thick as a piece of thread. You reakky had to look hard ot see that it was naything moving. You could hardly see them, but I knew they were there. Plus also taking over were snails. End of story..... I gave the guppies away and threw out the tank totally........ -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "David Keymel" <azzuron@...>: -------------- > You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel once. it > was really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i was feeding my > fish less then than i do now, and after a while i was able to just get it > out via suction or with my fish net. it never came back, so im not sure what > the deal with that was. It was almost like cotton balls. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss wrote: > > > > > Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that looked > > like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a fungus from > > excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it is incredibly > > dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt vacummed for about a week or > > so since there were no fish in it. The water was really slimy looking > > though. Anyway, when I get it all the way emptied I will take a pic of this > > stuff in there. > > > > The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it was a > > large pack of like 10 > > http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants.aspx > > > > They have only been in there a few days > > > > > > sarah > > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. > > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run > > scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever > > comes." -unknown > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom : > > GoldLenny@... : Wed, 8 Oct 2008 > > 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an > > organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely show up > > in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is always a chance but > > it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what you have. It can range in > > color from white to greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm(half > way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs > > for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout here, pet > > stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plantsand they will > > live for a little while under water but eventually will dieand rot and foul > > the water.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original Message-----From: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] OnBehalf Of > > cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject : > > [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my tank to > > start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost look like spider > > webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its white in color . I have > > atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they be?Also, I planted some various > > bulbs in my smaller tank and they now havewhite flowy webby things on them > > as well. My mollies keep eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta > > the tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus : Outbound > > message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: > > 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31093	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Most people change out a filter cartridge in this way, by just replacing the old with the new, as its a bit more convenient to just make the swap. You don't need to go to that expense though, if you prefer to keep using carbon as a filter medium, as you can buy it in bulk and just change the old carbon for new by slitting the top of your filter media bag to gain access to it, dumping the old and replacing it with fresh. No need to keep buying fresh cartridges. As Lenny points out though, the majority of aquariums don't need to be running carbon in the filtration system, although I would not remove that cartridge altogether since the more area you have in some type of medium, the greater the opportunity for beneficial bacteria to grow over it. You will only have as much nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter as the bioload will supply nutrients (nitrogenous waste) to it, but this way it will be more spread out and when you do clean a portion of it (or finally change a cartridge that will last a good while), you will still have a good amount of this bacteria to keep the cycle going fairly well -- even if you do have a "mini" - mini-cycle at that time. While I did say not to remove the cartridge altogether, my point is that some hobbyists (knowing that carbon is not really needed at most times) dump the carbon from the cartridge after its spent and replace it with aquarium gravel as the medium on which beneficial bacteria will grow. Carbon does have its uses, as Lenny also states, in those circumstances when you have a heavier than normal bioload, and also for removing medicines that are no longer needed after a treatment. One thing that Lenny seems to have missed is that carbon has a specific "life" (useful period), beyond which it will do little to nothing in purifying your water -- and when fully used, may start to release the impurities it has picked up, back into you water (there is some controversy to this). This useful life time-frame is near impossible to pin down, as its determined by how long it will take to load up on the impurities found in your water -- which is determined first of all by the amount of impurities found in your tap water, the variability of any given bioload (amount of fish, etc.) in any one person's tank including numbers and sizes of fish, any noxious gases given off by varying amounts of decaying plant matter in any one tank and any impurities the hobbyist adds to that tank, etc. In general, it is said that carbon in a filtration system may last effectively on the average of approximately one month in "normal" situations. If you still prefer to use carbon, and many hobbyists do, to err on the safe side (if there is anything to its releasing its impurities), just change it out at least that often. The carbon itself is not meant to catch any physical particles but will pull any impurities (gases, etc.) out of suspension as dissolved matter. Its always the first permeable barrier that is meant to catch the physical particles with the last medium designed specifically for biological filtration. In your case, the outer material of the cartridge is designed to first catch the physical particles. The sponge will populate nitrifying bacteria, which is placed where it can't get clogged up. This is not to say that nitrifying bacteria will not grow elsewhere in the filter, and will populate the filter cartridge bag breaking down any physical organic matter that gets trapped by it. Since you have some extra room in your filter, I'd suggest you might consider adding an extra sponge or a cartridge containing filter floss, which doesn't really need to be held in place, if it doesn't significantly slow the flow down too much. If its sandwiched between the cartridge and the sponge, it can't go too far. This will give you some extra biological filtration capacity. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > In the past when i put in a new cartridge i just buy the pre- assembled > carts, and just take out the old and put in the new. While this has had no > visible effect on my tank, in light of recent discussion, it might be > causing spikes in the levels of amonia. So you are suggesting getting the > kits that do not come assembled and you have to add the carbon to the little > cartridge? By doing this you would suggest removing the old carbon and > replacing it with a fresh pack from this kit? I am just trying to > understand. My filter has only one cartridge, so i cannot really add > another. there is room to toss another one in there, but it wouldn't be held > in place. My filter also has a very porus sponge like material that goes > between the filter and the return spout itself. I do not know the > significance of this, as the filter medium is catching any large chunks of > food or whatever may come through the filter. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > wrote: > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > > problem too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can > > cause mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, > > its always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > > change one part of the filter media, then change the other part of > > the filter media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs > > it (unless cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter > > have only one cartridge, but most have two. > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > > parts, at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter > > media using your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), > > but use a pail of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, "David > > Keymel" <azzuron@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > > at hand > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > > here > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > > cycles > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > > what is > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > > bacteria > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > > swap is > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > > what i > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > > may > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > > way > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > > note > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > interum, > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > major > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > > is > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > control. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > > one( > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > > on > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > levels > > > > of > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > does > > > > not > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > > you > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > > one > > > > of > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > determining > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > water > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > someone's > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > > first > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > above > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > message > > > > and > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > tested > > > > for > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > > next > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > 20.0ppm > > > > and > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > you do > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > > that > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > > is > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > > bacteria > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > > bloom. > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > plants, > > > > or > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > > is > > > > no > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > > done. > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > > there. > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > through a > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > additional > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > > suspect > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > know > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > > do > > > > the > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > which > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > > are > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > > still > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > > and > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > nitrogenous > > > > waste > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > removed. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > whether > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > > a > > > > typo > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > > all > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > true > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > > if > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > your > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > > convert > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > cycled, > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > cloudiness) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > > time). > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > serve > > > > to > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > their > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > feeding > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > numerous > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > nutrients > > > > you > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > plants > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > > please > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > should > > > > not > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > half > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > > any > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > > of > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > > and > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > everything > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > > yes i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > > snail > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > > and > > > > I'm > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > > i > > > > have > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > > added a > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > > gravel > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help with starting a fw planted aquarium pls

This article is a good starting point for setting up a planted tank. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htm Also check out Chuck's other planted tank articles. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm (read the substrates article) For a good DIY substrate and other natural planted tank ideas, read here and follow the links. http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/26458-what-el-natural -step-step.html Now to answer your questions. 1 - Playsand isn't the best substrate for a planted tank (see the links above for better substrates). 2 - No, as long as you have enough fast growing plants and make sure they are doing OK before adding fish (explained in the top link) 3 - Raw shrimp is the hard way. Plain ammonia is the easy way but not necessary if you are going to follow above info. 4 - Depends on whether you will be doing CO2 injection, etc. You may or may not want excess water movement depending on your other filtration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb21130 Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help with starting a fw planted aquarium pls Just want to say hi to everyone i am a newbee here to the group. I have a 40 something gal corner tank that i want to set up as a planted fresh water tank. I plan on adding some tetras and possibly a piece of drift wood and maybe some rock. As i know absolutely nothing about planted tanks i have a few questions so here they go... 1- Can i use playsand or do i have to use gravel,pebbles or something else altogeather? I want a natural look 2- Do i have to cycle the tank before adding plants ? 3- To cycle the tank do i start the process like i would a saltwater tank ex- raw shrimp untill the bacteria levels and water paramiters spike? 4- I have a powerhead from a saltwater tank i have that is extra can i use this in a f/w planted tank to help water movement? any websites you may recomend or advice is greatly appreciated Thanks _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 2:32:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31095	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

Those small whitish colored worms were likely planaria. If you saw some, you probably had hundreds of them. They are mostly nocturnal and live in the gravel but will crawl up on the glass at night more frequently. They aren't harmful and are actually helpful since they will help eat the excess detritus in your gravel.. but they are also an indicator that you aren't vacuuming your gravel enough when doing tank maintenance. Excessive snails are also an indicator that you might have been overfeeding or your guppies were breeding too much and the dying/dead babies weren't being eaten enough. Snails and planaria are both opportunistic breeders and will only become excessive if there is a lot of food for them to eat. Suck up the excess food (detritus, etc.) and they'll quit breeding and die off due to lack of food. I don't mind the planaria and snails in my cherry shrimp tank since they help eat up any of the dead cherry shrimp (and any excess detritus) when I'm not able to thin out the tank enough by trading them in at my LFS. It's hard to vacuum the substrate in that cherry shrimp tank since there are always so many baby shrimp running around. I do put a fine mesh media bag over the gravel vacuum intake and vacuum the gravel as best I can with the weekly PWC's but I count on the planaria and snails to get what I can't get since the mesh slows down the suction so much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? I had something growing in a 10 G tank that had guppies in it. And I have had tropical for ever. But even with water changes, tank clean out, these little ever so tiny WORMs were multipying so fast. At first I thought it to be "poop", but then it started sticking to the glass and they were MOVING. And they took over the tank. They were not even as thick as a piece of thread. You reakky had to look hard ot see that it was naything moving. You could hardly see them, but I knew they were there. Plus also taking over were snails. End of story..... I gave the guppies away and threw out the tank totally........ -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel > once. it was really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i > was feeding my fish less then than i do now, and after a while i was > able to just get it out via suction or with my fish net. it never came > back, so im not sure what the deal with that was. It was almost like cotton balls. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss wrote: > > > > > Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that > > looked like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a > > fungus from excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it > > is incredibly dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt > > vacummed for about a week or so since there were no fish in it. The > > water was really slimy looking though. Anyway, when I get it all the > > way emptied I will take a pic of this stuff in there. > > > > The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it > > was a large pack of like 10 > > http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants > > .aspx > > <http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plant > > s.aspx> > > > > They have only been in there a few days > > > > > > sarah > > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. > > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have > > run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to > > meet whatever comes." -unknown > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : > > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 8 > > Oct 2008 > > 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an > > organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely > > show up in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is > > always a chance but it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what > > you have. It can range in color from white to > > greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > > <greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm> (half > way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs > > for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout > > here, pet stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic > > plantsand they will live for a little while under water but > > eventually will dieand rot and foul the water.Lenny VasbinderFish > > Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> Message-----From: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > ] OnBehalf Of > > cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : > > [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my > > tank to start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost > > look like spider webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its > > white in color . I have atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they > > be?Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they > > now havewhite flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep > > eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta the > > tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: > > 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 2:40:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31096	From: Margie	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

You are right on with everything. It was a case of getting two guppies and you know the rest. They were enough babies to fill all Pet's Mart Stores if they wanted them. I did do frequent total tank clean out. I hated the snails most of all. My DH could not even see the worms, but I could. I did not have a vacuum and I did not have the heart to flush the babies. Life got in the way and I found a home for tank and guppies. Lesson learned, never have live bearers. -- Margie (Houston, TX suburb) http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- > Those small whitish colored worms were likely planaria. If you saw some, > you probably had hundreds of them. They are mostly nocturnal and live in > the gravel but will crawl up on the glass at night more frequently. They > aren't harmful and are actually helpful since they will help eat the excess > detritus in your gravel.. but they are also an indicator that you aren't > vacuuming your gravel enough when doing tank maintenance. Excessive snails > are also an indicator that you might have been overfeeding or your guppies > were breeding too much and the dying/dead babies weren't being eaten enough. > Snails and planaria are both opportunistic breeders and will only become > excessive if there is a lot of food for them to eat. Suck up the excess > food (detritus, etc.) and they'll quit breeding and die off due to lack of > food. > > I don't mind the planaria and snails in my cherry shrimp tank since they > help eat up any of the dead cherry shrimp (and any excess detritus) when I'm > not able to thin out the tank enough by trading them in at my LFS. It's > hard to vacuum the substrate in that cherry shrimp tank since there are > always so many baby shrimp running around. I do put a fine mesh media bag > over the gravel vacuum intake and vacuum the gravel as best I can with the > weekly PWC's but I count on the planaria and snails to get what I can't get > since the mesh slows down the suction so much. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > I had something growing in a 10 G tank that had guppies in it. And I have > had tropical for ever. But even with water changes, tank clean out, these > little ever so tiny WORMs were multipying so fast. At first I thought it to > be "poop", but then it started sticking to the glass and they were MOVING. > And they took over the tank. They were not even as thick as a piece of > thread. You reakky had to look hard ot see that it was naything moving. You > could hardly see them, but I knew they were there. Plus also taking over > were snails. > End of story..... I gave the guppies away and threw out the tank > totally........ > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > -------------- Original message from "David Keymel" > >: -------------- > > > You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel > > once. it was really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i > > was feeding my fish less then than i do now, and after a while i was > > able to just get it out via suction or with my fish net. it never came > > back, so im not sure what the deal with that was. It was almost like > cotton balls. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss wrote: > > > > > > > > Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that > > > looked like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a > > > fungus from excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it > > > is incredibly dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt > > > vacummed for about a week or so since there were no fish in it. The > > > water was really slimy looking though. Anyway, when I get it all the > > > way emptied I will take a pic of this stuff in there. > > > > > > The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it > > > was a large pack of like 10 > > > http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants > > > .aspx > > > > > > s.aspx> > > > > > > They have only been in there a few days > > > > > > > > > sarah > > > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it > comes. > > > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have > > > run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to > > > meet whatever comes." -unknown > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > : > > > GoldLenny@... : Wed, 8 > > > Oct 2008 > > > 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > > > There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an > > > organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely > > > show up in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is > > > always a chance but it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what > > > you have. It can range in color from white to > > > greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > > > (half > > way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs > > > for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout > > > here, pet stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic > > > plantsand they will live for a little while under water but > > > eventually will dieand rot and foul the water.Lenny VasbinderFish > > > Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original > Message-----From: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > ] OnBehalf Of > > > cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject > : > > > [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my > > > tank to start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost > > > look like spider webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its > > > white in color . I have atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they > > > be?Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they > > > now havewhite flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep > > > eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta the > > > tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. Virus > Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: > > > 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > Tested on: 10/8/2008 2:40:37 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31097	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

Thats what i suspected. It sort of popped up rather quick and i do vacuum the tank once a week, the areas that are not covered by decorations. I find that most of the areas i have decorated do not have much to offer up when vacuuming. I do those ones a month or so. Once it went away its never come back. --Dave On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > That likely is mold growing from having excess detritus in the gravel. > Are > you vacuuming your gravel out on a regular basis? > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 11:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel once. it > was really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i was feeding > my > fish less then than i do now, and after a while i was able to just get it > out via suction or with my fish net. it never came back, so im not sure > what > the deal with that was. It was almost like cotton balls. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...<cheese911%40hotmail.com> > <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com <cheese911%2540hotmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that > > looked like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a > > fungus from excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it > > is incredibly dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt vacummed > > for about a week or so since there were no fish in it. The water was > > really slimy looking though. Anyway, when I get it all the way emptied > > I will take a pic of this stuff in there. > > > > The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it > > was a large pack of like 10 > > http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants.a > > spx > > <http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants. > > aspx> > > > > They have only been in there a few days > > > > > > sarah > > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. > > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have > > run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to > > meet whatever comes." -unknown > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.comFrom> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: > > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto: > GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate <GoldLenny%2540gmail.comDate>> > > <GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 > > 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an > > organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely > > show up in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is always > > a chance but it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what you have. > > It can range in color from white to > > greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > > <greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm> (half way down > > on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs for aquatic > > plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout here, pet stores > > will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plantsand they will live > for > a little while under water but eventually will dieand rot and foul the > water.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> Message-----From: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of > > cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.comSubject> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>: > > [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my > > tank to start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost > > look like spider webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its > > white in color . I have atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they > > be?Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they now > > havewhite flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep eatting. > > What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta the tank?Sarah_____ avast! > > Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): > 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: > > 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 > Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:23:30 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 > Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:41:06 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31098	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

Sorry it took so long, my tummy has the best of me today so I was taking myself a little nap. Anyway, I uploaded the photo into Cheesey Photos. It should be up after approval. It sounds like the white cottony stuff though, expecially since I hadnt cleaned the tank for a couple of weeks and I was feeding my dieing fish but I doubt they were eatting it. Sarah --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > You are right on with everything. It was a case of getting two guppies and you know the rest. They were enough babies to fill all Pet's Mart Stores if they wanted them. I did do frequent total tank clean out. I hated the snails most of all. My DH could not even see the worms, but I could. I did not have a vacuum and I did not have the heart to flush the babies. Life got in the way and I found a home for tank and guppies. Lesson learned, never have live bearers. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- > > > > Those small whitish colored worms were likely planaria. If you saw some, > > you probably had hundreds of them. They are mostly nocturnal and live in > > the gravel but will crawl up on the glass at night more frequently. They > > aren't harmful and are actually helpful since they will help eat the excess > > detritus in your gravel.. but they are also an indicator that you aren't > > vacuuming your gravel enough when doing tank maintenance. Excessive snails > > are also an indicator that you might have been overfeeding or your guppies > > were breeding too much and the dying/dead babies weren't being eaten enough. > > Snails and planaria are both opportunistic breeders and will only become > > excessive if there is a lot of food for them to eat. Suck up the excess > > food (detritus, etc.) and they'll quit breeding and die off due to lack of > > food. > > > > I don't mind the planaria and snails in my cherry shrimp tank since they > > help eat up any of the dead cherry shrimp (and any excess detritus) when I'm > > not able to thin out the tank enough by trading them in at my LFS. It's > > hard to vacuum the substrate in that cherry shrimp tank since there are > > always so many baby shrimp running around. I do put a fine mesh media bag > > over the gravel vacuum intake and vacuum the gravel as best I can with the > > weekly PWC's but I count on the planaria and snails to get what I can't get > > since the mesh slows down the suction so much. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Margie > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > I had something growing in a 10 G tank that had guppies in it. And I have > > had tropical for ever. But even with water changes, tank clean out, these > > little ever so tiny WORMs were multipying so fast. At first I thought it to > > be "poop", but then it started sticking to the glass and they were MOVING. > > And they took over the tank. They were not even as thick as a piece of > > thread. You reakky had to look hard ot see that it was naything moving. You > > could hardly see them, but I knew they were there. Plus also taking over > > were snails. > > End of story..... I gave the guppies away and threw out the tank > > totally........ > > -- > > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > -------------- Original message from "David Keymel" > >: --------- ----- > > > > > You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel > > > once. it was really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i > > > was feeding my fish less then than i do now, and after a while i was > > > able to just get it out via suction or with my fish net. it never came > > > back, so im not sure what the deal with that was. It was almost like > > cotton balls. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that > > > > looked like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a > > > > fungus from excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it > > > > is incredibly dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt > > > > vacummed for about a week or so since there were no fish in it. The > > > > water was really slimy looking though. Anyway, when I get it all the > > > > way emptied I will take a pic of this stuff in there. > > > > > > > > The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it > > > > was a large pack of like 10 > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium- Plants > > > > .aspx > > > > > > > s.aspx> > > > > > > > > They have only been in there a few days > > > > > > > > > > > > sarah > > > > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it > > comes. > > > > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have > > > > run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to > > > > meet whatever comes." -unknown > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@... > > : > > > > GoldLenny@... : Wed, 8 > > > > Oct 2008 > > > > 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > > > > > There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an > > > > organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely > > > > show up in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is > > > > always a chance but it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what > > > > you have. It can range in color from white to > > > > greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > > > > (half > > > way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs > > > > for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout > > > > here, pet stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic > > > > plantsand they will live for a little while under water but > > > > eventually will dieand rot and foul the water.Lenny VasbinderFish > > > > Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original > > Message-----From: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > ] OnBehalf Of > > > > cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: > > > > AquaticLife@... > > : > > > > [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my > > > > tank to start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost > > > > look like spider webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its > > > > white in color . I have atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they > > > > be?Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they > > > > now havewhite flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep > > > > eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta the > > > > tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. Virus > > Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: > > > > 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > > Tested on: 10/8/2008 2:40:37 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸>< ((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º ((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31099	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

Sorry it took so long, my tummy has the best of me today so I was taking myself a little nap. Anyway, I uploaded the photo into Cheesey Photos. It should be up after approval. It sounds like the white cottony stuff though, expecially since I hadnt cleaned the tank for a couple of weeks and I was feeding my dieing fish but I doubt they were eatting it. Sarah --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > You are right on with everything. It was a case of getting two guppies and you know the rest. They were enough babies to fill all Pet's Mart Stores if they wanted them. I did do frequent total tank clean out. I hated the snails most of all. My DH could not even see the worms, but I could. I did not have a vacuum and I did not have the heart to flush the babies. Life got in the way and I found a home for tank and guppies. Lesson learned, never have live bearers. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- > > > > Those small whitish colored worms were likely planaria. If you saw some, > > you probably had hundreds of them. They are mostly nocturnal and live in > > the gravel but will crawl up on the glass at night more frequently. They > > aren't harmful and are actually helpful since they will help eat the excess > > detritus in your gravel.. but they are also an indicator that you aren't > > vacuuming your gravel enough when doing tank maintenance. Excessive snails > > are also an indicator that you might have been overfeeding or your guppies > > were breeding too much and the dying/dead babies weren't being eaten enough. > > Snails and planaria are both opportunistic breeders and will only become > > excessive if there is a lot of food for them to eat. Suck up the excess > > food (detritus, etc.) and they'll quit breeding and die off due to lack of > > food. > > > > I don't mind the planaria and snails in my cherry shrimp tank since they > > help eat up any of the dead cherry shrimp (and any excess detritus) when I'm > > not able to thin out the tank enough by trading them in at my LFS. It's > > hard to vacuum the substrate in that cherry shrimp tank since there are > > always so many baby shrimp running around. I do put a fine mesh media bag > > over the gravel vacuum intake and vacuum the gravel as best I can with the > > weekly PWC's but I count on the planaria and snails to get what I can't get > > since the mesh slows down the suction so much. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Margie > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > I had something growing in a 10 G tank that had guppies in it. And I have > > had tropical for ever. But even with water changes, tank clean out, these > > little ever so tiny WORMs were multipying so fast. At first I thought it to > > be "poop", but then it started sticking to the glass and they were MOVING. > > And they took over the tank. They were not even as thick as a piece of > > thread. You reakky had to look hard ot see that it was naything moving. You > > could hardly see them, but I knew they were there. Plus also taking over > > were snails. > > End of story..... I gave the guppies away and threw out the tank > > totally........ > > -- > > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > -------------- Original message from "David Keymel" > >: --------- ----- > > > > > You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel > > > once. it was really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i > > > was feeding my fish less then than i do now, and after a while i was > > > able to just get it out via suction or with my fish net. it never came > > > back, so im not sure what the deal with that was. It was almost like > > cotton balls. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that > > > > looked like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a > > > > fungus from excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it > > > > is incredibly dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt > > > > vacummed for about a week or so since there were no fish in it. The > > > > water was really slimy looking though. Anyway, when I get it all the > > > > way emptied I will take a pic of this stuff in there. > > > > > > > > The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it > > > > was a large pack of like 10 > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium- Plants > > > > .aspx > > > > > > > s.aspx> > > > > > > > > They have only been in there a few days > > > > > > > > > > > > sarah > > > > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it > > comes. > > > > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have > > > > run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to > > > > meet whatever comes." -unknown > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@... > > : > > > > GoldLenny@... : Wed, 8 > > > > Oct 2008 > > > > 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > > > > > There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an > > > > organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely > > > > show up in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is > > > > always a chance but it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what > > > > you have. It can range in color from white to > > > > greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > > > > (half > > > way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs > > > > for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout > > > > here, pet stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic > > > > plantsand they will live for a little while under water but > > > > eventually will dieand rot and foul the water.Lenny VasbinderFish > > > > Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original > > Message-----From: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > ] OnBehalf Of > > > > cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: > > > > AquaticLife@... > > : > > > > [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my > > > > tank to start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost > > > > look like spider webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its > > > > white in color . I have atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they > > > > be?Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they > > > > now havewhite flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep > > > > eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta the > > > > tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. Virus > > Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: > > > > 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > > Tested on: 10/8/2008 2:40:37 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸>< ((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º ((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31100	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Good to know, it will save me alot of money in the future, figure you change it every month like they say, or even every couple months because it looks fine to me! ;) --Dave On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > The majority of aquariums do not even need to be running carbon in their > filtration all of the time. > > IMO, that is just something that the filter manufacturers have sold on > people to increase their sales. As long as you are doing weekly PWC's, > vacuuming your gravel and doing proper filter maintenance, you should not > have enough impurities in the water where carbon is needed. > > Now, carbon or other chemical filtration is helpful on heavily stocked > tanks > or to remove some added medicine that needs to be removed but not for most > everyday purposes. > > Since your filter does have the thin sponge media also, that is a good > place > where the good bacteria will be living on all of the surface areas of the > sponge so you definitely only want to rinse that off in removed tank water > only, maybe squeeze it once or twice in removed tank water but do not clean > that off good ever. > > Like I said earlier, you don't even need to ever change that cartridge or > sponge unless or until it's literally starting to fall apart, which will > take years. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > In the past when i put in a new cartridge i just buy the pre-assembled > carts, and just take out the old and put in the new. While this has had no > visible effect on my tank, in light of recent discussion, it might be > causing spikes in the levels of amonia. So you are suggesting getting the > kits that do not come assembled and you have to add the carbon to the > little > cartridge? By doing this you would suggest removing the old carbon and > replacing it with a fresh pack from this kit? I am just trying to > understand. My filter has only one cartridge, so i cannot really add > another. there is room to toss another one in there, but it wouldn't be > held > in place. My filter also has a very porus sponge like material that goes > between the filter and the return spout itself. I do not know the > significance of this, as the filter medium is catching any large chunks of > food or whatever may come through the filter. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Raymond Wetzel < > sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com <sevenspringss%2540wmconnect.com>> > > wrote: > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his problem > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just change > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the filter > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it (unless > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only one > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two parts, > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media using > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use a pail > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > > at hand > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > > here > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > > cycles > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > > what is > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > > bacteria > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > > swap is > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > > what i > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > <sevenspringss@...>wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > > may > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > > way > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > > note > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > interum, > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > major > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > > is > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > control. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > > one( > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > > on > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > levels > > > > of > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > does > > > > not > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > > you > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > > one > > > > of > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > determining > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > water > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > someone's > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > > first > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > above > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > message > > > > and > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > tested > > > > for > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > > next > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > 20.0ppm > > > > and > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > you do > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > > that > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > > is > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > > bacteria > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > > bloom. > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > plants, > > > > or > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > > is > > > > no > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > > done. > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > > there. > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > through a > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > additional > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > > suspect > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > know > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > > do > > > > the > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > which > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > > are > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > > still > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > > and > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > nitrogenous > > > > waste > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > removed. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > whether > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > > a > > > > typo > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > > all > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > true > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > > if > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > your > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > > convert > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > cycled, > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > cloudiness) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > > time). > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > serve > > > > to > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > their > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > feeding > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > numerous > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > nutrients > > > > you > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > plants > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > > please > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > should > > > > not > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > half > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > > any > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > > of > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > > and > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > everything > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > > yes i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > > snail > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > > and > > > > I'm > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > > i > > > > have > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > > added a > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > > gravel > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 > Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:23:28 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 > Tested on: 10/8/2008 12:38:52 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31101	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Thanks Roy. I will probably continue to replace carbon every now and again, as you say to be safe. Especially if you can get it in bulk bags it will probably be worth it. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...>wrote: > Most people change out a filter cartridge in this way, by just > replacing the old with the new, as its a bit more convenient to just > make the swap. You don't need to go to that expense though, if you > prefer to keep using carbon as a filter medium, as you can buy it in > bulk and just change the old carbon for new by slitting the top of > your filter media bag to gain access to it, dumping the old and > replacing it with fresh. No need to keep buying fresh cartridges. > > As Lenny points out though, the majority of aquariums don't need to > be running carbon in the filtration system, although I would not > remove that cartridge altogether since the more area you have in some > type of medium, the greater the opportunity for beneficial bacteria > to grow over it. You will only have as much nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter as the bioload will supply nutrients > (nitrogenous waste) to it, but this way it will be more spread out > and when you do clean a portion of it (or finally change a cartridge > that will last a good while), you will still have a good amount of > this bacteria to keep the cycle going fairly well -- even if you do > have a "mini" - mini-cycle at that time. While I did say not to > remove the cartridge altogether, my point is that some hobbyists > (knowing that carbon is not really needed at most times) dump the > carbon from the cartridge after its spent and replace it with > aquarium gravel as the medium on which beneficial bacteria will grow. > > Carbon does have its uses, as Lenny also states, in those > circumstances when you have a heavier than normal bioload, and also > for removing medicines that are no longer needed after a treatment. > One thing that Lenny seems to have missed is that carbon has a > specific "life" (useful period), beyond which it will do little to > nothing in purifying your water -- and when fully used, may start to > release the impurities it has picked up, back into you water (there > is some controversy to this). This useful life time-frame is near > impossible to pin down, as its determined by how long it will take to > load up on the impurities found in your water -- which is determined > first of all by the amount of impurities found in your tap water, the > variability of any given bioload (amount of fish, etc.) in any one > person's tank including numbers and sizes of fish, any noxious gases > given off by varying amounts of decaying plant matter in any one tank > and any impurities the hobbyist adds to that tank, etc. In general, > it is said that carbon in a filtration system may last effectively on > the average of approximately one month in "normal" situations. > > If you still prefer to use carbon, and many hobbyists do, to err on > the safe side (if there is anything to its releasing its impurities), > just change it out at least that often. The carbon itself is not > meant to catch any physical particles but will pull any impurities > (gases, etc.) out of suspension as dissolved matter. Its always the > first permeable barrier that is meant to catch the physical particles > with the last medium designed specifically for biological > filtration. In your case, the outer material of the cartridge is > designed to first catch the physical particles. The sponge will > populate nitrifying bacteria, which is placed where it can't get > clogged up. This is not to say that nitrifying bacteria will not > grow elsewhere in the filter, and will populate the filter cartridge > bag breaking down any physical organic matter that gets trapped by it. > > Since you have some extra room in your filter, I'd suggest you might > consider adding an extra sponge or a cartridge containing filter > floss, which doesn't really need to be held in place, if it doesn't > significantly slow the flow down too much. If its sandwiched between > the cartridge and the sponge, it can't go too far. This will give > you some extra biological filtration capacity. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "David > Keymel" <azzuron@...> > wrote: > > > > In the past when i put in a new cartridge i just buy the pre- > assembled > > carts, and just take out the old and put in the new. While this has > had no > > visible effect on my tank, in light of recent discussion, it might > be > > causing spikes in the levels of amonia. So you are suggesting > getting the > > kits that do not come assembled and you have to add the carbon to > the little > > cartridge? By doing this you would suggest removing the old carbon > and > > replacing it with a fresh pack from this kit? I am just trying to > > understand. My filter has only one cartridge, so i cannot really add > > another. there is room to toss another one in there, but it > wouldn't be held > > in place. My filter also has a very porus sponge like material that > goes > > between the filter and the return spout itself. I do not know the > > significance of this, as the filter medium is catching any large > chunks of > > food or whatever may come through the filter. > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > its > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > > > problem too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can > > > cause mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, > > > its always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > > > change one part of the filter media, then change the other part of > > > the filter media the next time you do filter maintenance if it > needs > > > it (unless cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter > > > have only one cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > > > parts, at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter > > > media using your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying > bacteria), > > > but use a pail of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, "David > > > > Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > topic > > > at hand > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > > > here > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, > mini > > > cycles > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question > is, > > > what is > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > > > bacteria > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > > > swap is > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? > I am > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > > > what i > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > way > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > you > > > may > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > one > > > way > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not > yet > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > should not > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I > do > > > note > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > interum, > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > > major > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > cloudiness > > > is > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep > us > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > given by > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > control. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > have > > > one( > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it > back > > > on > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > > levels > > > > > of > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > which > > > you > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > are 3 > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > each > > > one > > > > > of > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results > for > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > determining > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > > water > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > as the > > > > > first > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > > above > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > message > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > > tested > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > 0.01ppm is > > > > > next > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > well > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > > you do > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but > not > > > > > that > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > reading > > > is > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required > of > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > bacterial > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > plants, > > > > > or > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > There > > > is > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't > be > > > > > done. > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can > get > > > > > there. > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > through a > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > also > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > > know > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > just > > > do > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > > which > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > If you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > (and > > > > > still > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > look for > > > > > and > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > nitrogenous > > > > > waste > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > removed. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > > whether > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you > made > > > a > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > concentrations at > > > all > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > > true > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > completed > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > enough to > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > cycled, > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > short > > > > > time). > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > > serve > > > > > to > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > contains > > > their > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > the > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > numerous > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount > and > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > nutrients > > > > > you > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > > plants > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > should > > > > > not > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead > do > > > half > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel > > > of > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > bloom > > > and > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > everything > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > and > > > yes i > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > loaches > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > now > > > and > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to > the > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > already. > > > i > > > > > have > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > today. I > > > > > added a > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all > the > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31102	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the chlorine/chloramine in tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. After all, if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents to disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking something for at least five minutes or more before the low level of chlorine/chloramine in tap water to actually kill any bacteria. The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the usually abrupt pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts the N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to harm/death. This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank water so the water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are acclimated to. I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to some tap water and then clean their filter media in that water but they would likely suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way because of the temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a drastic change in water parameters. It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands grabbing their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw their "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even more... well, you get the picture. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter medium, and i changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his problem > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just change > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the filter > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it (unless > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only one > cartridge, but most have two. > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two parts, > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media using > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use a pail > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > wrote: > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > at hand > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > here > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > cycles > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > what is > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > bacteria > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > swap is > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > what i > > currently have. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > may > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > way > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > note > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > interum, > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > major > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > is > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > control. > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > one( > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > on > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > levels > > > of > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > does > > > not > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > you > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > one > > > of > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > determining > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > water > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > someone's > > > > > post > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > first > > > > > one > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > above > > > > > your > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > message > > > and > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > tested > > > for > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > next > > > > > to > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > established > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > 20.0ppm > > > and > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > you do > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > that > > > > > much > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > is > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > bacteria > > > > > as > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > bloom. > > > > > Most > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > plants, > > > or > > > > > at > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > is > > > no > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > done. > > > > > You > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > there. > > > > > For > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > through a > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > additional > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > suspect > > > > > of > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > know > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > do > > > the > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > which > > > > > might > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > are > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > still > > > > > might > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > and > > > > > fish > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > nitrogenous > > > waste > > > > > if > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > removed. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > whether > > > > > this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > a > > > typo > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > all > > > > > (and > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > true > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > if > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > convert > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > cycled, > > > will > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > cloudiness) > > > > > which > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > time). > > > > > Just > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > serve > > > to > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > their > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > cloudiness, > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > feeding > > > > > off of > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > numerous > > > > > enough > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > nutrients > > > you > > > > > may > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > plants > > > > > when > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > please > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > should > > > not > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > half > > > the > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > any > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > of > > > an > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > and > > > > > extend > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > everything > > > > > to > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > yes i > > > > > have > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > snail > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > and > > > I'm > > > > > at > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > nutrafin > > > > > test > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > i > > > have > > > > > not > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > added a > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > gravel > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:34:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31103	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

Yep... that looks like mold growing on detritus in/on the gravel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Spiderwebs? Sorry it took so long, my tummy has the best of me today so I was taking myself a little nap. Anyway, I uploaded the photo into Cheesey Photos. It should be up after approval. It sounds like the white cottony stuff though, expecially since I hadnt cleaned the tank for a couple of weeks and I was feeding my dieing fish but I doubt they were eatting it. Sarah --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > You are right on with everything. It was a case of getting two guppies and you know the rest. They were enough babies to fill all Pet's Mart Stores if they wanted them. I did do frequent total tank clean out. I hated the snails most of all. My DH could not even see the worms, but I could. I did not have a vacuum and I did not have the heart to flush the babies. Life got in the way and I found a home for tank and guppies. Lesson learned, never have live bearers. > -- > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- > > > > Those small whitish colored worms were likely planaria. If you saw some, > > you probably had hundreds of them. They are mostly nocturnal and live in > > the gravel but will crawl up on the glass at night more frequently. They > > aren't harmful and are actually helpful since they will help eat the excess > > detritus in your gravel.. but they are also an indicator that you aren't > > vacuuming your gravel enough when doing tank maintenance. Excessive snails > > are also an indicator that you might have been overfeeding or your guppies > > were breeding too much and the dying/dead babies weren't being eaten enough. > > Snails and planaria are both opportunistic breeders and will only become > > excessive if there is a lot of food for them to eat. Suck up the excess > > food (detritus, etc.) and they'll quit breeding and die off due to lack of > > food. > > > > I don't mind the planaria and snails in my cherry shrimp tank since they > > help eat up any of the dead cherry shrimp (and any excess detritus) when I'm > > not able to thin out the tank enough by trading them in at my LFS. It's > > hard to vacuum the substrate in that cherry shrimp tank since there are > > always so many baby shrimp running around. I do put a fine mesh media bag > > over the gravel vacuum intake and vacuum the gravel as best I can with the > > weekly PWC's but I count on the planaria and snails to get what I can't get > > since the mesh slows down the suction so much. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Margie > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > I had something growing in a 10 G tank that had guppies in it. And I have > > had tropical for ever. But even with water changes, tank clean out, these > > little ever so tiny WORMs were multipying so fast. At first I thought it to > > be "poop", but then it started sticking to the glass and they were MOVING. > > And they took over the tank. They were not even as thick as a piece of > > thread. You reakky had to look hard ot see that it was naything moving. You > > could hardly see them, but I knew they were there. Plus also taking over > > were snails. > > End of story..... I gave the guppies away and threw out the tank > > totally........ > > -- > > Margie (Houston, TX suburb) > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > > > -------------- Original message from "David Keymel" > >: --------- ----- > > > > > You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel > > > once. it was really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i > > > was feeding my fish less then than i do now, and after a while i was > > > able to just get it out via suction or with my fish net. it never came > > > back, so im not sure what the deal with that was. It was almost like > > cotton balls. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that > > > > looked like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a > > > > fungus from excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it > > > > is incredibly dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt > > > > vacummed for about a week or so since there were no fish in it. The > > > > water was really slimy looking though. Anyway, when I get it all the > > > > way emptied I will take a pic of this stuff in there. > > > > > > > > The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it > > > > was a large pack of like 10 > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium- > > > > <http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-> Plants > > > > .aspx > > > > > > > s.aspx> > > > > > > > > They have only been in there a few days > > > > > > > > > > > > sarah > > > > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it > > comes. > > > > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have > > > > run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to > > > > meet whatever comes." -unknown > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@... > > : > > > > GoldLenny@... : Wed, 8 > > > > Oct 2008 > > > > 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > > > > > There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an > > > > organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely > > > > show up in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is > > > > always a chance but it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what > > > > you have. It can range in color from white to > > > > greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > > > > <greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm> > > > > (half > > > way down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs > > > > for aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout > > > > here, pet stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic > > > > plantsand they will live for a little while under water but > > > > eventually will dieand rot and foul the water.Lenny VasbinderFish > > > > Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > Message-----From: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > ] OnBehalf Of > > > > cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: > > > > AquaticLife@... > > : > > > > [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my > > > > tank to start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost > > > > look like spider webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its > > > > white in color . I have atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they > > > > be?Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they > > > > now havewhite flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep > > > > eatting. What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta the > > > > tank?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. Virus > > Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: > > > > 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 > > 2:40:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸>< ((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º ((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:36:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:38:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31104	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of my

The growth of this white, hairy algae or whatever all over the gravel coincides with the removal of the tank's plec to a larger tank, so I'm wondering if this is something the plec kept under control. It doesn't appear to be affecting the fish. I don't want to get another plec, since they grow so large, but perhaps some other bottom-feeder could be useful, and if so, what? Your advice please.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31105	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of

Get a couple of dwarf plecos they don’t get too big some are even only a few inches long. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 4:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of my platy tank? The growth of this white, hairy algae or whatever all over the gravel coincides with the removal of the tank's plec to a larger tank, so I'm wondering if this is something the plec kept under control. It doesn't appear to be affecting the fish. I don't want to get another plec, since they grow so large, but perhaps some other bottom-feeder could be useful, and if so, what? Your advice please. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31106	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of

If it looks like the photo that was just uploaded by Cheesey http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/907c?b=2 then that is likely mold/fungus growing on excess detritus (uneaten food, fish poop, etc.) in the tanks gravel. Do you deep vacuum your gravel on a weekly or other regular basis? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 4:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of my platy tank? The growth of this white, hairy algae or whatever all over the gravel coincides with the removal of the tank's plec to a larger tank, so I'm wondering if this is something the plec kept under control. It doesn't appear to be affecting the fish. I don't want to get another plec, since they grow so large, but perhaps some other bottom-feeder could be useful, and if so, what? Your advice please. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 5:15:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31107	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Spiderwebs?

Something I think I should touch on... when talking about vacuuming the gravel, it's not just vacuuming the surface of the gravel but I shove the gravel vacuum tube down into the gravel in one spot and leave it there until it's sucking up mostly clean water, usually after a few seconds. Then I move it over to the next spot and repeat this until I've done as much gravel as I can during a 25% PWC. In my goldfish tank, where I only have 1/2" to 1" of gravel, I can usually do a large part of the tank during a PWC but usually I'll just do 1/2 the tank each week since I have two sections of plexiglass covering each 1/2 of the tank so I leave one section of the plexiglass in place to hold all the "stuff" I keep on top of the tank. The next week, I move all the "stuff" over to the other half. Of course, in planted tanks, you wouldn't do this deep gravel cleaning too close to the plants so you do not harm their roots and planted tanks are more able to utilize all of this excess detritus as food for the plant which doesn't happen in unplanted tanks. For decorations (driftwood, large rocks, the infamous treasure chest (lol), etc.), they should be moved on at least a monthly basis to vacuum out under them, when possible. I say when possible because sometimes a piece of driftwood might be too large or have plants growing on or through them where they can't be easily moved but like I mentioned earlier, in a planted tank, deep cleaning isn't as much of a necessity. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 3:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? Thats what i suspected. It sort of popped up rather quick and i do vacuum the tank once a week, the areas that are not covered by decorations. I find that most of the areas i have decorated do not have much to offer up when vacuuming. I do those ones a month or so. Once it went away its never come back. --Dave On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >wrote: > That likely is mold growing from having excess detritus in the gravel. > Are > you vacuuming your gravel out on a regular basis? > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 11:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > You know.... i had this weird white fluff stuff grow in my gravel > once. it was really odd. I am not sure what really caused it because i > was feeding my fish less then than i do now, and after a while i was > able to just get it out via suction or with my fish net. it never came > back, so im not sure what the deal with that was. It was almost like > cotton balls. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Huss <cheese911@... > <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com> <cheese911%40hotmail.com> <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.com <cheese911%2540hotmail.com> >> > wrote: > > > > > Nope, not that stuff. I actually didnt see any on that website that > > looked like mine. I did some searching and found that it may be a > > fungus from excess food. As I was emptying my tank I noticed that it > > is incredibly dirty! I had the filter running still but hadnt > > vacummed for about a week or so since there were no fish in it. The > > water was really slimy looking though. Anyway, when I get it all the > > way emptied I will take a pic of this stuff in there. > > > > The plants were sold as aquarium bulbs. This is what I bought but it > > was a large pack of like 10 > > http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plants > > .a > > <http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plant > > s.a> > > spx > > <http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plant > > s. > > <http://www.petco.com/product/9452/Grow-Your-Own-Live-Aquarium-Plant > > s.> > > aspx> > > > > They have only been in there a few days > > > > > > sarah > > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. > > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have > > run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to > > meet whatever comes." -unknown > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups. > comFrom> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: > > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto: > GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate <GoldLenny%2540gmail.comDate>> > > <GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 > > 10:11:33 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs? > > > > There is a Filamentous algae that looks more like a cobweb than an > > organizedspider web... but there are terrestrial spiders that rarely > > show up in tanksas well that can survive underwater so there is > > always a chance but it'smore than likely algae.See if this is what you have. > > It can range in color from white to > > greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > > <greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm> > > <greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm > > <greenishtint.http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm> > (half way > > down on this page ispicture of Filamentous algae)Were the bulbs for > > aquatic plants? As previously mentioned by me and othersout here, > > pet stores will often sell terrestrial plants as aquatic plantsand > > they will live > for > a little while under water but eventually will dieand rot and foul the > water.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com-----Original> > > Message-----From: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of > > cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:45 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject<AquaticLife%2540yahoogrou > ps.comSubject> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>: > > [AquaticLife] Spiderwebs?Okay, so I am getting ready to empty out my > > tank to start fresh and I lookdown and find these spots that almost > > look like spider webs in my tank. Itskinda like a funnel web and its > > white in color . I have atleast 5 of thesethings. What could they > > be?Also, I planted some various bulbs in my smaller tank and they > > now havewhite flowy webby things on them as well. My mollies keep eatting. > > What isthis? Should I take the bulbs outta the tank?Sarah_____ avast! > > Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): > 081008-0, 10/08/2008Tested on: > > 10/8/2008 10:11:33 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 > 12:23:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-0, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 > 12:41:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 5:16:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 5:37:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31108	From: pam andress	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of

Not all plecos get large. Bristle nose plecos are great for algae and they don't get that big. About 4-5 inches. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: shrlycat@...: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 21:39:18 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of my platy tank? The growth of this white, hairy algae or whatever all over the gravelcoincides with the removal of the tank's plec to a larger tank, so I'mwondering if this is something the plec kept under control. It doesn'tappear to be affecting the fish. I don't want to get another plec,since they grow so large, but perhaps some other bottom-feeder couldbe useful, and if so, what? Your advice please. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31109	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of

Depending on tank size, even the smaller pleco species could be too large. There are the very small Otos but they should be kept in a group of five or more so then you are right back up to a heavier bioload potential. For 20G or less, and for minimal bioload on the tank, I'd probably go with a couple of Mystery Snails (Gold, Black, Purple and probably other colors). They'll nibble on algae, uneaten food, etc. They don't multiply like some other nuisance snails and if they do, they'll lay a rather large clutch of eggs above the water line so they can be removed if you don't want snail babies (did anyone say caviar? lol). MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails) are also a good snail since they don't breed like crazy either and they are known for burrowing into the substrate (although it has to be light enough). Nerite snails are another snail that is growing in popularity as they do not breed at all in freshwater. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:39 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of my platy tank? Not all plecos get large. Bristle nose plecos are great for algae and they don't get that big. About 4-5 inches. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : shrlycat@... <mailto:shrlycat%40yahoo.comDate> : Wed, 8 Oct 2008 21:39:18 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of my platy tank? The growth of this white, hairy algae or whatever all over the gravelcoincides with the removal of the tank's plec to a larger tank, so I'mwondering if this is something the plec kept under control. It doesn'tappear to be affecting the fish. I don't want to get another plec,since they grow so large, but perhaps some other bottom-feeder couldbe useful, and if so, what? Your advice please. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 6:11:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31110	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my tank, and i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish seem ok with it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think thats why. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the chlorine/chloramine > in > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. After all, > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents to > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking something for at > least five minutes or more before the low level of chlorine/chloramine in > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the usually abrupt > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts the > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to harm/death. > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank water so > the > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are acclimated to. > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to some tap > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they would likely > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way because of the > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a drastic change > in > water parameters. > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands grabbing > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw their > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even more... > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter medium, and > i > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> , > "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his problem > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just change > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the filter > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it (unless > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only one > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two parts, > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media using > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use a pail > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > > at hand > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > > here > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > > cycles > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > > what is > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > > bacteria > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > > swap is > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > > what i > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > > may > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > > way > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > > note > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > interum, > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > major > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > > is > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > control. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > > one( > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > > on > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > levels > > > > of > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > does > > > > not > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > > you > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > > one > > > > of > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > determining > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > water > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > someone's > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > > first > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > above > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > message > > > > and > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > tested > > > > for > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > > next > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > 20.0ppm > > > > and > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > you do > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > > that > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > > is > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > > bacteria > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > > bloom. > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > plants, > > > > or > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > > is > > > > no > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > > done. > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > > there. > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > through a > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > additional > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > > suspect > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > know > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > > do > > > > the > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > which > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > > are > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > > still > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > > and > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > nitrogenous > > > > waste > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > removed. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > whether > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > > a > > > > typo > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > > all > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > true > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > > if > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > your > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > > convert > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > cycled, > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > cloudiness) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > > time). > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > serve > > > > to > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > their > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > feeding > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > numerous > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > nutrients > > > > you > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > plants > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > > please > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > should > > > > not > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > half > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > > any > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > > of > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > > and > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > everything > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > > yes i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > > snail > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > > and > > > > I'm > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > > i > > > > have > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > > added a > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > > gravel > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:34:19 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31111	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of

That looks pretty much like what i had in my tank to. kinda makes me wonder if i forgot to clean my tank one week or something? Well that was before i had my corey cats also, so that might make a difference. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > If it looks like the photo that was just uploaded by Cheesey > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/907c?b=2then > that is likely mold/fungus growing on excess detritus (uneaten food, fish > poop, etc.) in the tanks gravel. Do you deep vacuum your gravel on a weekly > or other regular basis? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Shirley Reichard > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 4:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on > the gravel of my platy tank? > > The growth of this white, hairy algae or whatever all over the gravel > coincides with the removal of the tank's plec to a larger tank, so I'm > wondering if this is something the plec kept under control. It doesn't > appear to be affecting the fish. I don't want to get another plec, since > they grow so large, but perhaps some other bottom-feeder could be useful, > and if so, what? Your advice please. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > Tested on: 10/8/2008 5:15:34 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31112	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2008
Subject: Re: Pleco feeding (was Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help)

A pH of 7.2 to 7.6 isn't high at all. It's probably the most preferred pH range for most community type fish. I doubt your pleco's die from that pH either. They are usually quite hardy and easily acclimate to a broad range of pH levels... but one reason that pleco's commonly die is from starvation... not that this was your problem either but many folks think that they are getting a pleco to eat algae and scavenge for stuff off the bottom Other people think plecos will actually eat fish poop. Neither of those are correct assumptions. A nice and detailed article on proper feeding of plecos can be read here... http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my tank, and i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish seem ok with it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think thats why. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >wrote: > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > chlorine/chloramine in tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in > the filter media. After all, if tap water had enough > chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria instantly, we wouldn't have > to use more stringent cleaning agents to disinfect things. From all > I've read it would take soaking something for at least five minutes or > more before the low level of chlorine/chloramine in tap water to > actually kill any bacteria. > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the usually > abrupt pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > the N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to harm/death. > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank water > so the water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > acclimated to. > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to some > tap water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > would likely suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this > way because of the temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by > such a drastic change in water parameters. > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > grabbing their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then > throw their "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even more... > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter medium, > and i changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake > again. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> , > "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > > problem too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can > > cause mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, > > its always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > > change one part of the filter media, then change the other part of > > the filter media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs > > it (unless cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter > > have only one cartridge, but most have two. > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > > parts, at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter > > media using your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), > > but use a pail of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > > at hand > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > > here > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, > > > mini > > cycles > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > > what is > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > > bacteria > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > > swap is > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I > > > am speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that > > > is > > what i > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > > > > cloudy tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now > > > > indicate you > > may > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > > > > lights being left off for one day would not affect this > > > > cloudiness one > > way > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should > > > > not affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > > note > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > > > > don't know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in > > > > the > > interum, > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > major > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > > is > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given > > > > by others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > control. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroup > > > > s.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > > one( > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it > > > > > back > > on > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogro > > > > > ups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > levels > > > > of > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > does > > > > not > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > > > > > > which > > you > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > > one > > > > of > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results > > > > > > for nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > determining > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoog > > > > > > roups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > water > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yaho > > > > > > > ogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > someone's > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as > > > > > > > > the > > > > first > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > above > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > message > > > > and > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > tested > > > > for > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm > > > > > > > > is > > > > next > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > 20.0ppm > > > > and > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > you do > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but > > > > > > > > not > > > > that > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > > is > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > > bacteria > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > > bloom. > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > plants, > > > > or > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > > is > > > > no > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > > done. > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > > there. > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > through a > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > additional > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > > suspect > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > know > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > > do > > > > the > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > which > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If > > > > > > > > you > > > > are > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > > still > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look > > > > > > > > for > > > > and > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > nitrogenous > > > > waste > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > removed. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540ya > > > > > > > > hoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540 > > > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > whether > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you > > > > > > > > > > made > > a > > > > typo > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations > > > > > > > > > > at > > all > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > true > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > > > > > > > > > > completed > > if > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > your > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > convert > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > cycled, > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > cloudiness) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > > time). > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > serve > > > > to > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > their > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > feeding > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > numerous > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > nutrients > > > > you > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > plants > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > > > > > > > > > > greenish, > > > > please > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > > > > > > > > > > lighting > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > should > > > > not > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > half > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > > > > > > > > > > retain > > > > any > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > > > > > > > > > > gravel > > of > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > > and > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%25 > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > everything > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 8. I > > > > > > > > > > > did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > > yes i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > > snail > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > > and > > > > I'm > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > > i > > > > have > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. > > > > > > > > > I > > > > added a > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all > > > > > > > > > the > > > > gravel > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 > 4:34:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 6:47:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 6:59:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31113	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Silver Molly about to give birth?

Hi All I have 3 silver mollies, 1 male and 2 female, about a month or so ago, I saw the male chasing the females and since then, they are both getting fatter, but one is really fat. Just this morning, the really fat one is doing a strange quiver sorta thing, she is raising her head so her body is more or less vertical, then doing a quick jiggle...lol Do you reckon she might be about to give birth, I can't see any fry in the tank as yet. I have a birthing/breeding tank to float in the tank, but this only stresses them if placed in too early, I dont this before with a guppy and she aborted the pregnancy. Any suggestions please «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31114	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with frequent and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the tank to an environment drastically different). While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist from doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of aquarium water in doing so whenever possible. You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more work, yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going on as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please consider this when cleaning yours. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my tank, and > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish seem ok with > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think thats > why. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the chlorine/chloramine > > in > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. After all, > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents to > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking something for at > > least five minutes or more before the low level of chlorine/chloramine in > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the usually abrupt > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts the > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to harm/death. > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank water so > > the > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are acclimated to. > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to some tap > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they would likely > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way because of the > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a drastic change > > in > > water parameters. > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands grabbing > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw their > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even more... > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter medium, and > > i > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> , > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his problem > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just change > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the filter > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it (unless > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only one > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two parts, > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media using > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use a pail > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > > > at hand > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > > > here > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > > > cycles > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > > > what is > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > > > bacteria > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > > > swap is > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > > > what i > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > > > may > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > > > way > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > > > note > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > interum, > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > > major > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > > > is > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > control. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > > > one( > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > > > on > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > > levels > > > > > of > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > > > you > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > > > one > > > > > of > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > determining > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > > water > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > > > first > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > > above > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > message > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > > tested > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > > > next > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > > you do > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > > > that > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > > > is > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > plants, > > > > > or > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > > > is > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > > > done. > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > > > there. > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > through a > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > > know > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > > > do > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > > which > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > > > still > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > > > and > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > nitrogenous > > > > > waste > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > removed. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > > whether > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > > > a > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > > > all > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > > true > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > cycled, > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > > > time). > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > > serve > > > > > to > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > > their > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > numerous > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > nutrients > > > > > you > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > > plants > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > should > > > > > not > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > > half > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > > > of > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > > > and > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > everything > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > > > yes i > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > > > and > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > > > i > > > > > have > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > > > added a > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > > Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:34:19 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31115	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

And here's me thinking you HAVE to re-new the filters every month, so following instructions on boxes etc, I have kept on buying new media....huh!!! I have however, always used the water from my weekly PWC's to rinse the media and when I do replace them, I only change one part at a time, so leaving the bacteria in other sponges. From now on, I will be saving myself some money by only rinsing them out, and replacing them should they need it, but like Lenny said, they should last for ages. I always thought it was a waste throwing good sponges away....but I thought it was to avoid too much bacteria going back into the tank and thats why they needed changing on a monthly basis. you learn something new every day «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Most people change out a filter cartridge in this way, by just replacing the old with the new, as its a bit more convenient to just make the swap. You don't need to go to that expense though, if you prefer to keep using carbon as a filter medium, as you can buy it in bulk and just change the old carbon for new by slitting the top of your filter media bag to gain access to it, dumping the old and replacing it with fresh. No need to keep buying fresh cartridges. As Lenny points out though, the majority of aquariums don't need to be running carbon in the filtration system, although I would not remove that cartridge altogether since the more area you have in some type of medium, the greater the opportunity for beneficial bacteria to grow over it. You will only have as much nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter as the bioload will supply nutrients (nitrogenous waste) to it, but this way it will be more spread out and when you do clean a portion of it (or finally change a cartridge that will last a good while), you will still have a good amount of this bacteria to keep the cycle going fairly well -- even if you do have a "mini" - mini-cycle at that time. While I did say not to remove the cartridge altogether, my point is that some hobbyists (knowing that carbon is not really needed at most times) dump the carbon from the cartridge after its spent and replace it with aquarium gravel as the medium on which beneficial bacteria will grow. Carbon does have its uses, as Lenny also states, in those circumstances when you have a heavier than normal bioload, and also for removing medicines that are no longer needed after a treatment. One thing that Lenny seems to have missed is that carbon has a specific "life" (useful period), beyond which it will do little to nothing in purifying your water -- and when fully used, may start to release the impurities it has picked up, back into you water (there is some controversy to this). This useful life time-frame is near impossible to pin down, as its determined by how long it will take to load up on the impurities found in your water -- which is determined first of all by the amount of impurities found in your tap water, the variability of any given bioload (amount of fish, etc.) in any one person's tank including numbers and sizes of fish, any noxious gases given off by varying amounts of decaying plant matter in any one tank and any impurities the hobbyist adds to that tank, etc. In general, it is said that carbon in a filtration system may last effectively on the average of approximately one month in "normal" situations. If you still prefer to use carbon, and many hobbyists do, to err on the safe side (if there is anything to its releasing its impurities), just change it out at least that often. The carbon itself is not meant to catch any physical particles but will pull any impurities (gases, etc.) out of suspension as dissolved matter. Its always the first permeable barrier that is meant to catch the physical particles with the last medium designed specifically for biological filtration. In your case, the outer material of the cartridge is designed to first catch the physical particles. The sponge will populate nitrifying bacteria, which is placed where it can't get clogged up. This is not to say that nitrifying bacteria will not grow elsewhere in the filter, and will populate the filter cartridge bag breaking down any physical organic matter that gets trapped by it. Since you have some extra room in your filter, I'd suggest you might consider adding an extra sponge or a cartridge containing filter floss, which doesn't really need to be held in place, if it doesn't significantly slow the flow down too much. If its sandwiched between the cartridge and the sponge, it can't go too far. This will give you some extra biological filtration capacity. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > In the past when i put in a new cartridge i just buy the pre- assembled > carts, and just take out the old and put in the new. While this has had no > visible effect on my tank, in light of recent discussion, it might be > causing spikes in the levels of amonia. So you are suggesting getting the > kits that do not come assembled and you have to add the carbon to the little > cartridge? By doing this you would suggest removing the old carbon and > replacing it with a fresh pack from this kit? I am just trying to > understand. My filter has only one cartridge, so i cannot really add > another. there is room to toss another one in there, but it wouldn't be held > in place. My filter also has a very porus sponge like material that goes > between the filter and the return spout itself. I do not know the > significance of this, as the filter medium is catching any large chunks of > food or whatever may come through the filter. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > wrote: > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > > problem too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can > > cause mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, > > its always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > > change one part of the filter media, then change the other part of > > the filter media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs > > it (unless cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter > > have only one cartridge, but most have two. > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > > parts, at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter > > media using your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), > > but use a pail of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, "David > > Keymel" <azzuron@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > > at hand > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > > here > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > > cycles > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > > what is > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > > bacteria > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > > swap is > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > > what i > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > > may > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > > way > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > > note > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > interum, > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > major > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > > is > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > control. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > > one( > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > > on > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > levels > > > > of > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > does > > > > not > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > > you > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > > one > > > > of > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > determining > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > water > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > someone's > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > > first > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > above > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > message > > > > and > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > tested > > > > for > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > > next > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > 20.0ppm > > > > and > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > you do > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > > that > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > > is > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > > bacteria > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > > bloom. > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > plants, > > > > or > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > > is > > > > no > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > > done. > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > > there. > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > through a > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > additional > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > > suspect > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > know > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > > do > > > > the > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > which > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > > are > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > > still > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > > and > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > nitrogenous > > > > waste > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > removed. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > whether > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > > a > > > > typo > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > > all > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > true > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > > if > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > your > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > > convert > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > cycled, > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > cloudiness) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > > time). > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > serve > > > > to > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > their > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > feeding > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > numerous > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > nutrients > > > > you > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > plants > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > > please > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > should > > > > not > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > half > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > > any > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > > of > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > > and > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > everything > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > > yes i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > > snail > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > > and > > > > I'm > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > > i > > > > have > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > > added a > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > > gravel > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31116	From: greychildren	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

i have the same issue with my ph. the ph in my tap water is 8.0 but the tanks ph is around 6.8 so i guess im putting some stress on my fish? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than > your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your > fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that > dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with > frequent and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will > closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we > try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the > tank to an environment drastically different). > > While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the > temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently > prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water > conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of > these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media > in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist > from doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of > aquarium water in doing so whenever possible. > > You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient > for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be > discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more > work, yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. > Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your > filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this > as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by > chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water > while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out > their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the > very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going > on as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please > consider this when cleaning yours. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > wrote: > > > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my > tank, and > > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish > seem ok with > > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think > thats > > why. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@>wrote: > > > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > chlorine/chloramine > > > in > > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. > After all, > > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents > to > > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking > something for at > > > least five minutes or more before the low level of > chlorine/chloramine in > > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the > usually abrupt > > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > the > > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to > harm/death. > > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank > water so > > > the > > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > acclimated to. > > > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to > some tap > > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > would likely > > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way > because of the > > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a > drastic change > > > in > > > water parameters. > > > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > grabbing > > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw > their > > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even > more... > > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter > medium, and > > > i > > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> , > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > its > > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > problem > > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > change > > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the > filter > > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it > (unless > > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only > one > > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > parts, > > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media > using > > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use > a pail > > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > topic > > > > at hand > > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i > read > > > > here > > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause > issues, mini > > > > cycles > > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my > question is, > > > > what is > > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up > the > > > > bacteria > > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so > the > > > > swap is > > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter > media? I am > > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that > is > > > > what i > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > way > > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > you > > > > may > > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > one > > > > way > > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would > not yet > > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > should not > > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although > I do > > > > note > > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > > interum, > > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely > be a > > > > major > > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > cloudiness > > > > is > > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. > Keep us > > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > given by > > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > > control. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > have > > > > one( > > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn > it back > > > > on > > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, > in > > > > levels > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I > know, > > > > does > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > which > > > > you > > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > are 3 > > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > each > > > > one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given > results for > > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > > determining > > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and > fresh > > > > water > > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > as the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous > message > > > > above > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > > message > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have > you > > > > tested > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > 0.01ppm is > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > well > > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm > to > > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how > frequent > > > > you do > > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, > but not > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > reading > > > > is > > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients > required of > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > bacterial > > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > > plants, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > There > > > > is > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks > can't be > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris > can get > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > > through a > > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there > are > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > also > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do > not > > > > know > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are > you > > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > just > > > > do > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail > shells > > > > which > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > If you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > (and > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > look for > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > > removed. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer > is > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless > you made > > > > a > > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > concentrations at > > > > all > > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are > your > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > completed > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks > like > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > enough to > > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > > cycled, > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > short > > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will > only > > > > serve > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > contains > > > > their > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which > is > > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > the > > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > > numerous > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the > amount and > > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > > nutrients > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population > of > > > > plants > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > > should > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but > instead do > > > > half > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel > > > > of > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > bloom > > > > and > > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > and > > > > yes i > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > loaches > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > now > > > > and > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according > to the > > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > already. > > > > i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > today. I > > > > > > added a > > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to > all the > > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > > > Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:34:19 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31117	From: greychildren	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?

I have the same issue with my female platties she givens birth with out any strange behavior. what i learn is to have some java fern in the tank. The babies will hide in there those making them have more of a chance to survive to adulthood and not be eaten by the parents or other tank mates. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Saps Gal" <sapsgal@...> wrote: > > Hi All > > I have 3 silver mollies, 1 male and 2 female, about a month or so ago, I saw the male chasing the females and since then, they are both getting fatter, but one is really fat. > Just this morning, the really fat one is doing a strange quiver sorta thing, she is raising her head so her body is more or less vertical, then doing a quick jiggle...lol > > Do you reckon she might be about to give birth, I can't see any fry in the tank as yet. > I have a birthing/breeding tank to float in the tank, but this only stresses them if placed in too early, I dont this before with a guppy and she aborted the pregnancy. > > Any suggestions please > > «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» > «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» > «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31118	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

The only filter medium you should change every month, if you prefer to keep using this one, is carbon. But as you see, carbon is not really necessary as long as you keep up with PWC's, getting rid of impurities in that manner and doing regular substrate maintenance. For the most part, primarily nitrifying bacteria colonize your filter media, so any bacteria going back into your tank would only be beneficial. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Saps Gal" <sapsgal@...> wrote: > > And here's me thinking you HAVE to re-new the filters every month, so following instructions on boxes etc, I have kept on buying new media....huh!!! > > I have however, always used the water from my weekly PWC's to rinse the media and when I do replace them, I only change one part at a time, so leaving the bacteria in other sponges. > > From now on, I will be saving myself some money by only rinsing them out, and replacing them should they need it, but like Lenny said, they should last for ages. I always thought it was a waste throwing good sponges away....but I thought it was to avoid too much bacteria going back into the tank and thats why they needed changing on a monthly basis. > > you learn something new every day > > > «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» > «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» > «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:42 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > Most people change out a filter cartridge in this way, by just > replacing the old with the new, as its a bit more convenient to just > make the swap. You don't need to go to that expense though, if you > prefer to keep using carbon as a filter medium, as you can buy it in > bulk and just change the old carbon for new by slitting the top of > your filter media bag to gain access to it, dumping the old and > replacing it with fresh. No need to keep buying fresh cartridges. > > As Lenny points out though, the majority of aquariums don't need to > be running carbon in the filtration system, although I would not > remove that cartridge altogether since the more area you have in some > type of medium, the greater the opportunity for beneficial bacteria > to grow over it. You will only have as much nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter as the bioload will supply nutrients > (nitrogenous waste) to it, but this way it will be more spread out > and when you do clean a portion of it (or finally change a cartridge > that will last a good while), you will still have a good amount of > this bacteria to keep the cycle going fairly well -- even if you do > have a "mini" - mini-cycle at that time. While I did say not to > remove the cartridge altogether, my point is that some hobbyists > (knowing that carbon is not really needed at most times) dump the > carbon from the cartridge after its spent and replace it with > aquarium gravel as the medium on which beneficial bacteria will grow. > > Carbon does have its uses, as Lenny also states, in those > circumstances when you have a heavier than normal bioload, and also > for removing medicines that are no longer needed after a treatment. > One thing that Lenny seems to have missed is that carbon has a > specific "life" (useful period), beyond which it will do little to > nothing in purifying your water -- and when fully used, may start to > release the impurities it has picked up, back into you water (there > is some controversy to this). This useful life time-frame is near > impossible to pin down, as its determined by how long it will take to > load up on the impurities found in your water -- which is determined > first of all by the amount of impurities found in your tap water, the > variability of any given bioload (amount of fish, etc.) in any one > person's tank including numbers and sizes of fish, any noxious gases > given off by varying amounts of decaying plant matter in any one tank > and any impurities the hobbyist adds to that tank, etc. In general, > it is said that carbon in a filtration system may last effectively on > the average of approximately one month in "normal" situations. > > If you still prefer to use carbon, and many hobbyists do, to err on > the safe side (if there is anything to its releasing its impurities), > just change it out at least that often. The carbon itself is not > meant to catch any physical particles but will pull any impurities > (gases, etc.) out of suspension as dissolved matter. Its always the > first permeable barrier that is meant to catch the physical particles > with the last medium designed specifically for biological > filtration. In your case, the outer material of the cartridge is > designed to first catch the physical particles. The sponge will > populate nitrifying bacteria, which is placed where it can't get > clogged up. This is not to say that nitrifying bacteria will not > grow elsewhere in the filter, and will populate the filter cartridge > bag breaking down any physical organic matter that gets trapped by it. > > Since you have some extra room in your filter, I'd suggest you might > consider adding an extra sponge or a cartridge containing filter > floss, which doesn't really need to be held in place, if it doesn't > significantly slow the flow down too much. If its sandwiched between > the cartridge and the sponge, it can't go too far. This will give > you some extra biological filtration capacity. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > wrote: > > > > In the past when i put in a new cartridge i just buy the pre- > assembled > > carts, and just take out the old and put in the new. While this has > had no > > visible effect on my tank, in light of recent discussion, it might > be > > causing spikes in the levels of amonia. So you are suggesting > getting the > > kits that do not come assembled and you have to add the carbon to > the little > > cartridge? By doing this you would suggest removing the old carbon > and > > replacing it with a fresh pack from this kit? I am just trying to > > understand. My filter has only one cartridge, so i cannot really add > > another. there is room to toss another one in there, but it > wouldn't be held > > in place. My filter also has a very porus sponge like material that > goes > > between the filter and the return spout itself. I do not know the > > significance of this, as the filter medium is catching any large > chunks of > > food or whatever may come through the filter. > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > its > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > > > problem too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can > > > cause mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, > > > its always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > > > change one part of the filter media, then change the other part of > > > the filter media the next time you do filter maintenance if it > needs > > > it (unless cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter > > > have only one cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > > > parts, at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter > > > media using your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying > bacteria), > > > but use a pail of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, "David > > > Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > topic > > > at hand > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > > > here > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, > mini > > > cycles > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question > is, > > > what is > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > > > bacteria > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > > > swap is > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? > I am > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > > > what i > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > way > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > you > > > may > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > one > > > way > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not > yet > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > should not > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I > do > > > note > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > interum, > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > > major > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > cloudiness > > > is > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep > us > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > given by > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > control. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > have > > > one( > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it > back > > > on > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > > levels > > > > > of > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > which > > > you > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > are 3 > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > each > > > one > > > > > of > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results > for > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > determining > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > > water > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > as the > > > > > first > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > > above > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > message > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > > tested > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > 0.01ppm is > > > > > next > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > well > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > > you do > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but > not > > > > > that > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > reading > > > is > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required > of > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > bacterial > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > plants, > > > > > or > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > There > > > is > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't > be > > > > > done. > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can > get > > > > > there. > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > through a > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > also > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > > know > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > just > > > do > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > > which > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > If you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > (and > > > > > still > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > look for > > > > > and > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > nitrogenous > > > > > waste > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > removed. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > > whether > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you > made > > > a > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > concentrations at > > > all > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > > true > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > completed > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > enough to > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > cycled, > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > short > > > > > time). > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > > serve > > > > > to > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > contains > > > their > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > the > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > numerous > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount > and > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > nutrients > > > > > you > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > > plants > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > should > > > > > not > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead > do > > > half > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel > > > of > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > bloom > > > and > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > everything > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > and > > > yes i > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > loaches > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > now > > > and > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to > the > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > already. > > > i > > > > > have > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > today. I > > > > > added a > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all > the > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31119	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

So what you're saying is that you have just the opposite issue with you pH as David does with his tank pH and tap pH identical. You should note that pH reduction is part of the natural process of oxidation of nitrogenous waste by the bacterial process of nitrification. As nitrate keeps being produced from the conversion of nitrite by these nitrobacters, this nitrate becomes nitrite acid. There are other facters involved as well, in the gradual lowering of your aquarium's pH, not the least of would be any driftwood that might leach tannic acids, but you haven't mentioned having such ornaments in your aquascaping design. I see where you have 20 fish in your aquarium, averaging better than 2" each. I haven't seen you mention a tank size, although I may have missed that (please indicate if you haven't already). With this much of a bioload, you should have at least a 40 gallon tank minimum, preferably larger. This bioload will contribute greatly to your nitrogenous waste conversions, leading to faster buildups of nitrAte (and nitric acid), causing your pH to drop sooner than expected. I'd recommend you look into getting that nitrAte testing kit at your earliest convenience, as the budget permits. Your nitrAtes may be higher than I'm presently suspecting, even if not yet dangerous to the fish. I noticed too, that you are changing out 25% - 30% of your tank water every two weeks. With this bioload, unless your tank is at least 75 gallons (or more), you should preferably be changing out this much water every week in efforts to keep the parameters more close to that of your tap water. If you are only using tap water to make your PEC's, and you have originally used your tap water to initially fill your tank when it was first set up, then unless you are employing driftwood in your arrangement, and are heavily planted with live aquatic plants, there is no reason why your tank's pH should not fairly closely match your tap water's pH if you are doing adaquate PWC's. Do not do any large PWC's at this stage of the game, just to make up for any lack of previous water changing or you will shock the fish. You are not stressing your fish at this time with a pH of 6.8, and you are not stressing your fish when you make your bi-monthly PWC's as yoyr tap water's affects are being diluted by this lower pH of the major portion of this tank's water, but if you continue to make only bimonthly PWC's your pH will drop further, possibly at some point crashing -- as your alkalinity/KH (buffering capacity) is only 6ppm. This is not enough to sustain a lowering of pH when your nitric acid is building up. Additional (more frequent), rather than larger, PWC's need being done. Other factors leading to a drop in your pH is; the respiration of your fish giving off CO2, some being used by your plant and some being released through the surface -- and some being converted to carbonic acid. One other factor coming into play in the reduction of your pH is the photosynthesis of your plants, although with that much of a bioload you should have no problem in this area -- but then, I don't know how much planting you've done. If photosynthesising plants cannot get enough CO2 for their immediate needs, they will switch to using bicarbonate ions to fulfill these needs. While Ca and Mg carbonates prevent the pH from dropping, having a buffering capacity to help counteract a drop, if these ions are partially drawn from your water by plants, this will further reduce the buffering capacity of your now KH 6 temporary hardness. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > i have the same issue with my ph. the ph in my tap water is 8.0 but > the tanks ph is around 6.8 so i guess im putting some stress on my fish? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than > > your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your > > fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that > > department. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with > > frequent and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will > > closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we > > try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the > > tank to an environment drastically different). > > > > While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the > > temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently > > prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water > > conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a result of > > these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media > > in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist > > from doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of > > aquarium water in doing so whenever possible. > > > > You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient > > for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be > > discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more > > work, yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. > > Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your > > filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this > > as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by > > chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water > > while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out > > their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the > > very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going > > on as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please > > consider this when cleaning yours. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > wrote: > > > > > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my > > tank, and > > > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish > > seem ok with > > > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think > > thats > > > why. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@>wrote: > > > > > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > > chlorine/chloramine > > > > in > > > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. > > After all, > > > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents > > to > > > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking > > something for at > > > > least five minutes or more before the low level of > > chlorine/chloramine in > > > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the > > usually abrupt > > > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > > the > > > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to > > harm/death. > > > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank > > water so > > > > the > > > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > > acclimated to. > > > > > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to > > some tap > > > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > > would likely > > > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way > > because of the > > > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a > > drastic change > > > > in > > > > water parameters. > > > > > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > > grabbing > > > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw > > their > > > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even > > more... > > > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter > > medium, and > > > > i > > > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.com>> , > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > > its > > > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > > problem > > > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > > change > > > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the > > filter > > > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it > > (unless > > > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only > > one > > > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > > parts, > > > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media > > using > > > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use > > a pail > > > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > > topic > > > > > at hand > > > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i > > read > > > > > here > > > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause > > issues, mini > > > > > cycles > > > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my > > question is, > > > > > what is > > > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up > > the > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so > > the > > > > > swap is > > > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter > > media? I am > > > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that > > is > > > > > what i > > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > > way > > > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > > cloudy > > > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > > you > > > > > may > > > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > > lights > > > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > > one > > > > > way > > > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would > > not yet > > > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > > should not > > > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although > > I do > > > > > note > > > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > > don't > > > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > > > interum, > > > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely > > be a > > > > > major > > > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > > cloudiness > > > > > is > > > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. > > Keep us > > > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > > given by > > > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > > > control. > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > > have > > > > > one( > > > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn > > it back > > > > > on > > > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, > > in > > > > > levels > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I > > know, > > > > > does > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > > which > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > > are 3 > > > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > > each > > > > > one > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given > > results for > > > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > > > determining > > > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and > > fresh > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > > as the > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous > > message > > > > > above > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > > > message > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have > > you > > > > > tested > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > > 0.01ppm is > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > > well > > > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm > > to > > > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how > > frequent > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, > > but not > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > > reading > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients > > required of > > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > > bacterial > > > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > > > plants, > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks > > can't be > > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris > > can get > > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > > > through a > > > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there > > are > > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > > also > > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do > > not > > > > > know > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are > > you > > > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > > just > > > > > do > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail > > shells > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > > If you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > > (and > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > > look for > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > > > removed. > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer > > is > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless > > you made > > > > > a > > > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > > concentrations at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are > > your > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > > completed > > > > > if > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks > > like > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > > enough to > > > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > > > cycled, > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > > short > > > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will > > only > > > > > serve > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > > contains > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which > > is > > > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > > the > > > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > > > numerous > > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the > > amount and > > > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > > > nutrients > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population > > of > > > > > plants > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > > greenish, > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > > lighting > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > > > should > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but > > instead do > > > > > half > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > > retain > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > > gravel > > > > > of > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > > bloom > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > > and > > > > > yes i > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > > loaches > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > > now > > > > > and > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according > > to the > > > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > > already. > > > > > i > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > > today. I > > > > > > > added a > > > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood > > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to > > all the > > > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > > > > Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:34:19 PM > > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31120	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Ray, Lenny and Steve,   Does the advice of always using tank water to clean filter media apply to well water that does not contain chlorine and chloramine.  The ph is depressed with CO2 but rises to the tank ph quickly.  The temperature of the well (tap) water is the same temperature as the tank.  I have been cleaning my filter media under the well (tap) water without any detectable mini cycling problems so far.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 6:21:56 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with frequent and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the tank to an environment drastically different). While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist from doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of aquarium water in doing so whenever possible. You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more work, yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going on as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please consider this when cleaning yours. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@... > wrote: > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my tank, and > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish seem ok with > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think thats > why. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@. ..>wrote: > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the chlorine/chloramine > > in > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. After all, > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents to > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking something for at > > least five minutes or more before the low level of chlorine/chloramine in > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the usually abrupt > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts the > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to harm/death. > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank water so > > the > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are acclimated to. > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to some tap > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they would likely > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way because of the > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a drastic change > > in > > water parameters. > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands grabbing > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw their > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even more... > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter medium, and > > i > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com><mailto: > > AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.. com>> , > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his problem > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just change > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the filter > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it (unless > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only one > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two parts, > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media using > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use a pail > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > > > at hand > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > > > here > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > > > cycles > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > > > what is > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > > > bacteria > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > > > swap is > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > > > what i > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > <sevenspringss@ >wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > > > may > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > > > way > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > > > note > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > interum, > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > > major > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > > > is > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > control. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > > > one( > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > > > on > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > > levels > > > > > of > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > > > you > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > > > one > > > > > of > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > determining > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > > water > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > > > first > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > > above > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > message > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > > tested > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > > > next > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > > you do > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > > > that > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > > > is > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > plants, > > > > > or > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > > > is > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > > > done. > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > > > there. > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > through a > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > > know > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > > > do > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > > which > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > > > still > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > > > and > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > nitrogenous > > > > > waste > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > removed. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > > whether > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > > > a > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > > > all > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > > true > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > cycled, > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > > > time). > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > > serve > > > > > to > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > > their > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > numerous > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > nutrients > > > > > you > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > > plants > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > should > > > > > not > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > > half > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > > > of > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > > > and > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > everything > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > > > yes i > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > > > and > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > > > i > > > > > have > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > > > added a > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > > Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:34:19 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31121	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Jim, I believe I referred to chloramine and/or chlorine in every message I posted on this topic when considering tap water to be avoided for cleaning filter media, which has nothing to do with private well water (having no such additives), and which is why I purposely expressed "chloramine" when referring to that tap water. So, other than your well water's pH possibly being considerably lower, there's no other reason why you wouldn't be able to safely use your tap/well water for this purpose. I do see an issue with a pH difference though (perhaps your isn't that great), especially as you haven't stated what this pH difference might be. Some well water can have a pH difference of at least pH 0.6 or more, which I could see might be detrimental especially if its in the acid range. Acid water is not very conducive to the longevity of bacteria in general. If you haven't detected any noticeable difference in the performance of your nitrifying bacteria, I wouldn't worry about it too much, but its something to consider if you ever see a problem. If preferring to use your tap water, rather than drawing a bucket of aquarium water, you might want to use a bucket of tap water that has been allowed to off-gas its CO2. Getting back to the effects of chloramine on nitrifying bacteria though, I highly suspect an error in the calculation of a safe-time duration of 5 minutes as still being sustainable for life of these nitrifiers. When chloramine was first introduced in this area some 18 years ago (with little if any notification), I witnessed much higher life forms (FISH) get totally decimated (killed) by exposures of only 10 minutes to this disinfectant. I would think that should say something for its effects. Quantities of this water supply additive can vary from 0.5ppm to 2.0ppm as for the amount of chloramine being used by any one supplier, but then too, it should be considered that much colder water in winter has the capacity hold greater amounts of any gases per volume of the water being supplied. The effects of chloramine to water in winter cannot readily be seen as it doesn't off-gas, but when chlorine was previously used during the coldest seasons, the much larger capacity for water to hold increased amounts of gas were quite obvious as when first drawn, this tap water had noticeable clouds of chlorine gas bubbles rising through it accompanied by its distinctive smell -- regardless of how much or how little of the gas the supplier put in it at its treatment plant. The water just had the tendancy to absorb more per cubic foot because of its lower temperature. I'd suspect the amount of chlorine in the water supply obtained at the receiving end was much greater than the amount the water supplier intended when introducing the disinfectant at the treament plant end. Then too, the amount of these gases will also vary in proportion to how far the outlet (tap) is from the pumping plant, which is still something to consider today with chloramine (I was within 2 miles of the treatment plant). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > Ray, Lenny and Steve, >   > Does the advice of always using tank water to clean filter media apply to well water that does not contain chlorine and chloramine.  The ph is depressed with CO2 but rises to the tank ph quickly.  The temperature of the well (tap) water is the same temperature as the tank.  I have been cleaning my filter media under the well (tap) water without any detectable mini cycling problems so far. > >  Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 6:21:56 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than > your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your > fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that > dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with > frequent and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will > closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we > try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the > tank to an environment drastically different). > > While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the > temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently > prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water > conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of > these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media > in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist > from doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of > aquarium water in doing so whenever possible. > > You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient > for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be > discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more > work, yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. > Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your > filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this > as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by > chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water > while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out > their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the > very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going > on as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please > consider this when cleaning yours. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@ > > wrote: > > > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my > tank, and > > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish > seem ok with > > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think > thats > > why. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@ ..>wrote: > > > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > chlorine/chloramine > > > in > > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. > After all, > > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents > to > > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking > something for at > > > least five minutes or more before the low level of > chlorine/chloramine in > > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the > usually abrupt > > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > the > > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to > harm/death. > > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank > water so > > > the > > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > acclimated to. > > > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to > some tap > > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > would likely > > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way > because of the > > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a > drastic change > > > in > > > water parameters. > > > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > grabbing > > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw > their > > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even > more... > > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto: > > > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter > medium, and > > > i > > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com><mailto: > > > AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.. com>> , > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > its > > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > problem > > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > change > > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the > filter > > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it > (unless > > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only > one > > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > parts, > > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media > using > > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use > a pail > > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > topic > > > > at hand > > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i > read > > > > here > > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause > issues, mini > > > > cycles > > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my > question is, > > > > what is > > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up > the > > > > bacteria > > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so > the > > > > swap is > > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter > media? I am > > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that > is > > > > what i > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > > <sevenspringss@ >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > way > > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > you > > > > may > > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > one > > > > way > > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would > not yet > > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > should not > > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although > I do > > > > note > > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > > interum, > > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely > be a > > > > major > > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > cloudiness > > > > is > > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. > Keep us > > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > given by > > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > > control. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > have > > > > one( > > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn > it back > > > > on > > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, > in > > > > levels > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I > know, > > > > does > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > which > > > > you > > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > are 3 > > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > each > > > > one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given > results for > > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > > determining > > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and > fresh > > > > water > > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > as the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous > message > > > > above > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > > message > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have > you > > > > tested > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > 0.01ppm is > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > well > > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm > to > > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how > frequent > > > > you do > > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, > but not > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > reading > > > > is > > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients > required of > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > bacterial > > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > > plants, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > There > > > > is > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks > can't be > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris > can get > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > > through a > > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there > are > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > also > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do > not > > > > know > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are > you > > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > just > > > > do > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail > shells > > > > which > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > If you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > (and > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > look for > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > > removed. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer > is > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless > you made > > > > a > > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > concentrations at > > > > all > > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are > your > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > completed > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks > like > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > enough to > > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > > cycled, > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > short > > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will > only > > > > serve > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > contains > > > > their > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which > is > > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > the > > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > > numerous > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the > amount and > > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > > nutrients > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population > of > > > > plants > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > > should > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but > instead do > > > > half > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel > > > > of > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > bloom > > > > and > > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > and > > > > yes i > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > loaches > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > now > > > > and > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according > to the > > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > already. > > > > i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > today. I > > > > > > added a > > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to > all the > > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > > > Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:34:19 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31122	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

I do not disagree with you one bit! Ive always heard that it was best to use tank water, and my mom always told me just to rinse in the sink really fast. So it really just depended on if i remembered to rinse in the last bucket before i dumped it or not. But ill shy away from sink water from here on out, just for the sake of keeping the bacteria happy and slowing/stopping minicycles. The thing thats really kind of crappy about these cycles is generally you cannot see them. There is little indication that you may have a small amonia spike. I guess you could get an indicator for that to stick in the tank thats kind of like a thermometer. my mom had one of those for her pond gold fish. she has to bring them in for the winter because the pond freezes solid in the winter, that wouldn't be good for the fishes. :P On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:21 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...>wrote: > Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than > your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your > fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that > dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with > frequent and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will > closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we > try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the > tank to an environment drastically different). > > While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the > temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently > prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water > conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of > these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media > in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist > from doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of > aquarium water in doing so whenever possible. > > You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient > for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be > discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more > work, yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. > Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your > filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this > as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by > chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water > while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out > their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the > very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going > on as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please > consider this when cleaning yours. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "David > Keymel" <azzuron@...> > wrote: > > > > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my > tank, and > > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish > seem ok with > > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think > thats > > why. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > > > > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > chlorine/chloramine > > > in > > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. > After all, > > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents > to > > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking > something for at > > > least five minutes or more before the low level of > chlorine/chloramine in > > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the > usually abrupt > > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > the > > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to > harm/death. > > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank > water so > > > the > > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > acclimated to. > > > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to > some tap > > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > would likely > > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way > because of the > > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a > drastic change > > > in > > > water parameters. > > > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > grabbing > > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw > their > > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even > more... > > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter > medium, and > > > i > > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> , > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > its > > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > problem > > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > change > > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the > filter > > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it > (unless > > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only > one > > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > parts, > > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media > using > > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use > a pail > > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > topic > > > > at hand > > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i > read > > > > here > > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause > issues, mini > > > > cycles > > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my > question is, > > > > what is > > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up > the > > > > bacteria > > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so > the > > > > swap is > > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter > media? I am > > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that > is > > > > what i > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > way > > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > you > > > > may > > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > one > > > > way > > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would > not yet > > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > should not > > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although > I do > > > > note > > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > > interum, > > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely > be a > > > > major > > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > cloudiness > > > > is > > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. > Keep us > > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > given by > > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > > control. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > have > > > > one( > > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn > it back > > > > on > > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, > in > > > > levels > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I > know, > > > > does > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > which > > > > you > > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > are 3 > > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > each > > > > one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given > results for > > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > > determining > > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and > fresh > > > > water > > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > as the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous > message > > > > above > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > > message > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have > you > > > > tested > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > 0.01ppm is > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > well > > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm > to > > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how > frequent > > > > you do > > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, > but not > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > reading > > > > is > > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients > required of > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > bacterial > > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > > plants, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > There > > > > is > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks > can't be > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris > can get > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > > through a > > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there > are > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > also > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do > not > > > > know > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are > you > > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > just > > > > do > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail > shells > > > > which > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > If you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > (and > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > look for > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > > removed. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer > is > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless > you made > > > > a > > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > concentrations at > > > > all > > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are > your > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > completed > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks > like > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > enough to > > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > > cycled, > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > short > > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will > only > > > > serve > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > contains > > > > their > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which > is > > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > the > > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > > numerous > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the > amount and > > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > > nutrients > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population > of > > > > plants > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > > should > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but > instead do > > > > half > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel > > > > of > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > bloom > > > > and > > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% <AquaticLife%25> > 40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > and > > > > yes i > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > loaches > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > now > > > > and > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according > to the > > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > already. > > > > i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > today. I > > > > > > added a > > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to > all the > > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > > > Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:34:19 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31123	From: Alina	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Live plants

I am just starting to really look into live plants for my aquarium. It's been running about two months. After you get into this, the fake stuff is just so...fake. And I noticed on silk/fake plant has some brown spots (only on the plant, nowhere else) and it's just making me think fake isn't so great. In any case, I have a snail and probably will get a second (love them!) and would like to provide a good mix of live plants that will be beneficial to a typical freshwater community tank. This is my first tank ever, so I am keeping it simple as I learn. The fish are pretty basic -- tetras, mollies, some guppies and platys. We bought two aquatic wysteria, I believe. And they seem OK. Want to avoid making mistakes matching plants that will live well with my fish. I have been repeatedly discouraged to buy live plants by one of the local pet shop guys who says they are really a maintenance hassle. I think if they provide natural filtration and a little treat for the residents, then why not? Can anyone here point me to the pitfalls...if any...and advice of types of aquatic plants to get. Any links, too. Remember, I'm a beginner. This is a 38 gal, and my water is generally hard, if that makes a differece to the plants. I'm doing my research, but would love your input. Thanks all Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31124	From: alison elizabeth meredith	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > I have the same issue with my female platties she givens birth with > out any strange behavior. what i learn is to have some java fern in > the tank. The babies will hide in there those making them have more of > a chance to survive to adulthood and not be eaten by the parents or > other tank mates. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Saps Gal" <sapsgal@> wrote: > > > > Hi All > > > > I have 3 silver mollies, 1 male and 2 female, about a month or so > ago, I saw the male chasing the females and since then, they are both > getting fatter, but one is really fat. > > Just this morning, the really fat one is doing a strange quiver > sorta thing, she is raising her head so her body is more or less > vertical, then doing a quick jiggle...lol > > > > Do you reckon she might be about to give birth, I can't see any fry > in the tank as yet. > > I have a birthing/breeding tank to float in the tank, but this only > stresses them if placed in too early, I dont this before with a guppy > and she aborted the pregnancy. > > > > Any suggestions please > > > > «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» > > «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» > > «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >yes she will give birth any day i would recomend you put her in the birthing tank other wise all the other fish will eat them >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31125	From: greychildren	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

I noticed also my tap water is heavy on chlorine..its bad you can smell it as soon as you open the facet. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > I do not disagree with you one bit! Ive always heard that it was best to use > tank water, and my mom always told me just to rinse in the sink really fast. > So it really just depended on if i remembered to rinse in the last bucket > before i dumped it or not. But ill shy away from sink water from here on > out, just for the sake of keeping the bacteria happy and slowing/stopping > minicycles. The thing thats really kind of crappy about these cycles is > generally you cannot see them. There is little indication that you may have > a small amonia spike. I guess you could get an indicator for that to stick > in the tank thats kind of like a thermometer. my mom had one of those for > her pond gold fish. she has to bring them in for the winter because the pond > freezes solid in the winter, that wouldn't be good for the fishes. :P > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:21 AM, Raymond Wetzel > <sevenspringss@...>wrote: > > > Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than > > your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your > > fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that > > dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with > > frequent and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will > > closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we > > try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the > > tank to an environment drastically different). > > > > While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the > > temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently > > prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water > > conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of > > these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media > > in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist > > from doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of > > aquarium water in doing so whenever possible. > > > > You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient > > for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be > > discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more > > work, yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. > > Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your > > filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this > > as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by > > chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water > > while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out > > their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the > > very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going > > on as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please > > consider this when cleaning yours. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "David > > Keymel" <azzuron@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my > > tank, and > > > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish > > seem ok with > > > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think > > thats > > > why. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > > chlorine/chloramine > > > > in > > > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. > > After all, > > > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents > > to > > > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking > > something for at > > > > least five minutes or more before the low level of > > chlorine/chloramine in > > > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the > > usually abrupt > > > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > > the > > > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to > > harm/death. > > > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank > > water so > > > > the > > > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > > acclimated to. > > > > > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to > > some tap > > > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > > would likely > > > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way > > because of the > > > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a > > drastic change > > > > in > > > > water parameters. > > > > > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > > grabbing > > > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw > > their > > > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even > > more... > > > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter > > medium, and > > > > i > > > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> , > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > > its > > > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > > problem > > > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > > change > > > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the > > filter > > > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it > > (unless > > > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only > > one > > > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > > parts, > > > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media > > using > > > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use > > a pail > > > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > > topic > > > > > at hand > > > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i > > read > > > > > here > > > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause > > issues, mini > > > > > cycles > > > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my > > question is, > > > > > what is > > > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up > > the > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so > > the > > > > > swap is > > > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter > > media? I am > > > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that > > is > > > > > what i > > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > > way > > > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > > cloudy > > > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > > you > > > > > may > > > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > > lights > > > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > > one > > > > > way > > > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would > > not yet > > > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > > should not > > > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although > > I do > > > > > note > > > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > > don't > > > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > > > interum, > > > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely > > be a > > > > > major > > > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > > cloudiness > > > > > is > > > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. > > Keep us > > > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > > given by > > > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > > > control. > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > > have > > > > > one( > > > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn > > it back > > > > > on > > > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, > > in > > > > > levels > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I > > know, > > > > > does > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > > which > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > > are 3 > > > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > > each > > > > > one > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given > > results for > > > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > > > determining > > > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and > > fresh > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > > as the > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous > > message > > > > > above > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > > > message > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have > > you > > > > > tested > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > > 0.01ppm is > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > > well > > > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm > > to > > > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how > > frequent > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, > > but not > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > > reading > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients > > required of > > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > > bacterial > > > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > > > plants, > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks > > can't be > > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris > > can get > > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > > > through a > > > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there > > are > > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > > also > > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do > > not > > > > > know > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are > > you > > > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > > just > > > > > do > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail > > shells > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > > If you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > > (and > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > > look for > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > > > removed. > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer > > is > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless > > you made > > > > > a > > > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > > concentrations at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are > > your > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > > completed > > > > > if > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks > > like > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > > enough to > > > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > > > cycled, > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > > short > > > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will > > only > > > > > serve > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > > contains > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which > > is > > > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > > the > > > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > > > numerous > > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the > > amount and > > > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > > > nutrients > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population > > of > > > > > plants > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > > greenish, > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > > lighting > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > > > should > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but > > instead do > > > > > half > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > > retain > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > > gravel > > > > > of > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > > bloom > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% <AquaticLife%25> > > 40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > > and > > > > > yes i > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > > loaches > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > > now > > > > > and > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according > > to the > > > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > > already. > > > > > i > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > > today. I > > > > > > > added a > > > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood > > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to > > all the > > > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > > > > Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:34:19 PM > > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31126	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Thanks Ray, The ph difference was my main concern.  Out of the tap it is about 0.6 difference in ph from my tank.  I have two canisters and two biowheels on the tank and I alternate cleaning the media in the tap water.  That may be why I haven't detected the mini cycle after doing so.  I will start drawing the water needed to clean the media ahead of time so the CO2 can outgas and therefore there will not be as great a difference in ph.  Thanks for pointing this out.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 10:23:19 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Jim, I believe I referred to chloramine and/or chlorine in every message I posted on this topic when considering tap water to be avoided for cleaning filter media, which has nothing to do with private well water (having no such additives), and which is why I purposely expressed "chloramine" when referring to that tap water. So, other than your well water's pH possibly being considerably lower, there's no other reason why you wouldn't be able to safely use your tap/well water for this purpose. I do see an issue with a pH difference though (perhaps your isn't that great), especially as you haven't stated what this pH difference might be. Some well water can have a pH difference of at least pH 0.6 or more, which I could see might be detrimental especially if its in the acid range. Acid water is not very conducive to the longevity of bacteria in general. If you haven't detected any noticeable difference in the performance of your nitrifying bacteria, I wouldn't worry about it too much, but its something to consider if you ever see a problem. If preferring to use your tap water, rather than drawing a bucket of aquarium water, you might want to use a bucket of tap water that has been allowed to off-gas its CO2. Getting back to the effects of chloramine on nitrifying bacteria though, I highly suspect an error in the calculation of a safe-time duration of 5 minutes as still being sustainable for life of these nitrifiers. When chloramine was first introduced in this area some 18 years ago (with little if any notification) , I witnessed much higher life forms (FISH) get totally decimated (killed) by exposures of only 10 minutes to this disinfectant. I would think that should say something for its effects. Quantities of this water supply additive can vary from 0.5ppm to 2.0ppm as for the amount of chloramine being used by any one supplier, but then too, it should be considered that much colder water in winter has the capacity hold greater amounts of any gases per volume of the water being supplied. The effects of chloramine to water in winter cannot readily be seen as it doesn't off-gas, but when chlorine was previously used during the coldest seasons, the much larger capacity for water to hold increased amounts of gas were quite obvious as when first drawn, this tap water had noticeable clouds of chlorine gas bubbles rising through it accompanied by its distinctive smell -- regardless of how much or how little of the gas the supplier put in it at its treatment plant. The water just had the tendancy to absorb more per cubic foot because of its lower temperature. I'd suspect the amount of chlorine in the water supply obtained at the receiving end was much greater than the amount the water supplier intended when introducing the disinfectant at the treament plant end. Then too, the amount of these gases will also vary in proportion to how far the outlet (tap) is from the pumping plant, which is still something to consider today with chloramine (I was within 2 miles of the treatment plant). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@. ..> wrote: > > Ray, Lenny and Steve, >   > Does the advice of always using tank water to clean filter media apply to well water that does not contain chlorine and chloramine.  The ph is depressed with CO2 but rises to the tank ph quickly..  The temperature of the well (tap) water is the same temperature as the tank.  I have been cleaning my filter media under the well (tap) water without any detectable mini cycling problems so far. > >  Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 6:21:56 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than > your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your > fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that > dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with > frequent and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will > closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we > try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the > tank to an environment drastically different). > > While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the > temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently > prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water > conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of > these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media > in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist > from doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of > aquarium water in doing so whenever possible. > > You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient > for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be > discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more > work, yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. > Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your > filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this > as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by > chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water > while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out > their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the > very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going > on as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please > consider this when cleaning yours. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@ > > wrote: > > > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my > tank, and > > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish > seem ok with > > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think > thats > > why. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@ ..>wrote: > > > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > chlorine/chloramine > > > in > > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. > After all, > > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents > to > > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking > something for at > > > least five minutes or more before the low level of > chlorine/chloramine in > > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the > usually abrupt > > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > the > > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to > harm/death. > > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank > water so > > > the > > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > acclimated to. > > > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to > some tap > > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > would likely > > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way > because of the > > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a > drastic change > > > in > > > water parameters. > > > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > grabbing > > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw > their > > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even > more... > > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto: > > > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter > medium, and > > > i > > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com><mailto: > > > AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. . com>> , > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > its > > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > problem > > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > change > > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the > filter > > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it > (unless > > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only > one > > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > parts, > > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media > using > > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use > a pail > > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > topic > > > > at hand > > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i > read > > > > here > > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause > issues, mini > > > > cycles > > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my > question is, > > > > what is > > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up > the > > > > bacteria > > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so > the > > > > swap is > > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter > media? I am > > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that > is > > > > what i > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > > <sevenspringss@ >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > way > > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > you > > > > may > > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > one > > > > way > > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would > not yet > > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > should not > > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although > I do > > > > note > > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > > interum, > > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely > be a > > > > major > > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > cloudiness > > > > is > > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. > Keep us > > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > given by > > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > > control. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > have > > > > one( > > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn > it back > > > > on > > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, > in > > > > levels > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I > know, > > > > does > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > which > > > > you > > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > are 3 > > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > each > > > > one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given > results for > > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > > determining > > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and > fresh > > > > water > > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > as the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous > message > > > > above > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > > message > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have > you > > > > tested > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > 0.01ppm is > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > well > > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm > to > > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how > frequent > > > > you do > > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, > but not > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > reading > > > > is > > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients > required of > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > bacterial > > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > > plants, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > There > > > > is > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks > can't be > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris > can get > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > > through a > > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there > are > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > also > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do > not > > > > know > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are > you > > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > just > > > > do > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail > shells > > > > which > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > If you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > (and > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > look for > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > > removed. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer > is > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?).. Then, unless > you made > > > > a > > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > concentrations at > > > > all > > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are > your > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > completed > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks > like > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > enough to > > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > > cycled, > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > short > > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will > only > > > > serve > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > contains > > > > their > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which > is > > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > the > > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > > numerous > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the > amount and > > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > > nutrients > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population > of > > > > plants > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > > should > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but > instead do > > > > half > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel > > > > of > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > bloom > > > > and > > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Clear ease > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. pH is at 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nitrate 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.. Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > and > > > > yes i > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > loaches > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > now > > > > and > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according > to the > > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > already. > > > > i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > today. I > > > > > > added a > > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to > all the > > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > > > Tested on: 10/8/2008 4:34:19 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31127	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Greychildren, What you need to do is a tap/source water baseline test. See my blog article "Establishing your tap water baseline". More than likely, your tap water pH is not really as high as you are testing it right out the tap but let us know your numbers over the next 48 hours so we can see what your tap water parameters really are like. Then we can work on your tank, if necessary. In the meantime, you want to do more frequent but smaller % PWC's. We strive to not change the pH too much, too fast, and since right now, you are indicating that there is a 1.2 difference in pH levels, you probably want to stick with 10-15% PWC's each time and just do two of those a week instead of one 25% PWC each week. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help i have the same issue with my ph. the ph in my tap water is 8.0 but the tanks ph is around 6.8 so i guess im putting some stress on my fish? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than > your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your > fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that > dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with frequent > and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will closely > follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we try to > encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the tank to an > environment drastically different). > > While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the > temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently > prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water > conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of > these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media > in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist from > doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of aquarium > water in doing so whenever possible. > > You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient > for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be > discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more work, > yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. > Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your > filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this > as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by > chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water > while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out > their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the > very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going on > as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please consider > this when cleaning yours. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > wrote: > > > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my > tank, and > > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish > seem ok with > > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think > thats > > why. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@>wrote: > > > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > chlorine/chloramine > > > in > > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. > After all, > > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents > to > > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking > something for at > > > least five minutes or more before the low level of > chlorine/chloramine in > > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the > usually abrupt > > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > the > > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to > harm/death. > > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank > water so > > > the > > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > acclimated to. > > > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to > some tap > > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > would likely > > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way > because of the > > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a > drastic change > > > in > > > water parameters. > > > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > grabbing > > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw > their > > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even > more... > > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter > medium, and > > > i > > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> , > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > its > > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > problem > > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > change > > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the > filter > > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it > (unless > > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only > one > > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > parts, > > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media > using > > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use > a pail > > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > topic > > > > at hand > > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i > read > > > > here > > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause > issues, mini > > > > cycles > > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my > question is, > > > > what is > > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up > the > > > > bacteria > > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so > the > > > > swap is > > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter > media? I am > > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that > is > > > > what i > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > way > > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > you > > > > may > > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > one > > > > way > > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would > not yet > > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > should not > > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although > I do > > > > note > > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > > interum, > > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely > be a > > > > major > > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > cloudiness > > > > is > > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. > Keep us > > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > given by > > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > > control. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > have > > > > one( > > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn > it back > > > > on > > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, > in > > > > levels > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I > know, > > > > does > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > which > > > > you > > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > are 3 > > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > each > > > > one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given > results for > > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > > determining > > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and > fresh > > > > water > > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > as the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous > message > > > > above > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > > message > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have > you > > > > tested > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > 0.01ppm is > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > well > > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm > to > > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how > frequent > > > > you do > > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, > but not > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > reading > > > > is > > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients > required of > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > bacterial > > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > > plants, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > There > > > > is > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks > can't be > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris > can get > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > > through a > > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there > are > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > also > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do > not > > > > know > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are > you > > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > just > > > > do > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail > shells > > > > which > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > If you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > (and > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > look for > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > > removed. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer > is > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless > you made > > > > a > > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > concentrations at > > > > all > > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are > your > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > completed > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks > like > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > enough to > > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > > cycled, > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > short > > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will > only > > > > serve > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > contains > > > > their > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which > is > > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > the > > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > > numerous > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the > amount and > > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > > nutrients > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population > of > > > > plants > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > > should > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but > instead do > > > > half > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel > > > > of > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > bloom > > > > and > > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > and > > > > yes i > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > loaches > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > now > > > > and > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according > to the > > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > already. > > > > i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > today. I > > > > > > added a > > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to > all the > > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 > > > 4:34:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 11:47:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 11:57:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31128	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

We know from fishless cycling that the nitrifying bacteria do best under certain water parameters, high O2 levels, tropical+ water temperatures, sufficient KH levels, etc. We also know that if KH levels get too low, the fishless cycling will come to a halt. We know that adding too much salt, too fast, to a tank will harm the nitrifying bacteria. Knowing these things and other information, we can make the presumption that nitrifying bacteria do not like their water parameters changed too much, too fast, either.. just like our fish. We wouldn't normally move fish from one set of water parameters directly to another set of water parameters without acclimating them first so I think the same precautions should be taken with the nitrifying bacteria. Since your well water is similar in temp to your tank, that isn't going to be your issue but the depressed pH due to the higher CO2 levels of your well water (out the tap) could be an issue. We know that pH changes due to CO2 levels in planted tanks are not a stressor to the fish (one of God's little miracles since any other abrupt pH change would be a stressor) All that said, the best thing would be to use some removed tank water. You don't need much. For my smaller filters, I simply use a 32 oz. plastic go-cup and dip a couple of cups of water out into my fish bucket and do the filter maintenance while my Python is refilling the tank. I also refill my tanks with my Python slowly to make it even better for diluting the new incoming water with the tank water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Ray, Lenny and Steve, Does the advice of always using tank water to clean filter media apply to well water that does not contain chlorine and chloramine. The ph is depressed with CO2 but rises to the tank ph quickly. The temperature of the well (tap) water is the same temperature as the tank. I have been cleaning my filter media under the well (tap) water without any detectable mini cycling problems so far. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 6:21:56 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with frequent and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the tank to an environment drastically different). While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist from doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of aquarium water in doing so whenever possible. You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more work, yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going on as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please consider this when cleaning yours. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@... > wrote: > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my tank, and > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish seem ok with > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think thats > why. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. > ..>wrote: > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the chlorine/chloramine > > in > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. After all, > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents to > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking something for at > > least five minutes or more before the low level of chlorine/chloramine in > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the usually abrupt > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts the > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to harm/death. > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank water so > > the > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are acclimated to. > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to some tap > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they would likely > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way because of the > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a drastic change > > in > > water parameters. > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands grabbing > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw their > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even more... > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. > > com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter medium, and > > i > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com><mailto: > > AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.. > > com>> , "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as its > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his problem > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just change > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the filter > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it (unless > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only one > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two parts, > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media using > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use a pail > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the topic > > > at hand > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i read > > > here > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause issues, mini > > > cycles > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my question is, > > > what is > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up the > > > bacteria > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so the > > > swap is > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter media? I am > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that is > > > what i > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your way > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this cloudy > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate you > > > may > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your lights > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness one > > > way > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would not yet > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and should not > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your problem. > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although I do > > > note > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I don't > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > interum, > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely be a > > > major > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the cloudiness > > > is > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. Keep us > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been given by > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > control. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont have > > > one( > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn it back > > > on > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, in > > > levels > > > > > of > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I know, > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm which > > > you > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There are 3 > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using each > > > one > > > > > of > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given results for > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > determining > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and fresh > > > water > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, as the > > > > > first > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous message > > > above > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > message > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have you > > > tested > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but 0.01ppm is > > > > > next > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently well > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm to > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how frequent > > > you do > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, but not > > > > > that > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test reading > > > is > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients required of > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this bacterial > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > plants, > > > > > or > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. There > > > is > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks can't be > > > > > done. > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris can get > > > > > there. > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > through a > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there are > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm also > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do not > > > know > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are you > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or just > > > do > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail shells > > > which > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? If you > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test (and > > > > > still > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to look for > > > > > and > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > nitrogenous > > > > > waste > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > removed. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer is > > > > > whether > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless you made > > > a > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate concentrations at > > > all > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are your > > > true > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not completed > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks like > > > your > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established enough to > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > cycled, > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually short > > > > > time). > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will only > > > serve > > > > > to > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water contains > > > their > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which is > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why the > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > numerous > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the amount and > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > nutrients > > > > > you > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population of > > > plants > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is greenish, > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the lighting > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > should > > > > > not > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but instead do > > > half > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help retain > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the gravel > > > of > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial bloom > > > and > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > everything > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at > > > > > > > > > > > > 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. kH 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. and > > > yes i > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown loaches > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months now > > > and > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according to the > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months already. > > > i > > > > > have > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it today. I > > > > > added a > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to all the > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 12:17:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31129	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

You should also find out from your public utility whether you have chlorine or chloramine and if chlorine, find out if they have plans to change to chloramine any time soon. There's a chance you have chlorine treated water since you can smell it so easily.. or maybe you have one of those super-sensitive noses. Chloramine is more stable and doesn't break down as easily as chlorine so it's less likely to be smelled as a offgas from the water. It's also important to know whether you have chlorine or chloramine as many dechlor products have different dosing levels depending on which treatment is in your water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help I noticed also my tap water is heavy on chlorine..its bad you can smell it as soon as you open the facet. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > I do not disagree with you one bit! Ive always heard that it was best to use > tank water, and my mom always told me just to rinse in the sink really fast. > So it really just depended on if i remembered to rinse in the last bucket > before i dumped it or not. But ill shy away from sink water from here > on out, just for the sake of keeping the bacteria happy and slowing/stopping > minicycles. The thing thats really kind of crappy about these cycles > is generally you cannot see them. There is little indication that you may have > a small amonia spike. I guess you could get an indicator for that to stick > in the tank thats kind of like a thermometer. my mom had one of those for > her pond gold fish. she has to bring them in for the winter because the pond > freezes solid in the winter, that wouldn't be good for the fishes. :P > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:21 AM, Raymond Wetzel > <sevenspringss@...>wrote: > > > Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than > > your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for > > your fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about > > in that dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with > > frequent and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will > > closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which > > we try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing > > the tank to an environment drastically different). > > > > While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get > > the temperature close this should not be regarded as being > > sufficiently prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned > > under tap water conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized > > as a reult of these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning > > of filter media in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade > > the hobbyist from doing so on this Forum always promoting instead > > the use of aquarium water in doing so whenever possible. > > > > You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient > > for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be > > discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more > > work, yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. > > Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your > > filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing > > this as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed > > off by chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap > > water while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively > > wiping out their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this > > seems to be the very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and > > mini-cycle going on as a results of using tap water in cleaning his > > media. Please consider this when cleaning yours. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "David > > Keymel" <azzuron@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my > > tank, and > > > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish > > seem ok with > > > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i > > > think > > thats > > > why. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > > chlorine/chloramine > > > > in > > > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. > > After all, > > > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill > > > > bacteria instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent > > > > cleaning agents > > to > > > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking > > something for at > > > > least five minutes or more before the low level of > > chlorine/chloramine in > > > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the > > usually abrupt > > > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > > the > > > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to > > harm/death. > > > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank > > water so > > > > the > > > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > > acclimated to. > > > > > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor > > > > to > > some tap > > > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > > would likely > > > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way > > because of the > > > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a > > drastic change > > > > in > > > > water parameters. > > > > > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > > grabbing > > > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw > > their > > > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around > > > > even > > more... > > > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > > > > above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter > > medium, and > > > > i > > > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > , "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, > > > > > as > > its > > > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > > problem > > > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, > > > > > its always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to > > > > > just > > change > > > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of > > > > > the > > filter > > > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it > > (unless > > > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have > > > > > only > > one > > > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in > > > > > two > > parts, > > > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter > > > > > media > > using > > > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but > > > > > use > > a pail > > > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> ><AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > > topic > > > > > at hand > > > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i > > read > > > > > here > > > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause > > issues, mini > > > > > cycles > > > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my > > question is, > > > > > what is > > > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up > > the > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so > > the > > > > > swap is > > > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter > > media? I am > > > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as > > > > > > that > > is > > > > > what i > > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > <sevenspringss@>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see > > > > > > > your > > way > > > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have > > > > > > > this > > cloudy > > > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now > > > > > > > indicate > > you > > > > > may > > > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > > lights > > > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this > > > > > > > cloudiness > > one > > > > > way > > > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused > > > > > > > by phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation > > > > > > > would > > not yet > > > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > > should not > > > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although > > I do > > > > > note > > > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. > > > > > > > I > > don't > > > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in > > > > > > > the > > > > > interum, > > > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely > > be a > > > > > major > > > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > > cloudiness > > > > > is > > > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. > > Keep us > > > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > > given by > > > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things > > > > > > > under > > > > > control. > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > > have > > > > > one( > > > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn > > it back > > > > > on > > > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, > > in > > > > > levels > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I > > know, > > > > > does > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of > > > > > > > > > 0.01ppm > > which > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > > are 3 > > > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you > > > > > > > > > using > > each > > > > > one > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given > > results for > > > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info > > > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > determining > > > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and > > fresh > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on > > > > > > > > > > > top, > > as the > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous > > message > > > > > above > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my > > > > > > > > > > > own > > > > > message > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have > > you > > > > > tested > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > > 0.01ppm is > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > > well > > > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm > > to > > > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how > > frequent > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, > > but not > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > > reading > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that > > > > > > > > > > > minute > > > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients > > required of > > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > > bacterial > > > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to > > > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > plants, > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks > > can't be > > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris > > can get > > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are > > > > > > > > > > > going > > > > > through a > > > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there > > are > > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > > also > > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do > > not > > > > > know > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are > > you > > > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, > > > > > > > > > > > or > > just > > > > > do > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail > > shells > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > > If you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia > > > > > > > > > > > test > > (and > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > > look for > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > removed. > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife% > > 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer > > is > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?). Then, unless > > you made > > > > > a > > > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > > concentrations at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are > > your > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > > completed > > > > > if > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks > > like > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > > enough to > > > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if > > > > > > > > > > > > > fully > > > > > cycled, > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > > short > > > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will > > only > > > > > serve > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > > contains > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > is > > > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially > > > > > > > > > > > > > why > > the > > > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > numerous > > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the > > amount and > > > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > > > nutrients > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including > > > > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate > > > > > > > > > > > > > population > > of > > > > > plants > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > > greenish, > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > > lighting > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > should > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but > > instead do > > > > > half > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to > > > > > > > > > > > > > help > > retain > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > > gravel > > > > > of > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > > bloom > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% <mailto:AquaticLife% <AquaticLife%25> > > > 40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tried > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > > and > > > > > yes i > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > > loaches > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several > > > > > > > > > > > > > > months > > now > > > > > and > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according > > to the > > > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > > already. > > > > > i > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > > today. I > > > > > > > added a > > > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood > > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to > > all the > > > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 > > > > 4:34:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 11:47:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 12:25:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31130	From: mattsmom	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: help winter coming on

In The Morning, Cloudeight Stationery, Pastel Notes Stationery Collection I need advice please , I have posted before same ask but never saw a email,, I live in Oregon E Gresham On the gorge line,, I need to know when to winter my babies, the temps are dipping now into the low 40,s and 30,s. with day temps in the 50,s when do I stop feeding them and when to I put the pumps and filters to bed?? I,m a first time mom and a worry wart,, I have happy healthy Koi and goldfish Ph levels are within norm, we are getting in to our rain season and had first frost last night Anna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31131	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Jimmy, Since you have dual filter systems, you do not have to be as concerned as someone with only a single filter system (especially someone with a small filter system whose only filter media might be a single cartridge). On my goldfish tank, where I also have dual filter systems, I can do more thorough cleaning of one of my filters each time I do maintenance and while this thorough cleaning will cause a very small mini-cycle, I've done the testing and can't even get an ammonia or nitrite level to show up after thoroughly cleaning one of my systems. The overwhelming majority of the nitrifying bacteria lives in the filters. Even when I thoroughly clean a filter, I still leave at least one phase of that filter untouched so the N-bacteria in that phase are not harmed. But I also have live plants in my tanks so any small ammonia level that might show up in the first 24 hours would be quickly used up by all of the nitrifying bacteria in the 2nd system the plants and the nitrifying bacteria growing on all of the other surface areas of the tank. While it might seem like you would be killing off up to 50% of your nitrifying bacteria when you do a thorough cleaning of one of your filter systems, it's probably less than 25%. I think that with dual filter systems, the nitrifying bacteria would be spread out with about 40% in each filter system and 20% in the rest of the tank. So if you clean one filter system completely, you could be killing off 40% but if you leave one phase of that system unharmed, they you would only be killing off no more than 25% or less. This means that 75% of your nitrifying bacteria are still in prime condition and the slight extra ammonia would just be considered a little midnight snack for them while the just cleaned filter catches back up on it's N-bacteria colony. Also, as I'm sure you know, you should not clean the Bio-Wheel and this is where the majority of the N-bacteria lives on those filter systems. Dr. Tim Hovanec, when with Marineland, invented the Bio-Wheel as a way for Marineland to still be able to push changing out filter cartridges every month without causing harm to the fish so it was a win-win filter system. Even on my Bio-Wheel systems, I don't change the cartridges since my money is better off in my wallet, rather than Marineland's... and I actually add filter media to the cartridge and reservoir since their cartridges are pretty flimsy and do not have much mechanical filtration if used as they come out the package. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Thanks Ray, The ph difference was my main concern. Out of the tap it is about 0.6 difference in ph from my tank. I have two canisters and two biowheels on the tank and I alternate cleaning the media in the tap water. That may be why I haven't detected the mini cycle after doing so. I will start drawing the water needed to clean the media ahead of time so the CO2 can outgas and therefore there will not be as great a difference in ph. Thanks for pointing this out. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 10:23:19 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Jim, I believe I referred to chloramine and/or chlorine in every message I posted on this topic when considering tap water to be avoided for cleaning filter media, which has nothing to do with private well water (having no such additives), and which is why I purposely expressed "chloramine" when referring to that tap water. So, other than your well water's pH possibly being considerably lower, there's no other reason why you wouldn't be able to safely use your tap/well water for this purpose. I do see an issue with a pH difference though (perhaps your isn't that great), especially as you haven't stated what this pH difference might be. Some well water can have a pH difference of at least pH 0.6 or more, which I could see might be detrimental especially if its in the acid range. Acid water is not very conducive to the longevity of bacteria in general. If you haven't detected any noticeable difference in the performance of your nitrifying bacteria, I wouldn't worry about it too much, but its something to consider if you ever see a problem. If preferring to use your tap water, rather than drawing a bucket of aquarium water, you might want to use a bucket of tap water that has been allowed to off-gas its CO2. Getting back to the effects of chloramine on nitrifying bacteria though, I highly suspect an error in the calculation of a safe-time duration of 5 minutes as still being sustainable for life of these nitrifiers. When chloramine was first introduced in this area some 18 years ago (with little if any notification) , I witnessed much higher life forms (FISH) get totally decimated (killed) by exposures of only 10 minutes to this disinfectant. I would think that should say something for its effects. Quantities of this water supply additive can vary from 0.5ppm to 2.0ppm as for the amount of chloramine being used by any one supplier, but then too, it should be considered that much colder water in winter has the capacity hold greater amounts of any gases per volume of the water being supplied. The effects of chloramine to water in winter cannot readily be seen as it doesn't off-gas, but when chlorine was previously used during the coldest seasons, the much larger capacity for water to hold increased amounts of gas were quite obvious as when first drawn, this tap water had noticeable clouds of chlorine gas bubbles rising through it accompanied by its distinctive smell -- regardless of how much or how little of the gas the supplier put in it at its treatment plant. The water just had the tendancy to absorb more per cubic foot because of its lower temperature. I'd suspect the amount of chlorine in the water supply obtained at the receiving end was much greater than the amount the water supplier intended when introducing the disinfectant at the treament plant end. Then too, the amount of these gases will also vary in proportion to how far the outlet (tap) is from the pumping plant, which is still something to consider today with chloramine (I was within 2 miles of the treatment plant). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@. ..> wrote: > > Ray, Lenny and Steve, > > Does the advice of always using tank water to clean filter media apply to well water that does not contain chlorine and chloramine. The ph is depressed with CO2 but rises to the tank ph quickly.. The temperature of the well (tap) water is the same temperature as the tank. I have been cleaning my filter media under the well (tap) water without any detectable mini cycling problems so far. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 6:21:56 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than > your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your > fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that > dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with frequent > and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will > closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we > try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the > tank to an environment drastically different). > > While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the > temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently > prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water > conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of > these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media > in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist from > doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of aquarium > water in doing so whenever possible. > > You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient > for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be > discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more work, > yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. > Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your > filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this > as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by > chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water > while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out > their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the > very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going on > as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please consider > this when cleaning yours. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@ > > wrote: > > > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my > tank, and > > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish > seem ok with > > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think > thats > > why. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ > > ..>wrote: > > > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > chlorine/chloramine > > > in > > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. > After all, > > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents > to > > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking > something for at > > > least five minutes or more before the low level of > chlorine/chloramine in > > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the > usually abrupt > > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > the > > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to > harm/death. > > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank > water so > > > the > > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > acclimated to. > > > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to > some tap > > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > would likely > > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way > because of the > > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a > drastic change > > > in > > > water parameters. > > > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > grabbing > > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw > their > > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even > more... > > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > > referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto: > > > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter > medium, and > > > i > > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com><mailto: > > > AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. . com>> , > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > its > > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > problem > > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > change > > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the > filter > > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it > (unless > > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only > one > > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > parts, > > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media > using > > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use > a pail > > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > topic > > > > at hand > > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i > read > > > > here > > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause > issues, mini > > > > cycles > > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my > question is, > > > > what is > > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up > the > > > > bacteria > > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so > the > > > > swap is > > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter > media? I am > > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that > is > > > > what i > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > way > > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > you > > > > may > > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > one > > > > way > > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would > not yet > > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > should not > > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although > I do > > > > note > > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > > interum, > > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely > be a > > > > major > > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > cloudiness > > > > is > > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. > Keep us > > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > given by > > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > > control. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > have > > > > one( > > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn > it back > > > > on > > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, > in > > > > levels > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I > know, > > > > does > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > which > > > > you > > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > are 3 > > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > each > > > > one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given > results for > > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > > determining > > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and > fresh > > > > water > > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > as the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous > message > > > > above > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > > message > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have > you > > > > tested > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > 0.01ppm is > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > well > > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm > to > > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how > frequent > > > > you do > > > > > > > > PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, > but not > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > reading > > > > is > > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients > required of > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > bacterial > > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > > plants, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > There > > > > is > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks > can't be > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris > can get > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > > through a > > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there > are > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > also > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do > not > > > > know > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are > you > > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > just > > > > do > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail > shells > > > > which > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > If you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > (and > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > look for > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > > removed. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer > is > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?).. Then, unless > you made > > > > a > > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > concentrations at > > > > all > > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are > your > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > completed > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks > like > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > enough to > > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > > cycled, > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > short > > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will > only > > > > serve > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > contains > > > > their > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which > is > > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > the > > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > > numerous > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the > amount and > > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > > nutrients > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population > of > > > > plants > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > > should > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but > instead do > > > > half > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel > > > > of > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > bloom > > > > and > > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5.. Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. > > > > > > > > > > > > > kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone. > and > > > > yes i > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > loaches > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > now > > > > and > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according > to the > > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > already. > > > > i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > today. I > > > > > > added a > > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to > all the > > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 > > > 4:34:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 11:47:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 12:55:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31132	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on

Will you be overwintering them in the pond or in an inside tank? In either case, when the water temperatures get down into the high 50's F, you want to slow down the feeding and change their diet. When they get down to the low 50's and stay in the low 50's or lower, you will stop feeding them completely. You should test your water first thing in the morning, when it will be coldest, and then at right before nightime when it will likely have heated up the most and let us know what those temps are. Test the water around mid-depth and at the deepest section. Here's a water temperature related feeding article - http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=55&Itemid =58> &task=view&id=55&Itemid=58 More Feeding info - http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57&Itemid =58> &task=view&id=57&Itemid=58 If the links break, just go to http://www.texaskoi.com and use their Keyword Search for feeding or winter to find the articles. I have a couple of blog articles about my ponds and have links to several overwintering articles in those blog articles where you can read much more detailed information. Actually, here is the main link to the series of pond articles. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/index.html You want to read several of the articles in the second section called "The Seasons" and you will see several of those articles have "overwintering" in their titles so read them first. I'm down in N'Awlins (New Orleans) so I don't have the issues you will have with overwintering but there are many members out here that do live in the North Pole climates LOL so I'm sure they'll chime in with more info after you answer the above questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mattsmom Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on In The Morning, Cloudeight Stationery, Pastel Notes Stationery Collection I need advice please , I have posted before same ask but never saw a email,, I live in Oregon E Gresham On the gorge line,, I need to know when to winter my babies, the temps are dipping now into the low 40,s and 30,s. with day temps in the 50,s when do I stop feeding them and when to I put the pumps and filters to bed?? I,m a first time mom and a worry wart,, I have happy healthy Koi and goldfish Ph levels are within norm, we are getting in to our rain season and had first frost last night Anna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 12:57:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 1:13:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31133	From: PATRICIA SALZMANN	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: GOLDFISH RESCUE

I saw a bargain on Craigs list. A 40G with filter, hood, light, stand, gravel and deco for $65. I went to pick it up and the woman offered to throw in the fish- 2 Goldfish and 2 Plecos. If I didn't take them she was going to flush them. The Goldfish are Veiltails I think about 5 inches and 4 inches, a little smaller than tennis ball size I guess. She gave me food for them but I have no clue how to care for them. I don't want to keep them but until I can rehome them I will do what I can. I may keep the Plecos if they can be kept in a 40 and a 30. I think the 40 is too small for all of these fish. I would appreciate any input on caring for all these fish. Also the filter she gave me is a Penguin biowheel. Anyone have experience with these. The filter was filthy dirty (the whole tank was) so I put a new one in. Do I need to replace the wheel thingy. It looks awful dirty and why does it say triple filtration, I only see the blue cpongy thing and the paper wheel. Oh maybe they are figuring the charcoal inside the blue thingy is seperate. By the way, the stand was a metal stand and a wooden cabinet was built around it, the tank is a 40G high. I will probably replace the hood and light becasue it is very crusted and the gravel is pretty but sparse. It also had a pretty background on it. I think I got a good deal for my $65,

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31134	From: ambyrlorenzo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: I just cant believe it!

I have many tanks in my home, many that are species specific and when I woke up this morning I had baby fry....not sure what kind...in my Apple snail tank...This tank is home to mystery apple snails and I rubberlip pleco...the fry are tiny neon looking blue slivers, after getting over the shock I promptly fed them liquid fry food and infusoria and turned the lights out(in case they are neon tetras) and filter off (they are so tiny get sucked up) but now I am left wondering what are these lil guys and where did they come from??? 1 month ago there was leopard danios(5) and dwarf gouramis(2) in this same tank but really??? Any ideas anyone???? They are lil blue slivers with blowing blue eyes and stripes down their sides. Thanks for reading and any input! Ambyr

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31135	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE

Yes, you got a very good deal. But neither the 40G or 30G are big enough for goldfish as a general rule although they could work with a proper tank/filter maintenance with one fish in each tank or if the goldfish are more than a few years old, they might be able to both be put in the 40G but you will have to do twice weekly PWC's (partial water changes) with two goldfish in a 40G. If the goldfish are more than a few years old, they are probably full grown and partially stunted due to being kept in the undersized tank. The minimum tank size that I recommend for two juvi fancy goldfish is a 55G 4' tank which will give them a good chance at growing out properly. Stunted fish will usually have a lot more health problems and not live a full lifespan which is why we should strive to NOT stunt our fish. If your goldfish are as grown as they are going to get, then keeping them in the 40G could work OK as long as you are willing to do the frequent PWC's and filter maintenance to keep their water quality in good condition. Adding some live plants to help with their water quality will also help. You are facing the same issues with the plecos depending on their species. There are literally hundreds of pleco species but the most common ones, usually called "Common Plecos" (imagine that..lol) actually get much too big for either of those tanks. Common plecos grow to 18"+ and need at least 75G of water volume. There are smaller species of plecos that are becoming more common like the BN Pleco (bristle nosed) or clown pleco which could work out in either of your tanks since they only grow to 5-6". If you go to my blog, I have a long article called "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as a general reference for all filters but I also have a "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel" which will be very similar to what you have and you can see how I also modified the filter cartridge to make the system work better. The Bio-Wheel (pleated paper wheel) does not have to be changed as long as it's not damaged so it spins OK. Hopefully you haven't done too much cleaning of the tank or filter system yet so you can read the above articles and keep your filter properly "cycled" so you don't have ammonia/nitrite issues to deal with. For either goldfish or plecos, you do not want a lot of gravel... usually only 1/2" to 1"... since they are both big waste producers. Goldfish are bad.. plecos are big-time poopers. LOL So the less gravel you have the easier it is to vacuum when doing PWC's. If the hood and light fixture are just "crusted" with hard water/mineral build-up, that can usually be easily cleaned up with plain vinegar so try cleaning it first. If you do decide to go with some live plants, you'll probably want to change the bulb and it's a good idea to change them every six months and no more than a year. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PATRICIA SALZMANN Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE I saw a bargain on Craigs list. A 40G with filter, hood, light, stand, gravel and deco for $65. I went to pick it up and the woman offered to throw in the fish- 2 Goldfish and 2 Plecos. If I didn't take them she was going to flush them. The Goldfish are Veiltails I think about 5 inches and 4 inches, a little smaller than tennis ball size I guess. She gave me food for them but I have no clue how to care for them. I don't want to keep them but until I can rehome them I will do what I can. I may keep the Plecos if they can be kept in a 40 and a 30. I think the 40 is too small for all of these fish. I would appreciate any input on caring for all these fish. Also the filter she gave me is a Penguin biowheel. Anyone have experience with these. The filter was filthy dirty (the whole tank was) so I put a new one in. Do I need to replace the wheel thingy. It looks awful dirty and why does it say triple filtration, I only see the blue cpongy thing and the paper wheel. Oh maybe they are figuring the charcoal inside the blue thingy is seperate. By the way, the stand was a metal stand and a wooden cabinet was built around it, the tank is a 40G high. I will probably replace the hood and light becasue it is very crusted and the gravel is pretty but sparse. It also had a pretty background on it. I think I got a good deal for my $65, _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 2:26:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

Well, it's obvious that you have a pair of the rare and often unseen Star-Trek tetras and with the help of their accomplice, the Spock tetra, they were being beamed around from tank to tank in order to lay eggs that then seem to miraculously hatch in a tank where there are no fish. There you go. Case Closed! LOL (Geez.. I probably sound like a Star-Trek geek but I'm not... really.. I'm not! LOL) Just kidding obviously about the fish. But depending on what they grow up to be, it's obvious that you had some kind of cross contamination either with moving a plant around or possibly even the eggs getting caught on a fish net and being moved to another tank or possibly even from a newly purchased plant. If they don't grow up to be fish, they could be one of many insect larvae. At least you know they aren't Dragonfly/Mosquito hawk larvae as those larvae are huge and ugly creatures. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ambyrlorenzo Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it! I have many tanks in my home, many that are species specific and when I woke up this morning I had baby fry....not sure what kind...in my Apple snail tank...This tank is home to mystery apple snails and I rubberlip pleco...the fry are tiny neon looking blue slivers, after getting over the shock I promptly fed them liquid fry food and infusoria and turned the lights out(in case they are neon tetras) and filter off (they are so tiny get sucked up) but now I am left wondering what are these lil guys and where did they come from??? 1 month ago there was leopard danios(5) and dwarf gouramis(2) in this same tank but really??? Any ideas anyone???? They are lil blue slivers with blowing blue eyes and stripes down their sides. Thanks for reading and any input! Ambyr _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 2:38:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31137	From: ambyrlorenzo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

Well I dont really use a net in that tank, just havin snails and all...I did however just do a water change 2 days ago and two days b4 that had an attempt to breed Bettas that I thought was unsuccessful, two weeks ago I took a plant from a smaller tank and put it with the snails the robbed tank having 1 male betta and a few baby guppys. These are not however baby guppys. or Molly or platy, never had a successful betta hatch so maybe cross contamination with the syphon hose? I rinse with HOT water between tanks but never know? LOL it is hilarious!!! We are calling them heaven fish till they grow since thats where we figure they musta come from LOL!! TY for your response;)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31138	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

I can relate to that. About 10 days ago I decided to remove the gravel from my 70 gallon cichlid tank. I netted all my cichlids and placed them in a holding tank. While removing the gravel with a cat litterbox pooper scooper I thought I spied another fish in the super murky water. I waited nearly an hour for the suspended detritus to settle, I spied it again and managed to net it and place it in one of my isolation tanks. It appeared to be a pleco or a catfish to me, but the mystery is how did it get there? There has never been any fish but the cichlids in this tank since I set it up. No plants of decorations were added. I have looked through all of the identification pictures trying to decide what it might be and asked for help in another group. The consensus is that it is a Bumblebee Catfish about 4.5 cm long.Meet "Snicklefritz"[IMG]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-038S.jpg%5b/IMG] Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: ambyrlorenzo@...: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 18:58:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it! I have many tanks in my home, many that are species specific and when I woke up this morning I had baby fry....not sure what kind...in my Apple snail tank...This tank is home to mystery apple snails and I rubberlip pleco...the fry are tiny neon looking blue slivers, after getting over the shock I promptly fed them liquid fry food and infusoria and turned the lights out(in case they are neon tetras) and filter off (they are so tiny get sucked up) but now I am left wondering what are these lil guys and where did they come from??? 1 month ago there was leopard danios(5) and dwarf gouramis(2) in this same tank but really??? Any ideas anyone???? They are lil blue slivers with blowing blue eyes and stripes down their sides. Thanks for reading and any input! Ambyr

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31139	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel of

Some of it looks like the photo -- like small tufts of cotton; but some looks like hair -- long and stringy; I just noticed that the hairy stuff is under the output of the filter, so maybe that made it stringy. I confess I haven't been vacuuming the gravel often enough. I'll do better about that. Will also check out the snails -- sounds like that's the way to go, rather than plecs. Thanks all. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Depending on tank size, even the smaller pleco species could be too large. > There are the very small Otos but they should be kept in a group of five or > more so then you are right back up to a heavier bioload potential. For 20G > or less, and for minimal bioload on the tank, I'd probably go with a couple > of Mystery Snails (Gold, Black, Purple and probably other colors). They'll > nibble on algae, uneaten food, etc. They don't multiply like some other > nuisance snails and if they do, they'll lay a rather large clutch of eggs > above the water line so they can be removed if you don't want snail babies > (did anyone say caviar? lol). MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails) are also a > good snail since they don't breed like crazy either and they are known for > burrowing into the substrate (although it has to be light enough). Nerite > snails are another snail that is growing in popularity as they do not breed > at all in freshwater. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:39 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing > on the gravel of my platy tank? > > > Not all plecos get large. Bristle nose plecos are great for algae and they > don't get that big. About 4-5 inches. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@... > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : shrlycat@... > <mailto:shrlycat%40yahoo.comDate> : Wed, 8 Oct 2008 21:39:18 +0000Subject: > [AquaticLife] What is this white, hairy-looking stuff growing on the gravel > of my platy tank? > > The growth of this white, hairy algae or whatever all over the > gravelcoincides with the removal of the tank's plec to a larger tank, so > I'mwondering if this is something the plec kept under control. It > doesn'tappear to be affecting the fish. I don't want to get another > plec,since they grow so large, but perhaps some other bottom-feeder couldbe > useful, and if so, what? Your advice please. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 > Tested on: 10/8/2008 6:11:28 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31140	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

Well, in that case, might I suggest the scientific name be something like Immaculatus ambyrens.... the Immaculate Ambyrfish! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ambyrlorenzo Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I just cant believe it! Well I dont really use a net in that tank, just havin snails and all...I did however just do a water change 2 days ago and two days b4 that had an attempt to breed Bettas that I thought was unsuccessful, two weeks ago I took a plant from a smaller tank and put it with the snails the robbed tank having 1 male betta and a few baby guppys. These are not however baby guppys. or Molly or platy, never had a successful betta hatch so maybe cross contamination with the syphon hose? I rinse with HOT water between tanks but never know? LOL it is hilarious!!! We are calling them heaven fish till they grow since thats where we figure they musta come from LOL!! TY for your response;) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 3:22:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31141	From: The Dragon Hunter	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Rubernose Plecos

How does it take a rubbernose pleco to reach its adult size? Mainly for curiosity sake. Saw some at the LFS and they're currently no bigger than ottos, and I saw they get around 5-6", hence my question. Be a nice change from BN's. :D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31142	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

It really is butter. We promise. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31143	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

Yep... definitely a catfish... good looking one too! Have you been able to see if it has the suckermouth? Is it armored (spiny plates or smooth skin?)? It's almost 2" long so it's strange that it could have hid for so long but if it's not an armored catfish (pleco), it may have had to stay hidden for survival purposes. How long has the tank been set up and how long since you've last added fish? I'm guessing you've never had live plants?? It most likely was a tiny fry caught up in the purchase of your original fish and somehow survived. It could have even been adopted by one of the cichlids which kept it from being eaten by the others. I've seen these anomalies where a fry or feeder fish that should have been eaten is allowed to survive and live amongst it's predators. You may not want to put it back in the tank until after you've ID'ed it properly as there could be a little chaos in your tank with the cichlids trying to reestablish their territories and the little guy could end up in harms way and it's possible previous "big brother" might be too busy to help. Did you have plans for a new tank? ;-) If you want to definitely ID it, which I would recommend, go to http://www.PlanetCatfish.com and http://www.PlecoFanatics.com and they both have an "ID my fish" forum section where you can post the image. The folks over there will most certainly be able to ID it by now... although the PlecoFanatics folks did have trouble with a rescued Pleco that I got when I adopted/rescued a 10G tank but the little 4" pleco grew up to be a Liposarcus Pardalis (one of the "common" plecos). I had to rehome him last year when he started getting too big for a 65G tank. You'll want to find out the scientific name as common names are notoriously re-used in the fish industry so there might be many species of catfish called the Bumblebee catfish. Here is a reputable profile on ScotCats.com (they also have forums for ID purposes) and you'll see where they mention other catfish also called the Bumblebee catfish and it doesn't look like it should be in with cichlids. http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/microglanis_iheringi.htm PlanetCatfish has this profile on another species also called Bumblebee Catfish http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=708 I'm sure there are others but those two jumped out at me as reputable sites and showed up at the top of my Google search for "Bumblebee Catfish". They each have plenty of photos so hopefully you'll be able to match yours to the right one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Greymane Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:07 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it! I can relate to that. About 10 days ago I decided to remove the gravel from my 70 gallon cichlid tank. I netted all my cichlids and placed them in a holding tank. While removing the gravel with a cat litterbox pooper scooper I thought I spied another fish in the super murky water. I waited nearly an hour for the suspended detritus to settle, I spied it again and managed to net it and place it in one of my isolation tanks. It appeared to be a pleco or a catfish to me, but the mystery is how did it get there? There has never been any fish but the cichlids in this tank since I set it up. No plants of decorations were added. I have looked through all of the identification pictures trying to decide what it might be and asked for help in another group. The consensus is that it is a Bumblebee Catfish about 4.5 cm long.Meet "Snicklefritz"[IMG]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-0 38S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-038S.jpg> [/IMG] Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : ambyrlorenzo@... <mailto:ambyrlorenzo%40yahoo.comDate> : Thu, 9 Oct 2008 18:58:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it! I have many tanks in my home, many that are species specific and when I woke up this morning I had baby fry....not sure what kind...in my Apple snail tank...This tank is home to mystery apple snails and I rubberlip pleco...the fry are tiny neon looking blue slivers, after getting over the shock I promptly fed them liquid fry food and infusoria and turned the lights out(in case they are neon tetras) and filter off (they are so tiny get sucked up) but now I am left wondering what are these lil guys and where did they come from??? 1 month ago there was leopard danios(5) and dwarf gouramis(2) in this same tank but really??? Any ideas anyone???? They are lil blue slivers with blowing blue eyes and stripes down their sides. Thanks for reading and any input! Ambyr ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 3:24:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 3:51:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31144	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE

If the penguin filters are anything like the emperor filters, they come with a gray insert that goes in the well with the filter that you can put chemical filtration like charcoal in. Lenny did you modify the actual filter cartridge? I have been trying to come up with a way to make it so the filter material (and that would be just filter material with no charcoal inside I have the gray container for that) replaceable without having to replace the enire cartridge. I love my emperor filters they do an awesome job of keeping my tanks clean .and that is with plants that thrive. I have 2 55gals and both have common plecos. One is pretty big, but he does fine he just hands on the side of the tank anyway and doesn’t move that much unless one of the more aggressive fish start messing with him. The other one never really got that big and is probably ½ the size of the other one though the smaller one is a bit older. Up until recently they were in separate tanks (we just moved and I am taking advantage of that to get a new stand, so I haven’t set up my second tank yet )I was thinking of doing an angel tank the local LFS apparently deals with someone that regularly has lots of angel babies :-D I also have a couple of the dwarf plecos a bulldog and an albino brisletnose they are pretty cool and they only get a few inches long. I think the coolest fish (and the ugliest hehe) are my dragonfish (Violet Goby). Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE Yes, you got a very good deal. But neither the 40G or 30G are big enough for goldfish as a general rule although they could work with a proper tank/filter maintenance with one fish in each tank or if the goldfish are more than a few years old, they might be able to both be put in the 40G but you will have to do twice weekly PWC's (partial water changes) with two goldfish in a 40G. If the goldfish are more than a few years old, they are probably full grown and partially stunted due to being kept in the undersized tank. The minimum tank size that I recommend for two juvi fancy goldfish is a 55G 4' tank which will give them a good chance at growing out properly. Stunted fish will usually have a lot more health problems and not live a full lifespan which is why we should strive to NOT stunt our fish. If your goldfish are as grown as they are going to get, then keeping them in the 40G could work OK as long as you are willing to do the frequent PWC's and filter maintenance to keep their water quality in good condition. Adding some live plants to help with their water quality will also help. You are facing the same issues with the plecos depending on their species. There are literally hundreds of pleco species but the most common ones, usually called "Common Plecos" (imagine that..lol) actually get much too big for either of those tanks. Common plecos grow to 18"+ and need at least 75G of water volume. There are smaller species of plecos that are becoming more common like the BN Pleco (bristle nosed) or clown pleco which could work out in either of your tanks since they only grow to 5-6". If you go to my blog, I have a long article called "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as a general reference for all filters but I also have a "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel" which will be very similar to what you have and you can see how I also modified the filter cartridge to make the system work better. The Bio-Wheel (pleated paper wheel) does not have to be changed as long as it's not damaged so it spins OK. Hopefully you haven't done too much cleaning of the tank or filter system yet so you can read the above articles and keep your filter properly "cycled" so you don't have ammonia/nitrite issues to deal with. For either goldfish or plecos, you do not want a lot of gravel... usually only 1/2" to 1"... since they are both big waste producers. Goldfish are bad.. plecos are big-time poopers. LOL So the less gravel you have the easier it is to vacuum when doing PWC's. If the hood and light fixture are just "crusted" with hard water/mineral build-up, that can usually be easily cleaned up with plain vinegar so try cleaning it first. If you do decide to go with some live plants, you'll probably want to change the bulb and it's a good idea to change them every six months and no more than a year. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PATRICIA SALZMANN Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE I saw a bargain on Craigs list. A 40G with filter, hood, light, stand, gravel and deco for $65. I went to pick it up and the woman offered to throw in the fish- 2 Goldfish and 2 Plecos. If I didn't take them she was going to flush them. The Goldfish are Veiltails I think about 5 inches and 4 inches, a little smaller than tennis ball size I guess. She gave me food for them but I have no clue how to care for them. I don't want to keep them but until I can rehome them I will do what I can. I may keep the Plecos if they can be kept in a 40 and a 30. I think the 40 is too small for all of these fish. I would appreciate any input on caring for all these fish. Also the filter she gave me is a Penguin biowheel. Anyone have experience with these. The filter was filthy dirty (the whole tank was) so I put a new one in. Do I need to replace the wheel thingy. It looks awful dirty and why does it say triple filtration, I only see the blue cpongy thing and the paper wheel. Oh maybe they are figuring the charcoal inside the blue thingy is seperate. By the way, the stand was a metal stand and a wooden cabinet was built around it, the tank is a 40G high. I will probably replace the hood and light becasue it is very crusted and the gravel is pretty but sparse. It also had a pretty background on it. I think I got a good deal for my $65, _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 2:26:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Rubernose Plecos

Many factors decide this. Tank size and maintenance, proper feeding, genetics, etc. Many plecos are slow growers and live a long time. According to my own article on life spans of fish, http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l, the rubbernose lives for around 12 years so it could take up to half that time for it to reach full size but in a big enough tank and being fed properly, could reach adult size in 2-3 years. Another good dwarf pleco is the Clown Pleco (around 4-5"), which I recently added to my stocking, (Panaque maccus or Peckoltia pulcher... like many catfish, their scientific names are constantly being corrected). They were also much lower priced than the BN plecos at my LFS... I think around $3.00 versus $10.00 for the BN pleco which was another factor. ;-) http://www.worldcichlids.com/fishprofiles/clownpleco.html http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile80.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of The Dragon Hunter Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rubernose Plecos How does it take a rubbernose pleco to reach its adult size? Mainly for curiosity sake. Saw some at the LFS and they're currently no bigger than ottos, and I saw they get around 5-6", hence my question. Be a nice change from BN's. :D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 4:04:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

Uh Oh.. I see Mother Nature raising her eyebrows again. lol How are we turning fish threads into Parkay or I Can't Believe It's Not Butter threads? LOL I think "Promise" might be a margarine brand also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I just cant believe it! It really is butter. We promise. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 4:06:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE

Yes, I did surgery on the black filter screen part of the filter cartridge to open it up and dump the charcoal and then I put another piece of floss pad in there to add more mechanical filtration to the cartridge. I have pictures on my blog article "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin...". I believe Marineland licensed quite a few manufacturers to make their Bio-Wheel filter systems. Even the Wal-Mart brand, Aqua-tech, is a Marineland filter system as is the Emperor. The likely reason one of your common plecos didn't grow properly is directly due to the stunting issue we talk about so often. Both of them are probably stunted, with one being more adversely affected than the other. While a 55G might seem like a big tank for many, it's not nearly big enough for even a single common pleco. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE If the penguin filters are anything like the emperor filters, they come with a gray insert that goes in the well with the filter that you can put chemical filtration like charcoal in. Lenny did you modify the actual filter cartridge? I have been trying to come up with a way to make it so the filter material (and that would be just filter material with no charcoal inside I have the gray container for that) replaceable without having to replace the enire cartridge. I love my emperor filters they do an awesome job of keeping my tanks clean .and that is with plants that thrive. I have 2 55gals and both have common plecos. One is pretty big, but he does fine he just hands on the side of the tank anyway and doesn’t move that much unless one of the more aggressive fish start messing with him. The other one never really got that big and is probably ½ the size of the other one though the smaller one is a bit older. Up until recently they were in separate tanks (we just moved and I am taking advantage of that to get a new stand, so I haven’t set up my second tank yet )I was thinking of doing an angel tank the local LFS apparently deals with someone that regularly has lots of angel babies :-D I also have a couple of the dwarf plecos a bulldog and an albino brisletnose they are pretty cool and they only get a few inches long. I think the coolest fish (and the ugliest hehe) are my dragonfish (Violet Goby). Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE Yes, you got a very good deal. But neither the 40G or 30G are big enough for goldfish as a general rule although they could work with a proper tank/filter maintenance with one fish in each tank or if the goldfish are more than a few years old, they might be able to both be put in the 40G but you will have to do twice weekly PWC's (partial water changes) with two goldfish in a 40G. If the goldfish are more than a few years old, they are probably full grown and partially stunted due to being kept in the undersized tank. The minimum tank size that I recommend for two juvi fancy goldfish is a 55G 4' tank which will give them a good chance at growing out properly. Stunted fish will usually have a lot more health problems and not live a full lifespan which is why we should strive to NOT stunt our fish. If your goldfish are as grown as they are going to get, then keeping them in the 40G could work OK as long as you are willing to do the frequent PWC's and filter maintenance to keep their water quality in good condition. Adding some live plants to help with their water quality will also help. You are facing the same issues with the plecos depending on their species. There are literally hundreds of pleco species but the most common ones, usually called "Common Plecos" (imagine that..lol) actually get much too big for either of those tanks. Common plecos grow to 18"+ and need at least 75G of water volume. There are smaller species of plecos that are becoming more common like the BN Pleco (bristle nosed) or clown pleco which could work out in either of your tanks since they only grow to 5-6". If you go to my blog, I have a long article called "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as a general reference for all filters but I also have a "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel" which will be very similar to what you have and you can see how I also modified the filter cartridge to make the system work better. The Bio-Wheel (pleated paper wheel) does not have to be changed as long as it's not damaged so it spins OK. Hopefully you haven't done too much cleaning of the tank or filter system yet so you can read the above articles and keep your filter properly "cycled" so you don't have ammonia/nitrite issues to deal with. For either goldfish or plecos, you do not want a lot of gravel... usually only 1/2" to 1"... since they are both big waste producers. Goldfish are bad.. plecos are big-time poopers. LOL So the less gravel you have the easier it is to vacuum when doing PWC's. If the hood and light fixture are just "crusted" with hard water/mineral build-up, that can usually be easily cleaned up with plain vinegar so try cleaning it first. If you do decide to go with some live plants, you'll probably want to change the bulb and it's a good idea to change them every six months and no more than a year. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PATRICIA SALZMANN Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE I saw a bargain on Craigs list. A 40G with filter, hood, light, stand, gravel and deco for $65. I went to pick it up and the woman offered to throw in the fish- 2 Goldfish and 2 Plecos. If I didn't take them she was going to flush them. The Goldfish are Veiltails I think about 5 inches and 4 inches, a little smaller than tennis ball size I guess. She gave me food for them but I have no clue how to care for them. I don't want to keep them but until I can rehome them I will do what I can. I may keep the Plecos if they can be kept in a 40 and a 30. I think the 40 is too small for all of these fish. I would appreciate any input on caring for all these fish. Also the filter she gave me is a Penguin biowheel. Anyone have experience with these. The filter was filthy dirty (the whole tank was) so I put a new one in. Do I need to replace the wheel thingy. It looks awful dirty and why does it say triple filtration, I only see the blue cpongy thing and the paper wheel. Oh maybe they are figuring the charcoal inside the blue thingy is seperate. By the way, the stand was a metal stand and a wooden cabinet was built around it, the tank is a 40G high. I will probably replace the hood and light becasue it is very crusted and the gravel is pretty but sparse. It also had a pretty background on it. I think I got a good deal for my $65, _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 2:26:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 4:08:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 4:16:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31148	From: ambyrlorenzo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

Now I like that!!! Ambyrfish!LOL!!! They are very pretty and really the most colorful fry I have ever seen:) I guess I have some new friends:)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31149	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE

The odd thing is they both grew up in 55 gallon tanks why was one stunted and the other not? Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE Yes, I did surgery on the black filter screen part of the filter cartridge to open it up and dump the charcoal and then I put another piece of floss pad in there to add more mechanical filtration to the cartridge. I have pictures on my blog article "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin...". I believe Marineland licensed quite a few manufacturers to make their Bio-Wheel filter systems. Even the Wal-Mart brand, Aqua-tech, is a Marineland filter system as is the Emperor. The likely reason one of your common plecos didn't grow properly is directly due to the stunting issue we talk about so often. Both of them are probably stunted, with one being more adversely affected than the other. While a 55G might seem like a big tank for many, it's not nearly big enough for even a single common pleco. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE If the penguin filters are anything like the emperor filters, they come with a gray insert that goes in the well with the filter that you can put chemical filtration like charcoal in. Lenny did you modify the actual filter cartridge? I have been trying to come up with a way to make it so the filter material (and that would be just filter material with no charcoal inside I have the gray container for that) replaceable without having to replace the enire cartridge. I love my emperor filters they do an awesome job of keeping my tanks clean .and that is with plants that thrive. I have 2 55gals and both have common plecos. One is pretty big, but he does fine he just hands on the side of the tank anyway and doesn’t move that much unless one of the more aggressive fish start messing with him. The other one never really got that big and is probably ½ the size of the other one though the smaller one is a bit older. Up until recently they were in separate tanks (we just moved and I am taking advantage of that to get a new stand, so I haven’t set up my second tank yet )I was thinking of doing an angel tank the local LFS apparently deals with someone that regularly has lots of angel babies :-D I also have a couple of the dwarf plecos a bulldog and an albino brisletnose they are pretty cool and they only get a few inches long. I think the coolest fish (and the ugliest hehe) are my dragonfish (Violet Goby). Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:26 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE Yes, you got a very good deal. But neither the 40G or 30G are big enough for goldfish as a general rule although they could work with a proper tank/filter maintenance with one fish in each tank or if the goldfish are more than a few years old, they might be able to both be put in the 40G but you will have to do twice weekly PWC's (partial water changes) with two goldfish in a 40G. If the goldfish are more than a few years old, they are probably full grown and partially stunted due to being kept in the undersized tank. The minimum tank size that I recommend for two juvi fancy goldfish is a 55G 4' tank which will give them a good chance at growing out properly. Stunted fish will usually have a lot more health problems and not live a full lifespan which is why we should strive to NOT stunt our fish. If your goldfish are as grown as they are going to get, then keeping them in the 40G could work OK as long as you are willing to do the frequent PWC's and filter maintenance to keep their water quality in good condition. Adding some live plants to help with their water quality will also help. You are facing the same issues with the plecos depending on their species. There are literally hundreds of pleco species but the most common ones, usually called "Common Plecos" (imagine that..lol) actually get much too big for either of those tanks. Common plecos grow to 18"+ and need at least 75G of water volume. There are smaller species of plecos that are becoming more common like the BN Pleco (bristle nosed) or clown pleco which could work out in either of your tanks since they only grow to 5-6". If you go to my blog, I have a long article called "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as a general reference for all filters but I also have a "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel" which will be very similar to what you have and you can see how I also modified the filter cartridge to make the system work better. The Bio-Wheel (pleated paper wheel) does not have to be changed as long as it's not damaged so it spins OK. Hopefully you haven't done too much cleaning of the tank or filter system yet so you can read the above articles and keep your filter properly "cycled" so you don't have ammonia/nitrite issues to deal with. For either goldfish or plecos, you do not want a lot of gravel... usually only 1/2" to 1"... since they are both big waste producers. Goldfish are bad.. plecos are big-time poopers. LOL So the less gravel you have the easier it is to vacuum when doing PWC's. If the hood and light fixture are just "crusted" with hard water/mineral build-up, that can usually be easily cleaned up with plain vinegar so try cleaning it first. If you do decide to go with some live plants, you'll probably want to change the bulb and it's a good idea to change them every six months and no more than a year. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PATRICIA SALZMANN Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE I saw a bargain on Craigs list. A 40G with filter, hood, light, stand, gravel and deco for $65. I went to pick it up and the woman offered to throw in the fish- 2 Goldfish and 2 Plecos. If I didn't take them she was going to flush them. The Goldfish are Veiltails I think about 5 inches and 4 inches, a little smaller than tennis ball size I guess. She gave me food for them but I have no clue how to care for them. I don't want to keep them but until I can rehome them I will do what I can. I may keep the Plecos if they can be kept in a 40 and a 30. I think the 40 is too small for all of these fish. I would appreciate any input on caring for all these fish. Also the filter she gave me is a Penguin biowheel. Anyone have experience with these. The filter was filthy dirty (the whole tank was) so I put a new one in. Do I need to replace the wheel thingy. It looks awful dirty and why does it say triple filtration, I only see the blue cpongy thing and the paper wheel. Oh maybe they are figuring the charcoal inside the blue thingy is seperate. By the way, the stand was a metal stand and a wooden cabinet was built around it, the tank is a 40G high. I will probably replace the hood and light becasue it is very crusted and the gravel is pretty but sparse. It also had a pretty background on it. I think I got a good deal for my $65, _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 2:26:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 4:08:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 4:16:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31150	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Live plants

First find out if your snails or fish eat plants. They ARE a maintenance hassle, but if you like them, you like them! Special lighting, substrate and fertilization are key. Much easier to do water changes than have plants IMO. And you will still get the spots on the live plants, but you can’t scrub them off, LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Live plants I am just starting to really look into live plants for my aquarium. It's been running about two months. After you get into this, the fake stuff is just so...fake. And I noticed on silk/fake plant has some brown spots (only on the plant, nowhere else) and it's just making me think fake isn't so great. In any case, I have a snail and probably will get a second (love them!) and would like to provide a good mix of live plants that will be beneficial to a typical freshwater community tank. This is my first tank ever, so I am keeping it simple as I learn. The fish are pretty basic -- tetras, mollies, some guppies and platys. We bought two aquatic wysteria, I believe. And they seem OK. Want to avoid making mistakes matching plants that will live well with my fish. I have been repeatedly discouraged to buy live plants by one of the local pet shop guys who says they are really a maintenance hassle. I think if they provide natural filtration and a little treat for the residents, then why not? Can anyone here point me to the pitfalls...if any...and advice of types of aquatic plants to get. Any links, too. Remember, I'm a beginner. This is a 38 gal, and my water is generally hard, if that makes a differece to the plants. I'm doing my research, but would love your input. Thanks all Alina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31151	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

Did you try planetcatfish.com? As you may know, mouthbrooders can hold Synodontis eggs maybe one of your females was holding Syno eggs when you acquired her? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Greymane Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:07 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it! I can relate to that. About 10 days ago I decided to remove the gravel from my 70 gallon cichlid tank. I netted all my cichlids and placed them in a holding tank. While removing the gravel with a cat litterbox pooper scooper I thought I spied another fish in the super murky water. I waited nearly an hour for the suspended detritus to settle, I spied it again and managed to net it and place it in one of my isolation tanks. It appeared to be a pleco or a catfish to me, but the mystery is how did it get there? There has never been any fish but the cichlids in this tank since I set it up. No plants of decorations were added. I have looked through all of the identification pictures trying to decide what it might be and asked for help in another group. The consensus is that it is a Bumblebee Catfish about 4.5 cm long.Meet "Snicklefritz"[IMG]http://i59.photobuc <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-038S.jpg> ket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-038S.jpg[/IMG] Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom: ambyrlorenzo@ <mailto:ambyrlorenzo%40yahoo.comDate> yahoo.comDate: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 18:58:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it! I have many tanks in my home, many that are species specific and when I woke up this morning I had baby fry....not sure what kind...in my Apple snail tank...This tank is home to mystery apple snails and I rubberlip pleco...the fry are tiny neon looking blue slivers, after getting over the shock I promptly fed them liquid fry food and infusoria and turned the lights out(in case they are neon tetras) and filter off (they are so tiny get sucked up) but now I am left wondering what are these lil guys and where did they come from??? 1 month ago there was leopard danios(5) and dwarf gouramis(2) in this same tank but really??? Any ideas anyone???? They are lil blue slivers with blowing blue eyes and stripes down their sides. Thanks for reading and any input! Ambyr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31152	From: mattsmom	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on

Bless you Lenny what a gold mine of wonderful info,,, they will winter outdoors have no room for the kids indoors as I live in a duplex, I have 10 fish kids some of whom were gifts some adopted, right now we have 3 shubunkin spelling?? in a 50 gallon aquarium indoors, our goal is expansion in the spring,, Anna From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on Will you be overwintering them in the pond or in an inside tank? In either case, when the water temperatures get down into the high 50's F, you want to slow down the feeding and change their diet. When they get down to the low 50's and stay in the low 50's or lower, you will stop feeding them completely. You should test your water first thing in the morning, when it will be coldest, and then at right before nightime when it will likely have heated up the most and let us know what those temps are. Test the water around mid-depth and at the deepest section. Here's a water temperature related feeding article - http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=55&Itemid =58> &task=view&id=55&Itemid=58 More Feeding info - http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57&Itemid =58> &task=view&id=57&Itemid=58 If the links break, just go to http://www.texaskoi.com and use their Keyword Search for feeding or winter to find the articles. I have a couple of blog articles about my ponds and have links to several overwintering articles in those blog articles where you can read much more detailed information. Actually, here is the main link to the series of pond articles. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/index.html You want to read several of the articles in the second section called "The Seasons" and you will see several of those articles have "overwintering" in their titles so read them first. I'm down in N'Awlins (New Orleans) so I don't have the issues you will have with overwintering but there are many members out here that do live in the North Pole climates LOL so I'm sure they'll chime in with more info after you answer the above questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mattsmom Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on In The Morning, Cloudeight Stationery, Pastel Notes Stationery Collection I need advice please , I have posted before same ask but never saw a email,, I live in Oregon E Gresham On the gorge line,, I need to know when to winter my babies, the temps are dipping now into the low 40,s and 30,s. with day temps in the 50,s when do I stop feeding them and when to I put the pumps and filters to bed?? I,m a first time mom and a worry wart,, I have happy healthy Koi and goldfish Ph levels are within norm, we are getting in to our rain season and had first frost last night Anna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 12:57:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 1:13:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1717 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 4:56 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31153	From: pam andress	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

Well I don't know if either of you use a python or some sort of vaccum for all your tanks, but I have found shrimp in a tank that I never put any in and I found one of my L333 plecos in my shrimp tank. The only thing I came up with was during cleaning, they got sucked up the tube and then put into a new tank with new water. A few weeks ago I sold my 2 glofish and 1 danio, a few days later I found a ton of fry in that tank. They had laid eggs at some time and hatched after I got rid of the parents. I have a mix of danios and pink glowfish. Pam To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom: huron62@...: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:06:35 -0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it! I can relate to that. About 10 days ago I decided to remove the gravel from my 70 gallon cichlid tank. I nettedall my cichlids and placed them in a holding tank. While removing thegravel with a cat litterbox pooper scooper I thought I spied anotherfish in the super murky water. I waited nearly an hour for thesuspended detritus to settle, I spied it again and managed to net itand place it in one of my isolation tanks. It appeared to be a pleco ora catfish to me, but the mystery is how did it get there? There hasnever been any fish but the cichlids in this tank since I set it up. No plants of decorations were added. Ihave looked through all of the identification pictures trying to decidewhat it might be and asked for help in another group. The consensus is that it is a Bumblebee Catfish about 4.5 cm long.Meet "Snicklefritz"[IMG]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-038S.jpg%5b/IMG]Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: ambyrlorenzo@...: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 18:58:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it!I have many tanks in my home, many that are species specific and when I woke up this morning I had baby fry....not sure what kind...in my Apple snail tank...This tank is home to mystery apple snails and I rubberlip pleco...the fry are tiny neon looking blue slivers, after getting over the shock I promptly fed them liquid fry food and infusoria and turned the lights out(in case they are neon tetras) and filter off (they are so tiny get sucked up) but now I am left wondering what are these lil guys and where did they come from??? 1 month ago there was leopard danios(5) and dwarf gouramis(2) in this same tank but really??? Any ideas anyone???? They are lil blue slivers with blowing blue eyes and stripes down their sides. Thanks for reading and any input!Ambyr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31154	From: Chris	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Vinegar Eels

I picked up some cider vinegar to start a vinegar eel culture and found out that in the US cider vinegar has to be filtered and pasteurized to be sold on the market. Is wiki wrong? So how do I get around this problem? How can I find these critters in nature? How do I create a culture? A link would be sufficient. Also, what are those complex multi-cellular micro organisms organisms that are cultured for fish fry? Infusia? What ever it was, I was reading that you can culture those off of lettuce. Also. Bloodworms are mosquito larvea right? I know you are thinking that I could research that on the net, but to be honest, I want to ask you cuz you might add something the website didn't mention.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31155	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE

There are always stronger, healthier fish from a genetic standpoint and the fish that is more able to tolerate the adverse conditions (high hormone levels, etc.) will grow while the other fish does not do as well. It's basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. In fact, with pleco's they are far more likely to be aggressive against conspecifics (their own kind) so there was likely a pecking order between these two fish and the smaller one was the more subservient fish so it didn't get as much food, territory, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE The odd thing is they both grew up in 55 gallon tanks why was one stunted and the other not? Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE Yes, I did surgery on the black filter screen part of the filter cartridge to open it up and dump the charcoal and then I put another piece of floss pad in there to add more mechanical filtration to the cartridge. I have pictures on my blog article "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin...". I believe Marineland licensed quite a few manufacturers to make their Bio-Wheel filter systems. Even the Wal-Mart brand, Aqua-tech, is a Marineland filter system as is the Emperor. The likely reason one of your common plecos didn't grow properly is directly due to the stunting issue we talk about so often. Both of them are probably stunted, with one being more adversely affected than the other. While a 55G might seem like a big tank for many, it's not nearly big enough for even a single common pleco. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE If the penguin filters are anything like the emperor filters, they come with a gray insert that goes in the well with the filter that you can put chemical filtration like charcoal in. Lenny did you modify the actual filter cartridge? I have been trying to come up with a way to make it so the filter material (and that would be just filter material with no charcoal inside I have the gray container for that) replaceable without having to replace the enire cartridge. I love my emperor filters they do an awesome job of keeping my tanks clean .and that is with plants that thrive. I have 2 55gals and both have common plecos. One is pretty big, but he does fine he just hands on the side of the tank anyway and doesn’t move that much unless one of the more aggressive fish start messing with him. The other one never really got that big and is probably ½ the size of the other one though the smaller one is a bit older. Up until recently they were in separate tanks (we just moved and I am taking advantage of that to get a new stand, so I haven’t set up my second tank yet )I was thinking of doing an angel tank the local LFS apparently deals with someone that regularly has lots of angel babies :-D I also have a couple of the dwarf plecos a bulldog and an albino brisletnose they are pretty cool and they only get a few inches long. I think the coolest fish (and the ugliest hehe) are my dragonfish (Violet Goby). Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:26 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE Yes, you got a very good deal. But neither the 40G or 30G are big enough for goldfish as a general rule although they could work with a proper tank/filter maintenance with one fish in each tank or if the goldfish are more than a few years old, they might be able to both be put in the 40G but you will have to do twice weekly PWC's (partial water changes) with two goldfish in a 40G. If the goldfish are more than a few years old, they are probably full grown and partially stunted due to being kept in the undersized tank. The minimum tank size that I recommend for two juvi fancy goldfish is a 55G 4' tank which will give them a good chance at growing out properly. Stunted fish will usually have a lot more health problems and not live a full lifespan which is why we should strive to NOT stunt our fish. If your goldfish are as grown as they are going to get, then keeping them in the 40G could work OK as long as you are willing to do the frequent PWC's and filter maintenance to keep their water quality in good condition. Adding some live plants to help with their water quality will also help. You are facing the same issues with the plecos depending on their species. There are literally hundreds of pleco species but the most common ones, usually called "Common Plecos" (imagine that..lol) actually get much too big for either of those tanks. Common plecos grow to 18"+ and need at least 75G of water volume. There are smaller species of plecos that are becoming more common like the BN Pleco (bristle nosed) or clown pleco which could work out in either of your tanks since they only grow to 5-6". If you go to my blog, I have a long article called "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as a general reference for all filters but I also have a "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel" which will be very similar to what you have and you can see how I also modified the filter cartridge to make the system work better. The Bio-Wheel (pleated paper wheel) does not have to be changed as long as it's not damaged so it spins OK. Hopefully you haven't done too much cleaning of the tank or filter system yet so you can read the above articles and keep your filter properly "cycled" so you don't have ammonia/nitrite issues to deal with. For either goldfish or plecos, you do not want a lot of gravel... usually only 1/2" to 1"... since they are both big waste producers. Goldfish are bad.. plecos are big-time poopers. LOL So the less gravel you have the easier it is to vacuum when doing PWC's. If the hood and light fixture are just "crusted" with hard water/mineral build-up, that can usually be easily cleaned up with plain vinegar so try cleaning it first. If you do decide to go with some live plants, you'll probably want to change the bulb and it's a good idea to change them every six months and no more than a year. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PATRICIA SALZMANN Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE I saw a bargain on Craigs list. A 40G with filter, hood, light, stand, gravel and deco for $65. I went to pick it up and the woman offered to throw in the fish- 2 Goldfish and 2 Plecos. If I didn't take them she was going to flush them. The Goldfish are Veiltails I think about 5 inches and 4 inches, a little smaller than tennis ball size I guess. She gave me food for them but I have no clue how to care for them. I don't want to keep them but until I can rehome them I will do what I can. I may keep the Plecos if they can be kept in a 40 and a 30. I think the 40 is too small for all of these fish. I would appreciate any input on caring for all these fish. Also the filter she gave me is a Penguin biowheel. Anyone have experience with these. The filter was filthy dirty (the whole tank was) so I put a new one in. Do I need to replace the wheel thingy. It looks awful dirty and why does it say triple filtration, I only see the blue cpongy thing and the paper wheel. Oh maybe they are figuring the charcoal inside the blue thingy is seperate. By the way, the stand was a metal stand and a wooden cabinet was built around it, the tank is a 40G high. I will probably replace the hood and light becasue it is very crusted and the gravel is pretty but sparse. It also had a pretty background on it. I think I got a good deal for my $65, _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 7:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31156	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

I hope they don't turn out to be insect larva... but heck, insects need friends too! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ambyrlorenzo Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I just cant believe it! Now I like that!!! Ambyrfish!LOL!!! They are very pretty and really the most colorful fry I have ever seen:) I guess I have some new friends:) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 7:11:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

Pam, I'm guessing the "glowfish" were actually "Glofish" http://www.glofish.com/ which are the genetically enhanced zebra danios so they have various day-glo coloring. They're all still zebra danios. I'm just adding this in case someone else is reading this and may not realize it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 6:40 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it! Well I don't know if either of you use a python or some sort of vaccum for all your tanks, but I have found shrimp in a tank that I never put any in and I found one of my L333 plecos in my shrimp tank. The only thing I came up with was during cleaning, they got sucked up the tube and then put into a new tank with new water. A few weeks ago I sold my 2 glofish and 1 danio, a few days later I found a ton of fry in that tank. They had laid eggs at some time and hatched after I got rid of the parents. I have a mix of danios and pink glowfish. Pam To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : huron62@... <mailto:huron62%40hotmail.comDate> : Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:06:35 -0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it! I can relate to that. About 10 days ago I decided to remove the gravel from my 70 gallon cichlid tank. I nettedall my cichlids and placed them in a holding tank. While removing thegravel with a cat litterbox pooper scooper I thought I spied anotherfish in the super murky water. I waited nearly an hour for thesuspended detritus to settle, I spied it again and managed to net itand place it in one of my isolation tanks. It appeared to be a pleco ora catfish to me, but the mystery is how did it get there? There hasnever been any fish but the cichlids in this tank since I set it up. No plants of decorations were added. Ihave looked through all of the identification pictures trying to decidewhat it might be and asked for help in another group. The consensus is that it is a Bumblebee Catfish about 4.5 cm long.Meet "Snicklefritz"[IMG]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-0 38S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-038S.jpg> [/IMG]Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : ambyrlorenzo@... <mailto:ambyrlorenzo%40yahoo.comDate> : Thu, 9 Oct 2008 18:58:51 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it!I have many tanks in my home, many that are species specific and when I woke up this morning I had baby fry....not sure what kind...in my Apple snail tank...This tank is home to mystery apple snails and I rubberlip pleco...the fry are tiny neon looking blue slivers, after getting over the shock I promptly fed them liquid fry food and infusoria and turned the lights out(in case they are neon tetras) and filter off (they are so tiny get sucked up) but now I am left wondering what are these lil guys and where did they come from??? 1 month ago there was leopard danios(5) and dwarf gouramis(2) in this same tank but really??? Any ideas anyone???? They are lil blue slivers with blowing blue eyes and stripes down their sides. Thanks for reading and any input!Ambyr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 7:08:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 8:00:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31158	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Zebra Danio Eggs

I do not know how many of you may have an interest in this, but here are some movies showing a cellular view of approximately the first 24 hours after the egg has been laid. I found the article in the newsletter Science Express--from Science magazine--which led me to the site where the movies can be found. Here is the abstract: "Reconstruction of Zebrafish Early Embryonic Development by Scanned Light Sheet Microscopy Philipp J. Keller 1*, Annette D. Schmidt 2, Joachim Wittbrodt 3*, Ernst H. K. Stelzer 4 1 Cell Biology and Biophysics Unit, European Molecular Biology Laboratory (EMBL), Meyerhofstrasse 1, D-69117 Heidelberg, Germany; Developmental Biology Unit, EMBL, Meyerhofstrasse 1, D-69117 Heidelberg, Germany. 2 Developmental Biology Unit, EMBL, Meyerhofstrasse 1, D-69117 Heidelberg, Germany. 3 Cell Biology and Biophysics Unit, European Molecular Biology Laboratory (EMBL), Meyerhofstrasse 1, D-69117 Heidelberg, Germany; Developmental Biology Unit, EMBL, Meyerhofstrasse 1, D-69117 Heidelberg, Germany. ; Institute of Zoology, Department for Developmental Physiology, University of Heidelberg, INF 230, D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany. ; Institute of Toxicology and Genetics, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT), Post Office Box 3640, D-76021 Karlsruhe, Germany. 4 Cell Biology and Biophysics Unit, European Molecular Biology Laboratory (EMBL), Meyerhofstrasse 1, D-69117 Heidelberg, Germany. * To whom correspondence should be addressed. Philipp J. Keller , E-mail: keller{at}embl.de Joachim Wittbrodt , E-mail: wittbrod{at}embl.de A long-standing goal of biology is to map the behavior of all cells during vertebrate embryogenesis. We developed digital scanned laser light sheet fluorescence microscopy and recorded nuclei localization and movement in entire wild-type and mutant zebrafish embryos over the first 24 hours of development. Multiview in vivo imaging at 1.5 billion voxels per minute provides "digital embryos" (i.e., comprehensive databases of cell positions, divisions, and migratory tracks). Our analysis of global cell division patterns reveals a maternally defined initial morphodynamic symmetry break, which identifies the embryonic body axis. We further derive a model of germ layer formation and show that the mesendoderm forms from one-third of the embryo's cells in a single event. Our digital embryos, with 55 million nucleus entries, are provided as a resource." To see the full article, you need to be an AAAS member, subscribe to the site ($99 - $146, depending on classification) or purchase a 1 day access to the article for $10. The movies, however, are free, and can be found at http://www.embl-heidelberg.de/digitalembryo/ , but beware that they are relatively large files, the smallest being around 13MB as a ZIP file. Interesting to watch, however. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31159	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Vinegar Eels

Chris, You need to get a starter culture of vinegar eels from another hobbyist or a biological supply house. Carolina Biological Supply House comes to mind (www.carolina.com). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 6:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Vinegar Eels I picked up some cider vinegar to start a vinegar eel culture and found out that in the US cider vinegar has to be filtered and pasteurized to be sold on the market. Is wiki wrong? So how do I get around this problem? How can I find these critters in nature? How do I create a culture? A link would be sufficient. Also, what are those complex multi-cellular micro organisms organisms that are cultured for fish fry? Infusia? What ever it was, I was reading that you can culture those off of lettuce. Also. Bloodworms are mosquito larvea right? I know you are thinking that I could research that on the net, but to be honest, I want to ask you cuz you might add something the website didn't mention.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31160	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on

If you are wintering over in the pond, the pond needs to be deeper than the frost line in your area. Do you know how deep that is? If it is not, you are taking a chance that the water could freeze solid (yep, just another thing to worry about). I do not know your area at all, coming from the East Coast, but if you are already getting frost, I'd suspect you are looking at a pond depth of at least 4 feet to successfully overwinter your fish in situ. It may be better, if you have a garage, to build a temporary pond of PVC, 2x6's and 2x4's and move the fish into that. Steve Meyer was a koi keeper--he wrote extensively on the subject in Aquarium Fish Magazine in the 70's and 80's (and a lot of what Lenny says about fish size and amounts of water needed are based on his work), built several of these in his basement in Sudbury, MA each year. (I was cautious going over there in the fall, in case he was unable to conscript enough grad students to do the work for him <g>.) Use water from the pond to help fill up your indoor pond, and canister filters to filter the water. By using pond water, you can move your fish right in. If you need to keep them outdoors, you need to maintain a hole in the ice. There are several ways to do this. The most reliable is to get a floating pond heater, to maintain a temperature just above freezing. Another way is to run an air pump to agitate the surface. The problem with this is that your water will have gradients of temperature, and an air stream strong enough to keep a hole open in the ice will have a tendency to mix the water too much to maintain any kind of gradient. Judging from what you mention about air temperature now, you may be past the point of feeding your fish. Koi should not be fed once the water temperature reaches 55^oF. Your fish should be good and fat right now so they can go through a stage of at least semi-hibernation during the winter. When you start to get skim ice in the morning, it will be time to do a final water change in your pond. This will help to reduce nitrates at the start of the winter, and remove DOC's that may prove harmful in large enough quantities over the winter. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mattsmom Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on Bless you Lenny what a gold mine of wonderful info,,, they will winter outdoors have no room for the kids indoors as I live in a duplex, I have 10 fish kids some of whom were gifts some adopted, right now we have 3 shubunkin spelling?? in a 50 gallon aquarium indoors, our goal is expansion in the spring,, Anna From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on Will you be overwintering them in the pond or in an inside tank? In either case, when the water temperatures get down into the high 50's F, you want to slow down the feeding and change their diet. When they get down to the low 50's and stay in the low 50's or lower, you will stop feeding them completely. You should test your water first thing in the morning, when it will be coldest, and then at right before nightime when it will likely have heated up the most and let us know what those temps are. Test the water around mid-depth and at the deepest section. Here's a water temperature related feeding article - http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=55&It emid =58> &task=view&id=55&Itemid=58 More Feeding info - http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57&It emid =58> &task=view&id=57&Itemid=58 If the links break, just go to http://www.texaskoi.com and use their Keyword Search for feeding or winter to find the articles. I have a couple of blog articles about my ponds and have links to several overwintering articles in those blog articles where you can read much more detailed information. Actually, here is the main link to the series of pond articles. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/index.html You want to read several of the articles in the second section called "The Seasons" and you will see several of those articles have "overwintering" in their titles so read them first. I'm down in N'Awlins (New Orleans) so I don't have the issues you will have with overwintering but there are many members out here that do live in the North Pole climates LOL so I'm sure they'll chime in with more info after you answer the above questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mattsmom Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on In The Morning, Cloudeight Stationery, Pastel Notes Stationery Collection I need advice please , I have posted before same ask but never saw a email,, I live in Oregon E Gresham On the gorge line,, I need to know when to winter my babies, the temps are dipping now into the low 40,s and 30,s. with day temps in the 50,s when do I stop feeding them and when to I put the pumps and filters to bed?? I,m a first time mom and a worry wart,, I have happy healthy Koi and goldfish Ph levels are within norm, we are getting in to our rain season and had first frost last night Anna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31161	From: Alina	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, there was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four other little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller than the tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only snail I have in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails aren't hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at pictures have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came from and if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride on live plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on them when I bought.. Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak havoc on my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely move them to another tank? So many questions, so many snails.... Thanks Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31162	From: mike	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: cycling complete?

ok, I've cycled for over a month (trickle filter, saltwater, fishless added amonia to 5 ppm) and now my amonia is 0. My nitrite is toward the top of chart at 1.5 ppm which leads me to think that the secondary bacteria isn't complete but my nitrate are also high on chart at 40-50 ppm. This is right after a 40% PWC. Should I add a little ammonia every day so the bacteria still has a food source? How long does it take for the bacteria to die? I'm thinking I need more time until the nitrites come down more.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31163	From: mike	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: vacuuming sand?

I would always gravel vacuum with a syphon and remove some nasty stuff. Now I have a new tank and went with sand with bacteria to speed up cycle. I haven't added fish yet, but how can you vacuum sand when it is so fine it will come right up? Should I just suck it up and replace with gravel slowly?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31164	From: pam andress	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: I just cant believe it!

Yes you are correct. I had a typo there. There should not have been a w on glofish. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 20:00:47 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it! Pam,I'm guessing the "glowfish" were actually "Glofish" http://www.glofish.com/which are the genetically enhanced zebra danios so they have various day-glocoloring. They're all still zebra danios. I'm just adding this in casesomeone else is reading this and may not realize it.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 6:40 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it!Well I don't know if either of you use a python or some sort of vaccum forall your tanks, but I have found shrimp in a tank that I never put any inand I found one of my L333 plecos in my shrimp tank. The only thing I cameup with was during cleaning, they got sucked up the tube and then put into anew tank with new water.A few weeks ago I sold my 2 glofish and 1 danio, a few days later I found aton of fry in that tank. They had laid eggs at some time and hatched after Igot rid of the parents. I have a mix of danios and pink glowfish.PamTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : huron62@...<mailto:huron62%40hotmail.comDate> : Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:06:35 -0400Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it!I can relate to that. About 10 days ago I decided to remove the gravel frommy 70 gallon cichlid tank. I nettedall my cichlids and placed them in aholding tank. While removing thegravel with a cat litterbox pooper scooper Ithought I spied anotherfish in the super murky water. I waited nearly anhour for thesuspended detritus to settle, I spied it again and managed tonet itand place it in one of my isolation tanks. It appeared to be a plecoora catfish to me, but the mystery is how did it get there? There hasneverbeen any fish but the cichlids in this tank since I set it up. No plants ofdecorations were added. Ihave looked through all of the identificationpictures trying to decidewhat it might be and asked for help in anothergroup. The consensus is that it is a Bumblebee Catfish about 4.5 cmlong.Meet"Snicklefritz"[IMG]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-038S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-038S.jpg>[/IMG]Grey·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. ,.·´¯`·..><((((º><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. ,.·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : ambyrlorenzo@...<mailto:ambyrlorenzo%40yahoo.comDate> : Thu, 9 Oct 2008 18:58:51+0000Subject: [AquaticLife] I just cant believe it!I have many tanks in myhome, many that are species specific and when I woke up this morning I hadbaby fry....not sure what kind...in my Apple snail tank...This tank is hometo mystery apple snails and I rubberlip pleco...the fry are tiny neonlooking blue slivers, after getting over the shock I promptly fed themliquid fry food and infusoria and turned the lights out(in case they areneon tetras) and filter off (they are so tiny get sucked up) but now I amleft wondering what are these lil guys and where did they come from??? 1month ago there was leopard danios(5) and dwarf gouramis(2) in this sametank but really??? Any ideas anyone???? They are lil blue slivers withblowing blue eyes and stripes down their sides. Thanks for reading and anyinput!Ambyr[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008Tested on: 10/9/2008 7:08:07 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008Tested on: 10/9/2008 8:00:47 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31165	From: mattsmom	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on

Ps my guys are fat little suckers and I have noticed they are also slowing down a tad, they seem to hug the lower depths they also have plenty of caves and cover plants,, I have so enjoyed them, they come to the surface for me and they know when it,s feeding time, they are big showoffs for guests , I think I am also going to cover the pond with netting to protect from the pine needles they are not under the pines but because of the location we get some pretty nasty wind in the winter bone chillin Anna From: Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on If you are wintering over in the pond, the pond needs to be deeper than the frost line in your area. Do you know how deep that is? If it is not, you are taking a chance that the water could freeze solid (yep, just another thing to worry about). I do not know your area at all, coming from the East Coast, but if you are already getting frost, I'd suspect you are looking at a pond depth of at least 4 feet to successfully overwinter your fish in situ. It may be better, if you have a garage, to build a temporary pond of PVC, 2x6's and 2x4's and move the fish into that. Steve Meyer was a koi keeper--he wrote extensively on the subject in Aquarium Fish Magazine in the 70's and 80's (and a lot of what Lenny says about fish size and amounts of water needed are based on his work), built several of these in his basement in Sudbury, MA each year. (I was cautious going over there in the fall, in case he was unable to conscript enough grad students to do the work for him <g>.) Use water from the pond to help fill up your indoor pond, and canister filters to filter the water. By using pond water, you can move your fish right in. If you need to keep them outdoors, you need to maintain a hole in the ice. There are several ways to do this. The most reliable is to get a floating pond heater, to maintain a temperature just above freezing. Another way is to run an air pump to agitate the surface. The problem with this is that your water will have gradients of temperature, and an air stream strong enough to keep a hole open in the ice will have a tendency to mix the water too much to maintain any kind of gradient. Judging from what you mention about air temperature now, you may be past the point of feeding your fish. Koi should not be fed once the water temperature reaches 55^oF. Your fish should be good and fat right now so they can go through a stage of at least semi-hibernation during the winter. When you start to get skim ice in the morning, it will be time to do a final water change in your pond. This will help to reduce nitrates at the start of the winter, and remove DOC's that may prove harmful in large enough quantities over the winter. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mattsmom Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on Bless you Lenny what a gold mine of wonderful info,,, they will winter outdoors have no room for the kids indoors as I live in a duplex, I have 10 fish kids some of whom were gifts some adopted, right now we have 3 shubunkin spelling?? in a 50 gallon aquarium indoors, our goal is expansion in the spring,, Anna From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on Will you be overwintering them in the pond or in an inside tank? In either case, when the water temperatures get down into the high 50's F, you want to slow down the feeding and change their diet. When they get down to the low 50's and stay in the low 50's or lower, you will stop feeding them completely. You should test your water first thing in the morning, when it will be coldest, and then at right before nightime when it will likely have heated up the most and let us know what those temps are. Test the water around mid-depth and at the deepest section. Here's a water temperature related feeding article - http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=55&It emid =58> &task=view&id=55&Itemid=58 More Feeding info - http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57&It emid =58> &task=view&id=57&Itemid=58 If the links break, just go to http://www.texaskoi.com and use their Keyword Search for feeding or winter to find the articles. I have a couple of blog articles about my ponds and have links to several overwintering articles in those blog articles where you can read much more detailed information. Actually, here is the main link to the series of pond articles. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/index.html You want to read several of the articles in the second section called "The Seasons" and you will see several of those articles have "overwintering" in their titles so read them first. I'm down in N'Awlins (New Orleans) so I don't have the issues you will have with overwintering but there are many members out here that do live in the North Pole climates LOL so I'm sure they'll chime in with more info after you answer the above questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mattsmom Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on In The Morning, Cloudeight Stationery, Pastel Notes Stationery Collection I need advice please , I have posted before same ask but never saw a email,, I live in Oregon E Gresham On the gorge line,, I need to know when to winter my babies, the temps are dipping now into the low 40,s and 30,s. with day temps in the 50,s when do I stop feeding them and when to I put the pumps and filters to bed?? I,m a first time mom and a worry wart,, I have happy healthy Koi and goldfish Ph levels are within norm, we are getting in to our rain season and had first frost last night Anna ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1717 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 4:56 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31166	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

If they are indeed apple snails, they will put cluster of eggs near the top where no water touches them, or should they not be able to find a dry place they will lay them in the water. They can be moved as soon as you see them. They love dandelion greens or most any greens from outdoors. You can feed them romaine, bib lettuce. If you have aquatic plants they could strip them. They really like Greens but do a good job at keeping the tank clean. I raise them and sell to the pet shop or make a trade. Hope this helps. --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: > From: Alina <alambiet@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 9:38 PM > Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy > pizza, > there was one snail in my tank. When I came home, > there's one plus four > other little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a > pinhead smaller > than the tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary > (who, given > these circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but > he's the only > snail I have in the tank and he's (she) only been home > a few weeks > > So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: > Pond snails > aren't hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which > after looking > at pictures have never been in my tank) and now I have no > idea where > these came from and if Gary secretly hatched or if these > four tiny > things hitched a ride on live plants...I only have two live > plants and > I didn't notice a thing on them when I bought.. > > Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the > web.... > > And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will > they wreak > havoc on my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And > when can I > safely move them to another tank? > > So many questions, so many snails.... > > Thanks > > Alina > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31167	From: mattsmom	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on

Okay my pond is 5 and a half deep, sit,s above ground, it was custom built for me I have Ms and RA it is 4 feet wide by 9 ft long with a 10 inch ledge so I can sit and watch my fish and for my plants, I can easily slide from my wheelchair or walker to the ledgit has a custom built bio filter and two pumps,a waterfall was made and it flows into a smaller pond and the water is recycled back into the koi pond , a screen was added to the waterfall so the guys can,t take a walkabout the lower pond is for frog breeding , in other words it was built so I can maintain it myself with little effort I am very independent,, sometimes we do get ice storms not often, and we do get freeze temps I have two large bubblers which I will keep on during the winter, I have purchased 2 warming things for the pond in case we do get a big freeze,, it is raccoon proof too,, I will switch the food pellets, and tommorrow will go and pick up a good temp gauge, My guys have no problems getting extra protein, plenty of slugs bugs and other insects,, I am so excited about expanding, as of right now we have done nothing with the yard as I wanted to wait for the new fence to be put in as we will have an added 15 feet of yard, Anna in Oregon] who is a transplanted Canutt From: Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on If you are wintering over in the pond, the pond needs to be deeper than the frost line in your area. Do you know how deep that is? If it is not, you are taking a chance that the water could freeze solid (yep, just another thing to worry about). I do not know your area at all, coming from the East Coast, but if you are already getting frost, I'd suspect you are looking at a pond depth of at least 4 feet to successfully overwinter your fish in situ. It may be better, if you have a garage, to build a temporary pond of PVC, 2x6's and 2x4's and move the fish into that. Steve Meyer was a koi keeper--he wrote extensively on the subject in Aquarium Fish Magazine in the 70's and 80's (and a lot of what Lenny says about fish size and amounts of water needed are based on his work), built several of these in his basement in Sudbury, MA each year. (I was cautious going over there in the fall, in case he was unable to conscript enough grad students to do the work for him <g>.) Use water from the pond to help fill up your indoor pond, and canister filters to filter the water. By using pond water, you can move your fish right in. If you need to keep them outdoors, you need to maintain a hole in the ice. There are several ways to do this. The most reliable is to get a floating pond heater, to maintain a temperature just above freezing. Another way is to run an air pump to agitate the surface. The problem with this is that your water will have gradients of temperature, and an air stream strong enough to keep a hole open in the ice will have a tendency to mix the water too much to maintain any kind of gradient. Judging from what you mention about air temperature now, you may be past the point of feeding your fish. Koi should not be fed once the water temperature reaches 55^oF. Your fish should be good and fat right now so they can go through a stage of at least semi-hibernation during the winter. When you start to get skim ice in the morning, it will be time to do a final water change in your pond. This will help to reduce nitrates at the start of the winter, and remove DOC's that may prove harmful in large enough quantities over the winter. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mattsmom Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on Bless you Lenny what a gold mine of wonderful info,,, they will winter outdoors have no room for the kids indoors as I live in a duplex, I have 10 fish kids some of whom were gifts some adopted, right now we have 3 shubunkin spelling?? in a 50 gallon aquarium indoors, our goal is expansion in the spring,, Anna From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on Will you be overwintering them in the pond or in an inside tank? In either case, when the water temperatures get down into the high 50's F, you want to slow down the feeding and change their diet. When they get down to the low 50's and stay in the low 50's or lower, you will stop feeding them completely. You should test your water first thing in the morning, when it will be coldest, and then at right before nightime when it will likely have heated up the most and let us know what those temps are. Test the water around mid-depth and at the deepest section. Here's a water temperature related feeding article - http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=55&It emid =58> &task=view&id=55&Itemid=58 More Feeding info - http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57&It emid =58> &task=view&id=57&Itemid=58 If the links break, just go to http://www.texaskoi.com and use their Keyword Search for feeding or winter to find the articles. I have a couple of blog articles about my ponds and have links to several overwintering articles in those blog articles where you can read much more detailed information. Actually, here is the main link to the series of pond articles. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/index.html You want to read several of the articles in the second section called "The Seasons" and you will see several of those articles have "overwintering" in their titles so read them first. I'm down in N'Awlins (New Orleans) so I don't have the issues you will have with overwintering but there are many members out here that do live in the North Pole climates LOL so I'm sure they'll chime in with more info after you answer the above questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mattsmom Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on In The Morning, Cloudeight Stationery, Pastel Notes Stationery Collection I need advice please , I have posted before same ask but never saw a email,, I live in Oregon E Gresham On the gorge line,, I need to know when to winter my babies, the temps are dipping now into the low 40,s and 30,s. with day temps in the 50,s when do I stop feeding them and when to I put the pumps and filters to bed?? I,m a first time mom and a worry wart,, I have happy healthy Koi and goldfish Ph levels are within norm, we are getting in to our rain season and had first frost last night Anna ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1717 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 4:56 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31168	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?

Continue to add ammonia until your nitrites are 0 also. As for your nitrates, that is high for a marine tank, particularly if you are going to be keeping corals, from my understanding (I am not a marine person). What is the nitrate in your tap water? Do you treat your water in any way prior to adding it to thank (i.e. use an RO filter)? If so, what is the nitrate level after treatment? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cycling complete? ok, I've cycled for over a month (trickle filter, saltwater, fishless added amonia to 5 ppm) and now my amonia is 0. My nitrite is toward the top of chart at 1.5 ppm which leads me to think that the secondary bacteria isn't complete but my nitrate are also high on chart at 40-50 ppm. This is right after a 40% PWC. Should I add a little ammonia every day so the bacteria still has a food source? How long does it take for the bacteria to die? I'm thinking I need more time until the nitrites come down more. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31169	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: vacuuming sand?

Reduce the flow, and you will reduce the amount of sand that will move up too far and become waste. You can also forgo the vacuuming of the sane and just stir it up to let the filter take care of what ends up in suspension. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuuming sand? I would always gravel vacuum with a syphon and remove some nasty stuff. Now I have a new tank and went with sand with bacteria to speed up cycle. I haven't added fish yet, but how can you vacuum sand when it is so fine it will come right up? Should I just suck it up and replace with gravel slowly?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31170	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

Well, you're using terms that are confusing. A typical pond snail is not an apple snail. Below is a site with lots of pics/images of different snail types. Lets figure out what you have. Apple snails and Mystery snails (and some others) will not reproduce in the manner which you are describing. They will lay a large egg cluster on the glass or filter tube or even a plant stalk right above the water line. What you are describing sounds more like typical pond/nuisance snails. http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php Your new snails likely came from the plants. As long as you don't have a lot of detritus in the gravel the new snails will not become a major issue. If they do become an issue, you can set up a snail trap and start removing them. It's difficult to sex Apple snails (or most others) so Gary very well could be a Mary but with only one of them, you'll likely not see any breeding him/her... although there have been instances where a female apple/mystery snail could lay fertile clutches of eggs long after she's been separated from a male. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, there was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four other little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller than the tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only snail I have in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails aren't hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at pictures have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came from and if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride on live plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on them when I bought.. Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak havoc on my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely move them to another tank? So many questions, so many snails.... Thanks Alina ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 9:51:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 10:58:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31171	From: Suzy Snowflake	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE

I got the 40 back up and running. I had to change the filter but I put some of my extra sponges from my other tanks in to keep the bacteria going. I just put the wheel back in. The goldies are happy to be back in there tank but I do NOT want to keep them. I want plants and nice little calm fish. Sorry but I am not a goldfish lover. I think I will be rehoming the plecos also. They are not BNs. I think one is a sailfin that gets kind of big. The other is a light brown. Sorry I don't want these either. I think I will have to get a new hood though. This one is broken and I am afraid the light is going to fall in the tank. Ok, enough stress for today. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?

Yes, you need to keep feeding the ammonia eating bacteria or they will start to die off. That will mean less nitrite so the nitrite eating bacteria will start to die or not grow a full colony also. Is this going to be a saltwater/marine tank or a freshwater tank? You mention saltwater and I'm not sure you need to cycle a SW tank to 5ppm of ammonia since you will not have as big of a bioload in a SW tank compared to FW tanks. Why did you do a 40% PWC? I know that sometimes, PWC's are needed if your KH levels get too low as that will stall the cycling but I just wanted to check and clarify for other readers. Your nitrites aren't peaking yet. They should get much higher than 1.5ppm at their peak but this will only happen if you keep dosing the ammonia daily or as needed whenever it gets back down to 0-1ppm. Do not overdose the ammonia over 4-5ppm or that could stall things badly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cycling complete? ok, I've cycled for over a month (trickle filter, saltwater, fishless added amonia to 5 ppm) and now my amonia is 0. My nitrite is toward the top of chart at 1.5 ppm which leads me to think that the secondary bacteria isn't complete but my nitrate are also high on chart at 40-50 ppm. This is right after a 40% PWC. Should I add a little ammonia every day so the bacteria still has a food source? How long does it take for the bacteria to die? I'm thinking I need more time until the nitrites come down more. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 10:42:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 11:10:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31173	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: vacuuming sand?

You can simply stir the sand with stick on a regular basis to keep any areas from getting compacted and then when vacuuming, just pass it over the surface... not shoving it down into the sand like when gravel vacuuming. What kind of fish are you planning? Some like sand, others don't. You can also get some MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails) which are good burrowers into sand and will keep it from getting compacted and help eat any detritus that might get buried in the sand. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuuming sand? I would always gravel vacuum with a syphon and remove some nasty stuff. Now I have a new tank and went with sand with bacteria to speed up cycle. I haven't added fish yet, but how can you vacuum sand when it is so fine it will come right up? Should I just suck it up and replace with gravel slowly? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 11:13:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31174	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE

You should check with your area LFS' to see if they will take the fish off your hands as trade-ins for store credit. They will usually give you at least 1/2 price for what they expect to re-sell them for. People that want to start off with big tanks usually like buying fish that are larger to start with so they don't have to wait the several years for juvi fish to grow out. You'll probably get enough store credit to buy all of your new fish and then some. The common pleco I rescued in the summer of 2005 grew from 4" (two years old stunted in a 10G tank) to 10"+ (at 3.5 years old) in my 65G but then I had to trade him in since I couldn't upgrade my tank size like I had planned due to the aftermaths of Katrina. I actually have downsized the number of tanks I have due to less space and time for them. But the LFS sold my guy the next day to someone with a 180G cichlid tank so hopefully he's giving them hell... and keeping the tank spotless from algae! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzy Snowflake Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE I got the 40 back up and running. I had to change the filter but I put some of my extra sponges from my other tanks in to keep the bacteria going. I just put the wheel back in. The goldies are happy to be back in there tank but I do NOT want to keep them. I want plants and nice little calm fish. Sorry but I am not a goldfish lover. I think I will be rehoming the plecos also. They are not BNs. I think one is a sailfin that gets kind of big. The other is a light brown. Sorry I don't want these either. I think I will have to get a new hood though. This one is broken and I am afraid the light is going to fall in the tank. Ok, enough stress for today. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 11:48:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Live plants

Hi again, Here are a couple of articles/websites that I point beginner plant keepers to so you can get some starting point ideas. http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm (third article is about setting up new planted tank) It's probably best to start off with easy-to-grow low-light plants such as these... http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2> &filter_by=2 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3> &filter_by=3 Once you have live plants in your tanks, you'll always want real plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Live plants I am just starting to really look into live plants for my aquarium. It's been running about two months. After you get into this, the fake stuff is just so...fake. And I noticed on silk/fake plant has some brown spots (only on the plant, nowhere else) and it's just making me think fake isn't so great. In any case, I have a snail and probably will get a second (love them!) and would like to provide a good mix of live plants that will be beneficial to a typical freshwater community tank. This is my first tank ever, so I am keeping it simple as I learn. The fish are pretty basic -- tetras, mollies, some guppies and platys. We bought two aquatic wysteria, I believe. And they seem OK. Want to avoid making mistakes matching plants that will live well with my fish. I have been repeatedly discouraged to buy live plants by one of the local pet shop guys who says they are really a maintenance hassle. I think if they provide natural filtration and a little treat for the residents, then why not? Can anyone here point me to the pitfalls...if any...and advice of types of aquatic plants to get. Any links, too. Remember, I'm a beginner. This is a 38 gal, and my water is generally hard, if that makes a differece to the plants. I'm doing my research, but would love your input. Thanks all Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 11:56:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31176	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Vinegar Eels

In Trader joes and whole foods you can buy unfilterd and I believe unpasturized apple cider vineager. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31177	From: Chris	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Re: Vinegar Eels

I think I'm gonna ferment my own apple cider vinegar and I'll have my own culture. If that will work, then it sounds better than mail orderring culture --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I picked up some cider vinegar to start a vinegar eel culture and > found out that in the US cider vinegar has to be filtered and > pasteurized to be sold on the market. Is wiki wrong? > > So how do I get around this problem? How can I find these critters in > nature? How do I create a culture? A link would be sufficient. > > Also, what are those complex multi-cellular micro organisms organisms > that are cultured for fish fry? Infusia? What ever it was, I was > reading that you can culture those off of lettuce. > > Also. Bloodworms are mosquito larvea right? > > I know you are thinking that I could research that on the net, but to > be honest, I want to ask you cuz you might add something the website > didn't mention. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31178	From: Jenn	Date: 10/9/2008
Subject: Kribensis

Anyone in the Pittsburgh PA/Washington PA area want a mated pair of Kribensis? jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31179	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: vacuuming sand?

Two suggestions. Make siphoning your substrate a two-handed process. Hover the siphon an inch over the surface at the same time you stir with your hand. You can also siphon into a bucket and dump what accidentally gets sucked up back in the tank when you are done. Saves your plumbing from sand cloggage, LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuuming sand? I would always gravel vacuum with a syphon and remove some nasty stuff. Now I have a new tank and went with sand with bacteria to speed up cycle. I haven't added fish yet, but how can you vacuum sand when it is so fine it will come right up? Should I just suck it up and replace with gravel slowly? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31180	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

I was going to reply to your other post regarding live plants....but you beat me to it with this one. I was going to tell you that you may end up with a lot of nuisance pond snails, I bought some plants from my LFS and placed them in my small neon tank.....now I have approx 50 or more tiny snails in there and I have already got rid of a dozen or more last week with a PWC. My neons tank is only 6gl so as you can imagine, the glass is covered in these tiny snails, but believe me, they grow quick. «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Alina To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:38 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, there was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four other little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller than the tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only snail I have in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails aren't hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at pictures have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came from and if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride on live plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on them when I bought.. Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak havoc on my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely move them to another tank? So many questions, so many snails.... Thanks Alina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31181	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?

Well nothing has happened with my molly as yet. She was doing this strange movement for a few hours then stopped, so I never bothered placing her in the breeding box. Today there is still no fry visible, but she has changed shape to a more square body (which I read is another sign that birth is close). Will keep you posted. «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: alison elizabeth meredith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Silver Molly about to give birth? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > I have the same issue with my female platties she givens birth with > out any strange behavior. what i learn is to have some java fern in > the tank. The babies will hide in there those making them have more of > a chance to survive to adulthood and not be eaten by the parents or > other tank mates. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Saps Gal" <sapsgal@> wrote: > > > > Hi All > > > > I have 3 silver mollies, 1 male and 2 female, about a month or so > ago, I saw the male chasing the females and since then, they are both > getting fatter, but one is really fat. > > Just this morning, the really fat one is doing a strange quiver > sorta thing, she is raising her head so her body is more or less > vertical, then doing a quick jiggle...lol > > > > Do you reckon she might be about to give birth, I can't see any fry > in the tank as yet. > > I have a birthing/breeding tank to float in the tank, but this only > stresses them if placed in too early, I dont this before with a guppy > and she aborted the pregnancy. > > > > Any suggestions please > > > > «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» > > «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» > > «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >yes she will give birth any day i would recomend you put her in the birthing tank other wise all the other fish will eat them > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

Yeah... if you don't like snails, you should clean/treat any new plant purchases. I personally do not mind them as they are part of the overall ecology of the tank and are good clean up critters and if they start getting out of hand, that is a reminder to you that you are doing something slightly wrong... either over feeding or under cleaning. http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/snails.htm http://www.applesnail.net/content/various/eradication.htm (good info except it does mention snail killing chemicals which should not be used in a tank that has fish also.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 4:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... I was going to reply to your other post regarding live plants....but you beat me to it with this one. I was going to tell you that you may end up with a lot of nuisance pond snails, I bought some plants from my LFS and placed them in my small neon tank.....now I have approx 50 or more tiny snails in there and I have already got rid of a dozen or more last week with a PWC. My neons tank is only 6gl so as you can imagine, the glass is covered in these tiny snails, but believe me, they grow quick. «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Alina To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:38 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, there was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four other little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller than the tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only snail I have in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails aren't hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at pictures have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came from and if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride on live plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on them when I bought.. Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak havoc on my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely move them to another tank? So many questions, so many snails.... Thanks Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 5:28:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31183	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?

Julie: Not long ago my molly had a "swarm" of babies - lol. Since I was moving, I left them alone, moved the tank with the fry swimming in the few inches of remaining water and refilled the tank. The tank was well planted, ALL of the fry survived the move and now are in their own tank growing out. So, I would not put the female in a breeding box, but rather let her have the fry in the tank since the survival rate seems so high and they will need room to grow. It truly was an amzing sight to see the amount of fry one fish can have. Barbara In a message dated 10/10/2008 6:08:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sapsgal@... writes: Well nothing has happened with my molly as yet. She was doing this strange movement for a few hours then stopped, so I never bothered placing her in the breeding box. Today there is still no fry visible, but she has changed shape to a more square body (which I read is another sign that birth is close). **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31184	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

I personally want to see the snail chasity belt!!! (wicked smile)   Chris in VA --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 6:28 AM Yeah... if you don't like snails, you should clean/treat any new plant purchases. I personally do not mind them as they are part of the overall ecology of the tank and are good clean up critters and if they start getting out of hand, that is a reminder to you that you are doing something slightly wrong... either over feeding or under cleaning. http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/snails. htm http://www.applesna il.net/content/ various/eradicat ion.htm (good info except it does mention snail killing chemicals which should not be used in a tank that has fish also.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 4:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... I was going to reply to your other post regarding live plants....but you beat me to it with this one. I was going to tell you that you may end up with a lot of nuisance pond snails, I bought some plants from my LFS and placed them in my small neon tank.....now I have approx 50 or more tiny snails in there and I have already got rid of a dozen or more last week with a PWC. My neons tank is only 6gl so as you can imagine, the glass is covered in these tiny snails, but believe me, they grow quick. «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~ *~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸ ).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Alina To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:38 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, there was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four other little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller than the tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only snail I have in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails aren't hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at pictures have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came from and if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride on live plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on them when I bought.. Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak havoc on my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely move them to another tank? So many questions, so many snails.... Thanks Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 5:28:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31185	From: Alina	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

You're right on all points. Gary is definitely an apple snail. These things are snails too. But given what I've read on the pondsnail site, these guys are interlopers. There have been no egg clutches in my tank, on the cover or anywhere near the water line or on the plants and decortations. So far, I have found five of these tiny things that I guess must be nuisance snails. So now my questions are the following: Nuisance snails -- bad or good? I have five, that I can see. I don't want them to destroy my two live plants, and since I want to add new plant, should I get rid of them? Should I expect more to show up in my tank now? Someone mentioned they've "controlled" them through PWC. Does that mean you're throwing them out with your dirty water? If I decide to remove them now, what is the most appropriate and humane way to do it? I'm really not into flushing little creatures...just want to do the right thing by them and the environment. We're in Florida, and believe me, things here multiply out of control. Next time I buy live plants is there a method to clean them off or check for any of these or other traveling buddies? Thank you all for your input. I'm learning so much. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, you're using terms that are confusing. A typical pond snail is not an > apple snail. Below is a site with lots of pics/images of different snail > types. Lets figure out what you have. Apple snails and Mystery snails (and > some others) will not reproduce in the manner which you are describing. > They will lay a large egg cluster on the glass or filter tube or even a > plant stalk right above the water line. What you are describing sounds more > like typical pond/nuisance snails. > http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php > > Your new snails likely came from the plants. As long as you don't have a > lot of detritus in the gravel the new snails will not become a major issue. > If they do become an issue, you can set up a snail trap and start removing > them. > > It's difficult to sex Apple snails (or most others) so Gary very well could > be a Mary but with only one of them, you'll likely not see any breeding > him/her... although there have been instances where a female apple/mystery > snail could lay fertile clutches of eggs long after she's been separated > from a male. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > > > Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, there > was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four other > little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller than the > tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these > circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only snail I have > in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks > > So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails aren't > hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at pictures > have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came from and > if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride on live > plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on them > when I bought.. > > Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... > > And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak havoc on > my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely move them > to another tank? > > So many questions, so many snails.... > > Thanks > > Alina > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 > Tested on: 10/9/2008 9:51:06 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 > Tested on: 10/9/2008 10:58:32 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31186	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

My angel fish have always considered them a delicacy and I never had any probs with nuisance snails to the point that when my angels would get overly aggressive I would go to the local pet store and ask for them!  The pet stores were usually thrilled to get rid of them and my angels would fill themselves on fresh snail and quit being so nippy towards everyone else.   Have any or know any hungry aggressive fish that might enjoy them?   Chris in VA --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: From: Alina <alambiet@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 8:02 AM You're right on all points. Gary is definitely an apple snail. These things are snails too. But given what I've read on the pondsnail site, these guys are interlopers. There have been no egg clutches in my tank, on the cover or anywhere near the water line or on the plants and decortations. So far, I have found five of these tiny things that I guess must be nuisance snails. So now my questions are the following: Nuisance snails -- bad or good? I have five, that I can see. I don't want them to destroy my two live plants, and since I want to add new plant, should I get rid of them? Should I expect more to show up in my tank now? Someone mentioned they've "controlled" them through PWC. Does that mean you're throwing them out with your dirty water? If I decide to remove them now, what is the most appropriate and humane way to do it? I'm really not into flushing little creatures... just want to do the right thing by them and the environment. We're in Florida, and believe me, things here multiply out of control. Next time I buy live plants is there a method to clean them off or check for any of these or other traveling buddies? Thank you all for your input. I'm learning so much. Alina --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Well, you're using terms that are confusing. A typical pond snail is not an > apple snail. Below is a site with lots of pics/images of different snail > types. Lets figure out what you have. Apple snails and Mystery snails (and > some others) will not reproduce in the manner which you are describing. > They will lay a large egg cluster on the glass or filter tube or even a > plant stalk right above the water line. What you are describing sounds more > like typical pond/nuisance snails. > http://www.applesna il.net/content/ snails_various. php > > Your new snails likely came from the plants. As long as you don't have a > lot of detritus in the gravel the new snails will not become a major issue. > If they do become an issue, you can set up a snail trap and start removing > them. > > It's difficult to sex Apple snails (or most others) so Gary very well could > be a Mary but with only one of them, you'll likely not see any breeding > him/her... although there have been instances where a female apple/mystery > snail could lay fertile clutches of eggs long after she's been separated > from a male. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > > > Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, there > was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four other > little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller than the > tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these > circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only snail I have > in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks > > So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails aren't > hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at pictures > have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came from and > if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride on live > plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on them > when I bought.. > > Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... > > And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak havoc on > my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely move them > to another tank? > > So many questions, so many snails.... > > Thanks > > Alina > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 > Tested on: 10/9/2008 9:51:06 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 > Tested on: 10/9/2008 10:58:32 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31187	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

On my previous post, I listed two websites that give full details on how to use preventative measures on any new plants to try and stop them in the first place. I'm pretty sure those sites cover the basic trapping methods once you have snails in a tank. Even for folks without a pet snail, do not use chemicals for snail problems. There are safer methods. If you see five, you likely have many more. You may never get rid of all of them but using the traps on a regular basis will help keep them in control. If your tank is large enough, you could go with a shoal of small loaches (many of which eat snails as part of their diet). If your tank isn't big enough, you could make a deal with your LFS to buy three small loaches with plans to return them for store credit after a few months. If or should I say when you develop MTS (multi tank syndrome... grin), you can keep a shoal of loaches in one of your bigger tanks and then move them into your other tanks as needed. Do not get clown loaches although they are very common. They get much too big for even big tanks and a shoal of five of them would need at least a 100G tank for themselves. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five... You're right on all points. Gary is definitely an apple snail. These things are snails too. But given what I've read on the pondsnail site, these guys are interlopers. There have been no egg clutches in my tank, on the cover or anywhere near the water line or on the plants and decortations. So far, I have found five of these tiny things that I guess must be nuisance snails. So now my questions are the following: Nuisance snails -- bad or good? I have five, that I can see. I don't want them to destroy my two live plants, and since I want to add new plant, should I get rid of them? Should I expect more to show up in my tank now? Someone mentioned they've "controlled" them through PWC. Does that mean you're throwing them out with your dirty water? If I decide to remove them now, what is the most appropriate and humane way to do it? I'm really not into flushing little creatures...just want to do the right thing by them and the environment. We're in Florida, and believe me, things here multiply out of control. Next time I buy live plants is there a method to clean them off or check for any of these or other traveling buddies? Thank you all for your input. I'm learning so much. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, you're using terms that are confusing. A typical pond snail is not an > apple snail. Below is a site with lots of pics/images of different snail > types. Lets figure out what you have. Apple snails and Mystery snails (and > some others) will not reproduce in the manner which you are describing. > They will lay a large egg cluster on the glass or filter tube or even > a plant stalk right above the water line. What you are describing sounds more > like typical pond/nuisance snails. > http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php > <http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php> > > Your new snails likely came from the plants. As long as you don't have a > lot of detritus in the gravel the new snails will not become a major issue. > If they do become an issue, you can set up a snail trap and start removing > them. > > It's difficult to sex Apple snails (or most others) so Gary very well could > be a Mary but with only one of them, you'll likely not see any > breeding him/her... although there have been instances where a female apple/mystery > snail could lay fertile clutches of eggs long after she's been > separated from a male. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > > > Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, there > was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four > other little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller > than the > tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these > circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only snail I have > in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks > > So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails aren't > hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at pictures > have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came from and > if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride on live > plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on > them when I bought.. > > Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... > > And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak havoc on > my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely move them > to another tank? > > So many questions, so many snails.... > > Thanks > > Alina > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 > 9:51:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 > 10:58:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 7:24:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 7:39:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31188	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: What is happening with my fish?!

Okay, So I wake up this morning to find one of my two mollies dead. There has been nothing wrong in this tank, not ich or anything else. Here are my water stats: NO3 10 NO2 0 GH 300 CH 0 KH 300 PH 8.4 Ammonia 0 I cannot find the other mollie right now I'm hoping she is still alive. I could not find any visable signs as to why it died. What is happening to all my fish? I've never had this much trouble keeping them alive before!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31189	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: help winter coming on

Hi Anna, Your pond measurements indicate a capacity of 1485 gallons if the actual depth of the water is 5 1/2' deep; a nice size pond, but not that large that it can't be severely impacted by bad Winter weather. Expanding it in the Spring, as seems to be your plan, would only increase your enjoyment if it (Most pondkeepers originally underestimate the size of pond they really want). I wish you well in that endeavor when the time comes. You haven't said where in Oregon you live, but as you probably are well aware, Oregon can have widely different temperatures at any time of year depending on the area. As for its weather, its been said that its "a state of extremes." February seems to be about the worst month with cities in the western portion falling below freezing for extended periods (average around Portland in that month being 27 o, Medford being 20 o, but these temps can dip into the teens. If you're on the eastern side of the Cascades, Winter temperatures in February average from near 0 o in the Columbian Basin to -28 o in the mountain plateaus, although they tend to stay between -0 o and -10 o, quite a bit colder than the coastal part of the state. With your pond being entirely above ground, it has no insulating protection from the ground which it would otherwise have from the frost-line on down. As a result of this, you can expect much deeper ice coverings (possibly even freezing solid if you're east of the Mountains). I'd recommend placing a heavy layer of straw or hay against the perimeter of the pond extending up the outer walls at least half-way, in efforts to insulate it better, if you still intend to winter your fish over here. I'd recommend bringing them indoors, as \\Steve// suggests, only as the bottom portion of the pond will be exposed to those temperatures of the frozen soil surface, not allowing for much (needed) variation of strata temperatures. Your two pond heaters may not be enough to keep a gas-exchange hole from freezing up entirely in extreme cold spells. Even if you're on the western side of the mountains, the total exposure of this pond being above ground will cause more extreme freezing, not to mention the possible lack (or at least a vast reduction) of temperature strata which the fish rely on during their hibernation. They seek the depths as normally, the bottom layer of pond water is usually a couple of degrees warmer than near the surface. While your two large bubblers will help keep the pond from freezing (as will a jet from a slightly submerged small fountain), they will also tend to continually turn over the pond water, not allowing for stratification of temperatures of the water; I would not recommend their use, except very limitedly if at all, and then only strong enough to necessarily keep an open hole. It is most important to not allow a mixture of varying depths of water in efforts to allow a bottom layer of water to reach as much above 32 o as it will otherwise get (possibly up to 34 o); this will ensure your fish's well-being and enable them to get through the Winter with less stress. At 32 o, when water freezes at sea level, it will not do so immediately upon reaching that temperature, until a yet certain amount of heat calories are reduced still at that temperature. You do not want the water in which the fish are habitating to approach anywhere near even the high portion of those calories. It won't "freeze" them, but is detrimental to their health. As for feeding, they don't need protein in their diet this time of year going into the colder months (its detrimental as its harder to digest). Its good to see though, that they do get their varied sources of protein during the growing season, as you've pointed out. Its already been mentioned that you should change the fish's diet and to stop feeding at 55 o. I noticed you intend to switch food pellets, but I don't see what you intend to switch to, nor do I see a recommendation what to switch to. As the water cools, the food should be switched to a wheat-germ based pellet (of the same size as their Summer food). This type of food is much more easily digested in cold temperatures. When switching foods, the same size should always be used as the fish will not recognize a much different size as being food. Ideally, when switching foods, if any fishes' (pond fish or aquarium fish) size increase warrants a larger size food the new food should be mixed in with the old food until they get to recognize the new offerings as food, but in your case you do not want to continue using a protein based food at this time. Keeping with the same sized food as used previously will continue their recognition of this size pellet as being food. With wheat-germ based pellets being fed, as they now should be, you may continue feeding your fish (to ensure their continued body weight for the long Winter ahead, even though their metabolism will be greatly slowed) until the water temperature gets down to 45 o, albeit in decreasing amounts and at decreased intervals. As the water temperature dips to near 50 o, you should feed the fish only once every other day. As the water temperature gets down to 45 o, you should not feed the fish any more than once every three days. As the water temperature gets down below that, feeding should be discontinued entirely, until the temperatures climb above 45 o in the Spring -- and then, continue using only wheat-germ based food until the temperature gets higher. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mattsmom" <herfatherseyes@...> wrote: > > Okay my pond is 5 and a half deep, sit,s above ground, it was custom built for me I have Ms and RA it is 4 feet wide by 9 ft long with a 10 inch ledge so I can sit and watch my fish and for my plants, I can easily slide from my wheelchair or walker to the ledgit has a custom built bio filter and two pumps,a waterfall was made and it flows into a smaller pond and the water is recycled back into the koi pond , a screen was added to the waterfall so the guys can,t take a walkabout the lower pond is for frog breeding , > > in other words it was built so I can maintain it myself with little effort I am very independent,, sometimes we do get ice storms not often, and we do get freeze temps I have two large bubblers which I will keep on during the winter, > > I have purchased 2 warming things for the pond in case we do get a big freeze,, > it is raccoon proof too,, > I will switch the food pellets, and tommorrow will go and pick up a good temp gauge, > My guys have no problems getting extra protein, plenty of slugs bugs and other insects,, > I am so excited about expanding, as of right now we have done nothing with the yard as I wanted to wait for the new fence to be put in as we will have an added 15 feet of yard, > > Anna in Oregon] who is a transplanted Canutt > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on > > > If you are wintering over in the pond, the pond needs to be deeper than > the frost line in your area. Do you know how deep that is? If it is not, > you are taking a chance that the water could freeze solid (yep, just > another thing to worry about). I do not know your area at all, coming > from the East Coast, but if you are already getting frost, I'd suspect > you are looking at a pond depth of at least 4 feet to successfully > overwinter your fish in situ. It may be better, if you have a garage, to > build a temporary pond of PVC, 2x6's and 2x4's and move the fish into > that. Steve Meyer was a koi keeper--he wrote extensively on the subject > in Aquarium Fish Magazine in the 70's and 80's (and a lot of what Lenny > says about fish size and amounts of water needed are based on his work), > built several of these in his basement in Sudbury, MA each year. (I was > cautious going over there in the fall, in case he was unable to > conscript enough grad students to do the work for him <g>.) Use water > from the pond to help fill up your indoor pond, and canister filters to > filter the water. By using pond water, you can move your fish right in. > > If you need to keep them outdoors, you need to maintain a hole in the > ice. There are several ways to do this. The most reliable is to get a > floating pond heater, to maintain a temperature just above freezing. > Another way is to run an air pump to agitate the surface. The problem > with this is that your water will have gradients of temperature, and an > air stream strong enough to keep a hole open in the ice will have a > tendency to mix the water too much to maintain any kind of gradient. > > Judging from what you mention about air temperature now, you may be past > the point of feeding your fish. Koi should not be fed once the water > temperature reaches 55^oF. Your fish should be good and fat right now so > they can go through a stage of at least semi-hibernation during the > winter. > > When you start to get skim ice in the morning, it will be time to do a > final water change in your pond. This will help to reduce nitrates at > the start of the winter, and remove DOC's that may prove harmful in > large enough quantities over the winter. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of mattsmom > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on > > Bless you Lenny > what a gold mine of wonderful info,,, > they will winter outdoors have no room for the kids indoors as I > live in a duplex, I have 10 fish kids some of whom were gifts some > adopted, right now we have 3 shubunkin spelling?? in a 50 gallon > aquarium indoors, > our goal is expansion in the spring,, > Anna > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on > > Will you be overwintering them in the pond or in an inside tank? > > In either case, when the water temperatures get down into the high > 50's F, > you want to slow down the feeding and change their diet. When they get > down > to the low 50's and stay in the low 50's or lower, you will stop > feeding > them completely. You should test your water first thing in the > morning, > when it will be coldest, and then at right before nightime when it > will > likely have heated up the most and let us know what those temps are. > Test > the water around mid-depth and at the deepest section. > > Here's a water temperature related feeding article - > http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content > > <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php? option=com_content&task=view&id=55&It > emid > =58> &task=view&id=55&Itemid=58 > More Feeding info - > http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php?option=com_content > > <http://www.texaskoi.com/index.php? option=com_content&task=view&id=57&It > emid > =58> &task=view&id=57&Itemid=58 > If the links break, just go to http://www.texaskoi.com and use their > Keyword > Search for feeding or winter to find the articles. > > I have a couple of blog articles about my ponds and have links to > several > overwintering articles in those blog articles where you can read much > more > detailed information. Actually, here is the main link to the series of > pond > articles. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/index.html You > want to > read several of the articles in the second section called "The > Seasons" and > you will see several of those articles have "overwintering" in their > titles > so read them first. > > I'm down in N'Awlins (New Orleans) so I don't have the issues you will > have > with overwintering but there are many members out here that do live in > the > North Pole climates LOL so I'm sure they'll chime in with more info > after > you answer the above questions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of mattsmom > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] help winter coming on > > In The Morning, Cloudeight Stationery, Pastel Notes Stationery > Collection > > I need advice please , I have posted before same ask but never saw a > email,, > > I live in Oregon E Gresham On the gorge line,, I need to know when to > winter > my babies, > > the temps are dipping now into the low 40,s and 30,s. with day temps > in the > 50,s > > when do I stop feeding them and when to I put the pumps and filters to > bed?? > > I,m a first time mom and a worry wart,, I have happy healthy Koi and > goldfish Ph levels are within norm, > > we are getting in to our rain season and had first frost last night > > Anna > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1717 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 4:56 PM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31190	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!

OK. Your water parameters look OK. Is your temp OK too? Are these numbers consistent with your normal water parameters? What size tank do you have and what other fish? Is your tank heavily planted... or why are you having trouble finding your other molly? Any possible predatory fish in your tank? How long has the tank been set up? Any new fish added recently? What medicines or additives (chemicals, etc.) are you adding? Just to clarify a couple of things on your test results. Is the CH a chlorine test? Are your test results from dip sticks? If so, which brand? Is your water always so hard or are you adding anything to the tank? It's not necessarily a bad thing, I was just checking. Last but not least... how old were the mollies? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! Okay, So I wake up this morning to find one of my two mollies dead. There has been nothing wrong in this tank, not ich or anything else. Here are my water stats: NO3 10 NO2 0 GH 300 CH 0 KH 300 PH 8.4 Ammonia 0 I cannot find the other mollie right now I'm hoping she is still alive. I could not find any visable signs as to why it died. What is happening to all my fish? I've never had this much trouble keeping them alive before! _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 8:25:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31191	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: hello.....

hello everyone and thnx for letting me join the group. i already have a quistion that i hope can be answered.... i just started a new tank and its been about three days since i set it up. my problem's are this i have been measuring the ph level and every time it says 8 i have tried a couple of things to remedy the situation, like i treated the water with aqua safe, and when that didnt help i put in a chemical to lower ph, that didnt work, and my water started getting really foggy....then i put in some more aqua safe hoping it would help...it didnt. then i tried a little salt and some baking soda, and that didnt help(i heard about the baking soda online) am i going crazy????? my tank is still foggy and now it smells wierd..i dont know what to do if i should do anything. am i jumping the gun here??? i havent gotten any life yet thank goodness, i am hoping to be able to handle the tank first....thnx to anyone who can help me>>>>>>kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31192	From: Alina	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

I didn't know whether to scold Gary or congratulate him! Here is what I may have....the photographs most closely resemble the tiny hatchlings from a picture I found on another snail website... Small ramshorn snail (Planorbis or Helisoma sp.) Method of introduction: accidental, with gravel or plants. Nuisance potential: High. Particularly if overfeeding. Eats some plant material, suspected egg eaters. Usefulness: eats excess food Control: Botias I have this small species (max. adult size < 5 mm) of ramshorn snails in a number of my tanks. I am yet to identify the species, and do not know how they arrived. Presumably as contaminants on plants or gravel. The species is active during the day and can be seen grazing on algal lawns on glass. I also suspect this species of being a egg-eater, as it has slowed the rates of reproduction in tanks with co-habiting lamprologine cichlids. The species is an egg layer and lays a group of eggs in a patch covered by a gelatinous substance. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@...> wrote: > > I personally want to see the snail chasity belt!!! (wicked smile) > > Chris in VA > > --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 6:28 AM > > > > > > > Yeah... if you don't like snails, you should clean/treat any new plant > purchases. I personally do not mind them as they are part of the overall > ecology of the tank and are good clean up critters and if they start getting > out of hand, that is a reminder to you that you are doing something slightly > wrong... either over feeding or under cleaning. > > http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/snails. htm > http://www.applesna il.net/content/ various/eradicat ion.htm (good info except > it does mention snail killing chemicals which should not be used in a tank > that has fish also.) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Saps Gal > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 4:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > > I was going to reply to your other post regarding live plants....but you > beat me to it with this one. > > I was going to tell you that you may end up with a lot of nuisance pond > snails, I bought some plants from my LFS and placed them in my small neon > tank.....now I have approx 50 or more tiny snails in there and I have > already got rid of a dozen or more last week with a PWC. > My neons tank is only 6gl so as you can imagine, the glass is covered in > these tiny snails, but believe me, they grow quick. > > «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» > «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~ *~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» > «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸ ).·´*`·» > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alina > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:38 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > > Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, there > was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four other > little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller than the > tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these > circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only snail I have > in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks > > So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails aren't > hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at pictures > have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came from and > if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride on live > plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on them > when I bought.. > > Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... > > And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak havoc on > my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely move them > to another tank? > > So many questions, so many snails.... > > Thanks > > Alina > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 > Tested on: 10/10/2008 5:28:28 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31193	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....

Hi Kate, Why do you feel that your pH of 8.0 is a problem? It really shouldn't be for most aquarium fish, unless you're trying to breed Neons or Discus. Do not try to fight your pH. You will only get results such as what you are getting as your alkalinity (buffering capacity) is undoubtedly high and your carbonates are precipitating out as a result of you adding chemicals -- resulting in your cloudy ("foggy") water. Do not ever add chemicals indiscrimitively, and don't add them at all unless absolutely necessary (and you know the consequences of those actions). Fish don't need a barrage of chemicals, and don't have them in nature, usually resulting in them doing just fine. Good to see you have not added any life yet. Can I presume that you might know you need to "cycle" your tank at first anyway, before you think of adding fish? If not, may I direct you to the archives, as there is tons of info on both of these subjects with them being very frequently encountered subjects. If you have any futher question, please feel free to ask away here and we'll try to do our best to answer them directly. Pleasse know though, that a pH of 8.0 should nolt really be a problem though. If for instance -- if you were to succeed at lowering it, you would have a difficult time not stressing your fish each time you needed to do a partial water change with your pH 8.0 tap water (unless I'm assuming this part incorrectly), and you would also have a hard time trying to maintain a much lower pH when changing out water, exchanging it with your tap water as part of your weekly maintenance schedule. One thing we do need to know in all this is -- what is the pH of your tap water? If its the same, go with it as the pH to maintain in yor tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cherrystix81" <cherrystix81@...> wrote: > > hello everyone and thnx for letting me join the group. i already have a > quistion that i hope can be answered.... > i just started a new tank and its been about three days since i set it > up. my problem's are this i have been measuring the ph level and every > time it says 8 i have tried a couple of things to remedy the situation, > like i treated the water with aqua safe, and when that didnt help i put > in a chemical to lower ph, that didnt work, and my water started > getting really foggy....then i put in some more aqua safe hoping it > would help...it didnt. then i tried a little salt and some baking soda, > and that didnt help(i heard about the baking soda online) am i going > crazy????? my tank is still foggy and now it smells wierd..i dont know > what to do if i should do anything. am i jumping the gun here??? i > havent gotten any life yet thank goodness, i am hoping to be able to > handle the tank first....thnx to anyone who can help me>>>>>>kate >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31194	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....

There's nothing wrong with a pH of 8 for many of the common community fish and there are many fish that need a high pH like that. We need to go back to the beginning right now since you've added things to your tank that may or may not be adversely affecting it. First and foremost, you need to get out of the quick-fix chemical mindset (that so many of us get hooked into when first starting out). As you'll read in the coming days, weeks and months, 95% of the chemicals sold at pet stores are not needed 95% of the time... and only use them with extreme discretion when an experienced fish keeper has advised it (not one of the pet store employees). Were you planning on "Fishless Cycling" the tank using plain ammonia (which is recommended)? Right now, I would suggest you empty your tank and start over and do a fishless cycle on the tank. This will take a couple of weeks and in the interim, you could start researching what kind of fish will do well (and that you like) with the water parameters you have. It's a lot better to keep fish that like your water than trying to change your water chemistry to suit the fish... especially since you'll be doing weekly PWC's (partial water changes) which means you'll constantly be trying to alter your water chemistry (not a good thing). One of the first things I would recommend while you are doing your fishless cycle, is to take one or both of the free online fish keeping tutorials that I have referenced on my blog page "A to Z of Fish Keeping". These tutorials will walk you through all of the basics. Come back here and ask any questions you may have. You'll also see a link to "Fishless Cycling" near the top of that page, so you will have detailed instructions for starting that. Next, we want to establish your tap/source water baseline chemistry. I have a detailed blog article, "Establishing your tap water baseline". Give us your test results so we can see what your tap water is going to really be like in your tank without all of the stuff you've already put in your tank. Once we and you know your baseline, then we can start working on which fish would be best. The only chemicals you really need to start off with is a simple dechlor product. Aqua-Safe is OK but there are less expensive (and better) alternatives that you can choose from when the time comes to buy a new bottle of dechlor. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cherrystix81 Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 8:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hello..... hello everyone and thnx for letting me join the group. i already have a quistion that i hope can be answered.... i just started a new tank and its been about three days since i set it up. my problem's are this i have been measuring the ph level and every time it says 8 i have tried a couple of things to remedy the situation, like i treated the water with aqua safe, and when that didnt help i put in a chemical to lower ph, that didnt work, and my water started getting really foggy....then i put in some more aqua safe hoping it would help...it didnt. then i tried a little salt and some baking soda, and that didnt help(i heard about the baking soda online) am i going crazy????? my tank is still foggy and now it smells wierd..i dont know what to do if i should do anything. am i jumping the gun here??? i havent gotten any life yet thank goodness, i am hoping to be able to handle the tank first....thnx to anyone who can help me>>>>>>kate _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 9:07:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31196	From: Margie Phelps	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Giving away my fish

Hi Lenny I want to thank you much for all the help with my Goldfish tank, but...... We have decided to quit the job and move on. From Texas to Ky and I am not going to try to take them with me. We have two dogs and a cat and it will take at least 2 to 2-1/2 days to get there. With a large Penske truck, his truck (and his 4 wheeler) and my Explorer, I think trying to bring fish too, would be to much stress on all of us. So they ARE going back to Pet's Mart, but not for resale. They will go in to a tank in the back and an employee there will take them to he's pond. I have no other choice. They have survived wonderfully with little tank maintenance and I feel they will do ok. I am going to unsub from the fish groups till I decide to try it again. But truly I do thank you for all your advice, the Texas tear drama and even the Gerard drama. A little humor in your life is a good thing. See you from Ky.......  Margie http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31197	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

Talk about MTS (multi tank syndrome) lol I started in april with a goldfish and a small 6 gallon tank. I now have 6 tanks in my house..... 40gl marine 25gl coldwater 20gl tropical 20gl Marine Quarantine 6gl tropical ready for fry 1 small tank housing 2 GALS (giant african land snails), so far they are only babies about 1.5cm shells but they are growing quick, so they will be needing a bigger tank soon. Anybody know what the record is for most tanks in a house....I know I am no where near a record but would be interesting to know :o) «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 1:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five... On my previous post, I listed two websites that give full details on how to use preventative measures on any new plants to try and stop them in the first place. I'm pretty sure those sites cover the basic trapping methods once you have snails in a tank. Even for folks without a pet snail, do not use chemicals for snail problems. There are safer methods. If you see five, you likely have many more. You may never get rid of all of them but using the traps on a regular basis will help keep them in control. If your tank is large enough, you could go with a shoal of small loaches (many of which eat snails as part of their diet). If your tank isn't big enough, you could make a deal with your LFS to buy three small loaches with plans to return them for store credit after a few months. If or should I say when you develop MTS (multi tank syndrome... grin), you can keep a shoal of loaches in one of your bigger tanks and then move them into your other tanks as needed. Do not get clown loaches although they are very common. They get much too big for even big tanks and a shoal of five of them would need at least a 100G tank for themselves. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five... You're right on all points. Gary is definitely an apple snail. These things are snails too. But given what I've read on the pondsnail site, these guys are interlopers. There have been no egg clutches in my tank, on the cover or anywhere near the water line or on the plants and decortations. So far, I have found five of these tiny things that I guess must be nuisance snails. So now my questions are the following: Nuisance snails -- bad or good? I have five, that I can see. I don't want them to destroy my two live plants, and since I want to add new plant, should I get rid of them? Should I expect more to show up in my tank now? Someone mentioned they've "controlled" them through PWC. Does that mean you're throwing them out with your dirty water? If I decide to remove them now, what is the most appropriate and humane way to do it? I'm really not into flushing little creatures...just want to do the right thing by them and the environment. We're in Florida, and believe me, things here multiply out of control. Next time I buy live plants is there a method to clean them off or check for any of these or other traveling buddies? Thank you all for your input. I'm learning so much. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, you're using terms that are confusing. A typical pond snail is not an > apple snail. Below is a site with lots of pics/images of different snail > types. Lets figure out what you have. Apple snails and Mystery snails (and > some others) will not reproduce in the manner which you are describing. > They will lay a large egg cluster on the glass or filter tube or even > a plant stalk right above the water line. What you are describing sounds more > like typical pond/nuisance snails. > http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php > <http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php> > > Your new snails likely came from the plants. As long as you don't have a > lot of detritus in the gravel the new snails will not become a major issue. > If they do become an issue, you can set up a snail trap and start removing > them. > > It's difficult to sex Apple snails (or most others) so Gary very well could > be a Mary but with only one of them, you'll likely not see any > breeding him/her... although there have been instances where a female apple/mystery > snail could lay fertile clutches of eggs long after she's been > separated from a male. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > > > Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, there > was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four > other little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller > than the > tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these > circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only snail I have > in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks > > So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails aren't > hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at pictures > have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came from and > if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride on live > plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on > them when I bought.. > > Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... > > And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak havoc on > my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely move them > to another tank? > > So many questions, so many snails.... > > Thanks > > Alina > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 > 9:51:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 > 10:58:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 7:24:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 7:39:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31198	From: Alina	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

Lenny Will the loaches hurt the pond snail that I do want to keep? And will they do well in 38 gal, with very easy going community fish? Thanks, and I'll check on the plant cleaning. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > On my previous post, I listed two websites that give full details on how to > use preventative measures on any new plants to try and stop them in the > first place. I'm pretty sure those sites cover the basic trapping methods > once you have snails in a tank. Even for folks without a pet snail, do not > use chemicals for snail problems. There are safer methods. > > If you see five, you likely have many more. You may never get rid of all of > them but using the traps on a regular basis will help keep them in control. > > If your tank is large enough, you could go with a shoal of small loaches > (many of which eat snails as part of their diet). If your tank isn't big > enough, you could make a deal with your LFS to buy three small loaches with > plans to return them for store credit after a few months. > > If or should I say when you develop MTS (multi tank syndrome... grin), you > can keep a shoal of loaches in one of your bigger tanks and then move them > into your other tanks as needed. > > Do not get clown loaches although they are very common. They get much too > big for even big tanks and a shoal of five of them would need at least a > 100G tank for themselves. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > > You're right on all points. Gary is definitely an apple snail. These things > are snails too. But given what I've read on the pondsnail site, these guys > are interlopers. There have been no egg clutches in my tank, on the cover or > anywhere near the water line or on the plants and decortations. So far, I > have found five of these tiny things that I guess must be nuisance snails. > > So now my questions are the following: > > Nuisance snails -- bad or good? I have five, that I can see. I don't want > them to destroy my two live plants, and since I want to add new plant, > should I get rid of them? > > Should I expect more to show up in my tank now? > > Someone mentioned they've "controlled" them through PWC. Does that mean > you're throwing them out with your dirty water? > > If I decide to remove them now, what is the most appropriate and humane way > to do it? I'm really not into flushing little creatures...just want to do > the right thing by them and the environment. We're in Florida, and believe > me, things here multiply out of control. > > Next time I buy live plants is there a method to clean them off or check for > any of these or other traveling buddies? > > Thank you all for your input. I'm learning so much. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Well, you're using terms that are confusing. A typical pond snail > is not an > > apple snail. Below is a site with lots of pics/images of different > snail > > types. Lets figure out what you have. Apple snails and Mystery > snails (and > > some others) will not reproduce in the manner which you are describing. > > They will lay a large egg cluster on the glass or filter tube or even > > a plant stalk right above the water line. What you are describing > sounds more > > like typical pond/nuisance snails. > > http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php > > <http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php> > > > > Your new snails likely came from the plants. As long as you don't > have a > > lot of detritus in the gravel the new snails will not become a major > issue. > > If they do become an issue, you can set up a snail trap and start > removing > > them. > > > > It's difficult to sex Apple snails (or most others) so Gary very > well could > > be a Mary but with only one of them, you'll likely not see any > > breeding him/her... although there have been instances where a female > apple/mystery > > snail could lay fertile clutches of eggs long after she's been > > separated from a male. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > > > > > > Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, > there > > was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four > > other little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller > > than the > > tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these > > circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only > snail I have > > in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks > > > > So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails > aren't > > hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at > pictures > > have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came > from and > > if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride > on live > > plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on > > them when I bought.. > > > > Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... > > > > And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak > havoc on > > my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely > move them > > to another tank? > > > > So many questions, so many snails.... > > > > Thanks > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 > > 9:51:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 > > 10:58:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 > Tested on: 10/10/2008 7:24:31 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 > Tested on: 10/10/2008 7:39:02 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31199	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five...

Yes, they will eventually go after the Apple snail (you keep calling it a pond snail so I forget you have an Apple snail). While Apple snails can certainly be kept in a pond during the warm months, they are not typically referred to as pond snails.... which is usually the generic term for nuisance snails. You would have to remove the Apple snail from the 38G if you are going to have loaches in there. Depending on how many other fish you will have, you may or may not have room for a shoal of even one of the smaller loach species so your best bet would be trapping the nuisance snails and pre-treating and quarantining future plants to try and eliminate the snails from going into your main tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five... Lenny Will the loaches hurt the pond snail that I do want to keep? And will they do well in 38 gal, with very easy going community fish? Thanks, and I'll check on the plant cleaning. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > On my previous post, I listed two websites that give full details on how to > use preventative measures on any new plants to try and stop them in > the first place. I'm pretty sure those sites cover the basic trapping methods > once you have snails in a tank. Even for folks without a pet snail, do not > use chemicals for snail problems. There are safer methods. > > If you see five, you likely have many more. You may never get rid of all of > them but using the traps on a regular basis will help keep them in control. > > If your tank is large enough, you could go with a shoal of small > loaches (many of which eat snails as part of their diet). If your tank isn't big > enough, you could make a deal with your LFS to buy three small loaches with > plans to return them for store credit after a few months. > > If or should I say when you develop MTS (multi tank syndrome... grin), you > can keep a shoal of loaches in one of your bigger tanks and then move them > into your other tanks as needed. > > Do not get clown loaches although they are very common. They get much too > big for even big tanks and a shoal of five of them would need at least > a 100G tank for themselves. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > > You're right on all points. Gary is definitely an apple snail. These things > are snails too. But given what I've read on the pondsnail site, these guys > are interlopers. There have been no egg clutches in my tank, on the cover or > anywhere near the water line or on the plants and decortations. So far, I > have found five of these tiny things that I guess must be nuisance snails. > > So now my questions are the following: > > Nuisance snails -- bad or good? I have five, that I can see. I don't want > them to destroy my two live plants, and since I want to add new plant, > should I get rid of them? > > Should I expect more to show up in my tank now? > > Someone mentioned they've "controlled" them through PWC. Does that > mean you're throwing them out with your dirty water? > > If I decide to remove them now, what is the most appropriate and humane way > to do it? I'm really not into flushing little creatures...just want to do > the right thing by them and the environment. We're in Florida, and believe > me, things here multiply out of control. > > Next time I buy live plants is there a method to clean them off or check for > any of these or other traveling buddies? > > Thank you all for your input. I'm learning so much. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Well, you're using terms that are confusing. A typical pond snail > is not an > > apple snail. Below is a site with lots of pics/images of different > snail > > types. Lets figure out what you have. Apple snails and Mystery > snails (and > > some others) will not reproduce in the manner which you are describing. > > They will lay a large egg cluster on the glass or filter tube or > > even a plant stalk right above the water line. What you are > > describing > sounds more > > like typical pond/nuisance snails. > > http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php > > <http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php> > > <http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php > > <http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php> > > > > > Your new snails likely came from the plants. As long as you don't > have a > > lot of detritus in the gravel the new snails will not become a major > issue. > > If they do become an issue, you can set up a snail trap and start > removing > > them. > > > > It's difficult to sex Apple snails (or most others) so Gary very > well could > > be a Mary but with only one of them, you'll likely not see any > > breeding him/her... although there have been instances where a > > female > apple/mystery > > snail could lay fertile clutches of eggs long after she's been > > separated from a male. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What? One pond apple snail became four or five... > > > > > > Strange goings on in my tank tonight. When I went out to buy pizza, > there > > was one snail in my tank. When I came home, there's one plus four > > other little blobs, and I mean tiny -- bigger than a pinhead smaller > > than the > > tack-- these are snails. Tiny versions of Gary (who, given these > > circumstances, should have been named Mary) ..but he's the only > snail I have > > in the tank and he's (she) only been home a few weeks > > > > So I went into the snail website and it's pretty clear: Pond snails > aren't > > hermaphrodites, and they lay egg clusters (which after looking at > pictures > > have never been in my tank) and now I have no idea where these came > from and > > if Gary secretly hatched or if these four tiny things hitched a ride > on live > > plants...I only have two live plants and I didn't notice a thing on > > them when I bought.. > > > > Any ideas? This does not match anything I can find on the web.... > > > > And more importantly, now what? Do I keep them all? Will they wreak > havoc on > > my tank? Should I get Gary a chastity belt? And when can I safely > move them > > to another tank? > > > > So many questions, so many snails.... > > > > Thanks > > > > Alina > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 12:05:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31200	From: Chris	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: May I ask a favor

I'm thinking about experimenting with plant tissue samples. Would anyone here mind giving me a piece of one of their plant leaves if I mailed a vile over? You only need a single cell to get one started, so the sample would be tiny. Would anyone here be up for that? As an Incentive, I would be happy to return back a mystery gift to brighten the home when I can.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31201	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....

You guys r awesome....both replies (Ray & Goldlenny). so this is what i am going to do. since i have no fish yet and i have already botched the water i am draining all water out. i am going to test my water and reply later with results so that i may get a better idea of what my tank can handle. as of right now i dont even know what type of fish i really want anyway....this would help me out so much and my house can stop smelling :) i will only add in the aquasafe with the new water. no other chemicals. actually i live in a rural area were i only have well water and in the house there is a water softner....do i even need to add aquasafe to the tank???? >>>>>>>>kate --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Kate, Why do you feel that your pH of 8.0 is a problem? It > really shouldn't be for most aquarium fish, unless you're trying to > breed Neons or Discus. Do not try to fight your pH. You will only > get results such as what you are getting as your alkalinity > (buffering capacity) is undoubtedly high and your carbonates are > precipitating out as a result of you adding chemicals -- resulting in > your cloudy ("foggy") water. Do not ever add chemicals > indiscrimitively, and don't add them at all unless absolutely > necessary (and you know the consequences of those actions). Fish > don't need a barrage of chemicals, and don't have them in nature, > usually resulting in them doing just fine. > > Good to see you have not added any life yet. Can I presume that you > might know you need to "cycle" your tank at first anyway, before you > think of adding fish? If not, may I direct you to the archives, as > there is tons of info on both of these subjects with them being very > frequently encountered subjects. If you have any futher question, > please feel free to ask away here and we'll try to do our best to > answer them directly. Pleasse know though, that a pH of 8.0 should > nolt really be a problem though. If for instance -- if you were to > succeed at lowering it, you would have a difficult time not stressing > your fish each time you needed to do a partial water change with your > pH 8.0 tap water (unless I'm assuming this part incorrectly), and you > would also have a hard time trying to maintain a much lower pH when > changing out water, exchanging it with your tap water as part of your > weekly maintenance schedule. One thing we do need to know in all > this is -- what is the pH of your tap water? If its the same, go > with it as the pH to maintain in yor tank. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31202	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: May I ask a favor

Ummmm.. I think you're going to need more than a single cell to grow plants unless you have an awful big laboratory in your house. Send me your address off-list and I'll send you anacharis, duckweed and guppy grass... and not just single cells. Easy to grow plants (like those three) are pretty easy to ship. Just loosely wrap them in some damp newspaper and send them in one of those plastic Express Mail envelopes and they'll be fine for a 2-3 day shipment. Postage should only be a couple of dollars since it won't weigh very much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] May I ask a favor I'm thinking about experimenting with plant tissue samples. Would anyone here mind giving me a piece of one of their plant leaves if I mailed a vile over? You only need a single cell to get one started, so the sample would be tiny. Would anyone here be up for that? As an Incentive, I would be happy to return back a mystery gift to brighten the home when I can. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 12:29:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 12:36:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31203	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: May I ask a favor

Tissue cultures grow in viles or test tubes. There are differnt ways of doing it, but you only need a small tissue sample. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 1:36:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] May I ask a favor Ummmm.. I think you're going to need more than a single cell to grow plants unless you have an awful big laboratory in your house. Send me your address off-list and I'll send you anacharis, duckweed and guppy grass... and not just single cells. Easy to grow plants (like those three) are pretty easy to ship. Just loosely wrap them in some damp newspaper and send them in one of those plastic Express Mail envelopes and they'll be fine for a 2-3 day shipment.. Postage should only be a couple of dollars since it won't weigh very much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] May I ask a favor I'm thinking about experimenting with plant tissue samples. Would anyone here mind giving me a piece of one of their plant leaves if I mailed a vile over? You only need a single cell to get one started, so the sample would be tiny. Would anyone here be up for that? As an Incentive, I would be happy to return back a mystery gift to brighten the home when I can. ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 12:29:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 12:36:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31204	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!

Yeah, My temp was 76 F These have been normal range stats for water. I just had the two mollies in the tank. I got them both about two months ago from a lfs they were both in the same tank there as well. They are in my 10 gallon with a few small plants. My other molly is fine. She is a scaredy cat and hides a lot. I found her before I left this morning though. I am not nor have I ever treated this tank with anything besides a declorniator. I used my jungle dipsticks and a master test kit to double check the sticks. My water is always hard. I dont know how old the mollies are. This was the larger one that died though so I'm thinking that may have been the problem. Sarah OK. Your water parameters look OK. Is your temp OK too? Are these numbersconsistent with your normal water parameters?What size tank do you have and what other fish? Is your tank heavilyplanted... or why are you having trouble finding your other molly? Anypossible predatory fish in your tank?How long has the tank been set up? Any new fish added recently? Whatmedicines or additives (chemicals, etc.) are you adding?Just to clarify a couple of things on your test results. Is the CH achlorine test? Are your test results from dip sticks? If so, which brand?Is your water always so hard or are you adding anything to the tank? It'snot necessarily a bad thing, I was just checking.Last but not least... how old were the mollies?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:44 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?!Okay, So I wake up this morning to find one of my two mollies dead.There has been nothing wrong in this tank, not ich or anything else.Here are my water stats: NO3 10 NO2 0 GH 300 CH 0 KH 300 PH 8.4 Ammonia 0I cannot find the other mollie right now I'm hoping she is still alive.I could not find any visable signs as to why it died. What is happening toall my fish? I've never had this much trouble keeping them alive before!_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008Tested on: 10/10/2008 8:25:58 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31205	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: May I ask a favor

Is your project top secret? you have my curiosity? :) On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Chris Johnson <crjm28@...> wrote: > Tissue cultures grow in viles or test tubes. There are differnt ways of > doing it, but you only need a small tissue sample. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 1:36:32 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] May I ask a favor > > Ummmm.. I think you're going to need more than a single cell to grow plants > unless you have an awful big laboratory in your house. > > Send me your address off-list and I'll send you anacharis, duckweed and > guppy grass... and not just single cells. Easy to grow plants (like those > three) are pretty easy to ship. Just loosely wrap them in some damp > newspaper and send them in one of those plastic Express Mail envelopes and > they'll be fine for a 2-3 day shipment.. Postage should only be a couple of > dollars since it won't weigh very much. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 12:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] May I ask a favor > > I'm thinking about experimenting with plant tissue samples. Would anyone > here mind giving me a piece of one of their plant leaves if I mailed a vile > over? You only need a single cell to get one started, so the sample would > be > tiny. Would anyone here be up for that? As an Incentive, I would be happy > to > return back a mystery gift to brighten the home when I can. > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 > Tested on: 10/10/2008 12:29:56 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 > Tested on: 10/10/2008 12:36:31 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31206	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: May I ask a favor

Psst....the spelling you want is "vial". ;) Chris Johnson wrote: > Tissue cultures grow in viles or test tubes. There are differnt ways of doing it, but you only need a small tissue sample. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31207	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Ummmmmm i found the problem............:)

well ummm kate here. i think i may have found my problem. so i was like cleaning out the tank when i noticed bits and pieces in my tank. now i knew i had cleaned everything properly, but didnt understand why until i noticed a starfish........it had been deteriorating in the tank. i did not know it would do that!!!!!!!! so i truly am an amatuer:( but now i know how imprtant it is to have an emergency tank setup around the house. i think i will get a 5g or something small. ok ok now i did some water testing on the water in my house. and i am sharing this cause i need ur help....boy do i. so....... PH @ 8.3 NH3 NH4 @.0mg/l NO2 nitrite <.3mg/l GH @ over 40 drops and didnt even change color KH @ 12 drops and changed immedietely. thnx u guys and yeah i know im a doofus but i didnt think the starfish would hurt i mean it looked really cool in the tank...ah man what a day. i am about done setting up my tank i just need to add the water again. this time i wont add chemicals, i wont be scared of ph, and i will listen to my peers. :) >>>>>>kate>> man i feel like a total newbie.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31208	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....

Kate, If you have a private well, with no chloramine or chlorine being added, you would not need the Aqua safe for that, but its adviseable to still use it to neutralize any heavy metals you may have in the water (unless you're sure by analysis reports that your water is free from having heavy metals). Ray<BR><BR><BR> **************<BR>New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31209	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Ummmmmm i found the problem............:)

ill be the first to welcome you to the newbie club :) hah, take a seat. feel free to help yourself to coffee and doughnuts! On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 6:46 PM, cherrystix81 <cherrystix81@...>wrote: > well ummm kate here. i think i may have found my problem. > so i was like cleaning out the tank when i noticed bits and pieces in > my tank. now i knew i had cleaned everything properly, but didnt > understand why until i noticed a starfish........it had been > deteriorating in the tank. i did not know it would do that!!!!!!!! > so i truly am an amatuer:( but now i know how imprtant it is to have an > emergency tank setup around the house. i think i will get a 5g or > something small. > ok ok now i did some water testing on the water in my house. and i am > sharing this cause i need ur help....boy do i. > so....... PH @ 8.3 > NH3 NH4 @.0mg/l > NO2 nitrite <.3mg/l > GH @ over 40 drops and didnt even change color > KH @ 12 drops and changed immedietely. > thnx u guys and yeah i know im a doofus but i didnt think the starfish > would hurt i mean it looked really cool in the tank...ah man what a day. > i am about done setting up my tank i just need to add the water again. > this time i wont add chemicals, i wont be scared of ph, and i will > listen to my peers. :) >>>>>>kate>> man i feel like a total newbie. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31210	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!

According to my Lifespan Guide http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan, Molly's should live for around 4 years so it doesn't look like it was an old age issue. Do you have a heater in the tank? Does the temp stay consistently at 76F or could it have been bouncing around from day to night? For tropical fish, it's best to have a consistent temperature. 76F is OK but a little higher would likely be better although the Mongabay profile on Molly's show a temperature range of 70-82 is OK so 76F would be right in the middle... but consistency is important. If the temp was bouncing around, that is a stressor to the fish and when fish get stressed, they are more likely to get sick from something they would normally handle with no problem. What was your female to male ratio? With livebearers, it's best to have a couple of females for every male to minimize harassment/fighting... or have all males or all females if you want to avoid too many fry. Even all females will likely give birth once or twice even with no males in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:03 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! Yeah, My temp was 76 F These have been normal range stats for water. I just had the two mollies in the tank. I got them both about two months ago from a lfs they were both in the same tank there as well. They are in my 10 gallon with a few small plants. My other molly is fine. She is a scaredy cat and hides a lot. I found her before I left this morning though. I am not nor have I ever treated this tank with anything besides a declorniator. I used my jungle dipsticks and a master test kit to double check the sticks. My water is always hard. I dont know how old the mollies are. This was the larger one that died though so I'm thinking that may have been the problem. Sarah OK. Your water parameters look OK. Is your temp OK too? Are these numbersconsistent with your normal water parameters?What size tank do you have and what other fish? Is your tank heavilyplanted... or why are you having trouble finding your other molly? Anypossible predatory fish in your tank?How long has the tank been set up? Any new fish added recently? Whatmedicines or additives (chemicals, etc.) are you adding?Just to clarify a couple of things on your test results. Is the CH achlorine test? Are your test results from dip sticks? If so, which brand?Is your water always so hard or are you adding anything to the tank? It'snot necessarily a bad thing, I was just checking.Last but not least... how old were the mollies?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:44 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?!Okay, So I wake up this morning to find one of my two mollies dead.There has been nothing wrong in this tank, not ich or anything else.Here are my water stats: NO3 10 NO2 0 GH 300 CH 0 KH 300 PH 8.4 Ammonia 0I cannot find the other mollie right now I'm hoping she is still alive.I could not find any visable signs as to why it died. What is happening toall my fish? I've never had this much trouble keeping them alive before!_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008Tested on: 10/10/2008 8:25:58 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 9:17:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: May I ask a favor

I'm sure the tissue cultures could be vile as well. I'm leaning towards 4. ;-) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vile 1 a: morally despicable or abhorrent <nothing is so vile as intellectual dishonesty> b: physically repulsive : foul <a vile slum> 2: of little worth or account : common ; also : mean 3: tending to degrade <vile employments> 4: disgustingly or utterly bad : Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Badeen Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] May I ask a favor Psst....the spelling you want is "vial". ;) Chris Johnson wrote: > Tissue cultures grow in viles or test tubes. There are differnt ways of doing it, but you only need a small tissue sample. > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 5:04:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 9:22:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....

You probably don't have to use a dechlor but have you ever had your well water tested, or do you have it tested on a regular basis (twice a year)? The only thing I would think that Aquasafe or a more basic dechlor (TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator or API Tap Water Conditioner are the ones I use) would at least treat for any heavy metals that might be in the well water. Presuming you have a by-pass valve from your water softener, it would probably be better to use the well water directly rather than the water softener water although someone else might have more info on this. From all I've read, water softeners remove a lot of the good things from water that our fish need. Your County Agent or other county office will usually test your well water for things like heavy metals, etc. to make sure it's safe for drinking. You do want to get some plain ammonia (Ace Hardware sells it as will other mom/pop type hardware stores and very few grocery stores still sell the plain ammonia) so you can start your fishless cycling which will take a few weeks to complete. During this time, you will have time to decide what fish you want to initially stock your tank with. What size tank do you have again? I didn't see your original post in this thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cherrystix81 Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 12:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hello..... You guys r awesome....both replies (Ray & Goldlenny). so this is what i am going to do. since i have no fish yet and i have already botched the water i am draining all water out. i am going to test my water and reply later with results so that i may get a better idea of what my tank can handle. as of right now i dont even know what type of fish i really want anyway....this would help me out so much and my house can stop smelling :) i will only add in the aquasafe with the new water. no other chemicals. actually i live in a rural area were i only have well water and in the house there is a water softner....do i even need to add aquasafe to the tank???? >>>>>>>>kate --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Kate, Why do you feel that your pH of 8.0 is a problem? It really > shouldn't be for most aquarium fish, unless you're trying to breed > Neons or Discus. Do not try to fight your pH. You will only get > results such as what you are getting as your alkalinity (buffering > capacity) is undoubtedly high and your carbonates are precipitating > out as a result of you adding chemicals -- resulting in > your cloudy ("foggy") water. Do not ever add chemicals > indiscrimitively, and don't add them at all unless absolutely > necessary (and you know the consequences of those actions). Fish don't > need a barrage of chemicals, and don't have them in nature, usually > resulting in them doing just fine. > > Good to see you have not added any life yet. Can I presume that you > might know you need to "cycle" your tank at first anyway, before you > think of adding fish? If not, may I direct you to the archives, as > there is tons of info on both of these subjects with them being very > frequently encountered subjects. If you have any futher question, > please feel free to ask away here and we'll try to do our best to > answer them directly. Pleasse know though, that a pH of 8.0 should > nolt really be a problem though. If for instance -- if you were to > succeed at lowering it, you would have a difficult time not stressing > your fish each time you needed to do a partial water change with your > pH 8.0 tap water (unless I'm assuming this part incorrectly), and you > would also have a hard time trying to maintain a much lower pH when > changing out water, exchanging it with your tap water as part of your > weekly maintenance schedule. One thing we do need to know in all this > is -- what is the pH of your tap water? If its the same, go with it as > the pH to maintain in yor tank. Ray ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 1:00:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 9:00:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31213	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Ummmmmm i found the problem............:)

You mean it was a live/real starfish? Yep, they won't live in a freshwater tank (although there may be a FW starfish out there somewhere) and a dead one would decay and stink to high-heaven as you've learned. LOL I hope you filled up a gallon bucket with your water and those are your first test results. Lets see what the 24 hour and 48 hour test results are as well before making any presumptions about your water parameters. You can sometimes find free small tanks on your local FreeCycle.org site but if you wanted a new Hospital/Quarantine tank, Wally World (aka Wal-Mart) has a 10G kit (I think with everything but a heater) at a really low cost. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cherrystix81 Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ummmmmm i found the problem............:) well ummm kate here. i think i may have found my problem. so i was like cleaning out the tank when i noticed bits and pieces in my tank. now i knew i had cleaned everything properly, but didnt understand why until i noticed a starfish........it had been deteriorating in the tank. i did not know it would do that!!!!!!!! so i truly am an amatuer:( but now i know how imprtant it is to have an emergency tank setup around the house. i think i will get a 5g or something small. ok ok now i did some water testing on the water in my house. and i am sharing this cause i need ur help....boy do i. so....... PH @ 8.3 NH3 NH4 @.0mg/l NO2 nitrite <.3mg/l GH @ over 40 drops and didnt even change color KH @ 12 drops and changed immedietely. thnx u guys and yeah i know im a doofus but i didnt think the starfish would hurt i mean it looked really cool in the tank...ah man what a day. i am about done setting up my tank i just need to add the water again. this time i wont add chemicals, i wont be scared of ph, and i will listen to my peers. :) >>>>>>kate>> man i feel like a total newbie. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 9:37:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31214	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Ummmmmm i found the problem............:)

Well, since you didn't include the coffee and donuts, I'll do it... N'Awlins style! ;-) http://www.cafedumonde.com/main.html (Cafe Au Lait & Beignets) or for a real pic http://static.flickr.com/111/315166348_73dbb8a5a2.jpg MMMMMMM.. now I might have to head down to the French Quarter this weekend... but I won't be hitting Cafe Du Monde until the wee hours after playing on Bourbon Street all night. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ummmmmm i found the problem............:) ill be the first to welcome you to the newbie club :) hah, take a seat. feel free to help yourself to coffee and doughnuts! On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 6:46 PM, cherrystix81 <cherrystix81@... <mailto:cherrystix81%40yahoo.com> >wrote: > well ummm kate here. i think i may have found my problem. > so i was like cleaning out the tank when i noticed bits and pieces in > my tank. now i knew i had cleaned everything properly, but didnt > understand why until i noticed a starfish........it had been > deteriorating in the tank. i did not know it would do that!!!!!!!! > so i truly am an amatuer:( but now i know how imprtant it is to have > an emergency tank setup around the house. i think i will get a 5g or > something small. > ok ok now i did some water testing on the water in my house. and i am > sharing this cause i need ur help....boy do i. > so....... PH @ 8.3 > NH3 NH4 @.0mg/l > NO2 nitrite <.3mg/l > GH @ over 40 drops and didnt even change color KH @ 12 drops and > changed immedietely. > thnx u guys and yeah i know im a doofus but i didnt think the starfish > would hurt i mean it looked really cool in the tank...ah man what a day. > i am about done setting up my tank i just need to add the water again. > this time i wont add chemicals, i wont be scared of ph, and i will > listen to my peers. :) >>>>>>kate>> man i feel like a total newbie. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 6:46:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 9:45:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31215	From: mike	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?

no coral, i have no nitrate in tap water i tested before cycle and zero. i use a PUR filter on the tap water. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Continue to add ammonia until your nitrites are 0 also. > > As for your nitrates, that is high for a marine tank, particularly if you are going to be keeping corals, from my understanding (I am not a marine person). What is the nitrate in your tap water? Do you treat your water in any way prior to adding it to thank (i.e. use an RO filter)? If so, what is the nitrate level after treatment? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] cycling complete? > > ok, I've cycled for over a month (trickle filter, saltwater, fishless > added amonia to 5 ppm) and now my amonia is 0. My nitrite is toward > the top of chart at 1.5 ppm which leads me to think that the secondary > bacteria isn't complete but my nitrate are also high on chart at 40- 50 > ppm. This is right after a 40% PWC. > > Should I add a little ammonia every day so the bacteria still has a > food source? How long does it take for the bacteria to die? > > I'm thinking I need more time until the nitrites come down more. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31216	From: mike	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: vacuuming sand?

yeah the sand looks finer than the crap i remember vacuuming out!! if it goes out, which it will, i'll replace with gravel, just wanted a real looking salt water beach seen! the girls in bikinis are leavin too! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Reduce the flow, and you will reduce the amount of sand that will move > up too far and become waste. You can also forgo the vacuuming of the > sane and just stir it up to let the filter take care of what ends up in > suspension. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of mike > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuuming sand? > > I would always gravel vacuum with a syphon and remove some nasty stuff. > Now I have a new tank and went with sand with bacteria to speed up > cycle. > > I haven't added fish yet, but how can you vacuum sand when it is so > fine it will come right up? Should I just suck it up and replace with > gravel slowly? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31217	From: mike	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?

yeah thanx i thought that. its saltwater i said that much.i did 5 ppm on ammonia because thats what i saw on posts.i only did a big 40% PWC because i had to repain a pinhole leak that was on bottom of internal overflow box & the nitrates were very high & still are --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, you need to keep feeding the ammonia eating bacteria or they will start > to die off. That will mean less nitrite so the nitrite eating bacteria will > start to die or not grow a full colony also. > > Is this going to be a saltwater/marine tank or a freshwater tank? You > mention saltwater and I'm not sure you need to cycle a SW tank to 5ppm of > ammonia since you will not have as big of a bioload in a SW tank compared to > FW tanks. > > Why did you do a 40% PWC? I know that sometimes, PWC's are needed if your > KH levels get too low as that will stall the cycling but I just wanted to > check and clarify for other readers. > > Your nitrites aren't peaking yet. They should get much higher than 1.5ppm > at their peak but this will only happen if you keep dosing the ammonia daily > or as needed whenever it gets back down to 0-1ppm. Do not overdose the > ammonia over 4-5ppm or that could stall things badly. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] cycling complete? > > ok, I've cycled for over a month (trickle filter, saltwater, fishless added > amonia to 5 ppm) and now my amonia is 0. My nitrite is toward the top of > chart at 1.5 ppm which leads me to think that the secondary bacteria isn't > complete but my nitrate are also high on chart at 40-50 ppm. This is right > after a 40% PWC. > > Should I add a little ammonia every day so the bacteria still has a food > source? How long does it take for the bacteria to die? > > I'm thinking I need more time until the nitrites come down more. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 > Tested on: 10/9/2008 10:42:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081009-1, 10/09/2008 > Tested on: 10/9/2008 11:10:33 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31218	From: Chris	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: how close am I

Ammonia zero to .25 Nitrites 1ppm Nitrates 10-20ppm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31219	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: vacuuming sand?

If you want to stay with sand, check out pool filter sand at your local pool supply store. It's a heavier grain so it won't be as likely to suck up into your siphon tube or get stirred up by water action as easily as a fine grain sand. Check out a couple of different brands for the smoothest one you can find as I've seen some that are quite coarse.... which may not be good for some fish/critters... although I hear Hawaiian sand is very coarse and they have lots of fish/critters around there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: vacuuming sand? yeah the sand looks finer than the crap i remember vacuuming out!! if it goes out, which it will, i'll replace with gravel, just wanted a real looking salt water beach seen! the girls in bikinis are leavin too! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Reduce the flow, and you will reduce the amount of sand that will move > up too far and become waste. You can also forgo the vacuuming of the > sane and just stir it up to let the filter take care of what ends up in > suspension. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of mike > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] vacuuming sand? > > I would always gravel vacuum with a syphon and remove some nasty stuff. > Now I have a new tank and went with sand with bacteria to speed up > cycle. > > I haven't added fish yet, but how can you vacuum sand when it is so > fine it will come right up? Should I just suck it up and replace with > gravel slowly? > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 10:20:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 10:48:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31220	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?

Well it won't hurt to cycle it to 4-5ppm but if your bioload will not be that large, the N-bacteria will just die down to a level that will handle your bioload. The 4-5ppm level is recommended for a FW tank where the user wants to stock the tank with a nearly full bioload as soon as it's done fishless cycling. It's OK for your nitrates to get high during the fishless cycle. That's why you do the 90% PWC at the end of the fishless cycle. Of course, doing smaller PWC's during the fishless cycle won't hurt as long as you bring the ammonia level back up to 4-5ppm. If you ever do see your cycle kind of stall, do a PWC, or properly dose with baking soda to get the KH level back up but you may not have that issue. I don't have it with my water which is relatively hard down here. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cycling complete? yeah thanx i thought that. its saltwater i said that much.i did 5 ppm on ammonia because thats what i saw on posts.i only did a big 40% PWC because i had to repain a pinhole leak that was on bottom of internal overflow box & the nitrates were very high & still are --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, you need to keep feeding the ammonia eating bacteria or they will start > to die off. That will mean less nitrite so the nitrite eating bacteria will > start to die or not grow a full colony also. > > Is this going to be a saltwater/marine tank or a freshwater tank? You > mention saltwater and I'm not sure you need to cycle a SW tank to 5ppm of > ammonia since you will not have as big of a bioload in a SW tank compared to > FW tanks. > > Why did you do a 40% PWC? I know that sometimes, PWC's are needed if your > KH levels get too low as that will stall the cycling but I just wanted to > check and clarify for other readers. > > Your nitrites aren't peaking yet. They should get much higher than 1.5ppm > at their peak but this will only happen if you keep dosing the ammonia daily > or as needed whenever it gets back down to 0-1ppm. Do not overdose the > ammonia over 4-5ppm or that could stall things badly. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] cycling complete? > > ok, I've cycled for over a month (trickle filter, saltwater, fishless added > amonia to 5 ppm) and now my amonia is 0. My nitrite is toward the top of > chart at 1.5 ppm which leads me to think that the secondary bacteria isn't > complete but my nitrate are also high on chart at 40-50 ppm. This is right > after a 40% PWC. > > Should I add a little ammonia every day so the bacteria still has a food > source? How long does it take for the bacteria to die? > > I'm thinking I need more time until the nitrites come down more. > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 10:53:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: how close am I

I forget.. are you fishless cycling now or do you still have some fish alive? I think it's the latter but I'm not recalling all of the facts on your tank. If fishless cycling, it depends on how fast your tank is cycling 4-5ppm ammonia level. Once it is handling 4-5ppm of ammonia, down to 0.0ppm, in 12 hours, then the ammonia eating bacteria have a full sized colony. Then you keep dosing ammonia daily and you would need to watch for the nitrite level going down to zero after dosing the ammonia back up to 4-5ppm every 12 hours or so. Then you will know the nitrite eating bacteria have a sufficient sized colony to handle the ammonia>nitrite down to zero in 12 hours. Then you are done. I would need to see a chart of your numbers to know how "close" you are. If you are still cycling with fish, it's harder to tell by a chart due to the number of PWC's that must be done so we don't know if the ammonia/nitrites are being reduced by sufficient bacteria colony size or from the PWC's. If your tap/source water does not have nitrates, you are at least starting to see your cycle working since you have a nitrate reading. When the ammonia and nitrite are both 0.0ppm and stay there, then your tank is cycled for the existing bioload. As soon as you add more fish, the tank will go into a mini-cycle until the bacteria grow larger colonies to handle the larger bioload. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] how close am I Ammonia zero to .25 Nitrites 1ppm Nitrates 10-20ppm _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 11:03:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31222	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/10/2008
Subject: Re: Ummmmmm i found the problem............:)

I wondered why my fish were acting a little off - I've been going crazy for two days because my hard drive died. Bottom came off the filter tube and I paid no attention. One of the fish tried to find Nemo, and I fuond it decomposing in the bottom of the intake tube. ----- Original Message ----- From: "cherrystix81" <cherrystix81@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 5:46 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ummmmmm i found the problem............:) well ummm kate here. i think i may have found my problem. so i was like cleaning out the tank when i noticed bits and pieces in my tank. now i knew i had cleaned everything properly, but didnt understand why until i noticed a starfish........it had been deteriorating in the tank. i did not know it would do that!!!!!!!! so i truly am an amatuer:( but now i know how imprtant it is to have an emergency tank setup around the house. i think i will get a 5g or something small. ok ok now i did some water testing on the water in my house. and i am sharing this cause i need ur help....boy do i. so....... PH @ 8.3 NH3 NH4 @.0mg/l NO2 nitrite <.3mg/l GH @ over 40 drops and didnt even change color KH @ 12 drops and changed immedietely. thnx u guys and yeah i know im a doofus but i didnt think the starfish would hurt i mean it looked really cool in the tank...ah man what a day. i am about done setting up my tank i just need to add the water again. this time i wont add chemicals, i wont be scared of ph, and i will listen to my peers. :) >>>>>>kate>> man i feel like a total newbie. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31223	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: how close am I

I have fish. I do believe that my nitrate test got a bit darker today from earlier. I'm not fond of the nitrite level, but its been holding steady at around 1 for the last couple of days. Should I keep restricting my fishs' food intake for now? ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 12:03:59 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] how close am I I forget.. are you fishless cycling now or do you still have some fish alive? I think it's the latter but I'm not recalling all of the facts on your tank. If fishless cycling, it depends on how fast your tank is cycling 4-5ppm ammonia level. Once it is handling 4-5ppm of ammonia, down to 0.0ppm, in 12 hours, then the ammonia eating bacteria have a full sized colony. Then you keep dosing ammonia daily and you would need to watch for the nitrite level going down to zero after dosing the ammonia back up to 4-5ppm every 12 hours or so. Then you will know the nitrite eating bacteria have a sufficient sized colony to handle the ammonia>nitrite down to zero in 12 hours. Then you are done. I would need to see a chart of your numbers to know how "close" you are. If you are still cycling with fish, it's harder to tell by a chart due to the number of PWC's that must be done so we don't know if the ammonia/nitrites are being reduced by sufficient bacteria colony size or from the PWC's. If your tap/source water does not have nitrates, you are at least starting to see your cycle working since you have a nitrate reading. When the ammonia and nitrite are both 0.0ppm and stay there, then your tank is cycled for the existing bioload. As soon as you add more fish, the tank will go into a mini-cycle until the bacteria grow larger colonies to handle the larger bioload. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] how close am I Ammonia zero to .25 Nitrites 1ppm Nitrates 10-20ppm _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/10/2008 11:03:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31224	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: how close am I

No, I do not think you should be restricting their diet. This is often the advice from many pet store employees (aka the uniformed) as a way to slow down the production of ammonia>nitrite... but this is actually not good for the fish but rather to make things easier for the fish keeper. New born and juvi fish NEED proper feedings even more so than adult fish. Their metabolisms are higher and they are growing. Not feeding them properly will cause stunting. For example, a less-nice way of putting that advice would be, "Starve your fish so you don't have to do as many PWC's.".... which would be comparable to "Don't feed your newborn baby so you don't have to change diapers as often." Sounds rather harsh when put in those terms but those are perfect analogies to that bad advice often given by the uninformed or misinformed.... and the latter would likely land someone in jail for child neglect. The simple fact, when a fish keeper chooses to cycle with fish, is it's bad enough that the fish are having to go through that process, they shouldn't have to have their diet restricted as well. Feed them properly and do the PWC's as needed to keep the ammonia>nitrites at safe levels until the cycling process is complete. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] how close am I I have fish. I do believe that my nitrate test got a bit darker today from earlier. I'm not fond of the nitrite level, but its been holding steady at around 1 for the last couple of days. Should I keep restricting my fishs' food intake for now? ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 12:03:59 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] how close am I I forget.. are you fishless cycling now or do you still have some fish alive? I think it's the latter but I'm not recalling all of the facts on your tank. If fishless cycling, it depends on how fast your tank is cycling 4-5ppm ammonia level. Once it is handling 4-5ppm of ammonia, down to 0.0ppm, in 12 hours, then the ammonia eating bacteria have a full sized colony. Then you keep dosing ammonia daily and you would need to watch for the nitrite level going down to zero after dosing the ammonia back up to 4-5ppm every 12 hours or so. Then you will know the nitrite eating bacteria have a sufficient sized colony to handle the ammonia>nitrite down to zero in 12 hours. Then you are done. I would need to see a chart of your numbers to know how "close" you are. If you are still cycling with fish, it's harder to tell by a chart due to the number of PWC's that must be done so we don't know if the ammonia/nitrites are being reduced by sufficient bacteria colony size or from the PWC's. If your tap/source water does not have nitrates, you are at least starting to see your cycle working since you have a nitrate reading. When the ammonia and nitrite are both 0.0ppm and stay there, then your tank is cycled for the existing bioload. As soon as you add more fish, the tank will go into a mini-cycle until the bacteria grow larger colonies to handle the larger bioload. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] how close am I Ammonia zero to .25 Nitrites 1ppm Nitrates 10-20ppm _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 4:16:43 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31225	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: hello.....

Do NOT try to change the pH of your water. Do NOT try to change the pH of your water. Do NOT try to change the pH of your water. It will only lead you to grief. You are now experiencing some. If you had fish in the tank, it could have been worse. All water has a buffering capacity which comes from the amount of calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate, and, to a lesser extent, other carbonate ions which is referred to as KH. There are test kits readily available for the measurement of KH which is expressed in German degrees. One German degree is the equivalent of 17.8575 mg/l. It is this buffer that must be reduced to lower pH. Neutralizing this buffer is usually done by adding an acid, usually phosphoric acid for aquariums, until the desired pH is reached. The problem one faces, however, is that it is quite possible to neutralize too much of the carbonate ions, which is referred to as "breaking the buffer", and your pH will change, falling precipitously, to a value that would be considered too low to keep most fishes. Now, you not only have the problem of a rapidly falling pH, which is very stressful to the fish in and of itself, but you have a pH that they cannot survive in for very long. In your case, with a pH of 8.0, you would need to consider fish that like a higher pH. African (Rift Lake) cichlids are a popular choice for waters with a higher pH. Many livebearers come from water with a high pH also, so you are not limited to fish that are generally quite aggressive, as cichlids can be. FWIW, pH is always a lowercase "p" and an uppercase "H", even should it be used to start a sentence (tough to explain to an English teacher, believe me, I know <g>). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cherrystix81 Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 9:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hello..... hello everyone and thnx for letting me join the group. i already have a quistion that i hope can be answered.... i just started a new tank and its been about three days since i set it up. my problem's are this i have been measuring the ph level and every time it says 8 i have tried a couple of things to remedy the situation, like i treated the water with aqua safe, and when that didnt help i put in a chemical to lower ph, that didnt work, and my water started getting really foggy....then i put in some more aqua safe hoping it would help...it didnt. then i tried a little salt and some baking soda, and that didnt help(i heard about the baking soda online) am i going crazy????? my tank is still foggy and now it smells wierd..i dont know what to do if i should do anything. am i jumping the gun here??? i havent gotten any life yet thank goodness, i am hoping to be able to handle the tank first....thnx to anyone who can help me>>>>>>kate ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31226	From: Angel in Pa	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Petco coupon if anyone could use it for their fishies

PRINTABLE PETCO COUPON: $10 off $50 Purchase OR $5 off $25 Purchase PRINTABLE PETCO COUPON: $10 off $50 Purchase OR $5 off $25 Purchase (thru 10-25-08) http://www.petco com/naturalcampa ign/petcoofferpr int.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31227	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Petco coupon if anyone could use it for their fishies

cool thanks :) ----- Original Message ---- From: Angel in Pa <wellrimdangel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 8:01:17 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Petco coupon if anyone could use it for their fishies PRINTABLE PETCO COUPON: $10 off $50 Purchase OR $5 off $25 Purchase PRINTABLE PETCO COUPON: $10 off $50 Purchase OR $5 off $25 Purchase (thru 10-25-08) http://www.petco.. com/naturalcampa ign/petcoofferpr int.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31228	From: Chris	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: buying a new plant. Snail Control

What is that saltwater solution to rinse plants in before adding to the tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31229	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Kribensis

If you still have them, I will ask my son. He is in Conway,Pa. --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> wrote: > From: Jenn <jennhonaker1974@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Kribensis > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 1:51 AM > Anyone in the Pittsburgh PA/Washington PA area want a mated > pair of > Kribensis? > > jenn > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31230	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!

Well, darn. At the time I had two females but my heater was unplugged so that may have added to it. My plug in is all messed up but I took care of that yesterday. My molly that was left was a very scared fish so I decided she needed atleast somthing in there with her. I went and picked up another female and a male molly. I figured adding the two shouldnt over load the tanks bioload. They are seeming to get alont just great but I did get a snale in the mix aswell. Anyway, I'm adding my water to the 35 today so I will get that started. I can just add fish food to start a cycle correct? My hubby doesnt want ammonia laying around. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:17:16 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! According to my Lifespan Guidehttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan, Molly's should live foraround 4 years so it doesn't look like it was an old age issue.Do you have a heater in the tank? Does the temp stay consistently at 76F orcould it have been bouncing around from day to night? For tropical fish,it's best to have a consistent temperature. 76F is OK but a little higherwould likely be better although the Mongabay profile on Molly's show atemperature range of 70-82 is OK so 76F would be right in the middle... butconsistency is important. If the temp was bouncing around, that is astressor to the fish and when fish get stressed, they are more likely to getsick from something they would normally handle with no problem.What was your female to male ratio? With livebearers, it's best to have acouple of females for every male to minimize harassment/fighting... or haveall males or all females if you want to avoid too many fry. Even allfemales will likely give birth once or twice even with no males in the tank.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?!Yeah, My temp was 76 F These have been normal range stats for water. I justhad the two mollies in the tank. I got them both about two months ago from alfs they were both in the same tank there as well. They are in my 10 gallonwith a few small plants. My other molly is fine. She is a scaredy cat andhides a lot. I found her before I left this morning though. I am not norhave I ever treated this tank with anything besides a declorniator. I usedmy jungle dipsticks and a master test kit to double check the sticks. Mywater is always hard. I dont know how old the mollies are. This was thelarger one that died though so I'm thinking that may have been the problem.SarahOK. Your water parameters look OK. Is your temp OK too? Are thesenumbersconsistent with your normal water parameters?What size tank do youhave and what other fish? Is your tank heavilyplanted... or why are youhaving trouble finding your other molly? Anypossible predatory fish in yourtank?How long has the tank been set up? Any new fish added recently?Whatmedicines or additives (chemicals, etc.) are you adding?Just to clarifya couple of things on your test results. Is the CH achlorine test? Are yourtest results from dip sticks? If so, which brand?Is your water always sohard or are you adding anything to the tank? It'snot necessarily a badthing, I was just checking.Last but not least... how old were themollies?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Friday, October 10, 2008 7:44 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] What ishappening with my fish?!Okay, So I wake up this morning to find one of mytwo mollies dead.There has been nothing wrong in this tank, not ich oranything else.Here are my water stats: NO3 10 NO2 0 GH 300 CH 0 KH 300 PH8.4 Ammonia 0I cannot find the other mollie right now I'm hoping she isstill alive.I could not find any visable signs as to why it died. What ishappening toall my fish? I've never had this much trouble keeping them alivebefore!_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081009-1, 10/09/2008Tested on: 10/10/2008 8:25:58 AMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008Tested on: 10/10/2008 9:17:16 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31231	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: buying a new plant. Snail Control

Here's a few long articles with various methods of pre-treating plants to try and prevent all nasties... not just the potential snails. I've never seen a saltwater recipe for snail prevention. (DO NOT USE CHEMICAL TREATMENTS THAT ARE ADDED TO YOUR MAIN TANK) http://www.applesnail.net/content/various/eradication.htm http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] buying a new plant. Snail Control What is that saltwater solution to rinse plants in before adding to the tank? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 1:45:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31232	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!

Fish food will take longer because it needs to rot first before it can create the ammonia needed for the cycle. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 2:26 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! Well, darn. At the time I had two females but my heater was unplugged so that may have added to it. My plug in is all messed up but I took care of that yesterday. My molly that was left was a very scared fish so I decided she needed atleast somthing in there with her. I went and picked up another female and a male molly. I figured adding the two shouldnt over load the tanks bioload. They are seeming to get alont just great but I did get a snale in the mix aswell. Anyway, I'm adding my water to the 35 today so I will get that started. I can just add fish food to start a cycle correct? My hubby doesnt want ammonia laying around. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:17:16 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! According to my Lifespan Guidehttp:// <Guidehttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan,> goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan, Molly's should live foraround 4 years so it doesn't look like it was an old age issue.Do you have a heater in the tank? Does the temp stay consistently at 76F orcould it have been bouncing around from day to night? For tropical fish,it's best to have a consistent temperature. 76F is OK but a little higherwould likely be better although the Mongabay profile on Molly's show atemperature range of 70-82 is OK so 76F would be right in the middle... butconsistency is important. If the temp was bouncing around, that is astressor to the fish and when fish get stressed, they are more likely to getsick from something they would normally handle with no problem.What was your female to male ratio? With livebearers, it's best to have acouple of females for every male to minimize harassment/fighting... or haveall males or all females if you want to avoid too many fry. Even allfemales will likely give birth once or twice even with no males in the tank.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?!Yeah, My temp was 76 F These have been normal range stats for water. I justhad the two mollies in the tank. I got them both about two months ago from alfs they were both in the same tank there as well. They are in my 10 gallonwith a few small plants. My other molly is fine. She is a scaredy cat andhides a lot. I found her before I left this morning though. I am not norhave I ever treated this tank with anything besides a declorniator. I usedmy jungle dipsticks and a master test kit to double check the sticks. Mywater is always hard. I dont know how old the mollies are. This was thelarger one that died though so I'm thinking that may have been the problem.SarahOK. Your water parameters look OK. Is your temp OK too? Are thesenumbersconsistent with your normal water parameters?What size tank do youhave and what other fish? Is your tank heavilyplanted... or why are youhaving trouble finding your other molly? Anypossible predatory fish in yourtank?How long has the tank been set up? Any new fish added recently?Whatmedicines or additives (chemicals, etc.) are you adding?Just to clarifya couple of things on your test results. Is the CH achlorine test? Are yourtest results from dip sticks? If so, which brand?Is your water always sohard or are you adding anything to the tank? It'snot necessarily a badthing, I was just checking.Last but not least... how old were themollies?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Friday, October 10, 2008 7:44 AMTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] What ishappening with my fish?!Okay, So I wake up this morning to find one of mytwo mollies dead.There has been nothing wrong in this tank, not ich oranything else.Here are my water stats: NO3 10 NO2 0 GH 300 CH 0 KH 300 PH8.4 Ammonia 0I cannot find the other mollie right now I'm hoping she isstill alive.I could not find any visable signs as to why it died. What ishappening toall my fish? I've never had this much trouble keeping them alivebefore!_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com<http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081009-1, 10/09/2008Tested on: 10/10/2008 8:25:58 AMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008Tested on: 10/10/2008 9:17:16 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31233	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!

In your case, since you already have a running filter system, it should already be cycled so you may not need to do a fishless cycle. How long has it been running on your current tank and is your current tank cycled? If it is, simply fill the new tank, run it for a day or two. Do PWC's on your current tank so the water parameters are very similar between the two tanks, including pH, temperature, etc. When you are ready to make the move, just move the fish and filter at the same time. If you are planning on using your current gravel and decorations, let me know and I'll give you more tips on "cloning" one tank into another. You could search the group for "cloning" and you'll likely find my longer explanation on how I do this, when needed in the past. I need to do a blog article on this subject as it comes up often. If you had two fish, then the biological filtration would have been cycled for two fish. When you added more, it will likely have a mini-cycle so check your ammonia/nitrite levels in the coming days to a week to make sure they do not go over the 1.0ppm level. Do PWC's as needed to keep them in the less-toxic range. On a more serious note, when you have an unexplained fish death, the last thing you should do is go out and buy more fish and add them to the tank. Two reasons... one, we aren't sure what killed the first fish so it would be a good idea to monitor the second fish to make sure it isn't going to come down with something also. The second reason is that ALL new fish purchases should be quarantined to make sure they are healthy so they don't bring even more pathogens into your main tank. Hopefully, you won't have any problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 1:26 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! Well, darn. At the time I had two females but my heater was unplugged so that may have added to it. My plug in is all messed up but I took care of that yesterday. My molly that was left was a very scared fish so I decided she needed atleast somthing in there with her. I went and picked up another female and a male molly. I figured adding the two shouldnt over load the tanks bioload. They are seeming to get alont just great but I did get a snale in the mix aswell. Anyway, I'm adding my water to the 35 today so I will get that started. I can just add fish food to start a cycle correct? My hubby doesnt want ammonia laying around. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:17:16 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! According to my Lifespan Guidehttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan, <Guidehttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan,> Molly's should live foraround 4 years so it doesn't look like it was an old age issue.Do you have a heater in the tank? Does the temp stay consistently at 76F orcould it have been bouncing around from day to night? For tropical fish,it's best to have a consistent temperature. 76F is OK but a little higherwould likely be better although the Mongabay profile on Molly's show atemperature range of 70-82 is OK so 76F would be right in the middle... butconsistency is important. If the temp was bouncing around, that is astressor to the fish and when fish get stressed, they are more likely to getsick from something they would normally handle with no problem.What was your female to male ratio? With livebearers, it's best to have acouple of females for every male to minimize harassment/fighting... or haveall males or all females if you want to avoid too many fry. Even allfemales will likely give birth once or twice even with no males in the tank.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?!Yeah, My temp was 76 F These have been normal range stats for water. I justhad the two mollies in the tank. I got them both about two months ago from alfs they were both in the same tank there as well. They are in my 10 gallonwith a few small plants. My other molly is fine. She is a scaredy cat andhides a lot. I found her before I left this morning though. I am not norhave I ever treated this tank with anything besides a declorniator. I usedmy jungle dipsticks and a master test kit to double check the sticks. Mywater is always hard. I dont know how old the mollies are. This was thelarger one that died though so I'm thinking that may have been the problem.SarahOK. Your water parameters look OK. Is your temp OK too? Are thesenumbersconsistent with your normal water parameters?What size tank do youhave and what other fish? Is your tank heavilyplanted... or why are youhaving trouble finding your other molly? Anypossible predatory fish in yourtank?How long has the tank been set up? Any new fish added recently?Whatmedicines or additives (chemicals, etc.) are you adding?Just to clarifya couple of things on your test results. Is the CH achlorine test? Are yourtest results from dip sticks? If so, which brand?Is your water always sohard or are you adding anything to the tank? It'snot necessarily a badthing, I was just checking.Last but not least... how old were themollies?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Friday, October 10, 2008 7:44 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] What ishappening with my fish?!Okay, So I wake up this morning to find one of mytwo mollies dead.There has been nothing wrong in this tank, not ich oranything else.Here are my water stats: NO3 10 NO2 0 GH 300 CH 0 KH 300 PH8.4 Ammonia 0I cannot find the other mollie right now I'm hoping she isstill alive.I could not find any visable signs as to why it died. What ishappening toall my fish? I've never had this much trouble keeping them alivebefore!_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081009-1, 10/09/2008Tested on: 10/10/2008 8:25:58 AMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008Tested on: 10/10/2008 9:17:16 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 1:51:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 2:22:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31234	From: warrenprint	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Letter Of Introduction

Before I start my "Letter Of Introduction" I'd like to thank Raymond Wetzel & Harry Fisherman for their help and kindness in getting my membership OK'd and off to a good start. Here's a brief summary of where I am now: Many years ago (over 25) I kept tropical fish. I did very well to the extent that I was able to breed Discus, which was then, no easy task. But then we moved out into the country to a very small home. At the time I had 3 100- gallon tanks, 4 55's, and more 20Longs than I can remember. The water here was not good for the fish at least not at that time (straight out of the ground well-water with high mineral content), (I don't know what could be done today that could change that-----I'm hoping you folks will teach me). Everything had to be monitored and the use of a Vortex D-1 (the largest they had back then) was imperative. In short I had to, because of space here; get rid of everything because the time involved to take proper care of the fish was getting out of hand and I could not keep up with it while working full time. Now, on the sunny side of 60, I still miss my old friends and although, my space for them is the same, my time isn't, and one 30- gallon tank or something on that order is on the horizon. I think keeping Tropical Fish is one hobby that you can get out of, but never really leave! At least not for me, I've always had the desire to return. My thinking right now is that the old D-1 will have to be purchased even before the tank. Although I have very limited financial resources, I believe that my first consideration should also be some type of test kit that would be accurate enough to keep a community tank alive but not give cause to placing a second mortgage on our home. Right now we are waiting on some official word from a Testing Company on a chemical workup of our actual water conditions. But I am almost certain that some type of prep work will need to be done in order to insure the health and well-being of the fish kept. You may have noticed that I mentioned nothing about any type of start- up information or articles either with this group or the Internet itself. My reasoning there is simple, I don't believe I have enough background information to even understand what I am reading! So for now and to avoid confusion on my part; as things come up I will ask specific questions here. Things or terms like bio-wheels hold me mystified right now. But then it's like my Dad always taught me: "Son, it's not a sin to be ignorant-----it's only to stay that way"! I'm hoping you folks will help out a "new" ol'timer. bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31235	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Some Books That May Be of Interest . . .

. . . to members of this group. These are all available from the University of California Press, and may be textbooks as well as "normal" books. I am providing just the title and a link for you to follow to find out more about the book. Some of these books are available via Google Books, the listing will have a link to them there. Also, many of these books are now on sale. Try using code 08D8168 for the discount. If that does not work (it should) follow the link to get a discount code. Batzer, Darold P. and Rebecca R. Sharitz, editors Ecology of Freshwater and Estuarine Wetlands http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10296.php Peter B. Moyle Inland Fishes of California http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9299.php Edited by Larry G. Allen, Daniel J. Pondella II, and Michael H. Horn The Ecology of Marine Fishes California and Adjacent Waters http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10513.php Lovell Langstroth and Libby Langstroth A Living Bay The Underwater World of Monterey Bay http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/8342.php David C. Powell A Fascination for Fish Adventures of an Underwater Pioneer http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/8949.php Samuel M. McGinnis Field Guide to Freshwater Fishes of California Revised Edition http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/1837001.php \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31236	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction

Hi Bill, Let me be the first to extend you a welcome. I really think it was Harry though, who enabled your start here, but as previously mentioned I was not about to give up on your joining and trust you can understand the extra measures we need to go through sometimes in ensuring proper memberships. Noticing you use to breed Discus, I too have always enjoyed breeding them -- they give an extra measure of satisfaction when raising their fry, a bit more so than most other Cichlids. With the extra time involved (which you don't have an extra of right now) in breeding and raising them in your present water, I gather you are just going into keeping community fish this time around -- at least for now. Yes, there's something about the tropical fish bug that never leaves you (and you never really leave it), once bitten. Call it an appreciation for nature, first hand -- as that's where it all stems from. As you surmised, a test kit (more correctly, test kitS) will be needed, but as you'll be more particularly monitoring ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH, you may want to look into obtaining a "master" kit -- unless that's what you had in mind. Other water parameters such as hardness are not that imperative to test for regularly, unless you really have problems there, and can be bought as funds permit (might come with some master kits, though). The Vortex diatomaceous earth filters are good (still used today by some aquarists), but there are a number of other fine options out there in you local fish store. I'd advise checking them all out before plunging back into a D-1. I still have mine from at least that long ago (maybe longer) as it was one of the first ones manufactured. I seldom use it anymore, as I find it a real pain in the neck to re-start every time I need to clean it. Not careful with the priming and the powder can be sent into your water column. Many canister filters do a fine job, take a look at them. As for any info needed, don't hesitate to ask us. Better to ask first with anything about this that you're not familiar with (and anything you're already familiar with) than to go ahead and do something wrong, leading to much work and expense to reverse the consequenses if its wrong. In addition to learning here, I'd also advise you pick up a good book or two containing all the latest up-to- date general maintenance procedures. Do not rely on web-sites (I noticed you mentioned "internet" as a source) as anyone can set up their web page proclaiming to be the world's foremost expert on the subject, when in reality they may not know what "H2O" means. BTW -- a bio-wheel is nothing more than that part of a HOB (Hang-On- Back) biological filter that rotates as water spills over it, enriching that water with atmospheric oxygen to be used by the nitrifying bacteria colonizing that main part of this filter. In this way, it enables these bacteria to more efficiently (and the, at greater quantity) convert your nitrogenous waste into (finally) comparatively harmless nitrate. Lots of luck with your renewed acquaintence to fish -- let us know how we can help. Being out of fish now for some time, I don't know if you're familiar with the need for "cycling" your tank first before adding fish, but if not just ask. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "warrenprint" <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Before I start my "Letter Of Introduction" I'd like to thank Raymond > Wetzel & Harry Fisherman for their help and kindness in getting my > membership OK'd and off to a good start. > > Here's a brief summary of where I am now: Many years ago (over 25) I > kept tropical fish. I did very well to the extent that I was able to > breed Discus, which was then, no easy task. But then we moved out > into the country to a very small home. At the time I had 3 100- > gallon tanks, 4 55's, and more 20Longs than I can remember. The > water here was not good for the fish at least not at that time > (straight out of the ground well-water with high mineral content), (I > don't know what could be done today that could change that-----I'm > hoping you folks will teach me). Everything had to be monitored and > the use of a Vortex D-1 (the largest they had back then) was > imperative. In short I had to, because of space here; get rid of > everything because the time involved to take proper care of the fish > was getting out of hand and I could not keep up with it while working > full time. > > Now, on the sunny side of 60, I still miss my old friends and > although, my space for them is the same, my time isn't, and one 30- > gallon tank or something on that order is on the horizon. I think > keeping Tropical Fish is one hobby that you can get out of, but never > really leave! At least not for me, I've always had the desire to > return. > > My thinking right now is that the old D-1 will have to be purchased > even before the tank. Although I have very limited financial > resources, I believe that my first consideration should also be some > type of test kit that would be accurate enough > to keep a community tank alive but not give cause to placing a second > mortgage on our home. Right now we are waiting on some official word > from a Testing Company on a chemical workup of our actual water > conditions. But I am almost certain that some type of prep work will > need to be done in order to insure the health and well-being of the > fish kept. > > You may have noticed that I mentioned nothing about any type of start- > up information or articles either with this group or the Internet > itself. My reasoning there is simple, I don't believe I have enough > background information to even understand what I am reading! So for > now and to avoid confusion on my part; as things come up I will ask > specific questions here. Things or terms like bio-wheels hold me > mystified right now. But then it's like my Dad always taught me: > "Son, it's not a sin to be ignorant-----it's only to stay that way"! > I'm hoping you folks will help out a "new" ol'timer. > > bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31237	From: Alina	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes

So Thursday, my 2 month old tank bloomed with nuisance snails. Water quality was at good levels. Friday night, it spiked ammonia, close to 1.o; nitrates and nitrites were at high levels too. I did 25 % PWC and vaccumed gravel (it wasn't all that dirty, I had done my routine 25% per week, for the past two weeks); this morning, ammonia was .5, nitrates and nitrites still high, so I did another 25%. I've added ammo chips to my filter, as recommended by the pet store. I did it about an hour ago. Water appears cloudy. Ammonia levels are 0 now. Good sign? Bad sign? The stores aquarist suggested that the snails may not have had enough to eat so they're dying off, creating the detritus that led to my ammonia spike. She also suggested I might be going thru a second cycling which some aquariums do. New one on me. Either way, during my cleanings my water was not all that nasty. It had bits at the bottom but was mostly clear. My nitrates currently are somewhere between 0 and 20, and nitrites are between 3.o and 5.o. I have those test strips (I know, I HAVE to get a kit) If these are not down by morning, what should I try? She recommends no more PWC. She suggests adding the good bacteria to the tank. I have some. I fear I'll awake to my fish having fled the tank for their lives. This is my first crisis with my tank, so bear with me. Thanks Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31238	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: ok u guys.......

alright it has been 24hrs at least and i have retested the water in the tank with a little of the aquasafe and the test results were pretty much the same..... so my quistion to all of u who can answer this quistion what kind of fish can i put in my tank???? pH 8-8.3 NO2-<0.3mg/l KH-12 drops GH changed to green and stayed that way NH3&NH4-1.5mg/l i was wanting those little sharks i have been seeing in the pet store is that a possability????? did i mention that all of you totally rock? well you do:) >>>>>kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31239	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction

Hi Bill and welcome to the group. Something that might be of assistance are the two online fish keeping tutorials that I have links to on my blog "A to Z of Fish Keeping" (main blog link in my sig). They are mostly geared for beginners but since you've been out of the hobby for 25 years, so much has changed. These refresher tutorials might be in order. I don't think "The Nitrogen Cycle" was known by man fish keepers 25 years ago and it's a very important part of fish keeping today. Next, besides the numbers that your official water testing determines, it's a good idea to do a 48 hour baseline test on your water. I also have a blog article, "Establishing Your Tap/Source Water Baseline", as the water parameters will often change quite a bit after 24-48 hours of being exposed to air and light. This pertains to "normal" tap water and to well water sometimes more so. This baseline will be the real water parameters that you will be dealing with, not the numbers right out of the tap. Agitation and aeration of this water will speed up the baseline testing even more. You may not have to do anything to your water source for commonly available tropical fish that do well in harder water like it sounds like you may have. There are also simple and inexpensive chemical filtration media that will filter a lot of the impurities out (much more advance than carbon) so one or more of these may be an option instead of a vortex unit or reverse osmosis unit. Speaking of filters, I also have a blog on "Filter Maintenance and Cleaning" which will have a lot of new information about filter systems that are available today compared to 25 years ago. If you don't know any local fish keepers where you could get a good, safe section of their filter media, it might be a good idea to start off "Fishless Cycling" a tank right now which will give you a couple of weeks to check out all the other things that have changed. I have a link to Fishless Cycling near the top of the "A to Z" page. I could give you several more good articles on Fishless Cycling as well if you want to read even more about this process. Come back here and ask lots of question. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of warrenprint Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 3:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Letter Of Introduction Before I start my "Letter Of Introduction" I'd like to thank Raymond Wetzel & Harry Fisherman for their help and kindness in getting my membership OK'd and off to a good start. Here's a brief summary of where I am now: Many years ago (over 25) I kept tropical fish. I did very well to the extent that I was able to breed Discus, which was then, no easy task. But then we moved out into the country to a very small home. At the time I had 3 100- gallon tanks, 4 55's, and more 20Longs than I can remember. The water here was not good for the fish at least not at that time (straight out of the ground well-water with high mineral content), (I don't know what could be done today that could change that-----I'm hoping you folks will teach me). Everything had to be monitored and the use of a Vortex D-1 (the largest they had back then) was imperative. In short I had to, because of space here; get rid of everything because the time involved to take proper care of the fish was getting out of hand and I could not keep up with it while working full time. Now, on the sunny side of 60, I still miss my old friends and although, my space for them is the same, my time isn't, and one 30- gallon tank or something on that order is on the horizon. I think keeping Tropical Fish is one hobby that you can get out of, but never really leave! At least not for me, I've always had the desire to return. My thinking right now is that the old D-1 will have to be purchased even before the tank. Although I have very limited financial resources, I believe that my first consideration should also be some type of test kit that would be accurate enough to keep a community tank alive but not give cause to placing a second mortgage on our home. Right now we are waiting on some official word from a Testing Company on a chemical workup of our actual water conditions. But I am almost certain that some type of prep work will need to be done in order to insure the health and well-being of the fish kept. You may have noticed that I mentioned nothing about any type of start- up information or articles either with this group or the Internet itself. My reasoning there is simple, I don't believe I have enough background information to even understand what I am reading! So for now and to avoid confusion on my part; as things come up I will ask specific questions here. Things or terms like bio-wheels hold me mystified right now. But then it's like my Dad always taught me: "Son, it's not a sin to be ignorant-----it's only to stay that way"! I'm hoping you folks will help out a "new" ol'timer. bill ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 4:04:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 4:21:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31240	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Some Thoughts please...

Hello again everyone. As ive mentioned before, i have 2 clown loach. I realize they may like to be in larger groups and in larger than 40 gallon tanks. I really love these guys. Both of them have amazing color. I would hate to give these guys up, but im starting to think i might have to. I cannot afford a large tank right now. Ultimately i want to get 125 Gallons or more, but that won't happen until im done rebuilding my house. I expect that to last about another year. So i guess my question is, will they be ok for the next year? or should i really just pass them along to someone more able to provide a good home? they are each about 3 inches long now. I also have a behavior question for these guys. They seem to chase eachother around alot, i don't know if its just play or if they are fighting for territory, or if they are maybe a mating pair? Is it possible that these two could harm or kill other fish in my tank? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31241	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes

I presume that you are now seeing a white cloudiness to your water. This would be a result of a "good guy" bacterial bloom to try to handle the new found ammonia and nitrites in your water. You can remove the ammonia chips now, and the cloudiness should disappear on its own in a few days. The snails were probably hitchhikers on any plants you have recently added to your tank in the form of eggs. They hatched, and you had an army of baby snails. Their feeding and, perhaps, some dying, led to your ammonia spike and subsequent nitrite spike. You handled the situation nicely, doing an immediate water change to help dilute the nitrogenous wastes, though I probably would have skipped the ammo chip addition. I'd take what the store's aquarist says with a grain of salt in the future. A tank that has been properly cycled should not undergo a second cycle unless something goes wrong, as it did with your tank. The only time you should see another period of cycling is if you somehow manage to impair the colonies of nitro* bacteria that et the nitrogenous wastes. When you add plants to a tank, they should undergo a potassium permanganate or alum bath to destroy any hitchhikers, such as your snail eggs, before being added to the tank. This is similar to the quarantine period you would give new fish additions. Each plant should then be carefully examined to determine if anything that may not be good for your tank remains. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes So Thursday, my 2 month old tank bloomed with nuisance snails. Water quality was at good levels. Friday night, it spiked ammonia, close to 1.o; nitrates and nitrites were at high levels too. I did 25 % PWC and vaccumed gravel (it wasn't all that dirty, I had done my routine 25% per week, for the past two weeks); this morning, ammonia was .5, nitrates and nitrites still high, so I did another 25%. I've added ammo chips to my filter, as recommended by the pet store. I did it about an hour ago. Water appears cloudy. Ammonia levels are 0 now. Good sign? Bad sign? The stores aquarist suggested that the snails may not have had enough to eat so they're dying off, creating the detritus that led to my ammonia spike. She also suggested I might be going thru a second cycling which some aquariums do. New one on me. Either way, during my cleanings my water was not all that nasty. It had bits at the bottom but was mostly clear. My nitrates currently are somewhere between 0 and 20, and nitrites are between 3.o and 5.o. I have those test strips (I know, I HAVE to get a kit) If these are not down by morning, what should I try? She recommends no more PWC. She suggests adding the good bacteria to the tank. I have some. I fear I'll awake to my fish having fled the tank for their lives. This is my first crisis with my tank, so bear with me. Thanks Alina ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31242	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes

ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH... we need to come up with a suitable and sufficient punishment for folks that listen to "the pet store employee" instead of checking with a real fish keeper first. Tar and feathering might be a bit harsh... but maybe 10 lashes with a wet noodle would be suitable. ;-) (This can be self administered.. lol) The ammo-chips (Zeolite) will only set your nitrogen cycle back and starve off the good nitrifying bacteria so you'll constantly have issues if you ever stop using the ammo-chips or if you have to remove them for recharging or if you ever have to add salt to your tank. Yes, they work by sucking up the ammonia but they also starve your good bacteria by sucking up all the ammonia so they are OK for an emergency like a power outage or other extreme but there is no good reason to run zeolite in a filter system for everyday issues or things like this which can be controlled by PWC's and finding the cause and fixing it. Did you happen to change out your filter cartridge prior to the ammonia spike? If not that, then it very well could be the increased bioload due to a large increase in snails. I hope you didn't add any chemicals to kill the snails... I know pet store employees are infamous for giving that crappy advice too! The normal treatment for high nitrites is salt in the tank but you can't do that because salt will cause the zeolite to start releasing the sucked up ammonia. If it was me, I'd remove the zeolite and start doing a series of 25% PWC's, one every hour or two, as needed to keep the ammonia and/or nitrites at or below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to protect against nitrite poisoning and replace this pinch of salt with each PWC. If your fish start to show symptoms of nitrite poisoning (not likely yet), then you would have to increase the amount of salt but start off with a pinch per 10G. Start manually removing the snails that you can pick out since that is the only major change in your tank that you've mentioned. Use a snail trap for those you can't easily pick off... a slice of cucumber on the bottom (after lights out), in a corner will work and you can simply pick it up each morning and trash it. If you don't want to touch a piece of cucumber covered in snails, then put it on a plastic container cover on the bottom so you can pick it up by the cover to trash the slice of cuke. Check around for a dead fish or plant and remove it/them, if found. The good nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony size every 24-48 hours so if you didn't do something that killed them off completely (did you add any kinds of meds to the tank that you didn't mention?), this should all pass in the next day or two. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes So Thursday, my 2 month old tank bloomed with nuisance snails. Water quality was at good levels. Friday night, it spiked ammonia, close to 1.o; nitrates and nitrites were at high levels too. I did 25 % PWC and vaccumed gravel (it wasn't all that dirty, I had done my routine 25% per week, for the past two weeks); this morning, ammonia was .5, nitrates and nitrites still high, so I did another 25%. I've added ammo chips to my filter, as recommended by the pet store. I did it about an hour ago. Water appears cloudy. Ammonia levels are 0 now. Good sign? Bad sign? The stores aquarist suggested that the snails may not have had enough to eat so they're dying off, creating the detritus that led to my ammonia spike. She also suggested I might be going thru a second cycling which some aquariums do. New one on me. Either way, during my cleanings my water was not all that nasty. It had bits at the bottom but was mostly clear. My nitrates currently are somewhere between 0 and 20, and nitrites are between 3.o and 5.o. I have those test strips (I know, I HAVE to get a kit) If these are not down by morning, what should I try? She recommends no more PWC. She suggests adding the good bacteria to the tank. I have some. I fear I'll awake to my fish having fled the tank for their lives. This is my first crisis with my tank, so bear with me. Thanks Alina ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 6:28:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 6:59:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31243	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......

Kate, If I am reading your current water parameter test results correctly, do not add any fish to this tank at this time, since there seems to be quite a change (unless you made a typo). You're saying here that the test results were pretty much the same after retesting it. I don't see that as such when you earlier stated that your NH3/NH4+ tested out as 0.0 mg/L. I'm seeing your present test results for this reading out as 1.5 mg/L; quite a jump if this is what you now have, and most of it at this pH is free ammonia (NH3). I don't see where you've ever given your temperature, but given one at an average 77 o, which many aquariums are maintained at, your pH 8.3 would be getting dangerous at 0.2 mg/L (at pH 8.0 -- 0.4 mg/L). Am I reading something wrong in your quotes below, or is your ammonia rising? If this is the case. I'd recommend doing some partial water changes to reduce this level, using Prime instead to convert your excess ammonia to ammonium (Aqua Safe will not do this). On the Sharks, when you're ready for fish, I'm only presuming you're referring to Red-Tail Sharks (correct me if I'm wrong). There are a number of other species of Sharks, but you haven't stated a preference. Red-Tail Sharks are quite territorial; they will first fight with any other Red-Tail Shark you put in the same tank, but additionally, they may behave the same towards your other fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cherrystix81" <cherrystix81@...> wrote: > > alright it has been 24hrs at least and i have retested the water in the > tank with a little of the aquasafe and the test results were pretty > much the same..... > so my quistion to all of u who can answer this quistion what kind of > fish can i put in my tank???? > pH 8-8.3 > NO2-<0.3mg/l > KH-12 drops > GH changed to green and stayed that way > NH3&NH4-1.5mg/l > > i was wanting those little sharks i have been seeing in the pet store > is that a possability????? > > did i mention that all of you totally rock? well you do:) > >>>>>kate >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31244	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......

Tell us about the GH levels again. If I recall correctly, when you first tested it, it took some extreme number of drops to get a result. How many drops this time? You just say "changed to green and stayed that way". What is your water source again? Public utility or well? You started a new thread with this email so your prior thread isn't shown. It's best to keep your thread going when you add new info so we can follow things better... or copy/paste info from your previous thread. I use email to read the new messages and reply so my replies include the info from the thread so others can read down from the bottom, up, to see what is happening. Many of those "little sharks" are not suitable for many tanks as they grow into BIG sharks (or rather catfish or other fish since they aren't really sharks). You need to find out the species or at least the common name and give us that (as well as your tank size). Another good thing to do is check out the species profile on a reputable website. I strongly suggest http://fish.mongabay.com as a very thorough resource for fish profiles. One of the good things about Mongabay profiles is the section called SC - Suggested Companions - which will give you info on suitable tank mates for your fish. If the profile isn't listed there, then there are many other good website resources but check out here first since there are also many BAD website resources out there. I do have a page on my blog that lists many of the reputable websites. For some fish like catfish, cichlids, loaches, etc., there are some specialty websites that are good resources that have profiles where Mongabay may not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cherrystix81 Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ok u guys....... alright it has been 24hrs at least and i have retested the water in the tank with a little of the aquasafe and the test results were pretty much the same..... so my quistion to all of u who can answer this quistion what kind of fish can i put in my tank???? pH 8-8.3 NO2-<0.3mg/l KH-12 drops GH changed to green and stayed that way NH3&NH4-1.5mg/l i was wanting those little sharks i have been seeing in the pet store is that a possability????? did i mention that all of you totally rock? well you do:) >>>>>kate _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 7:17:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31245	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes

Alina, I'll only address your water changing necessities here, as both \\Steve// and Lenny have already made you aware of the folly (except as no other alternative) of trying to use AmmoChips as a means to lower your ammonia when it has spiked as it will lead to beneficial bacteria starvation. If its removed from your filter as the ammonia level retreats, but is still at higher than normal levels, it would be safe to use -- but not as an ongoing fix for this problem. Despite your local fish store recommending not to perform any more water changes, this is exactly what you must do, as Lenny points out. I have no idea why she recommended this to you, aside from having the Ammo Chips take over ammonia removal, but it needs to be done -- at the rate already recommended. If you are receiving chloramine in your tap water, these water changes will add to your ammonia level -- for that reason, you must use Prime to convert this ammonia to ammonium when making these partial water changes. Amquel and Ammo-Lock will also convert this, but they don't leave it readily available for use by nitrifying bacteria and therefore they should not be used in a spiking tank in which the cycle has been interrupted. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > So Thursday, my 2 month old tank bloomed with nuisance snails. Water > quality was at good levels. Friday night, it spiked ammonia, close to > 1.o; nitrates and nitrites were at high levels too. > > I did 25 % PWC and vaccumed gravel (it wasn't all that dirty, I had > done my routine 25% per week, for the past two weeks); this morning, > ammonia was .5, nitrates and nitrites still high, so I did another > 25%. > > I've added ammo chips to my filter, as recommended by the pet store. > I did it about an hour ago. Water appears cloudy. Ammonia levels are > 0 now. Good sign? Bad sign? > > The stores aquarist suggested that the snails may not have had enough > to eat so they're dying off, creating the detritus that led to my > ammonia spike. She also suggested I might be going thru a second > cycling which some aquariums do. New one on me. Either way, during my > cleanings my water was not all that nasty. It had bits at the bottom > but was mostly clear. > > My nitrates currently are somewhere between 0 and 20, and nitrites > are between 3.o and 5.o. I have those test strips (I know, I HAVE to > get a kit) > > If these are not down by morning, what should I try? She recommends > no more PWC. She suggests adding the good bacteria to the tank. I > have some. > > I fear I'll awake to my fish having fled the tank for their lives. > This is my first crisis with my tank, so bear with me. > > Thanks > Alina >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Some Thoughts please...

As long as you will definitely be getting a BIG tank, then you should be OK for the next year. What other fish bioload do you have in the 40G? If you don't have any or many other fish, you could and should get at least a third fish although your two seem to be doing OK. Quite often, without a shoal, the lone fish will become quite reclusive so it's good that your two are "playing". They can be quite comical, probably one of the reasons for their name "Clown". ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Some Thoughts please... Hello again everyone. As ive mentioned before, i have 2 clown loach. I realize they may like to be in larger groups and in larger than 40 gallon tanks. I really love these guys. Both of them have amazing color. I would hate to give these guys up, but im starting to think i might have to. I cannot afford a large tank right now. Ultimately i want to get 125 Gallons or more, but that won't happen until im done rebuilding my house. I expect that to last about another year. So i guess my question is, will they be ok for the next year? or should i really just pass them along to someone more able to provide a good home? they are each about 3 inches long now. I also have a behavior question for these guys. They seem to chase eachother around alot, i don't know if its just play or if they are fighting for territory, or if they are maybe a mating pair? Is it possible that these two could harm or kill other fish in my tank? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 6:28:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 7:22:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31247	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Some Thoughts please...

Yea. i do enjoy watching them I have about 10 fish in my 40 not counting the loach. most are very small. Estimated size of the other fish all together are about 14 - 16 inches. On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > As long as you will definitely be getting a BIG tank, then you should be > OK > for the next year. What other fish bioload do you have in the 40G? If you > don't have any or many other fish, you could and should get at least a > third > fish although your two seem to be doing OK. Quite often, without a shoal, > the lone fish will become quite reclusive so it's good that your two are > "playing". They can be quite comical, probably one of the reasons for their > name "Clown". ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 6:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Some Thoughts please... > > Hello again everyone. As ive mentioned before, i have 2 clown loach. I > realize they may like to be in larger groups and in larger than 40 gallon > tanks. I really love these guys. Both of them have amazing color. I would > hate to give these guys up, but im starting to think i might have to. I > cannot afford a large tank right now. Ultimately i want to get 125 Gallons > or more, but that won't happen until im done rebuilding my house. I expect > that to last about another year. So i guess my question is, will they be ok > for the next year? or should i really just pass them along to someone more > able to provide a good home? they are each about 3 inches long now. > > I also have a behavior question for these guys. They seem to chase > eachother > around alot, i don't know if its just play or if they are fighting for > territory, or if they are maybe a mating pair? Is it possible that these > two > could harm or kill other fish in my tank? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/11/2008 6:28:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/11/2008 7:22:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31248	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Some Thoughts please...

The main thing you will have to do is frequent 25% PWC's (at least one a week, maybe two or more as the fish grow).. even if your test results seem OK as you will need to constantly remove/dilute the hormonal levels (which we can't test for) in the tank to accommodate the growing fish so they will think they are in a bigger tank. It would also be good to run something like Purigen as a chemical filtration media since it will do a better job of absorbing DOC's compared to carbon. All of these things aren't normally needed but since you are trying to cram a heavy bioload of fish for a year, it will be necessary if you don't want to permanently stunt your fish or cause a higher likelihood of illness. And remember, it's not the current size of the fish that matter, it's their expected adult size that you should account for when determining a needed tank size. If your other fish are also BIG fish, then even the 125 may not be a big enough plan. For example if your other 10 fish are 1" or 2" Oscars (which grow to 12"+), you would need a 1,000 gallon tank to house them all long term... and even that might not be large enough. Fish over 3" as adults need much more water volume per inch than the often tossed around 1 gallon per inch (fish killing) rule. I have a long article on my blog with a simple set of guidelines to do away with the 1" fish-killing rule. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 7:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Some Thoughts please... Yea. i do enjoy watching them I have about 10 fish in my 40 not counting the loach. most are very small. Estimated size of the other fish all together are about 14 - 16 inches. On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > As long as you will definitely be getting a BIG tank, then you should > be OK for the next year. What other fish bioload do you have in the > 40G? If you don't have any or many other fish, you could and should > get at least a third fish although your two seem to be doing OK. Quite > often, without a shoal, the lone fish will become quite reclusive so > it's good that your two are "playing". They can be quite comical, > probably one of the reasons for their name "Clown". ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 6:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Some Thoughts please... > > Hello again everyone. As ive mentioned before, i have 2 clown loach. I > realize they may like to be in larger groups and in larger than 40 > gallon tanks. I really love these guys. Both of them have amazing > color. I would hate to give these guys up, but im starting to think i > might have to. I cannot afford a large tank right now. Ultimately i > want to get 125 Gallons or more, but that won't happen until im done > rebuilding my house. I expect that to last about another year. So i > guess my question is, will they be ok for the next year? or should i > really just pass them along to someone more able to provide a good home? they are each about 3 inches long now. > > I also have a behavior question for these guys. They seem to chase > eachother around alot, i don't know if its just play or if they are > fighting for territory, or if they are maybe a mating pair? Is it > possible that these two could harm or kill other fish in my tank? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > 6:28:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > 7:22:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 8:09:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 8:31:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31249	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......

sorry bout that. i wasent sure on water temp so i have had it set on 74f since i set up again yesterday.......what i meant by the GH level i had added two drops and it changed to green and stayed that way. it did not start at all red so i stopped after 15 drops........my water source is well........and here is a copy of the last feed before i started a new topic ...oh and i am looking into that website.>>>>> <<well ummm kate here. i think i may have found my problem. > so i was like cleaning out the tank when i noticed bits and pieces in > my tank. now i knew i had cleaned everything properly, but didnt > understand why until i noticed a starfish.... ....it had been > deteriorating in the tank. i did not know it would do that!!!!!!!! > so i truly am an amatuer:( but now i know how imprtant it is to have an > emergency tank setup around the house. i think i will get a 5g or > something small. > ok ok now i did some water testing on the water in my house. and i am > sharing this cause i need ur help....boy do i. > so....... PH @ 8.3 > NH3 NH4 @.0mg/l > NO2 nitrite <.3mg/l > GH @ over 40 drops and didnt even change color > KH @ 12 drops and changed immedietely. > thnx u guys and yeah i know im a doofus but i didnt think the starfish > would hurt i mean it looked really cool in the tank...ah man what a day. > i am about done setting up my tank i just need to add the water again. > this time i wont add chemicals, i wont be scared of ph, and i will > listen to my peers. :) >>>>>>kate>> man i feel like a total newbie. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Tell us about the GH levels again. If I recall correctly, when you first > tested it, it took some extreme number of drops to get a result. How many > drops this time? You just say "changed to green and stayed that way". > > What is your water source again? Public utility or well? > > You started a new thread with this email so your prior thread isn't shown. > It's best to keep your thread going when you add new info so we can follow > things better... or copy/paste info from your previous thread. I use email > to read the new messages and reply so my replies include the info from the > thread so others can read down from the bottom, up, to see what is > happening. > > Many of those "little sharks" are not suitable for many tanks as they grow > into BIG sharks (or rather catfish or other fish since they aren't really > sharks). You need to find out the species or at least the common name and > give us that (as well as your tank size). > > Another good thing to do is check out the species profile on a reputable > website. I strongly suggest http://fish.mongabay.com as a very thorough > resource for fish profiles. One of the good things about Mongabay profiles > is the section called SC - Suggested Companions - which will give you info > on suitable tank mates for your fish. If the profile isn't listed there, > then there are many other good website resources but check out here first > since there are also many BAD website resources out there. I do have a page > on my blog that lists many of the reputable websites. For some fish like > catfish, cichlids, loaches, etc., there are some specialty websites that are > good resources that have profiles where Mongabay may not. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cherrystix81 > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] ok u guys....... > > alright it has been 24hrs at least and i have retested the water in the tank > with a little of the aquasafe and the test results were pretty much the > same..... > so my quistion to all of u who can answer this quistion what kind of fish > can i put in my tank???? > pH 8-8.3 > NO2-<0.3mg/l > KH-12 drops > GH changed to green and stayed that way > NH3&NH4-1.5mg/l > > i was wanting those little sharks i have been seeing in the pet store is > that a possability????? > > did i mention that all of you totally rock? well you do:) > >>>>>kate > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/11/2008 7:17:49 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31250	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Reasons to Read Your Water Quality Report

I read my Annual Drinking Water Quality Report and was reminded of a few things. I am going to point out a few things in my report so you can look for them in yours. Obviously, or maybe not so, this is meant for those who get their water from a public source and not those who have a well, though those who do have a well should get a water testing every so often. Early on they cite the sources for water that they deliver to your tap. In my case, there are several: 2 surface water sources--a river and a reservoir The above are augmented by other sources in three states through a shared water agreement A neighboring county's reservoir fills our reservoir when it gets low, and ours fills theirs when it is low Water is purchased from a neighboring county and is delivered already treated Confusing, no? And, to top it off, one never knows where the water is coming from. To find out about the water in the neighboring county that is purchased, I need to read their water report as well. Other water sources that may be used are not named, so it means we are in the dark for the quality in water coming from them, when it comes from them. To add to the guessing game, water purchased from the neighboring county is treated with chloramines, the water from our utility is not used throughout the year. At certain times, chlorine will be used and at other times chloramines. None of this is new to me any longer. It has been this way since I moved down here and actually had to pay for water for the second time in my life. I did live for w while in a town where there was a public water supply, and even though there was a well on the property, I could not use it because it would be "dangerous" to do so. I never did dig out the head and put a pump to it, but I would bet it was probably better than what the town gave us. You also probably want to pay attention to the metals that are listed, copper is one, to ensure they stay at low levels if they are present at all. An interesting tidbit that was thrown in to the report was a comparison. They list 1 ppb (parts per billion) is equal to 1 minute in two years, or 1 second in 11.5 days. They also say 1 ppb is equal to one pancake in a stack 4 miles high. Now, I guess that is what you call a LONG stack <g>. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31251	From: Chris	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: Reasons to Read Your Water Quality Report

Wow! I would be chowing down on that pancake stack. I hope it has blue berries! :) Sounds yummy. Maybe the stack could be an assortment of blue berry, chocolate chip, and a mix of both in butter milk pancakes *big grin!*.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31252	From: Alina	Date: 10/11/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes

ARRGh, I knew I was going to get scolded! Believe me, I took the advice out of sheer panic that my poor fish were doomed....It was a moment of weakness!:-) Ok, ditch the chips, pray for blooms. Got it. On the snail front, after two cleanings I don't see any. And NO! I did not add any other chemicals. Do you take me for a complete newbie. I have a WHOLE two months of experience now, thankeeverymuch. I had changed my filter cartridge, again one of my newbie mistakes about three and half weeks ago. I did not have any issues following that. The only thing that has changed was the appearance of the snails (which by the way, I no longer feel all that sorry for, and was none too sad when a few were sucked away with my aquarium funk)I have plucked a few others out of the tank too. I'll live with them, I guess and try to control as best I can with cleaning and picking. Thanks to all who responded. Also, should I hold off on feeding the fish? I have not fed them today. Let's call it at 24 hour fast. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH... we need to come up with a suitable and sufficient > punishment for folks that listen to "the pet store employee" instead of > checking with a real fish keeper first. Tar and feathering might be a bit > harsh... but maybe 10 lashes with a wet noodle would be suitable. ;- ) (This > can be self administered.. lol) > > The ammo-chips (Zeolite) will only set your nitrogen cycle back and starve > off the good nitrifying bacteria so you'll constantly have issues if you > ever stop using the ammo-chips or if you have to remove them for recharging > or if you ever have to add salt to your tank. Yes, they work by sucking up > the ammonia but they also starve your good bacteria by sucking up all the > ammonia so they are OK for an emergency like a power outage or other extreme > but there is no good reason to run zeolite in a filter system for everyday > issues or things like this which can be controlled by PWC's and finding the > cause and fixing it. > > Did you happen to change out your filter cartridge prior to the ammonia > spike? If not that, then it very well could be the increased bioload due to > a large increase in snails. I hope you didn't add any chemicals to kill the > snails... I know pet store employees are infamous for giving that crappy > advice too! > > The normal treatment for high nitrites is salt in the tank but you can't do > that because salt will cause the zeolite to start releasing the sucked up > ammonia. > > If it was me, I'd remove the zeolite and start doing a series of 25% PWC's, > one every hour or two, as needed to keep the ammonia and/or nitrites at or > below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to protect against nitrite > poisoning and replace this pinch of salt with each PWC. If your fish start > to show symptoms of nitrite poisoning (not likely yet), then you would have > to increase the amount of salt but start off with a pinch per 10G. > > Start manually removing the snails that you can pick out since that is the > only major change in your tank that you've mentioned. Use a snail trap for > those you can't easily pick off... a slice of cucumber on the bottom (after > lights out), in a corner will work and you can simply pick it up each > morning and trash it. If you don't want to touch a piece of cucumber > covered in snails, then put it on a plastic container cover on the bottom so > you can pick it up by the cover to trash the slice of cuke. > > Check around for a dead fish or plant and remove it/them, if found. > > The good nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony size every > 24-48 hours so if you didn't do something that killed them off completely > (did you add any kinds of meds to the tank that you didn't mention?), this > should all pass in the next day or two. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] It's really becoming a bad week......snails and > spikes > > > So Thursday, my 2 month old tank bloomed with nuisance snails. Water quality > was at good levels. Friday night, it spiked ammonia, close to 1.o; nitrates > and nitrites were at high levels too. > > I did 25 % PWC and vaccumed gravel (it wasn't all that dirty, I had done my > routine 25% per week, for the past two weeks); this morning, ammonia was .5, > nitrates and nitrites still high, so I did another 25%. > > I've added ammo chips to my filter, as recommended by the pet store. > I did it about an hour ago. Water appears cloudy. Ammonia levels are 0 now. > Good sign? Bad sign? > > The stores aquarist suggested that the snails may not have had enough to eat > so they're dying off, creating the detritus that led to my ammonia spike. > She also suggested I might be going thru a second cycling which some > aquariums do. New one on me. Either way, during my cleanings my water was > not all that nasty. It had bits at the bottom but was mostly clear. > > My nitrates currently are somewhere between 0 and 20, and nitrites are > between 3.o and 5.o. I have those test strips (I know, I HAVE to get a kit) > > If these are not down by morning, what should I try? She recommends no more > PWC. She suggests adding the good bacteria to the tank. I have some. > > I fear I'll awake to my fish having fled the tank for their lives. > This is my first crisis with my tank, so bear with me. > > Thanks > Alina > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/11/2008 6:28:14 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/11/2008 6:59:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes

I don't believe in fasting fish... especially younger fish. I guess a grown fish could be fasted for a day without much of a problem but for younger fish, I usually make the analogy to our kids since most people have younger fish in their newly set up tanks. If your baby was pooping their diaper and it was inconvenient to you to have to change the diaper, would you stop feeding it for a day just so you don't have to change the diaper? That's comparable to not feeding the fish because you are having cycling issues (poop and pee in the tank). Just do the PWC's as needed (just like the diaper changes) and learn another life/fish-keeping lesson... in your case, pre-treat or quarantine everything before putting it in your tank. And keep working on removing them snails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes ARRGh, I knew I was going to get scolded! Believe me, I took the advice out of sheer panic that my poor fish were doomed....It was a moment of weakness!:-) Ok, ditch the chips, pray for blooms. Got it. On the snail front, after two cleanings I don't see any. And NO! I did not add any other chemicals. Do you take me for a complete newbie. I have a WHOLE two months of experience now, thankeeverymuch. I had changed my filter cartridge, again one of my newbie mistakes about three and half weeks ago. I did not have any issues following that. The only thing that has changed was the appearance of the snails (which by the way, I no longer feel all that sorry for, and was none too sad when a few were sucked away with my aquarium funk)I have plucked a few others out of the tank too. I'll live with them, I guess and try to control as best I can with cleaning and picking. Thanks to all who responded. Also, should I hold off on feeding the fish? I have not fed them today. Let's call it at 24 hour fast. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH... we need to come up with a suitable and sufficient > punishment for folks that listen to "the pet store employee" instead of > checking with a real fish keeper first. Tar and feathering might be a bit > harsh... but maybe 10 lashes with a wet noodle would be suitable. ;- ) (This > can be self administered.. lol) > > The ammo-chips (Zeolite) will only set your nitrogen cycle back and starve > off the good nitrifying bacteria so you'll constantly have issues if you > ever stop using the ammo-chips or if you have to remove them for recharging > or if you ever have to add salt to your tank. Yes, they work by sucking up > the ammonia but they also starve your good bacteria by sucking up all the > ammonia so they are OK for an emergency like a power outage or other extreme > but there is no good reason to run zeolite in a filter system for everyday > issues or things like this which can be controlled by PWC's and finding the > cause and fixing it. > > Did you happen to change out your filter cartridge prior to the ammonia > spike? If not that, then it very well could be the increased bioload due to > a large increase in snails. I hope you didn't add any chemicals to kill the > snails... I know pet store employees are infamous for giving that crappy > advice too! > > The normal treatment for high nitrites is salt in the tank but you can't do > that because salt will cause the zeolite to start releasing the sucked up > ammonia. > > If it was me, I'd remove the zeolite and start doing a series of 25% PWC's, > one every hour or two, as needed to keep the ammonia and/or nitrites at or > below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to protect against nitrite > poisoning and replace this pinch of salt with each PWC. If your fish start > to show symptoms of nitrite poisoning (not likely yet), then you would have > to increase the amount of salt but start off with a pinch per 10G. > > Start manually removing the snails that you can pick out since that is the > only major change in your tank that you've mentioned. Use a snail trap for > those you can't easily pick off... a slice of cucumber on the bottom (after > lights out), in a corner will work and you can simply pick it up each > morning and trash it. If you don't want to touch a piece of cucumber > covered in snails, then put it on a plastic container cover on the bottom so > you can pick it up by the cover to trash the slice of cuke. > > Check around for a dead fish or plant and remove it/them, if found. > > The good nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony size every > 24-48 hours so if you didn't do something that killed them off completely > (did you add any kinds of meds to the tank that you didn't mention?), this > should all pass in the next day or two. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] It's really becoming a bad week......snails and > spikes > > > So Thursday, my 2 month old tank bloomed with nuisance snails. Water quality > was at good levels. Friday night, it spiked ammonia, close to 1.o; nitrates > and nitrites were at high levels too. > > I did 25 % PWC and vaccumed gravel (it wasn't all that dirty, I had done my > routine 25% per week, for the past two weeks); this morning, ammonia was .5, > nitrates and nitrites still high, so I did another 25%. > > I've added ammo chips to my filter, as recommended by the pet store. > I did it about an hour ago. Water appears cloudy. Ammonia levels are 0 now. > Good sign? Bad sign? > > The stores aquarist suggested that the snails may not have had enough to eat > so they're dying off, creating the detritus that led to my ammonia spike. > She also suggested I might be going thru a second cycling which some > aquariums do. New one on me. Either way, during my cleanings my water was > not all that nasty. It had bits at the bottom but was mostly clear. > > My nitrates currently are somewhere between 0 and 20, and nitrites are > between 3.o and 5.o. I have those test strips (I know, I HAVE to get a kit) > > If these are not down by morning, what should I try? She recommends no more > PWC. She suggests adding the good bacteria to the tank. I have some. > > I fear I'll awake to my fish having fled the tank for their lives. > This is my first crisis with my tank, so bear with me. > > Thanks > Alina > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > 6:28:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > 6:59:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 11:53:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 3:29:43 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31254	From: bill1433	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction

Your mail hit on my biggest problems!� No fish stores to speak of within 50 miles or so and so it follows that also no Tropical Fish Accessories either.� Most or nearly all of my purchases will most probably be done on line.� As for the fish themselves; I don�t know how we could solve that problem, you can�t mail fish � On the Discus, I must tell the truth Ray------------------luck.� The fish did the work and I got the gravy.� The were excellent parents with a great tolerance toward me.� As you already know, Discus love eating their own fry and will do so any time they are upset or threatened.� I found that if they tolerate their owners hands being in the tank and do not shown stress or hide (mine would actually come up nibble on my arm at times) then you have and excellent chance with them.� When I noticed they were showing spawning signs they were given their own 55 gallon tank. All I did was 25% water changes in the fry & parents tank every few days for cleanliness.� No filters running at all just bare tanks and air stones for circulation and an old piece of sidewalk slate to spawn on.� Baby brine when they were ready, regular frozen size, and finally onto an old beef-heart homemade food that I lost the recipe for.� Tank temp was maintained at around 84 degrees.� At this point in time I had plenty of tanks and when they fry were ready to be separted from their parents they would be moved according to their size and growth rate.� I learned with all fish, very early on, that the big secret to keeping and receiving big healthy fish was plenty of room and lots of fresh water changes.� After they get a good start then into a community tank setting. � � On the Vortex diatomaceous earth filters; I am gathering from your mail that there are better/ easier methods today?� Yes, Ray I remember those crazy Diatom start-ups! Maybe this is along the lines of those bio-wheels I asked about? � Also, at the risk of raising the �wrath� of yourself and the group, I should tell you that I WAS one of those people that would never, ever setup a tank without under gravel filtration and later, when they became available, the power heads.� Now I realize that may now be �old world� thinking but then that�s why I�m here, to learn the latest and the greatest. � Also, thanks to Lenny for the reading list.� I will be going over there shortly.� Yes, I have heard of �cycling� but we never used test-kits or anything to monitor just a goodly amount of old gravel from a good well established tank and you were off. We will be re-visiting this point in upcoming posts I�m sure. � Bill � � � � � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31255	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: kribs vs. corys

29 gallon tank my female kribensis is a nightmare to my corys. She won't even let them eat peacefully what can I do to ease this problem? She killed the two ghost shrimp that I had in the tank. She attacks the pencilfish but, I would like to breed these fish now I know that they are aggressive when protecting their young but she is not breeding now.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31256	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction

Actually, you can buy fish online and they can be mailed to you although shipping can be expensive if only buying a few fish. There are many private sellers on http://www.AquaBid.com (like an eBay but for aquatic stuff). You can also buy live fish from many, many other online retailers. Here are a few that I've always heard good things about. http://www.LiveAquaria.com (which is the sister site to http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com which sells dry goods for all pets.. both are very reputable) http://www.davesfish.com/ http://www.franksaquarium.com/nanofish.htm http://unclenedsfishfactory.com/ http://www.goldfishnet.com/home.asp Some other dry good online sources that I have used: http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com http://www.BigAlsOnline.com http://www.MarineDepot.com http://www.ThatFishPlace.com (they also sell live fish http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/expand_Aquatic/248/category.web but I haven't really heard much about that part of their business) Last but not least... http://www.PetsMart.com I'm sure there are many, many other reputable resources but these are the ones I feel comfortable promoting. I'm betting you can find that "old beef heart home-made recipe" somewhere online if you ever need it (or at least something very similar to it). http://www.Google.com is the best search engine right now although there are others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Your mail hit on my biggest problems! No fish stores to speak of within 50 miles or so and so it follows that also no Tropical Fish Accessories either. Most or nearly all of my purchases will most probably be done on line. As for the fish themselves; I don’t know how we could solve that problem, you can’t mail fish On the Discus, I must tell the truth Ray------------------luck. The fish did the work and I got the gravy. The were excellent parents with a great tolerance toward me. As you already know, Discus love eating their own fry and will do so any time they are upset or threatened. I found that if they tolerate their owners hands being in the tank and do not shown stress or hide (mine would actually come up nibble on my arm at times) then you have and excellent chance with them. When I noticed they were showing spawning signs they were given their own 55 gallon tank. All I did was 25% water changes in the fry & parents tank every few days for cleanliness. No filters running at all just bare tanks and air stones for circulation and an old piece of sidewalk slate to spawn on. Baby brine when they were ready, regular frozen size, and finally onto an old beef-heart homemade food that I lost the recipe for. Tank temp was maintained at around 84 degrees. At this point in time I had plenty of tanks and when they fry were ready to be separted from their parents they would be moved according to their size and growth rate. I learned with all fish, very early on, that the big secret to keeping and receiving big healthy fish was plenty of room and lots of fresh water changes. After they get a good start then into a community tank setting. On the Vortex diatomaceous earth filters; I am gathering from your mail that there are better/ easier methods today? Yes, Ray I remember those crazy Diatom start-ups! Maybe this is along the lines of those bio-wheels I asked about? Also, at the risk of raising the “wrath” of yourself and the group, I should tell you that I WAS one of those people that would never, ever setup a tank without under gravel filtration and later, when they became available, the power heads. Now I realize that may now be “old world” thinking but then that’s why I’m here, to learn the latest and the greatest. Also, thanks to Lenny for the reading list. I will be going over there shortly. Yes, I have heard of “cycling” but we never used test-kits or anything to monitor just a goodly amount of old gravel from a good well established tank and you were off. We will be re-visiting this point in upcoming posts I’m sure. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 10:51:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 11:08:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31257	From: harry perry	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fish sources

Google anubiasdesign. Hundreds of folks trust this guy. His name is Mark. I've bought from him several times, never a problem. He is also an officer of the International Betta Conference. I'm am not affiliated in any way. He is just a trusted source. Harry --- On Sun, 10/12/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 11:40 AM Your mail hit on my biggest problems!� No fish stores to speak of within 50 miles or so and so it follows that also no Tropical Fish Accessories either.� Most or nearly all of my purchases will most probably be done on line.� As for the fish themselves; I don�t know how we could solve that problem, you can�t mail fish � On the Discus, I must tell the truth Ray------------------luck.� The fish did the work and I got the gravy.� The were excellent parents with a great tolerance toward me.� As you already know, Discus love eating their own fry and will do so any time they are upset or threatened.� I found that if they tolerate their owners hands being in the tank and do not shown stress or hide (mine would actually come up nibble on my arm at times) then you have and excellent chance with them.� When I noticed they were showing spawning signs they were given their own 55 gallon tank. All I did was 25% water changes in the fry & parents tank every few days for cleanliness.� No filters running at all just bare tanks and air stones for circulation and an old piece of sidewalk slate to spawn on.� Baby brine when they were ready, regular frozen size, and finally onto an old beef-heart homemade food that I lost the recipe for.� Tank temp was maintained at around 84 degrees.� At this point in time I had plenty of tanks and when they fry were ready to be separted from their parents they would be moved according to their size and growth rate.� I learned with all fish, very early on, that the big secret to keeping and receiving big healthy fish was plenty of room and lots of fresh water changes.� After they get a good start then into a community tank setting. � � On the Vortex diatomaceous earth filters; I am gathering from your mail that there are better/ easier methods today?� Yes, Ray I remember those crazy Diatom start-ups! Maybe this is along the lines of those bio-wheels I asked about? � Also, at the risk of raising the �wrath� of yourself and the group, I should tell you that I WAS one of those people that would never, ever setup a tank without under gravel filtration and later, when they became available, the power heads.� Now I realize that may now be �old world� thinking but then that�s why I�m here, to learn the latest and the greatest. � Also, thanks to Lenny for the reading list.� I will be going over there shortly.� Yes, I have heard of �cycling� but we never used test-kits or anything to monitor just a goodly amount of old gravel from a good well established tank and you were off. We will be re-visiting this point in upcoming posts I�m sure. � Bill � � � � � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31258	From: bill1433	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction

Lenny, � Thanks for the return.� When I'm ready, I also will ask here on list.� If mailing can be done maybe some of my new friends here would like to help.. � Again, in case you missed my other post, thanks for that great reading list..� Apparently you folks now pay more attention to the nitrate, nitrite levels then we did back then.� These were predominately used for our salt-water friends, test kits not withstanding; the cost was quite high. � Bill --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 12:08 PM Actually, you can buy fish online and they can be mailed to you although shipping can be expensive if only buying a few fish. There are many private sellers on http://www.AquaBid. com (like an eBay but for aquatic stuff). You can also buy live fish from many, many other online retailers. Here are a few that I've always heard good things about. http://www.LiveAqua ria.com (which is the sister site to http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com which sells dry goods for all pets.. both are very reputable) http://www.davesfis h.com/ http://www.franksaq uarium.com/ nanofish. htm http://unclenedsfis hfactory. com/ http://www.goldfish net.com/home. asp Some other dry good online sources that I have used: http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com http://www.BigAlsOn line.com http://www.MarineDe pot.com http://www.ThatFish Place.com (they also sell live fish http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/cat/expand_ Aquatic/248/ category. web but I haven't really heard much about that part of their business) Last but not least... http://www.PetsMart .com I'm sure there are many, many other reputable resources but these are the ones I feel comfortable promoting. I'm betting you can find that "old beef heart home-made recipe" somewhere online if you ever need it (or at least something very similar to it). http://www.Google. com is the best search engine right now although there are others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Your mail hit on my biggest problems! No fish stores to speak of within 50 miles or so and so it follows that also no Tropical Fish Accessories either.. Most or nearly all of my purchases will most probably be done on line. As for the fish themselves; I don�t know how we could solve that problem, you can�t mail fish On the Discus, I must tell the truth Ray--------- --------- luck. The fish did the work and I got the gravy. The were excellent parents with a great tolerance toward me. As you already know, Discus love eating their own fry and will do so any time they are upset or threatened. I found that if they tolerate their owners hands being in the tank and do not shown stress or hide (mine would actually come up nibble on my arm at times) then you have and excellent chance with them. When I noticed they were showing spawning signs they were given their own 55 gallon tank. All I did was 25% water changes in the fry & parents tank every few days for cleanliness. No filters running at all just bare tanks and air stones for circulation and an old piece of sidewalk slate to spawn on. Baby brine when they were ready, regular frozen size, and finally onto an old beef-heart homemade food that I lost the recipe for. Tank temp was maintained at around 84 degrees. At this point in time I had plenty of tanks and when they fry were ready to be separted from their parents they would be moved according to their size and growth rate. I learned with all fish, very early on, that the big secret to keeping and receiving big healthy fish was plenty of room and lots of fresh water changes. After they get a good start then into a community tank setting. On the Vortex diatomaceous earth filters; I am gathering from your mail that there are better/ easier methods today? Yes, Ray I remember those crazy Diatom start-ups! Maybe this is along the lines of those bio-wheels I asked about? Also, at the risk of raising the �wrath� of yourself and the group, I should tell you that I WAS one of those people that would never, ever setup a tank without under gravel filtration and later, when they became available, the power heads. Now I realize that may now be �old world� thinking but then that�s why I�m here, to learn the latest and the greatest. Also, thanks to Lenny for the reading list. I will be going over there shortly. Yes, I have heard of �cycling� but we never used test-kits or anything to monitor just a goodly amount of old gravel from a good well established tank and you were off. We will be re-visiting this point in upcoming posts I�m sure. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 10:51:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 11:08:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31259	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys

Do you have your tank set up with sectioned off areas, either using rocks, lots of plants, driftwood/roots, etc., so the krib can claim a section as it's territory? Without it's own area, it would be more likely to claim the entire tank bottom as it's territory and since your cory's are mostly bottom dwellers, this can pose a problem as you are seeing. If your 29G is presumably a 29G tall tank, it has the same footprint as a 20G tank (and not much bigger than the footprint of a 10G) and should be stocked accordingly. While the added water volume helps with maintaining water chemistry and diluting pollution between PWC's, it does not really add much more "space" on the bottom for fish to claim. Here's a good profile for reference info. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html Here is Fishbase's profile and read over all of the links in the "More Info" section for more details. http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] kribs vs. corys 29 gallon tank my female kribensis is a nightmare to my corys. She won't even let them eat peacefully what can I do to ease this problem? She killed the two ghost shrimp that I had in the tank. She attacks the pencilfish but, I would like to breed these fish now I know that they are aggressive when protecting their young but she is not breeding now. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 12:14:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31260	From: bill1433	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fish sources

Thanks Harry! � And thanks also for getting me here.� I do understand about spammers and glad to see this group takes steps to protect itself.� It's a shame that the abuse warrant's such action. � Bill --- On Sun, 10/12/08, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish sources To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 12:42 PM Google anubiasdesign. Hundreds of folks trust this guy. His name is Mark. I've bought from him several times, never a problem. He is also an officer of the International Betta Conference. I'm am not affiliated in any way. He is just a trusted source. Harry --- On Sun, 10/12/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 11:40 AM Your mail hit on my biggest problems!� No fish stores to speak of within 50 miles or so and so it follows that also no Tropical Fish Accessories either..� Most or nearly all of my purchases will most probably be done on line.� As for the fish themselves; I don�t know how we could solve that problem, you can�t mail fish � On the Discus, I must tell the truth Ray------------------luck.� The fish did the work and I got the gravy.� The were excellent parents with a great tolerance toward me.� As you already know, Discus love eating their own fry and will do so any time they are upset or threatened.� I found that if they tolerate their owners hands being in the tank and do not shown stress or hide (mine would actually come up nibble on my arm at times) then you have and excellent chance with them.� When I noticed they were showing spawning signs they were given their own 55 gallon tank. All I did was 25% water changes in the fry & parents tank every few days for cleanliness.� No filters running at all just bare tanks and air stones for circulation and an old piece of sidewalk slate to spawn on.� Baby brine when they were ready, regular frozen size, and finally onto an old beef-heart homemade food that I lost the recipe for.� Tank temp was maintained at around 84 degrees.� At this point in time I had plenty of tanks and when they fry were ready to be separted from their parents they would be moved according to their size and growth rate.� I learned with all fish, very early on, that the big secret to keeping and receiving big healthy fish was plenty of room and lots of fresh water changes.� After they get a good start then into a community tank setting. � � On the Vortex diatomaceous earth filters; I am gathering from your mail that there are better/ easier methods today?� Yes, Ray I remember those crazy Diatom start-ups! Maybe this is along the lines of those bio-wheels I asked about? � Also, at the risk of raising the �wrath� of yourself and the group, I should tell you that I WAS one of those people that would never, ever setup a tank without under gravel filtration and later, when they became available, the power heads.� Now I realize that may now be �old world� thinking but then that�s why I�m here, to learn the latest and the greatest. � Also, thanks to Lenny for the reading list.� I will be going over there shortly.� Yes, I have heard of �cycling� but we never used test-kits or anything to monitor just a goodly amount of old gravel from a good well established tank and you were off. We will be re-visiting this point in upcoming posts I�m sure. � Bill � � � � � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction

\\Steve//, I know you are also a bit of a computer geek (a good thing nowadays!) too (note that I said "too" since I'm a bit of one also) since we share interest in the Outlook User yahoo group. Why is it that the links I provided were broken up in such a manner when Bill replied to my post? They weren't long links that we expect Yahoo Groups to break due to their length but rather each link was broken by a space exactly after 19 characters? Any ideas? Bill, Yes, in the past 10-20 years (much of that before my time), and even more recently, we've learned a heck of a lot more about the nitrogen cycle and how it works and affects our fish and how important it is to properly cycle a tank and keep it cycled properly for long term health of the tank's overall ecology. This is even more important in un-planted or lightly planted tanks. In the "old days", serious fish keepers almost always had planted tanks so knowing and understanding the nitrogen cycle wasn't as much of an issue as it naturally happened with all of the plants in the tanks. As the marketplace moved people towards plastic and silk plants (for easier selling to new fish keepers), it took away this much needed part of the ecology of a closed ecosystem so in these cases, building up a proper nitrifying bacteria colony and maintaining that colony is as important as keeping the fish, as is doing more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) to remove/dilute the fish waste, DOC's (dissolved organic compounds... aka dissolved fish poop. lol) and lately we've been learning more about how the high hormone levels in our tanks can negatively affect our fish so the PWC's also remove/dilute these hormones. I'm still not sure if the plants utilize any of these hormones but I'm sure there are studies being done to check this also, but for now the only and easy solution is frequent PWC's although some of the newer advance chemical filtration media (I use Purigen in my Goldfish tank to help keep the DOC's down between my weekly PWC's) claim to help remove some of these hormones as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Lenny, Thanks for the return. When I'm ready, I also will ask here on list. If mailing can be done maybe some of my new friends here would like to help.. Again, in case you missed my other post, thanks for that great reading list.. Apparently you folks now pay more attention to the nitrate, nitrite levels then we did back then. These were predominately used for our salt-water friends, test kits not withstanding; the cost was quite high. Bill --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 12:08 PM Actually, you can buy fish online and they can be mailed to you although shipping can be expensive if only buying a few fish. There are many private sellers on http://www.AquaBid. com (like an eBay but for aquatic stuff). You can also buy live fish from many, many other online retailers. Here are a few that I've always heard good things about. http://www.LiveAqua ria.com (which is the sister site to http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com which sells dry goods for all pets.. both are very reputable) http://www.davesfis h.com/ http://www.franksaq uarium.com/ nanofish. htm http://unclenedsfis hfactory. com/ http://www.goldfish net.com/home. asp Some other dry good online sources that I have used: http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com http://www.BigAlsOn line.com http://www.MarineDe pot.com http://www.ThatFish Place.com (they also sell live fish http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/cat/expand_ Aquatic/248/ category. web but I haven't really heard much about that part of their business) Last but not least... http://www.PetsMart .com I'm sure there are many, many other reputable resources but these are the ones I feel comfortable promoting. I'm betting you can find that "old beef heart home-made recipe" somewhere online if you ever need it (or at least something very similar to it). http://www.Google. com is the best search engine right now although there are others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Your mail hit on my biggest problems! No fish stores to speak of within 50 miles or so and so it follows that also no Tropical Fish Accessories either.. Most or nearly all of my purchases will most probably be done on line. As for the fish themselves; I don't know how we could solve that problem, you can't mail fish On the Discus, I must tell the truth Ray--------- --------- luck. The fish did the work and I got the gravy. The were excellent parents with a great tolerance toward me. As you already know, Discus love eating their own fry and will do so any time they are upset or threatened. I found that if they tolerate their owners hands being in the tank and do not shown stress or hide (mine would actually come up nibble on my arm at times) then you have and excellent chance with them. When I noticed they were showing spawning signs they were given their own 55 gallon tank. All I did was 25% water changes in the fry & parents tank every few days for cleanliness. No filters running at all just bare tanks and air stones for circulation and an old piece of sidewalk slate to spawn on. Baby brine when they were ready, regular frozen size, and finally onto an old beef-heart homemade food that I lost the recipe for. Tank temp was maintained at around 84 degrees. At this point in time I had plenty of tanks and when they fry were ready to be separted from their parents they would be moved according to their size and growth rate. I learned with all fish, very early on, that the big secret to keeping and receiving big healthy fish was plenty of room and lots of fresh water changes. After they get a good start then into a community tank setting. On the Vortex diatomaceous earth filters; I am gathering from your mail that there are better/ easier methods today? Yes, Ray I remember those crazy Diatom start-ups! Maybe this is along the lines of those bio-wheels I asked about? Also, at the risk of raising the "wrath" of yourself and the group, I should tell you that I WAS one of those people that would never, ever setup a tank without under gravel filtration and later, when they became available, the power heads. Now I realize that may now be "old world" thinking but then that's why I'm here, to learn the latest and the greatest. Also, thanks to Lenny for the reading list. I will be going over there shortly. Yes, I have heard of "cycling" but we never used test-kits or anything to monitor just a goodly amount of old gravel from a good well established tank and you were off. We will be re-visiting this point in upcoming posts I'm sure. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 12:32:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31262	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Live Plants

Hey, is anyone pruining their tanks? I'm looking for some easy to grow plants. My one LFS about 30 miles away lol only has anacharis. So I have that but my bulbs I'm trying to grow are not working well. I'd be willing to pay a small amount through paypal and then you wouldnt have to throw away any cuttings! :-) Its worth a try right? Sarah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31263	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction

Lenny, That looks like a Yahoo thing. Normally, when a link breaks, it is at a separation character (_, -, /, %) and not in the middle of a word, as your e-mail shows below. Look at the links in an e-mail I sent out yesterday for examples: ---------------------------------------------- This first is kind of important to anyone using a browser and Adobe Flash, which pretty much means all of you. There is a new vector of attack for malware authors. It is known as clickjacking. The first link brings you to an article about the problem and the second is from Adobe and presents a workaround for the problem, with a promise of an updated Flash by the end of the month. http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic& articleId=9116638&taxonomyId=16&source=NLT_NET&nlid=27 TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/4xypat http://www.adobe.com/support/security/advisories/apsa08-08.html TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/3m2hn2 This is an actual obituary that appeared in the Casper (Wyoming) Star Tribune. I guess they do things a bit different out there. http://casperstartribune.net/articles/2008/09/15/news/obituaries/a8e87b4 5d855b1be872574c4007aa6d2.txt TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/3kfwxb The cause and solution for the western drought are revealed in this letter to the editor appearing in the Border Mail from the Albury-Wodonga area of Victoria, Australia. This is a GIF of the letter, so you may need to increase the size of it to read. http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/8080/droughtxc8.gif A new breakfast cereal is out. Credit Crunch. Here is the ad for it. http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/Credit+Crunch/ This link shows us drag racing in New York vs. Drag racing in San Francisco. http://www.jumbojoke.com/drag_racing_ny_vs_sf_1718.html Depictions of computer error messages that the common user can understand. http://www.jibjab.com/view/41520 This story is from Japan. "Dumping Someone Is Hard". Apparently they have problems over there as well. http://gizmodo.com/5051111/dumping-someone-is-hard-even-if-that-someone- is-a-sex-doll TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5wrrf7 From your favorite Swedish news source, The Local, Sweden's news in English, comes this story about "killer" slugs moving north. I'm not a slug, though I could become one by holding an office job in DC and waiting in the slug lines to grab a ride so someone can use the HOV lanes, but I don't think if I was a Swedish slug, I'd be moving further north. Anyhow, find the story here: http://www.thelocal.se/14460/20080920/ And, while we are in Europe, let us visit Great Britain to get this from the BBC site. It is a face memory test. You view one set of pictures of faces, then you view another. Finally you get to determine which faces you saw were. I sucked, which did not surprise me, what with my total lack of memory for faces, but I am sure that many of you will do well at it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/tmt/instructions_1.shtml TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/6zbrjj This is the BigTex.com food locator for this year's Texas State Fair running through the 19th of this month. It is not so much that I think you are going to run down there and finding yourself hungry would be looking for a place to eat, but for the featured foods. How about some Chicken Fried Bacon? Maybe your taste would turn more to Texas Fried Jelly Beans. Then there is Fire & Ice - A pineapple ring is battered and deep-fried, then topped with banana-flavored whipped cream that's been frozen in liquid nitrogen. The smoking concoction is ladled with strawberries and syrup. Maybe a nice dessert of Crispy Fried Cantaloupe Pie to top off and adventurous day of eating? http://www.bigtex.com/foodlocator/ To finish off this week, here are the sites of a couple of places across town from me. I've never visited the first, Hardcore Choppers, but if I were in the market for a motorcycle, I'd certainly check them out. The second place, which I visit about once a year is actually a 3 for one deal. Where can you see such cars, all in one place, Ferrari of Washington, Lamborghini of Washington, and Maserati of Washington? Guys, if you come for a visit, we can take a trip over there. Just promise you will not drool on the cars, OK? http://www.hardcorechoppers.com/frameindex.htm http://www.highroadag.com/fwash/ ------------------------------------------------- You will note that I provided a TinyURL for those instances when I felt a link was likely to be broken, and, if Yahoo does not feel like munging my message, you will note where each link breaks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction \\Steve//, I know you are also a bit of a computer geek (a good thing nowadays!) too (note that I said "too" since I'm a bit of one also) since we share interest in the Outlook User yahoo group. Why is it that the links I provided were broken up in such a manner when Bill replied to my post? They weren't long links that we expect Yahoo Groups to break due to their length but rather each link was broken by a space exactly after 19 characters? Any ideas? Bill, Yes, in the past 10-20 years (much of that before my time), and even more recently, we've learned a heck of a lot more about the nitrogen cycle and how it works and affects our fish and how important it is to properly cycle a tank and keep it cycled properly for long term health of the tank's overall ecology. This is even more important in un-planted or lightly planted tanks. In the "old days", serious fish keepers almost always had planted tanks so knowing and understanding the nitrogen cycle wasn't as much of an issue as it naturally happened with all of the plants in the tanks. As the marketplace moved people towards plastic and silk plants (for easier selling to new fish keepers), it took away this much needed part of the ecology of a closed ecosystem so in these cases, building up a proper nitrifying bacteria colony and maintaining that colony is as important as keeping the fish, as is doing more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) to remove/dilute the fish waste, DOC's (dissolved organic compounds... aka dissolved fish poop. lol) and lately we've been learning more about how the high hormone levels in our tanks can negatively affect our fish so the PWC's also remove/dilute these hormones. I'm still not sure if the plants utilize any of these hormones but I'm sure there are studies being done to check this also, but for now the only and easy solution is frequent PWC's although some of the newer advance chemical filtration media (I use Purigen in my Goldfish tank to help keep the DOC's down between my weekly PWC's) claim to help remove some of these hormones as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Lenny, Thanks for the return. When I'm ready, I also will ask here on list. If mailing can be done maybe some of my new friends here would like to help.. Again, in case you missed my other post, thanks for that great reading list.. Apparently you folks now pay more attention to the nitrate, nitrite levels then we did back then. These were predominately used for our salt-water friends, test kits not withstanding; the cost was quite high. Bill --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 12:08 PM Actually, you can buy fish online and they can be mailed to you although shipping can be expensive if only buying a few fish. There are many private sellers on http://www.AquaBid. com (like an eBay but for aquatic stuff). You can also buy live fish from many, many other online retailers. Here are a few that I've always heard good things about. http://www.LiveAqua ria.com (which is the sister site to http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com which sells dry goods for all pets.. both are very reputable) http://www.davesfis h.com/ http://www.franksaq uarium.com/ nanofish. htm http://unclenedsfis hfactory. com/ http://www.goldfish net.com/home. asp Some other dry good online sources that I have used: http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com http://www.BigAlsOn line.com http://www.MarineDe pot.com http://www.ThatFish Place.com (they also sell live fish http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/cat/expand_ Aquatic/248/ category. web but I haven't really heard much about that part of their business) Last but not least... http://www.PetsMart .com I'm sure there are many, many other reputable resources but these are the ones I feel comfortable promoting. I'm betting you can find that "old beef heart home-made recipe" somewhere online if you ever need it (or at least something very similar to it). http://www.Google. com is the best search engine right now although there are others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Your mail hit on my biggest problems! No fish stores to speak of within 50 miles or so and so it follows that also no Tropical Fish Accessories either.. Most or nearly all of my purchases will most probably be done on line. As for the fish themselves; I don't know how we could solve that problem, you can't mail fish On the Discus, I must tell the truth Ray--------- --------- luck. The fish did the work and I got the gravy. The were excellent parents with a great tolerance toward me. As you already know, Discus love eating their own fry and will do so any time they are upset or threatened. I found that if they tolerate their owners hands being in the tank and do not shown stress or hide (mine would actually come up nibble on my arm at times) then you have and excellent chance with them. When I noticed they were showing spawning signs they were given their own 55 gallon tank. All I did was 25% water changes in the fry & parents tank every few days for cleanliness. No filters running at all just bare tanks and air stones for circulation and an old piece of sidewalk slate to spawn on. Baby brine when they were ready, regular frozen size, and finally onto an old beef-heart homemade food that I lost the recipe for. Tank temp was maintained at around 84 degrees. At this point in time I had plenty of tanks and when they fry were ready to be separted from their parents they would be moved according to their size and growth rate. I learned with all fish, very early on, that the big secret to keeping and receiving big healthy fish was plenty of room and lots of fresh water changes. After they get a good start then into a community tank setting. On the Vortex diatomaceous earth filters; I am gathering from your mail that there are better/ easier methods today? Yes, Ray I remember those crazy Diatom start-ups! Maybe this is along the lines of those bio-wheels I asked about? Also, at the risk of raising the "wrath" of yourself and the group, I should tell you that I WAS one of those people that would never, ever setup a tank without under gravel filtration and later, when they became available, the power heads. Now I realize that may now be "old world" thinking but then that's why I'm here, to learn the latest and the greatest. Also, thanks to Lenny for the reading list. I will be going over there shortly. Yes, I have heard of "cycling" but we never used test-kits or anything to monitor just a goodly amount of old gravel from a good well established tank and you were off. We will be re-visiting this point in upcoming posts I'm sure. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31264	From: Alina	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes

Lesson learned. I plunked down $29 for a master test kit today, and gee, it seemed like money well spent for my popping babies. I did feed the fish last night, and algae tablet which would also feed my apple snail. Everyone chowed. So here are my parameters today: Nitrites (aaahkk) 5.o Others appear ok -- nitrate 10, Amm. 0 Did a morning 15-18% PW change (sucking up the snails too), cleaning my gravel and hand picking any loose interlopers (snails) who have invaved the gravel. Keeping my light mostly off, maybe doing 3-4 hours max a day. Have a bubble stone for added oxygenation. No fish dead yet, and none appear to be hanging around the top of the tank or otherwise acting strangely. They all just hover around me when I'm there, hoping to be fed. Added a wee bit of salt. Now, should I do another PWC tonight if the nitrites are still high? I'm doing two a day b/c it just works with my schedule. Thank you. And if I told you what the fish guy said at the store today about getting rid of my snails..he suggested a small amount of a copper solution. I just wanted to say DON'T YOU KNOW THAT WILL KILL THE SNAIL I WANT AND THE REST OF MY FISH? Never again, never ever again..... Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't believe in fasting fish... especially younger fish. I guess a grown > fish could be fasted for a day without much of a problem but for younger > fish, I usually make the analogy to our kids since most people have younger > fish in their newly set up tanks. If your baby was pooping their diaper and > it was inconvenient to you to have to change the diaper, would you stop > feeding it for a day just so you don't have to change the diaper? That's > comparable to not feeding the fish because you are having cycling issues > (poop and pee in the tank). Just do the PWC's as needed (just like the > diaper changes) and learn another life/fish-keeping lesson... in your case, > pre-treat or quarantine everything before putting it in your tank. > > And keep working on removing them snails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and > spikes > > ARRGh, I knew I was going to get scolded! Believe me, I took the advice out > of sheer panic that my poor fish were doomed....It was a moment of > weakness!:-) > > Ok, ditch the chips, pray for blooms. Got it. > > On the snail front, after two cleanings I don't see any. > And NO! I did not add any other chemicals. Do you take me for a complete > newbie. I have a WHOLE two months of experience now, thankeeverymuch. > > I had changed my filter cartridge, again one of my newbie mistakes about > three and half weeks ago. I did not have any issues following that. The only > thing that has changed was the appearance of the snails (which by the way, I > no longer feel all that sorry for, and was none too sad when a few were > sucked away with my aquarium funk)I have plucked a few others out of the > tank too. I'll live with them, I guess and try to control as best I can with > cleaning and picking. > > Thanks to all who responded. Also, should I hold off on feeding the fish? I > have not fed them today. Let's call it at 24 hour fast. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH... we need to come up with a suitable and > sufficient > > punishment for folks that listen to "the pet store employee" > instead of > > checking with a real fish keeper first. Tar and feathering might > be a bit > > harsh... but maybe 10 lashes with a wet noodle would be suitable. ;- > ) (This > > can be self administered.. lol) > > > > The ammo-chips (Zeolite) will only set your nitrogen cycle back and > starve > > off the good nitrifying bacteria so you'll constantly have issues > if you > > ever stop using the ammo-chips or if you have to remove them for > recharging > > or if you ever have to add salt to your tank. Yes, they work by > sucking up > > the ammonia but they also starve your good bacteria by sucking up > all the > > ammonia so they are OK for an emergency like a power outage or > other extreme > > but there is no good reason to run zeolite in a filter system for > everyday > > issues or things like this which can be controlled by PWC's and > finding the > > cause and fixing it. > > > > Did you happen to change out your filter cartridge prior to the > ammonia > > spike? If not that, then it very well could be the increased > bioload due to > > a large increase in snails. I hope you didn't add any chemicals to > kill the > > snails... I know pet store employees are infamous for giving that > crappy > > advice too! > > > > The normal treatment for high nitrites is salt in the tank but you > can't do > > that because salt will cause the zeolite to start releasing the > sucked up > > ammonia. > > > > If it was me, I'd remove the zeolite and start doing a series of > 25% PWC's, > > one every hour or two, as needed to keep the ammonia and/or > nitrites at or > > below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to protect against > nitrite > > poisoning and replace this pinch of salt with each PWC. If your > fish start > > to show symptoms of nitrite poisoning (not likely yet), then you > would have > > to increase the amount of salt but start off with a pinch per 10G. > > > > Start manually removing the snails that you can pick out since that > is the > > only major change in your tank that you've mentioned. Use a snail > trap for > > those you can't easily pick off... a slice of cucumber on the > bottom (after > > lights out), in a corner will work and you can simply pick it up > each > > morning and trash it. If you don't want to touch a piece of > cucumber > > covered in snails, then put it on a plastic container cover on the > bottom so > > you can pick it up by the cover to trash the slice of cuke. > > > > Check around for a dead fish or plant and remove it/them, if found. > > > > The good nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony > size every > > 24-48 hours so if you didn't do something that killed them off > completely > > (did you add any kinds of meds to the tank that you didn't > mention?), this > > should all pass in the next day or two. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] It's really becoming a bad week......snails > and > > spikes > > > > > > So Thursday, my 2 month old tank bloomed with nuisance snails. > Water quality > > was at good levels. Friday night, it spiked ammonia, close to 1.o; > nitrates > > and nitrites were at high levels too. > > > > I did 25 % PWC and vaccumed gravel (it wasn't all that dirty, I had > done my > > routine 25% per week, for the past two weeks); this morning, > ammonia was .5, > > nitrates and nitrites still high, so I did another 25%. > > > > I've added ammo chips to my filter, as recommended by the pet store. > > I did it about an hour ago. Water appears cloudy. Ammonia levels > are 0 now. > > Good sign? Bad sign? > > > > The stores aquarist suggested that the snails may not have had > enough to eat > > so they're dying off, creating the detritus that led to my ammonia > spike. > > She also suggested I might be going thru a second cycling which some > > aquariums do. New one on me. Either way, during my cleanings my > water was > > not all that nasty. It had bits at the bottom but was mostly clear. > > > > My nitrates currently are somewhere between 0 and 20, and nitrites > are > > between 3.o and 5.o. I have those test strips (I know, I HAVE to > get a kit) > > > > If these are not down by morning, what should I try? She recommends > no more > > PWC. She suggests adding the good bacteria to the tank. I have some. > > > > I fear I'll awake to my fish having fled the tank for their lives. > > This is my first crisis with my tank, so bear with me. > > > > Thanks > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > > 6:28:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > > 6:59:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/11/2008 11:53:25 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 3:29:43 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31265	From: bill1433	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction

Len, � Yes, I agree with many of these things and water changes were paramount to keep them to a minimum.� This also stems from my belief in under gravel filters but since that comment did not raise the �wrath� on the list �I thought it would on a previous post, I am assuming they are still in use? � My belief came not from the chemical standpoint as much as the calming-effect. When a water change is done there is always a slight up-he veal in the tank..� I noticed that when these filters were incorporated, this effect was kept to a minimum.� But again, this could just be old-world thinking. Incidently, I'm into computers also, have been since the old DOS days � Bill --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 1:32 PM \\Steve//, I know you are also a bit of a computer geek (a good thing nowadays!) too (note that I said "too" since I'm a bit of one also) since we share interest in the Outlook User yahoo group. Why is it that the links I provided were broken up in such a manner when Bill replied to my post? They weren't long links that we expect Yahoo Groups to break due to their length but rather each link was broken by a space exactly after 19 characters? Any ideas? Bill, Yes, in the past 10-20 years (much of that before my time), and even more recently, we've learned a heck of a lot more about the nitrogen cycle and how it works and affects our fish and how important it is to properly cycle a tank and keep it cycled properly for long term health of the tank's overall ecology. This is even more important in un-planted or lightly planted tanks. In the "old days", serious fish keepers almost always had planted tanks so knowing and understanding the nitrogen cycle wasn't as much of an issue as it naturally happened with all of the plants in the tanks. As the marketplace moved people towards plastic and silk plants (for easier selling to new fish keepers), it took away this much needed part of the ecology of a closed ecosystem so in these cases, building up a proper nitrifying bacteria colony and maintaining that colony is as important as keeping the fish, as is doing more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) to remove/dilute the fish waste, DOC's (dissolved organic compounds... aka dissolved fish poop. lol) and lately we've been learning more about how the high hormone levels in our tanks can negatively affect our fish so the PWC's also remove/dilute these hormones. I'm still not sure if the plants utilize any of these hormones but I'm sure there are studies being done to check this also, but for now the only and easy solution is frequent PWC's although some of the newer advance chemical filtration media (I use Purigen in my Goldfish tank to help keep the DOC's down between my weekly PWC's) claim to help remove some of these hormones as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Lenny, Thanks for the return. When I'm ready, I also will ask here on list. If mailing can be done maybe some of my new friends here would like to help.. Again, in case you missed my other post, thanks for that great reading list.. Apparently you folks now pay more attention to the nitrate, nitrite levels then we did back then. These were predominately used for our salt-water friends, test kits not withstanding; the cost was quite high. Bill --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 12:08 PM Actually, you can buy fish online and they can be mailed to you although shipping can be expensive if only buying a few fish. There are many private sellers on http://www.AquaBid. com (like an eBay but for aquatic stuff). You can also buy live fish from many, many other online retailers. Here are a few that I've always heard good things about. http://www.LiveAqua ria.com (which is the sister site to http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com which sells dry goods for all pets.. both are very reputable) http://www.davesfis h.com/ http://www.franksaq uarium.com/ nanofish. htm http://unclenedsfis hfactory. com/ http://www.goldfish net.com/home. asp Some other dry good online sources that I have used: http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com http://www.BigAlsOn line.com http://www.MarineDe pot.com http://www.ThatFish Place.com (they also sell live fish http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/cat/expand_ Aquatic/248/ category. web but I haven't really heard much about that part of their business) Last but not least... http://www.PetsMart .com I'm sure there are many, many other reputable resources but these are the ones I feel comfortable promoting. I'm betting you can find that "old beef heart home-made recipe" somewhere online if you ever need it (or at least something very similar to it). http://www.Google. com is the best search engine right now although there are others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Your mail hit on my biggest problems! No fish stores to speak of within 50 miles or so and so it follows that also no Tropical Fish Accessories either.. Most or nearly all of my purchases will most probably be done on line. As for the fish themselves; I don't know how we could solve that problem, you can't mail fish On the Discus, I must tell the truth Ray--------- --------- luck. The fish did the work and I got the gravy. The were excellent parents with a great tolerance toward me. As you already know, Discus love eating their own fry and will do so any time they are upset or threatened. I found that if they tolerate their owners hands being in the tank and do not shown stress or hide (mine would actually come up nibble on my arm at times) then you have and excellent chance with them. When I noticed they were showing spawning signs they were given their own 55 gallon tank. All I did was 25% water changes in the fry & parents tank every few days for cleanliness. No filters running at all just bare tanks and air stones for circulation and an old piece of sidewalk slate to spawn on. Baby brine when they were ready, regular frozen size, and finally onto an old beef-heart homemade food that I lost the recipe for. Tank temp was maintained at around 84 degrees. At this point in time I had plenty of tanks and when they fry were ready to be separted from their parents they would be moved according to their size and growth rate. I learned with all fish, very early on, that the big secret to keeping and receiving big healthy fish was plenty of room and lots of fresh water changes. After they get a good start then into a community tank setting. On the Vortex diatomaceous earth filters; I am gathering from your mail that there are better/ easier methods today? Yes, Ray I remember those crazy Diatom start-ups! Maybe this is along the lines of those bio-wheels I asked about? Also, at the risk of raising the "wrath" of yourself and the group, I should tell you that I WAS one of those people that would never, ever setup a tank without under gravel filtration and later, when they became available, the power heads. Now I realize that may now be "old world" thinking but then that's why I'm here, to learn the latest and the greatest. Also, thanks to Lenny for the reading list. I will be going over there shortly. Yes, I have heard of "cycling" but we never used test-kits or anything to monitor just a goodly amount of old gravel from a good well established tank and you were off. We will be re-visiting this point in upcoming posts I'm sure. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 12:32:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants

All I have extra of is Anacharis http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=110, Guppy Grass http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=174 and Duckweed http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=143. Send me your mailing address off-list and I'll send you a small package. You can pay for it after you receive it, through my PayPal link on my blog. The guppy grass might even come with some baby cherry shrimp although I'm thinking they'll flee the grass once I start pulling it out of their tank... but who knows. There's also snails in that tank so you might get some of them but guppy grass is kind of thin so there's not a lot of space for snails to lay eggs or hang out too much. The duckweed is a small floating plant that will grow like crazy and envelope the entire surface of the tank if the surface is less agitated. In a tank with lots of surface agitation, the duckweed will die back and only grow in areas where there is limited agitation. If you have an HOB filter, you can move it around to see how it affects your surface agitation so you don't have too much cover but still get some. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Live Plants Hey, is anyone pruining their tanks? I'm looking for some easy to grow plants. My one LFS about 30 miles away lol only has anacharis. So I have that but my bulbs I'm trying to grow are not working well. I'd be willing to pay a small amount through paypal and then you wouldnt have to throw away any cuttings! :-) Its worth a try right? Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 1:48:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31267	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes

Yes, you should be doing 25% PWC's, up to every hour or two, until the nitrites are down to 1.0ppm or below. Replace the removed salt with each PWC. It's very important that you get them down. 1.0ppm is actually too high so 5.0 is WAY TO HIGH. You could have probably saved some money on that master test kit. I'm presuming it's an API kit. If you have a nearby PetsMart, they will match their online prices so ALWAYS look around for things on their website and print out the page and bring it to the store. I usually save 30-50% off their shelf prices. The last time I checked, the API Master Test Kit was around $16.00 online at PetsMart.com. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and spikes Lesson learned. I plunked down $29 for a master test kit today, and gee, it seemed like money well spent for my popping babies. I did feed the fish last night, and algae tablet which would also feed my apple snail. Everyone chowed. So here are my parameters today: Nitrites (aaahkk) 5.o Others appear ok -- nitrate 10, Amm. 0 Did a morning 15-18% PW change (sucking up the snails too), cleaning my gravel and hand picking any loose interlopers (snails) who have invaved the gravel. Keeping my light mostly off, maybe doing 3-4 hours max a day. Have a bubble stone for added oxygenation. No fish dead yet, and none appear to be hanging around the top of the tank or otherwise acting strangely. They all just hover around me when I'm there, hoping to be fed. Added a wee bit of salt. Now, should I do another PWC tonight if the nitrites are still high? I'm doing two a day b/c it just works with my schedule. Thank you. And if I told you what the fish guy said at the store today about getting rid of my snails..he suggested a small amount of a copper solution. I just wanted to say DON'T YOU KNOW THAT WILL KILL THE SNAIL I WANT AND THE REST OF MY FISH? Never again, never ever again..... Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't believe in fasting fish... especially younger fish. I guess a grown > fish could be fasted for a day without much of a problem but for younger > fish, I usually make the analogy to our kids since most people have younger > fish in their newly set up tanks. If your baby was pooping their diaper and > it was inconvenient to you to have to change the diaper, would you stop > feeding it for a day just so you don't have to change the diaper? That's > comparable to not feeding the fish because you are having cycling issues > (poop and pee in the tank). Just do the PWC's as needed (just like the > diaper changes) and learn another life/fish-keeping lesson... in your case, > pre-treat or quarantine everything before putting it in your tank. > > And keep working on removing them snails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's really becoming a bad week......snails and > spikes > > ARRGh, I knew I was going to get scolded! Believe me, I took the advice out > of sheer panic that my poor fish were doomed....It was a moment of > weakness!:-) > > Ok, ditch the chips, pray for blooms. Got it. > > On the snail front, after two cleanings I don't see any. > And NO! I did not add any other chemicals. Do you take me for a complete > newbie. I have a WHOLE two months of experience now, thankeeverymuch. > > I had changed my filter cartridge, again one of my newbie mistakes about > three and half weeks ago. I did not have any issues following that. The only > thing that has changed was the appearance of the snails (which by the way, I > no longer feel all that sorry for, and was none too sad when a few were > sucked away with my aquarium funk)I have plucked a few others out of the > tank too. I'll live with them, I guess and try to control as best I can with > cleaning and picking. > > Thanks to all who responded. Also, should I hold off on feeding the fish? I > have not fed them today. Let's call it at 24 hour fast. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH... we need to come up with a suitable and > sufficient > > punishment for folks that listen to "the pet store employee" > instead of > > checking with a real fish keeper first. Tar and feathering might > be a bit > > harsh... but maybe 10 lashes with a wet noodle would be suitable. ;- > ) (This > > can be self administered.. lol) > > > > The ammo-chips (Zeolite) will only set your nitrogen cycle back and > starve > > off the good nitrifying bacteria so you'll constantly have issues > if you > > ever stop using the ammo-chips or if you have to remove them for > recharging > > or if you ever have to add salt to your tank. Yes, they work by > sucking up > > the ammonia but they also starve your good bacteria by sucking up > all the > > ammonia so they are OK for an emergency like a power outage or > other extreme > > but there is no good reason to run zeolite in a filter system for > everyday > > issues or things like this which can be controlled by PWC's and > finding the > > cause and fixing it. > > > > Did you happen to change out your filter cartridge prior to the > ammonia > > spike? If not that, then it very well could be the increased > bioload due to > > a large increase in snails. I hope you didn't add any chemicals to > kill the > > snails... I know pet store employees are infamous for giving that > crappy > > advice too! > > > > The normal treatment for high nitrites is salt in the tank but you > can't do > > that because salt will cause the zeolite to start releasing the > sucked up > > ammonia. > > > > If it was me, I'd remove the zeolite and start doing a series of > 25% PWC's, > > one every hour or two, as needed to keep the ammonia and/or > nitrites at or > > below 1.0ppm. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to protect against > nitrite > > poisoning and replace this pinch of salt with each PWC. If your > fish start > > to show symptoms of nitrite poisoning (not likely yet), then you > would have > > to increase the amount of salt but start off with a pinch per 10G. > > > > Start manually removing the snails that you can pick out since that > is the > > only major change in your tank that you've mentioned. Use a snail > trap for > > those you can't easily pick off... a slice of cucumber on the > bottom (after > > lights out), in a corner will work and you can simply pick it up > each > > morning and trash it. If you don't want to touch a piece of > cucumber > > covered in snails, then put it on a plastic container cover on the > bottom so > > you can pick it up by the cover to trash the slice of cuke. > > > > Check around for a dead fish or plant and remove it/them, if found. > > > > The good nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony > size every > > 24-48 hours so if you didn't do something that killed them off > completely > > (did you add any kinds of meds to the tank that you didn't > mention?), this > > should all pass in the next day or two. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] It's really becoming a bad week......snails > and > > spikes > > > > > > So Thursday, my 2 month old tank bloomed with nuisance snails. > Water quality > > was at good levels. Friday night, it spiked ammonia, close to 1.o; > nitrates > > and nitrites were at high levels too. > > > > I did 25 % PWC and vaccumed gravel (it wasn't all that dirty, I had > done my > > routine 25% per week, for the past two weeks); this morning, > ammonia was .5, > > nitrates and nitrites still high, so I did another 25%. > > > > I've added ammo chips to my filter, as recommended by the pet store. > > I did it about an hour ago. Water appears cloudy. Ammonia levels > are 0 now. > > Good sign? Bad sign? > > > > The stores aquarist suggested that the snails may not have had > enough to eat > > so they're dying off, creating the detritus that led to my ammonia > spike. > > She also suggested I might be going thru a second cycling which some > > aquariums do. New one on me. Either way, during my cleanings my > water was > > not all that nasty. It had bits at the bottom but was mostly clear. > > > > My nitrates currently are somewhere between 0 and 20, and nitrites > are > > between 3.o and 5.o. I have those test strips (I know, I HAVE to > get a kit) > > > > If these are not down by morning, what should I try? She recommends > no more > > PWC. She suggests adding the good bacteria to the tank. I have some. > > > > I fear I'll awake to my fish having fled the tank for their lives. > > This is my first crisis with my tank, so bear with me. > > > > Thanks > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 2:07:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31268	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction

If you've had a chance to read my long article, "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning", you'll see where I talk about UGF's. A recent online poll showed up to 40% of fish keepers still use UGF's although most have been modified using powerheads instead of bubblers to power the lift tubes. This helps to keep the mulm from building up under the UGF bottom plates which was an unseen problem with under-powered lift tubes on many UGF's. I really don't think even a big powerhead provides enough power to filter a UGF properly to keep the mulm from building up. Even with my biggest canister filters which move several hundred gallons per hour, I'll see an anacharis leaf or piece of fish poop float within an inch or so of the intake and not get sucked up. Just imagine trying to suck decaying detritus and mulm from 10-20" away from a lift tube across the bottom of the tank under the UGF plate. While UGF's were and are fine for establishing biological filtration using the gravel as the surface area for the nitrifying bacteria, they never were very good at mechanical filtration considering the amount of mulm build-up that happens under the UGF bottom plate. Many DIY'ers have been experimenting with reverse UGF's where they would use the powerheads to push water down the lift tube under the UGF plate to keep a constant up flow of water through the gravel to keep detritus from sinking down into the gravel in the first place. This also allowed them to use BIG powerheads that might be too much water circulation if used to spray into the tank but by spraying it down into the lift tube, the "spray" was then distributed over the bottom of the tank and up through the gravel so it became a slow current up through the gravel. Good to see you're an admitted computer geek as well. I was just telling someone the other day how computers have changed the vocabulary of the world. DSL just doesn't mean what it used to. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Len, Yes, I agree with many of these things and water changes were paramount to keep them to a minimum. This also stems from my belief in under gravel filters but since that comment did not raise the “wrath” on the list I thought it would on a previous post, I am assuming they are still in use? My belief came not from the chemical standpoint as much as the calming-effect. When a water change is done there is always a slight up-he veal in the tank.. I noticed that when these filters were incorporated, this effect was kept to a minimum. But again, this could just be old-world thinking. Incidently, I'm into computers also, have been since the old DOS days Bill --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 1:32 PM \\Steve//, I know you are also a bit of a computer geek (a good thing nowadays!) too (note that I said "too" since I'm a bit of one also) since we share interest in the Outlook User yahoo group. Why is it that the links I provided were broken up in such a manner when Bill replied to my post? They weren't long links that we expect Yahoo Groups to break due to their length but rather each link was broken by a space exactly after 19 characters? Any ideas? Bill, Yes, in the past 10-20 years (much of that before my time), and even more recently, we've learned a heck of a lot more about the nitrogen cycle and how it works and affects our fish and how important it is to properly cycle a tank and keep it cycled properly for long term health of the tank's overall ecology. This is even more important in un-planted or lightly planted tanks. In the "old days", serious fish keepers almost always had planted tanks so knowing and understanding the nitrogen cycle wasn't as much of an issue as it naturally happened with all of the plants in the tanks. As the marketplace moved people towards plastic and silk plants (for easier selling to new fish keepers), it took away this much needed part of the ecology of a closed ecosystem so in these cases, building up a proper nitrifying bacteria colony and maintaining that colony is as important as keeping the fish, as is doing more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) to remove/dilute the fish waste, DOC's (dissolved organic compounds... aka dissolved fish poop. lol) and lately we've been learning more about how the high hormone levels in our tanks can negatively affect our fish so the PWC's also remove/dilute these hormones. I'm still not sure if the plants utilize any of these hormones but I'm sure there are studies being done to check this also, but for now the only and easy solution is frequent PWC's although some of the newer advance chemical filtration media (I use Purigen in my Goldfish tank to help keep the DOC's down between my weekly PWC's) claim to help remove some of these hormones as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 12:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Lenny, Thanks for the return. When I'm ready, I also will ask here on list. If mailing can be done maybe some of my new friends here would like to help.. Again, in case you missed my other post, thanks for that great reading list.. Apparently you folks now pay more attention to the nitrate, nitrite levels then we did back then. These were predominately used for our salt-water friends, test kits not withstanding; the cost was quite high. Bill --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 12:08 PM Actually, you can buy fish online and they can be mailed to you although shipping can be expensive if only buying a few fish. There are many private sellers on http://www.AquaBid. com (like an eBay but for aquatic stuff). You can also buy live fish from many, many other online retailers. Here are a few that I've always heard good things about. http://www.LiveAqua ria.com (which is the sister site to http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com which sells dry goods for all pets.. both are very reputable) http://www.davesfis h.com/ http://www.franksaq uarium.com/ nanofish. htm http://unclenedsfis hfactory. com/ http://www.goldfish net.com/home. asp Some other dry good online sources that I have used: http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com http://www.BigAlsOn line.com http://www.MarineDe pot.com http://www.ThatFish Place.com (they also sell live fish http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/cat/expand_ Aquatic/248/ category. web but I haven't really heard much about that part of their business) Last but not least... http://www.PetsMart .com I'm sure there are many, many other reputable resources but these are the ones I feel comfortable promoting. I'm betting you can find that "old beef heart home-made recipe" somewhere online if you ever need it (or at least something very similar to it). http://www.Google. com is the best search engine right now although there are others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Letter Of Introduction Your mail hit on my biggest problems! No fish stores to speak of within 50 miles or so and so it follows that also no Tropical Fish Accessories either.. Most or nearly all of my purchases will most probably be done on line. As for the fish themselves; I don't know how we could solve that problem, you can't mail fish On the Discus, I must tell the truth Ray--------- --------- luck. The fish did the work and I got the gravy. The were excellent parents with a great tolerance toward me. As you already know, Discus love eating their own fry and will do so any time they are upset or threatened. I found that if they tolerate their owners hands being in the tank and do not shown stress or hide (mine would actually come up nibble on my arm at times) then you have and excellent chance with them. When I noticed they were showing spawning signs they were given their own 55 gallon tank. All I did was 25% water changes in the fry & parents tank every few days for cleanliness. No filters running at all just bare tanks and air stones for circulation and an old piece of sidewalk slate to spawn on. Baby brine when they were ready, regular frozen size, and finally onto an old beef-heart homemade food that I lost the recipe for. Tank temp was maintained at around 84 degrees. At this point in time I had plenty of tanks and when they fry were ready to be separted from their parents they would be moved according to their size and growth rate. I learned with all fish, very early on, that the big secret to keeping and receiving big healthy fish was plenty of room and lots of fresh water changes. After they get a good start then into a community tank setting. On the Vortex diatomaceous earth filters; I am gathering from your mail that there are better/ easier methods today? Yes, Ray I remember those crazy Diatom start-ups! Maybe this is along the lines of those bio-wheels I asked about? Also, at the risk of raising the "wrath" of yourself and the group, I should tell you that I WAS one of those people that would never, ever setup a tank without under gravel filtration and later, when they became available, the power heads. Now I realize that may now be "old world" thinking but then that's why I'm here, to learn the latest and the greatest. Also, thanks to Lenny for the reading list. I will be going over there shortly. Yes, I have heard of "cycling" but we never used test-kits or anything to monitor just a goodly amount of old gravel from a good well established tank and you were off. We will be re-visiting this point in upcoming posts I'm sure. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 12:32:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31269	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants

Lenny do the snails not eat your anacharis? We guess a few snails hitched a ride into one of our tanks and they are eating my anacharis up. Luckily it grows fairly quickly. I would also like some of the guppy grass if you have enough to share. I did the duckweed and it was a mess to clean the tank so no more duck weed for me...lol. I could pay the postage for the guppy grass but do not have a paypal account so would have to send it postal mail. Let me lnow. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live Plants All I have extra of is Anacharis http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=110, Guppy Grass http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=174 and Duckweed http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=143. Send me your mailing address off-list and I'll send you a small package. You can pay for it after you receive it, through my PayPal link on my blog. The guppy grass might even come with some baby cherry shrimp although I'm thinking they'll flee the grass once I start pulling it out of their tank.. but who knows. There's also snails in that tank so you might get some of them but guppy grass is kind of thin so there's not a lot of space for snails to lay eggs or hang out too much. The duckweed is a small floating plant that will grow like crazy and envelope the entire surface of the tank if the surface is less agitated. In a tank with lots of surface agitation, the duckweed will die back and only grow in areas where there is limited agitation. If you have an HOB filter, you can move it around to see how it affects your surface agitation so you don't have too much cover but still get some. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Live Plants Hey, is anyone pruining their tanks? I'm looking for some easy to grow plants. My one LFS about 30 miles away lol only has anacharis. So I have that but my bulbs I'm trying to grow are not working well. I'd be willing to pay a small amount through paypal and then you wouldnt have to throw away any cuttings! :-) Its worth a try right? Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 1:48:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......

Have you started fishless cycling yet, using the plain ammonia? You want to get that going ASAP while you are researching your fish. Links to Fishless Cycling are on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cherrystix81 Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 9:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ok u guys....... sorry bout that. i wasent sure on water temp so i have had it set on 74f since i set up again yesterday.......what i meant by the GH level i had added two drops and it changed to green and stayed that way. it did not start at all red so i stopped after 15 drops........my water source is well........and here is a copy of the last feed before i started a new topic ...oh and i am looking into that website.>>>>> <<well ummm kate here. i think i may have found my problem. > so i was like cleaning out the tank when i noticed bits and pieces in > my tank. now i knew i had cleaned everything properly, but didnt > understand why until i noticed a starfish.... ....it had been > deteriorating in the tank. i did not know it would do that!!!!!!!! > so i truly am an amatuer:( but now i know how imprtant it is to have an > emergency tank setup around the house. i think i will get a 5g or > something small. > ok ok now i did some water testing on the water in my house. and i am > sharing this cause i need ur help....boy do i. > so....... PH @ 8.3 > NH3 NH4 @.0mg/l > NO2 nitrite <.3mg/l > GH @ over 40 drops and didnt even change color KH @ 12 drops and > changed immedietely. > thnx u guys and yeah i know im a doofus but i didnt think the starfish > would hurt i mean it looked really cool in the tank...ah man what a day. > i am about done setting up my tank i just need to add the water again. > this time i wont add chemicals, i wont be scared of ph, and i will > listen to my peers. :) >>>>>>kate>> man i feel like a total newbie. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Tell us about the GH levels again. If I recall correctly, when you first > tested it, it took some extreme number of drops to get a result. How many > drops this time? You just say "changed to green and stayed that way". > > What is your water source again? Public utility or well? > > You started a new thread with this email so your prior thread isn't shown. > It's best to keep your thread going when you add new info so we can follow > things better... or copy/paste info from your previous thread. I use email > to read the new messages and reply so my replies include the info from the > thread so others can read down from the bottom, up, to see what is > happening. > > Many of those "little sharks" are not suitable for many tanks as they grow > into BIG sharks (or rather catfish or other fish since they aren't really > sharks). You need to find out the species or at least the common name and > give us that (as well as your tank size). > > Another good thing to do is check out the species profile on a reputable > website. I strongly suggest http://fish.mongabay.com > <http://fish.mongabay.com> as a very thorough > resource for fish profiles. One of the good things about Mongabay profiles > is the section called SC - Suggested Companions - which will give you info > on suitable tank mates for your fish. If the profile isn't listed there, > then there are many other good website resources but check out here first > since there are also many BAD website resources out there. I do have a page > on my blog that lists many of the reputable websites. For some fish like > catfish, cichlids, loaches, etc., there are some specialty websites that are > good resources that have profiles where Mongabay may not. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of cherrystix81 > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] ok u guys....... > > alright it has been 24hrs at least and i have retested the water in the tank > with a little of the aquasafe and the test results were pretty much the > same..... > so my quistion to all of u who can answer this quistion what kind of fish > can i put in my tank???? > pH 8-8.3 > NO2-<0.3mg/l > KH-12 drops > GH changed to green and stayed that way NH3&NH4-1.5mg/l > > i was wanting those little sharks i have been seeing in the pet store is > that a possability????? > > did i mention that all of you totally rock? well you do:) > >>>>>kate > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > 7:17:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 9:30:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 2:41:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants

I grow out lots of Anacharis so my snails can't really keep up. I also have it growing out in my goldfish tank (changed the fluorescent tubes recently and all of my plants are growing like crazy again) and I do not have snails in there so that is where I'll be taking the cuttings from for the Anacharis. Send me your address off-list and I'll put together a couple of packages at the same time. And yes, I still accept normal payments with my business although they are becoming less and less as a percentage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live Plants Lenny do the snails not eat your anacharis? We guess a few snails hitched a ride into one of our tanks and they are eating my anacharis up. Luckily it grows fairly quickly. I would also like some of the guppy grass if you have enough to share. I did the duckweed and it was a mess to clean the tank so no more duck weed for me...lol. I could pay the postage for the guppy grass but do not have a paypal account so would have to send it postal mail. Let me lnow. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live Plants All I have extra of is Anacharis http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=110, <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=110,> Guppy Grass http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=174 <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=174> and Duckweed http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=143. <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=143.> Send me your mailing address off-list and I'll send you a small package. You can pay for it after you receive it, through my PayPal link on my blog. The guppy grass might even come with some baby cherry shrimp although I'm thinking they'll flee the grass once I start pulling it out of their tank.. but who knows. There's also snails in that tank so you might get some of them but guppy grass is kind of thin so there's not a lot of space for snails to lay eggs or hang out too much. The duckweed is a small floating plant that will grow like crazy and envelope the entire surface of the tank if the surface is less agitated. In a tank with lots of surface agitation, the duckweed will die back and only grow in areas where there is limited agitation. If you have an HOB filter, you can move it around to see how it affects your surface agitation so you don't have too much cover but still get some. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Live Plants Hey, is anyone pruining their tanks? I'm looking for some easy to grow plants. My one LFS about 30 miles away lol only has anacharis. So I have that but my bulbs I'm trying to grow are not working well. I'd be willing to pay a small amount through paypal and then you wouldnt have to throw away any cuttings! :-) Its worth a try right? Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 1:48:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 2:41:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 2:49:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31272	From: greychildren	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants

hi Lenny I'm also looking for some hardy plants. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I grow out lots of Anacharis so my snails can't really keep up. I also have > it growing out in my goldfish tank (changed the fluorescent tubes recently > and all of my plants are growing like crazy again) and I do not have snails > in there so that is where I'll be taking the cuttings from for the > Anacharis. Send me your address off-list and I'll put together a couple of > packages at the same time. And yes, I still accept normal payments with my > business although they are becoming less and less as a percentage. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live Plants > > Lenny do the snails not eat your anacharis? We guess a few snails hitched a > ride into one of our tanks and they are eating my anacharis up. Luckily it > grows fairly quickly. I would also like some of the guppy grass if you have > enough to share. I did the duckweed and it was a mess to clean the tank so > no more duck weed for me...lol. I could pay the postage for the guppy grass > but do not have a paypal account so would have to send it postal mail. Let > me lnow. > > Heather > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live Plants > > All I have extra of is Anacharis > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=110, > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=110,> Guppy Grass > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=174 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=174> and Duckweed > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=143. > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=143.> Send me your > mailing address off-list and I'll send you a small package. You can pay for > it after you receive it, through my PayPal link on my blog. > > The guppy grass might even come with some baby cherry shrimp although I'm > thinking they'll flee the grass once I start pulling it out of their tank.. > but who knows. There's also snails in that tank so you might get some of > them but guppy grass is kind of thin so there's not a lot of space for > snails to lay eggs or hang out too much. The duckweed is a small floating > plant that will grow like crazy and envelope the entire surface of the tank > if the surface is less agitated. In a tank with lots of surface agitation, > the duckweed will die back and only grow in areas where there is limited > agitation. If you have an HOB filter, you can move it around to see how it > affects your surface agitation so you don't have too much cover but still > get some. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Live Plants > > Hey, is anyone pruining their tanks? I'm looking for some easy to grow > plants. My one LFS about 30 miles away lol only has anacharis. So I have > that but my bulbs I'm trying to grow are not working well. I'd be willing to > pay a small amount through paypal and then you wouldnt have to throw away > any cuttings! :-) Its worth a try right? > Sarah > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 1:48:29 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 2:41:16 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 2:49:58 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31273	From: greychildren	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys

sense were in the cory post i have a question, 1 have 2 cory cats one albino and one looks like a pepper cory but the spots are bigger. the albino cory has not grown sense i have em for about 2 months but the Oder ones gotten huge. is it normal for cory's to make a sound like moving rocks? or did i get some kind of other cat fish sense i purchase him from an assorted cory tank in my lfs? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Do you have your tank set up with sectioned off areas, either using rocks, > lots of plants, driftwood/roots, etc., so the krib can claim a section as > it's territory? Without it's own area, it would be more likely to claim the > entire tank bottom as it's territory and since your cory's are mostly bottom > dwellers, this can pose a problem as you are seeing. If your 29G is > presumably a 29G tall tank, it has the same footprint as a 20G tank (and not > much bigger than the footprint of a 10G) and should be stocked accordingly. > While the added water volume helps with maintaining water chemistry and > diluting pollution between PWC's, it does not really add much more "space" > on the bottom for fish to claim. > > Here's a good profile for reference info. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html > > Here is Fishbase's profile and read over all of the links in the "More Info" > section for more details. > http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of va22_vyshys > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] kribs vs. corys > > 29 gallon tank my female kribensis is a nightmare to my corys. She won't > even let them eat peacefully what can I do to ease this problem? > She killed the two ghost shrimp that I had in the tank. She attacks the > pencilfish but, I would like to breed these fish now I know that they are > aggressive when protecting their young but she is not breeding now. > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 12:14:33 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31274	From: will	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank

what other fish apart from goldfish and minnows can i put in my tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31275	From: greychildren	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank

koi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "will" <easyascess@...> wrote: > > what other fish apart from goldfish and minnows can i put in my tank >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31276	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......

no not yet.....how much should i put in for a 20g tank?>>>>>kate --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Have you started fishless cycling yet, using the plain ammonia? You want to > get that going ASAP while you are researching your fish. Links to Fishless > Cycling are on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cherrystix81 > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 9:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ok u guys....... > > sorry bout that. i wasent sure on water temp so i have had it set on 74f > since i set up again yesterday.......what i meant by the GH level i had > added two drops and it changed to green and stayed that way. it did not > start at all red so i stopped after 15 drops........my water source is > well........and here is a copy of the last feed before i started a new topic > ...oh and i am looking into that website.>>>>> <<well ummm kate here. i > think i may have found my problem. > > so i was like cleaning out the tank when i noticed bits and pieces > in > > my tank. now i knew i had cleaned everything properly, but didnt > > understand why until i noticed a starfish.... ....it had been > > deteriorating in the tank. i did not know it would do that!!!!!!!! > > so i truly am an amatuer:( but now i know how imprtant it is to > have an > > emergency tank setup around the house. i think i will get a 5g or > > something small. > > ok ok now i did some water testing on the water in my house. and i > am > > sharing this cause i need ur help....boy do i. > > so....... PH @ 8.3 > > NH3 NH4 @.0mg/l > > NO2 nitrite <.3mg/l > > GH @ over 40 drops and didnt even change color KH @ 12 drops and > > changed immedietely. > > thnx u guys and yeah i know im a doofus but i didnt think the > starfish > > would hurt i mean it looked really cool in the tank...ah man what a > day. > > i am about done setting up my tank i just need to add the water > again. > > this time i wont add chemicals, i wont be scared of ph, and i will > > listen to my peers. :) >>>>>>kate>> man i feel like a total newbie. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Tell us about the GH levels again. If I recall correctly, when you > first > > tested it, it took some extreme number of drops to get a result. > How many > > drops this time? You just say "changed to green and stayed that > way". > > > > What is your water source again? Public utility or well? > > > > You started a new thread with this email so your prior thread isn't > shown. > > It's best to keep your thread going when you add new info so we can > follow > > things better... or copy/paste info from your previous thread. I > use email > > to read the new messages and reply so my replies include the info > from the > > thread so others can read down from the bottom, up, to see what is > > happening. > > > > Many of those "little sharks" are not suitable for many tanks as > they grow > > into BIG sharks (or rather catfish or other fish since they aren't > really > > sharks). You need to find out the species or at least the common > name and > > give us that (as well as your tank size). > > > > Another good thing to do is check out the species profile on a > reputable > > website. I strongly suggest http://fish.mongabay.com > > <http://fish.mongabay.com> as a very > thorough > > resource for fish profiles. One of the good things about Mongabay > profiles > > is the section called SC - Suggested Companions - which will give > you info > > on suitable tank mates for your fish. If the profile isn't listed > there, > > then there are many other good website resources but check out here > first > > since there are also many BAD website resources out there. I do > have a page > > on my blog that lists many of the reputable websites. For some > fish like > > catfish, cichlids, loaches, etc., there are some specialty websites > that are > > good resources that have profiles where Mongabay may not. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of cherrystix81 > > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] ok u guys....... > > > > alright it has been 24hrs at least and i have retested the water in > the tank > > with a little of the aquasafe and the test results were pretty much > the > > same..... > > so my quistion to all of u who can answer this quistion what kind > of fish > > can i put in my tank???? > > pH 8-8.3 > > NO2-<0.3mg/l > > KH-12 drops > > GH changed to green and stayed that way NH3&NH4-1.5mg/l > > > > i was wanting those little sharks i have been seeing in the pet > store is > > that a possability????? > > > > did i mention that all of you totally rock? well you do:) > > >>>>>kate > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > > 7:17:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/11/2008 9:30:15 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 2:41:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31277	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys

It is the 30x12 variety and there is driftwood and plants a clay pot for breeding in which my male has taken ill. So what would be the suggestion?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31278	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help

Thanks Lenny.  Sorry for the late response but I have been out of town to Texas doing the grand parent thing.    I acturally have four filters (two Fluval 405 and a Penquin 150 and Penquin 200) plus a sponge on a power head feeding a UV sterilizer so I don't expect a problem since I always alternate cleaning (one each week and sponge filter every 2 weeks) of the filters under well tap water of the same temp. as the tank. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 12:55:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Jimmy, Since you have dual filter systems, you do not have to be as concerned as someone with only a single filter system (especially someone with a small filter system whose only filter media might be a single cartridge). On my goldfish tank, where I also have dual filter systems, I can do more thorough cleaning of one of my filters each time I do maintenance and while this thorough cleaning will cause a very small mini-cycle, I've done the testing and can't even get an ammonia or nitrite level to show up after thoroughly cleaning one of my systems. The overwhelming majority of the nitrifying bacteria lives in the filters. Even when I thoroughly clean a filter, I still leave at least one phase of that filter untouched so the N-bacteria in that phase are not harmed. But I also have live plants in my tanks so any small ammonia level that might show up in the first 24 hours would be quickly used up by all of the nitrifying bacteria in the 2nd system the plants and the nitrifying bacteria growing on all of the other surface areas of the tank. While it might seem like you would be killing off up to 50% of your nitrifying bacteria when you do a thorough cleaning of one of your filter systems, it's probably less than 25%. I think that with dual filter systems, the nitrifying bacteria would be spread out with about 40% in each filter system and 20% in the rest of the tank. So if you clean one filter system completely, you could be killing off 40% but if you leave one phase of that system unharmed, they you would only be killing off no more than 25% or less. This means that 75% of your nitrifying bacteria are still in prime condition and the slight extra ammonia would just be considered a little midnight snack for them while the just cleaned filter catches back up on it's N-bacteria colony. Also, as I'm sure you know, you should not clean the Bio-Wheel and this is where the majority of the N-bacteria lives on those filter systems. Dr. Tim Hovanec, when with Marineland, invented the Bio-Wheel as a way for Marineland to still be able to push changing out filter cartridges every month without causing harm to the fish so it was a win-win filter system. Even on my Bio-Wheel systems, I don't change the cartridges since my money is better off in my wallet, rather than Marineland's. .. and I actually add filter media to the cartridge and reservoir since their cartridges are pretty flimsy and do not have much mechanical filtration if used as they come out the package. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Thanks Ray, The ph difference was my main concern. Out of the tap it is about 0.6 difference in ph from my tank. I have two canisters and two biowheels on the tank and I alternate cleaning the media in the tap water. That may be why I haven't detected the mini cycle after doing so. I will start drawing the water needed to clean the media ahead of time so the CO2 can outgas and therefore there will not be as great a difference in ph. Thanks for pointing this out. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ----- Original Message ---- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 10:23:19 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help Jim, I believe I referred to chloramine and/or chlorine in every message I posted on this topic when considering tap water to be avoided for cleaning filter media, which has nothing to do with private well water (having no such additives), and which is why I purposely expressed "chloramine" when referring to that tap water. So, other than your well water's pH possibly being considerably lower, there's no other reason why you wouldn't be able to safely use your tap/well water for this purpose. I do see an issue with a pH difference though (perhaps your isn't that great), especially as you haven't stated what this pH difference might be. Some well water can have a pH difference of at least pH 0.6 or more, which I could see might be detrimental especially if its in the acid range.. Acid water is not very conducive to the longevity of bacteria in general. If you haven't detected any noticeable difference in the performance of your nitrifying bacteria, I wouldn't worry about it too much, but its something to consider if you ever see a problem. If preferring to use your tap water, rather than drawing a bucket of aquarium water, you might want to use a bucket of tap water that has been allowed to off-gas its CO2. Getting back to the effects of chloramine on nitrifying bacteria though, I highly suspect an error in the calculation of a safe-time duration of 5 minutes as still being sustainable for life of these nitrifiers. When chloramine was first introduced in this area some 18 years ago (with little if any notification) , I witnessed much higher life forms (FISH) get totally decimated (killed) by exposures of only 10 minutes to this disinfectant. I would think that should say something for its effects. Quantities of this water supply additive can vary from 0.5ppm to 2.0ppm as for the amount of chloramine being used by any one supplier, but then too, it should be considered that much colder water in winter has the capacity hold greater amounts of any gases per volume of the water being supplied. The effects of chloramine to water in winter cannot readily be seen as it doesn't off-gas, but when chlorine was previously used during the coldest seasons, the much larger capacity for water to hold increased amounts of gas were quite obvious as when first drawn, this tap water had noticeable clouds of chlorine gas bubbles rising through it accompanied by its distinctive smell -- regardless of how much or how little of the gas the supplier put in it at its treatment plant. The water just had the tendancy to absorb more per cubic foot because of its lower temperature. I'd suspect the amount of chlorine in the water supply obtained at the receiving end was much greater than the amount the water supplier intended when introducing the disinfectant at the treament plant end. Then too, the amount of these gases will also vary in proportion to how far the outlet (tap) is from the pumping plant, which is still something to consider today with chloramine (I was within 2 miles of the treatment plant). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@. ..> wrote: > > Ray, Lenny and Steve, > > Does the advice of always using tank water to clean filter media apply to well water that does not contain chlorine and chloramine. The ph is depressed with CO2 but rises to the tank ph quickly.. The temperature of the well (tap) water is the same temperature as the tank. I have been cleaning my filter media under the well (tap) water without any detectable mini cycling problems so far. > > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 6:21:56 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > Hi David, Good to see your aquarium water's ph is no different than > your tap water's pH; this makes PWC's relatively stress-free for your > fish and much easier to do with nothing to be concerned about in that > dcepartment. For most hobbyists maintaining their tanks with frequent > and adequate PWC's, they'll find that their tank water will > closely follow the parameters of that of their source water (which we > try to encourage for ease of maintenance, rather than changing the > tank to an environment drastically different). > > While, with the pH not changing from tap to tank, even if you get the > temperature close this should not be regarded as being sufficiently > prudent in allowing your filter media to be cleaned under tap water > conditions, even if stress to bacteria is minimized as a reult of > these factors. We have never encouraged the cleaning of filter media > in tap water, and have always endeavored to dissuade the hobbyist from > doing so on this Forum always promoting instead the use of aquarium > water in doing so whenever possible. > > You may of course do as you wish according to what's most convenient > for you, but drawing a bucket of aquarium water which you will be > discarding anyway with your PWC would not involve that much more work, > yet would ensure that your bacteria colonies remain intact. > Even though you may be much faster than 5 minutes in cleaning your > filter media under the tap, other members here may take allowing this > as not needing to pay any heed to their bacteria being killed off by > chloramines and may simply allow their media to soak in tap water > while they perform other maintenance chores, effectively wiping out > their colonies. If you'll note, by Grey's post, this seems to be the > very reason why he is having a bacterial bloom and mini-cycle going on > as a results of using tap water in cleaning his media. Please consider > this when cleaning yours. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@ > > wrote: > > > > haha true enough. My ph out of the tap is identical to whats in my > tank, and > > i think its kind of high, somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6.My fish > seem ok with > > it so far, accept pleco's they always seem to die on me and i think > thats > > why. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ > > ..>wrote: > > > > > One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only the > chlorine/chloramine > > > in > > > tap water that causes the N-bacteria deaths in the filter media. > After all, > > > if tap water had enough chlorine/chloramine in it to kill bacteria > > > instantly, we wouldn't have to use more stringent cleaning agents > to > > > disinfect things. From all I've read it would take soaking > something for at > > > least five minutes or more before the low level of > chlorine/chloramine in > > > tap water to actually kill any bacteria. > > > > > > The thing that does kill off more of the N-bacteria is the > usually abrupt > > > pH, hardness (osmotic) and temperature change which likely puts > the > > > N-bacteria into shock and then makes them more susceptible to > harm/death. > > > This is why it's best to clean the filter media in removed tank > water so > > > the > > > water parameters are very similar to what the bacteria are > acclimated to. > > > > > > I've seen posts in other forums where people would add dechlor to > some tap > > > water and then clean their filter media in that water but they > would likely > > > suffer a larger N-bacteria kill-off when doing it this way > because of the > > > temperature, pH and osmotic stress issues caused by such a > drastic change > > > in > > > water parameters. > > > > > > It's bad enough for them to see these giant King Kong like hands > grabbing > > > their "villages" and squeezing them like putty but to then throw > their > > > "villages" into colder or hotter water and slosh them around even > more... > > > well, you get the picture. ;-) > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > > referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto: > > > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help:white cloudy water:Help > > > > > > Ray that answers alot i used tap water to clean the two filter > medium, and > > > i > > > changed them tat the same time. will not make that mistake again.. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com><mailto: > > > AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. . com>> , > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, I guess you could keep this all in the same thread, as > its > > > > all related. Grey may get some further input from this for his > problem > > > > too. Yes, you've read right -- changing filter media can cause > > > > mini-cycle issues. Whenever possible, if your filter allows, its > > > > always best to change the filter mediUM (lol), i.e., to just > change > > > > one part of the filter media, then change the other part of the > filter > > > > media the next time you do filter maintenance if it needs it > (unless > > > > cleaning it is all it needs at the time). Some filter have only > one > > > > cartridge, but most have two. > > > > > > > > When cleaning you filter media, that should be done also in two > parts, > > > > at alternating times -- and then, never clean your filter media > using > > > > your tap water (it will kill your nitrifying bacteria), but use > a pail > > > > of your aquarium water instead. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.. com <AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > , "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I don't know if this should be a new topic, as the > topic > > > > at hand > > > > > is not my problem, or have i even had a problem...however i > read > > > > here > > > > > several times now that changing filter media can cause > issues, mini > > > > cycles > > > > > and such, which have other effects on the tank. So my > question is, > > > > what is > > > > > the procedure to changing the media so that you can build up > the > > > > bacteria > > > > > content of the new media without affecting the old media so > the > > > > swap is > > > > > close to seamless? How do most of you change your filter > media? I am > > > > > speaking currently in reference to 20-40 gallon tanks as that > is > > > > what i > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, Okay, some nitrite test results (when you see your > way > > > > > > clear) may help us further in determining why you have this > cloudy > > > > > > tank condition, although posts by all up 'till now indicate > you > > > > may > > > > > > have a mini-cycle going on for one reason or another. Your > lights > > > > > > being left off for one day would not affect this cloudiness > one > > > > way > > > > > > or another, even if it were a greenish cloudiness caused by > > > > > > phytoplankton as this short-term light deprivation would > not yet > > > > > > impact suspended algae if that were your problem -- and > should not > > > > > > affect a bacterial bloom, that most probably being your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often these mini-cycles clear by their own, although > I do > > > > note > > > > > > that yours has been an ongoing one for a bit of time now. I > don't > > > > > > know what you may have done to acerbate your problem in the > > > > interum, > > > > > > although changing out your filter completely would surely > be a > > > > major > > > > > > adverse factor towards this end. Good to see that the > cloudiness > > > > is > > > > > > starting to clear; hopefully it will continue to do so. > Keep us > > > > > > posted on further developments. With the help you've been > given by > > > > > > others here, you should be able to better keep things under > > > > control. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. . com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" <greychildren@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > next week i will pick up a nitrite test kit sense i dont > have > > > > one( > > > > > > > budget is kind of bad now on days) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw i left the lights off in the tank yesturday an turn > it back > > > > on > > > > > > > today an its less cloudy. > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, Alright, this kit does give results for nitrate, > in > > > > levels > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > from 0.0 mg/L to 110.0 mg/L (ppm) -- but as far as I > know, > > > > does > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > give measurements at the much smaller levels of 0.01ppm > which > > > > you > > > > > > > > indicate. Perhaps you are mis-reading something. There > are 3 > > > > > > > > different reagents accompanying this kit. Are you using > each > > > > one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the three? In proper sequence? You have not given > results for > > > > > > > > nitrite yet, either, which we will need as info towards > > > > > > determining > > > > > > > > the cause of your problem. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies on the post. I use nutrafin salt and > fresh > > > > water > > > > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > > > > test kit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Grey, I'd first like to mention, when replying to > > > > > > someone's > > > > > > > > post > > > > > > > > > > its always adviseable to enter your message on top, > as the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > to be seen. Otherwise, with having my previous > message > > > > above > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > reply, it may appear as though I'm adding to my own > > > > message > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > others may not see your reply at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't given any nitrite reading; have > you > > > > tested > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > this. At least you're getting some nitrate, but > 0.01ppm is > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > nothing whereas for a 7 month old tank (apparently > well > > > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > > > and cycled) it would normally read at least 5.0ppm > to > > > > 20.0ppm > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > could be higher depending on how much and how > frequent > > > > you do > > > > > > > > PWC's.. > > > > > > > > > > Your plants will be using some of these nitrates, > but not > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > that it would only read 0.01ppm. Note: This test > reading > > > > is > > > > > > > > faulty > > > > > > > > > > as nitrate tests do not indicate results that minute > > > > > > (small). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A clay pot would not add to those nutrients > required of > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > food, and would not add to the support of this > bacterial > > > > > > bloom. > > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists do not clean the gravel too close to their > > > > plants, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > least don't deep clean that portion of the gravel. > There > > > > is > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > reason why cleaning the gravel up to any rocks > can't be > > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > > don't need to clean under the rocks as no detris > can get > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > you to have a bacterial bloom, you either are going > > > > through a > > > > > > > > mini- > > > > > > > > > > cycle (your cycle having been interupted) or there > are > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > > waste nutrients for these bacteria to feed on. I'm > also > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > your ammonia reading because of this, and still do > not > > > > know > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > nitrite level. What type and brand of test kit are > you > > > > using? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When cleaning the gravel, did you deep clean it, or > just > > > > do > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > surface? Did you remove all of the "used" snail > shells > > > > which > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > contain snail remnants that the loaches didn't get? > If you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > overfeeding, that would show up in the ammonia test > (and > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > if your test results are faulty). You may want to > look for > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > that have "disappeared" as they too will add to > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > allowed to decompose (if dead in the tank) when not > > > > removed. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "Raymond Wetzel" > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grey, The first question we need you to answer > is > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > cloudiness is gray or green(?).. Then, unless > you made > > > > a > > > > > > typo > > > > > > > > > > error, > > > > > > > > > > > > you are stating you have no nitrate > concentrations at > > > > all > > > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > > > > you do > > > > > > > > > > > > not indicate any nitrite level). If these are > your > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > parameters, > > > > > > > > > > > > it would appear as though your cycle is not > completed > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > getting any nitrate levels. By this, it looks > like > > > > your > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > converting bacteria are not yet established > enough to > > > > > > convert > > > > > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > > > > > > into nitrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite often, a newly set up tank, even if fully > > > > cycled, > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > experience a temporary bacterial bloom (gray > > > > cloudiness) > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > almost always aleviate itself in time (usually > short > > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > often too, large changes of fresh water will > only > > > > serve > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > add to > > > > > > > > > > > > this problem, especially if your tap water > contains > > > > their > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > nutrients (have you tested your tap water?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, if this is seen as a greenish > > > > > > cloudiness, > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously suspended algae (phytoplankton) which > is > > > > > > feeding > > > > > > > > off of > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > available nutrients (which may be partially why > the > > > > > > > > parameters > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > give are near zero) if your live plants are not > > > > numerous > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet established, also depending on the > amount and > > > > > > > > duration of > > > > > > > > > > > > light you are giving the tank, along with any > > > > nutrients > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > adding to your tank with PWC's -- including any > > > > > > phosphates -- > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > algae can out-compete any inadequate population > of > > > > plants > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > giving > > > > > > > > > > > > them everything they need. If your water is > greenish, > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > > > any info you can on your plantings and on the > lighting > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > providing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With an incompletely cycled tank especially, you > > > > should > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > do a > > > > > > > > > > > > complete gravel cleaning at one time, but > instead do > > > > half > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate, alternating sides each week, to help > retain > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > > > > > > bacteria the gravel supports. To clean all the > gravel > > > > of > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > partially cycled tank is to invite a bacterial > bloom > > > > and > > > > > > > > extend > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > cycling period. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups. com>> > > > <AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > > "greychildren" > > > > > > > > > > <greychildren@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need some help with my tanks water.. i tried > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my cloudy water in my 40g tank.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. 50% water change 2. Clear ease 3. pH is at > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6.8 4. Nitrate 0 5... Ammonia 0 6. Iron .1 7. > > > > > > > > > > > > > kH 6 8. I did a gravel clean on Saturday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tank has natural plants and an air stone.. > and > > > > yes i > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > > > > that are driving me crazy purchase 2 Clown > loaches > > > > > > snail > > > > > > > > > > population > > > > > > > > > > > > > still not down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I been having this problem for several months > now > > > > and > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > the end > > > > > > > > > > > > > of my rope with the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my apologies ray nitrate level is .01 according > to the > > > > > > nutrafin > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > > > kit i have. The tank been running for 7 months > already. > > > > i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > tested the tap water for nitrates i will do it > today. I > > > > > > added a > > > > > > > > clay > > > > > > > > > > > pot about 2 months ago can that be the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its a grayish cloudiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i also replaced the light bulb on my hood > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when i did the gravel cleaning i did not get to > all the > > > > > > gravel > > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > > > there's plants and rocks in the way. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081008-1, 10/08/2008 Tested on: 10/8/2008 > > > 4:34:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 11:47:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean.. Virus Database (VPS): 081009-0, 10/09/2008 Tested on: 10/9/2008 12:55:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31279	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Betta fish

I listen to an internet radio broadcast of Tom and Nevin Bailey about Betta fish. They say you can have male Bettas in the same tank if they have 3 feet between them and 6 or so females. I have a 45 gallon tank 36" long x 12" wide x 24" tall. Could I have one male and 6 females? And can I run my Whisper filter or do they have to have water that doesn't move at all? Thanks Jennie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31280	From: Alina	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: It's working ...thanks

Since this morning's numbers, one more 20% PWC, Nitrites went down to 1.o; and four hours later, .50. I'm going to do one more PWC before I got to bed and bait for snails. I honestly don't see any anymore, though I know they must be there, and remove them in the a.m. Once I get these down to 0, anything more I should do?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31281	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Thanks for the pleco/sucker mouth articles

I wanted to say thanks for the info on feeding the sucker mouth fish. We have a garden and my mom had a smaller zuccini that was left over from that. We sliced off a chunk and rubber banded it (until i can get a clip) to a decoration. It took him all of 5 minutes to find it and latch on. I'm glad you got me this info, i feel alot better about caring for this sort of fish now. I am curious how my friends two monster pleco's survive. to the best of my knowledge he does not feed them anything special. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31282	From: Chris	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's working ...thanks

Its too bad you cannot use the old beer in a cup trick. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > Since this morning's numbers, one more 20% PWC, Nitrites went down to > 1.o; and four hours later, .50. > > I'm going to do one more PWC before I got to bed and bait for snails. I > honestly don't see any anymore, though I know they must be there, and > remove them in the a.m. > > Once I get these down to 0, anything more I should do? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31283	From: Chris	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Strange Foam

There is a build up of bubbles where my bubble curtain breaks surface. I'm sure it isn't detergent since the containers I use to refil the tank haven't been touched by detergents and don't foam when I fill them. Your thoughts please.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31284	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys

You need to get some good pics of your catfish and post them here or on your own online photo album. Give us a whack at ID'ing them but if we can't, http://www.planetcatfish.com has an "ID My Catfish" forum. There are many different species of Corydoras so it could be the albino is one that is a much smaller species than the other one... there are even Pygmy Corydoras. This Mongabay list of profiles has many of the common Cory's listed and the "Pictures" link near the top of each profile so you may ID yours just be browsing these pictures. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras_pygmaeus.html The Striped Raphael Catfish (Platydoras costatus) is also called the Talking Catfish as it makes clicking noises. Maybe you got one of them. I'm sure there are other "talking" catfish. http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=166 You really need to ID your fish as it seems you could potentially be overstocked, especially if you don't know what you have. How many kribs do you have and am I reading correctly that you only have two unidentified catfish, that you thought were miscellaneous corydoras? What else do you have in the tank? Are you planning a tank upgrade soon? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: kribs vs. corys sense were in the cory post i have a question, 1 have 2 cory cats one albino and one looks like a pepper cory but the spots are bigger. the albino cory has not grown sense i have em for about 2 months but the Oder ones gotten huge. is it normal for cory's to make a sound like moving rocks? or did i get some kind of other cat fish sense i purchase him from an assorted cory tank in my lfs? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Do you have your tank set up with sectioned off areas, either using rocks, > lots of plants, driftwood/roots, etc., so the krib can claim a section as > it's territory? Without it's own area, it would be more likely to claim the > entire tank bottom as it's territory and since your cory's are mostly bottom > dwellers, this can pose a problem as you are seeing. If your 29G is > presumably a 29G tall tank, it has the same footprint as a 20G tank (and not > much bigger than the footprint of a 10G) and should be stocked accordingly. > While the added water volume helps with maintaining water chemistry > and diluting pollution between PWC's, it does not really add much more "space" > on the bottom for fish to claim. > > Here's a good profile for reference info. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html> > > Here is Fishbase's profile and read over all of the links in the "More Info" > section for more details. > http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778 > <http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of va22_vyshys > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] kribs vs. corys > > 29 gallon tank my female kribensis is a nightmare to my corys. She > won't even let them eat peacefully what can I do to ease this problem? > She killed the two ghost shrimp that I had in the tank. She attacks > the pencilfish but, I would like to breed these fish now I know that they are > aggressive when protecting their young but she is not breeding now. > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 > 12:14:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 3:38:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:17:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank

This page http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm has some common cool/coldwater fish. The last time I checked, the link to "Native Fish" was mis-directed to Zebra Danio's which are a cool/cold water fish but if you also check http://www.NANFA.org (North American Native Fishes Assn.), you can find more, but like goldfish, many cool/cold water fish get quite large and need to be in BIG tanks. For example, two fancy goldfish would need at least a 55G tank for long term success and healthy fish. The long-bodied goldfish need even bigger tanks as they are much bigger swimmers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of will Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank what other fish apart from goldfish and minnows can i put in my tank ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 3:38:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:22:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31286	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......

scratch that last entry...read about the fishless cycling and have brought up temp to 80f and used plain ammonia..thnx now i am looking into types of fish.>>>>>kate --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cherrystix81" <cherrystix81@...> wrote: > > no not yet.....how much should i put in for a 20g tank?>>>>>kate > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Have you started fishless cycling yet, using the plain ammonia? > You want to > > get that going ASAP while you are researching your fish. Links to > Fishless > > Cycling are on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of cherrystix81 > > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 9:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ok u guys....... > > > > sorry bout that. i wasent sure on water temp so i have had it set > on 74f > > since i set up again yesterday.......what i meant by the GH level i > had > > added two drops and it changed to green and stayed that way. it did > not > > start at all red so i stopped after 15 drops........my water source > is > > well........and here is a copy of the last feed before i started a > new topic > > ...oh and i am looking into that website.>>>>> <<well ummm kate > here. i > > think i may have found my problem. > > > so i was like cleaning out the tank when i noticed bits and pieces > > in > > > my tank. now i knew i had cleaned everything properly, but didnt > > > understand why until i noticed a starfish.... ....it had been > > > deteriorating in the tank. i did not know it would do that!!!!!!!! > > > so i truly am an amatuer:( but now i know how imprtant it is to > > have an > > > emergency tank setup around the house. i think i will get a 5g or > > > something small. > > > ok ok now i did some water testing on the water in my house. and i > > am > > > sharing this cause i need ur help....boy do i. > > > so....... PH @ 8.3 > > > NH3 NH4 @.0mg/l > > > NO2 nitrite <.3mg/l > > > GH @ over 40 drops and didnt even change color KH @ 12 drops and > > > changed immedietely. > > > thnx u guys and yeah i know im a doofus but i didnt think the > > starfish > > > would hurt i mean it looked really cool in the tank...ah man what > a > > day. > > > i am about done setting up my tank i just need to add the water > > again. > > > this time i wont add chemicals, i wont be scared of ph, and i will > > > listen to my peers. :) >>>>>>kate>> man i feel like a total > newbie. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Tell us about the GH levels again. If I recall correctly, when you > > first > > > tested it, it took some extreme number of drops to get a result. > > How many > > > drops this time? You just say "changed to green and stayed that > > way". > > > > > > What is your water source again? Public utility or well? > > > > > > You started a new thread with this email so your prior thread > isn't > > shown. > > > It's best to keep your thread going when you add new info so we > can > > follow > > > things better... or copy/paste info from your previous thread. I > > use email > > > to read the new messages and reply so my replies include the info > > from the > > > thread so others can read down from the bottom, up, to see what is > > > happening. > > > > > > Many of those "little sharks" are not suitable for many tanks as > > they grow > > > into BIG sharks (or rather catfish or other fish since they aren't > > really > > > sharks). You need to find out the species or at least the common > > name and > > > give us that (as well as your tank size). > > > > > > Another good thing to do is check out the species profile on a > > reputable > > > website. I strongly suggest http://fish.mongabay.com > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com> as a very > > thorough > > > resource for fish profiles. One of the good things about Mongabay > > profiles > > > is the section called SC - Suggested Companions - which will give > > you info > > > on suitable tank mates for your fish. If the profile isn't listed > > there, > > > then there are many other good website resources but check out > here > > first > > > since there are also many BAD website resources out there. I do > > have a page > > > on my blog that lists many of the reputable websites. For some > > fish like > > > catfish, cichlids, loaches, etc., there are some specialty > websites > > that are > > > good resources that have profiles where Mongabay may not. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of cherrystix81 > > > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:34 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] ok u guys....... > > > > > > alright it has been 24hrs at least and i have retested the water > in > > the tank > > > with a little of the aquasafe and the test results were pretty > much > > the > > > same..... > > > so my quistion to all of u who can answer this quistion what kind > > of fish > > > can i put in my tank???? > > > pH 8-8.3 > > > NO2-<0.3mg/l > > > KH-12 drops > > > GH changed to green and stayed that way NH3&NH4-1.5mg/l > > > > > > i was wanting those little sharks i have been seeing in the pet > > store is > > > that a possability????? > > > > > > did i mention that all of you totally rock? well you do:) > > > >>>>>kate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > > > 7:17:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > > Tested on: 10/11/2008 9:30:15 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > > Tested on: 10/12/2008 2:41:03 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31287	From: mike	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: cycling complete?

ok thanks. A 90% pwc ? wow. almost there --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well it won't hurt to cycle it to 4-5ppm but if your bioload will not be > that large, the N-bacteria will just die down to a level that will handle > your bioload. The 4-5ppm level is recommended for a FW tank where the user > wants to stock the tank with a nearly full bioload as soon as it's done > fishless cycling. It's OK for your nitrates to get high during the fishless > cycle. That's why you do the 90% PWC at the end of the fishless cycle. Of > course, doing smaller PWC's during the fishless cycle won't hurt as long as > you bring the ammonia level back up to 4-5ppm. If you ever do see your > cycle kind of stall, do a PWC, or properly dose with baking soda to get the > KH level back up but you may not have that issue. I don't have it with my > water which is relatively hard down here. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cycling complete? > > yeah thanx i thought that. its saltwater i said that much.i did 5 ppm on > ammonia because thats what i saw on posts.i only did a big 40% PWC because i > had to repain a pinhole leak that was on bottom of internal overflow box & > the nitrates were very high & still are > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Yes, you need to keep feeding the ammonia eating bacteria or they > will start > > to die off. That will mean less nitrite so the nitrite eating > bacteria will > > start to die or not grow a full colony also. > > > > Is this going to be a saltwater/marine tank or a freshwater tank? > You > > mention saltwater and I'm not sure you need to cycle a SW tank to > 5ppm of > > ammonia since you will not have as big of a bioload in a SW tank > compared to > > FW tanks. > > > > Why did you do a 40% PWC? I know that sometimes, PWC's are needed > if your > > KH levels get too low as that will stall the cycling but I just > wanted to > > check and clarify for other readers. > > > > Your nitrites aren't peaking yet. They should get much higher than > 1.5ppm > > at their peak but this will only happen if you keep dosing the > ammonia daily > > or as needed whenever it gets back down to 0-1ppm. Do not overdose > the > > ammonia over 4-5ppm or that could stall things badly. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of mike > > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] cycling complete? > > > > ok, I've cycled for over a month (trickle filter, saltwater, > fishless added > > amonia to 5 ppm) and now my amonia is 0. My nitrite is toward the > top of > > chart at 1.5 ppm which leads me to think that the secondary > bacteria isn't > > complete but my nitrate are also high on chart at 40-50 ppm. This > is right > > after a 40% PWC. > > > > Should I add a little ammonia every day so the bacteria still has a > food > > source? How long does it take for the bacteria to die? > > > > I'm thinking I need more time until the nitrites come down more. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008 > Tested on: 10/10/2008 10:53:27 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31288	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank

Koi cannot be kept in normal aquariums for very long... only as fry and maybe for a little while as juvis. They grow to 30"+ and need around 500G per fish as adults. They need built-in swimming pool sized ponds... including the 6' depths. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank koi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "will" <easyascess@...> wrote: > > what other fish apart from goldfish and minnows can i put in my tank > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 4:08:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:24:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: ok u guys.......

To start off, 3 drops per gallon (of the plain non-sudsy, no scents ammonia - it should read 10% ammonium hydroxide or 10% ammonia/90% water on the ingredients list and that's all). Since droppers are not comparatively accurate, after doing 3 drops per gallon, test the ammonia level and either add a little more ammonia or do a PWC to get the ammonia level between 4-5ppm. DO NOT go over 5ppm as that will actually slow the fishless cycle down. At least with your hard water, you won't have any slowdowns in yoru fishless cycle that some folks with not-so-hard water have when their KH level gets too low. Keep a log of everything you are doing with your fishless cycle so you can give us accurate info if there is a problem. The fishless cycle link on my A to Z page is pretty simple to follow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cherrystix81 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ok u guys....... no not yet.....how much should i put in for a 20g tank?>>>>>kate --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Have you started fishless cycling yet, using the plain ammonia? You want to > get that going ASAP while you are researching your fish. Links to Fishless > Cycling are on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of cherrystix81 > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 9:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ok u guys....... > > sorry bout that. i wasent sure on water temp so i have had it set on 74f > since i set up again yesterday.......what i meant by the GH level i had > added two drops and it changed to green and stayed that way. it did not > start at all red so i stopped after 15 drops........my water source is > well........and here is a copy of the last feed before i started a new topic > ...oh and i am looking into that website.>>>>> <<well ummm kate here. i > think i may have found my problem. > > so i was like cleaning out the tank when i noticed bits and pieces > in > > my tank. now i knew i had cleaned everything properly, but didnt > > understand why until i noticed a starfish.... ....it had been > > deteriorating in the tank. i did not know it would do that!!!!!!!! > > so i truly am an amatuer:( but now i know how imprtant it is to > have an > > emergency tank setup around the house. i think i will get a 5g or > > something small. > > ok ok now i did some water testing on the water in my house. and i > am > > sharing this cause i need ur help....boy do i. > > so....... PH @ 8.3 > > NH3 NH4 @.0mg/l > > NO2 nitrite <.3mg/l > > GH @ over 40 drops and didnt even change color KH @ 12 drops and > > changed immedietely. > > thnx u guys and yeah i know im a doofus but i didnt think the > starfish > > would hurt i mean it looked really cool in the tank...ah man what a > day. > > i am about done setting up my tank i just need to add the water > again. > > this time i wont add chemicals, i wont be scared of ph, and i will > > listen to my peers. :) >>>>>>kate>> man i feel like a total newbie. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Tell us about the GH levels again. If I recall correctly, when you > first > > tested it, it took some extreme number of drops to get a result. > How many > > drops this time? You just say "changed to green and stayed that > way". > > > > What is your water source again? Public utility or well? > > > > You started a new thread with this email so your prior thread isn't > shown. > > It's best to keep your thread going when you add new info so we can > follow > > things better... or copy/paste info from your previous thread. I > use email > > to read the new messages and reply so my replies include the info > from the > > thread so others can read down from the bottom, up, to see what is > > happening. > > > > Many of those "little sharks" are not suitable for many tanks as > they grow > > into BIG sharks (or rather catfish or other fish since they aren't > really > > sharks). You need to find out the species or at least the common > name and > > give us that (as well as your tank size). > > > > Another good thing to do is check out the species profile on a > reputable > > website. I strongly suggest http://fish.mongabay.com > > <http://fish.mongabay.com> <http://fish.mongabay.com > > <http://fish.mongabay.com> > as a very > thorough > > resource for fish profiles. One of the good things about Mongabay > profiles > > is the section called SC - Suggested Companions - which will give > you info > > on suitable tank mates for your fish. If the profile isn't listed > there, > > then there are many other good website resources but check out here > first > > since there are also many BAD website resources out there. I do > have a page > > on my blog that lists many of the reputable websites. For some > fish like > > catfish, cichlids, loaches, etc., there are some specialty websites > that are > > good resources that have profiles where Mongabay may not. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of cherrystix81 > > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 5:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] ok u guys....... > > > > alright it has been 24hrs at least and i have retested the water in > the tank > > with a little of the aquasafe and the test results were pretty much > the > > same..... > > so my quistion to all of u who can answer this quistion what kind > of fish > > can i put in my tank???? > > pH 8-8.3 > > NO2-<0.3mg/l > > KH-12 drops > > GH changed to green and stayed that way NH3&NH4-1.5mg/l > > > > i was wanting those little sharks i have been seeing in the pet > store is > > that a possability????? > > > > did i mention that all of you totally rock? well you do:) > > >>>>>kate > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > > 7:17:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/11/2008 > 9:30:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 > 2:41:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 4:19:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:28:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Betta fish

You can try. I've seen some people have success with keeping a single male and multiple females in a large enough tank but I've seen others where they were at each other bad. Have standby tanks ready (or a tank separator ready) just in case things go wrong. If you put your HOB filter on one end of the tank in the corner and raise the water level up to the bottom of the waterfall so the water does not cause as much surface agitation, the male would likely take up the other end of the tank for any bubble nesting. Or you could make other DIY modifications to the water fall.. we just discussed these other modifications out here in the past week or so. Do a search for 'waterfall modification' and you'll find my and others posts about ideas. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta fish I listen to an internet radio broadcast of Tom and Nevin Bailey about Betta fish. They say you can have male Bettas in the same tank if they have 3 feet between them and 6 or so females. I have a 45 gallon tank 36" long x 12" wide x 24" tall. Could I have one male and 6 females? And can I run my Whisper filter or do they have to have water that doesn't move at all? Thanks Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:37:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31291	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's working ...thanks

Once your ammonia and nitrite readings are consistently at 0.0ppm, then the only increasing numbers you should see is with your nitrates. You should still do a 25% PWC on a weekly basis, for the average tank, but you can also test your nitrate levels and whenever they get up to or over 30ppm, you could do a 25% PWC. The nitrate level, while one of the guidelines, is not the only one since live plants might utilize the nitrates so they never get high but PWC's would still be needed. Other things to test for are KH and GH and if the KH level starts to drop too much, then a PWC is needed. As a general guideline, doing weekly PWC's are sufficient for properly stocked tanks that are not having problems (with snails) and are not being overfed. There are many exceptions to the rules in fish keeping. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] It's working ...thanks Since this morning's numbers, one more 20% PWC, Nitrites went down to 1.o; and four hours later, .50. I'm going to do one more PWC before I got to bed and bait for snails. I honestly don't see any anymore, though I know they must be there, and remove them in the a.m. Once I get these down to 0, anything more I should do? ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 8:24:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:41:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks for the pleco/sucker mouth articles

All catfish are scavengers for the most part so they likely found food... or even other fish to snack on. You will see where this is an issue in that article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 7:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thanks for the pleco/sucker mouth articles I wanted to say thanks for the info on feeding the sucker mouth fish. We have a garden and my mom had a smaller zuccini that was left over from that. We sliced off a chunk and rubber banded it (until i can get a clip) to a decoration. It took him all of 5 minutes to find it and latch on. I'm glad you got me this info, i feel alot better about caring for this sort of fish now. I am curious how my friends two monster pleco's survive. to the best of my knowledge he does not feed them anything special. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:43:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's working ...thanks

I know that trap has worked for me on many occasions. ;-) (hiccup!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's working ...thanks Its too bad you cannot use the old beer in a cup trick. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > Since this morning's numbers, one more 20% PWC, Nitrites went down to > 1.o; and four hours later, .50. > > I'm going to do one more PWC before I got to bed and bait for snails. > I honestly don't see any anymore, though I know they must be there, > and remove them in the a.m. > > Once I get these down to 0, anything more I should do? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:43:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31294	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Some medicines will foam. Are you still medicating the tank? If not meds, then high protein levels will cause foaming. This is why SW tanks use protein skimmers and filter systems for that issue. In a FW tank, it means "It's time for another PWC!" Have you been feeding your fish high protein foods? If no, then look around for a dead/decaying fish or the remains of one. Protein rich foods will cause more frequent water fouling issues but some fish need it (carnivores and omnivores) so it's just part of the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Strange Foam There is a build up of bubbles where my bubble curtain breaks surface. I'm sure it isn't detergent since the containers I use to refil the tank haven't been touched by detergents and don't foam when I fill them. Your thoughts please. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:49:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31295	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Most likely the foam you are seeing is due to a high level of Dissolved Organic Carbons (DOC) in your tank's water. If your water is soft, you will see more foaming, less so if your water is hard. The way to resolve the issue is to do water changes religiously. You will accumulate a certain amount of DOC in the normal course of events. If you suddenly have a high level, as indicated by the foaming where water is agitated, there is a problem in your tank, as blenny mentions, and you will need to find the source of it. If it is a gradual build up, then you need to change more water to reduce the level of DOC and keep it low. There is no test kit for DOC, as many substances can be involved. Your best indicator is the foaming you have observed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 9:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Strange Foam There is a build up of bubbles where my bubble curtain breaks surface. I'm sure it isn't detergent since the containers I use to refil the tank haven't been touched by detergents and don't foam when I fill them. Your thoughts please.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31296	From: Alina	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's working ...thanks

After another 10% PWC tonight, numbers are a little different: Ammonia .25; nitrites at .50; and nitrates are 5 (down from 10 earlier today). Given the foible of yesterday when I forced it down to zero, I take it ammonia being slightly up is good? If it isn't, I'm going to have to have that beer in a cup myself. :-( --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Once your ammonia and nitrite readings are consistently at 0.0ppm, then the > only increasing numbers you should see is with your nitrates. You should > still do a 25% PWC on a weekly basis, for the average tank, but you can also > test your nitrate levels and whenever they get up to or over 30ppm, you > could do a 25% PWC. The nitrate level, while one of the guidelines, is not > the only one since live plants might utilize the nitrates so they never get > high but PWC's would still be needed. Other things to test for are KH and > GH and if the KH level starts to drop too much, then a PWC is needed. As a > general guideline, doing weekly PWC's are sufficient for properly stocked > tanks that are not having problems (with snails) and are not being overfed. > There are many exceptions to the rules in fish keeping. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 7:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] It's working ...thanks > > > Since this morning's numbers, one more 20% PWC, Nitrites went down to 1.o; > and four hours later, .50. > > I'm going to do one more PWC before I got to bed and bait for snails. I > honestly don't see any anymore, though I know they must be there, and remove > them in the a.m. > > Once I get these down to 0, anything more I should do? > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 8:24:04 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:41:15 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31297	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: It's working ...thanks

Well, it's not necessarily good since the best thing is 0.0 for ammonia and nitrites. But it does mean you do not have a large enough ammonia eating bacteria colony. Since you are getting nitrites and nitrate (the nitrates keep going down due to your PWC's), it means your biological filtration (the nitrogen cycle) is at least working but just not up to speed to handle the bioload of ammonia created by the fish/critters/detritus in your tank. Just keep testing and doing PWC's until it catches up which should be pretty soon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's working ...thanks After another 10% PWC tonight, numbers are a little different: Ammonia .25; nitrites at .50; and nitrates are 5 (down from 10 earlier today). Given the foible of yesterday when I forced it down to zero, I take it ammonia being slightly up is good? If it isn't, I'm going to have to have that beer in a cup myself. :-( --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Once your ammonia and nitrite readings are consistently at 0.0ppm, then the > only increasing numbers you should see is with your nitrates. You should > still do a 25% PWC on a weekly basis, for the average tank, but you can also > test your nitrate levels and whenever they get up to or over 30ppm, you > could do a 25% PWC. The nitrate level, while one of the guidelines, is not > the only one since live plants might utilize the nitrates so they never get > high but PWC's would still be needed. Other things to test for are KH and > GH and if the KH level starts to drop too much, then a PWC is needed. As a > general guideline, doing weekly PWC's are sufficient for properly stocked > tanks that are not having problems (with snails) and are not being overfed. > There are many exceptions to the rules in fish keeping. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 7:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] It's working ...thanks > > > Since this morning's numbers, one more 20% PWC, Nitrites went down to 1.o; > and four hours later, .50. > > I'm going to do one more PWC before I got to bed and bait for snails. I > honestly don't see any anymore, though I know they must be there, and remove > them in the a.m. > > Once I get these down to 0, anything more I should do? > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 > 8:24:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 > 9:41:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 10:36:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 11:57:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31298	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!

Lenny has this neat trick you can do with a ladder to start your cycle :) -Mike Fish food will take longer because it needs to rot first before it can create the ammonia needed for the cycle. -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:30 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! Fish food will take longer because it needs to rot first before it can create the ammonia needed for the cycle. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 2:26 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! Well, darn. At the time I had two females but my heater was unplugged so that may have added to it. My plug in is all messed up but I took care of that yesterday. My molly that was left was a very scared fish so I decided she needed atleast somthing in there with her. I went and picked up another female and a male molly. I figured adding the two shouldnt over load the tanks bioload. They are seeming to get alont just great but I did get a snale in the mix aswell. Anyway, I'm adding my water to the 35 today so I will get that started. I can just add fish food to start a cycle correct? My hubby doesnt want ammonia laying around. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:17:16 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! According to my Lifespan Guidehttp:// <Guidehttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan,> goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan, Molly's should live foraround 4 years so it doesn't look like it was an old age issue.Do you have a heater in the tank? Does the temp stay consistently at 76F orcould it have been bouncing around from day to night? For tropical fish,it's best to have a consistent temperature. 76F is OK but a little higherwould likely be better although the Mongabay profile on Molly's show atemperature range of 70-82 is OK so 76F would be right in the middle... butconsistency is important. If the temp was bouncing around, that is astressor to the fish and when fish get stressed, they are more likely to getsick from something they would normally handle with no problem.What was your female to male ratio? With livebearers, it's best to have acouple of females for every male to minimize harassment/fighting...20or haveall males or all females if you want to avoid too many fry. Even allfemales will likely give birth once or twice even with no males in the tank.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?!Yeah, My temp was 76 F These have been normal range stats for water. I justhad the two mollies in the tank. I got them both about two months ago from alfs they were both in the same tank there as well. They are in my 10 gallonwith a few small plants. My other molly is fine. She is a scaredy cat andhides a lot. I found her before I left this morning though. I am not norhave I ever treated this tank with anything besides a declorniator. I usedmy jungle dipsticks and a master test kit to double check the sticks. Mywater is always hard. I dont know how old the mollies are. This was thelarger one that died though so I'm thinking that may have been the problem.SarahOK. Your water parameters look OK. Is your temp OK too? Are thesenumbersconsistent with your normal water parameters?What size tank do y ouhave and what other fish? Is your tank heavilyplanted... or why are youhaving trouble finding your other molly? Anypossible predatory fish in yourtank?How long has the tank been set up? Any new fish added recently?Whatmedicines or additives (chemicals, etc.) are you adding?Just to clarifya couple of things on your test results. Is the CH achlorine test? Are yourtest results from dip sticks? If so, which brand?Is your water always sohard or are you adding anything to the tank? It'snot necessarily a badthing, I was just checking.Last but not least... how old were themollies?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Friday, October 10, 2008 7:44 AMTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] What ishappening with my fish?!Okay, So I wake up this morning to find one of mytwo mollies dead.There has been nothing wrong in this tank, not ich oranything else.Here are my water stats: NO3 10 NO2 0 GH 300 CH 0 KH 300 PH8.4 Ammonia 0I cannot find the other mollie right now I'm hoping sh e isstill alive.I could not find any visable signs as to why it died. What ishappening toall my fish? I've never had this much trouble keeping them alivebefore!_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com<http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081009-1, 10/09/2008Tested on: 10/10/2008 8:25:58 AMavast! - copyright (c)1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081010-0, 10/10/2008Tested on: 10/10/2008 9:17:16 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31299	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Chris, In addition to proteins and including other DOC's (Dissolved Organic Carbons), your surface bubble build-up could well be due to Dissolved Organic Compounds such as Phosphate. Phosphate is a by- product of decaying organic waste, as dead algae, uneaten fish food, and decaying fish waste; it can also occur through your water source. There are test kits available for this (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals is one) and zeolite resin phosphate removers, like PhosZorb, which can be added to your filter but the best way to remove it (unless its being supplied via your water supply) is to increase PWC's. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > There is a build up of bubbles where my bubble curtain breaks surface. > I'm sure it isn't detergent since the containers I use to refil the > tank haven't been touched by detergents and don't foam when I fill > them. Your thoughts please. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31300	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Letter Of Introduction

Hi Bill - welcome, and good for you coming back into the hobby. You are in an excellent group here - they sure have helped me when I did the same. And, you are also in a good position now to plan your tank using the internet and wish books - from substrate, filters, decor, plants, tank size - finally to your fish of choice. I'm sure you have much wisdom to share with us also and look forward to seeing your progress. Barbara In a message dated 10/11/2008 4:56:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, warrenprint@... writes: Here's a brief summary of where I am now: Many years ago (over 25) I kept tropical fish. I did very well to the extent that I was able to breed Discus, which was then, no easy task. But then we moved out into the country to a very small home. At the time I had 3 100- gallon tanks, 4 55's, and more 20Longs than I can remember. The water here was not good for the fish at least not at that time (straight out of the ground well-water with high mineral content), (I don't know what could be done today that could change that-----I'm hoping you folks will teach me). Everything had to be monitored and the use of a Vortex D-1 (the largest they had back then) was imperative. In short I had to, because of space here; get rid of everything because the time involved to take proper care of the fish was getting out of hand and I could not keep up with it while working full time. Now, on the sunny side of 60, I still miss my old friends and although, my space for them is the same, my time isn't, and one 30- gallon tank or something on that order is on the horizon. I think keeping Tropical Fish is one hobby that you can get out of, but never really leave! At least not for me, I've always had the desire to return. My thinking right now is that the old D-1 will have to be purchased even before the tank. Although I have very limited financial resources, I believe that my first consideration should also be some type of test kit that would be accurate enough to keep a community tank alive but not give cause to placing a second mortgage on our home. Right now we are waiting on some official word from a Testing Company on a chemical workup of our actual water conditions. But I am almost certain that some type of prep work will need to be done in order to insure the health and well-being of the fish kept. You may have noticed that I mentioned nothing about any type of start- up information or articles either with this group or the Internet itself. My reasoning there is simple, I don't believe I have enough background information to even understand what I am reading! So for now and to avoid confusion on my part; as things come up I will ask specific questions here. Things or terms like bio-wheels hold me mystified right now. But then it's like my Dad always taught me: "Son, it's not a sin to be ignorant-----it's only to stay that way"! I'm hoping you folks will help out a "new" ol'timer. bill **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31301	From: greychildren	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys

Lenny i belived i found the fish Scleromystax macropterus ones again thank you. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You need to get some good pics of your catfish and post them here or on your > own online photo album. Give us a whack at ID'ing them but if we can't, > http://www.planetcatfish.com has an "ID My Catfish" forum. There are many > different species of Corydoras so it could be the albino is one that is a > much smaller species than the other one... there are even Pygmy Corydoras. > > This Mongabay list of profiles has many of the common Cory's listed and the > "Pictures" link near the top of each profile so you may ID yours just be > browsing these pictures. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras_pygmaeus.html > > The Striped Raphael Catfish (Platydoras costatus) is also called the Talking > Catfish as it makes clicking noises. Maybe you got one of them. I'm sure > there are other "talking" catfish. > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=166 > > You really need to ID your fish as it seems you could potentially be > overstocked, especially if you don't know what you have. How many kribs do > you have and am I reading correctly that you only have two unidentified > catfish, that you thought were miscellaneous corydoras? What else do you > have in the tank? Are you planning a tank upgrade soon? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: kribs vs. corys > > sense were in the cory post i have a question, 1 have 2 cory cats one albino > and one looks like a pepper cory but the spots are bigger. the albino cory > has not grown sense i have em for about 2 months but the Oder ones gotten > huge. is it normal for cory's to make a sound like moving rocks? or did i > get some kind of other cat fish sense i purchase him from an assorted cory > tank in my lfs? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Do you have your tank set up with sectioned off areas, either using > rocks, > > lots of plants, driftwood/roots, etc., so the krib can claim a > section as > > it's territory? Without it's own area, it would be more likely to > claim the > > entire tank bottom as it's territory and since your cory's are > mostly bottom > > dwellers, this can pose a problem as you are seeing. If your 29G is > > presumably a 29G tall tank, it has the same footprint as a 20G tank > (and not > > much bigger than the footprint of a 10G) and should be stocked > accordingly. > > While the added water volume helps with maintaining water chemistry > > and diluting pollution between PWC's, it does not really add much more > "space" > > on the bottom for fish to claim. > > > > Here's a good profile for reference info. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html> > > > > Here is Fishbase's profile and read over all of the links in the > "More Info" > > section for more details. > > http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778 > > <http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of va22_vyshys > > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] kribs vs. corys > > > > 29 gallon tank my female kribensis is a nightmare to my corys. She > > won't even let them eat peacefully what can I do to ease this problem? > > She killed the two ghost shrimp that I had in the tank. She attacks > > the pencilfish but, I would like to breed these fish now I know that > they are > > aggressive when protecting their young but she is not breeding now. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 Tested on: 10/12/2008 > > 12:14:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 3:38:22 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:17:30 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: What is happening with my fish?!

Yep... and it's a faster source of nice fresh (not lemon scented) ammonia compared to rotting fish food or shrimp. Make sure one of your friends takes a video for YouTube and hopefully you have the control to stop the flow at one tablespoon. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! Lenny has this neat trick you can do with a ladder to start your cycle :) -Mike Fish food will take longer because it needs to rot first before it can create the ammonia needed for the cycle. -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:30 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! Fish food will take longer because it needs to rot first before it can create the ammonia needed for the cycle. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 2:26 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! Well, darn. At the time I had two females but my heater was unplugged so that may have added to it. My plug in is all messed up but I took care of that yesterday. My molly that was left was a very scared fish so I decided she needed atleast somthing in there with her. I went and picked up another female and a male molly. I figured adding the two shouldnt over load the tanks bioload. They are seeming to get alont just great but I did get a snale in the mix aswell. Anyway, I'm adding my water to the 35 today so I will get that started. I can just add fish food to start a cycle correct? My hubby doesnt want ammonia laying around. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:17:16 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?! According to my Lifespan Guidehttp:// <Guidehttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan, <Guidehttp://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan,> > goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan, Molly's should live foraround 4 years so it doesn't look like it was an old age issue.Do you have a heater in the tank? Does the temp stay consistently at 76F orcould it have been bouncing around from day to night? For tropical fish,it's best to have a consistent temperature. 76F is OK but a little higherwould likely be better although the Mongabay profile on Molly's show atemperature range of 70-82 is OK so 76F would be right in the middle... butconsistency is important. If the temp was bouncing around, that is astressor to the fish and when fish get stressed, they are more likely to getsick from something they would normally handle with no problem.What was your female to male ratio? With livebearers, it's best to have acouple of females for every male to minimize harassment/fighting...20or haveall males or all females if you want to avoid too many fry. Even allfemales will likely give birth once or twice even with no males in the tank.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:03 PMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] What is happening with my fish?!Yeah, My temp was 76 F These have been normal range stats for water. I justhad the two mollies in the tank. I got them both about two months ago from alfs they were both in the same tank there as well. They are in my 10 gallonwith a few small plants. My other molly is fine. She is a scaredy cat andhides a lot. I found her before I left this morning though. I am not norhave I ever treated this tank with anything besides a declorniator. I usedmy jungle dipsticks and a master test kit to double check the sticks. Mywater is always hard. I dont know how old the mollies are. This was thelarger one that died though so I'm thinking that may have been the problem.SarahOK. Your water parameters look OK. Is your temp OK too? Are thesenumbersconsistent with your normal water parameters?What size tank do y ouhave and what other fish? Is your tank heavilyplanted... or why are youhaving trouble finding your other molly? Anypossible predatory fish in yourtank?How long has the tank been set up? Any new fish added recently?Whatmedicines or additives (chemicals, etc.) are you adding?Just to clarifya couple of things on your test results. Is the CH achlorine test? Are yourtest results from dip sticks? If so, which brand?Is your water always sohard or are you adding anything to the tank? It'snot necessarily a badthing, I was just checking.Last but not least... how old were themollies?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Friday, October 10, 2008 7:44 AMTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] What ishappening with my fish?!Okay, So I wake up this morning to find one of mytwo mollies dead.There has been nothing wrong in this tank, not ich oranything else.Here are my water stats: NO3 10 NO2 0 GH 300 CH 0 KH 300 PH8.4 Ammonia 0I cannot find the other mollie right now I'm hoping sh e isstill alive.I could not find any visable signs as to why it died. What ishappening toall my fish? I've never had this much trouble keeping them alivebefore!_____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 7:11:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys

OK. Is that the albino one or the peppered one? I'm thinking the peppered one since the High Finned Peppered Cory is the common name for Scleromystax macropterus. http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=164 You'll see on that profile that it grows to around 4". Fortunately, it's the smaller albino catfish that is still unidentified so hopefully it's one of the dwarf or pygmy species of corydoras but it may not be a corydoras at all so it's still important to always know what you are buying. Are these two fish hanging around together (sleeping, etc.)? I'm not sure if you've read but corydoras should be kept in shoals of five or more and sometimes different species will shoal together, probably more out of security than out of preference but at least it gives them some security so they get stressed a little less. This is even more important in your case where there is an aggressive female krib already harassing them during feeding time. You may have to train the fish to eat at separate ends of the tank, feeding the kribs at one end and while they are busy eating, then feed your corys/catfish their favorite foods at the other end. Remember that when (not if) the kribs mate, they will become even more protective/aggressive and you will need a second tank at that point anyhow so you may want to start planning it now and give the current 29G to either the kribs or the corys/catfish and work from there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 5:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: kribs vs. corys Lenny i belived i found the fish Scleromystax macropterus ones again thank you. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You need to get some good pics of your catfish and post them here or on your > own online photo album. Give us a whack at ID'ing them but if we > can't, http://www.planetcatfish.com <http://www.planetcatfish.com> > has an "ID My Catfish" forum. There are many > different species of Corydoras so it could be the albino is one that is a > much smaller species than the other one... there are even Pygmy Corydoras. > > This Mongabay list of profiles has many of the common Cory's listed and the > "Pictures" link near the top of each profile so you may ID yours just > be browsing these pictures. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm> > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras_pygmaeus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras_pygmaeus.html> > > The Striped Raphael Catfish (Platydoras costatus) is also called the Talking > Catfish as it makes clicking noises. Maybe you got one of them. I'm sure > there are other "talking" catfish. > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=166 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=166> > > You really need to ID your fish as it seems you could potentially be > overstocked, especially if you don't know what you have. How many kribs do > you have and am I reading correctly that you only have two > unidentified catfish, that you thought were miscellaneous corydoras? > What else do you > have in the tank? Are you planning a tank upgrade soon? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: kribs vs. corys > > sense were in the cory post i have a question, 1 have 2 cory cats one albino > and one looks like a pepper cory but the spots are bigger. the albino cory > has not grown sense i have em for about 2 months but the Oder ones gotten > huge. is it normal for cory's to make a sound like moving rocks? or did i > get some kind of other cat fish sense i purchase him from an assorted cory > tank in my lfs? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Do you have your tank set up with sectioned off areas, either using > rocks, > > lots of plants, driftwood/roots, etc., so the krib can claim a > section as > > it's territory? Without it's own area, it would be more likely to > claim the > > entire tank bottom as it's territory and since your cory's are > mostly bottom > > dwellers, this can pose a problem as you are seeing. If your 29G is > > presumably a 29G tall tank, it has the same footprint as a 20G tank > (and not > > much bigger than the footprint of a 10G) and should be stocked > accordingly. > > While the added water volume helps with maintaining water chemistry > > and diluting pollution between PWC's, it does not really add much > > more > "space" > > on the bottom for fish to claim. > > > > Here's a good profile for reference info. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html> > > > > > Here is Fishbase's profile and read over all of the links in the > "More Info" > > section for more details. > > http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778 > > <http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778> > > <http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778 > > <http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of va22_vyshys > > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] kribs vs. corys > > > > 29 gallon tank my female kribensis is a nightmare to my corys. She > > won't even let them eat peacefully what can I do to ease this problem? > > She killed the two ghost shrimp that I had in the tank. She attacks > > the pencilfish but, I would like to breed these fish now I know that > they are > > aggressive when protecting their young but she is not breeding now. > > > > > > > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 7:45:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31304	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?

Still no sign of any molly babies, but she is still getting fatter and sitting on top of the filter, I know how she feels, I remember being huge and just waiting for it to happen...lol «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Maxmillionmaxcat@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Silver Molly about to give birth? Julie: Not long ago my molly had a "swarm" of babies - lol. Since I was moving, I left them alone, moved the tank with the fry swimming in the few inches of remaining water and refilled the tank. The tank was well planted, ALL of the fry survived the move and now are in their own tank growing out. So, I would not put the female in a breeding box, but rather let her have the fry in the tank since the survival rate seems so high and they will need room to grow. It truly was an amzing sight to see the amount of fry one fish can have. Barbara In a message dated 10/10/2008 6:08:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sapsgal@... writes: Well nothing has happened with my molly as yet. She was doing this strange movement for a few hours then stopped, so I never bothered placing her in the breeding box. Today there is still no fry visible, but she has changed shape to a more square body (which I read is another sign that birth is close). **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?

How long has this been going on now? It seems like quite a while since you first posted about this female molly. I see the dates below are just October 10 but they are answering earlier posts. I'm wondering if something else is going on.... egg-bound, internal bacterial infection, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 9:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Silver Molly about to give birth? Still no sign of any molly babies, but she is still getting fatter and sitting on top of the filter, I know how she feels, I remember being huge and just waiting for it to happen...lol «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Maxmillionmaxcat@... <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Silver Molly about to give birth? Julie: Not long ago my molly had a "swarm" of babies - lol. Since I was moving, I left them alone, moved the tank with the fry swimming in the few inches of remaining water and refilled the tank. The tank was well planted, ALL of the fry survived the move and now are in their own tank growing out. So, I would not put the female in a breeding box, but rather let her have the fry in the tank since the survival rate seems so high and they will need room to grow. It truly was an amzing sight to see the amount of fry one fish can have. Barbara In a message dated 10/10/2008 6:08:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sapsgal@... <mailto:sapsgal%40gmail.com> writes: Well nothing has happened with my molly as yet. She was doing this strange movement for a few hours then stopped, so I never bothered placing her in the breeding box. Today there is still no fry visible, but she has changed shape to a more square body (which I read is another sign that birth is close). _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 10:19:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31306	From: Walden Nida	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Betta fish

I think a lot would depend on the bettas you try to put together. Some are more aggressive than others. Females can be just as aggressive as males and will often kill males or other females. Once a betta pair spawns some males will kill the female if she approaches the nest while others will tend the nest together. If you really want a tank full of bettas I would suggest species bettas. There are numerous species that do quite well in a group setting. Wally [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31307	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Aquarium Heaters

There has been a few threads recently about heaters, failed heaters, recommended heaters, etc. I was shopping on DrsFosterSmith.com and saw they had a clearance sale on Rena Cal Top Light Excel Heaters... 100W and 200W only. The 100W were less than 1/2 their regular price, on sale for $10.19. These are fully submersible with indicator lights, lighted dial, thermostat calibrated from 66F to 90F and these units appear to be quality units with plenty of other features. Here's the link... <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3878&pcatid=3 878> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3878&pcatid=38 78 I'm not sure how long they will be on sale but I also wanted to mention that whenever you are shopping at any online sites, always check their Clearance pages for bargains. I know PetsMart.com and BigAlsOnline.com also have Clearance pages. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 11:07:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31308	From: greychildren	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: yay hair algae

Well i was looking into my tank last night and guess what i found i have red hair algae(looks black) growing around the area were the btf flows out and on the plants ne'er the btf. what remedy do you guys recommend? I recently change my bulb.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31309	From: greychildren	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank

lenny aren't there small koi species or look alike that don't grow much? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Koi cannot be kept in normal aquariums for very long... only as fry and > maybe for a little while as juvis. They grow to 30"+ and need around 500G > per fish as adults. They need built-in swimming pool sized ponds... > including the 6' depths. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my > coldwater tank > > koi > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "will" <easyascess@> wrote: > > > > what other fish apart from goldfish and minnows can i put in my tank > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 4:08:59 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:24:22 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31310	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Molly about to give birth?

Hi Lenny It was 9th Oct when I first posted, all over the weekend she has been swimming round as normal, its only today that she settled on the filter....but since posting earlier, she is swimming as normal again. I wouldn't say there was anything different about her behaviour, but I will keep an eye on her (have been anyway) «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Silver Molly about to give birth? How long has this been going on now? It seems like quite a while since you first posted about this female molly. I see the dates below are just October 10 but they are answering earlier posts. I'm wondering if something else is going on.... egg-bound, internal bacterial infection, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 9:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Silver Molly about to give birth? Still no sign of any molly babies, but she is still getting fatter and sitting on top of the filter, I know how she feels, I remember being huge and just waiting for it to happen...lol «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Maxmillionmaxcat@... <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Silver Molly about to give birth? Julie: Not long ago my molly had a "swarm" of babies - lol. Since I was moving, I left them alone, moved the tank with the fry swimming in the few inches of remaining water and refilled the tank. The tank was well planted, ALL of the fry survived the move and now are in their own tank growing out. So, I would not put the female in a breeding box, but rather let her have the fry in the tank since the survival rate seems so high and they will need room to grow. It truly was an amzing sight to see the amount of fry one fish can have. Barbara In a message dated 10/10/2008 6:08:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sapsgal@... <mailto:sapsgal%40gmail.com> writes: Well nothing has happened with my molly as yet. She was doing this strange movement for a few hours then stopped, so I never bothered placing her in the breeding box. Today there is still no fry visible, but she has changed shape to a more square body (which I read is another sign that birth is close). _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 10:19:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: yay hair algae

It could just be the new light bulbs since we know that fluorescent bulbs lose intensity over time and should probably be changed every six months. Did you increase the wattage? How many watts per gallon do you have? What are your water chemistry test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any others you may have. Algae starts to grow as a result of available resources... nitrogenous and/or phosphorous compounds, CO2 levels and lighting. Do you have live plants in the tank too? What is "btf"? I'm guessing something to do with your filter but I'm drawing a blank on that acronym... maybe Back Of Tank Filter? I call them HOB's (Hang On Back) and I've seen others call them HOT (Hang On Tank) but there is actually a brand or model called HOT so I try to avoid that acronym. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] yay hair algae Well i was looking into my tank last night and guess what i found i have red hair algae(looks black) growing around the area were the btf flows out and on the plants ne'er the btf. what remedy do you guys recommend? I recently change my bulb. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 11:43:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31312	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank

There are Sarasa Comet goldfish http://www.liveaquaria.com/images/categories/product/p-80332-Sarasa-Comet.jp g that has the red/white markings like some Koi have but there are no small Koi. Even the Sarasa Comet goldfish grow to 12"+ and need a BIG tank. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 10:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank lenny aren't there small koi species or look alike that don't grow much? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Koi cannot be kept in normal aquariums for very long... only as fry > and maybe for a little while as juvis. They grow to 30"+ and need around 500G > per fish as adults. They need built-in swimming pool sized ponds... > including the 6' depths. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my > coldwater tank > > koi > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "will" <easyascess@> wrote: > > > > what other fish apart from goldfish and minnows can i put in my tank > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 11:54:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31313	From: Chris	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

I haven't been medicating. No chemicals added. Just plain tap water and declor As far as protein goes, I still have juveniles in the tank so I give my fish a variety of food. I use flakes, freeze dried blood worms, and freeze dried Daphnia, and an algae tablet a few times a week. I also plan on giving live brine at least once a once week once my tank starts to get closer to completing a cycle. Since they adjusted to the tank their appetites have increased and are eating more than when I first got them in the 3-5 minute period.I realized this morning that I've been over feeding, so I'm sure that is contributing. I did add one extra thing, and that is a decomposing bacteria supplement to help break up debris and release minerals into the tank water to feed my plants with. I'm sure that is contributing aswell. I thought that protein is the likely cause. Is a protein film bad for the tank's ecology? The foaming has gone down a little since I checked this morning. I changed out 5 gallons of water (25%) Saturday. What should I increase the water change to if the foam doesn't disappear between now and next Saturday?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

You need to do a series of PWC's to lower the protein/DOC level and you may need to stick to a more frequent PWC schedule to keep it from happening again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam I haven't been medicating. No chemicals added. Just plain tap water and declor As far as protein goes, I still have juveniles in the tank so I give my fish a variety of food. I use flakes, freeze dried blood worms, and freeze dried Daphnia, and an algae tablet a few times a week. I also plan on giving live brine at least once a once week once my tank starts to get closer to completing a cycle. Since they adjusted to the tank their appetites have increased and are eating more than when I first got them in the 3-5 minute period.I realized this morning that I've been over feeding, so I'm sure that is contributing. I did add one extra thing, and that is a decomposing bacteria supplement to help break up debris and release minerals into the tank water to feed my plants with. I'm sure that is contributing aswell. I thought that protein is the likely cause. Is a protein film bad for the tank's ecology? The foaming has gone down a little since I checked this morning. I changed out 5 gallons of water (25%) Saturday. What should I increase the water change to if the foam doesn't disappear between now and next Saturday? ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 12:26:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 12:57:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31315	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank

You could get shubunkins, which are multi-colored goldfish, also called calicoes. There are two varieties, the London and the Bristol, defined by fin shape and one variety, the American, which has a slimmer body than the other two. Shubunkins will grow to 8-12" in length, so you still do need plenty of tank just to keep one. While koi have well defined patterns, the shubunkin is more of a mottled fish, with no definitive patterns to their color. Some have more, some have less color. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 11:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my coldwater tank lenny aren't there small koi species or look alike that don't grow much? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Koi cannot be kept in normal aquariums for very long... only as fry and > maybe for a little while as juvis. They grow to 30"+ and need around 500G > per fish as adults. They need built-in swimming pool sized ponds... > including the 6' depths. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: can anyone help me decide on fish to put in my > coldwater tank > > koi > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "will" <easyascess@> wrote: > > > > what other fish apart from goldfish and minnows can i put in my tank > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081011-0, 10/11/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 4:08:59 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 > Tested on: 10/12/2008 9:24:22 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31316	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

okay, so is this a bad thing? why? ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:57:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam You need to do a series of PWC's to lower the protein/DOC level and you may need to stick to a more frequent PWC schedule to keep it from happening again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam I haven't been medicating. No chemicals added. Just plain tap water and declor As far as protein goes, I still have juveniles in the tank so I give my fish a variety of food. I use flakes, freeze dried blood worms, and freeze dried Daphnia, and an algae tablet a few times a week. I also plan on giving live brine at least once a once week once my tank starts to get closer to completing a cycle. Since they adjusted to the tank their appetites have increased and are eating more than when I first got them in the 3-5 minute period.I realized this morning that I've been over feeding, so I'm sure that is contributing. I did add one extra thing, and that is a decomposing bacteria supplement to help break up debris and release minerals into the tank water to feed my plants with. I'm sure that is contributing aswell. I thought that protein is the likely cause. Is a protein film bad for the tank's ecology? The foaming has gone down a little since I checked this morning. I changed out 5 gallons of water (25%) Saturday. What should I increase the water change to if the foam doesn't disappear between now and next Saturday? ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 12:26:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 12:57:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31317	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Since your foaming was reduced by the water change, it is a pretty good sign you are dealing with DOCs (protein is included in the term, BTW). If the foaming increases during the week, do your water changes twice a week until they foaming disappears. The film on the tank will inhibit gaseous exchange to a certain extent. You can remove it by dragging a piece of newspaper across the surface of the water. The film will likely disappear when you get the DOCs down. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam I haven't been medicating. No chemicals added. Just plain tap water and declor As far as protein goes, I still have juveniles in the tank so I give my fish a variety of food. I use flakes, freeze dried blood worms, and freeze dried Daphnia, and an algae tablet a few times a week. I also plan on giving live brine at least once a once week once my tank starts to get closer to completing a cycle. Since they adjusted to the tank their appetites have increased and are eating more than when I first got them in the 3-5 minute period.I realized this morning that I've been over feeding, so I'm sure that is contributing. I did add one extra thing, and that is a decomposing bacteria supplement to help break up debris and release minerals into the tank water to feed my plants with. I'm sure that is contributing aswell. I thought that protein is the likely cause. Is a protein film bad for the tank's ecology? The foaming has gone down a little since I checked this morning. I changed out 5 gallons of water (25%) Saturday. What should I increase the water change to if the foam doesn't disappear between now and next Saturday?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31318	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Yes, it's a bad thing, which is why \\Steve// and I have recommended PWC's. DOC's (Dissolved Organic Compounds) is just a nice word for fish poop and other detritus that has broken down to the point that it's now suspended in the water... like liquidy poop... aka Diarrhea. Certainly, I'm not suggesting that yours is to the point of being brown water, although I've seen some tanks over the years where the water was a brownish yellow color due to the amount of dissolved waste, but the foaming is a first sign that you have water quality issues. It could be due to that unnamed chemical that you added that was a so-called "decomposing bacteria additive".... aka "another bottle of crap that stores sell to unsuspecting customers". There are very few shortcuts that you can buy in a bottle. There are a couple that I do recommend: A dechlor product is a shortcut where you don't have to age your tap water for days or weeks to outgas the chlorine/chloramine. Bio-Spira, now Dr. Tim's One And Only, is a shortcut to fishless cycling with ammonia. There's probably a few other shortcuts but 95% of the crap they sell at pet stores simply does not work at all or does not work as advertised and in most cases, they are simply shortcuts to separating you from your money.... not just for the bottle of crap but for more fish when the crap causes your fish to get sick and/or die an early death. Here's a simple article on DOC's, that in a quick reading, seems to be on point but I have not vetted the website as to the accuracy of any other info on the site. http://www.aquascapingworld.com/magazine/May-2008/Magazine/Dissolved-Organic -Compounds-Explained.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam okay, so is this a bad thing? why? ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:57:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam You need to do a series of PWC's to lower the protein/DOC level and you may need to stick to a more frequent PWC schedule to keep it from happening again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam I haven't been medicating. No chemicals added. Just plain tap water and declor As far as protein goes, I still have juveniles in the tank so I give my fish a variety of food. I use flakes, freeze dried blood worms, and freeze dried Daphnia, and an algae tablet a few times a week. I also plan on giving live brine at least once a once week once my tank starts to get closer to completing a cycle. Since they adjusted to the tank their appetites have increased and are eating more than when I first got them in the 3-5 minute period.I realized this morning that I've been over feeding, so I'm sure that is contributing. I did add one extra thing, and that is a decomposing bacteria supplement to help break up debris and release minerals into the tank water to feed my plants with. I'm sure that is contributing aswell. I thought that protein is the likely cause. Is a protein film bad for the tank's ecology? The foaming has gone down a little since I checked this morning. I changed out 5 gallons of water (25%) Saturday. What should I increase the water change to if the foam doesn't disappear between now and next Saturday? ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 12:26:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 12:57:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 1:47:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 2:11:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31319	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Chris, Short answer, yes. DOCs are, pure and simple, pollutants. They include various proteins, pheromones, hormones, etc. For example, a dominant fish will release a hormone that will stunt the growth of other fish in the tank. Unfortunately, even though this may work to a certain extent in the wild, it does not work so well for the dominant fish in the aquarium, since it will also be affected by the hormone. The other DOCs can have ill effects over time as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam okay, so is this a bad thing? why? ----- Original Message ---- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:57:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam You need to do a series of PWC's to lower the protein/DOC level and you may need to stick to a more frequent PWC schedule to keep it from happening again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam I haven't been medicating. No chemicals added. Just plain tap water and declor As far as protein goes, I still have juveniles in the tank so I give my fish a variety of food. I use flakes, freeze dried blood worms, and freeze dried Daphnia, and an algae tablet a few times a week. I also plan on giving live brine at least once a once week once my tank starts to get closer to completing a cycle. Since they adjusted to the tank their appetites have increased and are eating more than when I first got them in the 3-5 minute period.I realized this morning that I've been over feeding, so I'm sure that is contributing. I did add one extra thing, and that is a decomposing bacteria supplement to help break up debris and release minerals into the tank water to feed my plants with. I'm sure that is contributing aswell. I thought that protein is the likely cause. Is a protein film bad for the tank's ecology? The foaming has gone down a little since I checked this morning. I changed out 5 gallons of water (25%) Saturday. What should I increase the water change to if the foam doesn't disappear between now and next Saturday? ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 12:26:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081012-0, 10/12/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 12:57:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31320	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

So if the tank were to stop foaming, then the problem isn't a problem anymore? I'm sure the answer is no, but I thought I would throw that out there. The foam was building before the water change and did increase now it seems to be decreasing. The leaf tips of the tallest plant are sticking out of the water and had foam clinging to them. I made a feeding ring out of the top of a styrofoam cup, and it had foam stuck to it. I have a nylon stocking filled with perlite to help cycle the next tank and it had foam stuck to it. I'm germinating seeds in some floating cups and they had foam stuck to them. That foam isn't stuck on anymore. The foam is basically lessening from what I can tell. I added wast control by nutrafin. This is what the website says about it - Nutrafin Waste Control - 118 ml(4oz) - Contains beneficial bacteria that break down organic waste - Breaks down organic pollution resulting from: -- By-products of decaying matter -- Film and sludge on decorations and accessories -- Slime on glass -- Protein film on top of water -- Fish waste -- Plant leaf remnants The water was foaming alittle before I added anything, and I added the stuff the night before I did a PWC and my ammonia spiked by morning, but after the water change the ammonia hasn't increased noticably. Right now my ammonia seems to be going up and down (with in safe levels) and I'm starting to see a rise in nitrates. The filter rinses easier now. Is it the waste control? Has the bacteria finished eating up everything else, and now is working on protein film..or there was finally enough build up to feed the bacteria? I dunno. The good news is that it doesn't seem to be effecting the fish for now. They seem to be more active today and even hungrier than a few days ago. The thing on my mind is that there is supposed to be a biological mechanism to break down waste in nature. There is alot of talk about cycling water and changes, but I haven't really seen mention of other bacteria here in this forum or any other. Why not? If I've been over feeding my fish and it is building up polluting my water, wouldn't I want something to help break that up and get it out of my tank before I do a partial? I guess its my ignorance speaking. I thank you for not jumping on me because you don't like something I did. I appriciate your imput and the advice I've gotten from everyone here. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31321	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Once the foaming stops, you are well on your way to a healthy tank--how about that, not a no per se, but not an out and out yes either. Major sources of DOCs are the fish themselves, leftover food decaying in the tank, plant matter decaying in the tank, driftwood releasing substances, the water source itself. All those affect DOC to a greater or lesser extent. If the tank is over-populated, the fish are a greater source. If the tank has an optimal fish load or less fish than it can safely carry, a lesser extent, if other factors are present. With juvenile fish in the tank, and the amounts of food you should be feeding, and no daily or every other day water changes to remove uneaten food, then you have a greater level of DOC in your tank. Yes, there are other bacteria in the tank. None of them, however, are efficient as those that participate in the nitrogen cycle. If fact, there are bacteria that will consume nitrates. So then, the perceptive aquarist might ask, why don't we use them to lower nitrates? Well, for one, we do not offer them the right conditions to do their job. They require an anaerobic environment to work, and that is something we try to avoid in our tanks because too many bad things can happen in an anaerobic environment that will upset the balance we try desperately to maintain for the health and happiness of our fish and ourselves. Also, remember that the environments our fish come from are natural bodies of water. The fish live at a far smaller density of animal life to water than they do in our tanks. Water is constantly circulated in on manner or another, resulting in a constant water change. The bad stuff we get in our aquariums is not of much concern in the wild, as it is either much less percentage wise, or travels away in the water follow while it is being digested by various bacteria. While we try to duplicate this in our aquaria, we cannot make a near perfect duplication of nature, though we try. The water change you did probably has more to do with the lessening of the foam than the waste control product you used. The bacteria used to break down organic waste are probably not live by the time you get the product and use it. Even if they were present, they would hurry along the production of DOC in your water. I'll bet it has a product that will even lessen the foam. At a place where I worked when I was a youngin', we used such a product to keep certain chemical mixtures from foaming. The generic class name is not coming to mind now, oh, to have a chemist on call <g>. FWIW, the only safe level for ammonia is 0. There is no such thing as a safe range. Also, those seeds you are trying to germinate I the cups, do the cups have holes in them to provide fresh water to the seeds? If so, they can be contributing to your problem. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam So if the tank were to stop foaming, then the problem isn't a problem anymore? I'm sure the answer is no, but I thought I would throw that out there. The foam was building before the water change and did increase now it seems to be decreasing. The leaf tips of the tallest plant are sticking out of the water and had foam clinging to them. I made a feeding ring out of the top of a styrofoam cup, and it had foam stuck to it. I have a nylon stocking filled with perlite to help cycle the next tank and it had foam stuck to it. I'm germinating seeds in some floating cups and they had foam stuck to them. That foam isn't stuck on anymore. The foam is basically lessening from what I can tell. I added wast control by nutrafin. This is what the website says about it - Nutrafin Waste Control - 118 ml(4oz) - Contains beneficial bacteria that break down organic waste - Breaks down organic pollution resulting from: -- By-products of decaying matter -- Film and sludge on decorations and accessories -- Slime on glass -- Protein film on top of water -- Fish waste -- Plant leaf remnants The water was foaming alittle before I added anything, and I added the stuff the night before I did a PWC and my ammonia spiked by morning, but after the water change the ammonia hasn't increased noticably. Right now my ammonia seems to be going up and down (with in safe levels) and I'm starting to see a rise in nitrates. The filter rinses easier now. Is it the waste control? Has the bacteria finished eating up everything else, and now is working on protein film..or there was finally enough build up to feed the bacteria? I dunno. The good news is that it doesn't seem to be effecting the fish for now. They seem to be more active today and even hungrier than a few days ago. The thing on my mind is that there is supposed to be a biological mechanism to break down waste in nature. There is alot of talk about cycling water and changes, but I haven't really seen mention of other bacteria here in this forum or any other. Why not? If I've been over feeding my fish and it is building up polluting my water, wouldn't I want something to help break that up and get it out of my tank before I do a partial? I guess its my ignorance speaking. I thank you for not jumping on me because you don't like something I did. I appriciate your imput and the advice I've gotten from everyone here.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

All you did was "waste" your money! Where do you think the waste goes? Does it magically "poof" and disappear? If that crap product did do anything... and I have serious doubts about it even working... but if it did, it would have taken solid waste like a piece of fish poop or uneaten food and dissolved it so it is then in solution with the water (DOC's) which is much, much worse for the fish. At least when it was a solid piece of fish poop, the fish weren't having to breath it, eat it and drink it and then with every breath, absorbing the pollutants through their gills. Further, you would have been far more likely to vacuum a solid piece of fish poop out completely when you vacuumed your gravel so you would have removed 100% of the fish poop. Once it's dissolved into the water column, you only remove 25% of the fish poop with the PWC/gravel vacuum leaving 75% of the poop behind as part of the DOC problem you are seeing. In nature, in worst cases, fish have 100's of gallons of water volume per fish... maybe even 1,000's or 10's of thousands of gallons of water volume per fish... we don't. Nature also provides frequent PWC's (rain, melting snow, running streams, tidal action, etc.)... we have to do manual PWC's. Nature also provides a lot of other "natural" things that we are not even attempting to duplicate in our little bitty closed ecosystems called an aquarium. God doesn't go to the big fish store in the sky and buy huge bottles of chemical crap and dump it down on earth. God does provide lots of live plants, algae, water hyacinths, direct contact of the water to the ground, etc., that helps to clean up all the crap that we do dump into the waterways. I'm not sure if you read all of the emails that come through the group but if you do want to go more natural, then you should read up on Diana Walstad's "El Natural" method, which I mention on a regular basis, but this is a densely planted tank with a relative small bioload of fish... trying to be more like God's way of doing things. Cliff's Notes type version of the book - http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html More details and six pages of forum discussions about the "El Natural" method - http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/26458-what-el-natural -step-step.html (If link breaks, go to http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/forumdisplay.php?f=13 0 and it's the top sticky forum thread. Last but not least, buy the book.... link in the TheGAB article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 3:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam So if the tank were to stop foaming, then the problem isn't a problem anymore? I'm sure the answer is no, but I thought I would throw that out there. The foam was building before the water change and did increase now it seems to be decreasing. The leaf tips of the tallest plant are sticking out of the water and had foam clinging to them. I made a feeding ring out of the top of a styrofoam cup, and it had foam stuck to it. I have a nylon stocking filled with perlite to help cycle the next tank and it had foam stuck to it. I'm germinating seeds in some floating cups and they had foam stuck to them. That foam isn't stuck on anymore. The foam is basically lessening from what I can tell. I added wast control by nutrafin. This is what the website says about it - Nutrafin Waste Control - 118 ml(4oz) - Contains beneficial bacteria that break down organic waste - Breaks down organic pollution resulting from: -- By-products of decaying matter -- Film and sludge on decorations and accessories -- Slime on glass -- Protein film on top of water -- Fish waste -- Plant leaf remnants The water was foaming alittle before I added anything, and I added the stuff the night before I did a PWC and my ammonia spiked by morning, but after the water change the ammonia hasn't increased noticably. Right now my ammonia seems to be going up and down (with in safe levels) and I'm starting to see a rise in nitrates. The filter rinses easier now. Is it the waste control? Has the bacteria finished eating up everything else, and now is working on protein film..or there was finally enough build up to feed the bacteria? I dunno. The good news is that it doesn't seem to be effecting the fish for now. They seem to be more active today and even hungrier than a few days ago. The thing on my mind is that there is supposed to be a biological mechanism to break down waste in nature. There is alot of talk about cycling water and changes, but I haven't really seen mention of other bacteria here in this forum or any other. Why not? If I've been over feeding my fish and it is building up polluting my water, wouldn't I want something to help break that up and get it out of my tank before I do a partial? I guess its my ignorance speaking. I thank you for not jumping on me because you don't like something I did. I appriciate your imput and the advice I've gotten from everyone here. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081013-0, 10/13/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 6:41:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31323	From: Alina	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Snails are still my torture

Today had nitrites really high again, at 2.0; did a PWC and this afternoon, they are still at 2.0, with Ammo at 0; nitrates at 5. Just did a 25% PWC and cleaned the detritus. I have stress zyme to add bacteria..should I try that? I have cleaned that gravel til it's shiny, and tho now and again I see a tiny snail, I don't see them in great numbers... I am just having a hard time believing these tiny little things could poop so much as to turn my tank upside down in 3 days. I'm temped to remove the two live plants I have, remove my fish to another tank and start over. Will I ever ,ever be rid of these things? Could it be something else and not the snails? The only thing I've noticed is three tiny brownish spots of algae in the back of the tank, otherwise, everything is functioning normally Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31324	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2008
Subject: Re: Snails are still my torture

Yes, the nitrites will keep climbing constantly until your nitrite eating bacteria grow a large enough colony to eat them all, converting them to nitrates. Just keep doing daily, twice daily, three times daily PWC's... enough to keep the nitrites down around 1.0ppm and keep adding a pinch of salt per 10G, each time you do a PWC, to protect the fish against nitrite poisoning. The algae is one of God's ways of trying to help. It's growing to try and help eat up some of the nitrites but since you don't really want algae, it's best to keep doing the PWC's to keep the nitrites down until the bacteria colony grows large enough to handle them on their own and you might as well scrape off the algae to nip it in the bud. Of course, the brownish spots could be diatoms which are a common thing to happen to newly set up tanks. It usually brushes off easily and you can just vacuum it up with your regular PWC's. It will die off on it's own as the rest of the ecology of the tank grows. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails are still my torture Today had nitrites really high again, at 2.0; did a PWC and this afternoon, they are still at 2.0, with Ammo at 0; nitrates at 5. Just did a 25% PWC and cleaned the detritus. I have stress zyme to add bacteria..should I try that? I have cleaned that gravel til it's shiny, and tho now and again I see a tiny snail, I don't see them in great numbers... I am just having a hard time believing these tiny little things could poop so much as to turn my tank upside down in 3 days. I'm temped to remove the two live plants I have, remove my fish to another tank and start over. Will I ever ,ever be rid of these things? Could it be something else and not the snails? The only thing I've noticed is three tiny brownish spots of algae in the back of the tank, otherwise, everything is functioning normally Alina ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081013-0, 10/13/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 8:42:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081013-0, 10/13/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 8:57:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31325	From: bill1433	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Good Morning! � To re-introduce myself, I�m one of these ol� guys; back from the days of the slate bottom tanks, that has returned to the hobby.� I read, with great interest �Lenny�s� comments on this matter.� He is 100% on the money.� Moreover, there are a few less technical points on this matter that I would like to state and one which I feel has always been, and still is, a very popular misconception in the hobby even today. � Many times in books and magazines articles you see photo�s of beautiful extremely well planted aquaria.� Some with a piece or two of driftwood and, of course the fish themselves.� Now anyone can have a tank like this but is it real? Why do I say that?� Picture your own tanks at home; now transfer the illusion of these well-planted tanks to them.� See a problem?� Sure you do!� What happens if something or someone dies in there?� Will you find it?� Will it rot and decay causing all kinds of problems and making you wonder what went wrong when fish are turning up dead. � Lenny�s points are well taken.� God�s setup or as I like to call it: �The Natural Order Of Things� allows for all these things to happen but by the careful use of scavengers and other animals that eat items like this, and other dead or rotting matter, a BALANCE is created and most importantly, maintained.� We as good aquarists are not aware of his magic formula and must rely on our own senses such as sight and almost always, smell to see us through. � Whenever you go to a large aquarium like the National at Baltimore, Maryland, take a good look at their fresh water tanks.� Sure you�ll see live plants but not an overly extensive amount like those pictures, and fish but not an over extensive amount.� Now ask yourself why?� BALANCE!� Now of course, they have it because of their tremendous knowledge and skill�s to say nothing of the resource�s they have at hand.� But even they must see the problem to solve it!� So what�s the answer Bill?� Simple, BALANCE. � If I learned anything years ago, it�s too keep a tank as simple as possible and if and when any medications or remedies are necessary to a tank (not being able to make use of a separate tank or quarantine), do so sparing and with great forethought.� Try asking yourself what will happen when I put so many drops of this X magic medication into my tank?� Remember, once it�s in there, your not getting it out except by either tearing the tank down, partial water changes, or a very sophisticated filtering system, until you finally dilute the concoction that is causing the problem, which in some cases; �The cure is worse than the original aliment�.� � If possible make use of articles and writing into this group for special emergency help, BEFORE you put something in there and cause kayos.� And remember that most people giving you the advice are doing so usually by a �Here�s what worked for me� type of experience.� If you listen and heed their advice do not try and take the advice of 12 different people, you most surely will invite disaster!� Listen to one person and only follow that person�s advice as it matches your situation. It�s along the lines of �I�ve Been There, Done That� type of thing. � Finally, simply enjoy.� There is nothing more relaxing that watching a tank full of beautiful fish busy going on about their daily lives healthy and happy, thanks to you, the ever vigilant aquarist! � ol� bill --- On Mon, 10/13/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 7:41 PM All you did was "waste" your money! Where do you think the waste goes? Does it magically "poof" and disappear? If that crap product did do anything... and I have serious doubts about it even working... but if it did, it would have taken solid waste like a piece of fish poop or uneaten food and dissolved it so it is then in solution with the water (DOC's) which is much, much worse for the fish. At least when it was a solid piece of fish poop, the fish weren't having to breath it, eat it and drink it and then with every breath, absorbing the pollutants through their gills. Further, you would have been far more likely to vacuum a solid piece of fish poop out completely when you vacuumed your gravel so you would have removed 100% of the fish poop. Once it's dissolved into the water column, you only remove 25% of the fish poop with the PWC/gravel vacuum leaving 75% of the poop behind as part of the DOC problem you are seeing. In nature, in worst cases, fish have 100's of gallons of water volume per fish... maybe even 1,000's or 10's of thousands of gallons of water volume per fish... we don't. Nature also provides frequent PWC's (rain, melting snow, running streams, tidal action, etc.)... we have to do manual PWC's. Nature also provides a lot of other "natural" things that we are not even attempting to duplicate in our little bitty closed ecosystems called an aquarium. God doesn't go to the big fish store in the sky and buy huge bottles of chemical crap and dump it down on earth. God does provide lots of live plants, algae, water hyacinths, direct contact of the water to the ground, etc., that helps to clean up all the crap that we do dump into the waterways. I'm not sure if you read all of the emails that come through the group but if you do want to go more natural, then you should read up on Diana Walstad's "El Natural" method, which I mention on a regular basis, but this is a densely planted tank with a relative small bioload of fish... trying to be more like God's way of doing things. Cliff's Notes type version of the book - http://thegab. org/Articles/ WalstadTank. html More details and six pages of forum discussions about the "El Natural" method - http://www.aquaticp lantcentral. com/forumapc/ el-natural/ 26458-what- el-natural -step-step.html (If link breaks, go to http://www.aquaticp lantcentral. com/forumapc/ el-natural/ forumdisplay. php?f=13 0 and it's the top sticky forum thread. Last but not least, buy the book.... link in the TheGAB article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 3:22 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam So if the tank were to stop foaming, then the problem isn't a problem anymore? I'm sure the answer is no, but I thought I would throw that out there. The foam was building before the water change and did increase now it seems to be decreasing. The leaf tips of the tallest plant are sticking out of the water and had foam clinging to them. I made a feeding ring out of the top of a styrofoam cup, and it had foam stuck to it. I have a nylon stocking filled with perlite to help cycle the next tank and it had foam stuck to it. I'm germinating seeds in some floating cups and they had foam stuck to them. That foam isn't stuck on anymore. The foam is basically lessening from what I can tell. I added wast control by nutrafin. This is what the website says about it - Nutrafin Waste Control - 118 ml(4oz) - Contains beneficial bacteria that break down organic waste - Breaks down organic pollution resulting from: -- By-products of decaying matter -- Film and sludge on decorations and accessories -- Slime on glass -- Protein film on top of water -- Fish waste -- Plant leaf remnants The water was foaming alittle before I added anything, and I added the stuff the night before I did a PWC and my ammonia spiked by morning, but after the water change the ammonia hasn't increased noticably. Right now my ammonia seems to be going up and down (with in safe levels) and I'm starting to see a rise in nitrates. The filter rinses easier now. Is it the waste control? Has the bacteria finished eating up everything else, and now is working on protein film..or there was finally enough build up to feed the bacteria? I dunno. The good news is that it doesn't seem to be effecting the fish for now. They seem to be more active today and even hungrier than a few days ago. The thing on my mind is that there is supposed to be a biological mechanism to break down waste in nature. There is alot of talk about cycling water and changes, but I haven't really seen mention of other bacteria here in this forum or any other. Why not? If I've been over feeding my fish and it is building up polluting my water, wouldn't I want something to help break that up and get it out of my tank before I do a partial? I guess its my ignorance speaking. I thank you for not jumping on me because you don't like something I did. I appriciate your imput and the advice I've gotten from everyone here. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081013-0, 10/13/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 6:41:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31326	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Missing a Molly

So, I got home from work last night and could only find two of the three mollies. They are the only 3 fish in the 10 gallon tank. I figured she was just hiding so I went to bed. This morning I still cannot find her. I just moved around the tank hoping to get her out of hiding but nothing. So then I checked the filters, around the floor (even though the tank is covered) under plants and she is no where. I even called my hubby to see if something happened when I was at work that he didnt tell me about. But, nothing. Also, on a lighter note, my one remaining female is pregnant. I have only had a male in with her since friday but her little belly is getting large. so, how long until babies, if she really is pregnant. Sarah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31327	From: Blue fish	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Latest news about marine biology

Marine animal news Extensive site includes news of various topics like Marine animals,Marine biology, sharks,Whales,sea mammals,endangered species, birds, turtles, penguine, seal,planktons,Fish,coral reef,coastal... ----------------------------------------------- View this email online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C41445F52424D425A445146445A515F48 ----------------------------------------------- Sent to aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com by: princely7@... kinsly Inc. Anna nagar 600040 India View Online: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?474C41445F52424D425A445146445A515F48 Unsubscribe: http://www.zookoda.com/go/?434C41445F52424D425A445146445A515F4F Report Abuse: abuse@... Powered for Free by Zookoda - www.zookoda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31328	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel?

Always repeat any test that gives strange results. did you do more than siphon the gravel; did you also change teh filter media? Also, can you find all the fish? Sometimes one or two of tehm get caught on something and die after a major operation of that sort. Yours, Dora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel? After I siphoned my gravel I did a water test and saw a huge jump in my ammonia to a color similar to a very dark lime green color. Did I mess up on an ammonia test, or does that tend to happen? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31329	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel?

Failing to get rid of the chloramines could be killing teh good bacteria in the tank. Dora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 1:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel? No, siphoning your gravel will not cause an ammonia spike. Were you doing a PWC while doing this gravel vacuuming? I know you stated earlier that you still don't know if you have chloramines or not... this is something you need to find out by calling your water utility... but even with chloramine, the ammonia level should only get to 0.5ppm although I've seen rare reports of higher levels of ammonia when the chloramine is broken down... but even then only 1.0ppm to 2.0ppm... never higher. In a fully cycled tank, even those levels are not a problem with a 25% PWC as the bio-filter will immediately cycle the 0.25 to 0.5ppm of ammonia added with the 25% PWC. It's night time and I don't have my API test kit out and can't recall from memory, so what is the corresponding number to the color? I remember the dark green being kind of high but just do not recall the actual number. Did you add the zeolite to your filter system at some point prior to this test but after your last test? Had you cleaned and fully recharged the zeolite prior to adding it or could it have still had some sucked up ammonia in it and then when you added it to your tank which still had salt in the water, the salt would likely have caused the ammonia to leach out of the zeolite. This is how zeolite is recharged.. by soaking it in a salt water solution. Do a re-test to make sure you didn't mess up the dark green test and then if it also shows the high level, make sure you are using enough Prime to counteract that higher level and start doing your hourly PWC's to get it back down below 1.0ppm. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] an ammonia spike after siphoning gravel? After I siphoned my gravel I did a water test and saw a huge jump in my ammonia to a color similar to a very dark lime green color. Did I mess up on an ammonia test, or does that tend to happen? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081006-0, 10/06/2008 Tested on: 10/7/2008 3:27:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31330	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Is Ich-Attack safe for nitrifying bacteria?

Doctors Foster and Smith seels a product called Ich-Attack. Says it's 100% organic, active ingreients treat diseases caused by ich, fungus, protozoans adn dinoflagellates, and may be used as a disease inhibitor or preventive. Will not discolor water, unduly affect ph or nitrifying bacteria. With some resaerch I learned: a.. 100% Organic Herbals Based On Naphthoquinones For Fresh and Saltwater Aquarium and Pond Conditions a.. Helps Prevent And Treat Single-Celled External Fish Diseases Caused By White Spot Disease (Ich), Other Protozoans, Dinoflagellates, and Fungus a.. Equally Effective In Fresh And Salt Water a.. Does Not Require Water Changes Between Treatments a.. Safe For Use With Aquatic Invertebrates (Snails, Shrimp, Crabs, Coral, Anemones, etc.) and PRODUCT DESCRIPTION: Kordon Ich-Attack is one of three Kordon organic herbal treatments with multiple ingredients for elimination of external single-celled infections of fishes -- whether protozoan parasites (amebae, ciliates or dinoflagellates), or fungal. All three treatments are based on the unique use of patented naphthoquinones exclusively used by Kordon as the basic ingredients. The three organic treatments can be used interchangeably, with Kordon Ich Attack particularly directed against all external protozoan infections, including white spot disease (Ich); Kordon Rid-Fungus particularly directed against all types of external fungal infections; and Kordon Prevent Ich as a strong preventative that also serves as an effective external treatment of protozoans, dinoflagellates, and fungi. Ich-Attack is effective against protozoan parasites on fishes and aquatic invertebrates, whether fresh or brackish water, or marine. These comprise dozens of genera and species of fish-infecting species in fresh and salt water, each kind with distinctive characteristics in their infections. The groups include "white spot disease" and other ciliates (Ichthyophthirius in fresh water, and Cryptocaryon, Brooklynella, Trichodina in marine), and "sporozoan parasites" (for which many infectors of aquarium fish are marine). Dinoflagellate infections treated by Ich-Attack are photosynthetic single-celled organisms which include Oodinium (velvet disease), Amyloodinium (coral fish disease), Tetrahymena, as well as other infectious dinoflagellates. Ich-Attack works well against fungi which are very important pathogens of fishes and their eggs. These fungi include for fresh water the species of Saprolegnia, Achlya, Leptomitus, Pythium, and for marine Exophiala, Ichthyophonus, Ich-Attack is especially suitable for tropical marine aquariums containing aquatic invertebrates, because it also treats their fungal infections, while not adversely affecting coral reef animals, including corals, anemones, starfish, snails, crabs, and shrimp. The herbals used in Ich-Attack have been selected because they have been shown to have a powerful effect against aquatic diseases, yet are far more forgiving on the animals than harsh chemicals. What Kordon has created , led by Dr. Michael Tierra - a well known herbalist whose books on natural botanical treatments are widely read - is to determine carefully which herbals can be used together to cover a wide spectrum of external fungal and other aquatic diseases. The result is completely unique, very effective, and truly easy to use. What do you think? Yours Dora [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31331	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Missing a Molly

I also wanted to add that my water perameters are all normal. temp is 78 ph is 8.5 gh is 9 kh is 9 ammonia 0 nitrates 10 nitrites 0 "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: cheese911@...: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:34:32 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing a Molly So, I got home from work last night and could only find two of the three mollies. They are the only 3 fish in the 10 gallon tank. I figured she was just hiding so I went to bed. This morning I still cannot find her. I just moved around the tank hoping to get her out of hiding but nothing. So then I checked the filters, around the floor (even though the tank is covered) under plants and she is no where. I even called my hubby to see if something happened when I was at work that he didnt tell me about. But, nothing. Also, on a lighter note, my one remaining female is pregnant. I have only had a male in with her since friday but her little belly is getting large. so, how long until babies, if she really is pregnant.Sarah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31332	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Adding fish

So I'm making a trip to the fish store on Friday. I was going to pick up some fish for the 35 gallon tank. I do not want to move the mollies into it right now so I figured I would just get new fish for it. I have two filter cartridges from the cycled 10 gallon tank. I'm going to take one and put it in the 35 gallon. This means that tank will be able to handle a bioload of 2-3 fish or should I just do 2 since that other one is obviously no longer in the tank? Also, I just put the fish and the filter in at the same time or should I put the filter in a couple of hours before the fish?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31333	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Yeah, but I don't like it when large round heads try to fit through tiny square holes. He needs to lighten up. ----- Original Message ---- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:30:37 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam Good Morning! To re-introduce myself, I�m one of these ol� guys; back from the days of the slate bottom tanks, that has returned to the hobby. I read, with great interest �Lenny�s� comments on this matter. He is 100% on the money. Moreover, there are a few less technical points on this matter that I would like to state and one which I feel has always been, and still is, a very popular misconception in the hobby even today. Many times in books and magazines articles you see photo�s of beautiful extremely well planted aquaria. Some with a piece or two of driftwood and, of course the fish themselves. Now anyone can have a tank like this but is it real? Why do I say that? Picture your own tanks at home; now transfer the illusion of these well-planted tanks to them.. See a problem? Sure you do! What happens if something or someone dies in there? Will you find it? Will it rot and decay causing all kinds of problems and making you wonder what went wrong when fish are turning up dead. Lenny�s points are well taken. God�s setup or as I like to call it: �The Natural Order Of Things� allows for all these things to happen but by the careful use of scavengers and other animals that eat items like this, and other dead or rotting matter, a BALANCE is created and most importantly, maintained. We as good aquarists are not aware of his magic formula and must rely on our own senses such as sight and almost always, smell to see us through. Whenever you go to a large aquarium like the National at Baltimore, Maryland, take a good look at their fresh water tanks. Sure you�ll see live plants but not an overly extensive amount like those pictures, and fish but not an over extensive amount. Now ask yourself why? BALANCE! Now of course, they have it because of their tremendous knowledge and skill�s to say nothing of the resource�s they have at hand. But even they must see the problem to solve it! So what�s the answer Bill? Simple, BALANCE. If I learned anything years ago, it�s too keep a tank as simple as possible and if and when any medications or remedies are necessary to a tank (not being able to make use of a separate tank or quarantine), do so sparing and with great forethought. Try asking yourself what will happen when I put so many drops of this X magic medication into my tank? Remember, once it�s in there, your not getting it out except by either tearing the tank down, partial water changes, or a very sophisticated filtering system, until you finally dilute the concoction that is causing the problem, which in some cases; �The cure is worse than the original aliment�. If possible make use of articles and writing into this group for special emergency help, BEFORE you put something in there and cause kayos. And remember that most people giving you the advice are doing so usually by a �Here�s what worked for me� type of experience. If you listen and heed their advice do not try and take the advice of 12 different people, you most surely will invite disaster! Listen to one person and only follow that person�s advice as it matches your situation. It�s along the lines of �I�ve Been There, Done That� type of thing. Finally, simply enjoy. There is nothing more relaxing that watching a tank full of beautiful fish busy going on about their daily lives healthy and happy, thanks to you, the ever vigilant aquarist! ol� bill --- On Mon, 10/13/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 7:41 PM All you did was "waste" your money! Where do you think the waste goes? Does it magically "poof" and disappear? If that crap product did do anything... and I have serious doubts about it even working... but if it did, it would have taken solid waste like a piece of fish poop or uneaten food and dissolved it so it is then in solution with the water (DOC's) which is much, much worse for the fish. At least when it was a solid piece of fish poop, the fish weren't having to breath it, eat it and drink it and then with every breath, absorbing the pollutants through their gills. Further, you would have been far more likely to vacuum a solid piece of fish poop out completely when you vacuumed your gravel so you would have removed 100% of the fish poop. Once it's dissolved into the water column, you only remove 25% of the fish poop with the PWC/gravel vacuum leaving 75% of the poop behind as part of the DOC problem you are seeing. In nature, in worst cases, fish have 100's of gallons of water volume per fish... maybe even 1,000's or 10's of thousands of gallons of water volume per fish... we don't. Nature also provides frequent PWC's (rain, melting snow, running streams, tidal action, etc.).... we have to do manual PWC's. Nature also provides a lot of other "natural" things that we are not even attempting to duplicate in our little bitty closed ecosystems called an aquarium. God doesn't go to the big fish store in the sky and buy huge bottles of chemical crap and dump it down on earth. God does provide lots of live plants, algae, water hyacinths, direct contact of the water to the ground, etc., that helps to clean up all the crap that we do dump into the waterways. I'm not sure if you read all of the emails that come through the group but if you do want to go more natural, then you should read up on Diana Walstad's "El Natural" method, which I mention on a regular basis, but this is a densely planted tank with a relative small bioload of fish... trying to be more like God's way of doing things. Cliff's Notes type version of the book - http://thegab. org/Articles/ WalstadTank. html More details and six pages of forum discussions about the "El Natural" method - http://www.aquaticp lantcentral. com/forumapc/ el-natural/ 26458-what- el-natural -step-step..html (If link breaks, go to http://www.aquaticp lantcentral. com/forumapc/ el-natural/ forumdisplay. php?f=13 0 and it's the top sticky forum thread. Last but not least, buy the book.... link in the TheGAB article.. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 3:22 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam So if the tank were to stop foaming, then the problem isn't a problem anymore? I'm sure the answer is no, but I thought I would throw that out there. The foam was building before the water change and did increase now it seems to be decreasing. The leaf tips of the tallest plant are sticking out of the water and had foam clinging to them. I made a feeding ring out of the top of a styrofoam cup, and it had foam stuck to it. I have a nylon stocking filled with perlite to help cycle the next tank and it had foam stuck to it. I'm germinating seeds in some floating cups and they had foam stuck to them. That foam isn't stuck on anymore. The foam is basically lessening from what I can tell. I added wast control by nutrafin. This is what the website says about it - Nutrafin Waste Control - 118 ml(4oz) - Contains beneficial bacteria that break down organic waste - Breaks down organic pollution resulting from: -- By-products of decaying matter -- Film and sludge on decorations and accessories -- Slime on glass -- Protein film on top of water -- Fish waste -- Plant leaf remnants The water was foaming alittle before I added anything, and I added the stuff the night before I did a PWC and my ammonia spiked by morning, but after the water change the ammonia hasn't increased noticably. Right now my ammonia seems to be going up and down (with in safe levels) and I'm starting to see a rise in nitrates. The filter rinses easier now. Is it the waste control? Has the bacteria finished eating up everything else, and now is working on protein film..or there was finally enough build up to feed the bacteria? I dunno. The good news is that it doesn't seem to be effecting the fish for now. They seem to be more active today and even hungrier than a few days ago. The thing on my mind is that there is supposed to be a biological mechanism to break down waste in nature. There is alot of talk about cycling water and changes, but I haven't really seen mention of other bacteria here in this forum or any other. Why not? If I've been over feeding my fish and it is building up polluting my water, wouldn't I want something to help break that up and get it out of my tank before I do a partial? I guess its my ignorance speaking. I thank you for not jumping on me because you don't like something I did. I appriciate your imput and the advice I've gotten from everyone here. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081013-0, 10/13/2008 Tested on: 10/13/2008 6:41:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31334	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Chris, When you first joined the group, many of us tried as nicely as possible to help you and you continually thumbed your nose at us and went off and did your own thing. Then, when your way didn't work, you asked for our help again and many of us tried to help. You thumbed your nose at us again by running off and doing your own thing, admitting that you were "experimenting" on your fish tank to push things to the limits. I publicly wrote you off back then and should have stuck to my guns when I said I would not try to help you any longer but it's not fair to your fish to punish them for your actions so I continued to try to help. Being nice with you didn't work so I started using psychology and reverse psychology to try and make you do things correctly but that didn't work either. I'm glad you made this comment today so now I will no longer feel bad for your fish or sorry for you. Hopefully, one of the other experience members will help you because you won't get a helpful reply from me any longer except for when you post some kind of utter nonsense that needs to be challenged so others do not make the same mistakes that you intentionally continue to make. Good luck... your fish will need lots of it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam Yeah, but I don't like it when large round heads try to fit through tiny square holes. He needs to lighten up. ----- Original Message ---- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:30:37 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam Good Morning! To re-introduce myself, I'm one of these ol' guys; back from the days of the slate bottom tanks, that has returned to the hobby. I read, with great interest "Lenny's" comments on this matter. He is 100% on the money. Moreover, there are a few less technical points on this matter that I would like to state and one which I feel has always been, and still is, a very popular misconception in the hobby even today. Many times in books and magazines articles you see photo's of beautiful extremely well planted aquaria. Some with a piece or two of driftwood and, of course the fish themselves. Now anyone can have a tank like this but is it real? Why do I say that? Picture your own tanks at home; now transfer the illusion of these well-planted tanks to them.. See a problem? Sure you do! What happens if something or someone dies in there? Will you find it? Will it rot and decay causing all kinds of problems and making you wonder what went wrong when fish are turning up dead. Lenny's points are well taken. God's setup or as I like to call it: "The Natural Order Of Things" allows for all these things to happen but by the careful use of scavengers and other animals that eat items like this, and other dead or rotting matter, a BALANCE is created and most importantly, maintained. We as good aquarists are not aware of his magic formula and must rely on our own senses such as sight and almost always, smell to see us through. Whenever you go to a large aquarium like the National at Baltimore, Maryland, take a good look at their fresh water tanks. Sure you'll see live plants but not an overly extensive amount like those pictures, and fish but not an over extensive amount. Now ask yourself why? BALANCE! Now of course, they have it because of their tremendous knowledge and skill's to say nothing of the resource's they have at hand. But even they must see the problem to solve it! So what's the answer Bill? Simple, BALANCE. If I learned anything years ago, it's too keep a tank as simple as possible and if and when any medications or remedies are necessary to a tank (not being able to make use of a separate tank or quarantine), do so sparing and with great forethought. Try asking yourself what will happen when I put so many drops of this X magic medication into my tank? Remember, once it's in there, your not getting it out except by either tearing the tank down, partial water changes, or a very sophisticated filtering system, until you finally dilute the concoction that is causing the problem, which in some cases; "The cure is worse than the original aliment". If possible make use of articles and writing into this group for special emergency help, BEFORE you put something in there and cause kayos. And remember that most people giving you the advice are doing so usually by a "Here's what worked for me" type of experience. If you listen and heed their advice do not try and take the advice of 12 different people, you most surely will invite disaster! Listen to one person and only follow that person's advice as it matches your situation. It's along the lines of "I've Been There, Done That" type of thing. Finally, simply enjoy. There is nothing more relaxing that watching a tank full of beautiful fish busy going on about their daily lives healthy and happy, thanks to you, the ever vigilant aquarist! ol' bill --- On Mon, 10/13/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 7:41 PM All you did was "waste" your money! Where do you think the waste goes? Does it magically "poof" and disappear? If that crap product did do anything... and I have serious doubts about it even working... but if it did, it would have taken solid waste like a piece of fish poop or uneaten food and dissolved it so it is then in solution with the water (DOC's) which is much, much worse for the fish. At least when it was a solid piece of fish poop, the fish weren't having to breath it, eat it and drink it and then with every breath, absorbing the pollutants through their gills. Further, you would have been far more likely to vacuum a solid piece of fish poop out completely when you vacuumed your gravel so you would have removed 100% of the fish poop. Once it's dissolved into the water column, you only remove 25% of the fish poop with the PWC/gravel vacuum leaving 75% of the poop behind as part of the DOC problem you are seeing. In nature, in worst cases, fish have 100's of gallons of water volume per fish... maybe even 1,000's or 10's of thousands of gallons of water volume per fish... we don't. Nature also provides frequent PWC's (rain, melting snow, running streams, tidal action, etc.).... we have to do manual PWC's. Nature also provides a lot of other "natural" things that we are not even attempting to duplicate in our little bitty closed ecosystems called an aquarium. God doesn't go to the big fish store in the sky and buy huge bottles of chemical crap and dump it down on earth. God does provide lots of live plants, algae, water hyacinths, direct contact of the water to the ground, etc., that helps to clean up all the crap that we do dump into the waterways. I'm not sure if you read all of the emails that come through the group but if you do want to go more natural, then you should read up on Diana Walstad's "El Natural" method, which I mention on a regular basis, but this is a densely planted tank with a relative small bioload of fish... trying to be more like God's way of doing things. Cliff's Notes type version of the book - http://thegab. org/Articles/ WalstadTank. html More details and six pages of forum discussions about the "El Natural" method - http://www.aquaticp lantcentral. com/forumapc/ el-natural/ 26458-what- el-natural -step-step..html (If link breaks, go to http://www.aquaticp lantcentral. com/forumapc/ el-natural/ forumdisplay. php?f=13 0 and it's the top sticky forum thread. Last but not least, buy the book.... link in the TheGAB article.. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 3:22 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam So if the tank were to stop foaming, then the problem isn't a problem anymore? I'm sure the answer is no, but I thought I would throw that out there. The foam was building before the water change and did increase now it seems to be decreasing. The leaf tips of the tallest plant are sticking out of the water and had foam clinging to them. I made a feeding ring out of the top of a styrofoam cup, and it had foam stuck to it. I have a nylon stocking filled with perlite to help cycle the next tank and it had foam stuck to it. I'm germinating seeds in some floating cups and they had foam stuck to them. That foam isn't stuck on anymore. The foam is basically lessening from what I can tell. I added wast control by nutrafin. This is what the website says about it - Nutrafin Waste Control - 118 ml(4oz) - Contains beneficial bacteria that break down organic waste - Breaks down organic pollution resulting from: -- By-products of decaying matter -- Film and sludge on decorations and accessories -- Slime on glass -- Protein film on top of water -- Fish waste -- Plant leaf remnants The water was foaming alittle before I added anything, and I added the stuff the night before I did a PWC and my ammonia spiked by morning, but after the water change the ammonia hasn't increased noticably. Right now my ammonia seems to be going up and down (with in safe levels) and I'm starting to see a rise in nitrates. The filter rinses easier now. Is it the waste control? Has the bacteria finished eating up everything else, and now is working on protein film..or there was finally enough build up to feed the bacteria? I dunno. The good news is that it doesn't seem to be effecting the fish for now. They seem to be more active today and even hungrier than a few days ago. The thing on my mind is that there is supposed to be a biological mechanism to break down waste in nature. There is alot of talk about cycling water and changes, but I haven't really seen mention of other bacteria here in this forum or any other. Why not? If I've been over feeding my fish and it is building up polluting my water, wouldn't I want something to help break that up and get it out of my tank before I do a partial? I guess its my ignorance speaking. I thank you for not jumping on me because you don't like something I did. I appriciate your imput and the advice I've gotten from everyone here. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/14/2008 8:13:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31335	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Adding fish

Sarah, I just figured out why I get confused out here sometimes. Nothing about your email per se but that your previous email, which I just replied to, about the missing molly shows "From Sarah Huss" and this one shows "From Cheeseymicron03". Only when I went back and looked at the actual email addresses, did I realize you are one and the same. I'm not sure if this is a Yahoo thing or your email client (Outlook, Outlook Express, etc.) or maybe you are having to use an email client sometimes and the website other times. Now to answer... No, you do not want to run the filter on an empty tank since there will be no source of ammonia in an empty tank so you would put the filter and fish in at the same time. Yes, the filter will only be cycled for a very small bioload of a couple to a few fish depending on their size in comparison to your current fish size. For example, if you had a tank with a single adult sized goldfish, that filter would be cycled to handle much more than a single smaller goldfish since an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. In your case, with the 2-3 mollies, how long are they? You could safely add at least the same number of inches of fish, for example if your mollies are 2" each, you could add 4" of juvi fish... possibly more if you are ready to deal with the mini-cycle you might see. Remember, you will potentially have to deal with a mini-cycle each time you increase the bioload on the tank and you'll have to deal with quarantining new fish, etc. Since you have a few days, if you could get a 16 oz. or quart sized bottle of plain ammonia (99 cents), you could move the filter now and start dosing it with plain ammonia and the nitrifying bacteria colonies will have grown quite a bit more in even a few days. This is what I would have been doing since you first got the bigger tank so that you could have added the bulk of your new fish all at once and not have to deal with the quarantining of new fish each time you wanted to add more fish to the tank. You might even want to delay getting your new fish for a week so you could have the 35G fully fishless cycled to 4-5ppm of ammonia each day and then you could add all the new fish at once. One other thing to add... To minimize or completely prevent the mini-cycle that usually happens when adding new fish to a tank, do a series of PWC's, vacuum graveling and filter maintenance to remove much of the excess detritus from the tank the day you are planning on bringing home your new fish. This will remove the added bioload of all of the detritus and then replace that bioload with the new fish so you may not have a mini-cycle at all. While the fish do create a lot of ammonia via gill function, osmoregulatory action, urine, etc., a tank with a lot of detritus (fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) in the gravel and filter system will also get a lot of ammonia from that decaying detritus. So the filter system would have a larger nitrifying bacteria colony to handle all of the fish and their decaying detritus so when you remove the decaying detritus, you could add more fish without seeing a rise in ammonia/nitrites. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Adding fish So I'm making a trip to the fish store on Friday. I was going to pick up some fish for the 35 gallon tank. I do not want to move the mollies into it right now so I figured I would just get new fish for it. I have two filter cartridges from the cycled 10 gallon tank. I'm going to take one and put it in the 35 gallon. This means that tank will be able to handle a bioload of 2-3 fish or should I just do 2 since that other one is obviously no longer in the tank? Also, I just put the fish and the filter in at the same time or should I put the filter in a couple of hours before the fish? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/14/2008 8:06:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31336	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Missing a Molly

If you don't find it on the floor, you may need to search much more thoroughly. I'm not sure the other two mollies could have eaten it completely overnight so I would suspect it's either alive and hiding or dead and hidden. If it's dead and hidden, it will slowly start to decay and will eventually cause many water quality issues. Check in and under any decorations, thick plants, in the filter tubes, etc. You may have to break down your filter and just leave the filter cartridge in the other filter reservoir or floating in the tank while you completely take apart the filter system and flush out the intake tubes, etc. Do your intakes have the filter intake screen attachment on them? All of my filter systems have filter intake screens but I regularly see forum posts where someone doesn't have a screen on their intake. Do you have any pets that might have slurped it up if it did jump out? Last but not least, I know your signature mentions the perils or raising kids... could one of them have? ;-) Double/triple check with the rest of the family to make sure one of them didn't scoop out the dead fish so you wouldn't have to see it. Maybe they were planning on scooping it out and replacing it but couldn't replace it quickly enough to fool you. Isn't this what many parents have done over the years when a kid's pet critter dies? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:15 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing a Molly I also wanted to add that my water perameters are all normal. temp is 78 ph is 8.5 gh is 9 kh is 9 ammonia 0 nitrates 10 nitrites 0 "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : cheese911@... <mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> : Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:34:32 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing a Molly So, I got home from work last night and could only find two of the three mollies. They are the only 3 fish in the 10 gallon tank. I figured she was just hiding so I went to bed. This morning I still cannot find her. I just moved around the tank hoping to get her out of hiding but nothing. So then I checked the filters, around the floor (even though the tank is covered) under plants and she is no where. I even called my hubby to see if something happened when I was at work that he didnt tell me about. But, nothing. Also, on a lighter note, my one remaining female is pregnant. I have only had a male in with her since friday but her little belly is getting large. so, how long until babies, if she really is pregnant.Sarah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/14/2008 7:41:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31337	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

Naw. You just come across as arrogant. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Strange Foam

You'll have to do better than that. If that's the worst I get called on any given day, I consider that a great day. LOL I remember my formerly teenaged daughter using much cheesier words when she didn't listen to good advice either. "Arrogant" was usually just one of the words in a string of words when she would go off on one of her tirades. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Strange Foam Naw. You just come across as arrogant. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/14/2008 9:25:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31340	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/14/2008
Subject: Re: Missing a Molly

Thank you lenny for so much help. :-) I asked my hubby and he is suggesting maybe one of our two sons did it (3 and 1) which very well could have been but they hadnt been caught playing in the tank that day. My filters do have screens on the bottoms. I have one internal and one HOB. The internal is a little low in the water so I thought maybe she could have swam in there but I didnt see her. I'm going to check again tonight and then in the morning. If I havent found her then I will do a very detailed search. Our tank is in the corner behind a sectional couch so it is very difficult to get around to check the floors. My pup doesnt even mess with the tank so I know she didnt do it. Besides, she never does anything wrong! LOL My current mollies are about 5 inches total so I will get that in fish. I dont want to get too many at once because I'm still lacking confidence in this fish stuff. So far I've had 7 fish in the past 6 months and 5 have died. I will keep your mini cycle prevention idea handy though for when I do get more. Its awful because my LFS is so far away. I rarely get a chance to visit so when I do I want to buy the whole store! On the e-mail note, I make my original posts through the yahoo groups but I reply through my e-mail. I think that is what is making the name change because I have my hotmail set up though the yahoo groups. I've also been trying to resize the original posts. For some reason hotmail shrink them down and then when clicked on it brings up a sizeable box kinda like a photo. I dont know whats up with it, but when I remember, I resize it. Can you read this original post better than normally? Can you shoot me a message when you send out the plants. This way I will know when to be watching for them. Thanks! Good Golly, I've off to check for mrs. molly! lol Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:41:03 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing a Molly If you don't find it on the floor, you may need to search much morethoroughly. I'm not sure the other two mollies could have eaten itcompletely overnight so I would suspect it's either alive and hiding or deadand hidden. If it's dead and hidden, it will slowly start to decay and willeventually cause many water quality issues. Check in and under any decorations, thick plants, in the filter tubes, etc.You may have to break down your filter and just leave the filter cartridgein the other filter reservoir or floating in the tank while you completelytake apart the filter system and flush out the intake tubes, etc. Do yourintakes have the filter intake screen attachment on them? All of my filtersystems have filter intake screens but I regularly see forum posts wheresomeone doesn't have a screen on their intake. Do you have any pets that might have slurped it up if it did jump out? Lastbut not least, I know your signature mentions the perils or raising kids...could one of them have? ;-)Double/triple check with the rest of the family to make sure one of themdidn't scoop out the dead fish so you wouldn't have to see it. Maybe theywere planning on scooping it out and replacing it but couldn't replace itquickly enough to fool you. Isn't this what many parents have done over theyears when a kid's pet critter dies?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:15 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing a MollyI also wanted to add that my water perameters are all normal. temp is 78 phis 8.5 gh is 9 kh is 9 ammonia 0 nitrates 10 nitrites 0 "With kids there'sno guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me ascript of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way.However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : cheese911@...<mailto:cheese911%40hotmail.comDate> : Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:34:32+0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing a MollySo, I got home from work last night and could only find two of the threemollies. They are the only 3 fish in the 10 gallon tank. I figured she wasjust hiding so I went to bed. This morning I still cannot find her. I justmoved around the tank hoping to get her out of hiding but nothing. So then Ichecked the filters, around the floor (even though the tank is covered)under plants and she is no where. I even called my hubby to see if somethinghappened when I was at work that he didnt tell me about. But, nothing. Also,on a lighter note, my one remaining female is pregnant. I have only had amale in with her since friday but her little belly is getting large. so, howlong until babies, if she really is pregnant.Sarah[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008Tested on: 10/14/2008 7:41:02 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31342	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Betta Experiment!

Well I did it. I put my Betta in my 45 gallon tank with Mollys, Dwarf Catfish and Platys. I think he was scared! First he jumped at every fish that got near him. I fed him some peas (he loves them)and he calmed down. Now he does nothing but swim around in a much bigger tank! The Dalmation Molly has a crush on him or something. She follows him as he paces and on the turns they end up nose to nose, she moves over and follows him again. It's funny to watch. Glad he behaves himself, I hated having him in that little 2 gallon tank. Thanks for all your input and help. Jennie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31343	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Experiment!

In case one of us haven't said.. I think I did but it could have been another forum or thread... you want to possibly adjust your filter output so there is an area of one end of the tank surface area that he can claim for his own to build his occasional bubble nests. Even without a female, males are still genetically wired to build their bubble nests and it's likely a stressor if there is too much surface agitation where the nest will not form. Having some floating plants (I've use Anacharis and Hornwort) in that area will also give the bubble nest something to hold onto and lessen the surface agitation in that area. Who knows, he might even try to court that Dalmatian Molly. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta Experiment! Well I did it. I put my Betta in my 45 gallon tank with Mollys, Dwarf Catfish and Platys. I think he was scared! First he jumped at every fish that got near him. I fed him some peas (he loves them)and he calmed down. Now he does nothing but swim around in a much bigger tank! The Dalmation Molly has a crush on him or something. She follows him as he paces and on the turns they end up nose to nose, she moves over and follows him again. It's funny to watch. Glad he behaves himself, I hated having him in that little 2 gallon tank. Thanks for all your input and help. Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:48:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31344	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Experiment!

My male Betta is a community tank as well and he does just fine. In fact he was never so entertaining to watch before his tank upgrade. His roomies are 1 Dwarf Gourami, 4 Guppies, 1 african Dwarf frog, 7 Glass shrimp + 4 Snails. Everybody gets along. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "jjmiltner" <jjmiltner@...> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:33:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta Experiment! Well I did it. I put my Betta in my 45 gallon tank with Mollys, Dwarf Catfish and Platys. I think he was scared! First he jumped at every fish that got near him. I fed him some peas (he loves them)and he calmed down. Now he does nothing but swim around in a much bigger tank! The Dalmation Molly has a crush on him or something. She follows him as he paces and on the turns they end up nose to nose, she moves over and follows him again. It's funny to watch. Glad he behaves himself, I hated having him in that little 2 gallon tank. Thanks for all your input and help. Jennie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31345	From: caroline	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: do not want a big crash

I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak tables.. as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the table can handle the tanks weight..........scary... thank you.. caroline

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31346	From: bill1433	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Here's What I'm doing now.

Good Morning, � I thought I should come clean about what fish I�m keeping currently and where I�d like to go from here. � I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a �kit-type� aquarium because it came with everything needed----------sort of.� There was no heater.� The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel!� I do not know from what manufacture but I�m thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that�s all we have in our area.� It was a gift our son received.� He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them.� It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish.� Onward! � While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature. �It never got below 78 degrees.� I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation.� Apparently the article was correct.� I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely.� I currently have 3 Black Tetra�s� and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well. � I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall.� This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it�s location� in our home, but I can�t get confirmation as yet about this size.� Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it?� The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can�t get any more information.� Could it be a custom-made tank?� From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct.� I don�t know if you can post pictures here on list-------------can you? � bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31347	From: Gambusia Affinis	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: GOLDFISH RESCUE

I don't know where you are or what breed of goldfish you have, but a friend of mine likes to collect goldfish for her huge pond. Sarah's (my friend's)  phone number is 831-338-3835   gambusia --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@...> wrote: From: Suzy Snowflake <grammypat@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GOLDFISH RESCUE To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 4:00 AM I got the 40 back up and running. I had to change the filter but I put some of my extra sponges from my other tanks in to keep the bacteria going. I just put the wheel back in. The goldies are happy to be back in there tank but I do NOT want to keep them. I want plants and nice little calm fish. Sorry but I am not a goldfish lover. I think I will be rehoming the plecos also. They are not BNs. I think one is a sailfin that gets kind of big. The other is a light brown. Sorry I don't want these either. I think I will have to get a new hood though. This one is broken and I am afraid the light is going to fall in the tank. Ok, enough stress for today. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31348	From: Chris	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Would this be a mistake?

I currently have my air pump sitting on top of the hood to recapture warm air so at night the water temp doesn't drop. I also place a towel over the top of the aquarium to insulate the top of the aquarium. This method works great at keeping the water temperature stable and am pleased with this method. I'm thinking though of putting the hood on a timer, and at the same time, putting the air pump on a timer as well. What is on my mind is would that time that the air pump is off would co2 build up, and how would it effect my fish and water chemistry? Aside from the fish, I have a few plants in the aquarium, but the HOB filter will still be running and agitating the water surface. Your opinion please.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31349	From: bill1433	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

Years ago, we use to say for safety and other factors that it was best to use as rule of thumb to consider a tanks gallon capacity as 10 pounds per gallon.� So for a 26-gallon tank, water, gravel, what have you, it would be in the neighborhood of 250 pounds.� I would consider this accurate enough but remember, if the table has 4 legs, then this weight would be divided by 4.� If all else fails, get a someone or something of about this weight and have them sit on the table and observe.� If they are gentle enough and careful, you should find out what you need to know.� This does sounds drastic but consider this; better a broken table leg than all that water on your rugs and floors to say nothing of a smashed tank to boot. � Hope I�ve helped? � Bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, caroline <waves02@...> wrote: From: caroline <waves02@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] do not want a big crash To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 10:23 AM I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak tables.. as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the table can handle the tanks weight...... ....scary. .. thank you.. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31350	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

Well the weight of a gallon of water is approx. 8 pounds and then you have to factor in the weight of the gravel and what other ornaments that you may want to add. So to answer your question I wouldn't trust an coffee table or lamp table to hold a 26 gallon. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, caroline <waves02@...> wrote: > > I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak > tables.. as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the > table can handle the tanks weight..........scary... thank you.. caroline >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31351	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

Since water weighs around 8 pounds per gallon, your tank would weigh over 200 pounds (U. S.). While household furniture is supposed to be engineered to support around 350 pounds, I know that's not always the case. Some furniture is quality made while other pieces are really junk. If it's a table with single-screw on legs that is kind of wobbly if you just push on it, that would not be a good choice. If the legs are solid and are properly mounted to the bottom of the table and braced, it would have a better chance. If you could take pictures of the proposed pieces of furniture, post them to the group's photo section or your own online photo album and give us the links, I'd be willing to offer a better opinion. Or your other option is to get one of your healthy husky male friends (or female friends) to stand on the table and dance around a little bit and if the table wiggles or wobbles, then it's not suitable. Make sure you video tape this experiment for posting on YouTube... even better if the table collapses! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] do not want a big crash I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak tables.. as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the table can handle the tanks weight..........scary... thank you.. caroline _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 12:32:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Those tank dimensions aren't on any standard tank size lists but the numbers do add up to a 30G tank. The simple formula is L x W x H divided by 231 so yours adds up to 30 x 18 x 13 divided by 231 = 30.38G. http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/tipsandtables/l/bltanksize.htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 x 18 x 12 but those numbers add up to 33.66G which seems like it would be sold as a 35G in the industry but who knows. http://www.alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 3/16 x 18 1/4 x 12 15/16 which are basically the same as above. Have them re-check their measurements to find out if it's 36" long, instead of 30" or if it's only 12" wide (front to back), instead of 18", just to clarify whether it's a 30G breeder or 20G Long, also sometimes called a 20G breeder. You would probably be able to tell the difference between 18" and 12" on the width (front to back) measurements in the pictures but the 36" or 30" would be tougher to tell without a comparative item in the picture. And yes, I read that acrylic tanks have higher insulation qualities to them as well. My 65G goldfish tank is acrylic but I bought it more for the lighter weight, around 25 pounds, versus over 100 pounds for a 65G glass tank, since I was setting it up on a 2nd floor and that extra 75 pounds might have made a difference. LOL I do know about load bearing walls, etc., so I did put it in a safe place and never had any problems. I also like the look of acrylic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning, I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here. I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed----------sort of. There was no heater. The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel! I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area. It was a gift our son received. He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them. It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish. Onward! While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature. It never got below 78 degrees. I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation. Apparently the article was correct. I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely. I currently have 3 Black Tetra's and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well. I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall. This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size. Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it? The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information. Could it be a custom-made tank? From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct. I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------------can you? bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 12:53:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31353	From: caroline	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

thank you so much... yes, this has helped tremendously, onward with the weighing.. caroline At 08:20 AM 10/15/2008, you wrote: >Years ago, we use to say for safety and other >factors that it was best to use as rule of thumb >to consider a tanks gallon capacity as 10 pounds >per gallon. So for a 26-gallon tank, water, >gravel, what have you, it would be in the >neighborhood of 250 pounds. I would consider >this accurate enough but remember, if the table >has 4 legs, then this weight would be divided by >4. If all else fails, get a someone or >something of about this weight and have them sit >on the table and observe. If they are gentle >enough and careful, you should find out what you >need to know. This does sounds drastic but >consider this; better a broken table leg than >all that water on your rugs and floors to say >nothing of a smashed tank to boot. > > >Hope I’ve helped? > >Bill > >--- On Wed, 10/15/08, caroline <waves02@...> wrote: > >From: caroline <waves02@...> >Subject: [AquaticLife] do not want a big crash >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 10:23 AM > > > > > > >I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak >tables.. as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the >table can handle the tanks weight...... ....scary. .. thank you.. caroline > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------ > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all >TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if >CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message >MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31354	From: caroline	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

this table would be an old oak table.......very well made....tongue and groove.. I would love to use this table..because I absolutely adore the table... and adore fish.. one..two..three..testing........thank you so much.. caroline At 10:32 AM 10/15/2008, you wrote: >Since water weighs around 8 pounds per gallon, your tank would weigh over >200 pounds (U. S.). While household furniture is supposed to be engineered >to support around 350 pounds, I know that's not always the case. Some >furniture is quality made while other pieces are really junk. If it's a >table with single-screw on legs that is kind of wobbly if you just push on >it, that would not be a good choice. If the legs are solid and are properly >mounted to the bottom of the table and braced, it would have a better >chance. > >If you could take pictures of the proposed pieces of furniture, post them to >the group's photo section or your own online photo album and give us the >links, I'd be willing to offer a better opinion. > >Or your other option is to get one of your healthy husky male friends (or >female friends) to stand on the table and dance around a little bit and if >the table wiggles or wobbles, then it's not suitable. Make sure you video >tape this experiment for posting on YouTube... even better if the table >collapses! ;-) > >Lenny Vasbinder >Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives >- Year, Month and under Labels) > >-----Original Message----- >From: ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of caroline >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 AM >To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AquaticLife] do not want a big crash > >I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak tables.. as in >coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the table can handle the >tanks weight..........scary... thank you.. caroline > >_____ > >avast! Antivirus ><<http://www.avast.com>http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > >Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 >Tested on: 10/15/2008 12:32:43 PM >avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31355	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: kribs vs. corys

> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Do you have your tank set up with sectioned off areas, either > using rocks,lots of plants, driftwood/roots, etc., so the krib can > claim a section as it's territory? Without it's own area, it would > be more likely to claim the entire tank bottom as it's territory and > since your cory's are mostly bottom dwellers, this can pose a problem > as you are seeing. >> 29 gallon tank my female kribensis is a nightmare to my corys. She won't >> even let them eat peacefully what can I do to ease this problem? >> She killed the two ghost shrimp that I had in the tank. She attacks the >> pencilfish but, I would like to breed these fish now I know that they are >> aggressive when protecting their young but she is not breeding now. Personally I just added a pair (male/female) kribs to my community tank (75gal), 3 pieces of driftwood, medium-heavy planted and a few rocks. Sand substrate horizontally across the front length. For me, the kribs are loving it and not bothering (don't shoot me Lenny) the (only) 2 corydoras I have in there (will be 3 soon should have been 4 but that one died within a week in quarantine.) The only "aggression" I had seen in my kribs were when they were in the 5gal quarantine. Only had one small artificial plant and tiny amount of substrate. The male would sometimes harass the female in there but they have been great in the 75 (speaks to the more room and hiding place part I would believe.) The blue ram makes sure to let them know the left section of the tank is his, when he deems appropriate :) Hopefully they'll work out for you, they're pretty kewl looking fish. Maybe some sand over a section of your substrate will keep them busy too. I'm not sure if the kribs are considered to be geophagus fish, but they are like my Rams (German, Bolivian) and like to sift the sand for food (and the cories and the loaches ...) Jim E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31356	From: pam andress	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Below is a chart that shows many tank sizes. A 30 long, I believe is 36 inches long. I have no idea what a 30 high or 30 breeder are. Pam here is a chart from all glass on tanks give an good estimate on what size you have Name Description Price Options � - 5 8 x 16 x 6 Tall � - 3 6 x 12 x 6 Tall � - 10 10 x 20 x 6 Tall 5� Gal. 16 x 8 x 11 Tall � - 15 12� x 24 x 6 Tall � - 29 12� x 30 x 6 Tall 8 Tall 16 x 8 x 13 Tall 10 Tall 16 x 8 x 17 Tall 15 Long 24 x 12� x 13 Tall 20 Tall 24 x 12� x 17 Tall 20 Long 30 x 12� x 13 Tall 15 Tall 20 x 10 x 17 Tall 29 Gal. 30 x 12� x 17 Tall 27 Gal. 36 x 12� x 13 Tall 38 Gal. 36 x 12� x 17 Tall 33 Gal. 48 x 12� x 13 Tall 45 Long 48 x 12� x 17 Tall 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13 Tall 20 square 24 x 24 x 13 tall 50 Tall 36 x 18 x 17 Tall 50 Long 48 x 18 x 13 Tall 55 Gal. 48 x 12� x 21 Tall 65 Gal. 48 x 18 x 17 Tall 40 Square 24 x 24 x 17 tall 75 Tall 48 x 18 x 21 Tall 45 Tall 36 x 12� x 25 Tall 70 Tall 36 x 18 x 25 Tall 67 Gal. 48 x 12� x 25 Tall 90 Long 48 x 18 x 25 Tall 60 Square 24 x 24 x 25 Tall 70 Wide 48 x 24 x 13 Tall 50 Square 30 x 31 x 13 Tall 75 Long 72 x 18 x 13 Tall 65 Wide 36 x 24 x 17 Tall 100 Long 72 x 18 x 17 Tall 90 Tall 36 x 18 x 31 Tall 95 - 4 Wide 48 x 24 x 17 Tall 80 Cube 24 x 24 x 31 Tall 135 Gal. 72 x 18 x 24 Tall 125 Tall 60 x 18 x 25 Tall 120 Gal. 48 x 24 x 25 Tall 100 Wide 72 x 24 x 13 Tall 115 Gal. 48 x 18 x 31 Tall 70 Square 30 x 30 x 17 Tall 95 -3 Wide 36 x 24 x 25 Tall 125 Wide 72 x 24 x 17 Tall 118 Gal. 36 x 24 x 31 Tall 100 Square 30 x 30 x 25 Tall 150 Long 60 x 24 x 25 Tall 150 Tall 48 x 24 x 31 Tall 120 Cube 30 x 30 x 31 Tall 180 Wide 72 x 24 x 25 Tall 150 - 4 Wide 48 x 30 x 25 Tall 140 Square 36 x 36 x 25 Tall 170 Gal. 48 x 24 x 35 Tall 180 Tall 72 x 18 x 31 Tall 130 Square 48 x 48 x 13 Tall 240 Long 96 x 24 x 25 Tall 180 - 8 96 x 18 x 25 Tall 175 Square 48 x 48 x 17 Tall 175 Square 36 x 36 x 31 Tall 240 - 6 Tall 72 x 24 x 31 Tall 190 - 4 Wide 48 x 36 x 25 Tall 190 Tall 60 x 24 x 31 Tall 195 - 5 Wide 60 x 30 x 25 Tall 240 - 5 Wide 60 x 36 x 25 Tall 240 Wide 72 x 30 x 25 Tall 240 - 4 Square 48 x 48 x 25 Tall 240 - 8 Tall 96 x 18 x 31 Tall 300 Tall 96 x 24 x 31 Tall 280 - 6 Wide 72 x 36 x 25 Tall 300 Wide 96 x 30 x 25 Tall 310 Square 48 x 48 x 31 Tall 340 Gal. 130 x 24 x 25 Tall 375 - 8 Wide 96 x 36 x 25 Tall 500 - 8 Wide [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31357	From: bill1433	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

You must be reading my mind today! � Thanks so much for the formula�����.I forgot! � On the tank?� I have two small, but clear photo�s and would like to send for your perusal but would not do so without your permission? Your call? � bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 1:53 PM Those tank dimensions aren't on any standard tank size lists but the numbers do add up to a 30G tank. The simple formula is L x W x H divided by 231 so yours adds up to 30 x 18 x 13 divided by 231 = 30.38G. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 x 18 x 12 but those numbers add up to 33.66G which seems like it would be sold as a 35G in the industry but who knows. http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 3/16 x 18 1/4 x 12 15/16 which are basically the same as above. Have them re-check their measurements to find out if it's 36" long, instead of 30" or if it's only 12" wide (front to back), instead of 18", just to clarify whether it's a 30G breeder or 20G Long, also sometimes called a 20G breeder. You would probably be able to tell the difference between 18" and 12" on the width (front to back) measurements in the pictures but the 36" or 30" would be tougher to tell without a comparative item in the picture. And yes, I read that acrylic tanks have higher insulation qualities to them as well. My 65G goldfish tank is acrylic but I bought it more for the lighter weight, around 25 pounds, versus over 100 pounds for a 65G glass tank, since I was setting it up on a 2nd floor and that extra 75 pounds might have made a difference. LOL I do know about load bearing walls, etc., so I did put it in a safe place and never had any problems. I also like the look of acrylic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning, I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here. I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed------ ----sort of. There was no heater. The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel! I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area. It was a gift our son received. He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them. It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish. Onward! While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature. It never got below 78 degrees. I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation. Apparently the article was correct. I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely. I currently have 3 Black Tetra's and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well. I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall. This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size. Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it? The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information. Could it be a custom-made tank? From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct. I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------- -----can you? bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 12:53:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31358	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

I put my hood on a timer. 12 hours on 12 hours off. I don't know if its better to allow more dark time, but there is a period in the AM when the tank is off, where the light gradually rises naturally in the room through the windows so, i am wondering if i should let the light stay off till later in the day like around noon? Right now its on from 10 am to 10 pm, only so late because thats when im home and i can hang out with my fishes. So, if the expert replying to this could also hit on this topic that would be cool :) thanks. Not sure i would put my air pump on a timer, if its loud, maybe put it on a soft surface. I used an old sock to keep it from vibrating around alot which made it almost silent. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: > I currently have my air pump sitting on top of the hood to recapture > warm air so at night the water temp doesn't drop. I also place a > towel over the top of the aquarium to insulate the top of the > aquarium. This method works great at keeping the water temperature > stable and am pleased with this method. I'm thinking though of > putting the hood on a timer, and at the same time, putting the air > pump on a timer as well. What is on my mind is would that time that > the air pump is off would co2 build up, and how would it effect my > fish and water chemistry? Aside from the fish, I have a few plants in > the aquarium, but the HOB filter will still be running and agitating > the water surface. Your opinion please. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31359	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Sure, you can send them. I use Gmail as my email service and high-speed internet so email size is rarely an issue for me. I think Gmail allows up to 20MB attachments now which would be a really big picture since most screen size images only run around 100kb. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. You must be reading my mind today! Thanks so much for the formula......I forgot! On the tank? I have two small, but clear photo's and would like to send for your perusal but would not do so without your permission? Your call? bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 1:53 PM Those tank dimensions aren't on any standard tank size lists but the numbers do add up to a 30G tank. The simple formula is L x W x H divided by 231 so yours adds up to 30 x 18 x 13 divided by 231 = 30.38G. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 x 18 x 12 but those numbers add up to 33.66G which seems like it would be sold as a 35G in the industry but who knows. http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 3/16 x 18 1/4 x 12 15/16 which are basically the same as above. Have them re-check their measurements to find out if it's 36" long, instead of 30" or if it's only 12" wide (front to back), instead of 18", just to clarify whether it's a 30G breeder or 20G Long, also sometimes called a 20G breeder. You would probably be able to tell the difference between 18" and 12" on the width (front to back) measurements in the pictures but the 36" or 30" would be tougher to tell without a comparative item in the picture. And yes, I read that acrylic tanks have higher insulation qualities to them as well. My 65G goldfish tank is acrylic but I bought it more for the lighter weight, around 25 pounds, versus over 100 pounds for a 65G glass tank, since I was setting it up on a 2nd floor and that extra 75 pounds might have made a difference. LOL I do know about load bearing walls, etc., so I did put it in a safe place and never had any problems. I also like the look of acrylic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning, I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here. I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed------ ----sort of. There was no heater. The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel! I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area. It was a gift our son received. He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them. It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish. Onward! While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature. It never got below 78 degrees. I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation. Apparently the article was correct. I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely. I currently have 3 Black Tetra's and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well. I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall. This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size. Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it? The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information. Could it be a custom-made tank? From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct. I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------- -----can you? bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 2:58:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31360	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

David, 12 hours of lighting is pretty much the max that I would ever recommend and probably more than most people should have. If you have live plants that require a lot of light and they are doing well and you're not getting algae, then you could probably leave it on that cycle. I would lean more towards the 10 hours of bright lighting... or less... depending on your plants needs. If you are getting algae, you could cut back the full lighting to 10 hours (12 noon till 10 pm) and see how that works out. In nature, neither fish nor aquatic plants get anywhere near 10-12 hours of full lighting. Considering the average daytime is around 12 hours and the morning sun takes a few hours to get high enough in the sky to fully light a waterway and the same in the evening so the fish and plants really only get around 6 hours of full lighting (roughly 10am to 4pm) from nature. Of course, things change further away from the equator but since we are probably talking about tropical fish/plants, the equator would be the standard. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? I put my hood on a timer. 12 hours on 12 hours off. I don't know if its better to allow more dark time, but there is a period in the AM when the tank is off, where the light gradually rises naturally in the room through the windows so, i am wondering if i should let the light stay off till later in the day like around noon? Right now its on from 10 am to 10 pm, only so late because thats when im home and i can hang out with my fishes. So, if the expert replying to this could also hit on this topic that would be cool :) thanks. Not sure i would put my air pump on a timer, if its loud, maybe put it on a soft surface. I used an old sock to keep it from vibrating around alot which made it almost silent. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Chris <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > I currently have my air pump sitting on top of the hood to recapture > warm air so at night the water temp doesn't drop. I also place a towel > over the top of the aquarium to insulate the top of the aquarium. This > method works great at keeping the water temperature stable and am > pleased with this method. I'm thinking though of putting the hood on a > timer, and at the same time, putting the air pump on a timer as well. > What is on my mind is would that time that the air pump is off would > co2 build up, and how would it effect my fish and water chemistry? > Aside from the fish, I have a few plants in the aquarium, but the HOB > filter will still be running and agitating the water surface. Your > opinion please. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 3:05:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 3:14:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31361	From: Jennie	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Experiment!

I did buy some hornwort and have only one filter running now instead of two. So he has his quiet side of the tank. He looks happier! Jennie --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Betta Experiment! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 2:48 AM In case one of us haven't said.. I think I did but it could have been another forum or thread... you want to possibly adjust your filter output so there is an area of one end of the tank surface area that he can claim for his own to build his occasional bubble nests. Even without a female, males are still genetically wired to build their bubble nests and it's likely a stressor if there is too much surface agitation where the nest will not form. Having some floating plants (I've use Anacharis and Hornwort) in that area will also give the bubble nest something to hold onto and lessen the surface agitation in that area. Who knows, he might even try to court that Dalmatian Molly. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:34 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta Experiment! Well I did it. I put my Betta in my 45 gallon tank with Mollys, Dwarf Catfish and Platys. I think he was scared! First he jumped at every fish that got near him. I fed him some peas (he loves them)and he calmed down. Now he does nothing but swim around in a much bigger tank! The Dalmation Molly has a crush on him or something. She follows him as he paces and on the turns they end up nose to nose, she moves over and follows him again. It's funny to watch. Glad he behaves himself, I hated having him in that little 2 gallon tank. Thanks for all your input and help. Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:48:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31362	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

Thank you lenny. My plants are all plastic, and no issues with algae in this new tank yet. i had some in the old tank but the tank was also next to a window that was left with the blinds open some summer days. I never minded the algae, it grew on this one decoration i had and made it look even more authentic than it does when its clean. Is it possible for algae on decorations and tank walls to be bad for the fish or poisonous if eaten? my mom is convinced thats what was killing my pleco's but i am not really so sure. --Dave On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > David, > > 12 hours of lighting is pretty much the max that I would ever recommend and > probably more than most people should have. If you have live plants that > require a lot of light and they are doing well and you're not getting > algae, > then you could probably leave it on that cycle. > > I would lean more towards the 10 hours of bright lighting... or less... > depending on your plants needs. If you are getting algae, you could cut > back the full lighting to 10 hours (12 noon till 10 pm) and see how that > works out. > > In nature, neither fish nor aquatic plants get anywhere near 10-12 hours of > full lighting. Considering the average daytime is around 12 hours and the > morning sun takes a few hours to get high enough in the sky to fully light > a > waterway and the same in the evening so the fish and plants really only get > around 6 hours of full lighting (roughly 10am to 4pm) from nature. Of > course, things change further away from the equator but since we are > probably talking about tropical fish/plants, the equator would be the > standard. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? > > I put my hood on a timer. 12 hours on 12 hours off. I don't know if its > better to allow more dark time, but there is a period in the AM when the > tank is off, where the light gradually rises naturally in the room through > the windows so, i am wondering if i should let the light stay off till > later > in the day like around noon? Right now its on from 10 am to 10 pm, only so > late because thats when im home and i can hang out with my fishes. So, if > the expert replying to this could also hit on this topic that would be cool > :) thanks. Not sure i would put my air pump on a timer, if its loud, maybe > put it on a soft surface. I used an old sock to keep it from vibrating > around alot which made it almost silent. > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Chris <crjm28@...<crjm28%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com <crjm28%2540yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > > I currently have my air pump sitting on top of the hood to recapture > > warm air so at night the water temp doesn't drop. I also place a towel > > over the top of the aquarium to insulate the top of the aquarium. This > > method works great at keeping the water temperature stable and am > > pleased with this method. I'm thinking though of putting the hood on a > > timer, and at the same time, putting the air pump on a timer as well. > > What is on my mind is would that time that the air pump is off would > > co2 build up, and how would it effect my fish and water chemistry? > > Aside from the fish, I have a few plants in the aquarium, but the HOB > > filter will still be running and agitating the water surface. Your > > opinion please. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 > Tested on: 10/15/2008 3:05:00 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 > Tested on: 10/15/2008 3:14:42 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31363	From: Chris	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

What about co2 build up while the pump is off?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31364	From: bill1433	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Here Ya Go Len,   I appreciate your time and opinion,   bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 3:58 PM Sure, you can send them. I use Gmail as my email service and high-speed internet so email size is rarely an issue for me. I think Gmail allows up to 20MB attachments now which would be a really big picture since most screen size images only run around 100kb. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. You must be reading my mind today! Thanks so much for the formula..... .I forgot! On the tank? I have two small, but clear photo's and would like to send for your perusal but would not do so without your permission? Your call? bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 1:53 PM Those tank dimensions aren't on any standard tank size lists but the numbers do add up to a 30G tank. The simple formula is L x W x H divided by 231 so yours adds up to 30 x 18 x 13 divided by 231 = 30.38G. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 x 18 x 12 but those numbers add up to 33.66G which seems like it would be sold as a 35G in the industry but who knows. http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 3/16 x 18 1/4 x 12 15/16 which are basically the same as above. Have them re-check their measurements to find out if it's 36" long, instead of 30" or if it's only 12" wide (front to back), instead of 18", just to clarify whether it's a 30G breeder or 20G Long, also sometimes called a 20G breeder. You would probably be able to tell the difference between 18" and 12" on the width (front to back) measurements in the pictures but the 36" or 30" would be tougher to tell without a comparative item in the picture. And yes, I read that acrylic tanks have higher insulation qualities to them as well. My 65G goldfish tank is acrylic but I bought it more for the lighter weight, around 25 pounds, versus over 100 pounds for a 65G glass tank, since I was setting it up on a 2nd floor and that extra 75 pounds might have made a difference. LOL I do know about load bearing walls, etc., so I did put it in a safe place and never had any problems. I also like the look of acrylic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning, I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here. I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed------ ----sort of. There was no heater. The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel! I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area. It was a gift our son received. He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them. It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish. Onward! While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature. It never got below 78 degrees. I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation. Apparently the article was correct. I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely. I currently have 3 Black Tetra's and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well. I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall. This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size. Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it? The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information. Could it be a custom-made tank? From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct. I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------- -----can you? bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 2:58:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31365	From: Jennie	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

I almost had a big crash with my 45 gal. aquarium. The table it was on my dad made out of angle iron T's and 2" tubing topped with 3/4" particle board. It bent forward after a month of holding the tank. So I built a box out of 2x4's three on each side, sheeted it with 1/2" plywood and put 1x6's and the plywood under the tank. Also a 1/4" sheet of beaded foam insulation under the tank so it won't move. That should hold it. Jennie --- On Wed, 10/15/08, va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: From: va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:45 AM Well the weight of a gallon of water is approx. 8 pounds and then you have to factor in the weight of the gravel and what other ornaments that you may want to add. So to answer your question I wouldn't trust an coffee table or lamp table to hold a 26 gallon. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, caroline <waves02@... > wrote: > > I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak > tables.. as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the > table can handle the tanks weight...... ....scary. .. thank you.. caroline > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31366	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

Well there are some algae, called BGA - Blue Green Algae (which can be other colors also but it's actually cyanobacteria) and that is harmful to most fish but the fish usually know it's bad for them and don't eat it. One of the common causes of an early death to pleco's (they should live well over 10 years and some over 20 years) is lack of a proper diet. So many people think they can live off of algae and whatever isn't eaten by the other fish but pleco's are eating (and pooping) machines and need a varied diet high in fiber/bulk. It's why there should be driftwood in a tank because the pleco's actually gnaw on the wood and eat it. It's also why they'll start eating plants if they don't have enough bulk/fiber in their diets. Many species also need protein in their diets since most pleco's are omnivores. The common inexpensive algae thins are around 45% protein. I currently use Hikari brand algae thins because they are a decent product but Omega One http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html are even better but cost more but they only have 34% protein. As I run out of my other fish food brands, I've been switching my fish and critters over to the Omega One brand since my local PetsMart carries most of them and since PetsMart's will match their online prices, it's not a bad price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? Thank you lenny. My plants are all plastic, and no issues with algae in this new tank yet. i had some in the old tank but the tank was also next to a window that was left with the blinds open some summer days. I never minded the algae, it grew on this one decoration i had and made it look even more authentic than it does when its clean. Is it possible for algae on decorations and tank walls to be bad for the fish or poisonous if eaten? my mom is convinced thats what was killing my pleco's but i am not really so sure. --Dave On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > David, > > 12 hours of lighting is pretty much the max that I would ever > recommend and probably more than most people should have. If you have > live plants that require a lot of light and they are doing well and > you're not getting algae, then you could probably leave it on that > cycle. > > I would lean more towards the 10 hours of bright lighting... or less... > depending on your plants needs. If you are getting algae, you could > cut back the full lighting to 10 hours (12 noon till 10 pm) and see > how that works out. > > In nature, neither fish nor aquatic plants get anywhere near 10-12 > hours of full lighting. Considering the average daytime is around 12 > hours and the morning sun takes a few hours to get high enough in the > sky to fully light a waterway and the same in the evening so the fish > and plants really only get around 6 hours of full lighting (roughly > 10am to 4pm) from nature. Of course, things change further away from > the equator but since we are probably talking about tropical > fish/plants, the equator would be the standard. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? > > I put my hood on a timer. 12 hours on 12 hours off. I don't know if > its better to allow more dark time, but there is a period in the AM > when the tank is off, where the light gradually rises naturally in the > room through the windows so, i am wondering if i should let the light > stay off till later in the day like around noon? Right now its on from > 10 am to 10 pm, only so late because thats when im home and i can hang > out with my fishes. So, if the expert replying to this could also hit > on this topic that would be cool > :) thanks. Not sure i would put my air pump on a timer, if its loud, > maybe put it on a soft surface. I used an old sock to keep it from > vibrating around alot which made it almost silent. > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Chris <crjm28@... > <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> <crjm28%40yahoo.com> <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com <crjm28%2540yahoo.com> >> > wrote: > > > I currently have my air pump sitting on top of the hood to recapture > > warm air so at night the water temp doesn't drop. I also place a > > towel over the top of the aquarium to insulate the top of the > > aquarium. This method works great at keeping the water temperature > > stable and am pleased with this method. I'm thinking though of > > putting the hood on a timer, and at the same time, putting the air pump on a timer as well. > > What is on my mind is would that time that the air pump is off would > > co2 build up, and how would it effect my fish and water chemistry? > > Aside from the fish, I have a few plants in the aquarium, but the > > HOB filter will still be running and agitating the water surface. > > Your opinion please. > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:19:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Oops... I'm not sure if you included the images with this email but you would have to email me off-list with the images since the group is set up to not allow attachments for computer security and spammer purposes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Here Ya Go Len, I appreciate your time and opinion, bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 3:58 PM Sure, you can send them. I use Gmail as my email service and high-speed internet so email size is rarely an issue for me. I think Gmail allows up to 20MB attachments now which would be a really big picture since most screen size images only run around 100kb. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. You must be reading my mind today! Thanks so much for the formula..... .I forgot! On the tank? I have two small, but clear photo's and would like to send for your perusal but would not do so without your permission? Your call? bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 1:53 PM Those tank dimensions aren't on any standard tank size lists but the numbers do add up to a 30G tank. The simple formula is L x W x H divided by 231 so yours adds up to 30 x 18 x 13 divided by 231 = 30.38G. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 x 18 x 12 but those numbers add up to 33.66G which seems like it would be sold as a 35G in the industry but who knows. http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 3/16 x 18 1/4 x 12 15/16 which are basically the same as above. Have them re-check their measurements to find out if it's 36" long, instead of 30" or if it's only 12" wide (front to back), instead of 18", just to clarify whether it's a 30G breeder or 20G Long, also sometimes called a 20G breeder. You would probably be able to tell the difference between 18" and 12" on the width (front to back) measurements in the pictures but the 36" or 30" would be tougher to tell without a comparative item in the picture. And yes, I read that acrylic tanks have higher insulation qualities to them as well. My 65G goldfish tank is acrylic but I bought it more for the lighter weight, around 25 pounds, versus over 100 pounds for a 65G glass tank, since I was setting it up on a 2nd floor and that extra 75 pounds might have made a difference. LOL I do know about load bearing walls, etc., so I did put it in a safe place and never had any problems. I also like the look of acrylic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning, I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here. I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed------ ----sort of. There was no heater. The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel! I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area. It was a gift our son received. He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them. It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish. Onward! While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature. It never got below 78 degrees. I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation. Apparently the article was correct. I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely. I currently have 3 Black Tetra's and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well. I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall. This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size. Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it? The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information. Could it be a custom-made tank? From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct. I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------- -----can you? bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081014-0, 10/14/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 2:58:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:30:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:32:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31368	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

Yep. Big difference between a 45G and a 26G. Stands for 30G tanks and larger should be properly built to handle the weight and standard furniture engineering will not be sufficient. Under 30G tanks may work out on standard home furniture as long as it's decent quality furniture. I built the stand/frame for my 65G for less than $20.00 in materials (2x4's and screws) and I have a blog article showing the step by step work with photos. It's a 48" x 18" foot print and could likely hold a much, much larger tank. That stand is a beast! LOL One day, I'll get around to doing the cosmetic finishing but I built it back in June or July of 2005 as a quickie project and then Hurricane Katrina hit and changed all of my plans... and my furniture too. I was originally going to finish the stand in a rough pine (country look) but thanks to Katrina, I have fancier furniture (cherry) so I never got around to coming up with a design to match the cherry wood stuff I now have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash I almost had a big crash with my 45 gal. aquarium. The table it was on my dad made out of angle iron T's and 2" tubing topped with 3/4" particle board. It bent forward after a month of holding the tank. So I built a box out of 2x4's three on each side, sheeted it with 1/2" plywood and put 1x6's and the plywood under the tank. Also a 1/4" sheet of beaded foam insulation under the tank so it won't move. That should hold it. Jennie --- On Wed, 10/15/08, va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@... <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@... <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:45 AM Well the weight of a gallon of water is approx. 8 pounds and then you have to factor in the weight of the gravel and what other ornaments that you may want to add. So to answer your question I wouldn't trust an coffee table or lamp table to hold a 26 gallon. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, caroline <waves02@... > wrote: > > I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak tables.. > as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the table can > handle the tanks weight...... ....scary. .. thank you.. caroline > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:32:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:40:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31369	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

I guess you would need to know how big your tank really is and how many fish you have and how big they maybe? I can make some guesses, but from different things ive read about power outages and such, that if the filter stops more than a half hour to an hour that can begin to cause issues. If your filter runs and causes a trickle, where the water has to fall onto the main body and you get bubbles from that, you might be ok with a low population of fish. You may wish to find an alternate solution to stopping the bubbler. that would be my recommendation. CO2 and o2 are transfered through the water surface, and there needs to be agitation (bubbles or other running water breaking the surface) to help spur that transfer process. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: > What about co2 build up while the pump is off? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31370	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

Thanks. I guess I won't turn it off then. What kind of troubles do you have when the filter is off too long? ----- Original Message ---- From: David Keymel <azzuron@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:19:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Would this be a mistake? I guess you would need to know how big your tank really is and how many fish you have and how big they maybe? I can make some guesses, but from different things ive read about power outages and such, that if the filter stops more than a half hour to an hour that can begin to cause issues. If your filter runs and causes a trickle, where the water has to fall onto the main body and you get bubbles from that, you might be ok with a low population of fish. You may wish to find an alternate solution to stopping the bubbler. that would be my recommendation. CO2 and o2 are transfered through the water surface, and there needs to be agitation (bubbles or other running water breaking the surface) to help spur that transfer process. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > What about co2 build up while the pump is off? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31371	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

The risk is just too great I would only use furniture built specifically for holding a tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash Yep. Big difference between a 45G and a 26G. Stands for 30G tanks and larger should be properly built to handle the weight and standard furniture engineering will not be sufficient. Under 30G tanks may work out on standard home furniture as long as it's decent quality furniture. I built the stand/frame for my 65G for less than $20.00 in materials (2x4's and screws) and I have a blog article showing the step by step work with photos. It's a 48" x 18" foot print and could likely hold a much, much larger tank. That stand is a beast! LOL One day, I'll get around to doing the cosmetic finishing but I built it back in June or July of 2005 as a quickie project and then Hurricane Katrina hit and changed all of my plans... and my furniture too. I was originally going to finish the stand in a rough pine (country look) but thanks to Katrina, I have fancier furniture (cherry) so I never got around to coming up with a design to match the cherry wood stuff I now have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:21 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash I almost had a big crash with my 45 gal. aquarium. The table it was on my dad made out of angle iron T's and 2" tubing topped with 3/4" particle board. It bent forward after a month of holding the tank. So I built a box out of 2x4's three on each side, sheeted it with 1/2" plywood and put 1x6's and the plywood under the tank. Also a 1/4" sheet of beaded foam insulation under the tank so it won't move. That should hold it. Jennie --- On Wed, 10/15/08, va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@ <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@ <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:45 AM Well the weight of a gallon of water is approx. 8 pounds and then you have to factor in the weight of the gravel and what other ornaments that you may want to add. So to answer your question I wouldn't trust an coffee table or lamp table to hold a 26 gallon. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, caroline <waves02@... > wrote: > > I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak tables.. > as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the table can > handle the tanks weight...... ....scary. .. thank you.. caroline > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:32:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:40:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31372	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

Water is about 8.4 Lbs. per gallon. To figure the tank and the substrate, decorations, etc., I usually rough it to 10 lbs per gallon of tank size. That would mean that your little 26 gallon would weigh, when setup, in the neighborhood of 260 lbs. Now, if you know someone who weighs in at the same neighborhood, you could have them sit on the table, not moving, for several weeks to see if that piece of furniture will stand up to the weight (should it come crashing down, they would have a better chance at survival in one piece than a tank), or, you could build or buy a proper stand for the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] do not want a big crash I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak tables.. as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the table can handle the tanks weight..........scary... thank you.. caroline ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31373	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

From the site www.glasscages.com, 33 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 13 Tall $64. That is a breeder tank. The tank you mention will hold near 30 gallons (a bit on the shy side, though), and would probably have been used as a breeder--depends on what one is breeding <g>. Now, if you are trying to come to some sort of agreement with "she who is to be obeyed", well, you might want to start with this: 500 - 8 Wide 96 x 48 x 25 Tall $2200, and slowly work your way down <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning,   I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here.   I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed----------sort of.  There was no heater.  The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel!  I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area.  It was a gift our son received.  He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them.  It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish.  Onward!   While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature.  It never got below 78 degrees.  I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation.  Apparently the article was correct.  I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely.  I currently have 3 Black Tetra's  and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well.   I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall.  This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location  in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size.  Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it?  The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information.  Could it be a custom-made tank?  From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct.  I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------------can you?   bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31374	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

My raw JPG's from my camera run from about 700KB to over 1.6MB. Remember JPG's are already compressed to a certain extent. The actual raw photo, as an example, is 9088KB vs. the same photo as a JPG weighing in at 989KB. Those 100KB screen size photos you speak of have probably already been edited and severely compressed to give the small size you quote. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Sure, you can send them. I use Gmail as my email service and high-speed internet so email size is rarely an issue for me. I think Gmail allows up to 20MB attachments now which would be a really big picture since most screen size images only run around 100kb. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. You must be reading my mind today! Thanks so much for the formula......I forgot! On the tank? I have two small, but clear photo's and would like to send for your perusal but would not do so without your permission? Your call? bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 1:53 PM Those tank dimensions aren't on any standard tank size lists but the numbers do add up to a 30G tank. The simple formula is L x W x H divided by 231 so yours adds up to 30 x 18 x 13 divided by 231 = 30.38G. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 x 18 x 12 but those numbers add up to 33.66G which seems like it would be sold as a 35G in the industry but who knows. http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 3/16 x 18 1/4 x 12 15/16 which are basically the same as above. Have them re-check their measurements to find out if it's 36" long, instead of 30" or if it's only 12" wide (front to back), instead of 18", just to clarify whether it's a 30G breeder or 20G Long, also sometimes called a 20G breeder. You would probably be able to tell the difference between 18" and 12" on the width (front to back) measurements in the pictures but the 36" or 30" would be tougher to tell without a comparative item in the picture. And yes, I read that acrylic tanks have higher insulation qualities to them as well. My 65G goldfish tank is acrylic but I bought it more for the lighter weight, around 25 pounds, versus over 100 pounds for a 65G glass tank, since I was setting it up on a 2nd floor and that extra 75 pounds might have made a difference. LOL I do know about load bearing walls, etc., so I did put it in a safe place and never had any problems. I also like the look of acrylic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning, I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here. I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed------ ----sort of. There was no heater. The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel! I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area. It was a gift our son received. He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them. It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish. Onward! While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature. It never got below 78 degrees. I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation. Apparently the article was correct. I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely. I currently have 3 Black Tetra's and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well. I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall. This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size. Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it? The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information. Could it be a custom-made tank? From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct. I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------- -----can you? bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31375	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

Dressers are great, and you can use the drawers to shore your equipment and feed lines through the back If you prefer you can drape the dresser. ----- Original Message ---- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 7:29:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash The risk is just too great�I would only use furniture built specifically for holding a tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash Yep. Big difference between a 45G and a 26G. Stands for 30G tanks and larger should be properly built to handle the weight and standard furniture engineering will not be sufficient. Under 30G tanks may work out on standard home furniture as long as it's decent quality furniture. I built the stand/frame for my 65G for less than $20.00 in materials (2x4's and screws) and I have a blog article showing the step by step work with photos. It's a 48" x 18" foot print and could likely hold a much, much larger tank. That stand is a beast! LOL One day, I'll get around to doing the cosmetic finishing but I built it back in June or July of 2005 as a quickie project and then Hurricane Katrina hit and changed all of my plans... and my furniture too. I was originally going to finish the stand in a rough pine (country look) but thanks to Katrina, I have fancier furniture (cherry) so I never got around to coming up with a design to match the cherry wood stuff I now have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.. <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:21 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash I almost had a big crash with my 45 gal. aquarium. The table it was on my dad made out of angle iron T's and 2" tubing topped with 3/4" particle board. It bent forward after a month of holding the tank. So I built a box out of 2x4's three on each side, sheeted it with 1/2" plywood and put 1x6's and the plywood under the tank. Also a 1/4" sheet of beaded foam insulation under the tank so it won't move.. That should hold it. Jennie --- On Wed, 10/15/08, va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@ <mailto:va22_ vyshys%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com <mailto:va22_ vyshys%40yahoo. com> > wrote: From: va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@ <mailto:va22_ vyshys%40yahoo. com> yahoo.com <mailto:va22_ vyshys%40yahoo. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:45 AM Well the weight of a gallon of water is approx. 8 pounds and then you have to factor in the weight of the gravel and what other ornaments that you may want to add. So to answer your question I wouldn't trust an coffee table or lamp table to hold a 26 gallon. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, caroline <waves02@... > wrote: > > I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak tables.. > as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the table can > handle the tanks weight...... .....scary. .. thank you.. caroline > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:32:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:40:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31376	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

Awwww... come on Donna. I've heard about your wild parties where you and a few girlfriends are dancing on the coffee table. ;-) I'm still waiting for my invite. :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash The risk is just too great I would only use furniture built specifically for holding a tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash Yep. Big difference between a 45G and a 26G. Stands for 30G tanks and larger should be properly built to handle the weight and standard furniture engineering will not be sufficient. Under 30G tanks may work out on standard home furniture as long as it's decent quality furniture. I built the stand/frame for my 65G for less than $20.00 in materials (2x4's and screws) and I have a blog article showing the step by step work with photos. It's a 48" x 18" foot print and could likely hold a much, much larger tank. That stand is a beast! LOL One day, I'll get around to doing the cosmetic finishing but I built it back in June or July of 2005 as a quickie project and then Hurricane Katrina hit and changed all of my plans... and my furniture too. I was originally going to finish the stand in a rough pine (country look) but thanks to Katrina, I have fancier furniture (cherry) so I never got around to coming up with a design to match the cherry wood stuff I now have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:21 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash I almost had a big crash with my 45 gal. aquarium. The table it was on my dad made out of angle iron T's and 2" tubing topped with 3/4" particle board. It bent forward after a month of holding the tank. So I built a box out of 2x4's three on each side, sheeted it with 1/2" plywood and put 1x6's and the plywood under the tank. Also a 1/4" sheet of beaded foam insulation under the tank so it won't move. That should hold it. Jennie --- On Wed, 10/15/08, va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@ <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@ <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:45 AM Well the weight of a gallon of water is approx. 8 pounds and then you have to factor in the weight of the gravel and what other ornaments that you may want to add. So to answer your question I wouldn't trust an coffee table or lamp table to hold a 26 gallon. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, caroline <waves02@... > wrote: > > I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak tables.. > as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the table can > handle the tanks weight...... ....scary. .. thank you.. caroline > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:32:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:40:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 6:34:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 8:01:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31377	From: bill1433	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Hi Steve � You�re obviously a man with a sense of humor. � Sorry to disappoint with the breeding--------least for right now.� As far as the �she who must be obeyed� you must have missed my first intro posting. Please believe me when I tell you that the CEO paid her dues the first time around in this hobby.� i.e.?� I use to change so much water in the house I actually had a garden hose running through it!� No, I�m not kidding! � Just and ol� guy here trying to catch up on things.� The tank in question is one of those Internet for sale type of things and just trying to get more information about it.� I visited the site you mentioned (among others today) trying to gain more information on this size. � It be more to the point with you the seller said that it also came with an under gravel filter plate and I wanted to be sure it covered the tanks bottom properly.�� Making only half the distance just ain�t gonna get it, if you know what I mean. � good hearing from you, � bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:36 PM From the site www.glasscages. com, 33 Gal. 48 x 12� x 13 Tall $64. That is a breeder tank. The tank you mention will hold near 30 gallons (a bit on the shy side, though), and would probably have been used as a breeder--depends on what one is breeding <g>. Now, if you are trying to come to some sort of agreement with "she who is to be obeyed", well, you might want to start with this: 500 - 8 Wide 96 x 48 x 25 Tall $2200, and slowly work your way down <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning, � I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here. � I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed------ ----sort of.� There was no heater.� The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel!� I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area.� It was a gift our son received.� He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them.� It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish.� Onward! � While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature. �It never got below 78 degrees.� I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation.� Apparently the article was correct.� I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely.� I currently have 3 Black Tetra's� and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well. � I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall.� This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location� in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size.� Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it?� The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information.� Could it be a custom-made tank?� From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct.� I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------- -----can you? � bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31378	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Yeah. I was talking about images snagged from most webpages since Bill referred to the pictures being "small" and from the ad on the tank he was considering. Personally, I keep my digital camera set to where the standard pics are only around 250kb which I find are plenty big enough for most cases. Some of the businesses I deal with want them much smaller so I do resize them when needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 7:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. My raw JPG's from my camera run from about 700KB to over 1.6MB. Remember JPG's are already compressed to a certain extent. The actual raw photo, as an example, is 9088KB vs. the same photo as a JPG weighing in at 989KB. Those 100KB screen size photos you speak of have probably already been edited and severely compressed to give the small size you quote. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Sure, you can send them. I use Gmail as my email service and high-speed internet so email size is rarely an issue for me. I think Gmail allows up to 20MB attachments now which would be a really big picture since most screen size images only run around 100kb. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. You must be reading my mind today! Thanks so much for the formula......I forgot! On the tank? I have two small, but clear photo's and would like to send for your perusal but would not do so without your permission? Your call? bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 1:53 PM Those tank dimensions aren't on any standard tank size lists but the numbers do add up to a 30G tank. The simple formula is L x W x H divided by 231 so yours adds up to 30 x 18 x 13 divided by 231 = 30.38G. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 x 18 x 12 but those numbers add up to 33.66G which seems like it would be sold as a 35G in the industry but who knows. http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm has a 30G breeder tank at 36 3/16 x 18 1/4 x 12 15/16 which are basically the same as above. Have them re-check their measurements to find out if it's 36" long, instead of 30" or if it's only 12" wide (front to back), instead of 18", just to clarify whether it's a 30G breeder or 20G Long, also sometimes called a 20G breeder. You would probably be able to tell the difference between 18" and 12" on the width (front to back) measurements in the pictures but the 36" or 30" would be tougher to tell without a comparative item in the picture. And yes, I read that acrylic tanks have higher insulation qualities to them as well. My 65G goldfish tank is acrylic but I bought it more for the lighter weight, around 25 pounds, versus over 100 pounds for a 65G glass tank, since I was setting it up on a 2nd floor and that extra 75 pounds might have made a difference. LOL I do know about load bearing walls, etc., so I did put it in a safe place and never had any problems. I also like the look of acrylic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning, I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here. I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed------ ----sort of. There was no heater. The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel! I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area. It was a gift our son received. He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them. It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish. Onward! While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature. It never got below 78 degrees. I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation. Apparently the article was correct. I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely. I currently have 3 Black Tetra's and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well. I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall. This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size. Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it? The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information. Could it be a custom-made tank? From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct. I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------- -----can you? bill ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 7:56:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 8:12:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31379	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

You wont have the filtration or water circulation, and the bacteria's that process the ammonia wastes and the nitrite wastes cannot do their job effectively as the water doesn't flow past them, so they cannot feed on it, so they may die, and you will not get their effect in any regard which is important, the conversion of ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. Also if you use a carbon cartridge in your filter you will not get the benefit of impurities being taken out of the water. I guess you could think of it like this. Imagine being in a sealed box with several plants. no air in or out of the box. with the plants you can breath because you have a symbiotic relationship. you produce carbon dioxide, and they produce oxygen from the carbon dioxide and it goes on like this. Take out the plants and you die. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Chris Johnson <crjm28@...> wrote: > Thanks. I guess I won't turn it off then. What kind of troubles do you > have when the filter is off too long? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: David Keymel <azzuron@... <azzuron%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:19:00 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Would this be a mistake? > > I guess you would need to know how big your tank really is and how many > fish > you have and how big they maybe? I can make some guesses, but from > different > things ive read about power outages and such, that if the filter stops more > than a half hour to an hour that can begin to cause issues. If your filter > runs and causes a trickle, where the water has to fall onto the main body > and you get bubbles from that, you might be ok with a low population of > fish. You may wish to find an alternate solution to stopping the bubbler. > that would be my recommendation. CO2 and o2 are transfered through the > water > surface, and there needs to be agitation (bubbles or other running water > breaking the surface) to help spur that transfer process. > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > What about co2 build up while the pump is off? > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31380	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

Yep David. You hit on the main reason in the second paragraph. Nitrifying bacteria need lots of O2 so when the filter stops running, the water in the filter reservoir quickly starts to stagnate and once the O2 levels get too low, the bacteria starts to die, further stagnating the water. There's actually plenty of ammonia/nitrites in the stagnant reservoir water, due to the continually decaying detritus in the filter media, but since there's a severely low O2 level, the bacteria can't handle it anyhow. This is the primary reason why there needs to be plenty of water flow through a filter. I regularly see people posting (in other forums) that they do not clean their filters until the water flow starts to be impeded but this is too little, too late as the nitrifying bacteria will have started to die off and then when they do clean their filters, they have to over clean them to remove the excessive amount of detritus which further kills off some of the nitrifying bacteria. The best thing to do is weekly PWC's and rinsing the filter media off in removed tank water at least every two weeks... or more frequently if there is a heavy bioload in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Would this be a mistake? You wont have the filtration or water circulation, and the bacteria's that process the ammonia wastes and the nitrite wastes cannot do their job effectively as the water doesn't flow past them, so they cannot feed on it, so they may die, and you will not get their effect in any regard which is important, the conversion of ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. Also if you use a carbon cartridge in your filter you will not get the benefit of impurities being taken out of the water. I guess you could think of it like this. Imagine being in a sealed box with several plants. no air in or out of the box. with the plants you can breath because you have a symbiotic relationship. you produce carbon dioxide, and they produce oxygen from the carbon dioxide and it goes on like this. Take out the plants and you die. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Chris Johnson <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > Thanks. I guess I won't turn it off then. What kind of troubles do you > have when the filter is off too long? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: David Keymel <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > <azzuron%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:19:00 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Would this be a mistake? > > I guess you would need to know how big your tank really is and how > many fish you have and how big they maybe? I can make some guesses, > but from different things ive read about power outages and such, that > if the filter stops more than a half hour to an hour that can begin to > cause issues. If your filter runs and causes a trickle, where the > water has to fall onto the main body and you get bubbles from that, > you might be ok with a low population of fish. You may wish to find an > alternate solution to stopping the bubbler. > that would be my recommendation. CO2 and o2 are transfered through the > water surface, and there needs to be agitation (bubbles or other > running water breaking the surface) to help spur that transfer > process. > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > What about co2 build up while the pump is off? > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 8:25:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 8:32:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31381	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

In the absence of light, plants also produce carbon dioxide. If you have a well planted tank, do a pH test in the morning, before you turn on the lights. Do the same in the evening just before lights out. I'll bet dollars to donuts that the pH is higher just prior to lights out. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Would this be a mistake? You wont have the filtration or water circulation, and the bacteria's that process the ammonia wastes and the nitrite wastes cannot do their job effectively as the water doesn't flow past them, so they cannot feed on it, so they may die, and you will not get their effect in any regard which is important, the conversion of ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. Also if you use a carbon cartridge in your filter you will not get the benefit of impurities being taken out of the water. I guess you could think of it like this. Imagine being in a sealed box with several plants. no air in or out of the box. with the plants you can breath because you have a symbiotic relationship. you produce carbon dioxide, and they produce oxygen from the carbon dioxide and it goes on like this. Take out the plants and you die. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Chris Johnson <crjm28@...> wrote: > Thanks. I guess I won't turn it off then. What kind of troubles do you > have when the filter is off too long? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: David Keymel <azzuron@... <azzuron%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:19:00 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Would this be a mistake? > > I guess you would need to know how big your tank really is and how many > fish > you have and how big they maybe? I can make some guesses, but from > different > things ive read about power outages and such, that if the filter stops more > than a half hour to an hour that can begin to cause issues. If your filter > runs and causes a trickle, where the water has to fall onto the main body > and you get bubbles from that, you might be ok with a low population of > fish. You may wish to find an alternate solution to stopping the bubbler. > that would be my recommendation. CO2 and o2 are transfered through the > water > surface, and there needs to be agitation (bubbles or other running water > breaking the surface) to help spur that transfer process. > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > What about co2 build up while the pump is off? > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31382	From: Alina	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

This is a little long, so bear with me.. ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the appearance of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific term :-)! )with first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still having high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, and have hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes three 25% PWC a day. The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to .25, then back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next day or so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the nasties? First, I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel cleanings have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any for about 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my fish? Can my fish infect another tank? 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my filter media? 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while and see? 5. Do nothing? I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish (remember, my tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move my fish to that tank, and break mine down. At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my aquarium system in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they resurface. With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can live with a snail here and there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from an infected tank. I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the snail while I treat my tank. Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies for the length. I just want to do the right thing this time! Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31383	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

I've done half a tank with UGF's before, and they worked quite well. You simply cannot load up your tank as people are wont to do. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Hi Steve   You're obviously a man with a sense of humor.   Sorry to disappoint with the breeding--------least for right now.  As far as the "she who must be obeyed" you must have missed my first intro posting. Please believe me when I tell you that the CEO paid her dues the first time around in this hobby.  i.e.?  I use to change so much water in the house I actually had a garden hose running through it!  No, I'm not kidding!   Just and ol' guy here trying to catch up on things.  The tank in question is one of those Internet for sale type of things and just trying to get more information about it.  I visited the site you mentioned (among others today) trying to gain more information on this size.   It be more to the point with you the seller said that it also came with an under gravel filter plate and I wanted to be sure it covered the tanks bottom properly.   Making only half the distance just ain't gonna get it, if you know what I mean.   good hearing from you,   bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:36 PM From the site www.glasscages. com, 33 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 13 Tall $64. That is a breeder tank. The tank you mention will hold near 30 gallons (a bit on the shy side, though), and would probably have been used as a breeder--depends on what one is breeding <g>. Now, if you are trying to come to some sort of agreement with "she who is to be obeyed", well, you might want to start with this: 500 - 8 Wide 96 x 48 x 25 Tall $2200, and slowly work your way down <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning,   I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here.   I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed------ ----sort of.  There was no heater.  The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel!  I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area.  It was a gift our son received.  He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them.  It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish.  Onward!   While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature.  It never got below 78 degrees.  I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation.  Apparently the article was correct.  I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely.  I currently have 3 Black Tetra's  and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well.   I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall.  This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location  in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size.  Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it?  The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information.  Could it be a custom-made tank?  From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct.  I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------- -----can you?   bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31384	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

If your nitrites are around 1.0ppm, that's where you want them at until they drop down to 0.0ppm and stay there. You need some nitrites to feed the nitrite eating bacteria so they will continue to grow. They are probably a much larger colony than a few days ago so it's not going to be much longer. Is your nitrAte reading going up between PWC's? It should be and I just want to make sure it is. Yes, there is always a chance of transferring snails with plants, decorations, gravel and possibly even the filter media although it's less likely if you have an HOB or canister filter and the intake isn't touching the sides or bottom of the tank. Snails are not generally in the water column but they could be on a piece of plant leaf that gets sucked into the filter. The main thing is to keep trapping/removing them and not overfeed the fish and keep the tank in good shape and snails won't be much of a problem. You just got hit at a bad time with a big hatching from one of your plants and since they didn't have a lot to eat, they started dying off and fouled your water. I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a natural part of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of control and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do harm to the ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do have a big Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I guess the goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a beautifully planted tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. Your problem was all the snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the nitrifying bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't trash the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic breeders and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance of food. You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs ready to hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using as a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you ever see them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that you're not cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails This is a little long, so bear with me.. ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the appearance of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific term :-)! )with first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still having high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, and have hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes three 25% PWC a day. The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to .25, then back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next day or so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the nasties? First, I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel cleanings have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any for about 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my fish? Can my fish infect another tank? 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my filter media? 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while and see? 5. Do nothing? I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish (remember, my tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move my fish to that tank, and break mine down. At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my aquarium system in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they resurface. With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can live with a snail here and there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from an infected tank. I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the snail while I treat my tank. Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies for the length. I just want to do the right thing this time! Alina ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31385	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

Lighs out and no aeration which causes co2 to build up (that not only makes it hard for the fish to breath) and ph drops dramatically. Then back up again, then back down, then back up....I'm not sure that is safe. ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:42:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Would this be a mistake? In the absence of light, plants also produce carbon dioxide. If you have a well planted tank, do a pH test in the morning, before you turn on the lights. Do the same in the evening just before lights out. I'll bet dollars to donuts that the pH is higher just prior to lights out. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Would this be a mistake? You wont have the filtration or water circulation, and the bacteria's that process the ammonia wastes and the nitrite wastes cannot do their job effectively as the water doesn't flow past them, so they cannot feed on it, so they may die, and you will not get their effect in any regard which is important, the conversion of ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. Also if you use a carbon cartridge in your filter you will not get the benefit of impurities being taken out of the water. I guess you could think of it like this. Imagine being in a sealed box with several plants. no air in or out of the box. with the plants you can breath because you have a symbiotic relationship. you produce carbon dioxide, and they produce oxygen from the carbon dioxide and it goes on like this. Take out the plants and you die. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Chris Johnson <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > Thanks. I guess I won't turn it off then. What kind of troubles do you > have when the filter is off too long? > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: David Keymel <azzuron@gmail. com <azzuron%40gmail. com>> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:19:00 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Would this be a mistake? > > I guess you would need to know how big your tank really is and how many > fish > you have and how big they maybe? I can make some guesses, but from > different > things ive read about power outages and such, that if the filter stops more > than a half hour to an hour that can begin to cause issues. If your filter > runs and causes a trickle, where the water has to fall onto the main body > and you get bubbles from that, you might be ok with a low population of > fish. You may wish to find an alternate solution to stopping the bubbler. > that would be my recommendation. CO2 and o2 are transfered through the > water > surface, and there needs to be agitation (bubbles or other running water > breaking the surface) to help spur that transfer process. > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > What about co2 build up while the pump is off? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31386	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: do not want a big crash

Dancing on the coffee table, maybe. Fish tank on the coffee table no. LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash Awwww... come on Donna. I've heard about your wild parties where you and a few girlfriends are dancing on the coffee table. ;-) I'm still waiting for my invite. :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash The risk is just too great I would only use furniture built specifically for holding a tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash Yep. Big difference between a 45G and a 26G. Stands for 30G tanks and larger should be properly built to handle the weight and standard furniture engineering will not be sufficient. Under 30G tanks may work out on standard home furniture as long as it's decent quality furniture. I built the stand/frame for my 65G for less than $20.00 in materials (2x4's and screws) and I have a blog article showing the step by step work with photos. It's a 48" x 18" foot print and could likely hold a much, much larger tank. That stand is a beast! LOL One day, I'll get around to doing the cosmetic finishing but I built it back in June or July of 2005 as a quickie project and then Hurricane Katrina hit and changed all of my plans... and my furniture too. I was originally going to finish the stand in a rough pine (country look) but thanks to Katrina, I have fancier furniture (cherry) so I never got around to coming up with a design to match the cherry wood stuff I now have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:21 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash I almost had a big crash with my 45 gal. aquarium. The table it was on my dad made out of angle iron T's and 2" tubing topped with 3/4" particle board. It bent forward after a month of holding the tank. So I built a box out of 2x4's three on each side, sheeted it with 1/2" plywood and put 1x6's and the plywood under the tank. Also a 1/4" sheet of beaded foam insulation under the tank so it won't move. That should hold it. Jennie --- On Wed, 10/15/08, va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@ <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@ <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: do not want a big crash To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:45 AM Well the weight of a gallon of water is approx. 8 pounds and then you have to factor in the weight of the gravel and what other ornaments that you may want to add. So to answer your question I wouldn't trust an coffee table or lamp table to hold a 26 gallon. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, caroline <waves02@... > wrote: > > I bought a 26 gallon.. curved tank..glass. I have extra oak tables.. > as in coffee table.. lamp table.. how can you tell, if the table can > handle the tanks weight...... ....scary. .. thank you.. caroline > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:32:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 4:40:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 6:34:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 8:01:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31387	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Hey Pam, Where can I get one of these? I'm having a hard time finding the right size tank here in Miami. Thx, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:14:50 To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Below is a chart that shows many tank sizes. A 30 long, I believe is 36 inches long. I have no idea what a 30 high or 30 breeder are. Pam here is a chart from all glass on tanks give an good estimate on what size you have Name Description Price Options ½ - 5 8 x 16 x 6 Tall ½ - 3 6 x 12 x 6 Tall ½ - 10 10 x 20 x 6 Tall 5½ Gal. 16 x 8 x 11 Tall ½ - 15 12½ x 24 x 6 Tall ½ - 29 12½ x 30 x 6 Tall 8 Tall 16 x 8 x 13 Tall 10 Tall 16 x 8 x 17 Tall 15 Long 24 x 12½ x 13 Tall 20 Tall 24 x 12½ x 17 Tall 20 Long 30 x 12½ x 13 Tall 15 Tall 20 x 10 x 17 Tall 29 Gal. 30 x 12½ x 17 Tall 27 Gal. 36 x 12½ x 13 Tall 38 Gal. 36 x 12½ x 17 Tall 33 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 13 Tall 45 Long 48 x 12½ x 17 Tall 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13 Tall 20 square 24 x 24 x 13 tall 50 Tall 36 x 18 x 17 Tall 50 Long 48 x 18 x 13 Tall 55 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 21 Tall 65 Gal. 48 x 18 x 17 Tall 40 Square 24 x 24 x 17 tall 75 Tall 48 x 18 x 21 Tall 45 Tall 36 x 12½ x 25 Tall 70 Tall 36 x 18 x 25 Tall 67 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 25 Tall 90 Long 48 x 18 x 25 Tall 60 Square 24 x 24 x 25 Tall 70 Wide 48 x 24 x 13 Tall 50 Square 30 x 31 x 13 Tall 75 Long 72 x 18 x 13 Tall 65 Wide 36 x 24 x 17 Tall 100 Long 72 x 18 x 17 Tall 90 Tall 36 x 18 x 31 Tall 95 - 4 Wide 48 x 24 x 17 Tall 80 Cube 24 x 24 x 31 Tall 135 Gal. 72 x 18 x 24 Tall 125 Tall 60 x 18 x 25 Tall 120 Gal. 48 x 24 x 25 Tall 100 Wide 72 x 24 x 13 Tall 115 Gal. 48 x 18 x 31 Tall 70 Square 30 x 30 x 17 Tall 95 -3 Wide 36 x 24 x 25 Tall 125 Wide 72 x 24 x 17 Tall 118 Gal. 36 x 24 x 31 Tall 100 Square 30 x 30 x 25 Tall 150 Long 60 x 24 x 25 Tall 150 Tall 48 x 24 x 31 Tall 120 Cube 30 x 30 x 31 Tall 180 Wide 72 x 24 x 25 Tall 150 - 4 Wide 48 x 30 x 25 Tall 140 Square 36 x 36 x 25 Tall 170 Gal. 48 x 24 x 35 Tall 180 Tall 72 x 18 x 31 Tall 130 Square 48 x 48 x 13 Tall 240 Long 96 x 24 x 25 Tall 180 - 8 96 x 18 x 25 Tall 175 Square 48 x 48 x 17 Tall 175 Square 36 x 36 x 31 Tall 240 - 6 Tall 72 x 24 x 31 Tall 190 - 4 Wide 48 x 36 x 25 Tall 190 Tall 60 x 24 x 31 Tall 195 - 5 Wide 60 x 30 x 25 Tall 240 - 5 Wide 60 x 36 x 25 Tall 240 Wide 72 x 30 x 25 Tall 240 - 4 Square 48 x 48 x 25 Tall 240 - 8 Tall 96 x 18 x 31 Tall 300 Tall 96 x 24 x 31 Tall 280 - 6 Wide 72 x 36 x 25 Tall 300 Wide 96 x 30 x 25 Tall 310 Square 48 x 48 x 31 Tall 340 Gal. 130 x 24 x 25 Tall 375 - 8 Wide 96 x 36 x 25 Tall 500 - 8 Wide [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31388	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

I don’t see how the snails are causing the ammonia, but I might not have read all the threads. I have a gazillion snails that also started as a cute hitchhiker, so I know how annoying they can be. IMO answers to #1 and #2 is yes. #3 and #5 is no. #4 keep the plants, but give them a dip to get rid of the snails. For the cycle, option 1 is to add Dr. Tim’s One and Only bacteria to advance the cycle. That saves the water changes. Or remove your fish, add extra ammonia to keep the levels high intentionally. I’ve heard that will kill the snails within a week and not kill your biofilter. Remove the bodies to prevent unwanted decay in your tank. Or, once the tank is completely cycled, you could add a group of six small loaches (sidthimunki, see names below, are the right size for that tank) to take care of the snails, but only if your water parameters and tankmates are compatible. Go to www.loaches.com <http://www.loaches.com/> to research. I REALLY wanted to do this for my 38G, but my tankmates (Calvus) would be too aggressive for the Sids when full grown. <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/yasuhikotakia-sidthimunki> Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/yasuhikotakia-sidthimunki> Botia sidthimunki Dwarf Chain Loach, Dwarf Loach, Dwarf Botia, Chipmunk Botia, "Sid" _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails This is a little long, so bear with me.. ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the appearance of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific term :-)! )with first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still having high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, and have hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes three 25% PWC a day. The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to .25, then back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next day or so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the nasties? First, I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel cleanings have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any for about 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my fish? Can my fish infect another tank? 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my filter media? 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while and see? 5. Do nothing? I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish (remember, my tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move my fish to that tank, and break mine down. At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my aquarium system in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they resurface. With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can live with a snail here and there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from an infected tank. I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the snail while I treat my tank. Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies for the length. I just want to do the right thing this time! Alina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31389	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

It looks like that was copied from the site www.glasscages.com. As I recall, they are located in Tennessee, but travel widely to various shows. See the schedule on their site, and you can pick up the tank locally, if your timing is right. Otherwise, it would be shipped. They will also do custom tank building. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 5:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Hey Pam, Where can I get one of these? I'm having a hard time finding the right size tank here in Miami. Thx, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:14:50 To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Below is a chart that shows many tank sizes. A 30 long, I believe is 36 inches long. I have no idea what a 30 high or 30 breeder are. Pam here is a chart from all glass on tanks give an good estimate on what size you have Name Description Price Options ½ - 5 8 x 16 x 6 Tall ½ - 3 6 x 12 x 6 Tall ½ - 10 10 x 20 x 6 Tall 5½ Gal. 16 x 8 x 11 Tall ½ - 15 12½ x 24 x 6 Tall ½ - 29 12½ x 30 x 6 Tall 8 Tall 16 x 8 x 13 Tall 10 Tall 16 x 8 x 17 Tall 15 Long 24 x 12½ x 13 Tall 20 Tall 24 x 12½ x 17 Tall 20 Long 30 x 12½ x 13 Tall 15 Tall 20 x 10 x 17 Tall 29 Gal. 30 x 12½ x 17 Tall 27 Gal. 36 x 12½ x 13 Tall 38 Gal. 36 x 12½ x 17 Tall 33 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 13 Tall 45 Long 48 x 12½ x 17 Tall 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13 Tall 20 square 24 x 24 x 13 tall 50 Tall 36 x 18 x 17 Tall 50 Long 48 x 18 x 13 Tall 55 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 21 Tall 65 Gal. 48 x 18 x 17 Tall 40 Square 24 x 24 x 17 tall 75 Tall 48 x 18 x 21 Tall 45 Tall 36 x 12½ x 25 Tall 70 Tall 36 x 18 x 25 Tall 67 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 25 Tall 90 Long 48 x 18 x 25 Tall 60 Square 24 x 24 x 25 Tall 70 Wide 48 x 24 x 13 Tall 50 Square 30 x 31 x 13 Tall 75 Long 72 x 18 x 13 Tall 65 Wide 36 x 24 x 17 Tall 100 Long 72 x 18 x 17 Tall 90 Tall 36 x 18 x 31 Tall 95 - 4 Wide 48 x 24 x 17 Tall 80 Cube 24 x 24 x 31 Tall 135 Gal. 72 x 18 x 24 Tall 125 Tall 60 x 18 x 25 Tall 120 Gal. 48 x 24 x 25 Tall 100 Wide 72 x 24 x 13 Tall 115 Gal. 48 x 18 x 31 Tall 70 Square 30 x 30 x 17 Tall 95 -3 Wide 36 x 24 x 25 Tall 125 Wide 72 x 24 x 17 Tall 118 Gal. 36 x 24 x 31 Tall 100 Square 30 x 30 x 25 Tall 150 Long 60 x 24 x 25 Tall 150 Tall 48 x 24 x 31 Tall 120 Cube 30 x 30 x 31 Tall 180 Wide 72 x 24 x 25 Tall 150 - 4 Wide 48 x 30 x 25 Tall 140 Square 36 x 36 x 25 Tall 170 Gal. 48 x 24 x 35 Tall 180 Tall 72 x 18 x 31 Tall 130 Square 48 x 48 x 13 Tall 240 Long 96 x 24 x 25 Tall 180 - 8 96 x 18 x 25 Tall 175 Square 48 x 48 x 17 Tall 175 Square 36 x 36 x 31 Tall 240 - 6 Tall 72 x 24 x 31 Tall 190 - 4 Wide 48 x 36 x 25 Tall 190 Tall 60 x 24 x 31 Tall 195 - 5 Wide 60 x 30 x 25 Tall 240 - 5 Wide 60 x 36 x 25 Tall 240 Wide 72 x 30 x 25 Tall 240 - 4 Square 48 x 48 x 25 Tall 240 - 8 Tall 96 x 18 x 31 Tall 300 Tall 96 x 24 x 31 Tall 280 - 6 Wide 72 x 36 x 25 Tall 300 Wide 96 x 30 x 25 Tall 310 Square 48 x 48 x 31 Tall 340 Gal. 130 x 24 x 25 Tall 375 - 8 Wide 96 x 36 x 25 Tall 500 - 8 Wide

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31390	From: bill1433	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Hi Steve,   Did you use power heads on it?  What were they or could you recommend some?   bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 11:46 PM I've done half a tank with UGF's before, and they worked quite well. You simply cannot load up your tank as people are wont to do. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Hi Steve   You're obviously a man with a sense of humor.   Sorry to disappoint with the breeding---- ----least for right now.  As far as the "she who must be obeyed" you must have missed my first intro posting.. Please believe me when I tell you that the CEO paid her dues the first time around in this hobby.  i.e.?  I use to change so much water in the house I actually had a garden hose running through it!  No, I'm not kidding!   Just and ol' guy here trying to catch up on things.  The tank in question is one of those Internet for sale type of things and just trying to get more information about it.  I visited the site you mentioned (among others today) trying to gain more information on this size.   It be more to the point with you the seller said that it also came with an under gravel filter plate and I wanted to be sure it covered the tanks bottom properly.   Making only half the distance just ain't gonna get it, if you know what I mean.   good hearing from you,   bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:36 PM From the site www.glasscages. com, 33 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 13 Tall $64. That is a breeder tank. The tank you mention will hold near 30 gallons (a bit on the shy side, though), and would probably have been used as a breeder--depends on what one is breeding <g>. Now, if you are trying to come to some sort of agreement with "she who is to be obeyed", well, you might want to start with this: 500 - 8 Wide 96 x 48 x 25 Tall $2200, and slowly work your way down <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning,   I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here.   I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed------ ----sort of.  There was no heater.  The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel!  I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area.  It was a gift our son received.  He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them.  It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish.  Onward!   While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature.  It never got below 78 degrees.  I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation.  Apparently the article was correct.  I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely.  I currently have 3 Black Tetra's  and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well.   I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall.  This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location  in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size.  Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it?  The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information.  Could it be a custom-made tank?  From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct.  I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------- -----can you?   bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31391	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Steve, Awesome! Thanks a lot! Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 07:23:00 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. It looks like that was copied from the site www.glasscages.com. As I recall, they are located in Tennessee, but travel widely to various shows. See the schedule on their site, and you can pick up the tank locally, if your timing is right. Otherwise, it would be shipped. They will also do custom tank building. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 5:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Hey Pam, Where can I get one of these? I'm having a hard time finding the right size tank here in Miami. Thx, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:14:50 To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Below is a chart that shows many tank sizes. A 30 long, I believe is 36 inches long. I have no idea what a 30 high or 30 breeder are. Pam here is a chart from all glass on tanks give an good estimate on what size you have Name Description Price Options � - 5 8 x 16 x 6 Tall � - 3 6 x 12 x 6 Tall � - 10 10 x 20 x 6 Tall 5� Gal. 16 x 8 x 11 Tall � - 15 12� x 24 x 6 Tall � - 29 12� x 30 x 6 Tall 8 Tall 16 x 8 x 13 Tall 10 Tall 16 x 8 x 17 Tall 15 Long 24 x 12� x 13 Tall 20 Tall 24 x 12� x 17 Tall 20 Long 30 x 12� x 13 Tall 15 Tall 20 x 10 x 17 Tall 29 Gal. 30 x 12� x 17 Tall 27 Gal. 36 x 12� x 13 Tall 38 Gal. 36 x 12� x 17 Tall 33 Gal. 48 x 12� x 13 Tall 45 Long 48 x 12� x 17 Tall 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13 Tall 20 square 24 x 24 x 13 tall 50 Tall 36 x 18 x 17 Tall 50 Long 48 x 18 x 13 Tall 55 Gal. 48 x 12� x 21 Tall 65 Gal. 48 x 18 x 17 Tall 40 Square 24 x 24 x 17 tall 75 Tall 48 x 18 x 21 Tall 45 Tall 36 x 12� x 25 Tall 70 Tall 36 x 18 x 25 Tall 67 Gal. 48 x 12� x 25 Tall 90 Long 48 x 18 x 25 Tall 60 Square 24 x 24 x 25 Tall 70 Wide 48 x 24 x 13 Tall 50 Square 30 x 31 x 13 Tall 75 Long 72 x 18 x 13 Tall 65 Wide 36 x 24 x 17 Tall 100 Long 72 x 18 x 17 Tall 90 Tall 36 x 18 x 31 Tall 95 - 4 Wide 48 x 24 x 17 Tall 80 Cube 24 x 24 x 31 Tall 135 Gal. 72 x 18 x 24 Tall 125 Tall 60 x 18 x 25 Tall 120 Gal. 48 x 24 x 25 Tall 100 Wide 72 x 24 x 13 Tall 115 Gal. 48 x 18 x 31 Tall 70 Square 30 x 30 x 17 Tall 95 -3 Wide 36 x 24 x 25 Tall 125 Wide 72 x 24 x 17 Tall 118 Gal. 36 x 24 x 31 Tall 100 Square 30 x 30 x 25 Tall 150 Long 60 x 24 x 25 Tall 150 Tall 48 x 24 x 31 Tall 120 Cube 30 x 30 x 31 Tall 180 Wide 72 x 24 x 25 Tall 150 - 4 Wide 48 x 30 x 25 Tall 140 Square 36 x 36 x 25 Tall 170 Gal. 48 x 24 x 35 Tall 180 Tall 72 x 18 x 31 Tall 130 Square 48 x 48 x 13 Tall 240 Long 96 x 24 x 25 Tall 180 - 8 96 x 18 x 25 Tall 175 Square 48 x 48 x 17 Tall 175 Square 36 x 36 x 31 Tall 240 - 6 Tall 72 x 24 x 31 Tall 190 - 4 Wide 48 x 36 x 25 Tall 190 Tall 60 x 24 x 31 Tall 195 - 5 Wide 60 x 30 x 25 Tall 240 - 5 Wide 60 x 36 x 25 Tall 240 Wide 72 x 30 x 25 Tall 240 - 4 Square 48 x 48 x 25 Tall 240 - 8 Tall 96 x 18 x 31 Tall 300 Tall 96 x 24 x 31 Tall 280 - 6 Wide 72 x 36 x 25 Tall 300 Wide 96 x 30 x 25 Tall 310 Square 48 x 48 x 31 Tall 340 Gal. 130 x 24 x 25 Tall 375 - 8 Wide 96 x 36 x 25 Tall 500 - 8 Wide [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31392	From: Alina	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Lenny, Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to .50, they go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. holding steady at zero. I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try my hand at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The snails are not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with happiness, all green and healthy. Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would be OK? I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the tank too much. Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and I came across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small world, man. That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. Thanks for all your help. Alina > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a natural part > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of control > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do harm to the > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do have a big > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I guess the > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a beautifully planted > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the trapping, > etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch up with the > bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. Your problem was all the > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the nitrifying > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't trash > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic breeders > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance of food. > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs ready to > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using as a > snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you ever see them > breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that you're not cleaning the > tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the appearance > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my plants, > I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific term :-)! )with > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still having > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, and have > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes three 25% > PWC a day. > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to .25, then > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been holding > steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next day or > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the nasties? First, > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel cleanings > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any for about > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to a > smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my fish? Can > my fish infect another tank? > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my filter > media? > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while and > see? > > 5. Do nothing? > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set up > about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish (remember, my > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move my fish > to that tank, and break mine down. > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my aquarium system > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they resurface. > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a full-time > job....something will have to give. If those of you with more experience > know that this is likely to taper off, and I can live with a snail here and > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from an > infected tank. > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I keep > thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the snail while > I treat my tank. > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies for the > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > Alina > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > Tested on: 10/15/2008 9:58:13 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > Tested on: 10/15/2008 11:59:37 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31393	From: Alina	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Hi Donna, Thank you for the info. I would love a few loaches but I have an apple snail I want. I read they will go after "Gary" eventually...I wonder if any other fish might work? Thanks for the advice, it's been a crazy week...amazingly enough, the fish look darn good for what they've been through. I hope they hang in there and make it. I was thinking of dipping my plants this weekend, giving the gravel a good cleaning. Thanks for the help. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I don't see how the snails are causing the ammonia, but I might not have > read all the threads. I have a gazillion snails that also started as a cute > hitchhiker, so I know how annoying they can be. IMO answers to #1 and #2 is > yes. #3 and #5 is no. #4 keep the plants, but give them a dip to get rid > of the snails. > > > > For the cycle, option 1 is to add Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria to advance > the cycle. That saves the water changes. > > > > Or remove your fish, add extra ammonia to keep the levels high > intentionally. I've heard that will kill the snails within a week and not > kill your biofilter. Remove the bodies to prevent unwanted decay in your > tank. > > > > Or, once the tank is completely cycled, you could add a group of six small > loaches (sidthimunki, see names below, are the right size for that tank) to > take care of the snails, but only if your water parameters and tankmates are > compatible. Go to www.loaches.com <http://www.loaches.com/> to research. > I REALLY wanted to do this for my 38G, but my tankmates (Calvus) would be > too aggressive for the Sids when full grown. > > > > > <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/yasuhikotakia-sidthimunki> > Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki > <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/yasuhikotakia-sidthimunki> > > Botia sidthimunki > > Dwarf Chain Loach, Dwarf Loach, Dwarf Botia, Chipmunk Botia, "Sid" > > > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > appearance of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two > of my plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a > scientific term :-)! )with first a huge ammonia spike, and now, > almost a week later, I'm still having high nitrites. At one point > they got as high as 5, came down to 2, and have hovered around 1 for > a few days. And that has been with sometimes three 25% PWC a day. > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like > to .25, then back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and > have been holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, > afternoon, evening). > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > day or so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > nasties? First, I don't know enough about these snails to know if all > my gravel cleanings have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I > have not seen any for about 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to > a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my > fish? Can my fish infect another tank? > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > filter media? > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while > and see? > > 5. Do nothing? > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set > up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish > (remember, my tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move > my fish to that tank, and break mine down. > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my aquarium > system in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if > they resurface. With two kids under five, three x a day water changes > and a full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you > with more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can > live with a snail here and there, let me know that too. I'm just not > sure what to expect from an infected tank. > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I > keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the > snail while I treat my tank. > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies > for the length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > Alina > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

I got my 65G Acrylic tank from GlassCages.com and they shipped it for only $25.00 FEDEX Ground. It was a sight to see the FEDEX guy carrying this HUGE box up my front stairs in a bear hug. Then when he set it down in my home, I thought I had gotten ripped off with an empty box the size of a small refrigerator since it felt like it was full of air. I got on the bathroom scale with it and the entire box only weighed 25 pounds. This was my first acrylic tank so I couldn't believe how much lighter it was compared to even smaller sized glass tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. It looks like that was copied from the site www.glasscages.com. As I recall, they are located in Tennessee, but travel widely to various shows. See the schedule on their site, and you can pick up the tank locally, if your timing is right. Otherwise, it would be shipped. They will also do custom tank building. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 5:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Hey Pam, Where can I get one of these? I'm having a hard time finding the right size tank here in Miami. Thx, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:14:50 To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Below is a chart that shows many tank sizes. A 30 long, I believe is 36 inches long. I have no idea what a 30 high or 30 breeder are. Pam here is a chart from all glass on tanks give an good estimate on what size you have Name Description Price Options ½ - 5 8 x 16 x 6 Tall ½ - 3 6 x 12 x 6 Tall ½ - 10 10 x 20 x 6 Tall 5½ Gal. 16 x 8 x 11 Tall ½ - 15 12½ x 24 x 6 Tall ½ - 29 12½ x 30 x 6 Tall 8 Tall 16 x 8 x 13 Tall 10 Tall 16 x 8 x 17 Tall 15 Long 24 x 12½ x 13 Tall 20 Tall 24 x 12½ x 17 Tall 20 Long 30 x 12½ x 13 Tall 15 Tall 20 x 10 x 17 Tall 29 Gal. 30 x 12½ x 17 Tall 27 Gal. 36 x 12½ x 13 Tall 38 Gal. 36 x 12½ x 17 Tall 33 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 13 Tall 45 Long 48 x 12½ x 17 Tall 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13 Tall 20 square 24 x 24 x 13 tall 50 Tall 36 x 18 x 17 Tall 50 Long 48 x 18 x 13 Tall 55 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 21 Tall 65 Gal. 48 x 18 x 17 Tall 40 Square 24 x 24 x 17 tall 75 Tall 48 x 18 x 21 Tall 45 Tall 36 x 12½ x 25 Tall 70 Tall 36 x 18 x 25 Tall 67 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 25 Tall 90 Long 48 x 18 x 25 Tall 60 Square 24 x 24 x 25 Tall 70 Wide 48 x 24 x 13 Tall 50 Square 30 x 31 x 13 Tall 75 Long 72 x 18 x 13 Tall 65 Wide 36 x 24 x 17 Tall 100 Long 72 x 18 x 17 Tall 90 Tall 36 x 18 x 31 Tall 95 - 4 Wide 48 x 24 x 17 Tall 80 Cube 24 x 24 x 31 Tall 135 Gal. 72 x 18 x 24 Tall 125 Tall 60 x 18 x 25 Tall 120 Gal. 48 x 24 x 25 Tall 100 Wide 72 x 24 x 13 Tall 115 Gal. 48 x 18 x 31 Tall 70 Square 30 x 30 x 17 Tall 95 -3 Wide 36 x 24 x 25 Tall 125 Wide 72 x 24 x 17 Tall 118 Gal. 36 x 24 x 31 Tall 100 Square 30 x 30 x 25 Tall 150 Long 60 x 24 x 25 Tall 150 Tall 48 x 24 x 31 Tall 120 Cube 30 x 30 x 31 Tall 180 Wide 72 x 24 x 25 Tall 150 - 4 Wide 48 x 30 x 25 Tall 140 Square 36 x 36 x 25 Tall 170 Gal. 48 x 24 x 35 Tall 180 Tall 72 x 18 x 31 Tall 130 Square 48 x 48 x 13 Tall 240 Long 96 x 24 x 25 Tall 180 - 8 96 x 18 x 25 Tall 175 Square 48 x 48 x 17 Tall 175 Square 36 x 36 x 31 Tall 240 - 6 Tall 72 x 24 x 31 Tall 190 - 4 Wide 48 x 36 x 25 Tall 190 Tall 60 x 24 x 31 Tall 195 - 5 Wide 60 x 30 x 25 Tall 240 - 5 Wide 60 x 36 x 25 Tall 240 Wide 72 x 30 x 25 Tall 240 - 4 Square 48 x 48 x 25 Tall 240 - 8 Tall 96 x 18 x 31 Tall 300 Tall 96 x 24 x 31 Tall 280 - 6 Wide 72 x 36 x 25 Tall 300 Wide 96 x 30 x 25 Tall 310 Square 48 x 48 x 31 Tall 340 Gal. 130 x 24 x 25 Tall 375 - 8 Wide 96 x 36 x 25 Tall 500 - 8 Wide ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 6:25:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 7:30:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31395	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in Mid-City, near Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then isn't just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For others reading this, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the Westbank but I'm over there a lot for my business. What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up between PWC's also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites in check. Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about snacks they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper shell growth. If you have hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium Carbonate already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails Lenny, Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to .50, they go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. holding steady at zero. I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try my hand at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The snails are not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with happiness, all green and healthy. Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would be OK? I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the tank too much. Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and I came across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small world, man. That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. Thanks for all your help. Alina > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a natural part > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of control > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do harm to the > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do have a big > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I guess the > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a beautifully planted > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch up > with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. Your > problem was all the > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the nitrifying > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't trash > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic breeders > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance of food. > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs ready to > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using as a > snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you ever see > them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that you're not > cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the appearance > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific > term :-)! )with > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still having > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, and have > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes three 25% > PWC a day. > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to .25, then > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been holding > steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next day or > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the nasties? First, > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel cleanings > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any for about > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to a > smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my fish? Can > my fish infect another tank? > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my filter > media? > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while > and see? > > 5. Do nothing? > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set > up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish (remember, my > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move my fish > to that tank, and break mine down. > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my aquarium system > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they resurface. > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a full-time > job....something will have to give. If those of you with more > experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can live with > a snail here and > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from an > infected tank. > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I keep > thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the snail while > I treat my tank. > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies for the > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > Alina > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 7:06:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 7:43:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31396	From: cherrystix81	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: i have a list of fish.......

ok now that i am going through a fishless cycle i have been investigating what type of fish i want in my aquirium. now i know i said that i wanted a shark...i dont think that will be a possiblity. the red tail is mean the albino is mean and even the catfish shark is mean the only one that i would like is the bala and i dont have a big enough tank for it so.......i have found some fish that will suit the high pH and would be good in a community: Adolfo's Cory Corycloras Panda Kissing Gourami Rummy nose tetra Common pleco Threadfin Rainbow Boesemans Rainbow Neon Rainbow Guppy's (i really like these ones) Black ruby barb Harlequin Rasbora Pearl Gourami Platy (like these ones too) Cape Lopez Lyretail Cardinal Tetra (i like this one) i also have a quistion in regards to meaning of these to words: shoal (i think it means shallow water) live food (does this mean crickets and such) so anyway give me your thoughts on my picks and thnx again for the help>>>>>>>>>kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31397	From: Alina	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just behind PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high school, Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. (And here's a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. But I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day to return, that's for sure. In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding at around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I think Gary is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can do without. Thanks again Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in Mid-City, near > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then isn't > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For others > reading this, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the Westbank but > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up between PWC's > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria are > working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites in check. > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and mystery > snails like as well as postings from other people about snacks they feed > their snails. The calcium is needed for proper shell growth. If you have > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium Carbonate > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > Lenny, > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up in > between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to .50, they > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > holding steady at zero. > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try my hand > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The snails are > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > happiness, all green and healthy. > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have been > present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would be OK? > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the tank > too much. > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and I came > across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small world, man. > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > Thanks for all your help. > > Alina > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > natural part > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > control > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do harm > to the > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > have a big > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > guess the > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a beautifully > planted > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch up > > with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. Your > > problem was > all the > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > nitrifying > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > trash > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > breeders > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance of > food. > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > ready to > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using as a > > snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you ever see > > them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that you're not > > cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > appearance > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific > > term > :-)! )with > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still > having > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > and have > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > three 25% > > PWC a day. > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > .25, then > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been holding > > steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > day or > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > nasties? First, > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > cleanings > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > for about > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to a > > smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my > fish? Can > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > filter > > media? > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while > > and see? > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set > > up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish > (remember, my > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move > my fish > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > aquarium system > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > resurface. > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a full-time > > job....something will have to give. If those of you with more > > experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can live with > > a snail > here and > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from an > > infected tank. > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I keep > > thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the > snail while > > I treat my tank. > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies > for the > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > Tested on: 10/16/2008 7:06:46 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > Tested on: 10/16/2008 7:43:02 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: i have a list of fish.......

I don't have time to go through your list line-by-line yet but off the cuff, Common Pleco's get BIG also... 18"+ so if your tank isn't big enough for a Bala Shark, it's not big enough for a Common Pleco either. There are some dwarf species of plecos like the Clown, Bristle Nosed and Rubber Lipped that are relatively common nowadays. What size tank do you have again? Shoal, when referring to a group of fish is at least three or more and preferably five or more of the same species. It's basically the same as a school except shoaling fish just kind of hang around together and are usually bottom dwellers (common shoaling fish are corys, otos, loaches, etc.) They will also swim around together but not like schooling fish might do where they swim as a group all the time. If you've been reading the Mongabay profiles on these fish, they will have the feeding section with more details on which live foods the fish may prefer. Live foods can be everything from brine shrimp and small insects to snails and on up to feeder fish and more (guppies and goldfish are common feeder fish but find a local breeder for healthy feeder fish as the ones available at many pet stores may not be so healthy). Remember that guppies and many other livebearers are prolific breeders so if you do not want to expand your tank collection any time soon, it's best to go with all males or all females to limit the breeding. The reason I say limit, is that you could end up with females that are already impregnated and they can give several births of dozens of fry even without a male in the tank. Besides, the males of most species are the prettier of the species... except for us dang humans. I don't know how us men got ripped off in the better looking aspect. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cherrystix81 Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] i have a list of fish....... ok now that i am going through a fishless cycle i have been investigating what type of fish i want in my aquirium. now i know i said that i wanted a shark...i dont think that will be a possiblity. the red tail is mean the albino is mean and even the catfish shark is mean the only one that i would like is the bala and i dont have a big enough tank for it so.......i have found some fish that will suit the high pH and would be good in a community: Adolfo's Corydoras Corydoras Panda Kissing Gourami Rummy nose tetra Common pleco Threadfin Rainbow Boesemans Rainbow Neon Rainbow Guppy's (i really like these ones) Black ruby barb Harlequin Rasbora Pearl Gourami Platy (like these ones too) Cape Lopez Lyretail Cardinal Tetra (i like this one) i also have a quistion in regards to meaning of these to words: shoal (i think it means shallow water) live food (does this mean crickets and such) so anyway give me your thoughts on my picks and thnx again for the help>>>>>>>>>kate _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 8:19:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31399	From: greychildren	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

I have the same issue with snails...i even found a ram horn snail in my tank . I guess the came with the plants i got several months ago. there every were,, thats why i purchase some clown loaches. but the snails population are still not been control. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in Mid- City, near > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then isn't > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For others > reading this, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the Westbank but > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up between PWC's > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria are > working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites in check. > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and mystery > snails like as well as postings from other people about snacks they feed > their snails. The calcium is needed for proper shell growth. If you have > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium Carbonate > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > Lenny, > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up in > between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to .50, they > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > holding steady at zero. > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try my hand > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The snails are > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > happiness, all green and healthy. > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have been > present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would be OK? > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the tank > too much. > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and I came > across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small world, man. > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > Thanks for all your help. > > Alina > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > natural part > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > control > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do harm > to the > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > have a big > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > guess the > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a beautifully > planted > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch up > > with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. Your > > problem was > all the > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > nitrifying > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > trash > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > breeders > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance of > food. > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > ready to > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using as a > > snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you ever see > > them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that you're not > > cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > appearance > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific > > term > :-)! )with > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still > having > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > and have > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > three 25% > > PWC a day. > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > .25, then > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been holding > > steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > day or > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > nasties? First, > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > cleanings > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > for about > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to a > > smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my > fish? Can > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > filter > > media? > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while > > and see? > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set > > up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish > (remember, my > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move > my fish > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > aquarium system > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > resurface. > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a full- time > > job....something will have to give. If those of you with more > > experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can live with > > a snail > here and > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from an > > infected tank. > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I keep > > thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the > snail while > > I treat my tank. > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies > for the > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > Tested on: 10/16/2008 7:06:46 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > Tested on: 10/16/2008 7:43:02 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31400	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: i have a list of fish.......

Hello, there. Will reply with a more detailed listing. But some of the fish you have on your list needs friends to feel secure and happy (schooling or shoal behavior) those include the tetras, rainbows, rasboras, and barbs. Most gourmais grow to a big size, like the kissing need a large tanks. Some of the fish you listed like soft acidic waters others like a harder water. I suggest you look at the guppies and platies, and some of the other livebearers for a “safe” beginner tanks .and add the corys also. Barbs can be fin nippers. My personal fav’s are guppies, platies, mollies, endler’s, leeri gouramis, and the corys. A tank of rainbows is also a fun and pretty tank. Some people do a tank to represent a specific geographic are, like a South American tank, Asian tank, Brackish tank, etc . From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cherrystix81 Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] i have a list of fish....... ok now that i am going through a fishless cycle i have been investigating what type of fish i want in my aquirium. now i know i said that i wanted a shark...i dont think that will be a possiblity. the red tail is mean the albino is mean and even the catfish shark is mean the only one that i would like is the bala and i dont have a big enough tank for it so.......i have found some fish that will suit the high pH and would be good in a community: Adolfo's Cory Corycloras Panda Kissing Gourami Rummy nose tetra Common pleco Threadfin Rainbow Boesemans Rainbow Neon Rainbow Guppy's (i really like these ones) Black ruby barb Harlequin Rasbora Pearl Gourami Platy (like these ones too) Cape Lopez Lyretail Cardinal Tetra (i like this one) i also have a quistion in regards to meaning of these to words: shoal (i think it means shallow water) live food (does this mean crickets and such) so anyway give me your thoughts on my picks and thnx again for the help>>>>>>>>>kate Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long before it was an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called Sacred Heart and I only went there for first grade before migrating out to the burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into senior citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's the last news I really heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't really paid attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened after Katrina. Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you had to spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars around Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. ;-) Which uptown bar was your favorite? OK... back to the fish. LOL It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant PWC's. That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies as well. I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer before you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only have to do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the nitrates and other water quality issues in check. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just behind PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high school, Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. (And here's a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. But I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day to return, that's for sure. In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding at around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I think Gary is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can do without. Thanks again Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in Mid-City, near > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then isn't > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For others > reading this, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the Westbank but > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up between PWC's > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria > are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites in check. > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about snacks > they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper shell growth. > If you have > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium Carbonate > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > Lenny, > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up > in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to .50, they > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > holding steady at zero. > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try my hand > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The snails are > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > happiness, all green and healthy. > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have > been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would be OK? > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the tank > too much. > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and I came > across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small world, man. > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > Thanks for all your help. > > Alina > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > natural part > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > control > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do harm > to the > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > have a big > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > guess the > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a beautifully > planted > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch > > up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. Your > > problem was > all the > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > nitrifying > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > trash > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > breeders > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance of > food. > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > ready to > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using as > > a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you ever see > > them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that you're not > > cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > appearance > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific > > term > :-)! )with > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still > having > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > and have > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > three 25% > > PWC a day. > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > .25, then > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been > > holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > day or > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > nasties? First, > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > cleanings > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > for about > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to > > a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my > fish? Can > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > filter > > media? > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while > > and see? > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we > > set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish > (remember, my > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move > my fish > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > aquarium system > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > resurface. > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a > > full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with > > more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can > > live with a snail > here and > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from > > an infected tank. > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I > > keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the > snail while > > I treat my tank. > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies > for the > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > 7:06:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > 7:43:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 8:23:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 8:45:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31402	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Remember that clown loaches get really BIG... 12"+ and up to 16". They should be kept in shoals of at least three or more and preferably five or more so they really need to be in BIG tanks, 100G+. If you do get a clown loach, make sure your LFS (local fish store) will agree to take it/them back after they've done their job on the snails so you don't end up causing them their own problems. There are smaller species of loaches that would be more suitable for smaller tanks with snail problems but they still need to be in shoals so the bioload is always a consideration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails I have the same issue with snails...i even found a ram horn snail in my tank . I guess the came with the plants i got several months ago. there every were,, thats why i purchase some clown loaches. but the snails population are still not been control. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in Mid- City, near > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then isn't > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For others > reading this, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the Westbank but > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up between PWC's > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria are > working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites in check. > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and mystery > snails like as well as postings from other people about snacks they feed > their snails. The calcium is needed for proper shell growth. If you have > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium Carbonate > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > Lenny, > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up in > between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to .50, they > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > holding steady at zero. > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try my hand > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The snails are > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > happiness, all green and healthy. > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have been > present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would be OK? > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the tank > too much. > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and I came > across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small world, man. > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > Thanks for all your help. > > Alina > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > natural part > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > control > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do harm > to the > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > have a big > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > guess the > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a beautifully > planted > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch up > > with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. Your > > problem was > all the > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > nitrifying > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > trash > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > breeders > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance of > food. > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > ready to > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using as a > > snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you ever see > > them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that you're not > > cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > appearance > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific > > term > :-)! )with > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still > having > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > and have > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > three 25% > > PWC a day. > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > .25, then > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been holding > > steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > day or > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > nasties? First, > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > cleanings > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > for about > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to a > > smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my > fish? Can > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > filter > > media? > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while > > and see? > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set > > up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish > (remember, my > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move > my fish > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > aquarium system > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > resurface. > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a full- time > > job....something will have to give. If those of you with more > > experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can live with > > a snail > here and > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from an > > infected tank. > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I keep > > thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the > snail while > > I treat my tank. > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies > for the > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > 7:06:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > 7:43:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 8:27:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 8:51:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31403	From: greychildren	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: i have a list of fish.......

yea Lenny nature does not like us...like Lenny stated live bearer will reproduce like roaches trust me i started with 4 six months ago now i have 10. minus the ones who got eaten. and Tetras are not first timers fish choice sense there sensitive to water changes and yes i went throw 17 before i learned, Neon,black neon and head and tail. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't have time to go through your list line-by-line yet but off the cuff, > Common Pleco's get BIG also... 18"+ so if your tank isn't big enough for a > Bala Shark, it's not big enough for a Common Pleco either. There are some > dwarf species of plecos like the Clown, Bristle Nosed and Rubber Lipped that > are relatively common nowadays. What size tank do you have again? > > Shoal, when referring to a group of fish is at least three or more and > preferably five or more of the same species. It's basically the same as a > school except shoaling fish just kind of hang around together and are > usually bottom dwellers (common shoaling fish are corys, otos, loaches, > etc.) They will also swim around together but not like schooling fish might > do where they swim as a group all the time. > > If you've been reading the Mongabay profiles on these fish, they will have > the feeding section with more details on which live foods the fish may > prefer. Live foods can be everything from brine shrimp and small insects to > snails and on up to feeder fish and more (guppies and goldfish are common > feeder fish but find a local breeder for healthy feeder fish as the ones > available at many pet stores may not be so healthy). > > Remember that guppies and many other livebearers are prolific breeders so if > you do not want to expand your tank collection any time soon, it's best to > go with all males or all females to limit the breeding. The reason I say > limit, is that you could end up with females that are already impregnated > and they can give several births of dozens of fry even without a male in the > tank. Besides, the males of most species are the prettier of the species... > except for us dang humans. I don't know how us men got ripped off in the > better looking aspect. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cherrystix81 > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] i have a list of fish....... > > ok now that i am going through a fishless cycle i have been investigating > what type of fish i want in my aquirium. now i know i said that i wanted a > shark...i dont think that will be a possiblity. > the red tail is mean the albino is mean and even the catfish shark is mean > the only one that i would like is the bala and i dont have a big enough tank > for it so.......i have found some fish that will suit the high pH and would > be good in a community: > Adolfo's Corydoras > Corydoras Panda > Kissing Gourami > Rummy nose tetra > Common pleco > Threadfin Rainbow > Boesemans Rainbow > Neon Rainbow > Guppy's (i really like these ones) > Black ruby barb > Harlequin Rasbora > Pearl Gourami > Platy (like these ones too) > Cape Lopez Lyretail > Cardinal Tetra (i like this one) > i also have a quistion in regards to meaning of these to words: > shoal (i think it means shallow water) > live food (does this mean crickets and such) so anyway give me your thoughts > on my picks and thnx again for the > help>>>>>>>>>kate > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > Tested on: 10/16/2008 8:19:22 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31404	From: Saps Gal	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: i have a list of fish.......

Yes I agree with you on tetras, not only are they sensitive, but they get into tiny spaces (behind filters) and get stuck, if you dont catch them in time, then you lose them. I have rosy barbs in with my guppies and they are fine, yes they are fin nippers but having them in a group of 6 seems to keep them calm in my experience. «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: greychildren To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: i have a list of fish....... yea Lenny nature does not like us...like Lenny stated live bearer will reproduce like roaches trust me i started with 4 six months ago now i have 10. minus the ones who got eaten. and Tetras are not first timers fish choice sense there sensitive to water changes and yes i went throw 17 before i learned, Neon,black neon and head and tail. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't have time to go through your list line-by-line yet but off the cuff, > Common Pleco's get BIG also... 18"+ so if your tank isn't big enough for a > Bala Shark, it's not big enough for a Common Pleco either. There are some > dwarf species of plecos like the Clown, Bristle Nosed and Rubber Lipped that > are relatively common nowadays. What size tank do you have again? > > Shoal, when referring to a group of fish is at least three or more and > preferably five or more of the same species. It's basically the same as a > school except shoaling fish just kind of hang around together and are > usually bottom dwellers (common shoaling fish are corys, otos, loaches, > etc.) They will also swim around together but not like schooling fish might > do where they swim as a group all the time. > > If you've been reading the Mongabay profiles on these fish, they will have > the feeding section with more details on which live foods the fish may > prefer. Live foods can be everything from brine shrimp and small insects to > snails and on up to feeder fish and more (guppies and goldfish are common > feeder fish but find a local breeder for healthy feeder fish as the ones > available at many pet stores may not be so healthy). > > Remember that guppies and many other livebearers are prolific breeders so if > you do not want to expand your tank collection any time soon, it's best to > go with all males or all females to limit the breeding. The reason I say > limit, is that you could end up with females that are already impregnated > and they can give several births of dozens of fry even without a male in the > tank. Besides, the males of most species are the prettier of the species... > except for us dang humans. I don't know how us men got ripped off in the > better looking aspect. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cherrystix81 > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] i have a list of fish....... > > ok now that i am going through a fishless cycle i have been investigating > what type of fish i want in my aquirium. now i know i said that i wanted a > shark...i dont think that will be a possiblity. > the red tail is mean the albino is mean and even the catfish shark is mean > the only one that i would like is the bala and i dont have a big enough tank > for it so.......i have found some fish that will suit the high pH and would > be good in a community: > Adolfo's Corydoras > Corydoras Panda > Kissing Gourami > Rummy nose tetra > Common pleco > Threadfin Rainbow > Boesemans Rainbow > Neon Rainbow > Guppy's (i really like these ones) > Black ruby barb > Harlequin Rasbora > Pearl Gourami > Platy (like these ones too) > Cape Lopez Lyretail > Cardinal Tetra (i like this one) > i also have a quistion in regards to meaning of these to words: > shoal (i think it means shallow water) > live food (does this mean crickets and such) so anyway give me your thoughts > on my picks and thnx again for the > help>>>>>>>>>kate > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > Tested on: 10/16/2008 8:19:22 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31405	From: Alina	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

I used to march in the Metairie Mardi Gras parades with one of those geeky dance teams (TMI!) As for the bars -- Ms. Maes, TJ Quills were favorites, and Fat Harrys, Cooter Brown's, the Maple Leaf for awesome Cajun music. Too many nights in those places to count. And then I remember Nick's Bar...it had all those weird mixed drinks. I loved that place. I did know that Seton had become a senior living facility. Bummer. As for the tank, reports are that nitrites are down to .25. Amen already! Checking nitrates... Thanks so much. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long before it was > an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called Sacred > Heart and I only went there for first grade before migrating out to the > burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into senior > citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's the last news I > really heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't really paid > attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened after > Katrina. > > Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult > playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you had to > spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars around > Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. ;-) > Which uptown bar was your favorite? > > OK... back to the fish. LOL > > It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant PWC's. > That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies as well. > I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer before > you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only have to > do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the > nitrates and other water quality issues in check. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just behind > PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high school, > Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. (And here's > a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato for > about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) > > It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. But I > believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day to > return, that's for sure. > > In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding at > around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I think Gary > is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. > Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can do > without. > > Thanks again > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in > Mid-City, near > > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then > isn't > > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For > others > > reading this, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the > Westbank but > > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up > between PWC's > > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria > > are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites in > check. > > > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about snacks > > they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper shell growth. > > If > you have > > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium > Carbonate > > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > Lenny, > > > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up > > in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to > .50, they > > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > > holding steady at zero. > > > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try > my hand > > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The > snails are > > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > > happiness, all green and healthy. > > > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have > > been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would > be OK? > > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the > tank > > too much. > > > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and > I came > > across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small > world, man. > > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > Alina > > > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > > natural part > > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > > control > > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do harm > > to the > > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > > have a big > > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > > guess the > > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a beautifully > > planted > > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch > > > up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. Your > > > problem was > > all the > > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > > trash > > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > > breeders > > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance of > > food. > > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > > ready to > > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using as > > > a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you ever see > > > them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that you're not > > > cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > > appearance > > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific > > > term > > :-)! )with > > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still > > having > > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > > and have > > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > > three 25% > > > PWC a day. > > > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > > .25, then > > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been > > > holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, > evening). > > > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > > day or > > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > > nasties? First, > > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > > cleanings > > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > > for about > > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to > > > a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my > > fish? Can > > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > > filter > > > media? > > > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while > > > and see? > > > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we > > > set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish > > (remember, my > > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move > > my fish > > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > > aquarium system > > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > > resurface. > > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a > > > full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with > > > more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can > > > live with a snail > > here and > > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from > > > an infected tank. > > > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I > > > keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the > > snail while > > > I treat my tank. > > > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies > > for the > > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > 7:06:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > 7:43:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > Tested on: 10/16/2008 8:23:28 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > Tested on: 10/16/2008 8:45:41 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31407	From: Chris	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

I do believe that the longest daylight is somewhere from 14 to 16 hours durring the summer months. It doesn't seem like it would matter too much to have the hood on a 12 on 12 off schedule because of day light from the bay window and as soon as the living room starts to get dim, we turn the lights on. Does that make a difference?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31408	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were full of babes! LOL I think I've been kicked out of most of the bars you listed at least once, although I don't recognize Ms. Maes (it could have been on the end of the route... LOL), and yes, I spent many a nights at Nick's Original Big Train Bar on Tulane Ave. I think it's dead now due to Katrina. That area was already struggling for business due to the neighborhood and I think Katrina was the last straw. Here's a nice little blog about Nick's, including references to all the crackheads in the neighborhood. LOL http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html I even won one of their Halloween costume contests. It took me a while to whittle down that bar tab. Did they have their Velcro wall when you were hanging out there? Heck, if you were hanging out there in the 80's and early 90's, I probably hit on you at least once... and since you were a dance team babe, likely more than once! LOL Most of the uptown bars are still around since uptown didn't get severely flooded like much of the rest of the city. Oh yeah... good to see the tank is coming along. This thread is starting to have a whole new meaning to getting tanked! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails I used to march in the Metairie Mardi Gras parades with one of those geeky dance teams (TMI!) As for the bars -- Ms. Maes, TJ Quills were favorites, and Fat Harrys, Cooter Brown's, the Maple Leaf for awesome Cajun music. Too many nights in those places to count. And then I remember Nick's Bar...it had all those weird mixed drinks. I loved that place. I did know that Seton had become a senior living facility. Bummer. As for the tank, reports are that nitrites are down to .25. Amen already! Checking nitrates... Thanks so much. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long before it was > an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called Sacred > Heart and I only went there for first grade before migrating out to > the burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into > senior citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's the > last news I > really heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't really paid > attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened after > Katrina. > > Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult > playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you had to > spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars around > Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. > ;-) Which uptown bar was your favorite? > > OK... back to the fish. LOL > > It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant PWC's. > That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies as well. > I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer before > you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only have to > do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the > nitrates and other water quality issues in check. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just behind > PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high school, > Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. (And here's > a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato > for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) > > It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. But > I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day > to return, that's for sure. > > In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding at > around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I think Gary > is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. > Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can do > without. > > Thanks again > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in > Mid-City, near > > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then > isn't > > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For > others > > reading this, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the > Westbank but > > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up > between PWC's > > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria > > are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites > > in > check. > > > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about > > snacks they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper shell growth. > > If > you have > > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium > Carbonate > > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > Lenny, > > > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up > > in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to > .50, they > > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > > holding steady at zero. > > > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try > my hand > > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The > snails are > > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > > happiness, all green and healthy. > > > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have > > been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would > be OK? > > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the > tank > > too much. > > > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and > I came > > across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small > world, man. > > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > Alina > > > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > > natural part > > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > > control > > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do > > > harm > > to the > > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > > have a big > > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > > guess the > > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a > > > beautifully > > planted > > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch > > > up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. > > > Your problem was > > all the > > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > > trash > > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > > breeders > > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance > > > of > > food. > > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > > ready to > > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using > > > as a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you > > > ever see them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that > > > you're not cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > > appearance > > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a > > > scientific term > > :-)! )with > > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm > > > still > > having > > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > > and have > > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > > three 25% > > > PWC a day. > > > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > > .25, then > > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been > > > holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, > evening). > > > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > > day or > > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > > nasties? First, > > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > > cleanings > > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > > for about > > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media > > > to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after > > > removing my > > fish? Can > > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > > filter > > > media? > > > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a > > > while and see? > > > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we > > > set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small > > > fish > > (remember, my > > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could > > > move > > my fish > > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > > aquarium system > > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > > resurface. > > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a > > > full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with > > > more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can > > > live with a snail > > here and > > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from > > > an infected tank. > > > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I > > > keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary > > > the > > snail while > > > I treat my tank. > > > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my > > > apologies > > for the > > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > 7:06:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > 7:43:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > 8:23:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > 8:45:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 11:25:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 11:45:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31409	From: Robb	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Restarting a tank

Hello all, I currently have been looking at my tank and seeing that it's honestly getting into sad shape. Not due to neglect, but due to not being as knowledgeable as I should have been when I originally started. I've come to a point or realization where I think I'd like to 'restart' on my tank, because I need to start fresh and do things right. I have a bed of snails on the 'floor' of my 29 Gallon tank, I'm having Algae build up issues, and my fish don't seem too happy. I know right now that my pH is a bit high (roughly 7.5 I think), but other than that I don't know much chemically about the tank as I'm still quite the novice. So my question(s) are: If I get completely rid of everything and start fresh will the snails go away? What fish can truly happily enjoy the pH of my water? Other than that I'll happily take other suggestions.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31410	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Still no ammonia spike from the molly

So my water perameters are all still good in the 10 gallon. If the missing molly was dead in there how long until an ammonia spike shows up? I've searched again and cannot find anything so I'm hoping maybe she just jumped out. I dont want to be upsetting the prego molly by digging anymore in the tank, but then again I dont want the ammonia levels to get outta wack either. Sarah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31411	From: Alina	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Of course they had the velcro wall! Too bad. Nick's was great, and one of the best local hangouts. And yes, it was late 80s, early 80s (the bad hair years) NOW I remember you! Ok, the dance teams got lots of whoops and hollers but let's face it, ya'll were drunk! They still had the drive-thru daiquiri joints back then. I still shake my head at that bright move. LOL So on to the real tank. As you know, I had just a few fish in there anyway 5 tetras (bless their hardy little hearts) one molly (my widower), one platy (his mistress) and Gary the Snail. When do you think it would be OK to add more fish? No, I'm not running out tonight to load up on fish, just hoping in the next week or so to bump up the bioload if all is right with the world. Thanks Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys > reading this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams > were full of babes! LOL > > I think I've been kicked out of most of the bars you listed at least once, > although I don't recognize Ms. Maes (it could have been on the end of the > route... LOL), and yes, I spent many a nights at Nick's Original Big Train > Bar on Tulane Ave. I think it's dead now due to Katrina. That area was > already struggling for business due to the neighborhood and I think Katrina > was the last straw. Here's a nice little blog about Nick's, including > references to all the crackheads in the neighborhood. LOL > http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html I even > won one of their Halloween costume contests. It took me a while to whittle > down that bar tab. Did they have their Velcro wall when you were hanging > out there? Heck, if you were hanging out there in the 80's and early 90's, > I probably hit on you at least once... and since you were a dance team babe, > likely more than once! LOL > > Most of the uptown bars are still around since uptown didn't get severely > flooded like much of the rest of the city. > > Oh yeah... good to see the tank is coming along. This thread is starting to > have a whole new meaning to getting tanked! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > I used to march in the Metairie Mardi Gras parades with one of those geeky > dance teams (TMI!) As for the bars -- Ms. Maes, TJ Quills were favorites, > and Fat Harrys, Cooter Brown's, the Maple Leaf for awesome Cajun music. Too > many nights in those places to count. And then I remember Nick's Bar...it > had all those weird mixed drinks. I loved that place. > > I did know that Seton had become a senior living facility. Bummer. > > As for the tank, reports are that nitrites are down to .25. Amen already! > Checking nitrates... > > Thanks so much. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long > before it was > > an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called > Sacred > > Heart and I only went there for first grade before migrating out to > > the burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into > > senior citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's the > > last > news I > > really heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't > really paid > > attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened after > > Katrina. > > > > Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult > > playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you > had to > > spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars > around > > Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. > > ;-) Which uptown bar was your favorite? > > > > OK... back to the fish. LOL > > > > It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant > PWC's. > > That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies > as well. > > I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer > before > > you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only > have to > > do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the > > nitrates and other water quality issues in check. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just > behind > > PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high school, > > Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. > (And here's > > a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato > > for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) > > > > It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. But > > I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day > > to return, that's for sure. > > > > In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding at > > around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I > think Gary > > is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. > > Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can do > > without. > > > > Thanks again > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in > > Mid-City, near > > > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then > > isn't > > > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For > > others > > > reading this, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > > > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the > > Westbank but > > > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > > > > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up > > between PWC's > > > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria > > > are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites > > > in > > check. > > > > > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > > > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > > > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about > > > snacks they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper shell > growth. > > > If > > you have > > > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium > > Carbonate > > > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up > > > in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to > > .50, they > > > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > > > holding steady at zero. > > > > > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try > > my hand > > > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The > > snails are > > > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > > > happiness, all green and healthy. > > > > > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > > > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have > > > been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > > > > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would > > be OK? > > > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the > > tank > > > too much. > > > > > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and > > I came > > > across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small > > world, man. > > > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > > > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > > > natural part > > > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > > > control > > > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do > > > > harm > > > to the > > > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > > > have a big > > > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > > > guess the > > > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a > > > > beautifully > > > planted > > > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch > > > > up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. > > > > Your problem was > > > all the > > > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > > > trash > > > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > > > breeders > > > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance > > > > of > > > food. > > > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > > > ready to > > > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using > > > > as a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you > > > > ever see them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that > > > > you're not cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > > > above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > > > appearance > > > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a > > > > scientific term > > > :-)! )with > > > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm > > > > still > > > having > > > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > > > and have > > > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > > > three 25% > > > > PWC a day. > > > > > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > > > .25, then > > > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been > > > > holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, > > evening). > > > > > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > > > day or > > > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > > > nasties? First, > > > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > > > cleanings > > > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > > > for about > > > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > > > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media > > > > to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after > > > > removing my > > > fish? Can > > > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > > > filter > > > > media? > > > > > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a > > > > while and see? > > > > > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we > > > > set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small > > > > fish > > > (remember, my > > > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could > > > > move > > > my fish > > > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > > > aquarium system > > > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > > > resurface. > > > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a > > > > full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with > > > > more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can > > > > live with a snail > > > here and > > > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from > > > > an infected tank. > > > > > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I > > > > keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary > > > > the > > > snail while > > > > I treat my tank. > > > > > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my > > > > apologies > > > for the > > > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com > > > <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com > > > <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > > 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31412	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Pictures? Not you Lenny ;) -Mike OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were full of babes! LOL -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 9:45 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were full of babes! LOL I think I've been kicked out of most of the bars you listed at least once, although I don't recognize Ms. Maes (it could have been on the end of the route... LOL), and yes, I spent many a nights at Nick's Original Big Train Bar on Tulane Ave. I think it's dead now due to Katrina. That area was already struggling for business due to the neighborhood and I think Katrina was the last straw. Here's a nice little blog about Nick's, including references to all the crackheads in the neighborhood. LOL http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html I even won one of their Halloween costume contests. It took me a while to whittle down that bar tab. Did they have their Velcro wall when you were hanging out there? Heck, if you were hanging out there in the 80's and early 90's, I probably hit on you at least once... and since you were a dance team babe, likely more than once! L OL Most of the uptown bars are still around since uptown didn't get severely flooded like much of the rest of the city. Oh yeah... good to see the tank is coming along. This thread is starting to have a whole new meaning to getting tanked! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails I used to march in the Metairie Mardi Gras parades with one of those geeky dance teams (TMI!) As for the bars -- Ms. Maes, TJ Quills were favorites, and Fat Harrys, Cooter Brown's, the Maple Leaf for awesome Cajun music. Too many nights in those places to count. And then I remember Nick's Bar...it had all those weird mixed drinks. I loved that place. I did know that Seton had become a senior living facility. Bummer. As for the tank, reports are that nitrites are down to .25. Amen already! Checking nitrates... Thanks so much. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long before it was > an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called Sacred > Heart and I only went there for first grade bef ore migrating out to > the burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into > senior citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's the > last news I > really heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't really paid > attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened after > Katrina. > > Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult > playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you had to > spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars around > Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. > ;-) Which uptown bar was your favorite? > > OK... back to the fish. LOL > > It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant PWC's. > That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies as well. > I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer before > you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only have to > do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the > nitrates and other water quality issues in check. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoog roups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just behind > PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high school, > Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. (And here's > a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato > for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) > > It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. But > I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day > to return, that's for sure. > > In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding at > around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I think Gary > is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. > Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can do > without. > > Thanks again > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in > Mid-City, near > > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then > isn't > > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For > others > > reading t his, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the > Westbank but > > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up > between PWC's > > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria > > are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites > > in > check. > > > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about > > snacks they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper shell growth. > > If > you have > > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium > Carbonate > > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:Aquati cLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > Lenny, > > > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up > > in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to > .50, they > > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > > holding steady at zero. > > > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try > my hand > > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The > snails are > > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > > happiness, all green and healthy. > > > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have > > been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would > be OK? > > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the > tank > > too much. > > > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and > I came > > across20a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small > world, man. > > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > Alina > > > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > > natural part > > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > > control > > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do > > > harm > > to the > > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > > have a big > > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > > guess the > > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a > > > beautifully > > planted > > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch > > > up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. > > > Your problem was > > all the > > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > > trash > > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > > breeders > > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance > > > of > > food. > > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > > ready to > > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using > > > as a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you > > > ever see them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that > > > you're not cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40 yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > > appearance > > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a > > > scientific term > > :-)! )with > > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm > > > still > > having > > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > > and have > > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > > three 25% > > > PWC a day. > > > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > > .25, then > > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been > > > holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, > evening). > > > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > > day or > > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > > nasties? First, > > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > > cleanings > > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > > for about > > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > > 2. Can I i nfect another tank by say, transferring my filter media > > > to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after > > > removing my > > fish? Can > > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > > filter > > > media? > > > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a > > > while and see? > > > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we > > > set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small > > > fish > > (remember, my > > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could > > > move > > my fish > > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > > aquarium system > > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > > resurface. > > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a > > > full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with > > > more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can > > > live with a snail > > here and > > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from > > > an infected=2 0tank. > > > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I > > > keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary > > > the > > snail while > > > I treat my tank. > > > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my > > > apologies > > for the > > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > 7:06:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > 7:43:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL=2 0Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > 8:23:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > 8:45:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 11:25:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 11:45:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31413	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank

To be perfectly honest getting rid of the fish will not get rid of the snails. I too have had the snail population overload and I've found 2 remedies to the problem. If you plan on re-doing everything then replacing the gravel will completely wipe them out (well it should.) Or you can trap them like I did. Get some algae wafers and toss a couple in the tank overnight, and when you wake in the morning scoop them out with your fish net. That worked for me.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31414	From: Chris Owens	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen

One of my 4" Koi's (now living in a 50 gallon tank) managed to wedge himself into a tower decoration and couldn't manage to swim back out so I had to go in after him (stupid, stupid fish). He is eating/swimming fine but is missing a few scales by his dorsal fin, I added Stress Coat, checked the water levels (which were all normal), anything else I should do??? Chris and the Stupid Koi in VA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31415	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank

I have found the only way that I can really get rid of the problem snails is to trap as many of them as possible by floating a lettuce leaf on the surface over night and then harvesting them off first thing in the morning. This will get rid of the snails although it takes some time. It will not get rid of their eggs that have been laid in your HOB filter, on decorations, on the tank walls. The eggs are a clear jelly-like substance and can best be removed by hot water and bleach from your filter reservoir. I clean all my decorations with bleach by soaking them in a bleach solution in the sink for about 90 minutes than rinse well and add some de-chlor to make them safe again. Just removing the snails will not slove the problem... you gotta get the eggs too. JMO Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: va22_vyshys@... Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:26:00 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Restarting a tank To be perfectly honest getting rid of the fish will not get rid of the snails. I too have had the snail population overload and I've found 2 remedies to the problem. If you plan on re-doing everything then replacing the gravel will completely wipe them out (well it should.) Or you can trap them like I did. Get some algae wafers and toss a couple in the tank overnight, and when you wake in the morning scoop them out with your fish net. That worked for me. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31416	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Here's What I'm doing now.

Bill, They were air driven, and not by any old vibrator pump but by a DynaMaster 2 off a line that ran through my fishroom that I had at the time. Gave me more than enough air for the 30+ tanks I was maintaining. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Hi Steve,   Did you use power heads on it?  What were they or could you recommend some?   bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 11:46 PM I've done half a tank with UGF's before, and they worked quite well. You simply cannot load up your tank as people are wont to do. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Hi Steve   You're obviously a man with a sense of humor.   Sorry to disappoint with the breeding---- ----least for right now.  As far as the "she who must be obeyed" you must have missed my first intro posting.. Please believe me when I tell you that the CEO paid her dues the first time around in this hobby.  i.e.?  I use to change so much water in the house I actually had a garden hose running through it!  No, I'm not kidding!   Just and ol' guy here trying to catch up on things.  The tank in question is one of those Internet for sale type of things and just trying to get more information about it.  I visited the site you mentioned (among others today) trying to gain more information on this size.   It be more to the point with you the seller said that it also came with an under gravel filter plate and I wanted to be sure it covered the tanks bottom properly.   Making only half the distance just ain't gonna get it, if you know what I mean.   good hearing from you,   bill --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:36 PM From the site www.glasscages. com, 33 Gal. 48 x 12½ x 13 Tall $64. That is a breeder tank. The tank you mention will hold near 30 gallons (a bit on the shy side, though), and would probably have been used as a breeder--depends on what one is breeding <g>. Now, if you are trying to come to some sort of agreement with "she who is to be obeyed", well, you might want to start with this: 500 - 8 Wide 96 x 48 x 25 Tall $2200, and slowly work your way down <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here's What I'm doing now. Good Morning,   I thought I should come clean about what fish I'm keeping currently and where I'd like to go from here.   I currently have a 3-gallon hexagon, I am going to say is a "kit-type" aquarium because it came with everything needed------ ----sort of.  There was no heater.  The top has a light (15 watt incandescent bulb) and a filter pad arrangement with a carbon/filter pad and, yes the infamous bio-wheel!  I do not know from what manufacture but I'm thinking it came from a Wal-mart because that's all we have in our area.  It was a gift our son received.  He kept putting goldfish in it and they kept dying because he over fed them.  It all wound up that Pop got awarded the tank and a re-birth into the wonderful world of tropical fish.  Onward!   While he kept the fish I did notice one peculiar thing, the temperature.  It never got below 78 degrees.  I read years ago that acrylic tanks not only offered better visibility but also provided better insulation.  Apparently the article was correct.  I realized that at this temperature tropical fish would do nicely.  I currently have 3 Black Tetra's  and 2 small albino Corydoras catfish all are doing well.   I have a campaign going for a 30 gallon tank that I am trying to research because of its given size; 30" long x 18 wide x 13 tall.  This tank would be perfect for me if the dimensions are correct due to it's location  in our home, but I can't get confirmation as yet about this size.  Has anyone ever heard of a tank like this and if so, who makes it?  The seller is telling me that he used it as a breeding tank but I just can't get any more information.  Could it be a custom-made tank?  From the pictures he has posted the dimensions look correct.  I don't know if you can post pictures here on list-------- -----can you?   bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31417	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

Air can get through and past a towel, but you dont have to cover teh whole tank. I cover teh part of my tank that is in front of the air conditioner, every night. You could also keep the air pump outside of the towel - but maybe that would undo the whole idea. Dora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? I currently have my air pump sitting on top of the hood to recapture warm air so at night the water temp doesn't drop. I also place a towel over the top of the aquarium to insulate the top of the aquarium. This method works great at keeping the water temperature stable and am pleased with this method. I'm thinking though of putting the hood on a timer, and at the same time, putting the air pump on a timer as well. What is on my mind is would that time that the air pump is off would co2 build up, and how would it effect my fish and water chemistry? Aside from the fish, I have a few plants in the aquarium, but the HOB filter will still be running and agitating the water surface. Your opinion please. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31418	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Alina, The question is did you really get water wisteria, _Hygrophila difformis_ or did you get water sprite, which has two forms (I am not sure of the species status on this one), a floating form and a rooted form. According to Rataj, in an old, out of print book, "Aquarium Plants", _Certatoperis pteroides_ is the floating form, and _C. thalicroides_ _C. thalicroides_ is the planted form. Leaves on the second are similar to the hygro leaves. I don't know about the hygro, but the _Certatoperis pteroides_ does poorly in acid water, which makes it good as a bell weather for your aquarium water conditions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails Lenny, Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to .50, they go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. holding steady at zero. I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try my hand at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The snails are not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with happiness, all green and healthy. Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would be OK? I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the tank too much. Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and I came across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small world, man. That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. Thanks for all your help. Alina > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a natural part > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of control > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do harm to the > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do have a big > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I guess the > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a beautifully planted > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the trapping, > etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch up with the > bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. Your problem was all the > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the nitrifying > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't trash > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic breeders > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance of food. > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs ready to > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using as a > snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you ever see them > breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that you're not cleaning the > tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the appearance > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my plants, > I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific term :-)! )with > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still having > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, and have > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes three 25% > PWC a day. > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to .25, then > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been holding > steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next day or > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the nasties? First, > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel cleanings > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any for about > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to a > smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my fish? Can > my fish infect another tank? > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my filter > media? > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while and > see? > > 5. Do nothing? > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set up > about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish (remember, my > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move my fish > to that tank, and break mine down. > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my aquarium system > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they resurface. > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a full-time > job....something will have to give. If those of you with more experience > know that this is likely to taper off, and I can live with a snail here and > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from an > infected tank. > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I keep > thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the snail while > I treat my tank. > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies for the > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > Alina >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31419	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

I'm just covering the top of the tank. Its too bad I cannot power it down 50% automatically with a dimmer. That would probably be enough, but I'm not an electrician, and I don't want to mess with electrical cords and do something stupid that could cause a fire. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31420	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: pH and PWC

The pH of my tank water increases from 7.4 in the morning (8 am) to 7.8 in the evening (7 pm). My tap water is from a private well and the pH out of the tap is 7.0 with no chlorine or chloramine.  Would it not be best to do my weekly PWC (25%) and filter maintenance in the early morning to reduce the change in pH if I wish to use tap water?  I have a total of 4 filters (2 canisters and 2 HOB) on a 90 gallon tank that I alternate cleaning 1 each week.  I clean the filters at midweek and do the PWC on weekend so I am not cleaning a filter on the same day I do PWC and gravel vacuuming.  In an earlier post I believe Lenny stated that pH increase due to CO2 out gassing did not seem to affect the fish.  I wonder if this is not also the case with the good bacteria in the filters.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31421	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Hey... it was Mardi Gras... we were supposed to be drunk! ;-) And as far as the drive-thru Daiquiri's, I don't believe in drinking in driving in New Orleans... after all, you might hit a pothole and spill your drink. :-D Now, that's what we call alcohol abuse! LOL But it's OK in Metairie since we don't have many potholes. But you may not know... long before New Orleans had drive-thru Daiquiri's, I remember family vacations to Ohio as a kid and they had a chain of convenience stores called "Beer Barns" which were drive-thru barn type structures with convenient store amenities and of course, Beer. They also had similar businesses down in the Ft. Walton Beach, Florida, area for my Spring Break days... so it's not just a N'Awlins thing! OK. Back to getting fish tanked again. Once your current tank is fully cycled and you are no longer getting any kind of ammonia or nitrite reading, you can start planning your next addition of fish. I'm hoping you do have something to use as a quarantine tank? If you do, then you would get it set up with water and the filter running for a day to give the new water a chance to outgas and stabilize. Or you could use some of your tanks water in the Q-tank so the Q-tank and your main tank have similar water parameters. I've posted many times about having extra filter floss pads or sponge or some other bio-media to use in setting up a Q-tank or Hospital tank if/when needed. You don't have to go out and buy a new filter system for the H- or Q-tank, you can simply make a DIY Sponge Filter and put some of your extra filter media in it and your extra tank is ready to go for a small bioload like a couple of new fish or a sick fish. Here's an article on making a 5-minute DIY Sponge Filter. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.html If you don't have a Q-tank and you're going to risk adding new fish to your main tank, then make sure you vacuum your gravel well to remove any excess detritus, which would only add to the bioload along with the new fish. Do filter maintenance several days before adding the new fish to give the filter a chance to rebuild any lost nitrifying bacteria that might have happened during the filter maintenance. Last but not least, have your test kits ready and test the tank(s) daily and do PWC's if needed, should there be a mini-cycle where the ammonia or nitrites get over 1.0ppm. Also, pick up a bottle of SeaChem's Prime as a dechlor product since it will at least make the ammonia non-toxic to the fish... and the pinch of salt per 10G will protect against any potential nitrite level up to 1.0ppm. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 1:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails Of course they had the velcro wall! Too bad. Nick's was great, and one of the best local hangouts. And yes, it was late 80s, early 80s (the bad hair years) NOW I remember you! Ok, the dance teams got lots of whoops and hollers but let's face it, ya'll were drunk! They still had the drive-thru daiquiri joints back then. I still shake my head at that bright move. LOL So on to the real tank. As you know, I had just a few fish in there anyway 5 tetras (bless their hardy little hearts) one molly (my widower), one platy (his mistress) and Gary the Snail. When do you think it would be OK to add more fish? No, I'm not running out tonight to load up on fish, just hoping in the next week or so to bump up the bioload if all is right with the world. Thanks Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys > reading this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams > were full of babes! LOL > > I think I've been kicked out of most of the bars you listed at least once, > although I don't recognize Ms. Maes (it could have been on the end of the > route... LOL), and yes, I spent many a nights at Nick's Original Big Train > Bar on Tulane Ave. I think it's dead now due to Katrina. That area was > already struggling for business due to the neighborhood and I think Katrina > was the last straw. Here's a nice little blog about Nick's, including > references to all the crackheads in the neighborhood. LOL > http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html > <http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html> I even > won one of their Halloween costume contests. It took me a while to whittle > down that bar tab. Did they have their Velcro wall when you were hanging > out there? Heck, if you were hanging out there in the 80's and early 90's, > I probably hit on you at least once... and since you were a dance team babe, > likely more than once! LOL > > Most of the uptown bars are still around since uptown didn't get severely > flooded like much of the rest of the city. > > Oh yeah... good to see the tank is coming along. This thread is starting to > have a whole new meaning to getting tanked! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > I used to march in the Metairie Mardi Gras parades with one of those geeky > dance teams (TMI!) As for the bars -- Ms. Maes, TJ Quills were favorites, > and Fat Harrys, Cooter Brown's, the Maple Leaf for awesome Cajun music. Too > many nights in those places to count. And then I remember Nick's Bar...it > had all those weird mixed drinks. I loved that place. > > I did know that Seton had become a senior living facility. Bummer. > > As for the tank, reports are that nitrites are down to .25. Amen already! > Checking nitrates... > > Thanks so much. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long > before it was > > an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called > Sacred > > Heart and I only went there for first grade before migrating out to > > the burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into > > senior citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's > > the last > news I > > really heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't > really paid > > attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened > > after Katrina. > > > > Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult > > playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you > had to > > spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars > around > > Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. > > ;-) Which uptown bar was your favorite? > > > > OK... back to the fish. LOL > > > > It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant > PWC's. > > That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies > as well. > > I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer > before > > you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only > have to > > do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the > > nitrates and other water quality issues in check. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just > behind > > PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high > > school, Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. > (And here's > > a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato > > for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) > > > > It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. > > But I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one > > day to return, that's for sure. > > > > In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding > > at around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I > think Gary > > is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. > > Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can > > do without. > > > > Thanks again > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in > > Mid-City, near > > > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but > > > then > > isn't > > > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For > > others > > > reading this, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live > > > in Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the > > Westbank but > > > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > > > > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up > > between PWC's > > > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating > > > bacteria are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping > > > the nitrites in > > check. > > > > > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > > > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > > > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about > > > snacks they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper shell > growth. > > > If > > you have > > > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium > > Carbonate > > > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go > > > up in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go > > > down to > > .50, they > > > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > > > holding steady at zero. > > > > > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to > > > try > > my hand > > > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The > > snails are > > > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > > > happiness, all green and healthy. > > > > > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > > > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails > > > have been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > > > > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that > > > would > > be OK? > > > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up > > > the > > tank > > > too much. > > > > > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info > > > and > > I came > > > across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small > > world, man. > > > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > > > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > > > natural part > > > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out > > > > of > > > control > > > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do > > > > harm > > > to the > > > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > > > have a big > > > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. > > > > I > > > guess the > > > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a > > > > beautifully > > > planted > > > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will > > > > catch up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. > > > > Your problem was > > > all the > > > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so > > > > the > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I > > > > wouldn't > > > trash > > > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > > > breeders > > > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an > > > > abundance of > > > food. > > > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of > > > > eggs > > > ready to > > > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are > > > > using as a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If > > > > you ever see them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning > > > > that you're not cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > > under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > > > appearance > > > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a > > > > scientific term > > > :-)! )with > > > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm > > > > still > > > having > > > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to > > > > 2, > > > and have > > > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with > > > > sometimes > > > three 25% > > > > PWC a day. > > > > > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like > > > > to > > > .25, then > > > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been > > > > holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, > > > > afternoon, > > evening). > > > > > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the > > > > next > > > day or > > > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > > > nasties? First, > > > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > > > cleanings > > > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen > > > > any > > > for about > > > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > > > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter > > > > media to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank > > > > after removing my > > > fish? Can > > > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with > > > > my > > > filter > > > > media? > > > > > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a > > > > while and see? > > > > > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which > > > > we set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 > > > > small fish > > > (remember, my > > > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could > > > > move > > > my fish > > > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > > > aquarium system > > > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > > > resurface. > > > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a > > > > full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you > > > > with more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and > > > > I can live with a snail > > > here and > > > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect > > > > from an infected tank. > > > > > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. > > > > I keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and > > > > Gary the > > > snail while > > > > I treat my tank. > > > > > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my > > > > apologies > > > for the > > > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > > > > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 8:46:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Better than pictures... a little birdie told me that Alina's on YouTube. She's the one in the pink and black. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc And since lawn care is a growing part of my business down here (sevice added after Katrina), I think I might have to join this precision lawnmower dance team for next Mardi Gras. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk (While on this page, check out some of their other YouTube's... they're a crazy bunch of dudes!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails Pictures? Not you Lenny ;) -Mike OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were full of babes! LOL -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 9:45 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were full of babes! LOL I think I've been kicked out of most of the bars you listed at least once, although I don't recognize Ms. Maes (it could have been on the end of the route... LOL), and yes, I spent many a nights at Nick's Original Big Train Bar on Tulane Ave. I think it's dead now due to Katrina. That area was already struggling for business due to the neighborhood and I think Katrina was the last straw. Here's a nice little blog about Nick's, including references to all the crackheads in the neighborhood. LOL http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html <http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html> I even won one of their Halloween costume contests. It took me a while to whittle down that bar tab. Did they have their Velcro wall when you were hanging out there? Heck, if you were hanging out there in the 80's and early 90's, I probably hit on you at least once... and since you were a dance team babe, likely more than once! L OL Most of the uptown bars are still around since uptown didn't get severely flooded like much of the rest of the city. Oh yeah... good to see the tank is coming along. This thread is starting to have a whole new meaning to getting tanked! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails I used to march in the Metairie Mardi Gras parades with one of those geeky dance teams (TMI!) As for the bars -- Ms. Maes, TJ Quills were favorites, and Fat Harrys, Cooter Brown's, the Maple Leaf for awesome Cajun music. Too many nights in those places to count. And then I remember Nick's Bar...it had all those weird mixed drinks. I loved that place. I did know that Seton had become a senior living facility. Bummer. As for the tank, reports are that nitrites are down to .25. Amen already! Checking nitrates... Thanks so much. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long before it was > an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called Sacred > Heart and I only went there for first grade bef ore migrating out to > the burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into > senior citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's the > last news I > really heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't really paid > attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened after > Katrina. > > Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult > playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you had to > spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars around > Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. > ;-) Which uptown bar was your favorite? > > OK... back to the fish. LOL > > It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant PWC's. > That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies as well. > I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer before > you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only have to > do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the > nitrates and other water quality issues in check. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoog roups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just behind > PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high school, > Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. (And here's > a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato > for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) > > It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. But > I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day > to return, that's for sure. > > In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding at > around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I think Gary > is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. > Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can do > without. > > Thanks again > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in > Mid-City, near > > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then > isn't > > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For > others > > reading t his, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the > Westbank but > > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up > between PWC's > > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria > > are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites > > in > check. > > > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about > > snacks they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper > > shell growth. > > If > you have > > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium > Carbonate > > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:Aquati cLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > Lenny, > > > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up > > in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to > .50, they > > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > > holding steady at zero. > > > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try > my hand > > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The > snails are > > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > > happiness, all green and healthy. > > > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have > > been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would > be OK? > > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the > tank > > too much. > > > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and > I came > > across20a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small > world, man. > > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > Alina > > > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > > natural part > > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > > control > > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do > > > harm > > to the > > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > > have a big > > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > > guess the > > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a > > > beautifully > > planted > > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch > > > up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. > > > Your problem was > > all the > > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > > trash > > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > > breeders > > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance > > > of > > food. > > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > > ready to > > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using > > > as a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you > > > ever see them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that > > > you're not cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles > > > referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40 yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > > appearance > > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a > > > scientific term > > :-)! )with > > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm > > > still > > having > > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > > and have > > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > > three 25% > > > PWC a day. > > > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > > .25, then > > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been > > > holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, > evening). > > > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > > day or > > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > > nasties? First, > > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > > cleanings > > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > > for about > > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > > 2. Can I i nfect another tank by say, transferring my filter media > > > to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after > > > removing my > > fish? Can > > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > > filter > > > media? > > > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a > > > while and see? > > > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we > > > set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small > > > fish > > (remember, my > > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could > > > move > > my fish > > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > > aquarium system > > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > > resurface. > > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a > > > full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with > > > more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can > > > live with a snail > > here and > > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from > > > an infected=2 0tank. > > > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I > > > keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary > > > the > > snail while > > > I treat my tank. > > > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my > > > apologies > > for the > > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! 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Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 11:25:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 11:45:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 2:33:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 9:11:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31423	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen

You know, right before you posted, a new member tried to join... he called himself Mr. Koi, but his typing wasn't very good so we didn't allow him into the group. I did catch a glimpse of the comments added to his subscription request and here's a copy/paste of it. "I'm just trying to type with my fins to warn all them crazy fish keepers out there about making sure that any decorations with openings should be checked to make sure the openings are large enough for the largest fish in the tank to swim through... now and in anticipation of them growing. This also means the gaps between the filter system intake tubes, etc.... Signed, Mr. Koi (with the sore back and crazy owner)" I did edit out some of the other things that Mr. Koi called his owner. ;-) He should be fine and you aren't the first or last to have this happen. I had a blue gourami try to swim through an undersized opening in a castle a few years back and I had to push him back out the castle by pushing on his face. Same types of injuries as yours. I used Melafix as a antibacterial preventive measure to help him heal up. I learned my lesson back then. Lenny Vasbinder (and the stupid Blue Gourami.. LOL) Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen One of my 4" Koi's (now living in a 50 gallon tank) managed to wedge himself into a tower decoration and couldn't manage to swim back out so I had to go in after him (stupid, stupid fish). He is eating/swimming fine but is missing a few scales by his dorsal fin, I added Stress Coat, checked the water levels (which were all normal), anything else I should do??? Chris and the Stupid Koi in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 9:30:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31424	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

If you want to spend the money, they do make timers that will dim the lights before turning them off, and bring the lights up slowly when turning them on. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? I'm just covering the top of the tank. Its too bad I cannot power it down 50% automatically with a dimmer. That would probably be enough, but I'm not an electrician, and I don't want to mess with electrical cords and do something stupid that could cause a fire.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31425	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Ahhhh, the one in Pink and Black, I see her now ;) Lawn mower dance, awesome. I do believe I have an uncle that participates in lawn mower races. Fish content. Finally have all my fish at my new house in my new fishroom! Took forever and I still have a 110 gallon empty acrylic tank to move from the old house. The new fish room is getting nice and toasty with only two aquarium heaters in my Malagasy cichlid tank. That is to say the room is not heated, I only have two tank heaters running and two linear air pumps. This is the only source of heat other than the outside air when I open the door. Hope it stays like this during the winter but I doubt it. -Mike Better than pictures... a little birdie told me that Alina's on YouTube. She's the one in the pink and black. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc And since lawn care is a growing part of my business down here (sevice added after Katrina), I think I might have to join this precision lawnmower dance team for next Mardi Gras. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk (While on this page, check out some of their other YouTube's... they're a crazy bunch of dudes!) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 7:11 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails Bet ter than pictures... a little birdie told me that Alina's on YouTube. She's the one in the pink and black. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc And since lawn care is a growing part of my business down here (sevice added after Katrina), I think I might have to join this precision lawnmower dance team for next Mardi Gras. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk (While on this page, check out some of their other YouTube's... they're a crazy bunch of dudes!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails Pictures? Not you Lenny ;) -Mike OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were full of babes! LOL -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 9:45 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading this, don't buy the=2 0"geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were full of babes! LOL I think I've been kicked out of most of the bars you listed at least once, although I don't recognize Ms. Maes (it could have been on the end of the route... LOL), and yes, I spent many a nights at Nick's Original Big Train Bar on Tulane Ave. I think it's dead now due to Katrina. That area was already struggling for business due to the neighborhood and I think Katrina was the last straw. Here's a nice little blog about Nick's, including references to all the crackheads in the neighborhood. LOL http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html <http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html> I even won one of their Halloween costume contests. It took me a while to whittle down that bar tab. Did they have their Velcro wall when you were hanging out there? Heck, if you were hanging out there in the 80's and early 90's, I probably hit on you at least once... and since you were a dance team babe, likely more than once! L OL Most of the uptown bars are still around since uptown didn't get severely flooded like much of the rest of the city. Oh yeah... good to see the tank is coming along. This thread is starting to have a whole new meaning to getting tanked! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month=2 0and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails I used to march in the Metairie Mardi Gras parades with one of those geeky dance teams (TMI!) As for the bars -- Ms. Maes, TJ Quills were favorites, and Fat Harrys, Cooter Brown's, the Maple Leaf for awesome Cajun music. Too many nights in those places to count. And then I remember Nick's Bar...it had all those weird mixed drinks. I loved that place. I did know that Seton had become a senior living facility. Bummer. As for the tank, reports are that nitrites are down to .25. Amen already! Checking nitrates... Thanks so much. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long before it was > an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called Sacred > Heart and I only went there for first grade bef ore migrating out to > the burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into > senior citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's the > last news I > real ly heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't really paid > attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened after > Katrina. > > Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult > playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you had to > spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars around > Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. > ;-) Which uptown bar was your favorite? > > OK... back to the fish. LOL > > It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant PWC's. > That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies as well. > I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer before > you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only have to > do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the > nitrates and other water quality issues in check. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoog roups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just behind > PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high school, > Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. (And here's > a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato > for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) > > It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. But > I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day > to return, that's for sure. > > In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding at > around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I think Gary > is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. > Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can do > without. > > Thanks again > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in > Mid-City, near > > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then > isn't > > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For > others > > reading t his, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the > Westbank but > > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up > between PWC's > > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria > > are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites > > in > check. > > > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about > > snacks they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper > > shell growth. > > If > you have > > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium > Carbonate > > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > >20<http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:Aquati cLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > Lenny, > > > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up > > in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to > .50, they > > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > > holding steady at zero. > > > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try > my hand > > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The > snails are > > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > > happiness, all green and healthy. > > > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have > > been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would > be OK? > > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the > tank > > too much. > > > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and > I came > > across20a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small > world, man. > > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > Alina > > > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > > natural part > > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > > control > > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do > > > harm > > to the > > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do >=2 0> have a big > > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > > guess the > > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a > > > beautifully > > planted > > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch > > > up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. > > > Your problem was > > all the > > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > > trash > > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > > breeders > > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance > > > of > > food. > > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > > ready to > > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using > > > as a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you > > > ever see them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that > > > you're not cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.c om > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles > > > referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40 yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > > appearance > > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a > > > scientific term > > :-)! )with > > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm > > > still > > having > > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > > and have > > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > > three 25% > > > PWC a day. > > > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > > .25, then > > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been > > > holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, > evening). > > > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > > day or > > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > > nasties? First, > > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > > cleanings > > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > > for about > > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > > 2. Can I i nfect another tank by say, trans ferring my filter media > > > to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after > > > removing my > > fish? Can > > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > > filter > > > media? > > > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a > > > while and see? > > > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we > > > set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small > > > fish > > (remember, my > > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could > > > move > > my fish > > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > > aquarium system > > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > > resurface. > > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a > > > full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with > > > more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can > > > live with a snail > > here and > > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not=2 0sure what to expect from > > > an infected=2 0tank. > > > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I > > > keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary > > > the > > snail while > > > I treat my tank. > > > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my > > > apologies > > for the > > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > >=2 0> > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > 11:59:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > 7:06:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > 7:43:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL=2 0Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > 8:23:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > 8:45:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 11:25:05 AM avast! -20copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 11:45:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 2:33:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 9:11:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31426	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

Not for fluorescent bulbs/tubes... do they? Well, a quick Google found my own answer... but it's not a simple or inexpensive task and would not work with standard aquarium lighting ballasts. http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infelectrical/inffluor.html (START SNIP) Can you use a dimmer with fluorescent light fixtures? Yes and no. Yes, there is a specially-designed dimmer switch that will work with some fluorescent fixtures. However, this type of dimmer is "ballast-dependent", meaning that each brand of fluorescent dimmer will only work with certain ballasts from certain manufacturers. In other words, trying to find a dimmer to match your fixture may be a mind-numbing chore. The ideal situation is to choose the dimmer and the light fixture together to assure compatibility. Also, these dimmers will not work for incandescent fixtures. You cannot mix fluorescent fixtures and incandescent fixtures on the same switch. The "No" part of this question is that the "conventional" dimmer switches you can purchase at the hardware store are designed for incandescent lighting only, not fluorescent lighting. If you attempt to use them, the fluorescent fixture may work but only in the full-on position, if at all. (END SNIP) And here's more info with the details on how to get dimmable fluorescent lighting... http://members.misty.com/don/f-dim.html http://www.lutron.com/product_technical/fluorescent.htm http://www.gelighting.com/na/business_lighting/faqs/fluorescent.htm#7 http://www.lighting-fixtures-ceiling-fans.com/store/PPF/parameters/416_106/m ore_info.asp But I'm glad you mentioned this \\Steve// as I recently told one of my customers that they could not use CFL's as replacement bulbs in their home ceiling recessed light fixtures as they were not dimmable and she wanted to keep that feature in her living room lighting... so I was technically right and wrong since her dimmer switches were not the correct kind and the particular CFL bulbs she had purchased did not have the dimmable ballasts. It's a good day when I learn something new! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? If you want to spend the money, they do make timers that will dim the lights before turning them off, and bring the lights up slowly when turning them on. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? I'm just covering the top of the tank. Its too bad I cannot power it down 50% automatically with a dimmer. That would probably be enough, but I'm not an electrician, and I don't want to mess with electrical cords and do something stupid that could cause a fire. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 10:31:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 1:17:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31427	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/16/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

Where can they be purchased? Thanks, Bill -------Original Message------- From: Steve Szabo Date: 10/16/2008 8:25:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? If you want to spend the money, they do make timers that will dim the lights before turning them off, and bring the lights up slowly when turning them on. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? I'm just covering the top of the tank. Its too bad I cannot power it down 50% automatically with a dimmer. That would probably be enough, but I'm not an electrician, and I don't want to mess with electrical cords and do something stupid that could cause a fire. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31428	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

I have two lamps with fluorescent bulbs that are capable of dimming. They cost me about $40 per. I believe you need to look at the marine equipment to get the closest thing to dimming, where they use different bulbs to create a sunrise/sunset and they even have bulbs to mimic moonlight. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 2:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? Not for fluorescent bulbs/tubes... do they? Well, a quick Google found my own answer... but it's not a simple or inexpensive task and would not work with standard aquarium lighting ballasts. http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infelectrical/inffluor.html (START SNIP) Can you use a dimmer with fluorescent light fixtures? Yes and no. Yes, there is a specially-designed dimmer switch that will work with some fluorescent fixtures. However, this type of dimmer is "ballast-dependent", meaning that each brand of fluorescent dimmer will only work with certain ballasts from certain manufacturers. In other words, trying to find a dimmer to match your fixture may be a mind-numbing chore. The ideal situation is to choose the dimmer and the light fixture together to assure compatibility. Also, these dimmers will not work for incandescent fixtures. You cannot mix fluorescent fixtures and incandescent fixtures on the same switch. The "No" part of this question is that the "conventional" dimmer switches you can purchase at the hardware store are designed for incandescent lighting only, not fluorescent lighting. If you attempt to use them, the fluorescent fixture may work but only in the full-on position, if at all. (END SNIP) And here's more info with the details on how to get dimmable fluorescent lighting... http://members.misty.com/don/f-dim.html http://www.lutron.com/product_technical/fluorescent.htm http://www.gelighting.com/na/business_lighting/faqs/fluorescent.htm#7 http://www.lighting-fixtures-ceiling-fans.com/store/PPF/parameters/416_1 06/m ore_info.asp But I'm glad you mentioned this \\Steve// as I recently told one of my customers that they could not use CFL's as replacement bulbs in their home ceiling recessed light fixtures as they were not dimmable and she wanted to keep that feature in her living room lighting... so I was technically right and wrong since her dimmer switches were not the correct kind and the particular CFL bulbs she had purchased did not have the dimmable ballasts. It's a good day when I learn something new! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? If you want to spend the money, they do make timers that will dim the lights before turning them off, and bring the lights up slowly when turning them on. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? I'm just covering the top of the tank. Its too bad I cannot power it down 50% automatically with a dimmer. That would probably be enough, but I'm not an electrician, and I don't want to mess with electrical cords and do something stupid that could cause a fire.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31429	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Would this be a mistake?

See my previous post to Lennny. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 2:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Would this be a mistake? Where can they be purchased? Thanks, Bill -------Original Message------- From: Steve Szabo Date: 10/16/2008 8:25:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? If you want to spend the money, they do make timers that will dim the lights before turning them off, and bring the lights up slowly when turning them on. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Would this be a mistake? I'm just covering the top of the tank. Its too bad I cannot power it down 50% automatically with a dimmer. That would probably be enough, but I'm not an electrician, and I don't want to mess with electrical cords and do something stupid that could cause a fire.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31430	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen

Oh my....   I had checked to make sure no one could get in the "windows" but I hadn't considered dummy knocking it over to swim up from the bottom to get stuck in my safety examination.  I'll toss the Melafix in tonight I know I have a bottle in my fishy first aid kit.   By the way, the two large 19" pleco's I had are being re-homed tonight into a huge 3/4 wall aquarium at a Japanese restaurant opening up Saturday night.  It's 3' thick, 9' high, and 12' wide and absolutely gorgeous... (I think I have aquarium envy)   Chris in VA --- On Thu, 10/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:30 PM You know, right before you posted, a new member tried to join... he called himself Mr. Koi, but his typing wasn't very good so we didn't allow him into the group. I did catch a glimpse of the comments added to his subscription request and here's a copy/paste of it. "I'm just trying to type with my fins to warn all them crazy fish keepers out there about making sure that any decorations with openings should be checked to make sure the openings are large enough for the largest fish in the tank to swim through... now and in anticipation of them growing. This also means the gaps between the filter system intake tubes, etc.... Signed, Mr. Koi (with the sore back and crazy owner)" I did edit out some of the other things that Mr. Koi called his owner. ;-) He should be fine and you aren't the first or last to have this happen. I had a blue gourami try to swim through an undersized opening in a castle a few years back and I had to push him back out the castle by pushing on his face. Same types of injuries as yours. I used Melafix as a antibacterial preventive measure to help him heal up. I learned my lesson back then. Lenny Vasbinder (and the stupid Blue Gourami.. LOL) Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen One of my 4" Koi's (now living in a 50 gallon tank) managed to wedge himself into a tower decoration and couldn't manage to swim back out so I had to go in after him (stupid, stupid fish). He is eating/swimming fine but is missing a few scales by his dorsal fin, I added Stress Coat, checked the water levels (which were all normal), anything else I should do??? Chris and the Stupid Koi in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 9:30:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31431	From: Chris Owens	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours

What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31432	From: Alina	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Ha, on my best day that wasn't me! Remember, I went to a Catholic all-girls school, people! We marched wearing suits of armor!!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Ahhhh, the one in Pink and Black, I see her now ;) > > Lawn mower dance, awesome. I do believe I have an uncle that participates in lawn mower races. > > Fish content. > Finally have all my fish at my new house in my new fishroom! > > Took forever and I still have a 110 gallon empty acrylic tank to move from the old house. > > The new fish room is getting nice and toasty with only two aquarium heaters in my Malagasy cichlid tank. That is to say the room is not heated, I only have two tank heaters running and two linear air pumps. This is the only source of heat other than the outside air when I open the door. Hope it stays like this during the winter but I doubt it. > > -Mike > > > > > Better than pictures... a little birdie told me that Alina's on YouTube. > > > > She's the one in the pink and black. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc > > > > And since lawn care is a growing part of my business down here (sevice added > > after Katrina), I think I might have to join this precision lawnmower dance > > team for next Mardi Gras. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk > > (While on this page, check out some of their other YouTube's... they're a > > crazy bunch of dudes!) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 7:11 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bet > ter than pictures... a little birdie told me that Alina's on YouTube. > > She's the one in the pink and black. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc > > > > And since lawn care is a growing part of my business down here (sevice added > > after Katrina), I think I might have to join this precision lawnmower dance > > team for next Mardi Gras. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk > > (While on this page, check out some of their other YouTube's... they're a > > crazy bunch of dudes!) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > Pictures? > > > > Not you Lenny ;) > > > > -Mike > > > > OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading > > this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were > > full of babes! LOL > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 9:45 am > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading > > this, don't buy the=2 > 0"geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were > > full of babes! LOL > > > > I think I've been kicked out of most of the bars you listed at least once, > > although I don't recognize Ms. Maes (it could have been on the end of the > > route... LOL), and yes, I spent many a nights at Nick's Original Big Train > > Bar on Tulane Ave. I think it's dead now due to Katrina. That area was > > already struggling for business due to the neighborhood and I think Katrina > > was the last straw. Here's a nice little blog about Nick's, including > > references to all the crackheads in the neighborhood. LOL > > http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html > > <http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html> I even > > won one of their Halloween costume contests. It took me a while to whittle > > down that bar tab. Did they have their Velcro wall when you were hanging out > > there? Heck, if you were hanging out there in the 80's and early 90's, I > > probably hit on you at least once... and since you were a dance team babe, > > likely more than once! L OL > > > > Most of the uptown bars are still around since uptown didn't get severely > > flooded like much of the rest of the city. > > > > Oh yeah... good to see the tank is coming along. This thread is starting to > > have a whole new meaning to getting tanked! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month=2 > 0and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:48 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > I used to march in the Metairie Mardi Gras parades with one of those geeky > > dance teams (TMI!) As for the bars -- Ms. Maes, TJ Quills were favorites, > > and Fat Harrys, Cooter Brown's, the Maple Leaf for awesome Cajun music. Too > > many nights in those places to count. And then I remember Nick's Bar...it > > had all those weird mixed drinks. I loved that place. > > > > I did know that Seton had become a senior living facility. Bummer. > > > > As for the tank, reports are that nitrites are down to .25. Amen already! > > Checking nitrates... > > > > Thanks so much. > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long > > before it was > > > an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called > > Sacred > > > Heart and I only went there for first grade bef > > ore migrating out to > > > the burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into > > > senior citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's the > > > last > > news I > > > real > ly heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't > > really paid > > > attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened after > > > Katrina. > > > > > > Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult > > > playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you > > had to > > > spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars > > around > > > Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. > > > ;-) Which uptown bar was your favorite? > > > > > > OK... back to the fish. LOL > > > > > > It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant > > PWC's. > > > That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies > > as well. > > > I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer > > before > > > you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only > > have to > > > do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the > > > nitrates and other water quality issues in check. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoog roups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just > > behind > > > PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high school, > > > Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. > > (And here's > > > a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato > > > for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) > > > > > > It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. But > > > I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day > > > to return, that's for sure. > > > > > > In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding at > > > around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I > > think Gary > > > is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. > > > Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can do > > > without. > > > > > > Thanks again > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in > > > Mid-City, near > > > > > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then > > > isn't > > > > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For > > > others > > > > reading t > > his, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > > > > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the > > > Westbank but > > > > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > > > > > > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up > > > between PWC's > > > > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria > > > > are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites > > > > in > > > check. > > > > > > > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > > > > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > > > > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about > > > > snacks they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper > > > > shell > > growth. > > > > If > > > you have > > > > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium > > > Carbonate > > > > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > >20<http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > > > above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:Aquati > > cLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > > > > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up > > > > in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to > > > .50, they > > > > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > > > > holding steady at zero. > > > > > > > > I don't have any > fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try > > > my hand > > > > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The > > > snails are > > > > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > > > > happiness, all green and healthy. > > > > > > > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > > > > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have > > > > been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > > > > > > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would > > > be OK? > > > > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the > > > tank > > > > too much. > > > > > > > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and > > > I came > > > > across20a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small > > > world, man. > > > > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > > > > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > > > > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > > > > natural part > > > > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > > > > control > > > > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do > > > > > harm > > > > to the > > > > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > > >=2 > 0> have a big > > > > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > > > > guess the > > > > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a > > > > > beautifully > > > > planted > > > > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > > > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch > > > > > up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. > > > > > Your problem was > > > > all the > > > > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > > > > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > > > > trash > > > > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > > > > > > breeders > > > > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance > > > > > of > > > > food. > > > > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > > > > ready to > > > > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using > > > > > as a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you > > > > > ever see them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that > > > > > you're not cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.c > om > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles > > > > > referenced above listed on the right side under > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40 > > yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > > > > > This is a little > long, so bear with me.. > > > > > > > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > > > > appearance > > > > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > > > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a > > > > > scientific term > > > > :-)! )with > > > > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm > > > > > still > > > > having > > > > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > > > > and have > > > > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > > > > three 25% > > > > > PWC a day. > > > > > > > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > > > > .25, then > > > > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been > > > > > holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, > > > evening). > > > > > > > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > > > > day or > > > > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > > > > nasties? First, > > > > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > > > > cleanings > > > > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > > > > for about > > > > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > > > > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > > > > 2. Can I i > > nfect another tank by say, trans > ferring my filter media > > > > > to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after > > > > > removing my > > > > fish? Can > > > > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > > > > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > > > > filter > > > > > media? > > > > > > > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a > > > > > while and see? > > > > > > > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > > > > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we > > > > > set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small > > > > > fish > > > > (remember, my > > > > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > > > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could > > > > > move > > > > my fish > > > > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > > > > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > > > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > > > > aquarium system > > > > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > > > > resurface. > > > > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a > > > > > full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with > > > > > more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can > > > > > live with a snail > > > > here and > > > > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not=2 > 0sure what to expect from > > > > > an infected=2 > > 0tank. > > > > > > > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I > > > > > keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary > > > > > the > > > > snail while > > > > > I treat my tank. > > > > > > > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my > > > > > apologies > > > > for the > > > > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com > > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > > < > http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com > > > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/15/2008 > > > > > 9:58:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > avast! 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Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com > > > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com > > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > > > 7:43:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL=2 > > 0Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > > 8:23:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 > > > 8:45:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 11:25:05 AM > > avast! -20copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 11:45:06 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ________________________________ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081015-0, 10/15/2008 > > Tested on: 10/16/2008 2:33:37 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 > > Tested on: 10/16/2008 9:11:32 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31433	From: Alina	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank

Can I ask you something....again, most websites don't really address how these nuisance snails multiply....are they eating and laying eggs all over or do they tend to drop the eggs on decorations only..and are they born mature enough to multiply? I had hoped that I had caught my population early and I've vacuumed the gravel so many times my fish want to revolt, so I had hoped I might have taken the bulk of the eggs. I guess what I want to know more about is their egg-laying cycle so I can interrupt it......any thoughts? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote: > > > I have found the only way that I can really get rid of the problem snails is to trap as many of them as possible by floating a lettuce leaf on the surface over night and then harvesting them off first thing in the morning. This will get rid of the snails although it takes some time. It will not get rid of their eggs that have been laid in your HOB filter, on decorations, on the tank walls. The eggs are a clear jelly-like substance and can best be removed by hot water and bleach from your filter reservoir. I clean all my decorations with bleach by soaking them in a bleach solution in the sink for about 90 minutes than rinse well and add some de-chlor to make them safe again. Just removing the snails will not slove the problem... you gotta get the eggs too. JMO > > Grey > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: va22_vyshys@... > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:26:00 +0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Restarting a tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be perfectly honest getting rid of the fish will not get rid of the > > snails. I too have had the snail population overload and I've found 2 > > remedies to the problem. If you plan on re-doing everything then > > replacing the gravel will completely wipe them out (well it should.) Or > > you can trap them like I did. Get some algae wafers and toss a couple > > in the tank overnight, and when you wake in the morning scoop them out > > with your fish net. That worked for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31434	From: Alina	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Steve, this is what I have: Ceratopteris thalictroides The plants are doing great, truly. And yes, my water tends to be hard and acidic. They're lovely. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Alina, > > The question is did you really get water wisteria, _Hygrophila > difformis_ or did you get water sprite, which has two forms (I am not > sure of the species status on this one), a floating form and a rooted > form. According to Rataj, in an old, out of print book, "Aquarium > Plants", _Certatoperis pteroides_ is the floating form, and _C. > thalicroides_ _C. thalicroides_ is the planted form. Leaves on the > second are similar to the hygro leaves. I don't know about the hygro, > but the _Certatoperis pteroides_ does poorly in acid water, which makes > it good as a bell weather for your aquarium water conditions. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > Lenny, > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up > in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to > .50, they go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > holding steady at zero. > > I don't have any fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try my > hand at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The > snails are not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look > giddy with happiness, all green and healthy. > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have > been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would > be OK? I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck > up the tank too much. > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and I > came across a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small > world, man. That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > Thanks for all your help. > > Alina > > > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > natural part > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > control > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do harm > to the > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > have a big > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > guess the > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a beautifully > planted > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > trapping, > > etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch up with the > > bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. Your problem was > all the > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > nitrifying > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > trash > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > breeders > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance of > food. > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > ready to > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using as > a > > snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you ever see > them > > breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that you're not cleaning > the > > tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > This is a little long, so bear with me.. > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > appearance > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > plants, > > I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a scientific term > :-)! )with > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm still > having > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > and have > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > three 25% > > PWC a day. > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > .25, then > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been holding > > steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, evening). > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > day or > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > nasties? First, > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > cleanings > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > for about > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > 2. Can I infect another tank by say, transferring my filter media to a > > smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after removing my > fish? Can > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > filter > > media? > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a while > and > > see? > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we set > up > > about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small fish > (remember, my > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could move > my fish > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > aquarium system > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > resurface. > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a full-time > > job....something will have to give. If those of you with more > experience > > know that this is likely to taper off, and I can live with a snail > here and > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not sure what to expect from an > > infected tank. > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I keep > > thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary the > snail while > > I treat my tank. > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my apologies > for the > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > Alina > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31435	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours

Thanks Chris for the infor...I am courious to see what everyone else has...I don't have one...but will after this post....I have one comet goldfish in a 46 ga tank I would like suggestions to get her a friend. In a message dated 10/17/2008 9:22:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, chris_o_p@... writes: What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31436	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen

Wish i could afford to build/own/maintain a tank like that :P On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@...>wrote: > Oh my.... > > I had checked to make sure no one could get in the "windows" but I hadn't > considered dummy knocking it over to swim up from the bottom to get stuck in > my safety examination. I'll toss the Melafix in tonight I know I have a > bottle in my fishy first aid kit. > > By the way, the two large 19" pleco's I had are being re-homed tonight into > a huge 3/4 wall aquarium at a Japanese restaurant opening up Saturday > night. It's 3' thick, 9' high, and 12' wide and absolutely gorgeous... (I > think I have aquarium envy) > > Chris in VA > > --- On Thu, 10/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...<GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:30 PM > > > You know, right before you posted, a new member tried to join... he called > himself Mr. Koi, but his typing wasn't very good so we didn't allow him > into > the group. I did catch a glimpse of the comments added to his subscription > request and here's a copy/paste of it. > > "I'm just trying to type with my fins to warn all them crazy fish keepers > out there about making sure that any decorations with openings should be > checked to make sure the openings are large enough for the largest fish in > the tank to swim through... now and in anticipation of them growing. This > also means the gaps between the filter system intake tubes, etc.... Signed, > Mr. Koi (with the sore back and crazy owner)" > > I did edit out some of the other things that Mr. Koi called his owner. ;-) > > He should be fine and you aren't the first or last to have this happen. I > had a blue gourami try to swim through an undersized opening in a castle a > few years back and I had to push him back out the castle by pushing on his > face. Same types of injuries as yours. I used Melafix as a antibacterial > preventive measure to help him heal up. I learned my lesson back then. > > Lenny Vasbinder (and the stupid Blue Gourami.. LOL) > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Chris Owens > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen > > One of my 4" Koi's (now living in a 50 gallon tank) managed to wedge > himself > into a tower decoration and couldn't manage to swim back out so I had to go > in after him (stupid, stupid fish). He is eating/swimming fine but is > missing a few scales by his dorsal fin, I added Stress Coat, checked the > water levels (which were all normal), anything else I should do??? > > Chris and the Stupid Koi in VA > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 > Tested on: 10/16/2008 9:30:15 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen

Ahhh.. he found the secret entrance. LOL Koi are infamous for knocking things over which is why the trend for Koi ponds, for many years has been away from the water garden look since they tear up any potted plants anyhow. I haven't owned any Koi since my ponds were on the small side... 1,000G or less, which really aren't big enough for even a single Koi since a 1,000G pond wouldn't have enough swimming room.. and barely enough water volume. I'm sure they'll have a professional aquarium servicing company so this might not be an issue but make sure they feed your BIG guys enough and that they have real driftwood in the tanks for them. There will not be any algae in a new tank so they'll need lots of supplements. Even with lots of conditions supporting algae growth, a pleco and especially a BIG pleco would still need lots of other food in their diet. Good job on finding them a good home! So... which wall in your home isn't looking very good and might need replacing... with a GIANT tank? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 5:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen Oh my.... I had checked to make sure no one could get in the "windows" but I hadn't considered dummy knocking it over to swim up from the bottom to get stuck in my safety examination. I'll toss the Melafix in tonight I know I have a bottle in my fishy first aid kit. By the way, the two large 19" pleco's I had are being re-homed tonight into a huge 3/4 wall aquarium at a Japanese restaurant opening up Saturday night. It's 3' thick, 9' high, and 12' wide and absolutely gorgeous... (I think I have aquarium envy) Chris in VA --- On Thu, 10/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:30 PM You know, right before you posted, a new member tried to join... he called himself Mr. Koi, but his typing wasn't very good so we didn't allow him into the group. I did catch a glimpse of the comments added to his subscription request and here's a copy/paste of it. "I'm just trying to type with my fins to warn all them crazy fish keepers out there about making sure that any decorations with openings should be checked to make sure the openings are large enough for the largest fish in the tank to swim through... now and in anticipation of them growing. This also means the gaps between the filter system intake tubes, etc.... Signed, Mr. Koi (with the sore back and crazy owner)" I did edit out some of the other things that Mr. Koi called his owner. ;-) He should be fine and you aren't the first or last to have this happen. I had a blue gourami try to swim through an undersized opening in a castle a few years back and I had to push him back out the castle by pushing on his face. Same types of injuries as yours. I used Melafix as a antibacterial preventive measure to help him heal up. I learned my lesson back then. Lenny Vasbinder (and the stupid Blue Gourami.. LOL) Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen One of my 4" Koi's (now living in a 50 gallon tank) managed to wedge himself into a tower decoration and couldn't manage to swim back out so I had to go in after him (stupid, stupid fish). He is eating/swimming fine but is missing a few scales by his dorsal fin, I added Stress Coat, checked the water levels (which were all normal), anything else I should do??? Chris and the Stupid Koi in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:26:16 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31438	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Livin' At Lenny's!

Ol� bill here; I have been living over at Lenny�s web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. � I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I�d love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I�d like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven�t even purchased yet. � Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well.� You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now?� Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them.� PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. � Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists!� I am not condemning here just trying to learn more.� � If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. �Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems.� No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn�t lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. � What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem.� Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options?� On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago.� I was over on their web-site and found I tank I�d really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13.� I came up with this size after some discussion with �Lenny� from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. � I�d appreciate any thoughts here.� Where do I start?� Test kit, by who?� The Tank it self?� What�s my next move?� Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I�d like to get started before I�m too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. � bill � � __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31439	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Awww.. now you're teasing Mike and I with the Catholic school girl outfit visions. LOL Can you sing, "Ooops, I did it again!" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails Ha, on my best day that wasn't me! Remember, I went to a Catholic all-girls school, people! We marched wearing suits of armor!!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Ahhhh, the one in Pink and Black, I see her now ;) > > Lawn mower dance, awesome. I do believe I have an uncle that participates in lawn mower races. > > Fish content. > Finally have all my fish at my new house in my new fishroom! > > Took forever and I still have a 110 gallon empty acrylic tank to move from the old house. > > The new fish room is getting nice and toasty with only two aquarium heaters in my Malagasy cichlid tank. That is to say the room is not heated, I only have two tank heaters running and two linear air pumps. This is the only source of heat other than the outside air when I open the door. Hope it stays like this during the winter but I doubt it. > > -Mike > > > > > Better than pictures... a little birdie told me that Alina's on YouTube. > > > > She's the one in the pink and black. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc> > > > > And since lawn care is a growing part of my business down here (sevice added > > after Katrina), I think I might have to join this precision lawnmower dance > > team for next Mardi Gras. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk> > > (While on this page, check out some of their other YouTube's... they're a > > crazy bunch of dudes!) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 7:11 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > Bet > ter than pictures... a little birdie told me that Alina's on YouTube. > > She's the one in the pink and black. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc> > > > > And since lawn care is a growing part of my business down here (sevice added > > after Katrina), I think I might have to join this precision lawnmower dance > > team for next Mardi Gras. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk> > > (While on this page, check out some of their other YouTube's... they're a > > crazy bunch of dudes!) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > Pictures? > > > > Not you Lenny ;) > > > > -Mike > > > > OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading > > this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams > were > > full of babes! LOL > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 9:45 am > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading > > this, don't buy the=2 > 0"geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were > > full of babes! LOL > > > > I think I've been kicked out of most of the bars you listed at least once, > > although I don't recognize Ms. Maes (it could have been on the end of the > > route... LOL), and yes, I spent many a nights at Nick's Original Big Train > > Bar on Tulane Ave. I think it's dead now due to Katrina. That area was > > already struggling for business due to the neighborhood and I think Katrina > > was the last straw. Here's a nice little blog about Nick's, including > > references to all the crackheads in the neighborhood. LOL > > http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html > <http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html> > > <http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html > <http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html> > I even > > won one of their Halloween costume contests. It took me a while to whittle > > down that bar tab. Did they have their Velcro wall when you were hanging out > > there? Heck, if you were hanging out there in the 80's and early 90's, > I > > probably hit on you at least once... and since you were a dance team babe, > > likely more than once! L OL > > > > Most of the uptown bars are still around since uptown didn't get severely > > flooded like much of the rest of the city. > > > > Oh yeah... good to see the tank is coming along. This thread is starting to > > have a whole new meaning to getting tanked! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month=2 > 0and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:48 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > I used to march in the Metairie Mardi Gras parades with one of those geeky > > dance teams (TMI!) As for the bars -- Ms. Maes, TJ Quills were favorites, > > and Fat Harrys, Cooter Brown's, the Maple Leaf for awesome Cajun music. Too > > many nights in those places to count. And then I remember Nick's Bar...it > > had all those weird mixed drinks. I loved that place. > > > > I did know that Seton had become a senior living facility. Bummer. > > > > As for the tank, reports are that nitrites are down to .25. Amen already! > > Checking nitrates... > > > > Thanks so much. > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long > > before it was > > > an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called > > Sacred > > > Heart and I only went there for first grade bef > > ore migrating out to > > > the burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into > > > senior citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's > > the > > > last > > news I > > > real > ly heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't > > really paid > > > attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened > > after > > > Katrina. > > > > > > Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult > > > playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you > > had to > > > spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars > > around > > > Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. > > > ;-) Which uptown bar was your favorite? > > > > > > OK... back to the fish. LOL > > > > > > It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant > > PWC's. > > > That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies > > as well. > > > I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer > > before > > > you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only > > have to > > > do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the > > > nitrates and other water quality issues in check. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoog roups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just > > behind > > > PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high > > school, > > > Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. > > (And here's > > > a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato > > > for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) > > > > > > It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. > > But > > > I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day > > > to return, that's for sure. > > > > > > In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding > > at > > > around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I > > think Gary > > > is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. > > > Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can > > do > > > without. > > > > > > Thanks again > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in > > > Mid-City, near > > > > > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but > > > then > > > isn't > > > > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For > > > others > > > > reading t > > his, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > > > > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the > > > Westbank but > > > > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > > > > > > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up > > > between PWC's > > > > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating > > > bacteria > > > > are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the > > > nitrites > > > > in > > > check. > > > > > > > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > > > > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > > > > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about > > > > snacks they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper > > > > shell > > growth. > > > > If > > > you have > > > > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium > > > Carbonate > > > > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > > > > above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:30:23 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours

I keep MelaFix and PimaFix since they both have long shelf lives as long as they are kept tightly capped. I still have some Jungle Brand antibacterial and antiparasite food left over from when I adopted some sick fish a while back but I wouldn't keep it on hand unless I had a LOT of tanks and fish since I will likely lose most of the food in these bottles to expiration issues. If those other meds have a long shelf life (several years), then I guess it's not bad but I don't think they are needed as a general rule unless someone has a fish room and/or are getting their MTS (multiple tank syndrome) fixes (i.e.-adding lots of new tanks). ;-) On a side note, I never really thought of Stress-Coat as a medicine. It's touted more as a dechlor with added Aloe Vera and slime coat enhancers and mostly marketed towards new fish keepers... who may not realize it's not needed. I wouldn't use it as a dechlor product since there is no need for those other things being dumped into a tank on a continual basis and plain table salt is a better stress reliever and slime coat enhancer. The chloride in salt increases gill function and efficiency so the fish can breath easier and get more O2 from each breath and the sodium is a mild irritant so the fish create a thicker slime coat on their own. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:39:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31441	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank

The eggs are a clear slime and they lay it on everything. Because it is so clear, it is really hard to see in the water. If you have a HOB filter, remove it and empty the reservoir and I would be you can see the slime I am talking about. I have made some crude cleaning brushes from old toothbrushes to reach those little nooks and crannies in the filters when I clean them. As far as the egg laying cycle, I cannot say i know anything about it. My estimate is that they are laying eggs all the time. The only way that I am absolutely sure I have removed all traces of snails in a tank is to drain it, clean it, bleach it and start over. I did put in a clown loach in one snail infested tank and after many vacuums and harvesting of snails, the problem has gone away. They will eat snail eggs. It takes a few months, but it will work. Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: alambiet@... Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:01:52 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Restarting a tank Can I ask you something....again, most websites don't really address how these nuisance snails multiply....are they eating and laying eggs all over or do they tend to drop the eggs on decorations only..and are they born mature enough to multiply? I had hoped that I had caught my population early and I've vacuumed the gravel so many times my fish want to revolt, so I had hoped I might have taken the bulk of the eggs. I guess what I want to know more about is their egg-laying cycle so I can interrupt it......any thoughts? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote: > > > I have found the only way that I can really get rid of the problem snails is to trap as many of them as possible by floating a lettuce leaf on the surface over night and then harvesting them off first thing in the morning. This will get rid of the snails although it takes some time. It will not get rid of their eggs that have been laid in your HOB filter, on decorations, on the tank walls. The eggs are a clear jelly-like substance and can best be removed by hot water and bleach from your filter reservoir. I clean all my decorations with bleach by soaking them in a bleach solution in the sink for about 90 minutes than rinse well and add some de-chlor to make them safe again. Just removing the snails will not slove the problem... you gotta get the eggs too. JMO > > Grey > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: va22_vyshys@... > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:26:00 +0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Restarting a tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be perfectly honest getting rid of the fish will not get rid of the > > snails. I too have had the snail population overload and I've found 2 > > remedies to the problem. If you plan on re-doing everything then > > replacing the gravel will completely wipe them out (well it should.) Or > > you can trap them like I did. Get some algae wafers and toss a couple > > in the tank overnight, and when you wake in the morning scoop them out > > with your fish net. That worked for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31442	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank

Hi Robb, First let me state there is nothing wrong with your pH of 7.5. For the majority of common tropical fish, that is a perfect pH. Second, I don't think you need to start fresh unless you want to change out your gravel and redo your decorations. Even this is best done slowly do you don't disrupt the ecology of the tank too much, too fast. Three things that would be helpful. 1) Do you have a Master Test Kit for testing your water? These are very helpful and I consider them a necessity for long term success. 2) Your tap water baseline numbers for pH, GH and KH and you might as well test the tap for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates also (See my blog article, "Establishing Your Tap Water Baseline". 3) Your tank water test results for the same tests. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you can get the API Freshwater Master Test Kit for around $15.00 at PetsMart.com and if you print the page, the local PetsMart stores will match the online price. DrsFosterSmith.com also has them on sale right now for around that same price. This $15.00 investment will last you at least a year, even with frequent testing. It's good to buy a new kit yearly as the testing chemicals can go bad. Are you vacuuming your gravel as part of your tank maintenance? If not, you should start and use push the siphon tube down into the gravel and leave it until the water is coming up the tube clear before moving to the next spot. Snails are opportunistic breeders and will usually only become a major issue in a tank that has too much uneaten food, etc. on the bottom. This excess detritus is likely the cause of your algae as well. Siphon-vacuuming the gravel will also get many of the snails and once you have most of the "bed" of snails removed, you can turn to simple snail traps like a slice of cucumber to start getting the rest of them. Tell us more about your tank as far as what kind of fish and how many you have. Do you have live plants? I'm guessing yes, since that's how most snails hitchhike into a tank. How long has it been set up? Have you had any problems with sick or dying fish? Since you mentioned you are a novice, I would also recommend that you take one or both of the free online fish keeping tutorials that I have linked on my blog page, "A to Z of Fish Keeping". While on that page, also read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you can make sure you aren't making some of the rookie mistakes with your filter maintenance. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robb Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Restarting a tank Hello all, I currently have been looking at my tank and seeing that it's honestly getting into sad shape. Not due to neglect, but due to not being as knowledgeable as I should have been when I originally started. I've come to a point or realization where I think I'd like to 'restart' on my tank, because I need to start fresh and do things right. I have a bed of snails on the 'floor' of my 29 Gallon tank, I'm having Algae build up issues, and my fish don't seem too happy. I know right now that my pH is a bit high (roughly 7.5 I think), but other than that I don't know much chemically about the tank as I'm still quite the novice. So my question(s) are: If I get completely rid of everything and start fresh will the snails go away? What fish can truly happily enjoy the pH of my water? Other than that I'll happily take other suggestions. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 10:44:39 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31443	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Still no ammonia spike from the molly

I've never had a problem with a dead fish being in any of my tanks for very long but I would imagine it would take several days or longer for the body to start decomposing to the point where it starts fouling the water. Have you noticed the other fish not being hungry or being fat and happy even when you haven't fed them? It's very common for fish to nibble on dead fish until it's just a few bones.. partly as food and it's probably God's way of keeping the dead fish from just decaying and messing up the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Still no ammonia spike from the molly So my water perameters are all still good in the 10 gallon. If the missing molly was dead in there how long until an ammonia spike shows up? I've searched again and cannot find anything so I'm hoping maybe she just jumped out. I dont want to be upsetting the prego molly by digging anymore in the tank, but then again I dont want the ammonia levels to get outta wack either. Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 10:48:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank

Also, when cleaning with a 10% bleach solution (of 10% sodium hypochlorite), porous things or things with lots of cracks and crevices should be allowed to air dry for at least 24-48 hours to make sure any chlorine has a chance to evaporate. For smooth surfaces like glass, rinsing will usually do the trick. Even a very minute amount of chlorine (from the bleach) is enough to do major harm to the fish and biological filtration of the tank. Since you soaked them for 90 minutes, if you are going to re-soak them in a dechlor solution, it should soak for at least 90 minutes also to give the dechlor the same chance of penetrating the item as you did the bleach solution. For example, when "cleaning" or recharging my Purigen chemical filter media, I use a cup of bleach and a cup of water to soak one of the Purigen packets for 24 hours to clean the Purigen. Then I rinse it and use two cups of water and two capfuls (20ml) of dechlor in with the two cups of water and soak the Purigen for another 24 hours. Even though SeaChem doesn't require it, I still allow the Purigen packet to dry out for another 24 hours to make sure I've removed all of the chlorine. If you smell an item cleaned with a bleach solution and smell any chlorine, it's not ready to be put in the tank yet. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Greymane Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 4:16 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Restarting a tank I have found the only way that I can really get rid of the problem snails is to trap as many of them as possible by floating a lettuce leaf on the surface over night and then harvesting them off first thing in the morning. This will get rid of the snails although it takes some time. It will not get rid of their eggs that have been laid in your HOB filter, on decorations, on the tank walls. The eggs are a clear jelly-like substance and can best be removed by hot water and bleach from your filter reservoir. I clean all my decorations with bleach by soaking them in a bleach solution in the sink for about 90 minutes than rinse well and add some de-chlor to make them safe again. Just removing the snails will not slove the problem... you gotta get the eggs too. JMO Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> From: va22_vyshys@... <mailto:va22_vyshys%40yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:26:00 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Restarting a tank To be perfectly honest getting rid of the fish will not get rid of the snails. I too have had the snail population overload and I've found 2 remedies to the problem. If you plan on re-doing everything then replacing the gravel will completely wipe them out (well it should.) Or you can trap them like I did. Get some algae wafers and toss a couple in the tank overnight, and when you wake in the morning scoop them out with your fish net. That worked for me. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 10:58:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31445	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: pH and PWC

I guess if you are really up to doing tank maintenance first thing in the morning it wouldn't hurt and the excess CO2 in your well water (the likely reason the pH is lower right out the tap) would be utilized by the plants during the day. And yes it was me that mentioned that the changing pH levels as a result of CO2 levels in planted tank does not seem to affect the fish. This has been discussed many, many times in planted tank forums. It's not uncommon for the pH to go up and down by .5 to 1.0 in a planted tank and this drastic of a pH drop, under other circumstances would be very stressful and possibly deadly to the fish if caused by chemicals but when it's due to the CO2 level (technically a chemical also), it doesn't seem to affect the fish at all. Another of God's little mysteries. Certainly, the nitrifying bacteria do best in water with sufficient O2 levels but as long as the fish are not showing O2 deprivation issues (gasping at the surface, lethargy, etc.), then I think there would be sufficient O2 levels in the tank to supply the nitrifying bacteria as well. Just because water has a higher CO2 level, does not mean it doesn't have sufficient O2 levels also... and with your heavily filtered tank, you likely have plenty of surface agitation where the water has plenty of O2 and very low CO2 levels... although Goldfish do put out lots of CO2. I have plenty of surface agitation in my goldfish tank but my plants do quite well in there also so there is sufficient CO2 levels also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH and PWC The pH of my tank water increases from 7.4 in the morning (8 am) to 7.8 in the evening (7 pm). My tap water is from a private well and the pH out of the tap is 7.0 with no chlorine or chloramine. Would it not be best to do my weekly PWC (25%) and filter maintenance in the early morning to reduce the change in pH if I wish to use tap water? I have a total of 4 filters (2 canisters and 2 HOB) on a 90 gallon tank that I alternate cleaning 1 each week. I clean the filters at midweek and do the PWC on weekend so I am not cleaning a filter on the same day I do PWC and gravel vacuuming. In an earlier post I believe Lenny stated that pH increase due to CO2 out gassing did not seem to affect the fish. I wonder if this is not also the case with the good bacteria in the filters. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/16/2008 9:40:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:06:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Restarting a tank

They pretty much lay them on anything and everything they can get to. They aren't born mature enough to breed but it doesn't take long. Different snails have different gestation periods so it would really depend on the species. If you have a glass tank, use a glass scraper to scrape the four sides and then vacuum again. As someone else mentioned, some of the common nuisance snails will lay their eggs in little gelatinous clusters (less than a 1/4" diameter) so they can be hidden quite easily. In your case, with only two plants, I wouldn't panic or overly worry. Since you are keeping the tank in very good shape, there's not a lot of uneaten food so they'll die off and not continue to breed without a food source. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Restarting a tank Can I ask you something....again, most websites don't really address how these nuisance snails multiply....are they eating and laying eggs all over or do they tend to drop the eggs on decorations only..and are they born mature enough to multiply? I had hoped that I had caught my population early and I've vacuumed the gravel so many times my fish want to revolt, so I had hoped I might have taken the bulk of the eggs. I guess what I want to know more about is their egg-laying cycle so I can interrupt it......any thoughts? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote: > > > I have found the only way that I can really get rid of the problem snails is to trap as many of them as possible by floating a lettuce leaf on the surface over night and then harvesting them off first thing in the morning. This will get rid of the snails although it takes some time. It will not get rid of their eggs that have been laid in your HOB filter, on decorations, on the tank walls. The eggs are a clear jelly-like substance and can best be removed by hot water and bleach from your filter reservoir. I clean all my decorations with bleach by soaking them in a bleach solution in the sink for about 90 minutes than rinse well and add some de-chlor to make them safe again. Just removing the snails will not slove the problem... you gotta get the eggs too. JMO > > Grey > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: va22_vyshys@... > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:26:00 +0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Restarting a tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be perfectly honest getting rid of the fish will not get rid of the > > snails. I too have had the snail population overload and I've found 2 > > remedies to the problem. If you plan on re-doing everything then > > replacing the gravel will completely wipe them out (well it should.) > Or > > you can trap them like I did. Get some algae wafers and toss a couple > > in the tank overnight, and when you wake in the morning scoop them out > > with your fish net. That worked for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:30:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:45:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31447	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Jan1213 tank suggestions (was: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in y

Jan1213, You are kind of at your stocking limits with a single comet in a 46G tank. You could probably add a couple of Mystery Snails or Apple Snails for some added life and if you are willing to do more frequent PWC's (partial water changes), you might be able to fit one of the dwarf pleco's like a clown pleco but I wouldn't do this since it would just mean that you would have to double your tank maintenance. The Mystery or Apple snails wouldn't be very much of a bioload burden. You could also go with a school of minnow type fish like zebra danios, white cloud mountain minnows (WCMM's), but be warned that some of them might become snacks for your comet if he's not getting enough fish food. If you decide to go with a school of cool/cold water minnow type fish, also get some floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc. and some rooted plants to give the fish some hiding places when needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours Thanks Chris for the infor...I am courious to see what everyone else has...I don't have one...but will after this post....I have one comet goldfish in a 46 ga tank I would like suggestions to get her a friend. In a message dated 10/17/2008 9:22:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, chris_o_p@... <mailto:chris_o_p%40yahoo.com> writes: What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002 <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002> ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:50:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:54:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Bill, As a general rule, using distilled water isn't good for the fish since it doesn't have any of the life sustaining trace minerals and elements in it. In your case, if you are mixing it with your well water to lessen the hardness of the water, then that's OK but if using pure distilled water, you should probably be adding a supplement to the water like Kent's RO Right. Have you done a baseline test on your water yet to find out the water parameters (right out the tap, 24 hours, 48 hours)? Testing it right out the tap will usually not give you the true water parameters. As far as test kits, one of the more common ones you'll see mentioned in forums is the API Master Test Kit but many people have issues with discerning some of the mild color changes on some of the tests. \\Steve// out here recommends the Kordon Aqua Tru Master Test Kit http://www.novalek.com/kordon/aquatru/overview.htm. It's not cheap like the API kit but I've looked at online info about it and see why it's better. I did find some online sale prices around $60.00 for the Kordon kit where the API kit can be had for around $15.00. I do have a blog article called "Everyone should have a decent Master Test Kit" but I need to update it with \\Steve's// recommendation. I might do that right now since I'm home for lunch and some emailing. You should have test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (high and low range) and having GH and KH tests are also very good to have and may be needed with your water. If your water is really hard and alkaline (high pH), then you have perfect water for many of the African Cichlids that are commonly available. Here's a good article about hard water chemistry http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_chemistry.php and a list of reference articles about Cichlids including some "Cookie Cutter" setups for tank sizes and recommended fish stocking levels for a greater chance at success. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php You'll see that many people have to work very hard to try and get their water up to the parameters that you might have naturally. Going with fish that naturally do well in your tap water source is the easiest way to go so you don't have to keep fooling with the water chemistry so much. As far as my blog, I do put a lot of emphasis on knowing your water chemistry and water testing, the nitrogen cycle, cycling, stocking levels, etc., as those are the most common newbie problem areas. If people can get the right information early on, they'll be more successful and happy fish keepers. I've never had a lot of fish die but I would imagine it's quite daunting to the new aquarist who is having unexplained fish deaths. I started out with three backyard ponds when I bought a house, many years ago, that came with them up and running and they were mostly self-sufficient (other than feeding) so I didn't need to know much until that next summer came along and I had green water issues, etc. and started learning more about properly caring for them. When I got rid of the ex-wife and that house (too much work for a single man on the prowl again.. lol), I decided to go with an aquarium... umm.. make that aquriumS since I got MTS early on partially due to overstocking my first tank and having to go out and buy a second tank in the first month in the hobby. I was fortunate that I bought a Master Test Kit with my first tank, as I learned that having one was important from my pond keeping years. Of course, like most, I didn't have a clue about fishless cycling so I was doing the daily and twice daily PWC's for that first month to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low enough but I never lost a fish and still have two of my original four goldfish. I did lose one to illness (that I shouldn't have even bought but I felt sorry for the little guy because he had a slight deformity) and I lost a second goldfish a couple of years later when he got a piece of gravel jammed in his mouth while I was at work all day. This isn't uncommon for goldfish so make sure you have either too BIG or small enough gravel so when they are foraging for food, this can't happen. I rehomed my tropical fish tanks after Hurricane Katrina since I didn't have room or time for all of my tanks after Katrina. After spending the past 5 to 6 years in forums helping others, I decided to start up my blog and try to have lots of preemptive and preventative information and I also have articles for the most common newbie issues so I wouldn't have to constantly re-type the same information over and over. Now I can just point them to one of my many articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol’ bill here; I have been living over at Lenny’s web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I’d love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I’d like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven’t even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn’t lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I’d really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with “Lenny” from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I’d appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What’s my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I’d like to get started before I’m too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:32:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31449	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Jan1213 tank suggestions (was: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's...

Well thanks for the kind words but.....I did the stupid human thing when I first set my tank up. Put in 3 comets then one week later added 2...all died but the girl I have now....sorta afraid to add again but I think she's lonely....I put the tank up in May......I still might wait awhile...thanks for all the fish info... I am not really comfortable about snails they rapidly produce...I bought a plant that had snails and it took me weeks to get rid of them In a message dated 10/17/2008 1:33:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Jan1213, You are kind of at your stocking limits with a single comet in a 46G tank. You could probably add a couple of Mystery Snails or Apple Snails for some added life and if you are willing to do more frequent PWC's (partial water changes), you might be able to fit one of the dwarf pleco's like a clown pleco but I wouldn't do this since it would just mean that you would have to double your tank maintenance. The Mystery or Apple snails wouldn't be very much of a bioload burden. You could also go with a school of minnow type fish like zebra danios, white cloud mountain minnows (WCMM's), but be warned that some of them might become snacks for your comet if he's not getting enough fish food. If you decide to go with a school of cool/cold water minnow type fish, also get some floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc. and some rooted plants to give the fish some hiding places when needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:35 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours Thanks Chris for the infor...I am courious to see what everyone else has...I don't have one...but will after this post....I have one comet goldfish in a 46 ga tank I would like suggestions to get her a friend. In a message dated 10/17/2008 9:22:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _chris_o_p@..._ (mailto:chris_o_p@...) <mailto:chris_mailto:chrismai> writes: What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA ************************<WBR>**New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (_http://local.http://lohttp://lochttp://local.<WBh_ (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) <_http://local.http://lohttp://lochttp://local.<WBh_ (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) > ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <_http://www.avast.htt_ (http://www.avast.com/) > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:50:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <_http://www.avast.htt_ (http://www.avast.com/) > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:54:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31450	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Lenny, � As for mixing the well water with distilled water, I never thought of it but your points, as always, are well taken. � The purchase of a testing kit seems to come next but a bit pricey so we�ll have to hold on a bit. � The bad news is after doing a lot of research this morning, it seems my water problem could cost thousands to fix.� Imagine finding all of this out after my wife and I put two plumbers kids through college with some of the pipe-replacement plumbing bills we�ve had for the last 30 years! � I called the lab and after explaining what I was after; they gave me a few practical ideas from what they have already found dealing with other people in my area.� Acid Neutralizers are necessary followed by the use of a water softener of some sort.� In addition to all of this; they reminded me, after I brought up my wanting to keep Tropical Fish, that the Ph factor of the water will most certainly change with the use of these treatments.� Apparently any one or both of them will cause changes to water Ph and monitoring will not only become important but absolutely necessary to the health and well being of the fish. � African Cichlids are probably the only fish I have never kept, but always wanted too.�� I agree with you on the water chemistry, I have always found that once you start fooling around doctoring it up or trying to change it, your condemned to do it forever.� I�ve kept very unusual fish and some that got so large for my tanks they had to be removed by �landing nets� rather that the type used for regular tropical fishkeeping. � I'll keep you posted, � Bill � � � --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 1:32 PM Bill, As a general rule, using distilled water isn't good for the fish since it doesn't have any of the life sustaining trace minerals and elements in it. In your case, if you are mixing it with your well water to lessen the hardness of the water, then that's OK but if using pure distilled water, you should probably be adding a supplement to the water like Kent's RO Right. Have you done a baseline test on your water yet to find out the water parameters (right out the tap, 24 hours, 48 hours)? Testing it right out the tap will usually not give you the true water parameters. As far as test kits, one of the more common ones you'll see mentioned in forums is the API Master Test Kit but many people have issues with discerning some of the mild color changes on some of the tests. \\Steve// out here recommends the Kordon Aqua Tru Master Test Kit http://www.novalek. com/kordon/ aquatru/overview .htm. It's not cheap like the API kit but I've looked at online info about it and see why it's better. I did find some online sale prices around $60.00 for the Kordon kit where the API kit can be had for around $15.00. I do have a blog article called "Everyone should have a decent Master Test Kit" but I need to update it with \\Steve's// recommendation. I might do that right now since I'm home for lunch and some emailing. You should have test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (high and low range) and having GH and KH tests are also very good to have and may be needed with your water. If your water is really hard and alkaline (high pH), then you have perfect water for many of the African Cichlids that are commonly available. Here's a good article about hard water chemistry http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ water_chemistry. php and a list of reference articles about Cichlids including some "Cookie Cutter" setups for tank sizes and recommended fish stocking levels for a greater chance at success. http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ quick_reference_ list.php You'll see that many people have to work very hard to try and get their water up to the parameters that you might have naturally. Going with fish that naturally do well in your tap water source is the easiest way to go so you don't have to keep fooling with the water chemistry so much. As far as my blog, I do put a lot of emphasis on knowing your water chemistry and water testing, the nitrogen cycle, cycling, stocking levels, etc., as those are the most common newbie problem areas. If people can get the right information early on, they'll be more successful and happy fish keepers. I've never had a lot of fish die but I would imagine it's quite daunting to the new aquarist who is having unexplained fish deaths. I started out with three backyard ponds when I bought a house, many years ago, that came with them up and running and they were mostly self-sufficient (other than feeding) so I didn't need to know much until that next summer came along and I had green water issues, etc. and started learning more about properly caring for them. When I got rid of the ex-wife and that house (too much work for a single man on the prowl again.. lol), I decided to go with an aquarium... umm.. make that aquriumS since I got MTS early on partially due to overstocking my first tank and having to go out and buy a second tank in the first month in the hobby. I was fortunate that I bought a Master Test Kit with my first tank, as I learned that having one was important from my pond keeping years. Of course, like most, I didn't have a clue about fishless cycling so I was doing the daily and twice daily PWC's for that first month to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low enough but I never lost a fish and still have two of my original four goldfish. I did lose one to illness (that I shouldn't have even bought but I felt sorry for the little guy because he had a slight deformity) and I lost a second goldfish a couple of years later when he got a piece of gravel jammed in his mouth while I was at work all day. This isn't uncommon for goldfish so make sure you have either too BIG or small enough gravel so when they are foraging for food, this can't happen. I rehomed my tropical fish tanks after Hurricane Katrina since I didn't have room or time for all of my tanks after Katrina. After spending the past 5 to 6 years in forums helping others, I decided to start up my blog and try to have lots of preemptive and preventative information and I also have articles for the most common newbie issues so I wouldn't have to constantly re-type the same information over and over. Now I can just point them to one of my many articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol� bill here; I have been living over at Lenny�s web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I�d love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I�d like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven�t even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn�t lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I�d really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with �Lenny� from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I�d appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What�s my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I�d like to get started before I�m too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:32:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31451	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Jan1213 tank suggestions (was: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's...

That's why I recommended either the Mystery Snail or the Apple Snail. They are not the prolific breeders like the common nuisance snails that hitchhike in on plants. Apple Snails and Mystery Snails are considered pet snails in the hobby. In fact, Mystery Snails and Apple Snails are sexed (male or female... where most other snails are hermaphroditic or asexual) so you need a pair of Apple/Mystery snails to breed them, as a general rule. If they do breed (or if you happen to get a female that is already storing fertilized eggs from a recent breeding), they'll lay a large clutch of eggs above the water line and the incubation period is 2-4 weeks so you can simply use a spoon to remove them and you won't have the problem with lots of baby snails if you don't want them. Here's more on Apple Snail care and Mystery Snails are basically the same except a smaller cousin to the Apple Snail. Apple snails can get to the size of a baseball. http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Jan1213 tank suggestions (was: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's... Well thanks for the kind words but.....I did the stupid human thing when I first set my tank up. Put in 3 comets then one week later added 2...all died but the girl I have now....sorta afraid to add again but I think she's lonely....I put the tank up in May......I still might wait awhile...thanks for all the fish info... I am not really comfortable about snails they rapidly produce...I bought a plant that had snails and it took me weeks to get rid of them In a message dated 10/17/2008 1:33:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Jan1213, You are kind of at your stocking limits with a single comet in a 46G tank. You could probably add a couple of Mystery Snails or Apple Snails for some added life and if you are willing to do more frequent PWC's (partial water changes), you might be able to fit one of the dwarf pleco's like a clown pleco but I wouldn't do this since it would just mean that you would have to double your tank maintenance. The Mystery or Apple snails wouldn't be very much of a bioload burden. You could also go with a school of minnow type fish like zebra danios, white cloud mountain minnows (WCMM's), but be warned that some of them might become snacks for your comet if he's not getting enough fish food. If you decide to go with a school of cool/cold water minnow type fish, also get some floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc. and some rooted plants to give the fish some hiding places when needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ <http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_> (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> ) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ) ] On Behalf Of _jan1213@... <mailto:_jan1213%40aol.jan> _ (mailto:jan1213@... <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> ) Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:35 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours Thanks Chris for the infor...I am courious to see what everyone else has...I don't have one...but will after this post....I have one comet goldfish in a 46 ga tank I would like suggestions to get her a friend. In a message dated 10/17/2008 9:22:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _chris_o_p@... <mailto:_chris_o_p%40yahoo.chr> _ (mailto:chris_o_p@... <mailto:chris_o_p%40yahoo.com> ) <mailto:chris_mailto:chrismai> writes: What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 1:26:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Your other option is to build a BIG pond and get you some of them "little" Koi fish. You know I'm joking about "little" since they grow to 36". They also like the kind of water you have. I wouldn't make any decisions about your water or fish until you've had a chance to do your baseline testing to make sure it's as bad (or as good for some fish) as you think. It's imperative that you not just rely on out-the-tap test results as the water parameters can change quite a bit after 24 and 48 hours... and then the tank's ecology will change it also... almost always lowering the pH unless you have something in the tank leaching to raise the pH. But if your worse fears are true and you have really hard and alkaline water, then it looks like you're a future African Cichlid keeper. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Lenny, As for mixing the well water with distilled water, I never thought of it but your points, as always, are well taken. The purchase of a testing kit seems to come next but a bit pricey so we'll have to hold on a bit. The bad news is after doing a lot of research this morning, it seems my water problem could cost thousands to fix. Imagine finding all of this out after my wife and I put two plumbers kids through college with some of the pipe-replacement plumbing bills we've had for the last 30 years! I called the lab and after explaining what I was after; they gave me a few practical ideas from what they have already found dealing with other people in my area. Acid Neutralizers are necessary followed by the use of a water softener of some sort. In addition to all of this; they reminded me, after I brought up my wanting to keep Tropical Fish, that the Ph factor of the water will most certainly change with the use of these treatments. Apparently any one or both of them will cause changes to water Ph and monitoring will not only become important but absolutely necessary to the health and well being of the fish. African Cichlids are probably the only fish I have never kept, but always wanted too. I agree with you on the water chemistry, I have always found that once you start fooling around doctoring it up or trying to change it, your condemned to do it forever. I've kept very unusual fish and some that got so large for my tanks they had to be removed by "landing nets" rather that the type used for regular tropical fishkeeping. I'll keep you posted, Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 1:32 PM Bill, As a general rule, using distilled water isn't good for the fish since it doesn't have any of the life sustaining trace minerals and elements in it. In your case, if you are mixing it with your well water to lessen the hardness of the water, then that's OK but if using pure distilled water, you should probably be adding a supplement to the water like Kent's RO Right. Have you done a baseline test on your water yet to find out the water parameters (right out the tap, 24 hours, 48 hours)? Testing it right out the tap will usually not give you the true water parameters. As far as test kits, one of the more common ones you'll see mentioned in forums is the API Master Test Kit but many people have issues with discerning some of the mild color changes on some of the tests. \\Steve// out here recommends the Kordon Aqua Tru Master Test Kit http://www.novalek. com/kordon/ aquatru/overview .htm. It's not cheap like the API kit but I've looked at online info about it and see why it's better. I did find some online sale prices around $60.00 for the Kordon kit where the API kit can be had for around $15.00. I do have a blog article called "Everyone should have a decent Master Test Kit" but I need to update it with \\Steve's// recommendation. I might do that right now since I'm home for lunch and some emailing. You should have test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (high and low range) and having GH and KH tests are also very good to have and may be needed with your water. If your water is really hard and alkaline (high pH), then you have perfect water for many of the African Cichlids that are commonly available. Here's a good article about hard water chemistry http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ water_chemistry. php and a list of reference articles about Cichlids including some "Cookie Cutter" setups for tank sizes and recommended fish stocking levels for a greater chance at success. http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ quick_reference_ list.php You'll see that many people have to work very hard to try and get their water up to the parameters that you might have naturally. Going with fish that naturally do well in your tap water source is the easiest way to go so you don't have to keep fooling with the water chemistry so much. As far as my blog, I do put a lot of emphasis on knowing your water chemistry and water testing, the nitrogen cycle, cycling, stocking levels, etc., as those are the most common newbie problem areas. If people can get the right information early on, they'll be more successful and happy fish keepers. I've never had a lot of fish die but I would imagine it's quite daunting to the new aquarist who is having unexplained fish deaths. I started out with three backyard ponds when I bought a house, many years ago, that came with them up and running and they were mostly self-sufficient (other than feeding) so I didn't need to know much until that next summer came along and I had green water issues, etc. and started learning more about properly caring for them. When I got rid of the ex-wife and that house (too much work for a single man on the prowl again.. lol), I decided to go with an aquarium... umm.. make that aquriumS since I got MTS early on partially due to overstocking my first tank and having to go out and buy a second tank in the first month in the hobby. I was fortunate that I bought a Master Test Kit with my first tank, as I learned that having one was important from my pond keeping years. Of course, like most, I didn't have a clue about fishless cycling so I was doing the daily and twice daily PWC's for that first month to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low enough but I never lost a fish and still have two of my original four goldfish. I did lose one to illness (that I shouldn't have even bought but I felt sorry for the little guy because he had a slight deformity) and I lost a second goldfish a couple of years later when he got a piece of gravel jammed in his mouth while I was at work all day. This isn't uncommon for goldfish so make sure you have either too BIG or small enough gravel so when they are foraging for food, this can't happen. I rehomed my tropical fish tanks after Hurricane Katrina since I didn't have room or time for all of my tanks after Katrina. After spending the past 5 to 6 years in forums helping others, I decided to start up my blog and try to have lots of preemptive and preventative information and I also have articles for the most common newbie issues so I wouldn't have to constantly re-type the same information over and over. Now I can just point them to one of my many articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 1:37:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31453	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Oh yeah... on a side note. I've been looking all around and I still haven't found Bill hiding anywhere in my home... regardless of the title of this thread. I did notice my stock of frozen burritos have been mysteriously going down. I'll have to start using the smell test to find Bill soon! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Lenny, As for mixing the well water with distilled water, I never thought of it but your points, as always, are well taken. The purchase of a testing kit seems to come next but a bit pricey so we’ll have to hold on a bit. The bad news is after doing a lot of research this morning, it seems my water problem could cost thousands to fix. Imagine finding all of this out after my wife and I put two plumbers kids through college with some of the pipe-replacement plumbing bills we’ve had for the last 30 years! I called the lab and after explaining what I was after; they gave me a few practical ideas from what they have already found dealing with other people in my area. Acid Neutralizers are necessary followed by the use of a water softener of some sort. In addition to all of this; they reminded me, after I brought up my wanting to keep Tropical Fish, that the Ph factor of the water will most certainly change with the use of these treatments. Apparently any one or both of them will cause changes to water Ph and monitoring will not only become important but absolutely necessary to the health and well being of the fish. African Cichlids are probably the only fish I have never kept, but always wanted too. I agree with you on the water chemistry, I have always found that once you start fooling around doctoring it up or trying to change it, your condemned to do it forever. I’ve kept very unusual fish and some that got so large for my tanks they had to be removed by “landing nets” rather that the type used for regular tropical fishkeeping. I'll keep you posted, Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 1:32 PM Bill, As a general rule, using distilled water isn't good for the fish since it doesn't have any of the life sustaining trace minerals and elements in it. In your case, if you are mixing it with your well water to lessen the hardness of the water, then that's OK but if using pure distilled water, you should probably be adding a supplement to the water like Kent's RO Right. Have you done a baseline test on your water yet to find out the water parameters (right out the tap, 24 hours, 48 hours)? Testing it right out the tap will usually not give you the true water parameters. As far as test kits, one of the more common ones you'll see mentioned in forums is the API Master Test Kit but many people have issues with discerning some of the mild color changes on some of the tests. \\Steve// out here recommends the Kordon Aqua Tru Master Test Kit http://www.novalek. com/kordon/ aquatru/overview .htm. It's not cheap like the API kit but I've looked at online info about it and see why it's better. I did find some online sale prices around $60.00 for the Kordon kit where the API kit can be had for around $15.00. I do have a blog article called "Everyone should have a decent Master Test Kit" but I need to update it with \\Steve's// recommendation. I might do that right now since I'm home for lunch and some emailing. You should have test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (high and low range) and having GH and KH tests are also very good to have and may be needed with your water. If your water is really hard and alkaline (high pH), then you have perfect water for many of the African Cichlids that are commonly available. Here's a good article about hard water chemistry http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ water_chemistry. php and a list of reference articles about Cichlids including some "Cookie Cutter" setups for tank sizes and recommended fish stocking levels for a greater chance at success. http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ quick_reference_ list.php You'll see that many people have to work very hard to try and get their water up to the parameters that you might have naturally. Going with fish that naturally do well in your tap water source is the easiest way to go so you don't have to keep fooling with the water chemistry so much. As far as my blog, I do put a lot of emphasis on knowing your water chemistry and water testing, the nitrogen cycle, cycling, stocking levels, etc., as those are the most common newbie problem areas. If people can get the right information early on, they'll be more successful and happy fish keepers. I've never had a lot of fish die but I would imagine it's quite daunting to the new aquarist who is having unexplained fish deaths. I started out with three backyard ponds when I bought a house, many years ago, that came with them up and running and they were mostly self-sufficient (other than feeding) so I didn't need to know much until that next summer came along and I had green water issues, etc. and started learning more about properly caring for them. When I got rid of the ex-wife and that house (too much work for a single man on the prowl again.. lol), I decided to go with an aquarium... umm.. make that aquriumS since I got MTS early on partially due to overstocking my first tank and having to go out and buy a second tank in the first month in the hobby. I was fortunate that I bought a Master Test Kit with my first tank, as I learned that having one was important from my pond keeping years. Of course, like most, I didn't have a clue about fishless cycling so I was doing the daily and twice daily PWC's for that first month to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low enough but I never lost a fish and still have two of my original four goldfish. I did lose one to illness (that I shouldn't have even bought but I felt sorry for the little guy because he had a slight deformity) and I lost a second goldfish a couple of years later when he got a piece of gravel jammed in his mouth while I was at work all day. This isn't uncommon for goldfish so make sure you have either too BIG or small enough gravel so when they are foraging for food, this can't happen. I rehomed my tropical fish tanks after Hurricane Katrina since I didn't have room or time for all of my tanks after Katrina. After spending the past 5 to 6 years in forums helping others, I decided to start up my blog and try to have lots of preemptive and preventative information and I also have articles for the most common newbie issues so I wouldn't have to constantly re-type the same information over and over. Now I can just point them to one of my many articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol’ bill here; I have been living over at Lenny’s web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I’d love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I’d like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven’t even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn’t lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I’d really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with “Lenny” from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I’d appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What’s my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I’d like to get started before I’m too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31454	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

An African Cichlid keeper?� Hey Len, I've been called worse! � The bad news?� You won�t find and African Cichlid within 100 miles of this place and that I can guarantee.� I�m afraid that I really will have to rely to mail order for that one. � Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 2:37 PM Your other option is to build a BIG pond and get you some of them "little" Koi fish. You know I'm joking about "little" since they grow to 36". They also like the kind of water you have. I wouldn't make any decisions about your water or fish until you've had a chance to do your baseline testing to make sure it's as bad (or as good for some fish) as you think. It's imperative that you not just rely on out-the-tap test results as the water parameters can change quite a bit after 24 and 48 hours... and then the tank's ecology will change it also... almost always lowering the pH unless you have something in the tank leaching to raise the pH. But if your worse fears are true and you have really hard and alkaline water, then it looks like you're a future African Cichlid keeper. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Lenny, As for mixing the well water with distilled water, I never thought of it but your points, as always, are well taken. The purchase of a testing kit seems to come next but a bit pricey so we'll have to hold on a bit. The bad news is after doing a lot of research this morning, it seems my water problem could cost thousands to fix. Imagine finding all of this out after my wife and I put two plumbers kids through college with some of the pipe-replacement plumbing bills we've had for the last 30 years! I called the lab and after explaining what I was after; they gave me a few practical ideas from what they have already found dealing with other people in my area. Acid Neutralizers are necessary followed by the use of a water softener of some sort. In addition to all of this; they reminded me, after I brought up my wanting to keep Tropical Fish, that the Ph factor of the water will most certainly change with the use of these treatments. Apparently any one or both of them will cause changes to water Ph and monitoring will not only become important but absolutely necessary to the health and well being of the fish. African Cichlids are probably the only fish I have never kept, but always wanted too. I agree with you on the water chemistry, I have always found that once you start fooling around doctoring it up or trying to change it, your condemned to do it forever. I've kept very unusual fish and some that got so large for my tanks they had to be removed by "landing nets" rather that the type used for regular tropical fishkeeping. I'll keep you posted, Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 1:32 PM Bill, As a general rule, using distilled water isn't good for the fish since it doesn't have any of the life sustaining trace minerals and elements in it. In your case, if you are mixing it with your well water to lessen the hardness of the water, then that's OK but if using pure distilled water, you should probably be adding a supplement to the water like Kent's RO Right. Have you done a baseline test on your water yet to find out the water parameters (right out the tap, 24 hours, 48 hours)? Testing it right out the tap will usually not give you the true water parameters. As far as test kits, one of the more common ones you'll see mentioned in forums is the API Master Test Kit but many people have issues with discerning some of the mild color changes on some of the tests. \\Steve// out here recommends the Kordon Aqua Tru Master Test Kit http://www.novalek. com/kordon/ aquatru/overview .htm. It's not cheap like the API kit but I've looked at online info about it and see why it's better. I did find some online sale prices around $60.00 for the Kordon kit where the API kit can be had for around $15.00. I do have a blog article called "Everyone should have a decent Master Test Kit" but I need to update it with \\Steve's// recommendation. I might do that right now since I'm home for lunch and some emailing. You should have test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (high and low range) and having GH and KH tests are also very good to have and may be needed with your water. If your water is really hard and alkaline (high pH), then you have perfect water for many of the African Cichlids that are commonly available. Here's a good article about hard water chemistry http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ water_chemistry. php and a list of reference articles about Cichlids including some "Cookie Cutter" setups for tank sizes and recommended fish stocking levels for a greater chance at success. http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ quick_reference_ list.php You'll see that many people have to work very hard to try and get their water up to the parameters that you might have naturally. Going with fish that naturally do well in your tap water source is the easiest way to go so you don't have to keep fooling with the water chemistry so much. As far as my blog, I do put a lot of emphasis on knowing your water chemistry and water testing, the nitrogen cycle, cycling, stocking levels, etc., as those are the most common newbie problem areas. If people can get the right information early on, they'll be more successful and happy fish keepers. I've never had a lot of fish die but I would imagine it's quite daunting to the new aquarist who is having unexplained fish deaths. I started out with three backyard ponds when I bought a house, many years ago, that came with them up and running and they were mostly self-sufficient (other than feeding) so I didn't need to know much until that next summer came along and I had green water issues, etc. and started learning more about properly caring for them. When I got rid of the ex-wife and that house (too much work for a single man on the prowl again.. lol), I decided to go with an aquarium... umm.. make that aquriumS since I got MTS early on partially due to overstocking my first tank and having to go out and buy a second tank in the first month in the hobby. I was fortunate that I bought a Master Test Kit with my first tank, as I learned that having one was important from my pond keeping years. Of course, like most, I didn't have a clue about fishless cycling so I was doing the daily and twice daily PWC's for that first month to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low enough but I never lost a fish and still have two of my original four goldfish. I did lose one to illness (that I shouldn't have even bought but I felt sorry for the little guy because he had a slight deformity) and I lost a second goldfish a couple of years later when he got a piece of gravel jammed in his mouth while I was at work all day. This isn't uncommon for goldfish so make sure you have either too BIG or small enough gravel so when they are foraging for food, this can't happen. I rehomed my tropical fish tanks after Hurricane Katrina since I didn't have room or time for all of my tanks after Katrina. After spending the past 5 to 6 years in forums helping others, I decided to start up my blog and try to have lots of preemptive and preventative information and I also have articles for the most common newbie issues so I wouldn't have to constantly re-type the same information over and over. Now I can just point them to one of my many articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 1:37:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31455	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Sorry Len..............................................!� Please believe me, at my size there isn�t much chance of me �hiding� anywhere!� � Besides it�s not your stock of frozen burritos you have to worry about but if you suddenly can�t find any Doritos or Salsa dip around I would have cause for concern. � Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 2:40 PM Oh yeah... on a side note. I've been looking all around and I still haven't found Bill hiding anywhere in my home... regardless of the title of this thread. I did notice my stock of frozen burritos have been mysteriously going down. I'll have to start using the smell test to find Bill soon! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Lenny, As for mixing the well water with distilled water, I never thought of it but your points, as always, are well taken. The purchase of a testing kit seems to come next but a bit pricey so we�ll have to hold on a bit. The bad news is after doing a lot of research this morning, it seems my water problem could cost thousands to fix. Imagine finding all of this out after my wife and I put two plumbers kids through college with some of the pipe-replacement plumbing bills we�ve had for the last 30 years! I called the lab and after explaining what I was after; they gave me a few practical ideas from what they have already found dealing with other people in my area. Acid Neutralizers are necessary followed by the use of a water softener of some sort. In addition to all of this; they reminded me, after I brought up my wanting to keep Tropical Fish, that the Ph factor of the water will most certainly change with the use of these treatments. Apparently any one or both of them will cause changes to water Ph and monitoring will not only become important but absolutely necessary to the health and well being of the fish. African Cichlids are probably the only fish I have never kept, but always wanted too. I agree with you on the water chemistry, I have always found that once you start fooling around doctoring it up or trying to change it, your condemned to do it forever. I�ve kept very unusual fish and some that got so large for my tanks they had to be removed by �landing nets� rather that the type used for regular tropical fishkeeping. I'll keep you posted, Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 1:32 PM Bill, As a general rule, using distilled water isn't good for the fish since it doesn't have any of the life sustaining trace minerals and elements in it. In your case, if you are mixing it with your well water to lessen the hardness of the water, then that's OK but if using pure distilled water, you should probably be adding a supplement to the water like Kent's RO Right. Have you done a baseline test on your water yet to find out the water parameters (right out the tap, 24 hours, 48 hours)? Testing it right out the tap will usually not give you the true water parameters. As far as test kits, one of the more common ones you'll see mentioned in forums is the API Master Test Kit but many people have issues with discerning some of the mild color changes on some of the tests. \\Steve// out here recommends the Kordon Aqua Tru Master Test Kit http://www.novalek. com/kordon/ aquatru/overview .htm. It's not cheap like the API kit but I've looked at online info about it and see why it's better. I did find some online sale prices around $60.00 for the Kordon kit where the API kit can be had for around $15.00. I do have a blog article called "Everyone should have a decent Master Test Kit" but I need to update it with \\Steve's// recommendation. I might do that right now since I'm home for lunch and some emailing. You should have test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (high and low range) and having GH and KH tests are also very good to have and may be needed with your water. If your water is really hard and alkaline (high pH), then you have perfect water for many of the African Cichlids that are commonly available. Here's a good article about hard water chemistry http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ water_chemistry. php and a list of reference articles about Cichlids including some "Cookie Cutter" setups for tank sizes and recommended fish stocking levels for a greater chance at success. http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ quick_reference_ list.php You'll see that many people have to work very hard to try and get their water up to the parameters that you might have naturally. Going with fish that naturally do well in your tap water source is the easiest way to go so you don't have to keep fooling with the water chemistry so much. As far as my blog, I do put a lot of emphasis on knowing your water chemistry and water testing, the nitrogen cycle, cycling, stocking levels, etc., as those are the most common newbie problem areas. If people can get the right information early on, they'll be more successful and happy fish keepers. I've never had a lot of fish die but I would imagine it's quite daunting to the new aquarist who is having unexplained fish deaths. I started out with three backyard ponds when I bought a house, many years ago, that came with them up and running and they were mostly self-sufficient (other than feeding) so I didn't need to know much until that next summer came along and I had green water issues, etc. and started learning more about properly caring for them. When I got rid of the ex-wife and that house (too much work for a single man on the prowl again.. lol), I decided to go with an aquarium... umm.. make that aquriumS since I got MTS early on partially due to overstocking my first tank and having to go out and buy a second tank in the first month in the hobby. I was fortunate that I bought a Master Test Kit with my first tank, as I learned that having one was important from my pond keeping years. Of course, like most, I didn't have a clue about fishless cycling so I was doing the daily and twice daily PWC's for that first month to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low enough but I never lost a fish and still have two of my original four goldfish. I did lose one to illness (that I shouldn't have even bought but I felt sorry for the little guy because he had a slight deformity) and I lost a second goldfish a couple of years later when he got a piece of gravel jammed in his mouth while I was at work all day. This isn't uncommon for goldfish so make sure you have either too BIG or small enough gravel so when they are foraging for food, this can't happen. I rehomed my tropical fish tanks after Hurricane Katrina since I didn't have room or time for all of my tanks after Katrina. After spending the past 5 to 6 years in forums helping others, I decided to start up my blog and try to have lots of preemptive and preventative information and I also have articles for the most common newbie issues so I wouldn't have to constantly re-type the same information over and over. Now I can just point them to one of my many articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol� bill here; I have been living over at Lenny�s web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I�d love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I�d like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven�t even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn�t lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I�d really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with �Lenny� from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I�d appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What�s my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I�d like to get started before I�m too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:32:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 12:32:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 1:28:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 1:40:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31456	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen (was: Restarting a tank)

I just purchased Purigen and was reading about recharging it - the instructions had a final step for freshwater use of soaking an additional 4 hours using 1 tbsp buffer per cup of water. (Discus Buffer, Neutral Regulator or Acid Buffer.) Do you skip this step Lenny? Barbara In a message dated 10/17/2008 12:55:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: For example, when "cleaning" or recharging my Purigen chemical filter media, I use a cup of bleach and a cup of water to soak one of the Purigen packets for 24 hours to clean the Purigen. Then I rinse it and use two cups of water and two capfuls (20ml) of dechlor in with the two cups of water and soak the Purigen for another 24 hours. Even though SeaChem doesn't require it, I still allow the Purigen packet to dry out for another 24 hours to make sure I've removed all of the chlorine. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31457	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Jan1213 tank suggestions (was: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's...

Oh, how cute............sure glad you folks are here. In a message dated 10/17/2008 2:29:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: That's why I recommended either the Mystery Snail or the Apple Snail. They are not the prolific breeders like the common nuisance snails that hitchhike in on plants. Apple Snails and Mystery Snails are considered pet snails in the hobby. In fact, Mystery Snails and Apple Snails are sexed (male or female... where most other snails are hermaphroditic or asexual) so you need a pair of Apple/Mystery snails to breed them, as a general rule. If they do breed (or if you happen to get a female that is already storing fertilized eggs from a recent breeding), they'll lay a large clutch of eggs above the water line and the incubation period is 2-4 weeks so you can simply use a spoon to remove them and you won't have the problem with lots of baby snails if you don't want them. Here's more on Apple Snail care and Mystery Snails are basically the same except a smaller cousin to the Apple Snail. Apple snails can get to the size of a baseball. _http://www.applesnahttp://www.applhttp://w_ (http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:00 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Jan1213 tank suggestions (was: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's... Well thanks for the kind words but.....I did the stupid human thing when I first set my tank up. Put in 3 comets then one week later added 2...all died but the girl I have now....sorta afraid to add again but I think she's lonely....I put the tank up in May......I still might wait awhile...thanks for all the fish info... I am not really comfortable about snails they rapidly produce...I bought a plant that had snails and it took me weeks to get rid of them In a message dated 10/17/2008 1:33:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _GoldLenny@..._ (mailto:GoldLenny@...) <mailto:GoldLenny%mailto:Gold> writes: Jan1213, You are kind of at your stocking limits with a single comet in a 46G tank. You could probably add a couple of Mystery Snails or Apple Snails for some added life and if you are willing to do more frequent PWC's (partial water changes), you might be able to fit one of the dwarf pleco's like a clown pleco but I wouldn't do this since it would just mean that you would have to double your tank maintenance. The Mystery or Apple snails wouldn't be very much of a bioload burden. You could also go with a school of minnow type fish like zebra danios, white cloud mountain minnows (WCMM's), but be warned that some of them might become snacks for your comet if he's not getting enough fish food. If you decide to go with a school of cool/cold water minnow type fish, also get some floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc. and some rooted plants to give the fish some hiding places when needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - __http://GoldLenny.http://GoldLe_ (http://goldlenny.http//Gohtt_) <_http://GoldLenny.http://GoldLe_ (http://goldlenny.http//Gohtt_) > (_http://goldlenny.http://gohttp_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) <_http://goldlenny.http://gohttp_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) > ) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@From: _AquatFrom: _Aquati_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai> ) [mailto:_AquaticLif[mailto:_Aquat[mailto:_Aqua_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai> ) ] On Behalf Of __jan1213@aol._ja_ (mailto:_jan1213@...) <mailto:_jan1213%mailto:_j> _ (mailto:_jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) <mailto:jan1213%mailto:ja> ) Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:35 AM To: _AquaticLife@To: _AquTo: _Aqua_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai> ) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours Thanks Chris for the infor...I am courious to see what everyone else has...I don't have one...but will after this post....I have one comet goldfish in a 46 ga tank I would like suggestions to get her a friend. In a message dated 10/17/2008 9:22:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, __chris_o_p@yahoo._ch_ (mailto:_chris_o_p@...) <mailto:_chris_mailto:_chrimai> _ (mailto:_chris_o_p@..._ (mailto:chris_o_p@...) <mailto:chris_mailto:chrismai> ) <mailto:chris_mailto:chris_<W> writes: What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <_http://www.avast.htt_ (http://www.avast.com/) > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 1:26:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31458	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

So - where are you located Bill? Or are you in the witness protection program and not allowed to say? lol. You said you had a Wally World 50 miles away and usually they don't build out in the wilderness. Just curious. Barbara In a message dated 10/17/2008 4:27:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, warrenprint@... writes: An African Cichlid keeper? Hey Len, I've been called worse! The bad news? You won’t find and African Cichlid within 100 miles of this place and that I can guarantee. I’m afraid that I really will have to rely to mail order for that one. Bill **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Hey Bill, I just got one of my regular emails from http://www.LiveAquaria.com, the sister site of http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, but for live fish/critters, and they had a 50% off sale on select cichlids but unfortunately they weren't Aficans. While I was there, I saw the below page of all of the African Cichlids they do have. They are very successful in shipping live fish and have a respectable guarantee and I've never really heard anything bad about them and lots of good. Anyhow... here's the page... but remember that you still need to test your water for the 0, 24 & 48 hour baseline to see what your water will really be like in the tank. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=830+831 There are many other reputable etailers of live fish as well. I checked all the BIG hiding places and still can't find Bill "Livin' At Lenny's!" and my doritos and salsa stock are full but I'm keeping an eye on them. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! So - where are you located Bill? Or are you in the witness protection program and not allowed to say? lol. You said you had a Wally World 50 miles away and usually they don't build out in the wilderness. Just curious. Barbara In a message dated 10/17/2008 4:27:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> writes: An African Cichlid keeper? Hey Len, I've been called worse! The bad news? You won't find and African Cichlid within 100 miles of this place and that I can guarantee. I'm afraid that I really will have to rely to mail order for that one. Bill **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002 <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002> ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 5:17:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 5:26:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31460	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Purigen (was: Restarting a tank)

Yes, I skip that last step. If you read the instructions for recharging Purigen for a saltwater tank, you'll see they do not require that last step. I started wondering why since saltwater fish are much more sensitive to water quality issues. My conclusion from discussing this in a forum thread a few years back is that Purigen will likely suck up some of the buffers in the water when it's freshly recharged. So... if you do not have adequately buffered water (i.e. - harder water with sufficient KH levels), the freshly recharged Purigen could possibly suck up some of your buffering capacity and possibly cause a pH drop. Saltwater tanks are notably "harder" water and well buffered. My local tap water is sufficiently buffered also. I first did a test of just letting a freshly recharged pack of Purigen sit in two cups of tap water to see if it sucked up much of the buffering or altered the pH. It didn't. I did a more thorough test my theory by filling up a test tank with tap water and then tested the water using the baseline testing outline. I then put the Purigen in a filter and ran it on that tank for several days and I did not have a drop in pH, KH or GH levels that registered on my test results. I've been using it for a couple of years without ever doing the third step without any negative consequences. On a side note, if someone's community tank or goldfish tank is not adequately buffered, that can be easily accomplished with plain baking soda.... and baking soda is a lot cheaper than them bottles of chemicals that SeaChem is trying to sell. LOL Here's a simple page and calculator for raising your KH levels using baking soda. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp Make sure you pay attention to this line... "Shoot for raising pH by no more than .4 per day.". I've emailed Betty that she needs to highlight that line like she has some other things highlighted on the page. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 4:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Purigen (was: Restarting a tank) I just purchased Purigen and was reading about recharging it - the instructions had a final step for freshwater use of soaking an additional 4 hours using 1 tbsp buffer per cup of water. (Discus Buffer, Neutral Regulator or Acid Buffer.) Do you skip this step Lenny? Barbara In a message dated 10/17/2008 12:55:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: For example, when "cleaning" or recharging my Purigen chemical filter media, I use a cup of bleach and a cup of water to soak one of the Purigen packets for 24 hours to clean the Purigen. Then I rinse it and use two cups of water and two capfuls (20ml) of dechlor in with the two cups of water and soak the Purigen for another 24 hours. Even though SeaChem doesn't require it, I still allow the Purigen packet to dry out for another 24 hours to make sure I've removed all of the chlorine. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002 <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002> ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 5:26:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 5:39:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31461	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours

Salt. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31462	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Bill, Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than having to do anything radical to it. You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards.com. Another is www.anubiasdesign.com. And there are others as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on.   I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet.   Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well.  You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now?  Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them.  PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be.   Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists!  I am not condemning here just trying to learn more.    If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose.  Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems.  No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it.   What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem.  Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options?  On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago.  I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13.  I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about.   I'd appreciate any thoughts here.  Where do I start?  Test kit, by who?  The Tank it self?  What's my next move?  Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box.   bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31463	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Sorry, You mis-read.� I am here WITH Wally World!� That's the problem, no regular or should I say real pet stores within 50 miles.� WP?� Sorry I wasn't excepted.� They figured anybody my size would be too easy to find no matter what they did or where they put me! <grin> � � � Bill � --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Maxmillionmaxcat@... <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> wrote: From: Maxmillionmaxcat@... <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 5:34 PM So - where are you located Bill? Or are you in the witness protection program and not allowed to say? lol. You said you had a Wally World 50 miles away and usually they don't build out in the wilderness. Just curious. Barbara In a message dated 10/17/2008 4:27:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com writes: An African Cichlid keeper? Hey Len, I've been called worse! The bad news? You won���t find and African Cichlid within 100 miles of this place and that I can guarantee. I���m afraid that I really will have to rely to mail order for that one. Bill ************ **New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local. mapquest. com/?ncid= emlcntnew0000000 2) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31464	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 6:26 PM Hey Bill, I just got one of my regular emails from http://www.LiveAqua ria.com, the sister site of http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com, but for live fish/critters, and they had a 50% off sale on select cichlids but unfortunately they weren't Aficans. While I was there, I saw the below page of all of the African Cichlids they do have. They are very successful in shipping live fish and have a respectable guarantee and I've never really heard anything bad about them and lots of good. Anyhow... here's the page... but remember that you still need to test your water for the 0, 24 & 48 hour baseline to see what your water will really be like in the tank. http://www.liveaqua ria.com/product/ aquarium- fish-supplies. cfm?c=830+ 831 There are many other reputable etailers of live fish as well. I checked all the BIG hiding places and still can't find Bill "Livin' At Lenny's!" and my doritos and salsa stock are full but I'm keeping an eye on them. ;-)  HINT???????????????????????????????????????? LOOK FOR A LARGE UNMOVABLE OBJECT STARING AT YOUR TANKS Bill----------<grin> and thanks for the tip going to check Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@ aol.com Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! So - where are you located Bill? Or are you in the witness protection program and not allowed to say? lol. You said you had a Wally World 50 miles away and usually they don't build out in the wilderness. Just curious. Barbara In a message dated 10/17/2008 4:27:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: An African Cichlid keeper? Hey Len, I've been called worse! The bad news? You won't find and African Cichlid within 100 miles of this place and that I can guarantee. I'm afraid that I really will have to rely to mail order for that one. Bill ************ **New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local. mapquest. com/?ncid= emlcntnew0000000 2 <http://local. mapquest. com/?ncid= emlcntnew0000000 2> ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 5:17:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 5:26:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31465	From: Jenn	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Skinny fish

I had a problem a few months back. I was losing about a fish every other week in my 75 gallon tank. I ran all the water tests that I could and everything was within normal range. I treated with a product called Clout for about a week. Everything seemed fine after that, I haven't lost a fish since then but, I noticed today that one of my Red Iriams is looking thin. This is what happened before. One fish at a time would get skinny, even though I saw them eating, and eventually die. Could this be the same parasite or issue as before? Should I have treated the tank for a longer period of time? My water is testing normal (nitrates under 20 and water is a little hard but it always is everything else is 0 or optimum) and as far as I know there is no way to test for internal parasites. I hate to lose fish especially when it's nothing that I can see on the outside. What do you suggest I do? I am going to treat with Clout since it seemed to work last time. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31466	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Steve, good hearing from you. � Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon.� Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find anything about price?� Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want the �Lab� wants and that�s only for one test!� On the Lab?� Not to worry, they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave and could we give another?� Now maybe you�ll understand �Bill�s� luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me.� Right now I say maybe to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead------and establish a base line reference.� If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. � On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super Char were used with it?� I am strong believer in those filters.� Maybe that�s why I never tested years ago.� Plus the fact that at that time we were using town water with a neutral PH.� I used a product then that did not diminish with a Diatom�s use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. � On Glass Cages.� I don�t know if you missed the post on the tank of my interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon).� Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto Type?) to go on top.� I�m thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that high?� I�ll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as well as a proper power filter and heater. � Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with �mail-order fish� exclusively! � When you have a chance, � Bill � � --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM Bill, Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than having to do anything radical to it. You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. � I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. � Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well.� You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now?� Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them.� PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. � Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists!� I am not condemning here just trying to learn more.� � If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. �Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems.� No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. � What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem.� Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options?� On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago.� I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13.� I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. � I'd appreciate any thoughts here.� Where do I start?� Test kit, by who?� The Tank it self?� What's my next move?� Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. � bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31467	From: ajb21130	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: PH question

Hi guys, Well i am still in planning stages of starting my fw planted. I decided to test my tap waters ph to see what it was. I use a 3 stage filter on my tap for my sons bottles so obviously I will give my fishies filtered water as they will be my babies too!!! The PH of my water is 7.6 My question is... is this too high a PH for plants ? I know its too high for tetras , what i really had my heart set on by the way. And will the water conditioner effect the ph any? Also since i really had my heart set on tetras I know that they make a ph down should i try to change the ph of my water so i can have the fish i want or should i just go with fish that will tolerate the PH of my water un altered. Thanks for any answers guys you all are great i was apart of a few other groups but i withdrew my membership with them now its down to 3 groups and possibly only 2 here very soon . Happy weekend to all, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31468	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: PH question

Hi Amber, Your pH of 7.6 is fine... for most commonly available aquarium plants and for most common community fish (and probably for many of the uncommon ones also). There is much too much emphasis or fear instilled by the pet stores trying to get people to have 7.0 pH water. Fish rarely have 7.0 pH water in the wild and usually acclimate to a wide range of pH throughout the day and seasons. Further, if your baseline pH is actually 7.6, it will come down naturally in your tank once the ecology of the tank is established. Was that test right out of the tap? If so, fill a large open plastic or glass container with water out of the filtered tap. Test it. Add your dechlor product used for fish. Test it. Wait 24 hours. Test it. Wait another 24 hours. Test it. That 48 hour test will be more like what your water will really be like. It's very common for water right out the tap to have much different test results compared to after it's had a chance to air out and stabilize. For more details on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline", see the article on my blog. It would also be a good idea to test your tap for things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH. What size tank are you planning and what kind of tetras were you interested in? Here's a couple of simple startup articles on a planted tank. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htm http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb21130 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PH question Hi guys, Well i am still in planning stages of starting my fw planted. I decided to test my tap waters ph to see what it was. I use a 3 stage filter on my tap for my sons bottles so obviously I will give my fishies filtered water as they will be my babies too!!! The PH of my water is 7.6 My question is... is this too high a PH for plants ? I know its too high for tetras , what i really had my heart set on by the way. And will the water conditioner effect the ph any? Also since i really had my heart set on tetras I know that they make a ph down should i try to change the ph of my water so i can have the fish i want or should i just go with fish that will tolerate the PH of my water un altered. Thanks for any answers guys you all are great i was apart of a few other groups but i withdrew my membership with them now its down to 3 groups and possibly only 2 here very soon . Happy weekend to all, Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 7:43:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31469	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Skinny fish

I would remove the "skinny" fish to a hospital tank for closer observation that is difficult to do in a large tank with other fish. One of the simplest ways to determine fish health is to observe it's poop. A fish with internal digestive system parasites, which if I had to guess, is what you have, will usually have white stringy poops. The reason the fish is still eating but getting skinny is because the parasites living in the digestive tract (likely intestinal) are "eating" all the food before the fish has a chance to absorb the nutrients. This also results in the white stringy poop. In a hospital tank with limited water circulation and a plain bottom, you would be able to see this type of poop and know better. Since the fish is eating, you should feed it an antiparasite food. Jungle brands makes one that is readily available at most pet stores, including PetsMart's if you have one nearby. Don't forget to check the PetsMart.com website pricing and print the page as the store will match the website price. This article explains a lot about medicated foods, including the Jungle antiparasite food. http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html I've never used Clout but looking at one of the ads on DrsFosterSmith.com, it is being advertised for external parasites. Here's a snip from http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+4724 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+4724&pca tid=4724> &pcatid=4724 Clout * Combats aquarium illness and infestations associated with external parasites * Ideal for treating fish disease such as ich, anchor worms, and fish lice * Effective fish medication for fresh or saltwater aquariums Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenn Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Skinny fish I had a problem a few months back. I was losing about a fish every other week in my 75 gallon tank. I ran all the water tests that I could and everything was within normal range. I treated with a product called Clout for about a week. Everything seemed fine after that, I haven't lost a fish since then but, I noticed today that one of my Red Iriams is looking thin. This is what happened before. One fish at a time would get skinny, even though I saw them eating, and eventually die. Could this be the same parasite or issue as before? Should I have treated the tank for a longer period of time? My water is testing normal (nitrates under 20 and water is a little hard but it always is everything else is 0 or optimum) and as far as I know there is no way to test for internal parasites. I hate to lose fish especially when it's nothing that I can see on the outside. What do you suggest I do? I am going to treat with Clout since it seemed to work last time. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. jenn _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 7:27:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31470	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Bill, Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a decent Master Test Kit". The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the basic Master Test Kit. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Steve, good hearing from you. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead------and establish a base line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as well as a proper power filter and heater. Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with "mail-order fish" exclusively! When you have a chance, Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM Bill, Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than having to do anything radical to it. You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31471	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails

Unlike most of these other bums around here, I went to a private all-boys Catholic high school. My parents sent me there to keep me out of trouble. Boy, the things I learned there! It was a wonderful education. I only got suspended once a year for the time I was there! I did keep a small tank at the school, once I moved into a room from the open dormitory. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails Ha, on my best day that wasn't me! Remember, I went to a Catholic all-girls school, people! We marched wearing suits of armor!!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Ahhhh, the one in Pink and Black, I see her now ;) > > Lawn mower dance, awesome. I do believe I have an uncle that participates in lawn mower races. > > Fish content. > Finally have all my fish at my new house in my new fishroom! > > Took forever and I still have a 110 gallon empty acrylic tank to move from the old house. > > The new fish room is getting nice and toasty with only two aquarium heaters in my Malagasy cichlid tank. That is to say the room is not heated, I only have two tank heaters running and two linear air pumps. This is the only source of heat other than the outside air when I open the door. Hope it stays like this during the winter but I doubt it. > > -Mike > > > > > Better than pictures... a little birdie told me that Alina's on YouTube. > > > > She's the one in the pink and black. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc > > > > And since lawn care is a growing part of my business down here (sevice added > > after Katrina), I think I might have to join this precision lawnmower dance > > team for next Mardi Gras. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk > > (While on this page, check out some of their other YouTube's... they're a > > crazy bunch of dudes!) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 7:11 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bet > ter than pictures... a little birdie told me that Alina's on YouTube. > > She's the one in the pink and black. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_pahCDJUmc > > > > And since lawn care is a growing part of my business down here (sevice added > > after Katrina), I think I might have to join this precision lawnmower dance > > team for next Mardi Gras. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHY84CHyHkk > > (While on this page, check out some of their other YouTube's... they're a > > crazy bunch of dudes!) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > Pictures? > > > > Not you Lenny ;) > > > > -Mike > > > > OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading > > this, don't buy the "geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were > > full of babes! LOL > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 9:45 am > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > OOooh.. so you were a dance team babe! Oooh-la-la! ;-) LOL Any guys reading > > this, don't buy the=2 > 0"geeky" part. 95% of the Mardi Gras dance teams were > > full of babes! LOL > > > > I think I've been kicked out of most of the bars you listed at least once, > > although I don't recognize Ms. Maes (it could have been on the end of the > > route... LOL), and yes, I spent many a nights at Nick's Original Big Train > > Bar on Tulane Ave. I think it's dead now due to Katrina. That area was > > already struggling for business due to the neighborhood and I think Katrina > > was the last straw. Here's a nice little blog about Nick's, including > > references to all the crackheads in the neighborhood. LOL > > http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html > > <http://icedcoffeeandabagel.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-of-icon.html> I even > > won one of their Halloween costume contests. It took me a while to whittle > > down that bar tab. Did they have their Velcro wall when you were hanging out > > there? Heck, if you were hanging out there in the 80's and early 90's, I > > probably hit on you at least once... and since you were a dance team babe, > > likely more than once! L OL > > > > Most of the uptown bars are still around since uptown didn't get severely > > flooded like much of the rest of the city. > > > > Oh yeah... good to see the tank is coming along. This thread is starting to > > have a whole new meaning to getting tanked! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month=2 > 0and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:48 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > I used to march in the Metairie Mardi Gras parades with one of those geeky > > dance teams (TMI!) As for the bars -- Ms. Maes, TJ Quills were favorites, > > and Fat Harrys, Cooter Brown's, the Maple Leaf for awesome Cajun music. Too > > many nights in those places to count. And then I remember Nick's Bar...it > > had all those weird mixed drinks. I loved that place. > > > > I did know that Seton had become a senior living facility. Bummer. > > > > As for the tank, reports are that nitrites are down to .25. Amen already! > > Checking nitrates... > > > > Thanks so much. > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Technically, I went to Seton Academy also, unfortunately, long > > before it was > > > an all-girls high school. DARN! LOL Back when I went, it was called > > Sacred > > > Heart and I only went there for first grade bef > > ore migrating out to > > > the burbs in Metairie. Did you know it was eventually turned into > > > senior citizen housing run by Catholic Charities? At least that's the > > > last > > news I > > > real > ly heard about it and that was prior to Katrina. I haven't > > really paid > > > attention to it when ever I'm in the area to see if it reopened after > > > Katrina. > > > > > > Although I'm finally starting to grow up, I would think the adult > > > playground, called New Orleans, would also be missed. I'm sure you > > had to > > > spend at least a few days and nights at one of the many uptown bars > > around > > > Loyola and Tulane... along with the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. > > > ;-) Which uptown bar was your favorite? > > > > > > OK... back to the fish. LOL > > > > > > It's good that your nitrates are also going up between your constant > > PWC's. > > > That means your nitrite eating bacteria are growing their colonies > > as well. > > > I know I sound like a broken record but it shouldn't be much longer > > before > > > you are getting zero's for ammonia and nitrite and then you'll only > > have to > > > do your weekly to bi-weekly PWC's (depending on bioload) to keep the > > > nitrates and other water quality issues in check. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoog roups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > I lived between City Park Ave and Carrollton, on North Olympia, just > > behind > > > PGT Beauregard Middle School. I went to Seton Academy for high school, > > > Loyola for college. Left in 1993, and have missed it ever since. > > (And here's > > > a tip: you miss the food the most. I've hankered for a creole tomato > > > for about 7 years now....and a real bowl of gumbo.) > > > > > > It was hard to see what Katrina did. Many friends lost everything. But > > > I believe in that place and I know it will come back. I hope one day > > > to return, that's for sure. > > > > > > In any case, the nitrates have been going up a little, then holding at > > > around 10. I'll check again tonight. I do have hard water, so I > > think Gary > > > is OK. He's a good eater. He's become one of my favorites. > > > Clearly, I am not an equal opportunity snail fan. The others I can do > > > without. > > > > > > Thanks again > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Did you leave for Katrina or before then? I also grew up in > > > Mid-City, near > > > > > Jeff Davis and Banks (which is right off Canal St. also... but then > > > isn't > > > > just about everything in Mid-City right off Canal Street? ;-) For > > > others > > > > reading t > > his, Canal St. is the "Main St." of New Orleans). I live in > > > > Metairie now, not far from the Kenner line. Never lived on the > > > Westbank but > > > > I'm over there a lot for my business. > > > > > > > > What about your nitrate levels? I'm hoping they are going up > > > between PWC's > > > > also so that would give us an idea that your nitrite eating bacteria > > > > are working or if it's just the PWC's that are keeping the nitrites > > > > in > > > check. > > > > > > > > Yes, you should feed Gary. Gary would also like other veggies as well. > > > > Here's a list of other calcium rich foods that apple snails and > > > > mystery snails like as well as postings from other people about > > > > snacks they feed their snails. The calcium is needed for proper > > > > shell > > growth. > > > > If > > > you have > > > > hard water with a higher pH, it will usually have enough Calcium > > > Carbonate > > > > already in the water but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > >20<http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > > > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > > > above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:Aquati > > cLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 6:56 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > > > > > Yes, in fact, that's what's been worrying me, that nitrites do go up > > > > in between PWC, like to between 1 and 2, and then if they go down to > > > .50, they > > > > go up to 1 in between. So I'm glad that is good. Ammo. > > > > holding steady at zero. > > > > > > > > I don't have any > fancy plants. I bought two aquatic wysteria to try > > > my hand > > > > at plants, and then this. Everything else in my tank is fake. The > > > snails are > > > > not eating my plants, strangely enough. The plants look giddy with > > > > happiness, all green and healthy. > > > > > > > > Gary, my apple snail, has been cleaning the tank walls like crazy. > > > > I've left lettuce in the tank a couple of nights but no snails have > > > > been present. In fact, I haven't seen any for a couple of days. > > > > > > > > I want to give Gary an algae pellet tonight, do you think that would > > > be OK? > > > > I give those to him every few days. I just don't want to muck up the > > > tank > > > > too much. > > > > > > > > Oh, and I was searching this site the other day looking for info and > > > I came > > > > across20a posting of yours where you said you're in N.O....small > > > world, man. > > > > That's my hometown. Grew up in mid-city, off Canal Street. > > > > Lived in the West Bank too for awhile, and Kenner after college. > > > > > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > I personally do not worry about them and just consider them a > > > > natural part > > > > > of the ecosystem in my tanks but then I don't let them get out of > > > > control > > > > > and I don't have a lot of fancy plants so they don't really do > > > > > harm > > > > to the > > > > > ones I do have which are fast growing, easy to grow plants. I do > > >=2 > 0> have a big > > > > > Crypt in my goldfish tank but I don't have snails in that tank. I > > > > guess the > > > > > goldfish eat them if they ever do show up. LOL > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't break down a tank over snails unless it was a > > > > > beautifully > > > > planted > > > > > tank and the snails were eating up all the plants. I'd do the > > > > > trapping, etc. to control them. The nitrifying bacteria will catch > > > > > up with the bioload soon and you won't see this problem again. > > > > > Your problem was > > > > all the > > > > > snails came shortly after you went through a cycling issue so the > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria weren't up to snuff to handle every thing at once. > > > > > > > > > > Are the snails eating your plants? If they aren't, then I wouldn't > > > > trash > > > > > the plants or worry about them too much. They are opportunistic > > > > > > breeders > > > > > and usually won't breed prolifically unless there is an abundance > > > > > of > > > > food. > > > > > You just happened to get a plant where there was a clutch of eggs > > > > ready to > > > > > hatch. Keep using the slice of cucumber or whatever you are using > > > > > as a snail trap and you'll get them back under control. If you > > > > > ever see them breeding like crazy again, that's a warning that > > > > > you're not cleaning the tank enough or overfeeding the fish. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.c > om > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles > > > > > referenced above listed on the right side under > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:23 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40 > > yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh, how I hate nuisance snails > > > > > > > > > > This is a little > long, so bear with me.. > > > > > > > > > > ..The saga of the snails I never knew I had continues. Since the > > > > appearance > > > > > of nuisance snails last Thursday who hitched a ride on two of my > > > > > plants, I've had completely discombobulated tank (it's a > > > > > scientific term > > > > :-)! )with > > > > > first a huge ammonia spike, and now, almost a week later, I'm > > > > > still > > > > having > > > > > high nitrites. At one point they got as high as 5, came down to 2, > > > > and have > > > > > hovered around 1 for a few days. And that has been with sometimes > > > > three 25% > > > > > PWC a day. > > > > > > > > > > The main parameters are that ammonia has gone up a little, like to > > > > .25, then > > > > > back down to zero now. Today nitrites are at .50 and have been > > > > > holding steady, but we did 3 PWC at 25% each (morning, afternoon, > > > evening). > > > > > > > > > > So assuming I can get my nitrites down to a safe level in the next > > > > day or > > > > > so, what do I do about my tank that is now infected with the > > > > nasties? First, > > > > > I don't know enough about these snails to know if all my gravel > > > > cleanings > > > > > have rid us of any others I might not see yet. I have not seen any > > > > for about > > > > > 48 hours. (my tank is 38 gals, btw) > > > > > > > > > > 1. Is my filter media infected with their eggs? > > > > > 2. Can I i > > nfect another tank by say, trans > ferring my filter media > > > > > to a smaller tank and trying to treat the larger tank after > > > > > removing my > > > > fish? Can > > > > > my fish infect another tank? > > > > > > > > > > 3. Should I just try to break down the tank and restart it with my > > > > filter > > > > > media? > > > > > > > > > > 4. Should I just trash my two live plants, keep cleaning for a > > > > > while and see? > > > > > > > > > > 5. Do nothing? > > > > > > > > > > I do have access to a 10 gallon tank at my son's school, which we > > > > > set up about three weeks ago. I do not have more than 10 small > > > > > fish > > > > (remember, my > > > > > tank was 2 months old, and it's my first -- I was going > > > > > slowly) mostly tetras, and one apple snail I adore. So I could > > > > > move > > > > my fish > > > > > to that tank, and break mine down. > > > > > > > > > > At first, I thought, what's a couple of snails, I'll live with them. > > > > > My concern is that if these snails have done this much to my > > > > aquarium system > > > > > in a few days....it is not a manageable situation for me if they > > > > resurface. > > > > > With two kids under five, three x a day water changes and a > > > > > full-time job....something will have to give. If those of you with > > > > > more experience know that this is likely to taper off, and I can > > > > > live with a snail > > > > here and > > > > > there, let me know that too. I'm just not=2 > 0sure what to expect from > > > > > an infected=2 > > 0tank. > > > > > > > > > > I also have a small 10 gallon tank that is empty in the garage. I > > > > > keep thinking I could just clean it up and move my fish and Gary > > > > > the > > > > snail while > > > > > I treat my tank. > > > > > > > > > > Advice from you guys is much, much appreciated. Again, my > > > > > apologies > > > > for the > > > > > length. I just want to do the right thing this time! > > > > > > > > > > Alina >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31472	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol’ bill here; I have been living over at Lenny’s web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on.   I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I’d love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I’d like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven’t even purchased yet.   Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well.  You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now?  Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them.  PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be.   Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists!  I am not condemning here just trying to learn more.    If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose.  Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems.  No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn’t lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it.   What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem.  Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options?  On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago.  I was over on their web-site and found I tank I’d really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13.  I came up with this size after some discussion with “Lenny” from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about.   I’d appreciate any thoughts here.  Where do I start?  Test kit, by who?  The Tank it self?  What’s my next move?  Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I’d like to get started before I’m too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box.   bill     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31473	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: PH question

Lenny, you make an extremely good point about the pet stores scaring people! I went tonight to pick up some fish for the 35 gallon and that guy was nuts! So I test his knowledge and say " I need some fish that are good for a tank with high ph, about 8.5 high. So ofcourse he says cichlids. Okay got that one. I said I didnt want those. So he said "well to keep any tropical fish your PH needs to be 7.0 or nothing will live in your tank. We have some ph adjusters back there to help out." lol yeah, okay. So then as I was leaving I hear him tell someone else who puchased some fish and a tank "This stuff is called Cycle, just fill your tank, add your declorinator and then put this in there. This with make your tank ready for fish in just 5 minutes" poor fish! Needless to say, I didnt buy anything there! Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:43:16 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH question Hi Amber,Your pH of 7.6 is fine... for most commonly available aquarium plants andfor most common community fish (and probably for many of the uncommon onesalso). There is much too much emphasis or fear instilled by the pet storestrying to get people to have 7.0 pH water. Fish rarely have 7.0 pH water inthe wild and usually acclimate to a wide range of pH throughout the day andseasons. Further, if your baseline pH is actually 7.6, it will come downnaturally in your tank once the ecology of the tank is established.Was that test right out of the tap? If so, fill a large open plastic orglass container with water out of the filtered tap. Test it. Add yourdechlor product used for fish. Test it. Wait 24 hours. Test it. Waitanother 24 hours. Test it. That 48 hour test will be more like what yourwater will really be like. It's very common for water right out the tap tohave much different test results compared to after it's had a chance to airout and stabilize. For more details on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline",see the article on my blog. It would also be a good idea to test your tapfor things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH.What size tank are you planning and what kind of tetras were you interestedin?Here's a couple of simple startup articles on a planted tank.http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htmhttp://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.htmlLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of ajb21130Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:26 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] PH questionHi guys,Well i am still in planning stages of starting my fw planted.I decided to test my tap waters ph to see what it was.I use a 3 stage filter on my tap for my sons bottles so obviously I willgive my fishies filtered water as they will be my babies too!!!The PH of my water is 7.6My question is... is this too high a PH for plants ? I know its too high fortetras , what i really had my heart set on by the way. And will the waterconditioner effect the ph any? Also since i really had my heart set ontetras I know that they make a ph down should i try to change the ph of mywater so i can have the fish i want or should i just go with fish that willtolerate the PH of my water un altered.Thanks for any answers guys you all are great i was apart of a few othergroups but i withdrew my membership with them now its down to 3 groups andpossibly only 2 here very soon .Happy weekend to all,Amber_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008Tested on: 10/17/2008 7:43:16 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31474	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

I also use the Tetratest Laborette and it works okay. I find the PH very hard to see a difference in though. Also, it doesnt come with a nitrate NO3 so you would need to buy that seperate. Walmart has a good price online I belive its 12.88 and you can use site to store for free shipping. I got mine in about 4-5 days. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:24:54 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Bill,Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you alsoneed the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master testkits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or theTetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS adecent Master Test Kit". The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH.The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, includingGH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do nothave as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. Theyare still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with alab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concernedabout a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may beoverkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above.In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would getall the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth oftesting for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could gowith the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00.The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than thebasic Master Test Kit.-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bill1433Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's!Steve, good hearing from you.Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon.Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not findanything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to wantthe "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry,they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gaveand could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's"luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybeto buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead------and establish a baseline reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would beusing the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway.On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with SuperChar were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybethat's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time wewere using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did notdiminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; cometo think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon.On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of myinterest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon).Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (PerfectoType?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twinunit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't thathigh? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later aswell as a proper power filter and heater.Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with"mail-order fish" exclusively!When you have a chance,Bill--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote:From: Steve Szabo <steve@...>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's!To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comDate: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PMBill,Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least thosewho cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers tothe hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even ifwe were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problemswith their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing.Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon.They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your oleeyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results.As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, ROis the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your ownstill, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilledwater. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstituteit to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have noidea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that willguide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness.You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate.The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, Idon't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you.Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd liketo know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though youjust may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather thanhaving to do anything radical to it.You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless youhave an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. Youcan get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. Oneabsolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Anotheris www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well.\\Steve//-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of bill1433Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AMTo: Fish GroupSubject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's!Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the pastthree days or so and have made some radical observations that I would liketo state and maybe have some of you folks comment on.I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hearfrom you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineralproblems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now)I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that Ihaven't even purchased yet.Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a fewfish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this withthis type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled waterfor them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-somethinggallon tank for the future they could be.Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching andmonitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called themsomething different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists------------ ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here justtrying to learn more.If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here afterreading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it mustcertainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much moreknowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell mewhere or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I workingwith, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy thatmuch distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I couldafford it.What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which couldneutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options?On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles ofhere save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)?I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned onthis list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'dreally like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13.I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this listthat was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for saleon the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about.I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? TheTank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months tohear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift thetank out of its shipping box.bill_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31475	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Do NOT go by the tank sizes given by those websites for African cichlids. What are the dimensions of this tank again? I think it is too small for many African cichlids. An all-purpose size tank for them is 55G and 48" long. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Hey Bill, I just got one of my regular emails from http://www.LiveAqua <http://www.LiveAquaria.com,> ria.com, the sister site of http://www.DrsFoste <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> rSmith.com, but for live fish/critters, and they had a 50% off sale on select cichlids but unfortunately they weren't Aficans. While I was there, I saw the below page of all of the African Cichlids they do have. They are very successful in shipping live fish and have a respectable guarantee and I've never really heard anything bad about them and lots of good. Anyhow... here's the page... but remember that you still need to test your water for the 0, 24 & 48 hour baseline to see what your water will really be like in the tank. http://www.liveaqua <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=830+831> ria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=830+831 There are many other reputable etailers of live fish as well. I checked all the BIG hiding places and still can't find Bill "Livin' At Lenny's!" and my doritos and salsa stock are full but I'm keeping an eye on them. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@ <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> aol.com Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! So - where are you located Bill? Or are you in the witness protection program and not allowed to say? lol. You said you had a Wally World 50 miles away and usually they don't build out in the wilderness. Just curious. Barbara In a message dated 10/17/2008 4:27:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, warrenprint@ <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> writes: An African Cichlid keeper? Hey Len, I've been called worse! The bad news? You won't find and African Cichlid within 100 miles of this place and that I can guarantee. I'm afraid that I really will have to rely to mail order for that one. Bill **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local. <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002> mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002 <http://local. <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002> mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002> ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 5:17:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 5:26:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31476	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Donna, I'm no expert on African Cichlids so I'll leave it to the experts and according to this article from a respected site, there are quite a few different African Cichlid combinations that could be housed in a 40G long tank... with fish from either Lakes Tanganyika, Victoria and Malawi and even a Victoria/Malawi combo. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php These Cookie-Cutter set-ups for many tank sizes http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php are tried and true set-ups. It's true that you have to be more careful when cleaning an acrylic tank and maybe with the rocks and sand from an African Cichlid tank, they would have a higher chance of getting scratched up so if Bill does have to go with the African Cichlids, a glass tank may be a better choice. The pro side of acrylic is the scratches can be buffed out with a $25.00 polishing kit available at places like DrsFosterSmith.com and others. With glass, you would have to have a pro do it with special equipment for polishing glass... obviously at a higher cost... but since it's much harder to scratch glass, I would probably lean towards glass with the rocks and sand substrate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 9:14:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31477	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: PH question

At one time, I was tempted to print up stickers with a couple of fish forum URL's on them and stick them on all the tanks at my local PetsMart... just to give the newbie customers a fighting chance at getting decent advice compared to the usually bad advice dispensed at pet stores. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:31 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH question Lenny, you make an extremely good point about the pet stores scaring people! I went tonight to pick up some fish for the 35 gallon and that guy was nuts! So I test his knowledge and say " I need some fish that are good for a tank with high ph, about 8.5 high. So ofcourse he says cichlids. Okay got that one. I said I didnt want those. So he said "well to keep any tropical fish your PH needs to be 7.0 or nothing will live in your tank. We have some ph adjusters back there to help out." lol yeah, okay. So then as I was leaving I hear him tell someone else who puchased some fish and a tank "This stuff is called Cycle, just fill your tank, add your declorinator and then put this in there. This with make your tank ready for fish in just 5 minutes" poor fish! Needless to say, I didnt buy anything there! Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:43:16 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH question Hi Amber,Your pH of 7.6 is fine... for most commonly available aquarium plants andfor most common community fish (and probably for many of the uncommon onesalso). There is much too much emphasis or fear instilled by the pet storestrying to get people to have 7.0 pH water. Fish rarely have 7.0 pH water inthe wild and usually acclimate to a wide range of pH throughout the day andseasons. Further, if your baseline pH is actually 7.6, it will come downnaturally in your tank once the ecology of the tank is established.Was that test right out of the tap? If so, fill a large open plastic orglass container with water out of the filtered tap. Test it. Add yourdechlor product used for fish. Test it. Wait 24 hours. Test it. Waitanother 24 hours. Test it. That 48 hour test will be more like what yourwater will really be like. It's very common for water right out the tap tohave much different test results compared to after it's had a chance to airout and stabilize. For more details on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline",see the article on my blog. It would also be a good idea to test your tapfor things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH.What size tank are you planning and what kind of tetras were you interestedin?Here's a couple of simple startup articles on a planted tank.http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htmhttp://thegab.org/A rticles/WalstadTank.htmlLenny <tank.http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htmhttp://thegab.org/ Articles/WalstadTank.htmlLenny> VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of ajb21130Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:26 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] PH questionHi guys,Well i am still in planning stages of starting my fw planted.I decided to test my tap waters ph to see what it was.I use a 3 stage filter on my tap for my sons bottles so obviously I willgive my fishies filtered water as they will be my babies too!!!The PH of my water is 7.6My question is... is this too high a PH for plants ? I know its too high fortetras , what i really had my heart set on by the way. And will the waterconditioner effect the ph any? Also since i really had my heart set ontetras I know that they make a ph down should i try to change the ph of mywater so i can have the fish i want or should i just go with fish that willtolerate the PH of my water un altered.Thanks for any answers guys you all are great i was apart of a few othergroups but i withdrew my membership with them now its down to 3 groups andpossibly only 2 here very soon .Happy weekend to all,Amber_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008Tested on: 10/17/2008 7:43:16 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:41:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 9:17:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31478	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Donna, See my reply about the Cookie-Cutter set-ups for a 40G long tank. I think LiveAquaria gives accurate info about the size of the fish but not always for the size of the tank required. This is why I referred Bill to the Cookie-Cutter set-up articles. They had quite a few different stocking options for a 40G long tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Do NOT go by the tank sizes given by those websites for African cichlids. What are the dimensions of this tank again? I think it is too small for many African cichlids. An all-purpose size tank for them is 55G and 48" long. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Hey Bill, I just got one of my regular emails from http://www.LiveAqua <http://www.LiveAquaria.com, <http://www.LiveAquaria.com, <http://www.LiveAquaria.com,> > > ria.com, the sister site of http://www.DrsFoste <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> > > rSmith.com, but for live fish/critters, and they had a 50% off sale on select cichlids but unfortunately they weren't Aficans. While I was there, I saw the below page of all of the African Cichlids they do have. They are very successful in shipping live fish and have a respectable guarantee and I've never really heard anything bad about them and lots of good. Anyhow... here's the page... but remember that you still need to test your water for the 0, 24 & 48 hour baseline to see what your water will really be like in the tank. http://www.liveaqua <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=830+831 <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=830+831 <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=830+831> > > ria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=830+831 There are many other reputable etailers of live fish as well. I checked all the BIG hiding places and still can't find Bill "Livin' At Lenny's!" and my doritos and salsa stock are full but I'm keeping an eye on them. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@ <mailto:Maxmillionmaxcat%40aol.com> aol.com Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! So - where are you located Bill? Or are you in the witness protection program and not allowed to say? lol. You said you had a Wally World 50 miles away and usually they don't build out in the wilderness. Just curious. Barbara In a message dated 10/17/2008 4:27:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, warrenprint@ <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> writes: An African Cichlid keeper? Hey Len, I've been called worse! The bad news? You won't find and African Cichlid within 100 miles of this place and that I can guarantee. I'm afraid that I really will have to rely to mail order for that one. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 9:26:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31479	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: PH question

I am sooooo with you on that one. I have carefully spoken to customers while the employees were not close. I used to have business cards for my fish club and wanted to hand them to people but did not want to get stores mad at the club, but the temptation was strong! -Mike At one time, I was tempted to print up stickers with a couple of fish forum URL's on them and stick them on all the tanks at my local PetsMart... just to give the newbie customers a fighting chance at getting decent advice compared to the usually bad advice dispensed at pet stores. Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 7:17 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH question At one time, I was tempted to print up stickers with a couple of fish forum URL's on them and stick them on all the tanks at my local PetsMart... just to give the newbie customers a fighting chance at getting decent advice compared to the usually bad advice dispensed at pet stores. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:31 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH question Lenny, you make an extremely good point about the pet20stores scaring people! I went tonight to pick up some fish for the 35 gallon and that guy was nuts! So I test his knowledge and say " I need some fish that are good for a tank with high ph, about 8.5 high. So ofcourse he says cichlids. Okay got that one. I said I didnt want those. So he said "well to keep any tropical fish your PH needs to be 7.0 or nothing will live in your tank. We have some ph adjusters back there to help out." lol yeah, okay. So then as I was leaving I hear him tell someone else who puchased some fish and a tank "This stuff is called Cycle, just fill your tank, add your declorinator and then put this in there. This with make your tank ready for fish in just 5 minutes" poor fish! Needless to say, I didnt buy anything there! Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:43:16 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PH question Hi Amber,Your pH of 7.6 is fine... for most commonly available aquarium plants andfor most common community fish (and probably for many of the uncommon onesalso). There is much too much emphasis or fear instilled by the pet storestrying to get people to ha ve 7.0 pH water. Fish rarely have 7.0 pH water inthe wild and usually acclimate to a wide range of pH throughout the day andseasons. Further, if your baseline pH is actually 7.6, it will come downnaturally in your tank once the ecology of the tank is established.Was that test right out of the tap? If so, fill a large open plastic orglass container with water out of the filtered tap. Test it. Add yourdechlor product used for fish. Test it. Wait 24 hours. Test it. Waitanother 24 hours. Test it. That 48 hour test will be more like what yourwater will really be like. It's very common for water right out the tap tohave much different test results compared to after it's had a chance to airout and stabilize. For more details on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline",see the article on my blog. It would also be a good idea to test your tapfor things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH.What size tank are you planning and what kind of tetras were you interestedin?Here's a couple of simple startup articles on a planted tank.http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htmhttp://thegab.org/A rticles/WalstadTank.htmlLenny <tank.http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htmhttp://thegab.org/ Articles/WalstadTank.htmlLenny> VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] O nBehalf Of ajb21130Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:26 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] PH questionHi guys,Well i am still in planning stages of starting my fw planted.I decided to test my tap waters ph to see what it was.I use a 3 stage filter on my tap for my sons bottles so obviously I willgive my fishies filtered water as they will be my babies too!!!The PH of my water is 7.6My question is... is this too high a PH for plants ? I know its too high fortetras , what i really had my heart set on by the way. And will the waterconditioner effect the ph any? Also since i really had my heart set ontetras I know that they make a ph down should i try to change the ph of mywater so i can have the fish i want or should i just go with fish that willtolerate the PH of my water un altered.Thanks for any answers guys you all are great i was apart of a few othergroups but i withdrew my membership with them now its down to 3 groups andpossibly only 2 here very soon .Happy weekend to all,Amber_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008Tested on: 10/17/2008 7:43:16 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:41:33 PM ava st! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 9:17:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31480	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: plant question

Anyone have any clue what type of plant I have growing? its dark red, came from a bulb and has three points on each leaf. I have photos in CheeseyPhotos album. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31481	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

First on the tank, it�s a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. I�m thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank this wide).� I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet.� On the fish?� As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55�s or better.� Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they are not too crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, and temperature.� Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank mates for a commujnty tank setup. �������������������� Acrylic?� At this price most definitely!� Scratches?� Yes, I agree there too BUT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also it�s greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value.� Bill lives in PA.� It�s getting cold in PA, very cold soon.� Now Bill lives for the cold.� Bill�s fish do not.� I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish all doing well at 78 degree�s with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. � Now about those Abbreviations?� You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on ol� bill.� I am going nut�s boogying back and fourth between Lenny�s abbreviation page.�( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)?� Thank god its there but I can�t get these two:� GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH stands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)---------and at my age, I�m not sure I had it in the first place! � Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail.� Working with all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came across one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have.� It�s called an Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing.� As close as I can determine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are all in the hood!� Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly?� I have seen only pictures with nothing first hand.� Perhaps a trip to Wally World? � Thanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one more favor?��� Please don�t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two more months.� Try looking at it this way:� �If you folks can get me off the ground with this tank, you can kick back and say you�ve done it all! � Thanks Again for everything, � Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31482	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: plant question

Is this the plant bulb http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/907c?b=5 <http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/907c?b=5&m=f& o=0> &m=f&o=0 ? If not that one, check your album http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/907c and let everyone know which photo is the one. It looks like pictures 5 and 6 are the same plant from different angles. I don't recognize it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:57 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plant question Anyone have any clue what type of plant I have growing? its dark red, came from a bulb and has three points on each leaf. I have photos in CheeseyPhotos album. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 10:08:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31483	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

http://www.fish.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=790088+002 is one place you can get the AquaTru master Test Kit. It is unfortunate that they are so hard to find. They are probably, overall, the best kits on the market. The formulas for NovAqua and Amquel have changed (patent ran out). The inventor is now distributing his wares through HikariUSA with new names. The diatom filter will not remove anything of interest from your water, other than any turbidity it may have. The activated carbon will not help with your pH nor hardness. You have indicated that there may be something else in your water that is not particularly kosher, but have not mentioned what it might be. The activated carbon may remove this, but not knowing what it is, I cannot say with any degree of certainty. As for lighting to go with your new tank, I would think it would be relatively easy to find a 36" light fixture (30 watt bulb for normal fluorescent--more is you have it fitted with compact fluorescent lamps. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Steve, good hearing from you.   Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon.  Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find anything about price?  Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test!  On the Lab?  Not to worry, they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave and could we give another?  Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me.  Right now I say maybe to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead------and establish a base line reference.  If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway.   On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super Char were used with it?  I am strong believer in those filters.  Maybe that's why I never tested years ago.  Plus the fact that at that time we were using town water with a neutral PH.  I used a product then that did not diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon.   On Glass Cages.  I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon).  Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto Type?) to go on top.  I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that high?  I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as well as a proper power filter and heater.   Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with "mail-order fish" exclusively!   When you have a chance,   Bill     --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM Bill, Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than having to do anything radical to it. You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on.   I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet.   Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well.  You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now?  Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them.  PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be.   Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists!  I am not condemning here just trying to learn more.    If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose.  Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems.  No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it.   What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem.  Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options?  On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago.  I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13.  I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about.   I'd appreciate any thoughts here.  Where do I start?  Test kit, by who?  The Tank it self?  What's my next move?  Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box.   bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31484	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey Aquarium Society. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on.   I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet.   Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well.  You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now?  Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them.  PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be.   Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists!  I am not condemning here just trying to learn more.    If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose.  Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems.  No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it.   What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem.  Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options?  On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago.  I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13.  I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about.   I'd appreciate any thoughts here.  Where do I start?  Test kit, by who?  The Tank it self?  What's my next move?  Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box.   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31485	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

The eclipse hoods are pretty good. I use one on an 18 gallon Tall tank. (Same foot print dimensions as a ten gallon only taller). Made by Marineland, a proven brand of quality products, unfortunately bought out but still producing things under the Marineland name. The only modification I did to mine was probably not necessary. I added a sponge filter to the intake of my filter pump. I get a little more surface area for filtration and it prolongs the filter cart. Lenny and others also have tricks for saving money on those filter carts. I don't even use them. I just remove the filter material after it is dirty and replace it with filter floss. The "filter floss" can be found in Wally World in the fabric section beings sold as polyester fill for sewing, much cheaper that way. They also sell these hoods for 20 gallon and I believe 29 gallon tanks. Of course if the tanks have the same footprint as the 20 and 29 gallon tanks but are taller, like my 18 Tall, you can use them on those tanks as well.  I know you can use two of them on a stadard 55 gallon tank as well, I think they are the 20 gallon hoods. I also have the eclipse 12, minibow front tank and it works well also. I have also had the 6 gallon elipse setups but the smaller you go the less stable and the more on top of maintenance you need to be. -Mike Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail.  Working ith all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came cross one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have.  It’s called n Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing.  As close as I can etermine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are ll in the hood!  Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly?  have seen only pictures with nothing first hand.  Perhaps a trip to Wally orld? hanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one ore favor?    Please don’t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two more onths.  Try looking at it this way:  “If you folks can get me off the ground ith this tank, you can kick back and say you’ve done it all! hanks Again for everything, ill -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 7:59 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! First on the tank, it’s a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. ’m thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank his wide).  I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet.  On he fish?  As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55’s or etter.  Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they re not too20crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, nd temperature.  Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank ates for a commujnty tank setup.                     crylic?  At this price most definitely!  Scratches?  Yes, I agree there too UT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also t’s greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value.  Bill ives in PA.  It’s getting cold in PA, very cold soon.  Now Bill lives for the old.  Bill’s fish do not.  I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish ll doing well at 78 degree’s with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. ow about those Abbreviations?  You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on ol’ ill.  I am going nut’s boogying back and fourth between Lenny’s abbreviation age. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)?  Thank god its here but I can’t get these two:  GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH tands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)---------and at my age, I’m not sure I ad it in the first place! ow I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail.  Working ith all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came cross one other type tank very similar to this s etup I now have.  It’s called n Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing.  As close as I can etermine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are ll in the hood!  Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly?  have seen only pictures with nothing first hand.  Perhaps a trip to Wally orld? hanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one ore favor?    Please don’t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two more onths.  Try looking at it this way:  “If you folks can get me off the ground ith this tank, you can kick back and say you’ve done it all! hanks Again for everything, ill __________________________________________________ o You Yahoo!? ired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around ttp://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`· .¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31486	From: bill1433	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

Mike, � Thanks very much.� I had concerns over all that stuff under-the-hood!� Don't know what's going to happen with the tank yet but I'll keep the list posted on the out-come good or bad. � Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 11:25 PM The eclipse hoods are pretty good. I use one on an 18 gallon Tall tank. (Same foot print dimensions as a ten gallon only taller). Made by Marineland, a proven brand of quality products, unfortunately bought out but still producing things under the Marineland name. The only modification I did to mine was probably not necessary. I added a sponge filter to the intake of my filter pump. I get a little more surface area for filtration and it prolongs the filter cart. Lenny and others also have tricks for saving money on those filter carts. I don't even use them. I just remove the filter material after it is dirty and replace it with filter floss. The "filter floss" can be found in Wally World in the fabric section beings sold as polyester fill for sewing, much cheaper that way. They also sell these hoods for 20 gallon and I believe 29 gallon tanks. Of course if the tanks have the same footprint as the 20 and 29 gallon tanks but are taller, like my 18 Tall, you can use them on those tanks as well.�� I know you can use two of them on a stadard 55 gallon tank as well, I think they are the 20 gallon hoods. I also have the eclipse 12, minibow front tank and it works well also. I have also had the 6 gallon elipse setups but the smaller you go the less stable and the more on top of maintenance you need to be. -Mike Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail.�� Working ith all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came cross one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have.�� It���s called n Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing.�� As close as I can etermine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are ll in the hood!�� Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly?�� have seen only pictures with nothing first hand.�� Perhaps a trip to Wally orld? hanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one ore favor?������ Please don���t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two more onths.�� Try looking at it this way:�� ���If you folks can get me off the ground ith this tank, you can kick back and say you���ve done it all! hanks Again for everything, ill -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 7:59 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! First on the tank, it���s a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. ���m thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank his wide).�� I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet.�� On he fish?�� As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55���s or etter.�� Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they re not too20crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, nd temperature.�� Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank ates for a commujnty tank setup. �������������������������������������� crylic?�� At this price most definitely!�� Scratches?�� Yes, I agree there too UT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also t���s greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value.�� Bill ives in PA.�� It���s getting cold in PA, very cold soon.�� Now Bill lives for the old.�� Bill���s fish do not.�� I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish ll doing well at 78 degree���s with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. ow about those Abbreviations?�� You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on ol��� ill.�� I am going nut���s boogying back and fourth between Lenny���s abbreviation age.��( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)?�� Thank god its here but I can���t get these two:�� GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH tands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)-------- -and at my age, I���m not sure I ad it in the first place! ow I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail.�� Working ith all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came cross one other type tank very similar to this s etup I now have.�� It���s called n Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing.�� As close as I can etermine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are ll in the hood!�� Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly?�� have seen only pictures with nothing first hand.�� Perhaps a trip to Wally orld? hanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one ore favor?������ Please don���t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two more onths.�� Try looking at it this way:�� ���If you folks can get me off the ground ith this tank, you can kick back and say you���ve done it all! hanks Again for everything, ill ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ o You Yahoo!? ired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around ttp://mail.yahoo. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ----- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ����`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> ��.������`��.��. , .������`��..><((((��> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> ..e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ��((((><.������`��.����.������`�� ..��<��((((><��.������`��.��. , .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31487	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

You're welcome Bill, Although I should have mentioned...as much as I like the eclipse hoods they may not work with every acrylic tank. The filter tube may hang down where the top of the tank is on an acrylic tank. I know for the smaller acrylic tanks the down tube often hits. These hoods do work great with glass tanks as there is usually not much more to a glass tank on top besides the lip. I am slightly partial to acrylic as I have moved my fish room about every 12 to 14 months the last 5 1/2 years and they are so much easier to move. That and I had industrial Arts in Junior high and we worked with acrylic so I know I can buff out scratches and repair cracks and leaks without having to strip a tank apart like on a glass tank. Before someone jumps in I will say Yes, you can remoe all the sealant and fis a leak or replace a panel on a glass tank. I just don't have the time for it at this point in life and prefer to fix acrylic tanks. Having said that I do have about 5 or more 55 gallon glass tanks, and as many acrylic. I also have many other sized glass tanks, lots of 29's, 20's 10's and other sizes and odd dimensions. Since I am so frugal I rarely buy new. I will buy a cheap 10 gallon glass tank when I need something, 10 bucks is hard to beat. Other wise most of my tanks are used. -Mike Mike, hanks very much.  I had concerns over all that stuff under-the-hood!  Don't now what's going to happen with the tank yet but I'll keep the list posted on he out-come good or bad. ill -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 8:30 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! Mike, hanks very much.  I had concerns over all that stuff under-the-hood!  Don't now what's going to happen with the tank yet but I'll keep the list posted on he out-come good or bad. ill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ate: Friday, October 17, 2008, 11:25 PM he eclipse hoods are pretty good. I use one on an 18 gallon Tall tank. (Same oot print dimensions as a ten gallon only taller). ade by Marineland, a proven brand of quality products, unfortunately bought out ut still producing things under the Marineland name. The only modification I did to mine was probably not necessary. I added a sponge ilter to the intake of my filter pump. I get a little more surface area for iltration and it prolongs the filter cart. Lenny and others also have tricks or saving money on those filter carts. I don't even use them. I just remove the ilter material after it is dirty and replace it with filter floss. The "filter loss" can be found in Wally World in the fabric section beings sold as olyester fill for sewing, much cheaper that way.0DThey also sell these hoods for 20 gallon and I believe 29 gallon tanks. Of ourse if the tanks have the same footprint as the 20 and 29 gallon tanks but re taller, like my 18 Tall, you can use them on those tanks as well.  I know you can use two of them on a stadard 55 gallon tank as well, I think they re the 20 gallon hoods. I also have the eclipse 12, minibow front tank and it works well also. I have lso had the 6 gallon elipse setups but the smaller you go the less stable and he more on top of maintenance you need to be. -Mike Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail.  orking th all the sites that you good people were ind enough to provide I came ross one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have.  It’s called n Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing.  As close as I can termine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are l in the hood!  Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly?  have seen only pictures with nothing first hand.  Perhaps a trip to Wally rld? hanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one re favor?    Please don’t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two ore nths.  Try looking at it this way:  “If you folks can get me off the ground ith this tank, you can kick back and say you’ve done it all! hanks Again for everything, ill -----Original Message----- rom: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> o: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> ent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 7:59 pm ubject: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! First on the tank, it’s a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. €™m thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank is wide).  I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet.  On e fish?  As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55’s or tter.  Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they e not too20crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, nd temperature.  Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank tes for a commujnty tank setup.  Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  rylic?  At this price most definitely!  Scratches?  Yes, I agree there too T; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also ’s greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value.  Bill ves in PA.  It’s=2 0getting cold in PA, very cold soon.  Now Bill lives for he ld.  Bill’s fish do not.  I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish ll doing well at 78 degree’s with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. ow about those Abbreviations?  You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on l’ ll.  I am going nut’s boogying back and fourth between Lenny’s bbreviation ge. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)?  Thank god its ere but I can’t get these two:  GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH ands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)-------- -and at my age, I’m not sure d it in the first place! ow I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail.  Working ith all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came ross one other type tank very similar to this s tup I now have.  It’s called Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing.  As close as I can termine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are l in the hood!  Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly?  have seen only pictures with nothing first hand.  Perhaps a trip to Wally rld? hanks to every single o ne of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one re favor?    Please don’t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two ore nths.  Try looking at it this way:  “If you folks can get me off the ground ith this tank, you can kick back and say you’ve done it all! hanks Again for everything, ill ___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ You Yahoo!? red of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around tp://mail.yahoo. com Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ----- lease, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´Â¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , ·´¯`·..><((((º> EASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the ply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`· .¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸ ¸. Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ndividual Email | Traditional ttp://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ o You Yahoo!? ired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around ttp://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31488	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

KH = Carbonate Hardness (but you might want to pay attention to them Kilowatt Hours this winter too! LOL) GH = General Hardness (sometimes called Alkalinity in some test kits and articles but that's not a good use of the term, IMO - In My Opinion, since it confuses the newbie reader, since we also use the terms alkaline and basic when talking about pH) Don't I have them on my Dictionary/Acronym page? Yep, I just checked! http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/04/dictionary-acronyms-abbreviations-and. html Here's a simple Water Chemistry page that covers pH, GH and KH in the simplest way that I've found. http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/waterchemistry.htm The page references aquatic turtles but the water chemistry is still the same. The Cookie-Cutter set-ups are set-ups that have been proven to work by experienced cichlid keepers so you aren't having to experiment with mixing fish, only to find out they aren't compatible. They're called "Cookie-Cutter" because they are meant to be uniformed/standardized... like a cookie-cutter does when making cookies. Aren't you planning on baking Christmas Tree sugar cookies to send to all of us this year? You'll need that Christmas Tree cookie-cutter or you'll be spending a lot of time hand cutting all them cookies. LOL The Eclipse 12 is only a 12 gallon tank but yes, all of the "innards" are in the hood. They're expensive in my opinion. You can get a 10G kit for much less or even a 55G starter kit at Wally-World for less than an Eclipse 12... or around the same price since I think the Eclipse 12 sells for around $100.00. That may be an option if you haven't looked at it. The Walmart 55G Starter Kit includes the tank, filter system (which you might replace in a year or so to something bigger/better), hood and light (I think) and some other goodies. If you're on a budget, this is definitely something I would consider. I was at the Walmart.com site looking for their online prices on the 10G and 55G starter kits but they do not sell them online but I did see the Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit for around $15.00 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635399. Here's the link to the 55G starter kit for reference. It says the manufacturer is Perfecto which is an OK brand. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10312736 The website says prices vary by store but I seem to remember it being less than $100.00 for the entire kit when I was looking at one a couple of years ago. Get you some sand or small pea gravel at one of the local garden/stone centers.. where you can also get the bigger rocks/stones that you'll need much cheaper also. Read lots of articles on rock-scaping a cichlid tank so you don't run into too many problems. I didn't have a link to a fave on this subject so I peeked at the list of articles http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_setup_list.php on the Cichlid site and I did see this article on Rocks http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php. They had lots of other How-To articles on the main "list" page. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! First on the tank, it's a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. I'm thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank this wide). I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet. On the fish? As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55's or better. Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they are not too crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, and temperature. Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank mates for a commujnty tank setup. Acrylic? At this price most definitely! Scratches? Yes, I agree there too BUT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also it's greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value. Bill lives in PA. It's getting cold in PA, very cold soon. Now Bill lives for the cold. Bill's fish do not. I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish all doing well at 78 degree's with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. Now about those Abbreviations? You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on ol' bill. I am going nut's boogying back and fourth between Lenny's abbreviation page. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)? Thank god its there but I can't get these two: GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH stands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)---------and at my age, I'm not sure I had it in the first place! Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail. Working with all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came across one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have. It's called an Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing. As close as I can determine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are all in the hood! Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly? I have seen only pictures with nothing first hand. Perhaps a trip to Wally World? Thanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one more favor? Please don't anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two more months. Try looking at it this way: "If you folks can get me off the ground with this tank, you can kick back and say you've done it all! Thanks Again for everything, Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 10:49:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31489	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: plant question

Yes, it is photos 5 and 6. They are they same bulb from two different angles, sorry I should have been more clear. These are the bulbs I got in that misc package from petco. I did some more searching and it may be a bulb for a dwarf lilly. I guess only time will tell! :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 22:08:53 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] plant question Is this the plant bulbhttp://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/907c?b=5<http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/view/907c?b=5&m=f&o=0> &m=f&o=0 ?If not that one, check your albumhttp://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/907c and leteveryone know which photo is the one. It looks like pictures 5 and 6 are the same plant from different angles. Idon't recognize it.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:57 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] plant questionAnyone have any clue what type of plant I have growing? its dark red, camefrom a bulb and has three points on each leaf. I have photos inCheeseyPhotos album.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknown_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008Tested on: 10/17/2008 10:08:53 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31490	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

I just happened to have to go to my local Wally-World SuperCenter for a gallon of milk (all the normal stores were close) and while there, decided to check on the prices of the starter kits. The 10G kit was @ $30.00, a 23G kit was @ $60.00. They are remodeling so I didn't even see the shelving area for the larger tanks/kits but the employee nearby said he was pretty sure they sold the 55G kits for either $129 or $149. The 23G kit included the tank, HOB filter system, a 100W heater and the hood/light fixture and the employee said the 55G kit also included everything but the gravel, decorations and fish. They did have a 55G tank stand for $70.00 (now I remember why I built my own for $20.00) .... and yes, they had the plain old 10G tank for $10.87 which is a good thing for every fish keeper to have for a quarantine/hospital tank... but a clear plastic Sterilite storage tub works OK too. On a side note, Mike, I notice you still have the issue with the disappearing first letters on random words in the original message in your replies. Have you ever figured out why? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! You're welcome Bill, Although I should have mentioned...as much as I like the eclipse hoods they may not work with every acrylic tank. The filter tube may hang down where the top of the tank is on an acrylic tank. I know for the smaller acrylic tanks the down tube often hits. These hoods do work great with glass tanks as there is usually not much more to a glass tank on top besides the lip. I am slightly partial to acrylic as I have moved my fish room about every 12 to 14 months the last 5 1/2 years and they are so much easier to move. That and I had industrial Arts in Junior high and we worked with acrylic so I know I can buff out scratches and repair cracks and leaks without having to strip a tank apart like on a glass tank. Before someone jumps in I will say Yes, you can remoe all the sealant and fis a leak or replace a panel on a glass tank. I just don't have the time for it at this point in life and prefer to fix acrylic tanks. Having said that I do have about 5 or more 55 gallon glass tanks, and as many acrylic. I also have many other sized glass tanks, lots of 29's, 20's 10's and other sizes and odd dimensions. Since I am so frugal I rarely buy new. I will buy a cheap 10 gallon glass tank when I need something, 10 bucks is hard to beat. Other wise most of my tanks are used. -Mike Mike, hanks very much. I had concerns over all that stuff under-the-hood! Don't now what's going to happen with the tank yet but I'll keep the list posted on he out-come good or bad. ill -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 8:30 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! Mike, hanks very much. I had concerns over all that stuff under-the-hood! Don't now what's going to happen with the tank yet but I'll keep the list posted on he out-come good or bad. ill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > wrote: From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ate: Friday, October 17, 2008, 11:25 PM he eclipse hoods are pretty good. I use one on an 18 gallon Tall tank. (Same oot print dimensions as a ten gallon only taller). ade by Marineland, a proven brand of quality products, unfortunately bought out ut still producing things under the Marineland name. The only modification I did to mine was probably not necessary. I added a sponge ilter to the intake of my filter pump. I get a little more surface area for iltration and it prolongs the filter cart. Lenny and others also have tricks or saving money on those filter carts. I don't even use them. I just remove the ilter material after it is dirty and replace it with filter floss. The "filter loss" can be found in Wally World in the fabric section beings sold as olyester fill for sewing, much cheaper that way.0DThey also sell these hoods for 20 gallon and I believe 29 gallon tanks. Of ourse if the tanks have the same footprint as the 20 and 29 gallon tanks but re taller, like my 18 Tall, you can use them on those tanks as well. I know you can use two of them on a stadard 55 gallon tank as well, I think they re the 20 gallon hoods. I also have the eclipse 12, minibow front tank and it works well also. I have lso had the 6 gallon elipse setups but the smaller you go the less stable and he more on top of maintenance you need to be. -Mike Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail. orking th all the sites that you good people were ind enough to provide I came ross one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have. It’s called n Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing. As close as I can termine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are l in the hood! Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly? have seen only pictures with nothing first hand. Perhaps a trip to Wally rld? hanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one re favor?   Please don’t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two ore nths. Try looking at it this way: “If you folks can get me off the ground ith this tank, you can kick back and say you’ve done it all! hanks Again for everything, ill -----Original Message----- rom: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> o: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> ent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 7:59 pm ubject: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! First on the tank, it’s a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. €™m thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank is wide). I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet. On e fish? As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55’s or tter. Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they e not too20crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, nd temperature. Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank tes for a commujnty tank setup.                   rylic? At this price most definitely! Scratches? Yes, I agree there too T; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also ’s greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value. Bill ves in PA. It’s=2 0getting cold in PA, very cold soon. Now Bill lives for he ld. Bill’s fish do not. I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish ll doing well at 78 degree’s with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. ow about those Abbreviations? You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on l’ ll. I am going nut’s boogying back and fourth between Lenny’s bbreviation ge. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)? Thank god its ere but I can’t get these two: GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH ands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)-------- -and at my age, I’m not sure d it in the first place! ow I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail. Working ith all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came ross one other type tank very similar to this s tup I now have. It’s called Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing. As close as I can termine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are l in the hood! Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly? have seen only pictures with nothing first hand. Perhaps a trip to Wally rld? hanks to every single o ne of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one re favor?   Please don’t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two ore nths. Try looking at it this way: “If you folks can get me off the ground ith this tank, you can kick back and say you’ve done it all! hanks Again for everything, ill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 12:18:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31491	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

Darn, No Lenny, never did figure it out. When I got the email back I noticed in my poor typing an abundance of missing letters, but not at the beginning of words. Time to go back to using spell check again. Good catch on the tanks at wally world, I forgot all about their 55 gallon tanks. Didn't they used to have large bowfront tanks at one time? I am not a huge bowfront fan, to me they are a tank that may need more work for a stand but Bill may take a fancy to them if they are available. -Mike On a side note, Mike, I notice you still have the issue with the disappearing first letters on random words in the original message in your replies. Have you ever figured out why? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:18 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! I just happened to have to go to my local Wally-World SuperCenter for a gallon of milk (all the normal stores were close) and while there, decided to check on the prices of the starter kits. The 10G kit was @ $30.00, a 23G kit was @ $60.00. They are remodeling so I didn't even see the shelving area for the larger tanks/kits but the employee nearby said he was pretty sure they sold the 55G kits for either $129 or $149. The 23G kit included the tank, HOB fi lter system, a 100W heater and the hood/light fixture and the employee said the 55G kit also included everything but the gravel, decorations and fish. They did have a 55G tank stand for $70.00 (now I remember why I built my own for $20.00) .... and yes, they had the plain old 10G tank for $10.87 which is a good thing for every fish keeper to have for a quarantine/hospital tank... but a clear plastic Sterilite storage tub works OK too. On a side note, Mike, I notice you still have the issue with the disappearing first letters on random words in the original message in your replies. Have you ever figured out why? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! You're welcome Bill, Although I should have mentioned...as much as I like the eclipse hoods they may not work with every acrylic tank. The filter tube may hang down where the top of the tank is on an acrylic tank. I know for the smaller acrylic tanks the down tube often hits. These hoods do work great with glass tanks as there is usually not much more to a glass tank on top besides the lip. I am slightly partial to acrylic20as I have moved my fish room about every 12 to 14 months the last 5 1/2 years and they are so much easier to move. That and I had industrial Arts in Junior high and we worked with acrylic so I know I can buff out scratches and repair cracks and leaks without having to strip a tank apart like on a glass tank. Before someone jumps in I will say Yes, you can remoe all the sealant and fis a leak or replace a panel on a glass tank. I just don't have the time for it at this point in life and prefer to fix acrylic tanks. Having said that I do have about 5 or more 55 gallon glass tanks, and as many acrylic. I also have many other sized glass tanks, lots of 29's, 20's 10's and other sizes and odd dimensions. Since I am so frugal I rarely buy new. I will buy a cheap 10 gallon glass tank when I need something, 10 bucks is hard to beat. Other wise most of my tanks are used. -Mike Mike, hanks very much. I had concerns over all that stuff under-the-hood! Don't now what's going to happen with the tank yet but I'll keep the list posted on he out-come good or bad. ill -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 8:30 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! Mike, hanks very much. I had concerns over all that stuff under-the-hood! Don't now wh at's going to happen with the tank yet but I'll keep the list posted on he out-come good or bad. ill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > wrote: From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ate: Friday, October 17, 2008, 11:25 PM he eclipse hoods are pretty good. I use one on an 18 gallon Tall tank. (Same oot print dimensions as a ten gallon only taller). ade by Marineland, a proven brand of quality products, unfortunately bought out ut still producing things under the Marineland name. The only modification I did to mine was probably not necessary. I added a sponge ilter to the intake of my filter pump. I get a little more surface area for iltration and it prolongs the filter cart. Lenny and others also have tricks or saving money on those filter carts. I don't even use them. I just remove the ilter material after it is dirty and replace it with filter floss. The "filter loss" can be found in Wally World in the fabric section beings sold as olyester fill for sewing, much cheaper that way.0DThey also sell these hoods for 20 gallon and I believe 29 gallon tanks. Of ourse if the tanks have the same footprint as the 20 and 29 gallon tanks but re taller, like my 18 Tall, you can use them on those tanks as well. I know you can use20two of them on a stadard 55 gallon tank as well, I think they re the 20 gallon hoods. I also have the eclipse 12, minibow front tank and it works well also. I have lso had the 6 gallon elipse setups but the smaller you go the less stable and he more on top of maintenance you need to be. -Mike Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail. orking th all the sites that you good people were ind enough to provide I came ross one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have. It’s called n Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing. As close as I can termine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are l in the hood! Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly? have seen only pictures with nothing first hand. Perhaps a trip to Wally rld? hanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one re favor?   Please don’t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two ore nths. Try looking at it this way: “If you folks can get me off the ground ith this tank, you can kick back and say you’ve done it all! hanks Again for everything, ill -----Original Message----- rom: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> o: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> ent: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 7:59 pm ubject: [AquaticLife] To o All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! First on the tank, it’s a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. €™m thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank is wide). I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet. On e fish? As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55’s or tter. Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they e not too20crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, nd temperature. Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank tes for a commujnty tank setup.                   rylic? At this price most definitely! Scratches? Yes, I agree there too T; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also ’s greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value. Bill ves in PA. It’s=2 0getting cold in PA, very cold soon. Now Bill lives for he ld. Bill’s fish do not. I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish ll doing well at 78 degree’s with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. ow about those Abbreviations? You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on l’ ll . I am going nut’s boogying back and fourth between Lenny’s bbreviation ge. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)? Thank god its ere but I can’t get these two: GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH ands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)-------- -and at my age, I’m not sure d it in the first place! ow I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail. Working ith all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came ross one other type tank very similar to this s tup I now have. It’s called Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing. As close as I can termine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are l in the hood! Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly? have seen only pictures with nothing first hand. Perhaps a trip to Wally rld? hanks to every single o ne of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one re favor?   Please don’t anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two ore nths. Try looking at it this way: “If you folks can get me off the ground ith this tank, you can kick back and say you’ve done it all! hanks Again for everything, ill _____ avast! Antivirus <h ttp://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 12:18:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31492	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

That's a 40G long which is 48" long. And there ARE some combinations that will work in a 36" tank, but they are more limited and more risky. Footprint is everything with Africans because they all want a piece of the bottom.gallons not so important. In the wild the fish claim territories of a square meter. From Malawi you could do a single species tank of dwarf mbuna or a small, peaceful peacock like Aulonocara Basenchi. From Lake Tanganyika you could do two pairs as suggested. For example I have a pair of Altolamprologus Calvus and a pair of Lamprologus Caudopunctatus in a 36" tank. I have no experience with the Victorians. If you decide to go cichlids of any kind, I highly recommend cichlid-forum. The articles and cookie cutters are VERY helpful, but it's best to also post your plans and ask for feedback because some of the articles are dated. They were contributed by readers, so they are not "updated" or "replaced" as new information becomes available. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Donna, I'm no expert on African Cichlids so I'll leave it to the experts and according to this article from a respected site, there are quite a few different African Cichlid combinations that could be housed in a 40G long tank... with fish from either Lakes Tanganyika, Victoria and Malawi and even a Victoria/Malawi combo. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php> forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php These Cookie-Cutter set-ups for many tank sizes http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php are tried and true set-ups. It's true that you have to be more careful when cleaning an acrylic tank and maybe with the rocks and sand from an African Cichlid tank, they would have a higher chance of getting scratched up so if Bill does have to go with the African Cichlids, a glass tank may be a better choice. The pro side of acrylic is the scratches can be buffed out with a $25.00 polishing kit available at places like DrsFosterSmith.com and others. With glass, you would have to have a pro do it with special equipment for polishing glass... obviously at a higher cost... but since it's much harder to scratch glass, I would probably lean towards glass with the rocks and sand substrate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 9:14:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31493	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Well, on occasion. They ARE a pretty scary group. Except for Ray of course. I buy fish from them though! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey Aquarium Society. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31494	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Steve are you coming to the NJAS auction next weekend? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Well, on occasion. They ARE a pretty scary group. Except for Ray of course. I buy fish from them though! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey Aquarium Society. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31495	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Why are you saying, "That's a 40G long which is 48" long."? I'm guessing in reference to the Cookie-Cutter suggestions for the 40G Long tank. According to Bill and GlassCages.com, a 40G long tank is 36" x 18" x 13"tall but it's a good catch by you to bring up that a 40G long may well be a 48" x 12" tank. I'm so used to the 55G being the standard bearer 48" x 12" footprint that I didn't think to double/triple check Bill and GlassCages.com. I do see on another tank guide list http://www.alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm that a 40G "Breeder" has those 36" x 18" dimensions and the 40G long has a 48" x 12" footprint as you indicate. Regardless of which list is accurate in the "name", the 36" x 18" footprint of the 40G Breeder (36" x 18"=648 sq. in.) actually has 12.5% more surface area and bottom area than a 40G long (48" x 12"=576 sq. in.), so it may actually be better for the territorial aspects of the fish. I guess that needs to be researched a little further. What do you think about the added territory aspects of the 40G Breeder over the 40G Long? This all may be moot since we haven't heard back from Bill about the 55G Starter Kit from Wally-World (WalMart) which would be a very cost effective way of getting started and the 55G has the 48" x 12" footprint so it could have all of the Cookie-Cutter suggestions of either the 40G Long or 55G Cookie-Cutter set-ups. Why do you say the Cookie-Cutter articles are not updated? According to the byline on them, they are written by the "CF Moderators" so I would expect they could be edited/updated as needed... especially as scientific names change. I know that cichlid keepers are very keen on using proper scientific names so I'm sure they would at least update the articles when that information might change. It would be disappointing if they didn't update them as new information becomes available. That's one of the reasons I started my blog... so I could update/edit things as I find out new information and this wasn't so easy when publishing articles on other websites. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 6:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! That's a 40G long which is 48" long. And there ARE some combinations that will work in a 36" tank, but they are more limited and more risky. Footprint is everything with Africans because they all want a piece of the bottom.gallons not so important. In the wild the fish claim territories of a square meter. From Malawi you could do a single species tank of dwarf mbuna or a small, peaceful peacock like Aulonocara Basenchi. From Lake Tanganyika you could do two pairs as suggested. For example I have a pair of Altolamprologus Calvus and a pair of Lamprologus Caudopunctatus in a 36" tank. I have no experience with the Victorians. If you decide to go cichlids of any kind, I highly recommend cichlid-forum. The articles and cookie cutters are VERY helpful, but it's best to also post your plans and ask for feedback because some of the articles are dated. They were contributed by readers, so they are not "updated" or "replaced" as new information becomes available. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Donna, I'm no expert on African Cichlids so I'll leave it to the experts and according to this article from a respected site, there are quite a few different African Cichlid combinations that could be housed in a 40G long tank... with fish from either Lakes Tanganyika, Victoria and Malawi and even a Victoria/Malawi combo. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php> > > forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php These Cookie-Cutter set-ups for many tank sizes http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> > > forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php are tried and true set-ups. It's true that you have to be more careful when cleaning an acrylic tank and maybe with the rocks and sand from an African Cichlid tank, they would have a higher chance of getting scratched up so if Bill does have to go with the African Cichlids, a glass tank may be a better choice. The pro side of acrylic is the scratches can be buffed out with a $25.00 polishing kit available at places like DrsFosterSmith.com and others. With glass, you would have to have a pro do it with special equipment for polishing glass... obviously at a higher cost... but since it's much harder to scratch glass, I would probably lean towards glass with the rocks and sand substrate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 7:09:39 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31496	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Discontinued Tank Stand

Any ideas how to find a specific, discontinued stand? I know that local fish stores only keep a couple of the most common, inexpensive stands in stock. For the last year I have been planning to buy a 75G tank and stand to match my 125G All-Glass, Mission Style, Maple color stand. Now I find out Aqueon has discontinued the Maple color in this style stand. I have posted on fish forum trading posts, craigslist and emailed a bunch of local fish stores. I have email Aqueon. Know anyone who has one or ideas on how to find one? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31497	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

You can see in the cookie cutter article you referenced that the tanks have both gallons and dimensions and the one you linked was 48" long. Length is most important in providing territories so that the fish can feel isolated from each other to limit aggression (translate that to "deaths"). Square inches are good too, but length is #1. For territorial African cichlids, you can put more fish in a 40G 48" tank than a 60G 36" tank. More individuals, more species and the extra foot opens your options to include all the "full size" mbuna species as well. I have belonged to cichlid-forum since 2005 and read most of the African articles and all Malawi posts since that time. I have also read the articles and posted my plans only to have certain aspects shot down by the mods. So my advice is.read the articles, formulate a plan, and then post your plans for fine tuning. They post new articles, but I have not seen the existing ones updated. They are still VERY good mind you. But sometimes a particular reader advances a certain theory in an article that is not agreed with by the majority of the mods and experienced posters. For example, there is an article about mixing peacock breeding groups in a tank that can successfully produce pure fry. Most disagree with this. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 8:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Why are you saying, "That's a 40G long which is 48" long."? I'm guessing in reference to the Cookie-Cutter suggestions for the 40G Long tank. According to Bill and GlassCages.com, a 40G long tank is 36" x 18" x 13"tall but it's a good catch by you to bring up that a 40G long may well be a 48" x 12" tank. I'm so used to the 55G being the standard bearer 48" x 12" footprint that I didn't think to double/triple check Bill and GlassCages.com. I do see on another tank guide list http://www.alysta. <http://www.alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm> com/books/fishtank.htm that a 40G "Breeder" has those 36" x 18" dimensions and the 40G long has a 48" x 12" footprint as you indicate. Regardless of which list is accurate in the "name", the 36" x 18" footprint of the 40G Breeder (36" x 18"=648 sq. in.) actually has 12.5% more surface area and bottom area than a 40G long (48" x 12"=576 sq. in.), so it may actually be better for the territorial aspects of the fish. I guess that needs to be researched a little further. What do you think about the added territory aspects of the 40G Breeder over the 40G Long? This all may be moot since we haven't heard back from Bill about the 55G Starter Kit from Wally-World (WalMart) which would be a very cost effective way of getting started and the 55G has the 48" x 12" footprint so it could have all of the Cookie-Cutter suggestions of either the 40G Long or 55G Cookie-Cutter set-ups. Why do you say the Cookie-Cutter articles are not updated? According to the byline on them, they are written by the "CF Moderators" so I would expect they could be edited/updated as needed... especially as scientific names change. I know that cichlid keepers are very keen on using proper scientific names so I'm sure they would at least update the articles when that information might change. It would be disappointing if they didn't update them as new information becomes available. That's one of the reasons I started my blog... so I could update/edit things as I find out new information and this wasn't so easy when publishing articles on other websites. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 6:29 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! That's a 40G long which is 48" long. And there ARE some combinations that will work in a 36" tank, but they are more limited and more risky. Footprint is everything with Africans because they all want a piece of the bottom.gallons not so important. In the wild the fish claim territories of a square meter. From Malawi you could do a single species tank of dwarf mbuna or a small, peaceful peacock like Aulonocara Basenchi. From Lake Tanganyika you could do two pairs as suggested. For example I have a pair of Altolamprologus Calvus and a pair of Lamprologus Caudopunctatus in a 36" tank. I have no experience with the Victorians. If you decide to go cichlids of any kind, I highly recommend cichlid-forum. The articles and cookie cutters are VERY helpful, but it's best to also post your plans and ask for feedback because some of the articles are dated. They were contributed by readers, so they are not "updated" or "replaced" as new information becomes available. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Donna, I'm no expert on African Cichlids so I'll leave it to the experts and according to this article from a respected site, there are quite a few different African Cichlid combinations that could be housed in a 40G long tank... with fish from either Lakes Tanganyika, Victoria and Malawi and even a Victoria/Malawi combo. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php> forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php> forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php> forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php> > > forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php These Cookie-Cutter set-ups for many tank sizes http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> > > forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php are tried and true set-ups. It's true that you have to be more careful when cleaning an acrylic tank and maybe with the rocks and sand from an African Cichlid tank, they would have a higher chance of getting scratched up so if Bill does have to go with the African Cichlids, a glass tank may be a better choice. The pro side of acrylic is the scratches can be buffed out with a $25.00 polishing kit available at places like DrsFosterSmith.com and others. With glass, you would have to have a pro do it with special equipment for polishing glass... obviously at a higher cost... but since it's much harder to scratch glass, I would probably lean towards glass with the rocks and sand substrate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 7:09:39 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31498	From: ajb21130	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: PH question

Lenny, Thanks i will do that with testing the water like you said , and testing for everything else as well. I have read some of your articles about starting a fw planted it is just taking me a very long time to plan everything and do my research i have an 11 month old son with Spina Bifida so taking care of him is a handfull at times lol . By the way just a note to all October is spina bifida awareness month. SB is a defect of the spinal cord and has many more problems that come along with it. I am the one who wants to start the 40 something corner tank we have talked before about substrates and how to start a planted fw. I appreciate your advice as well as the rest of this groups very very much. I have had aquariums before but mostly just 10 gal with goldfish and i did do water tests and things as such with them but never to much detail. I want to do everything right with this tank because it is much larger and i will have much more money invested in it. As for the type of tetras im not sure yet i was going to decide on the types after i have the tank up and running and my plants are doing okay. I do like the neons, cardinals, and rummy nose but i plant to do much research on what is compatable with one another and the water types before i purchase so you guys dont have to worry!!! Once again thanks to all you guys are great and very funny to if i may add lol!!! Amber --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > Your pH of 7.6 is fine... for most commonly available aquarium plants and > for most common community fish (and probably for many of the uncommon ones > also). There is much too much emphasis or fear instilled by the pet stores > trying to get people to have 7.0 pH water. Fish rarely have 7.0 pH water in > the wild and usually acclimate to a wide range of pH throughout the day and > seasons. Further, if your baseline pH is actually 7.6, it will come down > naturally in your tank once the ecology of the tank is established. > > Was that test right out of the tap? If so, fill a large open plastic or > glass container with water out of the filtered tap. Test it. Add your > dechlor product used for fish. Test it. Wait 24 hours. Test it. Wait > another 24 hours. Test it. That 48 hour test will be more like what your > water will really be like. It's very common for water right out the tap to > have much different test results compared to after it's had a chance to air > out and stabilize. For more details on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline", > see the article on my blog. It would also be a good idea to test your tap > for things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH. > > What size tank are you planning and what kind of tetras were you interested > in? > > Here's a couple of simple startup articles on a planted tank. > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htm > > http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ajb21130 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] PH question > > Hi guys, > Well i am still in planning stages of starting my fw planted. > I decided to test my tap waters ph to see what it was. > I use a 3 stage filter on my tap for my sons bottles so obviously I will > give my fishies filtered water as they will be my babies too!!! > The PH of my water is 7.6 > > My question is... is this too high a PH for plants ? I know its too high for > tetras , what i really had my heart set on by the way. And will the water > conditioner effect the ph any? Also since i really had my heart set on > tetras I know that they make a ph down should i try to change the ph of my > water so i can have the fish i want or should i just go with fish that will > tolerate the PH of my water un altered. > > Thanks for any answers guys you all are great i was apart of a few other > groups but i withdrew my membership with them now its down to 3 groups and > possibly only 2 here very soon . > > Happy weekend to all, > Amber > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-0, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 7:43:16 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31499	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Are you a member? If so, are you going to the NEC next March? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Well, on occasion. They ARE a pretty scary group. Except for Ray of course. I buy fish from them though! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey Aquarium Society. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31500	From: ajb21130	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace.com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead------and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31501	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Discontinued Tank Stand

I think it's going to be pure luck and timing to find someone selling a used one if Aqueon can't help. Have you checked with them as to where they got them from? Considering so many things are manufactured outside of the USA, there's a chance that whoever was making them for Aqueon (China, Mexico, etc.) might still be making them for some other brand/distributor. Another option. Considering stands/canopies for that size tank probably cost over $500.00, you might check with a local sole proprietor type furniture or cabinet maker to see if they could duplicate the style/finish on your current stand. I have a friend down here that restores and refinishes antique and heirloom furniture for a living and he also builds matching pieces and I bet he'd be able to build a matching stand/canopy for the price range of a new set. He's been a busy bee since Katrina. Keep searching Google for the keywords on a regular basis and you might get a hit to a Craigslist or eBay listing. I just did a search on - aqueon mission maple stand - and got 203 hits. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > &q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search You'd have to see if any are applicable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Discontinued Tank Stand Any ideas how to find a specific, discontinued stand? I know that local fish stores only keep a couple of the most common, inexpensive stands in stock. For the last year I have been planning to buy a 75G tank and stand to match my 125G All-Glass, Mission Style, Maple color stand. Now I find out Aqueon has discontinued the Maple color in this style stand. I have posted on fish forum trading posts, craigslist and emailed a bunch of local fish stores. I have email Aqueon. Know anyone who has one or ideas on how to find one? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 8:07:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31502	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

And just why would you be asking this? What are you implying by that remark <g>? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey Aquarium Society. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. > However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. > > Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to > scratch, IMO. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. >   > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. >   > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well.  You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now?  Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them.  PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. >   > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine > Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists!  I am not condemning here > just trying to learn more.  >   > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose.  Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems.  No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > >   > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem.  Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options?  > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago.  I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13.  > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. >   > I'd appreciate any thoughts here.  Where do I start?  Test kit, by who?  The > Tank it self?  What's my next move?  Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. >   > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31503	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

It is a 4 hour drive, up I95, so I will not be there. I had thought about going up for the weekend, but, it does not look like it will happen. I am, however, headed over to the Catfish Convention over in Laurel, MD, bit. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Steve are you coming to the NJAS auction next weekend? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Well, on occasion. They ARE a pretty scary group. Except for Ray of course. I buy fish from them though! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey Aquarium Society. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31504	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

That Fish Place is in Lancaster, PA. Watch out for the buggies up there, as that is the Amish form of transportation. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ajb21130 Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace.com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead------and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31505	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Mainly the boys from Jersey City, though Chuck settled in Florida after his long vacation--don't know if he is still there, or has moved back up to Jersey. I last saw him in the spring at the NEC. Don't know if he will be hanging around the Catfish Convention today, but he was there last year, along with Ginny and her husband Charlie. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! And just why would you be asking this? What are you implying by that remark <g>? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey Aquarium Society. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. > However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. > > Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to > scratch, IMO. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. >   > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. >   > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well.  You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now?  Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them.  PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. >   > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine > Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists!  I am not condemning here > just trying to learn more.  >   > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose.  Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems.  No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > >   > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem.  Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options?  > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago.  I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13.  > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. >   > I'd appreciate any thoughts here.  Where do I start?  Test kit, by who?  The > Tank it self?  What's my next move?  Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. >   > Bill > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31506	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Thanks for the support here, Donna. Well, the group may have been called many things, among them somewhat discriminatory (decidedly Cichlid oriented), but "pretty scary"? Okay, but then I take it that you must be referring to some of those monster fish (Dovii, etc.) some of them are keeping (LOL). Didn't realize the gang were people to be alarmed by (I'll have to fill them in on that one <g>). About the only thing they'd terrorize might be a pond of daphnia. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Well, on occasion. They ARE a pretty scary group. Except for Ray of > course. I buy fish from them though! > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey > Aquarium Society. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. > However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. > > Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to > scratch, IMO. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine > Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here > just trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > Bill > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31507	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

That would probably include Kevin -- he's a pussycat! (LOL); seriously, he's a good guy (not "scary"). I guess you know Mike Sheridan passed (I believe he moved to around the Jersey City area, after being in Dearfield Beach, FL). Mike was a good friend to all, including myself, as we both went way back as ACA charter members. Yes, Chuck is still there in Fort Lauderdale (Lauderdale Lakes); I expect he'll be up here next weekend for our show. Don't know if he's going the Catfish Convention, but a bunch of the other guys are going (I just can't make it this time). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Mainly the boys from Jersey City, though Chuck settled in Florida after his long vacation--don't know if he is still there, or has moved back up to Jersey. I last saw him in the spring at the NEC. Don't know if he will be hanging around the Catfish Convention today, but he was there last year, along with Ginny and her husband Charlie. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! > > And just why would you be asking this? What are you implying by that > remark <g>? Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North > Jersey Aquarium Society. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with > pH=7.8. > > However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. > > > > Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy > to > > scratch, IMO. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > > To: Fish Group > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the > past > > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I > would like > > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > >   > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to > hear > > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high > mineral > > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab > right now) > > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium > that I > > haven't even purchased yet. > >   > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have > with a few > > fish in it that are doing well.  You might ask how I accomplish > this with > > this type of water we have now?  Simple, I buy and use only > distilled water > > for them.  PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- > something > > gallon tank for the future they could be. > >   > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > > something different back then. They were called Marine > > Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists!  I am not > condemning here > > just trying to learn more.  > >   > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here > after > > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > > certainly have purpose.  Obviously you folks today are much more > > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone > tell me > > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I > working > > with, considering my current problems.  No, we cannot go out and > buy that > > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I > could > > afford it. > > > >   > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which > could > > neutralize this problem.  Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only > options?  > > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 > miles of > > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased > their fish)? > > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already > mentioned on > > this list sometime ago.  I was over on their web-site and found I > tank I'd > > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x > 18 x 13.  > > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from > this list > > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw > for sale > > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > >   > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here.  Where do I start?  Test kit, by > who?  The > > Tank it self?  What's my next move?  Considering it could take > months to > > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to > lift the > > tank out of its shipping box. > >   > > Bill > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31508	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours

I have well water so my water does not contain chlorine, I usually toss Stress Coat in when I am medicating for something fin/scale related.  I think of it as doing the same as a relaxing bubble bath for the ill!    Chris in VA --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 12:39 PM I keep MelaFix and PimaFix since they both have long shelf lives as long as they are kept tightly capped. I still have some Jungle Brand antibacterial and antiparasite food left over from when I adopted some sick fish a while back but I wouldn't keep it on hand unless I had a LOT of tanks and fish since I will likely lose most of the food in these bottles to expiration issues. If those other meds have a long shelf life (several years), then I guess it's not bad but I don't think they are needed as a general rule unless someone has a fish room and/or are getting their MTS (multiple tank syndrome) fixes (i.e.-adding lots of new tanks). ;-) On a side note, I never really thought of Stress-Coat as a medicine. It's touted more as a dechlor with added Aloe Vera and slime coat enhancers and mostly marketed towards new fish keepers... who may not realize it's not needed. I wouldn't use it as a dechlor product since there is no need for those other things being dumped into a tank on a continual basis and plain table salt is a better stress reliever and slime coat enhancer. The chloride in salt increases gill function and efficiency so the fish can breath easier and get more O2 from each breath and the sodium is a mild irritant so the fish create a thicker slime coat on their own. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:02 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:39:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31509	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!  They are located in Lancaster, PA.  I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices!  :D   Chris in VA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@...> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31510	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

\\Steve//, Had hoped to possibly see you at the NJAS Show next weekend; sorry to see that won't be the case, but I can understand the long drive precluding those plans. Hope to see you at the NEC next March, weather permitting; unless you're planning on going to Joe Ferdenzi's (Greater City A.S.) AFISH Convention -- then I'll see you sooner, but than even a longer haul for you. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > It is a 4 hour drive, up I95, so I will not be there. I had thought about going up for the weekend, but, it does not look like it will happen. I am, however, headed over to the Catfish Convention over in Laurel, MD, bit. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve are you coming to the NJAS auction next weekend? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > Well, on occasion. They ARE a pretty scary group. Except for Ray of > course. I buy fish from them though! > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey > Aquarium Society. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. > However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. > > Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to > scratch, IMO. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine > Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here > just trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31511	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

I think that Mike was still in Florida when he dies, what, 2 years ago now? We missed at the NEC last year, but I had a bunch of other stuff going on as well that weekend, and had to keep going back to my room to do stuff. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! That would probably include Kevin -- he's a pussycat! (LOL); seriously, he's a good guy (not "scary"). I guess you know Mike Sheridan passed (I believe he moved to around the Jersey City area, after being in Dearfield Beach, FL). Mike was a good friend to all, including myself, as we both went way back as ACA charter members. Yes, Chuck is still there in Fort Lauderdale (Lauderdale Lakes); I expect he'll be up here next weekend for our show. Don't know if he's going the Catfish Convention, but a bunch of the other guys are going (I just can't make it this time). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Mainly the boys from Jersey City, though Chuck settled in Florida after his long vacation--don't know if he is still there, or has moved back up to Jersey. I last saw him in the spring at the NEC. Don't know if he will be hanging around the Catfish Convention today, but he was there last year, along with Ginny and her husband Charlie. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! > > And just why would you be asking this? What are you implying by that > remark <g>? Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North > Jersey Aquarium Society. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with > pH=7.8. > > However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. > > > > Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy > to > > scratch, IMO. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > > To: Fish Group > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the > past > > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I > would like > > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > >   > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to > hear > > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high > mineral > > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab > right now) > > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium > that I > > haven't even purchased yet. > >   > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have > with a few > > fish in it that are doing well.  You might ask how I accomplish > this with > > this type of water we have now?  Simple, I buy and use only > distilled water > > for them.  PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- > something > > gallon tank for the future they could be. > >   > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > > something different back then. They were called Marine > > Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists!  I am not > condemning here > > just trying to learn more.  > >   > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here > after > > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > > certainly have purpose.  Obviously you folks today are much more > > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone > tell me > > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I > working > > with, considering my current problems.  No, we cannot go out and > buy that > > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I > could > > afford it. > > > >   > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which > could > > neutralize this problem.  Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only > options?  > > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 > miles of > > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased > their fish)? > > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already > mentioned on > > this list sometime ago.  I was over on their web-site and found I > tank I'd > > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x > 18 x 13.  > > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from > this list > > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw > for sale > > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > >   > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here.  Where do I start?  Test kit, by > who?  The > > Tank it self?  What's my next move?  Considering it could take > months to > > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to > lift the > > tank out of its shipping box. > >   > > Bill > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31512	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

It is not so much the length of the drive, but the amount of time I have to devote to it. After my visit to the Catfish Convention, I'll be going home by way of my office to get some things done there--we've had construction going on all week in there, and I also had to spend a good deal of time outside the office. Then, next week, I'll likely be spending time there rearranging everything so that we no longer have to walk around or step over piles of stuff--finally. It has taken 8 months for this project to get done, as building management dragged their feet in proceeding with it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! \\Steve//, Had hoped to possibly see you at the NJAS Show next weekend; sorry to see that won't be the case, but I can understand the long drive precluding those plans. Hope to see you at the NEC next March, weather permitting; unless you're planning on going to Joe Ferdenzi's (Greater City A.S.) AFISH Convention -- then I'll see you sooner, but than even a longer haul for you. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > It is a 4 hour drive, up I95, so I will not be there. I had thought about going up for the weekend, but, it does not look like it will happen. I am, however, headed over to the Catfish Convention over in Laurel, MD, bit. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve are you coming to the NJAS auction next weekend? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > Well, on occasion. They ARE a pretty scary group. Except for Ray of > course. I buy fish from them though! > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey > Aquarium Society. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. > However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. > > Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to > scratch, IMO. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine > Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here > just trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31513	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen

LOL, and which room has flooring that needs to be redone with new supporting???   :(  My tank looks so empty now...   Chris in VA --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 12:26 PM Ahhh.. he found the secret entrance. LOL Koi are infamous for knocking things over which is why the trend for Koi ponds, for many years has been away from the water garden look since they tear up any potted plants anyhow. I haven't owned any Koi since my ponds were on the small side... 1,000G or less, which really aren't big enough for even a single Koi since a 1,000G pond wouldn't have enough swimming room.. and barely enough water volume. I'm sure they'll have a professional aquarium servicing company so this might not be an issue but make sure they feed your BIG guys enough and that they have real driftwood in the tanks for them. There will not be any algae in a new tank so they'll need lots of supplements. Even with lots of conditions supporting algae growth, a pleco and especially a BIG pleco would still need lots of other food in their diet. Good job on finding them a good home! So... which wall in your home isn't looking very good and might need replacing... with a GIANT tank? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 5:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen Oh my.... I had checked to make sure no one could get in the "windows" but I hadn't considered dummy knocking it over to swim up from the bottom to get stuck in my safety examination. I'll toss the Melafix in tonight I know I have a bottle in my fishy first aid kit. By the way, the two large 19" pleco's I had are being re-homed tonight into a huge 3/4 wall aquarium at a Japanese restaurant opening up Saturday night. It's 3' thick, 9' high, and 12' wide and absolutely gorgeous... (I think I have aquarium envy) Chris in VA --- On Thu, 10/16/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:30 PM You know, right before you posted, a new member tried to join... he called himself Mr. Koi, but his typing wasn't very good so we didn't allow him into the group. I did catch a glimpse of the comments added to his subscription request and here's a copy/paste of it. "I'm just trying to type with my fins to warn all them crazy fish keepers out there about making sure that any decorations with openings should be checked to make sure the openings are large enough for the largest fish in the tank to swim through... now and in anticipation of them growing. This also means the gaps between the filter system intake tubes, etc.... Signed, Mr. Koi (with the sore back and crazy owner)" I did edit out some of the other things that Mr. Koi called his owner. ;-) He should be fine and you aren't the first or last to have this happen. I had a blue gourami try to swim through an undersized opening in a castle a few years back and I had to push him back out the castle by pushing on his face. Same types of injuries as yours. I used Melafix as a antibacterial preventive measure to help him heal up. I learned my lesson back then. Lenny Vasbinder (and the stupid Blue Gourami.. LOL) Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] NOT the brightest Koi I've ever seen One of my 4" Koi's (now living in a 50 gallon tank) managed to wedge himself into a tower decoration and couldn't manage to swim back out so I had to go in after him (stupid, stupid fish). He is eating/swimming fine but is missing a few scales by his dorsal fin, I added Stress Coat, checked the water levels (which were all normal), anything else I should do??? Chris and the Stupid Koi in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:26:16 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31514	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Yes, probably was just about 2 years ago or so that Mike die. Yes, now that I think back on it, you're right about Mike still being in Florida at the time. Momentarily, as I was writing that previous message, I only thought of him being at many of the monthly meetings (even mor frequently than Chuck, although quite often they'd both come up together) up until he got sick, and had temporary mistaken impression with not thinking further about it that he was living locally -- only as he was usually there. Yeah, we kept missing each other at last year's NEC, but not for lack of trying to connect. I checked with Lee Finley a couple of times on your where abouts but we both only kept crossing paths. I'll be sure to catch up with you next Spring. A bunch of us in Ted Coletti's AHHS (Aquarium Hobby History Society) always get together up there including Ray Lucas, Lee F., Joe F. and even our resident musician (lol) Steve Guyger. I believe you're in that group, and if so you ought to check for any gathering we may have in between events. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I think that Mike was still in Florida when he dies, what, 2 years ago now? > > We missed at the NEC last year, but I had a bunch of other stuff going on as well that weekend, and had to keep going back to my room to do stuff. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! > > That would probably include Kevin -- he's a pussycat! (LOL); > seriously, he's a good guy (not "scary"). I guess you know Mike > Sheridan passed (I believe he moved to around the Jersey City area, > after being in Dearfield Beach, FL). Mike was a good friend to all, > including myself, as we both went way back as ACA charter members. > > Yes, Chuck is still there in Fort Lauderdale (Lauderdale Lakes); I > expect he'll be up here next weekend for our show. Don't know if > he's going the Catfish Convention, but a bunch of the other guys are > going (I just can't make it this time). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Mainly the boys from Jersey City, though Chuck settled in Florida > after his long vacation--don't know if he is still there, or has > moved back up to Jersey. I last saw him in the spring at the NEC. > Don't know if he will be hanging around the Catfish Convention today, > but he was there last year, along with Ginny and her husband Charlie. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:14 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > And just why would you be asking this? What are you implying by > that > > remark <g>? Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North > > Jersey Aquarium Society. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > > > I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with > > pH=7.8. > > > However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. > > > > > > Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too > easy > > to > > > scratch, IMO. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > > > To: Fish Group > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for > the > > past > > > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I > > would like > > > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > >   > > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love > to > > hear > > > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have > high > > mineral > > > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab > > right now) > > > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an > aquarium > > that I > > > haven't even purchased yet. > > >   > > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have > > with a few > > > fish in it that are doing well.  You might ask how I accomplish > > this with > > > this type of water we have now?  Simple, I buy and use only > > distilled water > > > for them.  PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- > > something > > > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > >   > > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching > and > > > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called > them > > > something different back then. They were called Marine > > > Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists!  I am not > > condemning here > > > just trying to learn more.  > > >   > > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions > here > > after > > > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it > must > > > certainly have purpose.  Obviously you folks today are much more > > > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone > > tell me > > > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I > > working > > > with, considering my current problems.  No, we cannot go out and > > buy that > > > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if > I > > could > > > afford it. > > > > > >   > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which > > could > > > neutralize this problem.  Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only > > options?  > > > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 > > miles of > > > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased > > their fish)? > > > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already > > mentioned on > > > this list sometime ago.  I was over on their web-site and found I > > tank I'd > > > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x > > 18 x 13.  > > > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from > > this list > > > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw > > for sale > > > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > >   > > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here.  Where do I start?  Test kit, > by > > who?  The > > > Tank it self?  What's my next move?  Considering it could take > > months to > > > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to > > lift the > > > tank out of its shipping box. > > >   > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31515	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

Lenny, You seem to have that part confused when referring to General Hardness. GH (General Hardness) is not "Alkalinity," and if it is referred to as such in some test kits (as you are intimating) I'd stay far away from such kits; equally so with any articles stating the same. "Alkalinity" refers to Carbonic/Hydrocarbonic (Carbonate) Hardness (buffering capacity), also known as "Temporary Hardness" and "KH", which has the capacity to maintain a given pH at a certain level until other factors interact with these carbonates breaking their bonds, and reducing the pH at which time the KH values will be reduced. General Hardness (Total Hardness) or "GH" can never have the values of their contributing metals (calcium, magnesium, boron, etc.) reduced; they will remain constant. As for the two word terms pertaining to pH and KH being similar, i.e., "Alkaline" (in a pH context) and "Alkalinity" (in a KH/Temporary Hardness -- Buffering Capacity context), they can be and all too often are confused and erroneously used interchangeably. For this reason, "Basic" might be better used as a term relating to an Alkaline pH (a pH above pH 7.0), unless one is more familiar about the possible confusion of these two words and knows what is being referred to in each context. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > KH = Carbonate Hardness (but you might want to pay attention to them > Kilowatt Hours this winter too! LOL) > GH = General Hardness (sometimes called Alkalinity in some test kits and > articles but that's not a good use of the term, IMO - In My Opinion, since > it confuses the newbie reader, since we also use the terms alkaline and > basic when talking about pH) > > Don't I have them on my Dictionary/Acronym page? Yep, I just checked! > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/04/dictionary-acronyms- abbreviations-and. > html > > Here's a simple Water Chemistry page that covers pH, GH and KH in the > simplest way that I've found. > http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/waterchemistry.htm The page references > aquatic turtles but the water chemistry is still the same. > > The Cookie-Cutter set-ups are set-ups that have been proven to work by > experienced cichlid keepers so you aren't having to experiment with mixing > fish, only to find out they aren't compatible. They're called > "Cookie-Cutter" because they are meant to be uniformed/standardized... like > a cookie-cutter does when making cookies. Aren't you planning on baking > Christmas Tree sugar cookies to send to all of us this year? You'll need > that Christmas Tree cookie-cutter or you'll be spending a lot of time hand > cutting all them cookies. LOL > > The Eclipse 12 is only a 12 gallon tank but yes, all of the "innards" are in > the hood. They're expensive in my opinion. You can get a 10G kit for much > less or even a 55G starter kit at Wally-World for less than an Eclipse 12... > or around the same price since I think the Eclipse 12 sells for around > $100.00. That may be an option if you haven't looked at it. The Walmart > 55G Starter Kit includes the tank, filter system (which you might replace in > a year or so to something bigger/better), hood and light (I think) and some > other goodies. If you're on a budget, this is definitely something I would > consider. > > I was at the Walmart.com site looking for their online prices on the 10G and > 55G starter kits but they do not sell them online but I did see the > Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit for around $15.00 > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635399. Here's the > link to the 55G starter kit for reference. It says the manufacturer is > Perfecto which is an OK brand. > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10312736 The website > says prices vary by store but I seem to remember it being less than $100.00 > for the entire kit when I was looking at one a couple of years ago. > > Get you some sand or small pea gravel at one of the local garden/stone > centers.. where you can also get the bigger rocks/stones that you'll need > much cheaper also. Read lots of articles on rock-scaping a cichlid tank so > you don't run into too many problems. I didn't have a link to a fave on > this subject so I peeked at the list of articles > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_setup_list.php on the Cichlid > site and I did see this article on Rocks > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php. They had lots of > other How-To articles on the main "list" page. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:59 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! > > First on the tank, it's a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. > I'm thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank > this wide). I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet. > On the fish? As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55's > or better. Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided > they are not too crowded with others and their parameters are met as to > Hardness, Ph, and temperature. Of course all but a very, very few are > considered good tank mates for a commujnty tank setup. > > Acrylic? At this price most definitely! Scratches? Yes, I agree there too > BUT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and > also it's greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value. > Bill lives in PA. It's getting cold in PA, very cold soon. Now Bill lives > for the cold. Bill's fish do not. I currently have a small 3- gallon hex > with 5 fish all doing well at 78 degree's with no heater and one 15- watt > incandescent bulb. > > Now about those Abbreviations? You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on > ol' bill. I am going nut's boogying back and fourth between Lenny's > abbreviation page. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)? > Thank god its there but I can't get these two: GH and KH (Len, if you come > back and say KH stands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)--------- and at my > age, I'm not sure I had it in the first place! > > Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail. > Working with all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide > I came across one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have. > It's called an Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing. As > close as I can determine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light > & bio-wheel) are all in the hood! Has anyone ever had one of these and if > so, how do they fly? I have seen only pictures with nothing first hand. > Perhaps a trip to Wally World? > > Thanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask > one more favor? Please don't anyone leave or go on vacation for at least > two more months. Try looking at it this way: "If you folks can get me off > the ground with this tank, you can kick back and say you've done it all! > > Thanks Again for everything, > > Bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 10:49:52 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31516	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

I AM a member. I haven’t been to NEC yet, we will see. Are you? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Are you a member? If so, are you going to the NEC next March? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Well, on occasion. They ARE a pretty scary group. Except for Ray of course. I buy fish from them though! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey Aquarium Society. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31517	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Discontinued Tank Stand

I'll bet two of those google hits were my cichlid-forum and craigslist "wanted" posting, LOL! On that same google search, there IS someone making something similar. Have to check the location, but it's not exactly the same. And the google search DID find stores with them in stock.in the state of Washington (3000 miles away). Thanks! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Discontinued Tank Stand I think it's going to be pure luck and timing to find someone selling a used one if Aqueon can't help. Have you checked with them as to where they got them from? Considering so many things are manufactured outside of the USA, there's a chance that whoever was making them for Aqueon (China, Mexico, etc.) might still be making them for some other brand/distributor. Another option. Considering stands/canopies for that size tank probably cost over $500.00, you might check with a local sole proprietor type furniture or cabinet maker to see if they could duplicate the style/finish on your current stand. I have a friend down here that restores and refinishes antique and heirloom furniture for a living and he also builds matching pieces and I bet he'd be able to build a matching stand/canopy for the price range of a new set. He's been a busy bee since Katrina. Keep searching Google for the keywords on a regular basis and you might get a hit to a Craigslist or eBay listing. I just did a search on - aqueon mission maple stand - and got 203 hits. http://www.google. <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en> com/search?hl=en <http://www.google. <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > &q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search You'd have to see if any are applicable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Discontinued Tank Stand Any ideas how to find a specific, discontinued stand? I know that local fish stores only keep a couple of the most common, inexpensive stands in stock. For the last year I have been planning to buy a 75G tank and stand to match my 125G All-Glass, Mission Style, Maple color stand. Now I find out Aqueon has discontinued the Maple color in this style stand. I have posted on fish forum trading posts, craigslist and emailed a bunch of local fish stores. I have email Aqueon. Know anyone who has one or ideas on how to find one? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 8:07:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31518	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours

Right, not a bubble bath, but an irritant! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours I have well water so my water does not contain chlorine, I usually toss Stress Coat in when I am medicating for something fin/scale related. I think of it as doing the same as a relaxing bubble bath for the ill! Chris in VA --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 12:39 PM I keep MelaFix and PimaFix since they both have long shelf lives as long as they are kept tightly capped. I still have some Jungle Brand antibacterial and antiparasite food left over from when I adopted some sick fish a while back but I wouldn't keep it on hand unless I had a LOT of tanks and fish since I will likely lose most of the food in these bottles to expiration issues. If those other meds have a long shelf life (several years), then I guess it's not bad but I don't think they are needed as a general rule unless someone has a fish room and/or are getting their MTS (multiple tank syndrome) fixes (i.e.-adding lots of new tanks). ;-) On a side note, I never really thought of Stress-Coat as a medicine. It's touted more as a dechlor with added Aloe Vera and slime coat enhancers and mostly marketed towards new fish keepers... who may not realize it's not needed. I wouldn't use it as a dechlor product since there is no need for those other things being dumped into a tank on a continual basis and plain table salt is a better stress reliever and slime coat enhancer. The chloride in salt increases gill function and efficiency so the fish can breath easier and get more O2 from each breath and the sodium is a mild irritant so the fish create a thicker slime coat on their own. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:02 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:39:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

Oops. Thanks for catching that Ray. I did some editing of that email as I was typing and see where I did put the alkalinity part behind the GH acronym instead of the KH acronym. I need to start proofreading before hitting the Send button. I think it's mainly the dip strips that refer to General Hardness and then Alkalinity, instead of KH (Carbonate Hardness). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! Lenny, You seem to have that part confused when referring to General Hardness. GH (General Hardness) is not "Alkalinity," and if it is referred to as such in some test kits (as you are intimating) I'd stay far away from such kits; equally so with any articles stating the same. "Alkalinity" refers to Carbonic/Hydrocarbonic (Carbonate) Hardness (buffering capacity), also known as "Temporary Hardness" and "KH", which has the capacity to maintain a given pH at a certain level until other factors interact with these carbonates breaking their bonds, and reducing the pH at which time the KH values will be reduced. General Hardness (Total Hardness) or "GH" can never have the values of their contributing metals (calcium, magnesium, boron, etc.) reduced; they will remain constant. As for the two word terms pertaining to pH and KH being similar, i.e., "Alkaline" (in a pH context) and "Alkalinity" (in a KH/Temporary Hardness -- Buffering Capacity context), they can be and all too often are confused and erroneously used interchangeably. For this reason, "Basic" might be better used as a term relating to an Alkaline pH (a pH above pH 7.0), unless one is more familiar about the possible confusion of these two words and knows what is being referred to in each context. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > KH = Carbonate Hardness (but you might want to pay attention to them > Kilowatt Hours this winter too! LOL) GH = General Hardness (sometimes > called Alkalinity in some test kits and > articles but that's not a good use of the term, IMO - In My Opinion, since > it confuses the newbie reader, since we also use the terms alkaline and > basic when talking about pH) > > Don't I have them on my Dictionary/Acronym page? Yep, I just checked! > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/04/dictionary-acronyms- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/04/dictionary-acronyms-> abbreviations-and. > html > > Here's a simple Water Chemistry page that covers pH, GH and KH in the > simplest way that I've found. > http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/waterchemistry.htm > <http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/waterchemistry.htm> The page references > aquatic turtles but the water chemistry is still the same. > > The Cookie-Cutter set-ups are set-ups that have been proven to work by > experienced cichlid keepers so you aren't having to experiment with mixing > fish, only to find out they aren't compatible. They're called > "Cookie-Cutter" because they are meant to be uniformed/standardized... like > a cookie-cutter does when making cookies. Aren't you planning on baking > Christmas Tree sugar cookies to send to all of us this year? You'll need > that Christmas Tree cookie-cutter or you'll be spending a lot of time hand > cutting all them cookies. LOL > > The Eclipse 12 is only a 12 gallon tank but yes, all of the "innards" are in > the hood. They're expensive in my opinion. You can get a 10G kit for much > less or even a 55G starter kit at Wally-World for less than an Eclipse 12... > or around the same price since I think the Eclipse 12 sells for around > $100.00. That may be an option if you haven't looked at it. The Walmart > 55G Starter Kit includes the tank, filter system (which you might replace in > a year or so to something bigger/better), hood and light (I think) and some > other goodies. If you're on a budget, this is definitely something I would > consider. > > I was at the Walmart.com site looking for their online prices on the 10G and > 55G starter kits but they do not sell them online but I did see the > Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit for around $15.00 > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635399. > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635399.> Here's the > link to the 55G starter kit for reference. It says the manufacturer is > Perfecto which is an OK brand. > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10312736 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10312736> The website > says prices vary by store but I seem to remember it being less than $100.00 > for the entire kit when I was looking at one a couple of years ago. > > Get you some sand or small pea gravel at one of the local garden/stone > centers.. where you can also get the bigger rocks/stones that you'll need > much cheaper also. Read lots of articles on rock-scaping a cichlid tank so > you don't run into too many problems. I didn't have a link to a fave on > this subject so I peeked at the list of articles > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_setup_list.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_setup_list.php> on the Cichlid > site and I did see this article on Rocks > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php. > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php.> They had lots of > other How-To articles on the main "list" page. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:59 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! > > First on the tank, it's a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. > I'm thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank > this wide). I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet. > On the fish? As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55's > or better. Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided > they are not too crowded with others and their parameters are met as to > Hardness, Ph, and temperature. Of course all but a very, very few are > considered good tank mates for a commujnty tank setup. > > Acrylic? At this price most definitely! Scratches? Yes, I agree there too > BUT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and > also it's greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value. > Bill lives in PA. It's getting cold in PA, very cold soon. Now Bill lives > for the cold. Bill's fish do not. I currently have a small 3- gallon hex > with 5 fish all doing well at 78 degree's with no heater and one 15- watt > incandescent bulb. > > Now about those Abbreviations? You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on > ol' bill. I am going nut's boogying back and fourth between Lenny's > abbreviation page. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)? > Thank god its there but I can't get these two: GH and KH (Len, if you come > back and say KH stands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)--------- and at my > age, I'm not sure I had it in the first place! > > Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail. > Working with all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide > I came across one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have. > It's called an Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing. As > close as I can determine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light > & bio-wheel) are all in the hood! Has anyone ever had one of these and if > so, how do they fly? I have seen only pictures with nothing first hand. > Perhaps a trip to Wally World? > > Thanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask > one more favor? Please don't anyone leave or go on vacation for at least > two more months. Try looking at it this way: "If you folks can get me off > the ground with this tank, you can kick back and say you've done it all! > > Thanks Again for everything, > > Bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 > 10:49:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 10:55:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 11:14:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31520	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Discontinued Tank Stand

Sounds like you might be putting FEDEX Ground or UPS to work soon! Or a vacation to Washington. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Discontinued Tank Stand I'll bet two of those google hits were my cichlid-forum and craigslist "wanted" posting, LOL! On that same google search, there IS someone making something similar. Have to check the location, but it's not exactly the same. And the google search DID find stores with them in stock.in the state of Washington (3000 miles away). Thanks! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Discontinued Tank Stand I think it's going to be pure luck and timing to find someone selling a used one if Aqueon can't help. Have you checked with them as to where they got them from? Considering so many things are manufactured outside of the USA, there's a chance that whoever was making them for Aqueon (China, Mexico, etc.) might still be making them for some other brand/distributor. Another option. Considering stands/canopies for that size tank probably cost over $500.00, you might check with a local sole proprietor type furniture or cabinet maker to see if they could duplicate the style/finish on your current stand. I have a friend down here that restores and refinishes antique and heirloom furniture for a living and he also builds matching pieces and I bet he'd be able to build a matching stand/canopy for the price range of a new set. He's been a busy bee since Katrina. Keep searching Google for the keywords on a regular basis and you might get a hit to a Craigslist or eBay listing. I just did a search on - aqueon mission maple stand - and got 203 hits. http://www.google. <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en> > > com/search?hl=en <http://www.google. <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > &q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > > com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > &q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search You'd have to see if any are applicable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Discontinued Tank Stand Any ideas how to find a specific, discontinued stand? I know that local fish stores only keep a couple of the most common, inexpensive stands in stock. For the last year I have been planning to buy a 75G tank and stand to match my 125G All-Glass, Mission Style, Maple color stand. Now I find out Aqueon has discontinued the Maple color in this style stand. I have posted on fish forum trading posts, craigslist and emailed a bunch of local fish stores. I have email Aqueon. Know anyone who has one or ideas on how to find one? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 8:07:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 11:05:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 11:19:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31521	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Discontinued Tank Stand

No I can barely afford the stand (and tank, hood, fish, equipment, etc.). I don’t think I can afford the shipping. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Discontinued Tank Stand Sounds like you might be putting FEDEX Ground or UPS to work soon! Or a vacation to Washington. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Discontinued Tank Stand I'll bet two of those google hits were my cichlid-forum and craigslist "wanted" posting, LOL! On that same google search, there IS someone making something similar. Have to check the location, but it's not exactly the same. And the google search DID find stores with them in stock.in the state of Washington (3000 miles away). Thanks! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Discontinued Tank Stand I think it's going to be pure luck and timing to find someone selling a used one if Aqueon can't help. Have you checked with them as to where they got them from? Considering so many things are manufactured outside of the USA, there's a chance that whoever was making them for Aqueon (China, Mexico, etc.) might still be making them for some other brand/distributor. Another option. Considering stands/canopies for that size tank probably cost over $500.00, you might check with a local sole proprietor type furniture or cabinet maker to see if they could duplicate the style/finish on your current stand. I have a friend down here that restores and refinishes antique and heirloom furniture for a living and he also builds matching pieces and I bet he'd be able to build a matching stand/canopy for the price range of a new set. He's been a busy bee since Katrina. Keep searching Google for the keywords on a regular basis and you might get a hit to a Craigslist or eBay listing. I just did a search on - aqueon mission maple stand - and got 203 hits. http://www.google. <http://www.google. <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en> com/search?hl=en <http://www.google. <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en> com/search?hl=en <http://www.google. <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en> com/search?hl=en> > > com/search?hl=en <http://www.google. <http://www.google. <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en> com/search?hl=en <http://www.google. <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search <http://www.google. <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > &q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > > com/search?hl=en&q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search > &q=aqueon+mission+maple+stand&btnG=Search You'd have to see if any are applicable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Discontinued Tank Stand Any ideas how to find a specific, discontinued stand? I know that local fish stores only keep a couple of the most common, inexpensive stands in stock. For the last year I have been planning to buy a 75G tank and stand to match my 125G All-Glass, Mission Style, Maple color stand. Now I find out Aqueon has discontinued the Maple color in this style stand. I have posted on fish forum trading posts, craigslist and emailed a bunch of local fish stores. I have email Aqueon. Know anyone who has one or ideas on how to find one? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 8:07:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 11:05:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 11:19:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31522	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

Bill, When considering the Eclipse 12, I'm guessing you're considering this as a 3rd tank and not an alternative to the 40 gallon you're planning on. I'm saying this only as this Eclipse 12 holds only the capacity of its namesake -- 12 gallons (21"L x 11 1/2" W x 17 1/2" H), a bit of a decrease from the 40. While I realize that weight is part of your consideration in an acrylic tank, even with their propensity for scratching (my main objection to them), but aside from shipping expenses you could actually save $35 by buying an all glass tank if you could pick it up at their drop-off point. Glass Cages will be delivering tanks in Allentown, PA on November 9th. Their 40 gallon glass tank is priced at $81.00, so that's a good savings if you're within reach of that area. A 40 gallon glass tank is still easily manageable in weight for one "old" person to handle. They have 50 gallon (36" x 18" x 17") glass tanks for $92, but you might say that's too heavy for you. Agreed, the acrylic tank's material is a better insulator, but you'll still need a heater in it at any rate, even if it might remain near 78 o most of the time; you never know when the temps may dip. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > First on the tank, it's a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. > I'm thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank this wide).  I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet.  On the fish?  As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55's or better.  Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they are not too crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, and temperature.  Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank mates for a commujnty tank setup. >                      > Acrylic?  At this price most definitely!  Scratches?  Yes, I agree there too BUT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also it's greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value.  Bill lives in PA.  It's getting cold in PA, very cold soon.  Now Bill lives for the cold.  Bill's fish do not.  I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish all doing well at 78 degree's with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. >   > Now about those Abbreviations?  You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on ol' bill.  I am going nut's boogying back and fourth between Lenny's abbreviation page. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)?  Thank god its there but I can't get these two:  GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH stands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)---------and at my age, I'm not sure I had it in the first place! >   > Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail.  Working with all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came across one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have.  It's called an Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing.  As close as I can determine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are all in the hood!  Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly?  I have seen only pictures with nothing first hand.  Perhaps a trip to Wally World? >   > Thanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one more favor?    Please don't anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two more months.  Try looking at it this way:  "If you folks can get me off the ground with this tank, you can kick back and say you've done it all! >   > Thanks Again for everything, >   > Bill > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31523	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

All the fish in my tank came from "That Fish Place" in an overnight shipment from Pa. to Nevada. There were 14 Africans. That was 5 years ago and every one of them is still alive and doing well.   I would highly recommend them, In fact I still buy supplies from them occasionally.   John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@...> wrote: From: Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 AM My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!  They are located in Lancaster, PA.  I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices!  :D   Chris in VA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31524	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Yes, a 40 Gallon Long, by any other manufacturer's standards is 48" long. For some odd reason, Glass Cages refers to their 36" x 18" x 13" tank as a 40G long, as I also note Bill does. To most hobbyists, this is a 40G Breeder tank. If by "combinations," you mean a combination of more than one East African Cichlid, then yes the 48" tank would be the better choice by far, and then its best to have two very distantly related species (such as a substrate spawner and a mouthbrooder) to prevent cross-breeding; I don't really subscribe to mixing two mouthbrooder species. I believe you have a 29G with Yellow Labs and another mouthbrooding species, if I'm not mistaken (and might be at this point in time, as its been a while since reading your set up) and as far as I know, you have no such problems, but the strong possibility of hybridization is always there -- even between relatively far-apart species' relationships such as between an Mbuna and a Utaka (Peacock, etc.). Rift Lake and Victorian Cichlids are best kept in dedicated species tanks and are usually set up in this manner, and excepting for some milder mannered species, are best set up using a minimum size tank length of 36" which will give adequate territorial needs for most Malawi species of average size and many Tanganyika species of mouthbrooding breeding behavior. Due to even more aggressive natures of some of the Tanganyika mouthbrooding species, size for size, these Tanganyika mouthbrooders in question will do best in a minimum 48" long tank. You're so right when you say the footprint of the tank is most important, with the length being the first requisite, the width being secondary although still to be considered. With an example of a 60 gallon tank you mentioned somwhere (if one were made) even one at 36 " Long x 24" Wide and 16" High would not be much more adequate than a 40G Breeder (36"L x 18"W x 13"H) tank for the same group of African Cichlids only because of their behavior to keep in mind. Adequate rock work is the mainstay of this environment, which keeps everybody happy. Two pairs of Tanganyika substrate spawners would be on par with what you could house in a 40G Breeder tank, each pair taking up one end of the tank. Lake Victoria Cichlids are to be treated the same as Lake Malawi species although averaging smaller, a slightly larger group may be used, perhaps including an additional male. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > That's a 40G long which is 48" long. And there ARE some combinations that > will work in a 36" tank, but they are more limited and more risky. > > > > Footprint is everything with Africans because they all want a piece of the > bottom.gallons not so important. In the wild the fish claim territories of > a square meter. > > > > From Malawi you could do a single species tank of dwarf mbuna or a small, > peaceful peacock like Aulonocara Basenchi. From Lake Tanganyika you could > do two pairs as suggested. For example I have a pair of Altolamprologus > Calvus and a pair of Lamprologus Caudopunctatus in a 36" tank. I have no > experience with the Victorians. > > > > If you decide to go cichlids of any kind, I highly recommend cichlid-forum. > The articles and cookie cutters are VERY helpful, but it's best to also post > your plans and ask for feedback because some of the articles are dated. > They were contributed by readers, so they are not "updated" or "replaced" as > new information becomes available. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > Donna, > > I'm no expert on African Cichlids so I'll leave it to the experts and > according to this article from a respected site, there are quite a few > different African Cichlid combinations that could be housed in a 40G long > tank... with fish from either Lakes Tanganyika, Victoria and Malawi and even > a Victoria/Malawi combo. > http://www.cichlid- > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php> > forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php > > These Cookie-Cutter set-ups for many tank sizes > http://www.cichlid- > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> > forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php are tried and > true set-ups. > > It's true that you have to be more careful when cleaning an acrylic tank and > maybe with the rocks and sand from an African Cichlid tank, they would have > a higher chance of getting scratched up so if Bill does have to go with the > African Cichlids, a glass tank may be a better choice. The pro side of > acrylic is the scratches can be buffed out with a $25.00 polishing kit > available at places like DrsFosterSmith.com and others. With glass, you > would have to have a pro do it with special equipment for polishing glass... > obviously at a higher cost... but since it's much harder to scratch glass, I > would probably lean towards glass with the rocks and sand substrate. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. > However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. > > Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to > scratch, IMO. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine > Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here > just trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 9:14:29 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31525	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

I know that you know the difference, Lenny -- no questioning that. But I thought I'd best clarify it and through that correction out there as soon as I could for the benefit of the members. There's enough confusion between "Alkaline" and "Alkalinity" without having "Alkalinity" appear as if it has anything to do with GH/General Hardness. Oops, I see I also made an error, and must correct myself. In my previous post in this thread, I notice I used the term "Total Hardness" in concert with General Hardness. Please note, Total Hardness is not just General Hardness alone, but is the combination of General Hardness (GH) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). No, really -- I'm not trying to make this more complicated (LOL) than it really is. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oops. Thanks for catching that Ray. I did some editing of that email as I > was typing and see where I did put the alkalinity part behind the GH acronym > instead of the KH acronym. I need to start proofreading before hitting the > Send button. I think it's mainly the dip strips that refer to General > Hardness and then Alkalinity, instead of KH (Carbonate Hardness). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! > > Lenny, You seem to have that part confused when referring to General > Hardness. GH (General Hardness) is not "Alkalinity," and if it is referred > to as such in some test kits (as you are intimating) I'd stay far away from > such kits; equally so with any articles stating the same. > > "Alkalinity" refers to Carbonic/Hydrocarbonic (Carbonate) Hardness > (buffering capacity), also known as "Temporary Hardness" and "KH", which has > the capacity to maintain a given pH at a certain level until other factors > interact with these carbonates breaking their bonds, and reducing the pH at > which time the KH values will be reduced. > > General Hardness (Total Hardness) or "GH" can never have the values of their > contributing metals (calcium, magnesium, boron, etc.) reduced; they will > remain constant. > > As for the two word terms pertaining to pH and KH being similar, i.e., > "Alkaline" (in a pH context) and "Alkalinity" (in a KH/Temporary Hardness -- > Buffering Capacity context), they can be and all too often are confused and > erroneously used interchangeably. For this reason, "Basic" might be better > used as a term relating to an Alkaline pH (a pH above pH 7.0), unless one is > more familiar about the possible confusion of these two words and knows what > is being referred to in each context. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > KH = Carbonate Hardness (but you might want to pay attention to them > > Kilowatt Hours this winter too! LOL) GH = General Hardness (sometimes > > called Alkalinity in some test > kits and > > articles but that's not a good use of the term, IMO - In My > Opinion, since > > it confuses the newbie reader, since we also use the terms alkaline > and > > basic when talking about pH) > > > > Don't I have them on my Dictionary/Acronym page? Yep, I just > checked! > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/04/dictionary-acronyms- > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/04/dictionary-acronyms-> > abbreviations-and. > > html > > > > Here's a simple Water Chemistry page that covers pH, GH and KH in > the > > simplest way that I've found. > > http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/waterchemistry.htm > > <http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/waterchemistry.htm> The page > references > > aquatic turtles but the water chemistry is still the same. > > > > The Cookie-Cutter set-ups are set-ups that have been proven to work > by > > experienced cichlid keepers so you aren't having to experiment with > mixing > > fish, only to find out they aren't compatible. They're called > > "Cookie-Cutter" because they are meant to be > uniformed/standardized... like > > a cookie-cutter does when making cookies. Aren't you planning on > baking > > Christmas Tree sugar cookies to send to all of us this year? > You'll need > > that Christmas Tree cookie-cutter or you'll be spending a lot of > time hand > > cutting all them cookies. LOL > > > > The Eclipse 12 is only a 12 gallon tank but yes, all of > the "innards" are in > > the hood. They're expensive in my opinion. You can get a 10G kit > for much > > less or even a 55G starter kit at Wally-World for less than an > Eclipse 12... > > or around the same price since I think the Eclipse 12 sells for > around > > $100.00. That may be an option if you haven't looked at it. The > Walmart > > 55G Starter Kit includes the tank, filter system (which you might > replace in > > a year or so to something bigger/better), hood and light (I think) > and some > > other goodies. If you're on a budget, this is definitely something > I would > > consider. > > > > I was at the Walmart.com site looking for their online prices on > the 10G and > > 55G starter kits but they do not sell them online but I did see the > > Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit for around $15.00 > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635399. > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635399.> > Here's the > > link to the 55G starter kit for reference. It says the > manufacturer is > > Perfecto which is an OK brand. > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10312736 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10312736> The > website > > says prices vary by store but I seem to remember it being less than > $100.00 > > for the entire kit when I was looking at one a couple of years ago. > > > > Get you some sand or small pea gravel at one of the local > garden/stone > > centers.. where you can also get the bigger rocks/stones that > you'll need > > much cheaper also. Read lots of articles on rock-scaping a cichlid > tank so > > you don't run into too many problems. I didn't have a link to a > fave on > > this subject so I peeked at the list of articles > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_setup_list.php > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_setup_list.php> on > the Cichlid > > site and I did see this article on Rocks > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php. > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php.> They had > lots of > > other How-To articles on the main "list" page. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! > > > > First on the tank, it's a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at > $116. > > I'm thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture > for a tank > > this wide). I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal > as yet. > > On the fish? As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like > those 55's > > or better. Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller > provided > > they are not too crowded with others and their parameters are met > as to > > Hardness, Ph, and temperature. Of course all but a very, very few > are > > considered good tank mates for a commujnty tank setup. > > > > Acrylic? At this price most definitely! Scratches? Yes, I agree > there too > > BUT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid > anymore) and > > also it's greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding > insulation value. > > Bill lives in PA. It's getting cold in PA, very cold soon. Now > Bill lives > > for the cold. Bill's fish do not. I currently have a small 3- > gallon hex > > with 5 fish all doing well at 78 degree's with no heater and one 15- > watt > > incandescent bulb. > > > > Now about those Abbreviations? You folks have got to have a bit of > mercy on > > ol' bill. I am going nut's boogying back and fourth between Lenny's > > abbreviation page. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" > means)? > > Thank god its there but I can't get these two: GH and KH (Len, if > you come > > back and say KH stands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)--------- > and at my > > age, I'm not sure I had it in the first place! > > > > Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must > prevail. > > Working with all the sites that you good people were kind enough to > provide > > I came across one other type tank very similar to this setup I now > have. > > It's called an Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one > thing. As > > close as I can determine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter > & light > > & bio-wheel) are all in the hood! Has anyone ever had one of these > and if > > so, how do they fly? I have seen only pictures with nothing first > hand. > > Perhaps a trip to Wally World? > > > > Thanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. > May I ask > > one more favor? Please don't anyone leave or go on vacation for > at least > > two more months. Try looking at it this way: "If you folks can > get me off > > the ground with this tank, you can kick back and say you've done it > all! > > > > Thanks Again for everything, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 > > 10:49:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/18/2008 10:55:33 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/18/2008 11:14:41 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31526	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: panting Molly

I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31527	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

No, I am not a member of the North jersey group, nor the South Jersey group. I do have memberships in the Worcester Aquarium Society and the Potomac Valley Aquarium Society. I am also a Life Member of the ACA, though it has been a while since I kept any cichlids. I have also belonged to a number of other groups in years past. If you can get your hands on it, I played a part in putting together the first IBC publication dealing with wild bettas. Yup, this kid, like Ray and Hank have seen a lot of water changes go down the drain <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I AM a member. I haven't been to NEC yet, we will see. Are you? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Are you a member? If so, are you going to the NEC next March? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Well, on occasion. They ARE a pretty scary group. Except for Ray of course. I buy fish from them though! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey Aquarium Society. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31528	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

I’m going with a bunch of NYCichlids guys to Atlantis on November 1 to buy about 40 Tangs for my 125G. (Providing I can get a stand for the new 75G so the Malawi can vacate the 125G.) So I probably won’t be buying more fish for a while after that and may not be motivated to go in March, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 3:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! No, I am not a member of the North jersey group, nor the South Jersey group. I do have memberships in the Worcester Aquarium Society and the Potomac Valley Aquarium Society. I am also a Life Member of the ACA, though it has been a while since I kept any cichlids. I have also belonged to a number of other groups in years past. If you can get your hands on it, I played a part in putting together the first IBC publication dealing with wild bettas. Yup, this kid, like Ray and Hank have seen a lot of water changes go down the drain <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I AM a member. I haven't been to NEC yet, we will see. Are you? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Are you a member? If so, are you going to the NEC next March? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Well, on occasion. They ARE a pretty scary group. Except for Ray of course. I buy fish from them though! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Don't tell me you are hanging around with those boys from North Jersey Aquarium Society. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! I have well water (NJ) and it's perfect for African cichlids with pH=7.8. However, African cichlids are too big for your tank. Also I would not do acrylic. I have glass and even THAT's too easy to scratch, IMO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists----------------NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31529	From: Chris	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Wishing you and your sushi a great Sweetist Day!

I hope you are having a great day on this Sweetest Day! :) Don't forget to buy your fish a bouquet of brine shrimp!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31530	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

The store is located in Lancaster, PA from route 30 WEST.  Haven't been yet and the CEO said we can go BUT.................................no walking into the store with any plastic!  She's learned a couple of things since my first time in the hobby!   thanks,   bill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@...> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31531	From: pam andress	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Catfish Convention

Steve, Have fun at the convention and try not to spend too much money. ;) I know a few people that are there and man I wish I was there too. Pam It is a 4 hour drive, up I95, so I will not be there. I had thought about going up for the weekend, but, it does not look like it will happen. I am, however, headed over to the Catfish Convention over in Laurel, MD, bit.\\Steve// . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31532	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Hi John,   Not sure if this is a good answer with the cold weather coming on but for my own reference would you mind telling me the cost?  No necessary for the fish but the cost of the overnight shipment,  You seemed very pleased and good hering from you.   Bill in PA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:08 PM All the fish in my tank came from "That Fish Place" in an overnight shipment from Pa. to Nevada. There were 14 Africans. That was 5 years ago and every one of them is still alive and doing well.   I would highly recommend them, In fact I still buy supplies from them occasionally.   John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 AM My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!  They are located in Lancaster, PA.  I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices!  :D   Chris in VA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31533	From: vivian bradish	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Rescued Fish All Lived, Can I mix these with other fish

A few weeks ago I posted that I rescued a tank with 6 Tiger Barbs. The tank cleared up and they all lived. I really do not want this second tank. I would like to add the barbs to my original tank. I heard they can be nippers but in larger groups they will not be as aggressive. I have a pleco, 2 platys, 2 mollies and 3 coreys in my tank which is a 40 gallon. Would it be ok to add the barbs? Thanks, Viv

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31534	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Trying To Explain?

Hi Everyone, � First of all I should have told you more about Bill than I did at first and certainly more about the now infamous 40-gallon tank.� This tank came as a result of a match up that Len and I talked over about a possible (that I still haven�t heard anything on, posted tank on the Internet).� The measurements given from it came very close to the tank mentioned at Glass Cages.� Acrylic or glass, I�m wondering what�s cheaper?� Someone, maybe Steve, just posted something about a shipment to Allentown, PA from Glass Cages? � OK, so what�s the big deal with this tank Bill?� Simple (as ol� bill really is) this tank will fit exactly where I want it to go and is the largest size at these dimensions I can have, it would go on my bedroom dresser, at least for now.� Donna, Steve and others trying to help, please believe me, I love 55�s and at the regular or standard measurements they come in, I once had six of them.� But truth be told, we live in a very small Cape Cod home in the country (the darn well-water).� The� last time we purchase carpeting I believe we came in around 1,000 square feet.� I don�t have 4 feet of usable wall space anywhere.� If I did, I�d probably start with even a 75 because I learned long ago that you can really create some great underwater scenes with that extra width.� Years ago at first, that�s how I wound up with so many 100-gallon tanks, I couldn�t get room for my dream tank; a 180 gallon at 72 x 24 x24--------------------I still have dreams about that one! � Now about the Test Kits, I got so many responses I got lost so I�ll try again.� Is there one the will do the most important test?� And was this the �tetra� that was mentioned from Wally-World?� Sorry, but I am now going to start a �cut and paste�� from your mails into a regular tropical fish notebook!� The information you folks are giving me is just to valuable and I don�t want to risk your �wrath� by my asking you the same dumb questions twice. � A parting question?� I have kept fish of all types and sizes but none have ever trouble or bothered Corydoras type cat fish, their armor plating and spines I suppose, even my Oscars would not bother them and�they got along quite well.� The oscars would eat like pigs and the cat's would cleanup after them!� My all-time favorites were the Colossoma brachypomum or Red-bellyed Pacu (at that time the local fish store thought that these nice little guys were red-bellied Piranha).� These guy�s got really big at over a foot and at 10 pounds each, I had 3.� Lines in the sand were drawn by the CEO after they outgrew their 100 gallon tank and I wanted to de-chlorinate the family pool and turn it over to them!� Would�the African�s get along ok with Corydoras or not? � Thanks Again To All Of You For All Of Your Help, � Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31535	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

Ray please pardon a mail I just sent as I thought this message was the one Steve sent about Allentown.� Been gone since this morning playing catch-up with the mail, please forgive my misquote. � But as you will read I like the 40 for the reasons I gave, the 50 you mentioned would be nice to but at its location, ol� bill would be standing on a stepladder doing water changes with its additional height! � On the Eclipse 12?� It was only an after-thought.� I�m trying to get something up and flying before the snow does!� You did not comment on my thoughts about a double barrel light for the 40?� Would they be necessary for a tank this wide but not so high or would a single tube do.� I�ll be asking about type and intensity later. � Thanks for the response, � Bill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 12:36 PM Bill, When considering the Eclipse 12, I'm guessing you're considering this as a 3rd tank and not an alternative to the 40 gallon you're planning on. I'm saying this only as this Eclipse 12 holds only the capacity of its namesake -- 12 gallons (21"L x 11 1/2" W x 17 1/2" H), a bit of a decrease from the 40. While I realize that weight is part of your consideration in an acrylic tank, even with their propensity for scratching (my main objection to them), but aside from shipping expenses you could actually save $35 by buying an all glass tank if you could pick it up at their drop-off point. Glass Cages will be delivering tanks in Allentown, PA on November 9th. Their 40 gallon glass tank is priced at $81.00, so that's a good savings if you're within reach of that area. A 40 gallon glass tank is still easily manageable in weight for one "old" person to handle. They have 50 gallon (36" x 18" x 17") glass tanks for $92, but you might say that's too heavy for you. Agreed, the acrylic tank's material is a better insulator, but you'll still need a heater in it at any rate, even if it might remain near 78 o most of the time; you never know when the temps may dip. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > First on the tank, it's a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. > I'm thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank this wide).� I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet.� On the fish?� As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55's or better.� Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they are not too crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, and temperature.� Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank mates for a commujnty tank setup. > �������������������� > Acrylic?� At this price most definitely!� Scratches?� Yes, I agree there too BUT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also it's greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value.� Bill lives in PA.� It's getting cold in PA, very cold soon.� Now Bill lives for the cold.� Bill's fish do not.� I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish all doing well at 78 degree's with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. > � > Now about those Abbreviations?� You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on ol' bill.� I am going nut's boogying back and fourth between Lenny's abbreviation page.�( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)?� Thank god its there but I can't get these two:� GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH stands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)-------- -and at my age, I'm not sure I had it in the first place! > � > Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail.� Working with all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came across one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have.� It's called an Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing.� As close as I can determine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are all in the hood!� Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly?� I have seen only pictures with nothing first hand.� Perhaps a trip to Wally World? > � > Thanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one more favor?��� Please don't anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two more months.� Try looking at it this way:� "If you folks can get me off the ground with this tank, you can kick back and say you've done it all! > � > Thanks Again for everything, > � > Bill > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail. yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31536	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Trying To Explain?

Yes Bill. For budget purposes, the Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit, from Walmart, for around $15.00 will do the majority of the needed tests. Presuming it hasn't changed in the past year or so, my kit shows that it does the pH low and pH high, KH, GH, NO2- (nitrite), CO2 (conversion chart), NH3/NH4+ (ammonia). I'm looking at mine right now and the only test it doesn't do is the nitrate test so you would need to supplement it with a Nitrate test kit. API makes a separate Nitrate Test Kit for around $5.00 that you could probably piggy-back on to one of your online fish/supply orders so shipping costs wouldn't be a factor. The API Master Test Kit, in the same price range, has the Nitrate test and also the ammonia, nitrite, pH high and pH low. I think this is why I recommended getting both kits since the extra $10.00 spent on the API Master Test Kit, over just the Nitrate Test Kit, also gets you 3-4 other test kits. You can get by with just the Tetra-Laborette (and now that I'm looking at the box closely again, it's actually called TetraTest-Laborette (with the "Test" being in lighter colored letters for some reason which is why I was referring to it as only Tetra-Laborette). You don't really need a nitrate test kit until after you have cycled the tank anyhow.. or at least not until you are actually starting to test to make sure the tank is cycling properly. I don't recall nitrate issues being very common in well water and your lab tests you are waiting on will likely let you know if nitrate is an issue up front with your well water. It's more of an issue in public utility water due to the added chloramine where the ammonia in the chloramine (if it breaks down in the pipes) can start up the nitrification cycle in the pipes and the EPA allows up to 10ppm of Nitrate in public utility water and some areas served by reservoirs or other natural water sources with a lot of farm run-off might even have higher than 10ppm during certain times. OK. Scratch the 55G Starter Kit from Wally World even though it's a heck of a bargain for any other readers just starting out or suffering from MTS (Multi Tank Syndrome). I understand the space constraints as I've had to downsize my total number of tanks for the same reason following Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 4:28 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Trying To Explain? Hi Everyone, First of all I should have told you more about Bill than I did at first and certainly more about the now infamous 40-gallon tank. This tank came as a result of a match up that Len and I talked over about a possible (that I still haven’t heard anything on, posted tank on the Internet). The measurements given from it came very close to the tank mentioned at Glass Cages. Acrylic or glass, I’m wondering what’s cheaper? Someone, maybe Steve, just posted something about a shipment to Allentown, PA from Glass Cages? OK, so what’s the big deal with this tank Bill? Simple (as ol’ bill really is) this tank will fit exactly where I want it to go and is the largest size at these dimensions I can have, it would go on my bedroom dresser, at least for now. Donna, Steve and others trying to help, please believe me, I love 55’s and at the regular or standard measurements they come in, I once had six of them. But truth be told, we live in a very small Cape Cod home in the country (the darn well-water). The last time we purchase carpeting I believe we came in around 1,000 square feet. I don’t have 4 feet of usable wall space anywhere. If I did, I’d probably start with even a 75 because I learned long ago that you can really create some great underwater scenes with that extra width. Years ago at first, that’s how I wound up with so many 100-gallon tanks, I couldn’t get room for my dream tank; a 180 gallon at 72 x 24 x24--------------------I still have dreams about that one! Now about the Test Kits, I got so many responses I got lost so I’ll try again. Is there one the will do the most important test? And was this the “tetra” that was mentioned from Wally-World? Sorry, but I am now going to start a “cut and paste” from your mails into a regular tropical fish notebook! The information you folks are giving me is just to valuable and I don’t want to risk your “wrath” by my asking you the same dumb questions twice. A parting question? I have kept fish of all types and sizes but none have ever trouble or bothered Corydoras type cat fish, their armor plating and spines I suppose, even my Oscars would not bother them and they got along quite well. The oscars would eat like pigs and the cat's would cleanup after them! My all-time favorites were the Colossoma brachypomum or Red-bellyed Pacu (at that time the local fish store thought that these nice little guys were red-bellied Piranha). These guy’s got really big at over a foot and at 10 pounds each, I had 3. Lines in the sand were drawn by the CEO after they outgrew their 100 gallon tank and I wanted to de-chlorinate the family pool and turn it over to them! Would the African’s get along ok with Corydoras or not? Thanks Again To All Of You For All Of Your Help, Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 4:40:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 5:18:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31537	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Catfish Convention

Been there, haven't looked at my credit card receipt, been to my office, worked, back home again. Saw the people I wanted to see, and a few I did not expect. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 3:48 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Catfish Convention Steve, Have fun at the convention and try not to spend too much money. ;) I know a few people that are there and man I wish I was there too. Pam It is a 4 hour drive, up I95, so I will not be there. I had thought about going up for the weekend, but, it does not look like it will happen. I am, however, headed over to the Catfish Convention over in Laurel, MD, bit.\\Steve// .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31538	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Hi Bill   I bought 14 Fish and could not believe how well they were packed. Let me explain:   All fish were individually bagged (Triple Bagged )    Between each fish there was a bag of air, to keep the fish very moving around too much,   All was packed in a Styrofoam Container.   Also I did not order from what they listed. I told them what I wanted and they called me when they had them.   I tried to get what I wanted within 100 miles of where I live and I couldn't get what I wanted and what they had would have cost a lot more. I think the fish were about 5.00 each and the shipment was 35.00.   If you are buying enough fish it is well worth it. And the beauty of it was that they were all added at the same time which is very good when you have Africans. That way they don't get the opportunity to set up territories before hand.   If you need more inf just ask. By the way don't forget that they traveled about 2500 miles from Pa to Nevada/   John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:24 PM Hi John,   Not sure if this is a good answer with the cold weather coming on but for my own reference would you mind telling me the cost?  No necessary for the fish but the cost of the overnight shipment,  You seemed very pleased and good hering from you.   Bill in PA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal. net> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal. net> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:08 PM All the fish in my tank came from "That Fish Place" in an overnight shipment from Pa. to Nevada. There were 14 Africans. That was 5 years ago and every one of them is still alive and doing well.   I would highly recommend them, In fact I still buy supplies from them occasionally.   John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 AM My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!  They are located in Lancaster, PA.  I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices!  :D   Chris in VA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31539	From: ajb21130	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Ill have to agree that it is prob my most favorite as well. I will never forget the first time i walked in there i was in heaven, Like a kid in a candy store i wanted everything!!! lol I had never saw such a selection of aquariums and accessories in my life. There selection of fish isnt bad either. Any one who lives close or a few hours away should def check that fish place out!! And yes watch out for the buggies lol --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@...> wrote: > > My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!  They are located in Lancaster, PA.  I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices!  :D >   > Chris in VA > > --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@...> wrote: > > From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM > > > > > > > Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not > quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite > remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called > thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is > thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a > friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i > do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember > look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm > and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is > having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything > online. Hope this may be of some help, > Amber > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you > also > > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master > test > > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody > NEEDS a > > decent Master Test Kit". > > > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and > $60.00 > > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > and pH. > > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, > including > > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply > do not > > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of > them. They > > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing > wrong with a > > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be > concerned > > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that > may be > > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the > kits above. > > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you > would get > > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years > worth of > > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you > could go > > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around > $105.00. > > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than > the > > basic Master Test Kit. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by > Kordon. > > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could > not find > > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close > to want > > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to > worry, > > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample > we gave > > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I > say maybe > > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and > establish a base > > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I > would be > > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with > Super > > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. > Maybe > > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that > time we > > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then > that did not > > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the > chlorine; come > > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of > my > > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 > gallon). > > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light > (Perfecto > > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a > double or twin > > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't > that > > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types > later as > > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be > going with > > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > > > When you have a chance, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least > those > > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of > newcomers to > > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but > even if > > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having > problems > > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by > Kordon. > > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but > your ole > > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral > content, RO > > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your > own > > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than > distilled > > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to > reconstitute > > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but > have no > > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some > that will > > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of > weeks, I > > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to > you. > > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. > I'd like > > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, > though you > > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water > rather than > > having to do anything radical to it. > > > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, > unless you > > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you > need. You > > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes > fish. One > > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. > Another > > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com] > > On Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > > To: Fish Group > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the > past > > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I > would like > > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to > hear > > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high > mineral > > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab > right now) > > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium > that I > > haven't even purchased yet. > > > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have > with a few > > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish > this with > > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only > distilled water > > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- > something > > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists-- - > > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here > just > > trying to learn more. > > > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here > after > > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone > tell me > > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I > working > > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and > buy that > > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I > could > > afford it. > > > > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which > could > > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only > options? > > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 > miles of > > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased > their fish)? > > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already > mentioned on > > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I > tank I'd > > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x > 18 x 13. > > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from > this list > > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw > for sale > > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by > who? The > > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take > months to > > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to > lift the > > tank out of its shipping box. > > > > bill > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31540	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

What's a diatom filter? A very fine filter, or a filter supposed to remove silicates and phosphates? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! http://www.fish.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=790088+002 is one place you can get the AquaTru master Test Kit. It is unfortunate that they are so hard to find. They are probably, overall, the best kits on the market. The formulas for NovAqua and Amquel have changed (patent ran out). The inventor is now distributing his wares through HikariUSA with new names. The diatom filter will not remove anything of interest from your water, other than any turbidity it may have. The activated carbon will not help with your pH nor hardness. You have indicated that there may be something else in your water that is not particularly kosher, but have not mentioned what it might be. The activated carbon may remove this, but not knowing what it is, I cannot say with any degree of certainty. As for lighting to go with your new tank, I would think it would be relatively easy to find a 36" light fixture (30 watt bulb for normal fluorescent--more is you have it fitted with compact fluorescent lamps. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Steve, good hearing from you. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead------and establish a base line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as well as a proper power filter and heater. Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with "mail-order fish" exclusively! When you have a chance, Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM Bill, Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than having to do anything radical to it. You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31541	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Trying To Explain?

No the Africans will not get along OK with cory's. Africans want a higher pH than cory's and are too aggressive for the cory's. Do you have the cory's already? Because if you are just looking for a bottom feeder for an African tank, I've got options for you! -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Trying To Explain? Hi Everyone,   First of all I should have told you more about Bill than I did at first and certainly more about the now infamous 40-gallon tank.  This tank came as a result of a match up that Len and I talked over about a possible (that I still haven’t heard anything on, posted tank on the Internet).  The measurements given from it came very close to the tank mentioned at Glass Cages.  Acrylic or glass, I’m wondering what’s cheaper?  Someone, maybe Steve, just posted something about a shipment to Allentown, PA from Glass Cages?   OK, so what’s the big deal with this tank Bill?  Simple (as ol’ bill really is) this tank will fit exactly where I want it to go and is the largest size at these dimensions I can have, it would go on my bedroom dresser, at least for now.  Donna, Steve and others trying to help, please believe me, I love 55’s and at the regular or standard measurements they come in, I once had six of them.  But truth be told, we live in a very small Cape Cod home in the country (the darn well-water).  The  last time we purchase carpeting I believe we came in around 1,000 square feet.  I don’t have 4 feet of usable wall space anywhere.  If I did, I’d probably start with even a 75 because I learned long ago that you can really create some great underwater scenes with that extra width.  Years ago at first, that’s how I wound up with so many 100-gallon tanks, I couldn’t get room for my dream tank; a 180 gallon at 72 x 24 x24--------------------I still have dreams about that one!   Now about the Test Kits, I got so many responses I got lost so I’ll try again.  Is there one the will do the most important test?  And was this the “tetra” that was mentioned from Wally-World?  Sorry, but I am now going to start a “cut and paste”  from your mails into a regular tropical fish notebook!  The information you folks are giving me is just to valuable and I don’t want to risk your “wrath” by my asking you the same dumb questions twice.   A parting question?  I have kept fish of all types and sizes but none have ever trouble or bothered Corydoras type cat fish, their armor plating and spines I suppose, even my Oscars would not bother them and they got along quite well.  The oscars would eat like pigs and the cat's would cleanup after them!  My all-time favorites were the Colossoma brachypomum or Red-bellyed Pacu (at that time the local fish store thought that these nice little guys were red-bellied Piranha).  These guy’s got really big at over a foot and at 10 pounds each, I had 3.  Lines in the sand were drawn by the CEO after they outgrew their 100 gallon tank and I wanted to de-chlorinate the family pool and turn it over to them!  Would the African’s get along ok with Corydoras or not?   Thanks Again To All Of You For All Of Your Help,   Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31542	From: GrammyPat	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: what a day

We have a new Puppy. He's supposed to be a year old and trained. Yeah Right! so I am doing a water change today and he runs up and grabs the tubing out of the bucket and tries to run with it. Of course water was coming out of it at the time. The dumb mutt is standing there with the hose in his mouth and water squirting in his face. So while I am screaming and cleaning up water he takes off with my charcoal filter that I was swishing chews it apart and there is charcoal scattered all over my rug. Now you know why I only cleaned one tank today. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31543	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: what a day

LOL...I cant help but laugh. I have a zoo so I understand what you mean but hearing it makes me laugh. I know I know not quite so funny when its you. Gotta love em! Heather -----Original Message----- From: GrammyPat <grammypat@...> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:16 PM To: AquariumsFreshwater@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] what a day We have a new Puppy. He's supposed to be a year old and trained. Yeah Right! so I am doing a water change today and he runs up and grabs the tubing out of the bucket and tries to run with it. Of course water was coming out of it at the time. The dumb mutt is standing there with the hose in his mouth and water squirting in his face. So while I am screaming and cleaning up water he takes off with my charcoal filter that I was swishing chews it apart and there is charcoal scattered all over my rug. Now you know why I only cleaned one tank today. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31544	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: what a day

Pat, Not nearly as entertaining as your story. About 2 months ago I was doing midnight water changes and kept losing the siphon on my hose. I could not firgure out what was going on. I went outside and a pack of raccoons were trying to run off with the other end of my siphon hose! About three more times I had to run out side and shoe them away from the hose. -Mike We have a new Puppy. He's supposed to be a year old and trained. Yeah Right! so I am doing a water change today and he runs up and grabs the tubing out of the bucket and tries to run with it. Of course water was coming out of it at the time. The dumb mutt is standing there with the hose in his mouth and water squirting in his face. So while I am screaming and cleaning up water he takes off with my charcoal filter that I was swishing chews it apart and there is charcoal scattered all over my rug. Now you know why I only cleaned one tank today. Grammy Pat -----Original Message----- From: GrammyPat <grammypat@...> To: AquariumsFreshwater@yahoogroups.com; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 5:16 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] what a day We have a new Puppy. He's supposed to be a year old and trained. Yeah Right! so I am doing a water change today and he runs up and grabs the tubing out of the bucket and tries to run with it. Of course water was coming out of it at the time. The dumb mutt is standing there with the hose in his mouth and water squirting in his face. So while I am screaming and cleaning up water he takes off with my charcoal filter that I was swishing chews it apart and there is charcoal scattered all over my rug. Now you know why I only cleaned one tank today. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31545	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: what a day

I love it! ________________________________ From: ¤H3ATH3R¤ <lilredhd1@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 8:31:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] what a day LOL...I cant help but laugh. I have a zoo so I understand what you mean but hearing it makes me laugh. I know I know not quite so funny when its you. Gotta love em! Heather -----Original Message----- From: GrammyPat <grammypat@hughes. net> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:16 PM To: AquariumsFreshwater @yahoogroups. com; AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com; tropicalfishclub@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] what a day We have a new Puppy. He's supposed to be a year old and trained. Yeah Right! so I am doing a water change today and he runs up and grabs the tubing out of the bucket and tries to run with it. Of course water was coming out of it at the time. The dumb mutt is standing there with the hose in his mouth and water squirting in his face. So while I am screaming and cleaning up water he takes off with my charcoal filter that I was swishing chews it apart and there is charcoal scattered all over my rug. Now you know why I only cleaned one tank today. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31546	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Trying To Explain?

Yes ,I do.� Two albini and they are small enough to have a hard time with them. � bill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Trying To Explain? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 8:19 PM No the Africans will not get along OK with cory's. Africans want a higher pH than cory's and are too aggressive for the cory's. Do you have the cory's already? Because if you are just looking for a bottom feeder for an African tank, I've got options for you! -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Trying To Explain? Hi Everyone, � First of all I should have told you more about Bill than I did at first and certainly more about the now infamous 40-gallon tank.� This tank came as a result of a match up that Len and I talked over about a possible (that I still haven�t heard anything on, posted tank on the Internet).� The measurements given from it came very close to the tank mentioned at Glass Cages.� Acrylic or glass, I�m wondering what�s cheaper?� Someone, maybe Steve, just posted something about a shipment to Allentown, PA from Glass Cages? � OK, so what�s the big deal with this tank Bill?� Simple (as ol� bill really is) this tank will fit exactly where I want it to go and is the largest size at these dimensions I can have, it would go on my bedroom dresser, at least for now.� Donna, Steve and others trying to help, please believe me, I love 55�s and at the regular or standard measurements they come in, I once had six of them.� But truth be told, we live in a very small Cape Cod home in the country (the darn well-water).� The� last time we purchase carpeting I believe we came in around 1,000 square feet.� I don�t have 4 feet of usable wall space anywhere.� If I did, I�d probably start with even a 75 because I learned long ago that you can really create some great underwater scenes with that extra width.� Years ago at first, that�s how I wound up with so many 100-gallon tanks, I couldn�t get room for my dream tank; a 180 gallon at 72 x 24 x24--------- --------- --I still have dreams about that one! � Now about the Test Kits, I got so many responses I got lost so I�ll try again.� Is there one the will do the most important test?� And was this the �tetra� that was mentioned from Wally-World?� Sorry, but I am now going to start a �cut and paste�� from your mails into a regular tropical fish notebook!� The information you folks are giving me is just to valuable and I don�t want to risk your �wrath� by my asking you the same dumb questions twice. � A parting question?� I have kept fish of all types and sizes but none have ever trouble or bothered Corydoras type cat fish, their armor plating and spines I suppose, even my Oscars would not bother them and�they got along quite well.� The oscars would eat like pigs and the cat's would cleanup after them!� My all-time favorites were the Colossoma brachypomum or Red-bellyed Pacu (at that time the local fish store thought that these nice little guys were red-bellied Piranha).� These guy�s got really big at over a foot and at 10 pounds each, I had 3.� Lines in the sand were drawn by the CEO after they outgrew their 100 gallon tank and I wanted to de-chlorinate the family pool and turn it over to them!� Would�the African�s get along ok with Corydoras or not? � Thanks Again To All Of You For All Of Your Help, � Bill ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31547	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

A diatom filter is one that uses diatomaceous earth as a filter material--this substance is actually composed of diatoms similar to those we have talked about on this list several times. It has the ability to filter very fine particles from the water, down to 3 micros or even less. You can compare this to the size of a human hair, normally stated as being from 100-200 micros, though the actual size can be from 17-181 microns (Ley, Brian (1999). "Width of a Human Hair". The Physics Factbook.). It will not remove silicates or phosphates. However, after its use, your water will be very clear. It is not meant to be used full time as a filter. People use it to "polish" their water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 7:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! What's a diatom filter? A very fine filter, or a filter supposed to remove silicates and phosphates? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! http://www.fish.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=790088+002 is one place you can get the AquaTru master Test Kit. It is unfortunate that they are so hard to find. They are probably, overall, the best kits on the market. The formulas for NovAqua and Amquel have changed (patent ran out). The inventor is now distributing his wares through HikariUSA with new names. The diatom filter will not remove anything of interest from your water, other than any turbidity it may have. The activated carbon will not help with your pH nor hardness. You have indicated that there may be something else in your water that is not particularly kosher, but have not mentioned what it might be. The activated carbon may remove this, but not knowing what it is, I cannot say with any degree of certainty. As for lighting to go with your new tank, I would think it would be relatively easy to find a 36" light fixture (30 watt bulb for normal fluorescent--more is you have it fitted with compact fluorescent lamps. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Steve, good hearing from you. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead------and establish a base line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as well as a proper power filter and heater. Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with "mail-order fish" exclusively! When you have a chance, Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM Bill, Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than having to do anything radical to it. You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30-something gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the tank out of its shipping box. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31548	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Thanks John, � I appreciate your return mail.� I think I understand everything about the mailing part of it, its just the idea that your still buying sight-unseen and others have picked your fish for you.� That's ok if you know someone on the other end.� Now I realize you are very happy with your purchase and things have gone well but I always look at the other side------------------what if they had not? � For myself it may simply down to a no choice situation.� All fish hit the tank at once, because I have no other tanks.� No territories to chose because no-body is there first.� But I�m betting that the BIO-Load from a move like this would raise the roof!�� The tank risk is too great and you could lose everything you have in a matter of hours. � If possible I just want a simple community tank.� My old favorites are what we called 30 years ago �Red-Wag Platy�s�.� Good specimens had a deep rich red/orange color and black tail fins, I haven�t seen any lately..� Maybe some neon�s, which are always nice to watch if you have a goodly fist full and maybe some other types of live bearers. � African Cichlids are great fish but they are demanding and very aggressive at times.� At one point I even thought of a Marine tank but the work and the salt build up and mess, who needs it.� I don�t want to work that hard anymore, I�d rather watch and relax.� Besides, I learned years ago from Sea World in Florida, you want a Marine Tank, close it, drill it up through the bottom for proper piping, get your Halide lights going and your off.� Plus in some ozone generators and a few other tips I picked up down there and away you go.� � On one trip my wife purchased one of those behind the scene passes?� Well it rained like the devil and the only one to show up was me!� I had a guide completely to myself and I got to met Director�s, Curator�s, a few of the killer whale trainers and their whales and had a ball, instead of an hour tour I had an entire afternoon.� But really spent the most time at the filtration plants and studied what and how they were to keep them alive..� The kitchen there is something to see.� They really do many of the same things we do but only on a larger scale, quarantine tanks, medication tanks, everything the same only bigger. � Thanks for the return, � Bill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:31 PM Hi Bill � I bought 14 Fish and could not believe how well they were packed. Let me explain: � All fish were individually bagged (Triple Bagged )� � Between each fish there was a bag of air, to keep the fish very moving around too much, � All was packed in a Styrofoam Container. � Also I did not order from what they listed. I told them what I wanted and they called me when they had them. � I tried to get what I wanted within 100 miles of where I live and I couldn't get what I wanted and what they had would have cost a lot more. I think the fish were about 5.00 each and the shipment was 35.00. � If you are buying enough fish it is well worth it. And the beauty of it was that they were all added at the same time which is very good when you have Africans. That way they don't get the opportunity to set up territories before hand. � If you need more inf just ask. By the way don't forget that they traveled about 2500 miles from Pa to Nevada/ � John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:24 PM Hi John, � Not sure if this is a good answer with the cold weather coming on but for my own reference would you mind telling me the cost?� No necessary for the fish but the cost of the overnight shipment,� You seemed very pleased and good hering from you. � Bill in PA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:08 PM All the fish in my tank came from "That Fish Place" in an overnight shipment from Pa. to Nevada. There were 14 Africans. That was 5 years ago and every one of them is still alive and doing well. � I would highly�recommend them, In fact I still buy supplies from them occasionally. � John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 AM My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!� They are located in Lancaster, PA.� I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices!� :D � Chris in VA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31549	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Bill, As far as the bioload of adding all the fish at once, that is eliminated by doing the "Fishless Cycle" using the plain ammonia to build up your nitrifying bacteria colonies to where they can handle 4-5ppm/day which is what a normally stocked tank will create. Or if you wanted to buy Dr. Tim's One And Only, which will cycle a tank overnight to about 2-3ppm and use that as a jump start and then start feeding the plain ammonia to the tank and build it up to 4-5ppm in a few more days. Then keep adding the 4-5ppm of ammonia each day to keep the N-bacteria well fed until it's time to add the fish. Or the other option for a community tank is to go with a well planted tank and have it up and running and then add the fish. You might have to buy an RO filter or plan on buying distilled water to dilute with your possibly very hard well water but we still don't know for sure what your well water parameters are. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 8:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! Thanks John, I appreciate your return mail. I think I understand everything about the mailing part of it, its just the idea that your still buying sight-unseen and others have picked your fish for you. That's ok if you know someone on the other end. Now I realize you are very happy with your purchase and things have gone well but I always look at the other side------------------what if they had not? For myself it may simply down to a no choice situation. All fish hit the tank at once, because I have no other tanks. No territories to chose because no-body is there first. But I’m betting that the BIO-Load from a move like this would raise the roof! The tank risk is too great and you could lose everything you have in a matter of hours. If possible I just want a simple community tank. My old favorites are what we called 30 years ago “Red-Wag Platy’s”. Good specimens had a deep rich red/orange color and black tail fins, I haven’t seen any lately.. Maybe some neon’s, which are always nice to watch if you have a goodly fist full and maybe some other types of live bearers. African Cichlids are great fish but they are demanding and very aggressive at times. At one point I even thought of a Marine tank but the work and the salt build up and mess, who needs it. I don’t want to work that hard anymore, I’d rather watch and relax. Besides, I learned years ago from Sea World in Florida, you want a Marine Tank, close it, drill it up through the bottom for proper piping, get your Halide lights going and your off. Plus in some ozone generators and a few other tips I picked up down there and away you go. On one trip my wife purchased one of those behind the scene passes? Well it rained like the devil and the only one to show up was me! I had a guide completely to myself and I got to met Director’s, Curator’s, a few of the killer whale trainers and their whales and had a ball, instead of an hour tour I had an entire afternoon. But really spent the most time at the filtration plants and studied what and how they were to keep them alive.. The kitchen there is something to see. They really do many of the same things we do but only on a larger scale, quarantine tanks, medication tanks, everything the same only bigger. Thanks for the return, Bill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:31 PM Hi Bill I bought 14 Fish and could not believe how well they were packed. Let me explain: All fish were individually bagged (Triple Bagged ) Between each fish there was a bag of air, to keep the fish very moving around too much, All was packed in a Styrofoam Container. Also I did not order from what they listed. I told them what I wanted and they called me when they had them. I tried to get what I wanted within 100 miles of where I live and I couldn't get what I wanted and what they had would have cost a lot more. I think the fish were about 5.00 each and the shipment was 35.00. If you are buying enough fish it is well worth it. And the beauty of it was that they were all added at the same time which is very good when you have Africans. That way they don't get the opportunity to set up territories before hand. If you need more inf just ask. By the way don't forget that they traveled about 2500 miles from Pa to Nevada/ John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:24 PM Hi John, Not sure if this is a good answer with the cold weather coming on but for my own reference would you mind telling me the cost? No necessary for the fish but the cost of the overnight shipment, You seemed very pleased and good hering from you. Bill in PA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:08 PM All the fish in my tank came from "That Fish Place" in an overnight shipment from Pa. to Nevada. There were 14 Africans. That was 5 years ago and every one of them is still alive and doing well. I would highly recommend them, In fact I still buy supplies from them occasionally. John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 AM My favorite pet store in the whole wide world! They are located in Lancaster, PA. I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices! :D Chris in VA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 > 8:24:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 8:45:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31550	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Bill � First of all let me tell you a little about myself. I am also an "Old Timer" I am 73yrs old. I used to live in West Milford, New Jersey and had Well Water. At one time I had tanks that totaled around 2500 gallons Total. And Yes I also dabbled in Salt Water (Fish Only). � After I retired in 1996, we left NJ in a Motor Home and headed to Florida. We didn't know what we would do except we wanted to travel. During our first few year in Florida I became an Annual Member of Marineland and had privy to all the backroom happenings�Unfortunately Marineland was going Bankrupt and the fish were starting to be neglected. I soon was unable to handle it anymore and we moved on. � All the 7 1/2 yrs my wife and I spent on the road (Glorious Years I may add.) I dreamed of what my tank would be like when I could have one, (Tanks don't work in a Motor Home) � Well I knew what I wanted and what it would be like, right down to the last fish. No time for salt, so I settled on Africans. Auto feeders and way over filtered.. So I started to look for my fish, but the LFS were very disappointing. In Fact they made promises never kept. Then I decided to try Mail Order. Let me say it was my best move. Yes 14 Fish is a heavy Bio-Load, but all these fish were about 1 inch big. Today they are about 5 inches. With a little close monitoring the first few days, and your experience, you can do it.. Oh yes my tank was fully�cycled and timed, so the fish were added at the height of cycling. � Oh yes I forgot to tell you the fish were fully guaranteed, not only to be alive on delivery, but to live for 14 days. The quality of fish far surpassed anything my local LFS handled. No Regrets. And yes they were delivered from Lancaster in March 2003. I can tell you that if I had it all over to do, that would be the way it would be done. � Happy Fish Keeping John in Nevada� --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 PM Thanks John, � I appreciate your return mail.� I think I understand everything about the mailing part of it, its just the idea that your still buying sight-unseen and others have picked your fish for you.� That's ok if you know someone on the other end.� Now I realize you are very happy with your purchase and things have gone well but I always look at the other side------------------what if they had not? � For myself it may simply down to a no choice situation.� All fish hit the tank at once, because I have no other tanks.� No territories to chose because no-body is there first.� But I�m betting that the BIO-Load from a move like this would raise the roof!�� The tank risk is too great and you could lose everything you have in a matter of hours. � If possible I just want a simple community tank.� My old favorites are what we called 30 years ago �Red-Wag Platy�s�.� Good specimens had a deep rich red/orange color and black tail fins, I haven�t seen any lately..� Maybe some neon�s, which are always nice to watch if you have a goodly fist full and maybe some other types of live bearers. � African Cichlids are great fish but they are demanding and very aggressive at times.� At one point I even thought of a Marine tank but the work and the salt build up and mess, who needs it.� I don�t want to work that hard anymore, I�d rather watch and relax.� Besides, I learned years ago from Sea World in Florida, you want a Marine Tank, close it, drill it up through the bottom for proper piping, get your Halide lights going and your off.� Plus in some ozone generators and a few other tips I picked up down there and away you go.� � On one trip my wife purchased one of those behind the scene passes?� Well it rained like the devil and the only one to show up was me!� I had a guide completely to myself and I got to met Director�s, Curator�s, a few of the killer whale trainers and their whales and had a ball, instead of an hour tour I had an entire afternoon.� But really spent the most time at the filtration plants and studied what and how they were to keep them alive..� The kitchen there is something to see.� They really do many of the same things we do but only on a larger scale, quarantine tanks, medication tanks, everything the same only bigger. � Thanks for the return, � Bill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:31 PM Hi Bill � I bought 14 Fish and could not believe how well they were packed. Let me explain: � All fish were individually bagged (Triple Bagged )� � Between each fish there was a bag of air, to keep the fish very moving around too much, � All was packed in a Styrofoam Container. � Also I did not order from what they listed. I told them what I wanted and they called me when they had them. � I tried to get what I wanted within 100 miles of where I live and I couldn't get what I wanted and what they had would have cost a lot more. I think the fish were about 5.00 each and the shipment was 35.00. � If you are buying enough fish it is well worth it. And the beauty of it was that they were all added at the same time which is very good when you have Africans. That way they don't get the opportunity to set up territories before hand. � If you need more inf just ask. By the way don't forget that they traveled about 2500 miles from Pa to Nevada/ � John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:24 PM Hi John, � Not sure if this is a good answer with the cold weather coming on but for my own reference would you mind telling me the cost?� No necessary for the fish but the cost of the overnight shipment,� You seemed very pleased and good hering from you. � Bill in PA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:08 PM All the fish in my tank came from "That Fish Place" in an overnight shipment from Pa. to Nevada. There were 14 Africans. That was 5 years ago and every one of them is still alive and doing well. � I would highly�recommend them, In fact I still buy supplies from them occasionally. � John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 AM My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!� They are located in Lancaster, PA.� I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices!� :D � Chris in VA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31551	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 9:52:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31552	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

First off, Hello again. I once belonged to this group a while back. I have several fish and used to have a lionfish "Hercules", whom was injured somehow while I was at work and had to be put down. Today I found out that "Bruce" a 4ft Moray Eel is in deperate need of rescuing. I thought about this group and came here to see if I could find any resources. Bruce currently resides in a small aquarium at my LFS (Grass Valley, CA).....too small for him. He is free to a suitable home. I will be traveling from here to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere on my route. Pleae if anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me soon. We have tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not take him, so we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of days.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31553	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Make sure you post ads in the FREE section, in the For Sale section... and in the Lost/Found Pets section in all of the Craigslist City sites for any cities along your route. If you go to http://www.CraigsList.org, you'll see the list of individual States and Cities on the right. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP RESCUE BRUCE First off, Hello again. I once belonged to this group a while back. I have several fish and used to have a lionfish "Hercules", whom was injured somehow while I was at work and had to be put down. Today I found out that "Bruce" a 4ft Moray Eel is in deperate need of rescuing. I thought about this group and came here to see if I could find any resources. Bruce currently resides in a small aquarium at my LFS (Grass Valley, CA).....too small for him. He is free to a suitable home. I will be traveling from here to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere on my route. Pleae if anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me soon. We have tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not take him, so we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of days. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 10:11:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 10:14:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31554	From: bill1433	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Thanks John, � Your story here, plus the bit that Lenny just sent explains a lot.� To be more specific, can you tell me exactly what you have now and the size tank they are in and its parameter's if possible?� I should have realized at the out set that you would never spend that kind of money go through all of that worry and then lose fish. � You must forgive me here.� I�m just getting back �into it� and still very nervous about wondering if I still have that �wet thumb�!� You have probably already guessed most of that from the positing going back and fourth between Lenny and some of the regulars on this list trying to get me off the ground, so to speak.� As for instance with that post Lenny just made.� I have yet to go through all of this for myself; but folks like yourself, as well as Lenny and others here, make it seem as though it is possible even for a dry thumb to maybe make it. � Bill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 10:24 PM Bill � First of all let me tell you a little about myself. I am also an "Old Timer" I am 73yrs old. I used to live in West Milford, New Jersey and had Well Water. At one time I had tanks that totaled around 2500 gallons Total. And Yes I also dabbled in Salt Water (Fish Only). � After I retired in 1996, we left NJ in a Motor Home and headed to Florida. We didn't know what we would do except we wanted to travel. During our first few year in Florida I became an Annual Member of Marineland and had privy to all the backroom happenings�Unfortunately Marineland was going Bankrupt and the fish were starting to be neglected. I soon was unable to handle it anymore and we moved on. � All the 7 1/2 yrs my wife and I spent on the road (Glorious Years I may add..) I dreamed of what my tank would be like when I could have one, (Tanks don't work in a Motor Home) � Well I knew what I wanted and what it would be like, right down to the last fish. No time for salt, so I settled on Africans. Auto feeders and way over filtered.. So I started to look for my fish, but the LFS were very disappointing. In Fact they made promises never kept. Then I decided to try Mail Order. Let me say it was my best move. Yes 14 Fish is a heavy Bio-Load, but all these fish were about 1 inch big. Today they are about 5 inches. With a little close monitoring the first few days, and your experience, you can do it.. Oh yes my tank was fully�cycled and timed, so the fish were added at the height of cycling. � Oh yes I forgot to tell you the fish were fully guaranteed, not only to be alive on delivery, but to live for 14 days. The quality of fish far surpassed anything my local LFS handled. No Regrets. And yes they were delivered from Lancaster in March 2003. I can tell you that if I had it all over to do, that would be the way it would be done. � Happy Fish Keeping John in Nevada� --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 PM Thanks John, � I appreciate your return mail.� I think I understand everything about the mailing part of it, its just the idea that your still buying sight-unseen and others have picked your fish for you.� That's ok if you know someone on the other end.� Now I realize you are very happy with your purchase and things have gone well but I always look at the other side------------------what if they had not? � For myself it may simply down to a no choice situation.� All fish hit the tank at once, because I have no other tanks.� No territories to chose because no-body is there first.� But I�m betting that the BIO-Load from a move like this would raise the roof!�� The tank risk is too great and you could lose everything you have in a matter of hours. � If possible I just want a simple community tank.� My old favorites are what we called 30 years ago �Red-Wag Platy�s�.� Good specimens had a deep rich red/orange color and black tail fins, I haven�t seen any lately..� Maybe some neon�s, which are always nice to watch if you have a goodly fist full and maybe some other types of live bearers. � African Cichlids are great fish but they are demanding and very aggressive at times.� At one point I even thought of a Marine tank but the work and the salt build up and mess, who needs it.� I don�t want to work that hard anymore, I�d rather watch and relax.� Besides, I learned years ago from Sea World in Florida, you want a Marine Tank, close it, drill it up through the bottom for proper piping, get your Halide lights going and your off.� Plus in some ozone generators and a few other tips I picked up down there and away you go.� � On one trip my wife purchased one of those behind the scene passes?� Well it rained like the devil and the only one to show up was me!� I had a guide completely to myself and I got to met Director�s, Curator�s, a few of the killer whale trainers and their whales and had a ball, instead of an hour tour I had an entire afternoon.� But really spent the most time at the filtration plants and studied what and how they were to keep them alive..� The kitchen there is something to see.� They really do many of the same things we do but only on a larger scale, quarantine tanks, medication tanks, everything the same only bigger. � Thanks for the return, � Bill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:31 PM Hi Bill � I bought 14 Fish and could not believe how well they were packed. Let me explain: � All fish were individually bagged (Triple Bagged )� � Between each fish there was a bag of air, to keep the fish very moving around too much, � All was packed in a Styrofoam Container. � Also I did not order from what they listed. I told them what I wanted and they called me when they had them. � I tried to get what I wanted within 100 miles of where I live and I couldn't get what I wanted and what they had would have cost a lot more. I think the fish were about 5.00 each and the shipment was 35.00. � If you are buying enough fish it is well worth it. And the beauty of it was that they were all added at the same time which is very good when you have Africans. That way they don't get the opportunity to set up territories before hand. � If you need more inf just ask. By the way don't forget that they traveled about 2500 miles from Pa to Nevada/ � John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:24 PM Hi John, � Not sure if this is a good answer with the cold weather coming on but for my own reference would you mind telling me the cost?� No necessary for the fish but the cost of the overnight shipment,� You seemed very pleased and good hering from you. � Bill in PA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:08 PM All the fish in my tank came from "That Fish Place" in an overnight shipment from Pa. to Nevada. There were 14 Africans. That was 5 years ago and every one of them is still alive and doing well. � I would highly�recommend them, In fact I still buy supplies from them occasionally. � John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 AM My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!� They are located in Lancaster, PA.� I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices!� :D � Chris in VA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31555	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

With your permission I would like to forward this to a couple of the Aquarium societies I belong to in the Bay Area. -Mike First off, Hello again. I once belonged to this group a while back. I have several fish and used to have a lionfish "Hercules", whom was injured somehow while I was at work and had to be put down. Today I found out that "Bruce" a 4ft Moray Eel is in deperate need of rescuing. I thought about this group and came here to see if I could find any resources. Bruce currently resides in a small aquarium at my LFS (Grass Valley, CA).....too small for him. He is free to a suitable home. I will be traveling from here to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere on my route. Pleae if anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me soon. We have tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not take him, so we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of days. -----Original Message----- From: devillookslikeanangel <porcupinepufferfish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 8:05 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP RESCUE BRUCE First off, Hello again. I once belonged to this group a while back. I have several fish and used to have a lionfish "Hercules", whom was injured somehow while I was at work and had to be put down. Today I found out that "Bruce" a 4ft Moray Eel is in deperate need of rescuing. I thought about this group and came here to see if I could find any resources. Bruce currently resides in a small aquarium at my LFS (Grass Valley, CA).....too small for him. He is free to a suitable home. I will be traveling from here to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere on my route. Pleae if anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me soon. We have tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not take him, so we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of days. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31556	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Bill, You are already so far ahead of most fish keepers. Taking the time to research ahead of time is admirable. My father was a fish keeper when I was a child. I had to move back in with him a while back and I had a large fantail goldfish, beatiful fish, and he thought the water looked a little poor so he added water to the water container. In short he killed the fish. I told him numerous times that tap water had chloramines in it and it will kill fish. I am not sure if it was a memory issue with dad, or if he did not believe his son knew more than he did about fishkeeping and he chose to ignore it. Now my dad has a fish tank of his own, but I maintain it for him. Keep researching all you want, again, you are ahead of the game already. -Mike You must forgive me here.  I’m just getting back “into it” and still very ervous about wondering if I still have that “wet thumb”!  You have probably lready guessed most of that from the positing going back and fourth between enny and some of the regulars on this list trying to get me off the ground, so o speak.  As for instance with that post Lenny just made.  I have yet to go hrough all of this for myself; but folks like yourself, as well as Lenny and thers here, make it seem as though it is possible even for a dry thumb to maybe ake it. ill -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: Aqua ticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 8:23 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! Thanks John, our story here, plus the bit that Lenny just sent explains a lot.  To be more pecific, can you tell me exactly what you have now and the size tank they are n and its parameter's if possible?  I should have realized at the out set that ou would never spend that kind of money go through all of that worry and then ose fish. ou must forgive me here.  I’m just getting back “into it” and still very ervous about wondering if I still have that “wet thumb”!  You have probably lready guessed most of that from the positing going back and fourth between enny and some of the regulars on this list trying to get me off the ground, so o speak.  As for instance with that post Lenny just made.  I have yet to go hrough all of this for myself; but folks like yourself, as well as Lenny and thers here, make it seem as though it is possible even for a dry thumb to maybe ake it. ill -- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ate: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 10:24 PM Bill irst of all let me tell you a little about myself. I am also an "Old imer" I am 73yrs old. used to live in West Milford, New Jersey and had Well Water. At one time I ad tanks t hat totaled around 2500 gallons Total. And Yes I also dabbled in Salt ater (Fish Only). fter I retired in 1996, we left NJ in a Motor Home and headed to Florida. We idn't know what we would do except we wanted to travel. During our first ew year in Florida I became an Annual Member of Marineland and had privy to all he backroom happenings Unfortunately Marineland was going Bankrupt and the ish were starting to be neglected. I soon was unable to handle it anymore and e moved on. ll the 7 1/2 yrs my wife and I spent on the road (Glorious Years I may add..) I reamed of what my tank would be like when I could have one, (Tanks don't ork in a Motor Home) ell I knew what I wanted and what it would be like, right down to the last ish. No time for salt, so I settled on Africans. Auto feeders and way over iltered.. So I started to look for my fish, but the LFS were very isappointing. In Fact they made promises never kept. Then I decided to try Mail rder. Let me say it was my best move. Yes 14 Fish is a heavy Bio-Load, but all hese fish were about 1 inch big. Today they are about 5 inches. With a little lose monitoring the first few days, and your experience, you can do it.. Oh yes y tank was fully cycled and timed, so the fish were added at the height of ycling. h yes I forgot to tell you the fish were fully guaranteed, not only to be live on delivery, but to live for 14 days. The quality of fish far surpassed nything my local LFS ha ndled. No Regrets. And yes they were delivered from ancaster in March 2003. I can tell you that if I had it all over to do, that ould be the way it would be done. appy Fish Keeping ohn in Nevada  --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ate: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 PM Thanks John, appreciate your return mail.  I think I understand everything about the ailing art of it, its just the idea that your still buying sight-unseen and others ave picked your fish for you.  That's ok if you know someone on the other nd.  Now I realize you are very happy with your purchase and things have gone ell but I always look at the other side------------------what if they had not? or myself it may simply down to a no choice situation.  All fish hit the tank t once, because I have no other tanks.  No territories to chose because o-body is there first.  But I’m betting that the BIO-Load from a move like his would raise the roof!   The tank risk is too great and you could lose verything you have in a matter of hours. f possible I just want a simple community tank.  My old favorites are what we alled 30 years ago “Red-Wag Platy’s”.  Good specimens had a deep rich ed/orange color and black tail fins, I haven’t seen any lately..  Maybe ome eon’s, which are always nice to watch if20you have a goodly fist full and aybe some other types of live bearers. frican Cichlids are great fish but they are demanding and very aggressive at imes.  At one point I even thought of a Marine tank but the work and the salt uild up and mess, who needs it.  I don’t want to work that hard anymore, ’d rather watch and relax.  Besides, I learned years ago from Sea World in lorida, you want a Marine Tank, close it, drill it up through the bottom for roper piping, get your Halide lights going and your off.  Plus in some ozone enerators and a few other tips I picked up down there and away you go.  n one trip my wife purchased one of those behind the scene passes?  Well it ained like the devil and the only one to show up was me!  I had a guide ompletely to myself and I got to met Director’s, Curator’s, a few of the iller whale trainers and their whales and had a ball, instead of an hour tour ad an entire afternoon.  But really spent the most time at the filtration lants and studied what and how they were to keep them alive..  The kitchen here is something to see.  They really do many of the same things we do but nly on a larger scale, quarantine tanks, medication tanks, everything the same nly bigger. hanks for the return, ill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups .com ate: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:31 PM i Bill bought 14 Fish and could not believe how well they were packed. Let me xplain: ll fish were individually bagged (Triple Bagged )  etween each fish there was a bag of air, to keep the fish very moving around oo much, ll was packed in a Styrofoam Container. lso I did not order from what they listed. I told them what I wanted and they alled me when they had them. tried to get what I wanted within 100 miles of where I live and I ouldn't get what I wanted and what they had would have cost a lot more. I hink the fish were about 5.00 each and the shipment was 35.00. f you are buying enough fish it is well worth it. And the beauty of it was hat they were all added at the same time which is very good when you have fricans. That way they don't get the opportunity to set up territories efore hand. f you need more inf just ask. By the way don't forget that they traveled bout 2500 miles from Pa to Nevada/ ohn in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! o: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com ate: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:24 PM Hi John, ot sure if this is a good answer with the cold weather coming on but for my wn reference would you mind telling me the cost?  No necessary for the fish ut the cost of the overnight shipment,  You seemed very pleased and good e ring from you. ill in PA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! o: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com ate: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:08 PM All the fish in my tank came from "That Fish Place" in an overnight hipment from Pa. to Nevada. There were 14 Africans. That was 5 years ago and very one of them is still alive and doing well. would highly recommend them, In fact I still buy supplies from them ccasionally. ohn in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! o: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com ate: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 AM My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!  They are located in Lancaster, A.  I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a lack'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices!  :D hris in VA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> ubject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! o: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com ate: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not uite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite emember where in PA it is located but there is a store called hatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is hatfishpl ace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a riend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i o know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember ook up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm nd a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is aving to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything nline. Hope this may be of some help, mber -- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: Bill, Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you lso need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master est kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody EEDS a decent Master Test Kit". The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and 60.00 respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate nd pH. The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, ncluding GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply o not have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of hem. They are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing rong with a lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be oncerned about a lab that mislabels my first test with them .. lol), but that ay be overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the its above. In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you ould get all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years orth of testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you ould go with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around 105.00. The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than he basic Master Test Kit. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Steve, good hearing from you. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by ordon. Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could ot find anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close o want the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? ot to orry, they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample e gave and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand Bill's" luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I ay maybe to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and stabli sh a base line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I ould be using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with uper Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. aybe that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that ime we were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then hat did not diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the hlorine; come to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of y interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 allon). Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light Perfecto Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a ouble or twin unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't hat high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types ater as well as a proper power filter and heater. Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be oing with "mail-order fish" exclusively! When you have a chance, Bill --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM =0 D Bill, Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least hose who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of ewcomers to the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but ven if we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having roblems with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by ordon. They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but our ole eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral ontent, RO is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your wn still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than istilled water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to econstitute it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but ave no idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some hat will guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of eeks, I don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to ou. Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. 'd like to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, hough you just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water ather than having to do anything radical to it. You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, nless you have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you eed. You can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes ish. One absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. nother is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ ahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM To: Fish Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past three days or so and have made some radical observations that I ould like to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to ear from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high ineral problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab ight now) I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium hat I haven't even purchased yet. Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have ith a few fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish his with this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only istilled water for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- omething gallon tank for the future they could be. Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here ust trying to learn more. If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here fter reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone ell me where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I orking with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and uy that much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I ould afford it. What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which ould neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only ptions? On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 iles of here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased heir fish)? I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already entioned on this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I ank I'd really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 8 x 13. I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw or sale on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by ho? The Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take onths to hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to ift the tank out of its shipping box. bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ o You Yahoo!? ired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around ttp://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ o You Yahoo!? ired of spam? Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31557	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/18/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

Actually my tank is a 75 gallon glass Tank. 48x18x18. I am loaded with rocks (about 35) and two large sewer pipes, Some artificial plants and some driftwood. Plenty of caves. I run 2 110 Hagen Filters and one Hot Magnaum Canister Filter. Lots of air. My water parameters are PH around 7,4, Yes I do put in a buffer with every water change, Maybe it is a waste, but it seems to keep my PH constant. Mt Nitrate is around 20-30ppm. My Ammonia and Nitrate 0. I do not worry about Hardness. I Auto feed 3 times a night using a Eheim Auto Feeder. Oh yes about 40 % change every 2 weeks �I do not use any Carbon just sponges and bio cubes in my Hagen Filters. � My Fish are: Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 6 � I see now I acually had 15 sent The Rustys I bought Locally. � I also have 1 6" Pleco (Common) Ihad a lot of trouble with these and have had several large pleco's die on me. Actually I think the Africans killed them.. as I found thir bones. Also tried some cories but they disappeared. � John � . --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 8:23 PM Thanks John, � Your story here, plus the bit that Lenny just sent explains a lot.� To be more specific, can you tell me exactly what you have now and the size tank they are in and its parameter's if possible?� I should have realized at the out set that you would never spend that kind of money go through all of that worry and then lose fish. � You must forgive me here.� I�m just getting back �into it� and still very nervous about wondering if I still have that �wet thumb�!� You have probably already guessed most of that from the positing going back and fourth between Lenny and some of the regulars on this list trying to get me off the ground, so to speak.� As for instance with that post Lenny just made.� I have yet to go through all of this for myself; but folks like yourself, as well as Lenny and others here, make it seem as though it is possible even for a dry thumb to maybe make it. � Bill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 10:24 PM Bill � First of all let me tell you a little about myself. I am also an "Old Timer" I am 73yrs old. I used to live in West Milford, New Jersey and had Well Water. At one time I had tanks that totaled around 2500 gallons Total. And Yes I also dabbled in Salt Water (Fish Only). � After I retired in 1996, we left NJ in a Motor Home and headed to Florida. We didn't know what we would do except we wanted to travel. During our first few year in Florida I became an Annual Member of Marineland and had privy to all the backroom happenings�Unfortunately Marineland was going Bankrupt and the fish were starting to be neglected. I soon was unable to handle it anymore and we moved on. � All the 7 1/2 yrs my wife and I spent on the road (Glorious Years I may add..) I dreamed of what my tank would be like when I could have one, (Tanks don't work in a Motor Home) � Well I knew what I wanted and what it would be like, right down to the last fish. No time for salt, so I settled on Africans. Auto feeders and way over filtered.. So I started to look for my fish, but the LFS were very disappointing. In Fact they made promises never kept. Then I decided to try Mail Order. Let me say it was my best move. Yes 14 Fish is a heavy Bio-Load, but all these fish were about 1 inch big. Today they are about 5 inches. With a little close monitoring the first few days, and your experience, you can do it.. Oh yes my tank was fully�cycled and timed, so the fish were added at the height of cycling. � Oh yes I forgot to tell you the fish were fully guaranteed, not only to be alive on delivery, but to live for 14 days. The quality of fish far surpassed anything my local LFS handled. No Regrets. And yes they were delivered from Lancaster in March 2003. I can tell you that if I had it all over to do, that would be the way it would be done. � Happy Fish Keeping John in Nevada� --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 PM Thanks John, � I appreciate your return mail.� I think I understand everything about the mailing part of it, its just the idea that your still buying sight-unseen and others have picked your fish for you.� That's ok if you know someone on the other end.� Now I realize you are very happy with your purchase and things have gone well but I always look at the other side------------------what if they had not? � For myself it may simply down to a no choice situation.� All fish hit the tank at once, because I have no other tanks.� No territories to chose because no-body is there first.� But I�m betting that the BIO-Load from a move like this would raise the roof!�� The tank risk is too great and you could lose everything you have in a matter of hours. � If possible I just want a simple community tank.� My old favorites are what we called 30 years ago �Red-Wag Platy�s�.� Good specimens had a deep rich red/orange color and black tail fins, I haven�t seen any lately..� Maybe some neon�s, which are always nice to watch if you have a goodly fist full and maybe some other types of live bearers. � African Cichlids are great fish but they are demanding and very aggressive at times.� At one point I even thought of a Marine tank but the work and the salt build up and mess, who needs it.� I don�t want to work that hard anymore, I�d rather watch and relax.� Besides, I learned years ago from Sea World in Florida, you want a Marine Tank, close it, drill it up through the bottom for proper piping, get your Halide lights going and your off.� Plus in some ozone generators and a few other tips I picked up down there and away you go.� � On one trip my wife purchased one of those behind the scene passes?� Well it rained like the devil and the only one to show up was me!� I had a guide completely to myself and I got to met Director�s, Curator�s, a few of the killer whale trainers and their whales and had a ball, instead of an hour tour I had an entire afternoon.� But really spent the most time at the filtration plants and studied what and how they were to keep them alive..� The kitchen there is something to see.� They really do many of the same things we do but only on a larger scale, quarantine tanks, medication tanks, everything the same only bigger. � Thanks for the return, � Bill --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:31 PM Hi Bill � I bought 14 Fish and could not believe how well they were packed. Let me explain: � All fish were individually bagged (Triple Bagged )� � Between each fish there was a bag of air, to keep the fish very moving around too much, � All was packed in a Styrofoam Container. � Also I did not order from what they listed. I told them what I wanted and they called me when they had them. � I tried to get what I wanted within 100 miles of where I live and I couldn't get what I wanted and what they had would have cost a lot more. I think the fish were about 5.00 each and the shipment was 35.00. � If you are buying enough fish it is well worth it. And the beauty of it was that they were all added at the same time which is very good when you have Africans. That way they don't get the opportunity to set up territories before hand. � If you need more inf just ask. By the way don't forget that they traveled about 2500 miles from Pa to Nevada/ � John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:24 PM Hi John, � Not sure if this is a good answer with the cold weather coming on but for my own reference would you mind telling me the cost?� No necessary for the fish but the cost of the overnight shipment,� You seemed very pleased and good hering from you. � Bill in PA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@sbcglobal . net> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 1:08 PM All the fish in my tank came from "That Fish Place" in an overnight shipment from Pa. to Nevada. There were 14 Africans. That was 5 years ago and every one of them is still alive and doing well. � I would highly�recommend them, In fact I still buy supplies from them occasionally. � John in Nevada --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 6:40 AM My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!� They are located in Lancaster, PA.� I started ordering from them years ago when all they were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their prices!� :D � Chris in VA --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> wrote: From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and i do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance is having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything online. Hope this may be of some help, Amber --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Bill, > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since you also > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic master test > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody NEEDS a > decent Master Test Kit". > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and $60.00 > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, including > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They simply do not > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of them. They > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing wrong with a > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be concerned > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but that may be > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish tanks. > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the kits above. > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as you would get > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years worth of > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, you could go > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around $105.00. > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more than the > basic Master Test Kit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could not find > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes close to want > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to worry, > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample we gave > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I say maybe > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and establish a base > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary I would be > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom with Super > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. Maybe > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that time we > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then that did not > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the chlorine; come > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank of my > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 gallon). > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light (Perfecto > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a double or twin > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank isn't that > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types later as > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be going with > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > When you have a chance, > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at least those > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of newcomers to > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, but even if > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having problems > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by Kordon. > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but your ole > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading results. > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral content, RO > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up your own > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than distilled > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to reconstitute > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, but have no > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some that will > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of weeks, I > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back to you. > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any further. I'd like > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, though you > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water rather than > having to do anything radical to it. > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, unless you > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you need. You > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes fish. One > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. com. Another > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > To: Fish Group > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for the past > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I would like > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love to hear > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have high mineral > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab right now) > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an aquarium that I > haven't even purchased yet. > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have with a few > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish this with > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only distilled water > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- something > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching and > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called them > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists--- > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here just > trying to learn more. > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions here after > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it must > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone tell me > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I working > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and buy that > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if I could > afford it. > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which could > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only options? > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 miles of > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased their fish)? > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already mentioned on > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I tank I'd > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x 18 x 13. > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from this list > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw for sale > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by who? The > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take months to > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to lift the > tank out of its shipping box. > > bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31558	From: greychildren	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Livin' At Lenny's!

I heard the darnest this this weekend when i went to my local petsmart" Guy goes up to girl working the fish department Guy ask girl "can i get the garamies and some of the corys? girl at fish department states i kid you not i was next to the guy" you can't have garamies with cory's because garamies think there too pretty to be with other fish" I was blown by this statement! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ajb21130" <ajb21130@...> wrote: > > Ill have to agree that it is prob my most favorite as well. I will > never forget the first time i walked in there i was in heaven, Like a > kid in a candy store i wanted everything!!! lol I had never saw such > a selection of aquariums and accessories in my life. There selection > of fish isnt bad either. Any one who lives close or a few hours away > should def check that fish place out!! And yes watch out for the > buggies lol > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Chris Owens-Polski > <chris_o_p@> wrote: > > > > My favorite pet store in the whole wide world!  They are located in > Lancaster, PA.  I started ordering from them years ago when all they > were was a black'n'white inventory list of what they had and their > prices!  :D > >   > > Chris in VA > > > > --- On Sat, 10/18/08, ajb21130 <ajb21130@> wrote: > > > > From: ajb21130 <ajb21130@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Livin' At Lenny's! > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:01 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill i think i read in here somewhere that you are in PA. Im not > > quite sure how close this store would be to you and i cant quite > > remember where in PA it is located but there is a store called > > thatfishplace and the do have a website as well. I beleive it is > > thatfishplace. com, I use to live in MD and i would go there with a > > friend for his fishie needs. They have tons of fish and supplys and > i > > do know they have cichlids but as to what types i can not remember > > look up this place maybe it will help so you dont have to pay an > arm > > and a leg for shipping. I am in TN now and that is what my fiance > is > > having to do with our saltwater tank we have to order everything > > online. Hope this may be of some help, > > Amber > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Since price is a concern... isn't it for everyone?... and since > you > > also > > > need the GH and KH test kits that do not come with the basic > master > > test > > > kits for API or Kordon, you may want to look at the Hagen or the > > > Tetra-Laborette test kits I have linked on my article, "Everybody > > NEEDS a > > > decent Master Test Kit". > > > > > > The basic API and Kordon Master Test kits cost around $15.00 and > > $60.00 > > > respectively and only have the tests for ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate > > and pH. > > > The Tetra-Laborette and Hagen kits which have 10 different tests, > > including > > > GH and KH costs around $20.00 and $45.00 respectively. They > simply > > do not > > > have as much reagents in them so you would get less tests out of > > them. They > > > are still much more affordable than relying on a lab. Nothing > > wrong with a > > > lab's prices for a really scientific analysis (although I'd be > > concerned > > > about a lab that mislabels my first test with them.. lol), but > that > > may be > > > overkill for the kind of testing we need to do for our fish > tanks. > > > > > > Your next $60.00 will be much better spent on one or more of the > > kits above. > > > In fact, I might recommend the API and Tetra-Laborette kits as > you > > would get > > > all the test kits you could need and would have at least a years > > worth of > > > testing for around $35.00 - $40.00 (I use these two kits). Or, > you > > could go > > > with the Kordon and Hagen and have all the test kits for around > > $105.00. > > > The Kordon kit that does include the GH and KH costs much more > than > > the > > > basic Master Test Kit. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > > > Steve, good hearing from you. > > > > > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by > > Kordon. > > > Yes, Len mentioned them and I went over to their site but I could > > not find > > > anything about price? Incidentally the figure Len gave comes > close > > to want > > > the "Lab" wants and that's only for one test! On the Lab? Not to > > worry, > > > they called this afternoon saying that they miss-coded the sample > > we gave > > > and could we give another? Now maybe you'll understand "Bill's" > > > luck-------if it can go wrong it will happen to me. Right now I > > say maybe > > > to buy that Kordon Kit and do my own test instead----- -and > > establish a base > > > line reference. If a reduction in mineral content were necessary > I > > would be > > > using the Kordon kit to monitor it anyway. > > > > > > On that RO, would that take or be reduced in value if a Diatom > with > > Super > > > Char were used with it? I am strong believer in those filters. > > Maybe > > > that's why I never tested years ago. Plus the fact that at that > > time we > > > were using town water with a neutral PH. I used a product then > > that did not > > > diminish with a Diatom's use called NovaQua to knockout the > > chlorine; come > > > to think of it I believe it too was made by Kordon. > > > > > > On Glass Cages. I don't know if you missed the post on the tank > of > > my > > > interest but they have an acrylic 36 x 16 x 13 they call a 40 (36 > > gallon). > > > Tank looks great but having the devil to find a simple light > > (Perfecto > > > Type?) to go on top. I'm thinking that at this width maybe a > > double or twin > > > unit model under one cover would be better but then the tank > isn't > > that > > > high? I'll be back with you and Len both to talk about tube types > > later as > > > well as a proper power filter and heater. > > > > > > Steve, I just might be the only member on the group who will be > > going with > > > "mail-order fish" exclusively! > > > > > > When you have a chance, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Steve Szabo <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 7:42 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Back 30+ years ago freshwater people did a lot of testing, at > least > > those > > > who cared about their fish did. In this forum, you see a lot of > > newcomers to > > > the hobby, and that is why testing is emphasized here so much, > but > > even if > > > we were dealing regularly with experienced people who were having > > problems > > > with their tanks, you would hear a lot about testing. > > > > > > Best test kits on the market are the AquaTru kits, distributed by > > Kordon. > > > They are a bit hard to find, and a bit heavy on the wallet, but > > your ole > > > eyes will thank you for the ease they give you when reading > results. > > > > > > As for your water treatment, if you need to reduce your mineral > > content, RO > > > is the way you probably want to go, unless you want to set up > your > > own > > > still, which may be useful in producing beverages other than > > distilled > > > water. Once you have distilled water, you will probably want to > > reconstitute > > > it to a certain extent. I used to have some recipes to do this, > but > > have no > > > idea where they walked off to. I'm sure that you can locate some > > that will > > > guide you to producing water of a certain pH and hardness. > > > > > > You cannot go wrong with Glass Cages. Their tanks are first rate. > > > > > > The lab should have your results back to you within a couple of > > weeks, I > > > don't see why it should take them months to get the results back > to > > you. > > > Frankly, I'd wait until they do come back before I go any > further. > > I'd like > > > to know if I am going to need to go with RO or another method, > > though you > > > just may need to adjust your choice of fish to fit your water > > rather than > > > having to do anything radical to it. > > > > > > You probably do not need to darken the doorway to Wally's house, > > unless you > > > have an emergency, and then they are likely not to have what you > > need. You > > > can get everything by mail order through the web. That includes > > fish. One > > > absolutely trustworthy source for fish is www.thefishwizards. > com. > > Another > > > is www.anubiasdesign. com. And there are others as well. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > yahoogroups. com] > > > On Behalf Of bill1433 > > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:34 AM > > > To: Fish Group > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Livin' At Lenny's! > > > > > > Ol' bill here; I have been living over at Lenny's web site for > the > > past > > > three days or so and have made some radical observations that I > > would like > > > to state and maybe have some of you folks comment on. > > > > > > I have well water (anyone on this list with well-water, I'd love > to > > hear > > > from you and where you are located) and although I know I have > high > > mineral > > > problems (we are waiting on an actual chemical work up from a lab > > right now) > > > I'd like to know what could be done for it to start up an > aquarium > > that I > > > haven't even purchased yet. > > > > > > Some may recall that I mentioned a small 3-gallon hex that I have > > with a few > > > fish in it that are doing well. You might ask how I accomplish > > this with > > > this type of water we have now? Simple, I buy and use only > > distilled water > > > for them. PWC for a 3-gallon tank are not that great but in a 30- > > something > > > gallon tank for the future they could be. > > > > > > Next, years ago (over 30) people did a lot of the water watching > and > > > monitoring that you folks seem to be doing today but we called > them > > > something different back then. They were called Marine Aquarists-- > - > > > --------- ----NOT Freshwater Aquarists! I am not condemning here > > just > > > trying to learn more. > > > > > > If you folks are doing all this water watching (my conclusions > here > > after > > > reading your posts since I joined this list) I realize that it > must > > > certainly have purpose. Obviously you folks today are much more > > > knowledgeable than we were back then. My question is can someone > > tell me > > > where or how I could start a new tank that is larger than what I > > working > > > with, considering my current problems. No, we cannot go out and > > buy that > > > much distilled water and I couldn't lift it and haul it, even if > I > > could > > > afford it. > > > > > > > > > What I am after here is some type of additive or chemical which > > could > > > neutralize this problem. Or is reverse osmosis or diatom my only > > options? > > > On the tank itself, since I have no formal pet-stores within 50 > > miles of > > > here save for Wally World (Wal-Mart, has anyone ever purchased > > their fish)? > > > I think the tank would be purchased through Glass Cages already > > mentioned on > > > this list sometime ago. I was over on their web-site and found I > > tank I'd > > > really like to have in Acrylic no less, its called a 40 Long 36 x > > 18 x 13. > > > I came up with this size after some discussion with "Lenny" from > > this list > > > that was helping me try to identify a photo of another tank I saw > > for sale > > > on the net, but have heard nothing from the seller about. > > > > > > I'd appreciate any thoughts here. Where do I start? Test kit, by > > who? The > > > Tank it self? What's my next move? Considering it could take > > months to > > > hear from the lab, I'd like to get started before I'm too old to > > lift the > > > tank out of its shipping box. > > > > > > bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message > clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081017-1, 10/17/2008 > > > Tested on: 10/17/2008 8:24:53 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31559	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Sure please do. He is at a LFS called Muttley's Pet Emporium (530) 274-9996 in Grass Valley, CA.....the fish gals name is Miranda. She has tried Monteray and another aquarium with a name I can not recall in the bay area.....neither will take him. They will not take "PETS" It kind of angers me that he was able to be sold as a "PET" and now look where he is. He has quite a story, being transported around from one LFS to another. I am surprised at how well he is doing. The first time I saw him was 4 months ago at a different pet store, in worse condition. The folks at Muttley's are taking good care of him, but they do not have a big enough aquarium for him. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > With your permission I would like to forward this to a couple of the Aquarium societies I belong to in the Bay Area. > > -Mike > > > > > First off, Hello again. I once belonged to this group a while back. I > have several fish and used to have a lionfish "Hercules", whom was > injured somehow while I was at work and had to be put down. Today I > found out that "Bruce" a 4ft Moray Eel is in deperate need of > rescuing. I thought about this group and came here to see if I could > find any resources. Bruce currently resides in a small aquarium at my > LFS (Grass Valley, CA).....too small for him. He is free to a suitable > home. I will be traveling from here to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of > Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere on my route. Pleae if > anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me soon. We have > tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not take him, so > we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of days. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: devillookslikeanangel <porcupinepufferfish@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 8:05 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP RESCUE BRUCE > > > > > > > First off, Hello again. I once belonged to this group a while back. I > have several fish and used to have a lionfish "Hercules", whom was > injured somehow while I was at work and had to be put down. Today I > found out that "Bruce" a 4ft Moray Eel is in deperate need of > rescuing. I thought about > this group and came here to see if I could > find any resources. Bruce currently resides in a small aquarium at my > LFS (Grass Valley, CA).....too small for him. He is free to a suitable > home. I will be traveling from here to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of > Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere on my route. Pleae if > anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me soon. We have > tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not take him, so > we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of days. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31560	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Yeah Lenny I do not know about that. I hate craigslist, you never know what your getting into. I would rather find smeone who has a real passion for fish and knows how to care for them. Bruce has already been SOLD once to some dumb kid and now he is back at the pet store. That is how Muttley's got him. He was brought to them in a bucket. The only I thing I use craigslist for is when I am looking for new tanks, and I always make the seller fill them with water while I am there. I just don't trust it!!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Make sure you post ads in the FREE section, in the For Sale section... and > in the Lost/Found Pets section in all of the Craigslist City sites for any > cities along your route. If you go to http://www.CraigsList.org, you'll see > the list of individual States and Cities on the right. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP RESCUE BRUCE > > First off, Hello again. I once belonged to this group a while back. I have > several fish and used to have a lionfish "Hercules", whom was injured > somehow while I was at work and had to be put down. Today I found out that > "Bruce" a 4ft Moray Eel is in deperate need of rescuing. I thought about > this group and came here to see if I could find any resources. Bruce > currently resides in a small aquarium at my LFS (Grass Valley, CA).....too > small for him. He is free to a suitable home. I will be traveling from here > to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere > on my route. Pleae if anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me > soon. We have tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not > take him, so we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of > days. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 > Tested on: 10/18/2008 10:11:39 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 > Tested on: 10/18/2008 10:14:55 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31561	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Well, you should get the word out to as many sources as possible, IMO. It may take someone who knows someone who knows someone... to solve your issue. I have a "real passion" for fish and know how to take care of them but I do not and never have been actively involved in any fish societies. Technically, I've never been a member of one except for the free membership I have in SELAS (SouthEast Louisiana Aquarium Society) which started up in the past couple of years down here. The overwhelming majority of people do not belong to any kind of fish society. And there are thousands of online fish forums so just trying to post in them will be a daunting task. Putting a half-dozen free ads in Craigslist might just help recruit others who will post in their favorite forums if you put that in your ad also. You might also contact your local media outlets to get the word out. I know they do it for kittens and puppies down here all the time. Now posting in groups like this is good but I still think you should get the word out to as many as possible. You never know when you might come across a restaurant, business, aquarium maintenance service (you may want to contact them directly also), etc., that has a large enough tank or is putting in a large tank but just wasn't really looking around here or other fish forums but might have browsed through CraigsList looking for something else and comes across one of your ads using the search feature... if you put enough key words in your ad. You can still properly vet the prospective adaptor to make sure they are adequately supplied and skilled. Out of curiosity, I just did a Google search for - moray eel adoption - and guess what... the top hit came up as a Craigslist ad out of Las Vegas. You might want to duplicate that search and you'll see. That's another thing about Craigslist... they do get top hits on Google searches so your ad there may find the right adaptor who is looking to adopt a moray eel for their large new tank. I know if I was ever going with a new pond or really large tank, I'd look around for FREE BIG fish that others are giving away due to having undersized tanks/ponds. It would save me money and save some fish at the same time. I just did a Google Maps search on your location and travel plans and see you are in the Sacramento area so I just now posted an ad on Craigslist using your original notice out here as a template and I'll let you know if/when I get any hits. One last note... while checking the "Free Stuff" ads section to see if my ad made it up, I see this one from yesterday for a free "large" fish tank, stand and accessories. http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884795217.html Go get it! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 8:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE Yeah Lenny I do not know about that. I hate craigslist, you never know what your getting into. I would rather find smeone who has a real passion for fish and knows how to care for them. Bruce has already been SOLD once to some dumb kid and now he is back at the pet store. That is how Muttley's got him. He was brought to them in a bucket. The only I thing I use craigslist for is when I am looking for new tanks, and I always make the seller fill them with water while I am there. I just don't trust it!!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Make sure you post ads in the FREE section, in the For Sale section... and > in the Lost/Found Pets section in all of the Craigslist City sites for any > cities along your route. If you go to http://www.CraigsList.org, > <http://www.CraigsList.org,> you'll see > the list of individual States and Cities on the right. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP RESCUE BRUCE > > First off, Hello again. I once belonged to this group a while back. I have > several fish and used to have a lionfish "Hercules", whom was injured > somehow while I was at work and had to be put down. Today I found out that > "Bruce" a 4ft Moray Eel is in deperate need of rescuing. I thought about > this group and came here to see if I could find any resources. Bruce > currently resides in a small aquarium at my LFS (Grass Valley, CA).....too > small for him. He is free to a suitable home. I will be traveling from here > to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere > on my route. Pleae if anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me > soon. We have tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not > take him, so we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of > days. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 > 10:11:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 > 10:14:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 8:37:54 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 9:14:54 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31562	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Here's my ad on the Sacramento CraigsList Free Stuff section. I also see that you aren't far from Reno, LV so that may be another CL option. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: craigslist.org [mailto:noreply@...] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 9:09 AM To: nhsnola@... Subject: Your craigslist posting "Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel" Confirmation for Posting ID# 884958692 Your ad, titled "Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel," has been posted as follows: http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884958692.html (free stuff) <http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884958692.html> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 9:31:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31563	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Robot Fish

Yet another video of a robot fish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO9oseiCTdk \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31564	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Well, I've gotten two emails from the "Free Stuff" Craigslist Sacramento listing already... not much help yet but people are seeing it. 1) Could you possibly release him at the Ocean? (I replied explaining a tank kept fish wouldn't likely survive in the wild... at least not in the ocean. I didn't go into all of the other reasons.) 2) Try the pet section under community. Good luck. <http://sacramento.craigslist.org/forums/?forumID=26> http://sacramento.craigslist.org/forums/?forumID=26 (I'll leave this one to you since I'm not even in the area so I wouldn't be very good in the interaction with other locals) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 10:43:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31565	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

A couple more replies. 1) i have a good idea take him and set him free in ft. bragg? salt water duh biggest tank in the world and he'll find a mate maybe :-)he'll know what to do as soon as he hits the water he'd be happier Sandy and Mike 2) you should try capitol aquarium in Sacramento Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 10:55:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31566	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Here are a couple of other places you might look for a potential home for Bruce: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/   ( these guys LOVE the big 'uns and there are a lot of members in CA) Waterwolves.com  (same deal) We've sold some of our giant driftwood here.  These folks have seriously large tanks! Hope this will help, Jackie. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 7:14:58 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE Well, you should get the word out to as many sources as possible, IMO. It may take someone who knows someone who knows someone... to solve your issue. I have a "real passion" for fish and know how to take care of them but I do not and never have been actively involved in any fish societies. Technically, I've never been a member of one except for the free membership I have in SELAS (SouthEast Louisiana Aquarium Society) which started up in the past couple of years down here. The overwhelming majority of people do not belong to any kind of fish society. And there are thousands of online fish forums so just trying to post in them will be a daunting task. Putting a half-dozen free ads in Craigslist might just help recruit others who will post in their favorite forums if you put that in your ad also. You might also contact your local media outlets to get the word out. I know they do it for kittens and puppies down here all the time. Now posting in groups like this is good but I still think you should get the word out to as many as possible. You never know when you might come across a restaurant, business, aquarium maintenance service (you may want to contact them directly also), etc., that has a large enough tank or is putting in a large tank but just wasn't really looking around here or other fish forums but might have browsed through CraigsList looking for something else and comes across one of your ads using the search feature... if you put enough key words in your ad. You can still properly vet the prospective adaptor to make sure they are adequately supplied and skilled. Out of curiosity, I just did a Google search for - moray eel adoption - and guess what... the top hit came up as a Craigslist ad out of Las Vegas. You might want to duplicate that search and you'll see. That's another thing about Craigslist... they do get top hits on Google searches so your ad there may find the right adaptor who is looking to adopt a moray eel for their large new tank. I know if I was ever going with a new pond or really large tank, I'd look around for FREE BIG fish that others are giving away due to having undersized tanks/ponds. It would save me money and save some fish at the same time. I just did a Google Maps search on your location and travel plans and see you are in the Sacramento area so I just now posted an ad on Craigslist using your original notice out here as a template and I'll let you know if/when I get any hits. One last note... while checking the "Free Stuff" ads section to see if my ad made it up, I see this one from yesterday for a free "large" fish tank, stand and accessories. http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884795217.html Go get it! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 8:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE Yeah Lenny I do not know about that. I hate craigslist, you never know what your getting into. I would rather find smeone who has a real passion for fish and knows how to care for them. Bruce has already been SOLD once to some dumb kid and now he is back at the pet store. That is how Muttley's got him. He was brought to them in a bucket. The only I thing I use craigslist for is when I am looking for new tanks, and I always make the seller fill them with water while I am there. I just don't trust it!!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Make sure you post ads in the FREE section, in the For Sale section... and > in the Lost/Found Pets section in all of the Craigslist City sites for any > cities along your route. If you go to http://www.CraigsList.org, > < http://www.CraigsList.org, > you'll see > the list of individual States and Cities on the right. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP RESCUE BRUCE > > First off, Hello again. I once belonged to this group a while back. I have > several fish and used to have a lionfish "Hercules", whom was injured > somehow while I was at work and had to be put down. Today I found out that > "Bruce" a 4ft Moray Eel is in deperate need of rescuing. I thought about > this group and came here to see if I could find any resources. Bruce > currently resides in a small aquarium at my LFS (Grass Valley, CA).....too > small for him. He is free to a suitable home. I will be traveling from here > to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere > on my route. Pleae if anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me > soon. We have tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not > take him, so we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of > days. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com > > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 > 10:11:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 > 10:14:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 8:37:54 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 9:14:54 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31567	From: Chris	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies

I love little fishies they make me feel so good I love little fishies they make me feel so bad When theyre around they make me feel Like Im the only guy in town I love little fishies they make me feel so good They dont care if Im a one way mirror Theyre not frightened by my cold exterior They dont ask me questions They dont want to scold me They dont look for answers They just want to hold me Isnt this fun Isnt this what lifes all about Isnt this a dream come true Isnt this a nightmare too (repeat first verse) They dont care about my inclinations Theyre not frightened by my revelations Uh oh take a second take Uh oh its a mistake Uh oh Im in trouble Uh oh the little fish was just to little Too little, too little, too little Isnt this what lifes all about Isnt this a dream come true Isnt this a nightmare too . . . And I dont care what people say And I dont care what people think And I dont care how we look walking down the street

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31568	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies

Hmmm, a takeoff on the song Little Girls by Oingo Boingo, 1981, as I recall. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies I love little fishies they make me feel so good I love little fishies they make me feel so bad When theyre around they make me feel Like Im the only guy in town I love little fishies they make me feel so good They dont care if Im a one way mirror Theyre not frightened by my cold exterior They dont ask me questions They dont want to scold me They dont look for answers They just want to hold me Isnt this fun Isnt this what lifes all about Isnt this a dream come true Isnt this a nightmare too (repeat first verse) They dont care about my inclinations Theyre not frightened by my revelations Uh oh take a second take Uh oh its a mistake Uh oh Im in trouble Uh oh the little fish was just to little Too little, too little, too little Isnt this what lifes all about Isnt this a dream come true Isnt this a nightmare too . . . And I dont care what people say And I dont care what people think And I dont care how we look walking down the street

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31569	From: bill1433	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Who Said That?

Hi Everyone,   Need some help here--------------again!   Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.  I thought I saved the message------------------------NOT!   I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!  Could you please re-send that message?   I'll try to be more careful,   Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31570	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

Reposting this for Bill. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 12:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! Bill, When considering the Eclipse 12, I'm guessing you're considering this as a 3rd tank and not an alternative to the 40 gallon you're planning on. I'm saying this only as this Eclipse 12 holds only the capacity of its namesake -- 12 gallons (21"L x 11 1/2" W x 17 1/2" H), a bit of a decrease from the 40. While I realize that weight is part of your consideration in an acrylic tank, even with their propensity for scratching (my main objection to them), but aside from shipping expenses you could actually save $35 by buying an all glass tank if you could pick it up at their drop-off point. Glass Cages will be delivering tanks in Allentown, PA on November 9th. Their 40 gallon glass tank is priced at $81.00, so that's a good savings if you're within reach of that area. A 40 gallon glass tank is still easily manageable in weight for one "old" person to handle. They have 50 gallon (36" x 18" x 17") glass tanks for $92, but you might say that's too heavy for you. Agreed, the acrylic tank's material is a better insulator, but you'll still need a heater in it at any rate, even if it might remain near 78 o most of the time; you never know when the temps may dip. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > First on the tank, it's a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. > I'm thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank this wide). I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet. On the fish? As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55's or better. Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they are not too crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, and temperature. Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank mates for a commujnty tank setup. > > Acrylic? At this price most definitely! Scratches? Yes, I agree there too BUT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also it's greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value. Bill lives in PA. It's getting cold in PA, very cold soon. Now Bill lives for the cold. Bill's fish do not. I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish all doing well at 78 degree's with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. > > Now about those Abbreviations? You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on ol' bill. I am going nut's boogying back and fourth between Lenny's abbreviation page. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)? Thank god its there but I can't get these two: GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH stands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)---------and at my age, I'm not sure I had it in the first place! > > Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail. Working with all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came across one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have. It's called an Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing. As close as I can determine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are all in the hood! Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly? I have seen only pictures with nothing first hand. Perhaps a trip to Wally World? > > Thanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one more favor? Please don't anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two more months. Try looking at it this way: "If you folks can get me off the ground with this tank, you can kick back and say you've done it all! > > Thanks Again for everything, > > Bill > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31571	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies

I didn't recall either song but did a quick Google and found this http://www.lyricsfreak.com/o/oingo+boingo/little+girls_20102778.html Sounds like a pedophiles theme song! LOL And now, that reminds me of a joke... This man comes home from work one day and finds his girlfriend sitting on the front porch crying. He asks, "What's wrong baby?". She replies, "There's a rumor going around the neighborhood that you're a pedophile!". He replies, "PEDOPHILE!!! That's an awfully big word for a twelve year old!" LOL (I KNOW.. it's a sick and tasteless joke... but aren't they some of the best ones! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 2:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies Hmmm, a takeoff on the song Little Girls by Oingo Boingo, 1981, as I recall. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies I love little fishies they make me feel so good I love little fishies they make me feel so bad When theyre around they make me feel Like Im the only guy in town I love little fishies they make me feel so good They dont care if Im a one way mirror Theyre not frightened by my cold exterior They dont ask me questions They dont want to scold me They dont look for answers They just want to hold me Isnt this fun Isnt this what lifes all about Isnt this a dream come true Isnt this a nightmare too (repeat first verse) They dont care about my inclinations Theyre not frightened by my revelations Uh oh take a second take Uh oh its a mistake Uh oh Im in trouble Uh oh the little fish was just to little Too little, too little, too little Isnt this what lifes all about Isnt this a dream come true Isnt this a nightmare too . . . And I dont care what people say And I dont care what people think And I dont care how we look walking down the street ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 2:31:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 2:40:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31572	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages.com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ and search for the message. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Hi Everyone,   Need some help here--------------again!   Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.  I thought I saved the message------------------------NOT!   I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!  Could you please re-send that message?   I'll try to be more careful,   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31573	From: bill1433	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet!

Thanks Donna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I promise to take better care of this one!   It's already in my notes!   bill --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 3:39 PM Reposting this for Bill. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 12:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Too All Trying To Help Me Get Wet! Bill, When considering the Eclipse 12, I'm guessing you're considering this as a 3rd tank and not an alternative to the 40 gallon you're planning on. I'm saying this only as this Eclipse 12 holds only the capacity of its namesake -- 12 gallons (21"L x 11 1/2" W x 17 1/2" H), a bit of a decrease from the 40. While I realize that weight is part of your consideration in an acrylic tank, even with their propensity for scratching (my main objection to them), but aside from shipping expenses you could actually save $35 by buying an all glass tank if you could pick it up at their drop-off point. Glass Cages will be delivering tanks in Allentown, PA on November 9th. Their 40 gallon glass tank is priced at $81.00, so that's a good savings if you're within reach of that area. A 40 gallon glass tank is still easily manageable in weight for one "old" person to handle. They have 50 gallon (36" x 18" x 17") glass tanks for $92, but you might say that's too heavy for you. Agreed, the acrylic tank's material is a better insulator, but you'll still need a heater in it at any rate, even if it might remain near 78 o most of the time; you never know when the temps may dip. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > First on the tank, it's a 40-gallon from Glass Cages at 36x18x13 at $116. > I'm thinking a double barrel light (2 tubes inside of one fixture for a tank this wide). I still have heard nothing on that Internet Tank Deal as yet. On the fish? As near as I have read so far, SOME Africans like those 55's or better. Some from the other Lakes, will do ok in a bit smaller provided they are not too crowded with others and their parameters are met as to Hardness, Ph, and temperature. Of course all but a very, very few are considered good tank mates for a commujnty tank setup. > > Acrylic? At this price most definitely! Scratches? Yes, I agree there too BUT; I must consider this tanks weight MT (Bill is not a kid anymore) and also it's greatest feature of clarity plus its outstanding insulation value. Bill lives in PA. It's getting cold in PA, very cold soon. Now Bill lives for the cold. Bill's fish do not. I currently have a small 3-gallon hex with 5 fish all doing well at 78 degree's with no heater and one 15-watt incandescent bulb. > > Now about those Abbreviations? You folks have got to have a bit of mercy on ol' bill. I am going nut's boogying back and fourth between Lenny's abbreviation page. ( I'm still lost on what"cookie cutter setups" means)? Thank god its there but I can't get these two: GH and KH (Len, if you come back and say KH stands for Kilowatt Hours I may lose it!)-------- -and at my age, I'm not sure I had it in the first place! > > Now I hesitate to add this but my honesty with all of you must prevail. Working with all the sites that you good people were kind enough to provide I came across one other type tank very similar to this setup I now have. It's called an Eclipse 12 and the cost is reasonable save for one thing. As close as I can determine from the photos; this tanks inners (filter & light & bio-wheel) are all in the hood! Has anyone ever had one of these and if so, how do they fly? I have seen only pictures with nothing first hand. Perhaps a trip to Wally World? > > Thanks to every single one of you for all your support and advise. May I ask one more favor? Please don't anyone leave or go on vacation for at least two more months. Try looking at it this way: "If you folks can get me off the ground with this tank, you can kick back and say you've done it all! > > Thanks Again for everything, > > Bill > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail. <http://mail. yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31574	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Lenny, Your ad got flagged by the animal rights nutz. They flag anything and everything not to their liking! -Mike, hip deep in animal rights fascist California. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 7:31 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE Here's my ad on the Sacramento CraigsList Free Stuff section. I also see that you aren't far from Reno, LV so that may be another CL option. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: craigslist.org [mailto:noreply@...] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 9:09 AM To: nhsnola@... Subject: Your craigslist posting "Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel" Confirmation for Posting ID# 884958692 Your ad, titled "Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel," has been posted as follows: http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884958692.html (free stuff) <http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884958692.html> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 9:31:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31575	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Eclipse System Three

My wife was looking for a desktop aquarium for work and we have picked one of these, and a small heater up. I have put some eco-complete substrate and some low light plants from my existing aquariums into this little guy and have started it running. My question. How good is the filter once it's cycled? One thing I noticed was it had one of those floss/carbon filter cartridges. I was thinking of taking one of those cartridges apart and replacing the carbon with Eheim Ehfisubstrat out of one of my canisters. That would seem to do two things. Give a larger bed for a biofilter, and seed the biofilter on the new aquarium a kick start. Does this make since? Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31576	From: Jennie	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80,  TH is 0. I tested the ammonia  0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 9:52:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31577	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

If you read the result of your hydrometer correctly--remember, it needs to be corrected for temperature, you do not have a measurable quantity of salt in your tank. Your tetras and otto cats would prefer no salt added, while your mollies and platys would probably do better with a small amount of salt added. In other words, these are fish you probably do not want to mix. However, since you already have, they should do OK together. In the future, though, remember that mollies and platys are more suited to a harder more base water, while the ottos and neons are suited more for softer, more acid water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 4:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80,  TH is 0. I tested the ammonia  0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31578	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Yeah... I got an email saying it was flagged. You'd think the whacko's would want to help save something. Oh well.. it was up for several hours and at least four more people know about Bruce than before based on the emails that I got. LOL One of the emails did prompt me to look again and there is the Pets classified in the Community section that I missed so now the ad is posted at... http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pet/885543621.html I also saw a 10G tank set up with a crawfish for free in there. http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pet/885358102.html I guess that's a good place to check on other CraigsList for free fish stuff, besides the Free Stuff section under the For Sale section. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE Lenny, Your ad got flagged by the animal rights nutz. They flag anything and everything not to their liking! -Mike, hip deep in animal rights fascist California. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 7:31 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE Here's my ad on the Sacramento CraigsList Free Stuff section. I also see that you aren't far from Reno, LV so that may be another CL option. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: craigslist.org [mailto:noreply@... <mailto:noreply%40craigslist.org> ] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 9:09 AM To: nhsnola@... <mailto:nhsnola%40gmail.com> Subject: Your craigslist posting "Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel" Confirmation for Posting ID# 884958692 Your ad, titled "Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel," has been posted as follows: http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884958692.html <http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884958692.html> (free stuff) <http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884958692.html <http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884958692.html <http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884958692.html> > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 9:31:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 3:44:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 6:25:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31579	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Eclipse System Three

Yes, if your current tank is healthy, definitely put some of your filter media from your current tank into the filter of the new tank. Since you'll only be adding a small bioload anyhow (a 3G tank), it should be fully cycled from the start but test for ammonia/nitrite anyhow for the first few days to a week to be sure. Does the Eclipse 3 have the Bio-Wheel also? If so, that has plenty of surface area for the nitrifying bacteria and since it's a wet-dry filter, it's better for the nitrifying bacteria since they like lots of O2 but it's not something that's mandatory for most tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:14 PM To: Aquaria 2 Subject: [AquaticLife] Eclipse System Three My wife was looking for a desktop aquarium for work and we have picked one of these, and a small heater up. I have put some eco-complete substrate and some low light plants from my existing aquariums into this little guy and have started it running. My question. How good is the filter once it's cycled? One thing I noticed was it had one of those floss/carbon filter cartridges. I was thinking of taking one of those cartridges apart and replacing the carbon with Eheim Ehfisubstrat out of one of my canisters. That would seem to do two things. Give a larger bed for a biofilter, and seed the biofilter on the new aquarium a kick start. Does this make since? Dana Rasmussen Seattle ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 3:44:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 6:27:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31580	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

How much salt did you add? Livebearers do OK with a little salt and they prefer harder water. Sorry, I'm not experience with how to convert a hydrometer test result to teaspoons per gallon. I'm concerned about you not having a nitrate reading. If you have a better test kit, re-check the nitrates (NO3). You mention Hornwort but you don't say the tank is heavily planted so it would be unusual to not have some level of nitrates in a lightly planted tank. Do you have a better test kit, other than the dip strips? If no, and if you've been reading out here, WalMart sells two different brands for around $15.00 and they'll last you around a year of weekly or more testing so definitely get a master test kit instead of the dip strips when you run out. How is the water comparing to your tap water baseline? I remember your post about moving the Betta into your tank and you though the Dalmation Molly had a crush on him. Looks more like she wanted to CRUSH him. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 9:52:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com <http://mail.yahoo.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 3:55:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 6:38:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31581	From: bill1433	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Steve, � I didn't look enough about the great mystery????� What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information!� Turns out there was no mystery at all.� I just didn�t look far enough into the web site.� This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. � If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information..� I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn�t look like that will happen.� That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point.� First order of business though is a Water Testing Kit. � Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.� The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.� With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. � Thanks again for the response, � Bill � --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Hi Everyone, � Need some help here-------- ------again! � Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.� I thought I saved the message----- --------- --------- -NOT! � I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!� Could you please re-send that message? � I'll try to be more careful, � Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31582	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

To heck with fish... you need a big ole' bear cage! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Steve, I didn't look enough about the great mystery???? What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information! Turns out there was no mystery at all. I just didn’t look far enough into the web site. This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information.. I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn’t look like that will happen. That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point. First order of business though is a Water Testing Kit. Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest. The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night. With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. Thanks again for the response, Bill --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Hi Everyone, Need some help here-------- ------again! Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA. I thought I saved the message----- --------- --------- -NOT! I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it! Could you please re-send that message? I'll try to be more careful, Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 6:58:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 7:13:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31583	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Thanks For All Of The Suggestions About Bruce

I have my work cut out for me, but it is well worth it. I have a bit more information about Bruce and I am emailing pics from my site to this one so you all will be able to see him. He is gorgeous. I wish I had a home for him, I would take him in a heartbeat. This is the post that is going out to all of the Northern California Aquarist Clubs that I can find. Feel free to take it and pass it on along with Bruce's picture. I know Lenny that you mean well, but I am avoiding the ads and such, I just do not trust them. AND as you found out people do not take this sort of thing serious when it is in an ad. Hi there, I was hoping that you could assist me. I live up in Grass Valley, CA and the local LFS has an eel that needs a new home. I have been posting everywhere that I can think of: HELP RESCUE BRUCE "Bruce" a 4ft Green Moray Eel is in deperate need of rescuing. Bruce currently resides in a small aquarium at my LFS (Grass Valley, CA 530- 274-9996).....too small for him. He is free to a suitable home (200+ gallon tank). I will be traveling from here to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere on my route. Please if anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me soon or call Marissa at the LFS. We have tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not take him, so we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of days. ------------------------------------------------------------------- What we know about him is that he has been in one LFS or another for over 5yrs and he was owned prior to that for around 4 or 5 yrs. He is super mellow and gentle. I have some awesome pictures of him if you would like them. I do not see here where I can attach them for you. Thank you, Mrs. Howell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Another reply from my new Craigslist Sacramento ad in the Pets section instead of the Free Stuff section: try some of the larger colleges with good biology depts- even some of the better community colleges may be interested _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 8:50:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31585	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Passed on the info to Marissa about Capitol Aquarium. I did not even think about them. I have been there, it is an awesome place. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > A couple more replies. > > 1) i have a good idea take him and set him free in ft. bragg? salt water > duh biggest tank in the world and he'll find a mate maybe :-)he'll know > what to do as soon as he hits the water he'd be happier Sandy and Mike > > 2) you should try capitol aquarium in Sacramento > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 > Tested on: 10/19/2008 10:55:11 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31586	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks For All Of The Suggestions About Bruce

I realize you didn't want to deal with Craigslist which is why I did. Even if you don't find a taker, at least I'm getting some real and conscientious replies that might lead to a taker.... like the Capital Aquarium place. Sometimes you have to think outside the box. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 8:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thanks For All Of The Suggestions About Bruce I have my work cut out for me, but it is well worth it. I have a bit more information about Bruce and I am emailing pics from my site to this one so you all will be able to see him. He is gorgeous. I wish I had a home for him, I would take him in a heartbeat. This is the post that is going out to all of the Northern California Aquarist Clubs that I can find. Feel free to take it and pass it on along with Bruce's picture. I know Lenny that you mean well, but I am avoiding the ads and such, I just do not trust them. AND as you found out people do not take this sort of thing serious when it is in an ad. Hi there, I was hoping that you could assist me. I live up in Grass Valley, CA and the local LFS has an eel that needs a new home. I have been posting everywhere that I can think of: HELP RESCUE BRUCE "Bruce" a 4ft Green Moray Eel is in deperate need of rescuing. Bruce currently resides in a small aquarium at my LFS (Grass Valley, CA 530- 274-9996).....too small for him. He is free to a suitable home (200+ gallon tank). I will be traveling from here to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of Nov. I can offer transportation to anywhere on my route. Please if anyone knows of a suitable home for him get back to me soon or call Marissa at the LFS. We have tried aquariums and as you all probably know they will not take him, so we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next couple of days. ---------------------------------------------------------- What we know about him is that he has been in one LFS or another for over 5yrs and he was owned prior to that for around 4 or 5 yrs. He is super mellow and gentle. I have some awesome pictures of him if you would like them. I do not see here where I can attach them for you. Thank you, Mrs. Howell _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 8:56:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31587	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Yes we have to keep our garbage inside almost until we see the garbage man coming down the road! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 8:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To heck with fish... you need a big ole' bear cage! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Steve, I didn't look enough about the great mystery???? What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information! Turns out there was no mystery at all. I just didn’t look far enough into the web site. This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information.. I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn’t look like that will happen. That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point. First order of business though is a Water Testing Kit. Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest. The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night. With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. Thanks again for the response, Bill --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Hi Everyone, Need some help here-------- ------again! Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA. I thought I saved the message----- --------- --------- -NOT! I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it! Could you please re-send that message? I'll try to be more careful, Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 6:58:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 7:13:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31588	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Yeah I belong to this group and posted there too. I am looking into waterwolves now thanks. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dreamsteeds <Dreamsteeds@...> wrote: > > > > Here are a couple of other places you might look for a potential home for Bruce: > > > > http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/   ( these guys LOVE the big 'uns and there are a lot of members in CA) > > > > Waterwolves.com  (same deal) > > > > We've sold some of our giant driftwood here.  These folks have seriously large tanks! > > > > Hope this will help, Jackie. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 7:14:58 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE > > > > > > > Well, you should get the word out to as many sources as possible, IMO. It > may take someone who knows someone who knows someone... to solve your issue. > > I have a "real passion" for fish and know how to take care of them but I do > not and never have been actively involved in any fish societies. > Technically, I've never been a member of one except for the free membership > I have in SELAS (SouthEast Louisiana Aquarium Society) which started up in > the past couple of years down here. The overwhelming majority of people do > not belong to any kind of fish society. And there are thousands of online > fish forums so just trying to post in them will be a daunting task. > > Putting a half-dozen free ads in Craigslist might just help recruit others > who will post in their favorite forums if you put that in your ad also. You > might also contact your local media outlets to get the word out. I know > they do it for kittens and puppies down here all the time. > > Now posting in groups like this is good but I still think you should get the > word out to as many as possible. You never know when you might come across > a restaurant, business, aquarium maintenance service (you may want to > contact them directly also), etc., that has a large enough tank or is > putting in a large tank but just wasn't really looking around here or other > fish forums but might have browsed through CraigsList looking for something > else and comes across one of your ads using the search feature... if you put > enough key words in your ad. > > You can still properly vet the prospective adaptor to make sure they are > adequately supplied and skilled. > > Out of curiosity, I just did a Google search for - moray eel adoption - and > guess what... the top hit came up as a Craigslist ad out of Las Vegas. You > might want to duplicate that search and you'll see. That's another thing > about Craigslist... they do get top hits on Google searches so your ad there > may find the right adaptor who is looking to adopt a moray eel for their > large new tank. I know if I was ever going with a new pond or really large > tank, I'd look around for FREE BIG fish that others are giving away due to > having undersized tanks/ponds. It would save me money and save some fish at > the same time. > > I just did a Google Maps search on your location and travel plans and see > you are in the Sacramento area so I just now posted an ad on Craigslist > using your original notice out here as a template and I'll let you know > if/when I get any hits. > > One last note... while checking the "Free Stuff" ads section to see if my ad > made it up, I see this one from yesterday for a free "large" fish tank, > stand and accessories. http://sacramento.craigslist.org/zip/884795217.html > Go get it! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 8:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE > > Yeah Lenny I do not know about that. I hate craigslist, you never know what > your getting into. I would rather find smeone who has a real passion for > fish and knows how to care for them. Bruce has already been SOLD once to > some dumb kid and now he is back at the pet store. That is how Muttley's got > him. He was brought to them in a bucket. The only I thing I use craigslist > for is when I am looking for new tanks, and I always make the seller fill > them with water while I am there. I just don't trust it!!! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Make sure you post ads in the FREE section, in the For Sale > section... and > > in the Lost/Found Pets section in all of the Craigslist City sites > for any > > cities along your route. If you go to http://www.CraigsList.org, > > < http://www.CraigsList.org, > > you'll see > > the list of individual States and Cities on the right. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 10:06 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP RESCUE BRUCE > > > > First off, Hello again. I once belonged to this group a while back. > I have > > several fish and used to have a lionfish "Hercules", whom was > injured > > somehow while I was at work and had to be put down. Today I found > out that > > "Bruce" a 4ft Moray Eel is in deperate need of rescuing. I thought > about > > this group and came here to see if I could find any resources. Bruce > > currently resides in a small aquarium at my LFS (Grass Valley, > CA).....too > > small for him. He is free to a suitable home. I will be traveling > from here > > to Fort Bragg, CA on the 11th of Nov. I can offer transportation to > anywhere > > on my route. Pleae if anyone knows of a suitable home for him get > back to me > > soon. We have tried aquariums and as you all probably know they > will not > > take him, so we are at a dead end. I can get pics in the next > couple of > > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com > < http://www.avast.com > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 > > 10:11:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com > < http://www.avast.com > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 > > 10:14:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 > Tested on: 10/19/2008 8:37:54 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 > Tested on: 10/19/2008 9:14:54 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31589	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

LMAO!! How long will this one last Lenny? I can try UC DAVIS, but wont they do bad stuff to him? Like experiments? I think he would ratehr live in a tiny aquarium over being shocked, probed and proded at. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Another reply from my new Craigslist Sacramento ad in the Pets section > instead of the Free Stuff section: > > > try some of the larger colleges with good biology depts- even some of the > better community colleges may be interested > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 > Tested on: 10/19/2008 8:50:38 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31590	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Before Fish my hobby used to be tracking Bears. Lights will not bother a Black Bear. Any kind of Noise will. I have spent many evenings within 6 Feet of Black Bear. I Hunted, but with a Camera. John in Nevada --- On Sun, 10/19/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:39 PM Steve, � I didn't look enough about the great mystery????� What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information!� Turns out there was no mystery at all.� I just didn�t look far enough into the web site.� This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. � If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information..� I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn�t look like that will happen.� That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point.� First order of business though is a Water Testing Kit. � Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.� The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.� With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. � Thanks again for the response, � Bill � --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Hi Everyone, � Need some help here-------- ------again! � Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.� I thought I saved the message----- --------- --------- -NOT! � I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!� Could you please re-send that message? � I'll try to be more careful, � Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31591	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Pics of Bruce

As soon as they get approved I put up pics in the HELP RESCUE BRUCE photo album.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31592	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies

yup. they also did the theme for weird science ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:26:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies Hmmm, a takeoff on the song Little Girls by Oingo Boingo, 1981, as I recall. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oingo Boingo - Little Fishies I love little fishies they make me feel so good I love little fishies they make me feel so bad When theyre around they make me feel Like Im the only guy in town I love little fishies they make me feel so good They dont care if Im a one way mirror Theyre not frightened by my cold exterior They dont ask me questions They dont want to scold me They dont look for answers They just want to hold me Isnt this fun Isnt this what lifes all about Isnt this a dream come true Isnt this a nightmare too (repeat first verse) They dont care about my inclinations Theyre not frightened by my revelations Uh oh take a second take Uh oh its a mistake Uh oh Im in trouble Uh oh the little fish was just to little Too little, too little, too little Isnt this what lifes all about Isnt this a dream come true Isnt this a nightmare too . . . And I dont care what people say And I dont care what people think And I dont care how we look walking down the street __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31593	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Not necessarily, our biology department houses a couple eels in a display tank in the hallway. They also have some iguanas and fish. They are used as educational tools and to make the department prettier. :) I'm sure you could make the stipulation that he only be used in this way. -----Original Message----- From: devillookslikeanangel <porcupinepufferfish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:56 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE LMAO!! How long will this one last Lenny? I can try UC DAVIS, but wont they do bad stuff to him? Like experiments? I think he would ratehr live in a tiny aquarium over being shocked, probed and proded at. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Another reply from my new Craigslist Sacramento ad in the Pets section > instead of the Free Stuff section: > > > try some of the larger colleges with good biology depts- even some of the > better community colleges may be interested > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 > Tested on: 10/19/2008 8:50:38 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.8><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31594	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Yeah I know. I emailed them and asked if they had an aquatics program and if they would be interested in adopting Bruce. I am waiting for a reply. Prob get something tomorrow. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, flohk13@... wrote: > > > Not necessarily, our biology department houses a couple eels in a display tank in the hallway. They also have some iguanas and fish. They are used as educational tools and to make the department prettier. :) I'm sure you could make the stipulation that he only be used in this way. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: devillookslikeanangel <porcupinepufferfish@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:56 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE > > > > > > > > > > > LMAO!! How long will this one last Lenny? I can try UC DAVIS, but > wont they do bad stuff to him? Like experiments? I think he would > ratehr live in a tiny aquarium over being shocked, probed and proded > at. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Another reply from my new Craigslist Sacramento ad in the Pets > section > > instead of the Free Stuff section: > > > > > > try some of the larger colleges with good biology depts- even some > of the > > better community colleges may be interested > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 > > Tested on: 10/19/2008 8:50:38 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.8><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º ((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31595	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: SHARK!

There is a shark here in our uncle henry's that I thought ya'll would like > to know about. I am sure I can find out more if anyone is ummm interested.. > I guess its in a 200 gal. and its out grown its tank.. ya its salt water.. > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31596	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Cichlids

Okay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31597	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Hi Sarah, There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public. Like most fish they will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled? I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat. Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood. -Mike Okay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah ---Original Message----- From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Cichlids Okay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not co mmunity fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31598	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled. sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public. Like most fish they will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah---Original Message-----From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@...>To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31599	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Another suggestion from the Craigslist ad... Try Phil's Fish Market in Moss Landing. He has a very large Salt Water tank. Ask for Phil. It's worth a shot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 11:38:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31600	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE

Well it looks like the "Community - Pets" section IS the correct place to post an ad like this on CraigsList. I had originally posted in the Free Stuff section since it gets a lot more traffic, IMO, but from looking at the rules for the Community - Pets section and all the other ads, it does not violate any TOS. I keep getting more replies and forward them to here as I do. This also keeps the thread active at the top of the Messages Page online here so it has a better chance of getting picked up by Google, etc. and non-members have a better chance of seeing it as well. Kind of like "bumping" a thread in a website forum to keep it on page one of the threads.... not that I've ever done that. LOL In one forum, many years ago, that did not have sticky sections and no moderators, we would regularly bump 3-4 threads to the top so newbie's would see them first. Of course we would be creative with our bumps. Instead of just typing "Bump" and posting. I might do something like "Don't bump no more with that big fat woman!" or "Baby got bump!" or something like that to at least keep the bumps from being too mundane. LOL As far as the "shocked, probed and prodded", I think you might be in the wrong forum for that kind of talk! I think you wanted MasochoticLife, not AquaticLife. LOL OK.. I can tell it's getting late now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP RESCUE BRUCE LMAO!! How long will this one last Lenny? I can try UC DAVIS, but wont they do bad stuff to him? Like experiments? I think he would ratehr live in a tiny aquarium over being shocked, probed and proded at. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Another reply from my new Craigslist Sacramento ad in the Pets section > instead of the Free Stuff section: > > > try some of the larger colleges with good biology depts- even some of the > better community colleges may be interested > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 11:50:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Pics of Bruce

They've been approved, I've snagged copies and updated my Craigslist ad with them. http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pet/885543621.html I also just sent a message to a guy/gal with this ad for a Fish Tank Setup Service at http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pet/885853740.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pics of Bruce As soon as they get approved I put up pics in the HELP RESCUE BRUCE photo album. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 11:57:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

It depends on what kind of Cichlids. Some are hard water high pH, others are soft water, low pH and others are everywhere in between. You've been seeing us discussing the African Cichlids with Bill since he thinks he has liquid rock type water. Can you get pictures? Does your friend of a friend know their water parameters? Do they live nearby you on the same water source? If they've been living in soft water with low pH, they may not make the acclimation to hard water with high pH and even if you were going to try, you should do a drip acclimation process to give them several hours to very slowly acclimate to your water. You really need to know what they are and what kind of water they've been raised in. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 11:13 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cichlids Okay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me [ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 12:04:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31603	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Ahhhh Bear country, No petting the bear, we need you back here for fish talk. -Mike Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.  The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.  With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay.   Thanks again for the response,   Bill   -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 4:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Steve,   I didn't look enough about the great mystery????  What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information!  Turns out there was no mystery at all.  I just didn’t look far enough into the web site.  This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them.   If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information..  I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn’t look like that will happen.  That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point.  First order of business though is a Water T esting Kit.   Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.  The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.  With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay.   Thanks again for the response,   Bill   --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said Tha t? Hi Everyone,   Need some help here-------- ------again!   Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.  I thought I saved the message----- --------- --------- -NOT!   I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!  Could you please re-send that message?   I'll try to be more careful,   Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31604	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Bill, Great mystery? (LOL). Sorry for appearing to be so mysterious, really didn't mean to. I just figured if you were at all interested in getting a tank from Glass Cages, that delivery schedule I passed on to you may have prompted you to get back in touch with them with an order if you hadn't know about their drop off point in Allentown previously. I had only assumed you were already in touch (via their web page) with them, having come up with the $116(?) price for the acrylic, and if you hadn't gone to their web site you would have inquired back of me for further information. Wasn't trying to keep this all a secret, really <G R I N> (BIG Grin). No mysteries here, we're all straight-forward in trying to help. I hadn't noticed another delivery date to Allentown at anytime shortly after that (Nov. 9), so this might be your chance for a while, but I can sure understand about the needs to address your present priority . From what's been posted further though, it looks like a motion-detector -- noise-maker type of device might be a better dissuader for this black bear. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Steve, >   > I didn't look enough about the great mystery????  What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information!  Turns out there was no mystery at all.  I just didn't look far enough into the web site.  This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. >   > If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information..  I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn't look like that will happen.  That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point.  First order of business though is a Water Testing Kit. >   > Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.  The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.  With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. >   > Thanks again for the response, >   > Bill >   > > --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. > > Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. > > If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? > > Hi Everyone, >   > Need some help here-------- ------again! >   > Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.  I thought I saved the message- ---- --------- --------- -NOT! >   > I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!  Could you please re-send that message? >   > I'll try to be more careful, >   > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31605	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote: > > > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled. > sarah > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > To: AquaticLife@...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 - 0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids > > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public. Like most fish they will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah---Original Message---- -From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@...>To: aquaticlife@...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31606	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

You know... I just thought of something. Considering the few times that Bill has mentioned his size, I'm wondering if it wasn't Bill sneaking out the leftover trash from a midnight raid on the fridge and the neighbors just thought it was a 350 pound bear. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 12:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Ahhhh Bear country, No petting the bear, we need you back here for fish talk. -Mike Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest. The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night. With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. Thanks again for the response, Bill -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 4:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Steve, I didn't look enough about the great mystery???? What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information! Turns out there was no mystery at all. I just didn’t look far enough into the web site. This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information.. I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn’t look like that will happen. That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point. First order of business though is a Water T esting Kit. Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest. The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night. With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. Thanks again for the response, Bill --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said Tha t? Hi Everyone, Need some help here-------- ------again! Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA. I thought I saved the message----- --------- --------- -NOT! I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it! Could you please re-send that message? I'll try to be more careful, Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com <http://mail.yahoo.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 1:06:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 1:10:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31607	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

On moving mom & fry?� You already mentioned filter media BUT to be on the safe side I would also ask your friend for as much water as she can possibly share from her community tank.� Drain your tank down first to accommodate as much water as she can spare for you.� Float or drip (an air line siphon) to mix the waters very slowly and also take the temperature of the new tank up just a few degrees to around 78 or even 80 if that�s what your friend had.� Just go a degree or so above her settings for a bit, 7 to 10 days at least and then go back, slowly to the temp that she had in her tank. � Cichlids for the most part will begin eating quickly at these temp ranges.� The driftwood and rocks will offer plenty of hiding for the fry just watch that MOM doesn�t get up for any TV snacks late and night when lights are out, or better yet don�t turn them out until fry are above snack size..� Would you please offer a post or two to let us know how things are going? � Billon, 10/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cichlids To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:04 AM It depends on what kind of Cichlids. Some are hard water high pH, others are soft water, low pH and others are everywhere in between. You've been seeing us discussing the African Cichlids with Bill since he thinks he has liquid rock type water. Can you get pictures? Does your friend of a friend know their water parameters? Do they live nearby you on the same water source? If they've been living in soft water with low pH, they may not make the acclimation to hard water with high pH and even if you were going to try, you should do a drip acclimation process to give them several hours to very slowly acclimate to your water. You really need to know what they are and what kind of water they've been raised in. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 11:13 PM To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cichlids Okay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me [ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 12:04:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31608	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Well, I know she had no clue what type they are. She did say there were yellow and about the size of a baseball. If that helps any. Also, she does live close but she is on well water. I know her fish have always been on this. She is also an old timer as far as fish keeping goes. She does not test her water. I will acclimate very slowly. It will also be interesting to find out how old the babies are. She didnt know that either.Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:04:34 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cichlids It depends on what kind of Cichlids. Some are hard water high pH, othersare soft water, low pH and others are everywhere in between. You've beenseeing us discussing the African Cichlids with Bill since he thinks he hasliquid rock type water. Can you get pictures? Does your friend of a friendknow their water parameters? Do they live nearby you on the same watersource? If they've been living in soft water with low pH, they may not makethe acclimation to hard water with high pH and even if you were going totry, you should do a drip acclimation process to give them several hours tovery slowly acclimate to your water. You really need to know what they areand what kind of water they've been raised in.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 11:13 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friendhas these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they werenot community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know whatkind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'mgoing to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quicktips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do nothave live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks.Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great,I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah "Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008Tested on: 10/20/2008 12:04:34 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31609	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

We love animals here in spite of our small home we have some with us but bears although fun to watch, are real foolers.� Many people miss judge their seemingly playful nature and a few idiots actually try to make pets of them.� That�s where the problems come in, human intervention.� They are here because they are hungry!� Period. � They are not here to make new friends, pose for pictures or do funny things to bird feeders, they�re here to eat. � Bill�s rules for dealing with this type and size of animal are simple.� DO NOT DO ANYTHING!� Leave them alone and remove the food source and never trust anything bigger than yourself!� � People around here always make that same mistake every year.� How could something that large possibly be that fast.� I�ll just take a few pictures and jump back in my car. NOT!� Bears, especially black ones and black ones of the female persuasion with her cubs, ARE faster than humans and every year we get some poor animal destroyed needless because some idiot has to prove that to himself and serious injuries occur. � moving carefully����..and thanks for your concern! � Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:45 AM Ahhhh Bear country, No petting the bear, we need you back here for fish talk. -Mike Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.�� The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.�� With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. �� Thanks again for the response, �� Bill �� -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 4:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Steve, �� I didn't look enough about the great mystery????�� What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information!�� Turns out there was no mystery at all.�� I just didn���t look far enough into the web site.�� This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. �� If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information.. .�� I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn���t look like that will happen.�� That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point.�� First order of business though is a Water T esting Kit. �� Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.�� The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.�� With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. �� Thanks again for the response, �� Bill �� --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said Tha t? Hi Everyone, �� Need some help here-------- ------again! �� Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.�� I thought I saved the message----- --------- --------- -NOT! �� I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!�� Could you please re-send that message? �� I'll try to be more careful, �� Bill ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> ��.������`��.��. , .������`��..><((((��> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. , .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31610	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Well, she has a 100 gallon tank that is now overpopulated due to these cichlids. I am putting them into a 35 gallon with no other fish. I figure the filter cartridge will have plenty to cover my bioload. :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: sevenspringss@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, Ray--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote:>> > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled.> sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids> > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public. Like most fish they will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah---Original Message-----From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@...>To: aquaticlife@...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31611	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Good Morning Ray, � The problems were not with your posting but my lack on looking further at the sites header for more information.� On the next visit I found everything you mentioned including a phone number for contact.� My problem is money right now.� We have quite a few things in the fire including a water leak (another opportunity to help a plumber�s son through dental school) and some slight kitchen remodeling that�s currently up in the air.� The ceiling and floor replacement. � Bears are strange animals but consider this, on the loud noises?� What if people light firecrackers?� Shoot their guns in the air?� Yell at them?� That doesn�t really work around here, the bears are use to all of this and USUALLY ignore them BUT some times they will charge.� Your best bet if anything is to just let them see you and they almost always go the other direction----------------------------------if they don�t, you do! � BUT ever, ever run from them or turn your back on them.� Always move slowly away facing them if you can.� If you can�t then of course do run but pray your near shelter or you�ve had it. � Bill � --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:46 AM Bill, Great mystery? (LOL). Sorry for appearing to be so mysterious, really didn't mean to. I just figured if you were at all interested in getting a tank from Glass Cages, that delivery schedule I passed on to you may have prompted you to get back in touch with them with an order if you hadn't know about their drop off point in Allentown previously. I had only assumed you were already in touch (via their web page) with them, having come up with the $116(?) price for the acrylic, and if you hadn't gone to their web site you would have inquired back of me for further information. Wasn't trying to keep this all a secret, really <G R I N> (BIG Grin). No mysteries here, we're all straight-forward in trying to help. I hadn't noticed another delivery date to Allentown at anytime shortly after that (Nov. 9), so this might be your chance for a while, but I can sure understand about the needs to address your present priority . From what's been posted further though, it looks like a motion-detector -- noise-maker type of device might be a better dissuader for this black bear. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Steve, > � > I didn't look enough about the great mystery????� What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information!� Turns out there was no mystery at all.� I just didn't look far enough into the web site.� This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. > � > If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information. .� I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn't look like that will happen.� That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point.� First order of business though is a Water Testing Kit. > � > Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.� The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.� With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. > � > Thanks again for the response, > � > Bill > � > > --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. > > Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. > > If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? > > Hi Everyone, > � > Need some help here-------- ------again! > � > Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.� I thought I saved the message- ---- --------- --------- -NOT! > � > I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!� Could you please re-send that message? > � > I'll try to be more careful, > � > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail. yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31612	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

As long as she gives you an equal percentage of her filter media as she is fish, you should be in pretty good shape. Just test the water for ammonia/nitrites daily and be prepared to do PWC's as needed. I wish you would have been doing a fishless cycle all this time and then you would have built up a healthy colony of nitrifying bacteria in your own filters. That 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia would have gone a long way at saving you a lot of possible PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 8:38 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Well, she has a 100 gallon tank that is now overpopulated due to these cichlids. I am putting them into a 35 gallon with no other fish. I figure the filter cartridge will have plenty to cover my bioload. :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.comDate> : Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, Ray--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote:>> > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled.> sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids> > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public. Like most fish they will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah---Original Message-----From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@...>To: aquaticlife@...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 9:19:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31613	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Bill � Please don't mis-understand what I posted earliar. I was not making light of your situation or trying to get you anywhere neat the bears. � I used to have a Summer Home in Pike County and spent years studying the bear population in Penn. The Game Warden assigned to bears was a man named Gary Ault and we were friends. I used to track bears as a hobby and spent 100's of hours photographing and studying them. � I never tried to make them pets and I have high regard for them and what they can do. � My theory is that they were here before us and we invaded their home and how would we react if anyone invaded our home. � John in Nevada --- On Mon, 10/20/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 6:28 AM We love animals here in spite of our small home we have some with us but bears although fun to watch, are real foolers.� Many people miss judge their seemingly playful nature and a few idiots actually try to make pets of them.� That�s where the problems come in, human intervention.� They are here because they are hungry!� Period. � They are not here to make new friends, pose for pictures or do funny things to bird feeders, they�re here to eat. � Bill�s rules for dealing with this type and size of animal are simple.� DO NOT DO ANYTHING!� Leave them alone and remove the food source and never trust anything bigger than yourself!� � People around here always make that same mistake every year.� How could something that large possibly be that fast.� I�ll just take a few pictures and jump back in my car. NOT!� Bears, especially black ones and black ones of the female persuasion with her cubs, ARE faster than humans and every year we get some poor animal destroyed needless because some idiot has to prove that to himself and serious injuries occur. � moving carefully����..and thanks for your concern! � Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:45 AM Ahhhh Bear country, No petting the bear, we need you back here for fish talk. -Mike Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.�� The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.�� With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. �� Thanks again for the response, �� Bill �� -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 4:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Steve, �� I didn't look enough about the great mystery????�� What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information!�� Turns out there was no mystery at all.�� I just didn���t look far enough into the web site.�� This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. �� If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information.. .�� I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn���t look like that will happen.�� That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point.�� First order of business though is a Water T esting Kit. �� Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.�� The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.�� With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. �� Thanks again for the response, �� Bill �� --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said Tha t? Hi Everyone, �� Need some help here-------- ------again! �� Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.�� I thought I saved the message----- --------- --------- -NOT! �� I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!�� Could you please re-send that message? �� I'll try to be more careful, �� Bill ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> ��.������`��.��. , .������`��..><((((��> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. , .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31614	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Unless things and Bears have changed drasticly if you clap your hands they will run. About�30 years ago in Pike County I had a bear that was coming around too often as I had a young baby daughter at the time and I was concerned that she may start to play with him. Well I chased him into the woods by taking a shovel and banging on the trunk of trees, The noise I made as well the trees shaking he took off and I ran him into the about a thousand feet into the woods. � By the way it was later determined he was the largest bear in Pike County. He got hit by a truck on Route 6 and weighed just under 500lbs. � John in Nevada --- On Mon, 10/20/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 6:42 AM Good Morning Ray, � The problems were not with your posting but my lack on looking further at the sites header for more information.� On the next visit I found everything you mentioned including a phone number for contact.� My problem is money right now.� We have quite a few things in the fire including a water leak (another opportunity to help a plumber�s son through dental school) and some slight kitchen remodeling that�s currently up in the air.� The ceiling and floor replacement. � Bears are strange animals but consider this, on the loud noises?� What if people light firecrackers?� Shoot their guns in the air?� Yell at them?� That doesn�t really work around here, the bears are use to all of this and USUALLY ignore them BUT some times they will charge.� Your best bet if anything is to just let them see you and they almost always go the other direction----------------------------------if they don�t, you do! � BUT ever, ever run from them or turn your back on them.� Always move slowly away facing them if you can.� If you can�t then of course do run but pray your near shelter or you�ve had it. � Bill � --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:46 AM Bill, Great mystery? (LOL). Sorry for appearing to be so mysterious, really didn't mean to. I just figured if you were at all interested in getting a tank from Glass Cages, that delivery schedule I passed on to you may have prompted you to get back in touch with them with an order if you hadn't know about their drop off point in Allentown previously. I had only assumed you were already in touch (via their web page) with them, having come up with the $116(?) price for the acrylic, and if you hadn't gone to their web site you would have inquired back of me for further information. Wasn't trying to keep this all a secret, really <G R I N> (BIG Grin). No mysteries here, we're all straight-forward in trying to help. I hadn't noticed another delivery date to Allentown at anytime shortly after that (Nov. 9), so this might be your chance for a while, but I can sure understand about the needs to address your present priority . From what's been posted further though, it looks like a motion-detector -- noise-maker type of device might be a better dissuader for this black bear. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Steve, > � > I didn't look enough about the great mystery????� What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information!� Turns out there was no mystery at all.� I just didn't look far enough into the web site.� This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. > � > If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information. .� I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn't look like that will happen.� That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point.� First order of business though is a Water Testing Kit. > � > Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.� The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.� With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. > � > Thanks again for the response, > � > Bill > � > > --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. > > Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. > > If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? > > Hi Everyone, > � > Need some help here-------- ------again! > � > Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.� I thought I saved the message- ---- --------- --------- -NOT! > � > I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!� Could you please re-send that message? > � > I'll try to be more careful, > � > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail. yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31615	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Good Morning John, � No, I understood your mail.� I�m not that thin skinned.� I am not afraid of bears either but I do have great respect for them and even greater respect for their power.� We have many visits but usually they stary very far up in the tree line so my camera with a zoom lens is the best way to observe them. � I�m not much into hunting and gave all of my gear away after I returned from Viet Nam many years ago.� But we really do love animals all kinds.� It�s just the contempt I, as I�m sure do also, have for people that do not give them the proper respect and kindness that they deserve.� It�s that �They�re just animals� mind set that gets me.� They seem to forget that they (we) would not be here at all save for animals providing us food.� I imagine you enjoyed the time you spent in Pike county its very beautiful this time of year. � Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 10:12 AM Bill � Please don't mis-understand what I posted earliar. I was not making light of your situation or trying to get you anywhere neat the bears. � I used to have a Summer Home in Pike County and spent years studying the bear population in Penn. The Game Warden assigned to bears was a man named Gary Ault and we were friends. I used to track bears as a hobby and spent 100's of hours photographing and studying them. � I never tried to make them pets and I have high regard for them and what they can do. � My theory is that they were here before us and we invaded their home and how would we react if anyone invaded our home. � John in Nevada --- On Mon, 10/20/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 6:28 AM We love animals here in spite of our small home we have some with us but bears although fun to watch, are real foolers.� Many people miss judge their seemingly playful nature and a few idiots actually try to make pets of them..� That�s where the problems come in, human intervention.� They are here because they are hungry!� Period. � They are not here to make new friends, pose for pictures or do funny things to bird feeders, they�re here to eat. � Bill�s rules for dealing with this type and size of animal are simple.� DO NOT DO ANYTHING!� Leave them alone and remove the food source and never trust anything bigger than yourself!� � People around here always make that same mistake every year.� How could something that large possibly be that fast.� I�ll just take a few pictures and jump back in my car. NOT!� Bears, especially black ones and black ones of the female persuasion with her cubs, ARE faster than humans and every year we get some poor animal destroyed needless because some idiot has to prove that to himself and serious injuries occur. � moving carefully����..and thanks for your concern! � Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:45 AM Ahhhh Bear country, No petting the bear, we need you back here for fish talk. -Mike Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.�� The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.�� With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. �� Thanks again for the response, �� Bill �� -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 4:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Steve, �� I didn't look enough about the great mystery????�� What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information!�� Turns out there was no mystery at all.�� I just didn���t look far enough into the web site.�� This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. �� If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information... ..�� I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn���t look like that will happen.�� That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point.�� First order of business though is a Water T esting Kit. �� Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest.�� The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night.�� With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. �� Thanks again for the response, �� Bill �� --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said Tha t? Hi Everyone, �� Need some help here-------- ------again! �� Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA.�� I thought I saved the message----- --------- --------- -NOT! �� I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it!�� Could you please re-send that message? �� I'll try to be more careful, �� Bill ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> ��.������`��.��. , .������`��..><((((��> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. , .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31616	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Who Said That?

Sorry, you�re short here by 100 pounds.� The bear is 350 and ol� bill is 250. Gimme a break here!� I haven�t seen my belt buckle since 1973! � Thanks for the kind thoughts Lenny! � Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:10 AM You know... I just thought of something. Considering the few times that Bill has mentioned his size, I'm wondering if it wasn't Bill sneaking out the leftover trash from a midnight raid on the fridge and the neighbors just thought it was a 350 pound bear. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. com Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 12:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Ahhhh Bear country, No petting the bear, we need you back here for fish talk. -Mike Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest. The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night. With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. Thanks again for the response, Bill -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 4:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? Steve, I didn't look enough about the great mystery???? What happenend was I could not figure out how Raymond Wetzel came up with all of this mysterious information! Turns out there was no mystery at all. I just didn�t look far enough into the web site. This time I did, along with getting a phone number for contact with them. If I order a tank from them that would most certainly be useful information. . I was really hoping to hear something/anything on that Internet tank but it doesn�t look like that will happen. That being the case and really wanting that size tank it looks like Glass Cages will get the nod at some point. First order of business though is a Water T esting Kit. Many irons in the fire here what with pipes leaking in the cellar and our latest problem, an unwanted guest. The neighbors tell my wife and I that we currently have a 350-pound black bear visiting our trash cans aside the garage each night. With that being said I had to run and install yet another motion detector light aside the garage to keep him or her at bay. Thanks again for the response, Bill --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Who Said That? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:04 PM Bill, Just go to the Glass Cages web site (www.glasscages. com) and click on Delivery Schedule near the top of the page. This will tell you when and where they will be in a specific town/city. Since you already know they will be in Allentown, you can simply use the find feature, under edit, in your browser, to search for Allentown. Be sure to read everything about the delivery they will be making, so you can be sure you can handle it. If you really want to find the original message, go to the list web site http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ and search for the message.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Who Said Tha t? Hi Everyone, Need some help here-------- ------again! Somewhere in yesterday's mail someone talked about a shipment from "Glass Cages" into Allentown, PA. I thought I saved the message----- --------- --------- -NOT! I lost the entire message and what's worse who sent it! Could you please re-send that message? I'll try to be more careful, Bill ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com <http://mail. yahoo.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 1:06:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 1:10:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31617	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Sarah, � Forgive this post on yours but others have brought up one important point> Identification of the fish.� To that end photos would be most helpful to the inquiring minds on this list and my question. � When I first joined here a link came up about posting pictures to another site? I haven�t seen this link any more and was wondering if someone has it or could offer me a link to its site? � Sarah again I offer (the other post hasn�t appeared yet) water,water, water and if she does have well water --------------------------more water!� The experienced here can help you weed the fish from her well water in time but for the present, as much as you can haul or carry.� Another trick that I have use is not the filter media but the whole filter media and all, if she can spare it. �I moved discus in this matter and never lost a fish..�� BUT, it does depend on the distance you must travel because the bacteria that you need could all die if this distance is too great. � Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote: From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 9:37 AM Well, she has a 100 gallon tank that is now overpopulated due to these cichlids. I am putting them into a 35 gallon with no other fish. I figure the filter cartridge will have plenty to cover my bioload. :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: sevenspringss@ wmconnect. comDate: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, Ray--- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..> wrote:>> > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled.> sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@ ...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids> > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public. Like most fish they will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay , so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah- --Original Message----- From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..>To: aquaticlife@ ...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah" With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non- text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31618	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

www.imageshack.us is one way to host photo's and you can send the link to it in your email, they also have a photo's section in the group page you can post to and then people can go see. On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:15 AM, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > Sarah, > > Forgive this post on yours but others have brought up one important point> > Identification of the fish. To that end photos would be most helpful to > the inquiring minds on this list and my question. > > When I first joined here a link came up about posting pictures to another > site? > I haven't seen this link any more and was wondering if someone has it or > could offer me a link to its site? > > Sarah again I offer (the other post hasn't appeared yet) water,water, water > and if she does have well water --------------------------more water! The > experienced here can help you weed the fish from her well water in time but > for the present, as much as you can haul or carry. Another trick that I > have use is not the filter media but the whole filter media and all, if she > can spare it. I moved discus in this matter and never lost a fish.. BUT, > it does depend on the distance you must travel because the bacteria that you > need could all die if this distance is too great. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote: > > From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 9:37 AM > > > > > > > > Well, she has a 100 gallon tank that is now overpopulated due to these > cichlids. I am putting them into a 35 gallon with no other fish. I figure > the filter cartridge will have plenty to cover my bioload. :-) > Sarah > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run > scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever > comes." -unknown > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: sevenspringss@ wmconnect. comDate: > Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids > > Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media > culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having > shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank > as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your > cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, > preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as > this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems > rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic > bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still > a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, > Ray--- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..> > wrote:>> > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some > filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled.> > sarah> > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run > scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever > comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: > AquaticLife@ ...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] Cichlids> > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids > available to the public. Like most fish they will adapt to most any water > you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh > our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about > rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to > hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are > before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay , so I am adopting a mommy > ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are > terrorizing her > other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 > gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, > she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they > will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high > ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I > do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace > with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I > didnt want them flushed.Sarah- --Original Message----- From: Sarah Huss > <cheese911@. ..>To: aquaticlife@ ...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: > [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her > babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other > fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon > fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just > knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be > here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so > I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do > have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with > rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt > want them flushed.Sarah" With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal > with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I > probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the > strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin > me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non- text portions > of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > message have been removed]> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31619	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

"Labs" are yellow usually and will often have a black stripe on the back dorsal fin i think its called. The ones my buddy has are about 3-4 inches long. His had young also, and it looks like only 3 survived. 2 got moved into a guppy tank to grow up and the 3rd is still in the main tank. hes hiding quite well and doing just fine. I am not sure if my friend is scared to try and get him out as he will probably run from the net and possibly get eaten by any number of the much larger ciclids in the tank. On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote: > > Well, I know she had no clue what type they are. She did say there were > yellow and about the size of a baseball. If that helps any. Also, she does > live close but she is on well water. I know her fish have always been on > this. She is also an old timer as far as fish keeping goes. She does not > test her water. I will acclimate very slowly. It will also be interesting to > find out how old the babies are. She didnt know that either.Sarah > > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. > If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run > scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever > comes." -unknown > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 > 00:04:34 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cichlids > > It depends on what kind of Cichlids. Some are hard water high pH, othersare > soft water, low pH and others are everywhere in between. You've beenseeing > us discussing the African Cichlids with Bill since he thinks he hasliquid > rock type water. Can you get pictures? Does your friend of a friendknow > their water parameters? Do they live nearby you on the same watersource? If > they've been living in soft water with low pH, they may not makethe > acclimation to hard water with high pH and even if you were going totry, you > should do a drip acclimation process to give them several hours tovery > slowly acclimate to your water. You really need to know what they areand > what kind of water they've been raised in.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on > the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original > Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of > Sarah HussSent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 11:13 PMTo: > aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>: > [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her > babies. A friend of a friendhas these and they are terrorizing her other > fish. She didnt know they werenot community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon > fishless still. I dont know whatkind of cichlids these are though, she just > knew they were cichlids. So, I'mgoing to read on on them but they will be > here wednesday morning. Any quicktips? I have hard water and a high ph, so > I'm good on that aspect. I do nothave live plants in this tank but I do have > driftwood and a few rocks.Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? > Any help would be great,I have no experience with these, but I didnt want > them flushed.Sarah "Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with > life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably > would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to > meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[ _____ > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus > Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008Tested on: 10/20/2008 12:04:34 AMavast! > - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Bill, There are many sites where you can have your own online photo albums for free. One comes with your Yahoo ID and is on http://www.Flickr.com which is now owned by yahoo. Others that I've used or use are http://www.Webshots.com and http://www.PhotoBucket.com As with any site, keep it simple and DON'T download all of the junk software some of them might ask you to download. I keep it simple with all of these photo hosting sites and upload photos a few at a time. They do offer software to allow you to "manage" your photo albums but many of these programs come with resource hogging items that are added to the startup processes on computers, which unnecessarily slows down people's computers... but that's a whole different forum. Even with these free or paid online photo albums, it's a good idea to have a backup or redundancy with the free photo albums on two different sites since I've seen websites shut down and dump peoples online photo albums after many years. Yahoo even did this when they bought Flickr. It seems to me they could have migrated things over to a Flickr account for people with Yahoo Photo Albums but instead they just gave the people a certain period of time to do it themselves and if they didn't, they lost all their photos. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sarah, Forgive this post on yours but others have brought up one important point> Identification of the fish. To that end photos would be most helpful to the inquiring minds on this list and my question. When I first joined here a link came up about posting pictures to another site? I haven't seen this link any more and was wondering if someone has it or could offer me a link to its site? Sarah again I offer (the other post hasn't appeared yet) water,water, water and if she does have well water --------------------------more water! The experienced here can help you weed the fish from her well water in time but for the present, as much as you can haul or carry. Another trick that I have use is not the filter media but the whole filter media and all, if she can spare it. I moved discus in this matter and never lost a fish.. BUT, it does depend on the distance you must travel because the bacteria that you need could all die if this distance is too great. Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote: From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 9:37 AM Well, she has a 100 gallon tank that is now overpopulated due to these cichlids. I am putting them into a 35 gallon with no other fish. I figure the filter cartridge will have plenty to cover my bioload. :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: sevenspringss@ wmconnect. comDate: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, Ray--- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..> wrote:>> > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled.> sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@ ...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids> > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public. Like most fish they will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay , so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah- --Original Message----- From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..>To: aquaticlife@ ...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah" With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non- text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 12:17:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31621	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Hi Lenny, It was just a thought, at the time I was thinking of my posts this morning about Sarah and those fish fry she is moving for purpose�s of id.� I did also find that by returning to our own group site you can post there if you chose to do so.� I just caught the pictures of the Eel that they are trying to get a home for.� Some of my early post this morning seem to have gotten lost???????????� I know they are subject to approval and I do use the super secret code check box but I haven�t seen them yet?� I�m having the �fits� right now with this machine as Yahoo Mail seems as though it takes forever to sign in.� I�m thinking maybe later in the week to do a wipe and full system reload.� Running DSL here and she used to be lightning fast.� Right now its like two hamster�s on a wheel. � In the meantime I�m sitting here staring at an MT driveway that should have had a plumber�s truck in it by now.� It�s not shaping up to be a good day here and of course I can�t leave to get that test kit either because he might just show up! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.� I think I just saw the bear wince at that one!� What are you going to do?� Ya try right? � Wishin� & Hopin� � Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:17 PM Bill, There are many sites where you can have your own online photo albums for free. One comes with your Yahoo ID and is on http://www.Flickr. com which is now owned by yahoo. Others that I've used or use are http://www.Webshots .com and http://www.PhotoBuc ket.com. As with any site, keep it simple and DON'T download all of the junk software some of them might ask you to download. I keep it simple with all of these photo hosting sites and upload photos a few at a time. They do offer software to allow you to "manage" your photo albums but many of these programs come with resource hogging items that are added to the startup processes on computers, which unnecessarily slows down people's computers... but that's a whole different forum. Even with these free or paid online photo albums, it's a good idea to have a backup or redundancy with the free photo albums on two different sites since I've seen websites shut down and dump peoples online photo albums after many years. Yahoo even did this when they bought Flickr. It seems to me they could have migrated things over to a Flickr account for people with Yahoo Photo Albums but instead they just gave the people a certain period of time to do it themselves and if they didn't, they lost all their photos. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sarah, Forgive this post on yours but others have brought up one important point> Identification of the fish. To that end photos would be most helpful to the inquiring minds on this list and my question. When I first joined here a link came up about posting pictures to another site? I haven't seen this link any more and was wondering if someone has it or could offer me a link to its site? Sarah again I offer (the other post hasn't appeared yet) water,water, water and if she does have well water ------------ --------- -----more water! The experienced here can help you weed the fish from her well water in time but for the present, as much as you can haul or carry. Another trick that I have use is not the filter media but the whole filter media and all, if she can spare it. I moved discus in this matter and never lost a fish.. BUT, it does depend on the distance you must travel because the bacteria that you need could all die if this distance is too great. Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Sarah Huss <cheese911@hotmail. com> wrote: From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@hotmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 9:37 AM Well, she has a 100 gallon tank that is now overpopulated due to these cichlids. I am putting them into a 35 gallon with no other fish. I figure the filter cartridge will have plenty to cover my bioload. :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: sevenspringss@ wmconnect. comDate: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, Ray--- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..> wrote:>> > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled.> sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@ ...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids> > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public. Like most fish they will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay , so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah- --Original Message----- From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..>To: aquaticlife@ ...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah" With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non- text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 12:17:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31622	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Hi Bill, Just saw your message. I went to the web page to see if any messages were waiting to be approved and there were none waiting for approval. -Mike PS. Is it illegal to use a paintball gun on a bear?   Some of my early post this morning seem to have gotten lost???????????  I know they are subject to approval and I do use the super secret code check box but I haven’t seen them yet?  I’m having the “fits” right now with this machine as Yahoo Mail seems as though it takes forever to sign in.  I’m thinking maybe later in the week to do a wipe and full system reload.  Running DSL here and she used to be lightning fast.  Right now its like two hamster’s on a wheel. -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:38 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Hi Lenny, It was just a thought, at the time I was thinking of my posts this morning about Sarah and those fish fry she is moving for purpose’s of id.  I did also find that by returning to our own group site you can post there if you chose to do so.  I just caught the pictures of the Eel that they are trying to get a home for.  Some of my early post this morning seem to have gotten lost???????????  I know they are subject to approval and I do use the super secret20code check box but I haven’t seen them yet?  I’m having the “fits” right now with this machine as Yahoo Mail seems as though it takes forever to sign in.  I’m thinking maybe later in the week to do a wipe and full system reload.  Running DSL here and she used to be lightning fast.  Right now its like two hamster’s on a wheel.   In the meantime I’m sitting here staring at an MT driveway that should have had a plumber’s truck in it by now.  It’s not shaping up to be a good day here and of course I can’t leave to get that test kit either because he might just show up! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  I think I just saw the bear wince at that one!  What are you going to do?  Ya try right?   Wishin’ & Hopin’   Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:17 PM Bill, There are many sites where you can have your own online photo albums for free. One comes with your Yahoo ID and is on http://www.Flickr. com which is now owned by yahoo. Others that I've used or use are http://www.Webshots .com and http://www.PhotoBuc ket.com. As with any site, keep it simple and DON'T download all of the junk software some of them might ask you to download. I keep it simple with all20of these photo hosting sites and upload photos a few at a time. They do offer software to allow you to "manage" your photo albums but many of these programs come with resource hogging items that are added to the startup processes on computers, which unnecessarily slows down people's computers... but that's a whole different forum. Even with these free or paid online photo albums, it's a good idea to have a backup or redundancy with the free photo albums on two different sites since I've seen websites shut down and dump peoples online photo albums after many years. Yahoo even did this when they bought Flickr. It seems to me they could have migrated things over to a Flickr account for people with Yahoo Photo Albums but instead they just gave the people a certain period of time to do it themselves and if they didn't, they lost all their photos. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sarah, Forgive this post on yours but others have brought up one important point> Identification of the fish. To that end photos would be most helpful to the inquiring minds on this list and my question. When I first joined here a link came up about posting pi ctures to another site? I haven't seen this link any more and was wondering if someone has it or could offer me a link to its site? Sarah again I offer (the other post hasn't appeared yet) water,water, water and if she does have well water ------------ --------- -----more water! The experienced here can help you weed the fish from her well water in time but for the present, as much as you can haul or carry. Another trick that I have use is not the filter media but the whole filter media and all, if she can spare it. I moved discus in this matter and never lost a fish.. BUT, it does depend on the distance you must travel because the bacteria that you need could all die if this distance is too great. Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Sarah Huss <cheese911@hotmail. com> wrote: From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@hotmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 9:37 AM Well, she has a 100 gallon tank that is now overpopulated due to these cichlids. I am putting them into a 35 gallon with no other fish. I figure the filter cartridge will have plenty to cover my bioload. :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: sevenspringss@ wmconnect. comDa te: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, Ray--- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..> wrote:>> > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled.> sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@ ...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids> > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public. Like most fish th ey will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay , so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah- --Original Message----- From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..>To: aquaticlife@ ...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going t o read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah" With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non- text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 12:17:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(( ((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31623	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Thanks Mike,   The missing post about Sarah appeared in part of a message that Lenny just sent so it did go through ok.  Perhaps an OM (operator malfunction) on this end! As you can tell from the posts; I’m not exactly having a red-letter day here.   On the bear?  I don’t know for sure if they could fire it!  Paws are too large.  If you met would I use a paint ball gun on a bear?  That’s just about the same as throwing a cup of gas on a forest fire.  And with just about the same result!    Best safety is to keep your eyes and ears wide open and give them a wide birth.  Remember, they were here first!  They’re only sharing with us humans.  Respect and kindness go a long way------------------just the same as dealing with people.   Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:07 PM Hi Bill, Just saw your message. I went to the web page to see if any messages were waiting to be approved and there were none waiting for approval. -Mike PS. Is it illegal to use a paintball gun on a bear?   Some of my early post this morning seem to have gotten lost???????? ???  I know they are subject to approval and I do use the super secret code check box but I haven’t seen them yet?  I’m having the “fitsâ€� right now with this machine as Yahoo Mail seems as though it takes forever to sign in.  I’m thinking maybe later in the week to do a wipe and full system reload.  Running DSL here and she used to be lightning fast.  Right now its like two hamster’s on a wheel. -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:38 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Hi Lenny, It was just a thought, at the time I was thinking of my posts this morning about Sarah and those fish fry she is moving for purpose’s of id.  I did also find that by returning to our own group site you can post there if you chose to do so.  I just caught the pictures of the Eel that they are trying to get a home for.  Some of my early post this morning seem to have gotten lost???????? ???  I know they are subject to approval and I do use the super secret20code check box but I haven’t seen them yet?  I’m having the “fitsâ€� right now with this machine as Yahoo Mail seems as though it takes forever to sign in.  I’m thinking maybe later in the week to do a wipe and full system reload.  Running DSL here and she used to be lightning fast.  Right now its like two hamster’s on a wheel.   In the meantime I’m sitting here staring at an MT driveway that should have had a plumber’s truck in it by now.  It’s not shaping up to be a good day here and of course I can’t leave to get that test kit either because he might just show up! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  I think I just saw the bear wince at that one!  What are you going to do?  Ya try right?   Wishin’ & Hopin’   Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:17 PM Bill, There are many sites where you can have your own online photo albums for free. One comes with your Yahoo ID and is on http://www.Flickr. com which is now owned by yahoo. Others that I've used or use are http://www.Webshots .com and http://www.PhotoBuc ket.com. As with any site, keep it simple and DON'T download all of the junk software some of them might ask you to download. I keep it simple with all20of these photo hosting sites and upload photos a few at a time. They do offer software to allow you to "manage" your photo albums but many of these programs come with resource hogging items that are added to the startup processes on computers, which unnecessarily slows down people's computers... but that's a whole different forum. Even with these free or paid online photo albums, it's a good idea to have a backup or redundancy with the free photo albums on two different sites since I've seen websites shut down and dump peoples online photo albums after many years. Yahoo even did this when they bought Flickr. It seems to me they could have migrated things over to a Flickr account for people with Yahoo Photo Albums but instead they just gave the people a certain period of time to do it themselves and if they didn't, they lost all their photos. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sarah, Forgive this post on yours but others have brought up one important point> Identification of the fish. To that end photos would be most helpful to the inquiring minds on this list and my question. When I first joined here a link came up about posting pi ctures to another site? I haven't seen this link any more and was wondering if someone has it or could offer me a link to its site? Sarah again I offer (the other post hasn't appeared yet) water,water, water and if she does have well water ------------ --------- -----more water! The experienced here can help you weed the fish from her well water in time but for the present, as much as you can haul or carry. Another trick that I have use is not the filter media but the whole filter media and all, if she can spare it. I moved discus in this matter and never lost a fish.. BUT, it does depend on the distance you must travel because the bacteria that you need could all die if this distance is too great. Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Sarah Huss <cheese911@hotmail. com> wrote: From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@hotmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 9:37 AM Well, she has a 100 gallon tank that is now overpopulated due to these cichlids. I am putting them into a 35 gallon with no other fish. I figure the filter cartridge will have plenty to cover my bioload. :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: sevenspringss@ wmconnect. comDa te: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, Ray--- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..> wrote:>> > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled.> sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@ ...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids> > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public. Like most fish th ey will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay , so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah- --Original Message----- From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..>To: aquaticlife@ ...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going t o read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah" With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non- text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 12:17:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(( ((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31624	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Hi Bill, Paint ball was more of a joke, I have spent a lot of time out in the woods. Used to hunt as a child. Have a lot of respect for critters large and small. I know not to harass bears. I don't want to be the subject of a new bear documentary about getting eating by a bear that I thought was "my friend" like that wingnut that got eaten a few years back. But I do know that when they get comfortable in an area they are sure hard to dissuade from coming around. Play it safe, -Mike On the bear?  I don’t know for sure if they could fire it!  Paws are too large.  If you met would I use a paint ball gun on a bear?  That’s just about the same as throwing a cup of gas on a forest fire.  And with just about the same result!    Best safety is to keep your eyes and ears wide open and give them a wide birth.  Remember, they were here first!  They’re only sharing with us humans.  Respect and kindness go a long way------------------just the same as dealing with people.   Bill -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:22 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Thanks Mike,   The missing post about Sarah appeared in part of a message that Lenny just sent so it did go through ok.  Perhaps an OM (operator malfunction) on this end! As you can tell from the posts; I’m not exactly having a red-letter day here.   On the bear?  I don’t know for sure if they could fire it!  Paws are too large.  If you met would I use a paint ball gun on a bear?  That’s just about the same as throwing a cup of gas on a forest fire.  And with just about the same result!    Best safety is to keep your eyes and ears wide open and give them a wide birth.  Remember, they were here first!  They’re only sharing with us humans.  Respect and kindness go a long way------------------just the same as dealing with people.   Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:07 PM Hi Bill, Just saw your message. I went to the web page to see if any messages were waiting to be approved and there were none waiting for approval. -Mike PS. Is it illegal to use a paintball gun on a bear?   Some of my early post this morning seem to have gotten lost???????? ???  I know they are subject to approval and I do use the super secret code check box but I haven’t seen them yet?  I’m having the “fitsâ€� right no w with this machine as Yahoo Mail seems as though it takes forever to sign in.  I’m thinking maybe later in the week to do a wipe and full system reload.  Running DSL here and she used to be lightning fast.  Right now its like two hamster’s on a wheel. -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:38 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Hi Lenny, It was just a thought, at the time I was thinking of my posts this morning about Sarah and those fish fry she is moving for purpose’s of id.  I did also find that by returning to our own group site you can post there if you chose to do so.  I just caught the pictures of the Eel that they are trying to get a home for.  Some of my early post this morning seem to have gotten lost???????? ???  I know they are subject to approval and I do use the super secret20code check box but I haven’t seen them yet?  I’m having the “fitsâ€� right now with this machine as Yahoo Mail seems as though it takes forever to sign in.  I’m thinking maybe later in the week to do a wipe and full system reload.  Running DSL here and she used to be lightning fast.  Right n ow its like two hamster’s on a wheel.   In the meantime I’m sitting here staring at an MT driveway that should have had a plumber’s truck in it by now.  It’s not shaping up to be a good day here and of course I can’t leave to get that test kit either because he might just show up! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  I think I just saw the bear wince at that one!  What are you going to do?  Ya try right?   Wishin’ & Hopin’   Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:17 PM Bill, There are many sites where you can have your own online photo albums for free. One comes with your Yahoo ID and is on http://www.Flickr. com which is now owned by yahoo. Others that I've used or use are http://www.Webshots .com and http://www.PhotoBuc ket.com. As with any site, keep it simple and DON'T download all of the junk software some of them might ask you to download. I keep it simple with all20of these photo hosting sites and upload photos a few at a time. They do offer software to allow you to "manage" your photo albums but many of these programs come with resource ho gging items that are added to the startup processes on computers, which unnecessarily slows down people's computers... but that's a whole different forum. Even with these free or paid online photo albums, it's a good idea to have a backup or redundancy with the free photo albums on two different sites since I've seen websites shut down and dump peoples online photo albums after many years. Yahoo even did this when they bought Flickr. It seems to me they could have migrated things over to a Flickr account for people with Yahoo Photo Albums but instead they just gave the people a certain period of time to do it themselves and if they didn't, they lost all their photos. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sarah, Forgive this post on yours but others have brought up one important point> Identification of the fish. To that end photos would be most helpful to the inquiring minds on this list and my question. When I first joined here a link came up about posting pi ctures to another site? I haven't seen this link any more and was wondering if someone has it or cou ld offer me a link to its site? Sarah again I offer (the other post hasn't appeared yet) water,water, water and if she does have well water ------------ --------- -----more water! The experienced here can help you weed the fish from her well water in time but for the present, as much as you can haul or carry. Another trick that I have use is not the filter media but the whole filter media and all, if she can spare it. I moved discus in this matter and never lost a fish.. BUT, it does depend on the distance you must travel because the bacteria that you need could all die if this distance is too great. Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Sarah Huss <cheese911@hotmail. com> wrote: From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@hotmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 9:37 AM Well, she has a 100 gallon tank that is now overpopulated due to these cichlids. I am putting them into a 35 gallon with no other fish. I figure the filter cartridge will have plenty to cover my bioload. :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: sevenspringss@ wmconnect. comDa te: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, Ray--- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..> wrote:>> > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled.> sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@ ...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids> > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public.=2 0Like most fish th ey will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay , so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah- --Original Message----- From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..>To: aquaticlife@ ...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids thes e are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going t o read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah" With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non- text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 12:17:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING belo w it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(( ((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31625	From: bill1433	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlids

I know Mike.� Since removing the necessary trash cans to inside the garage (with its door down at night) they haven�t been around as much.� It�s usually always about food with them.� I know you were teasing and thank you for your concern.� I�m just a big baby.� I�m afraid of anything bigger than I am----------------------thankfully that�s not too much! � Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:40 PM Hi Bill, Paint ball was more of a joke, I have spent a lot of time out in the woods. Used to hunt as a child. Have a lot of respect for critters large and small. I know not to harass bears. I don't want to be the subject of a new bear documentary about getting eating by a bear that I thought was "my friend" like that wingnut that got eaten a few years back. But I do know that when they get comfortable in an area they are sure hard to dissuade from coming around. Play it safe, -Mike On the bear?�� I don���t know for sure if they could fire it!�� Paws are too large.�� If you met would I use a paint ball gun on a bear?�� That���s just about the same as throwing a cup of gas on a forest fire.�� And with just about the same result!�� �� Best safety is to keep your eyes and ears wide open and give them a wide birth.�� Remember, they were here first!�� They���re only sharing with us humans.�� Respect and kindness go a long way--------- --------- just the same as dealing with people. �� Bill -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:22 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Thanks Mike, �� The missing post about Sarah appeared in part of a message that Lenny just sent so it did go through ok.�� Perhaps an OM (operator malfunction) on this end! As you can tell from the posts; I���m not exactly having a red-letter day here. �� On the bear?�� I don���t know for sure if they could fire it!�� Paws are too large.�� If you met would I use a paint ball gun on a bear?�� That���s just about the same as throwing a cup of gas on a forest fire.�� And with just about the same result!�� �� Best safety is to keep your eyes and ears wide open and give them a wide birth.�� Remember, they were here first!�� They���re only sharing with us humans.�� Respect and kindness go a long way--------- --------- just the same as dealing with people. �� Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: From: Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:07 PM Hi Bill, Just saw your message. I went to the web page to see if any messages were waiting to be approved and there were none waiting for approval. -Mike PS. Is it illegal to use a paintball gun on a bear? ���� Some of my early post this morning seem to have gotten lost???????? ???���� I know they are subject to approval and I do use the super secret code check box but I haven��������t seen them yet?���� I��������m having the �������fits�������� right no w with this machine as Yahoo Mail seems as though it takes forever to sign in.���� I��������m thinking maybe later in the week to do a wipe and full system reload.���� Running DSL here and she used to be lightning fast.���� Right now its like two hamster��������s on a wheel. -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:38 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Hi Lenny, It was just a thought, at the time I was thinking of my posts this morning about Sarah and those fish fry she is moving for purpose��������s of id.���� I did also find that by returning to our own group site you can post there if you chose to do so.���� I just caught the pictures of the Eel that they are trying to get a home for.���� Some of my early post this morning seem to have gotten lost???????? ???���� I know they are subject to approval and I do use the super secret20code check box but I haven��������t seen them yet?���� I��������m having the �������fits�������� right now with this machine as Yahoo Mail seems as though it takes forever to sign in.���� I��������m thinking maybe later in the week to do a wipe and full system reload.���� Running DSL here and she used to be lightning fast.���� Right n ow its like two hamster��������s on a wheel. ���� In the meantime I��������m sitting here staring at an MT driveway that should have had a plumber��������s truck in it by now.���� It��������s not shaping up to be a good day here and of course I can��������t leave to get that test kit either because he might just show up! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.���� I think I just saw the bear wince at that one!���� What are you going to do?���� Ya try right? ���� Wishin�������� & Hopin�������� ���� Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 1:17 PM Bill, There are many sites where you can have your own online photo albums for free. One comes with your Yahoo ID and is on http://www.Flickr. com which is now owned by yahoo. Others that I've used or use are http://www.Webshots .com and http://www.PhotoBuc ket.com. As with any site, keep it simple and DON'T download all of the junk software some of them might ask you to download. I keep it simple with all20of these photo hosting sites and upload photos a few at a time. They do offer software to allow you to "manage" your photo albums but many of these programs come with resource ho gging items that are added to the startup processes on computers, which unnecessarily slows down people's computers... but that's a whole different forum. Even with these free or paid online photo albums, it's a good idea to have a backup or redundancy with the free photo albums on two different sites since I've seen websites shut down and dump peoples online photo albums after many years. Yahoo even did this when they bought Flickr. It seems to me they could have migrated things over to a Flickr account for people with Yahoo Photo Albums but instead they just gave the people a certain period of time to do it themselves and if they didn't, they lost all their photos. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sarah, Forgive this post on yours but others have brought up one important point> Identification of the fish. To that end photos would be most helpful to the inquiring minds on this list and my question. When I first joined here a link came up about posting pi ctures to another site? I haven't seen this link any more and was wondering if someone has it or cou ld offer me a link to its site? Sarah again I offer (the other post hasn't appeared yet) water,water, water and if she does have well water ------------ --------- -----more water! The experienced here can help you weed the fish from her well water in time but for the present, as much as you can haul or carry. Another trick that I have use is not the filter media but the whole filter media and all, if she can spare it. I moved discus in this matter and never lost a fish.. BUT, it does depend on the distance you must travel because the bacteria that you need could all die if this distance is too great. Bill --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Sarah Huss <cheese911@hotmail. com> wrote: From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@hotmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 9:37 AM Well, she has a 100 gallon tank that is now overpopulated due to these cichlids. I am putting them into a 35 gallon with no other fish. I figure the filter cartridge will have plenty to cover my bioload. :-) Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: sevenspringss@ wmconnect. comDa te: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cichlids Sorry to say, but unless the previous owner brings the whole filter media culture (and that is populated for near the fish load you will be having shortly), a sample ("some") filter media will not INSTANTLY have your tank as being cycled. While this will go a l o o o n n g way in getting your cycle going, it will still take a short time to fully establish it, preferably by feeding it with ammonia. Aerobic autotrophic bacteria such as this (Nitrobacteraceae) can double in population within 24 hours which seems rather comfortably fast, but not when compared to anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria which can multiply at the rate of doubling every 2 hours. Its still a rather slow process and will need additional time for a complete cycle, Ray--- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..> wrote:>> > The tank is not cycled but the previous owner will bring some filter media from her tank with the fish, so it should instantly be cycled.> sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@ ...: Deenerz@...: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:20:50 -0400Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cichlids> > > > > Hi Sarah,There are hundreds of cichlids available to the public.=2 0Like most fish th ey will adapt to most any water you have coming out of your tap once treated for chloramines. Please refresh our (my) memories, is this tank cycled?I would not worry too much about rocks or driftwood. The driftwood and rocks will give the fry a chance to hide if mom decides they are a tasty treat.Just watch and see how they are before removing rocks or driftwood.-MikeOkay , so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids these are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going to read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah- --Original Message----- From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@. ..>To: aquaticlife@ ...: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:12 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] CichlidsOkay, so I am adopting a mommy ciclhlid and her babies. A friend of a friend has these and they are terrorizing her other fish. She didnt know they were not community fish. So, I have my 35 gallon fishless still. I dont know what kind of cichlids thes e are though, she just knew they were cichlids. So, I'm going t o read on on them but they will be here wednesday morning. Any quick tips? I have hard water and a high ph, so I'm good on that aspect. I do not have live plants in this tank but I do have driftwood and a few rocks. Should I keep the driftwood or replace with rocks? Any help would be great, I have no experience with these, but I didnt want them flushed.Sarah" With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non- text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 12:17:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING belo w it when replying, Thank You. ������������`����.��������.><((((����>.������������`����.��������.������������`����.����><(( ((����> ����.������������`����.����. , .������������`����..><((((����> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <����((((><.������������`����.��������.������������`����.����<����((((><����.������������`����.����. , .������������`����..<����((((><������������`����.��������. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31626	From: Jennie	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

I added one tablespoon for 5 gallons like it says on the aquarium salt. NO 3 was zero and I have one plant of Hornwort free floating. The hardness of the water was between 0 and 80ppm. I have Petco's 5-way test stripes. I have bio sponges floating in my tank too. I heard they coming handy starting a new tank. I found 2 - 10gal tanks with biofilters and everything at Goodwill. Thought I would give my Betta a bigger home and have a hospital tank too. They were $37 for both tanks together. I am going to wash them with light bleach solution and let them set for a day to air dry and get rid of any bleach that didn't rince off. I'm going to cycle the tank without fish this time. To much heart ache watching thoughs goldfish die. Can I use the water from my big tank when I do water changes to cycle the 10gal tank? Thanks for the help! Jennie --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:38 PM How much salt did you add? Livebearers do OK with a little salt and they prefer harder water. Sorry, I'm not experience with how to convert a hydrometer test result to teaspoons per gallon. I'm concerned about you not having a nitrate reading. If you have a better test kit, re-check the nitrates (NO3). You mention Hornwort but you don't say the tank is heavily planted so it would be unusual to not have some level of nitrates in a lightly planted tank. Do you have a better test kit, other than the dip strips? If no, and if you've been reading out here, WalMart sells two different brands for around $15.00 and they'll last you around a year of weekly or more testing so definitely get a master test kit instead of the dip strips when you run out. How is the water comparing to your tap water baseline? I remember your post about moving the Betta into your tank and you though the Dalmation Molly had a crush on him. Looks more like she wanted to CRUSH him. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/18/2008 9:52:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com <http://mail. yahoo.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 3:55:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081018-0, 10/18/2008 Tested on: 10/19/2008 6:38:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31627	From: Jennie	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

I just found 2 - 10 gal tanks at Goodwill for $37 together. I can separated the neons and oto's with my Betta. They don't try to eat my betta like the Molly did. Will he eat the tetras? Thanks Jennie --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 1:57 PM If you read the result of your hydrometer correctly--remember , it needs to be corrected for temperature, you do not have a measurable quantity of salt in your tank. Your tetras and otto cats would prefer no salt added, while your mollies and platys would probably do better with a small amount of salt added. In other words, these are fish you probably do not want to mix. However, since you already have, they should do OK together. In the future, though, remember that mollies and platys are more suited to a harder more base water, while the ottos and neons are suited more for softer, more acid water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 4:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80,  TH is 0. I tested the ammonia  0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31628	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: any opinions

150 gallons, discus, chocolate gouramis, opinions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31629	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: any opinions

A 5ft, 10 year old Green Moray Eel named Bruce? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > 150 gallons, discus, chocolate gouramis, opinions? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: any opinions

Gotta love that plug for Bruce! ;-) And I'm sure Bruce would love discus, chocolate gouramis and anything else in the tank too! They wouldn't last long in SW but I'm sure Bruce wouldn't care. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 7:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: any opinions A 5ft, 10 year old Green Moray Eel named Bruce? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > 150 gallons, discus, chocolate gouramis, opinions? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081020-0, 10/20/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 8:31:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31631	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

Water will not cycle a tank or even help cycle a tank. The nitrifying bacteria might occasionally be suspended in the water column but for the most part, they live on surface areas of the filter media but also on any other surface area of a tank. The only good thing about using water from an existing tank is so the fish will not have an added stressor of having to be acclimated to new water parameters so if you are moving a fish from a current tank, use their current water in the new tank and then move the fish so it will not have any kind of osmotic, pH or temperature shock. I'm still concerned that your tank isn't cycling properly... either that or your test strips are not giving you accurate readings.. which is my first suspect. Dip strips are notoriously inaccurate which is why we talk about how important it is to have a decent Master Test Kit which can be purchased for as little as $15.00 and lasts much, much longer than a little bottle of dip strips. In a tank that is cycled, you would be getting a nitrate reading and the nitrate reading would go up a little each day in between PWC's.. except for cases of heavily planted tanks. Do you have any kind of whitish colored rocks in your filter system? Many newbie's get hooked into buying some kind of ammonia absorbing product (zeolite with different brand names) and this product, while sounding like a noble thing, actually sucks up the ammonia but this stops a tank from ever fully and properly cycling. Of course, adding salt to a tank with zeolite would make matters much worse as salt causes zeolite to discharge all of the ammonia which then compounds things even worse. Biosponges? Are they supposed to be floating in the tank? The only thing I can think of that would have a name similar to that is some kind of bio-filtration media that would go in a filter system... and then it wouldn't help cycle the tank per se, but would provide added surface area in the filter for a larger nitrifying bacteria colony to grow on. Do you have a link to an online product description of this item? Yes.... fishless cycling is the way to go and if we can figure out if your larger tank is fully cycled, you can use some of the filter media or gravel from that tank in the filter reservoirs of the new/used tanks to make the fishless cycling go much, much faster... 10 days or so instead of 4-6 weeks. If you are just going to be putting the Betta in the 10G by himself, you could technically do this without fishless cycling the tank since it would be a small bioload on a 10G tank and a small piece of your filter media, from your current tank, added to the filter reservoir of the new filter, would likely be sufficient to keep the tank safe for a single Betta. Or you could just do a fishless cycle to 1-2ppm of ammonia (instead of 4-5ppm) which is the most a single Betta would create per day anyhow. When you added the salt to your tank, did you do it in 1/3rd doses, every 12 hours, to build it up to a tablespoon per 5G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I added one tablespoon for 5 gallons like it says on the aquarium salt. NO 3 was zero and I have one plant of Hornwort free floating. The hardness of the water was between 0 and 80ppm. I have Petco's 5-way test stripes. I have bio sponges floating in my tank too. I heard they coming handy starting a new tank. I found 2 - 10gal tanks with biofilters and everything at Goodwill. Thought I would give my Betta a bigger home and have a hospital tank too. They were $37 for both tanks together. I am going to wash them with light bleach solution and let them set for a day to air dry and get rid of any bleach that didn't rince off. I'm going to cycle the tank without fish this time. To much heart ache watching thoughs goldfish die. Can I use the water from my big tank when I do water changes to cycle the 10gal tank? Thanks for the help! Jennie --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:38 PM How much salt did you add? Livebearers do OK with a little salt and they prefer harder water. Sorry, I'm not experience with how to convert a hydrometer test result to teaspoons per gallon. I'm concerned about you not having a nitrate reading. If you have a better test kit, re-check the nitrates (NO3). You mention Hornwort but you don't say the tank is heavily planted so it would be unusual to not have some level of nitrates in a lightly planted tank. Do you have a better test kit, other than the dip strips? If no, and if you've been reading out here, WalMart sells two different brands for around $15.00 and they'll last you around a year of weekly or more testing so definitely get a master test kit instead of the dip strips when you run out. How is the water comparing to your tap water baseline? I remember your post about moving the Betta into your tank and you though the Dalmation Molly had a crush on him. Looks more like she wanted to CRUSH him. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081020-0, 10/20/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 8:50:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

Check out my blog article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". Here's a snip of the section on Betta's (see the entire article for more details but your neon's and otos should be fine... but not all Betta's read the same things we do ;-)) Were you planning on a school of neon's or a shoal of otos? A 10G wouldn't be big enough for both of them and the Betta. (START SNIP) *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good tank mates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn’t eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the betta you choose. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I just found 2 - 10 gal tanks at Goodwill for $37 together. I can separated the neons and oto's with my Betta. They don't try to eat my betta like the Molly did. Will he eat the tetras? Thanks Jennie --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 1:57 PM If you read the result of your hydrometer correctly--remember , it needs to be corrected for temperature, you do not have a measurable quantity of salt in your tank. Your tetras and otto cats would prefer no salt added, while your mollies and platys would probably do better with a small amount of salt added. In other words, these are fish you probably do not want to mix. However, since you already have, they should do OK together. In the future, though, remember that mollies and platys are more suited to a harder more base water, while the ottos and neons are suited more for softer, more acid water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 4:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com <http://mail.yahoo.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081020-0, 10/20/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 7:12:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081020-0, 10/20/2008 Tested on: 10/20/2008 8:57:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31633	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly

Hey Lenny + Gang, How funny, my male Betta must be having an identity crisis! He shares his new 55 with just about all the contra indicated fish you mentioned + he is totally peaceful with just about all of them, except for the occasional gill flaring + only for my 1 Dwarf Gourami, who gets the message fast + takes off to the other end of the tank. LOL! He doesn't bother my African Dwarf Frog, my 16 Ghost Shrimp or my 4 Mystery Snails. He also shares the surface with my fast swimming 3 Glolight Danios and my 4 female and 2 Male Big Tailed Fancy Guppies and he completely ignores them. He has never even flared at them. I know this is not the normal demeanor for a male Betta, but I consider myself very lucky that he has such a peaceful personality. I even threw my 2 female Bettas in there as a test to see if they could share the tank, and he was totally scared of them. In fact they made it a point to gang up + chase him around. As soon as they began nipping at his beautiful tail, I yanked them out as they were being the aggressors. I know I sound crazy to the avg. Person, non-fish maniac, but I love my Betta and I'm so proud of him + his great personality. I got lucky when I picked him. :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:57:50 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly Check out my blog article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". Here's a snip of the section on Betta's (see the entire article for more details but your neon's and otos should be fine... but not all Betta's read the same things we do ;-)) Were you planning on a school of neon's or a shoal of otos? A 10G wouldn't be big enough for both of them and the Betta. (START SNIP) *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good tank mates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn�t eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the betta you choose. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I just found 2 - 10 gal tanks at Goodwill for $37 together. I can separated the neons and oto's with my Betta. They don't try to eat my betta like the Molly did. Will he eat the tetras? Thanks Jennie --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 1:57 PM If you read the result of your hydrometer correctly--remember , it needs to be corrected for temperature, you do not have a measurable quantity of salt in your tank. Your tetras and otto cats would prefer no salt added, while your mollies and platys would probably do better with a small amount of salt added. In other words, these are fish you probably do not want to mix. However, since you already have, they should do OK together. In the future, though, remember that mollies and platys are more suited to a harder more base water, while the ottos and neons are suited more for softer, more acid water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 4:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31634	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly

Remember, that information was about a 10G tank, not a 55G tank. BIG difference! Territorial issues are not as much of a problem in a 55G tank compared to the very limited surface area of a 10G and the other fish are able to more easily avoid him if/when he is being defensive compared to what might happen in a 10G tank. There will always be exceptions to every rule or guideline... much like there are regularly reports of a feeder fish living side by side with the fish that was it was supposed to be a meal for... or the little white mouse that lives along side the snake for which it was supposed to be a meal. As far as the female bettas, yes, it's more common for the male to lose out in a battle with a female since they are much faster swimmers. While the pretty fins might look pretty on a male Betta, they do not lend themselves to as much maneuverability. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly Hey Lenny + Gang, How funny, my male Betta must be having an identity crisis! He shares his new 55 with just about all the contra indicated fish you mentioned + he is totally peaceful with just about all of them, except for the occasional gill flaring + only for my 1 Dwarf Gourami, who gets the message fast + takes off to the other end of the tank. LOL! He doesn't bother my African Dwarf Frog, my 16 Ghost Shrimp or my 4 Mystery Snails. He also shares the surface with my fast swimming 3 Glolight Danios and my 4 female and 2 Male Big Tailed Fancy Guppies and he completely ignores them. He has never even flared at them. I know this is not the normal demeanor for a male Betta, but I consider myself very lucky that he has such a peaceful personality. I even threw my 2 female Bettas in there as a test to see if they could share the tank, and he was totally scared of them. In fact they made it a point to gang up + chase him around. As soon as they began nipping at his beautiful tail, I yanked them out as they were being the aggressors. I know I sound crazy to the avg. Person, non-fish maniac, but I love my Betta and I'm so proud of him + his great personality. I got lucky when I picked him. :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:57:50 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly Check out my blog article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". Here's a snip of the section on Betta's (see the entire article for more details but your neon's and otos should be fine... but not all Betta's read the same things we do ;-)) Were you planning on a school of neon's or a shoal of otos? A 10G wouldn't be big enough for both of them and the Betta. (START SNIP) *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good tank mates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesnt eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the betta you choose. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I just found 2 - 10 gal tanks at Goodwill for $37 together. I can separated the neons and oto's with my Betta. They don't try to eat my betta like the Molly did. Will he eat the tetras? Thanks Jennie --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 1:57 PM If you read the result of your hydrometer correctly--remember , it needs to be corrected for temperature, you do not have a measurable quantity of salt in your tank. Your tetras and otto cats would prefer no salt added, while your mollies and platys would probably do better with a small amount of salt added. In other words, these are fish you probably do not want to mix. However, since you already have, they should do OK together. In the future, though, remember that mollies and platys are more suited to a harder more base water, while the ottos and neons are suited more for softer, more acid water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 4:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie _____ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31635	From: gardn4brds	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: white mold

I guess that is what it is I tried looking this up but can find nothing. SO I hope you can all help me. I noticed my fish were sick last month went for some treatment stuff at the pet store and well they all died. I saw the white mold on the rocks and diftwood and plant growing on it. So I caleared and scrubbed and left everything running. It have been a month just running wiht no fish. Well the stuff is back. White and growing on the rocks and plants and driftwood. What do I do now?? I`m ready to throw the towel in and just pack it all up. I wnated to get a step up filter system I ahve a 25 gallon tall tank and just felt the filter was not getting the things on the bottom fo the tank sucked in. What do you all recomend. In the tank I had 2 american flag fish, and a sucker fish, so it wasnt over crowded. I would like to have guppies when I redo if I redo agian.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31636	From: Jennie	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

I think the test strips are not as much a problem as me reading it. The NO3 on the strip is so pale pink its almost white. If you are in not to bright light it looks white, so it reads 20ppm under brighter light. I will have to get the other test kit. Hope it is easier to read. The ammonia kit I have is two liquids mixed with the water and look for color change.  The sponges I have in my tank are made to be in a biofilter, so I guess they are called bio media? I have round gravel I put vinegar on a piece to test it and it did nothing so I guessed it wouldn't do anything to the water. The salt I added all at once, big mistake? The directions on the box of aquaruim salt didn't say anything about that. I had planned on using some of  the gravel, water and my bio media (thats floating around my big tank) from my 45gal to start the 10gal tank. Thanks, Jennie --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 6:50 PM Water will not cycle a tank or even help cycle a tank. The nitrifying bacteria might occasionally be suspended in the water column but for the most part, they live on surface areas of the filter media but also on any other surface area of a tank. The only good thing about using water from an existing tank is so the fish will not have an added stressor of having to be acclimated to new water parameters so if you are moving a fish from a current tank, use their current water in the new tank and then move the fish so it will not have any kind of osmotic, pH or temperature shock. I'm still concerned that your tank isn't cycling properly... either that or your test strips are not giving you accurate readings.. which is my first suspect. Dip strips are notoriously inaccurate which is why we talk about how important it is to have a decent Master Test Kit which can be purchased for as little as $15.00 and lasts much, much longer than a little bottle of dip strips. In a tank that is cycled, you would be getting a nitrate reading and the nitrate reading would go up a little each day in between PWC's.. except for cases of heavily planted tanks. Do you have any kind of whitish colored rocks in your filter system? Many newbie's get hooked into buying some kind of ammonia absorbing product (zeolite with different brand names) and this product, while sounding like a noble thing, actually sucks up the ammonia but this stops a tank from ever fully and properly cycling. Of course, adding salt to a tank with zeolite would make matters much worse as salt causes zeolite to discharge all of the ammonia which then compounds things even worse. Biosponges? Are they supposed to be floating in the tank? The only thing I can think of that would have a name similar to that is some kind of bio-filtration media that would go in a filter system... and then it wouldn't help cycle the tank per se, but would provide added surface area in the filter for a larger nitrifying bacteria colony to grow on. Do you have a link to an online product description of this item? Yes.... fishless cycling is the way to go and if we can figure out if your larger tank is fully cycled, you can use some of the filter media or gravel from that tank in the filter reservoirs of the new/used tanks to make the fishless cycling go much, much faster... 10 days or so instead of 4-6 weeks. If you are just going to be putting the Betta in the 10G by himself, you could technically do this without fishless cycling the tank since it would be a small bioload on a 10G tank and a small piece of your filter media, from your current tank, added to the filter reservoir of the new filter, would likely be sufficient to keep the tank safe for a single Betta. Or you could just do a fishless cycle to 1-2ppm of ammonia (instead of 4-5ppm) which is the most a single Betta would create per day anyhow. When you added the salt to your tank, did you do it in 1/3rd doses, every 12 hours, to build it up to a tablespoon per 5G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I added one tablespoon for 5 gallons like it says on the aquarium salt. NO 3 was zero and I have one plant of Hornwort free floating. The hardness of the water was between 0 and 80ppm. I have Petco's 5-way test stripes. I have bio sponges floating in my tank too. I heard they coming handy starting a new tank. I found 2 - 10gal tanks with biofilters and everything at Goodwill. Thought I would give my Betta a bigger home and have a hospital tank too. They were $37 for both tanks together. I am going to wash them with light bleach solution and let them set for a day to air dry and get rid of any bleach that didn't rince off. I'm going to cycle the tank without fish this time. To much heart ache watching thoughs goldfish die. Can I use the water from my big tank when I do water changes to cycle the 10gal tank? Thanks for the help! Jennie --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:38 PM How much salt did you add? Livebearers do OK with a little salt and they prefer harder water. Sorry, I'm not experience with how to convert a hydrometer test result to teaspoons per gallon. I'm concerned about you not having a nitrate reading. If you have a better test kit, re-check the nitrates (NO3). You mention Hornwort but you don't say the tank is heavily planted so it would be unusual to not have some level of nitrates in a lightly planted tank. Do you have a better test kit, other than the dip strips? If no, and if you've been reading out here, WalMart sells two different brands for around $15.00 and they'll last you around a year of weekly or more testing so definitely get a master test kit instead of the dip strips when you run out. How is the water comparing to your tap water baseline? I remember your post about moving the Betta into your tank and you though the Dalmation Molly had a crush on him. Looks more like she wanted to CRUSH him. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie _____ _____ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31637	From: Alina	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: In the blue

A girl has never been so happy to see light blue "O" nitrite readings in her tank. So here's a shout out to Lenny and all of you who got this newbie through an ugly crisis last week. All systems are normal, and mercifully, I lost only one fish -- a glowlight tetra. I did a massive cleaning of the tank, with a 30% water change over the weekend, cleaned the gravel, etc. Gary the snail is also alive and well. The nasty nuisance snails are almost non-existent too, so that's been good. I'm just going to manage them with cleanings and trapping. I fed the whole crew some bloodworms this weekend and you could tell they found nirvana. So thank you! Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31638	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

OK. It's good that you are getting a small nitrate reading. That confirms your tank is cycling properly. For the API test kit, the lower scales of test results show up more clearly and it's not until you get to the upper levels (bad levels) that the colors become close but in that case, you would just keep doing 25% PWC's, every hour or two, until you are getting a lower/safe test result. If possible, put the sponges in the filter reservoir of your filter system. They will be much more efficient and effective if they are in a place where all of the water has to pass through them rather then them randomly floating around in the tank. Sure, they'll provide surface area for the nitrifying bacteria just floating but since nitrifying bacteria needs lots of O2 rich water, they do much better when they have a lot of water flowing around them like happens in the filter reservoir. They will also come into contact with all of the ammonia/nitrites in the tank by being in the filter as well. For a simple example, if you have these sponges in the filter reservoir and presume that each of them have a equal percentage of nitrifying bacteria growing on them, then when you move some of the fish to another tank, move an equal percentage of the filter media. It's not an exact science when doing it this way but generally works with nothing more than the smallest of mini-cycles that might occur to one or both tanks. If you didn't have zeolite in your filter media and you haven't seen an ammonia/nitrite spike, then the addition of the salt worked out OK for you. It's best to increase the salinity slowly though, in 1/3rd doses.. so the fish and the nitrifying bacteria have a chance to acclimate to the increased salinity levels. Too much change, too fast, could cause as much harm as good. Now, this isn't always the case when one might have to give a quick dip to a fish in a very high salt water concentration for a known health issue but even these salt dips are tough on the fish which is why they are limited to short periods of time. Here's a simple but thorough article about use of salt in ponds written by a veterinarian. It's still the same principles in tanks except the volume of salt would obviously be much less. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html I have about ten other links to articles about salt and the osmoregulatory system on my "Health" page on my blog. While it's OK to use salt as a treatment for known issues, whether parasite, pathogen, nitrite issues, etc., I do not think salt should be used all of the time in freshwater tanks. Here is another good article on salt and the dosages are provide for tanks. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I think the test strips are not as much a problem as me reading it. The NO3 on the strip is so pale pink its almost white. If you are in not to bright light it looks white, so it reads 20ppm under brighter light. I will have to get the other test kit. Hope it is easier to read. The ammonia kit I have is two liquids mixed with the water and look for color change. The sponges I have in my tank are made to be in a biofilter, so I guess they are called bio media? I have round gravel I put vinegar on a piece to test it and it did nothing so I guessed it wouldn't do anything to the water. The salt I added all at once, big mistake? The directions on the box of aquaruim salt didn't say anything about that. I had planned on using some of the gravel, water and my bio media (thats floating around my big tank) from my 45gal to start the 10gal tank. Thanks, Jennie --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 6:50 PM Water will not cycle a tank or even help cycle a tank. The nitrifying bacteria might occasionally be suspended in the water column but for the most part, they live on surface areas of the filter media but also on any other surface area of a tank. The only good thing about using water from an existing tank is so the fish will not have an added stressor of having to be acclimated to new water parameters so if you are moving a fish from a current tank, use their current water in the new tank and then move the fish so it will not have any kind of osmotic, pH or temperature shock. I'm still concerned that your tank isn't cycling properly... either that or your test strips are not giving you accurate readings.. which is my first suspect. Dip strips are notoriously inaccurate which is why we talk about how important it is to have a decent Master Test Kit which can be purchased for as little as $15.00 and lasts much, much longer than a little bottle of dip strips. In a tank that is cycled, you would be getting a nitrate reading and the nitrate reading would go up a little each day in between PWC's.. except for cases of heavily planted tanks. Do you have any kind of whitish colored rocks in your filter system? Many newbie's get hooked into buying some kind of ammonia absorbing product (zeolite with different brand names) and this product, while sounding like a noble thing, actually sucks up the ammonia but this stops a tank from ever fully and properly cycling. Of course, adding salt to a tank with zeolite would make matters much worse as salt causes zeolite to discharge all of the ammonia which then compounds things even worse. Biosponges? Are they supposed to be floating in the tank? The only thing I can think of that would have a name similar to that is some kind of bio-filtration media that would go in a filter system... and then it wouldn't help cycle the tank per se, but would provide added surface area in the filter for a larger nitrifying bacteria colony to grow on. Do you have a link to an online product description of this item? Yes.... fishless cycling is the way to go and if we can figure out if your larger tank is fully cycled, you can use some of the filter media or gravel from that tank in the filter reservoirs of the new/used tanks to make the fishless cycling go much, much faster... 10 days or so instead of 4-6 weeks. If you are just going to be putting the Betta in the 10G by himself, you could technically do this without fishless cycling the tank since it would be a small bioload on a 10G tank and a small piece of your filter media, from your current tank, added to the filter reservoir of the new filter, would likely be sufficient to keep the tank safe for a single Betta. Or you could just do a fishless cycle to 1-2ppm of ammonia (instead of 4-5ppm) which is the most a single Betta would create per day anyhow. When you added the salt to your tank, did you do it in 1/3rd doses, every 12 hours, to build it up to a tablespoon per 5G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I added one tablespoon for 5 gallons like it says on the aquarium salt. NO 3 was zero and I have one plant of Hornwort free floating. The hardness of the water was between 0 and 80ppm. I have Petco's 5-way test stripes. I have bio sponges floating in my tank too. I heard they coming handy starting a new tank. I found 2 - 10gal tanks with biofilters and everything at Goodwill. Thought I would give my Betta a bigger home and have a hospital tank too. They were $37 for both tanks together. I am going to wash them with light bleach solution and let them set for a day to air dry and get rid of any bleach that didn't rince off. I'm going to cycle the tank without fish this time. To much heart ache watching thoughs goldfish die. Can I use the water from my big tank when I do water changes to cycle the 10gal tank? Thanks for the help! Jennie --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:38 PM How much salt did you add? Livebearers do OK with a little salt and they prefer harder water. Sorry, I'm not experience with how to convert a hydrometer test result to teaspoons per gallon. I'm concerned about you not having a nitrate reading. If you have a better test kit, re-check the nitrates (NO3). You mention Hornwort but you don't say the tank is heavily planted so it would be unusual to not have some level of nitrates in a lightly planted tank. Do you have a better test kit, other than the dip strips? If no, and if you've been reading out here, WalMart sells two different brands for around $15.00 and they'll last you around a year of weekly or more testing so definitely get a master test kit instead of the dip strips when you run out. How is the water comparing to your tap water baseline? I remember your post about moving the Betta into your tank and you though the Dalmation Molly had a crush on him. Looks more like she wanted to CRUSH him. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie _____ _____ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31639	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: white mold

Mold will grow in any body of water or where moisture is present... and it's even more likely when there is no other competing ecology. Now, that said, let's back up a little. First and foremost, now that you've found this group, DO NOT EVER listen to people at the pet store for advice. If they do suggest something, come check it out here first. 95% of the stuff (chemicals, water treatments, etc.) they sell does not work as advertised or is not needed 95% of the time. The main thing you do need is a simple dechlorinator product. I use API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They are both more concentrated than their similarly priced competitors so you'll get a lot more doses from those two brands. For example, with both of them, 1ml treats 10 gallons where other brands might need 5ml or even 10ml to treat 10 gallons. These two also treat both chlorine and chloramine and heavy metals but they do not have all the other junk stuff in them like slime-this or stress-that type products might have... which are not needed under normal circumstances. Give us a list of all of the chemicals, meds, etc. that you have on hand now so we can give you proper advice in what to do with them... and yes, one of my thoughts involve the fish store employee bending over. LOL I meant for them to tie their shoes.. not what you were thinking. LOL Before going out for more fish, you should start a "fishless cycle" on your tank. You can get a bottle of plain ammonia (non-sudsing, non-scented) at Ace Hardware or many other mom/pop type hardware stores. I'm not sure if the big-box stores sell it. Some groceries still sell plain ammonia. Here's a simple article http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html on how to fishless cycle using a SeaChem Ammonia Alert so you don't have to do a lot of testing but it's also a VERY good idea if you get a Master Test Kit that tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. You can get either the API or Tetratest-Laborette brands at Walmart for around $15.00. If you have a PetsMart nearby, they will match their online prices (print the page) so the API kit is around $15.00 there also. While you are fishless cycling the tank... 2 to 6 weeks and the mold in your tank might actually help jumpstart things... you should go to my A to Z of Fish Keeping page http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to-training.h tml and take one or both of the free online Beginner's fish keeping tutorials which will walk you step-by-step through all of the basics we will be discussing out here. Feel free to come here and ask lots and lots of questions on anything you do not understand. The tutorials links are about 6" down from the top of the page and have RED "BEGINNER'S TUTORIALS" as the caption to the paragraph. While on my A to Z page, also read and learn the information in my article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as this is one of the biggest mistakes made by newbie's... improper filter maintenance/cleaning. In the next couple of weeks, while you are fishless cycling your tank, getting it safe and ready for fish, you can start learning the basics and deciding more so on what fish you want to have. Why did you have the two American Flag fish and the "sucker fish"? Both of them are usually associated with algae eating chores which isn't needed on a newly set up tank that is properly maintained. Further, the "sucker fish" very well might have been a Common Pleco and they grow to 18"+ and need to be in really BIG tanks... 75G+.. although some LFS (local fish stores) will have a program where you can buy a juvi pleco and then return it every 6 months to a year when it starts to get bigger and exchange it for a new juvi pleco. Your tank is large enough for guppies but bear in mind that they are prolific breeders so if you were hoping to keep most of the fry alive, you would need a second tank... or you could leave it to nature on which fry survive. Have you thought about live plants for your tank yet? If you were thinking about using live plants, you could get your tank up and running quicker with the plants while you are still learning the basics and deciding on your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardn4brds Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] white mold I guess that is what it is I tried looking this up but can find nothing. SO I hope you can all help me. I noticed my fish were sick last month went for some treatment stuff at the pet store and well they all died. I saw the white mold on the rocks and diftwood and plant growing on it. So I caleared and scrubbed and left everything running. It have been a month just running wiht no fish. Well the stuff is back. White and growing on the rocks and plants and driftwood. What do I do now?? I`m ready to throw the towel in and just pack it all up. I wnated to get a step up filter system I ahve a 25 gallon tall tank and just felt the filter was not getting the things on the bottom fo the tank sucked in. What do you all recomend. In the tank I had 2 american flag fish, and a sucker fish, so it wasnt over crowded. I would like to have guppies when I redo if I redo agian. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 10:00:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 10:56:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31640	From: Jennie	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: panting Molly

Thanks that helps alot. Jennie --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 8:26 AM OK. It's good that you are getting a small nitrate reading. That confirms your tank is cycling properly. For the API test kit, the lower scales of test results show up more clearly and it's not until you get to the upper levels (bad levels) that the colors become close but in that case, you would just keep doing 25% PWC's, every hour or two, until you are getting a lower/safe test result. If possible, put the sponges in the filter reservoir of your filter system. They will be much more efficient and effective if they are in a place where all of the water has to pass through them rather then them randomly floating around in the tank. Sure, they'll provide surface area for the nitrifying bacteria just floating but since nitrifying bacteria needs lots of O2 rich water, they do much better when they have a lot of water flowing around them like happens in the filter reservoir. They will also come into contact with all of the ammonia/nitrites in the tank by being in the filter as well. For a simple example, if you have these sponges in the filter reservoir and presume that each of them have a equal percentage of nitrifying bacteria growing on them, then when you move some of the fish to another tank, move an equal percentage of the filter media. It's not an exact science when doing it this way but generally works with nothing more than the smallest of mini-cycles that might occur to one or both tanks. If you didn't have zeolite in your filter media and you haven't seen an ammonia/nitrite spike, then the addition of the salt worked out OK for you. It's best to increase the salinity slowly though, in 1/3rd doses.. so the fish and the nitrifying bacteria have a chance to acclimate to the increased salinity levels. Too much change, too fast, could cause as much harm as good. Now, this isn't always the case when one might have to give a quick dip to a fish in a very high salt water concentration for a known health issue but even these salt dips are tough on the fish which is why they are limited to short periods of time. Here's a simple but thorough article about use of salt in ponds written by a veterinarian. It's still the same principles in tanks except the volume of salt would obviously be much less. http://www.aquartic les.com/articles /ponds/Kebus_ Salt_Treatments. html I have about ten other links to articles about salt and the osmoregulatory system on my "Health" page on my blog. While it's OK to use salt as a treatment for known issues, whether parasite, pathogen, nitrite issues, etc., I do not think salt should be used all of the time in freshwater tanks. Here is another good article on salt and the dosages are provide for tanks. http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/salt. shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:50 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I think the test strips are not as much a problem as me reading it. The NO3 on the strip is so pale pink its almost white. If you are in not to bright light it looks white, so it reads 20ppm under brighter light. I will have to get the other test kit. Hope it is easier to read. The ammonia kit I have is two liquids mixed with the water and look for color change. The sponges I have in my tank are made to be in a biofilter, so I guess they are called bio media? I have round gravel I put vinegar on a piece to test it and it did nothing so I guessed it wouldn't do anything to the water. The salt I added all at once, big mistake? The directions on the box of aquaruim salt didn't say anything about that. I had planned on using some of the gravel, water and my bio media (thats floating around my big tank) from my 45gal to start the 10gal tank. Thanks, Jennie --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 6:50 PM Water will not cycle a tank or even help cycle a tank. The nitrifying bacteria might occasionally be suspended in the water column but for the most part, they live on surface areas of the filter media but also on any other surface area of a tank. The only good thing about using water from an existing tank is so the fish will not have an added stressor of having to be acclimated to new water parameters so if you are moving a fish from a current tank, use their current water in the new tank and then move the fish so it will not have any kind of osmotic, pH or temperature shock. I'm still concerned that your tank isn't cycling properly... either that or your test strips are not giving you accurate readings.. which is my first suspect. Dip strips are notoriously inaccurate which is why we talk about how important it is to have a decent Master Test Kit which can be purchased for as little as $15.00 and lasts much, much longer than a little bottle of dip strips. In a tank that is cycled, you would be getting a nitrate reading and the nitrate reading would go up a little each day in between PWC's.. except for cases of heavily planted tanks. Do you have any kind of whitish colored rocks in your filter system? Many newbie's get hooked into buying some kind of ammonia absorbing product (zeolite with different brand names) and this product, while sounding like a noble thing, actually sucks up the ammonia but this stops a tank from ever fully and properly cycling. Of course, adding salt to a tank with zeolite would make matters much worse as salt causes zeolite to discharge all of the ammonia which then compounds things even worse. Biosponges? Are they supposed to be floating in the tank? The only thing I can think of that would have a name similar to that is some kind of bio-filtration media that would go in a filter system... and then it wouldn't help cycle the tank per se, but would provide added surface area in the filter for a larger nitrifying bacteria colony to grow on. Do you have a link to an online product description of this item? Yes.... fishless cycling is the way to go and if we can figure out if your larger tank is fully cycled, you can use some of the filter media or gravel from that tank in the filter reservoirs of the new/used tanks to make the fishless cycling go much, much faster... 10 days or so instead of 4-6 weeks. If you are just going to be putting the Betta in the 10G by himself, you could technically do this without fishless cycling the tank since it would be a small bioload on a 10G tank and a small piece of your filter media, from your current tank, added to the filter reservoir of the new filter, would likely be sufficient to keep the tank safe for a single Betta. Or you could just do a fishless cycle to 1-2ppm of ammonia (instead of 4-5ppm) which is the most a single Betta would create per day anyhow. When you added the salt to your tank, did you do it in 1/3rd doses, every 12 hours, to build it up to a tablespoon per 5G? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I added one tablespoon for 5 gallons like it says on the aquarium salt. NO 3 was zero and I have one plant of Hornwort free floating. The hardness of the water was between 0 and 80ppm. I have Petco's 5-way test stripes. I have bio sponges floating in my tank too. I heard they coming handy starting a new tank. I found 2 - 10gal tanks with biofilters and everything at Goodwill. Thought I would give my Betta a bigger home and have a hospital tank too. They were $37 for both tanks together. I am going to wash them with light bleach solution and let them set for a day to air dry and get rid of any bleach that didn't rince off. I'm going to cycle the tank without fish this time. To much heart ache watching thoughs goldfish die. Can I use the water from my big tank when I do water changes to cycle the 10gal tank? Thanks for the help! Jennie --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 4:38 PM How much salt did you add? Livebearers do OK with a little salt and they prefer harder water. Sorry, I'm not experience with how to convert a hydrometer test result to teaspoons per gallon. I'm concerned about you not having a nitrate reading. If you have a better test kit, re-check the nitrates (NO3). You mention Hornwort but you don't say the tank is heavily planted so it would be unusual to not have some level of nitrates in a lightly planted tank. Do you have a better test kit, other than the dip strips? If no, and if you've been reading out here, WalMart sells two different brands for around $15.00 and they'll last you around a year of weekly or more testing so definitely get a master test kit instead of the dip strips when you run out. How is the water comparing to your tap water baseline? I remember your post about moving the Betta into your tank and you though the Dalmation Molly had a crush on him. Looks more like she wanted to CRUSH him. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie _____ _____ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31641	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: bear

I used to work for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service at Kodiak National Wilidfe Refuge and was a trainer for bear safety (although not the armed portion). If you want to know the truth about bears, the only resource bear biologists respect is a book called "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" (revised edition) by Stephen Herrero. Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your yard - after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in a stream just because you have a fishing license. On the more practical side you may only piss the bear off. What could follow is what is called a "provoked" mauling. Bears who are used to humans and want food aren't easily discouraged. Different animals react differently depending on their background and experience. For instance, in Alaska a "habituated" animal (used to people) bear, eagle or whatever, may eat from garbage while you stand right next to it. But an identical animal who lives 50 miles from the nearest town would make a large "beeline" around you so you would never see them or know they were there. The animals do not wear identification to allow people to tell if they will run off at a handclap or ignore you while you shoot off firecrackers. The biologists at our refuge did a number of studies where they watched humans and asked them if they had seen any bears at the O'Malley River. Often, though biologist could see both the people and bears at riverside from the mountain, the humans denied the presence of bears. So some bears do avoid humans assiduously. These are the kind who would run if they see you. Others, not so much. Note also there are extreme behavioral differences between black bears (ursus virginansis) and brown bears (ursus arctos). Only black bears stalk people with the intention of making a meal. Of course, in this group, I guess the real topic of interest was the salmon the bears were eating... but I know of no incidents of salmon mauling humans, either provoked or unprovoked.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31642	From: gardn4brds	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: white mold

I have 3 different types of live plants, 1 is a banana plant? the other 2 live off of the driftwood. I have low ish light in it and will want more plants to be kept towards the back of the tank to keep cleaning easier. I was doing the weekly water changes and I had guppies before but the American flag fish well were not friendly with them. I had massive amount of hairy algea on the diftwood and they took care of it. Yes it was a pleco and I got it as a baby and when it outgrew the tank I was going to bring it back to them had that arrangement already done. Ammonia(sp) is zero tested, and the ph was 7.5 I`ll have to retest everything today and post. Yes I plan on getting this all fixed before adding new fish as that would not be fair. I understand that gu[ppies breed but I`ll let nature take its course on that 1 tank is enough for me so far. This tank was set up for a year already till this problem. So does this mean I still have the fishless cycle to do?? Watching out for the ammonia will that rise? I was doing the removeal all of those things and having the water sit for at least 24 hours before doing water changes. I have a bio filter also. Now off to read those sites thanks. Jami --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Mold will grow in any body of water or where moisture is present... and it's > even more likely when there is no other competing ecology. > > Now, that said, let's back up a little. > > First and foremost, now that you've found this group, DO NOT EVER listen to > people at the pet store for advice. If they do suggest something, come > check it out here first. 95% of the stuff (chemicals, water treatments, > etc.) they sell does not work as advertised or is not needed 95% of the > time. > > The main thing you do need is a simple dechlorinator product. I use API's > Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They are both > more concentrated than their similarly priced competitors so you'll get a > lot more doses from those two brands. For example, with both of them, 1ml > treats 10 gallons where other brands might need 5ml or even 10ml to treat 10 > gallons. These two also treat both chlorine and chloramine and heavy metals > but they do not have all the other junk stuff in them like slime- this or > stress-that type products might have... which are not needed under normal > circumstances. > > Give us a list of all of the chemicals, meds, etc. that you have on hand now > so we can give you proper advice in what to do with them... and yes, one of > my thoughts involve the fish store employee bending over. LOL I meant for > them to tie their shoes.. not what you were thinking. LOL > > Before going out for more fish, you should start a "fishless cycle" on your > tank. You can get a bottle of plain ammonia (non-sudsing, non- scented) at > Ace Hardware or many other mom/pop type hardware stores. I'm not sure if > the big-box stores sell it. Some groceries still sell plain ammonia. > Here's a simple article > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html on how to fishless > cycle using a SeaChem Ammonia Alert so you don't have to do a lot of testing > but it's also a VERY good idea if you get a Master Test Kit that tests for > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. You can get either the API or > Tetratest-Laborette brands at Walmart for around $15.00. If you have a > PetsMart nearby, they will match their online prices (print the page) so the > API kit is around $15.00 there also. > > While you are fishless cycling the tank... 2 to 6 weeks and the mold in your > tank might actually help jumpstart things... you should go to my A to Z of > Fish Keeping page > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to- training.h > tml and take one or both of the free online Beginner's fish keeping > tutorials which will walk you step-by-step through all of the basics we will > be discussing out here. Feel free to come here and ask lots and lots of > questions on anything you do not understand. The tutorials links are about > 6" down from the top of the page and have RED "BEGINNER'S TUTORIALS" as the > caption to the paragraph. While on my A to Z page, also read and learn the > information in my article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as this is one > of the biggest mistakes made by newbie's... improper filter > maintenance/cleaning. > > In the next couple of weeks, while you are fishless cycling your tank, > getting it safe and ready for fish, you can start learning the basics and > deciding more so on what fish you want to have. > > Why did you have the two American Flag fish and the "sucker fish"? Both of > them are usually associated with algae eating chores which isn't needed on a > newly set up tank that is properly maintained. Further, the "sucker fish" > very well might have been a Common Pleco and they grow to 18"+ and need to > be in really BIG tanks... 75G+.. although some LFS (local fish stores) will > have a program where you can buy a juvi pleco and then return it every 6 > months to a year when it starts to get bigger and exchange it for a new juvi > pleco. > > Your tank is large enough for guppies but bear in mind that they are > prolific breeders so if you were hoping to keep most of the fry alive, you > would need a second tank... or you could leave it to nature on which fry > survive. > > Have you thought about live plants for your tank yet? If you were thinking > about using live plants, you could get your tank up and running quicker with > the plants while you are still learning the basics and deciding on your > fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gardn4brds > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:37 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] white mold > > I guess that is what it is I tried looking this up but can find nothing. SO > I hope you can all help me. > I noticed my fish were sick last month went for some treatment stuff at the > pet store and well they all died. > I saw the white mold on the rocks and diftwood and plant growing on it. > > So I caleared and scrubbed and left everything running. > It have been a month just running wiht no fish. Well the stuff is back. > White and growing on the rocks and plants and driftwood. > > What do I do now?? I`m ready to throw the towel in and just pack it all up. > > I wnated to get a step up filter system I ahve a 25 gallon tall tank and > just felt the filter was not getting the things on the bottom fo the tank > sucked in. > > What do you all recomend. > > In the tank I had 2 american flag fish, and a sucker fish, so it wasnt over > crowded. > I would like to have guppies when I redo if I redo agian. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 > Tested on: 10/21/2008 10:00:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 > Tested on: 10/21/2008 10:56:02 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31643	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: bear

I will certainly keep that in mind the next time I make a joke on an online forum ;) Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your yard - after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in a stream just because you have a fishing license. -----Original Message----- From: Diana Brooks <diana_brooks@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 9:38 am Subject: [AquaticLife] bear I used to work for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service at Kodiak National Wilidfe Refuge and was a trainer for bear safety (although not the armed portion). If you want to know the truth about bears, the only resource bear biologists respect is a book called "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" (revised edition) by Stephen Herrero. Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your yard - after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in a stream just because you have a fishing license. On the more practical side you may only piss the bear off. What could follow is what is called a "provoked" mauling. Bears who are used to humans and want food aren't easily discouraged. Different animals react differently depending on their background and experience. For instance, in Alaska a "habituated" animal (used to people) bear, eagle or whatever, may eat from garbage while you stand right next to it. But an identical animal who lives 50 miles from the nearest town would make a large "beeline" around you so you would never see them or know they were there. The animals do not wear identification to allow people to tell if they will run off at a handclap or ignore you while you shoot off firecrackers. The biologists at our refuge did a number of studies where they watched humans and asked them if they had seen any bears at the O'Malley River. Often, though biologist could see both the people and bears at riverside from the mountain, the humans denied the presence of bears. So some bears do avoid humans assiduously. These are the kind who would run if they see you. Others, not so much. Note also there are extreme behavioral differences between black bears (ursus virginansis) and brown bears (ursus arctos). Only black bears stalk people with the intention of making a meal. Of course, in this group, I guess the real topic of interest was the salmon the bears were eating... but I know of no incidents of salmon mauling humans, either provoked or unprovoked. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31644	From: Chris Owens	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Return of the 18" plecos

Well, I got a call last night, the plecos I rehomed were "not happy and could I come get them." The best I can figure is it simply wasn't home, the gold pleco almost jumped into the net for me to take it out and the other one was waiting it's turn and never even twitched a fit during the transfer from the tank to the travel cooler I use. The restaurant owner said that the fish never stopped, they either were darting around like they were crazed or would jump out of the tank at a moment's notice. I got them home and back into the tank they've been in for 20+ years and they swam over to a corner together, relaxed their dorsals and were just as happy as can be. My daughter swears they gave a sigh of relief after they settled in. LOL, I guess I have two large plecos for life now. :D I'm gonna need more tanks.... Chris in VA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31645	From: Chris Owens	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: bear

Well there goes my plan on paintballing the deer (aka long-legged rodents) so I could tell who the repeat offenders were in my backyard! Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > I will certainly keep that in mind the next time I make a joke on an online forum ;) > > > > > Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a > > bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in > > the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and > > local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your > > yard - after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer > > comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in > > a stream just because you have a fishing license. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Diana Brooks <diana_brooks@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 9:38 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] bear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to work for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service at Kodiak > > National Wilidfe Refuge and was a trainer for bear safety (although > > not the armed portion). If you want to know the truth about bears, > > the only resource bear biologists respect is a book called "Bear > > Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" (revised edition) by Stephen > > Herrero. > > > > Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a > > bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in > > the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and > > local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your > > yard - > after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer > > comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in > > a stream just because you have a fishing license. > > > > On the more practical side you may only piss the bear off. What > > could follow is what is called a "provoked" mauling. Bears who are > > used to humans and want food aren't easily discouraged. > > > > Different animals react differently depending on their background > > and experience. For instance, in Alaska a "habituated" animal (used > > to people) bear, eagle or whatever, may eat from garbage while you > > stand right next to it. But an identical animal who lives 50 miles > > from the nearest town would make a large "beeline" around you so you > > would never see them or know they were there. The animals do not > > wear identification to allow people to tell if they will run off at > > a handclap or ignore you while you shoot off firecrackers. > > > > The biologists at our refuge did a number of studies where they > > watched humans and asked them if they had seen any bears at the > > O'Malley River. Often, though biologist could see both the people > > and bears at riverside from the mountain, the humans denied the > > presence of bears. So some bears do avoid humans assiduously. These > > are the kind who would run if they see you. Others, not so much. > > Note also there are extreme behavioral differences between black > > bears (ursus virginansis) and brown bears (ursus arctos). > Only black > > bears stalk people with the intention of making a meal. > > > > Of course, in this group, I guess the real topic of interest was the > > salmon the bears were eating... but I know of no incidents of salmon > > mauling humans, either provoked or unprovoked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31646	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: white mold

You may have to re-cycle the tank. The nitrifying bacteria that eat the ammonia and nitrites as part of the nitrogen cycle will die off if they do not have a source of ammonia. The only way to test this would be to add a few drops (per gallon) of plain ammonia and test the water for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates in 12 and 24 hours to see if the ammonia is being converted. If it isn't, then you'll have to fishless cycle the tank to get it ready for fish again... or buy Dr. Tim's One And Only to do a 1-day cycle on the tank. There's a chance that you have/had enough detritus in your gravel that would keep putting out ammonia as it decays that your filters have some of the nitrifying bacteria still alive so it may be a very quick fishless cycle for you, but only adding some plain ammonia and testing will confirm this. Three plants, while helpful, will not handle the ammonia and nitrogenous waste from a stocked 25G tank.... maybe for a single fish, or a few small ones, but that's about it. For low-light and easy to grow plants, check out my latest blog article, "Planted Tank - So you want a planted tank! GREAT!!!", that I just finished typing... just for YOU! ;-) I've been meaning to do this for a while and decided to type out the short article instead of typing it all out for you here, since I am regularly giving out this information anyhow. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html If the link breaks, just go to my main blog link in my sig and it's the top blog article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardn4brds Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: white mold I have 3 different types of live plants, 1 is a banana plant? the other 2 live off of the driftwood. I have low ish light in it and will want more plants to be kept towards the back of the tank to keep cleaning easier. I was doing the weekly water changes and I had guppies before but the American flag fish well were not friendly with them. I had massive amount of hairy algea on the diftwood and they took care of it. Yes it was a pleco and I got it as a baby and when it outgrew the tank I was going to bring it back to them had that arrangement already done. Ammonia(sp) is zero tested, and the ph was 7.5 I`ll have to retest everything today and post. Yes I plan on getting this all fixed before adding new fish as that would not be fair. I understand that gu[ppies breed but I`ll let nature take its course on that 1 tank is enough for me so far. This tank was set up for a year already till this problem. So does this mean I still have the fishless cycle to do?? Watching out for the ammonia will that rise? I was doing the removeal all of those things and having the water sit for at least 24 hours before doing water changes. I have a bio filter also. Now off to read those sites thanks. Jami --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Mold will grow in any body of water or where moisture is present... and it's > even more likely when there is no other competing ecology. > > Now, that said, let's back up a little. > > First and foremost, now that you've found this group, DO NOT EVER listen to > people at the pet store for advice. If they do suggest something, come > check it out here first. 95% of the stuff (chemicals, water treatments, > etc.) they sell does not work as advertised or is not needed 95% of the > time. > > The main thing you do need is a simple dechlorinator product. I use API's > Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They are both > more concentrated than their similarly priced competitors so you'll get a > lot more doses from those two brands. For example, with both of them, 1ml > treats 10 gallons where other brands might need 5ml or even 10ml to treat 10 > gallons. These two also treat both chlorine and chloramine and heavy metals > but they do not have all the other junk stuff in them like slime- this or > stress-that type products might have... which are not needed under normal > circumstances. > > Give us a list of all of the chemicals, meds, etc. that you have on hand now > so we can give you proper advice in what to do with them... and yes, one of > my thoughts involve the fish store employee bending over. LOL I meant for > them to tie their shoes.. not what you were thinking. LOL > > Before going out for more fish, you should start a "fishless cycle" on your > tank. You can get a bottle of plain ammonia (non-sudsing, non- scented) at > Ace Hardware or many other mom/pop type hardware stores. I'm not sure if > the big-box stores sell it. Some groceries still sell plain ammonia. > Here's a simple article > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html > <http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html> on how to fishless > cycle using a SeaChem Ammonia Alert so you don't have to do a lot of testing > but it's also a VERY good idea if you get a Master Test Kit that tests for > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. You can get either the API or > Tetratest-Laborette brands at Walmart for around $15.00. If you have a > PetsMart nearby, they will match their online prices (print the page) so the > API kit is around $15.00 there also. > > While you are fishless cycling the tank... 2 to 6 weeks and the mold in your > tank might actually help jumpstart things... you should go to my A to Z of > Fish Keeping page > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to-> training.h > tml and take one or both of the free online Beginner's fish keeping > tutorials which will walk you step-by-step through all of the basics we will > be discussing out here. Feel free to come here and ask lots and lots of > questions on anything you do not understand. The tutorials links are about > 6" down from the top of the page and have RED "BEGINNER'S TUTORIALS" as the > caption to the paragraph. While on my A to Z page, also read and learn the > information in my article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as this is one > of the biggest mistakes made by newbie's... improper filter > maintenance/cleaning. > > In the next couple of weeks, while you are fishless cycling your tank, > getting it safe and ready for fish, you can start learning the basics and > deciding more so on what fish you want to have. > > Why did you have the two American Flag fish and the "sucker fish"? Both of > them are usually associated with algae eating chores which isn't needed on a > newly set up tank that is properly maintained. Further, the "sucker fish" > very well might have been a Common Pleco and they grow to 18"+ and need to > be in really BIG tanks... 75G+.. although some LFS (local fish stores) will > have a program where you can buy a juvi pleco and then return it every 6 > months to a year when it starts to get bigger and exchange it for a new juvi > pleco. > > Your tank is large enough for guppies but bear in mind that they are > prolific breeders so if you were hoping to keep most of the fry alive, you > would need a second tank... or you could leave it to nature on which fry > survive. > > Have you thought about live plants for your tank yet? If you were thinking > about using live plants, you could get your tank up and running quicker with > the plants while you are still learning the basics and deciding on your > fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of gardn4brds > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:37 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] white mold > > I guess that is what it is I tried looking this up but can find nothing. SO > I hope you can all help me. > I noticed my fish were sick last month went for some treatment stuff at the > pet store and well they all died. > I saw the white mold on the rocks and diftwood and plant growing on it. > > So I caleared and scrubbed and left everything running. > It have been a month just running wiht no fish. Well the stuff is back. > White and growing on the rocks and plants and driftwood. > > What do I do now?? I`m ready to throw the towel in and just pack it all up. > > I wnated to get a step up filter system I ahve a 25 gallon tall tank and > just felt the filter was not getting the things on the bottom fo the tank > sucked in. > > What do you all recomend. > > In the tank I had 2 american flag fish, and a sucker fish, so it wasnt over > crowded. > I would like to have guppies when I redo if I redo agian. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 > 10:00:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 > 10:56:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 12:01:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 12:31:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31647	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: bear

Hey Mike, If all I have is a paintball gun, I'm gonna have to use it, although it's not my weapon of choice! I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 any day! ;-) Holding onto my guns and religion! Oh yeah... and a redneck too! LOL (Those folks following the news will understand those lines! I didn't realize the great folks in Pennsylvania had so much in common with us southerners down here!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 12:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] bear I will certainly keep that in mind the next time I make a joke on an online forum ;) Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your yard - after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in a stream just because you have a fishing license. -----Original Message----- From: Diana Brooks <diana_brooks@... <mailto:diana_brooks%40comcast.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 9:38 am Subject: [AquaticLife] bear I used to work for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service at Kodiak National Wilidfe Refuge and was a trainer for bear safety (although not the armed portion). If you want to know the truth about bears, the only resource bear biologists respect is a book called "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" (revised edition) by Stephen Herrero. Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your yard - after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in a stream just because you have a fishing license. On the more practical side you may only piss the bear off. What could follow is what is called a "provoked" mauling. Bears who are used to humans and want food aren't easily discouraged. Different animals react differently depending on their background and experience. For instance, in Alaska a "habituated" animal (used to people) bear, eagle or whatever, may eat from garbage while you stand right next to it. But an identical animal who lives 50 miles from the nearest town would make a large "beeline" around you so you would never see them or know they were there. The animals do not wear identification to allow people to tell if they will run off at a handclap or ignore you while you shoot off firecrackers. The biologists at our refuge did a number of studies where they watched humans and asked them if they had seen any bears at the O'Malley River. Often, though biologist could see both the people and bears at riverside from the mountain, the humans denied the presence of bears. So some bears do avoid humans assiduously. These are the kind who would run if they see you. Others, not so much. Note also there are extreme behavioral differences between black bears (ursus virginansis) and brown bears (ursus arctos). Only black bears stalk people with the intention of making a meal. Of course, in this group, I guess the real topic of interest was the salmon the bears were eating... but I know of no incidents of salmon mauling humans, either provoked or unprovoked. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 12:37:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31648	From: bill1433	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: bear

Some do!� We got a few of those �You�ll Shoot Your Eye Out� (Christmas Story) types.� We have some that think they�re rodeo riders complete with the over-size belt-buckles�and heads to match under the cowboy hats, a few with those specially designed pick-ups trucks that are about 5 � feet off the ground, we have all types and in all shapes and sizes. � UNFORTUNTELY, so do the bears!� Pick-up trucks not withstanding! � The lady speaks the truth.� But I like my rules better, just don�t mess with them! � Bill --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] bear To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 1:37 PM Hey Mike, If all I have is a paintball gun, I'm gonna have to use it, although it's not my weapon of choice! I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 any day! ;-) Holding onto my guns and religion! Oh yeah... and a redneck too! LOL (Those folks following the news will understand those lines! I didn't realize the great folks in Pennsylvania had so much in common with us southerners down here!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 12:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] bear I will certainly keep that in mind the next time I make a joke on an online forum ;) Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your yard - after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in a stream just because you have a fishing license. -----Original Message----- From: Diana Brooks <diana_brooks@ comcast.net <mailto:diana_ brooks%40comcast .net> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 9:38 am Subject: [AquaticLife] bear I used to work for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service at Kodiak National Wilidfe Refuge and was a trainer for bear safety (although not the armed portion). If you want to know the truth about bears, the only resource bear biologists respect is a book called "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" (revised edition) by Stephen Herrero. Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your yard - after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in a stream just because you have a fishing license. On the more practical side you may only piss the bear off. What could follow is what is called a "provoked" mauling. Bears who are used to humans and want food aren't easily discouraged. Different animals react differently depending on their background and experience. For instance, in Alaska a "habituated" animal (used to people) bear, eagle or whatever, may eat from garbage while you stand right next to it. But an identical animal who lives 50 miles from the nearest town would make a large "beeline" around you so you would never see them or know they were there. The animals do not wear identification to allow people to tell if they will run off at a handclap or ignore you while you shoot off firecrackers. The biologists at our refuge did a number of studies where they watched humans and asked them if they had seen any bears at the O'Malley River. Often, though biologist could see both the people and bears at riverside from the mountain, the humans denied the presence of bears. So some bears do avoid humans assiduously. These are the kind who would run if they see you. Others, not so much. Note also there are extreme behavioral differences between black bears (ursus virginansis) and brown bears (ursus arctos). Only black bears stalk people with the intention of making a meal. Of course, in this group, I guess the real topic of interest was the salmon the bears were eating... but I know of no incidents of salmon mauling humans, either provoked or unprovoked. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 12:37:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: bear

Just use one of them invisible glow-in-the-dark paintball pellets (or special glasses needed) to single out the repeat oversized rodents! lol Of course, your other option would be to make room in the freezer for lots of deer meat. I hear Sarah P. can field dress it for you and I hear she'll be in your area a lot in the next couple of weeks! ;-) (winkin for Sarah!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bear Well there goes my plan on paintballing the deer (aka long-legged rodents) so I could tell who the repeat offenders were in my backyard! Chris in VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > > I will certainly keep that in mind the next time I make a joke on an online forum ;) > > > > > Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a > > bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in > > the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and > > local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your > > yard - after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer > > comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in > > a stream just because you have a fishing license. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Diana Brooks <diana_brooks@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 9:38 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] bear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to work for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service at Kodiak > > National Wilidfe Refuge and was a trainer for bear safety (although > > not the armed portion). If you want to know the truth about bears, > > the only resource bear biologists respect is a book called "Bear > > Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" (revised edition) by Stephen > > Herrero. > > > > Depending on location you may be cited or even jailed for shooting a > > bear with a paintball. Although not lethal it can be considered in > > the legal term, harassing wildlife. You need to check state and > > local laws, including hunting seasons. These laws apply even in your > > yard - > after all, deer hunters have to follow regs even if a deer > > comes in their yard out of season. And you cannot throw dynamite in > > a stream just because you have a fishing license. > > > > On the more practical side you may only piss the bear off. What > > could follow is what is called a "provoked" mauling. Bears who are > > used to humans and want food aren't easily discouraged. > > > > Different animals react differently depending on their background > > and experience. For instance, in Alaska a "habituated" animal (used > > to people) bear, eagle or whatever, may eat from garbage while you > > stand right next to it. But an identical animal who lives 50 miles > > from the nearest town would make a large "beeline" around you so you > > would never see them or know they were there. The animals do not > > wear identification to allow people to tell if they will run off at > > a handclap or ignore you while you shoot off firecrackers. > > > > The biologists at our refuge did a number of studies where they > > watched humans and asked them if they had seen any bears at the > > O'Malley River. Often, though biologist could see both the people > > and bears at riverside from the mountain, the humans denied the > > presence of bears. So some bears do avoid humans assiduously. These > > are the kind who would run if they see you. Others, not so much. > > Note also there are extreme behavioral differences between black > > bears (ursus virginansis) and brown bears (ursus arctos). > Only black > > bears stalk people with the intention of making a meal. > > > > Of course, in this group, I guess the real topic of interest was the > > salmon the bears were eating... but I know of no incidents of salmon > > mauling humans, either provoked or unprovoked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 1:43:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 1:49:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31650	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Return of the 18" plecos

Did you test the other tanks water to see if their water was similar in water parameters to yours? Were there other fish in that other tank? I know you'll get more tanks so I'm not worried about your big guys/gals but I'm curious as to why the fish were stressed so much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 12:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Return of the 18" plecos Well, I got a call last night, the plecos I rehomed were "not happy and could I come get them." The best I can figure is it simply wasn't home, the gold pleco almost jumped into the net for me to take it out and the other one was waiting it's turn and never even twitched a fit during the transfer from the tank to the travel cooler I use. The restaurant owner said that the fish never stopped, they either were darting around like they were crazed or would jump out of the tank at a moment's notice. I got them home and back into the tank they've been in for 20+ years and they swam over to a corner together, relaxed their dorsals and were just as happy as can be. My daughter swears they gave a sigh of relief after they settled in. LOL, I guess I have two large plecos for life now. :D I'm gonna need more tanks.... Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 1:57:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31651	From: hank voss	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: white mold

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "gardn4brds" <gardn4brds@...> wrote: Jami: Im puzzled about he white mold that you said you have.I can understand the mold on the driftwood(if its real driftwood)not always the case.If its on the banana plant i can understand that too, a lot of times when the tuber (banana)dies it will grow fungus on it,But fungus on a scrubed rock puzzles me.The only way for fungus to form on a clean rock is if there is some kind of imbeded organic material in it.What kindof rocks are they?? By the way banana plants like quite a bit of light Regards Hank ================================== > I have 3 different types of live plants, 1 is a banana plant? the > other 2 live off of the driftwood. I have low ish light in it and > will want more plants to be kept towards the back of the tank to keep > cleaning easier. > > I was doing the weekly water changes and I had guppies before but the > American flag fish well were not friendly with them. > > I had massive amount of hairy algea on the diftwood and they took > care of it. > > Yes it was a pleco and I got it as a baby and when it outgrew the > tank I was going to bring it back to them had that arrangement > already done. > > Ammonia(sp) is zero tested, and the ph was 7.5 I`ll have to retest > everything today and post. > Yes I plan on getting this all fixed before adding new fish as that > would not be fair. > > I understand that gu[ppies breed but I`ll let nature take its course > on that 1 tank is enough for me so far. > > This tank was set up for a year already till this problem. So does > this mean I still have the fishless cycle to do?? > Watching out for the ammonia will that rise? > > I was doing the removeal all of those things and having the water sit > for at least 24 hours before doing water changes. > > I have a bio filter also. > > Now off to read those sites thanks. > Jami > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Mold will grow in any body of water or where moisture is present... > and it's > > even more likely when there is no other competing ecology. > > > > Now, that said, let's back up a little. > > > > First and foremost, now that you've found this group, DO NOT EVER > listen to > > people at the pet store for advice. If they do suggest something, > come > > check it out here first. 95% of the stuff (chemicals, water > treatments, > > etc.) they sell does not work as advertised or is not needed 95% of > the > > time. > > > > The main thing you do need is a simple dechlorinator product. I > use API's > > Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They > are both > > more concentrated than their similarly priced competitors so you'll > get a > > lot more doses from those two brands. For example, with both of > them, 1ml > > treats 10 gallons where other brands might need 5ml or even 10ml to > treat 10 > > gallons. These two also treat both chlorine and chloramine and > heavy metals > > but they do not have all the other junk stuff in them like slime- > this or > > stress-that type products might have... which are not needed under > normal > > circumstances. > > > > Give us a list of all of the chemicals, meds, etc. that you have on > hand now > > so we can give you proper advice in what to do with them... and > yes, one of > > my thoughts involve the fish store employee bending over. LOL I > meant for > > them to tie their shoes.. not what you were thinking. LOL > > > > Before going out for more fish, you should start a "fishless cycle" > on your > > tank. You can get a bottle of plain ammonia (non-sudsing, non- > scented) at > > Ace Hardware or many other mom/pop type hardware stores. I'm not > sure if > > the big-box stores sell it. Some groceries still sell plain > ammonia. > > Here's a simple article > > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html on how to > fishless > > cycle using a SeaChem Ammonia Alert so you don't have to do a lot > of testing > > but it's also a VERY good idea if you get a Master Test Kit that > tests for > > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. You can get either the API or > > Tetratest-Laborette brands at Walmart for around $15.00. If you > have a > > PetsMart nearby, they will match their online prices (print the > page) so the > > API kit is around $15.00 there also. > > > > While you are fishless cycling the tank... 2 to 6 weeks and the > mold in your > > tank might actually help jumpstart things... you should go to my A > to Z of > > Fish Keeping page > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to- > training.h > > tml and take one or both of the free online Beginner's fish keeping > > tutorials which will walk you step-by-step through all of the > basics we will > > be discussing out here. Feel free to come here and ask lots and > lots of > > questions on anything you do not understand. The tutorials links > are about > > 6" down from the top of the page and have RED "BEGINNER'S > TUTORIALS" as the > > caption to the paragraph. While on my A to Z page, also read and > learn the > > information in my article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as this > is one > > of the biggest mistakes made by newbie's... improper filter > > maintenance/cleaning. > > > > In the next couple of weeks, while you are fishless cycling your > tank, > > getting it safe and ready for fish, you can start learning the > basics and > > deciding more so on what fish you want to have. > > > > Why did you have the two American Flag fish and the "sucker fish"? > Both of > > them are usually associated with algae eating chores which isn't > needed on a > > newly set up tank that is properly maintained. Further, > the "sucker fish" > > very well might have been a Common Pleco and they grow to 18"+ and > need to > > be in really BIG tanks... 75G+.. although some LFS (local fish > stores) will > > have a program where you can buy a juvi pleco and then return it > every 6 > > months to a year when it starts to get bigger and exchange it for a > new juvi > > pleco. > > > > Your tank is large enough for guppies but bear in mind that they are > > prolific breeders so if you were hoping to keep most of the fry > alive, you > > would need a second tank... or you could leave it to nature on > which fry > > survive. > > > > Have you thought about live plants for your tank yet? If you were > thinking > > about using live plants, you could get your tank up and running > quicker with > > the plants while you are still learning the basics and deciding on > your > > fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of gardn4brds > > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:37 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] white mold > > > > I guess that is what it is I tried looking this up but can find > nothing. SO > > I hope you can all help me. > > I noticed my fish were sick last month went for some treatment > stuff at the > > pet store and well they all died. > > I saw the white mold on the rocks and diftwood and plant growing on > it. > > > > So I caleared and scrubbed and left everything running. > > It have been a month just running wiht no fish. Well the stuff is > back. > > White and growing on the rocks and plants and driftwood. > > > > What do I do now?? I`m ready to throw the towel in and just pack it > all up. > > > > I wnated to get a step up filter system I ahve a 25 gallon tall > tank and > > just felt the filter was not getting the things on the bottom fo > the tank > > sucked in. > > > > What do you all recomend. > > > > In the tank I had 2 american flag fish, and a sucker fish, so it > wasnt over > > crowded. > > I would like to have guppies when I redo if I redo agian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 > > Tested on: 10/21/2008 10:00:17 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 > > Tested on: 10/21/2008 10:56:02 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31652	From: Lisa	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Shark tanks

What would be the minimum tank size requirement be for a couple of ... Bala sharks or Red tailed black sharks or Rainbow sharks Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31653	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Shark tanks

Bala sharks I would say at least a 75 because of my personal ventures and at least a 55 for the redtailed sharks and a 30 to 40 for the rainbows. I never got the rainbow sharks to get very big. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:21:06 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Shark tanks What would be the minimum tank size requirement be for a couple of ... Bala sharks or Red tailed black sharks or Rainbow sharks Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31654	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Shark tanks

I'll cover the Bala Shark first since it's the big boy on the list... and please note that these types of fish should usually only be kept with ONLY one to a tank as they can be very aggressive to conspecifics - their own kind - and sometimes to any other fish that might resemble them. I wanted to mention this since you say "a couple". If you really wanted to put more than one in a tank, the tank size would have to be considerably larger to give them each a chance to establish their own territory. Mongabay profile for Bala Shark - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Balantiocheilus_melanopterus.html - recommends at least a 6' long tank with at least 100G for the fish at 10". My own stocking formula for LARGE FISH such as a Bala Shark - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html - (START SNIP) Large Fish (including Oscars, Common Pleco's, Comets and Common Goldfish) - 5 Gallons per adult size inch for fish over 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 80" long and UP depending on expected adult size of fish using the basis of 8X longer than the longest expected adult sized fish in the tank. Koi should really be in a large pond since most aquariums are not large enough unless you have a HUGE tank. (END SNIP) So... for a full sized non-stunted Bala Shark that reaches it's potential of 16", using the 8X parameter, the tank should be 128" long (12'+) or at least the lower 6X parameter which would still be 96" long (8'). Using 5G per expected adult sized inch would equal 80G but since the minimum tank size should be at least 8' long, it would be at least a 180G to 300G tank, using the GlassCages tank dimensions here http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat <http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=41> &lCatID=41 or http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat <http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=2> &lCatID=2. Now, the Red-tailed Black Shark, which is a much, much smaller "shark" type fish growing to only around 6". http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_bicolor.html http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/cyprinids/rts.html http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile10.html http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/mix/redtailsharks.php So this is a much easier fish to plan for and could more easily be housed in normal sized tanks like a 55G or even a 40G long or 40G breeder tank. Rainbow Sharks grow to around the same size as the Red Tailed Shark so they would do fine in similar sized tanks. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_frenatus.html Please read over the profiles listed for each for more information, suggested companion fish, etc. and remember that the minimum tank sizes or gallon volumes are for a single fish. If you plan on adding a lot more fish or especially bigger fish, the minimum tank sizes and gallon volume recommendations would go up proportionately. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Shark tanks What would be the minimum tank size requirement be for a couple of ... Bala sharks or Red tailed black sharks or Rainbow sharks Thanks _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 7:42:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31655	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Return of the 18" plecos

I took a sample of their water with me, the temp was a bit warmer than I run mine by a few degrees, it has more sunlight than mine, but the water parameters were within a point or two of mine when I tested it but nothing that should have caused their behavior unless each little nuance all together may have done it.  I dunno, I just went and checked on them and they were slowly cruising the tank together after eating a large square of algae salad and a huge spinach leaf.  The gold pleco even swam up to the top to be stroked so who knows, I guess they are home now.  (smile)   Chris in VA --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Return of the 18" plecos To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 2:57 PM Did you test the other tanks water to see if their water was similar in water parameters to yours? Were there other fish in that other tank? I know you'll get more tanks so I'm not worried about your big guys/gals but I'm curious as to why the fish were stressed so much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 12:15 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Return of the 18" plecos Well, I got a call last night, the plecos I rehomed were "not happy and could I come get them." The best I can figure is it simply wasn't home, the gold pleco almost jumped into the net for me to take it out and the other one was waiting it's turn and never even twitched a fit during the transfer from the tank to the travel cooler I use. The restaurant owner said that the fish never stopped, they either were darting around like they were crazed or would jump out of the tank at a moment's notice. I got them home and back into the tank they've been in for 20+ years and they swam over to a corner together, relaxed their dorsals and were just as happy as can be. My daughter swears they gave a sigh of relief after they settled in. LOL, I guess I have two large plecos for life now. :D I'm gonna need more tanks.... Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 1:57:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: Return of the 18" plecos

Maybe the lobsters that kept disappearing from the lobster tank got them worried. Maybe they were worried they'd end up on the menu too! Did anyone say "Lemon-pepper Pleco" or "Blackened Pleco"? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Return of the 18" plecos I took a sample of their water with me, the temp was a bit warmer than I run mine by a few degrees, it has more sunlight than mine, but the water parameters were within a point or two of mine when I tested it but nothing that should have caused their behavior unless each little nuance all together may have done it. I dunno, I just went and checked on them and they were slowly cruising the tank together after eating a large square of algae salad and a huge spinach leaf. The gold pleco even swam up to the top to be stroked so who knows, I guess they are home now. (smile) Chris in VA --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Return of the 18" plecos To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 2:57 PM Did you test the other tanks water to see if their water was similar in water parameters to yours? Were there other fish in that other tank? I know you'll get more tanks so I'm not worried about your big guys/gals but I'm curious as to why the fish were stressed so much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 12:15 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Return of the 18" plecos Well, I got a call last night, the plecos I rehomed were "not happy and could I come get them." The best I can figure is it simply wasn't home, the gold pleco almost jumped into the net for me to take it out and the other one was waiting it's turn and never even twitched a fit during the transfer from the tank to the travel cooler I use. The restaurant owner said that the fish never stopped, they either were darting around like they were crazed or would jump out of the tank at a moment's notice. I got them home and back into the tank they've been in for 20+ years and they swam over to a corner together, relaxed their dorsals 20+ and were just as happy as can be. My daughter swears they gave a sigh of relief after they settled in. LOL, I guess I have two large plecos for life now. :D I'm gonna need more tanks.... Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 8:34:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31657	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: I'm almost to my breaking point!

So I made a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta. I figured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add in with the two mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seen anything like it before. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not a dead one in a single tank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by the bucket and slowly adding my water. Everything is going great. morning one, three neons are dead. moring two, one more dies and this morning one more. So this leaves to me one neon and one betta with the two mollies. I have tested and retested my water and everything is perfect! NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp 77. Then before I go to work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He was just kinda sitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were getting fin rot (blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the old tank water and 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallon tank and stays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home from work... he's dead! The tank water is the exact same readings as the other one. I dont get it. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, I only have three left and I'm too scared to check on the other neon. I figure with no other neons around he will probably go too. I did examine the betta before I disposed of him and it looked like the bottom of his face with pushed out. Almost like a liver or somthing sticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm just hoping my mollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill no clampped fins or anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring the Cichlids tomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm so scared. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31658	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

Without quarantining the new fish, it's harder to tell what might have went wrong. What were the water parameters for the water at the fish store? It could be osmotic, temperature or pH related shock which will cause those kinds of mortality rates more likely than a pathogen but... your current fish/tank could have a pathogen that your current fish have built up an immunity or resistance to that might have quickly harmed the new fish. The new fish would be stressed already due to the shipping, transporting, acclimating, etc., so their immune systems were already weakened. Further, the new fish could have brought some new pathogen in with them that might have caused harm to your Betta. The Betta's appearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died. Look at online photos of a Betta flaring and see if this is what yours was doing. Do you have a mirror or anything next to the smaller tank that you moved the Betta to? While it's "cute" or "interesting" to see Betta's flare, it's also a stressor to them and too much of it is likely not good for their health, IMO. How old was the Betta? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:01 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point! So I made a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta. I figured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add in with the two mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seen anything like it before. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not a dead one in a single tank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by the bucket and slowly adding my water. Everything is going great. morning one, three neons are dead. moring two, one more dies and this morning one more. So this leaves to me one neon and one betta with the two mollies. I have tested and retested my water and everything is perfect! NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp 77. Then before I go to work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He was just kinda sitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were getting fin rot (blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the old tank water and 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallon tank and stays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home from work... he's dead! The tank water is the exact same readings as the other one. I dont get it. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, I only have three left and I'm too scared to check on the other neon. I figure with no other neons around he will probably go too. I did examine the betta before I disposed of him and it looked like the bottom of his face with pushed out. Almost like a liver or somthing sticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm just hoping my mollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill no clampped fins or anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring the Cichlids tomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm so scared. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:06:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:16:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31659	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/21/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

I did not test the LFS's water. I jsut assumed by acclimating them slowly it wouldnt matter. I got the betta on the same day as the neons so it would have still been young. It does look like he was flairing at the time of death. There is no mirror around, maybe the reflection from the tank? The idea of my current fish being used to a parasite I have makes since. Would it be possible to maybe have somthing in our city's water? This may have been the problem with the goldfish and shark? Should I treat my 10 gallon with an anti parasite just incase? My female molly is pregnant so I didnt know what would happen. I have some maracyn 2 I could use. I just did a 20% water change on sunday. Everything from the new water was the same as the old, temp ph and such. sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:16:05 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point! Without quarantining the new fish, it's harder to tell what might have wentwrong.What were the water parameters for the water at the fish store? It could beosmotic, temperature or pH related shock which will cause those kinds ofmortality rates more likely than a pathogen but... your current fish/tankcould have a pathogen that your current fish have built up an immunity orresistance to that might have quickly harmed the new fish. The new fish would be stressed already due to the shipping, transporting,acclimating, etc., so their immune systems were already weakened. Further,the new fish could have brought some new pathogen in with them that mighthave caused harm to your Betta.The Betta's appearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died. Lookat online photos of a Betta flaring and see if this is what yours was doing.Do you have a mirror or anything next to the smaller tank that you moved theBetta to? While it's "cute" or "interesting" to see Betta's flare, it'salso a stressor to them and too much of it is likely not good for theirhealth, IMO. How old was the Betta?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:01 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!So I made a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta. Ifigured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add in with thetwo mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seen anything like itbefore. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not a dead one in a singletank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by the bucket and slowly adding mywater. Everything is going great. morning one, three neons are dead. moringtwo, one more dies and this morning one more. So this leaves to me one neonand one betta with the two mollies. I have tested and retested my water andeverything is perfect! NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp 77.Then before I go to work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He was justkinda sitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were getting finrot (blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the old tank waterand 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallon tank andstays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home from work... he'sdead! The tank water is the exact same readings as the other one. I dont getit. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, I only have three left andI'm too scared to check on the other neon. I figure with no other neonsaround he will probably go too. I did examine the betta before I disposed ofhim and it looked like the bottom of his face with pushed out. Almost like aliver or somthing sticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm justhoping my mollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill no clamppedfins or anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring the Cichlidstomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm so scared.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:06:03 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:16:05 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31660	From: greychildren	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

hi Sara As a beginner i learn that tetras are very sensitive and fragile fish. i remember wend i purchase 20 tetras 5 head and tail 5 neon 5 black neon and 5 Congo withing hours i lost 6 of them that was 4 months ago i only have left 3 neon's 1 black neon and 4 head and tail. come to find out they had bout ick into my tank, and tetras are very sensitive to ick treatment. After doing some research neon are over bread in poor conditions cause lots of stress and poor stock. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Without quarantining the new fish, it's harder to tell what might have went > wrong. > > What were the water parameters for the water at the fish store? It could be > osmotic, temperature or pH related shock which will cause those kinds of > mortality rates more likely than a pathogen but... your current fish/tank > could have a pathogen that your current fish have built up an immunity or > resistance to that might have quickly harmed the new fish. > > The new fish would be stressed already due to the shipping, transporting, > acclimating, etc., so their immune systems were already weakened. Further, > the new fish could have brought some new pathogen in with them that might > have caused harm to your Betta. > > The Betta's appearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died. Look > at online photos of a Betta flaring and see if this is what yours was doing. > Do you have a mirror or anything next to the smaller tank that you moved the > Betta to? While it's "cute" or "interesting" to see Betta's flare, it's > also a stressor to them and too much of it is likely not good for their > health, IMO. How old was the Betta? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Sarah Huss > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:01 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point! > > > So I made a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta. I > figured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add in with the > two mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seen anything like it > before. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not a dead one in a single > tank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by the bucket and slowly adding my > water. Everything is going great. morning one, three neons are dead. moring > two, one more dies and this morning one more. So this leaves to me one neon > and one betta with the two mollies. I have tested and retested my water and > everything is perfect! NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp 77. > Then before I go to work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He was just > kinda sitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were getting fin > rot (blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the old tank water > and 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallon tank and > stays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home from work... he's > dead! The tank water is the exact same readings as the other one. I dont get > it. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, I only have three left and > I'm too scared to check on the other neon. I figure with no other neons > around he will probably go too. I did examine the betta before I disposed of > him and it looked like the bottom of his face with pushed out. Almost like a > liver or somthing sticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm just > hoping my mollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill no clampped > fins or anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring the Cichlids > tomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm so scared. > > Sarah > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If > someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared > the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever > comes." -unknown > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 > Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:06:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 > Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:16:05 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31662	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

Well, depending on how much of a difference there may have been, it might have taken much more than a slow acclimation for them. I'm not sure how long you took but for major changes in water parameters, even a drip acclimation might be too much, too fast. When changing water parameters dramatically, it could take days or even a week. For example, if I was moving my fish from my usually hard water with a high pH that they've been in for years, and I was moving to an area with soft water and low pH, I' probably bring a 50G drum or two of my water with me and then do a small PWC each day and then replace the water with some of the new local water and some of my water from the drums. The main thing is pH shock but the other osmotic issues like GH, KH, salinity levels, etc., all come into play as well. You don't want to change the pH by more than 0.2 per day as a general rule and this should be stuck to more strictly after moving fish since they will already be stressed, so if you are going from a pH of 8.0 to 7.0 (or one full pH point), I would take up to five days to make that kind of change. This would also spread the osmotic changes for all of the other water parameters over five days as well. If I recall correctly, you are on well water. It's even more important for you to know the incoming fishes water parameters so you can plan for changing them over to your water. It's not like for me where everyone around me has the same water parameters in the "big city" so it's most likely the fish that I get from my LFS or PetsMart, etc., will have been living in similar water parameters to mine. I still test for pH, GH and KH at a store that I might be buying from the first time to verify that they aren't filtering their water through some advance filter system that might be removing all of the good stuff I have in my tap water that my fish are used to. I did want to clear up something. Fish can't really get "used to" a parasite like they would build up an immunity or resistance to a bacteria... although there are some very small parasites that they do seem to tolerate more easily than others and possibly even live in symbiosis with. I'll use us humans as an example here. A leach is a parasite and while I'm sure there are some areas of the world where someone may get a leech on them and not even worry about it (they were even used in medical procedures in the old days and are still probably used in some areas for medicinal purposes), but if you or I came out of our local swimming hole with leeches on us, we'd likely freak out a little bit and want the damned things off of us as quickly as possible. Same with fleas and ticks on us or our pets. So, if you do have a parasite that is adverse to your fish, you should work to get rid of it. Even if your own fish may tolerate it, it's still not good for them and it may stress out new fish too much, too fast, with all the other stressors they are having to go through with being shipped and sold around the world sometimes. On my blog page about "Disease & Illness...", I have a section on Stress with links to 6-7 articles talking about the various stressors that we sometimes inadvertently put on our fish. Right above that section, I have a couple of articles about non-disease issues that may make our fish look like they are sick or cause them to die but it's not a disease or pathogen at all. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:13 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point! I did not test the LFS's water. I jsut assumed by acclimating them slowly it wouldnt matter. I got the betta on the same day as the neons so it would have still been young. It does look like he was flairing at the time of death. There is no mirror around, maybe the reflection from the tank? The idea of my current fish being used to a parasite I have makes since. Would it be possible to maybe have somthing in our city's water? This may have been the problem with the goldfish and shark? Should I treat my 10 gallon with an anti parasite just incase? My female molly is pregnant so I didnt know what would happen. I have some maracyn 2 I could use. I just did a 20% water change on sunday. Everything from the new water was the same as the old, temp ph and such. sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:16:05 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point! Without quarantining the new fish, it's harder to tell what might have wentwrong.What were the water parameters for the water at the fish store? It could beosmotic, temperature or pH related shock which will cause those kinds ofmortality rates more likely than a pathogen but... your current fish/tankcould have a pathogen that your current fish have built up an immunity orresistance to that might have quickly harmed the new fish. The new fish would be stressed already due to the shipping, transporting,acclimating, etc., so their immune systems were already weakened. Further,the new fish could have brought some new pathogen in with them that mighthave caused harm to your Betta.The Betta's appearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died. Lookat online photos of a Betta flaring and see if this is what yours was doing.Do you have a mirror or anything next to the smaller tank that you moved theBetta to? While it's "cute" or "interesting" to see Betta's flare, it'salso a stressor to them and too much of it is likely not good for theirhealth, IMO. How old was the Betta?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:01 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!So I made a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta. Ifigured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add in with thetwo mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seen anything like itbefore. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not a dead one in a singletank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by the bucket and slowly adding mywater. Everything is going great. morning one, three neons are dead. moringtwo, one more dies and this morning one more. So this leaves to me one neonand one betta with the two mollies. I have tested and retested my water andeverything is perfect! NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp 77.Then before I go to work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He was justkinda sitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were getting finrot (blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the old tank waterand 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallon tank andstays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home from work... he'sdead! The tank water is the exact same readings as the other one. I dont getit. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, I only have three left andI'm too scared to check on the other neon. I figure with no other neonsaround he will probably go too. I did examine the betta before I disposed ofhim and it looked like the bottom of his face with pushed out. Almost like aliver or somthing sticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm justhoping my mollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill no clamppedfins or anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring the Cichlidstomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm so scared.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknown _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 9:28:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31663	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: foul smelling water

Yep... the good old smell test will tell you a lot about your tank. It should smell earthy but clean... not foul or too fishy smelling. Have you been vacuuming your gravel good enough? This is often a source of foul water when there is too much detritus (fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) down in the gravel decaying. What about filter maintenance? (See my blog article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning"). Have you had a fish or critter come up missing recently that could be hidden and decaying? Did you use any kind of snail killing chemicals (normally advised against) that might have killed too many, too fast? I'm presuming you know that your ammonia level should be 0.0ppm and any other kind of ammonia reading means something is not right with your tank. Has the tank been fully cycled in the past where you had 0.0ppm levels for ammonia and nitrite? You say your nitrite and nitrate are at perfect level but what are the actual numbers? It helps us much more to know more details. Is your tap water baseline pH close to 6.8 or is it much higher normally? Have you added any meds or chemicals to the tank? Many of them have what could be considered foul smells to them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 5:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] foul smelling water Hey guys i was wondering newbie question here My ammonia level is at 0.02 nitrite and nitrate are at perfect level and is at perfect Ph is at 6.8. but there is this foul dirt smell coming from the tank is this normal? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 9:42:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31664	From: gardn4brds	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: white mold

Just the rocks you get at a pet store to put on the bottom of a tank. This white mold fungus stuff is what I first saw ont he rocks then the fish died in only a matter of hours. I will do the fishless cycle again and get more plants but why is it slimy and covering the driftwood and plant(I bought these at a pet store wiht the plants growing in them) Jami --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "gardn4brds" <gardn4brds@> > wrote: > > Jami: > Im puzzled about he white mold that you said you have.I can > understand the mold on the driftwood(if its real driftwood)not always > the case.If its on the banana plant i can understand that too, a lot > of times when the tuber (banana)dies it will grow fungus on it,But > fungus on a scrubed rock puzzles me.The only way for fungus to form > on a clean rock is if there is some kind of imbeded organic material > in it.What kindof rocks are they?? > By the way banana plants like quite a bit of light > Regards Hank > ================================== > > > I have 3 different types of live plants, 1 is a banana plant? the > > other 2 live off of the driftwood. I have low ish light in it and > > will want more plants to be kept towards the back of the tank to > keep > > cleaning easier. > > > > I was doing the weekly water changes and I had guppies before but > the > > American flag fish well were not friendly with them. > > > > I had massive amount of hairy algea on the diftwood and they took > > care of it. > > > > Yes it was a pleco and I got it as a baby and when it outgrew the > > tank I was going to bring it back to them had that arrangement > > already done. > > > > Ammonia(sp) is zero tested, and the ph was 7.5 I`ll have to retest > > everything today and post. > > Yes I plan on getting this all fixed before adding new fish as that > > would not be fair. > > > > I understand that gu[ppies breed but I`ll let nature take its > course > > on that 1 tank is enough for me so far. > > > > This tank was set up for a year already till this problem. So does > > this mean I still have the fishless cycle to do?? > > Watching out for the ammonia will that rise? > > > > I was doing the removeal all of those things and having the water > sit > > for at least 24 hours before doing water changes. > > > > I have a bio filter also. > > > > Now off to read those sites thanks. > > Jami > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Mold will grow in any body of water or where moisture is > present... > > and it's > > > even more likely when there is no other competing ecology. > > > > > > Now, that said, let's back up a little. > > > > > > First and foremost, now that you've found this group, DO NOT EVER > > listen to > > > people at the pet store for advice. If they do suggest > something, > > come > > > check it out here first. 95% of the stuff (chemicals, water > > treatments, > > > etc.) they sell does not work as advertised or is not needed 95% > of > > the > > > time. > > > > > > The main thing you do need is a simple dechlorinator product. I > > use API's > > > Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They > > are both > > > more concentrated than their similarly priced competitors so > you'll > > get a > > > lot more doses from those two brands. For example, with both of > > them, 1ml > > > treats 10 gallons where other brands might need 5ml or even 10ml > to > > treat 10 > > > gallons. These two also treat both chlorine and chloramine and > > heavy metals > > > but they do not have all the other junk stuff in them like slime- > > this or > > > stress-that type products might have... which are not needed > under > > normal > > > circumstances. > > > > > > Give us a list of all of the chemicals, meds, etc. that you have > on > > hand now > > > so we can give you proper advice in what to do with them... and > > yes, one of > > > my thoughts involve the fish store employee bending over. LOL I > > meant for > > > them to tie their shoes.. not what you were thinking. LOL > > > > > > Before going out for more fish, you should start a "fishless > cycle" > > on your > > > tank. You can get a bottle of plain ammonia (non-sudsing, non- > > scented) at > > > Ace Hardware or many other mom/pop type hardware stores. I'm not > > sure if > > > the big-box stores sell it. Some groceries still sell plain > > ammonia. > > > Here's a simple article > > > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html on how to > > fishless > > > cycle using a SeaChem Ammonia Alert so you don't have to do a lot > > of testing > > > but it's also a VERY good idea if you get a Master Test Kit that > > tests for > > > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. You can get either the API or > > > Tetratest-Laborette brands at Walmart for around $15.00. If you > > have a > > > PetsMart nearby, they will match their online prices (print the > > page) so the > > > API kit is around $15.00 there also. > > > > > > While you are fishless cycling the tank... 2 to 6 weeks and the > > mold in your > > > tank might actually help jumpstart things... you should go to my > A > > to Z of > > > Fish Keeping page > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how- to- > > training.h > > > tml and take one or both of the free online Beginner's fish > keeping > > > tutorials which will walk you step-by-step through all of the > > basics we will > > > be discussing out here. Feel free to come here and ask lots and > > lots of > > > questions on anything you do not understand. The tutorials links > > are about > > > 6" down from the top of the page and have RED "BEGINNER'S > > TUTORIALS" as the > > > caption to the paragraph. While on my A to Z page, also read and > > learn the > > > information in my article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as > this > > is one > > > of the biggest mistakes made by newbie's... improper filter > > > maintenance/cleaning. > > > > > > In the next couple of weeks, while you are fishless cycling your > > tank, > > > getting it safe and ready for fish, you can start learning the > > basics and > > > deciding more so on what fish you want to have. > > > > > > Why did you have the two American Flag fish and the "sucker > fish"? > > Both of > > > them are usually associated with algae eating chores which isn't > > needed on a > > > newly set up tank that is properly maintained. Further, > > the "sucker fish" > > > very well might have been a Common Pleco and they grow to 18"+ > and > > need to > > > be in really BIG tanks... 75G+.. although some LFS (local fish > > stores) will > > > have a program where you can buy a juvi pleco and then return it > > every 6 > > > months to a year when it starts to get bigger and exchange it for > a > > new juvi > > > pleco. > > > > > > Your tank is large enough for guppies but bear in mind that they > are > > > prolific breeders so if you were hoping to keep most of the fry > > alive, you > > > would need a second tank... or you could leave it to nature on > > which fry > > > survive. > > > > > > Have you thought about live plants for your tank yet? If you > were > > thinking > > > about using live plants, you could get your tank up and running > > quicker with > > > the plants while you are still learning the basics and deciding > on > > your > > > fish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of gardn4brds > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:37 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] white mold > > > > > > I guess that is what it is I tried looking this up but can find > > nothing. SO > > > I hope you can all help me. > > > I noticed my fish were sick last month went for some treatment > > stuff at the > > > pet store and well they all died. > > > I saw the white mold on the rocks and diftwood and plant growing > on > > it. > > > > > > So I caleared and scrubbed and left everything running. > > > It have been a month just running wiht no fish. Well the stuff is > > back. > > > White and growing on the rocks and plants and driftwood. > > > > > > What do I do now?? I`m ready to throw the towel in and just pack > it > > all up. > > > > > > I wnated to get a step up filter system I ahve a 25 gallon tall > > tank and > > > just felt the filter was not getting the things on the bottom fo > > the tank > > > sucked in. > > > > > > What do you all recomend. > > > > > > In the tank I had 2 american flag fish, and a sucker fish, so it > > wasnt over > > > crowded. > > > I would like to have guppies when I redo if I redo agian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 > > > Tested on: 10/21/2008 10:00:17 AM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 > > > Tested on: 10/21/2008 10:56:02 AM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31665	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

Well it's good to know I'm not the only neon killer! lol I remember having these when I was young. My mother had a 10 gallon and rarely even changed the water, so I figured they surely I could keep them alive too. My 6th one is still alive at the moment so thats a plus I guess. I bought some aquarium silicone the other day and built some caves for the cichlids. I'm getting ready to arrange the tank with them.... I'm so nervous! I will get you guys some photos later today though. Then we can work on finding out exactly what these guys are! :-)Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: greychildren@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:16:06 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point! hi SaraAs a beginner i learn that tetras are very sensitive and fragile fish.i remember wend i purchase 20 tetras 5 head and tail 5 neon 5 blackneon and 5 Congo withing hours i lost 6 of them that was 4 months agoi only have left 3 neon's 1 black neon and 4 head and tail. come tofind out they had bout ick into my tank, and tetras are very sensitiveto ick treatment. After doing some research neon are over bread inpoor conditions cause lots of stress and poor stock.--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny"<GoldLenny@...> wrote:>> Without quarantining the new fish, it's harder to tell what mighthave went> wrong.> > What were the water parameters for the water at the fish store? Itcould be> osmotic, temperature or pH related shock which will cause those kinds of> mortality rates more likely than a pathogen but... your currentfish/tank> could have a pathogen that your current fish have built up animmunity or> resistance to that might have quickly harmed the new fish. > > The new fish would be stressed already due to the shipping,transporting,> acclimating, etc., so their immune systems were already weakened. Further,> the new fish could have brought some new pathogen in with them thatmight> have caused harm to your Betta.> > The Betta's appearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died.Look> at online photos of a Betta flaring and see if this is what yourswas doing.> Do you have a mirror or anything next to the smaller tank that youmoved the> Betta to? While it's "cute" or "interesting" to see Betta's flare, it's> also a stressor to them and too much of it is likely not good for their> health, IMO. How old was the Betta?> > Lenny Vasbinder> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side underArchives> - Year, Month and under Labels)> > > -----Original Message-----> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On> Behalf Of Sarah Huss> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:01 PM> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!> > > So I made a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta. I> figured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add inwith the> two mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seen anythinglike it> before. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not a dead one in asingle> tank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by the bucket and slowlyadding my> water. Everything is going great. morning one, three neons are dead.moring> two, one more dies and this morning one more. So this leaves to meone neon> and one betta with the two mollies. I have tested and retested mywater and> everything is perfect! NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10Temp 77.> Then before I go to work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. Hewas just> kinda sitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins weregetting fin> rot (blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the oldtank water> and 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallon tank and> stays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home fromwork... he's> dead! The tank water is the exact same readings as the other one. Idont get> it. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, I only have threeleft and> I'm too scared to check on the other neon. I figure with no other neons> around he will probably go too. I did examine the betta before Idisposed of> him and it looked like the bottom of his face with pushed out.Almost like a> liver or somthing sticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm just> hoping my mollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill noclampped> fins or anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring the Cichlids> tomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm so scared.> > Sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. If> someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scared> the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever> comes." -unknown> > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > > > > > > ________________________________> > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.> > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008> Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:06:03 PM> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.> > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008> Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:16:05 PM> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31666	From: Alina	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

Since you just purchased them, can you get a return? I'm sure you're aware but many stores ask that you bring the fish's carcass, and a water sample and they credit you. This doesn't resolve a water quality issue, but bringing the dead fish back, having them test your water may provide some clues. Most reputable stores have some sort of policy or guarantee...at least you can get your money back while you sort thru the water issue. Alina -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote: > > > I did not test the LFS's water. I jsut assumed by acclimating them slowly it wouldnt matter. I got the betta on the same day as the neons so it would have still been young. It does look like he was flairing at the time of death. There is no mirror around, maybe the reflection from the tank? > > The idea of my current fish being used to a parasite I have makes since. Would it be possible to maybe have somthing in our city's water? This may have been the problem with the goldfish and shark? Should I treat my 10 gallon with an anti parasite just incase? My female molly is pregnant so I didnt know what would happen. I have some maracyn 2 I could use. I just did a 20% water change on sunday. Everything from the new water was the same as the old, temp ph and such. > > sarah > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:16:05 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point! > > > > > Without quarantining the new fish, it's harder to tell what might have wentwrong.What were the water parameters for the water at the fish store? It could beosmotic, temperature or pH related shock which will cause those kinds ofmortality rates more likely than a pathogen but... your current fish/tankcould have a pathogen that your current fish have built up an immunity orresistance to that might have quickly harmed the new fish. The new fish would be stressed already due to the shipping, transporting,acclimating, etc., so their immune systems were already weakened. Further,the new fish could have brought some new pathogen in with them that mighthave caused harm to your Betta.The Betta's appearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died. Lookat online photos of a Betta flaring and see if this is what yours was doing.Do you have a mirror or anything next to the smaller tank that you moved theBetta to? While it's "cute" or "interesting" to see Betta's flare, it'salso a stressor to them and too much of it is likely not good for theirhealth, IMO. How old was the Betta?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:01 PMTo: aquaticlife@...: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!So I made a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta. Ifigured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add in with thetwo mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seen anything like itbefore. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not a dead one in a singletank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by the bucket and slowly adding mywater. Everything is going great. morning one, three neons are dead. moringtwo, one more dies and this morning one more. So this leaves to me one neonand one betta with the two mollies. I have tested and retested my water andeverything is perfect! NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp 77.Then before I go to work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He was justkinda sitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were getting finrot (blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the old tank waterand 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallon tank andstays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home from work... he'sdead! The tank water is the exact same readings as the other one. I dont getit. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, I only have three left andI'm too scared to check on the other neon. I figure with no other neonsaround he will probably go too. I did examine the betta before I disposed ofhim and it looked like the bottom of his face with pushed out. Almost like aliver or somthing sticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm justhoping my mollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill no clamppedfins or anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring the Cichlidstomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm so scared.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:06:03 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:16:05 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31667	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: white mold

I'm pretty sure I replied earlier to this. Have you been vacuuming your gravel when doing PWC's (partial water changes)? Like Hank said, having too much detritus (fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) in the gravel will give mold something to live off of. Doing proper cleaning and maintenance will remove the excessive detritus. Are all of your plants thriving? I would imagine that if one or more of them died or parts of them died, that would cause problems as well. How deep is your substrate? I know many people get 2" to 3" of substrate but this isn't needed for non-planted tank. Speaking of substrates, what kind do you have in your tank? Is it just the gravel? Is it a natural gravel or one of the colored ones? How deep is it? Do you have any kind of mud or other natural planting substrate under the gravel? Give us your full water test results as well... and your tap water baseline numbers for comparison purposes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardn4brds Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: white mold Just the rocks you get at a pet store to put on the bottom of a tank. This white mold fungus stuff is what I first saw ont he rocks then the fish died in only a matter of hours. I will do the fishless cycle again and get more plants but why is it slimy and covering the driftwood and plant(I bought these at a pet store wiht the plants growing in them) Jami --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "hank voss" <aatetras@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "gardn4brds" <gardn4brds@> > wrote: > > Jami: > Im puzzled about he white mold that you said you have.I can understand > the mold on the driftwood(if its real driftwood)not always > the case.If its on the banana plant i can understand that too, a lot > of times when the tuber (banana)dies it will grow fungus on it,But > fungus on a scrubed rock puzzles me.The only way for fungus to form on > a clean rock is if there is some kind of imbeded organic material > in it.What kindof rocks are they?? > By the way banana plants like quite a bit of light Regards Hank > ================================== > > > I have 3 different types of live plants, 1 is a banana plant? the > > other 2 live off of the driftwood. I have low ish light in it and > > will want more plants to be kept towards the back of the tank to > keep > > cleaning easier. > > > > I was doing the weekly water changes and I had guppies before but > the > > American flag fish well were not friendly with them. > > > > I had massive amount of hairy algea on the diftwood and they took > > care of it. > > > > Yes it was a pleco and I got it as a baby and when it outgrew the > > tank I was going to bring it back to them had that arrangement > > already done. > > > > Ammonia(sp) is zero tested, and the ph was 7.5 I`ll have to retest > > everything today and post. > > Yes I plan on getting this all fixed before adding new fish as that > > would not be fair. > > > > I understand that gu[ppies breed but I`ll let nature take its > course > > on that 1 tank is enough for me so far. > > > > This tank was set up for a year already till this problem. So does > > this mean I still have the fishless cycle to do?? > > Watching out for the ammonia will that rise? > > > > I was doing the removeal all of those things and having the water > sit > > for at least 24 hours before doing water changes. > > > > I have a bio filter also. > > > > Now off to read those sites thanks. > > Jami > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Mold will grow in any body of water or where moisture is > present... > > and it's > > > even more likely when there is no other competing ecology. > > > > > > Now, that said, let's back up a little. > > > > > > First and foremost, now that you've found this group, DO NOT EVER > > listen to > > > people at the pet store for advice. If they do suggest > something, > > come > > > check it out here first. 95% of the stuff (chemicals, water > > treatments, > > > etc.) they sell does not work as advertised or is not needed 95% > of > > the > > > time. > > > > > > The main thing you do need is a simple dechlorinator product. I > > use API's > > > Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator. They > > are both > > > more concentrated than their similarly priced competitors so > you'll > > get a > > > lot more doses from those two brands. For example, with both of > > them, 1ml > > > treats 10 gallons where other brands might need 5ml or even 10ml > to > > treat 10 > > > gallons. These two also treat both chlorine and chloramine and > > heavy metals > > > but they do not have all the other junk stuff in them like slime- > > this or > > > stress-that type products might have... which are not needed > under > > normal > > > circumstances. > > > > > > Give us a list of all of the chemicals, meds, etc. that you have > on > > hand now > > > so we can give you proper advice in what to do with them... and > > yes, one of > > > my thoughts involve the fish store employee bending over. LOL I > > meant for > > > them to tie their shoes.. not what you were thinking. LOL > > > > > > Before going out for more fish, you should start a "fishless > cycle" > > on your > > > tank. You can get a bottle of plain ammonia (non-sudsing, non- > > scented) at > > > Ace Hardware or many other mom/pop type hardware stores. I'm not > > sure if > > > the big-box stores sell it. Some groceries still sell plain > > ammonia. > > > Here's a simple article > > > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html > > > <http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html> on how to > > fishless > > > cycle using a SeaChem Ammonia Alert so you don't have to do a lot > > of testing > > > but it's also a VERY good idea if you get a Master Test Kit that > > tests for > > > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. You can get either the API or > > > Tetratest-Laborette brands at Walmart for around $15.00. If you > > have a > > > PetsMart nearby, they will match their online prices (print the > > page) so the > > > API kit is around $15.00 there also. > > > > > > While you are fishless cycling the tank... 2 to 6 weeks and the > > mold in your > > > tank might actually help jumpstart things... you should go to my > A > > to Z of > > > Fish Keeping page > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how- > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-> to- > > training.h > > > tml and take one or both of the free online Beginner's fish > keeping > > > tutorials which will walk you step-by-step through all of the > > basics we will > > > be discussing out here. Feel free to come here and ask lots and > > lots of > > > questions on anything you do not understand. The tutorials links > > are about > > > 6" down from the top of the page and have RED "BEGINNER'S > > TUTORIALS" as the > > > caption to the paragraph. While on my A to Z page, also read and > > learn the > > > information in my article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" as > this > > is one > > > of the biggest mistakes made by newbie's... improper filter > > > maintenance/cleaning. > > > > > > In the next couple of weeks, while you are fishless cycling your > > tank, > > > getting it safe and ready for fish, you can start learning the > > basics and > > > deciding more so on what fish you want to have. > > > > > > Why did you have the two American Flag fish and the "sucker > fish"? > > Both of > > > them are usually associated with algae eating chores which isn't > > needed on a > > > newly set up tank that is properly maintained. Further, > > the "sucker fish" > > > very well might have been a Common Pleco and they grow to 18"+ > and > > need to > > > be in really BIG tanks... 75G+.. although some LFS (local fish > > stores) will > > > have a program where you can buy a juvi pleco and then return it > > every 6 > > > months to a year when it starts to get bigger and exchange it for > a > > new juvi > > > pleco. > > > > > > Your tank is large enough for guppies but bear in mind that they > are > > > prolific breeders so if you were hoping to keep most of the fry > > alive, you > > > would need a second tank... or you could leave it to nature on > > which fry > > > survive. > > > > > > Have you thought about live plants for your tank yet? If you > were > > thinking > > > about using live plants, you could get your tank up and running > > quicker with > > > the plants while you are still learning the basics and deciding > on > > your > > > fish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side > under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of gardn4brds > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:37 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] white mold > > > > > > I guess that is what it is I tried looking this up but can find > > nothing. SO > > > I hope you can all help me. > > > I noticed my fish were sick last month went for some treatment > > stuff at the > > > pet store and well they all died. > > > I saw the white mold on the rocks and diftwood and plant growing > on > > it. > > > > > > So I caleared and scrubbed and left everything running. > > > It have been a month just running wiht no fish. Well the stuff is > > back. > > > White and growing on the rocks and plants and driftwood. > > > > > > What do I do now?? I`m ready to throw the towel in and just pack > it > > all up. > > > > > > I wnated to get a step up filter system I ahve a 25 gallon tall > > tank and > > > just felt the filter was not getting the things on the bottom fo > > the tank > > > sucked in. > > > > > > What do you all recomend. > > > > > > In the tank I had 2 american flag fish, and a sucker fish, so it > > wasnt over > > > crowded. > > > I would like to have guppies when I redo if I redo agian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 > > > 10:00:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 > > > 10:56:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 9:47:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 9:56:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31668	From: greychildren	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: not so nice smelling tank water

Hi guys i had a newbie question: My ph is at 0.020 nitrate and nitrite are at normal level ph is at 6.8. but the water in the fish tank small like lake water(bad smelling) i was wondering is this normal?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31669	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

Unfortuntally they only do a 48 hour return. I had thought about that but there is no way I can make it up there today. Lenny, will the maracyn 2 hurt the pregnant molly? I will treat them and just hold off for anymore. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: alambiet@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:11:18 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point! Since you just purchased them, can you get a return? I'm sure you'reaware but many stores ask that you bring the fish's carcass, and awater sample and they credit you.This doesn't resolve a water quality issue, but bringing the dead fishback, having them test your water may provide some clues.Most reputable stores have some sort of policy or guarantee...at leastyou can get your money back while you sort thru the water issue.Alina-- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote:>> > I did not test the LFS's water. I jsut assumed by acclimating themslowly it wouldnt matter. I got the betta on the same day as the neonsso it would have still been young. It does look like he was flairingat the time of death. There is no mirror around, maybe the reflectionfrom the tank?> > The idea of my current fish being used to a parasite I have makessince. Would it be possible to maybe have somthing in our city'swater? This may have been the problem with the goldfish and shark?Should I treat my 10 gallon with an anti parasite just incase? Myfemale molly is pregnant so I didnt know what would happen. I havesome maracyn 2 I could use. I just did a 20% water change on sunday.Everything from the new water was the same as the old, temp ph and such. > > sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably wouldhave run scared the other way. However, you always find the strengthto meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:16:05-0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!> > > > > Without quarantining the new fish, it's harder to tell what mighthave wentwrong.What were the water parameters for the water at thefish store? It could beosmotic, temperature or pH related shock whichwill cause those kinds ofmortality rates more likely than a pathogenbut... your current fish/tankcould have a pathogen that your currentfish have built up an immunity orresistance to that might have quicklyharmed the new fish. The new fish would be stressed already due to theshipping, transporting,acclimating, etc., so their immune systems werealready weakened. Further,the new fish could have brought some newpathogen in with them that mighthave caused harm to your Betta.TheBetta's appearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died.Lookat online photos of a Betta flaring and see if this is what yourswas doing.Do you have a mirror or anything next to the smaller tankthat you moved theBetta to? While it's "cute" or "interesting" to seeBetta's flare, it'salso a stressor to them and too much of it islikely not good for theirhealth, IMO. How old was the Betta?LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articlesreferenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Monthand under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:01 PMTo:aquaticlife@...: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!So Imade a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta.Ifigured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add inwith thetwo mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seenanything like itbefore. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not adead one in a singletank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by thebucket and slowly adding mywater. Everything is going great. morningone, three neons are dead. moringtwo, one more dies and this morningone more. So this leaves to me one neonand one betta with the twomollies. I have tested and retested my water andeverything is perfect!NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp 77.Then before I goto work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He was justkindasitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were getting finrot(blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the old tankwaterand 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallontank andstays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home fromwork... he'sdead! The tank water is the exact same readings as theother one. I dont getit. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, Ionly have three left andI'm too scared to check on the other neon. Ifigure with no other neonsaround he will probably go too. I didexamine the betta before I disposed ofhim and it looked like thebottom of his face with pushed out. Almost like aliver or somthingsticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm justhoping mymollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill no clamppedfinsor anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring theCichlidstomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm soscared.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal withlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always findthe strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved]________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS):081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:06:03 PMavast! -copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:16:05 PMavast! -copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31670	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Here they are!

So, I got the new fish this morning. These are going in the 35 gallon. Here are my water stats, her water stats are in the brackets: PH 8.4 (8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5) Nitrate 0 (200). She did bring me her filter media an water. I am slowly acclimating them. They are tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies but brought two babies instead. I have photos waiting for approval in Cheesey Photos. They are about an inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'm thinking they are electric yellows? what do you guys think? Sarah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31671	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

Never... well almost never use a medicine for an unknown issue. Unless and until we figure out what went wrong, throwing an antibiotic/antibacterial med like Maracyn 2 (broad spectrum gram-negative antibacterial) may not help the problem at all and may help make a new strain of antibiotic resistant bacteria take hold. This is a huge problem that affects our hobby and affects medicine in general... far too much use of antibiotics when not necessarily needed. About the only meds I would use when starting treatment on an unknown would be salt... and I also am more willing to try something like Melafix or Pimafix which are mild treatments and are not antibiotic type meds. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:34 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point! Unfortuntally they only do a 48 hour return. I had thought about that but there is no way I can make it up there today. Lenny, will the maracyn 2 hurt the pregnant molly? I will treat them and just hold off for anymore. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : alambiet@... <mailto:alambiet%40yahoo.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:11:18 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point! Since you just purchased them, can you get a return? I'm sure you'reaware but many stores ask that you bring the fish's carcass, and awater sample and they credit you.This doesn't resolve a water quality issue, but bringing the dead fishback, having them test your water may provide some clues.Most reputable stores have some sort of policy or guarantee...at leastyou can get your money back while you sort thru the water issue.Alina-- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote:>> > I did not test the LFS's water. I jsut assumed by acclimating themslowly it wouldnt matter. I got the betta on the same day as the neonsso it would have still been young. It does look like he was flairingat the time of death. There is no mirror around, maybe the reflectionfrom the tank?> > The idea of my current fish being used to a parasite I have makessince. Would it be possible to maybe have somthing in our city'swater? This may have been the problem with the goldfish and shark?Should I treat my 10 gallon with an anti parasite just incase? Myfemale molly is pregnant so I didnt know what would happen. I havesome maracyn 2 I could use. I just did a 20% water change on sunday.Everything from the new water was the same as the old, temp ph and such. > > sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably wouldhave run scared the other way. However, you always find the strengthto meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:16:05-0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!> > > > > Without quarantining the new fish, it's harder to tell what mighthave wentwrong.What were the water parameters for the water at thefish store? It could beosmotic, temperature or pH related shock whichwill cause those kinds ofmortality rates more likely than a pathogenbut... your current fish/tankcould have a pathogen that your currentfish have built up an immunity orresistance to that might have quicklyharmed the new fish. The new fish would be stressed already due to theshipping, transporting,acclimating, etc., so their immune systems werealready weakened. Further,the new fish could have brought some newpathogen in with them that mighthave caused harm to your Betta.TheBetta's appearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died.Lookat online photos of a Betta flaring and see if this is what yourswas doing.Do you have a mirror or anything next to the smaller tankthat you moved theBetta to? While it's "cute" or "interesting" to seeBetta's flare, it'salso a stressor to them and too much of it islikely not good for theirhealth, IMO. How old was the Betta?LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articlesreferenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Monthand under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:01 PMTo:aquaticlife@...: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!So Imade a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta.Ifigured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add inwith thetwo mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seenanything like itbefore. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not adead one in a singletank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by thebucket and slowly adding mywater. Everything is going great. morningone, three neons are dead. moringtwo, one more dies and this morningone more. So this leaves to me one neonand one betta with the twomollies. I have tested and retested my water andeverything is perfect!NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp 77.Then before I goto work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He was justkindasitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were getting finrot(blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the old tankwaterand 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallontank andstays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home fromwork... he'sdead! The tank water is the exact same readings as theother one. I dont getit. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, Ionly have three left andI'm too scared to check on the other neon. Ifigure with no other neonsaround he will probably go too. I didexamine the betta before I disposed ofhim and it looked like thebottom of his face with pushed out. Almost like aliver or somthingsticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm justhoping mymollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill no clamppedfinsor anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring theCichlidstomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm soscared.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal withlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always findthe strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved]________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS):081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:06:03 PMavast! -copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:16:05 PMavast! -copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:40:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:49:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31672	From: greychildren	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: foul smelling water

exactly earthly like dirt.. i will correct myself 0.00 amonia. I found a platy baby with his head missing removed that.. still wondering who or what is nipping at both my Serpa Tetras and Head and tails fins --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yep... the good old smell test will tell you a lot about your tank. It > should smell earthy but clean... not foul or too fishy smelling. > > Have you been vacuuming your gravel good enough? This is often a source of > foul water when there is too much detritus (fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) > down in the gravel decaying. What about filter maintenance? (See my blog > article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning"). Have you had a fish > or critter come up missing recently that could be hidden and decaying? Did > you use any kind of snail killing chemicals (normally advised against) that > might have killed too many, too fast? > > I'm presuming you know that your ammonia level should be 0.0ppm and any > other kind of ammonia reading means something is not right with your tank. > Has the tank been fully cycled in the past where you had 0.0ppm levels for > ammonia and nitrite? > > You say your nitrite and nitrate are at perfect level but what are the > actual numbers? It helps us much more to know more details. Is your tap > water baseline pH close to 6.8 or is it much higher normally? > > Have you added any meds or chemicals to the tank? Many of them have what > could be considered foul smells to them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 5:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] foul smelling water > > Hey guys i was wondering newbie question here My ammonia level is at > 0.02 nitrite and nitrate are at perfect level and is at perfect Ph is at > 6.8. but there is this foul dirt smell coming from the tank is this normal? > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 > Tested on: 10/22/2008 9:42:21 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31673	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

At least the water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levels are quite high at 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could just be from them being in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank? If from her main tank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to get those nitrates down and keep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload will help also but if she kept some of the babies, they'll just start growing and increasing the bioload even more. With your numbers, compared to hers, you could probably do a 15 to 30 minute acclimation or longer if you have time. The pH change is more than the 0.2 that I prefer as the maximum change but it could be related to CO2 levels or inaccurate test results and both pH's are high enough that it's not as much of an issue since the GH and KH levels are the same. While they are in their water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I would add a part of a pinch of salt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) to help with any nitrite poisoning issues while they are in their water getting acclimated to yours. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cheeseymicron03 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Here they are! So, I got the new fish this morning. These are going in the 35 gallon. Here are my water stats, her water stats are in the brackets: PH 8.4 (8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5) Nitrate 0 (200). She did bring me her filter media an water. I am slowly acclimating them. They are tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies but brought two babies instead. I have photos waiting for approval in Cheesey Photos. They are about an inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'm thinking they are electric yellows? what do you guys think? Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:59:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31674	From: pam andress	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

Did you save the bodies? If so, call the store and tell them. I did that with a hampster and I had to freeze it until I was able to get there. Pam To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom: cheese911@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:34:21 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point! Unfortuntally they only do a 48 hour return. I had thought about that but there is no way I can make it up there today. Lenny, will the maracyn 2 hurt the pregnant molly? I will treat them and just hold off for anymore.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: alambiet@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:11:18 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!Since you just purchased them, can you get a return? I'm sure you'reaware but many stores ask that you bring the fish's carcass, and awater sample and they credit you.This doesn't resolve a water quality issue, but bringing the dead fishback, having them test your water may provide some clues.Most reputable stores have some sort of policy or guarantee...at leastyou can get your money back while you sort thru the water issue.Alina-- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote:>> > I did not test the LFS's water. I jsut assumed by acclimating themslowly it wouldnt matter. I got the betta on the same day as the neonsso it would have still been young. It does look like he was flairingat the time of death. There is no mirror around, maybe the reflectionfrom the tank?> > The idea of my current fish being used to a parasite I have makessince. Would it be possible to maybe have somthing in our city'swater? This may have been the problem with the goldfish and shark?Should I treat my 10 gallon with an anti parasite just incase? Myfemale molly is pregnant so I didnt know what would happen. I havesome maracyn 2 I could use. I just did a 20% water change on sunday.Everything from the new water was the same as the old, temp ph and such. > > sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably wouldhave run scared the other way. However, you always find the strengthto meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:16:05-0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!> > > > > Without quarantining the new fish, it's harder to tell what mighthave wentwrong.What were the water parameters for the water at thefish store? It could beosmotic, temperature or pH related shock whichwill cause those kinds ofmortality rates more likely than a pathogenbut... your current fish/tankcould have a pathogen that your currentfish have built up an immunity orresistance to that might have quicklyharmed the new fish. The new fish would be stressed already due to theshipping, transporting,acclimating, etc., so their immune systems werealready weakened. Further,the new fish could have brought some newpathogen in with them that mighthave caused harm to your Betta.TheBetta's appearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died.Lookat online photos of a Betta flaring and see if this is what yourswas doing.Do you have a mirror or anything next to the smaller tankthat you moved theBetta to? While it's "cute" or "interesting" to seeBetta's flare, it'salso a stressor to them and too much of it islikely not good for theirhealth, IMO. How old was the Betta?LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articlesreferenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Monthand under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:01 PMTo:aquaticlife@...: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!So Imade a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta.Ifigured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add inwith thetwo mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seenanything like itbefore. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not adead one in a singletank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by thebucket and slowly adding mywater. Everything is going great. morningone, three neons are dead. moringtwo, one more dies and this morningone more. So this leaves to me one neonand one betta with the twomollies. I have tested and retested my water andeverything is perfect!NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp 77.Then before I goto work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He was justkindasitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were getting finrot(blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the old tankwaterand 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallontank andstays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home fromwork... he'sdead! The tank water is the exact same readings as theother one. I dont getit. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, Ionly have three left andI'm too scared to check on the other neon. Ifigure with no other neonsaround he will probably go too. I didexamine the betta before I disposed ofhim and it looked like thebottom of his face with pushed out. Almost like aliver or somthingsticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm justhoping mymollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill no clamppedfinsor anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring theCichlidstomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm soscared.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal withlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always findthe strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved]________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS):081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:06:03 PMavast! -copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:16:05 PMavast! -copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31675	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

No, unfortunitally I didnt. I didnt even think about that.Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom: pamandress23@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:51:53 +0000Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point! Did you save the bodies? If so, call the store and tell them. I did that with a hampster and I had to freeze it until I was able to get there.PamTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comFrom: cheese911@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:34:21 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!Unfortuntally they only do a 48 hour return. I had thought about that but there is no way I can make it up there today. Lenny, will the maracyn 2 hurt the pregnant molly? I will treat them and just hold off for anymore.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: alambiet@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:11:18 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!Since you just purchased them, can you get a return? I'm sure you'reaware but many stores ask that you bring the fish's carcass, and awater sample and they credit you.This doesn't resolve a water quality issue, but bringing the dead fishback, having them test your water may provide some clues.Most reputable stores have some sort of policy or guarantee...at leastyou can get your money back while you sort thru the water issue.Alina-- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote:>> > I did not test the LFS's water. I jsut assumed by acclimating themslowly it wouldnt matter. I got the betta on the same day as the neonsso it would have still been young. It does look like he was flairingat the time of death. There is no mirror around, maybe the reflectionfrom the tank?> > The idea of my current fish being used to a parasite I have makessince. Would it be possible to maybe have somthing in our city'swater? This may have been the problem with the goldfish and shark?Should I treat my 10 gallon with an anti parasite just incase? Myfemale molly is pregnant so I didnt know what would happen. I havesome maracyn 2 I could use. I just did a 20% water change on sunday.Everything from the new water was the same as the old, temp ph and such. > > sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably wouldhave run scared the other way. However, you always find the strengthto meet whatever comes." -unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:16:05-0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!> > > > > Without quarantining the new fish, it's harder to tell what mighthave wentwrong.What were the water parameters for the water at thefish store? It could beosmotic, temperature or pH related shock whichwill cause those kinds ofmortality rates more likely than a pathogenbut... your current fish/tankcould have a pathogen that your currentfish have built up an immunity orresistance to that might have quicklyharmed the new fish. The new fish would be stressed already due to theshipping, transporting,acclimating, etc., so their immune systems werealready weakened. Further,the new fish could have brought some newpathogen in with them that mighthave caused harm to your Betta.TheBetta's appearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died.Lookat online photos of a Betta flaring and see if this is what yourswas doing.Do you have a mirror or anything next to the smaller tankthat you moved theBetta to? While it's "cute" or "interesting" to seeBetta's flare, it'salso a stressor to them and too much of it islikely not good for theirhealth, IMO. How old was the Betta?LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articlesreferenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Monthand under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:01 PMTo:aquaticlife@...: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to my breaking point!So Imade a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and a betta.Ifigured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add inwith thetwo mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seenanything like itbefore. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not adead one in a singletank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by thebucket and slowly adding mywater. Everything is going great. morningone, three neons are dead. moringtwo, one more dies and this morningone more. So this leaves to me one neonand one betta with the twomollies. I have tested and retested my water andeverything is perfect!NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp 77.Then before I goto work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He was justkindasitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were getting finrot(blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the old tankwaterand 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallontank andstays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home fromwork... he'sdead! The tank water is the exact same readings as theother one. I dont getit. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, Ionly have three left andI'm too scared to check on the other neon. Ifigure with no other neonsaround he will probably go too. I didexamine the betta before I disposed ofhim and it looked like thebottom of his face with pushed out. Almost like aliver or somthingsticking out of his gills. It was very wierd. I'm justhoping mymollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill no clamppedfinsor anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bring theCichlidstomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm soscared.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal withlife as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always findthe strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoin me[Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved]________________________________avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS):081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:06:03 PMavast! -copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS):081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:16:05 PMavast! -copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31676	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!

I do have a tiny amount of salt in there currently. I guess we will just hold off on doing anything Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:49:18 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point! Never... well almost never use a medicine for an unknown issue. Unless and until we figure out what went wrong, throwing anantibiotic/antibacterial med like Maracyn 2 (broad spectrum gram-negativeantibacterial) may not help the problem at all and may help make a newstrain of antibiotic resistant bacteria take hold. This is a huge problemthat affects our hobby and affects medicine in general... far too much useof antibiotics when not necessarily needed. About the only meds I would usewhen starting treatment on an unknown would be salt... and I also am morewilling to try something like Melafix or Pimafix which are mild treatmentsand are not antibiotic type meds.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:34 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!Unfortuntally they only do a 48 hour return. I had thought about that butthere is no way I can make it up there today. Lenny, will the maracyn 2 hurtthe pregnant molly? I will treat them and just hold off for anymore.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : alambiet@...<mailto:alambiet%40yahoo.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:11:18 +0000Subject:[AquaticLife] Re: I'm almost to my breaking point!Since you just purchased them, can you get a return? I'm sure you'reawarebut many stores ask that you bring the fish's carcass, and awater sample andthey credit you.This doesn't resolve a water quality issue, but bringing thedead fishback, having them test your water may provide some clues.Mostreputable stores have some sort of policy or guarantee...at leastyou can getyour money back while you sort thru the water issue.Alina-- InAquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , SarahHuss <cheese911@...> wrote:>> > I did not test the LFS's water. I jsutassumed by acclimating themslowly it wouldnt matter. I got the betta on thesame day as the neonsso it would have still been young. It does look like hewas flairingat the time of death. There is no mirror around, maybe thereflectionfrom the tank?> > The idea of my current fish being used to aparasite I have makessince. Would it be possible to maybe have somthing inour city'swater? This may have been the problem with the goldfish andshark?Should I treat my 10 gallon with an anti parasite just incase?Myfemale molly is pregnant so I didnt know what would happen. I havesomemaracyn 2 I could use. I just did a 20% water change on sunday.Everythingfrom the new water was the same as the old, temp ph and such. > > sarah>"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably wouldhave run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strengthto meet whatever comes."-unknown> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > To: AquaticLife@...:GoldLenny@...: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:16:05-0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I'malmost to my breaking point!> > > > > Without quarantining the new fish,it's harder to tell what mighthave wentwrong.What were the water parametersfor the water at thefish store? It could beosmotic, temperature or pHrelated shock whichwill cause those kinds ofmortality rates more likely thana pathogenbut... your current fish/tankcould have a pathogen that yourcurrentfish have built up an immunity orresistance to that might havequicklyharmed the new fish. The new fish would be stressed already due totheshipping, transporting,acclimating, etc., so their immune systemswerealready weakened. Further,the new fish could have brought somenewpathogen in with them that mighthave caused harm to your Betta.TheBetta'sappearance sounds more like it was flaring when it died.Lookat online photosof a Betta flaring and see if this is what yourswas doing.Do you have amirror or anything next to the smaller tankthat you moved theBetta to? Whileit's "cute" or "interesting" to seeBetta's flare, it'salso a stressor tothem and too much of it islikely not good for theirhealth, IMO. How old wasthe Betta?LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articlesreferenced above listed onthe right side under Archives- Year, Monthand under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Tuesday,October 21, 2008 11:01 PMTo:aquaticlife@...: [AquaticLife] I'm almost to mybreaking point!So Imade a trip to the LFS two days ago and got 6 neons and abetta.Ifigured this would be a small bioload and would be fine to add inwiththetwo mollies. This pet store was awesome! I have never seenanything likeitbefore. Their fish were all in wonderful shape, not adead one in asingletank, nothing. I get home, acclimate them by thebucket and slowlyadding mywater. Everything is going great. morningone, three neons are dead.moringtwo, one more dies and this morningone more. So this leaves to me oneneonand one betta with the twomollies. I have tested and retested my waterandeverything is perfect!NO2 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8 NO3 15 ppm GH 10 KH 10 Temp77.Then before I goto work, I notice my betta is acting kinda odd. He wasjustkindasitting around. He also looked kinda like his fins were gettingfinrot(blackened) SO I move him to a 2.5 gallon add 1.5 of the oldtankwaterand 1 gallon fresh. This has a filter that was in the 10 gallontankandstays pretty well heated around 76 or so. I just got home fromwork...he'sdead! The tank water is the exact same readings as theother one. I dontgetit. Out of 15 fish in the last, what 3 months, Ionly have three leftandI'm too scared to check on the other neon. Ifigure with no otherneonsaround he will probably go too. I didexamine the betta before Idisposed ofhim and it looked like thebottom of his face with pushed out.Almost like aliver or somthingsticking out of his gills. It was very wierd.I'm justhoping mymollies keep going. This fish so no signs of being ill noclamppedfinsor anything. I just dont get it. The woman is bringtheCichlidstomorrow morning for the 35 gallon and I'm soscared.Sarah"Withkids there's no guarantee, but you just deal withlife as it comes. Ifsomeonegave me a script of what was to be, Iprobably would have run scaredthe otherway. However, you always findthe strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATERGOODJoin me[Non-text portions of thismessage have beenremoved]________________________________avast!Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS):081021-0, 10/21/2008Testedon: 10/21/2008 11:06:03 PMavast! -copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWILSoftware._____ avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database(VPS):081021-0, 10/21/2008Tested on: 10/21/2008 11:16:05 PMavast! -copyright(c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of thismessage have been removed]>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:40:49 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:49:18 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31677	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

Well, I acclimated them for about 2 hours. I just added them to the tank and they went right into hiding. The test results were from the bag they were in. Anyway my kids are driving me nuts so its nap time! Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:59:00 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! At least the water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levels arequite high at 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could just befrom them being in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank? Iffrom her main tank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to get thosenitrates down and keep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload will helpalso but if she kept some of the babies, they'll just start growing andincreasing the bioload even more.With your numbers, compared to hers, you could probably do a 15 to 30 minuteacclimation or longer if you have time. The pH change is more than the 0.2that I prefer as the maximum change but it could be related to CO2 levels orinaccurate test results and both pH's are high enough that it's not as muchof an issue since the GH and KH levels are the same. While they are intheir water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I would add a part of a pinch ofsalt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) to help with any nitritepoisoning issues while they are in their water getting acclimated to yours.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:40 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Here they are!So, I got the new fish this morning. These are going in the 35 gallon.Here are my water stats, her water stats are in the brackets:PH 8.4 (8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5) Nitrate 0(200). She did bring me her filter media an water. I am slowly acclimatingthem. They are tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies but broughttwo babies instead. I have photos waiting for approval in Cheesey Photos.They are about an inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'm thinkingthey are electric yellows? what do you guys think?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:59:00 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31678	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

Hiding is OK and usually expected... especially for juvi's who are used to hiding from being a meal. How about their fins? Extended or clamped? Any rapid breathing/gill movement? Are they laying on the bottom or hovering slightly above it? Are they looking around.. like peeking out of a cave or do they have their noses facing into a cave or corner? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:44 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! Well, I acclimated them for about 2 hours. I just added them to the tank and they went right into hiding. The test results were from the bag they were in. Anyway my kids are driving me nuts so its nap time! Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:59:00 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! At least the water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levels arequite high at 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could just befrom them being in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank? Iffrom her main tank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to get thosenitrates down and keep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload will helpalso but if she kept some of the babies, they'll just start growing andincreasing the bioload even more.With your numbers, compared to hers, you could probably do a 15 to 30 minuteacclimation or longer if you have time. The pH change is more than the 0.2that I prefer as the maximum change but it could be related to CO2 levels orinaccurate test results and both pH's are high enough that it's not as muchof an issue since the GH and KH levels are the same. While they are intheir water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I would add a part of a pinch ofsalt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) to help with any nitritepoisoning issues while they are in their water getting acclimated to yours.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:40 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Here they are!So, I got the new fish this morning. These are going in the 35 gallon.Here are my water stats, her water stats are in the brackets:PH 8.4 (8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5) Nitrate 0(200). She did bring me her filter media an water. I am slowly acclimatingthem. They are tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies but broughttwo babies instead. I have photos waiting for approval in Cheesey Photos.They are about an inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'm thinkingthey are electric yellows? what do you guys think?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:59:00 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 11:59:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 12:03:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31679	From: greychildren	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: foul smelling water

Well i just received a phone call from the wife she said i just lost one of my head and tail tetras. i just hope i dont have eny kind of disease in the tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yep... the good old smell test will tell you a lot about your tank. It > should smell earthy but clean... not foul or too fishy smelling. > > Have you been vacuuming your gravel good enough? This is often a source of > foul water when there is too much detritus (fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) > down in the gravel decaying. What about filter maintenance? (See my blog > article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning"). Have you had a fish > or critter come up missing recently that could be hidden and decaying? Did > you use any kind of snail killing chemicals (normally advised against) that > might have killed too many, too fast? > > I'm presuming you know that your ammonia level should be 0.0ppm and any > other kind of ammonia reading means something is not right with your tank. > Has the tank been fully cycled in the past where you had 0.0ppm levels for > ammonia and nitrite? > > You say your nitrite and nitrate are at perfect level but what are the > actual numbers? It helps us much more to know more details. Is your tap > water baseline pH close to 6.8 or is it much higher normally? > > Have you added any meds or chemicals to the tank? Many of them have what > could be considered foul smells to them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 5:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] foul smelling water > > Hey guys i was wondering newbie question here My ammonia level is at > 0.02 nitrite and nitrate are at perfect level and is at perfect Ph is at > 6.8. but there is this foul dirt smell coming from the tank is this normal? > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008 > Tested on: 10/22/2008 9:42:21 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31680	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

They are looking great. I have two caves and there was one in each. They are swimming around exploring and then meeting back up with each other. Also, I shut off my bubble wall. It seemed like the current in the tank was as bit much for the babies. :-) These guys are just so cute! With them being so young, should I feed them fry food or regular flakes? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:03:40 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! Hiding is OK and usually expected... especially for juvi's who are used tohiding from being a meal. How about their fins? Extended or clamped? Anyrapid breathing/gill movement? Are they laying on the bottom or hoveringslightly above it? Are they looking around.. like peeking out of a cave ordo they have their noses facing into a cave or corner?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:44 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Well, I acclimated them for about 2 hours. I just added them to the tank andthey went right into hiding. The test results were from the bag they werein. Anyway my kids are driving me nuts so its nap time!Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:59:00 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!At least the water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levelsarequite high at 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could justbefrom them being in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank?Iffrom her main tank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to getthosenitrates down and keep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload willhelpalso but if she kept some of the babies, they'll just start growingandincreasing the bioload even more.With your numbers, compared to hers, youcould probably do a 15 to 30 minuteacclimation or longer if you have time.The pH change is more than the 0.2that I prefer as the maximum change but itcould be related to CO2 levels orinaccurate test results and both pH's arehigh enough that it's not as muchof an issue since the GH and KH levels arethe same. While they are intheir water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I wouldadd a part of a pinch ofsalt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) tohelp with any nitritepoisoning issues while they are in their water gettingacclimated to yours.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:40 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Here theyare!So, I got the new fish this morning. These are going in the 35gallon.Here are my water stats, her water stats are in the brackets:PH 8.4(8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5) Nitrate 0(200). Shedid bring me her filter media an water. I am slowly acclimatingthem. Theyare tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies but broughttwo babiesinstead. I have photos waiting for approval in Cheesey Photos.They are aboutan inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'm thinkingthey areelectric yellows? what do you guys think?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > :Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008Tested on:10/22/2008 10:59:00 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 11:59:14 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-0, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 12:03:40 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31681	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

They certainly didn't look like fry to me, so I would go with protein rich quality cichlid foods. What was the previous owner feeding them? I'm not sure if you read all of the posts out here but depending on the brand, some of the flakes and pellets from some brands are really crappy (bad) fish food choices. Check the ingredients on the brand you have compared to a brand like Omega One. I got away from the cheaper brands of fish foods a while back. The cheaper brands, even ones that I used to think were decent brands (Nutrafin Max) seem to start off with ingredients like wheat flour, corn flour, fish meal, etc., where the Omega One brand starts off with ingredients like Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp. That sure sounds more like fish food than flour. I haven't seen many Wheat or Corn fields in very many lakes or streams. Yeah... our FW fish wouldn't normally be eating salmon or herring but fish is fish when it comes to dietary concerns, on average. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:53 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! They are looking great. I have two caves and there was one in each. They are swimming around exploring and then meeting back up with each other. Also, I shut off my bubble wall. It seemed like the current in the tank was as bit much for the babies. :-) These guys are just so cute! With them being so young, should I feed them fry food or regular flakes? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:03:40 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! Hiding is OK and usually expected... especially for juvi's who are used tohiding from being a meal. How about their fins? Extended or clamped? Anyrapid breathing/gill movement? Are they laying on the bottom or hoveringslightly above it? Are they looking around.. like peeking out of a cave ordo they have their noses facing into a cave or corner?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:44 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Well, I acclimated them for about 2 hours. I just added them to the tank andthey went right into hiding. The test results were from the bag they werein. Anyway my kids are driving me nuts so its nap time!Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:59:00 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!At least the water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levelsarequite high at 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could justbefrom them being in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank?Iffrom her main tank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to getthosenitrates down and keep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload willhelpalso but if she kept some of the babies, they'll just start growingandincreasing the bioload even more.With your numbers, compared to hers, youcould probably do a 15 to 30 minuteacclimation or longer if you have time.The pH change is more than the 0.2that I prefer as the maximum change but itcould be related to CO2 levels orinaccurate test results and both pH's arehigh enough that it's not as muchof an issue since the GH and KH levels arethe same. While they are intheir water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I wouldadd a part of a pinch ofsalt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) tohelp with any nitritepoisoning issues while they are in their water gettingacclimated to yours.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:40 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Here theyare!So, I got the new fish this morning. These are going in the 35gallon.Here are my water stats, her water stats are in the brackets:PH 8.4(8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5) Nitrate 0(200). Shedid bring me her filter media an water. I am slowly acclimatingthem. Theyare tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies but broughttwo babiesinstead. I have photos waiting for approval in Cheesey Photos.They are aboutan inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'm thinkingthey areelectric yellows? what do you guys think?Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 3:14:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31682	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Scud shrimp

I was wondering if raising scud shrimp for feeding freshwater tropical fish would be better than brine shrimp because of the salt water. It looks like you could raise them in the tank with them. And will they eat them. I have Mollies, tetras, oto cats, platys and a betta. Anyone tried? Jennie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Scud shrimp

Here's a thread that mentions them from The Krib going back into the 90's.... right around the time that Al Gore invented the internet! ;-) http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/shrimp.html This article has more details. http://ozarkanglers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=152 I have Cherry Shrimp in a planted 10G tank and they are pretty easy to deal with... I don't really consider it raising them as they do their own thing and I constantly have new hatchings. I think they'd do better being raised in a separate tank as they are quite small when first born and would easily become fish food unless the tank was heavily planted. They might fare better in a tank with small tropical's but even then, who knows. They have more value at retail than as a food item though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Scud shrimp I was wondering if raising scud shrimp for feeding freshwater tropical fish would be better than brine shrimp because of the salt water. It looks like you could raise them in the tank with them. And will they eat them. I have Mollies, tetras, oto cats, platys and a betta. Anyone tried? Jennie ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 3:52:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 4:01:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31684	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: White Clouds

My partner bought some White Clouds for our waterfeature from Aquariumfish.net. A dozen lively little guys, We have them in a small aquarium with a undergravel filter. They will be only housed in there for the winter and will go out in the feature next Spring or so. Its not a large aquarium and they are not very large fish so I think they will be fine in there till Spring. I know they recommend one gallon per inch or they used to but its temp housing. We have limited space inside so we had to stick with something small. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31685	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

If they are an inch long no need for fry food. I think Omega One makes a good food, look for herbivore foods, and you do NOT want a protein rich food as bloat can be a fatal problem with mbuna. Even though many mbuna are omnivores, they have long intestines like cattle which are easily blocked by cheap fillers, too much fat from mammal protein, and inadequate roughage. I like New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula. Your fish do look like mbuna (translates to "rock fish", African cichlids from Lake Malawi) but not like yellow labs a.k.a. electric yellows a.k.a. Labidochromis Caeruleus. Yellow labs have a black stripe down the dorsal fin from birth. It might be faded, but it's there. Maybe red zebras (Metriaclima Estherae)? Or a hybrid of the two which is quite common, these hybrids look like yellow labs but lack the black dorsal stripe. Based on the comments from the previous owner (they were terrorizing her tank), I'd think zebras or the hybrids. Yellow labs are peaceful, at least for cichlids, LOL. You do want to fill up the tank at least half full with rocks.many recommend filling to the waterline. And you want to start looking for a bigger tank.how long is your 35G? How many do you have? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! They certainly didn't look like fry to me, so I would go with protein rich quality cichlid foods. What was the previous owner feeding them? I'm not sure if you read all of the posts out here but depending on the brand, some of the flakes and pellets from some brands are really crappy (bad) fish food choices. Check the ingredients on the brand you have compared to a brand like Omega One. I got away from the cheaper brands of fish foods a while back. The cheaper brands, even ones that I used to think were decent brands (Nutrafin Max) seem to start off with ingredients like wheat flour, corn flour, fish meal, etc., where the Omega One brand starts off with ingredients like Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp. That sure sounds more like fish food than flour. I haven't seen many Wheat or Corn fields in very many lakes or streams. Yeah... our FW fish wouldn't normally be eating salmon or herring but fish is fish when it comes to dietary concerns, on average. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:53 PM To: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! They are looking great. I have two caves and there was one in each. They are swimming around exploring and then meeting back up with each other. Also, I shut off my bubble wall. It seemed like the current in the tank was as bit much for the babies. :-) These guys are just so cute! With them being so young, should I feed them fry food or regular flakes? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:03:40 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! Hiding is OK and usually expected... especially for juvi's who are used tohiding from being a meal. How about their fins? Extended or clamped? Anyrapid breathing/gill movement? Are they laying on the bottom or hoveringslightly above it? Are they looking around.. like peeking out of a cave ordo they have their noses facing into a cave or corner?Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:44 AMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Well, I acclimated them for about 2 hours. I just added them to the tank andthey went right into hiding. The test results were from the bag they werein. Anyway my kids are driving me nuts so its nap time!Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:59:00 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!At least the water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levelsarequite high at 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could justbefrom them being in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank?Iffrom her main tank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to getthosenitrates down and keep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload willhelpalso but if she kept some of the babies, they'll just start growingandincreasing the bioload even more.With your numbers, compared to hers, youcould probably do a 15 to 30 minuteacclimation or longer if you have time.The pH change is more than the 0.2that I prefer as the maximum change but itcould be related to CO2 levels orinaccurate test results and both pH's arehigh enough that it's not as muchof an issue since the GH and KH levels arethe same. While they are intheir water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I wouldadd a part of a pinch ofsalt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) tohelp with any nitritepoisoning issues while they are in their water gettingacclimated to yours.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of cheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:40 AMTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Here theyare!So, I got the new fish this morning. These are going in the 35gallon.Here are my water stats, her water stats are in the brackets:PH 8.4(8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5) Nitrate 0(200). Shedid bring me her filter media an water. I am slowly acclimatingthem. Theyare tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies but broughttwo babiesinstead. I have photos waiting for approval in Cheesey Photos.They are aboutan inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'm thinkingthey areelectric yellows? what do you guys think?Sarah _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 3:14:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31686	From: jcjjj5	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Apple Snails

Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a lot of luck in that. Cindy www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31687	From: bill1433	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Lost Again??? Yo Lenny?

I cut from a previous message from Lenny: From Lenny on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:14 PM �They certainly didn't look like fry to me, so I would go with protein rich quality cichlid foods. What was the previous owner feeding them�? � I�m reading this post and seeing Sarah Huss name at the bottom of it.� Has Sarah posted pictures already?� Where?� Have they been ID? � And one question?� About fish by mail?� You folks can save me a phone call.� Reading on �That fish place�� where they give a price with a speciemen is that a mailed price each? �Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31688	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

NO. Do not flush Apple Snails. If they happen to live and crawl out of the pipes/system some where, they can become a nuisance non-native species... you could also be breaking the law by releasing them. You should be able to find a LFS that would be willing to take some of them. You may need to find a couple of stores since 100 might be a lot for any one store. You could also go to AquaBid.com and sell them privately there.. subject to laws that might be applicable. I could probably take a couple off of your hands too and there may be other members out here that might want one or two. Here's a good care sheet for any who may be thinking about this. http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php BTW...Which species of Apple Snails do you have? http://www.applesnail.net/content/species_genera.htm If you still can't get rid of them, then you would need to destroy them first and dispose of them in your garbage. Last but not least, dispose of the egg clutches before they hatch next time and save yourself a lot of trouble unless you develop one or more LFS that would take the baby snails off of your hands in the future. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jcjjj5 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a lot of luck in that. Cindy www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 7:01:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 7:15:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31689	From: dtrc rc	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

You could turn them into fish food if you get what i mean. --- On Wed, 10/22/08, jcjjj5 <jgilber1@...> wrote: From: jcjjj5 <jgilber1@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 6:55 PM Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a lot of luck in that. Cindy www.ideasdestiny. blogspot. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31690	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

My tank is 36 inches by 16 inches. I just have the two fish in it with some rock caves, a driftwood cave, and a ton of fake plants. I had someone else offer up the idea of them being red zebra's which would make sense with the mom terriorizing the other tank. I bought some Cichlid staple by Hikari. I have heard great things about their food lines. It is 39% protein though. I also have some Tetra Algae vegetable enhanced crisps. I feed these to my mollies but would the babies enjoy these as well? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: djransome@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:53:37 -0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! If they are an inch long no need for fry food. I think Omega One makes agood food, look for herbivore foods, and you do NOT want a protein rich foodas bloat can be a fatal problem with mbuna. Even though many mbuna areomnivores, they have long intestines like cattle which are easily blocked bycheap fillers, too much fat from mammal protein, and inadequate roughage. Ilike New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula.Your fish do look like mbuna (translates to "rock fish", African cichlidsfrom Lake Malawi) but not like yellow labs a.k.a. electric yellows a.k.a.Labidochromis Caeruleus. Yellow labs have a black stripe down the dorsalfin from birth. It might be faded, but it's there. Maybe red zebras(Metriaclima Estherae)? Or a hybrid of the two which is quite common, thesehybrids look like yellow labs but lack the black dorsal stripe.Based on the comments from the previous owner (they were terrorizing hertank), I'd think zebras or the hybrids. Yellow labs are peaceful, at leastfor cichlids, LOL.You do want to fill up the tank at least half full with rocks.many recommendfilling to the waterline.And you want to start looking for a bigger tank.how long is your 35G? Howmany do you have? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLennySent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:14 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!They certainly didn't look like fry to me, so I would go with protein richquality cichlid foods. What was the previous owner feeding them?I'm not sure if you read all of the posts out here but depending on thebrand, some of the flakes and pellets from some brands are really crappy(bad) fish food choices. Check the ingredients on the brand you havecompared to a brand like Omega One. I got away from the cheaper brands of fish foods a while back. The cheaperbrands, even ones that I used to think were decent brands (Nutrafin Max)seem to start off with ingredients like wheat flour, corn flour, fish meal,etc., where the Omega One brand starts off with ingredients like WholeSalmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp. That sure sounds more like fish foodthan flour. I haven't seen many Wheat or Corn fields in very many lakes orstreams. Yeah... our FW fish wouldn't normally be eating salmon or herringbut fish is fish when it comes to dietary concerns, on average.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com[mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:53 PMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!They are looking great. I have two caves and there was one in each. They areswimming around exploring and then meeting back up with each other. Also, Ishut off my bubble wall. It seemed like the current in the tank was as bitmuch for the babies. :-) These guys are just so cute!With them being so young, should I feed them fry food or regular flakes?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail.<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:03:40 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Hiding is OK and usually expected... especially for juvi's who are usedtohiding from being a meal. How about their fins? Extended or clamped?Anyrapid breathing/gill movement? Are they laying on the bottom orhoveringslightly above it? Are they looking around.. like peeking out of acave ordo they have their noses facing into a cave or corner?LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links toarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:44 AMTo: aquaticlife@<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Here theyare!Well, I acclimated them for about 2 hours. I just added them to the tankandthey went right into hiding. The test results were from the bag theywerein. Anyway my kids are driving me nuts so its nap time!Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeonegave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredtheother way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail.<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,22 Oct 2008 10:59:00 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!At leastthe water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levelsarequite highat 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could justbefrom thembeing in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank?Iffrom her maintank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to getthosenitrates down andkeep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload willhelpalso but if she keptsome of the babies, they'll just start growingandincreasing the bioload evenmore.With your numbers, compared to hers, youcould probably do a 15 to 30minuteacclimation or longer if you have time.The pH change is more than the0.2that I prefer as the maximum change but itcould be related to CO2 levelsorinaccurate test results and both pH's arehigh enough that it's not asmuchof an issue since the GH and KH levels arethe same. While they areintheir water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I wouldadd a part of a pinchofsalt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) tohelp with anynitritepoisoning issues while they are in their water gettingacclimated toyours.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Linkstoarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Ofcheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:40 AMTo:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Heretheyare!So, I got the new fish this morning. These are going in the35gallon.Here are my water stats, her water stats are in the brackets:PH8.4(8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5) Nitrate 0(200).Shedid bring me her filter media an water. I am slowly acclimatingthem.Theyare tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies but broughttwobabiesinstead. I have photos waiting for approval in Cheesey Photos.They areaboutan inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'm thinkingtheyareelectric yellows? what do you guys think?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outboundmessage clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 3:14:28 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31691	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Lost Again??? Yo Lenny?

The pics are in her folder on the Photos page. http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos Once on the photos page, to look at the most recent updated folders, click on the "List" view instead of the "Thumbnail" view which is the default view. The "List" view will bring up the folders usually sorted by "Last Modified" but if they aren't sorted in that manner, just click on the that column header. Here is the link to her actual folder, called "Cheesey Folder" http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/907c?m=l I've never ordered from ThatFishPlace but I would imagine the price shown does not include shipping which will usually be a fixed fee added to the price of the order, regardless of the size of the order in many cases for live goods. $35.00 is not an unusual price for this shipping fee due to the overnight shipping expense plus the use of heat packs, etc. to make shipping them safer on the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:33 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Lost Again??? Yo Lenny? I cut from a previous message from Lenny: From Lenny on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:14 PM “They certainly didn't look like fry to me, so I would go with protein rich quality cichlid foods. What was the previous owner feeding them”? I’m reading this post and seeing Sarah Huss name at the bottom of it. Has Sarah posted pictures already? Where? Have they been ID? And one question? About fish by mail? You folks can save me a phone call. Reading on “That fish place” where they give a price with a speciemen is that a mailed price each? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 7:07:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 7:26:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31692	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Lost Again??? Yo Lenny?

Yeah, I posted my photos. Here is the link http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew? We are thinking they are red zebra's or a hybrid. sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31693	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

No that would not be appropriate. The US barely lets you sell snails let alone import them because of all the damage well-intended people have done by releasing pets into the wild. You can euthanize them with a couple of drops of clove oil (from health food stores, often in aromatherapy section) in water. Takes about 5 minutes for them to go to sleep. This does not kill them however. Then put them in the freezer until garbage day. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jcjjj5 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a lot of luck in that. Cindy www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31694	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

The Hikari and the Algae wafers should be OK. I saw the pictures of your tank IMO more rocks!! Malawi are not pairing fish. The best you can hope for are two females. If you have two males or one of each, you will have trouble with them in 6 months or so. Ideal for red zebras would be one male and 4 females in a 48” long tank with two other species of mbuna of course. You don’t have any other fish in with the mbuna, right? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:12 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! My tank is 36 inches by 16 inches. I just have the two fish in it with some rock caves, a driftwood cave, and a ton of fake plants. I had someone else offer up the idea of them being red zebra's which would make sense with the mom terriorizing the other tank. I bought some Cichlid staple by Hikari. I have heard great things about their food lines. It is 39% protein though. I also have some Tetra Algae vegetable enhanced crisps. I feed these to my mollies but would the babies enjoy these as well? Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom: djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.netDate> .netDate: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:53:37 -0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! If they are an inch long no need for fry food. I think Omega One makes agood food, look for herbivore foods, and you do NOT want a protein rich foodas bloat can be a fatal problem with mbuna. Even though many mbuna areomnivores, they have long intestines like cattle which are easily blocked bycheap fillers, too much fat from mammal protein, and inadequate roughage. Ilike New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula.Your fish do look like mbuna (translates to "rock fish", African cichlidsfrom Lake Malawi) but not like yellow labs a.k.a. electric yellows a.k.a.Labidochromis Caeruleus. Yellow labs have a black stripe down the dorsalfin from birth. It might be faded, but it's there. Maybe red zebras(Metriaclima Estherae)? Or a hybrid of the two which is quite common, thesehybrids look like yellow labs but lack the black dorsal stripe.Based on the comments from the previous owner (they were terrorizing hertank), I'd think zebras or the hybrids. Yellow labs are peaceful, at leastfor cichlids, LOL.You do want to fill up the tank at least half full with rocks.many recommendfilling to the waterline.And you want to start looking for a bigger tank.how long is your 35G? Howmany do you have? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLennySent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:14 PMTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!They certainly didn't look like fry to me, so I would go with protein richquality cichlid foods. What was the previous owner feeding them?I'm not sure if you read all of the posts out here but depending on thebrand, some of the flakes and pellets from some brands are really crappy(bad) fish food choices. Check the ingredients on the brand you havecompared to a brand like Omega One. I got away from the cheaper brands of fish foods a while back. The cheaperbrands, even ones that I used to think were decent brands (Nutrafin Max)seem to start off with ingredients like wheat flour, corn flour, fish meal,etc., where the Omega One brand starts off with ingredients like WholeSalmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp. That sure sounds more like fish foodthan flour. I haven't seen many Wheat or Corn fields in very many lakes orstreams. Yeah... our FW fish wouldn't normally be eating salmon or herringbut fish is fish when it comes to dietary concerns, on average.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com[mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:53 PMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!They are looking great. I have two caves and there was one in each. They areswimming around exploring and then meeting back up with each other. Also, Ishut off my bubble wall. It seemed like the current in the tank was as bitmuch for the babies. :-) These guys are just so cute!With them being so young, should I feed them fry food or regular flakes?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:Aquatic Life%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail.<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:03:40 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Hiding is OK and usually expected... especially for juvi's who are usedtohiding from being a meal. How about their fins? Extended or clamped?Anyrapid breathing/gill movement? Are they laying on the bottom orhoveringslightly above it? Are they looking around.. like peeking out of acave ordo they have their noses facing into a cave or corner?LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links toarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40y ahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent:Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:44 AMTo: aquaticlife@<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Here theyare!Well, I acclimated them for about 2 hours. I just added them to the tankandthey went right into hiding. The test results were from the bag theywerein. Anyway my kids are driving me nuts so its nap time!Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeonegave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredtheother way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:Aquatic Life%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@gmail.<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> comDate<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed,22 Oct 2008 10:59:00 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!At leastthe water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levelsarequite highat 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could justbefrom thembeing in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank?Iffrom her maintank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to getthosenitrates down andkeep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload willhelpalso but if she keptsome of the babies, they'll just start growingandincreasing the bioload evenmore.With your numbers, compared to hers, youcould probably do a 15 to 30minuteacclimation or longer if you have time.The pH change is more than the0.2that I prefer as the maximum change but itcould be related to CO2 levelsorinaccurate test results and both pH's arehigh enough that it's not asmuchof an issue since the GH and KH levels arethe same. While they areintheir water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I wouldadd a part of a pinchofsalt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) tohelp with anynitritepoisoning issues while they are in their water gettingacclimated toyours.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Linkstoarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40y ahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40y ahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Ofcheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:40 AMTo:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:A quaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSub ject> : [AquaticLife] Heretheyare!So, I got the new fish this morning. These are going in the35gallon.Here are my water stats, her water stats are in the brackets:PH8.4(8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5) Nitrate 0(200).Shedid bring me her filter media an water. I am slowly acclimatingthem.Theyare tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies but broughttwobabiesinstead. I have photos waiting for approval in Cheesey Photos.They areaboutan inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'm thinkingtheyareelectric yellows? what do you guys think?Sarah_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> : Outboundmessage clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 3:14:28 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31695	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

I'm with lenny, I'd be interested in taking one or two off of your hands! I love snails but hate the reproduction rate. Since these are egg layers, that works out great! Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:15:54 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails NO. Do not flush Apple Snails. If they happen to live and crawl out of thepipes/system some where, they can become a nuisance non-native species...you could also be breaking the law by releasing them.You should be able to find a LFS that would be willing to take some of them.You may need to find a couple of stores since 100 might be a lot for any onestore.You could also go to AquaBid.com and sell them privately there.. subject tolaws that might be applicable. I could probably take a couple off of yourhands too and there may be other members out here that might want one ortwo. Here's a good care sheet for any who may be thinking about this.http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php BTW...Which species of Apple Snails do you have? http://www.applesnail.net/content/species_genera.htmIf you still can't get rid of them, then you would need to destroy themfirst and dispose of them in your garbage.Last but not least, dispose of the egg clutches before they hatch next timeand save yourself a lot of trouble unless you develop one or more LFS thatwould take the baby snails off of your hands in the future.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of jcjjj5Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:55 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Apple SnailsWould it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewersystem. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know whatto do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not alot of luck in that.Cindywww.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 7:01:54 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 7:15:54 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31696	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

Okay, I have more rocks I could add, I just liked the look it had already. I guess for the fishes sake, I will add more. They are all alone in this tank, and they look so tiny! lol Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: djransome@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:39:49 -0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! The Hikari and the Algae wafers should be OK. I saw the pictures of yourtank�IMO more rocks!! Malawi are not pairing fish. The best you can hopefor are two females. If you have two males or one of each, you will havetrouble with them in 6 months or so. Ideal for red zebras would be one maleand 4 females in a 48� long tank�with two other species of mbuna of course.You don�t have any other fish in with the mbuna, right?_____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:12 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!My tank is 36 inches by 16 inches. I just have the two fish in it with somerock caves, a driftwood cave, and a ton of fake plants. I had someone elseoffer up the idea of them being red zebra's which would make sense with themom terriorizing the other tank.I bought some Cichlid staple by Hikari. I have heard great things abouttheir food lines. It is 39% protein though. I also have some Tetra Algaevegetable enhanced crisps. I feed these to my mollies but would the babiesenjoy these as well?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFrom: djransome@optonline<mailto:djransome%40optonline.netDate> .netDate: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:53:37-0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!If they are an inch long no need for fry food. I think Omega One makes agoodfood, look for herbivore foods, and you do NOT want a protein rich foodasbloat can be a fatal problem with mbuna. Even though many mbunaareomnivores, they have long intestines like cattle which are easily blockedbycheap fillers, too much fat from mammal protein, and inadequate roughage.Ilike New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula.Your fish do look like mbuna(translates to "rock fish", African cichlidsfrom Lake Malawi) but not likeyellow labs a.k.a. electric yellows a.k.a.Labidochromis Caeruleus. Yellowlabs have a black stripe down the dorsalfin from birth. It might be faded,but it's there. Maybe red zebras(Metriaclima Estherae)? Or a hybrid of thetwo which is quite common, thesehybrids look like yellow labs but lack theblack dorsal stripe.Based on the comments from the previous owner (they wereterrorizing hertank), I'd think zebras or the hybrids. Yellow labs arepeaceful, at leastfor cichlids, LOL.You do want to fill up the tank at leasthalf full with rocks.many recommendfilling to the waterline.And you want tostart looking for a bigger tank.how long is your 35G? Howmany do you have?_____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLennySent: Wednesday, October22, 2008 4:14 PMTo: AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: RE:[AquaticLife] Here they are!They certainly didn't look like fry to me, so Iwould go with protein richquality cichlid foods. What was the previous ownerfeeding them?I'm not sure if you read all of the posts out here butdepending on thebrand, some of the flakes and pellets from some brands arereally crappy(bad) fish food choices. Check the ingredients on the brand youhavecompared to a brand like Omega One. I got away from the cheaper brandsof fish foods a while back. The cheaperbrands, even ones that I used tothink were decent brands (Nutrafin Max)seem to start off with ingredientslike wheat flour, corn flour, fish meal,etc., where the Omega One brandstarts off with ingredients like WholeSalmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp.That sure sounds more like fish foodthan flour. I haven't seen many Wheat orCorn fields in very many lakes orstreams. Yeah... our FW fish wouldn'tnormally be eating salmon or herringbut fish is fish when it comes todietary concerns, on average.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right sideunder Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com[mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:53PMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!They are lookinggreat. I have two caves and there was one in each. They areswimming aroundexploring and then meeting back up with each other. Also, Ishut off mybubble wall. It seemed like the current in the tank was as bitmuch for thebabies. :-) These guys are just so cute!With them being so young, should Ifeed them fry food or regular flakes?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@gmail.<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>comDate<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:03:40-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Hiding is OK and usuallyexpected... especially for juvi's who are usedtohiding from being a meal.How about their fins? Extended or clamped?Anyrapid breathing/gill movement?Are they laying on the bottom orhoveringslightly above it? Are they lookingaround.. like peeking out of acave ordo they have their noses facing into acave or corner?LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>blogspot.com>blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Linkstoarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:44 AMTo:aquaticlife@<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife] Here theyare!Well, I acclimated them for about 2 hours. I justadded them to the tankandthey went right into hiding. The test results werefrom the bag theywerein. Anyway my kids are driving me nuts so its naptime!Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeonegave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredtheother way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@gmail.<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>comDate<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Wed,22 Oct 2008 10:59:00 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Atleastthe water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levelsarequitehighat 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could justbefromthembeing in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank?Iffrom hermaintank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to getthosenitrates downandkeep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload willhelpalso but if shekeptsome of the babies, they'll just start growingandincreasing the bioloadevenmore.With your numbers, compared to hers, youcould probably do a 15 to30minuteacclimation or longer if you have time.The pH change is more thanthe0.2that I prefer as the maximum change but itcould be related to CO2levelsorinaccurate test results and both pH's arehigh enough that it's notasmuchof an issue since the GH and KH levels arethe same. While theyareintheir water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I wouldadd a part of apinchofsalt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) tohelp withanynitritepoisoning issues while they are in their water gettingacclimatedtoyours.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > >(Linkstoarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives-Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Ofcheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, October 22, 200810:40 AMTo:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Heretheyare!So, I got the new fish this morning. Theseare going in the35gallon.Here are my water stats, her water stats are in thebrackets:PH8.4(8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5)Nitrate 0(200).Shedid bring me her filter media an water. I am slowlyacclimatingthem.Theyare tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies butbroughttwobabiesinstead. I have photos waiting for approval in CheeseyPhotos.They areaboutan inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'mthinkingtheyareelectric yellows? what do you guys think?Sarah_____ avast!Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com>com> : Outboundmessage clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1,10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 3:14:28 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31697	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

Presuming they are http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/met_estherae.php, read over that profile and Google for other profiles from reputable sites. Also read these two articles on feeding and Malawi Bloat. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_african_cichlids.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/malawi_bloat.php There is still a lot that is not known about Malawi Bloat unless something definitive has come up recently. Some argue it's related to diet while others argue it's pathogen related. The same types of arguments exist about the cause of Dropsy with one or more pathogens leading the pack now, since Veterinarians have been successful with injecting antibiotics to cure Dropsy in Koi and Goldfish. When I did recommend protein rich foods earlier, I did not suggest pure protein foods like bloodworms, etc., which seem to be one of the foods associated with Malawi Bloat. They are omnivores so they need a mixed diet but fry and juvi fish should get sufficient quantities of food and enough protein to support their increased metabolisms and growth rates. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:45 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! Okay, I have more rocks I could add, I just liked the look it had already. I guess for the fishes sake, I will add more. They are all alone in this tank, and they look so tiny! lol Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: djransome@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:39:49 -0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! The Hikari and the Algae wafers should be OK. I saw the pictures of yourtank IMO more rocks!! Malawi are not pairing fish. The best you can hopefor are two females. If you have two males or one of each, you will havetrouble with them in 6 months or so. Ideal for red zebras would be one maleand 4 females in a 48” long tank with two other species of mbuna of course.You don’t have any other fish in with the mbuna, right?_____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:12 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!My tank is 36 inches by 16 inches. I just have the two fish in it with somerock caves, a driftwood cave, and a ton of fake plants. I had someone elseoffer up the idea of them being red zebra's which would make sense with themom terriorizing the other tank.I bought some Cichlid staple by Hikari. I have heard great things abouttheir food lines. It is 39% protein though. I also have some Tetra Algaevegetable enhanced crisps. I feed these to my mollies but would the babiesenjoy these as well?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFrom: djransome@optonline<mailto:djransome%40optonline.netDate> .netDate: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:53:37-0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!If they are an inch long no need for fry food. I think Omega One makes agoodfood, look for herbivore foods, and you do NOT want a protein rich foodasbloat can be a fatal problem with mbuna. Even though many mbunaareomnivores, they have long intestines like cattle which are easily blockedbycheap fillers, too much fat from mammal protein, and inadequate roughage.Ilike New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula.Your fish do look like mbuna(translates to "rock fish", African cichlidsfrom Lake Malawi) but not likeyellow labs a.k.a. electric yellows a.k.a.Labidochromis Caeruleus. Yellowlabs have a black stripe down the dorsalfin from birth. It might be faded,but it's there. Maybe red zebras(Metriaclima Estherae)? Or a hybrid of thetwo which is quite common, thesehybrids look like yellow labs but lack theblack dorsal stripe.Based on the comments from the previous owner (they wereterrorizing hertank), I'd think zebras or the hybrids. Yellow labs arepeaceful, at leastfor cichlids, LOL.You do want to fill up the tank at leasthalf full with rocks.many recommendfilling to the waterline.And you want tostart looking for a bigger tank.how long is your 35G? Howmany do you have?_____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLennySent: Wednesday, October22, 2008 4:14 PMTo: AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: RE:[AquaticLife] Here they are!They certainly didn't look like fry to me, so Iwould go with protein richquality cichlid foods. What was the previous ownerfeeding them?I'm not sure if you read all of the posts out here butdepending on thebrand, some of the flakes and pellets from some brands arereally crappy(bad) fish food choices. Check the ingredients on the brand youhavecompared to a brand like Omega One. I got away from the cheaper brandsof fish foods a while back. The cheaperbrands, even ones that I used tothink were decent brands (Nutrafin Max)seem to start off with ingredientslike wheat flour, corn flour, fish meal,etc., where the Omega One brandstarts off with ingredients like WholeSalmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp.That sure sounds more like fish foodthan flour. I haven't seen many Wheat orCorn fields in very many lakes orstreams. Yeah... our FW fish wouldn'tnormally be eating salmon or herringbut fish is fish when it comes todietary concerns, on average.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com>blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right sideunder Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com[mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:53PMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!They are lookinggreat. I have two caves and there was one in each. They areswimming aroundexploring and then meeting back up with each other. Also, Ishut off mybubble wall. It seemed like the current in the tank was as bitmuch for thebabies. :-) These guys are just so cute!With them being so young, should Ifeed them fry food or regular flakes?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFrom<ma ilto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@gmail.<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>comDate<mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:03:40-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Hiding is OK and usuallyexpected... especially for juvi's who are usedtohiding from being a meal.How about their fins? Extended or clamped?Anyrapid breathing/gill movement?Are they laying on the bottom orhoveringslightly above it? Are they lookingaround.. like peeking out of acave ordo they have their noses facing into acave or corner?LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >blogspot.com>blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Linkstoarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<mailto:Aqu aticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<ma ilto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:44 AMTo:aquaticlife@<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>yahoogroups.co mSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife] Here theyare!Well, I acclimated them for about 2 hours. I justadded them to the tankandthey went right into hiding. The test results werefrom the bag theywerein. Anyway my kids are driving me nuts so its naptime!Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeonegave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredtheother way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFr om<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroup s.comFrom> :GoldLenny@gmail.<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>comDate<mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Wed,22 Oct 2008 10:59:00 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Atleastthe water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levelsarequitehighat 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could justbefromthembeing in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank?Iffrom hermaintank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to getthosenitrates downandkeep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload willhelpalso but if shekeptsome of the babies, they'll just start growingandincreasing the bioloadevenmore.With your numbers, compared to hers, youcould probably do a 15 to30minuteacclimation or longer if you have time.The pH change is more thanthe0.2that I prefer as the maximum change but itcould be related to CO2levelsorinaccurate test results and both pH's arehigh enough that it's notasmuchof an issue since the GH and KH levels arethe same. While theyareintheir water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I wouldadd a part of apinchofsalt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) tohelp withanynitritepoisoning issues while they are in their water gettingacclimatedtoyours.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com>blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com>blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > >(Linkstoarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives-Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoo groups.com>yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Aqua ticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<ma ilto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Ofcheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, October 22, 200810:40 AMTo:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>yahoogroups.co mSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40y ahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Heretheyare!So, I got the new fish this morning. Theseare going in the35gallon.Here are my water stats, her water stats are in thebrackets:PH8.4(8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5)Nitrate 0(200).Shedid bring me her filter media an water. I am slowlyacclimatingthem.Theyare tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies butbroughttwobabiesinstead. I have photos waiting for approval in CheeseyPhotos.They areaboutan inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'mthinkingtheyareelectric yellows? what do you guys think?Sarah_____ avast!Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> > > com>com> : Outboundmessage clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1,10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 3:14:28 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31698	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Here they are!

A very good protein for them is spirulina which is an algae and high in protein on it’s own! Any good quality as Lenny said, herbivore food is fine. The latest I hear on bloat being discussed is that bloat may be an organism that is always present but becomes empowered by a stressed fish. So avoid intestinal and aggression distress. The pictures weren’t very clear, but metriaclima estherae is a good guess for basic care info. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! Presuming they are http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/met_estherae.php,> forum.com/articles/met_estherae.php, read over that profile and Google for other profiles from reputable sites. Also read these two articles on feeding and Malawi Bloat. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_african_cichlids.php> forum.com/articles/feeding_african_cichlids.php http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/malawi_bloat.php> forum.com/articles/malawi_bloat.php There is still a lot that is not known about Malawi Bloat unless something definitive has come up recently. Some argue it's related to diet while others argue it's pathogen related. The same types of arguments exist about the cause of Dropsy with one or more pathogens leading the pack now, since Veterinarians have been successful with injecting antibiotics to cure Dropsy in Koi and Goldfish. When I did recommend protein rich foods earlier, I did not suggest pure protein foods like bloodworms, etc., which seem to be one of the foods associated with Malawi Bloat. They are omnivores so they need a mixed diet but fry and juvi fish should get sufficient quantities of food and enough protein to support their increased metabolisms and growth rates. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:45 PM To: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! Okay, I have more rocks I could add, I just liked the look it had already. I guess for the fishes sake, I will add more. They are all alone in this tank, and they look so tiny! lol Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> yahoogroups.comFrom: djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.netDate> .netDate: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:39:49 -0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are! The Hikari and the Algae wafers should be OK. I saw the pictures of yourtank IMO more rocks!! Malawi are not pairing fish. The best you can hopefor are two females. If you have two males or one of each, you will havetrouble with them in 6 months or so. Ideal for red zebras would be one maleand 4 females in a 48” long tank with two other species of mbuna of course.You don’t have any other fish in with the mbuna, right?_____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:12 PMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!My tank is 36 inches by 16 inches. I just have the two fish in it with somerock caves, a driftwood cave, and a ton of fake plants. I had someone elseoffer up the idea of them being red zebra's which would make sense with themom terriorizing the other tank.I bought some Cichlid staple by Hikari. I have heard great things abouttheir food lines. It is 39% protein though. I also have some Tetra Algaevegetable enhanced crisps. I feed these to my mollies but would the babiesenjoy these as well?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFrom: djransome@optonline<mailto:djransome%40optonline.netDate> .netDate: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:53:37-0400Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!If they are an inch long no need for fry food. I think Omega One makes agoodfood, look for herbivore foods, and you do NOT want a protein rich foodasbloat can be a fatal problem with mbuna. Even though many mbunaareomnivores, they have long intestines like cattle which are easily blockedbycheap fillers, too much fat from mammal protein, and inadequate roughage.Ilike New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula.Your fish do look like mbuna(translates to "rock fish", African cichlidsfrom Lake Malawi) but not likeyellow labs a.k.a. electric yellows a.k.a.Labidochromis Caeruleus. Yellowlabs have a black stripe down the dorsalfin from birth. It might be faded,but it's there. Maybe red zebras(Metriaclima Estherae)? Or a hybrid of thetwo which is quite common, thesehybrids look like yellow labs but lack theblack dorsal stripe.Based on the comments from the previous owner (they wereterrorizing hertank), I'd think zebras or the hybrids. Yellow labs arepeaceful, at leastfor cichlids, LOL.You do want to fill up the tank at leasthalf full with rocks.many recommendfilling to the waterline.And you want tostart looking for a bigger tank.how long is your 35G? Howmany do you have?_____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLennySent: Wednesday, October22, 2008 4:14 PMTo: AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> yahoogroups.comSubject: RE:[AquaticLife] Here they are!They certainly didn't look like fry to me, so Iwould go with protein richquality cichlid foods. What was the previous ownerfeeding them?I'm not sure if you read all of the posts out here butdepending on thebrand, some of the flakes and pellets from some brands arereally crappy(bad) fish food choices. Check the ingredients on the brand youhavecompared to a brand like Omega One. I got away from the cheaper brandsof fish foods a while back. The cheaperbrands, even ones that I used tothink were decent brands (Nutrafin Max)seem to start off with ingredientslike wheat flour, corn flour, fish meal,etc., where the Omega One brandstarts off with ingredients like WholeSalmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp.That sure sounds more like fish foodthan flour. I haven't seen many Wheat orCorn fields in very many lakes orstreams. Yeah... our FW fish wouldn'tnormally be eating salmon or herringbut fish is fish when it comes todietary concerns, on average.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com>blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right sideunder Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com[mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com]OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:53PMTo: aquaticlife@ <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!They are lookinggreat. I have two caves and there was one in each. They areswimming aroundexploring and then meeting back up with each other. Also, Ishut off mybubble wall. It seemed like the current in the tank was as bitmuch for thebabies. :-) These guys are just so cute!With them being so young, should Ifeed them fry food or regular flakes?Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee,but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of whatwas to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, youalways find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknownEMAILING FOR THEGREATER GOODJoin meTo: AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFrom<ma ilto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :GoldLenny@gmail.<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>comDate<mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:03:40-0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Hiding is OK and usuallyexpected... especially for juvi's who are usedtohiding from being a meal.How about their fins? Extended or clamped?Anyrapid breathing/gill movement?Are they laying on the bottom orhoveringslightly above it? Are they lookingaround.. like peeking out of acave ordo they have their noses facing into acave or corner?LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > >blogspot.com>blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Linkstoarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<mailto:Aqu aticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<ma ilto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of SarahHussSent:Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:44 AMTo:aquaticlife@<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>yahoogroups.co mSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE:[AquaticLife] Here theyare!Well, I acclimated them for about 2 hours. I justadded them to the tankandthey went right into hiding. The test results werefrom the bag theywerein. Anyway my kids are driving me nuts so its naptime!Sarah"With kidsthere's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. Ifsomeonegave me a script of what was to be, I probably would haverun scaredtheother way. However, you always find the strength to meetwhatevercomes."-unknownEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin meTo:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>yahoogroups.comFr om<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroup s.comFrom> :GoldLenny@gmail.<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>comDate<mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Wed,22 Oct 2008 10:59:00 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Here they are!Atleastthe water parameters are close.... although her nitrate levelsarequitehighat 200ppm. The nitrite level is high also but that could justbefromthembeing in the bag... or were those numbers from her main tank?Iffrom hermaintank, she needs to step up the PWC schedule to getthosenitrates downandkeep them down. Of course, reducing the bioload willhelpalso but if shekeptsome of the babies, they'll just start growingandincreasing the bioloadevenmore.With your numbers, compared to hers, youcould probably do a 15 to30minuteacclimation or longer if you have time.The pH change is more thanthe0.2that I prefer as the maximum change but itcould be related to CO2levelsorinaccurate test results and both pH's arehigh enough that it's notasmuchof an issue since the GH and KH levels arethe same. While theyareintheir water with the nitrite of 0.5ppm, I wouldadd a part of apinchofsalt (a pinch per 10G so less for less than 10G) tohelp withanynitritepoisoning issues while they are in their water gettingacclimatedtoyours.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com>blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com>blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.<http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > >(Linkstoarticles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives-Year,Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoo groups.com>yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Aqua ticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com<ma ilto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Ofcheeseymicron03Sent:Wednesday, October 22, 200810:40 AMTo:AquaticLife@<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>yahoogroups.co mSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject><mailto:AquaticLife%40y ahoogroups.comSubject> : [AquaticLife] Heretheyare!So, I got the new fish this morning. Theseare going in the35gallon.Here are my water stats, her water stats are in thebrackets:PH8.4(8.8) KH 300 (300) CH 0 (0) GH 300 (300) Nitrite 0 (.5)Nitrate 0(200).Shedid bring me her filter media an water. I am slowlyacclimatingthem.Theyare tiny! She decided to keep the mom and 3 babies butbroughttwobabiesinstead. I have photos waiting for approval in CheeseyPhotos.They areaboutan inch long and she said maybe 1-2 months old. I'mthinkingtheyareelectric yellows? what do you guys think?Sarah_____ avast!Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > com>com> : Outboundmessage clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1,10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 3:14:28 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 7:56:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 8:14:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31699	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Can you add a snail eatting fish into the tank? I just offered the same resolution to my co-worker and she got great results. She got a puffer fish who ate all her excess snails up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jcjjj5" <jgilber1@...> wrote: > > Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer > system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't > know what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local > store, but not a lot of luck in that. > Cindy > www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Cindy, Considering that Apple Snails sell for an average of $5.00 each (smaller specimens for a dollar, larger specimens for much more), that would be some very expensive fish food. I think selling them or trading them for store credit at one or more LFS would be the practical thing to do. You're looking at around $500.00 crawling around in that tank. ;-) Priority Mail - 2-3 day service - (free boxes), not over 1 lb. (wouldn't be a problem for a couple of snails), would only be $4.80 shipping charges to anywhere in the USA... so for one or two snails in a package, a $10.00 fee would cover your shipping/handling and make you a little cash money. You might want to set up a PayPal account for accepting payments and spending your hard-earned money. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails Can you add a snail eatting fish into the tank? I just offered the same resolution to my co-worker and she got great results. She got a puffer fish who ate all her excess snails up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "jcjjj5" <jgilber1@...> wrote: > > Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer > system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know > what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local > store, but not a lot of luck in that. > Cindy > www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:35:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:54:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31701	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Id be willing to pay for some of them, shipping and handling and a little extra. Im thinking I too need to set up a paypal account....LOL! I just usually do not buy much online I like to see what Im buying before I buy...a little old fashion...maybe! Who knows. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails Cindy, Considering that Apple Snails sell for an average of $5.00 each (smaller specimens for a dollar, larger specimens for much more), that would be some very expensive fish food. I think selling them or trading them for store credit at one or more LFS would be the practical thing to do. You're looking at around $500.00 crawling around in that tank. ;-) Priority Mail - 2-3 day service - (free boxes), not over 1 lb. (wouldn't be a problem for a couple of snails), would only be $4.80 shipping charges to anywhere in the USA... so for one or two snails in a package, a $10.00 fee would cover your shipping/handling and make you a little cash money. You might want to set up a PayPal account for accepting payments and spending your hard-earned money. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails Can you add a snail eatting fish into the tank? I just offered the same resolution to my co-worker and she got great results. She got a puffer fish who ate all her excess snails up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "jcjjj5" <jgilber1@...> wrote: > > Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer > system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know > what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local > store, but not a lot of luck in that. > Cindy > www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:35:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:54:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31702	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

ARRRRRGHH ... ARRRRRRRGGGGHHH.. (Lenny straining trying to pull Heather, kicking and screaming, into the 21st Century) LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails Id be willing to pay for some of them, shipping and handling and a little extra. Im thinking I too need to set up a paypal account....LOL! I just usually do not buy much online I like to see what Im buying before I buy...a little old fashion...maybe! Who knows. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails Cindy, Considering that Apple Snails sell for an average of $5.00 each (smaller specimens for a dollar, larger specimens for much more), that would be some very expensive fish food. I think selling them or trading them for store credit at one or more LFS would be the practical thing to do. You're looking at around $500.00 crawling around in that tank. ;-) Priority Mail - 2-3 day service - (free boxes), not over 1 lb. (wouldn't be a problem for a couple of snails), would only be $4.80 shipping charges to anywhere in the USA... so for one or two snails in a package, a $10.00 fee would cover your shipping/handling and make you a little cash money. You might want to set up a PayPal account for accepting payments and spending your hard-earned money. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails Can you add a snail eatting fish into the tank? I just offered the same resolution to my co-worker and she got great results. She got a puffer fish who ate all her excess snails up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "jcjjj5" <jgilber1@...> wrote: > > Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer > system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know > what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local > store, but not a lot of luck in that. > Cindy > www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:35:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:54:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 11:42:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 12:13:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31703	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Lost Again??? Yo Lenny?

No Shipping is seperate, however I just received a notice that shiiping is free on orders over 125.00. � John in Nevada --- On Wed, 10/22/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Lost Again??? Yo Lenny? To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 4:33 PM I cut from a previous message from Lenny: From Lenny on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:14 PM �They certainly didn't look like fry to me, so I would go with protein rich quality cichlid foods. What was the previous owner feeding them�? � I�m reading this post and seeing Sarah Huss name at the bottom of it.� Has Sarah posted pictures already?� Where?� Have they been ID? � And one question?� About fish by mail?� You folks can save me a phone call.� Reading on �That fish place�� where they give a price with a speciemen is that a mailed price each? �Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31704	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 10/22/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

LOL Im getting there...slowly but surely! =) Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails ARRRRRGHH ... ARRRRRRRGGGGHHH.. (Lenny straining trying to pull Heather, kicking and screaming, into the 21st Century) LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails Id be willing to pay for some of them, shipping and handling and a little extra. Im thinking I too need to set up a paypal account....LOL! I just usually do not buy much online I like to see what Im buying before I buy..a little old fashion...maybe! Who knows. Heather -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails Cindy, Considering that Apple Snails sell for an average of $5.00 each (smaller specimens for a dollar, larger specimens for much more), that would be some very expensive fish food. I think selling them or trading them for store credit at one or more LFS would be the practical thing to do. You're looking at around $500.00 crawling around in that tank. ;-) Priority Mail - 2-3 day service - (free boxes), not over 1 lb. (wouldn't be a problem for a couple of snails), would only be $4.80 shipping charges to anywhere in the USA... so for one or two snails in a package, a $10.00 fee would cover your shipping/handling and make you a little cash money. You might want to set up a PayPal account for accepting payments and spending your hard-earned money. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails Can you add a snail eatting fish into the tank? I just offered the same resolution to my co-worker and she got great results. She got a puffer fish who ate all her excess snails up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "jcjjj5" <jgilber1@...> wrote: > > Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer > system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know > what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local > store, but not a lot of luck in that. > Cindy > www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:35:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 10:54:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/22/2008 11:42:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 12:13:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31705	From: Rei - Raymond Tremor	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Question about clown loach

I bought 8 clown loaches cause I have snail infestation on my planted tank. How do you know which is male and female? Also, are they egg layers or live bearers? Thanks for the info that you could give me. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31706	From: Alina	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Hi, Love apple snails. I'm happy to take some too, though have no idea how one would ship apple snails. I'm in Florida. But here is a thought, if the LFS doesn't work out...I bet the local school system would be happy to take some...in grade school many, many teachers keep aquariums for educational purposes and to teach the kids responsibility (cleaning, feeding, etc). Try to see if any of the schools' classrooms would give one or two a piece a home. You could donate to a good cause. Tho I would donate each with an instruction sheet because teachers tend to be busy and may not know proper snail care. Good luck Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote: > > > I'm with lenny, I'd be interested in taking one or two off of your hands! I love snails but hate the reproduction rate. Since these are egg layers, that works out great! > Sarah > "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:15:54 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails > > > > > NO. Do not flush Apple Snails. If they happen to live and crawl out of thepipes/system some where, they can become a nuisance non-native species...you could also be breaking the law by releasing them.You should be able to find a LFS that would be willing to take some of them.You may need to find a couple of stores since 100 might be a lot for any onestore.You could also go to AquaBid.com and sell them privately there.. subject tolaws that might be applicable. I could probably take a couple off of yourhands too and there may be other members out here that might want one ortwo. Here's a good care sheet for any who may be thinking about this.http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php BTW...Which species of Apple Snails do you have? http://www.applesnail.net/content/species_genera.htmIf you still can't get rid of them, then you would need to destroy themfirst and dispose of them in your garbage.Last but not least, dispose of the egg clutches before they hatch next timeand save yourself a lot of trouble unless you develop one or more LFS thatwould take the baby snails off of your hands in the future.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of jcjjj5Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 6:55 PMTo: AquaticLife@...: [AquaticLife] Apple SnailsWould it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewersystem. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know whatto do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not alot of luck in that.Cindywww.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 7:01:54 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081022-1, 10/22/2008Tested on: 10/22/2008 7:15:54 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31707	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Question about clown loach

Here's a couple of good profiles on Clown Loaches that will answer these questions and give you a lot more info. I hope you have a really BIG tank or plans for one. Clown Loaches grow to well over 12" long and should get 16" to 20" if not stunted by being kept in an undersized tank for too long. They are egg layers but there is not much information on successful breeding in home aquariums... probably due to the fact that most people do not have a large enough aquarium for them. They should be kept in shoals of five or more... which you have done but for eight clown loaches, for long term success, you would need an 8'+ tank, with at least a couple of hundred gallons of water volume. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html http://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile13.html To read more on - sexing clown loach - to try and figure out your males from females, do a Google search with those terms and you will find many articles. This one showed up first when I did that search. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Berg_Clown_Loaches.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rei - Raymond Tremor Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 5:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about clown loach I bought 8 clown loaches cause I have snail infestation on my planted tank. How do you know which is male and female? Also, are they egg layers or live bearers? Thanks for the info that you could give me. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 9:55:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31708	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Also interested in buying some apple snails! At least 5 of them. Let us know if you can do this. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31709	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Question about clown loach

They are egg layers as most bottom dwellers are. Not sure about determining the sex but I've never encountered anyone that has had them breed in a common tank Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Rei - Raymond Tremor" <lovemoako@...> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 00:29:23 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about clown loach I bought 8 clown loaches cause I have snail infestation on my planted tank. How do you know which is male and female? Also, are they egg layers or live bearers? Thanks for the info that you could give me. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31710	From: identi1956	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: leaf compost

Excellent medium for white worm production. As an additive along with your usually feed or as the primary medium. Worms are larger and cultures last longer between changes. If interested contact me directly. Thanks, Pat McKown

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31711	From: bill1433	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: About Pictures?

Hi Lenny, � Thanks for the info about the pictures.� I got over there and didn�t leave until 2 this morning!�� Some great members tanks.� I did not see any from you?� Maybe just missed them, I was getting pretty blurrily eyed until I finished.� I don�t know how I missed her post about the pictures as I was following along her posts about the fish ID. � I�m thinking that this machine needs to be re-done.� Getting all kinds of messages up and keep getting thrown off the Internet by Dr.Watsons debugger then I have to run quick and save my work before the thing shuts down on me.. � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31712	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Babies are doing good

The fish are doing great this morning. They are really enjoying the tank to themselves. I also have a better photo of one. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew/view/907c?i=1025 my sis does cichlids and she said it looked like her red devil fry. On a side note Bill, I keep loosing emails too. Not the same ones as you do though cause I saw mine pop up, but I have not received others. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31713	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: About Pictures?

I'm not much of a picture taker for entertainment purposes only... especially since Hurricane Katrina hit down here. I do take tons of photos for my business which is why picture taking for pleasure gets put on the back burner. LOL I keep my pictures on my own online photo albums, rather than the yahoo groups album section. I've seen Yahoo do things over the years where people lost all of their photos so it's easier for me to have a separate online photo album and upload them there and provide a link to there if/when needed. It could still happen to one of these other sites which is why they are only there for redundancy since I keep all of my originals on my computer and online-offsite backup. I also keep them in a separate online album so when I am doing online postings/articles that require photos, I can easily insert the image into the article. Yahoo Groups individual photo URL's usually have characters (other than letters & numbers) that do not work when embedding a photo in another forum or blog article. I have some pics of my 65G goldfish tank when I first set it up, on my blog article - My DIY $20.00 BIG Tank Stand - at http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/my-diy-2000-big-tank-stand.html Here's one of my online photo album hosting sites but I mainly just upload photos that I need for one of my blog articles but there are probable some other tank photos in there as well, but they are probably a couple of years old. http://community.webshots.com/user/lennyvasbinder Yeah.. it sounds like your puter is ready for a severe tune-up or rebuild. You could try a Registry Repair first. I use WinASO Registry Optimizer, http://WinASO.com free for the trial version which is an unlimited time full function program except it will only clean 10 items at a time in the free mode so it would have to run many times the first time you clean your registry. I've been using this program for many years, going back to the Beta days, on several operating systems over the years and I've never had a single glitch associated with the repair work that it does. It's one of the first programs that I downloaded onto my new Vista Premium laptop to clean it up after removing all of the junk that comes pre-loaded on many new computers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] About Pictures? Hi Lenny, Thanks for the info about the pictures. I got over there and didn¢t leave until 2 this morning! Some great members tanks. I did not see any from you? Maybe just missed them, I was getting pretty blurrily eyed until I finished. I don¢t know how I missed her post about the pictures as I was following along her posts about the fish ID. I¢m thinking that this machine needs to be re-done. Getting all kinds of messages up and keep getting thrown off the Internet by Dr.Watsons debugger then I have to run quick and save my work before the thing shuts down on me.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 10:41:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Babies are doing good

Now you just need to learn to be content with those two fish in your 35G tank so doing more Raquascaping (yeah.. I just invented a new word... Rock Aquascaping = Raquascaping.. lol... I even did a Google on raquascaping and Google's never seen the word before... Call Daniel Webster!!!) will be a way to "fill" the tank without hurting the fish bioload/territory issues you would have if you added more fish. You may not want to use aquarium safe silicone too early in your Raquascaping efforts in the future since you might find yourself wanting to change it around on occasion or when adding new fish in a bigger tank. It's always a good idea to move stuff around with territorial fish when adding new fish so none of the fish have their own territory any longer so they are all starting off fresh again. Of course, your next step will be a much larger tank for a bigger African Cichlid community and then you can use your 35G for the fry. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Huss Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:08 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Babies are doing good The fish are doing great this morning. They are really enjoying the tank to themselves. I also have a better photo of one. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew/view/907c?i=1025 <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew/view/907c?i=1025> my sis does cichlids and she said it looked like her red devil fry. On a side note Bill, I keep loosing emails too. Not the same ones as you do though cause I saw mine pop up, but I have not received others. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 10:23:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 10:52:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa

Below is another email I received from the Craigslist ad... and my reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:33 AM To: 'cichlid333@...' Subject: RE: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) I'm not sure that shipping such a large fish is an option. It would require a crated container with enough water volume to insure sufficient dilution and water quality during the potentially multi-day trip. This would likely cost hundreds of dollars.... unless you are willing to pay that much? This is why we are trying to find someone in the Sacramento (Cali coast to Reno, NV) area. Thanks for your offer though. It's too bad you're not in the area. Lenny -----Original Message----- From: robert kolosowski Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:43 AM To: comm-885543621@... Subject: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) ** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY ** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home ** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping ** More Info: http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams.html hello i saw your post about bruse the moray eel, he is truely a bueaty may i add, i could provide him a great home if you would consider shipping, i live in clinton twp. michigan, and i could provide pics of my setups as well 700 gal. saltwater laggon. 600 gal. 300 gal. i definitly ghave the room for him please lmk if you would ship thanks ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:32:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:35:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31716	From: bill1433	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Babies are doing good

Thanks Sarah, I�m glad I�m not the only one.� But computer problems here a bound.� Getting a �Dr.Watson� check up and then promptly getting kicked off the Internet.� I�m looking at a full system re-load but I hesitate because basically I�m lazy and don�t want to spend a day in here loading programs back up. � I got to all your pictures (like your 30 something tank) last night thanks to Lenny and then I stayed until 2 this morning viewing everyone�s folders.� Many great set-ups on there and lots of ideas for later when I can finally get one myself. � Bill --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote: From: Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Babies are doing good To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 11:07 AM The fish are doing great this morning. They are really enjoying the tank to themselves. I also have a better photo of one. http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ spnew/view/ 907c?i=1025 my sis does cichlids and she said it looked like her red devil fry. On a side note Bill, I keep loosing emails too. Not the same ones as you do though cause I saw mine pop up, but I have not received others. Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31717	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa

I'm thinking SCAM!!!  Next thing you know they will be offering to send you a check for the fish, the shipping, and a "little extra for your trouble" and you get hit with problems when you try to cash it.  Be careful, some of these people are devious   Chris in Va --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:35 PM Below is another email I received from the Craigslist ad... and my reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:33 AM To: 'cichlid333@ yahoo.com' Subject: RE: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) I'm not sure that shipping such a large fish is an option. It would require a crated container with enough water volume to insure sufficient dilution and water quality during the potentially multi-day trip. This would likely cost hundreds of dollars.... unless you are willing to pay that much? This is why we are trying to find someone in the Sacramento (Cali coast to Reno, NV) area. Thanks for your offer though. It's too bad you're not in the area. Lenny -----Original Message----- From: robert kolosowski Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:43 AM To: comm-885543621@ craigslist. org Subject: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) ** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY ** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home ** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping ** More Info: http://www.craigsli st.org/about/ scams.html hello i saw your post about bruse the moray eel, he is truely a bueaty may i add, i could provide him a great home if you would consider shipping, i live in clinton twp. michigan, and i could provide pics of my setups as well 700 gal. saltwater laggon. 600 gal. 300 gal. i definitly ghave the room for him please lmk if you would ship thanks ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:32:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:35:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31718	From: bill1433	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Thanks Lenny!

I knew you must have taken pictures of something, somewhere! � Wow!� One picture, a thousand words?� Maybe so, but in my case 2,ooo questions!� Somewhere back you mentioned about that stand and I looked on your site for it but couldn�t find.� This mail included everything I wanted to know---------and then some! � Still waiting on the plumber (and doing a slow burn too) but even without that test kit yet I worked on the distilled water mixing with the well water you mentioned with one proviso.� We have one of those Brita water filter pitchers and I ran a � gallon of well-water through it first and then mixed with the distilled, no problems at all!� So whatever is in that water can be removed with a Brita filter or those fish would have all been dead on Monday past.� Next step will be a slight PWC with just the Brita, a dangerous move but worth the gamble.� We will get that test-kit as soon as I can stop treading water here!� No, its not that bad, just an annoying drip into a 5-gallon bucket but its one of those things that grate on your nerves, I�m sure you understand. � Thanks again, � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31719	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa

shipping of the package should always be pending clearing of the check. On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@...>wrote: > I'm thinking SCAM!!! Next thing you know they will be offering to send > you a check for the fish, the shipping, and a "little extra for your > trouble" and you get hit with problems when you try to cash it. Be careful, > some of these people are devious > > Chris in Va > > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...<GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce > The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:35 PM > > > Below is another email I received from the Craigslist ad... and my reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com] > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:33 AM > To: 'cichlid333@ yahoo.com' > Subject: RE: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass > Valley to Fort Bragg) > > I'm not sure that shipping such a large fish is an option. It would require > a crated container with enough water volume to insure sufficient dilution > and water quality during the potentially multi-day trip. This would likely > cost hundreds of dollars.... unless you are willing to pay that much? This > is why we are trying to find someone in the Sacramento (Cali coast to Reno, > NV) area. > > Thanks for your offer though. It's too bad you're not in the area. > > Lenny > > -----Original Message----- > From: robert kolosowski > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:43 AM > To: comm-885543621@ craigslist. org > Subject: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley > to Fort Bragg) > > ** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY > ** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home > ** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping > ** More Info: http://www.craigsli st.org/about/ scams.html > > hello i saw your post about bruse the moray eel, he is truely a bueaty may > i > add, i could provide him a great home if you would consider shipping, i > live > in clinton twp. michigan, and i could provide pics of my setups as well > > 700 gal. saltwater laggon. > 600 gal. > 300 gal. > > i definitly ghave the room for him please lmk if you would ship thanks > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:32:58 > AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 > Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:35:13 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31720	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa

I ran his Yahoo email address, cichlid333, through Google and found it was used many times in various SW and Reef forums so he might just be legit. That's the reason I replied to him. He might also post the quest to rescue Bruce into some SW forums that he frequents.... it's all about getting the word out to enough people. Besides... you shouldn't be too hard on him. Ya'll could be cousins-in-law judging from his last name and your hyphenated last name. ;-) (Kolosowski / Polski) LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) I'm thinking SCAM!!! Next thing you know they will be offering to send you a check for the fish, the shipping, and a "little extra for your trouble" and you get hit with problems when you try to cash it. Be careful, some of these people are devious Chris in Va --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:35 PM Below is another email I received from the Craigslist ad... and my reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:33 AM To: 'cichlid333@ yahoo.com' Subject: RE: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) I'm not sure that shipping such a large fish is an option. It would require a crated container with enough water volume to insure sufficient dilution and water quality during the potentially multi-day trip. This would likely cost hundreds of dollars.... unless you are willing to pay that much? This is why we are trying to find someone in the Sacramento (Cali coast to Reno, NV) area. Thanks for your offer though. It's too bad you're not in the area. Lenny -----Original Message----- From: robert kolosowski Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:43 AM To: comm-885543621@ craigslist. org Subject: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) ** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY ** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home ** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping ** More Info: http://www.craigsli st.org/about/ scams.html hello i saw your post about bruse the moray eel, he is truely a bueaty may i add, i could provide him a great home if you would consider shipping, i live in clinton twp. michigan, and i could provide pics of my setups as well 700 gal. saltwater laggon. 600 gal. 300 gal. i definitly ghave the room for him please lmk if you would ship thanks ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:32:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:35:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 12:15:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 12:44:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31721	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa

Use something like paypal to handle the monetary part of the transaction Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) shipping of the package should always be pending clearing of the check. On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@yahoo. <mailto:chris_o_p%40yahoo.com> com>wrote: > I'm thinking SCAM!!! Next thing you know they will be offering to send > you a check for the fish, the shipping, and a "little extra for your > trouble" and you get hit with problems when you try to cash it. Be careful, > some of these people are devious > > Chris in Va > > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com<GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce > The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:35 PM > > > Below is another email I received from the Craigslist ad... and my reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com] > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:33 AM > To: 'cichlid333@ yahoo.com' > Subject: RE: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass > Valley to Fort Bragg) > > I'm not sure that shipping such a large fish is an option. It would require > a crated container with enough water volume to insure sufficient dilution > and water quality during the potentially multi-day trip. This would likely > cost hundreds of dollars.... unless you are willing to pay that much? This > is why we are trying to find someone in the Sacramento (Cali coast to Reno, > NV) area. > > Thanks for your offer though. It's too bad you're not in the area. > > Lenny > > -----Original Message----- > From: robert kolosowski > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:43 AM > To: comm-885543621@ craigslist. org > Subject: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley > to Fort Bragg) > > ** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY > ** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home > ** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping > ** More Info: http://www.craigsli st.org/about/ scams.html > > hello i saw your post about bruse the moray eel, he is truely a bueaty may > i > add, i could provide him a great home if you would consider shipping, i > live > in clinton twp. michigan, and i could provide pics of my setups as well > > 700 gal. saltwater laggon. > 600 gal. > 300 gal. > > i definitly ghave the room for him please lmk if you would ship thanks > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:32:58 > AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 > Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:35:13 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31722	From: pam andress	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

To ship snails, you take your tank water that you get them out of. Take a paper towel and wet it in the water and squease out the water. You want the paper towen damp not dripping. Take the snails and wrap in the damp paper towel. Put this in a bag with air in the bag. Then you get a box and put styrofoam in the box. All side and top and bottom. Depending on weather you may need a heat pack. Put the bag of snails in the box and then stuff the box with newspaper to fill it. If useing a heat pack you need to put it in the box AWAY from the plastic bag the snails are in. They heat using oxygen and will take it out of the bag if touching it. Then ship priorty mail and then snails will be fine. Pam Hi,Love apple snails. I'm happy to take some too, though have no idea howone would ship apple snails. I'm in Florida.But here is a thought, if the LFS doesn't work out...I bet the localschool system would be happy to take some...in grade school many, manyteachers keep aquariums for educational purposes and to teach the kidsresponsibility (cleaning, feeding, etc). Try to see if any of theschools' classrooms would give one or two a piece a home. You coulddonate to a good cause. Tho I would donate each with an instructionsheet because teachers tend to be busy and may not know proper snailcare. Good luckAlina--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@...> wrote:>> > I'm with lenny, I'd be interested in taking one or two off of yourhands! I love snails but hate the reproduction rate. Since these areegg layers, that works out great!> Sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably wouldhave run scared the other way. However, you always find the strengthto meet whatever comes." -unknown . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31723	From: shakedownscott	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Question about Nitrifying Bacteria

Are the bacteria that convert Amonia and Nitite the same in fresh water versus salt water? I was just wondering if I could take a sponge filter from a fully cycled freshwater tank and plop it into a new saltwater tank and have it work without killing all of the bacteria. Scott

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrifying Bacteria

I believe they are different.... mainly because when Dr. Tim Hovanec was with Marineland, before starting his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com, they had different types of Bio-Spira for FW and SW and he has diffent "Dr. Tim's One And Only" products for FW and SW on his new site also. Further, when adding salt to a FW tank, just bringing it up to a treatment level which is still much less salty than SW, the salt level has to be brought up slowly so as to not kill off the nitrifying bacteria. This page, about half way down (but the last paper on the page right now), has one of Dr. Tim's peer reviewed papers talking about the difference between FW and SW N-bacteria. Be warned that it's kind of deep reading. Even the abstract is deep. LOL http://drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/SciencePapers/SciencePapers. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shakedownscott Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrifying Bacteria Are the bacteria that convert Amonia and Nitite the same in fresh water versus salt water? I was just wondering if I could take a sponge filter from a fully cycled freshwater tank and plop it into a new saltwater tank and have it work without killing all of the bacteria. Scott _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 2:51:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31725	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Digital Timers for Lighting

Often, we talk about putting our tank lighting on timers to make sure they are not left on too long and it's good for the fish to have a consistent schedule for "day" versus "night". I get a Harbor Freight email twice a week with coupons for some of the stuff they sell... with really good deals on the coupon items. The one that just came in has Digital Timers <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 > http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 for only $7.99 with the coupon. I'm not sure if you would get this current email with the coupon for this item if you signed up for their email list today but if you want the coupon(s), send me an email off-list and I'll forward a copy of my email so you will have the coupons, that's presuming you have a Harbor Freight nearby. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 3:06:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31726	From: Scott Jackson	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Question about Nitrifying Bacteria

Thanks Lenny, for the reply.  I never even considered the effects on N-bacteria from adding salt to a hospital tank.  I will have to be more careuful the next time I need to do this.  It sounds like the N-bacteria from FW can take some levels of salinity as long as it is introduced gradually and then at some higher salinity levels they die.  I guess that would make sense as it would be similar to FW fish.   ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:51:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about Nitrifying Bacteria I believe they are different... . mainly because when Dr. Tim Hovanec was with Marineland, before starting his own company, http://www.DrTimsAq uatics.com, they had different types of Bio-Spira for FW and SW and he has diffent "Dr. Tim's One And Only" products for FW and SW on his new site also. Further, when adding salt to a FW tank, just bringing it up to a treatment level which is still much less salty than SW, the salt level has to be brought up slowly so as to not kill off the nitrifying bacteria. This page, about half way down (but the last paper on the page right now), has one of Dr. Tim's peer reviewed papers talking about the difference between FW and SW N-bacteria. Be warned that it's kind of deep reading. Even the abstract is deep. LOL http://drtimsaquati cs.com/Library_ Presentations/ SciencePapers/ SciencePapers. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Recent Activity *  12 New Members *  16 New Photos *  1 New LinksVisit Your Group Sell Online Start selling with our award-winning e-commerce tools. Featured Y! Groups and category pages. There is something for everyone. Special K Group on Yahoo! Groups Join the challenge and lose weight. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31727	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Digital Timers for Lighting

Hi Lenny, Could I please impose on you to send me an e mail with the coupon for this digital timer? Thanks, Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 10/23/2008 1:06:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Digital Timers for Lighting Often, we talk about putting our tank lighting on timers to make sure they are not left on too long and it's good for the fish to have a consistent schedule for "day" versus "night". I get a Harbor Freight email twice a week with coupons for some of the stuff they sell... with really good deals on the coupon items. The one that just came in has Digital Timers <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 > http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 for only $7.99 with the coupon. I'm not sure if you would get this current email with the coupon for this item if you signed up for their email list today but if you want the coupon(s), send me an email off-list and I'll forward a copy of my email so you will have the coupons, that's presuming you have a Harbor Freight nearby. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 3:06:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31728	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Digital Timers for Lighting

OK, Bill, it's on it's way by separate email. Check your spam folder if you don't get it in your inbox. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digital Timers for Lighting Hi Lenny, Could I please impose on you to send me an e mail with the coupon for this digital timer? Thanks, Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 10/23/2008 1:06:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Digital Timers for Lighting Often, we talk about putting our tank lighting on timers to make sure they are not left on too long and it's good for the fish to have a consistent schedule for "day" versus "night". I get a Harbor Freight email twice a week with coupons for some of the stuff they sell... with really good deals on the coupon items. The one that just came in has Digital Timers <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 > > > http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 > for only $7.99 with the coupon. I'm not sure if you would get this current email with the coupon for this item if you signed up for their email list today but if you want the coupon(s), send me an email off-list and I'll forward a copy of my email so you will have the coupons, that's presuming you have a Harbor Freight nearby. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 3:06:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 4:19:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 4:24:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31729	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Digital Timers for Lighting

I thought the fish actually don't care. Any 24 hour timer should do it. Some are very inexpensive and able to take for instance the load you ahve on the power strip under your tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Digital Timers for Lighting Often, we talk about putting our tank lighting on timers to make sure they are not left on too long and it's good for the fish to have a consistent schedule for "day" versus "night". I get a Harbor Freight email twice a week with coupons for some of the stuff they sell... with really good deals on the coupon items. The one that just came in has Digital Timers <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 > http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 for only $7.99 with the coupon. I'm not sure if you would get this current email with the coupon for this item if you signed up for their email list today but if you want the coupon(s), send me an email off-list and I'll forward a copy of my email so you will have the coupons, that's presuming you have a Harbor Freight nearby. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 3:06:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31730	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours

How is stress coat an irritant? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 11:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours Right, not a bubble bath, but an irritant! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours I have well water so my water does not contain chlorine, I usually toss Stress Coat in when I am medicating for something fin/scale related. I think of it as doing the same as a relaxing bubble bath for the ill! Chris in VA --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 12:39 PM I keep MelaFix and PimaFix since they both have long shelf lives as long as they are kept tightly capped. I still have some Jungle Brand antibacterial and antiparasite food left over from when I adopted some sick fish a while back but I wouldn't keep it on hand unless I had a LOT of tanks and fish since I will likely lose most of the food in these bottles to expiration issues. If those other meds have a long shelf life (several years), then I guess it's not bad but I don't think they are needed as a general rule unless someone has a fish room and/or are getting their MTS (multiple tank syndrome) fixes (i.e.-adding lots of new tanks). ;-) On a side note, I never really thought of Stress-Coat as a medicine. It's touted more as a dechlor with added Aloe Vera and slime coat enhancers and mostly marketed towards new fish keepers... who may not realize it's not needed. I wouldn't use it as a dechlor product since there is no need for those other things being dumped into a tank on a continual basis and plain table salt is a better stress reliever and slime coat enhancer. The chloride in salt increases gill function and efficiency so the fish can breath easier and get more O2 from each breath and the sodium is a mild irritant so the fish create a thicker slime coat on their own. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:02 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:39:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31731	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: foul smelling water

No, not normal. Most likely you have hydrogen sulfide building up under the gravel. You'll have to clean it thoroughly quickly and do a major water change. Hydrogen sulfide smells like rotten eggs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "greychildren" <greychildren@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 5:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] foul smelling water Hey guys i was wondering newbie question here My ammonia level is at 0.02 nitrite and nitrate are at perfect level and is at perfect Ph is at 6.8. but there is this foul dirt smell coming from the tank is this normal? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31732	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: leaf compost

Sorry. We get enough leaf compost around here in the fall! LOL! And no, I"m not bringing that mold-ridden stuff in the house to grow worms in. If I wanted to grow worms, they'd have to make do with corn meal. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "identi1956" <identi1956@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] leaf compost Excellent medium for white worm production. As an additive along with your usually feed or as the primary medium. Worms are larger and cultures last longer between changes. If interested contact me directly. Thanks, Pat McKown ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31733	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: leaf compost

Good compost shouldn't have mold. It should have myocorzical fungi which release nutrients into easy to absorb forms. Very healthy stuff for anything you can grow in it! -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Sorry. We get enough leaf compost around here in the fall! LOL! And > no, I"m not bringing that mold-ridden stuff in the house to grow worms in. > If I wanted to grow worms, they'd have to make do with corn meal. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31734	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa

You can all rest assured, he will be hand delivered and set up where ever he ends up going. This will either be done by me or his caretaker at the moment. Nobody here is just trying to pawn off this guy, we are trying to find him a forever home. I had hoped since I was making a trip out of town anyways we would be lucky to find him a home and make use of the trip, but we will still be searching for a home even after the trip date. So as long as you folks are passing the word, someone will come forward. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@...> wrote: > > I'm thinking SCAM!!!  Next thing you know they will be offering to send you a check for the fish, the shipping, and a "little extra for your trouble" and you get hit with problems when you try to cash it.  Be careful, some of these people are devious >   > Chris in Va > > --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:35 PM > > > > > > > Below is another email I received from the Craigslist ad... and my reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com] > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:33 AM > To: 'cichlid333@ yahoo.com' > Subject: RE: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass > Valley to Fort Bragg) > > I'm not sure that shipping such a large fish is an option. It would require > a crated container with enough water volume to insure sufficient dilution > and water quality during the potentially multi-day trip. This would likely > cost hundreds of dollars.... unless you are willing to pay that much? This > is why we are trying to find someone in the Sacramento (Cali coast to Reno, > NV) area. > > Thanks for your offer though. It's too bad you're not in the area. > > Lenny > > -----Original Message----- > From: robert kolosowski > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:43 AM > To: comm-885543621@ craigslist. org > Subject: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley > to Fort Bragg) > > ** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY > ** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home > ** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping > ** More Info: http://www.craigsli st.org/about/ scams.html > > hello i saw your post about bruse the moray eel, he is truely a bueaty may i > add, i could provide him a great home if you would consider shipping, i live > in clinton twp. michigan, and i could provide pics of my setups as well > > 700 gal. saltwater laggon. > 600 gal. > 300 gal. > > i definitly ghave the room for him please lmk if you would ship thanks > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:32:58 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 > Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:35:13 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31735	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sa

WRONG answer!  LOL, that was my married name and yahoo won't change it without forcing me to get a new ID, then I have to rejoin all my groups, and etc., redo my address books, I'd lose several of the groups I run, etc, etc, etc.....   Chris in VA --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 1:44 PM I ran his Yahoo email address, cichlid333, through Google and found it was used many times in various SW and Reef forums so he might just be legit. That's the reason I replied to him. He might also post the quest to rescue Bruce into some SW forums that he frequents... . it's all about getting the word out to enough people. Besides... you shouldn't be too hard on him. Ya'll could be cousins-in-law judging from his last name and your hyphenated last name. ;-) (Kolosowski / Polski) LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) I'm thinking SCAM!!! Next thing you know they will be offering to send you a check for the fish, the shipping, and a "little extra for your trouble" and you get hit with problems when you try to cash it. Be careful, some of these people are devious Chris in Va --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: PLEASE HELP BRUCE - : Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:35 PM Below is another email I received from the Craigslist ad... and my reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:33 AM To: 'cichlid333@ yahoo.com' Subject: RE: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) I'm not sure that shipping such a large fish is an option. It would require a crated container with enough water volume to insure sufficient dilution and water quality during the potentially multi-day trip. This would likely cost hundreds of dollars.... unless you are willing to pay that much? This is why we are trying to find someone in the Sacramento (Cali coast to Reno, NV) area. Thanks for your offer though. It's too bad you're not in the area. Lenny -----Original Message----- From: robert kolosowski Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:43 AM To: comm-885543621@ craigslist. org Subject: Please Help Rescue Bruce The Moray Eel (Sacramento - Grass Valley to Fort Bragg) ** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY ** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home ** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping ** More Info: http://www.craigsli st.org/about/ scams.html hello i saw your post about bruse the moray eel, he is truely a bueaty may i add, i could provide him a great home if you would consider shipping, i live in clinton twp. michigan, and i could provide pics of my setups as well 700 gal. saltwater laggon. 600 gal. 300 gal. i definitly ghave the room for him please lmk if you would ship thanks ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:32:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 11:35:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 12:15:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 12:44:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31736	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours

It is my understanding that the way stress coat works is to stimulate the fish’s own natural slime coat production by slightly irritating the fish’s skin. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours How is stress coat an irritant? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 11:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours Right, not a bubble bath, but an irritant! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours I have well water so my water does not contain chlorine, I usually toss Stress Coat in when I am medicating for something fin/scale related. I think of it as doing the same as a relaxing bubble bath for the ill! Chris in VA --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 12:39 PM I keep MelaFix and PimaFix since they both have long shelf lives as long as they are kept tightly capped. I still have some Jungle Brand antibacterial and antiparasite food left over from when I adopted some sick fish a while back but I wouldn't keep it on hand unless I had a LOT of tanks and fish since I will likely lose most of the food in these bottles to expiration issues. If those other meds have a long shelf life (several years), then I guess it's not bad but I don't think they are needed as a general rule unless someone has a fish room and/or are getting their MTS (multiple tank syndrome) fixes (i.e.-adding lots of new tanks). ;-) On a side note, I never really thought of Stress-Coat as a medicine. It's touted more as a dechlor with added Aloe Vera and slime coat enhancers and mostly marketed towards new fish keepers... who may not realize it's not needed. I wouldn't use it as a dechlor product since there is no need for those other things being dumped into a tank on a continual basis and plain table salt is a better stress reliever and slime coat enhancer. The chloride in salt increases gill function and efficiency so the fish can breath easier and get more O2 from each breath and the sodium is a mild irritant so the fish create a thicker slime coat on their own. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:02 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:39:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31737	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours

Oh. I thought it coated it! The label on the API Stress Coat says that it contains aloe vera which promotes healing and regeneration of damaged fish tissue and forms a synthetic slime coat to help prevent electrolyte loss." I don't expect that the latter would be something aloe vera does. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours It is my understanding that the way stress coat works is to stimulate the fish's own natural slime coat production by slightly irritating the fish's skin. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours How is stress coat an irritant? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 11:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours Right, not a bubble bath, but an irritant! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens-Polski Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours I have well water so my water does not contain chlorine, I usually toss Stress Coat in when I am medicating for something fin/scale related. I think of it as doing the same as a relaxing bubble bath for the ill! Chris in VA --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 12:39 PM I keep MelaFix and PimaFix since they both have long shelf lives as long as they are kept tightly capped. I still have some Jungle Brand antibacterial and antiparasite food left over from when I adopted some sick fish a while back but I wouldn't keep it on hand unless I had a LOT of tanks and fish since I will likely lose most of the food in these bottles to expiration issues. If those other meds have a long shelf life (several years), then I guess it's not bad but I don't think they are needed as a general rule unless someone has a fish room and/or are getting their MTS (multiple tank syndrome) fixes (i.e.-adding lots of new tanks). ;-) On a side note, I never really thought of Stress-Coat as a medicine. It's touted more as a dechlor with added Aloe Vera and slime coat enhancers and mostly marketed towards new fish keepers... who may not realize it's not needed. I wouldn't use it as a dechlor product since there is no need for those other things being dumped into a tank on a continual basis and plain table salt is a better stress reliever and slime coat enhancer. The chloride in salt increases gill function and efficiency so the fish can breath easier and get more O2 from each breath and the sodium is a mild irritant so the fish create a thicker slime coat on their own. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Owens Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:02 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishy First Aid Kit - what's in yours What does everyone keep on hand in regard to aquarium/fishy first aid? I usually have Stress Coat, Melafix, Maracide, Bactricide (sp?) and a few others. Chris in VA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081016-0, 10/16/2008 Tested on: 10/17/2008 11:39:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31738	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: leaf compost

Lana, it is not possible to have compost without mold. Especially not composted leaves, but I doubt composted anything. And I'm very allergic to a number of molds. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lana Gibbons" <lana.m.gibbons@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] leaf compost Good compost shouldn't have mold. It should have myocorzical fungi which release nutrients into easy to absorb forms. Very healthy stuff for anything you can grow in it! -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Sorry. We get enough leaf compost around here in the fall! LOL! And > no, I"m not bringing that mold-ridden stuff in the house to grow worms in. > If I wanted to grow worms, they'd have to make do with corn meal. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31739	From: Sarah Huss	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Babies are doing good

Larger tank! Ha HA HA! My family is already making fun of me and I think my hubby would litterally kill me if I brought home another one! :-) I think this will be my largest tank, atleast until the kids move out (they are 18 months and 3 years) so that will be awhile! Sarah "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scared the other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatever comes." -unknown EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:52:56 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Babies are doing good Now you just need to learn to be content with those two fish in your 35Gtank so doing more Raquascaping (yeah.. I just invented a new word... RockAquascaping = Raquascaping.. lol... I even did a Google on raquascaping andGoogle's never seen the word before... Call Daniel Webster!!!) will be a wayto "fill" the tank without hurting the fish bioload/territory issues youwould have if you added more fish.You may not want to use aquarium safe silicone too early in yourRaquascaping efforts in the future since you might find yourself wanting tochange it around on occasion or when adding new fish in a bigger tank. It'salways a good idea to move stuff around with territorial fish when addingnew fish so none of the fish have their own territory any longer so they areall starting off fresh again.Of course, your next step will be a much larger tank for a bigger AfricanCichlid community and then you can use your 35G for the fry.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Sarah HussSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:08 AMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Babies are doing goodThe fish are doing great this morning. They are really enjoying the tank tothemselves. I also have a better photo of one.http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew/view/907c?i=1025<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew/view/907c?i=1025>my sis does cichlids and she said it looked like her red devil fry.On a side note Bill, I keep loosing emails too. Not the same ones as you dothough cause I saw mine pop up, but I have not received others.Sarah"With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as it comes. Ifsomeone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably would have run scaredthe other way. However, you always find the strength to meet whatevercomes." -unknown[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008Tested on: 10/23/2008 10:23:11 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008Tested on: 10/23/2008 10:52:55 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31740	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/23/2008
Subject: Re: Digital Timers for Lighting

Thanks Lenny, I got it Bill -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 10/23/08 14:24:30 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Digital Timers for Lighting OK, Bill, it's on it's way by separate email. Check your spam folder if you don't get it in your inbox. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William J. Scott Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digital Timers for Lighting Hi Lenny, Could I please impose on you to send me an e mail with the coupon for this digital timer? Thanks, Bill Scott -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 10/23/2008 1:06:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Digital Timers for Lighting Often, we talk about putting our tank lighting on timers to make sure they are not left on too long and it's good for the fish to have a consistent schedule for "day" versus "night". I get a Harbor Freight email twice a week with coupons for some of the stuff they sell... with really good deals on the coupon items. The one that just came in has Digital Timers <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 > > > http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 <http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=95205 > for only $7.99 with the coupon. I'm not sure if you would get this current email with the coupon for this item if you signed up for their email list today but if you want the coupon(s), send me an email off-list and I'll forward a copy of my email so you will have the coupons, that's presuming you have a Harbor Freight nearby. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 3:06:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 4:19:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081023-0, 10/23/2008 Tested on: 10/23/2008 4:24:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31741	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Missing fish

Hey Everyone, Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched everywhere, in filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons yet, I'm worried! Any ideas? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31742	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly

Hey Lenny! Nope, my Betta is still having his identity crisis, had to move him into my 10 with a male Guppy and he still completely ignores him, LOL! Love him! But you're right, in general, this is not normal for a Betta, mine is just too cool. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:35:21 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly Remember, that information was about a 10G tank, not a 55G tank. BIG difference! Territorial issues are not as much of a problem in a 55G tank compared to the very limited surface area of a 10G and the other fish are able to more easily avoid him if/when he is being defensive compared to what might happen in a 10G tank. There will always be exceptions to every rule or guideline... much like there are regularly reports of a feeder fish living side by side with the fish that was it was supposed to be a meal for... or the little white mouse that lives along side the snake for which it was supposed to be a meal. As far as the female bettas, yes, it's more common for the male to lose out in a battle with a female since they are much faster swimmers. While the pretty fins might look pretty on a male Betta, they do not lend themselves to as much maneuverability. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly Hey Lenny + Gang, How funny, my male Betta must be having an identity crisis! He shares his new 55 with just about all the contra indicated fish you mentioned + he is totally peaceful with just about all of them, except for the occasional gill flaring + only for my 1 Dwarf Gourami, who gets the message fast + takes off to the other end of the tank. LOL! He doesn't bother my African Dwarf Frog, my 16 Ghost Shrimp or my 4 Mystery Snails. He also shares the surface with my fast swimming 3 Glolight Danios and my 4 female and 2 Male Big Tailed Fancy Guppies and he completely ignores them. He has never even flared at them. I know this is not the normal demeanor for a male Betta, but I consider myself very lucky that he has such a peaceful personality. I even threw my 2 female Bettas in there as a test to see if they could share the tank, and he was totally scared of them. In fact they made it a point to gang up + chase him around. As soon as they began nipping at his beautiful tail, I yanked them out as they were being the aggressors. I know I sound crazy to the avg. Person, non-fish maniac, but I love my Betta and I'm so proud of him + his great personality. I got lucky when I picked him. :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:57:50 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly Check out my blog article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". Here's a snip of the section on Betta's (see the entire article for more details but your neon's and otos should be fine... but not all Betta's read the same things we do ;-)) Were you planning on a school of neon's or a shoal of otos? A 10G wouldn't be big enough for both of them and the Betta. (START SNIP) *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good tank mates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesnt eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the betta you choose. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I just found 2 - 10 gal tanks at Goodwill for $37 together. I can separated the neons and oto's with my Betta. They don't try to eat my betta like the Molly did. Will he eat the tetras? Thanks Jennie --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 1:57 PM If you read the result of your hydrometer correctly--remember , it needs to be corrected for temperature, you do not have a measurable quantity of salt in your tank. Your tetras and otto cats would prefer no salt added, while your mollies and platys would probably do better with a small amount of salt added. In other words, these are fish you probably do not want to mix. However, since you already have, they should do OK together. In the future, though, remember that mollies and platys are more suited to a harder more base water, while the ottos and neons are suited more for softer, more acid water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 4:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of my tank? Thanks, Jennie --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM Hi Jennie, Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and your experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly recently... or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could also do it. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one fish at first. Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your other fish so it's being affected the fastest. Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make it an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will match the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some kind. She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 Tested on: 10/21/2008 9:35:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31743	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think my clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are non toxic ;) --Dave On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@...> wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched everywhere, in > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not today, > didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons yet, I'm > worried! Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31744	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly

My beta lived in my community tank for a while. he was very much all about sitting in this little clay rock thing i had, that had a window in it. he would go in there and sit up like a little old man looking out the window waiting for some kids to walk in the grass so he could yell at them. pretty much was his favorite place. stayed there pretty much all the time. he did some patrolling but not all that often. On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 2:05 PM, <bubuci@...> wrote: > Hey Lenny! > > Nope, my Betta is still having his identity crisis, had to move him into my > 10 with a male Guppy and he still completely ignores him, LOL! Love him! But > you're right, in general, this is not normal for a Betta, mine is just too > cool. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:35:21 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly > > > Remember, that information was about a 10G tank, not a 55G tank. BIG > difference! Territorial issues are not as much of a problem in a 55G tank > compared to the very limited surface area of a 10G and the other fish are > able to more easily avoid him if/when he is being defensive compared to > what > might happen in a 10G tank. > > There will always be exceptions to every rule or guideline... much like > there are regularly reports of a feeder fish living side by side with the > fish that was it was supposed to be a meal for... or the little white mouse > > that lives along side the snake for which it was supposed to be a meal. > > As far as the female bettas, yes, it's more common for the male to lose out > > in a battle with a female since they are much faster swimmers. While the > pretty fins might look pretty on a male Betta, they do not lend themselves > to as much maneuverability. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bubuci@... <bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta Identity Crisis - panting Molly > > Hey Lenny + Gang, > > How funny, my male Betta must be having an identity crisis! He shares his > new 55 with just about all the contra indicated fish you mentioned + he is > totally peaceful with just about all of them, except for the occasional > gill > flaring + only for my 1 Dwarf Gourami, who gets the message fast + takes > off > to the other end of the tank. LOL! > > He doesn't bother my African Dwarf Frog, my 16 Ghost Shrimp or my 4 Mystery > > Snails. He also shares the surface with my fast swimming 3 Glolight Danios > and my 4 female and 2 Male Big Tailed Fancy Guppies and he completely > ignores them. He has never even flared at them. > > I know this is not the normal demeanor for a male Betta, but I consider > myself very lucky that he has such a peaceful personality. I even threw my > 2 > female Bettas in there as a test to see if they could share the tank, and > he > was totally scared of them. In fact they made it a point to gang up + chase > > him around. As soon as they began nipping at his beautiful tail, I yanked > them out as they were being the aggressors. > > I know I sound crazy to the avg. Person, non-fish maniac, but I love my > Betta and I'm so proud of him + his great personality. I got lucky when I > picked him. :D > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:57:50 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly > > > Check out my blog article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". > Here's a snip of the section on Betta's (see the entire article for more > details but your neon's and otos should be fine... but not all Betta's read > > the same things we do ;-)) Were you planning on a school of neon's or a > shoal of otos? A 10G wouldn't be big enough for both of them and the Betta. > > > (START SNIP) > *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it > > best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good > > tank mates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras > > and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be > appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only > one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesnt eat them. > > Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast > swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well > in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the > tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any > species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the > color > of the betta you choose. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> ] > On Behalf Of Jennie > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly > > I just found 2 - 10 gal tanks at Goodwill for $37 together. I can separated > > the neons and oto's with my Betta. They don't try to eat my betta like the > Molly did. Will he eat the tetras? > Thanks > Jennie > > --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...<steve%40familyszabo.com> > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com <steve%2540familyszabo.com>> <mailto: > steve%40familyszabo.com <steve%2540familyszabo.com>> > wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <steve%40familyszabo.com><mailto: > steve%40familyszabo.com <steve%2540familyszabo.com>> > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com <steve%2540familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 1:57 PM > > If you read the result of your hydrometer correctly--remember , it needs to > > be corrected for temperature, you do not have a measurable quantity of salt > > in your tank. > > Your tetras and otto cats would prefer no salt added, while your mollies > and > platys would probably do better with a small amount of salt added. In other > > words, these are fish you probably do not want to mix. However, since you > already have, they should do OK together. In the future, though, remember > that mollies and platys are more suited to a harder more base water, while > the ottos and neons are suited more for softer, more acid water. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > On Behalf Of Jennie > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 4:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly > > No I didn't have the other skinny or pregnant Mollies. I had the Goldfish > that I cycled my tank with 9 lived. I tested my water then got my tropical > fish and the pet store took the goldfish back. > I did a 20% water change and changed my filter. Now the Molly is fine. I > tested the salt content with a hydometer it read 1.000. I read that tetras > and plants don't like salt, couldn't find anything about Mollies. I have > been feeding them Brine Shrimp also read it increase the salt in water. > I also have a 5 way strip I tested it at NO3 is 0, NO2 is 0, PH is 6.5, Alk > > is between 0-80, TH is 0. I tested the ammonia 0. > About me and my fish. I'm a beginner trying not to kill all my fish!!!! > I have a 45 gal tall tank 36Lx12Wx24H with a whisper filter. I put Hornwort > > in the tank. I have 4 Mollies, 5 Neon Tetras, 6 Platys, and 3 Oto Cats. I > had a betta in the tank with them but it didn't work the Dalmation Mollie > chewed him up!! So he's by himself again. Should I get all the salt out of > my tank? > Thanks, > Jennie > > --- On Sat, 10/18/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] panting Molly > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 7:52 PM > > Hi Jennie, > > Tell us more. What size tank? And more history and info on the tank and > your > experience level. Are you the person that had the pregnant molly > recently... > or the skinny molly? If yes, what ever happened to that/those fish? If not, > > tell us more about what you do have in the tank. How long has the tank been > > set up and running? Was the tank fully cycled (the nitrogen cycle)? > > Since you mention that you had the water tested at the store four days ago > and then you added six neon's yesterday, have you been testing your water > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc., since then? You could be having an > > ammonia or nitrite spike which could cause your symptoms. A pH drop could > also do it. > > If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should really get one. Checking > the water parameters should be the first thing done whenever a fish isn't > acting right. Some fish, even of the same species, have a higher level of > tolerance for change or bad water so something bad might only affect one > fish at first. > > Did you quarantine the new fish for a couple of weeks or did you just add > them to your main tank? Since one of the new fish died, there's a chance > that they brought something like a parasite or other pathogen into the tank > > with them and maybe your one molly has a weaker immune system than your > other fish so it's being affected the fastest. > > Anyhow, it's hard to speculate too much without more info, so answer the > questions I've asked and give us as much as you can think of.... and make > it > an immediate goal to get a Master Test Kit. Walmart sells the > Tetratest-Laborette kit for around $15.00. PetsMart.com sells the API kit > for around the same price and if you print the webpage, the store will > match > the price, saving you at least $10.00 off the shelf price. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 1:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] panting Molly > > I have a silver Molly that looks OK except she keeps panting and sitting on > > the bottom. She started this yesterday before that she was playing with the > > other Molly. Do they pant when in labor? Or is this a parasite of some > kind. > She's not skinny or really fat either. I'm not sure what to do for her. My > water was tested 4 days ago when I bought her and I did a water change just > > before that. I added 6 Neon tetras to my tank yesterday one died this > morning, the others are fine. I would appreciated any ideas and help. > Jennie > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081021-0, 10/21/2008 > Tested on: 10/21/2008 9:35:21 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31745	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

David, You're probably right, he probably ended up being one expensive snack for another fish in my tank @ 5.99 + tax ea. Glo Fish! Weird thing is, they are not supposed to be painted, but I had frozen one that died on me and when he began to thaw, the color began to run. Strange huh? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:11:26 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think my clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are non toxic ;) --Dave On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@...> wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched everywhere, in > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not today, > didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons yet, I'm > worried! Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31746	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

They are genetically modified supposedly. if the coloring is a fluid in their skin, freezing them would break the cell membranes releasing the fluids and you could get the running maybe. i would be curious how exactly these critters come to be... On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:54 PM, <bubuci@...> wrote: > David, > > You're probably right, he probably ended up being one expensive snack for > another fish in my tank @ 5.99 + tax ea. Glo Fish! > > Weird thing is, they are not supposed to be painted, but I had frozen one > that died on me and when he began to thaw, the color began to run. Strange > huh? > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <azzuron%40gmail.com>> > > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:11:26 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think my > clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are non > toxic > ;) > > --Dave > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@...<bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>> > wrote: > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched everywhere, > in > > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not today, > > didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons yet, I'm > > worried! Any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31747	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

http://www.glofish.com/faq.asp will explain how they came to be. We actually had one of the glofish representatives posting here a while back... at least I think it was this group... when someone at a university joined the group to start giving away hybrid glofish which was prohibited by glofish's patents and licensing. At least I think that was what the debate was about. It's not a dye or anything like that. As far as the color running, I would contact GloFish to see what they say. I've never frozen a fish and then let it defrost to see what happens to pigmentation in the skin. Well, I take that back a little... I have caught fish (for eating) and put them in an ice chest full of ice so they froze until I got ready to prep them but I don't recall the speckles on the speckled trout ever running. If one of my fancy goldfish ever die, I'll try to remember to freeze it and then later defrost it to see if any of the colors run. They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are genetically modified supposedly. if the coloring is a fluid in their skin, freezing them would break the cell membranes releasing the fluids and you could get the running maybe. i would be curious how exactly these critters come to be... On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:54 PM, <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > wrote: > David, > > You're probably right, he probably ended up being one expensive snack > for another fish in my tank @ 5.99 + tax ea. Glo Fish! > > Weird thing is, they are not supposed to be painted, but I had frozen > one that died on me and when he began to thaw, the color began to run. > Strange huh? > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > <azzuron%40gmail.com>> > > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:11:26 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think > my clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are > non toxic > ;) > > --Dave > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>> > wrote: > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched > > everywhere, > in > > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not > > today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons > > yet, I'm worried! Any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008 Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:15:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008 Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:43:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31748	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Haha. well my thinking is that pigment wont run, but if it is some other way of coloring through genetics its possible. like a fluid that their body produces that is kept in the skin or muscle tissues. who knows. i would be curious to know what the glofish ppl think of it though. Not sure i would want to own these little guys myself... im not sure how i feela bout a fish that glows in the dark haha... On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > http://www.glofish.com/faq.asp will explain how they came to be. We > actually had one of the glofish representatives posting here a while > back... > at least I think it was this group... when someone at a university joined > the group to start giving away hybrid glofish which was prohibited by > glofish's patents and licensing. At least I think that was what the debate > was about. > > It's not a dye or anything like that. As far as the color running, I would > contact GloFish to see what they say. I've never frozen a fish and then let > it defrost to see what happens to pigmentation in the skin. Well, I take > that back a little... I have caught fish (for eating) and put them in an > ice > chest full of ice so they froze until I got ready to prep them but I don't > recall the speckles on the speckled trout ever running. If one of my fancy > goldfish ever die, I'll try to remember to freeze it and then later defrost > it to see if any of the colors run. > > They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition > to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive > species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods > affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, > it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would > compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > They are genetically modified supposedly. if the coloring is a fluid in > their skin, freezing them would break the cell membranes releasing the > fluids and you could get the running maybe. i would be curious how exactly > these critters come to be... > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:54 PM, <bubuci@...<bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net <bubuci%2540tmo.blackberry.net>> > > wrote: > > > David, > > > > You're probably right, he probably ended up being one expensive snack > > for another fish in my tank @ 5.99 + tax ea. Glo Fish! > > > > Weird thing is, they are not supposed to be painted, but I had frozen > > one that died on me and when he began to thaw, the color began to run. > > Strange huh? > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <azzuron%40gmail.com> <mailto: > azzuron%40gmail.com <azzuron%2540gmail.com>> > > <azzuron%40gmail.com>> > > > > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:11:26 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > > > > Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think > > my clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are > > non toxic > > ;) > > > > --Dave > > > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@...<bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net <bubuci%2540tmo.blackberry.net>> > <bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>> > > wrote: > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > > > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched > > > everywhere, > > in > > > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not > > > today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons > > > yet, I'm worried! Any ideas? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Tania > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008 > Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:15:26 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008 > Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:43:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31749	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

David, GloFish- They are supposedly from what I read injected with DNA from jellyfish and coral. Correct me if I am wrong. That is why I found it weird when the color ran. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:08:16 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are genetically modified supposedly. if the coloring is a fluid in their skin, freezing them would break the cell membranes releasing the fluids and you could get the running maybe. i would be curious how exactly these critters come to be... On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:54 PM, <bubuci@...> wrote: > David, > > You're probably right, he probably ended up being one expensive snack for > another fish in my tank @ 5.99 + tax ea. Glo Fish! > > Weird thing is, they are not supposed to be painted, but I had frozen one > that died on me and when he began to thaw, the color began to run. Strange > huh? > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <azzuron%40gmail.com>> > > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:11:26 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think my > clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are non > toxic > ;) > > --Dave > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@...<bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>> > wrote: > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched everywhere, > in > > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not today, > > didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons yet, I'm > > worried! Any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31750	From: pam andress	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

I had 2 glofish and a danio. I sold them at a fish auction because I didn't want them any more. Two days later I went to turn off the light from the tank they had been in and found a bunch of babies. They are half and half glofish to danios, so it was a mix breeding. They are now about 4 weeks old and about the size of new guppy fry. So that tells you how little they were when they hatched. I didn't know what was in the water moving at first, until I noticed some looked pinkish. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:43:04 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish http://www.glofish.com/faq.asp will explain how they came to be. Weactually had one of the glofish representatives posting here a while back...at least I think it was this group... when someone at a university joinedthe group to start giving away hybrid glofish which was prohibited byglofish's patents and licensing. At least I think that was what the debatewas about.It's not a dye or anything like that. As far as the color running, I wouldcontact GloFish to see what they say. I've never frozen a fish and then letit defrost to see what happens to pigmentation in the skin. Well, I takethat back a little... I have caught fish (for eating) and put them in an icechest full of ice so they froze until I got ready to prep them but I don'trecall the speckles on the speckled trout ever running. If one of my fancygoldfish ever die, I'll try to remember to freeze it and then later defrostit to see if any of the colors run.They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major oppositionto them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasivespecies, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floodsaffecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild,it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish wouldcompete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of David KeymelSent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:08 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fishThey are genetically modified supposedly. if the coloring is a fluid intheir skin, freezing them would break the cell membranes releasing thefluids and you could get the running maybe. i would be curious how exactlythese critters come to be...On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:54 PM, <bubuci@...<mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > wrote:> David,>> You're probably right, he probably ended up being one expensive snack> for another fish in my tank @ 5.99 + tax ea. Glo Fish!>> Weird thing is, they are not supposed to be painted, but I had frozen> one that died on me and when he began to thaw, the color began to run.> Strange huh?>> Cheers,> Tania> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>> -----Original Message-----> From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > <azzuron%40gmail.com>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:11:26> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish>>> Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think> my clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are> non toxic> ;)>> --Dave>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@...> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>>> wrote:>> > Hey Everyone,> >> > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched> > everywhere,> in> > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not> > today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons> > yet, I'm worried! Any ideas?> >> > Thanks,> > Tania> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile> >> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:15:26 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:43:03 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31751	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

http://www.time.com/time/2003/inventions/invfish.html Check this out on Glo Fish Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:43:04 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish http://www.glofish.com/faq.asp will explain how they came to be. We actually had one of the glofish representatives posting here a while back... at least I think it was this group... when someone at a university joined the group to start giving away hybrid glofish which was prohibited by glofish's patents and licensing. At least I think that was what the debate was about. It's not a dye or anything like that. As far as the color running, I would contact GloFish to see what they say. I've never frozen a fish and then let it defrost to see what happens to pigmentation in the skin. Well, I take that back a little... I have caught fish (for eating) and put them in an ice chest full of ice so they froze until I got ready to prep them but I don't recall the speckles on the speckled trout ever running. If one of my fancy goldfish ever die, I'll try to remember to freeze it and then later defrost it to see if any of the colors run. They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are genetically modified supposedly. if the coloring is a fluid in their skin, freezing them would break the cell membranes releasing the fluids and you could get the running maybe. i would be curious how exactly these critters come to be... On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:54 PM, <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > wrote: > David, > > You're probably right, he probably ended up being one expensive snack > for another fish in my tank @ 5.99 + tax ea. Glo Fish! > > Weird thing is, they are not supposed to be painted, but I had frozen > one that died on me and when he began to thaw, the color began to run. > Strange huh? > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > <azzuron%40gmail.com>> > > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:11:26 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think > my clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are > non toxic > ;) > > --Dave > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>> > wrote: > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched > > everywhere, > in > > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not > > today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons > > yet, I'm worried! Any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008 Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:15:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008 Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:43:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31752	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

They actually only glow with a blacklight, they don't really glow in the dark, they are just neon colored. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:57:31 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Haha. well my thinking is that pigment wont run, but if it is some other way of coloring through genetics its possible. like a fluid that their body produces that is kept in the skin or muscle tissues. who knows. i would be curious to know what the glofish ppl think of it though. Not sure i would want to own these little guys myself... im not sure how i feela bout a fish that glows in the dark haha... On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > http://www.glofish.com/faq.asp will explain how they came to be. We > actually had one of the glofish representatives posting here a while > back... > at least I think it was this group... when someone at a university joined > the group to start giving away hybrid glofish which was prohibited by > glofish's patents and licensing. At least I think that was what the debate > was about. > > It's not a dye or anything like that. As far as the color running, I would > contact GloFish to see what they say. I've never frozen a fish and then let > it defrost to see what happens to pigmentation in the skin. Well, I take > that back a little... I have caught fish (for eating) and put them in an > ice > chest full of ice so they froze until I got ready to prep them but I don't > recall the speckles on the speckled trout ever running. If one of my fancy > goldfish ever die, I'll try to remember to freeze it and then later defrost > it to see if any of the colors run. > > They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition > to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive > species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods > affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, > it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would > compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > They are genetically modified supposedly. if the coloring is a fluid in > their skin, freezing them would break the cell membranes releasing the > fluids and you could get the running maybe. i would be curious how exactly > these critters come to be... > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:54 PM, <bubuci@...<bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net <bubuci%2540tmo.blackberry.net>> > > wrote: > > > David, > > > > You're probably right, he probably ended up being one expensive snack > > for another fish in my tank @ 5.99 + tax ea. Glo Fish! > > > > Weird thing is, they are not supposed to be painted, but I had frozen > > one that died on me and when he began to thaw, the color began to run. > > Strange huh? > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <azzuron%40gmail.com> <mailto: > azzuron%40gmail.com <azzuron%2540gmail.com>> > > <azzuron%40gmail.com>> > > > > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:11:26 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > > > > Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think > > my clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are > > non toxic > > ;) > > > > --Dave > > > > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@...<bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net <bubuci%2540tmo.blackberry.net>> > <bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>> > > wrote: > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > > > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched > > > everywhere, > > in > > > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not > > > today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons > > > yet, I'm worried! Any ideas? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Tania > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008 > Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:15:26 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >_____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008 > Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:43:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31753	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Pam! How cute! Just curios, how much did you auction them for and what did you feed the little fry? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:10:44 To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish I had 2 glofish and a danio. I sold them at a fish auction because I didn't want them any more. Two days later I went to turn off the light from the tank they had been in and found a bunch of babies. They are half and half glofish to danios, so it was a mix breeding. They are now about 4 weeks old and about the size of new guppy fry. So that tells you how little they were when they hatched. I didn't know what was in the water moving at first, until I noticed some looked pinkish. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:43:04 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish http://www.glofish.com/faq.asp will explain how they came to be. Weactually had one of the glofish representatives posting here a while back...at least I think it was this group... when someone at a university joinedthe group to start giving away hybrid glofish which was prohibited byglofish's patents and licensing. At least I think that was what the debatewas about.It's not a dye or anything like that. As far as the color running, I wouldcontact GloFish to see what they say. I've never frozen a fish and then letit defrost to see what happens to pigmentation in the skin. Well, I takethat back a little... I have caught fish (for eating) and put them in an icechest full of ice so they froze until I got ready to prep them but I don'trecall the speckles on the speckled trout ever running. If one of my fancygoldfish ever die, I'll try to remember to freeze it and then later defrostit to see if any of the colors run.They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major oppositionto them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasivespecies, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floodsaffecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild,it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish wouldcompete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of David KeymelSent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:08 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fishThey are genetically modified supposedly. if the coloring is a fluid intheir skin, freezing them would break the cell membranes releasing thefluids and you could get the running maybe. i would be curious how exactlythese critters come to be...On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:54 PM, <bubuci@...<mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > wrote:> David,>> You're probably right, he probably ended up being one expensive snack> for another fish in my tank @ 5.99 + tax ea. Glo Fish!>> Weird thing is, they are not supposed to be painted, but I had frozen> one that died on me and when he began to thaw, the color began to run.> Strange huh?>> Cheers,> Tania> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>> -----Original Message-----> From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > <azzuron%40gmail.com>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:11:26> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish>>> Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think> my clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are> non toxic> ;)>> --Dave>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@...> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>>> wrote:>> > Hey Everyone,> >> > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched> > everywhere,> in> > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not> > today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons> > yet, I'm worried! Any ideas?> >> > Thanks,> > Tania> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile> >> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:15:26 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:43:03 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31754	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Weather/Dojo Loach?

Hey Gang, Does anyone have experience with Weather or Dojo Loaches? I'm considering getting one, I know you are supposed to have a group, but my tank can't handle it. I can do 1, but 3 will be overcrowded I think. How many gallons per Dojo and will they do ok with regular gravel? What do they like to eat? What color do most of you prefer, Gold or Original? Will they bother my Mystery Snails or Ghost Shrimp? Will they get on with a Blue Ram? Thanks in advance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31755	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Boesemani Rainbow

Hey Gang, Here's another one for ya! Does anyone have experience with Bosemani Rainbow Fish? I am thinking about getting some and would love to hear more about them and what makes their colors change, what they like to eat, etc. Are they peaceful, do they need hiding places? Will a Dojo loach stress them out? I've read a few profiles, but wanted to hear about personal experience. Thanks in advance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31756	From: pam andress	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

I have no idea what they sold for. I don't remember. After all that was a whole month ago. lol As for the fry, I feed them golden pearls. It is a powder food I have for small fry. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: bubuci@...: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:51:00 +0000Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Pam! How cute! Just curios, how much did you auction them for and what did you feed the little fry? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:10:44 To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish I had 2 glofish and a danio. I sold them at a fish auction because I didn't want them any more. Two days later I went to turn off the light from the tank they had been in and found a bunch of babies. They are half and half glofish to danios, so it was a mix breeding. They are now about 4 weeks old and about the size of new guppy fry. So that tells you how little they were when they hatched. I didn't know what was in the water moving at first, until I noticed some looked pinkish. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:43:04 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish http://www.glofish.com/faq.asp will explain how they came to be. Weactually had one of the glofish representatives posting here a while back...at least I think it was this group... when someone at a university joinedthe group to start giving away hybrid glofish which was prohibited byglofish's patents and licensing. At least I think that was what the debatewas about.It's not a dye or anything like that. As far as the color running, I wouldcontact GloFish to see what they say. I've never frozen a fish and then letit defrost to see what happens to pigmentation in the skin. Well, I takethat back a little... I have caught fish (for eating) and put them in an icechest full of ice so they froze until I got ready to prep them but I don'trecall the speckles on the speckled trout ever running. If one of my fancygoldfish ever die, I'll try to remember to freeze it and then later defrostit to see if any of the colors run.They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major oppositionto them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasivespecies, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floodsaffecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild,it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish wouldcompete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-)Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of David KeymelSent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:08 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fishThey are genetically modified supposedly. if the coloring is a fluid intheir skin, freezing them would break the cell membranes releasing thefluids and you could get the running maybe. i would be curious how exactlythese critters come to be...On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:54 PM, <bubuci@...<mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > wrote:> David,>> You're probably right, he probably ended up being one expensive snack> for another fish in my tank @ 5.99 + tax ea. Glo Fish!>> Weird thing is, they are not supposed to be painted, but I had frozen> one that died on me and when he began to thaw, the color began to run.> Strange huh?>> Cheers,> Tania> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>> -----Original Message-----> From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > <azzuron%40gmail.com>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:11:26> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish>>> Ive had this problem to. i just don't bother looking anymore. I think> my clown loaches eat them... I don't have glo fish tho. hope they are> non toxic> ;)>> --Dave>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, <bubuci@...> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>>> wrote:>> > Hey Everyone,> >> > Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched> > everywhere,> in> > filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not> > today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons> > yet, I'm worried! Any ideas?> >> > Thanks,> > Tania> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile> >> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:15:26 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081024-0, 10/24/2008Tested on: 10/24/2008 3:43:03 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31757	From: pam andress	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow

Here is a link I found on rainbow fish. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Melano.htm You can look up all sorts of rainbows there. Th Boesemani link is http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Boesemani.htm This is the one I like http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Gertrud.htm Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: bubuci@...: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:01:07 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Boesemani Rainbow Hey Gang,Here's another one for ya! Does anyone have experience with Bosemani Rainbow Fish? I am thinking about getting some and would love to hear more about them and what makes their colors change, what they like to eat, etc. Are they peaceful, do they need hiding places? Will a Dojo loach stress them out? I've read a few profiles, but wanted to hear about personal experience. Thanks in advance. Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31758	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Anyone using X-10 controllers to control light pumps, feeders?

Recently a local TFH gave me a bunch of tanks and accessories including X-10 controllers. Has anyone used them for controlling lights, pumps, feeders, etc? Also, where do we find free software controlling X-10 devices? Im assuming that there is a cheap X-10 controller avail that connects to the computer thru Ethernet, USB, of RS-232. Thanks for any ideas or info. Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31759	From: Peaches	Date: 10/24/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone using X-10 controllers to control light pumps, feeders?

Hi Jim, I used to beta test for a program called Hal2000. It stood for Home automated Living. It used X-10 controllers. There are other programs out there but you might want to check these and see if you find anything to your liking. Remember that the controllers work on a radio frequency. They do not work in all types of homes. You can purchase a booster though and that should help you out. www.automatedliving.com www.smarthome.com www.x10.com HAL was voice controlled. You picked up your phone and pressed the pound (#) sign. The software then answered and you gave it commands. "Turn on Coffee pot for 1 hour" "Dim lights to 30%" "Turn on sprinkler system for 30 minutes" Things like that. I also remember Radio Shack selling some sort of X-10 controllers but don't know about software. Anyway I hope this helps you out for a start. Good Luck, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:11 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Anyone using X-10 controllers to control light pumps, feeders? Recently a local TFH gave me a bunch of tanks and accessories including X-10 controllers. Has anyone used them for controlling lights, pumps, feeders, etc? Also, where do we find free software controlling X-10 devices? Im assuming that there is a cheap X-10 controller avail that connects to the computer thru Ethernet, USB, of RS-232. Thanks for any ideas or info. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31760	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone using X-10 controllers to control light pumps, feeders?

Hi Jim, Yes, I use X10 devices for all kinds of stuff in my Pond in the back yard. The controllers can be found at Radio Shack, Menard's and many hardware stores. The software RS232 connector transmitter is more a gimmick than a useful device. It pretty much gives you the same as a smaller controller so I say, why bother just to see it on the screen. There is a company that specializes in these kinds of things- something like remote house or some such name. I also use and find useful the hand held remote that can do a nice job. Well with the cold weather, I am building a pond cover structure with 1/4" sheet of polycarbonate- I can send you a picture when it is done if you want to see the monstrosity. */Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago /* *Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs.* Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim wrote: > > > Recently a local TFH gave me a bunch of tanks and accessories > including X-10 controllers. Has anyone used them for controlling > lights, pumps, feeders, etc? > > Also, where do we find free software controlling X-10 devices? Im > assuming that there is a cheap X-10 controller avail that connects to > the computer thru Ethernet, USB, of RS-232. > > Thanks for any ideas or info. > > Jim > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31761	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

In a message dated 10/24/2008 4:33:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, bubuci@... writes: David, GloFish- They are supposedly from what I read injected with DNA from jellyfish and coral. Correct me if I am wrong. That is why I found it weird when the color ran. HMM, SOME YEARS BACK i THOUGHT i READ GLOFISH WERE MEDAKAS WITH JELLY FISH DNA, THE GLOFISH THEY SELL ARE ZEBRA AND TO ME THEY LOK AS PAINTED AS THE PAINTED GLASS FISH. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. ENID "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31762	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

A glofish is a kind of danio. Danios are experts at getting hung up ni some small tight place and dying. To find him you'll more than likely have to dismantle teh tank, and I suggest doing that before his body decomposes into little pieces that get everywhere, the tank fouls, and you can't get all the little pieces. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Hey Everyone, Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched everywhere, in filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons yet, I'm worried! Any ideas? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31763	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31764	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Dora! Ok, so dismantling would mean....? Take apart filters? Sift through gravel? Anything else? How do I know when the tank is fowling? The smell? How long does that take? The others won't eat the dead fish? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:43:59 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish A glofish is a kind of danio. Danios are experts at getting hung up ni some small tight place and dying. To find him you'll more than likely have to dismantle teh tank, and I suggest doing that before his body decomposes into little pieces that get everywhere, the tank fouls, and you can't get all the little pieces. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Hey Everyone, Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched everywhere, in filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons yet, I'm worried! Any ideas? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31765	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow

Pam! Nice, thanks for the links! Nice fave too. Guess what I discovered? www.rainbowroom.com, check out the Millenium Rainbow, its blood red and breath taking! I wonder if I can get the LFS to order it for me. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:39:13 To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Boesemani Rainbow Here is a link I found on rainbow fish. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Melano.htm You can look up all sorts of rainbows there. Th Boesemani link is http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Boesemani.htm This is the one I like http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Gertrud.htm Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: bubuci@...: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:01:07 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Boesemani Rainbow Hey Gang,Here's another one for ya! Does anyone have experience with Bosemani Rainbow Fish? I am thinking about getting some and would love to hear more about them and what makes their colors change, what they like to eat, etc. Are they peaceful, do they need hiding places? Will a Dojo loach stress them out? I've read a few profiles, but wanted to hear about personal experience. Thanks in advance. Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31766	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Enid! You may be right, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaka check this out. But the ones being sold now in the US are Zebra Danios. I agree that they do appear to be painted, however, distributors claim otherwise. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Gwydryn@... Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:12:25 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish In a message dated 10/24/2008 4:33:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, bubuci@... writes: David, GloFish- They are supposedly from what I read injected with DNA from jellyfish and coral. Correct me if I am wrong. That is why I found it weird when the color ran. HMM, SOME YEARS BACK i THOUGHT i READ GLOFISH WERE MEDAKAS WITH JELLY FISH DNA, THE GLOFISH THEY SELL ARE ZEBRA AND TO ME THEY LOK AS PAINTED AS THE PAINTED GLASS FISH. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. ENID "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31767	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: [SPAM]RE: [AquaticLife] Boesemani Rainbow

i have 14 bosemani rainbows in a 120 gal tank with a big group of s. multipunctatus. they are easy to care for, my ph is about 7.5, tank temp is maintained at 79-80 degrees. they are very peacuful, do not seem to need hiding places as they are always out and about. i would not think one dojo loach would stress them out.(can't say the same for the loach) i just moved them and their tank to a new home and within 10 minutes in new water they were zipping around. i feed them a large variety of flake food and frozen bloodworms which they go crazy for. they do get to be quite a good size, i would think a 55 gal tank would be the minimum. they also like to swim against a current. i have the output from one of the the tank's canister filters directed so they can swim against it. males a are a lot more colorful then females. i believe that they act act as dither fish for the multi's since the multi's are mostly out also. ----- Original Message ----- From: pam andress To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 06:39 PM Subject: [SPAM]RE: [AquaticLife] Boesemani Rainbow Here is a link I found on rainbow fish. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Melano.htm You can look up all sorts of rainbows there. Th Boesemani link is http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Boesemani.htm This is the one I like http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Gertrud.htm Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: bubuci@...: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:01:07 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Boesemani Rainbow Hey Gang,Here's another one for ya! Does anyone have experience with Bosemani Rainbow Fish? I am thinking about getting some and would love to hear more about them and what makes their colors change, what they like to eat, etc. Are they peaceful, do they need hiding places? Will a Dojo loach stress them out? I've read a few profiles, but wanted to hear about personal experience. Thanks in advance. Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31768	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Dora, They claim they are a nuisance when released in the wild because they compete for food with the native species, therefore causing a lack of food for the native species and native species possibly not surviving because of lack of food. It offsets nature, therefore, nuisance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:46:26 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31769	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?

I've never kept them, but like all fish, the best bet is to try and provide them with their preferred environment... including tank size, shoaling mates, etc., but I'm sure people have been successful with them outside of their preferred parameters. They are cool water fish, not tropical fish, and your snails/shrimp may become snacks. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/weather-loach-misgurnis-anguillicaudatu s http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_dojo.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Hey Gang, Does anyone have experience with Weather or Dojo Loaches? I'm considering getting one, I know you are supposed to have a group, but my tank can't handle it. I can do 1, but 3 will be overcrowded I think. How many gallons per Dojo and will they do ok with regular gravel? What do they like to eat? What color do most of you prefer, Gold or Original? Will they bother my Mystery Snails or Ghost Shrimp? Will they get on with a Blue Ram? Thanks in advance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:17:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31770	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Yes, some of the early experiments were done on Ricefish (Medakas) but the GloFish being sold by many pet stores in the U.S. are genetically enhanced Zebra Danios but the first GloFish (the trademarked name for the glowing Zebra Danios) were enhanced with various Marine genetics, while still embryos, to give them their various colors. It's not the same as "painted" fish since painted fish are manually tattooed or injected into each fish, after birth, where the GloFish actually are born with their neon-type coloration, passed on by their parents. Most fish hobbyists feel that painted and tattooed fish are inhumane procedures, as do I, but I don't think glofish are inhumane, just not necessary. I'm all for genetic testing, etc., but not when it's done for purely commercially applicable cosmetic reasons. It's different if it's being done to save lives, help people, help animals, etc... but just to make a glowing fish that can be sold for ten times more money? I'm all for capitalism but I'd rather have natural looking fish. Even though I have some fancy goldfish, I also feel the same way about them. When I bought mine, I didn't realize what the Dr. Frankenstein's out there had done to create the fancy goldfish varieties like I now know. Unfortunately, it's hard to turn back the hands of time so all I can do now is give them the best home I can and provide proper information on their care to others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish In a message dated 10/24/2008 4:33:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> writes: David, GloFish- They are supposedly from what I read injected with DNA from jellyfish and coral. Correct me if I am wrong. That is why I found it weird when the color ran. HMM, SOME YEARS BACK i THOUGHT i READ GLOFISH WERE MEDAKAS WITH JELLY FISH DNA, THE GLOFISH THEY SELL ARE ZEBRA AND TO ME THEY LOK AS PAINTED AS THE PAINTED GLASS FISH. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. ENID "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:56:24 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31771	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:23:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31772	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow

One possible way to get your LFS to order them is to see if Segrest Farms sells them and then see if your LFS is a retailer. Both of my LFS buy from Segrest Farms... and probably others as well but I only know how to search on the Segrest Farms site since most others do not make their catalogs visible to non-retailers. Start here... http://www.segrestfarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.search Type in Rainbow Millenium or the latin name Glossolepis pseudoincisus and you'll see they have Reg(ular) and Lge(large) specimens for sale. Next, at the top of their page, choose Locate A Pet Shop and enter your zip code to find stores that buy from them and I'm sure one of those stores would be willing to order some with their next order. Hopefully your favorite LFS is already a customer. My local PetsMart even used to be listed but it's no longer listed. Maybe PetsMart corporate changed their distributors. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Boesemani Rainbow Pam! Nice, thanks for the links! Nice fave too. Guess what I discovered? www.rainbowroom.com, check out the Millenium Rainbow, its blood red and breath taking! I wonder if I can get the LFS to order it for me. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:39:13 To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Boesemani Rainbow Here is a link I found on rainbow fish. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Melano.htm <http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Melano.htm> You can look up all sorts of rainbows there. Th Boesemani link is http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Boesemani.htm <http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Boesemani.htm> This is the one I like http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Gertrud.htm <http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Gertrud.htm> Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netDate> : Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:01:07 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Boesemani Rainbow Hey Gang,Here's another one for ya! Does anyone have experience with Bosemani Rainbow Fish? I am thinking about getting some and would love to hear more about them and what makes their colors change, what they like to eat, etc. Are they peaceful, do they need hiding places? Will a Dojo loach stress them out? I've read a few profiles, but wanted to hear about personal experience. Thanks in advance. Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:34:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31773	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Personally, I wouldn't worry about dismantling the tank unless or until you see ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels climbing uncontrollably. Just test your water on a regular basis for the next week or so and if you don't see water quality problems, then it's likely not to become a problem. If the other fish already ate it, then they will have processed the "food" and it would just become more fish poop in the tank which can be handled by an extra PWC, as needed... as if you overfed the fish. Vacuuming the gravel with each PWC will remove the majority of any detritus in your tank. Doing proper filter maintenance will remove any that got sucked up by the filter. It wouldn't hurt to reveres-flush out the intake tube of your filter on your next scheduled filter maintenance if you don't have an intake tube screen on the intake tube. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 9:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora! Ok, so dismantling would mean....? Take apart filters? Sift through gravel? Anything else? How do I know when the tank is fowling? The smell? How long does that take? The others won't eat the dead fish? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:43:59 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish A glofish is a kind of danio. Danios are experts at getting hung up ni some small tight place and dying. To find him you'll more than likely have to dismantle teh tank, and I suggest doing that before his body decomposes into little pieces that get everywhere, the tank fouls, and you can't get all the little pieces. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Hey Everyone, Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched everywhere, in filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons yet, I'm worried! Any ideas? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:00:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:39:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31774	From: gardn4brds	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: starting tank over

Okay so you all said the mold was really nothing just plant decaying. So nothing in the tank for amonth now and I have to just go and take some dead leaves off a couple of plants today nothing major. Tested the water and nitrate was at 0. nitrite was at 0. but the ph was barely 6.0 SO how do I raise the ph I want to have guppies in this tnak so what do I do to get it ready for them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31775	From: hank voss	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: They have also done it to cats now.Next its us!!!!! Hank ========================================= > > Yes, some of the early experiments were done on Ricefish (Medakas) but the > GloFish being sold by many pet stores in the U.S. are genetically enhanced > Zebra Danios but the first GloFish (the trademarked name for the glowing > Zebra Danios) were enhanced with various Marine genetics, while still > embryos, to give them their various colors. > > It's not the same as "painted" fish since painted fish are manually tattooed > or injected into each fish, after birth, where the GloFish actually are born > with their neon-type coloration, passed on by their parents. > > Most fish hobbyists feel that painted and tattooed fish are inhumane > procedures, as do I, but I don't think glofish are inhumane, just not > necessary. I'm all for genetic testing, etc., but not when it's done for > purely commercially applicable cosmetic reasons. It's different if it's > being done to save lives, help people, help animals, etc... but just to make > a glowing fish that can be sold for ten times more money? I'm all for > capitalism but I'd rather have natural looking fish. > > Even though I have some fancy goldfish, I also feel the same way about them. > When I bought mine, I didn't realize what the Dr. Frankenstein's out there > had done to create the fancy goldfish varieties like I now know. > Unfortunately, it's hard to turn back the hands of time so all I can do now > is give them the best home I can and provide proper information on their > care to others. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Gwydryn@... > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > In a message dated 10/24/2008 4:33:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> writes: > > David, > GloFish- They are supposedly from what I read injected with DNA from > jellyfish and coral. Correct me if I am wrong. That is why I found it weird > when the color ran. > > HMM, SOME YEARS BACK i THOUGHT i READ GLOFISH WERE MEDAKAS WITH JELLY FISH > DNA, THE GLOFISH THEY SELL ARE ZEBRA AND TO ME THEY LOK AS PAINTED AS THE > PAINTED GLASS FISH. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. > > ENID > > "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in > a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, > thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW- -What a > Ride!!!" > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:56:24 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31776	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: starting tank over

The pH in a tank that has an ecology of any type will see the pH drop. The way to keep the pH stable in a tank is doing weekly PWC's (10% to 25% or more depending on the bioload... and maybe more frequently than weekly if the bioload is heavy or the tank is undersized). Advanced life forms (and possibly all life forms) on earth are carbon based so they will use up trace elements and minerals that show up as a number in the KH and GH test results. As these life forms (bacteria, plants, fish, etc.) use up these trace elements, the pH will drop... especially when the KH levels are diminished. What is your tap/source water baseline? See my blog for my short article on "Finding Your Tap/Source Water Baseline". Let us know your baseline numbers compared to your tank numbers. If your baseline pH is 6.0, then you'll be best to go with fish that prefer a low pH (there are many)... but if your tank's pH is low due to improper maintenance, that would cause the pH to crash to a low level. Start doing daily 25% PWC's (using dechlor of course) and after a week, test the tank again and see what the pH and other numbers are up to. You should be doing a fishless cycle on the tank to build up the needed nitrifying bacteria before adding fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardn4brds Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] starting tank over Okay so you all said the mold was really nothing just plant decaying. So nothing in the tank for amonth now and I have to just go and take some dead leaves off a couple of plants today nothing major. Tested the water and nitrate was at 0. nitrite was at 0. but the ph was barely 6.0 SO how do I raise the ph I want to have guppies in this tnak so what do I do to get it ready for them? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:49:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31777	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Well.. if I could go back and have a little genetic enhancement done, I might just be up for it! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: They have also done it to cats now.Next its us!!!!! Hank ========================================= > > Yes, some of the early experiments were done on Ricefish (Medakas) but the > GloFish being sold by many pet stores in the U.S. are genetically enhanced > Zebra Danios but the first GloFish (the trademarked name for the glowing > Zebra Danios) were enhanced with various Marine genetics, while still > embryos, to give them their various colors. > > It's not the same as "painted" fish since painted fish are manually tattooed > or injected into each fish, after birth, where the GloFish actually are born > with their neon-type coloration, passed on by their parents. > > Most fish hobbyists feel that painted and tattooed fish are inhumane > procedures, as do I, but I don't think glofish are inhumane, just not > necessary. I'm all for genetic testing, etc., but not when it's done for > purely commercially applicable cosmetic reasons. It's different if it's > being done to save lives, help people, help animals, etc... but just to make > a glowing fish that can be sold for ten times more money? I'm all for > capitalism but I'd rather have natural looking fish. > > Even though I have some fancy goldfish, I also feel the same way about them. > When I bought mine, I didn't realize what the Dr. Frankenstein's out there > had done to create the fancy goldfish varieties like I now know. > Unfortunately, it's hard to turn back the hands of time so all I can do now > is give them the best home I can and provide proper information on their > care to others. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Gwydryn@... > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > In a message dated 10/24/2008 4:33:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> writes: > > David, > GloFish- They are supposedly from what I read injected with DNA from > jellyfish and coral. Correct me if I am wrong. That is why I found it weird > when the color ran. > > HMM, SOME YEARS BACK i THOUGHT i READ GLOFISH WERE MEDAKAS WITH JELLY FISH > DNA, THE GLOFISH THEY SELL ARE ZEBRA AND TO ME THEY LOK AS PAINTED AS THE > PAINTED GLASS FISH. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. > > ENID > > "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in > a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, > thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW- -What a > Ride!!!" > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 > 10:56:24 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:42:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:52:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31778	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Fish tank heater emergency i think

I know large temp fluctuation is bad. Some how my heater got set to a very high temperature the other night i guess, i dont know when or exactly how. But the main thing is right now my tanks temp is 90 Degrees. My fish are all very active, which i thought was rather odd as they generally are a lot slower and more relaxed. So what should i do to bring my tank into a normal temp range? Should i just set the heater to an appropriate temp and let the heat dissipate? or should i lower the temp over days with the setting? If i should incrementally adjust how many days should i do it over and about how many degerees? I tihnk i need a new heater this ones settings change when you bump it funny and you have no idea what its temerature settings are really set at. its just one of those relative things. --Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31779	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31780	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Yeah. That's why I started with the "Do a search...". And then I left out the words "some of" when referencing that page "You'll see (some of) them listed on this page". Like most government related websites... and most websites in general, they aren't updated very often and often do not even have a date on the article so a reader will know if it's recent info or old info. I've been trying to include dates when I might update a page on my blog, with new information, but I'm sometimes derelict in that offense myself. The blog articles are dated when I first type them though so at least that gives some kind of a date. Dang.. I hate when I'm not perfect! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 1:36:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

Lower it back to normal temps slowly. No more than 1-2F per day. Lowering it too much, too fast could be detrimental and is one of the leading causes of an Ich outbreak. Yep. It sounds like it's time for a new heater. I recently posted where, I think MarineDepot.com, had a nice series of heaters on clearance sale for pretty good prices. Nope.. I just decided to search the group myself and here is my post about Aquarium Heaters... It was DrsFosterSmith.com that had them on sale. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31307 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think I know large temp fluctuation is bad. Some how my heater got set to a very high temperature the other night i guess, i dont know when or exactly how. But the main thing is right now my tanks temp is 90 Degrees. My fish are all very active, which i thought was rather odd as they generally are a lot slower and more relaxed. So what should i do to bring my tank into a normal temp range? Should i just set the heater to an appropriate temp and let the heat dissipate? or should i lower the temp over days with the setting? If i should incrementally adjust how many days should i do it over and about how many degerees? I tihnk i need a new heater this ones settings change when you bump it funny and you have no idea what its temerature settings are really set at. its just one of those relative things. --Dave _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 1:42:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31782	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

I just realized my link broke on my original post so you'll have to go to http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, click on the Fish tab, then on the right, the Clearance link, then the Heater link and then the actual item. It's too bad that Yahoo Groups insists on breaking long links. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think I know large temp fluctuation is bad. Some how my heater got set to a very high temperature the other night i guess, i dont know when or exactly how. But the main thing is right now my tanks temp is 90 Degrees. My fish are all very active, which i thought was rather odd as they generally are a lot slower and more relaxed. So what should i do to bring my tank into a normal temp range? Should i just set the heater to an appropriate temp and let the heat dissipate? or should i lower the temp over days with the setting? If i should incrementally adjust how many days should i do it over and about how many degerees? I tihnk i need a new heater this ones settings change when you bump it funny and you have no idea what its temerature settings are really set at. its just one of those relative things. --Dave _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 1:45:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31783	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

Thanks lenny thats what i thought... im off to buy a new heater at a local store, i dont want to deal with this thing anymore. i was nervous about it to begin with, but it seemed to be ok once we got it set. heater function is ok, its just poorly designed. Thanks. On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > I just realized my link broke on my original post so you'll have to go > to > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, click on the Fish tab, then on the right, > the > Clearance link, then the Heater link and then the actual item. It's too bad > that Yahoo Groups insists on breaking long links. > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think > > I know large temp fluctuation is bad. Some how my heater got set to a very > high temperature the other night i guess, i dont know when or exactly how. > But the main thing is right now my tanks temp is 90 Degrees. My fish are > all > very active, which i thought was rather odd as they generally are a lot > slower and more relaxed. So what should i do to bring my tank into a normal > temp range? Should i just set the heater to an appropriate temp and let the > heat dissipate? or should i lower the temp over days with the setting? If i > should incrementally adjust how many days should i do it over and about how > many degerees? I tihnk i need a new heater this ones settings change when > you bump it funny and you have no idea what its temerature settings are > really set at. its just one of those relative things. > > --Dave > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/25/2008 1:45:11 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31784	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

If you have a PetsMart nearby, go to their site first and print out some of the pages on the heaters they sell, if you bring the internet page with you. The local stores will match the online prices saving you some money. I usually save 30-50% off the shelf price on things. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Thanks lenny thats what i thought... im off to buy a new heater at a local store, i dont want to deal with this thing anymore. i was nervous about it to begin with, but it seemed to be ok once we got it set. heater function is ok, its just poorly designed. Thanks. On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > I just realized my link broke on my original post so you'll have to go > to http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> > click on the Fish tab, then on the right, the Clearance link, then the > Heater link and then the actual item. It's too bad that Yahoo Groups > insists on breaking long links. > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think > > I know large temp fluctuation is bad. Some how my heater got set to a > very high temperature the other night i guess, i dont know when or exactly how. > But the main thing is right now my tanks temp is 90 Degrees. My fish > are all very active, which i thought was rather odd as they generally > are a lot slower and more relaxed. So what should i do to bring my > tank into a normal temp range? Should i just set the heater to an > appropriate temp and let the heat dissipate? or should i lower the > temp over days with the setting? If i should incrementally adjust how > many days should i do it over and about how many degerees? I tihnk i > need a new heater this ones settings change when you bump it funny and > you have no idea what its temerature settings are really set at. its > just one of those relative things. > > --Dave > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 > 1:45:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 1:50:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 1:52:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31785	From: Lana Gibbons	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

Lenny, I have the perfect solution for long links. Go to www.tinyurl.com paste the long url in the box and click the button to make a TinyURL. These tinyurls literally last for years (the oldest I have tested is a 4 year old one and it still worked just fine)! :) -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > I just realized my link broke on my original post so you'll have to go to > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, click on the Fish tab, then on the right, > the > Clearance link, then the Heater link and then the actual item. It's too > bad > that Yahoo Groups insists on breaking long links. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

Yeah, I know about TinyURL but it's still a shame that Yahoo Groups won't just let a long link through. It's one of the only forums that I deal with that has this issue. What's the logic to breaking links? I could drabble on for countless paragraphs so it's not the total amount of text and most other websites/forums allow multi-line length links. I guess I could understand it when the posts come through to people's email clients like Outlook or OE, etc., if they have their settings a certain way, but the main Yahoo Group webpage shouldn't be breaking the link.. IMO... especially considering the length of the links they embed in emails when it pertains to the Yahoo Group itself (See the bottom of this email for the outrageous lengths of their own links). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Lenny, I have the perfect solution for long links. Go to www.tinyurl.com paste the long url in the box and click the button to make a TinyURL. These tinyurls literally last for years (the oldest I have tested is a 4 year old one and it still worked just fine)! :) -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > I just realized my link broke on my original post so you'll have to go > to http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> > click on the Fish tab, then on the right, the Clearance link, then the > Heater link and then the actual item. It's too bad that Yahoo Groups > insists on breaking long links. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 1:58:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 2:03:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31787	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Broken Links in Messages WAS [RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater eme

Lenny, It will happen in any list or mail server or mail reader where the line length allowed is less than the line length you use when composing your post. Then links will be broken at specific places. Like a slash, after a question mark, ant an =, or a few other places. The one thing I have noticed lately is the insertion of a space in even relatively short links given. I have no idea what is causing that. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Yeah, I know about TinyURL but it's still a shame that Yahoo Groups won't just let a long link through. It's one of the only forums that I deal with that has this issue. What's the logic to breaking links? I could drabble on for countless paragraphs so it's not the total amount of text and most other websites/forums allow multi-line length links. I guess I could understand it when the posts come through to people's email clients like Outlook or OE, etc., if they have their settings a certain way, but the main Yahoo Group webpage shouldn't be breaking the link.. IMO... especially considering the length of the links they embed in emails when it pertains to the Yahoo Group itself (See the bottom of this email for the outrageous lengths of their own links). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Lenny, I have the perfect solution for long links. Go to www.tinyurl.com paste the long url in the box and click the button to make a TinyURL. These tinyurls literally last for years (the oldest I have tested is a 4 year old one and it still worked just fine)! :) -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > I just realized my link broke on my original post so you'll have to go > to http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> > click on the Fish tab, then on the right, the Clearance link, then the > Heater link and then the actual item. It's too bad that Yahoo Groups > insists on breaking long links. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31788	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Well, the gambusia should have been mentioned since this has been happening since the 1950's, certainly more than enough time to be included in even the oldest lists, and the mollies and Oscars I have observed myself in Florida in the 1970' and '80's (and there are other species as well, I just do not recall which). The only species I know of, off hand, the snakeheads in the Potomac River area, might fall under your criteria, since it has only been 2-3 years that this has been public knowledge. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yeah. That's why I started with the "Do a search...". And then I left out the words "some of" when referencing that page "You'll see (some of) them listed on this page". Like most government related websites... and most websites in general, they aren't updated very often and often do not even have a date on the article so a reader will know if it's recent info or old info. I've been trying to include dates when I might update a page on my blog, with new information, but I'm sometimes derelict in that offense myself. The blog articles are dated when I first type them though so at least that gives some kind of a date. Dang.. I hate when I'm not perfect! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31789	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

Its less to do with yahoo not allowing the links and more to do with how the formatting of the emails. If a link is longer than 80 characters or, breaks the 80 character mark then it will likely be broken. something to do with how the process the email and send it back out and put it in the archives. Thanks lenny for the petsmart tip, ill be going there as thats the closest place to me so ill see what they have online first! wish i had a printer lol. On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Yeah, I know about TinyURL but it's still a shame that Yahoo Groups > won't > just let a long link through. It's one of the only forums that I deal with > that has this issue. > > What's the logic to breaking links? I could drabble on for countless > paragraphs so it's not the total amount of text and most other > websites/forums allow multi-line length links. I guess I could understand > it when the posts come through to people's email clients like Outlook or > OE, > etc., if they have their settings a certain way, but the main Yahoo Group > webpage shouldn't be breaking the link.. IMO... especially considering the > length of the links they embed in emails when it pertains to the Yahoo > Group > itself (See the bottom of this email for the outrageous lengths of their > own > > links). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lana Gibbons > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think > > Lenny, > > I have the perfect solution for long links. > > Go to www.tinyurl.com paste the long url in the box and click the button > to > make a TinyURL. These tinyurls literally last for years (the oldest I have > tested is a 4 year old one and it still worked just fine)! > > :) > > -Lana > > "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb > > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > I just realized my link broke on my original post so you'll have to go > > to http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> > > click on the Fish tab, then on the right, the Clearance link, then the > > Heater link and then the actual item. It's too bad that Yahoo Groups > > insists on breaking long links. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/25/2008 1:58:50 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/25/2008 2:03:42 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31790	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

No printer? I hope you have a laptop so you can bring it with you to show them. I'm not sure they'll simply take your word for it. I did do that once when I decided to stop by the PetsMart on my way home so I just brought my laptop into the store, used the wi-fi hot spot, provided by the Office Depot next door, and showed them the page with the price. LOL It worked! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Its less to do with yahoo not allowing the links and more to do with how the formatting of the emails. If a link is longer than 80 characters or, breaks the 80 character mark then it will likely be broken. something to do with how the process the email and send it back out and put it in the archives. Thanks lenny for the petsmart tip, ill be going there as thats the closest place to me so ill see what they have online first! wish i had a printer lol. On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Yeah, I know about TinyURL but it's still a shame that Yahoo Groups > won't just let a long link through. It's one of the only forums that I > deal with that has this issue. > > What's the logic to breaking links? I could drabble on for countless > paragraphs so it's not the total amount of text and most other > websites/forums allow multi-line length links. I guess I could > understand it when the posts come through to people's email clients > like Outlook or OE, etc., if they have their settings a certain way, > but the main Yahoo Group webpage shouldn't be breaking the link.. > IMO... especially considering the length of the links they embed in > emails when it pertains to the Yahoo Group itself (See the bottom of > this email for the outrageous lengths of their own > > links). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think > > Lenny, > > I have the perfect solution for long links. > > Go to www.tinyurl.com paste the long url in the box and click the > button to make a TinyURL. These tinyurls literally last for years (the > oldest I have tested is a 4 year old one and it still worked just > fine)! > > :) > > -Lana > > "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb > > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com > <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > I just realized my link broke on my original post so you'll have to > > go to http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, > > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, > > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> > click on the Fish tab, then on > > the right, the Clearance link, then the Heater link and then the actual item. It's too bad that Yahoo Groups insists on breaking long links. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 2:43:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31791	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

I have an iphone so thats able to get me on the site, but the particular heater i liked said web only so i dont think they will have it in store. On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > No printer? I hope you have a laptop so you can bring it with you to > show > them. I'm not sure they'll simply take your word for it. I did do that > once when I decided to stop by the PetsMart on my way home so I just > brought > my laptop into the store, used the wi-fi hot spot, provided by the Office > Depot next door, and showed them the page with the price. LOL It worked! > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think > > Its less to do with yahoo not allowing the links and more to do with how > the > formatting of the emails. If a link is longer than 80 characters or, breaks > the 80 character mark then it will likely be broken. something to do with > how the process the email and send it back out and put it in the archives. > > Thanks lenny for the petsmart tip, ill be going there as thats the closest > place to me so ill see what they have online first! wish i had a printer > lol. > > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > Yeah, I know about TinyURL but it's still a shame that Yahoo Groups > > won't just let a long link through. It's one of the only forums that I > > deal with that has this issue. > > > > What's the logic to breaking links? I could drabble on for countless > > paragraphs so it's not the total amount of text and most other > > websites/forums allow multi-line length links. I guess I could > > understand it when the posts come through to people's email clients > > like Outlook or OE, etc., if they have their settings a certain way, > > but the main Yahoo Group webpage shouldn't be breaking the link.. > > IMO... especially considering the length of the links they embed in > > emails when it pertains to the Yahoo Group itself (See the bottom of > > this email for the outrageous lengths of their own > > > > links). > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think > > > > Lenny, > > > > I have the perfect solution for long links. > > > > Go to www.tinyurl.com paste the long url in the box and click the > > button to make a TinyURL. These tinyurls literally last for years (the > > oldest I have tested is a 4 year old one and it still worked just > > fine)! > > > > :) > > > > -Lana > > > > "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb > > > > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto: > GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny%2540gmail.com> > > <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > I just realized my link broke on my original post so you'll have to > > > go to http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, > > > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, > > > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> > click on the Fish tab, then on > > > the right, the Clearance link, then the Heater link and then the actual > item. It's too bad that Yahoo Groups insists on breaking long links. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/25/2008 2:43:39 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31792	From: bill1433	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Broken Links in Messages WAS [RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater

Folks,   These may very well being a thing called "Tracking Cookies" which embed into links from time to time.  A quick cure?  Sure, run AVG virus protection and Ccleaner and Cleaner.com to get rid of the little buggers.  Its free and with no hinden spy ware attachments.  A side benefit is that it auto cleans are your old history and Internet Temp dictories.   Bill --- On Sat, 10/25/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: Broken Links in Messages WAS [RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think] To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 3:24 PM Lenny, It will happen in any list or mail server or mail reader where the line length allowed is less than the line length you use when composing your post. Then links will be broken at specific places. Like a slash, after a question mark, ant an =, or a few other places. The one thing I have noticed lately is the insertion of a space in even relatively short links given. I have no idea what is causing that. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:04 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Yeah, I know about TinyURL but it's still a shame that Yahoo Groups won't just let a long link through. It's one of the only forums that I deal with that has this issue. What's the logic to breaking links? I could drabble on for countless paragraphs so it's not the total amount of text and most other websites/forums allow multi-line length links. I guess I could understand it when the posts come through to people's email clients like Outlook or OE, etc., if they have their settings a certain way, but the main Yahoo Group webpage shouldn't be breaking the link.. IMO... especially considering the length of the links they embed in emails when it pertains to the Yahoo Group itself (See the bottom of this email for the outrageous lengths of their own links). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Lenny, I have the perfect solution for long links. Go to www.tinyurl. com paste the long url in the box and click the button to make a TinyURL. These tinyurls literally last for years (the oldest I have tested is a 4 year old one and it still worked just fine)! :) -Lana "There is nothing more useful than sun and salt." - Latin proverb On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > I just realized my link broke on my original post so you'll have to go > to http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com,> > click on the Fish tab, then on the right, the Clearance link, then the > Heater link and then the actual item. It's too bad that Yahoo Groups > insists on breaking long links. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31793	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Pics of my 72g

Check out the following link to see pictures of the 72g tank :) http://karas-fish.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31794	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Pics of my 72g

Nice tank. Make sure you put enough rooted plants in the tank... especially in the deeper sand bed areas... to lessen the chances of anaerobic bacteria and compacted sand issues. A few MTS snails will also help to keep the sand aerated. They aren't as prolific breeders as nuisance type snails but if you start seeing too many, it's an alert that you might be overfeeding your fish. Is that the Juwel tank that had the internal filter in it... or am I thinking of a different thread out here? It's good to also see that you put real lighting on the tank instead of that clip on light with a 60W incandescent bulb. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:53 PM To: george@...; ann@...; KjMarie8@...; tad158@...; jimmyd508@...; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pics of my 72g Check out the following link to see pictures of the 72g tank :) http://karas-fish.blogspot.com/ <http://karas-fish.blogspot.com/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 7:13:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31795	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Pics of my 72g

Thanks! I am planning on it being a heavily planted tank, so hopefully I'll be able to have lots of roots as you suggest. Good advice! I have three MTS which will be moving in shortly. :) The desk lamp was just so I could see what I was doing, lol....it's not a particularly bright room at night. Oh, and no, not the same tank :) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 8:13 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pics of my 72g Nice tank. Make sure you put enough rooted plants in the tank... especially in the deeper sand bed areas... to lessen the chances of anaerobic bacteria and compacted sand issues. A few MTS snails will also help to keep the sand aerated. They aren't as prolific breeders as nuisance type snails but if you start seeing too many, it's an alert that you might be overfeeding your fish. Is that the Juwel tank that had the internal filter in it... or am I thinking of a different thread out here? It's good to also see that you put real lighting on the tank instead of that clip on light with a 60W incandescent bulb. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:53 PM To: george@...; ann@...; KjMarie8@...; tad158@...; jimmyd508@...; AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pics of my 72g Check out the following link to see pictures of the 72g tank :) http://karas-fish.blogspot.com/ <http://karas-fish.blogspot.com/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 7:13:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31796	From: geckospot2000	Date: 10/25/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow

My boesmani was very social and swam regularly with my tin foil barbs. And while they became aggressive to other fish in the tank, he didn't. Lorie Wilmington DE > Here's another one for ya! Does anyone have experience with Bosemani Rainbow Fish? > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31797	From: greychildren	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your > area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. > > You'll see them listed on this page... > http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. > http://nis.gsmfc.org/ > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" > http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm is and how some are much worse than others > but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our > waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with > Mother Nature!" > > Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the > southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, > according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely > released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but > I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have > been found in other local waters in southern States. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first > I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish > you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, > and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's > frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? > That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition > to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive > species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods > affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, > it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would > compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:23:54 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31798	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly other pets like turtles, etc. For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the USA. Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling and death by a predator-type pet. And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges anyhow. I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding heart... but I do still have one! Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing this subject matter. So... what do others think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> - _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:07:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31799	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: What sort of algae is this?

I THINK this is what was selectively growing on the glass walls of my aquarium in expanding brown circular spots, beginning at gravel level. It was hard to scrub off and required teh heavy duty algae scrubber. http://good-times.webshots.com/album/568287451INEQiJ Are they diatoms? Specifically what are they? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31800	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

If the problem is a heater overheated the tank, if you simply turn off the heater the heat should dissipate. If teh fish haven't got heat stroke tehn no need to take more urgent action. Too few heaters or a broken heater could have caused this so you'll probably have to replace teh heater. Visitherm is a good brand. And if you have less than 100 watts per 10 gallons you may need to add more. Usually several heaters in teh tank is a good way to help avoid this sort fo thing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:54 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think I know large temp fluctuation is bad. Some how my heater got set to a very high temperature the other night i guess, i dont know when or exactly how. But the main thing is right now my tanks temp is 90 Degrees. My fish are all very active, which i thought was rather odd as they generally are a lot slower and more relaxed. So what should i do to bring my tank into a normal temp range? Should i just set the heater to an appropriate temp and let the heat dissipate? or should i lower the temp over days with the setting? If i should incrementally adjust how many days should i do it over and about how many degerees? I tihnk i need a new heater this ones settings change when you bump it funny and you have no idea what its temerature settings are really set at. its just one of those relative things. --Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31801	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

So which is better - gambusia, or danios? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora, They claim they are a nuisance when released in the wild because they compete for food with the native species, therefore causing a lack of food for the native species and native species possibly not surviving because of lack of food. It offsets nature, therefore, nuisance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:46:26 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31802	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

In my case it means take out the plastic plants and loook behind teh air stone. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora! Ok, so dismantling would mean....? Take apart filters? Sift through gravel? Anything else? How do I know when the tank is fowling? The smell? How long does that take? The others won't eat the dead fish? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:43:59 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish A glofish is a kind of danio. Danios are experts at getting hung up ni some small tight place and dying. To find him you'll more than likely have to dismantle teh tank, and I suggest doing that before his body decomposes into little pieces that get everywhere, the tank fouls, and you can't get all the little pieces. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Hey Everyone, Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched everywhere, in filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons yet, I'm worried! Any ideas? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31803	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

Some fish simply will not eat anything but live foods of one sort or another. They need to movement, or the stalking (chase), or something that can only be difficult, if even possible, to replicate with a processed food. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly other pets like turtles, etc. For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the USA. Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling and death by a predator-type pet. And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges anyhow. I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding heart... but I do still have one! Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing this subject matter. So... what do others think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> - _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:07:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31804	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Danios aren't on that list. Are they listed under a different name than danio? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:23:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31805	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Heh, heh, heh, I've found that by the time my ammonia levels climb significantly from a dead fish I've already got a situation way out of control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Personally, I wouldn't worry about dismantling the tank unless or until you see ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels climbing uncontrollably. Just test your water on a regular basis for the next week or so and if you don't see water quality problems, then it's likely not to become a problem. If the other fish already ate it, then they will have processed the "food" and it would just become more fish poop in the tank which can be handled by an extra PWC, as needed... as if you overfed the fish. Vacuuming the gravel with each PWC will remove the majority of any detritus in your tank. Doing proper filter maintenance will remove any that got sucked up by the filter. It wouldn't hurt to reveres-flush out the intake tube of your filter on your next scheduled filter maintenance if you don't have an intake tube screen on the intake tube. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 9:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora! Ok, so dismantling would mean....? Take apart filters? Sift through gravel? Anything else? How do I know when the tank is fowling? The smell? How long does that take? The others won't eat the dead fish? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:43:59 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish A glofish is a kind of danio. Danios are experts at getting hung up ni some small tight place and dying. To find him you'll more than likely have to dismantle teh tank, and I suggest doing that before his body decomposes into little pieces that get everywhere, the tank fouls, and you can't get all the little pieces. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Hey Everyone, Need help guys, I have a Glo Fish that's MIA, I've searched everywhere, in filters, ornaments, plants, no luck! He was there yesterday, not today, didn't come out to feed either. I haven't found any skeletons yet, I'm worried! Any ideas? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:00:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:39:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31806	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31807	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Not finding it offhand. Atleast not in English. I googled danio invasive species. Really, Lenny, if you have knowledge that danios are an invasive species, just direct us to where the information can be found. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yeah. That's why I started with the "Do a search...". And then I left out the words "some of" when referencing that page "You'll see (some of) them listed on this page". Like most government related websites... and most websites in general, they aren't updated very often and often do not even have a date on the article so a reader will know if it's recent info or old info. I've been trying to include dates when I might update a page on my blog, with new information, but I'm sometimes derelict in that offense myself. The blog articles are dated when I first type them though so at least that gives some kind of a date. Dang.. I hate when I'm not perfect! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 1:36:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31808	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Glo-cats? Don't think I've met them yet. Of course I'm behind on the invasive danios. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "hank voss" <aatetras@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:09 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: They have also done it to cats now.Next its us!!!!! Hank ========================================= > > Yes, some of the early experiments were done on Ricefish (Medakas) but the > GloFish being sold by many pet stores in the U.S. are genetically enhanced > Zebra Danios but the first GloFish (the trademarked name for the glowing > Zebra Danios) were enhanced with various Marine genetics, while still > embryos, to give them their various colors. > > It's not the same as "painted" fish since painted fish are manually tattooed > or injected into each fish, after birth, where the GloFish actually are born > with their neon-type coloration, passed on by their parents. > > Most fish hobbyists feel that painted and tattooed fish are inhumane > procedures, as do I, but I don't think glofish are inhumane, just not > necessary. I'm all for genetic testing, etc., but not when it's done for > purely commercially applicable cosmetic reasons. It's different if it's > being done to save lives, help people, help animals, etc... but just to make > a glowing fish that can be sold for ten times more money? I'm all for > capitalism but I'd rather have natural looking fish. > > Even though I have some fancy goldfish, I also feel the same way about them. > When I bought mine, I didn't realize what the Dr. Frankenstein's out there > had done to create the fancy goldfish varieties like I now know. > Unfortunately, it's hard to turn back the hands of time so all I can do now > is give them the best home I can and provide proper information on their > care to others. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Gwydryn@... > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > In a message dated 10/24/2008 4:33:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> writes: > > David, > GloFish- They are supposedly from what I read injected with DNA from > jellyfish and coral. Correct me if I am wrong. That is why I found it weird > when the color ran. > > HMM, SOME YEARS BACK i THOUGHT i READ GLOFISH WERE MEDAKAS WITH JELLY FISH > DNA, THE GLOFISH THEY SELL ARE ZEBRA AND TO ME THEY LOK AS PAINTED AS THE > PAINTED GLASS FISH. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. > > ENID > > "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in > a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, > thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW- -What a > Ride!!!" > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:56:24 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31809	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

I coudl go for a glo-face. Without bumps or wrinkles. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:52 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish Well.. if I could go back and have a little genetic enhancement done, I might just be up for it! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: They have also done it to cats now.Next its us!!!!! Hank ========================================= > > Yes, some of the early experiments were done on Ricefish (Medakas) but the > GloFish being sold by many pet stores in the U.S. are genetically enhanced > Zebra Danios but the first GloFish (the trademarked name for the glowing > Zebra Danios) were enhanced with various Marine genetics, while still > embryos, to give them their various colors. > > It's not the same as "painted" fish since painted fish are manually tattooed > or injected into each fish, after birth, where the GloFish actually are born > with their neon-type coloration, passed on by their parents. > > Most fish hobbyists feel that painted and tattooed fish are inhumane > procedures, as do I, but I don't think glofish are inhumane, just not > necessary. I'm all for genetic testing, etc., but not when it's done for > purely commercially applicable cosmetic reasons. It's different if it's > being done to save lives, help people, help animals, etc... but just to make > a glowing fish that can be sold for ten times more money? I'm all for > capitalism but I'd rather have natural looking fish. > > Even though I have some fancy goldfish, I also feel the same way about them. > When I bought mine, I didn't realize what the Dr. Frankenstein's out there > had done to create the fancy goldfish varieties like I now know. > Unfortunately, it's hard to turn back the hands of time so all I can do now > is give them the best home I can and provide proper information on their > care to others. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Gwydryn@... > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > In a message dated 10/24/2008 4:33:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> writes: > > David, > GloFish- They are supposedly from what I read injected with DNA from > jellyfish and coral. Correct me if I am wrong. That is why I found it weird > when the color ran. > > HMM, SOME YEARS BACK i THOUGHT i READ GLOFISH WERE MEDAKAS WITH JELLY FISH > DNA, THE GLOFISH THEY SELL ARE ZEBRA AND TO ME THEY LOK AS PAINTED AS THE > PAINTED GLASS FISH. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. > > ENID > > "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in > a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, > thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW- -What a > Ride!!!" > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 > 10:56:24 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:42:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:52:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31810	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31811	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

I too worry about people who experience pleasure in watching a predator capture and devour live prey. But Lenny, aren't you a hunter? I guess I tend to group human hunters into that category. If the thrill of hunting was just being in the woods and tracking the animals, wouldn't the hunter use a camera? OK.that'll start some controversy, LOL! Regarding feeding live animals to pets, my two cents is this: some can wean their pets to non-live foods. I believe there are frozen mice available for snakes. Some do, some don't either because of the pleasure aspect or they think the live foods are better for their pet. I prefer to avoid pets that truly require live foods, both due to displeasure (squeamishness, gross-ness, whatever) and inconvenience. On the other hand, there was a boy scout merit badge my son worked on where we bought live crickets for a skink we captured in the yard and kept for a month. It was gross buying a writhing mass of crickets, but cool to watch the skink snap them up. I do have pets that eat their relatives, however. African cichlids produce copius amounts of fry and if you let the mothers spit the fry in the community tank, they are usually eaten by the adults. This does not give me pleasure, but instead it's sort of a "Awwww" reaction. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly other pets like turtles, etc. For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the USA. Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling and death by a predator-type pet. And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges anyhow. I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding heart... but I do still have one! Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing this subject matter. So... what do others think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> - _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:07:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31812	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

Dora, I just wanted to clear up your comment about "100 watts per 10 gallons". For typical temperature controlled homes, where the temperature is kept between 72-78F, no more than 5W per gallon is needed, so a 50W heater is sufficient. Now, if someone allows their home temperature to dip down into the 60's or lower, then more than 5W per gallon would be needed, especially on a smaller sized tank. I certainly agree with having redundancy in tanks... whether it be heaters or filter systems but this is sometimes harder to do on smaller tanks like a 10G, without the hardware affecting the aesthetics of the tank too much. Having two 25W heaters, instead of one 50W heater in a 10G tank would be better in the event of heater failure... whether in the stuck on or stuck off positions... if the 25W heaters are short enough where they could both be laid down across the back of the tank so they aren't such distractions. I did a 10G tank with "Heater Failure Experiment" (title of the article) a couple of years ago and documented the drastic temperature swings that can happen in a 10G tank with a single heater that fails. My article is on my blog. This is another reason why it's actually easier to take care of larger tanks as the water parameters are more stabile. A 55G tank would take much, much longer to change temperature, compared to a 10G tank, so a heater failure or a temperature change in your home would not affect a 55G tank nearly as fast as in a 10G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think If the problem is a heater overheated the tank, if you simply turn off the heater the heat should dissipate. If teh fish haven't got heat stroke tehn no need to take more urgent action. Too few heaters or a broken heater could have caused this so you'll probably have to replace teh heater. Visitherm is a good brand. And if you have less than 100 watts per 10 gallons you may need to add more. Usually several heaters in teh tank is a good way to help avoid this sort fo thing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:54 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think I know large temp fluctuation is bad. Some how my heater got set to a very high temperature the other night i guess, i dont know when or exactly how. But the main thing is right now my tanks temp is 90 Degrees. My fish are all very active, which i thought was rather odd as they generally are a lot slower and more relaxed. So what should i do to bring my tank into a normal temp range? Should i just set the heater to an appropriate temp and let the heat dissipate? or should i lower the temp over days with the setting? If i should incrementally adjust how many days should i do it over and about how many degerees? I tihnk i need a new heater this ones settings change when you bump it funny and you have no idea what its temerature settings are really set at. its just one of those relative things. --Dave _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:50:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31813	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

BTW I did NOT view the video.why see something distressful? I have seen Animal Planet.don't need to see more. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly other pets like turtles, etc. For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the USA. Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling and death by a predator-type pet. And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges anyhow. I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding heart... but I do still have one! Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing this subject matter. So... what do others think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> - _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:07:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31814	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

There are many kinds of danios. You'll see Zebra Danio's listed which is what I said. Since each section is alphabetized, Zebra Danio's are listed as the last fish in the "Fishes" section. As has already been clarified by others, that list is likely outdated and incomplete so things are likely much worse today. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't on that list. Are they listed under a different name than danio? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:23:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:37:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:54:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

God, Dora... how many times do you have to ask the same question? This is the third reply to the same thread in a minute. Give people a chance to reply instead of asking over and over. Read the list of fish on the link I provided... I specifically referenced "Zebra Danio". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Not finding it offhand. Atleast not in English. I googled danio invasive species. Really, Lenny, if you have knowledge that danios are an invasive species, just direct us to where the information can be found. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yeah. That's why I started with the "Do a search...". And then I left out the words "some of" when referencing that page "You'll see (some of) them listed on this page". Like most government related websites... and most websites in general, they aren't updated very often and often do not even have a date on the article so a reader will know if it's recent info or old info. I've been trying to include dates when I might update a page on my blog, with new information, but I'm sometimes derelict in that offense myself. The blog articles are dated when I first type them though so at least that gives some kind of a date. Dang.. I hate when I'm not perfect! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 1:36:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:47:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31816	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

\\Steve//, That list was only for Gulf States but it is still in dire need of being updated. Maybe Obama will "earmark" some more money for the project. LOL The site/project admits it was created by funds from government grants. I guess they needed Benz's for all the executives to go to board meetings, so they ran out of money to actually do what they were supposed to do... typical big government waste. LOL Here is the disclaimer on the bottom of the page: Current site content modified from original content developed by the University of Southern Mississippi/College of Marine Sciences/Gulf Coast Research Laboratory through a grant administered by the Gulf of Mexico Program. (The Gulf Of Mexico Program is a project of the EPA - http://www.epa.gov/gmpo/... does anyone else hear the great toilet in Washington being flushed with our tax dollars?) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:03:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31817	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Another algae question

Here's another what are the algae question. Now, my housemate and the neighbor the plumber think it's mold. I never saw mold with chlorophyll. These are bright to dark green algae growing on the outer wall of my house where water drips down it from my window air conditioner. http://good-times.webshots.com/album/568289125MlMQUO If noone knows, where a good place to get algae identified? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31818	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31819	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

Why would you imply that I'm a hunter? Dora, you really know nothing about me, except maybe for what I intentionally put out on the internet about me, but if you ever decided to research anything first, you could simply Google my name and find out so much about me (over 2,000 hits the last time I checked). However, you won't find anything about me being a hunter... except for when I hunted down people for a living. Further, if you knew anything about the typical "human hunters", you'll know that the overwhelming majority of them (in the USA) eat what they kill and do not just kill for the thrill... although criminals certainly may be the exception. Yes, there are exceptions where someone will kill something merely for the trophy kill but that is not the typical hunter. Besides, trophy hunting is mostly illegal in the USA although there are exceptions mostly in the sport fishing industry. The other thing is, once again (if you would read first), there's an ENORMOUS difference between a human going out into the wild, to track and hunt down a wild animal (whether it be a hunter or fisherman) for food, versus putting a defenseless pet-type animal into a closed container where it has no chance of escape. There are also laws against "baiting" in most areas, although it is done in many areas, where the hunter, trying to get an edge on the wild animal, will bait a certain area to draw in the subject of the hunt. I also noted the exception for "natural" killings that took place unintentionally with adult fish eating their fry or the eggs or fry from other fish is a natural thing and usually not done intentionally by the fish keeper. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) I too worry about people who experience pleasure in watching a predator capture and devour live prey. But Lenny, aren't you a hunter? I guess I tend to group human hunters into that category. If the thrill of hunting was just being in the woods and tracking the animals, wouldn't the hunter use a camera? OK.that'll start some controversy, LOL! Regarding feeding live animals to pets, my two cents is this: some can wean their pets to non-live foods. I believe there are frozen mice available for snakes. Some do, some don't either because of the pleasure aspect or they think the live foods are better for their pet. I prefer to avoid pets that truly require live foods, both due to displeasure (squeamishness, gross-ness, whatever) and inconvenience. On the other hand, there was a boy scout merit badge my son worked on where we bought live crickets for a skink we captured in the yard and kept for a month. It was gross buying a writhing mass of crickets, but cool to watch the skink snap them up. I do have pets that eat their relatives, however. African cichlids produce copius amounts of fry and if you let the mothers spit the fry in the community tank, they are usually eaten by the adults. This does not give me pleasure, but instead it's sort of a "Awwww" reaction. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly other pets like turtles, etc. For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the USA. Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling and death by a predator-type pet. And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges anyhow. I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding heart... but I do still have one! Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing this subject matter. So... what do others think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> > > com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> > > com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> - _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:07:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:57:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:22:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31821	From: gardn4brds	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: starting tank over

Okay so there is still no fish in this tank which has been for a month. When the fish were in it I did the weekly changes and added the stuff to make the water safe for the fish plus I waitted 24 hours before adding the water to get it warm ect before doing water changes. SO I tested my tap water and the ph is is either 6.8 ot 7 nitrate and nitrite were both 0. So why does the ph drop in a fishless tank?? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The pH in a tank that has an ecology of any type will see the pH drop. The > way to keep the pH stable in a tank is doing weekly PWC's (10% to 25% or > more depending on the bioload... and maybe more frequently than weekly if > the bioload is heavy or the tank is undersized). Advanced life forms (and > possibly all life forms) on earth are carbon based so they will use up trace > elements and minerals that show up as a number in the KH and GH test > results. As these life forms (bacteria, plants, fish, etc.) use up these > trace elements, the pH will drop... especially when the KH levels are > diminished. > > What is your tap/source water baseline? See my blog for my short article on > "Finding Your Tap/Source Water Baseline". Let us know your baseline numbers > compared to your tank numbers. > > If your baseline pH is 6.0, then you'll be best to go with fish that prefer > a low pH (there are many)... but if your tank's pH is low due to improper > maintenance, that would cause the pH to crash to a low level. > > Start doing daily 25% PWC's (using dechlor of course) and after a week, test > the tank again and see what the pH and other numbers are up to. > > You should be doing a fishless cycle on the tank to build up the needed > nitrifying bacteria before adding fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gardn4brds > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] starting tank over > > Okay so you all said the mold was really nothing just plant decaying. > So nothing in the tank for amonth now and I have to just go and take some > dead leaves off a couple of plants today nothing major. > > Tested the water and nitrate was at 0. nitrite was at 0. but the ph was > barely 6.0 > > SO how do I raise the ph I want to have guppies in this tnak so what do I do > to get it ready for them? > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/25/2008 12:49:07 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31822	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: starting tank over

If you were to look at your water under a microscope, you would likely see many, many life forms living in your tank. These microscopic life forms will slowly use up the trace elements (the things that make up the GH and KH test results) in the water and as the KH level drops, the pH will drop. pH will ALWAYS drop in a "living" tank unless the water chemistry is kept up by doing PWC's or in the cases where people intentionally put certain rocks or substances in their tanks to leech carbonate hardness (KH) into the water to keep the pH levels higher when their fish need it. Weekly PWC's are still needed, even in the case where people add hardeners to their water, since only a PWC will remove/dilute the fish waste that is diluted in their tank. Of course, your tap water could also be in the low 6 range as well. You can't just test the water right out the tap. You have to also re-test that same water at 24 hours and 48 hours to see if the pH goes up or down. Agitation/aeration will quicken the process. In most cases, the pH will change slightly from what it is right out the tap. In other cases, the pH will change dramatically from what it is right out the tap. Read my article, "Find Your Tap/Source Water Baseline", for more details. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardn4brds Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: starting tank over Okay so there is still no fish in this tank which has been for a month. When the fish were in it I did the weekly changes and added the stuff to make the water safe for the fish plus I waitted 24 hours before adding the water to get it warm ect before doing water changes. SO I tested my tap water and the ph is is either 6.8 ot 7 nitrate and nitrite were both 0. So why does the ph drop in a fishless tank?? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The pH in a tank that has an ecology of any type will see the pH drop. The > way to keep the pH stable in a tank is doing weekly PWC's (10% to 25% or > more depending on the bioload... and maybe more frequently than weekly if > the bioload is heavy or the tank is undersized). Advanced life forms (and > possibly all life forms) on earth are carbon based so they will use up trace > elements and minerals that show up as a number in the KH and GH test > results. As these life forms (bacteria, plants, fish, etc.) use up these > trace elements, the pH will drop... especially when the KH levels are > diminished. > > What is your tap/source water baseline? See my blog for my short article on > "Finding Your Tap/Source Water Baseline". Let us know your baseline numbers > compared to your tank numbers. > > If your baseline pH is 6.0, then you'll be best to go with fish that prefer > a low pH (there are many)... but if your tank's pH is low due to improper > maintenance, that would cause the pH to crash to a low level. > > Start doing daily 25% PWC's (using dechlor of course) and after a week, test > the tank again and see what the pH and other numbers are up to. > > You should be doing a fishless cycle on the tank to build up the needed > nitrifying bacteria before adding fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of gardn4brds > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] starting tank over > > Okay so you all said the mold was really nothing just plant decaying. > So nothing in the tank for amonth now and I have to just go and take some > dead leaves off a couple of plants today nothing major. > > Tested the water and nitrate was at 0. nitrite was at 0. but the ph was > barely 6.0 > > SO how do I raise the ph I want to have guppies in this tnak so what do I do > to get it ready for them? > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 > 12:49:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:26:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:39:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31823	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

Wait, that was Donna (DJRansome) not Dora. I apologize, I thought you had mentioned it in a post long ago. I have many hunters to whom I am related, and we have this friendly debate repeatedly. I don’t see how eating what they kill makes it any different, unless they do so out of economic necessity and find the process distasteful but necessary. You are absolutely right of course, that hunting in the woods is very different from putting prey in a closed container. So enough said since this is a fish forum sorry for raising the issue. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) Why would you imply that I'm a hunter? Dora, you really know nothing about me, except maybe for what I intentionally put out on the internet about me, but if you ever decided to research anything first, you could simply Google my name and find out so much about me (over 2,000 hits the last time I checked). However, you won't find anything about me being a hunter... except for when I hunted down people for a living. Further, if you knew anything about the typical "human hunters", you'll know that the overwhelming majority of them (in the USA) eat what they kill and do not just kill for the thrill... although criminals certainly may be the exception. Yes, there are exceptions where someone will kill something merely for the trophy kill but that is not the typical hunter. Besides, trophy hunting is mostly illegal in the USA although there are exceptions mostly in the sport fishing industry. The other thing is, once again (if you would read first), there's an ENORMOUS difference between a human going out into the wild, to track and hunt down a wild animal (whether it be a hunter or fisherman) for food, versus putting a defenseless pet-type animal into a closed container where it has no chance of escape. There are also laws against "baiting" in most areas, although it is done in many areas, where the hunter, trying to get an edge on the wild animal, will bait a certain area to draw in the subject of the hunt. I also noted the exception for "natural" killings that took place unintentionally with adult fish eating their fry or the eggs or fry from other fish is a natural thing and usually not done intentionally by the fish keeper. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) I too worry about people who experience pleasure in watching a predator capture and devour live prey. But Lenny, aren't you a hunter? I guess I tend to group human hunters into that category. If the thrill of hunting was just being in the woods and tracking the animals, wouldn't the hunter use a camera? OK.that'll start some controversy, LOL! Regarding feeding live animals to pets, my two cents is this: some can wean their pets to non-live foods. I believe there are frozen mice available for snakes. Some do, some don't either because of the pleasure aspect or they think the live foods are better for their pet. I prefer to avoid pets that truly require live foods, both due to displeasure (squeamishness, gross-ness, whatever) and inconvenience. On the other hand, there was a boy scout merit badge my son worked on where we bought live crickets for a skink we captured in the yard and kept for a month. It was gross buying a writhing mass of crickets, but cool to watch the skink snap them up. I do have pets that eat their relatives, however. African cichlids produce copius amounts of fry and if you let the mothers spit the fry in the community tank, they are usually eaten by the adults. This does not give me pleasure, but instead it's sort of a "Awwww" reaction. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly other pets like turtles, etc. For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the USA. Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling and death by a predator-type pet. And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges anyhow. I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding heart... but I do still have one! Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing this subject matter. So... what do others think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> > > com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> > > com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> - _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:07:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:57:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:22:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31824	From: Wendie	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: 3 day old bristlenose plecos

I found some eggs scattered around one tank just a couple days ago so I picked up a couple and put them in a fry saver. They are just starting to become fish now. Wendie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31825	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31826	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

Oops... I'm so used to getting those kinds of "pointed" questions from Dora. Sorry (to both parties) to mistake you for Dora... or Dora for you! LOL So, presuming you are anti-hunting (based on your line of questioning)... are you also a vegetarian? Is it more fair to the animals being eaten to be hunted on an individual basis or raised on a farm to go to slaughter? Should anyone who is anti-hunting also be anti-meat in general since most meat food items must be killed first? ... except for them college kids and other whackos that do the goldfish swallowing thing... LOL And for vegetarians... shouldn't plants, fruit and vegetables also have rights? Should they just be chopped down, viciously yanked from their branch or pulled from the ground and then be slaughtered and eaten? They don't even have a chance to get away from you vicious vegetarians like an animal does from a hunter. LOL (I'm only saying this to illustrate that any this-right or that-right type group could make an argument for their cause du jour.) Dang it Greychildren... look what you started! Just kidding. ;-) I like informative and intelligent discussion even when it might veer off-topic a little... or a lot. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) Wait, that was Donna (DJRansome) not Dora. I apologize, I thought you had mentioned it in a post long ago. I have many hunters to whom I am related, and we have this friendly debate repeatedly. I don't see how eating what they kill makes it any different, unless they do so out of economic necessity and find the process distasteful but necessary. You are absolutely right of course, that hunting in the woods is very different from putting prey in a closed container. So enough said since this is a fish forum.sorry for raising the issue. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) Why would you imply that I'm a hunter? Dora, you really know nothing about me, except maybe for what I intentionally put out on the internet about me, but if you ever decided to research anything first, you could simply Google my name and find out so much about me (over 2,000 hits the last time I checked). However, you won't find anything about me being a hunter... except for when I hunted down people for a living. Further, if you knew anything about the typical "human hunters", you'll know that the overwhelming majority of them (in the USA) eat what they kill and do not just kill for the thrill... although criminals certainly may be the exception. Yes, there are exceptions where someone will kill something merely for the trophy kill but that is not the typical hunter. Besides, trophy hunting is mostly illegal in the USA although there are exceptions mostly in the sport fishing industry. The other thing is, once again (if you would read first), there's an ENORMOUS difference between a human going out into the wild, to track and hunt down a wild animal (whether it be a hunter or fisherman) for food, versus putting a defenseless pet-type animal into a closed container where it has no chance of escape. There are also laws against "baiting" in most areas, although it is done in many areas, where the hunter, trying to get an edge on the wild animal, will bait a certain area to draw in the subject of the hunt. I also noted the exception for "natural" killings that took place unintentionally with adult fish eating their fry or the eggs or fry from other fish is a natural thing and usually not done intentionally by the fish keeper. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) I too worry about people who experience pleasure in watching a predator capture and devour live prey. But Lenny, aren't you a hunter? I guess I tend to group human hunters into that category. If the thrill of hunting was just being in the woods and tracking the animals, wouldn't the hunter use a camera? OK.that'll start some controversy, LOL! Regarding feeding live animals to pets, my two cents is this: some can wean their pets to non-live foods. I believe there are frozen mice available for snakes. Some do, some don't either because of the pleasure aspect or they think the live foods are better for their pet. I prefer to avoid pets that truly require live foods, both due to displeasure (squeamishness, gross-ness, whatever) and inconvenience. On the other hand, there was a boy scout merit badge my son worked on where we bought live crickets for a skink we captured in the yard and kept for a month. It was gross buying a writhing mass of crickets, but cool to watch the skink snap them up. I do have pets that eat their relatives, however. African cichlids produce copius amounts of fry and if you let the mothers spit the fry in the community tank, they are usually eaten by the adults. This does not give me pleasure, but instead it's sort of a "Awwww" reaction. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly other pets like turtles, etc. For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the USA. Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling and death by a predator-type pet. And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges anyhow. I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding heart... but I do still have one! Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing this subject matter. So... what do others think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:42:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31827	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: 3 day old bristlenose plecos

Wendie, Are you Susieoh1? I'm guessing yes since the photos from that member were also about 3 day old plecos. If yes, your pictures of your eggs and your photo album "A Baby's Beginning" are located here... http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/7f6f?m=l Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 3 day old bristlenose plecos I found some eggs scattered around one tank just a couple days ago so I picked up a couple and put them in a fry saver. They are just starting to become fish now. Wendie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:47:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31829	From: Wendie	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: 3 day old bristlenose plecos

Thanks, that's me. Thought I'd share. These will be F2's. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 3 day old bristlenose plecos Wendie, Are you Susieoh1? I'm guessing yes since the photos from that member were also about 3 day old plecos. If yes, your pictures of your eggs and your photo album "A Baby's Beginning" are located here... http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/browse/7f6f?m=l Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 3 day old bristlenose plecos I found some eggs scattered around one tank just a couple days ago so I picked up a couple and put them in a fry saver. They are just starting to become fish now. Wendie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:47:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31830	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

Donna, I have hunted in my past, and may well do so in the future--I'm just not in a time/place right now where I can put the work in that is required. There is a lot of preparation needed before you do any actual hunting, like know where the animal you seek ranges, what the animal you seek looks like and behaves (may have prevented that guy who shot a Jersey cow during deer season, and then had the actual audacity to bring it to the weigh station, where he was promptly arrested), learning the proper gun and ammunition is for what you intend to hunt (a 12 gauge slug really does not leave much of a squirrel or raccoon, and a .22 caliber long certainly is insufficient for a deer). Once you go out, then you need to actually locate the critter you are after, and hope your ranging and aim are good that day, anticipating the move the animal will make. There is a lot more to hunting than the activists would have people believe. It may be worthwhile to note that the vast majority of the people against hunting are from a city or metropolitan area. Oh, yeah, anything I bagged was used for supper. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) I too worry about people who experience pleasure in watching a predator capture and devour live prey. But Lenny, aren't you a hunter? I guess I tend to group human hunters into that category. If the thrill of hunting was just being in the woods and tracking the animals, wouldn't the hunter use a camera? OK.that'll start some controversy, LOL! Regarding feeding live animals to pets, my two cents is this: some can wean their pets to non-live foods. I believe there are frozen mice available for snakes. Some do, some don't either because of the pleasure aspect or they think the live foods are better for their pet. I prefer to avoid pets that truly require live foods, both due to displeasure (squeamishness, gross-ness, whatever) and inconvenience. On the other hand, there was a boy scout merit badge my son worked on where we bought live crickets for a skink we captured in the yard and kept for a month. It was gross buying a writhing mass of crickets, but cool to watch the skink snap them up. I do have pets that eat their relatives, however. African cichlids produce copius amounts of fry and if you let the mothers spit the fry in the community tank, they are usually eaten by the adults. This does not give me pleasure, but instead it's sort of a "Awwww" reaction. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly other pets like turtles, etc. For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the USA. Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling and death by a predator-type pet. And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges anyhow. I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding heart... but I do still have one! Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing this subject matter. So... what do others think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31831	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

I am not looking to rial anyone up here, but i just wanted to write out my perspective i guess, which is probably very poor. :) 1. A friend of mine has a ciclid tank. He will on occasion live feed them. 2. he has a guppy tank where guppies are raised for this reason. now, lenny makes the point that feeding hamsters to dogs or cats is bad and possibly illegal, and that maybe true, but there is a better analogy here that i think fits alot better, and should hit home to everyone here, save maybe vegetarians. Humans raise cattle in enclosed fields where they have (relatively) no chance of escape. The cattle are grown to the point that they can be used for food, and herded into a slaughtering plant where they have no chance of even surviving, no where to hide, nothing. Walk in a cow roll out a hamburger. This is just one of 100s of examples of how humans manipulate animals for our needs and survival. I suppose we could all become vegetarians, but even that wouldn't be enough, because that carrot your munching on didn't have a chance either when you yanked it out of the ground. I guess that leaves you with vegan, if i recall they are one of the strictest diets around. We could also talk about the fish in your tanks in general. Is it fair to keep them locked up? Again i do not aim this at any person, i clipped the replies from this message just for that reason. this is a standalone thought, and how i look at the issue. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31832	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

It's not so much that I am anti hunting, as I am anti-pleasure in hunting. As a necessity, I get it. As fun.I don't. I'd probably be a vegetarian if I had to kill the food myself, and yes, that makes me a coward letting others do the dirty work and avoiding thoughts of how the food got on my plate. I do have trouble eating shrimp if I have to first pull off it's little legs.but the feeling passes within 24 hours, LOL. One of my favorite foods is fish.and I keep them as pets! I'm really messed up! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 3:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) Oops... I'm so used to getting those kinds of "pointed" questions from Dora. Sorry (to both parties) to mistake you for Dora... or Dora for you! LOL So, presuming you are anti-hunting (based on your line of questioning)... are you also a vegetarian? Is it more fair to the animals being eaten to be hunted on an individual basis or raised on a farm to go to slaughter? Should anyone who is anti-hunting also be anti-meat in general since most meat food items must be killed first? ... except for them college kids and other whackos that do the goldfish swallowing thing... LOL And for vegetarians... shouldn't plants, fruit and vegetables also have rights? Should they just be chopped down, viciously yanked from their branch or pulled from the ground and then be slaughtered and eaten? They don't even have a chance to get away from you vicious vegetarians like an animal does from a hunter. LOL (I'm only saying this to illustrate that any this-right or that-right type group could make an argument for their cause du jour.) Dang it Greychildren... look what you started! Just kidding. ;-) I like informative and intelligent discussion even when it might veer off-topic a little... or a lot. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) Wait, that was Donna (DJRansome) not Dora. I apologize, I thought you had mentioned it in a post long ago. I have many hunters to whom I am related, and we have this friendly debate repeatedly. I don't see how eating what they kill makes it any different, unless they do so out of economic necessity and find the process distasteful but necessary. You are absolutely right of course, that hunting in the woods is very different from putting prey in a closed container. So enough said since this is a fish forum.sorry for raising the issue. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) Why would you imply that I'm a hunter? Dora, you really know nothing about me, except maybe for what I intentionally put out on the internet about me, but if you ever decided to research anything first, you could simply Google my name and find out so much about me (over 2,000 hits the last time I checked). However, you won't find anything about me being a hunter... except for when I hunted down people for a living. Further, if you knew anything about the typical "human hunters", you'll know that the overwhelming majority of them (in the USA) eat what they kill and do not just kill for the thrill... although criminals certainly may be the exception. Yes, there are exceptions where someone will kill something merely for the trophy kill but that is not the typical hunter. Besides, trophy hunting is mostly illegal in the USA although there are exceptions mostly in the sport fishing industry. The other thing is, once again (if you would read first), there's an ENORMOUS difference between a human going out into the wild, to track and hunt down a wild animal (whether it be a hunter or fisherman) for food, versus putting a defenseless pet-type animal into a closed container where it has no chance of escape. There are also laws against "baiting" in most areas, although it is done in many areas, where the hunter, trying to get an edge on the wild animal, will bait a certain area to draw in the subject of the hunt. I also noted the exception for "natural" killings that took place unintentionally with adult fish eating their fry or the eggs or fry from other fish is a natural thing and usually not done intentionally by the fish keeper. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) I too worry about people who experience pleasure in watching a predator capture and devour live prey. But Lenny, aren't you a hunter? I guess I tend to group human hunters into that category. If the thrill of hunting was just being in the woods and tracking the animals, wouldn't the hunter use a camera? OK.that'll start some controversy, LOL! Regarding feeding live animals to pets, my two cents is this: some can wean their pets to non-live foods. I believe there are frozen mice available for snakes. Some do, some don't either because of the pleasure aspect or they think the live foods are better for their pet. I prefer to avoid pets that truly require live foods, both due to displeasure (squeamishness, gross-ness, whatever) and inconvenience. On the other hand, there was a boy scout merit badge my son worked on where we bought live crickets for a skink we captured in the yard and kept for a month. It was gross buying a writhing mass of crickets, but cool to watch the skink snap them up. I do have pets that eat their relatives, however. African cichlids produce copius amounts of fry and if you let the mothers spit the fry in the community tank, they are usually eaten by the adults. This does not give me pleasure, but instead it's sort of a "Awwww" reaction. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly other pets like turtles, etc. For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the USA. Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling and death by a predator-type pet. And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges anyhow. I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding heart... but I do still have one! Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing this subject matter. So... what do others think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:42:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31833	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

But I think Lenny's original point was the pleasure aspect. I don't think those who slaughter feed cattle feel pleasure. How many of us on fish forums have read posts by people who want to know if you put two unsuitable predator fish together, which would win? Or want to describe their experiences or video's having done so? And yes, I worry about whether it's humane to keep fish in a glass box. But I soothe the worry with thoughts that my glass box is more humane than what the fish would likely be in otherwise, since they are tank raised and would not be free. I don't buy wild. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) I am not looking to rial anyone up here, but i just wanted to write out my perspective i guess, which is probably very poor. :) 1. A friend of mine has a ciclid tank. He will on occasion live feed them. 2. he has a guppy tank where guppies are raised for this reason. now, lenny makes the point that feeding hamsters to dogs or cats is bad and possibly illegal, and that maybe true, but there is a better analogy here that i think fits alot better, and should hit home to everyone here, save maybe vegetarians. Humans raise cattle in enclosed fields where they have (relatively) no chance of escape. The cattle are grown to the point that they can be used for food, and herded into a slaughtering plant where they have no chance of even surviving, no where to hide, nothing. Walk in a cow roll out a hamburger. This is just one of 100s of examples of how humans manipulate animals for our needs and survival. I suppose we could all become vegetarians, but even that wouldn't be enough, because that carrot your munching on didn't have a chance either when you yanked it out of the ground. I guess that leaves you with vegan, if i recall they are one of the strictest diets around. We could also talk about the fish in your tanks in general. Is it fair to keep them locked up? Again i do not aim this at any person, i clipped the replies from this message just for that reason. this is a standalone thought, and how i look at the issue. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31834	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)

I need some help. the fancy goldfish, usually very active, started hiding at the bottom of the tank. He has a filmy white substance on his tail. He seems to have dropsy. ( l looked on the links and photos) I have a friend going to the pet store for a ph kit, and some epsom salt, and to ask advice, but would welcome any suggestions. I have taken the fish out of the tank. I don't have a heater for the tank, so although I read somewhere that I should have the water at about 89degrees. I really want to help this guy and don't want to lose him. Thanks for any help Joanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31835	From: harry perry	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy /Joanna

Try this   http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm Harry --- On Sun, 10/26/08, olesonjo <olesonjo@...> wrote: From: olesonjo <olesonjo@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 5:48 PM I need some help. the fancy goldfish, usually very active, started hiding at the bottom of the tank. He has a filmy white substance on his tail. He seems to have dropsy. ( l looked on the links and photos) I have a friend going to the pet store for a ph kit, and some epsom salt, and to ask advice, but would welcome any suggestions. I have taken the fish out of the tank. I don't have a heater for the tank, so although I read somewhere that I should have the water at about 89degrees. I really want to help this guy and don't want to lose him. Thanks for any help Joanna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31836	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

Yes, and the ones extinct in nature from habitat loss are better in our tanks than gone forever. My two cents. -Mike And yes, I worry about whether it's humane to keep fish in a glass box. But I soothe the worry with thoughts that my glass box is more humane than what the fish would likely be in otherwise, since they are tank raised and would not be free. I don't buy wild. -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 2:49 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) But I think Lenny's original point was the pleasure aspect. I don't think those who slaughter feed cattle feel pleasure. How many of us on fish forums have read posts by people who want to know if you put two unsuitable predator fish together, which would win? Or want to describe their experiences or video's having done so? And yes, I worry about whether it's humane to keep fish in a glass box. But I soothe the worry with thoughts that my glass box is more humane than what the fish would likely be in otherwise, since they are tank raised and would not be free. I don't buy wild. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) I am not looking to rial anyone up here, but i just wanted to write out my perspective i guess, which is probably very poor. :) 1. A friend of mine has a ciclid tank. He will on occasion live feed them. 2. he has a guppy tank where guppies are raised for this reason. now, lenny makes the point that feeding hamsters to dogs or cats is bad and possibly illegal, and that maybe true, but there is a better analogy here that i think fits alot better, and should hit home to everyone here, save maybe vegetarians. Humans raise cattle in enclosed fields where they have (relatively) no chance of escape. The cattle are grown to the point that they can be used for food, and herded into a slaughtering plant where they have no chance of even surviving, no where to hide, nothing. Walk in a cow roll out a hamburger. This is just one of 100s of examples of how humans manipulate animals for our needs and survival. I suppose we could all become vegetarians, but even that wouldn't be enough, because that carrot your munching on didn't have a chance either when you yanked it out of the ground. I guess that leaves you with vegan, if i recall they are one of the strictest diets around. We could also talk about the fish in your tanks in general. Is it fair to keep them locked up? Again i do not aim this at any person, i clipped the replies from this message just for that reason. this is a standalone thought, and how i look at the issue. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31837	From: Katie Craft	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: "Missing Fish" - "feeder" fish

Hello Everyone!   I'm new to the hobby and already addicted! I have two tanks, a 10 and 30 gallon, and I am a big fancy goldfish and betta fan. I was really saddened by the video, and I think anyone who enjoys watching another being become terrorized and tortured has a serious screw loose - and I will take it a step further and say that someone like that needs serious help because that is one of the number one warning signs for someone pre-disposed to violent crime against a human. Yes there are carnivorous fish some hobbyist keep, but why in this day and age cant these fish be put onto a high protein, high nutrient commercial food?? These are not wild fish and will never know the difference - heck, they will most likely be healthier and live longer!! Not only that, it begs the question why you would want, to begin with, something you will have to feed live fish to - and if you enjoy that and the thought excites you, then run dont walk to therapy because there is something really wrong with you! Did it ever occur to these same "hobbyists" that fish other than your own have feelings too?? And that some of us keep the very fish you treat as disposable "food" as pets we actually respect and love?? Anyone who knows anything about fish - even me - knows that the tanks full of "feeders" are way over-stocked at pet stores. But those of you who buy them to feed dont care, or you would stop buying them so this cruel treatment stopped. I'm sorry to say that, but hey...would you ever stock your own tanks to that level???? Come on now...just because they are "feeder" goldfish does not make them any less worthy than the carnivorous fish kept in humane conditions that they are fed to. They are not "food", they are fish, and no other fish are treated as poorly in the pet store, so why them? Your fish are not living in the wild and I'm sure we could find an alternative to live feeds, just I believe in this day and age we can find an alternative to to giving reptiles live food (or supporting a whole sub-business dedicated to killing small animals to be fed to reptiles). * Heres some food for thought - your dog is a carnivore, isn't he/she??? And do you feed your dog small animals because that is "natural"???? * Think about that next time those of you who feed you snakes or carnivorous fish - I love my goldfish and respect them, and I hate to see any act of animal cruelty - and the way so called feeder fish are kept is not acceptable, and all of us who are fish enthusiasts now it, but not all of us seem to want to admit it! I hate seeing those 20 gallon tanks with 100's of goldfish!! If things were reversed, what carnivorous fish keepers who love their fish think if they walked into Petco and saw 100's of their fish stocked in a puny 10 gallon?? Its like seeing people buy a fish bowl - ahhh! I cant believe stores still sell those knowing what we know today! The things we people so to so called "lesser" species...so unfair, and so cruel. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31838	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: "Missing Fish" - "feeder" fish

I take issue with your statement ". . . I will take it a step further and say that someone like that needs serious help because that is one of the number one warning signs for someone pre-disposed to violent crime against a human." In that the only evidence I could find supporting that statement was abuse of dogs and cats--no mention of fish. The plain and simple of it is that some fish eat other fish as a big part of their diet, and all fish will eat other fish given the opportunity. It really makes no difference to the fish if they are supplied the live fish entrée, of if they come upon it in another manner. A hungry Channa spp. Will eat others of its own species if food is scarce enough. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Craft Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] "Missing Fish" - "feeder" fish Hello Everyone!   I'm new to the hobby and already addicted! I have two tanks, a 10 and 30 gallon, and I am a big fancy goldfish and betta fan. I was really saddened by the video, and I think anyone who enjoys watching another being become terrorized and tortured has a serious screw loose - and I will take it a step further and say that someone like that needs serious help because that is one of the number one warning signs for someone pre-disposed to violent crime against a human. Yes there are carnivorous fish some hobbyist keep, but why in this day and age cant these fish be put onto a high protein, high nutrient commercial food?? These are not wild fish and will never know the difference - heck, they will most likely be healthier and live longer!! Not only that, it begs the question why you would want, to begin with, something you will have to feed live fish to - and if you enjoy that and the thought excites you, then run dont walk to therapy because there is something really wrong with you! Did it ever occur to these same "hobbyists" that fish other than your own have feelings too?? And that some of us keep the very fish you treat as disposable "food" as pets we actually respect and love?? Anyone who knows anything about fish - even me - knows that the tanks full of "feeders" are way over-stocked at pet stores. But those of you who buy them to feed dont care, or you would stop buying them so this cruel treatment stopped. I'm sorry to say that, but hey...would you ever stock your own tanks to that level???? Come on now...just because they are "feeder" goldfish does not make them any less worthy than the carnivorous fish kept in humane conditions that they are fed to. They are not "food", they are fish, and no other fish are treated as poorly in the pet store, so why them? Your fish are not living in the wild and I'm sure we could find an alternative to live feeds, just I believe in this day and age we can find an alternative to to giving reptiles live food (or supporting a whole sub-business dedicated to killing small animals to be fed to reptiles). * Heres some food for thought - your dog is a carnivore, isn't he/she??? And do you feed your dog small animals because that is "natural"???? * Think about that next time those of you who feed you snakes or carnivorous fish - I love my goldfish and respect them, and I hate to see any act of animal cruelty - and the way so called feeder fish are kept is not acceptable, and all of us who are fish enthusiasts now it, but not all of us seem to want to admit it! I hate seeing those 20 gallon tanks with 100's of goldfish!! If things were reversed, what carnivorous fish keepers who love their fish think if they walked into Petco and saw 100's of their fish stocked in a puny 10 gallon?? Its like seeing people buy a fish bowl - ahhh! I cant believe stores still sell those knowing what we know today! The things we people so to so called "lesser" species...so unfair, and so cruel. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31839	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Just spent the last half hour skimming it. All the good Cichlids and Live bearers in California are in Southern California. Road trip! Get a Hazmat suit and go check out the Salton Sea this winter maybe. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31840	From: James	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: My tiger barb

My last Tiger Barb, is going around in circles and swimming kinda weird his tail is pointing more down. Well I just did a bunch of medication since the other 4 Tiger Barbs all died of Ick and or popeye (eyes where all white). Thanks, James

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31841	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: "Missing Fish" - "feeder" fish

I was biting my tongue until I read your statement Steve. One of the Animal Rights activists favorite arguments is that those that kill animals end up becoming serial killers. Total Bull**T! As for feeding animals other animals... Reptiles sometimes need things that cannot be acquired from dead tissue. They need their prey animals to be well fed prior to being fed to them. "Gut loading" is the term sometimes used. I have friends that work with cichlids that are not often bred or have never been bred successfully. One of the primary things leading to success in breeding them is live foods. Not fancy goldfish, brine shrimp and maybe other live fish but certainly not for fun.  Fish that can and do breed succesfully with prepared foods like flakes and pellets do so much better with live foods like brine shrimp. I have sat through lecture after lecture, convention after convention for some 6 years now and the common thread to succesful fish breeding is live foods. Again not for fun, but for succesfull breeding. As someone that has occasional successes at breeding fish I know first hand that when I dump live mosquito larvae in a tank the fish color up in 24 hours and tend to breed in short order. Even the high dollar high quality New Life Spectrum foods don't compete with live foods. Equating domestic pets to ALL non domestic animals is a mistake on so many levels. If some of you want to get a heads up on what animal rights activists are up to as far as taking your pets away (all pets!) contact me off list and I will forward you to a couple lists that deal with these ill informed dangerous people. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 3:53 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] "Missing Fish" - "feeder" fish I take issue with your statement ". . . I will take it a step further and say that someone like that needs serious help because that is one of the number one warning signs for someone pre-disposed to violent crime against a human." In that the only evidence I could find supporting that statement was abuse of dogs and cats--no mention of fish. The plain and simple of it is that some fish eat other fish as a big part of their diet, and all fish will eat other fish given the opportunity. It really makes no difference to the fish if they are supplied the live fish entrée, of if they come upon it in another manner. A hungry Channa spp. Will eat others of its own species if food is scarce enough. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Craft Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] "Missing Fish" - "feeder" fish Hello Everyone!   I'm new to the hobby and already addicted! I have two tanks, a 10 and 30 gallon, and I am a big fancy goldfish and betta fan. I was really saddened by the video, and I think anyone who enjoys watching another being become terrorized and tortured has a serious screw loose - and I will take it a step further and say that someone like that needs serious help because that is one of the number one warning signs for someone pre-disposed to violent crime against a human. Yes there are carnivorous fish some hobbyist keep, but why in this day and age cant these fish be put onto a high protein, high nutrient commercial food?? These are not wild fish and will never know the difference - heck, they will most likely be healthier and live longer!! Not only that, it begs the question why you would want, to begin with, something you will have to feed live fish to - and if you enjoy that and the thought excites you, then run dont walk to therapy because there is something really wrong with you! Did it ever occur to these same "hobbyists" that fish other than your own have feelings too?? And that some of us keep the very fish you treat as disposable "food" as pets we actually respect and love?? Anyone who knows anything about fish - even me - knows that the tanks full of "feeders" are way over-stocked at pet stores. But those of you who buy them to feed dont care, or you would stop buying them so this cruel treatment stopped. I'm sorry to say that, but hey...would you ever stock your own tanks to that level???? Come on now...just because they are "feeder" goldfish does not make them any less worthy than the carnivorous fish kept in humane conditions that they are fed to. They are not "food", they are fish, and no other fish are treated as poorly in the pet store, so why them? Your fish are not living in the wild and I'm sure we could find an alternative to live feeds, just I believe in this day and age we can find an alternative to to giving reptiles live food (or supporting a whole sub-business dedicated to killing small animals to be fed to reptiles). * Heres some food for thought - your dog is a carnivore, isn't he/she??? And do you feed your dog small animals because that is "natural"???? * Think about that next time those of you who feed you snakes or carnivorous fish - I love my goldfish and respect them, and I hate to see any act of animal cruelty - and the way so called feeder fish are kept is not acceptable, and all of us who are fish enthusiasts now it, but not all of us seem to want to admit it! I hate seeing those 20 gallon tanks with 100's of goldfish!! If things were reversed, what carnivorous fish keepers who love their fish think if they walked into Petco and saw 100's of their fish stocked in a puny 10 gallon?? Its like seeing people buy a fish bowl - ahhh! I cant believe stores still sell those knowing what we know today! The things we people so to so called "lesser" species...so unfair, and so cruel. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31842	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

Seems violence is part of entertainment these days. Anyone watch UFC? ultimate fighting championships? Its a very violent sport. I enjoy watching it. I guess the main difference here is that the two athletes are agreeing to do what they do, and not being forced to do it. ah well. i toss in the towel on this whole subject. :) On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...>wrote: > But I think Lenny's original point was the pleasure aspect. I don't > think > those who slaughter feed cattle feel pleasure. > > How many of us on fish forums have read posts by people who want to know if > you put two unsuitable predator fish together, which would win? Or want to > describe their experiences or video's having done so? > > And yes, I worry about whether it's humane to keep fish in a glass box. But > I soothe the worry with thoughts that my glass box is more humane than what > the fish would likely be in otherwise, since they are tank raised and would > not be free. I don't buy wild. > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) > > > I am not looking to rial anyone up here, but i just wanted to write out my > perspective i guess, which is probably very poor. :) > > 1. A friend of mine has a ciclid tank. He will on occasion live feed them. > > 2. he has a guppy tank where guppies are raised for this reason. > > now, lenny makes the point that feeding hamsters to dogs or cats is bad and > possibly illegal, and that maybe true, but there is a better analogy here > that i think fits alot better, and should hit home to everyone here, save > maybe vegetarians. > > Humans raise cattle in enclosed fields where they have (relatively) no > chance of escape. The cattle are grown to the point that they can be used > for food, and herded into a slaughtering plant where they have no chance of > even surviving, no where to hide, nothing. Walk in a cow roll out a > hamburger. This is just one of 100s of examples of how humans manipulate > animals for our needs and survival. > > I suppose we could all become vegetarians, but even that wouldn't be > enough, > because that carrot your munching on didn't have a chance either when you > yanked it out of the ground. I guess that leaves you with vegan, if i > recall > they are one of the strictest diets around. > > We could also talk about the fish in your tanks in general. Is it fair to > keep them locked up? > > Again i do not aim this at any person, i clipped the replies from this > message just for that reason. this is a standalone thought, and how i look > at the issue. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31843	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

That's why I started the thread.. to discuss/debate and get thoughts on the topic from others.... just to see if I was "normal". And I know there are many out here that might already have concluded otherwise. LOL Like I tried to clearly post in my OP, I understand feeding feeders to certain carnivorous fish but I guess it's more of the thought of the fish keeper being thrilled at it which seems to be the really bad part about it. There are countless videos posted on YouTube of people getting a kick out of this similar to the reactions that some folks have at dog fights or cock fights... and I guess boxing and extreme fighting matches too.. although the intent is not supposed to be killing each other in the human sports. LOL What does it do to kids, etc., to see their older siblings or parents getting a kick out of killing what could be a pet fish? What about parents who allow their kids to participate in the thrill? There are psych studies that show that a kid that gets a kick out of killing animals has a much higher propensity to be a socio-path when they become adults or older teens. I can only imagine that the majority of hunters, fisherman, farmers, etc., teach their children proper respect for the animals. At least, I know that is how I was raised. I did do a lot of fishing while growing up and we always ate what we caught or gave some to others. We didn't get a thrill out of killing the fish after we caught them.. and I often remember feeling sorry for them... but that went away once they were on the dinner plate. LOL As I stated earlier, I'm not really what one could consider a hunter since I only went deer hunting one time as a teenager and didn't even see a damned deer and just froze my butt off.. so the deer won that round! LOL I am a member of the NRA, since I support the 2nd Amendment and they are a good lobbyist for that cause, and I know they teach various classes about ethics, hunting, gun safety, etc. Here's their "Hunter's Ethics" page.. http://www.nrahq.org/hunting/nraethics.asp and "Young Hunter Education Info" http://www.nrahq.org/hunting/youthed.asp I've never worked on a farm or at a cattle processing plant but I would imagine the workers don't get their kicks out of killing the cows... and once again, a cow is not a typical pet like goldfish and guppies. I also made the point about vegetarians viciously ripping the fruit or vegetable from the ground or off the limb and then viciously slaughtering it. LOL My personal thoughts are that God put man in control of all of the plants and animals to use for our needs. For folks that don't believe in God, then Darwinism's survival of the fittest would be applicable. I don't think anyone believes we are just supposed to wait until something dies naturally before we eat it. And that wouldn't even come close to working for vegetarians. And I'm not opposed at all to hunting, farming, gardening, etc. as that is how we survive as our human species. In the wild, the animals eat for survival, they don't usually kill for thrill... at least I've never seen a stuffed animal in any bear caves, etc. LOL I think that's a trait only for us humans. OK... enough for this reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 4:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) I am not looking to rial anyone up here, but i just wanted to write out my perspective i guess, which is probably very poor. :) 1. A friend of mine has a ciclid tank. He will on occasion live feed them. 2. he has a guppy tank where guppies are raised for this reason. now, lenny makes the point that feeding hamsters to dogs or cats is bad and possibly illegal, and that maybe true, but there is a better analogy here that i think fits alot better, and should hit home to everyone here, save maybe vegetarians. Humans raise cattle in enclosed fields where they have (relatively) no chance of escape. The cattle are grown to the point that they can be used for food, and herded into a slaughtering plant where they have no chance of even surviving, no where to hide, nothing. Walk in a cow roll out a hamburger. This is just one of 100s of examples of how humans manipulate animals for our needs and survival. I suppose we could all become vegetarians, but even that wouldn't be enough, because that carrot your munching on didn't have a chance either when you yanked it out of the ground. I guess that leaves you with vegan, if i recall they are one of the strictest diets around. We could also talk about the fish in your tanks in general. Is it fair to keep them locked up? Again i do not aim this at any person, i clipped the replies from this message just for that reason. this is a standalone thought, and how i look at the issue. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 4:31:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:37:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31844	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: 125G Tang Tank Project

For a change of pace and switch to a more positive topic, just wanted to share. I'm working on a project to switch over my 125G 72" tank from Malawi mbuna to a planted Lake Tanganyika community. I'm in the process of ordering things (75G tank/stand, filters, shells) now, as well as catching mbuna from the current tank that will be passed along to other hobbyists to downsize the herd. In order to catch the fish, I have to remove 200 pounds of rocks. Both tanks (new Malawi 75G and converted Tang 125G) will have rocks used in the aquascape, but mostly the original 200 pounds should be sufficient for both tanks.the Malawi need the tank filled, but the 75G is smaller. The Tangs need more open space, so should be able to use the leftovers. I have used Pangea backgrounds in both of my tanks so far, and will do it again with this third tank. Anyone else ever use one? Or a Back To Nature? The backgrounds are installed inside the tank but with a space behind to conceal heaters and filter intakes. They are very realistic and were originally designed for zoo displays. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31845	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction

Ray, how was it? I was not able to attend. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31846	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

I'm answering here but it was an earlier reply that brought up the point about us fish keepers even keeping fish in relatively small containers but I just thought about my reply now. As long as fish keepers strive to provide adequately sized tanks, do fishless cycling or provide other means (planted tank, Dr. Tim's, etc.) to insure the fish do not have to "cycle" the tank themselves, then technically, we are providing better homes for them than they would have in the wild. In the wild, the average life span of fish are much shorter than fish that are properly kept in homes. I would suspect that since so many newbie's do not know what they are doing when they start off, they have a much higher mortality rate but even with that higher rate factored in, I would still think our pet fish are living longer, on average, than their wild counterparts. Same for cats and dogs. Donna, what about fishing for pleasure? There are far more people that fish for pleasure (I think) than hunt and once again, the majority of sport fisherman and hunters eat what they kill.. but they still have lots of fun on their little fishing/hunting ventures. Of course, some of the fun while fishing might be attributable to the numbers of beers one might consume during the fishing outing... but it's also fun to catch the fish too! I think the thrill or pleasure in these cases come from the hunt rather than the kill... kind of like us guys chasing you girls.... the chase and catch is always more fun than the aftermath (aka divorce). LOL Instead of shrimp, you need to start sucking the heads and pinching the tails.... of crawfish! That way, you don't have to peel the little legs off! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) It's not so much that I am anti hunting, as I am anti-pleasure in hunting. As a necessity, I get it. As fun.I don't. I'd probably be a vegetarian if I had to kill the food myself, and yes, that makes me a coward letting others do the dirty work and avoiding thoughts of how the food got on my plate. I do have trouble eating shrimp if I have to first pull off it's little legs.but the feeling passes within 24 hours, LOL. One of my favorite foods is fish.and I keep them as pets! I'm really messed up! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 3:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) Oops... I'm so used to getting those kinds of "pointed" questions from Dora. Sorry (to both parties) to mistake you for Dora... or Dora for you! LOL So, presuming you are anti-hunting (based on your line of questioning)... are you also a vegetarian? Is it more fair to the animals being eaten to be hunted on an individual basis or raised on a farm to go to slaughter? Should anyone who is anti-hunting also be anti-meat in general since most meat food items must be killed first? ... except for them college kids and other whackos that do the goldfish swallowing thing... LOL And for vegetarians... shouldn't plants, fruit and vegetables also have rights? Should they just be chopped down, viciously yanked from their branch or pulled from the ground and then be slaughtered and eaten? They don't even have a chance to get away from you vicious vegetarians like an animal does from a hunter. LOL (I'm only saying this to illustrate that any this-right or that-right type group could make an argument for their cause du jour.) Dang it Greychildren... look what you started! Just kidding. ;-) I like informative and intelligent discussion even when it might veer off-topic a little... or a lot. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) Wait, that was Donna (DJRansome) not Dora. I apologize, I thought you had mentioned it in a post long ago. I have many hunters to whom I am related, and we have this friendly debate repeatedly. I don't see how eating what they kill makes it any different, unless they do so out of economic necessity and find the process distasteful but necessary. You are absolutely right of course, that hunting in the woods is very different from putting prey in a closed container. So enough said since this is a fish forum.sorry for raising the issue. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) Why would you imply that I'm a hunter? Dora, you really know nothing about me, except maybe for what I intentionally put out on the internet about me, but if you ever decided to research anything first, you could simply Google my name and find out so much about me (over 2,000 hits the last time I checked). However, you won't find anything about me being a hunter... except for when I hunted down people for a living. Further, if you knew anything about the typical "human hunters", you'll know that the overwhelming majority of them (in the USA) eat what they kill and do not just kill for the thrill... although criminals certainly may be the exception. Yes, there are exceptions where someone will kill something merely for the trophy kill but that is not the typical hunter. Besides, trophy hunting is mostly illegal in the USA although there are exceptions mostly in the sport fishing industry. The other thing is, once again (if you would read first), there's an ENORMOUS difference between a human going out into the wild, to track and hunt down a wild animal (whether it be a hunter or fisherman) for food, versus putting a defenseless pet-type animal into a closed container where it has no chance of escape. There are also laws against "baiting" in most areas, although it is done in many areas, where the hunter, trying to get an edge on the wild animal, will bait a certain area to draw in the subject of the hunt. I also noted the exception for "natural" killings that took place unintentionally with adult fish eating their fry or the eggs or fry from other fish is a natural thing and usually not done intentionally by the fish keeper. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) I too worry about people who experience pleasure in watching a predator capture and devour live prey. But Lenny, aren't you a hunter? I guess I tend to group human hunters into that category. If the thrill of hunting was just being in the woods and tracking the animals, wouldn't the hunter use a camera? OK.that'll start some controversy, LOL! Regarding feeding live animals to pets, my two cents is this: some can wean their pets to non-live foods. I believe there are frozen mice available for snakes. Some do, some don't either because of the pleasure aspect or they think the live foods are better for their pet. I prefer to avoid pets that truly require live foods, both due to displeasure (squeamishness, gross-ness, whatever) and inconvenience. On the other hand, there was a boy scout merit badge my son worked on where we bought live crickets for a skink we captured in the yard and kept for a month. It was gross buying a writhing mass of crickets, but cool to watch the skink snap them up. I do have pets that eat their relatives, however. African cichlids produce copius amounts of fry and if you let the mothers spit the fry in the community tank, they are usually eaten by the adults. This does not give me pleasure, but instead it's sort of a "Awwww" reaction. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly other pets like turtles, etc. For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the USA. Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling and death by a predator-type pet. And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges anyhow. I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding heart... but I do still have one! Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing this subject matter. So... what do others think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down here in south Florida. For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> > > com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:42:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 4:41:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:48:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31847	From: hank voss	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bubuci@... wrote: > Tania: I raised many M.boesemani over the years. Its basically a peaceful fish but some males can get quite testy when they get larger,they will get to 4-5 in.so you should give them a good sized tank.They are an open water fish.They will eat anything.Their colors do not change (day by day) if thats what you mean, they do intensify as they mature. Since they are anactive fish in groups I dont think the loach will annoy them(if the tank is large enough).Very easy fish to breed,but the fry are very small.Anything else about them please ask. Regards Hank -------------------------------------- > Hey Gang, > > Here's another one for ya! Does anyone have experience with Bosemani Rainbow Fish? I am thinking about getting some and would love to hear more about them and what makes their colors change, what they like to eat, etc. Are they peaceful, do they need hiding places? Will a Dojo loach stress them out? I've read a few profiles, but wanted to hear about personal experience. Thanks in advance. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Since you're in Cali, why don't you go buy a big 300 or 400 gallon PLUS tank and adopt Bruce the Eel. LOL I think I'm going to have to update my Craigslist ad. I haven't gotten any new emails except from people asking if I'd ship it. When I tell them to send me $500.00+ for shipping, they change their mind. LOL And not a single clearly identified scam attempt yet... of course my Gmail spam filter could be catching them ahead of time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just spent the last half hour skimming it. All the good Cichlids and Live bearers in California are in Southern California. Road trip! Get a Hazmat suit and go check out the Salton Sea this winter maybe. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:03:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:59:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31849	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

Once again, the difference is that the "intent" is not to kill in UFC or boxing matches... and as you pointed out, they are knowingly entering the sport. Same with NASCAR... many get a kick out of a wreck or crash but then are saddened to hear someone was hurt or killed. Same with NFL Football... we like to see a good hit but not if it results in a player being injured or killed. That was the intent of my OP... to discuss the "thrill" aspect at watching something get killed and eaten. I understand having to feed certain fish live foods... or when fish decide to attack each other in a tank... or fish eating newborn fry... but I don't comprehend their owners getting a "kick" out of the otherwise pet fish being killed/eaten. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) Seems violence is part of entertainment these days. Anyone watch UFC? ultimate fighting championships? Its a very violent sport. I enjoy watching it. I guess the main difference here is that the two athletes are agreeing to do what they do, and not being forced to do it. ah well. i toss in the towel on this whole subject. :) On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> >wrote: > But I think Lenny's original point was the pleasure aspect. I don't > think those who slaughter feed cattle feel pleasure. > > How many of us on fish forums have read posts by people who want to > know if you put two unsuitable predator fish together, which would > win? Or want to describe their experiences or video's having done so? > > And yes, I worry about whether it's humane to keep fish in a glass > box. But I soothe the worry with thoughts that my glass box is more > humane than what the fish would likely be in otherwise, since they are > tank raised and would not be free. I don't buy wild. > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing > fish) > > > I am not looking to rial anyone up here, but i just wanted to write > out my perspective i guess, which is probably very poor. :) > > 1. A friend of mine has a ciclid tank. He will on occasion live feed them. > > 2. he has a guppy tank where guppies are raised for this reason. > > now, lenny makes the point that feeding hamsters to dogs or cats is > bad and possibly illegal, and that maybe true, but there is a better > analogy here that i think fits alot better, and should hit home to > everyone here, save maybe vegetarians. > > Humans raise cattle in enclosed fields where they have (relatively) no > chance of escape. The cattle are grown to the point that they can be > used for food, and herded into a slaughtering plant where they have no > chance of even surviving, no where to hide, nothing. Walk in a cow > roll out a hamburger. This is just one of 100s of examples of how > humans manipulate animals for our needs and survival. > > I suppose we could all become vegetarians, but even that wouldn't be > enough, because that carrot your munching on didn't have a chance > either when you yanked it out of the ground. I guess that leaves you > with vegan, if i recall they are one of the strictest diets around. > > We could also talk about the fish in your tanks in general. Is it fair > to keep them locked up? > > Again i do not aim this at any person, i clipped the replies from this > message just for that reason. this is a standalone thought, and how i > look at the issue. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:34:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:10:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31850	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31851	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

AS where I do live not too far from him, North Bay, I just can't squeeze 300 gallon tank in the fish room now :) as cool as it would be to have a Moray like Bruce. The newest incarnation of the fish room has 6 55 gallon tanks, half dozen 29 gallon tanks, about the same on 20 gallon, a 100 gallon, some tens and 5 1/2's and am making space for my 110 and a 70 gallon setup and I will be at max capacity with no room for expansion :( It was a one car garage converted to a living space, now it's my new fish room. -Mike Since you're in Cali, why don't you go buy a big 300 or 400 gallon PLUS tank and adopt Bruce the Eel. LOL I think I'm going to have to update my Craigslist ad. I haven't gotten any new emails except from people asking if I'd ship it. When I tell them to send me $500.00+ for shipping, they change their mind. LOL And not a single clearly identified scam attempt yet... of course my Gmail spam filter could be catching them ahead of time. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 4:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Since you're in Cali, why don't you go buy a big 300 or 400 gallon PLUS tank and adopt Bruce the Eel. LOL I think I'm going to have to update my Craigslist ad. I haven't gotten any new emails except from people asking if I'd ship it. When I tell them to send me $500.00+ for shipping, they change their mind. LOL And not a single clearly identified scam attempt yet... of course my Gmail spam filter could be catching them ahead of time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just spent the last half hour skimming it. All the good Cichlids and Live bearers in California are in Southern California. Road trip! Get a Hazmat suit and go check out the Salton Sea this winter maybe. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:03:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:59:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31852	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: FW Sand Substates

Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31853	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow

Hank! Thanks so much! Great, so more questions then! ;) So the males get testy with eachother? The females or other fish? The will probably eat my guppies right? As for the color changes, I read that their yellow may turn orange + blue/steel to purple at certain times of day or when displaying to a male or female. If I get Millenium and Boesemani Rainbows,will they school? Thanks so much again Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "hank voss" <aatetras@...> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:00:50 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Boesemani Rainbow --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bubuci@... wrote: > Tania: I raised many M.boesemani over the years. Its basically a peaceful fish but some males can get quite testy when they get larger,they will get to 4-5 in.so you should give them a good sized tank.They are an open water fish.They will eat anything.Their colors do not change (day by day) if thats what you mean, they do intensify as they mature. Since they are anactive fish in groups I dont think the loach will annoy them(if the tank is large enough).Very easy fish to breed,but the fry are very small.Anything else about them please ask. Regards Hank -------------------------------------- > Hey Gang, > > Here's another one for ya! Does anyone have experience with Bosemani Rainbow Fish? I am thinking about getting some and would love to hear more about them and what makes their colors change, what they like to eat, etc. Are they peaceful, do they need hiding places? Will a Dojo loach stress them out? I've read a few profiles, but wanted to hear about personal experience. Thanks in advance. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31854	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

I'd take three of them; I'm in northeast Florida. I'd be willing to pay postage cost, via PayPal or check. I'm wondering how you ended up with so many; I had an apple snail a few years ago, and when it deposited eggs above the water line, I simply removed them so I wouldn't have more snails. Shirley --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > To ship snails, you take your tank water that you get them out of. Take a paper towel and wet it in the water and squease out the water. You want the paper towen damp not dripping. Take the snails and wrap in the damp paper towel. Put this in a bag with air in the bag. Then you get a box and put styrofoam in the box. All side and top and bottom. Depending on weather you may need a heat pack. Put the bag of snails in the box and then stuff the box with newspaper to fill it. If useing a heat pack you need to put it in the box AWAY from the plastic bag the snails are in. They heat using oxygen and will take it out of the bag if touching it. Then ship priorty mail and then snails will be fine. > > Pam > > > > Hi,Love apple snails. I'm happy to take some too, though have no idea howone would ship apple snails. I'm in Florida.But here is a thought, if the LFS doesn't work out...I bet the localschool system would be happy to take some...in grade school many, manyteachers keep aquariums for educational purposes and to teach the kidsresponsibility (cleaning, feeding, etc). Try to see if any of theschools' classrooms would give one or two a piece a home. You coulddonate to a good cause. Tho I would donate each with an instructionsheet because teachers tend to be busy and may not know proper snailcare. Good luckAlina--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Huss <cheese911@> wrote:>> > I'm with lenny, I'd be interested in taking one or two off of yourhands! I love snails but hate the reproduction rate. Since these areegg layers, that works out great!> Sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably wouldhave run scared the other way. However, you always find the strengthto meet whatever comes." -unknown > . > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31855	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Awww.. come on... what about that darned pesky wall in the living room? Can't it be removed for a BIG wall tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) AS where I do live not too far from him, North Bay, I just can't squeeze 300 gallon tank in the fish room now :) as cool as it would be to have a Moray like Bruce. The newest incarnation of the fish room has 6 55 gallon tanks, half dozen 29 gallon tanks, about the same on 20 gallon, a 100 gallon, some tens and 5 1/2's and am making space for my 110 and a 70 gallon setup and I will be at max capacity with no room for expansion :( It was a one car garage converted to a living space, now it's my new fish room. -Mike Since you're in Cali, why don't you go buy a big 300 or 400 gallon PLUS tank and adopt Bruce the Eel. LOL I think I'm going to have to update my Craigslist ad. I haven't gotten any new emails except from people asking if I'd ship it. When I tell them to send me $500.00+ for shipping, they change their mind. LOL And not a single clearly identified scam attempt yet... of course my Gmail spam filter could be catching them ahead of time. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 4:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Since you're in Cali, why don't you go buy a big 300 or 400 gallon PLUS tank and adopt Bruce the Eel. LOL I think I'm going to have to update my Craigslist ad. I haven't gotten any new emails except from people asking if I'd ship it. When I tell them to send me $500.00+ for shipping, they change their mind. LOL And not a single clearly identified scam attempt yet... of course my Gmail spam filter could be catching them ahead of time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just spent the last half hour skimming it. All the good Cichlids and Live bearers in California are in Southern California. Road trip! Get a Hazmat suit and go check out the Salton Sea this winter maybe. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> > > (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> > > led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> > > and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> > > led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> > > And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> > > Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> > > It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:03:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:59:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:24:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:30:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31856	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Uh, well as much as I like the new place, two houses on a medium sized lot, both of them are substandard when it comes to supporting more than my 250 pounds of blubber. Pier blocks and not enough of them anyway. The fishroom has a concrete slab as it was a garage. Maybe this next spring/summer I will tear out the floor and poor a slab and foundation in one room of the back house. That way I can expand my fish capacity and I do live in Earthquake country, don't want to slide into the neighbors yard! -Mike Awww.. come on... what about that darned pesky wall in the living room? Can't it be removed for a BIG wall tank? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 5:30 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Awww.. come on... what about that darned pesky wall in the living room? Can't it be removed for a BIG wall tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) AS where I do live not too far from him, North Bay, I just can't squeeze 300 gallon tank in the fish room now :) as cool as it would be to have a Moray like Bruce. The newest incarnation of the fish room has 6 55 gallon tanks, half dozen 29 gallon tanks, about the same on 20 gallon, a 100 gallon, some tens and 5 1/2's and am making space for my 110 and a 70 gallon setup and I will be at max capacity with no room for expansion :( It was a one car garage converted to a living space, now it's my new fish room. -Mike Since you're in Cali, why don't you go buy a big 300 or 400 gallon PLUS tank and adopt Bruce the Eel. LOL I think I'm going to have to update my Craigslist ad. I haven't gotten any new emails except from people asking if I'd ship it. When I tell them to send me $500.00+ for shipping, they change their mind. LOL And not a single clearly identified scam attempt yet... of course my Gmail spam filter could be catching them ahead of time. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 4:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Since you're in Cali, why don't you go buy a big 300 or 400 gallon PLUS tank and adopt Bruce the Eel. LOL I think I'm going to have to update my Craigslist ad. I haven't gotten any new emails except from people asking if I'd ship it. When I tell them to send me $500.00+ for shipping, they change their mind. LOL And not a single clearly identified scam attempt yet... of course my Gmail spam filter could be catching them ahead of time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just spent the last half hour skimming it. All the good Cichlids and Live bearers in California are in Southern California. Road trip! Get a Hazmat suit and go check out the Salton Sea this winter maybe. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> > > (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> > > led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> > > and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> > > led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> > > And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> > > Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> > > It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:03:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:59:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:24:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:30:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:14:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:46:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31858	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

I'm not sure if we've ever heard back from the OP.... at least I haven't seen or received a reply from them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails I'd take three of them; I'm in northeast Florida. I'd be willing to pay postage cost, via PayPal or check. I'm wondering how you ended up with so many; I had an apple snail a few years ago, and when it deposited eggs above the water line, I simply removed them so I wouldn't have more snails. Shirley --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > To ship snails, you take your tank water that you get them out of. Take a paper towel and wet it in the water and squease out the water. You want the paper towen damp not dripping. Take the snails and wrap in the damp paper towel. Put this in a bag with air in the bag. Then you get a box and put styrofoam in the box. All side and top and bottom. Depending on weather you may need a heat pack. Put the bag of snails in the box and then stuff the box with newspaper to fill it. If useing a heat pack you need to put it in the box AWAY from the plastic bag the snails are in. They heat using oxygen and will take it out of the bag if touching it. Then ship priorty mail and then snails will be fine. > > Pam > > > > Hi,Love apple snails. I'm happy to take some too, though have no idea howone would ship apple snails. I'm in Florida.But here is a thought, if the LFS doesn't work out...I bet the localschool system would be happy to take some...in grade school many, manyteachers keep aquariums for educational purposes and to teach the kidsresponsibility (cleaning, feeding, etc). Try to see if any of theschools' classrooms would give one or two a piece a home. You coulddonate to a good cause. Tho I would donate each with an instructionsheet because teachers tend to be busy and may not know proper snailcare. Good luckAlina--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Sarah Huss <cheese911@> wrote:>> > I'm with lenny, I'd be interested in taking one or two off of yourhands! I love snails but hate the reproduction rate. Since these areegg layers, that works out great!> Sarah> "With kids there's no guarantee, but you just deal with life as itcomes. If someone gave me a script of what was to be, I probably wouldhave run scared the other way. However, you always find the strengthto meet whatever comes." -unknown > . > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:48:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31859	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Cindy, do they add much bioload to a tank? How many gallons required per snail? I may want one;D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "jcjjj5" <jgilber1@...> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:55:24 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a lot of luck in that. Cindy www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31860	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Hi Cindy, I'm sending this email off-list, with a copy to the group. I replied to you on-list about how you could sell them in our group and other places but never heard back. I offered to buy a couple and many other members have as well... but I'm not sure if you've checked back. Here is your original thread and you'll have to read through and reply to all that asked. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31686 Tania, Apple snails, depending on the species can be a very low to no bioload or they can become a big bioload. Some of the apple snail species can grow to 4" diameter and be voracious plant eaters while others... the ones we're looking for... stay about 1/2 that size and mostly leave plants alone as long as they have algae and other food items to eat. Here's a good care sheet on them. http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Cindy, do they add much bioload to a tank? How many gallons required per snail? I may want one;D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "jcjjj5" < <mailto:jgilber1%40san.rr.com> > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:55:24 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a lot of luck in that. Cindy www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 8:02:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31861	From: greychildren	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

Its nature and aggressive fish will eat. But it should not be played and glorified as it was on the video. the point I'm trying to get to is that responsible aquarium keepers should not keep this species of fish in there aquariums, and i also will place the blame on LFS who sell them. Do to there destructive nature. http://floridafisheries.com/Fishes/prohibited.html#snakehead I placed the local Florida prohibit species --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. > > My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when > keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live > mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of > their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto > processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by > others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but > I know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my > local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy > these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly > other pets like turtles, etc. > > For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally > feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed > baby hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two > analogies when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to > larger carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal > cruelty criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in > the USA. > > Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between > aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not > intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally > subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling > and death by a predator-type pet. > > And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only > use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to > have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is > that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different > than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog > fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it > seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. > > Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've > never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider > cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since > roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there > are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid > having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might > have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by > humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all > being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I > don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in > a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this > type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges > anyhow. > > I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to > watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I > still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I > buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite > often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL > > Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk > politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. > > > And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of > any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political > persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding > heart... but I do still have one! > > Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other > pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing > this subject matter. > > So... what do others think? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish > > I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I > seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread > full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it > also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down > here in south Florida. > > For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc> > > - > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:07:25 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31862	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:14:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:46:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31863	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy /Joanna

Thank you, I am not sure what the filmy stuff on the tail is. A lot of it came off when I put him in the new tank, so maybe it is nothing, and the dropsy is the main thing. I got a heater to work, and my friend is at the pet store, so hopefully this will work. Thank you so much. Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Try this   http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm > > Harry > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31864	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Tanks, oops I mean thanks! ;D Lenny Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:02:26 To: <jgilber1@...>; <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Hi Cindy, I'm sending this email off-list, with a copy to the group. I replied to you on-list about how you could sell them in our group and other places but never heard back. I offered to buy a couple and many other members have as well... but I'm not sure if you've checked back. Here is your original thread and you'll have to read through and reply to all that asked. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31686 Tania, Apple snails, depending on the species can be a very low to no bioload or they can become a big bioload. Some of the apple snail species can grow to 4" diameter and be voracious plant eaters while others... the ones we're looking for... stay about 1/2 that size and mostly leave plants alone as long as they have algae and other food items to eat. Here's a good care sheet on them. http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Cindy, do they add much bioload to a tank? How many gallons required per snail? I may want one;D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "jcjjj5" < <mailto:jgilber1%40san.rr.com> > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:55:24 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a lot of luck in that. Cindy www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 8:02:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31865	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)

Hi Joanna, What is your fish keeping experience level and tell us more about your tank.. how big, what kind of filtration, planted or not, how many fish/goldfish, etc.? Also give us any and all water parameters that you may have? The most common ones that we have access to are usually ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH and temp. You've given us temp but the others would be helpful as well. First, I'm going to go over some of the likely causes of your goldfish problems so you can work on fixing some or all of these likely stressors while working on getting the fish well also. If you don't fix the cause of the problem, it will just return again. 89F is much too warm for goldfish. No you do not need a heater in most cases since they prefer cooler waters in the high 60's to low 70's but if your home temperature fluctuates down cooler than that, you may need a heater to keep the temperature at a more stable range. The stress of living in such warm water would make their immune system weaker and make it more susceptible to common bacteria that it might otherwise have been able to fight off with little or no problems. Further, warmer water holds a lower O2 level and goldfish need lots of O2, which is why they are cool/cold water fish. This would be another stressor to them. Tank size is another common stressor which affects their immune system. Another common stressor is water quality issues that are common for goldfish because of them being kept in undersized tanks. The main reason for goldfish issues is that they are often kept in undersized tanks. For long term success, a 55 gallon 4' long tank is suitable for a couple of fancy goldfish. I know this might seem large but even this size tank is the bare minimum size that I would recommend. I know you will find lots of sites and care sheets saying 1 gallon per inch or 10 gallons per goldfish but those are simply written by people who are uninformed or are based on old information... before we knew what it really takes to house goldfish long term. They should live to at least 10-15 years and the record is 43 years. Goldfish are supposed to be BIG fish but often will be severely stunted by folks keeping them in undersized tanks. The world record for a fancy goldfish is Bruce The Goldfish who is over 16" long now and as big around as a football (NFL to Rugby sized football... not a Soccer ball if you're outside the USA) Since your tank is so warm, do you have a way of putting the tank in a cooler area of your home? You could also point a fan at the surface of the water and add airstones to the tank or lower the water level a little so the filter returning water causes more splashing. These will help cool the water off a little more and raise the O2 levels but if your room temp is in the high 80's to 90's, you'll never get the water temp low enough to be truly comfortable for goldfish. If you are stuck with water in the low 80's, you might want to consider switching to tropical fish that can tolerate those higher temps. Does the goldfish have the clearly "Pine cone" effect that is the most visible effect of dropsy, where from the top looking down on them, their scales are sticking out like a pine cone? If yes, how long has it had dropsy? There is still a lot of information on the net that needs to be updated. Some of the most recent info that I've read are giving the best chances of curing dropsy by bringing the infected fish to a veterinarian for a series of antibiotic injections. There are many articles on theories of using epsom salt, regular salt, etc., but most of them are not very successful if the dropsy has progressed too far. I believe that even the few success stories were more a result of the fish keepers improving all of the other stress factors for the affected fish and then the fishes own immune system was able to fight off the disease (bacterial infection to the kidneys, liver and other internal organs) that causes dropsy. Last but not least, read over my own Goldfish Care Sheet and references http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/goldfish-care-sheet-fancy-goldfish.htm l (if the link breaks, just go to my blog and the link/label is on the right side if you scroll down to it) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 4:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail) I need some help. the fancy goldfish, usually very active, started hiding at the bottom of the tank. He has a filmy white substance on his tail. He seems to have dropsy. ( l looked on the links and photos) I have a friend going to the pet store for a ph kit, and some epsom salt, and to ask advice, but would welcome any suggestions. I have taken the fish out of the tank. I don't have a heater for the tank, so although I read somewhere that I should have the water at about 89degrees. I really want to help this guy and don't want to lose him. Thanks for any help Joanna _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 8:30:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31866	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)

When I wrote before, I was trying to say that I read that the temp for a fish with dropsy SHOULD be higher, 84 or so, but the water in the tank was not that warm. It is sort of cold in my apt. and maybe the water was actually too cold. I did put a heater in for a bit, but it didn't go up that high before I took it out. I am a really a beginner. I wrote to you when I first got the fish, and got some good help and advice. There are two fish in a 20 gal. tank, but I just got a 55 gal, and it is here, I just need to clean it out, and get the filtet going and set it up, and get them in. In the mean time the active tank has a filter and a bubble thing, I had to have a tank divider because the male was chasing the female around. I do put in the foating greens every once in a while. I do a PWC, not as often as i should, but pretty regularly. My friend went to the pet store for me tonight, and brought back some Maracyn-Two, which says it is for dropsy, septicemia, popeye, and fin and tail rot. It is a powder, and I put a portion of it in the bowl. ( I took him out of the tank) She didn't get the epsom salts, but did get Aquarium salt. I put a small amt of that in. He started to look more active after a short time. He was swimming around I'll get a ph and other measure kit tomorrow. I really only noticed the pine cone look today. He has been acting a little out of it, like not being right up at the top, jumping out of the water in anticipation of the food, as usual. I would almost have to get his attention, to let him know there was food. then today he was down at the bottom for a long time, and I looked at him, and realized... But I don't think he was puffed out like that before. I think it just started. Thank you. I did look at the blog before, but I'll go to that link. Thanks so much. Joanna - > > Last but not least, read over my own Goldfish Care Sheet and references > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/goldfish-care-sheet-fancy-goldfish.htm > l > (if the link breaks, just go to my blog and the link/label is on the right > side if you scroll down to it) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31867	From: ¤H3ATH3R¤	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Just so everyone knows. She has found a place to take them. She sent me an email. Heather -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Cindy, do they add much bioload to a tank? How many gallons required per snail? I may want one;D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "jcjjj5" <jgilber1@...> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:55:24 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a lot of luck in that. Cindy www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31868	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:14:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:46:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 8:25:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 9:51:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31869	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy /Joanna

That's most likely sluffing of excess slime coat. Excess slime coat could be from several reasons. Very low pH could be one of the reasons since the water becomes acidic and goldfish prefer basic (higher pH) water. It could also be related to parasites, infection, medicines or too much salt, too fast, etc. Tell us more about your tank, the tank history, the goldfishes history, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy /Joanna Thank you, I am not sure what the filmy stuff on the tail is. A lot of it came off when I put him in the new tank, so maybe it is nothing, and the dropsy is the main thing. I got a heater to work, and my friend is at the pet store, so hopefully this will work. Thank you so much. Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Try this http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm> > > Harry > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 9:57:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31870	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Thanks Heather. Darn.. and I was just thinking about which Christmas presents I could buy after adding up what my commission check was going to be from all these Apple Snail sales.... maybe 50 cents or a dollar just from the interested parties here. LOL I'm glad she found an LFS to take them and I hope they gave her a decent amount of store credit for them. My LFS gives me at least 50% of their retail price when I bring them a batch of Cherry Shrimp. Unfortunately, I don't buy as much from them anymore (since Katrina) so I'm building up a nice credit balance with them. They don't mind though. They are getting inventory they can sell and not have to pay for it for months or years later. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Just so everyone knows. She has found a place to take them. She sent me an email. Heather -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Cindy, do they add much bioload to a tank? How many gallons required per snail? I may want one;D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "jcjjj5" <jgilber1@... <mailto:jgilber1%40san.rr.com> > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:55:24 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a lot of luck in that. Cindy www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 10:11:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31871	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Yes, they do. They are called chillers and are a bit pricey. You can build your own, if you wish, with a small dorm refrigerator, some tools, tubing, a pump, and silicone. They are not quite as efficient, but they do work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31872	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers

Tania, Aquarium Chillers can be quite expensive... well over $500.00 or more depending on the tank size and cooling requirements... which is why the DIY chiller is a commonly looked at option. \\Steve// Quite a while back, when I first started keeping goldfish indoors, in order to NOT have to run my central A/C all of the time, I looked into the DIY chiller and I thought of two other less expensive options since I didn't want a dorm fridge in my living room. One option was to buy one of those piezo-electric coolers (six-pack size on up depending on the space allowable under the tank, tank size, etc.) and then putting an air pump inside it or just having a long coil of tubing sitting in the cooler so it would constantly pump chilled air into the tank. These types of coolers will usually lower the temp inside the cooler to around 30-40 degrees lower than the ambient (external) temperature. At first I was thinking about just putting the air pump inside the cooler but air pumps put out heat so that would partially or fully offset the cooler's abilities. Most air pumps that I've owned have the air intake on the bottom of the pump so my other option was to drill a hole in the side of the cooler, near the bottom (where the cooler air would be) and then silicone the air pump to the cooler so it sucks air from the cooler. A hole would also have to be drilled in the top on the other end, to allow fresh air into the cooler. My other option did involve a smaller dorm fridge but still just running a long coil of airline tubing through it which would chill the air passing through it and then into the tank. This would eliminate the need for a pump and plumbing (and another possible water leak source ... and further because a water pump that would push water through a 1/4" airline tubing is hard to find and having the smaller diameter airline tubing would be preferred to give the most water contact with the cooling surface of the airline tube. I was going to have to experiment with both of these ideas since I couldn't find either one being done already. Have you ever seen either of those two ideas tried? Another inexpensive option is a small window A/C unit just for the room where the tank is kept.. costs about $100-$150... keep the room at 72F and you'll benefit from the cooling as well, without having to run your central air as much for the rest of the house. As part of my hurricane preparedness upgrading done after Katrina, I bought a nice sized generator and a room sized window A/C unit. I haven't had to use it long term yet but I did run them for two 5-6 hour periods when we lost power during Gustav this summer. God, it was so nice to have power and air conditioning! I even ran long extension cords to a couple of my neighbors so they could save their refrigerated stuff and run a light and fan... but they had to come to my place if they wanted A/C! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Yes, they do. They are called chillers and are a bit pricey. You can build your own, if you wish, with a small dorm refrigerator, some tools, tubing, a pump, and silicone. They are not quite as efficient, but they do work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 10:28:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:01:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31873	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

I'm sitting her watching RedEye on Fox News Channel (a late night comedy hour-long show, that I recommend, that has some pretty warped humor at times... considering it's on Fox News) and right now, they are talking about PETA starting a campaign aimed at kids, to rename fish "Sea Kittens" to raise their fish-rights agenda against fisherman... and I'm sure us as well. I had to Google it to find out more and it's actually on their PETA2 website.. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/> http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/ They even have a Sea Kitten bed time story. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp PETA is pretty PathETicAl. Yes, pathetical is a word and it's the only one I could think of where PETA would fit within it and it applied to my thoughts about them. LOL <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:21:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31874	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Lenny, I do not have time for researching right now. You're teh one claiming danios are an invasive species; you should eb able to point us to the information. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:07:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:25:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31875	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31876	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

Lenny, I myself have two 50 watt heaters for a 20 gallon tank, but I live in central Texas. Even at my house teh temperature often dips into the 60's in the winter. I don't nkow about New Orleans, where you live. In most of the country frugal people don't heat their homes above 68 except in the summer, and many don't keep their homes that warm. I spent most of my life in New York State. I know that in the house my father built, my bedroom was only 55 in the winter. 65 is a usual temperature, adn there were winters when it was hard to pay the heating bills with the thermostat set at 60. And very well off people are usually the most frugal of all when it comes to heat; they don't believe in environmental nor financial waste. I boarded in the house of a college dean, and the temperature was around 60 and everyone put on big sweaters, and when I was doing some sort of campaigning people in hte large nice houses all had big heavy sweaters on. I learned to think that you spotted who never paid their heating bills by whose house was warm! And certainly I never had housemates who intended to pay the heating bills who insisted that the thermostat should be kept above 70. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Dora, I just wanted to clear up your comment about "100 watts per 10 gallons". For typical temperature controlled homes, where the temperature is kept between 72-78F, no more than 5W per gallon is needed, so a 50W heater is sufficient. Now, if someone allows their home temperature to dip down into the 60's or lower, then more than 5W per gallon would be needed, especially on a smaller sized tank. I certainly agree with having redundancy in tanks... whether it be heaters or filter systems but this is sometimes harder to do on smaller tanks like a 10G, without the hardware affecting the aesthetics of the tank too much. Having two 25W heaters, instead of one 50W heater in a 10G tank would be better in the event of heater failure... whether in the stuck on or stuck off positions... if the 25W heaters are short enough where they could both be laid down across the back of the tank so they aren't such distractions. I did a 10G tank with "Heater Failure Experiment" (title of the article) a couple of years ago and documented the drastic temperature swings that can happen in a 10G tank with a single heater that fails. My article is on my blog. This is another reason why it's actually easier to take care of larger tanks as the water parameters are more stabile. A 55G tank would take much, much longer to change temperature, compared to a 10G tank, so a heater failure or a temperature change in your home would not affect a 55G tank nearly as fast as in a 10G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think If the problem is a heater overheated the tank, if you simply turn off the heater the heat should dissipate. If teh fish haven't got heat stroke tehn no need to take more urgent action. Too few heaters or a broken heater could have caused this so you'll probably have to replace teh heater. Visitherm is a good brand. And if you have less than 100 watts per 10 gallons you may need to add more. Usually several heaters in teh tank is a good way to help avoid this sort fo thing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:54 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think I know large temp fluctuation is bad. Some how my heater got set to a very high temperature the other night i guess, i dont know when or exactly how. But the main thing is right now my tanks temp is 90 Degrees. My fish are all very active, which i thought was rather odd as they generally are a lot slower and more relaxed. So what should i do to bring my tank into a normal temp range? Should i just set the heater to an appropriate temp and let the heat dissipate? or should i lower the temp over days with the setting? If i should incrementally adjust how many days should i do it over and about how many degerees? I tihnk i need a new heater this ones settings change when you bump it funny and you have no idea what its temerature settings are really set at. its just one of those relative things. --Dave _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:50:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31877	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31878	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Couple more and I found this. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?SpeciesID=505 -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 9:51 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31879	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Dora.. this is your fifth time asking and my third time replying to you. How can you NOT find the time to do your own research, yet you can repeatedly post replies asking others to do the research for you? YOU COULD HAVE READ EVERY FRIGGIN' HIT ON GOOGLE WITH ALL THE TIME YOU'VE WASTED ASKING OTHERS TO DO IT FOR YOU. QUIT QUESTIONING WHAT I'VE TOLD YOU AND GO BACK AND LOOK AT MY ORIGINAL POST AND QUIT CALLING THEM JUST DANIOS... I SPECIFICALLY SAID "ZEBRA DANIOS" AND I POSTED THE PAGE THAT HAD THEM AND THEN I'VE SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU EXACTLY WHERE TO LOOK ON THAT PAGE AND SPECIFICALLY WHERE TO LOOK ON A COUPLE OF OTHER REPLIES SINCE THAT ORIGINAL POST. Now, scroll down in this email to my original post. Look at the link. Scroll down the alphabetized list to the Z's in the Fish Section and there you will find "Zebra Danio". TaDAAA... a miracle! God, it's so simple. No research involved... just follow the simple directions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Lenny, I do not have time for researching right now. You're teh one claiming danios are an invasive species; you should eb able to point us to the information. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:07:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:25:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:49:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31880	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

No Comment! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:49:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:22:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31881	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

No comment! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Lenny, I myself have two 50 watt heaters for a 20 gallon tank, but I live in central Texas. Even at my house teh temperature often dips into the 60's in the winter. I don't nkow about New Orleans, where you live. In most of the country frugal people don't heat their homes above 68 except in the summer, and many don't keep their homes that warm. I spent most of my life in New York State. I know that in the house my father built, my bedroom was only 55 in the winter. 65 is a usual temperature, adn there were winters when it was hard to pay the heating bills with the thermostat set at 60. And very well off people are usually the most frugal of all when it comes to heat; they don't believe in environmental nor financial waste. I boarded in the house of a college dean, and the temperature was around 60 and everyone put on big sweaters, and when I was doing some sort of campaigning people in hte large nice houses all had big heavy sweaters on. I learned to think that you spotted who never paid their heating bills by whose house was warm! And certainly I never had housemates who intended to pay the heating bills who insisted that the thermostat should be kept above 70. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Dora, I just wanted to clear up your comment about "100 watts per 10 gallons". For typical temperature controlled homes, where the temperature is kept between 72-78F, no more than 5W per gallon is needed, so a 50W heater is sufficient. Now, if someone allows their home temperature to dip down into the 60's or lower, then more than 5W per gallon would be needed, especially on a smaller sized tank. I certainly agree with having redundancy in tanks... whether it be heaters or filter systems but this is sometimes harder to do on smaller tanks like a 10G, without the hardware affecting the aesthetics of the tank too much. Having two 25W heaters, instead of one 50W heater in a 10G tank would be better in the event of heater failure... whether in the stuck on or stuck off positions... if the 25W heaters are short enough where they could both be laid down across the back of the tank so they aren't such distractions. I did a 10G tank with "Heater Failure Experiment" (title of the article) a couple of years ago and documented the drastic temperature swings that can happen in a 10G tank with a single heater that fails. My article is on my blog. This is another reason why it's actually easier to take care of larger tanks as the water parameters are more stabile. A 55G tank would take much, much longer to change temperature, compared to a 10G tank, so a heater failure or a temperature change in your home would not affect a 55G tank nearly as fast as in a 10G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think If the problem is a heater overheated the tank, if you simply turn off the heater the heat should dissipate. If teh fish haven't got heat stroke tehn no need to take more urgent action. Too few heaters or a broken heater could have caused this so you'll probably have to replace teh heater. Visitherm is a good brand. And if you have less than 100 watts per 10 gallons you may need to add more. Usually several heaters in teh tank is a good way to help avoid this sort fo thing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:54 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think I know large temp fluctuation is bad. Some how my heater got set to a very high temperature the other night i guess, i dont know when or exactly how. But the main thing is right now my tanks temp is 90 Degrees. My fish are all very active, which i thought was rather odd as they generally are a lot slower and more relaxed. So what should i do to bring my tank into a normal temp range? Should i just set the heater to an appropriate temp and let the heat dissipate? or should i lower the temp over days with the setting? If i should incrementally adjust how many days should i do it over and about how many degerees? I tihnk i need a new heater this ones settings change when you bump it funny and you have no idea what its temerature settings are really set at. its just one of those relative things. --Dave _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:50:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:59:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31882	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Mike, How could you possibly find that listing???? Could it possibly be that you followed the line-by-line, clearly itemized instructions I posted for someone else? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12% 3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31883	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Easy, You flew to California and clicked on the hyperlinks for me. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:25 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Mike, How could you possibly find that listing???? Could it possibly be that you followed the line-by-line, clearly itemized instructions I posted for someone else? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12% 3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31884	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Interesting... the NAS.ER.USGS.GOV site doesn't have ZD's listed in Louisiana yet the Gulf States site does have them listed for Louisiana. Typical US government... the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and we have to pay for it all. No government program would be able to keep their job if the program was in the private sector.. or if they did, at least I wouldn't be forced to support the waste. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Couple more and I found this. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?SpeciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?SpeciesID=505> -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 9:51 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12% 3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31885	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)

OK. I remember when you first posted now. Welcome back.. unfortunately under not-so-good circumstances. First and foremost, you MUST stick to at least weekly 25% PWC's... more frequent if the goldfish are overstocked or in an undersized tank. This is the only thing that will insure that the water quality stays half way decent. If the water quality starts to falter, so will the fish. Doing more frequent, like two PWC's a week is even more important if you do not have a master test kit to monitor the water parameters. Delaying the PWC's will only bring on poor water quality and poor health for the goldfish. I have to do weekly 25% PWC's with only two fancy goldfish in a 65G tank. Of course, mine are four years old so they are much larger than goldfish that might still be juveniles... but it's still very important to keep the water quality up... possibly even more important, since your fish will be more likely to be stunted since they are in an undersized tank right now... which brings on a whole new set of fish health problems. Yes, if your home gets much colder at night or is subject to large temperature swings, then it would be a good idea to have a heater to at least keep it at a minimum. If your daytime temp is in the mid 70's, then I would set the heater at 70F to 72F.. or even the same temp as the average daytime temp... so there is not a drastic drop and then rise in temperature each day. Long-bodied goldfish, like those living in ponds are much hardier and do OK in a pond where the temperature might swing more than 10F each day but fancy goldfish are not nearly as hardy so I would keep the temp much more consistent. My home and my tank stays around 74-76F year round so I do not have to worry about a heater but I do have extras laying around if my central heating ever failed during the winter time. Now as far as the Dropsy treatment, you should probably be treating in a larger container than a fish bowl. Do you have a 10g tank or a 5G bucket or something larger than a 1 or 2G bowl? If no, then I would probably treat the entire 20G tank with both Maracyn 1 and 2 and slowly bring the salt level up to 3 teaspoons per gallon. I don't think raising the temperature as high as you did would be beneficial for dropsy. Do you know where you read that? See the section on Dropsy on this page which kind of parallels what I just typed except they also recommend some good medicated foods as well. http://thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishIllness.html Here is a page that goes over most of the available medicated foods. http://thegab.org/Articles/PrintMedicatedFood.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail) When I wrote before, I was trying to say that I read that the temp for a fish with dropsy SHOULD be higher, 84 or so, but the water in the tank was not that warm. It is sort of cold in my apt. and maybe the water was actually too cold. I did put a heater in for a bit, but it didn't go up that high before I took it out. I am a really a beginner. I wrote to you when I first got the fish, and got some good help and advice. There are two fish in a 20 gal. tank, but I just got a 55 gal, and it is here, I just need to clean it out, and get the filtet going and set it up, and get them in. In the mean time the active tank has a filter and a bubble thing, I had to have a tank divider because the male was chasing the female around. I do put in the foating greens every once in a while. I do a PWC, not as often as i should, but pretty regularly. My friend went to the pet store for me tonight, and brought back some Maracyn-Two, which says it is for dropsy, septicemia, popeye, and fin and tail rot. It is a powder, and I put a portion of it in the bowl. ( I took him out of the tank) She didn't get the epsom salts, but did get Aquarium salt. I put a small amt of that in. He started to look more active after a short time. He was swimming around I'll get a ph and other measure kit tomorrow. I really only noticed the pine cone look today. He has been acting a little out of it, like not being right up at the top, jumping out of the water in anticipation of the food, as usual. I would almost have to get his attention, to let him know there was food. then today he was down at the bottom for a long time, and I looked at him, and realized... But I don't think he was puffed out like that before. I think it just started. Thank you. I did look at the blog before, but I'll go to that link. Thanks so much. Joanna - > > Last but not least, read over my own Goldfish Care Sheet and > references > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/goldfish-care-sheet-fancy-goldfi > sh.htm > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/goldfish-care-sheet-fancy-goldf > ish.htm> > l > (if the link breaks, just go to my blog and the link/label is on the > right side if you scroll down to it) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 1:44:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31886	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers

Steve + Lenny! Wow! Thanks for your reply and instructions. It is for a Weather Loach so I have read they can do well in 74 F as opposed to a temp which is a Comfy for us 77 or 78 room temp. In consideration of the 500 price on a chiller and the extra large equipment for the DIY(my husband won't go for that) + extra a/c unit, I think if I just try to find some aquarium Lights that don't produce any heat in a tank(ideas?), plus the fact that my husband keeps the house freezing, they'll be ok. I'm always looking for a blanket in Miami in my home!! My Dojos should be happy in an avg 72-74. You may recall I had a Coffeetable tank, un-lit/unheated, that used to stay at about 72 F on a regular basis. I dismantled this tank when I had my disease outbreak. Few survivors left + returned a bunch to the LFS that I suspected to be sick. I can use this tank for the Dojos, but come to think of it, it is uncovered and they will most likely jump out so it may not be a good tank for them. Do you agree? It has no lid, my husband made it as a piece of art, it is a table with a moat. Approx 55- 75 G, but not deep. About 6-8 inches deep. Probably will have to be rescuing them from having jumped out all the time. That is if our cat doesn't get to them first! I was gonna upgrade my 10 for them to a 20L or 30L preferably and keep it cold just for my Dojos and get non-heat producing lights. Do they exist? The sand substrate is for them. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:01:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Tania, Aquarium Chillers can be quite expensive... well over $500.00 or more depending on the tank size and cooling requirements... which is why the DIY chiller is a commonly looked at option. \\Steve// Quite a while back, when I first started keeping goldfish indoors, in order to NOT have to run my central A/C all of the time, I looked into the DIY chiller and I thought of two other less expensive options since I didn't want a dorm fridge in my living room. One option was to buy one of those piezo-electric coolers (six-pack size on up depending on the space allowable under the tank, tank size, etc.) and then putting an air pump inside it or just having a long coil of tubing sitting in the cooler so it would constantly pump chilled air into the tank. These types of coolers will usually lower the temp inside the cooler to around 30-40 degrees lower than the ambient (external) temperature. At first I was thinking about just putting the air pump inside the cooler but air pumps put out heat so that would partially or fully offset the cooler's abilities. Most air pumps that I've owned have the air intake on the bottom of the pump so my other option was to drill a hole in the side of the cooler, near the bottom (where the cooler air would be) and then silicone the air pump to the cooler so it sucks air from the cooler. A hole would also have to be drilled in the top on the other end, to allow fresh air into the cooler. My other option did involve a smaller dorm fridge but still just running a long coil of airline tubing through it which would chill the air passing through it and then into the tank. This would eliminate the need for a pump and plumbing (and another possible water leak source ... and further because a water pump that would push water through a 1/4" airline tubing is hard to find and having the smaller diameter airline tubing would be preferred to give the most water contact with the cooling surface of the airline tube. I was going to have to experiment with both of these ideas since I couldn't find either one being done already. Have you ever seen either of those two ideas tried? Another inexpensive option is a small window A/C unit just for the room where the tank is kept.. costs about $100-$150... keep the room at 72F and you'll benefit from the cooling as well, without having to run your central air as much for the rest of the house. As part of my hurricane preparedness upgrading done after Katrina, I bought a nice sized generator and a room sized window A/C unit. I haven't had to use it long term yet but I did run them for two 5-6 hour periods when we lost power during Gustav this summer. God, it was so nice to have power and air conditioning! I even ran long extension cords to a couple of my neighbors so they could save their refrigerated stuff and run a light and fan... but they had to come to my place if they wanted A/C! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Yes, they do. They are called chillers and are a bit pricey. You can build your own, if you wish, with a small dorm refrigerator, some tools, tubing, a pump, and silicone. They are not quite as efficient, but they do work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 10:28:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:01:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31887	From: hank voss	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bubuci@... wrote: > Tania: You should have no trouble mixing the rainbows. The only time you may have trouble with boesemani is when they get full grown and then 99% of the time its the male(usually the dominate one)I had one large male that destroyed several other fish on me he hounded everyone in the tank but thats the exception though. Eat your guppies!!When small no, when adult possibly. When the males are courting their colors will intensify and the male will get a stripe on the top of his back from the dorsal to snout.But the colors dont change thatmuch. There are two color/strains around yellow and orangeish, The intensitity of the color is mainly with the strain of fish. They will school to a certain degree. Regards Hank ====================================== > Hank! > > Thanks so much! > > Great, so more questions then! ;) So the males get testy with eachother? The females or other fish? The will probably eat my guppies right? > > As for the color changes, I read that their yellow may turn orange + blue/steel to purple at certain times of day or when displaying to a male or female. If I get Millenium and Boesemani Rainbows,will they school? > > Thanks so much again > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "hank voss" <aatetras@...> > > Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:00:50 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Boesemani Rainbow > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bubuci@ wrote: > > > Tania: > I raised many M.boesemani over the years. Its basically a > peaceful fish but some males can get quite testy when they get > larger,they will get to 4-5 in.so you should give them a good sized > tank.They are an open water fish.They will eat anything.Their colors > do not change (day by day) if thats what you mean, they do intensify > as they mature. > Since they are anactive fish in groups I dont think the loach > will annoy them(if the tank is large enough).Very easy fish to > breed,but the fry are very small.Anything else about them please ask. > Regards Hank > -------------------------------------- > > Hey Gang, > > > > Here's another one for ya! Does anyone have experience with > Bosemani Rainbow Fish? I am thinking about getting some and would > love to hear more about them and what makes their colors change, what > they like to eat, etc. Are they peaceful, do they need hiding places? > Will a Dojo loach stress them out? I've read a few profiles, but > wanted to hear about personal experience. Thanks in advance. > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31888	From: N Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Angel Eggs Hatching

My two Angels laid eggs, for the 5th time in two months, and this time not only they proved to be a male and female (not two females) but also showed great parenting skills! I didn't put them alone in a tank because they were eating the eggs on the third day, but this time they garded them for 3 nights, and today I'm seeing tens of tiny tails fluttering. I'm still fascinated by the scene, it's my first time. I know they won't survive to be adults, because here I can't find any sort of baby food, Brine Shrimp, etc.. but I'm enjoying these few first hatching experiences. The strange thing is that the tails only started to emerge 10 hours ago, and now the wigglers are falling down from the surface. Both parents are catching the falling wigglers and desparatly trying to put them back. Is it normal for the fry to fall that quickly? I thought and read that they should remain "sticking" for 48 hours and then become free swimmers. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31889	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers

Fluorescent lighting does not put out heat... at least not from the bulbs directed towards the water (you can touch a fluorescent tube after it has been on for hours and it's still cool to the touch). There is a ballast, usually located on the top of the metal reflector and there are usually vents on the top of the fixture so the heat from the ballast easily dissipates into the room. You should get hubby to make a plexiglass top for the coffee table tank. Something that can be removed as needed (plexiglass is lightweight and safer than real glass for an coffee table aquarium) but keep it on most of the time to prevent accidents and/or excessive evaporation. I'm sure you've read that Dojo/Weather Loaches grow quite long... 9-10" so the bigger/longer the tank, the better. http://www.loaches.com/articles/weather-report and http://www.loaches.com/species-index/weather-loach-misgurnis-anguillicaudatu s BTW... hubby keeps the house cold so you'll have to snuggle up to him. He just needs to hide the blankets better. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Steve + Lenny! Wow! Thanks for your reply and instructions. It is for a Weather Loach so I have read they can do well in 74 F as opposed to a temp which is a Comfy for us 77 or 78 room temp. In consideration of the 500 price on a chiller and the extra large equipment for the DIY(my husband won't go for that) + extra a/c unit, I think if I just try to find some aquarium Lights that don't produce any heat in a tank(ideas?), plus the fact that my husband keeps the house freezing, they'll be ok. I'm always looking for a blanket in Miami in my home!! My Dojos should be happy in an avg 72-74. You may recall I had a Coffeetable tank, un-lit/unheated, that used to stay at about 72 F on a regular basis. I dismantled this tank when I had my disease outbreak. Few survivors left + returned a bunch to the LFS that I suspected to be sick. I can use this tank for the Dojos, but come to think of it, it is uncovered and they will most likely jump out so it may not be a good tank for them. Do you agree? It has no lid, my husband made it as a piece of art, it is a table with a moat. Approx 55- 75 G, but not deep. About 6-8 inches deep. Probably will have to be rescuing them from having jumped out all the time. That is if our cat doesn't get to them first! I was gonna upgrade my 10 for them to a 20L or 30L preferably and keep it cold just for my Dojos and get non-heat producing lights. Do they exist? The sand substrate is for them. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:01:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Tania, Aquarium Chillers can be quite expensive... well over $500.00 or more depending on the tank size and cooling requirements... which is why the DIY chiller is a commonly looked at option. \\Steve// Quite a while back, when I first started keeping goldfish indoors, in order to NOT have to run my central A/C all of the time, I looked into the DIY chiller and I thought of two other less expensive options since I didn't want a dorm fridge in my living room. One option was to buy one of those piezo-electric coolers (six-pack size on up depending on the space allowable under the tank, tank size, etc.) and then putting an air pump inside it or just having a long coil of tubing sitting in the cooler so it would constantly pump chilled air into the tank. These types of coolers will usually lower the temp inside the cooler to around 30-40 degrees lower than the ambient (external) temperature. At first I was thinking about just putting the air pump inside the cooler but air pumps put out heat so that would partially or fully offset the cooler's abilities. Most air pumps that I've owned have the air intake on the bottom of the pump so my other option was to drill a hole in the side of the cooler, near the bottom (where the cooler air would be) and then silicone the air pump to the cooler so it sucks air from the cooler. A hole would also have to be drilled in the top on the other end, to allow fresh air into the cooler. My other option did involve a smaller dorm fridge but still just running a long coil of airline tubing through it which would chill the air passing through it and then into the tank. This would eliminate the need for a pump and plumbing (and another possible water leak source ... and further because a water pump that would push water through a 1/4" airline tubing is hard to find and having the smaller diameter airline tubing would be preferred to give the most water contact with the cooling surface of the airline tube. I was going to have to experiment with both of these ideas since I couldn't find either one being done already. Have you ever seen either of those two ideas tried? Another inexpensive option is a small window A/C unit just for the room where the tank is kept.. costs about $100-$150... keep the room at 72F and you'll benefit from the cooling as well, without having to run your central air as much for the rest of the house. As part of my hurricane preparedness upgrading done after Katrina, I bought a nice sized generator and a room sized window A/C unit. I haven't had to use it long term yet but I did run them for two 5-6 hour periods when we lost power during Gustav this summer. God, it was so nice to have power and air conditioning! I even ran long extension cords to a couple of my neighbors so they could save their refrigerated stuff and run a light and fan... but they had to come to my place if they wanted A/C! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Yes, they do. They are called chillers and are a bit pricey. You can build your own, if you wish, with a small dorm refrigerator, some tools, tubing, a pump, and silicone. They are not quite as efficient, but they do work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 10:28:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:01:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 2:01:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 2:46:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31890	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Eggs Hatching

Read over this thread. The first post is from someone who was in a similar position as you are with being a first time angelfish parent but they did have access to brine shrimp. http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/angel.html Don't they sell "Sea Monkeys" over there? I thought they were every where. Does your local fish store or pet store sell LiquiFry or any other fry food? They should sell brine shrimp kits too but it would seem the would have at least one of the common fry foods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Angel Eggs Hatching My two Angels laid eggs, for the 5th time in two months, and this time not only they proved to be a male and female (not two females) but also showed great parenting skills! I didn't put them alone in a tank because they were eating the eggs on the third day, but this time they garded them for 3 nights, and today I'm seeing tens of tiny tails fluttering. I'm still fascinated by the scene, it's my first time. I know they won't survive to be adults, because here I can't find any sort of baby food, Brine Shrimp, etc.. but I'm enjoying these few first hatching experiences. The strange thing is that the tails only started to emerge 10 hours ago, and now the wigglers are falling down from the surface. Both parents are catching the falling wigglers and desparatly trying to put them back. Is it normal for the fry to fall that quickly? I thought and read that they should remain "sticking" for 48 hours and then become free swimmers. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 2:41:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 3:04:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31891	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Eggs Hatching

My memory is not the best, I seem to recall Noura is in the Middle East. I could hazard a guess to the exact location but have high chance of being wrong. I seem to recall she does not having access to all the items we have in North America and Europe. If you can grind up whatever you are using for food perhaps that would help? I was trying to feed some Malagasy Cichlid fry several times this year by grinding up different kinds of pellet or flakes and then making a paste out of it with tank water, NOT tap water. Then using a syringe or turkey baster to gently spread the food paste over the fry so that it would fall among them. Worked well for about a week at a time until the other fish in the tank got the fry. Perhaps mail order if the cost is not too high? Brine shrimp eggs? Decapped for direct feeding? Not as good as live brine of course. Liquifry as Lenny suggested? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 1:04 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angel Eggs Hatching Read over this thread. The first post is from someone who was in a similar position as you are with being a first time angelfish parent but they did have access to brine shrimp. http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/angel.html Don't they sell "Sea Monkeys" over there? I thought they were every where. Does your local fish store or pet store sell LiquiFry or any other fry food? They should sell brine shrimp kits too but it would seem the would have at least one of the common fry foods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Angel Eggs Hatching My two Angels laid eggs, for the 5th time in two months, and this time not only they proved to be a male and female (not two females) but also showed great parenting skills! I didn't put them alone in a tank because they were eating the eggs on the third day, but this time they garded them for 3 nights, and today I'm seeing tens of tiny tails fluttering. I'm still fascinated by the scene, it's my first time. I know they won't survive to be adults, because here I can't find any sort of baby food, Brine Shrimp, etc.. but I'm enjoying these few first hatching experiences. The strange thing is that the tails only started to emerge 10 hours ago, and now the wigglers are falling down from the surface. Both parents are catching the falling wigglers and desparatly trying to put them back. Is it normal for the fry to fall that quickly? I thought and read that they should remain "sticking" for 48 hours and then become free swimmers. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 2:41:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 3:04:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31892	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substrates - now Chillers

Lenny! Lol! Great idea! Yep that Coffee table tank would be great, but the problem is hubby had originally made it as a Labyrinth fish tank. I ended up running 2 filters in there anyway, however, it was dangerous as I have a toddler who loves sticking his hand in there and also there were live electrical wires coming out to run the filters. Not a good scenario in a house with small children. The table needed to be made. With filters built in to the center part and an electrician needed to put in an electric outlet just beneath the table on the floor to make it safer(cords were tripping accidents waiting to happen), in addition to covering the tank with a custom lid. These are the reasons why I did not refill it yet. I am sure installing an electric power outlet under our marble floor would be pricey and may mean tearing it up and possibly having to re-floor. That would be out of the question for us financially. Shame though? Wish the table could somehow work. Maybe if we just got those wire covers that you see like thick plastic speed bumps for hiding wires? And Maybe if Hubby made a hole in the middle of the bottom of the table to run the cords up, left the center piece open, so that the power came from the center of the table, rather then cords running from the wall, over the outside edge and into the table? As is, its a hazard for electric shock, I just won't do it. If I can get him, in his very busy sched. to do these modifications, we're good to go! Otherwise, It will probably be easier and cheaper for me to just get a long tank. :( Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 02:46:08 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Fluorescent lighting does not put out heat... at least not from the bulbs directed towards the water (you can touch a fluorescent tube after it has been on for hours and it's still cool to the touch). There is a ballast, usually located on the top of the metal reflector and there are usually vents on the top of the fixture so the heat from the ballast easily dissipates into the room. You should get hubby to make a plexiglass top for the coffee table tank. Something that can be removed as needed (plexiglass is lightweight and safer than real glass for an coffee table aquarium) but keep it on most of the time to prevent accidents and/or excessive evaporation. I'm sure you've read that Dojo/Weather Loaches grow quite long... 9-10" so the bigger/longer the tank, the better. http://www.loaches.com/articles/weather-report and http://www.loaches.com/species-index/weather-loach-misgurnis-anguillicaudatu s BTW... hubby keeps the house cold so you'll have to snuggle up to him. He just needs to hide the blankets better. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Steve + Lenny! Wow! Thanks for your reply and instructions. It is for a Weather Loach so I have read they can do well in 74 F as opposed to a temp which is a Comfy for us 77 or 78 room temp. In consideration of the 500 price on a chiller and the extra large equipment for the DIY(my husband won't go for that) + extra a/c unit, I think if I just try to find some aquarium Lights that don't produce any heat in a tank(ideas?), plus the fact that my husband keeps the house freezing, they'll be ok. I'm always looking for a blanket in Miami in my home!! My Dojos should be happy in an avg 72-74. You may recall I had a Coffeetable tank, un-lit/unheated, that used to stay at about 72 F on a regular basis. I dismantled this tank when I had my disease outbreak. Few survivors left + returned a bunch to the LFS that I suspected to be sick. I can use this tank for the Dojos, but come to think of it, it is uncovered and they will most likely jump out so it may not be a good tank for them. Do you agree? It has no lid, my husband made it as a piece of art, it is a table with a moat. Approx 55- 75 G, but not deep. About 6-8 inches deep. Probably will have to be rescuing them from having jumped out all the time. That is if our cat doesn't get to them first! I was gonna upgrade my 10 for them to a 20L or 30L preferably and keep it cold just for my Dojos and get non-heat producing lights. Do they exist? The sand substrate is for them. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:01:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Tania, Aquarium Chillers can be quite expensive... well over $500.00 or more depending on the tank size and cooling requirements... which is why the DIY chiller is a commonly looked at option. \\Steve// Quite a while back, when I first started keeping goldfish indoors, in order to NOT have to run my central A/C all of the time, I looked into the DIY chiller and I thought of two other less expensive options since I didn't want a dorm fridge in my living room. One option was to buy one of those piezo-electric coolers (six-pack size on up depending on the space allowable under the tank, tank size, etc.) and then putting an air pump inside it or just having a long coil of tubing sitting in the cooler so it would constantly pump chilled air into the tank. These types of coolers will usually lower the temp inside the cooler to around 30-40 degrees lower than the ambient (external) temperature. At first I was thinking about just putting the air pump inside the cooler but air pumps put out heat so that would partially or fully offset the cooler's abilities. Most air pumps that I've owned have the air intake on the bottom of the pump so my other option was to drill a hole in the side of the cooler, near the bottom (where the cooler air would be) and then silicone the air pump to the cooler so it sucks air from the cooler. A hole would also have to be drilled in the top on the other end, to allow fresh air into the cooler. My other option did involve a smaller dorm fridge but still just running a long coil of airline tubing through it which would chill the air passing through it and then into the tank. This would eliminate the need for a pump and plumbing (and another possible water leak source ... and further because a water pump that would push water through a 1/4" airline tubing is hard to find and having the smaller diameter airline tubing would be preferred to give the most water contact with the cooling surface of the airline tube. I was going to have to experiment with both of these ideas since I couldn't find either one being done already. Have you ever seen either of those two ideas tried? Another inexpensive option is a small window A/C unit just for the room where the tank is kept.. costs about $100-$150... keep the room at 72F and you'll benefit from the cooling as well, without having to run your central air as much for the rest of the house. As part of my hurricane preparedness upgrading done after Katrina, I bought a nice sized generator and a room sized window A/C unit. I haven't had to use it long term yet but I did run them for two 5-6 hour periods when we lost power during Gustav this summer. God, it was so nice to have power and air conditioning! I even ran long extension cords to a couple of my neighbors so they could save their refrigerated stuff and run a light and fan... but they had to come to my place if they wanted A/C! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Yes, they do. They are called chillers and are a bit pricey. You can build your own, if you wish, with a small dorm refrigerator, some tools, tubing, a pump, and silicone. They are not quite as efficient, but they do work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 10:28:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:01:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 2:01:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 2:46:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31893	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)

Here is the link to the website where I read about the dropsy http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy They say 82-86degrees. I didn't set it that high, but he seems to like it more with it slightly warmer. So maybe I will put him back in the tank. I can put the rest of the powder in there, and the heater. He seems to be doing better, is moving around a little, and his tail is more perky. The person from the pet store also sent something called Lifeguard all in one treatment. But I haven't used it yet. It is a non-antibiotic agent, it says. But requires turning off the filter for the five days of treatment. thanks Joanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31894	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:14:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 7:46:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 8:25:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 9:51:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31895	From: N Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Clown Loach

Hi, Can Clown Loaches eat Malaysean Trumpet Snails? Their shell looks really hard! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31896	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

No. You are correct, the shells are too hard. The clown loaches may be able to eat the smallest of them but as well as the MTS snails hide it will be a losing battle. Are you having issue with too many of them? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: N Taweel <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 2:05 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Hi, Can Clown Loaches eat Malaysean Trumpet Snails? Their shell looks really hard! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31897	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers

I've seen the refrigerator type chiller. You use a larger diameter tubing than airline tubing--like the size used on the canister filters--3/4" or better. The problem, and hence inefficiency I mentioned is the tubing itself acting as an insulator. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Tania, Aquarium Chillers can be quite expensive... well over $500.00 or more depending on the tank size and cooling requirements... which is why the DIY chiller is a commonly looked at option. \\Steve// Quite a while back, when I first started keeping goldfish indoors, in order to NOT have to run my central A/C all of the time, I looked into the DIY chiller and I thought of two other less expensive options since I didn't want a dorm fridge in my living room. One option was to buy one of those piezo-electric coolers (six-pack size on up depending on the space allowable under the tank, tank size, etc.) and then putting an air pump inside it or just having a long coil of tubing sitting in the cooler so it would constantly pump chilled air into the tank. These types of coolers will usually lower the temp inside the cooler to around 30-40 degrees lower than the ambient (external) temperature. At first I was thinking about just putting the air pump inside the cooler but air pumps put out heat so that would partially or fully offset the cooler's abilities. Most air pumps that I've owned have the air intake on the bottom of the pump so my other option was to drill a hole in the side of the cooler, near the bottom (where the cooler air would be) and then silicone the air pump to the cooler so it sucks air from the cooler. A hole would also have to be drilled in the top on the other end, to allow fresh air into the cooler. My other option did involve a smaller dorm fridge but still just running a long coil of airline tubing through it which would chill the air passing through it and then into the tank. This would eliminate the need for a pump and plumbing (and another possible water leak source ... and further because a water pump that would push water through a 1/4" airline tubing is hard to find and having the smaller diameter airline tubing would be preferred to give the most water contact with the cooling surface of the airline tube. I was going to have to experiment with both of these ideas since I couldn't find either one being done already. Have you ever seen either of those two ideas tried? Another inexpensive option is a small window A/C unit just for the room where the tank is kept.. costs about $100-$150... keep the room at 72F and you'll benefit from the cooling as well, without having to run your central air as much for the rest of the house. As part of my hurricane preparedness upgrading done after Katrina, I bought a nice sized generator and a room sized window A/C unit. I haven't had to use it long term yet but I did run them for two 5-6 hour periods when we lost power during Gustav this summer. God, it was so nice to have power and air conditioning! I even ran long extension cords to a couple of my neighbors so they could save their refrigerated stuff and run a light and fan... but they had to come to my place if they wanted A/C! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Yes, they do. They are called chillers and are a bit pricey. You can build your own, if you wish, with a small dorm refrigerator, some tools, tubing, a pump, and silicone. They are not quite as efficient, but they do work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31898	From: Noura Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

I have too many of them, but they're not making any problems (except for making my husband feel disgusted if he looked to the tank at night time, he hates all sorts of snails!). I just noticed that my clown loaches are digging less in the gravel, and getting more excited when I feed the fish in the community tank. And I don't have any live plants anymore. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > No. You are correct, the shells are too hard. The clown loaches may be able to eat the smallest of them but as well as the MTS snails hide it will be a losing battle. > > Are you having issue with too many of them? > > -Mike >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31899	From: N Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Betta Bachelor Nesting!

He's a gorgeous purple-blue male living in a small bowl (1.5 G), with an airstone ( I run it occasionally if I didn't change the water for two days or so). Every 3 or 4 days I find him building a bubble nest! Does it indicate to something? should I do something for him? He was in the 20 G community 3 months later, but the Angels bothered him and nipped off his fins. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31900	From: N Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Eggs Hatching

Unfortunatly, non of the fry foods you mentioned are available :( Of course I didn't mean to put the Shrimp eggs as food, but hatching them first. Anyway, they're not available either. Yes Mike, I live in Syria. I'm trying to find aquarists who tried breeding egg layers before to see what experience they have about feeding. Meanwhile, I'll try to separate those new babies into a bucket and feed them the 'paste' you mentioned. I have flakes (consist of both green and meaty food), and I have sinking pelets (Sardine). which one would be best? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31901	From: greychildren	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

WOW i did not know the list was so huge.. I guess I'm getting a net and heading to my back yard canal( I don't know what surprise i will find? why pay for them if you can find them in your local canal and help remove them from the wild sense there not native species). Thanks for the info Lenny your the man, I'M going to try to contact them about the snake heads see what they say. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive > listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page > where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. > > http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then > brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your > State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the > site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana > has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). > Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is > good for a change! LOL > > I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have > done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) > > Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of > non-native fish. > > On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other > links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, > "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page > on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then > the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link > http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much > longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the > bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. > > WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another > good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common > tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" > (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) > http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 > > And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If > you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. > LOL > http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 > > Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to > this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. > http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was > last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as > well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so > maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that > page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. > > Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste > so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I > invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does > effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... > which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running > everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). > LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to > be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was > woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and > link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be > too simple for a government program. > > \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I > know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf > States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but > the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should > I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is > your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly > pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that > doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, > trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this > week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time > to research this. > > Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not > too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual > information. > > If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry > about at the moment. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully > inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Danios aren't listed either. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single > Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito > control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, > particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native > to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen > Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your > area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. > > You'll see them listed on this page... > http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. > http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" > http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is > and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT > have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay > commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" > > Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the > southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, > according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely > released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but > I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have > been found in other local waters in southern States. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first > I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish > you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, > and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's > frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? > That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition > to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive > species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods > affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, > it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would > compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31902	From: greychildren	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish)

yea Din't i Lenny lol....Why not feed it a hamster. notice the box. its publix brand the food chain only fond in Florida http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKUdvoCCFEg --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oops... I'm so used to getting those kinds of "pointed" questions from Dora. > Sorry (to both parties) to mistake you for Dora... or Dora for you! LOL > > So, presuming you are anti-hunting (based on your line of questioning)... > are you also a vegetarian? Is it more fair to the animals being eaten to be > hunted on an individual basis or raised on a farm to go to slaughter? > Should anyone who is anti-hunting also be anti-meat in general since most > meat food items must be killed first? ... except for them college kids and > other whackos that do the goldfish swallowing thing... LOL > > And for vegetarians... shouldn't plants, fruit and vegetables also have > rights? Should they just be chopped down, viciously yanked from their > branch or pulled from the ground and then be slaughtered and eaten? They > don't even have a chance to get away from you vicious vegetarians like an > animal does from a hunter. LOL (I'm only saying this to illustrate that any > this-right or that-right type group could make an argument for their cause > du jour.) > > Dang it Greychildren... look what you started! Just kidding. ;-) I like > informative and intelligent discussion even when it might veer off-topic a > little... or a lot. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) > > Wait, that was Donna (DJRansome) not Dora. I apologize, I thought you had > mentioned it in a post long ago. > > I have many hunters to whom I am related, and we have this friendly debate > repeatedly. I don't see how eating what they kill makes it any different, > unless they do so out of economic necessity and find the process distasteful > but necessary. You are absolutely right of course, that hunting in the woods > is very different from putting prey in a closed container. So enough said > since this is a fish forum.sorry for raising the issue. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) > > Why would you imply that I'm a hunter? Dora, you really know nothing about > me, except maybe for what I intentionally put out on the internet about me, > but if you ever decided to research anything first, you could simply Google > my name and find out so much about me (over 2,000 hits the last time I > checked). However, you won't find anything about me being a hunter... > except for when I hunted down people for a living. > > Further, if you knew anything about the typical "human hunters", you'll know > that the overwhelming majority of them (in the USA) eat what they kill and > do not just kill for the thrill... although criminals certainly may be the > exception. Yes, there are exceptions where someone will kill something > merely for the trophy kill but that is not the typical hunter. Besides, > trophy hunting is mostly illegal in the USA although there are exceptions > mostly in the sport fishing industry. > > The other thing is, once again (if you would read first), there's an > ENORMOUS difference between a human going out into the wild, to track and > hunt down a wild animal (whether it be a hunter or fisherman) for food, > versus putting a defenseless pet-type animal into a closed container where > it has no chance of escape. There are also laws against "baiting" in most > areas, although it is done in many areas, where the hunter, trying to get an > edge on the wild animal, will bait a certain area to draw in the subject of > the hunt. > > I also noted the exception for "natural" killings that took place > unintentionally with adult fish eating their fry or the eggs or fry from > other fish is a natural thing and usually not done intentionally by the fish > keeper. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) > > I too worry about people who experience pleasure in watching a predator > capture and devour live prey. But Lenny, aren't you a hunter? I guess I tend > to group human hunters into that category. If the thrill of hunting was just > being in the woods and tracking the animals, wouldn't the hunter use a > camera? OK.that'll start some controversy, LOL! > > Regarding feeding live animals to pets, my two cents is this: some can wean > their pets to non-live foods. I believe there are frozen mice available for > snakes. Some do, some don't either because of the pleasure aspect or they > think the live foods are better for their pet. > > I prefer to avoid pets that truly require live foods, both due to > displeasure (squeamishness, gross-ness, whatever) and inconvenience. On the > other hand, there was a boy scout merit badge my son worked on where we > bought live crickets for a skink we captured in the yard and kept for a > month. It was gross buying a writhing mass of crickets, but cool to watch > the skink snap them up. > > I do have pets that eat their relatives, however. African cichlids produce > copius amounts of fry and if you let the mothers spit the fry in the > community tank, they are usually eaten by the adults. This does not give me > pleasure, but instead it's sort of a "Awwww" reaction. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeder Fish Video ??? (was Re: Missing fish) > > After watching that video, I'm curious about what others think. > > My initial reaction is "It's a shame" but then I also understand that when > keeping carnivorous fish, or for folks with pet snakes (when feeding live > mice) or any other pet that is often fed live foods, I realize it's part of > their "natural" diet... but why can't these folks wean their pets onto > processed foods or live foods that aren't considered domestic pets by > others? I'm not sure how many folks consider little white mice as pets but I > know there are many that do. I also see the "Feeder Goldfish" tanks at my > local PetsMart and LFS so I realize there must be many fish keepers that buy > these "feeder goldfish" to feed to their carnivorous fish.. or possibly > other pets like turtles, etc. > > For comparison purposes, would it be OK for a dog owner to intentionally > feed little kittens to their dogs? Or a cat owner to intentionally feed baby > hamsters to their cats? Is there a difference between these two analogies > when compared to intentionally feeding baby goldfish or guppies to larger > carnivorous fish? But the dog and cat analogies would lead to animal cruelty > criminal charges against the pet owner doing those acts, at least in the > USA. > > Now, I'm not talking about the "natural" fights that may take place between > aggressive fish in a tank stocked with aggressive fish, when it's not > intentionally done by the fish keeper, I'm talking about intentionally > subjecting a defenseless goldfish (or other pet) to almost certain mauling > and death by a predator-type pet. > > And then... the seeming "pleasure" that these "Monster Fish" keepers (I only > use that term since this video poster has that term on the tank) seem to > have in watching their fish maul and devour a smaller defenseless fish... is > that normal to be thrilled by such things? Is it really not much different > than the likes of a Michael Vick, now convicted and serving time for dog > fighting? Judging from the comments left on the bottom of that YouTube, it > seems I'm not the only one to have this as my first thought. > > Down here in Louisiana, they recently banned cock fighting and although I've > never been to a cock fight (or dog fight for that matter), I don't consider > cock fighting or bull fighting in the same league as dog fighting since > roosters and bulls aren't typical domestic pets... although I realize there > are probably exceptions in farming areas... well at least for some kid > having a pet chicken or rooster or cow. I'm not sure how many kids might > have a pet bull. And I'm sure others might try to analogize deer hunting by > humans to being similar but there's a big difference when something is all > being done out in the wild versus being contained in a very small area. I > don't think many hunters would be "thrilled" to shoot Bambi while housed in > a little pen outside the barn... and anyone who is "thrilled" to do this > type of action would likely be charged with criminal animal cruelty charges > anyhow. > > I know many of us eat beef but even though I eat it, I am not "thrilled" to > watch a cow being slaughtered and even with cows not being a typical pet, I > still don't go out and buy a cow and bring it home to slaughter it. When I > buy my beef, it's usually already butchered and processed... and quite > often, already cooked! MMMMMM... getting hungry now! LOL > > Anyhow, since it's debating season over here in the USA, and we can't talk > politics, I thought I'd open this subject up for a little discussing/debate. > > And just to set the record straight, I'm not a member of PETA or a member of > any other animal-rights or environmentalist groups and my political > persuasions are to the right of Attila The Hun so I'm not a typical bleeding > heart... but I do still have one! > > Even as a kid, I always had pets but never had pets that I ever fed other > pets to, so I'm not sure if I'm the typical or atypical person when viewing > this subject matter. > > So... what do others think? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to > articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish > > I'm a Florida native and i can tell you leaving ne'er fresh water canals. I > seen Oscars,Plecos, Pick up Bass, Fresh water eel's, Parana's, and the dread > full snake head fish this fish will eat everything u name it, it will eat it > also it can survive outside of water for some time.now it's big problem down > here in south Florida. > > For the ones with love of gold fish don't watch this video > > http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_9TP4cxEc > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:42:44 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31903	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

In a message dated 10/27/2008 12:21:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: God, it's so simple. No research involved... just follow the simple directions. Lenny Vasbinder Please Lenny, don't have a heart attack over this! Breathe, breathe! Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31904	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction

Hi Donna, Good to hear (directly) from you. The show and auction went well, as it always does; too bad you had to miss it. Lots of Rift Lake Cichlids in the auction, if you would have needed something. Lots of other bags of auction fish as well -- a large variety of stuff. Don't know how many bags in all, but there were a good number of them, keeping us there until after 6PM last night. One thing I'd like to mention, as I know you have this fish, is that there must have been nearly a million bags of Yellow Labs available at the auction. Either everyone is breeding them, or one person is really pumping them out. Would have replied here last night but I was too beat from a few real long days, not to mention that I had show fish and auction fish to put away when I got home. The show could have been larger (I've seen larger in the past), but all-in-all, there was a good representation of fish in all classes. A highlight of the show (at least for me) was that the first president of the NJAS showed up and I got the chance to meet him and to have a short chat with him. The club was founded in April 1954 (not 1953 as everyone there insists on believing), so its 54 years old this year. It was an honor meeting the first president, Joseph (Joe) F. Epper, who is now 82 years old -- he had to be 28 when the club first started. In answer to one of my questions to him, he still has fish (3 Angelfish). I guess keeping fish keeps you going, as he looked well; I had never met him before this but was glad I finally did so. Undoubtedly, Hank will remember him, being an original member of the club back then. You missed a good show, but I know if you could have made it, you would have. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Ray, how was it? I was not able to attend. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31905	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substrates - now Chillers

Well, even with a labyrinth tank (Bettas, Gouramis, etc.), I would still recommend filtration although you could likely get by with a "Walstad Natural Tank" type set up with lots of live plants, etc. to help handle the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate issues. But even with that set up, I'd still have a cover on the tank to keep the fish from jumping and to help prevent spills into the tank and evaporation out of it. You would still need a heater since based on your home temps, it would be too cool for labyrinth fish which are tropical fish. Maybe you could go with a natural planted tank and go with zebra danios (maybe even the glofish for added visibility of the fish), Whitecloud Mountain Minnows, Guppies, etc., which prefer moving water but all seem to be highly adaptable in the wild and they wouldn't need a heater... it's something to consider. I just recently added a new article on my blog about "Planted Tank - So you want a planted tank" and this has the links to the natural planted tank and low-light plants that you would need. You could also add a fluorescent light fixture on the ceiling above the tank or some recessed lighting with either fluorescent bulbs or halogen to shine down on the tank to give the plants more lighting. This option would save you from having to have any kind of wiring, etc. going to the coffee table tank, would provide a natural heavily planted tank and fish without power going to it and very little tank maintenance... but it would still need a cover! The reason I said very little tank maintenance is that the Walstad Natural Planted tank can go up to six months between PWC's although I would still dose the tank with Baking Soda and one of the fish supplement products to keep up the GH level and trace elements level when topping off the tank. I've never done this but I've read up on it extensively and believe it would work out and had planned to do a similar tank set up before Katrina hit and change my housing so I do not have as much room any longer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substrates - now Chillers Lenny! Lol! Great idea! Yep that Coffee table tank would be great, but the problem is hubby had originally made it as a Labyrinth fish tank. I ended up running 2 filters in there anyway, however, it was dangerous as I have a toddler who loves sticking his hand in there and also there were live electrical wires coming out to run the filters. Not a good scenario in a house with small children. The table needed to be made. With filters built in to the center part and an electrician needed to put in an electric outlet just beneath the table on the floor to make it safer(cords were tripping accidents waiting to happen), in addition to covering the tank with a custom lid. These are the reasons why I did not refill it yet. I am sure installing an electric power outlet under our marble floor would be pricey and may mean tearing it up and possibly having to re-floor. That would be out of the question for us financially. Shame though? Wish the table could somehow work. Maybe if we just got those wire covers that you see like thick plastic speed bumps for hiding wires? And Maybe if Hubby made a hole in the middle of the bottom of the table to run the cords up, left the center piece open, so that the power came from the center of the table, rather then cords running from the wall, over the outside edge and into the table? As is, its a hazard for electric shock, I just won't do it. If I can get him, in his very busy sched. to do these modifications, we're good to go! Otherwise, It will probably be easier and cheaper for me to just get a long tank. :( Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 02:46:08 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Fluorescent lighting does not put out heat... at least not from the bulbs directed towards the water (you can touch a fluorescent tube after it has been on for hours and it's still cool to the touch). There is a ballast, usually located on the top of the metal reflector and there are usually vents on the top of the fixture so the heat from the ballast easily dissipates into the room. You should get hubby to make a plexiglass top for the coffee table tank. Something that can be removed as needed (plexiglass is lightweight and safer than real glass for an coffee table aquarium) but keep it on most of the time to prevent accidents and/or excessive evaporation. I'm sure you've read that Dojo/Weather Loaches grow quite long... 9-10" so the bigger/longer the tank, the better. http://www.loaches.com/articles/weather-report <http://www.loaches.com/articles/weather-report> and http://www.loaches.com/species-index/weather-loach-misgurnis-anguillicaudatu <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/weather-loach-misgurnis-anguillicaudat u> s BTW... hubby keeps the house cold so you'll have to snuggle up to him. He just needs to hide the blankets better. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Steve + Lenny! Wow! Thanks for your reply and instructions. It is for a Weather Loach so I have read they can do well in 74 F as opposed to a temp which is a Comfy for us 77 or 78 room temp. In consideration of the 500 price on a chiller and the extra large equipment for the DIY(my husband won't go for that) + extra a/c unit, I think if I just try to find some aquarium Lights that don't produce any heat in a tank(ideas?), plus the fact that my husband keeps the house freezing, they'll be ok. I'm always looking for a blanket in Miami in my home!! My Dojos should be happy in an avg 72-74. You may recall I had a Coffeetable tank, un-lit/unheated, that used to stay at about 72 F on a regular basis. I dismantled this tank when I had my disease outbreak. Few survivors left + returned a bunch to the LFS that I suspected to be sick. I can use this tank for the Dojos, but come to think of it, it is uncovered and they will most likely jump out so it may not be a good tank for them. Do you agree? It has no lid, my husband made it as a piece of art, it is a table with a moat. Approx 55- 75 G, but not deep. About 6-8 inches deep. Probably will have to be rescuing them from having jumped out all the time. That is if our cat doesn't get to them first! I was gonna upgrade my 10 for them to a 20L or 30L preferably and keep it cold just for my Dojos and get non-heat producing lights. Do they exist? The sand substrate is for them. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:01:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Tania, Aquarium Chillers can be quite expensive... well over $500.00 or more depending on the tank size and cooling requirements... which is why the DIY chiller is a commonly looked at option. \\Steve// Quite a while back, when I first started keeping goldfish indoors, in order to NOT have to run my central A/C all of the time, I looked into the DIY chiller and I thought of two other less expensive options since I didn't want a dorm fridge in my living room. One option was to buy one of those piezo-electric coolers (six-pack size on up depending on the space allowable under the tank, tank size, etc.) and then putting an air pump inside it or just having a long coil of tubing sitting in the cooler so it would constantly pump chilled air into the tank. These types of coolers will usually lower the temp inside the cooler to around 30-40 degrees lower than the ambient (external) temperature. At first I was thinking about just putting the air pump inside the cooler but air pumps put out heat so that would partially or fully offset the cooler's abilities. Most air pumps that I've owned have the air intake on the bottom of the pump so my other option was to drill a hole in the side of the cooler, near the bottom (where the cooler air would be) and then silicone the air pump to the cooler so it sucks air from the cooler. A hole would also have to be drilled in the top on the other end, to allow fresh air into the cooler. My other option did involve a smaller dorm fridge but still just running a long coil of airline tubing through it which would chill the air passing through it and then into the tank. This would eliminate the need for a pump and plumbing (and another possible water leak source ... and further because a water pump that would push water through a 1/4" airline tubing is hard to find and having the smaller diameter airline tubing would be preferred to give the most water contact with the cooling surface of the airline tube. I was going to have to experiment with both of these ideas since I couldn't find either one being done already. Have you ever seen either of those two ideas tried? Another inexpensive option is a small window A/C unit just for the room where the tank is kept.. costs about $100-$150... keep the room at 72F and you'll benefit from the cooling as well, without having to run your central air as much for the rest of the house. As part of my hurricane preparedness upgrading done after Katrina, I bought a nice sized generator and a room sized window A/C unit. I haven't had to use it long term yet but I did run them for two 5-6 hour periods when we lost power during Gustav this summer. God, it was so nice to have power and air conditioning! I even ran long extension cords to a couple of my neighbors so they could save their refrigerated stuff and run a light and fan... but they had to come to my place if they wanted A/C! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Yes, they do. They are called chillers and are a bit pricey. You can build your own, if you wish, with a small dorm refrigerator, some tools, tubing, a pump, and silicone. They are not quite as efficient, but they do work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 9:40:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31906	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)

OK. That site has some of the outdated info about treating dropsy but touches on some of the current info also... but there are still many that have reported some success using the epsom salt treatment method... but it seems that the best method for success is using an injection of antibiotics and the second best is treating the tank with a broad spectrum antibiotic and feeding the fish medicated foods if they are still eating. The reason that person talked about turning off the filter for five days was that the medicine would likely kill off the nitrifying bacteria in the filter... but turning it off for five days would also kill off all of the nitrifying bacteria anyhow, so I have never understood that kind of advice. Their other reasoning might be that they wouldn't want the carbon in the filter to remove the meds but you should always remove the carbon from a filter system when treating with meds anyhow so you could still keep the filter running. I'm not sure what their reason(s) were for that advice. Try to remember to always ask "Why?" when getting advice from any source. If they can't give a logical/reasonable answer, they may not be a good source of info. Is it the Jungle Brand Lifeguard medicine? http://www.aquariumguys.com/jungle-lifeguard-medication-6pk.html or http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+14981 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+14981&pc atid=14981> &pcatid=14981 From reading the info on those pages, Lifeguard is an external treatment only so I'm not sure it would help at all with Dropsy but maybe he was thinking of this as a treatment for whatever was causing the sloughing of the excess slime coat. You would have to ask the "Why?". Since you are going with the Maracyn 1 & 2 broad spectrum antibiotic, I would only use that and the table salt for now. Too many meds, or the wrong meds, can be just as rough on the fish as what you might be treating. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail) Here is the link to the website where I read about the dropsy http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy> They say 82-86degrees. I didn't set it that high, but he seems to like it more with it slightly warmer. So maybe I will put him back in the tank. I can put the rest of the powder in there, and the heater. He seems to be doing better, is moving around a little, and his tail is more perky. The person from the pet store also sent something called Lifeguard all in one treatment. But I haven't used it yet. It is a non-antibiotic agent, it says. But requires turning off the filter for the five days of treatment. thanks Joanna _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 9:53:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 9:59:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31908	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

They have been known to do it. Loaches do not always crunch the shells but rather suck the snail out of the shell. This is why some trap-door snails have had some success in living with loaches. MTS do not have trap doors so eventually the loaches would have some success. Remember that Clown Loaches get REALLY BIG (over 12" and even over 16") and need to be kept in shoals of three or more (five or more is better) so a BIG tank is needed... 6' long, 100G+. What size tank were you planning? MTS snails are not prolific breeders like some other snails so if you have a problem with a lot of MTS, it means you have too much detritus in your substrate and need to start vacuuming your gravel better. Personally, I like MTS in my tanks as they are a good little clean up crew and do not breed as fast so they are a good bellwether to "remind" you that you might be overfeeding or under cleaning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Hi, Can Clown Loaches eat Malaysean Trumpet Snails? Their shell looks really hard! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 10:04:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31909	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Brown_Snails.html (START SNIP) There are several ways to keep snails in check: . The "predator" method. Several species of fish just love snails, for breakfast that is. The most common snail eater is the attractive Clown Loach, Botia macracanthus. The Clown Loach will grab the unprotected soft part of the snail and literally suck the poor gastropod out of the shell. If you don't mind me saying, this can be quite entertaining. In the marine tank, Pufferfish are good snail eaters and will crunch the shell of the snail and eat the soft parts. In fact, some people grow snails specifically to feed to their Clown Loaches and Pufferfishes. I have to admit that my Red Ramshorns live side by side with a healthy Clown Loach. Perhaps I overfeed him. (END SNIP) Mike, I've never kept them so I can't attest to any personal or direct knowledge but every forum thread, article, etc., that I've read over the years agrees with the above SNIP. I guess they could eat them entirely if they are the softer shelled snails and small enough. Noura, The best way to control snails is to eliminate the reasons for their proliferation in the first place. Adding more bioload to a tank (and if I recall, you are already heavy with bioload) is not the solution to a snail problem. You can try things like a slice of cucumber left overnight and removed with any snails on it in the morning, and other natural traps to get rid of excessive snails but if you don't correct the reason for their over breeding in the first place, they will simply come back. There are other smaller species of botia like the Zebra Loach or Pakistani Loach that would be better suited for a smaller tank and lesser bioload... but eliminating the cause of the snails still needs to be done. Excess snails means not enough tank maintenance and gravel cleaning is being done. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach No. You are correct, the shells are too hard. The clown loaches may be able to eat the smallest of them but as well as the MTS snails hide it will be a losing battle. Are you having issue with too many of them? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: N Taweel <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 2:05 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Hi, Can Clown Loaches eat Malaysean Trumpet Snails? Their shell looks really hard! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 10:16:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers

Yeah. That's why I also thought of pumping air through the airline tubing. It's a lot easier to cool off air than water and the smaller diameter tubing would provide more cooling surface area on the inside of the tubing. It's also a cheaper set up. I just wish I could find someone who is already doing it to read their notes and comments. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 5:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers I've seen the refrigerator type chiller. You use a larger diameter tubing than airline tubing--like the size used on the canister filters--3/4" or better. The problem, and hence inefficiency I mentioned is the tubing itself acting as an insulator. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates - now Chillers Tania, Aquarium Chillers can be quite expensive... well over $500.00 or more depending on the tank size and cooling requirements... which is why the DIY chiller is a commonly looked at option. \\Steve// Quite a while back, when I first started keeping goldfish indoors, in order to NOT have to run my central A/C all of the time, I looked into the DIY chiller and I thought of two other less expensive options since I didn't want a dorm fridge in my living room. One option was to buy one of those piezo-electric coolers (six-pack size on up depending on the space allowable under the tank, tank size, etc.) and then putting an air pump inside it or just having a long coil of tubing sitting in the cooler so it would constantly pump chilled air into the tank. These types of coolers will usually lower the temp inside the cooler to around 30-40 degrees lower than the ambient (external) temperature. At first I was thinking about just putting the air pump inside the cooler but air pumps put out heat so that would partially or fully offset the cooler's abilities. Most air pumps that I've owned have the air intake on the bottom of the pump so my other option was to drill a hole in the side of the cooler, near the bottom (where the cooler air would be) and then silicone the air pump to the cooler so it sucks air from the cooler. A hole would also have to be drilled in the top on the other end, to allow fresh air into the cooler. My other option did involve a smaller dorm fridge but still just running a long coil of airline tubing through it which would chill the air passing through it and then into the tank. This would eliminate the need for a pump and plumbing (and another possible water leak source ... and further because a water pump that would push water through a 1/4" airline tubing is hard to find and having the smaller diameter airline tubing would be preferred to give the most water contact with the cooling surface of the airline tube. I was going to have to experiment with both of these ideas since I couldn't find either one being done already. Have you ever seen either of those two ideas tried? Another inexpensive option is a small window A/C unit just for the room where the tank is kept.. costs about $100-$150... keep the room at 72F and you'll benefit from the cooling as well, without having to run your central air as much for the rest of the house. As part of my hurricane preparedness upgrading done after Katrina, I bought a nice sized generator and a room sized window A/C unit. I haven't had to use it long term yet but I did run them for two 5-6 hour periods when we lost power during Gustav this summer. God, it was so nice to have power and air conditioning! I even ran long extension cords to a couple of my neighbors so they could save their refrigerated stuff and run a light and fan... but they had to come to my place if they wanted A/C! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Yes, they do. They are called chillers and are a bit pricey. You can build your own, if you wish, with a small dorm refrigerator, some tools, tubing, a pump, and silicone. They are not quite as efficient, but they do work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 8:51:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 10:19:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Bachelor Nesting!

It's natural for male bettas to build bubble nests even if there is no female in sight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 5:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta Bachelor Nesting! He's a gorgeous purple-blue male living in a small bowl (1.5 G), with an airstone ( I run it occasionally if I didn't change the water for two days or so). Every 3 or 4 days I find him building a bubble nest! Does it indicate to something? should I do something for him? He was in the 20 G community 3 months later, but the Angels bothered him and nipped off his fins. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 8:51:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 10:21:43 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Enid, I'm breathing fine and not the least bit upset... but sometimes it takes "illustrating absurdity by being absurd" to get through to some people, which is the reason for that added comment. BTW.. I didn't see any comments from you in telling Dora where to look after it had already been explained five or six times. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish In a message dated 10/27/2008 12:21:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: God, it's so simple. No research involved... just follow the simple directions. Lenny Vasbinder Please Lenny, don't have a heart attack over this! Breathe, breathe! Enid _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 10:35:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31913	From: Alina	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: My snails

Hello all, Questions about my snail friends. Not the nuisance ones that gave me a headache, my apple snails. This weekend I brought home a few more fish, (and a 10-gal tank, and a new airstone..and..it's an addiction, and no, I'm not ready to admit I have a problem yet :-) ) and another apple snail. So this little guy is all over my tank, up and down and under things and over things...just so darned cool....which makes me wonder about my first apple snail. He's not very active. Sometimes he's out and about, but a lot, he just hangs out in the back of the tank. I put some Boston lettuce in the tank last night and the new snail ate about half the leaf...Gary, my first snail, pretty much ignores any treats I add. He does eat algae wafers, which I add about twice a week. I'm just trying to figure out if anything is wrong with him. Sound normal? Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31914	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)

It was an unusual situation, I spoke to the pet strore person on the phone, and described the problems, then my friend, who I called because I knew she was over there near the store went to get the stuff. I never would have made it there, as the store was closing. They were nice enough to let her in after they had acutally closed. We had spoken more about the Maracyn, and she must have just thrown that Lifeguard in there too. I didn't use it, because the other seemed more important, and less complicated, at least to start. She also gave me some API aquarium salt. I don't actually see a list of ingredients, but see they have a website: http://www.aquariumpharm.com It is the Jungle Lifeguard, and on the instructions on the box it says "before treatment, remove filter carbon and turn off UV sterilizer...after treatment is complete, (5 days) wait 24 hrs (day 6) then return activated carbon and turn on UV..." I have water ready to do a PWC now, and then will add the Maracyn and put the sick one back in the tank. He is more active this morning, but the water in his bowl is full of that slimy stuff that has come off him. Thanks, Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. That site has some of the outdated info about treating dropsy but > touches on some of the current info also... but there are still many that > have reported some success using the epsom salt treatment method... but it > seems that the best method for success is using an injection of antibiotics > and the second best is treating the tank with a broad spectrum antibiotic > and feeding the fish medicated foods if they are still eating. > > The reason that person talked about turning off the filter for five days was > that the medicine would likely kill off the nitrifying bacteria in the > filter... but turning it off for five days would also kill off all of the > nitrifying bacteria anyhow, so I have never understood that kind of advice. > Their other reasoning might be that they wouldn't want the carbon in the > filter to remove the meds but you should always remove the carbon from a > filter system when treating with meds anyhow so you could still keep the > filter running. I'm not sure what their reason(s) were for that advice. > Try to remember to always ask "Why?" when getting advice from any source. > If they can't give a logical/reasonable answer, they may not be a good > source of info. > > Is it the Jungle Brand Lifeguard medicine? > http://www.aquariumguys.com/jungle-lifeguard-medication-6pk.html or > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+14981 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+14981&pc > atid=14981> &pcatid=14981 > > From reading the info on those pages, Lifeguard is an external treatment > only so I'm not sure it would help at all with Dropsy but maybe he was > thinking of this as a treatment for whatever was causing the sloughing of > the excess slime coat. You would have to ask the "Why?". > > Since you are going with the Maracyn 1 & 2 broad spectrum antibiotic, I > would only use that and the table salt for now. Too many meds, or the wrong > meds, can be just as rough on the fish as what you might be treating. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( > tail) > > Here is the link to the website where I read about the dropsy > > http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy> > > They say 82-86degrees. I didn't set it that high, but he seems to like it > more with it slightly warmer. > So maybe I will put him back in the tank. I can put the rest of the powder > in there, and the heater. He seems to be doing better, is moving around a > little, and his tail is more perky. > > The person from the pet store also sent something called Lifeguard all in > one treatment. > But I haven't used it yet. It is a non-antibiotic agent, it says. But > requires turning off the filter for the five days of treatment. > > thanks > Joanna > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 9:53:02 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31915	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: My snails

I have 3 Mystery Snails...and they all have distinct personalities. They are all pretty active, but 1 of them is much less active then the others. They all have favorite places to rest, favorite things to climb on, fav. things to do for fun, and fav. things to eat. As long as he seems healthy, I would guess the quiet snail is just a calm, shy kinda guy. :) -----Original Message----- From: Alina <alambiet@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:12 am Subject: [AquaticLife] My snails Hello all, Questions about my snail friends. Not the nuisance ones that gave me a headache, my apple snails. This weekend I brought home a few more fish, (and a 10-gal tank, and a new airstone..and..it's an addiction, and no, I'm not ready to admit I have a problem yet :-) ) and another apple snail. So this little guy is all over my tank, up and down and under things and over things...just so darned cool....which makes me wonder about my first apple snail. He's not very active. Sometimes he's out and about, but a lot, he just hangs out in the back of the tank. I put some Boston lettuce in the tank last night and the new snail ate about half the leaf...Gary, my first snail, pretty much ignores any treats I add. He does eat algae wafers, which I add about twice a week. I'm just trying to figure out if anything is wrong with him. Sound normal? Alina ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31916	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)

You could have saved money on the "Aquarium Salt". It's just plain old table salt. NaCl - Sodium Chloride. If it wasn't for newbie's, API and Doc Johnson would never sell any of their "Aquarium Salt". LOL Next time, go to your local grocery and get a 2lb box for about 50 cents or less. Get the non-iodized plain salt but if something ever comes up and all you have is iodized, it's OK to use it for treatment purposes since the level of iodide is so low and then the amount of salt in the tank is so diluted that it's not an issue. Some folks will buy Kosher Salt for use in their kitchens (and for fish) instead of the plain salt since the Kosher Salt is supposed to be more pure so that's another less expensive alternative than the Aquarium Salt at the pet store. Just buy what you would also use in your kitchen/cooking and that will be fine. So it does not say to turn off the filter, just remove the carbon and turn off a UV sterilizer which most folks do not have anyhow. When keeping goldfish in undersized containers (like when in the hospital bowl), it's very important to do daily PWC's to keep the water in half-way decent shape. I think a 10G is the best size tank for having on hand for a quarantine or hospital tank. They only cost around $10.00 (at WalMart and other places) but another option is a similar sized or larger clear Sterilite plastic storage box which is even less than $10.00 and can be used for other storage (clothes or other non-toxic items) when not needed for the fish. Most medicines have instructions set up for "per 10 gallons" which is another good reason for having a 10G tank/container so you don't have to try and guess at the dosages. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail) It was an unusual situation, I spoke to the pet strore person on the phone, and described the problems, then my friend, who I called because I knew she was over there near the store went to get the stuff. I never would have made it there, as the store was closing. They were nice enough to let her in after they had acutally closed. We had spoken more about the Maracyn, and she must have just thrown that Lifeguard in there too. I didn't use it, because the other seemed more important, and less complicated, at least to start. She also gave me some API aquarium salt. I don't actually see a list of ingredients, but see they have a website: http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> It is the Jungle Lifeguard, and on the instructions on the box it says "before treatment, remove filter carbon and turn off UV sterilizer...after treatment is complete, (5 days) wait 24 hrs (day 6) then return activated carbon and turn on UV..." I have water ready to do a PWC now, and then will add the Maracyn and put the sick one back in the tank. He is more active this morning, but the water in his bowl is full of that slimy stuff that has come off him. Thanks, Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. That site has some of the outdated info about treating dropsy but > touches on some of the current info also... but there are still many > that have reported some success using the epsom salt treatment > method... but it seems that the best method for success is using an > injection of antibiotics and the second best is treating the tank with > a broad spectrum antibiotic and feeding the fish medicated foods if they are still eating. > > The reason that person talked about turning off the filter for five > days was that the medicine would likely kill off the nitrifying > bacteria in the filter... but turning it off for five days would also > kill off all of the nitrifying bacteria anyhow, so I have never understood that kind of advice. > Their other reasoning might be that they wouldn't want the carbon in > the filter to remove the meds but you should always remove the carbon > from a filter system when treating with meds anyhow so you could still > keep the filter running. I'm not sure what their reason(s) were for that advice. > Try to remember to always ask "Why?" when getting advice from any source. > If they can't give a logical/reasonable answer, they may not be a good > source of info. > > Is it the Jungle Brand Lifeguard medicine? > http://www.aquariumguys.com/jungle-lifeguard-medication-6pk.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/jungle-lifeguard-medication-6pk.html> or > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+149 > 81 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+14 > 981> > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+14 > 981&pc > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+14 > 981&pc> > atid=14981> &pcatid=14981 > > From reading the info on those pages, Lifeguard is an external > treatment only so I'm not sure it would help at all with Dropsy but > maybe he was thinking of this as a treatment for whatever was causing > the sloughing of the excess slime coat. You would have to ask the "Why?". > > Since you are going with the Maracyn 1 & 2 broad spectrum antibiotic, > I would only use that and the table salt for now. Too many meds, or > the wrong meds, can be just as rough on the fish as what you might be treating. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin > ( > tail) > > Here is the link to the website where I read about the dropsy > > http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy> > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy> > > > They say 82-86degrees. I didn't set it that high, but he seems to like > it more with it slightly warmer. > So maybe I will put him back in the tank. I can put the rest of the > powder in there, and the heater. He seems to be doing better, is > moving around a little, and his tail is more perky. > > The person from the pet store also sent something called Lifeguard all > in one treatment. > But I haven't used it yet. It is a non-antibiotic agent, it says. But > requires turning off the filter for the five days of treatment. > > thanks > Joanna > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 > 9:53:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 11:13:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 11:32:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31917	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 9:59:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31918	From: greychildren	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i want more. Is it just me or am i going over board? i want a ciclid tank.. I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week at my LFS. Should i get help?..lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31919	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

This has been previously diagnosed as MTS (Multi Tank Syndrome.... not to be confused with Malaysian Trumpet Snails). After multiple studies costing millions of dollars, the only known cure is more and bigger tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i want more. Is it just me or am i going over board? i want a ciclid tank.. I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week at my LFS. Should i get help?..lol _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 11:48:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31920	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

I have a 20g, and just got a 72g to upgrade the 20g. I have full stocking plans for my 72g, the 20g once its free, another 10g that isn't even set-up yet, and a 55g I have yet to even purchase. We all suffer from it. :p -----Original Message----- From: greychildren <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:35 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i want more. Is it just me or am i going over board? i want a ciclid tank.. I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week at my LFS. Should i get help?..lol ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31921	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: tank temp

Can anyone tell me what temp for a 46 gal freshwater tank.....Its 73.4 now and my gold fish isn't as active... Thanks Janis **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31922	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals they are such idiots! On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 12:21 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I'm sitting her watching RedEye on Fox News Channel (a late night comedy > hour-long show, that I recommend, that has some pretty warped humor at > times... considering it's on Fox News) and right now, they are talking > about > PETA starting a campaign aimed at kids, to rename fish "Sea Kittens" to > raise their fish-rights agenda against fisherman... and I'm sure us as > well. > > I had to Google it to find out more and it's actually on their PETA2 > website.. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/> > http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/ They even have a Sea Kitten bed time > story. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> > http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp > > PETA is pretty PathETicAl. > > Yes, pathetical is a word and it's the only one I could think of where PETA > would fit within it and it applied to my thoughts about them. LOL > <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical> > http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:21:05 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31923	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 9:59:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31924	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

They do a lot of stupid stuff. While most PETA folk are well meaning, they are such zealots that they can't see past their nose and see the harm they are actually causing. About 10 years ago or so, we used to have a mink farm near here. These idiots came in and rescued the minks by releasing them into the environment. Anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together would know that minks are not native to the Chicago area. So here these morons released a voracious predator into the local environment causing all sorts of havoc to native species.not to mention untold harm to the minks who are not adapted to life here. Most of the time I fine they do things akin to cutting off the arm to save the hand. I find that while most are well intentioned, they are a bunch of wack jobs that are no better the fundamentalists pushing their religion on everyone. PETA is one of the many groups that gives liberals a bad name. It just shows that the extreme of any ideology is just bad news. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL I'm sitting her watching RedEye on Fox News Channel (a late night comedy hour-long show, that I recommend, that has some pretty warped humor at times... considering it's on Fox News) and right now, they are talking about PETA starting a campaign aimed at kids, to rename fish "Sea Kittens" to raise their fish-rights agenda against fisherman... and I'm sure us as well. I had to Google it to find out more and it's actually on their PETA2 website.. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/> com/sea_Kittens/> http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/> com/sea_Kittens/ They even have a Sea Kitten bed time story. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> com/sea_Kittens/book.asp PETA is pretty PathETicAl. Yes, pathetical is a word and it's the only one I could think of where PETA would fit within it and it applied to my thoughts about them. LOL <http://www.thefreed <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical> ictionary.com/Pathetical> http://www.thefreed <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical> ictionary.com/Pathetical Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:21:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31925	From: bill1433	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby---Ya did It Wrong!

Hi greychildren ! � My name is Bill and I can you this right now------ya did it wrong! � What you need to do right now is to stop worrying about what tanks or how many you have and concentrate on whatcha ya ain�t got ===another one! � Years ago, this was how I got so many tanks to begin with.� How would I do it today?� Simple!� � Look at the walls!� Do you have room for another tank wall space wise?� How much room in feet?� 4,5,6 or 8 foot?� Good.� Now once you have that (assuming your putting this new tank on a 1st or 2nd floor) check the basement rafters and floor supports.� Remember that by rule of thumb, just consider this new tank at 10 pounds (water plus stand) per gallon. If you�re already in the basement and working off of a concrete floor, don�t worry about support.� At the 300-gallon mark, you�ll be working with roughly 1 � tons. � Now get yourself out and get the largest tank you can both afford and up keep. Next,� ENJOY! � I bought a truckload of 20�s in the beginning (every time I went into another species, cichlids, etc) I bought another tank.� Babies and small fry?� Another tank!� What did I really want?� The tank I still have dreams about; �a 180 at 72 x 24 x24.� Only now with today�s construction methods probably an 8 footer at 24 x 24.� I can only tell you this, IMHO, I only ever got as far as 3 100-gallon tanks and a lot of smalller ones and the bigger the tank, the more fun I had and enjoyed.� Out of the hooby now for many years and just starting to get back into it. � Take care, � Still------------------wishin� & hopin�� Bill --- On Mon, 10/27/08, greychildren <greychildren@...> wrote: From: greychildren <greychildren@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 12:35 PM I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i want more. Is it just me or am i going over board? i want a ciclid tank.. I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week at my LFS. Should i get help?..lol [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31926	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

Yes! You will get it right here. You can find more tanks at craigslist.org your local freecycle(check yahoo) flea markets, rummage sales, garage sales, ads in newspapers, ebay, aquabid.com and so on. That is the help you need ;) -Mike I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week at my LFS. Should i get help?..lol -----Original Message----- From: greychildren <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 9:35 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i want more. Is it just me or am i going over board? i want a ciclid tank.. I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week at my LFS. Should i get help?..lol [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31927	From: L. Gove	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

I complete agree! they did the same thing with Lobsters.. saying that they SCREAM when they are cooked.. the whistling sound is salt water excaping through the shell. Lobsters are exoskeleton creatures.. who don't have a central nervous system. add alittle steam and they go right to sleep. I remeber the mink thing.. i thought at the time that they should have been shot for realeasing minks into the wild. They don't have ANY BRAINS! Lisa and Spike masd On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > They do a lot of stupid stuff. While most PETA folk are well meaning, > they > are such zealots that they can't see past their nose and see the harm they > are actually causing. About 10 years ago or so, we used to have a mink farm > near here. These idiots came in and rescued the minks by releasing them > into the environment. Anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together > would know that minks are not native to the Chicago area. So here these > morons released a voracious predator into the local environment causing all > sorts of havoc to native species.not to mention untold harm to the minks > who > are not adapted to life here. Most of the time I fine they do things akin > to cutting off the arm to save the hand. > > I find that while most are well intentioned, they are a bunch of wack jobs > that are no better the fundamentalists pushing their religion on everyone. > > PETA is one of the many groups that gives liberals a bad name. It just > shows that the extreme of any ideology is just bad news. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL > > I'm sitting her watching RedEye on Fox News Channel (a late night comedy > hour-long show, that I recommend, that has some pretty warped humor at > times... considering it's on Fox News) and right now, they are talking > about > PETA starting a campaign aimed at kids, to rename fish "Sea Kittens" to > raise their fish-rights agenda against fisherman... and I'm sure us as > well. > > I had to Google it to find out more and it's actually on their PETA2 > website.. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/> > com/sea_Kittens/> > http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/> com/sea_Kittens/ > They > even have a Sea Kitten bed time > story. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> > com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> > http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> > com/sea_Kittens/book.asp > > PETA is pretty PathETicAl. > > Yes, pathetical is a word and it's the only one I could think of where PETA > would fit within it and it applied to my thoughts about them. LOL > <http://www.thefreed <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical> > ictionary.com/Pathetical> > http://www.thefreed <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical> > ictionary.com/Pathetical > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. <http://goldlenny./> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny. <http://goldlenny./> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound > > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:21:05 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31928	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

Trying to attach human qualities to non humans is their short term goal. The long term goal is to get rid of all pets, ALL PETS! dogs, cats, fish! You name the pet and PETA wants it to no longer be a pet! Not only end them as pets they want dogs and cats to all become sterilized and stop in one generation! Yes, one generation and extinct is their goal. In their warped minds they see pet keeping as an abomination and want it to end now. Recent evidence has been uncovered of dog domestication as far back as 31,000 years! They want to end that in our life time and they will do it if we do not stop them! They do have domestic terrorists in their ranks, some even run the organization. Most well meaning people that donate to them think they are helping those poor dogs and cats at the pound and nothing culd be farther from the truth. Peta has been caught red handed with pets they have killed and dumped into dumpsters. You donate to them and you donate to pet killers that WILL and are working on legislation in all 50 states and abroad to end the bond between humans and their pets. -Mike Anti-Peta@yahoogroups.com is a place to discussanimal rights in all forms. An unmoderated group. -----Original Message----- From: L. Gove <KWELYROOS71@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:57 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL I complete agree! they did the same thing with Lobsters.. saying that they SCREAM when they are cooked.. the whistling sound is salt water excaping through the shell. Lobsters are exoskeleton creatures.. who don't have a central nervous system. add alittle steam and they go right to sleep. I remeber the mink thing.. i thought at the time that they should have been shot for realeasing minks into the wild. They don't have ANY BRAINS! Lisa and Spike masd On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > They do a lot of stupid stuff. While most PETA folk are well meaning, > they > are such zealots that they can't see past their nose and see the harm they > are actually causing. About 10 years ago or so, we used to have a mink farm > near here. These idiots came in and rescued the minks by releasing them > into the environment. Anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together > would know that minks are not native to the Chicago area. So here these > morons released a voracious predator into the local environment causing all > sorts of havoc to native species.not to mention untold harm to the minks > who > are not adapted to life here. Most of the time I fine they do things akin > to cutting off the arm to save the hand. > > I find that while most are well intentioned, they are a bunch of wack jobs > that are no better the fundamentalists pushing their religion on everyone. > > PETA is one of the many groups that gives liberals a bad name. It just > shows that the extreme of any ideology is just bad news. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL > > I'm sitting her watching RedEye on Fox News Channel (a late night comedy > hour-long show, that I recommend, that has some pretty warped humor at > times... considering it's on Fox News) and right now, they are talking > about > PETA starting a campaign aimed at kids, to rename fish "Sea Kittens" to > raise their fish-rights agenda against fisherman... and I'm sure us as > well. > > I had to Google it to find out more and it's actually on their PETA2 > website.. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/> > com/sea_Kittens/> > http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/> com/sea_Kittens/ > They > even have a Sea Kitten bed time > story. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> > com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> > http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> > com/sea_Kittens/book.asp > > PETA is pretty PathETicAl. > > Yes, pathetical is a word and it's the only one I could think of where PETA > would fit within it and it applied to my thoughts about them. LOL > <http://www.thefreed <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical> > ictionary.com/Pathetical> > http://www.thefreed <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical> > ictionary.com/Pathetical > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. <http://goldlenny./> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny. <http://goldlenny./> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound > > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:21:05 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31929	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

I got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its a pretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 9:59:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31930	From: Alison	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Good decorative rocks and gravel....

I have done lots of searching and it seems to not be known whether or not (solid not crumbly) sandstone is okay for aquatic use. There are some other types of rock down in my creek, I'd like to know from reputable fish keepers which rocks doesn't bother water quality. I checked the Indiana Geological Survey Map and my area has mostly shale, sandstone, limestone and coal, it explains the different layers in which they're in and stuff, pretty cool. All I know for sure is that limestone and coal isn't good. My plan was to collect gravel and rock from the creek here at my house, but I'm not sure now. Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31931	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow

> From: bubuci@... > . . . The will probably eat my guppies right? Tania, I have two rainbows. I had one to start and he swam with my larger (dwarf) gourami but he (the gourami) passed. But then the rainbow pretty much started swimming with anyone that passed by including a slightly smaller (honey red) Gourami and even the yo-yo loaches at times. Finally decided to get him a swimming mate which I placed in quarantine. It just so happened I had a guppy in the 5 gal quarantine that was recovering from fin-rot. Never bothered the guppy and seemed kind of buddy-buddy. Now both rainbows are in the 75 (as well as the guppy, the barb wouldn't leave in alone in the 10 gal.) I've never had any problems with these guys so far other than being big eaters. I echo what I read in someone else's reply; one of my rainbows are yellow, the other orange ... I don't really see the colors change per se, but rather they will intensify and diminish depending on how the light hits them. Jim E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31932	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

Hi Noura, I imagine Lenny has replied by now about the benefits of the Malaysian trumpet snail. Yes, some people do find them useful in the substrate of an aqaurium to stop pockets of anaerobic bacteria from forming. Over feeding gives them what they need to breed like mad. I cannot stand them and strive to keep them out of my tanks. I had a 20 gallon about 7 years ago and the entire substrate looked like it was alive at night. A good friend of mine has a fish business, breeding, selling, importing, etc. He has had major outbreaks of them in his tanks. He has found two solutions, one of which is potentially dangerous for other fish in the tank so I will not post it on an open forum. The other method he uses is to boil all the gravel until it kills the snails. Since he does not have a stove in his shop he uses a microwave oven to boil the water. The smell is overwhelming but done corectly it rids the gravel of the problem. He has to put the boiled gravel in a bucket of water for a few days to allow the dead snails to rise to the surface. Peridoic stirring of the gravel allows more dead snails to float to the top. More rinsing of the gravel to rid it of additional snails is needed so no dead tissue is in the tank. Of course when the boiling is started it kills off all bacteria in the gravel and your tank may have a minicycle as part of the gravel had your beneficial bacteria in it. I almost forgot, there is a third method, but I do not think it can keep up with the MTS. There is a species of predator snail. This snail feeds on other snails. Hard to find and expensive as far as snails go these snails will very very slowly make steps toward getting rid of nuisance snails but I do not know if they can keep up with the MTS as they breed like mad. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Noura Taweel <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 3:52 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Clown Loach I have too many of them, but they're not making any problems (except for making my husband feel disgusted if he looked to the tank at night time, he hates all sorts of snails!). I just noticed that my clown loaches are digging less in the gravel, and getting more excited when I feed the fish in the community tank. And I don't have any live plants anymore. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > No. You are correct, the shells are too hard. The clown loaches may be able to eat the smallest of them but as well as the MTS snails hide it will be a losing battle. > > Are you having issue with too many of them? > > -Mike > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31933	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)

Do I keep the filter running without a filter ? Or is there there a non-carbon filter I need to to stick in there? j --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You could have saved money on the "Aquarium Salt". It's just plain old > table salt. NaCl - Sodium Chloride. If it wasn't for newbie's, API and Doc > Johnson would never sell any of their "Aquarium Salt". LOL Next time, go to > your local grocery and get a 2lb box for about 50 cents or less. Get the > non-iodized plain salt but if something ever comes up and all you have is > iodized, it's OK to use it for treatment purposes since the level of iodide > is so low and then the amount of salt in the tank is so diluted that it's > not an issue. Some folks will buy Kosher Salt for use in their kitchens > (and for fish) instead of the plain salt since the Kosher Salt is supposed > to be more pure so that's another less expensive alternative than the > Aquarium Salt at the pet store. Just buy what you would also use in your > kitchen/cooking and that will be fine. > > So it does not say to turn off the filter, just remove the carbon and turn > off a UV sterilizer which most folks do not have anyhow. > > When keeping goldfish in undersized containers (like when in the hospital > bowl), it's very important to do daily PWC's to keep the water in half-way > decent shape. I think a 10G is the best size tank for having on hand for a > quarantine or hospital tank. They only cost around $10.00 (at WalMart and > other places) but another option is a similar sized or larger clear > Sterilite plastic storage box which is even less than $10.00 and can be used > for other storage (clothes or other non-toxic items) when not needed for the > fish. Most medicines have instructions set up for "per 10 gallons" which is > another good reason for having a 10G tank/container so you don't have to try > and guess at the dosages. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( > tail) > > It was an unusual situation, I spoke to the pet strore person on the phone, > and described the problems, then my friend, who I called because I knew she > was over there near the store went to get the stuff. I never would have made > it there, as the store was closing. > They were nice enough to let her in after they had acutally closed. We had > spoken more about the Maracyn, and she must have just thrown that Lifeguard > in there too. I didn't use it, because the other seemed more important, and > less complicated, at least to start. > > She also gave me some API aquarium salt. I don't actually see a list of > ingredients, but see they have a website: http://www.aquariumpharm.com > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > > It is the Jungle Lifeguard, and on the instructions on the box it says > "before treatment, remove filter carbon and turn off UV sterilizer...after > treatment is complete, (5 days) wait > 24 hrs (day 6) then return activated carbon and turn on UV..." > > I have water ready to do a PWC now, and then will add the Maracyn and put > the sick one back in the tank. He is more active this morning, but the water > in his bowl is full of that slimy stuff that has come off him. > > Thanks, > Joanna > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > OK. That site has some of the outdated info about treating dropsy but > > touches on some of the current info also... but there are still many > > that have reported some success using the epsom salt treatment > > method... but it seems that the best method for success is using an > > injection of antibiotics and the second best is treating the tank with > > a broad spectrum antibiotic and feeding the fish medicated foods if they > are still eating. > > > > The reason that person talked about turning off the filter for five > > days was that the medicine would likely kill off the nitrifying > > bacteria in the filter... but turning it off for five days would also > > kill off all of the nitrifying bacteria anyhow, so I have never understood > that kind of advice. > > Their other reasoning might be that they wouldn't want the carbon in > > the filter to remove the meds but you should always remove the carbon > > from a filter system when treating with meds anyhow so you could still > > keep the filter running. I'm not sure what their reason(s) were for that > advice. > > Try to remember to always ask "Why?" when getting advice from any source. > > If they can't give a logical/reasonable answer, they may not be a good > > source of info. > > > > Is it the Jungle Brand Lifeguard medicine? > > http://www.aquariumguys.com/jungle-lifeguard-medication-6pk.html > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/jungle-lifeguard-medication-6pk.html> or > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+149 > > 81 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+14 > > 981> > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+14 > > 981&pc > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+14 > > 981&pc> > > atid=14981> &pcatid=14981 > > > > From reading the info on those pages, Lifeguard is an external > > treatment only so I'm not sure it would help at all with Dropsy but > > maybe he was thinking of this as a treatment for whatever was causing > > the sloughing of the excess slime coat. You would have to ask the "Why?". > > > > Since you are going with the Maracyn 1 & 2 broad spectrum antibiotic, > > I would only use that and the table salt for now. Too many meds, or > > the wrong meds, can be just as rough on the fish as what you might be > treating. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of olesonjo > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:21 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin > > ( > > tail) > > > > Here is the link to the website where I read about the dropsy > > > > http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy > > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy> > > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy > > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy> > > > > > They say 82-86degrees. I didn't set it that high, but he seems to like > > it more with it slightly warmer. > > So maybe I will put him back in the tank. I can put the rest of the > > powder in there, and the heater. He seems to be doing better, is > > moving around a little, and his tail is more perky. > > > > The person from the pet store also sent something called Lifeguard all > > in one treatment. > > But I haven't used it yet. It is a non-antibiotic agent, it says. But > > requires turning off the filter for the five days of treatment. > > > > thanks > > Joanna > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 > > 9:53:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 11:13:13 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 11:32:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31934	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

Hehe I remember that we used to make a joke out of it when I lived in Louisiana and had a crawfish boil hehehe. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of L. Gove Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL I complete agree! they did the same thing with Lobsters.. saying that they SCREAM when they are cooked.. the whistling sound is salt water excaping through the shell. Lobsters are exoskeleton creatures.. who don't have a central nervous system. add alittle steam and they go right to sleep. I remeber the mink thing.. i thought at the time that they should have been shot for realeasing minks into the wild. They don't have ANY BRAINS! Lisa and Spike masd On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Eric Roberts <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> org> wrote: > They do a lot of stupid stuff. While most PETA folk are well meaning, > they > are such zealots that they can't see past their nose and see the harm they > are actually causing. About 10 years ago or so, we used to have a mink farm > near here. These idiots came in and rescued the minks by releasing them > into the environment. Anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together > would know that minks are not native to the Chicago area. So here these > morons released a voracious predator into the local environment causing all > sorts of havoc to native species.not to mention untold harm to the minks > who > are not adapted to life here. Most of the time I fine they do things akin > to cutting off the arm to save the hand. > > I find that while most are well intentioned, they are a bunch of wack jobs > that are no better the fundamentalists pushing their religion on everyone. > > PETA is one of the many groups that gives liberals a bad name. It just > shows that the extreme of any ideology is just bad news. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL > > I'm sitting her watching RedEye on Fox News Channel (a late night comedy > hour-long show, that I recommend, that has some pretty warped humor at > times... considering it's on Fox News) and right now, they are talking > about > PETA starting a campaign aimed at kids, to rename fish "Sea Kittens" to > raise their fish-rights agenda against fisherman... and I'm sure us as > well. > > I had to Google it to find out more and it's actually on their PETA2 > website.. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/> com/sea_Kittens/> > com/sea_Kittens/> > http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/> com/sea_Kittens/> com/sea_Kittens/ > They > even have a Sea Kitten bed time > story. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> > com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> > http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2. <http://www.peta2.com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> com/sea_Kittens/book.asp> > com/sea_Kittens/book.asp > > PETA is pretty PathETicAl. > > Yes, pathetical is a word and it's the only one I could think of where PETA > would fit within it and it applied to my thoughts about them. LOL > <http://www.thefreed <http://www.thefreed <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical> ictionary.com/Pathetical> > ictionary.com/Pathetical> > http://www.thefreed <http://www.thefreed <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pathetical> ictionary.com/Pathetical> > ictionary.com/Pathetical > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. <http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny./> /> < > http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> blogspot.com/>> > blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny. <http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny./> /> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com<http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> blogspot.com/>> > blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> : Outbound > > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:21:05 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40live.com> live.com on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@ <mailto:dark.moon.crafts%40gmail.com> gmail.com kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com kwelyroos71@ <mailto:kwelyroos71%40gmail.com> gmail.com www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31935	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: tank temp

Goldfish should be fine at 73F. Tell us more. You say it's 73.4 now.. did you recently change this? If yes, by how much and how fast? What other water parameters do you have tests for? Give us those numbers also. How many goldfish in the 46G and how long have you had them... and your experience level? Are they fancy goldfish or long-bodied goldfish? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tank temp Can anyone tell me what temp for a 46 gal freshwater tank.....Its 73.4 now and my gold fish isn't as active... Thanks Janis _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 3:39:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31936	From: harry perry	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction /no cure

There is no such thing as too many tanks.It is an incurable disease.  A second mortgage would be a big help.  Convert the garage, basement etc. Tanks fit well on counters in the kitchen, bathroom, bedroom. There are worse disease, enjoy this one. Harry --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 2:03 PM Yes! You will get it right here. You can find more tanks at craigslist.org your local freecycle(check yahoo) flea markets, rummage sales, garage sales, ads in newspapers, ebay, aquabid.com and so on. That is the help you need ;) -Mike I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week at my LFS. Should i get help?..lol -----Original Message----- From: greychildren <greychildren@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 9:35 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i want more. Is it just me or am i going over board? i want a ciclid tank.. I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week at my LFS. Should i get help?..lol [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31937	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about loaches and this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single hit on Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did find some happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth enough for your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:33:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31938	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

I thought you were looking for black sand? LOL I know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its a pretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:41:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31939	From: jjmiltner	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: my fish mess

I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? Thanks Jennie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31940	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Good decorative rocks and gravel....

Here are some pages I have in my favorites about rocks and aquariums. They do have opposing opinions on some rocks so if you are considering one that have opposing opinions, do a little more research. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml http://www.uniquaria.com/index.php/articles/6-misc/21-aquarium-safe-rocks http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html Sandstone is OK on one list but not on the other. You could/should do the acid test on them before adding them to your tank to determine how stable they are. Muriatic acid works best but white vinegar will sometimes work but is a very weak acid and pickling vinegar is a stronger acid than plain white but not nearly as strong as muriatic acid. Some limestone's are fine for certain fish that prefer harder water and some sandstone may not be depending on if it contains any impurities. I believe sandstone is rather porous so it could have who-knows-what inside all the pores. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alison Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Good decorative rocks and gravel.... I have done lots of searching and it seems to not be known whether or not (solid not crumbly) sandstone is okay for aquatic use. There are some other types of rock down in my creek, I'd like to know from reputable fish keepers which rocks doesn't bother water quality. I checked the Indiana Geological Survey Map and my area has mostly shale, sandstone, limestone and coal, it explains the different layers in which they're in and stuff, pretty cool. All I know for sure is that limestone and coal isn't good. My plan was to collect gravel and rock from the creek here at my house, but I'm not sure now. Thanks! _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:51:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31941	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail)

Depends on your filter system. See my blog article "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheel", since this will probably be similar to your filter cartridge, to see how I modified the filter cartridge on that system to remove the carbon and add more filter floss media. Now might be a good time to modify your filter cartridge and get rid of the carbon. While at my blog, also read my long article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you don't make the common mistakes that I go over in that article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin ( tail) Do I keep the filter running without a filter ? Or is there there a non-carbon filter I need to to stick in there? j --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You could have saved money on the "Aquarium Salt". It's just plain old > table salt. NaCl - Sodium Chloride. If it wasn't for newbie's, API and > Doc Johnson would never sell any of their "Aquarium Salt". LOL Next > time, go to your local grocery and get a 2lb box for about 50 cents or > less. Get the non-iodized plain salt but if something ever comes up > and all you have is iodized, it's OK to use it for treatment purposes > since the level of iodide is so low and then the amount of salt in the > tank is so diluted that it's not an issue. Some folks will buy Kosher > Salt for use in their kitchens (and for fish) instead of the plain > salt since the Kosher Salt is supposed to be more pure so that's > another less expensive alternative than the Aquarium Salt at the pet > store. Just buy what you would also use in your kitchen/cooking and that will be fine. > > So it does not say to turn off the filter, just remove the carbon and > turn off a UV sterilizer which most folks do not have anyhow. > > When keeping goldfish in undersized containers (like when in the > hospital bowl), it's very important to do daily PWC's to keep the > water in half-way decent shape. I think a 10G is the best size tank > for having on hand for a quarantine or hospital tank. They only cost > around $10.00 (at WalMart and other places) but another option is a > similar sized or larger clear Sterilite plastic storage box which is > even less than $10.00 and can be used for other storage (clothes or > other non-toxic items) when not needed for the fish. Most medicines > have instructions set up for "per 10 gallons" which is another good > reason for having a 10G tank/container so you don't have to try and guess at the dosages. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky skin > ( > tail) > > It was an unusual situation, I spoke to the pet strore person on the > phone, and described the problems, then my friend, who I called > because I knew she was over there near the store went to get the > stuff. I never would have made it there, as the store was closing. > They were nice enough to let her in after they had acutally closed. We > had spoken more about the Maracyn, and she must have just thrown that > Lifeguard in there too. I didn't use it, because the other seemed more > important, and less complicated, at least to start. > > She also gave me some API aquarium salt. I don't actually see a list > of ingredients, but see they have a website: > http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > > > > It is the Jungle Lifeguard, and on the instructions on the box it says > "before treatment, remove filter carbon and turn off UV > sterilizer...after treatment is complete, (5 days) wait > 24 hrs (day 6) then return activated carbon and turn on UV..." > > I have water ready to do a PWC now, and then will add the Maracyn and > put the sick one back in the tank. He is more active this morning, but > the water in his bowl is full of that slimy stuff that has come off him. > > Thanks, > Joanna > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > OK. That site has some of the outdated info about treating dropsy > > but touches on some of the current info also... but there are still > > many that have reported some success using the epsom salt treatment > > method... but it seems that the best method for success is using an > > injection of antibiotics and the second best is treating the tank > > with a broad spectrum antibiotic and feeding the fish medicated > > foods if they > are still eating. > > > > The reason that person talked about turning off the filter for five > > days was that the medicine would likely kill off the nitrifying > > bacteria in the filter... but turning it off for five days would > > also kill off all of the nitrifying bacteria anyhow, so I have never > > understood > that kind of advice. > > Their other reasoning might be that they wouldn't want the carbon in > > the filter to remove the meds but you should always remove the > > carbon from a filter system when treating with meds anyhow so you > > could still keep the filter running. I'm not sure what their > > reason(s) were for that > advice. > > Try to remember to always ask "Why?" when getting advice from any source. > > If they can't give a logical/reasonable answer, they may not be a > > good source of info. > > > > Is it the Jungle Brand Lifeguard medicine? > > http://www.aquariumguys.com/jungle-lifeguard-medication-6pk.html > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/jungle-lifeguard-medication-6pk.html> > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/jungle-lifeguard-medication-6pk.html > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/jungle-lifeguard-medication-6pk.html> > > > or > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+1 > > 49 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+ > > 149> > > 81 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+ > > 14 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+ > > 14> > > 981> > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+ > > 14 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+ > > 14> > > 981&pc > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+ > > 14 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+ > > 14> > > 981&pc> > > atid=14981> &pcatid=14981 > > > > From reading the info on those pages, Lifeguard is an external > > treatment only so I'm not sure it would help at all with Dropsy but > > maybe he was thinking of this as a treatment for whatever was > > causing the sloughing of the excess slime coat. You would have to ask the "Why?". > > > > Since you are going with the Maracyn 1 & 2 broad spectrum > > antibiotic, I would only use that and the table salt for now. Too > > many meds, or the wrong meds, can be just as rough on the fish as > > what you might be > treating. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of olesonjo > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:21 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy and maybe milky > > skin ( > > tail) > > > > Here is the link to the website where I read about the dropsy > > > > http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy > > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy> > > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy > > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy> > > > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy > > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy> > > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy > > <http://www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#dropsy> > > > > > > They say 82-86degrees. I didn't set it that high, but he seems to > > like it more with it slightly warmer. > > So maybe I will put him back in the tank. I can put the rest of the > > powder in there, and the heater. He seems to be doing better, is > > moving around a little, and his tail is more perky. > > > > The person from the pet store also sent something called Lifeguard > > all in one treatment. > > But I haven't used it yet. It is a non-antibiotic agent, it says. > > But requires turning off the filter for the five days of treatment. > > > > thanks > > Joanna > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 > > 9:53:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 > 11:13:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 > 11:32:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 3:07:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:56:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31942	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

I bet you miss dem mudbug boils... sucking the heads and pinching the tails! I only went to a couple this past spring/summer due to being so busy with my biz. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL Hehe.I remember that.we used to make a joke out of it when I lived in Louisiana and had a crawfish boil hehehe. Eric _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:57:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31943	From: pam andress	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

Well sounds like a problem to me. You don't have enough tanks. Pam 2-55g 2-29g 1-20g 1-15g 4-10g 1-2 1/2g and one not set up To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: greychildren@...: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:35:05 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i wantmore.Is it just me or am i going over board?i want a ciclid tank..I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week atmy LFS.Should i get help?..lol [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31944	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

Is it discouraged to mix loach breeds? I have 2 clowns and a border loach. they get along great like they are family. they all play together. I was just curious if in general they may not get along and possibly fight. --Dave On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > They have been known to do it. Loaches do not always crunch the shells > but > rather suck the snail out of the shell. This is why some trap-door snails > have had some success in living with loaches. MTS do not have trap doors so > eventually the loaches would have some success. > > Remember that Clown Loaches get REALLY BIG (over 12" and even over 16") and > need to be kept in shoals of three or more (five or more is better) so a > BIG > tank is needed... 6' long, 100G+. > > What size tank were you planning? > > MTS snails are not prolific breeders like some other snails so if you have > a > problem with a lot of MTS, it means you have too much detritus in your > substrate and need to start vacuuming your gravel better. Personally, I > like MTS in my tanks as they are a good little clean up crew and do not > breed as fast so they are a good bellwether to "remind" you that you might > be overfeeding or under cleaning. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > Hi, > Can Clown Loaches eat Malaysean Trumpet Snails? Their shell looks really > hard! > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 10:04:44 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31945	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

It's probably best to have a shoal of a single species but if yours are shoaling together and clowning around together, then you should be OK. Often, a fish from a different species will take up with and school with a different species. It's probably not the best thing but it's better than them being scared and hiding and stressed all the time. Since your three are active and not hiding all the time, then they are probably doing fine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Is it discouraged to mix loach breeds? I have 2 clowns and a border loach. they get along great like they are family. they all play together. I was just curious if in general they may not get along and possibly fight. --Dave On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > They have been known to do it. Loaches do not always crunch the shells > but rather suck the snail out of the shell. This is why some trap-door > snails have had some success in living with loaches. MTS do not have > trap doors so eventually the loaches would have some success. > > Remember that Clown Loaches get REALLY BIG (over 12" and even over > 16") and need to be kept in shoals of three or more (five or more is > better) so a BIG tank is needed... 6' long, 100G+. > > What size tank were you planning? > > MTS snails are not prolific breeders like some other snails so if you > have a problem with a lot of MTS, it means you have too much detritus > in your substrate and need to start vacuuming your gravel better. > Personally, I like MTS in my tanks as they are a good little clean up > crew and do not breed as fast so they are a good bellwether to > "remind" you that you might be overfeeding or under cleaning. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > Hi, > Can Clown Loaches eat Malaysean Trumpet Snails? Their shell looks > really hard! > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 5:14:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31946	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

In a message dated 10/27/2008 1:08:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, KWELYROOS71@... writes: I complete agree! they did the same thing with Lobsters.. saying that they SCREAM when they are cooked.. the whistling sound is salt water excaping through the shell. Lobsters are exoskeleton creatures.. who don't have a central nervous system. add alittle steam and they go right to sleep. I remeber the mink thing.. i thought at the time that they should have been shot for realeasing minks into the wild. They don't have ANY BRAINS! Lisa and Spike masd There was another incident where they raided a lab and "rescued" the mice and rats then set them free in an open field...The owls and other critters had a field day with those tame white rodents... Idiots. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31947	From: Judith Downing	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

I am wondering if we could have a discussion concerning a side effect of MTS? I am talking about very high electric bills. Could we discuss energy saving suggestions? My electric company is going to increase our rates so that our bills will double by 2010. I don't want to shut down tanks but I may be forced into it. Judy Sent from my iPod

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31948	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: My snails

In a message dated 10/27/2008 10:52:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alambiet@... writes: I put some Boston lettuce in the tank last night and the new snail ate about half the leaf...Gary, my first snail, pretty much ignores any treats I add. He does eat algae wafers, which I add about twice a week. I'm just trying to figure out if anything is wrong with him. Sound normal? Alina Back when I had 3 apple snails I used to give them golden raisins, dried cherries, corn and peas (frozen kind, thawed). Gary might need more carbs in his diet? It's fun to watch a raisin dissappear down the hatch of a snail. They DO eat a lot, Gary might just be weak. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31949	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

In a message dated 10/27/2008 10:36:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: BTW.. I didn't see any comments from you in telling Dora where to look after it had already been explained five or six times. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder No point in getting two of us sarcastic. I'm like you, I tend to google for more info if the link doesn't satisfy my need to know. Carry on, you are doing great! Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31950	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

In a message dated 10/27/2008 2:53:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Deenerz@... writes: I almost forgot, there is a third method, but I do not think it can keep up with the MTS. There is a species of predator snail. This snail feeds on other snails. Hard to find and expensive as far as snails go these snails will very very slowly make steps toward getting rid of nuisance snails but I do not know if they can keep up with the MTS as they breed like mad. -Mike I asked about those snails some time back but seems no one has experience (first hand) with them. Sellers say they are the best at it, but, really they are selling you a product. Personally I trap my ramshorns and feed them to my turtles, but it gets old. Specially when I'm trying to feed my pleco a treat and the snails hijack the stuff. I hate those things. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31951	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Bachelor Nesting!

Mmm Aslan's has just built one of his own again, and i don't own a female...   Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31952	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substrates

Looks very fine. I haven't opened yet because I'm wondering if its not too pricey. It was 6 bucks for 5 lbs. This place only had small bags of it. Wonder where I can get it for less. I will also test buffer capacity just in case. Cheers Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:33:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about loaches and this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single hit on Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did find some happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth enough for your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:33:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31953	From: Alison	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Good decorative rocks and gravel....

Thanks, I found the websites useful. I might try the vinegar test on some sandstone and see if I have any other types of rock around here. I'm wanting to use gravel from my creek bed but if I remember correctly it has bits of coal in it. Hmm. I'll just have to keep looking, Thanks again! Alison --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Here are some pages I have in my favorites about rocks and aquariums. They > do have opposing opinions on some rocks so if you are considering one that > have opposing opinions, do a little more research. > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml > > http://www.uniquaria.com/index.php/articles/6-misc/21-aquarium-safe-rocks > > http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html > > Sandstone is OK on one list but not on the other. > > You could/should do the acid test on them before adding them to your tank to > determine how stable they are. Muriatic acid works best but white vinegar > will sometimes work but is a very weak acid and pickling vinegar is a > stronger acid than plain white but not nearly as strong as muriatic acid. > > Some limestone's are fine for certain fish that prefer harder water and some > sandstone may not be depending on if it contains any impurities. I believe > sandstone is rather porous so it could have who-knows-what inside all the > pores. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alison > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good decorative rocks and gravel.... > > I have done lots of searching and it seems to not be known whether or not > (solid not crumbly) sandstone is okay for aquatic use. There are some other > types of rock down in my creek, I'd like to know from reputable fish keepers > which rocks doesn't bother water quality. I checked the Indiana Geological > Survey Map and my area has mostly shale, sandstone, limestone and coal, it > explains the different layers in which they're in and stuff, pretty cool. > All I know for sure is that limestone and coal isn't good. > My plan was to collect gravel and rock from the creek here at my house, but > I'm not sure now. > Thanks! > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:51:17 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31954	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substrates

When I was looking around, I saw they sold either 5 lb. bags or a 30 lb. box and the comments were like yours.. that the 5 lb bags were expensive. I seem to recall prices around 17-20 dollars for the 30 lb box. http://store.seacorals.net/esaqsawhaqsu1.html (17.99 for 30 lbs on this site which showed up first in my Google search for 'estes aqua sand' and was mentioned on some of the forums as being the best price and they have the 5 lb bag for 3.49) Here is one of the threads I read earlier. http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58647 Besides the Estes brand, that thread also mentioned this one.. which is even a lower cost for 30 lbs. http://www.pets-warehouse.com/vpasp/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes <http://www.pets-warehouse.com/vpasp/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes&sppp =16> &sppp=16 although one person said they were not happy with it... but I'd never make up my mind from just one forum post unless I knew the poster to be an informed type person. If the pets-warehouse link breaks, just to their main site and search - aqua sand - and you'll find the page with all of the various colors shown.. all for 12.11 per 30 lbs. Another search found that ThatPetPlace also sells the aqua terra brand for around 15.00 for a 25 lb box https://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4354/product.web You might want to call around to several LFS and pet stores to see if anyone else has the 30 lb box. I checked PetsMart.com and DrsFosterSmith.com and neither of them have it.. at least not on a search for estes sand or just estes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substrates Looks very fine. I haven't opened yet because I'm wondering if its not too pricey. It was 6 bucks for 5 lbs. This place only had small bags of it. Wonder where I can get it for less. I will also test buffer capacity just in case. Cheers Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:33:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about loaches and this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single hit on Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did find some happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth enough for your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ > > _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is > what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31955	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: tank temp

Lenny I changed the temp to 75 she seems to like it....I only have 1 goldfish (a comet) as a beginner I did 5 she is the only one I have.....I change the water every week I so a 10% change....I have had her since July/August and she has REALLY grown...We bought her that 2 piece castle and she won't go thru any of the entrances because she has grown so much................so I think this weekend we want to find some cool rocks so we can make bigger tunnels for her..Janis In a message dated 10/27/2008 4:48:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Goldfish should be fine at 73F. Tell us more. You say it's 73.4 now.. did you recently change this? If yes, by how much and how fast? What other water parameters do you have tests for? Give us those numbers also. How many goldfish in the 46G and how long have you had them... and your experience level? Are they fancy goldfish or long-bodied goldfish? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:04 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] tank temp Can anyone tell me what temp for a 46 gal freshwater tank.....Its 73.4 now and my gold fish isn't as active... Thanks Janis _____ avast! Antivirus <_http://www.avast.htt_ (http://www.avast.com/) > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 3:39:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31956	From: vitaebat	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration?

Just a thought that came to me today.. is it possible to over filtrate? Like say for example I have a 10 gallon tank and I buy a canister filter rated for a 40 gallon- yes it's overboard but will it adversely effect the chemistry or biological aspect of the 10 gallon tank? The reason I ask is because I downgraded from a 20 gallon to a 10 gallon.. for space and other reasons.. and I have a 40 gallon rated canister filter on the 20 gallon. The canister filter has been running on the 20 gallon for about 6 months, still running now on the 20 gallon but the tank is empty. I was thinking maybe in order to help cycle the 10 gallon I could switch the canister filter to it and boost a cycle.. but I'd like to keep it there as to not waste a perfectly good canister filter. What do you guys think?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31957	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

Yes.I am jealous.it's hard to find good boiled crawfish up here in Chicago. We do have a couple of good Cajun restaurants here, Heaven on Seven and Papadeux's. Heaven on Seven has a crawfish festival, but it is super expensive.$30 for 1 lbs of crawfish.I could easily eat several hehehe. I would love to find a source of live crawfish here and hold a boil of my own. Their gumbo is pretty good despite not using okra (not sure why they don't.might be a Creole thing since the chef is from NO) Heaven is definitely on the Creole side of Cajun. Papadeux's has excellent boudan.only place I have found up north that has boudan. They are definitely 100% Cajun. I used to go to this place in either Welsh or Jennings that had the best.Richards (pronounce ree-shards for those not familiar with Cajuns) if I remember correctly. My ex-wife's family was part of the original settlers and she grew up in the town named after her family (Lebleu Settlement). I was totally spoiled the last few months before we moved to Chicago (where I am originally from). Every weekend for a few months, we had a crawfish boil and barbeque (she has family that owns crawfish farms) Boiled crawfish and blue crabs, BBQ's alligator, chicken, pork, and beef.mmm (take that PETA hehehe) Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL I bet you miss dem mudbug boils... sucking the heads and pinching the tails! I only went to a couple this past spring/summer due to being so busy with my biz. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL Hehe.I remember that.we used to make a joke out of it when I lived in Louisiana and had a crawfish boil hehehe. Eric _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:57:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31958	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration?

It depends on the fishes needs. I was reading about a stream type tank where they had the water turning over at 15 gallons per minute in a 100 loach tank gallon tank... that's 900 gallons per hour or 9X filtration. I've seen goldfish tanks with 10X filtration. For fish like a Hillstream Loach and fish like Zebra Danios and White Cloud Mountain Minnows, they can live in very fast running streams. Think about how fast the water is flowing in a brook or stream or the Mississippi River where the currents will knock you over if you aren't bracing for them. Of course, in those kinds of waterways, the fish also find rock eddies, etc. to hang out sometimes so they are in a pool of water rather than the fast moving stream section. I think an HOB rated for a 40G might be too much for a 10G but you should find out what the GPH - gallons per hour - rating is filter since I've seen some manufacturers overstate their filters abilities. Then there are some models like the AquaClear HOB's that have a knob for slowing down the flow rate from the fastest rate so it could be used on smaller tanks. Your better option would be to simply remove some or all of the filter media from the cycled filter and move it to the uncycled filter system. That will "instantly" cycle the smaller tank. If the canister has been running on an empty tank for very long, all of the good nitrifying bacteria will have died off since there was no source of ammonia. If the tank still had a lot of detritus in the gravel, then that would have continued to decay and put out ammonia so it could still be cycled. You could add a few drops of plain ammonia per 10G and test the water to see if it's cycling the ammonia to nitrate in 12 hours or so. If it is, then the filter is still cycling with live nitrifying bacteria. If it is, then just take a percentage or all of the filter media out of that filter or one of the other cycled filters and put this in the filter reservoir of the new system to make it instantly cycled. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vitaebat Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration? Just a thought that came to me today.. is it possible to over filtrate? Like say for example I have a 10 gallon tank and I buy a canister filter rated for a 40 gallon- yes it's overboard but will it adversely effect the chemistry or biological aspect of the 10 gallon tank? The reason I ask is because I downgraded from a 20 gallon to a 10 gallon.. for space and other reasons.. and I have a 40 gallon rated canister filter on the 20 gallon. The canister filter has been running on the 20 gallon for about 6 months, still running now on the 20 gallon but the tank is empty. I was thinking maybe in order to help cycle the 10 gallon I could switch the canister filter to it and boost a cycle.. but I'd like to keep it there as to not waste a perfectly good canister filter. What do you guys think? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 8:50:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

There are several companies down here that will overnight live crawfish during season. I think they aren't doing it any longer but this page shows they will still overnight boiled crawfish. http://www.lacrawfish.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD <http://www.lacrawfish.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=L C&Category_Code=LC> &Product_Code=LC&Category_Code=LC If the link breaks, just go to http://www.lacrawfish.com and you'll see the links on the left for live and boiled crawfish... as well as many other Coon-Ass, Cajun and N'Awlins products. Do a Google for 'live crawfish shipping' and you'll find other sources. Oops.. maybe I shouldn't have posted this info... the PETA-people might be monitoring this thread and now they might start picketing our local places... heck, this time of the year, we might have to have a PETA-people Boil, since crawfish are out of season... so, you think them PETA-people will taste like chicken? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL Yes.I am jealous.it's hard to find good boiled crawfish up here in Chicago. We do have a couple of good Cajun restaurants here, Heaven on Seven and Papadeux's. Heaven on Seven has a crawfish festival, but it is super expensive.$30 for 1 lbs of crawfish.I could easily eat several hehehe. I would love to find a source of live crawfish here and hold a boil of my own. Their gumbo is pretty good despite not using okra (not sure why they don't.might be a Creole thing since the chef is from NO) Heaven is definitely on the Creole side of Cajun. Papadeux's has excellent boudan.only place I have found up north that has boudan. They are definitely 100% Cajun. I used to go to this place in either Welsh or Jennings that had the best.Richards (pronounce ree-shards for those not familiar with Cajuns) if I remember correctly. My ex-wife's family was part of the original settlers and she grew up in the town named after her family (Lebleu Settlement). I was totally spoiled the last few months before we moved to Chicago (where I am originally from). Every weekend for a few months, we had a crawfish boil and barbeque (she has family that owns crawfish farms) Boiled crawfish and blue crabs, BBQ's alligator, chicken, pork, and beef.mmm (take that PETA hehehe) Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL I bet you miss dem mudbug boils... sucking the heads and pinching the tails! I only went to a couple this past spring/summer due to being so busy with my biz. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL Hehe.I remember that.we used to make a joke out of it when I lived in Louisiana and had a crawfish boil hehehe. Eric _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 8:57:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31960	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

The Estes brand has been around for a long time. I cannot say, however, when they started to sell sand, but it was sometime ago. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 5:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about loaches and this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single hit on Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did find some happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth enough for your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_compl ete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_comp lete _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_comp lete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_comp lete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_comp lete > > _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31961	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction

How many entries did you have in the show? The open show at the catfish Convention the other week had 190 registered entries, but I do not know what the final count was \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction Hi Donna, Good to hear (directly) from you. The show and auction went well, as it always does; too bad you had to miss it. Lots of Rift Lake Cichlids in the auction, if you would have needed something. Lots of other bags of auction fish as well -- a large variety of stuff. Don't know how many bags in all, but there were a good number of them, keeping us there until after 6PM last night. One thing I'd like to mention, as I know you have this fish, is that there must have been nearly a million bags of Yellow Labs available at the auction. Either everyone is breeding them, or one person is really pumping them out. Would have replied here last night but I was too beat from a few real long days, not to mention that I had show fish and auction fish to put away when I got home. The show could have been larger (I've seen larger in the past), but all-in-all, there was a good representation of fish in all classes. A highlight of the show (at least for me) was that the first president of the NJAS showed up and I got the chance to meet him and to have a short chat with him. The club was founded in April 1954 (not 1953 as everyone there insists on believing), so its 54 years old this year. It was an honor meeting the first president, Joseph (Joe) F. Epper, who is now 82 years old -- he had to be 28 when the club first started. In answer to one of my questions to him, he still has fish (3 Angelfish). I guess keeping fish keeps you going, as he looked well; I had never met him before this but was glad I finally did so. Undoubtedly, Hank will remember him, being an original member of the club back then. You missed a good show, but I know if you could have made it, you would have. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Ray, how was it? I was not able to attend. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31962	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

Lenny, You know, I just saw something about a study that had been done on the schooling/shoaling of different species together. Apparently, different species will shoal/school together under certain circumstances, which have to do with numbers. If there is interest, I'll see if I can find a reference to it for those who would like to pursue it further. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach It's probably best to have a shoal of a single species but if yours are shoaling together and clowning around together, then you should be OK. Often, a fish from a different species will take up with and school with a different species. It's probably not the best thing but it's better than them being scared and hiding and stressed all the time. Since your three are active and not hiding all the time, then they are probably doing fine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Is it discouraged to mix loach breeds? I have 2 clowns and a border loach. they get along great like they are family. they all play together. I was just curious if in general they may not get along and possibly fight. --Dave On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > They have been known to do it. Loaches do not always crunch the shells > but rather suck the snail out of the shell. This is why some trap-door > snails have had some success in living with loaches. MTS do not have > trap doors so eventually the loaches would have some success. > > Remember that Clown Loaches get REALLY BIG (over 12" and even over > 16") and need to be kept in shoals of three or more (five or more is > better) so a BIG tank is needed... 6' long, 100G+. > > What size tank were you planning? > > MTS snails are not prolific breeders like some other snails so if you > have a problem with a lot of MTS, it means you have too much detritus > in your substrate and need to start vacuuming your gravel better. > Personally, I like MTS in my tanks as they are a good little clean up > crew and do not breed as fast so they are a good bellwether to > "remind" you that you might be overfeeding or under cleaning. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > Hi, > Can Clown Loaches eat Malaysean Trumpet Snails? Their shell looks > really hard! > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 5:14:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31963	From: harry perry	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: TOO much filtration?

I always overfilter my tanks. I've been doing it for years. Doesn't seem to hurt a thing. I'll use a filter rated for a 20 or 30 gal. on a ten gallon tank etc.My tanks (6) are heavily planted to the point where if I lose a fish I might not notice immediately. However I use HOB filters exclusively. I want the surface agitation because I don't use an air stone. Harry  --- On Mon, 10/27/08, vitaebat <vitae@...> wrote: From: vitaebat <vitae@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 8:52 PM Just a thought that came to me today.. is it possible to over filtrate? Like say for example I have a 10 gallon tank and I buy a canister filter rated for a 40 gallon- yes it's overboard but will it adversely effect the chemistry or biological aspect of the 10 gallon tank? The reason I ask is because I downgraded from a 20 gallon to a 10 gallon.. for space and other reasons.. and I have a 40 gallon rated canister filter on the 20 gallon. The canister filter has been running on the 20 gallon for about 6 months, still running now on the 20 gallon but the tank is empty. I was thinking maybe in order to help cycle the 10 gallon I could switch the canister filter to it and boost a cycle.. but I'd like to keep it there as to not waste a perfectly good canister filter. What do you guys think? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31964	From: William	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: plants for shrimp

What kind of plants do freshwater shrimp like? I have a 120gal. tank and want to add some shrimp (like ghost shrimp and plants. i have guppys, tetras, platys in the tank. i am looking for two def. Plants about the size of 8" tall by 4" wide and a plant around 4" tall by 4" wide. If anyone can help me it would realy help me. I would really like some help THANK YOU ALL

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31965	From: vitaebat	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration?

Well, I plan on having the tank fully loaded with plants and neon tetras, with a ton of driftwood as well. I can test the rate of flow and see how much it impacts the tank in the next few days. The canister filter is a Fluval 250 ...I'm pretty sure. If the flow is too strong I can find a way to lessen it, one way or another. Also the tank is emptied recently, it's still got plenty of junk in the substrate to keep it cycled for a while.. hopefully enough time to figure out if I want to use it on the 10g or sell it :) Here is a picture of what I have it as now http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/Vitae/1galoct08005.jpg I'm using an AquaClear 20gal HOB and a temporary heater (rated for a 20 gallon-it's keeping a constant 78 degree temp but I'll change it soon) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It depends on the fishes needs. > > I was reading about a stream type tank where they had the water turning over > at 15 gallons per minute in a 100 loach tank gallon tank... that's 900 > gallons per hour or 9X filtration. I've seen goldfish tanks with 10X > filtration. For fish like a Hillstream Loach and fish like Zebra Danios and > White Cloud Mountain Minnows, they can live in very fast running streams. > Think about how fast the water is flowing in a brook or stream or the > Mississippi River where the currents will knock you over if you aren't > bracing for them. Of course, in those kinds of waterways, the fish also > find rock eddies, etc. to hang out sometimes so they are in a pool of water > rather than the fast moving stream section. > > I think an HOB rated for a 40G might be too much for a 10G but you should > find out what the GPH - gallons per hour - rating is filter since I've seen > some manufacturers overstate their filters abilities. Then there are some > models like the AquaClear HOB's that have a knob for slowing down the flow > rate from the fastest rate so it could be used on smaller tanks. > > Your better option would be to simply remove some or all of the filter media > from the cycled filter and move it to the uncycled filter system. That will > "instantly" cycle the smaller tank. > > If the canister has been running on an empty tank for very long, all of the > good nitrifying bacteria will have died off since there was no source of > ammonia. If the tank still had a lot of detritus in the gravel, then that > would have continued to decay and put out ammonia so it could still be > cycled. You could add a few drops of plain ammonia per 10G and test the > water to see if it's cycling the ammonia to nitrate in 12 hours or so. If > it is, then the filter is still cycling with live nitrifying bacteria. If > it is, then just take a percentage or all of the filter media out of that > filter or one of the other cycled filters and put this in the filter > reservoir of the new system to make it instantly cycled. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of vitaebat > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration? > > Just a thought that came to me today.. is it possible to over filtrate? > Like say for example I have a 10 gallon tank and I buy a canister filter > rated for a 40 gallon- yes it's overboard but will it adversely effect the > chemistry or biological aspect of the 10 gallon tank? > > The reason I ask is because I downgraded from a 20 gallon to a 10 gallon.. > for space and other reasons.. and I have a 40 gallon rated canister filter > on the 20 gallon. > The canister filter has been running on the 20 gallon for about 6 months, > still running now on the 20 gallon but the tank is empty. > I was thinking maybe in order to help cycle the 10 gallon I could switch the > canister filter to it and boost a cycle.. but I'd like to keep it there as > to not waste a perfectly good canister filter. > > What do you guys think? > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 8:50:06 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31966	From: rcdtrc	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: piranhas, fry

my piranhas have mated 3 or 4 times within this month, each time i see lots of eggs then they seem to dissapear and i only see a few maturing and so far i only have like 10 fry i have no idea why they keep on mating and why so few survive i took out all the other fish in the tank that coul have eaten the eggs is there a way to effectively decrease the mortality rate?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31967	From: harry perry	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: piranhas, fry/Try This

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/predatory/breedingpiranha.php Harry --- On Tue, 10/28/08, rcdtrc <rcdtrc@...> wrote: From: rcdtrc <rcdtrc@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] piranhas, fry To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 12:41 AM my piranhas have mated 3 or 4 times within this month, each time i see lots of eggs then they seem to dissapear and i only see a few maturing and so far i only have like 10 fry i have no idea why they keep on mating and why so few survive i took out all the other fish in the tank that coul have eaten the eggs is there a way to effectively decrease the mortality rate? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31968	From: Carolyn Morse	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: TOO much filtration?

I have always over filtered water in my aquariums. I have two Aqua Fresh filters in my the gal they are for 100 gal tank. --- On Mon, 10/27/08, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TOO much filtration? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 9:18 PM > I always overfilter my tanks. I've been doing it for > years. Doesn't seem to hurt a thing. > > I'll use a filter rated for a 20 or 30 gal. on a ten > gallon tank etc.My tanks (6) are heavily planted to the > point where if I lose a fish I might not notice immediately. > > > However I use HOB filters exclusively. I want the surface > agitation because I don't use an air stone. > > Harry  > > --- On Mon, 10/27/08, vitaebat <vitae@...> > wrote: > From: vitaebat <vitae@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Is there such a thing as TOO much > filtration? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought that came to me today.. is it > possible to over filtrate? > > Like say for example I have a 10 gallon tank and I buy a > canister > > filter rated for a 40 gallon- yes it's overboard but > will it adversely > > effect the chemistry or biological aspect of the 10 gallon > tank? > > > > The reason I ask is because I downgraded from a 20 gallon > to a 10 > > gallon.. for space and other reasons.. and I have a 40 > gallon rated > > canister filter on the 20 gallon. > > The canister filter has been running on the 20 gallon for > about 6 > > months, still running now on the 20 gallon but the tank is > empty. > > I was thinking maybe in order to help cycle the 10 gallon I > could > > switch the canister filter to it and boost a cycle.. but > I'd like to > > keep it there as to not waste a perfectly good canister > filter. > > > > What do you guys think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31969	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess

When you add the 1/8th teaspoon, what is your ammonia test in ppm's? If you are getting it up to 4-5ppm and it's cycling the ammonia and subsequent nitrites to nitrates in 12 hours or so, then you will be fully cycled for a full but not overstocked bioload of juvenile fish. If you are going to overstock the tank with adult sized fish, then you should increase the ammonia dosage but spread out every six hours so you do not raise the ammonia to over 4-5 ppm at any one time. For example, if you raise it to 4-5ppm and it completes the cycle in 12 hours. Then start adding that initial dose at first and then at the six hour mark, add 1/2 dose and continue to do that every six hours. This way, instead of building up a nitrifying bacteria colony capable of handling 4-5ppm per day or every 12 hours, you will be building up an even larger colony capable of handling 8-10ppm of ammonia per 12 hours or per day. Remember that if you have your tanks overstocked, you will need to do much more frequent tank and filter maintenance, including 2 or 3 PWC's per week, depending on the bioload you try to squeeze into a tank. It's best to NOT overstock for obvious reasons such as the constant health issues and maintenance issues that you WILL have to deal with in an overstocked tank. The key, during the fishless cycling, is also monitoring your KH levels or doing PWC's daily, as the cycle starts to move along, to keep your KH levels at a high enough level (or dosing with Baking Soda.. if needed). If your KH levels get too low, the pH will drop and the fishless cycle will stall until you get the KH levels back up a little. As far as compatibility, check out the profiles for each of your fish species on http://fish.mongabay.com The profiles will tell you the preferred pH, temp, GH and KH ranges and also a section on Suggested Companions. There are always exceptions to the suggested water parameters (since fish can usually acclimate to a wide range of water parameters) and there are exceptions to the companions where fish that should get along, don't, or fish that shouldn't get along, do, but they will give you a good guideline. OK.. I know I should make folks do a little of their own research but here's what I know and what I found for you. The platys and mollies being livebearers and preferring harder water and sometimes with the addition of a little salt may be different from the preferred parameters for your other fish. What kind of Otos do you have? There are several common species. Here is the profile for Otocinclus affinis - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html and you'll see their water chemistry preferences and you'll also see that the livebearers are NOT on the suggested companion list but the tetra is listed.. mainly since they prefer softer water and slightly acidic (lower pH). Check out the pictures link on this profile to see if this is the species you have. Here is a larger list of Otos - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/index.php?genus_search_type=contains <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/index.php?genus_search_type=contains&g enus=otocinclus&species_search_type=is&species=&task=Search> &genus=otocinclus&species_search_type=is&species=&task=Search (Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/ and in the Genus search field, type in - contains - otocinclus - and that will bring up the list of Oto profiles on Planet Catfish. Here is the profile for Neon Tetras - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Paracheirodon_innesi.html and you'll see their water chemistry is wide ranging and that livebearers are listed in their suggested companion section once the tetras have been acclimated to the harder water and higher pH. Of course, when this profile was written, neon tetras were a hardier species. Since then, there have been many problems in the commercial breeding of neon's so they are not nearly as hardy nowadays and there are regular reports of them dying for no known reason for new fish keepers. At one time they were on the top of the list for newbie's. Here is the profile for Livebearers - http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm Go to my blog and read the article on "Hailey's 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions" for more ideas on how you can stock up the 10G tanks. Now.. start reading! I'll give you a pop quiz in two days. LOL (just kidding, of course) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? Thanks Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 1:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31970	From: N Taweel	Date: 10/27/2008
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

The boiling method doesn't seem to be practical at all , plus I HATE boiling gravel. I tried a method that worked very well a couple of years ago, but I almost had to start the tank over, I rinsed everything with a concentrated salt solution (gravel, filters, decorations, glass), it killed even the snail eggs, and probably the bacteria. The snail I had was ugly! Dark brown, rounded, small, and it went into everything, now it's all gone. I'm not bothered by the MTS, at least they look nice, and didn't take the tank over , yet! Noura Syria [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31971	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL

Rofl.if not, the alligators will like them, they are like Mikey.they'll eat anything hehehe. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL There are several companies down here that will overnight live crawfish during season. I think they aren't doing it any longer but this page shows they will still overnight boiled crawfish. http://www.lacrawfi <http://www.lacrawfish.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD> sh.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD <http://www.lacrawfi <http://www.lacrawfish.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=L > sh.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=L C&Category_Code=LC> &Product_Code=LC&Category_Code=LC If the link breaks, just go to http://www.lacrawfi <http://www.lacrawfish.com> sh.com and you'll see the links on the left for live and boiled crawfish... as well as many other Coon-Ass, Cajun and N'Awlins products. Do a Google for 'live crawfish shipping' and you'll find other sources. Oops.. maybe I shouldn't have posted this info... the PETA-people might be monitoring this thread and now they might start picketing our local places... heck, this time of the year, we might have to have a PETA-people Boil, since crawfish are out of season... so, you think them PETA-people will taste like chicken? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL Yes.I am jealous.it's hard to find good boiled crawfish up here in Chicago. We do have a couple of good Cajun restaurants here, Heaven on Seven and Papadeux's. Heaven on Seven has a crawfish festival, but it is super expensive.$30 for 1 lbs of crawfish.I could easily eat several hehehe. I would love to find a source of live crawfish here and hold a boil of my own. Their gumbo is pretty good despite not using okra (not sure why they don't.might be a Creole thing since the chef is from NO) Heaven is definitely on the Creole side of Cajun. Papadeux's has excellent boudan.only place I have found up north that has boudan. They are definitely 100% Cajun. I used to go to this place in either Welsh or Jennings that had the best.Richards (pronounce ree-shards for those not familiar with Cajuns) if I remember correctly. My ex-wife's family was part of the original settlers and she grew up in the town named after her family (Lebleu Settlement). I was totally spoiled the last few months before we moved to Chicago (where I am originally from). Every weekend for a few months, we had a crawfish boil and barbeque (she has family that owns crawfish farms) Boiled crawfish and blue crabs, BBQ's alligator, chicken, pork, and beef.mmm (take that PETA hehehe) Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL I bet you miss dem mudbug boils... sucking the heads and pinching the tails! I only went to a couple this past spring/summer due to being so busy with my biz. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sea Kittens - by PETA - God, Help Us All! LOL Hehe.I remember that.we used to make a joke out of it when I lived in Louisiana and had a crawfish boil hehehe. Eric _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 8:57:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31972	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration?

What you need to watch for is the amount of water flow through the aquarium as compared to the fish you have in the aquarium. If you are keeping fish like the gouramis, betas, puffers, of fancy fish like the highly modified forms of goldfish, you do not want a high water flow, since these fish come from slow moving, or even stagnant, waters, or have a body shape that will make it difficult for them to maintain a position in fast moving water. On the other hand, if you have fish like sucker mouths, or streamlined bodies. That mainly live is faster, more highly oxygenated waters, the more flow, to a point, you can provide, the better they will do. The actual filtering capability is not a real issue here, so long as it removes the debris that may be found in the water column (mechanical), and can support the bacteria needed for the cycle (biological). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vitaebat Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Is there such a thing as TOO much filtration? Just a thought that came to me today.. is it possible to over filtrate? Like say for example I have a 10 gallon tank and I buy a canister filter rated for a 40 gallon- yes it's overboard but will it adversely effect the chemistry or biological aspect of the 10 gallon tank? The reason I ask is because I downgraded from a 20 gallon to a 10 gallon.. for space and other reasons.. and I have a 40 gallon rated canister filter on the 20 gallon. The canister filter has been running on the 20 gallon for about 6 months, still running now on the 20 gallon but the tank is empty. I was thinking maybe in order to help cycle the 10 gallon I could switch the canister filter to it and boost a cycle.. but I'd like to keep it there as to not waste a perfectly good canister filter. What do you guys think?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31973	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substrates

Wow Lenny!! You're the man! Thank you so much for that research! Well from what I gather from the threads, its inert, meaning it won't change my ph, right? That's great! Now I'm thinking to go black instead of red maybe? Decisions, decisions! I'm happy to know I got a good product. Thank you sooooo much for your help! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:19:18 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substrates When I was looking around, I saw they sold either 5 lb. bags or a 30 lb. box and the comments were like yours.. that the 5 lb bags were expensive. I seem to recall prices around 17-20 dollars for the 30 lb box. http://store.seacorals.net/esaqsawhaqsu1.html (17.99 for 30 lbs on this site which showed up first in my Google search for 'estes aqua sand' and was mentioned on some of the forums as being the best price and they have the 5 lb bag for 3.49) Here is one of the threads I read earlier. http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58647 Besides the Estes brand, that thread also mentioned this one.. which is even a lower cost for 30 lbs. http://www.pets-warehouse.com/vpasp/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes <http://www.pets-warehouse.com/vpasp/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes&sppp =16> &sppp=16 although one person said they were not happy with it... but I'd never make up my mind from just one forum post unless I knew the poster to be an informed type person. If the pets-warehouse link breaks, just to their main site and search - aqua sand - and you'll find the page with all of the various colors shown.. all for 12.11 per 30 lbs. Another search found that ThatPetPlace also sells the aqua terra brand for around 15.00 for a 25 lb box https://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4354/product.web You might want to call around to several LFS and pet stores to see if anyone else has the 30 lb box. I checked PetsMart.com and DrsFosterSmith.com and neither of them have it.. at least not on a search for estes sand or just estes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substrates Looks very fine. I haven't opened yet because I'm wondering if its not too pricey. It was 6 bucks for 5 lbs. This place only had small bags of it. Wonder where I can get it for less. I will also test buffer capacity just in case. Cheers Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:33:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about loaches and this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single hit on Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did find some happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth enough for your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ > > _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is > what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 7:19:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31974	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Glass Catfish won't eat

Hey Gang, About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31975	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat

I've killed my share of those in my childhood. I understand they are easy to care for but only if they have exactly the right situation. I think they NEED to be in a group of their own with peaceful (or no) tankmates. Doesn't Lenny have a link for these, LOL? Seems like he has one for everything else, thank goodness. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Hey Gang, About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31976	From: hank voss	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > Steve: Ive been retired for 25 yrs now. I worked for the phone co.and did a lot of phone work in their plant in Lyndhurst NJ so they have been around for atleast 30yrs.The price was always reasonable. Regards Hank > The Estes brand has been around for a long time. I cannot say, however, > when they started to sell sand, but it was sometime ago. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 5:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about loaches > and > this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single > hit on > Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did find > some > happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. > > You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth enough for > your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bubuci@... > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors > and > is nice. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has > another > brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more > info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. > > Cheers, > Tania > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I > had > read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find > a > suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock > collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock > collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I > just > thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the > pillow > case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand > between > your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. > Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case > anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took > place) > and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels > smooth > enough. > > Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of > the > substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since > in > the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy > bottoms > to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and > bacterial > issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the > problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on > a > commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to > help > take some of the edges off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Lenny! > > On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down > in > a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? > > I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not > the > same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, > maybe > that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7- 7.4 or > so > But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of > buffering > sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go > for > the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored > pea > pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or > something unusual like that. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect > the > pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added > into > or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the > CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. > > In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any > of > the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black > Cichlid > Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft > bellied > fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my > reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would > be > to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick > sealable > pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes > dryer > (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a > tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work > better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either > one > would still round the edges. > > I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) > for > a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. > http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > and this > more > general page about tank setups > http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with > Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this > River-like > water movement system... > http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > for fish > like > the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. > > Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for > burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete > Cichlid > Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > and > then on the FAQ page > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_com pl > ete_ > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mp > lete > _> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mp > lete > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mp > lete > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mp > lete > > > > _> > sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and > what > pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a > bad > thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) > hard > water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and > run > peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't > need/want it. > > This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a > section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing > with > loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand > that > causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water > quality. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > (scroll > down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled > "Barbel > Erosion") > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Lenny! > > I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 > tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a > heated > tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in > Miami > so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are > there > water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand > may > not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the > Carib > sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. > They > have 2 types. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all > of > the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can > get > the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most > plants > although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the > sides > of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing > a > structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. > > This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. > Something like Eco-complete > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > which has a > black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > if > you > are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. > > I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked > on > them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black > sand > but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration > systems. > > This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is > what > you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us > know... > but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get > torn > up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black > blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to > point it out in my message, oops, sorry. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: FW Sand Substates > > Hey Gang! > > I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have > Burrowers > so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. > > I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to > get? > Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? > > Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too > pricey > or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and > good > for this too. > > Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some > fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with > sand > as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay > pots > and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good > idea? > > How much per gallon of tank to get? > > Thanks in advance! :D > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31977	From: greychildren	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

not enough space in my 1 bedroom house. what to do what to do. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Well sounds like a problem to me. You don't have enough tanks. > > Pam > 2-55g > 2-29g > 1-20g > 1-15g > 4-10g > 1-2 1/2g and one not set up > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: greychildren@...: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:35:05 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby > > > > I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i wantmore.Is it just me or am i going over board?i want a ciclid tank..I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week atmy LFS.Should i get help?..lol > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31978	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: different Rainbows Shoaling

Lenny/Steve+ Gang! On Steve's note of different species shoaling, do you think Boesemanis will shoal will Irani Rainbows? I read once yes, but guy at LFS said no. He said neither species would show their vivid color while in the others presence because they feel threatened. He only has Iranis at home, did not have the two together at the store either, but not for reasons of aggression, they are peaceful. I ask because I love both and wouldve loved a shoal of the two types mixed, but only if they would show off their vivid colors for me. Otherwise ill stick to one type. Just wondering if anyone has experience. I actually brought 3 Boesemanis home yesterday :D - so excited, they are juvys so they are not too vivid yet. They are supposed to get brighter with age, when happy(like not crowded into LFS tank) and when females are present. Mine only have a yellowish sheen to them right now. Wonder how long before they get the blue and get vivid. Hmmmm.....can you tell I'm impatient? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:33:08 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Lenny, You know, I just saw something about a study that had been done on the schooling/shoaling of different species together. Apparently, different species will shoal/school together under certain circumstances, which have to do with numbers. If there is interest, I'll see if I can find a reference to it for those who would like to pursue it further. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach It's probably best to have a shoal of a single species but if yours are shoaling together and clowning around together, then you should be OK. Often, a fish from a different species will take up with and school with a different species. It's probably not the best thing but it's better than them being scared and hiding and stressed all the time. Since your three are active and not hiding all the time, then they are probably doing fine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Is it discouraged to mix loach breeds? I have 2 clowns and a border loach. they get along great like they are family. they all play together. I was just curious if in general they may not get along and possibly fight. --Dave On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > They have been known to do it. Loaches do not always crunch the shells > but rather suck the snail out of the shell. This is why some trap-door > snails have had some success in living with loaches. MTS do not have > trap doors so eventually the loaches would have some success. > > Remember that Clown Loaches get REALLY BIG (over 12" and even over > 16") and need to be kept in shoals of three or more (five or more is > better) so a BIG tank is needed... 6' long, 100G+. > > What size tank were you planning? > > MTS snails are not prolific breeders like some other snails so if you > have a problem with a lot of MTS, it means you have too much detritus > in your substrate and need to start vacuuming your gravel better. > Personally, I like MTS in my tanks as they are a good little clean up > crew and do not breed as fast so they are a good bellwether to > "remind" you that you might be overfeeding or under cleaning. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > Hi, > Can Clown Loaches eat Malaysean Trumpet Snails? Their shell looks > really hard! > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 5:14:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31979	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Lenny! LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem, indecisiveness! Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time where else to find it so I guess that influenced my choice. But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the black again! Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I thought you were looking for black sand? LOL I know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its a pretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:41:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31980	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow

Jim! Thanks for your reply. How big/old are your pair? Aren't the supposed to be bicolor? I got 3 juvies and they all look pale yellow to me. What do your like to eat? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Springer,James C." <james.springer@...> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:54:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Boesemani Rainbow > From: bubuci@... > . . . The will probably eat my guppies right? Tania, I have two rainbows. I had one to start and he swam with my larger (dwarf) gourami but he (the gourami) passed. But then the rainbow pretty much started swimming with anyone that passed by including a slightly smaller (honey red) Gourami and even the yo-yo loaches at times. Finally decided to get him a swimming mate which I placed in quarantine. It just so happened I had a guppy in the 5 gal quarantine that was recovering from fin-rot. Never bothered the guppy and seemed kind of buddy-buddy. Now both rainbows are in the 75 (as well as the guppy, the barb wouldn't leave in alone in the 10 gal.) I've never had any problems with these guys so far other than being big eaters. I echo what I read in someone else's reply; one of my rainbows are yellow, the other orange ... I don't really see the colors change per se, but rather they will intensify and diminish depending on how the light hits them. Jim E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat

Depending on the species... there are several that use the name Glass Catfish so you should properly ID yours... but this profile on Mongabay which has a couple of varieties profiles shows that the African Glass Catfish (Parailia congica - subject to have been changed) http://fish.mongabay.com/schilbeidae.htm should be fed live foods at least 1-2 times a week. Check out the Picture links for each catfish and see if you have one of these two and also check out the Food sections on preferred food items. Brine shrimp are listed as one of the live foods but also things like Insect Larvae and Tubifex. You may have to feed them these foods until you can wean them onto commercial food items. As a reminder to others... it's always a good idea to research fish and their particular needs before buying them. At least you didn't get stuck with a giant fish. Both of the ones listed only grow to around 3". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Hey Gang, About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:09:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31982	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat

Yep... already provided. LOL It's not me, it's websites like Mongabay and many of the other GREAT websites out there that have already done the work. I just use Google most of the time and scan the first page for recognized reliable website links, or for the common websites that I go to like Mongabay, PlanetCatfish, PlecoFanatics, etc., I use their search page. For most profiles on fish, I just type in the common name of the fish followed by 'mongabay', so a Google of 'glass catfish mongabay' quickly found the profile page for them... it was the top hit returned. I also have thousands of links to good articles, etc., in my IE Favorites Folder. I'm a reasonably organized person, having owned my own biz for 20 years, so over the years, as I come across a good article that I found for me or others, I'll save the link in my - Aquarium - favorites folder which also has sub and sub-sub folders for the various categories from "Acclimating Fish" to "UGF Filters" and everything in between, so I can quickly find links to my favorite articles when needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat I've killed my share of those in my childhood. I understand they are easy to care for but only if they have exactly the right situation. I think they NEED to be in a group of their own with peaceful (or no) tankmates. Doesn't Lenny have a link for these, LOL? Seems like he has one for everything else, thank goodness. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Hey Gang, About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:19:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Are they the same folks that made Estes rocket kits back in the 60's? I remember building and launching various Estes rockets back then as a kid. Probably not.. I just did a Google and see http://www.estesrockets.com/categories.php?cat=starter for Estes Industries, is now located in CO. I'm glad to see they are still around. I kind of thought they would have closed up shop due to litigation since their rocket engines were basically like small sticks of dynamite. More than once, I had launch failures that led to a nice little explosion of one of my rockets. Still have all my fingers and toes though. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > Steve: Ive been retired for 25 yrs now. I worked for the phone co.and did a lot of phone work in their plant in Lyndhurst NJ so they have been around for atleast 30yrs.The price was always reasonable. Regards Hank > The Estes brand has been around for a long time. I cannot say, however, > when they started to sell sand, but it was sometime ago. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 5:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about loaches > and > this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single > hit on > Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did find > some > happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. > > You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth enough for > your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of bubuci@... > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors > and > is nice. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has > another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I > have more > info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. > > Cheers, > Tania > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I > had > read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find > a > suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock > collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock > collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I > just > thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the > pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the > sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an > hour or two. > Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case > anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took > place) > and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels > smooth enough. > > Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of > the > substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since > in > the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy > bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality > (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that > might be causing the > problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on > a > commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to > help > take some of the edges off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Lenny! > > On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down > in > a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? > > I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not > the > same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, > maybe > that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7- 7.4 or > so > But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of > buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I > may just go > for > the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored > pea > pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or > something unusual like that. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect > the > pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added > into > or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the > CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. > > In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any > of > the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black > Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for > soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last > paragraph of my > reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would > be > to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick > sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op > clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the > edges... or rent a > tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work > better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either > one > would still round the edges. > > I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) > for > a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. > http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > and this > more > general page about tank setups > http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with > Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this > River-like water movement system... > http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > for fish > like > the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. > > Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for > burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete > Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > and > then on the FAQ page > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_com <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_com> pl > ete_ > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co> > mp > lete > _> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co> > mp > lete > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co> > mp > lete > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co> > mp > lete > > > > _> > sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and > what > pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a > bad > thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) > hard > water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and > run > peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't > need/want it. > > This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a > section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing > with > loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand > that > causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water > quality. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled > "Barbel > Erosion") > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Lenny! > > I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 > tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a > heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, > I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it > may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm > afraid the cichlid sand > may > not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the > Carib > sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. > They > have 2 types. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all > of > the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can > get > the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most > plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes > in the > sides > of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing > a > structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. > > This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. > Something like Eco-complete > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > which has a > black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > if > you > are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. > > I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked > on > them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black > sand > but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration > systems. > > This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is > what > you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us > know... > but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get > torn > up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black > blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to > point it out in my message, oops, sorry. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: FW Sand Substates > > Hey Gang! > > I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have > Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water > parameters. > > I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to > get? > Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? > > Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too > pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most > common and > good > for this too. > > Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some > fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with > sand > as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay > pots > and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good > idea? > > How much per gallon of tank to get? > > Thanks in advance! :D > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 8:44:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:32:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

I'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on the cusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow the Zodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understand the entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it on being a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOL It's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would go with a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also good choices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have had various colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially once getting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates in those tanks. Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish and the tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that will definitely be something you want for long term. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem, indecisiveness! Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time where else to find it so I guess that influenced my choice. But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the black again! Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I thought you were looking for black sand? LOL I know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its a pretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > > > _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:39:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31985	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

Go vertical! That same wall space that holds a single tank can easily be set up with a rack system to hold 3-4 tanks. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby not enough space in my 1 bedroom house. what to do what to do. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Well sounds like a problem to me. You don't have enough tanks. > > Pam > 2-55g > 2-29g > 1-20g > 1-15g > 4-10g > 1-2 1/2g and one not set up > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: greychildren@...: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:35:05 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby > > > > I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i wantmore.Is it just me or am i going over board?i want a ciclid tank..I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week atmy LFS.Should i get help?..lol > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:40:39 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31986	From: Alina	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: My snails

How do you feed them corn and raisins? I did read on the applesnail.net site that they like pond (koi) pellets, even though they float, and they supposedly go to the water line and create some kind of a funnel to get the food to them (would love to witness that some day) but I have used the pellets and Gary is not prone to go up to the surface. I usually remove the food after awhile, so it doesn't muck up the tank. I use clips for lettuce and other veggies. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Gwydryn@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/27/2008 10:52:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > alambiet@... writes: > > I put some Boston lettuce in the tank last night and the new snail ate > about half the leaf...Gary, my first snail, pretty much ignores any > treats I add. He does eat algae wafers, which I add about twice a week. > > I'm just trying to figure out if anything is wrong with him. Sound > normal? > > Alina > > > Back when I had 3 apple snails I used to give them golden raisins, dried > cherries, corn and peas (frozen kind, thawed). Gary might need more carbs in his > diet? It's fun to watch a raisin dissappear down the hatch of a snail. They > DO eat a lot, Gary might just be weak. > Enid > > "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in > a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, > thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" > > **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, > no registration required and great graphics â€" check it out! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31987	From: Alina	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Florida cold!

It's finally cold in Florida. OMG it dropped to 50 last night in east-central Florida and it's going to get even colder tonight -- 44. Now, laugh all you want, but I spent the last two months keeping a close eye on my water temps, so it would stay at about 80 -- hard work and lots of frozen bottles of water. It was a pain. Woohoo. Heaters coming out tonight! It's the little things, ya'll. Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31988	From: friendtoallfish	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Kribensis chiclids

I have a 55 gallon with 1 danio, 4 austrailian rainbowfish and 2 bristlenose plecos. I am interested in some sort of chiclid that stays small and is not over aggerssive. Would Kribnesis work? If not what would? Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31989	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat

Oops... I just realized I forgot to include this other Mongabay profile page with another variety of "Glass Catfish" http://fish.mongabay.com/siluridae.htm This one grows to 5-6" but still prefers live foods until weaned onto processed foods. NOTE - When choosing any of the catfish or cichlid species, it's best to know their Latin names, not just common names, as the common names are often used for several different species. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Hey Gang, About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 6:02:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:47:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31990	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: My snails

I recently started feeding my goldfish frozen mixed vegetables that I got from one of my evacuating neighbors during Gustav. It has all of the typical cubes/chunks of frozen veggies. So far my goldfish eat them all but do not seem to like the carrot cubes as much as the other veggies... but they'll eat them eventually. I pinch the skins off of the green peas and lima beans but I let them eat the skin on the corn and green beans (I do cut the green beans into smaller pieces). So far, all of the frozen veggies, once blanched and cut to size (I just take a small amount and nuke them in a little storage bowl to blanch them) sink to the bottom so that's one option for you and Gary will speed on over to them eventually. One day, I'm going to find the online cartoon type video of a couple of snails "rushing" around. I don't know why I didn't save it in my favorites folder as I still think about chuckling at that video. A 1 lb. bag of frozen mixed veggies for a dollar or two will last a long time for the fish and snails. When I had my Mystery Snails, they would climb up to the water line and form that little funnel to catch some flakes swirling around. It was unique to see them do this and watch them munching on a flake. I never did the raisin thing but I'm sure raisins will sink... at least I think so. All I have around here are the chocolate covered raisins so I can't try them out. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My snails How do you feed them corn and raisins? I did read on the applesnail.net site that they like pond (koi) pellets, even though they float, and they supposedly go to the water line and create some kind of a funnel to get the food to them (would love to witness that some day) but I have used the pellets and Gary is not prone to go up to the surface. I usually remove the food after awhile, so it doesn't muck up the tank. I use clips for lettuce and other veggies. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Gwydryn@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/27/2008 10:52:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > alambiet@... writes: > > I put some Boston lettuce in the tank last night and the new snail ate > about half the leaf...Gary, my first snail, pretty much ignores any > treats I add. He does eat algae wafers, which I add about twice a week. > > I'm just trying to figure out if anything is wrong with him. Sound > normal? > > Alina > > > Back when I had 3 apple snails I used to give them golden raisins, dried > cherries, corn and peas (frozen kind, thawed). Gary might need more carbs in his > diet? It's fun to watch a raisin dissappear down the hatch of a snail. They > DO eat a lot, Gary might just be weak. > Enid > > "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in > a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, > thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:57:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31991	From: greychildren	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

i been thinking about that Lenny just the wife wont bodge --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Go vertical! That same wall space that holds a single tank can easily be > set up with a rack system to hold 3-4 tanks. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby > > not enough space in my 1 bedroom house. what to do what to do. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > pam andress <pamandress23@> wrote: > > > > > > Well sounds like a problem to me. You don't have enough tanks. > > > > Pam > > 2-55g > > 2-29g > > 1-20g > > 1-15g > > 4-10g > > 1-2 1/2g and one not set up > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: greychildren@: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:35:05 > +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby > > > > > > > > I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i > wantmore.Is it just me or am i going over board?i want a ciclid tank..I know > i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week atmy LFS.Should > i get help?..lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 > Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:40:39 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31992	From: greychildren	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Florida cold!

yea it was nice this morning --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > > It's finally cold in Florida. OMG it dropped to 50 last night in > east-central Florida and it's going to get even colder tonight -- 44. > > Now, laugh all you want, but I spent the last two months keeping a > close eye on my water temps, so it would stay at about 80 -- hard work > and lots of frozen bottles of water. It was a pain. > > Woohoo. Heaters coming out tonight! It's the little things, ya'll. > > Alina >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31993	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Boesemani Rainbow

> From: bubuci@... > Thanks for your reply. How big/old are your pair? Aren't the > supposed to be bicolor? I got 3 juvies and they all look pale > yellow to me. What do your like to eat? Tania, That's actually a good question but neglected to ask at the LFS for their approx age. The first rainbow is probably at his full size now (I haven't tried to measure but he looks somewhere between 5 and 6 inches), probably guess somewhere around 6 months and the new guy is probably a few months younger, still a little growing to do. I'd have to check my notes when I first got the yellow Boeseman, but I've had him at least 2 or 3 months. The orange guy is new, I believe about 3 weeks I've had him. And yes, they are bi-colored, but from the head to midsection is mainly gray and from there to the tail turns yellow (for the boeseman). The other rainbow I'm pretty sure isn't actually a boeseman, but his coloration is much brighter on his dorsal, caudal and anal fins (the orange) but orange also "peppers" his rear half like the yellow boeseman(but isn't as solid) ... I actually need to track down which type he is. At least right now, he's slightly shorter (1/2" or so) and more elongated looking where the yellow Boeseman is more oval and definitely heavier. Though they'll eat some flakes, they much prefer the frozen stuff and freeze-dried. I alternate the frozen (bloodworms, brine shrimp, white worms, mysis shrimp) and freeze-dried bloodworms. They eat all that stuff right up, the flakes less so. The Boeseman will even pick at the algae wafer from time to time I drop in there for the plecos and other cats. Hope that helps. Jim E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31994	From: greychildren	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31995	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Lol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but its pretty bad sometimes lol! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on the cusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow the Zodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understand the entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it on being a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOL It's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would go with a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also good choices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have had various colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially once getting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates in those tanks. Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish and the tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that will definitely be something you want for long term. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem, indecisiveness! Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time where else to find it so I guess that influenced my choice. But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the black again! Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I thought you were looking for black sand? LOL I know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its a pretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > > > _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:39:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31996	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat

If you search glass catfish or ghost fish on wikipedia, that's the one!, kryptopterus bicirrhis. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:47:25 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Oops... I just realized I forgot to include this other Mongabay profile page with another variety of "Glass Catfish" http://fish.mongabay.com/siluridae.htm This one grows to 5-6" but still prefers live foods until weaned onto processed foods. NOTE - When choosing any of the catfish or cichlid species, it's best to know their Latin names, not just common names, as the common names are often used for several different species. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Hey Gang, About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 6:02:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:47:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31997	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Upgrading lights

Hey Gang! I need to upgrade my bulbs. I got my tank at Petsupermarket but they don't have the lights I need. I have some plants so I think ill need about 150 w in a 55 g right? Its a marineland tank, takes Eclipse natural daylight 18". Where can I look for these? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31998	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: plants for shrimp

I would suggest some fine leaved plants and mosses for the aquarium. It will give the baby shrimp a place to hide. I have kept shrimp with a variety of plants. And at least for ghost shrimp the more guppies I had breeding in the tank the more shrimp I had. I don't know if it meant the adult guppies would eat the babies and they would leave the baby shrimp alone or what. but that was my experience. joey **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 31999	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Kribensis chiclids

> From: friendtoallfish > I have a 55 gallon with 1 danio, 4 austrailian rainbowfish and 2 > bristlenose plecos. I am interested in some sort of chiclid that > stays small and is not over aggerssive. Would Kribnesis work? > If not what would? Thanks From my short personal experience (I added a pair of kribs to my 75gal about a month ago) they should be fine, assuming they have a place they can "call their own." I consider my tank "medium" planted with a few pieces of driftwood and a few rocks. I have 2 rainbows and 2 plecos, so similar there, but also many other fish too. I haven't seen them bug anybody. They also have some great coloration too. Also some South American cichlids might be good too, I've got a couple of Bolivian Rams. I have one German blue ram (male, the female passed.) I also had a pair of gold rams but they didn't make it and never figured out what they had (the female died "suddenly" the male I tried to save in a hospital tank, alas he still didn't make it). So the smaller rams (the blue and gold) do seem a tad more sensitive but are great fish. The Bolivians definitely seem heartier but they aren't as colorful (and they are larger than the kribs, though length-wise their close, the kribs are more elongated than the Bolivians which are more oval and hence, heftier too). I'm definitely enjoying the kribs in the tank, their colors have kept "improving" during the course of the month I've had them. Hope that helps. Jim E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32000	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat

I didn't see the pics on my blackberry, but these guys are totally x-ray transparent, long and super narrow skinny. I only saw their max size listed at petsmart, I can get him some buddies soon. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:09:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Depending on the species... there are several that use the name Glass Catfish so you should properly ID yours... but this profile on Mongabay which has a couple of varieties profiles shows that the African Glass Catfish (Parailia congica - subject to have been changed) http://fish.mongabay.com/schilbeidae.htm should be fed live foods at least 1-2 times a week. Check out the Picture links for each catfish and see if you have one of these two and also check out the Food sections on preferred food items. Brine shrimp are listed as one of the live foods but also things like Insect Larvae and Tubifex. You may have to feed them these foods until you can wean them onto commercial food items. As a reminder to others... it's always a good idea to research fish and their particular needs before buying them. At least you didn't get stuck with a giant fish. Both of the ones listed only grow to around 3". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Hey Gang, About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:09:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

That's why they have divorce... lol Besides, the fish are much less expensive... at least compared to my ex-wife and her Imelda Marcos like habits. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby i been thinking about that Lenny just the wife wont bodge --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Go vertical! That same wall space that holds a single tank can easily be > set up with a rack system to hold 3-4 tanks. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby > > not enough space in my 1 bedroom house. what to do what to do. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > pam andress <pamandress23@> wrote: > > > > > > Well sounds like a problem to me. You don't have enough tanks. > > > > Pam > > 2-55g > > 2-29g > > 1-20g > > 1-15g > > 4-10g > > 1-2 1/2g and one not set up > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: greychildren@: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:35:05 > +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby > > > > > > > > I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and i > wantmore.Is it just me or am i going over board?i want a ciclid tank..I know > i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during the week atmy LFS.Should > i get help?..lol > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:31:03 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32002	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd and the 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had Scorpio tendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear that after 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with it... I just haven't been able to make it that long with any of you girls yet. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but its pretty bad sometimes lol! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on the cusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow the Zodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understand the entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it on being a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOL It's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would go with a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also good choices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have had various colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially once getting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates in those tanks. Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish and the tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that will definitely be something you want for long term. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem, indecisiveness! Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time where else to find it so I guess that influenced my choice. But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the black again! Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I thought you were looking for black sand? LOL I know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its a pretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and is nice. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. Cheers, Tania Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth enough. Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help take some of the edges off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or so But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or something unusual like that. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one would still round the edges. I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > > and this more general page about tank setups http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like water movement system... http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > > > for fish like the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete Cichlid Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > > and then on the FAQ page http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > > > _> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete > > > > > > _> sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't need/want it. This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > > > (scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled "Barbel Erosion") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Lenny! I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They have 2 types. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. Something like Eco-complete http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html 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<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > > > which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html 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<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > > > > if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration systems. This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to point it out in my message, oops, sorry. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: FW Sand Substates Hey Gang! I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good for this too. Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good idea? How much per gallon of tank to get? Thanks in advance! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:39:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:25:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:39:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat

While Wikipedia is sometimes a source I may be forced to use, it's not my preferred choice. Here's a couple of profiles from what I would consider reputable sources. Maybe the Wikipedia article is based on these profiles but I've seen some awfully bad info on Wikipedia as well. http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=1758 http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/k_bicirrhis.htm http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Kryptopterus_bicirrhis.html I noticed on the Mongabay profile that they should be kept in a shoal of four or more. That could have something to do with one of yours. That's why I like Mongabay profiles. They have more uniformity to them and include info that might not be on other good profiles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat If you search glass catfish or ghost fish on wikipedia, that's the one!, kryptopterus bicirrhis. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:47:25 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Oops... I just realized I forgot to include this other Mongabay profile page with another variety of "Glass Catfish" http://fish.mongabay.com/siluridae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/siluridae.htm> This one grows to 5-6" but still prefers live foods until weaned onto processed foods. NOTE - When choosing any of the catfish or cichlid species, it's best to know their Latin names, not just common names, as the common names are often used for several different species. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Hey Gang, About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:45:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32004	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights

I've bought replacement bulbs for ALL of my fluorescent lighting at WalMart SuperCenters.. maybe the regular WalMart's have them too but the SuperCenter is closer to my home. They don't have to be Eclipse brand. Bring one of your bulbs with you and get a replacement "natural daylight" or the Plants and Aquarium bulbs are good too. Just match the numbers and make sure the ends are the same. They are pretty uniform but there are different lengths and diameters. Even the regular el cheapo fluorescent bulbs are good. If your fixture holds two bulbs, you could get two types which will give you a broader lighting spectrum. You likely will not need 150W. 3W per gallon is more for a heavily planted tank with high-light plants, CO2, etc. Most other planted tanks do fine with 1-2W per gallon. That's all I have on my low-tech planted tanks. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Hey Gang! I need to upgrade my bulbs. I got my tank at Petsupermarket but they don't have the lights I need. I have some plants so I think ill need about 150 w in a 55 g right? Its a marineland tank, takes Eclipse natural daylight 18". Where can I look for these? Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:51:30 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32005	From: Jennie	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess

Sorry I miss read. I think you mean for me to raise the ammonia in my tank to 4-5ppm is that right? Jennie   --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 11:42 PM When you add the 1/8th teaspoon, what is your ammonia test in ppm's? If you are getting it up to 4-5ppm and it's cycling the ammonia and subsequent nitrites to nitrates in 12 hours or so, then you will be fully cycled for a full but not overstocked bioload of juvenile fish. If you are going to overstock the tank with adult sized fish, then you should increase the ammonia dosage but spread out every six hours so you do not raise the ammonia to over 4-5 ppm at any one time. For example, if you raise it to 4-5ppm and it completes the cycle in 12 hours. Then start adding that initial dose at first and then at the six hour mark, add 1/2 dose and continue to do that every six hours. This way, instead of building up a nitrifying bacteria colony capable of handling 4-5ppm per day or every 12 hours, you will be building up an even larger colony capable of handling 8-10ppm of ammonia per 12 hours or per day. Remember that if you have your tanks overstocked, you will need to do much more frequent tank and filter maintenance, including 2 or 3 PWC's per week, depending on the bioload you try to squeeze into a tank. It's best to NOT overstock for obvious reasons such as the constant health issues and maintenance issues that you WILL have to deal with in an overstocked tank. The key, during the fishless cycling, is also monitoring your KH levels or doing PWC's daily, as the cycle starts to move along, to keep your KH levels at a high enough level (or dosing with Baking Soda.. if needed). If your KH levels get too low, the pH will drop and the fishless cycle will stall until you get the KH levels back up a little. As far as compatibility, check out the profiles for each of your fish species on http://fish. mongabay. com. The profiles will tell you the preferred pH, temp, GH and KH ranges and also a section on Suggested Companions. There are always exceptions to the suggested water parameters (since fish can usually acclimate to a wide range of water parameters) and there are exceptions to the companions where fish that should get along, don't, or fish that shouldn't get along, do, but they will give you a good guideline. OK.. I know I should make folks do a little of their own research but here's what I know and what I found for you. The platys and mollies being livebearers and preferring harder water and sometimes with the addition of a little salt may be different from the preferred parameters for your other fish. What kind of Otos do you have? There are several common species. Here is the profile for Otocinclus affinis - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Otocinclus_ affinis.html and you'll see their water chemistry preferences and you'll also see that the livebearers are NOT on the suggested companion list but the tetra is listed.. mainly since they prefer softer water and slightly acidic (lower pH). Check out the pictures link on this profile to see if this is the species you have. Here is a larger list of Otos - http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains <http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains& g enus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search> &genus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search (Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/ and in the Genus search field, type in - contains - otocinclus - and that will bring up the list of Oto profiles on Planet Catfish. Here is the profile for Neon Tetras - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Paracheirodon_ innesi.html and you'll see their water chemistry is wide ranging and that livebearers are listed in their suggested companion section once the tetras have been acclimated to the harder water and higher pH. Of course, when this profile was written, neon tetras were a hardier species. Since then, there have been many problems in the commercial breeding of neon's so they are not nearly as hardy nowadays and there are regular reports of them dying for no known reason for new fish keepers. At one time they were on the top of the list for newbie's. Here is the profile for Livebearers - http://fish. mongabay. com/poeciliidae. htm Go to my blog and read the article on "Hailey's 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions" for more ideas on how you can stock up the 10G tanks. Now.. start reading! I'll give you a pop quiz in two days. LOL (just kidding, of course) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? Thanks Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 1:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32006	From: Jennie	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess

Otocinclus mariae is my catfish. What is GH, or KH? I don't see it anywhere? Is it Alk and TH. I'm looking on my test strip bottle. I tested my ammonia bottle its .50 a little weak? I tested my Betta tank it's 8. I took him out of that 2 gal tank and put him in a new 10 gal with fresh water. I had been  doing part water changes 5% daily on him how could the ammonia get so high!! He had a hornwort plant with him too! Anyway I want to get the other 10gal tank cycled and get him in it. Can I use the ammonia out of the Bettas 2 gal tank it reads 8ppm, it might be higher it turned really fast. So if I took 1/8 teaspoon of his water and mixed it in a cup of water put half in every 12 hours would that do it. Jennie   --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 11:42 PM When you add the 1/8th teaspoon, what is your ammonia test in ppm's? If you are getting it up to 4-5ppm and it's cycling the ammonia and subsequent nitrites to nitrates in 12 hours or so, then you will be fully cycled for a full but not overstocked bioload of juvenile fish. If you are going to overstock the tank with adult sized fish, then you should increase the ammonia dosage but spread out every six hours so you do not raise the ammonia to over 4-5 ppm at any one time. For example, if you raise it to 4-5ppm and it completes the cycle in 12 hours. Then start adding that initial dose at first and then at the six hour mark, add 1/2 dose and continue to do that every six hours. This way, instead of building up a nitrifying bacteria colony capable of handling 4-5ppm per day or every 12 hours, you will be building up an even larger colony capable of handling 8-10ppm of ammonia per 12 hours or per day. Remember that if you have your tanks overstocked, you will need to do much more frequent tank and filter maintenance, including 2 or 3 PWC's per week, depending on the bioload you try to squeeze into a tank. It's best to NOT overstock for obvious reasons such as the constant health issues and maintenance issues that you WILL have to deal with in an overstocked tank. The key, during the fishless cycling, is also monitoring your KH levels or doing PWC's daily, as the cycle starts to move along, to keep your KH levels at a high enough level (or dosing with Baking Soda.. if needed). If your KH levels get too low, the pH will drop and the fishless cycle will stall until you get the KH levels back up a little. As far as compatibility, check out the profiles for each of your fish species on http://fish. mongabay. com. The profiles will tell you the preferred pH, temp, GH and KH ranges and also a section on Suggested Companions. There are always exceptions to the suggested water parameters (since fish can usually acclimate to a wide range of water parameters) and there are exceptions to the companions where fish that should get along, don't, or fish that shouldn't get along, do, but they will give you a good guideline. OK.. I know I should make folks do a little of their own research but here's what I know and what I found for you. The platys and mollies being livebearers and preferring harder water and sometimes with the addition of a little salt may be different from the preferred parameters for your other fish. What kind of Otos do you have? There are several common species. Here is the profile for Otocinclus affinis - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Otocinclus_ affinis.html and you'll see their water chemistry preferences and you'll also see that the livebearers are NOT on the suggested companion list but the tetra is listed.. mainly since they prefer softer water and slightly acidic (lower pH). Check out the pictures link on this profile to see if this is the species you have. Here is a larger list of Otos - http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains <http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains& g enus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search> &genus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search (Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/ and in the Genus search field, type in - contains - otocinclus - and that will bring up the list of Oto profiles on Planet Catfish. Here is the profile for Neon Tetras - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Paracheirodon_ innesi.html and you'll see their water chemistry is wide ranging and that livebearers are listed in their suggested companion section once the tetras have been acclimated to the harder water and higher pH. Of course, when this profile was written, neon tetras were a hardier species. Since then, there have been many problems in the commercial breeding of neon's so they are not nearly as hardy nowadays and there are regular reports of them dying for no known reason for new fish keepers. At one time they were on the top of the list for newbie's. Here is the profile for Livebearers - http://fish. mongabay. com/poeciliidae. htm Go to my blog and read the article on "Hailey's 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions" for more ideas on how you can stock up the 10G tanks. Now.. start reading! I'll give you a pop quiz in two days. LOL (just kidding, of course) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? Thanks Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 1:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32007	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess

Well, I'm not sure what ppm the 1/8th teaspoon is raising it to in the first place. The best way to fishless cycle is to raise it to 4-5ppm and keep it there until it's fully cycling the ammonia and subsequent nitrite all the way to nitrate in 12 or so hours. Then the tank would be ready for a full bioload of fish. According to some of Dr. Tim Hovenac's studies that were published on Marineland's site before they split up, his studies showed a properly fully (but not overstocked) tank will create 4-5ppm of ammonia each day. If someone was planning on putting an oversized fish or overstocking fish in a newly fishless cycled tank, then they would have to get their nitrifying colonies built up to handle a larger than 4-5ppm of ammonia each day. The only way to do this is to raise the ammonia to 4-5ppm several times a day since raising it to more than 4-5ppm will usually cause the nitrifying bacteria to sometimes slow down their colony growth rates. So if you raised it to 4-5ppm in the morning and you test it at noon and it's down to 2ppm, then raise it back to 4-5ppm. Then at 6pm, if it's back down to 2ppm, raise it again. This will build a colony capable of handling 10-12ppm per day. This kind of bioload would require lots of filtration and maintenance and frequent PWC's... several times a week, to keep the hormones, DOC's and nitrates down at acceptable non-stressful levels but it is often done with cichlid tanks where they severely overstock which keeps the fighting down.. or rather spread out so no one fish gets beat up on too much at a time. I disagree with the concept but some still choose to do it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess Sorry I miss read. I think you mean for me to raise the ammonia in my tank to 4-5ppm is that right? Jennie --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 11:42 PM When you add the 1/8th teaspoon, what is your ammonia test in ppm's? If you are getting it up to 4-5ppm and it's cycling the ammonia and subsequent nitrites to nitrates in 12 hours or so, then you will be fully cycled for a full but not overstocked bioload of juvenile fish. If you are going to overstock the tank with adult sized fish, then you should increase the ammonia dosage but spread out every six hours so you do not raise the ammonia to over 4-5 ppm at any one time. For example, if you raise it to 4-5ppm and it completes the cycle in 12 hours. Then start adding that initial dose at first and then at the six hour mark, add 1/2 dose and continue to do that every six hours. This way, instead of building up a nitrifying bacteria colony capable of handling 4-5ppm per day or every 12 hours, you will be building up an even larger colony capable of handling 8-10ppm of ammonia per 12 hours or per day. Remember that if you have your tanks overstocked, you will need to do much more frequent tank and filter maintenance, including 2 or 3 PWC's per week, depending on the bioload you try to squeeze into a tank. It's best to NOT overstock for obvious reasons such as the constant health issues and maintenance issues that you WILL have to deal with in an overstocked tank. The key, during the fishless cycling, is also monitoring your KH levels or doing PWC's daily, as the cycle starts to move along, to keep your KH levels at a high enough level (or dosing with Baking Soda.. if needed). If your KH levels get too low, the pH will drop and the fishless cycle will stall until you get the KH levels back up a little. As far as compatibility, check out the profiles for each of your fish species on http://fish. mongabay. com. The profiles will tell you the preferred pH, temp, GH and KH ranges and also a section on Suggested Companions. There are always exceptions to the suggested water parameters (since fish can usually acclimate to a wide range of water parameters) and there are exceptions to the companions where fish that should get along, don't, or fish that shouldn't get along, do, but they will give you a good guideline. OK.. I know I should make folks do a little of their own research but here's what I know and what I found for you. The platys and mollies being livebearers and preferring harder water and sometimes with the addition of a little salt may be different from the preferred parameters for your other fish. What kind of Otos do you have? There are several common species. Here is the profile for Otocinclus affinis - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Otocinclus_ affinis.html and you'll see their water chemistry preferences and you'll also see that the livebearers are NOT on the suggested companion list but the tetra is listed.. mainly since they prefer softer water and slightly acidic (lower pH). Check out the pictures link on this profile to see if this is the species you have. Here is a larger list of Otos - http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains <http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains <http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains& g enus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search> & g enus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search> &genus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search (Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/ and in the Genus search field, type in - contains - otocinclus - and that will bring up the list of Oto profiles on Planet Catfish. Here is the profile for Neon Tetras - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Paracheirodon_ innesi.html and you'll see their water chemistry is wide ranging and that livebearers are listed in their suggested companion section once the tetras have been acclimated to the harder water and higher pH. Of course, when this profile was written, neon tetras were a hardier species. Since then, there have been many problems in the commercial breeding of neon's so they are not nearly as hardy nowadays and there are regular reports of them dying for no known reason for new fish keepers. At one time they were on the top of the list for newbie's. Here is the profile for Livebearers - http://fish. mongabay. com/poeciliidae. htm Go to my blog and read the article on "Hailey's 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions" for more ideas on how you can stock up the 10G tanks. Now.. start reading! I'll give you a pop quiz in two days. LOL (just kidding, of course) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? Thanks Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 1:42:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 12:06:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 12:23:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32008	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess

OK. When you say "tested my ammonia bottle", are you talking about your plain ammonia or something else? The plain ammonia right out the bottle would send a typical ammonia test kit off the charts. I'm not sure what your .50 reading is. Is that supposed to be .50 ppm? When you say your Betta tank is 8, what test is that? GH is General Hardness. KH is Carbonate Hardness. Yes, sometimes some test kits will call GH Total Hardness and KH Alkalinity.... at least I think that's what they are referring to. I've never owned a kit that uses those terms instead of the more standard GH and KH. I have a Dictionary and Acronym list on my blog that explains most of the common words, terms and acronyms used in aquaria. OK. Reading your post more, I see you mention the Betta and the ammonia being 8ppm. 5% PWC's a day is not nearly enough for a 2G Betta tank. More like 2-3 25% PWC's a week would be needed... or even daily if you might overfeed like many of us do. Were you vacuuming the gravel with each PWC? If not, a lot of detritus will build up and put out lots of ammonia as it decays. Did you have a small filter system on the tank? This is also needed or then lots of plants or daily PWC's would be needed. I like Hornwort but I don't think it's as effective in sucking up ammonia/nitrites/nitrates compared to other plants. I'm glad you moved him to the 10G but you should still have a small filter system on it and do proper filter and gravel maintenance with the weekly PWC's. Well, like I said earlier, the plain ammonia is usually 10% ammonium hydroxide which would be more like 1,000 ppm or 10,000ppm.. at least I think that is what it would be based on previous readings and debates but we can't test to that level. This type of ammonia would need 3-5 drops per gallon of tank water to bring it up to the 4-5ppm level needed for fishless cycling. Since your Bettas water is at 8ppm and you only have 2G of water, you would have to add it all to a 10G tank to then have a 1-2ppm level. With a single Betta in a 10G tank, you could probably cycle that tank with the Betta in it since that wouldn't be much of a bioload and you might only have to do twice weekly 25% PWC's to keep things in check. Especially if you used some of the gravel from the 2G tank in the filter system on the 10G tank. That's probably what I would do. I hope your Betta makes the acclimation OK. It's not good to move a fish from bad water directly to clean water. They get acclimated to the bad water and need to be acclimated back to good water by doing a series of 10% to 25% PWC's on the bad water tank until it's closer to the good water levels again. You might want to go to my blog on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take one or both of the free online tutorials which will walk you through the basics of fish keeping so you can avoid some of the common mistakes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess Otocinclus mariae is my catfish. What is GH, or KH? I don't see it anywhere? Is it Alk and TH. I'm looking on my test strip bottle. I tested my ammonia bottle its .50 a little weak? I tested my Betta tank it's 8. I took him out of that 2 gal tank and put him in a new 10 gal with fresh water. I had been doing part water changes 5% daily on him how could the ammonia get so high!! He had a hornwort plant with him too! Anyway I want to get the other 10gal tank cycled and get him in it. Can I use the ammonia out of the Bettas 2 gal tank it reads 8ppm, it might be higher it turned really fast. So if I took 1/8 teaspoon of his water and mixed it in a cup of water put half in every 12 hours would that do it. Jennie --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 11:42 PM When you add the 1/8th teaspoon, what is your ammonia test in ppm's? If you are getting it up to 4-5ppm and it's cycling the ammonia and subsequent nitrites to nitrates in 12 hours or so, then you will be fully cycled for a full but not overstocked bioload of juvenile fish. If you are going to overstock the tank with adult sized fish, then you should increase the ammonia dosage but spread out every six hours so you do not raise the ammonia to over 4-5 ppm at any one time. For example, if you raise it to 4-5ppm and it completes the cycle in 12 hours. Then start adding that initial dose at first and then at the six hour mark, add 1/2 dose and continue to do that every six hours. This way, instead of building up a nitrifying bacteria colony capable of handling 4-5ppm per day or every 12 hours, you will be building up an even larger colony capable of handling 8-10ppm of ammonia per 12 hours or per day. Remember that if you have your tanks overstocked, you will need to do much more frequent tank and filter maintenance, including 2 or 3 PWC's per week, depending on the bioload you try to squeeze into a tank. It's best to NOT overstock for obvious reasons such as the constant health issues and maintenance issues that you WILL have to deal with in an overstocked tank. The key, during the fishless cycling, is also monitoring your KH levels or doing PWC's daily, as the cycle starts to move along, to keep your KH levels at a high enough level (or dosing with Baking Soda.. if needed). If your KH levels get too low, the pH will drop and the fishless cycle will stall until you get the KH levels back up a little. As far as compatibility, check out the profiles for each of your fish species on http://fish. mongabay. com. The profiles will tell you the preferred pH, temp, GH and KH ranges and also a section on Suggested Companions. There are always exceptions to the suggested water parameters (since fish can usually acclimate to a wide range of water parameters) and there are exceptions to the companions where fish that should get along, don't, or fish that shouldn't get along, do, but they will give you a good guideline. OK.. I know I should make folks do a little of their own research but here's what I know and what I found for you. The platys and mollies being livebearers and preferring harder water and sometimes with the addition of a little salt may be different from the preferred parameters for your other fish. What kind of Otos do you have? There are several common species. Here is the profile for Otocinclus affinis - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Otocinclus_ affinis.html and you'll see their water chemistry preferences and you'll also see that the livebearers are NOT on the suggested companion list but the tetra is listed.. mainly since they prefer softer water and slightly acidic (lower pH). Check out the pictures link on this profile to see if this is the species you have. Here is a larger list of Otos - http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains <http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains <http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains& g enus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search> & g enus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search> &genus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search (Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/ and in the Genus search field, type in - contains - otocinclus - and that will bring up the list of Oto profiles on Planet Catfish. Here is the profile for Neon Tetras - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Paracheirodon_ innesi.html and you'll see their water chemistry is wide ranging and that livebearers are listed in their suggested companion section once the tetras have been acclimated to the harder water and higher pH. Of course, when this profile was written, neon tetras were a hardier species. Since then, there have been many problems in the commercial breeding of neon's so they are not nearly as hardy nowadays and there are regular reports of them dying for no known reason for new fish keepers. At one time they were on the top of the list for newbie's. Here is the profile for Livebearers - http://fish. mongabay. com/poeciliidae. htm Go to my blog and read the article on "Hailey's 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions" for more ideas on how you can stock up the 10G tanks. Now.. start reading! I'll give you a pop quiz in two days. LOL (just kidding, of course) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? Thanks Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 12:37:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32009	From: pam andress	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

Build on or get a bigger house. Pam not enough space in my 1 bedroom house. what to do what to do.--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote:>> > Well sounds like a problem to me. You don't have enough tanks. > > Pam> 2-55g> 2-29g> 1-20g> 1-15g> 4-10g> 1-2 1/2g and one not set up> > > > To: AquaticLife@...: greychildren@...: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:35:05+0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Adiction to the aquarium hobby> > > > I admin it.. i have 4 tanks and i cant stop, 40g,20g,10,2g and iwantmore.Is it just me or am i going over board?i want a ciclidtank..I know i have a problem wend i spend a lot of time during theweek atmy LFS.Should i get help?..lol . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32010	From: Carolyn Morse	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights

Tania, Hello, my name is Carolyn~new to this scene. I have always bought my lighting at a pet store but since my move I went down in aquarium size as well as not having a good pet store near by. WalMart is it and I actually just bought a small irredesant bulb there, I didn't like the one that came with the tank. Have a great day, Carolyn --- On Tue, 10/28/08, bubuci@... <bubuci@...> wrote: > From: bubuci@... <bubuci@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 9:17 AM > Hey Gang! > > I need to upgrade my bulbs. I got my tank at Petsupermarket > but they don't have the lights I need. I have some > plants so I think ill need about 150 w in a 55 g right? Its > a marineland tank, takes Eclipse natural daylight 18". > Where can I look for these? > > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32011	From: Jennie	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess

Yes it's out of the plain ammonia bottle and yes it's only .50ppm. It's very old bottle of ammonia or someone watered it down. And the Bettas ammonia level was 8ppm or at least thats as high as the chart goes. I took the water out of the 2 gal betta tank and put it in the cycling 10 gal and test ammonia with in 10 mins and there was none. I tested the water and got everything normal just a little on the NO3. I put my betta in the tank he looks happier. Thanks and I save all your emails for reference. Jennie   --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 10:37 AM OK. When you say "tested my ammonia bottle", are you talking about your plain ammonia or something else? The plain ammonia right out the bottle would send a typical ammonia test kit off the charts. I'm not sure what your .50 reading is. Is that supposed to be .50 ppm? When you say your Betta tank is 8, what test is that? GH is General Hardness. KH is Carbonate Hardness. Yes, sometimes some test kits will call GH Total Hardness and KH Alkalinity.. .. at least I think that's what they are referring to. I've never owned a kit that uses those terms instead of the more standard GH and KH. I have a Dictionary and Acronym list on my blog that explains most of the common words, terms and acronyms used in aquaria. OK. Reading your post more, I see you mention the Betta and the ammonia being 8ppm. 5% PWC's a day is not nearly enough for a 2G Betta tank. More like 2-3 25% PWC's a week would be needed... or even daily if you might overfeed like many of us do. Were you vacuuming the gravel with each PWC? If not, a lot of detritus will build up and put out lots of ammonia as it decays. Did you have a small filter system on the tank? This is also needed or then lots of plants or daily PWC's would be needed. I like Hornwort but I don't think it's as effective in sucking up ammonia/nitrites/ nitrates compared to other plants. I'm glad you moved him to the 10G but you should still have a small filter system on it and do proper filter and gravel maintenance with the weekly PWC's. Well, like I said earlier, the plain ammonia is usually 10% ammonium hydroxide which would be more like 1,000 ppm or 10,000ppm.. at least I think that is what it would be based on previous readings and debates but we can't test to that level. This type of ammonia would need 3-5 drops per gallon of tank water to bring it up to the 4-5ppm level needed for fishless cycling. Since your Bettas water is at 8ppm and you only have 2G of water, you would have to add it all to a 10G tank to then have a 1-2ppm level. With a single Betta in a 10G tank, you could probably cycle that tank with the Betta in it since that wouldn't be much of a bioload and you might only have to do twice weekly 25% PWC's to keep things in check. Especially if you used some of the gravel from the 2G tank in the filter system on the 10G tank. That's probably what I would do. I hope your Betta makes the acclimation OK. It's not good to move a fish from bad water directly to clean water. They get acclimated to the bad water and need to be acclimated back to good water by doing a series of 10% to 25% PWC's on the bad water tank until it's closer to the good water levels again. You might want to go to my blog on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take one or both of the free online tutorials which will walk you through the basics of fish keeping so you can avoid some of the common mistakes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:52 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess Otocinclus mariae is my catfish. What is GH, or KH? I don't see it anywhere? Is it Alk and TH. I'm looking on my test strip bottle. I tested my ammonia bottle its .50 a little weak? I tested my Betta tank it's 8. I took him out of that 2 gal tank and put him in a new 10 gal with fresh water. I had been doing part water changes 5% daily on him how could the ammonia get so high!! He had a hornwort plant with him too! Anyway I want to get the other 10gal tank cycled and get him in it. Can I use the ammonia out of the Bettas 2 gal tank it reads 8ppm, it might be higher it turned really fast. So if I took 1/8 teaspoon of his water and mixed it in a cup of water put half in every 12 hours would that do it. Jennie --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 11:42 PM When you add the 1/8th teaspoon, what is your ammonia test in ppm's? If you are getting it up to 4-5ppm and it's cycling the ammonia and subsequent nitrites to nitrates in 12 hours or so, then you will be fully cycled for a full but not overstocked bioload of juvenile fish. If you are going to overstock the tank with adult sized fish, then you should increase the ammonia dosage but spread out every six hours so you do not raise the ammonia to over 4-5 ppm at any one time. For example, if you raise it to 4-5ppm and it completes the cycle in 12 hours. Then start adding that initial dose at first and then at the six hour mark, add 1/2 dose and continue to do that every six hours. This way, instead of building up a nitrifying bacteria colony capable of handling 4-5ppm per day or every 12 hours, you will be building up an even larger colony capable of handling 8-10ppm of ammonia per 12 hours or per day. Remember that if you have your tanks overstocked, you will need to do much more frequent tank and filter maintenance, including 2 or 3 PWC's per week, depending on the bioload you try to squeeze into a tank. It's best to NOT overstock for obvious reasons such as the constant health issues and maintenance issues that you WILL have to deal with in an overstocked tank. The key, during the fishless cycling, is also monitoring your KH levels or doing PWC's daily, as the cycle starts to move along, to keep your KH levels at a high enough level (or dosing with Baking Soda.. if needed). If your KH levels get too low, the pH will drop and the fishless cycle will stall until you get the KH levels back up a little. As far as compatibility, check out the profiles for each of your fish species on http://fish. mongabay. com. The profiles will tell you the preferred pH, temp, GH and KH ranges and also a section on Suggested Companions. There are always exceptions to the suggested water parameters (since fish can usually acclimate to a wide range of water parameters) and there are exceptions to the companions where fish that should get along, don't, or fish that shouldn't get along, do, but they will give you a good guideline. OK.. I know I should make folks do a little of their own research but here's what I know and what I found for you. The platys and mollies being livebearers and preferring harder water and sometimes with the addition of a little salt may be different from the preferred parameters for your other fish. What kind of Otos do you have? There are several common species. Here is the profile for Otocinclus affinis - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Otocinclus_ affinis.html and you'll see their water chemistry preferences and you'll also see that the livebearers are NOT on the suggested companion list but the tetra is listed.. mainly since they prefer softer water and slightly acidic (lower pH). Check out the pictures link on this profile to see if this is the species you have. Here is a larger list of Otos - http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains <http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains <http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains& g enus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search> & g enus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search> &genus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search (Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/ and in the Genus search field, type in - contains - otocinclus - and that will bring up the list of Oto profiles on Planet Catfish. Here is the profile for Neon Tetras - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Paracheirodon_ innesi.html and you'll see their water chemistry is wide ranging and that livebearers are listed in their suggested companion section once the tetras have been acclimated to the harder water and higher pH. Of course, when this profile was written, neon tetras were a hardier species. Since then, there have been many problems in the commercial breeding of neon's so they are not nearly as hardy nowadays and there are regular reports of them dying for no known reason for new fish keepers. At one time they were on the top of the list for newbie's. Here is the profile for Livebearers - http://fish. mongabay. com/poeciliidae. htm Go to my blog and read the article on "Hailey's 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions" for more ideas on how you can stock up the 10G tanks. Now.. start reading! I'll give you a pop quiz in two days. LOL (just kidding, of course) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? Thanks Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 12:37:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32012	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat

Good stuff Lenny, thank you. Ok ill look into another pair then. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:45:29 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat While Wikipedia is sometimes a source I may be forced to use, it's not my preferred choice. Here's a couple of profiles from what I would consider reputable sources. Maybe the Wikipedia article is based on these profiles but I've seen some awfully bad info on Wikipedia as well. http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=1758 http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/k_bicirrhis.htm http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Kryptopterus_bicirrhis.html I noticed on the Mongabay profile that they should be kept in a shoal of four or more. That could have something to do with one of yours. That's why I like Mongabay profiles. They have more uniformity to them and include info that might not be on other good profiles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat If you search glass catfish or ghost fish on wikipedia, that's the one!, kryptopterus bicirrhis. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:47:25 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Oops... I just realized I forgot to include this other Mongabay profile page with another variety of "Glass Catfish" http://fish.mongabay.com/siluridae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/siluridae.htm> This one grows to 5-6" but still prefers live foods until weaned onto processed foods. NOTE - When choosing any of the catfish or cichlid species, it's best to know their Latin names, not just common names, as the common names are often used for several different species. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Glass Catfish won't eat Hey Gang, About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:45:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32013	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: different Rainbows Shoaling

Tania, My LFS has a big tank with Boesmani Rainbows, Irian Rainbows, Goyder River Rainbows, Congo Tetras, Denisonii Barbs, and a few other colorful larger fish I can't remember. They all show their vivid beautiful colors. I think it's a matter of age and proper diet. Older, well fed fish show off their colors. Linda bubuci@... wrote: > > > On Steve's note of different species shoaling, do you think Boesemanis will shoal will Irani Rainbows? > > > > I read once yes, but guy at LFS said no. He said neither species would show their vivid color while in the others presence because they feel threatened. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32014	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess

Well it's either watered down or someone left it uncapped for a long time which allowed the ammonium hydroxide to outgas from the water. Give it the old smell test. If it doesn't wake you up and/or bring tears to your eyes, then it's not a good bottle of ammonia any longer. Don't take a strong whiff in though.. just a light one to check. This is why it's important to test the tank after adding the first dose of ammonia to make sure you get it up to the 4-5ppm of ammonia that is needed to fishless cycle a new tank for a full bioload. If one was going to lightly stock their new tank, then one could fishless cycle to only 1-2ppm or 2-3ppm. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess Yes it's out of the plain ammonia bottle and yes it's only .50ppm. It's very old bottle of ammonia or someone watered it down. And the Bettas ammonia level was 8ppm or at least thats as high as the chart goes. I took the water out of the 2 gal betta tank and put it in the cycling 10 gal and test ammonia with in 10 mins and there was none. I tested the water and got everything normal just a little on the NO3. I put my betta in the tank he looks happier. Thanks and I save all your emails for reference. Jennie --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 10:37 AM OK. When you say "tested my ammonia bottle", are you talking about your plain ammonia or something else? The plain ammonia right out the bottle would send a typical ammonia test kit off the charts. I'm not sure what your .50 reading is. Is that supposed to be .50 ppm? When you say your Betta tank is 8, what test is that? GH is General Hardness. KH is Carbonate Hardness. Yes, sometimes some test kits will call GH Total Hardness and KH Alkalinity.. .. at least I think that's what they are referring to. I've never owned a kit that uses those terms instead of the more standard GH and KH. I have a Dictionary and Acronym list on my blog that explains most of the common words, terms and acronyms used in aquaria. OK. Reading your post more, I see you mention the Betta and the ammonia being 8ppm. 5% PWC's a day is not nearly enough for a 2G Betta tank. More like 2-3 25% PWC's a week would be needed... or even daily if you might overfeed like many of us do. Were you vacuuming the gravel with each PWC? If not, a lot of detritus will build up and put out lots of ammonia as it decays. Did you have a small filter system on the tank? This is also needed or then lots of plants or daily PWC's would be needed. I like Hornwort but I don't think it's as effective in sucking up ammonia/nitrites/ nitrates compared to other plants. I'm glad you moved him to the 10G but you should still have a small filter system on it and do proper filter and gravel maintenance with the weekly PWC's. Well, like I said earlier, the plain ammonia is usually 10% ammonium hydroxide which would be more like 1,000 ppm or 10,000ppm.. at least I think that is what it would be based on previous readings and debates but we can't test to that level. This type of ammonia would need 3-5 drops per gallon of tank water to bring it up to the 4-5ppm level needed for fishless cycling. Since your Bettas water is at 8ppm and you only have 2G of water, you would have to add it all to a 10G tank to then have a 1-2ppm level. With a single Betta in a 10G tank, you could probably cycle that tank with the Betta in it since that wouldn't be much of a bioload and you might only have to do twice weekly 25% PWC's to keep things in check. Especially if you used some of the gravel from the 2G tank in the filter system on the 10G tank. That's probably what I would do. I hope your Betta makes the acclimation OK. It's not good to move a fish from bad water directly to clean water. They get acclimated to the bad water and need to be acclimated back to good water by doing a series of 10% to 25% PWC's on the bad water tank until it's closer to the good water levels again. You might want to go to my blog on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take one or both of the free online tutorials which will walk you through the basics of fish keeping so you can avoid some of the common mistakes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:52 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess Otocinclus mariae is my catfish. What is GH, or KH? I don't see it anywhere? Is it Alk and TH. I'm looking on my test strip bottle. I tested my ammonia bottle its .50 a little weak? I tested my Betta tank it's 8. I took him out of that 2 gal tank and put him in a new 10 gal with fresh water. I had been doing part water changes 5% daily on him how could the ammonia get so high!! He had a hornwort plant with him too! Anyway I want to get the other 10gal tank cycled and get him in it. Can I use the ammonia out of the Bettas 2 gal tank it reads 8ppm, it might be higher it turned really fast. So if I took 1/8 teaspoon of his water and mixed it in a cup of water put half in every 12 hours would that do it. Jennie --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my fish mess To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 11:42 PM When you add the 1/8th teaspoon, what is your ammonia test in ppm's? If you are getting it up to 4-5ppm and it's cycling the ammonia and subsequent nitrites to nitrates in 12 hours or so, then you will be fully cycled for a full but not overstocked bioload of juvenile fish. If you are going to overstock the tank with adult sized fish, then you should increase the ammonia dosage but spread out every six hours so you do not raise the ammonia to over 4-5 ppm at any one time. For example, if you raise it to 4-5ppm and it completes the cycle in 12 hours. Then start adding that initial dose at first and then at the six hour mark, add 1/2 dose and continue to do that every six hours. This way, instead of building up a nitrifying bacteria colony capable of handling 4-5ppm per day or every 12 hours, you will be building up an even larger colony capable of handling 8-10ppm of ammonia per 12 hours or per day. Remember that if you have your tanks overstocked, you will need to do much more frequent tank and filter maintenance, including 2 or 3 PWC's per week, depending on the bioload you try to squeeze into a tank. It's best to NOT overstock for obvious reasons such as the constant health issues and maintenance issues that you WILL have to deal with in an overstocked tank. The key, during the fishless cycling, is also monitoring your KH levels or doing PWC's daily, as the cycle starts to move along, to keep your KH levels at a high enough level (or dosing with Baking Soda.. if needed). If your KH levels get too low, the pH will drop and the fishless cycle will stall until you get the KH levels back up a little. As far as compatibility, check out the profiles for each of your fish species on http://fish. mongabay. com. The profiles will tell you the preferred pH, temp, GH and KH ranges and also a section on Suggested Companions. There are always exceptions to the suggested water parameters (since fish can usually acclimate to a wide range of water parameters) and there are exceptions to the companions where fish that should get along, don't, or fish that shouldn't get along, do, but they will give you a good guideline. OK.. I know I should make folks do a little of their own research but here's what I know and what I found for you. The platys and mollies being livebearers and preferring harder water and sometimes with the addition of a little salt may be different from the preferred parameters for your other fish. What kind of Otos do you have? There are several common species. Here is the profile for Otocinclus affinis - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Otocinclus_ affinis.html and you'll see their water chemistry preferences and you'll also see that the livebearers are NOT on the suggested companion list but the tetra is listed.. mainly since they prefer softer water and slightly acidic (lower pH). Check out the pictures link on this profile to see if this is the species you have. Here is a larger list of Otos - http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains <http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains <http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/index. php?genus_ search_type= contains& g enus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search> & g enus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search> &genus=otocinclus& species_search_ type=is&species= &task=Search (Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.planetca tfish.com/ catelog/ and in the Genus search field, type in - contains - otocinclus - and that will bring up the list of Oto profiles on Planet Catfish. Here is the profile for Neon Tetras - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Paracheirodon_ innesi.html and you'll see their water chemistry is wide ranging and that livebearers are listed in their suggested companion section once the tetras have been acclimated to the harder water and higher pH. Of course, when this profile was written, neon tetras were a hardier species. Since then, there have been many problems in the commercial breeding of neon's so they are not nearly as hardy nowadays and there are regular reports of them dying for no known reason for new fish keepers. At one time they were on the top of the list for newbie's. Here is the profile for Livebearers - http://fish. mongabay. com/poeciliidae. htm Go to my blog and read the article on "Hailey's 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions" for more ideas on how you can stock up the 10G tanks. Now.. start reading! I'll give you a pop quiz in two days. LOL (just kidding, of course) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? Thanks Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 12:37:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-0, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 4:40:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-0, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 4:50:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32015	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: My snails

In a message dated 10/28/2008 9:42:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alambiet@... writes: How do you feed them corn and raisins? I did read on the applesnail.net site that they like pond (koi) pellets, even though they float, and they supposedly go to the water line and create some kind of a funnel to get the food to them (would love to witness that some day) but I have used the pellets and Gary is not prone to go up to the surface. I usually remove the food after awhile, so it doesn't muck up the tank. I use clips for lettuce and other veggies those items sink, so it's an easy matter of dropping them so they fall in front of the snail while it's foraging in the bottom. Then it's "YUM!" time. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32016	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights

Carolyn + Lenny, Thanks so much for your replies. The problem is there's no Walmart near where I live since I last checked. I'm in 33129, ill check again. Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Morse <mocode1@...> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:59:18 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Tania, Hello, my name is Carolyn~new to this scene. I have always bought my lighting at a pet store but since my move I went down in aquarium size as well as not having a good pet store near by. WalMart is it and I actually just bought a small irredesant bulb there, I didn't like the one that came with the tank. Have a great day, Carolyn --- On Tue, 10/28/08, bubuci@... <bubuci@...> wrote: > From: bubuci@... <bubuci@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 9:17 AM > Hey Gang! > > I need to upgrade my bulbs. I got my tank at Petsupermarket > but they don't have the lights I need. I have some > plants so I think ill need about 150 w in a 55 g right? Its > a marineland tank, takes Eclipse natural daylight 18". > Where can I look for these? > > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights

Dang... you better notify WalMart.. they may not know. LOL I have five of them within 5 miles of me (and three within 2 miles with another one being built right now), if you count the SuperCenters, regular WalMarts, WalMart Market (groceries) and Sam's Clubs. I just did a Google search on - Wal-Mart 33129 - and it came up with six stores in that zip code... and a Google map with the pins showing their location and two or three of them look like they're SuperCenters. http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129> &oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 http://www.WalMart.com using their Find A Store and your zip code found this list of nearby stores... dang, they're everywhere around you. http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=AL L <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A LL&sfatt=ALL&rx_title=&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfsearch_zip=33129> &sfatt=ALL&rx_title=&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfsearch_zip=33129 We found 20 stores near 33129 : (The above link will give the actual stores addresses, phone numbers, etc.) 1. Miami, FL 33126 2. Hialeah Gardens, FL 33016 3. North Miami Beach, FL 33162 4. Miami Gardens, FL 33169 5. Hialeah, FL 33015 6. Miami Gardens (Prop, FL 33056 7. Kendall, FL 33186 8. Miramar, FL 33025 9. Hallandale, FL 33009 10. Pembroke Pines, FL 33029 11. Cooper City, FL 33330 12. Florida City, FL 33034 13. Plantation, FL 33322 14. Sunrise, FL 33323 15. Lauderdale Lakes, FL 33313 16. Sunrise, FL 33351 17. North Lauderdale, FL 33068 18. Pompano Beach, FL 33069 Now Open 19. Pompano Beach, FL 33069 20. Coral Springs, FL 33071 There also seems to be one in 33130 that isn't on the above list: The Google maps feature says it's within 2,500 feet (1/2 mile) of 33139 zip code. WAL Mart Supercenter 1108 SW 10th St Miami, FL 33130 (305) 470-4505‎ It looks like it's on the corner of SW 12th Ave and SW 8th Street (aka Calle Ocho) BTW... do you have a sister that would like to relocate and get married? Any woman that doesn't know about every nearby place to shop might have a place in my heart... and wallet.... unless ya'll only shop at the expensive malls or upscale department stores.. then you can keep her down there. LOL ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Carolyn + Lenny, Thanks so much for your replies. The problem is there's no Walmart near where I live since I last checked. I'm in 33129, ill check again. Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Morse <mocode1@... <mailto:mocode1%40yahoo.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:59:18 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Tania, Hello, my name is Carolyn~new to this scene. I have always bought my lighting at a pet store but since my move I went down in aquarium size as well as not having a good pet store near by. WalMart is it and I actually just bought a small irredesant bulb there, I didn't like the one that came with the tank. Have a great day, Carolyn --- On Tue, 10/28/08, bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > wrote: > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 9:17 AM Hey Gang! > > I need to upgrade my bulbs. I got my tank at Petsupermarket but they > don't have the lights I need. I have some plants so I think ill need > about 150 w in a 55 g right? Its a marineland tank, takes Eclipse > natural daylight 18". > Where can I look for these? > > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-0, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 5:51:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32018	From: Jennifer Walker	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?

I have both gold and regular dojos in one tank. The plain dojos seem to be more active and slightly bigger. I would not keep just one though. They really love to be in groups. Mine play and swim around with eachother. If your tank is a little warmer you might try Black Kuhli Loaches. They are much smaller, around 2in, so you could possibly keep a group. I do not have snails so I dont know about that one but I would bet that Kuhlis would be too small to eat your snails. Both kuhlis and Dojo are very peace full. I keep them with Danios in one tank and Corys in another and have never had a problem.       Jennifer --- On Sat, 10/25/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 10:17 AM I've never kept them, but like all fish, the best bet is to try and provide them with their preferred environment. .. including tank size, shoaling mates, etc., but I'm sure people have been successful with them outside of their preferred parameters. They are cool water fish, not tropical fish, and your snails/shrimp may become snacks. http://www.loaches. com/species- index/weather- loach-misgurnis- anguillicaudatu s http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_dojo.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... ry.net Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Hey Gang, Does anyone have experience with Weather or Dojo Loaches? I'm considering getting one, I know you are supposed to have a group, but my tank can't handle it. I can do 1, but 3 will be overcrowded I think. How many gallons per Dojo and will they do ok with regular gravel? What do they like to eat? What color do most of you prefer, Gold or Original? Will they bother my Mystery Snails or Ghost Shrimp? Will they get on with a Blue Ram? Thanks in advance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:17:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32019	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights

Lol! Omg what rock have I been living under? How embarrassing! Thanks so much for that info again! Ok I'm gonna have to go check one out. I actually hardly shop except for necessities. Times are tough right now as we all know and I do have 4 sisters! All single, but forget about two of them, they're koo koo, the others: one has a bf and one is single so hmmmmm. ;-) Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:51:51 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Dang... you better notify WalMart.. they may not know. LOL I have five of them within 5 miles of me (and three within 2 miles with another one being built right now), if you count the SuperCenters, regular WalMarts, WalMart Market (groceries) and Sam's Clubs. I just did a Google search on - Wal-Mart 33129 - and it came up with six stores in that zip code... and a Google map with the pins showing their location and two or three of them look like they're SuperCenters. http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129> &oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 http://www.WalMart.com using their Find A Store and your zip code found this list of nearby stores... dang, they're everywhere around you. http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=AL L <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A LL&sfatt=ALL&rx_title=&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfsearch_zip=33129> &sfatt=ALL&rx_title=&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfsearch_zip=33129 We found 20 stores near 33129 : (The above link will give the actual stores addresses, phone numbers, etc.) 1. Miami, FL 33126 2. Hialeah Gardens, FL 33016 3. North Miami Beach, FL 33162 4. Miami Gardens, FL 33169 5. Hialeah, FL 33015 6. Miami Gardens (Prop, FL 33056 7. Kendall, FL 33186 8. Miramar, FL 33025 9. Hallandale, FL 33009 10. Pembroke Pines, FL 33029 11. Cooper City, FL 33330 12. Florida City, FL 33034 13. Plantation, FL 33322 14. Sunrise, FL 33323 15. Lauderdale Lakes, FL 33313 16. Sunrise, FL 33351 17. North Lauderdale, FL 33068 18. Pompano Beach, FL 33069 Now Open 19. Pompano Beach, FL 33069 20. Coral Springs, FL 33071 There also seems to be one in 33130 that isn't on the above list: The Google maps feature says it's within 2,500 feet (1/2 mile) of 33139 zip code. WAL Mart Supercenter 1108 SW 10th St Miami, FL 33130 (305) 470-4505‎ It looks like it's on the corner of SW 12th Ave and SW 8th Street (aka Calle Ocho) BTW... do you have a sister that would like to relocate and get married? Any woman that doesn't know about every nearby place to shop might have a place in my heart... and wallet.... unless ya'll only shop at the expensive malls or upscale department stores.. then you can keep her down there. LOL ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Carolyn + Lenny, Thanks so much for your replies. The problem is there's no Walmart near where I live since I last checked. I'm in 33129, ill check again. Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Morse <mocode1@... <mailto:mocode1%40yahoo.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:59:18 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Tania, Hello, my name is Carolyn~new to this scene. I have always bought my lighting at a pet store but since my move I went down in aquarium size as well as not having a good pet store near by. WalMart is it and I actually just bought a small irredesant bulb there, I didn't like the one that came with the tank. Have a great day, Carolyn --- On Tue, 10/28/08, bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > wrote: > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 9:17 AM Hey Gang! > > I need to upgrade my bulbs. I got my tank at Petsupermarket but they > don't have the lights I need. I have some plants so I think ill need > about 150 w in a 55 g right? Its a marineland tank, takes Eclipse > natural daylight 18". > Where can I look for these? > > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-0, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 5:51:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((÷>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((÷> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((÷> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <÷((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<÷((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<÷((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights

Four sisters??? So five of you altogether? Darn.. why can't I have a family like that living next door to me! ;-) There must be something good in the water down there... at least for the guys. And don't count out the koo koo ones... heck, I thought all of you were... LOL ... at least all the girls I've dated seem to have been. If I was to dismiss koo koo girls, there might not be any girls left... and I'm not bad-off enough yet to move to San Francisco. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Lol! Omg what rock have I been living under? How embarrassing! Thanks so much for that info again! Ok I'm gonna have to go check one out. I actually hardly shop except for necessities. Times are tough right now as we all know and I do have 4 sisters! All single, but forget about two of them, they're koo koo, the others: one has a bf and one is single so hmmmmm. ;-) Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:51:51 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Dang... you better notify WalMart.. they may not know. LOL I have five of them within 5 miles of me (and three within 2 miles with another one being built right now), if you count the SuperCenters, regular WalMarts, WalMart Market (groceries) and Sam's Clubs. I just did a Google search on - Wal-Mart 33129 - and it came up with six stores in that zip code... and a Google map with the pins showing their location and two or three of them look like they're SuperCenters. http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8> <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129> &oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 > > &oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 http://www.WalMart.com <http://www.WalMart.com> using their Find A Store and your zip code found this list of nearby stores... dang, they're everywhere around you. http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=AL <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A L> L <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A > > LL&sfatt=ALL&rx_title=&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfsearch_zip=33129> &sfatt=ALL&rx_title=&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfsearch_zip=33129 We found 20 stores near 33129 : (The above link will give the actual stores addresses, phone numbers, etc.) 1. Miami, FL 33126 2. Hialeah Gardens, FL 33016 3. North Miami Beach, FL 33162 4. Miami Gardens, FL 33169 5. Hialeah, FL 33015 6. Miami Gardens (Prop, FL 33056 7. Kendall, FL 33186 8. Miramar, FL 33025 9. Hallandale, FL 33009 10. Pembroke Pines, FL 33029 11. Cooper City, FL 33330 12. Florida City, FL 33034 13. Plantation, FL 33322 14. Sunrise, FL 33323 15. Lauderdale Lakes, FL 33313 16. Sunrise, FL 33351 17. North Lauderdale, FL 33068 18. Pompano Beach, FL 33069 Now Open 19. Pompano Beach, FL 33069 20. Coral Springs, FL 33071 There also seems to be one in 33130 that isn't on the above list: The Google maps feature says it's within 2,500 feet (1/2 mile) of 33139 zip code. WAL Mart Supercenter 1108 SW 10th St Miami, FL 33130 (305) 470-4505‎ It looks like it's on the corner of SW 12th Ave and SW 8th Street (aka Calle Ocho) BTW... do you have a sister that would like to relocate and get married? Any woman that doesn't know about every nearby place to shop might have a place in my heart... and wallet.... unless ya'll only shop at the expensive malls or upscale department stores.. then you can keep her down there. LOL ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Carolyn + Lenny, Thanks so much for your replies. The problem is there's no Walmart near where I live since I last checked. I'm in 33129, ill check again. Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Morse <mocode1@... <mailto:mocode1%40yahoo.com> <mailto:mocode1%40yahoo.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:59:18 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Tania, Hello, my name is Carolyn~new to this scene. I have always bought my lighting at a pet store but since my move I went down in aquarium size as well as not having a good pet store near by. WalMart is it and I actually just bought a small irredesant bulb there, I didn't like the one that came with the tank. Have a great day, Carolyn --- On Tue, 10/28/08, bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > wrote: > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 9:17 AM Hey Gang! > > I need to upgrade my bulbs. I got my tank at Petsupermarket but they > don't have the lights I need. I have some plants so I think ill need > about 150 w in a 55 g right? Its a marineland tank, takes Eclipse > natural daylight 18". > Where can I look for these? > > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 6:35:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32021	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?

Jennifer! Thanks for your reply! :D what temp do you keep your Dojos in? What size tank? How big are they? I actually do have 2 Kuhlis, one is a Java though, but they hang out together but don't do much else, they hide a lot. I really like the aspect of the weather loach reacting to weather changes. Fun! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Walker <Risika23@...> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:47:31 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? I have both gold and regular dojos in one tank. The plain dojos seem to be more active and slightly bigger. I would not keep just one though. They really love to be in groups. Mine play and swim around with eachother. If your tank is a little warmer you might try Black Kuhli Loaches. They are much smaller, around 2in, so you could possibly keep a group. I do not have snails so I dont know about that one but I would bet that Kuhlis would be too small to eat your snails. Both kuhlis and Dojo are very peace full. I keep them with Danios in one tank and Corys in another and have never had a problem. � � � Jennifer --- On Sat, 10/25/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 10:17 AM I've never kept them, but like all fish, the best bet is to try and provide them with their preferred environment. .. including tank size, shoaling mates, etc., but I'm sure people have been successful with them outside of their preferred parameters. They are cool water fish, not tropical fish, and your snails/shrimp may become snacks. http://www.loaches. com/species- index/weather- loach-misgurnis- anguillicaudatu s http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_dojo.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... ry.net Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Hey Gang, Does anyone have experience with Weather or Dojo Loaches? I'm considering getting one, I know you are supposed to have a group, but my tank can't handle it. I can do 1, but 3 will be overcrowded I think. How many gallons per Dojo and will they do ok with regular gravel? What do they like to eat? What color do most of you prefer, Gold or Original? Will they bother my Mystery Snails or Ghost Shrimp? Will they get on with a Blue Ram? Thanks in advance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:17:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32022	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction

Hi \\Steve//, At last count early Saturday morning, I was told there were about 210 entries, somewhat lower than in previous shows. The final count may have been more at the noon entry deadline, I don't know, but I understand it may have been closer to 250 or 260. This was enough for a decent representation in most classes. We had well over 300 last year. The 190 or so catfish entries shown, broken up into the various classes of them, seems like a good showing for just one "group" of fish at that Convention. I'm sure those entries were broken up into a good number of different categories. We don't have the luxury of breaking them up into any more than 4 classes (Callichthyids/Corydoras, etc., Loricariids/Plecos, African Catfish and All Other Catfish), nor do we need to being an all-species show. Considering this wasn't a major event this year I think we did fairly well with entries, even though I'd have liked to have seen more. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > How many entries did you have in the show? The open show at the catfish > Convention the other week had 190 registered entries, but I do not know > what the final count was > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 10:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction > > Hi Donna, Good to hear (directly) from you. The show and auction > went well, as it always does; too bad you had to miss it. Lots of > Rift Lake Cichlids in the auction, if you would have needed > something. Lots of other bags of auction fish as well -- a large > variety of stuff. Don't know how many bags in all, but there were a > good number of them, keeping us there until after 6PM last night. > One thing I'd like to mention, as I know you have this fish, is that > there must have been nearly a million bags of Yellow Labs available > at the auction. Either everyone is breeding them, or one person is > really pumping them out. > > Would have replied here last night but I was too beat from a few real > long days, not to mention that I had show fish and auction fish to > put away when I got home. The show could have been larger (I've seen > larger in the past), but all-in-all, there was a good representation > of fish in all classes. A highlight of the show (at least for me) > was that the first president of the NJAS showed up and I got the > chance to meet him and to have a short chat with him. The club was > founded in April 1954 (not 1953 as everyone there insists on > believing), so its 54 years old this year. > > It was an honor meeting the first president, Joseph (Joe) F. Epper, > who is now 82 years old -- he had to be 28 when the club first > started. In answer to one of my questions to him, he still has fish > (3 Angelfish). I guess keeping fish keeps you going, as he looked > well; I had never met him before this but was glad I finally did so. > Undoubtedly, Hank will remember him, being an original member of the > club back then. You missed a good show, but I know if you could have > made it, you would have. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > Ray, how was it? I was not able to attend. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32023	From: pam andress	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday to everyone. Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it?You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely be something you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybethat's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or soBut I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of bufferingsand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go forthe pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect thepH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added intoor onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element.In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any ofthe pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black CichlidEco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of myreply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would beto buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent atumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would workbetter than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > > andthismore general page about tank setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > >Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going withDojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-likewater movement system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > > > forfishlike the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches.Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe forburrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete CichlidSand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > >>and then on the FAQ pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> >_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> >> >_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> >> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> >> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> >> >> >_>sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and whatpH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a badthing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hardwater that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and runpeat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don'tneed/want it.This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has asection on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing withloaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand thatcauses the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > > >(scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the sectiontitled "BarbelErosion")Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heatedtank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miamiso it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are therewater coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand maynot be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Caribsea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. Theyhave 2 types.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesSince you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all ofthe plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can getthe clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plantsalthough some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sidesof the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing astructure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted.This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate.Something like Eco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > > >which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their CichlidSand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > >> >> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots.I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked onthem. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sandbut they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtrationsystems.This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > 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><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > 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><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > > You don'tmention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you aretalking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but themain thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up bysharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blastingsand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articlesreferencedabove listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesPlease note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot topoint it out in my message, oops, sorry.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: FW Sand SubstatesHey Gang!I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowersso it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters.I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get?Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any?Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too priceyor to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and goodfor this too.Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, somefake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sandas they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay potsand should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a goodidea?How much per gallon of tank to get?Thanks in advance! :DCheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile_____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:39:10 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:25:55 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:39:15 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32024	From: pam andress	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Adiction to the aquarium hobby

This is very true. Just yesterday my x and older daughter where here. They said I used to be the dog lady and now I'm the fishy lady. If I was still married, I sure wouldn't have all the tanks I have. When married, I only had 1- 20high. Now I have 10 tanks set up. Pam That's why they have divorce... lolBesides, the fish are much less expensive... at least compared to my ex-wifeand her Imelda Marcos like habits. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)i been thinking about that Lenny just the wife wont bodge . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

I use to keep a spread sheet of several hundred people (friends, associates, co-workers, etc. in a beach volleyball league so we would have once a month birthday parties for all in that month) so one of the fields in my spreadsheet was birthdays. 70% of my sample group had their birthdays in September, October or November. I came up with a theory... at least for down here in N'Awlins... but I think it might be applicable all over the USA and other similar climatologic areas. Also, factoring in that "alcohol is the leading cause of pregnancy"... lol.. at least that's what a BIG gallon sized souvenir beer mug that I had from one of my many spring break trips to Florida had on it. Down here, we are a well known party city starting with all of the Christmas parties, then New Years Eve parties, then the Mardi Gras season starts and runs through February with all the partying that takes place during those several weeks. Add those factors to it also being wintertime (meaning more snuggling and other indoor activities) and nine months later, you have a lot of babies being born in September, October and November. Even in the lesser party cities, wintertime is still a major contributing factor. I bet the southern hemisphere has a similarly higher birth rate in the nine months after their winter season. That's just my theory. LOL A snip "...More births occur in August than any other month..." may be from a reliable source, the U.S. Census Bureau, according to this article. http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS37359+11-May-2008+PRN2008051 1 Other Google results had folks giving similar conclusions as mine but blaming it mostly on wintertime. I still think alcohol has a lot to do with it... at least for down here in N'Awlins... the other Sin City! LOL Oh yeah.... FISH... just to keep it on topic. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:14 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday to everyone. Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> : Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it?You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely be something you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent : Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybethat's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or soBut I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of bufferingsand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go forthe pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect thepH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added intoor onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element.In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any ofthe pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black CichlidEco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of myreply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would beto buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent atumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would workbetter than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ m/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ m/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > > > > andthismore general page about tank setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > > >Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going withDojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-likewater movement system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > forfishlike the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches.Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe forburrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete CichlidSand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > > > > >>and then on the FAQ pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_compl ete_ <pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_comp lete_> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _ >> >> >_>sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and whatpH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a badthing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hardwater that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and runpeat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don'tneed/want it.This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has asection on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing withloaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand thatcauses the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml < <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <> > > > > > > >(scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the sectiontitled "BarbelErosion")Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heatedtank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miamiso it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are therewater coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand maynot be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Caribsea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. Theyhave 2 types.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesSince you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all ofthe plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can getthe clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plantsalthough some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sidesof the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing astructure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted.This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate.Something like Eco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <Eco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > > >which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their CichlidSand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > > >> >> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots.I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked onthem. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sandbut they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtrationsystems.This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <tanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > > > > You don'tmention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you aretalking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but themain thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up bysharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blastingsand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > (Links to articlesreferencedabove listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto: bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesPlease note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot topoint it out in my message, oops, sorry.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto: Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: FW Sand SubstatesHey Gang!I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowersso it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters.I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get?Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any?Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too priceyor to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and goodfor this too.Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, somefake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sandas they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay potsand should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a goodidea?How much per gallon of tank to get?Thanks in advance! :DCheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 7:46:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32026	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Hey Pam! Happy Bday! Mine was the 13th :D. You're right, maybe black then? I'd have to ask someone who already owns the same black sand to see what their opinion is I guess. For now I do like red. It gives it a lounge feel. Black is supposed to be very nice and I have seen natural black sand on a beach before. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:14:21 To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday to everyone. Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it?You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- ---From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the substr ate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely be something you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Aquati cLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Es tes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yaho ogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Sk eptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.bl ogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive?I look at most o f my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybethat's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or soBut I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of bufferingsand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go forthe pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect thepH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added intoor onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element.In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any ofthe pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black CichlidEco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of myreply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would beto buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent atumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would workbetter than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loac hes.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http:// www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > > andthismore general page about tank setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.lo aches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the -loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > >Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going withDojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-likewater movement system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/><http:/ /www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<htt p://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-i t/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > > > forfishlike the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches.Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe forburrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete CichlidSand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.cari bsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http:/ /www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > >>and then on the FAQ pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> >_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.ca ribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> >> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> >> >> >_>sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and whatpH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a badthing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hardwater that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and runpeat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don'tneed/want it.This article from The Skeptical Aquaris t (a well respected site) has asection on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing withloaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand thatcauses the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fis hes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.sk epticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > > >(scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the sectiontitled "BarbelErosion")Lenny Vasbind erFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blo gspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberr y.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heatedtank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miamiso it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are therewater coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand maynot be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Caribsea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. Theyhave 2 types.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%4 0gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesSince you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all ofthe plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can getthe clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plantsalthough some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sidesof the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing astructure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted.This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate.Something like Eco-completehttp://www.caribse a.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pr oducts/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > > >which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their CichlidSand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid 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mplete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_e co-complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > >> >> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots.I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked onthem. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sandbut they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtrationsystems.This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > 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><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum .com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sa nd.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > > You don'tmention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you aretalking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but themain thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up bysharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blastingsand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http: //GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blog spot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.bl ogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articlesreferencedabove listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.b lackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesPlease note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot topoint it out in my message, oops, sorry.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailt o:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: FW Sand SubstatesHey Gang!I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowersso it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters.I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get?Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any?Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too priceyor to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and goodfor this too.Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, somefake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sandas they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay potsand should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a goodidea?How much per gallon of tank to get?Thanks in advance! :DCheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile_____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:39:10 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:25:55 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:39:15 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32027	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Lolololol!! Yah, I agree with Lenny! Its the alcohol! Darn it! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:46:58 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I use to keep a spread sheet of several hundred people (friends, associates, co-workers, etc. in a beach volleyball league so we would have once a month birthday parties for all in that month) so one of the fields in my spreadsheet was birthdays. 70% of my sample group had their birthdays in September, October or November. I came up with a theory... at least for down here in N'Awlins... but I think it might be applicable all over the USA and other similar climatologic areas. Also, factoring in that "alcohol is the leading cause of pregnancy"... lol.. at least that's what a BIG gallon sized souvenir beer mug that I had from one of my many spring break trips to Florida had on it. Down here, we are a well known party city starting with all of the Christmas parties, then New Years Eve parties, then the Mardi Gras season starts and runs through February with all the partying that takes place during those several weeks. Add those factors to it also being wintertime (meaning more snuggling and other indoor activities) and nine months later, you have a lot of babies being born in September, October and November. Even in the lesser party cities, wintertime is still a major contributing factor. I bet the southern hemisphere has a similarly higher birth rate in the nine months after their winter season. That's just my theory. LOL A snip "...More births occur in August than any other month..." may be from a reliable source, the U.S. Census Bureau, according to this article. http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS37359+11-May-2008+PRN2008051 1 Other Google results had folks giving similar conclusions as mine but blaming it mostly on wintertime. I still think alcohol has a lot to do with it... at least for down here in N'Awlins... the other Sin City! LOL Oh yeah.... FISH... just to keep it on topic. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:14 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday to everyone. Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> : Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it?You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely be something you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent : Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybethat's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or soBut I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of bufferingsand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go forthe pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect thepH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added intoor onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element.In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any ofthe pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black CichlidEco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of myreply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would beto buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent atumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would workbetter than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ m/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ m/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > > > > andthismore general page about tank setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > > >Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going withDojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-likewater movement system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > forfishlike the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches.Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe forburrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete CichlidSand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > > > > >>and then on the FAQ pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_compl ete_ <pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_comp lete_> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _ >> >> >_>sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and whatpH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a badthing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hardwater that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and runpeat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don'tneed/want it.This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has asection on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing withloaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand thatcauses the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml < <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <> > > > > > > >(scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the sectiontitled "BarbelErosion")Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heatedtank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miamiso it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are therewater coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand maynot be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Caribsea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. Theyhave 2 types.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesSince you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all ofthe plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can getthe clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plantsalthough some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sidesof the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing astructure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted.This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate.Something like Eco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <Eco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > > >which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their CichlidSand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > > >> >> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots.I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked onthem. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sandbut they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtrationsystems.This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <tanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > > > > You don'tmention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you aretalking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but themain thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up bysharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blastingsand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > (Links to articlesreferencedabove listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto: bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesPlease note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot topoint it out in my message, oops, sorry.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto: Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: FW Sand SubstatesHey Gang!I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowersso it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters.I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get?Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any?Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too priceyor to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and goodfor this too.Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, somefake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sandas they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay potsand should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a goodidea?How much per gallon of tank to get?Thanks in advance! :DCheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 7:46:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32028	From: pam andress	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

I had a doctor once that shared my b-day (Oct 8th). He told me that many people have b-days around that time as the parents where celebrating New Years. I was month premature, so I said that my parents must have been celebrating Valentines Day. lol I also have a cousin and a friend that share the same b-day. Pam I use to keep a spread sheet of several hundred people (friends, associates,co-workers, etc. in a beach volleyball league so we would have once a monthbirthday parties for all in that month) so one of the fields in myspreadsheet was birthdays. 70% of my sample group had their birthdays inSeptember, October or November. I came up with a theory... at least for down here in N'Awlins... but I thinkit might be applicable all over the USA and other similar climatologicareas.Also, factoring in that "alcohol is the leading cause of pregnancy"... lol..at least that's what a BIG gallon sized souvenir beer mug that I had fromone of my many spring break trips to Florida had on it.Down here, we are a well known party city starting with all of the Christmasparties, then New Years Eve parties, then the Mardi Gras season starts andruns through February with all the partying that takes place during thoseseveral weeks. Add those factors to it also being wintertime (meaning moresnuggling and other indoor activities) and nine months later, you have a lotof babies being born in September, October and November. Even in the lesserparty cities, wintertime is still a major contributing factor.I bet the southern hemisphere has a similarly higher birth rate in the ninemonths after their winter season.That's just my theory. LOLA snip "...More births occur in August than any other month..." may be froma reliable source, the U.S. Census Bureau, according to this article.http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS37359+11-May-2008+PRN20080511Other Google results had folks giving similar conclusions as mine butblaming it mostly on wintertime. I still think alcohol has a lot to do withit... at least for down here in N'Awlins... the other Sin City! LOLOh yeah.... FISH... just to keep it on topic. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:14 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesWow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday toeveryone.Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to naturalbrowns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in themand would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it asnatural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it lookslike with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may notbe as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keepingtheir tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesThanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I hadScorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative"thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up withit... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girlsyet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> :Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it?You're right,maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty badsometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----OriginalMessage-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I wasborn on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don'tfollow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainlyunderstandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blameit onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good thatyou're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a naturalsubstrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices sincethey are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors ofgravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into plantedtanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changingout the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanksecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely besomething you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >(Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW SandSubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libraproblem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn'tknow at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced mychoice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about theblackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent viaBlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. akaGoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were lookingfor black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind!LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >(Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and willdo a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravelTania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From:bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comesin colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----OriginalMessage-----From: bubuci@...<mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFSthat has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you whenI have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't requiregrinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry fromT-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny"<GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's justan idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads whiletrying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it wasa rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a localrockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. Ijustthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and thepillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sandbetweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour ortwo.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillowcaseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down tookplace)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feelssmoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, theroughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it outto be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates fromsilt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a waterquality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand thatmight be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend afew dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a fewhours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > >(Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On BehalfOfbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW SandSubstatesLenny!On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take tosmooth it down ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is itexpensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry.Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand,maybethat's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 orsoBut I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because ofbufferingsand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I mayjust go forthe pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty.Colored peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be redcolor orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry fromT-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny"<GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26Oct 2008 21:51:38To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, plain old sand isgoing to be inert... that is, it won't affect thepH. Some sand or othersubstrate products do have added elements added intoor onto the sand to givethem buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonitehave this added element.In your case, without further research, none of theblack sands on any ofthe pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, BlackEco-Complete, Black CichlidEco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) aresuitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read further down to thelast paragraph of myreply for a different perspective on this question.Another option would beto buy one of the black sand products and then put itin a thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a largecoin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round theedges... or rent atumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in thetumbler would workbetter than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryerbut either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice article on abig sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora clown loach tank.. but it waslight colored sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ m/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ m/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > > > >andthismore general page about tanksetupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> >><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > > >Since youmentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going withDojo/Weatherloaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-likewater movementsystem...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > >forfishlike the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches.Which blacksand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe forburrowers/softbellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete CichlidSand but thatone has the buffer coating added to thesand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > > > >>>and then on the FAQpagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_<pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_ >> >> >_>sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pHlike and whatpH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may notnecessarily be a badthing since it says it will "...help to maintain thebasic (higher pH) hardwater that African Cichlids need..." If you haveenough driftwood and runpeat in your filter, you could negate the bufferingeffect if you don'tneed/want it.This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (awell respected site) has asection on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may beapplicable when dealing withloaches so it might not be the sharpness or sizeof the grain of sand thatcauses the problems as much as a bacterial issuerelated to waterquality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <> > > > > >> >(scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to thesectiontitled "BarbelErosion")Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >>(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side underArchives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Ofbubuci@...<mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent:Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!I don't have Cichlidsright now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2tanks, one I will haveBoesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heatedtank. The other will befor loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miamiso it never gets too cool,about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are therewater coolers avail as thereare heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand maynot be the right ph for my fish.There is one black sand I saw on the Caribsea site that said safe forburrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. Theyhave 2types.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----OriginalMessage-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesSince you are planning a planted tank, were you planning onputting all ofthe plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrowerissues? You can getthe clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" workfine for most plantsalthough some might need more root room. You could drillholes in the sidesof the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out whilestill providing astructure for holding the plants from becoming completelyuprooted.This is of course, if you are going with a planted tanksubstrate.Something likeEco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<Eco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > >>which has a black versionof their planted tank substrate or their CichlidSandhttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > > >>>> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots.I'msure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked onthem.I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sandbut theydo sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtrationsystems.Thisarticle has more info on common sands used in Cichlidtanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<tanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > > > > Youdon'tmention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what youaretalking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... butthemain thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn upbysharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the blackblastingsand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > (Links toarticlesreferencedabove listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Monthand under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On BehalfOfbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW SandSubstatesPlease note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, butforgot topoint it out in my message, oops, sorry.Sent via BlackBerry fromT-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: Bubuci@...<mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Sun,26 Oct 2008 23:57:52To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>Subject: FW Sand SubstatesHey Gang!I am thinking about getting a sandsubstrate for my tank. I have Burrowersso it must be burrower friendly, notchange my water parameters.I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyoneknow what I need to get?Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And thepros/cons if any?Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Blackwere too priceyor to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the mostcommon and goodfor this too.Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that mytank is semi-planted, somefake, some real. My burrowers may lift up andknock out roots now with sandas they will really go nuts burrowing. Wherecan I get those mini clay potsand should I add any special aquatic plantsoil to them? Is that a goodidea?How much per gallon of tank to get?Thanksin advance! :DCheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 7:46:57 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32029	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction

Ray, This was an all-species show for the Potomac Valley people, and anyone who wanted to show fish. There was more than the average number of catfish represented, however. I did not bring my camera along, mainly because I was only planning on staying for a couple of hours to see a few people, but I ended up being there most of the day, which actually would have given me time to try a few shots of some of the more unusual fish there. They did have some Anableps sp. Represented, and while small (about half full size) they looked to be in extraordinary good health. I'll need to look around to see if I can learn who they belonged to, since I certainly would like to try them again. The main problem is finding them in good health. When I was trying to get them to live about 25-30 years ago now, they came into the wholesaler in pretty poor shape, and I never had much success with them. I haven't seen any in the stores around here, so I do not have a clue where they came from. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction Hi \\Steve//, At last count early Saturday morning, I was told there were about 210 entries, somewhat lower than in previous shows. The final count may have been more at the noon entry deadline, I don't know, but I understand it may have been closer to 250 or 260. This was enough for a decent representation in most classes. We had well over 300 last year. The 190 or so catfish entries shown, broken up into the various classes of them, seems like a good showing for just one "group" of fish at that Convention. I'm sure those entries were broken up into a good number of different categories. We don't have the luxury of breaking them up into any more than 4 classes (Callichthyids/Corydoras, etc., Loricariids/Plecos, African Catfish and All Other Catfish), nor do we need to being an all-species show. Considering this wasn't a major event this year I think we did fairly well with entries, even though I'd have liked to have seen more. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > How many entries did you have in the show? The open show at the catfish > Convention the other week had 190 registered entries, but I do not know > what the final count was > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 10:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction > > Hi Donna, Good to hear (directly) from you. The show and auction > went well, as it always does; too bad you had to miss it. Lots of > Rift Lake Cichlids in the auction, if you would have needed > something. Lots of other bags of auction fish as well -- a large > variety of stuff. Don't know how many bags in all, but there were a > good number of them, keeping us there until after 6PM last night. > One thing I'd like to mention, as I know you have this fish, is that > there must have been nearly a million bags of Yellow Labs available > at the auction. Either everyone is breeding them, or one person is > really pumping them out. > > Would have replied here last night but I was too beat from a few real > long days, not to mention that I had show fish and auction fish to > put away when I got home. The show could have been larger (I've seen > larger in the past), but all-in-all, there was a good representation > of fish in all classes. A highlight of the show (at least for me) > was that the first president of the NJAS showed up and I got the > chance to meet him and to have a short chat with him. The club was > founded in April 1954 (not 1953 as everyone there insists on > believing), so its 54 years old this year. > > It was an honor meeting the first president, Joseph (Joe) F. Epper, > who is now 82 years old -- he had to be 28 when the club first > started. In answer to one of my questions to him, he still has fish > (3 Angelfish). I guess keeping fish keeps you going, as he looked > well; I had never met him before this but was glad I finally did so. > Undoubtedly, Hank will remember him, being an original member of the > club back then. You missed a good show, but I know if you could have > made it, you would have. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > Ray, how was it? I was not able to attend. > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Ahhh... forgot about Valentine's Day. And I'm sure it leads to many of them November birthdays. FISH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:20 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates I had a doctor once that shared my b-day (Oct 8th). He told me that many people have b-days around that time as the parents where celebrating New Years. I was month premature, so I said that my parents must have been celebrating Valentines Day. lol I also have a cousin and a friend that share the same b-day. Pam I use to keep a spread sheet of several hundred people (friends, associates,co-workers, etc. in a beach volleyball league so we would have once a monthbirthday parties for all in that month) so one of the fields in myspreadsheet was birthdays. 70% of my sample group had their birthdays inSeptember, October or November. I came up with a theory... at least for down here in N'Awlins... but I thinkit might be applicable all over the USA and other similar climatologicareas.Also, factoring in that "alcohol is the leading cause of pregnancy"... lol..at least that's what a BIG gallon sized souvenir beer mug that I had fromone of my many spring break trips to Florida had on it.Down here, we are a well known party city starting with all of the Christmasparties, then New Years Eve parties, then the Mardi Gras season starts andruns through February with all the partying that takes place during thoseseveral weeks. Add those factors to it also being wintertime (meaning moresnuggling and other indoor activities) and nine months later, you have a lotof babies being born in September, October and November. Even in the lesserparty cities, wintertime is still a major contributing factor.I bet the southern hemisphere has a similarly higher birth rate in the ninemonths after their winter season.That's just my theory. LOLA snip "...More births occur in August than any other month..." may be froma reliable source, the U.S. Census Bureau, according to this article.http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS37359+11-May-2008+PR N20080511Other <article.http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS37359+11-May-2008+P RN20080511Other> Google results had folks giving similar conclusions as mine butblaming it mostly on wintertime. I still think alcohol has a lot to do withit... at least for down here in N'Awlins... the other Sin City! LOLOh yeah.... FISH... just to keep it on topic. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:14 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesWow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday toeveryone.Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to naturalbrowns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in themand would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it asnatural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it lookslike with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may notbe as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keepingtheir tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 -0500Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesThanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I hadScorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative"thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up withit... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girlsyet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> :Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it?You're right,maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty badsometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----OriginalMessage-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I wasborn on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don'tfollow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainlyunderstandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blameit onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good thatyou're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a naturalsubstrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices sincethey are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors ofgravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into plantedtanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changingout the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanksecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely besomething you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >(Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent : Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW SandSubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libraproblem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn'tknow at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced mychoice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about theblackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent viaBlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. akaGoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were lookingfor black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind!LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and underLabels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and willdo a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravelTania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From:bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comesin colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----OriginalMessage-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFSthat has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you whenI have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't requiregrinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry fromT-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny"<GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's justan idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads whiletrying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it wasa rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a localrockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. Ijustthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and thepillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sandbetweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour ortwo.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillowcaseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down tookplace)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feelssmoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, theroughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it outto be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates fromsilt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a waterquality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand thatmight be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend afew dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a fewhours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives-Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On BehalfOfbubuci@... <mailto:BehalfOfbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><m ailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW SandSubstatesLenny!On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take tosmooth it down ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is itexpensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry.Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand,maybethat's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 orsoBut I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because ofbufferingsand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I mayjust go forthe pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty.Colored peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be redcolor orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry fromT-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny"<GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26Oct 2008 21:51:38To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, plain old sand isgoing to be inert... that is, it won't affect thepH. Some sand or othersubstrate products do have added elements added intoor onto the sand to givethem buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonitehave this added element.In your case, without further research, none of theblack sands on any ofthe pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, BlackEco-Complete, Black CichlidEco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) aresuitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read further down to thelast paragraph of myreply for a different perspective on this question.Another option would beto buy one of the black sand products and then put itin a thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a largecoin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round theedges... or rent atumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in thetumbler would workbetter than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryerbut either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice article on abig sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora clown loach tank.. but it waslight colored sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> <sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > m/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > m/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > > > > > >andthismore general page about tanksetupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <tanksetupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> <setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > >><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > > > > >Since youmentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going withDojo/Weatherloaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-likewater movementsystem...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <movementsystem...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> <system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > > >forfishlike the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches.Which blacksand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe forburrowers/softbellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete CichlidSand but thatone has the buffer coating added to thesand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <thesand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> <sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > >>>and then on the FAQpagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mplete_ <FAQpagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete_> <pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_comp lete_ <pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_comp lete_> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complet e_ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _ <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete _> > >> >> >_>sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pHlike and whatpH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may notnecessarily be a badthing since it says it will "...help to maintain thebasic (higher pH) hardwater that African Cichlids need..." If you haveenough driftwood and runpeat in your filter, you could negate the bufferingeffect if you don'tneed/want it.This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (awell respected site) has asection on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may beapplicable when dealing withloaches so it might not be the sharpness or sizeof the grain of sand thatcauses the problems as much as a bacterial issuerelated to waterquality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <waterquality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> <quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <> > > > > >> >(scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to thesectiontitled "BarbelErosion")Lenny VasbinderFish Blog -http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > >>(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side underArchives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><m ailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailt o:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent:Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!I don't have Cichlidsright now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2tanks, one I will haveBoesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heatedtank. The other will befor loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miamiso it never gets too cool,about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are therewater coolers avail as thereare heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand maynot be the right ph for my fish.There is one black sand I saw on the Caribsea site that said safe forburrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. Theyhave 2types.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----OriginalMessage-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenn y%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><m ailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FWSand SubstatesSince you are planning a planted tank, were you planning onputting all ofthe plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrowerissues? You can getthe clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" workfine for most plantsalthough some might need more root room. You could drillholes in the sidesof the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out whilestill providing astructure for holding the plants from becoming completelyuprooted.This is of course, if you are going with a planted tanksubstrate.Something likeEco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <likeEco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> <Eco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <Eco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > > > >>which has a black versionof their planted tank substrate or their CichlidSandhttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html <CichlidSandhttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > > > >>>> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots.I'msure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked onthem.I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sandbut theydo sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtrationsystems.Thisarticle has more info on common sands used in Cichlidtanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <Cichlidtanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> <tanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <tanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > > > > > > Youdon'tmention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what youaretalking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... butthemain thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn upbysharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the blackblastingsand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links toarticlesreferencedabove listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Monthand under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On BehalfOfbubuci@... <mailto:BehalfOfbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><m ailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailt o:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PMTo:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW SandSubstatesPlease note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, butforgot topoint it out in my message, oops, sorry.Sent via BlackBerry fromT-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto: Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubu ci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Sun,26 Oct 2008 23:57:52To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>Subject: FW Sand SubstatesHey Gang!I am thinking about getting a sandsubstrate for my tank. I have Burrowersso it must be burrower friendly, notchange my water parameters.I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyoneknow what I need to get?Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And thepros/cons if any?Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Blackwere too priceyor to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the mostcommon and goodfor this too.Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that mytank is semi-planted, somefake, some real. My burrowers may lift up andknock out roots now with sandas they will really go nuts burrowing. Wherecan I get those mini clay potsand should I add any special aquatic plantsoil to them? Is that a goodidea?How much per gallon of tank to get?Thanksin advance! :DCheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 8:30:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32031	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Dying Apple Snail

So I fed all my fish the live Brine, course there were a few dead but the fish seemed to avoid them. Now one of my Apple Snails is totally hanging out of his shell. He's in a qt tank with clean water, no meds. What do you think happened? He ate some bad brine? Can I saVe him? Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32032	From: Mike Huey	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: another Libra and fish stuff....

Me, too! My birthday's on the second. I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. Thanks, Jackie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday to everyone. > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely be something you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message---- -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile---- -Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybethat's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or soBut I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of bufferingsand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go forthe pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect thepH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added intoor onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element.In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any ofthe pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black CichlidEco- Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of myreply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would beto buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent atumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would workbetter than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > > andthismore general page about tank setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > >Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going withDojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-likewater movement system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a- river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs- through-it/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > > > forfishlike the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches.Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe forburrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco- Complete CichlidSand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > > >>and then on the FAQ pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco _complete_<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq _af_eco_complete_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid /faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/c ichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_wi ndow/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> >_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco _complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_ af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/fa q/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> >> >_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco _complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_ af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/fa q/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> >> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> >> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> >> >> >_>sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and whatpH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a badthing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hardwater that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and runpeat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don'tneed/want it.This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has asection on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing withloaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand thatcauses the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml< http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml><http:// www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skep ticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaqu arist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > > >(scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the sectiontitled "BarbelErosion")Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heatedtank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miamiso it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are therewater coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand maynot be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Caribsea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. Theyhave 2 types.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesSince you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all ofthe plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can getthe clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plantsalthough some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sidesof the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing astructure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted.This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate.Something like Eco- completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http ://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html><http://www.cari bsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pag es/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/ planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www 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m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > > >which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their CichlidSand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- 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complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- 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complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > > >> >> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots.I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked onthem. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sandbut they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtrationsystems.This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks.http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > > You don'tmention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you aretalking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but themain thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up bysharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blastingsand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articlesreferencedabove listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message---- -From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesPlease note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot topoint it out in my message, oops, sorry.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message---- -From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: FW Sand SubstatesHey Gang!I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowersso it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters.I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get?Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any?Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too priceyor to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and goodfor this too.Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, somefake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sandas they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay potsand should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a goodidea?How much per gallon of tank to get?Thanks in advance! :DCheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile_____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:39:10 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:25:55 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:39:15 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32033	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights

Lol Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:35:07 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Four sisters??? So five of you altogether? Darn.. why can't I have a family like that living next door to me! ;-) There must be something good in the water down there... at least for the guys. And don't count out the koo koo ones... heck, I thought all of you were... LOL ... at least all the girls I've dated seem to have been. If I was to dismiss koo koo girls, there might not be any girls left... and I'm not bad-off enough yet to move to San Francisco. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Lol! Omg what rock have I been living under? How embarrassing! Thanks so much for that info again! Ok I'm gonna have to go check one out. I actually hardly shop except for necessities. Times are tough right now as we all know and I do have 4 sisters! All single, but forget about two of them, they're koo koo, the others: one has a bf and one is single so hmmmmm. ;-) Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:51:51 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Dang... you better notify WalMart.. they may not know. LOL I have five of them within 5 miles of me (and three within 2 miles with another one being built right now), if you count the SuperCenters, regular WalMarts, WalMart Market (groceries) and Sam's Clubs. I just did a Google search on - Wal-Mart 33129 - and it came up with six stores in that zip code... and a Google map with the pins showing their location and two or three of them look like they're SuperCenters. http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8> <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129> &oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 > > &oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 http://www.WalMart.com <http://www.WalMart.com> using their Find A Store and your zip code found this list of nearby stores... dang, they're everywhere around you. http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=AL <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A L> L <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A > > LL&sfatt=ALL&rx_title=&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfsearch_zip=33129> &sfatt=ALL&rx_title=&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfsearch_zip=33129 We found 20 stores near 33129 : (The above link will give the actual stores addresses, phone numbers, etc.) 1. Miami, FL 33126 2. Hialeah Gardens, FL 33016 3. North Miami Beach, FL 33162 4. Miami Gardens, FL 33169 5. Hialeah, FL 33015 6. Miami Gardens (Prop, FL 33056 7. Kendall, FL 33186 8. Miramar, FL 33025 9. Hallandale, FL 33009 10. Pembroke Pines, FL 33029 11. Cooper City, FL 33330 12. Florida City, FL 33034 13. Plantation, FL 33322 14. Sunrise, FL 33323 15. Lauderdale Lakes, FL 33313 16. Sunrise, FL 33351 17. North Lauderdale, FL 33068 18. Pompano Beach, FL 33069 Now Open 19. Pompano Beach, FL 33069 20. Coral Springs, FL 33071 There also seems to be one in 33130 that isn't on the above list: The Google maps feature says it's within 2,500 feet (1/2 mile) of 33139 zip code. WAL Mart Supercenter 1108 SW 10th St Miami, FL 33130 (305) 470-4505‎ It looks like it's on the corner of SW 12th Ave and SW 8th Street (aka Calle Ocho) BTW... do you have a sister that would like to relocate and get married? Any woman that doesn't know about every nearby place to shop might have a place in my heart... and wallet.... unless ya'll only shop at the expensive malls or upscale department stores.. then you can keep her down there. LOL ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Carolyn + Lenny, Thanks so much for your replies. The problem is there's no Walmart near where I live since I last checked. I'm in 33129, ill check again. Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Morse <mocode1@... <mailto:mocode1%40yahoo.com> <mailto:mocode1%40yahoo.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:59:18 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Tania, Hello, my name is Carolyn~new to this scene. I have always bought my lighting at a pet store but since my move I went down in aquarium size as well as not having a good pet store near by. WalMart is it and I actually just bought a small irredesant bulb there, I didn't like the one that came with the tank. Have a great day, Carolyn --- On Tue, 10/28/08, bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > wrote: > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 9:17 AM Hey Gang! > > I need to upgrade my bulbs. I got my tank at Petsupermarket but they > don't have the lights I need. I have some plants so I think ill need > about 150 w in a 55 g right? Its a marineland tank, takes Eclipse > natural daylight 18". > Where can I look for these? > > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 6:35:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((÷>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((÷> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((÷> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <÷((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<÷((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<÷((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32034	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

I bet she flushed them. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Thanks Heather. Darn.. and I was just thinking about which Christmas > presents I could buy after adding up what my commission check was going to > be from all these Apple Snail sales.... maybe 50 cents or a dollar just from > the interested parties here. LOL > > I'm glad she found an LFS to take them and I hope they gave her a decent > amount of store credit for them. My LFS gives me at least 50% of their > retail price when I bring them a batch of Cherry Shrimp. Unfortunately, I > don't buy as much from them anymore (since Katrina) so I'm building up a > nice credit balance with them. They don't mind though. They are getting > inventory they can sell and not have to pay for it for months or years > later. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails > > Just so everyone knows. She has found a place to take them. She sent me an > email. > > Heather > > -----Original Message----- > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails > > Cindy, do they add much bioload to a tank? How many gallons required per > snail? I may want one;D > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "jcjjj5" <jgilber1@... <mailto:jgilber1%40san.rr.com> > > > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:55:24 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails > > Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer > system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what > to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a > lot of luck in that. > Cindy > www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 10:11:34 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

No she didn't. One of our members heard directly from her and she found someone to take them all off of her hands. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Apple Snails I bet she flushed them. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Thanks Heather. Darn.. and I was just thinking about which Christmas > presents I could buy after adding up what my commission check was going to > be from all these Apple Snail sales.... maybe 50 cents or a dollar just from > the interested parties here. LOL > > I'm glad she found an LFS to take them and I hope they gave her a > decent amount of store credit for them. My LFS gives me at least 50% > of their retail price when I bring them a batch of Cherry Shrimp. Unfortunately, I > don't buy as much from them anymore (since Katrina) so I'm building up > a nice credit balance with them. They don't mind though. They are getting > inventory they can sell and not have to pay for it for months or years > later. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of ¤H3ATH3R¤ > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails > > Just so everyone knows. She has found a place to take them. She sent me an > email. > > Heather > > -----Original Message----- > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails > > Cindy, do they add much bioload to a tank? How many gallons required > per snail? I may want one;D > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "jcjjj5" <jgilber1@... <mailto:jgilber1%40san.rr.com> > > > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:55:24 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Apple Snails > > Would it be appropriate to let my excess snails go in the local sewer > system. I have 100 and they're getting old enough to breed. Don't know what > to do...I'm trying to trade them for fish food at the local store, but not a > lot of luck in that. > Cindy > www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 > 10:11:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 8:54:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:11:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32036	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

As you did not find a single hit for a search on "Estes Sand," I'd suggest your changing search engines as you are short-changing yourself in obtaining info, and may be short-changing yourself in getting info on other aquarium related topics as well. I just did a search on this using Google, using these same two words, and came up with 89,600 hits. Haven't had the chance to go through them all yet (LOL). If the original poster of this thread had perused the archives, it would have been found that my message # 25699, posted on February 4th this year, referred to Clifford W. Estes Company as selling colored substrate for aquariums. While I did not go into detail there, as the thread did not warrant it, I'd have been glad to fill in any further info on this supplier with further question. I'd venture to say that probably all aquarium related topics and problems can be found in the archives as there is nothing we haven't covered before -- and there is nothing new under the sun. The decorative aggregate company of Clifford W. Estes, supplier for aquarium, construction and craft outlets was founded in 1847, more than 150 years ago. They started supplying the aquarium trade with colored gravel some 40 or so years ago and have added colored sand (both non-buffering natural and processed/artificially colored) more recently. While I don't use it in contemporary settings, I have used it as far back as 40 years ago in shows in the late 1960's in educational "theme" tanks as a substrate to compliment the displayed fish. As examples, I remember using black gravel sprinkled with red gravel as a substrate for adult Oscars and light blue gravel to go along with the subtle undertones in silver Veil Angels. As can be seen, these substrates by Estes have been around for some time. The various colored gravels come in different grades (sizes). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about loaches and > this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single hit on > Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did find some > happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. > > You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth enough for > your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bubuci@... > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and > is nice. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another > brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more > info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. > > Cheers, > Tania > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had > read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a > suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock > collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock > collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just > thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow > case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between > your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. > Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case > anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) > and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth > enough. > > Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the > substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in > the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms > to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial > issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the > problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a > commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help > take some of the edges off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Lenny! > > On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in > a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? > > I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the > same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe > that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7- 7.4 or so > But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering > sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for > the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea > pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or > something unusual like that. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the > pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into > or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the > CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. > > In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of > the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid > Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied > fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my > reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be > to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable > pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer > (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a > tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work > better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one > would still round the edges. > > I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for > a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. > http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > and this more > general page about tank setups > http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with > Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like > water movement system... > http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > for fish like > the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. > > Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for > burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco- Complete Cichlid > Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > and > then on the FAQ page > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_com plete_ > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mplete > _> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mplete > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mplete > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mplete > > > > _> > sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what > pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad > thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard > water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run > peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't > need/want it. > > This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a > section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with > loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that > causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > (scroll > down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled > "Barbel > Erosion") > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Lenny! > > I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 > tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated > tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami > so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there > water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may > not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib > sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They > have 2 types. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of > the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get > the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants > although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides > of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a > structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. > > This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. > Something like Eco-complete > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > which has a > black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > if you > are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. > > I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on > them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand > but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration > systems. > > This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what > you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... > but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn > up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black > blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to > point it out in my message, oops, sorry. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: FW Sand Substates > > Hey Gang! > > I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers > so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. > > I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? > Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? > > Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey > or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good > for this too. > > Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some > fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand > as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots > and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good > idea? > > How much per gallon of tank to get? > > Thanks in advance! :D > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > _____ > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:33:51 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32037	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

I was searching just the Loaches.com site using their search feature. I was trying to find if they had any threads or articles concerning this brand of sand to see if it was a smoother sand or a coarser sand for burrowing loaches but found nothing on this brand. Here is my sentence in my previous reply, "... I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single hit on Estes Sand..." I'm not sure if something might not be working right with their search feature since I find it hard to believe they've never discussed it or have it mentioned in an article... but the search feature found nothing. I didn't try to use Google with an advanced search of just the loaches.com site. I guess it was Loaches.com search feature as I just did an advanced search on Google, just searching Loaches.com and got 160 hits. For the original poster (OP), go to Google and put this in the search field without the quotes "estes sand site:loaches.com" to look over the forum posts discussing Estes Sand. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates As you did not find a single hit for a search on "Estes Sand," I'd suggest your changing search engines as you are short-changing yourself in obtaining info, and may be short-changing yourself in getting info on other aquarium related topics as well. I just did a search on this using Google, using these same two words, and came up with 89,600 hits. Haven't had the chance to go through them all yet (LOL). If the original poster of this thread had perused the archives, it would have been found that my message # 25699, posted on February 4th this year, referred to Clifford W. Estes Company as selling colored substrate for aquariums. While I did not go into detail there, as the thread did not warrant it, I'd have been glad to fill in any further info on this supplier with further question. I'd venture to say that probably all aquarium related topics and problems can be found in the archives as there is nothing we haven't covered before -- and there is nothing new under the sun. The decorative aggregate company of Clifford W. Estes, supplier for aquarium, construction and craft outlets was founded in 1847, more than 150 years ago. They started supplying the aquarium trade with colored gravel some 40 or so years ago and have added colored sand (both non-buffering natural and processed/artificially colored) more recently. While I don't use it in contemporary settings, I have used it as far back as 40 years ago in shows in the late 1960's in educational "theme" tanks as a substrate to compliment the displayed fish. As examples, I remember using black gravel sprinkled with red gravel as a substrate for adult Oscars and light blue gravel to go along with the subtle undertones in silver Veil Angels. As can be seen, these substrates by Estes have been around for some time. The various colored gravels come in different grades (sizes). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about loaches and > this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single hit on > Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did find some > happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. > > You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth enough for > your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bubuci@... > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and > is nice. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another > brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more > info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. > > Cheers, > Tania > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had > read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a > suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock > collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock > collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just > thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow > case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between > your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. > Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case > anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) > and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth > enough. > > Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the > substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in > the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms > to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial > issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the > problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a > commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help > take some of the edges off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Lenny! > > On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in > a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? > > I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the > same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe > that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7- 7.4 or so > But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering > sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for > the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea > pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or > something unusual like that. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the > pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into > or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the > CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. > > In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of > the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid > Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied > fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my > reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be > to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable > pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer > (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a > tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work > better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one > would still round the edges. > > I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for > a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. > http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > and this more > general page about tank setups > http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with > Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like > water movement system... > http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > for fish like > the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. > > Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for > burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco- Complete Cichlid > Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > and > then on the FAQ page > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_com <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_com> plete_ > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co> > mplete > _> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co> > mplete > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co> > mplete > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co> > mplete > > > > _> > sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what > pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad > thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard > water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run > peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't > need/want it. > > This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a > section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with > loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that > causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > (scroll > down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled > "Barbel > Erosion") > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Lenny! > > I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 > tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated > tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami > so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there > water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may > not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib > sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They > have 2 types. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of > the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get > the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants > although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides > of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a > structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. > > This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. > Something like Eco-complete > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > which has a > black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > if you > are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. > > I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on > them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand > but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration > systems. > > This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what > you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... > but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn > up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black > blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to > point it out in my message, oops, sorry. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: FW Sand Substates > > Hey Gang! > > I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers > so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. > > I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? > Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? > > Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey > or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good > for this too. > > Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some > fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand > as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots > and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good > idea? > > How much per gallon of tank to get? > > Thanks in advance! :D > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > _____ > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 > 4:33:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:18:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:42:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32038	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Thanks Ray Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:17:35 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates As you did not find a single hit for a search on "Estes Sand," I'd suggest your changing search engines as you are short-changing yourself in obtaining info, and may be short-changing yourself in getting info on other aquarium related topics as well. I just did a search on this using Google, using these same two words, and came up with 89,600 hits. Haven't had the chance to go through them all yet (LOL). If the original poster of this thread had perused the archives, it would have been found that my message # 25699, posted on February 4th this year, referred to Clifford W. Estes Company as selling colored substrate for aquariums. While I did not go into detail there, as the thread did not warrant it, I'd have been glad to fill in any further info on this supplier with further question. I'd venture to say that probably all aquarium related topics and problems can be found in the archives as there is nothing we haven't covered before -- and there is nothing new under the sun. The decorative aggregate company of Clifford W. Estes, supplier for aquarium, construction and craft outlets was founded in 1847, more than 150 years ago. They started supplying the aquarium trade with colored gravel some 40 or so years ago and have added colored sand (both non-buffering natural and processed/artificially colored) more recently. While I don't use it in contemporary settings, I have used it as far back as 40 years ago in shows in the late 1960's in educational "theme" tanks as a substrate to compliment the displayed fish. As examples, I remember using black gravel sprinkled with red gravel as a substrate for adult Oscars and light blue gravel to go along with the subtle undertones in silver Veil Angels. As can be seen, these substrates by Estes have been around for some time. The various colored gravels come in different grades (sizes). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about loaches and > this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a single hit on > Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did find some > happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. > > You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth enough for > your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bubuci@... > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors and > is nice. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has another > brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have more > info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. > > Cheers, > Tania > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I had > read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find a > suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock > collector and had their own already so you might check with a local rock > collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I just > thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillow > case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand between > your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. > Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow case > anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place) > and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smooth > enough. > > Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of the > substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since in > the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottoms > to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterial > issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing the > problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on a > commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to help > take some of the edges off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Lenny! > > On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down in > a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? > > I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not the > same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybe > that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7- 7.4 or so > But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of buffering > sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go for > the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored pea > pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color or > something unusual like that. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect the > pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added into > or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the > CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. > > In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any of > the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black Cichlid > Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft bellied > fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of my > reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would be > to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealable > pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer > (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent a > tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would work > better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either one > would still round the edges. > > I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) for > a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. > http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > and this more > general page about tank setups > http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with > Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-like > water movement system... > http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > for fish like > the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. > > Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for > burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco- Complete Cichlid > Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > and > then on the FAQ page > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_com plete_ > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mplete >_> > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mplete > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mplete > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co mplete > > > >_> > sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and what > pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a bad > thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hard > water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and run > peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don't > need/want it. > > This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has a > section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing with > loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand that > causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > (scroll > down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section titled > "Barbel > Erosion") > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Lenny! > > I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2 > tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heated > tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miami > so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are there > water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand may > not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Carib > sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. They > have 2 types. > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all of > the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can get > the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plants > although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sides > of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing a > structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. > > This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. > Something like Eco-complete > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > which has a > black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > if you > are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. > > I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked on > them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sand > but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtration > systems. > > This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what > you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... > but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn > up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black > blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot to > point it out in my message, oops, sorry. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: FW Sand Substates > > Hey Gang! > > I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowers > so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. > > I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get? > Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any? > > Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too pricey > or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and good > for this too. > > Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, some > fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sand > as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay pots > and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a good > idea? > > How much per gallon of tank to get? > > Thanks in advance! :D > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > >_____ > > > > > >_____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:33:51 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32039	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess

One thing that I have learned over the years is do not listen to the guy at the pet store. He is usually some kid who just wants some extra cash after school or someone who has never experienced keeping half of the fish that the store carries. The only problem that I see in your tank is size differences, a full grown molly measures roughly 4-4 1/2 inches and full grown neon tetra measures about one inch so with this in mind a molly will have no problem taking out a neon tetra. The whole livebearer and salt thing all depends on the quality of water at your pet store. I've kept both platies and mollies that have lived for about 2 years until I gave them to my father, and I did it without salt. Most plecos if weaned onto the salt properly will tolerate a small amount of salt, but the focus here is no salt. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jjmiltner" <jjmiltner@...> wrote: > > I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. > 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy > at the pet store didn't know about that. > I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I > took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 > teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time > at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and > No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. > I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't > fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going > to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks) What > kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? > Thanks > Jennie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32040	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Okay, not being familiar with < Loaches.com > as a website, I thought this may have been a search engine down N.O.'s way that I was also unfamiliar with. It would seem reasonable to expect such substrate to have been discussed at one time or another on a Loach site though, just as I would expect to see something of it on a Cory site. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I was searching just the Loaches.com site using their search feature. I was > trying to find if they had any threads or articles concerning this brand of > sand to see if it was a smoother sand or a coarser sand for burrowing > loaches but found nothing on this brand. > > Here is my sentence in my previous reply, "... I did a search on Loaches.com > and didn't find a single hit on Estes Sand..." > > I'm not sure if something might not be working right with their search > feature since I find it hard to believe they've never discussed it or have > it mentioned in an article... but the search feature found nothing. I > didn't try to use Google with an advanced search of just the loaches.com > site. > > I guess it was Loaches.com search feature as I just did an advanced search > on Google, just searching Loaches.com and got 160 hits. > > For the original poster (OP), go to Google and put this in the search field > without the quotes "estes sand site:loaches.com" to look over the forum > posts discussing Estes Sand. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > As you did not find a single hit for a search on "Estes Sand," I'd suggest > your changing search engines as you are short-changing yourself in obtaining > info, and may be short-changing yourself in getting info on other aquarium > related topics as well. I just did a search on this using Google, using > these same two words, and came up with 89,600 hits. Haven't had the chance > to go through them all yet (LOL). > > If the original poster of this thread had perused the archives, it would > have been found that my message # 25699, posted on February 4th this year, > referred to Clifford W. Estes Company as selling colored substrate for > aquariums. While I did not go into detail there, as the thread did not > warrant it, I'd have been glad to fill in any further info on this supplier > with further question. I'd venture to say that probably all aquarium related > topics and problems can be found in the archives as there is nothing we > haven't covered before -- and there is nothing new under the sun. > > The decorative aggregate company of Clifford W. Estes, supplier for > aquarium, construction and craft outlets was founded in 1847, more than 150 > years ago. They started supplying the aquarium trade with colored gravel > some 40 or so years ago and have added colored sand (both non- buffering > natural and processed/artificially colored) more recently. While I don't use > it in contemporary settings, I have used it as far back as 40 years ago in > shows in the late 1960's in educational "theme" tanks as a substrate to > compliment the displayed fish. As examples, I remember using black gravel > sprinkled with red gravel as a substrate for adult Oscars and light blue > gravel to go along with the subtle undertones in silver Veil Angels. As can > be seen, these substrates by Estes have been around for some time. The > various colored gravels come in different grades (sizes). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about > loaches and > > this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a > single hit on > > Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did > find some > > happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. > > > > You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth > enough for > > your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of bubuci@ > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in > colors and > > is nice. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that > has another > > brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have > more > > info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Thanks, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an > idea I had > > read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to > find a > > suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock > > collector and had their own already so you might check with a local > rock > > collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the > rocks. I just > > thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the > pillow > > case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand > between > > your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. > > Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow > case > > anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took > place) > > and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels > smooth > > enough. > > > > Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness > of the > > substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be > since in > > the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy > bottoms > > to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and > bacterial > > issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be > causing the > > problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few > dollars on a > > commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just > to help > > take some of the edges off. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Lenny! > > > > On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it > down in > > a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? > > > > I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. > Not the > > same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black > sand, maybe > > that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7- > 7.4 or so > > But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of > buffering > > sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may > just go for > > the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. > Colored pea > > pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color > or > > something unusual like that. > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't > affect the > > pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements > added into > > or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the > > CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. > > > > In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on > any of > > the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, > Black Cichlid > > Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft > bellied > > fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph > of my > > reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option > would be > > to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick > sealable > > pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes > dryer > > (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or > rent a > > tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would > work > > better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but > either one > > would still round the edges. > > > > I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some > pebbles) for > > a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. > > http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > and > this more > > general page about tank setups > > http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with > > Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this > River-like > > water movement system... > > http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > for > fish like > > the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. > > > > Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for > > burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco- > Complete Cichlid > > Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > > and > > then on the FAQ page > > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_com > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co m> > plete_ > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > > > mplete > > _> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > > > mplete > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > > > mplete > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > > > mplete > > > > > > _> > > sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like > and what > > pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily > be a bad > > thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher > pH) hard > > water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood > and run > > peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you > don't > > need/want it. > > > > This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) > has a > > section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when > dealing with > > loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of > sand that > > causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water > quality. > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > (scroll > > down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section > titled > > "Barbel > > Erosion") > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@ > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Lenny! > > > > I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I > have 2 > > tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a > heated > > tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm > in Miami > > so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. > Are there > > water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid > sand may > > not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on > the Carib > > sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for > FW. They > > have 2 types. > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting > all of > > the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? > You can get > > the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most > plants > > although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in > the sides > > of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still > providing a > > structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. > > > > This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. > > Something like Eco-complete > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > which > has a > > black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > if you > > are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. > > > > I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never > checked on > > them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a > black sand > > but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool > filtration > > systems. > > > > This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that > is what > > you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us > know... > > but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't > get torn > > up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the > black > > blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@ > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but > forgot to > > point it out in my message, oops, sorry. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bubuci@ <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: FW Sand Substates > > > > Hey Gang! > > > > I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have > Burrowers > > so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. > > > > I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need > to get? > > Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if > any? > > > > Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too > pricey > > or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common > and good > > for this too. > > > > Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi- planted, > some > > fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now > with sand > > as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini > clay pots > > and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a > good > > idea? > > > > How much per gallon of tank to get? > > > > Thanks in advance! :D > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 > > 4:33:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:18:24 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:42:32 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32041	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: plants for shrimp

Off of the top of my head I can think of 2 plants that fit your sizes, "compacta sword" and cryptocoryne wendtii. But, you can go to www.aquaspotworld.com and get a much better explanation of care and sizes than I can give. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William" <willyb1972020@...> wrote: > > What kind of plants do freshwater shrimp like? I have a 120gal. tank > and want to add some shrimp (like ghost shrimp and plants. i have > guppys, tetras, platys in the tank. i am looking for two def. Plants > about the size of 8" tall by 4" wide and a plant around 4" tall by 4" > wide. If anyone can help me it would realy help me. I would really like > some help THANK YOU ALL >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32042	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: piranhas, fry

While I have not read much on piranha breeding I do not they are not known to exhibit cichlid type parental care so maybe they have been eating the eggs. Or if you have any burrowing type snails they may have eaten them when you turn your lights off at night. So you may want to try removing the eggs and raising them yourself if you have the space. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rcdtrc" <rcdtrc@...> wrote: > > my piranhas have mated 3 or 4 times within this month, each time i see > lots of eggs then they seem to dissapear and i only see a few maturing > and so far i only have like 10 fry > i have no idea why they keep on mating and why so few survive > i took out all the other fish in the tank that coul have eaten the eggs > is there a way to effectively decrease the mortality rate? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32043	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction

Alright, that one threw me. I had expected the entries were all catfish -- being as it was a Catfish Convention, much the same as I would expect only Cichlids in a Cichlid (ACA) Convention or only Livebearers in a Livebearer (ALA) Convention. Those Anableps are sure different, I always thought they were neat. I know a small contingent of NJAS members went to the Catfish Convention; its possible those fish may have come from up here. A member of the club, whom you may know, by the name of Dean Majorino was breeding them a short time ago. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > This was an all-species show for the Potomac Valley people, and anyone > who wanted to show fish. There was more than the average number of > catfish represented, however. I did not bring my camera along, mainly > because I was only planning on staying for a couple of hours to see a > few people, but I ended up being there most of the day, which actually > would have given me time to try a few shots of some of the more unusual > fish there. > > They did have some Anableps sp. Represented, and while small (about half > full size) they looked to be in extraordinary good health. I'll need to > look around to see if I can learn who they belonged to, since I > certainly would like to try them again. The main problem is finding them > in good health. When I was trying to get them to live about 25-30 years > ago now, they came into the wholesaler in pretty poor shape, and I never > had much success with them. I haven't seen any in the stores around > here, so I do not have a clue where they came from. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and Auction > > Hi \\Steve//, At last count early Saturday morning, I was told there > were about 210 entries, somewhat lower than in previous shows. The > final count may have been more at the noon entry deadline, I don't > know, but I understand it may have been closer to 250 or 260. This > was enough for a decent representation in most classes. We had well > over 300 last year. > > The 190 or so catfish entries shown, broken up into the various > classes of them, seems like a good showing for just one "group" of > fish at that Convention. I'm sure those entries were broken up into > a good number of different categories. We don't have the luxury of > breaking them up into any more than 4 classes > (Callichthyids/Corydoras, etc., Loricariids/Plecos, African Catfish > and All Other Catfish), nor do we need to being an all-species show. > Considering this wasn't a major event this year I think we did fairly > well with entries, even though I'd have liked to have seen more. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > How many entries did you have in the show? The open show at the > catfish > > Convention the other week had 190 registered entries, but I do not > know > > what the final count was > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 10:14 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: North Jersey Aquatic Society Show and > Auction > > > > Hi Donna, Good to hear (directly) from you. The show and auction > > went well, as it always does; too bad you had to miss it. Lots of > > Rift Lake Cichlids in the auction, if you would have needed > > something. Lots of other bags of auction fish as well -- a large > > variety of stuff. Don't know how many bags in all, but there were > a > > good number of them, keeping us there until after 6PM last night. > > One thing I'd like to mention, as I know you have this fish, is > that > > there must have been nearly a million bags of Yellow Labs available > > at the auction. Either everyone is breeding them, or one person is > > really pumping them out. > > > > Would have replied here last night but I was too beat from a few > real > > long days, not to mention that I had show fish and auction fish to > > put away when I got home. The show could have been larger (I've > seen > > larger in the past), but all-in-all, there was a good > representation > > of fish in all classes. A highlight of the show (at least for me) > > was that the first president of the NJAS showed up and I got the > > chance to meet him and to have a short chat with him. The club was > > founded in April 1954 (not 1953 as everyone there insists on > > believing), so its 54 years old this year. > > > > It was an honor meeting the first president, Joseph (Joe) F. Epper, > > who is now 82 years old -- he had to be 28 when the club first > > started. In answer to one of my questions to him, he still has > fish > > (3 Angelfish). I guess keeping fish keeps you going, as he looked > > well; I had never met him before this but was glad I finally did > so. > > Undoubtedly, Hank will remember him, being an original member of > the > > club back then. You missed a good show, but I know if you could > have > > made it, you would have. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Ray, how was it? I was not able to attend. > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32044	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat

First thing first, Glass cats are sensitive fish that like to be kept in groups. So you will want to have more than two. Second, petsmart is mainly a pet supply store that just so happen to sell fish, they are not very good to there livetock outside of regular water changes pet care is not of a top priority to them. You have just ended up with a stressed fish that has been thrown into a poorly kept tank, and it prefers to have atleast 5 or more of his buddies in a tank with him. I would take him back and exchange him and probrably buy a couple more so they could feel more at ease. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bubuci@... wrote: > > Hey Gang, > > About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. > > Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! > > Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! > > I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! > > I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. > > If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. > > My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. > > Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32045	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Kribensis chiclids

Simple answer is yes, kribensis will fit in just fine. They are only aggressive to fish that like to stake out territories, and since the fish that you have are open water swimmers that prefer the top and middle areas of the tank they will be just fine. They may even serve as dither fish to bring the kribs out of hiding. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "friendtoallfish" <pearlysmith2000@...> wrote: > > I have a 55 gallon with 1 danio, 4 austrailian rainbowfish and 2 > bristlenose plecos. I am interested in some sort of chiclid that stays > small and is not over aggerssive. Would Kribnesis work? If not what > would? Thanks >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32046	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

BTW, Tania, that early (Feb. 4, 2008) post I mentioned on Estes is message # 25694 (not # 25699) -- I made a typo. Really not much there on the manufacturer as the thread involves something else, but at least it alerts the reader to colored substrate being made and the name of the manufacturer. If your LFS doesn't have what you need, try asking them if they'd order it for you. You can go up to the Clifford W. Estes Company by going to < www.estesco.com > where you should be able to find a catalog of their stuff. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bubuci@... wrote: > > Thanks Ray > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:17:35 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > As you did not find a single hit for a search on "Estes Sand," I'd > suggest your changing search engines as you are short-changing > yourself in obtaining info, and may be short-changing yourself in > getting info on other aquarium related topics as well. I just did a > search on this using Google, using these same two words, and came up > with 89,600 hits. Haven't had the chance to go through them all yet > (LOL). > > If the original poster of this thread had perused the archives, it > would have been found that my message # 25699, posted on February 4th > this year, referred to Clifford W. Estes Company as selling colored > substrate for aquariums. While I did not go into detail there, as > the thread did not warrant it, I'd have been glad to fill in any > further info on this supplier with further question. I'd venture to > say that probably all aquarium related topics and problems can be > found in the archives as there is nothing we haven't covered before -- > and there is nothing new under the sun. > > The decorative aggregate company of Clifford W. Estes, supplier for > aquarium, construction and craft outlets was founded in 1847, more > than 150 years ago. They started supplying the aquarium trade with > colored gravel some 40 or so years ago and have added colored sand > (both non-buffering natural and processed/artificially colored) more > recently. While I don't use it in contemporary settings, I have used > it as far back as 40 years ago in shows in the late 1960's in > educational "theme" tanks as a substrate to compliment the displayed > fish. As examples, I remember using black gravel sprinkled with red > gravel as a substrate for adult Oscars and light blue gravel to go > along with the subtle undertones in silver Veil Angels. As can be > seen, these substrates by Estes have been around for some time. The > various colored gravels come in different grades (sizes). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about > loaches and > > this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a > single hit on > > Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did > find some > > happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. > > > > You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth > enough for > > your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of bubuci@ > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in > colors and > > is nice. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that > has another > > brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have > more > > info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Thanks, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an > idea I had > > read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to > find a > > suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock > > collector and had their own already so you might check with a local > rock > > collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the > rocks. I just > > thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the > pillow > > case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand > between > > your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. > > Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow > case > > anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took > place) > > and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels > smooth > > enough. > > > > Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness > of the > > substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be > since in > > the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy > bottoms > > to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and > bacterial > > issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be > causing the > > problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few > dollars on a > > commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just > to help > > take some of the edges off. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Lenny! > > > > On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it > down in > > a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? > > > > I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. > Not the > > same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black > sand, maybe > > that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7- > 7.4 or so > > But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of > buffering > > sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may > just go for > > the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. > Colored pea > > pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color > or > > something unusual like that. > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't > affect the > > pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements > added into > > or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the > > CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. > > > > In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on > any of > > the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, > Black Cichlid > > Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft > bellied > > fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph > of my > > reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option > would be > > to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick > sealable > > pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes > dryer > > (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or > rent a > > tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would > work > > better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but > either one > > would still round the edges. > > > > I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some > pebbles) for > > a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. > > http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > and > this more > > general page about tank setups > > http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with > > Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this > River-like > > water movement system... > > http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > for > fish like > > the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. > > > > Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for > > burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco- > Complete Cichlid > > Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > and > > then on the FAQ page > > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_com > plete_ > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > mplete > >_> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > mplete > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > mplete > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > mplete > > > > > >_> > > sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like > and what > > pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily > be a bad > > thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher > pH) hard > > water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood > and run > > peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you > don't > > need/want it. > > > > This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) > has a > > section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when > dealing with > > loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of > sand that > > causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water > quality. > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > (scroll > > down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section > titled > > "Barbel > > Erosion") > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Lenny! > > > > I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I > have 2 > > tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a > heated > > tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm > in Miami > > so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. > Are there > > water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid > sand may > > not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on > the Carib > > sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for > FW. They > > have 2 types. > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting > all of > > the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? > You can get > > the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most > plants > > although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in > the sides > > of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still > providing a > > structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. > > > > This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. > > Something like Eco-complete > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > which > has a > > black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > if you > > are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. > > > > I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never > checked on > > them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a > black sand > > but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool > filtration > > systems. > > > > This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that > is what > > you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us > know... > > but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't > get torn > > up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the > black > > blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but > forgot to > > point it out in my message, oops, sorry. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bubuci@ <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: FW Sand Substates > > > > Hey Gang! > > > > I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have > Burrowers > > so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. > > > > I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need > to get? > > Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if > any? > > > > Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too > pricey > > or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common > and good > > for this too. > > > > Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi- planted, > some > > fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now > with sand > > as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini > clay pots > > and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a > good > > idea? > > > > How much per gallon of tank to get? > > > > Thanks in advance! :D > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > >_____ > > > > > > > > > > > >_____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 > > Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:33:51 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32047	From: pam andress	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: Dying Apple Snail

If he is hanging out of his shell, he may already be dead. Touch him and see if he goes back in. If not he is most likely dead. Mine die all the time, but I have probably got over 100, so no big deal. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: bubuci@...: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:28:26 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Dying Apple Snail So I fed all my fish the live Brine, course there were a few dead but the fish seemed to avoid them. Now one of my Apple Snails is totally hanging out of his shell. He's in a qt tank with clean water, no meds. What do you think happened? He ate some bad brine? Can I saVe him?Cheers,Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32048	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/28/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish that is also known as a parrot cichlid, _Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has been available for better than 12 hours. However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon tube, never to return. On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would like a couple of pacu?] Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your expense. Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32049	From: Carolyn Morse	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

My birthday is September 29 @--->---- --- On Tue, 10/28/08, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 5:14 PM > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. > Happy Birthday to everyone. > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel > from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have > two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to > change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural > as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what > it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would > show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on > the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks > clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: > GoldLenny@...: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 > -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was > the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my > mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much > about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear > thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with > it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with > any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month > and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of > bubuci@...: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 > 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday > then! When is/was it?You're right, maybe the black then. > Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes > lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also > technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on > thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I > don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value > in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a > Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's > good that you're taking your time in deciding. I > personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the > black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are > also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious > colors of gravel over the years and after a while, > especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more > natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the > substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe > tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something > that willdefinitely be something you want for long > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>(Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- > Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of > bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, > October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a > libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra > problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so > I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open > the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh > yeah, this can go on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via > BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI > thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. > it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! > LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: > Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and > will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty > red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts > called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in > colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood > tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS > that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will > report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's > one out there that won't require > grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct > 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've > never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just > an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum > threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. > The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had > their own already so you might check with a local > rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for > polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the > commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a > low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand > betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for > an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot > of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an > idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling > it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels > smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his > article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of > an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the > fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy > bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water > quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the > rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of > course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on > acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few > hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny > VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month > and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: > Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!On the black > sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down > ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it > expensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from > my blackberry. Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you > can't see properly. On the black sand, maybethat's > what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ > 7-7.4 or soBut I don't think I want to have to worry > about my ph because of bufferingsand so unless the one that > needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go forthe pool > filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored > peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be > red color orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via > BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38To: > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, > plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't > affect thepH. Some sand or other substrate products do have > added elements added intoor onto the sand to give them > buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand > and Aragonite have this added element.In your case, without > further research, none of the black sands on any ofthe pages > looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black > CichlidEco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are > suitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read > further down to the last paragraph of myreply for a > different perspective on this question. Another option would > beto buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a > thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a > large coin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for > many hours to round the edges... or rent atumbler and do it > at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would workbetter > than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but > either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice > article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora > clown loach tank.. but it was light colored > sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > > > andthismore general page about > tank > setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > > >Since you mentioned cool water > tank (unheated), were you going withDojo/Weather loaches or > Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-likewater > movement > system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > > > > forfishlike the hillstream > loach but also good for other loaches.Which black sand did > you see on the CaribSea site that was safe forburrowers/soft > bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco-Complete > CichlidSand but that one has the buffer coating added to the > sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > >>and then on the FAQ > pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > >_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > >> > >_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > >> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > >> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> > >> >> >_>sand.html where it mentions > having aragonite. What is your pH like and whatpH do the > fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be > a badthing since it says it will "...help to maintain > the basic (higher pH) hardwater that African Cichlids > need..." If you have enough driftwood and runpeat in > your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you > don'tneed/want it.This article from The Skeptical > Aquarist (a well respected site) has asection on Barbel > Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing > withloaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the > grain of sand thatcauses the problems as much as a bacterial > issue related to water > quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > > > >(scroll down several > paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the sectiontitled > "BarbelErosion")Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: > Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!I don't > have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I > have 2tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, > it will be a heatedtank. The other will be for loaches so > cool water, no heater, I'm in Miamiso it never gets too > cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are therewater > coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the > cichlid sand maynot be the right ph for my fish. There is > one black sand I saw on the Caribsea site that said safe for > burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. Theyhave 2 > types.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct > 2008 19:46:14To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesSince > you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on > putting all ofthe plants in the clay pots to keep from > having burrower issues? You can getthe clay pots at any > garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most > plantsalthough some might need more root room. You could > drill holes in the sidesof the clay pots to allow the roots > to spread out while still providing astructure for holding > the plants from becoming completely uprooted.This is of > course, if you are going with a planted tank > substrate.Something like > Eco-completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > > > >which has a black > version of their planted tank substrate or their CichlidSand > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > > > > >> >> if you are going to > just put the planted substrate in the clay pots.I'm sure > there are just plain black sands as well but I've never > checked onthem. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply > place would sell a black sandbut they do sell natural > colored sand at low cost for pool filtrationsystems.This > article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid > tanks.http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > 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><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > 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><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > > > You don'tmention > cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what > you aretalking about. If it's something like loaches, > etc., let us know... but themain thing they would need is a > smooth sand so they don't get torn up bysharper edged > sands. This article specifically mentions the black > blastingsand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter > fish.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to > articlesreferencedabove listed on the right side under > Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original > Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: > Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesPlease note, mine is a FW > tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot topoint it out > in my message, oops, sorry.Sent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > Bubuci@... > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: FW Sand SubstatesHey Gang!I am thinking about > getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowersso it > must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters.I > was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I > need to get?Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And > the pros/cons if any?Also, a choice in a natural color would > be ok if the Black were too priceyor to hard to maintain. I > read pool filter sand is the most common and goodfor this > too.Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is > semi-planted, somefake, some real. My burrowers may lift up > and knock out roots now with sandas they will really go nuts > burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay potsand should I > add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a > goodidea?How much per gallon of tank to get?Thanks in > advance! :DCheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile_____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > > : Outbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): > 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:39:10 AMavast! - > copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of > this message have been > removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus > <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus > Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 > 11:25:55 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL > Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, > 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:39:15 AMavast! - > copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32050	From: Peaches	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want to check out www.parotcichlid.com Lots of good stuff there to read up on. Hope this Helps Some, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish that is also known as a parrot cichlid, _Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has been available for better than 12 hours. However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon tube, never to return. On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would like a couple of pacu?] Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your expense. Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32051	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Glass Catfish won't eat

I will do it tomorrow, thanks! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 03:12:48 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Glass Catfish won't eat First thing first, Glass cats are sensitive fish that like to be kept in groups. So you will want to have more than two. Second, petsmart is mainly a pet supply store that just so happen to sell fish, they are not very good to there livetock outside of regular water changes pet care is not of a top priority to them. You have just ended up with a stressed fish that has been thrown into a poorly kept tank, and it prefers to have atleast 5 or more of his buddies in a tank with him. I would take him back and exchange him and probrably buy a couple more so they could feel more at ease. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bubuci@... wrote: > > Hey Gang, > > About a week or more ago I got a pair of nifty Glass Catfishes from Pets-not so-smart, lol! I have to say shopping there is good as they are really good about returns, even when it falls outside of their policy or given time periods. > > Anyhow, I've had this pair maybe about 10 days or so and they've refused to eat anything so I'm worried! I've fed all sorts of dried foods with no luck! > > Well yesterday that I went to the LFS I got some live Brine shrimp + finally, one chowed down! The other refused any food still. What a high maintenance fish so far! > > I'm thinking of just returning the one who's fasting before he dies of starvation. I don't know what else to do. Ideas? He's been acting pretty normal otherwise, just hovering and doing what they do, which is not much. They don't swim around at all, barely! > > I also got a variety pack of frozen live food for later. > > If I can't get the one who ate to go on regular food, ill prob. Return him too as I don't have a set up for feeding live food regularly yet. Although I should. > > My African Dwarf Frog is high maintenance too! He's stupid! He won't eat unless I fish him out and feed him separately on a regular basis. He's not too crazy about his pellets either, he's gotten sooooo skinny. > > Ok, ok, ill get a live brine shrimp breeder/dispenser thingy! What about Ghandi the Glass Catfish though? > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32052	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Ray, Good tip, thanks a lot! :D Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 03:28:19 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates BTW, Tania, that early (Feb. 4, 2008) post I mentioned on Estes is message # 25694 (not # 25699) -- I made a typo. Really not much there on the manufacturer as the thread involves something else, but at least it alerts the reader to colored substrate being made and the name of the manufacturer. If your LFS doesn't have what you need, try asking them if they'd order it for you. You can go up to the Clifford W. Estes Company by going to < www.estesco.com > where you should be able to find a catalog of their stuff. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bubuci@... wrote: > > Thanks Ray > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:17:35 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > As you did not find a single hit for a search on "Estes Sand," I'd > suggest your changing search engines as you are short-changing > yourself in obtaining info, and may be short-changing yourself in > getting info on other aquarium related topics as well. I just did a > search on this using Google, using these same two words, and came up > with 89,600 hits. Haven't had the chance to go through them all yet > (LOL). > > If the original poster of this thread had perused the archives, it > would have been found that my message # 25699, posted on February 4th > this year, referred to Clifford W. Estes Company as selling colored > substrate for aquariums. While I did not go into detail there, as > the thread did not warrant it, I'd have been glad to fill in any > further info on this supplier with further question. I'd venture to > say that probably all aquarium related topics and problems can be > found in the archives as there is nothing we haven't covered before -- > and there is nothing new under the sun. > > The decorative aggregate company of Clifford W. Estes, supplier for > aquarium, construction and craft outlets was founded in 1847, more > than 150 years ago. They started supplying the aquarium trade with > colored gravel some 40 or so years ago and have added colored sand > (both non-buffering natural and processed/artificially colored) more > recently. While I don't use it in contemporary settings, I have used > it as far back as 40 years ago in shows in the late 1960's in > educational "theme" tanks as a substrate to compliment the displayed > fish. As examples, I remember using black gravel sprinkled with red > gravel as a substrate for adult Oscars and light blue gravel to go > along with the subtle undertones in silver Veil Angels. As can be > seen, these substrates by Estes have been around for some time. The > various colored gravels come in different grades (sizes). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I looked at few forum threads but couldn't find anything about > loaches and > > this product. I did a search on Loaches.com and didn't find a > single hit on > > Estes Sand. I'm not sure if it's a newer product or what. I did > find some > > happy users but they were related to cichlids and other fish. > > > > You would have to give it the feel test to see if it's smooth > enough for > > your liking compared to other sands that you've felt. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of bubuci@ > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Its called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in > colors and > > is nice. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Good tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that > has another > > brand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have > more > > info. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding. > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Thanks, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > I've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an > idea I had > > read while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to > find a > > suitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rock > > collector and had their own already so you might check with a local > rock > > collector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the > rocks. I just > > thought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the > pillow > > case option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand > between > > your fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two. > > Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow > case > > anyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took > place) > > and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels > smooth > > enough. > > > > Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness > of the > > substrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be > since in > > the wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy > bottoms > > to rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and > bacterial > > issues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be > causing the > > problems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few > dollars on a > > commercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just > to help > > take some of the edges off. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Lenny! > > > > On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it > down in > > a pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive? > > > > I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. > Not the > > same as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black > sand, maybe > > that's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7- > 7.4 or so > > But I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of > buffering > > sand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may > just go for > > the pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. > Colored pea > > pebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color > or > > something unusual like that. > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Usually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't > affect the > > pH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements > added into > > or onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that the > > CaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element. > > > > In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on > any of > > the pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, > Black Cichlid > > Eco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft > bellied > > fish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph > of my > > reply for a different perspective on this question. Another option > would be > > to buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick > sealable > > pillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes > dryer > > (cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or > rent a > > tumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would > work > > better than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but > either one > > would still round the edges. > > > > I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some > pebbles) for > > a clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand. > > http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > and > this more > > general page about tank setups > > http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > > Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going with > > Dojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this > River-like > > water movement system... > > http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/ > > <http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > for > fish like > > the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches. > > > > Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe for > > burrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco- > Complete Cichlid > > Sand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand. > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html> > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > and > > then on the FAQ page > > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_com > plete_ > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > mplete > >_> > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > mplete > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > mplete > > > <http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_co > mplete > > > > > >_> > > sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like > and what > > pH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily > be a bad > > thing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher > pH) hard > > water that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood > and run > > peat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you > don't > > need/want it. > > > > This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) > has a > > section on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when > dealing with > > loaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of > sand that > > causes the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water > quality. > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > (scroll > > down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the section > titled > > "Barbel > > Erosion") > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Lenny! > > > > I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I > have 2 > > tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a > heated > > tank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm > in Miami > > so it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. > Are there > > water coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid > sand may > > not be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on > the Carib > > sea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for > FW. They > > have 2 types. > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Since you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting > all of > > the plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? > You can get > > the clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most > plants > > although some might need more root room. You could drill holes in > the sides > > of the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still > providing a > > structure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted. > > > > This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate. > > Something like Eco-complete > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html > which > has a > > black version of their planted tank substrate or their Cichlid Sand > > http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco-complete.html > > if you > > are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots. > > > > I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never > checked on > > them. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a > black sand > > but they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool > filtration > > systems. > > > > This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > You don't mention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that > is what > > you are talking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us > know... > > but the main thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't > get torn > > up by sharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the > black > > blasting sand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Please note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but > forgot to > > point it out in my message, oops, sorry. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bubuci@ <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > > > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: FW Sand Substates > > > > Hey Gang! > > > > I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have > Burrowers > > so it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters. > > > > I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need > to get? > > Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if > any? > > > > Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too > pricey > > or to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common > and good > > for this too. > > > > Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi- planted, > some > > fake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now > with sand > > as they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini > clay pots > > and should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a > good > > idea? > > > > How much per gallon of tank to get? > > > > Thanks in advance! :D > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > >_____ > > > > > > > > > > > >_____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081027-0, 10/27/2008 > > Tested on: 10/27/2008 4:33:51 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32053	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

Make that 4 mine was on the 19th. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Huey Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... Me, too! My birthday's on the second. I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. Thanks, Jackie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday to everyone. > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely be something you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message---- -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile---- -Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!On the black sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it expensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from my blackberry. Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you can't see properly. On the black sand, maybethat's what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ 7-7.4 or soBut I don't think I want to have to worry about my ph because of bufferingsand so unless the one that needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go forthe pool filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be red color orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't affect thepH. Some sand or other substrate products do have added elements added intoor onto the sand to give them buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand and Aragonite have this added element.In your case, without further research, none of the black sands on any ofthe pages looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black CichlidEco- Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are suitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read further down to the last paragraph of myreply for a different perspective on this question. Another option would beto buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a large coin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for many hours to round the edges... or rent atumbler and do it at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would workbetter than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora clown loach tank.. but it was light colored sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach- aquarium/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> > > > > > > andthismore general page about tank setupshttp://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> ><http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach- almanac/<http://www.loaches.com/care/the-loach-almanac/> > > > > > >Since you mentioned cool water tank (unheated), were you going withDojo/Weather loaches or Hillstream loaches or ??? Check out this River-likewater movement system...http://www.loaches.com/articles/a- river-runs-through-it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs- through-it/><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> ><http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through- it/<http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it/> > > > > > > forfishlike the hillstream loach but also good for other loaches.Which black sand did you see on the CaribSea site that was safe forburrowers/soft bellied fish? The only one I saw was the Eco- Complete CichlidSand but that one has the buffer coating added to the sand.http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > > >>and then on the FAQ pagehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco _complete_<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq _af_eco_complete_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid /faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/c ichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_wi ndow/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_complete> >_><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco _complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_ af_eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/fa q/faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c 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omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af_eco_c omplete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/faq_af _eco_complete<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/cichlid/faq/ faq_af_eco_complete> >> >> >_>sand.html where it mentions having aragonite. What is your pH like and whatpH do the fish prefer. This buffering capacity may not necessarily be a badthing since it says it will "...help to maintain the basic (higher pH) hardwater that African Cichlids need..." If you have enough driftwood and runpeat in your filter, you could negate the buffering effect if you don'tneed/want it.This article from The Skeptical Aquarist (a well respected site) has asection on Barbel Erosion in Corys that may be applicable when dealing withloaches so it might not be the sharpness or size of the grain of sand thatcauses the problems as much as a bacterial issue related to water quality.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml< http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml><http:// www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skep ticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.skepticalaqu arist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> ><http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http:/ /www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml<http://www.ske pticalaquarist.com/docs/fishes/catfishes2.shtml> > > > > > >(scroll down several paragraphs.. about an inch down... to the sectiontitled "BarbelErosion")Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:56 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!I don't have Cichlids right now, but may get a German Ram or 2. I have 2tanks, one I will have Boesemani+ Millenium Rainbows, it will be a heatedtank. The other will be for loaches so cool water, no heater, I'm in Miamiso it never gets too cool, about 72 F is the coolest it may get. Are therewater coolers avail as there are heaters? I'm afraid the cichlid sand maynot be the right ph for my fish. There is one black sand I saw on the Caribsea site that said safe for burrowers, but not sure if its good for FW. Theyhave 2 types.Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:14To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesSince you are planning a planted tank, were you planning on putting all ofthe plants in the clay pots to keep from having burrower issues? You can getthe clay pots at any garden center. The 2" or 3" work fine for most plantsalthough some might need more root room. You could drill holes in the sidesof the clay pots to allow the roots to spread out while still providing astructure for holding the plants from becoming completely uprooted.This is of course, if you are going with a planted tank substrate.Something like Eco- completehttp://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http ://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html><http://www.cari bsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pag es/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/ planted_aquar.html> > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www 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><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www .caribsea.com/pages/products/planted_aquar.html<http://www.caribsea.co m/pages/products/planted_aquar.html> > > > > > > > >which has a black version of their planted tank substrate or their CichlidSand http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- 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complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> ><http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html<http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/cichlid_eco- complete.html> > > > > >> >> if you are going to just put the planted substrate in the clay pots.I'm sure there are just plain black sands as well but I've never checked onthem. I'm not sure if a swimming pool supply place would sell a black sandbut they do sell natural colored sand at low cost for pool filtrationsystems.This article has more info on common sands used in Cichlid tanks.http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- 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forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> ><http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php<http://www.cichlid- forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > > > > > > You don'tmention cichlids but for some reason, I'm thinking that is what you aretalking about. If it's something like loaches, etc., let us know... but themain thing they would need is a smooth sand so they don't get torn up bysharper edged sands. This article specifically mentions the black blastingsand as NOT being good for burrowers or sifter fish.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articlesreferencedabove listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message---- -From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:02 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesPlease note, mine is a FW tank. I wrote it in the subject, but forgot topoint it out in my message, oops, sorry.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message---- -From: Bubuci@... <mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:Bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:57:52To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: FW Sand SubstatesHey Gang!I am thinking about getting a sand substrate for my tank. I have Burrowersso it must be burrower friendly, not change my water parameters.I was thinking about a black bottom tank. Anyone know what I need to get?Name of the sand, is it Black Blasting Sand? And the pros/cons if any?Also, a choice in a natural color would be ok if the Black were too priceyor to hard to maintain. I read pool filter sand is the most common and goodfor this too.Oh yeah, let me not forget to mention that my tank is semi-planted, somefake, some real. My burrowers may lift up and knock out roots now with sandas they will really go nuts burrowing. Where can I get those mini clay potsand should I add any special aquatic plant soil to them? Is that a goodidea?How much per gallon of tank to get?Thanks in advance! :DCheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile_____avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 9:39:10 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:25:55 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081027-1, 10/27/2008Tested on: 10/28/2008 11:39:15 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32054	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Libra's of the world... UNITE and conquer!!!! If we can get them scales flailing, we might be a formidable weapon of mass destruction... at least in our living rooms or like the bull in the a china shop. Do they shill have china shops? LOL ;-) FISH. (Gotta keep it on topic! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Morse Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates My birthday is September 29 @--->---- --- On Tue, 10/28/08, pam andress <pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 5:14 PM > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. > Happy Birthday to everyone. > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel > from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have > two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to > change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural > as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what > it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would > show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on > the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks > clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 > -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was > the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my > mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much > about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear > thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with > it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with > any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month > and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> : Tuesday, October 28, 2008 > 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday > then! When is/was it?You're right, maybe the black then. > Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes > lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also > technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on > thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I > don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value > in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a > Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's > good that you're taking your time in deciding. I > personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the > black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are > also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious > colors of gravel over the years and after a while, > especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more > natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the > substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe > tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something > that willdefinitely be something you want for long > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >(Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- > Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, > October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a > libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra > problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so > I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open > the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh > yeah, this can go on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via > BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI > thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. > it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! > LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent : > Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and > will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty > red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts > called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in > colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood > tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS > that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will > report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's > one out there that won't require > grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct > 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've > never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just > an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum > threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. > The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had > their own already so you might check with a local > rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for > polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the > commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a > low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand > betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for > an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot > of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an > idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling > it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels > smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his > article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of > an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the > fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy > bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water > quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the > rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of > course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on > acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few > hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny > VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month > and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: > Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!On the black > sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down > ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it > expensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from > my blackberry. Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you > can't see properly. On the black sand, maybethat's > what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ > 7-7.4 or soBut I don't think I want to have to worry > about my ph because of bufferingsand so unless the one that > needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go forthe pool > filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored > peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be > red color orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via > BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38To: > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, > plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't > affect thepH. Some sand or other substrate products do have > added elements added intoor onto the sand to give them > buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand > and Aragonite have this added element.In your case, without > further research, none of the black sands on any ofthe pages > looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black > CichlidEco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are > suitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read > further down to the last paragraph of myreply for a > different perspective on this question. Another option would > beto buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a > thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a > large coin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for > many hours to round the edges... or rent atumbler and do it > at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would workbetter > than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but > either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice > article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora > clown loach tank.. but it was light colored > sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:37:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32055	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

It should be http://www.parrottchichlid.com (with two r's). Luckily, the one "r" link didn't open up a porn page. Did I just say luckily? I meant DARN! LOL Here's a Cichlid-Forum.com thread on Blood Parrots. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=180886 <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=180886&sid=f30a5001abfc9 9dc78158f6b35640d97> &sid=f30a5001abfc99dc78158f6b35640d97 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want to check out www.parotcichlid.com Lots of good stuff there to read up on. Hope this Helps Some, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish that is also known as a parrot cichlid, _Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has been available for better than 12 hours. However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon tube, never to return. On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would like a couple of pacu?] Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your expense. Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:46:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32056	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

Peaches, My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch them chase each other, but no aggression. Hope this helps :) Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@...> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want to check out www.parotcichlid.com Lots of good stuff there to read up on. Hope this Helps Some, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has been available for better than 12 hours. However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon tube, never to return. On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would like a couple of pacu?] Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your expense. Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32057	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Mike Huey Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... Me, too! My birthday's on the second. I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. Thanks, Jackie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday to everyone. > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely be something you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message---- -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile---- -Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:49:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

No, GloFish are not mongrels, just genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. Genetically, they are still 100% Zebra Danio's... but several generations ago (ZD generations, not ours), some mad scientist types.. lol.. injected some ZD eggs with various glowing DNA from Jellyfish, other marine fish, etc., to cause the babies to be born with the day-glo coloring. They are not hybridized fish like the Parrot Cichlids. Same with Fancy Goldfish, long-finned variants of other fish, etc., and their morphed body types and features... it was all done with inbreeding of mutant fish from their species to other mutant fish from their species so genetically, they're still 100% genetically pure... at least I think so. I guess it would be comparable to a mad scientist type taking a human embryo and altering it's genetics so that it would be born and have bright purple or green hair. It's still human... it will just have to spend more on Clairol products or learn how to fight and/or defend itself in school. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate Peaches, My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch them chase each other, but no aggression. Hope this helps :) Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@... <mailto:Iluvdoves%40gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want to check out www.parotcichlid.com Lots of good stuff there to read up on. Hope this Helps Some, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has been available for better than 12 hours. However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon tube, never to return. On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would like a couple of pacu?] Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your expense. Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:50:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 3:00:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32059	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Mike Huey Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... Me, too! My birthday's on the second. I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. Thanks, Jackie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday to everyone. > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely be something you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message---- -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile---- -Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:49:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32060	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Mike Huey Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... Me, too! My birthday's on the second. I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. Thanks, Jackie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy Birthday to everyone. > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci@...: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@...: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something that willdefinitely be something you want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message---- -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message----- From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile---- -Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:49:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 3:11:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 3:19:24 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32061	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Upgrading lights

Careful Lenny, Not all the girls are girls out here. On the other hand we have some great aquarium societies, the new Steinhart Aquarium and Monterey Bay aquarium. -Mike dismiss koo koo girls, there might not be any girls left... and I'm not bad-off enough yet to move to San Francisco. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 4:35 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Four sisters??? So five of you altogether? Darn.. why can't I have a family like that living next door to me! ;-) There must be something good in the water down there... at least for the guys. And don't count out the koo koo ones... heck, I thought all of you were... LOL ... at least all the girls I've dated seem to have been. If I was to dismiss koo koo girls, there might not be any girls left... and I'm not bad-off enough yet to move to San Francisco. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Lol! Omg what rock have I been living under? How embarrassing! Thanks so much for that info again! Ok I'm gonna have to go check one out. I actually hardly shop except for necessities. Times are tough right now as we all know and I do have 4 sisters! All single, but forget about two of them, they're koo koo, the others: one has a bf and one is single so hmmmmm. ;-) Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:51:51 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Dang... you better notify WalMart.. they may not know. LOL I have five of them within 5 miles of me (and three within 2 miles with another one being built right now), if you count the SuperCenters, regular WalMarts, WalMart Market (groceries) and Sam's Clubs. I just did a Google search on - Wal-Mart 33129 - and it came up with six stores in that zip code... and a Google map with the pins showing their location and two or three of them look like they're SuperCenters. http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8> <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 <http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129> &oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 > > &oe=UTF-8&q=Wal%2DMart%2033129 http://www.WalMart.com <http://www.WalMart.com> using their Find A Store and your zip code found this list of nearby stores... dang, they're everywhere around you. http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=AL <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A L> L <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A <http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=A > > LL&sfatt=ALL&rx_title=&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfsearch_zip=33129> &sfatt=ALL&rx_title=&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfsearch_zip=33129 We found 20 stores near 33129 : (The above link will give the actual stores addresses, phone numbers, etc.) 1. Miami, FL 33126 2. Hialeah Gardens, FL 33016 3. North Miami Beach, FL 33162 4. Miami Gardens, FL 33169 5. Hialeah, FL 33015 6. Miami Gardens (Prop, FL 33056 7. Kendall, FL 33186 8. Miramar, FL 33025 9. Hallandale, FL 33009 10. Pembroke Pines, FL 33029 11. Cooper City, FL 33330 12. Florida City, FL 33034 13. Plantation, FL 33322 14. Sunrise, FL 33323 15. Lauderdale Lakes, FL 33313 16. Sunrise, FL 33351 17. North Lauderdale, FL 33068 18. Pompano Beach, FL 33069 Now Open 19. Pompano Beach, FL 33069 20. Coral Springs, FL 33071 There also seems to be one in 33130 that isn't on the above list: The Google maps feature says it's within 2,500 feet (1/2 mile) of 33139 zip code. WAL Mart Supercenter 1108 SW 10th St Miami, FL 33130 (305) 470-4505‎ It looks like it's on the corner of SW 12th Ave and SW 8th Street (aka Calle Ocho) BTW... do you have a sister that would like to relocate and get married? Any woman that doesn't know about every nearby place to shop might have a place in my heart... and wallet.... unless ya'll only shop at the expensive malls or upscale department stores.. then you can keep her down there. LOL ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Carolyn + Lenny, Thanks so much for your replies. The problem is there's no Walmart near where I live since I last checked. I'm in 33129, ill check again. Thanks, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Morse <mocode1@... <mailto:mocode1%40yahoo.com> <mailto:mocode1%40yahoo.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:59:18 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights Tania, Hello, my name is Carolyn~new to this scene. I have always bought my lighting at a pet store but since my move I went down in aquarium size as well as not having a good pet store near by. WalMart is it and I actually just bought a small irredesant bulb there, I didn't like the one that came with the tank. Have a great day, Carolyn --- On Tue, 10/28/08, bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > wrote: > From: bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Upgrading lights > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 9:17 AM Hey Gang! > > I need to upgrade my bulbs. I got my tank at Petsupermarket but they > don't have the lights I need. I have some plants so I think ill need > about 150 w in a 55 g right? Its a marineland tank, takes Eclipse > natural daylight 18". > Where can I look for these? > > Thanks, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/28/2008 6:35:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((÷>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((÷> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((÷> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <÷((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<÷((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<÷((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32062	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Happy Bday to all the Libras! Yey! Awesome people! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:37:28 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Libra's of the world... UNITE and conquer!!!! If we can get them scales flailing, we might be a formidable weapon of mass destruction... at least in our living rooms or like the bull in the a china shop. Do they shill have china shops? LOL ;-) FISH. (Gotta keep it on topic! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Morse Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates My birthday is September 29 @--->---- --- On Tue, 10/28/08, pam andress <pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 5:14 PM > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. > Happy Birthday to everyone. > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel > from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have > two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to > change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural > as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what > it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would > show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on > the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks > clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 > -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was > the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my > mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much > about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear > thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with > it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with > any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month > and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> : Tuesday, October 28, 2008 > 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday > then! When is/was it?You're right, maybe the black then. > Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes > lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also > technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on > thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I > don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value > in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a > Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's > good that you're taking your time in deciding. I > personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the > black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are > also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious > colors of gravel over the years and after a while, > especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more > natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the > substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe > tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something > that willdefinitely be something you want for long > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >(Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- > Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, > October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a > libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra > problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so > I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open > the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh > yeah, this can go on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via > BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI > thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. > it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! > LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent : > Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and > will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty > red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts > called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in > colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood > tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS > that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will > report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's > one out there that won't require > grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct > 2008 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've > never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just > an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum > threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. > The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had > their own already so you might check with a local > rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for > polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the > commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a > low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand > betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for > an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot > of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an > idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling > it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels > smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his > article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of > an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the > fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy > bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water > quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the > rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of > course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on > acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few > hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny > VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month > and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: > Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!On the black > sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down > ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it > expensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from > my blackberry. Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you > can't see properly. On the black sand, maybethat's > what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ > 7-7.4 or soBut I don't think I want to have to worry > about my ph because of bufferingsand so unless the one that > needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go forthe pool > filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored > peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be > red color orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via > BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38To: > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, > plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't > affect thepH. Some sand or other substrate products do have > added elements added intoor onto the sand to give them > buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand > and Aragonite have this added element.In your case, without > further research, none of the black sands on any ofthe pages > looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black > CichlidEco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are > suitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read > further down to the last paragraph of myreply for a > different perspective on this question. Another option would > beto buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a > thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a > large coin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for > many hours to round the edges... or rent atumbler and do it > at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would workbetter > than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but > either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice > article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora > clown loach tank.. but it was light colored > sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ <sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:37:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32063	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

Glofish have been genetically modified zebra danios. There is actually a purpose to doing this in that the scientists wanted to develop a method to determine the pollution of a body of water by certain compounds before the pollution was measurable by normal means. I do not know how well the zebras fulfilled this purpose, but the have reached a certain level of popularity with aquarium keepers. You actually need to be licensed to breed and distribute the fish. The site, www.glofish.com has more information about this. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peaches Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want to check out www.parotcichlid.com Lots of good stuff there to read up on. Hope this Helps Some, Peaches ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish that is also known as a parrot cichlid, _Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has been available for better than 12 hours. However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon tube, never to return. On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would like a couple of pacu?] Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your expense. Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32064	From: hank voss	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >(Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for > > black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her > > mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf > > Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a > > test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel > > Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message----- > > From: bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, > > 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says > > safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via > > BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@ > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, > > 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the > > research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that > > comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe > > there's one out there that won't require > > grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-- -- > > -Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you > > would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking > > at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black > > sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had > > their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop > > or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought > > about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the > > pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the > > sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an > > hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on > > the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much > > grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at > > a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist > > discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as > > much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish > > live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky > > bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and > > bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be > > causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a > > few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a > > few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish > > Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > > Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:49:12 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 3:11:15 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 3:19:24 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32065	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?

I have both and keep the water at a little higher than room temperature (from the lighting). I had thought they had died or were eaten (or both) until I removed my UGF and there there were happily hiding underneath. Now they only come out whenthe weather is bad . Apparently they are a bit sensitive to pressure changes which is what earned them the nickname "Weather Loach". They are totally peacefiul.mostly hiding if they can. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Jennifer! Thanks for your reply! :D what temp do you keep your Dojos in? What size tank? How big are they? I actually do have 2 Kuhlis, one is a Java though, but they hang out together but don't do much else, they hide a lot. I really like the aspect of the weather loach reacting to weather changes. Fun! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Walker <Risika23@yahoo. <mailto:Risika23%40yahoo.com> com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:47:31 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? I have both gold and regular dojos in one tank. The plain dojos seem to be more active and slightly bigger. I would not keep just one though. They really love to be in groups. Mine play and swim around with eachother. If your tank is a little warmer you might try Black Kuhli Loaches. They are much smaller, around 2in, so you could possibly keep a group. I do not have snails so I dont know about that one but I would bet that Kuhlis would be too small to eat your snails. Both kuhlis and Dojo are very peace full. I keep them with Danios in one tank and Corys in another and have never had a problem. Jennifer --- On Sat, 10/25/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 10:17 AM I've never kept them, but like all fish, the best bet is to try and provide them with their preferred environment. .. including tank size, shoaling mates, etc., but I'm sure people have been successful with them outside of their preferred parameters. They are cool water fish, not tropical fish, and your snails/shrimp may become snacks. http://www.loaches. com/species- index/weather- loach-misgurnis- anguillicaudatu s http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_dojo.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> ry.net Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Hey Gang, Does anyone have experience with Weather or Dojo Loaches? I'm considering getting one, I know you are supposed to have a group, but my tank can't handle it. I can do 1, but 3 will be overcrowded I think. How many gallons per Dojo and will they do ok with regular gravel? What do they like to eat? What color do most of you prefer, Gold or Original? Will they bother my Mystery Snails or Ghost Shrimp? Will they get on with a Blue Ram? Thanks in advance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:17:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32066	From: friendtoallfish	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Kribensis chiclids

Thank you for the reply. Since they are aggressive to fish over territories having 2 female and 2 males in the 55 with the other fish would that work? Or better to have 1 male and a few females or just one of each. Thanks --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > Simple answer is yes, kribensis will fit in just fine. They are only > aggressive to fish that like to stake out territories, and since the > fish that you have are open water swimmers that prefer the top and > middle areas of the tank they will be just fine. They may even serve as > dither fish to bring the kribs out of hiding. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "friendtoallfish" > <pearlysmith2000@> wrote: > > > > I have a 55 gallon with 1 danio, 4 austrailian rainbowfish and 2 > > bristlenose plecos. I am interested in some sort of chiclid that > stays > > small and is not over aggerssive. Would Kribnesis work? If not what > > would? Thanks > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32067	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

As I see it, Glofish are mongrels in the sense that they are the product of two different species. While they are not a hybridized fish, resulting from the breeding of two different species (the Zebra Danio was not bred with the Jellyfish), with the addition of Jellyfish DNA they are no longer 100% Zebra Danio -- as is obvious by their appearance (they will forever be part Jellyfish, as long as man procreates them). If you wish to continue the fish known as Brachydanio zebra as it appears in its naturally evolved form as a species, you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra Danio; you will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not Zebra DNA) with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. Neither, are these mutant fish, as mutated fish are the result of the mutation (change) of given species' genes -- not the addition of another species' DNA by man -- it is a result of INHERITED characteristics from that particular species' two parents (of the same species). Fancy Goldfish, other long-finned variants of other species and differing body types, coloration, etc., of some species are the result of inbreeding these species to "fix" these mutations (the individual species' gene changes) to develop a "strain" from these sports. But these fish are not injected with DNA from an entirely different species, as has been done by man with Glofish. These mutant fish which are developed by taking advantage of a species changed/mutated genes (not being injected with another's DNA) and being inbred by man are still 100% the same species. This process is an ongoing one in the wild, called evolution, when mutations appear in a species' gene pool which are better suited to survive and take better advantage of its environment than does its present gene complement. It is the process whereby we got here through the eons -- and we were not injected with another species' DNA, but by mutating. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > No, GloFish are not mongrels, just genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. > Genetically, they are still 100% Zebra Danio's... but several generations > ago (ZD generations, not ours), some mad scientist types.. lol.. injected > some ZD eggs with various glowing DNA from Jellyfish, other marine fish, > etc., to cause the babies to be born with the day-glo coloring. They are > not hybridized fish like the Parrot Cichlids. Same with Fancy Goldfish, > long-finned variants of other fish, etc., and their morphed body types and > features... it was all done with inbreeding of mutant fish from their > species to other mutant fish from their species so genetically, they're > still 100% genetically pure... at least I think so. > > I guess it would be comparable to a mad scientist type taking a human embryo > and altering it's genetics so that it would be born and have bright purple > or green hair. It's still human... it will just have to spend more on > Clairol products or learn how to fight and/or defend itself in school. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bubuci@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > Peaches, > My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch them chase > each other, but no aggression. > > Hope this helps :) > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@... <mailto:Iluvdoves%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > Hope this Helps Some, > Peaches > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish > that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has > been available for better than 12 hours. > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon > tube, never to return. > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would > like a couple of pacu?] > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your > expense. > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:50:45 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 3:00:55 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32068	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

Yes, the link has two "r's," but it will work even better with only one "t" and the removal of the extraneous "h," as < www.parrotcichlid.com >. <g>. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It should be http://www.parrottchichlid.com (with two r's). Luckily, the > one "r" link didn't open up a porn page. Did I just say luckily? I meant > DARN! LOL > > Here's a Cichlid-Forum.com thread on Blood Parrots. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=180886 > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php? t=180886&sid=f30a5001abfc9 > 9dc78158f6b35640d97> &sid=f30a5001abfc99dc78158f6b35640d97 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Peaches > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > Hope this Helps Some, > Peaches > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish > that is also known as a parrot cichlid, _Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has > been available for better than 12 hours. > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon > tube, never to return. > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would > like a couple of pacu?] > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your > expense. > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:46:38 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32069	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

Yes, but they're in China. Fish, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:37:28 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Libra's of the world... UNITE and conquer!!!! If we can get them scales flailing, we might be a formidable weapon of mass destruction... at least in our living rooms or like the bull in the a china shop. Do they shill have china shops? LOL ;-) FISH. (Gotta keep it on topic! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Carolyn Morse Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates My birthday is September 29 @--->---- --- On Tue, 10/28/08, pam andress < pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > wrote: > From: pam andress < pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 5:14 PM > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. > Happy Birthday to everyone. > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel > from blue to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have > two other tanks that have blue in them and would love to > change them, but not for a while. Try to keep it as natural > as possible and then it looks better. Also think about what > it looks like with poop on it. White I would think would > show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on > the black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks > clean, but I sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 > -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was > the 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my > mom said I had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much > about the "woman's prerogative" thing. I hear > thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys learn to put up with > it... I justhaven't been able to make it that long with > any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month > and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> : Tuesday, October 28, 2008 > 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday > then! When is/was it?You're right, maybe the black then. > Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes > lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny" > < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: > < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also > technically a Libra but my mom says that since I was born on > thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that means. I > don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value > in it for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a > Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's > good that you're taking your time in deciding. I > personally would gowith a natural substrate but either the > black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are > also somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious > colors of gravel over the years and after a while, > especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more > natural looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the > substrate is a chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe > tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with something > that willdefinitely be something you want for long > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > >(Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- > Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, > October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a > libra! What can I say, that's a typical Libra > problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so > I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open > the bag yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh > yeah, this can go on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via > BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: > < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI > thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. > it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! > LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > >< http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent : > Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and > will do a test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty > red like my gravel Tania Sent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts > called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in > colors andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood > tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS > that has anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will > report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's > one out there that won't require > grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny" > < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct > 2008 09:59:45To: < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've > never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just > an idea I hadread while looking at some other fish forum > threads while trying to find asuitable black sand for you. > The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had > their own already so you might check with a local > rockcollector shop or hobby shop. They use them for > polishing the rocks. I justthought about using one of the > commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a > low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand > betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for > an hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot > of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an > idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep tumbling > it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels > smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his > article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of > an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the > fish live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy > bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might be more of a water > quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the > rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of > course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on > acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few > hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny > VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > >< http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > >< http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > >< http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > abovelisted on the right side under Archives- Year, Month > and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Ofbubuci@... <mailto:Ofbubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: > Monday, October 27, 2008 3:22 AMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!On the black > sand, I wonder how many hrs it would take to smooth it down > ina pillow case. Where do I get/rent a tumbler? Is it > expensive?I look at most of my email and links you send from > my blackberry. Not thesame as a pc so some stuff you > can't see properly. On the black sand, maybethat's > what I missed, the buffering capacity. My tanks range @ > 7-7.4 or soBut I don't think I want to have to worry > about my ph because of bufferingsand so unless the one that > needs smoothing is inate? Then I may just go forthe pool > filter stuff unless I can find a nicely dark/pretty. Colored > peapebble/gravel. I have a pretty red gravel now. It can be > red color orsomething unusual like that.Cheers,TaniaSent via > BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:51:38To: > < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesUsually, > plain old sand is going to be inert... that is, it won't > affect thepH. Some sand or other substrate products do have > added elements added intoor onto the sand to give them > buffering capacity. I noticed that theCaribSea Coral Sand > and Aragonite have this added element.In your case, without > further research, none of the black sands on any ofthe pages > looked at so far (Tahitian Moon, Black Eco-Complete, Black > CichlidEco-Complete, Seachem Flourite Black, etc.) are > suitable for soft belliedfish or burrowers.... but read > further down to the last paragraph of myreply for a > different perspective on this question. Another option would > beto buy one of the black sand products and then put it in a > thick sealablepillowcase or other item and then put it in a > large coin-op clothes dryer(cool temp) and tumble it for > many hours to round the edges... or rent atumbler and do it > at your home. Have it loose in the tumbler would workbetter > than having it in a pillowcase in the coin-op dryer but > either onewould still round the edges.I did find this nice > article on a big sandy bottomed (with some pebbles) fora > clown loach tank.. but it was light colored > sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ < sand.http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium/ > _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:37:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32070	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

Hi Peaches, Not everyone hates this fish, and while some individuals may be quite peaceful, they are never the less hybrids which (aside from a few certain beneficially enhanced cross-breeds/crossed-species in our hobby), are generally frowned upon as most breeding endeavors are done to promote the individual species, not to mix it -- most often resulting in poorer specimens than either parent. You apparently have heard wrong, or have heard only a half-truth. While many such Blood Parrot Cichlid results are sterile, there is always a faction that remain fertile and are capable of procreating a succeeding generation -- and/or, are capable of breeding back to one or the other of its parents' species, thereby contaminating that species if they are sold and the buyer not being aware of this consequence, believing they are buying a pure species if the physical appearance of this generation to the parent species is similar. If you have read this on the < www.parrotcichlid.com > site, of the BP's being sterile (I have not gone to it to read the site), this is then a typical example of not believing everything you read -- especially on these web sites, as anyone (however misinformed they may be) may post erroneous information. Web sites are not automatically to be taken as gospel, as many times they contain wrong information posted by people who think they know it all but only serve to misinform someone who sees the info as being authoritive. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Peaches <Iluvdoves@...> wrote: > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > Hope this Helps Some, > Peaches > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another > fish that is also known as a parrot cichlid, _Hoplarchus psittacus_, but > you will not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the > hybrid parrot, and think that they should not be offered for sale, but > that is another whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it > now. This may be a reason why you have not received any replies to your > post, though it has been available for better than 12 hours. > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias > against these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive > fish. Trying to introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the > male, for both, or for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to > you. Many cichlids are not known for their gentleness to each other, or > their mates. Even if you use a tank divider to keep the two separate, > once the barrier is gone, all the decorum you may have noted will > quickly disappear up the filter siphon tube, never to return. > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of > mine today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple > of smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he > came downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass > tank top was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, > and he thinks one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does > not know exactly what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not > invited to the party <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the > Washington DC area that would like a couple of pacu?] > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the > fry, have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large > would you need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market > for a mongrel fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to > that size? Truth be told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, > for raising the young to this point, you will probably just make enough > to offset some of your expense. > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or > otherwise changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot > ciclid, and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color > from dark orange to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is > very aggressive so i don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I > been told in other forums that a convict ciclid will do fine but i > don't know this is my wife fish. shes had her for 10 years or so. Any > ideas? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32071	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > >(Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI thought you were looking for > > black sand? LOLI know.. it's a woman's prerogative to change her > > mind! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf > > Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a > > test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel > > Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message----- > > From: bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, > > 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts called Estes and it says > > safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors andis nice.Sent via > > BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: bubuci@ > > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: Mon, > > 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood tips, thanks for the > > research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has anotherbrand of sand that > > comes in colors, will report to you when I have moreinfo. :). Maybe > > there's one out there that won't require > > grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-- -- > > -Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 09:59:45To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've never done it so you > > would have to experiment. It's just an idea I hadread while looking > > at some other fish forum threads while trying to find asuitable black > > sand for you. The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had > > their own already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop > > or hobby shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought > > about using one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the > > pillowcase option as a low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the > > sand betweenyour fingers first and then put it in the dryer for an > > hour or two.Feel it again (and you would likely see a lot of dust on > > the pillow caseanyhow which would give you an idea of how much > > grinding down took place)and keep tumbling it in the dryer an hour at > > a time until it feels smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist > > discussed in his article, the roughness of thesubstrate may not be as > > much of an issue as some make it out to be since inthe wild, the fish > > live in a variety of substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky > > bottoms. I think it might be more of a water quality (and > > bacterialissues in the sand) rather than the rough sand that might be > > causing theproblems as well. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a > > few dollars on acommercial sized coin dryer to tumble the sand for a > > few hours just to helptake some of the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish > > Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com > <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > > Tested on: 10/29/2008 2:49:12 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 3:11:15 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 3:19:24 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32072	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

It used to be until we found out how many Libra's there are... now we're taking over. LOL (I guess the Lithium hasn't kicked in over here yet. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 9:58:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32073	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?

Eric, When you say "a little higher than room temp", how high is that? Weather (aka Dojo) Loaches are cool/cold water fish. If you are keeping them at tropical temps, that would lead to them being less active. One of the reasons they live in cool/cold fast moving waters is they need high O2 levels in their water and warmer waters do not have as high of O2 levels as cooler waters.. and then fast moving waters will likely have much higher O2 levels as well due to the added agitation. They could be less active or lethargic due to low O2 levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? I have both and keep the water at a little higher than room temperature (from the lighting). I had thought they had died or were eaten (or both) until I removed my UGF and there there were happily hiding underneath. Now they only come out whenthe weather is bad . Apparently they are a bit sensitive to pressure changes which is what earned them the nickname "Weather Loach". They are totally peacefiul.mostly hiding if they can. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Jennifer! Thanks for your reply! :D what temp do you keep your Dojos in? What size tank? How big are they? I actually do have 2 Kuhlis, one is a Java though, but they hang out together but don't do much else, they hide a lot. I really like the aspect of the weather loach reacting to weather changes. Fun! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Walker <Risika23@yahoo. <mailto:Risika23%40yahoo.com> com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:47:31 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? I have both gold and regular dojos in one tank. The plain dojos seem to be more active and slightly bigger. I would not keep just one though. They really love to be in groups. Mine play and swim around with eachother. If your tank is a little warmer you might try Black Kuhli Loaches. They are much smaller, around 2in, so you could possibly keep a group. I do not have snails so I dont know about that one but I would bet that Kuhlis would be too small to eat your snails. Both kuhlis and Dojo are very peace full. I keep them with Danios in one tank and Corys in another and have never had a problem. Jennifer --- On Sat, 10/25/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 10:17 AM I've never kept them, but like all fish, the best bet is to try and provide them with their preferred environment. .. including tank size, shoaling mates, etc., but I'm sure people have been successful with them outside of their preferred parameters. They are cool water fish, not tropical fish, and your snails/shrimp may become snacks. http://www.loaches. com/species- index/weather- loach-misgurnis- anguillicaudatu s http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_dojo.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> ry.net Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Hey Gang, Does anyone have experience with Weather or Dojo Loaches? I'm considering getting one, I know you are supposed to have a group, but my tank can't handle it. I can do 1, but 3 will be overcrowded I think. How many gallons per Dojo and will they do ok with regular gravel? What do they like to eat? What color do most of you prefer, Gold or Original? Will they bother my Mystery Snails or Ghost Shrimp? Will they get on with a Blue Ram? Thanks in advance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:17:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 8:16:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:02:09 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

You must have not watched the X-Files. How do you know we haven't been injected with advanced alien DNA? How do you explain Dennis Rodman? LOL But yes, I do agree with your analogy that GloFish technically are "mongrels" of a sort due to the injected DNA from another species but the DNA was simply into their pigmentation cells rather than something that was going to result in a hybridized fish. For example... What about a human who gets some kind of life-saving surgery where they use a pig's heart valve transplant to save a life.. or even a heart transplant. Does that make them a human-pig hybrid? If that person was to have children, would their children be human-pig hybrids? I don't think so... well, not unless they come out with funny snouts, roll around in mud puddles and start oinking. LOL As far as the "fancy" goldfish, etc., in the wild, a mutated fish is far more likely to be naturally culled from the population (aka eaten) before it ever has a chance to procreate... although I'm sure there are exceptions. Only due to man's interference and saving these mutant goldfish to breed with other mutant goldfish for the sole purpose of creating a new strain of mutant goldfish, do these fish have much of a chance to survive.... and now be sold as "fancy" goldfish. I have a couple that I bought before I realized what was done to "create" these mutants.. lol.. but that doesn't mean I agree with what was done. These man-made goldfish have much shorter life spans and far more health issues than God-made "normal" goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate As I see it, Glofish are mongrels in the sense that they are the product of two different species. While they are not a hybridized fish, resulting from the breeding of two different species (the Zebra Danio was not bred with the Jellyfish), with the addition of Jellyfish DNA they are no longer 100% Zebra Danio -- as is obvious by their appearance (they will forever be part Jellyfish, as long as man procreates them). If you wish to continue the fish known as Brachydanio zebra as it appears in its naturally evolved form as a species, you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra Danio; you will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not Zebra DNA) with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. Neither, are these mutant fish, as mutated fish are the result of the mutation (change) of given species' genes -- not the addition of another species' DNA by man -- it is a result of INHERITED characteristics from that particular species' two parents (of the same species). Fancy Goldfish, other long-finned variants of other species and differing body types, coloration, etc., of some species are the result of inbreeding these species to "fix" these mutations (the individual species' gene changes) to develop a "strain" from these sports. But these fish are not injected with DNA from an entirely different species, as has been done by man with Glofish. These mutant fish which are developed by taking advantage of a species changed/mutated genes (not being injected with another's DNA) and being inbred by man are still 100% the same species. This process is an ongoing one in the wild, called evolution, when mutations appear in a species' gene pool which are better suited to survive and take better advantage of its environment than does its present gene complement. It is the process whereby we got here through the eons -- and we were not injected with another species' DNA, but by mutating. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > No, GloFish are not mongrels, just genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. > Genetically, they are still 100% Zebra Danio's... but several generations > ago (ZD generations, not ours), some mad scientist types.. lol.. injected > some ZD eggs with various glowing DNA from Jellyfish, other marine fish, > etc., to cause the babies to be born with the day-glo coloring. They are > not hybridized fish like the Parrot Cichlids. Same with Fancy Goldfish, > long-finned variants of other fish, etc., and their morphed body types and > features... it was all done with inbreeding of mutant fish from their > species to other mutant fish from their species so genetically, they're > still 100% genetically pure... at least I think so. > > I guess it would be comparable to a mad scientist type taking a human embryo > and altering it's genetics so that it would be born and have bright purple > or green hair. It's still human... it will just have to spend more on > Clairol products or learn how to fight and/or defend itself in school. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bubuci@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > Peaches, > My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch them chase > each other, but no aggression. > > Hope this helps :) > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@... <mailto:Iluvdoves%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > Hope this Helps Some, > Peaches > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish > that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has > been available for better than 12 hours. > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon > tube, never to return. > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would > like a couple of pacu?] > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your > expense. > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 2:50:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 3:00:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 8:57:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:17:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32075	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

DANG... that's what I get for typing in the middle of the night after being rudely awakened by my smoke alarm going off when the heater kicked on for the first time this year... putting out that burned lint/dust smell. Stupid smoke detector would go off so I had to rip it off the wall. LOL Or maybe I was still disappointed that the first typo URL did not bring up a porn site. LOL So did my typo's URL bring up a porn site? LOL Maybe I need to change my Outlook settings to alert on URL's when auto-spell checking as well. Right now, I have it set to ignore the spelling on URL's since it would alert far too often when spell checking. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate Yes, the link has two "r's," but it will work even better with only one "t" and the removal of the extraneous "h," as < www.parrotcichlid.com >. <g>. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It should be http://www.parrottchichlid.com <http://www.parrottchichlid.com> (with two r's). Luckily, the > one "r" link didn't open up a porn page. Did I just say luckily? I meant > DARN! LOL > > Here's a Cichlid-Forum.com thread on Blood Parrots. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=180886 > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=180886> > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php? > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?> t=180886&sid=f30a5001abfc9 > 9dc78158f6b35640d97> &sid=f30a5001abfc99dc78158f6b35640d97 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Peaches > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > Hope this Helps Some, > Peaches > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish > that is also known as a parrot cichlid, _Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has > been available for better than 12 hours. > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon > tube, never to return. > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would > like a couple of pacu?] > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your > expense. > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 2:46:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 9:07:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:27:30 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: FW Sand Substates

LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Yes, but they're in China. Fish, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:37:28 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates Libra's of the world... UNITE and conquer!!!! If we can get them scales flailing, we might be a formidable weapon of mass destruction... at least in our living rooms or like the bull in the china shop. Do they shill have china shops? LOL ;-) FISH. (Gotta keep it on topic! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Carolyn Morse Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates My birthday is September 29 @--->---- --- On Tue, 10/28/08, pam andress < pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > wrote: > From: pam andress < pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 5:14 PM Wow that makes three Libras > here. My b-day was the 8th. > Happy Birthday to everyone. > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue to > natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the black. > I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I sure > wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 > -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the 22nd > andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I had > Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.netSent> : Tuesday, October 28, 2008 > 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! > When is/was it?You're right, maybe the black then. > Yes maybe its a woman thing, but itspretty bad sometimes > lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original > Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:39:11To: > < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra > but my mom says that since I was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio > tendencies... whatever that means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or > put much credence in horoscopes but I certainly understandthe > entertainment value in it for those that do.... so don't blame it > onbeing a Libra. We all know it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that > you're taking your time in deciding. I personally would gowith a > natural substrate but either the black or tan/white sand is also > goodchoices since they are also somewhat natural looking. I have and > have hadvarious colors of gravel over the years and after a while, > especially oncegetting into planted tanks, I wish I had more natural > looking substrates inthose tanks.Changing out the substrate is a > chore, not only to you but to the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's > best to start off with something that willdefinitely be something you > want for long term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >(Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month > and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 > 6:23 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I > say, that's a typical Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had > two 5lbs bags of black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it > so I guess that influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag > yet because I was thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go > on for days! Lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:41:48To: > < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI > thought you were looking for black sand? LOLI know.. > it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind! > LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > >< http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >(Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original > Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ]On Behalf Of bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent : > Monday, October 27, 2008 1:05 PMTo: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: > Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI got a small bag and will do a > test at home to see what happens. :) its apretty red like my gravel > Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:18:47To: < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesIts > called Estes and it says safe for marine and fresh. Comes in colors > andis nice.Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original > Message-----From: > bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net><mai lto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net>Date: > Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:30:36To: < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesGood > tips, thanks for the research. I'm on the way to a LFS that has > anotherbrand of sand that comes in colors, will report to you when I > have moreinfo. :). Maybe there's one out there that won't require > grinding.Cheers,TaniaThanks,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T-Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct > 2008 09:59:45To: < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand SubstatesI've > never done it so you would have to experiment. It's just an idea I > hadread while looking at some other fish forum threads while trying to > find asuitable black sand for you. > The person who mentioned it was a rockcollector and had their own > already so you might check with a local rockcollector shop or hobby > shop. They use them for polishing the rocks. I justthought about using > one of the commercial sized coin dryers and the pillowcase option as a > low cost alternative. I'd probably feel the sand betweenyour fingers > first and then put it in the dryer for an hour or two.Feel it again > (and you would likely see a lot of dust on the pillow caseanyhow which > would give you an idea of how much grinding down took place)and keep > tumbling it in the dryer an hour at a time until it feels > smoothenough.Like The Skeptical Aquarist discussed in his article, the > roughness of thesubstrate may not be as much of an issue as some make > it out to be since inthe wild, the fish live in a variety of > substrates from silt/sandy bottomsto rocky bottoms. I think it might > be more of a water quality (and bacterialissues in the sand) rather > than the rough sand that might be causing theproblems as well. Of > course, it wouldn't hurt to spend a few dollars on acommercial sized > coin dryer to tumble the sand for a few hours just to helptake some of > the edges off.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:28:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32077	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32078	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Stock Level

Hi all, I recently got advice that I should not have 5 goldfish in a 30 gallon. I have had no pH issues, I plan on moving them or finding them new homes when they get too large in about a year (maybe they will be ok for good, for longer, for less, but I wont keep them in a tank they cant swim in), they have more than enough room - they look fine, its not like it looks as if they dont have enough room, they are happy and healthy and very active. I also have a happy healthy betta and pleco with them. Why would I see bettas in large tanks with all kinds of fish at every pet store - from the small privately owned family ones, to the big chains - if bettas would die from that?? I also was told that bettas should not be kept it regular tanks and not with other fish, and all kinds of other things that made them sound so high maintenance I thought we were talking about 2 different fish. I was even told my pleco will eat my betta! Now I wanted to run this all by you all because I consider you guys the experts, and being new, I hear lots of advice but not all sits well with me because it doesnt fit common sense wise with what I see daily going on in both my tanks. I mean, my water is crystal clear, and my fish all look and act like they are thriving. I had some questions because my betta for a few days was trying to hide (hes fine now), shared this with a betta yahoo group, and that is what prompted this. SO - what do you all think?? Does anyone else out there have an issue with people who tell you bettas are "happy" in a tank the size of a wine glass with no filtration, plants, ect?? Mine have a who eco system and plenty of room and clean water, but I was told to move them into those nasty betta "cups" and that - heaven forbid! - one was in with goldfish!! I only did this because I saw the same thing in hundreds of tanks at hundreds of aquarium shops and everyone I asked said it should be just fine - no issues yet, so I would assume its all good! What do you all think?? Thanks for your help in advance. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32079	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tank heater emergency i think

Think I'll be adding another - since the temperature dropped and the menopausal woman needs the window open, the tank temperature is dropping to 74 degrees and the fish only nibble at their breakfast. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:23 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think No comment! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Lenny, I myself have two 50 watt heaters for a 20 gallon tank, but I live in central Texas. Even at my house teh temperature often dips into the 60's in the winter. I don't nkow about New Orleans, where you live. In most of the country frugal people don't heat their homes above 68 except in the summer, and many don't keep their homes that warm. I spent most of my life in New York State. I know that in the house my father built, my bedroom was only 55 in the winter. 65 is a usual temperature, adn there were winters when it was hard to pay the heating bills with the thermostat set at 60. And very well off people are usually the most frugal of all when it comes to heat; they don't believe in environmental nor financial waste. I boarded in the house of a college dean, and the temperature was around 60 and everyone put on big sweaters, and when I was doing some sort of campaigning people in hte large nice houses all had big heavy sweaters on. I learned to think that you spotted who never paid their heating bills by whose house was warm! And certainly I never had housemates who intended to pay the heating bills who insisted that the thermostat should be kept above 70. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think Dora, I just wanted to clear up your comment about "100 watts per 10 gallons". For typical temperature controlled homes, where the temperature is kept between 72-78F, no more than 5W per gallon is needed, so a 50W heater is sufficient. Now, if someone allows their home temperature to dip down into the 60's or lower, then more than 5W per gallon would be needed, especially on a smaller sized tank. I certainly agree with having redundancy in tanks... whether it be heaters or filter systems but this is sometimes harder to do on smaller tanks like a 10G, without the hardware affecting the aesthetics of the tank too much. Having two 25W heaters, instead of one 50W heater in a 10G tank would be better in the event of heater failure... whether in the stuck on or stuck off positions... if the 25W heaters are short enough where they could both be laid down across the back of the tank so they aren't such distractions. I did a 10G tank with "Heater Failure Experiment" (title of the article) a couple of years ago and documented the drastic temperature swings that can happen in a 10G tank with a single heater that fails. My article is on my blog. This is another reason why it's actually easier to take care of larger tanks as the water parameters are more stabile. A 55G tank would take much, much longer to change temperature, compared to a 10G tank, so a heater failure or a temperature change in your home would not affect a 55G tank nearly as fast as in a 10G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think If the problem is a heater overheated the tank, if you simply turn off the heater the heat should dissipate. If teh fish haven't got heat stroke tehn no need to take more urgent action. Too few heaters or a broken heater could have caused this so you'll probably have to replace teh heater. Visitherm is a good brand. And if you have less than 100 watts per 10 gallons you may need to add more. Usually several heaters in teh tank is a good way to help avoid this sort fo thing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@... <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> <mailto:azzuron%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:54 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish tank heater emergency i think I know large temp fluctuation is bad. Some how my heater got set to a very high temperature the other night i guess, i dont know when or exactly how. But the main thing is right now my tanks temp is 90 Degrees. My fish are all very active, which i thought was rather odd as they generally are a lot slower and more relaxed. So what should i do to bring my tank into a normal temp range? Should i just set the heater to an appropriate temp and let the heat dissipate? or should i lower the temp over days with the setting? If i should incrementally adjust how many days should i do it over and about how many degerees? I tihnk i need a new heater this ones settings change when you bump it funny and you have no idea what its temerature settings are really set at. its just one of those relative things. --Dave _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 12:50:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:59:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:23:16 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32080	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: my fish mess

That sounds like just about the right amount of fish to me, unless your tank is brand new, in which case you're supposed to start with one to three fish adn build up gradually. I have 25 small fish in a 20 gallon tank, and they're thriving, but I do work alot harder at keeping the tank clean than if I really wanted to look at a tank with only a fwe fish in it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "jjmiltner" <jjmiltner@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:26 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? Thanks Jennie ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32081	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32082	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

Wicked evil grin http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=W.E.G. http://www.chatropolis.com/chat_dictionary.html http://www.chatref.com/acronym/weg Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32083	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32084	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Thsi is a record of six instances of finding single danios over 15 years. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Couple more and I found this. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?SpeciesID=505 -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 9:51 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32085	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Looks like what I was just looking at. Only the first link doesn't work. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Mike, How could you possibly find that listing???? Could it possibly be that you followed the line-by-line, clearly itemized instructions I posted for someone else? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12% 3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:59:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:25:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32086	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Well, to be sure, now, they can't be expected to find invisible fish! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Interesting... the NAS.ER.USGS.GOV site doesn't have ZD's listed in Louisiana yet the Gulf States site does have them listed for Louisiana. Typical US government... the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and we have to pay for it all. No government program would be able to keep their job if the program was in the private sector.. or if they did, at least I wouldn't be forced to support the waste. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Couple more and I found this. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?SpeciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?SpeciesID=505> -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 9:51 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12% 3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:59:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:31:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32087	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32088	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Dora   Are you trying to set a record for the most e-mails on one subject.   John in Nevada --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 10:57 AM Well, to be sure, now, they can't be expected to find invisible fish! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Interesting. .. the NAS.ER.USGS. GOV site doesn't have ZD's listed in Louisiana yet the Gulf States site does have them listed for Louisiana. Typical US government.. . the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and we have to pay for it all. No government program would be able to keep their job if the program was in the private sector.. or if they did, at least I wouldn't be forced to support the waste. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. com Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Couple more and I found this. http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? SpeciesID= 505 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? SpeciesID= 505> -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 9:51 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12% 3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r= <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/ <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ , <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ ,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/ <http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars- at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> <http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:59:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:31:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32089	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning and grammatical implications of *weg,* ...  does anyone have any insight into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see-through snails.  Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast.com > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32090	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Stock Level

IMO, Bettas should be kept in a min. of a 5g tank. And more room is always better. With Goldfish, I think 2 would be okay in a 30g. Goldfish won't alter the pH...you want to keep an eye on your nitrate, nitrite and ammonia levels. As far as I know, the pleco will not eat the betta. But some plecos will grow really big, and it may not be suitable for your 30g. I'm still a kind of beginner, so I am sure the more knowledge folks will chime in soon! -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Katie Craft <mom2angeldog@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:18 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Stock Level Hi all, I recently got advice that I should not have 5 goldfish in a 30 gallon. I have had no pH issues, I plan on moving them or finding them new homes when they get too large in about a year (maybe they will be ok for good, for longer, for less, but I wont keep them in a tank they cant swim in), they have more than enough room - they look fine, its not like it looks as if they dont have enough room, they are happy and healthy and very active. I also have a happy healthy betta and pleco with them. Why would I see bettas in large tanks with all kinds of fish at every pet store - from the small privately owned family ones, to the big chains - if bettas would die from that?? I also was told that bettas should not be kept it regular tanks and not with other fish, and all kinds of other things that made them sound so high maintenance I thought we were talking about 2 different fish. I was even told my pleco will eat my betta! Now I wanted to run this all by you all because I consider you guys the experts, and being new, I hear lots of advice but not all sits well with me because it doesnt fit common sense wise with what I see daily going on in both my tanks. I mean, my water is crystal clear, and my fish all look and act like they are thriving. I had some questions because my betta for a few days was trying to hide (hes fine now), shared this with a betta yahoo group, and that is what prompted this. SO - what do you all think?? Does anyone else out there have an issue with people who tell you bettas are "happy" in a tank the size of a wine glass with no filtration, plants, ect?? Mine have a who eco system and plenty of room and clean water, but I was told to move them into those nasty betta "cups" and that - heaven forbid! - one was in with goldfish!! I only did this because I saw the same thing in hundreds of tanks at hundreds of aquarium shops and everyone I asked said it should be just fine - no issues yet, so I would assume its all good! What do you all think?? Thanks for your help in advance. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32091	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

thanks, I read it before I shared it with you. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:55 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Thsi is a record of six instances of finding single danios over 15 years. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Couple more and I found this. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?SpeciesID=505 -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 9:51 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn

Hey now Jackie... Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to conquer the world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't recall seeing any posts about either of these topics. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning and grammatical implications of *weg,* ... does anyone have any insight into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see-through snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@... <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:31:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:58:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32093	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn

Yup, that would have been the very first post beginning with "another Libra."  Not that it's earthshakingly important, but I am curious... Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:58:47 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) Hey now Jackie... Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to conquer the world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't recall seeing any posts about either of these topics. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning and grammatical implications of *weg,* ... does anyone have any insight into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see-through snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Roberts" < woad@... <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html > > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:31:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:58:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn

OK. I scrolled down through the many replies and found this: > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie What size tank do you have? Water parameters? Filtration? Etc.? Rams do best with one male and several females until a pair if formed, then they do best as the only Rams in the tank but can cohabitate in a community tank. I wouldn't ever advise someone to get a shoal of loaches without knowing if they have a large enough tank to handle the additional bioload. Snails can be brought back under control using proper cleaning of the gravel and snail traps like a slice of cucumber, etc., instead of adding more fish. As far as the snails, how big are they? Are they just little clear things (1/8" or so) on the glass? If yes, those are likely either egg cluster from nuisance snails or they could be limpets which are a very small and mostly clear invert and the ones I've had do not really move around from what I can see but somehow just show up on the glass... probably due to being nocturnal or something... so I don't see them moving around with the lights out. Here's some sites (that I have in my favorites folder) about the various other critters that live in our tanks, often never seen. After looking over all of these critters, one might not want to put their hands in their aquariums again. LOL http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php (See if this is what you have... the top section/pics) http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Ancylidae.ht ml http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://members.aol.com/larval1/critters.htm http://www.caudata.org/daphnia/ http://members.aol.com/mkohl2/Fwlimpets.html http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) Yup, that would have been the very first post beginning with "another Libra." Not that it's earthshakingly important, but I am curious... Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:58:47 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) Hey now Jackie... Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to conquer the world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't recall seeing any posts about either of these topics. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning and grammatical implications of *weg,* ... does anyone have any insight into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see-through snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Roberts" < woad@... <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> > > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:31:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:58:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 1:10:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32095	From: Alina	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Bruce?

Hi, Was trying to figure out whatever happened with Bruce the Eel. I'm in the news biz so I was telling a friend about this effort to get Bruce a home...and thinking what a great story Bruce would make. Not for me, but I thought local paper, Sacramento Bee, prolly would do it... Just curious if Bruce found a home. Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32096	From: pam andress	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

Ray, I aked this question to some people as I had 2 pink glofish and 1 zebra danio. I got rid of them at a auction and two days later found babies in my tank. They are about half and half glofish to reg danios. I was told that the zebra danios of this type of mateing would not be able to produce glofish if they bred. Now I breed shelties and if you have a puppy from a bi colored dog that is not bi colored, it will be bi factored and can produce bi colored puppies if bred to the right dog. Wouldn't that be the same here? If say two of my zebra danios bred, why couldn't they produce gowfish if one of their parents was a glofish? It is in their background. Pam , you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra Danio; you will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not Zebra DNA) with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32097	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

Lenny, You seem to be "conveniently missing" (or temporarily forgetting) a MAJOR point in all of this, unless you didn't fully understand how these fish were developed when we had the extensive discussion on these fish back in March of this year, which included discussion by Alan Blake et al. But I'm fairly convinced you have grasped the concept, at least back then, when you referred to these Glo-Fish as "Genetic Mutants" in your post # 26687 (3/18/08) -- 1st sentence, 4th paragraph. Yes, the DNA controlling bioluminenescence was injected from another species (a marine Jellyfish -- Aequorea victoria, from Puget Sound), and yes, this DNA controls the pigmentation of the Zebrafish's chloroplast (color) cells -- but this Jellyfish DNA is not merely injected into the fish's pigmentation (chloroplast/color) cells, it is injected into and added on to the fish's genome; these fish are genetically altered. As you stated back in March, this fish is a GENETIC mutant, and you were close as at least you realize that the genetics of this fish have changed (but not through mutation), by being genetically modified; there is a difference. This Coding DNA (as opposed to non-Coding DNA) from the Jellyfish becomes part of the genome make-up of the Zebrafish. Genome (or "Gamete") = The full set of chromosomes of an organism, and includes both the Genes (Coding sequences of DNA) and non-Coding sequences of DNA. The genetic make-up of these Glo-Fish have been permanently altered, so that when they breed, the Jellyfish's DNA is passed along within the eggs and milt of these fish as part of their increased (added to) chromosome make-up. Now, lets take that human with a pig's heart transplant. Why should that make him a human-pig hybrid? There has been no exchange or addition of DNA in this man's genome -- and without his gene's receiving DNA/Chromosomes from the pig, he cannot pass on any pig DNA (genes) on to his children, as you too point out. But the point here is there is a vast difference between adding another animal's physical parts (heart valves, hearts, etc.) and another animal's chromosomes (DNA) directly into a recipient's genome/chromosome make- up where breeding would pass this along perpetually without further interferance or promotion. In the wild, as you know -- its only the survival of the fittest. A man-developed/engineered (line-bred) mutated Goldfish obviously will not survive very long. On the other hand, if a mutation appears in the wild that is even better suited to the survival of a fish than its present complement of genes suits it (which these present genes HAS served it WELL to have evolved up to this point), this mutation (better genes) will out-perform its present genes and slowly overshadow its present genes, advancing this fish to enable it to better survive its environment. This is how man developed from swinging in the trees to walking on the Savanah, with increasingly better genes developed through subsequent mutations. Ray P.S.: Even such mutations as the recessive Albino appear from time to time in the wild, in fish populations (and Bison, and Elephants, and Reptiles, etc.), but as they do not promote the advancement of the survival of the species, those individuals are soon eliminated as they stand out like a sore thumb to their predators. --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You must have not watched the X-Files. How do you know we haven't been > injected with advanced alien DNA? How do you explain Dennis Rodman? LOL > > But yes, I do agree with your analogy that GloFish technically are > "mongrels" of a sort due to the injected DNA from another species but the > DNA was simply into their pigmentation cells rather than something that was > going to result in a hybridized fish. For example... > > What about a human who gets some kind of life-saving surgery where they use > a pig's heart valve transplant to save a life.. or even a heart transplant. > Does that make them a human-pig hybrid? If that person was to have > children, would their children be human-pig hybrids? I don't think so... > well, not unless they come out with funny snouts, roll around in mud puddles > and start oinking. LOL > > As far as the "fancy" goldfish, etc., in the wild, a mutated fish is far > more likely to be naturally culled from the population (aka eaten) before it > ever has a chance to procreate... although I'm sure there are exceptions. > Only due to man's interference and saving these mutant goldfish to breed > with other mutant goldfish for the sole purpose of creating a new strain of > mutant goldfish, do these fish have much of a chance to survive.... and now > be sold as "fancy" goldfish. I have a couple that I bought before I > realized what was done to "create" these mutants.. lol.. but that doesn't > mean I agree with what was done. These man-made goldfish have much shorter > life spans and far more health issues than God-made "normal" goldfish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:50 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > As I see it, Glofish are mongrels in the sense that they are the product of > two different species. While they are not a hybridized fish, resulting from > the breeding of two different species (the Zebra Danio was not bred with the > Jellyfish), with the addition of Jellyfish DNA they are no longer 100% Zebra > Danio -- as is obvious by their appearance (they will forever be part > Jellyfish, as long as man procreates them). If you wish to continue the fish > known as Brachydanio zebra as it appears in its naturally evolved form as a > species, you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra Danio; you > will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not Zebra DNA) > with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. > > Neither, are these mutant fish, as mutated fish are the result of the > mutation (change) of given species' genes -- not the addition of another > species' DNA by man -- it is a result of INHERITED characteristics from that > particular species' two parents (of the same species). > > Fancy Goldfish, other long-finned variants of other species and differing > body types, coloration, etc., of some species are the result of inbreeding > these species to "fix" these mutations (the individual species' gene > changes) to develop a "strain" from these sports. But these fish are not > injected with DNA from an entirely different species, as has been done by > man with Glofish. These mutant fish which are developed by taking advantage > of a species changed/mutated genes (not being injected with another's DNA) > and being inbred by man are still 100% the same species. > > This process is an ongoing one in the wild, called evolution, when mutations > appear in a species' gene pool which are better suited to survive and take > better advantage of its environment than does its present gene complement. > It is the process whereby we got here through the eons -- and we were not > injected with another species' > DNA, but by mutating. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > No, GloFish are not mongrels, just genetically enhanced Zebra > Danio's. > > Genetically, they are still 100% Zebra Danio's... but several > generations > > ago (ZD generations, not ours), some mad scientist types.. lol.. > injected > > some ZD eggs with various glowing DNA from Jellyfish, other marine > fish, > > etc., to cause the babies to be born with the day-glo coloring. > They are > > not hybridized fish like the Parrot Cichlids. Same with Fancy > Goldfish, > > long-finned variants of other fish, etc., and their morphed body > types and > > features... it was all done with inbreeding of mutant fish from > their > > species to other mutant fish from their species so genetically, > they're > > still 100% genetically pure... at least I think so. > > > > I guess it would be comparable to a mad scientist type taking a > human embryo > > and altering it's genetics so that it would be born and have bright > purple > > or green hair. It's still human... it will just have to spend more > on > > Clairol products or learn how to fight and/or defend itself in > school. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of bubuci@ > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:21 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > Peaches, > > My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch > them chase > > each other, but no aggression. > > > > Hope this helps :) > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@ <mailto:Iluvdoves%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never > aggressive. I > > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You > might want > > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > > > Hope this Helps Some, > > Peaches > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is > another fish > > that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, but > you will > > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid > parrot, > > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is > another > > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This > may be a > > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though > it has > > been available for better than 12 hours. > > > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not > even > > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias > against > > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. > Trying to > > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for > both, or > > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many > cichlids are > > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even > if you > > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is > gone, all > > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter > siphon > > tube, never to return. > > > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate > before > > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend > of mine > > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple > of > > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when > he came > > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass > tank top > > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and > he thinks > > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know > exactly > > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to > the party > > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area > that would > > like a couple of pacu?] > > > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise > the fry, > > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large > would you > > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a > mongrel > > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? > Truth be > > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the > young to > > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of > your > > expense. > > > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid > fish. > > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned > zebra > > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or > otherwise > > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood > parrot ciclid, > > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from > dark orange > > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive > so i > > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other > forums that > > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife > fish. shes > > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 2:50:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 3:00:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 8:57:37 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:17:49 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32098	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn

Thanks for the links, Lenny.  Most were quite interesting and in fact Heather's Snail Blog made  me laugh and my hair stand up at the same time.  Apparently my snails are of the Physa acuta persuasion, and old Heather mentions hers had transparent shells also.  I'm undecided on their fate, but guess they really aren't causing that much damage.  My tank is a 75 gallon with  a Marineland C-360 cannister filter plus two Aquaclear 50 powerheads with attached filters, and I'll have to test the water again although my kit doesn't have the test for nitrate.   I wondered if the one Ram would be okay alone, although he/she certainly doesn't act lonely.  Thanks for all the help, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:26:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) OK. I scrolled down through the many replies and found this: > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie What size tank do you have? Water parameters? Filtration? Etc.? Rams do best with one male and several females until a pair if formed, then they do best as the only Rams in the tank but can cohabitate in a community tank. I wouldn't ever advise someone to get a shoal of loaches without knowing if they have a large enough tank to handle the additional bioload. Snails can be brought back under control using proper cleaning of the gravel and snail traps like a slice of cucumber, etc., instead of adding more fish. As far as the snails, how big are they? Are they just little clear things (1/8" or so) on the glass? If yes, those are likely either egg cluster from nuisance snails or they could be limpets which are a very small and mostly clear invert and the ones I've had do not really move around from what I can see but somehow just show up on the glass... probably due to being nocturnal or something... so I don't see them moving around with the lights out. Here's some sites (that I have in my favorites folder) about the various other critters that live in our tanks, often never seen. After looking over all of these critters, one might not want to put their hands in their aquariums again. LOL http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php (See if this is what you have... the top section/pics) http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Ancylidae.ht ml http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://members.aol.com/larval1/critters.htm http://www.caudata.org/daphnia/ http://members.aol.com/mkohl2/Fwlimpets.html http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) Yup, that would have been the very first post beginning with "another Libra." Not that it's earthshakingly important, but I am curious... Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:58:47 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) Hey now Jackie... Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to conquer the world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't recall seeing any posts about either of these topics. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning and grammatical implications of *weg,* ... does anyone have any insight into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see-through snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Roberts" < woad@... <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html > < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html > > > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com > < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com > > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:31:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com < http://www.avast.com > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:58:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 1:10:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 1:26:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32099	From: bill1433	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Stock Level

Hi Katie! � I'm not even close to being an expert BUT, I�ve kept a lot of different fish over the years and am just returning to the hobby. � I have learned to approach all this simply.� Are the fish in the tank doing well? Is there fighting or picking among them?� And lastly, the point I consider the most important, do these fish have enough room to grow? � If the answer is �yes� to these questions then leave them alone, do your PWC�s fed them well, and enjoy them!� They are obviously enjoying you! � Experts give varying degree�s advice (you can�t do this-----don�t put this one with that one) BUT -----------------these are animals we are talking about, not humans.� Many animal types exhibit many forms of acceptance among themselves.� Dogs and cats are excellent examples.� With fish it�s a bit easier.� If they are all healthy and happy with no torn fins or sores and no picking or fighting and above all else, eating well.� Let them be and enjoy. � IMHO,� bill � � --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Dr. Katie Craft <mom2angeldog@...> wrote: From: Dr. Katie Craft <mom2angeldog@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Stock Level To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 11:18 AM Hi all, I recently got advice that I should not have 5 goldfish in a 30 gallon. I have had no pH issues, I plan on moving them or finding them new homes when they get too large in about a year (maybe they will be ok for good, for longer, for less, but I wont keep them in a tank they cant swim in), they have more than enough room - they look fine, its not like it looks as if they dont have enough room, they are happy and healthy and very active. I also have a happy healthy betta and pleco with them. Why would I see bettas in large tanks with all kinds of fish at every pet store - from the small privately owned family ones, to the big chains - if bettas would die from that?? I also was told that bettas should not be kept it regular tanks and not with other fish, and all kinds of other things that made them sound so high maintenance I thought we were talking about 2 different fish. I was even told my pleco will eat my betta! Now I wanted to run this all by you all because I consider you guys the experts, and being new, I hear lots of advice but not all sits well with me because it doesnt fit common sense wise with what I see daily going on in both my tanks. I mean, my water is crystal clear, and my fish all look and act like they are thriving. I had some questions because my betta for a few days was trying to hide (hes fine now), shared this with a betta yahoo group, and that is what prompted this. SO - what do you all think?? Does anyone else out there have an issue with people who tell you bettas are "happy" in a tank the size of a wine glass with no filtration, plants, ect?? Mine have a who eco system and plenty of room and clean water, but I was told to move them into those nasty betta "cups" and that - heaven forbid! - one was in with goldfish!! I only did this because I saw the same thing in hundreds of tanks at hundreds of aquarium shops and everyone I asked said it should be just fine - no issues yet, so I would assume its all good! What do you all think?? Thanks for your help in advance. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32100	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

Glad see you'll get some uninterupted sleep tonight <g>. Who needs those annoying smoke detectors anyway, they only activate when there's a fire. At most other times, they only serve to wake you from a sound sleep with no justification (LOL). Dang, fangled gadgets! Nope, no porn sites with the mis-spelling, but keep trying!!! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > DANG... that's what I get for typing in the middle of the night after being > rudely awakened by my smoke alarm going off when the heater kicked on for > the first time this year... putting out that burned lint/dust smell. Stupid > smoke detector would go off so I had to rip it off the wall. LOL > > Or maybe I was still disappointed that the first typo URL did not bring up a > porn site. LOL So did my typo's URL bring up a porn site? LOL > > Maybe I need to change my Outlook settings to alert on URL's when auto-spell > checking as well. Right now, I have it set to ignore the spelling on URL's > since it would alert far too often when spell checking. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:00 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > Yes, the link has two "r's," but it will work even better with only one "t" > and the removal of the extraneous "h," as < www.parrotcichlid.com >. <g>. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > It should be http://www.parrottchichlid.com > <http://www.parrottchichlid.com> (with two r's). > Luckily, the > > one "r" link didn't open up a porn page. Did I just say luckily? > I meant > > DARN! LOL > > > > Here's a Cichlid-Forum.com thread on Blood Parrots. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=180886 > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=180886> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php? > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?> > t=180886&sid=f30a5001abfc9 > > 9dc78158f6b35640d97> &sid=f30a5001abfc99dc78158f6b35640d97 > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Peaches > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:49 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never > aggressive. I > > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You > might want > > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > > > Hope this Helps Some, > > Peaches > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is > another fish > > that is also known as a parrot cichlid, _Hoplarchus psittacus_, but > you will > > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid > parrot, > > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is > another > > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This > may be a > > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though > it has > > been available for better than 12 hours. > > > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not > even > > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias > against > > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. > Trying to > > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for > both, or > > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many > cichlids are > > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even > if you > > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is > gone, all > > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter > siphon > > tube, never to return. > > > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate > before > > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend > of mine > > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple > of > > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when > he came > > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass > tank top > > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and > he thinks > > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know > exactly > > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to > the party > > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area > that would > > like a couple of pacu?] > > > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise > the fry, > > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large > would you > > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a > mongrel > > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? > Truth be > > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the > young to > > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of > your > > expense. > > > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid > fish. > > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned > zebra > > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or > otherwise > > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood > parrot ciclid, > > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from > dark orange > > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive > so i > > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other > forums that > > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife > fish. shes > > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 2:46:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 9:07:50 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:27:30 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32101	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

In this way, given enough "THREAD" she can sew her mouth shut or her fingers closed! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > Dora >   > Are you trying to set a record for the most e-mails on one subject. >   > John in Nevada > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 10:57 AM > > > > > > > Well, to be sure, now, they can't be expected to find invisible fish! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:31 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) > > Interesting. .. the NAS.ER.USGS. GOV site doesn't have ZD's listed in > Louisiana yet the Gulf States site does have them listed for Louisiana. > Typical US government.. . the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is > doing and we have to pay for it all. No government program would be able to > keep their job if the program was in the private sector.. or if they did, at > least I wouldn't be forced to support the waste. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. com > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) > > Couple more and I found this. > > http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? SpeciesID= 505 > <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? SpeciesID= 505> > > -----Original Message----- > From: Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 9:51 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) > > About 5 clicks and I found this > > http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12% > 3A47%3A22+AM > <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 > %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r= > <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 > %3A47%3A22+AM > <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 > %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r=> > > This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable > to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the > waters are warmer down there. > > -Mike > > I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a > > thing as invasive nonnative fish. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 % 40yahoo. com> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) > > Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a > > thing as invasive nonnative fish. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) > > Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive > > listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page > > where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. > > http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/ <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/> (You can > click on your state which then > > brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your > > State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the > > site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana > > has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). > > Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is > > good for a change! LOL > > I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have > > done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com > <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM > > To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife% 40yahoogroup s.com> ' > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) > > Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of > > non-native fish. > > On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other > > links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, > > "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ , > <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ ,> led to this page > > on just "Fishes" http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp > <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp> and then > > the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link > > http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes > <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes> led to a much > > longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the > > bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. > > WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another > > good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common > > tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" > > (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) > > http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869 > <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869> > > And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If > > you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. > > LOL > > http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505 > <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505> > > Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to > > this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. > > http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/ > <http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/> It shows it was > > last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as > > well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so > > maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that > > page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. > > Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars- at-waste > > so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I > > invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does > > effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... > > which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running > > everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). > > LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to > > be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was > > woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and > > link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be > > too simple for a government program. > > \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I > > know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf > > States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but > > the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com > <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM > > To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife% 40yahoogroup s.com> ' > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should > > I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is > > your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly > > pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that > > doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, > > trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this > > week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time > > to research this. > > Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not > > too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual > > information. > > If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry > > about at the moment. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully > > inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Danios aren't listed either. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single > > Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito > > control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, > > particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native > > to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen > > Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your > > area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. > > You'll see them listed on this page... > > http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> > > <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> > > > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. > > http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> <http://nis.gsmfc. org/ > <http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> > > > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" > > http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> > <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm > <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> > > is > > and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT > > have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay > > commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" > > Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the > > southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, > > according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely > > released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but > > I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have > > been found in other local waters in southern States. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first > > I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish > > you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, > > and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's > > frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? > > That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition > > to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive > > species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods > > affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, > > it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would > > compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com > <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com > <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 > > Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:59:42 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:31:57 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32102	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

I mostly agree with you except for the "man developed from swinging in the trees" part. Nothing I've ever read, other than various theories, suggests that Adam & Eve ever swang from trees. ;-) Now, Eve did eat that darned apple that we're all still paying for today... but that's a whole 'nother subject! LOL And I noticed you didn't try to explain the Dennis Rodman question. You know that aliens had to have implanted his genome with alien DNA. What other explanation can there be? LOL I don't know enough about genetics and DNA manipulation to know if the scientists who were injecting the jellyfish and marine fish DNA into the zebra danio embryo were able to do it in a manner where it was only into ONLY their pigmentation cells or into their entire DNA sequencing. I know, at least I've read, that with humans, they are able to inspect, alter, inject, etc., just the part of the DNA affecting a certain aspect of the human embryo but I'm sure what was being done on fish was less explicit than what is done with human embryo. That's probably what happened to Dennis Rodman... the aliens just injected the DNA into his entire genome rather than one isolated part. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate Lenny, You seem to be "conveniently missing" (or temporarily forgetting) a MAJOR point in all of this, unless you didn't fully understand how these fish were developed when we had the extensive discussion on these fish back in March of this year, which included discussion by Alan Blake et al. But I'm fairly convinced you have grasped the concept, at least back then, when you referred to these Glo-Fish as "Genetic Mutants" in your post # 26687 (3/18/08) -- 1st sentence, 4th paragraph. Yes, the DNA controlling bioluminenescence was injected from another species (a marine Jellyfish -- Aequorea victoria, from Puget Sound), and yes, this DNA controls the pigmentation of the Zebrafish's chloroplast (color) cells -- but this Jellyfish DNA is not merely injected into the fish's pigmentation (chloroplast/color) cells, it is injected into and added on to the fish's genome; these fish are genetically altered. As you stated back in March, this fish is a GENETIC mutant, and you were close as at least you realize that the genetics of this fish have changed (but not through mutation), by being genetically modified; there is a difference. This Coding DNA (as opposed to non-Coding DNA) from the Jellyfish becomes part of the genome make-up of the Zebrafish. Genome (or "Gamete") = The full set of chromosomes of an organism, and includes both the Genes (Coding sequences of DNA) and non-Coding sequences of DNA. The genetic make-up of these Glo-Fish have been permanently altered, so that when they breed, the Jellyfish's DNA is passed along within the eggs and milt of these fish as part of their increased (added to) chromosome make-up. Now, lets take that human with a pig's heart transplant. Why should that make him a human-pig hybrid? There has been no exchange or addition of DNA in this man's genome -- and without his gene's receiving DNA/Chromosomes from the pig, he cannot pass on any pig DNA (genes) on to his children, as you too point out. But the point here is there is a vast difference between adding another animal's physical parts (heart valves, hearts, etc.) and another animal's chromosomes (DNA) directly into a recipient's genome/chromosome make- up where breeding would pass this along perpetually without further interferance or promotion. In the wild, as you know -- its only the survival of the fittest. A man-developed/engineered (line-bred) mutated Goldfish obviously will not survive very long. On the other hand, if a mutation appears in the wild that is even better suited to the survival of a fish than its present complement of genes suits it (which these present genes HAS served it WELL to have evolved up to this point), this mutation (better genes) will out-perform its present genes and slowly overshadow its present genes, advancing this fish to enable it to better survive its environment. This is how man developed from swinging in the trees to walking on the Savanah, with increasingly better genes developed through subsequent mutations. Ray P.S.: Even such mutations as the recessive Albino appear from time to time in the wild, in fish populations (and Bison, and Elephants, and Reptiles, etc.), but as they do not promote the advancement of the survival of the species, those individuals are soon eliminated as they stand out like a sore thumb to their predators. --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You must have not watched the X-Files. How do you know we haven't been > injected with advanced alien DNA? How do you explain Dennis Rodman? LOL > > But yes, I do agree with your analogy that GloFish technically are > "mongrels" of a sort due to the injected DNA from another species but the > DNA was simply into their pigmentation cells rather than something that was > going to result in a hybridized fish. For example... > > What about a human who gets some kind of life-saving surgery where they use > a pig's heart valve transplant to save a life.. or even a heart transplant. > Does that make them a human-pig hybrid? If that person was to have > children, would their children be human-pig hybrids? I don't think so... > well, not unless they come out with funny snouts, roll around in mud puddles > and start oinking. LOL > > As far as the "fancy" goldfish, etc., in the wild, a mutated fish is far > more likely to be naturally culled from the population (aka eaten) before it > ever has a chance to procreate... although I'm sure there are exceptions. > Only due to man's interference and saving these mutant goldfish to breed > with other mutant goldfish for the sole purpose of creating a new strain of > mutant goldfish, do these fish have much of a chance to survive.... and now > be sold as "fancy" goldfish. I have a couple that I bought before I > realized what was done to "create" these mutants.. lol.. but that doesn't > mean I agree with what was done. These man-made goldfish have much shorter > life spans and far more health issues than God-made "normal" goldfish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:50 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > As I see it, Glofish are mongrels in the sense that they are the product of > two different species. While they are not a hybridized fish, resulting from > the breeding of two different species (the Zebra Danio was not bred with the > Jellyfish), with the addition of Jellyfish DNA they are no longer 100% Zebra > Danio -- as is obvious by their appearance (they will forever be part > Jellyfish, as long as man procreates them). If you wish to continue the fish > known as Brachydanio zebra as it appears in its naturally evolved form as a > species, you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra Danio; you > will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not Zebra DNA) > with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. > > Neither, are these mutant fish, as mutated fish are the result of the > mutation (change) of given species' genes -- not the addition of another > species' DNA by man -- it is a result of INHERITED characteristics from that > particular species' two parents (of the same species). > > Fancy Goldfish, other long-finned variants of other species and differing > body types, coloration, etc., of some species are the result of inbreeding > these species to "fix" these mutations (the individual species' gene > changes) to develop a "strain" from these sports. But these fish are not > injected with DNA from an entirely different species, as has been done by > man with Glofish. These mutant fish which are developed by taking advantage > of a species changed/mutated genes (not being injected with another's DNA) > and being inbred by man are still 100% the same species. > > This process is an ongoing one in the wild, called evolution, when mutations > appear in a species' gene pool which are better suited to survive and take > better advantage of its environment than does its present gene complement. > It is the process whereby we got here through the eons -- and we were not > injected with another species' > DNA, but by mutating. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > No, GloFish are not mongrels, just genetically enhanced Zebra > Danio's. > > Genetically, they are still 100% Zebra Danio's... but several > generations > > ago (ZD generations, not ours), some mad scientist types.. lol.. > injected > > some ZD eggs with various glowing DNA from Jellyfish, other marine > fish, > > etc., to cause the babies to be born with the day-glo coloring. > They are > > not hybridized fish like the Parrot Cichlids. Same with Fancy > Goldfish, > > long-finned variants of other fish, etc., and their morphed body > types and > > features... it was all done with inbreeding of mutant fish from > their > > species to other mutant fish from their species so genetically, > they're > > still 100% genetically pure... at least I think so. > > > > I guess it would be comparable to a mad scientist type taking a > human embryo > > and altering it's genetics so that it would be born and have bright > purple > > or green hair. It's still human... it will just have to spend more > on > > Clairol products or learn how to fight and/or defend itself in > school. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of bubuci@ > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:21 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > Peaches, > > My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch > them chase > > each other, but no aggression. > > > > Hope this helps :) > > > > Cheers, > > Tania > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@ <mailto:Iluvdoves%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never > aggressive. I > > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You > might want > > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > > > Hope this Helps Some, > > Peaches > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is > another fish > > that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, but > you will > > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid > parrot, > > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is > another > > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This > may be a > > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though > it has > > been available for better than 12 hours. > > > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not > even > > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias > against > > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. > Trying to > > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for > both, or > > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many > cichlids are > > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even > if you > > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is > gone, all > > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter > siphon > > tube, never to return. > > > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate > before > > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend > of mine > > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple > of > > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when > he came > > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass > tank top > > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and > he thinks > > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know > exactly > > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to > the party > > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area > that would > > like a couple of pacu?] > > > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise > the fry, > > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large > would you > > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a > mongrel > > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? > Truth be > > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the > young to > > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of > your > > expense. > > > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid > fish. > > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned > zebra > > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or > otherwise > > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood > parrot ciclid, > > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from > dark orange > > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive > so i > > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other > forums that > > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife > fish. shes > > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 3:56:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32103	From: olesonjo	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Sick goldfish, dropsy almost gone, doing better

The fancy goldfish with dropsy is doing much better, is back in the tank, with no divider, and getting along just fine with the other fish, who seemed to miss him. So I removed the carbon from the filter, and am treating the 20 gal tank. After the treatment is done, and I am finished reading ( see below), I'll set up the big tank, and I am sure they will be very happy, with lots of room to swim around. Thanks for the help, Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Depends on your filter system. See my blog article "Filter Profile - > Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheel", since this will probably be similar to your > filter cartridge, to see how I modified the filter cartridge on that system > to remove the carbon and add more filter floss media. > > Now might be a good time to modify your filter cartridge and get rid of the > carbon. > > While at my blog, also read my long article on proper "Filter Maintenance > And Cleaning" so you don't make the common mistakes that I go over in that > article. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32104	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

Hi Pam, Whether dog or fish, the genes will be carried by the offspring and will have the opportunity to appear in any future generation, depending on the dominance or recessiveness of the genes of the animal/fish and the genes that a future mate will offer in a mating. I believe, if either of your Glo-Fish/Danio bred with your regular Danio, 75% of your subsequent fry in the first generation will be pink Glo-Fish as this added gene for bioluminescence is dominant and will overshadow most of the color genes shared by the regular Zebra Danio in such a mating by 3/4. As Glo-Fish do not have a "double- dose" of the added genes from the Jellyfish, half of this fish's genes will be recessive and when combined with the regular Danio's color genes, will produce 25% regular Zebrafish coloration. At least that's how I see it; I could be wrong as the Jellyfish's complement of genes is not a normal chromosomal addition. There's always the chance that there was some mating between the two Glo-Fish as well, without the regular Zebra Danio, at least during some of the spawning sequences. These mating will of course result in all 100% Glo-Fish fry with both fish carrying the dominant bioluminenscence gene. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Ray, > > I aked this question to some people as I had 2 pink glofish and 1 zebra danio. I got rid of them at a auction and two days later found babies in my tank. They are about half and half glofish to reg danios. I was told that the zebra danios of this type of mateing would not be able to produce glofish if they bred. Now I breed shelties and if you have a puppy from a bi colored dog that is not bi colored, it will be bi factored and can produce bi colored puppies if bred to the right dog. Wouldn't that be the same here? If say two of my zebra danios bred, why couldn't they produce gowfish if one of their parents was a glofish? It is in their background. > > Pam > > > > , you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra Danio; you will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not Zebra DNA) with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. > . > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32105	From: hank voss	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > There is a rumor going around that the the Sagitarians are "well rooted" in this group!! (Sorry I just could"nt resist). hANK > Hey now Jackie... > > Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to conquer the > world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) > > Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't recall > seeing any posts about either of these topics. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dreamsteeds > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for > lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning > and grammatical implications of *weg,* ... does anyone have any insight > into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see- through > snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. > > Jackie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@... <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual > text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there > were graphical emotes :-D > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > OK... what is *weg*? > > Wide-eyed grin? > > I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and > most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, > although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high > school. > > Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and > see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL > > And in German, it means "way". > http://www.dict. < http://www.dict.cc/german- english/auf+dem+Weg.html > <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> > > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but > then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking > German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... > WAY!") LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > We just let you believe that *weg* > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! > > Hank > =========================================== > > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@ > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, Jackie > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks > that > > > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a > while. > > > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > > > > articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of > gravel > > > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into > planted > > > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > >articles > referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess > that > > > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I > was > > > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- > -- > > > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:31:23 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:58:47 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32106	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

Well, it wasn't "us" (human beings) who swung from trees, but our ancestors -- precessessor species which eventually developed into human beings -- IF you choose to follow our evolutionary path. But as you're bringing in Adam & Eve, 'nuff said -- I won't get into religion for reason recently discussed (off Group). Although, with throwing that curious question out as to whether Eve also ate that apple, I'm taking this whole scenario as tongue in cheek. Really don't know all that much about Dennis Rodman (so can't really comment) as I don't follow basketball that closely, although I certainly remember him as quite a player. I know he was a Forward for the Detroit Pistons before retiring, but he wasn't the tallest player in the NBA as he was "only" 6' 7". Then, there are the theories that aliens helped the Egyptians build the pyramids and helped the Inca's to build Machu-Pichu -- and then, there's that hugh bird-like carving on a plateu in the Andes that is said to have acted as a landing strip for alien spacecraft. And, oh yes, all these "crop-circles" are supposedly being made by aliens. I do hope they give those poor space mariners who crashed at Roswell a decent burial someday, unless that deceased crew has already been spirited away. As I understand what what into producing the Glo-Fish Danios, it seems that just the portion of DNA that controls bioluminescence was injected into the genome of Zebrafish -- if they could isolate it that well (as otherwise, we might might a Brachydanio zebra with tentacles -- LOL). But I do understand your questioning whether the injections of these genes were isolated only to the pigmentation cell genes, as I believe you to mean. Perhaps their innards are glowing as well <g>, we'll never know. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I mostly agree with you except for the "man developed from swinging in the > trees" part. Nothing I've ever read, other than various theories, suggests > that Adam & Eve ever swang from trees. ;-) Now, Eve did eat that darned > apple that we're all still paying for today... but that's a whole 'nother > subject! LOL > > And I noticed you didn't try to explain the Dennis Rodman question. You > know that aliens had to have implanted his genome with alien DNA. What > other explanation can there be? LOL > > I don't know enough about genetics and DNA manipulation to know if the > scientists who were injecting the jellyfish and marine fish DNA into the > zebra danio embryo were able to do it in a manner where it was only into > ONLY their pigmentation cells or into their entire DNA sequencing. I know, > at least I've read, that with humans, they are able to inspect, alter, > inject, etc., just the part of the DNA affecting a certain aspect of the > human embryo but I'm sure what was being done on fish was less explicit than > what is done with human embryo. > > That's probably what happened to Dennis Rodman... the aliens just injected > the DNA into his entire genome rather than one isolated part. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > Lenny, You seem to be "conveniently missing" (or temporarily > forgetting) a MAJOR point in all of this, unless you didn't fully understand > how these fish were developed when we had the extensive discussion on these > fish back in March of this year, which included discussion by Alan Blake et > al. But I'm fairly convinced you have grasped the concept, at least back > then, when you referred to these Glo-Fish as "Genetic Mutants" in your post > # 26687 (3/18/08) -- 1st sentence, 4th paragraph. > > Yes, the DNA controlling bioluminenescence was injected from another species > (a marine Jellyfish -- Aequorea victoria, from Puget Sound), and yes, this > DNA controls the pigmentation of the Zebrafish's chloroplast (color) cells > -- but this Jellyfish DNA is not merely injected into the fish's > pigmentation (chloroplast/color) cells, it is injected into and added on to > the fish's genome; these fish are genetically altered. As you stated back in > March, this fish is a GENETIC mutant, and you were close as at least you > realize that the genetics of this fish have changed (but not through > mutation), by being genetically modified; there is a difference. > > This Coding DNA (as opposed to non-Coding DNA) from the Jellyfish becomes > part of the genome make-up of the Zebrafish. Genome (or "Gamete") = The full > set of chromosomes of an organism, and includes both the Genes (Coding > sequences of DNA) and non-Coding sequences of DNA. The genetic make- up of > these Glo-Fish have been permanently altered, so that when they breed, the > Jellyfish's DNA is passed along within the eggs and milt of these fish as > part of their increased (added to) chromosome make-up. > > Now, lets take that human with a pig's heart transplant. Why should that > make him a human-pig hybrid? There has been no exchange or addition of DNA > in this man's genome -- and without his gene's receiving DNA/Chromosomes > from the pig, he cannot pass on any pig DNA > (genes) on to his children, as you too point out. But the point here is > there is a vast difference between adding another animal's physical parts > (heart valves, hearts, etc.) and another animal's chromosomes (DNA) directly > into a recipient's genome/chromosome make- up where breeding would pass this > along perpetually without further interferance or promotion. > > In the wild, as you know -- its only the survival of the fittest. A > man-developed/engineered (line-bred) mutated Goldfish obviously will not > survive very long. On the other hand, if a mutation appears in the wild that > is even better suited to the survival of a fish than its present complement > of genes suits it (which these present genes HAS served it WELL to have > evolved up to this point), this mutation (better genes) will out- perform its > present genes and slowly overshadow its present genes, advancing this fish > to enable it to better survive its environment. This is how man developed > from swinging in the trees to walking on the Savanah, with increasingly > better genes developed through subsequent mutations. Ray > > P.S.: Even such mutations as the recessive Albino appear from time to time > in the wild, in fish populations (and Bison, and Elephants, and Reptiles, > etc.), but as they do not promote the advancement of the survival of the > species, those individuals are soon eliminated as they stand out like a sore > thumb to their predators. > > --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > You must have not watched the X-Files. How do you know we haven't > been > > injected with advanced alien DNA? How do you explain Dennis > Rodman? LOL > > > > But yes, I do agree with your analogy that GloFish technically are > > "mongrels" of a sort due to the injected DNA from another species > but the > > DNA was simply into their pigmentation cells rather than something > that was > > going to result in a hybridized fish. For example... > > > > What about a human who gets some kind of life-saving surgery where > they use > > a pig's heart valve transplant to save a life.. or even a heart > transplant. > > Does that make them a human-pig hybrid? If that person was to have > > children, would their children be human-pig hybrids? I don't think > so... > > well, not unless they come out with funny snouts, roll around in > mud puddles > > and start oinking. LOL > > > > As far as the "fancy" goldfish, etc., in the wild, a mutated fish > is far > > more likely to be naturally culled from the population (aka eaten) > before it > > ever has a chance to procreate... although I'm sure there are > exceptions. > > Only due to man's interference and saving these mutant goldfish to > breed > > with other mutant goldfish for the sole purpose of creating a new > strain of > > mutant goldfish, do these fish have much of a chance to survive.... > and now > > be sold as "fancy" goldfish. I have a couple that I bought before I > > realized what was done to "create" these mutants.. lol.. but that > doesn't > > mean I agree with what was done. These man-made goldfish have much > shorter > > life spans and far more health issues than God-made "normal" > goldfish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:50 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > As I see it, Glofish are mongrels in the sense that they are the > product of > > two different species. While they are not a hybridized fish, > resulting from > > the breeding of two different species (the Zebra Danio was not bred > with the > > Jellyfish), with the addition of Jellyfish DNA they are no longer > 100% Zebra > > Danio -- as is obvious by their appearance (they will forever be > part > > Jellyfish, as long as man procreates them). If you wish to continue > the fish > > known as Brachydanio zebra as it appears in its naturally evolved > form as a > > species, you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra > Danio; you > > will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not Zebra > DNA) > > with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. > > > > Neither, are these mutant fish, as mutated fish are the result of > the > > mutation (change) of given species' genes -- not the addition of > another > > species' DNA by man -- it is a result of INHERITED characteristics > from that > > particular species' two parents (of the same species). > > > > Fancy Goldfish, other long-finned variants of other species and > differing > > body types, coloration, etc., of some species are the result of > inbreeding > > these species to "fix" these mutations (the individual species' gene > > changes) to develop a "strain" from these sports. But these fish > are not > > injected with DNA from an entirely different species, as has been > done by > > man with Glofish. These mutant fish which are developed by taking > advantage > > of a species changed/mutated genes (not being injected with > another's DNA) > > and being inbred by man are still 100% the same species. > > > > This process is an ongoing one in the wild, called evolution, when > mutations > > appear in a species' gene pool which are better suited to survive > and take > > better advantage of its environment than does its present gene > complement. > > It is the process whereby we got here through the eons -- and we > were not > > injected with another species' > > DNA, but by mutating. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > No, GloFish are not mongrels, just genetically enhanced Zebra > > Danio's. > > > Genetically, they are still 100% Zebra Danio's... but several > > generations > > > ago (ZD generations, not ours), some mad scientist types.. lol.. > > injected > > > some ZD eggs with various glowing DNA from Jellyfish, other marine > > fish, > > > etc., to cause the babies to be born with the day-glo coloring. > > They are > > > not hybridized fish like the Parrot Cichlids. Same with Fancy > > Goldfish, > > > long-finned variants of other fish, etc., and their morphed body > > types and > > > features... it was all done with inbreeding of mutant fish from > > their > > > species to other mutant fish from their species so genetically, > > they're > > > still 100% genetically pure... at least I think so. > > > > > > I guess it would be comparable to a mad scientist type taking a > > human embryo > > > and altering it's genetics so that it would be born and have > bright > > purple > > > or green hair. It's still human... it will just have to spend more > > on > > > Clairol products or learn how to fight and/or defend itself in > > school. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of bubuci@ > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:21 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > Peaches, > > > My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch > > them chase > > > each other, but no aggression. > > > > > > Hope this helps :) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Tania > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@ <mailto:Iluvdoves%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never > > aggressive. I > > > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > > > > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You > > might want > > > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > > > > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > > > > > Hope this Helps Some, > > > Peaches > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steve Szabo > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is > > another fish > > > that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, but > > you will > > > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the > hybrid > > parrot, > > > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is > > another > > > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This > > may be a > > > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though > > it has > > > been available for better than 12 hours. > > > > > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not > > even > > > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal > bias > > against > > > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. > > Trying to > > > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for > > both, or > > > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many > > cichlids are > > > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even > > if you > > > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is > > gone, all > > > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the > filter > > siphon > > > tube, never to return. > > > > > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate > > before > > > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a > friend > > of mine > > > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a > couple > > of > > > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when > > he came > > > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass > > tank top > > > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and > > he thinks > > > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know > > exactly > > > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to > > the party > > > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area > > that would > > > like a couple of pacu?] > > > > > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to > raise > > the fry, > > > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large > > would you > > > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for > a > > mongrel > > > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? > > Truth be > > > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising > the > > young to > > > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of > > your > > > expense. > > > > > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid > > fish. > > > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned > > zebra > > > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or > > otherwise > > > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood > > parrot ciclid, > > > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from > > dark orange > > > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive > > so i > > > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other > > forums that > > > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife > > fish. shes > > > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 3:56:58 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32107	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn

::groan::  talk about water chestnuts.... fish, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "hank voss" <aatetras@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:42:15 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > There is a rumor going around that the the Sagitarians are "well rooted" in this group!! (Sorry I just could"nt resist). hANK > Hey now Jackie... > > Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to conquer the > world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) > > Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't recall > seeing any posts about either of these topics. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of Dreamsteeds > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for > lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning > and grammatical implications of *weg,* ... does anyone have any insight > into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see- through > snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. > > Jackie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@... <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual > text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there > were graphical emotes :-D > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > OK... what is *weg*? > > Wide-eyed grin? > > I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and > most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, > although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high > school. > > Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and > see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL > > And in German, it means "way". > http://www.dict. < http://www.dict.cc/german- english/auf+dem+Weg.html > < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html > > > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but > then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking > German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... > WAY!") LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > We just let you believe that *weg* > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! > > Hank > =========================================== > > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@ > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, Jackie > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks > that > > > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a > while. > > > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > > > > articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of > gravel > > > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into > planted > > > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < 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http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > blogspot.com > >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > >articles > referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess > that > > > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I > was > > > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- > -- > > > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast.com > < http://www.avast.com > > com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:31:23 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 12:58:47 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32108	From: Peaches	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Sorry for the Typos in my post yesterday and today:)

I apologize for my spelling mistakes folks. My sound card has passed away and now my text to speech program will not work. I wonder if Lenny's smoke detector did that to my sound card:) (Evil peachy grin). I gots an idea!!!!!!! (Look out!!!!! Da Peach is trying to use her one brain cell that is about to die of loneliness). Lets make Glo Blood Parrot fish and Shelties!!!!!! We could sell them as Mars transplants!!! OOOOHHHHH!!!! Since I raise doves we could make them glow too. Where can we get enough Jellyfish though. Now my brain cell is overloading. I am looking into getting a new tank for myself and the funny thing is I was looking into Bosemani Rainbows and Dojo Loaches as possibilities. Then everyone started talking about them.:) I like large or bright fish because I have a chance to see them. My BP Gizmo is a pet. he waits for me to get up in the morning and hand feed him. I guess you could say that I am the only person on my street that can fish in my living room:) Anyway, Sorry for the typos guys. Hugs, Peaches [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32109	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

I'm not talking about his height, B-ball abilities, etc... I'm talking about his alien-like tendencies, although those B-ball abilities certainly could have been affected by the likely alien abduction of his mother and the injection of alien DNA into his embryo. LOL Here's proof! - http://askville.amazon.com/alien-Dennis-Rodman/AnswerDetails.do?requestId=74 38683 <http://askville.amazon.com/alien-Dennis-Rodman/AnswerDetails.do?requestId=7 438683&responseId=7439488> &responseId=7439488 Even the TV show, "Third Rock" did an episode with Rodman as an alien. LOL http://www.faqs.org/faqs/tv/program-guides/3rd-rock/season2/ - SNIP - "... The three bump into Dennis Rodman, an alien from their planet..." I thought everyone who watched enough TV knew about the allegations (jestfully) accusing Rodman of being an alien from another planet. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate Well, it wasn't "us" (human beings) who swung from trees, but our ancestors -- precessessor species which eventually developed into human beings -- IF you choose to follow our evolutionary path. But as you're bringing in Adam & Eve, 'nuff said -- I won't get into religion for reason recently discussed (off Group). Although, with throwing that curious question out as to whether Eve also ate that apple, I'm taking this whole scenario as tongue in cheek. Really don't know all that much about Dennis Rodman (so can't really comment) as I don't follow basketball that closely, although I certainly remember him as quite a player. I know he was a Forward for the Detroit Pistons before retiring, but he wasn't the tallest player in the NBA as he was "only" 6' 7". Then, there are the theories that aliens helped the Egyptians build the pyramids and helped the Inca's to build Machu-Pichu -- and then, there's that hugh bird-like carving on a plateu in the Andes that is said to have acted as a landing strip for alien spacecraft. And, oh yes, all these "crop-circles" are supposedly being made by aliens. I do hope they give those poor space mariners who crashed at Roswell a decent burial someday, unless that deceased crew has already been spirited away. As I understand what what into producing the Glo-Fish Danios, it seems that just the portion of DNA that controls bioluminescence was injected into the genome of Zebrafish -- if they could isolate it that well (as otherwise, we might might a Brachydanio zebra with tentacles -- LOL). But I do understand your questioning whether the injections of these genes were isolated only to the pigmentation cell genes, as I believe you to mean. Perhaps their innards are glowing as well <g>, we'll never know. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I mostly agree with you except for the "man developed from swinging in the > trees" part. Nothing I've ever read, other than various theories, suggests > that Adam & Eve ever swang from trees. ;-) Now, Eve did eat that darned > apple that we're all still paying for today... but that's a whole 'nother > subject! LOL > > And I noticed you didn't try to explain the Dennis Rodman question. You > know that aliens had to have implanted his genome with alien DNA. What > other explanation can there be? LOL > > I don't know enough about genetics and DNA manipulation to know if the > scientists who were injecting the jellyfish and marine fish DNA into the > zebra danio embryo were able to do it in a manner where it was only into > ONLY their pigmentation cells or into their entire DNA sequencing. I know, > at least I've read, that with humans, they are able to inspect, alter, > inject, etc., just the part of the DNA affecting a certain aspect of the > human embryo but I'm sure what was being done on fish was less explicit than > what is done with human embryo. > > That's probably what happened to Dennis Rodman... the aliens just injected > the DNA into his entire genome rather than one isolated part. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > Lenny, You seem to be "conveniently missing" (or temporarily > forgetting) a MAJOR point in all of this, unless you didn't fully understand > how these fish were developed when we had the extensive discussion on these > fish back in March of this year, which included discussion by Alan Blake et > al. But I'm fairly convinced you have grasped the concept, at least back > then, when you referred to these Glo-Fish as "Genetic Mutants" in your post > # 26687 (3/18/08) -- 1st sentence, 4th paragraph. > > Yes, the DNA controlling bioluminenescence was injected from another species > (a marine Jellyfish -- Aequorea victoria, from Puget Sound), and yes, this > DNA controls the pigmentation of the Zebrafish's chloroplast (color) cells > -- but this Jellyfish DNA is not merely injected into the fish's > pigmentation (chloroplast/color) cells, it is injected into and added on to > the fish's genome; these fish are genetically altered. As you stated back in > March, this fish is a GENETIC mutant, and you were close as at least you > realize that the genetics of this fish have changed (but not through > mutation), by being genetically modified; there is a difference. > > This Coding DNA (as opposed to non-Coding DNA) from the Jellyfish becomes > part of the genome make-up of the Zebrafish. Genome (or "Gamete") = The full > set of chromosomes of an organism, and includes both the Genes (Coding > sequences of DNA) and non-Coding sequences of DNA. The genetic make- up of > these Glo-Fish have been permanently altered, so that when they breed, the > Jellyfish's DNA is passed along within the eggs and milt of these fish as > part of their increased (added to) chromosome make-up. > > Now, lets take that human with a pig's heart transplant. Why should that > make him a human-pig hybrid? There has been no exchange or addition of DNA > in this man's genome -- and without his gene's receiving DNA/Chromosomes > from the pig, he cannot pass on any pig DNA > (genes) on to his children, as you too point out. But the point here is > there is a vast difference between adding another animal's physical parts > (heart valves, hearts, etc.) and another animal's chromosomes (DNA) directly > into a recipient's genome/chromosome make- up where breeding would pass this > along perpetually without further interferance or promotion. > > In the wild, as you know -- its only the survival of the fittest. A > man-developed/engineered (line-bred) mutated Goldfish obviously will not > survive very long. On the other hand, if a mutation appears in the wild that > is even better suited to the survival of a fish than its present complement > of genes suits it (which these present genes HAS served it WELL to have > evolved up to this point), this mutation (better genes) will out- perform its > present genes and slowly overshadow its present genes, advancing this fish > to enable it to better survive its environment. This is how man developed > from swinging in the trees to walking on the Savanah, with increasingly > better genes developed through subsequent mutations. Ray > > P.S.: Even such mutations as the recessive Albino appear from time to time > in the wild, in fish populations (and Bison, and Elephants, and Reptiles, > etc.), but as they do not promote the advancement of the survival of the > species, those individuals are soon eliminated as they stand out like a sore > thumb to their predators. > > --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > You must have not watched the X-Files. How do you know we haven't > been > > injected with advanced alien DNA? How do you explain Dennis > Rodman? LOL > > > > But yes, I do agree with your analogy that GloFish technically are > > "mongrels" of a sort due to the injected DNA from another species > but the > > DNA was simply into their pigmentation cells rather than something > that was > > going to result in a hybridized fish. For example... > > > > What about a human who gets some kind of life-saving surgery where > they use > > a pig's heart valve transplant to save a life.. or even a heart > transplant. > > Does that make them a human-pig hybrid? If that person was to have > > children, would their children be human-pig hybrids? I don't think > so... > > well, not unless they come out with funny snouts, roll around in > mud puddles > > and start oinking. LOL > > > > As far as the "fancy" goldfish, etc., in the wild, a mutated fish > is far > > more likely to be naturally culled from the population (aka eaten) > before it > > ever has a chance to procreate... although I'm sure there are > exceptions. > > Only due to man's interference and saving these mutant goldfish to > breed > > with other mutant goldfish for the sole purpose of creating a new > strain of > > mutant goldfish, do these fish have much of a chance to survive.... > and now > > be sold as "fancy" goldfish. I have a couple that I bought before I > > realized what was done to "create" these mutants.. lol.. but that > doesn't > > mean I agree with what was done. These man-made goldfish have much > shorter > > life spans and far more health issues than God-made "normal" > goldfish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:50 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > As I see it, Glofish are mongrels in the sense that they are the > product of > > two different species. While they are not a hybridized fish, > resulting from > > the breeding of two different species (the Zebra Danio was not bred > with the > > Jellyfish), with the addition of Jellyfish DNA they are no longer > 100% Zebra > > Danio -- as is obvious by their appearance (they will forever be > part > > Jellyfish, as long as man procreates them). If you wish to continue > the fish > > known as Brachydanio zebra as it appears in its naturally evolved > form as a > > species, you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra > Danio; you > > will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not Zebra > DNA) > > with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. > > > > Neither, are these mutant fish, as mutated fish are the result of > the > > mutation (change) of given species' genes -- not the addition of > another > > species' DNA by man -- it is a result of INHERITED characteristics > from that > > particular species' two parents (of the same species). > > > > Fancy Goldfish, other long-finned variants of other species and > differing > > body types, coloration, etc., of some species are the result of > inbreeding > > these species to "fix" these mutations (the individual species' gene > > changes) to develop a "strain" from these sports. But these fish > are not > > injected with DNA from an entirely different species, as has been > done by > > man with Glofish. These mutant fish which are developed by taking > advantage > > of a species changed/mutated genes (not being injected with > another's DNA) > > and being inbred by man are still 100% the same species. > > > > This process is an ongoing one in the wild, called evolution, when > mutations > > appear in a species' gene pool which are better suited to survive > and take > > better advantage of its environment than does its present gene > complement. > > It is the process whereby we got here through the eons -- and we > were not > > injected with another species' > > DNA, but by mutating. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > No, GloFish are not mongrels, just genetically enhanced Zebra > > Danio's. > > > Genetically, they are still 100% Zebra Danio's... but several > > generations > > > ago (ZD generations, not ours), some mad scientist types.. lol.. > > injected > > > some ZD eggs with various glowing DNA from Jellyfish, other marine > > fish, > > > etc., to cause the babies to be born with the day-glo coloring. > > They are > > > not hybridized fish like the Parrot Cichlids. Same with Fancy > > Goldfish, > > > long-finned variants of other fish, etc., and their morphed body > > types and > > > features... it was all done with inbreeding of mutant fish from > > their > > > species to other mutant fish from their species so genetically, > > they're > > > still 100% genetically pure... at least I think so. > > > > > > I guess it would be comparable to a mad scientist type taking a > > human embryo > > > and altering it's genetics so that it would be born and have > bright > > purple > > > or green hair. It's still human... it will just have to spend more > > on > > > Clairol products or learn how to fight and/or defend itself in > > school. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of bubuci@ > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:21 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > Peaches, > > > My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch > > them chase > > > each other, but no aggression. > > > > > > Hope this helps :) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Tania > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@ <mailto:Iluvdoves%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never > > aggressive. I > > > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > > > > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You > > might want > > > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > > > > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > > > > > Hope this Helps Some, > > > Peaches > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steve Szabo > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is > > another fish > > > that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, but > > you will > > > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the > hybrid > > parrot, > > > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is > > another > > > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This > > may be a > > > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though > > it has > > > been available for better than 12 hours. > > > > > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not > > even > > > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal > bias > > against > > > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. > > Trying to > > > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for > > both, or > > > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many > > cichlids are > > > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even > > if you > > > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is > > gone, all > > > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the > filter > > siphon > > > tube, never to return. > > > > > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate > > before > > > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a > friend > > of mine > > > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a > couple > > of > > > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when > > he came > > > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass > > tank top > > > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and > > he thinks > > > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know > > exactly > > > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to > > the party > > > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area > > that would > > > like a couple of pacu?] > > > > > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to > raise > > the fry, > > > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large > > would you > > > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for > a > > mongrel > > > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? > > Truth be > > > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising > the > > young to > > > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of > > your > > > expense. > > > > > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid > > fish. > > > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned > > zebra > > > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or > > otherwise > > > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood > > parrot ciclid, > > > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from > > dark orange > > > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive > > so i > > > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other > > forums that > > > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife > > fish. shes > > > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 3:56:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:06:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:23:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32110	From: Margie	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Hi all from KY

Hi All, I am back, well, sort of. I am on my lap top. Our apt is not totally finished and until it is, I will be on it. but after the big box emptying I'll be back in full swing. My fish tank is still in my Explorer and will stay there till we have made room for it. I have thought about what to get this time and what not to get ....... for sure, NO KOI. My husband still wants a Common and I want Orandas. So 4 Orandas and 1 Common. I saw some really nice ones at Wal-Mart, but my DIL says there is a local fish store and I will check it out. It maybe later though, right now we have to get our selves organized. But I am back and reading your e-mails. TTYL Margie in KY http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>: -------------- > That sounds like just about the right amount of fish to me, unless your tank > is brand new, in which case you're supposed to start with one to three fish > adn build up gradually. > > I have 25 small fish in a 20 gallon tank, and they're thriving, but I do > work alot harder at keeping the tank clean than if I really wanted to look > at a tank with only a fwe fish in it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jjmiltner" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:26 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess > > > I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. > 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy > at the pet store didn't know about that. > I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I > took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 > teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one time > at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is 20ppm and > No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. > I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't > fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going > to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my rocks)What > kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? > Thanks > Jennie > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32111	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn

OK... now I gotta ask. The "Sagitarian" reference I kinda got since the thread was about the Zodiac, although I didn't get the "well rooted" part since Sagittarians' are the half-man, half-goat Centaur character with the bow and arrows. I had to double-check with a Google search since I thought maybe Sagittarius was about a plant. LOL But now, the "water chestnut" comment has me even more confused. It's still a little early in the season to be bringing up chestnuts (roasting on an open fire). LOL As Ricci Ricardo would say... Jackie and Hank... you got some 'splainin to do! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) ::groan:: talk about water chestnuts.... fish, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "hank voss" <aatetras@... <mailto:aatetras%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:42:15 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > There is a rumor going around that the the Sagitarians are "well rooted" in this group!! (Sorry I just could"nt resist). hANK > Hey now Jackie... > > Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to conquer the > world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) > > Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't recall > seeing any posts about either of these topics. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Dreamsteeds > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for > lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning > and grammatical implications of *weg,* ... does anyone have any insight > into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see- through > snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. > > Jackie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@... <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual > text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there > were graphical emotes :-D > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > OK... what is *weg*? > > Wide-eyed grin? > > I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and > most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, > although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high > school. > > Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and > see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL > > And in German, it means "way". > http://www.dict. < http://www.dict.cc/german- > <http://www.dict.cc/german-> english/auf+dem+Weg.html > < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html > <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> > > > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but > then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking > German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... > WAY!") LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > We just let you believe that *weg* > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! > > Hank > =========================================== > > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@ > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, Jackie > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks > that > > > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a > while. > > > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > > > articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of > gravel > > > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into > planted > > > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny. > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > >articles > referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess > that > > > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I > was > > > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- > -- > > > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 12:31:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 12:58:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:16:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:36:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32112	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Hi all from KY

You know you would need a really BIG tank for four Orandas... and it's not always a good thing to mix long-bodied and round-bodied goldfish since the round-bodied can't compete for food and second reason... heaven forbid the Common is a male and only one of the Orandas is a female. He would harass her to death when nature calls (mating season). Even female commons have been known to be harassed to death by an overzealous male common in a large pond where the female might have room to get away on occasion. This ability to hide would be less likely in a tank that would not likely be the size of a pond... since you said it's sitting in your Explorer... unless Explorer is a new brand of 18-wheeler. ;-) It would be like putting your cousin, Michael, in a kiddie pool. ;-) (Hint - Phelps) LOL Round bodied goldfish need at least 25-30 gallons per fish and even that is a bare minimum and would require frequent tank maintenance. Long bodied goldfish need much more room due to their faster and longer distance swimming abilities.... in comparison to cousin Michael again. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi all from KY Hi All, I am back, well, sort of. I am on my lap top. Our apt is not totally finished and until it is, I will be on it. but after the big box emptying I'll be back in full swing. My fish tank is still in my Explorer and will stay there till we have made room for it. I have thought about what to get this time and what not to get ....... for sure, NO KOI. My husband still wants a Common and I want Orandas. So 4 Orandas and 1 Common. I saw some really nice ones at Wal-Mart, but my DIL says there is a local fish store and I will check it out. It maybe later though, right now we have to get our selves organized. But I am back and reading your e-mails. TTYL Margie in KY http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >: -------------- > That sounds like just about the right amount of fish to me, unless > your tank is brand new, in which case you're supposed to start with > one to three fish adn build up gradually. > > I have 25 small fish in a 20 gallon tank, and they're thriving, but I > do work alot harder at keeping the tank clean than if I really wanted > to look at a tank with only a fwe fish in it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jjmiltner" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:26 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess > > > I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. > 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy > at the pet store didn't know about that. > I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I > took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 > teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one > time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is > 20ppm and > No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. > I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't > fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going > to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my > rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? > Thanks > Jennie > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:28:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:45:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32113	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn

I also assumed the Sagittarius's comment referred to the aquarium plant and the water chestnut remark was alluding to the corny (aquatic) joke aspect of it all.  Gads, how embarrassing to have to explain my joke...  and here I thought I was pretty cool.  ;) Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " < GoldLenny @ gmail .com> To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:36:58 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) OK... now I gotta ask. The " Sagitarian " reference I kinda got since the thread was about the Zodiac, although I didn't get the "well rooted" part since Sagittarians' are the half-man, half-goat Centaur character with the bow and arrows. I had to double-check with a Google search since I thought maybe Sagittarius was about a plant. LOL But now, the "water chestnut" comment has me even more confused. It's still a little early in the season to be bringing up chestnuts (roasting on an open fire). LOL As Ricci Ricardo would say... Jackie and Hank... you got some 'splainin to do! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com [ mailto : AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) ::groan:: talk about water chestnuts.... fish, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "hank voss " < aatetras @... < mailto : aatetras %40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:42:15 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [ AquaticLife ] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) --- In AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " < GoldLenny @...> wrote: > There is a rumor going around that the the Sagitarians are "well rooted" in this group!! (Sorry I just could" nt resist). hANK > Hey now Jackie... > > Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to conquer the > world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) > > Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't recall > seeing any posts about either of these topics. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> [ mailto : AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Dreamsteeds > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for > lith ium , alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning > and grammatical implications of * weg ,* ... does anyone have any insight > into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see- through > snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. > > Jackie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@... < mailto :woad%40witchnet.org> > > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual > text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there > were graphical emotes :-D > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > OK... what is * weg *? > > Wide-eyed grin? > > I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and > most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, > although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high > school. > > Ahhh ... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and > see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL > > And in German, it means "way". > http :// www .dict. < http :// www .dict.cc/german- > < http :// www .dict.cc/german- > english/ auf + dem + Weg . html > < http :// www .dict.cc/german-english/ auf + dem + Weg . html > < http :// www .dict.cc/german-english/ auf + dem + Weg . html > > > > cc/german-english/ auf + dem + Weg . html Not sure why I don't remember that... but > then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking > German in high school... " Nein weg ... WEG !!!" ("No way... > WAY!") LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com] > On Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > We just let you believe that * weg * > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > --- In AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " > < GoldLenny @> wrote: > > > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! > > Hank > =========================================== > > Ooops .. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com] > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz @ > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > > Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny @ > > < mailto : GoldLenny %40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Today, AquaticLife .... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons , 2 orange lazer corys and one > > > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort , and have > > > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, Jackie > > > > --- In AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks > that > > > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a > while. > > > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife @: GoldLenny @: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > > > 0500Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > > > had Scorpiotendencies . Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > > > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com> > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > (Links to > > > > articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife @ > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > OnBehalf Of bubuci @: Tuesday, > > > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo : AquaticLife @: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Re: > > > > FW Sand SubstatesLol , ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > > > itspretty bad sometimes lol !Cheers, TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " > > > > < GoldLenny @< mailto : GoldLenny %40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > > > 09:39:11To: < AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > > > was born on thecusp , I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of > gravel > > > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into > planted > > > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > > > > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com> > > > > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com > >< http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > >< http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > > (Links to > >articles > referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife @ > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife % > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci @ < mailto : bubuci % > > > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo : > > > > AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife % > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesLenny ! LOL ! I'm a libra ! What can I say, that's a typical > > > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess > that > > > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I > was > > > > thinking about the blackagain !Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol ! > > > > Cheers, TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- > -- > > > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " < GoldLenny @< mailto : GoldLenny % > > > > 40gmail.com>< mailto : GoldLenny %40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > > > 16:41:48To: < AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus < http :// www .avast. < http :// www .avast.com > < http :// www .avast.com > < http :// www .avast.com < http :// www .avast.com > > > > com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database ( VPS ): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > _____ _ _____ _ _____ _ _____ _ _____ _ __ > > > avast! Antivirus < http :// www .avast.com < http :// www .avast.com > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database ( VPS ): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 12:31:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32114	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn

Ahhh.. I didn't even know there was a Sagittarius plant... is that what the Sags and Dwarf Sags are? I've never seen them referred to anything except as just Sags or Dwarf Sags. Ahhh.. I do see the latin name is Satittaria subulata http://plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=189 I never paid much attention to the latin names on plant profiles as compared to the fish. Now that I understand the Sagittarians reference, I have to ask why are water chestnuts included in this "corny"? That reference kind of aMAIZEs me. Now beat that for corniness. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) I also assumed the Sagittarius's comment referred to the aquarium plant and the water chestnut remark was alluding to the corny (aquatic) joke aspect of it all. Gads, how embarrassing to have to explain my joke... and here I thought I was pretty cool. ;) Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " < GoldLenny @ gmail .com> To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:36:58 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) OK... now I gotta ask. The " Sagitarian " reference I kinda got since the thread was about the Zodiac, although I didn't get the "well rooted" part since Sagittarians' are the half-man, half-goat Centaur character with the bow and arrows. I had to double-check with a Google search since I thought maybe Sagittarius was about a plant. LOL But now, the "water chestnut" comment has me even more confused. It's still a little early in the season to be bringing up chestnuts (roasting on an open fire). LOL As Ricci Ricardo would say... Jackie and Hank... you got some 'splainin to do! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com [ mailto : AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) ::groan:: talk about water chestnuts.... fish, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "hank voss " < aatetras @... < mailto : aatetras %40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:42:15 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [ AquaticLife ] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) --- In AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " < GoldLenny @...> wrote: > There is a rumor going around that the the Sagitarians are "well rooted" in this group!! (Sorry I just could" nt resist). hANK > Hey now Jackie... > > Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to conquer the > world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) > > Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't recall > seeing any posts about either of these topics. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> [ mailto : AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Dreamsteeds > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for > lith ium , alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning > and grammatical implications of * weg ,* ... does anyone have any insight > into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see- through > snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. > > Jackie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@... < mailto :woad%40witchnet.org> > > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual > text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there > were graphical emotes :-D > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > OK... what is * weg *? > > Wide-eyed grin? > > I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and > most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, > although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high > school. > > Ahhh ... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and > see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL > > And in German, it means "way". > http :// www .dict. < http :// www .dict.cc/german- < http :// www > .dict.cc/german- > english/ auf + dem + Weg . html > < http :// www .dict.cc/german-english/ auf + dem + Weg . html < http > :// www .dict.cc/german-english/ auf + dem + Weg . html > > > > cc/german-english/ auf + dem + Weg . html Not sure why I don't > remember that... but > then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking > German in high school... " Nein weg ... WEG !!!" ("No way... > WAY!") LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com (Links > to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com] > On Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > We just let you believe that * weg * > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < > mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > --- In AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " > < GoldLenny @> wrote: > > > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! > > Hank > =========================================== > > Ooops .. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com] > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz @ > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > > Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny @ < mailto : GoldLenny > > %40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Today, AquaticLife .... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons , 2 orange lazer corys and one > > > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort , and have > > > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, Jackie > > > > --- In AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks > that > > > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a > while. > > > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife @: GoldLenny @: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > > > 0500Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > > > had Scorpiotendencies . Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > > > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com> > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > (Links to > > > > articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife @ > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > OnBehalf Of bubuci @: Tuesday, > > > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo : AquaticLife @: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Re: > > > > FW Sand SubstatesLol , ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > > > itspretty bad sometimes lol !Cheers, TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " > > > > < GoldLenny @< mailto : GoldLenny %40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct > > 2008 > > > > 09:39:11To: < AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife > > %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > > > was born on thecusp , I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of > gravel > > > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into > planted > > > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > > > > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com> > > > > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > >< http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > >:// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > > (Links to > >articles > referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife @ > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife % > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci @ < mailto : bubuci % > > > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo : > > > > AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife % > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesLenny ! LOL ! I'm a libra ! What can I say, that's a > > typical > > > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess > that > > > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I > was > > > > thinking about the blackagain !Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol ! > > > > Cheers, TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- > -- > > > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " < GoldLenny @< mailto : GoldLenny % > > > > 40gmail.com>< mailto : GoldLenny %40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct > > 2008 > > > > 16:41:48To: < AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife > > %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus < http :// www .avast. < http :// www .avast.com < > http :// www .avast.com > < http :// www .avast.com < http :// www > .avast.com > > > > com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database ( VPS ): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > _____ _ _____ _ _____ _ _____ _ _____ _ __ > > > avast! Antivirus < http :// www .avast.com < http :// www .avast.com > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database ( VPS ): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 12:31:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! 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Virus Database ( VPS ): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:36:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __ ._,_. __ _ Messages in this topic ( 66 ) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ` . .><(((( >. ` . . ` . ><(((( > . ` . . , . ` ..><(((( > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- < ((((><. ` . . ` . < ((((>< . ` . . , . ` ..< ((((>< ` . . We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. MARKETPLACE From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32115	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

I work for a living, Lenny. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora.. this is your fifth time asking and my third time replying to you. How can you NOT find the time to do your own research, yet you can repeatedly post replies asking others to do the research for you? YOU COULD HAVE READ EVERY FRIGGIN' HIT ON GOOGLE WITH ALL THE TIME YOU'VE WASTED ASKING OTHERS TO DO IT FOR YOU. QUIT QUESTIONING WHAT I'VE TOLD YOU AND GO BACK AND LOOK AT MY ORIGINAL POST AND QUIT CALLING THEM JUST DANIOS... I SPECIFICALLY SAID "ZEBRA DANIOS" AND I POSTED THE PAGE THAT HAD THEM AND THEN I'VE SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU EXACTLY WHERE TO LOOK ON THAT PAGE AND SPECIFICALLY WHERE TO LOOK ON A COUPLE OF OTHER REPLIES SINCE THAT ORIGINAL POST. Now, scroll down in this email to my original post. Look at the link. Scroll down the alphabetized list to the Z's in the Fish Section and there you will find "Zebra Danio". TaDAAA... a miracle! God, it's so simple. No research involved... just follow the simple directions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Lenny, I do not have time for researching right now. You're teh one claiming danios are an invasive species; you should eb able to point us to the information. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. 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Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:20:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32116	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32117	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Couldn't possibly. I have too much help. Are you all trying to set a record for the most e-mails on one subject that purports to contain information and doesn't? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Dora Are you trying to set a record for the most e-mails on one subject. John in Nevada --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 10:57 AM Well, to be sure, now, they can't be expected to find invisible fish! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Interesting. .. the NAS.ER.USGS. GOV site doesn't have ZD's listed in Louisiana yet the Gulf States site does have them listed for Louisiana. Typical US government.. . the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and we have to pay for it all. No government program would be able to keep their job if the program was in the private sector.. or if they did, at least I wouldn't be forced to support the waste. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. com Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Couple more and I found this. http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? SpeciesID= 505 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? SpeciesID= 505> -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 9:51 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12% 3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r= <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/ <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ , <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ ,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/ <http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars- at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> <http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. 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Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:31:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32118	From: Alina	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Platy is sick?

I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda like it's lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much and not eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems normal. Alina (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32119	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: zebra danio information

From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS:"http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS: Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdom%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26search_credRating%3DAll"163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php%3Fgss_id%3D21"Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@...> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber="http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@...> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/"http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32120	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through sn

Well,  "chestnut" is an old term for a corny joke (I threw water in there to be cute) and if I could think of any more corn words, I would SO pun you right back! Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:08:13 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) Ahhh.. I didn't even know there was a Sagittarius plant... is that what the Sags and Dwarf Sags are? I've never seen them referred to anything except as just Sags or Dwarf Sags. Ahhh.. I do see the latin name is Satittaria subulata http://plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=189 I never paid much attention to the latin names on plant profiles as compared to the fish. Now that I understand the Sagittarians reference, I have to ask why are water chestnuts included in this "corny"? That reference kind of aMAIZEs me. Now beat that for corniness. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) I also assumed the Sagittarius's comment referred to the aquarium plant and the water chestnut remark was alluding to the corny (aquatic) joke aspect of it all. Gads, how embarrassing to have to explain my joke... and here I thought I was pretty cool. ;) Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " < GoldLenny @ gmail .com> To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:36:58 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) OK... now I gotta ask. The " Sagitarian " reference I kinda got since the thread was about the Zodiac, although I didn't get the "well rooted" part since Sagittarians' are the half-man, half-goat Centaur character with the bow and arrows. I had to double-check with a Google search since I thought maybe Sagittarius was about a plant. LOL But now, the "water chestnut" comment has me even more confused. It's still a little early in the season to be bringing up chestnuts (roasting on an open fire). LOL As Ricci Ricardo would say... Jackie and Hank... you got some 'splainin to do! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com [ mailto : AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) ::groan:: talk about water chestnuts.... fish, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "hank voss " < aatetras @... < mailto : aatetras %40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:42:15 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [ AquaticLife ] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) --- In AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " < GoldLenny @...> wrote: > There is a rumor going around that the the Sagitarians are "well rooted" in this group!! (Sorry I just could" nt resist). hANK > Hey now Jackie... > > Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to conquer the > world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) > > Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't recall > seeing any posts about either of these topics. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> [ mailto : AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Dreamsteeds > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for > lith ium , alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning > and grammatical implications of * weg ,* ... does anyone have any insight > into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see- through > snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. > > Jackie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@... < mailto :woad%40witchnet.org> > > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual > text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there > were graphical emotes :-D > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife @ yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > OK... what is * weg *? > > Wide-eyed grin? > > I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and > most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, > although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high > school. > > Ahhh ... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and > see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL > > And in German, it means "way". > http :// www .dict. < http :// www .dict.cc/german- < http :// www > .dict.cc/german- > english/ auf + dem + Weg . html > < http :// www .dict.cc/german-english/ auf + dem + Weg . html < http > :// www .dict.cc/german-english/ auf + dem + Weg . html > > > > cc/german-english/ auf + dem + Weg . html Not sure why I don't > remember that... but > then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking > German in high school... " Nein weg ... WEG !!!" ("No way... > WAY!") LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com (Links > to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com] > On Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > We just let you believe that * weg * > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < > mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [ AquaticLife ] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > --- In AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " > < GoldLenny @> wrote: > > > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! > > Hank > =========================================== > > Ooops .. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com] > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz @ > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > > Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny @ < mailto : GoldLenny > > %40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Today, AquaticLife .... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [ AquaticLife ] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons , 2 orange lazer corys and one > > > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort , and have > > > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, Jackie > > > > --- In AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks > that > > > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a > while. > > > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife @: GoldLenny @: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > > > 0500Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > > > had Scorpiotendencies . Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > > > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com> > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > (Links to > > > > articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife @ > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > OnBehalf Of bubuci @: Tuesday, > > > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo : AquaticLife @: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Re: > > > > FW Sand SubstatesLol , ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > > > itspretty bad sometimes lol !Cheers, TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " > > > > < GoldLenny @< mailto : GoldLenny %40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct > > 2008 > > > > 09:39:11To: < AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife > > %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> < mailto : AquaticLife % > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [ AquaticLife ] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > > > was born on thecusp , I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of > gravel > > > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into > planted > > > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > > > > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com> > > > > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > > :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < > http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . > blogspot .com > > > blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// > GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > < > http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > > blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com > >< http :// GoldLenny . < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http > >:// GoldLenny . blogspot .com > > < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot .com < http :// GoldLenny . blogspot > .com > > > blogspot .com> > blogspot .com> > > > (Links to > >articles > referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife @ > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [ mailto : AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com < mailto : AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife % > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of bubuci @ < mailto : bubuci % > > > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo : > > > > AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups .com > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife %40yahoogroups.com> > > > > < mailto : AquaticLife % > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [ AquaticLife ] Re: FW Sand > > > > SubstatesLenny ! LOL ! I'm a libra ! What can I say, that's a > > typical > > > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess > that > > > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I > was > > > > thinking about the blackagain !Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol ! > > > > Cheers, TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- > -- > > > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny " < GoldLenny @< mailto : GoldLenny % > > > > 40gmail.com>< mailto : GoldLenny %40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct > > 2008 > > > > 16:41:48To: < AquaticLife @ < mailto : AquaticLife > > %40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups .com > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus < http :// www .avast. < http :// www .avast.com < > http :// www .avast.com > < http :// www .avast.com < http :// www > .avast.com > > > > com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database ( VPS ): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > _____ _ _____ _ _____ _ _____ _ _____ _ __ > > > avast! Antivirus < http :// www .avast.com < http :// www .avast.com > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database ( VPS ): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 12:31:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! 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Virus Database ( VPS ): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:36:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __ ._,_. __ _ Messages in this topic ( 66 ) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ` . .><(((( >. ` . . ` . ><(((( > . ` . . , . ` ..><(((( > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- < ((((><. ` . . ` . < ((((>< . ` . . , . ` ..< ((((>< ` . . We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. MARKETPLACE From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32121	From: Alina	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?

Addendum: I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, I bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for everything. Worth a try? I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing at me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my tools.:-) Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda like it's > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much and not > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems normal. > > Alina > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32122	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS:"http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS: Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdom%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26search_credRating%3DAll"163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php%3Fgss_id%3D21"Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@...> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber="http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@...> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/"http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32123	From: Amy Howell	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Reply to Bruce?

He is still at the LFS waiting for a home.  I have contacted our local paper.  I got an email from someone who lives in Fort Bragg area and thinks he knows of someone and another who thinks they know of soemone in teh Bay area.  So just keep spreading the word.  I know someone will step up soon.  Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32124	From: henry puryear	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

IMHO, the real threat to our own native animals is not the humble zebra danio. Doubt that species could NOT survive for long in most of the waters in this country. The real threat to our native species if the invasion of the illegal Mexican wildlife that crosses the borders in large schools daily. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <HYPERLINK "mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net"henrypuryear@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS:"http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS:"HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS:"http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS: Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdom%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26search_credRating%3DAll"http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdom%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26search_credRating%3DAll"163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php%3Fgss_id%3D21"http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php%3Fgss_id%3D21"Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@...> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber="http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber="HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber="http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@...> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/"http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/"HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/"http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32125	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: My Mystery Fish

just figured i would try you guys first see if anyone might just off hand recognize this little guy. I thought when i first got him i was getting a german blue ram, but it turns out he isn't, at least i dont see how he could be hes got no color like the other does. http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2580/mysteryfishfh2.jpg Let me know what you guys think if you have any ideas. thanks! --Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32126	From: Jennie	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?

Hi, I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't tryed salt for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. Jennie   --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: From: Alina <alambiet@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM Addendum: I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, I bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for everything. Worth a try? I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing at me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my tools.:-) Alina --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@.. .> wrote: > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda like it's > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much and not > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems normal. > > Alina > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32127	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Kribensis chiclids

They should be fine but in order to have more peace in the tank, I would add more danios and more rainbows, just a matter of personal choice. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "friendtoallfish" <pearlysmith2000@...> wrote: > > Thank you for the reply. Since they are aggressive to fish over > territories having 2 female and 2 males in the 55 with the other fish > would that work? Or better to have 1 male and a few females or just > one of each. Thanks > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" > <va22_vyshys@> wrote: > > > > Simple answer is yes, kribensis will fit in just fine. They are > only > > aggressive to fish that like to stake out territories, and since > the > > fish that you have are open water swimmers that prefer the top and > > middle areas of the tank they will be just fine. They may even > serve as > > dither fish to bring the kribs out of hiding. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "friendtoallfish" > > <pearlysmith2000@> wrote: > > > > > > I have a 55 gallon with 1 danio, 4 austrailian rainbowfish and 2 > > > bristlenose plecos. I am interested in some sort of chiclid that > > stays > > > small and is not over aggerssive. Would Kribnesis work? If not > what > > > would? Thanks > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32128	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

Be careful or the Scorpios are going to have to speak up. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning and grammatical implications of *weg,* ... does anyone have any insight into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see-through snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> org> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. < http://www.dict. <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32129	From: Alina	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?

Hi Jenny, Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially careful because I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank into another tank. Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jennie <jjmiltner@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't tryed salt for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > Jennie >   > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: > > From: Alina <alambiet@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, I > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for > everything. Worth a try? > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing at > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > tools.:-) > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda like > it's > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much and > not > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems > normal. > > > > Alina > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32130	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they’re also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren’t any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32131	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

Bring 'em on! We'll scale 'em... and then fry 'em up in some Zatarain's Fish Fry. How do you like that use of "scale" tying the Libra's weigh "scales" to the "scaling" of a fish. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... Be careful or the Scorpios are going to have to speak up. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's fondness for lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual meaning and grammatical implications of *weg,* ... does anyone have any insight into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see-through snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> org> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. < http://www.dict. <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> > > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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> < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 8:40:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 9:05:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32132	From: Lisa	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Sad zebra danio loss

One of my favorates, a large (Not giant) zebra danio died last night. I don't know why. But it was all pasty white in colour, the only indicationn of species being the barring colours in it's tail and pectoral fins. The rest of the body had gone white. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32133	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: tank size upgrade

ok so i started with a 20 gallon, once i got it cycled and established i used some gravel and water from it to start a 10 gallon tank and then a 29 gallon tank, which only took about a week or two to get those cycled. i now have bought a 55 gal tank, i put in new graveland a few new decorations, but then i took all the water, gravel and decor from the established 20 gallon and put it in the 50 gallon, then over the net day i slowly added fresh water a few gallons at a time until the tank was full, it has been running about a week now, the fish are doing well, ammonia and nitrites are 0ppm and my nitrates are about 7.5 ppm and ph is 8.2, let me now mention it is an african cichlid tank. i was told that the tank will show a spike in ammonia since i added so much new water, but i have been keeping a close eye on it and nothing so far, where my other seeded tanks had a early spike. so should i still expect to see a spike? or does it look like my bio filter stood up to the move and is still doing it's job properly? how long should i wait to add more fish? and any other info i might need to know would be helpful, thanks for your help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32134	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Um, I was not looking for them as an invasive species. I was pointing out to you that information could be had with a few clicks of the mouse, and I also work for a living. -Mike If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 5:11 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32135	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Nope, we are just trying to help someone with a learning disability. -Mike Couldn't possibly. I have too much help. Are you all trying to set a record for the most e-mails on one subject that purports to contain information and doesn't? Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 5:12 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Couldn't possibly. I have too much help. Are you all trying to set a record for the most e-mails on one subject that purports to contain information and doesn't? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Dora Are you trying to set a record for the most e-mails on one subject. John in Nevada --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 10:57 AM Well, to be sure, now, they can't be expected to find invisible fish! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Interesting. .. the NAS.ER.USGS. GOV site doesn't have ZD's listed in Louisiana yet the Gulf States site does have them listed for Louisiana. Typical US government.. . the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and we have to pay for it all. No government program would be able to keep their job if the program was in the private sector.. or if they did, at least I wouldn't be forced to support the waste. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. com Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Couple more and I found this. http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? SpeciesID= 505 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? SpeciesID= 505> -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 9:51 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12% 3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r= <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/ <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ , <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ ,> led to this page on just "Fishes" http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/ <http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars- at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> <http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:29:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. 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Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:31:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?

Oh yeah.. and fish do have lips. Haven't you ever done the fish lips kiss before? LOL Check out the other pictures on that FishPalace site as your issue could be something other than Columnaris. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy is sick? I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda like it's lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much and not eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems normal. Alina (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 6:47:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 9:20:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32137	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?

Alina, Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a fungus but is actually bacterial. Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this site - http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee Or the direct link to Columnaris is - http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don't have a TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fish disease, went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, so the site lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pages from the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) so you will always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the WayBack Archives slow server speeds. Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes" sections: Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to: Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult to treat because it attacks intracellularly. Other Notes - Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish especially susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by Dr. Barb. Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that causes human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with suspect animals. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? Hi Jenny, Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially careful because I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank into another tank. Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Jennie <jjmiltner@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't tryed salt for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > Jennie > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: > > From: Alina <alambiet@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, I > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for > everything. Worth a try? > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing at > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > tools.:-) > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda like > it's > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much and > not > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems > normal. > > > > Alina > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32138	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

But Lenny, she works. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 6:54 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they’re also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren’t any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32139	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: ick problem

ok i am really putting out some posts, so i noticed some white specs about a week ago in my 10 and 29 gallon tanks, i am hoping that it was from temp problems i was having, the heaters i bought were a piece of crap because they did not keep the temps high enough or consistantly at a single temp. i have now fixed my temp issues and i have been treating the ick since i noticed it, i am now on my 7th day of treatment and i lost two fish early on in my 10 gallon because they got it really bad, most of my fich that were infected have cleared up except a few little spots on one fish and two fish that are almost completely covered, if these fish stay in the tank could the others become infected? can these fish be cured since it seems like they have only gotten worse? what should i do to help them and prevent my other fish from getting infected, i do not have a tank to move them to, the best i have is a plastic floating isolation chamber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32140	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

How do you explain Dennis Rodman? Brother from Another Planet. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087004/ Does that make them a human-pig hybrid? It makes them Porcine-Americans! <GGG> Ray probably has a point, since it is unlikely that there would be a mutation that would have the same or a similar effect. They probably would not have made it into the hobby, except that someone saw the potential market for a "glow in the dark" type of fish. True, it is not truly glow in the dark, you need to use a UV light, I believe, to bring out the color. Whether they were able to do what they were designed for--the detection of miniscule amounts of a specific pollutant, or group of pollutants, I do not know, but they may say on their site. If people wish to buy the fish, I do not have any real complaint, but, I do know I would be hard pressed to judge these fish at a show. I would probably talk with the show committee and conference with the other judges at the show to make a determination how to judge the fish fairly, since color is usually a high pointed category. Those who know me as a judge know that I am nothing if not fair in my judgments of the fish I do judge. Fortunately, I do not normally judge cichlids, so I would leave the headaches of judging a parrot cichlid to someone else. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate You must have not watched the X-Files. How do you know we haven't been injected with advanced alien DNA? How do you explain Dennis Rodman? LOL But yes, I do agree with your analogy that GloFish technically are "mongrels" of a sort due to the injected DNA from another species but the DNA was simply into their pigmentation cells rather than something that was going to result in a hybridized fish. For example... What about a human who gets some kind of life-saving surgery where they use a pig's heart valve transplant to save a life.. or even a heart transplant. Does that make them a human-pig hybrid? If that person was to have children, would their children be human-pig hybrids? I don't think so... well, not unless they come out with funny snouts, roll around in mud puddles and start oinking. LOL As far as the "fancy" goldfish, etc., in the wild, a mutated fish is far more likely to be naturally culled from the population (aka eaten) before it ever has a chance to procreate... although I'm sure there are exceptions. Only due to man's interference and saving these mutant goldfish to breed with other mutant goldfish for the sole purpose of creating a new strain of mutant goldfish, do these fish have much of a chance to survive.... and now be sold as "fancy" goldfish. I have a couple that I bought before I realized what was done to "create" these mutants.. lol.. but that doesn't mean I agree with what was done. These man-made goldfish have much shorter life spans and far more health issues than God-made "normal" goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate As I see it, Glofish are mongrels in the sense that they are the product of two different species. While they are not a hybridized fish, resulting from the breeding of two different species (the Zebra Danio was not bred with the Jellyfish), with the addition of Jellyfish DNA they are no longer 100% Zebra Danio -- as is obvious by their appearance (they will forever be part Jellyfish, as long as man procreates them). If you wish to continue the fish known as Brachydanio zebra as it appears in its naturally evolved form as a species, you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra Danio; you will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not Zebra DNA) with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. Neither, are these mutant fish, as mutated fish are the result of the mutation (change) of given species' genes -- not the addition of another species' DNA by man -- it is a result of INHERITED characteristics from that particular species' two parents (of the same species). Fancy Goldfish, other long-finned variants of other species and differing body types, coloration, etc., of some species are the result of inbreeding these species to "fix" these mutations (the individual species' gene changes) to develop a "strain" from these sports. But these fish are not injected with DNA from an entirely different species, as has been done by man with Glofish. These mutant fish which are developed by taking advantage of a species changed/mutated genes (not being injected with another's DNA) and being inbred by man are still 100% the same species. This process is an ongoing one in the wild, called evolution, when mutations appear in a species' gene pool which are better suited to survive and take better advantage of its environment than does its present gene complement. It is the process whereby we got here through the eons -- and we were not injected with another species' DNA, but by mutating. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > No, GloFish are not mongrels, just genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. > Genetically, they are still 100% Zebra Danio's... but several generations > ago (ZD generations, not ours), some mad scientist types.. lol.. injected > some ZD eggs with various glowing DNA from Jellyfish, other marine fish, > etc., to cause the babies to be born with the day-glo coloring. They are > not hybridized fish like the Parrot Cichlids. Same with Fancy Goldfish, > long-finned variants of other fish, etc., and their morphed body types and > features... it was all done with inbreeding of mutant fish from their > species to other mutant fish from their species so genetically, they're > still 100% genetically pure... at least I think so. > > I guess it would be comparable to a mad scientist type taking a human embryo > and altering it's genetics so that it would be born and have bright purple > or green hair. It's still human... it will just have to spend more on > Clairol products or learn how to fight and/or defend itself in school. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bubuci@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > Peaches, > My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch them chase > each other, but no aggression. > > Hope this helps :) > > Cheers, > Tania > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@... <mailto:Iluvdoves%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never aggressive. I > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. You might want > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > Hope this Helps Some, > Peaches > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is another fish > that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, but you will > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the hybrid parrot, > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is another > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. This may be a > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, though it has > been available for better than 12 hours. > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, not even > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal bias against > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive fish. Trying to > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, for both, or > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many cichlids are > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. Even if you > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is gone, all > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the filter siphon > tube, never to return. > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate before > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a friend of mine > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a couple of > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, when he came > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the glass tank top > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, and he thinks > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know exactly > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited to the party > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC area that would > like a couple of pacu?] > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to raise the fry, > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How large would you > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market for a mongrel > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that size? Truth be > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising the young to > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of your > expense. > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid fish. > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long finned zebra > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or otherwise > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood parrot ciclid, > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from dark orange > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very aggressive so i > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other forums that > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife fish. shes > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32141	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Stock Level

Goldfish need about 30 gallons of water per fish as adults. There are some other things to consider as well in determining how many fish can fit into how much water. But, in order for the young ones to develop properly, and have a good chance to live out full lives (they may even out live you). I hope you are testing your water on a regular basis, and can give us the readings from your tests for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. pH is not of any real concern, except to determine the toxicity of the ammonia to your fish. You should also be doing a partial water change every few days to help keep the excretions of the fish in check, including the hormones and pheromones that are produced by the fish that can adversely affect the fish. The reason that betas can be kept in small containers is that they are labyrinth fish, and can utilize atmospheric oxygen. They really should be given a larger home for maximum fin development and better overall health. The aggressive behavior of the bettas is conspecific--in other words, they are aggressive only to others of their species. The general rule is one betta per tank. As always, with a rule, there are exceptions. Larger aquaria, where more than one territory can be staked out will, perhaps, allow you to keep more than one male in the tank, Males raised together from birth are, at least, les aggressive to each other, so long as they are kept together. Once they are split up, they will not tolerate each other any longer. It is entirely possible to keep a betta in a community situation, so long s the needs of all species are similar. If you have fin nippers, a betta will suffer. If you have aggressive fish, the betas will suffer, etc. I do not know of a pleco that will eat a live betta. However, if the betta dies, the pleco may be all over him. Often, a situation like this leads to stories of how my (insert name of a peaceful and/or vegetarian fish here) eats other fish. After all, everything was fine the day before, or, at least, so it seemed. So, if your community tank can meet the needs of the betta, let him into the neighborhood, but be ready to remove him if he is not doing well in the tank for whatever reason. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stock Level Hi all, I recently got advice that I should not have 5 goldfish in a 30 gallon. I have had no pH issues, I plan on moving them or finding them new homes when they get too large in about a year (maybe they will be ok for good, for longer, for less, but I wont keep them in a tank they cant swim in), they have more than enough room - they look fine, its not like it looks as if they dont have enough room, they are happy and healthy and very active. I also have a happy healthy betta and pleco with them. Why would I see bettas in large tanks with all kinds of fish at every pet store - from the small privately owned family ones, to the big chains - if bettas would die from that?? I also was told that bettas should not be kept it regular tanks and not with other fish, and all kinds of other things that made them sound so high maintenance I thought we were talking about 2 different fish. I was even told my pleco will eat my betta! Now I wanted to run this all by you all because I consider you guys the experts, and being new, I hear lots of advice but not all sits well with me because it doesnt fit common sense wise with what I see daily going on in both my tanks. I mean, my water is crystal clear, and my fish all look and act like they are thriving. I had some questions because my betta for a few days was trying to hide (hes fine now), shared this with a betta yahoo group, and that is what prompted this. SO - what do you all think?? Does anyone else out there have an issue with people who tell you bettas are "happy" in a tank the size of a wine glass with no filtration, plants, ect?? Mine have a who eco system and plenty of room and clean water, but I was told to move them into those nasty betta "cups" and that - heaven forbid! - one was in with goldfish!! I only did this because I saw the same thing in hundreds of tanks at hundreds of aquarium shops and everyone I asked said it should be just fine - no issues yet, so I would assume its all good! What do you all think?? Thanks for your help in advance. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32142	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Stock Level

Hey Bill, Thank you so much! Like I said, the best advice seems to come from this group! I will keep you posted :) Blessings Dr. Katie Craft --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi Katie! >   > I'm not even close to being an expert BUT, I've kept a lot of different fish > over the years and am just returning to the hobby. >   > I have learned to approach all this simply.  Are the fish in the tank doing well? > Is there fighting or picking among them?  And lastly, the point I consider the > most important, do these fish have enough room to grow? >   > If the answer is "yes" to these questions then leave them alone, do your PWC's fed them well, and enjoy them!  They are obviously enjoying you! >   > Experts give varying degree's advice (you can't do this-----don't put this one with that one) BUT -----------------these are animals we are talking about, not humans.  Many animal types exhibit many forms of acceptance among themselves.  Dogs and cats are excellent examples.  With fish it's a bit easier.  If they are all healthy and happy with no torn fins or sores and no picking or fighting and above all else, eating well.  Let them be and enjoy. >   > IMHO,  bill >   >   > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Dr. Katie Craft <mom2angeldog@...> wrote: > > From: Dr. Katie Craft <mom2angeldog@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stock Level > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 11:18 AM > > > > > > > Hi all, > I recently got advice that I should not have 5 goldfish in a 30 > gallon. I have had no pH issues, I plan on moving them or finding > them new homes when they get too large in about a year (maybe they > will be ok for good, for longer, for less, but I wont keep them in a > tank they cant swim in), they have more than enough room - they look > fine, its not like it looks as if they dont have enough room, they > are happy and healthy and very active. I also have a happy healthy > betta and pleco with them. Why would I see bettas in large tanks with > all kinds of fish at every pet store - from the small privately owned > family ones, to the big chains - if bettas would die from that?? I > also was told that bettas should not be kept it regular tanks and not > with other fish, and all kinds of other things that made them sound > so high maintenance I thought we were talking about 2 different fish. > I was even told my pleco will eat my betta! Now I wanted to run this > all by you all because I consider you guys the experts, and being > new, I hear lots of advice but not all sits well with me because it > doesnt fit common sense wise with what I see daily going on in both > my tanks. I mean, my water is crystal clear, and my fish all look and > act like they are thriving. I had some questions because my betta for > a few days was trying to hide (hes fine now), shared this with a > betta yahoo group, and that is what prompted this. SO - what do you > all think?? Does anyone else out there have an issue with people who > tell you bettas are "happy" in a tank the size of a wine glass with > no filtration, plants, ect?? Mine have a who eco system and plenty of > room and clean water, but I was told to move them into those nasty > betta "cups" and that - heaven forbid! - one was in with goldfish!! I > only did this because I saw the same thing in hundreds of tanks at > hundreds of aquarium shops and everyone I asked said it should be > just fine - no issues yet, so I would assume its all good! What do > you all think?? Thanks for your help in advance. > Blessings > Dr. Katie Craft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32143	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

Hey guys Thank you all for your reply, I also just wanted to clarify that it was the response on a Betta group that had me questioning the advice there, and so I brought my questions to you all. I read my post again and I just wanted to clarify, you guys are the experts in my book! BUT - what they heck is up with all these posts about Zebra Danios from Dora???!!! Enough already! Sorry girl but it just strikes me as really odd you that you seem to have so much invested in this going- no-where-fast old and done with discussion from like 2 days ago or more, even though you try to convince us you have better things to do. Its starting to drive me crazy! If I see one more post about the "missing fish/Zebra Danios" thread I think I'm going to scream! Is anyone else feeling me on this one or is it just me??? ;P Blessings Dr. Katie Craft --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I work for a living, Lenny. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:20 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > Dora.. this is your fifth time asking and my third time replying to you. > How can you NOT find the time to do your own research, yet you can > repeatedly post replies asking others to do the research for you? YOU COULD > HAVE READ EVERY FRIGGIN' HIT ON GOOGLE WITH ALL THE TIME YOU'VE WASTED > ASKING OTHERS TO DO IT FOR YOU. > > QUIT QUESTIONING WHAT I'VE TOLD YOU AND GO BACK AND LOOK AT MY ORIGINAL POST > AND QUIT CALLING THEM JUST DANIOS... I SPECIFICALLY SAID "ZEBRA DANIOS" AND > I POSTED THE PAGE THAT HAD THEM AND THEN I'VE SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU EXACTLY > WHERE TO LOOK ON THAT PAGE AND SPECIFICALLY WHERE TO LOOK ON A COUPLE OF > OTHER REPLIES SINCE THAT ORIGINAL POST. > > Now, scroll down in this email to my original post. Look at the link. > Scroll down the alphabetized list to the Z's in the Fish Section and there > you will find "Zebra Danio". TaDAAA... a miracle! > > God, it's so simple. No research involved... just follow the simple > directions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Lenny, I do not have time for researching right now. You're teh one claiming > danios are an invasive species; you should eb able to point us to the > information. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:25 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I > have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your > fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed > it out in my first reply. Read it again! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that > doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, > trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this > week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time > to research this. > > Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not > too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual > information. > > If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry > about at the moment. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully > inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Danios aren't listed either. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single > Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito > control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, > particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native > to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen > Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your > area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. > > You'll see them listed on this page... > http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. > http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" > http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than > others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our > waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with > Mother Nature!" > > Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the > southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, > according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely > released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but > I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have > been found in other local waters in southern States. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first > I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish > you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, > and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's > frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? > That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition > to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive > species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods > affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, > it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would > compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:07:48 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:25:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:49:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:20:37 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32144	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: ick problem

Its important to know the stages of icks life cycle to help treat it. when the white spots are on the fish then, they will burst into eggs, which will fall into the gravel, then the eggs hatch and then the larva attach to the fish and create white spots and the whole thing starts again. ICH can only be killed easilly when in larva form, and this is where most treatments get the ich. they tell you to raise the temp of the tank to 85? i think it is because this increases the speed at which the ich bug goes through its phases, and will clear it up faster. you basically need all your white spots to go away on your fish and then allow for a few days to pass to hopfully kill the larva. I personally use Aquasol for my treatment of ich. I saved both my clown loaches from it and most of my other fish. I find it to be nearly a cureall type medication that is suitible for even clown loaches as they can be hard to medicate and keep alive as they can react poorly to medications. Ive used aquasol for a small case of fin rot also. What medication have you been using? The other guys will probably want to know that. --Dave On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Courtland Jacob <courtland_jacob@... > wrote: > ok i am really putting out some posts, so i noticed some white specs > about a week ago in my 10 and 29 gallon tanks, i am hoping that it was > from temp problems i was having, the heaters i bought were a piece of > crap because they did not keep the temps high enough or consistantly > at a single temp. i have now fixed my temp issues and i have been > treating the ick since i noticed it, i am now on my 7th day of > treatment and i lost two fish early on in my 10 gallon because they > got it really bad, most of my fich that were infected have cleared up > except a few little spots on one fish and two fish that are almost > completely covered, if these fish stay in the tank could the others > become infected? can these fish be cured since it seems like they have > only gotten worse? what should i do to help them and prevent my other > fish from getting infected, i do not have a tank to move them to, the > best i have is a plastic floating isolation chamber > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32145	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: ick problem

aquari-sol, like i said it has seemed to work on my 10 gallon, and all the infected fish in the 29 gallon except the two that seem to be getting worse --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > Its important to know the stages of icks life cycle to help treat it. when > the white spots are on the fish then, they will burst into eggs, which will > fall into the gravel, then the eggs hatch and then the larva attach to the > fish and create white spots and the whole thing starts again. ICH can only > be killed easilly when in larva form, and this is where most treatments get > the ich. they tell you to raise the temp of the tank to 85? i think it is > because this increases the speed at which the ich bug goes through its > phases, and will clear it up faster. you basically need all your white spots > to go away on your fish and then allow for a few days to pass to hopfully > kill the larva. I personally use Aquasol for my treatment of ich. I saved > both my clown loaches from it and most of my other fish. I find it to be > nearly a cureall type medication that is suitible for even clown loaches as > they can be hard to medicate and keep alive as they can react poorly to > medications. Ive used aquasol for a small case of fin rot also. > > What medication have you been using? The other guys will probably want to > know that. > > --Dave > > On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Courtland Jacob <courtland_jacob@... > > wrote: > > > ok i am really putting out some posts, so i noticed some white specs > > about a week ago in my 10 and 29 gallon tanks, i am hoping that it was > > from temp problems i was having, the heaters i bought were a piece of > > crap because they did not keep the temps high enough or consistantly > > at a single temp. i have now fixed my temp issues and i have been > > treating the ick since i noticed it, i am now on my 7th day of > > treatment and i lost two fish early on in my 10 gallon because they > > got it really bad, most of my fich that were infected have cleared up > > except a few little spots on one fish and two fish that are almost > > completely covered, if these fish stay in the tank could the others > > become infected? can these fish be cured since it seems like they have > > only gotten worse? what should i do to help them and prevent my other > > fish from getting infected, i do not have a tank to move them to, the > > best i have is a plastic floating isolation chamber > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32146	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: advice please?

ok so i started with a 20 gallon, once i got it cycled and established i used some gravel and water from it to start a 10 gallon tank and then a 29 gallon tank, which only took about a week or two to get those cycled. i now have bought a 55 gal tank, i put in new graveland a few new decorations, but then i took all the water, gravel and decor from the established 20 gallon and put it in the 50 gallon, then over the net day i slowly added fresh water a few gallons at a time until the tank was full, it has been running about a week now, the fish are doing well, ammonia and nitrites are 0ppm and my nitrates are about 7.5 ppm and ph is 8.2, let me now mention it is an african cichlid tank. i was told that the tank will show a spike in ammonia since i added so much new water, but i have been keeping a close eye on it and nothing so far, where my other seeded tanks had a early spike. so should i still expect to see a spike? or does it look like my bio filter stood up to the move and is still doing it's job properly? how long should i wait to add more fish? and any other info i might need to know would be helpful, thanks for your help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32147	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

Okay, I see what you mean. I just haven't been following the exploits of our resident alien star. Might be that programming around here just hasn't covered that much of him, as I haven't seen these alien references or "accusations" of Rodman. Then too, I don't regularly watch talk shows, but only tune them in in-between other stuff I may be watching. Now, if these jests are mostly made during B-ball games, I probably missed them as I only catch a game or two when I can. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not talking about his height, B-ball abilities, etc... I'm talking about > his alien-like tendencies, although those B-ball abilities certainly could > have been affected by the likely alien abduction of his mother and the > injection of alien DNA into his embryo. LOL Here's proof! - > http://askville.amazon.com/alien-Dennis-Rodman/AnswerDetails.do? requestId=74 > 38683 > <http://askville.amazon.com/alien-Dennis-Rodman/AnswerDetails.do? requestId=7 > 438683&responseId=7439488> &responseId=7439488 > > Even the TV show, "Third Rock" did an episode with Rodman as an alien. LOL > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/tv/program-guides/3rd-rock/season2/ - SNIP - "... > The three bump into Dennis Rodman, an alien from their planet..." > > I thought everyone who watched enough TV knew about the allegations > (jestfully) accusing Rodman of being an alien from another planet. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > Well, it wasn't "us" (human beings) who swung from trees, but our ancestors > -- precessessor species which eventually developed into human beings -- IF > you choose to follow our evolutionary path. But as you're bringing in Adam & > Eve, 'nuff said -- I won't get into religion for reason recently discussed > (off Group). Although, with throwing that curious question out as to whether > Eve also ate that apple, I'm taking this whole scenario as tongue in cheek. > > Really don't know all that much about Dennis Rodman (so can't really > comment) as I don't follow basketball that closely, although I certainly > remember him as quite a player. I know he was a Forward for the Detroit > Pistons before retiring, but he wasn't the tallest player in the NBA as he > was "only" 6' 7". > > Then, there are the theories that aliens helped the Egyptians build the > pyramids and helped the Inca's to build Machu-Pichu -- and then, there's > that hugh bird-like carving on a plateu in the Andes that is said to have > acted as a landing strip for alien spacecraft. And, oh yes, all these > "crop-circles" are supposedly being made by aliens. I do hope they give > those poor space mariners who crashed at Roswell a decent burial someday, > unless that deceased crew has already been spirited away. > > As I understand what what into producing the Glo-Fish Danios, it seems that > just the portion of DNA that controls bioluminescence was injected into the > genome of Zebrafish -- if they could isolate it that well (as otherwise, we > might might a Brachydanio zebra with tentacles -- LOL). But I do understand > your questioning whether the injections of these genes were isolated only to > the pigmentation cell genes, as I believe you to mean. Perhaps their innards > are glowing as well <g>, we'll never know. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I mostly agree with you except for the "man developed from swinging > in the > > trees" part. Nothing I've ever read, other than various theories, > suggests > > that Adam & Eve ever swang from trees. ;-) Now, Eve did eat that > darned > > apple that we're all still paying for today... but that's a > whole 'nother > > subject! LOL > > > > And I noticed you didn't try to explain the Dennis Rodman > question. You > > know that aliens had to have implanted his genome with alien DNA. > What > > other explanation can there be? LOL > > > > I don't know enough about genetics and DNA manipulation to know if > the > > scientists who were injecting the jellyfish and marine fish DNA > into the > > zebra danio embryo were able to do it in a manner where it was only > into > > ONLY their pigmentation cells or into their entire DNA sequencing. > I know, > > at least I've read, that with humans, they are able to inspect, > alter, > > inject, etc., just the part of the DNA affecting a certain aspect > of the > > human embryo but I'm sure what was being done on fish was less > explicit than > > what is done with human embryo. > > > > That's probably what happened to Dennis Rodman... the aliens just > injected > > the DNA into his entire genome rather than one isolated part. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > Lenny, You seem to be "conveniently missing" (or temporarily > > forgetting) a MAJOR point in all of this, unless you didn't fully > understand > > how these fish were developed when we had the extensive discussion > on these > > fish back in March of this year, which included discussion by Alan > Blake et > > al. But I'm fairly convinced you have grasped the concept, at least > back > > then, when you referred to these Glo-Fish as "Genetic Mutants" in > your post > > # 26687 (3/18/08) -- 1st sentence, 4th paragraph. > > > > Yes, the DNA controlling bioluminenescence was injected from > another species > > (a marine Jellyfish -- Aequorea victoria, from Puget Sound), and > yes, this > > DNA controls the pigmentation of the Zebrafish's chloroplast > (color) cells > > -- but this Jellyfish DNA is not merely injected into the fish's > > pigmentation (chloroplast/color) cells, it is injected into and > added on to > > the fish's genome; these fish are genetically altered. As you > stated back in > > March, this fish is a GENETIC mutant, and you were close as at > least you > > realize that the genetics of this fish have changed (but not through > > mutation), by being genetically modified; there is a difference. > > > > This Coding DNA (as opposed to non-Coding DNA) from the Jellyfish > becomes > > part of the genome make-up of the Zebrafish. Genome (or "Gamete") = > The full > > set of chromosomes of an organism, and includes both the Genes > (Coding > > sequences of DNA) and non-Coding sequences of DNA. The genetic make- > up of > > these Glo-Fish have been permanently altered, so that when they > breed, the > > Jellyfish's DNA is passed along within the eggs and milt of these > fish as > > part of their increased (added to) chromosome make-up. > > > > Now, lets take that human with a pig's heart transplant. Why should > that > > make him a human-pig hybrid? There has been no exchange or addition > of DNA > > in this man's genome -- and without his gene's receiving > DNA/Chromosomes > > from the pig, he cannot pass on any pig DNA > > (genes) on to his children, as you too point out. But the point > here is > > there is a vast difference between adding another animal's physical > parts > > (heart valves, hearts, etc.) and another animal's chromosomes (DNA) > directly > > into a recipient's genome/chromosome make- up where breeding would > pass this > > along perpetually without further interferance or promotion. > > > > In the wild, as you know -- its only the survival of the fittest. A > > man-developed/engineered (line-bred) mutated Goldfish obviously > will not > > survive very long. On the other hand, if a mutation appears in the > wild that > > is even better suited to the survival of a fish than its present > complement > > of genes suits it (which these present genes HAS served it WELL to > have > > evolved up to this point), this mutation (better genes) will out- > perform its > > present genes and slowly overshadow its present genes, advancing > this fish > > to enable it to better survive its environment. This is how man > developed > > from swinging in the trees to walking on the Savanah, with > increasingly > > better genes developed through subsequent mutations. Ray > > > > P.S.: Even such mutations as the recessive Albino appear from time > to time > > in the wild, in fish populations (and Bison, and Elephants, and > Reptiles, > > etc.), but as they do not promote the advancement of the survival > of the > > species, those individuals are soon eliminated as they stand out > like a sore > > thumb to their predators. > > > > --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > You must have not watched the X-Files. How do you know we haven't > > been > > > injected with advanced alien DNA? How do you explain Dennis > > Rodman? LOL > > > > > > But yes, I do agree with your analogy that GloFish technically are > > > "mongrels" of a sort due to the injected DNA from another species > > but the > > > DNA was simply into their pigmentation cells rather than something > > that was > > > going to result in a hybridized fish. For example... > > > > > > What about a human who gets some kind of life-saving surgery where > > they use > > > a pig's heart valve transplant to save a life.. or even a heart > > transplant. > > > Does that make them a human-pig hybrid? If that person was to have > > > children, would their children be human-pig hybrids? I don't think > > so... > > > well, not unless they come out with funny snouts, roll around in > > mud puddles > > > and start oinking. LOL > > > > > > As far as the "fancy" goldfish, etc., in the wild, a mutated fish > > is far > > > more likely to be naturally culled from the population (aka eaten) > > before it > > > ever has a chance to procreate... although I'm sure there are > > exceptions. > > > Only due to man's interference and saving these mutant goldfish to > > breed > > > with other mutant goldfish for the sole purpose of creating a new > > strain of > > > mutant goldfish, do these fish have much of a chance to > survive.... > > and now > > > be sold as "fancy" goldfish. I have a couple that I bought before > I > > > realized what was done to "create" these mutants.. lol.. but that > > doesn't > > > mean I agree with what was done. These man-made goldfish have much > > shorter > > > life spans and far more health issues than God-made "normal" > > goldfish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:50 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > As I see it, Glofish are mongrels in the sense that they are the > > product of > > > two different species. While they are not a hybridized fish, > > resulting from > > > the breeding of two different species (the Zebra Danio was not > bred > > with the > > > Jellyfish), with the addition of Jellyfish DNA they are no longer > > 100% Zebra > > > Danio -- as is obvious by their appearance (they will forever be > > part > > > Jellyfish, as long as man procreates them). If you wish to > continue > > the fish > > > known as Brachydanio zebra as it appears in its naturally evolved > > form as a > > > species, you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra > > Danio; you > > > will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not > Zebra > > DNA) > > > with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. > > > > > > Neither, are these mutant fish, as mutated fish are the result of > > the > > > mutation (change) of given species' genes -- not the addition of > > another > > > species' DNA by man -- it is a result of INHERITED characteristics > > from that > > > particular species' two parents (of the same species). > > > > > > Fancy Goldfish, other long-finned variants of other species and > > differing > > > body types, coloration, etc., of some species are the result of > > inbreeding > > > these species to "fix" these mutations (the individual species' > gene > > > changes) to develop a "strain" from these sports. But these fish > > are not > > > injected with DNA from an entirely different species, as has been > > done by > > > man with Glofish. These mutant fish which are developed by taking > > advantage > > > of a species changed/mutated genes (not being injected with > > another's DNA) > > > and being inbred by man are still 100% the same species. > > > > > > This process is an ongoing one in the wild, called evolution, when > > mutations > > > appear in a species' gene pool which are better suited to survive > > and take > > > better advantage of its environment than does its present gene > > complement. > > > It is the process whereby we got here through the eons -- and we > > were not > > > injected with another species' > > > DNA, but by mutating. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > No, GloFish are not mongrels, just genetically enhanced Zebra > > > Danio's. > > > > Genetically, they are still 100% Zebra Danio's... but several > > > generations > > > > ago (ZD generations, not ours), some mad scientist types.. lol.. > > > injected > > > > some ZD eggs with various glowing DNA from Jellyfish, other > marine > > > fish, > > > > etc., to cause the babies to be born with the day-glo coloring. > > > They are > > > > not hybridized fish like the Parrot Cichlids. Same with Fancy > > > Goldfish, > > > > long-finned variants of other fish, etc., and their morphed body > > > types and > > > > features... it was all done with inbreeding of mutant fish from > > > their > > > > species to other mutant fish from their species so genetically, > > > they're > > > > still 100% genetically pure... at least I think so. > > > > > > > > I guess it would be comparable to a mad scientist type taking a > > > human embryo > > > > and altering it's genetics so that it would be born and have > > bright > > > purple > > > > or green hair. It's still human... it will just have to spend > more > > > on > > > > Clairol products or learn how to fight and/or defend itself in > > > school. LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > above > > > > listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bubuci@ > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:21 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > Peaches, > > > > My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch > > > them chase > > > > each other, but no aggression. > > > > > > > > Hope this helps :) > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tania > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@ <mailto:Iluvdoves%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > > > > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never > > > aggressive. I > > > > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > > > > > > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. > You > > > might want > > > > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > > > > > > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > > > > > > > Hope this Helps Some, > > > > Peaches > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Steve Szabo > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > > > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is > > > another fish > > > > that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, > but > > > you will > > > > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the > > hybrid > > > parrot, > > > > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is > > > another > > > > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. > This > > > may be a > > > > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, > though > > > it has > > > > been available for better than 12 hours. > > > > > > > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, > not > > > even > > > > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal > > bias > > > against > > > > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive > fish. > > > Trying to > > > > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, > for > > > both, or > > > > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many > > > cichlids are > > > > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. > Even > > > if you > > > > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is > > > gone, all > > > > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the > > filter > > > siphon > > > > tube, never to return. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate > > > before > > > > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a > > friend > > > of mine > > > > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a > > couple > > > of > > > > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, > when > > > he came > > > > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the > glass > > > tank top > > > > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, > and > > > he thinks > > > > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know > > > exactly > > > > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited > to > > > the party > > > > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC > area > > > that would > > > > like a couple of pacu?] > > > > > > > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to > > raise > > > the fry, > > > > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How > large > > > would you > > > > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market > for > > a > > > mongrel > > > > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that > size? > > > Truth be > > > > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising > > the > > > young to > > > > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of > > > your > > > > expense. > > > > > > > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid > > > fish. > > > > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long > finned > > > zebra > > > > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or > > > otherwise > > > > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On Behalf Of greychildren > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood > > > parrot ciclid, > > > > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from > > > dark orange > > > > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very > aggressive > > > so i > > > > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other > > > forums that > > > > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife > > > fish. shes > > > > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 3:56:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:06:40 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:23:40 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32148	From: Lisa	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Tank size soon to be upgraded. Advice needed

Hi all. It has recently come to my attention that i will be able to get a new tank, (minimum size of 10 gal) Approx 35 Ltrs. And I wanted to put some guppies in. Now My question is. Can I have all males? And How many in a ten gal tank? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32149	From: hank voss	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on see-through snails

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Lennie: It was to relate to the aquarium plants Sagittaria like my previous statement Pisces / Aquarius was to our hobby. I got no more. Hank > OK... now I gotta ask. > > The "Sagitarian" reference I kinda got since the thread was about the > Zodiac, although I didn't get the "well rooted" part since Sagittarians' are > the half-man, half-goat Centaur character with the bow and arrows. I had to > double-check with a Google search since I thought maybe Sagittarius was > about a plant. LOL > > But now, the "water chestnut" comment has me even more confused. It's still > a little early in the season to be bringing up chestnuts (roasting on an > open fire). LOL > > As Ricci Ricardo would say... Jackie and Hank... you got some 'splainin to > do! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dreamsteeds > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on > see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) > > > > ::groan:: talk about water chestnuts.... > > fish, Jackie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "hank voss" <aatetras@... <mailto:aatetras%40yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:42:15 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [AquaticLife] Social Preferences of German Rams and theories on > see-through snails (was Re: another Libra and fish stuff....) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > There is a rumor going around that the the Sagitarians are "well rooted" in > this group!! (Sorry I just could"nt resist). > hANK > > > Hey now Jackie... > > > > Quit trying to hijack our thread on Libra's and our quest to > conquer the > > world. LOL (Just kidding of course... about the hijack) > > > > Did you actually ask about these items in this thread? I don't > recall > > seeing any posts about either of these topics. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > ] On > > Behalf Of Dreamsteeds > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > > > ahem...now that we have determined Libran superiority, Lenny's > fondness for > > lith ium, alcohol's contribution to the population AND the actual > meaning > > and grammatical implications of *weg,* ... does anyone have any > insight > > into the social preferences of German rams or theories about my see- > through > > snails. Or not...the other stuff is entertaining , too. > > > > Jackie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@ <mailto:woad%40witchnet.org> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:26:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than > actual > > text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote > before there > > were graphical emotes :-D > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > OK... what is *weg*? > > > > Wide-eyed grin? > > > > I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email > acronyms and > > most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German > language, > > although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German > back in high > > school. > > > > Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the > *) - and > > see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL > > > > And in German, it means "way". > > http://www.dict. < http://www.dict.cc/german- > > <http://www.dict.cc/german-> > english/auf+dem+Weg.html > > < http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html > > <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> > > > > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember > that... but > > then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was > taking > > German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... > > WAY!") LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > We just let you believe that *weg* > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com, > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! > > > > Hank > > =========================================== > > > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com (Links to articles > > > referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of Deenerz@ > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > > > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > > > > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > > > > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > > > > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > > > > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > > > > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and > when > > > > > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > > > > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > > > > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > > > > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't > seem > > > > > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > > > > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > > > > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail > problems. > > > > > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > > > > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look > kind > > > > > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > > > > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > > > > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > > > > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, Jackie > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > > > > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from > blue > > > > > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks > > that > > > > > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a > > while. > > > > > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. > Also > > > > > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would > think > > > > > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > > > > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > > > > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > > > > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > > > > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > > > > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > > > > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > > > > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > > > > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > > > > > http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > > http://GoldLenny. > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > > http://GoldLenny. > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > > > > > articles referenced above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > > > > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > > > > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, > but > > > > > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from > T- > > > > > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > > > > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > > > > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > > > > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > > > > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > > > > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > > > > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all > know > > > > > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > > > > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > > > > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are > also > > > > > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of > > gravel > > > > > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into > > planted > > > > > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > > > > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but > to > > > > > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > > > > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > > > > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > 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blogspot.com > > > < http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny. < > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com > > >< http://GoldLenny. < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > < http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > > >articles > > referenced above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > > > > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > > > > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > > > > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > > > > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > > > > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > > > > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess > > that > > > > > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I > > was > > > > > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! > Lol! > > > > > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original > Message-- > > -- > > > > > > -From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny% > > > > > > 40gmail.com><mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 > > > > > > 16:41:48To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast. < http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 10:38:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : > Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 12:31:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081028-1, 10/28/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 12:58:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:16:54 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:36:57 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32150	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My Mystery Fish

Dave, This is a Keyhole Cichlid -- its a nice peaceful Cichlid and gets around 3" long. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > just figured i would try you guys first see if anyone might just off hand > recognize this little guy. I thought when i first got him i was getting a > german blue ram, but it turns out he isn't, at least i dont see how he could > be hes got no color like the other does. > > http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2580/mysteryfishfh2.jpg > > Let me know what you guys think if you have any ideas. thanks! > > --Dave > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32151	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate

No... that's Dennis Rodman in real life. He cleans up for the games since his contract likely called for it, so it wouldn't bring such a spectacle to the games... although he did play a few games with various colors of hair.... and even multi-colored hair. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate Okay, I see what you mean. I just haven't been following the exploits of our resident alien star. Might be that programming around here just hasn't covered that much of him, as I haven't seen these alien references or "accusations" of Rodman. Then too, I don't regularly watch talk shows, but only tune them in in-between other stuff I may be watching. Now, if these jests are mostly made during B-ball games, I probably missed them as I only catch a game or two when I can. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not talking about his height, B-ball abilities, etc... I'm talking about > his alien-like tendencies, although those B-ball abilities certainly could > have been affected by the likely alien abduction of his mother and the > injection of alien DNA into his embryo. LOL Here's proof! - > http://askville.amazon.com/alien-Dennis-Rodman/AnswerDetails.do? > <http://askville.amazon.com/alien-Dennis-Rodman/AnswerDetails.do?> requestId=74 > 38683 > <http://askville.amazon.com/alien-Dennis-Rodman/AnswerDetails.do? > <http://askville.amazon.com/alien-Dennis-Rodman/AnswerDetails.do?> requestId=7 > 438683&responseId=7439488> &responseId=7439488 > > Even the TV show, "Third Rock" did an episode with Rodman as an alien. LOL > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/tv/program-guides/3rd-rock/season2/ > <http://www.faqs.org/faqs/tv/program-guides/3rd-rock/season2/> - SNIP - "... > The three bump into Dennis Rodman, an alien from their planet..." > > I thought everyone who watched enough TV knew about the allegations > (jestfully) accusing Rodman of being an alien from another planet. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > Well, it wasn't "us" (human beings) who swung from trees, but our ancestors > -- precessessor species which eventually developed into human beings -- IF > you choose to follow our evolutionary path. But as you're bringing in Adam & > Eve, 'nuff said -- I won't get into religion for reason recently discussed > (off Group). Although, with throwing that curious question out as to whether > Eve also ate that apple, I'm taking this whole scenario as tongue in cheek. > > Really don't know all that much about Dennis Rodman (so can't really > comment) as I don't follow basketball that closely, although I certainly > remember him as quite a player. I know he was a Forward for the Detroit > Pistons before retiring, but he wasn't the tallest player in the NBA as he > was "only" 6' 7". > > Then, there are the theories that aliens helped the Egyptians build the > pyramids and helped the Inca's to build Machu-Pichu -- and then, there's > that hugh bird-like carving on a plateu in the Andes that is said to have > acted as a landing strip for alien spacecraft. And, oh yes, all these > "crop-circles" are supposedly being made by aliens. I do hope they give > those poor space mariners who crashed at Roswell a decent burial someday, > unless that deceased crew has already been spirited away. > > As I understand what what into producing the Glo-Fish Danios, it seems that > just the portion of DNA that controls bioluminescence was injected into the > genome of Zebrafish -- if they could isolate it that well (as otherwise, we > might might a Brachydanio zebra with tentacles -- LOL). But I do understand > your questioning whether the injections of these genes were isolated only to > the pigmentation cell genes, as I believe you to mean. Perhaps their innards > are glowing as well <g>, we'll never know. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I mostly agree with you except for the "man developed from swinging > in the > > trees" part. Nothing I've ever read, other than various theories, > suggests > > that Adam & Eve ever swang from trees. ;-) Now, Eve did eat that > darned > > apple that we're all still paying for today... but that's a > whole 'nother > > subject! LOL > > > > And I noticed you didn't try to explain the Dennis Rodman > question. You > > know that aliens had to have implanted his genome with alien DNA. > What > > other explanation can there be? LOL > > > > I don't know enough about genetics and DNA manipulation to know if > the > > scientists who were injecting the jellyfish and marine fish DNA > into the > > zebra danio embryo were able to do it in a manner where it was only > into > > ONLY their pigmentation cells or into their entire DNA sequencing. > I know, > > at least I've read, that with humans, they are able to inspect, > alter, > > inject, etc., just the part of the DNA affecting a certain aspect > of the > > human embryo but I'm sure what was being done on fish was less > explicit than > > what is done with human embryo. > > > > That's probably what happened to Dennis Rodman... the aliens just > injected > > the DNA into his entire genome rather than one isolated part. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > Lenny, You seem to be "conveniently missing" (or temporarily > > forgetting) a MAJOR point in all of this, unless you didn't fully > understand > > how these fish were developed when we had the extensive discussion > on these > > fish back in March of this year, which included discussion by Alan > Blake et > > al. But I'm fairly convinced you have grasped the concept, at least > back > > then, when you referred to these Glo-Fish as "Genetic Mutants" in > your post > > # 26687 (3/18/08) -- 1st sentence, 4th paragraph. > > > > Yes, the DNA controlling bioluminenescence was injected from > another species > > (a marine Jellyfish -- Aequorea victoria, from Puget Sound), and > yes, this > > DNA controls the pigmentation of the Zebrafish's chloroplast > (color) cells > > -- but this Jellyfish DNA is not merely injected into the fish's > > pigmentation (chloroplast/color) cells, it is injected into and > added on to > > the fish's genome; these fish are genetically altered. As you > stated back in > > March, this fish is a GENETIC mutant, and you were close as at > least you > > realize that the genetics of this fish have changed (but not through > > mutation), by being genetically modified; there is a difference. > > > > This Coding DNA (as opposed to non-Coding DNA) from the Jellyfish > becomes > > part of the genome make-up of the Zebrafish. Genome (or "Gamete") = > The full > > set of chromosomes of an organism, and includes both the Genes > (Coding > > sequences of DNA) and non-Coding sequences of DNA. The genetic make- > up of > > these Glo-Fish have been permanently altered, so that when they > breed, the > > Jellyfish's DNA is passed along within the eggs and milt of these > fish as > > part of their increased (added to) chromosome make-up. > > > > Now, lets take that human with a pig's heart transplant. Why should > that > > make him a human-pig hybrid? There has been no exchange or addition > of DNA > > in this man's genome -- and without his gene's receiving > DNA/Chromosomes > > from the pig, he cannot pass on any pig DNA > > (genes) on to his children, as you too point out. But the point > here is > > there is a vast difference between adding another animal's physical > parts > > (heart valves, hearts, etc.) and another animal's chromosomes (DNA) > directly > > into a recipient's genome/chromosome make- up where breeding would > pass this > > along perpetually without further interferance or promotion. > > > > In the wild, as you know -- its only the survival of the fittest. A > > man-developed/engineered (line-bred) mutated Goldfish obviously > will not > > survive very long. On the other hand, if a mutation appears in the > wild that > > is even better suited to the survival of a fish than its present > complement > > of genes suits it (which these present genes HAS served it WELL to > have > > evolved up to this point), this mutation (better genes) will out- > perform its > > present genes and slowly overshadow its present genes, advancing > this fish > > to enable it to better survive its environment. This is how man > developed > > from swinging in the trees to walking on the Savanah, with > increasingly > > better genes developed through subsequent mutations. Ray > > > > P.S.: Even such mutations as the recessive Albino appear from time > to time > > in the wild, in fish populations (and Bison, and Elephants, and > Reptiles, > > etc.), but as they do not promote the advancement of the survival > of the > > species, those individuals are soon eliminated as they stand out > like a sore > > thumb to their predators. > > > > --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > You must have not watched the X-Files. How do you know we haven't > > been > > > injected with advanced alien DNA? How do you explain Dennis > > Rodman? LOL > > > > > > But yes, I do agree with your analogy that GloFish technically are > > > "mongrels" of a sort due to the injected DNA from another species > > but the > > > DNA was simply into their pigmentation cells rather than something > > that was > > > going to result in a hybridized fish. For example... > > > > > > What about a human who gets some kind of life-saving surgery where > > they use > > > a pig's heart valve transplant to save a life.. or even a heart > > transplant. > > > Does that make them a human-pig hybrid? If that person was to have > > > children, would their children be human-pig hybrids? I don't think > > so... > > > well, not unless they come out with funny snouts, roll around in > > mud puddles > > > and start oinking. LOL > > > > > > As far as the "fancy" goldfish, etc., in the wild, a mutated fish > > is far > > > more likely to be naturally culled from the population (aka eaten) > > before it > > > ever has a chance to procreate... although I'm sure there are > > exceptions. > > > Only due to man's interference and saving these mutant goldfish to > > breed > > > with other mutant goldfish for the sole purpose of creating a new > > strain of > > > mutant goldfish, do these fish have much of a chance to > survive.... > > and now > > > be sold as "fancy" goldfish. I have a couple that I bought before > I > > > realized what was done to "create" these mutants.. lol.. but that > > doesn't > > > mean I agree with what was done. These man-made goldfish have much > > shorter > > > life spans and far more health issues than God-made "normal" > > goldfish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:50 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > As I see it, Glofish are mongrels in the sense that they are the > > product of > > > two different species. While they are not a hybridized fish, > > resulting from > > > the breeding of two different species (the Zebra Danio was not > bred > > with the > > > Jellyfish), with the addition of Jellyfish DNA they are no longer > > 100% Zebra > > > Danio -- as is obvious by their appearance (they will forever be > > part > > > Jellyfish, as long as man procreates them). If you wish to > continue > > the fish > > > known as Brachydanio zebra as it appears in its naturally evolved > > form as a > > > species, you cannot breed a Glofish to an "un-enhanced" Zebra > > Danio; you > > > will be transferring the injected Jellyfish DNA (which is not > Zebra > > DNA) > > > with the Zebra genes to succeeding generations. > > > > > > Neither, are these mutant fish, as mutated fish are the result of > > the > > > mutation (change) of given species' genes -- not the addition of > > another > > > species' DNA by man -- it is a result of INHERITED characteristics > > from that > > > particular species' two parents (of the same species). > > > > > > Fancy Goldfish, other long-finned variants of other species and > > differing > > > body types, coloration, etc., of some species are the result of > > inbreeding > > > these species to "fix" these mutations (the individual species' > gene > > > changes) to develop a "strain" from these sports. But these fish > > are not > > > injected with DNA from an entirely different species, as has been > > done by > > > man with Glofish. These mutant fish which are developed by taking > > advantage > > > of a species changed/mutated genes (not being injected with > > another's DNA) > > > and being inbred by man are still 100% the same species. > > > > > > This process is an ongoing one in the wild, called evolution, when > > mutations > > > appear in a species' gene pool which are better suited to survive > > and take > > > better advantage of its environment than does its present gene > > complement. > > > It is the process whereby we got here through the eons -- and we > > were not > > > injected with another species' > > > DNA, but by mutating. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > No, GloFish are not mongrels, just genetically enhanced Zebra > > > Danio's. > > > > Genetically, they are still 100% Zebra Danio's... but several > > > generations > > > > ago (ZD generations, not ours), some mad scientist types.. lol.. > > > injected > > > > some ZD eggs with various glowing DNA from Jellyfish, other > marine > > > fish, > > > > etc., to cause the babies to be born with the day-glo coloring. > > > They are > > > > not hybridized fish like the Parrot Cichlids. Same with Fancy > > > Goldfish, > > > > long-finned variants of other fish, etc., and their morphed body > > > types and > > > > features... it was all done with inbreeding of mutant fish from > > > their > > > > species to other mutant fish from their species so genetically, > > > they're > > > > still 100% genetically pure... at least I think so. > > > > > > > > I guess it would be comparable to a mad scientist type taking a > > > human embryo > > > > and altering it's genetics so that it would be born and have > > bright > > > purple > > > > or green hair. It's still human... it will just have to spend > more > > > on > > > > Clairol products or learn how to fight and/or defend itself in > > > school. LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > > above > > > > listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bubuci@ > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:21 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > Peaches, > > > > My Glofish are pretty peaceful, active little guys. Fun to watch > > > them chase > > > > each other, but no aggression. > > > > > > > > Hope this helps :) > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tania > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@ <mailto:Iluvdoves%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:48:32 > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > > > > > I Understand that everyone hates these fish but mine are never > > > aggressive. I > > > > also wonder about Glofish? Are they mongrels too?? > > > > > > > > But as to mating the BP?? I have heard that they are sterile. > You > > > might want > > > > to check out www.parotcichlid.com > > > > > > > > Lots of good stuff there to read up on. > > > > > > > > Hope this Helps Some, > > > > Peaches > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Steve Szabo > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:35 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > > > > > The parrot cichlids found in stores are a hybrid fish. There is > > > another fish > > > > that is also known as a parrot cichlid,_Hoplarchus psittacus_, > but > > > you will > > > > not see them very frequently. Most hobbyists do not like the > > hybrid > > > parrot, > > > > and think that they should not be offered for sale, but that is > > > another > > > > whole ball of wax, and I am not tempted to walk into it now. > This > > > may be a > > > > reason why you have not received any replies to your post, > though > > > it has > > > > been available for better than 12 hours. > > > > > > > > However, my advice would be not to breed the fish to anything, > not > > > even > > > > another parrot cichlid. The big reason (other than my personal > > bias > > > against > > > > these fish) is that you mentioned that she is an aggressive > fish. > > > Trying to > > > > introduce a mate for her is liable to end badly for the male, > for > > > both, or > > > > for her due to the aggression she has exhibited to you. Many > > > cichlids are > > > > not known for their gentleness to each other, or their mates. > Even > > > if you > > > > use a tank divider to keep the two separate, once the barrier is > > > gone, all > > > > the decorum you may have noted will quickly disappear up the > > filter > > > siphon > > > > tube, never to return. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, there is always the chance that they may mate > > > before > > > > World War III breaks out in your tank. I stopped by to see a > > friend > > > of mine > > > > today. He has a 125 gallon tank--maybe larger--that houses a > > couple > > > of > > > > smallish pacu, and 5 convicts. He told me that this morning, > when > > > he came > > > > downstairs, he quickly was wide awake when he discovered the > glass > > > tank top > > > > was in the tank. The fish were in all the corners of the tank, > and > > > he thinks > > > > one may not make it until he gets home tonight. He does not know > > > exactly > > > > what happened, but is a bit chagrinned that he was not invited > to > > > the party > > > > <g>. [While I am at it, is there anyone in the Washington DC > area > > > that would > > > > like a couple of pacu?] > > > > > > > > Should you actually have a successful spawning, and manage to > > raise > > > the fry, > > > > have you considered what you are going to do with them? How > large > > > would you > > > > need to grow them to be marketable assuming there is a market > for > > a > > > mongrel > > > > fish? Do you have enough tank space to raise the fry to that > size? > > > Truth be > > > > told, you will not meet your expenses, most likely, for raising > > the > > > young to > > > > this point, you will probably just make enough to offset some of > > > your > > > > expense. > > > > > > > > Then also, there are the ethical questions about selling hybrid > > > fish. > > > > (Let's not get into any arguments over fancy goldfish, long > finned > > > zebra > > > > danios, color varieties of various fish, painting, tattooing, or > > > otherwise > > > > changing the looks of a fish--those are not hybrids.) > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On Behalf Of greychildren > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:28 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My blood parrot ciclid needs a mate > > > > > > > > OK guys i wondering because in my 20g i a single female blood > > > parrot ciclid, > > > > and she keeps on laying eggs every months she changes color from > > > dark orange > > > > to light orange. I need to find her a mate shes is very > aggressive > > > so i > > > > don't know witch ciclid breed should i get. I been told in other > > > forums that > > > > a convict ciclid will do fine but i don't know this is my wife > > > fish. shes > > > > had her for 10 years or so. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 3:56:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 5:06:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 5:23:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 1:04:52 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 1:44:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32152	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size soon to be upgraded. Advice needed

Around five male guppies (around 2" each) http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm (1/2 way down that page) would do nice and you wouldn't have to worry about the water quality problems that a mixed-sex tank or even all female tank would bring. Besides, the males of most fish species are the prettier sex anyhow. It's like that for nearly every male of every species... except us darn human males. We got beat with the ugly-stick compared to you girls. ;-) You could get other ideas from the long article on my blog, "Hailey's 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml and having a few or several live plants makes a 10G tank much nicer and helps with the overall ecology of the tank. Smaller tanks are more prone to overstocking and water quality issues changing more rapidly due to the lesser water volume compared to larger tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank size soon to be upgraded. Advice needed Hi all. It has recently come to my attention that i will be able to get a new tank, (minimum size of 10 gal) Approx 35 Ltrs. And I wanted to put some guppies in. Now My question is. Can I have all males? And How many in a ten gal tank? Thanks Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 1:56:53 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: tank size upgrade

If you moved all of your filter media and also your gravel/decorations to the 55G and then the fish from the 20G, then you should not experience a mini-cycle. The filter media will have the overwhelming majority of the nitrifying bacteria but some also resides on the surface areas of the rest of the tank as well. Unless you have a UGF, which would increase the N-bacteria level on the gravel, I'd bet that 80-90% of N-bacteria live in the filter media in HOB's, canisters, etc., but with a UGF, the gravel is part of the filter media so it would have a lot more N-bacteria in that type of filtration system. If the 20G filter was "cycled" to handle the bioload that you had in the 20G tank and you transferred all of that to the 55G, then you have not increased the bioload so you should not see any kind of mini-cycle. I call this "cloning" a tank and it's exactly what I do when I upsize a tank into a larger tank. I normally do a series of PWC's to vacuum up as much of the detritus as possible out of the gravel in the smaller tank first. Then I move the majority (60-70%) of the water, the fish and the filter system to the new larger tank first. Then add some fresh water to make sure the filter system intake is submerged, but do not top it off yet. Then I put a colander in the old tank and fill it with the gravel and lift it and swoosh it around to get any detritus that I might not have vacuumed up to go into suspension in the old tank. Then I transfer that colander into the new tank (there will still be some detritus that will come into the new tank but not much). Slowly pour it out onto the bottom of the tank. Repeat as necessary until all of the gravel has been moved to the new tank. In the case of a non-planted tank where you might have had 2" - 3" of gravel in the old tank, this would also be a good time to go with just a 1" layer of gravel in the new bigger tank. You don't really need thick layers of gravel on tanks without live plants and the 1" layer is much, much easier to keep clean when vacuuming the gravel during future PWC's. Then move the decorations, etc. and leave the lights off so the fish will be more relaxed while they get used to their new big tank. Now remember that as you add more fish, you will be increasing the bioload and then you will likely see a mini-cycle that might last up to a few days or more so test the water and do PWC's as needed if the ammonia or nitrite levels climb over .25ppm since you have such a high pH (ammonia is more toxic at higher pH and temps). Since you do have a high pH, you should probably use SeaChem's Prime tap water dechlor in the topping off of the new tank since Prime will make ammonia non-toxic to your fish but still make it available to the nitrifying bacteria. You should still test the ammonia and not let it climb too much over .25 to 1.0ppm even with the Prime just to be on the safe side. A pinch of salt per 10G will help to protect against nitrite poisoning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tank size upgrade ok so i started with a 20 gallon, once i got it cycled and established i used some gravel and water from it to start a 10 gallon tank and then a 29 gallon tank, which only took about a week or two to get those cycled. i now have bought a 55 gal tank, i put in new graveland a few new decorations, but then i took all the water, gravel and decor from the established 20 gallon and put it in the 50 gallon, then over the net day i slowly added fresh water a few gallons at a time until the tank was full, it has been running about a week now, the fish are doing well, ammonia and nitrites are 0ppm and my nitrates are about 7.5 ppm and ph is 8.2, let me now mention it is an african cichlid tank. i was told that the tank will show a spike in ammonia since i added so much new water, but i have been keeping a close eye on it and nothing so far, where my other seeded tanks had a early spike. so should i still expect to see a spike? or does it look like my bio filter stood up to the move and is still doing it's job properly? how long should i wait to add more fish? and any other info i might need to know would be helpful, thanks for your help _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 4:18:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32154	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: ick problem

As you can see, the 10G will suffer from temperature changes more because smaller volume tanks will change temps much faster than a larger volume tank (just like boiling a cup of water happens much faster than boiling a gallon of water). That is likely the reason your 10G fish got Ich worse than the larger tank. What kind of fish did you have in the two tanks? (Give us each tank's separate stocking as that matters when treating Ich) What treatment method or medicine are/were you using for treating the Ich? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ick problem ok i am really putting out some posts, so i noticed some white specs about a week ago in my 10 and 29 gallon tanks, i am hoping that it was from temp problems i was having, the heaters i bought were a piece of crap because they did not keep the temps high enough or consistantly at a single temp. i have now fixed my temp issues and i have been treating the ick since i noticed it, i am now on my 7th day of treatment and i lost two fish early on in my 10 gallon because they got it really bad, most of my fich that were infected have cleared up except a few little spots on one fish and two fish that are almost completely covered, if these fish stay in the tank could the others become infected? can these fish be cured since it seems like they have only gotten worse? what should i do to help them and prevent my other fish from getting infected, i do not have a tank to move them to, the best i have is a plastic floating isolation chamber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 4:22:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32155	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: advice please?

Oh.. I meant to ask.. who told you that you would have an ammonia spike because you added new water to the tank? Did they indicate why? There could be a very small level of ammonia released if your tap water is treated with chloramines when you dechlor the water and the chlorine is broken down which frees up a small amount of ammonia... but the ammonia level in chloramine is usually only 0.5ppm so even if doing the equivalent of a 50% PWC (or adding equal amounts of new water with old tank water), that would only increase the ammonia level to .025ppm... if nothing else was being done on the tank... but since you had a cycled filter system running on the tank, it would have been almost instantly cycled that small amount of ammonia into nitrates so it wouldn't be much different than the ammonia level your fish might experience during their constant gill function and peeing in the pool... oops.. meant tank. LOL If an uncycled tank was being filled with chloramine dechlored water, then the 0.5ppm of ammonia could be a problem if the water has a high pH or high temp but in your case, even the possible low levels of ammonia being added by chloramine dechlored water would be handled by the biofiltration since your filter was already fully cycled. As I mentioned in my previous reply, if I was going to have African Cichlids or any other hard water, high pH or high temp fish, I would use SeaChem's Prime as my main tap water dechlor product to make sure that any ammonia is made non-toxic since even low levels of ammonia become toxic in high pH and high temp tanks. This article and calculator explains more. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] advice please? ok so i started with a 20 gallon, once i got it cycled and established i used some gravel and water from it to start a 10 gallon tank and then a 29 gallon tank, which only took about a week or two to get those cycled. i now have bought a 55 gal tank, i put in new graveland a few new decorations, but then i took all the water, gravel and decor from the established 20 gallon and put it in the 50 gallon, then over the net day i slowly added fresh water a few gallons at a time until the tank was full, it has been running about a week now, the fish are doing well, ammonia and nitrites are 0ppm and my nitrates are about 7.5 ppm and ph is 8.2, let me now mention it is an african cichlid tank. i was told that the tank will show a spike in ammonia since i added so much new water, but i have been keeping a close eye on it and nothing so far, where my other seeded tanks had a early spike. so should i still expect to see a spike? or does it look like my bio filter stood up to the move and is still doing it's job properly? how long should i wait to add more fish? and any other info i might need to know would be helpful, thanks for your help ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 12:14:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 4:34:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32156	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

And, a by the way, did you know that emoticons for e-mail were invented 26 years ago? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: ick problem

I must have missed you mentioning Aquari-sol too since I just asked what treatment method you were using. I just re-read your OP below and do not see it mentioned so maybe you mentioned this in one of your other threads. This page has a pretty thorough and accurate listing of the ingredients in most aquarium related meds... http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html This is what it says about Aquari-sol: Aquarisol soluble copper salts Aquarium Products affected by hardness; use with caution, can be toxic to fish and inverts (END SNIP) Since it's copper based, it should not be used with certain fish and not at all if you have pet shrimp or snails in the tank. I think the salt/heat method is the safest method but of course, the higher salt levels may not be tolerated by some fish/critters/plants either. When treating Ich, I would probably remove the plants and critters into a quarantine tank and since any Ich that might get transferred into the Q-tank wouldn't have a host, they would die off anyhow while treating the other tank with the salt/heat method. Here's a good article on treating Ich and explaining Ich. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ick problem aquari-sol, like i said it has seemed to work on my 10 gallon, and all the infected fish in the 29 gallon except the two that seem to be getting worse --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > Its important to know the stages of icks life cycle to help treat it. when > the white spots are on the fish then, they will burst into eggs, which will > fall into the gravel, then the eggs hatch and then the larva attach to the > fish and create white spots and the whole thing starts again. ICH can only > be killed easilly when in larva form, and this is where most treatments get > the ich. they tell you to raise the temp of the tank to 85? i think it is > because this increases the speed at which the ich bug goes through its > phases, and will clear it up faster. you basically need all your white spots > to go away on your fish and then allow for a few days to pass to hopfully > kill the larva. I personally use Aquasol for my treatment of ich. I saved > both my clown loaches from it and most of my other fish. I find it to be > nearly a cureall type medication that is suitible for even clown loaches as > they can be hard to medicate and keep alive as they can react poorly to > medications. Ive used aquasol for a small case of fin rot also. > > What medication have you been using? The other guys will probably want to > know that. > > --Dave > > On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Courtland Jacob <courtland_jacob@... > > wrote: > > > ok i am really putting out some posts, so i noticed some white specs > > about a week ago in my 10 and 29 gallon tanks, i am hoping that it was > > from temp problems i was having, the heaters i bought were a piece of > > crap because they did not keep the temps high enough or consistantly > > at a single temp. i have now fixed my temp issues and i have been > > treating the ick since i noticed it, i am now on my 7th day of > > treatment and i lost two fish early on in my 10 gallon because they > > got it really bad, most of my fich that were infected have cleared up > > except a few little spots on one fish and two fish that are almost > > completely covered, if these fish stay in the tank could the others > > become infected? can these fish be cured since it seems like they have > > only gotten worse? what should i do to help them and prevent my other > > fish from getting infected, i do not have a tank to move them to, the > > best i have is a plastic floating isolation chamber > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 12:14:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 4:49:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32158	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

Here's an article by the inventor himself... http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sef/sefSmiley.htm Smiley :-) was invented on Sept. 19, 1982. Too bad he couldn't wait a couple of days or Smiley would be a Libra too! LOL Belated happy birthday to you, Smiley! My birthday present to you must have gotten lost in the mail! ;-) Or maybe I didn't send you one because the >:) (devil) made me do it! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... And, a by the way, did you know that emoticons for e-mail were invented 26 years ago? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> > > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 4:38:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 4:58:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32159	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size soon to be upgraded. Advice needed

Yes, you can have all males, with a few warnings sometimes even guppies can show aggression, and the weaker of the males may be bullied. Also due to the small size of guppies people tend to overstock don't let the small size fool you, 10 gallons is not a lot of water. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi all. > It has recently come to my attention that i will be able to get a new > tank, (minimum size of 10 gal) Approx 35 Ltrs. > And I wanted to put some guppies in. > Now My question is. > Can I have all males? > And How many in a ten gal tank? > > Thanks > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32160	From: Tony Davis	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Slight tank upgrade

Hi all I have at present a 30" * 12" * 15" tank, with 5 Serpae Tetra's and a pair of Kribs, I have about 5 Amazon swords, some Hygrophila Polysperma, and a couple of plants with straplike leaves. I am planning to move the fish and plants to a new tank, 36" * 12" * 15", with different, smaller (3mm) gravel, and new filters. My question is, how should I schedule the move? I was planning to run the new filter in the old tank alongside the existing filter to build up bacteria, then wash and put the new gravel in the new tank. Should I move the the filter and plants (and the Co2) straight over, or just the filter, then the plants after a few days. Also, how long should I run the new filter in the old tank? Lastly, how long before I move the fish? Many thanks Tony -- Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32161	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Slight tank upgrade

On the main Messages page on the group's site, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife, look at one of the threads just below yours titled "Tank Size Upgrade". I literally just finished posting to replies to that thread that almost exactly answers your questions in more detail than the next paragraph. In a simple answer, just use all of the filter media of your old filter in your new filter reservoir when you make the change and the new tank will then be cycled for your current bioload since you will be transferring the majority of the N-bacteria, which mostly resides in the filter media. That and the fact that you will be moving your plants should mean very little or no chance of a mini-cycled. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Davis Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Slight tank upgrade Hi all I have at present a 30" * 12" * 15" tank, with 5 Serpae Tetra's and a pair of Kribs, I have about 5 Amazon swords, some Hygrophila Polysperma, and a couple of plants with straplike leaves. I am planning to move the fish and plants to a new tank, 36" * 12" * 15", with different, smaller (3mm) gravel, and new filters. My question is, how should I schedule the move? I was planning to run the new filter in the old tank alongside the existing filter to build up bacteria, then wash and put the new gravel in the new tank. Should I move the the filter and plants (and the Co2) straight over, or just the filter, then the plants after a few days. Also, how long should I run the new filter in the old tank? Lastly, how long before I move the fish? Many thanks Tony -- Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 5:39:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 5:44:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32162	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

I’m with you Dr. Katie. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish Hey guys Thank you all for your reply, I also just wanted to clarify that it was the response on a Betta group that had me questioning the advice there, and so I brought my questions to you all. I read my post again and I just wanted to clarify, you guys are the experts in my book! BUT - what they heck is up with all these posts about Zebra Danios from Dora???!!! Enough already! Sorry girl but it just strikes me as really odd you that you seem to have so much invested in this going- no-where-fast old and done with discussion from like 2 days ago or more, even though you try to convince us you have better things to do. Its starting to drive me crazy! If I see one more post about the "missing fish/Zebra Danios" thread I think I'm going to scream! Is anyone else feeling me on this one or is it just me??? ;P Blessings Dr. Katie Craft --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I work for a living, Lenny. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:20 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > Dora.. this is your fifth time asking and my third time replying to you. > How can you NOT find the time to do your own research, yet you can > repeatedly post replies asking others to do the research for you? YOU COULD > HAVE READ EVERY FRIGGIN' HIT ON GOOGLE WITH ALL THE TIME YOU'VE WASTED > ASKING OTHERS TO DO IT FOR YOU. > > QUIT QUESTIONING WHAT I'VE TOLD YOU AND GO BACK AND LOOK AT MY ORIGINAL POST > AND QUIT CALLING THEM JUST DANIOS... I SPECIFICALLY SAID "ZEBRA DANIOS" AND > I POSTED THE PAGE THAT HAD THEM AND THEN I'VE SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU EXACTLY > WHERE TO LOOK ON THAT PAGE AND SPECIFICALLY WHERE TO LOOK ON A COUPLE OF > OTHER REPLIES SINCE THAT ORIGINAL POST. > > Now, scroll down in this email to my original post. Look at the link. > Scroll down the alphabetized list to the Z's in the Fish Section and there > you will find "Zebra Danio". TaDAAA... a miracle! > > God, it's so simple. No research involved... just follow the simple > directions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Lenny, I do not have time for researching right now. You're teh one claiming > danios are an invasive species; you should eb able to point us to the > information. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:25 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I > have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your > fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed > it out in my first reply. Read it again! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that > doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, > trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this > week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time > to research this. > > Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not > too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual > information. > > If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry > about at the moment. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully > inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Danios aren't listed either. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single > Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito > control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, > particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native > to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen > Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your > area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. > > You'll see them listed on this page... > http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. > http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> org/> <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> org/ > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> org/> > > > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" > http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> org/What_is.shtm> > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> org/What_is.shtm > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> org/What_is.shtm> > > is and how some are much worse than > others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our > waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with > Mother Nature!" > > Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the > southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, > according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely > released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but > I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have > been found in other local waters in southern States. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first > I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish > you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, > and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's > frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? > That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition > to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive > species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods > affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, > it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would > compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com > <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:07:48 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com > <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:25:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/26/2008 11:49:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 > Tested on: 10/27/2008 12:20:37 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32163	From: Tony Davis	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Slight tank upgrade

I will look, thanks for the reply below. Tony 2008/10/30 Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > On the main Messages page on the group's site, > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife, look at one of the threads just > below yours titled "Tank Size Upgrade". I literally just finished posting > to replies to that thread that almost exactly answers your questions in > more > detail than the next paragraph. > > In a simple answer, just use all of the filter media of your old filter in > your new filter reservoir when you make the change and the new tank will > then be cycled for your current bioload since you will be transferring the > majority of the N-bacteria, which mostly resides in the filter media. That > and the fact that you will be moving your plants should mean very little or > no chance of a mini-cycled. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Tony Davis > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Slight tank upgrade > > Hi all > > I have at present a 30" * 12" * 15" tank, with 5 Serpae Tetra's and a pair > of Kribs, I have about 5 Amazon swords, some Hygrophila Polysperma, and a > couple of plants with straplike leaves. I am planning to move the fish and > plants to a new tank, 36" * 12" * 15", with different, smaller (3mm) > gravel, > and new filters. My question is, how should I schedule the move? I was > planning to run the new filter in the old tank alongside the existing > filter > to build up bacteria, then wash and put the new gravel in the new tank. > Should I move the the filter and plants (and the Co2) straight over, or > just > the filter, then the plants after a few days. Also, how long should I run > the new filter in the old tank? Lastly, how long before I move the fish? > > Many thanks > > Tony > > -- > Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 5:39:29 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 5:44:01 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32164	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: My Mystery Fish

Awesome thank you ray. I am glad hes only getting as big as i expected him to otherwise. Hes a fast grower. I don't think my blue ram has put on a millimeter yet. ive only had them for about a month though. On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > wrote: > Dave, This is a Keyhole Cichlid -- its a nice peaceful Cichlid and > gets around 3" long. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "David > Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > > > just figured i would try you guys first see if anyone might just off > hand > > recognize this little guy. I thought when i first got him i was > getting a > > german blue ram, but it turns out he isn't, at least i dont see how > he could > > be hes got no color like the other does. > > > > http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2580/mysteryfishfh2.jpg > > > > Let me know what you guys think if you have any ideas. thanks! > > > > --Dave > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32165	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Sorry for the Typos in my post yesterday and today:)

Peaches! :) I'm the one who wanted the same 2 fish, the dojo and the Boesemani! Just keep in mind that you will probably not be able to keep them together as Dojos are not tropical, but rather a coldwater fish. I actually converted one tank to cold water, and am adding sand just for them, I threw my guppies in there too(cwf-a fish able to tolerate cold water) and can also throw in my Glofish since they are also cwf. I'm picking up my new Dojos today 8), I'm so excited! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Peaches <Iluvdoves@...> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:02:59 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Sorry for the Typos in my post yesterday and today:) I apologize for my spelling mistakes folks. My sound card has passed away and now my text to speech program will not work. I wonder if Lenny's smoke detector did that to my sound card:) (Evil peachy grin). I gots an idea!!!!!!! (Look out!!!!! Da Peach is trying to use her one brain cell that is about to die of loneliness). Lets make Glo Blood Parrot fish and Shelties!!!!!! We could sell them as Mars transplants!!! OOOOHHHHH!!!! Since I raise doves we could make them glow too. Where can we get enough Jellyfish though. Now my brain cell is overloading. I am looking into getting a new tank for myself and the funny thing is I was looking into Bosemani Rainbows and Dojo Loaches as possibilities. Then everyone started talking about them.:) I like large or bright fish because I have a chance to see them. My BP Gizmo is a pet. he waits for me to get up in the morning and hand feed him. I guess you could say that I am the only person on my street that can fish in my living room:) Anyway, Sorry for the typos guys. Hugs, Peaches [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32166	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Missing fish

I think I used a few more choice (but PG rated or less) words to say the same thing. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish I’m with you Dr. Katie. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Missing fish Hey guys Thank you all for your reply, I also just wanted to clarify that it was the response on a Betta group that had me questioning the advice there, and so I brought my questions to you all. I read my post again and I just wanted to clarify, you guys are the experts in my book! BUT - what they heck is up with all these posts about Zebra Danios from Dora???!!! Enough already! Sorry girl but it just strikes me as really odd you that you seem to have so much invested in this going- no-where-fast old and done with discussion from like 2 days ago or more, even though you try to convince us you have better things to do. Its starting to drive me crazy! If I see one more post about the "missing fish/Zebra Danios" thread I think I'm going to scream! Is anyone else feeling me on this one or is it just me??? ;P Blessings Dr. Katie Craft --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I work for a living, Lenny. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:20 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > > Dora.. this is your fifth time asking and my third time replying to you. > How can you NOT find the time to do your own research, yet you can > repeatedly post replies asking others to do the research for you? YOU COULD > HAVE READ EVERY FRIGGIN' HIT ON GOOGLE WITH ALL THE TIME YOU'VE WASTED > ASKING OTHERS TO DO IT FOR YOU. > > QUIT QUESTIONING WHAT I'VE TOLD YOU AND GO BACK AND LOOK AT MY ORIGINAL POST > AND QUIT CALLING THEM JUST DANIOS... I SPECIFICALLY SAID "ZEBRA DANIOS" AND > I POSTED THE PAGE THAT HAD THEM AND THEN I'VE SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU EXACTLY > WHERE TO LOOK ON THAT PAGE AND SPECIFICALLY WHERE TO LOOK ON A COUPLE OF > OTHER REPLIES SINCE THAT ORIGINAL POST. > > Now, scroll down in this email to my original post. Look at the link. > Scroll down the alphabetized list to the Z's in the Fish Section and there > you will find "Zebra Danio". TaDAAA... a miracle! > > God, it's so simple. No research involved... just follow the simple > directions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Lenny, I do not have time for researching right now. You're teh one claiming > danios are an invasive species; you should eb able to point us to the > information. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:25 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I > have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your > fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed > it out in my first reply. Read it again! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that > doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, > trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this > week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time > to research this. > > Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not > too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual > information. > > If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry > about at the moment. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully > inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Danios aren't listed either. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single > Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito > control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, > particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native > to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen > Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your > area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. > > You'll see them listed on this page... > http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. > http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > org/> <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > org/ > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > org/> > > > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" > http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > org/What_is.shtm> > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > org/What_is.shtm > <http://nis.gsmfc. <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm > <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > org/What_is.shtm> > is and how > some are much worse than > others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our > waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with > Mother Nature!" > > Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the > southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, > according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely > released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but > I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have > been found in other local waters in southern States. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish > > Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first > I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish > you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, > and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's > frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? > That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically > enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition > to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive > species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods > affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, > it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would > compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com > <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> > > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:07:48 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > com <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com > <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> > > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 1:25:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081026-0, 10/26/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 > 11:49:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32167	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

Yup.25 years ago, I bought my first computer(Commodore 64). About 28 years ago or so I first learned how to program(on a TRS-80 Model I and later, a Model III).yep.true geek :-D Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... And, a by the way, did you know that emoticons for e-mail were invented 26 years ago? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. <http://www.dict. <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32168	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Lenny, After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks like columnaris is what I have. The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, tetras, mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails. I see there are two products that are considered safe for invertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these? Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any signs of the disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday and was stressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish are exhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this batch die and a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. Neither one showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water test last night and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, Nitrates under 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to 7.2 range. I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine tank but it is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could move my friend the snails there while I treat. Advice? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Alina, > > Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a fungus but > is actually bacterial. > > Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this site - > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > Or the direct link to Columnaris is - > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don't have a > TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. > > Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fish disease, > went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, so the site > lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the > page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pages from > the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) so you will > always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while to > finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the WayBack Archives > slow server speeds. > > Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes" > sections: > > Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to: > Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent water > changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult to treat > because it attacks intracellularly. > > Other Notes - > > Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, > nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin > infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish especially > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by Dr. Barb. > Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that causes > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank > granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. Barb > discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with suspect > animals. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > Hi Jenny, > > Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially careful because > I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a last > resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank into another tank. > > Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. > > Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. > I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't tryed salt > for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, > I > > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for > > everything. Worth a try? > > > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital > > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing > at > > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > > tools.:-) > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda > like > > it's > > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much > and > > not > > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems > > normal. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 8:51:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 9:18:30 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32169	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: another Libra and fish stuff....

I didn't get in on the computer revolution that early on, but I did have friends with TRS-80's, Commodore's, etc. I remember that they had the TRS-DOS (Tandy Radio Shack - Disk Operating System), IBM came out with PC-DOS, Commodore had CBM-DOS, etc... all to soon be replaced by that little geeky guy named Bill with MS-DOS but of course, Apple DOS hung on to their little bit of market share as they still do today. No hard drives so every thing was kept on a series of 5" floppy disks and later the more advanced 3.5" enclosed disks.... the first "hard disks". LOL And then the infamous and ultra-advanced video game, Pong! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... Yup.25 years ago, I bought my first computer(Commodore 64). About 28 years ago or so I first learned how to program(on a TRS-80 Model I and later, a Model III).yep.true geek :-D Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... And, a by the way, did you know that emoticons for e-mail were invented 26 years ago? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... BTW.the asterisks are there just to denote an action rather than actual text.that is kind of the older way of showing a graphical emote before there were graphical emotes :-D _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... OK... what is *weg*? Wide-eyed grin? I did a Google and nothing came up as far as smiley's or email acronyms and most of the top hits had to do with it being used in the German language, although I don't remember learning it in my two years of German back in high school. Ahhh... I just did a different search using just - weg (without the *) - and see in the Urban Dictionary, W.E.G. stands for Wicked Evil Grin. LOL And in German, it means "way". http://www.dict. <http://www.dict. <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html <http://www.dict.cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> > > cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html> cc/german-english/auf+dem+Weg.html Not sure why I don't remember that... but then Wayne's World (and Garth) weren't invented on SNL when I was taking German in high school... "Nein weg... WEG!!!" ("No way... WAY!") LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... We just let you believe that *weg* Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: another Libra and fish stuff.... --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > I thought this was a Pisces / Aquarius group!!!!!! Hank =========================================== > Ooops.. I knew I had forgotten something! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > > Okey dokey Lenny, Back on the Lithium. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:49 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Today, AquaticLife.... tomorrow, THE WORLD!!! MUUUAHAHAHAHAHA }:-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Make that 4.mine was on the 19th. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Mike Huey > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] another Libra and fish stuff.... > > Me, too! My birthday's on the second. > > I have an eclectic group of fishes, not really intentionally, but > > everyone seems happy enough. I have mollies (two pairs), platies > > (one pair, six adolescents), 5 neons, 2 orange lazer corys and one > > German ram. I bought two rams because they're so darned cute, but > > one steadfastly refused to eat anything that wasn't living and when > > the last of the newest platys was gone,an event that saddened me > > considerably, he dwindled away fairly quickly. Maybe he was weak > > from the beginning. I wonder if these fish should be kept in > > groups? He seems quite brave and eats *everything* and doesn't seem > > unhappy at all. He's just a little guy, body about the size of a > > dime, but so cute...although a formidable little predator. I'm > > thinking I need a few loaches now, to remedy my own snail problems. > > They came on some plants, as well as that bladderwort, and have > > become legion. Their shells are almost transparent...they look kind > > of white, from a distance. I don't *think* I'm overfeeding, but > > they've certainly become prolific. Gads, suddenly I can think of a > > dozen other things I've been wanting to say, but I'll save it for > > another post. A little ram psychology lesson would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Jackie > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > pam andress <pamandress23@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow that makes three Libras here. My b-day was the 8th. Happy > > Birthday to everyone. > > > > > > Just to keep this on topic, I have switched over gravel from blue > > to natural browns and what a pita it was. I have two other tanks that > > have blue in them and would love to change them, but not for a while. > > Try to keep it as natural as possible and then it looks better. Also > > think about what it looks like with poop on it. White I would think > > would show it a lot. Tan may not be as bad. I'm not sure on the > > black. I know everyone just loves keeping their tanks clean, but I > > sure wouldn't want to see it all the time. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@: GoldLenny@: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:39:15 - > > 0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand Substates > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for B/D wishes.. and right back at you too! Mine was the > > 22nd andthe 23rd is when Scorpio starts which is why my mom said I > > had Scorpiotendencies. Don't worry too much about the "woman's > > prerogative" thing. I hear thatafter 10 or 20 years or so, us guys > > learn to put up with it... I justhaven't been able to make it that > > long with any of you girls yet. LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - > > http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > OnBehalf Of bubuci@: Tuesday, > > October 28, 2008 10:11 AMTo: AquaticLife@: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > FW Sand SubstatesLol, ok so Happy Birthday then! When is/was it? > > You're right, maybe the black then. Yes maybe its a woman thing, but > > itspretty bad sometimes lol!Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T- > > Mobile-----Original Message-----From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 > > 09:39:11To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesI'm also technically a Libra but my mom says that since I > > was born on thecusp, I have Scorpio tendencies... whatever that > > means. I don't follow theZodiac stuff or put much credence in > > horoscopes but I certainly understandthe entertainment value in it > > for those that do.... so don't blame it onbeing a Libra. We all know > > it's the woman thing! LOLIt's good that you're taking your time in > > deciding. I personally would gowith a natural substrate but either > > the black or tan/white sand is also goodchoices since they are also > > somewhat natural looking. I have and have hadvarious colors of gravel > > over the years and after a while, especially oncegetting into planted > > tanks, I wish I had more natural looking substrates inthose > > tanks.Changing out the substrate is a chore, not only to you but to > > the fish andthe tanks ecology, so it's best to start off with > > something that willdefinitely be something you want for long > > term.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ><http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > > > (Links to >articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under > > Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of bubuci@ <mailto:bubuci% > > 40tmo.blackberry.net>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:23 AMTo: > > AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW Sand > > SubstatesLenny!LOL! I'm a libra! What can I say, that's a typical > > Libra problem,indecisiveness!Also, they only had two 5lbs bags of > > black, I didn't know at the time whereelse to find it so I guess that > > influenced my choice.But see, I didn't open the bag yet because I was > > thinking about the blackagain!Oh yeah, this can go on for days! Lol! > > Cheers,TaniaSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-- -- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:20:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:33:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32170	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?

Eric! :) Do you mean you keep your Kuhlis and Weather loaches together? How many do you have of each? What is the approx temp you keep them at? My Husbands idea of room temp requires a blanket or sweater for me :P so that's why I ask :). Do you have a sand substrate for them? How big are yours and how big are their tanks? Sorry for bombarding you with questions 8) Lol! Thanks in advance for your reply! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:38:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? I have both and keep the water at a little higher than room temperature (from the lighting). I had thought they had died or were eaten (or both) until I removed my UGF and there there were happily hiding underneath. Now they only come out whenthe weather is bad . Apparently they are a bit sensitive to pressure changes which is what earned them the nickname "Weather Loach". They are totally peacefiul.mostly hiding if they can. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Jennifer! Thanks for your reply! :D what temp do you keep your Dojos in? What size tank? How big are they? I actually do have 2 Kuhlis, one is a Java though, but they hang out together but don't do much else, they hide a lot. I really like the aspect of the weather loach reacting to weather changes. Fun! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Walker <Risika23@yahoo. <mailto:Risika23%40yahoo.com> com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:47:31 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? I have both gold and regular dojos in one tank. The plain dojos seem to be more active and slightly bigger. I would not keep just one though. They really love to be in groups. Mine play and swim around with eachother. If your tank is a little warmer you might try Black Kuhli Loaches. They are much smaller, around 2in, so you could possibly keep a group. I do not have snails so I dont know about that one but I would bet that Kuhlis would be too small to eat your snails. Both kuhlis and Dojo are very peace full. I keep them with Danios in one tank and Corys in another and have never had a problem. Jennifer --- On Sat, 10/25/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 10:17 AM I've never kept them, but like all fish, the best bet is to try and provide them with their preferred environment. .. including tank size, shoaling mates, etc., but I'm sure people have been successful with them outside of their preferred parameters. They are cool water fish, not tropical fish, and your snails/shrimp may become snacks. http://www.loaches. com/species- index/weather- loach-misgurnis- anguillicaudatu s http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_dojo.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackber> ry.net Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Hey Gang, Does anyone have experience with Weather or Dojo Loaches? I'm considering getting one, I know you are supposed to have a group, but my tank can't handle it. I can do 1, but 3 will be overcrowded I think. How many gallons per Dojo and will they do ok with regular gravel? What do they like to eat? What color do most of you prefer, Gold or Original? Will they bother my Mystery Snails or Ghost Shrimp? Will they get on with a Blue Ram? Thanks in advance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:17:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32171	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Since columnaris is bacterial (gram negative bacteria), an antibiotic would be the right kind of medication, if you were sure that is what you have... but if your other fish are not showing signs, I would first use a salt treatment. Bring the salt level up to 0.3% (three level teaspoons per gallon) but bring it up at the dose of one level teaspoon per gallon, then twelve hours later another one teaspoon per gallon and then twelve hours later, the third one level teaspoon per gallon dose. This gives the fish and nitrifying bacteria a chance to acclimate to the salt level. (SEE ONE OF MY LAST FEW PARAGRAPHS, STARTING WITH "ARGHHHH" THAT I WROTE AFTER I REALIZED YOU ALSO HAVE CORYDORAS) There's no use in using antibiotics when they may not be needed and they are used too often or unnecessarily in aquaria so we are getting resistant strains of bacteria in the hobby. And Salt is a heck of a lot cheaper too! A 2 lb. box might be 50 cents and would more than treat your current problem. Of course, never pour salt directly into a tank. Remove some tank water and dilute the salt in that water and then slowly pour it back into the tank avoiding the fish and filter intake. Applesnails can tolerate this 0.3% dosage as well, or you could move them since "tolerate" doesn't mean they like being in salty water. http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795 You could also remove any plants as well and disinfect them. http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 I don't see either of your meds on this list: http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html Where are you finding these meds? I've never heard of them but Google says: Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid (is this what you found?) http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/1 02424.asp Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfate Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid Benefits: Prevents & Controls Protozoan Diseases Prevents & Controls Bacterial Diseases Prevents & Controls Fungal Diseases Helps Regenerate Damaged Fins & Tails Active Ingredient Speeds Recovery Safe & Effective Short-Term Treatment (3 to 7 days typically) Easy-To-UseGives Your Betta Their Best Chance At A Rapid Recovery Aqua Pro Cure - http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm (is this what you found? It's a good idea to post links to medications so other will be able to look at what you are looking at) What diseases specifically does Aqua Pro-Cure treat? Aqua Pro-Cure is used for the treatment of a range of external parasites such as Amlyoodinium (marine velvet), Brooklynella, Oodinium (freshwater velvet or rust), Chilodonella, and gill flukes. It is also used to treat external bacterial infections such as bacterial fin and tail rot. (END SNIPS) IMO, Salt would be a better choice over either of those and the Aqua Pro Cure doesn't seem applicable at all. The Revive stuff may be applicable... if that is what you were looking at but when I searched Google for "neomycin sulfate", I did find this page saying it was good for gram negative bacteria (the third med down) http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html I also found this page with a product called Revive. http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm But further searching found the MSDS with these ingredients: Water >93% Formaldehyde <2% Methyl Alcohol <1% Acriflavine Hydrochloride <2% 9-Aminoacridine <2% I'd stick with Salt first. ARGGHHH.. after taking another look at your reply, I see you also have corydoras. Which species? Regardless, much of what I've read/learned says that Corys do not tolerate salt as well either. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml (SNIP - Salt tolerance in freshwater fishes varies. The percomorph fishes, like cichlids and anabantoids, are derived from marine ancestors in the age of dinosaurs. In general, they are more salt-tolerant than ostariophysii, the loaches and minnows, characins and catfish that have descended from freshwater ancestors. Years ago, William T. Innes reported that when a range of freshwater fishes were exposed to salt baths, the first to die were Corydoras. Those ostariophysan fishes that navigate by electric fields, like knife fishes, gymnotid eels and the "elephant noses" or mormyrids, should never be exposed to salt baths, according to the University of Florida. Killifishes and livebearers are more tolerant of salt, on the whole. But there are many exceptions to this very broad rule. Be aware of the salt tolerance of your particular fish. END SNIP) But that is talking about a Salt Bath which is a much higher dose of 35 teaspoons per gallon instead of just 3 teaspoons per gallon treatment that I am talking about and nothing I have in my favorites is jumping out at me about what level of salt corys can tolerate. You may want to move them also... or move the fish (except the corydoras) to the 10G and treat them with the salt to 0.3% (three teaspoons per gallon) and the main 38G tank with salt only to 0.1% (one teaspoon per gallon). Be ready to do a 1/3 PWC in the event your corys start showing signs of stress related to the salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris Lenny, After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks like columnaris is what I have. The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, tetras, mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails. I see there are two products that are considered safe for invertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these? Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any signs of the disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday and was stressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish are exhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this batch die and a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. Neither one showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water test last night and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, Nitrates under 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to 7.2 range. I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine tank but it is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could move my friend the snails there while I treat. Advice? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Alina, > > Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a fungus but > is actually bacterial. > > Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this site > - > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease .> > html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > Or the direct link to Columnaris is - > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease .> > html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don't have a > TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. > > Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fish disease, > went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, so the site > lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the > page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pages from > the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) so you will > always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while > to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the WayBack Archives > slow server speeds. > > Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes" > sections: > > Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to: > Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent > water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult to > treat because it attacks intracellularly. > > Other Notes - > > Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, > nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin > infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish especially > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by Dr. Barb. > Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that causes > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank > granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. > Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with > suspect animals. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > Hi Jenny, > > Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially careful because > I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a > last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank into another tank. > > Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. > > Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. > I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't tryed salt > for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, > I > > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for > > everything. Worth a try? > > > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital > > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing > at > > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > > tools.:-) > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda > like > > it's > > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much > and > > not > > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems > > normal. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:31:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 8:44:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32172	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Aline, I only saw your post on this late last night (early this morning), along with Lenny's reply, and figured you wouldn't be up on the 'puter at that hour so didn't post anything. Your conclusion of this disease as being Columnaris (as I suspected) makes more sense than it being piscine skin TB. This latter disease is much rarer in appearance even than piscine internal (abdominal) TB, which is rare enough it itself, not to say that either of these could not occur. I've never seen nor heard of piscine skin TB occurring on the lips, although both are similarly colored, with Columnaris appearing as a white discoloration and skin TB as blue-white. Columnaris is an especially rapid and aggressive disease, as you found out already with the loss of your Platy. As you saw the manifestation of this disease Sunday night, its too bad you did not inquire here at that time. Its no surprise that your other Platy from the same batch also died, although the loss of your Guppy may have just been coincidental -- we'll never know, unless you observed signs of this disease on that fish. This is a contagious disease, which would ordinarily have an effect on all fish subjected to the same conditions that caused the Platy's to contract it. However, since it was not your tank conditions that brought this on, your fish would not have experienced the stress that would cause it, and should not be at risk to it. While I don't take to medicating fish unnecessarily, and I would not ordinarily recommend treating your fish unless you saw signs of it, it might be prudent to take some precautions in cutting this disease off at the pass. For starters, raise the temperature to 80 o, which will boost the immune system of the fish, and even though your water parameters look excellent, perform at least a small (15% - 20%) PWC, at no lower (I feel I need to stress this) temperature than the present one of your tank. A PWC will always aid in the well-being of any fish and further reduce any stress it may be receiving -- and I realize your fishes' stress factor is practically nil at this time, except for combatting this gram-positive Mycobacterium. You might try medicating against Columnaris at half-strength in efforts to support the fishes' immunity system. Keep in mind though, that most antibiotics can affect your nitrifying bacteria. Snails are unaffected by antibiotics derived from bacterial cultures (as noted by the suffix -- "yn"), but do not tolerate chemical antibiotics as well (and they especially will not survive dye medications). Normally, I would recommend Tetracycline, up to pH 7.5, and I see your water is pH 6.8 - 7.2. This is the most effective medication against Columnaris I've found to date, at pH's below 7.5. Maracyn II (Minocycline), as Lenny suggests, is also effective against Columnaris (but not Maracyn/Erythromycin), as is Kanamycin (Seachem's KanaPlex); you need a gram-negative antibiotic such as one of these, as Columnaris is a gram-negative bacterium. Your Aqua Pro Cure and Revive are both gram-negative antibiotics, and although neither are expressly recommended by the manufacturer for use against Columnaris, there's no reason why they should not work. I do not know their ingredients, so cannot advise about their safety with snails -- I only note your stating they are safe for inverts. The Aqua Pro Cure gains in strength above a pH of 8.0, and one only needs to use half the usual amount of this medication at these higher pH values to be effective, but I see your pH will not concern you in this regard. Yes, I would do a whole-tank treatment. For best results, as with many medications, they should be re-administered daily -- with 25% PWC's before each dose -- until a cure is affected; in your case (since there are no signs of Columnaris showing), I'd discontinue it after 5 days, with a final PWC afterwards, lowering the temperature gradually only after another 3 days. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > Lenny, > > After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks like > columnaris is what I have. > > The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, > tetras, mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails. > > I see there are two products that are considered safe for > invertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these? > > Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any > signs of the disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on > Sunday and was stressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No > other fish are exhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy > from this batch die and a guppy too that had been with me a while. So > I am concerned. Neither one showed any signs of anything before they > died. I did a water test last night and all my levels are good, from > Ammonia and Nitrites at O, Nitrates under 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to > 7.2 range. > > I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine > tank but it is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I > could move my friend the snails there while I treat. > > Advice? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Alina, > > > > Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a > fungus but > > is actually bacterial. > > > > Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this site - > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di sease. > > html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > > Or the direct link to Columnaris is - > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di sease. > > html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don't > have a > > TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. > > > > Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fish > disease, > > went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, so > the site > > lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the > > page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pages > from > > the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) so > you will > > always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while to > > finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the WayBack > Archives > > slow server speeds. > > > > Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes" > > sections: > > > > Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to: > > Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent water > > changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult to treat > > because it attacks intracellularly. > > > > Other Notes - > > > > Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, > > nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin > > infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish > especially > > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by > Dr. Barb. > > Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that > causes > > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank > > granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. Barb > > discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with suspect > > animals. > > (END SNIP) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > Hi Jenny, > > > > Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially careful > because > > I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a last > > resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank into > another tank. > > > > Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. > > > > Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. > > I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't > tryed salt > > for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > > > Jennie > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > > > > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, > > I > > > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for > > > everything. Worth a try? > > > > > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital > > > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing > > at > > > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > > > tools.:-) > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda > > like > > > it's > > > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much > > and > > > not > > > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems > > > normal. > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > > Tested on: 10/29/2008 8:51:03 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > > Tested on: 10/29/2008 9:18:30 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32173	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Gosh, Lenny. My chest is closing up just reading your posting. Get me a paper bag!! This is becoming complicated. I'm sure I'll be more confident as I get more experience. I'd frankly prefer to try salt first. I'm with you on the antibiotics. My Cory is a Cory albino catfish (Armored catfish). Here's a YouTube video of exactly what I have in my tank. Only one. He's new too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCqRO9VxkA I think I can most easily move my snails to the 10 gallon, which is mid cycle. I'm worried though, there isn't enough algae and stuff. But I'll just feed them and do water changes. I think that's probably best. So how many days do I keep up the salt regimen? Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since columnaris is bacterial (gram negative bacteria), an antibiotic would > be the right kind of medication, if you were sure that is what you have... > but if your other fish are not showing signs, I would first use a salt > treatment. > > Bring the salt level up to 0.3% (three level teaspoons per gallon) but bring > it up at the dose of one level teaspoon per gallon, then twelve hours later > another one teaspoon per gallon and then twelve hours later, the third one > level teaspoon per gallon dose. This gives the fish and nitrifying bacteria > a chance to acclimate to the salt level. (SEE ONE OF MY LAST FEW > PARAGRAPHS, STARTING WITH "ARGHHHH" THAT I WROTE AFTER I REALIZED YOU ALSO > HAVE CORYDORAS) > > There's no use in using antibiotics when they may not be needed and they are > used too often or unnecessarily in aquaria so we are getting resistant > strains of bacteria in the hobby. And Salt is a heck of a lot cheaper too! > A 2 lb. box might be 50 cents and would more than treat your current > problem. > > Of course, never pour salt directly into a tank. Remove some tank water and > dilute the salt in that water and then slowly pour it back into the tank > avoiding the fish and filter intake. > > Applesnails can tolerate this 0.3% dosage as well, or you could move them > since "tolerate" doesn't mean they like being in salty water. > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795 > > You could also remove any plants as well and disinfect them. > http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > > I don't see either of your meds on this list: > http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html > > Where are you finding these meds? I've never heard of them but Google says: > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid (is this what you found?) > http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/1 > 02424.asp Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfate > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid > Benefits: > Prevents & Controls Protozoan Diseases > Prevents & Controls Bacterial Diseases > Prevents & Controls Fungal Diseases > Helps Regenerate Damaged Fins & Tails > Active Ingredient Speeds Recovery > Safe & Effective Short-Term Treatment (3 to 7 days typically) > Easy-To-UseGives Your Betta Their Best Chance At A Rapid Recovery > > > > Aqua Pro Cure - http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm (is this what > you found? It's a good idea to post links to medications so other will be > able to look at what you are looking at) > > What diseases specifically does Aqua Pro-Cure treat? > > Aqua Pro-Cure is used for the treatment of a range of external parasites > such as Amlyoodinium (marine velvet), Brooklynella, Oodinium (freshwater > velvet or rust), Chilodonella, and gill flukes. It is also used to treat > external bacterial infections such as bacterial fin and tail rot. > (END SNIPS) > > IMO, Salt would be a better choice over either of those and the Aqua Pro > Cure doesn't seem applicable at all. The Revive stuff may be applicable... > if that is what you were looking at but when I searched Google for "neomycin > sulfate", I did find this page saying it was good for gram negative bacteria > (the third med down) http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html I also > found this page with a product called Revive. > http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm But further searching found the MSDS with > these ingredients: > Water >93% > Formaldehyde <2% > Methyl Alcohol <1% > Acriflavine Hydrochloride <2% > 9-Aminoacridine <2% > > I'd stick with Salt first. > > ARGGHHH.. after taking another look at your reply, I see you also have > corydoras. Which species? > > Regardless, much of what I've read/learned says that Corys do not tolerate > salt as well either. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml (SNIP - Salt > tolerance in freshwater fishes varies. The percomorph fishes, like cichlids > and anabantoids, are derived from marine ancestors in the age of dinosaurs. > In general, they are more salt-tolerant than ostariophysii, the loaches and > minnows, characins and catfish that have descended from freshwater > ancestors. Years ago, William T. Innes reported that when a range of > freshwater fishes were exposed to salt baths, the first to die were > Corydoras. Those ostariophysan fishes that navigate by electric fields, like > knife fishes, gymnotid eels and the "elephant noses" or mormyrids, should > never be exposed to salt baths, according to the University of Florida. > Killifishes and livebearers are more tolerant of salt, on the whole. But > there are many exceptions to this very broad rule. Be aware of the salt > tolerance of your particular fish. END SNIP) > > But that is talking about a Salt Bath which is a much higher dose of 35 > teaspoons per gallon instead of just 3 teaspoons per gallon treatment that I > am talking about and nothing I have in my favorites is jumping out at me > about what level of salt corys can tolerate. You may want to move them > also... or move the fish (except the corydoras) to the 10G and treat them > with the salt to 0.3% (three teaspoons per gallon) and the main 38G tank > with salt only to 0.1% (one teaspoon per gallon). Be ready to do a 1/3 PWC > in the event your corys start showing signs of stress related to the salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris > > > Lenny, > > After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks like > columnaris is what I have. > > The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, tetras, > mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails. > > I see there are two products that are considered safe for > invertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these? > > Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any signs of > the disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday and was > stressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish are > exhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this batch die > and a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. Neither > one showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water test last > night and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, Nitrates > under 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to > 7.2 range. > > I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine tank but > it is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could move my > friend the snails there while I treat. > > Advice? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Alina, > > > > Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a > fungus but > > is actually bacterial. > > > > Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this site > > - > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > .> > > html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > > Or the direct link to Columnaris is - > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > .> > > html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don't > have a > > TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. > > > > Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fish > disease, > > went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, so > the site > > lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the > > page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pages > from > > the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) so > you will > > always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while > > to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the WayBack > Archives > > slow server speeds. > > > > Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes" > > sections: > > > > Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to: > > Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent > > water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult to > > treat because it attacks intracellularly. > > > > Other Notes - > > > > Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, > > nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin > > infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish > especially > > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by > Dr. Barb. > > Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that > causes > > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank > > granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. > > Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with > > suspect animals. > > (END SNIP) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > Hi Jenny, > > > > Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially careful > because > > I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a > > last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank into > another tank. > > > > Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. > > > > Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. > > I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't > tryed salt > > for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > > > Jennie > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > > > > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, > > I > > > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for > > > everything. Worth a try? > > > > > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital > > > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing > > at > > > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > > > tools.:-) > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda > > like > > > it's > > > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much > > and > > > not > > > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems > > > normal. > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:31:44 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 8:44:40 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32174	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish)

Good Lord, Dora! Why are you nitpicking? They have ben found and identified in the wild, therefore they are an introduced species that will affect the ecosystem they are in, for good or bad. Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32175	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

This is where I found the names of those two products. I too, had never heard of or seen them before, so that's why I ask: http://www.fishvet.com/columnaris.htm --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since columnaris is bacterial (gram negative bacteria), an antibiotic would > be the right kind of medication, if you were sure that is what you have... > but if your other fish are not showing signs, I would first use a salt > treatment. > > Bring the salt level up to 0.3% (three level teaspoons per gallon) but bring > it up at the dose of one level teaspoon per gallon, then twelve hours later > another one teaspoon per gallon and then twelve hours later, the third one > level teaspoon per gallon dose. This gives the fish and nitrifying bacteria > a chance to acclimate to the salt level. (SEE ONE OF MY LAST FEW > PARAGRAPHS, STARTING WITH "ARGHHHH" THAT I WROTE AFTER I REALIZED YOU ALSO > HAVE CORYDORAS) > > There's no use in using antibiotics when they may not be needed and they are > used too often or unnecessarily in aquaria so we are getting resistant > strains of bacteria in the hobby. And Salt is a heck of a lot cheaper too! > A 2 lb. box might be 50 cents and would more than treat your current > problem. > > Of course, never pour salt directly into a tank. Remove some tank water and > dilute the salt in that water and then slowly pour it back into the tank > avoiding the fish and filter intake. > > Applesnails can tolerate this 0.3% dosage as well, or you could move them > since "tolerate" doesn't mean they like being in salty water. > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795 > > You could also remove any plants as well and disinfect them. > http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > > I don't see either of your meds on this list: > http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html > > Where are you finding these meds? I've never heard of them but Google says: > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid (is this what you found?) > http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/1 > 02424.asp Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfate > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid > Benefits: > Prevents & Controls Protozoan Diseases > Prevents & Controls Bacterial Diseases > Prevents & Controls Fungal Diseases > Helps Regenerate Damaged Fins & Tails > Active Ingredient Speeds Recovery > Safe & Effective Short-Term Treatment (3 to 7 days typically) > Easy-To-UseGives Your Betta Their Best Chance At A Rapid Recovery > > > > Aqua Pro Cure - http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm (is this what > you found? It's a good idea to post links to medications so other will be > able to look at what you are looking at) > > What diseases specifically does Aqua Pro-Cure treat? > > Aqua Pro-Cure is used for the treatment of a range of external parasites > such as Amlyoodinium (marine velvet), Brooklynella, Oodinium (freshwater > velvet or rust), Chilodonella, and gill flukes. It is also used to treat > external bacterial infections such as bacterial fin and tail rot. > (END SNIPS) > > IMO, Salt would be a better choice over either of those and the Aqua Pro > Cure doesn't seem applicable at all. The Revive stuff may be applicable... > if that is what you were looking at but when I searched Google for "neomycin > sulfate", I did find this page saying it was good for gram negative bacteria > (the third med down) http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html I also > found this page with a product called Revive. > http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm But further searching found the MSDS with > these ingredients: > Water >93% > Formaldehyde <2% > Methyl Alcohol <1% > Acriflavine Hydrochloride <2% > 9-Aminoacridine <2% > > I'd stick with Salt first. > > ARGGHHH.. after taking another look at your reply, I see you also have > corydoras. Which species? > > Regardless, much of what I've read/learned says that Corys do not tolerate > salt as well either. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml (SNIP - Salt > tolerance in freshwater fishes varies. The percomorph fishes, like cichlids > and anabantoids, are derived from marine ancestors in the age of dinosaurs. > In general, they are more salt-tolerant than ostariophysii, the loaches and > minnows, characins and catfish that have descended from freshwater > ancestors. Years ago, William T. Innes reported that when a range of > freshwater fishes were exposed to salt baths, the first to die were > Corydoras. Those ostariophysan fishes that navigate by electric fields, like > knife fishes, gymnotid eels and the "elephant noses" or mormyrids, should > never be exposed to salt baths, according to the University of Florida. > Killifishes and livebearers are more tolerant of salt, on the whole. But > there are many exceptions to this very broad rule. Be aware of the salt > tolerance of your particular fish. END SNIP) > > But that is talking about a Salt Bath which is a much higher dose of 35 > teaspoons per gallon instead of just 3 teaspoons per gallon treatment that I > am talking about and nothing I have in my favorites is jumping out at me > about what level of salt corys can tolerate. You may want to move them > also... or move the fish (except the corydoras) to the 10G and treat them > with the salt to 0.3% (three teaspoons per gallon) and the main 38G tank > with salt only to 0.1% (one teaspoon per gallon). Be ready to do a 1/3 PWC > in the event your corys start showing signs of stress related to the salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris > > > Lenny, > > After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks like > columnaris is what I have. > > The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, tetras, > mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails. > > I see there are two products that are considered safe for > invertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these? > > Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any signs of > the disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday and was > stressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish are > exhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this batch die > and a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. Neither > one showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water test last > night and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, Nitrates > under 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to > 7.2 range. > > I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine tank but > it is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could move my > friend the snails there while I treat. > > Advice? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Alina, > > > > Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a > fungus but > > is actually bacterial. > > > > Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this site > > - > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > .> > > html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > > Or the direct link to Columnaris is - > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > .> > > html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don't > have a > > TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. > > > > Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fish > disease, > > went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, so > the site > > lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the > > page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pages > from > > the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) so > you will > > always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while > > to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the WayBack > Archives > > slow server speeds. > > > > Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes" > > sections: > > > > Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to: > > Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent > > water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult to > > treat because it attacks intracellularly. > > > > Other Notes - > > > > Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, > > nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin > > infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish > especially > > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by > Dr. Barb. > > Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that > causes > > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank > > granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. > > Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with > > suspect animals. > > (END SNIP) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > Hi Jenny, > > > > Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially careful > because > > I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a > > last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank into > another tank. > > > > Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. > > > > Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. > > I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't > tryed salt > > for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > > > Jennie > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > > > > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, > > I > > > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for > > > everything. Worth a try? > > > > > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital > > > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing > > at > > > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > > > tools.:-) > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda > > like > > > it's > > > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much > > and > > > not > > > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems > > > normal. > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:31:44 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 8:44:40 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Well, now that Ray has chimed in suggesting the antibiotics, maybe you should go ahead and do that... although, like Ray said, I'm not sure the two meds you inquired about would be my first choices. Do you have a PetsMart of other big pet store or LFS in your area where you could get meds? If you have a PetsMart, go to their website first and print out their online pricing as the local stores will match the price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris Gosh, Lenny. My chest is closing up just reading your posting. Get me a paper bag!! This is becoming complicated. I'm sure I'll be more confident as I get more experience. I'd frankly prefer to try salt first. I'm with you on the antibiotics. My Cory is a Cory albino catfish (Armored catfish). Here's a YouTube video of exactly what I have in my tank. Only one. He's new too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCqRO9VxkA <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCqRO9VxkA> I think I can most easily move my snails to the 10 gallon, which is mid cycle. I'm worried though, there isn't enough algae and stuff. But I'll just feed them and do water changes. I think that's probably best. So how many days do I keep up the salt regimen? Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since columnaris is bacterial (gram negative bacteria), an antibiotic would > be the right kind of medication, if you were sure that is what you have... > but if your other fish are not showing signs, I would first use a salt > treatment. > > Bring the salt level up to 0.3% (three level teaspoons per gallon) but bring > it up at the dose of one level teaspoon per gallon, then twelve hours later > another one teaspoon per gallon and then twelve hours later, the third one > level teaspoon per gallon dose. This gives the fish and nitrifying bacteria > a chance to acclimate to the salt level. (SEE ONE OF MY LAST FEW > PARAGRAPHS, STARTING WITH "ARGHHHH" THAT I WROTE AFTER I REALIZED YOU ALSO > HAVE CORYDORAS) > > There's no use in using antibiotics when they may not be needed and they are > used too often or unnecessarily in aquaria so we are getting resistant > strains of bacteria in the hobby. And Salt is a heck of a lot cheaper too! > A 2 lb. box might be 50 cents and would more than treat your current > problem. > > Of course, never pour salt directly into a tank. Remove some tank water and > dilute the salt in that water and then slowly pour it back into the > tank avoiding the fish and filter intake. > > Applesnails can tolerate this 0.3% dosage as well, or you could move them > since "tolerate" doesn't mean they like being in salty water. > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795 > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795> > > You could also remove any plants as well and disinfect them. > http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445> > > I don't see either of your meds on this list: > http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html> > > Where are you finding these meds? I've never heard of them but Google says: > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid (is this what you found?) > http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/1 <http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/ 1> > 02424.asp Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfate > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid > Benefits: > Prevents & Controls Protozoan Diseases Prevents & Controls Bacterial > Diseases Prevents & Controls Fungal Diseases Helps Regenerate Damaged > Fins & Tails Active Ingredient Speeds Recovery Safe & Effective > Short-Term Treatment (3 to 7 days typically) Easy-To-UseGives Your > Betta Their Best Chance At A Rapid Recovery > > > > Aqua Pro Cure - http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm > <http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm> (is this what > you found? It's a good idea to post links to medications so other will be > able to look at what you are looking at) > > What diseases specifically does Aqua Pro-Cure treat? > > Aqua Pro-Cure is used for the treatment of a range of external > parasites such as Amlyoodinium (marine velvet), Brooklynella, Oodinium > (freshwater velvet or rust), Chilodonella, and gill flukes. It is also > used to treat external bacterial infections such as bacterial fin and tail rot. > (END SNIPS) > > IMO, Salt would be a better choice over either of those and the Aqua > Pro Cure doesn't seem applicable at all. The Revive stuff may be applicable... > if that is what you were looking at but when I searched Google for "neomycin > sulfate", I did find this page saying it was good for gram negative bacteria > (the third med down) http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html > <http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html> I also > found this page with a product called Revive. > http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm <http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm> > But further searching found the MSDS with > these ingredients: > Water >93% > Formaldehyde <2% > Methyl Alcohol <1% > Acriflavine Hydrochloride <2% > 9-Aminoacridine <2% > > I'd stick with Salt first. > > ARGGHHH.. after taking another look at your reply, I see you also have > corydoras. Which species? > > Regardless, much of what I've read/learned says that Corys do not tolerate > salt as well either. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> (SNIP - > Salt tolerance in freshwater fishes varies. The percomorph fishes, > like cichlids > and anabantoids, are derived from marine ancestors in the age of dinosaurs. > In general, they are more salt-tolerant than ostariophysii, the loaches and > minnows, characins and catfish that have descended from freshwater > ancestors. Years ago, William T. Innes reported that when a range of > freshwater fishes were exposed to salt baths, the first to die were > Corydoras. Those ostariophysan fishes that navigate by electric fields, like > knife fishes, gymnotid eels and the "elephant noses" or mormyrids, should > never be exposed to salt baths, according to the University of Florida. > Killifishes and livebearers are more tolerant of salt, on the whole. > But there are many exceptions to this very broad rule. Be aware of the > salt tolerance of your particular fish. END SNIP) > > But that is talking about a Salt Bath which is a much higher dose of > 35 teaspoons per gallon instead of just 3 teaspoons per gallon treatment that I > am talking about and nothing I have in my favorites is jumping out at > me about what level of salt corys can tolerate. You may want to move > them also... or move the fish (except the corydoras) to the 10G and > treat them > with the salt to 0.3% (three teaspoons per gallon) and the main 38G > tank with salt only to 0.1% (one teaspoon per gallon). Be ready to do > a 1/3 PWC > in the event your corys start showing signs of stress related to the salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris > > > Lenny, > > After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks like > columnaris is what I have. > > The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, tetras, > mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails. > > I see there are two products that are considered safe for > invertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these? > > Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any signs of > the disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday and was > stressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish are > exhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this batch die > and a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. Neither > one showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water test last > night and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, Nitrates > under 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to > 7.2 range. > > I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine tank but > it is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could move > my friend the snails there while I treat. > > Advice? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Alina, > > > > Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a > fungus but > > is actually bacterial. > > > > Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this > > site > > - > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease .> > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > .> > > html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > > > Or the direct link to Columnaris is - > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease .> > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > .> > > html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don't > have a > > TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. > > > > Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fish > disease, > > went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, so > the site > > lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the > > page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pages > from > > the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) so > you will > > always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while > > to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the > > WayBack > Archives > > slow server speeds. > > > > Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes" > > sections: > > > > Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to: > > Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent > > water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult > > to treat because it attacks intracellularly. > > > > Other Notes - > > > > Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, > > nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin > > infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish > especially > > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by > Dr. Barb. > > Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that > causes > > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank > > granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. > > Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with > > suspect animals. > > (END SNIP) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > Hi Jenny, > > > > Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially careful > because > > I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a > > last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank into > another tank. > > > > Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. > > > > Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. > > I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't > tryed salt > > for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > > > Jennie > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > > > > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, > > I > > > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for > > > everything. Worth a try? > > > > > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital > > > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing > > at > > > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > > > tools.:-) > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda > > like > > > it's > > > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much > > and > > > not > > > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems > > > normal. > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > 7:31:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > 8:44:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 10:04:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 10:18:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32177	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: ick problem

You do not need any medications to treat Ich, especially since some medications can cause additional stress to the fish and prolong the treatment or subject the fish to further infestation caused by this stress. Aquarisol contains copper salts, a toxic compound (by which it kills off Ich), albeit at a solution strength of a fraction of that lethal to fish. Never the less, it does add stress to the fish and if not used at the proper strength, after considering any absorption of it by free organic matter (or carbon in your filter) in your system may allow for some Ich to continue on more-stressed fish than others -- continuing the duration of the disease. The best and safest treatment for Ich by far, is to raise the temperature to at least 86 o (NO LOWER), and add 1 Tbs salt per 5 gallons, after doing a PWC as needed. This temperature should be maintained for an additional 3 days after seeing the last signs of any Ich on your fish -- which may take up to 10 days. Additional aeration is recommended, not only to increase the ability of the water to exchange gases at the surface to ensure maximum oxygen content at that temperature, but to make it as difficult as possible for the Ich trophonts to find and attach to a host (fish) after they're released from their cysts in the substrate. A temperature of 85 o will not cut it using this method, as it will only serve to make the Ich more virulent, with the fish being increasingly stressed, even though it will speed up its cycle. At 86 o and above, Ich loses its ability to reproduce and as its cycle (48 hours at 86 o) continues, fewer and fewer Ich trophonts will become available to re-infect the fish and they will die out for lack of being able to continue populating. As its cycle is 48 hours at this temperature, you need to wait until that 3rd day after seeing no further signs to ensure there are none left to hatch. Any fish having Ich on them will be able to reinfect your other fish; best to just treat the whole tank as described above so no Ich remains at the end. Do not use your plastic isolation chamber. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > aquari-sol, like i said it has seemed to work on my 10 gallon, and > all the infected fish in the 29 gallon except the two that seem to > be getting worse > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@> > wrote: > > > > Its important to know the stages of icks life cycle to help treat > it. when > > the white spots are on the fish then, they will burst into eggs, > which will > > fall into the gravel, then the eggs hatch and then the larva > attach to the > > fish and create white spots and the whole thing starts again. ICH > can only > > be killed easilly when in larva form, and this is where most > treatments get > > the ich. they tell you to raise the temp of the tank to 85? i > think it is > > because this increases the speed at which the ich bug goes through > its > > phases, and will clear it up faster. you basically need all your > white spots > > to go away on your fish and then allow for a few days to pass to > hopfully > > kill the larva. I personally use Aquasol for my treatment of ich. > I saved > > both my clown loaches from it and most of my other fish. I find it > to be > > nearly a cureall type medication that is suitible for even clown > loaches as > > they can be hard to medicate and keep alive as they can react > poorly to > > medications. Ive used aquasol for a small case of fin rot also. > > > > What medication have you been using? The other guys will probably > want to > > know that. > > > > --Dave > > > > On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Courtland Jacob > <courtland_jacob@ > > > wrote: > > > > > ok i am really putting out some posts, so i noticed some white > specs > > > about a week ago in my 10 and 29 gallon tanks, i am hoping that > it was > > > from temp problems i was having, the heaters i bought were a > piece of > > > crap because they did not keep the temps high enough or > consistantly > > > at a single temp. i have now fixed my temp issues and i have been > > > treating the ick since i noticed it, i am now on my 7th day of > > > treatment and i lost two fish early on in my 10 gallon because > they > > > got it really bad, most of my fich that were infected have > cleared up > > > except a few little spots on one fish and two fish that are > almost > > > completely covered, if these fish stay in the tank could the > others > > > become infected? can these fish be cured since it seems like > they have > > > only gotten worse? what should i do to help them and prevent my > other > > > fish from getting infected, i do not have a tank to move them > to, the > > > best i have is a plastic floating isolation chamber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32178	From: pam andress	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Every time I have to add salt to my tank I loose a few mystery snails, so if you have a place you can put them, I would. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 08:44:41 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris Since columnaris is bacterial (gram negative bacteria), an antibiotic wouldbe the right kind of medication, if you were sure that is what you have...but if your other fish are not showing signs, I would first use a salttreatment. Bring the salt level up to 0.3% (three level teaspoons per gallon) but bringit up at the dose of one level teaspoon per gallon, then twelve hours lateranother one teaspoon per gallon and then twelve hours later, the third onelevel teaspoon per gallon dose. This gives the fish and nitrifying bacteriaa chance to acclimate to the salt level. (SEE ONE OF MY LAST FEWPARAGRAPHS, STARTING WITH "ARGHHHH" THAT I WROTE AFTER I REALIZED YOU ALSOHAVE CORYDORAS)There's no use in using antibiotics when they may not be needed and they areused too often or unnecessarily in aquaria so we are getting resistantstrains of bacteria in the hobby. And Salt is a heck of a lot cheaper too!A 2 lb. box might be 50 cents and would more than treat your currentproblem.Of course, never pour salt directly into a tank. Remove some tank water anddilute the salt in that water and then slowly pour it back into the tankavoiding the fish and filter intake.Applesnails can tolerate this 0.3% dosage as well, or you could move themsince "tolerate" doesn't mean they like being in salty water.http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795You could also remove any plants as well and disinfect them.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445I don't see either of your meds on this list:http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.htmlWhere are you finding these meds? I've never heard of them but Google says:Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid (is this what you found?)http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/102424.asp Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfateHikari Betta Revive Health AidBenefits:Prevents & Controls Protozoan DiseasesPrevents & Controls Bacterial DiseasesPrevents & Controls Fungal DiseasesHelps Regenerate Damaged Fins & TailsActive Ingredient Speeds RecoverySafe & Effective Short-Term Treatment (3 to 7 days typically)Easy-To-UseGives Your Betta Their Best Chance At A Rapid RecoveryAqua Pro Cure - http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm (is this whatyou found? It's a good idea to post links to medications so other will beable to look at what you are looking at)What diseases specifically does Aqua Pro-Cure treat?Aqua Pro-Cure is used for the treatment of a range of external parasitessuch as Amlyoodinium (marine velvet), Brooklynella, Oodinium (freshwatervelvet or rust), Chilodonella, and gill flukes. It is also used to treatexternal bacterial infections such as bacterial fin and tail rot.(END SNIPS)IMO, Salt would be a better choice over either of those and the Aqua ProCure doesn't seem applicable at all. The Revive stuff may be applicable...if that is what you were looking at but when I searched Google for "neomycinsulfate", I did find this page saying it was good for gram negative bacteria(the third med down) http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html I alsofound this page with a product called Revive.http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm But further searching found the MSDS withthese ingredients: Water >93%Formaldehyde <2%Methyl Alcohol <1%Acriflavine Hydrochloride <2%9-Aminoacridine <2%I'd stick with Salt first.ARGGHHH.. after taking another look at your reply, I see you also havecorydoras. Which species? Regardless, much of what I've read/learned says that Corys do not toleratesalt as well either.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml (SNIP - Salttolerance in freshwater fishes varies. The percomorph fishes, like cichlidsand anabantoids, are derived from marine ancestors in the age of dinosaurs.In general, they are more salt-tolerant than ostariophysii, the loaches andminnows, characins and catfish that have descended from freshwaterancestors. Years ago, William T. Innes reported that when a range offreshwater fishes were exposed to salt baths, the first to die wereCorydoras. Those ostariophysan fishes that navigate by electric fields, likeknife fishes, gymnotid eels and the "elephant noses" or mormyrids, shouldnever be exposed to salt baths, according to the University of Florida.Killifishes and livebearers are more tolerant of salt, on the whole. Butthere are many exceptions to this very broad rule. Be aware of the salttolerance of your particular fish. END SNIP)But that is talking about a Salt Bath which is a much higher dose of 35teaspoons per gallon instead of just 3 teaspoons per gallon treatment that Iam talking about and nothing I have in my favorites is jumping out at meabout what level of salt corys can tolerate. You may want to move themalso... or move the fish (except the corydoras) to the 10G and treat themwith the salt to 0.3% (three teaspoons per gallon) and the main 38G tankwith salt only to 0.1% (one teaspoon per gallon). Be ready to do a 1/3 PWCin the event your corys start showing signs of stress related to the salt.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of AlinaSent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnarisLenny,After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks likecolumnaris is what I have.The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, tetras,mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails.I see there are two products that are considered safe forinvertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these?Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any signs ofthe disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday and wasstressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish areexhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this batch dieand a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. Neitherone showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water test lastnight and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, Nitratesunder 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to7.2 range.I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine tank butit is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could move myfriend the snails there while I treat.Advice?--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ,"Lenny V. aka GoldLenny"<GoldLenny@...> wrote:>> Alina,>> Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like afungus but> is actually bacterial.>> Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this site> ->http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.<http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.>> html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee>>> Or the direct link to Columnaris is ->http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.<http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.>> html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don'thave a> TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page.>> Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fishdisease,> went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, sothe site> lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the> page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pagesfrom> the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) soyou will> always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while> to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the WayBackArchives> slow server speeds.>> Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes"> sections:>> Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to:> Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent> water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult to> treat because it attacks intracellularly.>> Other Notes ->> Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia,> nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin> infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fishespecially> susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article byDr. Barb.> Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species thatcauses> human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank> granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr.> Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with> suspect animals.> (END SNIP)>> Lenny Vasbinder> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above> listed on the right side underArchives> - Year, Month and under Labels)>>> -----Original Message-----> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On> Behalf Of Alina> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?>> Hi Jenny,>> Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially carefulbecause> I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a> last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank intoanother tank.>> Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely.>> Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live.>> Alina>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ,> Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote:> >> > Hi,> > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus.> I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven'ttryed salt> for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas.> > Jennie> >> >> > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote:> >> > From: Alina <alambiet@>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Addendum:> >> > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact,> I> > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for> > everything. Worth a try?> >> > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital> > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing> at> > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my> > tools.:-)> >> > Alina> >> > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote:> > >> > >> > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda> like> > it's> > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?)> > >> > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much> and> > not> > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems> > normal.> > >> > > Alina> > >> > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.)> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> >>>>>>>> ________________________________>>> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.>> Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008> 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.>>>>>>> _____>> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean.>>> Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008> 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.>________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:31:44 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008Tested on: 10/30/2008 8:44:40 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32179	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: advice please?

by the way i did forget to mention that i was running a penguin 200 the one rated up to 50 galons on my 20 gallon tank becasue i wanted to build up the bio filter on it until i moved to a 55 gallon tank, and now with the 55 gallon tank i am running two filters including that penguin 200 so its not like a 20 gallon filter moving the water past the bio wheel which i'm sure is helping a lot. and the pet store nearby mentioned it, they were afraid to sell me new fish because they said that i might lose them, especially this really nice wild bread cichlid that is very expensive (but i love it and want it so bad)note though i did not talk to the store's owner who is more of a fish hobbiest than the other guy and knows much more about this stuff. i know it is hard to trust pet store employees but this guy has rarely steered me wrong and is usually on the safe side with advice and i tend to always double check it against the other local stores and with this group --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oh.. I meant to ask.. who told you that you would have an ammonia spike > because you added new water to the tank? Did they indicate why? > > There could be a very small level of ammonia released if your tap water is > treated with chloramines when you dechlor the water and the chlorine is > broken down which frees up a small amount of ammonia... but the ammonia > level in chloramine is usually only 0.5ppm so even if doing the equivalent > of a 50% PWC (or adding equal amounts of new water with old tank water), > that would only increase the ammonia level to .025ppm... if nothing else was > being done on the tank... but since you had a cycled filter system running > on the tank, it would have been almost instantly cycled that small amount of > ammonia into nitrates so it wouldn't be much different than the ammonia > level your fish might experience during their constant gill function and > peeing in the pool... oops.. meant tank. LOL > > If an uncycled tank was being filled with chloramine dechlored water, then > the 0.5ppm of ammonia could be a problem if the water has a high pH or high > temp but in your case, even the possible low levels of ammonia being added > by chloramine dechlored water would be handled by the biofiltration since > your filter was already fully cycled. > > As I mentioned in my previous reply, if I was going to have African Cichlids > or any other hard water, high pH or high temp fish, I would use SeaChem's > Prime as my main tap water dechlor product to make sure that any ammonia is > made non-toxic since even low levels of ammonia become toxic in high pH and > high temp tanks. > > This article and calculator explains more. > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] advice please? > > ok so i started with a 20 gallon, once i got it cycled and established i > used some gravel and water from it to start a 10 gallon tank and then a 29 > gallon tank, which only took about a week or two to get those cycled. i now > have bought a 55 gal tank, i put in new graveland a few new decorations, but > then i took all the water, gravel and decor from the established 20 gallon > and put it in the 50 gallon, then over the net day i slowly added fresh > water a few gallons at a time until the tank was full, it has been running > about a week now, the fish are doing well, ammonia and nitrites are 0ppm and > my nitrates are about > 7.5 ppm and ph is 8.2, let me now mention it is an african cichlid tank. i > was told that the tank will show a spike in ammonia since i added so much > new water, but i have been keeping a close eye on it and nothing so far, > where my other seeded tanks had a early spike. so should i still expect to > see a spike? or does it look like my bio filter stood up to the move and is > still doing it's job properly? how long should i wait to add more fish? and > any other info i might need to know would be helpful, thanks for your help > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 12:14:12 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 4:34:01 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32180	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Aline, I had assumed these meds, Aqua Pro Cure and Revive (both made by FishVet, Inc.), were what you already had on hand; I now see you don't. I was about to mention that whatever you use Revive for, it is very light-sensitive and you should not have your aquarium lights on when using this. However, since you do not have either of these, and especially as Lenny finds that Revive contains Formaldahyde, Methyl Alchohol and Acriflavin Hydrochloride I would highly recommend your not even consider buying it as this IS NOT snail-safe as you had thought. Neither, do not consider Binox for use with your snails, as this contains a chemical antibiotic (Nitrofurazone) -- ordinarily an excellent medication, by not necessarily for use with invertebrates. Do not bother to look for Aquatronics' Kanacyn either, as this firm unfortunately went out of business about two years ago -- a real shame, as they had quite the comprehensive line of fish medications. For this reason, I suggested the use of KanaPlex (by SeaChem), still being the same medication Kanamycin. Ordinarily, I would not recommend medicating fish arbitrarily, as I mentioned before, and as Lenny brings out, but I feel with this aggressive disease looming in your water column, that such action in helping prevent this pathogen from gaining a foothold would far outweigh any negative results of possibly using the medications unnecessarily. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > This is where I found the names of those two products. I too, had > never heard of or seen them before, so that's why I ask: > > http://www.fishvet.com/columnaris.htm > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Since columnaris is bacterial (gram negative bacteria), an > antibiotic would > > be the right kind of medication, if you were sure that is what you > have... > > but if your other fish are not showing signs, I would first use a salt > > treatment. > > > > Bring the salt level up to 0.3% (three level teaspoons per gallon) > but bring > > it up at the dose of one level teaspoon per gallon, then twelve > hours later > > another one teaspoon per gallon and then twelve hours later, the > third one > > level teaspoon per gallon dose. This gives the fish and nitrifying > bacteria > > a chance to acclimate to the salt level. (SEE ONE OF MY LAST FEW > > PARAGRAPHS, STARTING WITH "ARGHHHH" THAT I WROTE AFTER I REALIZED > YOU ALSO > > HAVE CORYDORAS) > > > > There's no use in using antibiotics when they may not be needed and > they are > > used too often or unnecessarily in aquaria so we are getting resistant > > strains of bacteria in the hobby. And Salt is a heck of a lot > cheaper too! > > A 2 lb. box might be 50 cents and would more than treat your current > > problem. > > > > Of course, never pour salt directly into a tank. Remove some tank > water and > > dilute the salt in that water and then slowly pour it back into the tank > > avoiding the fish and filter intake. > > > > Applesnails can tolerate this 0.3% dosage as well, or you could move > them > > since "tolerate" doesn't mean they like being in salty water. > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795 > > > > You could also remove any plants as well and disinfect them. > > http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > > > > I don't see either of your meds on this list: > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html > > > > Where are you finding these meds? I've never heard of them but > Google says: > > > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid (is this what you found?) > > > http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;- fungus/1 > > 02424.asp Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfate > > > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid > > Benefits: > > Prevents & Controls Protozoan Diseases > > Prevents & Controls Bacterial Diseases > > Prevents & Controls Fungal Diseases > > Helps Regenerate Damaged Fins & Tails > > Active Ingredient Speeds Recovery > > Safe & Effective Short-Term Treatment (3 to 7 days typically) > > Easy-To-UseGives Your Betta Their Best Chance At A Rapid Recovery > > > > > > > > Aqua Pro Cure - http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm (is > this what > > you found? It's a good idea to post links to medications so other > will be > > able to look at what you are looking at) > > > > What diseases specifically does Aqua Pro-Cure treat? > > > > Aqua Pro-Cure is used for the treatment of a range of external parasites > > such as Amlyoodinium (marine velvet), Brooklynella, Oodinium (freshwater > > velvet or rust), Chilodonella, and gill flukes. It is also used to treat > > external bacterial infections such as bacterial fin and tail rot. > > (END SNIPS) > > > > IMO, Salt would be a better choice over either of those and the Aqua Pro > > Cure doesn't seem applicable at all. The Revive stuff may be > applicable... > > if that is what you were looking at but when I searched Google for > "neomycin > > sulfate", I did find this page saying it was good for gram negative > bacteria > > (the third med down) http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html > I also > > found this page with a product called Revive. > > http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm But further searching found the > MSDS with > > these ingredients: > > Water >93% > > Formaldehyde <2% > > Methyl Alcohol <1% > > Acriflavine Hydrochloride <2% > > 9-Aminoacridine <2% > > > > I'd stick with Salt first. > > > > ARGGHHH.. after taking another look at your reply, I see you also have > > corydoras. Which species? > > > > Regardless, much of what I've read/learned says that Corys do not > tolerate > > salt as well either. > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml (SNIP - Salt > > tolerance in freshwater fishes varies. The percomorph fishes, like > cichlids > > and anabantoids, are derived from marine ancestors in the age of > dinosaurs. > > In general, they are more salt-tolerant than ostariophysii, the > loaches and > > minnows, characins and catfish that have descended from freshwater > > ancestors. Years ago, William T. Innes reported that when a range of > > freshwater fishes were exposed to salt baths, the first to die were > > Corydoras. Those ostariophysan fishes that navigate by electric > fields, like > > knife fishes, gymnotid eels and the "elephant noses" or mormyrids, > should > > never be exposed to salt baths, according to the University of Florida. > > Killifishes and livebearers are more tolerant of salt, on the whole. But > > there are many exceptions to this very broad rule. Be aware of the salt > > tolerance of your particular fish. END SNIP) > > > > But that is talking about a Salt Bath which is a much higher dose of 35 > > teaspoons per gallon instead of just 3 teaspoons per gallon > treatment that I > > am talking about and nothing I have in my favorites is jumping out at me > > about what level of salt corys can tolerate. You may want to move them > > also... or move the fish (except the corydoras) to the 10G and treat > them > > with the salt to 0.3% (three teaspoons per gallon) and the main 38G tank > > with salt only to 0.1% (one teaspoon per gallon). Be ready to do a > 1/3 PWC > > in the event your corys start showing signs of stress related to the > salt. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks like > > columnaris is what I have. > > > > The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, > tetras, > > mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails. > > > > I see there are two products that are considered safe for > > invertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these? > > > > Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any > signs of > > the disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday and was > > stressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish are > > exhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this > batch die > > and a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. > Neither > > one showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water > test last > > night and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, > Nitrates > > under 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to > > 7.2 range. > > > > I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine > tank but > > it is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could move my > > friend the snails there while I treat. > > > > Advice? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Alina, > > > > > > Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a > > fungus but > > > is actually bacterial. > > > > > > Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this site > > > - > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di sease. > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/d isease > > .> > > > html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > > > > Or the direct link to Columnaris is - > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di sease. > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/d isease > > .> > > > html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don't > > have a > > > TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. > > > > > > Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fish > > disease, > > > went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, so > > the site > > > lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the > > > page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pages > > from > > > the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) so > > you will > > > always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while > > > to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the WayBack > > Archives > > > slow server speeds. > > > > > > Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes" > > > sections: > > > > > > Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to: > > > Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent > > > water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult to > > > treat because it attacks intracellularly. > > > > > > Other Notes - > > > > > > Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, > > > nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin > > > infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish > > especially > > > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by > > Dr. Barb. > > > Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that > > causes > > > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank > > > granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. > > > Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with > > > suspect animals. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > > > Hi Jenny, > > > > > > Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially careful > > because > > > I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a > > > last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank into > > another tank. > > > > > > Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. > > > > > > Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. > > > I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't > > tryed salt > > > for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > > > > Jennie > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > > > > > > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, > > > I > > > > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for > > > > everything. Worth a try? > > > > > > > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital > > > > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing > > > at > > > > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > > > > tools.:-) > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda > > > like > > > > it's > > > > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > > > > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much > > > and > > > > not > > > > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems > > > > normal. > > > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > > 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > > 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > > Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:31:44 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > > Tested on: 10/30/2008 8:44:40 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32181	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: advice please?

I realize you've fishless cycled a couple of tanks using existing cycled media to jump start the fishless cycling but I'm not sure if I'm missing something now or not. Did you use ammonia to fishless cycle? Since you have all of the fish, gravel, decorations, etc., in the new 55G tank, then it will only be cycled for the current bioload. As soon as you add more fish, the tank will experience a slight mini-cycle or major-cycle if you add too many fish at once. What I would do is get the new fish and set up one of the empty tanks as a quarantine tank for the new fish. Then when you bring it home, just add some of the filter media from one of the filters on the 55G to the filter on the Q-tank and that will basically instantly cycle the Q-tank... or if you were planning on moving one of the smaller filter systems to the Q-tank, that would certainly make it instantly cycled but then you might have a mini-cycle on the 55G when you remove some of the filter media from that tank so the SeaChem Prime might be a good option to make sure any ammonia spike does not cause too many problems... as I explained in an earlier reply. Also make sure you test your water after you remove the filter system and do PWC's as needed, along with the Prime to keep the ammonia at safe levels. For the new fish, since you say it's expensive, just make sure you know what the water parameters (pH, GH, KH, temp., etc.) are at the fish store and be sure your water parameters are nearly identical... and maybe even get them to give you 5-10G of water so you can set up the Q-tank with the same water it's used to and then you can add a little of your water each day doing PWC's to acclimate it to your water. I wouldn't normally ask a fish store for their water but if the fish is really expensive and it's doing OK in their water, then I would probably ask for their water to go with the fish. The least amount of stressors, the better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: advice please? by the way i did forget to mention that i was running a penguin 200 the one rated up to 50 galons on my 20 gallon tank becasue i wanted to build up the bio filter on it until i moved to a 55 gallon tank, and now with the 55 gallon tank i am running two filters including that penguin 200 so its not like a 20 gallon filter moving the water past the bio wheel which i'm sure is helping a lot. and the pet store nearby mentioned it, they were afraid to sell me new fish because they said that i might lose them, especially this really nice wild bread cichlid that is very expensive (but i love it and want it so bad)note though i did not talk to the store's owner who is more of a fish hobbiest than the other guy and knows much more about this stuff. i know it is hard to trust pet store employees but this guy has rarely steered me wrong and is usually on the safe side with advice and i tend to always double check it against the other local stores and with this group --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oh.. I meant to ask.. who told you that you would have an ammonia spike > because you added new water to the tank? Did they indicate why? > > There could be a very small level of ammonia released if your tap water is > treated with chloramines when you dechlor the water and the chlorine is > broken down which frees up a small amount of ammonia... but the ammonia > level in chloramine is usually only 0.5ppm so even if doing the equivalent > of a 50% PWC (or adding equal amounts of new water with old tank water), > that would only increase the ammonia level to .025ppm... if nothing else was > being done on the tank... but since you had a cycled filter system running > on the tank, it would have been almost instantly cycled that small amount of > ammonia into nitrates so it wouldn't be much different than the ammonia > level your fish might experience during their constant gill function and > peeing in the pool... oops.. meant tank. LOL > > If an uncycled tank was being filled with chloramine dechlored water, then > the 0.5ppm of ammonia could be a problem if the water has a high pH or high > temp but in your case, even the possible low levels of ammonia being added > by chloramine dechlored water would be handled by the biofiltration since > your filter was already fully cycled. > > As I mentioned in my previous reply, if I was going to have African Cichlids > or any other hard water, high pH or high temp fish, I would use SeaChem's > Prime as my main tap water dechlor product to make sure that any ammonia is > made non-toxic since even low levels of ammonia become toxic in high pH and > high temp tanks. > > This article and calculator explains more. > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] advice please? > > ok so i started with a 20 gallon, once i got it cycled and established i > used some gravel and water from it to start a 10 gallon tank and then a 29 > gallon tank, which only took about a week or two to get those cycled. i now > have bought a 55 gal tank, i put in new graveland a few new decorations, but > then i took all the water, gravel and decor from the established 20 gallon > and put it in the 50 gallon, then over the net day i slowly added fresh > water a few gallons at a time until the tank was full, it has been running > about a week now, the fish are doing well, ammonia and nitrites are 0ppm and > my nitrates are about > 7.5 ppm and ph is 8.2, let me now mention it is an african cichlid tank. i > was told that the tank will show a spike in ammonia since i added so much > new water, but i have been keeping a close eye on it and nothing so far, > where my other seeded tanks had a early spike. so should i still expect to > see a spike? or does it look like my bio filter stood up to the move and is > still doing it's job properly? how long should i wait to add more fish? and > any other info i might need to know would be helpful, thanks for your help > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > 12:14:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > 4:34:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 10:54:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 11:25:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32182	From: Cindy Gilbert	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Apple Snails

Thank you to all who answered about the apple snails. I didn't feel like spending the money to ship them. So I did find a group locally who wanted them to feed them to their turtles. Just got too overwhelming... Cindy www.ideasdestiny.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32183	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Thanks, Pam. I've become so attached to them I would be bummed if anything happened. (Can't believe I've become attached to my fish and snails. Didn't think that would happen!) So I think whatever I do, I'll put them in my 10 gal. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Every time I have to add salt to my tank I loose a few mystery snails, so if you have a place you can put them, I would. > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@...: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 08:44:41 -0500Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris > > > > Since columnaris is bacterial (gram negative bacteria), an antibiotic wouldbe the right kind of medication, if you were sure that is what you have...but if your other fish are not showing signs, I would first use a salttreatment. Bring the salt level up to 0.3% (three level teaspoons per gallon) but bringit up at the dose of one level teaspoon per gallon, then twelve hours lateranother one teaspoon per gallon and then twelve hours later, the third onelevel teaspoon per gallon dose. This gives the fish and nitrifying bacteriaa chance to acclimate to the salt level. (SEE ONE OF MY LAST FEWPARAGRAPHS, STARTING WITH "ARGHHHH" THAT I WROTE AFTER I REALIZED YOU ALSOHAVE CORYDORAS)There's no use in using antibiotics when they may not be needed and they areused too often or unnecessarily in aquaria so we are getting resistantstrains of bacteria in the hobby. And Salt is a heck of a lot cheaper too!A 2 lb. box might be 50 cents and would more than treat your currentproblem.Of course, never pour salt directly into a tank. Remove some tank water anddilute the salt in that water and then slowly pour it back into the tankavoiding the fish and filter intake.Applesnails can tolerate this 0.3% dosage as well, or you could move themsince "tolerate" doesn't mean they like being in salty water.http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795You could also remove any plants as well and disinfect them.http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445I don't see either of your meds on this list:http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.htmlWhere are you finding these meds? I've never heard of them but Google says:Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid (is this what you found?)http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/102424.asp Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfateHikari Betta Revive Health AidBenefits:Prevents & Controls Protozoan DiseasesPrevents & Controls Bacterial DiseasesPrevents & Controls Fungal DiseasesHelps Regenerate Damaged Fins & TailsActive Ingredient Speeds RecoverySafe & Effective Short-Term Treatment (3 to 7 days typically)Easy-To-UseGives Your Betta Their Best Chance At A Rapid RecoveryAqua Pro Cure - http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm (is this whatyou found? It's a good idea to post links to medications so other will beable to look at what you are looking at)What diseases specifically does Aqua Pro-Cure treat?Aqua Pro-Cure is used for the treatment of a range of external parasitessuch as Amlyoodinium (marine velvet), Brooklynella, Oodinium (freshwatervelvet or rust), Chilodonella, and gill flukes. It is also used to treatexternal bacterial infections such as bacterial fin and tail rot.(END SNIPS)IMO, Salt would be a better choice over either of those and the Aqua ProCure doesn't seem applicable at all. The Revive stuff may be applicable...if that is what you were looking at but when I searched Google for "neomycinsulfate", I did find this page saying it was good for gram negative bacteria(the third med down) http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html I alsofound this page with a product called Revive.http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm But further searching found the MSDS withthese ingredients: Water >93%Formaldehyde <2%Methyl Alcohol <1%Acriflavine Hydrochloride <2%9-Aminoacridine <2%I'd stick with Salt first.ARGGHHH.. after taking another look at your reply, I see you also havecorydoras. Which species? Regardless, much of what I've read/learned says that Corys do not toleratesalt as well either.http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml (SNIP - Salttolerance in freshwater fishes varies. The percomorph fishes, like cichlidsand anabantoids, are derived from marine ancestors in the age of dinosaurs.In general, they are more salt-tolerant than ostariophysii, the loaches andminnows, characins and catfish that have descended from freshwaterancestors. Years ago, William T. Innes reported that when a range offreshwater fishes were exposed to salt baths, the first to die wereCorydoras. Those ostariophysan fishes that navigate by electric fields, likeknife fishes, gymnotid eels and the "elephant noses" or mormyrids, shouldnever be exposed to salt baths, according to the University of Florida.Killifishes and livebearers are more tolerant of salt, on the whole. Butthere are many exceptions to this very broad rule. Be aware of the salttolerance of your particular fish. END SNIP)But that is talking about a Salt Bath which is a much higher dose of 35teaspoons per gallon instead of just 3 teaspoons per gallon treatment that Iam talking about and nothing I have in my favorites is jumping out at meabout what level of salt corys can tolerate. You may want to move themalso... or move the fish (except the corydoras) to the 10G and treat themwith the salt to 0.3% (three teaspoons per gallon) and the main 38G tankwith salt only to 0.1% (one teaspoon per gallon). Be ready to do a 1/3 PWCin the event your corys start showing signs of stress related to the salt.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of AlinaSent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:10 AMTo: AquaticLife@...: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnarisLenny,After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks likecolumnaris is what I have.The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, tetras,mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails.I see there are two products that are considered safe forinvertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these?Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any signs ofthe disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday and wasstressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish areexhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this batch dieand a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. Neitherone showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water test lastnight and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, Nitratesunder 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to7.2 range.I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine tank butit is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could move myfriend the snails there while I treat.Advice?--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ,"Lenny V. aka GoldLenny"<GoldLenny@> wrote:>> Alina,>> Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like afungus but> is actually bacterial.>> Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this site> ->http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.<http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.>> html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee>>> Or the direct link to Columnaris is ->http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.<http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.>> html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don'thave a> TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page.>> Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fishdisease,> went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, sothe site> lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the> page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pagesfrom> the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) soyou will> always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while> to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the WayBackArchives> slow server speeds.>> Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes"> sections:>> Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to:> Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent> water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult to> treat because it attacks intracellularly.>> Other Notes ->> Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia,> nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin> infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fishespecially> susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article byDr. Barb.> Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species thatcauses> human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank> granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr.> Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with> suspect animals.> (END SNIP)>> Lenny Vasbinder> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above> listed on the right side underArchives> - Year, Month and under Labels)>>> -----Original Message-----> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]On> Behalf Of Alina> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?>> Hi Jenny,>> Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially carefulbecause> I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a> last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank intoanother tank.>> Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely.>> Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live.>> Alina>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ,> Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote:> >> > Hi,> > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus.> I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven'ttryed salt> for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas.> > Jennie> >> >> > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote:> >> > From: Alina <alambiet@>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Addendum:> >> > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact,> I> > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for> > everything. Worth a try?> >> > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital> > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing> at> > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my> > tools.:-)> >> > Alina> >> > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote:> > >> > >> > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda> like> > it's> > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?)> > >> > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much> and> > not> > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems> > normal.> > >> > > Alina> > >> > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.)> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> >>>>>>>> ________________________________>>> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean.>> Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008> 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.>>>>>>> _____>> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean.>>> Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008> 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.>________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:31:44 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008Tested on: 10/30/2008 8:44:40 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32184	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: My Mystery Fish

If you'd like to find out more about this fish, just do a search for Cleithracara maronii (the only species in this new Genus), recently (1989) re-described by Dr. Sven Kullander and Dr. Han Nijssen. Before this it was known as Aequidens maronii since 1881, when Steindachner described it. You should be able to get info using either name. Its a South American fish that will do well in the same conditions as your Blue Rams, originally found in the Maroni River of Venezuela -- its name sake. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> wrote: > > Awesome thank you ray. I am glad hes only getting as big as i expected him > to otherwise. Hes a fast grower. I don't think my blue ram has put on a > millimeter yet. ive only had them for about a month though. > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > wrote: > > > Dave, This is a Keyhole Cichlid -- its a nice peaceful Cichlid and > > gets around 3" long. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, "David > > Keymel" <azzuron@> wrote: > > > > > > just figured i would try you guys first see if anyone might just off > > hand > > > recognize this little guy. I thought when i first got him i was > > getting a > > > german blue ram, but it turns out he isn't, at least i dont see how > > he could > > > be hes got no color like the other does. > > > > > > http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2580/mysteryfishfh2.jpg > > > > > > Let me know what you guys think if you have any ideas. thanks! > > > > > > --Dave > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32185	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: My Mystery Fish

Awesome thanks Ray. On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Raymond Wetzel < sevenspringss@...> wrote: > If you'd like to find out more about this fish, just do a search for > Cleithracara maronii (the only species in this new Genus), recently > (1989) re-described by Dr. Sven Kullander and Dr. Han Nijssen. > Before this it was known as Aequidens maronii since 1881, when > Steindachner described it. You should be able to get info using > either name. Its a South American fish that will do well in the same > conditions as your Blue Rams, originally found in the Maroni River of > Venezuela -- its name sake. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "David > Keymel" <azzuron@...> > wrote: > > > > Awesome thank you ray. I am glad hes only getting as big as i > expected him > > to otherwise. Hes a fast grower. I don't think my blue ram has put > on a > > millimeter yet. ive only had them for about a month though. > > > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > > wrote: > > > > > Dave, This is a Keyhole Cichlid -- its a nice peaceful Cichlid > and > > > gets around 3" long. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, "David > > > Keymel" <azzuron@> wrote: > > > > > > > > just figured i would try you guys first see if anyone might > just off > > > hand > > > > recognize this little guy. I thought when i first got him i was > > > getting a > > > > german blue ram, but it turns out he isn't, at least i dont see > how > > > he could > > > > be hes got no color like the other does. > > > > > > > > http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2580/mysteryfishfh2.jpg > > > > > > > > Let me know what you guys think if you have any ideas. thanks! > > > > > > > > --Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32186	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Will do. And the Corys..ok with the treatments? Now, I've never had to treat my tank before so I may have to figure out how to save my nitrifying bacteria. Thanks alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, now that Ray has chimed in suggesting the antibiotics, maybe you > should go ahead and do that... although, like Ray said, I'm not sure the two > meds you inquired about would be my first choices. Do you have a PetsMart > of other big pet store or LFS in your area where you could get meds? If you > have a PetsMart, go to their website first and print out their online > pricing as the local stores will match the price. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris > > Gosh, Lenny. My chest is closing up just reading your posting. Get me a > paper bag!! This is becoming complicated. I'm sure I'll be more confident as > I get more experience. > > I'd frankly prefer to try salt first. I'm with you on the antibiotics. > > My Cory is a Cory albino catfish (Armored catfish). Here's a YouTube video > of exactly what I have in my tank. Only one. He's new too. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCqRO9VxkA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCqRO9VxkA> > > I think I can most easily move my snails to the 10 gallon, which is mid > cycle. I'm worried though, there isn't enough algae and stuff. But I'll just > feed them and do water changes. I think that's probably best. > > So how many days do I keep up the salt regimen? > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Since columnaris is bacterial (gram negative bacteria), an > antibiotic would > > be the right kind of medication, if you were sure that is what you > have... > > but if your other fish are not showing signs, I would first use a salt > > treatment. > > > > Bring the salt level up to 0.3% (three level teaspoons per gallon) > but bring > > it up at the dose of one level teaspoon per gallon, then twelve > hours later > > another one teaspoon per gallon and then twelve hours later, the > third one > > level teaspoon per gallon dose. This gives the fish and nitrifying > bacteria > > a chance to acclimate to the salt level. (SEE ONE OF MY LAST FEW > > PARAGRAPHS, STARTING WITH "ARGHHHH" THAT I WROTE AFTER I REALIZED > YOU ALSO > > HAVE CORYDORAS) > > > > There's no use in using antibiotics when they may not be needed and > they are > > used too often or unnecessarily in aquaria so we are getting resistant > > strains of bacteria in the hobby. And Salt is a heck of a lot > cheaper too! > > A 2 lb. box might be 50 cents and would more than treat your current > > problem. > > > > Of course, never pour salt directly into a tank. Remove some tank > water and > > dilute the salt in that water and then slowly pour it back into the > > tank avoiding the fish and filter intake. > > > > Applesnails can tolerate this 0.3% dosage as well, or you could move > them > > since "tolerate" doesn't mean they like being in salty water. > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795> > > > > You could also remove any plants as well and disinfect them. > > http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445> > > > > I don't see either of your meds on this list: > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html> > > > > Where are you finding these meds? I've never heard of them but > Google says: > > > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid (is this what you found?) > > > http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/1 > <http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/ > 1> > > 02424.asp Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfate > > > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid > > Benefits: > > Prevents & Controls Protozoan Diseases Prevents & Controls Bacterial > > Diseases Prevents & Controls Fungal Diseases Helps Regenerate Damaged > > Fins & Tails Active Ingredient Speeds Recovery Safe & Effective > > Short-Term Treatment (3 to 7 days typically) Easy-To-UseGives Your > > Betta Their Best Chance At A Rapid Recovery > > > > > > > > Aqua Pro Cure - http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm > > <http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm> (is > this what > > you found? It's a good idea to post links to medications so other > will be > > able to look at what you are looking at) > > > > What diseases specifically does Aqua Pro-Cure treat? > > > > Aqua Pro-Cure is used for the treatment of a range of external > > parasites such as Amlyoodinium (marine velvet), Brooklynella, Oodinium > > (freshwater velvet or rust), Chilodonella, and gill flukes. It is also > > used to treat external bacterial infections such as bacterial fin and tail > rot. > > (END SNIPS) > > > > IMO, Salt would be a better choice over either of those and the Aqua > > Pro Cure doesn't seem applicable at all. The Revive stuff may be > applicable... > > if that is what you were looking at but when I searched Google for > "neomycin > > sulfate", I did find this page saying it was good for gram negative > bacteria > > (the third med down) http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html > > <http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html> > I also > > found this page with a product called Revive. > > http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm <http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm> > > But further searching found the > MSDS with > > these ingredients: > > Water >93% > > Formaldehyde <2% > > Methyl Alcohol <1% > > Acriflavine Hydrochloride <2% > > 9-Aminoacridine <2% > > > > I'd stick with Salt first. > > > > ARGGHHH.. after taking another look at your reply, I see you also have > > corydoras. Which species? > > > > Regardless, much of what I've read/learned says that Corys do not > tolerate > > salt as well either. > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> (SNIP - > > Salt tolerance in freshwater fishes varies. The percomorph fishes, > > like > cichlids > > and anabantoids, are derived from marine ancestors in the age of > dinosaurs. > > In general, they are more salt-tolerant than ostariophysii, the > loaches and > > minnows, characins and catfish that have descended from freshwater > > ancestors. Years ago, William T. Innes reported that when a range of > > freshwater fishes were exposed to salt baths, the first to die were > > Corydoras. Those ostariophysan fishes that navigate by electric > fields, like > > knife fishes, gymnotid eels and the "elephant noses" or mormyrids, > should > > never be exposed to salt baths, according to the University of Florida. > > Killifishes and livebearers are more tolerant of salt, on the whole. > > But there are many exceptions to this very broad rule. Be aware of the > > salt tolerance of your particular fish. END SNIP) > > > > But that is talking about a Salt Bath which is a much higher dose of > > 35 teaspoons per gallon instead of just 3 teaspoons per gallon > treatment that I > > am talking about and nothing I have in my favorites is jumping out at > > me about what level of salt corys can tolerate. You may want to move > > them also... or move the fish (except the corydoras) to the 10G and > > treat > them > > with the salt to 0.3% (three teaspoons per gallon) and the main 38G > > tank with salt only to 0.1% (one teaspoon per gallon). Be ready to do > > a > 1/3 PWC > > in the event your corys start showing signs of stress related to the > salt. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks like > > columnaris is what I have. > > > > The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, > tetras, > > mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails. > > > > I see there are two products that are considered safe for > > invertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these? > > > > Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any > signs of > > the disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday and was > > stressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish are > > exhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this > batch die > > and a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. > Neither > > one showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water > test last > > night and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, > Nitrates > > under 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to > > 7.2 range. > > > > I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine > tank but > > it is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could move > > my friend the snails there while I treat. > > > > Advice? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Alina, > > > > > > Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a > > fungus but > > > is actually bacterial. > > > > > > Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this > > > site > > > - > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > .> > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > > > .> > > > html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > > > > > Or the direct link to Columnaris is - > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > .> > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > > > .> > > > html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don't > > have a > > > TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. > > > > > > Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about fish > > disease, > > > went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, so > > the site > > > lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of the > > > page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the pages > > from > > > the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) so > > you will > > > always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a while > > > to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the > > > WayBack > > Archives > > > slow server speeds. > > > > > > Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes" > > > sections: > > > > > > Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to: > > > Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent > > > water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult > > > to treat because it attacks intracellularly. > > > > > > Other Notes - > > > > > > Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, > > > nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin > > > infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish > > especially > > > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by > > Dr. Barb. > > > Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that > > causes > > > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank > > > granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. > > > Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with > > > suspect animals. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > > > Hi Jenny, > > > > > > Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially careful > > because > > > I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be a > > > last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank into > > another tank. > > > > > > Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. > > > > > > Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. > > > I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't > > tryed salt > > > for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > > > > Jennie > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > > > > > > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true fact, > > > I > > > > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths for > > > > everything. Worth a try? > > > > > > > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my hospital > > > > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no fussing > > > at > > > > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > > > > tools.:-) > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda > > > like > > > > it's > > > > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > > > > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming much > > > and > > > > not > > > > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all systems > > > > normal. > > > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > > 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > > 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > > 7:31:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > > 8:44:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 10:04:12 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 10:18:35 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32187	From: Alina	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Thank you you have been so helpful! Alina > > http://www.fishvet.com/columnaris.htm > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Since columnaris is bacterial (gram negative bacteria), an > > antibiotic would > > > be the right kind of medication, if you were sure that is what you > > have... > > > but if your other fish are not showing signs, I would first use a > salt > > > treatment. > > > > > > Bring the salt level up to 0.3% (three level teaspoons per gallon) > > but bring > > > it up at the dose of one level teaspoon per gallon, then twelve > > hours later > > > another one teaspoon per gallon and then twelve hours later, the > > third one > > > level teaspoon per gallon dose. This gives the fish and > nitrifying > > bacteria > > > a chance to acclimate to the salt level. (SEE ONE OF MY LAST FEW > > > PARAGRAPHS, STARTING WITH "ARGHHHH" THAT I WROTE AFTER I REALIZED > > YOU ALSO > > > HAVE CORYDORAS) > > > > > > There's no use in using antibiotics when they may not be needed > and > > they are > > > used too often or unnecessarily in aquaria so we are getting > resistant > > > strains of bacteria in the hobby. And Salt is a heck of a lot > > cheaper too! > > > A 2 lb. box might be 50 cents and would more than treat your > current > > > problem. > > > > > > Of course, never pour salt directly into a tank. Remove some tank > > water and > > > dilute the salt in that water and then slowly pour it back into > the tank > > > avoiding the fish and filter intake. > > > > > > Applesnails can tolerate this 0.3% dosage as well, or you could > move > > them > > > since "tolerate" doesn't mean they like being in salty water. > > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795 > > > > > > You could also remove any plants as well and disinfect them. > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > > > > > > I don't see either of your meds on this list: > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html > > > > > > Where are you finding these meds? I've never heard of them but > > Google says: > > > > > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid (is this what you found?) > > > > > http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;- > fungus/1 > > > 02424.asp Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfate > > > > > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid > > > Benefits: > > > Prevents & Controls Protozoan Diseases > > > Prevents & Controls Bacterial Diseases > > > Prevents & Controls Fungal Diseases > > > Helps Regenerate Damaged Fins & Tails > > > Active Ingredient Speeds Recovery > > > Safe & Effective Short-Term Treatment (3 to 7 days typically) > > > Easy-To-UseGives Your Betta Their Best Chance At A Rapid Recovery > > > > > > > > > > > > Aqua Pro Cure - http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm (is > > this what > > > you found? It's a good idea to post links to medications so other > > will be > > > able to look at what you are looking at) > > > > > > What diseases specifically does Aqua Pro-Cure treat? > > > > > > Aqua Pro-Cure is used for the treatment of a range of external > parasites > > > such as Amlyoodinium (marine velvet), Brooklynella, Oodinium > (freshwater > > > velvet or rust), Chilodonella, and gill flukes. It is also used > to treat > > > external bacterial infections such as bacterial fin and tail rot. > > > (END SNIPS) > > > > > > IMO, Salt would be a better choice over either of those and the > Aqua Pro > > > Cure doesn't seem applicable at all. The Revive stuff may be > > applicable... > > > if that is what you were looking at but when I searched Google for > > "neomycin > > > sulfate", I did find this page saying it was good for gram > negative > > bacteria > > > (the third med down) > http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html > > I also > > > found this page with a product called Revive. > > > http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm But further searching found the > > MSDS with > > > these ingredients: > > > Water >93% > > > Formaldehyde <2% > > > Methyl Alcohol <1% > > > Acriflavine Hydrochloride <2% > > > 9-Aminoacridine <2% > > > > > > I'd stick with Salt first. > > > > > > ARGGHHH.. after taking another look at your reply, I see you also > have > > > corydoras. Which species? > > > > > > Regardless, much of what I've read/learned says that Corys do not > > tolerate > > > salt as well either. > > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml (SNIP - > Salt > > > tolerance in freshwater fishes varies. The percomorph fishes, like > > cichlids > > > and anabantoids, are derived from marine ancestors in the age of > > dinosaurs. > > > In general, they are more salt-tolerant than ostariophysii, the > > loaches and > > > minnows, characins and catfish that have descended from freshwater > > > ancestors. Years ago, William T. Innes reported that when a range > of > > > freshwater fishes were exposed to salt baths, the first to die > were > > > Corydoras. Those ostariophysan fishes that navigate by electric > > fields, like > > > knife fishes, gymnotid eels and the "elephant noses" or mormyrids, > > should > > > never be exposed to salt baths, according to the University of > Florida. > > > Killifishes and livebearers are more tolerant of salt, on the > whole. But > > > there are many exceptions to this very broad rule. Be aware of > the salt > > > tolerance of your particular fish. END SNIP) > > > > > > But that is talking about a Salt Bath which is a much higher dose > of 35 > > > teaspoons per gallon instead of just 3 teaspoons per gallon > > treatment that I > > > am talking about and nothing I have in my favorites is jumping > out at me > > > about what level of salt corys can tolerate. You may want to > move them > > > also... or move the fish (except the corydoras) to the 10G and > treat > > them > > > with the salt to 0.3% (three teaspoons per gallon) and the main > 38G tank > > > with salt only to 0.1% (one teaspoon per gallon). Be ready to do > a > > 1/3 PWC > > > in the event your corys start showing signs of stress related to > the > > salt. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:10 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris > > > > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > > > After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks > like > > > columnaris is what I have. > > > > > > The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, > guppies, > > tetras, > > > mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails. > > > > > > I see there are two products that are considered safe for > > > invertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these? > > > > > > Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see > any > > signs of > > > the disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday > and was > > > stressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish are > > > exhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this > > batch die > > > and a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. > > Neither > > > one showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water > > test last > > > night and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, > > Nitrates > > > under 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to > > > 7.2 range. > > > > > > I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine > > tank but > > > it is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could > move my > > > friend the snails there while I treat. > > > > > > Advice? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Alina, > > > > > > > > Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a > > > fungus but > > > > is actually bacterial. > > > > > > > > Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on > this site > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di > sease. > > > > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/d > isease > > > .> > > > > html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > > > > > > Or the direct link to Columnaris is - > > > > > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di > sease. > > > > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/d > isease > > > .> > > > > html#External which would be even more likely to break but I > don't > > > have a > > > > TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about > fish > > > disease, > > > > went out of business or the owner of the site died or > something, so > > > the site > > > > lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of > the > > > > page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the > pages > > > from > > > > the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I > did) so > > > you will > > > > always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a > while > > > > to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and the > WayBack > > > Archives > > > > slow server speeds. > > > > > > > > Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other > Notes" > > > > sections: > > > > > > > > Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not > limited to: > > > > Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). > Frequent > > > > water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is > difficult to > > > > treat because it attacks intracellularly. > > > > > > > > Other Notes - > > > > > > > > Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for > ammonia, > > > > nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common > skin > > > > infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish > > > especially > > > > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article > by > > > Dr. Barb. > > > > Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species > that > > > causes > > > > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish > tank > > > > granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by > Dr. > > > > Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank > with > > > > suspect animals. > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above > > > > listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > > > > > Hi Jenny, > > > > > > > > Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially > careful > > > because > > > > I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will > be a > > > > last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank > into > > > another tank. > > > > > > > > Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. > > > > > > > > Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a > fungus. > > > > I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I > haven't > > > tryed salt > > > > for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better > ideas. > > > > > Jennie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > > > > > > > > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true > fact, > > > > I > > > > > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths > for > > > > > everything. Worth a try? > > > > > > > > > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my > hospital > > > > > tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and no > fussing > > > > at > > > > > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > > > > > tools.:-) > > > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, > kinda > > > > like > > > > > it's > > > > > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming > much > > > > and > > > > > not > > > > > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all > systems > > > > > normal. > > > > > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > > > 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > > > 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > > > Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:31:44 AM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > > > Tested on: 10/30/2008 8:44:40 AM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32188	From: Chris	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle

okay so you guys don't like the bottles of bacteria for cycling tanks. You say that you don't believe they are effective, but lenny likes bio-spira. Thats fine, but what I don't understand is how do they make cycling harder? If there is a live culture that starts working immediatly, do they die off soon as the food supply is used, or do they just die? The fish and food always put out ammonia, and would the filter catch the bacteria and keep them there? I don't get it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32189	From: Chris	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: ammonia cycling and plants

I'm setting up a new tank and want to know if I can do a fishless cycle in a planted tank with 5ppm ammonia with out harming the plants

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32190	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle

Where did you ever get the idea that we don't like the bottled bacteria? I don't recall anyone posting anything to that effect, unless I missed it. This is the ONLY source of nitrifying bacteria we DO recommend. They most certainly do not make cycling harder at all; again, another misconception. If anything, they make cycling essentially effortless. You would use one of these products in anticipation of introducing your fish soon afterwards, that's the idea of getting it -- so that you have practically an "instant" cycle, or extremely soon thereafter. In the absence of food and/or fish supply food, yes, this live bacteria will die off (or die back in population), as any other living organism will. The object of using it is so you will be adding your fish soon afterwards, which will continue to feed these bacteria. Yes, the filter will "catch" these bacteria asbthat is where they will populate - - on surfaces offering the best continuous supply of oxygen and food -- with the constant flow of water running past them. If you can't find BioSpira, look for "Dr Tim's One and Only," the latest product of this sort. Both products were developed by Dr. Timothy A. Hanovec, the latter (and newest) one offered by Dr. Hanovec's firm -- Dr. Tim's Aquatics. This product ("Dr Tim's One and Only") can be found at Drs Foster & Smith on-line aquatic supply house. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > okay so you guys don't like the bottles of bacteria for cycling tanks. > You say that you don't believe they are effective, but lenny likes > bio-spira. Thats fine, but what I don't understand is how do they > make cycling harder? If there is a live culture that starts working > immediatly, do they die off soon as the food supply is used, or do > they just die? The fish and food always put out ammonia, and would > the filter catch the bacteria and keep them there? I don't get it. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32191	From: Margie	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hi all from KY

Lenny, my tank is 50 G...... so what is your recommendation on what I can put in that size? I do like the Ryukins and Orandas. And one hubby wants a Common. -- Margie in KY http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- > You know you would need a really BIG tank for four Orandas... and it's not > always a good thing to mix long-bodied and round-bodied goldfish since the > round-bodied can't compete for food and second reason... heaven forbid the > Common is a male and only one of the Orandas is a female. He would harass > her to death when nature calls (mating season). Even female commons have > been known to be harassed to death by an overzealous male common in a large > pond where the female might have room to get away on occasion. This ability > to hide would be less likely in a tank that would not likely be the size of > a pond... since you said it's sitting in your Explorer... unless Explorer is > a new brand of 18-wheeler. ;-) > > It would be like putting your cousin, Michael, in a kiddie pool. ;-) (Hint - > Phelps) LOL > > Round bodied goldfish need at least 25-30 gallons per fish and even that is > a bare minimum and would require frequent tank maintenance. Long bodied > goldfish need much more room due to their faster and longer distance > swimming abilities.... in comparison to cousin Michael again. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi all from KY > > Hi All, I am back, well, sort of. I am on my lap top. Our apt is not totally > finished and until it is, I will be on it. but after the big box emptying > I'll be back in full swing. My fish tank is still in my Explorer and will > stay there till we have made room for it. > I have thought about what to get this time and what not to get ....... for > sure, NO KOI. My husband still wants a Common and I want Orandas. So 4 > Orandas and 1 Common. I saw some really nice ones at Wal-Mart, but my DIL > says there is a local fish store and I will check it out. It maybe later > though, right now we have to get our selves organized. > But I am back and reading your e-mails. > TTYL > > Margie in KY > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > -------------- Original message from "Dora Smith" > >: -------------- > > > That sounds like just about the right amount of fish to me, unless > > your tank is brand new, in which case you're supposed to start with > > one to three fish adn build up gradually. > > > > I have 25 small fish in a 20 gallon tank, and they're thriving, but I > > do work alot harder at keeping the tank clean than if I really wanted > > to look at a tank with only a fwe fish in it. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jjmiltner" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:26 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess > > > > > > I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. > > 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). Guy > > at the pet store didn't know about that. > > I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I > > took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using 1/8 > > teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at one > > time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 is > > 20ppm and > > No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. > > I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't > > fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was going > > to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my > > rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? > > Thanks > > Jennie > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:28:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:45:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32192	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle

thanks :) ________________________________ From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:38:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle Where did you ever get the idea that we don't like the bottled bacteria? I don't recall anyone posting anything to that effect, unless I missed it. This is the ONLY source of nitrifying bacteria we DO recommend. They most certainly do not make cycling harder at all; again, another misconception. If anything, they make cycling essentially effortless. You would use one of these products in anticipation of introducing your fish soon afterwards, that's the idea of getting it -- so that you have practically an "instant" cycle, or extremely soon thereafter. In the absence of food and/or fish supply food, yes, this live bacteria will die off (or die back in population), as any other living organism will. The object of using it is so you will be adding your fish soon afterwards, which will continue to feed these bacteria. Yes, the filter will "catch" these bacteria asbthat is where they will populate - - on surfaces offering the best continuous supply of oxygen and food -- with the constant flow of water running past them. If you can't find BioSpira, look for "Dr Tim's One and Only," the latest product of this sort. Both products were developed by Dr. Timothy A. Hanovec, the latter (and newest) one offered by Dr. Hanovec's firm -- Dr. Tim's Aquatics. This product ("Dr Tim's One and Only") can be found at Drs Foster & Smith on-line aquatic supply house. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > okay so you guys don't like the bottles of bacteria for cycling tanks. > You say that you don't believe they are effective, but lenny likes > bio-spira. Thats fine, but what I don't understand is how do they > make cycling harder? If there is a live culture that starts working > immediatly, do they die off soon as the food supply is used, or do > they just die? The fish and food always put out ammonia, and would > the filter catch the bacteria and keep them there? I don't get it. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32193	From: bill1433	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle

Thanks very much for this information Ray.  I just did an entire "cut & paste" of it into my Fish Notebook!   Much appreciated,   Bill --- On Thu, 10/30/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 5:38 PM Where did you ever get the idea that we don't like the bottled bacteria? I don't recall anyone posting anything to that effect, unless I missed it. This is the ONLY source of nitrifying bacteria we DO recommend. They most certainly do not make cycling harder at all; again, another misconception. If anything, they make cycling essentially effortless. You would use one of these products in anticipation of introducing your fish soon afterwards, that's the idea of getting it -- so that you have practically an "instant" cycle, or extremely soon thereafter. In the absence of food and/or fish supply food, yes, this live bacteria will die off (or die back in population), as any other living organism will. The object of using it is so you will be adding your fish soon afterwards, which will continue to feed these bacteria. Yes, the filter will "catch" these bacteria asbthat is where they will populate - - on surfaces offering the best continuous supply of oxygen and food -- with the constant flow of water running past them. If you can't find BioSpira, look for "Dr Tim's One and Only," the latest product of this sort. Both products were developed by Dr. Timothy A. Hanovec, the latter (and newest) one offered by Dr. Hanovec's firm -- Dr. Tim's Aquatics. This product ("Dr Tim's One and Only") can be found at Drs Foster & Smith on-line aquatic supply house. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > okay so you guys don't like the bottles of bacteria for cycling tanks. > You say that you don't believe they are effective, but lenny likes > bio-spira. Thats fine, but what I don't understand is how do they > make cycling harder? If there is a live culture that starts working > immediatly, do they die off soon as the food supply is used, or do > they just die? The fish and food always put out ammonia, and would > the filter catch the bacteria and keep them there? I don't get it. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32194	From: bill1433	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: About Cichlids?

� Since there seems to be a �Lull� in the action for a moment.� I�d like to ask some fishy questions? � There are three fish that I have never kept:� The Keyhole Cichlid - Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue or Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). � Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along together in a 30-gallon tank?� If so how many of each or recommendations as to up keep. � Thanks, � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32195	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris

Yes, everything should be OK since antibiotics should not harm the fish, critters or plants. You will be using an antibiotic made to kill off gram negative bacteria and the nitrifying bacteria are gram positive bacteria so it shouldn't really affect them either. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 2:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris Will do. And the Corys..ok with the treatments? Now, I've never had to treat my tank before so I may have to figure out how to save my nitrifying bacteria. Thanks alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, now that Ray has chimed in suggesting the antibiotics, maybe you > should go ahead and do that... although, like Ray said, I'm not sure the two > meds you inquired about would be my first choices. Do you have a PetsMart > of other big pet store or LFS in your area where you could get meds? If you > have a PetsMart, go to their website first and print out their online > pricing as the local stores will match the price. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris > > Gosh, Lenny. My chest is closing up just reading your posting. Get me > a paper bag!! This is becoming complicated. I'm sure I'll be more confident as > I get more experience. > > I'd frankly prefer to try salt first. I'm with you on the antibiotics. > > My Cory is a Cory albino catfish (Armored catfish). Here's a YouTube video > of exactly what I have in my tank. Only one. He's new too. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCqRO9VxkA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCqRO9VxkA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCqRO9VxkA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCqRO9VxkA> > > > I think I can most easily move my snails to the 10 gallon, which is > mid cycle. I'm worried though, there isn't enough algae and stuff. But I'll just > feed them and do water changes. I think that's probably best. > > So how many days do I keep up the salt regimen? > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Since columnaris is bacterial (gram negative bacteria), an > antibiotic would > > be the right kind of medication, if you were sure that is what you > have... > > but if your other fish are not showing signs, I would first use a > > salt treatment. > > > > Bring the salt level up to 0.3% (three level teaspoons per gallon) > but bring > > it up at the dose of one level teaspoon per gallon, then twelve > hours later > > another one teaspoon per gallon and then twelve hours later, the > third one > > level teaspoon per gallon dose. This gives the fish and nitrifying > bacteria > > a chance to acclimate to the salt level. (SEE ONE OF MY LAST FEW > > PARAGRAPHS, STARTING WITH "ARGHHHH" THAT I WROTE AFTER I REALIZED > YOU ALSO > > HAVE CORYDORAS) > > > > There's no use in using antibiotics when they may not be needed and > they are > > used too often or unnecessarily in aquaria so we are getting > > resistant strains of bacteria in the hobby. And Salt is a heck of a > > lot > cheaper too! > > A 2 lb. box might be 50 cents and would more than treat your current > > problem. > > > > Of course, never pour salt directly into a tank. Remove some tank > water and > > dilute the salt in that water and then slowly pour it back into the > > tank avoiding the fish and filter intake. > > > > Applesnails can tolerate this 0.3% dosage as well, or you could move > them > > since "tolerate" doesn't mean they like being in salty water. > > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795> > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795 > > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18795> > > > > > You could also remove any plants as well and disinfect them. > > http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445> > > > > > I don't see either of your meds on this list: > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FishMedications.html> > > > > > Where are you finding these meds? I've never heard of them but > Google says: > > > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid (is this what you found?) > > > http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/1 <http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/ 1> > <http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/ <http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/ <http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/fish/medication/bacterial;-fungus/ > > > 1> > > 02424.asp Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfate > > > > Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid > > Benefits: > > Prevents & Controls Protozoan Diseases Prevents & Controls Bacterial > > Diseases Prevents & Controls Fungal Diseases Helps Regenerate > > Damaged Fins & Tails Active Ingredient Speeds Recovery Safe & > > Effective Short-Term Treatment (3 to 7 days typically) > > Easy-To-UseGives Your Betta Their Best Chance At A Rapid Recovery > > > > > > > > Aqua Pro Cure - http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm > > <http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm> > > <http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm > > <http://www.fishvet.com/aqua_pro-cure_faqs.htm> > (is > this what > > you found? It's a good idea to post links to medications so other > will be > > able to look at what you are looking at) > > > > What diseases specifically does Aqua Pro-Cure treat? > > > > Aqua Pro-Cure is used for the treatment of a range of external > > parasites such as Amlyoodinium (marine velvet), Brooklynella, > > Oodinium (freshwater velvet or rust), Chilodonella, and gill flukes. > > It is also used to treat external bacterial infections such as > > bacterial fin and tail > rot. > > (END SNIPS) > > > > IMO, Salt would be a better choice over either of those and the Aqua > > Pro Cure doesn't seem applicable at all. The Revive stuff may be > applicable... > > if that is what you were looking at but when I searched Google for > "neomycin > > sulfate", I did find this page saying it was good for gram negative > bacteria > > (the third med down) http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html > > <http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html> > > <http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html > > <http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products3.html> > > I also > > found this page with a product called Revive. > > http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm > > <http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm> > > <http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm > > <http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm> > But further searching found > > the > MSDS with > > these ingredients: > > Water >93% > > Formaldehyde <2% > > Methyl Alcohol <1% > > Acriflavine Hydrochloride <2% > > 9-Aminoacridine <2% > > > > I'd stick with Salt first. > > > > ARGGHHH.. after taking another look at your reply, I see you also > > have corydoras. Which species? > > > > Regardless, much of what I've read/learned says that Corys do not > tolerate > > salt as well either. > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml > > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> > (SNIP - > > Salt tolerance in freshwater fishes varies. The percomorph fishes, > > like > cichlids > > and anabantoids, are derived from marine ancestors in the age of > dinosaurs. > > In general, they are more salt-tolerant than ostariophysii, the > loaches and > > minnows, characins and catfish that have descended from freshwater > > ancestors. Years ago, William T. Innes reported that when a range of > > freshwater fishes were exposed to salt baths, the first to die were > > Corydoras. Those ostariophysan fishes that navigate by electric > fields, like > > knife fishes, gymnotid eels and the "elephant noses" or mormyrids, > should > > never be exposed to salt baths, according to the University of Florida. > > Killifishes and livebearers are more tolerant of salt, on the whole. > > But there are many exceptions to this very broad rule. Be aware of > > the salt tolerance of your particular fish. END SNIP) > > > > But that is talking about a Salt Bath which is a much higher dose of > > 35 teaspoons per gallon instead of just 3 teaspoons per gallon > treatment that I > > am talking about and nothing I have in my favorites is jumping out > > at me about what level of salt corys can tolerate. You may want to > > move them also... or move the fish (except the corydoras) to the 10G > > and treat > them > > with the salt to 0.3% (three teaspoons per gallon) and the main 38G > > tank with salt only to 0.1% (one teaspoon per gallon). Be ready to > > do a > 1/3 PWC > > in the event your corys start showing signs of stress related to the > salt. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick?/columnaris > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > After researching this more last night and this morning, it looks > > like columnaris is what I have. > > > > The Platy died. I have about 10-12 fish in my 38 g: platys, guppies, > tetras, > > mollies, albino cories. Two apple snails. > > > > I see there are two products that are considered safe for > > invertebrates: Aqua Pro Cure and Revive. Heard of these? > > > > Do you recommend doing a full tank treatment though I don't see any > signs of > > the disease elsewhere? This particular platy arrived on Sunday and > > was stressed out with obvious signs the entire time. No other fish > > are exhibiting symptoms, though I did have one other platy from this > batch die > > and a guppy too that had been with me a while. So I am concerned. > Neither > > one showed any signs of anything before they died. I did a water > test last > > night and all my levels are good, from Ammonia and Nitrites at O, > Nitrates > > under 20. My ph is in the 6.8 to > > 7.2 range. > > > > I do have the small 10 gallon that I intend to use as a quarantine > tank but > > it is a week into cycling and still needs a little time. I could > > move my friend the snails there while I treat. > > > > Advice? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Alina, > > > > > > Columnaris, aka cotton-mouth or mouth fungus, which looks like a > > fungus but > > > is actually bacterial. > > > > > > Check out the pictures, descriptions and treatment advice on this > > > site > > > - > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease .> > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > .> > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > > > > > .> > > > html TinyURL link - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> > > > > > > > > Or the direct link to Columnaris is - > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease .> > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > .> > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease > > > > > > > .> > > > html#External which would be even more likely to break but I don't > > have a > > > TinyURL for each disease listed on the main page. > > > > > > Unfortunately, FishPalace.org, which is/was a great site about > > > fish > > disease, > > > went out of business or the owner of the site died or something, > > > so > > the site > > > lost it's URL but the Internet WayBack Archive still has 99% of > > > the page/pictures saved at the above link. It might be one of the > > > pages > > from > > > the internet that you actually save on your own computer (I did) > > > so > > you will > > > always have easy access to it. As you will see, it will take a > > > while to finish opening the page due to all of the pictures and > > > the WayBack > > Archives > > > slow server speeds. > > > > > > Here is a copy/paste of the "Potential Treatment" and "Other Notes" > > > sections: > > > > > > Broad spectrum antibiotics. (Examples include but are not limited to: > > > Maracyn I & II, Jungle Binox, Aquatronics Kanacyn, etc.). Frequent > > > water changes a must to improve quality. Tuberculosis is difficult > > > to treat because it attacks intracellularly. > > > > > > Other Notes - > > > > > > Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for > > > ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most > > > common skin infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain > > > other fish > > especially > > > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by > > Dr. Barb. > > > Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that > > causes > > > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish > > > tank granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. > > > Barb discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with > > > suspect animals. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > > > Hi Jenny, > > > > > > Thanks. Doing a little research now. I have to be especially > > > careful > > because > > > I do have invertebrates in my tank. So chemicals probably will be > > > a last resort, and I'll have to take the snails out of the tank > > > into > > another tank. > > > > > > Pictures online and in my book indicate, indeed, fungus, likely. > > > > > > Lucky you, having goldfish. Stays too warm where I live. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > Jennie <jjmiltner@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm a newbie too! My goldfish got the big lips too! It's a fungus. > > > I used Malachite Green at Walmart it's called Ick Away. I haven't > > tryed salt > > > for fungus. Some of the Smarter fish people might have better ideas. > > > > Jennie > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Alina <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Platy is sick? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 5:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Addendum: > > > > > > > > I'm reading my "freshwater aquariums for dummies" book (true > > > > fact, > > > I > > > > bought it, OK!!!) and it pretty much suggests saltwater baths > > > > for everything. Worth a try? > > > > > > > > I just wonder if I need to remove him from the tank....my > > > > hospital tank is, er, a work in progress. I'm cycling it....and > > > > no fussing > > > at > > > > me about this.... Remember, baby steps. I'm slowly aquiring my > > > > tools.:-) > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Alina" <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a platy that has a white ring around it's mouth, kinda > > > like > > > > it's > > > > > lips are turning white. (God, do fish have lips?) > > > > > > > > > > It's not quite a growth, it's in the corners, not swimming > > > > > much > > > and > > > > not > > > > > eating. Thoughts? Levels are good, nothing spiking, all > > > > > systems > > > > normal. > > > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > (again, my Pet Not So Smart store sells me a sick fish.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > > 8:51:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 > > > 9:18:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > > 7:31:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > > 8:44:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > 10:04:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > 10:18:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:10:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:49:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32196	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?

When housing Cichlids, even though the largest of these are not much more than 3", you can't use the questionable 1" of fish per gallon "rule" which, when normally used, should only include fish up to this size anyway. With Cichlids, you need to consider their needs beyond just the amount of water to comfortably/safely sustain them, especially if they decide to pair off and spawn (usually unavoidable). It is not unusual to allow the 30 gallon tank to house just one breeding pair of these fish, even though a pair would be fine in a 15 or 20. There is no reason why these three species should not otherwise get along together though; all are for the most part, peaceful. About the most aggressive species of the 3 is the P. pulcher, and of them, it would be the female when she is guarding a spawn of eggs. At these times, the other species will be "persuaded" to occupy the opposite end of the tank from where the female Kribenis has spawned, but then this can be said if any other of these species spawn. Although they are peaceful, it is these Cichlids' nature to guard their spawn against any intruders -- and by "intruders," it is meant of any fish in the vicinity of the pairs' territory at the time (which could be up to half the tank). If you want to try keeping these 3 species together, and you're counting on them not spawning (which can be minimized by temperatures towards the lower part of their range, even if not completely eliminated), the maximum amount you could have would be 3 (1 male, 2 female) Kribensis, 3 Keyhole Cichlids and 5 or 6 Rams which would max out the tanks' capacity. But as previously stated, you'll want to give them a little elbow room, so you should plan on whittling this down somewhat to a pair of Kribs, a pair of Keyholes and 2 pairs of Rams. As nothing "boisterous" will occur before pairing up, and since the tank has the potential sustainable capacity, it should be quite workable to start with the first plan of a near-capacity load -- adding the fish slowly so as not to overload the cycling capacity -- and in this way offer each species a small selection to choose mates from for best compatability of each species. Once mates are chosen, you can then cut back from 3 individuals of the species to 2, eliminated the odd one. Likewise with the 5 or 6 Rams; as they pair up, return the one or two odd ones to the store, retaining only the two pairs (or one pair, if you prefer). Once you have compatible pairs, the community as a whole will be more stable; each species will act as the other's "dither" fish -- a "dither" fish is one that distracts the fish of subject (subject, being the species of your focus at the moment). Each species will "cover" each other in this manner. Distracting fish are helpful in any Cichlid grouping (or even just in Cichlid pairs), even if not essential with peaceful Cichlids such as these; they draw the attention of each pair towards the other pairs, which in turn draws the attention of a pair away from each other just enough so that any male of a pair will not get overly "rambunctious" towards its mate. You may and should expect some bickering between species from time to time, but I don't see any damage being done. They will learn to stay out of each others' way when it comes down to it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > >   > Since there seems to be a "Lull" in the action for a moment.  I'd like to ask some fishy questions? >   > There are three fish that I have never kept:  The Keyhole Cichlid - Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue or Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). >   > Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along together in a 30-gallon tank?  If so how many of each or recommendations as to up keep. >   > Thanks, >   > Bill > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32197	From: David Keymel	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?

My keyhole keeps with my single (i think ) female blue ram just fine. I also have 6 tetras and 2 clown loach and a couple other small fish in the tank. its 40 some gallons. i notice that on occasion the ram and keyhole will give a quick chase of some of the other fish, its very short like a "hey im swimming here get out of my way" kinda thing. they don't nip or spear that i have noticed. On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:21 PM, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Since there seems to be a "Lull" in the action for a moment. I'd like to > ask some fishy questions? > > There are three fish that I have never kept: The Keyhole Cichlid - > Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue or > Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). > > Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along together in > a 30-gallon tank? If so how many of each or recommendations as to up keep. > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32198	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle

Lenny used to like Bio-Spira until earlier this year when Marineland and Dr. Tim Hovenac separated and Marineland merge with Tetra and Dr. Tim formed his own company http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com and now he has his own instant cycling product called Dr. Tim's One And Only.... which is what I like the most now... even though Tetra is now selling Bio-Spira as a product called Safe Start but I just don't like Tetra because they also heavily push a product called Easy Balance and they send out monthly emails to people on their mailing list telling them to do a PWC "unless using Easy Balance" since Tetra INHUMANELY says you only have to do a PWC once every six months with that CRAPPY chemical in the tank. I've looked at the MSDS on Easy Balance and it's formaldehyde and some kind of chemical used in the medical industry for sanitizing medical instruments. My theory is that it doesn't really help the fish but it kills them and then the formaldehyde preserves them so they look alive as the filter moves them around the tank. LOL What do you mean by "make cycling harder"? Neither product, Dr. Tim's One and Only nor Bio-Spira (now Safe Start) claim to make it harder.. but rather easier. If you add them to a new tank without fish, give it a day for the bacteria to grab hold of a surface area (most of the surface area of a tank is in the filter media) and then add the fish the next day, and the fish continue feeding the nitrifying bacteria with the ammonia they put out. Then as the tank matures even further and there is detritus in the gravel and filter systems breaking down putting out more ammonia, the nitrifying bacteria colonies continue to grow as needed to handle to bioload. Uneaten food, detritus, etc., doesn't put out ammonia right away. It takes a while for it to start decaying to the point that it puts out ammonia. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle okay so you guys don't like the bottles of bacteria for cycling tanks. You say that you don't believe they are effective, but lenny likes bio-spira. Thats fine, but what I don't understand is how do they make cycling harder? If there is a live culture that starts working immediatly, do they die off soon as the food supply is used, or do they just die? The fish and food always put out ammonia, and would the filter catch the bacteria and keep them there? I don't get it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:14:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32199	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: ammonia cycling and plants

Live plants in a new tank will technically only slow down the fishless cycle since the plants will be using some of the ammonia instead of it being used to build up a large nitrifying bacteria colony. Now, on the up side, the plants could have nitrifying bacteria growing on them which might help speed up the fishless cycling. It all depends on where the plants have been growing. For example, at my local PetsMart, they have the live plants in a separate display system separated from the fish so the plants do not have a chance to become part of the ecosystem with fish. They use liquid fertilizers and the substrate to feed the plants so they are likely getting nitrates and phosphates but not ammonia or nitrite so there is nothing to feed the nitrifying bacteria in a plant only tank. Well, maybe over time, as some of the plants die or leave die and get down into the gravel, and then start decaying, that would put out ammonia that would feed the nitrogen cycle but even then, the plants might utilized the ammonia before any nitrifying bacteria can start to grow. If you are starting a heavily planted tank, there's not as much need to fishless cycle. See my most recent blog article and the links to Chuck's Planted Tank page explains this further. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 2:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ammonia cycling and plants I'm setting up a new tank and want to know if I can do a fishless cycle in a planted tank with 5ppm ammonia with out harming the plants ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:11:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:19:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32200	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Sad zebra danio loss

It doesn't take tehm long to begin decomposing. My danios turn white after death too. The fish may ahve been hung up on something and come loose before you saw it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:04 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Sad zebra danio loss One of my favorates, a large (Not giant) zebra danio died last night. I don't know why. But it was all pasty white in colour, the only indicationn of species being the barring colours in it's tail and pectoral fins. The rest of the body had gone white. Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32201	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Thank you, Henry. Chuckle. You'll probably catch it from the rest of the list! I'm afraid I'm with you - except that it's never occurred to me to call them wildlife. If I genuinely thought nature made them subhuman, I'd stop holding it against them, and calling someone subhuman is to stop expecting and stop requiring humanity from them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information IMHO, the real threat to our own native animals is not the humble zebra danio. Doubt that species could NOT survive for long in most of the waters in this country. The real threat to our native species if the invasion of the illegal Mexican wildlife that crosses the borders in large schools daily. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <HYPERLINK "mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net"henrypuryear@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS:"http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS:"HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS:"http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_American_Invasives&flags=HAS: Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdom%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26search_credRating%3DAll"http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdom%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26search_credRating%3DAll"163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php%3Fgss_id%3D21"http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php%3Fgss_id%3D21"Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@...> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber="http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber="HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber="http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12%3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@...> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@...> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505"HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505"http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/"http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/"HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/"http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php"http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/"http://nis.gsmfc.org/> This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm"http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com"http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32202	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Don't know if it's your definition, Lenny. An invasive non-native species is a species that is not native to this country establishing thriving populations in the wild that are actively causing harm to the existing ecosystem. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they're also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren't any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32203	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Hi all from KY

Two fancy goldfish like Orandas/Ryukins would be OK in a 50G for a long time, as long as you have a nice size filter system with lots of filter media (like an AquaClear HOB or any canister filter) and you would still have to do weekly PWC's or more often as the fish reach adult size. In the beginning, once the tank is cycled and the two baby goldfish are still small, you might be able to go every two weeks between PWC's but once those two goldfish reach big-boy sizes, you will have to do frequent PWC's which your test results, fish, algae, etc., will determine the frequency of their need. Common goldfish get much too large, 15"+ and up to 24" long so they aren't really suitable for most aquariums unless you have an 8'+ long aquarium and even that could be too small as the fish reaches full size. They really should be in nice sized outdoor ponds. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hi all from KY Lenny, my tank is 50 G...... so what is your recommendation on what I can put in that size? I do like the Ryukins and Orandas. And one hubby wants a Common. -- Margie in KY http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >: -------------- > You know you would need a really BIG tank for four Orandas... and it's > not always a good thing to mix long-bodied and round-bodied goldfish > since the round-bodied can't compete for food and second reason... > heaven forbid the Common is a male and only one of the Orandas is a > female. He would harass her to death when nature calls (mating > season). Even female commons have been known to be harassed to death > by an overzealous male common in a large pond where the female might > have room to get away on occasion. This ability to hide would be less > likely in a tank that would not likely be the size of a pond... since > you said it's sitting in your Explorer... unless Explorer is a new > brand of 18-wheeler. ;-) > > It would be like putting your cousin, Michael, in a kiddie pool. ;-) > (Hint - > Phelps) LOL > > Round bodied goldfish need at least 25-30 gallons per fish and even > that is a bare minimum and would require frequent tank maintenance. > Long bodied goldfish need much more room due to their faster and > longer distance swimming abilities.... in comparison to cousin Michael > again. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi all from KY > > Hi All, I am back, well, sort of. I am on my lap top. Our apt is not > totally finished and until it is, I will be on it. but after the big > box emptying I'll be back in full swing. My fish tank is still in my > Explorer and will stay there till we have made room for it. > I have thought about what to get this time and what not to get ....... > for sure, NO KOI. My husband still wants a Common and I want Orandas. > So 4 Orandas and 1 Common. I saw some really nice ones at Wal-Mart, > but my DIL says there is a local fish store and I will check it out. > It maybe later though, right now we have to get our selves organized. > But I am back and reading your e-mails. > TTYL > > Margie in KY > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > <http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf> > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > <http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/> > > -------------- Original message from "Dora Smith" > >: -------------- > > > That sounds like just about the right amount of fish to me, unless > > your tank is brand new, in which case you're supposed to start with > > one to three fish adn build up gradually. > > > > I have 25 small fish in a 20 gallon tank, and they're thriving, but > > I do work alot harder at keeping the tank clean than if I really > > wanted to look at a tank with only a fwe fish in it. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jjmiltner" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:26 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess > > > > > > I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. > > 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). > > Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. > > I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I > > took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using > > 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at > > one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 > > is 20ppm and > > No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. > > I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't > > fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was > > going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my > > rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? > > Thanks > > Jennie > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:28:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:45:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:11:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:30:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32204	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Sorry, no pythons. If there were six pythons, they would not be an invasive species. Jsut pythons doing their thing. To be sure I wouldn't want them there, but five pythons in my house isn't a thriving wild population nor a threat to the ecosystem. Maybe they escaped from teh zoo, or maybe Lenny and Deenerz brought them by. Or maybe it's just Texas. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information But Lenny, she works. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 6:54 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they’re also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren’t any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32205	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: ammonia cycling and plants

Yes, However, the plants may cause the cycle to take longer to become established than without the plants. This is because the plants will utilize at least some of the nitrogen you are so generously providing them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ammonia cycling and plants I'm setting up a new tank and want to know if I can do a fishless cycle in a planted tank with 5ppm ammonia with out harming the plants ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32206	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle

You know... I read the OP and replied but never paid much attention to the subject line until now. Nutrafin Cycle wasn't even mentioned in the OP, only Bio-Spira. I've tried it several years ago and Nutrafin Cycle doesn't work at all and/or is definitely NOT in the league with products like Dr. Tim's One And Only or Bio-Spira (and hopefully Tetra hasn't screwed it up too much with changing it to Safe Start). Nutrafin Cycle was out as a product long before Dr. Tim invented Bio-Spira and then he had a patent on the process for 10 years, until recently, so maybe Nutrafin has copied the technology but I haven't seen anything purporting that. The problem with many of these products is that if they do change their products now, they would be admitting that their products never really worked for the past 10+ years. That's the same quandary that many goldfish profiles/care sheets have on the internet. They've been recommending such small volumes of water for goldfish for so long, they don't want to admit that they've been wrong for all these years so they keep pushing their BAD information.... kind of like the scientists that called Christopher Columbus and other explorers crazy for claiming the earth was round. Those "flat earth" scientists didn't want to admit they were wrong about it being flat. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle thanks :) ________________________________ From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:38:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle Where did you ever get the idea that we don't like the bottled bacteria? I don't recall anyone posting anything to that effect, unless I missed it. This is the ONLY source of nitrifying bacteria we DO recommend. They most certainly do not make cycling harder at all; again, another misconception. If anything, they make cycling essentially effortless. You would use one of these products in anticipation of introducing your fish soon afterwards, that's the idea of getting it -- so that you have practically an "instant" cycle, or extremely soon thereafter. In the absence of food and/or fish supply food, yes, this live bacteria will die off (or die back in population), as any other living organism will. The object of using it is so you will be adding your fish soon afterwards, which will continue to feed these bacteria. Yes, the filter will "catch" these bacteria asbthat is where they will populate - - on surfaces offering the best continuous supply of oxygen and food -- with the constant flow of water running past them. If you can't find BioSpira, look for "Dr Tim's One and Only," the latest product of this sort. Both products were developed by Dr. Timothy A. Hanovec, the latter (and newest) one offered by Dr. Hanovec's firm -- Dr. Tim's Aquatics. This product ("Dr Tim's One and Only") can be found at Drs Foster & Smith on-line aquatic supply house. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > okay so you guys don't like the bottles of bacteria for cycling tanks. > You say that you don't believe they are effective, but lenny likes > bio-spira. Thats fine, but what I don't understand is how do they make > cycling harder? If there is a live culture that starts working > immediatly, do they die off soon as the food supply is used, or do > they just die? The fish and food always put out ammonia, and would the > filter catch the bacteria and keep them there? I don't get it. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:11:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:37:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32207	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Dora, A non-native species is any species found outside of its natural range. Many trout are actually invasive non-native species, since Fish & Wildlife Departments trout to many streams and rivers where they would not normally be found to enhance the fishing experience of fishermen. Fish, and other critters, do not need to come from outside the country to become invasive non-native species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Don't know if it's your definition, Lenny. An invasive non-native species is a species that is not native to this country establishing thriving populations in the wild that are actively causing harm to the existing ecosystem. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they're also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren't any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32208	From: bill1433	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?

Thanks Ray!!--------------------------------------It's in the notebook.   Bill --- On Thu, 10/30/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: About Cichlids? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:53 PM When housing Cichlids, even though the largest of these are not much more than 3", you can't use the questionable 1" of fish per gallon "rule" which, when normally used, should only include fish up to this size anyway. With Cichlids, you need to consider their needs beyond just the amount of water to comfortably/ safely sustain them, especially if they decide to pair off and spawn (usually unavoidable) . It is not unusual to allow the 30 gallon tank to house just one breeding pair of these fish, even though a pair would be fine in a 15 or 20. There is no reason why these three species should not otherwise get along together though; all are for the most part, peaceful. About the most aggressive species of the 3 is the P. pulcher, and of them, it would be the female when she is guarding a spawn of eggs. At these times, the other species will be "persuaded" to occupy the opposite end of the tank from where the female Kribenis has spawned, but then this can be said if any other of these species spawn. Although they are peaceful, it is these Cichlids' nature to guard their spawn against any intruders -- and by "intruders," it is meant of any fish in the vicinity of the pairs' territory at the time (which could be up to half the tank). If you want to try keeping these 3 species together, and you're counting on them not spawning (which can be minimized by temperatures towards the lower part of their range, even if not completely eliminated), the maximum amount you could have would be 3 (1 male, 2 female) Kribensis, 3 Keyhole Cichlids and 5 or 6 Rams which would max out the tanks' capacity. But as previously stated, you'll want to give them a little elbow room, so you should plan on whittling this down somewhat to a pair of Kribs, a pair of Keyholes and 2 pairs of Rams. As nothing "boisterous" will occur before pairing up, and since the tank has the potential sustainable capacity, it should be quite workable to start with the first plan of a near-capacity load -- adding the fish slowly so as not to overload the cycling capacity -- and in this way offer each species a small selection to choose mates from for best compatability of each species. Once mates are chosen, you can then cut back from 3 individuals of the species to 2, eliminated the odd one. Likewise with the 5 or 6 Rams; as they pair up, return the one or two odd ones to the store, retaining only the two pairs (or one pair, if you prefer). Once you have compatible pairs, the community as a whole will be more stable; each species will act as the other's "dither" fish -- a "dither" fish is one that distracts the fish of subject (subject, being the species of your focus at the moment). Each species will "cover" each other in this manner. Distracting fish are helpful in any Cichlid grouping (or even just in Cichlid pairs), even if not essential with peaceful Cichlids such as these; they draw the attention of each pair towards the other pairs, which in turn draws the attention of a pair away from each other just enough so that any male of a pair will not get overly "rambunctious" towards its mate. You may and should expect some bickering between species from time to time, but I don't see any damage being done. They will learn to stay out of each others' way when it comes down to it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > >   > Since there seems to be a "Lull" in the action for a moment.  I'd like to ask some fishy questions? >   > There are three fish that I have never kept:  The Keyhole Cichlid - Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue or Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). >   > Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along together in a 30-gallon tank?  If so how many of each or recommendations as to up keep. >   > Thanks, >   > Bill > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32209	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?

Did you ever get your lab's water test results back? Or your own master test kit?... to find out if your water is as hard as you think it may be? This is still something that needs to be learned so you can pick your fish accordingly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] About Cichlids? Since there seems to be a “Lull” in the action for a moment. I’d like to ask some fishy questions? There are three fish that I have never kept: The Keyhole Cichlid - Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue or Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along together in a 30-gallon tank? If so how many of each or recommendations as to up keep. Thanks, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:11:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:40:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32210	From: Lisa	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Sad zebra danio loss

Thanks Dora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > It doesn't take tehm long to begin decomposing. My danios turn white after > death too. > > The fish may ahve been hung up on something and come loose before you saw > it. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:04 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sad zebra danio loss > > > One of my favorates, a large (Not giant) zebra danio died last night. > I don't know why. But it was all pasty white in colour, the only > indicationn of species being the barring colours in it's tail and > pectoral fins. The rest of the body had gone white. > > Lisa > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32211	From: Lisa	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Help needed with gallon size please

Hi all. Okay. These are the absolute maximum perimeters of the surface that I am intending to put the new tank on. It's not a unit that has been specifically made for a tank. It currently holds my tv. But I believe it will be strong enough. I will post a picture of the unit in just a moment. But I would like to know if any of you can determine what the volume in gallons would be. It is 49cm – 19 inches in Width 83cm – 32 inch in Length 68cm – 26 inches in height Now. Obviously the tank itself will be a couple of inches smaller then that. But what do you think? Could I get a 20gal tank on there? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32212	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Hey Nut, I asked you numerous times to call me by my name "Mike" and not an email address. -Mike Sorry, no pythons. If there were six pythons, they would not be an invasive species. Jsut pythons doing their thing. To be sure I wouldn't want them there, but five pythons in my house isn't a thriving wild population nor a threat to the ecosystem. Maybe they escaped from teh zoo, or maybe Lenny and Deenerz brought them by. Or maybe it's just Texas. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 6:30 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Sorry, no pythons. If there were six pythons, they would not be an invasive species. Jsut pythons doing their thing. To be sure I wouldn't want them there, but five pythons in my house isn't a thriving wild population nor a threat to the ecosystem. Maybe they escaped from teh zoo, or maybe Lenny and Deenerz brought them by. Or maybe it's just Texas. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information But Lenny, she works. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 6:54 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they’re also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren’t any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/26/2008 2:59:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 7:28:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 Tested on: 10/29/2008 8:54:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32213	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Where's OJ and Beretta when we need them? LOL Oh yeah, OJ finally got life... but Beretta's still out there. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Hey Nut, I asked you numerous times to call me by my name "Mike" and not an email address. -Mike Sorry, no pythons. If there were six pythons, they would not be an invasive species. Jsut pythons doing their thing. To be sure I wouldn't want them there, but five pythons in my house isn't a thriving wild population nor a threat to the ecosystem. Maybe they escaped from teh zoo, or maybe Lenny and Deenerz brought them by. Or maybe it's just Texas. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 6:30 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Sorry, no pythons. If there were six pythons, they would not be an invasive species. Jsut pythons doing their thing. To be sure I wouldn't want them there, but five pythons in my house isn't a thriving wild population nor a threat to the ecosystem. Maybe they escaped from teh zoo, or maybe Lenny and Deenerz brought them by. Or maybe it's just Texas. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information But Lenny, she works. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 6:54 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html <http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html> And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they’re also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren’t any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous <http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous> nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive <http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive> invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame > &guide=North_Ame <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame > &guide=North_Ame> rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame > &guide=North_Ame > rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame > &guide=North_Ame <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame > &guide=North_Ame> rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame > &guide=North_Ame > rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing > leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing > > leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% > 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% > > 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 > %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 > > %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 > > %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 > > %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 > %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 > > %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 > > %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 > > %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> > > "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> > > (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> > > "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> > > led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> > > "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> > > and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> > > "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> > > led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> > > "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> > > And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> > > "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> > > Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> > > "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> > > It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > > > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > > > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > > > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32214	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

So your maximum footprint for a tank would be 32" x 19". Is there a chance you could add a 36" x 19" top to the TV stand... like a piece of 1/2" plywood cut to that size or two 36" long sections of 1" x 10" pine boards? One six foot 1" x 10" from Home Depot or Lowes (a couple of dollars), cut in half (for free by the stores) would give you the two pieces you need. Then you could have a 30G Breeder tank with a 36" x 18" footprint. If you can't, then you are limited to a 30" x 12" footprint, which would limit you to a 20G Long or a 29G Tall tank which both have the same 30" x 12" footprint.... or a custom made tank from someone like GlassCages.com where they could make a 32" x 19" custom tank. Remember that the height, while adding additional water volume for dilution purposes, does not increase the bioload ability as much since it limits the surface area and bottom area. The tank does not need to be smaller than the top in the case of adding a new top to the stand or getting a custom sized tank. In fact, I think it's better to have the tank the same size as the top if it's wooden furniture so you would have less of a chance of any spilled water getting under the tank and possibly rotting out the wood over the course of many years. The next big question would be how much weight the stand can handle. How sturdy was it with a TV on it? Did it wobble at all when moving it around.. or was it rock solid? Oh yeah.. to answer your question, which is included above, yes, you could put a 20G Long tank on the stand if it can handle the 200 pounds of weight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help needed with gallon size please Hi all. Okay. These are the absolute maximum perimeters of the surface that I am intending to put the new tank on. It's not a unit that has been specifically made for a tank. It currently holds my tv. But I believe it will be strong enough. I will post a picture of the unit in just a moment. But I would like to know if any of you can determine what the volume in gallons would be. It is 49cm - 19 inches in Width 83cm - 32 inch in Length 68cm - 26 inches in height Now. Obviously the tank itself will be a couple of inches smaller then that. But what do you think? Could I get a 20gal tank on there? Thanks Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 9:14:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32215	From: Lisa	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

Spoke to the man at my local aquarium over the phone just before, and we're talking UK gallons. He recons i can have a 45 gal (Not tall)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32216	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

My understanding is that a UK gallon is bigger than a USA gallon so I'm not sure how your LFS could be saying a 45G UK would fit on that stand... unless it was a really tall tank.... or unless they have a standard tank size over there with a 30" x 18" footprint and even that would have to be a tall tank to handle 45G UK. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please Spoke to the man at my local aquarium over the phone just before, and we're talking UK gallons. He recons i can have a 45 gal (Not tall) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 9:42:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32217	From: Margie	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Thanks, Lenny

Thanks, Lenny, that gives me some things to think about....... -- Margie in KY http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464 /shelf http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...>: -------------- > Two fancy goldfish like Orandas/Ryukins would be OK in a 50G for a long > time, as long as you have a nice size filter system with lots of filter > media (like an AquaClear HOB or any canister filter) and you would still > have to do weekly PWC's or more often as the fish reach adult size. In the > beginning, once the tank is cycled and the two baby goldfish are still > small, you might be able to go every two weeks between PWC's but once those > two goldfish reach big-boy sizes, you will have to do frequent PWC's which > your test results, fish, algae, etc., will determine the frequency of their > need. > > Common goldfish get much too large, 15"+ and up to 24" long so they aren't > really suitable for most aquariums unless you have an 8'+ long aquarium and > even that could be too small as the fish reaches full size. They really > should be in nice sized outdoor ponds. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hi all from KY > > Lenny, my tank is 50 G...... so what is your recommendation on what I can > put in that size? I do like the Ryukins and Orandas. And one hubby wants a > Common. > -- > Margie in KY > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > -------------- Original message from "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > >: -------------- > > > You know you would need a really BIG tank for four Orandas... and it's > > not always a good thing to mix long-bodied and round-bodied goldfish > > since the round-bodied can't compete for food and second reason... > > heaven forbid the Common is a male and only one of the Orandas is a > > female. He would harass her to death when nature calls (mating > > season). Even female commons have been known to be harassed to death > > by an overzealous male common in a large pond where the female might > > have room to get away on occasion. This ability to hide would be less > > likely in a tank that would not likely be the size of a pond... since > > you said it's sitting in your Explorer... unless Explorer is a new > > brand of 18-wheeler. ;-) > > > > It would be like putting your cousin, Michael, in a kiddie pool. ;-) > > (Hint - > > Phelps) LOL > > > > Round bodied goldfish need at least 25-30 gallons per fish and even > > that is a bare minimum and would require frequent tank maintenance. > > Long bodied goldfish need much more room due to their faster and > > longer distance swimming abilities.... in comparison to cousin Michael > > again. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > ] On Behalf Of Margie > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi all from KY > > > > Hi All, I am back, well, sort of. I am on my lap top. Our apt is not > > totally finished and until it is, I will be on it. but after the big > > box emptying I'll be back in full swing. My fish tank is still in my > > Explorer and will stay there till we have made room for it. > > I have thought about what to get this time and what not to get ....... > > for sure, NO KOI. My husband still wants a Common and I want Orandas. > > So 4 Orandas and 1 Common. I saw some really nice ones at Wal-Mart, > > but my DIL says there is a local fish store and I will check it out. > > It maybe later though, right now we have to get our selves organized. > > But I am back and reading your e-mails. > > TTYL > > > > Margie in KY > > http://www.shelfari.com/o1518107464/shelf > > > > > > http://loomingragdoll.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Dora Smith" > >: -------------- > > > > > That sounds like just about the right amount of fish to me, unless > > > your tank is brand new, in which case you're supposed to start with > > > one to three fish adn build up gradually. > > > > > > I have 25 small fish in a 20 gallon tank, and they're thriving, but > > > I do work alot harder at keeping the tank clean than if I really > > > wanted to look at a tank with only a fwe fish in it. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jjmiltner" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:26 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] my fish mess > > > > > > > > > I have been told I have fish together that shouldn't be. > > > 5 Neon Tetras, 3 oto cats, 4 platys, 3 mollies in a 45 gal (tall). > > > Guy at the pet store didn't know about that. > > > I have 2 - 10 gal tanks, one I'm getting cycle now (without fish) I > > > took biomedia, water and gravel from my big tank. I've been using > > > 1/8 teaspoon ammonia every 12 hours. How many fish can I put in at > > > one time at that rate? It's showing no ammonia after 5 days and NO3 > > > is 20ppm and > > > No2 is 1. I'm waiting for No3&2 to go down to put the fish in. > > > I want to put my Betta with either the cats or the neons. Both won't > > > fit in 10 gal. My Mollies and Platys need more salt right? I was > > > going to leave them in the 45 gal (I spotted 2 babies hiding in my > > > rocks)What kind of critter can take the salt and eats algea? > > > Thanks > > > Jennie > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > > Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:28:53 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081029-0, 10/29/2008 > > Tested on: 10/29/2008 5:45:20 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:11:05 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:30:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32218	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

Lenny, 1 gallon (UK) = 1.200949926 gallon (US) 45 gallon (UK) = 54.042746648 gallon (US) Based on that conversion, I do not see how a 55 gallon (US) would fit in the allotted space, because leaving just 1" on each side, I get a capacity of 57+ gallons. She would not have room for a filter, unless a canister was used, and holes drilled for the tubing, nor a lighting fixture. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please My understanding is that a UK gallon is bigger than a USA gallon so I'm not sure how your LFS could be saying a 45G UK would fit on that stand... unless it was a really tall tank.... or unless they have a standard tank size over there with a 30" x 18" footprint and even that would have to be a tall tank to handle 45G UK. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please Spoke to the man at my local aquarium over the phone just before, and we're talking UK gallons. He recons i can have a 45 gal (Not tall)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32219	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

I'm not sure how you're getting it up in the 50G range with a 32" x 19" footprint, since standard tanks fitting within that footprint would have to be a 30" x 12" footprint... unless you are thinking of a tall to really tall custom tank and she said "not tall". A 29G is the largest tank I can think of, other than a custom tank, that would fit in the footprint and then it would only have the 30" x 12" footprint. Here's a page of "Standard UK Tank Sizes" http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks-uk.htm but I think it has a typo for a 29G since it has a 36 x 12 x 18 and that adds up to a 33.66G tank so I'm sure they made a typo where it should be 30 x 12 x 18... the standard 29G tall tank. Even if she was going to try a tall tank, that would require a new top on the TV stand to make it a 36" x 18" footprint which would then allow for a 50G Tall, a 70G Tall or 90G Tall (In US gallons). I consider any tank getting over the 16" to 18" height starting to get into the tall tank range since normal aquarium lighting will not be able to give sufficient lighting to low level plants at the bottom of that depth and tall tanks are much harder to service and do not provide comparable room for the fish unless you truly went with a set of bottom dwellers, then a set of middle dwellers and a set of surface dwellers but then the surface area would have to have a LOT of agitation to allow for adequate gas exchange. Of course, these higher volume tanks would also require a much sturdier piece of furniture since the TV stand might not be able to handle the weight of the larger tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please Lenny, 1 gallon (UK) = 1.200949926 gallon (US) 45 gallon (UK) = 54.042746648 gallon (US) Based on that conversion, I do not see how a 55 gallon (US) would fit in the allotted space, because leaving just 1" on each side, I get a capacity of 57+ gallons. She would not have room for a filter, unless a canister was used, and holes drilled for the tubing, nor a lighting fixture. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please My understanding is that a UK gallon is bigger than a USA gallon so I'm not sure how your LFS could be saying a 45G UK would fit on that stand... unless it was a really tall tank.... or unless they have a standard tank size over there with a 30" x 18" footprint and even that would have to be a tall tank to handle 45G UK. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please Spoke to the man at my local aquarium over the phone just before, and we're talking UK gallons. He recons i can have a 45 gal (Not tall) Hi all. Okay. These are the absolute maximum perimeters of the surface that I am intending to put the new tank on. It's not a unit that has been specifically made for a tank. It currently holds my tv. But I believe it will be strong enough. I will post a picture of the unit in just a moment. But I would like to know if any of you can determine what the volume in gallons would be. It is 49cm - 19 inches in Width 83cm - 32 inch in Length 68cm - 26 inches in height Now. Obviously the tank itself will be a couple of inches smaller then that. But what do you think? Could I get a 20gal tank on there? Thanks Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 10:43:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32220	From: bill1433	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?

Hi Lenny, � There�s a bit more to it I�m afraid.� I�ll bring you up to speed. I think you may have lost one of my old mails but I can certainly tell you about it again. � On the water test, na-da.� The morons running the lab lost the original sample but what-the-hey.� We were going to pay over $75.00 to learn about water we have be drinking for the last thirty years.� We know that the well water is fine ok for us but not good for fish or copper pipes.� Still waiting for the plumber and its gotten to the point that the leak has stopped by itself. � The CEO here took the position that if we are talking fish, why not just get some test equipment and do your own water testing for them?� A point well taken (she was up-in-arms about the gas money to run another sample over to the lab anyway).� So that�s where we are.� The test kit, Tetra Laborett Master Aquarium Water Test Kit, is on order from Wally-world and should be here a day next week. � You will, of course, be privy to the results obtained and your advice will be, as always most welcome.� In addition a question not covered by your other mails and also something that occurred to me while brooding about our on-going plumbing headaches.� Should I also consider a test kit that will check for copper content of the water?� I remember something that copper even in trace amounts can kill most aquarium fish but diluted with something else has pharmaceutical benefits to kill parasites for salt water fish.� True? � The problem is the alternatives here.� Should the well water become an expensive fix, I could be out of the game save for that tiny 4-gallon hex in operation right now with mixing the distilled water.� We do know that along with water-softening a unit called an Acid-Neutralizer was also advised.� These expenses are way out of our reach just now.� Over all, the cost would be over 3 large and we just don�t have that kind of money at present. � I was thinking a head with the Cichlid questions and got some great advise from Ray.� My problem just might all come down to the fish themselves!� Where am I going to get them?� Come on Len, be honest, you know your not going to find any Blue Ram�s at Wally-World!--------------------------ROAD TRIP!!!!! <grin> � That�s the latest so far, � Bill --- On Thu, 10/30/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] About Cichlids? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 8:40 PM Did you ever get your lab's water test results back? Or your own master test kit?... to find out if your water is as hard as you think it may be? This is still something that needs to be learned so you can pick your fish accordingly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] About Cichlids? Since there seems to be a �Lull� in the action for a moment. I�d like to ask some fishy questions? There are three fish that I have never kept: The Keyhole Cichlid - Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue or Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along together in a 30-gallon tank? If so how many of each or recommendations as to up keep. Thanks, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:11:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:40:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32221	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 10/30/2008
Subject: bio or nano?

ok so i'm about to start my first saltwater tank, i like the nano cube systems and the bio cubes, i am trying to weigh the advantages and disadvatages to determine which one i buy, the nano is slightly cheaper, the hood is hinged so it props itself open for cleaning and has a larger feeding port which i like. the bio cube does not have a hinged hood so it has to be removed for cleaning, the feeding port is smaller, but the night lights and day lights are on dfferent switches and different plugs so you can have them on alternating timers, unlike the nano where the night/day lights have to be switched manually. so which system would bebest to get? does anyone have any experience with these? i would appreciate some good feedback thanks guys

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32222	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

Besides, the LFS has a vested interest in making a sale. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please My understanding is that a UK gallon is bigger than a USA gallon so I'm not sure how your LFS could be saying a 45G UK would fit on that stand... unless it was a really tall tank.... or unless they have a standard tank size over there with a 30" x 18" footprint and even that would have to be a tall tank to handle 45G UK. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please Spoke to the man at my local aquarium over the phone just before, and we're talking UK gallons. He recons i can have a 45 gal (Not tall) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 9:42:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32223	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?

They do sell a test kit to test for Copper in your tap water. As long as it's at a low enough level, the typical dechlor product that also treats for heavy metals should take care of it. I've never tested my tap water for copper but I also run my tap water for a while before adding water to my tanks since I use the Python for doing PWC's so the pipes are flushed out long before I start adding water to the tanks. On the rare occasion when I do top off my tanks, I usually overdose the dechlor to the top-off water jug so that should take care of any possibility of any leached heavy metals. From what I've read, the biggest risk for copper in the tap water comes from the first several gallons of water coming out of the tap after it hasn't been running for a while. This is due to the water having been sitting in the copper pipes for possibly hours to where leaching may have happened. Of course, with our hard water down here, this is only a chance when there are new copper pipes since it doesn't take long for new pipes to be coated with mineral buildup and then the water no longer comes into direct contact with the copper pipes. Of course, down here, I think my biggest risk of heavy metals in the water comes because of our water source... the Grand Old Mississippi River... after 30 other States have been dumping their pollution into it before the water gets down here, only to be dumped into even more by our own chemical plants before the water gets to our intake pipes. But nobody's glowing after all these years so I'm sure it's OK. LOL If I'm not mistaken, the cichlids you and Ray were recently discussing were South American cichlids which many SA species do better in softer water with an acidic pH (below 7.0). I'm sure there are exceptions. It was the African cichlids that we all talked about when you first got out here that would likely do best in your water, if it's as hard as you suspect it is. The reason for your plumbing issues could be from a high CO2 level in the well water which would have the pH artificially low as it flows through your pipes so it's causing corrosion issues in your pipes.. but once this water is exposed to air, the CO2 would outgas allowing the pH to rise to whatever the "normal" level would be. It will be nice to finally see your tap water baseline tests for 1) Out the tap, 2) 24 hours and 3) 48 hours to see what's really happening to your water, instead of all the hypothesizing and theorizing we've been doing. And you would likely find more Blue Rams at most Wally-World's than other cichlids unless your Wally-World is on well water themselves and have learned to mostly keep hard water fish for sale. They are prolific breeders so they are probably inexpensive fish to purchase... which means a Wally-World type of product. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] About Cichlids? Hi Lenny, There’s a bit more to it I’m afraid. I’ll bring you up to speed. I think you may have lost one of my old mails but I can certainly tell you about it again. On the water test, na-da. The morons running the lab lost the original sample but what-the-hey. We were going to pay over $75.00 to learn about water we have be drinking for the last thirty years. We know that the well water is fine ok for us but not good for fish or copper pipes. Still waiting for the plumber and its gotten to the point that the leak has stopped by itself. The CEO here took the position that if we are talking fish, why not just get some test equipment and do your own water testing for them? A point well taken (she was up-in-arms about the gas money to run another sample over to the lab anyway). So that’s where we are. The test kit, Tetra Laborett Master Aquarium Water Test Kit, is on order from Wally-world and should be here a day next week. You will, of course, be privy to the results obtained and your advice will be, as always most welcome. In addition a question not covered by your other mails and also something that occurred to me while brooding about our on-going plumbing headaches. Should I also consider a test kit that will check for copper content of the water? I remember something that copper even in trace amounts can kill most aquarium fish but diluted with something else has pharmaceutical benefits to kill parasites for salt water fish. True? The problem is the alternatives here. Should the well water become an expensive fix, I could be out of the game save for that tiny 4-gallon hex in operation right now with mixing the distilled water. We do know that along with water-softening a unit called an Acid-Neutralizer was also advised. These expenses are way out of our reach just now. Over all, the cost would be over 3 large and we just don’t have that kind of money at present. I was thinking a head with the Cichlid questions and got some great advise from Ray. My problem just might all come down to the fish themselves! Where am I going to get them? Come on Len, be honest, you know your not going to find any Blue Ram’s at Wally-World!--------------------------ROAD TRIP!!!!! <grin> That’s the latest so far, Bill --- On Thu, 10/30/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] About Cichlids? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 8:40 PM Did you ever get your lab's water test results back? Or your own master test kit?... to find out if your water is as hard as you think it may be? This is still something that needs to be learned so you can pick your fish accordingly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] About Cichlids? Since there seems to be a “Lull” in the action for a moment. I’d like to ask some fishy questions? There are three fish that I have never kept: The Keyhole Cichlid - Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue or Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along together in a 30-gallon tank? If so how many of each or recommendations as to up keep. Thanks, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:11:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:40:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 1:05:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32224	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

\\Steve//, I'm not exactly sure how you came up with 57 gallons fitting on that base (32" x 19"), although I'm not questioning it -- I just don't know the dimensions of the tank you propose. In using 30"L x 18"W x 24"H, I come up with a tank of 56 US Gallons (56.10G), fairly close to yours. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32225	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

The largest standard tank that I find (in All-Glass Aquarium's catalog) that will fit this footprint is 30"L x 12"W x 22"H -- a 37 Gallon tank. A 36 Gallon Bowfront (30"L x 15"W x 20"H) would also fit. The last time I talked to Tom at Glass Cages when he was making up a dozen custom tanks for me, he said that he would make any size I needed just so that it could use a standard frame. This would rule out a 30"L x 18"W tank that I mentioned to \\Steve// since there's no standard frame that size. That would have to be home-made -- or else go to acrylic. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure how you're getting it up in the 50G range with a 32" x 19" > footprint, since standard tanks fitting within that footprint would have to > be a 30" x 12" footprint... unless you are thinking of a tall to really tall > custom tank and she said "not tall". A 29G is the largest tank I can think > of, other than a custom tank, that would fit in the footprint and then it > would only have the 30" x 12" footprint. > > Here's a page of "Standard UK Tank Sizes" > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks-uk.htm but I think it has a typo for > a 29G since it has a 36 x 12 x 18 and that adds up to a 33.66G tank so I'm > sure they made a typo where it should be 30 x 12 x 18... the standard 29G > tall tank. > > Even if she was going to try a tall tank, that would require a new top on > the TV stand to make it a 36" x 18" footprint which would then allow for a > 50G Tall, a 70G Tall or 90G Tall (In US gallons). I consider any tank > getting over the 16" to 18" height starting to get into the tall tank range > since normal aquarium lighting will not be able to give sufficient lighting > to low level plants at the bottom of that depth and tall tanks are much > harder to service and do not provide comparable room for the fish unless you > truly went with a set of bottom dwellers, then a set of middle dwellers and > a set of surface dwellers but then the surface area would have to have a LOT > of agitation to allow for adequate gas exchange. > > Of course, these higher volume tanks would also require a much sturdier > piece of furniture since the TV stand might not be able to handle the weight > of the larger tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please > > Lenny, > > 1 gallon (UK) = 1.200949926 gallon (US) > 45 gallon (UK) = 54.042746648 gallon (US) > > Based on that conversion, I do not see how a 55 gallon (US) would fit in the > allotted space, because leaving just 1" on each side, I get a capacity of > 57+ gallons. She would not have room for a filter, unless a canister was > used, and holes drilled for the tubing, nor a lighting fixture. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please > > My understanding is that a UK gallon is bigger than a USA gallon so I'm not > sure how your LFS could be saying a 45G UK would fit on that stand... > unless > it was a really tall tank.... or unless they have a standard tank size over > there with a 30" x 18" footprint and even that would have to be a tall tank > to handle 45G UK. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please > > Spoke to the man at my local aquarium over the phone just before, and we're > talking UK gallons. He recons i can have a 45 gal (Not tall) > > > > > Hi all. > Okay. These are the absolute maximum perimeters of the surface that I am > intending to put the new tank on. > It's not a unit that has been specifically made for a tank. It currently > holds my tv. But I believe it will be strong enough. I will post a picture > of the unit in just a moment. > > But I would like to know if any of you can determine what the volume in > gallons would be. > > It is 49cm - 19 inches in Width > 83cm - 32 inch in Length > 68cm - 26 inches in height > > Now. Obviously the tank itself will be a couple of inches smaller then that. > But what do you think? > Could I get a 20gal tank on there? > Thanks > Lisa > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 10:43:07 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32226	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?

Bill, I had forgotten about your hard, alkaline water until Lenny threw out that reminder just now. These fish all come from soft water, two species (Keyholes and Rams) coming from soft, slightly alkaline waters of Venezuela and the third (Kribensis) coming from soft slightly acid water of West Africa (Cameroon). I forget exactly what your water parameters are, but while the Keyholes and Kribs may adapt, the gold "German" Rams (Microgeophagus ramirezi) are more demanding and will not thrive. You may want to consider going to Bolivian Rams (Microgeophagus altispinosus) which are more adaptable - - similar in some respects, just as peaceful, but gets to 3" rather than the 2" for the Gold Rams -- which you'd have to consider in the stocking level. Depending on your parameters though, none might not been candidates for your water if its tending to the extreme. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > >   > Thanks Ray!!--------------------------------------It's in the notebook. >   > Bill > > --- On Thu, 10/30/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: About Cichlids? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > When housing Cichlids, even though the largest of these are not much > more than 3", you can't use the questionable 1" of fish per > gallon "rule" which, when normally used, should only include fish up > to this size anyway. With Cichlids, you need to consider their needs > beyond just the amount of water to comfortably/ safely sustain them, > especially if they decide to pair off and spawn (usually > unavoidable) . > > It is not unusual to allow the 30 gallon tank to house just one > breeding pair of these fish, even though a pair would be fine in a 15 > or 20. There is no reason why these three species should not > otherwise get along together though; all are for the most part, > peaceful. About the most aggressive species of the 3 is the P. > pulcher, and of them, it would be the female when she is guarding a > spawn of eggs. At these times, the other species will be "persuaded" > to occupy the opposite end of the tank from where the female Kribenis > has spawned, but then this can be said if any other of these species > spawn. Although they are peaceful, it is these Cichlids' nature to > guard their spawn against any intruders -- and by "intruders," it is > meant of any fish in the vicinity of the pairs' territory at the time > (which could be up to half the tank). > > If you want to try keeping these 3 species together, and you're > counting on them not spawning (which can be minimized by temperatures > towards the lower part of their range, even if not completely > eliminated), the maximum amount you could have would be 3 (1 male, 2 > female) Kribensis, 3 Keyhole Cichlids and 5 or 6 Rams which would max > out the tanks' capacity. But as previously stated, you'll want to > give them a little elbow room, so you should plan on whittling this > down somewhat to a pair of Kribs, a pair of Keyholes and 2 pairs of > Rams. > > As nothing "boisterous" will occur before pairing up, and since the > tank has the potential sustainable capacity, it should be quite > workable to start with the first plan of a near-capacity load -- > adding the fish slowly so as not to overload the cycling capacity -- > and in this way offer each species a small selection to choose mates > from for best compatability of each species. Once mates are chosen, > you can then cut back from 3 individuals of the species to 2, > eliminated the odd one. Likewise with the 5 or 6 Rams; as they pair > up, return the one or two odd ones to the store, retaining only the > two pairs (or one pair, if you prefer). > > Once you have compatible pairs, the community as a whole will be more > stable; each species will act as the other's "dither" fish -- > a "dither" fish is one that distracts the fish of subject (subject, > being the species of your focus at the moment). Each species > will "cover" each other in this manner. Distracting fish are helpful > in any Cichlid grouping (or even just in Cichlid pairs), even if not > essential with peaceful Cichlids such as these; they draw the > attention of each pair towards the other pairs, which in turn draws > the attention of a pair away from each other just enough so that any > male of a pair will not get overly "rambunctious" towards its mate. > You may and should expect some bickering between species from time to > time, but I don't see any damage being done. They will learn to stay > out of each others' way when it comes down to it. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > >   > > Since there seems to be a "Lull" in the action for a moment.  I'd > like to ask some fishy questions? > >   > > There are three fish that I have never kept:  The Keyhole Cichlid - > Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue > or Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). > >   > > Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along > together in a 30-gallon tank?  If so how many of each or > recommendations as to up keep. > >   > > Thanks, > >   > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32227	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

Lenny, Re-read my message. I allowed a 1" space around the tank, which would make it a custom tank, but doing that would not allow for filtration nor lighting within the enclosure stated. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please I'm not sure how you're getting it up in the 50G range with a 32" x 19" footprint, since standard tanks fitting within that footprint would have to be a 30" x 12" footprint... unless you are thinking of a tall to really tall custom tank and she said "not tall". A 29G is the largest tank I can think of, other than a custom tank, that would fit in the footprint and then it would only have the 30" x 12" footprint. Here's a page of "Standard UK Tank Sizes" http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks-uk.htm but I think it has a typo for a 29G since it has a 36 x 12 x 18 and that adds up to a 33.66G tank so I'm sure they made a typo where it should be 30 x 12 x 18... the standard 29G tall tank. Even if she was going to try a tall tank, that would require a new top on the TV stand to make it a 36" x 18" footprint which would then allow for a 50G Tall, a 70G Tall or 90G Tall (In US gallons). I consider any tank getting over the 16" to 18" height starting to get into the tall tank range since normal aquarium lighting will not be able to give sufficient lighting to low level plants at the bottom of that depth and tall tanks are much harder to service and do not provide comparable room for the fish unless you truly went with a set of bottom dwellers, then a set of middle dwellers and a set of surface dwellers but then the surface area would have to have a LOT of agitation to allow for adequate gas exchange. Of course, these higher volume tanks would also require a much sturdier piece of furniture since the TV stand might not be able to handle the weight of the larger tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please Lenny, 1 gallon (UK) = 1.200949926 gallon (US) 45 gallon (UK) = 54.042746648 gallon (US) Based on that conversion, I do not see how a 55 gallon (US) would fit in the allotted space, because leaving just 1" on each side, I get a capacity of 57+ gallons. She would not have room for a filter, unless a canister was used, and holes drilled for the tubing, nor a lighting fixture. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please My understanding is that a UK gallon is bigger than a USA gallon so I'm not sure how your LFS could be saying a 45G UK would fit on that stand... unless it was a really tall tank.... or unless they have a standard tank size over there with a 30" x 18" footprint and even that would have to be a tall tank to handle 45G UK. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please Spoke to the man at my local aquarium over the phone just before, and we're talking UK gallons. He recons i can have a 45 gal (Not tall) Hi all. Okay. These are the absolute maximum perimeters of the surface that I am intending to put the new tank on. It's not a unit that has been specifically made for a tank. It currently holds my tv. But I believe it will be strong enough. I will post a picture of the unit in just a moment. But I would like to know if any of you can determine what the volume in gallons would be. It is 49cm - 19 inches in Width 83cm - 32 inch in Length 68cm - 26 inches in height Now. Obviously the tank itself will be a couple of inches smaller then that. But what do you think? Could I get a 20gal tank on there? Thanks Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 10:43:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32228	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

The last paragraph states the assumptions made to reach that figure. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please \\Steve//, I'm not exactly sure how you came up with 57 gallons fitting on that base (32" x 19"), although I'm not questioning it -- I just don't know the dimensions of the tank you propose. In using 30"L x 18"W x 24"H, I come up with a tank of 56 US Gallons (56.10G), fairly close to yours. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32229	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

OK, Steve, are you arguing that danios are a nonnative species, or an invasive nonnative species? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora, A non-native species is any species found outside of its natural range. Many trout are actually invasive non-native species, since Fish & Wildlife Departments trout to many streams and rivers where they would not normally be found to enhance the fishing experience of fishermen. Fish, and other critters, do not need to come from outside the country to become invasive non-native species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Don't know if it's your definition, Lenny. An invasive non-native species is a species that is not native to this country establishing thriving populations in the wild that are actively causing harm to the existing ecosystem. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they're also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren't any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32230	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Then try signing your name to your e-mails, Mike. I actually looked for it before I called you Deenerz. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Hey Nut, I asked you numerous times to call me by my name "Mike" and not an email address. -Mike Sorry, no pythons. If there were six pythons, they would not be an invasive species. Jsut pythons doing their thing. To be sure I wouldn't want them there, but five pythons in my house isn't a thriving wild population nor a threat to the ecosystem. Maybe they escaped from teh zoo, or maybe Lenny and Deenerz brought them by. Or maybe it's just Texas. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 6:30 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Sorry, no pythons. If there were six pythons, they would not be an invasive species. Jsut pythons doing their thing. To be sure I wouldn't want them there, but five pythons in my house isn't a thriving wild population nor a threat to the ecosystem. Maybe they escaped from teh zoo, or maybe Lenny and Deenerz brought them by. Or maybe it's just Texas. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information But Lenny, she works. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 6:54 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they’re also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren’t any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32231	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle

Hi Lenny, Yes, I too did not pay much attention to the subject line, as the question dealt directly to BioSpira. Now, funny thing you should mention Nutrifin Cycle, as this is one product that needs addressing since its so misunderstood by most hobbyists. Supposedly, it will work -- EVENTUALLY, but it takes a good deal of time; almost as much time (if not, more) than regular cycling takes -- 4 to 6 weeks -- its not an "instant" cycle product by any means. Nutrifin Cycle contains very little nitrifying bacteria, and of course what nitrifying bacteria it does contain is often decimated to a small population (or completely dead) by the time the product is bought since, as we know, it can't survive that long without a source of oxygen. This product contains some five different bacteria; of these five, most (four) of them are Heterotropic with one being Lithotrophic (Chemolithotrophic). Heterotrophic bacteria feed on dead organic matter (dead plant matter, fish food, etc.) -- note, NOT on organic waste matter (ammonia) -- so this first has to be broken down before ammonia can be released. Additionally, Heterotrophic bacteria can be either aerobic or anaerobic, which is not usually the ideal condition we want in an aquarium. Nitrifying bacteria are Autotrophic -- the Lithotrophs are one class of them, and will break down organic waste matter (ammonia), but is not in one of the class of Autotrophic (Nitrobacter, Nitrospira and Nitrosomonas) bacteria we need in our filter populations, although they do help. Lithotrophs can also be either aerobic or anaerobic -- probably how some survive a lengthy shelf life. Our Autotrophic bacteria eventually do start colonizing, partially due to these other bacteria starting to break down food for them, but then, they would also eventually start colonizing on their own. So, yes, Nutrafin Cycle "works" but sure doesn't promote a cycle much faster than not using it at all. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You know... I read the OP and replied but never paid much attention to the > subject line until now. Nutrafin Cycle wasn't even mentioned in the OP, > only Bio-Spira. I've tried it several years ago and Nutrafin Cycle doesn't > work at all and/or is definitely NOT in the league with products like Dr. > Tim's One And Only or Bio-Spira (and hopefully Tetra hasn't screwed it up > too much with changing it to Safe Start). > > Nutrafin Cycle was out as a product long before Dr. Tim invented Bio-Spira > and then he had a patent on the process for 10 years, until recently, so > maybe Nutrafin has copied the technology but I haven't seen anything > purporting that. The problem with many of these products is that if they do > change their products now, they would be admitting that their products never > really worked for the past 10+ years. > > That's the same quandary that many goldfish profiles/care sheets have on the > internet. They've been recommending such small volumes of water for > goldfish for so long, they don't want to admit that they've been wrong for > all these years so they keep pushing their BAD information.... kind of like > the scientists that called Christopher Columbus and other explorers crazy > for claiming the earth was round. Those "flat earth" scientists didn't want > to admit they were wrong about it being flat. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris Johnson > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle > > thanks :) > > ________________________________ > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:38:09 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle > > Where did you ever get the idea that we don't like the bottled bacteria? I > don't recall anyone posting anything to that effect, unless I missed it. > This is the ONLY source of nitrifying bacteria we DO recommend. They most > certainly do not make cycling harder at all; again, another misconception. > If anything, they make cycling essentially effortless. > > You would use one of these products in anticipation of introducing your fish > soon afterwards, that's the idea of getting it -- so that you have > practically an "instant" cycle, or extremely soon thereafter. In the absence > of food and/or fish supply food, yes, this live bacteria will die off (or > die back in population), as any other living organism will. The object of > using it is so you will be adding your fish soon afterwards, which will > continue to feed these bacteria. Yes, the filter will "catch" these bacteria > asbthat is where they will populate - > - on surfaces offering the best continuous supply of oxygen and food -- with > the constant flow of water running past them. > > If you can't find BioSpira, look for "Dr Tim's One and Only," the latest > product of this sort. Both products were developed by Dr. > Timothy A. Hanovec, the latter (and newest) one offered by Dr. > Hanovec's firm -- Dr. Tim's Aquatics. This product ("Dr Tim's One and > Only") can be found at Drs Foster & Smith on-line aquatic supply house. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Chris" <crjm28@> wrote: > > > > okay so you guys don't like the bottles of bacteria for cycling tanks. > > You say that you don't believe they are effective, but lenny likes > > bio-spira. Thats fine, but what I don't understand is how do they make > > cycling harder? If there is a live culture that starts working > > immediatly, do they die off soon as the food supply is used, or do > > they just die? The fish and food always put out ammonia, and would the > > filter catch the bacteria and keep them there? I don't get it. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:11:09 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:37:58 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32232	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Help needed with gallon size please

I looked at the GlassCages.com list of standard tanks for both glass and acrylic. I figured they matched All-Glass but I didn't look at All-Glass to see they still had the 37G. But still, the OP said "not tall" so I was looking at tanks up to 16" to 18" tall. Since they also mentioned 20G, I figured the 30" x 12" 20G Long tank was what they were looking for. I did just peek at the Aqueon "All-Glass" tank page http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/standard-aquariums.htm and see they do have the 37G with the 30" x 12" footprint and I now see the 36G bowfront 30" x 15" footprint http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/bow-front.htm but I still consider them "tall" tanks since most standard lighting would not penetrate down sufficiently to any plants on the bottom. Well, in any case, I'm sure the OP has information overload now but at least they know their options. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please The largest standard tank that I find (in All-Glass Aquarium's catalog) that will fit this footprint is 30"L x 12"W x 22"H -- a 37 Gallon tank. A 36 Gallon Bowfront (30"L x 15"W x 20"H) would also fit. The last time I talked to Tom at Glass Cages when he was making up a dozen custom tanks for me, he said that he would make any size I needed just so that it could use a standard frame. This would rule out a 30"L x 18"W tank that I mentioned to \\Steve// since there's no standard frame that size. That would have to be home-made -- or else go to acrylic. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure how you're getting it up in the 50G range with a 32" x 19" tabletop > footprint, since standard tanks fitting within that footprint would have to > be a 30" x 12" footprint... unless you are thinking of a tall to really tall > custom tank and she said "not tall". A 29G is the largest tank I can think > of, other than a custom tank, that would fit in the footprint and then it > would only have the 30" x 12" footprint. > > Here's a page of "Standard UK Tank Sizes" > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks-uk.htm > <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks-uk.htm> but I think it has a typo for > a 29G since it has a 36 x 12 x 18 and that adds up to a 33.66G tank so I'm > sure they made a typo where it should be 30 x 12 x 18... the standard 29G > tall tank. > > Even if she was going to try a tall tank, that would require a new top on > the TV stand to make it a 36" x 18" footprint which would then allow for a > 50G Tall, a 70G Tall or 90G Tall (In US gallons). I consider any tank > getting over the 16" to 18" height starting to get into the tall tank range > since normal aquarium lighting will not be able to give sufficient lighting > to low level plants at the bottom of that depth and tall tanks are much > harder to service and do not provide comparable room for the fish unless you > truly went with a set of bottom dwellers, then a set of middle dwellers and > a set of surface dwellers but then the surface area would have to have a LOT > of agitation to allow for adequate gas exchange. > > Of course, these higher volume tanks would also require a much sturdier > piece of furniture since the TV stand might not be able to handle the weight > of the larger tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please > > Lenny, > > 1 gallon (UK) = 1.200949926 gallon (US) > 45 gallon (UK) = 54.042746648 gallon (US) > > Based on that conversion, I do not see how a 55 gallon (US) would fit in the > allotted space, because leaving just 1" on each side, I get a capacity of > 57+ gallons. She would not have room for a filter, unless a canister was > used, and holes drilled for the tubing, nor a lighting fixture. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please > > My understanding is that a UK gallon is bigger than a USA gallon so I'm not > sure how your LFS could be saying a 45G UK would fit on that stand... > unless > it was a really tall tank.... or unless they have a standard tank size over > there with a 30" x 18" footprint and even that would have to be a tall tank > to handle 45G UK. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help needed with gallon size please > > Spoke to the man at my local aquarium over the phone just before, and we're > talking UK gallons. He recons i can have a 45 gal (Not tall) > > > > > Hi all. > Okay. These are the absolute maximum perimeters of the surface that I am > intending to put the new tank on. > It's not a unit that has been specifically made for a tank. It currently > holds my tv. But I believe it will be strong enough. I will post a picture > of the unit in just a moment. > > But I would like to know if any of you can determine what the volume in > gallons would be. > > It is 49cm - 19 inches in Width > 83cm - 32 inch in Length > 68cm - 26 inches in height > > Now. Obviously the tank itself will be a couple of inches smaller then that. > But what do you think? > Could I get a 20gal tank on there? > Thanks > Lisa > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/30/2008 > 10:43:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 4:39:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 6:47:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32233	From: William J. Scott	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Give it up on the Danios for goodness sake. We need to change the thread. Bill -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 10/31/08 04:06:07 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information OK, Steve, are you arguing that danios are a nonnative species, or an invasive nonnative species? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora, A non-native species is any species found outside of its natural range. Many trout are actually invasive non-native species, since Fish & Wildlife Departments trout to many streams and rivers where they would not normally be found to enhance the fishing experience of fishermen. Fish, and other critters, do not need to come from outside the country to become invasive non-native species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Don't know if it's your definition, Lenny. An invasive non-native species is a species that is not native to this country establishing thriving populations in the wild that are actively causing harm to the existing ecosystem. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they're also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren't any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North_Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_kingdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records.php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F2008+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32234	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle

wow. my eyes kinda glazed over on that one, but I think I understand. Thanks :) ________________________________ From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 7:20:34 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle Hi Lenny, Yes, I too did not pay much attention to the subject line, as the question dealt directly to BioSpira. Now, funny thing you should mention Nutrifin Cycle, as this is one product that needs addressing since its so misunderstood by most hobbyists. Supposedly, it will work -- EVENTUALLY, but it takes a good deal of time; almost as much time (if not, more) than regular cycling takes -- 4 to 6 weeks -- its not an "instant" cycle product by any means. Nutrifin Cycle contains very little nitrifying bacteria, and of course what nitrifying bacteria it does contain is often decimated to a small population (or completely dead) by the time the product is bought since, as we know, it can't survive that long without a source of oxygen. This product contains some five different bacteria; of these five, most (four) of them are Heterotropic with one being Lithotrophic (Chemolithotrophic) . Heterotrophic bacteria feed on dead organic matter (dead plant matter, fish food, etc.) -- note, NOT on organic waste matter (ammonia) -- so this first has to be broken down before ammonia can be released. Additionally, Heterotrophic bacteria can be either aerobic or anaerobic, which is not usually the ideal condition we want in an aquarium. Nitrifying bacteria are Autotrophic -- the Lithotrophs are one class of them, and will break down organic waste matter (ammonia), but is not in one of the class of Autotrophic (Nitrobacter, Nitrospira and Nitrosomonas) bacteria we need in our filter populations, although they do help. Lithotrophs can also be either aerobic or anaerobic -- probably how some survive a lengthy shelf life. Our Autotrophic bacteria eventually do start colonizing, partially due to these other bacteria starting to break down food for them, but then, they would also eventually start colonizing on their own. So, yes, Nutrafin Cycle "works" but sure doesn't promote a cycle much faster than not using it at all. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > You know... I read the OP and replied but never paid much attention to the > subject line until now. Nutrafin Cycle wasn't even mentioned in the OP, > only Bio-Spira. I've tried it several years ago and Nutrafin Cycle doesn't > work at all and/or is definitely NOT in the league with products like Dr. > Tim's One And Only or Bio-Spira (and hopefully Tetra hasn't screwed it up > too much with changing it to Safe Start). > > Nutrafin Cycle was out as a product long before Dr. Tim invented Bio-Spira > and then he had a patent on the process for 10 years, until recently, so > maybe Nutrafin has copied the technology but I haven't seen anything > purporting that. The problem with many of these products is that if they do > change their products now, they would be admitting that their products never > really worked for the past 10+ years. > > That's the same quandary that many goldfish profiles/care sheets have on the > internet. They've been recommending such small volumes of water for > goldfish for so long, they don't want to admit that they've been wrong for > all these years so they keep pushing their BAD information. ... kind of like > the scientists that called Christopher Columbus and other explorers crazy > for claiming the earth was round. Those "flat earth" scientists didn't want > to admit they were wrong about it being flat. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Chris Johnson > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle > > thanks :) > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ... > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:38:09 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle > > Where did you ever get the idea that we don't like the bottled bacteria? I > don't recall anyone posting anything to that effect, unless I missed it. > This is the ONLY source of nitrifying bacteria we DO recommend. They most > certainly do not make cycling harder at all; again, another misconception. > If anything, they make cycling essentially effortless. > > You would use one of these products in anticipation of introducing your fish > soon afterwards, that's the idea of getting it -- so that you have > practically an "instant" cycle, or extremely soon thereafter. In the absence > of food and/or fish supply food, yes, this live bacteria will die off (or > die back in population), as any other living organism will. The object of > using it is so you will be adding your fish soon afterwards, which will > continue to feed these bacteria. Yes, the filter will "catch" these bacteria > asbthat is where they will populate - > - on surfaces offering the best continuous supply of oxygen and food -- with > the constant flow of water running past them. > > If you can't find BioSpira, look for "Dr Tim's One and Only," the latest > product of this sort. Both products were developed by Dr. > Timothy A. Hanovec, the latter (and newest) one offered by Dr. > Hanovec's firm -- Dr. Tim's Aquatics. This product ("Dr Tim's One and > Only") can be found at Drs Foster & Smith on-line aquatic supply house. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Chris" <crjm28@> wrote: > > > > okay so you guys don't like the bottles of bacteria for cycling tanks. > > You say that you don't believe they are effective, but lenny likes > > bio-spira. Thats fine, but what I don't understand is how do they make > > cycling harder? If there is a live culture that starts working > > immediatly, do they die off soon as the food supply is used, or do > > they just die? The fish and food always put out ammonia, and would the > > filter catch the bacteria and keep them there? I don't get it. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 6:11:09 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 > Tested on: 10/30/2008 7:37:58 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32235	From: bill1433	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?

Good Morning Ray, � Thanks for the response BUT������.. � If you have seen my return to Len you already know that a �Serious or Actual Water test has not been performed due to the lack of the test kit itself, it will be here later next week. � That being said, I don�t even know where or how to start establishing a �baseline�, as you folks call it.� SO���������. � As soon as I get my hands on it, comments as to the actual proper procedure to follow and the where�s, when�s and how�s will all fall to Lenny and others (including yourself I�m hoping) to get me on the proper road.� Up front, I am assuming from Len�s posted message that I should let my water run a bit before taking any tests on it.� As soon as we begin, an Excel Spread Sheet will be used to document and keep record of all testing being done. � I am remaining hopeful here but with my copper pipes leaking from time to time its obvious that some type of something will have to be done to keep fish.� My biggest worry is to what extent and at what cost this can be accomplished.� I should also mention that I was interested in your comments about Glass Cages. Having a long-distance plan here, I gave them a call the other day about questions on tanks in general.� They seemed like very nice people to deal with. After assessing the �used tank market� (cragslist and others) I can tell you that finding a �bargain� doesn�t seem that likely and so if I can keep fish here, I�ll probably be using what they call a 50 Tall 36 x 18 x 17 at around $92, then the extra�s cover, light, etc.� This is the largest tank I can both afford and handle due to my space limitations. � Thanks for your return, � Bill --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: About Cichlids? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 6:14 AM Bill, I had forgotten about your hard, alkaline water until Lenny threw out that reminder just now. These fish all come from soft water, two species (Keyholes and Rams) coming from soft, slightly alkaline waters of Venezuela and the third (Kribensis) coming from soft slightly acid water of West Africa (Cameroon). I forget exactly what your water parameters are, but while the Keyholes and Kribs may adapt, the gold "German" Rams (Microgeophagus ramirezi) are more demanding and will not thrive. You may want to consider going to Bolivian Rams (Microgeophagus altispinosus) which are more adaptable - - similar in some respects, just as peaceful, but gets to 3" rather than the 2" for the Gold Rams -- which you'd have to consider in the stocking level. Depending on your parameters though, none might not been candidates for your water if its tending to the extreme. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > � > Thanks Ray!!------- --------- --------- --------- ----It's in the notebook. > � > Bill > > --- On Thu, 10/30/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: About Cichlids? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > When housing Cichlids, even though the largest of these are not much > more than 3", you can't use the questionable 1" of fish per > gallon "rule" which, when normally used, should only include fish up > to this size anyway. With Cichlids, you need to consider their needs > beyond just the amount of water to comfortably/ safely sustain them, > especially if they decide to pair off and spawn (usually > unavoidable) . > > It is not unusual to allow the 30 gallon tank to house just one > breeding pair of these fish, even though a pair would be fine in a 15 > or 20. There is no reason why these three species should not > otherwise get along together though; all are for the most part, > peaceful. About the most aggressive species of the 3 is the P. > pulcher, and of them, it would be the female when she is guarding a > spawn of eggs. At these times, the other species will be "persuaded" > to occupy the opposite end of the tank from where the female Kribenis > has spawned, but then this can be said if any other of these species > spawn. Although they are peaceful, it is these Cichlids' nature to > guard their spawn against any intruders -- and by "intruders," it is > meant of any fish in the vicinity of the pairs' territory at the time > (which could be up to half the tank). > > If you want to try keeping these 3 species together, and you're > counting on them not spawning (which can be minimized by temperatures > towards the lower part of their range, even if not completely > eliminated), the maximum amount you could have would be 3 (1 male, 2 > female) Kribensis, 3 Keyhole Cichlids and 5 or 6 Rams which would max > out the tanks' capacity. But as previously stated, you'll want to > give them a little elbow room, so you should plan on whittling this > down somewhat to a pair of Kribs, a pair of Keyholes and 2 pairs of > Rams. > > As nothing "boisterous" will occur before pairing up, and since the > tank has the potential sustainable capacity, it should be quite > workable to start with the first plan of a near-capacity load -- > adding the fish slowly so as not to overload the cycling capacity -- > and in this way offer each species a small selection to choose mates > from for best compatability of each species. Once mates are chosen, > you can then cut back from 3 individuals of the species to 2, > eliminated the odd one. Likewise with the 5 or 6 Rams; as they pair > up, return the one or two odd ones to the store, retaining only the > two pairs (or one pair, if you prefer). > > Once you have compatible pairs, the community as a whole will be more > stable; each species will act as the other's "dither" fish -- > a "dither" fish is one that distracts the fish of subject (subject, > being the species of your focus at the moment). Each species > will "cover" each other in this manner. Distracting fish are helpful > in any Cichlid grouping (or even just in Cichlid pairs), even if not > essential with peaceful Cichlids such as these; they draw the > attention of each pair towards the other pairs, which in turn draws > the attention of a pair away from each other just enough so that any > male of a pair will not get overly "rambunctious" towards its mate. > You may and should expect some bickering between species from time to > time, but I don't see any damage being done. They will learn to stay > out of each others' way when it comes down to it. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > � > > Since there seems to be a "Lull" in the action for a moment.� I'd > like to ask some fishy questions? > > � > > There are three fish that I have never kept:� The Keyhole Cichlid - > Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue > or Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). > > � > > Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along > together in a 30-gallon tank?� If so how many of each or > recommendations as to up keep. > > � > > Thanks, > > � > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32236	From: bill1433	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Another �Bill� here!� I vote with you but I�m wondering what is the point to all of this and what does it have to do with fish keeping in General?� Or is this the �Pandora�s Box�?� What is the point to all of this? Is this information necessary to get on the �Hollywood Squares�?� Or as the kids say, �What�s Up With That�? � Bill --- On Fri, 10/31/08, William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> wrote: From: William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 7:34 AM Give it up on the Danios for goodness sake. We need to change the thread. Bill -------Original Message----- -- From: Dora Smith Date: 10/31/08 04:06:07 To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information OK, Steve, are you arguing that danios are a nonnative species, or an invasive nonnative species? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora, A non-native species is any species found outside of its natural range. Many trout are actually invasive non-native species, since Fish & Wildlife Departments trout to many streams and rivers where they would not normally be found to enhance the fishing experience of fishermen. Fish, and other critters, do not need to come from outside the country to become invasive non-native species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Don't know if it's your definition, Lenny. An invasive non-native species is a species that is not native to this country establishing thriving populations in the wild that are actively causing harm to the existing ecosystem. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1. ifas.ufl. edu/guide/ invplant. html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they're also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, � 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora) , a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat.. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren't any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes. net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great- lakes.net/ teach/glossary/ #nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great- lakes.net/ teach/glossary/ #invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@ pure.net <mailto:henrypuryea r%40pure. net> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20o?search= Brachydanio+ rerio&guide= North_Ame rican_Invasives& flags=HAS: <http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20o?search= Brachydanio+ rerio&guide= North_Ame rican_Invasives& flags=HAS: > "http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20o?search= Brachydanio+ rerio&guide= North_Ame rican_Invasives& flags=HAS: <http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20o?search= Brachydanio+ rerio&guide= North_Ame rican_Invasives& flags=HAS: > Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20q?go= http://www. itis.usda. gov/servlet/ Sing leRpt/SingleRpt% 3Fsearch_ topic%3DTSN% 26search_ value%3D163668% 26search_ kingdo m%3Devery%26search_ span%3Dexactly_ for%26categories %3DAll%26source% 3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating% 3DAll <http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20q?go= http://www. itis.usda. gov/servlet/ Sing leRpt/SingleRpt% 3Fsearch_ topic%3DTSN% 26search_ value%3D163668% 26search_ kingdo m%3Devery%26search_ span%3Dexactly_ for%26categories %3DAll%26source% 3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating% 3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12- 13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B ..albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess.. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days.. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20q?go= http://nis. gsmfc.org/ nis_records. php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20q?go= http://nis. gsmfc.org/ nis_records. php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991).. Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195- 204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com"Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com"Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r= <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r=> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r= <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com"GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/ <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/ <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though).. Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com"goldlenny@gmail. com <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com"'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ , <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ ,> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ , <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ ,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/ <http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/> "http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/ <http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars- at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com"goldlenny@gmail. com <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com"'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com"steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com"steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com"GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32237	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin

Hi all, I have been reading this thread with much interest since I use a cycle product and was told when got my first tank how much easier and healthier it makes things if you plan to add fish right away, which I did. I didnt see the product called "Cycle" by Haagen (I think thats the name of the company). I was using this but have since switched to a generic version, the Petco brand no-name called just "Bacteria" becuase the labels for both products where the same,and I asked around and indeed it seems to be true! I save soooo much money now since a large bottle of the Petco stuff is like 5 bucks, compared to the high prices of just a tiny little thing of Cycle. Does anyone else have feedback on either of these/used or use them now? I was told to add a small amount with my weekly 10-20% water changes and cleaning (I keep a clean tank - with goldfish its a constant battle,but mine really are not half as "dirty" as I got "warned" they would be!). Is this good? I add it once Im done, if I dont change any water I still add a little once a week. Both my tanks are under 6 months old. Any input would be great! Thanks everyone! HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!! Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32238	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: About Cichlids?

Bill, Go to my blog and read my article "Find your tap/source water baseline". I think I explain it in easy step-by-step terms. Leave me a comment if something doesn't make sense so I can fix it. You know how that is when you read your own writings, they look perfect... but then the editor or teacher gets hold of it and dang... what's with all the red ink? lol If you want to post your numbers online so you can point others to your test results, Badman's Tropical Fish has that feature available on their website. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/tankstats/ Once you've registered with them, you can then direct someone to this page http://badmanstropicalfish.com/tankstats/startpub.php and give them your User Name (Mine is GoldLenny if you want to see mine. Once you get to my page, click on the Tank Stats icon on the right of my name to open the page) and then they can view your Tank Stats. I set it up back in 2005 but then Hurricane Katrina hit and between that, my biz and trying to goof off as much as possible, I didn't keep it updated and they had a system error in 2007 where all the tank stat's info was lost but you can still see all of the sections where you can keep track of all of your tank stats and then make them available to others if needed. I'm not sure how many people keep up with it on a permanent basis but it's good for tracking a Fishless Cycle or a newbie's tank and if you are getting help in a forum so you can let others see your stats more easily. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: About Cichlids? Good Morning Ray, Thanks for the response BUT .. If you have seen my return to Len you already know that a “Serious or Actual Water test has not been performed due to the lack of the test kit itself, it will be here later next week. That being said, I don’t even know where or how to start establishing a “baseline”, as you folks call it. SO . As soon as I get my hands on it, comments as to the actual proper procedure to follow and the where’s, when’s and how’s will all fall to Lenny and others (including yourself I’m hoping) to get me on the proper road. Up front, I am assuming from Len’s posted message that I should let my water run a bit before taking any tests on it. As soon as we begin, an Excel Spread Sheet will be used to document and keep record of all testing being done. I am remaining hopeful here but with my copper pipes leaking from time to time its obvious that some type of something will have to be done to keep fish. My biggest worry is to what extent and at what cost this can be accomplished. I should also mention that I was interested in your comments about Glass Cages. Having a long-distance plan here, I gave them a call the other day about questions on tanks in general. They seemed like very nice people to deal with. After assessing the “used tank market” (cragslist and others) I can tell you that finding a “bargain” doesn’t seem that likely and so if I can keep fish here, I’ll probably be using what they call a 50 Tall 36 x 18 x 17 at around $92, then the extra’s cover, light, etc. This is the largest tank I can both afford and handle due to my space limitations. Thanks for your return, Bill --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: About Cichlids? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 6:14 AM Bill, I had forgotten about your hard, alkaline water until Lenny threw out that reminder just now. These fish all come from soft water, two species (Keyholes and Rams) coming from soft, slightly alkaline waters of Venezuela and the third (Kribensis) coming from soft slightly acid water of West Africa (Cameroon). I forget exactly what your water parameters are, but while the Keyholes and Kribs may adapt, the gold "German" Rams (Microgeophagus ramirezi) are more demanding and will not thrive. You may want to consider going to Bolivian Rams (Microgeophagus altispinosus) which are more adaptable - - similar in some respects, just as peaceful, but gets to 3" rather than the 2" for the Gold Rams -- which you'd have to consider in the stocking level. Depending on your parameters though, none might not been candidates for your water if its tending to the extreme. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > Thanks Ray!!------- --------- --------- --------- ----It's in the notebook. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 10/30/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: About Cichlids? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > When housing Cichlids, even though the largest of these are not much > more than 3", you can't use the questionable 1" of fish per gallon > "rule" which, when normally used, should only include fish up > to this size anyway. With Cichlids, you need to consider their needs > beyond just the amount of water to comfortably/ safely sustain them, > especially if they decide to pair off and spawn (usually > unavoidable) . > > It is not unusual to allow the 30 gallon tank to house just one > breeding pair of these fish, even though a pair would be fine in a 15 > or 20. There is no reason why these three species should not otherwise > get along together though; all are for the most part, peaceful. About > the most aggressive species of the 3 is the P. > pulcher, and of them, it would be the female when she is guarding a > spawn of eggs. At these times, the other species will be "persuaded" > to occupy the opposite end of the tank from where the female Kribenis > has spawned, but then this can be said if any other of these species > spawn. Although they are peaceful, it is these Cichlids' nature to > guard their spawn against any intruders -- and by "intruders," it is > meant of any fish in the vicinity of the pairs' territory at the time > (which could be up to half the tank). > > If you want to try keeping these 3 species together, and you're > counting on them not spawning (which can be minimized by temperatures > towards the lower part of their range, even if not completely > eliminated), the maximum amount you could have would be 3 (1 male, 2 > female) Kribensis, 3 Keyhole Cichlids and 5 or 6 Rams which would max > out the tanks' capacity. But as previously stated, you'll want to give > them a little elbow room, so you should plan on whittling this down > somewhat to a pair of Kribs, a pair of Keyholes and 2 pairs of Rams. > > As nothing "boisterous" will occur before pairing up, and since the > tank has the potential sustainable capacity, it should be quite > workable to start with the first plan of a near-capacity load -- > adding the fish slowly so as not to overload the cycling capacity -- > and in this way offer each species a small selection to choose mates > from for best compatability of each species. Once mates are chosen, > you can then cut back from 3 individuals of the species to 2, > eliminated the odd one. Likewise with the 5 or 6 Rams; as they pair > up, return the one or two odd ones to the store, retaining only the > two pairs (or one pair, if you prefer). > > Once you have compatible pairs, the community as a whole will be more > stable; each species will act as the other's "dither" fish -- a > "dither" fish is one that distracts the fish of subject (subject, > being the species of your focus at the moment). Each species will > "cover" each other in this manner. Distracting fish are helpful > in any Cichlid grouping (or even just in Cichlid pairs), even if not > essential with peaceful Cichlids such as these; they draw the > attention of each pair towards the other pairs, which in turn draws > the attention of a pair away from each other just enough so that any > male of a pair will not get overly "rambunctious" towards its mate. > You may and should expect some bickering between species from time to > time, but I don't see any damage being done. They will learn to stay > out of each others' way when it comes down to it. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Since there seems to be a "Lull" in the action for a moment. I'd > like to ask some fishy questions? > > > > There are three fish that I have never kept: The Keyhole Cichlid - > Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue > or Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). > > > > Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along > together in a 30-gallon tank? If so how many of each or > recommendations as to up keep. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 9:49:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 10:03:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32239	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin

It's not needed and probably doesn't work anyhow. Save your $5.00 next time... but if you have money to waste, I'll be happy to give you my mailing address! LOL Even the good products that really work, like Dr. Tim's One And Only and the former Bio-Spira... they direct you to use the entire bottle or the proportionate amount for a smaller tank, and then it's never needed again... because it actually works and fully cycle's a new tank for a moderate bioload of adult fish or full bioload of juvi fish. Any so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle that really works would add living bacteria and then the bacteria would continue to grow as needed so there would be no reason to have to continue adding it. This is another argument where they basically are admitting their product doesn't work as advertised. There's really no logic to having to add these "cycle" products in an ongoing weekly basis. That's just the company's being greedy to sell more product... much like the filter companies direct people to change their filter cartridges every couple of weeks or once a month. This is actually BAD information and directions and causes people to put their tanks into mini-cycles when they do this. When Dr. Tim first invented Bio-Spira, it had to be shipped and stored refrigerated as it had real live bacteria in the package and it had to be refrigerated to keep the bacteria alive. Since he first invented it 10 years or so ago, they have come up with new technology where they encapsulate the bacteria so it stays alive at room temperature for several months (up to 6) so stores are now more willing to carry it in inventory. It was tough to find a store that sold Bio-Spira since they didn't want to have to have a retail refrigerator. Most folks had to buy it online which then raised the price even more due to the overnight shipping and insulated packaging. The only product that needs to be used on a weekly basis is a dechlor product when doing PWC's. Then if someone has a heavily planted tank or specialty tank and needs to add fertilizers or other specialty products to replace certain trace elements in those types of tanks.... but there's no reason to use all of the stress-this or slime-that type products... especially not on an ongoing basis. It's just adding unnecessary chemicals to our closed ecosystems. Goldfish are no dirtier than any other fish of proportionate size. The problem comes when goldfish are crammed into undersized tanks. A single adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish and yet many websites and books will advise putting a goldfish in a few gallons of water or maybe even 10 gallons of water... and YES.. in such small volumes of water, goldfish will be "dirty" fish. But in a proper sized aquarium with proper filtration, etc., they are not more dirty than any other fish. A 6" to 8" fancy goldfish has the same body mass as a fish like an Oscar, Common Pleco, etc., except they don't swim around as much or as fast, but you'd never find intelligent people saying it's OK to put an Oscar or a Common Pleco in a 10G tank... but so many sources still give those BAD recommendations about the poor goldfish... probably the most abused fish in the hobby. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin Hi all, I have been reading this thread with much interest since I use a cycle product and was told when got my first tank how much easier and healthier it makes things if you plan to add fish right away, which I did. I didnt see the product called "Cycle" by Haagen (I think thats the name of the company). I was using this but have since switched to a generic version, the Petco brand no-name called just "Bacteria" becuase the labels for both products where the same,and I asked around and indeed it seems to be true! I save soooo much money now since a large bottle of the Petco stuff is like 5 bucks, compared to the high prices of just a tiny little thing of Cycle. Does anyone else have feedback on either of these/used or use them now? I was told to add a small amount with my weekly 10-20% water changes and cleaning (I keep a clean tank - with goldfish its a constant battle,but mine really are not half as "dirty" as I got "warned" they would be!). Is this good? I add it once Im done, if I dont change any water I still add a little once a week. Both my tanks are under 6 months old. Any input would be great! Thanks everyone! HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!! Dr. Katie Craft _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-0, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 10:25:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

It started out when discussing Blood Parrot Cichlids (a hybrid) and GloFish (the genetically enhanced Zebra Danio) and then "Dora's Box" (not Pandora's.. lol) opened up and once again, here we are. Your kids might have said "What's up with that?" but mine says "You must be on crack!" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Another “Bill” here! I vote with you but I’m wondering what is the point to all of this and what does it have to do with fish keeping in General? Or is this the “Pandora’s Box”? What is the point to all of this? Is this information necessary to get on the “Hollywood Squares”? Or as the kids say, “What’s Up With That”? Bill --- On Fri, 10/31/08, William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> wrote: From: William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 7:34 AM Give it up on the Danios for goodness sake. We need to change the thread. Bill -------Original Message----- -- From: Dora Smith Date: 10/31/08 04:06:07 To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information OK, Steve, are you arguing that danios are a nonnative species, or an invasive nonnative species? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora, A non-native species is any species found outside of its natural range. Many trout are actually invasive non-native species, since Fish & Wildlife Departments trout to many streams and rivers where they would not normally be found to enhance the fishing experience of fishermen. Fish, and other critters, do not need to come from outside the country to become invasive non-native species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Don't know if it's your definition, Lenny. An invasive non-native species is a species that is not native to this country establishing thriving populations in the wild that are actively causing harm to the existing ecosystem. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1. ifas.ufl. edu/guide/ invplant. html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they're also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, © 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora) , a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat.. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren't any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes. net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great- lakes.net/ teach/glossary/ #nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great- lakes.net/ teach/glossary/ #invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@ pure.net <mailto:henrypuryea r%40pure. net> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20o?search= Brachydanio+ rerio&guide= North_Ame rican_Invasives& flags=HAS: <http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20o?search= Brachydanio+ rerio <http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20o?search= Brachydanio+ rerio&guide= North_Ame rican_Invasives& flags=HAS:> &guide= North_Ame rican_Invasives& flags=HAS: > "http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20o?search= Brachydanio+ rerio&guide= North_Ame rican_Invasives& flags=HAS: <http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20o?search= Brachydanio+ rerio <http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20o?search= Brachydanio+ rerio&guide= North_Ame rican_Invasives& flags=HAS:> &guide= North_Ame rican_Invasives& flags=HAS: > Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20q?go= http://www. itis.usda. gov/servlet/ Sing leRpt/SingleRpt% 3Fsearch_ topic%3DTSN% 26search_ value%3D163668% 26search_ kingdo m%3Devery%26search_ span%3Dexactly_ for%26categories %3DAll%26source% 3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating% 3DAll <http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20q?go= http://www. itis.usda. gov/servlet/ Sing leRpt/SingleRpt% 3Fsearch_ topic%3DTSN% 26search_ value%3D163668% 26search_ kingdo m%3Devery%26search_ span%3Dexactly_ for%26categories %3DAll%26source% 3Dhtml%26s earch_credRating% 3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12- 13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B ..albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess.. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days.. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20q?go= http://nis. gsmfc.org/ nis_records. php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discover life.org/ mp/20q?go= http://nis. gsmfc.org/ nis_records. php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991).. Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195- 204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com"Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com"Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber=> & SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r= <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber=> > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r=> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber=> & SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber= > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r= <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/collecti oninfo.asp? NoCache=10% 2F27%2F2008+ 12 %3A47%3A22+AM& SpeciesID= 505&State= CA&County= &HUCNumber=> > &SpeciesID=505& State=CA& County=&HUCNumbe r=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com"GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/ <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/ <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though).. Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com"goldlenny@gmail. com <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com"'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ , <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ ,> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ , <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ ,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ taxgroup/ fish/default. asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/SpeciesL ist.asp?Group= Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505> "http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505 <http://nas.er. usgs.gov/ queries/FactShee t.asp?speciesID= 505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/ <http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/> "http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/ <http://sofia. usgs.gov/ sfrsf/rooms/ species/invasive /focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars- at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com"goldlenny@gmail. com <mailto:goldlenny% 40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com"'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:%27AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com"steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com"steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc. org/nis_alphabet ic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/ <http://nis.gsmfc. org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc. org/What_ is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com"tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com"GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com"AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> "http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32241	From: bill1433	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: About Cichlids? To Lenny

Hi Len, � I should think that you would know me well enough by now, through our mails to pre-suppose that Bill is the type of person where by� �If it can go wrong -------it will�. � You�re dealing with a personality here with three distinct facets, as my wife describes me.� Clark W. Griswold (Christmas Vacation) the immortal Rodney Dangerfield (I don�t get no respect), and lastly, the Reverend Jim "Iggy" Ignatowski, played by Christopher Lloyd, from the television series Taxi (for my love of the oldies and Doo Wop music---------lost in the 60�s).� All three of these components go into making up �Bill�s� personality.� With all of that said, believe me if �anything is wrong with your �instructions� at all; if they are not laid out in the simplest of terms, I will truly find a stumbling block, believe me. � Now on your behalf, while all of this may sound very negative at first glance please consider this:� �If you and some of the other great people on this list can get me through this testing phase successfully and onto a livin� and thrivin� aquarium, then you can kick back, breath easy, and truly say, �We�ve Done It All�!� Of course, your not miracle workers either.� If the results point to extreme cost and filtering equipment, as I mentioned to Ray this morning, then I may have to just stand on the side-lines.� The test result�s will be posted right here for all to see and also for all to advise as the case may be.� But I�ll also follow those links too.� I believe that there is no such thing as too much help. � When you have the time, Onward! � Bill Bill, Go to my blog and read my article "Find your tap/source water baseline". I think I explain it in easy step-by-step terms. Leave me a comment if something doesn't make sense so I can fix it. You know how that is when you read your own writings, they look perfect... but then the editor or teacher gets hold of it and dang... what's with all the red ink? lol If you want to post your numbers online so you can point others to your test results, Badman's Tropical Fish has that feature available on their website.. http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ tankstats/ Once you've registered with them, you can then direct someone to this page http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ tankstats/ startpub. php and give them your User Name (Mine is GoldLenny if you want to see mine. Once you get to my page, click on the Tank Stats icon on the right of my name to open the page) and then they can view your Tank Stats. I set it up back in 2005 but then Hurricane Katrina hit and between that, my biz and trying to goof off as much as possible, I didn't keep it updated and they had a system error in 2007 where all the tank stat's info was lost but you can still see all of the sections where you can keep track of all of your tank stats and then make them available to others if needed. I'm not sure how many people keep up with it on a permanent basis but it's good for tracking a Fishless Cycle or a newbie's tank and if you are getting help in a forum so you can let others see your stats more easily. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:10 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: About Cichlids? Good Morning Ray, Thanks for the response BUT������.. If you have seen my return to Len you already know that a �Serious or Actual Water test has not been performed due to the lack of the test kit itself, it will be here later next week. That being said, I don�t even know where or how to start establishing a �baseline�, as you folks call it. SO���������. As soon as I get my hands on it, comments as to the actual proper procedure to follow and the where�s, when�s and how�s will all fall to Lenny and others (including yourself I�m hoping) to get me on the proper road. Up front, I am assuming from Len�s posted message that I should let my water run a bit before taking any tests on it. As soon as we begin, an Excel Spread Sheet will be used to document and keep record of all testing being done. I am remaining hopeful here but with my copper pipes leaking from time to time its obvious that some type of something will have to be done to keep fish. My biggest worry is to what extent and at what cost this can be accomplished. I should also mention that I was interested in your comments about Glass Cages. Having a long-distance plan here, I gave them a call the other day about questions on tanks in general. They seemed like very nice people to deal with. After assessing the �used tank market� (cragslist and others) I can tell you that finding a �bargain� doesn�t seem that likely and so if I can keep fish here, I�ll probably be using what they call a 50 Tall 36 x 18 x 17 at around $92, then the extra�s cover, light, etc. This is the largest tank I can both afford and handle due to my space limitations. Thanks for your return, Bill --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: About Cichlids? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 6:14 AM Bill, I had forgotten about your hard, alkaline water until Lenny threw out that reminder just now. These fish all come from soft water, two species (Keyholes and Rams) coming from soft, slightly alkaline waters of Venezuela and the third (Kribensis) coming from soft slightly acid water of West Africa (Cameroon). I forget exactly what your water parameters are, but while the Keyholes and Kribs may adapt, the gold "German" Rams (Microgeophagus ramirezi) are more demanding and will not thrive. You may want to consider going to Bolivian Rams (Microgeophagus altispinosus) which are more adaptable - - similar in some respects, just as peaceful, but gets to 3" rather than the 2" for the Gold Rams -- which you'd have to consider in the stocking level. Depending on your parameters though, none might not been candidates for your water if its tending to the extreme. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > Thanks Ray!!------- --------- --------- --------- ----It's in the notebook. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 10/30/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: About Cichlids? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > When housing Cichlids, even though the largest of these are not much > more than 3", you can't use the questionable 1" of fish per gallon > "rule" which, when normally used, should only include fish up > to this size anyway. With Cichlids, you need to consider their needs > beyond just the amount of water to comfortably/ safely sustain them, > especially if they decide to pair off and spawn (usually > unavoidable) . > > It is not unusual to allow the 30 gallon tank to house just one > breeding pair of these fish, even though a pair would be fine in a 15 > or 20. There is no reason why these three species should not otherwise > get along together though; all are for the most part, peaceful. About > the most aggressive species of the 3 is the P. > pulcher, and of them, it would be the female when she is guarding a > spawn of eggs. At these times, the other species will be "persuaded" > to occupy the opposite end of the tank from where the female Kribenis > has spawned, but then this can be said if any other of these species > spawn. Although they are peaceful, it is these Cichlids' nature to > guard their spawn against any intruders -- and by "intruders," it is > meant of any fish in the vicinity of the pairs' territory at the time > (which could be up to half the tank). > > If you want to try keeping these 3 species together, and you're > counting on them not spawning (which can be minimized by temperatures > towards the lower part of their range, even if not completely > eliminated), the maximum amount you could have would be 3 (1 male, 2 > female) Kribensis, 3 Keyhole Cichlids and 5 or 6 Rams which would max > out the tanks' capacity. But as previously stated, you'll want to give > them a little elbow room, so you should plan on whittling this down > somewhat to a pair of Kribs, a pair of Keyholes and 2 pairs of Rams. > > As nothing "boisterous" will occur before pairing up, and since the > tank has the potential sustainable capacity, it should be quite > workable to start with the first plan of a near-capacity load -- > adding the fish slowly so as not to overload the cycling capacity -- > and in this way offer each species a small selection to choose mates > from for best compatability of each species. Once mates are chosen, > you can then cut back from 3 individuals of the species to 2, > eliminated the odd one. Likewise with the 5 or 6 Rams; as they pair > up, return the one or two odd ones to the store, retaining only the > two pairs (or one pair, if you prefer). > > Once you have compatible pairs, the community as a whole will be more > stable; each species will act as the other's "dither" fish -- a > "dither" fish is one that distracts the fish of subject (subject, > being the species of your focus at the moment). Each species will > "cover" each other in this manner. Distracting fish are helpful > in any Cichlid grouping (or even just in Cichlid pairs), even if not > essential with peaceful Cichlids such as these; they draw the > attention of each pair towards the other pairs, which in turn draws > the attention of a pair away from each other just enough so that any > male of a pair will not get overly "rambunctious" towards its mate. > You may and should expect some bickering between species from time to > time, but I don't see any damage being done. They will learn to stay > out of each others' way when it comes down to it. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Since there seems to be a "Lull" in the action for a moment. I'd > like to ask some fishy questions? > > > > There are three fish that I have never kept: The Keyhole Cichlid - > Cleithracara maronii, Kribensis - Pelvicachromis pulcher and the Blue > or Gold Ram -(Microgeophagus ramirezi). > > > > Since these are all from the Cichlid family will they get along > together in a 30-gallon tank? If so how many of each or > recommendations as to up keep. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 9:49:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081030-0, 10/30/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 10:03:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32242	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Need Convict Cichlid Info!

Hey Guys, I just got another (my third!! Yipee!) tank from Craigs List and this one was totaly FREE! I pick it up tomorrow, its a long 30 gallon and it comes with a Convict Cichlid. I have never kept agressive fish before and was wondering if anyone could give me some tips for this breed. I'm doing research online now, but there is so much info, and I find actualy first hand experiance has the best advice - and I find that here. So that said, should I keep him alone, or can he be with other agressive fish? Could I get an Arowana with him? Whats the best food? I plan on keeping him at the same temp his previous owner was, he is over a year but Im not exactly sure. Im trying to decide if I will keep him, or bring him to a store to trade him in for something else. I would like to have more than just one fish in that tank. I was hoping to move some goldfish into that tank but I cant if I keep him. Is this breed an easy keeper? Are they a fun fish to watch? Help me decide guys. I need advice on this one! Thanks all! Blessings Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32243	From: bruce cohen	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: bio or nano?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > ok so i'm about to start my first saltwater tank, i like the nano cube > systems and the bio cubes, i am trying to weigh the advantages and > disadvatages to determine which one i buy, the nano is slightly > cheaper, the hood is hinged so it props itself open for cleaning and > has a larger feeding port which i like. the bio cube does not have a > hinged hood so it has to be removed for cleaning, the feeding port is > smaller, but the night lights and day lights are on dfferent switches > and different plugs so you can have them on alternating timers, unlike > the nano where the night/day lights have to be switched manually. so > which system would bebest to get? does anyone have any experience with > these? i would appreciate some good feedback thanks guys > i Have the nano cube and now I wish i had a diffrent system the lighting is one of the problems the other one is that the hinges are frail so they can break easy not a great design esp since mine has had to have all the electrical items replaced under a month most of it was just cause of the shipping damages i would recomend the red sea max as an alteritve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32244	From: joe t	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information THIS IS ACTUALLY GETTING AMUSING

I have never seen so much fuss about a "little" fish like the zebra danio!     Any more info and we can fill an encyclopedia.  LOL joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32245	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?

I have two adult male convicts in a 40-gallon tank (yes, I know, not big enough). There's a large, artificial tree stump in which one of them (Curly)would take refuge from the other (Larry), who appeared to be dominant. Occasionally Curly would come out and the two would do the challenge-lip-biting thing. I thought Larry might not be so aggressive if he had his own place to hide, so I set up a small shelter at the other end of the tank using an artificial decorative item and a piece of driftwood. He didn't take to it, but rather has retreated into the large tree stump with Curly. I have since added a small pleco to the tank, and now it seems that the pleco has taken over the driftwood shelter.(They should be used to having a pleco in the tank – there was a large one in it for a long time, but he died.) This has been going on for about three weeks now. Occasionally, Larry comes out, but soon retreats into the shelter with Curly. I can just barely see them, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to tell if one of them is sick.I drop sinking shrimp pellets into the shelter, and add several floating cichlid sticks. I figure they're eating during the night because I don't see them during the day. Is there some way to encourage them to come out, or should I just not worry about it? They are due for a water change – while I'm at it, should I rearrange the tank to see if that helps?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32246	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information

Dora, I was not arguing either point. I was pointing out that a non-native fish, invasive or not, does not need to come from outside the borders of the country. Zebras are definitely non-native. I do not have enough evidence that they are invasive, which really needs to be defined in this discussion, or not. The problem with the references given in this discussion is the most recent publication cited is a 1996 paper, which may have been a few years old when it was first published. Some of the stuff is over 40 years old. I simply do not have the interest or the time to really pursue this, but you can. Use www.scirus.com as your search engine for this type of research. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information OK, Steve, are you arguing that danios are a nonnative species, or an invasive nonnative species? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora, A non-native species is any species found outside of its natural range. Many trout are actually invasive non-native species, since Fish & Wildlife Departments trout to many streams and rivers where they would not normally be found to enhance the fishing experience of fishermen. Fish, and other critters, do not need to come from outside the country to become invasive non-native species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Don't know if it's your definition, Lenny. An invasive non-native species is a species that is not native to this country establishing thriving populations in the wild that are actively causing harm to the existing ecosystem. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information Dora (and if you are not Dora, you may want to ignore or delete this reply as a little FOS - Freedom Of Speech - takes place in this reply), Maybe we should all ask YOU what the definition of a non-native invasive species is in Dora-World since you either can't read or can't comprehend the volumes of information that have been placed before you? Several different posters have given you countless and various websites that show Zebra Danio's as one of hundreds of what are classified as non-native invasive species in the USA... but since you are too frigging hard-headed or thick-skulled or just plain ignorant to accept that.... tell us what your definition is so that we might be able to provide you proper evidence. If you have one Giant Python loose in your home? Is that non-native and invasive? Of does it take two... or three... or how many? What about the 2" to 3" flying cockroaches? One, two, three or how many loose in your home before you "care"? If you have one burglar breaking into your home, is that a "home invasion".. or does it take two or three or more burglars? God, you really are pathetic, IMO I really do not think that someone that can find their way onto the internet and then into a group such as this can really be as dense as you seem to be... so I must assume you are nothing more than an internet troll just out here trying to disrupt things and irritate people and I'll treat you as such after this reply. Here is the University Of Florida's page on "Invasive Non-Native Plants In Florida" - http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/guide/invplant.html And a snip from that page with their definition: NON-NATIVE Plants Of the more than 4,000 plant species in Florida, perhaps 1,000 species or more (25%) are non-native; they're also referred to as "exotic." We define non-native plants as "those that have become part of the Florida flora following the occupation by European man." In other words: plants that have made their way here since 1513 are considered non-native. (Source: Richard P. Wunderlin, (c) 2006 Institute for Systematic Botany) The term non-native usually refers to plants from other countries, regions or continents; kariba weed (Salvinia molesta ) probably comes from Brazil, and Brazilian pepper (Schinus terebinthifolius) comes from South America, etc. However, the term can also apply to plants from another region (i.e., within the same country). An example: smooth cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora), a native desirable plant on the U.S. Atlantic coast is invasive on the Pacific coast, covering oyster beds and other vital habitat. Not all non-native plants are problematic (but are still considered non-native invasive species). A wide variety of agricultural plants, such as tomatoes, citrus trees and other "economic crops" in Florida are obviously "good" and essential to human health and our economy. These plants are well managed by the farmers who plant them and sell their valuable products. Rarely do our non-native food crops spread as weeds. (As far as we know, there aren't any forests being threatened by tomato plants.) (END SNIP) Here is the Great-Lakes.net definition for non-native and invasive: http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#nonindigenous nonindigenous - not existing or having not originated naturally in a particular region or environment http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/glossary/#invasive invasive - tending to spread, infringe or encroach upon Using those two definitions, even a single non-native fish, plant, etc. is considered non-native and invasive, considering the word "or" is used in the invasive defintion. There doesn't have to 2 or 10 or 1,000.. just one that has infringed or encroached upon an area. Now I am officially NEVER going to waste my time trying to beat crap into your thick, dense, yet empty skull... or your intentionally being an internet troll .... but I'm still more than willing to help others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information First link says that zebra danios live in rice paddies and along the Ganges River, neither of which are found in North America. Then it says that zebra danios have occasionally been found around the Gulf of Mexico but have no breeding populations there. People are simply worried that they could thrive there. This is all very consistent with the six sightings of one zebro danio each in 15 years in various locations in the United States. No threat here. The second link doesn't work, so thanks for providing the content. It says less of exactly teh same thing. Do you guys READ teh web pages you use to draw your conclusions I'm supposed to be finding evidence to support, before you rant at me to know what you're talking about? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "henry puryear" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] zebra danio information From the website: HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North _Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North _Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North _Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS: <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Brachydanio+rerio&guide=North _Ame rican_Invasives&flags=HAS:> Scientific Name: Brachydanio rerio Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS): HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/ Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_ki ngdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml %26s earch_credRating%3DAll <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/ Sing leRpt/SingleRpt%3Fsearch_topic%3DTSN%26search_value%3D163668%26search_ki ngdo m%3Devery%26search_span%3Dexactly_for%26categories%3DAll%26source%3Dhtml %26s earch_credRating%3DAll> "163668 Other scientific names appearing in the literature of this species: Cyprinus rerio , Danio rerio , and Perilampus striatus (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Common Name: Zebra danio, zebrafish, striped danio, rerio, lauputi, anju Distinguishing Features: Zebra danios can be distinguished by their coloration. They are silver to yellow with four well defined blue stripes extending the length of their body onto the caudal fin (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Fin counts are as follows: Dorsal= 8-9(2/6-7), Anal= 15-16(2-3/12-13), and Pectoral= 12-13(1/11-12) (Sen, 1985; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). The body is elongate, its depth 3.4-4.2 times in SL. The eye diameter fits 3 to 3.5 times in head length. There are two pairs of well developed barbels; the rostral barbels are considerably longer than the eye diameter, the maxillary barbels extend beyond half the length of the pectoral fin. Gillrakers number 10 to 13 on the lower arm of the first gill arch. The lateral line is usually absent, incomplete or rudimentary. There are 28 to 30 scales in a longitudinal series, 15 to 16 predorsal scales, and 6-7 scales in the lateral transverse series (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). In addition to the typical form, a long finned variety exists, produced through selective breeding, which is quite popular among professional and recreational aquarists (Axelrod et al., 1971). Similar Species: Several other species of the genus Brachydanio such as B . frankei and B .albolineatus are commonly handled by the aquarium fish industry, however, these lack the distinctive well defined lateral stripes zebra danio possess. Giant danio, Danio aequipinnatus , are also common in the aquarium fish industry, however, they are much larger, more robust, and similarly lack the blue stripes of the zebra danio (Sakurai et al., 1992). None of the above mentioned species are established, or have been reported from open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem. Biology: This species can be found across a wide variety of habitats. It has been reported as common in slow moving to stagnant bodies of water, particularly rice-fields (Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Salinity Tolerance: Zebra danio occur in fresh waters over their native range. Reproduction and Fecundity: Females are larger and have a duller coloration than males (Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Typically spawning occurs in the early hours of the morning (Sterba, 1983). Eggs are relatively large, and released into open waters (Sterba, 1983). Under experimental conditions Eaton and Farley (1974) reported zebra danio spawning at intervals of 1.9 to 2.7 days. However, spawning intervals typically are much longer, varying from 5 days to several weeks (Hisaoka and Battle, 1962; Sterba, 1983). Eaton and Farley (1974) estimated between 21 and 60 eggs released per spawning event. In captivity, the total number of eggs spawned is usually between 400 and 500 (Axelrod et al., 1971; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Eggs are nonadhesive and hatch approximately 20-48 hours after spawning (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Riehl and Baensch, 1991). Larvae live from 48 to 72 hours on their yolk-sac provision (Sterba, 1983). Trophic interactions: This species is omnivorous. Aquarium specimens will consume most live or dry feeds given. Maximum Size: Relatively small cyprinids, zebra danio rarely grow beyond 50-60 mm in length (Axelrod et al., 1971; Sterba, 1983; Sen, 1985; Riehl and Baensch, 1991) Distribution: Zebra danio are native to tributaries of the Ganges River, along the Coromandel coast of India, from Calcutta to Masulipatam, Bengal, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh (Axelrod et al., 1971; Eaton and Farley, 1974; Jayram, 1981; Sterba, 1983). Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county, Florida. Additionally, a single museum record exists from Hillsborough county. Although specimens have been collected from open waters of Florida, no breeding populations have been documented (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). HYPERLINK "http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records. php% 3Fgss_id%3D21 <http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?go=http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_records. php% 3Fgss_id%3D21> "Collection Records Interest to Fisheries: Zebra danio are among the most popular aquarium fish in the United States, and as such a commercially valuable species. Their popularity as aquarium fish is due to their attractive coloration, peaceful disposition, hardiness, fecundity, and small size (Axelrod et al., 1971; Talwar and Jhingran, 1991). Because of their small size, they are of no value as food fish. Current Status of this Species in the Gulf of Mexico Ecosystem: Courtenay et al. (1974) reported collecting zebra danio from a canal west of Lantana, in Palm Peach county. However, no breeding populations in open waters of the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem have been reported (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay et al., 1984; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990; Courtenay et al., 1991; Shafland, 1996). The specimens collected were probably intentionally or accidentally released by recreational aquarists, or escaped from fish farms (Courtenay et al., 1974; Courtenay and Stauffer, 1990). Potential Impacts: Given their popularity among aquarists, high fecundity, trophic plasticity, and overall hardiness, there is an ongoing threat zebra danio will become established within the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem, through accidental or intentional releases. However, it is likely that this species would have much less of an impact than some other more aggressive and voracious exotics, currently handled by the aquarium fish industry. Recommendations: References: Axelrod, H.R., C.W. Emmens, D. Sculthorpe, W.V. Winkler, and N. Pronek. 1971. Exotic Tropical Fishes. TFH Publications, Inc. Jersey City, NJ. Courtenay, W. R., Jr. and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. 1990. The introduced fish problem and the aquarium fish industry. Journal of the World Aquaculture Society 21(3):145-159. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. A. Hensley, J. N. Taylor, and J. A. McCann. 1984. Distribution of exotic fishes in the continental United States. Pages 41-77 in W. R. Courtenay, Jr., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr., editors. Distribution, biology and management of exotic fishes. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., D. P. Jennings, and J. D. Williams. 1991. Appendix 2, exotic fishes. Pages 97-107 in Robins, C. R., R. M. Bailey, C. E. Bond, J. R. Brokker, E. A. Lachner, R. N. Lea, and W. B. Scott, editors. Common and scientific names of fishes from the U.S. and Canada. Special Publication 20, American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Md.. Courtenay, W. R., Jr., H. F. Sahlman, W. W. Miley, II, and D. J. Herrema. 1974. Exotic fishes in fresh and brackish waters of Florida. Biological Conservation 6(4):292-302. Eaton, R.C., R.D. Farley. 1974. Spawning cycle and egg production of zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio in the laboratory. Copeia 1974(1):195-204. Hisaoka, K.K., C.F. Firlet. 1962. Ovarian cycle and egg production in the zebrafish, Brachydanio rerio. Copeia 1962:788-792. Jayaram, K. C., 1981. The Freshwater Fishes Of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and Sri Lanka- A Handbook. Zoological Survey Of India, Calcutta. 475 Pp. + 13 Plates. Riehl, R., and H.A. Baensch. 1991. Aquarium Atlas. Mergus. Melle, Germany. 992 pp. Sakurai, A., Y. Sakamoto, and F. Mori. 1993. Aquarium Fish Of The World: The Comprehensive Guide To 650 Species. English Translation By Takeshi Shimizu With Neil M. Teitler. Edited By P. V. Loiselle. Chronicle Books. San Francisco. 288 Pp. Sen, T.K. 1985. The Fish Fauna Of Assam And Neighbouring North-eastern States Of India. Records Of The Zoological Survey Of India, Miscellaneous Publication, Occasional Paper No. 64. Calcutta. 217 Pp. Shafland, P. L. 1996. Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Sterba, G. 1983. The Aquarium Fish Encyclopedia. The MIT Press. Cambrige, Massachusetts. 605 pp. Talwar, P. K., and A. G. Jhingran, editors. 1992. Inland fishes of India and adjacent countries. A. A. Balkema, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Two volumes. Other on-line references: Date Created: 06/22/1998 Last Modified: 08/03/2005 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) If that's all you found, you found no evidence that danios are an invasive species. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Yes, My point was that I found it with a few clicks of the mouse. -Mike It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:54 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) It has a picture of a danio, and a single instance of finding one in California ni 1984. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <HYPERLINK "mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com"Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) About 5 clicks and I found this HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F200 8+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F200 8+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F200 8+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F200 8+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F200 8+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F200 8+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber= <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F200 8+12 %3A47%3A22+AM <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.asp?NoCache=10%2F27%2F200 8+12 %3A47%3A22+AM&SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> &SpeciesID=505&State=CA&County=&HUCNumber=> This was for California which the Northern part of is generally inhospitable to "Tropical" fish. Southern California has more of them probably as the waters are warmer down there. -Mike I don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Don't see anything about danios in this post. We all know there is such a thing as invasive nonnative fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Just an update. After looking around some more on this more extensive listing of Non-Indigenous / Non-Native fish, I also found this "Search" page where you can look at your state, drainage area region, etc. HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/ <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/> (You can click on your state which then brings up a page with three fields - Group (choose fish), State (choose your State), Sort (Common, Scientific, Taxonomic). Contact the webmaster for the site if you know of updates that are needed. Just for the record, Louisiana has 40 NI/NN fish listed and Florida has 182 (many more Marine fish though). Damn... LA near the bottom of another list... but at least the bottom is good for a change! LOL I guess I have to thank Dora for asking four times or I might never have done more digging on links from my original posted link. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Non-Native Fish (was: Missing fish) Actually, I didn't have to Google to find a much more extensive list of non-native fish. On the "About" page for the partial list I first posted, there were other links in the paragraph "Programs And Partners" and one of them, "Non-Indigenous Aquatic Species" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/, <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/,> led to this page on just "Fishes" HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/fish/default.asp> and then the "Species List of Non-indigenous Fish" link HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.asp?Group=Fishes> led to a much longer list and just looking at the "Jump to" list of page numbers on the bottom of that page, it's 15 pages of fish with 50 fish on each page. WOW... really nice pictures of the fish on each page too. Might be another good source of profile info on fish since I'm sure nearly every common tropical fish is on this list. Here's the page on the "Green Swordtail" (aka Red Swordtail or just Swordtail - Xiphophorus hellerii) HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=869> And Dora... here's the page on the Zebra Danio from this bigger list. If you couldn't find it on that short list, you'll never find it on this list. LOL HYPERLINK "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505 <http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=505> Looking through some of the other links on the top of these pages led to this link on just Florida and more particularly South Florida. HYPERLINK "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> "http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/ <http://sofia.usgs.gov/sfrsf/rooms/species/invasive/focus/> It shows it was last updated in June 2007 but the Snakefish was not listed on the page as well as a few other NI species that I've read are prolific in Florida, so maybe someone needs to contact the webmaster listed at the bottom of that page and give them a more current list of NI fish in Florida. Unfortunately, it's a government website funded by our tax-dollars-at-waste so I doubt it will ever be accurate. One of my political statements that I invented a long time ago, is "Name one thing that government does effectively and efficiently? The resounding answer is always NOTHING!... which is why I'm always amazed at why people want government running everything in their lives" (Disclaimer: This is a non-partisan statement). LOL Considering this list exists, it makes one wonder why there needed to be another government funded website for just the Gulf States that was woefully inadequate and bloated. All they had to do was make a list and link to the profiles on this more extensive list.. but I guess that would be too simple for a government program. \\Steve//, this list does have four Gambusia species listed on page 7. I know you mentioned that species as being one of the fish not on the Gulf States page. This better list does include both FW and Marine species but the majority of the fish seem to be FW fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com"goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:25 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Dora... the first sentence in my post was "Do a Google search". Why should I have to point you to sites when you can find them on your own? This is your fourth time asking about the Zebra Danio on that page and I clearly pointed it out in my first reply. Read it again! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Yes, Steve, I saw where he said that, and what good was posting a site that doesn't have the ifno. I'm working at a part time job two hours from home, trying to find a job, and working at a temporary full time job later this week, and still recovering from a hard drive failure, and I do not have time to research this. Assuming Lenny knows what he's talking about (think it was Lenny), it is not too much for him to point us to a couple of sites with the actual information. If not I'm going to not even worry abaout it. Got better things to worry about at the moment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish As has already been discussed, the list that was posted is woefully inadequate in representing invasive species that are present in the US. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:38 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Danios aren't listed either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <HYPERLINK "mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com"steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish That looks like an incomplete listing of invasive species. Not a single Gambusia species. is listed, which was introduced in many areas as mosquito control, nor is Channa spp. which is found in the Potomac River area, particularly the southern reaches. While there are mollies that are native to Florida, there are others in the wild that are not. I have also seen Oscars in the wild in Florida in several areas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:24 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Do a search for non-native and/or non-indigenous invasive species for your area to see if they are.... or which other fish may be found in your area. You'll see them listed on this page... HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php <http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_alphabetic_list.php> > Here's the starting page for that "official" site. HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/ <http://nis.gsmfc.org/> > This page explains what an "Invasive Species" HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> <HYPERLINK "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> "http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm <http://nis.gsmfc.org/What_is.shtm> > is and how some are much worse than others but we should still strive to NOT have any non-native species in our waterways. Like the old Parkay commercial, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Since Zebra Danio's are cool/cold water fish, they will easily live in the southern-most States in the USA. They've definitely been found in Florida, according to the information on the profile in the above link, likely released from breeding ponds from one of the hurricane related floods, but I'm not sure how often those profile pages are updated. I'm sure ZD's have been found in other local waters in southern States. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:46 AM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing fish Where have zebra danios become a nuisance invasive species? It's the first I've heard of this. If anythign could successfully stand up to mosquito fish you'd think it would be danios, but they aren't actually aggressvie fish, and they're so small. Also, how well do they do in places where there's frost in winter and places wehre teh creeks periodically dry up? That doesn't bother mosquito fish. Don't know if they burrow or what. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX HYPERLINK "mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com"tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <HYPERLINK "mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com"GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Missing fish They are actually genetically enhanced zebra danios and my major opposition to them is that zebra danios are one of the nuisance non-native invasive species, likely due to some releases by hobbyists and also due to floods affecting fish farms. If the glofish start getting released into the wild, it might make fishing a little harder for anglers since the glofish would compete with our day-glo painted lures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <HYPERLINK "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> "http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32247	From: joe t	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Nutrafin's "Cycle"

God bless ya, Ray, you are one wealth of knowledge.   I guess what it all boils down to is that this Nutrafin Cycle is one more chemical crap we don't need for our aquariums. I've been saying this since this group started ------- well, almost anyway ----------- I've been keeping fish for a long time and we never needed all this crap they have on the market today.  You know what?  With the exception of some good products, like to take out the chlorine, etc., we still do not need 90% (maybe more) of the stuff they have on the shelves. I do not understand the hurry.   Everything has to be done yesterday.  This is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby or thing to do.   What's the hurry, people?  Most of the time, let nature take its course and all will be fine. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32248	From: jett07002	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin

Hello, Doc Katie: If you have a filter on that tank, I really don't see why you would have to keep adding the cycle stuff to your tank since the filter is going to keep the bacteria needed to keep the tank cycled will be there. I don't see a need to keep adding a product to produce what is already there. Besides that I think it's a waste of your money for something that probably is not doing anything anyway. What you should be adding,... maybe, is a dechlor to remove chlorine and possibly chloramine from the water. And that depends of how much water you are changing. I guess it also depends on where you live, too. If you are using well or spring water, you porbably do not need the chlorine remover either. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32249	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Need Convict Cichlid Info!

Arowana's grow HUGE to around 5' long (yes, 5 FEET) and you would need a 1,000 gallon tank. It's a shame they even catch these fish for sale to hobbyists. Same for most other tank-busting or monster sized fish. The overwhelming majority of them die a miserable death because the unknowing hobbyist can't get rid of them or provide adequate homes for them. I'm glad you asked here first. We usually hear from many people after they are already stuck in a bad situation. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Osteoglossum_bicirrhosum.html Here are a couple of good profiles and care sheets on the Convict Cichlid. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_nigrofasciatum.html http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile58.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=132 They should only be kept with larger and/or other aggressive fish but then you would need a much larger tank to give them adequate territory and or water volume so those wouldn't fit into the 30G tank. They've been known to pick fights with much larger fish. A breeding pair is even more territorial and/or aggressive to any other fish in the tank. They are very easy to keep and breed so if you decide to keep a mated pair, check to see how much you could get for the babies... probably not much since they are such prolific breeders. Same for trading in the adult sized Convict. I'm sure the store gets regular requests for trade-in's of these fish from hobbyists who got them not realizing their nature. Is the footprint on the "30G Long" 48" x 12" or smaller? The 48" x 12" 30G "extra-long" would be OK for a single fancy goldfish for long term or a couple of juvi's for temporary homes. The 36" x 12" 30G, or 36" x 18" 30G Breeder would also be OK for a single fancy goldfish but just like two fancies in a 55G, it would still need frequent PWC's and large filter systems like an AquaClear HOB (oversized) or a canister filter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Convict Cichlid Info! Hey Guys, I just got another (my third!! Yipee!) tank from Craigs List and this one was totaly FREE! I pick it up tomorrow, its a long 30 gallon and it comes with a Convict Cichlid. I have never kept agressive fish before and was wondering if anyone could give me some tips for this breed. I'm doing research online now, but there is so much info, and I find actualy first hand experiance has the best advice - and I find that here. So that said, should I keep him alone, or can he be with other agressive fish? Could I get an Arowana with him? Whats the best food? I plan on keeping him at the same temp his previous owner was, he is over a year but Im not exactly sure. Im trying to decide if I will keep him, or bring him to a store to trade him in for something else. I would like to have more than just one fish in that tank. I was hoping to move some goldfish into that tank but I cant if I keep him. Is this breed an easy keeper? Are they a fun fish to watch? Help me decide guys. I need advice on this one! Thanks all! Blessings Dr. Katie Craft _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 8:39:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32250	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?

Convicts are cichlids and most cichlids need to bully other fish. Out side of spawning tanks in which the cichlids are occupied, cichlids just need weaker fish to kind of draw them out, add some fish that can take a beating like tiger barbs and I'm sure that the convicts will come out. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > I have two adult male convicts in a 40-gallon tank (yes, I know, not > big enough). There's a large, artificial tree stump in which one of > them (Curly)would take refuge from the other (Larry), who appeared to > be dominant. Occasionally Curly would come out and the two would do > the challenge-lip-biting thing. I thought Larry might not be so > aggressive if he had his own place to hide, so I set up a small > shelter at the other end of the tank using an artificial decorative > item and a piece of driftwood. He didn't take to it, but rather has > retreated into the large tree stump with Curly. I have since added a > small pleco to the tank, and now it seems that the pleco has taken > over the driftwood shelter.(They should be used to having a pleco in > the tank – there was a large one in it for a long time, but he died.) > This has been going on for about three weeks now. Occasionally, Larry > comes out, but soon retreats into the shelter with Curly. I can just > barely see them, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to tell if one > of them is sick.I drop sinking shrimp pellets into the shelter, and > add several floating cichlid sticks. I figure they're eating during > the night because I don't see them during the day. Is there some way > to encourage them to come out, or should I just not worry about it? > They are due for a water change – while I'm at it, should I rearrange > the tank to see if that helps? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32251	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Need Convict Cichlid Info!

Oh Rats! Lenny you took all the fun out of it. I was gong to get an Araipama for my 110 gallon tank. http://www.arowana.asia/arapaima%20big%20catch.jpg -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 6:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Convict Cichlid Info! Arowana's grow HUGE to around 5' long (yes, 5 FEET) and you would need a 1,000 gallon tank. It's a shame they even catch these fish for sale to hobbyists. Same for most other tank-busting or monster sized fish. The overwhelming majority of them die a miserable death because the unknowing hobbyist can't get rid of them or provide adequate homes for them. I'm glad you asked here first. We usually hear from many people after they are already stuck in a bad situation. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Osteoglossum_bicirrhosum.html Here are a couple of good profiles and care sheets on the Convict Cichlid. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_nigrofasciatum.html http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile58.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=132 They should only be kept with larger and/or other aggressive fish but then you would need a much larger tank to give them adequate territory and or water volume so those wouldn't fit into the 30G tank. They've been known to pick fights with much larger fish. A breeding pair is even more territorial and/or aggressive to any other fish in the tank. They are very easy to keep and breed so if you decide to keep a mated pair, check to see how much you could get for the babies... probably not much since they are such prolific breeders. Same for trading in the adult sized Convict. I'm sure the store gets regular requests for trade-in's of these fish from hobbyists who got them not realizing their nature. Is the footprint on the "30G Long" 48" x 12" or smaller? The 48" x 12" 30G "extra-long" would be OK for a single fancy goldfish for long term or a couple of juvi's for temporary homes. The 36" x 12" 30G, or 36" x 18" 30G Breeder would also be OK for a single fancy goldfish but just like two fancies in a 55G, it would still need frequent PWC's and large filter systems like an AquaClear HOB (oversized) or a canister filter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Convict Cichlid Info! Hey Guys, I just got another (my third!! Yipee!) tank from Craigs List and this one was totaly FREE! I pick it up tomorrow, its a long 30 gallon and it comes with a Convict Cichlid. I have never kept agressive fish before and was wondering if anyone could give me some tips for this breed. I'm doing research online now, but there is so much info, and I find actualy first hand experiance has the best advice - and I find that here. So that said, should I keep him alone, or can he be with other agressive fish? Could I get an Arowana with him? Whats the best food? I plan on keeping him at the same temp his previous owner was, he is over a year but Im not exactly sure. Im trying to decide if I will keep him, or bring him to a store to trade him in for something else. I would like to have more than just one fish in that tank. I was hoping to move some goldfish into that tank but I cant if I keep him. Is this breed an easy keeper? Are they a fun fish to watch? Help me decide guys. I need advice on this one! Thanks all! Blessings Dr. Katie Craft _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 8:39:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32252	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information THIS IS ACTUALLY GETTING AMUSING

That would be a pretty small encyclopedia. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe t" <jett07002@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: zebra danio information THIS IS ACTUALLY GETTING AMUSING I have never seen so much fuss about a "little" fish like the zebra danio! Any more info and we can fill an encyclopedia. LOL joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32253	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?

Or another way of putting it is they are territorial and will defend their territory wether it is a streambed, a log in a lake or their half of the aquarium. Dither fish are good for drawing out shy fish. The dither fish make other fish feel a bit more safe as the dithers tend to swim about and not be too concerned. Dithers also do give them something to play some of their aggression out on. Other than the hiding places you have provided can you describe the rest of the tank? Are the lights very bright above the tank or in the room? Is there something going on outside the tank that could be stressing them? A dog or cat or a high traffic area for foot traffic? Can you make the shelter area a bit more open so you can see them from the front? At least that way you can observe them and not be worried about their health. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: va22_vyshys <va22_vyshys@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 7:26 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time? Convicts are cichlids and most cichlids need to bully other fish. Out side of spawning tanks in which the cichlids are occupied, cichlids just need weaker fish to kind of draw them out, add some fish that can take a beating like tiger barbs and I'm sure that the convicts will come out. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > I have two adult male convicts in a 40-gallon tank (yes, I know, not > big enough). There's a large, artificial tree stump in which one of > them (Curly)would take refuge from the other (Larry), who appeared to > be dominant. Occasionally Curly would come out and the two would do > the challenge-lip-biting thing. I thought Larry might not be so > aggressive if he had his own place to hide, so I set up a small > shelter at the other end of the tank using an artificial decorative > item and a piece of driftwood. He didn't take to it, but rather has > retreated into the large tree stump with Curly. I have since added a > small pleco to the tank, and now it seems that the pleco has taken > over the driftwood shelter.(They should be used to having a pleco in > the tank – there was a large one in it for a long time, but he died.) > This has been going on for about three weeks now. Occasionally, Larry > comes out, but soon retreats into the shelter with Curly. I can just > barely see them, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to tell if one > of them is sick.I drop sinking shrimp pellets into the shelter, and > add several floating cichlid sticks. I figure they're eating during > the night because I don't see them during the day. Is there some way > to encourage them to come out, or should I just not worry about it? > They are due for a water change – while I'm at it, should I rearrange > the tank to see if that helps? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?

Maybe you need "Moe" fish. ;-) Sorry.. couldn't resist. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time? I have two adult male convicts in a 40-gallon tank (yes, I know, not big enough). There's a large, artificial tree stump in which one of them (Curly)would take refuge from the other (Larry), who appeared to be dominant. Occasionally Curly would come out and the two would do the challenge-lip-biting thing. I thought Larry might not be so aggressive if he had his own place to hide, so I set up a small shelter at the other end of the tank using an artificial decorative item and a piece of driftwood. He didn't take to it, but rather has retreated into the large tree stump with Curly. I have since added a small pleco to the tank, and now it seems that the pleco has taken over the driftwood shelter.(They should be used to having a pleco in the tank – there was a large one in it for a long time, but he died.) This has been going on for about three weeks now. Occasionally, Larry comes out, but soon retreats into the shelter with Curly. I can just barely see them, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to tell if one of them is sick.I drop sinking shrimp pellets into the shelter, and add several floating cichlid sticks. I figure they're eating during the night because I don't see them during the day. Is there some way to encourage them to come out, or should I just not worry about it? They are due for a water change – while I'm at it, should I rearrange the tank to see if that helps? ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 6:13:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 10/31/2008 10:40:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32255	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information THIS IS ACTUALLY GETTING AMUSING

Omg please make it stop! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: joe t <jett07002@...> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:35:12 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: zebra danio information THIS IS ACTUALLY GETTING AMUSING I have never seen so much fuss about a "little" fish like the zebra danio!���� Any more info and we can fill an encyclopedia.� LOL joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32256	From: Atif Mehmood	Date: 10/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin

Dear Sir,   Hi!   Please Iam facing a problem I have 3ft long and 1.5 Ft Whide and 2 Ft Height Aquarium , Iam useing medium graival but still my fishes were injured while I Try to feed them, I have Blue Line Shark Having 6 inches and Albino Cat  having 8 inches they were moving fast and rub on the surfice of my aquarium and injured. Please also tell me   What is the best groud for My Aquarim. shall I use graival or not?   Atif Mehmood. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32257	From: Lisa	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Decision made...

Okay. So here's the deal. Decision is made. I went down to the aquarium this afternoon. And I have decided on this set up. It's a 22 inch tank. Will have an undergravel filter, and a fitted glass lid. In it I am going to have an axolotil. Preferably albino if I can get one. Or black. I have had a Mexican walker in the past. So I know how to care for them. We had her for years. It will be at least two weeks before o get to buy the tank. But I will keep you all well informed of what happnes. Wish me luck Lisa (Australia)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32258	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: zebra danio information THIS IS NOT GETTING AMUSING

I'll say this only ONCE, knowing even this one is adding to the inane extraneous matter (my reason for not posting to this sooner) -- as long as replies are kept being made to this thread, no matter how short or direct, they will only serve to add to this thread keeping it alive with incessant comments to these replies. DO NOT reply to this post -- drop it HERE. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bubuci@... wrote: > > Omg please make it stop! > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: joe t <jett07002@...> > > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:35:12 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: zebra danio information THIS IS ACTUALLY GETTING AMUSING > > > I have never seen so much fuss about a "little" fish like the zebra danio!     Any more info and we can fill an encyclopedia.  LOL > > joe t > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32259	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

I'm not sure if you've seen it, but there's a specialty website all about http://www.axolotls.org and they have a what-appears-to-be extensive Care Sheet page http://www.axolotl.org/requirements.htm including DIY formulas for raising water hardness, in case your water chemistry isn't in the correct range for them. I've used some of the pages of their sister site http://www.caudata.org as a reference resource so I hope the Axolotl site is just as reliable with it's information. Those things sure do have the kind of faces only a mother could love. LOL How'd you get into keeping them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Decision made... Okay. So here's the deal. Decision is made. I went down to the aquarium this afternoon. And I have decided on this set up. It's a 22 inch tank. Will have an undergravel filter, and a fitted glass lid. In it I am going to have an axolotil. Preferably albino if I can get one. Or black. I have had a Mexican walker in the past. So I know how to care for them. We had her for years. It will be at least two weeks before o get to buy the tank. But I will keep you all well informed of what happnes. Wish me luck. Lisa (Australia) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 7:38:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32260	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Need Convict Cichlid Info!

Hi Katie, Congratulations on your being able to satisfy your "MTS" (multiple tank syndrome) needs for the time being (LOL). Can't beat that cost either. Many of us succumb to this same malady, as it kind of grows on you; few people never have enough tanks, so be careful <g>. I would re-think the part of keeping the Convict Cichlid (especially if this is a male), unless you prefer to keep him for his entertainment value (yes, they can be fun to watch), as most Cichlids can provide. This species does happen to be easily maintained. They do not, however, make good companions for many other fish species because of their known aggressiveness (territoriality), although in all fairness this behavior can vary with the individual, and the sex. At best, this fish may allow heterospecifics to inhabit the opposite side of the tank from that he has taken up residence in. Noticed you're thinking about adding SOME Goldfish to this tank. Unless you plan on getting a much larger tank in the future, or plan on bringing all but one Goldfish back to the store as they grow, you should be aware that adult "Fancy" Goldfish require a minimum of 30 gallons each -- they will get to between 8" and 10" long. Common or Comet Goldfish get even larger and require more space. I do like your taste in fish, with the choice of an Arowana, as they're one of the most gracefully swimming fish one could have. Unfortunately, a 30 gallon tank is FAR too small for this species (or any of its close relatives). Please be advised they WILL reach near 3 1/2 feet (personal experience) despite anything you may have read to the contrary, if you have researched them; I've read reports of 48", but can't verify that. By this, you can see they will grow MUCH large than the tank you're planning for one. As with any larger fish species, this one too will grow quite fast. As Lenny mentioned, the minumum size tank for this fish would be 5 feet and that's only because they have an auxilliary breathing apparatus (similar to Bettas) which enables them to breathe air -- they are also very "flexible" and have no trouble turning in an 18" wide tank. Ideally, even a much larger tank (than 5') should be supplied, and preferably one of 24" wide. Give your fish preferences some thought and get back to us on them for further recommendation/assistance on your likes. As this tank will be newly set up, you will first need to cycle it before stocking it, unless you are able to use the current filter (with its nitrifying bacteria) immediately, as soon as refilling the tank adding a de-chloramine product as you do. You'll need to ensure that the filter does not dry out enroute, by placing it in a bucket of aquarium water between the point of pick up and your house. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys, > I just got another (my third!! Yipee!) tank from Craigs List and this > one was totaly FREE! I pick it up tomorrow, its a long 30 gallon and it > comes with a Convict Cichlid. I have never kept agressive fish before > and was wondering if anyone could give me some tips for this breed. I'm > doing research online now, but there is so much info, and I find > actualy first hand experiance has the best advice - and I find that > here. So that said, should I keep him alone, or can he be with other > agressive fish? Could I get an Arowana with him? Whats the best food? I > plan on keeping him at the same temp his previous owner was, he is over > a year but Im not exactly sure. Im trying to decide if I will keep him, > or bring him to a store to trade him in for something else. I would > like to have more than just one fish in that tank. I was hoping to move > some goldfish into that tank but I cant if I keep him. Is this breed an > easy keeper? Are they a fun fish to watch? Help me decide guys. I need > advice on this one! Thanks all! > Blessings > Dr. Katie Craft >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin

Using your measurements 36" x 18" x 24", your tank's water volume would be 67.3 gallons US commonly sold as a 70G Tall tank, although the height would be 25" instead of 24". Soft bellied and/or scaleless fish should have a smooth edged substrate and decorations to help prevent injuries. Fish that get startled easily... most catfish do... should also have a safe tank with enough room so they might be able to more easily avoid sharp edge rocks, etc. In the wild, they likely have areas where the substrate is soft and smooth and other areas that are rough and rocky but they have the ability to choose which areas they prefer. In our aquariums, they do not have this ability to choose since we generally have tanks that are much smaller than the water volume and area that they would have in the wild. That said, I would also like to point out that your tank is much too small for your fish. I didn't recognize the name "Blue Line Shark" so a quick Google found this page http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-57100.html which says it's a local name given to Iridescent Sharks (Pangasius hypopthalmus) and these fish get HUGE... over 3' long. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pangasius_hypopthalmus.html I would need more info on the "Albino Cat" since the albino non-pigmentation color is applicable to all species of fish, but since it's 8" long already, it's already much too large for your tank as well. Since there isn't enough room in your tank for them to swim around adequately, they are more likely to spend their time resting on the bottom... in contact with the gravel which is causing the problems. What are your water quality tests showing? With that much of a bioload, I would think you would need to be doing daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes) to keep the water quality in good shape and vacuuming the gravel with each PWC to remove fish waste... otherwise bad bacteria would be more likely to start growing in the gravel which would just make any minor injuries caused by the gravel much worse. An analogy would be getting cut by a clean knife versus a dirty, rusty, bacteria covered knife... the latter would cause a much higher chance of infection or worse. You should look at either getting a much larger tank... 500G for long term success for the Iridescent Shark (aka Blue Line Shark) or rehoming the fish and sticking with fish more suitable for your tank size and you need to take some photos of your albino catfish and post them here to see if we can help you ID the fish so you can find out more about it's needs Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Atif Mehmood Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Cc: mom2angeldog@... Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin Dear Sir, Hi! Please Iam facing a problem I have 3ft long and 1.5 Ft Whide and 2 Ft Height Aquarium , Iam useing medium graival but still my fishes were injured while I Try to feed them, I have Blue Line Shark Having 6 inches and Albino Cat having 8 inches they were moving fast and rub on the surfice of my aquarium and injured. Please also tell me What is the best groud for My Aquarim. shall I use graival or not? Atif Mehmood. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 8:20:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32262	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: RE : Bio-Spira vs. Nutrafin

Hi Again Katie, Your comment on not seeing the product called "Cycle" by Haagen (Hagen) seems confusing, when your next statement says you were using this, so I'm unsure of what you mean. If you mean that you not not see this product mentioned in my original post on this topic, please refer to my follow-up post to Lenny's reply to Chris in which I thoroughly discussed Nutrafin Cycle. This product is one and the same -- Hagan Nutrafin Cycle; Hagan uses the name "Nutrafin" on all of their aquarium products as part of the labeling trademark. Be advised that most of these cycling (bacteria) products are just about useless, as they cannot retain the fecundity of aerobic bacteria (as are nitrifying bacteria) for any extended period of time when sealed up in a bottle put on the shelf. The product, "Dr Tim's One and Only" appears to be the only such product on the market, specially formulated, being able to have some shelf life. Even the previously introduced product "BioSpira" needed to be refrigerated because of this limitation. Most (all?) other "similar" products advertised as containing cycling bacteria contain mostly Hetrospecific bacteria which do not oxidize ammonia or nitrite, but instead need to feed on dead organic matter. Partially, the result of this action is eventually ammonia from which nitrifying bacteria can develop, but these bacteria are not included in these other products. They develop on their own, as they would have done so anyway, only that this product even delays this process even further; you'd be almost equally as well off just by adding fish food to start your cycle. Certainly, in the absence of using a real nitrifying bacteria product, plain ammonia would be the better option by far in feeding your beneficial bacteria right off the bat. One of the two actual nitrifying bacteria cultures marketed would be the best way to go, for short-term cycling results, whereby you can start adding fish the following day. These products, once initially added, do not require additions of them at any future time, as they become established in your filter system (and colonize your glass and substrate as well, albeit not in as large of populations). Your partial water changes should not require additions of nitrifying bacteria as you are suggesting, as while the water column can be expected to contain some bacteria at any given time, they do do colonize there but instead in your filter. There is no need to keep adding "bacteria," once its established. I would like to add that any dry products promoted as a nitrifying bacteria / cycling product is bogus; if it contains any bacteria at all (and we know certain bacteria can be found on any dry surfaces), it will be Heterospecific bacteria not intended for directly breaking down ammonia. Autotrophic bacteria (as are nitrifying bacteria) need an aeqeous, well,oxygenated environment to survive. In conclusion, you just need to be patient when doing a fishless cycle, if you don't intend on using a live nitrifying bacteria culture. Autotrophic bacteria can double their population within 24 hours (they will build up somewhat rapidly), but if this sounds fast, it should be realized that Heterotrophic bacteria will double their population within 2 hours. By this, it can be seen why a cycle takes as long as it does to get sufficiently established. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > I have been reading this thread with much interest since I use a > cycle product and was told when got my first tank how much easier and > healthier it makes things if you plan to add fish right away, which I > did. I didnt see the product called "Cycle" by Haagen (I think thats > the name of the company). I was using this but have since switched to a > generic version, the Petco brand no-name called just "Bacteria" becuase > the labels for both products where the same,and I asked around and > indeed it seems to be true! I save soooo much money now since a large > bottle of the Petco stuff is like 5 bucks, compared to the high prices > of just a tiny little thing of Cycle. Does anyone else have feedback on > either of these/used or use them now? I was told to add a small amount > with my weekly 10-20% water changes and cleaning (I keep a clean tank - > with goldfish its a constant battle,but mine really are not half > as "dirty" as I got "warned" they would be!). Is this good? I add it > once Im done, if I dont change any water I still add a little once a > week. Both my tanks are under 6 months old. Any input would be great! > Thanks everyone! > HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!! > Dr. Katie Craft >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32263	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?

Was about to suggest that they're missing Moe before Lenny beat me to it, but then on further thought, they may be looking for the companionship of Moesha (female gender) - LOL. Really looks like there is something about their environment which is making them feel insecure. You'll have to determine what that might be, possibly by process of elimination of the causative factors. At this same time, the addition of stress-reducing elements will promote a greater sense of security. Could not help but notice that this behavior has been going on for about 3 weeks. Also noticed your saying that they are due for a water change. By this, I might take it that you haven't given them a partial water change for at least 3 weeks (or more?). Build-ups of nitrates will have such a behavioral effect on fish, and noteably on Cichlids, acting through the pores of their lateral line; it can make them quite nervous as it builds up to higher levels. Often, too strong of lighting will affect fish in a manner you describe, as Mike brings out. Try cutting down on the light intensity of their overhead light, or keep it off completely for a while and see how they react. If the lighting strength cannot be cut down, add some floating plants (floating water sprite, duckweed, etc.) to the surface to offer them more security. Rearranging the tank WILL NOT help, although you could add more rocks or driftwood if the tank is otherwise sparse. While driftwood can leach tannins, it can help be cured by boiling it and adding baking soda to the pot, after which it should be well rinsed. Mike also mentioned dither fish. This would be especially helpful, at least along with floating plants, as actively moving fish such as Rainbow Fish or Giant Danios will relieve the insecurity stress these fish are now experiencing and will help draw them out into their environment as they see there is no cause for them to feel insecure (after all, the other guys are frolicking around without a care-- LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > I have two adult male convicts in a 40-gallon tank (yes, I know, not > big enough). There's a large, artificial tree stump in which one of > them (Curly)would take refuge from the other (Larry), who appeared to > be dominant. Occasionally Curly would come out and the two would do > the challenge-lip-biting thing. I thought Larry might not be so > aggressive if he had his own place to hide, so I set up a small > shelter at the other end of the tank using an artificial decorative > item and a piece of driftwood. He didn't take to it, but rather has > retreated into the large tree stump with Curly. I have since added a > small pleco to the tank, and now it seems that the pleco has taken > over the driftwood shelter.(They should be used to having a pleco in > the tank – there was a large one in it for a long time, but he died.) > This has been going on for about three weeks now. Occasionally, Larry > comes out, but soon retreats into the shelter with Curly. I can just > barely see them, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to tell if one > of them is sick.I drop sinking shrimp pellets into the shelter, and > add several floating cichlid sticks. I figure they're eating during > the night because I don't see them during the day. Is there some way > to encourage them to come out, or should I just not worry about it? > They are due for a water change – while I'm at it, should I rearrange > the tank to see if that helps? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32264	From: Jennifer Walker	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Weather/Dojo Loach?

I keep my dojo at a temp a little below 70. I have a 55 gallon tank that my dojos are in and a 10 that my kuhlis are in. The kuhlis are just waiting till I get a bigger tank for them but they seem to be doing really well in there. My weather loaches don't really hid all that much. There are lots of place for them to hid out but the like to lay on top of the tunnels instead.   jennifer --- On Thu, 10/30/08, bubuci@... <bubuci@...> wrote: From: bubuci@... <bubuci@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:05 AM Eric! :) Do you mean you keep your Kuhlis and Weather loaches together? How many do you have of each? What is the approx temp you keep them at? My Husbands idea of room temp requires a blanket or sweater for me :P so that's why I ask :). Do you have a sand substrate for them? How big are yours and how big are their tanks? Sorry for bombarding you with questions 8) Lol! Thanks in advance for your reply! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. org> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:38:15 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? I have both and keep the water at a little higher than room temperature (from the lighting). I had thought they had died or were eaten (or both) until I removed my UGF and there there were happily hiding underneath. Now they only come out whenthe weather is bad . Apparently they are a bit sensitive to pressure changes which is what earned them the nickname "Weather Loach". They are totally peacefiul.mostly hiding if they can. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... ry.net Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Jennifer! Thanks for your reply! :D what temp do you keep your Dojos in? What size tank? How big are they? I actually do have 2 Kuhlis, one is a Java though, but they hang out together but don't do much else, they hide a lot. I really like the aspect of the weather loach reacting to weather changes. Fun! Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Walker <Risika23@yahoo. <mailto:Risika23% 40yahoo.com> com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:47:31 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? I have both gold and regular dojos in one tank. The plain dojos seem to be more active and slightly bigger. I would not keep just one though. They really love to be in groups. Mine play and swim around with eachother. If your tank is a little warmer you might try Black Kuhli Loaches. They are much smaller, around 2in, so you could possibly keep a group. I do not have snails so I dont know about that one but I would bet that Kuhlis would be too small to eat your snails. Both kuhlis and Dojo are very peace full. I keep them with Danios in one tank and Corys in another and have never had a problem. Jennifer --- On Sat, 10/25/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 10:17 AM I've never kept them, but like all fish, the best bet is to try and provide them with their preferred environment. .. including tank size, shoaling mates, etc., but I'm sure people have been successful with them outside of their preferred parameters. They are cool water fish, not tropical fish, and your snails/shrimp may become snacks. http://www.loaches. com/species- index/weather- loach-misgurnis- anguillicaudatu s http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_dojo.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci% 40tmo.blackber> ry.net Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Weather/Dojo Loach? Hey Gang, Does anyone have experience with Weather or Dojo Loaches? I'm considering getting one, I know you are supposed to have a group, but my tank can't handle it. I can do 1, but 3 will be overcrowded I think. How many gallons per Dojo and will they do ok with regular gravel? What do they like to eat? What color do most of you prefer, Gold or Original? Will they bother my Mystery Snails or Ghost Shrimp? Will they get on with a Blue Ram? Thanks in advance. Cheers, Tania Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081025-0, 10/25/2008 Tested on: 10/25/2008 10:17:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32265	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!

I am going to go insane if I get another daily digest with "RE: Zebra Danios" one more time....come on, enough is enough. Why are we still even considering allowing these posts to go through? Dont they have to be "approved" first...this thread is pointless and going nowhere. I am part of this group to share and learn, not to listen to one person (ahem, DORA!) argue all day everyday!!! Its getting really old! Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32266	From: bubuci@tmo.blackberry.net	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!

Agreed! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:31:20 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! I am going to go insane if I get another daily digest with "RE: Zebra Danios" one more time....come on, enough is enough. Why are we still even considering allowing these posts to go through? Dont they have to be "approved" first...this thread is pointless and going nowhere. I am part of this group to share and learn, not to listen to one person (ahem, DORA!) argue all day everyday!!! Its getting really old! Dr. Katie Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32267	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!

zebra danio.. lol.. mu-ah-ha-ha-ha -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! Agreed! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@... <mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com> > Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:31:20 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! I am going to go insane if I get another daily digest with "RE: Zebra Danios" one more time....come on, enough is enough. Why are we still even considering allowing these posts to go through? Dont they have to be "approved" first...this thread is pointless and going nowhere. I am part of this group to share and learn, not to listen to one person (ahem, DORA!) argue all day everyday!!! Its getting really old! Dr. Katie Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 3:45:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 3:47:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32268	From: Swatek-Rice, Traci	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!

You're rotten... :) Traci Rice Texas Instruments DMOS 5 Manufacturing Hazmat Technician ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [GoldLenny@...] Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! zebra danio.. lol.. mu-ah-ha-ha-ha -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bubuci@...<mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! Agreed! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...<mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com> <mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com> > Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:31:20 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! I am going to go insane if I get another daily digest with "RE: Zebra Danios" one more time....come on, enough is enough. Why are we still even considering allowing these posts to go through? Dont they have to be "approved" first...this thread is pointless and going nowhere. I am part of this group to share and learn, not to listen to one person (ahem, DORA!) argue all day everyday!!! Its getting really old! Dr. Katie Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 3:45:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 3:47:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32269	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?

Well, of course we had a Moe! -- he died, so now Larry has only Curly to pick on. I thought that cichlids would kill any smaller fish. Perhaps getting a couple of barbs would be the way to go. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Maybe you need "Moe" fish. ;-) Sorry.. couldn't resist. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Shirley Reichard > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time? > > I have two adult male convicts in a 40-gallon tank (yes, I know, not big > enough). There's a large, artificial tree stump in which one of them > (Curly)would take refuge from the other (Larry), who appeared to be > dominant. Occasionally Curly would come out and the two would do the > challenge-lip-biting thing. I thought Larry might not be so aggressive if he > had his own place to hide, so I set up a small shelter at the other end of > the tank using an artificial decorative item and a piece of driftwood. He > didn't take to it, but rather has retreated into the large tree stump with > Curly. I have since added a small pleco to the tank, and now it seems that > the pleco has taken over the driftwood shelter.(They should be used to > having a pleco in the tank – there was a large one in it for a long time, > but he died.) This has been going on for about three weeks now. > Occasionally, Larry comes out, but soon retreats into the shelter with > Curly. I can just barely see them, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to > tell if one of them is sick.I drop sinking shrimp pellets into the shelter, > and add several floating cichlid sticks. I figure they're eating during the > night because I don't see them during the day. Is there some way to > encourage them to come out, or should I just not worry about it? > They are due for a water change – while I'm at it, should I rearrange the > tank to see if that helps? > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 > Tested on: 10/31/2008 6:13:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 > Tested on: 10/31/2008 10:40:46 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32270	From: henry puryear	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: A voice of protest

Hello everyone. I am protest that we have been showing too much favoritism to the zebra danio, what about other danios. The “other” danios include rainbows, and others. I think that if we do not start talking about other fish including other types of danios, this group might get with slapped a discrimination lawsuit. It’s obvious that we have spent way too much time discussing this elitist fish while other fish who also qualify are being ignored. What about goldfish? They live in several areas where they have escaped from jaws of death in little bowls and are living the good life in lakes, rivers and ponds. What about that special fish with the pretty smile, the piranha? They and their buddy Oscar and enjoying life big time in the canals and rivers and swamps of Florida. Please, give all fish an equal and level playing field or I will be reporting you to Council Representing All Piscine otherwise known as CRAP. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! zebra danio.. lol.. mu-ah-ha-ha-ha -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of HYPERLINK "mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net"bubuci@... Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 2:45 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! Agreed! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dr. Katie Craft" <HYPERLINK "mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com"mom2angeldog@... <mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com> > Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:31:20 To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! I am going to go insane if I get another daily digest with "RE: Zebra Danios" one more time....come on, enough is enough. Why are we still even considering allowing these posts to go through? Dont they have to be "approved" first...this thread is pointless and going nowhere. I am part of this group to share and learn, not to listen to one person (ahem, DORA!) argue all day everyday!!! Its getting really old! Dr. Katie Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 3:45:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com"http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 3:47:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: A voice of protest

Henry, I think we're all just closeted ZDmaniacs. After one of the mods put a clamp down on the "old" thread about ZD's, two or three new threads have been started by folks complaining about the old ZD thread. Tall C.R.A.P. to bring it on.... my lawyer can beat up their lawyer. LOL Did you notice... I never mentioned zebra danio even once? Dang... I just did. Oh well... ZD, ZD, ZD, ZD, ZD.. LOL And now, in my best Rodney King impersonation... "Can't we all just get along".. OUCH.. OOOH.. OUCH... OOOH.. (as \\Steve//, Mike, Ray and others beat me with their Billy Clubs)... "Don't taze me bro!" as Harry zaps me the tazer. OK.. I give up! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of henry puryear Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A voice of protest Hello everyone. I am protest that we have been showing too much favoritism to the zebra danio, what about other danios. The “other” danios include rainbows, and others. I think that if we do not start talking about other fish including other types of danios, this group might get with slapped a discrimination lawsuit. It’s obvious that we have spent way too much time discussing this elitist fish while other fish who also qualify are being ignored. What about goldfish? They live in several areas where they have escaped from jaws of death in little bowls and are living the good life in lakes, rivers and ponds. What about that special fish with the pretty smile, the piranha? They and their buddy Oscar and enjoying life big time in the canals and rivers and swamps of Florida. Please, give all fish an equal and level playing field or I will be reporting you to Council Representing All Piscine otherwise known as CRAP. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! zebra danio.. lol.. mu-ah-ha-ha-ha -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of HYPERLINK "mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net"bubuci@... <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 2:45 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! Agreed! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dr. Katie Craft" <HYPERLINK "mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com"mom2angeldog@... <mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com> <mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com> > Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:31:20 To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! I am going to go insane if I get another daily digest with "RE: Zebra Danios" one more time....come on, enough is enough. Why are we still even considering allowing these posts to go through? Dont they have to be "approved" first...this thread is pointless and going nowhere. I am part of this group to share and learn, not to listen to one person (ahem, DORA!) argue all day everyday!!! Its getting really old! Dr. Katie Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 3:45:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 3:47:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 6:56 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 4:56:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 5:22:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32272	From: bill1433	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?

Hi, � My name is Bill and something I did years ago may help.� Get yourself over to Lowe's or Home Depot and pickup a T joint �4" PVC pipe.� Bring it home wash well and use a bit of Clorox to kill unwanted germs.� Just to be sure after you rise well some good old fashioned boiling water.� Your fish will love hiding in there and you can still see them.� After they feel comfortable they'll be out and about as usual. � Worked for me, � Bill� --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 10:34 AM Was about to suggest that they're missing Moe before Lenny beat me to it, but then on further thought, they may be looking for the companionship of Moesha (female gender) - LOL. Really looks like there is something about their environment which is making them feel insecure. You'll have to determine what that might be, possibly by process of elimination of the causative factors. At this same time, the addition of stress-reducing elements will promote a greater sense of security. Could not help but notice that this behavior has been going on for about 3 weeks. Also noticed your saying that they are due for a water change. By this, I might take it that you haven't given them a partial water change for at least 3 weeks (or more?). Build-ups of nitrates will have such a behavioral effect on fish, and noteably on Cichlids, acting through the pores of their lateral line; it can make them quite nervous as it builds up to higher levels. Often, too strong of lighting will affect fish in a manner you describe, as Mike brings out. Try cutting down on the light intensity of their overhead light, or keep it off completely for a while and see how they react. If the lighting strength cannot be cut down, add some floating plants (floating water sprite, duckweed, etc.) to the surface to offer them more security. Rearranging the tank WILL NOT help, although you could add more rocks or driftwood if the tank is otherwise sparse. While driftwood can leach tannins, it can help be cured by boiling it and adding baking soda to the pot, after which it should be well rinsed. Mike also mentioned dither fish. This would be especially helpful, at least along with floating plants, as actively moving fish such as Rainbow Fish or Giant Danios will relieve the insecurity stress these fish are now experiencing and will help draw them out into their environment as they see there is no cause for them to feel insecure (after all, the other guys are frolicking around without a care-- LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@.. .> wrote: > > I have two adult male convicts in a 40-gallon tank (yes, I know, not > big enough). There's a large, artificial tree stump in which one of > them (Curly)would take refuge from the other (Larry), who appeared to > be dominant. Occasionally Curly would come out and the two would do > the challenge-lip- biting thing. I thought Larry might not be so > aggressive if he had his own place to hide, so I set up a small > shelter at the other end of the tank using an artificial decorative > item and a piece of driftwood. He didn't take to it, but rather has > retreated into the large tree stump with Curly. I have since added a > small pleco to the tank, and now it seems that the pleco has taken > over the driftwood shelter.(They should be used to having a pleco in > the tank � there was a large one in it for a long time, but he died.) > This has been going on for about three weeks now. Occasionally, Larry > comes out, but soon retreats into the shelter with Curly. I can just > barely see them, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to tell if one > of them is sick.I drop sinking shrimp pellets into the shelter, and > add several floating cichlid sticks. I figure they're eating during > the night because I don't see them during the day. Is there some way > to encourage them to come out, or should I just not worry about it? > They are due for a water change � while I'm at it, should I rearrange > the tank to see if that helps? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32273	From: pam andress	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: A voice of protest

I love it. FINALLY someone says something I will answer. THANKS, Pam Hello everyone. I am protest that we have been showing too much favoritismto the zebra danio, what about other danios. The �other� danios includerainbows, and others. I think that if we do not start talking about otherfish including other types of danios, this group might get with slapped adiscrimination lawsuit. It�s obvious that we have spent way too much timediscussing this elitist fish while other fish who also qualify are beingignored. What about goldfish? They live in several areas where they haveescaped from jaws of death in little bowls and are living the good life inlakes, rivers and ponds. What about that special fish with the pretty smile,the piranha? They and their buddy Oscar and enjoying life big time in thecanals and rivers and swamps of Florida. Please, give all fish an equal and level playing field or I will bereporting you to Council Representing All Piscine otherwise known as CRAP. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32274	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: 125G Tang Tank Project

I drove 6 hours today to pick up the fish for this project (with a local fish club/forum group) from 2 hatcheries in NY State. It was a perfect day! These went into quarantine tanks. 20 Cyprichromis Leptosoma Kerenge 6 Lamprologus Brevis Tiger 6 Neolamprologus Leleupi Orange 6 Julidochromis Marlieri Gombe 1 Neolamprologus Tretocephalus They're very cute, maybe an inch long and 1/8 inch high. Well the Brevis are closer to adult size, but the others are tiny. They will eventually join the Tangs I already have in the 125G: 6 Altolamprologus Calvus Black Inkfin 6 Lamprologus Caudopunctatus _____________________________________________ From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@...] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:46 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: 125G Tang Tank Project For a change of pace and switch to a more positive topic, just wanted to share. I'm working on a project to switch over my 125G 72" tank from Malawi mbuna to a planted Lake Tanganyika community. I'm in the process of ordering things (75G tank/stand, filters, shells) now, as well as catching mbuna from the current tank that will be passed along to other hobbyists to downsize the herd. In order to catch the fish, I have to remove 200 pounds of rocks. Both tanks (new Malawi 75G and converted Tang 125G) will have rocks used in the aquascape, but mostly the original 200 pounds should be sufficient for both tanks.the Malawi need the tank filled, but the 75G is smaller. The Tangs need more open space, so should be able to use the leftovers. I have used Pangea backgrounds in both of my tanks so far, and will do it again with this third tank. Anyone else ever use one? Or a Back To Nature? The backgrounds are installed inside the tank but with a space behind to conceal heaters and filter intakes. They are very realistic and were originally designed for zoo displays. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?

Standard PVC pipe comes only in white. There is flexible PVC that comes in either gray or black and although it's flexible, it's actually plenty rigid enough that a short section wouldn't have much flex to it at all. Black usually wouldn't stand out as much or show algae growth as much compared to white. There is also a rigid black pipe that is ABS and is used for drainage whereas PVC is used for potable (drinking) water. The EPA says ABS isn't suitable for potable (drinking) water but I've read many threads in DIY forums where fish keepers have used ABS in their tanks with no problems. I'd use the black flexible PVC or white rigid PVC as a first choice though. I'm not sure if they make a T fitting in the black flexible PVC but they may. I haven't paid that much attention to it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time? Hi, My name is Bill and something I did years ago may help. Get yourself over to Lowe's or Home Depot and pickup a T joint 4" PVC pipe. Bring it home wash well and use a bit of Clorox to kill unwanted germs. Just to be sure after you rise well some good old fashioned boiling water. Your fish will love hiding in there and you can still see them. After they feel comfortable they'll be out and about as usual. Worked for me, Bill --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 10:34 AM Was about to suggest that they're missing Moe before Lenny beat me to it, but then on further thought, they may be looking for the companionship of Moesha (female gender) - LOL. Really looks like there is something about their environment which is making them feel insecure. You'll have to determine what that might be, possibly by process of elimination of the causative factors. At this same time, the addition of stress-reducing elements will promote a greater sense of security. Could not help but notice that this behavior has been going on for about 3 weeks. Also noticed your saying that they are due for a water change. By this, I might take it that you haven't given them a partial water change for at least 3 weeks (or more?). Build-ups of nitrates will have such a behavioral effect on fish, and noteably on Cichlids, acting through the pores of their lateral line; it can make them quite nervous as it builds up to higher levels. Often, too strong of lighting will affect fish in a manner you describe, as Mike brings out. Try cutting down on the light intensity of their overhead light, or keep it off completely for a while and see how they react. If the lighting strength cannot be cut down, add some floating plants (floating water sprite, duckweed, etc.) to the surface to offer them more security. Rearranging the tank WILL NOT help, although you could add more rocks or driftwood if the tank is otherwise sparse. While driftwood can leach tannins, it can help be cured by boiling it and adding baking soda to the pot, after which it should be well rinsed. Mike also mentioned dither fish. This would be especially helpful, at least along with floating plants, as actively moving fish such as Rainbow Fish or Giant Danios will relieve the insecurity stress these fish are now experiencing and will help draw them out into their environment as they see there is no cause for them to feel insecure (after all, the other guys are frolicking around without a care-- LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@.. .> wrote: > > I have two adult male convicts in a 40-gallon tank (yes, I know, not > big enough). There's a large, artificial tree stump in which one of > them (Curly)would take refuge from the other (Larry), who appeared to > be dominant. Occasionally Curly would come out and the two would do > the challenge-lip- biting thing. I thought Larry might not be so > aggressive if he had his own place to hide, so I set up a small > shelter at the other end of the tank using an artificial decorative > item and a piece of driftwood. He didn't take to it, but rather has > retreated into the large tree stump with Curly. I have since added a > small pleco to the tank, and now it seems that the pleco has taken > over the driftwood shelter.(They should be used to having a pleco in > the tank - there was a large one in it for a long time, but he died.) > This has been going on for about three weeks now. Occasionally, Larry > comes out, but soon retreats into the shelter with Curly. I can just > barely see them, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to tell if one > of them is sick.I drop sinking shrimp pellets into the shelter, and > add several floating cichlid sticks. I figure they're eating during > the night because I don't see them during the day. Is there some way > to encourage them to come out, or should I just not worry about it? > They are due for a water change - while I'm at it, should I rearrange > the tank to see if that helps? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 6:34:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32276	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: new salt water tank! advice please

ok so i bought the bio cube, larger size i like being able to time my day/night cycle and the tank looks good all set up and i have a good little live rock set up. now for the advice. i have heard conflicting views on starting a saltwater tank, one or two people say in a few days start with some cleaners and slowly add fish, other say don't touch the tank for 8 weeks and wait for the ammonia spike and the tank will naturally cycle itself. the live rock has already been cured, i bought the water already mixed and seeded and then of course some live sand. some have said that the wait time after setting up the aquarium is to cure the live rock, some say it still needs to cycle for 8 weeks so i want to know what you guys think. how long do i need to wait? how slowly do i introduce new life, how often do i test? any advice i can get will be greatly appreciated, you guys have given me a lot of great advice so i trust a lot of what i read here

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32277	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work

My light fell into the aquarium and shorted out, I guess - it won't work. The flourescent bulb does work in a different light fixture. The fixture is not still full of water. Other things plugged into the same power strip are working. It does look like there may be a ballast or something under the light fixture itself. What do I need to do - replace that ballast? It's a 15 watt Petsmart fixture for the 20 gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32278	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!

I really hate to put an end to the entertainment, but having finally gotten it that there is no information to be gained, I'm quite done discussing the dangers posed by zebra danios to the environment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! I am going to go insane if I get another daily digest with "RE: Zebra Danios" one more time....come on, enough is enough. Why are we still even considering allowing these posts to go through? Dont they have to be "approved" first...this thread is pointless and going nowhere. I am part of this group to share and learn, not to listen to one person (ahem, DORA!) argue all day everyday!!! Its getting really old! Dr. Katie Craft ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32279	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work

Generally, it is less expensive, in actual dollars, plus your time, to replace the fixture than to try to fix it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work My light fell into the aquarium and shorted out, I guess - it won't work. The flourescent bulb does work in a different light fixture. The fixture is not still full of water. Other things plugged into the same power strip are working. It does look like there may be a ballast or something under the light fixture itself. What do I need to do - replace that ballast? It's a 15 watt Petsmart fixture for the 20 gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32280	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Convict Cichlid is home!

I just welcomed my new fish home today, it was a freebie but turned out more like a rescue!! I got the long 55 gallon (I think) with everything and the fish for free. But lets just say fish care and tank cleaning were not a part of the picture! Very dirty and spent the whole afternoon cleaning things up (rinsing plants, changing water, wiping off the hood, tank, and outside of filter). A lot of work! I dont know why but I think he looks like a "Sherlock" so that his name now. He is doing great and is a fighter to have lived in those conditions for over a year! Now he will have someone who care about him. Should he be alone in the tank? Can anything live with a cichlid in peace?! Blessings Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32281	From: L. Gove	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work

OOPS! On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:31 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Generally, it is less expensive, in actual dollars, plus your time, to > replace the fixture than to try to fix it. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work > > My light fell into the aquarium and shorted out, I guess - it won't work. > The flourescent bulb does work in a different light fixture. The fixture > is not still full of water. Other things plugged into the same power strip > are working. > > It does look like there may be a ballast or something under the light > fixture itself. > > What do I need to do - replace that ballast? > > It's a 15 watt Petsmart fixture for the 20 gallon tank. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Blessed be Lisa and Spike psd (soon to be a pup in training here) on yahoo kwelyroos71 on MSN kwelyroos71@... on aol kwelyroos1971 google talk kwelyroos71 ICQ 477496656 dark.moon.crafts@... kwelyroos71@... kwelyroos71@... www.myspace.com/adventures_in_lobstering www.myspace.com/loves_my_pipsqeak www.myspace.com/i_am_the_famous_spike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32282	From: Mark Bellinger	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Zeolite crystals

Hi there folks, when using ick treatments, I know you are supposed to remove charcoal from your filtering medium, but what I want to know is, will zeolite crystals affect the ick treatment, do they need to be removed also?  Thanx, Skyak [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32283	From: Mark Bellinger	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Platy school

Hi folks, I have three "rainbow" (green) platies with room for 2 or 3 more (platies).  To keep the peace, should the new tankmates also be rainbows, or is it OK to mix them up with reds, yellows, etc other color type platies?  I ask this question because at one time I had  four female rainbow/green platies but one was heavily "freckled" with black flecks, while the other three, well, I still can barely tell them apart.  The other three always seemed to pick on "Freckles", but I don't know whether that was because  she was added a few weeks later, while the first three joined the tank at the same time, or because she was smaller than the same size other three, or because her coloring really stuck out.  Anyway, I wound up moving Freckles to another tank, and eventually she croaked, so end of that story, and the original three are doing great, but I am now a little cautious about adding  anyone new. My goal with this particular tank is Uber-Peaceful, so not looking for excitement and conflict here.   This also ties into my post about Corys, so if anyone knows the scoop out there, I'd love to hear about it, thanks, Skyak. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32284	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Convict Cichlid is home!

Convict cichlids are aggressive territorial bullies capable of dominating fish twice its size. But hope is not lost fish that are pretty good size and also stay out of the way. So I think tiger barbs or silver dollars, or giant danios will work just fine. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...> wrote: > > I just welcomed my new fish home today, it was a freebie but turned out > more like a rescue!! I got the long 55 gallon (I think) with everything > and the fish for free. But lets just say fish care and tank cleaning > were not a part of the picture! Very dirty and spent the whole > afternoon cleaning things up (rinsing plants, changing water, wiping > off the hood, tank, and outside of filter). A lot of work! I dont know > why but I think he looks like a "Sherlock" so that his name now. He is > doing great and is a fighter to have lived in those conditions for over > a year! Now he will have someone who care about him. Should he be alone > in the tank? Can anything live with a cichlid in peace?! > Blessings > Dr. Katie Craft >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work

But the bigger question would be... is that NOW a non-native, invasive light fixture? It certainly didn't come from the tank and doesn't belong in the tank so I think it fits the parameters.. or does there need to be more evidence or more than one... although I've read reports of this NIS (Non-native Invasive Species) light fixture invading other tanks in the past? I'll call this previously unclassified species the Lightus fixturei. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work Generally, it is less expensive, in actual dollars, plus your time, to replace the fixture than to try to fix it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work My light fell into the aquarium and shorted out, I guess - it won't work. The flourescent bulb does work in a different light fixture. The fixture is not still full of water. Other things plugged into the same power strip are working. It does look like there may be a ballast or something under the light fixture itself. What do I need to do - replace that ballast? It's a 15 watt Petsmart fixture for the 20 gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 10:32:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 12:56:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Convict Cichlid is home!

Might I suggest a name other than Sherlock? After all, Sherlock was a crime fighter, not a convict! Hannibal might be a better name, considering his likely nature. LOL A common 55G has a 48" x 12" footprint and is 21" tall. Are those the dimensions of your new tank? If not, give us your dimensions or you can figure out the volume yourself for US gallons - L" x W" x H" divided by 231 = US Gallons. We would need to know the correct tank size before any other fish could be recommended. I hope you didn't over clean the filter system so you do not have a mini-cycle to deal with. Also, in the future, do not do such a drastic cleaning all at once. The fish actually acclimate to the water parameters in the dirty tank, likely a low pH, KH and GH. It would have been best to slowly acclimate the fish back to good water by doing a series of 10% to 25% PWC's over the course of a couple of days until the water was in good shape, vacuuming the gravel with each PWC, and then you could start cleaning the filter system making sure to keep a sufficient amount of the filter media fully cycled. Fortunately Convict Cichlids are very hardy fish so hopefully he'll do OK but many other fish would suffer from osmotic or pH shock at such a drastic change in water parameters all at once. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Convict Cichlid is home! I just welcomed my new fish home today, it was a freebie but turned out more like a rescue!! I got the long 55 gallon (I think) with everything and the fish for free. But lets just say fish care and tank cleaning were not a part of the picture! Very dirty and spent the whole afternoon cleaning things up (rinsing plants, changing water, wiping off the hood, tank, and outside of filter). A lot of work! I dont know why but I think he looks like a "Sherlock" so that his name now. He is doing great and is a fighter to have lived in those conditions for over a year! Now he will have someone who care about him. Should he be alone in the tank? Can anything live with a cichlid in peace?! Blessings Dr. Katie Craft _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 1:08:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32287	From: Mark Bellinger	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Cory Cats and Company

Hi folks, I've read that cory cats like to be in groups of three or more.  I have one albino cory cat right now, and was wondering if I should get two more albino cory cats, or will a couple other corys of different types like green or jullii or whatever be OK, or do they have to be the same?  Just want happy cats, eh?  Thanx, Skyak [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32288	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!!

Thank you SOOOOOOO much. Bill -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 11/1/2008 8:29:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! I really hate to put an end to the entertainment, but having finally gotten it that there is no information to be gained, I'm quite done discussing the dangers posed by zebra danios to the environment. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! I am going to go insane if I get another daily digest with "RE: Zebra Danios" one more time....come on, enough is enough. Why are we still even considering allowing these posts to go through? Dont they have to be "approved" first...this thread is pointless and going nowhere. I am part of this group to share and learn, not to listen to one person (ahem, DORA!) argue all day everyday!!! Its getting really old! Dr. Katie Craft ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite crystals

YES... Zeolite (if the ammonia absorbing type) should definitely be removed from the filter system if treating a tank with salt as salt water would cause the Zeolite to dump all of the ammonia it has soaked up. That's how we recharge Zeolite for reuse the next time an emergency might occur. What Ich treatment or method are you using? Tell us more about your tank, fish and numbers of each, filter system(s), etc. Zeolite likely would not cause a problem as far as sucking up most meds (like with charcoal) but I'm not sure how the various meds might affect the Zeolite itself so it would be best to remove it when using other meds as well... and especially when using salt as a treatment. Zeolite should not be used in a filter system on a regular basis... only for an emergency situation that might arise with an uncontrollable ammonia spike where the ability to do PWC's isn't an option (like I had for five weeks after Hurricane Katrina down here). The other bad thing about using Zeolite, in an unsalted tank, is that it actually starves your good nitrifying bacteria of the ammonia they need to grow a full sized colony so you would be stuck with having to have two packets of Zeolite and constantly swapping them out when it's time to recharge the packet in the filter. How often should this be done? Too many factors to know for certain which is another reason Zeolite is not good to use on an ongoing basis. If you only have one pack and have to remove it to recharge it, then your tank would experience a mini-cycle (or worse) with an ammonia spike and subsequent nitrite spike. How long has your tank been set up, how long have you been using the Zeolite in your filter system? If you aren't using the salt/heat method of treating Ich, then we need to wean your tank off of the Zeolite so that your filter system can start growing a proper sized nitrifying bacteria colony. A good rule to follow is "95% of the stuff that pet stores sell do not need to be used 95% of the time." I don't use charcoal or anything else in my filters, except for a lot of filter media (except on my goldfish tank where I do run Purigen). The only additive or chemical I use in my tanks on a regular basis is a simple dechlor product that treats chlorine/chloramine and any heavy metals (from my tap water). Certain other fish or heavily planted tanks might need other additives, with each PWC (partial water change), but for a basic tank of community tropical fish, all of the junk they sell simply is not needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Bellinger Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Zeolite crystals Hi there folks, when using ick treatments, I know you are supposed to remove charcoal from your filtering medium, but what I want to know is, will zeolite crystals affect the ick treatment, do they need to be removed also? Thanx, Skyak [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 1:34:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/1/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite crystals

I just answered this post but then I noticed you also posted two other threads about Cory's and Platies. Are these fish in your tank currently affected by Ich? I wouldn't consider adding any new fish right now while you are fighting Ich unless you were going to do the recommended thing and set up separate Q-tanks (quarantine) for the new fish for a couple of weeks so you can be sure your current fish are fully healed and the new fish do not have their own health problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Bellinger Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Zeolite crystals Hi there folks, when using ick treatments, I know you are supposed to remove charcoal from your filtering medium, but what I want to know is, will zeolite crystals affect the ick treatment, do they need to be removed also? Thanx, Skyak [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 1:39:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32291	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Bruce is still just hanging out

So I was thinking about getting some Zebra Danio's.........ROFLMA! No in all seriousness, I visited Bruce today and he was just hanging out people watching. He gave me a big yawn, when he saw me. I think he was looking for some treats. I sure hope someone steps up soon. This ecomony though is tough on everyone. I keep seeing all these huge tanks for sale, instead of people looking to take on teh burden of another monster fish. To bad my house is too small, I already have wall to wall tanks. I have no idea where I would put him, but I am half ready to purchase a huge tank and just bring him home with me. Looks like we wont make my deadline for the free ride, but I am still willing to get him to where he needs to go if anyone knows anyone in the bay area or central valley of Califonia. Thanks for spreading the word.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bruce is still just hanging out

You could build a BIG plywood tank with glass or acrylic front for a lot less than a comparably priced manufactured tank. So... which walk-in closet can you do without? (Preferably one near some existing plumbing) That would give you much of the framework and plumbing needed for the tank. It might mean eBaying off that Imelda Marcos shoe collection but come on.. it's for Bruce.. and the shoe sales could help finance the tank building. ;-) Of course, this presumes you live in a slab based home. A raised home might pose a whole new set of structural issues. I just re-posted my Craigslist Sacramento ad http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pet/902505489.html. How far are you from Reno, NV or any other larger cities? Or have you already posted an ad in the Reno Craigslist, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanangel Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bruce is still just hanging out So I was thinking about getting some Zebra Danio's.........ROFLMA! No in all seriousness, I visited Bruce today and he was just hanging out people watching. He gave me a big yawn, when he saw me. I think he was looking for some treats. I sure hope someone steps up soon. This ecomony though is tough on everyone. I keep seeing all these huge tanks for sale, instead of people looking to take on teh burden of another monster fish. To bad my house is too small, I already have wall to wall tanks. I have no idea where I would put him, but I am half ready to purchase a huge tank and just bring him home with me. Looks like we wont make my deadline for the free ride, but I am still willing to get him to where he needs to go if anyone knows anyone in the bay area or central valley of Califonia. Thanks for spreading the word. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 1:30:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: FW: Decision made...

They do kind of look like a Rosie (O'Donnell). LOL TinyURL's - Rosie - http://tinyurl.com/6ybdl9 (imagine this picture inverted) compared to a real Axolotl - http://tinyurl.com/62x9qz An eerie likeness. LOL Original links that would likely have broken. You'd have to invert the Rosie picture to get a better idea of what I'm picturing. http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070309/070309_RosieUpsid eDown_hmed_3p.hmedium.jpg compared to http://udaythombre.blogspot.com/2007/12/worlds-amazing-animals-axolotl.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lisa Lawless [mailto:lisa_lawless2004@...] Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:01 AM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Re: Decision made... Hi Lenny. I've had them in the past. I love them. or rather lover her...'Rosie' she was called. They're just facinating little creatures... And thankyou for the websites Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 1:42:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32294	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cory Cats and Company

You are best in placing them with their own species, though they will still school if there are none available. You do not define which species your albino is, most likely _Corydoras aneus_ or _C. paleatus_, so you should use one of those as mates, or other albinos of the species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Bellinger Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 12:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cory Cats and Company Hi folks, I've read that cory cats like to be in groups of three or more.  I have one albino cory cat right now, and was wondering if I should get two more albino cory cats, or will a couple other corys of different types like green or jullii or whatever be OK, or do they have to be the same?  Just want happy cats, eh?  Thanx, Skyak [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32295	From: harry perry	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bruce /Send him home

One of the Italian holiday traditions is the meal of 7 fishes. Eel being one of them. Or you could contact one of the animal rights groups and see if someone wants to pay to send him home. I assume you contacted all the zoos and public aquariums. The city of Baltimore in Maryland has an amazing aquarium. It is located in Baltimore inner harbor. The building is the aquarium and you walk up a ramp thru the aquarium so you are surrounded by aquarium on all sides. Bruce would be very happy there. However anyone smaller than Bruce would be a little nervous. You could also Google Ca aquariums. I seem to remember one public aquarium that specialized in sea oddities. Harry --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bruce is still just hanging out To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 2:30 AM You could build a BIG plywood tank with glass or acrylic front for a lot less than a comparably priced manufactured tank. So... which walk-in closet can you do without? (Preferably one near some existing plumbing) That would give you much of the framework and plumbing needed for the tank. It might mean eBaying off that Imelda Marcos shoe collection but come on.. it's for Bruce.. and the shoe sales could help finance the tank building. ;-) Of course, this presumes you live in a slab based home. A raised home might pose a whole new set of structural issues. I just re-posted my Craigslist Sacramento ad http://sacramento. craigslist. org/pet/90250548 9.html. How far are you from Reno, NV or any other larger cities? Or have you already posted an ad in the Reno Craigslist, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanang el Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:58 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bruce is still just hanging out So I was thinking about getting some Zebra Danio's..... ....ROFLMA! No in all seriousness, I visited Bruce today and he was just hanging out people watching. He gave me a big yawn, when he saw me. I think he was looking for some treats. I sure hope someone steps up soon. This ecomony though is tough on everyone. I keep seeing all these huge tanks for sale, instead of people looking to take on teh burden of another monster fish. To bad my house is too small, I already have wall to wall tanks. I have no idea where I would put him, but I am half ready to purchase a huge tank and just bring him home with me. Looks like we wont make my deadline for the free ride, but I am still willing to get him to where he needs to go if anyone knows anyone in the bay area or central valley of Califonia. Thanks for spreading the word. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 1:30:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32296	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bruce /Send him home

I re-posted my ad on the Sacramento Craigslist a little earlier and got the below replies and sent this one to Loretta. "Thanks for the reply. We've been checking for several weeks with all kinds of businesses, universities, etc. Also the service companies that take care of other people tanks. So far, no takers. Please feel free to pass on the link to this ad http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pet/902505489.html and/or post the ad in any other Craigslist's or other forums that you might know of. I figure the more people we get the message out to, the better Bruce's chances." Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: loretta Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:16 AM To: comm-902505489@... Subject: Bruce Hi I had an idea - I don't know of any personally, but maybe a hospital or doctor's office? Does he need to be alone in his tank, or can he be with other fish? Some hospitals and doctor's offices have really huge tanks, but of course they already have fish in them. Just a thought. Hope it helps :) Loretta Hi I had another thought! Duh, have you tried to contact the places who clean the local aquariums? They could certainly tell you who has a very large tank! Again, don't know who, but a thought. Good luck :) Loretta -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bruce /Send him home One of the Italian holiday traditions is the meal of 7 fishes. Eel being one of them. Or you could contact one of the animal rights groups and see if someone wants to pay to send him home. I assume you contacted all the zoos and public aquariums. The city of Baltimore in Maryland has an amazing aquarium. It is located in Baltimore inner harbor. The building is the aquarium and you walk up a ramp thru the aquarium so you are surrounded by aquarium on all sides. Bruce would be very happy there. However anyone smaller than Bruce would be a little nervous. You could also Google Ca aquariums. I seem to remember one public aquarium that specialized in sea oddities. Harry --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bruce is still just hanging out To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 2:30 AM You could build a BIG plywood tank with glass or acrylic front for a lot less than a comparably priced manufactured tank. So... which walk-in closet can you do without? (Preferably one near some existing plumbing) That would give you much of the framework and plumbing needed for the tank. It might mean eBaying off that Imelda Marcos shoe collection but come on.. it's for Bruce.. and the shoe sales could help finance the tank building. ;-) Of course, this presumes you live in a slab based home. A raised home might pose a whole new set of structural issues. I just re-posted my Craigslist Sacramento ad http://sacramento. craigslist. org/pet/90250548 9.html. How far are you from Reno, NV or any other larger cities? Or have you already posted an ad in the Reno Craigslist, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of devillookslikeanang el Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:58 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bruce is still just hanging out So I was thinking about getting some Zebra Danio's..... ....ROFLMA! No in all seriousness, I visited Bruce today and he was just hanging out people watching. He gave me a big yawn, when he saw me. I think he was looking for some treats. I sure hope someone steps up soon. This ecomony though is tough on everyone. I keep seeing all these huge tanks for sale, instead of people looking to take on teh burden of another monster fish. To bad my house is too small, I already have wall to wall tanks. I have no idea where I would put him, but I am half ready to purchase a huge tank and just bring him home with me. Looks like we wont make my deadline for the free ride, but I am still willing to get him to where he needs to go if anyone knows anyone in the bay area or central valley of Califonia. Thanks for spreading the word. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 3:33:09 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32297	From: harry perry	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: salt water tank!/Bio Spira

When it was called bio spira, there was a salt water version. Perhaps Dr. Tim's one and only, previously called Bio Spira, has a salt water version. Harry --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Courtland Jacob <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: From: Courtland Jacob <courtland_jacob@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 8:48 PM ok so i bought the bio cube, larger size i like being able to time my day/night cycle and the tank looks good all set up and i have a good little live rock set up. now for the advice. i have heard conflicting views on starting a saltwater tank, one or two people say in a few days start with some cleaners and slowly add fish, other say don't touch the tank for 8 weeks and wait for the ammonia spike and the tank will naturally cycle itself. the live rock has already been cured, i bought the water already mixed and seeded and then of course some live sand. some have said that the wait time after setting up the aquarium is to cure the live rock, some say it still needs to cycle for 8 weeks so i want to know what you guys think. how long do i need to wait? how slowly do i introduce new life, how often do i test? any advice i can get will be greatly appreciated, you guys have given me a lot of great advice so i trust a lot of what i read here [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: salt water tank!/Bio Spira

Yes, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com has a SW version of their "One And Only" instant cycling product. I guess with the cost of setting up a SW aquarium, the price of One And Only would be a small price to pay to make sure there is plenty of nitrifying bacteria. I was going to ask.. isn't that the purpose of having live rock and live sand though.. because those are already cycled? But I guess they would have to be constantly fed an ammonia source or the nitrifying bacteria would die off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] salt water tank!/Bio Spira When it was called bio spira, there was a salt water version. Perhaps Dr. Tim's one and only, previously called Bio Spira, has a salt water version. Harry --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Courtland Jacob <courtland_jacob@... <mailto:courtland_jacob%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: Courtland Jacob <courtland_jacob@... <mailto:courtland_jacob%40yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 8:48 PM ok so i bought the bio cube, larger size i like being able to time my day/night cycle and the tank looks good all set up and i have a good little live rock set up. now for the advice. i have heard conflicting views on starting a saltwater tank, one or two people say in a few days start with some cleaners and slowly add fish, other say don't touch the tank for 8 weeks and wait for the ammonia spike and the tank will naturally cycle itself. the live rock has already been cured, i bought the water already mixed and seeded and then of course some live sand. some have said that the wait time after setting up the aquarium is to cure the live rock, some say it still needs to cycle for 8 weeks so i want to know what you guys think. how long do i need to wait? how slowly do i introduce new life, how often do i test? any advice i can get will be greatly appreciated, you guys have given me a lot of great advice so i trust a lot of what i read here _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 4:02:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32299	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Platy school

Platies are not what you'd call schooling fish they like to group though. They are pretty peaceful, but if you add any other livebearers right now make sure that they are pretty good size because of the inquisitive nature of fish as soon as you put the new platies in the tank they are likely to get bullied. But any platies will work color wise. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Mark Bellinger <skyak52@...> wrote: > > Hi folks, > I have three "rainbow" (green) platies with room for 2 or 3 more (platies).  To keep the peace, should the new tankmates also be rainbows, or is it OK to mix them up with reds, yellows, etc other color type platies?  I ask this question because at one time I had  four female rainbow/green platies but one was heavily "freckled" with black flecks, while the other three, well, I still can barely tell them apart.  The other three always seemed to pick on "Freckles", but I don't know whether that was because  she was added a few weeks later, while the first three joined the tank at the same time, or because she was smaller than the same size other three, or because her coloring really stuck out.  Anyway, I wound up moving Freckles to another tank, and eventually she croaked, so end of that story, and the original three are doing great, but I am now a little cautious about adding  anyone new. My goal with this particular tank is Uber- Peaceful, so not > looking for excitement and conflict here. >   This also ties into my post about Corys, so if anyone knows the scoop out there, I'd love to hear about it, thanks, Skyak. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32300	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cory Cats and Company

To answer that question I would have to say that it depends on the cory's peronality. I've had groups of cories of different types that grouped together just fine, and I've had some that only prefered the same type. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Mark Bellinger <skyak52@...> wrote: > > Hi folks, > I've read that cory cats like to be in groups of three or more.  I have one albino cory cat right now, and was wondering if I should get two more albino cory cats, or will a couple other corys of different types like green or jullii or whatever be OK, or do they have to be the same?  Just want happy cats, eh?  Thanx, Skyak > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32301	From: GrammyPat	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: pvc pipe

I have a Pleco in one tank and a skunk loach that I never see. Would either of these enjoy a PVC cave? Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32302	From: harry perry	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: pvc pipe/Caves

Plecos seem to like wood. I don't know about the loach. Of course the pleco is in a 150 gal. tank since they grow to 14" Harry --- On Sun, 11/2/08, GrammyPat <grammypat@...> wrote: From: GrammyPat <grammypat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] pvc pipe To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 8:46 AM I have a Pleco in one tank and a skunk loach that I never see. Would either of these enjoy a PVC cave? Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32303	From: GrammyPat	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cory Cats and Company

I read they like to be in a group. I just got 6 Panda corys yesterday and I already love them. They are the cutest little guys. They were in the quarantine tank about 5 seconds before they started cleaning up the substrate and investigating everything. Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32304	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Sherlock the Cichlid

Thanks for the help everyone. Someone brought up his name - it was my idea of a joke - I named him Sherlock becuase he has had so many "homes" (get it? Holmes - homes?) I know, not very funny ;) I didnt touch the filter media, just changed the cartridge that was over 6 months old - smelly and nasty. I also didnt gravel vak yet but had to get him in the tank ASAP so he wouldnt die from the travel and being in a bag. The water had to be drained to make this tank liftable and so I could drive home with it, so doing small water changes was out of the question in this case, not only that but leaving that "slime" in there would smell up the whole room. It was gross and I still need ot clean. I cant enjoy it, or feel like Sherlock has a proper place, until this tank is cleaner and less nasty. Did I mention they said no has cleaned it in 6 months or more??? I dont know how he lived. I really want to just dump the gravel becuase I feel like I will never get it clean enough to not stink. I feel very overwhelmed! I had no idea it was in this shape! It better than it was, but not good enough yet..gross Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32305	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: pvc pipe/Caves

Depends on the species to depict what size they grow to. The standard pleco is usually at 2ft by the 3rd year or so. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 05:51:04 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pvc pipe/Caves Plecos seem to like wood. I don't know about the loach. Of course the pleco is in a 150 gal. tank since they grow to 14" Harry --- On Sun, 11/2/08, GrammyPat <grammypat@...> wrote: From: GrammyPat <grammypat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] pvc pipe To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 8:46 AM I have a Pleco in one tank and a skunk loach that I never see. Would either of these enjoy a PVC cave? Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32306	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Help me choose - vote on name!

Ok - I really liked the name given to in this group for my new Convict Cichlid - Hannibal. I was thinking Sherlock because he has had so many "homes" so far, and I thought he looks like a Sherlock. But he also looks like a Hannibal LOL! Help! Help me choose his new name by telling me which you like best. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32307	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Cichlid Update

Thank you so much for your help! I'm thinking I should wait a little before adding other fish since I'm gonna have to do more water changes today to try to get this tank live-able. Should I toss the originally filter if its pretty dirty? I already changes the cartridge TWICE already, the water is horrible! It smelled bad at first at was almost a light green with lots of debris. I bought some algae destroyer but haven't used it because the labels on it and every other kind have a warning that the ingredients cause cancer!!! My fish is in there! My hands go in there all the time! Wouldn't that put us at risk?? I bought another filter and now have the new and the old filter both set up to try and combat the murkiness. I ran them overnight and it seemed to help a little. I am having trouble with the airstone though. With all the surface agitation, do I need one? Will he be OK without one? He is afraid of the one thats in there - they never ran it. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32308	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Help me choose - vote on name!

I kind of like the name "Sherlock," like he's always smart enough to have all the answers (and Cichlids are smart, for being fish). Hannibal always reminds me of that guy from Africa that came over the Alps on elephants to fight the Romans. Probably nothing wrong with naming him that -- he is quite the warrior for having gone through as much as he did -- but I still prefer Sherlock. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...> wrote: > > Ok - I really liked the name given to in this group for my new Convict > Cichlid - Hannibal. I was thinking Sherlock because he has had so > many "homes" so far, and I thought he looks like a Sherlock. But he > also looks like a Hannibal LOL! Help! Help me choose his new name by > telling me which you like best. > Blessings > Dr. Katie Craft >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32309	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: salt water tank!/Bio Spira

there are other organisms on the rock as well that die off releasing ammonia for the bacteria and some of the bacteria dies to release ammonia as well so the system cycles itself --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com has a SW version of their "One And Only" > instant cycling product. I guess with the cost of setting up a SW aquarium, > the price of One And Only would be a small price to pay to make sure there > is plenty of nitrifying bacteria. > > I was going to ask.. isn't that the purpose of having live rock and live > sand though.. because those are already cycled? But I guess they would > have to be constantly fed an ammonia source or the nitrifying bacteria would > die off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] salt water tank!/Bio Spira > > When it was called bio spira, there was a salt water version. Perhaps Dr. > Tim's one and only, previously called Bio Spira, has a salt water version. > > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Courtland Jacob <courtland_jacob@... > <mailto:courtland_jacob%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > From: Courtland Jacob <courtland_jacob@... > <mailto:courtland_jacob%40yahoo.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 8:48 PM > > ok so i bought the bio cube, larger size i like being able to time my > > day/night cycle and the tank looks good all set up and i have a good > > little live rock set up. now for the advice. i have heard conflicting > > views on starting a saltwater tank, one or two people say in a few > > days start with some cleaners and slowly add fish, other say don't > > touch the tank for 8 weeks and wait for the ammonia spike and the tank > > will naturally cycle itself. > > the live rock has already been cured, i bought the water already mixed > > and seeded and then of course some live sand. some have said that the > > wait time after setting up the aquarium is to cure the live rock, some > > say it still needs to cycle for 8 weeks so i want to know what you > > guys think. how long do i need to wait? how slowly do i introduce new > > life, how often do i test? any advice i can get will be greatly > > appreciated, you guys have given me a lot of great advice so i trust a > > lot of what i read here > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 > Tested on: 11/2/2008 4:02:28 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32310	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: pvc pipe

The pleco would like a piece of driftwood if you don't have some already. In fact many of the commonly available plecos and especially the "Common Pleco" (several species fall into this common name) which actually gnaw on driftwood as part of their natural diet. They would both likely take up refuge in a PVC pipe cave as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of GrammyPat Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pvc pipe I have a Pleco in one tank and a skunk loach that I never see. Would either of these enjoy a PVC cave? Grammy Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 10:58:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Help me choose - vote on name!

There are many infamous convicts (criminals) in every country. You might want to choose one local to your area. Where are you located? It was me who suggested Hannibal The Cannibal since Convict Cichlids are infamous for eating up other fish. LOL Some infamous criminals/convicts in the USA would be Machine Gun Kelly, Al "Scarface" Capone (does yours have scars on his face from previous fighting?), The Birdman Of Alcatraz, etc. If you lived in Louisiana, you could choose from our many political convicts, like "Fast Eddie" Edwards (our imprisoned former Governor and "Fast Eddie" was his nickname long before he was finally convicted on various corruption charges http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0601badbet.htm .. "Fast Eddie" is a classic criminal name.), our soon to be convicted US Congressman, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson (he got caught with $90,000 of marked bribery money hidden in his freezer and is awaiting trial) and too many others to name. Then there are many infamous Outlaws who may not have ever served time but would still have names recognized for "convicts" like Billy The Kid, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Bonnie & Clyde (if you get a mated pair), etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help me choose - vote on name! Ok - I really liked the name given to in this group for my new Convict Cichlid - Hannibal. I was thinking Sherlock because he has had so many "homes" so far, and I thought he looks like a Sherlock. But he also looks like a Hannibal LOL! Help! Help me choose his new name by telling me which you like best. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 11:22:20 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32312	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Help me choose - vote on name!

Oooops.. forgot some other infamous outlaws like Jesse James, "Pretty Boy" Floyd, "Baby Face" Nelson. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help me choose - vote on name! Ok - I really liked the name given to in this group for my new Convict Cichlid - Hannibal. I was thinking Sherlock because he has had so many "homes" so far, and I thought he looks like a Sherlock. But he also looks like a Hannibal LOL! Help! Help me choose his new name by telling me which you like best. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 11:24:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32313	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid Update

DO NOT use that Algae Destroyer stuff or any other bottle algaecide or most other chemicals that the pet stores might try and sell you. Bring it back and get your money back. I think we talked about this before. 95% of the crap they sell in pet stores is not needed 95% of the time. Check out here first instead of making the extra trip to the store to return stuff. Without going into details, when a tank has an abundance of algae, that algae is likely saving the fishes lives by sucking up a lot of the nasties like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, high CO2 levels, etc. It also puts out lots of O2 into the water. If you kill off the algae, the pollution and CO2 levels could rise dramatically and the O2 levels could drop badly making things much worse. Like I said before, you need to slowly change the environment back to one that suits you giving the fish a chance to acclimate to the environmental changes slowly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cichlid Update Thank you so much for your help! I'm thinking I should wait a little before adding other fish since I'm gonna have to do more water changes today to try to get this tank live-able. Should I toss the originally filter if its pretty dirty? I already changes the cartridge TWICE already, the water is horrible! It smelled bad at first at was almost a light green with lots of debris. I bought some algae destroyer but haven't used it because the labels on it and every other kind have a warning that the ingredients cause cancer!!! My fish is in there! My hands go in there all the time! Wouldn't that put us at risk?? I bought another filter and now have the new and the old filter both set up to try and combat the murkiness. I ran them overnight and it seemed to help a little. I am having trouble with the airstone though. With all the surface agitation, do I need one? Will he be OK without one? He is afraid of the one thats in there - they never ran it. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 10:29:39 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 11:30:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32314	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Cichlid Update

I don't see anything else on this thread except for your one message - - unless perhaps you changed the subject title -- so I'm wonder what help was offered that you're referring to. I replied to your plight (and 3 other messages) early this morning at 1:30AM, but haven't seen any of them and presume them being lost. By "changing" the filter cartridge, do you mean you are putting new ones in? If so, I can understand how dirty they must be getting, and fast, but unless you're cleaning the old cartridge with tank water, you're throwing out any nitrifying bacteria you mght have. With the condition of the water though, this might be unavoidable, so you'll have to recycle the tank anew when you get the water sufficiently clean. By "tossing the original filter," do you mean the actual unit itself (I notice you've already replaced the cartridges)? If it can be fairly well cleaned at this time, I'd go that route, again using aquarium water -- take a couple gallons from one of your other tanks. With the gravel being as bad as you describe, its too bad you didn't clean it (or replace it) as you first set it up. You might still consider that if its really that bad -- and if the water is still very poor. Otherwise, as long as you're at it, it will take additional work, but keep doing PWC's (20% - 25%) every hour or so, with vacuuming the gravel, until you get it near where you want it; the filter should do the rest. The bad smell of the water is being caused by the gravel containing anaerobic bacteria, rotting (putrifying) whatever organic debris is present in the layers of the gravel -- it does need a good cleaning (or change). A good rule to keep in mind in fish maintenance is to never add chemical of any kind if you don't have to. Yes, sometimes it may become necessary, but there's so much junk out on the market that they're far better off without. The best way to remove most of that algae in this case, if its suspended in the water is to ophysically remove it with PWC's first, then let the filter do the small amount left. If the algae condition is half as bad as you describe, adding chemicals to kill it will only result in a mass die-out of it (a "crash") which will create a hugh bacteria bloom, depleting the water of oxygen. If you can get the airstone going, all well and good, as this will keep the remainder of the algae in suspension (after the PWC's) to be picked up by your filter. If you can't, you probably have enough water surface movement in the tank for now with the filter action, from what you're describing. Ray ---In Yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...> wrote: > > Thank you so much for your help! I'm thinking I should wait a little > before adding other fish since I'm gonna have to do more water changes > today to try to get this tank live-able. Should I toss the originally > filter if its pretty dirty? I already changes the cartridge TWICE > already, the water is horrible! It smelled bad at first at was almost a > light green with lots of debris. I bought some algae destroyer but > haven't used it because the labels on it and every other kind have a > warning that the ingredients cause cancer!!! My fish is in there! My > hands go in there all the time! Wouldn't that put us at risk?? I bought > another filter and now have the new and the old filter > both set up to try and combat the murkiness. I ran them overnight > and it seemed to help a little. I am having > trouble with the airstone though. With all the surface agitation, do I > need one? Will he be OK without one? He is afraid of the one thats in > there - they never ran it. > Blessings > Dr. Katie Craft >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32315	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Help me choose - vote on name!

...or Vlad (the impale r) or Gilly (le tine.)  lol Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2008 9:24:46 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help me choose - vote on name! Oooops.. forgot some other infamous outlaws like Jesse James, "Pretty Boy" Floyd, "Baby Face" Nelson. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help me choose - vote on name! Ok - I really liked the name given to in this group for my new Convict Cichlid - Hannibal. I was thinking Sherlock because he has had so many "homes" so far, and I thought he looks like a Sherlock. But he also looks like a Hannibal LOL! Help! Help me choose his new name by telling me which you like best. Blessings Dr. Katie Craft _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 11:24:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32316	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: new cichlid!

thanks for the advice about whether to add more fish to the upgraded 55 gallon, i added just two to be safe and everything is doing great, i'll wait another few weeks to add more, one was another german peacock, a bit brighter in color than the last, and a different one that i forget the name of, i relly like him and haven't seen many like him around in stores i added a picture of him to the court's tank album, i have my eye on a couple of $90 cichlids that were wild caught so the colors are amazing, one is this bright yellow sunshine anyways thanks a lot guys

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32317	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: new cichlid!

Have you ever looked at the "Cookie Cutter Setups" for suggestions or plans for 55G tanks at http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_55g.php? It might help you avoid stocking conflicts, compatibility issues, fighting, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new cichlid! thanks for the advice about whether to add more fish to the upgraded 55 gallon, i added just two to be safe and everything is doing great, i'll wait another few weeks to add more, one was another german peacock, a bit brighter in color than the last, and a different one that i forget the name of, i relly like him and haven't seen many like him around in stores i added a picture of him to the court's tank album, i have my eye on a couple of $90 cichlids that were wild caught so the colors are amazing, one is this bright yellow sunshine anyways thanks a lot guys _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 2:34:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32318	From: skyak52	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: The Dreaded Zeolite

Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/zeolite systems so I though "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had any trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of mind-blowing. My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these sorts of problems before. My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two albino cats were with him. so I don't know. Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32319	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

Yeah... the filter companies want you to use it so they often include it in their new filter systems. Their interest is in getting you to have to constantly buy more filter packets/cartridges. Same with many HOB type filter systems coming with instructions to change the cartridge every month or so... their interest is selling you a constant supply of cartridges when they are not needed. On most of my filter systems, I still have the original filter media/cartridge still running on them from several years ago. The only time most filter media should be trashed is when it's starting to decompose which doesn't happen very often. In fact, throwing away a cycled cartridge actually is BAD for your tank since that is where the overwhelming majority of the good nitrifying bacteria lives (or lived if you've thrown it away) so you would be putting your fully cycled tank into a mini-cycle every month. I have a long article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" on my blog which is really important for newbies to read over so they don't make many of the common mistakes I cover, including filter additives like Zeolite, Carbon, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skyak52 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/zeolite systems so I though "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had any trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of mind-blowing. My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these sorts of problems before. My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two albino cats were with him. so I don't know. Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 3:35:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 3:45:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32320	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: New to the group :)

Hi everyone! :) Currently I have 2 tanks, with a possibility of getting another some day if I find a good deal on a bigger tank. I have a small 10 gallon with just a male crown-tail beta in it. I have a 55 gallon tank with a mix of fish. Right now everything is small and fits great in the tank, but I am sure when my bigger fish grow up I may have to move one of my schools out. I have 7 glowlight danio's, 5 flame tetras, 2 angel fish, 1 cory cat (the others died of fin and tail rot), 2 male flame dwarf gouramie's, 1 female beta, 5 otocynclis cats (I bet I spelled that wrong too, hehe), and a dwarf frog, which I'm going to throw into the 10 gallon with my beta, but haven't felt like trying to find him in my big tank yet ;) lol. I also added a new addition to the tank yesterday, a baby gold severum (yes I know they get huge, but they can't be any worse or dirtier than oscars or convicts which I had years ago). I know I have a full tank and will probably have to move a few fish around, which is why I have been on the lookout for a used tank I could get sometime next year. I was also thinking of splitting up my dwarf gouramie's and putting one in with my beta, the 2 of them are pretty territorial in my big tank, and I thought it might help. I wanted to get a few cory's to keep my lonely albino aeneus cory company, but they are out of them at the fish store for now. I've had a hard time keeping tetra's alive the last couple of months and figure that I may end up loosing my flame tetra's at some point anyways, they just aren't that hardy of fish. I lost my last school to the fin and tail rot a couple of weeks back. The fish store said I should be okay with my gold severum and my schools of fish, but she did say that I may lose my female beta, as she might not be semi-aggressive enough. My danio's rule the upper part of my tank, they're like a little gang, and the tetra's seem to come and go in the group. The bottom of my tank is ruled by the gouramie's and the angel fish, my new severum so far has been just exploring the tank and trying to stay out of the way of my angel fish. All of the fish are young, the tank is around 2 months "old" (it was sitting in storage for a few years, so I had to re-establish the bacteria and all that). My angel's are still babies as well. Anyways, done with my babbling, thanks for having me in the group :) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32321	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: FW: Decision made...

So that being said. Could i have a fancy goldfish in the same 20gal tank with the mexican walking fish? Like an oranda or a ryukin? Cause they're both coldwater and i will have room this time for a filter....   Lisa   Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32322	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

Please do keep in mind that zeolite is, more or less, a generic term. There are a number of materials out there that can remove various substances we do not want in our tanks. You were using the kind that pulls the ammonia out, which is not really desirable in fish environments since we would rather establish a biological cycle to do this for us as it will create a more stable environment for the fish. Even small amounts of ammonia can be toxic to fish over the long term, and for some fish, the short term. Here is a list of the various minerals that are zeolites: * Amicite * Analcime * Barrerite * Bellbergite * Bikitaite * Boggsite * Brewsterite * Chabazite * Clinoptilolite * Cowlesite * Dachiardite * Edingtonite * Epistilbite * Erionite * Faujasite * Ferrierite * Garronite * Gismondine * Gmelinite * Gobbinsite * Gonnardite * Goosecreekite * Harmotome * Herschelite * Heulandite * Laumontite * Levyne * Maricopaite * Mazzite * Merlinoite * Mesolite * Montesommaite * Mordenite * Natrolite * Offretite * Paranatrolite * Paulingite * Pentasil * Perlialite * Phillipsite * Pollucite * Scolecite * Sodium Dachiardite * Stellerite * Stilbite * Tetranatrolite * Thomsonite * Tschernichite * Wairakite * Wellsite * Willhendersonite * Yugawaralite \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skyak52 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/zeolite systems so I though "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had any trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of mind-blowing. My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these sorts of problems before. My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two albino cats were with him. so I don't know. Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32323	From: danf2346	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Introduce myself

Hi everyone, I am excited to chat with others about this absolutely great hobby! I have had fish tanks most of my life, but took a short time off after finishing school. I just picked it back up about a year ago. I cant believe I was away from it for so long! I am having more fun then ever with it. I read as much info as possible on several topics of keeping our little friends as healthy and happy as possible. I look forward to reading about your experiences and hoping I meet some cool people that can maybe answer questions I will have, and sharing my experiences too. Dan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32324	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :)

The fin/tail rot issues with your Cory's could be related to not vacuuming your gravel enough during PWC's (partial water changes). Detritus in the gravel becomes an active breeding ground for bad bacteria and since the Cory's are mostly bottom dwellers, this would likely affect them first. If you haven't already done so, you should do a series of 25% PWC's, once a day or two or three in one day every couple of hours, vacuuming your gravel until the gravel siphon tube is coming up clear. This will improve your overall ecology and also suck up a lot of the bad bacteria that might be breeding in the detritus. As far as your stocking, as you indicated or seem to already know, you are on the verge of being severely overstocked. Even with the 2 angelfish and all of your other fish, the 55G was heavily stocked and then the addition of the Severum (grows to 14" and need at least a 75G tank on their own so you should be on the lookout for that ASAP), as your fish grow, you will have many more health issues. I know the tank doesn't look full when you first add a bunch of baby or juvi fish but that is when it's most important to NOT overstock the tank and stocking should be based on the expected adult size.. not their current size... so they have adequate water volume to not cause stunting issues. A stunted fish is far more likely to have immune system issues related to the stress of being stunted and that will lead to many more health issues. To help avoid the stunting and to improve overall water quality, you should be doing a couple of 25% PWC's each week until you are able to get the tanks in better stocking shape, then you could cut back to once a week or so, depending on the bioload. Moving the dwarf frog into the 10G Betta tank will help with the bioload in the 55G and the 10G will still be OK but don't throw anything else in there and watch the Betta to make sure he's OK with his new tank mate. I'm sure you might have some other stocking issues and compatibility issues but I wanted to address the necessity for doing frequent PWC's right now. Check out the profiles for each of your fish on http://fish.mongabay.com and pay attention to their suggested companions, water chemistry preferences, tank size and water volume recommendations, etc. Last but not least... stay out of the fish stores and avoid the aquarium section at the pet stores until you get more and bigger tanks! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) Hi everyone! :) Currently I have 2 tanks, with a possibility of getting another some day if I find a good deal on a bigger tank. I have a small 10 gallon with just a male crown-tail beta in it. I have a 55 gallon tank with a mix of fish. Right now everything is small and fits great in the tank, but I am sure when my bigger fish grow up I may have to move one of my schools out. I have 7 glowlight danio's, 5 flame tetras, 2 angel fish, 1 cory cat (the others died of fin and tail rot), 2 male flame dwarf gouramie's, 1 female beta, 5 otocynclis cats (I bet I spelled that wrong too, hehe), and a dwarf frog, which I'm going to throw into the 10 gallon with my beta, but haven't felt like trying to find him in my big tank yet ;) lol. I also added a new addition to the tank yesterday, a baby gold severum (yes I know they get huge, but they can't be any worse or dirtier than oscars or convicts which I had years ago). I know I have a full tank and will probably have to move a few fish around, which is why I have been on the lookout for a used tank I could get sometime next year. I was also thinking of splitting up my dwarf gouramie's and putting one in with my beta, the 2 of them are pretty territorial in my big tank, and I thought it might help. I wanted to get a few cory's to keep my lonely albino aeneus cory company, but they are out of them at the fish store for now. I've had a hard time keeping tetra's alive the last couple of months and figure that I may end up loosing my flame tetra's at some point anyways, they just aren't that hardy of fish. I lost my last school to the fin and tail rot a couple of weeks back. The fish store said I should be okay with my gold severum and my schools of fish, but she did say that I may lose my female beta, as she might not be semi-aggressive enough. My danio's rule the upper part of my tank, they're like a little gang, and the tetra's seem to come and go in the group. The bottom of my tank is ruled by the gouramie's and the angel fish, my new severum so far has been just exploring the tank and trying to stay out of the way of my angel fish. All of the fish are young, the tank is around 2 months "old" (it was sitting in storage for a few years, so I had to re-establish the bacteria and all that). My angel's are still babies as well. Anyways, done with my babbling, thanks for having me in the group :) Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 4:50:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32325	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Introduce myself

Hi Dan. Welcome to the group. So glad to hear you got back into the hobby again. It's so relaxing, and i believe it adds life to the room that the tank is in. They are many great people on this list who i know will be more then willing to offer some helpful advice should you require it. What type of set up are you doing? Cheers Lisa (Australia)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32326	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :)

I already do partial water changes often, usually every couple of days depending on how the tank looks. I also check the PH/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels at least once a week to make sure nothing is changing too often. I have boiler water and it's not quite the same as the rest of our city water, I haven't pinpointed what it has extra in it, but I have found out that it's close to neutral PH, around 6.5. And it's also Ammonia free which is good, as I had heard that some boiler systems use extra ammonia to compensate for the old pipes. I think my Cory's had a weakened slime coat from the tank having cycling issues in the first month (they were one of the first fish I got). I plan on getting a bigger tank at some point for my living room, I have my 2 tanks in my computer room right now, but would like to have a tank for downstairs. I would love to find a 100 gallon but I doubt I will be that lucky. The fish store has an old tank sitting outside full of rainwater (it holds water obviously as it's full, lol), not sure why it has been sitting outside, but I was thinking of asking what size it is and if they might sell it. It looks like it's a 55 gallon, but hard to tell just by looking at it as I walk by and not measuring it at all. I live on an island in Alaska, so it's not the easiest to get a good deal on a fish tank, and I'd rather not have to order one from the fish store as I'm sure it would cost quite a bit with shipping and all that. I didn't know that the severum could get that big, I had read 10-12 inches when I was researching it online. I'm glad I only got one of the little guys, and the smallest that they had (he's only an inch right now). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32327	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

It depends on what was said and by whom? There's nothing included in your reply to show who or what you are referring to. A fancy goldfish gets too big for a 20G. 30G per goldfish would be a bare minimum that I would recommend or two fancies in a 55G 4' tank is doable. Believe me, I have two full grown fancies in a 65G 48" x 18" tank and I do weekly gravel vacuuming and PWC's and you should see the amount of detritus that comes out of the gravel with each PWC. I can't imagine trying to keep them in anything smaller or going more than a week without vacuuming the gravel. If you don't want to have to do frequent tank maintenance, filter maintenance, PWC's, etc., then 50G per fish or more would be required. Trying to keep these BIG fish in an undersized tank or overstocking them will only lead to many headaches, illnesses, stunted fish, early deaths, etc... unless someone has the ability to plumb their tank where it gets a constant supply of fresh water. I've read about people with wells, where they have an unlimited supply of "free" water, plumbing their tanks so they have a constant supply of fresh water coming into one end of the tank and an overflow valve on the other end of the tank for the dirty water to flow out and down the drain. This results in a 100% or more, daily flow of fresh water through the tank flushing the hormones, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, fish poop, etc., down the drain. The fish would then grow to full size in an undersized tank with this scenario. BTW... I've never seen anyone try to keep an Axolotl (Mexican Walking Fish) with goldfish before so I can't comment on their compatibility. This care sheet suggests that they be kept in a species only tank. http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/caresheets/caresheet.php?caresheetID=98 and will eat fish so a slow moving fancy goldfish could become a meal... especially when they are small. This care sheet has an opposite problem with fish nipping at their external gills. http://www.axolotl.org/requirements.htm#other Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:FW: Decision made... So that being said. Could i have a fancy goldfish in the same 20gal tank with the mexican walking fish? Like an oranda or a ryukin? Cause they're both coldwater and i will have room this time for a filter.... Lisa Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151 <http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011> &pid=1011 <http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151 <http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011> &pid=1011> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 4:36:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 5:26:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32328	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

So \\Steve//, Did you type that list or a copy/paste? LOL I think the only zeolite I've ever seen in the various pet stores and LFS I've been too have been the kind that are used for sucking up ammonia. Do you know which of the below list is the one? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Please do keep in mind that zeolite is, more or less, a generic term. There are a number of materials out there that can remove various substances we do not want in our tanks. You were using the kind that pulls the ammonia out, which is not really desirable in fish environments since we would rather establish a biological cycle to do this for us as it will create a more stable environment for the fish. Even small amounts of ammonia can be toxic to fish over the long term, and for some fish, the short term. Here is a list of the various minerals that are zeolites: * Amicite * Analcime * Barrerite * Bellbergite * Bikitaite * Boggsite * Brewsterite * Chabazite * Clinoptilolite * Cowlesite * Dachiardite * Edingtonite * Epistilbite * Erionite * Faujasite * Ferrierite * Garronite * Gismondine * Gmelinite * Gobbinsite * Gonnardite * Goosecreekite * Harmotome * Herschelite * Heulandite * Laumontite * Levyne * Maricopaite * Mazzite * Merlinoite * Mesolite * Montesommaite * Mordenite * Natrolite * Offretite * Paranatrolite * Paulingite * Pentasil * Perlialite * Phillipsite * Pollucite * Scolecite * Sodium Dachiardite * Stellerite * Stilbite * Tetranatrolite * Thomsonite * Tschernichite * Wairakite * Wellsite * Willhendersonite * Yugawaralite \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of skyak52 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/zeolite systems so I though "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had any trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of mind-blowing. My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these sorts of problems before. My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two albino cats were with him. so I don't know. Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak. ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 4:46:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 5:33:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: FW: [AquaticLife] Bruce /Send him home

DevilLooksLikeAnAngel (I didn't see your real name on a recent post.. lol), I just got this email from my latest re-post on the Sacramento Craigslist. Are you near Modesto? This could be a good lead!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Perez Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:28 PM To: comm-902505489@... Subject: Bruce You need to call my buddy Ted at Tropical Haven in Modesto. They should have the room for him and their tanks are well kept. It's an old school pet store that has a bunch of huge trade in fish... 209-522-4706 Just tell him that Dan, they guy that owned the cookie shop told you to call... _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 5:34:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32330	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :)

One of the things I've found about water from hot water heaters (and I'm guessing a boiler might be the same), is that the distillery effect causes many of the trace elements to come out of suspension so the water coming from a hot water heater tends to be much softer and lower pH. This is why hot water heaters should be flushed/drained every year, to remove all of the junk that builds up in the bottom of their tanks. Do boilers also have this issue/need? Do you have test kits of GH and KH? Another good thing would be to do a baseline series of tests. See my blog for "Find your tap/source water baseline". If you are testing your tap water right out the tap, the chemistry could be much different than what the actual water chemistry is. It's best to fill a gallon bucket, test it. Wait 24 hours, test again, then another 24 hours and test again. This last test will give you a better idea of what your tap water parameters are really like once it gets in the tank. I'm not sure what size I said about the Severum but 12" is an accurate expected adult size. I may have made a typo if I said something larger. Remember, even a 10-12 inch, wide bodied fish like a Severum would still need a BIG tank. I've never researched the math on them but I have done the math on goldfish and for example, a single adult sized fancy goldfish (6" to 8") is equal in body mass to more than 500 1" goldfish. I would suspect a 10-12 inch fish (other than a very slim bodied fish) would have similar body mass numbers. Fish do not just grow in length. Here is the math on Goldfish. For each time a goldfish doubles it's length, it increases it's body mass by eight times so a 2" goldfish is equal to eight 1" goldfish. A 4" goldfish is equal to eight 2" goldfish or 64 1" goldfish. An 8" goldfish is equal to eight 4" goldfish, 64 2" goldfish or over 500 1" goldfish. Similar math would be applicable to a large bodied fish like a Severum. Badman's site suggests a 48" tank for starters and larger tanks for adults. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile22.html Mongabay says a 35G 36" tank is OK for fish up to 6", larger for adults. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Heros_severus.html Since these respected sites suggest 36" to 48" tanks for a 6" Severum and a 12" Severum would be equal in body mass to eight 6" Severum's, that gives you an idea of why you would need a MUCH larger tank for an adult. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) I already do partial water changes often, usually every couple of days depending on how the tank looks. I also check the PH/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels at least once a week to make sure nothing is changing too often. I have boiler water and it's not quite the same as the rest of our city water, I haven't pinpointed what it has extra in it, but I have found out that it's close to neutral PH, around 6.5. And it's also Ammonia free which is good, as I had heard that some boiler systems use extra ammonia to compensate for the old pipes. I think my Cory's had a weakened slime coat from the tank having cycling issues in the first month (they were one of the first fish I got). I plan on getting a bigger tank at some point for my living room, I have my 2 tanks in my computer room right now, but would like to have a tank for downstairs. I would love to find a 100 gallon but I doubt I will be that lucky. The fish store has an old tank sitting outside full of rainwater (it holds water obviously as it's full, lol), not sure why it has been sitting outside, but I was thinking of asking what size it is and if they might sell it. It looks like it's a 55 gallon, but hard to tell just by looking at it as I walk by and not measuring it at all. I live on an island in Alaska, so it's not the easiest to get a good deal on a fish tank, and I'd rather not have to order one from the fish store as I'm sure it would cost quite a bit with shipping and all that. I didn't know that the severum could get that big, I had read 10-12 inches when I was researching it online. I'm glad I only got one of the little guys, and the smallest that they had (he's only an inch right now). Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 5:59:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32331	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time?

Thanks Bill - good idea; I'll hit the hardware store tomorrow. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi, >   > My name is Bill and something I did years ago may help.  Get yourself over to Lowe's or Home Depot and pickup a T joint  4" PVC pipe.  Bring it home wash well and use a bit of Clorox to kill unwanted germs.  Just to be sure after you rise well some good old fashioned boiling water.  Your fish will love hiding in there and you can still see them.  After they feel comfortable they'll be out and about as usual. >   > Worked for me, >   > Bill  > > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why are my two convict cichlids hiding all the time? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 10:34 AM > > > > > > > Was about to suggest that they're missing Moe before Lenny beat me to > it, but then on further thought, they may be looking for the > companionship of Moesha (female gender) - LOL. > > Really looks like there is something about their environment which is > making them feel insecure. You'll have to determine what that might > be, possibly by process of elimination of the causative factors. At > this same time, the addition of stress-reducing elements will promote > a greater sense of security. > > Could not help but notice that this behavior has been going on for > about 3 weeks. Also noticed your saying that they are due for a > water change. By this, I might take it that you haven't given them a > partial water change for at least 3 weeks (or more?). Build-ups of > nitrates will have such a behavioral effect on fish, and noteably on > Cichlids, acting through the pores of their lateral line; it can make > them quite nervous as it builds up to higher levels. > > Often, too strong of lighting will affect fish in a manner you > describe, as Mike brings out. Try cutting down on the light > intensity of their overhead light, or keep it off completely for a > while and see how they react. If the lighting strength cannot be cut > down, add some floating plants (floating water sprite, duckweed, > etc.) to the surface to offer them more security. Rearranging the > tank WILL NOT help, although you could add more rocks or driftwood if > the tank is otherwise sparse. While driftwood can leach tannins, it > can help be cured by boiling it and adding baking soda to the pot, > after which it should be well rinsed. > > Mike also mentioned dither fish. This would be especially helpful, > at least along with floating plants, as actively moving fish such as > Rainbow Fish or Giant Danios will relieve the insecurity stress these > fish are now experiencing and will help draw them out into their > environment as they see there is no cause for them to feel insecure > (after all, the other guys are frolicking around without a care-- > LOL). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@ .> > wrote: > > > > I have two adult male convicts in a 40-gallon tank (yes, I know, not > > big enough). There's a large, artificial tree stump in which one of > > them (Curly)would take refuge from the other (Larry), who appeared > to > > be dominant. Occasionally Curly would come out and the two would do > > the challenge-lip- biting thing. I thought Larry might not be so > > aggressive if he had his own place to hide, so I set up a small > > shelter at the other end of the tank using an artificial decorative > > item and a piece of driftwood. He didn't take to it, but rather has > > retreated into the large tree stump with Curly. I have since added a > > small pleco to the tank, and now it seems that the pleco has taken > > over the driftwood shelter.(They should be used to having a pleco in > > the tank – there was a large one in it for a long time, but he > died.) > > This has been going on for about three weeks now. Occasionally, > Larry > > comes out, but soon retreats into the shelter with Curly. I can just > > barely see them, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to tell if > one > > of them is sick.I drop sinking shrimp pellets into the shelter, and > > add several floating cichlid sticks. I figure they're eating during > > the night because I don't see them during the day. Is there some way > > to encourage them to come out, or should I just not worry about it? > > They are due for a water change – while I'm at it, should I > rearrange > > the tank to see if that helps? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32332	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

LoL. No that was me saying 'So that being said...' I was just curious is all. So thanks. And Another question for you all. My current plans for the 20 gal is based on the axilotil. BUT. Should i decide to throw in a heater into the mix, not get the axi, and do a community tank...what species could i pur in there? Sorry for all the questions btw. I just want to do this right... Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It depends on what was said and by whom? There's nothing included in your reply to show who or what you are referring to. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32333	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

A 20G gives you a lot of options, especially if it's a 20G Long tank. You'd have to give us an idea of something that you are interested in, see if they are OK with your general water parameters and then go from there. Check the profile for your starting fish idea on http://fish.mongabay.com and the profile will give you their preferred water parameters, recommended minimum tank size and then has a section called "SC" which is "Suggested Companions" so then you can have a better idea of suitable tank mates. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... LoL. No that was me saying 'So that being said...' I was just curious is all. So thanks. And Another question for you all. My current plans for the 20 gal is based on the axilotil. BUT. Should i decide to throw in a heater into the mix, not get the axi, and do a community tank...what species could i pur in there? Sorry for all the questions btw. I just want to do this right... Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It depends on what was said and by whom? There's nothing included in your reply to show who or what you are referring to. > Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 7:04:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32334	From: pam andress	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bruce /Send him home

I posted about Bruce on Aquaboards and got this reply today. Try Strictly Fish in Long Beach/Lakewood. Age of Aquariums in Signal Hill. I have no idea where that is, but thought I would pass it along. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 17:34:34 -0600Subject: FW: [AquaticLife] Bruce /Send him home DevilLooksLikeAnAngel (I didn't see your real name on a recent post.. lol),I just got this email from my latest re-post on the Sacramento Craigslist.Are you near Modesto? This could be a good lead!!!Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referencedabove listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: Daniel PerezSent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:28 PMTo: comm-902505489@...: BruceYou need to call my buddy Ted at Tropical Haven in Modesto. They should havethe room for him and their tanks are well kept. It's an old school pet storethat has a bunch of huge trade in fish...209-522-4706Just tell him that Dan, they guy that owned the cookie shop told you tocall..._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008Tested on: 11/2/2008 5:34:33 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32335	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

Some Angelfish perhaps... A single bala shark... Platties Guppies Mollies Crayfish... Maybe an oscar? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > A 20G gives you a lot of options, especially if it's a 20G Long tank. > > You'd have to give us an idea of something that you are interested in, see > if they are OK with your general water parameters and then go from there.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32336	From: grammy1086	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)

I must be honest, I joined group a couple of days ago. I like to sit back and watch to get a sense of "atmosphere". Must say; the ZD thing had me wary. I have 3 tanks, A 10gal. that houses 1 albino frog. A 55gal. that houses a pink convict, jack dempsey, 2 julii coryd's, 1 panda cory, 1 albino cory, 1 rainbow shark, 1 black fin shark, and 2 very old gold gouramis. I know I'm going to get beat up for this one, a 29 gal reef, (this tank used to be the tropical) found the 55g. complete for $75.00 couldn't pass it up! After transfering the trops into the 55g. I decided to do a reef (had a 20 gal fish only for 5 or 6 years doing great until the tornados hit our area, lost power for days, all was lost). Reef is about 6mo. old. Home to 2 clown fish, 2 yellow tail damsels, 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 halloween crab, 2 tiny blue knuckle crabs, 2 tiny snails (turbo). There are also 2 small zoanthid colonies, 1 3.5 in. brain coral, 2 dwarf feather duster worms, 1 med size mushroom colony (rhodactis) very small glove polyps colony, 1 med size tree coral. My ammonia is 0ppm, nitites 0ppm, ph is 8.2, calcium is 400, salinity is 1.024. My nitrates are always 10 to 15 ppm.even after water changes (I do this regularly, same day, roughly 6gals every week.) What am I doing wrong? What other info do you need? Thank you for any help you can give. Ps. Yes, I am looking for a 75gal. at least for the Reef. Ilive in central n.y. (any out there)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32337	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Dang Bill... too bad you don't live in Sacramento

Bill, I was looking at my Bruce The Eel ad in the Sacramento Craigslist and saw this ad for a 135G tank for only $50.00. <http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pet/902725828.html> http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pet/902725828.html Just posted today so if any other group members in the Sacramento area, jump on this super-bargain! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 7:52:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

Angelfish (8" and very tall), Bala Shark (16") and Oscar (14") all get much too large for a 20G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... Some Angelfish perhaps... A single bala shark... Platties Guppies Mollies Crayfish... Maybe an oscar? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > A 20G gives you a lot of options, especially if it's a 20G Long tank. > > You'd have to give us an idea of something that you are interested in, see > if they are OK with your general water parameters and then go from there. Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 7:59:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32339	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

Alright. LoL So give me a heads up here... For a 20gal freshwater, there has to be something... What about all the guppies, platties, mollies and various tetras? um...clown loaches? plecos? Barbs? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Angelfish (8" and very tall), Bala Shark (16") and Oscar (14") all get much > too large for a 20G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

The livebearers (guppies, platties, mollies) would be fine as long as you don't try to save too many or any of the constant barrage of fry. Many tetras would work but not all... some get pretty big. Clown loaches (12"+ and groups of three to five so a BIG tank is needed). Common pleco's (18"+) but there are a few dwarf species that only grow to 4" to 6" and one of those would be OK in a 20G. A better option that would be less of a bioload would be a shoal of otocinclus, instead of just one of the dwarf plecos. Another option is to set it up with your LFS to let you trade in a common pleco every 6-12 months so you could get a common and trade him in whenever he gets to 4-5" and start off with a new juvi and some store credit since you should get more for the trade in on a 4-5" than the cost of a new juvi. I recently got $25.00 in store credit for a 10" common pleco that I had to trade in since he was getting too big for my 65G and Hurricane Katrina changed my plans for a pair of 6' tanks that I was planning. If I was going to do a community 20G, I'd probably stick to fish that stay under 3" in length and then use the "one gallon per adult sized inch" as a stocking guideline, which only works for fish that are not expected to grow to over 3". If I were going to have algae eating catfish in a 20G, the 4" to 6" dwarf pleco would count as 8 gallons to 12 gallons of the stocking capacity where the shoal of otos would only count at the 1 gallon per inch or 5-6 gallons of stocking capacity. The "trade-in common pleco" would only count in the 1 gallon per inch as long as you trade them in before they get too big. A good list of community fish that stay under 3" as adults can be found on my blog article, "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions", and then you could have larger schools of schooling fish or maybe two regular schools of two types of schooling fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... Alright. LoL So give me a heads up here... For a 20gal freshwater, there has to be something... What about all the guppies, platties, mollies and various tetras? um...clown loaches? plecos? Barbs? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Angelfish (8" and very tall), Bala Shark (16") and Oscar (14") all get much > too large for a 20G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 8:52:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32341	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

I agree with Lenny. You're just setting yourself up for disaster! My best advice would be to stick with simple comunity fish the Mollies and platies and smaller tetra. Not only can you put more fish but they have some great colors and tons of varietys! Just remember 1 inch of fish per gallon and with goldfish 1 inch of fish per 2 gallon. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:59:39 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... Angelfish (8" and very tall), Bala Shark (16") and Oscar (14") all get much too large for a 20G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... Some Angelfish perhaps... A single bala shark... Platties Guppies Mollies Crayfish... Maybe an oscar? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > A 20G gives you a lot of options, especially if it's a 20G Long tank. > > You'd have to give us an idea of something that you are interested in, see > if they are OK with your general water parameters and then go from there. Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 7:59:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32342	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work

The local creek overrunneth with light fixtures. ;) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work But the bigger question would be... is that NOW a non-native, invasive light fixture? It certainly didn't come from the tank and doesn't belong in the tank so I think it fits the parameters.. or does there need to be more evidence or more than one... although I've read reports of this NIS (Non-native Invasive Species) light fixture invading other tanks in the past? I'll call this previously unclassified species the Lightus fixturei. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work Generally, it is less expensive, in actual dollars, plus your time, to replace the fixture than to try to fix it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work My light fell into the aquarium and shorted out, I guess - it won't work. The flourescent bulb does work in a different light fixture. The fixture is not still full of water. Other things plugged into the same power strip are working. It does look like there may be a ballast or something under the light fixture itself. What do I need to do - replace that ballast? It's a 15 watt Petsmart fixture for the 20 gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 10:32:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 12:56:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32343	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

If you do a pleco I would only get a rubber lipped but the best kind of algae eater for a community tank would be an otocinclous or however its soelt. They stay more active in groups. Clown loaches? I wouldn't I've seen them almost a foot long. If you're wanting a catfish I think a pair of Cory cats would be best. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:22:05 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... Alright. LoL So give me a heads up here... For a 20gal freshwater, there has to be something... What about all the guppies, platties, mollies and various tetras? um...clown loaches? plecos? Barbs? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Angelfish (8" and very tall), Bala Shark (16") and Oscar (14") all get much > too large for a 20G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32344	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: My light fell in the aquarium and won't work

Dora   Don't you have anything better to do????   Get a life!!!!!!!!   John in Nevada --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 7:06 PM The local creek overrunneth with light fixtures. ;) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work But the bigger question would be... is that NOW a non-native, invasive light fixture? It certainly didn't come from the tank and doesn't belong in the tank so I think it fits the parameters.. or does there need to be more evidence or more than one... although I've read reports of this NIS (Non-native Invasive Species) light fixture invading other tanks in the past? I'll call this previously unclassified species the Lightus fixturei. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:31 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work Generally, it is less expensive, in actual dollars, plus your time, to replace the fixture than to try to fix it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My light fell in the aquarium and won't work My light fell into the aquarium and shorted out, I guess - it won't work. The flourescent bulb does work in a different light fixture. The fixture is not still full of water. Other things plugged into the same power strip are working. It does look like there may be a ballast or something under the light fixture itself. What do I need to do - replace that ballast? It's a 15 watt Petsmart fixture for the 20 gallon tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 10:32:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081101-0, 11/01/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 12:56:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32345	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

Cool. Thanks guys again for all your help. It's great!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32346	From: User &	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

I agree that you are adding way too many fish to the tank, unless you wish to have the oscar to eat everything else. And trust me, the oscar will eat everything in the tank, probably starting with the guppies, then the mollies, angelfish, He would probably leave the shark alone due to it's speed. For your first tank go with livebearers or just angels. On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 02:51:44 +0000, allie1068 wrote > I agree with Lenny. You're just setting yourself up for disaster! My > best advice would be to stick with simple comunity fish the Mollies > and platies and smaller tetra. Not only can you put more fish but > they have some great colors and tons of varietys! Just remember 1 > inch of fish per gallon and with goldfish 1 inch of fish per 2 > gallon. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:59:39 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... > > Angelfish (8" and very tall), Bala Shark (16") and Oscar (14") all > get much too large for a 20G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, > November 02, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: > [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... > > Some Angelfish perhaps... > A single bala shark... > Platties > Guppies > Mollies > Crayfish... > Maybe an oscar? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > A 20G gives you a lot of options, especially if it's a 20G Long tank. > > > > You'd have to give us an idea of something that you are interested > in, see > > if they are OK with your general water parameters and then go from > there. > > Messages in this topic > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 > Tested on: 11/2/2008 7:59:39 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32347	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

I would do angels in that small of a tank! Their fins get way too tall for that tank you would need at least a 40 to 55 if you want your fish to have good life quality! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "User &" <henrypuryear@...> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:21:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... I agree that you are adding way too many fish to the tank, unless you wish to have the oscar to eat everything else. And trust me, the oscar will eat everything in the tank, probably starting with the guppies, then the mollies, angelfish, He would probably leave the shark alone due to it's speed. For your first tank go with livebearers or just angels. On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 02:51:44 +0000, allie1068 wrote > I agree with Lenny. You're just setting yourself up for disaster! My > best advice would be to stick with simple comunity fish the Mollies > and platies and smaller tetra. Not only can you put more fish but > they have some great colors and tons of varietys! Just remember 1 > inch of fish per gallon and with goldfish 1 inch of fish per 2 > gallon. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:59:39 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... > > Angelfish (8" and very tall), Bala Shark (16") and Oscar (14") all > get much too large for a 20G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, > November 02, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: > [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... > > Some Angelfish perhaps... > A single bala shark... > Platties > Guppies > Mollies > Crayfish... > Maybe an oscar? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > A 20G gives you a lot of options, especially if it's a 20G Long tank. > > > > You'd have to give us an idea of something that you are interested > in, see > > if they are OK with your general water parameters and then go from > there. > > Messages in this topic > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 > Tested on: 11/2/2008 7:59:39 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32348	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

I think Allie meant "wouldn't", not "would". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... I would do angels in that small of a tank! Their fins get way too tall for that tank you would need at least a 40 to 55 if you want your fish to have good life quality! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "User &" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:21:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... I agree that you are adding way too many fish to the tank, unless you wish to have the oscar to eat everything else. And trust me, the oscar will eat everything in the tank, probably starting with the guppies, then the mollies, angelfish, He would probably leave the shark alone due to it's speed. For your first tank go with livebearers or just angels. On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 02:51:44 +0000, allie1068 wrote > I agree with Lenny. You're just setting yourself up for disaster! My > best advice would be to stick with simple comunity fish the Mollies > and platies and smaller tetra. Not only can you put more fish but they > have some great colors and tons of varietys! Just remember 1 inch of > fish per gallon and with goldfish 1 inch of fish per 2 gallon. Sent > via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:59:39 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... > > Angelfish (8" and very tall), Bala Shark (16") and Oscar (14") all get > much too large for a 20G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: > [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... > > Some Angelfish perhaps... > A single bala shark... > Platties > Guppies > Mollies > Crayfish... > Maybe an oscar? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > A 20G gives you a lot of options, especially if it's a 20G Long tank. > > > > You'd have to give us an idea of something that you are interested > in, see > > if they are OK with your general water parameters and then go from > there. > > Messages in this topic > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 > 7:59:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 9:41:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 9:44:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32349	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

Yes thank you. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 21:44:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... I think Allie meant "wouldn't", not "would". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... I would do angels in that small of a tank! Their fins get way too tall for that tank you would need at least a 40 to 55 if you want your fish to have good life quality! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "User &" <henrypuryear@... <mailto:henrypuryear%40pure.net> > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:21:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... I agree that you are adding way too many fish to the tank, unless you wish to have the oscar to eat everything else. And trust me, the oscar will eat everything in the tank, probably starting with the guppies, then the mollies, angelfish, He would probably leave the shark alone due to it's speed. For your first tank go with livebearers or just angels. On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 02:51:44 +0000, allie1068 wrote > I agree with Lenny. You're just setting yourself up for disaster! My > best advice would be to stick with simple comunity fish the Mollies > and platies and smaller tetra. Not only can you put more fish but they > have some great colors and tons of varietys! Just remember 1 inch of > fish per gallon and with goldfish 1 inch of fish per 2 gallon. Sent > via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:59:39 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... > > Angelfish (8" and very tall), Bala Shark (16") and Oscar (14") all get > much too large for a 20G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: > [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... > > Some Angelfish perhaps... > A single bala shark... > Platties > Guppies > Mollies > Crayfish... > Maybe an oscar? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > A 20G gives you a lot of options, especially if it's a 20G Long tank. > > > > You'd have to give us an idea of something that you are interested > in, see > > if they are OK with your general water parameters and then go from > there. > > Messages in this topic > >_____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 > 7:59:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 9:41:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 9:44:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32350	From: Lisa	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

I didn't say I was going to add ALL of them. It was going to be a single species tank. So either; Mollies Or Guppies Or Platties etc Sorry for not making that clear. LoL LOL

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32351	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Bruce /Send him home

Long Beach is In Southern California, worth a shot if they would come up North to pick him up. I posted about Bruce on Aquaboards and got this reply today. Try Strictly Fish in Long Beach/Lakewood. Age of Aquariums in Signal Hill. I have no idea where that is, but thought I would pass it along. Pam -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 5:23 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bruce /Send him home I posted about Bruce on Aquaboards and got this reply today. Try Strictly Fish in Long Beach/Lakewood. Age of Aquariums in Signal Hill. I have no idea where that is, but thought I would pass it along. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 17:34:34 -0600Subject: FW: [AquaticLife] Bruce /Send him home DevilLooksLikeAnAngel (I didn't see your real name on a recent post.. lol),I just got this email from my latest re-post on the Sacramento Craigslist.Are you near Modesto? This could be a good lead!!!Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referencedabove listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: Daniel PerezSent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:28 PMTo: comm-902505489@...: BruceYou need to call my buddy Ted at Tropical Haven in Modesto. They should havethe room for him and their tanks are well kept. It's an old school pet storethat has a bunch of huge trade in fish...209-522-4706Just tell him that Dan, they guy that owned the cookie shop told you tocall..._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008Tested on: 11/2/2008 5:34:33 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32352	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

They do better in larger groups. I only buy them in groups of 5 or more. -Mike If you're wanting a catfish I think a pair of Cory cats would be best. -----Original Message----- From: allie1068@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 6:56 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... If you do a pleco I would only get a rubber lipped but the best kind of algae eater for a community tank would be an otocinclous or however its soelt. They stay more active in groups. Clown loaches? I wouldn't I've seen them almost a foot long. If you're wanting a catfish I think a pair of Cory cats would be best. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:22:05 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... Alright. LoL So give me a heads up here... For a 20gal freshwater, there has to be something... What about all the guppies, platties, mollies and various tetras? um...clown loaches? plecos? Barbs? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Angelfish (8" and very tall), Bala Shark (16") and Oscar (14") all get much > too large for a 20G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32353	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

I believe that the one most commonly used in aquaria is Clinoptilolite, but there are several that will pull ammonia ions out of the water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite So \\Steve//, Did you type that list or a copy/paste? LOL I think the only zeolite I've ever seen in the various pet stores and LFS I've been too have been the kind that are used for sucking up ammonia. Do you know which of the below list is the one? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Please do keep in mind that zeolite is, more or less, a generic term. There are a number of materials out there that can remove various substances we do not want in our tanks. You were using the kind that pulls the ammonia out, which is not really desirable in fish environments since we would rather establish a biological cycle to do this for us as it will create a more stable environment for the fish. Even small amounts of ammonia can be toxic to fish over the long term, and for some fish, the short term. Here is a list of the various minerals that are zeolites: * Amicite * Analcime * Barrerite * Bellbergite * Bikitaite * Boggsite * Brewsterite * Chabazite * Clinoptilolite * Cowlesite * Dachiardite * Edingtonite * Epistilbite * Erionite * Faujasite * Ferrierite * Garronite * Gismondine * Gmelinite * Gobbinsite * Gonnardite * Goosecreekite * Harmotome * Herschelite * Heulandite * Laumontite * Levyne * Maricopaite * Mazzite * Merlinoite * Mesolite * Montesommaite * Mordenite * Natrolite * Offretite * Paranatrolite * Paulingite * Pentasil * Perlialite * Phillipsite * Pollucite * Scolecite * Sodium Dachiardite * Stellerite * Stilbite * Tetranatrolite * Thomsonite * Tschernichite * Wairakite * Wellsite * Willhendersonite * Yugawaralite \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of skyak52 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/zeolite systems so I though "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had any trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of mind-blowing. My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these sorts of problems before. My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two albino cats were with him. so I don't know. Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32354	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)

Have you tested your water out of the tap? This may be your source of nitrates. Suggested is to draw a sample, test immediately out of the tap, let the water sit and test again 24 hours later. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grammy1086 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) I must be honest, I joined group a couple of days ago. I like to sit back and watch to get a sense of "atmosphere". Must say; the ZD thing had me wary. I have 3 tanks, A 10gal. that houses 1 albino frog. A 55gal. that houses a pink convict, jack dempsey, 2 julii coryd's, 1 panda cory, 1 albino cory, 1 rainbow shark, 1 black fin shark, and 2 very old gold gouramis. I know I'm going to get beat up for this one, a 29 gal reef, (this tank used to be the tropical) found the 55g. complete for $75.00 couldn't pass it up! After transfering the trops into the 55g. I decided to do a reef (had a 20 gal fish only for 5 or 6 years doing great until the tornados hit our area, lost power for days, all was lost). Reef is about 6mo. old. Home to 2 clown fish, 2 yellow tail damsels, 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 halloween crab, 2 tiny blue knuckle crabs, 2 tiny snails (turbo). There are also 2 small zoanthid colonies, 1 3.5 in. brain coral, 2 dwarf feather duster worms, 1 med size mushroom colony (rhodactis) very small glove polyps colony, 1 med size tree coral. My ammonia is 0ppm, nitites 0ppm, ph is 8.2, calcium is 400, salinity is 1.024. My nitrates are always 10 to 15 ppm.even after water changes (I do this regularly, same day, roughly 6gals every week.) What am I doing wrong? What other info do you need? Thank you for any help you can give. Ps. Yes, I am looking for a 75gal. at least for the Reef. Ilive in central n.y. (any out there)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32355	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

Well, there's lot of other options besides them three livebearers. check out the list of suitable fish for a 10G on my blog and but you could double the numbers of each fish over what is suggested for a 10G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... I didn't say I was going to add ALL of them. It was going to be a single species tank. So either; Mollies Or Guppies Or Platties.etc Sorry for not making that clear. LoL LOL _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 3:20:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

Well, in that case, I'll stick to using the generic term Zeolite which is easier to remember. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite I believe that the one most commonly used in aquaria is Clinoptilolite, but there are several that will pull ammonia ions out of the water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite So \\Steve//, Did you type that list or a copy/paste? LOL I think the only zeolite I've ever seen in the various pet stores and LFS I've been too have been the kind that are used for sucking up ammonia. Do you know which of the below list is the one? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Please do keep in mind that zeolite is, more or less, a generic term. There are a number of materials out there that can remove various substances we do not want in our tanks. You were using the kind that pulls the ammonia out, which is not really desirable in fish environments since we would rather establish a biological cycle to do this for us as it will create a more stable environment for the fish. Even small amounts of ammonia can be toxic to fish over the long term, and for some fish, the short term. Here is a list of the various minerals that are zeolites: * Amicite * Analcime * Barrerite * Bellbergite * Bikitaite * Boggsite * Brewsterite * Chabazite * Clinoptilolite * Cowlesite * Dachiardite * Edingtonite * Epistilbite * Erionite * Faujasite * Ferrierite * Garronite * Gismondine * Gmelinite * Gobbinsite * Gonnardite * Goosecreekite * Harmotome * Herschelite * Heulandite * Laumontite * Levyne * Maricopaite * Mazzite * Merlinoite * Mesolite * Montesommaite * Mordenite * Natrolite * Offretite * Paranatrolite * Paulingite * Pentasil * Perlialite * Phillipsite * Pollucite * Scolecite * Sodium Dachiardite * Stellerite * Stilbite * Tetranatrolite * Thomsonite * Tschernichite * Wairakite * Wellsite * Willhendersonite * Yugawaralite \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of skyak52 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/zeolite systems so I though "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had any trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of mind-blowing. My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these sorts of problems before. My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two albino cats were with him. so I don't know. Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 3:22:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32357	From: grammy1086	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Have you tested your water out of the tap? This may be your source of > nitrates. Suggested is to draw a sample, test immediately out of the > tap, let the water sit and test again 24 hours later. > > \\Steve// > > Good Morning! The water from tap is 0ppm. I have a sample waiting for tomorrow moning.We'll see. I have tested PH from tap (we have spring water) it is always higher in the winter mo.(off the charts higher). > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of grammy1086 > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > I must be honest, I joined group a couple of days ago. I like to sit > back and watch to get a sense of "atmosphere". Must say; the ZD thing > had me wary. I have 3 tanks, A 10gal. that houses 1 albino frog. A > 55gal. that houses a pink convict, jack dempsey, 2 julii coryd's, 1 > panda cory, 1 albino cory, 1 rainbow shark, 1 black fin shark, and 2 > very old gold gouramis. I know I'm going to get beat up for this one, > a 29 gal reef, (this tank used to be the tropical) found the 55g. > complete for $75.00 couldn't pass it up! After transfering the trops > into the 55g. I decided to do a reef (had a 20 gal fish only for 5 or > 6 years doing great until the tornados hit our area, lost power for > days, all was lost). Reef is about 6mo. old. Home to 2 clown fish, 2 > yellow tail damsels, 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 halloween crab, 2 tiny > blue knuckle crabs, 2 tiny snails (turbo). There are also 2 small > zoanthid colonies, 1 3.5 in. brain coral, 2 dwarf feather duster > worms, 1 med size mushroom colony (rhodactis) very small glove polyps > colony, 1 med size tree coral. My ammonia is 0ppm, nitites 0ppm, ph > is 8.2, calcium is 400, salinity is 1.024. My nitrates are always 10 > to 15 ppm.even after water changes (I do this regularly, same day, > roughly 6gals every week.) What am I doing wrong? What other info do > you need? Thank you for any help you can give. > > > Ps. Yes, I am looking for a 75gal. at least for the Reef. Ilive in > central n.y. (any out there) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)

It would be interesting if you'd keep a chart of your tap water baseline tests. I'm wondering if your pH goes up in the winter due to a lower CO2 level in the water due to the cooler water temps. You should track your tap water on the 1) out-the-tap, 2) 24 hours, 3) 48 hours test once a month for a year and see how much more the water chemistry/parameters might change. The basic tests like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH, temperature, CO2 (can be figured out using the pH, KH and temp). When you say pH is off the charts, how high is it? Is it off the charts out the tap and does it stay that high on the 48 hour baseline test? My pH, KH and GH gets higher during the summer months down here in the New Orleans. I haven't checked with my public utility to see if they raise the buffering levels during the summer months since the warmer water would be more likely to have a higher CO2 level, thus possibly making it acidic, or if the warmer water is causing calcium/mineral buildup inside the pipes to leech into the flowing water. There is a big difference in temperature between the tap water in the summer to winter... around 20F difference... and that's always something to know as well so you don't refill a tank with very cold water, after a PWC during the winter which might lower the tank temp quite a bit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grammy1086 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Have you tested your water out of the tap? This may be your source of > nitrates. Suggested is to draw a sample, test immediately out of the > tap, let the water sit and test again 24 hours later. > > \\Steve// > > Good Morning! The water from tap is 0ppm. I have a sample waiting for tomorrow moning.We'll see. I have tested PH from tap (we have spring water) it is always higher in the winter mo.(off the charts higher). > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of grammy1086 > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > I must be honest, I joined group a couple of days ago. I like to sit > back and watch to get a sense of "atmosphere". Must say; the ZD thing > had me wary. I have 3 tanks, A 10gal. that houses 1 albino frog. A > 55gal. that houses a pink convict, jack dempsey, 2 julii coryd's, 1 > panda cory, 1 albino cory, 1 rainbow shark, 1 black fin shark, and 2 > very old gold gouramis. I know I'm going to get beat up for this one, > a 29 gal reef, (this tank used to be the tropical) found the 55g. > complete for $75.00 couldn't pass it up! After transfering the trops > into the 55g. I decided to do a reef (had a 20 gal fish only for 5 or > 6 years doing great until the tornados hit our area, lost power for > days, all was lost). Reef is about 6mo. old. Home to 2 clown fish, 2 > yellow tail damsels, 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 halloween crab, 2 tiny > blue knuckle crabs, 2 tiny snails (turbo). There are also 2 small > zoanthid colonies, 1 3.5 in. brain coral, 2 dwarf feather duster > worms, 1 med size mushroom colony (rhodactis) very small glove polyps > colony, 1 med size tree coral. My ammonia is 0ppm, nitites 0ppm, ph is > 8.2, calcium is 400, salinity is 1.024. My nitrates are always 10 > to 15 ppm.even after water changes (I do this regularly, same day, > roughly 6gals every week.) What am I doing wrong? What other info do > you need? Thank you for any help you can give. > > > Ps. Yes, I am looking for a 75gal. at least for the Reef. Ilive in > central n.y. (any out there) > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 3:26:24 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 3:37:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32359	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

I got home and browsed through my 'aquarium models' by John Tullock, book and found one i like.   Its for a 20gal set up. (But i'm getting a 22 gal)   It's a butterfly cichlid tank and includes;   1 male 1 female Microgeophagus ramirezi 5 - 7 small tetras and 2 corydora paleatus   It will have sword plants and Java moss (Fake if i can find them...) Driftwood smooth rocks A black background Sand substrate and an u/g or hang on filter (I'll discuss the better option with my LFS)   And yes i will add a heater.   So tomorrow (Tuesday) I will get the ball rolling and order the damn thing once and for all. LoL   Lisa   Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32360	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Decision made...

If your tank has the same footprint as a 20G Long tank, 30" x 12", you could use some of the cookie-cutter setups on this page as a guide also. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_20g.php Here is what they recommend for a pair of Ram's: . Microgeophagus ramirezi - 1 pair . Hemigrammus bleheri "Rummy Nose" - 6 . Inpaichthys kerri "Blue Emperor" - 4 Don't forget to Fishless Cycle (using plain ammonia) or use Dr. Tim's One And Only! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Decision made... I got home and browsed through my 'aquarium models' by John Tullock, book and found one i like. Its for a 20gal set up. (But i'm getting a 22 gal) It's a butterfly cichlid tank and includes; 1 male 1 female Microgeophagus ramirezi 5 - 7 small tetras and 2 corydora paleatus It will have sword plants and Java moss (Fake if i can find them...) Driftwood smooth rocks A black background Sand substrate and an u/g or hang on filter (I'll discuss the better option with my LFS) And yes i will add a heater. So tomorrow (Tuesday) I will get the ball rolling and order the damn thing once and for all. LoL Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 4:35:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32361	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Help me choose - vote on name!

In a message dated 11/2/2008 11:25:19 A.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Oooops.. forgot some other infamous outlaws like Jesse James, "Pretty Boy" Floyd, "Baby Face" Nelson. Lenny Vasbinder Add to that list John Dilinger....and yes, I have had tom cats with all of those names at one time or another.... Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32362	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)

If she is using a municipal water supply, they probably change sources during the fall, which may account for the pH difference. If she looks at her water supply report, which should be available online, if it was missed in the mail, the report would list the sources of the water and the policies for using one over the other. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) It would be interesting if you'd keep a chart of your tap water baseline tests. I'm wondering if your pH goes up in the winter due to a lower CO2 level in the water due to the cooler water temps. You should track your tap water on the 1) out-the-tap, 2) 24 hours, 3) 48 hours test once a month for a year and see how much more the water chemistry/parameters might change. The basic tests like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH, temperature, CO2 (can be figured out using the pH, KH and temp). When you say pH is off the charts, how high is it? Is it off the charts out the tap and does it stay that high on the 48 hour baseline test? My pH, KH and GH gets higher during the summer months down here in the New Orleans. I haven't checked with my public utility to see if they raise the buffering levels during the summer months since the warmer water would be more likely to have a higher CO2 level, thus possibly making it acidic, or if the warmer water is causing calcium/mineral buildup inside the pipes to leech into the flowing water. There is a big difference in temperature between the tap water in the summer to winter... around 20F difference... and that's always something to know as well so you don't refill a tank with very cold water, after a PWC during the winter which might lower the tank temp quite a bit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grammy1086 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Have you tested your water out of the tap? This may be your source of > nitrates. Suggested is to draw a sample, test immediately out of the > tap, let the water sit and test again 24 hours later. > > \\Steve// > > Good Morning! The water from tap is 0ppm. I have a sample waiting for tomorrow moning.We'll see. I have tested PH from tap (we have spring water) it is always higher in the winter mo.(off the charts higher). > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of grammy1086 > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > I must be honest, I joined group a couple of days ago. I like to sit > back and watch to get a sense of "atmosphere". Must say; the ZD thing > had me wary. I have 3 tanks, A 10gal. that houses 1 albino frog. A > 55gal. that houses a pink convict, jack dempsey, 2 julii coryd's, 1 > panda cory, 1 albino cory, 1 rainbow shark, 1 black fin shark, and 2 > very old gold gouramis. I know I'm going to get beat up for this one, > a 29 gal reef, (this tank used to be the tropical) found the 55g. > complete for $75.00 couldn't pass it up! After transfering the trops > into the 55g. I decided to do a reef (had a 20 gal fish only for 5 or > 6 years doing great until the tornados hit our area, lost power for > days, all was lost). Reef is about 6mo. old. Home to 2 clown fish, 2 > yellow tail damsels, 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 halloween crab, 2 tiny > blue knuckle crabs, 2 tiny snails (turbo). There are also 2 small > zoanthid colonies, 1 3.5 in. brain coral, 2 dwarf feather duster > worms, 1 med size mushroom colony (rhodactis) very small glove polyps > colony, 1 med size tree coral. My ammonia is 0ppm, nitites 0ppm, ph is > 8.2, calcium is 400, salinity is 1.024. My nitrates are always 10 > to 15 ppm.even after water changes (I do this regularly, same day, > roughly 6gals every week.) What am I doing wrong? What other info do > you need? Thank you for any help you can give. > > > Ps. Yes, I am looking for a 75gal. at least for the Reef. Ilive in > central n.y. (any out there) > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 3:26:24 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 3:37:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32363	From: bill1433	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

Hi,   My son purchased this sometime ago.  Is this product along the same lines?  And the "age old question"?  Does it really work? Called:   Pro-V and it's marketed by Penn-Plax   Bill --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 6:33 PM So \\Steve//, Did you type that list or a copy/paste? LOL I think the only zeolite I've ever seen in the various pet stores and LFS I've been too have been the kind that are used for sucking up ammonia. Do you know which of the below list is the one? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Please do keep in mind that zeolite is, more or less, a generic term. There are a number of materials out there that can remove various substances we do not want in our tanks. You were using the kind that pulls the ammonia out, which is not really desirable in fish environments since we would rather establish a biological cycle to do this for us as it will create a more stable environment for the fish. Even small amounts of ammonia can be toxic to fish over the long term, and for some fish, the short term. Here is a list of the various minerals that are zeolites: * Amicite * Analcime * Barrerite * Bellbergite * Bikitaite * Boggsite * Brewsterite * Chabazite * Clinoptilolite * Cowlesite * Dachiardite * Edingtonite * Epistilbite * Erionite * Faujasite * Ferrierite * Garronite * Gismondine * Gmelinite * Gobbinsite * Gonnardite * Goosecreekite * Harmotome * Herschelite * Heulandite * Laumontite * Levyne * Maricopaite * Mazzite * Merlinoite * Mesolite * Montesommaite * Mordenite * Natrolite * Offretite * Paranatrolite * Paulingite * Pentasil * Perlialite * Phillipsite * Pollucite * Scolecite * Sodium Dachiardite * Stellerite * Stilbite * Tetranatrolite * Thomsonite * Tschernichite * Wairakite * Wellsite * Willhendersonite * Yugawaralite \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of skyak52 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/ zeolite systems so I though "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had any trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of mind-blowing. My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these sorts of problems before. My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two albino cats were with him. so I don't know. Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak. ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 4:46:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/2/2008 5:33:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32364	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Frusterated :(

Thanks everyone for your advice on what to do with the nasty tank and convict cichlid I "rescued". There is no way at all though I can do hourly water changes. And the reason I couldnt clean the gravel the day I got it was that I needed to get the fish out of the bag I lugged him home in and into the tank. Believe me, I did as much as I could to make it liveable in the time I had. It is disgusting now and now it is 100% better than it was. I am just so frusterated because I feel like I am climbing this huge up-hill mountain and making only an inch of progress at a time. Plus, it is set up in my room becuase it was way to heavy - even without water - to be carried up 3 flights of stairs. I am actually begining to wish I never took this on. I am getting no joy out of this tank at all, I am doing it only because I feel obligated to save this poor fishes life. I needed this tank for my current goldfish, not for an agressive species I had no intention of having to begin with. I am just venting, sorry guys. I just feel like pulling my hair out right now becuase this tank is so nasty and I feel overwhelmed by it. I just want to scream! AAAAHHHH! Blessings Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

Yep. http://www.pennplax.com/Pages/Aqua.pages..../Aqua26F.html A third of the way down the page. It's probably only the whitish colored "chips" that are the actual Zeolite and the problem with this product is that how do you remove the Zeolite to recharge it? After a while, it's going to become saturate with ammonia and quit working. With the kind used for emergencies in a filter system, after a couple of days, you could remove the Zeolite package and recharge it by soaking the package in a cup of very salty water for a couple of hours and then reuse it as necessary. Unless they are thinking of this as just for when the Betta Bowl/Vase (not recommended) is new and maybe the Zeolite will help with sucking up ammonia during the initial setup and cycling (also not recommended). The other problem with this product is that normally Zeolite is used in a filter system like carbon so that all of the water passes over the Zeolite to give it a better chance of working. With it sitting down on the bottom, all of the ammonia in the water column won't even touch the Zeolite so it wouldn't be able to suck up that ammonia anyhow. Just another crappy product sold to unsuspecting fish keepers... further reinforcing my statement that 95% of the stuff they try to sell people is NOT needed 95% of the time. I might even have to up those numbers to 99% as I come across more and more crappy stuff being pushed on fish keepers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi, My son purchased this sometime ago. Is this product along the same lines? And the "age old question"? Does it really work? Called: Pro-V and it's marketed by Penn-Plax Bill --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 6:33 PM So \\Steve//, Did you type that list or a copy/paste? LOL I think the only zeolite I've ever seen in the various pet stores and LFS I've been too have been the kind that are used for sucking up ammonia. Do you know which of the below list is the one? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Please do keep in mind that zeolite is, more or less, a generic term. There are a number of materials out there that can remove various substances we do not want in our tanks. You were using the kind that pulls the ammonia out, which is not really desirable in fish environments since we would rather establish a biological cycle to do this for us as it will create a more stable environment for the fish. Even small amounts of ammonia can be toxic to fish over the long term, and for some fish, the short term. Here is a list of the various minerals that are zeolites: * Amicite * Analcime * Barrerite * Bellbergite * Bikitaite * Boggsite * Brewsterite * Chabazite * Clinoptilolite * Cowlesite * Dachiardite * Edingtonite * Epistilbite * Erionite * Faujasite * Ferrierite * Garronite * Gismondine * Gmelinite * Gobbinsite * Gonnardite * Goosecreekite * Harmotome * Herschelite * Heulandite * Laumontite * Levyne * Maricopaite * Mazzite * Merlinoite * Mesolite * Montesommaite * Mordenite * Natrolite * Offretite * Paranatrolite * Paulingite * Pentasil * Perlialite * Phillipsite * Pollucite * Scolecite * Sodium Dachiardite * Stellerite * Stilbite * Tetranatrolite * Thomsonite * Tschernichite * Wairakite * Wellsite * Willhendersonite * Yugawaralite \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of skyak52 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/ zeolite systems so I though "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had any trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of mind-blowing. My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these sorts of problems before. My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two albino cats were with him. so I don't know. Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 9:59:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32366	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Frusterated :(

Yep. I know the feeling. I rescued a severely overstocked 10G tank from a local teenage girl back in the summer of 2005. It had been set up for two years and it came with a common pleco, two Opaline/Blue Gouramis, three Zebra Danios (OH NO.. I said Zebra Danio.. lol), three Albino Buenos Aires Tetras... overall, over a hundred gallons worth of fish shoved into a 10G tank and that's after half of the schools of ZD's and Tetras had already died. Most of the fish were sick and after setting up two more tanks, moved the fish around until I had the bioload spread out between 95G of tanks... still slightly overstocked but far better off than they were. All of these fish survived the two weeks of no power after Hurricane Katrina and lived out reasonable life spans although all of them were stunted and had regular health problems. The gouramis never got more than 3" (where they should have gotten to 5-6") if in a proper sized tank from the start. The Common Pleco lived in my 65G goldfish tank for a couple of years and grew to 10" (he was only 4" in the 10G) but I eventually had to trade him in since he was too big for my 65G and was starting to bother the goldfish with him being mostly nocturnal and blind.. lol.. he would be swimming around and inadvertently bump into the goldfish while they were trying to sleep and it started stressing them out too much. I had planned on two 6' tanks on one wall of my home, one for the goldfish and one for tropical's but Hurricane Katrina changed all of those plans. Anyhow... it sounds like you're over the hump and once you are sure the convict is healthy, you can trade him in at your LFS for a little store credit and then do what you want with the tank. Remember to get a 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia to feed the biofilter of the tank if you trade in the convict and do not have your new fish already in quarantine. You don't want your nitrifying bacteria to die off in an empty tank. One last note... while I do not normally recommend using medications without a diagnosis, I do treat new fish with PraziPro (from Hikari) which is a mild but very effective treatment for many internal and external parasites, gill flukes, etc. I don't think it will handle Ich although it might. I've never researched it. That and a 3-7 day treatment of Melafix and I find it gives new fish a better chance since so many of them do come with various parasites and bacterial problems. Do this while the fish are in quarantine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Frusterated :( Thanks everyone for your advice on what to do with the nasty tank and convict cichlid I "rescued". There is no way at all though I can do hourly water changes. And the reason I couldnt clean the gravel the day I got it was that I needed to get the fish out of the bag I lugged him home in and into the tank. Believe me, I did as much as I could to make it liveable in the time I had. It is disgusting now and now it is 100% better than it was. I am just so frusterated because I feel like I am climbing this huge up-hill mountain and making only an inch of progress at a time. Plus, it is set up in my room becuase it was way to heavy - even without water - to be carried up 3 flights of stairs. I am actually begining to wish I never took this on. I am getting no joy out of this tank at all, I am doing it only because I feel obligated to save this poor fishes life. I needed this tank for my current goldfish, not for an agressive species I had no intention of having to begin with. I am just venting, sorry guys. I just feel like pulling my hair out right now becuase this tank is so nasty and I feel overwhelmed by it. I just want to scream! AAAAHHHH! Blessings Dr. Katie Craft ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 9:52:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 10:40:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32367	From: grammy1086	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It would be interesting if you'd keep a chart of your tap water baseline > tests. I'm wondering if your pH goes up in the winter due to a lower CO2 > level in the water due to the cooler water temps. > > You should track your tap water on the 1) out-the-tap, 2) 24 hours, 3) 48 > hours test once a month for a year and see how much more the water > chemistry/parameters might change. The basic tests like ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, GH, KH, temperature, CO2 (can be figured out using the pH, KH > and temp). > > When you say pH is off the charts, how high is it? Is it off the charts out > the tap and does it stay that high on the 48 hour baseline test? > > My pH, KH and GH gets higher during the summer months down here in the New > Orleans. I haven't checked with my public utility to see if they raise the > buffering levels during the summer months since the warmer water would be > more likely to have a higher CO2 level, thus possibly making it acidic, or > if the warmer water is causing calcium/mineral buildup inside the pipes to > leech into the flowing water. There is a big difference in temperature > between the tap water in the summer to winter... around 20F difference... > and that's always something to know as well so you don't refill a tank with > very cold water, after a PWC during the winter which might lower the tank > temp quite a bit. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > Good Afternoon, I have not kept charts but do test regularly, seasonally. It is always lower in summer:6. range and as high as 8. in winter. Like I said earlier it is spring water. I have a sample waiting for morning to test the nitrates again. Everything is fine for now, I fear continued high nitrate levels will cause problems even if they are considered acceptable. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of grammy1086 > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Have you tested your water out of the tap? This may be your source > of > > nitrates. Suggested is to draw a sample, test immediately out of the > > tap, let the water sit and test again 24 hours later. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > Good Morning! The water from tap is 0ppm. I have a sample waiting > for tomorrow moning.We'll see. I have tested PH from tap (we have spring > water) it is always higher in the winter mo.(off the charts higher). > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of grammy1086 > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > > > I must be honest, I joined group a couple of days ago. I like to > sit > > back and watch to get a sense of "atmosphere". Must say; the ZD > thing > > had me wary. I have 3 tanks, A 10gal. that houses 1 albino frog. A > > 55gal. that houses a pink convict, jack dempsey, 2 julii coryd's, 1 > > panda cory, 1 albino cory, 1 rainbow shark, 1 black fin shark, and > 2 > > very old gold gouramis. I know I'm going to get beat up for this > one, > > a 29 gal reef, (this tank used to be the tropical) found the 55g. > > complete for $75.00 couldn't pass it up! After transfering the > trops > > into the 55g. I decided to do a reef (had a 20 gal fish only for 5 > or > > 6 years doing great until the tornados hit our area, lost power for > > days, all was lost). Reef is about 6mo. old. Home to 2 clown fish, > 2 > > yellow tail damsels, 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 halloween crab, 2 > tiny > > blue knuckle crabs, 2 tiny snails (turbo). There are also 2 small > > zoanthid colonies, 1 3.5 in. brain coral, 2 dwarf feather duster > > worms, 1 med size mushroom colony (rhodactis) very small glove > polyps > > colony, 1 med size tree coral. My ammonia is 0ppm, nitites 0ppm, ph is > > 8.2, calcium is 400, salinity is 1.024. My nitrates are always > 10 > > to 15 ppm.even after water changes (I do this regularly, same day, > > roughly 6gals every week.) What am I doing wrong? What other info > do > > you need? Thank you for any help you can give. > > > > > > Ps. Yes, I am looking for a 75gal. at least for the Reef. Ilive in > > central n.y. (any out there) > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 > Tested on: 11/3/2008 3:26:24 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 > Tested on: 11/3/2008 3:37:22 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32368	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)

Grammy, I moved your reply from down below my reply to above my previous reply. I think most would agree that this is the preferred way to answer a reply. I know it's kind of backwards to put the answer above the question but it keeps things in chronological order from bottom to top. Also, there's a chance someone might not scroll down to find your answer if you are answering a long reply (such as mine tend to be.. lol). The reader might think you hit the Send button before typing anything. If you have your email client set up to start replies at the bottoms of emails, you might want to manually change your ways when replying to group/forum emails. Also, some emails from Yahoo will be truncated, that is, they will chop off the bottom of the email so your reply could get chopped off. Anyhow, that said, have you ever tested your GH, KH, temperature and CO2 levels throughout the seasons? I'm wondering if the lower pH isn't caused by a higher CO2 level due to the warmer water during the summer? The 48 hour baseline test would help determine the cause of the pH changes. I would suspect they are not as far off as your right-out-the-tap tests might have shown in the past. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grammy1086 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) Good Afternoon, I have not kept charts but do test regularly, seasonally. It is always lower in summer:6. range and as high as 8. in winter. Like I said earlier it is spring water. I have a sample waiting for morning to test the nitrates again. Everything is fine for now, I fear continued high nitrate levels will cause problems even if they are considered acceptable. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It would be interesting if you'd keep a chart of your tap water baseline > tests. I'm wondering if your pH goes up in the winter due to a lower CO2 > level in the water due to the cooler water temps. > > You should track your tap water on the 1) out-the-tap, 2) 24 hours, 3) 48 > hours test once a month for a year and see how much more the water > chemistry/parameters might change. The basic tests like ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, GH, KH, temperature, CO2 (can be figured out using the pH, KH > and temp). > > When you say pH is off the charts, how high is it? Is it off the charts out > the tap and does it stay that high on the 48 hour baseline test? > > My pH, KH and GH gets higher during the summer months down here in the New > Orleans. I haven't checked with my public utility to see if they raise the > buffering levels during the summer months since the warmer water would be > more likely to have a higher CO2 level, thus possibly making it acidic, or > if the warmer water is causing calcium/mineral buildup inside the pipes to > leech into the flowing water. There is a big difference in temperature > between the tap water in the summer to winter... around 20F difference... > and that's always something to know as well so you don't refill a tank with > very cold water, after a PWC during the winter which might lower the tank > temp quite a bit. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > Good Afternoon, I have not kept charts but do test regularly, seasonally. It is always lower in summer:6. range and as high as 8. in winter. Like I said earlier it is spring water. I have a sample waiting for morning to test the nitrates again. Everything is fine for now, I fear continued high nitrate levels will cause problems even if they are considered acceptable. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of grammy1086 > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Have you tested your water out of the tap? This may be your source > of > > nitrates. Suggested is to draw a sample, test immediately out of the > > tap, let the water sit and test again 24 hours later. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > Good Morning! The water from tap is 0ppm. I have a sample waiting > for tomorrow moning.We'll see. I have tested PH from tap (we have spring > water) it is always higher in the winter mo.(off the charts higher). > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of grammy1086 > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > > > I must be honest, I joined group a couple of days ago. I like to > sit > > back and watch to get a sense of "atmosphere". Must say; the ZD > thing > > had me wary. I have 3 tanks, A 10gal. that houses 1 albino frog. A > > 55gal. that houses a pink convict, jack dempsey, 2 julii coryd's, 1 > > panda cory, 1 albino cory, 1 rainbow shark, 1 black fin shark, and > 2 > > very old gold gouramis. I know I'm going to get beat up for this > one, > > a 29 gal reef, (this tank used to be the tropical) found the 55g. > > complete for $75.00 couldn't pass it up! After transfering the > trops > > into the 55g. I decided to do a reef (had a 20 gal fish only for 5 > or > > 6 years doing great until the tornados hit our area, lost power for > > days, all was lost). Reef is about 6mo. old. Home to 2 clown fish, > 2 > > yellow tail damsels, 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 halloween crab, 2 > tiny > > blue knuckle crabs, 2 tiny snails (turbo). There are also 2 small > > zoanthid colonies, 1 3.5 in. brain coral, 2 dwarf feather duster > > worms, 1 med size mushroom colony (rhodactis) very small glove > polyps > > colony, 1 med size tree coral. My ammonia is 0ppm, nitites 0ppm, ph is > > 8.2, calcium is 400, salinity is 1.024. My nitrates are always > 10 > > to 15 ppm.even after water changes (I do this regularly, same day, > > roughly 6gals every week.) What am I doing wrong? What other info > do > > you need? Thank you for any help you can give. > > > > > > Ps. Yes, I am looking for a 75gal. at least for the Reef. Ilive in > > central n.y. (any out there) > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 11:30:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32369	From: Saps Gal	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: new salt water tank! advice please

Personally, I started stocking my marine tank the day after setting it up, by adding a couple of hardy damsels, and a couple of cleaner shrimp, but the guys here will say its best to fishless cycle. I was checking the Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates on a daily basis and they were next to nothing for the first couple of weeks, till eventually there was only nitrates present at the level of 5ppm which is fine. I started to add more stock as the weeks went by, my tank is now approx 10 weeks and houses Fish 1 Yellow Tang 1 Regal Tang 1 Coral Beauty 2 Percula Clowns 1 Blue Cleaner Wrasse 1 Royal Gramma 3 Blue/Green Chromis 1 Green Mandarin Clean Up Crew 2 Cleaner Shrimp 1 Anemone Crab 1 Emerald Crab 2 Large blue leg hermits 10 dwarf hermits 5 Turbo snails Other Inverts 3 Feather duster fan worms 1 starfish 1 Clove star polyp 2 pom pom polyps 1 large leather toadstool 1 sarcophyton feathery toadstool 1 mushroom rock 1 small trumpet coral 1 button polyp I have had no problems whatsoever apart from losing the original 2 damsels, this was not down to the water quality, but a territorial fight between the damsels and the largest Chromi, (the chromi won) I read so many stories on success and unsuccessful tanks before starting that I decided to take a chance and learn by my own mistakes....mine has been fine and thats my opinion. Good Luck and if you want to know anything else, just ask! «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Courtland Jacob To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 12:48 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please ok so i bought the bio cube, larger size i like being able to time my day/night cycle and the tank looks good all set up and i have a good little live rock set up. now for the advice. i have heard conflicting views on starting a saltwater tank, one or two people say in a few days start with some cleaners and slowly add fish, other say don't touch the tank for 8 weeks and wait for the ammonia spike and the tank will naturally cycle itself. the live rock has already been cured, i bought the water already mixed and seeded and then of course some live sand. some have said that the wait time after setting up the aquarium is to cure the live rock, some say it still needs to cycle for 8 weeks so i want to know what you guys think. how long do i need to wait? how slowly do i introduce new life, how often do i test? any advice i can get will be greatly appreciated, you guys have given me a lot of great advice so i trust a lot of what i read here [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: new salt water tank! advice please

Julie, I'm guessing your tank is on the bigger side than a bio-cube (considering your current stocking load)... so the water chemistry issues are a little more forgiving especially with a small bioload of only three fish in a big tank. That may be what kept your ammonia/nitrite tests from showing much of a test result... or your test kit may not have been accurate. But each time you added more of a bio-load there would certainly have been a small ammonia/nitrite spike until the nitrifying bacteria caught up to the new bioload. Also remember that even ANY ammonia in a tank with a pH over 8.0 which most SW tanks should have, would be toxic to most fish. The higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes and even 0.25ppm starts to become toxic at a pH over 8.0. The higher the temp, the more the ammonia becomes toxic as well. While your test kit might not have shown it, your fish certainly knew it... and could likely have led to the fighting (it could have been territorial also). It's survival of the fittest and if water quality becomes an issue, the fish that wants to survive will kill off other tank mates to try and insure it's own life. The fish do not know that you are "cycling with fish" and that it's only a couple of weeks of ammonia/nitrite issues they have to live with. All they know is that if they kill off the other fish, maybe their water quality will improve... at least that's what my personal fish psychology assumptions are. LOL As far as learning from your own mistakes, that's OK when it doesn't mean something else might have to die because of them. Just my opinion and I know what they say about opinions. LOL In closing, it's much better to either fishless cycle or spend the $15.00 on Dr. Tim's One And Only and instantly cycle the tank. The dead fish likely cost you more than that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please Personally, I started stocking my marine tank the day after setting it up, by adding a couple of hardy damsels, and a couple of cleaner shrimp, but the guys here will say its best to fishless cycle. I was checking the Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates on a daily basis and they were next to nothing for the first couple of weeks, till eventually there was only nitrates present at the level of 5ppm which is fine. I started to add more stock as the weeks went by, my tank is now approx 10 weeks and houses Fish 1 Yellow Tang 1 Regal Tang 1 Coral Beauty 2 Percula Clowns 1 Blue Cleaner Wrasse 1 Royal Gramma 3 Blue/Green Chromis 1 Green Mandarin Clean Up Crew 2 Cleaner Shrimp 1 Anemone Crab 1 Emerald Crab 2 Large blue leg hermits 10 dwarf hermits 5 Turbo snails Other Inverts 3 Feather duster fan worms 1 starfish 1 Clove star polyp 2 pom pom polyps 1 large leather toadstool 1 sarcophyton feathery toadstool 1 mushroom rock 1 small trumpet coral 1 button polyp I have had no problems whatsoever apart from losing the original 2 damsels, this was not down to the water quality, but a territorial fight between the damsels and the largest Chromi, (the chromi won) I read so many stories on success and unsuccessful tanks before starting that I decided to take a chance and learn by my own mistakes....mine has been fine and thats my opinion. Good Luck and if you want to know anything else, just ask! «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Courtland Jacob To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 12:48 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please ok so i bought the bio cube, larger size i like being able to time my day/night cycle and the tank looks good all set up and i have a good little live rock set up. now for the advice. i have heard conflicting views on starting a saltwater tank, one or two people say in a few days start with some cleaners and slowly add fish, other say don't touch the tank for 8 weeks and wait for the ammonia spike and the tank will naturally cycle itself. the live rock has already been cured, i bought the water already mixed and seeded and then of course some live sand. some have said that the wait time after setting up the aquarium is to cure the live rock, some say it still needs to cycle for 8 weeks so i want to know what you guys think. how long do i need to wait? how slowly do i introduce new life, how often do i test? any advice i can get will be greatly appreciated, you guys have given me a lot of great advice so i trust a lot of what i read here [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 12:35:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 12:58:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32371	From: cherrystix81	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: A voice of protest

so today i decided to read all my email.and was wondering what all the talk about danios r about :) just kidding but really i finally established my tank and bought to my surprise danios hahahahaha no really i did....but they were long tailed blue and zebra. i am enjoying the activity and they are always busy and i think they will do well in my hard water tank......sorry had to say something about the danio.>>>>>kate --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Henry, > > I think we're all just closeted ZDmaniacs. After one of the mods put a > clamp down on the "old" thread about ZD's, two or three new threads have > been started by folks complaining about the old ZD thread. > > Tall C.R.A.P. to bring it on.... my lawyer can beat up their lawyer. LOL > > Did you notice... I never mentioned zebra danio even once? Dang... I just > did. Oh well... ZD, ZD, ZD, ZD, ZD.. LOL > > And now, in my best Rodney King impersonation... > > "Can't we all just get along".. OUCH.. OOOH.. OUCH... OOOH.. (as \\Steve//, > Mike, Ray and others beat me with their Billy Clubs)... "Don't taze me bro!" > as Harry zaps me the tazer. OK.. I give up! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of henry puryear > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] A voice of protest > > Hello everyone. I am protest that we have been showing too much favoritism > to the zebra danio, what about other danios. The "other" danios include > rainbows, and others. I think that if we do not start talking about other > fish including other types of danios, this group might get with slapped a > discrimination lawsuit. It's obvious that we have spent way too much time > discussing this elitist fish while other fish who also qualify are being > ignored. What about goldfish? They live in several areas where they have > escaped from jaws of death in little bowls and are living the good life in > lakes, rivers and ponds. What about that special fish with the pretty smile, > the piranha? They and their buddy Oscar and enjoying life big time in the > canals and rivers and swamps of Florida. > > Please, give all fish an equal and level playing field or I will be > reporting you to Council Representing All Piscine otherwise known as CRAP. > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! > > zebra danio.. lol.. mu-ah-ha-ha-ha > > -----Original Message----- > From: HYPERLINK > "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:HYPERLINK > "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of HYPERLINK > "mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net"bubuci@... > <mailto:bubuci%40tmo.blackberry.net> > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 2:45 PM > To: HYPERLINK > "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! > > Agreed! > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Dr. Katie Craft" <HYPERLINK > "mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com"mom2angeldog@... > <mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com> <mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com> > > > Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:31:20 > To: <HYPERLINK > "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com"AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HOLY CRAP! ENOUGH WITH THE ZEBRA DANIOS!!!!! > > I am going to go insane if I get another daily digest with "RE: Zebra > Danios" one more time....come on, enough is enough. Why are we still even > considering allowing these posts to go through? Dont they have to be > "approved" first...this thread is pointless and going nowhere. I am part of > this group to share and learn, not to listen to one person (ahem, DORA!) > argue all day everyday!!! Its getting really old! > Dr. Katie Craft > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 3:45:42 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <HYPERLINK "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > "http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 Tested on: 11/1/2008 3:47:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 > 6:56 AM > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 > 6:56 AM > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 > Tested on: 11/1/2008 4:56:42 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081031-1, 10/31/2008 > Tested on: 11/1/2008 5:22:47 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32372	From: danf2346	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Introduce myself

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi Dan. > Welcome to the group. > So glad to hear you got back into the hobby again. It's so relaxing, > and i believe it adds life to the room that the tank is in. > They are many great people on this list who i know will be more then > willing to offer some helpful advice should you require it. > What type of set up are you doing? > > Cheers > Lisa (Australia) > Hi Lisa, thanks:) I have a 20 gallon. It has 4 silver tipped tetras, 3 black neon tetras, 3 guppies, 3 neon tetras. I also have a 6 gallon with 1 betta. The 20 gallon has been set up for about 2 months now. I have had african dwarf frogs years ago, and always had them in a tank by themselves. I was wondering how they would do in either my community tank or with the betta? They always did great by themselves, but want to be 100% sure they would be ok in one of my current tanks before adding. The ph on both tanks is 7, and I have been doing 30% water changes every 2 weeks on the 20 gallon and weekly 30% water changes on the 6 gallon. Well, thanks for listening to my ramblings!lol Dan:)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32373	From: Saps Gal	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: new salt water tank! advice please

Yes Lenny, my tank is bigger than a bio cube and the filtration system is far superior for the size of the tank. My water readings were accurate, I am using the API master test kit which I am familiar with because I was already running tropical and coldwater tanks. My point being (as I was also told by my LFS) there are many theories regarding fishless cycling and you must not take everything you read or hear as being correct, you have to take what you learn and know then make your own decisions, which is what I did. As for the price of the lost fish, I am in the uk and the damsels cost me £7.00, I was not familiar (still not) with Dr Tims one and only. Sadly I did lose the 2 damsels, which I will never know if it was down to stress or territorial behaviour, but I noticed that no-one had replied to Jacobs? post so I simply expressed my opinion :o) «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please Julie, I'm guessing your tank is on the bigger side than a bio-cube (considering your current stocking load)... so the water chemistry issues are a little more forgiving especially with a small bioload of only three fish in a big tank. That may be what kept your ammonia/nitrite tests from showing much of a test result... or your test kit may not have been accurate. But each time you added more of a bio-load there would certainly have been a small ammonia/nitrite spike until the nitrifying bacteria caught up to the new bioload. Also remember that even ANY ammonia in a tank with a pH over 8.0 which most SW tanks should have, would be toxic to most fish. The higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes and even 0.25ppm starts to become toxic at a pH over 8.0. The higher the temp, the more the ammonia becomes toxic as well. While your test kit might not have shown it, your fish certainly knew it... and could likely have led to the fighting (it could have been territorial also). It's survival of the fittest and if water quality becomes an issue, the fish that wants to survive will kill off other tank mates to try and insure it's own life. The fish do not know that you are "cycling with fish" and that it's only a couple of weeks of ammonia/nitrite issues they have to live with. All they know is that if they kill off the other fish, maybe their water quality will improve... at least that's what my personal fish psychology assumptions are. LOL As far as learning from your own mistakes, that's OK when it doesn't mean something else might have to die because of them. Just my opinion and I know what they say about opinions. LOL In closing, it's much better to either fishless cycle or spend the $15.00 on Dr. Tim's One And Only and instantly cycle the tank. The dead fish likely cost you more than that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please Personally, I started stocking my marine tank the day after setting it up, by adding a couple of hardy damsels, and a couple of cleaner shrimp, but the guys here will say its best to fishless cycle. I was checking the Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates on a daily basis and they were next to nothing for the first couple of weeks, till eventually there was only nitrates present at the level of 5ppm which is fine. I started to add more stock as the weeks went by, my tank is now approx 10 weeks and houses Fish 1 Yellow Tang 1 Regal Tang 1 Coral Beauty 2 Percula Clowns 1 Blue Cleaner Wrasse 1 Royal Gramma 3 Blue/Green Chromis 1 Green Mandarin Clean Up Crew 2 Cleaner Shrimp 1 Anemone Crab 1 Emerald Crab 2 Large blue leg hermits 10 dwarf hermits 5 Turbo snails Other Inverts 3 Feather duster fan worms 1 starfish 1 Clove star polyp 2 pom pom polyps 1 large leather toadstool 1 sarcophyton feathery toadstool 1 mushroom rock 1 small trumpet coral 1 button polyp I have had no problems whatsoever apart from losing the original 2 damsels, this was not down to the water quality, but a territorial fight between the damsels and the largest Chromi, (the chromi won) I read so many stories on success and unsuccessful tanks before starting that I decided to take a chance and learn by my own mistakes....mine has been fine and thats my opinion. Good Luck and if you want to know anything else, just ask! «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Courtland Jacob To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 12:48 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please ok so i bought the bio cube, larger size i like being able to time my day/night cycle and the tank looks good all set up and i have a good little live rock set up. now for the advice. i have heard conflicting views on starting a saltwater tank, one or two people say in a few days start with some cleaners and slowly add fish, other say don't touch the tank for 8 weeks and wait for the ammonia spike and the tank will naturally cycle itself. the live rock has already been cured, i bought the water already mixed and seeded and then of course some live sand. some have said that the wait time after setting up the aquarium is to cure the live rock, some say it still needs to cycle for 8 weeks so i want to know what you guys think. how long do i need to wait? how slowly do i introduce new life, how often do i test? any advice i can get will be greatly appreciated, you guys have given me a lot of great advice so i trust a lot of what i read here [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 12:35:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 12:58:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32374	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: new salt water tank! advice please

Well... there are no longer any "theories" concerning fishless cycling. It's a proven scientific fact. Had you said, there are many ways to do fishless cycling, then yes, I would agree with you but most of them are legitimate methods and do work. There may still be theories concerning evolution, gravity, the big bang theory, etc., but the "Nitrogen Cycle" is a proven fact that exists in all facets of nature and due to modern science, we now know not only exactly which bacteria do the nitrification in both SW and FW, but we know exactly how to get the nitrogen cycle going full steam in an aquarium without the need to put fish through the arduous process. It can be done with a 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia, a $15.00 bottle of Dr. Tim's One And Only, a piece of raw shrimp, some fish food, etc... or if those are too expensive or unavailable, then all it takes is some human urine... which is usually free. The hardest part is stopping the flow at one tablespoon per 10G.. and yes, this method really works. LOL http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml (1/4th the way down the page) Considering our many choices in methods to humanely fishless cycle a new tank, there's simply no reason to put live, otherwise healthy fish through the arduous and often deadly process... not counting the likelihood that those fish will be far more susceptible to illnesses in the future and a shortened lifespan due to the stress of having gone through the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please Yes Lenny, my tank is bigger than a bio cube and the filtration system is far superior for the size of the tank. My water readings were accurate, I am using the API master test kit which I am familiar with because I was already running tropical and coldwater tanks. My point being (as I was also told by my LFS) there are many theories regarding fishless cycling and you must not take everything you read or hear as being correct, you have to take what you learn and know then make your own decisions, which is what I did. As for the price of the lost fish, I am in the uk and the damsels cost me £7.00, I was not familiar (still not) with Dr Tims one and only. Sadly I did lose the 2 damsels, which I will never know if it was down to stress or territorial behaviour, but I noticed that no-one had replied to Jacobs? post so I simply expressed my opinion :o) «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please Julie, I'm guessing your tank is on the bigger side than a bio-cube (considering your current stocking load)... so the water chemistry issues are a little more forgiving especially with a small bioload of only three fish in a big tank. That may be what kept your ammonia/nitrite tests from showing much of a test result... or your test kit may not have been accurate. But each time you added more of a bio-load there would certainly have been a small ammonia/nitrite spike until the nitrifying bacteria caught up to the new bioload. Also remember that even ANY ammonia in a tank with a pH over 8.0 which most SW tanks should have, would be toxic to most fish. The higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes and even 0.25ppm starts to become toxic at a pH over 8.0. The higher the temp, the more the ammonia becomes toxic as well. While your test kit might not have shown it, your fish certainly knew it... and could likely have led to the fighting (it could have been territorial also). It's survival of the fittest and if water quality becomes an issue, the fish that wants to survive will kill off other tank mates to try and insure it's own life. The fish do not know that you are "cycling with fish" and that it's only a couple of weeks of ammonia/nitrite issues they have to live with. All they know is that if they kill off the other fish, maybe their water quality will improve... at least that's what my personal fish psychology assumptions are. LOL As far as learning from your own mistakes, that's OK when it doesn't mean something else might have to die because of them. Just my opinion and I know what they say about opinions. LOL In closing, it's much better to either fishless cycle or spend the $15.00 on Dr. Tim's One And Only and instantly cycle the tank. The dead fish likely cost you more than that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Saps Gal Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please Personally, I started stocking my marine tank the day after setting it up, by adding a couple of hardy damsels, and a couple of cleaner shrimp, but the guys here will say its best to fishless cycle. I was checking the Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates on a daily basis and they were next to nothing for the first couple of weeks, till eventually there was only nitrates present at the level of 5ppm which is fine. I started to add more stock as the weeks went by, my tank is now approx 10 weeks and houses Fish 1 Yellow Tang 1 Regal Tang 1 Coral Beauty 2 Percula Clowns 1 Blue Cleaner Wrasse 1 Royal Gramma 3 Blue/Green Chromis 1 Green Mandarin Clean Up Crew 2 Cleaner Shrimp 1 Anemone Crab 1 Emerald Crab 2 Large blue leg hermits 10 dwarf hermits 5 Turbo snails Other Inverts 3 Feather duster fan worms 1 starfish 1 Clove star polyp 2 pom pom polyps 1 large leather toadstool 1 sarcophyton feathery toadstool 1 mushroom rock 1 small trumpet coral 1 button polyp I have had no problems whatsoever apart from losing the original 2 damsels, this was not down to the water quality, but a territorial fight between the damsels and the largest Chromi, (the chromi won) I read so many stories on success and unsuccessful tanks before starting that I decided to take a chance and learn by my own mistakes....mine has been fine and thats my opinion. Good Luck and if you want to know anything else, just ask! «·´*`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.*).·´*`·» «·´¨*·.¸¸.*~*~Julie~*~*.¸¸.·*¨`·» «·´*`·.(¸.·´(¸.·*·.¸)`·.¸).·´*`·» ----- Original Message ----- From: Courtland Jacob To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 12:48 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] new salt water tank! advice please ok so i bought the bio cube, larger size i like being able to time my day/night cycle and the tank looks good all set up and i have a good little live rock set up. now for the advice. i have heard conflicting views on starting a saltwater tank, one or two people say in a few days start with some cleaners and slowly add fish, other say don't touch the tank for 8 weeks and wait for the ammonia spike and the tank will naturally cycle itself. the live rock has already been cured, i bought the water already mixed and seeded and then of course some live sand. some have said that the wait time after setting up the aquarium is to cure the live rock, some say it still needs to cycle for 8 weeks so i want to know what you guys think. how long do i need to wait? how slowly do i introduce new life, how often do i test? any advice i can get will be greatly appreciated, you guys have given me a lot of great advice so i trust a lot of what i read here [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 4:03:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32375	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Frusterated :(

Katie, Keep your eye on the goal. Keep your eye on the goal. Do a daily water change, and stick you gravel vacuum into the grave3l bed as deep as you can. Then move it around a bit and up and down, and, hopefully, you'll have that one little patch taken care of for the time being by the time you have gotten 10-25% of the water removed. The next day, move to an adjacent spot and do the same. Slowly and gradually, you will notice the changes in the tank. In the end, it should be well worth the effort you spent. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Frusterated :( Thanks everyone for your advice on what to do with the nasty tank and convict cichlid I "rescued". There is no way at all though I can do hourly water changes. And the reason I couldnt clean the gravel the day I got it was that I needed to get the fish out of the bag I lugged him home in and into the tank. Believe me, I did as much as I could to make it liveable in the time I had. It is disgusting now and now it is 100% better than it was. I am just so frusterated because I feel like I am climbing this huge up-hill mountain and making only an inch of progress at a time. Plus, it is set up in my room becuase it was way to heavy - even without water - to be carried up 3 flights of stairs. I am actually begining to wish I never took this on. I am getting no joy out of this tank at all, I am doing it only because I feel obligated to save this poor fishes life. I needed this tank for my current goldfish, not for an agressive species I had no intention of having to begin with. I am just venting, sorry guys. I just feel like pulling my hair out right now becuase this tank is so nasty and I feel overwhelmed by it. I just want to scream! AAAAHHHH! Blessings Dr. Katie Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32376	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta

Well I know that my tap water right out of the tap is around 6.5 PH, I didn't think to wait to test it again, but I will do that. My tank seems to buffer out to a 6 PH though, so I'm guessing my tap water might be closer to 6 PH after it settles. I am not sure what is required in caring for a boiler system, as I am in a condo and there are people who regularly seem to check our boilers and such. I have read that they add extra chemicals to help keep the pipes clear though, but not sure if this pertains to my particular boiler. I do know that the system is a bit old (built in the 1970's), so I wouldn't be surprised if things have settled into the pipes and such. My test kit only does the basics, I didn't think to get anything that tests GH or KH. All I have are test strips to test for those, and I know that test strips are not that reliable, so didn't bother to use them. The test kit I have that tests everything else is vials with added activators in liquid form. I also have a PH tester that is electrical but I think it's not working right as it always reads my tank at a 7 PH, LOL. I am already keeping my eye out for a larger tank for my living room, and would really prefer a 100 gallon if I can find one. I will probably put in a word at the fish store and see if they will keep me posted if someone in town wants to sell a used aquarium setup. I know there are a lot people in town with big tanks, but don't know anyone getting rid of one. I know that the local tap water is extremely soft (the fish store already forewarned me of this), but don't know if it will affect anything else in the tank. Also on a side note, my male beta has been recently acting oddly since I switched his tanks last week. Is it normal for them to stop eating for a few days at a time? He doesn't show any signs of illness that I can see (no bloat, dropsy, ick, etc), he just hangs out at the top of the 10 gallon tank and I don't think he has been eating the past few days. Nothing in the tank is off, it should be the same as my big tank and the readings were fine a couple days ago when I tested them last. I haven't put the frog in there in case the beta is stressed or something, I didn't want to cause him more stress. He's just not exploring his tank or doing much of anything, I thought maybe he was getting ready to make a bubble nest, but he hasn't changed his behavior the last 4 days. He was acting this way before I moved him out of my other tank as well. He's also not a new fish, I've had him for a month or so now and up until now he was a very active and happy beta. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32377	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: Introduce myself

Oh I can answer this one :) My dwarf frog does just fine with my community tank, in fact I often forget he is in there as I don't see him most of the time except when he comes up for air, or he's swimming around the top of the tank doing whatever frogs do. I plan on putting my dwarf frog into my 10 gallon with my beta, and have been told that they both like the same water quality so they should do just fine together. My tanks both sit at about 6 PH and my frog seems happy, haven't had any issues with him so far at least. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32378	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

Bill, Half the battle is in asking the right questions <G>. You should probably ask if it will work to my, and the fishes, benefit. Yes, it will work to remove ammonia. It will also probably remove some calcium and other ions as well. I have a bit different take on the PVC-* products on the page Lenny references. My thought is that some of the chips are colored and others are the natural color of the material. While in a small container, it can probably be used as the substrate, and removed to be recharged. In a larger tank, it would be better to bag it for easy removal and recharging. The down side of using this material is that it removes beneficial ions as well as harmful ions. Lack of calcium, as mentioned above, will not only affect snail growth (yes, those are faint cheers you hear in the background from the snail haters), but it also limits its availability to the fish for proper skeletal formation. Removing ammonia does not give the nitro-bacteria species to gain a foothold to establish a cycle, as you know, important for the long term benefit of the fish and tank beyond the fishes' life span. However, for emergency use, it may well be something that will fill the bill. For instance, look at Dr. Katie's dilemma with the fish she has rescued coming along with the 55 gallon tank. She definitely needs to get the ammonia down and have it stay down while she tries to get the tank back in shape. Once the tank is back in shape, removing portions of the zeolite to make ammonia available to the bacteria that need it would be the way to go, until that tank is handling the cycle on its own. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi,   My son purchased this sometime ago.  Is this product along the same lines?  And the "age old question"?  Does it really work? Called:   Pro-V and it's marketed by Penn-Plax   Bill --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 6:33 PM So \\Steve//, Did you type that list or a copy/paste? LOL I think the only zeolite I've ever seen in the various pet stores and LFS I've been too have been the kind that are used for sucking up ammonia. Do you know which of the below list is the one? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Please do keep in mind that zeolite is, more or less, a generic term. There are a number of materials out there that can remove various substances we do not want in our tanks. You were using the kind that pulls the ammonia out, which is not really desirable in fish environments since we would rather establish a biological cycle to do this for us as it will create a more stable environment for the fish. Even small amounts of ammonia can be toxic to fish over the long term, and for some fish, the short term. Here is a list of the various minerals that are zeolites: * Amicite * Analcime * Barrerite * Bellbergite * Bikitaite * Boggsite * Brewsterite * Chabazite * Clinoptilolite * Cowlesite * Dachiardite * Edingtonite * Epistilbite * Erionite * Faujasite * Ferrierite * Garronite * Gismondine * Gmelinite * Gobbinsite * Gonnardite * Goosecreekite * Harmotome * Herschelite * Heulandite * Laumontite * Levyne * Maricopaite * Mazzite * Merlinoite * Mesolite * Montesommaite * Mordenite * Natrolite * Offretite * Paranatrolite * Paulingite * Pentasil * Perlialite * Phillipsite * Pollucite * Scolecite * Sodium Dachiardite * Stellerite * Stilbite * Tetranatrolite * Thomsonite * Tschernichite * Wairakite * Wellsite * Willhendersonite * Yugawaralite \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of skyak52 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/ zeolite systems so I though "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had any trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of mind-blowing. My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these sorts of problems before. My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two albino cats were with him. so I don't know. Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32379	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta

Amber, When you mentioned having a boiler system earlier, I had no idea what you were talking about. Now that you have shed more light on the subject, I think you actually have hot water heat, and the boiler(s) are probably also used for heating your water. The cold water has nothing to do with the boilers. Any additives that may be in the boiler water are probably in the water that circulates for heart rather than in the water supplied hot. Another thought is that you may live in an area where the water is extremely hard, so, at least some of the water may be softened. This may be covered in your condo documents, or, you can ask one of your maintenance people about it. Since you are living in a condo unit, you probably have municipal water. If you are in the US, you should be able to get a water quality report from them either by requesting it, or by going online and getting it there. This will tell you a lot about your local water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta. Well I know that my tap water right out of the tap is around 6.5 PH, I didn't think to wait to test it again, but I will do that. My tank seems to buffer out to a 6 PH though, so I'm guessing my tap water might be closer to 6 PH after it settles. I am not sure what is required in caring for a boiler system, as I am in a condo and there are people who regularly seem to check our boilers and such. I have read that they add extra chemicals to help keep the pipes clear though, but not sure if this pertains to my particular boiler. I do know that the system is a bit old (built in the 1970's), so I wouldn't be surprised if things have settled into the pipes and such. My test kit only does the basics, I didn't think to get anything that tests GH or KH. All I have are test strips to test for those, and I know that test strips are not that reliable, so didn't bother to use them. The test kit I have that tests everything else is vials with added activators in liquid form. I also have a PH tester that is electrical but I think it's not working right as it always reads my tank at a 7 PH, LOL. I am already keeping my eye out for a larger tank for my living room, and would really prefer a 100 gallon if I can find one. I will probably put in a word at the fish store and see if they will keep me posted if someone in town wants to sell a used aquarium setup. I know there are a lot people in town with big tanks, but don't know anyone getting rid of one. I know that the local tap water is extremely soft (the fish store already forewarned me of this), but don't know if it will affect anything else in the tank. Also on a side note, my male beta has been recently acting oddly since I switched his tanks last week. Is it normal for them to stop eating for a few days at a time? He doesn't show any signs of illness that I can see (no bloat, dropsy, ick, etc), he just hangs out at the top of the 10 gallon tank and I don't think he has been eating the past few days. Nothing in the tank is off, it should be the same as my big tank and the readings were fine a couple days ago when I tested them last. I haven't put the frog in there in case the beta is stressed or something, I didn't want to cause him more stress. He's just not exploring his tank or doing much of anything, I thought maybe he was getting ready to make a bubble nest, but he hasn't changed his behavior the last 4 days. He was acting this way before I moved him out of my other tank as well. He's also not a new fish, I've had him for a month or so now and up until now he was a very active and happy beta. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32380	From: bill1433	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

Hi Steve, � Thanks for your input.� Fortunately or unfortunately as the case may be, I take the same stance as Lenny and maybe yourself on these matters. If it ain�t broke, don�t fix it, I haven�t�had the need to use it and it was only an after-thought to my well-water problem.� We'll be getting into that by weeks end.� And, of course, Lenny�s remark about the "95%" on many so called �aquarium remedies� weighs in heavily too.�� But then I am a bit old fashioned to begin with.� � In Doctor Katie�s case I think I would have handled the matter a bit differently.� But, I do not know her exact circumstances and also what equipment she has at her disposal, so I can only speculate from the side lines.� As for cleaning the gravel? �Why not incorporate that with the prescribed water changes? � Again, I�m not sure what equipment she has on hand; but why not remove the gravel altogether with a PWC, a bit at a time.� This could easily be accomplished through the use of a siphon hose 1 1 /4� inside diameter, instead of the small hose�s used in many cases.� Not standard equipment in an ordinary aquarium room I grant you, but readily available at the local hardware store in the clear plastic tubing section.� A 6� piece, should run $12.00.� Clean the gravel well and continue on until she has all removed and cleaned �and then put into another aquarium or clean bucket, whatever she has on hand.� With the amount of PWC prescribed and warranted, she should be done within a week.� In this manner she would also take drudgery out of also partially cleaning her external power filter, which will be under a terrible load while all of this is going on. �I am assuming here that she is more or less rising the filtering elements within the water change to keep the good bacteria active. � Nice hearing from you Steve, � Bill --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 8:16 PM Bill, Half the battle is in asking the right questions <G>. You should probably ask if it will work to my, and the fishes, benefit. Yes, it will work to remove ammonia. It will also probably remove some calcium and other ions as well. I have a bit different take on the PVC-* products on the page Lenny references. My thought is that some of the chips are colored and others are the natural color of the material. While in a small container, it can probably be used as the substrate, and removed to be recharged. In a larger tank, it would be better to bag it for easy removal and recharging. The down side of using this material is that it removes beneficial ions as well as harmful ions. Lack of calcium, as mentioned above, will not only affect snail growth (yes, those are faint cheers you hear in the background from the snail haters), but it also limits its availability to the fish for proper skeletal formation. Removing ammonia does not give the nitro-bacteria species to gain a foothold to establish a cycle, as you know, important for the long term benefit of the fish and tank beyond the fishes' life span. However, for emergency use, it may well be something that will fill the bill. For instance, look at Dr. Katie's dilemma with the fish she has rescued coming along with the 55 gallon tank. She definitely needs to get the ammonia down and have it stay down while she tries to get the tank back in shape.. Once the tank is back in shape, removing portions of the zeolite to make ammonia available to the bacteria that need it would be the way to go, until that tank is handling the cycle on its own. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi, � My son purchased this sometime ago.� Is this product along the same lines?� And the "age old question"?� Does it really work? Called:�� Pro-V and it's marketed by Penn-Plax � Bill --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 6:33 PM So \\Steve//, Did you type that list or a copy/paste? LOL I think the only zeolite I've ever seen in the various pet stores and LFS I've been too have been the kind that are used for sucking up ammonia. Do you know which of the below list is the one? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Please do keep in mind that zeolite is, more or less, a generic term. There are a number of materials out there that can remove various substances we do not want in our tanks. You were using the kind that pulls the ammonia out, which is not really desirable in fish environments since we would rather establish a biological cycle to do this for us as it will create a more stable environment for the fish. Even small amounts of ammonia can be toxic to fish over the long term, and for some fish, the short term. Here is a list of the various minerals that are zeolites: * Amicite * Analcime * Barrerite * Bellbergite * Bikitaite * Boggsite * Brewsterite * Chabazite * Clinoptilolite * Cowlesite * Dachiardite * Edingtonite * Epistilbite * Erionite * Faujasite * Ferrierite * Garronite * Gismondine * Gmelinite * Gobbinsite * Gonnardite * Goosecreekite * Harmotome * Herschelite * Heulandite * Laumontite * Levyne * Maricopaite * Mazzite * Merlinoite * Mesolite * Montesommaite * Mordenite * Natrolite * Offretite * Paranatrolite * Paulingite * Pentasil * Perlialite * Phillipsite * Pollucite * Scolecite * Sodium Dachiardite * Stellerite * Stilbite * Tetranatrolite * Thomsonite * Tschernichite * Wairakite * Wellsite * Willhendersonite * Yugawaralite \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of skyak52 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/ zeolite systems so I though "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had any trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of mind-blowing. My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these sorts of problems before. My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two albino cats were with him. so I don't know. Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32381	From: Alina	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Hi, I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at Lenny's blog, and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite see how I can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't look like that . I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an "X" in the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, at every "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start fiddling with cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might accidentally get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a lot of cuts in the media. As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie thing and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and replaced my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I paid for it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the tank and pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought of a PWC made my hands go immediately pruny. Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about how I'm going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can spare myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet another little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And can I just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter altogether? And can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to change out the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If so how can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to attach a photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32382	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

\\Steve// , Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the boiler heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I don't know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that occasionally they send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but not sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't readily available to the public, but I would assume that water quality should be posted somewhere here in town). I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of city limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I used a test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/3/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta

If all you have are some test strips, you might as well go ahead and use them to see whether they are giving you GH and KH readings on the high side or low side. Let us know the numbers. You might want to do the dip strips twice and average out the numbers.. that's what I used to do. LOL Since your LFS says your local water tends to be on the soft side and your own pH test kits are showing such a low pH, you may want to stick with fish that prefer those kinds of water parameters. There are plenty to choose from and some folks would kill to have your water. I wouldn't add anything else to the Betta tank right now until you see him acting normal again. I've only kept one Betta before and it was a 2 year old Betta in a vase that I rescued from a flooded home after Katrina. I acclimated him to a LARGE 1.5G vase that I had and then eventually set up a 10G for him and he lived out the rest of his life in his 10G "mansion", compared to the 1/2 gallon vase he had lived in the first two years. Could you have too much filtration on the tank? Bettas do not come from moving waters in the wild and the man-made much fancier finnage on most male Bettas sold today also do not lead to them doing well in moving waters so if you have too much filtration on the tank, it could be that he's just resting or staying in an area with less water movement. Of course, Betta's are also subject to getting constipated so if he's not eating that could be a cause. Normally, if a fish is eating, you could try to get him to eat some green pea "meat", that is pinch the skin off of a green pea (unsalted canned or defrosted frozen kind) and in the case of a Betta, you would have to mash up the green pea a little and just try a little bit of it. If he won't eat that, then an Epsom salt bath would be my next treatment. Here's a couple of pages talking about Betta constipation and give the details on the Epsom salt bath/dip and will also go over more details on feeding your guy a varied diet to prevent constipation in the future. http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152279 http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_constipated_fish.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta. Well I know that my tap water right out of the tap is around 6.5 PH, I didn't think to wait to test it again, but I will do that. My tank seems to buffer out to a 6 PH though, so I'm guessing my tap water might be closer to 6 PH after it settles. I am not sure what is required in caring for a boiler system, as I am in a condo and there are people who regularly seem to check our boilers and such. I have read that they add extra chemicals to help keep the pipes clear though, but not sure if this pertains to my particular boiler. I do know that the system is a bit old (built in the 1970's), so I wouldn't be surprised if things have settled into the pipes and such. My test kit only does the basics, I didn't think to get anything that tests GH or KH. All I have are test strips to test for those, and I know that test strips are not that reliable, so didn't bother to use them. The test kit I have that tests everything else is vials with added activators in liquid form. I also have a PH tester that is electrical but I think it's not working right as it always reads my tank at a 7 PH, LOL. I am already keeping my eye out for a larger tank for my living room, and would really prefer a 100 gallon if I can find one. I will probably put in a word at the fish store and see if they will keep me posted if someone in town wants to sell a used aquarium setup. I know there are a lot people in town with big tanks, but don't know anyone getting rid of one. I know that the local tap water is extremely soft (the fish store already forewarned me of this), but don't know if it will affect anything else in the tank. Also on a side note, my male beta has been recently acting oddly since I switched his tanks last week. Is it normal for them to stop eating for a few days at a time? He doesn't show any signs of illness that I can see (no bloat, dropsy, ick, etc), he just hangs out at the top of the 10 gallon tank and I don't think he has been eating the past few days. Nothing in the tank is off, it should be the same as my big tank and the readings were fine a couple days ago when I tested them last. I haven't put the frog in there in case the beta is stressed or something, I didn't want to cause him more stress. He's just not exploring his tank or doing much of anything, I thought maybe he was getting ready to make a bubble nest, but he hasn't changed his behavior the last 4 days. He was acting this way before I moved him out of my other tank as well. He's also not a new fish, I've had him for a month or so now and up until now he was a very active and happy beta. Thanks, Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 1:08:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32384	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know which filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several varieties depending on the filter system model. http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.aspx To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to slice through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic frame and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You could add some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many others) inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the floss pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter cleaning time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter cartridge good, even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount of surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. If you don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could put that in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as bio-balls which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as much surface area as a whole lot of gravel. Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked the tank is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult fancy goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked... at least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel every week leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give me much more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first stage in my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a smaller pore sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss pads and then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. This keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and it keeps the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff that the filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning it every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, detritus and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your email and I just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the filter media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz and Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly girl".. LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter cartridge from a couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a minute or two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears Hi, I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at Lenny's blog, and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite see how I can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't look like that . I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an "X" in the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, at every "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start fiddling with cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might accidentally get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a lot of cuts in the media. As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie thing and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and replaced my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I paid for it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the tank and pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought of a PWC made my hands go immediately pruny. Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about how I'm going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can spare myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet another little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And can I just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter altogether? And can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to change out the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If so how can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to attach a photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. Alina ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 10:16:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 2:14:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32385	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Angel Fry-update

Hi My Angel fry are 8 days old now, I remind you that I'm a first timer, only a few could be saved from the community tank. I lost a few more when I first added the infusoria! (only 20 ml for half a gallon of tank water), what could have caused their death? The rest are lying on their side all the time, yet growing constantly , I stopped putting anymore infusoria and used some 'dust' from the Tubifex container's wall, and a few drops of raw egg yolk-water mixture. They don't seem okey. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32386	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

Amber, if you go to my blog and look at the article on "Find your tap/source water baseline", at the bottom of that article, you'll see a link to the EPA page that will lead you to your local water reports.. if available online. Many more are being done this way. If it's not online, then you could call your local water utility and they would tell you where you can find it or mail it out to you. As \\Steve// mentioned in an earlier reply, the boiler is probably not the source of your cold tap water but it might supply the hot tap water if your separate units do not have their own hot water heaters. Do the 48 hour tap water baseline testing on a gallon of your cold water versus a gallon of your hot water. Usually the cold water is better for fish but who knows in your case. They could be adding buffers to the boiler system to raise the pH so the low pH water does not corrode the pipes and plumbing so the hot water could have a higher pH and KH. If your water really is as soft and low pH as you are thinking... do you have a KH (Carbonate Hardness) test on the strips or just GH (General Hardness), it might not be a bad idea to at least raise the KH level in the water. Let us know if you have a KH test kit. An inexpensive way to raise the KH level is to dose the water with baking soda. Of course, you would have to do this slowly to give the fish a chance to acclimate to the change in KH. KH is important to aquariums as life forms on Earth are carbon based. This site has a calculator on how much Baking Soda to add to raise the KH level. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp And make sure the baking soda is just "pure" baking soda and doesn't have any additives in it. I use the store brand comparable to Arm & Hammer brand. A 1 lb. box lasts me a LONG time. And yes.. thanks to your now famous Governor, Sarah Palin (YEAH SARAH!!!), Alaska is more a part of the US than it has ever been in the past. Just like Louisiana, Alaska has been mostly ignored by a majority of the population.. unless we decided to cut off our oil and gas supplies.. then they'd love us again and want us back. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) \\Steve// , Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the boiler heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I don't know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that occasionally they send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but not sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't readily available to the public, but I would assume that water quality should be posted somewhere here in town). I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of city limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I used a test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 2:33:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32387	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: CAE

Hi, Don't Chinese Alge Eaters eat hair algae? I have a rock and a driftwood covered with hair algae and my 3" golden CAE doesn't come near them unless I cut off the algae by hand. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32388	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fry-update

Angelfish are hardy fish adapting to many different water qualities, even breeding, however fry need to be in excellent quality. Not criticizing! Maybe your fry were just weak, Angelfish have been inbred for many years and over those years the strains have become weaker, so I would suggest try breeding them again. This time breed the pair in the breeding tank intended for raising the fry so they don't have to be moved. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi > My Angel fry are 8 days old now, I remind you that I'm a first timer, only a few could be saved from the community tank. I lost a few more when I first added the infusoria! (only 20 ml for half a gallon of tank water), what could have caused their death? > The rest are lying on their side all the time, yet growing constantly , I stopped putting anymore infusoria and used some 'dust' from the Tubifex container's wall, and a few drops of raw egg yolk- water mixture. > They don't seem okey. > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32389	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Yes, this is the filter I have, and the filter cartridge is the one with the blue trim and the tiny X. http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?sku=1083791 The frame is a square witha big X, over that is the padding, but the X holds bits of carbon in each V shape. (Is this greek or what?). So that It's not just a convenient pouch, but four little V-shaped pouches inside. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know which > filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several varieties > depending on the filter system model. > http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.aspx > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to slice > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic frame > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You could add > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many others) > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the floss > pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter cleaning > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter cartridge good, > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount of > surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. If you > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could put that > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as bio-balls > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as much > surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked the tank > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult fancy > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked... at > least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel every week > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give me much > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first stage in > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a smaller pore > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss pads and > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. This > keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and it keeps > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff that the > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning it > every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, detritus > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your email and I > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the filter > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz and > Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly girl".. > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter cartridge from a > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a minute or > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > Hi, > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at Lenny's blog, > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite see how I > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't look like > that . > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an "X" in > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, at every > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start fiddling with > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might accidentally > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a lot of > cuts in the media. > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie thing > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and replaced > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I paid for > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the tank and > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought of a PWC > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about how I'm > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can spare > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet another > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And can I > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter altogether? And > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to change out > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If so how > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to attach a > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > Alina > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > Tested on: 11/3/2008 10:16:24 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 2:14:48 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32390	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Ahhh, in my best "Hanz and Franz" immitation: Who are you calling a girly-girl?!!! I have cleaned runny baby poop, in confined spaces like the bacteriological cesspool of an airplane bathroom. It's not the yuck factor. It's the "I'm-going-to-kill-my-good-bacteria" factor. LOL.....and wait, it's all your fault. You guys gave me a bacteria complex after I threw out my media the last time!! :-) Go to photo album called Alina's Place; I put two pix of my filter cartridge (an unused one). Moderator must approve them first, but I'm hoping they pop up shortly. It's important to note that under the cloth there is the X skeleton, even tho all you see is the little X in the center. Let's see, I am not overstocked. I have about 10 fish, 2 snails in a 38 gal. Tiny little community fishes like Tetras, Corys, Mollys, guppies and platys. My levels have been awesome, and the fish are all doing nicely. Hence why I don't want to ruin a good thing!!! Thanks --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know which > filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several varieties > depending on the filter system model. > http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.aspx > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to slice > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic frame > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You could add > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many others) > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the floss > pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter cleaning > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter cartridge good, > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount of > surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. If you > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could put that > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as bio-balls > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as much > surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked the tank > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult fancy > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked... at > least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel every week > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give me much > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first stage in > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a smaller pore > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss pads and > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. This > keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and it keeps > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff that the > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning it > every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, detritus > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your email and I > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the filter > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz and > Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly girl".. > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter cartridge from a > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a minute or > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > Hi, > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at Lenny's blog, > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite see how I > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't look like > that . > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an "X" in > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, at every > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start fiddling with > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might accidentally > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a lot of > cuts in the media. > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie thing > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and replaced > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I paid for > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the tank and > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought of a PWC > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about how I'm > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can spare > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet another > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And can I > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter altogether? And > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to change out > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If so how > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to attach a > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > Alina > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > Tested on: 11/3/2008 10:16:24 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 2:14:48 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32391	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: CAE

This is a jekyll and hyde situation for you, first CAE's are not really algae eaters they are more like suckermouth loaches. They get to the point they eat mostly fish food. Secondly most fish dont eat hair algae, maybe bristle nose plecos or SAE's (not Flying foxes) but thats about it, and even then they may only snack on it not clean it out. But, to directly answer your question no. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi, > Don't Chinese Alge Eaters eat hair algae? I have a rock and a driftwood covered with hair algae and my 3" golden CAE doesn't come near them unless I cut off the algae by hand. > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32392	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fry-update

By the Angel fry being "8 days old" I'm not sure if that should be taken as when they were first deposited as eggs, or whether this means from the time they hatched (or is it from the time they free- swam?). Your description of infusoria would help too, if you could tell us how it was made and what it looked like. I did recommend to you (in my message of 9/24) the best way to make this for most nutrition, as I understand your not being able to get brine shrimp eggs in your area. Still, its possible that while they will feed on a good infusoria culture, including rotifers, your infusoria may not have developed as was needed. I don't understand your reference to a "half gallon of tank water." How many gallons of tank water do you have the fry in? I do note your using a raw egg yolk - water mixture. This will only serve to start a bacteria culture, depleting the water of oxygen as it blooms. Whenever using egg yolk, this should be hard-boiled, then squeezed through a muslin handkerchief and used sparingly, with the remainder being stored in the refrigerator (also covered this in my message to you on 9/24). It should be observed that the fry eat this. If they don't (although they should), it will help towards creating infusoria but may also create bacteria. Snails will not only keep the bottom clean of any excess egg yolk, but their droppings are the absolute best in food for creating infusoria. That the rest are growing indicates that they are eating, although I still don't know what size container they are in. For them to be lying on their sides indicates one of two things; either the strain is weak (as has been mentioned) or you started feeding the fry before they all became free-swimming and were able to fill their air bladders. This latter scenario will result in "belly-sliders" which will never develop into normally swimming fry. Tell us more about your procedures with these preceding points in mind. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > Angelfish are hardy fish adapting to many different water qualities, > even breeding, however fry need to be in excellent quality. Not > criticizing! Maybe your fry were just weak, Angelfish have been > inbred for many years and over those years the strains have become > weaker, so I would suggest try breeding them again. This time breed > the pair in the breeding tank intended for raising the fry so they > don't have to be moved. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > Hi > > My Angel fry are 8 days old now, I remind you that I'm a first > timer, only a few could be saved from the community tank. I lost a > few more when I first added the infusoria! (only 20 ml for half a > gallon of tank water), what could have caused their death? > > The rest are lying on their side all the time, yet growing > constantly , I stopped putting anymore infusoria and used some 'dust' > from the Tubifex container's wall, and a few drops of raw egg yolk- > water mixture. > > They don't seem okey. > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32393	From: bill1433	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

I don�t want to get in the middle of things or confuse you further but if adding bio-balls or any capturing extra device for increasing active bacteria I think I know of a very simple thing that might help you� and certainly speed things along. � This just came to me while doing my �Mr. Mom� stuff this morning.� Why not use a nylon ladies lingerie bag of the type used for hosiery or lingerie in a washing machine?� These bags are very sturdy, easy to clean and come in a wide variety of sizes and are relatively cheap and above all else, are almost indestructible.� Load them up with the filter media of your choice and you�re off to the races.� Considering a carbon bit additive?� I notice from my wife�s collection of these bags that the size of the mesh itself will also vary allowing you to put almost anything in there.� Time for a change remove only one element at a time for cleaning to insure proper balance and good growth of your bacteria without disturbing it too much. � Hope I helped a bit? � Bill --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: From: Alina <alambiet@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 8:14 AM Yes, this is the filter I have, and the filter cartridge is the one with the blue trim and the tiny X. http://www.petco. com/Shop/ Product.aspx? sku=1083791 The frame is a square witha big X, over that is the padding, but the X holds bits of carbon in each V shape. (Is this greek or what?). So that It's not just a convenient pouch, but four little V-shaped pouches inside. Alina --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know which > filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several varieties > depending on the filter system model. > http://www.petco. com/product/ 102601/Aqueon- Aquarium- Power-Filters. aspx > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to slice > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic frame > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You could add > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many others) > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the floss > pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter cleaning > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter cartridge good, > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount of > surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. If you > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could put that > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as bio-balls > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as much > surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked the tank > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult fancy > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked. .. at > least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel every week > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give me much > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first stage in > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a smaller pore > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss pads and > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. This > keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and it keeps > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff that the > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning it > every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, detritus > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your email and I > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the filter > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz and > Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly girl".. > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter cartridge from a > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a minute or > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > Hi, > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at Lenny's blog, > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite see how I > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't look like > that . > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an "X" in > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, at every > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start fiddling with > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might accidentally > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a lot of > cuts in the media. > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie thing > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and replaced > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I paid for > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the tank and > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought of a PWC > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about how I'm > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can spare > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet another > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And can I > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter altogether? And > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to change out > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If so how > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to attach a > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > Alina > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > Tested on: 11/3/2008 10:16:24 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 2:14:48 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

I see the little blue X in the middle of the cartridge but I don't see the BIG X you are talking about. Is the BIX X inside the cartridge between the two sides of filter floss pads? It only looks like it's sealed together where the little X is located so the carbon should still dump out of one slit on the top. If it is sealed into four sections, that just means your filter company sucks.. lol.. so they are making the filters so you can't reuse them. I noticed a recent Rena HOB has a new square cartridge that fits in the top of the HOB http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752393 so they are trying to prevent folks from being able to reuse the filter cartridge as well. I looked over your uploaded photos and I see the tab at the top of the filter has "Front" on one side. Since that side should be facing into the tank, I would cut the top of the filter floss, right below the frame, up to maybe an inch below the frame, on the "Back" side of the cartridge. Then dump the carbon out and you can just place that right back into the cartridge slot and you're good to go and since that shouldn't take more than a few minutes so your good N-bacteria will not be harmed. This would also be a good time to swish the filter cartridge in a bucked of removed tank water and you can even use your fingers (or a sponge used only for the fish tanks) to lightly scrub both sides of the filter floss to remove any excess detritus from the cartridge. Then reinstall and you shouldn't have a mini-cycle since you will have saved the majority of your good N-bacteria using this method. As I stated in a previous reply, if you decided to put some bio-balls in the filter cartridge (after dumping the old carbon), you could just add them into the cartridge via the slit in the back of the floss pad. This way, you could remove the bio-balls into a cup of tank water and clean the filter even more in the future and then put the bio-balls back into the cartridge which would save the majority of your N-bacteria. Another thing you could do is get a separate filter media bag of bio-balls or a sponge block and put that in the reservoir of your filter so the dirty water first has to pass through the sponge block before it goes through your filter cartridge. The sponge would catch the big stuff and provide a lot of surface area for more N-bacteria and keep the cartridge from getting clogged as quickly if it's clogging up before your scheduled weekly maintenance. The sponge is also easier to clean in your bucket of removed tank water. Just put the sponge in the bucket, squeeze it a few times and it's good to go. I came across this DIY article where someone modifies their AquaClear filter but this will give you some more ideas on how the sponge blocks are used. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/power_filter_tricks_iii.php Here are the two foam blocks used in my Rena Filstar Canister filter http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/199473/product.web (20 pores per inch) http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/199476/product.web (30 pores per inch) Either of these could likely be trimmed to fit snugly in your reservoir and would provide additional mechanical filtration and biological filtration. Here's another site with these Rena canister filter products - http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3622 Here are the AquaClear Filter brand sponge blocks. You'd have to compare your Aqueon Filter reservoir to the AquaClear filter reservoirs to see which size would be best if you decided to buy the pre-cut sponge blocks. http://www.petmountain.com/product/foam-sponges/512933/aquaclear-aquaclear-f oam-inserts-20%2C-30%2C-50%2C-70%2C-110-.html The moral of this story is if your Aqueon or any other brand breaks down, replace it with an AquaClear HOB of one of the many canister filters that give you user options for filter media. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears Yes, this is the filter I have, and the filter cartridge is the one with the blue trim and the tiny X. http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?sku=1083791 <http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?sku=1083791> The frame is a square witha big X, over that is the padding, but the X holds bits of carbon in each V shape. (Is this greek or what?). So that It's not just a convenient pouch, but four little V-shaped pouches inside. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know > which filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several > varieties depending on the filter system model. > http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.aspx > <http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.asp > x> > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to slice > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic frame > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You could add > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many others) > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the > floss pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter cleaning > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter cartridge good, > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount > of surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. If you > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could put that > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as bio-balls > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as > much surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked the tank > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult fancy > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked... > at least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel > every week > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give me much > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first stage in > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a smaller pore > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss pads and > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. > This keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and > it keeps > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff that the > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning > it every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, detritus > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your email and I > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the filter > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz > and Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly girl".. > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter cartridge from a > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a minute or > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > Hi, > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at Lenny's blog, > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite see how I > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't look like > that . > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an "X" in > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, at every > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start fiddling with > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might accidentally > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a lot of > cuts in the media. > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie thing > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and replaced > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I paid for > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the tank and > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought of a PWC > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about how I'm > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can spare > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet another > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And can I > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter altogether? And > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to change out > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If so how > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to attach a > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > Alina > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:43:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32395	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Oops.. I think I answered most of this in my previous reply. It's good to see you're not a "girly-girl". LOL Sorry for giving you the "bacteria complex"... sounds like an STD.. LOL I swear I don't' have it so it's not my fault. LOL The cartridge will be fine laying on a clean plate while you do the surgery on it.. if you are able to. See my previous reply a few minutes ago. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears Ahhh, in my best "Hanz and Franz" immitation: Who are you calling a girly-girl?!!! I have cleaned runny baby poop, in confined spaces like the bacteriological cesspool of an airplane bathroom. It's not the yuck factor. It's the "I'm-going-to-kill-my-good-bacteria" factor. LOL.....and wait, it's all your fault. You guys gave me a bacteria complex after I threw out my media the last time!! :-) Go to photo album called Alina's Place; I put two pix of my filter cartridge (an unused one). Moderator must approve them first, but I'm hoping they pop up shortly. It's important to note that under the cloth there is the X skeleton, even tho all you see is the little X in the center. Let's see, I am not overstocked. I have about 10 fish, 2 snails in a 38 gal. Tiny little community fishes like Tetras, Corys, Mollys, guppies and platys. My levels have been awesome, and the fish are all doing nicely. Hence why I don't want to ruin a good thing!!! Thanks --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know > which filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several > varieties depending on the filter system model. > http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.aspx > <http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.asp > x> > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to slice > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic frame > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You could add > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many others) > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the > floss pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter cleaning > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter cartridge good, > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount > of surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. If you > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could put that > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as bio-balls > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as > much surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked the tank > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult fancy > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked... > at least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel > every week > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give me much > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first stage in > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a smaller pore > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss pads and > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. > This keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and > it keeps > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff that the > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning > it every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, detritus > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your email and I > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the filter > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz > and Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly girl".. > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter cartridge from a > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a minute or > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > Hi, > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at Lenny's blog, > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite see how I > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't look like > that . > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an "X" in > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, at every > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start fiddling with > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might accidentally > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a lot of > cuts in the media. > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie thing > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and replaced > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I paid for > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the tank and > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought of a PWC > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about how I'm > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can spare > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet another > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And can I > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter altogether? And > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to change out > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If so how > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to attach a > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > Alina > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:47:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32396	From: bill1433	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Yo Len?

Good Morning buddy, � I am posting this question here as it may be a benefit to all in the group building their own aquarium stands, especially those tackling this project for the first time. � On your site marked:� http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/my-diy-2000-big-tank-stand.html � The pictures are great but I have one question that is not mentioned in your text. � Did you use any adhesives like liquid nails or carpenters glue on this project? � when you have the time, and remember����������������.. �If two people know something it might just be secret������������. but if three people know it, it�s probably a conspiracy! � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32397	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta

My beta was actually in my 55 gallon tank (which has way more filtration than the 10 gallon does), so he's actually in a slower moving tank than before, but he was acting this way only a couple of days before I moved him. I thought he might have been getting picked on by my gang of danio's, but he's still acting the same now that I moved him into a smaller tank. I normally feed him high quality flake food (made from real fish in Alaska, good stuff), and freeze dried bloodworms (just a small amount of each was put into the 55 gallon 2/3 times a day depending on how the fish were acting, I was feeding according to the instructions on the food containers). Basically I would give a couple minutes worth of food to the whole tank, and he was eating just fine up until last week. He has always been very active, especially with my male dwarf gouramie's (something about their coloring seems to set him off, and he would display in all his glory for my gouramie's, hehe). I knew that the best food for him is supposedly bloodworms from what I have read places online, so I was adding it to the tank with the rest of the fish as well. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Yo Len?

Nope. No liquid nails or anything permanent. Just the 3" deck screws. I wanted the option to break down this stand since I was also planning a large built in bookcase and cabinets with twelve feet of tanks or an 8' and the 4' tank or three 4' tanks. I didn't want to have to trash that stand so I just did the screws so I could disassemble it and put it in storage if needed in the future. That is also why I used the extra corner 2x4 braces and the diagonal brace in the back is very important to keep the stand from going out of "square". But if you look at the design, the frame is designed to have all of the tanks weight distributed on a minimum amount of pounds per square inch and to distribute the weight over as much floor space as possible. Originally, I had that tank and stand on the 2nd floor along a load bearing wall so I wanted the stand to run perpendicular over three of the floor joists that were sitting on top of a load bearing wall to minimize any chance of floor sage or the stand/tank leaning away from the wall. My plan worked perfection and the stand/tank did not lean away from the wall at all. Since the entire tank and stand would weigh around 700 pounds, I built the stand so there was the bottom rectangle and a top rectangle (frame sections) supported by the six uprights (four corners and two center uprights) so all of the weight got displaced across the entire bottom rectangle (rather than just four to six legs. This lowered the pounds per square inch to a 700 pounds per 200 square inches or only 3.5 pounds per square inch which is way below the building code standard of 70 pounds per square inch. This made it less than the weight exerted by a big guy (not you Bill.. lol) standing on one foot. If I had designed it with only four or six legs touching the floor, rather than the entire rectangular frame section, the pounds per square inch would have went up to 700 pounds on around 30 square inches or 23 pounds per square inch.. still under building code recommendations but it's always better to be safe than sorry. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:48 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Yo Len? Good Morning buddy, I am posting this question here as it may be a benefit to all in the group building their own aquarium stands, especially those tackling this project for the first time. On your site marked: http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/my-diy-2000-big-tank-stand.html The pictures are great but I have one question that is not mentioned in your text. Did you use any adhesives like liquid nails or carpenters glue on this project? when you have the time, and remember.................. "If two people know something it might just be secret............. but if three people know it, it's probably a conspiracy! Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:11:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32399	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta

From all I've read in many forum posts over the years, the freeze dried bloodworms seem to be a leading cause of constipation. Some folks would soak the dried bloodworms in a spoonful of removed tank water for a few minutes to give them a chance to rehydrate before feeding. When I had my Katrina-rescued Betta, I fed him little bitty pellets that came with him but he also came with some freeze dried bloodworms. He wouldn't eat the bloodworms even after they were in the water for a while but he liked the little pellets. I'm not sure if you know it but bloodworms are actually mosquito larvae... which would be one of their natural foods since in the wild, Bettas are very common in the rice patties of SE Asia and I'm guessing mosquitoes are also common in those areas and they also love to lay their eggs in still waters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta. My beta was actually in my 55 gallon tank (which has way more filtration than the 10 gallon does), so he's actually in a slower moving tank than before, but he was acting this way only a couple of days before I moved him. I thought he might have been getting picked on by my gang of danio's, but he's still acting the same now that I moved him into a smaller tank. I normally feed him high quality flake food (made from real fish in Alaska, good stuff), and freeze dried bloodworms (just a small amount of each was put into the 55 gallon 2/3 times a day depending on how the fish were acting, I was feeding according to the instructions on the food containers). Basically I would give a couple minutes worth of food to the whole tank, and he was eating just fine up until last week. He has always been very active, especially with my male dwarf gouramie's (something about their coloring seems to set him off, and he would display in all his glory for my gouramie's, hehe). I knew that the best food for him is supposedly bloodworms from what I have read places online, so I was adding it to the tank with the rest of the fish as well. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:18:16 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32400	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Yes, indeed. Perhaps. But how would one get that to fit in inside the canister? Would it muck things up (like the flow of water)? For example, once when I made the terrible mistake of adding ammo chips to the filter, I used a bag with the chips inside, and I placed it in the back flow of the filter. Is that how I might do this? A --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > I don't want to get in the middle of things or confuse you further > but if adding bio-balls or any capturing extra device for increasing > active bacteria I think I know of a very simple thing that might help > you and certainly speed things along. > > This just came to me while doing my "Mr. Mom" stuff this morning. Why not use a nylon ladies lingerie bag of the type used for hosiery or lingerie in a washing machine? These bags are very sturdy, easy to clean and come in a wide variety of sizes and are relatively cheap and above all else, are almost indestructible. Load them up with the filter media of your choice and you're off to the races. Considering a carbon bit additive? I notice from my wife's collection of these bags that the size of the mesh itself will also vary allowing you to put almost anything in there. Time for a change remove only one element at a time for cleaning to insure proper balance and good growth of your bacteria without disturbing it too much. > > Hope I helped a bit? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: > > From: Alina <alambiet@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 8:14 AM > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is the filter I have, and the filter cartridge is the one > with the blue trim and the tiny X. > > http://www.petco. com/Shop/ Product.aspx? sku=1083791 > > The frame is a square witha big X, over that is the padding, but the X > holds bits of carbon in each V shape. (Is this greek or what?). So > that It's not just a convenient pouch, but four little V-shaped > pouches inside. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know which > > filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several varieties > > depending on the filter system model. > > http://www.petco. com/product/ 102601/Aqueon- Aquarium- Power-Filters. aspx > > > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to > slice > > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic > frame > > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You > could add > > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many > others) > > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the floss > > pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter > cleaning > > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter > cartridge good, > > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount of > > surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. > If you > > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could > put that > > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as > bio-balls > > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as much > > surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked > the tank > > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult > fancy > > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked. .. at > > least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel every > week > > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give > me much > > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first > stage in > > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a > smaller pore > > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss > pads and > > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. This > > keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and it > keeps > > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff > that the > > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning it > > every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, > detritus > > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your > email and I > > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the > filter > > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz and > > Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly > girl".. > > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter > cartridge from a > > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a > minute or > > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at > Lenny's blog, > > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite > see how I > > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't > look like > > that . > > > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an > "X" in > > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, > at every > > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start > fiddling with > > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might > accidentally > > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a > lot of > > cuts in the media. > > > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie > thing > > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and > replaced > > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I > paid for > > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the > tank and > > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought > of a PWC > > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about > how I'm > > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can > spare > > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet > another > > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And > can I > > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter > altogether? And > > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to > change out > > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If > so how > > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to > attach a > > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > > Tested on: 11/3/2008 10:16:24 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > > Tested on: 11/4/2008 2:14:48 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32401	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Lenny, That is exactly right. There is an X skeleton inside the filter floss pads so yes, it's a sucky system. It came prepackaged with my tank. But the filter works great so far, and I really don't get that much detritus in there, mostly just bacteria and some dirt. It's a young tank, with few plantings and such, so I don't have a lot of funk yet. Gotta look over all of these, but I'll try. How much carbon should I use (if I don't do the bio balls? ). Thanks Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I see the little blue X in the middle of the cartridge but I don't see the > BIG X you are talking about. Is the BIX X inside the cartridge between the > two sides of filter floss pads? It only looks like it's sealed together > where the little X is located so the carbon should still dump out of one > slit on the top. If it is sealed into four sections, that just means your > filter company sucks.. lol.. so they are making the filters so you can't > reuse them. I noticed a recent Rena HOB has a new square cartridge that > fits in the top of the HOB > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752393 so they are > trying to prevent folks from being able to reuse the filter cartridge as > well. > > I looked over your uploaded photos and I see the tab at the top of the > filter has "Front" on one side. Since that side should be facing into the > tank, I would cut the top of the filter floss, right below the frame, up to > maybe an inch below the frame, on the "Back" side of the cartridge. Then > dump the carbon out and you can just place that right back into the > cartridge slot and you're good to go and since that shouldn't take more than > a few minutes so your good N-bacteria will not be harmed. This would also > be a good time to swish the filter cartridge in a bucked of removed tank > water and you can even use your fingers (or a sponge used only for the fish > tanks) to lightly scrub both sides of the filter floss to remove any excess > detritus from the cartridge. Then reinstall and you shouldn't have a > mini-cycle since you will have saved the majority of your good N-bacteria > using this method. > > As I stated in a previous reply, if you decided to put some bio-balls in the > filter cartridge (after dumping the old carbon), you could just add them > into the cartridge via the slit in the back of the floss pad. > > This way, you could remove the bio-balls into a cup of tank water and clean > the filter even more in the future and then put the bio-balls back into the > cartridge which would save the majority of your N-bacteria. > > Another thing you could do is get a separate filter media bag of bio-balls > or a sponge block and put that in the reservoir of your filter so the dirty > water first has to pass through the sponge block before it goes through your > filter cartridge. The sponge would catch the big stuff and provide a lot of > surface area for more N-bacteria and keep the cartridge from getting clogged > as quickly if it's clogging up before your scheduled weekly maintenance. > The sponge is also easier to clean in your bucket of removed tank water. > Just put the sponge in the bucket, squeeze it a few times and it's good to > go. > > I came across this DIY article where someone modifies their AquaClear filter > but this will give you some more ideas on how the sponge blocks are used. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/power_filter_tricks_iii.php > > Here are the two foam blocks used in my Rena Filstar Canister filter > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/199473/product.web (20 pores per inch) > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/199476/product.web (30 pores per inch) > Either of these could likely be trimmed to fit snugly in your reservoir and > would provide additional mechanical filtration and biological filtration. > > Here's another site with these Rena canister filter products - > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3622 > > Here are the AquaClear Filter brand sponge blocks. You'd have to compare > your Aqueon Filter reservoir to the AquaClear filter reservoirs to see which > size would be best if you decided to buy the pre-cut sponge blocks. > http://www.petmountain.com/product/foam-sponges/512933/aquaclear-aquaclear-f > oam-inserts-20%2C-30%2C-50%2C-70%2C-110-.html > > The moral of this story is if your Aqueon or any other brand breaks down, > replace it with an AquaClear HOB of one of the many canister filters that > give you user options for filter media. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > > Yes, this is the filter I have, and the filter cartridge is the one with the > blue trim and the tiny X. > > http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?sku=1083791 > <http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?sku=1083791> > > The frame is a square witha big X, over that is the padding, but the X holds > bits of carbon in each V shape. (Is this greek or what?). So that It's not > just a convenient pouch, but four little V-shaped pouches inside. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know > > which filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several > > varieties depending on the filter system model. > > http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.aspx > > <http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.asp > > x> > > > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to > slice > > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic > frame > > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You > could add > > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many > others) > > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the > > floss pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter > cleaning > > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter > cartridge good, > > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount > > of surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. > If you > > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could > put that > > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as > bio-balls > > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as > > much surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked > the tank > > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult > fancy > > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked... > > at least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel > > every > week > > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give > me much > > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first > stage in > > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a > smaller pore > > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss > pads and > > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. > > This keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and > > it > keeps > > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff > that the > > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning > > it every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, > detritus > > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your > email and I > > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the > filter > > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz > > and Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly > girl".. > > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter > cartridge from a > > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a > minute or > > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at > Lenny's blog, > > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite > see how I > > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't > look like > > that . > > > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an > "X" in > > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, > at every > > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start > fiddling with > > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might > accidentally > > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a > lot of > > cuts in the media. > > > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie > thing > > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and > replaced > > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I > paid for > > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the > tank and > > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought > of a PWC > > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about > how I'm > > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can > spare > > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet > another > > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And > can I > > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter > altogether? And > > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to > change out > > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If > so how > > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to > attach a > > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:43:51 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32402	From: bill1433	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Yo Len?

10 ---Roger!  I got it.   BUT.............................I don't know about the standing on the one foot part!   Thanks,   Bill --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Yo Len? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 11:11 AM Nope. No liquid nails or anything permanent. Just the 3" deck screws. I wanted the option to break down this stand since I was also planning a large built in bookcase and cabinets with twelve feet of tanks or an 8' and the 4' tank or three 4' tanks. I didn't want to have to trash that stand so I just did the screws so I could disassemble it and put it in storage if needed in the future. That is also why I used the extra corner 2x4 braces and the diagonal brace in the back is very important to keep the stand from going out of "square". But if you look at the design, the frame is designed to have all of the tanks weight distributed on a minimum amount of pounds per square inch and to distribute the weight over as much floor space as possible. Originally, I had that tank and stand on the 2nd floor along a load bearing wall so I wanted the stand to run perpendicular over three of the floor joists that were sitting on top of a load bearing wall to minimize any chance of floor sage or the stand/tank leaning away from the wall. My plan worked perfection and the stand/tank did not lean away from the wall at all.. Since the entire tank and stand would weigh around 700 pounds, I built the stand so there was the bottom rectangle and a top rectangle (frame sections) supported by the six uprights (four corners and two center uprights) so all of the weight got displaced across the entire bottom rectangle (rather than just four to six legs. This lowered the pounds per square inch to a 700 pounds per 200 square inches or only 3.5 pounds per square inch which is way below the building code standard of 70 pounds per square inch. This made it less than the weight exerted by a big guy (not you Bill.. lol) standing on one foot. If I had designed it with only four or six legs touching the floor, rather than the entire rectangular frame section, the pounds per square inch would have went up to 700 pounds on around 30 square inches or 23 pounds per square inch.. still under building code recommendations but it's always better to be safe than sorry. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:48 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Yo Len? Good Morning buddy, I am posting this question here as it may be a benefit to all in the group building their own aquarium stands, especially those tackling this project for the first time. On your site marked: http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2007/ 03/my-diy- 2000-big- tank-stand. html The pictures are great but I have one question that is not mentioned in your text. Did you use any adhesives like liquid nails or carpenters glue on this project? when you have the time, and remember.... ......... ..... "If two people know something it might just be secret...... ....... but if three people know it, it's probably a conspiracy! Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:11:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32403	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Nah, you're in the clear...It was Pet Smart that gave me what I call Tank VD. Snails, followed by horrid spikes, followed by sick fish! LOL. You just gave me phobias!!!LOL. Thanks for all the info. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oops.. I think I answered most of this in my previous reply. It's good to > see you're not a "girly-girl". LOL > > Sorry for giving you the "bacteria complex"... sounds like an STD.. LOL I > swear I don't' have it so it's not my fault. LOL > > The cartridge will be fine laying on a clean plate while you do the surgery > on it.. if you are able to. See my previous reply a few minutes ago. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:09 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > Ahhh, in my best "Hanz and Franz" immitation: Who are you calling a > girly-girl?!!! > > I have cleaned runny baby poop, in confined spaces like the bacteriological > cesspool of an airplane bathroom. It's not the yuck factor. It's the > "I'm-going-to-kill-my-good-bacteria" factor. > LOL.....and wait, it's all your fault. You guys gave me a bacteria complex > after I threw out my media the last time!! :-) > > Go to photo album called Alina's Place; I put two pix of my filter cartridge > (an unused one). Moderator must approve them first, but I'm hoping they pop > up shortly. It's important to note that under the cloth there is the X > skeleton, even tho all you see is the little X in the center. > > Let's see, I am not overstocked. I have about 10 fish, 2 snails in a > 38 gal. Tiny little community fishes like Tetras, Corys, Mollys, guppies and > platys. My levels have been awesome, and the fish are all doing nicely. > Hence why I don't want to ruin a good thing!!! > > Thanks > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know > > which filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several > > varieties depending on the filter system model. > > http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.aspx > > <http://www.petco.com/product/102601/Aqueon-Aquarium-Power-Filters.asp > > x> > > > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to > slice > > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic > frame > > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You > could add > > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many > others) > > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the > > floss pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter > cleaning > > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter > cartridge good, > > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount > > of surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. > If you > > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could > put that > > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as > bio-balls > > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as > > much surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked > the tank > > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult > fancy > > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked... > > at least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel > > every > week > > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give > me much > > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first > stage in > > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a > smaller pore > > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss > pads and > > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. > > This keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and > > it > keeps > > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff > that the > > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning > > it every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, > detritus > > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your > email and I > > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the > filter > > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz > > and Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly > girl".. > > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter > cartridge from a > > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a > minute or > > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at > Lenny's blog, > > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite > see how I > > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't > look like > > that . > > > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an > "X" in > > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, > at every > > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start > fiddling with > > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might > accidentally > > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a > lot of > > cuts in the media. > > > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie > thing > > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and > replaced > > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I > paid for > > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the > tank and > > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought > of a PWC > > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about > how I'm > > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can > spare > > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet > another > > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And > can I > > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter > altogether? And > > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to > change out > > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If > so how > > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to > attach a > > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > > > Alina > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:47:50 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32404	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

They actually sell refillable "media bags" that are designed in different sizes to hold media like bio-balls, carbon, etc. Since your filter cartridge design seems like it might be difficult to add and remove media as wanted, you might be best to just remove the carbon or just leave it alone... realizing it will no longer suck up any impurities after a few weeks but it will still provide a base for additional N-bacteria to grow. If a filter design allows it, it's best to put the bio-balls, carbon, etc. as the final stage of filtration so the water that has already been filtered through the sponges, floss, etc., is then passing over the carbon or bio-balls. I know this isn't usually possible with most HOB's since they have it set up for the cartridge to slide in as the last stage of filtration. One of my HOB's, the Marineland Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel, has slots for two cartridges so I could actually run two stages of cartridges in that one but the smaller HOB's do not have this feature. If you wanted to run fresh carbon or bio-balls, you could fill up a media bag and then drop this bag in your filter reservoir or clip it to the top of the filter cartridge so the water has to flow over/through it. If the media bag will fit on the "Front" side of the cartridge, this would be even better so the media bag would not get clogged up with detritus and only filter water would flow through this final filtration stage. This is another good design feature of the AquaClear brand. As the water gets sucked into the reservoir, it has to start off at the bottom and flow up through the sponge blocks before it then passes through the cartridge with the floss pad.. so the sponge blocks catch most of the big stuff that would clog up the floss pads more quickly. For the most part, in a properly stocked and maintained tank (weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming, filter maintenance, etc.), neither the carbon or bio-balls are even needed. I do use Purigen (an advanced chemical filtration media 10X's more effective than carbon and can be cleaned when needed) in my Goldfish tank to keep the DOC's down to a minimum between maintenance, but I haven't used carbon in any of my tanks for years except for when I need to remove a medication or some other emergency like a guest spraying air freshener or some other contamination. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears Yes, indeed. Perhaps. But how would one get that to fit in inside the canister? Would it muck things up (like the flow of water)? For example, once when I made the terrible mistake of adding ammo chips to the filter, I used a bag with the chips inside, and I placed it in the back flow of the filter. Is that how I might do this? A --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > I don't want to get in the middle of things or confuse you further but > if adding bio-balls or any capturing extra device for increasing > active bacteria I think I know of a very simple thing that might help > you and certainly speed things along. > > This just came to me while doing my "Mr. Mom" stuff this morning. Why not use a nylon ladies lingerie bag of the type used for hosiery or lingerie in a washing machine? These bags are very sturdy, easy to clean and come in a wide variety of sizes and are relatively cheap and above all else, are almost indestructible. Load them up with the filter media of your choice and you're off to the races. Considering a carbon bit additive? I notice from my wife's collection of these bags that the size of the mesh itself will also vary allowing you to put almost anything in there. Time for a change remove only one element at a time for cleaning to insure proper balance and good growth of your bacteria without disturbing it too much. > > Hope I helped a bit? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: > > From: Alina <alambiet@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 8:14 AM > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is the filter I have, and the filter cartridge is the one > with the blue trim and the tiny X. > > http://www.petco. com/Shop/ Product.aspx? sku=1083791 > > The frame is a square witha big X, over that is the padding, but the X > holds bits of carbon in each V shape. (Is this greek or what?). So > that It's not just a convenient pouch, but four little V-shaped > pouches inside. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know which > > filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several varieties > > depending on the filter system model. > > http://www.petco. com/product/ 102601/Aqueon- Aquarium- Power-Filters. aspx > > > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to > slice > > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic > frame > > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You > could add > > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many > others) > > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the floss > > pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter > cleaning > > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter > cartridge good, > > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount of > > surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. > If you > > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could > put that > > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as > bio-balls > > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as much > > surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked > the tank > > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give > > more surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two > > adult > fancy > > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked. .. at > > least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel every > week > > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give > me much > > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first > stage in > > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a > smaller pore > > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss > pads and > > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. This > > keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and it > keeps > > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff > that the > > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If > > I tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning it > > every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, > detritus > > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your > email and I > > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the > filter > > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz and > > Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly > girl".. > > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter > cartridge from a > > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a > minute or > > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at > Lenny's blog, > > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite > see how I > > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't > look like > > that . > > > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an > "X" in > > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, > at every > > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start > fiddling with > > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might > accidentally > > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a > lot of > > cuts in the media. > > > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie > thing > > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and > replaced > > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I > paid for > > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the > tank and > > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought > of a PWC > > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about > how I'm > > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can > spare > > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet > another > > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And > can I > > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter > altogether? And > > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to > change out > > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If > so how > > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to > attach a > > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > > > Alina > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:59:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32405	From: bill1433	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Sorry, � I missed the part about the canister filter. � Yes, the application COULD work provided that there was no interference from the filter/pumps mechanism. Such things as impeller clearance and so on must all be considered. � Most probably I dry run to check filter clearance would be most important. Not under power but by hand if possible.� You could quite easily burn your motor up if anything is restricting the normal flow of things in there.� Again, I apologize I did miss the �Canister Filter� part and was directing my remarks at the HOB type of power filters. � Bill --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: From: Alina <alambiet@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 11:17 AM Yes, indeed. Perhaps. But how would one get that to fit in inside the canister? Would it muck things up (like the flow of water)? For example, once when I made the terrible mistake of adding ammo chips to the filter, I used a bag with the chips inside, and I placed it in the back flow of the filter. Is that how I might do this? A --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > I don't want to get in the middle of things or confuse you further > but if adding bio-balls or any capturing extra device for increasing > active bacteria I think I know of a very simple thing that might help > you and certainly speed things along. > > This just came to me while doing my "Mr. Mom" stuff this morning. Why not use a nylon ladies lingerie bag of the type used for hosiery or lingerie in a washing machine? These bags are very sturdy, easy to clean and come in a wide variety of sizes and are relatively cheap and above all else, are almost indestructible. Load them up with the filter media of your choice and you're off to the races. Considering a carbon bit additive? I notice from my wife's collection of these bags that the size of the mesh itself will also vary allowing you to put almost anything in there. Time for a change remove only one element at a time for cleaning to insure proper balance and good growth of your bacteria without disturbing it too much. > > Hope I helped a bit? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Alina <alambiet@.. .> wrote: > > From: Alina <alambiet@.. .> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 8:14 AM > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is the filter I have, and the filter cartridge is the one > with the blue trim and the tiny X. > > http://www.petco. com/Shop/ Product.aspx? sku=1083791 > > The frame is a square witha big X, over that is the padding, but the X > holds bits of carbon in each V shape. (Is this greek or what?). So > that It's not just a convenient pouch, but four little V-shaped > pouches inside. > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know which > > filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several varieties > > depending on the filter system model. > > http://www.petco. com/product/ 102601/Aqueon- Aquarium- Power-Filters. aspx > > > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to > slice > > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic > frame > > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You > could add > > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many > others) > > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the floss > > pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter > cleaning > > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter > cartridge good, > > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount of > > surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. > If you > > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could > put that > > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as > bio-balls > > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as much > > surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked > the tank > > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult > fancy > > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked. ... at > > least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel every > week > > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give > me much > > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first > stage in > > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a > smaller pore > > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss > pads and > > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. This > > keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and it > keeps > > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff > that the > > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning it > > every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, > detritus > > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your > email and I > > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the > filter > > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz and > > Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly > girl".. > > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter > cartridge from a > > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a > minute or > > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at > Lenny's blog, > > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite > see how I > > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't > look like > > that . > > > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an > "X" in > > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, > at every > > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start > fiddling with > > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might > accidentally > > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a > lot of > > cuts in the media. > > > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie > thing > > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and > replaced > > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I > paid for > > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the > tank and > > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought > of a PWC > > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about > how I'm > > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can > spare > > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet > another > > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And > can I > > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter > altogether? And > > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to > change out > > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If > so how > > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to > attach a > > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > > Tested on: 11/3/2008 10:16:24 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > > Tested on: 11/4/2008 2:14:48 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32406	From: grammy1086	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Grammy, > > I moved your reply from down below my reply to above my previous reply. I > think most would agree that this is the preferred way to answer a reply. I > know it's kind of backwards to put the answer above the question but it > keeps things in chronological order from bottom to top. Also, there's a > chance someone might not scroll down to find your answer if you are > answering a long reply (such as mine tend to be.. lol). The reader might > think you hit the Send button before typing anything. If you have your > email client set up to start replies at the bottoms of emails, you might > want to manually change your ways when replying to group/forum emails. > Also, some emails from Yahoo will be truncated, that is, they will chop off > the bottom of the email so your reply could get chopped off. > > Anyhow, that said, have you ever tested your GH, KH, temperature and CO2 > levels throughout the seasons? I'm wondering if the lower pH isn't caused > by a higher CO2 level due to the warmer water during the summer? The 48 > hour baseline test would help determine the cause of the pH changes. I > would suspect they are not as far off as your right-out-the-tap tests might > have shown in the past. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > Please forgive me if this is in the wrong spot. I can never get it straight. Anyways, I did the nitrate test this morning (24hr. sample) there was just the slightest change in color but 0ppm just the same. Today is water change day . Should I try something different? Thank You Grammy. > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of grammy1086 > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > Good Afternoon, I have not kept charts but do test regularly, > seasonally. It is always lower in summer:6. range and as high as 8. > in winter. Like I said earlier it is spring water. I have a sample waiting > for morning to test the nitrates again. Everything is fine for now, I fear > continued high nitrate levels will cause problems even if they are > considered acceptable. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > It would be interesting if you'd keep a chart of your tap water > baseline > > tests. I'm wondering if your pH goes up in the winter due to a > lower CO2 > > level in the water due to the cooler water temps. > > > > You should track your tap water on the 1) out-the-tap, 2) 24 hours, > 3) 48 > > hours test once a month for a year and see how much more the water > > chemistry/parameters might change. The basic tests like ammonia, > nitrite, > > nitrate, pH, GH, KH, temperature, CO2 (can be figured out using the > pH, KH > > and temp). > > > > When you say pH is off the charts, how high is it? Is it off the > charts out > > the tap and does it stay that high on the 48 hour baseline test? > > > > My pH, KH and GH gets higher during the summer months down here in > the New > > Orleans. I haven't checked with my public utility to see if they > raise the > > buffering levels during the summer months since the warmer water > would be > > more likely to have a higher CO2 level, thus possibly making it > acidic, or > > if the warmer water is causing calcium/mineral buildup inside the > pipes to > > leech into the flowing water. There is a big difference in > temperature > > between the tap water in the summer to winter... around 20F > difference... > > and that's always something to know as well so you don't refill a > tank with > > very cold water, after a PWC during the winter which might lower > the tank > > temp quite a bit. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > Good Afternoon, I have not kept charts but do test regularly, > seasonally. It is always lower in summer:6. range and as high as 8. > in winter. Like I said earlier it is spring water. I have a sample waiting > for morning to test the nitrates again. Everything is fine for now, I fear > continued high nitrate levels will cause problems even if they are > considered acceptable. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of grammy1086 > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Have you tested your water out of the tap? This may be your source > > of > > > nitrates. Suggested is to draw a sample, test immediately out of > the > > > tap, let the water sit and test again 24 hours later. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > Good Morning! The water from tap is 0ppm. I have a sample waiting > > for tomorrow moning.We'll see. I have tested PH from tap (we have > spring > > water) it is always higher in the winter mo.(off the charts higher). > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of grammy1086 > > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:32 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > > > > > I must be honest, I joined group a couple of days ago. I like to > > sit > > > back and watch to get a sense of "atmosphere". Must say; the ZD > > thing > > > had me wary. I have 3 tanks, A 10gal. that houses 1 albino frog. A > > > 55gal. that houses a pink convict, jack dempsey, 2 julii coryd's, > 1 > > > panda cory, 1 albino cory, 1 rainbow shark, 1 black fin shark, and > > 2 > > > very old gold gouramis. I know I'm going to get beat up for this > > one, > > > a 29 gal reef, (this tank used to be the tropical) found the 55g. > > > complete for $75.00 couldn't pass it up! After transfering the > > trops > > > into the 55g. I decided to do a reef (had a 20 gal fish only for 5 > > or > > > 6 years doing great until the tornados hit our area, lost power > for > > > days, all was lost). Reef is about 6mo. old. Home to 2 clown fish, > > 2 > > > yellow tail damsels, 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 halloween crab, 2 > > tiny > > > blue knuckle crabs, 2 tiny snails (turbo). There are also 2 small > > > zoanthid colonies, 1 3.5 in. brain coral, 2 dwarf feather duster > > > worms, 1 med size mushroom colony (rhodactis) very small glove > > polyps > > > colony, 1 med size tree coral. My ammonia is 0ppm, nitites 0ppm, > ph is > > > 8.2, calcium is 400, salinity is 1.024. My nitrates are always > > 10 > > > to 15 ppm.even after water changes (I do this regularly, same day, > > > roughly 6gals every week.) What am I doing wrong? What other info > > do > > > you need? Thank you for any help you can give. > > > > > > > > > Ps. Yes, I am looking for a 75gal. at least for the Reef. Ilive in > > > central n.y. (any out there) > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 > Tested on: 11/3/2008 11:30:02 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32407	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue)

Yep, it was the wrong spot again. lol I have copy/pasted your reply right below the "Original Message" with your header info below my sig. When replying via email, just type your reply at the very top of the reply email. That will keep it on top of the thread and in chronological order.... just like my reply is above yours in this reply. Anyhow.. back to your original post. The nitrates out the tap will not normally change with a 48 hour baseline test. It's usually the pH, CO2, sometimes the KH/GH and ammonia might show up after treating the water with dechlor if the water is treated with chloramine. You indicated your water is spring water so I doubt it's treated with any disinfectants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grammy1086 Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) Please forgive me if this is in the wrong spot. I can never get it straight. Anyways, I did the nitrate test this morning (24hr. sample) there was just the slightest change in color but 0ppm just the same. Today is water change day . Should I try something different? Thank You Grammy. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Grammy, > > I moved your reply from down below my reply to above my previous reply. I > think most would agree that this is the preferred way to answer a reply. I > know it's kind of backwards to put the answer above the question but it > keeps things in chronological order from bottom to top. Also, there's a > chance someone might not scroll down to find your answer if you are > answering a long reply (such as mine tend to be.. lol). The reader might > think you hit the Send button before typing anything. If you have your > email client set up to start replies at the bottoms of emails, you might > want to manually change your ways when replying to group/forum emails. > Also, some emails from Yahoo will be truncated, that is, they will chop off > the bottom of the email so your reply could get chopped off. > > Anyhow, that said, have you ever tested your GH, KH, temperature and CO2 > levels throughout the seasons? I'm wondering if the lower pH isn't caused > by a higher CO2 level due to the warmer water during the summer? The 48 > hour baseline test would help determine the cause of the pH changes. I > would suspect they are not as far off as your right-out-the-tap tests might > have shown in the past. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > Please forgive me if this is in the wrong spot. I can never get it straight. Anyways, I did the nitrate test this morning (24hr. sample) there was just the slightest change in color but 0ppm just the same. Today is water change day . Should I try something different? Thank You Grammy. > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of grammy1086 > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > Good Afternoon, I have not kept charts but do test regularly, > seasonally. It is always lower in summer:6. range and as high as 8. > in winter. Like I said earlier it is spring water. I have a sample waiting > for morning to test the nitrates again. Everything is fine for now, I fear > continued high nitrate levels will cause problems even if they are > considered acceptable. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > It would be interesting if you'd keep a chart of your tap water > baseline > > tests. I'm wondering if your pH goes up in the winter due to a > lower CO2 > > level in the water due to the cooler water temps. > > > > You should track your tap water on the 1) out-the-tap, 2) 24 hours, > 3) 48 > > hours test once a month for a year and see how much more the water > > chemistry/parameters might change. The basic tests like ammonia, > nitrite, > > nitrate, pH, GH, KH, temperature, CO2 (can be figured out using the > pH, KH > > and temp). > > > > When you say pH is off the charts, how high is it? Is it off the > charts out > > the tap and does it stay that high on the 48 hour baseline test? > > > > My pH, KH and GH gets higher during the summer months down here in > the New > > Orleans. I haven't checked with my public utility to see if they > raise the > > buffering levels during the summer months since the warmer water > would be > > more likely to have a higher CO2 level, thus possibly making it > acidic, or > > if the warmer water is causing calcium/mineral buildup inside the > pipes to > > leech into the flowing water. There is a big difference in > temperature > > between the tap water in the summer to winter... around 20F > difference... > > and that's always something to know as well so you don't refill a > tank with > > very cold water, after a PWC during the winter which might lower > the tank > > temp quite a bit. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > Good Afternoon, I have not kept charts but do test regularly, > seasonally. It is always lower in summer:6. range and as high as 8. > in winter. Like I said earlier it is spring water. I have a sample waiting > for morning to test the nitrates again. Everything is fine for now, I fear > continued high nitrate levels will cause problems even if they are > considered acceptable. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of grammy1086 > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Have you tested your water out of the tap? This may be your source > > of > > > nitrates. Suggested is to draw a sample, test immediately out of > the > > > tap, let the water sit and test again 24 hours later. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > Good Morning! The water from tap is 0ppm. I have a sample waiting > > for tomorrow moning.We'll see. I have tested PH from tap (we have > spring > > water) it is always higher in the winter mo.(off the charts higher). > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of grammy1086 > > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:32 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello, New to group. (have nitrate issue) > > > > > > I must be honest, I joined group a couple of days ago. I like to > > sit > > > back and watch to get a sense of "atmosphere". Must say; the ZD > > thing > > > had me wary. I have 3 tanks, A 10gal. that houses 1 albino frog. A > > > 55gal. that houses a pink convict, jack dempsey, 2 julii coryd's, > 1 > > > panda cory, 1 albino cory, 1 rainbow shark, 1 black fin shark, and > > 2 > > > very old gold gouramis. I know I'm going to get beat up for this > > one, > > > a 29 gal reef, (this tank used to be the tropical) found the 55g. > > > complete for $75.00 couldn't pass it up! After transfering the > > trops > > > into the 55g. I decided to do a reef (had a 20 gal fish only for 5 > > or > > > 6 years doing great until the tornados hit our area, lost power > for > > > days, all was lost). Reef is about 6mo. old. Home to 2 clown fish, > > 2 > > > yellow tail damsels, 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 halloween crab, 2 > > tiny > > > blue knuckle crabs, 2 tiny snails (turbo). There are also 2 small > > > zoanthid colonies, 1 3.5 in. brain coral, 2 dwarf feather duster > > > worms, 1 med size mushroom colony (rhodactis) very small glove > > polyps > > > colony, 1 med size tree coral. My ammonia is 0ppm, nitites 0ppm, > ph is > > > 8.2, calcium is 400, salinity is 1.024. My nitrates are always > > 10 > > > to 15 ppm.even after water changes (I do this regularly, same day, > > > roughly 6gals every week.) What am I doing wrong? What other info > > do > > > you need? Thank you for any help you can give. > > > > > > > > > Ps. Yes, I am looking for a 75gal. at least for the Reef. Ilive in > > > central n.y. (any out there) > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 11:29:42 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32408	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Pet Smart sells filter media bags in 2 sizes. Prices are reasonable also. They are great for all kinds of things. I use them for peat moss. Hope this helps, -------Original Message------- From: bill1433 Date: 11/4/2008 7:15:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears I don’t want to get in the middle of things or confuse you further but if adding bio-balls or any capturing extra device for increasing active bacteria I think I know of a very simple thing that might help you and certainly speed things along. This just came to me while doing my “Mr. Mom” stuff this morning. Why not use a nylon ladies lingerie bag of the type used for hosiery or lingerie in a washing machine? These bags are very sturdy, easy to clean and come in a wide variety of sizes and are relatively cheap and above all else, are almost indestructible. Load them up with the filter media of your choice and you’re off to the races. Considering a carbon bit additive? I notice from my wife’s collection of these bags that the size of the mesh itself will also vary allowing you to put almost anything in there. Time for a change remove only one element at a time for cleaning to insure proper balance and good growth of your bacteria without disturbing it too much. Hope I helped a bit? Bill --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: From: Alina <alambiet@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 8:14 AM Yes, this is the filter I have, and the filter cartridge is the one with the blue trim and the tiny X. http://www.petco. com/Shop/ Product.aspx? sku=1083791 The frame is a square witha big X, over that is the padding, but the X holds bits of carbon in each V shape. (Is this greek or what?). So that It's not just a convenient pouch, but four little V-shaped pouches inside. Alina --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know which > filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several varieties > depending on the filter system model. > http://www.petco. com/product/ 102601/Aqueon- Aquarium- Power-Filters. aspx > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to slice > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic frame > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You could add > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many others) > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the floss > pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter cleaning > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter cartridge good, > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge amount of > surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. If you > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could put that > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as bio-balls > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has as much > surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked the tank > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult fancy > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked. .. at > least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel every week > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give me much > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first stage in > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a smaller pore > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss pads and > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. This > keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and it keeps > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff that the > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be cleaning it > every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, detritus > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your email and I > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the filter > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather Hanz and > Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly girl".. > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter cartridge from a > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a minute or > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > Hi, > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at Lenny's blog, > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite see how I > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't look like > that . > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an "X" in > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, at every > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start fiddling with > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might accidentally > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a lot of > cuts in the media. > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie thing > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and replaced > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I paid for > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the tank and > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought of a PWC > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about how I'm > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can spare > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet another > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And can I > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter altogether? And > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to change out > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If so how > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to attach a > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > Alina > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > Tested on: 11/3/2008 10:16:24 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 2:14:48 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32409	From: Alina	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

No, but there might be a way to make this work. I'll just have to fiddle with it a bit. Thanks. And maybe one day soon..I'll get a filter upgrade! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Sorry, > > I missed the part about the canister filter. > > Yes, the application COULD work provided that > there was no interference from the filter/pumps mechanism. > Such things as impeller clearance and so on must all be considered. > > Most probably I dry run to check filter clearance would be most important. > Not under power but by hand if possible. You could quite easily burn your motor > up if anything is restricting the normal flow of things in there. Again, I apologize > I did miss the "Canister Filter" part and was directing my remarks at the HOB type of power filters. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: > > From: Alina <alambiet@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 11:17 AM > > > > > > > > > Yes, indeed. Perhaps. But how would one get that to fit in inside the > canister? Would it muck things up (like the flow of water)? > > For example, once when I made the terrible mistake of adding ammo > chips to the filter, I used a bag with the chips inside, and I placed > it in the back flow of the filter. > > Is that how I might do this? > > A > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > I don't want to get in the middle of things or confuse you further > > but if adding bio-balls or any capturing extra device for increasing > > active bacteria I think I know of a very simple thing that might help > > you and certainly speed things along. > > > > This just came to me while doing my "Mr. Mom" stuff this morning. > Why not use a nylon ladies lingerie bag of the type used for hosiery > or lingerie in a washing machine? These bags are very sturdy, easy to > clean and come in a wide variety of sizes and are relatively cheap and > above all else, are almost indestructible. Load them up with the > filter media of your choice and you're off to the races. Considering > a carbon bit additive? I notice from my wife's collection of these > bags that the size of the mesh itself will also vary allowing you to > put almost anything in there. Time for a change remove only one > element at a time for cleaning to insure proper balance and good > growth of your bacteria without disturbing it too much. > > > > Hope I helped a bit? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Alina <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@ .> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 8:14 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is the filter I have, and the filter cartridge is the one > > with the blue trim and the tiny X. > > > > http://www.petco. com/Shop/ Product.aspx? sku=1083791 > > > > The frame is a square witha big X, over that is the padding, but the X > > holds bits of carbon in each V shape. (Is this greek or what?). So > > that It's not just a convenient pouch, but four little V-shaped > > pouches inside. > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know > which > > > filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several varieties > > > depending on the filter system model. > > > http://www.petco. com/product/ 102601/Aqueon- Aquarium- > Power-Filters. aspx > > > > > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors to > > slice > > > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the plastic > > frame > > > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You > > could add > > > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many > > others) > > > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the > floss > > > pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter > > cleaning > > > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter > > cartridge good, > > > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge > amount of > > > surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. > > If you > > > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could > > put that > > > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as > > bio-balls > > > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has > as much > > > surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > > > > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily stocked > > the tank > > > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > > > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two adult > > fancy > > > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked. > ... at > > > least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel every > > week > > > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give > > me much > > > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first > > stage in > > > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a > > smaller pore > > > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density floss > > pads and > > > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. > This > > > keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and it > > keeps > > > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff > > that the > > > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > > > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be > cleaning it > > > every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish poop, > > detritus > > > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > > > > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your > > email and I > > > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the > > filter > > > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather > Hanz and > > > Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly > > girl".. > > > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter > > cartridge from a > > > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > > > > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a > > minute or > > > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at > > Lenny's blog, > > > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite > > see how I > > > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > > > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't > > look like > > > that . > > > > > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an > > "X" in > > > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, > > at every > > > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start > > fiddling with > > > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might > > accidentally > > > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make a > > lot of > > > cuts in the media. > > > > > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical newbie > > thing > > > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAaaaah) my filter media and > > replaced > > > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I > > paid for > > > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the > > tank and > > > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the thought > > of a PWC > > > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > > > > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about > > how I'm > > > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I can > > spare > > > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet > > another > > > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > > > > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? And > > can I > > > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter > > altogether? And > > > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to > > change out > > > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? If > > so how > > > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > > > > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to > > attach a > > > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > > > Tested on: 11/3/2008 10:16:24 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 > > > Tested on: 11/4/2008 2:14:48 AM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

You know.. I was thinking about this a little more and if you went the route of using a separate media bag for when you wanted to put carbon in your filter reservoir, then you could slice the back side of the filter floss on all four sides and dump the old carbon out... or just leave it in. It won't really hurt things once it's used up (although there are some reports that cheapo carbon might leech stuff back into the water but I'm not sure if I believe this or not). The carbon pieces would just provide more surface area inside the filter cartridge for bio-filtration but I also found that carbon inside the filter cartridges would slow down the water flow more often and cause over-topping of the filter cartridge or other overflowing of the water (some HOB's have an overflow slot so the water overflows back into the tank in case the filter cartridge gets too clogged up). But since you are not experiencing much buildup on your filter floss, this shouldn't pose a problem for you now but as the fish grow or you add more fish or plants, then you might get more detritus building up between filter maintenance. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears No, but there might be a way to make this work. I'll just have to fiddle with it a bit. Thanks. And maybe one day soon..I'll get a filter upgrade! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Sorry, > > I missed the part about the canister filter. > > Yes, the application COULD work provided that there was no > interference from the filter/pumps mechanism. > Such things as impeller clearance and so on must all be considered. > > Most probably I dry run to check filter clearance would be most important. > Not under power but by hand if possible. You could quite easily burn your motor > up if anything is restricting the normal flow of things in there. Again, I apologize > I did miss the "Canister Filter" part and was directing my remarks at the HOB type of power filters. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: > > From: Alina <alambiet@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 11:17 AM > > > > > > > > > Yes, indeed. Perhaps. But how would one get that to fit in inside the > canister? Would it muck things up (like the flow of water)? > > For example, once when I made the terrible mistake of adding ammo > chips to the filter, I used a bag with the chips inside, and I placed > it in the back flow of the filter. > > Is that how I might do this? > > A > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > I don't want to get in the middle of things or confuse you further > > but if adding bio-balls or any capturing extra device for increasing > > active bacteria I think I know of a very simple thing that might > > help you and certainly speed things along. > > > > This just came to me while doing my "Mr. Mom" stuff this morning. > Why not use a nylon ladies lingerie bag of the type used for hosiery > or lingerie in a washing machine? These bags are very sturdy, easy to > clean and come in a wide variety of sizes and are relatively cheap and > above all else, are almost indestructible. Load them up with the > filter media of your choice and you're off to the races. Considering a > carbon bit additive? I notice from my wife's collection of these bags > that the size of the mesh itself will also vary allowing you to put > almost anything in there. Time for a change remove only one element at > a time for cleaning to insure proper balance and good growth of your > bacteria without disturbing it too much. > > > > Hope I helped a bit? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Alina <alambiet@ .> wrote: > > > > From: Alina <alambiet@ .> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 8:14 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this is the filter I have, and the filter cartridge is the one > > with the blue trim and the tiny X. > > > > http://www.petco. com/Shop/ Product.aspx? sku=1083791 > > > > The frame is a square witha big X, over that is the padding, but the > > X holds bits of carbon in each V shape. (Is this greek or what?). So > > that It's not just a convenient pouch, but four little V-shaped > > pouches inside. > > > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Look at this page (scroll down to near the bottom) and let me know > which > > > filter cartridge you have. It looks like they have several > > > varieties depending on the filter system model. > > > http://www.petco. com/product/ 102601/Aqueon- Aquarium- > Power-Filters. aspx > > > > > > To me, it looks like you could just use a razor knife or scissors > > > to > > slice > > > through the top of the floss pad right below the top of the > > > plastic > > frame > > > and then you could dump the old carbon out in to the trash. You > > could add > > > some bio-balls type media (Bio-max is one brand but there are many > > others) > > > inside of that now opened cartridge or just leave it with just the > floss > > > pads. If you do use the bio-balls, then when it comes to filter > > cleaning > > > time, you could pour out the bio-balls and clean the filter > > cartridge good, > > > even under tap water, since the bio-balls would contain a huge > amount of > > > surface area for the N-bacteria compared to the filter floss pads. > > If you > > > don't use bio-balls, then if you have some extra gravel, you could > > put that > > > in the opening but gravel wouldn't have as much surface area as > > bio-balls > > > which are porous with microscopic pores so a single bio-ball has > as much > > > surface area as a whole lot of gravel. > > > > > > Also, your filter modifications would depend on how heavily > > > stocked > > the tank > > > is. In my goldfish tank, I add lots of extra filter floss to give more > > > surface area for nitrifying bacteria since even with only two > > > adult > > fancy > > > goldfish in a 65G tank, that is on the verge of being overstocked. > ... at > > > least considering the amount of detritus I suck out the gravel > > > every > > week > > > leads me to believe this. The added filter floss padding also give > > me much > > > more mechanical filtration. I also use various stages so the first > > stage in > > > my canister is a larger pore sponge block, the next stage is a > > smaller pore > > > sponge block, the next two stages are 1/2" thick dual density > > > floss > > pads and > > > then I have a micro filtration pad and lastly, the Purigen packet. > This > > > keeps me from having to clean my filter more than once a week and > > > it > > keeps > > > the water flowing good since the various stages catch enough stuff > > that the > > > filter floss pads and micro pad does not get clogged up too fast. If I > > > tried to rely on one of them thin filter cartridges, I'd be > cleaning it > > > every day to keep it from getting blocked up between the fish > > > poop, > > detritus > > > and plant matter that gets sucked up by my filters. > > > > > > LOL.. I was typing answers/questions above as I was reading your > > email and I > > > just made it to the part where you are paranoid about touching the > > filter > > > media. (In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation.. or rather > Hanz and > > > Franz doing their imitation of A.S. from SNL... "Don't be a girly > > girl".. > > > LOL) And yes, it would be better for me to see your filter > > cartridge from a > > > couple of angles. All of the websites for them only show one angle. > > > > > > Doing the "surgery" to your cartridge shouldn't take more than a > > minute or > > > two which would not be a problem to your good nitrifying bacteria. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > > referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > > > Behalf Of Alina > > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:55 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I need help with the DIY carbon filter process. I've looked at > > Lenny's blog, > > > and pictures, and I admit I may be a little slow but I don't quite > > see how I > > > can replace my carbon and keep my filter media. > > > I get how Lenny does it in his, it makes sense, but mine doesn't > > look like > > > that . > > > > > > I have an Aquaeon filter 30, it has a filter cartridge that has an > > "X" in > > > the center, with carbon located in between the Xs. In other words, > > at every > > > "V" shape of the X there are bits of carbon. Which if I start > > fiddling with > > > cutting into each divider and adding carbon, I worry I might > > accidentally > > > get loose carbon inside the tank. Plus, it seems I'd have to make > > > a > > lot of > > > cuts in the media. > > > > > > As some of you may recall, a few weeks ago I did the typical > > > newbie > > thing > > > and threw away (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAaaaah) my filter media > > > and > > replaced > > > my cartrige, without realizing the trouble I was about to be in. I > > paid for > > > it dearly, at about the same time some nuisance snails got in the > > tank and > > > pooped like the dickens so I did thrice daily PWC until the > > > thought > > of a PWC > > > made my hands go immediately pruny. > > > > > > Now, I know better. So it's Monday, and I'm already worrying about > > how I'm > > > going to make this work this weekend, and save my bacteria, so I > > > can > > spare > > > myself the mini-cycle that inevitably follows and the death of yet > > another > > > little fish, who didn't ask to go home with me to begin with. > > > > > > Can anyone share photos and/or links of their DIY filter change? > > > And > > can I > > > just start from scratch, that is, just make my own filter > > altogether? And > > > can I touch the media long enough to make the cuts necessary to > > change out > > > the carbon (yes, I am paranoid about touching the filter media)? > > > If > > so how > > > can I do this quickly so as not to lose more bacteria? > > > > > > Thank you so much. In the morning, I'll try to figure out a way to > > attach a > > > photo of my filter cartridge so this makes more sense. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/3/2008 > > > 10:16:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > > > 2:14:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 11:44:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081103-0, 11/03/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 11:49:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32411	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta

Lenny, Yes I did know that bloodworms are mosquito larvae, but I didn't know they lead to constipation, very good to know, thanks :) Are beta's just prone to constipation or do bloodworms have a chance to cause constipation in most freshwater fish? How can I coerce him into eating a shelled pea if he's not eating at all? Any tips? lol. Oh and my test strips read both KH and GH, I just did a test a few moments ago and it measured my KH somewhere near 0, and my GH is somewhere between 50-75 ppm, I will do another test after work and see if it reads any different. I really wonder how accurate it is since it also reads my PH at lower than 6.2 (it doesn't show results lower than 6.2, so it's hard to tell exactly how well it's reading). I was under the assumption that KH can be adjusted with aquarium salts, is this correct? The rest of the readings look right though, no nitrites, no chlorine and the nitrates barely read on the test strip, which is what my regular tests say with the drops and vials. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32412	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Tubifex worms (dried) question.

Okay I've had some freezedried tubifex worms for about a month now, and every time I put them in the tank all of my fish seem to ignore it and eat all the other stuff. I have tried sticking it to the side of the glass on the aquarium like the instructions say to do. I have also broken it up into tiny pieces by hand and dropped the pieces into the tank, but either way my fish just ignore it. Does anyone have any tips on getting the fish to eat the freezedried tubifex worms? They seemed more interested in them when I broke them into smaller pieces and threw them into the tank, but not enough to be interested in eating them, I always end up scooping out all the leftovers later. I would have though that at least my glowfish danio gang would be interested at least... Oh go figure as I type this my angel fish started to pick at the cube stuck to the side of the tank, well perhaps at least they like them and maybe my other fish will start eating them too, I was tired of wasting them, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32413	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta

From all I've read and learned from my own limited experience with Betta's, they have such a compressed body cavity for all of their internal organs (kind of like fancy goldfish), so they are more prone to digestive issues. If you notice, a Bettas organs are all crammed into a very small section of their body, right behind the mouth and eyes, and then they have a long body section leading to the tail but the mouth and the anus are quite close together (see the Internal Anatomy drawing 1/2 way down on this page - http://www.swishfish.com/anatomy.shtml) where many other fish have their anus quite further away, halfway or more down their body, nearer the actual tail of the fish. I think this is what leads to their having digestive issues more frequently. If you can get your guy eating the green pea "meat" that I mentioned earlier, that would be a good thing to feed on a regular basis. Green pea "meat" is a natural laxative to fish and they all seem to love it. They are considered carnivores but just like all animals, they still need a varied diet. As far as coaxing him to eat, I think one of the pages I sent you before suggested dragging your fingertip or something like that across the surface of the water like a living food item... kind of like fishing for real. GH can be adjusted with something like Marine Salt but KH is carbonate hardness so you would need to add something with carbonates in it. The simplest thing is Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) but you could also buy a Cuttlebone (in the pet bird section.. is actually a bony structure from the Cuttlefish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuttlebone) and put a small piece of that in the water or filter and it would slowly dissolve releasing calcium carbonate into the water. This is also good for folks with pet snails, like Apple Snails, so the snails get extra calcium for building healthy shells. KH of 4.5-5.5 dH (80-100ppm) is the minimum that I like in my tanks (and I aim for 7 dH in my goldfish tank). When it gets too much lower, as in your case (possibly), it can cause a large drop in pH which can be very stressful and even cause pH shock and a quick die off of fish. KH is also needed by the fish and by the nitrifying bacteria. When it gets too low, the nitrifying bacteria will start dying off. Since your source water seems to have such a low KH level, I would start dosing your tanks with Baking Soda per the directions and calculator on this page - http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp Remove some tank water in a cup, add some Baking Soda and stir vigorously to mix. Then slowly pour it back in avoiding the fish directly. I usually pour it into the outflow stream of my filter so it gets dispersed. You will have to do several small doses to slowly bring up the KH levels so your fish can slowly acclimate to the changing water chemistry. This will also slowly raise your pH so you do not want to raise that too much, too fast, either. I think you said you have the API Master Test Kit so it might be a good idea to order one of API's GH/KH dual test kits so you can get better test results. Once you figure out what your tap water baseline is definitely like, then you would know how much Baking Soda to dose in each tank with each PWC without having to test every week. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta. Lenny, Yes I did know that bloodworms are mosquito larvae, but I didn't know they lead to constipation, very good to know, thanks :) Are beta's just prone to constipation or do bloodworms have a chance to cause constipation in most freshwater fish? How can I coerce him into eating a shelled pea if he's not eating at all? Any tips? lol. Oh and my test strips read both KH and GH, I just did a test a few moments ago and it measured my KH somewhere near 0, and my GH is somewhere between 50-75 ppm, I will do another test after work and see if it reads any different. I really wonder how accurate it is since it also reads my PH at lower than 6.2 (it doesn't show results lower than 6.2, so it's hard to tell exactly how well it's reading). I was under the assumption that KH can be adjusted with aquarium salts, is this correct? The rest of the readings look right though, no nitrites, no chlorine and the nitrates barely read on the test strip, which is what my regular tests say with the drops and vials. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 4:34:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32414	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears

Is there some way of just cutting the top of the filter open to dump out some of the carbon and not worry about getting all of it out? Or possibly finding another brand of filter media that will fit into your filter holder? I have found that some brands have a basic size that they all go buy and some filter media is interchangeable for different filters. I have a little over the tank power filter for my 10 gallon, and it has a reclose-able top so that I can just add carbon media as needed. On a side note when I got the tank from a friend, they had ran the filter for so long that it was covered in green algae and there was NO carbon even left in the filter, LOL. I was surprised that the catfish was even still alive, I took him out to the fish store and let them give him a new home since I didn't want the "fish-eater" catfish in my community tank ;) He ate his pleco tank mate, that's how "friendly" he was, lol. The filter I use is a cheapo one from walmart (the tetra 5-15), it's not one that I would have bought, but since it came with the tank and seems to do the job well enough for my beta I haven't bothered replacing it. I tend to over filter my tanks with higher powered filters, for instance my 55 gallon has a magnum 350 power filter which I think was rated for a 100 gallon tank, and I also have a life guard fluidized bed filter rated for up to 300 gallons, so my 55 gallon stays pretty darn clean, and most of the fish seem to love the water flow. When I set up my 55 gallon tank I obviously used new carbon in the magnum power filter, but I haven't changed it yet and it's been 2 months. I've read mixed reviews about changing the carbon, but I figure if I go ahead and change it I will leave half of the old carbon in there and just fill it up with new carbon that way I don't dump out all my bacteria. The fluidized bed filter is supposed to help create beneficial bacteria but I'm really not sure if it's doing it's job (my tank isn't cycling of course since it's now established). And yes I learned the hard way this last time about setting up a fish tank, I didn't learn until afterwards that you can do a fish-less cycling, but I know for next time at least. It was a spendy way to learn since I lost half my fish the first month, and then the 2nd month I lost a good portion to fin and tail rot, now I'm recovered from that and hope that I have my tank set up well enough to avoid anything major going wrong, lol. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You know.. I was thinking about this a little more and if you went the > route > of using a separate media bag for when you wanted to put carbon in your > filter reservoir, then you could slice the back side of the filter > floss on > all four sides and dump the old carbon out... or just leave it in. It > won't > really hurt things once it's used up (although there are some reports that > cheapo carbon might leech stuff back into the water but I'm not sure if I > believe this or not). The carbon pieces would just provide more surface > area inside the filter cartridge for bio-filtration but I also found that > carbon inside the filter cartridges would slow down the water flow more > often and cause over-topping of the filter cartridge or other > overflowing of > the water (some HOB's have an overflow slot so the water overflows > back into > the tank in case the filter cartridge gets too clogged up). But since you > are not experiencing much buildup on your filter floss, this shouldn't > pose > a problem for you now but as the fish grow or you add more fish or plants, > then you might get more detritus building up between filter maintenance. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Me, my filter media and a lot of fears > > No, but there might be a way to make this work. I'll just have to fiddle > with it a bit. > > Thanks. And maybe one day soon..I'll get a filter upgrade! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32415	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit

I got an AquaTru Fresh Water Master test kit.  I have only used the pH test so far but it is much easier to read than the API.  The down side of the AquaTru pH is that it reads only in increments of 0.5 pH whereas the API is in increments of 0.2-0.4.  The AquaTru Kit clearly showed a pH of 7.5 and the API showed a pH of 7.8 on a sample of water from the same tank.  Based on the ease of determining a reading I prefer the AquaTru Kit.  The API kit may be about as accuate and is much less expensive. BTW there is free replacement of out-of-date reagents on the AquaTru Kit.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32416	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Tubifex worms (dried) question.

I wouldn't feed freeze dried but frozen and live. At the very least pellets or flake. Have you every eaten a freeze dried meal it is not the same. Joey **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32417	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta

If you are feeding freeze dried I would say that is the source of constipation. Personally I feed my bettas which include wild bettas such as albimarginata and halfmoon and crowntail fresh mosquito larvae , fairy shrimp and daphina. In absence of live food I feed frozen bloodworms, daphina and brine shrimp. Thanks Joey **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32418	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms (dried) question.

All of my fish really like the freezedried tubifex worms.  I prefer to break them up into very small pieces when I feed them.  I usually give them once a week only as a treat.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 3:23:23 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Tubifex worms (dried) question. Okay I've had some freezedried tubifex worms for about a month now, and every time I put them in the tank all of my fish seem to ignore it and eat all the other stuff. I have tried sticking it to the side of the glass on the aquarium like the instructions say to do. I have also broken it up into tiny pieces by hand and dropped the pieces into the tank, but either way my fish just ignore it. Does anyone have any tips on getting the fish to eat the freezedried tubifex worms? They seemed more interested in them when I broke them into smaller pieces and threw them into the tank, but not enough to be interested in eating them, I always end up scooping out all the leftovers later. I would have though that at least my glowfish danio gang would be interested at least... Oh go figure as I type this my angel fish started to pick at the cube stuck to the side of the tank, well perhaps at least they like them and maybe my other fish will start eating them too, I was tired of wasting them, LOL. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit

Let us know how the rest of the tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) compare when you do them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit I got an AquaTru Fresh Water Master test kit. I have only used the pH test so far but it is much easier to read than the API. The down side of the AquaTru pH is that it reads only in increments of 0.5 pH whereas the API is in increments of 0.2-0.4. The AquaTru Kit clearly showed a pH of 7.5 and the API showed a pH of 7.8 on a sample of water from the same tank. Based on the ease of determining a reading I prefer the AquaTru Kit. The API kit may be about as accuate and is much less expensive. BTW there is free replacement of out-of-date reagents on the AquaTru Kit. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 4:39:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 4:43:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32420	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit

I'll be doing regular testing on Saturday right before my PWC and I will post the comparisons of the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 4:43:02 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit Let us know how the rest of the tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) compare when you do them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit I got an AquaTru Fresh Water Master test kit. I have only used the pH test so far but it is much easier to read than the API. The down side of the AquaTru pH is that it reads only in increments of 0.5 pH whereas the API is in increments of 0.2-0.4. The AquaTru Kit clearly showed a pH of 7.5 and the API showed a pH of 7.8 on a sample of water from the same tank. Based on the ease of determining a reading I prefer the AquaTru Kit. The API kit may be about as accuate and is much less expensive. BTW there is free replacement of out-of-date reagents on the AquaTru Kit. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 4:39:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 4:43:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32421	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?

In another thread, I asked about ways to get my two male convict cichlids to come out of hiding. It was suggested that I add dither fish; tiger barb and giant danio were recommended. Okay, so I went to my lfs (Petco, sorry to say, but it's the only game in town). The gal in the fish dept. said the cichlids would kill any smaller fish and eat them, so I didn't get anything. I thought the idea behind dither fish was that they are faster than the cichlids and could avoid them, but that their presence would draw them out. I don't want to use any kind of fish as feeder fish, so what do you think, guys? Is there a fish that won't become cichlid food? I haven't seen my two guys for days.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32422	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?

Yet another example of the help not knowing the right answers nor having the right information, as they're not knowledgeable enough. Large, fast dither fish such as Rainbowfish, Giant Danios and Clown Barbs will certainly help draw your Convicts out by allowing in them to release their insecurity. These fish are much faster than Cichlids just in their normal mode of behavior and if by chance they get chased (which would be minimal at best) they'd have no problem at all in avoiding a Cichlid, at the same time that the Cichlid would quite soon learn that its efforts in trying to catch these fish would be in vain. The Convicts' behavior to chase any other fish, if they so chose to, would be to "escourt" these fish from their territory -- not to eat them unless these fish were of a size as to fit in the Convicts' mouths. They would not attempt to chase down fish half their size to kill them and tear them apart into small enough sizes where they only then could be devoured. Many Cichlid hobbyists use dither fish for similar and varied purposes -- which is why the concept of dither fish exists -- its real and it has been proven. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > In another thread, I asked about ways to get my two male convict > cichlids to come out of hiding. It was suggested that I add dither > fish; tiger barb and giant danio were recommended. Okay, so I went to > my lfs (Petco, sorry to say, but it's the only game in town). The gal > in the fish dept. said the cichlids would kill any smaller fish and > eat them, so I didn't get anything. I thought the idea behind dither > fish was that they are faster than the cichlids and could avoid them, > but that their presence would draw them out. I don't want to use any > kind of fish as feeder fish, so what do you think, guys? Is there a > fish that won't become cichlid food? I haven't seen my two guys for days. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32423	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?

A full size convict cichlid is about 4-5 inches, so a general rule of thumb a dither fish has to be to large for the cichlid to eat, and fast enough to escape the cichlids bursts. A full size tiger barb is about 2 1/2 inches and heavy bodied and too fast for the convict to aggressively attack. A giant danio reaches a full size of 4 inches (hence the name giant as it is gigantic compared to other danios) and occupies the upper levels of the tank and is also too fast for the convict. One thing I would like to suggest to you and that is make sure you get all your information from another source before asking the people at petsmart. As they usually are not very saavy when it comes to fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > In another thread, I asked about ways to get my two male convict > cichlids to come out of hiding. It was suggested that I add dither > fish; tiger barb and giant danio were recommended. Okay, so I went to > my lfs (Petco, sorry to say, but it's the only game in town). The gal > in the fish dept. said the cichlids would kill any smaller fish and > eat them, so I didn't get anything. I thought the idea behind dither > fish was that they are faster than the cichlids and could avoid them, > but that their presence would draw them out. I don't want to use any > kind of fish as feeder fish, so what do you think, guys? Is there a > fish that won't become cichlid food? I haven't seen my two guys for days. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32424	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit

The problem with receiving results only in increments of 0.5 is that such a change is extremely stressful to many fish. A change of a full point in pH (example: pH 7.5 to pH 6.5) results in a change of 100 fold in value. By this, it can be seen that an 0.5 change would result in a 50 fold difference. As you still have your API kit, I'd advice you use both for the time being, first using the AquaTru to get a reading in the ball park, then using the API to pinpoint the reading better. In this manner you should soon become accustomed to the API results in finding them increasingly easier to read. Fish should be subjected to no more than a pH change of 0.2 at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > I got an AquaTru Fresh Water Master test kit.  I have only used the pH test so far but it is much easier to read than the API.  The down side of the AquaTru pH is that it reads only in increments of 0.5 pH whereas the API is in increments of 0.2-0.4.  The AquaTru Kit clearly showed a pH of 7.5 and the API showed a pH of 7.8 on a sample of water from the same tank.  Based on the ease of determining a reading I prefer the AquaTru Kit.  The API kit may be about as accuate and is much less expensive. BTW there is free replacement of out-of-date reagents on the AquaTru Kit. >  Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32425	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?

Thanks so much, Raymond; that's very helpful. Petco didn't have any giant danios, and I didn't know till now about rainbowfish or clown barbs. Hubby works in a metro area where there are better fish stores, and I might get him to check these out. Thanks. Shirl --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Yet another example of the help not knowing the right answers nor > having the right information, as they're not knowledgeable enough. > Large, fast dither fish such as Rainbowfish, Giant Danios and Clown > Barbs will certainly help draw your Convicts out by allowing in them to > release their insecurity. These fish are much faster than Cichlids > just in their normal mode of behavior and if by chance they get chased > (which would be minimal at best) they'd have no problem at all in > avoiding a Cichlid, at the same time that the Cichlid would quite soon > learn that its efforts in trying to catch these fish would be in vain. > > The Convicts' behavior to chase any other fish, if they so chose to, > would be to "escourt" these fish from their territory -- not to eat > them unless these fish were of a size as to fit in the Convicts' > mouths. They would not attempt to chase down fish half their size to > kill them and tear them apart into small enough sizes where they only > then could be devoured. Many Cichlid hobbyists use dither fish for > similar and varied purposes -- which is why the concept of dither fish > exists -- its real and it has been proven. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@> > wrote: > > > > In another thread, I asked about ways to get my two male convict > > cichlids to come out of hiding. It was suggested that I add dither > > fish; tiger barb and giant danio were recommended. Okay, so I went to > > my lfs (Petco, sorry to say, but it's the only game in town). The gal > > in the fish dept. said the cichlids would kill any smaller fish and > > eat them, so I didn't get anything. I thought the idea behind dither > > fish was that they are faster than the cichlids and could avoid them, > > but that their presence would draw them out. I don't want to use any > > kind of fish as feeder fish, so what do you think, guys? Is there a > > fish that won't become cichlid food? I haven't seen my two guys for > days. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32426	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Dwarf frogs and dead fish

Okay, I have noticed that my dwarf frog will eat smaller fish that are already dead, but is it possible for him to eat a slower moving bottom feeder that is small? I have lost a couple of ottocynclis catfish in the last couple of days and they didn't just die, something chewed them up and left some bits for me to find. Nothing in my tank is out of wack, no ammonia spike, etc. So I'm wondering what is killing my fish. I have such terrible luck with fish ;) I shouldn't have anything in the tank that's eating anything else, only semi-aggressive fish or peaceful fish. I basically have fin nippers and peaceful ones ;) lol. Out of my 5 ottocynclis cats I can only count 2 in the tank now, so I may have even lost a 3rd one. These are the only fish coming up dead, everything else is very active and happy looking. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32427	From: Chris	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms (dried) question.

I haven't been using tubifex, but daphnia and blood worms. Not the same, but my fish go crazy over the stuff. Your fish must have cat in their geans.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32428	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail beta

Unfortunately our selection for live foods on this little island in Alaska is not that great, in fact I doubt our fish store has anything live for food except crickets and fish, LOL. I can see if they can get some in though. Any tips to get my beta feeling better? I know feeding a shelled pea is what I should do, but he doesn't eat anything I put in the tank. Amber joesbirds@... wrote: > > If you are feeding freeze dried I would say that

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32429	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

Well, Amber, Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first do a google using something like [your town/city] public water and see what comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number of the water people. , then you can call them and get some information, and likely a report sent out to you, or they will tell you where to find it online. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) \\Steve// , Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the boiler heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I don't know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that occasionally they send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but not sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't readily available to the public, but I would assume that water quality should be posted somewhere here in town). I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of city limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I used a test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32430	From: Chris	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

Couldn't zeolite also be used for the instance of a temporary home like a hospital or quarentine tank for new or sick fish? Also Does anyone know how much ammonia zeolite can remove per gram? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Half the battle is in asking the right questions <G>. You should probably ask if it will work to my, and the fishes, benefit. Yes, it will work to remove ammonia. It will also probably remove some calcium and other ions as well. I have a bit different take on the PVC-* products on the page Lenny references. My thought is that some of the chips are colored and others are the natural color of the material. While in a small container, it can probably be used as the substrate, and removed to be recharged. In a larger tank, it would be better to bag it for easy removal and recharging. > > The down side of using this material is that it removes beneficial ions as well as harmful ions. Lack of calcium, as mentioned above, will not only affect snail growth (yes, those are faint cheers you hear in the background from the snail haters), but it also limits its availability to the fish for proper skeletal formation. Removing ammonia does not give the nitro-bacteria species to gain a foothold to establish a cycle, as you know, important for the long term benefit of the fish and tank beyond the fishes' life span. > > However, for emergency use, it may well be something that will fill the bill. For instance, look at Dr. Katie's dilemma with the fish she has rescued coming along with the 55 gallon tank. She definitely needs to get the ammonia down and have it stay down while she tries to get the tank back in shape. Once the tank is back in shape, removing portions of the zeolite to make ammonia available to the bacteria that need it would be the way to go, until that tank is handling the cycle on its own. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite > > Hi, >   > My son purchased this sometime ago.  Is this product along the same lines?  > And the "age old question"?  Does it really work? > Called:   Pro-V and it's marketed by Penn-Plax >   > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 6:33 PM > > > > > > > So \\Steve//, > > Did you type that list or a copy/paste? LOL > > I think the only zeolite I've ever seen in the various pet stores and LFS > I've been too have been the kind that are used for sucking up ammonia. Do > you know which of the below list is the one? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite > > Please do keep in mind that zeolite is, more or less, a generic term. > There are a number of materials out there that can remove various substances > we do not want in our tanks. You were using the kind that pulls the ammonia > out, which is not really desirable in fish environments since we would > rather establish a biological cycle to do this for us as it will create a > more stable environment for the fish. > Even small amounts of ammonia can be toxic to fish over the long term, and > for some fish, the short term. > > Here is a list of the various minerals that are zeolites: > * Amicite > * Analcime > * Barrerite > * Bellbergite > * Bikitaite > * Boggsite > * Brewsterite > * Chabazite > * Clinoptilolite > * Cowlesite > * Dachiardite > * Edingtonite > * Epistilbite > * Erionite > * Faujasite > * Ferrierite > * Garronite > * Gismondine > * Gmelinite > * Gobbinsite > * Gonnardite > * Goosecreekite > * Harmotome > * Herschelite > * Heulandite > * Laumontite > * Levyne > * Maricopaite > * Mazzite > * Merlinoite > * Mesolite > * Montesommaite > * Mordenite > * Natrolite > * Offretite > * Paranatrolite > * Paulingite > * Pentasil > * Perlialite > * Phillipsite > * Pollucite > * Scolecite > * Sodium Dachiardite > * Stellerite > * Stilbite > * Tetranatrolite > * Thomsonite > * Tschernichite > * Wairakite > * Wellsite > * Willhendersonite > * Yugawaralite > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of skyak52 > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite > > Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. > I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big > dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/ zeolite systems so I though > "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some > bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just > toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, > and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came > complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water > like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the > temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to > remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have > heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system > now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had > any > trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral > springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and > conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter > first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of > mind-blowing. > > My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon > even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The > water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started > kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. > > But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part > of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich > treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back > in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. > > My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the > egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, > ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and > its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these > sorts of problems before. > > My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, > along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. > My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs > company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, > then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. > > This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, > additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble > release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded > natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the > plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable > outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses > added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys > have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually > he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two > albino cats were with him. so I don't know. > > Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32431	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle

They made cycling easier for me. They didn't do the job alone, but I didn't get the classic big spikes. I did start with the old bio-spira product, but I didn't think it worked all that well. I also used Cycle, and TLC. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 2:46 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-Spira vs Nutrafin cycle okay so you guys don't like the bottles of bacteria for cycling tanks. You say that you don't believe they are effective, but lenny likes bio-spira. Thats fine, but what I don't understand is how do they make cycling harder? If there is a live culture that starts working immediatly, do they die off soon as the food supply is used, or do they just die? The fish and food always put out ammonia, and would the filter catch the bacteria and keep them there? I don't get it. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32432	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: When to treat Ich?

About 2 months ago I treated my 46 gallon tank with Rid Ich + for 8 days due to a minor ich issue on 2 of my neon tetras. After about 3 weeks that I finished the Rid Ich treatment one of the neons had 1 white spot and started hitting the plants. I didn't do anything and all the fish looked to be fine. Even that neon looked fine after few days. This week I noticed 1 small white spot on one of the rosy tetras. This fish also started getting rid of the spot by hitting the plants and again I didn't do any treatment. This fish is now spotless. None of the fish shows signs of ich now. I understand that ich is a parasite living in pretty much all the aquariums and changes in temperature may cause it to attack the fish. My question is, do I need to treat my tank again for Ich or I should wait until I see more signs, such as more white spots on 2 or more fishes? I have a great pair of Kribensins in a quarantine tank that I'd like to move to the main tank, but I don't want them to get Ich. I also want to avoid that the other fish in the main tank get a ich infestation. Thanks for your help, Giuseppe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32433	From: Lisa	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater

Hi everyone. In light of all my previous posts about setting up a 20gal freshwater, I have managed to come up with this as the plan. It's a 22 gal tank. It has a 'aqua one' U/G filter and a 100wat heater which will be kept at 24*C (73*F?) The substrate will be mostly white gravel with some red and blue mixed through because of the gravel I already have in the 12inch and smaller tanks. The plants will all be silk and/or plastic with some driftwood and some smooth river pebbles. The fish will include. 1x peppered cory 7x black skirt tetras 2x zebra danios (Already in the 12 inch tank) 4x Golden madakas (Aleady in the 12 inch) 2x white clouds.(Aleady in the 12 inch) 1X Male CT Betta (Already in a small tank of his own) and a male and female German blue ram cichlid. Lisa (Australia)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32434	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

Well I found this out from our local water company online, which really makes me wonder about our water quality: "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of drinking water in the world. Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that comes from our faucets are now asking the same question; “Is my water safe to drink?” Despite the presence of a particular group of disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is! Are there contaminants in Ketchikan’s water? We send water samples every year to independent, certified laboratories for analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all the regulated inorganic contaminants we tested for, only minute amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of these were well below the EPA maximum standards for these contaminants. All of the other inorganic contaminants we tested for were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our turbidity continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of the water and we test for it because it is an indicator of microbiological quality. During periods of heavy rainfall following a dry spell, we do experience turbidity swings and take additional microbiological tests. Volatile organic contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally occurring organics are produced during the wood decay process and are carried by rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total Trihalomethanes (TTHM’s) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection byproducts when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the chlorine disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, found that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA’s maximum contaminant level (MCL) standards. Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids analysis at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water system ranging from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our system. The overall average was 57.0 parts per billion (ppb) for all of 2007’s analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. However, informational notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 months as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and 67.1 ppb. The greater amount occurred during the summer months when Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved organics in the water increases. Other than this single group of regulated compounds, Ketchikan has continued to meet or exceed all Federal drinking water standards every year since 1995. Copper (2006) was .478 ppm Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the distribution system. The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the distribution system. The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish to me. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Well, Amber, > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first do a > google using something like [your town/city] public water and see what > comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number of the water > people. , then you can call them and get some information, and likely a > report sent out to you, or they will tell you where to find it online. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > \\Steve// , > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the boiler > heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I don't know > if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that occasionally they > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but not > sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water quality > should be posted somewhere here in town). > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of city > limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I used a test > strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32435	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

If it was me, I'd do some research on the copper found in your water supply, mainly because I have no experience with it directly., and it can be harmful to some forms of aquatic life. I do not know if this amount is troublesome or not, but continued exposure to it could be. Let's see what some of the other guys have to say. I'm not worried about anything else you mentioned. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) Well I found this out from our local water company online, which really makes me wonder about our water quality: "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of drinking water in the world. Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that comes from our faucets are now asking the same question; "Is my water safe to drink?" Despite the presence of a particular group of disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is! Are there contaminants in Ketchikan's water? We send water samples every year to independent, certified laboratories for analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all the regulated inorganic contaminants we tested for, only minute amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of these were well below the EPA maximum standards for these contaminants. All of the other inorganic contaminants we tested for were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our turbidity continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of the water and we test for it because it is an indicator of microbiological quality. During periods of heavy rainfall following a dry spell, we do experience turbidity swings and take additional microbiological tests. Volatile organic contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally occurring organics are produced during the wood decay process and are carried by rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total Trihalomethanes (TTHM's) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection byproducts when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the chlorine disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, found that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA's maximum contaminant level (MCL) standards. Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids analysis at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water system ranging from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our system. The overall average was 57.0 parts per billion (ppb) for all of 2007's analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. However, informational notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 months as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and 67.1 ppb. The greater amount occurred during the summer months when Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved organics in the water increases. Other than this single group of regulated compounds, Ketchikan has continued to meet or exceed all Federal drinking water standards every year since 1995. Copper (2006) was .478 ppm Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the distribution system. The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the distribution system. The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish to me. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Well, Amber, > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first do a > google using something like [your town/city] public water and see what > comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number of the water > people. , then you can call them and get some information, and likely a > report sent out to you, or they will tell you where to find it online. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > \\Steve// , > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the boiler > heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I don't know > if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that occasionally they > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but not > sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water quality > should be posted somewhere here in town). > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of city > limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I used a test > strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32436	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: The Dreaded Zeolite

Chris, Many times, if it is called for, I leave a hole to wiggle out of my statements <g>. Read my last paragraph in the message you replied to. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The Dreaded Zeolite Couldn't zeolite also be used for the instance of a temporary home like a hospital or quarentine tank for new or sick fish? Also Does anyone know how much ammonia zeolite can remove per gram? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Half the battle is in asking the right questions <G>. You should probably ask if it will work to my, and the fishes, benefit. Yes, it will work to remove ammonia. It will also probably remove some calcium and other ions as well. I have a bit different take on the PVC-* products on the page Lenny references. My thought is that some of the chips are colored and others are the natural color of the material. While in a small container, it can probably be used as the substrate, and removed to be recharged. In a larger tank, it would be better to bag it for easy removal and recharging. > > The down side of using this material is that it removes beneficial ions as well as harmful ions. Lack of calcium, as mentioned above, will not only affect snail growth (yes, those are faint cheers you hear in the background from the snail haters), but it also limits its availability to the fish for proper skeletal formation. Removing ammonia does not give the nitro-bacteria species to gain a foothold to establish a cycle, as you know, important for the long term benefit of the fish and tank beyond the fishes' life span. > > However, for emergency use, it may well be something that will fill the bill. For instance, look at Dr. Katie's dilemma with the fish she has rescued coming along with the 55 gallon tank. She definitely needs to get the ammonia down and have it stay down while she tries to get the tank back in shape. Once the tank is back in shape, removing portions of the zeolite to make ammonia available to the bacteria that need it would be the way to go, until that tank is handling the cycle on its own. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite > > Hi, >   > My son purchased this sometime ago.  Is this product along the same lines?  > And the "age old question"?  Does it really work? > Called:   Pro-V and it's marketed by Penn-Plax >   > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 6:33 PM > > > > > > > So \\Steve//, > > Did you type that list or a copy/paste? LOL > > I think the only zeolite I've ever seen in the various pet stores and LFS > I've been too have been the kind that are used for sucking up ammonia. Do > you know which of the below list is the one? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite > > Please do keep in mind that zeolite is, more or less, a generic term. > There are a number of materials out there that can remove various substances > we do not want in our tanks. You were using the kind that pulls the ammonia > out, which is not really desirable in fish environments since we would > rather establish a biological cycle to do this for us as it will create a > more stable environment for the fish. > Even small amounts of ammonia can be toxic to fish over the long term, and > for some fish, the short term. > > Here is a list of the various minerals that are zeolites: > * Amicite > * Analcime > * Barrerite > * Bellbergite > * Bikitaite > * Boggsite > * Brewsterite > * Chabazite > * Clinoptilolite > * Cowlesite > * Dachiardite > * Edingtonite > * Epistilbite > * Erionite > * Faujasite > * Ferrierite > * Garronite > * Gismondine > * Gmelinite > * Gobbinsite > * Gonnardite > * Goosecreekite > * Harmotome > * Herschelite > * Heulandite > * Laumontite > * Levyne > * Maricopaite > * Mazzite > * Merlinoite > * Mesolite > * Montesommaite > * Mordenite > * Natrolite > * Offretite > * Paranatrolite > * Paulingite > * Pentasil > * Perlialite > * Phillipsite > * Pollucite > * Scolecite > * Sodium Dachiardite > * Stellerite > * Stilbite > * Tetranatrolite > * Thomsonite > * Tschernichite > * Wairakite > * Wellsite > * Willhendersonite > * Yugawaralite > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of skyak52 > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] The Dreaded Zeolite > > Hi folks, thanks for your extremely informative posts on zeolite. > I had never used zeolite before, but at the pet shop I noticed all the big > dollar filtration systems had charcoal/medium/ zeolite systems so I though > "they" knew something I didn't. I bought a jar of zeolite and added some > bits to the charcoal in biobag hangon filter system, and this was just > toward the end of first new tank cycle. I also added an undergravel filter, > and dry bacteria within a few days after that, and the platies I bought came > complete with ich from the store, so started adding salt and heating water > like I've done in the past, panicked a few days later and PWC'd, lowered the > temp to 75 and switched to Mardel "copper safe" which says you don't need to > remove carbon from filters. All hell was breaking loose. Oh, and I have > heavily mineral well water,as I just moved to a place off city water system > now,(my previous experience is with city river based water, and never had > any > trouble) and live down the road from what used to be a famous mineral > springs at the turn of the century, so was using water treatments and > conditioners and stress coats, (after running water through a Brita filter > first). In all my days I have never had such trouble, so this was kind of > mind-blowing. > > My girlfriend's son is a "fish guy", and he recommended removing the carbon > even though the label said it was fine. The zeolite went out with it. The > water cleared up, and I'm assuming the undergravel bacteria colony started > kicking in. And things settled down and the fish are great at this point. > > But what several of you have said about zeolite makes me think it was part > of the problem, so thankyou. I will not be using it anymore. The ich > treatment cycle is almost done with, and it will be time to put carbon back > in the filter soon, and I'm glad I asked about the zeolite. > > My quarantine tank was also going through new tank syndrome, chicken and the > egg sort of timing problem, and basically just became a place to die, > ashamed to admit, but that's what happened, so I kind of gave up on it, and > its dismantled and in a shed now. Like I said, I've never experienced these > sorts of problems before. > > My three "rainbow/green platies" remaining are part of the original crew, > along with one surviving albino cory cat of the original three. > My platy/cory questions are based on an either/or context. If the cory needs > company, then he'll get company and no more platies. If the cory is OK solo, > then I'll add one or two platies, and feedback says OK to vary the color. > > This is a ten-gallon tank with a 20 gallon rated hang on filter system, > additionally half of the tank has an undergravel system with surface bubble > release, (so vigourously oxygenated water) standard heater, larger rounded > natural color gravel (for the cats), a few artificial plants to avoid the > plant decay additional complications, Not near drafts or sunlight, stable > outside temperatures, no smoke, perfumes or other environmental weirdnesses > added. I'm actually fine as it is, and everyone is thriving, its just corys > have faces like a hangdog, which is easy to think he's lonely, but actually > he acts just fine, but he was also apparently happy when the other two > albino cats were with him. so I don't know. > > Anyway, thanks all for answering my questions. Skyak. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32437	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

According to the small print on the website it stated that they were unsure where the copper came from, but it was guessed that it was from older copper pipes. They also stated that they have been flushing the hydrants often to help keep the haloacetic acids down, since recently in the last quarter apparently they went up. They have gotten the levels back down to 60 ppb or lower (which is the max it can have according to regulations). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > If it was me, I'd do some research on the copper found in your water > supply, mainly because I have no experience with it directly., and it > can be harmful to some forms of aquatic life. I do not know if this > amount is troublesome or not, but continued exposure to it could be. > > Let's see what some of the other guys have to say. > > I'm not worried about anything else you mentioned. > > \\Steve// > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32438	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

You need to look over page 3 of the report to see what level of chlorine or chloramine that they use since they say it is higher than the EPA standards. Also, go to my blog and read my little article called "Chlorine-Chloramine Information" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html which has a series of emails between me and one of the scientists at my local water utility explaining how they only report chlorine on the water test reports, because that is all the EPA asks for, but they actually use Chloramine. You need to check with someone in the water utility lab and ask them if they use Chlorine or Chloramine and at what levels... so you will know if you have to overcompensate with your dechlor. You had mentioned ammonia in an earlier thread so I'm thinking your water is being treated with chloramine which is a compound made by binding chlorine and ammonia. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) Well I found this out from our local water company online, which really makes me wonder about our water quality: "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of drinking water in the world. Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that comes from our faucets are now asking the same question; “Is my water safe to drink?” Despite the presence of a particular group of disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is! Are there contaminants in Ketchikan’s water? We send water samples every year to independent, certified laboratories for analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all the regulated inorganic contaminants we tested for, only minute amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of these were well below the EPA maximum standards for these contaminants. All of the other inorganic contaminants we tested for were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our turbidity continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of the water and we test for it because it is an indicator of microbiological quality. During periods of heavy rainfall following a dry spell, we do experience turbidity swings and take additional microbiological tests. Volatile organic contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally occurring organics are produced during the wood decay process and are carried by rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total Trihalomethanes (TTHM’s) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection byproducts when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the chlorine disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, found that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA’s maximum contaminant level (MCL) standards. Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids analysis at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water system ranging from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our system. The overall average was 57.0 parts per billion (ppb) for all of 2007’s analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. However, informational notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 months as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and 67.1 ppb. The greater amount occurred during the summer months when Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved organics in the water increases. Other than this single group of regulated compounds, Ketchikan has continued to meet or exceed all Federal drinking water standards every year since 1995. Copper (2006) was .478 ppm Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the distribution system. The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the distribution system. The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish to me. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Well, Amber, > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first do > a google using something like [your town/city] public water and see > what comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number of > the water people. , then you can call them and get some information, > and likely a report sent out to you, or they will tell you where to find it online. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > \\Steve// , > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the boiler > heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I don't > know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that > occasionally they > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but not > sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water quality > should be posted somewhere here in town). > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of city > limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I used a > test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:37:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:45:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32439	From: Lisa	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater

Also, how long do i cycle it before i add the fish? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone. In light of all my previous posts about setting up a > 20gal freshwater, I have managed to come up with this as the plan. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32440	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater

The temperature you list may be a bit too cool for the last two fish you mention, the betta and the rams. Both fish should be kept at warmer temperatures. If it was not for the tetras, I'd say you can just keep the tank at room temperature. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater Hi everyone. In light of all my previous posts about setting up a 20gal freshwater, I have managed to come up with this as the plan. It's a 22 gal tank. It has a 'aqua one' U/G filter and a 100wat heater which will be kept at 24*C (73*F?) The substrate will be mostly white gravel with some red and blue mixed through because of the gravel I already have in the 12inch and smaller tanks. The plants will all be silk and/or plastic with some driftwood and some smooth river pebbles. The fish will include. 1x peppered cory 7x black skirt tetras 2x zebra danios (Already in the 12 inch tank) 4x Golden madakas (Aleady in the 12 inch) 2x white clouds.(Aleady in the 12 inch) 1X Male CT Betta (Already in a small tank of his own) and a male and female German blue ram cichlid. Lisa (Australia) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32441	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

Shouldn't the dechlor that also treats for heavy metals also handle the trace amounts of copper? The report mentioned they are below the EPA standards so dechlor products should be formulated to handle the amounts allowed in tap water.. right? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) If it was me, I'd do some research on the copper found in your water supply, mainly because I have no experience with it directly., and it can be harmful to some forms of aquatic life. I do not know if this amount is troublesome or not, but continued exposure to it could be. Let's see what some of the other guys have to say. I'm not worried about anything else you mentioned. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) Well I found this out from our local water company online, which really makes me wonder about our water quality: "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of drinking water in the world. Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that comes from our faucets are now asking the same question; "Is my water safe to drink?" Despite the presence of a particular group of disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is! Are there contaminants in Ketchikan's water? We send water samples every year to independent, certified laboratories for analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all the regulated inorganic contaminants we tested for, only minute amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of these were well below the EPA maximum standards for these contaminants. All of the other inorganic contaminants we tested for were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our turbidity continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of the water and we test for it because it is an indicator of microbiological quality. During periods of heavy rainfall following a dry spell, we do experience turbidity swings and take additional microbiological tests. Volatile organic contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally occurring organics are produced during the wood decay process and are carried by rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total Trihalomethanes (TTHM's) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection byproducts when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the chlorine disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, found that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA's maximum contaminant level (MCL) standards. Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids analysis at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water system ranging from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our system. The overall average was 57.0 parts per billion (ppb) for all of 2007's analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. However, informational notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 months as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and 67.1 ppb. The greater amount occurred during the summer months when Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved organics in the water increases. Other than this single group of regulated compounds, Ketchikan has continued to meet or exceed all Federal drinking water standards every year since 1995. Copper (2006) was .478 ppm Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the distribution system. The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the distribution system. The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish to me. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Well, Amber, > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first do a > google using something like [your town/city] public water and see what > comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number of the water > people. , then you can call them and get some information, and likely a > report sent out to you, or they will tell you where to find it online. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > \\Steve// , > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the boiler > heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I don't know > if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that occasionally they > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but not > sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water quality > should be posted somewhere here in town). > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of city > limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I used a test > strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. > > Amber > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:47:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:49:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32442	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

Oh and I just found this bit at the bottom of the 2nd quarter report. KPU has contracted with an engineering firm, CH2M Hill, to develop an optimum solution that will reduce the amount of haloacetic acids present and bring Ketchikan into compliance with the EPA’s regulations. The Ketchikan City Council has approved our planned approach of using chlorine and ultraviolet light (UV) as dual disinfectants followed by ammonia injection to reduce the formation of disinfection byproducts. This is going to start in late 2009, at least I have a warning. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > If it was me, I'd do some research on the copper found in your water > supply, mainly because I have no experience with it directly., and it > can be harmful to some forms of aquatic life. I do not know if this > amount is troublesome or not, but continued exposure to it could be. > > Let's see what some of the other guys have to say. > > I'm not worried about anything else you mentioned. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > Well I found this out from our local water company online, which really > makes me wonder about our water quality: > > "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of > drinking water in the world. > Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that > comes from our faucets are > now asking the same question; "Is my water safe to drink?" Despite the > presence of a particular > group of disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 > of this report) that are > higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is! > > Are there contaminants in Ketchikan's water? > We send water samples every year to independent, certified laboratories > for analysis using the > latest, modern equipment. Of all the regulated inorganic contaminants we > > tested for, only minute > amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of > these were well below the > EPA maximum standards for these contaminants. All of the other inorganic > > contaminants we > tested for were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. > > As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our turbidity > continuously. Turbidity > is a measure of the cloudiness of the water and we test for it because > it is an indicator of > microbiological quality. During periods of heavy rainfall following a > dry spell, we do > experience turbidity swings and take additional microbiological tests. > Volatile organic > contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally > occurring organics are > produced during the wood decay process and are carried by rainfall > runoff into the Ketchikan > Lakes. Both Total Trihalomethanes (TTHM's) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) > are created as > disinfection byproducts when naturally occurring organic matter combines > > with the chlorine > disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. > > Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, > found that they > continue to be at a level well below the EPA's maximum contaminant level > > (MCL) standards. > Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids > analysis at selected sampling > points throughout the municipal water system ranging from the point of > entry to the furthest > reaches of our system. The overall average was 57.0 parts per billion > (ppb) for all of 2007's > analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. > However, informational > notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 > months as the quarterly > haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and 67.1 ppb. The greater amount > > occurred during the > summer months when Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved > organics in the > water increases. Other than this single group of regulated compounds, > Ketchikan has continued > to meet or exceed all Federal drinking water standards every year since > 1995. > > Copper (2006) was .478 ppm > Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb > TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb > HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb > > Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. > Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." > > Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish to > me. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32443	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

Oh sorry, I am wrong, they are only using chlorine, but the site doesn't state how much they use. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You need to look over page 3 of the report to see what level of > chlorine or > chloramine that they use since they say it is higher than the EPA > standards. > > Also, go to my blog and read my little article called "Chlorine-Chloramine > Information" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html> > which has a series of emails between me and one of the scientists at my > local water utility explaining how they only report chlorine on the water > test reports, because that is all the EPA asks for, but they actually use > Chloramine. > > You need to check with someone in the water utility lab and ask them > if they > use Chlorine or Chloramine and at what levels... so you will know if you > have to overcompensate with your dechlor. You had mentioned ammonia in an > earlier thread so I'm thinking your water is being treated with chloramine > which is a compound made by binding chlorine and ammonia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > Well I found this out from our local water company online, which really > makes me wonder about our water quality: > > "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of > drinking > water in the world. > Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that comes > from our faucets are now asking the same question; “Is my water safe to > drink?” Despite the presence of a particular group of disinfectant > byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this report) that are > higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is! > > Are there contaminants in Ketchikan’s water? > We send water samples every year to independent, certified > laboratories for > analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all the regulated > inorganic > contaminants we tested for, only minute amounts of lead and copper were > found present. In each case, all of these were well below the EPA maximum > standards for these contaminants. All of the other inorganic > contaminants we > tested for were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. > > As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our turbidity > continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of the water and we > test for it because it is an indicator of microbiological quality. During > periods of heavy rainfall following a dry spell, we do experience > turbidity > swings and take additional microbiological tests. > Volatile organic > contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally > occurring > organics are produced during the wood decay process and are carried by > rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total Trihalomethanes > (TTHM’s) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection > byproducts > when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the chlorine > disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. > > Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, > found > that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA’s maximum > contaminant > level > (MCL) standards. > Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids analysis > at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water system ranging > from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our system. The overall > average was 57.0 parts per billion > (ppb) for all of 2007’s > analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. > However, informational > notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 months > as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and 67.1 ppb. The > greater amount occurred during the summer months when Ketchikan Lake warms > up and the amount of dissolved organics in the water increases. Other than > this single group of regulated compounds, Ketchikan has continued to > meet or > exceed all Federal drinking water standards every year since 1995. > > Copper (2006) was .478 ppm > Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb > TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb > HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb > > Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. > Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." > > Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish to me. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Well, Amber, > > > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first do > > a google using something like [your town/city] public water and see > > what comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number of > > the water people. , then you can call them and get some information, > > and likely a report sent out to you, or they will tell you where to find > it online. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > \\Steve// , > > > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the boiler > > heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I don't > > know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that > > occasionally they > > > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but not > > sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. > > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water quality > > should be posted somewhere here in town). > > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of city > > limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I used a > > test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:37:45 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:45:19 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater

A "Fishless Cycle" using the plain ammonia can take anywhere from 7-10 days to 4-6 weeks. Do you have any other active tanks going that are already cycled? I didn't look over your plan yet so I'm not sure if you were planning to fully stock it from the start or not. If you are, then you could use some of your existing filter media from one of your cycled tanks and put that in with the filter media of the newly set up tank and then start feeding the tank with plain ammonia up to 4-5ppm and keep feeding the tank daily, as needed until the tank is fully cycling 4-5ppm of ammonia in 12 hours. See my blog page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and right near the top.. in one of the first couple of paragraphs, I have links to a couple of different detailed articles on Fishless Cycling that you can use as a detailed guide. Of course, if you can buy Dr. Tim's One And Only or Bio-Spira, you could instantly cycle the tank so you can add fish the next day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater Also, how long do i cycle it before i add the fish? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone. In light of all my previous posts about setting up a > 20gal freshwater, I have managed to come up with this as the plan. > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:05:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32445	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

I don't think they don't use the chlorine/chloramine yet, but will be next year *points to newer post that you may not have read yet*. I was already told by the fish store to overcompensate with the water conditioner, but they didn't specifically say why. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You need to look over page 3 of the report to see what level of > chlorine or > chloramine that they use since they say it is higher than the EPA > standards. > > Also, go to my blog and read my little article called "Chlorine-Chloramine > Information" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html> > which has a series of emails between me and one of the scientists at my > local water utility explaining how they only report chlorine on the water > test reports, because that is all the EPA asks for, but they actually use > Chloramine. > > You need to check with someone in the water utility lab and ask them > if they > use Chlorine or Chloramine and at what levels... so you will know if you > have to overcompensate with your dechlor. You had mentioned ammonia in an > earlier thread so I'm thinking your water is being treated with chloramine > which is a compound made by binding chlorine and ammonia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > Well I found this out from our local water company online, which really > makes me wonder about our water quality: > > "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of > drinking > water in the world. > Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that comes > from our faucets are now asking the same question; “Is my water safe to > drink?” Despite the presence of a particular group of disinfectant > byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this report) that are > higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is! > > Are there contaminants in Ketchikan’s water? > We send water samples every year to independent, certified > laboratories for > analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all the regulated > inorganic > contaminants we tested for, only minute amounts of lead and copper were > found present. In each case, all of these were well below the EPA maximum > standards for these contaminants. All of the other inorganic > contaminants we > tested for were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. > > As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our turbidity > continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of the water and we > test for it because it is an indicator of microbiological quality. During > periods of heavy rainfall following a dry spell, we do experience > turbidity > swings and take additional microbiological tests. > Volatile organic > contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally > occurring > organics are produced during the wood decay process and are carried by > rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total Trihalomethanes > (TTHM’s) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection > byproducts > when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the chlorine > disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. > > Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, > found > that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA’s maximum > contaminant > level > (MCL) standards. > Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids analysis > at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water system ranging > from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our system. The overall > average was 57.0 parts per billion > (ppb) for all of 2007’s > analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. > However, informational > notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 months > as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and 67.1 ppb. The > greater amount occurred during the summer months when Ketchikan Lake warms > up and the amount of dissolved organics in the water increases. Other than > this single group of regulated compounds, Ketchikan has continued to > meet or > exceed all Federal drinking water standards every year since 1995. > > Copper (2006) was .478 ppm > Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb > TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb > HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb > > Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. > Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." > > Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish to me. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Well, Amber, > > > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first do > > a google using something like [your town/city] public water and see > > what comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number of > > the water people. , then you can call them and get some information, > > and likely a report sent out to you, or they will tell you where to find > it online. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > \\Steve// , > > > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the boiler > > heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I don't > > know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that > > occasionally they > > > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but not > > sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. > > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water quality > > should be posted somewhere here in town). > > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of city > > limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I used a > > test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:37:45 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:45:19 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

So right now, it appears they are overdosing with chlorine and they mention trace levels of heavy metals (Lead, copper, etc.). You should get a tap water dechlor product that treats for chlorine and heavy metals (most do nowadays). I use either "API Tap Water Conditioner" or "Top Fin Tap Water Dechlorinator". These are both more concentrated than most of the other dechlor products out there so you only need 1ml per 10G where other products at similar prices need 5ml or even 10ml per 10G. In your case, you could double the dose to 2ml per 10G since you know they are overdosing the chlorine right now. Once they start doing the additional injecting of ammonia (I'm not sure why they don't just using chloramine) then you might want to switch your dechlor product from one of the above to SeaChem Prime which will also treat ammonia and make it non-toxic... although with your low pH, it would take a LOT of ammonia to become toxic anyhow. For pH's down in the 6's, you could have ammonia at 3-4ppm before it's toxic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) Oh sorry, I am wrong, they are only using chlorine, but the site doesn't state how much they use. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You need to look over page 3 of the report to see what level of > chlorine or chloramine that they use since they say it is higher than > the EPA standards. > > Also, go to my blog and read my little article called > "Chlorine-Chloramine Information" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information. > html > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information > .html> which has a series of emails between me and one of the > scientists at my local water utility explaining how they only report > chlorine on the water test reports, because that is all the EPA asks > for, but they actually use Chloramine. > > You need to check with someone in the water utility lab and ask them > if they use Chlorine or Chloramine and at what levels... so you will > know if you have to overcompensate with your dechlor. You had > mentioned ammonia in an earlier thread so I'm thinking your water is > being treated with chloramine which is a compound made by binding > chlorine and ammonia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > Well I found this out from our local water company online, which > really makes me wonder about our water quality: > > "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of > drinking water in the world. > Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that > comes from our faucets are now asking the same question; “Is my water > safe to drink?” Despite the presence of a particular group of > disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this > report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is! > > Are there contaminants in Ketchikan’s water? > We send water samples every year to independent, certified > laboratories for analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all > the regulated inorganic contaminants we tested for, only minute > amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of > these were well below the EPA maximum standards for these > contaminants. All of the other inorganic contaminants we tested for > were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. > > As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our > turbidity continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of > the water and we test for it because it is an indicator of > microbiological quality. During periods of heavy rainfall following a > dry spell, we do experience turbidity swings and take additional > microbiological tests. > Volatile organic > contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally > occurring organics are produced during the wood decay process and are > carried by rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total > Trihalomethanes > (TTHM’s) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection > byproducts when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the > chlorine disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. > > Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, > found that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA’s maximum > contaminant level > (MCL) standards. > Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids > analysis at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water > system ranging from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our > system. The overall average was 57.0 parts per billion > (ppb) for all of 2007’s > analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. > However, informational > notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 > months as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and > 67.1 ppb. The greater amount occurred during the summer months when > Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved organics in the > water increases. Other than this single group of regulated compounds, > Ketchikan has continued to meet or exceed all Federal drinking water > standards every year since 1995. > > Copper (2006) was .478 ppm > Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb > TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb > HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb > > Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. > Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." > > Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish to me. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Well, Amber, > > > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first > > do a google using something like [your town/city] public water and > > see what comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number > > of the water people. , then you can call them and get some > > information, and likely a report sent out to you, or they will tell > > you where to find > it online. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > \\Steve// , > > > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the > > boiler heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I > > don't know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that > > occasionally they > > > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but > > not sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. > > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water > > quality should be posted somewhere here in town). > > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of > > city limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I > > used a test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 9:37:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 9:45:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32447	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

I find it a bit frustrating that the information on their website lists everything in our water that is a byproduct, but they don't state exactly how much and what they put INTO our water... Apparently I'm going to have to call John Kleinegger and find out what he has put into our water ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Shouldn't the dechlor that also treats for heavy metals also handle the > trace amounts of copper? The report mentioned they are below the EPA > standards so dechlor products should be formulated to handle the amounts > allowed in tap water.. right? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > If it was me, I'd do some research on the copper found in your water > supply, > mainly because I have no experience with it directly., and it can be > harmful > to some forms of aquatic life. I do not know if this amount is troublesome > or not, but continued exposure to it could be. > > Let's see what some of the other guys have to say. > > I'm not worried about anything else you mentioned. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > Well I found this out from our local water company online, which really > makes me wonder about our water quality: > > "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of > drinking > water in the world. > Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that comes > from our faucets are now asking the same question; "Is my water safe to > drink?" Despite the presence of a particular group of disinfectant > byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this report) that are > higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is! > > Are there contaminants in Ketchikan's water? > We send water samples every year to independent, certified > laboratories for > analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all the regulated > inorganic > contaminants we > > tested for, only minute > amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of these > were well below the EPA maximum standards for these contaminants. All > of the > other inorganic > > contaminants we > tested for were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. > > As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our turbidity > continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of the water and we > test for it because it is an indicator of microbiological quality. During > periods of heavy rainfall following a dry spell, we do experience > turbidity > swings and take additional microbiological tests. > Volatile organic > contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally > occurring > organics are produced during the wood decay process and are carried by > rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total Trihalomethanes > (TTHM's) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection > byproducts > when naturally occurring organic matter combines > > with the chlorine > disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. > > Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, > found > that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA's maximum > contaminant > level > > (MCL) standards. > Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids analysis > at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water system ranging > from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our system. The overall > average was 57.0 parts per billion > (ppb) for all of 2007's > analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. > However, informational > notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 months > as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and 67.1 ppb. The > greater amount > > occurred during the > summer months when Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved > organics in the water increases. Other than this single group of regulated > compounds, Ketchikan has continued to meet or exceed all Federal drinking > water standards every year since 1995. > > Copper (2006) was .478 ppm > Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb > TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb > HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb > > Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. > Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." > > Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish to me. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Well, Amber, > > > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first do > a > > google using something like [your town/city] public water and see what > > comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number of the > water > > people. , then you can call them and get some information, and likely > a > > report sent out to you, or they will tell you where to find it online. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > \\Steve// , > > > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the boiler > > heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I don't > know > > if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that occasionally > they > > > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but not > > sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into > that. > > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water quality > > should be posted somewhere here in town). > > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of city > > limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I used a > test > > strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:47:56 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:49:40 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

Well, this comment "... Despite the presence of a particular group of disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is!", leads me to believe that the "disinfectant" means chlorine. If it doesn't, then what is the disinfectant they are using? The two most common are either chlorine or chloramine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) I don't think they don't use the chlorine/chloramine yet, but will be next year *points to newer post that you may not have read yet*. I was already told by the fish store to overcompensate with the water conditioner, but they didn't specifically say why. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You need to look over page 3 of the report to see what level of > chlorine or chloramine that they use since they say it is higher than > the EPA standards. > > Also, go to my blog and read my little article called > "Chlorine-Chloramine Information" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information. > html > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information > .html> which has a series of emails between me and one of the > scientists at my local water utility explaining how they only report > chlorine on the water test reports, because that is all the EPA asks > for, but they actually use Chloramine. > > You need to check with someone in the water utility lab and ask them > if they use Chlorine or Chloramine and at what levels... so you will > know if you have to overcompensate with your dechlor. You had > mentioned ammonia in an earlier thread so I'm thinking your water is > being treated with chloramine which is a compound made by binding > chlorine and ammonia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > Well I found this out from our local water company online, which > really makes me wonder about our water quality: > > "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of > drinking water in the world. > Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that > comes from our faucets are now asking the same question; “Is my water > safe to drink?” Despite the presence of a particular group of > disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this > report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it is! > > Are there contaminants in Ketchikan’s water? > We send water samples every year to independent, certified > laboratories for analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all > the regulated inorganic contaminants we tested for, only minute > amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of > these were well below the EPA maximum standards for these > contaminants. All of the other inorganic contaminants we tested for > were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. > > As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our > turbidity continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of > the water and we test for it because it is an indicator of > microbiological quality. During periods of heavy rainfall following a > dry spell, we do experience turbidity swings and take additional > microbiological tests. > Volatile organic > contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally > occurring organics are produced during the wood decay process and are > carried by rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total > Trihalomethanes > (TTHM’s) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection > byproducts when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the > chlorine disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. > > Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, > found that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA’s maximum > contaminant level > (MCL) standards. > Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids > analysis at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water > system ranging from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our > system. The overall average was 57.0 parts per billion > (ppb) for all of 2007’s > analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. > However, informational > notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 > months as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and > 67.1 ppb. The greater amount occurred during the summer months when > Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved organics in the > water increases. Other than this single group of regulated compounds, > Ketchikan has continued to meet or exceed all Federal drinking water > standards every year since 1995. > > Copper (2006) was .478 ppm > Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb > TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb > HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb > > Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. > Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > distribution system. > The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." > > Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish to me. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Well, Amber, > > > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first > > do a google using something like [your town/city] public water and > > see what comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number > > of the water people. , then you can call them and get some > > information, and likely a report sent out to you, or they will tell > > you where to find > it online. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > \\Steve// , > > > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the > > boiler heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I > > don't know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that > > occasionally they > > > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but > > not sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into that. > > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water > > quality should be posted somewhere here in town). > > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of > > city limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I > > used a test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on softness. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 9:37:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 9:45:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:08:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:16:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32449	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

Doing water changes on an already cycled tank with tap water with ammonia in it wouldn't really do much harm though would it? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > So right now, it appears they are overdosing with chlorine and they > mention > trace levels of heavy metals (Lead, copper, etc.). > > You should get a tap water dechlor product that treats for chlorine and > heavy metals (most do nowadays). I use either "API Tap Water Conditioner" > or "Top Fin Tap Water Dechlorinator". These are both more concentrated > than > most of the other dechlor products out there so you only need 1ml per 10G > where other products at similar prices need 5ml or even 10ml per 10G. In > your case, you could double the dose to 2ml per 10G since you know > they are > overdosing the chlorine right now. > > Once they start doing the additional injecting of ammonia (I'm not > sure why > they don't just using chloramine) then you might want to switch your > dechlor > product from one of the above to SeaChem Prime which will also treat > ammonia > and make it non-toxic... although with your low pH, it would take a LOT of > ammonia to become toxic anyhow. For pH's down in the 6's, you could have > ammonia at 3-4ppm before it's toxic. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > Oh sorry, I am wrong, they are only using chlorine, but the site doesn't > state how much they use. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You need to look over page 3 of the report to see what level of > > chlorine or chloramine that they use since they say it is higher than > > the EPA standards. > > > > Also, go to my blog and read my little article called > > "Chlorine-Chloramine Information" > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.> > > html > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information> > > .html> which has a series of emails between me and one of the > > scientists at my local water utility explaining how they only report > > chlorine on the water test reports, because that is all the EPA asks > > for, but they actually use Chloramine. > > > > You need to check with someone in the water utility lab and ask them > > if they use Chlorine or Chloramine and at what levels... so you will > > know if you have to overcompensate with your dechlor. You had > > mentioned ammonia in an earlier thread so I'm thinking your water is > > being treated with chloramine which is a compound made by binding > > chlorine and ammonia. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > Well I found this out from our local water company online, which > > really makes me wonder about our water quality: > > > > "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of > > drinking water in the world. > > Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that > > comes from our faucets are now asking the same question; “Is my water > > safe to drink?” Despite the presence of a particular group of > > disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this > > report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it > is! > > > > Are there contaminants in Ketchikan’s water? > > We send water samples every year to independent, certified > > laboratories for analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all > > the regulated inorganic contaminants we tested for, only minute > > amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of > > these were well below the EPA maximum standards for these > > contaminants. All of the other inorganic contaminants we tested for > > were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. > > > > As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our > > turbidity continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of > > the water and we test for it because it is an indicator of > > microbiological quality. During periods of heavy rainfall following a > > dry spell, we do experience turbidity swings and take additional > > microbiological tests. > > Volatile organic > > contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally > > occurring organics are produced during the wood decay process and are > > carried by rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total > > Trihalomethanes > > (TTHM’s) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection > > byproducts when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the > > chlorine disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. > > > > Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, > > found that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA’s maximum > > contaminant level > > (MCL) standards. > > Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids > > analysis at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water > > system ranging from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our > > system. The overall average was 57.0 parts per billion > > (ppb) for all of 2007’s > > analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. > > However, informational > > notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 > > months as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and > > 67.1 ppb. The greater amount occurred during the summer months when > > Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved organics in the > > water increases. Other than this single group of regulated compounds, > > Ketchikan has continued to meet or exceed all Federal drinking water > > standards every year since 1995. > > > > Copper (2006) was .478 ppm > > Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb > > TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb > > HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb > > > > Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > > distribution system. > > The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. > > Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > > distribution system. > > The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." > > > > Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish > to me. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Well, Amber, > > > > > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first > > > do a google using something like [your town/city] public water and > > > see what comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number > > > of the water people. , then you can call them and get some > > > information, and likely a report sent out to you, or they will tell > > > you where to find > > it online. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > > > \\Steve// , > > > > > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the > > > boiler heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I > > > don't know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that > > > occasionally they > > > > > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but > > > not sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into > that. > > > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > > > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water > > > quality should be posted somewhere here in town). > > > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of > > > city limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I > > > used a test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on > softness. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > ________________________________ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>> > >> : > > Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > > 9:37:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>> > >> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > > 9:45:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 9:58:12 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:13:17 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32450	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

It states that they use chlorine, and the byproducts are the trihalomethanes and haloacetic acids. They flush the hydrants regularly to reduce the unreacted chlorine residue from entering the distribution system. Though they don't state how much actually DOES enter it ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, this comment "... Despite the presence of a particular group of > disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this > report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it > is!", leads me to believe that the "disinfectant" means chlorine. If it > doesn't, then what is the disinfectant they are using? The two most common > are either chlorine or chloramine. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > I don't think they don't use the chlorine/chloramine yet, but will be next > year *points to newer post that you may not have read yet*. I was already > told by the fish store to overcompensate with the water conditioner, but > they didn't specifically say why. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You need to look over page 3 of the report to see what level of > > chlorine or chloramine that they use since they say it is higher than > > the EPA standards. > > > > Also, go to my blog and read my little article called > > "Chlorine-Chloramine Information" > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.> > > html > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information> > > .html> which has a series of emails between me and one of the > > scientists at my local water utility explaining how they only report > > chlorine on the water test reports, because that is all the EPA asks > > for, but they actually use Chloramine. > > > > You need to check with someone in the water utility lab and ask them > > if they use Chlorine or Chloramine and at what levels... so you will > > know if you have to overcompensate with your dechlor. You had > > mentioned ammonia in an earlier thread so I'm thinking your water is > > being treated with chloramine which is a compound made by binding > > chlorine and ammonia. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > Well I found this out from our local water company online, which > > really makes me wonder about our water quality: > > > > "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of > > drinking water in the world. > > Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that > > comes from our faucets are now asking the same question; “Is my water > > safe to drink?” Despite the presence of a particular group of > > disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of this > > report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, it > is! > > > > Are there contaminants in Ketchikan’s water? > > We send water samples every year to independent, certified > > laboratories for analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all > > the regulated inorganic contaminants we tested for, only minute > > amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of > > these were well below the EPA maximum standards for these > > contaminants. All of the other inorganic contaminants we tested for > > were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. > > > > As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our > > turbidity continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of > > the water and we test for it because it is an indicator of > > microbiological quality. During periods of heavy rainfall following a > > dry spell, we do experience turbidity swings and take additional > > microbiological tests. > > Volatile organic > > contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally > > occurring organics are produced during the wood decay process and are > > carried by rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total > > Trihalomethanes > > (TTHM’s) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection > > byproducts when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the > > chlorine disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. > > > > Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM group, > > found that they continue to be at a level well below the EPA’s maximum > > contaminant level > > (MCL) standards. > > Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids > > analysis at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water > > system ranging from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of our > > system. The overall average was 57.0 parts per billion > > (ppb) for all of 2007’s > > analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. > > However, informational > > notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 > > months as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and > > 67.1 ppb. The greater amount occurred during the summer months when > > Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved organics in the > > water increases. Other than this single group of regulated compounds, > > Ketchikan has continued to meet or exceed all Federal drinking water > > standards every year since 1995. > > > > Copper (2006) was .478 ppm > > Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb > > TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb > > HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb > > > > Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > > distribution system. > > The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. > > Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > > distribution system. > > The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." > > > > Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish > to me. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Well, Amber, > > > > > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, first > > > do a google using something like [your town/city] public water and > > > see what comes up. At the very least you should get the phone number > > > of the water people. , then you can call them and get some > > > information, and likely a report sent out to you, or they will tell > > > you where to find > > it online. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > > > \\Steve// , > > > > > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the > > > boiler heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). I > > > don't know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know that > > > occasionally they > > > > > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but > > > not sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look into > that. > > > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff isn't > > > readily available to the public, but I would assume that water > > > quality should be posted somewhere here in town). > > > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of > > > city limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I > > > used a test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went on > softness. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > ________________________________ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>> > >> : > > Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > > 9:37:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>> > >> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > > 9:45:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 10:08:18 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:16:15 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32451	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf frogs and dead fish

I personally have dwarf frogs with oto cats and have had them for months now, with no problem. The thing that may have happened is the LFS that you purchased the frogs from may have sold you clawed frogs instead of dwarf ones. This is a common mistake, due to the similarites of young clawed frogs and dwarf frogs. Clawed frogs are more aggressive and are not recommended to be kept with small fish like Oto cats. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Okay, I have noticed that my dwarf frog will eat smaller fish that are > already dead, but is it possible for him to eat a slower moving bottom > feeder that is small? I have lost a couple of ottocynclis catfish in the > last couple of days and they didn't just die, something chewed them up > and left some bits for me to find. Nothing in my tank is out of wack, no > ammonia spike, etc. So I'm wondering what is killing my fish. > I have such terrible luck with fish ;) > I shouldn't have anything in the tank that's eating anything else, only > semi-aggressive fish or peaceful fish. I basically have fin nippers and > peaceful ones ;) lol. Out of my 5 ottocynclis cats I can only count 2 in > the tank now, so I may have even lost a 3rd one. These are the only fish > coming up dead, everything else is very active and happy looking. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32452	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf frogs and dead fish

I know I have a dwarf because they actually had both in stock (regular clawed frogs in albino and normal coloring, and then the dwarf ones all in a separate tank). So unless there's another frog out there that I'm unaware of, I'm pretty sure I have a dwarf frog, he's about 3/4-1" big, just a little guy. Amber va22_vyshys wrote: > > I personally have dwarf frogs with oto cats and have had them for > months now, with no problem. The thing that may have happened is the > LFS that you purchased the frogs from may have sold you clawed frogs > instead of dwarf ones. This is a common mistake, due to the > similarites of young clawed frogs and dwarf frogs. Clawed frogs are > more aggressive and are not recommended to be kept with small fish > like Oto cats. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Okay, I have noticed that my dwarf frog will eat smaller fish that > are > > already dead, but is it possible for him to eat a slower moving > bottom > > feeder that is small? I have lost a couple of ottocynclis catfish > in the > > last couple of days and they didn't just die, something chewed them > up > > and left some bits for me to find. Nothing in my tank is out of > wack, no > > ammonia spike, etc. So I'm wondering what is killing my fish. > > I have such terrible luck with fish ;) > > I shouldn't have anything in the tank that's eating anything else, > only > > semi-aggressive fish or peaceful fish. I basically have fin nippers > and > > peaceful ones ;) lol. Out of my 5 ottocynclis cats I can only count > 2 in > > the tank now, so I may have even lost a 3rd one. These are the only > fish > > coming up dead, everything else is very active and happy looking. > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32453	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/4/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?

The fish cited are just examples of possible dither fish for the Convicts, all getting to at least 3/4 the length of these Cichlids. You could use either Striped or T Barbs as well, but then too, some of these large Barbs as these three I mentioned will get to 5" which would preclude the Convicts from considering them as a meal -- but would also limit the number of them for inclusion in your 40 gallon tank; fortunately the aquarium is of a good size. There are smaller Barbs (Ruby, Ticto and Tiger) and Danios (Pearl) that you can use which get to about half the length of your Convicts, which would be fine but they are generally first offered at a size of about half their adult length (as are many fish), which could make it more dangerous for them. As I write this, I realize that this is one of my replies which never made it through the first time. Other things to consider in defusing your Convicts' demeanor of insecurity -- which is what's causing this behavior is to include some floating plants such as the floating variety of Water Sprite (sometimes called Water Fern). Some additional rockwork and/or well-boiled (w/ baking soda) driftwood that won't leach tannins. I noticed too that this behavior has been going on now for at least three weeks (maybe more by now), and at this same time you are suggesting they are due for a water change. I don't know if by this, you are saying that their last water change was at least three weeks ago, but if that's the case such PWC intervals are far too infrequent. As nitrates build up along with acid-inducing consequenses as a result of the natural cycling process, these influences can affect the nervous system of the fish through the pores of their lateral line, causing them to behave in this manner. You need to change part of the water more frequently, if you're not already doing so, and/or increase the volumes of these PWC's. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > Thanks so much, Raymond; that's very helpful. Petco didn't have any > giant danios, and I didn't know till now about rainbowfish or clown > barbs. Hubby works in a metro area where there are better fish stores, > and I might get him to check these out. Thanks. > > Shirl > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Yet another example of the help not knowing the right answers nor > > having the right information, as they're not knowledgeable enough. > > Large, fast dither fish such as Rainbowfish, Giant Danios and Clown > > Barbs will certainly help draw your Convicts out by allowing in them to > > release their insecurity. These fish are much faster than Cichlids > > just in their normal mode of behavior and if by chance they get chased > > (which would be minimal at best) they'd have no problem at all in > > avoiding a Cichlid, at the same time that the Cichlid would quite soon > > learn that its efforts in trying to catch these fish would be in vain. > > > > The Convicts' behavior to chase any other fish, if they so chose to, > > would be to "escourt" these fish from their territory -- not to eat > > them unless these fish were of a size as to fit in the Convicts' > > mouths. They would not attempt to chase down fish half their size to > > kill them and tear them apart into small enough sizes where they only > > then could be devoured. Many Cichlid hobbyists use dither fish for > > similar and varied purposes -- which is why the concept of dither fish > > exists -- its real and it has been proven. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@> > > wrote: > > > > > > In another thread, I asked about ways to get my two male convict > > > cichlids to come out of hiding. It was suggested that I add dither > > > fish; tiger barb and giant danio were recommended. Okay, so I went to > > > my lfs (Petco, sorry to say, but it's the only game in town). The gal > > > in the fish dept. said the cichlids would kill any smaller fish and > > > eat them, so I didn't get anything. I thought the idea behind dither > > > fish was that they are faster than the cichlids and could avoid them, > > > but that their presence would draw them out. I don't want to use any > > > kind of fish as feeder fish, so what do you think, guys? Is there a > > > fish that won't become cichlid food? I haven't seen my two guys for > > days. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32454	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Blood Worms, was: and a question about my male crown-tail beta.

Amber, I noticed this seemingly inconsequential error when it was first posted, but chose not to comment on it. Now, with members (as yourself) coming under the wrong impression of just what these insects/foods are, it appears its time to correct this misconception. Coming right to the point, bloodworms are not mosquito larvae. Mosquitos (all mosquitos) are of the Genus Anopheles. Bloodworms are the larvae of Chironomid (Midge) flies, a harmless gnat-type of insect. The difference in the appearance between these two larvae can be easily seen: mosquito larvae are grayish, while Chironomus larvae are bright red as a result of containing hemoglobin to absorb and store oxygen (no its not from human blood, LOL). Notice though, Amber, that Lenny said freeze dried bloodworms can cause constipation -- not live or frozen bloodworms, which are an excellent food source. Freeze-dried foods are just that -- DRIED -- and when injested and then absorb moisture they can compact in the intestines. Anabantoids (mostly carnivorous -- insect eaters) such as Bettas have a shorter digestive system than do herbiforous fish and can be affected moreso by the effects of swelling, moisture absorbing freeze-dried foods of any type. As Bettas are primarily mosquito eaters in the wild, they would have no trouble ordinarily eating frozen (thawed) bloodworms, another similar food to what they've evolved to use. Frozen bloodworms are one of the best and one of the most nutritious foods you can feed most fish. Exceptions would include some of the specialty feeders (Tropheus, etc.) of Lake Tanganyika and some Mbuna species of Lake Malawi, especially of the Genus Labeotropheus (mainly, an herbivore). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > Yes I did know that bloodworms are mosquito larvae, but I didn't know > they lead to constipation, very good to know, thanks :) Are beta's just > prone to constipation or do bloodworms have a chance to cause > constipation in most freshwater fish? > How can I coerce him into eating a shelled pea if he's not eating at > all? Any tips? lol. > > Oh and my test strips read both KH and GH, I just did a test a few > moments ago and it measured my KH somewhere near 0, and my GH is > somewhere between 50-75 ppm, I will do another test after work and see > if it reads any different. I really wonder how accurate it is since it > also reads my PH at lower than 6.2 (it doesn't show results lower than > 6.2, so it's hard to tell exactly how well it's reading). > I was under the assumption that KH can be adjusted with aquarium salts, > is this correct? The rest of the readings look right though, no > nitrites, no chlorine and the nitrates barely read on the test strip, > which is what my regular tests say with the drops and vials. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32455	From: Lisa	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater

Kay thanks. I can make it higher. But the tetras can live in the same temp as the betta yeah? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > The temperature you list may be a bit too cool for the last two fish you mention, the betta and the rams. Both fish should be kept at warmer temperatures. If it was not for the tetras, I'd say you can just keep the tank at room temperature. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater > > Hi everyone. In light of all my previous posts about setting up a > 20gal freshwater, I have managed to come up with this as the plan. > > It's a 22 gal tank. > It has a 'aqua one' U/G filter and a 100wat heater which will be kept > at 24*C (73*F?) > > The substrate will be mostly white gravel with some red and blue > mixed through because of the gravel I already have in the 12inch and > smaller tanks. > > The plants will all be silk and/or plastic with some driftwood and > some smooth river pebbles. > > The fish will include. > > 1x peppered cory > 7x black skirt tetras > 2x zebra danios (Already in the 12 inch tank) > 4x Golden madakas (Aleady in the 12 inch) > 2x white clouds.(Aleady in the 12 inch) > 1X Male CT Betta (Already in a small tank of his own) > and a male and female German blue ram cichlid. > > Lisa (Australia) > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32456	From: Lisa	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater

This will be my first tank with a filter --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > A "Fishless Cycle" using the plain ammonia can take anywhere from 7- 10 days > to 4-6 weeks. Do you have any other active tanks going that are already > cycled? I didn't look over your plan yet so I'm not sure if you were > planning to fully stock it from the start or not. If you are, then you > could use some of your existing filter media from one of your cycled tanks > and put that in with the filter media of the newly set up tank and then > start feeding the tank with plain ammonia up to 4-5ppm and keep feeding the > tank daily, as needed until the tank is fully cycling 4-5ppm of ammonia in > 12 hours. See my blog page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and right near the > top.. in one of the first couple of paragraphs, I have links to a couple of > different detailed articles on Fishless Cycling that you can use as a > detailed guide. > > Of course, if you can buy Dr. Tim's One And Only or Bio-Spira, you could > instantly cycle the tank so you can add fish the next day. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater > > Also, how long do i cycle it before i add the fish? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Hi everyone. In light of all my previous posts about setting up a > > 20gal freshwater, I have managed to come up with this as the plan. > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:05:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32457	From: Tony Davis	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Filter media

Hi all I have just purchased a Sera internal filter fil 120, to use in my aquarium. I noticed it contains 3 different types of filter media, 1 - the regular foam, 2 - siporax, and 3 - activated carbon. I have read in various places that carbon isn't that good to use in an aquarium with plants, so I was wondering if I should replace the carbon with filter wool? Kind regards Tony -- Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) (water quality)

It shouldn't pose a problem on a cycled tank... depending on the ammonia level. For example, in my area where the water is treated with chloramine, when I use my dechlor, it breaks the bond of the chloramine and then breaks up the chlorine to where it's no longer harmful to the fish but there is left over up to 0.5ppm of ammonia. In a new tank, or if someone is doing a large 90% PWC (not recommended for many reasons), that would raise the tank's ammonia level to 0.4ppm (90% of the 0.5ppm) and with my pH in the 7.8 range, that level could get bothersome to the fish until it cycles down. But if only doing a 25% PWC, then it would only introduce 0.125ppm of ammonia (25% of the 0.5ppm) to the tank which is almost negligible. Of course, for folks with lower pH water, then the ammonia level could be much higher before it would become toxic but it's still not good for the fish to be in higher levels of ammonia. Remember the key word is "toxic". Compare it to a human breathing hair spray or some aerosol cleaning product... it might take a lot to become toxic but even breathing any directly is not good for us. So any ammonia or any other chemical in the water has to be breathed by the fish since they breath by pushing the water over their gills. And it's not like fish in the wild or us where we humans can usually leave an area where something is bothering our breathing... our pet fish are stuck in the tank. This is why it's so important to do frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, vacuuming the gravel, etc... and to know what is in the water we are putting into our tanks as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) Doing water changes on an already cycled tank with tap water with ammonia in it wouldn't really do much harm though would it? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > So right now, it appears they are overdosing with chlorine and they > mention trace levels of heavy metals (Lead, copper, etc.). > > You should get a tap water dechlor product that treats for chlorine > and heavy metals (most do nowadays). I use either "API Tap Water Conditioner" > or "Top Fin Tap Water Dechlorinator". These are both more concentrated > than most of the other dechlor products out there so you only need 1ml > per 10G where other products at similar prices need 5ml or even 10ml > per 10G. In your case, you could double the dose to 2ml per 10G since > you know they are overdosing the chlorine right now. > > Once they start doing the additional injecting of ammonia (I'm not > sure why they don't just using chloramine) then you might want to > switch your dechlor product from one of the above to SeaChem Prime > which will also treat ammonia and make it non-toxic... although with > your low pH, it would take a LOT of ammonia to become toxic anyhow. > For pH's down in the 6's, you could have ammonia at 3-4ppm before it's > toxic. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > Oh sorry, I am wrong, they are only using chlorine, but the site > doesn't state how much they use. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You need to look over page 3 of the report to see what level of > > chlorine or chloramine that they use since they say it is higher > > than the EPA standards. > > > > Also, go to my blog and read my little article called > > "Chlorine-Chloramine Information" > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information > .> > > html > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information > > > > .html> which has a series of emails between me and one of the > > scientists at my local water utility explaining how they only report > > chlorine on the water test reports, because that is all the EPA asks > > for, but they actually use Chloramine. > > > > You need to check with someone in the water utility lab and ask them > > if they use Chlorine or Chloramine and at what levels... so you will > > know if you have to overcompensate with your dechlor. You had > > mentioned ammonia in an earlier thread so I'm thinking your water is > > being treated with chloramine which is a compound made by binding > > chlorine and ammonia. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > Well I found this out from our local water company online, which > > really makes me wonder about our water quality: > > > > "Ketchikan enjoys one of the purest and most plentiful supplies of > > drinking water in the world. > > Nevertheless, many of us who once gave no thought to the water that > > comes from our faucets are now asking the same question; “Is my > > water safe to drink?” Despite the presence of a particular group of > > disinfectant byproducts (discussed in greater detail on page 3 of > > this > > report) that are higher than EPA standards, our answer remains: Yes, > > it > is! > > > > Are there contaminants in Ketchikan’s water? > > We send water samples every year to independent, certified > > laboratories for analysis using the latest, modern equipment. Of all > > the regulated inorganic contaminants we tested for, only minute > > amounts of lead and copper were found present. In each case, all of > > these were well below the EPA maximum standards for these > > contaminants. All of the other inorganic contaminants we tested for > > were below the detection limits of the analytical equipment. > > > > As an unfiltered water system, we are required to monitor our > > turbidity continuously. Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of > > the water and we test for it because it is an indicator of > > microbiological quality. During periods of heavy rainfall following > > a dry spell, we do experience turbidity swings and take additional > > microbiological tests. > > Volatile organic > > contaminants were also found. These are created when the naturally > > occurring organics are produced during the wood decay process and > > are carried by rainfall runoff into the Ketchikan Lakes. Both Total > > Trihalomethanes > > (TTHM’s) and haloacetic acids (HAA5) are created as disinfection > > byproducts when naturally occurring organic matter combines with the > > chlorine disinfectant added to kill microorganisms. > > > > Testing for the 59 compounds, which collectively form the TTHM > > group, found that they continue to be at a level well below the > > EPA’s maximum contaminant level > > (MCL) standards. > > Samples were also collected quarterly by KPU for haloacetic acids > > analysis at selected sampling points throughout the municipal water > > system ranging from the point of entry to the furthest reaches of > > our system. The overall average was 57.0 parts per billion > > (ppb) for all of 2007’s > > analytical tests which is less than the haloacetic acid MCL of 60 ppb. > > However, informational > > notices were still required and were sent to each ratepayer every 4 > > months as the quarterly haloacetic averages ranged between 44.0 and > > 67.1 ppb. The greater amount occurred during the summer months when > > Ketchikan Lake warms up and the amount of dissolved organics in the > > water increases. Other than this single group of regulated > > compounds, Ketchikan has continued to meet or exceed all Federal > > drinking water standards every year since 1995. > > > > Copper (2006) was .478 ppm > > Lead (2006) was 14.4 ppb > > TTHM (total triahalomethanes in 2007) was 56 ppb > > HAA5 Haloacetic Acids (2007) was 57 ppb > > > > Note (4) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > > distribution system. > > The TTHM analytical results ranged between 28 and 86.2 ppb. > > Note (5) In 2007, a total of 16 samples were taken throughout the > > distribution system. > > The HAA5 analytical results ranged between 37.5 and 84.7 ppb." > > > > Does any of that answer anyones questions? LOL It's like gibberish > to me. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Well, Amber, > > > > > > Hop on the dog sled and head down to town hall <g>. Actually, > > > first do a google using something like [your town/city] public > > > water and see what comes up. At the very least you should get the > > > phone number of the water people. , then you can call them and get > > > some information, and likely a report sent out to you, or they > > > will tell you where to find > > it online. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:39 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) (water quality) > > > > > > \\Steve// , > > > > > > Yes you are correct, I have hot water heating (baseboards), the > > > boiler heats up the hot water for the entire building (8 condos). > > > I don't know if they add softeners to the water or not, I know > > > that occasionally they > > > > > > send out a notice when something in the water supply changes, but > > > not sure where I would get info on my water. I will have to look > > > into > that. > > > I am in the US, but I'm in Alaska (which means a lot of stuff > > > isn't readily available to the public, but I would assume that > > > water quality should be posted somewhere here in town). > > > I think the soft water is only city water (a lot of people out of > > > city limits here have cisterns to collect the rainwater), when I > > > used a test strip to test it, it was as low as the test strip went > > > on > softness. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > ________________________________ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> >> > >> : > > Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > > 9:37:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> >> > >> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > > 9:45:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 9:58:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 10:13:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 10:28:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 5:06:20 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Blood Worms, was: and a question about my male crown-tail beta.

Hmmmm... I think it was I who mentioned it first and I wish I could figure out where I mistakenly learned that bad info... maybe a pet store employee.. LOL I decided to do a little Googling to see if I could find a normally good source that was giving bad info but nothing jumped out at me. I did see this on Wikipedia (not what I normally consider a good source though) which says there are three critters that are often called blood worms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodworms Blood worm or bloodworm is an ambiguous term and can refer to: -The larva of a non-biting midge (Family Chironomidae) containing hemoglobin -The polychaete Glycera, often used for fishing bait -The worm, Lumbriculus variegatus, more commonly called blackworm, but often misnamed by pet stores Whew.. at least I was right about the freeze-dried foods and the much shorter body cavity though. I guess I'll never know where I learned that bad info. Thanks for setting me straight! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Blood Worms, was: and a question about my male crown-tail beta. Amber, I noticed this seemingly inconsequential error when it was first posted, but chose not to comment on it. Now, with members (as yourself) coming under the wrong impression of just what these insects/foods are, it appears its time to correct this misconception. Coming right to the point, bloodworms are not mosquito larvae. Mosquitos (all mosquitos) are of the Genus Anopheles. Bloodworms are the larvae of Chironomid (Midge) flies, a harmless gnat-type of insect. The difference in the appearance between these two larvae can be easily seen: mosquito larvae are grayish, while Chironomus larvae are bright red as a result of containing hemoglobin to absorb and store oxygen (no its not from human blood, LOL). Notice though, Amber, that Lenny said freeze dried bloodworms can cause constipation -- not live or frozen bloodworms, which are an excellent food source. Freeze-dried foods are just that -- DRIED -- and when injested and then absorb moisture they can compact in the intestines. Anabantoids (mostly carnivorous -- insect eaters) such as Bettas have a shorter digestive system than do herbiforous fish and can be affected moreso by the effects of swelling, moisture absorbing freeze-dried foods of any type. As Bettas are primarily mosquito eaters in the wild, they would have no trouble ordinarily eating frozen (thawed) bloodworms, another similar food to what they've evolved to use. Frozen bloodworms are one of the best and one of the most nutritious foods you can feed most fish. Exceptions would include some of the specialty feeders (Tropheus, etc.) of Lake Tanganyika and some Mbuna species of Lake Malawi, especially of the Genus Labeotropheus (mainly, an herbivore). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > Yes I did know that bloodworms are mosquito larvae, but I didn't know > they lead to constipation, very good to know, thanks :) Are beta's just > prone to constipation or do bloodworms have a chance to cause > constipation in most freshwater fish? > How can I coerce him into eating a shelled pea if he's not eating at > all? Any tips? lol. > > Oh and my test strips read both KH and GH, I just did a test a few > moments ago and it measured my KH somewhere near 0, and my GH is > somewhere between 50-75 ppm, I will do another test after work and see > if it reads any different. I really wonder how accurate it is since it > also reads my PH at lower than 6.2 (it doesn't show results lower than > 6.2, so it's hard to tell exactly how well it's reading). > I was under the assumption that KH can be adjusted with aquarium salts, > is this correct? The rest of the readings look right though, no > nitrites, no chlorine and the nitrates barely read on the test strip, > which is what my regular tests say with the drops and vials. > > Amber > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 2:22:23 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 5:39:09 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32460	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater

OK. Do you have other tanks with gravel, like for a Betta with no filtration but the gravel should have some good nitrifying bacteria growing on it. There wouldn't be much but taking even a small portion of the gravel and putting it in a media bag or even in a piece of hosiery, and then put that in the reservoir of your new filter when you start up the fishless cycling process (using the plain ammonia to 4-5ppm), you would at least be seeding the new tank with some nitrifying bacteria instead of waiting for it to occur naturally. This will speed up the process and you could end up with a fully cycled tank in the 7-14 day range instead of the 6 week range. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater This will be my first tank with a filter --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > A "Fishless Cycle" using the plain ammonia can take anywhere from 7- 10 days > to 4-6 weeks. Do you have any other active tanks going that are already > cycled? I didn't look over your plan yet so I'm not sure if you were > planning to fully stock it from the start or not. If you are, then you > could use some of your existing filter media from one of your cycled tanks > and put that in with the filter media of the newly set up tank and then > start feeding the tank with plain ammonia up to 4-5ppm and keep feeding the > tank daily, as needed until the tank is fully cycling 4-5ppm of ammonia in > 12 hours. See my blog page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and right near the > top.. in one of the first couple of paragraphs, I have links to a couple of > different detailed articles on Fishless Cycling that you can use as a > detailed guide. > > Of course, if you can buy Dr. Tim's One And Only or Bio-Spira, you could > instantly cycle the tank so you can add fish the next day. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater > > Also, how long do i cycle it before i add the fish? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Hi everyone. In light of all my previous posts about setting up a > > 20gal freshwater, I have managed to come up with this as the plan. > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 5:45:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32461	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: When to treat Ich?

According to Kordon's site http://www.novalek.com/kordon/ridich/index.htm [scroll down near the bottom and then section (f)] you should have treated for 6 to 35 days until all evidence of the Ich if gone. Here is a copy/paste of section (f): (f) Treatments may be repeated as often as every 6-12 hours (depending upon the severity of the particular disease and the tolerance of the diseased fishes). Treatment should be repeated no less than every 24 hours (see step c) and continued for at least 3 days beyond the disappearance of all signs of disease. ******The main problem is in knowing when all white spots are gone from inside the mouth, gills, and nostrils of the fish.******(emphasis added by Lenny) Typical treatments for Ich will depend upon the species of Ich involved, and may require six to 35 days or more in daily treatments. This means that daily partial water changes will need to be made followed by daily re-dosing of Rid-Ich+ until the infection is entirely gone. There are a number of "Ich" white spot species that can be involved, each with a different length of time of its life cycle in the white spot stage. In general these different species have different white spot stages varying from about 3 days as dormant white spots, to one week, to two weeks, to three weeks, and to 32-35 days or more. It takes an expert with microscopic examination to determine which species is involved. They all look alike. During the white spot stage the Ich are not treatable by any known treatment. Only when the Ich are hatched from the white spots and free swimming are they able to be killed by a treatment. The actual time necessary will depend upon the particular infection, the degree to which the fish are affected, how early the disease is detected, and when appropriate treatment is started. Note: Failure to properly diagnose a given disease and failure to start appropriate treatment early enough will often result in the death of some or all of the diseased fishes. (END SNIP) Considering the above and that you've seen recurring "white spots", you might want to re-do your treatment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of giuseppesalvato Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] When to treat Ich? About 2 months ago I treated my 46 gallon tank with Rid Ich + for 8 days due to a minor ich issue on 2 of my neon tetras. After about 3 weeks that I finished the Rid Ich treatment one of the neons had 1 white spot and started hitting the plants. I didn't do anything and all the fish looked to be fine. Even that neon looked fine after few days. This week I noticed 1 small white spot on one of the rosy tetras. This fish also started getting rid of the spot by hitting the plants and again I didn't do any treatment. This fish is now spotless. None of the fish shows signs of ich now. I understand that ich is a parasite living in pretty much all the aquariums and changes in temperature may cause it to attack the fish. My question is, do I need to treat my tank again for Ich or I should wait until I see more signs, such as more white spots on 2 or more fishes? I have a great pair of Kribensins in a quarantine tank that I'd like to move to the main tank, but I don't want them to get Ich. I also want to avoid that the other fish in the main tank get a ich infestation. Thanks for your help, Giuseppe _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 6:09:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32462	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail...

In a message dated 11/4/2008 10:18:48 A.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: From all I've read in many forum posts over the years, the freeze dried bloodworms seem to be a leading cause of constipation. Some folks would soak the dried bloodworms in a spoonful of removed tank water for a few minutes to give them a chance to rehydrate before feeding. When I had my Katrina-rescued Betta, I fed him little bitty pellets that came with him but he also came with some freeze dried bloodworms. He wouldn't eat the bloodworms even after they were in the water for a while but he liked the little pellets. I'm not sure if you know it but bloodworms are actually mosquito larvae... which would be one of their natural foods since in the wild, Bettas are very common in the rice patties of SE Asia and I'm guessing mosquitoes are also common in those areas and they also love to lay their eggs in still waters. Lenny Vasbinder ok Lenny, I disagree. Bloodworms are NOT mosquito larvae! Here's a link, check it out, it's the larvae of a midge, _http://www.nature grid.org.uk/pondexplorer/gallery/bloodwrm.html_ (http://www.naturegrid.org.uk/pondexplorer/gallery/bloodwrm.html) Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32463	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Best Temp for Tetras

Hi guys My convict cichlid and the tank he came in have found a great home - someone who loves cichlids and has been doing this for a while came and picked him up for $20. The tank and fish was free, so I saved his life and made some extra money! Now, I have a new 10 gal that fits so much better into the room and was very well taken care of and had a few fish in it. They took the fish out when I picked it up, and I added tetras to it, and moved one of my bettas. What water temp is best?? I dont have the heater on now, should I use it? All my other fish do well at room temp and are cold water so I dont use heaters, but I did get one with this tank. Should I use it? Dr.Katie CRaft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Best Temp for Tetras

What kind of tetras? Some do fine in cooler room temp water, most do not. Betta's are tropical's and should have a heater unless the room temp is in the 78-80F range all of the time. If the room temp changes more than a few degrees throughout the course of the day, then a heater is advised to keep the temp from dropping too much, too fast. A 10G tank will drop it's temperature by 1-2F per hour without a heater so if the room gets down into the low 70's at night, that would not be a good thing for the Betta... or possibly the tetras, depending on the species. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Best Temp for Tetras Hi guys My convict cichlid and the tank he came in have found a great home - someone who loves cichlids and has been doing this for a while came and picked him up for $20. The tank and fish was free, so I saved his life and made some extra money! Now, I have a new 10 gal that fits so much better into the room and was very well taken care of and had a few fish in it. They took the fish out when I picked it up, and I added tetras to it, and moved one of my bettas. What water temp is best?? I dont have the heater on now, should I use it? All my other fish do well at room temp and are cold water so I dont use heaters, but I did get one with this tank. Should I use it? Dr.Katie CRaft _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 7:56:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32465	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail...

Yes, I did acknowledge my mistake earlier in the thread but after trying to find where I learned this bad information, I've found I'm not the only person making this mistake. There are thousands of legitimate sites calling bloodworms Red Mosquito Larvae. Here is Florida's Osceola County "Official" Mosquito Control website which also refers to them "Blind Mosquitos". http://www.osceola.org/index.cfm?lsFuses=department/MosquitoControl/MS_Midge s They do discern between the common mosquito and the Midge Fly in the article but this type of information is all over the net so I'm guessing that's where I learned the wrong info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the group :) and a question about my male crown-tail... ok Lenny, I disagree. Bloodworms are NOT mosquito larvae! Here's a link, check it out, it's the larvae of a midge, _http://www.nature grid.org.uk/pondexplorer/gallery/bloodwrm.html_ (http://www.naturegrid.org.uk/pondexplorer/gallery/bloodwrm.html <http://www.naturegrid.org.uk/pondexplorer/gallery/bloodwrm.html> ) Enid "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" In a message dated 11/4/2008 10:18:48 A.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: From all I've read in many forum posts over the years, the freeze dried bloodworms seem to be a leading cause of constipation. Some folks would soak the dried bloodworms in a spoonful of removed tank water for a few minutes to give them a chance to rehydrate before feeding. When I had my Katrina-rescued Betta, I fed him little bitty pellets that came with him but he also came with some freeze dried bloodworms. He wouldn't eat the bloodworms even after they were in the water for a while but he liked the little pellets. I'm not sure if you know it but bloodworms are actually mosquito larvae... which would be one of their natural foods since in the wild, Bettas are very common in the rice patties of SE Asia and I'm guessing mosquitoes are also common in those areas and they also love to lay their eggs in still waters. Lenny Vasbinder _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 9:14:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32466	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Tank cleaning

I have a newbie question for you guys. Do you ever want to completely drain the tank, clean it, clean the gravel and refill the tank? The last couple times I've done my PWC, there's been a lot (an I mean A LOT) of floating junk floating in the water. I've been using the gravel filter (now that I've figured out how to get good suction) and going deep into the gravel. I am taking suggestions. Thanks! Rob -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32467	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Best Temp for Tetras

I have found that I keep my house temps so high (usually 75-80 degrees) that my tanks are normally around the same temps without a heater. My 55 gallon has a heater in it, but I think the only time it even kicks on to work is at night when the temp in my house drops a little bit. I don't have a heater in my 10 gallon tank though. I do know that tetra's are pretty good at adapting to temps, but if the temp in your tank (and house) is lower than 70 I would definately use that heater just to be safe, it can't hurt after all. I have a hard time actually keeping my tank lower than 80 sometimes. I have to drop the temp in my house first, LOL. Amber Dr. Katie Craft wrote: > > Hi guys > My convict cichlid and the tank he came in have found a great home - > someone who loves cichlids and has been doing this for a while came and > picked him up for $20. The tank and fish was free, so I saved his life > and made some extra money! Now, I have a new 10 gal that fits so much > better into the room and was very well taken care of and had a few fish > in it. They took the fish out when I picked it up, and I added tetras > to it, and moved one of my bettas. What water temp is best?? I dont > have the heater on now, should I use it? All my other fish do well at > room temp and are cold water so I dont use heaters, but I did get one > with this tank. Should I use it? > Dr.Katie CRaft > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32468	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning

No, it's not good to completely drain a tank for normal maintenance, especially if you have fish in the tank. 25% weekly PWC's (partial water changes) are a good rule of thumb but a little more or less (or a lot) might be called for depending on the bioload of the tank and the water parameters of the tank compared to the source water. What size tank do you have and what kind and how many fish? When you say the "gravel filter", are you referring to a gravel siphon tube? There is also a filter system called a UGF - under gravel filter - so I want to make sure we are on the same page. If you haven't been vacuuming your gravel, then you should do a series of daily 25% PWC's vacuuming sections of your gravel each time until you are getting mostly clear water up through the siphon tube. Then when refilling the tank, do not pour or spray the water down into the gravel too quickly so it does not disturb the detritus you missed. What kind of filter system do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank cleaning I have a newbie question for you guys. Do you ever want to completely drain the tank, clean it, clean the gravel and refill the tank? The last couple times I've done my PWC, there's been a lot (an I mean A LOT) of floating junk floating in the water. I've been using the gravel filter (now that I've figured out how to get good suction) and going deep into the gravel. I am taking suggestions. Thanks! Rob -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ <http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/> http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ <http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/> http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ <http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/> There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 10:18:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 10:26:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32469	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: FW: [AquaticLife] Bruce /Send him home

Ok I forwarded all the info to Marissa, who has Bruce. I will go by there today or tomorrow, to see if any of the leads are good ones....well and to get crawdads, cause I am out. Modesto is only like an hour / hour and a half from here. We can't get him into Reno, because of the mountain. Right now its snowing over the summit. Reno, even though and hour away is like a whole different world trying to get to it. T will let you know what teh Modesto place said. I also think Capital Aquarium was interested. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > DevilLooksLikeAnAngel (I didn't see your real name on a recent post.. lol), > > I just got this email from my latest re-post on the Sacramento Craigslist. > > Are you near Modesto? This could be a good lead!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Perez > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:28 PM > To: comm-902505489@... > Subject: Bruce > > You need to call my buddy Ted at Tropical Haven in Modesto. They should have > the room for him and their tanks are well kept. It's an old school pet store > that has a bunch of huge trade in fish... > > 209-522-4706 > > Just tell him that Dan, they guy that owned the cookie shop told you to > call... > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081102-0, 11/02/2008 > Tested on: 11/2/2008 5:34:33 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32470	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning

Lenny: Yes, I meant to say gravel siphon. Sorry for the confusion. I have a 1.5 gallon tank with one Betta in it. As for the filter system, I have the standard one that came with the tank. The tank I got was the 1.5 gallon tank by Tetra. As for refilling the tank, I have a 2nd siphon tube that I use and I ususally try to angle the tube a little so that the water isn't going straight down into the tank, though I am not always successful, like today and I stirred up some more gunk, hence the e-mail. Thanks again. Rob On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > No, it's not good to completely drain a tank for normal maintenance, > especially if you have fish in the tank. 25% weekly PWC's (partial water > changes) are a good rule of thumb but a little more or less (or a lot) > might > be called for depending on the bioload of the tank and the water parameters > of the tank compared to the source water. > > What size tank do you have and what kind and how many fish? > > When you say the "gravel filter", are you referring to a gravel siphon > tube? > There is also a filter system called a UGF - under gravel filter - so I > want > to make sure we are on the same page. > > If you haven't been vacuuming your gravel, then you should do a series of > daily 25% PWC's vacuuming sections of your gravel each time until you are > getting mostly clear water up through the siphon tube. > > Then when refilling the tank, do not pour or spray the water down into the > gravel too quickly so it does not disturb the detritus you missed. > > What kind of filter system do you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Robert Mazur > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; > Betta_Crazy@yahoogroups.com <Betta_Crazy%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank cleaning > > I have a newbie question for you guys. Do you ever want to completely drain > the tank, clean it, clean the gravel and refill the tank? > > The last couple times I've done my PWC, there's been a lot (an I mean A > LOT) > of floating junk floating in the water. I've been using the gravel filter > (now that I've figured out how to get good suction) and going deep into the > gravel. > > I am taking suggestions. > > Thanks! > > Rob > > -- > http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ <http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/> > http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ > <http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/> > http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ <http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/> > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things > happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, > you > need to be a person who makes things happen.. > James A. Lovell > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 > Tested on: 11/5/2008 10:18:21 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 > Tested on: 11/5/2008 10:26:36 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32471	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Stocking my soon-to-be 22 gal tropical freshwater

I was going to use the gravel from my existing betta and minnow tank anyway. So the bacteria should be there anyway.   Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32472	From: Noura Taweel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fry-update

Hi Ray, All the remaining fry died yesterday, actually I didn't expect them to live this far in such cruel conditions! Anyway, it's always good to review what happened to point out where I went wrong. When I posted the previous message, they were 8 days old since hatching. I started preparing the infusoria since day 2 of hatching, and put it in their tank since day 5. The book says it needs 3 days in daylight to grow a reasonable culture of infusoria. The method: I rubbed one letuce leaf (the regular letuce as we don't have romane letuce here), and put it in a smal mayonaise jar filled with tank water, and 5 snails (MTS), I left it on the window frame in the sunlight (it's autumn here so the it wasn't too hot for the snails), after 3 days the water looked green to yellow, and turbid. The smell was not bad but not good either, I don't know how's the good infusoria supposed to look or smell. The fry were removed from the 20 g community tank to a small 2 g tank, filled with water from the 20g, I was cleaning the buttom with a syringe several times aday, and made 30 - 60% PWC's once aday using water from the 20g. No airstone. The temperature was 24-25 C. I know the breeding tank was so small, but I didn't have the 15 g tank ready (I didn't expect the eggs to hatch this time after 5 or 6 failures!). What was really weird, and not mentioned in the websites I surfed, was the tiny mucous thread that comes out of the fry's head, it was supposed to drop after 3-5 days of hatching, in my fry it was there until day 8 of hatching, causing the fry to be attached togeather in groups of 3 - 9! The fry never became free swimmers, and I started putting the infusoria in day 5 I think, after seeing that the fry's bellies didn't contain yolk anymore. Please explain in more details how to make a good infusoria (with or without sunlight, how many days, how do you know it's not full of harmful bacteria, how much to feed each time and how many times aday.. etc..) Thanks Ray, Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32473	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' h

What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they produce eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should survive, wouldn't the fry get eaten? Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake tree trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller shelter using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken that over. Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? Thanks, Shirley

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32474	From: bill1433	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: New Fish----New Food

I started my small aquarium with 3 black tetra�s and, as sometimes does in the fish world, one bullied the other two, who then became small, stopped eating and died.� I purchased 3 red eye tetra and 4 neon�s.� They went into my small 5-gallon hex with 4 very small cory albino cats and the black tetra. � But because of their very small size, under an inch, and even smaller mouths, I�m wondering if they will be getting the right kind of food.� I am currently feeding them Tetra Color Tropical flakes and Tetra�s Freeze Dried Bloodworms (they have a picture of a neon and betta on the package).� Would anyone like to expand this diet?� Now Wal-Mart does not carry frozen brine shrimp but they do offer other types of dried food.� Suggestions? � Len, the test kit is here.� Start tomorrow with recording well water parameters.� Why not today?� Directions say to take water testing at room temperature.� Well water here is 56 degree�s, not room temperature.� Sample is already taken as we are waiting to warm-up to get started.� Please check your medicine cabinet and insure you have plenty of aspirin or bufferin on hand!� The hardness test from the directions already looks like it will give me �fits� � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32475	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Best Temp for Tetras

I have bettas and tetras mixed too, and have found that bettas do like water that is sort of on the warm side close to 80 degrees my temps fluctuate between 77 and 80 degrees Farenheit. I've had them for almost a year now with no problems. If you are a tropical person who likes to keep a warm house then room temps should be no problem for fish. However if you are an eskimo then you may want to have the heater on in your tank. Most fish, not all, can withstand coldwater for a brief period of time but, it is not recommended. I once had a heater to short out during the middle of winter while living with my parents and my fish survived the winter (well, most of them did.) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...> wrote: > > Hi guys > My convict cichlid and the tank he came in have found a great home - > someone who loves cichlids and has been doing this for a while came and > picked him up for $20. The tank and fish was free, so I saved his life > and made some extra money! Now, I have a new 10 gal that fits so much > better into the room and was very well taken care of and had a few fish > in it. They took the fish out when I picked it up, and I added tetras > to it, and moved one of my bettas. What water temp is best?? I dont > have the heater on now, should I use it? All my other fish do well at > room temp and are cold water so I dont use heaters, but I did get one > with this tank. Should I use it? > Dr.Katie CRaft >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32476	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: New Fish----New Food

You got the Tetratest-Laborette kit.. right? I'll bone up on the instructions and be ready for your questions. At least I have one of those kits so it won't be hard for me to walk you through it.. if needed. I would get away from Tetra brand foods. They are one of the worst out there as far as ingredients. I've been using Hagen Nutrafin brand for a few years but have been phasing them out since they aren't as good as I thought either... not compared to some of the much better fish foods that are hitting the store shelves and online sites. For example, I'm looking at the ingredients on my Nutrafin Max Goldfish food compared to Omega One (a much better brand) and here are the first few ingredients on... Nutrafin Max: Fish Meal, Corn Meal, Wheat Flour, P.D.P. (Pre-Digested Plankton), Soy Flour, Oat Meal.... Omega One: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Glutin, Fresh Kelp... Yes, the Omega One has Wheat Flour and Wheat Glutin but they are listed as the 4th and 5th ingredients after very good 1st, 2nd and 3rd ingredients... where the Nutrafin Max has these types of fillers listed as the 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th ingredients and only Fish Meal as the 1st ingredient and the P.D.P. as the 4th ingredient, which I'll presume is an OK ingredient. Yes, the Omega One costs more but check the ingredients on your fish foods and start weaning your fish onto better foods. I've never seen fish eating corn meal, wheat, soy, oat meal, etc... in the wild. I also have a high veggie content food for my fish. There are other quality brands as well but I can only speak about Omega One personally but I've heard that the San Francisco brand is good and a couple of others have more natural ingredients. I also feed them real veggies too. A $2.00, 1 lb. bag of frozen mixed vegetables will last a LONG time. I take a small amount out, put it in a little plastic container, nuke it for 15-30 seconds to blanch them and then feed the already small pieces to my goldfish. For the smaller fish, I mash the blanched veggies first so they can eat the smaller pieces. I also feed my fish a slice of zucchini at least once a week. I buy the 1 lb. bag of frozen zucchini slices and take out a slice, blanch it in the microwave, put a lead-like strip (found on live aquarium plants) through the rind and let it sink. The fish nibble on the pulp for a while until it's almost gone and the clown pleco finishes it off at night.. including the rind. I drop this in as the last meal sometimes so the pleco gets his share. If you've been reading our other thread all about bloodworms, you'll see where it's best to rehydrate them (in a spoon of tank water for a few minutes) before feeding them to the fish as they have been known to cause digestive issues for the fish when they rehydrate inside the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] New Fish----New Food I started my small aquarium with 3 black tetra's and, as sometimes does in the fish world, one bullied the other two, who then became small, stopped eating and died. I purchased 3 red eye tetra and 4 neon's. They went into my small 5-gallon hex with 4 very small cory albino cats and the black tetra. But because of their very small size, under an inch, and even smaller mouths, I'm wondering if they will be getting the right kind of food. I am currently feeding them Tetra Color Tropical flakes and Tetra's Freeze Dried Bloodworms (they have a picture of a neon and betta on the package). Would anyone like to expand this diet? Now Wal-Mart does not carry frozen brine shrimp but they do offer other types of dried food. Suggestions? Len, the test kit is here. Start tomorrow with recording well water parameters. Why not today? Directions say to take water testing at room temperature. Well water here is 56 degree's, not room temperature. Sample is already taken as we are waiting to warm-up to get started. Please check your medicine cabinet and insure you have plenty of aspirin or bufferin on hand! The hardness test from the directions already looks like it will give me "fits" Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 6:05:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32477	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town

So I went out to my LFS to see if they carried frozen fish foods and not just the freeze dried, thankfully they do carry it and I picked up some bloodworms and brine shrimp for now. Should I get any others or is this good for my community tank for now? I also got 2 more plants for my tank (live ones), I have mostly fake plants in my tank (the silk ones) and will now have 3 real plants. I like the looks of the real ones better, I just hope the snails don't take over my tank ;) I have decided that since I have bad luck keeping the otocinclus catfish that I'm replacing them with a couple of yoyo loaches to keep any snail issues to a minimum. I know that the yoyo loaches stay small so that'll be good. I'm just going to get 2 of the loaches though, not a school of them as I haven't read anywhere that they are schooling fish. If I am wrong please let me know :) Out of my 5 oto's I only have 2 left, and nothing should have been causing them to die in my tank, and since they died the last time I got them I have decided to just give up on having them, lol. I'd rather not waste money on a fish that for some reason doesn't go well in my tank. Oh and my LFS also told me that there is a lady in town selling her 125 gallon tank and will probably give me a good deal on it. It comes with the hood, light, and a canopy to match the stand. I'm not sure if it comes with a filter or not, but I'm sure I can get one online if I have to. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32478	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how it'll effect yours specifically though. Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide or is it a decoration you want to replace with something else? Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce eggs or fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good snack ;) Amber Shirley Reichard wrote: > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they produce > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should survive, > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake tree > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller shelter > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken that over. > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > Thanks, > Shirley > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32479	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Better Late than Never

Hey everyone my name is Sam and though I have been a member for a while now I have never introduced myself to the group. Currently I have 2 29 gallon tanks and am looking into purchasing a 150 gallon tank. I know what you're thinking, that's on hell of an upgrade, right? Well anyway, my first 29 gallon has chocolate gouramis, a betta, some harlequins rasboras, some otocinclus and some algae shrimp. The second has two cuviceps cichlids, black tetras, and pencilfish, oh yeah and three guppies. The guppies were put in there to do what guppies do and that is, breed a lot to supply my fish with a regular supply of live food. I've been keeping tropical fish for almost 20 years and still love it. But, after keeping all of the standard fish that all LFS have to offer I want to step up to something a little more challenging. Hence why I have the chocolate gouramis, but I want to try altum angelfish and discus. Due to the lack of info on altum angelfish breeding I assume that most of the ones that I've seen have been wild. Now here is where the questions come in; first, which fish that I currently have will be able to survive the high temps that discus require? second, angels and discus together? I've gotten two different feedbacks one was no because the angels were too aggressive, and the second was as long as the discus were introduced first. Any advice would be appreciated. Especially Lenny he gives great advice.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32480	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

This post is in reference to another thread of mine re how to get my convict cichlids to come out of hiding. The two of them remain in the large fake tree trunk and I rarely see them. This brought responses re dither fish, and this thread is simply me trying to figure out what to do about it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how it'll > effect yours specifically though. > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide or is > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce eggs or > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good snack ;) > > Amber > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they produce > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should survive, > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake tree > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller shelter > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken that over. > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > Thanks, > > Shirley > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32481	From: bill1433	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: New Fish----New Food

Yes, Len that's the kit and you were right about the Nitrate, NOT, will need to get that one later.   Bill --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Fish----New Food To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 7:05 PM You got the Tetratest-Laborette kit.. right? I'll bone up on the instructions and be ready for your questions. At least I have one of those kits so it won't be hard for me to walk you through it.. if needed. I would get away from Tetra brand foods. They are one of the worst out there as far as ingredients. I've been using Hagen Nutrafin brand for a few years but have been phasing them out since they aren't as good as I thought either... not compared to some of the much better fish foods that are hitting the store shelves and online sites. For example, I'm looking at the ingredients on my Nutrafin Max Goldfish food compared to Omega One (a much better brand) and here are the first few ingredients on... Nutrafin Max: Fish Meal, Corn Meal, Wheat Flour, P.D.P. (Pre-Digested Plankton), Soy Flour, Oat Meal.... Omega One: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Glutin, Fresh Kelp... Yes, the Omega One has Wheat Flour and Wheat Glutin but they are listed as the 4th and 5th ingredients after very good 1st, 2nd and 3rd ingredients. ... where the Nutrafin Max has these types of fillers listed as the 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th ingredients and only Fish Meal as the 1st ingredient and the P.D.P. as the 4th ingredient, which I'll presume is an OK ingredient. Yes, the Omega One costs more but check the ingredients on your fish foods and start weaning your fish onto better foods. I've never seen fish eating corn meal, wheat, soy, oat meal, etc... in the wild. I also have a high veggie content food for my fish. There are other quality brands as well but I can only speak about Omega One personally but I've heard that the San Francisco brand is good and a couple of others have more natural ingredients. I also feed them real veggies too. A $2.00, 1 lb. bag of frozen mixed vegetables will last a LONG time. I take a small amount out, put it in a little plastic container, nuke it for 15-30 seconds to blanch them and then feed the already small pieces to my goldfish. For the smaller fish, I mash the blanched veggies first so they can eat the smaller pieces. I also feed my fish a slice of zucchini at least once a week. I buy the 1 lb. bag of frozen zucchini slices and take out a slice, blanch it in the microwave, put a lead-like strip (found on live aquarium plants) through the rind and let it sink. The fish nibble on the pulp for a while until it's almost gone and the clown pleco finishes it off at night.. including the rind. I drop this in as the last meal sometimes so the pleco gets his share. If you've been reading our other thread all about bloodworms, you'll see where it's best to rehydrate them (in a spoon of tank water for a few minutes) before feeding them to the fish as they have been known to cause digestive issues for the fish when they rehydrate inside the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] New Fish----New Food I started my small aquarium with 3 black tetra's and, as sometimes does in the fish world, one bullied the other two, who then became small, stopped eating and died. I purchased 3 red eye tetra and 4 neon's. They went into my small 5-gallon hex with 4 very small cory albino cats and the black tetra. But because of their very small size, under an inch, and even smaller mouths, I'm wondering if they will be getting the right kind of food. I am currently feeding them Tetra Color Tropical flakes and Tetra's Freeze Dried Bloodworms (they have a picture of a neon and betta on the package). Would anyone like to expand this diet? Now Wal-Mart does not carry frozen brine shrimp but they do offer other types of dried food. Suggestions? Len, the test kit is here. Start tomorrow with recording well water parameters. Why not today? Directions say to take water testing at room temperature. Well water here is 56 degree's, not room temperature. Sample is already taken as we are waiting to warm-up to get started. Please check your medicine cabinet and insure you have plenty of aspirin or bufferin on hand! The hardness test from the directions already looks like it will give me "fits" Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 6:05:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32482	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(

I have tried giving him shelled/squished peas (which sink, they don't float in case anyone doesn't know this), but he just ignores the food. I'm guessing he's just past the point of no return now. He's swimming even less now and isn't floating, he's on the bottom of his tank. He has also gotten more bloated looking, which I'm assuming is from the constipation. Does anyone have any advice? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32483	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(

On one of my earlier posts, I talked about and provided you a webpage that gave more details on giving your Betta an Epsom salt bath. If it's constipation, the Epsom salts will act as a laxative and help loosen things up and hopefully help him to pass some feces. Have you seen him pooping at all? Fish poop is another good way of helping to diagnose a problem. Here is the page with the Epsom salt bath directions. http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :( I have tried giving him shelled/squished peas (which sink, they don't float in case anyone doesn't know this), but he just ignores the food. I'm guessing he's just past the point of no return now. He's swimming even less now and isn't floating, he's on the bottom of his tank. He has also gotten more bloated looking, which I'm assuming is from the constipation. Does anyone have any advice? Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 7:21:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32484	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(

I once had a betta do the same thing and after about a week of exhausting my funds trying to revive the little guy, I was about to give up and I decided to try one more thing. I introduced a female betta to sort of activate his natural male behavior. I put her in and he started to give chase like most male bettas, so I figured he was just giving one last go before he passed. So as a measure to prevent further disease in other fish I introduced Maracyn to the water. After about the 3rd dose he was swimming and eating like nothing had happened. Eventually I had to remove the female because he was so ruthless. I am not a vet so I can't give you all of the advice but anything is better than death, I wish you and your betta the best of luck!!!!!!!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I have tried giving him shelled/squished peas (which sink, they don't > float in case anyone doesn't know this), but he just ignores the food. > I'm guessing he's just past the point of no return now. > He's swimming even less now and isn't floating, he's on the bottom of > his tank. He has also gotten more bloated looking, which I'm assuming is > from the constipation. > Does anyone have any advice? > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32485	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Photos and description of ballast I need to replace

I uploaded two photos of the ballast from my aquarium light taht I need to replace, to a photo album called Dora's ballast in the list photos. They are awaiting moderator approval. Ballast is 120 V, 50/60 HZ, apparently 0.2 amps. It says it's cat no. IG13-20EL. I have changed teh ballast in a flourescent light before, but it was an overhead room light, not an aquarium light. The trickiest part of this is that wires go to the actual parts that the tube ends insert into, and I can't figure out how to disconnect those wires. I do know how to change the twisty caps. Fixture came with Petsmart's 20 gallon cage - describes itself as 24 inch fluorescent aquarium reflector, 120 v, 19 watt, 60 hz. Now, it takes an 18 inch tube, and I've been usnig the 14 or 15 watt tube. Anyone know how to change it and where to get teh part? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... > Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32486	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Photos and description of ballast I need to replace

Dora, Someone approved them. Got a hit here http://www.interglobal-inc.com/pdf/BallastsCat.pdf This is not an answer to your question. If you want to upgrade your lighting system try http://www.ahsupply.com/%c2%a0. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 5:33 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Photos and description of ballast I need to replace I uploaded two photos of the ballast from my aquarium light taht I need to replace, to a photo album called Dora's ballast in the list photos. They are awaiting moderator approval. Ballast is 120 V, 50/60 HZ, apparently 0.2 amps. It says it's cat no. IG13-20EL. I have changed teh ballast in a flourescent light before, but it was an overhead room light, not an aquarium light. The trickiest part of this is that wires go to the actual parts that the tube ends insert into, and I can't figure out how to disconnect those wires. I do know how to change the twisty caps. Fixture came with Petsmart's 20 gallon cage - describes itself as 24 inch fluorescent aquarium reflector, 120 v, 19 watt, 60 hz. Now, it takes an 18 inch tube, and I've been usnig the 14 or 15 watt tube. Anyone know how to change it and where to get teh part? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... > Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32487	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(

I'm sorry Lenny, I completely forgot about that suggestion, I just remembered you suggesting the squished/shelled pea... I will have to go to the store and get some epsom salts and see if I can get him back to normal. He's a really pretty violet crowntail betta and I got him for a good deal at the fish store since they got them sent to them on accident. They have more crown tail betta's out there but no more with the same coloring as mine. Thanks, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > On one of my earlier posts, I talked about and provided you a webpage that > gave more details on giving your Betta an Epsom salt bath. If it's > constipation, the Epsom salts will act as a laxative and help loosen > things > up and hopefully help him to pass some feces. Have you seen him pooping at > all? Fish poop is another good way of helping to diagnose a problem. Here > is the page with the Epsom salt bath directions. > http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :( > > I have tried giving him shelled/squished peas (which sink, they don't > float > in case anyone doesn't know this), but he just ignores the food. > I'm guessing he's just past the point of no return now. > He's swimming even less now and isn't floating, he's on the bottom of his > tank. He has also gotten more bloated looking, which I'm assuming is from > the constipation. > Does anyone have any advice? > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 > Tested on: 11/5/2008 7:21:35 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32488	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never

Pics of my tanks have been posted in the group photos titled 29 in process. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > Hey everyone my name is Sam and though I have been a member for a > while now I have never introduced myself to the group. Currently I > have 2 29 gallon tanks and am looking into purchasing a 150 gallon > tank. I know what you're thinking, that's on hell of an upgrade, > right? Well anyway, my first 29 gallon has chocolate gouramis, a > betta, some harlequins rasboras, some otocinclus and some algae > shrimp. The second has two cuviceps cichlids, black tetras, and > pencilfish, oh yeah and three guppies. The guppies were put in there > to do what guppies do and that is, breed a lot to supply my fish with > a regular supply of live food. I've been keeping tropical fish for > almost 20 years and still love it. But, after keeping all of the > standard fish that all LFS have to offer I want to step up to > something a little more challenging. Hence why I have the chocolate > gouramis, but I want to try altum angelfish and discus. Due to the > lack of info on altum angelfish breeding I assume that most of the > ones that I've seen have been wild. Now here is where the questions > come in; first, which fish that I currently have will be able to > survive the high temps that discus require? second, angels and discus > together? I've gotten two different feedbacks one was no because the > angels were too aggressive, and the second was as long as the discus > were introduced first. Any advice would be appreciated. Especially > Lenny he gives great advice. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32489	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(

And no, I haven't seen my betta pooping at all. So I'm pretty sure it's constipation. I just sent my husband to the store for epsom salts, and go figure they are out of stock. I don't think he's feeling nice enough to drive all the way to walmart for me. I may have to get it tomorrow after work I guess... Or see if I have a friend who has some that they can spare for me. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > On one of my earlier posts, I talked about and provided you a webpage that > gave more details on giving your Betta an Epsom salt bath. If it's > constipation, the Epsom salts will act as a laxative and help loosen > things > up and hopefully help him to pass some feces. Have you seen him pooping at > all? Fish poop is another good way of helping to diagnose a problem. Here > is the page with the Epsom salt bath directions. > http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :( > > I have tried giving him shelled/squished peas (which sink, they don't > float > in case anyone doesn't know this), but he just ignores the food. > I'm guessing he's just past the point of no return now. > He's swimming even less now and isn't floating, he's on the bottom of his > tank. He has also gotten more bloated looking, which I'm assuming is from > the constipation. > Does anyone have any advice? > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 > Tested on: 11/5/2008 7:21:35 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32490	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fry-update

Try having the 15 gallon tank ready to receive the eggs (or fry), as they'll do best in this larger volume. Often, questionable infusoria cultures will foul a small volume of water quite fast as you keep adding this food to the tank. Next time, try using dried lettuce leaves or very wilted lettuce leaves that have lost most of their moisture. Small pieces of banana skin or potato skin will also work. With dried lettuce leaves, crush and sprinkle a small amount of it on the surface of your container of aquarium water, or use a small portion of wilted (and crushed) lettuce leaf -- with the snails. The idea is to have the snails break this food down first instead of allowing the lettuce, banana or potato to rot via bacteria. Light aeration will help as well. Try using a magnifying glass (if you have one) to look for tiny specs in the water. After the culture starts going (after at least 2 days) you can add several drops of milk or a few small crumbs of the hard boiled egg I told you about, but not too much. With the magnifying glass, you should see a cloud of these specs appear towards the light after a few hours (when the airstone is tremoved), but not cloudy water -- the water should be clear (translucent), yet green. A very slight smell may be normal, but beyond that, its just decaying. Sometimes there's a fine line between getting an infusoria culture and a bacteria culture. If possible, start your culture even sooner, with the idea that you want the snails to break down as much of this vegetable matter as possible -- thats where the infusoria are going to come from; bacteria will soon take advantage of too much veggie matter and start rotting it. Always use sunlight. Its unfortunate that you can't get brine shrimp eggs, as infusoria culturing is not the easiest thing if you're not familiar with it. To protect against the possibility of your culture crashing (or "blooming" -- from bacteria), you should start a new jar every few days. Keep in mind that this size food will only serve the fry for about a week (no more than two), and you'll need to feed them something larger like the hard-boiled egg yolk strained through a men's handkerchief. That can be touchy too, as too much of that will foul the water fast. Again, snails will be your best friend here in cleaning it up. Powdered flake food can be used after 2 weeks, but you'll need to grind it real fine (like powder). A druggist's mortise & pestle, if available -- esentially a hollowed out rock with another rounded rock that fits this cavity -- would be best to grind it that fine. After 4 or 5 weeks, simply "grinding" (crushing fine) the flake food hard between your fingers will be small enough. Getting back to the fry, this mucous thread is normal and is the manner in which the fry are attached to the spawning site after they first hatch. By your description of events, I suspect one of two things. Either you are not maintaining the fry's water temperature at 78 o or more (80 o), or you are feeding them too soon. Under normal conditions, at a temperature of 78 o F -- 80 o F, the eggs will hatch after 3 days. They will remain attached by their heads to the spawning medium (usually a plant leave -- of section of slate), dropping off during the next 2 to 3 days and will start free-swimming after another 3 1/2 (minimum) to 4 days after they hatch. Only after the last of them are free-swimming, should you start feeding them. To start feeding them any sooner is to result in at least some of the fry being belly-sliders as they are never first given the opportunity to fill their swim bladders before they eat. Your 24 o C -- 25 o C temperature would account for additional time being needed in developing, which would stretch out the free-swimming period to at least 4 to 4 1/4 days after hatching; try 25 o C -- 26 o C next time. An airstone at low aeration setting will help induce the fry to start swimming after that period, which you should have in any case, in your fry tank. While not essential for this purpose, its slight current will stimulate slower developers (such as yours seemed to be) to start swimming when they should, but it can't be too strong. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > All the remaining fry died yesterday, actually I didn't expect them > to live this far in such cruel conditions! Anyway, it's always good > to review what happened to point out where I went wrong. > When I posted the previous message, they were 8 days old since > hatching. I started preparing the infusoria since day 2 of hatching, > and put it in their tank since day 5. The book says it needs 3 days > in daylight to grow a reasonable culture of infusoria. > The method: I rubbed one letuce leaf (the regular letuce as we don't > have romane letuce here), and put it in a smal mayonaise jar filled > with tank water, and 5 snails (MTS), I left it on the window frame in > the sunlight (it's autumn here so the it wasn't too hot for the > snails), after 3 days the water looked green to yellow, and turbid. > The smell was not bad but not good either, I don't know how's the > good infusoria supposed to look or smell. > > The fry were removed from the 20 g community tank to a small 2 g > tank, filled with water from the 20g, I was cleaning the buttom with > a syringe several times aday, and made 30 - 60% PWC's once aday using > water from the 20g. No airstone. The temperature was 24-25 C. I know > the breeding tank was so small, but I didn't have the 15 g tank ready > (I didn't expect the eggs to hatch this time after 5 or 6 failures!). > > What was really weird, and not mentioned in the websites I surfed, > was the tiny mucous thread that comes out of the fry's head, it was > supposed to drop after 3-5 days of hatching, in my fry it was there > until day 8 of hatching, causing the fry to be attached togeather in > groups of 3 - 9! > The fry never became free swimmers, and I started putting the > infusoria in day 5 I think, after seeing that the fry's bellies > didn't contain yolk anymore. > > Please explain in more details how to make a good infusoria (with or > without sunlight, how many days, how do you know it's not full of > harmful bacteria, how much to feed each time and how many times > aday.. etc..) > Thanks Ray, > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32491	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(

One of your friends or neighbors should have some on hand. You only need a little. I would try to do the Epsom salt bath ASAP. Imagine if you were that constipated for days? It would have to get very painful after a while.. and then not being able to eat also. Thank goodness for our good spicy food down here.. it keeps us regular. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :( And no, I haven't seen my betta pooping at all. So I'm pretty sure it's constipation. I just sent my husband to the store for epsom salts, and go figure they are out of stock. I don't think he's feeling nice enough to drive all the way to walmart for me. I may have to get it tomorrow after work I guess... Or see if I have a friend who has some that they can spare for me. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > On one of my earlier posts, I talked about and provided you a webpage > that gave more details on giving your Betta an Epsom salt bath. If > it's constipation, the Epsom salts will act as a laxative and help > loosen things up and hopefully help him to pass some feces. Have you > seen him pooping at all? Fish poop is another good way of helping to > diagnose a problem. Here is the page with the Epsom salt bath > directions. > http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php> > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php> > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :( > > I have tried giving him shelled/squished peas (which sink, they don't > float in case anyone doesn't know this), but he just ignores the food. > I'm guessing he's just past the point of no return now. > He's swimming even less now and isn't floating, he's on the bottom of > his tank. He has also gotten more bloated looking, which I'm assuming > is from the constipation. > Does anyone have any advice? > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 > 7:21:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 8:11:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 8:17:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32492	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Of course its entirely possible (and more probable) that you'd end up with male and female dither fish. While they may spawn spontaneously, it usually takes some extra efforts on the hobbyist's part to encourage breeding, such as extra feeding to better condition the fish for breeding, seeing to it that the water is most favorable to their breeding requirements and supplying them with a suitable spawning medium, where applicable. If, by chance, they were to breed, yes its probable that the Cichlids would eat the eggs, if not the fry -- if the breeders did not eat them first (your not having been particularly set up for this). With these Cichlids behaving as needing this shelter, from feeling vulnerable and insecure, yes, it would be a bad idea to remove this large fake tree trunk. They will only be seeking another similar place in which to hide until they settle down, such in the very corners of the tank. By removing this shelter, this will not induce them to start swimming in the open, nor will it help in getting them over feeling insecure. They would more than likely try to share the smaller driftwood shelter with the Pleco. Once the feel secure again, they will no longer feel the need of having a place to hide. Did I mention your lighting? I know I touched on that in my original post (which was lost in cyberspace), but I don't remember if I revisited it. Quite often, too strong of a light will cause fish, especially some Cichlids to feel insecure. This goes hand-in-hand with adding some top cover like Water Fern, but if the lighting is noticeably strong, cut down on the intensity if you can -- or try leaving it off for a while and check out the results -- you may find a difference. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they produce > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should survive, > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake tree > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller shelter > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken that over. > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > Thanks, > Shirley >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32493	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town

When buying frozen fish foods, make sure it has not been thawed and refrozen. Most foods will not show as a nice fresh color when this occurs -- bloodworms will turn a much darker red-brown (sometimes almost black) instead of being bright red. Best results are had when buying the best quality. One of the best quality live food brands (of all types) is Hikari -- if not THE best quality brand. Some others result in having foreign debris (leaf, twig matter, etc.) in with the food after being thawed, or excess water leaving much less food. Their are many types of frozen food available, but again, you should look for the best brand. Additionally offered are mosquito larva, daphnia, cyclops, glass larvae and such, but some -- like daphnia -- can be real garbage if not bought under the right label. Mysis shrimp can be a good supplement. As wth any of these, alternate them for variety. Some frozen adult brine shrimp can cloud your water when thawed and is best first rinsed through a net before feeding; bloodworms are best treated in this manner also. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > So I went out to my LFS to see if they carried frozen fish foods and not > just the freeze dried, thankfully they do carry it and I picked up some > bloodworms and brine shrimp for now. Should I get any others or is this > good for my community tank for now? > > I also got 2 more plants for my tank (live ones), I have mostly fake > plants in my tank (the silk ones) and will now have 3 real plants. I > like the looks of the real ones better, I just hope the snails don't > take over my tank ;) > > I have decided that since I have bad luck keeping the otocinclus catfish > that I'm replacing them with a couple of yoyo loaches to keep any snail > issues to a minimum. I know that the yoyo loaches stay small so that'll > be good. I'm just going to get 2 of the loaches though, not a school of > them as I haven't read anywhere that they are schooling fish. If I am > wrong please let me know :) > Out of my 5 oto's I only have 2 left, and nothing should have been > causing them to die in my tank, and since they died the last time I got > them I have decided to just give up on having them, lol. I'd rather not > waste money on a fish that for some reason doesn't go well in my tank. > > Oh and my LFS also told me that there is a lady in town selling her 125 > gallon tank and will probably give me a good deal on it. It comes with > the hood, light, and a canopy to match the stand. I'm not sure if it > comes with a filter or not, but I'm sure I can get one online if I have to. > > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32494	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring to, but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely varied as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 continents with many different habitats as their environment. There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave-like habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite at home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids are similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but because this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal situation. Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even attempt to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how it'll > effect yours specifically though. > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide or is > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce eggs or > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good snack ;) > > Amber > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they produce > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should survive, > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake tree > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller shelter > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken that over. > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > Thanks, > > Shirley > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32495	From: Chris	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Lenny, Your Blog

Don't you have a primer on gravel cleaning? I know you've typed that one should only do 50% per pwc. Could you post the link for me? I cannot find it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32496	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Excellent information Ray. There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. But you probably already knew that :) -Mike Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but because this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal situation. -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring to, but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely varied as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 continents with many different habitats as their environment. There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave-like habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite at home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids are similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but because this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal situation. Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even attempt to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how it'll > effect yours specifically though. > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide or is > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce eggs or > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good snack ;) > > Amber > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they produce > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should survive, > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake tree > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller shelter > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken that over. > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > Thanks, > > Shirley > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32497	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to feed on their surfaces. BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad Konings. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Excellent information Ray. > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > But you probably already knew that :) > > -Mike > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but because > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > situation. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring to, > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely varied > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- like > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite at > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids are > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but because > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > situation. > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even attempt > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > it'll > > effect yours specifically though. > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > or is > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > eggs or > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > snack ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they produce > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > survive, > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake tree > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > shelter > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken that > over. > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32498	From: Lisa	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: UG filters

Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the filter and heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. I worked out the heater. And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached the filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the airline to the filter tube and powerhead. My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from plugging the powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... How does an ug filter work? Pictures would also be really really helpful. Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32499	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi Ray, I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. -Mike BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad Konings. Ray -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to feed on their surfaces. BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad Konings. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Excellent information Ray. > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > But you probably already knew that :) > > -Mike > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but because > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > situation. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring to, > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely varied > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- like > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite at > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids are > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but because > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > situation. > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even attempt > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > it'll > > effect yours specifically though. > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > or is > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > eggs or > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > snack ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they produce > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > survive, > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake tree > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > shelter > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken that > over. > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32500	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and the plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by pulling air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the filter and > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > I worked out the heater. > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached the > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from plugging the > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > How does an ug filter work? > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > Thanks > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32501	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/5/2008
Subject: Re: Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :(

Okay i did his epsom salt bath (also did my female in my community tank because she was looking a bit larger than usual too, but was still quite active, but didn't take the peas I tried giving her). He's not acting any different this evening, I guess I will see how he is in the morning. I may have been too late though, but I hope not. thanks, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > One of your friends or neighbors should have some on hand. You only need a > little. I would try to do the Epsom salt bath ASAP. Imagine if you were > that constipated for days? It would have to get very painful after a > while.. and then not being able to eat also. Thank goodness for our good > spicy food down here.. it keeps us regular. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :( > > And no, I haven't seen my betta pooping at all. So I'm pretty sure it's > constipation. I just sent my husband to the store for epsom salts, and go > figure they are out of stock. I don't think he's feeling nice enough to > drive all the way to walmart for me. I may have to get it tomorrow after > work I guess... Or see if I have a friend who has some that they can spare > for me. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > On one of my earlier posts, I talked about and provided you a webpage > > that gave more details on giving your Betta an Epsom salt bath. If > > it's constipation, the Epsom salts will act as a laxative and help > > loosen things up and hopefully help him to pass some feces. Have you > > seen him pooping at all? Fish poop is another good way of helping to > > diagnose a problem. Here is the page with the Epsom salt bath > > directions. > > http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php> > > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php>> > > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php> > > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php > <http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php>> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay... Betta seems to be slowing dying :( > > > > I have tried giving him shelled/squished peas (which sink, they don't > > float in case anyone doesn't know this), but he just ignores the food. > > I'm guessing he's just past the point of no return now. > > He's swimming even less now and isn't floating, he's on the bottom of > > his tank. He has also gotten more bloated looking, which I'm assuming > > is from the constipation. > > Does anyone have any advice? > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > >> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/5/2008 > > 7:21:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 > Tested on: 11/5/2008 8:11:27 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 > Tested on: 11/5/2008 8:17:47 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32502	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog

My standard recommendation is 25% PWC's so that one is not changing the water chemistry parameters too much, too fast. If the tank is especially dirty, then a series of 25% PWC's, one every couple of hours, should be done. For properly stocked tanks, a weekly 25% PWC should be sufficient. For overstocked tanks, 2 or 3 PWC's a week might be needed... daily in some cases. As far as vacuuming the gravel, I do have a blog article on "How-To Start Your Gravel Siphon" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-to-start-your-gravel-siphon.html but as far as cleaning the gravel, it's just a matter of siphoning a small section at a time until the water being sucked up through the siphon tube is flowing clear, then move to another section. If you can't clean all of the gravel during one 25% PWC, wait an hour or so (or the next day) and do a 2nd and/or 3rd 25% PWC until the gravel is mostly coming up clean. For folks with bigger tanks or multiple tanks, I strongly suggest a Python Gravel Vacuum And Water Change System or one of the other brands who have copied the Python. I think Lee makes one now and there's another brand I've seen and those two have lower prices than the Python. Another option is a canister filter system like the Marineland HOT Magnum 350 Pro series that has an integrated gravel vacuum tube system so the canister filter provides the suction to suck up the detritus out of the gravel but then the water is returned to the tank so you would still have to do a separate 25% PWC using a regular siphon or pump... or modify that Magnum system to also have a valve that would send the water to a long drain hose instead of back into the tank... but even then, you would have to refill the tank. The Python or a copy-cat brand is the simplest overall system since it does the gravel vacuuming, water change and then refill all from the same connection. Maybe, I'll add this reply and more to my existing blog article on the gravel siphon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny, Your Blog Don't you have a primer on gravel cleaning? I know you've typed that one should only do 50% per pwc. Could you post the link for me? I cannot find it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 4:56:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32503	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog

The brand aquian or spelt something like that is the best brand of "python" type gravel vac that I have used. The suction is a lot better and is a bit less complicated than the python. I'm a proud owner of both and they are worth the investment. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 04:56:31 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny, Your Blog My standard recommendation is 25% PWC's so that one is not changing the water chemistry parameters too much, too fast. If the tank is especially dirty, then a series of 25% PWC's, one every couple of hours, should be done. For properly stocked tanks, a weekly 25% PWC should be sufficient. For overstocked tanks, 2 or 3 PWC's a week might be needed... daily in some cases. As far as vacuuming the gravel, I do have a blog article on "How-To Start Your Gravel Siphon" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-to-start-your-gravel-siphon.html but as far as cleaning the gravel, it's just a matter of siphoning a small section at a time until the water being sucked up through the siphon tube is flowing clear, then move to another section. If you can't clean all of the gravel during one 25% PWC, wait an hour or so (or the next day) and do a 2nd and/or 3rd 25% PWC until the gravel is mostly coming up clean. For folks with bigger tanks or multiple tanks, I strongly suggest a Python Gravel Vacuum And Water Change System or one of the other brands who have copied the Python. I think Lee makes one now and there's another brand I've seen and those two have lower prices than the Python. Another option is a canister filter system like the Marineland HOT Magnum 350 Pro series that has an integrated gravel vacuum tube system so the canister filter provides the suction to suck up the detritus out of the gravel but then the water is returned to the tank so you would still have to do a separate 25% PWC using a regular siphon or pump... or modify that Magnum system to also have a valve that would send the water to a long drain hose instead of back into the tank... but even then, you would have to refill the tank. The Python or a copy-cat brand is the simplest overall system since it does the gravel vacuuming, water change and then refill all from the same connection. Maybe, I'll add this reply and more to my existing blog article on the gravel siphon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny, Your Blog Don't you have a primer on gravel cleaning? I know you've typed that one should only do 50% per pwc. Could you post the link for me? I cannot find it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 4:56:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32504	From: Lisa	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

So what about the debris? The fish poo and all that? Where does that go if there is no filter medium to catch it? Do the UG's just airate the tank water? And would i still need to do a weekly vaccume of the gravel, and a 20% water change? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and > the plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by > pulling air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the filter > and > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > the > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from plugging > the > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > Thanks > > > > Lisa > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32505	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

There should be a separate larger section that holds some filter media like a sponge and filter floss, above the gravel between the UGF plates and the powerhead. Do you have a brand name or website where we could look at your UGF system? If you don't have some kind of reservoir for filter media, then you should modify it. There are also small pre-filters that fit on many powerhead brands but this would get clogged frequently if it was the only filter to catch detritus. On my blog article, "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning", there is a section on UGF's with links to a several good articles on maintaining a UGF. You should check them out and see how other UGF's are set up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters So what about the debris? The fish poo and all that? Where does that go if there is no filter medium to catch it? Do the UG's just airate the tank water? And would i still need to do a weekly vaccume of the gravel, and a 20% water change? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and the > plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by pulling > air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the filter > and > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > the > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from plugging > the > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > Thanks > > > > Lisa > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 5:46:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 5:51:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32506	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

The debris and fish poop from my understanding collect under the plates and you have to pull them out every so often to clean them. I've herd its the worst smell ever. Correct me if I'm wrong about this one please but I will never use them personally I'm a creature of habit and am perfectly content with me aquaclear filters and me pythons. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:42:32 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters So what about the debris? The fish poo and all that? Where does that go if there is no filter medium to catch it? Do the UG's just airate the tank water? And would i still need to do a weekly vaccume of the gravel, and a 20% water change? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and > the plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by > pulling air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the filter > and > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > the > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from plugging > the > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > Thanks > > > > Lisa > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32507	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

I had a UGF 40 years ago, but today I would use a power filter a.k.a. HOB (hang on back) filter like allie. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters The debris and fish poop from my understanding collect under the plates and you have to pull them out every so often to clean them. I've herd its the worst smell ever. Correct me if I'm wrong about this one please but I will never use them personally I'm a creature of habit and am perfectly content with me aquaclear filters and me pythons. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@ <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:42:32 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters So what about the debris? The fish poo and all that? Where does that go if there is no filter medium to catch it? Do the UG's just airate the tank water? And would i still need to do a weekly vaccume of the gravel, and a 20% water change? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and > the plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by > pulling air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the filter > and > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > the > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from plugging > the > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > Thanks > > > > Lisa > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32508	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

That is a downside of an underpowered UGF where there is not enough suction to draw the detritus across the bottom of the tank to get sucked up by the uplift tube. People are now modifying the old style UGF's, using HOB's with the suction tube on the HOB connected to the UGF uplift tube or using powerheads to power the suction instead of an airline tube. I find even these methods will lead to a heavy buildup of detritus and mulm under a UGF plate. One way I explain this is look at the intake to a large HOB or canister filter system. Quite often, I'll see a piece of fish poop or a leaf from anacharis go floating within an inch of the intake tube and not get sucked up. That's with 350 gallons per hour getting sucked through that 1" opening. If it can't suck a piece of fish poop from an inch away suspended in the water column, how will it suck fish poop down through the gravel, through the slots/holes in the UGF plates and then across the bottom of the fish tank? A recent survey that I saw had around 40% of people saying they still used UGF's but I'm wondering how many of these are in smaller tanks or grow-out tanks for fry or very low bio-load tanks? I can't imagine trying to utilize a UGF for goldfish. I've also seen some folks doing reverse UGF's where they use a canister filter or power head to pump water down through the UGF uplift tube which then goes back up through the gravel with the intent of suspending detritus longer so it gets sucked up by the filter intake rather than settling down in the gravel. This supposedly makes gravel cleaning easier and keeps less detritus from being in the gravel between cleanings.. but then the filter would have to be serviced more frequently. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters The debris and fish poop from my understanding collect under the plates and you have to pull them out every so often to clean them. I've herd its the worst smell ever. Correct me if I'm wrong about this one please but I will never use them personally I'm a creature of habit and am perfectly content with me aquaclear filters and me pythons. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@... <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> > Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:42:32 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters So what about the debris? The fish poo and all that? Where does that go if there is no filter medium to catch it? Do the UG's just airate the tank water? And would i still need to do a weekly vaccume of the gravel, and a 20% water change? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and the > plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by pulling > air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the filter > and > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > the > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from plugging > the > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > Thanks > > > > Lisa > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 6:00:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 6:23:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32509	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

Wow... you had an aquarium pre-conception? Or are you admitting your age.. or is that a typo and you only meant to type "4 years ago"? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters I had a UGF 40 years ago, but today I would use a power filter a.k.a. HOB (hang on back) filter like allie. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of allie1068@... <mailto:allie1068%40yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters The debris and fish poop from my understanding collect under the plates and you have to pull them out every so often to clean them. I've herd its the worst smell ever. Correct me if I'm wrong about this one please but I will never use them personally I'm a creature of habit and am perfectly content with me aquaclear filters and me pythons. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@ <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:42:32 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters So what about the debris? The fish poo and all that? Where does that go if there is no filter medium to catch it? Do the UG's just airate the tank water? And would i still need to do a weekly vaccume of the gravel, and a 20% water change? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and the > plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by pulling > air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the filter > and > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > the > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from plugging > the > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > Thanks > > > > Lisa > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 6:25:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never

Sam, thanks for the compliment. The check's in the mail! ;-) But I'll have to defer your questions about Discus, Altum Angel's, etc., to some of the more experienced folks out here like \\Steve//, Ray, Harry, Donna (you shouldn't have made that 40 years typo.. lol), etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Hey everyone my name is Sam and though I have been a member for a while now I have never introduced myself to the group. Currently I have 2 29 gallon tanks and am looking into purchasing a 150 gallon tank. I know what you're thinking, that's on hell of an upgrade, right? Well anyway, my first 29 gallon has chocolate gouramis, a betta, some harlequins rasboras, some otocinclus and some algae shrimp. The second has two cuviceps cichlids, black tetras, and pencilfish, oh yeah and three guppies. The guppies were put in there to do what guppies do and that is, breed a lot to supply my fish with a regular supply of live food. I've been keeping tropical fish for almost 20 years and still love it. But, after keeping all of the standard fish that all LFS have to offer I want to step up to something a little more challenging. Hence why I have the chocolate gouramis, but I want to try altum angelfish and discus. Due to the lack of info on altum angelfish breeding I assume that most of the ones that I've seen have been wild. Now here is where the questions come in; first, which fish that I currently have will be able to survive the high temps that discus require? second, angels and discus together? I've gotten two different feedbacks one was no because the angels were too aggressive, and the second was as long as the discus were introduced first. Any advice would be appreciated. Especially Lenny he gives great advice. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 6:44:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town

I've read many times of folks having trouble keeping their Otos alive so it could be that the Otos died naturally and then the ADF or other fish snacked on them... so you may not have a Hannibal Lector ADF. LOL (At least I think you had an ADF... I could be confusing you with another member) You could treat the plants first in a quarantine bucket to try and kill off any snails/eggs. That reminds me.. I should probably add links to disinfecting plants on my new Planted Tank blog. I just added the links for disinfecting/sanitizing plants to the Planted Tank blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town So I went out to my LFS to see if they carried frozen fish foods and not just the freeze dried, thankfully they do carry it and I picked up some bloodworms and brine shrimp for now. Should I get any others or is this good for my community tank for now? I also got 2 more plants for my tank (live ones), I have mostly fake plants in my tank (the silk ones) and will now have 3 real plants. I like the looks of the real ones better, I just hope the snails don't take over my tank ;) I have decided that since I have bad luck keeping the otocinclus catfish that I'm replacing them with a couple of yoyo loaches to keep any snail issues to a minimum. I know that the yoyo loaches stay small so that'll be good. I'm just going to get 2 of the loaches though, not a school of them as I haven't read anywhere that they are schooling fish. If I am wrong please let me know :) Out of my 5 oto's I only have 2 left, and nothing should have been causing them to die in my tank, and since they died the last time I got them I have decided to just give up on having them, lol. I'd rather not waste money on a fish that for some reason doesn't go well in my tank. Oh and my LFS also told me that there is a lady in town selling her 125 gallon tank and will probably give me a good deal on it. It comes with the hood, light, and a canopy to match the stand. I'm not sure if it comes with a filter or not, but I'm sure I can get one online if I have to. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 7:41:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32512	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

Hello Sam, While you seem to have the concept of UG filtration fairly well grasped, there is a slight difference in the main methods of operation of UGF's between air operated filters and powerhead operated UGF's, albeit both terminating toward the same end. Air operated UGF's push the water up the filter tube intermittantly with replacement water filling in each succeeding void left by this action -- in a way, a vacuum to that extent, but the actual method of operation still remains the water being pushed by the air beneath it. Powerheads do operate by causing a constant vacuum, but do not pull air through the tubes -- unless one prefers to still make use of operating these filters with attached airlines, while additionally using powerheads with this. Normally, the use of powerheads attached to the UGF tubes would make air-operation redundant, and would render air operation of the UGF as obsolete and of no further assistance especially since power operation results in a flow rate so much faster than air operation; the purpose of going to powerheads. Directly addressing Lisa's question on how these filters work, as water is drawn out from beneath these UGF plates, replacement water is drawn down through the substrate in an area equal to that of the area of the UGF plate. As the UGF's are in constant operation, this water continually carries fresh oxygen with it down through the substrate allowing for nitrifying bacteria to colonize the majority of this medium. At this same time, organic waste is also drawn down into the substrate where it is broken down by this nitrifying bacteria. Essentially, via this action, the substrate becomes one large biological filter and with it, a mechanical filter with which the debris/particles are ideally (if only theoretically) broken down by this action as well; although this end result is never fully realized. BTW, your signature with your posts would go a long ways in establishing a more friendly atmosphere, even if its not required. It just makes for a closer knit group. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and > the plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by > pulling air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the filter > and > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > the > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from plugging > the > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > Thanks > > > > Lisa > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32513	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

Impossible, I thought you were only 25 years old (LOL). Yes, I too had these filters in some of my tanks over 40 years ago, but all too soon discovered their drawbacks. Of course there were no such things as powerheads back then, so eventually pockets of putrifying debris built up in different areas when anaerobic bacteria took over there. Pythons, or other aquarium gravel power vacuums (and most other wide- mouthed vacuums) for more efficiently cleaning (removing clogged debris pockets) the gravel were also non-existant although I remember those battery operated gravel cleaners with the debris bags which were never very efficient. Prefer not to even use them today, even though I still have a few new-in-box units from back then (collectors items <g>). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I had a UGF 40 years ago, but today I would use a power filter a.k.a. HOB > (hang on back) filter like allie. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of allie1068@... > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters > > > > The debris and fish poop from my understanding collect under the plates and > you have to pull them out every so often to clean them. I've herd its the > worst smell ever. Correct me if I'm wrong about this one please but I will > never use them personally I'm a creature of habit and am perfectly content > with me aquaclear filters and me pythons. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@ <mailto:lisa_lawless2004% 40yahoo.com.au> > yahoo.com.au> > > Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:42:32 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters > > > So what about the debris? The fish poo and all that? Where does that > go if there is no filter medium to catch it? > > Do the UG's just airate the tank water? > > And would i still need to do a weekly vaccume of the gravel, and a > 20% water change? > > Lisa > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@> > wrote: > > > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and > > the plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by > > pulling air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the > filter > > and > > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > > the > > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from > plugging > > the > > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > > Thanks > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32514	From: joe t	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Photos and description of ballast I need to replace

Dora, The "twisty caps" as you call them just screw off and on.   The caps have treads, but they "screw" on to the wires.  Their purpose is to hold the wires that should be joined together.  I am  just saying this for your information, but I don't suggest you doing it if you are not sure of what you are doing.  We are talking of electrical connections that will be mighty close to water.  Everybody knows the two do not get along.   If you don't do it right water will, sooner or later, get into the connections and you will have a problem......potentially a big problem.   If you are not around and it blows a fuse or trips a circuit breaker, little problem.  If it starts a fire, big problem. Bottom line, if you or a friend do not know how to do it properly, you are better off buying a new one. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32515	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

I too used UGF back in the 60s and 70s.  This would be beyond 40 years.  Back then we never heard anything about PWC.  I remember having a 30 gal tank with two Ocars in the 60s and feeding them beef heart.  I finally added a HOB filter along with the UGF to help keep the water clear.  We didn't know anything about the nitrogen cycle in aquariums then although I do remember studying it it college.  About once a year I would totally clean the tank and gravel, otherwise I just topped off the water that evaporated.  The aquariums were much louder with the air pumps running the UGF then.  Poor fish.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 8:08:20 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters Impossible, I thought you were only 25 years old (LOL). Yes, I too had these filters in some of my tanks over 40 years ago, but all too soon discovered their drawbacks. Of course there were no such things as powerheads back then, so eventually pockets of putrifying debris built up in different areas when anaerobic bacteria took over there. Pythons, or other aquarium gravel power vacuums (and most other wide- mouthed vacuums) for more efficiently cleaning (removing clogged debris pockets) the gravel were also non-existant although I remember those battery operated gravel cleaners with the debris bags which were never very efficient. Prefer not to even use them today, even though I still have a few new-in-box units from back then (collectors items <g>). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Donna Ransome <djransome@. ..> wrote: > > I had a UGF 40 years ago, but today I would use a power filter a.k.a. HOB > (hang on back) filter like allie. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of allie1068@.. . > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters > > > > The debris and fish poop from my understanding collect under the plates and > you have to pull them out every so often to clean them. I've herd its the > worst smell ever. Correct me if I'm wrong about this one please but I will > never use them personally I'm a creature of habit and am perfectly content > with me aquaclear filters and me pythons. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@ <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au> > yahoo.com.au> > > Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:42:32 > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters > > > So what about the debris? The fish poo and all that? Where does that > go if there is no filter medium to catch it? > > Do the UG's just airate the tank water? > > And would i still need to do a weekly vaccume of the gravel, and a > 20% water change? > > Lisa > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com, > "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@ > > wrote: > > > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and > > the plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by > > pulling air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > yahoogroups. com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the > filter > > and > > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > > the > > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from > plugging > > the > > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > > Thanks > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32516	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never

Hello Sam, Glad you finally came forward with an introduction. Welcome aboard and hope you feel right at home. In browsing some of your posts, I notice you have some knowledge of the hobby; hope you will enjoy sharing aquarium info here, both in offering and in receiving. I have noticed as you state, that you have yet to introduce yourself, even while posting all along. Its for this reason of your not seeming amicable enough to introduce yourself since your first post of September 1st (which I could not understand) that I have not chosen to address many of your messages. Hopefully, the way you've been perceived on my end has been a misconception and I extend a hand of good will to you at this time. Noticed you've received two different feedbacks on whether to cohabit Altum Angels with Discus. Your proposed 150 gallon tank would seem tempting enough to house these two species together, and certainly large enough if it weren't for taking both of these species demeanor into consideration. First it should be known that Altum Angels will easily well exceed 12" in height if properly grown, even if their body would not be quite equal in size the Discus. Under no circumstances should these Angels be considered as tank mates for Discus, although they both enjoy very similar conditions -- even to their temperature likings. Its not necessarily that the Altum Angels (or any other Pterophyllum species) are too aggressive -- with as much room as a 150 gallon tank would afford, this comparative small difference in behavior would be of liitle consequence. The major problem comes at feeding time, and the difference in behavior of these two species at that time Angels are much more boisterous at these times, feeding more "actively," preventing the Discus from getting their needed share. By housing these two species in the same tank, unless the Angel's numbers are considerably fewer than that of the Discus, you will be risking slow malnutrition for the Discus. Of your present fish, your Chocolate Gourami's enjoy warmer temperatures up around 86 o, so they should not be a problem. Harlequin Rasboras do well up to 88 o, which you would not need to go to and while most Tetras prefer it somewhat cooler, surprisingly, Black Tetras prefer 84 o to 86 o for breeding although they may not necessarily appreciate sustained temperatures at that level. Keep, in mind that adult of either Altum Angels or Discus do not require any higher than 84 o, although juvie Discus should be maintained at 86 o. You should know too, that wild Altum Angels (and most offered are wild, if you're still wondering) require conditions of water purity equal to, if not -- exceeding, that of Discus, and need quite frequent PWC's. There are a very limited number of sources that make available tank-raised P. altum, but these are not readily available. Most P. altum are collected from the Orinoco River (Venezuala) during the dry season. Unlike areas south of the equator such as the Amazon Rain Forest where they have a rainy season from December through April, the Orinoco River Basin experiences their dry season extending from October through March/April to January through May, depending on the locale. If you're still looking for Altum Angels, you might start being on the lookout for them in a few months. I seem to notice more of them being imported towards the end of the dry season, around March/April. Be aware too that P. Altums require some veggie matter in their diet, in case you hadn't know that before. Lots of luck and much success with the 150, and keep us posted on it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > Hey everyone my name is Sam and though I have been a member for a > while now I have never introduced myself to the group. Currently I > have 2 29 gallon tanks and am looking into purchasing a 150 gallon > tank. I know what you're thinking, that's one hell of an upgrade, > right? Well anyway, my first 29 gallon has chocolate gouramis, a > betta, some harlequins rasboras, some otocinclus and some algae > shrimp. The second has two cuviceps cichlids, black tetras, and > pencilfish, oh yeah and three guppies. The guppies were put in there > to do what guppies do and that is, breed a lot to supply my fish with > a regular supply of live food. I've been keeping tropical fish for > almost 20 years and still love it. But, after keeping all of the > standard fish that all LFS have to offer I want to step up to > something a little more challenging. Hence why I have the chocolate > gouramis, but I want to try altum angelfish and discus. Due to the > lack of info on altum angelfish breeding I assume that most of the > ones that I've seen have been wild. Now here is where the questions > come in; first, which fish that I currently have will be able to > survive the high temps that discus require? second, angels and discus > together? I've gotten two different feedbacks one was no because the > angels were too aggressive, and the second was as long as the discus > were introduced first. Any advice would be appreciated. Especially > Lenny he gives great advice. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32517	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: The Under Gravel Filter Question??

There�s seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further.. Are you folks using them?� With power heads? � Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now.� Not wishing to do a setup twice I�d like to know; Under gravel�s yes or no.� Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used. � Your comments please, in short:� �Whatcha Think�? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32518	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the AquaticLife group: What do you think about UGF's (Under Gravel Filters)? Do you still use them? o I think they are still the best filter system and they are the only kind I use o I think they are OK and still use them on some of my tanks o I thought they were OK but no longer use them o I think they are far too inefficient and too hard to maintain o I've never used a UGF filter To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/surveys?id=2448352 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??

I'll be honest and admit I'm not as old as some of the others out here... nor have I ever pretended to be... so HOB's and Canister filters were the only kinds that I've ever used on my main tanks... although I have used small air pump driven box/sponge filters on Q-tanks or H-tanks. I also created a poll about your question so we can get an idea of what percentage of people are still using them and what they think of them in this group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? There’s seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further.. Are you folks using them? With power heads? Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now. Not wishing to do a setup twice I’d like to know; Under gravel’s yes or no. Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used. Your comments please, in short: “Whatcha Think”? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 10:31:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 10:37:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32520	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??

Although I am not one of the more experienced ones I have had several years experience with UGF.� I no longer use them.� I feel like they are outdated and it is much easier to keep and clean canisters and HOB.� They also do a better job than UGF IMO.� An UGF is probably ok if it is maintained properly and there is also a HOB to keep water clear. �Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 10:16:18 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? There�s seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further.. Are you folks using them?� With power heads? � Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now.� Not wishing to do a setup twice I�d like to know; Under gravel�s yes or no.� Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used. � Your comments please, in short:� �Whatcha Think�? � Bill � � � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32521	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

Yeah, basically thats all they're good for is aeration. In theory what happens is it gets the debris as it breaks down and pulls it under the plates to be siphoned out by you when you do your weekly water changes. I don't recommend them but if you have one with proper maintenance you can still have a healthy tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > So what about the debris? The fish poo and all that? Where does that > go if there is no filter medium to catch it? > > Do the UG's just airate the tank water? > > And would i still need to do a weekly vaccume of the gravel, and a > 20% water change? > > Lisa > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@> > wrote: > > > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and > > the plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by > > pulling air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the > filter > > and > > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > > the > > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from > plugging > > the > > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > > Thanks > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32522	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town

I have also had a hard time getting Ottos to live.  It has taken me several months to get a shoal of 5 built up.  It seems that every time I get 3, 2 will die before they are ready to come out of quarantine.  Once they make it thru quarantine I have never lost one.  I usually lose them in 1 or 2 days after I obtain them.  This is probable due to them being very prone to stress from catching and moving both from the supplier to the LFS and from the LFS to home.  I can usually tell immediately which ones will make it and which ones want.  If healthy they can sure clean up a tank quickly and will need additional feeding.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 7:41:31 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town I've read many times of folks having trouble keeping their Otos alive so it could be that the Otos died naturally and then the ADF or other fish snacked on them... so you may not have a Hannibal Lector ADF. LOL (At least I think you had an ADF... I could be confusing you with another member) You could treat the plants first in a quarantine bucket to try and kill off any snails/eggs. That reminds me.. I should probably add links to disinfecting plants on my new Planted Tank blog. I just added the links for disinfecting/ sanitizing plants to the Planted Tank blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:44 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town So I went out to my LFS to see if they carried frozen fish foods and not just the freeze dried, thankfully they do carry it and I picked up some bloodworms and brine shrimp for now. Should I get any others or is this good for my community tank for now? I also got 2 more plants for my tank (live ones), I have mostly fake plants in my tank (the silk ones) and will now have 3 real plants. I like the looks of the real ones better, I just hope the snails don't take over my tank ;) I have decided that since I have bad luck keeping the otocinclus catfish that I'm replacing them with a couple of yoyo loaches to keep any snail issues to a minimum. I know that the yoyo loaches stay small so that'll be good. I'm just going to get 2 of the loaches though, not a school of them as I haven't read anywhere that they are schooling fish. If I am wrong please let me know :) Out of my 5 oto's I only have 2 left, and nothing should have been causing them to die in my tank, and since they died the last time I got them I have decided to just give up on having them, lol. I'd rather not waste money on a fish that for some reason doesn't go well in my tank. Oh and my LFS also told me that there is a lady in town selling her 125 gallon tank and will probably give me a good deal on it. It comes with the hood, light, and a canopy to match the stand. I'm not sure if it comes with a filter or not, but I'm sure I can get one online if I have to. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 7:41:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32523	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town / Lenny's questi

\\Steve//, I know you're a bit of a computer guru besides being a fish guru also. Have you ever found a reason why URL's are now being broken at the 16-18 character point... which is a recent occurrence that I've only noticed with Yahoo Groups? It doesn't seem to be Yahoo Groups that is doing this but something else.. or may it is Yahoo Groups. If you look down at my previous reply below Jimmy's reply, you'll see that the two email addresses included in the Yahoo Header are intact but then my Blog URL and any email addresses below my post (even Yahoo Header email addresses from earlier replies) are all broken at the 16-18 character mark... but then all the way down, the LONG yahoo links included in the footer area are all intact. Considering the length of their own URL's included in every group message, you'd think they would allow the much shorter URL's that most of us might post. Any thoughts? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town I have also had a hard time getting Ottos to live. It has taken me several months to get a shoal of 5 built up. It seems that every time I get 3, 2 will die before they are ready to come out of quarantine. Once they make it thru quarantine I have never lost one. I usually lose them in 1 or 2 days after I obtain them. This is probable due to them being very prone to stress from catching and moving both from the supplier to the LFS and from the LFS to home. I can usually tell immediately which ones will make it and which ones want. If healthy they can sure clean up a tank quickly and will need additional feeding. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 7:41:31 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town I've read many times of folks having trouble keeping their Otos alive so it could be that the Otos died naturally and then the ADF or other fish snacked on them... so you may not have a Hannibal Lector ADF. LOL (At least I think you had an ADF... I could be confusing you with another member) You could treat the plants first in a quarantine bucket to try and kill off any snails/eggs. That reminds me.. I should probably add links to disinfecting plants on my new Planted Tank blog. I just added the links for disinfecting/ sanitizing plants to the Planted Tank blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:44 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town So I went out to my LFS to see if they carried frozen fish foods and not just the freeze dried, thankfully they do carry it and I picked up some bloodworms and brine shrimp for now. Should I get any others or is this good for my community tank for now? I also got 2 more plants for my tank (live ones), I have mostly fake plants in my tank (the silk ones) and will now have 3 real plants. I like the looks of the real ones better, I just hope the snails don't take over my tank ;) I have decided that since I have bad luck keeping the otocinclus catfish that I'm replacing them with a couple of yoyo loaches to keep any snail issues to a minimum. I know that the yoyo loaches stay small so that'll be good. I'm just going to get 2 of the loaches though, not a school of them as I haven't read anywhere that they are schooling fish. If I am wrong please let me know :) Out of my 5 oto's I only have 2 left, and nothing should have been causing them to die in my tank, and since they died the last time I got them I have decided to just give up on having them, lol. I'd rather not waste money on a fish that for some reason doesn't go well in my tank. Oh and my LFS also told me that there is a lady in town selling her 125 gallon tank and will probably give me a good deal on it. It comes with the hood, light, and a canopy to match the stand. I'm not sure if it comes with a filter or not, but I'm sure I can get one online if I have to. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 7:41:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 10:57:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 11:05:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32524	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!

Folks some of you may recall that I have well water out here in PA. � That said, I had no idea until this morning, what the water quality was. Here is the first post of the stats: � PH�� ��� 5.5 No2�� � ��.3 Nh3/4� 1.5 GH����� 2.0 KH������� .trace� the test said to count the drops and I got a color change ������������ after only one drop. �������������� � special thanks to whoever posted that poll--------I'll be watching.� While I�m being brazen and asking for all this help and information maybe someone could tell me if one of these polls or something similar has also been done for the use of Vortex Diatom Filters for aquariums.� As you can probably already tell, I�m very �old school� on the hobby so please bear with me.� I�ve just returned to the hobby and trying to catch up from 30 years ago to now and don�t want to do anything stupid with my fish.. � Bill � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32525	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??

Thanks Len, � Did you catch my just posted water report?� I'll be at church this Sunday, I can guarantee that! � Very surprised and upset � Bill --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 11:37 AM I'll be honest and admit I'm not as old as some of the others out here... nor have I ever pretended to be... so HOB's and Canister filters were the only kinds that I've ever used on my main tanks... although I have used small air pump driven box/sponge filters on Q-tanks or H-tanks. I also created a poll about your question so we can get an idea of what percentage of people are still using them and what they think of them in this group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: w>AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? There�s seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further.. Are you folks using them? With power heads? Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now. Not wishing to do a setup twice I�d like to know; Under gravel�s yes or no. Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used. Your comments please, in short: �Whatcha Think�? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 10:31:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 10:37:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!

WOW... just the opposite of what you were thinking... but of course, the pH could change as the CO2 outgases.. if that is the reason for your low pH. That could be why you are having leaky pipe problems as well. The low pH (acidic) over a period of dozens of years, will slowly corrode the pipes down from the inside out until they start to leak. It's why most major city utilities actually add buffering agents at the water plants to keep the pH up during the transmission through the city pipes so they are not having to make repairs as often. Give us the numbers on the same water sample tomorrow and lets see if or how much they've changed. As it looks, at least you know you don't have to worry about keeping African cichlids or use distilled water. If anything, you'll be adding hardeners and Baking Soda to your water to buffer it up a little. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:56 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters! Folks some of you may recall that I have well water out here in PA. That said, I had no idea until this morning, what the water quality was. Here is the first post of the stats: PH 5.5 No2 .3 Nh3/4 1.5 GH 2.0 KH .trace the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop. special thanks to whoever posted that poll--------I'll be watching. While I'm being brazen and asking for all this help and information maybe someone could tell me if one of these polls or something similar has also been done for the use of Vortex Diatom Filters for aquariums. As you can probably already tell, I'm very "old school" on the hobby so please bear with me. I've just returned to the hobby and trying to catch up from 30 years ago to now and don't want to do anything stupid with my fish.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 11:25:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32527	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Angel Fry-update

Thanks for the detailed infos Ray, yet I have more detailed questions to make sure I get it right next time. What size of container is best to grow the infusoria? Do I really need to put an airstone? it's not easy to set a pump and a set of air taps and pipes and move all that twice aday to follow the sunlight from my east window to the west window. Should the container be closed or left open ? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32528	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!

Not to doubt or upset you BUT are you trying to say that the well water could possibly be a GO?   Oh! Happy Days?   Bill --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 12:25 PM WOW... just the opposite of what you were thinking... but of course, the pH could change as the CO2 outgases.. if that is the reason for your low pH. That could be why you are having leaky pipe problems as well. The low pH (acidic) over a period of dozens of years, will slowly corrode the pipes down from the inside out until they start to leak. It's why most major city utilities actually add buffering agents at the water plants to keep the pH up during the transmission through the city pipes so they are not having to make repairs as often. Give us the numbers on the same water sample tomorrow and lets see if or how much they've changed. As it looks, at least you know you don't have to worry about keeping African cichlids or use distilled water. If anything, you'll be adding hardeners and Baking Soda to your water to buffer it up a little. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:56 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters! Folks some of you may recall that I have well water out here in PA. That said, I had no idea until this morning, what the water quality was. Here is the first post of the stats: PH 5.5 No2 .3 Nh3/4 1.5 GH 2.0 KH .trace the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop. special thanks to whoever posted that poll-------- I'll be watching. While I'm being brazen and asking for all this help and information maybe someone could tell me if one of these polls or something similar has also been done for the use of Vortex Diatom Filters for aquariums. As you can probably already tell, I'm very "old school" on the hobby so please bear with me. I've just returned to the hobby and trying to catch up from 30 years ago to now and don't want to do anything stupid with my fish.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 11:25:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32529	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!

Well. The only thing that is "high" is the ammonia (NH3/NH4) but with such a low pH, that level of ammonia is negligible and once you tank is cycled, when doing a 25% PWC, it will only raise your ammonia level to 0.375ppm which should be easily handled by your biofiltration/plants within a matter of minutes. It could also be just a temporary ammonia level so you'll have to do baseline testing on a regular basis to keep an eye on it... especially if you start raising the pH. Using SeaChem Prime as your tap water dechlor would alleviate any concern about the ammonia level but if you are going to be fishless cycling, you won't need it and once the tank is cycled, it won't be as much of an issue. The NO2- (nitrite) issue is likely due to nitrifying bacteria converting some of the ammonia. You could also have high nitrates (since you may be having cycling going on in your pipes or water supply) but we'll have to wait for you to get that test kit to know for sure. If the KH is that low to start with, then the nitrifying bacteria will not really grow well but if the KH is that low because you have a lot of cycling going on in your pipes or water supply, then you could end up with a very high nitrate level. You will definitely have to raise the KH during the fishless cycle and then possibly develop a dosage schedule for your tank(s) depending on the fish, etc. I use a heaping teaspoon of Baking Soda in my 65G goldfish tank each week to keep the KH up between weekly PWC's but I have a lot going on in that tank between the two goldfish, plants and the rest of the tanks ecology. I check it every couple of months to make sure my dosing is working. Now that the fish are full grown, things stay pretty much the same.. although my plants are taking off a lot more since I upgraded my lighting recently. Your GH level could be adjusted up as well depending on what kind of fish you are planning but that's easy to do also with store bought products (that add the actual trace elements) or a DIY mixtures. You could also use pieces of Cuttle Bone (easily found at WalMart in the pet bird food section) in your filter to add calcium carbonate (or buy it bulk online... I've even seen bulk packages sold cheap on eBay) which would raise the GH and KH. You would have to experiment with this also to find out how much to add to raise it and keep it sustained and then you could just drop more pieces in as needed as the other pieces dissolve. The easiest thing would be to keep fish that love your water parameters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters! Not to doubt or upset you BUT are you trying to say that the well water could possibly be a GO? Oh! Happy Days? Bill --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 12:25 PM WOW... just the opposite of what you were thinking... but of course, the pH could change as the CO2 outgases.. if that is the reason for your low pH. That could be why you are having leaky pipe problems as well. The low pH (acidic) over a period of dozens of years, will slowly corrode the pipes down from the inside out until they start to leak. It's why most major city utilities actually add buffering agents at the water plants to keep the pH up during the transmission through the city pipes so they are not having to make repairs as often. Give us the numbers on the same water sample tomorrow and lets see if or how much they've changed. As it looks, at least you know you don't have to worry about keeping African cichlids or use distilled water. If anything, you'll be adding hardeners and Baking Soda to your water to buffer it up a little. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:56 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters! Folks some of you may recall that I have well water out here in PA. That said, I had no idea until this morning, what the water quality was. Here is the first post of the stats: PH 5.5 No2 .3 Nh3/4 1.5 GH 2.0 KH .trace the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop. special thanks to whoever posted that poll-------- I'll be watching. While I'm being brazen and asking for all this help and information maybe someone could tell me if one of these polls or something similar has also been done for the use of Vortex Diatom Filters for aquariums. As you can probably already tell, I'm very "old school" on the hobby so please bear with me. I've just returned to the hobby and trying to catch up from 30 years ago to now and don't want to do anything stupid with my fish.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 11:25:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 11:54:30 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 12:16:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32530	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??

Ahh, so your the one who wrote the poll. I still use sponge filters although I prefer Hang on back filters, Aqua Clear's are my favorites. But for economical reasons I use mostly sponge filters. I am down to about 30 ish tanks now and running probably close to 45 sponge filters. I have maybe half a dozen box filters that I use with filter floss to clean up cloudy tanks that I may have let go a bit too far. Sponge and Box filters are fairly low maintenance and I only have two linear air pumps running all of them. I think two powerful air pumps instead of 35 power filters works out better in my situation. Far less electrical use, and so far in the new fish room I am only using two heaters in one aquarium and it seems to be heating the whole fish room quite nicely. My madagascar tank needs to be a higher temp than most tanks and the excess heat keeps the room comfy. I assume as the winter season prgresses I will need to add additional heaters and I will add them to the bottom rows of tanks first and see how well that heats the rest of the taks. I have done that in the past with good results. I started with UGF plates as they came with my first couple tanks. What a nightmare for me. I know now in retrospect that they can be maintained and work with some efficiency however I wil not go that route again if at all possible. Do you want me to send you all my old UGF plates Lenny?  :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 8:37 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? I'll be honest and admit I'm not as old as some of the others out here... nor have I ever pretended to be... so HOB's and Canister filters were the only kinds that I've ever used on my main tanks... although I have used small air pump driven box/sponge filters on Q-tanks or H-tanks. I also created a poll about your question so we can get an idea of what percentage of people are still using them and what they think of them in this group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? There’s seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further.. Are you folks using them? With power heads? Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now. Not wishing to do a setup twice I’d like to know; Under gravel’s yes or no. Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used. Your comments please, in short: “Whatcha Think”? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 10:31:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 10:37:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32531	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: fluidized filters

So does anyone else out there used a lifeguard (or other brand) fluidized bed filter? I have been using it for only a couple of weeks along with my magnum 350 filter and I'm not sure if it does anything or not. But since my tank should be established by now (it's just about 2 months old), it's hard to tell if it's actually creating a bacteria colony like it's "supposed" to. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32532	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: fluidized filters

Are you overstocking your tank? I don't think these are needed on normal tanks. The filter media in your Marineland Magnum 350 canister should be plenty for even a heavily stocked tank. Was this a freebie or did someone sell you on this idea? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fluidized filters So does anyone else out there used a lifeguard (or other brand) fluidized bed filter? I have been using it for only a couple of weeks along with my magnum 350 filter and I'm not sure if it does anything or not. But since my tank should be established by now (it's just about 2 months old), it's hard to tell if it's actually creating a bacteria colony like it's "supposed" to. Thanks, Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 2:02:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32533	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: loaches

Ugh, okay so I got 2 loaches and they promptly both died in my tank overnight. Apparently I have as much luck with them as I do the oto's. I have done a reading on my tank and other than my softness nothing is out of wack. My KH barely reads on the test strip but I didn't add any aquarium salt this last time I did a tank change yesterday. Are loaches hard to keep alive too? I let them acclimate to the water and also added a little of my tank water over an hour and then added them to the tank, they were fine until the lights went out for bedtime last night... Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: loaches

Aquarium salt will not raise your KH level. Baking Soda will. Give us all of your water parameters from the tank and your tap water baseline numbers and let us know if any of them have changed much in recent weeks. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temp. Also GH and KH. Is your KH out the tap and the 48 hour baseline test near 0 dH also? Also test your tank water for pH first thing in the morning before turning on the tank lights and then right before you turn off your lights in the evening and give us both of those numbers. Do you have a lot of live plants? What were the water parameters of the place where you bought the loaches? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] loaches Ugh, okay so I got 2 loaches and they promptly both died in my tank overnight. Apparently I have as much luck with them as I do the oto's. I have done a reading on my tank and other than my softness nothing is out of wack. My KH barely reads on the test strip but I didn't add any aquarium salt this last time I did a tank change yesterday. Are loaches hard to keep alive too? I let them acclimate to the water and also added a little of my tank water over an hour and then added them to the tank, they were fine until the lights went out for bedtime last night... Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 2:10:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32535	From: cheeseymicron03	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Itchy Fish

Okay so my two red devils are doing great. They have almost doubled in size since I got them. I did my regular 20% water change two days ago and everything in the tank has been great. This morning I noticed one of the two scratching up against a rock. The fish are about 1.5 inches-2 inches long so I dont think its trying to lay eggs yet. I was giong to add in some salt (its got none in there right now) but I wanted to check with you guys on the right dosing. There are no visiable signs of the ich parasite on the fish but I'm assuming this is the first symptom. I did add in two convicts with them but they were quaritined first for 2 weeks and showed no signs of illness. They were added 2-3 weeks ago I'm assuming this possible outbreak would be from stress. The convicts are the same size as the devils and they still show no sign of illness. Also they are not acting agressive towards each other. While I'm typing this one of my devils is almost acting like its eatting off of the wall of the tank. It's either eatting or head banging one of the two. Thanks Sarah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32536	From: Chris	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Added an additional filter to my tank

I placed a sponge filter in my cycled aquarium so I can transfer it into a new tank for near future guppy fry. The thought came to mind after I installed the new filter that since my tank is cycled, there may not be sufficient ammonia to build a colony inside that new filter. Is that correct, or will it work out in the end?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32537	From: Chris	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog

I was tired and rushed posting. I should have been more thurough. The question was really about siphoning the gravel. Did I read right that siphoning removes the established bacteria that live in the gravel? If you have a artical that explains it, please post the link, because I cannot find it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32538	From: jett07002	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never

Hello, Ray. Question for you. Going back aways, I remember seeing/hearing that it was not a good idea to keep angels and discus together because the angels would either give and/or make the discus susceptible to some disease. For the life of me I can't remember what the disease was, but it wasn't good for the discus. Since that time I have not kept the two fish in the same tank together. I didn't want to have problems with the discus. Now this may have been all nonsense. As you know, in those days everything was a "big secret" and "the guys in the know" were not as willing to part with their knowledge. (I've discussed that before so we won't go into that again.) Can you please give me some feedback on that? joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32539	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Added an additional filter to my tank

Since the fish are constantly releasing ammonia into the water column, as well as any ammonia release from decaying food/plant matter, etc., the sponge filter will start growing it's own nitrifying bacteria colony on it. You could speed it up if you rubbed your sponge on the already cycled filter media of your other filter resulting in some microscopic transfer and then those bacteria will continue to grow on your sponge filter. If you were planning on needing to use the sponge filter in the coming days, this would be recommended. Remember the filters will grow proportionate sized colonies based on the amount of water (aka food) flowing through them so if the sponge is producing 10% of the water flow and the other filter is producing 90% of the water flow, then the nitrifying bacteria on each filter system will likely be in those same proportions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 2:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Added an additional filter to my tank I placed a sponge filter in my cycled aquarium so I can transfer it into a new tank for near future guppy fry. The thought came to mind after I installed the new filter that since my tank is cycled, there may not be sufficient ammonia to build a colony inside that new filter. Is that correct, or will it work out in the end? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 3:45:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32540	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Itchy Fish

Fish commonly do that when they have parasites. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "cheeseymicron03" <cheese911@...> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 20:33:55 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Itchy Fish Okay so my two red devils are doing great. They have almost doubled in size since I got them. I did my regular 20% water change two days ago and everything in the tank has been great. This morning I noticed one of the two scratching up against a rock. The fish are about 1.5 inches-2 inches long so I dont think its trying to lay eggs yet. I was giong to add in some salt (its got none in there right now) but I wanted to check with you guys on the right dosing. There are no visiable signs of the ich parasite on the fish but I'm assuming this is the first symptom. I did add in two convicts with them but they were quaritined first for 2 weeks and showed no signs of illness. They were added 2-3 weeks ago I'm assuming this possible outbreak would be from stress. The convicts are the same size as the devils and they still show no sign of illness. Also they are not acting agressive towards each other. While I'm typing this one of my devils is almost acting like its eatting off of the wall of the tank. It's either eatting or head banging one of the two. Thanks Sarah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog

What are you reading that is giving you this bad info? If any of this bad info you are reading came from my blog or a link from my blog, please let me know so I can promptly remove it or at least write a disclaimer next to the link. Nitrifying bacteria are microscopic and live on the surface areas.. mostly in the filter media since there is far more surface area in a single floss pad compared to all of the gravel... but there are also bacteria on the gravel. The siphon does not suck hard enough to remove the bacteria from the gravel. After all, they live on the surface areas of all of the fibers in a filter pads and sponges and the water rushing through the filter does not dislodge them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 2:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Lenny, Your Blog I was tired and rushed posting. I should have been more thurough. The question was really about siphoning the gravel. Did I read right that siphoning removes the established bacteria that live in the gravel? If you have a artical that explains it, please post the link, because I cannot find it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 3:51:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32542	From: Bobby York	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Reverse Flow Undergravel Filter

I have a nice 30" cabinet and canopy that I'm in the process of refinishing. I bought a 37 gallon tank to fit the stand. I'm thinking about setting this up as a small community marine tank. I'm also thinking about going with a reverse flow under gravel filter for biological and using a Magnum 350 I have laying around for mechanical and chemical filtration. Can anyone talk me into or out of this?!?!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32543	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < ivyrose@... >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is great. I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32544	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never

Hi Joe, Interesting that somewhere along the line you've been informed not to keep Angels and Discus together for this reason. I've never heard of this as a reason for not having these fish together (and I go way back -- LOL), but I can understand where it may have come from. Angels, especially a proportion of wild Angels, are known to carry internal parasites (Hexamita) which -- unless they're stressed, they learn to live with, having their immune system keep this in balance almost like a symbiotic relationship (but certainly of no benefit to the fish). These protozoans can easily affect Discus as well -- especially tank raised Discus which were never exposed to them, and which therefore have no immunity to them. Yes, I know in earlier times, there were some hobbyists who were reluctant to pass on any of their little "secrets" but fortunately that mind-set has gone by the way-side. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > Hello, Ray. > > Question for you. Going back aways, I remember seeing/hearing that > it was not a good idea to keep angels and discus together because the > angels would either give and/or make the discus susceptible to some > disease. For the life of me I can't remember what the disease was, > but it wasn't good for the discus. Since that time I have not kept > the two fish in the same tank together. I didn't want to have > problems with the discus. > > Now this may have been all nonsense. As you know, in those days > everything was a "big secret" and "the guys in the know" were not as > willing to part with their knowledge. (I've discussed that before so > we won't go into that again.) > > Can you please give me some feedback on that? > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32545	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!

Bill, Take that water sample you've just drawn and place an airstone in it overnight. Doesn't need to be operated very fast. This should help off-gas any CO2. Give us another reading in the morning; it should come up. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Folks some of you may recall that I have well water out here in PA. >   > That said, I had no idea until this morning, what the water quality was. > Here is the first post of the stats: >   > PH       5.5 > No2       .3 > Nh3/4  1.5 > GH      2.0 > KH        .trace  the test said to count the drops and I got a color change >              after only one drop. >                >   > special thanks to whoever posted that poll--------I'll be watching.  > While I'm being brazen and asking for all this help and information maybe someone could tell me if one of these polls or something similar has also > been done for the use of Vortex Diatom Filters for aquariums.  As you can probably already tell, I'm very "old school" on the hobby so please bear with me.  I've just returned to the hobby and trying to catch up from 30 years ago to now and don't want to do anything stupid with my fish.. >   > Bill >   > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32546	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

I have an UG filter because of space restrictions. The Hang on filter would be too big for the space the the tank is going to sit on  On tuesday i am going to go back to my LFS and ask them.   Now do i need both ...hold on... the box the filter came in says that it includes carbon cartridges. Is that what collects the debris?   This link is similar to the ug system i have been given  http://www.brooklands.co.nz/article/113.htm   Find your perfect match today at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1012 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32547	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

You're right Lenny, I meant 14, LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters Wow... you had an aquarium pre-conception? Or are you admitting your age.. or is that a typo and you only meant to type "4 years ago"? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters I had a UGF 40 years ago, but today I would use a power filter a.k.a. HOB (hang on back) filter like allie. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of allie1068@yahoo. <mailto:allie1068%40yahoo.com> com <mailto:allie1068%40yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:34 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters The debris and fish poop from my understanding collect under the plates and you have to pull them out every so often to clean them. I've herd its the worst smell ever. Correct me if I'm wrong about this one please but I will never use them personally I'm a creature of habit and am perfectly content with me aquaclear filters and me pythons. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@ <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:42:32 To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters So what about the debris? The fish poo and all that? Where does that go if there is no filter medium to catch it? Do the UG's just airate the tank water? And would i still need to do a weekly vaccume of the gravel, and a 20% water change? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "va22_vyshys" <va22_vyshys@...> wrote: > > UG Filters work by using air to pull debris through the gravel and the > plates. The air, in your case a powerhead, creates a vacuum by pulling > air and water through the tubes that connect to the plates. > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> > wrote: > > > > Okay. So I am yet to pick up the actual tank itself, but in the > > meantime i thought it might me a wise idea to check out the filter > and > > heater that i now have got at hoem ready to set up. > > > > I worked out the heater. > > > > And i have connected the u/g filter's plates togeather, attached > the > > filter tube, and the airline inside it to the u/g plates, and the > > airline to the filter tube and powerhead. > > > > My only question is, is that all i need to do? (aside from plugging > the > > powerhead in to the powerpoint and flicking the switch)... > > > > How does an ug filter work? > > Pictures would also be really really helpful. > > Thanks > > > > Lisa > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 6:25:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32548	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never

OK Lenny, how many years ago did YOU have a UGF? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Sam, thanks for the compliment. The check's in the mail! ;-) But I'll have to defer your questions about Discus, Altum Angel's, etc., to some of the more experienced folks out here like \\Steve//, Ray, Harry, Donna (you shouldn't have made that 40 years typo.. lol), etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Hey everyone my name is Sam and though I have been a member for a while now I have never introduced myself to the group. Currently I have 2 29 gallon tanks and am looking into purchasing a 150 gallon tank. I know what you're thinking, that's on hell of an upgrade, right? Well anyway, my first 29 gallon has chocolate gouramis, a betta, some harlequins rasboras, some otocinclus and some algae shrimp. The second has two cuviceps cichlids, black tetras, and pencilfish, oh yeah and three guppies. The guppies were put in there to do what guppies do and that is, breed a lot to supply my fish with a regular supply of live food. I've been keeping tropical fish for almost 20 years and still love it. But, after keeping all of the standard fish that all LFS have to offer I want to step up to something a little more challenging. Hence why I have the chocolate gouramis, but I want to try altum angelfish and discus. Due to the lack of info on altum angelfish breeding I assume that most of the ones that I've seen have been wild. Now here is where the questions come in; first, which fish that I currently have will be able to survive the high temps that discus require? second, angels and discus together? I've gotten two different feedbacks one was no because the angels were too aggressive, and the second was as long as the discus were introduced first. Any advice would be appreciated. Especially Lenny he gives great advice. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 6:44:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32549	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters!

Will do right now Ray and please stay tuned!   Bill --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Good News! Bad News? Bill's Well Water Parameters! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:22 PM Bill, Take that water sample you've just drawn and place an airstone in it overnight. Doesn't need to be operated very fast. This should help off-gas any CO2. Give us another reading in the morning; it should come up. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > Folks some of you may recall that I have well water out here in PA. >   > That said, I had no idea until this morning, what the water quality was. > Here is the first post of the stats: >   > PH       5.5 > No2       .3 > Nh3/4  1.5 > GH      2.0 > KH        .trace  the test said to count the drops and I got a color change >              after only one drop. >                >   > special thanks to whoever posted that poll-------- I'll be watching.  > While I'm being brazen and asking for all this help and information maybe someone could tell me if one of these polls or something similar has also > been done for the use of Vortex Diatom Filters for aquariums.  As you can probably already tell, I'm very "old school" on the hobby so please bear with me.  I've just returned to the hobby and trying to catch up from 30 years ago to now and don't want to do anything stupid with my fish.. >   > Bill >   > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32550	From: bill1433	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

Lisa, I am no one to really give advice but on this point I do know a bit.� UG filters are NOT mechanical filters or met to take the place of one.� Without a good HOB filter you run a great chance of fouling your tank. � UG filters primarily give the GOOD bacteria more room or another place to grow and cultivate.� After a tank has cycled and been running well for a few months you will notice a very quick settling-down after a PWC.� No cloudiness just beautiful clear water.� People often thought that I had no water in the tanks because I kept the water line just above the tanks frame. Your tank will remain crystal clear and stay that way providing you take reasonable care feeding and stocking.� � But please believe me, UG�s are not met as standard filter media or a replacement for HOB power filter.� I had only UG in a 10-gallon tank of fry or neon�s but that was because the fish were tiny and to give them a chance to grow out.� When I discovered sponge-filters I never used them in fry tanks again and striped the tanks bare with no gravel and only these sponge-filters. � I hope I helped? � Bill � � --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 5:45 PM I have an UG filter because of space restrictions. The Hang on filter would be too big for the space the the tank is going to sit on�� On tuesday i am going to go back to my LFS and ask them. �� Now do i need both ...hold on... the box the filter came in says that it includes carbon cartridges. Is that what collects the debris? �� This link is similar to the ug system i have been given ��http://www.brooklan ds.co.nz/ article/113. htm �� Find your perfect match today at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating yahoo.com/ ?cid=53151& pid=1012 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32551	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog

okay. maybe it is in my imagination then. I was hoping there would be truth to that so i could use water from a pwc to help cycle a new set up ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 4:51:12 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Lenny, Your Blog What are you reading that is giving you this bad info? If any of this bad info you are reading came from my blog or a link from my blog, please let me know so I can promptly remove it or at least write a disclaimer next to the link. Nitrifying bacteria are microscopic and live on the surface areas.. mostly in the filter media since there is far more surface area in a single floss pad compared to all of the gravel... but there are also bacteria on the gravel. The siphon does not suck hard enough to remove the bacteria from the gravel. After all, they live on the surface areas of all of the fibers in a filter pads and sponges and the water rushing through the filter does not dislodge them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 2:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Lenny, Your Blog I was tired and rushed posting. I should have been more thurough. The question was really about siphoning the gravel. Did I read right that siphoning removes the established bacteria that live in the gravel? If you have a artical that explains it, please post the link, because I cannot find it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 3:51:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32552	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Has she returned from Africa? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < ivyrose@... >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is great. I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32553	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

Lisa, A sponge filter will use the same air pump that is used by your air pump. Much easier to maintain than an undergravel filter. However you still need to vacuum your gravel. The one on the link below is very similar to the brand I use. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/AQUARIUM-Fish-Biochemical-Air-Pump-SPONGE-FILTER-AQ03_W0QQitemZ130265288046QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130265288046&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 2:45 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters I have an UG filter because of space restrictions. The Hang on filter would be too big for the space the the tank is going to sit on? On tuesday i am going to go back to my LFS and ask them. ? Now do i need both ...hold on... the box the filter came in says that it includes carbon cartridges. Is that what collects the debris? ? This link is similar to the ug system i have been given ?http://www.brooklands.co.nz/article/113.htm ? Find your perfect match today at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1012 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32554	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Modify a Tank Stand?

Would you consider adding a 6 inch extension to the back of a 48 x 12 stand so it could hold a 48 x 18 tank? I am trying to match my 72" tank stand which has been discontinued. I'm getting a 75G tank. I found a 48 x 12 stand which is an exact match. It has a canopy (which I would not use). It occurred to me that a strong 6" frame attached securely to the back would be effective and not too noticeable. Also the wood from the canopy might be salvaged to cover the extra 6" on the sides. What do you think? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32555	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of a

Hi Ray, PCCA is a great club, I am very fortunate to be a member of it, I have been on the Board about two years now. Chuck while no longer on the board is a lifetime member and his input is always welcome. I often run to him for advice on the running the other dish club I am a member of. Chuck actually was around to help form the precursor to the ACA, the Advanced Cichlid Aquarists which I am told evolved into the ACA and he has lent a hand in it since then. The PCCA actually has two newsletters. The Cichlid Blues and the Cichlid Communique. We send them out on alternating months. Pam Chin used to edit the Communique but handed it over to Jim Ellenberger from Mainly Cichlids. Jim used to edit the Cichlid Blues but handed that over to "6 finger Dave" as we affectionataly call Dave Fruguglia. You may recognize Jim Ellenberger from the ACA, he used to and may still handle for all I know, the fish classifieds(Trading post?). By any chance did you make it out to the ACA in Sacramento? Our sister club the Sacramento Aquarium society was the host show. I helped out as much as I could that convention, picked up speakers in San Francisco and hauled people to restaraunts and out to Pam Chin's fish house. I did not get a lot of sleep and did not attend a lot of the talks but had a great time meeting other fish keepers from all over the country. Claudia is a really great person, her energy on the "cares" program has inspired me to broaden my horizons a bit and try and maintain some non cichlid species. I was bummed that she could not make it to this last ACA. I wanted to talk to her in person about the Cares program. I want to try and get the General aquarium society I belong to to participate in that program but we have some very difficult hurdles to address at the moment and I won't be able to bring that on the agenda for a little while. Ray, I hope to meet you in person some day. If you make it out to Northern Kalifornia let me know, and I will drag you around to the fish oriented stuff we have out here. -Mike I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 5:36 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Has she returned from Africa? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < ivyrose@... >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is great. I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32556	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: loaches

My tank water: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, nitrate barely reads since I just did a tank change yesterday, PH 6 and temp is usually 80, hard for me to keep it lower for some reason even with the heater turned all the way down, guess my house is just warm. My 10 gallon tank sits at 75 with no heater. Gh was up a little when I tested it compared to the last test I did a few days ago, but it's on test strips so who knows if it's just off because of that, but it was reading 75 ppm today. Also the KH was just barely over 0, maybe somewhere in the 5-10 range according to the test strips and that was just a little lower than what it was a few days ago. Only the hardness levels have changed in my tank and hardly any. All of my other fish are quite happy and healthy, and always hungry just like normal ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Aquarium salt will not raise your KH level. Baking Soda will. > > Give us all of your water parameters from the tank and your tap water > baseline numbers and let us know if any of them have changed much in > recent > weeks. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temp. Also GH and KH. > > Is your KH out the tap and the 48 hour baseline test near 0 dH also? > > Also test your tank water for pH first thing in the morning before turning > on the tank lights and then right before you turn off your lights in the > evening and give us both of those numbers. > > Do you have a lot of live plants? > > What were the water parameters of the place where you bought the loaches? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] loaches > > Ugh, okay so I got 2 loaches and they promptly both died in my tank > overnight. Apparently I have as much luck with them as I do the oto's. I > have done a reading on my tank and other than my softness nothing is > out of > wack. My KH barely reads on the test strip but I didn't add any aquarium > salt this last time I did a tank change yesterday. > Are loaches hard to keep alive too? I let them acclimate to the water and > also added a little of my tank water over an hour and then added them > to the > tank, they were fine until the lights went out for bedtime last night... > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 > Tested on: 11/6/2008 2:10:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32557	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Filter wEmpty Media Basket

Will it hurt a filter to run it with two of four media baskets empty? I want to start my two new XP4's on the 125G along with the existing filters so the bacteria can colonize. I have the sponges for the bottom (4th) basket and I'm putting crushed coral in the 3rd basket, but the media for basket 1 and basket 2 won't arrive until next week. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32558	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never

Never used one before. I started off with fish keeping with ponds and didn't use them and then my first aquarium starter kit came with an HOB and I've been using HOB's and canisters ever since... oh yeah.. and small air pump driven sponge/box filters. But I have seen pics and videos of what the underside of a UGF plate looks like after six months, even with gravel vacuuming. The gravel vac doesn't suck up all the mulm/detritus that gathers under the UGF plate oftentimes causing problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never OK Lenny, how many years ago did YOU have a UGF? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Sam, thanks for the compliment. The check's in the mail! ;-) But I'll have to defer your questions about Discus, Altum Angel's, etc., to some of the more experienced folks out here like \\Steve//, Ray, Harry, Donna (you shouldn't have made that 40 years typo.. lol), etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Hey everyone my name is Sam and though I have been a member for a while now I have never introduced myself to the group. Currently I have 2 29 gallon tanks and am looking into purchasing a 150 gallon tank. I know what you're thinking, that's on hell of an upgrade, right? Well anyway, my first 29 gallon has chocolate gouramis, a betta, some harlequins rasboras, some otocinclus and some algae shrimp. The second has two cuviceps cichlids, black tetras, and pencilfish, oh yeah and three guppies. The guppies were put in there to do what guppies do and that is, breed a lot to supply my fish with a regular supply of live food. I've been keeping tropical fish for almost 20 years and still love it. But, after keeping all of the standard fish that all LFS have to offer I want to step up to something a little more challenging. Hence why I have the chocolate gouramis, but I want to try altum angelfish and discus. Due to the lack of info on altum angelfish breeding I assume that most of the ones that I've seen have been wild. Now here is where the questions come in; first, which fish that I currently have will be able to survive the high temps that discus require? second, angels and discus together? I've gotten two different feedbacks one was no because the angels were too aggressive, and the second was as long as the discus were introduced first. Any advice would be appreciated. Especially Lenny he gives great advice. _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:12:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?

Can you post some pics of the stand? I'm guessing you want to add the extension to the back so the front of the stand is flush with the front of your tank??? Were you planning on using some kind of L braces with an extra 6" wide piece of wood added on top? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Modify a Tank Stand? Would you consider adding a 6 inch extension to the back of a 48 x 12 stand so it could hold a 48 x 18 tank? I am trying to match my 72" tank stand which has been discontinued. I'm getting a 75G tank. I found a 48 x 12 stand which is an exact match. It has a canopy (which I would not use). It occurred to me that a strong 6" frame attached securely to the back would be effective and not too noticeable. Also the wood from the canopy might be salvaged to cover the extra 6" on the sides. What do you think? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:14:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:27:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate

Dish club? Tell me it ain't so Joe.. oops.. I meant Mike. LOL So... what is the dish pattern of the month for November? :-)) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) P.S. - In the first paragraph, you mentioned being a member of a "dish club". LOL -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Ray, PCCA is a great club, I am very fortunate to be a member of it, I have been on the Board about two years now. Chuck while no longer on the board is a lifetime member and his input is always welcome. I often run to him for advice on the running the other dish club I am a member of. Chuck actually was around to help form the precursor to the ACA, the Advanced Cichlid Aquarists which I am told evolved into the ACA and he has lent a hand in it since then. The PCCA actually has two newsletters. The Cichlid Blues and the Cichlid Communique. We send them out on alternating months. Pam Chin used to edit the Communique but handed it over to Jim Ellenberger from Mainly Cichlids. Jim used to edit the Cichlid Blues but handed that over to "6 finger Dave" as we affectionataly call Dave Fruguglia. You may recognize Jim Ellenberger from the ACA, he used to and may still handle for all I know, the fish classifieds(Trading post?). By any chance did you make it out to the ACA in Sacramento? Our sister club the Sacramento Aquarium society was the host show. I helped out as much as I could that convention, picked up speakers in San Francisco and hauled people to restaraunts and out to Pam Chin's fish house. I did not get a lot of sleep and did not attend a lot of the talks but had a great time meeting other fish keepers from all over the country. Claudia is a really great person, her energy on the "cares" program has inspired me to broaden my horizons a bit and try and maintain some non cichlid species. I was bummed that she could not make it to this last ACA. I wanted to talk to her in person about the Cares program. I want to try and get the General aquarium society I belong to to participate in that program but we have some very difficult hurdles to address at the moment and I won't be able to bring that on the agenda for a little while. Ray, I hope to meet you in person some day. If you make it out to Northern Kalifornia let me know, and I will drag you around to the fish oriented stuff we have out here. -Mike I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 5:36 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Has she returned from Africa? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < ivyrose@... <mailto:ivyrose%40optonline.com> >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is great. I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish (such > as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi and > Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish like > the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- dwelling > fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original poster's > (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide if > they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:31:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32561	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Filter wEmpty Media Basket

No, it won't hurt it. It's actually easier on the motor since it's not having to push/pull the water through as much filter media. You could throw a handful or two of gravel from a cycled tank, into one of the sections, which will get it cycling even faster... but I'm sure you knew that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter wEmpty Media Basket Will it hurt a filter to run it with two of four media baskets empty? I want to start my two new XP4's on the 125G along with the existing filters so the bacteria can colonize. I have the sponges for the bottom (4th) basket and I'm putting crushed coral in the 3rd basket, but the media for basket 1 and basket 2 won't arrive until next week. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:14:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:33:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32562	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?

I think it will work fine. Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..> <.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: djransome@... Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 21:05:18 -0500 Subject: [AquaticLife] Modify a Tank Stand? Would you consider adding a 6 inch extension to the back of a 48 x 12 stand so it could hold a 48 x 18 tank? I am trying to match my 72" tank stand which has been discontinued. I'm getting a 75G tank. I found a 48 x 12 stand which is an exact match. It has a canopy (which I would not use). It occurred to me that a strong 6" frame attached securely to the back would be effective and not too noticeable. Also the wood from the canopy might be salvaged to cover the extra 6" on the sides. What do you think? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32563	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?

I just saw your pic. Was it you that was looking for this model stand recently? I remember doing a couple of searches to try and find this model for someone... could have been you. If so, I'm glad you found one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Modify a Tank Stand? Would you consider adding a 6 inch extension to the back of a 48 x 12 stand so it could hold a 48 x 18 tank? I am trying to match my 72" tank stand which has been discontinued. I'm getting a 75G tank. I found a 48 x 12 stand which is an exact match. It has a canopy (which I would not use). It occurred to me that a strong 6" frame attached securely to the back would be effective and not too noticeable. Also the wood from the canopy might be salvaged to cover the extra 6" on the sides. What do you think? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:14:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:56:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32564	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?

I posted it in album=Donna. It’s waiting for approval. Yes, extend the back. But not just the top I’d want a 6” rectangle the height and width of the stand (48” x 30”) bolted to the back of the existing stand somehow. I was thinking I’d mimic the frame that’s there at the 12” point, but do it again 18” back. I’ve got the 72” version mind you, but there is a .75” x 3.25” board on edge supporting the back along the length of the frame. A matching board along the bottom of the stand that rests on the floor. Then there are four vertical boards of the same dimensions screwed onto the top and bottom boards from behind. The vertical boards also support the frame of the tank and extend to the floor. But what do I know? Do you have suggestions? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Modify a Tank Stand? Can you post some pics of the stand? I'm guessing you want to add the extension to the back so the front of the stand is flush with the front of your tank??? Were you planning on using some kind of L braces with an extra 6" wide piece of wood added on top? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Modify a Tank Stand? Would you consider adding a 6 inch extension to the back of a 48 x 12 stand so it could hold a 48 x 18 tank? I am trying to match my 72" tank stand which has been discontinued. I'm getting a 75G tank. I found a 48 x 12 stand which is an exact match. It has a canopy (which I would not use). It occurred to me that a strong 6" frame attached securely to the back would be effective and not too noticeable. Also the wood from the canopy might be salvaged to cover the extra 6" on the sides. What do you think? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:14:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:27:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32565	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?

Yes. But wrong size. I’m still considering buying a new one in the right style, wrong color. But I thought I’d ask about modifying this one? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Modify a Tank Stand? I just saw your pic. Was it you that was looking for this model stand recently? I remember doing a couple of searches to try and find this model for someone... could have been you. If so, I'm glad you found one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Modify a Tank Stand? Would you consider adding a 6 inch extension to the back of a 48 x 12 stand so it could hold a 48 x 18 tank? I am trying to match my 72" tank stand which has been discontinued. I'm getting a 75G tank. I found a 48 x 12 stand which is an exact match. It has a canopy (which I would not use). It occurred to me that a strong 6" frame attached securely to the back would be effective and not too noticeable. Also the wood from the canopy might be salvaged to cover the extra 6" on the sides. What do you think? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:14:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:56:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32566	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate

Oh you know that Franklin Mint does wonders with Dishes! Got a Cichlid Dish to put in my fish room. Dish club? Tell me it ain't so Joe.. oops.. I meant Mike. LOL So... what is the dish pattern of the month for November? :-)) Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 6:31 pm Subject: RE: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Dish club? Tell me it ain't so Joe.. oops.. I meant Mike. LOL So... what is the dish pattern of the month for November? :-)) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) P.S. - In the first paragraph, you mentioned being a member of a "dish club". LOL -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Ray, PCCA is a great club, I am very fortunate to be a member of it, I have been on the Board about two years now. Chuck while no longer on the board is a lifetime member and his input is always welcome. I often run to him for advice on the running the other dish club I am a member of. Chuck actually was around to help form the precursor to the ACA, the Advanced Cichlid Aquarists which I am told evolved into the ACA and he has lent a hand in it since then. The PCCA actually has two newsletters. The Cichlid Blues and the Cichlid Communique. We send them out on alternating months. Pam Chin used to edit the Communique but handed it over to Jim Ellenberger from Mainly Cichlids. Jim used to edit the Cichlid Blues but handed that over to "6 finger Dave" as we affectionataly call Dave Fruguglia. You may recognize Jim Ellenberger from the ACA, he used to and may still handle for all I know, the fish classifieds(Trading post?). By any chance did you make it out to the ACA in Sacramento? Our sister club the Sacramento Aquarium society was the host show. I helped out as much as I could that convention, picked up speakers in San Francisco and hauled people to restaraunts and out to Pam Chin's fish house. I did not get a lot of sleep and did not attend a lot of the talks but had a great time meeting other fish keepers from all over the country. Claudia is a really great person, her energy on the "cares" program has inspired me to broaden my horizons a bit and try and maintain some non cichlid species. I was bummed that she could not make it to this last ACA. I wanted to talk to her in person about the Cares program. I want to try and get the General aquarium society I belong to to participate in that program but we have some very difficult hurdles to address at the moment and I won't be able to bring that on the agenda for a little while. Ray, I hope to meet you in person some day. If you make it out to Northern Kalifornia let me know, and I will drag you around to the fish oriented stuff we have out here. -Mike I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 5:36 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Has she returned from Africa? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < ivyrose@... <mailto:ivyrose%40optonline.com> >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is great. I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish (such > as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi and > Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish like > the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- dwelling > fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original poster's > (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide if > they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:31:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32567	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate

Pigeon Blood Discus. The delicate shades of red and blue are well represented on these dishes. The full plate discus is lovingly hand applied and touched up to maintain its true to life qualities. All dinner plates have full size adult discus applied, while the smaller saucers, bread plates, dessert plates, etc. have various juvenile sizes applied. Larger pieces have hand applied scenes from discus family life, precious one and all. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Dish club? Tell me it ain't so Joe.. oops.. I meant Mike. LOL So... what is the dish pattern of the month for November? :-)) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) P.S. - In the first paragraph, you mentioned being a member of a "dish club". LOL -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Ray, PCCA is a great club, I am very fortunate to be a member of it, I have been on the Board about two years now. Chuck while no longer on the board is a lifetime member and his input is always welcome. I often run to him for advice on the running the other dish club I am a member of. Chuck actually was around to help form the precursor to the ACA, the Advanced Cichlid Aquarists which I am told evolved into the ACA and he has lent a hand in it since then. The PCCA actually has two newsletters. The Cichlid Blues and the Cichlid Communique. We send them out on alternating months. Pam Chin used to edit the Communique but handed it over to Jim Ellenberger from Mainly Cichlids. Jim used to edit the Cichlid Blues but handed that over to "6 finger Dave" as we affectionataly call Dave Fruguglia. You may recognize Jim Ellenberger from the ACA, he used to and may still handle for all I know, the fish classifieds(Trading post?). By any chance did you make it out to the ACA in Sacramento? Our sister club the Sacramento Aquarium society was the host show. I helped out as much as I could that convention, picked up speakers in San Francisco and hauled people to restaraunts and out to Pam Chin's fish house. I did not get a lot of sleep and did not attend a lot of the talks but had a great time meeting other fish keepers from all over the country. Claudia is a really great person, her energy on the "cares" program has inspired me to broaden my horizons a bit and try and maintain some non cichlid species. I was bummed that she could not make it to this last ACA. I wanted to talk to her in person about the Cares program. I want to try and get the General aquarium society I belong to to participate in that program but we have some very difficult hurdles to address at the moment and I won't be able to bring that on the agenda for a little while. Ray, I hope to meet you in person some day. If you make it out to Northern Kalifornia let me know, and I will drag you around to the fish oriented stuff we have out here. -Mike I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 5:36 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Has she returned from Africa? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < ivyrose@... <mailto:ivyrose%40optonline.com> >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is great. I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish (such > as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi and > Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish like > the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- dwelling > fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original poster's > (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide if > they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32568	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

When I move into my own house, i am goig to buy a hob filter and a cabnet unit for the aquarium to sit on. the ug is going to have to do the job for the short term.     Lisa   Find your perfect match today at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1012 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32569	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Might I suggest that if a respondent is going to go off topic, he/she should start another thread.  There are folks who will miss your messages if they're posted under my OP. Thanks to everyone who replied specifically to my OP.  You've been very helpful. Shirley --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:36 PM Has she returned from Africa? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < ivyrose@optonline. com >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is great. I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32570	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Thank you Shirley. You may note we did add "Fish clubs etc" to the front of the topic on some replies today. To signify the topic had veered off it's original topic. FWIW it's worth I did make a few posts on the subject of dither fish. Have you tried it yet? -Mike Might I suggest that if a respondent is going to go off topic, he/she should start another thread.  There are folks who will miss your messages if they're posted under my OP. Thanks to everyone who replied specifically to my OP.  You've been very helpful. Shirley -----Original Message----- From: Shirley Reichard <shrlycat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 7:17 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Might I suggest that if a respondent is going to go off topic, he/she should start another thread.  There are folks who will miss your messages if they're posted under my OP. Thanks to everyone who replied specifically to my OP.  You've been very helpful. Shirley --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:36 PM Has she returned from Africa? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < ivyrose@optonline. com >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is great. I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32571	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?

I'm sure I could do it... but I'm not there. LOL I was thinking about that you could use the back panel from the canopy to make the two vertical sides to make the sides 18". And the back stand top trim (around the base of the tank) and miter cut that to fit on the 12" sides of the top trim (around the base of the tank) to extend those back to 18" also. You might still have enough back of the canopy to extend the sides of the canopy back 18" also. If you or a family member is pretty good with wood-working, I think you could make that stand "look" like a 48" x 18" footprint stand. At least the hardware to support the back 6" of tank will be hidden if all the trim work is done well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Modify a Tank Stand? I posted it in album=Donna. It’s waiting for approval. Yes, extend the back. But not just the top I’d want a 6” rectangle the height and width of the stand (48” x 30”) bolted to the back of the existing stand somehow. I was thinking I’d mimic the frame that’s there at the 12” point, but do it again 18” back. I’ve got the 72” version mind you, but there is a .75” x 3.25” board on edge supporting the back along the length of the frame. A matching board along the bottom of the stand that rests on the floor. Then there are four vertical boards of the same dimensions screwed onto the top and bottom boards from behind. The vertical boards also support the frame of the tank and extend to the floor. But what do I know? Do you have suggestions? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Modify a Tank Stand? Can you post some pics of the stand? I'm guessing you want to add the extension to the back so the front of the stand is flush with the front of your tank??? Were you planning on using some kind of L braces with an extra 6" wide piece of wood added on top? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Modify a Tank Stand? Would you consider adding a 6 inch extension to the back of a 48 x 12 stand so it could hold a 48 x 18 tank? I am trying to match my 72" tank stand which has been discontinued. I'm getting a 75G tank. I found a 48 x 12 stand which is an exact match. It has a canopy (which I would not use). It occurred to me that a strong 6" frame attached securely to the back would be effective and not too noticeable. Also the wood from the canopy might be salvaged to cover the extra 6" on the sides. What do you think? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:14:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:27:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 9:05:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 9:35:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32572	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate

LOL.. I think \\Steve's// been watching too much Homo Shopping Network.... oops.. I meant Home Shopping Network.. dang typo's. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Pigeon Blood Discus. The delicate shades of red and blue are well represented on these dishes. The full plate discus is lovingly hand applied and touched up to maintain its true to life qualities. All dinner plates have full size adult discus applied, while the smaller saucers, bread plates, dessert plates, etc. have various juvenile sizes applied. Larger pieces have hand applied scenes from discus family life, precious one and all. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Dish club? Tell me it ain't so Joe.. oops.. I meant Mike. LOL So... what is the dish pattern of the month for November? :-)) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) P.S. - In the first paragraph, you mentioned being a member of a "dish club". LOL -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Fish clubs etc. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Ray, PCCA is a great club, I am very fortunate to be a member of it, I have been on the Board about two years now. Chuck while no longer on the board is a lifetime member and his input is always welcome. I often run to him for advice on the running the other dish club I am a member of. Chuck actually was around to help form the precursor to the ACA, the Advanced Cichlid Aquarists which I am told evolved into the ACA and he has lent a hand in it since then. The PCCA actually has two newsletters. The Cichlid Blues and the Cichlid Communique. We send them out on alternating months. Pam Chin used to edit the Communique but handed it over to Jim Ellenberger from Mainly Cichlids. Jim used to edit the Cichlid Blues but handed that over to "6 finger Dave" as we affectionataly call Dave Fruguglia. You may recognize Jim Ellenberger from the ACA, he used to and may still handle for all I know, the fish classifieds(Trading post?). By any chance did you make it out to the ACA in Sacramento? Our sister club the Sacramento Aquarium society was the host show. I helped out as much as I could that convention, picked up speakers in San Francisco and hauled people to restaraunts and out to Pam Chin's fish house. I did not get a lot of sleep and did not attend a lot of the talks but had a great time meeting other fish keepers from all over the country. Claudia is a really great person, her energy on the "cares" program has inspired me to broaden my horizons a bit and try and maintain some non cichlid species. I was bummed that she could not make it to this last ACA. I wanted to talk to her in person about the Cares program. I want to try and get the General aquarium society I belong to to participate in that program but we have some very difficult hurdles to address at the moment and I won't be able to bring that on the agenda for a little while. Ray, I hope to meet you in person some day. If you make it out to Northern Kalifornia let me know, and I will drag you around to the fish oriented stuff we have out here. -Mike I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 5:36 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Has she returned from Africa? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < ivyrose@... <mailto:ivyrose%40optonline.com> <mailto:ivyrose%40optonline.com> >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is great. I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish (such > as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi and > Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish like > the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- dwelling > fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original poster's > (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide if > they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 9:15:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 9:38:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: UG filters

That's good. Just make sure you vacuum your gravel really good since the UGF you have will not provide any kind of mechanical filtration. To other UGF users out there... didn't UGF's use to have a box at the top of the uplift tube, where the water and some detritus would overflow out of the uplift tube and then flow through some filter floss or a sponge in that box before going back into the water column? I haven't shopped or even looked at UGF's at the stores in the past 10 years but I thought a friend had the kind I'm describing above. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: UG filters When I move into my own house, i am goig to buy a hob filter and a cabnet unit for the aquarium to sit on. the ug is going to have to do the job for the short term. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 9:43:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

UH Oh... I'm off to my corner now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Might I suggest that if a respondent is going to go off topic, he/she should start another thread. There are folks who will miss your messages if they're posted under my OP. Thanks to everyone who replied specifically to my OP. You've been very helpful. Shirley --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:36 PM Has she returned from Africa? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < ivyrose@optonline. com >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is great. I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the ground and its just good to see how far its gone. I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 9:25:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 9:44:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32575	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never

Lenny, How big did your sauropods get in the pond? Were you able to breed your coelecanths? -Mike Never used one before. I started off with fish keeping with ponds and didn't use them and then my first aquarium starter kit came with an HOB and -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 6:12 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Never used one before. I started off with fish keeping with ponds and didn't use them and then my first aquarium starter kit came with an HOB and I've been using HOB's and canisters ever since... oh yeah.. and small air pump driven sponge/box filters. But I have seen pics and videos of what the underside of a UGF plate looks like after six months, even with gravel vacuuming. The gravel vac doesn't suck up all the mulm/detritus that gathers under the UGF plate oftentimes causing problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never OK Lenny, how many years ago did YOU have a UGF? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Sam, thanks for the compliment. The check's in the mail! ;-) But I'll have to defer your questions about Discus, Altum Angel's, etc., to some of the more experienced folks out here like \\Steve//, Ray, Harry, Donna (you shouldn't have made that 40 years typo.. lol), etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Hey everyone my name is Sam and though I have been a member for a while now I have never introduced myself to the group. Currently I have 2 29 gallon tanks and am looking into purchasing a 150 gallon tank. I know what you're thinking, that's on hell of an upgrade, right? Well anyway, my first 29 gallon has chocolate gouramis, a betta, some harlequins rasboras, some otocinclus and some algae shrimp. The second has two cuviceps cichlids, black tetras, and pencilfish, oh yeah and three guppies. The guppies were put in there to do what guppies do and that is, breed a lot to supply my fish with a regular supply of live food. I've been keeping tropical fish for almost 20 years and still love it. But, after keeping all of the standard fish that all LFS have to offer I want to step up to something a little more challenging. Hence why I have the chocolate gouramis, but I want to try altum angelfish and discus. Due to the lack of info on altum angelfish breeding I assume that most of the ones that I've seen have been wild. Now here is where the questions come in; first, which fish that I currently have will be able to survive the high temps that discus require? second, angels and discus together? I've gotten two different feedbacks one was no because the angels were too aggressive, and the second was as long as the discus were introduced first. Any advice would be appreciated. Especially Lenny he gives great advice. _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:12:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32576	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never

I never had any sauropods but I do still have a short video of my coelacanths cruising around my BIG pond. I have it hosted here... http://www.dinofish.com/SWIM.HTM As far as breeding.. I couldn't stop them. They were like pond-rabbits. It took me quite a while to dig their pond... especially with N'Awlins being built on top of swamps. I kept hitting the water table at 20' deep but eventually got down to the 300' mark. The storks sure got a surprise when they'd land in that pond to do a little fishing and soon became a snack. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Lenny, How big did your sauropods get in the pond? Were you able to breed your coelecanths? -Mike Never used one before. I started off with fish keeping with ponds and didn't use them and then my first aquarium starter kit came with an HOB and -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 6:12 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Never used one before. I started off with fish keeping with ponds and didn't use them and then my first aquarium starter kit came with an HOB and I've been using HOB's and canisters ever since... oh yeah.. and small air pump driven sponge/box filters. But I have seen pics and videos of what the underside of a UGF plate looks like after six months, even with gravel vacuuming. The gravel vac doesn't suck up all the mulm/detritus that gathers under the UGF plate oftentimes causing problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never OK Lenny, how many years ago did YOU have a UGF? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Sam, thanks for the compliment. The check's in the mail! ;-) But I'll have to defer your questions about Discus, Altum Angel's, etc., to some of the more experienced folks out here like \\Steve//, Ray, Harry, Donna (you shouldn't have made that 40 years typo.. lol), etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Better Late than Never Hey everyone my name is Sam and though I have been a member for a while now I have never introduced myself to the group. Currently I have 2 29 gallon tanks and am looking into purchasing a 150 gallon tank. I know what you're thinking, that's on hell of an upgrade, right? Well anyway, my first 29 gallon has chocolate gouramis, a betta, some harlequins rasboras, some otocinclus and some algae shrimp. The second has two cuviceps cichlids, black tetras, and pencilfish, oh yeah and three guppies. The guppies were put in there to do what guppies do and that is, breed a lot to supply my fish with a regular supply of live food. I've been keeping tropical fish for almost 20 years and still love it. But, after keeping all of the standard fish that all LFS have to offer I want to step up to something a little more challenging. Hence why I have the chocolate gouramis, but I want to try altum angelfish and discus. Due to the lack of info on altum angelfish breeding I assume that most of the ones that I've seen have been wild. Now here is where the questions come in; first, which fish that I currently have will be able to survive the high temps that discus require? second, angels and discus together? I've gotten two different feedbacks one was no because the angels were too aggressive, and the second was as long as the discus were introduced first. Any advice would be appreciated. Especially Lenny he gives great advice. _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:12:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 10:47:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 11:05:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32577	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Claudia, was: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remo

I don't believe so. I recall she is to get back later this month, but I don't know when. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Has she returned from Africa? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your > Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < > ivyrose@... >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure > she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific > worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. > > Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed > fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks > for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and > has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know > him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a > talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to > earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is > great. > > I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite > knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA > members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this > continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball > from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the > ground and its just good to see how far its gone. > > I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast > Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. > Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your > club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid > Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I > always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go > unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a > wealth of information! > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > > and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish > > like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > As > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > dwell > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > but > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > to > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > > to, > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > just > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > varied > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > like > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > are > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > > at > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > > are > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > attempt > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > > it'll > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > hide > > > or is > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > > eggs or > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > good > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > produce > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > survive, > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > > tree > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > > shelter > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > that > > > over. > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32578	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?

I don't see why it wouldn't be doable, using "L" brackets as one way to construct it and attach it to the existing stand. I've made similar add-ons like this before, although not on tank stands. The main thing is to have the new piece as even as possible (in height) to the top of the stand -- this is where all the tank weight will be supported. I would suggest a 48" x 18" (or 49" x 19") piece of 3/4" plywood between the finished stand and the tank to take up any unevenness. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Would you consider adding a 6 inch extension to the back of a 48 x 12 stand > so it could hold a 48 x 18 tank? > > I am trying to match my 72" tank stand which has been discontinued. I'm > getting a 75G tank. > > I found a 48 x 12 stand which is an exact match. It has a canopy I don't see(which I > would not use). It occurred to me that a strong 6" frame attached securely > to the back would be effective and not too noticeable. Also the wood from > the canopy might be salvaged to cover the extra 6" on the sides. > > What do you think? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32579	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Fish clubs etc.

Hi Mike, Sure looks like its a great club. Wasn't aware you're a Board member (McL?). Yes, I've spoken to Jim Ellenberger a few times over the phone. You're right, he used to handle the TP for ACA; nice guy. Could have fooled me with Chuck being one to help form the precursor to the ACA (American Cichlid Association), that went by the same initials (Advanced Cichlid Activists). If so, he must not have followed through in his endeavors. I don't recall Guy Jordan or Dick Stratton ever bringing up his name (I'm a charter member), nor can I find him on any of the early membership rosters. The first mention I see of him was as the Nominating Committee Chairman from 1988 to 1991, then his name fades again into obscurity for a while until further into the '90's. I noticed Jim recently being on the BOD of the PCCA also. Is he still serving on the Board? No, I didn't get out to Sacramento for that convention. I do enjoy them though. They're a lot of work and sometimes you don't get to attend as many talks as you'd like if you're hosting it, and while they can sure keep you busy, they're a lot of fun. We hosted the ACA in 1991 (and a few times before that). It was hectic, but I got a chance to sit down and have a nice long talk with Dick again. So glad I did now, now that he's gone. Always good to see familiar faces. Yeah, Claudia is tops; oh while I think of it, just wanted to mention I made an error in her address; her email is < Ivyrose@... > (NOT, ".com"). Hope to get to see you sometime too; maybe at one of these conventions. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Hi Ray, > > > > PCCA is a great club, I am very fortunate to be a member of it, I have been on the Board about two years now. Chuck while no longer on the board is a lifetime member and his input is always welcome. I often run to him for advice on the running the other dish club I am a member of. Chuck actually was around to help form the precursor to the ACA, the Advanced Cichlid Aquarists which I am told evolved into the ACA and he has lent a hand in it since then. > > The PCCA actually has two newsletters. The Cichlid Blues and the Cichlid Communique. We send them out on alternating months. Pam Chin used to edit the Communique but handed it over to Jim Ellenberger from Mainly Cichlids. Jim used to edit the Cichlid Blues but handed that over to "6 finger Dave" as we affectionataly call Dave Fruguglia. You may recognize Jim Ellenberger from the ACA, he used to and may still handle for all I know, the fish classifieds(Trading post?). > > By any chance did you make it out to the ACA in Sacramento? Our sister club the Sacramento Aquarium society was the host show. I helped out as much as I could that convention, picked up speakers in San Francisco and hauled people to restaraunts and out to Pam Chin's fish house. I did not get a lot of sleep and did not attend a lot of the talks but had a great time meeting other fish keepers from all over the country. > > Claudia is a really a great person, her energy on the "cares" program has inspired me to broaden my horizons a bit and try and maintain some non cichlid species. I was bummed that she could not make it to this last ACA. I wanted to talk to her in person about the Cares program. I want to try and get the General aquarium society I belong to to participate in that program but we have some very difficult hurdles to address at the moment and I won't be able to bring that on the agenda for a little while. > > Ray, I hope to meet you in person some day. If you make it out to Northern Kalifornia let me know, and I will drag you around to the fish oriented stuff we have out here. > > -Mike > > > > > I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite > knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA > members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this > continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball > from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the > ground and its just good to see how far its gone. > > I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast > Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. > Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your > club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid > Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I > always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go > unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 5:36 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > Has she returned from Africa? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your > Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < > ivyrose@... >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure > she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific > worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. > > Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed > fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks > for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and > has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know > him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a > talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to > earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is > great. > > I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite > knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA > members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this > continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball > from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the > ground and its just good to see how far its gone. > > I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast > Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. > Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your > club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid > Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I > always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go > unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a > wealth of information! > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > > and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish > > like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > As > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > dwell > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > but > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > to > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > > to, > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > just > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > varied > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > like > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > are > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > > at > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > > are > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > attempt > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > > it'll > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > hide > > > or is > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > > eggs or > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > good > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > produce > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > survive, > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > > tree > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > > shelter > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > that > > > over. > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32580	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 11/6/2008
Subject: Re: Modify a Tank Stand?

With a 6" overhang in the back the balance would be centered to the rear. I would place two upright legs for stability. Grey ·´¯`·.¸¸.>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..> <.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: sevenspringss@... Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 05:51:47 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Modify a Tank Stand? I don't see why it wouldn't be doable, using "L" brackets as one way to construct it and attach it to the existing stand. I've made similar add-ons like this before, although not on tank stands. The main thing is to have the new piece as even as possible (in height) to the top of the stand -- this is where all the tank weight will be supported. I would suggest a 48" x 18" (or 49" x 19") piece of 3/4" plywood between the finished stand and the tank to take up any unevenness. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Would you consider adding a 6 inch extension to the back of a 48 x 12 stand > so it could hold a 48 x 18 tank? > > I am trying to match my 72" tank stand which has been discontinued. I'm > getting a 75G tank. > > I found a 48 x 12 stand which is an exact match. It has a canopy I don't see(which I > would not use). It occurred to me that a strong 6" frame attached securely > to the back would be effective and not too noticeable. Also the wood from > the canopy might be salvaged to cover the extra 6" on the sides. > > What do you think? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32581	From: devillookslikeanangel	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Update On Bruce

Bruce may be going to a new home......keep your fingers crossed. He may be headed to another Fish Store that is better equiped to house him. Bigger tanks that is. Hopefully all will work out and I will know by the time I get back from my trip. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32582	From: bill1433	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Baseline-----------Day 2

Here�s today's numbers for day #2 Baseline for well water. � PH������ 6.0 No2������ .3 Nh3/4� 1.0 GH����� 3.0 KH������� .trace� the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop. � Summary:�� Ph came up from 5.5, Ammonia dropped to 1.0 from 1.5 and the General Hardness came up 3 from yesterdays 2 KH remained the same.� Continuing with air line. � Now in doing this so far I was amazed to find that the 4-gallon aquarium is just about the same!� Since I seem to be trapped in a High Acid Ph situation my question now is how to bring the aquarium up at around 6.5. � Yes, I know about soda but for this small of a tank the amount could be very critical.� WE want to get where we need to go but I don�t want to kill anything in the process.� How much and when, must be considered. � Advise or Comments please, � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2

Use the information and calculator on this page http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp Since you are dealing with such a small aquarium, you'll need your smaller measuring scoops. I just did a test calculation on 4G raised to 2 dH and the dosage is only 0.15 teaspoon... which is about 1/7th of a teaspoon so maybe doing doses of 1/8th of a teaspoon in a cup of water and pour 1/2 in, wait a couple of hours and then pour the other 1/2 in. Repeat the next day. That should bring the KH up to 4 dH and your pH up to 6.5 to 6.6 NOTE this statement below the pH Change Calculator... "...if your starting KH is 40 (40ppm = apx. 2.2 dH) and you take it up to 80 (80ppm = apx. 4.5 dH) you should see log(80/40) = .3 increase in pH." In your case, since your starting KH is negligible, if you bring it up to 2 dH or apx. 36ppm, you will raise your pH by 0.3 which is the most you would want to do in a day and then I would do the Baking Soda dosing in two 1/2 doses a couple of hours apart, as I stated above.. Then the next day, raise the KH another 36ppm (2.2 dH) to 72ppm (to 4.5 dH) with two more 1/2 doses (the same sized doses as the previous day). That should bring you pH up to the 6.5 pH range and your KH would be around 3-4 dH. If at any point during this increase, you see your fish acting stressed, do a 25% PWC to lower the KH and pH so have a couple of gallons of replacement water at the right temperature, on standby. When you say the 4G aquarium had similar parameters, I'm presuming you were not getting an ammonia or nitrite reading in the 4G... right? If you are, then something isn't right. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:47 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 Here¢s today's numbers for day #2 Baseline for well water. PH 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 1.0 GH 3.0 KH .trace the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop. Summary: Ph came up from 5.5, Ammonia dropped to 1.0 from 1.5 and the General Hardness came up 3 from yesterdays 2 KH remained the same. Continuing with air line. Now in doing this so far I was amazed to find that the 4-gallon aquarium is just about the same! Since I seem to be trapped in a High Acid Ph situation my question now is how to bring the aquarium up at around 6.5. Yes, I know about soda but for this small of a tank the amount could be very critical. WE want to get where we need to go but I don¢t want to kill anything in the process. How much and when, must be considered. Advise or Comments please, Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 11:39:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32584	From: Alina	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Carbon

Hi, Following up on my filter media issues: So whether I do the appropriate surgery to my filter cartridge/media and add carbon or if I use a media bag and add it that way, how much carbon is too much carbon (sounds like a bad jingle)? FYI, my filter cartridges have very little carbon inside, I noticed. I have a 38 gal, not overstocked at all, in fact, understocked. Parameters are all good, temp now in the 78 range, but in warmer months it's around 80. I use an Aquaeon 30 filter. And may I add, Hurray for Bruce! Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32585	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Carbon

I think the tune... "If You Knew Susie" (Like I Know Susie) (sung by Dean Martin) http://www.metrolyrics.com/if-you-knew-susie-lyrics-dean-martin.html would be good background music for "How Much Carbon" (Is Too Much Carbon).. LOL I want credits if you re-write the rest of the song. LOL The reason your current filter cartridges have very little carbon is that the filter people want you to throw it away ever few weeks so you'll constantly be buying filter cartridges from them (and inadvertently and unknowingly putting your tank into a mini-cycle each time.. but they conveniently forget to tell you that part). If you are going to run carbon, then you can add as little or as much as you need. Usually the product you buy will have instructions. I just peeked at my quart sized box of API Brand (from about 10 years ago.. lol) and it says 1/2 cup per 10G of water... but I think it would depend on the brand and how long you were going to run it in the filter. That 1/2 cup per 10G is for lasting a month between changing. If I was going to use it for removing meds, I'd probably use 1/2 that amount for a week or two. And.. since I'm in the song parody mode, here's the theme song for "Big Bruce" (which is already a parody of "Big Bad John").. LOL Someone else can re-write it for "Big Bruce, Bruce The Eel". http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/b/bigbruce.shtml I didn't realize it since I hadn't heard this song in years but it actually references New Orleans in the song. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon Hi, Following up on my filter media issues: So whether I do the appropriate surgery to my filter cartridge/media and add carbon or if I use a media bag and add it that way, how much carbon is too much carbon (sounds like a bad jingle)? FYI, my filter cartridges have very little carbon inside, I noticed. I have a 38 gal, not overstocked at all, in fact, understocked. Parameters are all good, temp now in the 78 range, but in warmer months it's around 80. I use an Aquaeon 30 filter. And may I add, Hurray for Bruce! Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 12:03:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32586	From: bill1433	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2

I�m going way out on a limb here from my old days in the hobby and pre-suppose that most LFS have their waters around neutral. � Is that still correct?� Now don�t yell!� Remember, I didn�t have the test kit before so I don�t know what my local (Wally-World) water parameter�s are but living in town years ago, they were always about 6.5 to 7.0. � Why I am asking this now is to establish a base for myself to a good working Ph level that I can both establish as well as maintain and up Ph as necessary in my PWC after tank PH levels are established and maintained.� The same as you do in your 65. � Also from your mail passed, you mentioned plants.� I�ve never had a live plant in my life (considering them yet another living thing to try to keep alive and hence worrying about dying) but I remember most of them do pretty well in slightly acid waters and lots of light (type of fluorescent tube).� They use to make special tubes to grow out plants but I can�t remember what they are now.� I do know that distance away from light or depth of the tank itself is extremely important.� Power or lumens of the light between a 20-gallon tank at 13� deep against a similar tank that is 24� deep, lights need to be more powerful.� Correct?� Just speculating here.� Lots of cob-webs in the brain housing assembly.� Why this conversation now?� From the comments and sounds of the mail about UG filters, Bill finally may be considering an Aquarium without them!� I just can�t picture in my minds eye an aquarium without those big plastic tubes in its corners! � Bill --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 12:39 PM Use the information and calculator on this page http://dataguru. org/misc/ aquarium/ calKH.asp Since you are dealing with such a small aquarium, you'll need your smaller measuring scoops. I just did a test calculation on 4G raised to 2 dH and the dosage is only 0.15 teaspoon... which is about 1/7th of a teaspoon so maybe doing doses of 1/8th of a teaspoon in a cup of water and pour 1/2 in, wait a couple of hours and then pour the other 1/2 in. Repeat the next day. That should bring the KH up to 4 dH and your pH up to 6.5 to 6.6 NOTE this statement below the pH Change Calculator.. . "...if your starting KH is 40 (40ppm = apx. 2.2 dH) and you take it up to 80 (80ppm = apx. 4..5 dH) you should see log(80/40) = .3 increase in pH." In your case, since your starting KH is negligible, if you bring it up to 2 dH or apx. 36ppm, you will raise your pH by 0.3 which is the most you would want to do in a day and then I would do the Baking Soda dosing in two 1/2 doses a couple of hours apart, as I stated above.. Then the next day, raise the KH another 36ppm (2.2 dH) to 72ppm (to 4.5 dH) with two more 1/2 doses (the same sized doses as the previous day). That should bring you pH up to the 6.5 pH range and your KH would be around 3-4 dH. If at any point during this increase, you see your fish acting stressed, do a 25% PWC to lower the KH and pH so have a couple of gallons of replacement water at the right temperature, on standby. When you say the 4G aquarium had similar parameters, I'm presuming you were not getting an ammonia or nitrite reading in the 4G... right? If you are, then something isn't right. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:47 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Baseline---- -------Day 2 Here�s today's numbers for day #2 Baseline for well water. PH 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 1.0 GH 3.0 KH .trace the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop. Summary: Ph came up from 5.5, Ammonia dropped to 1.0 from 1.5 and the General Hardness came up 3 from yesterdays 2 KH remained the same. Continuing with air line. Now in doing this so far I was amazed to find that the 4-gallon aquarium is just about the same! Since I seem to be trapped in a High Acid Ph situation my question now is how to bring the aquarium up at around 6.5. Yes, I know about soda but for this small of a tank the amount could be very critical. WE want to get where we need to go but I don�t want to kill anything in the process. How much and when, must be considered. Advise or Comments please, Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 11:39:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32587	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2

-----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 8:47 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 Here¢s today's numbers for day #2 Baseline for well water.   PH       6.0 No2       .3 Nh3/4  1.0 GH      3.0 KH        .trace  the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop.   Summary:   Ph came up from 5.5, Ammonia dropped to 1.0 from 1.5 and the General Hardness came up 3 from yesterdays 2 KH remained the same.  Continuing with air line.   Now in doing this so far I was amazed to find that the 4-gallon aquarium is just about the same!  Since I seem to be trapped in a High Acid Ph situation my question now is how to bring the aquarium up at around 6.5.   Yes, I know about soda but for this small of a tank the amount could be very critical.  WE want to get where we need to go but I don¢t want to kill anything in the process.  How much and when, must be considered.   Advise or Comments please,   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32588	From: Chris	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog

then it isn't a bad idea to siphon all the gravel when siphoning the tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32589	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2

Mike, I didn't see any reply typed. Did you hit send too soon??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 8:47 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 Here¢s today's numbers for day #2 Baseline for well water. PH 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 1.0 GH 3.0 KH .trace the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop. Summary: Ph came up from 5.5, Ammonia dropped to 1.0 from 1.5 and the General Hardness came up 3 from yesterdays 2 KH remained the same. Continuing with air line. Now in doing this so far I was amazed to find that the 4-gallon aquarium is just about the same! Since I seem to be trapped in a High Acid Ph situation my question now is how to bring the aquarium up at around 6.5. Yes, I know about soda but for this small of a tank the amount could be very critical. WE want to get where we need to go but I don¢t want to kill anything in the process. How much and when, must be considered. Advise or Comments please, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 12:48:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32590	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog

Not IMO. I know you'll often see references to only vacuuming no more than 1/2 the tank at a time. Some of this is due to the old style UGF's where the gravel was the biological filter media so they didn't want to disrupt the media too much at one time (just like we don't want to mess with our filter media too much when cleaning it) but now with HOB's/Canisters, the overwhelming majority of the nitrifying bacteria live in the filter media of those systems which is why we take precautions when cleaning our filters in HOB's/Canisters. The other reason you may only be able to vacuum a smaller section of the gravel is that to do it deep and get the deep detritus out, you may not be able to do an entire tank bottom with only a 25% PWC. I think the 25% mark would be more of a deterrence to being able to complete the job so many people write to only clean half the tank at a time so you can do a better job. Then the next week, do the other half. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Lenny, Your Blog then it isn't a bad idea to siphon all the gravel when siphoning the tank? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 12:59:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32591	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2

Worse :) I thought I was approving a message and hit reply. New routine tomorrow. 1. Wake up 2. Drink coffee 3. Read email. Never in reverse order. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:48 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 Mike, I didn't see any reply typed. Did you hit send too soon??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 8:47 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 Here¢s today's numbers for day #2 Baseline for well water. PH 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 1.0 GH 3.0 KH .trace the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop. Summary: Ph came up from 5.5, Ammonia dropped to 1.0 from 1.5 and the General Hardness came up 3 from yesterdays 2 KH remained the same. Continuing with air line. Now in doing this so far I was amazed to find that the 4-gallon aquarium is just about the same! Since I seem to be trapped in a High Acid Ph situation my question now is how to bring the aquarium up at around 6.5. Yes, I know about soda but for this small of a tank the amount could be very critical. WE want to get where we need to go but I don¢t want to kill anything in the process. How much and when, must be considered. Advise or Comments please, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 12:48:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32592	From: bill1433	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: I may have leave this group!

Why?� Running out of room! � I just sent a reply to Mike�s message and the coding to get it sent was longer than the mail message!----------I was running out of paper! � What�s up with that?� I know, I know to control spammer�s but if they have to read something that long I doubt if you�ll have much problem with them.� � I�m developing �eye strain� just trying to De-Code! � Ain�t this going back to the Dick Tracy days? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32593	From: bill1433	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2

Mike,   Something that has helped me?   #2 Drink Coffee?  No quick moves until you start 2nd cup!   Works for me,   Bill --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 2:11 PM Worse :) I thought I was approving a message and hit reply. New routine tomorrow. 1. Wake up 2. Drink coffee 3. Read email. Never in reverse order. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:48 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Baseline---- -------Day 2 Mike, I didn't see any reply typed. Did you hit send too soon??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. com Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:22 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Baseline---- -------Day 2 -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 8:47 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Baseline---- -------Day 2 Here¢s today's numbers for day #2 Baseline for well water. PH 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 1.0 GH 3.0 KH .trace the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop. Summary: Ph came up from 5.5, Ammonia dropped to 1.0 from 1.5 and the General Hardness came up 3 from yesterdays 2 KH remained the same. Continuing with air line. Now in doing this so far I was amazed to find that the 4-gallon aquarium is just about the same! Since I seem to be trapped in a High Acid Ph situation my question now is how to bring the aquarium up at around 6.5. Yes, I know about soda but for this small of a tank the amount could be very critical. WE want to get where we need to go but I don¢t want to kill anything in the process. How much and when, must be considered. Advise or Comments please, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 12:48:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: I may have leave this group!

Tell me you're not printing each message? You can make the print on the webpage larger by holding down the control key (Ctrl) and then use your mouse wheel to make type larger or smaller. This also works on most, if not all I.E. Windows and MS applications like Outlook, Outlook Express, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] I may have leave this group! Why? Running out of room! I just sent a reply to Mike's message and the coding to get it sent was longer than the mail message!----------I was running out of paper! What's up with that? I know, I know to control spammer's but if they have to read something that long I doubt if you'll have much problem with them. I'm developing "eye strain" just trying to De-Code! Ain't this going back to the Dick Tracy days? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 2:54:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Baseline-----------Day 2

If you've had a chance to read my "Planted Tank.. " blog, you'll see I reference two links to Easy and Very Easy plants. Those are the kinds I stick with since they also do well in limited lighting (1 watt per gallon or so) and they do not need CO2 injection or fertilizers, etc... although I'm sure they'd do better with an advanced planted tank. Mine aren't advanced. LOL I use the basic fluorescent light fixtures that came with my smaller tanks and I use a 4' shoplight fixture on my 65G tank. I use to only have a 36" shoplight but upgraded since the fixture was on sale at Home Depot for $9.99 and the regular Daylight bulbs were a couple of dollars each at Wally-World... so about $20.00 for my lighting. My plants are growing like crazy right now because of this outrageously priced upgrade in lighting. LOL I had a crypt type plant that was unidentified when I got it from the seller in another forum. It stayed around 6" high and around under the old lighting. Now it's to the top of the water line (17") and the leaves are growing across the top of the water and it's about 2' wide now. WOW... what a difference a little extra lighting does. I thought it was a Cryptocoryne wendtii but now that it's grown so huge, I need to do a little more picture shopping in PlantGeek.net. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 I’m going way out on a limb here from my old days in the hobby and pre-suppose that most LFS have their waters around neutral. Is that still correct? Now don’t yell! Remember, I didn’t have the test kit before so I don’t know what my local (Wally-World) water parameter’s are but living in town years ago, they were always about 6.5 to 7.0. Why I am asking this now is to establish a base for myself to a good working Ph level that I can both establish as well as maintain and up Ph as necessary in my PWC after tank PH levels are established and maintained. The same as you do in your 65. Also from your mail passed, you mentioned plants. I’ve never had a live plant in my life (considering them yet another living thing to try to keep alive and hence worrying about dying) but I remember most of them do pretty well in slightly acid waters and lots of light (type of fluorescent tube). They use to make special tubes to grow out plants but I can’t remember what they are now. I do know that distance away from light or depth of the tank itself is extremely important. Power or lumens of the light between a 20-gallon tank at 13” deep against a similar tank that is 24” deep, lights need to be more powerful. Correct? Just speculating here. Lots of cob-webs in the brain housing assembly. Why this conversation now? From the comments and sounds of the mail about UG filters, Bill finally may be considering an Aquarium without them! I just can’t picture in my minds eye an aquarium without those big plastic tubes in its corners! Bill --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Baseline-----------Day 2 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 12:39 PM Use the information and calculator on this page http://dataguru. org/misc/ aquarium/ calKH.asp Since you are dealing with such a small aquarium, you'll need your smaller measuring scoops. I just did a test calculation on 4G raised to 2 dH and the dosage is only 0.15 teaspoon... which is about 1/7th of a teaspoon so maybe doing doses of 1/8th of a teaspoon in a cup of water and pour 1/2 in, wait a couple of hours and then pour the other 1/2 in. Repeat the next day. That should bring the KH up to 4 dH and your pH up to 6.5 to 6.6 NOTE this statement below the pH Change Calculator.. . "...if your starting KH is 40 (40ppm = apx. 2.2 dH) and you take it up to 80 (80ppm = apx. 4..5 dH) you should see log(80/40) = .3 increase in pH." In your case, since your starting KH is negligible, if you bring it up to 2 dH or apx. 36ppm, you will raise your pH by 0.3 which is the most you would want to do in a day and then I would do the Baking Soda dosing in two 1/2 doses a couple of hours apart, as I stated above.. Then the next day, raise the KH another 36ppm (2.2 dH) to 72ppm (to 4.5 dH) with two more 1/2 doses (the same sized doses as the previous day). That should bring you pH up to the 6.5 pH range and your KH would be around 3-4 dH. If at any point during this increase, you see your fish acting stressed, do a 25% PWC to lower the KH and pH so have a couple of gallons of replacement water at the right temperature, on standby. When you say the 4G aquarium had similar parameters, I'm presuming you were not getting an ammonia or nitrite reading in the 4G... right? If you are, then something isn't right. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:47 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Baseline---- -------Day 2 Here¢s today's numbers for day #2 Baseline for well water. PH 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 1.0 GH 3.0 KH .trace the test said to count the drops and I got a color change after only one drop. Summary: Ph came up from 5.5, Ammonia dropped to 1.0 from 1.5 and the General Hardness came up 3 from yesterdays 2 KH remained the same. Continuing with air line. Now in doing this so far I was amazed to find that the 4-gallon aquarium is just about the same! Since I seem to be trapped in a High Acid Ph situation my question now is how to bring the aquarium up at around 6.5. Yes, I know about soda but for this small of a tank the amount could be very critical. WE want to get where we need to go but I don¢t want to kill anything in the process. How much and when, must be considered. Advise or Comments please, Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 11:39:56 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 2:12:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 3:07:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32596	From: bill1433	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: I may have leave this group!

Of course not...................just a figure of speech!  Those codes are driving me crazy and believe me.................that's a short trip! Started treating 4-gallon with soda---------1/4 of a 1/2 of a teaspoon daily. Was a bite away from a nice 45 from craigslist but missed again.  I think I'm going to give up on email to contact these people as it takes to long back and fourth. If a number is given, I'm going to use the phone.  Couple of nice 30's but the 45's at 36x12 1/2x24 would be more water to play with.  More water less mistakes and things going wrong faster.  Right?   Bill --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I may have leave this group! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 3:54 PM Tell me you're not printing each message? You can make the print on the webpage larger by holding down the control key (Ctrl) and then use your mouse wheel to make type larger or smaller. This also works on most, if not all I.E. Windows and MS applications like Outlook, Outlook Express, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] I may have leave this group! Why? Running out of room! I just sent a reply to Mike's message and the coding to get it sent was longer than the mail message!---- ------I was running out of paper! What's up with that? I know, I know to control spammer's but if they have to read something that long I doubt if you'll have much problem with them. I'm developing "eye strain" just trying to De-Code! Ain't this going back to the Dick Tracy days? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 2:54:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: I may have leave this group!

Yep. Bigger is better... well, not for everything. LOL I think a 10G is the smallest tank I would ever deal with. Anything smaller gets too risky unless you were going to have just a single small fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I may have leave this group! Of course not...................just a figure of speech! Those codes are driving me crazy and believe me.................that's a short trip! Started treating 4-gallon with soda---------1/4 of a 1/2 of a teaspoon daily. Was a bite away from a nice 45 from craigslist but missed again. I think I'm going to give up on email to contact these people as it takes to long back and fourth. If a number is given, I'm going to use the phone. Couple of nice 30's but the 45's at 36x12 1/2x24 would be more water to play with. More water less mistakes and things going wrong faster. Right? Bill --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I may have leave this group! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 3:54 PM Tell me you're not printing each message? You can make the print on the webpage larger by holding down the control key (Ctrl) and then use your mouse wheel to make type larger or smaller. This also works on most, if not all I.E. Windows and MS applications like Outlook, Outlook Express, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] I may have leave this group! Why? Running out of room! I just sent a reply to Mike's message and the coding to get it sent was longer than the mail message!---- ------I was running out of paper! What's up with that? I know, I know to control spammer's but if they have to read something that long I doubt if you'll have much problem with them. I'm developing "eye strain" just trying to De-Code! Ain't this going back to the Dick Tracy days? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 3:17:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32598	From: Alina	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Carbon

Wow. You're not an urban legend. You REALLY do have a link for EVERYTHING!!! I'm working on the song in between figuring out important factoids about carbon in little bags. Thanks for the tips. I have the Marineland Premium activated carbon. Cuz at the time, before the market tanked, I was in a "buy premium" kinda mood. And yet guess what? It has ZERO instructions. Gotta love that. ARGH. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think the tune... "If You Knew Susie" (Like I Know Susie) (sung by Dean > Martin) > http://www.metrolyrics.com/if-you-knew-susie-lyrics-dean-martin.html > would be good background music for "How Much Carbon" (Is Too Much Carbon).. > LOL I want credits if you re-write the rest of the song. LOL > > The reason your current filter cartridges have very little carbon is that > the filter people want you to throw it away ever few weeks so you'll > constantly be buying filter cartridges from them (and inadvertently and > unknowingly putting your tank into a mini-cycle each time.. but they > conveniently forget to tell you that part). > > If you are going to run carbon, then you can add as little or as much as you > need. Usually the product you buy will have instructions. I just peeked at > my quart sized box of API Brand (from about 10 years ago.. lol) and it says > 1/2 cup per 10G of water... but I think it would depend on the brand and how > long you were going to run it in the filter. That 1/2 cup per 10G is for > lasting a month between changing. If I was going to use it for removing > meds, I'd probably use 1/2 that amount for a week or two. > > And.. since I'm in the song parody mode, here's the theme song for "Big > Bruce" (which is already a parody of "Big Bad John").. LOL Someone else can > re-write it for "Big Bruce, Bruce The Eel". > http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/b/bigbruce.shtml > I didn't realize it since I hadn't heard this song in years but it actually > references New Orleans in the song. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 11:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon > > > Hi, > > Following up on my filter media issues: > > So whether I do the appropriate surgery to my filter cartridge/media and add > carbon or if I use a media bag and add it that way, how much carbon is too > much carbon (sounds like a bad jingle)? > > FYI, my filter cartridges have very little carbon inside, I noticed. I have > a 38 gal, not overstocked at all, in fact, understocked. > Parameters are all good, temp now in the 78 range, but in warmer months it's > around 80. I use an Aquaeon 30 filter. > > And may I add, Hurray for Bruce! > > Alina > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 > Tested on: 11/7/2008 12:03:16 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32599	From: Alina	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: PWC in a cycling tank

I have a 10 gallon that I'm cycling and I know someone here recently asked but I don't recall the answer (and I tried doing a search but have had no luck finding it..)....are you supposed to do PWC while cycling a new tank? Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32600	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: Carbon

Hmmm.. I'm surprised that Marineland carbon doesn't have instructions. Dr. Tim Hovenac, when he was the lead scientist at Marineland, wrote detailed and in-depth peer reviewed articles about carbon.. along with developing Bio-Spira, the Bio-Wheel and many other common aquarium products we use today. Here's the DrsFosterSmith.com page on Marineland Black Diamond Premium Carbon. Is this what you have? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3599 You're right. I don't see any instructions for the product and DFS is usually good about including them in the "More Information" section. All the DFS site says is that this brand is supposed to be 3 times more efficient so you might want to use a 1/4 cup per 10G of water and change monthly... if you're going to run it all the time in your tank. After about a month, the carbon should be pretty much used up and would no longer absorb any impurities that you might be using it for. Reading the description also reminds me why many fish keepers quit using carbon. The "normal" non-premium brands of carbon would leach phosphates into the water which might cause algae issues for some folks. Now that Marineland sold out to or merged with Tetra, their site is pathetic so there's nothing on the main Marineland site for directions on using the majority of their products. Maybe the Tetra site has them now. Who knows since my past experiences with Tetra's website left a lot to be desired. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Carbon Wow. You're not an urban legend. You REALLY do have a link for EVERYTHING!!! I'm working on the song in between figuring out important factoids about carbon in little bags. Thanks for the tips. I have the Marineland Premium activated carbon. Cuz at the time, before the market tanked, I was in a "buy premium" kinda mood. And yet guess what? It has ZERO instructions. Gotta love that. ARGH. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think the tune... "If You Knew Susie" (Like I Know Susie) (sung by Dean > Martin) > http://www.metrolyrics.com/if-you-knew-susie-lyrics-dean-martin.html > <http://www.metrolyrics.com/if-you-knew-susie-lyrics-dean-martin.html> > would be good background music for "How Much Carbon" (Is Too Much Carbon).. > LOL I want credits if you re-write the rest of the song. LOL > > The reason your current filter cartridges have very little carbon is that > the filter people want you to throw it away ever few weeks so you'll > constantly be buying filter cartridges from them (and inadvertently and > unknowingly putting your tank into a mini-cycle each time.. but they > conveniently forget to tell you that part). > > If you are going to run carbon, then you can add as little or as much as you > need. Usually the product you buy will have instructions. I just peeked at > my quart sized box of API Brand (from about 10 years ago.. lol) and it says > 1/2 cup per 10G of water... but I think it would depend on the brand and how > long you were going to run it in the filter. That 1/2 cup per 10G is for > lasting a month between changing. If I was going to use it for removing > meds, I'd probably use 1/2 that amount for a week or two. > > And.. since I'm in the song parody mode, here's the theme song for "Big > Bruce" (which is already a parody of "Big Bad John").. LOL Someone else can > re-write it for "Big Bruce, Bruce The Eel". > http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/b/bigbruce.shtml > <http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/b/bigbruce.shtml> > I didn't realize it since I hadn't heard this song in years but it actually > references New Orleans in the song. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 11:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Carbon > > > Hi, > > Following up on my filter media issues: > > So whether I do the appropriate surgery to my filter cartridge/media and add > carbon or if I use a media bag and add it that way, how much carbon is too > much carbon (sounds like a bad jingle)? > > FYI, my filter cartridges have very little carbon inside, I noticed. I have > a 38 gal, not overstocked at all, in fact, understocked. > Parameters are all good, temp now in the 78 range, but in warmer months it's > around 80. I use an Aquaeon 30 filter. > > And may I add, Hurray for Bruce! > > Alina > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 > 12:03:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 9:09:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 9:47:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2008
Subject: Re: PWC in a cycling tank

It depends. If you have hard water, high pH and KH, then you might not have to. The reason some folks HAVE to do PWC's during fishless cycling is their KH level gets too low and the cycling will stall since the nitrifying bacteria (and other earthly life forms) need KH (carbonates) to live. The last time I did one, I did not have to do a PWC but I've seen others where their fishless cycle would stall and it was almost always because the low KH level in their tap water eventually crashed and that also will cause a pH crash. Doing a PWC will usually get the cycle going back full steam ahead. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PWC in a cycling tank I have a 10 gallon that I'm cycling and I know someone here recently asked but I don't recall the answer (and I tried doing a search but have had no luck finding it..)....are you supposed to do PWC while cycling a new tank? Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 9:52:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32602	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town / Lenny's questi

Yes, I have seen it. No, I do not know what is causing it. Have you tried a google? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town / Lenny's question about URL's \\Steve//, I know you're a bit of a computer guru besides being a fish guru also. Have you ever found a reason why URL's are now being broken at the 16-18 character point... which is a recent occurrence that I've only noticed with Yahoo Groups? It doesn't seem to be Yahoo Groups that is doing this but something else.. or may it is Yahoo Groups. If you look down at my previous reply below Jimmy's reply, you'll see that the two email addresses included in the Yahoo Header are intact but then my Blog URL and any email addresses below my post (even Yahoo Header email addresses from earlier replies) are all broken at the 16-18 character mark... but then all the way down, the LONG yahoo links included in the footer area are all intact. Considering the length of their own URL's included in every group message, you'd think they would allow the much shorter URL's that most of us might post. Any thoughts? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town I have also had a hard time getting Ottos to live. It has taken me several months to get a shoal of 5 built up. It seems that every time I get 3, 2 will die before they are ready to come out of quarantine. Once they make it thru quarantine I have never lost one. I usually lose them in 1 or 2 days after I obtain them. This is probable due to them being very prone to stress from catching and moving both from the supplier to the LFS and from the LFS to home. I can usually tell immediately which ones will make it and which ones want. If healthy they can sure clean up a tank quickly and will need additional feeding. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 7:41:31 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town I've read many times of folks having trouble keeping their Otos alive so it could be that the Otos died naturally and then the ADF or other fish snacked on them... so you may not have a Hannibal Lector ADF. LOL (At least I think you had an ADF... I could be confusing you with another member) You could treat the plants first in a quarantine bucket to try and kill off any snails/eggs. That reminds me.. I should probably add links to disinfecting plants on my new Planted Tank blog. I just added the links for disinfecting/ sanitizing plants to the Planted Tank blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:44 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town So I went out to my LFS to see if they carried frozen fish foods and not just the freeze dried, thankfully they do carry it and I picked up some bloodworms and brine shrimp for now. Should I get any others or is this good for my community tank for now? I also got 2 more plants for my tank (live ones), I have mostly fake plants in my tank (the silk ones) and will now have 3 real plants. I like the looks of the real ones better, I just hope the snails don't take over my tank ;) I have decided that since I have bad luck keeping the otocinclus catfish that I'm replacing them with a couple of yoyo loaches to keep any snail issues to a minimum. I know that the yoyo loaches stay small so that'll be good. I'm just going to get 2 of the loaches though, not a school of them as I haven't read anywhere that they are schooling fish. If I am wrong please let me know :) Out of my 5 oto's I only have 2 left, and nothing should have been causing them to die in my tank, and since they died the last time I got them I have decided to just give up on having them, lol. I'd rather not waste money on a fish that for some reason doesn't go well in my tank. Oh and my LFS also told me that there is a lady in town selling her 125 gallon tank and will probably give me a good deal on it. It comes with the hood, light, and a canopy to match the stand. I'm not sure if it comes with a filter or not, but I'm sure I can get one online if I have to. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081105-0, 11/05/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 7:41:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 10:57:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 11:05:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32603	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Filter wEmpty Media Basket

Thanks for the feedback. Some of the sponges have been in the tank for months, so I’m good without gravel. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter wEmpty Media Basket No, it won't hurt it. It's actually easier on the motor since it's not having to push/pull the water through as much filter media. You could throw a handful or two of gravel from a cycled tank, into one of the sections, which will get it cycling even faster... but I'm sure you knew that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter wEmpty Media Basket Will it hurt a filter to run it with two of four media baskets empty? I want to start my two new XP4's on the 125G along with the existing filters so the bacteria can colonize. I have the sponges for the bottom (4th) basket and I'm putting crushed coral in the 3rd basket, but the media for basket 1 and basket 2 won't arrive until next week. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:14:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081106-0, 11/06/2008 Tested on: 11/6/2008 8:33:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32604	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: PWC in a cycling tank

So why not sea shells? They release carbonate into the water when the ph drops so the ph remains stable. ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 7, 2008 10:52:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC in a cycling tank It depends. If you have hard water, high pH and KH, then you might not have to. The reason some folks HAVE to do PWC's during fishless cycling is their KH level gets too low and the cycling will stall since the nitrifying bacteria (and other earthly life forms) need KH (carbonates) to live. The last time I did one, I did not have to do a PWC but I've seen others where their fishless cycle would stall and it was almost always because the low KH level in their tap water eventually crashed and that also will cause a pH crash. Doing a PWC will usually get the cycle going back full steam ahead. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] PWC in a cycling tank I have a 10 gallon that I'm cycling and I know someone here recently asked but I don't recall the answer (and I tried doing a search but have had no luck finding it...)....are you supposed to do PWC while cycling a new tank? Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/7/2008 9:52:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32605	From: Chris	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: wtf!

I bought new fish. 6 serpe tetra, 2 male fancy, 1 female fancy guppy. Just about all died over night in my 10 gal q tank. The only one that is still left is the female fancy. I cannot understand why. I used prime, added an air stone, the tank is at 79 (but 76.8 this morning..I don't see how that could have done it) and they were floating in the bag for 2 hours before I released them. My ph out of the tap is 7.8. There is no ammonia. I thoroughly rinsed the tank and then I sanitised the tank with 3% h2o2. I know there wasn't enough h2o2 to make then sick (maybe an ounce was used cuz I used a spray bottle to mist the tank.) since the h2o2 had plenty of time to break down into oxygen and water before they were introduced. The first fish to start 2 die was a sepre. It started to act drunk. It would swim around and then sink like a rock. It would start swimming again and then fall over and sink. Then it started to drift with the current on its side with the current before it swam again. This behavior started with in 1 hour of release. I didn't get to see the fates of the other fish, but I imagine they were the same. Your thoughts please

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32606	From: Chris	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog

Thanks Lenny for your info. I appreciate it all ways. I'm confused though. If the siphon doesn't have the force to disloge bacteria, how does filterring 100% of the gravel effect a UGF? Does it remove the ammonia source and put the tank into a mini cycle?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32607	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town / Lenny's questi

Yes, I've Googled several different ways and not a single hit that is applicable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town / Lenny's question about URL's Yes, I have seen it. No, I do not know what is causing it. Have you tried a google? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town / Lenny's question about URL's \\Steve//, I know you're a bit of a computer guru besides being a fish guru also. Have you ever found a reason why URL's are now being broken at the 16-18 character point... which is a recent occurrence that I've only noticed with Yahoo Groups? It doesn't seem to be Yahoo Groups that is doing this but something else.. or may it is Yahoo Groups. If you look down at my previous reply below Jimmy's reply, you'll see that the two email addresses included in the Yahoo Header are intact but then my Blog URL and any email addresses below my post (even Yahoo Header email addresses from earlier replies) are all broken at the 16-18 character mark... but then all the way down, the LONG yahoo links included in the footer area are all intact. Considering the length of their own URL's included in every group message, you'd think they would allow the much shorter URL's that most of us might post. Any thoughts? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town I have also had a hard time getting Ottos to live. It has taken me several months to get a shoal of 5 built up. It seems that every time I get 3, 2 will die before they are ready to come out of quarantine. Once they make it thru quarantine I have never lost one. I usually lose them in 1 or 2 days after I obtain them. This is probable due to them being very prone to stress from catching and moving both from the supplier to the LFS and from the LFS to home. I can usually tell immediately which ones will make it and which ones want. If healthy they can sure clean up a tank quickly and will need additional feeding. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 7:41:31 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town I've read many times of folks having trouble keeping their Otos alive so it could be that the Otos died naturally and then the ADF or other fish snacked on them... so you may not have a Hannibal Lector ADF. LOL (At least I think you had an ADF... I could be confusing you with another member) You could treat the plants first in a quarantine bucket to try and kill off any snails/eggs. That reminds me.. I should probably add links to disinfecting plants on my new Planted Tank blog. I just added the links for disinfecting/ sanitizing plants to the Planted Tank blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:44 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Found frozen not freeze dried fish food in town So I went out to my LFS to see if they carried frozen fish foods and not just the freeze dried, thankfully they do carry it and I picked up some bloodworms and brine shrimp for now. Should I get any others or is this good for my community tank for now? I also got 2 more plants for my tank (live ones), I have mostly fake plants in my tank (the silk ones) and will now have 3 real plants. I like the looks of the real ones better, I just hope the snails don't take over my tank ;) I have decided that since I have bad luck keeping the otocinclus catfish that I'm replacing them with a couple of yoyo loaches to keep any snail issues to a minimum. I know that the yoyo loaches stay small so that'll be good. I'm just going to get 2 of the loaches though, not a school of them as I haven't read anywhere that they are schooling fish. If I am wrong please let me know :) Out of my 5 oto's I only have 2 left, and nothing should have been causing them to die in my tank, and since they died the last time I got them I have decided to just give up on having them, lol. I'd rather not waste money on a fish that for some reason doesn't go well in my tank. Oh and my LFS also told me that there is a lady in town selling her 125 gallon tank and will probably give me a good deal on it. It comes with the hood, light, and a canopy to match the stand. I'm not sure if it comes with a filter or not, but I'm sure I can get one online if I have to. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 9:45:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32608	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: PWC in a cycling tank

Seashells, crushed coral, oyster shells, etc. will release calcium carbonates, etc., but they are very hard to start with so they are for LOOONNNGGG term leaching (unless the micro-powdered form is used like Oyster Flour) and the fishless cycle will only be taking 4-6 weeks so I seriously doubt they would leach fast enough to keep the KH up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PWC in a cycling tank So why not sea shells? They release carbonate into the water when the ph drops so the ph remains stable. ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 7, 2008 10:52:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC in a cycling tank It depends. If you have hard water, high pH and KH, then you might not have to. The reason some folks HAVE to do PWC's during fishless cycling is their KH level gets too low and the cycling will stall since the nitrifying bacteria (and other earthly life forms) need KH (carbonates) to live. The last time I did one, I did not have to do a PWC but I've seen others where their fishless cycle would stall and it was almost always because the low KH level in their tap water eventually crashed and that also will cause a pH crash. Doing a PWC will usually get the cycle going back full steam ahead. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] PWC in a cycling tank I have a 10 gallon that I'm cycling and I know someone here recently asked but I don't recall the answer (and I tried doing a search but have had no luck finding it...)....are you supposed to do PWC while cycling a new tank? Alina _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 9:52:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32609	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!

Most likely pH shock. You mention floating the bag for 2 hours but what was the water parameters from the store water? Did you slowly add some of your water to the bag every 15 minutes? If you just floated them for 2 hours, then dumped or netted them into your tank, that is the problem. They likely suffered pH shock, osmotic shock, etc... most likely pH shock which is quite often deadly to fish. Here is the page dealing with Acclimation from The Krib's online fish keeping tutorial. I've recommended these online fish keeping tutorials that I have listed on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. The below section is included in those tutorials. http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-addfish.html#acclimation Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] wtf! I bought new fish. 6 serpe tetra, 2 male fancy, 1 female fancy guppy. Just about all died over night in my 10 gal q tank. The only one that is still left is the female fancy. I cannot understand why. I used prime, added an air stone, the tank is at 79 (but 76.8 this morning..I don't see how that could have done it) and they were floating in the bag for 2 hours before I released them. My ph out of the tap is 7.8. There is no ammonia. I thoroughly rinsed the tank and then I sanitised the tank with 3% h2o2. I know there wasn't enough h2o2 to make then sick (maybe an ounce was used cuz I used a spray bottle to mist the tank.) since the h2o2 had plenty of time to break down into oxygen and water before they were introduced. The first fish to start 2 die was a sepre. It started to act drunk. It would swim around and then sink like a rock. It would start swimming again and then fall over and sink. Then it started to drift with the current on its side with the current before it swam again. This behavior started with in 1 hour of release. I didn't get to see the fates of the other fish, but I imagine they were the same. Your thoughts please _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 10:08:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32610	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Prefect Water?

Please forgive this post but I lost (through deleting messages to fast) something that someone; Lenny, Ray, Steve posted just a bit ago and I�m asking for a repost of the information again.� I cannot find it on the groups archeive section search. � I�m doing the last of the 48-hour baseline for my well water here and noticed from my �notebook� from all of your contributions that I lost some very important information. � Could someone repost Perfect Water Conditions?� Ph, Gh, Kh, all of those numbers again? � Bill----------------Dad always told me that it was not a sin to be ignorant, only a sin to stay that way, ask for help! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32611	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Prefect Water?

Depends on the fish. For some fish, a very low pH, very soft water is perfect, for other fish, a very high pH, very hard water is perfect. For others, it's every where in between. This is one of the reasons why we try to encourage folks to keep fish that are best suited for their out-the-tap water parameters so you are not constantly having to alter the water chemistry... which due to human error, will one day result in a problem. Most of the popular community type fish will acclimate to a broad range of water parameters which is why they became so popular... but sometimes the tap water parameters may be outside the range of even their preferences. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:52 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Prefect Water? Please forgive this post but I lost (through deleting messages to fast) something that someone; Lenny, Ray, Steve posted just a bit ago and I’m asking for a repost of the information again. I cannot find it on the groups archeive section search. I’m doing the last of the 48-hour baseline for my well water here and noticed from my “notebook” from all of your contributions that I lost some very important information. Could someone repost Perfect Water Conditions? Ph, Gh, Kh, all of those numbers again? Bill----------------Dad always told me that it was not a sin to be ignorant, only a sin to stay that way, ask for help! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 10:10:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 10:26:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32612	From: Chris	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!

I'll find out today --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Most likely pH shock. > > You mention floating the bag for 2 hours but what was the water parameters > from the store water? Did you slowly add some of your water to the bag > every 15 minutes? If you just floated them for 2 hours, then dumped or > netted them into your tank, that is the problem. They likely suffered pH > shock, osmotic shock, etc... most likely pH shock which is quite often > deadly to fish. > > Here is the page dealing with Acclimation from The Krib's online fish > keeping tutorial. I've recommended these online fish keeping tutorials that > I have listed on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. The below section is > included in those tutorials. > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-addfish.html#acclimation > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] wtf! > > I bought new fish. 6 serpe tetra, 2 male fancy, 1 female fancy guppy. > Just about all died over night in my 10 gal q tank. The only one that is > still left is the female fancy. I cannot understand why. I used prime, added > an air stone, the tank is at 79 (but 76.8 this morning..I don't see how that > could have done it) and they were floating in the bag for 2 hours before I > released them. My ph out of the tap is 7.8. > There is no ammonia. I thoroughly rinsed the tank and then I sanitised the > tank with 3% h2o2. I know there wasn't enough h2o2 to make then sick (maybe > an ounce was used cuz I used a spray bottle to mist the > tank.) since the h2o2 had plenty of time to break down into oxygen and water > before they were introduced. > > The first fish to start 2 die was a sepre. It started to act drunk. > It would swim around and then sink like a rock. It would start swimming > again and then fall over and sink. Then it started to drift with the current > on its side with the current before it swam again. > This behavior started with in 1 hour of release. I didn't get to see the > fates of the other fish, but I imagine they were the same. > > Your thoughts please > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 10:08:14 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32613	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Claudia, was: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remo

His request may then simply be awaiting her return to be acted upon. If it was not done via e-mail. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Claudia, was: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cic I don't believe so. I recall she is to get back later this month, but I don't know when. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Has she returned from Africa? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > Hi Mike, There's no reason why you should not be receiving your > Buntbarsche Bulletins. Try contacting Claudia Dickinson, < > ivyrose@... >, she's the Membership Coordinator. I'm sure > she'll see to it in straightening this problem out. She's a terrific > worker for ACA, in fact I'd say relentless. Tell her "Hi" for me. > > Having Ad Konings out there to do a talk for you guys was indeed > fortunate, and I'll bet had to be quite informative. He's done talks > for some of the clubs around here, including my home club (NJAS) and > has always been well received. I had the opportunity to get to know > him a little better when I drove him to his hotel after his giving a > talk for the Brooklyn Aquarium Society; seems like a real down to > earth guy, loaded with info on the Rift Lakes and his photography is > great. > > I don't know Chuck Rambo, only know of him. I see he's quite > knowledgeable and very active. There are a number of newer ACA > members like him who are also doing a great job. Good to see this > continuing and increased interest in the organization carry the ball > from us old timers(lol). We did our part in getting the ACA off the > ground and its just good to see how far its gone. > > I noticed Chuck's quite an active member of your Pacific Coast > Cichlid Association being on the BOD, even being president in 2005. > Sounds like you have a great club out your way to go to. BTW, your > club's magazine -- Cichlid Communique (I guess previously, Cichlid > Blues) -- has got to be one of the best out there on these fish. I > always enjoy reading them when I can (See, these things don't go > unnoticed, lol). Best, Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association). We are very > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a > wealth of information! > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > > and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish > > like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > As > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > dwell > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > but > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > to > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > > to, > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > just > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > varied > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > like > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > are > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > > at > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > > are > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > attempt > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > > it'll > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > hide > > > or is > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > > eggs or > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > good > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > produce > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > survive, > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > > tree > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > > shelter > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > that > > > over. > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32614	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4  .25 GH 2 Kh  1   Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same.   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32615	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??

I no longer use UFG filtration. I do not rule it out completely, but I cannot say under what circumstances I would use it again. The gravel was both the mechanical and biological filtration media, and, depending on the depth and type of gravel (#2 seemed to give the best results, with #1 being too fine and #3, the normal gravel found for aquaria, too coarse). The substrate needed regular cleaning throughout its depth. Use of common tank decorations could cause "dead spots" where no water flow through the gravel would occur. Rooted plants that depended on the substrate fro nutrients did not do well, but those plants whose roots were mainly anchors did OK, but, both would get their roots so tangled in the UGF plate as to make it unsuitable for much water flow and would eventually cause another dead spot. The mulm under the plate was, inert, a fact that seems to have gone missing in previous posts here about UGF filters in this go around. In its time, I believe the UGF filter was a boon to the hobby for several years while new filters were developed and perfected to help with the newly "discovered" nitrogen cycle. We now have better filters and methods of filtration from the inexpensive sponge filters to the expensive sump and trickle filters, with everything in between. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:16 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? There's seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further.. Are you folks using them?  With power heads?   Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now.  Not wishing to do a setup twice I'd like to know; Under gravel's yes or no.  Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used.   Your comments please, in short:  "Whatcha Think"?   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32616	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!

But did you add some of your tank water and remove some of the bag water every 15 minutes to acclimate them to your tank water parameters? I never do the floating bag thing. When I get my bagged fish home, I open the bag and pour them into a casserole bowl and add a drop of Prime to detox any ammonia buildup. If the store added pure O2 to the bag, then it shouldn't be problem but if they didn't, the CO2 levels may have built up. This is a good thing since it would have lowered the pH of the water in the bag making the ammonia non or less toxic. But when you open the bag and agitate the water, the CO2 will start to outgas and if there is an ammonia level, it could become toxic quite quickly.. thus the addition of the drop of Prime. Once in the casserole bowl, then I start to add my tank water about a 1/2 cup at a time every few to 15 minutes (I would know the water parameters of the bagged water by now also) and when the casserole bowl gets closer to being full, I start to remove some of the water from the casserole bowl 1/2 cup at a time and then add another 1/2 cup of my tank water. After an hour or more.. depending on what the store's water and bag water parameters were compared to my own, and after doing these 1/2 cup PWC's every few to 15 minutes, then once the casserole bowl parameters are identical to my tanks parameters (this method will also bring up or down the temperature since you'll be adding tank water to the casserole bowl every few minutes), then it's time to pour them into the Q-tank or net them into a main tank if someone is taking that chance. Here's a much longer article on Acclimating fish that I have in my favorites folder. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Acclimation.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wtf! I'll find out today --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Most likely pH shock. > > You mention floating the bag for 2 hours but what was the water parameters > from the store water? Did you slowly add some of your water to the bag > every 15 minutes? If you just floated them for 2 hours, then dumped or > netted them into your tank, that is the problem. They likely suffered pH > shock, osmotic shock, etc... most likely pH shock which is quite often > deadly to fish. > > Here is the page dealing with Acclimation from The Krib's online fish > keeping tutorial. I've recommended these online fish keeping tutorials that > I have listed on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. The below section > is included in those tutorials. > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-addfish.html#acclimation > <http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-addfish.html#acclimation> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] wtf! > > I bought new fish. 6 serpe tetra, 2 male fancy, 1 female fancy guppy. > Just about all died over night in my 10 gal q tank. The only one that > is still left is the female fancy. I cannot understand why. I used prime, added > an air stone, the tank is at 79 (but 76.8 this morning..I don't see how that > could have done it) and they were floating in the bag for 2 hours before I > released them. My ph out of the tap is 7.8. > There is no ammonia. I thoroughly rinsed the tank and then I sanitised the > tank with 3% h2o2. I know there wasn't enough h2o2 to make then sick (maybe > an ounce was used cuz I used a spray bottle to mist the > tank.) since the h2o2 had plenty of time to break down into oxygen and water > before they were introduced. > > The first fish to start 2 die was a sepre. It started to act drunk. > It would swim around and then sink like a rock. It would start > swimming again and then fall over and sink. Then it started to drift > with the current > on its side with the current before it swam again. > This behavior started with in 1 hour of release. I didn't get to see > the fates of the other fish, but I imagine they were the same. > > Your thoughts please > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 1:04:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32617	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish.mongabay.com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 1:20:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32618	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??

Thanks Steve,   I appreciate your comments.   Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 1:58 PM I no longer use UFG filtration. I do not rule it out completely, but I cannot say under what circumstances I would use it again. The gravel was both the mechanical and biological filtration media, and, depending on the depth and type of gravel (#2 seemed to give the best results, with #1 being too fine and #3, the normal gravel found for aquaria, too coarse). The substrate needed regular cleaning throughout its depth. Use of common tank decorations could cause "dead spots" where no water flow through the gravel would occur. Rooted plants that depended on the substrate fro nutrients did not do well, but those plants whose roots were mainly anchors did OK, but, both would get their roots so tangled in the UGF plate as to make it unsuitable for much water flow and would eventually cause another dead spot. The mulm under the plate was, inert, a fact that seems to have gone missing in previous posts here about UGF filters in this go around. In its time, I believe the UGF filter was a boon to the hobby for several years while new filters were developed and perfected to help with the newly "discovered" nitrogen cycle. We now have better filters and methods of filtration from the inexpensive sponge filters to the expensive sump and trickle filters, with everything in between. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:16 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? There's seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further... Are you folks using them?  With power heads?   Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now.  Not wishing to do a setup twice I'd like to know; Under gravel's yes or no.  Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used.   Your comments please, in short:  "Whatcha Think"?   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32619	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Hi Lenny, � As per �your usual�, you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra�s. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory�s and all neon�s. It was quite a site!� Of course, the fish were cheaper then. � Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. � Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 1:20:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32620	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog

Chris, Back in the heyday of the UGF, the cycle was not as well understood as it is now. The seminal work in the field was first published in 1971 and a second edition was issued in 1979. You'll find that edition of _Fish and Invertebrate Culture_ by Stephen Spotte, cited in most serious scientific discussions of water quality issues in closed systems (i.e. aquaria). With the UGF filter, it was believed that by vacuuming the substrate, whatever made it work was being disrupted, and bad things would ensue. There were numerous tales of woe of people who had done that and lost fish or tanks as a result. I would like to believe that the tales of woe were mainly due to people who do not have a clue being helped by those who have even less of a clue, just like today. And, just like today, one story of woe is me is worth 100 stories of this works just as advertised. Another interesting phenomena in the hobby is the way misinformation is seldom culled from the literature. If there are any of you out there that collect hobby literature, you may notice that some of the misinformation published in books from the '50's is still being published as fact more than 50 years later. No one has bothered to go back and check the facts to ensure accuracy. Now, where did I start? This being sick thing has really disrupted my life this week--only able to work 6-8 hour days, sleeping far too much, space city when I am awake, etc. Oh, yeah, siphoning gravel and removal of bacteria. Some bacteria will inevitably be removed. But not enough to make a difference. I think it was Lenny who put a pretty good description together earlier. And you do need to siphon the substrate to remove all the waste that will be trapped there. It will not reduce the efficacy of the filter in doing so, since the reactions are taken upon substances in solution, not in solid form. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Lenny, Your Blog I was tired and rushed posting. I should have been more thurough. The question was really about siphoning the gravel. Did I read right that siphoning removes the established bacteria that live in the gravel? If you have a artical that explains it, please post the link, because I cannot find it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32621	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_sanctaefilomenae.html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 2:15:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32622	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny, Your Blog

The other thing I'd like to add... when properly cleaning (meaning limited cleaning in removed tank water, to preserve the nitrifying bacteria) filter media (and gravel also), it's OK if some of the nitrifying bacteria are removed or killed off as long as you preserve the majority of them. The reason it's OK if some are removed/killed is that when cleaning, you are also removing a lot of the detritus that was putting out ammonia as part of it's decaying so you will be removing a large source of ammonia anyhow so you will not need as many N-bacteria right after cleaning the gravel and/or other filter media. The main thing is to not throw away ALL of your good bacteria by trashing a filter cartridge or cleaning your filter media in hot or cold chlorinated water. Removed tank water is the best thing to clean your filter pads/cartridges and vacuuming the gravel good and deep and clean is the way to clean it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Lenny, Your Blog Chris, Back in the heyday of the UGF, the cycle was not as well understood as it is now. The seminal work in the field was first published in 1971 and a second edition was issued in 1979. You'll find that edition of _Fish and Invertebrate Culture_ by Stephen Spotte, cited in most serious scientific discussions of water quality issues in closed systems (i.e. aquaria). With the UGF filter, it was believed that by vacuuming the substrate, whatever made it work was being disrupted, and bad things would ensue. There were numerous tales of woe of people who had done that and lost fish or tanks as a result. I would like to believe that the tales of woe were mainly due to people who do not have a clue being helped by those who have even less of a clue, just like today. And, just like today, one story of woe is me is worth 100 stories of this works just as advertised. Another interesting phenomena in the hobby is the way misinformation is seldom culled from the literature. If there are any of you out there that collect hobby literature, you may notice that some of the misinformation published in books from the '50's is still being published as fact more than 50 years later. No one has bothered to go back and check the facts to ensure accuracy. Now, where did I start? This being sick thing has really disrupted my life this week--only able to work 6-8 hour days, sleeping far too much, space city when I am awake, etc. Oh, yeah, siphoning gravel and removal of bacteria. Some bacteria will inevitably be removed. But not enough to make a difference. I think it was Lenny who put a pretty good description together earlier. And you do need to siphon the substrate to remove all the waste that will be trapped there. It will not reduce the efficacy of the filter in doing so, since the reactions are taken upon substances in solution, not in solid form. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Lenny, Your Blog I was tired and rushed posting. I should have been more thurough. The question was really about siphoning the gravel. Did I read right that siphoning removes the established bacteria that live in the gravel? If you have a artical that explains it, please post the link, because I cannot find it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 2:21:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32623	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Len,   They gots the names wrong!  Even the common names!  Whatever the fish is that I have it ain't what they have!  Might take a few days here but I'm going to try too post pictures.  Its the only clear way to ID themn properly.  Darn Wally-World!   Thanks again for the corrected link,   Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 2:15:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32624	From: Chris	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!

I didn't get a chance to read, but I poked holes through the bag this time. I believe that should do it. I asked one of the workers what the ph is of the water and he tested it with an API test. It read 8.1, but the area wasn't well light so it may be less that that. My ph is between 7.8 and 8. Thats a .1 to .3 difference if the reading was read right. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Most likely pH shock. > > You mention floating the bag for 2 hours but what was the water parameters > from the store water? Did you slowly add some of your water to the bag > every 15 minutes? If you just floated them for 2 hours, then dumped or > netted them into your tank, that is the problem. They likely suffered pH > shock, osmotic shock, etc... most likely pH shock which is quite often > deadly to fish. > > Here is the page dealing with Acclimation from The Krib's online fish > keeping tutorial. I've recommended these online fish keeping tutorials that > I have listed on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. The below section is > included in those tutorials. > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-addfish.html#acclimation > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] wtf! > > I bought new fish. 6 serpe tetra, 2 male fancy, 1 female fancy guppy. > Just about all died over night in my 10 gal q tank. The only one that is > still left is the female fancy. I cannot understand why. I used prime, added > an air stone, the tank is at 79 (but 76.8 this morning..I don't see how that > could have done it) and they were floating in the bag for 2 hours before I > released them. My ph out of the tap is 7.8. > There is no ammonia. I thoroughly rinsed the tank and then I sanitised the > tank with 3% h2o2. I know there wasn't enough h2o2 to make then sick (maybe > an ounce was used cuz I used a spray bottle to mist the > tank.) since the h2o2 had plenty of time to break down into oxygen and water > before they were introduced. > > The first fish to start 2 die was a sepre. It started to act drunk. > It would swim around and then sink like a rock. It would start swimming > again and then fall over and sink. Then it started to drift with the current > on its side with the current before it swam again. > This behavior started with in 1 hour of release. I didn't get to see the > fates of the other fish, but I imagine they were the same. > > Your thoughts please > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 10:08:14 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32625	From: mchaneyjm	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit

Today I completed the testing of my tank with both the API Fresh Water Master Kit and the AquaTru Fresh Water Master Kit. The results: Ammonia 0.0 mg/l(both API and AquaTru) Nitrite 0.0 mg/l (API) less than 0.15 mg/l(AquaTru - lowest reading) Nitrate approx 15mg/l (API-greater than 10, less than 20) less than 35 mg/l (AquaTru - lowest reading) Conclusion: The AquaTru Kit is easier to read than the API Kit. The AquaTru is no more accurate than the API Kit IMO (based on my one kit and test of each). The AquaTru Kit takes longer (15 min & 10 min for Ammonia and Nitite, but only 1 minute for Nitrate with AquaTru and only 5 min for each with API). The clean up takes longer with the AquaTru Kit. Cost (including shiping) is 1.50 per individual test with AquaTru Kit, while only pennies (or less) with API Kit. I wish the AquaTru Kit gave a 0.0 reading on the Nitite test. Maybe it does on the Low Range Nitrate (my kit has the High Range Nitrate. I will continue to use the API Kit on a routine basis (weekly or more often) and the AquaTru Kit only when I fill there is a problem or maybe periodicly to confirm API Kit results. Tomorrow I will be doing a PWC and the Nitrate should come done to approx 10 mg/l. Jimmy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > I'll be doing regular testing on Saturday right before my PWC and I will post the comparisons of the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. >  Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 4:43:02 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit > > > Let us know how the rest of the tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) compare > when you do them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit > > I got an AquaTru Fresh Water Master test kit. I have only used the pH test > so far but it is much easier to read than the API. The down side of the > AquaTru pH is that it reads only in increments of 0.5 pH whereas the API is > in increments of 0.2-0.4. The AquaTru Kit clearly showed a pH of 7.5 and > the API showed a pH of 7.8 on a sample of water from the same tank. Based > on the ease of determining a reading I prefer the AquaTru Kit. The API kit > may be about as accuate and is much less expensive. BTW there is free > replacement of out-of-date reagents on the AquaTru Kit. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 4:39:10 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 > Tested on: 11/4/2008 4:43:02 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32626	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

LOL... NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, trust a pet store to have the fish properly labeled... nor 95% of the other info they might give out. LOL Even LFS' have problems some times but pet stores, wally-world pet depts, etc. are not the place to look for proper information. My suggestion for future purchases. Look at the fish in the tanks first, write down the names they have them labeled with. Go home and do a little research to verify BEFORE buying. Hopefully you didn't buy a school of Pacu's or Arowana's... but at least you wouldn't have to worry about them pipes leaking in your basement since you'll have to turn it into a fish tank. LOL Here are some other "Red-Eyed Tetra" or "Redeyed Tetra" or "Red Eye Tetra" profiles but they all match the Pictures link on the Mongabay profile. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_sanctaefilomenae.html http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=10674 http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/tet-rede.htm http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Moenkhausia_sanctaefilomenae.php http://www.elmersaquarium.com/10tetra_redeye.htm Now, on a side note, on one of the tanks I adopted/saved back in 2005, pre-Katrina, I got some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that had red eyes so check out the images of them on the net to see if maybe that is what you have. Here's a decent pic of one of them. http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_buenosm.php Note that these fish (and the Red-Eyed Tetra probably get too large... close to 3" each) for a 10G tank or smaller tanks since they should be kept in schools of six, that's about three too many for a 10G tank. One of the weird things my Albino Buenos Aires Tetras would do is get in a school in the outflow of the filter and swim against the current, kind of hovering in place while they were actually swimming quite rapidly... almost like one of them new-fangled indoor swimming pools where the water flows from end to end while the swimmer stays in place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not Len, They gots the names wrong! Even the common names! Whatever the fish is that I have it ain't what they have! Might take a few days here but I'm going to try too post pictures. Its the only clear way to ID themn properly. Darn Wally-World! Thanks again for the corrected link, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 4:06:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32627	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!

Well if I'm not mistaken h2o2 is peroxide and is and absolute no go in a fish tank. Also how long had your tank been setup prior to putting fish in it? Also 2 hours is a long time for fish to be stuck in a bag, oxygen in the water should be gone by that time and the fish are trapped in a bag and looking at freedom. So my guess is the stress of the move and being trapped in the bag seriously stressed the fish out. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I bought new fish. 6 serpe tetra, 2 male fancy, 1 female fancy guppy. > Just about all died over night in my 10 gal q tank. The only one that > is still left is the female fancy. I cannot understand why. I used > prime, added an air stone, the tank is at 79 (but 76.8 this morning..I > don't see how that could have done it) and they were floating in the > bag for 2 hours before I released them. My ph out of the tap is 7.8. > There is no ammonia. I thoroughly rinsed the tank and then I sanitised > the tank with 3% h2o2. I know there wasn't enough h2o2 to make then > sick (maybe an ounce was used cuz I used a spray bottle to mist the > tank.) since the h2o2 had plenty of time to break down into oxygen and > water before they were introduced. > > The first fish to start 2 die was a sepre. It started to act drunk. > It would swim around and then sink like a rock. It would start > swimming again and then fall over and sink. Then it started to drift > with the current on its side with the current before it swam again. > This behavior started with in 1 hour of release. I didn't get to see > the fates of the other fish, but I imagine they were the same. > > Your thoughts please >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32628	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit

Since seeing how the Aqua Tru kit works with the dual chambered test tubes, so the color card is viewed through the actual test tube but compared while looking at the card through a test tube of tank water, which compensates for any coloration added by the tank water... whew, this is a long sentence.. lol.. but anyhow, this can be replicated with the API kit by using two of the API test tubes, one with plain tank water and the other with the test water and look at the color chart through the tubes side-by-side. If folks tank water has a slight color to it, this would help them read the API color cards easier. I find that reading them under a nice bright fluorescent light works fine for me. Glad to see the API kit does as well as the Aqua Tru kit... actually even better in some cases since the Aqua Tru doesn't have as low of numbers on some of their tests like for nitrite and nitrate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mchaneyjm Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit Today I completed the testing of my tank with both the API Fresh Water Master Kit and the AquaTru Fresh Water Master Kit. The results: Ammonia 0.0 mg/l(both API and AquaTru) Nitrite 0.0 mg/l (API) less than 0.15 mg/l(AquaTru - lowest reading) Nitrate approx 15mg/l (API-greater than 10, less than 20) less than 35 mg/l (AquaTru - lowest reading) Conclusion: The AquaTru Kit is easier to read than the API Kit. The AquaTru is no more accurate than the API Kit IMO (based on my one kit and test of each). The AquaTru Kit takes longer (15 min & 10 min for Ammonia and Nitite, but only 1 minute for Nitrate with AquaTru and only 5 min for each with API). The clean up takes longer with the AquaTru Kit. Cost (including shiping) is 1.50 per individual test with AquaTru Kit, while only pennies (or less) with API Kit. I wish the AquaTru Kit gave a 0.0 reading on the Nitite test. Maybe it does on the Low Range Nitrate (my kit has the High Range Nitrate. I will continue to use the API Kit on a routine basis (weekly or more often) and the AquaTru Kit only when I fill there is a problem or maybe periodicly to confirm API Kit results. Tomorrow I will be doing a PWC and the Nitrate should come done to approx 10 mg/l. Jimmy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > I'll be doing regular testing on Saturday right before my PWC and I will post the comparisons of the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 4:43:02 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit > > > Let us know how the rest of the tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) compare > when you do them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit > > I got an AquaTru Fresh Water Master test kit. I have only used the pH test > so far but it is much easier to read than the API. The down side of the > AquaTru pH is that it reads only in increments of 0.5 pH whereas the API is > in increments of 0.2-0.4. The AquaTru Kit clearly showed a pH of 7.5 and > the API showed a pH of 7.8 on a sample of water from the same tank. Based > on the ease of determining a reading I prefer the AquaTru Kit. The API kit > may be about as accuate and is much less expensive. BTW there is free > replacement of out-of-date reagents on the AquaTru Kit. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 4:39:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 4:43:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 3:55:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 4:14:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32629	From: sexylady	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank

I just rescued 3 gold fish that were in a fairly large tank in a trailer i am hoping to buy with my bf. The previous tenant left them behind. I took those three as they were swimming very slowly and lethargically. I now have them in a 10 gallon aquarium and since i brought them to where i am staying they have perked up real good. I am feeding them 2x a day and plan on getting a bottom feeder as the last time i had any fish what so ever I had a tendency to over feed the fish. What other kinds of food do I need to feed them besides the dried flakes? or are they enough?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32630	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi Ray & Mike   I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you two have been posting.   Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize me, as they think I may have a treat for them.   Ray, your knowledge is awesome.   John in Nevada --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM Hi Ray, I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. -Mike BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad Konings. Ray -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi and Boulengerochromis in Tanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish like the various Utakas of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- dwelling fish in my post, trying to keep in line with the original poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to feed on their surfaces. BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad Konings. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Excellent information Ray. > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > But you probably already knew that :) > > -Mike > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but because > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > situation. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring to, > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely varied > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- like > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite at > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids are > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but because > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > situation. > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even attempt > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > it'll > > effect yours specifically though. > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > or is > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > eggs or > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > snack ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they produce > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > survive, > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake tree > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > shelter > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken that > over. > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32631	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit

The AquaTru Kit only comes with enough reagent to do 10 of each test.  With multiply tanks I'm not sure our little post office (1 employee) here in Husser can keep up with my ordering and receiving supplies.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 4:14:59 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit Since seeing how the Aqua Tru kit works with the dual chambered test tubes, so the color card is viewed through the actual test tube but compared while looking at the card through a test tube of tank water, which compensates for any coloration added by the tank water... whew, this is a long sentence.. lol.. but anyhow, this can be replicated with the API kit by using two of the API test tubes, one with plain tank water and the other with the test water and look at the color chart through the tubes side-by-side. If folks tank water has a slight color to it, this would help them read the API color cards easier. I find that reading them under a nice bright fluorescent light works fine for me. Glad to see the API kit does as well as the Aqua Tru kit.... actually even better in some cases since the Aqua Tru doesn't have as low of numbers on some of their tests like for nitrite and nitrate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of mchaneyjm Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit Today I completed the testing of my tank with both the API Fresh Water Master Kit and the AquaTru Fresh Water Master Kit. The results: Ammonia 0.0 mg/l(both API and AquaTru) Nitrite 0.0 mg/l (API) less than 0.15 mg/l(AquaTru - lowest reading) Nitrate approx 15mg/l (API-greater than 10, less than 20) less than 35 mg/l (AquaTru - lowest reading) Conclusion: The AquaTru Kit is easier to read than the API Kit. The AquaTru is no more accurate than the API Kit IMO (based on my one kit and test of each). The AquaTru Kit takes longer (15 min & 10 min for Ammonia and Nitite, but only 1 minute for Nitrate with AquaTru and only 5 min for each with API). The clean up takes longer with the AquaTru Kit. Cost (including shiping) is 1.50 per individual test with AquaTru Kit, while only pennies (or less) with API Kit. I wish the AquaTru Kit gave a 0.0 reading on the Nitite test. Maybe it does on the Low Range Nitrate (my kit has the High Range Nitrate. I will continue to use the API Kit on a routine basis (weekly or more often) and the AquaTru Kit only when I fill there is a problem or maybe periodicly to confirm API Kit results. Tomorrow I will be doing a PWC and the Nitrate should come done to approx 10 mg/l. Jimmy --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@. ..> wrote: > > I'll be doing regular testing on Saturday right before my PWC and I will post the comparisons of the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 4:43:02 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit > > > Let us know how the rest of the tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) compare > when you do them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] API vs AquaTru Master Test Kit > > I got an AquaTru Fresh Water Master test kit. I have only used the pH test > so far but it is much easier to read than the API. The down side of the > AquaTru pH is that it reads only in increments of 0.5 pH whereas the API is > in increments of 0.2-0.4. The AquaTru Kit clearly showed a pH of 7.5 and > the API showed a pH of 7.8 on a sample of water from the same tank. Based > on the ease of determining a reading I prefer the AquaTru Kit. The API kit > may be about as accuate and is much less expensive. BTW there is free > replacement of out-of-date reagents on the AquaTru Kit. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 4:39:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081104-0, 11/04/2008 Tested on: 11/4/2008 > 4:43:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www..avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 3:55:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 4:14:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!

Yes, H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide but it's actually OK to put in a tank for certain issues. That's presuming it's the store bought variety which is only a 3% to 5% solution. One ounce per 10G is used by some when treating certain stubborn algae varieties. It's squirted right onto the algae using a syringe (or turkey baster in a bigger tank). This has been used even with tanks with new-born fry in the tank as long as the H2O2 isn't squirted on or too close to the fish so it has a chance to oxidize before getting on the fish. H2O2 is often prescribed or used as a treatment for outdoor ponds that are suffering from low O2 levels during hot summers. It will immediately raise the O2 levels in the water. H2O2 is also the reason that Barley Hay works on reducing algae in outdoor ponds. As the Barley Hay breaks down in the pond, it releases H2O2 into the water... raising the O2 levels and reducing the CO2 levels. My first thoughts were that the misting process made the H2O2 even less of a threat since that would allow it to outgas the extra O2 molecule even quicker. I probably would have wiped it out with a clean rag and given it a quick rinse first but I don't think the H2O2 was the problem if it was only an ounce or less per 10G. I think that keeping them in the bag for two hours without doing proper acclimation was the cause and the water in the bag with higher CO2 levels had a lower pH as a result and it was pH shock. Here's an article on pH Shock and Shock in general http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/phshock.msnw http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw Note - Do not join this MSN group if you do read the above two pages since MSN is shutting down groups in Feb. 2009 and moving them to a Social Networking site called Multiply.. which is not conducive to message boards like we have here. MSN Groups never were as easy to deal with as Yahoo Groups but they did have the added features of being able to include lots of articles in their menu system. We have the Files section here for that purpose. I am currently working with MSN to move all of the content of this MSN group to Multiply to save all of the good articles since the original owners of this MSN group abandoned it several years ago but there are a lot of good articles on the group. If MSN doesn't make me an owner/manager in order to move the articles to Multiply, then I'll copy all of the articles onto my blog... God, I hope MSN lets me do it the simple way. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 3:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wtf! Well if I'm not mistaken h2o2 is peroxide and is and absolute no go in a fish tank. Also how long had your tank been setup prior to putting fish in it? Also 2 hours is a long time for fish to be stuck in a bag, oxygen in the water should be gone by that time and the fish are trapped in a bag and looking at freedom. So my guess is the stress of the move and being trapped in the bag seriously stressed the fish out. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I bought new fish. 6 serpe tetra, 2 male fancy, 1 female fancy guppy. > Just about all died over night in my 10 gal q tank. The only one that > is still left is the female fancy. I cannot understand why. I used > prime, added an air stone, the tank is at 79 (but 76.8 this morning..I > don't see how that could have done it) and they were floating in the > bag for 2 hours before I released them. My ph out of the tap is 7.8. > There is no ammonia. I thoroughly rinsed the tank and then I sanitised > the tank with 3% h2o2. I know there wasn't enough h2o2 to make then > sick (maybe an ounce was used cuz I used a spray bottle to mist the > tank.) since the h2o2 had plenty of time to break down into oxygen and > water before they were introduced. > > The first fish to start 2 die was a sepre. It started to act drunk. > It would swim around and then sink like a rock. It would start > swimming again and then fall over and sink. Then it started to drift > with the current on its side with the current before it swam again. > This behavior started with in 1 hour of release. I didn't get to see > the fates of the other fish, but I imagine they were the same. > > Your thoughts please > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 4:35:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32633	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank

I'm glad you rescued them but... You are going to need a much larger tank than a 10G. What size tank was in the trailer? While you are keeping them in the 10G, you should probably do daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes). How big are the goldfish? Do you have any idea how old they are? Are they fancy goldfish (round bodied, long fins, etc.) or Common/Comet type goldfish (long bodied with either shorter fins or longer fins)? DO NOT add any more fish since the 10G is already severely overstocked with three goldfish in it. Fancy goldfish need at least 30G per fish and long-bodied goldfish need at least 50G per fish. I know this is a shocker but it's the truth. All of them pictures you see of goldfish in small tanks or bowls are just temporary death traps for the fish unless frequent PWC's are made to keep up the water quality. Check out my Goldfish Care sheet on my blog for lots more info. Did you know that goldfish should live to well over 10-15 years for fancies and well over 25 years for long-bodied? The world record right now is 43 years old. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sexylady Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank I just rescued 3 gold fish that were in a fairly large tank in a trailer i am hoping to buy with my bf. The previous tenant left them behind. I took those three as they were swimming very slowly and lethargically. I now have them in a 10 gallon aquarium and since i brought them to where i am staying they have perked up real good. I am feeding them 2x a day and plan on getting a bottom feeder as the last time i had any fish what so ever I had a tendency to over feed the fish. What other kinds of food do I need to feed them besides the dried flakes? or are they enough? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 4:42:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32634	From: danf2346	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: african dwarf frogs

I just introduced 3 african dwarf frogs into my 20 gallon community tank. I have lots of nice hiding spots for them, maybe too many! I hardly ever see them, even when feeding. I am concerned that they may not be eating. I have been feeding the fish the same as I was, which includes different variations of flakes, dried daphnia, dried bloodworms. When I purchased the frogs, I was worried about them maybe not getting enough food in my tank. When I feed the fish, it is a frenzy in there!lol Not much of anything makes it to the bottom of the tank, therefore I bought some shrimp pellets that go straight to the bottom in hopes that the shrimp would be for the frogs. Well... The fish go after it, and before the frogs even find it, its already gobbled up. I would really appreciate some suggestions on how to know if my frogs are getting enough food, since I hardly see them unless they are coming up for air.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32635	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank

not sure on the age of fish. they seem to be the plain type. The tank that they were in is the shape of a stop sign. So am guessing maybe a 20 gal tank not sure am much better at guessing the retanglar shapes. I plan on doing pwc's once a week.  will do more after we move as the water where i am at now I have to filter it before using it as it has a lot of iron in it. Reason for 10 gal tank is that it is all i can afford at the moment.  I plan on getting a larger one when i can afford to.  I still have yet to get plants for the tank and maybe a ceramic statue of some kind.   As for food would just dry flakes be enough or should i suppliment the flakes with dried blood worms? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 5:42 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank I'm glad you rescued them but... You are going to need a much larger tank than a 10G. What size tank was in the trailer? While you are keeping them in the 10G, you should probably do daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes). How big are the goldfish? Do you have any idea how old they are? Are they fancy goldfish (round bodied, long fins, etc.) or Common/Comet type goldfish (long bodied with either shorter fins or longer fins)? DO NOT add any more fish since the 10G is already severely overstocked with three goldfish in it. Fancy goldfish need at least 30G per fish and long-bodied goldfish need at least 50G per fish. I know this is a shocker but it's the truth. All of them pictures you see of goldfish in small tanks or bowls are just temporary death traps for the fish unless frequent PWC's are made to keep up the water quality. Check out my Goldfish Care sheet on my blog for lots more info. Did you know that goldfish should live to well over 10-15 years for fancies and well over 25 years for long-bodied? The world record right now is 43 years old. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sexylady Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank I just rescued 3 gold fish that were in a fairly large tank in a trailer i am hoping to buy with my bf. The previous tenant left them behind. I took those three as they were swimming very slowly and lethargically. I now have them in a 10 gallon aquarium and since i brought them to where i am staying they have perked up real good. I am feeding them 2x a day and plan on getting a bottom feeder as the last time i had any fish what so ever I had a tendency to over feed the fish. What other kinds of food do I need to feed them besides the dried flakes? or are they enough? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 4:42:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32636	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: african dwarf frogs

From what I've read, they are mostly carnivores. You could try Algae thins, about dime size so your other fish shouldn't be able to eat them and it takes them a while to dissolve so the frogs would have time to find them. Feed these at the same time as all the floating stuff so the fish are busy with the food at the top. Always feed them at the same place once you get them eating so they'll know where to look. I read they aren't very good foragers. Other ideas are live aquatic worms or pieces of earthworms... once you get them eating. You don't want the pieces fouling your water unless you have other carnivorous fish too. This page on feeding/housing http://aquaticfrogs.tripod.com/id13.html (and the main site http://aquaticfrogs.tripod.com/index.html) has a lot of good info but I haven't seen any experienced ADF keepers vet the site completely so check things out if you aren't sure of the info. Avoid freeze dried foods unless you re-hydrate them by soaking them in a spoonful of tank water first. The frogs like bloodworms but if they eat the freeze dried ones, they can cause digestive blockage when they rehydrate inside the frog.. or fish too. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of danf2346 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] african dwarf frogs I just introduced 3 african dwarf frogs into my 20 gallon community tank. I have lots of nice hiding spots for them, maybe too many! I hardly ever see them, even when feeding. I am concerned that they may not be eating. I have been feeding the fish the same as I was, which includes different variations of flakes, dried daphnia, dried bloodworms. When I purchased the frogs, I was worried about them maybe not getting enough food in my tank. When I feed the fish, it is a frenzy in there!lol Not much of anything makes it to the bottom of the tank, therefore I bought some shrimp pellets that go straight to the bottom in hopes that the shrimp would be for the frogs. Well... The fish go after it, and before the frogs even find it, its already gobbled up. I would really appreciate some suggestions on how to know if my frogs are getting enough food, since I hardly see them unless they are coming up for air. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 6:37:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32637	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank

Check out your local FreeCycle.org Yahoo Group to try and find free stuff.. and more tanks. Even if you had to have three 10G tanks (often found free on FreeCycle), that would be much better than three goldfish in a single 10G tank. Other places to check are the Free section on Craigslist.org and the Pets section on Craigslist. That Hex tank could be much larger than you think as far as water volume. Can you get the owner of that house to let you take the Hex tank? I can't imagine them wanting a funky tank in the place anyhow. It might have filter system, etc. that you could use also. For commons, dry flakes are OK but try to buy a better brand than just Tetra or something like that. Those are pretty crappy ingredients in them. If you have a PetsMart nearby, they carry the Omega One brand which is one of the best out there but are still affordable. Go to PetsMart.com first and print the pages of the items you are interested in as the local stores will match their online prices if you bring the page. If you have left over bloodworms, it's OK to feed them once in a while but rehydrate them first by letting them soak a few minutes in a spoonful of tank water. I wouldn't buy bloodworms for goldfish though since goldfish need more veggies in their diet. One of the cheapest (yet good) foods that I feed mine are various frozen veggies. I use to keep just green peas and zucchini slices in my freezer but recently one of my evacuating neighbors (Hurricane Gustav) gave me their frozen goods and I've been feeding the mixed vegetables to mine and they eat them all... although they eat the carrot pieces last. LOL A 1 lb. bag of frozen mixed veggies costs about $2.00 and will last a long time. Of course, feed them the good Omega One flakes or pellets too for a varied diet. I need to add the Feeding Section to my blog article but I reference so many other decent care sheets that have all that info on them already so I just took a shortcut on feeding. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 6:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank not sure on the age of fish. they seem to be the plain type. The tank that they were in is the shape of a stop sign. So am guessing maybe a 20 gal tank not sure am much better at guessing the retanglar shapes. I plan on doing pwc's once a week. will do more after we move as the water where i am at now I have to filter it before using it as it has a lot of iron in it. Reason for 10 gal tank is that it is all i can afford at the moment. I plan on getting a larger one when i can afford to. I still have yet to get plants for the tank and maybe a ceramic statue of some kind. As for food would just dry flakes be enough or should i suppliment the flakes with dried blood worms? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 5:42 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank I'm glad you rescued them but... You are going to need a much larger tank than a 10G. What size tank was in the trailer? While you are keeping them in the 10G, you should probably do daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes). How big are the goldfish? Do you have any idea how old they are? Are they fancy goldfish (round bodied, long fins, etc.) or Common/Comet type goldfish (long bodied with either shorter fins or longer fins)? DO NOT add any more fish since the 10G is already severely overstocked with three goldfish in it. Fancy goldfish need at least 30G per fish and long-bodied goldfish need at least 50G per fish. I know this is a shocker but it's the truth. All of them pictures you see of goldfish in small tanks or bowls are just temporary death traps for the fish unless frequent PWC's are made to keep up the water quality. Check out my Goldfish Care sheet on my blog for lots more info. Did you know that goldfish should live to well over 10-15 years for fancies and well over 25 years for long-bodied? The world record right now is 43 years old. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sexylady Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank I just rescued 3 gold fish that were in a fairly large tank in a trailer i am hoping to buy with my bf. The previous tenant left them behind. I took those three as they were swimming very slowly and lethargically. I now have them in a 10 gallon aquarium and since i brought them to where i am staying they have perked up real good. I am feeding them 2x a day and plan on getting a bottom feeder as the last time i had any fish what so ever I had a tendency to over feed the fish. What other kinds of food do I need to feed them besides the dried flakes? or are they enough? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 4:42:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 6:39:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 6:53:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32638	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Once again I must agree.� And double check on writing down the names but with Wally-World----------------------who knows. � Got the digital fired up and will try to take some photo�s.� A brief description? These are very small fish with thin bodies very similar to the Neon Tetra�s but they have a bright �orangeish red line that runs the length of their bodies and a small red dot or glow just above the eye. � Does any of that ring any bells for someone? � Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 5:06 PM LOL... NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, trust a pet store to have the fish properly labeled... nor 95% of the other info they might give out. LOL Even LFS' have problems some times but pet stores, wally-world pet depts, etc. are not the place to look for proper information. My suggestion for future purchases. Look at the fish in the tanks first, write down the names they have them labeled with. Go home and do a little research to verify BEFORE buying. Hopefully you didn't buy a school of Pacu's or Arowana's... but at least you wouldn't have to worry about them pipes leaking in your basement since you'll have to turn it into a fish tank. LOL Here are some other "Red-Eyed Tetra" or "Redeyed Tetra" or "Red Eye Tetra" profiles but they all match the Pictures link on the Mongabay profile. http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=10674 http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ tet-rede. htm http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .php http://www.elmersaq uarium.com/ 10tetra_redeye. htm Now, on a side note, on one of the tanks I adopted/saved back in 2005, pre-Katrina, I got some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that had red eyes so check out the images of them on the net to see if maybe that is what you have. Here's a decent pic of one of them. http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_buenosm. php Note that these fish (and the Red-Eyed Tetra probably get too large... close to 3" each) for a 10G tank or smaller tanks since they should be kept in schools of six, that's about three too many for a 10G tank. One of the weird things my Albino Buenos Aires Tetras would do is get in a school in the outflow of the filter and swim against the current, kind of hovering in place while they were actually swimming quite rapidly... almost like one of them new-fangled indoor swimming pools where the water flows from end to end while the swimmer stays in place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Len, They gots the names wrong! Even the common names! Whatever the fish is that I have it ain't what they have! Might take a few days here but I'm going to try too post pictures. Its the only clear way to ID themn properly. Darn Wally-World! Thanks again for the corrected link, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 4:06:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32639	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Lighting

I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not be enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass hood as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL bulbs (one on each side of the tank). Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or should I look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32640	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting

I think that should be enough. It's over 2 watts per gallon.. 2.36 WPG to be exact. I'm not sure about the Coralife bulbs though... maybe one of the plant experts would know more about this bulb and it's FW plant compatibility... this is for a FW tank.. right? Were you planning on an advanced tank with CO2 injection, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 6:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not be enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass hood as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL bulbs (one on each side of the tank). Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or should I look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 7:18:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32641	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Bill's Fish?

I just posed two pictures of the Mystery Tetra's.  "A" & "B".   They are awaiting Modertor approval.   Album title is "Bill's Fish"   help ID'ing??   Bill   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32642	From: harry perry	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care but your live plants will. If you have or are planning to have live plants go here  http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live plants. Harry --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not be enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass hood as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL bulbs (one on each side of the tank). Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or should I look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32643	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting

No they are all very easy to care for plants that require minimal additives if any. But yes it is a freshwater tank. The bulb is supposedly for FW plants as well, but not sure how good it is. According to the website; "Each Aqualight fixture provides more than twice the light output than normal output fluorescent light fixtures of comparable size." I currently have a regular fluorescent light fixture with 2, 18" bulbs, I'm sure this will at least be a great improvement to what I have. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I think that should be enough. It's over 2 watts per gallon.. 2.36 WPG to > be exact. I'm not sure about the Coralife bulbs though... maybe one of the > plant experts would know more about this bulb and it's FW plant > compatibility... this is for a FW tank.. right? > > Were you planning on an advanced tank with CO2 injection, etc.? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 6:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not be > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > hood as > well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL bulbs > (one on > each side of the tank). > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or should I > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 7:18:32 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32644	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??

OK Bill!! � Here is my opinion on UGF. I used them years ago and hated them. The tubes were not meant for detrius to be drawn up them. Like Ray has already pointed out they were used to pull water up, thereby creating a vacuum that was filled by water being drawn thru the gravel. � Mulm (detrius)��bullt up under the plates. In theory bacteria was supposed to take care of it, but in practice there were many spots that it just built up. Several times a year I would have to remove the gravel to one side and pull the plates out and clean them. � In theory you used the gravel as your filter media, but in practice it was a dirty system. � It was a pain and I would not even attempt it today. � John in Nevada --- On Thu, 11/6/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:16 AM There�s seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further.. Are you folks using them?� With power heads? � Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now.� Not wishing to do a setup twice I�d like to know; Under gravel�s yes or no.� Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used. � Your comments please, in short:� �Whatcha Think�? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32645	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting

You may end up with too much light then. I have two 40W 4' tubes (just the regular Daylight fluorescent bulbs that I got at Wal-mart) on my 65G and it's a LOT of light for my tank and for my easy to grow plants and I have quite a lot in my tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting No they are all very easy to care for plants that require minimal additives if any. But yes it is a freshwater tank. The bulb is supposedly for FW plants as well, but not sure how good it is. According to the website; "Each Aqualight fixture provides more than twice the light output than normal output fluorescent light fixtures of comparable size." I currently have a regular fluorescent light fixture with 2, 18" bulbs, I'm sure this will at least be a great improvement to what I have. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I think that should be enough. It's over 2 watts per gallon.. 2.36 WPG > to be exact. I'm not sure about the Coralife bulbs though... maybe one > of the plant experts would know more about this bulb and it's FW plant > compatibility... this is for a FW tank.. right? > > Were you planning on an advanced tank with CO2 injection, etc.? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 6:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not be > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > hood as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > bulbs (one on each side of the tank). > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or should > I look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 > 7:18:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 7:29:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 7:42:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32646	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as we have very soft water here. I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. Amber harry perry wrote: > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care but > your live plants will. > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live plants. > > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not be > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass hood > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL bulbs > > (one on each side of the tank). > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or should I > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32647	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish?

Based on the below description that Bill gave me in an off-list email, I did a Google search for - neon tetra like with orange stripe - and found Mongabay's page http://fish.mongabay.com/characinae.htm and then using IE's "Find Text" and found - orange line - listed only one place on the page.. for the Flag Tetra. Here is a copy/paste of the profile on them and this sounds like yours... including the red eye. Flag Tetra, Belgian Flag Tetra [Pictures] Hyphessobrycon heterorhabdus SYN: Tetragonopterus heterorhabdus, Hemigrammus heterorhabdus PD: Laterally compressed body. The back is brownish black to silver, while the belly is silver. A black band extends from the gill cover through the tail. Above is and iridescent green to yellow stripe. Above this stripe is an orange line. The iris is orange to red. SIZE: To 2" (5 cm) SS: Ulrey's Tetra ( Hemigrammus ulreyi), Black-lined Tetra ( Hyphessobrycon scholzei), Vilma's Tetra ( H. vilmae ) HAB: South America; Rio Tocantins, Lower Amazon S: middle TANK: 20" (50 cm) or 10 gallons (38 L). As for other Hyphessobrycon species; see the genus description. WATER: pH 5.5-7.5 (6.7), 5-15 dH (7), 72-82°F (22-28°C) SB: A peaceful, schooling fish that is recommended for a community tank. These fish only do well in groups, single specimen often die. SC: Tetras, Corydoras, Apistogramma , Loricarids, Discus, Colisa. FOOD: Flake; live; insect larvae, Brine Shrimp, Tubifex. SEX: Females are plumper and larger B: Difficult. Use a breeding tank with a pH of 6.0, a water hardness of 4 dH, and a temperature of 82°F (28°C) 100-200 eggs are laid and the fry hatch after 30-36 hours. The eggs are susceptible to fungus and the fry often get diseases. The young do not readily take food, but try crushed flake and small live foods. BP: 8. A challenging fish to breed. R: This fish was first introduced in 1910. DC: 4. The Flag Tetra is not as hardy as most other tetras, because it is susceptible to disease. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: William Z Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:36 PM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Re: Here's some pic's for them Len, They are Neon Tetras BUT what is the little fish swimming with them? Those one's with orange line. Check group site for more pictures. They got on quickly ---there's about half a dozen of them. Under the album Bill's Fish but some came right up on the opening screen. Bill On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <goldlenny@...> wrote: Those look like Neon Tetras.. but like you said, they are a little blurry. Look at pics of Neon Tetra's and see if that is what you have. If so, at least they stay small.. around an inch to inch and a half so that's better for a small tank... or more of them in a bigger tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: William Z Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 6:59 PM To: Lenny Vasbinder Subject: Here's some pic's for them Maybe some help??? It was hard enough to get them to stand still but when I asked them for a side or profile shot they threw a fit! Bill -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:09 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish? I just posed two pictures of the Mystery Tetra's. "A" & "B". They are awaiting Modertor approval. Album title is "Bill's Fish" help ID'ing?? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 7:51:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32648	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting

So you're running 80 watts of light, and this would be 65 watts on each side of the tank (130 total, but not sure how it's measured since it's compact fluorescent compared to a regular fluorescent), Anyone know how the 2 compare? is it basically double the output? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You may end up with too much light then. I have two 40W 4' tubes (just the > regular Daylight fluorescent bulbs that I got at Wal-mart) on my 65G and > it's a LOT of light for my tank and for my easy to grow plants and I have > quite a lot in my tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > No they are all very easy to care for plants that require minimal > additives > if any. But yes it is a freshwater tank. The bulb is supposedly for FW > plants as well, but not sure how good it is. According to the website; > "Each > Aqualight fixture provides more than twice the light output than normal > output fluorescent light fixtures of comparable size." I currently have a > regular fluorescent light fixture with 2, 18" > bulbs, I'm sure this will at least be a great improvement to what I have. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think that should be enough. It's over 2 watts per gallon.. 2.36 WPG > > to be exact. I'm not sure about the Coralife bulbs though... maybe one > > of the plant experts would know more about this bulb and it's FW plant > > compatibility... this is for a FW tank.. right? > > > > Were you planning on an advanced tank with CO2 injection, etc.? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 6:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not be > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > > hood as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > bulbs (one on each side of the tank). > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or should > > I look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > >> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 > > 7:18:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 7:29:39 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 7:42:07 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on if you catch sale prices or not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as we have very soft water here. I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. Amber harry perry wrote: > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care but > your live plants will. > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live plants. > > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not be > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass hood > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL bulbs > > (one on each side of the tank). > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or should I > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > Amber > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:00:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32650	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

From looking over the sight and comparing to the plants I have in my tank most are low light requirements, though I may have one plant that is a high light req. Hard to tell from just the pic though, but it looks like the green foxtail (cutleaf watermilfoil). Amber harry perry wrote: > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care but > your live plants will. > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live plants. > > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not be > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass hood > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL bulbs > > (one on each side of the tank). > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or should I > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32651	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??

Thanks John, � Good hearing from you again!� Listening and reading lately I must agree. UG�s have seen their day I�m afraid.� In their day the thinking was much the same as what you folks believe today about the Bio-Wheels on Marineland Filters. � I can say, in their defense, that I never had the trouble that most describe and my tanks were running continually for well over 10 years.� Proper vacuuming and PWC�s was done in much the same manner as today.� Cleaning under the plates was only ever cared out at a tank tear-down.� I never had blocked tubes or plates but then I never tried growing plants either. � You never mentioned the message a while back about �73� in it?� Sorry I thought you might have been into �Ham Radio� at some point from your sign on name"JOHN KD7POE� . � Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 8:30 PM OK Bill!! � Here is my opinion on UGF. I used them years ago and hated them. The tubes were not meant for detrius to be drawn up them. Like Ray has already pointed out they were used to pull water up, thereby creating a vacuum that was filled by water being drawn thru the gravel. � Mulm (detrius)��bullt up under the plates. In theory bacteria was supposed to take care of it, but in practice there were many spots that it just built up. Several times a year I would have to remove the gravel to one side and pull the plates out and clean them. � In theory you used the gravel as your filter media, but in practice it was a dirty system. � It was a pain and I would not even attempt it today. � John in Nevada --- On Thu, 11/6/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:16 AM There�s seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further... Are you folks using them?� With power heads? � Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now.� Not wishing to do a setup twice I�d like to know; Under gravel�s yes or no.� Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used. � Your comments please, in short:� �Whatcha Think�? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32652	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish?

I wonder if those fishes might be Glowlight tetras. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 5:51:12 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish? Based on the below description that Bill gave me in an off-list email, I did a Google search for - neon tetra like with orange stripe - and found Mongabay's page http://fish.mongabay.com/characinae.htm and then using IE's "Find Text" and found - orange line - listed only one place on the page.. for the Flag Tetra. Here is a copy/paste of the profile on them and this sounds like yours... including the red eye. Flag Tetra, Belgian Flag Tetra [Pictures] Hyphessobrycon heterorhabdus SYN: Tetragonopterus heterorhabdus, Hemigrammus heterorhabdus PD: Laterally compressed body. The back is brownish black to silver, while the belly is silver. A black band extends from the gill cover through the tail. Above is and iridescent green to yellow stripe. Above this stripe is an orange line. The iris is orange to red. SIZE: To 2" (5 cm) SS: Ulrey's Tetra ( Hemigrammus ulreyi), Black-lined Tetra ( Hyphessobrycon scholzei), Vilma's Tetra ( H. vilmae ) HAB: South America; Rio Tocantins, Lower Amazon S: middle TANK: 20" (50 cm) or 10 gallons (38 L). As for other Hyphessobrycon species; see the genus description. WATER: pH 5.5-7.5 (6.7), 5-15 dH (7), 72-82°F (22-28°C) SB: A peaceful, schooling fish that is recommended for a community tank. These fish only do well in groups, single specimen often die. SC: Tetras, Corydoras, Apistogramma , Loricarids, Discus, Colisa. FOOD: Flake; live; insect larvae, Brine Shrimp, Tubifex. SEX: Females are plumper and larger B: Difficult. Use a breeding tank with a pH of 6.0, a water hardness of 4 dH, and a temperature of 82°F (28°C) 100-200 eggs are laid and the fry hatch after 30-36 hours. The eggs are susceptible to fungus and the fry often get diseases. The young do not readily take food, but try crushed flake and small live foods. BP: 8. A challenging fish to breed. R: This fish was first introduced in 1910. DC: 4. The Flag Tetra is not as hardy as most other tetras, because it is susceptible to disease. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: William Z Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:36 PM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Re: Here's some pic's for them Len, They are Neon Tetras BUT what is the little fish swimming with them? Those one's with orange line. Check group site for more pictures. They got on quickly ---there's about half a dozen of them. Under the album Bill's Fish but some came right up on the opening screen. Bill On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < goldlenny@... > wrote: Those look like Neon Tetras.. but like you said, they are a little blurry. Look at pics of Neon Tetra's and see if that is what you have. If so, at least they stay small.. around an inch to inch and a half so that's better for a small tank... or more of them in a bigger tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com < http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: William Z Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 6:59 PM To: Lenny Vasbinder Subject: Here's some pic's for them Maybe some help??? It was hard enough to get them to stand still but when I asked them for a side or profile shot they threw a fit! Bill -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:09 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish? I just posed two pictures of the Mystery Tetra's. "A" & "B". They are awaiting Modertor approval. Album title is "Bill's Fish" help ID'ing?? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 7:51:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32653	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

I will agree with Lenny about the names. Depending on the store or even what part of the country you are common names change For example a black widow tetra or a black skirt tetra or just black tetra. Always try to get the scientific name. For example you could have a head light tail light tetra Hemigrammus ocellifer or even a rummy nose. Or get them direct from people that import them. Most usually know what they have and if they don't they won't mess around with making up a name. joey **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32654	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores are also very limited unless you want to wait for them to order something for you and barge it up, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you should > have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on if you catch > sale prices or not. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements and > don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as we have > very soft water here. > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of varying > sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I currently > have but > don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That is why I went for the > single bulb aqualight system at first, then stopped to wonder if it > would be > enough light still. > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care but > > your live plants will. > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live > plants. > > > > Harry > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not be > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass hood > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL bulbs > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or should I > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > Amber > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:00:01 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32655	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Bill's Fish

I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has generously included them on the photo page.  They are also in the album titled Bill's Fish.   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always helpful. Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores are also very limited unless you want to wait for them to order something for you and barge it up, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you > should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on > if you catch sale prices or not. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements > and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as > we have very soft water here. > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That > is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then > stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care > > but your live plants will. > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live > plants. > > > > Harry > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not > > be > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > > hood > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > bulbs > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or > > should I > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > Amber > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:22:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32657	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

Did you look at the pictures of the Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I posted links to earlier. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the album titled Bill's Fish. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:23:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32658	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't as dark on your tetra's. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the > album titled Bill's Fish. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32659	From: harry perry	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: U.G.F./Seems to me........

A high maintenance system. How it is suppose to work and how it works are two entirely different things. I like planted tanks,so, you can see the U.G.F. isn't the ideal system for me. Also, over the years, there has been some evidence of deadly gases building under the plate and when the gravel is disturbed the gases are released and kill fish. Some folks love them. It depends on how your tank is set up. I like my tanks as "natural" as possible. I would suspect the filter would take a lot of the nutrients I need for my plants out of the gravel. Just my take on this. Harry --- On Sat, 11/8/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 8:30 PM OK Bill!! � Here is my opinion on UGF. I used them years ago and hated them. The tubes were not meant for detrius to be drawn up them. Like Ray has already pointed out they were used to pull water up, thereby creating a vacuum that was filled by water being drawn thru the gravel. � Mulm (detrius)��bullt up under the plates. In theory bacteria was supposed to take care of it, but in practice there were many spots that it just built up. Several times a year I would have to remove the gravel to one side and pull the plates out and clean them. � In theory you used the gravel as your filter media, but in practice it was a dirty system. � It was a pain and I would not even attempt it today. � John in Nevada --- On Thu, 11/6/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:16 AM There�s seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further.. Are you folks using them?� With power heads? � Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now.� Not wishing to do a setup twice I�d like to know; Under gravel�s yes or no.� Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used. � Your comments please, in short:� �Whatcha Think�? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32660	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank

that I plan on doing. is going to freecyle. and seeing if i can get a 30 gal or even 20 gal tank and put 2 in if its 20 gal and leave one in the 10 need to do it a bit at a time though -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 7:53 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank Check out your local FreeCycle.org Yahoo Group to try and find free stuff.. and more tanks. Even if you had to have three 10G tanks (often found free on FreeCycle), that would be much better than three goldfish in a single 10G tank. Other places to check are the Free section on Craigslist.org and the Pets section on Craigslist. That Hex tank could be much larger than you think as far as water volume. Can you get the owner of that house to let you take the Hex tank? I can't imagine them wanting a funky tank in the place anyhow. It might have filter system, etc. that you could use also. For commons, dry flakes are OK but try to buy a better brand than just Tetra or something like that. Those are pretty crappy ingredients in them. If you have a PetsMart nearby, they carry the Omega One brand which is one of the best out there but are still affordable. Go to PetsMart.com first and print the pages of the items you are interested in as the local stores will match their online prices if you bring the page. If you have left over bloodworms, it's OK to feed them once in a while but rehydrate them first by letting them soak a few minutes in a spoonful of tank water. I wouldn't buy bloodworms for goldfish though since goldfish need more veggies in their diet. One of the cheapest (yet good) foods that I feed mine are various frozen veggies. I use to keep just green peas and zucchini slices in my freezer but recently one of my evacuating neighbors (Hurricane Gustav) gave me their frozen goods and I've been feeding the mixed vegetables to mine and they eat them all... although they eat the carrot pieces last. LOL A 1 lb. bag of frozen mixed veggies costs about $2.00 and will last a long time. Of course, feed them the good Omega One flakes or pellets too for a varied diet. I need to add the Feeding Section to my blog article but I reference so many other decent care sheets that have all that info on them already so I just took a shortcut on feeding. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 6:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank not sure on the age of fish. they seem to be the plain type. The tank that they were in is the shape of a stop sign. So am guessing maybe a 20 gal tank not sure am much better at guessing the retanglar shapes. I plan on doing pwc's once a week. will do more after we move as the water where i am at now I have to filter it before using it as it has a lot of iron in it. Reason for 10 gal tank is that it is all i can afford at the moment. I plan on getting a larger one when i can afford to. I still have yet to get plants for the tank and maybe a ceramic statue of some kind. As for food would just dry flakes be enough or should i suppliment the flakes with dried blood worms? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 5:42 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank I'm glad you rescued them but... You are going to need a much larger tank than a 10G. What size tank was in the trailer? While you are keeping them in the 10G, you should probably do daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes). How big are the goldfish? Do you have any idea how old they are? Are they fancy goldfish (round bodied, long fins, etc.) or Common/Comet type goldfish (long bodied with either shorter fins or longer fins)? DO NOT add any more fish since the 10G is already severely overstocked with three goldfish in it. Fancy goldfish need at least 30G per fish and long-bodied goldfish need at least 50G per fish. I know this is a shocker but it's the truth. All of them pictures you see of goldfish in small tanks or bowls are just temporary death traps for the fish unless frequent PWC's are made to keep up the water quality. Check out my Goldfish Care sheet on my blog for lots more info. Did you know that goldfish should live to well over 10-15 years for fancies and well over 25 years for long-bodied? The world record right now is 43 years old. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sexylady Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] I am new here and have a question on the care of a tank I just rescued 3 gold fish that were in a fairly large tank in a trailer i am hoping to buy with my bf. The previous tenant left them behind. I took those three as they were swimming very slowly and lethargically. I now have them in a 10 gallon aquarium and since i brought them to where i am staying they have perked up real good. I am feeding them 2x a day and plan on getting a bottom feeder as the last time i had any fish what so ever I had a tendency to over feed the fish. What other kinds of food do I need to feed them besides the dried flakes? or are they enough? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 4:42:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 6:39:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 6:53:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

Yep, Amber. They sure do. I've never owned Glow-Light Tetras but they actually look like mini-me's of the Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I did have except mine had really red eyes. Here's a couple of other pics/profiles for comparison. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d.html http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php I like that website "ThatFishPlace" (the sister site to ThatPetPlace) but I'm disappointed in their listing for the Glow-Light Tetra... partly because they spell it Glo-lite but mostly since they do not have a Latin name for the fish on their listing. This is how there is so much confusion on common names and folks not knowing what they are buying. And many folks might think they are buying Glofish which is the trademarked name for the genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. A Google search on "glo-lite tetra" found only 323 hits. A Google search on "glow-light tetra" found 3,160 hits... 10 times more. A Google on the Latin name, "Hemigrammus erythrozonus", found 38,600 hits... 100 times more than the mis-named "glo-lite". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't as dark on your tetra's. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the album > titled Bill's Fish. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:42:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32662	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

Yes I agree, a lot of their items don't have enough information on them (even on their pet site not the live fish site). I wish I could have live fish shipped here, but since it takes 2 days for overnight service no fish places will usually ship here :( So I have to make do with the selection at my LFS. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yep, Amber. They sure do. I've never owned Glow-Light Tetras but they > actually look like mini-me's of the Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I did > have except mine had really red eyes. Here's a couple of other > pics/profiles for comparison. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d.html> > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > > I like that website "ThatFishPlace" (the sister site to ThatPetPlace) but > I'm disappointed in their listing for the Glow-Light Tetra... partly > because > they spell it Glo-lite but mostly since they do not have a Latin name for > the fish on their listing. This is how there is so much confusion on > common > names and folks not knowing what they are buying. And many folks might > think they are buying Glofish which is the trademarked name for the > genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. > > A Google search on "glo-lite tetra" found only 323 hits. A Google > search on > "glow-light tetra" found 3,160 hits... 10 times more. A Google on the > Latin > name, "Hemigrammus erythrozonus", found 38,600 hits... 100 times more than > the mis-named "glo-lite". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > > They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't > as dark > on your tetra's. > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > > > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the album > > titled Bill's Fish. > > > > Bill > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:42:19 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32663	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

It sounds like you should be happy you even have an LFS... of course, have you tried ordering from Russia? I hear it's closer. ;-) (Go Sarah 2012) :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish Yes I agree, a lot of their items don't have enough information on them (even on their pet site not the live fish site). I wish I could have live fish shipped here, but since it takes 2 days for overnight service no fish places will usually ship here :( So I have to make do with the selection at my LFS. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yep, Amber. They sure do. I've never owned Glow-Light Tetras but they > actually look like mini-me's of the Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I > did have except mine had really red eyes. Here's a couple of other > pics/profiles for comparison. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d > .html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > d.html> > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > d.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > d.html> > > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > > > I like that website "ThatFishPlace" (the sister site to ThatPetPlace) > but I'm disappointed in their listing for the Glow-Light Tetra... > partly because they spell it Glo-lite but mostly since they do not > have a Latin name for the fish on their listing. This is how there is > so much confusion on common names and folks not knowing what they are > buying. And many folks might think they are buying Glofish which is > the trademarked name for the genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. > > A Google search on "glo-lite tetra" found only 323 hits. A Google > search on "glow-light tetra" found 3,160 hits... 10 times more. A > Google on the Latin name, "Hemigrammus erythrozonus", found 38,600 > hits... 100 times more than the mis-named "glo-lite". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > > They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't > as dark on your tetra's. > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> >> > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > > > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the > > album titled Bill's Fish. > > > > Bill > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:55:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32664	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Sounds like a glow light tetra from the description_Glowlight tetra_ (http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/tetrafish/glowlighttetra.php) Joey **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32665	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

LOL yes, I am lucky I have a LFS, most of them go out of business sooner or later, this one has been in town a couple of years so far with success. They have their fish sent in on Alaska Airlines. The main issue they have is with sensitive fish, they don't like the bumpy traveling, such as gourami's, most of their gourami's tend to die soon after arriving. I recently tried to add two more dwarf gourami's to my tank thinking they were females, and turns out they must be males or my 2 males are too territorial to have any females in the tank, they picked on them so much I had to take them back out right away, one died and I have 1 in with my betta for now until I figure something else out. The betta is leaving him alone so it seems okay for now. May have to bring him back to the store or something. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It sounds like you should be happy you even have an LFS... of course, have > you tried ordering from Russia? I hear it's closer. ;-) (Go Sarah > 2012) :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > > Yes I agree, a lot of their items don't have enough information on them > (even on their pet site not the live fish site). I wish I could have live > fish shipped here, but since it takes 2 days for overnight service no fish > places will usually ship here :( So I have to make do with the > selection at > my LFS. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yep, Amber. They sure do. I've never owned Glow-Light Tetras but they > > actually look like mini-me's of the Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I > > did have except mine had really red eyes. Here's a couple of other > > pics/profiles for comparison. > > > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d> > > .html > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1> > > d.html> > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1> > > d.html > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1> > > d.html> > > > > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php>> > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php>> > > > > > I like that website "ThatFishPlace" (the sister site to ThatPetPlace) > > but I'm disappointed in their listing for the Glow-Light Tetra... > > partly because they spell it Glo-lite but mostly since they do not > > have a Latin name for the fish on their listing. This is how there is > > so much confusion on common names and folks not knowing what they are > > buying. And many folks might think they are buying Glofish which is > > the trademarked name for the genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. > > > > A Google search on "glo-lite tetra" found only 323 hits. A Google > > search on "glow-light tetra" found 3,160 hits... 10 times more. A > > Google on the Latin name, "Hemigrammus erythrozonus", found 38,600 > > hits... 100 times more than the mis-named "glo-lite". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > > > > They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't > > as dark on your tetra's. > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> >> > > > > Amber > > > > bill1433 wrote: > > > > > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > > > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the > > > album titled Bill's Fish. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:55:07 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32666	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

AGE???? � I think we have a winner here with this photo but my fish are much smaller, maybe a 1/2 " at best.� They do all stay together (with the neon�s) in one bunch.� But the age difference may be a big factor, as with so many fish, it could be the reason for the slight difference in the photo�s.� Luckily the parameters to keep them seem to be a close enough match for my setup.� Most fry, or teen-age cichlids seldom look like the adult versions.� Thanks, � Bill � --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 9:22 PM They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't as dark on your tetra's. http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 19942/product. web Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the > album titled Bill's Fish. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32667	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

The last time I looked they did have the fixtures but not dual lighting ones, just ones that hold 1 fluorescent bulb. I would have to special order one that holds 2 bulbs or more, and yes we have a very small walmart, my husband actually works there in the Electronics dept (Manager). And yes, I live on an island in Alaska, things are a bit limited here, that is why I went for ordering a light online. I'm thinking now that I've done more research on my plants that I may be just fine, the light should be producing a "moderate" amount from what I've read, my foxtail may not do so good though. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? I > forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always helpful. > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop hardware > should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores > are also > very limited unless you want to wait for them to order something for > you and > barge it up, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you > > should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on > > if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements > > and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as > > we have very soft water here. > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I > > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That > > is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then > > stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > Amber > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care > > > but your live plants will. > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live > > plants. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not > > > be > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > > > hood > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > > bulbs > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or > > > should I > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:22:12 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32668	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

If you go to my "Bill's Fish" album over at group and open it, I just posted the closest photo labeled the winner------------------Glow Light Tetra. � Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:22 PM AGE???? � I think we have a winner here with this photo but my fish are much smaller, maybe a 1/2 " at best.� They do all stay together (with the neon�s) in one bunch.� But the age difference may be a big factor, as with so many fish, it could be the reason for the slight difference in the photo�s.� Luckily the parameters to keep them seem to be a close enough match for my setup.� Most fry, or teen-age cichlids seldom look like the adult versions.� Thanks, � Bill � --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 9:22 PM They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't as dark on your tetra's. http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 19942/product. web Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the > album titled Bill's Fish. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32669	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

You have a lower PH too right bill? I thought I read that your PH is 6, which is close to what mine is, mine is around 6.2 most of the time. Most fish that aren't too sensitive or hard to keep can acclimate to a slightly lower PH, my tetra's are doing just fine (flame tetra's) in their lower PH than what is recommended online. And yes, younger age would explain why your tetra's aren't as dark, my flame tetra's are supposed to darken in red with age as well and they are still pretty young and only a pale red in color. Amber bill1433 wrote: > AGE???? > > I think we have a winner here with this photo but my fish are much smaller, maybe a 1/2 " at best. They do all stay together (with the neon’s) in one bunch. But the age difference may be a big factor, as with so many fish, it could be the reason for the slight difference in the photo’s. Luckily the parameters to keep them seem to be a close enough match for my setup. Most fry, or teen-age cichlids seldom look like the adult versions. Thanks, > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 9:22 PM > > > > > > > They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't as > dark on your tetra's. > http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 19942/product. web > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > >> I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has >> generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the >> album titled Bill's Fish. >> >> Bill >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32670	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: The Under Gravel Filter Question??

Oh Yes Bill I have a Ham Radio license, I am not very involved in Ham Radio these days have very little time for it, although I do have radios etc. � To be honest, I am very involved with the BPOE (Elks) and spend a lot of time involved with our Local Youth. � I am involved with Scholarships, and Student of the Month Awards, as well as serving as a PER (Past Exalted Ruler) and very active State and Lodge Officer. Sorry Guys for going off topic. � John in Nevada --- On Sat, 11/8/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 5:56 PM Thanks John, � Good hearing from you again!� Listening and reading lately I must agree. UG�s have seen their day I�m afraid.� In their day the thinking was much the same as what you folks believe today about the Bio-Wheels on Marineland Filters. � I can say, in their defense, that I never had the trouble that most describe and my tanks were running continually for well over 10 years.� Proper vacuuming and PWC�s was done in much the same manner as today.� Cleaning under the plates was only ever cared out at a tank tear-down.� I never had blocked tubes or plates but then I never tried growing plants either. � You never mentioned the message a while back about �73� in it?� Sorry I thought you might have been into �Ham Radio� at some point from your sign on name"JOHN KD7POE� . � Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 8:30 PM OK Bill!! � Here is my opinion on UGF. I used them years ago and hated them. The tubes were not meant for detrius to be drawn up them. Like Ray has already pointed out they were used to pull water up, thereby creating a vacuum that was filled by water being drawn thru the gravel. � Mulm (detrius)��bullt up under the plates. In theory bacteria was supposed to take care of it, but in practice there were many spots that it just built up. Several times a year I would have to remove the gravel to one side and pull the plates out and clean them. � In theory you used the gravel as your filter media, but in practice it was a dirty system. � It was a pain and I would not even attempt it today. � John in Nevada --- On Thu, 11/6/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Under Gravel Filter Question?? To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:16 AM There�s seems to be a bit of talk today about these filters and I wonder if we could prevail upon some of the senior (Not age but Experience) members of this list to discuss this issue further... Are you folks using them?� With power heads? � Soon, I hope to be setting up something larger than the 5-gallon I have running now.� Not wishing to do a setup twice I�d like to know; Under gravel�s yes or no.� Of course, this is with the understanding that live plants will not be used. � Your comments please, in short:� �Whatcha Think�? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32671	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Here is a tome that is an "official" listing of common names for scientists: _Common and Scientific Names of Fishes from the United States, Canada, and Mexico_. This edition is put together by John S. Nelson. There is also another publication, but its title is lost to me right now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not LOL... NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, trust a pet store to have the fish properly labeled... nor 95% of the other info they might give out. LOL Even LFS' have problems some times but pet stores, wally-world pet depts, etc. are not the place to look for proper information. My suggestion for future purchases. Look at the fish in the tanks first, write down the names they have them labeled with. Go home and do a little research to verify BEFORE buying. Hopefully you didn't buy a school of Pacu's or Arowana's... but at least you wouldn't have to worry about them pipes leaking in your basement since you'll have to turn it into a fish tank. LOL Here are some other "Red-Eyed Tetra" or "Redeyed Tetra" or "Red Eye Tetra" profiles but they all match the Pictures link on the Mongabay profile. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_sanctaefilomenae.html http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=10674 http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/tet-rede.htm http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Moenkhausia_sanctaefilomenae.php http://www.elmersaquarium.com/10tetra_redeye.htm Now, on a side note, on one of the tanks I adopted/saved back in 2005, pre-Katrina, I got some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that had red eyes so check out the images of them on the net to see if maybe that is what you have. Here's a decent pic of one of them. http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_buenosm.php Note that these fish (and the Red-Eyed Tetra probably get too large... close to 3" each) for a 10G tank or smaller tanks since they should be kept in schools of six, that's about three too many for a 10G tank. One of the weird things my Albino Buenos Aires Tetras would do is get in a school in the outflow of the filter and swim against the current, kind of hovering in place while they were actually swimming quite rapidly... almost like one of them new-fangled indoor swimming pools where the water flows from end to end while the swimmer stays in place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not Len, They gots the names wrong! Even the common names! Whatever the fish is that I have it ain't what they have! Might take a few days here but I'm going to try too post pictures. Its the only clear way to ID themn properly. Darn Wally-World! Thanks again for the corrected link, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32672	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish?

Bill, These are Glowlight (original spelling) Tetras, more recently spelled as "Glow-Light" Tetras (Hemigrammus erythrozonus), as Jackie and Joey stated. No "ifs," "ands" or "buts" about it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > I just posed two pictures of the Mystery Tetra's.  "A" & "B". >   > They are awaiting Modertor approval. >   > Album title is "Bill's Fish" >   > help ID'ing?? >   > Bill >   > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32673	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: wtf!

Chris, I KNOW I must not be reading this right, and still, I don't understand what you said you did. Are you saying that when you floated the bag for 2 hours, that you poked holes through it first? Please clarify this. Its a wonder that the bag continued floating it this case, but as it seemed to have done I would think that much (most) of the air in the bag must have escaped, leaving the bag barely floating with a very small amount of air barely bouying up the bag. As water is not circulating through this bag, the oxygen in this water would have soon been depleted and CO2 levels would have risen dramatically -- lowering the pH drastically -- along with ammonia levels building up. IF, by your description, this is what you did. If we can disregard this confusing comment of your "poking holes through the bag," let me add this. First of all, you should never rely on the LFS worker's test results as being the final parameters of water that will be bagged up, and that you will be carrying home to float in your aquarium until the temperature equalized -- and it has nothing to do with how knowledgeable this worker may be (although I might be suspect of many such workers knowledge). The water parameters of this small enclosed (bagged) amount of water can change drastically from the time you leave the store until the time you release the fish, due to these fishes' metabolic processes. While it will be helpful to know the water parameters at the store (for possible use as a comparison -- to the same water over time), you need to retest this water after floating the bag, upon opening it, as a result of what I've mentioned above. Although this water tested at the LFS may have been pH 8.1, with fish respiration and excretion over 2 hours, this same water may have been pH 6.6, as an example; as you see, the difference can be 1.2 or 1.4. Additionally, some LFS's will insert oxygen of the bag water, enabling the fish to last much longer in this enclosed environment, but most LFS's allow only for air to be trapped above the water in the bag, greatly reducing the time the fish can safely stay in these bags. It does not take 2 hours for the temperature of even a cup of water in a plastic bag to equalize its temperature with that of your tank water. It is not necessary to float the bag for any more than 20 minutes, maximum, if you prefer doing this (nothing wrong if not stretched out longer, but Lenny's method can work just as well when there is little temperature difference). After this periods, you need to acclimate the fish to any other parameter differences via the procedure Lenny has already outlined. Fish will constantly adjust to their environment. Normally, in the aquarium, with the water (parameters) remaining fairly constant, there is no further need for the fish to adjust, once they've become accustomed to this aquarium. In the environment of the more confined bag of water, which is changing parameters as a result of the fish in it, these fish WILL adjust to these changing conditions. If that means that the water has increased in an ammonia and/or CO2 content, these fishes' bloodstreams will have no alternative than to absorb a portion of this ammonia and CO2 in an amount approaching the solution percent of these elements in the water. As the CO2 will increase the acidity (carbonic acid) and reduce the pH, this ammonia (ammonium, under these conditions) will not affect the fish. Upon being released in your pH 7.8 (pH 8.0?) water, having ammonia already in their system and being suddenly exposed to alkaline conditions, this ammonia will become toxic -- something no one has considered in this thread. It will not be the build up of CO2 in this case that will do these fish in, as evidenced that they've remained alive up until tghis point. Their exposure once more to well oxygenated water will only serve to allow their blood streams to rid themselves of any excess CO2 and take on more oxygen, but ammonia build-ups, if any, will be toxic. On top of any pH differences, whether large or small -- and even in the absence of any ammonia build up -- you are not taking taking into account any possible differences in amounts of TDS (total dissolved solids)/GH, which can have a much greater detrimental effect on fish as it directly impacts the osmotic pressure of their environment. For this reason, and MAINLY for this reason (as opposed to only pH considerations) when otherwise unknown, you need to slowly acclimate the fish to their new water conditions using the method Lenny points out (swapping out water), either after equalizing (floating bag) the temperature for 20 minutes or while equalizing the temperature at this same time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > I didn't get a chance to read, but I poked holes through the bag this > time. I believe that should do it. > > I asked one of the workers what the ph is of the water and he tested > it with an API test. It read 8.1, but the area wasn't well light so it > may be less that that. My ph is between 7.8 and 8. Thats a .1 to .3 > difference if the reading was read right. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Most likely pH shock. > > > > You mention floating the bag for 2 hours but what was the water > parameters > > from the store water? Did you slowly add some of your water to the bag > > every 15 minutes? If you just floated them for 2 hours, then dumped or > > netted them into your tank, that is the problem. They likely > suffered pH > > shock, osmotic shock, etc... most likely pH shock which is quite often > > deadly to fish. > > > > Here is the page dealing with Acclimation from The Krib's online fish > > keeping tutorial. I've recommended these online fish keeping > tutorials that > > I have listed on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page. The below section is > > included in those tutorials. > > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-addfish.html#acclimation > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wtf! > > > > I bought new fish. 6 serpe tetra, 2 male fancy, 1 female fancy guppy. > > Just about all died over night in my 10 gal q tank. The only one that is > > still left is the female fancy. I cannot understand why. I used > prime, added > > an air stone, the tank is at 79 (but 76.8 this morning..I don't see > how that > > could have done it) and they were floating in the bag for 2 hours > before I > > released them. My ph out of the tap is 7.8. > > There is no ammonia. I thoroughly rinsed the tank and then I > sanitised the > > tank with 3% h2o2. I know there wasn't enough h2o2 to make then sick > (maybe > > an ounce was used cuz I used a spray bottle to mist the > > tank.) since the h2o2 had plenty of time to break down into oxygen > and water > > before they were introduced. > > > > The first fish to start 2 die was a sepre. It started to act drunk. > > It would swim around and then sink like a rock. It would start swimming > > again and then fall over and sink. Then it started to drift with the > current > > on its side with the current before it swam again. > > This behavior started with in 1 hour of release. I didn't get to see the > > fates of the other fish, but I imagine they were the same. > > > > Your thoughts please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081107-0, 11/07/2008 > > Tested on: 11/8/2008 10:08:14 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32674	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

We're working on the Ph.� Well water here that has been mixed with distilled to strat. Now we are just beginning to have fish on the well water by itself.� Doctoring some with soda.� My Ph at first measure was about 5.5.� But with help here trying to raise a bit.� In the meantime we are only working with a tiny 4-gallon hex and I don't want to kill any of my new friends either.� Bigger tank to 30 or 40 is in the works but beating the door down at craiglist but nothing yet.� Tight budget and trying to get what we want without another mortage or floor supports either! � Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:13 PM You have a lower PH too right bill? I thought I read that your PH is 6, which is close to what mine is, mine is around 6.2 most of the time. Most fish that aren't too sensitive or hard to keep can acclimate to a slightly lower PH, my tetra's are doing just fine (flame tetra's) in their lower PH than what is recommended online. And yes, younger age would explain why your tetra's aren't as dark, my flame tetra's are supposed to darken in red with age as well and they are still pretty young and only a pale red in color. Amber bill1433 wrote: > AGE???? > > I think we have a winner here with this photo but my fish are much smaller, maybe a 1/2 " at best. They do all stay together (with the neon�s) in one bunch. But the age difference may be a big factor, as with so many fish, it could be the reason for the slight difference in the photo�s. Luckily the parameters to keep them seem to be a close enough match for my setup. Most fry, or teen-age cichlids seldom look like the adult versions. Thanks, > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 9:22 PM > > > > > > > They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't as > dark on your tetra's. > http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 19942/product. web > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > >> I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has >> generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the >> album titled Bill's Fish. >> >> Bill >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32675	From: bill1433	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Thanks Steve,   But aside from learning the scientific names of the fish I'd love to be able to pronounce them properly. I think you'll agree that as far as the common names go; they almost always change by where your standing at the time!  People in some states don't call the same fish by the same name as other states.  Sometime it's worse than that ------------they don't call them by the same name from one town to another town!   when you can, good hearing from you,   Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:47 PM Here is a tome that is an "official" listing of common names for scientists: _Common and Scientific Names of Fishes from the United States, Canada, and Mexico_. This edition is put together by John S. Nelson. There is also another publication, but its title is lost to me right now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com[mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not LOL... NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, trust a pet store to have the fish properly labeled... nor 95% of the other info they might give out. LOL Even LFS' have problems some times but pet stores, wally-world pet depts, etc. are not the place to look for proper information. My suggestion for future purchases. Look at the fish in the tanks first, write down the names they have them labeled with. Go home and do a little research to verify BEFORE buying. Hopefully you didn't buy a school of Pacu's or Arowana's... but at least you wouldn't have to worry about them pipes leaking in your basement since you'll have to turn it into a fish tank. LOL Here are some other "Red-Eyed Tetra" or "Redeyed Tetra" or "Red Eye Tetra" profiles but they all match the Pictures link on the Mongabay profile. http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=10674 http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ tet-rede. htm http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .php http://www.elmersaq uarium.com/ 10tetra_redeye. htm Now, on a side note, on one of the tanks I adopted/saved back in 2005, pre-Katrina, I got some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that had red eyes so check out the images of them on the net to see if maybe that is what you have. Here's a decent pic of one of them. http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_buenosm. php Note that these fish (and the Red-Eyed Tetra probably get too large... close to 3" each) for a 10G tank or smaller tanks since they should be kept in schools of six, that's about three too many for a 10G tank. One of the weird things my Albino Buenos Aires Tetras would do is get in a school in the outflow of the filter and swim against the current, kind of hovering in place while they were actually swimming quite rapidly... almost like one of them new-fangled indoor swimming pools where the water flows from end to end while the swimmer stays in place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Len, They gots the names wrong! Even the common names! Whatever the fish is that I have it ain't what they have! Might take a few days here but I'm going to try too post pictures. Its the only clear way to ID themn properly. Darn Wally-World! Thanks again for the corrected link, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32676	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: african dwarf frogs

I never actively see my african dwarf frog eating either. I put in sinking carnivore pellets and the sinking "veggie rounds" from omega one. I also have just recently started feeding them frozen brine shrimp/mysis shrimp and bloodworms (I alternate them as treats). My frog seems to be just fine so far and I have had him for over a month now. He seems to get enough to eat that is left over after the other fish are done eating. He has also found a couple dead oto cats in the last month to snack on as well, so that might have helped ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > From what I've read, they are mostly carnivores. You could try Algae > thins, > about dime size so your other fish shouldn't be able to eat them and it > takes them a while to dissolve so the frogs would have time to find them. > Feed these at the same time as all the floating stuff so the fish are busy > with the food at the top. Always feed them at the same place once you get > them eating so they'll know where to look. I read they aren't very good > foragers. > > Other ideas are live aquatic worms or pieces of earthworms... once you get > them eating. You don't want the pieces fouling your water unless you have > other carnivorous fish too. > > This page on feeding/housing http://aquaticfrogs.tripod.com/id13.html > <http://aquaticfrogs.tripod.com/id13.html> (and > the main site http://aquaticfrogs.tripod.com/index.html > <http://aquaticfrogs.tripod.com/index.html>) has a lot of good > info but I haven't seen any experienced ADF keepers vet the site > completely > so check things out if you aren't sure of the info. Avoid freeze dried > foods unless you re-hydrate them by soaking them in a spoonful of tank > water > first. The frogs like bloodworms but if they eat the freeze dried ones, > they can cause digestive blockage when they rehydrate inside the frog.. or > fish too. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of danf2346 > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 6:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] african dwarf frogs > > I just introduced 3 african dwarf frogs into my 20 gallon community > tank. I > have lots of nice hiding spots for them, maybe too many! I hardly ever see > them, even when feeding. I am concerned that they may not be eating. I > have > been feeding the fish the same as I was, which includes different > variations > of flakes, dried daphnia, dried bloodworms. When I purchased the frogs, I > was worried about them maybe not getting enough food in my tank. When > I feed > the fish, it is a frenzy in there!lol Not much of anything makes it to the > bottom of the tank, therefore I bought some shrimp pellets that go > straight > to the bottom in hopes that the shrimp would be for the frogs. Well... The > fish go after it, and before the frogs even find it, its already > gobbled up. > I would really appreciate some suggestions on how to know if my frogs are > getting enough food, since I hardly see them unless they are coming up for > air. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 6:37:40 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32677	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double CFL's at 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I would only pay a little more than the light I already found on another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put in an order for. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? I > forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always helpful. > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop hardware > should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores > are also > very limited unless you want to wait for them to order something for > you and > barge it up, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you > > should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on > > if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements > > and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as > > we have very soft water here. > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I > > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That > > is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then > > stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > Amber > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care > > > but your live plants will. > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live > > plants. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not > > > be > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > > > hood > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > > bulbs > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or > > > should I > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:22:12 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32678	From: Lisa	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Dwarf cichlids

Hey you guys. What do you all think of my doing a dwarf cichlid tank for my 22gal? How easy are they to care for? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32679	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your description. If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray & Mike >   > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you two have been posting. >   > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize me, as they think I may have a treat for them. >   > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. >   > John in Nevada > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika), as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32680	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Fish are hard to photograph

Well I managed to get a few pictures of my fish (mostly at night under the Moonlight LED's), 3 of them as still waiting for approval but I got a really good one of my male Dwarf Flame Gourami and my yoyo loaches, and my baby gold severum is in the background. You can also see my glofish danio's, but those darn fish move so fast it's going to be near impossible for me to get a clear photo of them. I've come close so far but that's about it. I have my camera set on the fastest setting for capturing moving targets but the glofish are apparently too fast for my camera. The photos are all under "Amber Berglund" in the group photos, if anyone wants to see my pretty glowing fish :) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32681	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/8/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf cichlids

Real good choice if your water parameters allow. Most need soft water with a ph of 6.5 to 7.0. Kribensis are very colorful as are Rams. There are also some very easy to keep Apistogramma's. These fish are the biggest part of my fish room. You can check them out at these URL's . http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7778 http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/index.php http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/ If you would like further info or URL's, e mail me off list. Bill w.j.scott@... -------Original Message------- From: Lisa Date: 11/8/2008 10:52:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Dwarf cichlids Hey you guys. What do you all think of my doing a dwarf cichlid tank for my 22gal? How easy are they to care for? Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32682	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

HI  Ray!!   Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run.   75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago.   I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter.   My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80   I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes,   Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water.   Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 Common Pleco 1 about 8"   Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago.   Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day.   John in Nevada --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your description. If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > Hi Ray & Mike >   > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you two have been posting. >   > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize me, as they think I may have a treat for them. >   > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. >   > John in Nevada > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32683	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi John, Where are you located in Nevada? I am in Victorville, CA. On I-15 towards L.A. If you ever come down this way, drop me an e mail and stop in & say hello I am sure the wife would be glad to fix you a cuppa coffee. Bill -------Original Message------- From: JOHN KD7POE Date: 11/9/2008 1:55:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? HI Ray!! Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. 75 Gallon Tank - All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 Common Pleco 1 about 8" Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. John in Nevada --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your description. If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > Hi Ray & Mike > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you two have been posting. > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > John in Nevada > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32684	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, unless you have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one of the CFL's on each side so you still only have the total of 130 watts. And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing you mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total watts. If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total watts on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a LOT. I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of light, CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an abundance of algae. If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either have sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried about with even the current upgrade you are doing. I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email but didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or two 18" fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you leaving that light fixture on each day? For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 watts (1 WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total of 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, then 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If you left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling the lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't be immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would likely end up with algae. I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount of lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants and/or your other plants start growing faster, then you could leave the lights on longer, maybe increasing the time the lights are on by an hour each week or so, until you have them on 8 hours a day (more or less depending on how your tank and plants are doing). As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting on my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG now, I started getting algae until my plants took off better. Personally, I don't mind a little algae like some folks do so it was no big deal for me and I had just gotten a new little clown pleco so he needed the algae to eat anyhow. He is starting to get ahead of the algae growth now so I'll be extending the lighting time as he gets caught up completely. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double CFL's at 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I would only pay a little more than the light I already found on another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put in an order for. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? I > forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always helpful. > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop hardware > should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores > are also > very limited unless you want to wait for them to order something for > you and > barge it up, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you > > should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on > > if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements > > and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as > > we have very soft water here. > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I > > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That > > is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then > > stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > Amber > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care > > > but your live plants will. > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >> > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live > > plants. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not > > > be > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > > > hood > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > > bulbs > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or > > > should I > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 6:14:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Fish are hard to photograph

Our own \\Steve// did a long post on photographing fish a few years ago. Here's the link since I have it in my IE favorites folder. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13061 Here's a couple of others that I also have in that folder. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/photograp hy.htm http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/photography.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php Of course, if you just trained your fish to "strike-a-pose" whenever they see the camera, many of these articles would not be needed. ;-) Playing Madonna's "Vogue" might help them get in the mood. LOL On a side note, I just peeked at your pics and I think Bill would be jealous... although I see your GloFish Zebra Danio's didn't pose very well in most of the pics. You might have to crack the whip on them. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 1:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish are hard to photograph Well I managed to get a few pictures of my fish (mostly at night under the Moonlight LED's), 3 of them as still waiting for approval but I got a really good one of my male Dwarf Flame Gourami and my yoyo loaches, and my baby gold severum is in the background. You can also see my glofish danio's, but those darn fish move so fast it's going to be near impossible for me to get a clear photo of them. I've come close so far but that's about it. I have my camera set on the fastest setting for capturing moving targets but the glofish are apparently too fast for my camera. The photos are all under "Amber Berglund" in the group photos, if anyone wants to see my pretty glowing fish :) Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 6:25:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32686	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Bill, If you can get your hands on a copy of Innes' Exotic Aquarium Fishes 19th edition revised or earlier, the pronunciation of all scientific names used is given. From this you should be able to interpolate others that you may run across. Then, you can always keep in mind the Paul Loiselle statement, "He who speaks the name the loudest is the most correct." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not Thanks Steve,   But aside from learning the scientific names of the fish I'd love to be able to pronounce them properly. I think you'll agree that as far as the common names go; they almost always change by where your standing at the time!  People in some states don't call the same fish by the same name as other states.  Sometime it's worse than that ------------they don't call them by the same name from one town to another town!   when you can, good hearing from you,   Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:47 PM Here is a tome that is an "official" listing of common names for scientists: _Common and Scientific Names of Fishes from the United States, Canada, and Mexico_. This edition is put together by John S. Nelson. There is also another publication, but its title is lost to me right now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com[mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not LOL... NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, trust a pet store to have the fish properly labeled... nor 95% of the other info they might give out. LOL Even LFS' have problems some times but pet stores, wally-world pet depts, etc. are not the place to look for proper information. My suggestion for future purchases. Look at the fish in the tanks first, write down the names they have them labeled with. Go home and do a little research to verify BEFORE buying. Hopefully you didn't buy a school of Pacu's or Arowana's... but at least you wouldn't have to worry about them pipes leaking in your basement since you'll have to turn it into a fish tank. LOL Here are some other "Red-Eyed Tetra" or "Redeyed Tetra" or "Red Eye Tetra" profiles but they all match the Pictures link on the Mongabay profile. http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=10674 http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ tet-rede. htm http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .php http://www.elmersaq uarium.com/ 10tetra_redeye. htm Now, on a side note, on one of the tanks I adopted/saved back in 2005, pre-Katrina, I got some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that had red eyes so check out the images of them on the net to see if maybe that is what you have. Here's a decent pic of one of them. http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_buenosm. php Note that these fish (and the Red-Eyed Tetra probably get too large... close to 3" each) for a 10G tank or smaller tanks since they should be kept in schools of six, that's about three too many for a 10G tank. One of the weird things my Albino Buenos Aires Tetras would do is get in a school in the outflow of the filter and swim against the current, kind of hovering in place while they were actually swimming quite rapidly... almost like one of them new-fangled indoor swimming pools where the water flows from end to end while the swimmer stays in place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Len, They gots the names wrong! Even the common names! Whatever the fish is that I have it ain't what they have! Might take a few days here but I'm going to try too post pictures. Its the only clear way to ID themn properly. Darn Wally-World! Thanks again for the corrected link, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32687	From: harry perry	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

--- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:39 PM I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double CFL's at 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I would only pay a little more than the light I already found on another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put in an order for. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? I > forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always helpful. > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop hardware > should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores > are also > very limited unless you want to wait for them to order something for > you and > barge it up, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you > > should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on > > if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements > > and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as > > we have very soft water here. > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I > > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That > > is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then > > stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > Amber > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care > > > but your live plants will. > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>> > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live > > plants. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not > > > be > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > > > hood > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > > bulbs > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or > > > should I > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:22:12 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32688	From: harry perry	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber/again

I would go for the maximum amount of watts per gallon you can. There are really some striking plants available to the hobby. But as you have learned any plant with color (red etc.) is a high light plant. 130 watts on each side comes to 4.72 watts per gallon. You can do whatever you want with that lighting. If you haven't already you might consider putting you lights on a timer. It's easier to control plant growth and later on the inevitable algae growth. I used to use CO2 injection now I find I can get the same results with Flourish Excel. Please keep us posted. A picture would be nice. Harry --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:39 PM I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double CFL's at 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I would only pay a little more than the light I already found on another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put in an order for. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? I > forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always helpful. > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop hardware > should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores > are also > very limited unless you want to wait for them to order something for > you and > barge it up, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you > > should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on > > if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements > > and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as > > we have very soft water here. > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I > > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That > > is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then > > stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > Amber > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care > > > but your live plants will. > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>> > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live > > plants. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not > > > be > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > > > hood > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > > bulbs > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or > > > should I > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:22:12 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32689	From: harry perry	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Amber and all, live plant care

Amano's Tanks - www.takashiamano.kit.net/tanques1.html AquaDesign - www.aquadesign.pl Aquatic Eden - aquatic-eden.blogspot.com Chuck Gadd - www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm Erik Leung - www.e-aquaria.com Fabio Ghidini - www.fabioghidini.it George Booth - users.frii.com/gbooth/AquaticConcepts Ghazanfar Ghori - www.aquaticscape.com Jared Weinbeiger - www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium Jay Luto - www.greenstouch.com Jeff and Mike Senske - www.aquariumdesigngroup.com Jeff Ludwig - www.rockytop.net Luis Navarro - www.mynatureaquariums.com Maurizio Nicosia - www.naturacquario.net Max Gallade - www.apisto.bravepages.com Nancy Kramer - www.digitalphotoartistry.com Oliver Knott - www.pbase.com/plantella Randy Carey - www.characin.com Steve Pituch - users.ev1.net/~spituch/ Steve Pushak - home.infinet.net/teban Tom Barr - www.barrreport.com Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32690	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi John, CQ, CQ, CQ -- I figured you had Rift Lake Cichlds. Nice assortment; I always did like the Melanochromis species, especially the M. melanopterus, ever since I first started importing that species but you just can't find that one around any longer (and I think its the nicest one of the Genus). I'm not sure if you realize that your mix of these Mbuna can results in cross breeds, even if the possibility in your case is greatly reduced. They will usually not cross breed, unless there are no other fish of their species to breed with, but even then its still possible. The current ACA bulletin I had been discussing with Mike depicts a hybrid between Pseudotropheus perpuratus and Labeotropheus fuelleborni as found in the wild (Lake Malawi) by Ad Konings -- and we can be certain there are others of both these species in their immediate environment. I've seen reports of Mbuna (Metriaclima zebra) hybridizing with Utaka/Peacock (Aulonocara stuartgranti) although this was in captivity, but it shows you the possible consequences. I would not normally recommend (and still don't) your alternating the operations of your two filters with intervals of 3 - 3 1/2 days as your bi-weekly running of these filters indicate, but I can't argue with your results (parameters). It does appear though, that you may not realize that without continued operation of these filters, that much of the nitrifying bacteria will starve of oxygen resulting in a die-back of them. Its always best to keep your filters running continually whenever you can. I like your choices of filters however. Your bi-weekly PWC's should take care of any build-ups of minerals resulting from your high evaporation rate, but any slight increased mineral content should not affect these fish in the least. Just that you need to monitor the water level moreso to ensure your HOB's (Aquaclears) operate efficiently. Looks like your tank is doing good, although its easy to see which male is the most dominant (lol). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > HI  Ray!! >   > Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. >   > 75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. >   > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. >   > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 >   > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, >   > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. >   > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > Common Pleco 1 about 8" >   > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. >   > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. >   > John in Nevada > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your > description. > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > >   > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > two have been posting. > >   > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > >   > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > >   > > John in Nevada > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a > wealth of information! > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > As > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > dwell > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > but > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > to > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > > to, > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > just > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > varied > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > like > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > are > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > > at > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > > are > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > attempt > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > > it'll > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > hide > > > or is > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > > eggs or > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > good > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > produce > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > survive, > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > > tree > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > > shelter > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > that > > > over. > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32691	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

I'd say you've got some cardinals or neons, and something else very similar; most likely glowlights. Possibly black neons. Neons ahve alot of new varieties. Could also be hybrids. Whatever it is has quite a glowing line that is gold or red depending on the light, and that either extends teh entire lenghth of the fish or ends before the tail, depending on the light. and the color of the tail depends on the light. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@...> To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the album titled Bill's Fish. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32692	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

I google imaged it - I see the resemblance, but that bright lateral stripe and the glowing eyes are completely missing. also, aren't buenas aires tetras alot bigger? Some of the tetras in those photos are clearly neons or cardinals, and the mystery ones are the same size and shape as the neons. That being the case they cuold be just another variety of neon. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish Did you look at the pictures of the Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I posted links to earlier. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the album titled Bill's Fish. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:23:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32693	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

I see. but I believe I've enver seen another buenas aires tetra with that bright lateral stripe. I've looked closely at them in fish and pet stores because I liked their plain fish-like coloring. I'd have gotten them if they didn't get so big. Obviously some buenas aires tetras have bright lateral stripes, but how common is this? Also, I could have sworn that the ones I saw weren't the same shape as teh slim-bodied cardinals and neons, and half your fish are clearly one or the other of those. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:42 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish Yep, Amber. They sure do. I've never owned Glow-Light Tetras but they actually look like mini-me's of the Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I did have except mine had really red eyes. Here's a couple of other pics/profiles for comparison. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d.html http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php I like that website "ThatFishPlace" (the sister site to ThatPetPlace) but I'm disappointed in their listing for the Glow-Light Tetra... partly because they spell it Glo-lite but mostly since they do not have a Latin name for the fish on their listing. This is how there is so much confusion on common names and folks not knowing what they are buying. And many folks might think they are buying Glofish which is the trademarked name for the genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. A Google search on "glo-lite tetra" found only 323 hits. A Google search on "glow-light tetra" found 3,160 hits... 10 times more. A Google on the Latin name, "Hemigrammus erythrozonus", found 38,600 hits... 100 times more than the mis-named "glo-lite". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't as dark on your tetra's. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the album > titled Bill's Fish. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:42:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32694	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

Oh, is that what the "winner" photo is. I coudln't get it to blow up into a full sized photo. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish If you go to my "Bill's Fish" album over at group and open it, I just posted the closest photo labeled the winner------------------Glow Light Tetra. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:22 PM AGE???? I think we have a winner here with this photo but my fish are much smaller, maybe a 1/2 " at best. They do all stay together (with the neon's) in one bunch. But the age difference may be a big factor, as with so many fish, it could be the reason for the slight difference in the photo's. Luckily the parameters to keep them seem to be a close enough match for my setup. Most fry, or teen-age cichlids seldom look like the adult versions. Thanks, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 9:22 PM They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't as dark on your tetra's. http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 19942/product. web Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the > album titled Bill's Fish. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32695	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

Whoa - I actually thought the winners were some of your fish and took that into consideration when I suggested glow light tetra. You didn't make it obvious taht those weren't your own fish! But if they didn't look so much like the neons among them I would think they were glow lights. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish If you go to my "Bill's Fish" album over at group and open it, I just posted the closest photo labeled the winner------------------Glow Light Tetra. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:22 PM AGE???? I think we have a winner here with this photo but my fish are much smaller, maybe a 1/2 " at best. They do all stay together (with the neon's) in one bunch. But the age difference may be a big factor, as with so many fish, it could be the reason for the slight difference in the photo's. Luckily the parameters to keep them seem to be a close enough match for my setup. Most fry, or teen-age cichlids seldom look like the adult versions. Thanks, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 9:22 PM They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't as dark on your tetra's. http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 19942/product. web Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the > album titled Bill's Fish. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32696	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish?

Thanks Ray,   I posted "The Winner" picture inside of my Bill's Fish album on group.  Age of course has a direct bearing on ID in some cases and with these tiny fish was no exception.   Bill --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bill's Fish? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 12:21 AM Bill, These are Glowlight (original spelling) Tetras, more recently spelled as "Glow-Light" Tetras (Hemigrammus erythrozonus) , as Jackie and Joey stated. No "ifs," "ands" or "buts" about it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > I just posed two pictures of the Mystery Tetra's.  "A" & "B". >   > They are awaiting Modertor approval. >   > Album title is "Bill's Fish" >   > help ID'ing?? >   > Bill >   > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32697	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:18 AM Hi John, CQ, CQ, CQ -- I figured you had Rift Lake Cichlds. Nice assortment; I always did like the Melanochromis species, especially the M. melanopterus, ever since I first started importing that species but you just can't find that one around any longer (and I think its the nicest one of the Genus). I'm not sure if you realize that your mix of these Mbuna can results in cross breeds, even if the possibility in your case is greatly reduced. They will usually not cross breed, unless there are no other fish of their species to breed with, but even then its still possible. The current ACA bulletin I had been discussing with Mike depicts a hybrid between Pseudotropheus perpuratus and Labeotropheus fuelleborni as found in the wild (Lake Malawi) by Ad Konings -- and we can be certain there are others of both these species in their immediate environment. I've seen reports of Mbuna (Metriaclima zebra) hybridizing with Utaka/Peacock (Aulonocara stuartgranti) although this was in captivity, but it shows you the possible consequences. I would not normally recommend (and still don't) your alternating the operations of your two filters with intervals of 3 - 3 1/2 days as your bi-weekly running of these filters indicate, but I can't argue with your results (parameters) . It does appear though, that you may not realize that without continued operation of these filters, that much of the nitrifying bacteria will starve of oxygen resulting in a die-back of them. Its always best to keep your filters running continually whenever you can. I like your choices of filters however. Your bi-weekly PWC's should take care of any build-ups of minerals resulting from your high evaporation rate, but any slight increased mineral content should not affect these fish in the least. Just that you need to monitor the water level moreso to ensure your HOB's (Aquaclears) operate efficiently. Looks like your tank is doing good, although its easy to see which male is the most dominant (lol). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > HI  Ray!! >   > Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. >   > 75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. >   > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. >   > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 >   > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, >   > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. >   > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > Common Pleco 1 about 8" >   > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. >   > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. >   > John in Nevada > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your > description. > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > >   > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > two have been posting. > >   > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > >   > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > >   > > John in Nevada > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a > wealth of information! > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > As > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > dwell > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > but > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > to > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > > to, > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > just > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > varied > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > like > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > are > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > > at > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > > are > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > attempt > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > > it'll > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > hide > > > or is > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > > eggs or > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > good > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > produce > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > survive, > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > > tree > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > > shelter > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > that > > > over. > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32698	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi Ray,   Are you a Ham too?  CQ-CQ-CQ?   Bill --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:18 AM Hi John, CQ, CQ, CQ -- I figured you had Rift Lake Cichlds. Nice assortment; I always did like the Melanochromis species, especially the M. melanopterus, ever since I first started importing that species but you just can't find that one around any longer (and I think its the nicest one of the Genus). I'm not sure if you realize that your mix of these Mbuna can results in cross breeds, even if the possibility in your case is greatly reduced. They will usually not cross breed, unless there are no other fish of their species to breed with, but even then its still possible. The current ACA bulletin I had been discussing with Mike depicts a hybrid between Pseudotropheus perpuratus and Labeotropheus fuelleborni as found in the wild (Lake Malawi) by Ad Konings -- and we can be certain there are others of both these species in their immediate environment. I've seen reports of Mbuna (Metriaclima zebra) hybridizing with Utaka/Peacock (Aulonocara stuartgranti) although this was in captivity, but it shows you the possible consequences. I would not normally recommend (and still don't) your alternating the operations of your two filters with intervals of 3 - 3 1/2 days as your bi-weekly running of these filters indicate, but I can't argue with your results (parameters) . It does appear though, that you may not realize that without continued operation of these filters, that much of the nitrifying bacteria will starve of oxygen resulting in a die-back of them. Its always best to keep your filters running continually whenever you can. I like your choices of filters however. Your bi-weekly PWC's should take care of any build-ups of minerals resulting from your high evaporation rate, but any slight increased mineral content should not affect these fish in the least. Just that you need to monitor the water level moreso to ensure your HOB's (Aquaclears) operate efficiently. Looks like your tank is doing good, although its easy to see which male is the most dominant (lol). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > HI  Ray!! >   > Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. >   > 75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. >   > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. >   > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 >   > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, >   > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. >   > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > Common Pleco 1 about 8" >   > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. >   > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. >   > John in Nevada > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your > description. > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > >   > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > two have been posting. > >   > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > >   > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > >   > > John in Nevada > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a > wealth of information! > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > As > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > dwell > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > but > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > to > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > > to, > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > just > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > varied > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > like > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > are > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > > at > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > > are > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > attempt > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > > it'll > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > hide > > > or is > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > > eggs or > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > good > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > produce > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > survive, > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > > tree > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > > shelter > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > that > > > over. > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32699	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's Fish

They are my own fish but I knew they were not called "Red-Eye" tetra's. Not at that size and body shape.  Another quality product brought to you by "Wally-World"!  Here in PA-----which is Not the hub of the Tropical Fish Hobby! --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 10:25 AM Whoa - I actually thought the winners were some of your fish and took that into consideration when I suggested glow light tetra. You didn't make it obvious taht those weren't your own fish! But if they didn't look so much like the neons among them I would think they were glow lights. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish If you go to my "Bill's Fish" album over at group and open it, I just posted the closest photo labeled the winner------ --------- ---Glow Light Tetra. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:22 PM AGE???? I think we have a winner here with this photo but my fish are much smaller, maybe a 1/2 " at best. They do all stay together (with the neon's) in one bunch. But the age difference may be a big factor, as with so many fish, it could be the reason for the slight difference in the photo's. Luckily the parameters to keep them seem to be a close enough match for my setup. Most fry, or teen-age cichlids seldom look like the adult versions. Thanks, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 9:22 PM They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't as dark on your tetra's. http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 19942/product. web Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the > album titled Bill's Fish. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32700	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Sorry Ray it was late and I made several errors in my description.   It is not bi-weekly, but every 2 weeks and I do run the Magnum continuously on the alternate 2 week I change from a Bio Load To the Diatom Filter.   As far as Hybrids are concerned I know of the possibility, however since I hope my Tank will ne perpetual, they will stay in my Tank. So I feel no harm done. I don't think it hashappened yet and I love the coloring of the Maingano.   John --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:18 AM Hi John, CQ, CQ, CQ -- I figured you had Rift Lake Cichlds. Nice assortment; I always did like the Melanochromis species, especially the M. melanopterus, ever since I first started importing that species but you just can't find that one around any longer (and I think its the nicest one of the Genus). I'm not sure if you realize that your mix of these Mbuna can results in cross breeds, even if the possibility in your case is greatly reduced. They will usually not cross breed, unless there are no other fish of their species to breed with, but even then its still possible. The current ACA bulletin I had been discussing with Mike depicts a hybrid between Pseudotropheus perpuratus and Labeotropheus fuelleborni as found in the wild (Lake Malawi) by Ad Konings -- and we can be certain there are others of both these species in their immediate environment. I've seen reports of Mbuna (Metriaclima zebra) hybridizing with Utaka/Peacock (Aulonocara stuartgranti) although this was in captivity, but it shows you the possible consequences. I would not normally recommend (and still don't) your alternating the operations of your two filters with intervals of 3 - 3 1/2 days as your bi-weekly running of these filters indicate, but I can't argue with your results (parameters) . It does appear though, that you may not realize that without continued operation of these filters, that much of the nitrifying bacteria will starve of oxygen resulting in a die-back of them. Its always best to keep your filters running continually whenever you can. I like your choices of filters however. Your bi-weekly PWC's should take care of any build-ups of minerals resulting from your high evaporation rate, but any slight increased mineral content should not affect these fish in the least. Just that you need to monitor the water level moreso to ensure your HOB's (Aquaclears) operate efficiently. Looks like your tank is doing good, although its easy to see which male is the most dominant (lol). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > HI  Ray!! >   > Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. >   > 75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. >   > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. >   > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 >   > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, >   > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. >   > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > Common Pleco 1 about 8" >   > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. >   > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. >   > John in Nevada > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your > description. > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > >   > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > two have been posting. > >   > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > >   > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > >   > > John in Nevada > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a > wealth of information! > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > As > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > dwell > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > but > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > to > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > > to, > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > just > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > varied > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > like > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > are > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > > at > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > > are > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > attempt > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > > it'll > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > hide > > > or is > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > > eggs or > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > good > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > produce > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > survive, > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > > tree > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > > shelter > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > that > > > over. > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Not wanting to get into a word usage debate but "bi-weekly" is one of them words/terms that can mean either "every two weeks" or "twice a week"... another anomaly of the English language. ;-) I always use semi-weekly for twice a week and bi-weekly for every two weeks but it can lead to confusion in some cases. From the WordWeb program... a nifty little desktop dictionary program that's free and quicker to use than the web or a paper dictionary: bi-weekly - adj 1 fortnightly. 2 occurring or appearing twice a week. Sometimes semi-weekly. Also adverb. noun a periodical issued twice a week, or once every two weeks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Sorry Ray it was late and I made several errors in my description. It is not bi-weekly, but every 2 weeks and I do run the Magnum continuously on the alternate 2 week I change from a Bio Load To the Diatom Filter. As far as Hybrids are concerned I know of the possibility, however since I hope my Tank will ne perpetual, they will stay in my Tank. So I feel no harm done. I don't think it hashappened yet and I love the coloring of the Maingano. John --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:18 AM Hi John, CQ, CQ, CQ -- I figured you had Rift Lake Cichlds. Nice assortment; I always did like the Melanochromis species, especially the M. melanopterus, ever since I first started importing that species but you just can't find that one around any longer (and I think its the nicest one of the Genus). I'm not sure if you realize that your mix of these Mbuna can results in cross breeds, even if the possibility in your case is greatly reduced. They will usually not cross breed, unless there are no other fish of their species to breed with, but even then its still possible. The current ACA bulletin I had been discussing with Mike depicts a hybrid between Pseudotropheus perpuratus and Labeotropheus fuelleborni as found in the wild (Lake Malawi) by Ad Konings -- and we can be certain there are others of both these species in their immediate environment. I've seen reports of Mbuna (Metriaclima zebra) hybridizing with Utaka/Peacock (Aulonocara stuartgranti) although this was in captivity, but it shows you the possible consequences. I would not normally recommend (and still don't) your alternating the operations of your two filters with intervals of 3 - 3 1/2 days as your bi-weekly running of these filters indicate, but I can't argue with your results (parameters) . It does appear though, that you may not realize that without continued operation of these filters, that much of the nitrifying bacteria will starve of oxygen resulting in a die-back of them. Its always best to keep your filters running continually whenever you can. I like your choices of filters however. Your bi-weekly PWC's should take care of any build-ups of minerals resulting from your high evaporation rate, but any slight increased mineral content should not affect these fish in the least. Just that you need to monitor the water level moreso to ensure your HOB's (Aquaclears) operate efficiently. Looks like your tank is doing good, although its easy to see which male is the most dominant (lol). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > HI Ray!! > > Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. > > 75 Gallon Tank - All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. > > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. > > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 > > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, > > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. > > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 Labidochromis > Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos > ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- > Started with 6 Common Pleco 1 about 8" > > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. > > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. > > John in Nevada > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this thread. > There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of trying > to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from their > owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your > description. > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > > > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > two have been posting. > > > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > > > John in Nevada > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche > from my old place still. > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a > wealth of information! > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > As > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > dwell > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > but > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > to > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > > to, > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > just > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > varied > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > like > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > are > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > > at > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > > are > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > attempt > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > > it'll > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > hide > > > or is > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > > eggs or > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > good > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > produce > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > survive, > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > > tree > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > > shelter > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > that > > > over. > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Shirley _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 10:32:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32702	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Thanks Steve,   I'll check Amazon for it.   Bill --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:27 AM Bill, If you can get your hands on a copy of Innes' Exotic Aquarium Fishes 19th edition revised or earlier, the pronunciation of all scientific names used is given. From this you should be able to interpolate others that you may run across. Then, you can always keep in mind the Paul Loiselle statement, "He who speaks the name the loudest is the most correct." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Thanks Steve,   But aside from learning the scientific names of the fish I'd love to be able to pronounce them properly. I think you'll agree that as far as the common names go; they almost always change by where your standing at the time!  People in some states don't call the same fish by the same name as other states.  Sometime it's worse than that ------------ they don't call them by the same name from one town to another town!   when you can, good hearing from you,   Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:47 PM Here is a tome that is an "official" listing of common names for scientists: _Common and Scientific Names of Fishes from the United States, Canada, and Mexico_. This edition is put together by John S. Nelson. There is also another publication, but its title is lost to me right now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com[mailto:AquaticL ife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not LOL... NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, trust a pet store to have the fish properly labeled... nor 95% of the other info they might give out. LOL Even LFS' have problems some times but pet stores, wally-world pet depts, etc. are not the place to look for proper information. My suggestion for future purchases. Look at the fish in the tanks first, write down the names they have them labeled with. Go home and do a little research to verify BEFORE buying. Hopefully you didn't buy a school of Pacu's or Arowana's... but at least you wouldn't have to worry about them pipes leaking in your basement since you'll have to turn it into a fish tank. LOL Here are some other "Red-Eyed Tetra" or "Redeyed Tetra" or "Red Eye Tetra" profiles but they all match the Pictures link on the Mongabay profile. http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=10674 http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ tet-rede. htm http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .php http://www.elmersaq uarium.com/ 10tetra_redeye. htm Now, on a side note, on one of the tanks I adopted/saved back in 2005, pre-Katrina, I got some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that had red eyes so check out the images of them on the net to see if maybe that is what you have. Here's a decent pic of one of them. http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_buenosm. php Note that these fish (and the Red-Eyed Tetra probably get too large... close to 3" each) for a 10G tank or smaller tanks since they should be kept in schools of six, that's about three too many for a 10G tank. One of the weird things my Albino Buenos Aires Tetras would do is get in a school in the outflow of the filter and swim against the current, kind of hovering in place while they were actually swimming quite rapidly... almost like one of them new-fangled indoor swimming pools where the water flows from end to end while the swimmer stays in place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Len, They gots the names wrong! Even the common names! Whatever the fish is that I have it ain't what they have! Might take a few days here but I'm going to try too post pictures. Its the only clear way to ID themn properly. Darn Wally-World! Thanks again for the corrected link, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32703	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Also check eBay. I see five for sale on there for $1.00 to $14.95 (+ shipping of around $4.00). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not Thanks Steve, I'll check Amazon for it. Bill --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:27 AM Bill, If you can get your hands on a copy of Innes' Exotic Aquarium Fishes 19th edition revised or earlier, the pronunciation of all scientific names used is given. From this you should be able to interpolate others that you may run across. Then, you can always keep in mind the Paul Loiselle statement, "He who speaks the name the loudest is the most correct." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Thanks Steve, But aside from learning the scientific names of the fish I'd love to be able to pronounce them properly. I think you'll agree that as far as the common names go; they almost always change by where your standing at the time! People in some states don't call the same fish by the same name as other states. Sometime it's worse than that ------------ they don't call them by the same name from one town to another town! when you can, good hearing from you, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:47 PM Here is a tome that is an "official" listing of common names for scientists: _Common and Scientific Names of Fishes from the United States, Canada, and Mexico_. This edition is put together by John S. Nelson. There is also another publication, but its title is lost to me right now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com[mailto:AquaticL ife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not LOL... NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, trust a pet store to have the fish properly labeled... nor 95% of the other info they might give out. LOL Even LFS' have problems some times but pet stores, wally-world pet depts, etc. are not the place to look for proper information. My suggestion for future purchases. Look at the fish in the tanks first, write down the names they have them labeled with. Go home and do a little research to verify BEFORE buying. Hopefully you didn't buy a school of Pacu's or Arowana's... but at least you wouldn't have to worry about them pipes leaking in your basement since you'll have to turn it into a fish tank. LOL Here are some other "Red-Eyed Tetra" or "Redeyed Tetra" or "Red Eye Tetra" profiles but they all match the Pictures link on the Mongabay profile. http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=10674 http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ tet-rede. htm http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .php http://www.elmersaq uarium.com/ 10tetra_redeye. htm Now, on a side note, on one of the tanks I adopted/saved back in 2005, pre-Katrina, I got some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that had red eyes so check out the images of them on the net to see if maybe that is what you have. Here's a decent pic of one of them. http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_buenosm. php Note that these fish (and the Red-Eyed Tetra probably get too large... close to 3" each) for a 10G tank or smaller tanks since they should be kept in schools of six, that's about three too many for a 10G tank. One of the weird things my Albino Buenos Aires Tetras would do is get in a school in the outflow of the filter and swim against the current, kind of hovering in place while they were actually swimming quite rapidly... almost like one of them new-fangled indoor swimming pools where the water flows from end to end while the swimmer stays in place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Len, They gots the names wrong! Even the common names! Whatever the fish is that I have it ain't what they have! Might take a few days here but I'm going to try too post pictures. Its the only clear way to ID themn properly. Darn Wally-World! Thanks again for the corrected link, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 10:44:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 11:22:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32704	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: milky, greenish water

Hi all, I've been lurking for a while, and now it's my turn to ask for advice. I have a 55 gal, heavily planted tank with milky, greenish water. Here are the stats: Set up on Aug 29. Used tetra safe start and immediately added 12 brilliant rasboras. filter Aquaclear 70. Lots of plants (about 80% of gravel area has a plant in or over it. Over the next two months, I have slowly added more flora and added these fauna: 12 white cloud mountain minnows 6 pseudomugil gertrudae 8 ember tetra 4 bumblebee goby 6 otocinclus 11 Celestial Pearl Danios,(Danio margaritatus,Celestichthys margaritatus) 7 microrasbora erythromicron 2 calico bristlenose plecostomus 16 corydoras pygmaeus 6 Boraras brigittae 5 violetta cory (corydoras similis) 6 amano shrimp 20 cherry red shrimp I took out the brilliant rasboras before adding the smaller fish, and in the beginning of September I hooked up an Eheim 2217 filter. I know this looks overstocked, but they are tiny fish (except for the bristlenose) and won't get much bigger. And yes, I know the conventional wisdom says the goby shouldn't be in there, but they're doing fine without the salt. I've been watching the water quality and there has never been any ammonia, or nitrite. Only 0-5ppm of nitrate. I figure these numbers are because of the vast quantity of plants. pH stays at 8+ (I only have a wide range test kit, need to get the high range for more exactitude). GH is 0, KH has varied from 14 to 12. I'm using softened well water. Without the softener I get pH 9, GH 12, KH 16 and iron and magnesium particulates. Lighting is 104w of pigtail CFL run about 10 hours a day. I dose Excel about every 3 days, that I started using to get rid of BBA on an anubias, which is working. Now after this treatise, the question I have is, what should I do to clear up the water? Darkness? Many water changes? Help! Linda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32705	From: cherrystix81	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Hey......I got my danios

so its been a little while since i last asked for help. and got the help i needed. so glad i joined this site :) anyway i am at six danios long tailed and they look like they are doing great. i think i get more worried about the fish than i really should. i like watching how fast they are and how they have a feeding frenzy when they eat. i would like to add some guppy's but i am scared that it hasent been long enough. so my quistion now is how many cycles should i wait until i can add the guppy's. i know that they are hardy but i also heard that they are picky on adapting to water. What signs should i look for before i can add guppy's? i dont want to shock them to death. i was also looking at ghost catfish but i want to do more research on it. anyway thanks for the info :) >>>>>>kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: milky, greenish water

Linda, I wanted to double check.. is the water milky, as in whitish colored or is it greenish water... or both? I realize the fish are still small but you should base your stocking on the expected adult size of the fish. Not counting the 26 shrimp, I counted a total of 95 fish. Without checking their expected adult sizes of all of them, I did see two BN Plecos (5"-6" each) so they would need 15-20 gallons of your 55G just for them two fish. Even if the rest of your fish stayed under 1" as full grown adults, you would need to reduce the bioload by at least 50% to have a better chance at long term success. Even with lots of plants, I think you tank is on a dangerous track for your fish. When the fish are juvi's is when they need the most water so the hormone levels do not get too high so the fish do not get stunted... which will lead to weakened immune systems and likely health issues. Of course, if you do frequent 2-3 times a week 25% PWC's, it would help to reduce/dilute the hormone levels but inevitably, you'll need a much larger tank. As the fish grow, the levels of their waste will be too much for your 55G tank to handle. It's good that you used the TetraAqua Safe Start which is supposed to be the new name for FW Bio-Spira since Tetra bought out Marineland... although I personally think most of Tetra's products are pretty much junk. Next time, look for Dr. Tim's One And Only http://DrTimsAquatics.com since he was the scientist that invented Bio-Spira while running Marineland lab's. I would trust him any day to have a good product compared to Tetra maintaining a good replacement product for Bio-Spira. You may have wasted a little money by using the entire bottle... if you did use it all to start with... since you only added 12 small fish after adding it. If it works as Bio-Spira did, then you could have added a full bioload (of juvi fish based on their expected adult size) to the tank the day after adding the product. By only adding 12 fish, the good nitrifying bacteria that should be in the bottle will have died off if they didn't have enough ammonia to support the colony. Are you using pure softened water or a mix of the well water and the softened water? As you may be seeing from your test results, the water softener is removing all of the chemicals that make up the GH test results. Your KH is high even with the softened water so you could add a little peat moss to your filter system to slowly lower it to a more moderate level. Well... that's what I see without studying things more. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Badeen Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] milky, greenish water Hi all, I've been lurking for a while, and now it's my turn to ask for advice. I have a 55 gal, heavily planted tank with milky, greenish water. Here are the stats: Set up on Aug 29. Used tetra safe start and immediately added 12 brilliant rasboras. filter Aquaclear 70. Lots of plants (about 80% of gravel area has a plant in or over it. Over the next two months, I have slowly added more flora and added these fauna: 12 white cloud mountain minnows 6 pseudomugil gertrudae 8 ember tetra 4 bumblebee goby 6 otocinclus 11 Celestial Pearl Danios,(Danio margaritatus,Celestichthys margaritatus) 7 microrasbora erythromicron 2 calico bristlenose plecostomus 16 corydoras pygmaeus 6 Boraras brigittae 5 violetta cory (corydoras similis) 6 amano shrimp 20 cherry red shrimp I took out the brilliant rasboras before adding the smaller fish, and in the beginning of September I hooked up an Eheim 2217 filter. I know this looks overstocked, but they are tiny fish (except for the bristlenose) and won't get much bigger. And yes, I know the conventional wisdom says the goby shouldn't be in there, but they're doing fine without the salt. I've been watching the water quality and there has never been any ammonia, or nitrite. Only 0-5ppm of nitrate. I figure these numbers are because of the vast quantity of plants. pH stays at 8+ (I only have a wide range test kit, need to get the high range for more exactitude). GH is 0, KH has varied from 14 to 12. I'm using softened well water. Without the softener I get pH 9, GH 12, KH 16 and iron and magnesium particulates. Lighting is 104w of pigtail CFL run about 10 hours a day. I dose Excel about every 3 days, that I started using to get rid of BBA on an anubias, which is working. Now after this treatise, the question I have is, what should I do to clear up the water? Darkness? Many water changes? Help! Linda _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 11:51:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32709	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: milky, greenish water

Lenny, When I look at the water, it first looks whitish, then I can see some green mixed in. Those brilliant rasboras were 1 1/2 inches each when I added them and 2 1/2 inches when I traded them for the WCMM's and pygmy cory's, so I think the Safe Start was used pretty well. I guess I could have used a smaller bottle. Sizes full grown... BN's 5", WCMM's 1.5", cory similis 1.5", otos 1.5"...everyone else less than 1". I stocked with micro fish. BTW, is the math different down there in bayou country? I count 83 fish, but that's yankee math<g>. Oh...did you miss that I took the 12 brilliant rasboras out before adding any more fish. Is that where you get the extra 12? I thought I'm just making sure there isn't ammonia and nitrites. And keeping nitrate down to below 30PPM. Now you're saying I need a hormone test kit? Menopause for fish. I'm having enough of that personally without worrying about it in my fish! I was doing 40% pwc's once weekly until the water started turning cloudy. Then I upped it to twice a week. I'm using pure softened water. I have a large piece of driftwood in the tank, so that might be why the KH has gone from 14 to 12. Do you think I should add some crushed oyster shell to the filter to help with the GH. That was recommended to me for my goldfish pond (outdoor, 12GF, 6 rosy red minnows, 1200gal, thriving). I also have a 29gal tank with 6 praecox rainbows, 7 peppered corys, and a BN pleco. No problem there, although it was a bit cloudy at first and then just spontaneously cleared up. I might just wait and see what happens with this tank, but it's taking longer to clear up. Linda Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Linda, > > I wanted to double check.. is the water milky, as in whitish colored or is > it greenish water... or both? > > I realize the fish are still small but you should base your stocking on the > expected adult size of the fish. > > Not counting the 26 shrimp, I counted a total of 95 fish. Without checking > their expected adult sizes of all of them, I did see two BN Plecos (5"-6" > each) so they would need 15-20 gallons of your 55G just for them two fish. > Even if the rest of your fish stayed under 1" as full grown adults, you > would need to reduce the bioload by at least 50% to have a better chance at > long term success. > > Even with lots of plants, I think you tank is on a dangerous track for your > fish. When the fish are juvi's is when they need the most water so the > hormone levels do not get too high so the fish do not get stunted... which > will lead to weakened immune systems and likely health issues. Of course, > if you do frequent 2-3 times a week 25% PWC's, it would help to > reduce/dilute the hormone levels but inevitably, you'll need a much larger > tank. As the fish grow, the levels of their waste will be too much for your > 55G tank to handle. > > It's good that you used the TetraAqua Safe Start which is supposed to be the > new name for FW Bio-Spira since Tetra bought out Marineland... although I > personally think most of Tetra's products are pretty much junk. Next time, > look for Dr. Tim's One And Only http://DrTimsAquatics.com since he was the > scientist that invented Bio-Spira while running Marineland lab's. I would > trust him any day to have a good product compared to Tetra maintaining a > good replacement product for Bio-Spira. > > You may have wasted a little money by using the entire bottle... if you did > use it all to start with... since you only added 12 small fish after adding > it. If it works as Bio-Spira did, then you could have added a full bioload > (of juvi fish based on their expected adult size) to the tank the day after > adding the product. By only adding 12 fish, the good nitrifying bacteria > that should be in the bottle will have died off if they didn't have enough > ammonia to support the colony. > > Are you using pure softened water or a mix of the well water and the > softened water? As you may be seeing from your test results, the water > softener is removing all of the chemicals that make up the GH test results. > Your KH is high even with the softened water so you could add a little peat > moss to your filter system to slowly lower it to a more moderate level. > > Well... that's what I see without studying things more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Linda Badeen > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] milky, greenish water > > Hi all, > I've been lurking for a while, and now it's my turn to ask for advice. > > I have a 55 gal, heavily planted tank with milky, greenish water. Here are > the stats: > > Set up on Aug 29. Used tetra safe start and immediately added 12 brilliant > rasboras. filter Aquaclear 70. Lots of plants (about 80% of gravel area has > a plant in or over it. > > Over the next two months, I have slowly added more flora and added these > fauna: > 12 white cloud mountain minnows > 6 pseudomugil gertrudae > 8 ember tetra > 4 bumblebee goby > 6 otocinclus > 11 Celestial Pearl Danios,(Danio margaritatus,Celestichthys margaritatus) > 7 microrasbora erythromicron > 2 calico bristlenose plecostomus > 16 corydoras pygmaeus > 6 Boraras brigittae > 5 violetta cory (corydoras similis) > 6 amano shrimp > 20 cherry red shrimp > > I took out the brilliant rasboras before adding the smaller fish, and in the > beginning of September I hooked up an Eheim 2217 filter. > > I know this looks overstocked, but they are tiny fish (except for the > bristlenose) and won't get much bigger. And yes, I know the conventional > wisdom says the goby shouldn't be in there, but they're doing fine without > the salt. > > I've been watching the water quality and there has never been any ammonia, > or nitrite. Only 0-5ppm of nitrate. I figure these numbers are because of > the vast quantity of plants. pH stays at 8+ (I only have a wide range test > kit, need to get the high range for more exactitude). > GH is 0, KH has varied from 14 to 12. I'm using softened well water. > Without the softener I get pH 9, GH 12, KH 16 and iron and magnesium > particulates. > > Lighting is 104w of pigtail CFL run about 10 hours a day. I dose Excel about > every 3 days, that I started using to get rid of BBA on an anubias, which is > working. > > Now after this treatise, the question I have is, what should I do to clear > up the water? Darkness? Many water changes? Help! > > Linda >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32710	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: milky, greenish water

Yep. I counted the first 12 fish in the 95 count, but even 83 fish in a 55G tank is a VERY HEAVY bioload especially since the BN's are wide bodied fish and longer than 3" so they don't work with the OLD 1" rule... that I call the 1" fish-killing rule since it's so often misused or misunderstood and can only be used for fish that are slim bodied and stay under 3" as adults. For example, you can't keep a 6" long round-bodied goldfish in an 6G tank or a 12" Oscar in a 12G tank.. it simply doesn't work. As I stated before the two BN's would count towards 15-20G of the available bioload so you still have 81 fish in the other 35-40G of water volume, which is a 200%+ bioload.. which is going to cause you problems... unless you don't mind the twice weekly or more 25% PWC's. You have to be careful when doing 40% PWC's so that you are not changing the water parameters too much, too fast. If the incoming water is nearly identical to the tank water, then it's OK but usually it's not going to be similar enough. There is not a home test for the hormone levels.. it's just something we know is in the water column due to the advanced chemical analysis that is done in the aquaculture industry to find out why the farm raised fish were being stunted so badly. Of course, this only applies to fish. I know all about the home test for hormones in you women... us men need to run and hide!!! LOL We used to think we could rely on the nitrate level to know when to do PWC's but in a heavily planted tank, they will utilize the nitrogenous compounds but there is no evidence that they utilize the hormones that fish excrete so we just have to realize and accept that they are there and need to be removed and diluted on a regular basis. Concerning the hormones, while some will be "mating" type hormones but many are also territorial hormones or fear hormones, etc. so when these build up, they affect the other fish. I see you are doing twice weekly 40% PWC's so that's good that you don't mind this schedule. The whitish color is usually due to bacterial blooms happening in the water column, oftentimes related to the tank going into a mini-cycle after someone inadvertently or unknowingly trashes their filter media or over cleans it. What about filter maintenance? I see you have an AquaClear... which is a VERY GOOD brand for HOB's. Are you over cleaning the filter media when you do filter maintenance? Check out my long article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" on my blog for more info on how to properly clean a filter without killing off all of your good nitrifying bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Badeen Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] milky, greenish water Lenny, When I look at the water, it first looks whitish, then I can see some green mixed in. Those brilliant rasboras were 1 1/2 inches each when I added them and 2 1/2 inches when I traded them for the WCMM's and pygmy cory's, so I think the Safe Start was used pretty well. I guess I could have used a smaller bottle. Sizes full grown... BN's 5", WCMM's 1.5", cory similis 1.5", otos 1.5"...everyone else less than 1". I stocked with micro fish. BTW, is the math different down there in bayou country? I count 83 fish, but that's yankee math<g>. Oh...did you miss that I took the 12 brilliant rasboras out before adding any more fish. Is that where you get the extra 12? I thought I'm just making sure there isn't ammonia and nitrites. And keeping nitrate down to below 30PPM. Now you're saying I need a hormone test kit? Menopause for fish. I'm having enough of that personally without worrying about it in my fish! I was doing 40% pwc's once weekly until the water started turning cloudy. Then I upped it to twice a week. I'm using pure softened water. I have a large piece of driftwood in the tank, so that might be why the KH has gone from 14 to 12. Do you think I should add some crushed oyster shell to the filter to help with the GH. That was recommended to me for my goldfish pond (outdoor, 12GF, 6 rosy red minnows, 1200gal, thriving). I also have a 29gal tank with 6 praecox rainbows, 7 peppered corys, and a BN pleco. No problem there, although it was a bit cloudy at first and then just spontaneously cleared up. I might just wait and see what happens with this tank, but it's taking longer to clear up. Linda Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Linda, > > I wanted to double check.. is the water milky, as in whitish colored > or is it greenish water... or both? > > I realize the fish are still small but you should base your stocking > on the expected adult size of the fish. > > Not counting the 26 shrimp, I counted a total of 95 fish. Without > checking their expected adult sizes of all of them, I did see two BN Plecos (5"-6" > each) so they would need 15-20 gallons of your 55G just for them two fish. > Even if the rest of your fish stayed under 1" as full grown adults, > you would need to reduce the bioload by at least 50% to have a better > chance at long term success. > > Even with lots of plants, I think you tank is on a dangerous track for > your fish. When the fish are juvi's is when they need the most water > so the hormone levels do not get too high so the fish do not get > stunted... which will lead to weakened immune systems and likely > health issues. Of course, if you do frequent 2-3 times a week 25% > PWC's, it would help to reduce/dilute the hormone levels but > inevitably, you'll need a much larger tank. As the fish grow, the > levels of their waste will be too much for your 55G tank to handle. > > It's good that you used the TetraAqua Safe Start which is supposed to > be the new name for FW Bio-Spira since Tetra bought out Marineland... > although I personally think most of Tetra's products are pretty much > junk. Next time, look for Dr. Tim's One And Only > http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com> since he was > the scientist that invented Bio-Spira while running Marineland lab's. > I would trust him any day to have a good product compared to Tetra maintaining a good replacement product for Bio-Spira. > > You may have wasted a little money by using the entire bottle... if > you did use it all to start with... since you only added 12 small fish > after adding it. If it works as Bio-Spira did, then you could have > added a full bioload (of juvi fish based on their expected adult size) > to the tank the day after adding the product. By only adding 12 fish, > the good nitrifying bacteria that should be in the bottle will have > died off if they didn't have enough ammonia to support the colony. > > Are you using pure softened water or a mix of the well water and the > softened water? As you may be seeing from your test results, the water > softener is removing all of the chemicals that make up the GH test results. > Your KH is high even with the softened water so you could add a little > peat moss to your filter system to slowly lower it to a more moderate level. > > Well... that's what I see without studying things more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Linda Badeen > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] milky, greenish water > > Hi all, > I've been lurking for a while, and now it's my turn to ask for advice. > > I have a 55 gal, heavily planted tank with milky, greenish water. Here > are the stats: > > Set up on Aug 29. Used tetra safe start and immediately added 12 > brilliant rasboras. filter Aquaclear 70. Lots of plants (about 80% of > gravel area has a plant in or over it. > > Over the next two months, I have slowly added more flora and added > these > fauna: > 12 white cloud mountain minnows > 6 pseudomugil gertrudae > 8 ember tetra > 4 bumblebee goby > 6 otocinclus > 11 Celestial Pearl Danios,(Danio margaritatus,Celestichthys > margaritatus) > 7 microrasbora erythromicron > 2 calico bristlenose plecostomus > 16 corydoras pygmaeus > 6 Boraras brigittae > 5 violetta cory (corydoras similis) > 6 amano shrimp > 20 cherry red shrimp > > I took out the brilliant rasboras before adding the smaller fish, and > in the beginning of September I hooked up an Eheim 2217 filter. > > I know this looks overstocked, but they are tiny fish (except for the > bristlenose) and won't get much bigger. And yes, I know the > conventional wisdom says the goby shouldn't be in there, but they're > doing fine without the salt. > > I've been watching the water quality and there has never been any > ammonia, or nitrite. Only 0-5ppm of nitrate. I figure these numbers > are because of the vast quantity of plants. pH stays at 8+ (I only > have a wide range test kit, need to get the high range for more exactitude). > GH is 0, KH has varied from 14 to 12. I'm using softened well water. > Without the softener I get pH 9, GH 12, KH 16 and iron and magnesium > particulates. > > Lighting is 104w of pigtail CFL run about 10 hours a day. I dose Excel > about every 3 days, that I started using to get rid of BBA on an > anubias, which is working. > > Now after this treatise, the question I have is, what should I do to > clear up the water? Darkness? Many water changes? Help! > > Linda > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 1:08:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32711	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi Bill   I might take you up on that one day. I'm not that far from you.   If you ever listen to the Las Vegas news, I am over the "Hump" in Pahrump.   Pahrump is 65 miles NW of Las Vegas.   John --- On Sun, 11/9/08, William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> wrote: From: William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 2:07 AM Hi John, Where are you located in Nevada? I am in Victorville, CA. On I-15 towards L.A. If you ever come down this way, drop me an e mail and stop in & say hello I am sure the wife would be glad to fix you a cuppa coffee. Bill -------Original Message----- -- From: JOHN KD7POE Date: 11/9/2008 1:55:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? HI Ray!! Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. 75 Gallon Tank - All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 Common Pleco 1 about 8" Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. John in Nevada --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your description. If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > Hi Ray & Mike > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you two have been posting. > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > John in Nevada > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32712	From: Chris	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich

My q tank went from 78 to 74 over night. I readjusted my heater and it shot up to 88. I have a hob heater that you turn a nob one way to turn it on and then when it reaches the desired temp you turn it another to set it. I guess I didn't adjust it properly and it didn't turn off. I predict ich now, and hopefully that is all. I have 6 serpe tetra, 2 fancy female guppies, and one pictus cat in my q tank. I'm also using zeolite in the filter to absorb ammonia. What should I do?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32713	From: Alina	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Surgery complete!

I am woman, hear me roar! Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) and once I got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the whole cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. Thanks for all the info and help, guys Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32714	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know about the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They are standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old that I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without breaking it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood. The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 watts, how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each side? seems like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so confused, LOL I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. I have also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I have always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, they just get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There are some days that I really miss the old fish store ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, > unless you > have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one of the CFL's on > each > side so you still only have the total of 130 watts. And then you would > have > two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing you mean > one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total watts. > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total watts on a > 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a LOT. > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of light, CO2 > and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an abundance of > algae. > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either have > sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried about with > even the current upgrade you are doing. > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email but > didn't > you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or two 18" fixtures? What > is the total wattage on that and how long are you leaving that light > fixture > on each day? > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 watts (1 > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total of 550 > watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, then 4-5 hours > a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If you left this new > fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling the lighting but your other > parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and nutrients... would not have doubled > and the plants wouldn't be immediately able to handle that much > anyhow... so > you would likely end up with algae. > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount of > lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants and/or your > other plants start growing faster, then you could leave the lights on > longer, maybe increasing the time the lights are on by an hour each > week or > so, until you have them on 8 hours a day (more or less depending on > how your > tank and plants are doing). > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting on > my 65G > tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG now, I started > getting > algae until my plants took off better. Personally, I don't mind a little > algae like some folks do so it was no big deal for me and I had just > gotten > a new little clown pleco so he needed the algae to eat anyhow. He is > starting to get ahead of the algae growth now so I'll be extending the > lighting time as he gets caught up completely. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double > CFL's at > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I would only > pay a little more than the light I already found on another site > online. I'm > just not sure if I need to cancel my other order and go for the one on > ebay > instead, it's definately a better deal for the watts but if I don't need > that many watts I will go with the single 65 watt light setup that I > already > put in an order for. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? I > > forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always helpful. > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop hardware > > should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores > > are also > > very limited unless you want to wait for them to order something for > > you and > > barge it up, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you > > > should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on > > > if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements > > > and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as > > > we have very soft water here. > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I > > > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That > > > is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then > > > stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care > > > > but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live > > > plants. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not > > > > be > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > > > > hood > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or > > > > should I > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 6:14:26 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32715	From: Anna Boyd	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

do you have a fish tank for sale or just the bulbs ?i am in desprate need for a fish tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: amber@...: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:13:41 -0900Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know about the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They are standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old that I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without breaking it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood.The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 watts, how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each side? seems like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so confused, LOLI leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers.I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. I have also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I have always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, they just get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There are some days that I really miss the old fish store ;)AmberLenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote:>> Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, > unless you> have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one of the CFL's on > each> side so you still only have the total of 130 watts. And then you would > have> two extra CFL bulbs as replacements.>> Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing you mean> one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total watts.>> If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total watts on a> 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a LOT.>> I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of light, CO2> and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an abundance of > algae.> If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either have> sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried about with> even the current upgrade you are doing.>> I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email but > didn't> you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or two 18" fixtures? What> is the total wattage on that and how long are you leaving that light > fixture> on each day?>> For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 watts (1> WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total of 550> watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, then 4-5 hours> a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If you left this new> fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling the lighting but your other> parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and nutrients... would not have doubled> and the plants wouldn't be immediately able to handle that much > anyhow... so> you would likely end up with algae.>> I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount of> lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants and/or your> other plants start growing faster, then you could leave the lights on> longer, maybe increasing the time the lights are on by an hour each > week or> so, until you have them on 8 hours a day (more or less depending on > how your> tank and plants are doing).>> As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting on > my 65G> tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG now, I started > getting> algae until my plants took off better. Personally, I don't mind a little> algae like some folks do so it was no big deal for me and I had just > gotten> a new little clown pleco so he needed the algae to eat anyhow. He is> starting to get ahead of the algae growth now so I'll be extending the> lighting time as he gets caught up completely.>> Lenny Vasbinder> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives> - Year, Month and under Labels)>> -----Original Message-----> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On> Behalf Of Amber Berglund> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber>> I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double > CFL's at> 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I would only> pay a little more than the light I already found on another site > online. I'm> just not sure if I need to cancel my other order and go for the one on > ebay> instead, it's definately a better deal for the watts but if I don't need> that many watts I will go with the single 65 watt light setup that I > already> put in an order for.>> Amber>> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote:> >> > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? I> > forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always helpful.> >> > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop hardware> > should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them.> >> > Lenny Vasbinder> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under> > Archives> > - Year, Month and under Labels)> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On> > Behalf Of Amber Berglund> > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:02 PM> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber> >> > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores> > are also> > very limited unless you want to wait for them to order something for> > you and> > barge it up, LOL.> >> > Amber> >> > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote:> > >> > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light"> > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you> > > should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on> > > if you catch sale prices or not.> > >> > > Lenny Vasbinder> > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > (Links to articles referenced above> > > listed on the right side under Archives> > > - Year, Month and under Labels)> > >> > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> On Behalf Of Amber Berglund> > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber> > >> > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements> > > and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as> > > we have very soft water here.> > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of> > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I> > > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That> > > is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then> > > stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still.> > >> > > Amber> > >> > > harry perry wrote:> > > >> > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care> > > > but your live plants will.> > > >> > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here> > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>>> <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > >> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > >>> >> > > >> > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live> > > plants.> > > >> > > > Harry> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM> > > >> > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not> > > > be> > > >> > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass> > > > hood> > > >> > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL> > > > bulbs> > > >> > > > (one on each side of the tank).> > > >> > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or> > > > should I> > > >> > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something?> > > >> > > > Amber>> _____>> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean.>> Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008> Tested on: 11/9/2008 6:14:26 AM> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.>> _________________________________________________________________ See the most popular videos on the web http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32716	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary Doctorate Of Filterology. You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding new carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did you just refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank water? I hope so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all that harmful. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! I am woman, hear me roar! Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) and once I got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the whole cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. Thanks for all the info and help, guys Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 3:29:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32717	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

You still add up the total wattage of all the bulbs. For example, if you had a single 4' long tube that was 65 watts, that would be 65 watts per gallon. With two 65 watt PCF's, you have 65 watts over each half of the 55G tank so you have 65 watts over 27.5 gallons of water, on each half of the tank, for a total of 130 watts over the entire 55G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know about the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They are standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old that I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without breaking it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood. The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 watts, how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each side? seems like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so confused, LOL I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. I have also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I have always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, they just get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There are some days that I really miss the old fish store ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, > unless you have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one of > the CFL's on each side so you still only have the total of 130 watts. > And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing you > mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total watts. > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total watts > on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a LOT. > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of light, > CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an abundance > of algae. > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either have > sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried about > with even the current upgrade you are doing. > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email but > didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or two 18" > fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you > leaving that light fixture on each day? > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 watts > (1 > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total of > 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, then > 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If you > left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling the > lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and > nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't be > immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would likely end > up with algae. > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount of > lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants and/or > your other plants start growing faster, then you could leave the > lights on longer, maybe increasing the time the lights are on by an > hour each week or so, until you have them on 8 hours a day (more or > less depending on how your tank and plants are doing). > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting on > my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG now, I > started getting algae until my plants took off better. Personally, I > don't mind a little algae like some folks do so it was no big deal for > me and I had just gotten a new little clown pleco so he needed the > algae to eat anyhow. He is starting to get ahead of the algae growth > now so I'll be extending the lighting time as he gets caught up > completely. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double > CFL's at > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I would > only pay a little more than the light I already found on another site > online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other order and go > for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better deal for the > watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go with the single 65 > watt light setup that I already put in an order for. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? > > I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always helpful. > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop > > hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores > > are also very limited unless you want to wait for them to order > > something for you and barge it up, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and > > > you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 > > > depending on if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting > > > requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as soft > > > water plants, as we have very soft water here. > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I > > > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. > > > That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, > > > then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't > > > > care but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on > > > > live > > > plants. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may > > > > not be > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a > > > > glass hood > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or > > > > should I > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 3:34:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32718	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Hey......I got my danios

I had heard that guppy's were pretty good about changing water conditions, but I could be wrong. I don't have any guppy's myself ;) I do know that the ghost glass catfish are easy to kill if your PH doesn't stay close to the same (that's how I killed mine early on, and I didn't get any more because they are very expensive here). I always test my aquarium throughout the week to make sure everything is still at the right levels, but I've also found that if having any ammonia issues the fish tend to be listless, stick to the bottom, and seem to look like they are "breathing" heavily. If your danio's are very happy and hungry like my glofish danio's then I would think your tank should be fine (but I recommend testing the parameters before adding any fish to make sure), but if you add more than 2 at a time each week (guppy's) then you have a very good chance of causing your tank to re-cycle again. My danio's are like a little gang and they can sometimes pick on the other fish, but I have 7 of the little guys, so you might be okay with one less, who knoes, LOL. Amber cherrystix81 wrote: > > so its been a little while since i last asked for help. and got > the help i needed. so glad i joined this site :) anyway i am at six > danios long tailed and they look like they are doing great. i think i > get more worried about the fish than i really should. i like watching > how fast they are and how they have a feeding frenzy when they eat. i > would like to add some guppy's but i am scared that it hasent been long > enough. so my quistion now is how many cycles should i wait until i can > add the guppy's. i know that they are hardy but i also heard that they > are picky on adapting to water. What signs should i look for before i > can add guppy's? i dont want to shock them to death. i was also looking > at ghost catfish but i want to do more research on it. anyway thanks > for the info :) >>>>>>kate > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32719	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

How come having one bulb on each side isnt' the same as having one long one across the tank? I just don't understand why it's added up, LOL. My husband even tried to explain and I was so lost ;) To me it seems like it should be 65 watts across the aquarium since there's a bulb on each side (they don't extend all the way, they are 21" long). I'm sorry if this seems silly. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You still add up the total wattage of all the bulbs. For example, if you > had a single 4' long tube that was 65 watts, that would be 65 watts per > gallon. With two 65 watt PCF's, you have 65 watts over each half of > the 55G > tank so you have 65 watts over 27.5 gallons of water, on each half of the > tank, for a total of 130 watts over the entire 55G tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know about the > watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They are standard > "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" bulb on each > side > of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" bulbs on each side, but is > so rusted from being over 10 years old that I wasn't sure if I could > take it > apart and move it without breaking it, that is why I decided to > upgrade to a > better hood. > The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 watts, how > does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each side? seems like it > would > be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so confused, LOL > > I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. > I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. > I have > also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I have > always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, they just > get the > common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There are some days that I really > miss the old fish store ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, > > unless you have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one of > > the CFL's on each side so you still only have the total of 130 watts. > > And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing you > > mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total watts. > > > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total watts > > on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a LOT. > > > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of light, > > CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an abundance > > of algae. > > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either have > > sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried about > > with even the current upgrade you are doing. > > > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email but > > didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or two 18" > > fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you > > leaving that light fixture on each day? > > > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 watts > > (1 > > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total of > > 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, then > > 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If you > > left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling the > > lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and > > nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't be > > immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would likely end > > up with algae. > > > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount of > > lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants and/or > > your other plants start growing faster, then you could leave the > > lights on longer, maybe increasing the time the lights are on by an > > hour each week or so, until you have them on 8 hours a day (more or > > less depending on how your tank and plants are doing). > > > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting on > > my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG now, I > > started getting algae until my plants took off better. Personally, I > > don't mind a little algae like some folks do so it was no big deal for > > me and I had just gotten a new little clown pleco so he needed the > > algae to eat anyhow. He is starting to get ahead of the algae growth > > now so I'll be extending the lighting time as he gets caught up > > completely. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double > > CFL's at > > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I would > > only pay a little more than the light I already found on another site > > online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other order and go > > for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better deal for the > > watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go with the single 65 > > watt light setup that I already put in an order for. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? > > > I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always > helpful. > > > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop > > > hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores > > > are also very limited unless you want to wait for them to order > > > something for you and barge it up, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop > Light" > > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and > > > > you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 > > > > depending on if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting > > > > requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as soft > > > > water plants, as we have very soft water here. > > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I > > > > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. > > > > That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, > > > > then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't > > > > > care but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on > > > > > live > > > > plants. > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may > > > > > not be > > > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a > > > > > glass hood > > > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or > > > > > should I > > > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 3:34:12 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32720	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber/again

Okay I also found that I can buy double CFL bulbs for the same hood that I ordered, so I could increase my light output, but they are still rated at 65 watt bulbs, how does that compare to a single 65 watt bulb I wonder? Amber harry perry wrote: > > I would go for the maximum amount of watts per gallon you can. There > are really some striking plants available to the hobby. But as you > have learned any plant with color (red etc.) > is a high light plant. > > 130 watts on each side comes to 4.72 watts per gallon. You can do > whatever you want with that lighting. > > If you haven't already you might consider putting you lights on a > timer. It's easier to control plant growth and later on the inevitable > algae growth. > > I used to use CO2 injection now I find I can get the same results with > Flourish Excel. > > Please keep us posted. A picture would be nice. > > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:39 PM > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double CFL's > > at 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I would > > only pay a little more than the light I already found on another site > > online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other order and go for > > the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better deal for the watts but > > if I don't need that many watts I will go with the single 65 watt light > > setup that I already put in an order for. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? I > > > forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always helpful. > > > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop hardware > > > should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:02 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware stores > > > are also > > > very limited unless you want to wait for them to order something for > > > you and > > > barge it up, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop Light" > > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and you > > > > should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 depending on > > > > if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting requirements > > > > and don't need much care in general, as well as soft water plants, as > > > > we have very soft water here. > > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than I > > > > currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. That > > > > is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at first, then > > > > stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't care > > > > > but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > > http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on live > > > > plants. > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still may not > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a glass > > > > > hood > > > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k CFL > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank or > > > > > should I > > > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com>> : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > > Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:22:12 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

Well.. if hubby can't explain it, I'm not getting in the middle of it either. LOL OK.. maybe I'll try one more time. You just need to do like Alina did a few minutes ago... You are woman, hear you ROAR!!! Imagine you were dealing with just a number. If you had a number 1 over the tank, that would add up to 1. If you had a number 1 over each half of the tank, then yow you have a total of 2 over the entire tank.... it's no longer just a 1 over the entire tank. The same goes for watts per gallon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber How come having one bulb on each side isnt' the same as having one long one across the tank? I just don't understand why it's added up, LOL. My husband even tried to explain and I was so lost ;) To me it seems like it should be 65 watts across the aquarium since there's a bulb on each side (they don't extend all the way, they are 21" long). I'm sorry if this seems silly. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You still add up the total wattage of all the bulbs. For example, if > you had a single 4' long tube that was 65 watts, that would be 65 > watts per gallon. With two 65 watt PCF's, you have 65 watts over each > half of the 55G tank so you have 65 watts over 27.5 gallons of water, > on each half of the tank, for a total of 130 watts over the entire 55G > tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know about > the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They are > standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" > bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" > bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old that > I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without breaking > it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood. > The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 watts, > how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each side? seems > like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so confused, LOL > > I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. > I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. > I have > also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I have > always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, they just > get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There are some days > that I really miss the old fish store ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, > > unless you have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one of > > the CFL's on each side so you still only have the total of 130 watts. > > And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing > > you mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total watts. > > > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total watts > > on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a LOT. > > > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of > > light, > > CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an > > abundance of algae. > > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either have > > sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried about > > with even the current upgrade you are doing. > > > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email > > but didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or two 18" > > fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you > > leaving that light fixture on each day? > > > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 > > watts > > (1 > > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total of > > 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, then > > 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If you > > left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling the > > lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and > > nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't be > > immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would likely > > end up with algae. > > > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount of > > lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants > > and/or your other plants start growing faster, then you could leave > > the lights on longer, maybe increasing the time the lights are on by > > an hour each week or so, until you have them on 8 hours a day (more > > or less depending on how your tank and plants are doing). > > > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting on > > my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG now, I > > started getting algae until my plants took off better. Personally, I > > don't mind a little algae like some folks do so it was no big deal > > for me and I had just gotten a new little clown pleco so he needed > > the algae to eat anyhow. He is starting to get ahead of the algae > > growth now so I'll be extending the lighting time as he gets caught > > up completely. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double > > CFL's at > > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I > > would only pay a little more than the light I already found on > > another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other > > order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better > > deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go > > with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put in an order for. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? > > > I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always > helpful. > > > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop > > > hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware > > > stores are also very limited unless you want to wait for them to > > > order something for you and barge it up, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop > Light" > > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and > > > > you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 > > > > depending on if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > >> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting > > > > requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as > > > > soft water plants, as we have very soft water here. > > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than > > > > I currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. > > > > That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at > > > > first, then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't > > > > > care but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >> > > > > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on > > > > > live > > > > plants. > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still > > > > > may not be > > > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a > > > > > glass hood > > > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k > > > > > CFL bulbs > > > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank > > > > > or should I > > > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > > > Amber > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 3:49:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32722	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish

I typed out a nice email about potential problems with Gouramis and had an email hiccup and lost it all. Here is a link from WetWebMedia about Dwarf Gouramis.  The gist of my email was crummy fish from Asian fish farms being imported already diseased. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfgdis.htm LOL yes, I am lucky I have a LFS, most of them go out of business sooner or later, this one has been in town a couple of years so far with success. They have their fish sent in on Alaska Airlines. The main issue they have is with sensitive fish, they don't like the bumpy traveling, such as gourami's, most of their gourami's tend to die soon after arriving. I recently tried to add two more dwarf gourami's to my tank thinking they were females, and turns out they must be males or my 2 males are too territorial to have any females in the tank, they picked on them so much I had to take them back out right away, one died and I have 1 in with my betta for now until I figure something else out. The betta is leaving him alone so it seems okay for now. May have to bring him back to the store or something. Amber -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 7:01 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish LOL yes, I am lucky I have a LFS, most of them go out of business sooner or later, this one has been in town a couple of years so far with success. They have their fish sent in on Alaska Airlines. The main issue they have is with sensitive fish, they don't like the bumpy traveling, such as gourami's, most of their gourami's tend to die soon after arriving. I recently tried to add two more dwarf gourami's to my tank thinking they were females, and turns out they must be males or my 2 males are too territorial to have any females in the tank, they picked on them so much I had to take them back out right away, one died and I have 1 in with my betta for now until I figure something else out. The betta is leaving him alone so it seems okay for now. May have to bring him back to the store or something. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It sounds like you should be happy you even have an LFS... of course, have > you tried ordering from Russia? I hear it's closer. ;-) (Go Sarah > 2012) :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > > Yes I agree, a lot of their items don't have enough information on them > (even on their pet site not the live fish site). I wish I could have live > fish shipped here, but since it takes 2 days for overnight service no fish > places will usually ship here :( So I have to make do with the > selection at > my LFS. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yep, Amber. They sure do. I've never owned Glow-Light Tetras but they > > actually look like mini-me's of the Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I > > did have except mine had really red eyes. Here's a couple of other > > pics/profiles for comparison. > > > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d> > > .html > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1> > > d.html> > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1> > > d.html > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1> > > d.html> > > > > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php>> > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php>> > > > > > I like that website "ThatFishPlace" (the sister site to ThatPetPlace) > > but I'm disappointed in their listing for the Glow-Light Tetra... > > partly because they spell it Glo-lite but mostly since they do not > > have a Latin name for the fish on their listing. This is how there is > > so much confusion on common names and folks not knowing what they are > > buying. And many folks might think they are buying Glofish which is > > the trademarked name for the genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. > > > > A Google search on "glo-lite tetra" found only 323 hits. A Google > > search on "glow-light tetra" found 3,160 hits... 10 times more. A > > Google on the Latin name, "Hemigrammus erythrozonus", found 38,600 > > hits... 100 times more than the mis-named "glo-lite". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > > > > They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't > > as dark on your tetra's. > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> >> > > > > Amber > > > > bill1433 wrote: > > > > > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > > > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the > > > album titled Bill's Fish. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:55:07 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32723	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Bill, Even scientific names have different pronunciations in different regions, sometimes in the same fish club :) I took a medical terminology class for work at my hospital and many words have the same root meaning. When I hear fish people hammer the pronunciation of similar words I use at work I cringe. Otocinclus in particular, Oh Toe not OTTO, drives me nuts. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 8:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not Thanks Steve,   But aside from learning the scientific names of the fish I'd love to be able to pronounce them properly. I think you'll agree that as far as the common names go; they almost always change by where your standing at the time!  People in some states don't call the same fish by the same name as other states.  Sometime it's worse than that ------------they don't call them by the same name from one town to another town!   when you can, good hearing from you,   Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:47 PM Here is a tome that is an "official" listing of common names for scientists: _Common and Scientific Names of Fishes from the United States, Canada, and Mexico_. This edition is put together by John S. Nelson. There is also another publication, but its title is lost to me right now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com[mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not LOL... NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, trust a pet store to have the fish properly labeled... nor 95% of the other info they might give out. LOL Even LFS' have problems some times but pet stores, wally-world pet depts, etc. are not the place to look for proper information. My suggestion for future purchases. Look at the fish in the tanks first, write down the names they have them labeled with. Go home and do a little research to verify BEFORE buying. Hopefully you didn't buy a school of Pacu's or Arowana's... but at least you wouldn't have to worry about them pipes leaking in your basement since you'll have to turn it into a fish tank. LOL Here are some other "Red-Eyed Tetra" or "Redeyed Tetra" or "Red Eye Tetra" profiles but they all match the Pictures link on the Mongabay profile. http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=10674 http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ tet-rede. htm http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .php http://www.elmersaq uarium.com/ 10tetra_redeye. htm Now, on a side note, on one of the tanks I adopted/saved back in 2005, pre-Katrina, I got some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that had red eyes so check out the images of them on the net to see if maybe that is what you have. Here's a decent pic of one of them. http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_buenosm. php Note that these fish (and the Red-Eyed Tetra probably get too large... close to 3" each) for a 10G tank or smaller tanks since they should be kept in schools of six, that's about three too many for a 10G tank. One of the weird things my Albino Buenos Aires Tetras would do is get in a school in the outflow of the filter and swim against the current, kind of hovering in place while they were actually swimming quite rapidly... almost like one of them new-fangled indoor swimming pools where the water flows from end to end while the swimmer stays in place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Len, They gots the names wrong! Even the common names! Whatever the fish is that I have it ain't what they have! Might take a few days here but I'm going to try too post pictures. Its the only clear way to ID themn properly. Darn Wally-World! Thanks again for the corrected link, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32724	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

I now understand how it's done, but I still don't know why ;) lol I'll just believe you, how does that sound? ;) Good to know that I shouldn't just plug the light in right away when I get it and let it go for 10.5 hours like I have mine running now. I plan on getting the sunpaq bulbs that have 8700k and 1000k range bulbs on them (when they are back in stock or if I can find them for the same price on another site), they are the 65 watt dual compact fluorescent bulbs. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well.. if hubby can't explain it, I'm not getting in the middle of it > either. LOL OK.. maybe I'll try one more time. > > You just need to do like Alina did a few minutes ago... You are woman, > hear > you ROAR!!! > > Imagine you were dealing with just a number. If you had a number 1 > over the > tank, that would add up to 1. If you had a number 1 over each half of the > tank, then yow you have a total of 2 over the entire tank.... it's no > longer > just a 1 over the entire tank. The same goes for watts per gallon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > How come having one bulb on each side isnt' the same as having one > long one > across the tank? I just don't understand why it's added up, LOL. My > husband > even tried to explain and I was so lost ;) To me it seems like it > should be > 65 watts across the aquarium since there's a bulb on each side (they don't > extend all the way, they are 21" > long). > > I'm sorry if this seems silly. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You still add up the total wattage of all the bulbs. For example, if > > you had a single 4' long tube that was 65 watts, that would be 65 > > watts per gallon. With two 65 watt PCF's, you have 65 watts over each > > half of the 55G tank so you have 65 watts over 27.5 gallons of water, > > on each half of the tank, for a total of 130 watts over the entire 55G > > tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know about > > the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They are > > standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" > > bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" > > bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old that > > I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without breaking > > it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood. > > The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 watts, > > how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each side? seems > > like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so confused, LOL > > > > I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. > > I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. > > I have > > also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I have > > always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, they just > > get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There are some days > > that I really miss the old fish store ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, > > > unless you have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one of > > > the CFL's on each side so you still only have the total of 130 watts. > > > And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > > > > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing > > > you mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total watts. > > > > > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total watts > > > on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a LOT. > > > > > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of > > > light, > > > CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an > > > abundance of algae. > > > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either have > > > sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried about > > > with even the current upgrade you are doing. > > > > > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email > > > but didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or two 18" > > > fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you > > > leaving that light fixture on each day? > > > > > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 > > > watts > > > (1 > > > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total of > > > 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, then > > > 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If you > > > left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling the > > > lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and > > > nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't be > > > immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would likely > > > end up with algae. > > > > > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount of > > > lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants > > > and/or your other plants start growing faster, then you could leave > > > the lights on longer, maybe increasing the time the lights are on by > > > an hour each week or so, until you have them on 8 hours a day (more > > > or less depending on how your tank and plants are doing). > > > > > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting on > > > my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG now, I > > > started getting algae until my plants took off better. Personally, I > > > don't mind a little algae like some folks do so it was no big deal > > > for me and I had just gotten a new little clown pleco so he needed > > > the algae to eat anyhow. He is starting to get ahead of the algae > > > growth now so I'll be extending the lighting time as he gets caught > > > up completely. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double > > > CFL's at > > > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I > > > would only pay a little more than the light I already found on > > > another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other > > > order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better > > > deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go > > > with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put in an order > for. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? > > > > I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always > > helpful. > > > > > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop > > > > hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware > > > > stores are also very limited unless you want to wait for them to > > > > order something for you and barge it up, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop > > Light" > > > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and > > > > > you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 > > > > > depending on if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting > > > > > requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as > > > > > soft water plants, as we have very soft water here. > > > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > > > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than > > > > > I currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. > > > > > That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at > > > > > first, then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't > > > > > > care but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on > > > > > > live > > > > > plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still > > > > > > may not be > > > > > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a > > > > > > glass hood > > > > > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k > > > > > > CFL bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank > > > > > > or should I > > > > > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 3:49:32 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32725	From: grammy1086	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Sabea anenome discoloration

Hello, I joined group not to long ago(nitrate issue). I think I have it figured out! Tank is 29gal. I was told I needed 50 lbs.of foundation rock alone. 30lbs. of crushed coral/aragonite sand mix. Add in roughly 15 lbs of live rock,and rock w/coral attached. I'd be lucky if there was 20gals. worth of water in there! Oh yeah, 2 yellow tail damsels, 2 clown fish, 1 persnickity psuedochromis. The fish alone kill this tank.I have been doing regular PWC's. BUT there is really not alot of space on the bottom of the tank w/all that rock! Siphoning the gravel was an issue (hence what I believe to be the cause of my nitrate issue). So, I have taken measures to correct this issue and nitrates are down 0-5ppm(HURRAY). This leads me to my next problem.For about 2-3 weeks now my Sabea has been discoloring. I mean from the beautiful pristine white w/purple-blue tips to hints of brown. It is quite a good size. About 2-3 in. when purchased to about 6-7 in. now. Houses the clowns and prefers to stay on the botom of tank. Any Ideas? Thank You, Janet. Ps. Looking at a larger tank this week!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32726	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish

Well I'm not quite sure of where my LFS store precisely gets their fish, they just have 2 wholesalers (one in florida and one in california), so I'm not sure if theirs are the crummy fish you speak of :) Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > I typed out a nice email about potential problems with Gouramis and > had an email hiccup and lost it all. Here is a link from WetWebMedia > about Dwarf Gouramis. The gist of my email was crummy fish from Asian > fish farms being imported already diseased. > > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfgdis.htm > <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfgdis.htm> > > LOL yes, I am lucky I have a LFS, most of them go out of business sooner > > or later, this one has been in town a couple of years so far with > > success. They have their fish sent in on Alaska Airlines. The main issue > > they have is with sensitive fish, they don't like the bumpy traveling, > > such as gourami's, most of their gourami's tend to die soon after > > arriving. I recently tried to add two more dwarf gourami's to my tank > > thinking they were females, and turns out they must be males or my 2 > > males are too territorial to have any females in the tank, they picked > > on them so much I had to take them back out right away, one died and I > > have 1 in with my betta for now until I figure something else out. The > > betta is leaving him alone so it seems okay for now. May have to bring > > him back to the store or something. > > Amber > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 7:01 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > > LOL yes, I am lucky I have a LFS, most of them go out of business sooner > > or later, this one has been in town a couple of years so far with > > success. They have their fish sent in on Alaska Airlines. The main issue > > they have is with sensitive fish, they don't like the bumpy traveling, > > such as gourami's, most of their gourami's tend to die soon after > > arriving. I recently tried to add two more dwarf gourami's to my tank > > thinking they were females, and turns out they must be males or my 2 > > males are too territorial to have any females in the tank, they picked > > on them so much I had to take them back out right away, one died and I > > have 1 in with my betta for now until I figure something else out. The > > betta is leaving him alone so it seems okay for now. May have to bring > > him back to the store or something. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > It sounds like you should be happy you even have an LFS... of > course, have > > > you tried ordering from Russia? I hear it's closer. ;-) (Go Sarah > > > 2012) :-D > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:45 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > > > > > > Yes I agree, a lot of their items don't have enough information on them > > > (even on their pet site not the live fish site). I wish I could have > live > > > fish shipped here, but since it takes 2 days for overnight service > no fish > > > places will usually ship here :( So I have to make do with the > > > selection at > > > my LFS. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Yep, Amber. They sure do. I've never owned Glow-Light Tetras but they > > > > actually look like mini-me's of the Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that I > > > > did have except mine had really red eyes. Here's a couple of other > > > > pics/profiles for comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d> > > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1d>> > > > > .html > > > > > > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1> > > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1>> > > > > d.html> > > > > > > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1> > > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1>> > > > > d.html > > > > > > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1> > > > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1 > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/characins_stats/stats_characins1>> > > > > d.html> > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php>> > > > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php>>> > > > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php>> > > > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php> > > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hemigrammus_erythrozonus.php>>> > > > > > > > > > I like that website "ThatFishPlace" (the sister site to ThatPetPlace) > > > > but I'm disappointed in their listing for the Glow-Light Tetra... > > > > partly because they spell it Glo-lite but mostly since they do not > > > > have a Latin name for the fish on their listing. This is how there is > > > > so much confusion on common names and folks not knowing what they are > > > > buying. And many folks might think they are buying Glofish which is > > > > the trademarked name for the genetically enhanced Zebra Danio's. > > > > > > > > A Google search on "glo-lite tetra" found only 323 hits. A Google > > > > search on "glow-light tetra" found 3,160 hits... 10 times more. A > > > > Google on the Latin name, "Hemigrammus erythrozonus", found 38,600 > > > > hits... 100 times more than the mis-named "glo-lite". > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:22 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > > > > > > > > They do look a lot like the glo-lite tetra's here, but the red isn't > > > > as dark on your tetra's. > > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>>> > > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>>> > > > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>>> > > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>> > > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web> > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/19942/product.web>>> >> > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I just posted pictures of the Mystery Tetra's but the Moderator has > > > > > generously included them on the photo page. They are also in the > > > > > album titled Bill's Fish. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > > Tested on: 11/8/2008 8:55:07 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32727	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish

Hi Amber, Even our Domestic fish farms can carry this. I used to have a few dwarf gourami and really like them but would not trust buying them if they were farm raised. If I just had to have some I would try aquabid from someone that had bred them and is not just reselling them. I understand your restrictions on shipping may exclude your from using aquabid. Expense is probably your biggest problem as I know fish get shipped all over the world and tend to survive, we just have to be able to afford to do it. -Mike Well I'm not quite sure of where my LFS store precisely gets their fish, they just have 2 wholesalers (one in florida and one in california), so I'm not sure if theirs are the crummy fish you speak of :) Amber -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 1:59 pm Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish Well I'm not quite sure of where my LFS store precisely gets their fish, they just have 2 wholesalers (one in florida and one in california), so I'm not sure if theirs are the crummy fish you speak of :) Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > I typed out a nice email about potential problems with Gouramis and > had an email hiccup and lost it all. Here is a link from WetWebMedia > about Dwarf Gouramis. The gist of my email was crummy fish from Asian > fish farms being imported already diseased. > > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfgdis.htm > <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfgdis.htm> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32728	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Hey Mike.. otto, otto, otto, otto, otto. Are you ready for the white-coats yet? LOL I never really thought about it myself since I don't really have any friends that keep fish down here around me but when typing, I would always pronounce it as "otto" but I certainly understand that it should be "oh toe"... but couldn't it be o-toc-inc-lus also? LOL Here's what Wiki says and it sounds reasonable. Otocinclus is pronounced "ahto-SINK-luss". The name is derived from the Greek word oto, ear, and the Latin word cinclus, meaning a latticework; an allusion to the holes in the head in the region of the ear. BTW.. to find the pronunciation (so.. why is pronunciation spelled different from pronounced... losing the "o" in the second syllable?) of just about any word, just type the word in Google followed by the word - pronounce - and you should get a couple of good hits... or if Google has the word in it's own Dictionary, there will be a definition link on the top right and that page will have the pronunciation spelled out but also a button to hear an audio of the pronunciation. Here's a webpage called "A Fishkeeper's Guide to Pronouncing Scientific Names" by Michael Vasey, Ph.D http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=News <http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=27> &file=article&sid=27 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 4:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not Bill, Even scientific names have different pronunciations in different regions, sometimes in the same fish club :) I took a medical terminology class for work at my hospital and many words have the same root meaning. When I hear fish people hammer the pronunciation of similar words I use at work I cringe. Otocinclus in particular, Oh Toe not OTTO, drives me nuts. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 8:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not Thanks Steve, But aside from learning the scientific names of the fish I'd love to be able to pronounce them properly. I think you'll agree that as far as the common names go; they almost always change by where your standing at the time! People in some states don't call the same fish by the same name as other states. Sometime it's worse than that ------------they don't call them by the same name from one town to another town! when you can, good hearing from you, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:47 PM Here is a tome that is an "official" listing of common names for scientists: _Common and Scientific Names of Fishes from the United States, Canada, and Mexico_. This edition is put together by John S. Nelson. There is also another publication, but its title is lost to me right now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com[mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not LOL... NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, trust a pet store to have the fish properly labeled... nor 95% of the other info they might give out. LOL Even LFS' have problems some times but pet stores, wally-world pet depts, etc. are not the place to look for proper information. My suggestion for future purchases. Look at the fish in the tanks first, write down the names they have them labeled with. Go home and do a little research to verify BEFORE buying. Hopefully you didn't buy a school of Pacu's or Arowana's... but at least you wouldn't have to worry about them pipes leaking in your basement since you'll have to turn it into a fish tank. LOL Here are some other "Red-Eyed Tetra" or "Redeyed Tetra" or "Red Eye Tetra" profiles but they all match the Pictures link on the Mongabay profile. http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=10674 http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ tet-rede. htm http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .php http://www.elmersaq uarium.com/ 10tetra_redeye. htm Now, on a side note, on one of the tanks I adopted/saved back in 2005, pre-Katrina, I got some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that had red eyes so check out the images of them on the net to see if maybe that is what you have. Here's a decent pic of one of them. http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_buenosm. php Note that these fish (and the Red-Eyed Tetra probably get too large... close to 3" each) for a 10G tank or smaller tanks since they should be kept in schools of six, that's about three too many for a 10G tank. One of the weird things my Albino Buenos Aires Tetras would do is get in a school in the outflow of the filter and swim against the current, kind of hovering in place while they were actually swimming quite rapidly... almost like one of them new-fangled indoor swimming pools where the water flows from end to end while the swimmer stays in place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Len, They gots the names wrong! Even the common names! Whatever the fish is that I have it ain't what they have! Might take a few days here but I'm going to try too post pictures. Its the only clear way to ID themn properly. Darn Wally-World! Thanks again for the corrected link, Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in the common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the profile on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on the first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page direct link. http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish and type in the common name. I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct hit so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a profile with the common name listed. A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin name. Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was not coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Hi Lenny, As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all neon's. It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting into 2nd year chemistry to support them. Bill --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft water fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a little to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to get into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding hardeners and testing often. If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to choose from. After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda to dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your fishes preferred range. Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters and then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles of those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to choose from. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not Ph 6.0 No2 .3 Nh3/4 .25 GH 2 Kh 1 Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 4:05:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 4:22:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32729	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish

I have tried asking companies to ship here, but because it takes 2 days for an overnight delivery most of them refuse to do it due to their "health guarantee". I wish I had the option to have stuff sent in through fed ex though. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Hi Amber, > > Even our Domestic fish farms can carry this. I used to have a few > dwarf gourami and really like them but would not trust buying them if > they were farm raised. If I just had to have some I would try aquabid > from someone that had bred them and is not just reselling them. > > I understand your restrictions on shipping may exclude your from using > aquabid. Expense is probably your biggest problem as I know fish get > shipped all over the world and tend to survive, we just have to be > able to afford to do it. > > -Mike > > Well I'm not quite sure of where my LFS store precisely gets their fish, > > they just have 2 wholesalers (one in florida and one in california), so > > I'm not sure if theirs are the crummy fish you speak of :) > > Amber > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 1:59 pm > Subject: Re: Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's Fish > > Well I'm not quite sure of where my LFS store precisely gets their fish, > > they just have 2 wholesalers (one in florida and one in california), so > > I'm not sure if theirs are the crummy fish you speak of :) > > Amber > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > I typed out a nice email about potential problems with Gouramis and > > > had an email hiccup and lost it all. Here is a link from WetWebMedia > > > about Dwarf Gouramis. The gist of my email was crummy fish from Asian > > > fish farms being imported already diseased. > > > > > > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfgdis.htm > <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfgdis.htm> > > > <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfgdis.htm > <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dwfgdis.htm>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32730	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich

Actually for treating ich one of the ways to do it is to turn up the heat. The change in temp overnight is normal. Joey **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32731	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

Been looking through the links, there are definitely a lot of pictures of plants, which is great. I love seeing setups so that I can figure out how to organize my plants best. I have a few pictures that I took of my plants so far, and I really don't know exactly what I have as the LFS doesn't label their plants, they are just "bunch or potted" LOL. I will add them to my photos under "Amber Berglund". I want to get a few more of small/slow growing plants for up front in my tank, I have several tall ones in the back so far. Amber harry perry wrote: > > Amano's Tanks - www.takashiamano.kit.net/tanques1.html > > AquaDesign - www.aquadesign.pl > > Aquatic Eden - aquatic-eden.blogspot.com > > Chuck Gadd - www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm > > Erik Leung - www.e-aquaria.com > > Fabio Ghidini - www.fabioghidini.it > > George Booth - users.frii.com/gbooth/AquaticConcepts > > Ghazanfar Ghori - www.aquaticscape.com > > Jared Weinbeiger - www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium > > Jay Luto - www.greenstouch.com > > Jeff and Mike Senske - www.aquariumdesigngroup.com > > Jeff Ludwig - www.rockytop.net > > Luis Navarro - www.mynatureaquariums.com > > Maurizio Nicosia - www.naturacquario.net > > Max Gallade - www.apisto.bravepages.com > > Nancy Kramer - www.digitalphotoartistry.com > > Oliver Knott - www.pbase.com/plantella > > Randy Carey - www.characin.com > > Steve Pituch - users.ev1.net/~spituch/ > > Steve Pushak - home.infinet.net/teban > > Tom Barr - www.barrreport.com > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32732	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

Amber, I haven't looked through all the links that Harry provided but I know one reasonably simple site to navigate and sort plants is http://www.PlantGeek.net and their Plant Guide page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php has a section called Aquascape Placement http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 with the plants broken up into Foreground, Middle, Backdrop and Floating so you could check out the Foreground section for plants that stay small for the front of the tank.... and then hopefully your LFS has some of them. LOL Unfortunately, you still need to ID your plants so hopefully some of the folks out here will check out your pics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list and ID them. It would be best if you took close-ups of an individual plant since I see you have right side and left side and others. I haven't had a chance to look at them and blow them up to see how clear they are but the thumbnails look OK. At least most plants will hold still and pose for you! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 4:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care Been looking through the links, there are definitely a lot of pictures of plants, which is great. I love seeing setups so that I can figure out how to organize my plants best. I have a few pictures that I took of my plants so far, and I really don't know exactly what I have as the LFS doesn't label their plants, they are just "bunch or potted" LOL. I will add them to my photos under "Amber Berglund". I want to get a few more of small/slow growing plants for up front in my tank, I have several tall ones in the back so far. Amber harry perry wrote: > > Amano's Tanks - www.takashiamano.kit.net/tanques1.html > > AquaDesign - www.aquadesign.pl > > Aquatic Eden - aquatic-eden.blogspot.com > > Chuck Gadd - www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm > > Erik Leung - www.e-aquaria.com > > Fabio Ghidini - www.fabioghidini.it > > George Booth - users.frii.com/gbooth/AquaticConcepts > > Ghazanfar Ghori - www.aquaticscape.com > > Jared Weinbeiger - www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium > > Jay Luto - www.greenstouch.com > > Jeff and Mike Senske - www.aquariumdesigngroup.com > > Jeff Ludwig - www.rockytop.net > > Luis Navarro - www.mynatureaquariums.com > > Maurizio Nicosia - www.naturacquario.net > > Max Gallade - www.apisto.bravepages.com > > Nancy Kramer - www.digitalphotoartistry.com > > Oliver Knott - www.pbase.com/plantella > > Randy Carey - www.characin.com > > Steve Pituch - users.ev1.net/~spituch/ > > Steve Pushak - home.infinet.net/teban > > Tom Barr - www.barrreport.com > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 4:59:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32733	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

Good point, thanks Lenny. I will get some good pics of my plants. I know what 1 or 2 of them are from pics on plantgeek.net (which thank you for, I was using the site yesterday to sort out low-moderate light requiring plants, hehe). I'm pretty sure I have brazilian pennywort and somewhat sure I have a foxtail (green one). I am assuming I also have a 2-3 different kinds of Crypt's as well. I think I may have some type of Anubias as well, but will get pics of everything and see if anyone has any ideas for me ;) thanks, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Amber, > > I haven't looked through all the links that Harry provided but I know one > reasonably simple site to navigate and sort plants is > http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> and their Plant > Guide page > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> has a section called Aquascape > Placement http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> with the > plants broken up into Foreground, Middle, Backdrop and Floating so you > could > check out the Foreground section for plants that stay small for the > front of > the tank.... and then hopefully your LFS has some of them. LOL > > Unfortunately, you still need to ID your plants so hopefully some of the > folks out here will check out your pics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list> > and ID them. It would be best if you took close-ups of an individual plant > since I see you have right side and left side and others. I haven't had a > chance to look at them and blow them up to see how clear they are but the > thumbnails look OK. At least most plants will hold still and pose for you! > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 4:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > Been looking through the links, there are definitely a lot of pictures of > plants, which is great. I love seeing setups so that I can figure out > how to > organize my plants best. I have a few pictures that I took of my plants so > far, and I really don't know exactly what I have as the LFS doesn't label > their plants, they are just "bunch or potted" LOL. I will add them to my > photos under "Amber Berglund". I want to get a few more of small/slow > growing plants for up front in my tank, I have several tall ones in > the back > so far. > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > Amano's Tanks - www.takashiamano.kit.net/tanques1.html > > > > AquaDesign - www.aquadesign.pl > > > > Aquatic Eden - aquatic-eden.blogspot.com > > > > Chuck Gadd - www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm > > > > Erik Leung - www.e-aquaria.com > > > > Fabio Ghidini - www.fabioghidini.it > > > > George Booth - users.frii.com/gbooth/AquaticConcepts > > > > Ghazanfar Ghori - www.aquaticscape.com > > > > Jared Weinbeiger - www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium > > > > Jay Luto - www.greenstouch.com > > > > Jeff and Mike Senske - www.aquariumdesigngroup.com > > > > Jeff Ludwig - www.rockytop.net > > > > Luis Navarro - www.mynatureaquariums.com > > > > Maurizio Nicosia - www.naturacquario.net > > > > Max Gallade - www.apisto.bravepages.com > > > > Nancy Kramer - www.digitalphotoartistry.com > > > > Oliver Knott - www.pbase.com/plantella > > > > Randy Carey - www.characin.com > > > > Steve Pituch - users.ev1.net/~spituch/ > > > > Steve Pushak - home.infinet.net/teban > > > > Tom Barr - www.barrreport.com > > > > Harry > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 4:59:33 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32734	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

LOL... the "green one".. well that narrows it down for us. Which one are you referring to? This is why I suggested individual pics or at least edit the pics (with MS-Paint or other similar program) to circle or snip out the plants you need ID's on. The long fuzzy string type plant, with lots of needles on them, on the picture, "right side of the tank", and on the right side of that picture appears to be Hornwort. There are two varieties that are common but yours looks most like this one. http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm Close Up Pic - http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg Compare them and see if that's the one you have. If not, check the Floating plants category and look at the other Hornwort. While these plants can be "planted", they do not develop a good root structure but rather stringer type roots, like Anacharis does. I use to plant mine, but in 2" or 3" clay pots and stuck the bottom of a bunch in the pot and then filled it with gravel to anchor the bunch. I also do this with some of my Anacharis but leave some of it floating as well. The floating "mini-lily pad" type plants, that have a single or couple of stringy roots dipping down into the water about, appear to be Pennywort but your picture is from underneath so I'm not positive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care Good point, thanks Lenny. I will get some good pics of my plants. I know what 1 or 2 of them are from pics on plantgeek.net (which thank you for, I was using the site yesterday to sort out low-moderate light requiring plants, hehe). I'm pretty sure I have brazilian pennywort and somewhat sure I have a foxtail (green one). I am assuming I also have a 2-3 different kinds of Crypt's as well. I think I may have some type of Anubias as well, but will get pics of everything and see if anyone has any ideas for me ;) thanks, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Amber, > > I haven't looked through all the links that Harry provided but I know > one reasonably simple site to navigate and sort plants is > http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > > and their Plant > Guide page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > has a section called > Aquascape Placement > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > with the > plants broken up into Foreground, Middle, Backdrop and Floating so you > could check out the Foreground section for plants that stay small for > the front of the tank.... and then hopefully your LFS has some of > them. LOL > > Unfortunately, you still need to ID your plants so hopefully some of > the folks out here will check out your pics > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > list> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > list> > and ID them. It would be best if you took close-ups of an > individual plant since I see you have right side and left side and others. I haven't had a chance to look at them and blow them up to see how clear they are but the thumbnails look OK. At least most plants will hold still and pose for you! > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 4:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > Been looking through the links, there are definitely a lot of pictures > of plants, which is great. I love seeing setups so that I can figure > out how to organize my plants best. I have a few pictures that I took > of my plants so far, and I really don't know exactly what I have as > the LFS doesn't label their plants, they are just "bunch or potted" > LOL. I will add them to my photos under "Amber Berglund". I want to > get a few more of small/slow growing plants for up front in my tank, I > have several tall ones in the back so far. > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > Amano's Tanks - www.takashiamano.kit.net/tanques1.html > > > > AquaDesign - www.aquadesign.pl > > > > Aquatic Eden - aquatic-eden.blogspot.com > > > > Chuck Gadd - www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm > > > > Erik Leung - www.e-aquaria.com > > > > Fabio Ghidini - www.fabioghidini.it > > > > George Booth - users.frii.com/gbooth/AquaticConcepts > > > > Ghazanfar Ghori - www.aquaticscape.com > > > > Jared Weinbeiger - www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium > > > > Jay Luto - www.greenstouch.com > > > > Jeff and Mike Senske - www.aquariumdesigngroup.com > > > > Jeff Ludwig - www.rockytop.net > > > > Luis Navarro - www.mynatureaquariums.com > > > > Maurizio Nicosia - www.naturacquario.net > > > > Max Gallade - www.apisto.bravepages.com > > > > Nancy Kramer - www.digitalphotoartistry.com > > > > Oliver Knott - www.pbase.com/plantella > > > > Randy Carey - www.characin.com > > > > Steve Pituch - users.ev1.net/~spituch/ > > > > Steve Pushak - home.infinet.net/teban > > > > Tom Barr - www.barrreport.com > > > > Harry > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > 4:59:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 5:21:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 5:36:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32735	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Fish are hard to photograph

While trying to photograph my plants my angelfish decided they wanted in on the pics, LOL. Had a hard time with them swimming in front of the camera, little beggars thought I was going to feed them again ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Our own \\Steve// did a long post on photographing fish a few years ago. > Here's the link since I have it in my IE favorites folder. > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13061 > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13061> > > Here's a couple of others that I also have in that folder. > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/photograp > <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/photograp> > hy.htm > > http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/photography.html > <http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/photography.html> > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php> > > Of course, if you just trained your fish to "strike-a-pose" whenever they > see the camera, many of these articles would not be needed. ;-) Playing > Madonna's "Vogue" might help them get in the mood. LOL > > On a side note, I just peeked at your pics and I think Bill would be > jealous... although I see your GloFish Zebra Danio's didn't pose very well > in most of the pics. You might have to crack the whip on them. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 1:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish are hard to photograph > > Well I managed to get a few pictures of my fish (mostly at night under the > Moonlight LED's), 3 of them as still waiting for approval but I got a > really > good one of my male Dwarf Flame Gourami and my yoyo loaches, and my baby > gold severum is in the background. You can also see my glofish > danio's, but > those darn fish move so fast it's going to be near impossible for me > to get > a clear photo of them. I've come close so far but that's about it. I > have my > camera set on the fastest setting for capturing moving targets but the > glofish are apparently too fast for my camera. > The photos are all under "Amber Berglund" in the group photos, if anyone > wants to see my pretty glowing fish :) > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 6:25:58 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32736	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

Sorry I was going with the common name (green foxtail), it looks like the cutleaf watermilfoil listed on plantgeek, it doesn't look so much like the pic you thought it was. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > LOL... the "green one".. well that narrows it down for us. Which one are > you referring to? This is why I suggested individual pics or at least edit > the pics (with MS-Paint or other similar program) to circle or snip > out the > plants you need ID's on. > > The long fuzzy string type plant, with lots of needles on them, on the > picture, "right side of the tank", and on the right side of that picture > appears to be Hornwort. There are two varieties that are common but yours > looks most like this one. http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> Close Up > Pic - http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > Compare them and see if that's the one you have. If not, check the > Floating > plants category and look at the other Hornwort. While these plants can be > "planted", they do not develop a good root structure but rather stringer > type roots, like Anacharis does. I use to plant mine, but in 2" or 3" clay > pots and stuck the bottom of a bunch in the pot and then filled it with > gravel to anchor the bunch. I also do this with some of my Anacharis but > leave some of it floating as well. > > The floating "mini-lily pad" type plants, that have a single or couple of > stringy roots dipping down into the water about, appear to be > Pennywort but > your picture is from underneath so I'm not positive. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > Good point, thanks Lenny. I will get some good pics of my plants. I know > what 1 or 2 of them are from pics on plantgeek.net (which thank you for, I > was using the site yesterday to sort out low-moderate light requiring > plants, hehe). I'm pretty sure I have brazilian pennywort and somewhat > sure > I have a foxtail (green one). I am assuming I also have a 2-3 different > kinds of Crypt's as well. I think I may have some type of Anubias as well, > but will get pics of everything and see if anyone has any ideas for me ;) > > thanks, > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Amber, > > > > I haven't looked through all the links that Harry provided but I know > > one reasonably simple site to navigate and sort plants is > > http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > and their Plant > > Guide page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>> > has a section called > > Aquascape Placement > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>> > with the > > plants broken up into Foreground, Middle, Backdrop and Floating so you > > could check out the Foreground section for plants that stay small for > > the front of the tank.... and then hopefully your LFS has some of > > them. LOL > > > > Unfortunately, you still need to ID your plants so hopefully some of > > the folks out here will check out your pics > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l> > > ist > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > list> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > list > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > list> > and ID them. It would be best if you took close-ups of an > > individual plant since I see you have right side and left side and > others. > I haven't had a chance to look at them and blow them up to see how clear > they are but the thumbnails look OK. At least most plants will hold still > and pose for you! > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 4:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > Been looking through the links, there are definitely a lot of pictures > > of plants, which is great. I love seeing setups so that I can figure > > out how to organize my plants best. I have a few pictures that I took > > of my plants so far, and I really don't know exactly what I have as > > the LFS doesn't label their plants, they are just "bunch or potted" > > LOL. I will add them to my photos under "Amber Berglund". I want to > > get a few more of small/slow growing plants for up front in my tank, I > > have several tall ones in the back so far. > > > > Amber > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > Amano's Tanks - www.takashiamano.kit.net/tanques1.html > > > > > > AquaDesign - www.aquadesign.pl > > > > > > Aquatic Eden - aquatic-eden.blogspot.com > > > > > > Chuck Gadd - www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm > > > > > > Erik Leung - www.e-aquaria.com > > > > > > Fabio Ghidini - www.fabioghidini.it > > > > > > George Booth - users.frii.com/gbooth/AquaticConcepts > > > > > > Ghazanfar Ghori - www.aquaticscape.com > > > > > > Jared Weinbeiger - www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium > > > > > > Jay Luto - www.greenstouch.com > > > > > > Jeff and Mike Senske - www.aquariumdesigngroup.com > > > > > > Jeff Ludwig - www.rockytop.net > > > > > > Luis Navarro - www.mynatureaquariums.com > > > > > > Maurizio Nicosia - www.naturacquario.net > > > > > > Max Gallade - www.apisto.bravepages.com > > > > > > Nancy Kramer - www.digitalphotoartistry.com > > > > > > Oliver Knott - www.pbase.com/plantella > > > > > > Randy Carey - www.characin.com > > > > > > Steve Pituch - users.ev1.net/~spituch/ > > > > > > Steve Pushak - home.infinet.net/teban > > > > > > Tom Barr - www.barrreport.com > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > >> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 4:59:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 5:21:04 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 5:36:11 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32737	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

Okay I got individual pics up of all my unknown plants, the only one I'm really sure about is the floating pennywort, LOL. The rest I'm just guessing on. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > Sorry I was going with the common name (green foxtail), it looks like > the cutleaf watermilfoil listed on plantgeek, it doesn't look so much > like the pic you thought it was. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > LOL... the "green one".. well that narrows it down for us. Which one are > > you referring to? This is why I suggested individual pics or at > least edit > > the pics (with MS-Paint or other similar program) to circle or snip > > out the > > plants you need ID's on. > > > > The long fuzzy string type plant, with lots of needles on them, on the > > picture, "right side of the tank", and on the right side of that picture > > appears to be Hornwort. There are two varieties that are common but > yours > > looks most like this one. http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> Close Up > > Pic - http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> > > > > Compare them and see if that's the one you have. If not, check the > > Floating > > plants category and look at the other Hornwort. While these plants > can be > > "planted", they do not develop a good root structure but rather stringer > > type roots, like Anacharis does. I use to plant mine, but in 2" or > 3" clay > > pots and stuck the bottom of a bunch in the pot and then filled it with > > gravel to anchor the bunch. I also do this with some of my Anacharis but > > leave some of it floating as well. > > > > The floating "mini-lily pad" type plants, that have a single or > couple of > > stringy roots dipping down into the water about, appear to be > > Pennywort but > > your picture is from underneath so I'm not positive. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > Good point, thanks Lenny. I will get some good pics of my plants. I know > > what 1 or 2 of them are from pics on plantgeek.net (which thank you > for, I > > was using the site yesterday to sort out low-moderate light requiring > > plants, hehe). I'm pretty sure I have brazilian pennywort and somewhat > > sure > > I have a foxtail (green one). I am assuming I also have a 2-3 different > > kinds of Crypt's as well. I think I may have some type of Anubias as > well, > > but will get pics of everything and see if anyone has any ideas for > me ;) > > > > thanks, > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > I haven't looked through all the links that Harry provided but I know > > > one reasonably simple site to navigate and sort plants is > > > http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>>> > > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>>> > > and their Plant > > > Guide page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>>> > has a section called > > > Aquascape Placement > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>>> > with the > > > plants broken up into Foreground, Middle, Backdrop and Floating so you > > > could check out the Foreground section for plants that stay small for > > > the front of the tank.... and then hopefully your LFS has some of > > > them. LOL > > > > > > Unfortunately, you still need to ID your plants so hopefully some of > > > the folks out here will check out your pics > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l>> > > > ist > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/>> > > > list> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/>> > > > list > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/>> > > > list> > and ID them. It would be best if you took close-ups of an > > > individual plant since I see you have right side and left side and > > others. > > I haven't had a chance to look at them and blow them up to see how clear > > they are but the thumbnails look OK. At least most plants will hold > still > > and pose for you! > > > ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 4:46 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > > > Been looking through the links, there are definitely a lot of pictures > > > of plants, which is great. I love seeing setups so that I can figure > > > out how to organize my plants best. I have a few pictures that I took > > > of my plants so far, and I really don't know exactly what I have as > > > the LFS doesn't label their plants, they are just "bunch or potted" > > > LOL. I will add them to my photos under "Amber Berglund". I want to > > > get a few more of small/slow growing plants for up front in my tank, I > > > have several tall ones in the back so far. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > Amano's Tanks - www.takashiamano.kit.net/tanques1.html > > > > > > > > AquaDesign - www.aquadesign.pl > > > > > > > > Aquatic Eden - aquatic-eden.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > Chuck Gadd - www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm > > > > > > > > Erik Leung - www.e-aquaria.com > > > > > > > > Fabio Ghidini - www.fabioghidini.it > > > > > > > > George Booth - users.frii.com/gbooth/AquaticConcepts > > > > > > > > Ghazanfar Ghori - www.aquaticscape.com > > > > > > > > Jared Weinbeiger - www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium > > > > > > > > Jay Luto - www.greenstouch.com > > > > > > > > Jeff and Mike Senske - www.aquariumdesigngroup.com > > > > > > > > Jeff Ludwig - www.rockytop.net > > > > > > > > Luis Navarro - www.mynatureaquariums.com > > > > > > > > Maurizio Nicosia - www.naturacquario.net > > > > > > > > Max Gallade - www.apisto.bravepages.com > > > > > > > > Nancy Kramer - www.digitalphotoartistry.com > > > > > > > > Oliver Knott - www.pbase.com/plantella > > > > > > > > Randy Carey - www.characin.com > > > > > > > > Steve Pituch - users.ev1.net/~spituch/ > > > > > > > > Steve Pushak - home.infinet.net/teban > > > > > > > > Tom Barr - www.barrreport.com > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>>> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>>> > >> : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > > 4:59:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > Tested on: 11/9/2008 5:21:04 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > Tested on: 11/9/2008 5:36:11 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32738	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

I'm curious how people manage to clean their gravel well enough with plants that are more like "ground cover"? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > Sorry I was going with the common name (green foxtail), it looks like > the cutleaf watermilfoil listed on plantgeek, it doesn't look so much > like the pic you thought it was. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > LOL... the "green one".. well that narrows it down for us. Which one are > > you referring to? This is why I suggested individual pics or at > least edit > > the pics (with MS-Paint or other similar program) to circle or snip > > out the > > plants you need ID's on. > > > > The long fuzzy string type plant, with lots of needles on them, on the > > picture, "right side of the tank", and on the right side of that picture > > appears to be Hornwort. There are two varieties that are common but > yours > > looks most like this one. http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> Close Up > > Pic - http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> > > > > Compare them and see if that's the one you have. If not, check the > > Floating > > plants category and look at the other Hornwort. While these plants > can be > > "planted", they do not develop a good root structure but rather stringer > > type roots, like Anacharis does. I use to plant mine, but in 2" or > 3" clay > > pots and stuck the bottom of a bunch in the pot and then filled it with > > gravel to anchor the bunch. I also do this with some of my Anacharis but > > leave some of it floating as well. > > > > The floating "mini-lily pad" type plants, that have a single or > couple of > > stringy roots dipping down into the water about, appear to be > > Pennywort but > > your picture is from underneath so I'm not positive. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > Good point, thanks Lenny. I will get some good pics of my plants. I know > > what 1 or 2 of them are from pics on plantgeek.net (which thank you > for, I > > was using the site yesterday to sort out low-moderate light requiring > > plants, hehe). I'm pretty sure I have brazilian pennywort and somewhat > > sure > > I have a foxtail (green one). I am assuming I also have a 2-3 different > > kinds of Crypt's as well. I think I may have some type of Anubias as > well, > > but will get pics of everything and see if anyone has any ideas for > me ;) > > > > thanks, > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > I haven't looked through all the links that Harry provided but I know > > > one reasonably simple site to navigate and sort plants is > > > http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>>> > > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>>> > > and their Plant > > > Guide page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>>> > has a section called > > > Aquascape Placement > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>>> > with the > > > plants broken up into Foreground, Middle, Backdrop and Floating so you > > > could check out the Foreground section for plants that stay small for > > > the front of the tank.... and then hopefully your LFS has some of > > > them. LOL > > > > > > Unfortunately, you still need to ID your plants so hopefully some of > > > the folks out here will check out your pics > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l>> > > > ist > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/>> > > > list> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/>> > > > list > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/>> > > > list> > and ID them. It would be best if you took close-ups of an > > > individual plant since I see you have right side and left side and > > others. > > I haven't had a chance to look at them and blow them up to see how clear > > they are but the thumbnails look OK. At least most plants will hold > still > > and pose for you! > > > ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 4:46 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > > > Been looking through the links, there are definitely a lot of pictures > > > of plants, which is great. I love seeing setups so that I can figure > > > out how to organize my plants best. I have a few pictures that I took > > > of my plants so far, and I really don't know exactly what I have as > > > the LFS doesn't label their plants, they are just "bunch or potted" > > > LOL. I will add them to my photos under "Amber Berglund". I want to > > > get a few more of small/slow growing plants for up front in my tank, I > > > have several tall ones in the back so far. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > Amano's Tanks - www.takashiamano.kit.net/tanques1.html > > > > > > > > AquaDesign - www.aquadesign.pl > > > > > > > > Aquatic Eden - aquatic-eden.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > Chuck Gadd - www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm > > > > > > > > Erik Leung - www.e-aquaria.com > > > > > > > > Fabio Ghidini - www.fabioghidini.it > > > > > > > > George Booth - users.frii.com/gbooth/AquaticConcepts > > > > > > > > Ghazanfar Ghori - www.aquaticscape.com > > > > > > > > Jared Weinbeiger - www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium > > > > > > > > Jay Luto - www.greenstouch.com > > > > > > > > Jeff and Mike Senske - www.aquariumdesigngroup.com > > > > > > > > Jeff Ludwig - www.rockytop.net > > > > > > > > Luis Navarro - www.mynatureaquariums.com > > > > > > > > Maurizio Nicosia - www.naturacquario.net > > > > > > > > Max Gallade - www.apisto.bravepages.com > > > > > > > > Nancy Kramer - www.digitalphotoartistry.com > > > > > > > > Oliver Knott - www.pbase.com/plantella > > > > > > > > Randy Carey - www.characin.com > > > > > > > > Steve Pituch - users.ev1.net/~spituch/ > > > > > > > > Steve Pushak - home.infinet.net/teban > > > > > > > > Tom Barr - www.barrreport.com > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>>> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>>> > >> : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > > 4:59:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > Tested on: 11/9/2008 5:21:04 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > Tested on: 11/9/2008 5:36:11 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32739	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

Sorry, looks more like this to me: http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > Sorry I was going with the common name (green foxtail), it looks like > the cutleaf watermilfoil listed on plantgeek, it doesn't look so much > like the pic you thought it was. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > LOL... the "green one".. well that narrows it down for us. Which one are > > you referring to? This is why I suggested individual pics or at > least edit > > the pics (with MS-Paint or other similar program) to circle or snip > > out the > > plants you need ID's on. > > > > The long fuzzy string type plant, with lots of needles on them, on the > > picture, "right side of the tank", and on the right side of that picture > > appears to be Hornwort. There are two varieties that are common but > yours > > looks most like this one. http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> Close Up > > Pic - http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> > > > > Compare them and see if that's the one you have. If not, check the > > Floating > > plants category and look at the other Hornwort. While these plants > can be > > "planted", they do not develop a good root structure but rather stringer > > type roots, like Anacharis does. I use to plant mine, but in 2" or > 3" clay > > pots and stuck the bottom of a bunch in the pot and then filled it with > > gravel to anchor the bunch. I also do this with some of my Anacharis but > > leave some of it floating as well. > > > > The floating "mini-lily pad" type plants, that have a single or > couple of > > stringy roots dipping down into the water about, appear to be > > Pennywort but > > your picture is from underneath so I'm not positive. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > Good point, thanks Lenny. I will get some good pics of my plants. I know > > what 1 or 2 of them are from pics on plantgeek.net (which thank you > for, I > > was using the site yesterday to sort out low-moderate light requiring > > plants, hehe). I'm pretty sure I have brazilian pennywort and somewhat > > sure > > I have a foxtail (green one). I am assuming I also have a 2-3 different > > kinds of Crypt's as well. I think I may have some type of Anubias as > well, > > but will get pics of everything and see if anyone has any ideas for > me ;) > > > > thanks, > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > I haven't looked through all the links that Harry provided but I know > > > one reasonably simple site to navigate and sort plants is > > > http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>>> > > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>>> > > and their Plant > > > Guide page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php>>> > has a section called > > > Aquascape Placement > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=5>>> > with the > > > plants broken up into Foreground, Middle, Backdrop and Floating so you > > > could check out the Foreground section for plants that stay small for > > > the front of the tank.... and then hopefully your LFS has some of > > > them. LOL > > > > > > Unfortunately, you still need to ID your plants so hopefully some of > > > the folks out here will check out your pics > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/l>> > > > ist > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/>> > > > list> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/>> > > > list > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/>> > > > list> > and ID them. It would be best if you took close-ups of an > > > individual plant since I see you have right side and left side and > > others. > > I haven't had a chance to look at them and blow them up to see how clear > > they are but the thumbnails look OK. At least most plants will hold > still > > and pose for you! > > > ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 4:46 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > > > Been looking through the links, there are definitely a lot of pictures > > > of plants, which is great. I love seeing setups so that I can figure > > > out how to organize my plants best. I have a few pictures that I took > > > of my plants so far, and I really don't know exactly what I have as > > > the LFS doesn't label their plants, they are just "bunch or potted" > > > LOL. I will add them to my photos under "Amber Berglund". I want to > > > get a few more of small/slow growing plants for up front in my tank, I > > > have several tall ones in the back so far. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > Amano's Tanks - www.takashiamano.kit.net/tanques1.html > > > > > > > > AquaDesign - www.aquadesign.pl > > > > > > > > Aquatic Eden - aquatic-eden.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > Chuck Gadd - www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm > > > > > > > > Erik Leung - www.e-aquaria.com > > > > > > > > Fabio Ghidini - www.fabioghidini.it > > > > > > > > George Booth - users.frii.com/gbooth/AquaticConcepts > > > > > > > > Ghazanfar Ghori - www.aquaticscape.com > > > > > > > > Jared Weinbeiger - www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium > > > > > > > > Jay Luto - www.greenstouch.com > > > > > > > > Jeff and Mike Senske - www.aquariumdesigngroup.com > > > > > > > > Jeff Ludwig - www.rockytop.net > > > > > > > > Luis Navarro - www.mynatureaquariums.com > > > > > > > > Maurizio Nicosia - www.naturacquario.net > > > > > > > > Max Gallade - www.apisto.bravepages.com > > > > > > > > Nancy Kramer - www.digitalphotoartistry.com > > > > > > > > Oliver Knott - www.pbase.com/plantella > > > > > > > > Randy Carey - www.characin.com > > > > > > > > Steve Pituch - users.ev1.net/~spituch/ > > > > > > > > Steve Pushak - home.infinet.net/teban > > > > > > > > Tom Barr - www.barrreport.com > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>>> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>>> > >> : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > > 4:59:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > Tested on: 11/9/2008 5:21:04 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > Tested on: 11/9/2008 5:36:11 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32740	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

That looks just like the Hornwort pic... but I guess in 3-D, as you can see it, you can tell better. lol Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 6:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care Sorry, looks more like this to me: http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm> Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > Sorry I was going with the common name (green foxtail), it looks like > the cutleaf watermilfoil listed on plantgeek, it doesn't look so much > like the pic you thought it was. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > LOL... the "green one".. well that narrows it down for us. Which one > > are you referring to? This is why I suggested individual pics or at > least edit > > the pics (with MS-Paint or other similar program) to circle or snip > > out the plants you need ID's on. > > > > The long fuzzy string type plant, with lots of needles on them, on > > the picture, "right side of the tank", and on the right side of that > > picture appears to be Hornwort. There are two varieties that are > > common but > yours > > looks most like this one. http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> >> Close Up > > Pic - http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> >> > > > > Compare them and see if that's the one you have. If not, check the > > Floating plants category and look at the other Hornwort. While these > > plants > can be > > "planted", they do not develop a good root structure but rather > > stringer type roots, like Anacharis does. I use to plant mine, but > > in 2" or > 3" clay > > pots and stuck the bottom of a bunch in the pot and then filled it > > with gravel to anchor the bunch. I also do this with some of my > > Anacharis but leave some of it floating as well. > > > > The floating "mini-lily pad" type plants, that have a single or > couple of > > stringy roots dipping down into the water about, appear to be > > Pennywort but your picture is from underneath so I'm not positive. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > Good point, thanks Lenny. I will get some good pics of my plants. I > > know what 1 or 2 of them are from pics on plantgeek.net (which thank > > you > for, I > > was using the site yesterday to sort out low-moderate light > > requiring plants, hehe). I'm pretty sure I have brazilian pennywort > > and somewhat sure I have a foxtail (green one). I am assuming I also > > have a 2-3 different kinds of Crypt's as well. I think I may have > > some type of Anubias as > well, > > but will get pics of everything and see if anyone has any ideas for > me ;) > > > > thanks, > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > I haven't looked through all the links that Harry provided but I > > > know one reasonably simple site to navigate and sort plants is > > > http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 6:28:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32741	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Hey......I got my danios

You can add more fish when your ammonia and nitrite levels are pretty consistently close to 0. Keep in mind that even a mature tank may have levels above 0 if you changed the filters or did a particularly thorough cleaning. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "cherrystix81" <cherrystix81@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey......I got my danios so its been a little while since i last asked for help. and got the help i needed. so glad i joined this site :) anyway i am at six danios long tailed and they look like they are doing great. i think i get more worried about the fish than i really should. i like watching how fast they are and how they have a feeding frenzy when they eat. i would like to add some guppy's but i am scared that it hasent been long enough. so my quistion now is how many cycles should i wait until i can add the guppy's. i know that they are hardy but i also heard that they are picky on adapting to water. What signs should i look for before i can add guppy's? i dont want to shock them to death. i was also looking at ghost catfish but i want to do more research on it. anyway thanks for the info :) >>>>>>kate ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32742	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

yeah the little "leaves" point out rather than up like the hornwort does, but not sure if it's just because of lighting differences. It has long leaves and they are very soft like tiny hair, and it floats rather well in the water. The plant seems to shoot out roots randomly on the tendrils as well, so it seems like it would be easy to propagate the tank with this plant. Just cut the tendrils shorter and replant them to make a new plant I would assume. Forgive me if I don't have all the technical terms for propagation ;) I've done a little cloning with my home plants but other than that I'm not very good at making new plants out of other plants, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That looks just like the Hornwort pic... but I guess in 3-D, as you > can see > it, you can tell better. lol > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 6:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > Sorry, looks more like this to me: > http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm> > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm>> > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Sorry I was going with the common name (green foxtail), it looks like > > the cutleaf watermilfoil listed on plantgeek, it doesn't look so much > > like the pic you thought it was. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > LOL... the "green one".. well that narrows it down for us. Which one > > > are you referring to? This is why I suggested individual pics or at > > least edit > > > the pics (with MS-Paint or other similar program) to circle or snip > > > out the plants you need ID's on. > > > > > > The long fuzzy string type plant, with lots of needles on them, on > > > the picture, "right side of the tank", and on the right side of that > > > picture appears to be Hornwort. There are two varieties that are > > > common but > > yours > > > looks most like this one. http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> >> Close Up > > > Pic - http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> >> > > > > > > Compare them and see if that's the one you have. If not, check the > > > Floating plants category and look at the other Hornwort. While these > > > plants > > can be > > > "planted", they do not develop a good root structure but rather > > > stringer type roots, like Anacharis does. I use to plant mine, but > > > in 2" or > > 3" clay > > > pots and stuck the bottom of a bunch in the pot and then filled it > > > with gravel to anchor the bunch. I also do this with some of my > > > Anacharis but leave some of it floating as well. > > > > > > The floating "mini-lily pad" type plants, that have a single or > > couple of > > > stringy roots dipping down into the water about, appear to be > > > Pennywort but your picture is from underneath so I'm not positive. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > > > Good point, thanks Lenny. I will get some good pics of my plants. I > > > know what 1 or 2 of them are from pics on plantgeek.net (which thank > > > you > > for, I > > > was using the site yesterday to sort out low-moderate light > > > requiring plants, hehe). I'm pretty sure I have brazilian pennywort > > > and somewhat sure I have a foxtail (green one). I am assuming I also > > > have a 2-3 different kinds of Crypt's as well. I think I may have > > > some type of Anubias as > > well, > > > but will get pics of everything and see if anyone has any ideas for > > me ;) > > > > > > thanks, > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > I haven't looked through all the links that Harry provided but I > > > > know one reasonably simple site to navigate and sort plants is > > > > http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 6:28:40 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32743	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Amber and all, live plant care

I also notice that hornwort seems to branch as it goes up, whereas my plant does not, it branches at the gravel point where the roots start. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > yeah the little "leaves" point out rather than up like the hornwort > does, but not sure if it's just because of lighting differences. It has > long leaves and they are very soft like tiny hair, and it floats rather > well in the water. The plant seems to shoot out roots randomly on the > tendrils as well, so it seems like it would be easy to propagate the > tank with this plant. Just cut the tendrils shorter and replant them to > make a new plant I would assume. Forgive me if I don't have all the > technical terms for propagation ;) I've done a little cloning with my > home plants but other than that I'm not very good at making new plants > out of other plants, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > That looks just like the Hornwort pic... but I guess in 3-D, as you > > can see > > it, you can tell better. lol > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 6:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > Sorry, looks more like this to me: > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm>> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-170.htm>>> > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Sorry I was going with the common name (green foxtail), it looks like > > > the cutleaf watermilfoil listed on plantgeek, it doesn't look so much > > > like the pic you thought it was. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > LOL... the "green one".. well that narrows it down for us. Which one > > > > are you referring to? This is why I suggested individual pics or at > > > least edit > > > > the pics (with MS-Paint or other similar program) to circle or snip > > > > out the plants you need ID's on. > > > > > > > > The long fuzzy string type plant, with lots of needles on them, on > > > > the picture, "right side of the tank", and on the right side of that > > > > picture appears to be Hornwort. There are two varieties that are > > > > common but > > > yours > > > > looks most like this one. http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>>> > > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-51.htm>>> >> Close Up > > > > Pic - http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>>> > > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> > > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg > <http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/hornwort.jpg>>> >> > > > > > > > > Compare them and see if that's the one you have. If not, check the > > > > Floating plants category and look at the other Hornwort. While these > > > > plants > > > can be > > > > "planted", they do not develop a good root structure but rather > > > > stringer type roots, like Anacharis does. I use to plant mine, but > > > > in 2" or > > > 3" clay > > > > pots and stuck the bottom of a bunch in the pot and then filled it > > > > with gravel to anchor the bunch. I also do this with some of my > > > > Anacharis but leave some of it floating as well. > > > > > > > > The floating "mini-lily pad" type plants, that have a single or > > > couple of > > > > stringy roots dipping down into the water about, appear to be > > > > Pennywort but your picture is from underneath so I'm not positive. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:08 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber and all, live plant care > > > > > > > > Good point, thanks Lenny. I will get some good pics of my plants. I > > > > know what 1 or 2 of them are from pics on plantgeek.net (which thank > > > > you > > > for, I > > > > was using the site yesterday to sort out low-moderate light > > > > requiring plants, hehe). I'm pretty sure I have brazilian pennywort > > > > and somewhat sure I have a foxtail (green one). I am assuming I also > > > > have a 2-3 different kinds of Crypt's as well. I think I may have > > > > some type of Anubias as > > > well, > > > > but will get pics of everything and see if anyone has any ideas for > > > me ;) > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > I haven't looked through all the links that Harry provided but I > > > > > know one reasonably simple site to navigate and sort plants is > > > > > http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>> > > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net> > <http://www.PlantGeek.net <http://www.PlantGeek.net>>> > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > Tested on: 11/9/2008 6:28:40 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32744	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I know that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims that teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland stealth heater? Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32745	From: Chris	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich

I wasn't trying to turn up the heat, and giant heat fluctuations cause ich

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32746	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 gallon tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska where it's supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater set usually close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems to set close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it would work better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as well. I use one of these heaters: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your set up :) Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I know that > on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 watt > ones > in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't quite > keeping > the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims that teh > deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland stealth > heater? > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look identical, > only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32747	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

I found one of the old boxes from the bulbs that are currently in my hood, they are only 15 watts each, so this is a drastic improvement for my tank, LOL. I will have 50 watts more on each side of the tank ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well.. if hubby can't explain it, I'm not getting in the middle of it > either. LOL OK.. maybe I'll try one more time. > > You just need to do like Alina did a few minutes ago... You are woman, > hear > you ROAR!!! > > Imagine you were dealing with just a number. If you had a number 1 > over the > tank, that would add up to 1. If you had a number 1 over each half of the > tank, then yow you have a total of 2 over the entire tank.... it's no > longer > just a 1 over the entire tank. The same goes for watts per gallon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > How come having one bulb on each side isnt' the same as having one > long one > across the tank? I just don't understand why it's added up, LOL. My > husband > even tried to explain and I was so lost ;) To me it seems like it > should be > 65 watts across the aquarium since there's a bulb on each side (they don't > extend all the way, they are 21" > long). > > I'm sorry if this seems silly. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You still add up the total wattage of all the bulbs. For example, if > > you had a single 4' long tube that was 65 watts, that would be 65 > > watts per gallon. With two 65 watt PCF's, you have 65 watts over each > > half of the 55G tank so you have 65 watts over 27.5 gallons of water, > > on each half of the tank, for a total of 130 watts over the entire 55G > > tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know about > > the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They are > > standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" > > bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" > > bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old that > > I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without breaking > > it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood. > > The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 watts, > > how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each side? seems > > like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so confused, LOL > > > > I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. > > I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. > > I have > > also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I have > > always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, they just > > get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There are some days > > that I really miss the old fish store ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, > > > unless you have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one of > > > the CFL's on each side so you still only have the total of 130 watts. > > > And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > > > > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing > > > you mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total watts. > > > > > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total watts > > > on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a LOT. > > > > > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of > > > light, > > > CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an > > > abundance of algae. > > > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either have > > > sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried about > > > with even the current upgrade you are doing. > > > > > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email > > > but didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or two 18" > > > fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you > > > leaving that light fixture on each day? > > > > > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 > > > watts > > > (1 > > > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total of > > > 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, then > > > 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If you > > > left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling the > > > lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and > > > nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't be > > > immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would likely > > > end up with algae. > > > > > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount of > > > lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants > > > and/or your other plants start growing faster, then you could leave > > > the lights on longer, maybe increasing the time the lights are on by > > > an hour each week or so, until you have them on 8 hours a day (more > > > or less depending on how your tank and plants are doing). > > > > > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting on > > > my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG now, I > > > started getting algae until my plants took off better. Personally, I > > > don't mind a little algae like some folks do so it was no big deal > > > for me and I had just gotten a new little clown pleco so he needed > > > the algae to eat anyhow. He is starting to get ahead of the algae > > > growth now so I'll be extending the lighting time as he gets caught > > > up completely. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double > > > CFL's at > > > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I > > > would only pay a little more than the light I already found on > > > another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other > > > order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better > > > deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go > > > with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put in an order > for. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? > > > > I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always > > helpful. > > > > > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop > > > > hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware > > > > stores are also very limited unless you want to wait for them to > > > > order something for you and barge it up, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop > > Light" > > > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and > > > > > you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 > > > > > depending on if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting > > > > > requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as > > > > > soft water plants, as we have very soft water here. > > > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > > > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than > > > > > I currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. > > > > > That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at > > > > > first, then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't > > > > > > care but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on > > > > > > live > > > > > plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still > > > > > > may not be > > > > > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a > > > > > > glass hood > > > > > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k > > > > > > CFL bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank > > > > > > or should I > > > > > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 3:49:32 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32748	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

I'm replying to myself because I just changed my lighting temporarily until my new light fixture gets here. I realized that I had an old shop light sitting downstairs with 2, 48" plant bulbs in it (40 watts each bulb), so I snagged it and brought it upstairs to see if it still works. I was using it for plants I had downstairs this spring/summer when I was growing basil/cilantro etc. It is more of a blue spectrum lighting, is this going to be okay for my plants in the meantime? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > I found one of the old boxes from the bulbs that are currently in my > hood, they are only 15 watts each, so this is a drastic improvement for > my tank, LOL. I will have 50 watts more on each side of the tank ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well.. if hubby can't explain it, I'm not getting in the middle of it > > either. LOL OK.. maybe I'll try one more time. > > > > You just need to do like Alina did a few minutes ago... You are woman, > > hear > > you ROAR!!! > > > > Imagine you were dealing with just a number. If you had a number 1 > > over the > > tank, that would add up to 1. If you had a number 1 over each half > of the > > tank, then yow you have a total of 2 over the entire tank.... it's no > > longer > > just a 1 over the entire tank. The same goes for watts per gallon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > How come having one bulb on each side isnt' the same as having one > > long one > > across the tank? I just don't understand why it's added up, LOL. My > > husband > > even tried to explain and I was so lost ;) To me it seems like it > > should be > > 65 watts across the aquarium since there's a bulb on each side (they > don't > > extend all the way, they are 21" > > long). > > > > I'm sorry if this seems silly. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > You still add up the total wattage of all the bulbs. For example, if > > > you had a single 4' long tube that was 65 watts, that would be 65 > > > watts per gallon. With two 65 watt PCF's, you have 65 watts over each > > > half of the 55G tank so you have 65 watts over 27.5 gallons of water, > > > on each half of the tank, for a total of 130 watts over the entire 55G > > > tank. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:14 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know about > > > the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They are > > > standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" > > > bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" > > > bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old that > > > I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without breaking > > > it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood. > > > The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 watts, > > > how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each side? seems > > > like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so confused, LOL > > > > > > I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. > > > I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. > > > I have > > > also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I have > > > always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, they just > > > get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There are some days > > > that I really miss the old fish store ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, > > > > unless you have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one of > > > > the CFL's on each side so you still only have the total of 130 > watts. > > > > And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > > > > > > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing > > > > you mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total > watts. > > > > > > > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total watts > > > > on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a > LOT. > > > > > > > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of > > > > light, > > > > CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an > > > > abundance of algae. > > > > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either have > > > > sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried about > > > > with even the current upgrade you are doing. > > > > > > > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email > > > > but didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or > two 18" > > > > fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you > > > > leaving that light fixture on each day? > > > > > > > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 > > > > watts > > > > (1 > > > > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total of > > > > 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, then > > > > 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If you > > > > left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling the > > > > lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and > > > > nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't be > > > > immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would likely > > > > end up with algae. > > > > > > > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount of > > > > lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants > > > > and/or your other plants start growing faster, then you could leave > > > > the lights on longer, maybe increasing the time the lights are on by > > > > an hour each week or so, until you have them on 8 hours a day (more > > > > or less depending on how your tank and plants are doing). > > > > > > > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting on > > > > my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG now, I > > > > started getting algae until my plants took off better. Personally, I > > > > don't mind a little algae like some folks do so it was no big deal > > > > for me and I had just gotten a new little clown pleco so he needed > > > > the algae to eat anyhow. He is starting to get ahead of the algae > > > > growth now so I'll be extending the lighting time as he gets caught > > > > up completely. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double > > > > CFL's at > > > > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I > > > > would only pay a little more than the light I already found on > > > > another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other > > > > order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better > > > > deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go > > > > with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put in an order > > for. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of > Alaska? > > > > > I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always > > > helpful. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop > > > > > hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware > > > > > stores are also very limited unless you want to wait for them to > > > > > order something for you and barge it up, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop > > > Light" > > > > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and > > > > > > you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 > > > > > > depending on if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting > > > > > > requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as > > > > > > soft water plants, as we have very soft water here. > > > > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > > > > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than > > > > > > I currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend > right now. > > > > > > That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at > > > > > > first, then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't > > > > > > > care but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>>> > > > > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>>> > > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>>> > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf>>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on > > > > > > > live > > > > > > plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still > > > > > > > may not be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a > > > > > > > glass hood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k > > > > > > > CFL bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank > > > > > > > or should I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > Tested on: 11/9/2008 3:49:32 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32749	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi Bill, About the only way I'm connected to "Ham" is when I act up when joking around. No, I'm not a Ham (radio operator), but its got to be interesting to talk to people from as far out as you can pull in their signal. Sometimes skipping your signal can have you reaching a good distance. I remember a friend's father being into this so have some idea of what its all about. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, >   > Are you a Ham too?  CQ-CQ-CQ? >   > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:18 AM > > > > > > > Hi John, CQ, CQ, CQ -- I figured you had Rift Lake Cichlds. Nice > assortment; I always did like the Melanochromis species, especially > the M. melanopterus, ever since I first started importing that > species but you just can't find that one around any longer (and I > think its the nicest one of the Genus). > > I'm not sure if you realize that your mix of these Mbuna can results > in cross breeds, even if the possibility in your case is greatly > reduced. They will usually not cross breed, unless there are no > other fish of their species to breed with, but even then its still > possible. The current ACA bulletin I had been discussing with Mike > depicts a hybrid between Pseudotropheus perpuratus and Labeotropheus > fuelleborni as found in the wild (Lake Malawi) by Ad Konings -- and > we can be certain there are others of both these species in their > immediate environment. I've seen reports of Mbuna (Metriaclima > zebra) hybridizing with Utaka/Peacock (Aulonocara stuartgranti) > although this was in captivity, but it shows you the possible > consequences. > > I would not normally recommend (and still don't) your alternating the > operations of your two filters with intervals of 3 - 3 1/2 days as > your bi-weekly running of these filters indicate, but I can't argue > with your results (parameters) . It does appear though, that you may > not realize that without continued operation of these filters, that > much of the nitrifying bacteria will starve of oxygen resulting in a > die-back of them. Its always best to keep your filters running > continually whenever you can. I like your choices of filters however. > > Your bi-weekly PWC's should take care of any build-ups of minerals > resulting from your high evaporation rate, but any slight increased > mineral content should not affect these fish in the least. Just that > you need to monitor the water level moreso to ensure your HOB's > (Aquaclears) operate efficiently. Looks like your tank is doing > good, although its easy to see which male is the most dominant > (lol). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > HI  Ray!! > >   > > Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. > >   > > 75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place > overnight about 6 yrs ago. > >   > > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed > Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of > the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum > w/Diatomite Filter. > >   > > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 > >   > > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic > cubes, > >   > > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. > >   > > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > > Common Pleco 1 about 8" > >   > > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no > problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! > Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. > >   > > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry > climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. > >   > > John in Nevada > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know > what > > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the > details > > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said > here > > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from > the > > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive > if > > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to > participate. > > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by > your > > description. > > > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > > >   > > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > > two have been posting. > > >   > > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish > hide > > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they > recognize > > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > >   > > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > >   > > > John in Nevada > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time > convincing > > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months > ago > > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always > draws > > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such > a > > wealth of information! > > > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). > Chuck > > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > > (got > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > > Ad > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in > Malawi > > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom > fish > > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the > original > > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > > As > > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > > dwell > > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > > but > > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't > hide > > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > > to > > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > > (got > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > > Ad > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > of > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > because > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > and > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are > referring > > > to, > > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > > just > > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > > varied > > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > > like > > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > > are > > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are > quite > > > at > > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african > Cichlids > > > are > > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > of > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > because > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > and > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > > attempt > > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring > the > > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of > view. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure > how > > > > it'll > > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > > hide > > > > or is > > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish > produce > > > > eggs or > > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > > good > > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > > produce > > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > > survive, > > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, > fake > > > tree > > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a > smaller > > > > shelter > > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > > that > > > > over. > > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32750	From: harry perry	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber/balance

That will work fine for now. One of the things to keep in mind is how well you have balanced the tank. In other words, the plant growth aided by fertilizer/co2 so that algae doesn't become a problem. The idea is for the plants to use up nutrients so the algae doesn't get started. Nutrients are, fish waste, dead leaves, dead fish and light are all factors in keeping algae out of your tank. That's why I suggested a timer. When algae starts it's good to have at least one constant in the equation. When you increase the light you change the balance. With the plants growing faster and stronger you will be able to keep algae at bay. If you start seeing algae with you increased lights let us know. Harry --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:52 PM I'm replying to myself because I just changed my lighting temporarily until my new light fixture gets here. I realized that I had an old shop light sitting downstairs with 2, 48" plant bulbs in it (40 watts each bulb), so I snagged it and brought it upstairs to see if it still works. I was using it for plants I had downstairs this spring/summer when I was growing basil/cilantro etc. It is more of a blue spectrum lighting, is this going to be okay for my plants in the meantime? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > I found one of the old boxes from the bulbs that are currently in my > hood, they are only 15 watts each, so this is a drastic improvement for > my tank, LOL. I will have 50 watts more on each side of the tank ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well.. if hubby can't explain it, I'm not getting in the middle of it > > either. LOL OK.. maybe I'll try one more time. > > > > You just need to do like Alina did a few minutes ago... You are woman, > > hear > > you ROAR!!! > > > > Imagine you were dealing with just a number. If you had a number 1 > > over the > > tank, that would add up to 1. If you had a number 1 over each half > of the > > tank, then yow you have a total of 2 over the entire tank.... it's no > > longer > > just a 1 over the entire tank. The same goes for watts per gallon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > How come having one bulb on each side isnt' the same as having one > > long one > > across the tank? I just don't understand why it's added up, LOL. My > > husband > > even tried to explain and I was so lost ;) To me it seems like it > > should be > > 65 watts across the aquarium since there's a bulb on each side (they > don't > > extend all the way, they are 21" > > long). > > > > I'm sorry if this seems silly. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > You still add up the total wattage of all the bulbs. For example, if > > > you had a single 4' long tube that was 65 watts, that would be 65 > > > watts per gallon. With two 65 watt PCF's, you have 65 watts over each > > > half of the 55G tank so you have 65 watts over 27.5 gallons of water, > > > on each half of the tank, for a total of 130 watts over the entire 55G > > > tank. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:14 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know about > > > the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They are > > > standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" > > > bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" > > > bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old that > > > I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without breaking > > > it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood. > > > The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 watts, > > > how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each side? seems > > > like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so confused, LOL > > > > > > I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. > > > I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. > > > I have > > > also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I have > > > always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, they just > > > get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There are some days > > > that I really miss the old fish store ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, > > > > unless you have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one of > > > > the CFL's on each side so you still only have the total of 130 > watts. > > > > And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > > > > > > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing > > > > you mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total > watts. > > > > > > > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total watts > > > > on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a > LOT. > > > > > > > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of > > > > light, > > > > CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an > > > > abundance of algae. > > > > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either have > > > > sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried about > > > > with even the current upgrade you are doing. > > > > > > > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email > > > > but didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or > two 18" > > > > fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you > > > > leaving that light fixture on each day? > > > > > > > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 > > > > watts > > > > (1 > > > > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total of > > > > 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, then > > > > 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If you > > > > left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling the > > > > lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and > > > > nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't be > > > > immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would likely > > > > end up with algae. > > > > > > > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount of > > > > lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants > > > > and/or your other plants start growing faster, then you could leave > > > > the lights on longer, maybe increasing the time the lights are on by > > > > an hour each week or so, until you have them on 8 hours a day (more > > > > or less depending on how your tank and plants are doing). > > > > > > > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting on > > > > my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG now, I > > > > started getting algae until my plants took off better. Personally, I > > > > don't mind a little algae like some folks do so it was no big deal > > > > for me and I had just gotten a new little clown pleco so he needed > > > > the algae to eat anyhow. He is starting to get ahead of the algae > > > > growth now so I'll be extending the lighting time as he gets caught > > > > up completely. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double > > > > CFL's at > > > > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I > > > > would only pay a little more than the light I already found on > > > > another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my other > > > > order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a better > > > > deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts I will go > > > > with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put in an order > > for. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of > Alaska? > > > > > I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's always > > > helpful. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop > > > > > hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware > > > > > stores are also very limited unless you want to wait for them to > > > > > order something for you and barge it up, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' "Shop > > > Light" > > > > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs and > > > > > > you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to $30 > > > > > > depending on if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com 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blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting > > > > > > requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as > > > > > > soft water plants, as we have very soft water here. > > > > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium of > > > > > > varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system than > > > > > > I currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend > right now. > > > > > > That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at > > > > > > first, then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish won't > > > > > > > care but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > > > > http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>>> > > > > > > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>>> > > > > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>>> > > > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>> > > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf> > <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl. com/57dtuf>>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information on > > > > > > > live > > > > > > plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still > > > > > > > may not be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have a > > > > > > > glass hood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k > > > > > > > CFL bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank > > > > > > > or should I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com>>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > > Tested on: 11/9/2008 3:49:32 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32751	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and formulas again.. LOL... but here goes. For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per gallon of heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, then you would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will usually only be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most cases although some tropical's prefer higher temps. If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the needed amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if one of the heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be able to major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to compensate. If you notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could mean the other heater is either set to low or has failed. On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith.com which included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale (click the Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal (from API) Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical mount. Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. The package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on the dial for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. It says it is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know that it would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few degrees cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price and only $10.00 each. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 gallon tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska where it's supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater set usually close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems to set close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it would work better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as well. I use one of these heaters: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your set up :) Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I know > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims that > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland stealth > heater? > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32752	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Yeah, I guess "bi-monthly" could be used to denote "twice a month," but then we'd be in the same ambiguous situation. "Semi" should probably be used if one wants to make it perfectly clear when intending "twice" a week or "twice" a month. I don't think "semi" could refer to "every two" of any time period; "semi-annual" would never mean every two years. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Not wanting to get into a word usage debate but "bi-weekly" is one of them > words/terms that can mean either "every two weeks" or "twice a week"... > another anomaly of the English language. ;-) I always use semi- weekly for > twice a week and bi-weekly for every two weeks but it can lead to confusion > in some cases. > > From the WordWeb program... a nifty little desktop dictionary program that's > free and quicker to use than the web or a paper dictionary: > > bi-weekly - adj 1 fortnightly. 2 occurring or appearing twice a week. > Sometimes semi-weekly. Also adverb. noun a periodical issued twice a week, > or once every two weeks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of JOHN KD7POE > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) > Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > Sorry Ray it was late and I made several errors in my description. > > It is not bi-weekly, but every 2 weeks and I do run the Magnum continuously > on the alternate 2 week I change from a Bio Load To the Diatom Filter. > > As far as Hybrids are concerned I know of the possibility, however since I > hope my Tank will ne perpetual, they will stay in my Tank. So I feel no harm > done. I don't think it hashappened yet and I love the coloring of the > Maingano. > > John > > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) > Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:18 AM > > Hi John, CQ, CQ, CQ -- I figured you had Rift Lake Cichlds. Nice assortment; > I always did like the Melanochromis species, especially the M. melanopterus, > ever since I first started importing that species but you just can't find > that one around any longer (and I think its the nicest one of the Genus). > > I'm not sure if you realize that your mix of these Mbuna can results in > cross breeds, even if the possibility in your case is greatly reduced. They > will usually not cross breed, unless there are no other fish of their > species to breed with, but even then its still possible. The current ACA > bulletin I had been discussing with Mike depicts a hybrid between > Pseudotropheus perpuratus and Labeotropheus fuelleborni as found in the wild > (Lake Malawi) by Ad Konings -- and we can be certain there are others of > both these species in their immediate environment. I've seen reports of > Mbuna (Metriaclima > zebra) hybridizing with Utaka/Peacock (Aulonocara stuartgranti) although > this was in captivity, but it shows you the possible consequences. > > I would not normally recommend (and still don't) your alternating the > operations of your two filters with intervals of 3 - 3 1/2 days as your > bi-weekly running of these filters indicate, but I can't argue with your > results (parameters) . It does appear though, that you may not realize that > without continued operation of these filters, that much of the nitrifying > bacteria will starve of oxygen resulting in a die-back of them. Its always > best to keep your filters running continually whenever you can. I like your > choices of filters however. > > Your bi-weekly PWC's should take care of any build-ups of minerals resulting > from your high evaporation rate, but any slight increased mineral content > should not affect these fish in the least. Just that you need to monitor the > water level moreso to ensure your HOB's > (Aquaclears) operate efficiently. Looks like your tank is doing good, > although its easy to see which male is the most dominant (lol). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > HI Ray!! > > > > Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. > > > > 75 Gallon Tank - All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place > overnight about 6 yrs ago. > > > > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed > Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the > water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite > Filter. > > > > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 > > > > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic > cubes, > > > > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. > > > > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 Labidochromis > > Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos > > ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- > > Started with 6 Common Pleco 1 about 8" > > > > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no > problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! > Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. > > > > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry > climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. > > > > John in Nevada > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know > what > > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this thread. > > There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the > details > > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of trying > > to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from their > > owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said > here > > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from > the > > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive > if > > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to > participate. > > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by > your > > description. > > > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > > > > > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > > two have been posting. > > > > > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish > hide > > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they > recognize > > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > > > > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > > > > > John in Nevada > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time > convincing > > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche > > from my old place still. > > > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months > ago > > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always > draws > > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such > a > > wealth of information! > > > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). > Chuck > > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > > (got > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > > Ad > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in > Malawi > > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom > fish > > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the > original > > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > > As > > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > > dwell > > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > > but > > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't > hide > > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > > to > > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > > (got > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > > Ad > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > of > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > because > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > and > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are > referring > > > to, > > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > > just > > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > > varied > > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > > like > > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > > are > > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are > quite > > > at > > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african > Cichlids > > > are > > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > of > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > because > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > and > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > > attempt > > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring > the > > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of > view. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure > how > > > > it'll > > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > > hide > > > > or is > > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish > produce > > > > eggs or > > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > > good > > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > > produce > > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > > survive, > > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, > fake > > > tree > > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a > smaller > > > > shelter > > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > > that > > > > over. > > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Shirley > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 10:32:04 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32753	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

So you're going from a total of 30 watts over the tank UP to 130 watts over the tank... HUGE jump.. over 4X's the lighting. So you'll only want to run the new lighting for 1/4th of the time to start and work your way up to give the plants a chance to start growing so you don't get an algae bloom. Make sure you don't just turn that light on from the tank being dark to that much light as it could scare the fish. I usually turn on room lights first so the fish have a chance to wake up for an hour before I turn on my tank lights. Same with turning the tank lights off. Make sure a room light is on, then turn off the tank lights and then the room lights an hour later. This kind of mimics dawn and dusk. Were you dosing any fertilizers before? You may have to start now to feed your plants since they'll be needing it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber I found one of the old boxes from the bulbs that are currently in my hood, they are only 15 watts each, so this is a drastic improvement for my tank, LOL. I will have 50 watts more on each side of the tank ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well.. if hubby can't explain it, I'm not getting in the middle of it > either. LOL OK.. maybe I'll try one more time. > > You just need to do like Alina did a few minutes ago... You are woman, > hear you ROAR!!! > > Imagine you were dealing with just a number. If you had a number 1 > over the tank, that would add up to 1. If you had a number 1 over each > half of the tank, then yow you have a total of 2 over the entire > tank.... it's no longer just a 1 over the entire tank. The same goes > for watts per gallon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > How come having one bulb on each side isnt' the same as having one > long one across the tank? I just don't understand why it's added up, > LOL. My husband even tried to explain and I was so lost ;) To me it > seems like it should be > 65 watts across the aquarium since there's a bulb on each side (they > don't extend all the way, they are 21" > long). > > I'm sorry if this seems silly. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You still add up the total wattage of all the bulbs. For example, if > > you had a single 4' long tube that was 65 watts, that would be 65 > > watts per gallon. With two 65 watt PCF's, you have 65 watts over > > each half of the 55G tank so you have 65 watts over 27.5 gallons of > > water, on each half of the tank, for a total of 130 watts over the > > entire 55G tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know about > > the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They are > > standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" > > bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" > > bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old > > that I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without > > breaking it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood. > > The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 watts, > > how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each side? seems > > like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so confused, LOL > > > > I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. > > I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. > > I have > > also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I > > have always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, they > > just get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There are some > > days that I really miss the old fish store ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much lighting, > > > unless you have plans for another tank or if you could unplug one > > > of the CFL's on each side so you still only have the total of 130 watts. > > > And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > > > > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm guessing > > > you mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered 130 total watts. > > > > > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total > > > watts on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. That's a LOT. > > > > > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of > > > light, > > > CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an > > > abundance of algae. > > > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either > > > have sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm worried > > > about with even the current upgrade you are doing. > > > > > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this email > > > but didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture now or two 18" > > > fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you > > > leaving that light fixture on each day? > > > > > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 > > > watts > > > (1 > > > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a total > > > of 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be 130 watts, > > > then > > > 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If > > > you left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling > > > the lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 and > > > nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't be > > > immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would likely > > > end up with algae. > > > > > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the amount > > > of lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add more plants > > > and/or your other plants start growing faster, then you could > > > leave the lights on longer, maybe increasing the time the lights > > > are on by an hour each week or so, until you have them on 8 hours > > > a day (more or less depending on how your tank and plants are doing). > > > > > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my lighting > > > on my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around 1.5 WPG > > > now, I started getting algae until my plants took off better. > > > Personally, I don't mind a little algae like some folks do so it > > > was no big deal for me and I had just gotten a new little clown > > > pleco so he needed the algae to eat anyhow. He is starting to get > > > ahead of the algae growth now so I'll be extending the lighting > > > time as he gets caught up completely. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's double > > > CFL's at > > > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I > > > would only pay a little more than the light I already found on > > > another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my > > > other order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately a > > > better deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts I > > > will go with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put in > > > an order > for. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of Alaska? > > > > I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's > > > > always > > helpful. > > > > > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop > > > > hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware > > > > stores are also very limited unless you want to wait for them to > > > > order something for you and barge it up, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' > > > > > "Shop > > Light" > > > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs > > > > > and you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to > > > > > $30 depending on if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting > > > > > requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as > > > > > soft water plants, as we have very soft water here. > > > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium > > > > > of varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting system > > > > > than I currently have but don't have a lot of money to spend right now. > > > > > That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at > > > > > first, then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish > > > > > > won't care but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information > > > > > > on live > > > > > plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it still > > > > > > may not be > > > > > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I have > > > > > > a glass hood > > > > > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife 6,700k > > > > > > CFL bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon tank > > > > > > or should I > > > > > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 9:31:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32754	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

Yes, the 80W (2 x 40) shop light will help acclimate them. So that is about 2.5X's more than you had so turn it on for a little less than half the time. If you were running the 30 watts for 10 hours (10 x 30 = 300), run the 80 watts for 4 hours (4 x 80 = 320). Then when the new lighting comes in, you could run it for 3 hours (3 x 130 = 390) and work your way back up to the 8 hour range over the course of a week or two depending on how your plants are doing. You'll probably see them pearling (air bubbles forming on the leaves) with all of this upgraded lighting. I'm not sure about all the spectrum stuff.. lol.. but if you were using them to grow plants, then I bought some "Plant/Aquarium" 18" tubes for one of my 10G's and it has a yellowish color to it. Next time, I'll get the Daylight bulbs. Those give the most natural color to me. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber I'm replying to myself because I just changed my lighting temporarily until my new light fixture gets here. I realized that I had an old shop light sitting downstairs with 2, 48" plant bulbs in it (40 watts each bulb), so I snagged it and brought it upstairs to see if it still works. I was using it for plants I had downstairs this spring/summer when I was growing basil/cilantro etc. It is more of a blue spectrum lighting, is this going to be okay for my plants in the meantime? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > I found one of the old boxes from the bulbs that are currently in my > hood, they are only 15 watts each, so this is a drastic improvement > for my tank, LOL. I will have 50 watts more on each side of the tank > ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well.. if hubby can't explain it, I'm not getting in the middle of > > it either. LOL OK.. maybe I'll try one more time. > > > > You just need to do like Alina did a few minutes ago... You are > > woman, hear you ROAR!!! > > > > Imagine you were dealing with just a number. If you had a number 1 > > over the tank, that would add up to 1. If you had a number 1 over > > each half > of the > > tank, then yow you have a total of 2 over the entire tank.... it's > > no longer just a 1 over the entire tank. The same goes for watts per > > gallon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > How come having one bulb on each side isnt' the same as having one > > long one across the tank? I just don't understand why it's added up, > > LOL. My husband even tried to explain and I was so lost ;) To me it > > seems like it should be > > 65 watts across the aquarium since there's a bulb on each side (they > don't > > extend all the way, they are 21" > > long). > > > > I'm sorry if this seems silly. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > You still add up the total wattage of all the bulbs. For example, > > > if you had a single 4' long tube that was 65 watts, that would be > > > 65 watts per gallon. With two 65 watt PCF's, you have 65 watts > > > over each half of the 55G tank so you have 65 watts over 27.5 > > > gallons of water, on each half of the tank, for a total of 130 > > > watts over the entire 55G tank. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:14 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know > > > about the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They > > > are standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is an 18" > > > bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" > > > bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old > > > that I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without > > > breaking it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood. > > > The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 > > > watts, how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each > > > side? seems like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so > > > confused, LOL > > > > > > I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. > > > I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to live. > > > I have > > > also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I > > > have always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, > > > they just get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There > > > are some days that I really miss the old fish store ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much > > > > lighting, unless you have plans for another tank or if you could > > > > unplug one of the CFL's on each side so you still only have the > > > > total of 130 > watts. > > > > And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > > > > > > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm > > > > guessing you mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered > > > > 130 total > watts. > > > > > > > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total > > > > watts on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. > > > > That's a > LOT. > > > > > > > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of > > > > light, > > > > CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an > > > > abundance of algae. > > > > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either > > > > have sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm > > > > worried about with even the current upgrade you are doing. > > > > > > > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this > > > > email but didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture > > > > now or > two 18" > > > > fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you > > > > leaving that light fixture on each day? > > > > > > > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 > > > > watts > > > > (1 > > > > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a > > > > total of 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be > > > > 130 watts, then > > > > 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If > > > > you left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling > > > > the lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 > > > > and nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't > > > > be immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would > > > > likely end up with algae. > > > > > > > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the > > > > amount of lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add > > > > more plants and/or your other plants start growing faster, then > > > > you could leave the lights on longer, maybe increasing the time > > > > the lights are on by an hour each week or so, until you have > > > > them on 8 hours a day (more or less depending on how your tank and plants are doing). > > > > > > > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my > > > > lighting on my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around > > > > 1.5 WPG now, I started getting algae until my plants took off > > > > better. Personally, I don't mind a little algae like some folks > > > > do so it was no big deal for me and I had just gotten a new > > > > little clown pleco so he needed the algae to eat anyhow. He is > > > > starting to get ahead of the algae growth now so I'll be > > > > extending the lighting time as he gets caught up completely. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's > > > > double CFL's at > > > > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I > > > > would only pay a little more than the light I already found on > > > > another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my > > > > other order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately > > > > a better deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts > > > > I will go with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put > > > > in an order > > for. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of > Alaska? > > > > > I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's > > > > > always > > > helpful. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop > > > > > hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware > > > > > stores are also very limited unless you want to wait for them > > > > > to order something for you and barge it up, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' > > > > > > "Shop > > > Light" > > > > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs > > > > > > and you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to > > > > > > $30 depending on if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:37 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > My LFS only buys plants that are low-moderate lighting > > > > > > requirements and don't need much care in general, as well as > > > > > > soft water plants, as we have very soft water here. > > > > > > I already have around 15 plants scattered around my aquarium > > > > > > of varying sizes and I knew I needed a better lighting > > > > > > system than I currently have but don't have a lot of money > > > > > > to spend > right now. > > > > > > That is why I went for the single bulb aqualight system at > > > > > > first, then stopped to wonder if it would be enough light still. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question I have is enough light for what. Your fish > > > > > > > won't care but your live plants will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have or are planning to have live plants go here > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >>> > > > > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > > > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >>> > > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >>> > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > > <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf <http://tinyurl.com/57dtuf> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the "Plant Geeks" site. A lot of great information > > > > > > > on live > > > > > > plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just ordered a light online and was worried that it > > > > > > > still may not be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough light output for my 55 gallon glass aquarium. I > > > > > > > have a glass hood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as well. It's a 48" aqualight with 2x65 watt coralife > > > > > > > 6,700k CFL bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (one on each side of the tank). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this going to be sufficient for my planted 55 gallon > > > > > > > tank or should I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > look at getting a 4x65w on ebay or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 3:49:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 8:54:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 9:42:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32755	From: bill1433	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: For Ray Wetzel

Hi Ray, � Just for your general information or in case you get on the Hollywood Squares! � CQ is a code used by wireless operators, particularly those communicating in Morse code, but also by voice operators, to make a general call out to listening stations (called a CQ call). Transmitting the letters CQ on a particular radio frequency is an invitation for any operators listening on that frequency to respond. It is still widely used in amateur radio. � If you�re a bit of an old movie buff as I am, you may also be interested to know that there was also a variant of the CQ call that you may remember or recognize from the movies.� �CQD�, (Any station distress or emergency) was the first code used as a distress signal. It was proposed by the Marconi Company and adopted in 1904, but was replaced between 1906 and 1908 by the SOS code. However, when the Titanic sank in 1912, it transmitted the distress call CQD DE(means from or "this is") MGY (Titanic), MGY being the ship's radio call sign. � Just thought you might like to know, always good hearing from you � Bill � --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 10:04 PM Hi Bill, About the only way I'm connected to "Ham" is when I act up when joking around. No, I'm not a Ham (radio operator), but its got to be interesting to talk to people from as far out as you can pull in their signal. Sometimes skipping your signal can have you reaching a good distance. I remember a friend's father being into this so have some idea of what its all about. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > � > Are you a Ham too?� CQ-CQ-CQ? > � > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:18 AM > > > > > > > Hi John, CQ, CQ, CQ -- I figured you had Rift Lake Cichlds. Nice > assortment; I always did like the Melanochromis species, especially > the M. melanopterus, ever since I first started importing that > species but you just can't find that one around any longer (and I > think its the nicest one of the Genus). > > I'm not sure if you realize that your mix of these Mbuna can results > in cross breeds, even if the possibility in your case is greatly > reduced. They will usually not cross breed, unless there are no > other fish of their species to breed with, but even then its still > possible. The current ACA bulletin I had been discussing with Mike > depicts a hybrid between Pseudotropheus perpuratus and Labeotropheus > fuelleborni as found in the wild (Lake Malawi) by Ad Konings -- and > we can be certain there are others of both these species in their > immediate environment. I've seen reports of Mbuna (Metriaclima > zebra) hybridizing with Utaka/Peacock (Aulonocara stuartgranti) > although this was in captivity, but it shows you the possible > consequences. > > I would not normally recommend (and still don't) your alternating the > operations of your two filters with intervals of 3 - 3 1/2 days as > your bi-weekly running of these filters indicate, but I can't argue > with your results (parameters) . It does appear though, that you may > not realize that without continued operation of these filters, that > much of the nitrifying bacteria will starve of oxygen resulting in a > die-back of them. Its always best to keep your filters running > continually whenever you can. I like your choices of filters however. > > Your bi-weekly PWC's should take care of any build-ups of minerals > resulting from your high evaporation rate, but any slight increased > mineral content should not affect these fish in the least. Just that > you need to monitor the water level moreso to ensure your HOB's > (Aquaclears) operate efficiently. Looks like your tank is doing > good, although its easy to see which male is the most dominant > (lol). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > HI� Ray!! > > � > > Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. > > � > > 75 Gallon Tank� -� All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place > overnight about 6 yrs ago. > > � > > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed > Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of > the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum > w/Diatomite Filter. > > � > > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 > > � > > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic > cubes, > > � > > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. > > � > > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > > Common Pleco 1 about 8" > > � > > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no > problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! > Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. > > � > > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry > climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. > > � > > John in Nevada > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know > what > > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the > details > > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said > here > > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from > the > > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive > if > > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to > participate. > > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by > your > > description. > > > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > > > � > > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > > two have been posting. > > > � > > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish > hide > > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they > recognize > > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > > � > > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > > � > > > John in Nevada > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time > convincing > > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > > BuntBarsche��from my old place still. > > > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months > ago > > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always > draws > > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such > a > > wealth of information! > > > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). > Chuck > > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > > (got > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > > Ad > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in > Malawi > > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom > fish > > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the > original > > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > > As > > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > > dwell > > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > > but > > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't > hide > > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > > to > > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > > (got > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > > Ad > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > of > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > because > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > and > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are > referring > > > to, > > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > > just > > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > > varied > > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > > like > > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > > are > > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are > quite > > > at > > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african > Cichlids > > > are > > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > of > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > because > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > and > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > > attempt > > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring > the > > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of > view. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure > how > > > > it'll > > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > > hide > > > > or is > > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish > produce > > > > eggs or > > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > > good > > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > > produce > > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > > survive, > > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, > fake > > > tree > > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a > smaller > > > > shelter > > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > > that > > > > over. > > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32756	From: Alina	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

Tsk, Tsk...what do you take me for? A newbie?? (ha!) Of course I rinsed out the carbon in used tank water ..just like you've posted a gizillion times. Feels good to know I don't have to go out and spend a fortune on those filter cartridges. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL > > Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary > Doctorate Of Filterology. > > You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding new > carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did you just > refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank water? I hope > so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all that > harmful. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! > > > I am woman, hear me roar! > > Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) and once I > got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the whole > cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, > (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). > > And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. > > Thanks for all the info and help, guys > > Alina > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081108-0, 11/08/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 3:29:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

And pretty soon, you'll decide to quit running carbon and save that money too. LOL Then you could get you a new pair of shoes.... or a tricked out name tag (Hopefully you've seen the Progressive Insurance commercials so you know what I'm talking about. It was just on while I was typing this. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! Tsk, Tsk...what do you take me for? A newbie?? (ha!) Of course I rinsed out the carbon in used tank water ..just like you've posted a gizillion times. Feels good to know I don't have to go out and spend a fortune on those filter cartridges. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL > > Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary > Doctorate Of Filterology. > > You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding new > carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did you just > refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank water? I hope > so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all that > harmful. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! > > > I am woman, hear me roar! > > Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) and once I > got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the whole > cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, > (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). > > And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. > > Thanks for all the info and help, guys > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 10:03:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32758	From: Alina	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Swordtails are jumpers???!!

Sweet Mary and Joseph...I go out to the LFS tonight and come home with two red swordtails...because, hey, someone said they are really cool fish and I needed a couple of fish for my 10 gallon...and I was feeling all cocky because I doctored my own filter earlier today with great success (:-) )....so, I got some fish....so they're in there, life is good, altogether there are 4 fish in the tank 2 platys and 2 swordtails. I go watch tv for about an hour, and I come back and there are now 3 fish. I'm thinking, one's hiding or I've lost my mind for sure. But there's no sign of him. I look to the left, I look to the right...now I'm freaking out because I'm just certain I must have not noticed one fish didn't go in when I emptied the bag into my net...but I was sure I saw four, I mean, I SAW them in there....it's a 10 gallon for chrissakes...how do you lose a fish in a 10 gal?? And then, I look and there's the missing swordtail, lying next to a small bag next to my tank. I'm thinking he's dead, so I pick him up and he starts to move...so I hurry up and put him in the tank and he's swimming around....but seriously, I think he was out of the water awhile.... how in the world did he survive? And now what? Is he just a dead fish walking? Should I give him some first aid for freak fish? And how the heck to I keep him in there now? Is this typical ...He got out through the filter opening. I mean, that's a fish that's got good aim! Freaky Fish Owner in Florida (Often known as Alina)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32759	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Lighting/Amber

The blue spectrum promotes vegetative growth in plants (so the stage from seed to before a flower/tomato etc), the yellowish spectrum is for flowering a plant, that is when they do the fastest growing, but they don't grow very many roots at the same time. At the same time the natural sun turns more yellow than blue the time the light is available usually shortens as well, which is what really starts the process of making a plant flower. I would assume the same aspects as outdoor lighting should somewhat apply to aquarium lighting with plants. But I am no expert ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yes, the 80W (2 x 40) shop light will help acclimate them. So that is > about > 2.5X's more than you had so turn it on for a little less than half the > time. > If you were running the 30 watts for 10 hours (10 x 30 = 300), run the 80 > watts for 4 hours (4 x 80 = 320). Then when the new lighting comes in, you > could run it for 3 hours (3 x 130 = 390) and work your way back up to > the 8 > hour range over the course of a week or two depending on how your > plants are > doing. You'll probably see them pearling (air bubbles forming on the > leaves) with all of this upgraded lighting. > > I'm not sure about all the spectrum stuff.. lol.. but if you were > using them > to grow plants, then I bought some "Plant/Aquarium" 18" tubes for one of > my 10G's and it has a yellowish color to it. Next time, I'll get the > Daylight bulbs. Those give the most natural color to me. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > I'm replying to myself because I just changed my lighting temporarily > until > my new light fixture gets here. > I realized that I had an old shop light sitting downstairs with 2, 48" > plant bulbs in it (40 watts each bulb), so I snagged it and brought it > upstairs to see if it still works. I was using it for plants I had > downstairs this spring/summer when I was growing basil/cilantro etc. It is > more of a blue spectrum lighting, is this going to be okay for my > plants in > the meantime? > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I found one of the old boxes from the bulbs that are currently in my > > hood, they are only 15 watts each, so this is a drastic improvement > > for my tank, LOL. I will have 50 watts more on each side of the tank > > ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well.. if hubby can't explain it, I'm not getting in the middle of > > > it either. LOL OK.. maybe I'll try one more time. > > > > > > You just need to do like Alina did a few minutes ago... You are > > > woman, hear you ROAR!!! > > > > > > Imagine you were dealing with just a number. If you had a number 1 > > > over the tank, that would add up to 1. If you had a number 1 over > > > each half > > of the > > > tank, then yow you have a total of 2 over the entire tank.... it's > > > no longer just a 1 over the entire tank. The same goes for watts per > > > gallon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > How come having one bulb on each side isnt' the same as having one > > > long one across the tank? I just don't understand why it's added up, > > > LOL. My husband even tried to explain and I was so lost ;) To me it > > > seems like it should be > > > 65 watts across the aquarium since there's a bulb on each side (they > > don't > > > extend all the way, they are 21" > > > long). > > > > > > I'm sorry if this seems silly. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > You still add up the total wattage of all the bulbs. For example, > > > > if you had a single 4' long tube that was 65 watts, that would be > > > > 65 watts per gallon. With two 65 watt PCF's, you have 65 watts > > > > over each half of the 55G tank so you have 65 watts over 27.5 > > > > gallons of water, on each half of the tank, for a total of 130 > > > > watts over the entire 55G tank. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:14 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > I have "cheapo" 18" bulbs from walmart, I honestly don't know > > > > about the watts as my husband got them for me 2 months ago. They > > > > are standard "aquarium" bulbs from walmart though. Yes there is > an 18" > > > > bulb on each side of my 48" aquarium. The hood expands to use 24" > > > > bulbs on each side, but is so rusted from being over 10 years old > > > > that I wasn't sure if I could take it apart and move it without > > > > breaking it, that is why I decided to upgrade to a better hood. > > > > The one I'm getting has only one bulb on each side that is 65 > > > > watts, how does that add up to 130 if there is a bulb on each > > > > side? seems like it would be 65 watts across the aqarium. I'm so > > > > confused, LOL > > > > > > > > I leave my lights on for 10.5 hours, they are on timers. > > > > I don't have a pleco as the LFS has a hard time getting them to > live. > > > > I have > > > > also heard terrible "rumours" about plecos "eating" other fish. I > > > > have always kept dwarf pleco's but our LFS doesn't order them, > > > > they just get the common cheap pleco's that can get huge. There > > > > are some days that I really miss the old fish store ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Although it might be a great deal, it would be too much > > > > > lighting, unless you have plans for another tank or if you could > > > > > unplug one of the CFL's on each side so you still only have the > > > > > total of 130 > > watts. > > > > > And then you would have two extra CFL bulbs as replacements. > > > > > > > > > > Your last sentence mentions "the single 65 watt" but I'm > > > > > guessing you mean one 65 watt on each side? That is considered > > > > > 130 total > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > If you tried to use the four bulb set-up, you'd have 260 total > > > > > watts on a 55G tank which would be around 5 watts per gallon. > > > > > That's a > > LOT. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not a plant expert but remember that you need a balance of > > > > > light, > > > > > CO2 and nutrients to have healthy plants without getting an > > > > > abundance of algae. > > > > > If any of these three things go out of balance, you will either > > > > > have sick/dying plants or a lot of algae. This is what I'm > > > > > worried about with even the current upgrade you are doing. > > > > > > > > > > I know you mentioned it earlier but I do not see it in this > > > > > email but didn't you have a 36" dual tube fluorescent fixture > > > > > now or > > two 18" > > > > > fixtures? What is the total wattage on that and how long are you > > > > > leaving that light fixture on each day? > > > > > > > > > > For example purposes, if your current lighting is a total of 55 > > > > > watts > > > > > (1 > > > > > WPG) and you are leaving the lights on 10 hours a day, so a > > > > > total of 550 watts a day. If your new lighting is going to be > > > > > 130 watts, then > > > > > 4-5 hours a day would give the same amount of total wattage. If > > > > > you left this new fixture on for 10 hours, you would be doubling > > > > > the lighting but your other parts of the plant trilogy... CO2 > > > > > and nutrients... would not have doubled and the plants wouldn't > > > > > be immediately able to handle that much anyhow... so you would > > > > > likely end up with algae. > > > > > > > > > > I guess what I'm getting at, is you will have to limit the > > > > > amount of lighting to 4-5 hours at first and then as you add > > > > > more plants and/or your other plants start growing faster, then > > > > > you could leave the lights on longer, maybe increasing the time > > > > > the lights are on by an hour each week or so, until you have > > > > > them on 8 hours a day (more or less depending on how your tank and > plants are doing). > > > > > > > > > > As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I upgraded my > > > > > lighting on my 65G tank from a little less than 1 WPG to around > > > > > 1.5 WPG now, I started getting algae until my plants took off > > > > > better. Personally, I don't mind a little algae like some folks > > > > > do so it was no big deal for me and I had just gotten a new > > > > > little clown pleco so he needed the algae to eat anyhow. He is > > > > > starting to get ahead of the algae growth now so I'll be > > > > > extending the lighting time as he gets caught up completely. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > I found a person on ebay who has the same light except it's > > > > > double CFL's at > > > > > 65 watts each, so it'd be 130 watts on each side of the tank. I > > > > > would only pay a little more than the light I already found on > > > > > another site online. I'm just not sure if I need to cancel my > > > > > other order and go for the one on ebay instead, it's definately > > > > > a better deal for the watts but if I don't need that many watts > > > > > I will go with the single 65 watt light setup that I already put > > > > > in an order > > > for. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > No Wally-World either? Are you the member in the boonies of > > Alaska? > > > > > > I forget what part of the world you are located in. That's > > > > > > always > > > > helpful. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have an office supply place? But even your mom and pop > > > > > > hardware should sell a shoplight fixture and the bulbs for them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting/Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah too bad I don't have a home depot ;) Our local hardware > > > > > > stores are also very limited unless you want to wait for them > > > > > > to order something for you and barge it up, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. if you want good lighting on the cheap.. then a 4' > > > > > > > "Shop > > > > Light" > > > > > > > fixture from Home Depot and then a couple of Daylight bulbs > > > > > > > and you should have all the lighting you'll need for $20 to > > > > > > > $30 depending on if you catch sale prices or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32760	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

So what is recommended instead of carbon? I'm still using carbon but have heard that you can run your tank without carbon as well. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > And pretty soon, you'll decide to quit running carbon and save that money > too. LOL Then you could get you a new pair of shoes.... or a tricked out > name tag (Hopefully you've seen the Progressive Insurance commercials > so you > know what I'm talking about. It was just on while I was typing this. LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! > > Tsk, Tsk...what do you take me for? A newbie?? (ha!) Of course I > rinsed out > the carbon in used tank water ..just like you've posted a gizillion times. > Feels good to know I don't have to go out and spend a fortune on those > filter cartridges. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL > > > > Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary > > Doctorate Of Filterology. > > > > You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding > new > > carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did > you just > > refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank > water? I hope > > so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all > that > > harmful. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! > > > > > > I am woman, hear me roar! > > > > Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) > and once I > > got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the > whole > > cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, > > (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). > > > > And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. > > > > Thanks for all the info and help, guys > > > > Alina > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 10:03:38 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32761	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich

Giant heat fluctuations do not cause ich. Ich is a parasite. Ich causes ich when it is able to overcome the immunity defenses of the fish. Ich does not require a temperature variation to take hold on a fish or a number of fish in a tank. If the fish are otherwise healthy and well fed, it is not likely that a large temperature fluctuation or two will enable the parasite to gain a foothold. On the other hand, if the tank is overcrowded, the water quality is not optimum, and/or other stress factors are present, the fish are more likely to suffer an infection or infestation of some sort, no t matter what may be considered to be the trigger. Of course, this does not mean you should not worry about such things, as when your heater goes whacky, and does not provide an even temperature for your fish, but, it is not something to totally freak about either. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich I wasn't trying to turn up the heat, and giant heat fluctuations cause ich

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32762	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

Regular 25%+ PWC's is the best thing, instead of carbon. They will remove the pollution and replace the trace elements that the fish/plants need. Carbon can actually remove some of the good things in the water that the fish/plants need also. A lot of the concepts, like carbon, were started many, many years ago but back then, folks were also doing complete breakdown's of their tanks on a regular basis and doing 100% PWC's with "aged water" as that is what was thought to be the best thing. The fish back then were a lot hardier than many of the inbred's that we have today so the fish did well with these procedures that we might consider crazy today. The filter companies have a vested interest in perpetuating many of these "old" concepts as it helps them sell products that aren't really needed most of the time.... same with the changing of the filter cartridges which are actually a bad thing to do.. especially on a new un-planted tank. A mature, planted tank has a little more forgiveness with the nitrogen cycle compared to a recently set up un-planted tank. Most of the other chemicals they sell at pet stores are also pushed on people when they really aren't needed. Now, all this said, in a tank that is heavily stocked or overstocked, using carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media is a good thing to help remove some of the DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) that might build up between PWC's (I use Purigen in my goldfish tank and it's not supposed to remove the good things while only removing the bad things). Once again, this is only for heavily stocked tanks that I would advise the need for chemical filtration... or if someone wants to be lazy and not do their proper tank maintenance (BOOOO!!!! LOL)... but even with the Purigen running in both of my filters, I still do the 25% PWC to replace the trace elements and dilute the pollution in the tank. I've always run my other tanks, in the past, without carbon unless I am using it as a temporary thing to remove a medical treatment or possible contamination. Even though I only have two fancy goldfish in my 65G tank, I still consider it to be heavily stocked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! So what is recommended instead of carbon? I'm still using carbon but have heard that you can run your tank without carbon as well. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > And pretty soon, you'll decide to quit running carbon and save that > money too. LOL Then you could get you a new pair of shoes.... or a > tricked out name tag (Hopefully you've seen the Progressive Insurance > commercials so you know what I'm talking about. It was just on while I > was typing this. LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! > > Tsk, Tsk...what do you take me for? A newbie?? (ha!) Of course I > rinsed out the carbon in used tank water ..just like you've posted a > gizillion times. > Feels good to know I don't have to go out and spend a fortune on those > filter cartridges. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL > > > > Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary > > Doctorate Of Filterology. > > > > You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding > new > > carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did > you just > > refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank > water? I hope > > so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all > that > > harmful. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! > > > > > > I am woman, hear me roar! > > > > Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) > and once I > > got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the > whole > > cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, > > (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). > > > > And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. > > > > Thanks for all the info and help, guys > > > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 10:51:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32763	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Swordtails are jumpers???!!

Alina, All fish can be considered to be jumpers. It is that some are more likely to take a leap than others. Fish that live in the top third of the water column are more likely to be jumpers than those who spend very little time, or none, at the surface. You can minimize the chance of fish jumping by giving them plenty of cover by way of floating plants or by using plants that will place leaves at or near the surface of the water. The whole surface should not be covered, but you should have enough to make it look like there is some security there from the fish's point of view. Take a look at your tank's cover. Wow, those are some pretty big holes there. Cover them up the best you can. The smaller the egress, the less likely a fish will find its way out (an egress is not a bird waiting to eat your fish--though that excuse could come in handy when you lose that $80 fish and have to explain it to your spouse--yep, it looks like the egress got 'im.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Swordtails are jumpers???!! Sweet Mary and Joseph...I go out to the LFS tonight and come home with two red swordtails...because, hey, someone said they are really cool fish and I needed a couple of fish for my 10 gallon...and I was feeling all cocky because I doctored my own filter earlier today with great success (:-) )....so, I got some fish....so they're in there, life is good, altogether there are 4 fish in the tank 2 platys and 2 swordtails. I go watch tv for about an hour, and I come back and there are now 3 fish. I'm thinking, one's hiding or I've lost my mind for sure. But there's no sign of him. I look to the left, I look to the right...now I'm freaking out because I'm just certain I must have not noticed one fish didn't go in when I emptied the bag into my net...but I was sure I saw four, I mean, I SAW them in there....it's a 10 gallon for chrissakes...how do you lose a fish in a 10 gal?? And then, I look and there's the missing swordtail, lying next to a small bag next to my tank. I'm thinking he's dead, so I pick him up and he starts to move...so I hurry up and put him in the tank and he's swimming around....but seriously, I think he was out of the water awhile.... how in the world did he survive? And now what? Is he just a dead fish walking? Should I give him some first aid for freak fish? And how the heck to I keep him in there now? Is this typical ...He got out through the filter opening. I mean, that's a fish that's got good aim! Freaky Fish Owner in Florida (Often known as Alina)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32764	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

How often does one need to do pwc's on a new tank? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! Regular 25%+ PWC's is the best thing, instead of carbon. They will remove the pollution and replace the trace elements that the fish/plants need. Carbon can actually remove some of the good things in the water that the fish/plants need also. A lot of the concepts, like carbon, were started many, many years ago but back then, folks were also doing complete breakdown's of their tanks on a regular basis and doing 100% PWC's with "aged water" as that is what was thought to be the best thing. The fish back then were a lot hardier than many of the inbred's that we have today so the fish did well with these procedures that we might consider crazy today. The filter companies have a vested interest in perpetuating many of these "old" concepts as it helps them sell products that aren't really needed most of the time.... same with the changing of the filter cartridges which are actually a bad thing to do.. especially on a new un-planted tank. A mature, planted tank has a little more forgiveness with the nitrogen cycle compared to a recently set up un-planted tank. Most of the other chemicals they sell at pet stores are also pushed on people when they really aren't needed. Now, all this said, in a tank that is heavily stocked or overstocked, using carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media is a good thing to help remove some of the DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) that might build up between PWC's (I use Purigen in my goldfish tank and it's not supposed to remove the good things while only removing the bad things). Once again, this is only for heavily stocked tanks that I would advise the need for chemical filtration... or if someone wants to be lazy and not do their proper tank maintenance (BOOOO!!!! LOL)... but even with the Purigen running in both of my filters, I still do the 25% PWC to replace the trace elements and dilute the pollution in the tank. I've always run my other tanks, in the past, without carbon unless I am using it as a temporary thing to remove a medical treatment or possible contamination. Even though I only have two fancy goldfish in my 65G tank, I still consider it to be heavily stocked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! So what is recommended instead of carbon? I'm still using carbon but have heard that you can run your tank without carbon as well. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > And pretty soon, you'll decide to quit running carbon and save that > money too. LOL Then you could get you a new pair of shoes.... or a > tricked out name tag (Hopefully you've seen the Progressive Insurance > commercials so you know what I'm talking about. It was just on while I > was typing this. LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! > > Tsk, Tsk...what do you take me for? A newbie?? (ha!) Of course I > rinsed out the carbon in used tank water ..just like you've posted a > gizillion times. > Feels good to know I don't have to go out and spend a fortune on those > filter cartridges. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL > > > > Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary > > Doctorate Of Filterology. > > > > You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding > new > > carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did > you just > > refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank > water? I hope > > so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all > that > > harmful. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! > > > > > > I am woman, hear me roar! > > > > Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) > and once I > > got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the > whole > > cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, > > (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). > > > > And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. > > > > Thanks for all the info and help, guys > > > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 10:51:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32765	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

Weekly 25% PWC's is the general rule that should be followed, IMO, but if your tank is heavily stocked or undersized, it may need PWC's even more often. If a tank is lightly stocked, then less frequent PWC's may be an option. A "new" tank could need it much more often if cycling with fish. Tell us more about your tank and I could give better info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! How often does one need to do pwc's on a new tank? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! Regular 25%+ PWC's is the best thing, instead of carbon. They will remove the pollution and replace the trace elements that the fish/plants need. Carbon can actually remove some of the good things in the water that the fish/plants need also. A lot of the concepts, like carbon, were started many, many years ago but back then, folks were also doing complete breakdown's of their tanks on a regular basis and doing 100% PWC's with "aged water" as that is what was thought to be the best thing. The fish back then were a lot hardier than many of the inbred's that we have today so the fish did well with these procedures that we might consider crazy today. The filter companies have a vested interest in perpetuating many of these "old" concepts as it helps them sell products that aren't really needed most of the time.... same with the changing of the filter cartridges which are actually a bad thing to do.. especially on a new un-planted tank. A mature, planted tank has a little more forgiveness with the nitrogen cycle compared to a recently set up un-planted tank. Most of the other chemicals they sell at pet stores are also pushed on people when they really aren't needed. Now, all this said, in a tank that is heavily stocked or overstocked, using carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media is a good thing to help remove some of the DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) that might build up between PWC's (I use Purigen in my goldfish tank and it's not supposed to remove the good things while only removing the bad things). Once again, this is only for heavily stocked tanks that I would advise the need for chemical filtration... or if someone wants to be lazy and not do their proper tank maintenance (BOOOO!!!! LOL)... but even with the Purigen running in both of my filters, I still do the 25% PWC to replace the trace elements and dilute the pollution in the tank. I've always run my other tanks, in the past, without carbon unless I am using it as a temporary thing to remove a medical treatment or possible contamination. Even though I only have two fancy goldfish in my 65G tank, I still consider it to be heavily stocked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! So what is recommended instead of carbon? I'm still using carbon but have heard that you can run your tank without carbon as well. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > And pretty soon, you'll decide to quit running carbon and save that > money too. LOL Then you could get you a new pair of shoes.... or a > tricked out name tag (Hopefully you've seen the Progressive Insurance > commercials so you know what I'm talking about. It was just on while I > was typing this. LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! > > Tsk, Tsk...what do you take me for? A newbie?? (ha!) Of course I > rinsed out the carbon in used tank water ..just like you've posted a > gizillion times. > Feels good to know I don't have to go out and spend a fortune on those > filter cartridges. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL > > > > Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary > > Doctorate Of Filterology. > > > > You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding > new > > carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did > you just > > refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank > water? I hope > > so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all > that > > harmful. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! > > > > > > I am woman, hear me roar! > > > > Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) > and once I > > got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the > whole > > cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, > > (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). > > > > And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. > > > > Thanks for all the info and help, guys > > > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 11:43:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32766	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

It is a 10 gallon tank with 3 gold fish comet style i believe  am looking for a larger tank  has no decorations yet in it. I use filtered water in it as the well water has alot of iron in it. not sure what you mean by cycling as iam fairly new to aquariums.Iam not sure of the age. as I rescued them from a tank(previous owner of the trailer we are buying wants to keep tank and fish) but at present moment not feeding them. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:43 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! Weekly 25% PWC's is the general rule that should be followed, IMO, but if your tank is heavily stocked or undersized, it may need PWC's even more often. If a tank is lightly stocked, then less frequent PWC's may be an option. A "new" tank could need it much more often if cycling with fish. Tell us more about your tank and I could give better info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! How often does one need to do pwc's on a new tank? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! Regular 25%+ PWC's is the best thing, instead of carbon. They will remove the pollution and replace the trace elements that the fish/plants need. Carbon can actually remove some of the good things in the water that the fish/plants need also. A lot of the concepts, like carbon, were started many, many years ago but back then, folks were also doing complete breakdown's of their tanks on a regular basis and doing 100% PWC's with "aged water" as that is what was thought to be the best thing. The fish back then were a lot hardier than many of the inbred's that we have today so the fish did well with these procedures that we might consider crazy today. The filter companies have a vested interest in perpetuating many of these "old" concepts as it helps them sell products that aren't really needed most of the time.... same with the changing of the filter cartridges which are actually a bad thing to do.. especially on a new un-planted tank. A mature, planted tank has a little more forgiveness with the nitrogen cycle compared to a recently set up un-planted tank. Most of the other chemicals they sell at pet stores are also pushed on people when they really aren't needed. Now, all this said, in a tank that is heavily stocked or overstocked, using carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media is a good thing to help remove some of the DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) that might build up between PWC's (I use Purigen in my goldfish tank and it's not supposed to remove the good things while only removing the bad things). Once again, this is only for heavily stocked tanks that I would advise the need for chemical filtration... or if someone wants to be lazy and not do their proper tank maintenance (BOOOO!!!! LOL)... but even with the Purigen running in both of my filters, I still do the 25% PWC to replace the trace elements and dilute the pollution in the tank. I've always run my other tanks, in the past, without carbon unless I am using it as a temporary thing to remove a medical treatment or possible contamination. Even though I only have two fancy goldfish in my 65G tank, I still consider it to be heavily stocked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! So what is recommended instead of carbon? I'm still using carbon but have heard that you can run your tank without carbon as well. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > And pretty soon, you'll decide to quit running carbon and save that > money too. LOL Then you could get you a new pair of shoes.... or a > tricked out name tag (Hopefully you've seen the Progressive Insurance > commercials so you know what I'm talking about. It was just on while I > was typing this. LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! > > Tsk, Tsk...what do you take me for? A newbie?? (ha!) Of course I > rinsed out the carbon in used tank water ..just like you've posted a > gizillion times. > Feels good to know I don't have to go out and spend a fortune on those > filter cartridges. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL > > > > Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary > > Doctorate Of Filterology. > > > > You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding > new > > carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did > you just > > refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank > water? I hope > > so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all > that > > harmful. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! > > > > > > I am woman, hear me roar! > > > > Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) > and once I > > got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the > whole > > cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, > > (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). > > > > And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. > > > > Thanks for all the info and help, guys > > > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 11:43:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32767	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/9/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi John, I go to Vegas quite frequently to buy supplies for me ferrets. I had a son who lived in Pahrump and 3 others who lived in Vegas before movin g to Alabama 2 years ago to be close to my ex. Anyways, do you know of any good LFS in Vegas? Let me know. Thanks, Bill -------Original Message------- From: JOHN KD7POE Date: 11/9/2008 11:11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Bill I might take you up on that one day. I'm not that far from you. If you ever listen to the Las Vegas news, I am over the "Hump" in Pahrump. Pahrump is 65 miles NW of Las Vegas. John --- On Sun, 11/9/08, William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> wrote: From: William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 2:07 AM Hi John, Where are you located in Nevada? I am in Victorville, CA. On I-15 towards L.A. If you ever come down this way, drop me an e mail and stop in & say hello I am sure the wife would be glad to fix you a cuppa coffee. Bill -------Original Message----- -- From: JOHN KD7POE Date: 11/9/2008 1:55:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? HI Ray!! Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. 75 Gallon Tank - All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 Common Pleco 1 about 8" Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. John in Nevada --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your description. If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > Hi Ray & Mike > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you two have been posting. > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > John in Nevada > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32768	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: O.T.: Ham Radio, was - For Ray Wetzel

Hi Bill, Thanks for the info. Yes, I know "CQ" is a ham operator's general call out to listening stations on the particular frequency you're using at the time as an invitation to come back. This is exactly why I used this call (LOL). Like I said, I used to watch my buddy's (in high school) Dad operate his ham radio and it got interesting. This had to have been over 50 years ago, so it must have made an impression on me since I still remember it. Since you brought it up, I vaguely remember the Titanic had used another (different) distress call, but until you just mentioned it, I wasn't aware of what it was. I believe I picked up on that fact on one of the many documentary shows on the Titanic many years ago, possibly on the History Channel. I forgot it was a variation of the normally used "CQ" call. Out (signing off), Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, >   > Just for your general information or in case you get on the Hollywood Squares! >   > CQ is a code used by wireless operators, particularly those communicating in Morse code, but also by voice operators, to make a general call out to listening stations (called a CQ call). Transmitting the letters CQ on a particular radio frequency is an invitation for any operators listening on that frequency to respond. It is still widely used in amateur radio. >   > If you're a bit of an old movie buff as I am, you may also be interested to know that there was also a variant of the CQ call that you may remember or recognize from the movies.  "CQD", (Any station distress or emergency) was the first code used as a distress signal. It was proposed by the Marconi Company and adopted in 1904, but was replaced between 1906 and 1908 by the SOS code. However, when the Titanic sank in 1912, it transmitted the distress call CQD DE(means from or "this is") MGY (Titanic), MGY being the ship's radio call sign. >   > Just thought you might like to know, always good hearing from you >   > Bill >   > > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 10:04 PM > > > > > > > Hi Bill, About the only way I'm connected to "Ham" is when I act up > when joking around. No, I'm not a Ham (radio operator), but its got > to be interesting to talk to people from as far out as you can pull > in their signal. Sometimes skipping your signal can have you > reaching a good distance. I remember a friend's father being into > this so have some idea of what its all about. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > >   > > Are you a Ham too?  CQ-CQ-CQ? > >   > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:18 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, CQ, CQ, CQ -- I figured you had Rift Lake Cichlds. Nice > > assortment; I always did like the Melanochromis species, especially > > the M. melanopterus, ever since I first started importing that > > species but you just can't find that one around any longer (and I > > think its the nicest one of the Genus). > > > > I'm not sure if you realize that your mix of these Mbuna can > results > > in cross breeds, even if the possibility in your case is greatly > > reduced. They will usually not cross breed, unless there are no > > other fish of their species to breed with, but even then its still > > possible. The current ACA bulletin I had been discussing with Mike > > depicts a hybrid between Pseudotropheus perpuratus and > Labeotropheus > > fuelleborni as found in the wild (Lake Malawi) by Ad Konings -- and > > we can be certain there are others of both these species in their > > immediate environment. I've seen reports of Mbuna (Metriaclima > > zebra) hybridizing with Utaka/Peacock (Aulonocara stuartgranti) > > although this was in captivity, but it shows you the possible > > consequences. > > > > I would not normally recommend (and still don't) your alternating > the > > operations of your two filters with intervals of 3 - 3 1/2 days as > > your bi-weekly running of these filters indicate, but I can't argue > > with your results (parameters) . It does appear though, that you > may > > not realize that without continued operation of these filters, that > > much of the nitrifying bacteria will starve of oxygen resulting in > a > > die-back of them. Its always best to keep your filters running > > continually whenever you can. I like your choices of filters > however. > > > > Your bi-weekly PWC's should take care of any build-ups of minerals > > resulting from your high evaporation rate, but any slight increased > > mineral content should not affect these fish in the least. Just > that > > you need to monitor the water level moreso to ensure your HOB's > > (Aquaclears) operate efficiently. Looks like your tank is doing > > good, although its easy to see which male is the most dominant > > (lol). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> > wrote: > > > > > > HI  Ray!! > > >   > > > Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. > > >   > > > 75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place > > overnight about 6 yrs ago. > > >   > > > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed > > Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of > > the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum > > w/Diatomite Filter. > > >   > > > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp > 80 > > >   > > > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic > > cubes, > > >   > > > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. > > >   > > > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > > > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > > > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > > > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > > > Common Pleco 1 about 8" > > >   > > > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no > > problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! > > Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. > > >   > > > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry > > climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. > > >   > > > John in Nevada > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know > > what > > > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). > Perhaps > > > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > > > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > > > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the > > details > > > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > > > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > > > > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > > > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > > > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said > > here > > > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it > previously). > > > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > > > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > > > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > > > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a > similar > > > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from > > the > > > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive > > if > > > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to > > participate. > > > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by > > your > > > description. > > > > > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning > your > > > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you > in. > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > > > >   > > > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that > you > > > two have been posting. > > > >   > > > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 > Gallon > > > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish > > hide > > > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they > > recognize > > > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > > >   > > > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > > >   > > > > John in Nevada > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time > > convincing > > > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > > > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months > > ago > > > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > > > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always > > draws > > > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and > such > > a > > > wealth of information! > > > > > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for > the > > > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). > > Chuck > > > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and > had > > > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came > out > > > (got > > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it > by > > > Ad > > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in > > Malawi > > > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with > rock- > > > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom > > fish > > > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the > > original > > > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, > etc.). > > > As > > > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > > > dwell > > > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our > aquariums, > > > but > > > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't > > hide > > > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their > home > > > to > > > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came > out > > > (got > > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it > by > > > Ad > > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift > Lakes. > > > > > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > > of > > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > > because > > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > > and > > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are > > referring > > > > to, > > > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > > > just > > > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > > > varied > > > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring > cave- > > > > like > > > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as > there > > > are > > > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or > deep > > > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are > > quite > > > > at > > > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african > > Cichlids > > > > are > > > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > > of > > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > > because > > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > > and > > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would- be > > > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > > > attempt > > > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re- configuring > > the > > > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of > > view. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure > > how > > > > > it'll > > > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere > to > > > hide > > > > > or is > > > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish > > produce > > > > > eggs or > > > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids > a > > > good > > > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and > they > > > > produce > > > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs > should > > > > > survive, > > > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, > > fake > > > > tree > > > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a > > smaller > > > > > shelter > > > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has > taken > > > > that > > > > > over. > > > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32769	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

I don't know what your room temperature is dropping to, neither do I know at what temperature you prefer to keep your tank at. Your two 50 watt heaters are providing 5 Watts per gallon (for this 20 gallon tank). Five (5) Watts per gallon is enough to raise your tank's temperature to 12.5 o above the room temperature, i.e., if your room is at 66 degrees, these two heaters should be able to maintain your tank at 78.5 o. At a room temperature of 68 o, you should have no problem at all. As it appears your two 50 Watt heaters are Visi-Therms, try recalibrating (resetting) the thermostats in your heaters. I've read reports on here some years ago (before the name change), when this group was called "Freshwater Tropical Aquarium Fish," that after long periods of inactivity (Summer) these heaters sometimes need resetting to restore their accuracy. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I know that > on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 watt ones > in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't quite keeping > the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims that teh > deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland stealth heater? > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look identical, > only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32770	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray ---In AquaticLifeGroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and formulas > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per gallon of > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, then you > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will usually only > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most cases > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the needed > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if one of the > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be able to > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to compensate. If you > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could mean the > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith.com which > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale (click the > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal (from API) > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical mount. > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. The > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on the dial > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. It says it > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know that it > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few degrees > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price and only > $10.00 each. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 gallon > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska where it's > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater set usually > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems to set > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it would work > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as well. > I use one of these heaters: > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your set up :) > > Amber > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I know > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims that > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland stealth > > heater? > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 9:21:26 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32771	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: stupid cheap hob heater, temp flucuations, and possible ich

Adjusting heater thermostats which have no calibration, by just a turn of the adjusting knob, is almost like needing to acquire a fine art for it when you're not familiar with it yet. In between re-adjustments, you need to allow the bi-metallic strip to cool off before making another adjustment. This takes some patience in having the heater's neon indicator light to activate for more heat when the desired temperature is reached, and then to turn it down just a "notch," to stabilize it at that desired temp setting (this may require a number of mini-adjustments as you do this). You may still need to monitor it until you're sure it will no longer fluctuate. After a while, you automatically get a "feeling" for setting these. As Lenny points out, you should not anticipate an Ich outbreak as a result, although after such a temp rise it should not be dropped too fast. You may want to increase the aeration, but if you're not overstocked you really shouldn't have to. Just turn the heater down gradually; this may be a good way to finally adjust this heater to where you want it, as it probably wasn't set properly to begin with. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crjm28@...> wrote: > > My q tank went from 78 to 74 over night. I readjusted my heater and it > shot up to 88. I have a hob heater that you turn a nob one way to > turn it on and then when it reaches the desired temp you turn it > another to set it. I guess I didn't adjust it properly and it didn't > turn off. I predict ich now, and hopefully that is all. > > I have 6 serpe tetra, 2 fancy female guppies, and one pictus cat in my > q tank. I'm also using zeolite in the filter to absorb ammonia. What > should I do? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32772	From: Alina	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

Or a tricked out aquarium the size of my living room wall!!!!! :-) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > And pretty soon, you'll decide to quit running carbon and save that money > too. LOL Then you could get you a new pair of shoes.... or a tricked out > name tag (Hopefully you've seen the Progressive Insurance commercials so you > know what I'm talking about. It was just on while I was typing this. LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! > > > Tsk, Tsk...what do you take me for? A newbie?? (ha!) Of course I rinsed out > the carbon in used tank water ..just like you've posted a gizillion times. > Feels good to know I don't have to go out and spend a fortune on those > filter cartridges. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL > > > > Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary > > Doctorate Of Filterology. > > > > You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding > new > > carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did > you just > > refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank > water? I hope > > so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all > that > > harmful. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! > > > > > > I am woman, hear me roar! > > > > Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) > and once I > > got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the > whole > > cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, > > (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). > > > > And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. > > > > Thanks for all the info and help, guys > > > > Alina > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/9/2008 10:03:38 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32773	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

Oh yeah.. I remember now. In your case, you should be doing at least daily 25% PWC's.... maybe even more often since your ammonia/nitrite levels will be climbing considerably since you are stuck with "Cycling With Fish". Go to my blog and then go to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top, there are two free online tutorials that I suggest you read through and learn those basics of fish keeping. While on that page, also click on the links to Cycling With Fish so you'll know what you will have to do to keep your goldfish from suffering too much during the cycling process. When we refer to cycling, the cycle, etc., in aquaria, it refers to the Nitrogen Cycle, so pay attention to that section in the tutorials. This is one of the most important things to learn and understand. You should get a API Master Test Kit and the separate GH/KH combo test kit so you can start testing your water... right now, for ammonia and nitrites so you can do PWC's as needed to keep them at safe levels. If you had known about this first, you could have taken some of the gravel or the filter from their dirty tank and that would have gone a long way in helping you get your nitrogen cycle established in your new tank. Since the previous owner wants to keep the tank and fish, I hope your efforts don't result in them dying as that could post problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! It is a 10 gallon tank with 3 gold fish comet style i believe am looking for a larger tank has no decorations yet in it. I use filtered water in it as the well water has alot of iron in it. not sure what you mean by cycling as iam fairly new to aquariums.Iam not sure of the age. as I rescued them from a tank(previous owner of the trailer we are buying wants to keep tank and fish) but at present moment not feeding them. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:43 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! Weekly 25% PWC's is the general rule that should be followed, IMO, but if your tank is heavily stocked or undersized, it may need PWC's even more often. If a tank is lightly stocked, then less frequent PWC's may be an option. A "new" tank could need it much more often if cycling with fish. Tell us more about your tank and I could give better info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! How often does one need to do pwc's on a new tank? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! Regular 25%+ PWC's is the best thing, instead of carbon. They will remove the pollution and replace the trace elements that the fish/plants need. Carbon can actually remove some of the good things in the water that the fish/plants need also. A lot of the concepts, like carbon, were started many, many years ago but back then, folks were also doing complete breakdown's of their tanks on a regular basis and doing 100% PWC's with "aged water" as that is what was thought to be the best thing. The fish back then were a lot hardier than many of the inbred's that we have today so the fish did well with these procedures that we might consider crazy today. The filter companies have a vested interest in perpetuating many of these "old" concepts as it helps them sell products that aren't really needed most of the time.... same with the changing of the filter cartridges which are actually a bad thing to do.. especially on a new un-planted tank. A mature, planted tank has a little more forgiveness with the nitrogen cycle compared to a recently set up un-planted tank. Most of the other chemicals they sell at pet stores are also pushed on people when they really aren't needed. Now, all this said, in a tank that is heavily stocked or overstocked, using carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media is a good thing to help remove some of the DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) that might build up between PWC's (I use Purigen in my goldfish tank and it's not supposed to remove the good things while only removing the bad things). Once again, this is only for heavily stocked tanks that I would advise the need for chemical filtration... or if someone wants to be lazy and not do their proper tank maintenance (BOOOO!!!! LOL)... but even with the Purigen running in both of my filters, I still do the 25% PWC to replace the trace elements and dilute the pollution in the tank. I've always run my other tanks, in the past, without carbon unless I am using it as a temporary thing to remove a medical treatment or possible contamination. Even though I only have two fancy goldfish in my 65G tank, I still consider it to be heavily stocked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! So what is recommended instead of carbon? I'm still using carbon but have heard that you can run your tank without carbon as well. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > And pretty soon, you'll decide to quit running carbon and save that > money too. LOL Then you could get you a new pair of shoes.... or a > tricked out name tag (Hopefully you've seen the Progressive Insurance > commercials so you know what I'm talking about. It was just on while I > was typing this. LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! > > Tsk, Tsk...what do you take me for? A newbie?? (ha!) Of course I > rinsed out the carbon in used tank water ..just like you've posted a > gizillion times. > Feels good to know I don't have to go out and spend a fortune on those > filter cartridges. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL > > > > Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary > > Doctorate Of Filterology. > > > > You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding > new > > carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did > you just > > refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank > water? I hope > > so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all > that > > harmful. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! > > > > > > I am woman, hear me roar! > > > > Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) > and once I > > got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the > whole > > cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, > > (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). > > > > And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. > > > > Thanks for all the info and help, guys > > > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 11:43:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 1:19:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:15:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32774	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Hi again John, With all the discussion on "bi-weekly" vs. "bi- monthly," and the addition of "semi-monthly" thrown in as the proper ambiguous term to use (LOL), it seems part of your post was lost in the laughter. In getting back to your maintenance methods, you might want to consider changing out 25% (or even 30%) of the water per week, rather than 50% every two weeks. I can see you obviously are having success with your fish, and your parameters look fine, but coming from the "Big Lake," these fish are used to a more stable environment not involving large changes. The Lake's parameters remain fairly constant for the most part, except in areas where it receives an influx of some fourteen rivers' (North & South Rukuru, Dwangwa, Likongwe and Ruhutu Rivers, etc., most flowing in from the west) waters during the rainy season. Even then, this does little to change the conditions in that Lake, and often as a result of the topography, sandy littoral zones will be found in the areas surrounding the mouths of these rivers. The Utaka which inhabit these areas have the opportunity to travel more widely, avoiding much of the influence of these inflows. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > HI  Ray!! >   > Here is my Inventory and a little about what I run. >   > 75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. >   > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. >   > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 >   > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, >   > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. >   > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > Common Pleco 1 about 8" >   > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. >   > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. >   > John in Nevada > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your > description. > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > >   > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > two have been posting. > >   > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > >   > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > >   > > John in Nevada > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a > wealth of information! > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > As > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > dwell > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > but > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > to > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > > to, > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > just > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > varied > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > like > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > are > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > > at > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > > are > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > attempt > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > > it'll > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > hide > > > or is > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > > eggs or > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > good > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > produce > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > survive, > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > > tree > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > > shelter > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > that > > > over. > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32775	From: Alina	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Swordtails are jumpers???!!

Steve, Sounds like a reasonable plan. I've not had a fish try, much less succeed, in getting out of the tank...I'm amazed. And this guy is gorgeous. Flame red, just beautiful. I hope he hangs in there awhile. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Alina, > > All fish can be considered to be jumpers. It is that some are more > likely to take a leap than others. Fish that live in the top third of > the water column are more likely to be jumpers than those who spend very > little time, or none, at the surface. > > You can minimize the chance of fish jumping by giving them plenty of > cover by way of floating plants or by using plants that will place > leaves at or near the surface of the water. The whole surface should not > be covered, but you should have enough to make it look like there is > some security there from the fish's point of view. > > Take a look at your tank's cover. Wow, those are some pretty big holes > there. Cover them up the best you can. The smaller the egress, the less > likely a fish will find its way out (an egress is not a bird waiting to > eat your fish--though that excuse could come in handy when you lose that > $80 fish and have to explain it to your spouse--yep, it looks like the > egress got 'im.) > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Swordtails are jumpers???!! > > > Sweet Mary and Joseph...I go out to the LFS tonight and come home > with two red swordtails...because, hey, someone said they are really > cool fish and I needed a couple of fish for my 10 gallon...and I was > feeling all cocky because I doctored my own filter earlier today with > great success (:-) )....so, I got some fish....so they're in there, > life is good, altogether there are 4 fish in the tank 2 platys and 2 > swordtails. > > I go watch tv for about an hour, and I come back and there are now 3 > fish. I'm thinking, one's hiding or I've lost my mind for sure. But > there's no sign of him. I look to the left, I look to the right...now > I'm freaking out because I'm just certain I must have not noticed one > fish didn't go in when I emptied the bag into my net...but I was sure > I saw four, I mean, I SAW them in there....it's a 10 gallon for > chrissakes...how do you lose a fish in a 10 gal?? > > And then, I look and there's the missing swordtail, lying next to a > small bag next to my tank. I'm thinking he's dead, so I pick him up > and he starts to move...so I hurry up and put him in the tank and > he's swimming around....but seriously, I think he was out of the > water awhile.... how in the world did he survive? And now what? Is he > just a dead fish walking? Should I give him some first aid for freak > fish? > > And how the heck to I keep him in there now? Is this typical ...He > got out through the filter opening. I mean, that's a fish that's got > good aim! > > Freaky Fish Owner in Florida > (Often known as Alina) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32776	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith.com, PetsMart.com, BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray ---In AquaticLifeGroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and formulas > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per gallon of > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, then you > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will usually only > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most cases > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the needed > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if one of the > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be able to > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to compensate. If you > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could mean the > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith.com which > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale (click the > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal (from API) > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical mount. > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. The > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on the dial > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. It says it > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know that it > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few degrees > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price and only > $10.00 each. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 gallon > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska where it's > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater set usually > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems to set > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it would work > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as well. > I use one of these heaters: > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your set up :) > > Amber > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I know > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims that > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland stealth > > heater? > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32777	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Well, actually my room temperature is dropping as low as 68 degrees, but a bigger problem seems to be the tank is in front of the open window, and the window air conditioner when I run it (when the outside temperature is above 55) is directly behind and blowing on the tank. The logistics of the room leave no way around that. Tank temperature is droppign to the low 70's and the tetras lose their appetites. Even the danios get less enthusiastic. Those fish have no need for food if they're cold. Anyway, you're not answering my question. I need to know which heater to get. Which is teh better heater? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 6:08 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? I don't know what your room temperature is dropping to, neither do I know at what temperature you prefer to keep your tank at. Your two 50 watt heaters are providing 5 Watts per gallon (for this 20 gallon tank). Five (5) Watts per gallon is enough to raise your tank's temperature to 12.5 o above the room temperature, i.e., if your room is at 66 degrees, these two heaters should be able to maintain your tank at 78.5 o. At a room temperature of 68 o, you should have no problem at all. As it appears your two 50 Watt heaters are Visi-Therms, try recalibrating (resetting) the thermostats in your heaters. I've read reports on here some years ago (before the name change), when this group was called "Freshwater Tropical Aquarium Fish," that after long periods of inactivity (Summer) these heaters sometimes need resetting to restore their accuracy. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I know that > on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 watt ones > in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't quite keeping > the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims that teh > deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland stealth heater? > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look identical, > only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32778	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same brand. I googled and not getting clarity. Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is cheaper. I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the features. Eheim is atleast reliable. Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just more expensive. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith.com, PetsMart.com, BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray ---In AquaticLifeGroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and formulas > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per gallon of > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, then you > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will usually only > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most cases > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the needed > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if one of the > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be able to > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to compensate. If you > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could mean the > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith.com which > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale (click the > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal (from API) > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical mount. > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. The > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on the dial > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. It says it > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know that it > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few degrees > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price and only > $10.00 each. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 gallon > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska where it's > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater set usually > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems to set > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it would work > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as well. > I use one of these heaters: > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your set up :) > > Amber > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I know > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims that > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland stealth > > heater? > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32779	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Morning Ray   That good advice I'm Sure and I will start doing that and see if there is any changes.   The one thing that I forgot to mention was that I have sand as a substrate. Beautiful White Sand. The only problem is that when I purchased the sand I was advised that one of the nicest sands was silica sand, Well it is except that silica is really ground glass and ground glass scratches my Tank Glass. I would never use it again.   The fish I have all redesign my tank on a constant basis. They are constantly building big mounds of sand and I am breaking them up before they turn aerobic (Spelling).   I am constantly having to restore my design. It is funny to see the fish pick the sand up in their mouth and constantly building these hills. At times, they have it redesigned within an hour of my restoration.   And who said this was DULL Hobby!!!!!!   John in Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 6:19 AM Hi again John, With all the discussion on "bi-weekly" vs. "bi- monthly," and the addition of "semi-monthly" thrown in as the proper ambiguous term to use (LOL), it seems part of your post was lost in the laughter. In getting back to your maintenance methods, you might want to consider changing out 25% (or even 30%) of the water per week, rather than 50% every two weeks. I can see you obviously are having success with your fish, and your parameters look fine, but coming from the "Big Lake," these fish are used to a more stable environment not involving large changes. The Lake's parameters remain fairly constant for the most part, except in areas where it receives an influx of some fourteen rivers' (North & South Rukuru, Dwangwa, Likongwe and Ruhutu Rivers, etc., most flowing in from the west) waters during the rainy season. Even then, this does little to change the conditions in that Lake, and often as a result of the topography, sandy littoral zones will be found in the areas surrounding the mouths of these rivers. The Utaka which inhabit these areas have the opportunity to travel more widely, avoiding much of the influence of these inflows. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > HI  Ray!! >   > Here is my Inventory and a little about what I run. >   > 75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. >   > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. >   > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 >   > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, >   > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. >   > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > Common Pleco 1 about 8" >   > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. >   > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. >   > John in Nevada > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your > description. > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > >   > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > two have been posting. > >   > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > >   > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > >   > > John in Nevada > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a > wealth of information! > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > -Mike > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > As > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > dwell > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > but > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > to > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > (got > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > Ad > > Konings. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > > to, > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > just > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > varied > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > like > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > are > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > > at > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > > are > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > because > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > situation. > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > attempt > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > > it'll > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > hide > > > or is > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > > eggs or > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > good > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > produce > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > survive, > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > > tree > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > > shelter > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > that > > > over. > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32780	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Surely you've heard of Rena? Owned by API http://www.aquariumpharm.com? They make Rena Filstar Canister filters, Rena Air Pumps, Rena Cal heaters, etc., etc., etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same brand. I googled and not getting clarity. Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is cheaper. I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the features. Eheim is atleast reliable. Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just more expensive. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith.com, PetsMart.com, BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray ---In AquaticLifeGroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and formulas > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per gallon of > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, then you > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will usually only > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most cases > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the needed > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if one of the > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be able to > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to compensate. If you > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could mean the > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith.com which > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale (click the > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal (from API) > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical mount. > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. The > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on the dial > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. It says it > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know that it > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few degrees > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price and only > $10.00 each. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 gallon > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska where it's > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater set usually > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems to set > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it would work > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as well. > I use one of these heaters: > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your set up :) > > Amber > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I know > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims that > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland stealth > > heater? > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:45:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32781	From: bill1433	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Acrylic Tanks and Yahoo Mail

Good Morning Everyone! � I�d like to raise a question that may be coming to bear on my purchasing a new tank, glass or acrylic and the money! � Since there has been some talk lately about tank heaters, I had heard some time ago that as far as use of electricity goes, this is where an acrylic tank has it over glass, they will hold a temperature better and longer (in the event of a power failure).� Is this true?� Economics�are involved here and certainly thermodynamics. � Next question?� On the heaters themselves, which one?� I have seen some at 150 watts with micro�chips that run almost a $100.� Can someone advise on a good, reliable heater at this wattage that will not give cause for another mortgage. � Last question?� Many times in this group I respond to �my new friends� here through a posted message.� When I click reply in Yahoo mail and get to the respond window, I cannot delete or shorten any part of that message except for the title line.� Am I doing something wrong or is this the way the moderators have this groups account set up?� How do I change this? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32782	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Morning Bill   No Actually I hve never bought anything at a LFS in Las Vegas.   We had one good one open up in Pahrump. He invested a lot of money. It took him about six months to build his store and about just as long to close up and go out of business. The one thing he never learned was Customer Service.   I do everything on the Internet, Cheaper and in many case faster.   My fish were all ordered over the Internet and sent Overnight from PA. That was 6 yrs ago and they are as healthy today as the day I received them. I gusee from the point of the LFS, I am not a good customer because I don't keep buying and killing fish. And I keep my equipment for a long time.   Have a good day John --- On Sun, 11/9/08, William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> wrote: From: William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 10:37 PM Hi John, I go to Vegas quite frequently to buy supplies for me ferrets. I had a son who lived in Pahrump and 3 others who lived in Vegas before movin g to Alabama 2 years ago to be close to my ex. Anyways, do you know of any good LFS in Vegas? Let me know. Thanks, Bill -------Original Message----- -- From: JOHN KD7POE Date: 11/9/2008 11:11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? Hi Bill I might take you up on that one day. I'm not that far from you. If you ever listen to the Las Vegas news, I am over the "Hump" in Pahrump. Pahrump is 65 miles NW of Las Vegas. John --- On Sun, 11/9/08, William J. Scott <w.j.scott@verizon. net> wrote: From: William J. Scott <w.j.scott@verizon. net> Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 2:07 AM Hi John, Where are you located in Nevada? I am in Victorville, CA. On I-15 towards L.A. If you ever come down this way, drop me an e mail and stop in & say hello I am sure the wife would be glad to fix you a cuppa coffee. Bill -------Original Message----- -- From: JOHN KD7POE Date: 11/9/2008 1:55:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? HI Ray!! Hee is my Inventory and a little about what I run. 75 Gallon Tank - All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place overnight about 6 yrs ago. I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum w/Diatomite Filter. My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic cubes, Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 Common Pleco 1 about 8" Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. John in Nevada --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know what I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the details of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said here what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from the otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive if the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to participate. I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by your description. If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > Hi Ray & Mike > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you two have been posting. > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish hide in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they recognize me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > John in Nevada > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time convincing them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months ago at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always draws a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such a wealth of information! > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). Chuck did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > -Mike > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in Malawi > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom fish > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the original > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). As > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna dwell > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, but > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't hide > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home to > feed on their surfaces. > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out (got > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by Ad > Konings. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are referring > to, > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" just > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > varied > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > like > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there are > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are quite > at > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african Cichlids > are > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas of > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > because > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) and > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > situation. > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > attempt > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring the > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of view. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure how > > it'll > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to hide > > or is > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish produce > > eggs or > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a good > > snack ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > produce > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > survive, > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, fake > tree > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a smaller > > shelter > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > that > > over. > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32783	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

OK, the plot thickens. Here's the post grown somewhat jumbled I'm posting on the online forums. No, Lenny, I've never heard of a Rena and don't want one, unless, of course, that's simply another clone of teh same heater. I understand that teh Eheim Visitherm Stealth heater has the best rating for holding up and not failing as well as for value for price. Drs Foster And Smith are selling an Eheim Visitherm Deluxe heater as well for exactly the same price and claim it is their best heater. See http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3743 Now, they say the Stealth is made by Marineland, not Eheim, and the Deluxe is made by Aquarium Systems; what gives there? Google tells me that E-heim actually makes the Jager heater. On the web I can't find comparative reviews and find the Deluxe generally cheaper than the Stealth. Which one performs better and is less likely to break down? Also, Haeger and Marineland both make heaters that look similar and have similar names but cost more money; are either of them actually the same thing as the Eheim Stealth? When I googled Eheim Stealth heaters I got http://www.saltycritter.com/heating.htm, which discusses aquarium systems Visitherm stealth heaters, which look identical to Eheim/ Marineland's stealth heaters. I've grown accustomed to aquarium supply companies playing musical brands. Waht brands and what models are really what? I thought I had two Eheim visitherm stealth heaters in my aqurium. They appear to be identical, but one has no identifying info at all and the other has Stealth on it and says it's made by Aquarium Systems. And it isn't the Deluxe model which looks very different. Someone posted on a forum that both heaters are amde by Marineland. Are Marineland and Aquarium Systems by any chance the same company? That would not be unusual. Yours, Dora Smith Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:58 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Surely you've heard of Rena? Owned by API http://www.aquariumpharm.com? They make Rena Filstar Canister filters, Rena Air Pumps, Rena Cal heaters, etc., etc., etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32784	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

I recall your problem of operating the air conditioner last Winter(?) with the tank in front of it. And you need to run the air conditioner because the room temperature of 68 o is not cool enough for you? I gather you can't just turn the room thermostat down; obviously the room heat is on when the outside temperature is 55 o, or it wouldn't be 68 o in the room. Have you thought of adding a background to the outside of the back of the tank, backed with sheet styrofoam? This may prevent some heat loss as it should slow heat exit from the back of the tank. I only answer what I have knowledge of, I do not speculate. I addressed that part of your post that I hoped might give you some benefit. Not being thoroughly familiar with each model of Visi-Therm heater, I cannot give you an answer to your question, but can only add that the Stealth heaters are quality heaters. I can't comment on the deluxe model. Likewise, I have no idea if Visi-Therm Stealth heaters are the same as Marineland Stealth heaters, so chose not to comment on it. If I knew which one was better, I would have already told you so, but if you want me to guess I'll arbitrarily say Marineland, without any basis for it, if that will make you happy. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Well, actually my room temperature is dropping as low as 68 degrees, but a > bigger problem seems to be the tank is in front of the open window, and the > window air conditioner when I run it (when the outside temperature is above > 55) is directly behind and blowing on the tank. The logistics of the room > leave no way around that. > > Tank temperature is droppign to the low 70's and the tetras lose their > appetites. Even the danios get less enthusiastic. Those fish have no need > for food if they're cold. > > Anyway, you're not answering my question. I need to know which heater to > get. Which is teh better heater? > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 6:08 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > > I don't know what your room temperature is dropping to, neither do I > know at what temperature you prefer to keep your tank at. Your two > 50 watt heaters are providing 5 Watts per gallon (for this 20 gallon > tank). Five (5) Watts per gallon is enough to raise your tank's > temperature to 12.5 o above the room temperature, i.e., if your room > is at 66 degrees, these two heaters should be able to maintain your > tank at 78.5 o. At a room temperature of 68 o, you should have no > problem at all. > > As it appears your two 50 Watt heaters are Visi-Therms, try > recalibrating (resetting) the thermostats in your heaters. I've read > reports on here some years ago (before the name change), when this > group was called "Freshwater Tropical Aquarium Fish," that after long > periods of inactivity (Summer) these heaters sometimes need resetting > to restore their accuracy. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know that > > on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 > watt ones > > in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't quite > keeping > > the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that teh > > deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth heater? > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > identical, > > only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32785	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Now we're on Eheim (Jager) heaters??? What happened to Visi-Therm heaters? Sorry, don't know if Jager and Marineland are really the same heaters either, but I guess we're covering all bases here. The Rena heaters look similar too, but again, I have no idea if they're the same as Marineland. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same > brand. I googled and not getting clarity. > > Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim > deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is > cheaper. > > I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the > features. Eheim is atleast reliable. > > Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just > more expensive. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it > used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make > heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. > > Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why > I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great > deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith.com, PetsMart.com, > BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, > I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was > 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the > 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's > temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 > Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to > 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be > adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a > tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient > temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than > adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they > just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). > > Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm > and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray > > ---In AquaticLifeGroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and > formulas > > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per > gallon of > > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, > then you > > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will > usually only > > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most > cases > > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the > needed > > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if > one of the > > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be > able to > > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to > compensate. If you > > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could > mean the > > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith.com which > > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale > (click the > > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal > (from API) > > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical > mount. > > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. > The > > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on > the dial > > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. > It says it > > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know > that it > > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few > degrees > > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price > and only > > $10.00 each. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 > gallon > > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska > where it's > > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater > set usually > > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems > to set > > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it > would work > > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as > well. > > I use one of these heaters: > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your > set up :) > > > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know > > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have > two 50 > > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they > aren't > > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that > > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth > > > heater? > > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32786	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

I think I've now got it straight. Eheim makes Jager, or other way around. Marineland sells Visitherm heaters that are made by Aquarium Systems, and Aquarium Systems also sells the same heaters without the Marineland brand. Apparently the stealth heaters are better quality than the deluxe. For one thing they have actual degrees marked on the thermostat knob. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Now we're on Eheim (Jager) heaters??? What happened to Visi-Therm heaters? Sorry, don't know if Jager and Marineland are really the same heaters either, but I guess we're covering all bases here. The Rena heaters look similar too, but again, I have no idea if they're the same as Marineland. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same > brand. I googled and not getting clarity. > > Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim > deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is > cheaper. > > I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the > features. Eheim is atleast reliable. > > Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just > more expensive. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it > used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make > heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. > > Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why > I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great > deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith.com, PetsMart.com, > BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, > I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was > 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the > 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's > temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 > Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to > 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be > adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a > tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient > temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than > adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they > just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). > > Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm > and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray > > ---In AquaticLifeGroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and > formulas > > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per > gallon of > > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, > then you > > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will > usually only > > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most > cases > > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the > needed > > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if > one of the > > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be > able to > > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to > compensate. If you > > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could > mean the > > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith.com which > > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale > (click the > > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal > (from API) > > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical > mount. > > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. > The > > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on > the dial > > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. > It says it > > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know > that it > > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few > degrees > > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price > and only > > $10.00 each. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 > gallon > > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska > where it's > > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater > set usually > > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems > to set > > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it > would work > > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as > well. > > I use one of these heaters: > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your > set up :) > > > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know > > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have > two 50 > > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they > aren't > > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that > > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth > > > heater? > > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32787	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Top O' the Mornin' John, Looks like the LFS strikes again, with poor advice. Silica sand does look nice, but I believe it may also be used for sand-blasting metal. Could be wrong though, but it still has the drawback of having sharp edges. If your LFS meant to give you good advice, they might have said to include crushed coral. If you didn't go to too much expense with buying this sand, you could consider syphoning it out with the next few PWC's, separating it into a bucket. Then replace it with a better substrate (previously well washed). The crushed coral, while some hobbyists mix it in with their substrate as permanent, is more convenient in controlling its effects when used within a porous bag which can be removed at any time. Yes, Cichlid will be Cichlids. Typical of many in this family to rearrange their landscape (aquascape) to their liking. Keeps them occupied, I guess. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > Morning Ray >   > That good advice I'm Sure and I will start doing that and see if there is any changes. >   > The one thing that I forgot to mention was that I have sand as a substrate. Beautiful White Sand. The only problem is that when I purchased the sand I was advised that one of the nicest sands was silica sand, Well it is except that silica is really ground glass and ground glass scratches my Tank Glass. I would never use it again. >   > The fish I have all redesign my tank on a constant basis. They are constantly building big mounds of sand and I am breaking them up before they turn aerobic (Spelling). >   > I am constantly having to restore my design. It is funny to see the fish pick the sand up in their mouth and constantly building these hills. At times, they have it redesigned within an hour of my restoration. >   > And who said this was DULL Hobby!!!!!! >   > John in Nevada > > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 6:19 AM > > > > > > > Hi again John, With all the discussion on "bi-weekly" vs. "bi- > monthly," and the addition of "semi-monthly" thrown in as the proper > ambiguous term to use (LOL), it seems part of your post was lost in > the laughter. In getting back to your maintenance methods, you might > want to consider changing out 25% (or even 30%) of the water per > week, rather than 50% every two weeks. > > I can see you obviously are having success with your fish, and your > parameters look fine, but coming from the "Big Lake," these fish are > used to a more stable environment not involving large changes. The > Lake's parameters remain fairly constant for the most part, except in > areas where it receives an influx of some fourteen rivers' (North & > South Rukuru, Dwangwa, Likongwe and Ruhutu Rivers, etc., most flowing > in from the west) waters during the rainy season. Even then, this > does little to change the conditions in that Lake, and often as a > result of the topography, sandy littoral zones will be found in the > areas surrounding the mouths of these rivers. The Utaka which > inhabit these areas have the opportunity to travel more widely, > avoiding much of the influence of these inflows. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > HI  Ray!! > >   > > Here is my Inventory and a little about what I run. > >   > > 75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place > overnight about 6 yrs ago. > >   > > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed > Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of > the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum > w/Diatomite Filter. > >   > > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 > >   > > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic > cubes, > >   > > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. > >   > > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > > Common Pleco 1 about 8" > >   > > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no > problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! > Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. > >   > > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry > climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. > >   > > John in Nevada > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know > what > > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the > details > > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said > here > > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from > the > > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive > if > > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to > participate. > > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by > your > > description. > > > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > > >   > > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > > two have been posting. > > >   > > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish > hide > > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they > recognize > > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > >   > > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > >   > > > John in Nevada > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time > convincing > > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months > ago > > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always > draws > > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such > a > > wealth of information! > > > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). > Chuck > > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > > (got > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > > Ad > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in > Malawi > > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom > fish > > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the > original > > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > > As > > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > > dwell > > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > > but > > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't > hide > > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > > to > > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > > (got > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > > Ad > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > of > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > because > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > and > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are > referring > > > to, > > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > > just > > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > > varied > > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > > like > > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > > are > > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are > quite > > > at > > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african > Cichlids > > > are > > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > of > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > because > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > and > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > > attempt > > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring > the > > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of > view. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure > how > > > > it'll > > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > > hide > > > > or is > > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish > produce > > > > eggs or > > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > > good > > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > > produce > > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > > survive, > > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, > fake > > > tree > > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a > smaller > > > > shelter > > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > > that > > > > over. > > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32788	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

No, Raymond, we have central heating and central air conditioning here. One thermostat for the house. My housemate who has teh master bedrrom by the actual unit has thyroid trouble, and I'm going through menopause. And she owns the house. ;) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:07 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? I recall your problem of operating the air conditioner last Winter(?) with the tank in front of it. And you need to run the air conditioner because the room temperature of 68 o is not cool enough for you? I gather you can't just turn the room thermostat down; obviously the room heat is on when the outside temperature is 55 o, or it wouldn't be 68 o in the room. Have you thought of adding a background to the outside of the back of the tank, backed with sheet styrofoam? This may prevent some heat loss as it should slow heat exit from the back of the tank. I only answer what I have knowledge of, I do not speculate. I addressed that part of your post that I hoped might give you some benefit. Not being thoroughly familiar with each model of Visi-Therm heater, I cannot give you an answer to your question, but can only add that the Stealth heaters are quality heaters. I can't comment on the deluxe model. Likewise, I have no idea if Visi-Therm Stealth heaters are the same as Marineland Stealth heaters, so chose not to comment on it. If I knew which one was better, I would have already told you so, but if you want me to guess I'll arbitrarily say Marineland, without any basis for it, if that will make you happy. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Well, actually my room temperature is dropping as low as 68 degrees, but a > bigger problem seems to be the tank is in front of the open window, and the > window air conditioner when I run it (when the outside temperature is above > 55) is directly behind and blowing on the tank. The logistics of the room > leave no way around that. > > Tank temperature is droppign to the low 70's and the tetras lose their > appetites. Even the danios get less enthusiastic. Those fish have no need > for food if they're cold. > > Anyway, you're not answering my question. I need to know which heater to > get. Which is teh better heater? > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 6:08 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > > I don't know what your room temperature is dropping to, neither do I > know at what temperature you prefer to keep your tank at. Your two > 50 watt heaters are providing 5 Watts per gallon (for this 20 gallon > tank). Five (5) Watts per gallon is enough to raise your tank's > temperature to 12.5 o above the room temperature, i.e., if your room > is at 66 degrees, these two heaters should be able to maintain your > tank at 78.5 o. At a room temperature of 68 o, you should have no > problem at all. > > As it appears your two 50 Watt heaters are Visi-Therms, try > recalibrating (resetting) the thermostats in your heaters. I've read > reports on here some years ago (before the name change), when this > group was called "Freshwater Tropical Aquarium Fish," that after long > periods of inactivity (Summer) these heaters sometimes need resetting > to restore their accuracy. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know that > > on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 > watt ones > > in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't quite > keeping > > the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that teh > > deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth heater? > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > identical, > > only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32789	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Acrylic Tanks and Yahoo Mail

While acrylic is a better insulator than glass, I don't think you could count on it in a power failure. I just posted about the Rena Cal (from API) heaters on clearance sale at DrsFosterSmith.com for only $10.00 for the 100W model. I just bought two of them and didn't even need them right now since they were such a great price. Just go to http://www.drsfostersmith.com and click on the Fish tab, then the Clearance link on the left and you'll find them. They won't be around for long though. My blog article on how me and my four tanks (at the time) survived Hurricane Katrina has links on the bottom to how to survive winter power outages. I use email for almost all aspects of the group so I'm not sure what you mean by the "My New Friends" link on the website. I'll have to look around for it. Of is the "my new friends" just in reference to the group in general? If you are posting a new message or reply from the website, but you mention Yahoo Mail so are you posting using email or from the group website? It looks like email from the header on this message. I know even less about Yahoo Mail except I sure get a lot of spam in my inbox on the only yahoo mail account I occasionally use... which is why I don't rely on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:11 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Acrylic Tanks and Yahoo Mail Good Morning Everyone! I'd like to raise a question that may be coming to bear on my purchasing a new tank, glass or acrylic and the money! Since there has been some talk lately about tank heaters, I had heard some time ago that as far as use of electricity goes, this is where an acrylic tank has it over glass, they will hold a temperature better and longer (in the event of a power failure). Is this true? Economics are involved here and certainly thermodynamics. Next question? On the heaters themselves, which one? I have seen some at 150 watts with micro-chips that run almost a $100. Can someone advise on a good, reliable heater at this wattage that will not give cause for another mortgage. Last question? Many times in this group I respond to "my new friends" here through a posted message. When I click reply in Yahoo mail and get to the respond window, I cannot delete or shorten any part of that message except for the title line. Am I doing something wrong or is this the way the moderators have this groups account set up? How do I change this? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081110-0, 11/10/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 10:47:53 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32790	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

I'm beginning to suspect that may be a possibility, of heaters not being made as they had been (but can't offer anything conclusive there). It just may be that the thicknesses of element wire and materials (metals) they're made of may be different lately, resulting in their needing higher wattages to produce the same amount of heat. Only a guess though, unless the 5 Watt per gallon suggestion is now valid, lending credence to this. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it > used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make > heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. > > Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why > I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great > deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith.com, PetsMart.com, > BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, > I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was > 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the > 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's > temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 > Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to > 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be > adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a > tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient > temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than > adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they > just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). > > Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm > and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray > > ---In AquaticLifeGroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and > formulas > > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per > gallon of > > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, > then you > > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will > usually only > > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most > cases > > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the > needed > > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if > one of the > > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be > able to > > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to > compensate. If you > > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could > mean the > > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith.com which > > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale > (click the > > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal > (from API) > > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical > mount. > > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. > The > > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on > the dial > > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. > It says it > > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know > that it > > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few > degrees > > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price > and only > > $10.00 each. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 > gallon > > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska > where it's > > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater > set usually > > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems > to set > > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it > would work > > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as > well. > > I use one of these heaters: > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your > set up :) > > > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know > > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have > two 50 > > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they > aren't > > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that > > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth > > > heater? > > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Maybe you should ask DrsFosterSmith.. since it's there info you are questioning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? OK, the plot thickens. Here's the post grown somewhat jumbled I'm posting on the online forums. No, Lenny, I've never heard of a Rena and don't want one, unless, of course, that's simply another clone of teh same heater. I understand that teh Eheim Visitherm Stealth heater has the best rating for holding up and not failing as well as for value for price. Drs Foster And Smith are selling an Eheim Visitherm Deluxe heater as well for exactly the same price and claim it is their best heater. See http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3743 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3743> Now, they say the Stealth is made by Marineland, not Eheim, and the Deluxe is made by Aquarium Systems; what gives there? Google tells me that E-heim actually makes the Jager heater. On the web I can't find comparative reviews and find the Deluxe generally cheaper than the Stealth. Which one performs better and is less likely to break down? Also, Haeger and Marineland both make heaters that look similar and have similar names but cost more money; are either of them actually the same thing as the Eheim Stealth? When I googled Eheim Stealth heaters I got http://www.saltycritter.com/heating.htm, <http://www.saltycritter.com/heating.htm,> which discusses aquarium systems Visitherm stealth heaters, which look identical to Eheim/ Marineland's stealth heaters. I've grown accustomed to aquarium supply companies playing musical brands. Waht brands and what models are really what? I thought I had two Eheim visitherm stealth heaters in my aqurium. They appear to be identical, but one has no identifying info at all and the other has Stealth on it and says it's made by Aquarium Systems. And it isn't the Deluxe model which looks very different. Someone posted on a forum that both heaters are amde by Marineland. Are Marineland and Aquarium Systems by any chance the same company? That would not be unusual. Yours, Dora Smith Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:58 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Surely you've heard of Rena? Owned by API http://www.aquariumpharm.com? <http://www.aquariumpharm.com?> They make Rena Filstar Canister filters, Rena Air Pumps, Rena Cal heaters, etc., etc., etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 9:46:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081110-0, 11/10/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 10:49:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32792	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Hi   I have 2 300 Watt VisiTherm Heaters and have had them for 5 yrs now and they work great.   VisiTherm is a brand name and you can read the settings in the glass part of the heaters.   I believe that Marine Land bought out Aquarium Systems a number of years ago., but I am not 100% sure.   But a heater is a Heater and the way things are manufactured these days, it would surprise me to find out that they are all made by one company in China.   Why is that you can settle on a product only to find that the next time you buy it it is different. This is because buyers go over to China or Korea or elsewhere and make a deal to buy a lo of a product. The next time they may purchase a different lot.   That being said, I had a problem with a 50 watt Visitherm heater and they sent me a new one that worked fine. That is Customer Service and that is important.   John in Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:24 AM I think I've now got it straight. Eheim makes Jager, or other way around. Marineland sells Visitherm heaters that are made by Aquarium Systems, and Aquarium Systems also sells the same heaters without the Marineland brand. Apparently the stealth heaters are better quality than the deluxe. For one thing they have actual degrees marked on the thermostat knob. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Now we're on Eheim (Jager) heaters??? What happened to Visi-Therm heaters? Sorry, don't know if Jager and Marineland are really the same heaters either, but I guess we're covering all bases here. The Rena heaters look similar too, but again, I have no idea if they're the same as Marineland. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same > brand. I googled and not getting clarity. > > Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim > deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is > cheaper. > > I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the > features. Eheim is atleast reliable. > > Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just > more expensive. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it > used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make > heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. > > Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why > I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great > deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith. com, PetsMart.com, > BigAlsOnline. com, MarineDepot. com, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, > I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was > 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the > 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's > temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 > Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to > 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be > adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a > tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient > temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than > adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they > just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). > > Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm > and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray > > ---In AquaticLifeGroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and > formulas > > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per > gallon of > > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, > then you > > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will > usually only > > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most > cases > > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the > needed > > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if > one of the > > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be > able to > > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to > compensate. If you > > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could > mean the > > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith. com which > > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale > (click the > > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal > (from API) > > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical > mount. > > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. > The > > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on > the dial > > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. > It says it > > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know > that it > > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few > degrees > > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price > and only > > $10.00 each. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 > gallon > > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska > where it's > > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater > set usually > > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems > to set > > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it > would work > > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as > well. > > I use one of these heaters: > > http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your > set up :) > > > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know > > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have > two 50 > > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they > aren't > > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that > > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth > > > heater? > > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com > <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32793	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlid

Ray   You are right, it is used for sand blasting metal.   It was basically inexpensive, but I do love the look, It looks like the white sands of Waikiki.   Yes, I thought about changing it, but it has been there for six years now and I have learned to be careful and I will live with it. It does not seem to bother the fish, I would have thought it would cut there mouth, but apparently not.   I can't blame that on a LFS. That advice came from the Cichlid Forum at the time. It seemed to be a sand of choice a few years ago. I have checked there lately.   John in Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:33 AM Top O' the Mornin' John, Looks like the LFS strikes again, with poor advice. Silica sand does look nice, but I believe it may also be used for sand-blasting metal. Could be wrong though, but it still has the drawback of having sharp edges. If your LFS meant to give you good advice, they might have said to include crushed coral. If you didn't go to too much expense with buying this sand, you could consider syphoning it out with the next few PWC's, separating it into a bucket. Then replace it with a better substrate (previously well washed). The crushed coral, while some hobbyists mix it in with their substrate as permanent, is more convenient in controlling its effects when used within a porous bag which can be removed at any time. Yes, Cichlid will be Cichlids. Typical of many in this family to rearrange their landscape (aquascape) to their liking. Keeps them occupied, I guess. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@.. .> wrote: > > Morning Ray >   > That good advice I'm Sure and I will start doing that and see if there is any changes. >   > The one thing that I forgot to mention was that I have sand as a substrate. Beautiful White Sand. The only problem is that when I purchased the sand I was advised that one of the nicest sands was silica sand, Well it is except that silica is really ground glass and ground glass scratches my Tank Glass. I would never use it again. >   > The fish I have all redesign my tank on a constant basis. They are constantly building big mounds of sand and I am breaking them up before they turn aerobic (Spelling). >   > I am constantly having to restore my design. It is funny to see the fish pick the sand up in their mouth and constantly building these hills. At times, they have it redesigned within an hour of my restoration. >   > And who said this was DULL Hobby!!!!!! >   > John in Nevada > > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 6:19 AM > > > > > > > Hi again John, With all the discussion on "bi-weekly" vs. "bi- > monthly," and the addition of "semi-monthly" thrown in as the proper > ambiguous term to use (LOL), it seems part of your post was lost in > the laughter. In getting back to your maintenance methods, you might > want to consider changing out 25% (or even 30%) of the water per > week, rather than 50% every two weeks. > > I can see you obviously are having success with your fish, and your > parameters look fine, but coming from the "Big Lake," these fish are > used to a more stable environment not involving large changes. The > Lake's parameters remain fairly constant for the most part, except in > areas where it receives an influx of some fourteen rivers' (North & > South Rukuru, Dwangwa, Likongwe and Ruhutu Rivers, etc., most flowing > in from the west) waters during the rainy season. Even then, this > does little to change the conditions in that Lake, and often as a > result of the topography, sandy littoral zones will be found in the > areas surrounding the mouths of these rivers. The Utaka which > inhabit these areas have the opportunity to travel more widely, > avoiding much of the influence of these inflows. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> wrote: > > > > HI  Ray!! > >   > > Here is my Inventory and a little about what I run. > >   > > 75 Gallon Tank  -  All fish were sent to me from That Fish Place > overnight about 6 yrs ago. > >   > > I run 2 - Aquaclear 110 HOB's and 1 HOT Magnum. The Fish are fed > Flake food w/Eheim Auto feeder 3 times Daily. I change about 50% of > the water bi-weekly and I alternate bi-weekly running the Magnum > w/Diatomite Filter. > >   > > My numbers are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-30, ph 7.8, Temp 80 > >   > > I do not use any Carbon, I use the sponges and bags of ceranic > cubes, > >   > > Oh Yes I add Prime when I add Water. > >   > > Iodotropheus Sprengerae (Rusty) 3 - Started with 3 > > Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Yellow Lab) 3 - Started with 5 > > Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos ( Maingano) 13 - Started with 6 > > Pseudotropheus Socolofi ( Blue ) 5- Started with 6 > > Common Pleco 1 about 8" > >   > > Actually everything in my tank is going good and I have no > problems. The fish I lost Jumped or were chased out of the tank. ! > Socolofi Died, about 2 years ago. > >   > > Only problem I have is the water that evaporates due to the dry > climate. About 1/2 gallon per day. > >   > > John in Nevada > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, Many thanks for your kind words (although I don't know > what > > I've said in particular, if anything, makes you say this). Perhaps > > you're just making a blanket statement on the subject of this > > thread. There are other Mods here who know at least as much. > > Depending on the depth any one of us needs to go to with the > details > > of any one topic, some of this just spills out in the course of > > trying to be complete and these details will vary as needed. > > > > Noting the behavioral comments of your 75 gallons' Cichlids, its > > typical for many fish (including Cichlids) to look for food from > > their owners, recognizing them in short order. You haven't said > here > > what kind(s) of Cichlids you have (unless I missed it previously). > > Those Rift Lake Cichlids preferring a rocky environment in nature > > prefer a similar environment in the aquarium. While some of this > > behavior, especially on the part of the males, is territorial the > > females use the rocks as their habitat having evolved in a similar > > setting and at this same time it gives them cover and relief from > the > > otherwise constant advances of the males which can get aggressive > if > > the females are not ready or not momentarily willing to > participate. > > I mention this as it appears you may have some of these fish, by > your > > description. > > > > If there's any further info you'd like to get into concerning your > > fish, feel free to ask. Any one of us will be glad to fill you in. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@ .> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray & Mike > > >   > > > I have ben enjoying this thread. Have been taking all in that you > > two have been posting. > > >   > > > Just as a side note there are times you can look at my 75 Gallon > > tank and its 21Cichlids and you couln't find a fish. All my fish > hide > > in the rocks a good part of the time. They come out if they > recognize > > me, as they think I may have a treat for them. > > >   > > > Ray, your knowledge is awesome. > > >   > > > John in Nevada > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > wrote: > > > > > > From: Deenerz@ <Deenerz@ > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > I do belong to the ACA, unfortunately I have a hard time > convincing > > them of my new address, but I can probably go and get the > > BuntBarsche from my old place still. > > > > > > We had Ad Konings come out and do a talk for us a couple months > ago > > at the PCCA (Pacific Coast Cichlid Association) . We are very > > fortunate to get him out about once a year to come talk. Always > draws > > a BIG crowd no matter what his talk is on. Really nice guy and such > a > > wealth of information! > > > > > > One of our local fish Gurus, Chuck Rambo, just filled in for the > > other club I belong to, SVAS (Silicon alley Aquarium Society). > Chuck > > did a travelogue talk on his collecting trip to Lake Malawi and had > > tons of pics of those GIANT rocks you mentioned. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > > (got > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > > Ad > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:13 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > Mike, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, there are open water fish > > > (such as Champsochromis, or even the smaller Cyprichromis in > Malawi > > > and Boulengerochromis in of Malawi. I thought I'd stay with rock- > > > dwelling fish in my postTanganyika) , as well as sandy bottom > fish > > > like the various Utakas , trying to keep in line with the > original > > > poster's (Amber's) remarks on hiding places (rocks, caves, etc.). > > As > > > you may know, though -- these rocks over which groups of Mbuna > > dwell > > > are not the 2 or 3 pound rubble as we might use in our aquariums, > > but > > > hugh 5 to 10 foot boulders with crevaces. They really couldn't > hide > > > if they wanted to, but stay to the rocks (boulders) as their home > > to > > > feed on their surfaces. > > > > > > BTW, if you belong to the ACA, the latest Bulletin just came out > > (got > > > mine Monday). There are some outstanding Aulonocara pics in it by > > Ad > > > Konings. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Excellent information Ray. > > > > > > > > There are also open water species of cichlids in the Rift Lakes. > > > > > > > > But you probably already knew that :) > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > of > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > because > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > and > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 7:32 pm > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (1) dither fish -- fate of any > > > offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' hiding place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you've read, or what Cichlids you are > referring > > > to, > > > > but a blanket statement of "most cichlids like hiding places" > > just > > > > cannot be applied to this group. Cichlids needs are as widely > > > varied > > > > as this Genus is distributed; and they are distributed over 3 > > > > continents with many different habitats as their environment. > > > > > > > > There are certain dwarf South American Cichlids preferring cave- > > > like > > > > habitats as their environment and spawning areas, just as there > > are > > > > some Central American Cichlids that might use caves and/or deep > > > > recesses in the bank of streams to spawn but these fish are > quite > > > at > > > > home with needing "hiding places." Certain West african > Cichlids > > > are > > > > similar in these needs,,preferring caves to spawn in. > > > > > > > > Many rock-dwelling Rift Lake Cichlids inhabit the rocky areas > of > > > > their lakes, but not because they need the rocks to hide, but > > > because > > > > this is their habitat in which they live, feed (in the wild) > and > > > > breed and use as territories (in the aquarium) in a communal > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > Most larger (and many medium) New World Cichlids prefer an > > > > environment free of hiding places, to discourage any would-be > > > > predators from lurking which might attack their fry. For this > > > > reason, they will uproot any plants in your tank and may even > > > attempt > > > > to reposition any rocks and driftwood -- often re-configuring > the > > > > substrate to fit their territorial needs and clear field of > view. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have read that most cichlids like hiding places, not sure > how > > > > it'll > > > > > effect yours specifically though. > > > > > Do you just want to remove it so they don't have anywhere to > > hide > > > > or is > > > > > it a decoration you want to replace with something else? > > > > > Also I would think that it'd be fine if the dither fish > produce > > > > eggs or > > > > > fry and they get eaten, afterall it will give the cichlids a > > good > > > > snack ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Shirley Reichard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What if I end up with male and female dither fish and they > > > produce > > > > > > eggs? Won't the cichlids eat those? And if some eggs should > > > > survive, > > > > > > wouldn't the fry get eaten? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, would it be a bad idea to simply remove the large, > fake > > > tree > > > > > > trunk in which the cichlids are hiding? I had made a > smaller > > > > shelter > > > > > > using driftwood and fake tank decor, but the plec has taken > > > that > > > > over. > > > > > > Do the cichlids absolutely have to have a hidey-hole? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Shirley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32794	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Surgery complete!

me too. am starting to do pwc once a day for a while so far the fish are real active and can be quite the beggars lol -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 9:15 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! Oh yeah.. I remember now. In your case, you should be doing at least daily 25% PWC's.... maybe even more often since your ammonia/nitrite levels will be climbing considerably since you are stuck with "Cycling With Fish". Go to my blog and then go to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top, there are two free online tutorials that I suggest you read through and learn those basics of fish keeping. While on that page, also click on the links to Cycling With Fish so you'll know what you will have to do to keep your goldfish from suffering too much during the cycling process. When we refer to cycling, the cycle, etc., in aquaria, it refers to the Nitrogen Cycle, so pay attention to that section in the tutorials. This is one of the most important things to learn and understand. You should get a API Master Test Kit and the separate GH/KH combo test kit so you can start testing your water... right now, for ammonia and nitrites so you can do PWC's as needed to keep them at safe levels. If you had known about this first, you could have taken some of the gravel or the filter from their dirty tank and that would have gone a long way in helping you get your nitrogen cycle established in your new tank. Since the previous owner wants to keep the tank and fish, I hope your efforts don't result in them dying as that could post problems. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! It is a 10 gallon tank with 3 gold fish comet style i believe am looking for a larger tank has no decorations yet in it. I use filtered water in it as the well water has alot of iron in it. not sure what you mean by cycling as iam fairly new to aquariums.Iam not sure of the age. as I rescued them from a tank(previous owner of the trailer we are buying wants to keep tank and fish) but at present moment not feeding them. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:43 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! Weekly 25% PWC's is the general rule that should be followed, IMO, but if your tank is heavily stocked or undersized, it may need PWC's even more often. If a tank is lightly stocked, then less frequent PWC's may be an option. A "new" tank could need it much more often if cycling with fish. Tell us more about your tank and I could give better info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! How often does one need to do pwc's on a new tank? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! Regular 25%+ PWC's is the best thing, instead of carbon. They will remove the pollution and replace the trace elements that the fish/plants need. Carbon can actually remove some of the good things in the water that the fish/plants need also. A lot of the concepts, like carbon, were started many, many years ago but back then, folks were also doing complete breakdown's of their tanks on a regular basis and doing 100% PWC's with "aged water" as that is what was thought to be the best thing. The fish back then were a lot hardier than many of the inbred's that we have today so the fish did well with these procedures that we might consider crazy today. The filter companies have a vested interest in perpetuating many of these "old" concepts as it helps them sell products that aren't really needed most of the time.... same with the changing of the filter cartridges which are actually a bad thing to do.. especially on a new un-planted tank. A mature, planted tank has a little more forgiveness with the nitrogen cycle compared to a recently set up un-planted tank. Most of the other chemicals they sell at pet stores are also pushed on people when they really aren't needed. Now, all this said, in a tank that is heavily stocked or overstocked, using carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media is a good thing to help remove some of the DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) that might build up between PWC's (I use Purigen in my goldfish tank and it's not supposed to remove the good things while only removing the bad things). Once again, this is only for heavily stocked tanks that I would advise the need for chemical filtration... or if someone wants to be lazy and not do their proper tank maintenance (BOOOO!!!! LOL)... but even with the Purigen running in both of my filters, I still do the 25% PWC to replace the trace elements and dilute the pollution in the tank. I've always run my other tanks, in the past, without carbon unless I am using it as a temporary thing to remove a medical treatment or possible contamination. Even though I only have two fancy goldfish in my 65G tank, I still consider it to be heavily stocked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! So what is recommended instead of carbon? I'm still using carbon but have heard that you can run your tank without carbon as well. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > And pretty soon, you'll decide to quit running carbon and save that > money too. LOL Then you could get you a new pair of shoes.... or a > tricked out name tag (Hopefully you've seen the Progressive Insurance > commercials so you know what I'm talking about. It was just on while I > was typing this. LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Surgery complete! > > Tsk, Tsk...what do you take me for? A newbie?? (ha!) Of course I > rinsed out the carbon in used tank water ..just like you've posted a > gizillion times. > Feels good to know I don't have to go out and spend a fortune on those > filter cartridges. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Dang.. when did Alina Reddy join the group? LOL > > > > Glad to see it all went well and I hereby award you with an Honorary > > Doctorate Of Filterology. > > > > You know.. something I'm thinking about now. Normally after adding > new > > carbon, you should rinse the carbon first to remove any dust. Did > you just > > refill the cartridge and maybe rinse it in some removed tank > water? I hope > > so.. although I'm not sure a little bit of carbon dust would be all > that > > harmful. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Surgery complete! > > > > > > I am woman, hear me roar! > > > > Managed to refill my filter cartridge with new carbon (oh bliss!) > and once I > > got the filter open, that silly X frame inside was not dividing the > whole > > cartridge, I guess it's some sort of internal support. But I did it, > > (without a single girly-girl moment, Lenny :-) ). > > > > And nothing has died yet so it must have worked. > > > > Thanks for all the info and help, guys > > > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 11:43:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 1:19:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:15:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32795	From: bill1433	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Acrylic Tanks and Yahoo Mail

Len, other cooments to follow---------------------gmail?   Bill --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Acrylic Tanks and Yahoo Mail To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 11:47 AM While acrylic is a better insulator than glass, I don't think you could count on it in a power failure. I just posted about the Rena Cal (from API) heaters on clearance sale at DrsFosterSmith. com for only $10.00 for the 100W model. I just bought two of them and didn't even need them right now since they were such a great price.. Just go to http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com and click on the Fish tab, then the Clearance link on the left and you'll find them. They won't be around for long though. My blog article on how me and my four tanks (at the time) survived Hurricane Katrina has links on the bottom to how to survive winter power outages. I use email for almost all aspects of the group so I'm not sure what you mean by the "My New Friends" link on the website. I'll have to look around for it. Of is the "my new friends" just in reference to the group in general? If you are posting a new message or reply from the website, but you mention Yahoo Mail so are you posting using email or from the group website? It looks like email from the header on this message. I know even less about Yahoo Mail except I sure get a lot of spam in my inbox on the only yahoo mail account I occasionally use... which is why I don't rely on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:11 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Acrylic Tanks and Yahoo Mail Good Morning Everyone! I'd like to raise a question that may be coming to bear on my purchasing a new tank, glass or acrylic and the money! Since there has been some talk lately about tank heaters, I had heard some time ago that as far as use of electricity goes, this is where an acrylic tank has it over glass, they will hold a temperature better and longer (in the event of a power failure). Is this true? Economics are involved here and certainly thermodynamics. Next question? On the heaters themselves, which one? I have seen some at 150 watts with micro-chips that run almost a $100. Can someone advise on a good, reliable heater at this wattage that will not give cause for another mortgage. Last question? Many times in this group I respond to "my new friends" here through a posted message. When I click reply in Yahoo mail and get to the respond window, I cannot delete or shorten any part of that message except for the title line. Am I doing something wrong or is this the way the moderators have this groups account set up? How do I change this? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081110-0, 11/10/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 10:47:53 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: SeaChem pH Alert Compared To Mardel Live pH monitor

See my latest blog article where I tested these products side by side... and the winner by overwhelming margins is.... (see the blog.. lol) If you're in a country that can't view blogs, reply here and I'll post a copy. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081110-0, 11/10/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 12:42:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32797	From: jett07002	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Last Of Baseline-----------------Not

Damn \\Steve//!! You just explained to me, without even realizing it, why all the guys I hung with at the aquarium places shouted so damn loud. I always thought they were hard of hearing!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > If you can get your hands on a copy of Innes' Exotic Aquarium Fishes 19th edition revised or earlier, the pronunciation of all scientific names used is given. From this you should be able to interpolate others that you may run across. Then, you can always keep in mind the Paul Loiselle statement, "He who speaks the name the loudest is the most correct." > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not > > Thanks Steve, >   > But aside from learning the scientific names of the fish I'd love to be able to pronounce them properly. > I think you'll agree that as far as the common names go; they almost always change by where your standing at the time!  People in some states don't call the same fish by the same name as other states.  Sometime it's worse than that ------------they don't call them by the same name from one town to another town! >   > when you can, good hearing from you, >   > Bill > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline-----------------Not > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:47 PM > > > > > > > Here is a tome that is an "official" listing of common names for > scientists: _Common and Scientific Names of Fishes from the United > States, Canada, and Mexico_. This edition is put together by John S. > Nelson. There is also another publication, but its title is lost to me > right now. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com[mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not > > LOL... NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, trust a pet store to have the fish > properly > labeled... nor 95% of the other info they might give out. LOL Even > LFS' > have problems some times but pet stores, wally-world pet depts, etc. are > not > the place to look for proper information. > > My suggestion for future purchases. Look at the fish in the tanks > first, > write down the names they have them labeled with. Go home and do a > little > research to verify BEFORE buying. Hopefully you didn't buy a school of > Pacu's or Arowana's... but at least you wouldn't have to worry about > them > pipes leaking in your basement since you'll have to turn it into a fish > tank. LOL > > Here are some other "Red-Eyed Tetra" or "Redeyed Tetra" or "Red Eye > Tetra" > profiles but they all match the Pictures link on the Mongabay profile. > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html > > http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=10674 > > http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ tet-rede. htm > > http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .php > > http://www.elmersaq uarium.com/ 10tetra_redeye. htm > > Now, on a side note, on one of the tanks I adopted/saved back in 2005, > pre-Katrina, I got some Albino Buenos Aires Tetras that had red eyes so > check out the images of them on the net to see if maybe that is what you > have. Here's a decent pic of one of them. > http://www.aquahobb y.com/gallery/ e_buenosm. php > > Note that these fish (and the Red-Eyed Tetra probably get too large... > close > to 3" each) for a 10G tank or smaller tanks since they should be kept in > schools of six, that's about three too many for a 10G tank. > > One of the weird things my Albino Buenos Aires Tetras would do is get in > a > school in the outflow of the filter and swim against the current, kind > of > hovering in place while they were actually swimming quite rapidly... > almost > like one of them new-fangled indoor swimming pools where the water flows > from end to end while the swimmer stays in place. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not > > Len, > > They gots the names wrong! Even the common names! Whatever the fish is > that I have it ain't what they have! Might take a few days here but I'm > going to try too post pictures. Its the only clear way to ID themn > properly. Darn Wally-World! > > Thanks again for the corrected link, > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:15 PM > > You shouldn't have to do much "boogie'n" with Mongabay. If you type in > the > common name of the fish in the search box, it will likely find the > profile > on that fish as one of the top two hits. In fact, I don't even go to > Mongabay first. I just use Google and type the name of the fish and the > extra word, Mongabay, and Google will almost always find the profile on > the > first or second hit. Mongabay uses Google as their site search engine. > > Oops.. I just realized I gave out the wrong link.. although this page is > reachable from the main Fish Mongabay page. Here is the "Search" page > direct > link. > > http://www.mongabay .com/search. htm > > In the middle section "Advanced Search Options", choose Mongabay Fish > and > type in the common name. > > I just did a test search on - red eye tetra - but I didn't get a direct > hit > so this could be a rare instance where Mongabay Fish does not have a > profile > with the common name listed. > > A regular Google on - "red eye tetra" - (in quotes) found this Latin > name. > > Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae > > And a Mongabay search then found this profile as the first hit... > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Moenkhausia_ sanctaefilomenae .html > > Mongabay has them as "red-eyed tetra" which is why "red eye tetra" was > not > coming up. Mongabay also has them listed with a more common name as > "Red-eyed Moe". Now you just need to get some "Red-eyed Curly's" and > "Red-eyed Larry's" to go with them. Nyak, Nyak, Nyak! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not > > Hi Lenny, > > As per "your usual", you always give me plenty to think about. > Your link was great but I must boogie back and fourth to get scientific > names to match the common names as I am completely unfamiliar with them. > i.e. Neon Tetras, my all time favorites and the new red eye tetra's. > I once set one whole 20-gallon tank with just some Cory's and all > neon's. > It was quite a site! Of course, the fish were cheaper then. > > Your suggestions on the water parameters are most encouraging in that it > makes more sense to keep what will fall into my parameters with getting > into > 2nd year chemistry to support them. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 2:20 PM > > So.. now you need to decide if you are going to just keep low pH, soft > water > fish and maybe just dose a little KH (Baking Soda) to bring it up a > little > to keep the pH from crashing between PWC's.... or if you are going to > get > into the whole adjusting the chemistry issues constantly, adding > hardeners > and testing often. > > If it was me, I'd just keep the easier fish that prefer your water > parameters and dose with Baking Soda as needed. There are many, many to > choose from. > > After a few PWC's and testing, you'll learn exactly how much Baking Soda > to > dose each week to keep the KH up without raising the pH out of your > fishes > preferred range. > > Start off with one that you are interested in, check out the profile on > http://fish. mongabay. com to see if they prefer your water parameters > and > then look at the SC (Suggested Companions) and then look at the profiles > of > those fish. After a few minutes, you'll have a nice long list of fish to > choose from. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:09 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Last Of Baseline---- --------- ----Not > > Ph 6.0 > No2 .3 > Nh3/4 .25 > GH 2 > Kh 1 > > Gh dropped as did Nh3/4 and the Ph stayed about the same. > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32798	From: jett07002	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Taking fish home from the LFS, or where ever

Hi People: I've been reading various posts advising about taking fish home from the LFS (local fish store) and thought I would give a word of advise to some new-bees. I do not know where in the world the people in some of these fish stores got the idea of blowing in the bag to puff it up. DON'T let them do it. Think about it. They're blowing carbon-dioxide (CO2)into the bag!! It is good to "puff up" the bag, but if the LFS doesn't have oxygen it's better to grab the top of the bag and trap as much air as you can capture before sealing it. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32799	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

I have not had to buy any heaters for many years. My information is pretty much outdated. #1 heater is the old Supreme Heetmaster made by Eugene Danner. #2 is the Ebo Jager heaters. #3 They make other heaters? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same brand. I googled and not getting clarity. Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is cheaper. I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the features. Eheim is atleast reliable. Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just more expensive. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith.com, PetsMart.com, BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray ---In AquaticLifeGroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and formulas > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per gallon of > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, then you > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will usually only > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most cases > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the needed > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if one of the > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be able to > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to compensate. If you > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could mean the > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith.com which > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale (click the > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal (from API) > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical mount. > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. The > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on the dial > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. It says it > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know that it > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few degrees > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price and only > $10.00 each. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 gallon > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska where it's > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater set usually > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems to set > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it would work > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as well. > I use one of these heaters: > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1343/product.web> > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your set up :) > > Amber > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I know > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have two 50 > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they aren't > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims that > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland stealth > > heater? > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32800	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

John, do you have the deluxe or the stealth model? The stealth is all black. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Hi I have 2 300 Watt VisiTherm Heaters and have had them for 5 yrs now and they work great. VisiTherm is a brand name and you can read the settings in the glass part of the heaters. I believe that Marine Land bought out Aquarium Systems a number of years ago., but I am not 100% sure. But a heater is a Heater and the way things are manufactured these days, it would surprise me to find out that they are all made by one company in China. Why is that you can settle on a product only to find that the next time you buy it it is different. This is because buyers go over to China or Korea or elsewhere and make a deal to buy a lo of a product. The next time they may purchase a different lot. That being said, I had a problem with a 50 watt Visitherm heater and they sent me a new one that worked fine. That is Customer Service and that is important. John in Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:24 AM I think I've now got it straight. Eheim makes Jager, or other way around. Marineland sells Visitherm heaters that are made by Aquarium Systems, and Aquarium Systems also sells the same heaters without the Marineland brand. Apparently the stealth heaters are better quality than the deluxe. For one thing they have actual degrees marked on the thermostat knob. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Now we're on Eheim (Jager) heaters??? What happened to Visi-Therm heaters? Sorry, don't know if Jager and Marineland are really the same heaters either, but I guess we're covering all bases here. The Rena heaters look similar too, but again, I have no idea if they're the same as Marineland. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same > brand. I googled and not getting clarity. > > Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim > deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is > cheaper. > > I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the > features. Eheim is atleast reliable. > > Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just > more expensive. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it > used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make > heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. > > Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why > I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great > deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith. com, PetsMart.com, > BigAlsOnline. com, MarineDepot. com, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, > I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was > 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the > 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's > temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 > Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to > 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be > adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a > tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient > temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than > adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they > just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). > > Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm > and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray > > ---In AquaticLifeGroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and > formulas > > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per > gallon of > > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, > then you > > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will > usually only > > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most > cases > > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the > needed > > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if > one of the > > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be > able to > > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to > compensate. If you > > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could > mean the > > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith. com which > > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale > (click the > > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal > (from API) > > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical > mount. > > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. > The > > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on > the dial > > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. > It says it > > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know > that it > > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few > degrees > > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price > and only > > $10.00 each. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 > gallon > > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska > where it's > > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater > set usually > > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems > to set > > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it > would work > > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as > well. > > I use one of these heaters: > > http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your > set up :) > > > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know > > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have > two 50 > > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they > aren't > > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that > > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth > > > heater? > > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com > <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32801	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

I have some of each. I like the stealth better for two reasons: it’s slightly slimmer and I don’t have to turn it off and wait 15 minutes before I drain the tank for PWC. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? John, do you have the deluxe or the stealth model? The stealth is all black. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@sbcglobal. <mailto:dumont53%40sbcglobal.net> net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Hi I have 2 300 Watt VisiTherm Heaters and have had them for 5 yrs now and they work great. VisiTherm is a brand name and you can read the settings in the glass part of the heaters. I believe that Marine Land bought out Aquarium Systems a number of years ago., but I am not 100% sure. But a heater is a Heater and the way things are manufactured these days, it would surprise me to find out that they are all made by one company in China. Why is that you can settle on a product only to find that the next time you buy it it is different. This is because buyers go over to China or Korea or elsewhere and make a deal to buy a lo of a product. The next time they may purchase a different lot. That being said, I had a problem with a 50 watt Visitherm heater and they sent me a new one that worked fine. That is Customer Service and that is important. John in Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:24 AM I think I've now got it straight. Eheim makes Jager, or other way around. Marineland sells Visitherm heaters that are made by Aquarium Systems, and Aquarium Systems also sells the same heaters without the Marineland brand. Apparently the stealth heaters are better quality than the deluxe. For one thing they have actual degrees marked on the thermostat knob. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Now we're on Eheim (Jager) heaters??? What happened to Visi-Therm heaters? Sorry, don't know if Jager and Marineland are really the same heaters either, but I guess we're covering all bases here. The Rena heaters look similar too, but again, I have no idea if they're the same as Marineland. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same > brand. I googled and not getting clarity. > > Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim > deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is > cheaper. > > I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the > features. Eheim is atleast reliable. > > Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just > more expensive. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it > used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make > heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. > > Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why > I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great > deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith. com, PetsMart.com, > BigAlsOnline. com, MarineDepot. com, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, > I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was > 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the > 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's > temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 > Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to > 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be > adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a > tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient > temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than > adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they > just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). > > Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm > and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray > > ---In AquaticLifeGroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and > formulas > > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per > gallon of > > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, > then you > > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will > usually only > > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most > cases > > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the > needed > > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if > one of the > > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be > able to > > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to > compensate. If you > > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could > mean the > > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith. com which > > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale > (click the > > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal > (from API) > > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical > mount. > > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. > The > > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on > the dial > > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. > It says it > > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know > that it > > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few > degrees > > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price > and only > > $10.00 each. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 > gallon > > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska > where it's > > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater > set usually > > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems > to set > > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it > would work > > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as > well. > > I use one of these heaters: > > http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your > set up :) > > > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know > > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have > two 50 > > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they > aren't > > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that > > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth > > > heater? > > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com > <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32802	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

The Deluxe or standard not the black. --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 4:51 PM John, do you have the deluxe or the stealth model? The stealth is all black. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@sbcglobal. net> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Hi I have 2 300 Watt VisiTherm Heaters and have had them for 5 yrs now and they work great. VisiTherm is a brand name and you can read the settings in the glass part of the heaters. I believe that Marine Land bought out Aquarium Systems a number of years ago., but I am not 100% sure. But a heater is a Heater and the way things are manufactured these days, it would surprise me to find out that they are all made by one company in China. Why is that you can settle on a product only to find that the next time you buy it it is different. This is because buyers go over to China or Korea or elsewhere and make a deal to buy a lo of a product. The next time they may purchase a different lot. That being said, I had a problem with a 50 watt Visitherm heater and they sent me a new one that worked fine. That is Customer Service and that is important. John in Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:24 AM I think I've now got it straight. Eheim makes Jager, or other way around. Marineland sells Visitherm heaters that are made by Aquarium Systems, and Aquarium Systems also sells the same heaters without the Marineland brand. Apparently the stealth heaters are better quality than the deluxe. For one thing they have actual degrees marked on the thermostat knob. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Now we're on Eheim (Jager) heaters??? What happened to Visi-Therm heaters? Sorry, don't know if Jager and Marineland are really the same heaters either, but I guess we're covering all bases here. The Rena heaters look similar too, but again, I have no idea if they're the same as Marineland. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same > brand. I googled and not getting clarity. > > Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim > deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is > cheaper. > > I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the > features. Eheim is atleast reliable. > > Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just > more expensive. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it > used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make > heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. > > Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why > I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great > deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith. com, PetsMart.com, > BigAlsOnline. com, MarineDepot. com, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, > I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was > 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the > 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's > temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 > Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to > 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be > adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a > tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient > temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than > adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they > just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). > > Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm > and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray > > ---In AquaticLifeGroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and > formulas > > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per > gallon of > > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, > then you > > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will > usually only > > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most > cases > > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the > needed > > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if > one of the > > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be > able to > > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to > compensate. If you > > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could > mean the > > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith. com which > > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale > (click the > > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal > (from API) > > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical > mount. > > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. > The > > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on > the dial > > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. > It says it > > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know > that it > > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few > degrees > > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price > and only > > $10.00 each. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 > gallon > > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska > where it's > > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater > set usually > > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems > to set > > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it > would work > > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as > well. > > I use one of these heaters: > > http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your > set up :) > > > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know > > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have > two 50 > > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they > aren't > > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that > > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth > > > heater? > > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com > <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32803	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

I lay my heater(s) down in the back behind plants, decorations, etc. so they're in the "stealth" mode all the time... or would that be "Ninja" mode? LOL Maybe Rena Cal needs to come out with the "Ninja" model... that is instructions to lay the heater down in the back behind everything. But even when I had one vertical, with a 25% PWC, the water never got low enough to really affect the heater anyhow since the heater coil is in the lower part of the heater that stayed below the water level. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? I have some of each. I like the stealth better for two reasons: it's slightly slimmer and I don't have to turn it off and wait 15 minutes before I drain the tank for PWC. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? John, do you have the deluxe or the stealth model? The stealth is all black. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@sbcglobal. <mailto:dumont53%40sbcglobal.net> net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Hi I have 2 300 Watt VisiTherm Heaters and have had them for 5 yrs now and they work great. VisiTherm is a brand name and you can read the settings in the glass part of the heaters. I believe that Marine Land bought out Aquarium Systems a number of years ago., but I am not 100% sure. But a heater is a Heater and the way things are manufactured these days, it would surprise me to find out that they are all made by one company in China. Why is that you can settle on a product only to find that the next time you buy it it is different. This is because buyers go over to China or Korea or elsewhere and make a deal to buy a lo of a product. The next time they may purchase a different lot. That being said, I had a problem with a 50 watt Visitherm heater and they sent me a new one that worked fine. That is Customer Service and that is important. John in Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:24 AM I think I've now got it straight. Eheim makes Jager, or other way around. Marineland sells Visitherm heaters that are made by Aquarium Systems, and Aquarium Systems also sells the same heaters without the Marineland brand. Apparently the stealth heaters are better quality than the deluxe. For one thing they have actual degrees marked on the thermostat knob. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Now we're on Eheim (Jager) heaters??? What happened to Visi-Therm heaters? Sorry, don't know if Jager and Marineland are really the same heaters either, but I guess we're covering all bases here. The Rena heaters look similar too, but again, I have no idea if they're the same as Marineland. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same > brand. I googled and not getting clarity. > > Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim > deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is > cheaper. > > I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the > features. Eheim is atleast reliable. > > Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just > more expensive. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it > used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make > heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. > > Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why > I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great > deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith. com, PetsMart.com, > BigAlsOnline. com, MarineDepot. com, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, > I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was > 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the > 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's > temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 > Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to > 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be > adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a > tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient > temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than > adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they > just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). > > Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm > and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray > > ---In AquaticLifeGroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and > formulas > > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per > gallon of > > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, > then you > > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will > usually only > > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most > cases > > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the > needed > > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if > one of the > > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be > able to > > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to > compensate. If you > > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could > mean the > > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith. com which > > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale > (click the > > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal > (from API) > > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical > mount. > > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. > The > > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on > the dial > > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. > It says it > > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know > that it > > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few > degrees > > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price > and only > > $10.00 each. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 > gallon > > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska > where it's > > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater > set usually > > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems > to set > > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it > would work > > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as > well. > > I use one of these heaters: > > http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your > set up :) > > > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know > > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have > two 50 > > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they > aren't > > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that > > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth > > > heater? > > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081110-1, 11/10/2008 Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:34:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32804	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

Hi Donna � I don't know if I have ever had �any damage but I shut Mine off just about the smae time that I start my PWC. � If that is part of the instructions, I guess I had a "Seniorr Moment" when I read it. � I have never even given it a thought as mine are seldom on. but I have pulled them out of the water to make an adjustment with the light lit. Just STUPID I guess. � John In Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 5:25 PM I have some of each. I like the stealth better for two reasons: it�s slightly slimmer and I don�t have to turn it off and wait 15 minutes before I drain the tank for PWC. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? John, do you have the deluxe or the stealth model? The stealth is all black. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@sbcglobal . <mailto:dumont53% 40sbcglobal. net> net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Hi I have 2 300 Watt VisiTherm Heaters and have had them for 5 yrs now and they work great. VisiTherm is a brand name and you can read the settings in the glass part of the heaters. I believe that Marine Land bought out Aquarium Systems a number of years ago., but I am not 100% sure. But a heater is a Heater and the way things are manufactured these days, it would surprise me to find out that they are all made by one company in China. Why is that you can settle on a product only to find that the next time you buy it it is different. This is because buyers go over to China or Korea or elsewhere and make a deal to buy a lo of a product. The next time they may purchase a different lot. That being said, I had a problem with a 50 watt Visitherm heater and they sent me a new one that worked fine. That is Customer Service and that is important. John in Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:24 AM I think I've now got it straight. Eheim makes Jager, or other way around. Marineland sells Visitherm heaters that are made by Aquarium Systems, and Aquarium Systems also sells the same heaters without the Marineland brand. Apparently the stealth heaters are better quality than the deluxe. For one thing they have actual degrees marked on the thermostat knob. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Now we're on Eheim (Jager) heaters??? What happened to Visi-Therm heaters? Sorry, don't know if Jager and Marineland are really the same heaters either, but I guess we're covering all bases here. The Rena heaters look similar too, but again, I have no idea if they're the same as Marineland. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same > brand. I googled and not getting clarity. > > Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim > deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is > cheaper. > > I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the > features. Eheim is atleast reliable. > > Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just > more expensive. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it > used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make > heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. > > Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why > I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great > deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith. com, PetsMart.com, > BigAlsOnline. com, MarineDepot. com, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, > I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was > 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the > 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's > temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 > Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to > 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be > adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a > tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient > temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than > adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they > just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). > > Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm > and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray > > ---In AquaticLifeGroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and > formulas > > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per > gallon of > > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, > then you > > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will > usually only > > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most > cases > > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the > needed > > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if > one of the > > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be > able to > > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to > compensate. If you > > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could > mean the > > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith. com which > > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale > (click the > > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal > (from API) > > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical > mount. > > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. > The > > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on > the dial > > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. > It says it > > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know > that it > > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few > degrees > > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price > and only > > $10.00 each. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 > gallon > > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska > where it's > > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater > set usually > > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems > to set > > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it > would work > > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as > well. > > I use one of these heaters: > > http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your > set up :) > > > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know > > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have > two 50 > > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they > aren't > > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that > > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth > > > heater? > > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com > <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<� ((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32805	From: Chris	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Feeders - Ghost Shrimp

Should Ghost Shrimp be quarantined before introduction to a tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32806	From: Chris	Date: 11/10/2008
Subject: Tetra can go jump in a lake

It seems that according to my local dealer that Tetra has discontinued their old line of whisper power filters. The shop keeper told me that when I was looking for a new lift and guard for a 20 gallon filter I have sitting around. He said they are discontinuing the model,but keeping the biobags for the for those who still need them. I guess Tetra decided that reusable biobags don't make them enough money, so they decided to convert to junk carbon filter cartridges that you cannot empty with out surgery. Boo! In the end there is good news to that. The guy showed me the Aqua Clear hanging filter. Instead of a bag, you stack your sponge, carbon, and biothingies on top of each other. Instead of water just passing through and out, it recirculates the water inside before it is pumped out. Pretty sweet imho! I guess tetra's loss is hagen's gain. All I know is I'll never buy a Tetra product again.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32807	From: Alina	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Medications question

Hi, A friend of mine is moving and gave me two unopened med bottles, and I just want to know more about them, how to use them if I ever need them. Both by API -- PimaFix and Melafix. One looks like treatment for injuries, the other for fungal diseases..both seem to be made of natural extracts. I've looked them up on the websites of Petco and Petsmart. Good reviews, bad reviews? Useless? Also, they come light in detail of use. I'm extra careful because I have snails in my tank (apples) and Corys. Again, I don't need them now, just want to know what they are used for, most often, and if I need to use them with care around invertebrates. Thx Alina PS...and update on my jumping (er, flying?) fish --- The pineapple swordtail that jumped out of my tank -- is living to tell about it. I swear it's like nothing happened. It's a miracle. I wanted to name him Jesus but my husband put the kabosh on that!! :-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32808	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

Chris: I have a Penguin/ Marineland power filter, and I added a bag of danio balls or tetra balls or whatever they're called. Nano balls? Little plastic balls, they come in two sizes not necessarily sold by the same company, that have alot of bits of surface and grow bacteria. I hung a bag of them in each of my filters. You could add a bag of pebbles if you'd rather. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <crjm28@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:09 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake It seems that according to my local dealer that Tetra has discontinued their old line of whisper power filters. The shop keeper told me that when I was looking for a new lift and guard for a 20 gallon filter I have sitting around. He said they are discontinuing the model,but keeping the biobags for the for those who still need them. I guess Tetra decided that reusable biobags don't make them enough money, so they decided to convert to junk carbon filter cartridges that you cannot empty with out surgery. Boo! In the end there is good news to that. The guy showed me the Aqua Clear hanging filter. Instead of a bag, you stack your sponge, carbon, and biothingies on top of each other. Instead of water just passing through and out, it recirculates the water inside before it is pumped out. Pretty sweet imho! I guess tetra's loss is hagen's gain. All I know is I'll never buy a Tetra product again. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32809	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

The problem isn't the biological filtration, but lack of replacement parts and Tetra's new product design. I appreciate your reply though :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32810	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Medications question

I have them and have used them with fair results. If/When I first see an issue, I'll treat with Melafix while further diagnosing the problem... or Pimafix if it looks to be fungus related. Melafix is a mild antibacterial and Pimafix is a mild antifungal. They can also be combined and when combined work as a much stronger antibacterial/antifungal treatment. They have a long shelf life, even after opened as long as the bottles are kept tightly capped so you can keep them until needed. Here's an article by Doc Johnson, written years ago when Melafix first came out. It lists both the negatives and the positives found by Doc Johnson. http://www.koivet.com/koivet/index.php?option=com_content <http://www.koivet.com/koivet/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1 00:melafix-pimafix-koi-healing-adjuvant&catid=36:medicine-treatments&Itemid= 57> &view=article&id=100:melafix-pimafix-koi-healing-adjuvant&catid=36:medicine- treatments&Itemid=57 If the link breaks, go to http://www.koivet.com and in the top right, there is a search box. Type in Melafix and hit enter and it will bring you to the search results showing one article. That's the one. Unfortunately, Koivet.com moved to a new website format and none of the photos on the page are showing up (I've sent an email to the webmaster but also send your own). The photos showed close-up pictures of a Koi that had a body injury and how well it healed up and much faster with MelaFix in the water. You'll also see where he tested Melafix on a variety of species including very sensitive fish and it was safe for all of them. The only types of fish that seem to be bothered by this medication to the point where it's harmful are labyrinth fish like Betta's, Gourami's, etc. This is mainly due to the strong sweet smell that this medication puts out and it causes the surface to foam a little. I think that it bothers the labyrinth fish when they go up to breath and get a whiff of this strong smell lingering on the surface. I've used it 1/2 dosage when treating some Gourami's I adopted back in 2005. API also makes a product called BettaFix which is a 1/10 dosage of MelaFix but it costs just as much as MelaFix so I advise folks who are going to buy BettaFix, to just buy MelaFix and use a partial dose up to 1/2 instead of buying something 1/10th the strength. Now, if someone has ponds or a bunch of tanks and want to use this product, there is a MelaFix pond version sold in 1/2 gallon size that's 10 times stronger than the regular Melafix so that could be used in the fish tanks at 1/10th the dosage to get to the regular Melafix dose... and save lots of money that way.. since it would last ten times longer. On a side note, I just bought some Heartguard Plus chewables from http://www.PetShed.com, an Australian etailer, but I bought the large sized and cut them in half for my half-sized dog. You can't usually do this with American etailers since they require a prescription but Australian etailers do not require the prescription. This made the Heartguard Plus less than $4.00 a month where my local vet was charging $7.00 or a local etailer was getting around $6.00. The big savings came from being able to order the larger chewables for only a little more money than the middle size... and then cutting them in half. BTW.. you could always name the flying swordtail "Hey-Zeus".. or just Zeus but say "Hey" to him when you call his name. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Medications question Hi, A friend of mine is moving and gave me two unopened med bottles, and I just want to know more about them, how to use them if I ever need them. Both by API -- PimaFix and Melafix. One looks like treatment for injuries, the other for fungal diseases..both seem to be made of natural extracts. I've looked them up on the websites of Petco and Petsmart. Good reviews, bad reviews? Useless? Also, they come light in detail of use. I'm extra careful because I have snails in my tank (apples) and Corys. Again, I don't need them now, just want to know what they are used for, most often, and if I need to use them with care around invertebrates. Thx Alina PS...and update on my jumping (er, flying?) fish --- The pineapple swordtail that jumped out of my tank -- is living to tell about it. I swear it's like nothing happened. It's a miracle. I wanted to name him Jesus but my husband put the kabosh on that!! :-) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081110-1, 11/10/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 9:07:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32811	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

You will be able to find replacement parts on other sites such as DrsFosterSmith.com, etc., or on eBay but more than likely, the motor will die before it becomes an issue. Then upgrade to the similarly priced AquaClear's that we talk about ALL THE TIME out here. A much, much, much better HOB than any other brand out there... IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake The problem isn't the biological filtration, but lack of replacement parts and Tetra's new product design. I appreciate your reply though :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081110-1, 11/10/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 9:14:05 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32812	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

I have the emperor filters and love them. I think ti was Lenny that had the page that shows how to perform surgery on the marineland filters that was a very excellent how-to. I went and put some pothos in the reservoir that feed of the waste matter in the water and they are thriving (I also put a couple of desk lamps over the top of them so they have plenty of light). There is also some graven at the bottom for the plants to root in. Eventually I want to join the 2 filters into one larger reservoir and grow a variety of plants in it. I still have to work on the details of this and how I am going to accomplish this. I was thinking of incorporating some other type of filtering. I forget what it is called, but what I was thinking is akin to the column filters that run the water through varying sized gravel and rocks (I saw this at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago (i did a web development contract there a few years back so I go to see a lot of the behind the scenes stuff. When I was there they were building their Wild Reef exhibit...and got to go in the tank before they filled it *grin*). This is on the back of a 55 gal tank. I would think that bamboo or other swampy plants would do well. If I had saltwater, I could do a mangrove swamp with what i am envisioning. Eric Dora Smith wrote: > > Chris: > > I have a Penguin/ Marineland power filter, and I added a bag of danio > balls > or tetra balls or whatever they're called. Nano balls? Little plastic > balls, they come in two sizes not necessarily sold by the same > company, that > have alot of bits of surface and grow bacteria. I hung a bag of them in > each of my filters. > You could add a bag of pebbles if you'd rather. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:09 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake > > It seems that according to my local dealer that Tetra has discontinued > their old line of whisper power filters. The shop keeper told me that > when I was looking for a new lift and guard for a 20 gallon filter I > have sitting around. He said they are discontinuing the model,but > keeping the biobags for the for those who still need them. I guess > Tetra decided that reusable biobags don't make them enough money, so > they decided to convert to junk carbon filter cartridges that you > cannot empty with out surgery. Boo! > > In the end there is good news to that. The guy showed me the Aqua > Clear hanging filter. Instead of a bag, you stack your sponge, carbon, > and biothingies on top of each other. Instead of water just passing > through and out, it recirculates the water inside before it is pumped > out. Pretty sweet imho! I guess tetra's loss is hagen's gain. All I > know is I'll never buy a Tetra product again. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32813	From: Alina	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Medications question

Hey-Zeus! Love it. This is great info, thank you. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I have them and have used them with fair results. If/When I first see an > issue, I'll treat with Melafix while further diagnosing the problem... or > Pimafix if it looks to be fungus related. Melafix is a mild antibacterial > and Pimafix is a mild antifungal. They can also be combined and when > combined work as a much stronger antibacterial/antifungal treatment. They > have a long shelf life, even after opened as long as the bottles are kept > tightly capped so you can keep them until needed. > > Here's an article by Doc Johnson, written years ago when Melafix first came > out. It lists both the negatives and the positives found by Doc Johnson. > http://www.koivet.com/koivet/index.php?option=com_content > <http://www.koivet.com/koivet/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1 > 00:melafix-pimafix-koi-healing-adjuvant&catid=36:medicine-treatments&Itemid= > 57> > &view=article&id=100:melafix-pimafix-koi-healing-adjuvant&catid=36:medicine- > treatments&Itemid=57 > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.koivet.com and in the top right, there > is a search box. Type in Melafix and hit enter and it will bring you to the > search results showing one article. That's the one. Unfortunately, > Koivet.com moved to a new website format and none of the photos on the page > are showing up (I've sent an email to the webmaster but also send your own). > The photos showed close-up pictures of a Koi that had a body injury and how > well it healed up and much faster with MelaFix in the water. > > You'll also see where he tested Melafix on a variety of species including > very sensitive fish and it was safe for all of them. > > The only types of fish that seem to be bothered by this medication to the > point where it's harmful are labyrinth fish like Betta's, Gourami's, etc. > > This is mainly due to the strong sweet smell that this medication puts out > and it causes the surface to foam a little. I think that it bothers the > labyrinth fish when they go up to breath and get a whiff of this strong > smell lingering on the surface. I've used it 1/2 dosage when treating some > Gourami's I adopted back in 2005. API also makes a product called BettaFix > which is a 1/10 dosage of MelaFix but it costs just as much as MelaFix so I > advise folks who are going to buy BettaFix, to just buy MelaFix and use a > partial dose up to 1/2 instead of buying something 1/10th the strength. > Now, if someone has ponds or a bunch of tanks and want to use this product, > there is a MelaFix pond version sold in 1/2 gallon size that's 10 times > stronger than the regular Melafix so that could be used in the fish tanks at > 1/10th the dosage to get to the regular Melafix dose... and save lots of > money that way.. since it would last ten times longer. > > On a side note, I just bought some Heartguard Plus chewables from > http://www.PetShed.com, an Australian etailer, but I bought the large sized > and cut them in half for my half-sized dog. You can't usually do this with > American etailers since they require a prescription but Australian etailers > do not require the prescription. This made the Heartguard Plus less than > $4.00 a month where my local vet was charging $7.00 or a local etailer was > getting around $6.00. The big savings came from being able to order the > larger chewables for only a little more money than the middle size... and > then cutting them in half. > > BTW.. you could always name the flying swordtail "Hey-Zeus".. or just Zeus > but say "Hey" to him when you call his name. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Medications question > > > > Hi, > > A friend of mine is moving and gave me two unopened med bottles, and I just > want to know more about them, how to use them if I ever need them. Both by > API -- PimaFix and Melafix. > > One looks like treatment for injuries, the other for fungal diseases..both > seem to be made of natural extracts. I've looked them up on the websites of > Petco and Petsmart. > > Good reviews, bad reviews? Useless? > > Also, they come light in detail of use. I'm extra careful because I have > snails in my tank (apples) and Corys. > > Again, I don't need them now, just want to know what they are used for, most > often, and if I need to use them with care around invertebrates. > > Thx > > Alina > > PS...and update on my jumping (er, flying?) fish --- The pineapple swordtail > that jumped out of my tank -- is living to tell about it. I swear it's like > nothing happened. It's a miracle. I wanted to name him Jesus but my husband > put the kabosh on that!! :-) > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081110-1, 11/10/2008 > Tested on: 11/11/2008 9:07:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32814	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

That's a pretty good reason. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? I have some of each. I like the stealth better for two reasons: it's slightly slimmer and I don't have to turn it off and wait 15 minutes before I drain the tank for PWC.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32815	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth?

I never remember to shut mine off at all, so a kind that it doesn't matter is better for me! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Hi Donna I don't know if I have ever had any damage but I shut Mine off just about the smae time that I start my PWC. If that is part of the instructions, I guess I had a "Seniorr Moment" when I read it. I have never even given it a thought as mine are seldom on. but I have pulled them out of the water to make an adjustment with the light lit. Just STUPID I guess. John In Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 5:25 PM I have some of each. I like the stealth better for two reasons: it's slightly slimmer and I don't have to turn it off and wait 15 minutes before I drain the tank for PWC. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? John, do you have the deluxe or the stealth model? The stealth is all black. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@sbcglobal . <mailto:dumont53% 40sbcglobal. net> net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Hi I have 2 300 Watt VisiTherm Heaters and have had them for 5 yrs now and they work great. VisiTherm is a brand name and you can read the settings in the glass part of the heaters. I believe that Marine Land bought out Aquarium Systems a number of years ago., but I am not 100% sure. But a heater is a Heater and the way things are manufactured these days, it would surprise me to find out that they are all made by one company in China. Why is that you can settle on a product only to find that the next time you buy it it is different. This is because buyers go over to China or Korea or elsewhere and make a deal to buy a lo of a product. The next time they may purchase a different lot. That being said, I had a problem with a 50 watt Visitherm heater and they sent me a new one that worked fine. That is Customer Service and that is important. John in Nevada --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:24 AM I think I've now got it straight. Eheim makes Jager, or other way around. Marineland sells Visitherm heaters that are made by Aquarium Systems, and Aquarium Systems also sells the same heaters without the Marineland brand. Apparently the stealth heaters are better quality than the deluxe. For one thing they have actual degrees marked on the thermostat knob. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? Now we're on Eheim (Jager) heaters??? What happened to Visi-Therm heaters? Sorry, don't know if Jager and Marineland are really the same heaters either, but I guess we're covering all bases here. The Rena heaters look similar too, but again, I have no idea if they're the same as Marineland. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > Think I want to stay with Eheim unless teh Marineland is really teh same > brand. I googled and not getting clarity. > > Which of the two Eheim heaters is better - the Eheim stealth or the Eheim > deluxe? Dr. Foster and Smith clamis the deluxe, which elsewhere is > cheaper. > > I don't want to buy a brand I've never heard of before no matter what the > features. Eheim is atleast reliable. > > Are Jager and Marineland really the same brand? They look the same. Just > more expensive. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > Maybe I erred on my numbers. I was going from memory.. and it's not what it > used to be.. lol.. or there's also a good chance that they don't make > heaters like they used to.. that's pretty much the norm for everything else. > > Yeah.. I knew that price on those Rena Cal's was a GREAT price which is why > I bought two even though I don't need them right now. I often find great > deals in the Clearance pages of DrsFosterSmith. com, PetsMart.com, > BigAlsOnline. com, MarineDepot. com, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or stealth? > > Just happened to re-read this post, after sending my reply. From early on, > I've learned that the general rule for heater capacity was > 3 Watts per gallon for an aquarium in the typical house kept in the > 72 o -- 75 o F range. Two (2) Watts per gallon will raise a tank's > temperature 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. With this in mind, 3 > Watts per gallon will be enough to raise the temperature to > 79.5 o (7 1/2 o above room temperature) in a room of 72 o, which would be > adequate. In a home kept at 70 o, a 5 Watt per gallon heater (raising a > tank's temperature 12.5 o above the ambient > temperature) will raise the tank's temperature to 82.5 o F, more than > adequate. If these newer numbers I'm now reading are the norm, maybe they > just ain't making heaters like they used too (LOL). > > Excellent price on those Rena Cal heaters; they're on par with Visi- Therm > and Eheim-Jager heaters for quality. Ray > > ---In AquaticLifeGroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Hmmmmm.. I'm not sure if I want to get involved in numbers and > formulas > > again.. LOL... but here goes. > > > > For the typical house kept in the 72-75F range, having 5 watts per > gallon of > > heaters is the suggested amount. If your home is cooler than 72F, > then you > > would need another 5 WPG per 7-8F lower than 72F. > > > > If your home is kept at 70F, then the typical 5WPG heater will > usually only > > be able to raise the tank temp up to 77-78F, which is fine in most > cases > > although some tropical's prefer higher temps. > > > > If one can afford it, it's better to have two heaters totaling the > needed > > amount to add safety and redundancy to the system. This way, if > one of the > > heaters fail in the stuck on or stuck off position, it would not be > able to > > major harm as the other heater will at stay off or on to > compensate. If you > > notice one heater with the ON light lit all the time, that could > mean the > > other heater is either set to low or has failed. > > > > On a side note, I just got an order in from DrsFosterSmith. com which > > included a couple of 100W heaters that were on clearance sale > (click the > > Clearance link on the left side of the page). They are Rena Cal > (from API) > > Top Light Excel, submersible and either horizontal or vertical > mount. > > Besides the light in the tube, it also has a top light on the dial. > The > > package advertises computer calibrated thermostat (with numbers on > the dial > > for easy setting), temperature range from 66F to 90F, etc., etc. > It says it > > is recommended for a 15-30 gallon tank but I think we already know > that it > > would only work on a 30G tank where the room temp is only a few > degrees > > cooler than the tank temp. BTW... these were on sale for 1/2 price > and only > > $10.00 each. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Visitherm is better - deluxe or > stealth? > > > > That's a lot of heaters. I have only one 150 watt heater in my 55 > gallon > > tank and it seems more than plenty warm enough (and I'm in Alaska > where it's > > supposed to be colder than other states, LOL). I have the heater > set usually > > close to 70-75 depending on the temp in the tank, and my tank seems > to set > > close to 75-80 depending on my house temps. Have you thought of just > > upgrading to one higher watted heater instead? I'm not sure if it > would work > > better or not and I'm sure it depends on your room temps a lot as > well. > > I use one of these heaters: > > http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web > > <http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/group/ 1343/product. web> > > > > > Just my 2 cents, you can ignore me if it doesn't pertain to your > set up :) > > > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Which Visitherm heater is better; the deluxe or the stealth? I > know > > > that on these lists I've seen the stealth advertised and I have > two 50 > > > watt ones in my 20 gallon tank. As the weather gets cooler they > aren't > > > quite keeping the tank warm enough so I want to get a third. > > > > > > Fosters and Smith has them at exactly the same price adn claims > that > > > teh deluxe is better. Elsewhere I found the deluxe for $16. > > > > > > By the way, is it actually teh same heater as the Marineland > stealth > > > heater? > > > Because the Marine stealth and Visitherm stealth heaters look > > > identical, only the Marineland heater seems to cost 50% more. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com > <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 Tested on: 11/9/2008 > > 9:21:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 7:16:07 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081109-0, 11/09/2008 > Tested on: 11/10/2008 8:34:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32816	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

Every time I see this thread I still wonder why all the tetras have to jump in the lake. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rev. Eric Roberts" <woad@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake I have the emperor filters and love them. I think ti was Lenny that had the page that shows how to perform surgery on the marineland filters that was a very excellent how-to. I went and put some pothos in the reservoir that feed of the waste matter in the water and they are thriving (I also put a couple of desk lamps over the top of them so they have plenty of light). There is also some graven at the bottom for the plants to root in. Eventually I want to join the 2 filters into one larger reservoir and grow a variety of plants in it. I still have to work on the details of this and how I am going to accomplish this. I was thinking of incorporating some other type of filtering. I forget what it is called, but what I was thinking is akin to the column filters that run the water through varying sized gravel and rocks (I saw this at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago (i did a web development contract there a few years back so I go to see a lot of the behind the scenes stuff. When I was there they were building their Wild Reef exhibit...and got to go in the tank before they filled it *grin*). This is on the back of a 55 gal tank. I would think that bamboo or other swampy plants would do well. If I had saltwater, I could do a mangrove swamp with what i am envisioning. Eric Dora Smith wrote: > > Chris: > > I have a Penguin/ Marineland power filter, and I added a bag of danio > balls > or tetra balls or whatever they're called. Nano balls? Little plastic > balls, they come in two sizes not necessarily sold by the same > company, that > have alot of bits of surface and grow bacteria. I hung a bag of them in > each of my filters. > You could add a bag of pebbles if you'd rather. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:09 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake > > It seems that according to my local dealer that Tetra has discontinued > their old line of whisper power filters. The shop keeper told me that > when I was looking for a new lift and guard for a 20 gallon filter I > have sitting around. He said they are discontinuing the model,but > keeping the biobags for the for those who still need them. I guess > Tetra decided that reusable biobags don't make them enough money, so > they decided to convert to junk carbon filter cartridges that you > cannot empty with out surgery. Boo! > > In the end there is good news to that. The guy showed me the Aqua > Clear hanging filter. Instead of a bag, you stack your sponge, carbon, > and biothingies on top of each other. Instead of water just passing > through and out, it recirculates the water inside before it is pumped > out. Pretty sweet imho! I guess tetra's loss is hagen's gain. All I > know is I'll never buy a Tetra product again. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32817	From: bill1433	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: What Is It? Where Is It?

Hi Everyone, � I have been spending a lot of time looking at the terrific pictures of your aquariums over on the group page. � I noticed many of you used completely submergible heaters.� Working on trying to get pieces of a� tank together I noticed on my list something that I am unable to find on the Internet.� Moreover, I�m probably not using the proper name and need some help. � Looking at your photo�s I would assume that you are using some type of device to hold these submersible heaters in place.� Can you please tell me the proper name of what this is and, if possible where I might find some? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It? Where Is It?

Most heaters come with suction cup holders if that's the elusive "device" you're trying to find. ;-) The suction cups that come with most aquarium stuff ends up coming loose after a while so I improvised on mine. I just lay my heater(s) on the bottom in the back, since they are heavy enough and do not float ( but also so I can easily move them when I need to vacuum under them) but I do have little corner clips to hold wires, etc. in the corners of the tank.... like these http://cableorganizer.com/wire-clips/ but the ones I found had little screw holes instead of the stick on. I just used aquarium silicone to glue a couple into each of the back corners of my tank. You'll have to get the double stick stuff off of these to use them. While talking about heaters.. and knowing your interested in an acrylic tank, I remember asking about this before I bought my first acrylic tank... will the heater melt the acrylic if it touches it? The answer is NO. In fact, when I had my mystery snails, they would crawl on the heater even when it was on so although it sure looks like it's putting a lot of heat out (the wiggly water currents), it's not as hot as one would think. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Where Is It? Hi Everyone, I have been spending a lot of time looking at the terrific pictures of your aquariums over on the group page. I noticed many of you used completely submergible heaters. Working on trying to get pieces of a tank together I noticed on my list something that I am unable to find on the Internet. Moreover, I¢m probably not using the proper name and need some help. Looking at your photo¢s I would assume that you are using some type of device to hold these submersible heaters in place. Can you please tell me the proper name of what this is and, if possible where I might find some? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 2:16:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32819	From: bill1433	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It? Where Is It?

Sorry, � I must be showing my age again!� Never owned a submersible heater but I can tell you one thing; that heater will be unplugged, before ol�bill pulls his hands in the tank to do a PWC! � I didn�t know the thing would stay submerged by itself.� As long as it does, I have no problems with it.� As I recall those old suction cup types with �O� rings on them to hold down the old heater tube would only due so for about 4 months and then begin to get gummy and life-less, if that makes any sense? � Sent Gmail this morning but computer connection was acting up. Files tell me it was sent but I wonder?� � Bill --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Where Is It? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 3:16 PM Most heaters come with suction cup holders if that's the elusive "device" you're trying to find. ;-) The suction cups that come with most aquarium stuff ends up coming loose after a while so I improvised on mine. I just lay my heater(s) on the bottom in the back, since they are heavy enough and do not float ( but also so I can easily move them when I need to vacuum under them) but I do have little corner clips to hold wires, etc. in the corners of the tank.... like these http://cableorganiz er.com/wire- clips/ but the ones I found had little screw holes instead of the stick on. I just used aquarium silicone to glue a couple into each of the back corners of my tank. You'll have to get the double stick stuff off of these to use them. While talking about heaters.. and knowing your interested in an acrylic tank, I remember asking about this before I bought my first acrylic tank... will the heater melt the acrylic if it touches it? The answer is NO. In fact, when I had my mystery snails, they would crawl on the heater even when it was on so although it sure looks like it's putting a lot of heat out (the wiggly water currents), it's not as hot as one would think. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Where Is It? Hi Everyone, I have been spending a lot of time looking at the terrific pictures of your aquariums over on the group page. I noticed many of you used completely submergible heaters. Working on trying to get pieces of a tank together I noticed on my list something that I am unable to find on the Internet. Moreover, I�m probably not using the proper name and need some help. Looking at your photo�s I would assume that you are using some type of device to hold these submersible heaters in place. Can you please tell me the proper name of what this is and, if possible where I might find some? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 2:16:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It? Where Is It?

It's probably a good idea to unplug things but as long as you aren't standing barefoot in a puddle of water or holding onto something that's grounded, the most you'd feel is a little tingle.. and if you do feel that, then you know you need to find the cause and fix it because that same electrical current is messing up your fish even more. It affects their lateral line and stresses them out. And if you are standing in a puddle of water or holding something grounded, you won't feel a thing.. unless you didn't die and wake up.. then it will hurt! LOL -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Where Is It? Sorry, I must be showing my age again! Never owned a submersible heater but I can tell you one thing; that heater will be unplugged, before ol’bill pulls his hands in the tank to do a PWC! I didn’t know the thing would stay submerged by itself. As long as it does, I have no problems with it. As I recall those old suction cup types with “O” rings on them to hold down the old heater tube would only due so for about 4 months and then begin to get gummy and life-less, if that makes any sense? Sent Gmail this morning but computer connection was acting up. Files tell me it was sent but I wonder? Bill --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Where Is It? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 3:16 PM Most heaters come with suction cup holders if that's the elusive "device" you're trying to find. ;-) The suction cups that come with most aquarium stuff ends up coming loose after a while so I improvised on mine. I just lay my heater(s) on the bottom in the back, since they are heavy enough and do not float ( but also so I can easily move them when I need to vacuum under them) but I do have little corner clips to hold wires, etc. in the corners of the tank.... like these http://cableorganiz er.com/wire- clips/ but the ones I found had little screw holes instead of the stick on. I just used aquarium silicone to glue a couple into each of the back corners of my tank. You'll have to get the double stick stuff off of these to use them. While talking about heaters.. and knowing your interested in an acrylic tank, I remember asking about this before I bought my first acrylic tank... will the heater melt the acrylic if it touches it? The answer is NO. In fact, when I had my mystery snails, they would crawl on the heater even when it was on so although it sure looks like it's putting a lot of heat out (the wiggly water currents), it's not as hot as one would think. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Where Is It? Hi Everyone, I have been spending a lot of time looking at the terrific pictures of your aquariums over on the group page. I noticed many of you used completely submergible heaters. Working on trying to get pieces of a tank together I noticed on my list something that I am unable to find on the Internet. Moreover, I¢m probably not using the proper name and need some help. Looking at your photo¢s I would assume that you are using some type of device to hold these submersible heaters in place. Can you please tell me the proper name of what this is and, if possible where I might find some? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 3:33:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32821	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It? Where Is It?

Lenny, As usual you are pretty creative. For lazy types like me ZooMed makes a magnetic holder that can be used for heaters or other in tank items like filter tubes for canister filters. A member of another list mentioned using tank cleaning magnets as a DIY heater holder. http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/Search.php?SearchID=3&DatabaseID=2&Keywords=magnet -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:16 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Where Is It? Most heaters come with suction cup holders if that's the elusive "device" you're trying to find. ;-) The suction cups that come with most aquarium stuff ends up coming loose after a while so I improvised on mine. I just lay my heater(s) on the bottom in the back, since they are heavy enough and do not float ( but also so I can easily move them when I need to vacuum under them) but I do have little corner clips to hold wires, etc. in the corners of the tank.... like these http://cableorganizer.com/wire-clips/ but the ones I found had little screw holes instead of the stick on. I just used aquarium silicone to glue a couple into each of the back corners of my tank. You'll have to get the double stick stuff off of these to use them. While talking about heaters.. and knowing your interested in an acrylic tank, I remember asking about this before I bought my first acrylic tank... will the heater melt the acrylic if it touches it? The answer is NO. In fact, when I had my mystery snails, they would crawl on the heater even when it was on so although it sure looks like it's putting a lot of heat out (the wiggly water currents), it's not as hot as one would think. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Where Is It? Hi Everyone, I have been spending a lot of time looking at the terrific pictures of your aquariums over on the group page. I noticed many of you used completely submergible heaters. Working on trying to get pieces of a tank together I noticed on my list something that I am unable to find on the Internet. Moreover, I¢m probably not using the proper name and need some help. Looking at your photo¢s I would assume that you are using some type of device to hold these submersible heaters in place. Can you please tell me the proper name of what this is and, if possible where I might find some? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 2:16:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32822	From: pam andress	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

I have both. The old Whisper and the new Aqua Clear. The Aqua Clear beats the Whisper hands down. Congrats on getting a nice filter. Pam Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:09:36 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake It seems that according to my local dealer that Tetra has discontinuedtheir old line of whisper power filters. The shop keeper told me thatwhen I was looking for a new lift and guard for a 20 gallon filter Ihave sitting around. He said they are discontinuing the model,butkeeping the biobags for the for those who still need them. I guessTetra decided that reusable biobags don't make them enough money, sothey decided to convert to junk carbon filter cartridges that youcannot empty with out surgery. Boo!In the end there is good news to that. The guy showed me the AquaClear hanging filter. Instead of a bag, you stack your sponge, carbon,and biothingies on top of each other. Instead of water just passingthrough and out, it recirculates the water inside before it is pumpedout. Pretty sweet imho! I guess tetra's loss is hagen's gain. All Iknow is I'll never buy a Tetra product again. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32823	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

The company Tetra ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:38:45 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake Every time I see this thread I still wonder why all the tetras have to jump in the lake. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rev. Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. org> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake I have the emperor filters and love them. I think ti was Lenny that had the page that shows how to perform surgery on the marineland filters that was a very excellent how-to. I went and put some pothos in the reservoir that feed of the waste matter in the water and they are thriving (I also put a couple of desk lamps over the top of them so they have plenty of light). There is also some graven at the bottom for the plants to root in. Eventually I want to join the 2 filters into one larger reservoir and grow a variety of plants in it. I still have to work on the details of this and how I am going to accomplish this.. I was thinking of incorporating some other type of filtering. I forget what it is called, but what I was thinking is akin to the column filters that run the water through varying sized gravel and rocks (I saw this at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago (i did a web development contract there a few years back so I go to see a lot of the behind the scenes stuff. When I was there they were building their Wild Reef exhibit...and got to go in the tank before they filled it *grin*). This is on the back of a 55 gal tank. I would think that bamboo or other swampy plants would do well.. If I had saltwater, I could do a mangrove swamp with what i am envisioning. Eric Dora Smith wrote: > > Chris: > > I have a Penguin/ Marineland power filter, and I added a bag of danio > balls > or tetra balls or whatever they're called. Nano balls? Little plastic > balls, they come in two sizes not necessarily sold by the same > company, that > have alot of bits of surface and grow bacteria. I hung a bag of them in > each of my filters. > You could add a bag of pebbles if you'd rather.. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@yahoo. com <mailto:crjm28% 40yahoo.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:09 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake > > It seems that according to my local dealer that Tetra has discontinued > their old line of whisper power filters. The shop keeper told me that > when I was looking for a new lift and guard for a 20 gallon filter I > have sitting around. He said they are discontinuing the model,but > keeping the biobags for the for those who still need them. I guess > Tetra decided that reusable biobags don't make them enough money, so > they decided to convert to junk carbon filter cartridges that you > cannot empty with out surgery. Boo! > > In the end there is good news to that. The guy showed me the Aqua > Clear hanging filter. Instead of a bag, you stack your sponge, carbon, > and biothingies on top of each other. Instead of water just passing > through and out, it recirculates the water inside before it is pumped > out. Pretty sweet imho! I guess tetra's loss is hagen's gain. All I > know is I'll never buy a Tetra product again. > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·...<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32824	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

Thanks :) ________________________________ From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:04:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake I have both. The old Whisper and the new Aqua Clear. The Aqua Clear beats the Whisper hands down. Congrats on getting a nice filter. Pam Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:09:36 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake It seems that according to my local dealer that Tetra has discontinuedtheir old line of whisper power filters. The shop keeper told me thatwhen I was looking for a new lift and guard for a 20 gallon filter Ihave sitting around. He said they are discontinuing the model,butkeeping the biobags for the for those who still need them. I guessTetra decided that reusable biobags don't make them enough money, sothey decided to convert to junk carbon filter cartridges that youcannot empty with out surgery. Boo!In the end there is good news to that. The guy showed me the AquaClear hanging filter. Instead of a bag, you stack your sponge, carbon,and biothingies on top of each other. Instead of water just passingthrough and out, it recirculates the water inside before it is pumpedout. Pretty sweet imho! I guess tetra's loss is hagen's gain. All Iknow is I'll never buy a Tetra product again. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32825	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

Sweet idea. Join a yahoo aquaponics group since that is what you are thinking of. Why stick with bamboo, when you can use garden plants and grow your own food? Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32828	From: Philip	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium

Hi, I want to add dead twigs,(wood) as part of a decoration in my tank. I mostly have maple trees limbs around. Any ideas if this advisable. Philip

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32829	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium

In a message dated 11/11/2008 5:51:27 P.M. Central Standard Time, alone29784@... writes: Hi, I want to add dead twigs,(wood) as part of a decoration in my tank. I mostly have maple trees limbs around. Any ideas if this advisable. Philip I wouldn't jump on it. I added cured driftwood to my 55 tank 3 months ago. To be on the supersafe side I had it ageing in an outdoor container for 2 years. Ok, ok, you want it yesterday. I would suggest you DO NOT use any bark and boil the heck out of it. Then there's the whole issue of buoyancy (fixed by letting the piece soak in water for however long it takes to get it waterlogged or weighing it down with a rock). No harsh chemicals that will soak into the wood and than leach out (and probably kill off your fish) should be used. The piece I have is pine. I dont know how well a piece of Maple will hold. Hope that helps some. Enid **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32830	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium

I think it would foul the water. Here some sites I have in my favorites folder about the topic. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/55482-diy-driftwood-aquarium-safe-wood s.html http://westerncichlids.com.au/the-use-of-wood-in-aquariums/ http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/aquascaping.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium Hi, I want to add dead twigs,(wood) as part of a decoration in my tank. I mostly have maple trees limbs around. Any ideas if this advisable. Philip _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 6:26:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32831	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium

Thanks all the advice and the links. I will not add the twigs or wood. I will close this topic. Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32832	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: How much gravel?

Hi Lenny, Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need for a 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this baby? Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. Thanks, Steve _____ <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=8495157/grpspId=1705042752/msgId =32830/stime=1226449622/nc1=5191953/nc2=4763760/nc3=4025304> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32833	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple questions.

First of all the tank has been run for at least a year as a saltwater tank, it comes with the stand/canopy/light/filter pump/sump and a few odds and ends of tank maintenance stuff for a saltwater (salt mix, etc). Basically I will need to get some gravel for the tank, my question is how much gravel should I need for a 125 gallon tank if I am doing another freshwater tank? I took a quick peek at the tank this afternoon but since I was at work (delivering) I didn't have the chance to examine it. It's VERY dirty, LOL. but thankfully there are no more fish in it and it looks like she even has a python to clean it with, hoping that comes with too, hehe. The tank appears to have a sand mix for saltwater, is it possible to reuse this somehow? The tank is mostly just going to be for my (currently tiny) severum and 2 angel fish, and possibly some bottom feeders later on. My mom has a pictus catfish in a tiny 20 gallon that I want to rescue at some point and throw into the big tank as well, as soon as I figure out how to get him out of the tank without a net, LOL. Any tips? Oh and I'm getting all of this for 250, seemed like a darn good deal to me, hoping I was right ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32834	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium

Well.. driftwood is still a viable option. I have it in my big tank but smaller pieces can be purchased as well. Just not fresh raw wood. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I add dead Twigs to a fresh water aquarium Thanks all the advice and the links. I will not add the twigs or wood. I will close this topic. Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 7:24:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32835	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...

I know I am new, and haven't done my intro yet, but thought I might jump in one this one if acceptable? If you are considering re-useing the sand, I used to 'wash' sand when cleaning it for hermit crabs. Outside in a bucket, rinse til the water comes clear. We then baked it in the oven until dry to kill any weird bacteria that might be lingering. Do your particular freshwater fish like any salt at all in their water? You may not have to wash it really, really good, like you would be to get ALL of the salt out. I know that my converted mollies do fine in the marine tank (55 gallon) I set them up in, but the guppies I have like Zero salt. (55 gallon). In fact, I used cleaned crabbie sand in the 55 gal salt. I also have a 75 gal marine tank with bought live sand. I would check the water for any salt residue, but I don't know of a tester that goes that low. Maybe a chemical test? But, yes, you can reuse the sand, for hermit crabs, sand box, in the yard, or back in a fish tank. As to catching a large fish with no net, a plastic gallon pitcher works well, settle it into the tank, 'herd' the fish into it, cover the top with your (gloved?) hand, and carefully lift. I would have a larger bucket waiting to put him in if you have to go far. Reptiles have bacteria in their waste that is not good for fish, I would give it a good wash with bleach water and let it air out for a day or 2 before filling. Laura in KY In a message dated 11/11/2008 7:04:54 PM Central Standard Time, amber@... writes: First of all the tank has been run for at least a year as a saltwater tank, it comes with the stand/canopy/tank, it comes with the stand/can odds and ends of tank maintenance stuff for a saltwater (salt mix, etc). Basically I will need to get some gravel for the tank, my question is how much gravel should I need for a 125 gallon tank if I am doing another freshwater tank? I took a quick peek at the tank this afternoon but since I was at work (delivering) I didn't have the chance to examine it. It's VERY dirty, LOL. but thankfully there are no more fish in it and it looks like she even has a python to clean it with, hoping that comes with too, hehe. The tank appears to have a sand mix for saltwater, is it possible to reuse this somehow? The tank is mostly just going to be for my (currently tiny) severum and 2 angel fish, and possibly some bottom feeders later on. My mom has a pictus catfish in a tiny 20 gallon that I want to rescue at some point and throw into the big tank as well, as soon as I figure out how to get him out of the tank without a net, LOL. Any tips? **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32836	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...

Thanks for the tips on reusing the sand that's currently in the tank. I wasn't able to get a good enough look, but at least I'm pretty sure there is sand and maybe some other stuff still in the tank, but the glass was so dirty with growth that I couldn't see into the tank very well. I was told that the fish store had bought everything inside of it though, so I could be wrong, I may have to get my own sand/gravel myself. I currently add a little salt to my freshwater tank, but not very much at all. Would my severum and angel fish prefer sand to gravel, or is it more my own preference? I was thinking "reptiles?" then realized that I mentioned the python, which is an aquarium hose cleaner that hooks up directly to your faucet to empty/fill your aquarium, it uses the water pressure to fill and drain the tank. They can be wonderful if you have the right faucet hookup, which I currently don't upstairs as it's my bathroom, but the big tank will be down in the living room so I can hook the python up to my kitchen faucet. I'm considering switching my bathroom faucet to one that has a removable threader piece so that I can attach the python to it, but I think I will need a taller faucet, will have to cross that bridge later, LOL. AwlArtist@... wrote: > > > I know I am new, and haven't done my intro yet, but thought I might > jump in > one this one if acceptable? > If you are considering re-useing the sand, I used to 'wash' sand when > cleaning it for hermit crabs. > Outside in a bucket, rinse til the water comes clear. > We then baked it in the oven until dry to kill any weird bacteria that > might > be lingering. > Do your particular freshwater fish like any salt at all in their water? > You may not have to wash it really, really good, like you would be to > get ALL > of the salt out. > I know that my converted mollies do fine in the marine tank (55 > gallon) I set > them up in, but the guppies I have like Zero salt. (55 gallon). > In fact, I used cleaned crabbie sand in the 55 gal salt. I also have a > 75 gal > marine tank with bought live sand. > I would check the water for any salt residue, but I don't know of a > tester > that goes that low. Maybe a chemical test? > But, yes, you can reuse the sand, for hermit crabs, sand box, in the > yard, or > back in a fish tank. > > As to catching a large fish with no net, a plastic gallon pitcher > works well, > settle it into the tank, 'herd' the fish into it, cover the top with your > (gloved?) hand, and carefully lift. I would have a larger bucket > waiting to put > him in if you have to go far. > > Reptiles have bacteria in their waste that is not good for fish, I > would give > it a good wash with bleach water and let it air out for a day or 2 before > filling. > > Laura in KY > > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 7:04:54 PM Central Standard Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > First of all the tank has been run for at least a year as a saltwater > tank, it comes with the stand/canopy/tank, it comes with the stand/can > odds and ends of tank maintenance stuff for a saltwater (salt mix, etc). > Basically I will need to get some gravel for the tank, my question is > how much gravel should I need for a 125 gallon tank if I am doing > another freshwater tank? > > I took a quick peek at the tank this afternoon but since I was at work > (delivering) I didn't have the chance to examine it. It's VERY dirty, > LOL. but thankfully there are no more fish in it and it looks like she > even has a python to clean it with, hoping that comes with too, hehe. > The tank appears to have a sand mix for saltwater, is it possible to > reuse this somehow? > > The tank is mostly just going to be for my (currently tiny) severum and > 2 angel fish, and possibly some bottom feeders later on. My mom has a > pictus catfish in a tiny 20 gallon that I want to rescue at some point > and throw into the big tank as well, as soon as I figure out how to get > him out of the tank without a net, LOL. Any tips? > > **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and > all other > Holiday needs. Search Now. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from> > -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32837	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?

Why do you want 2 inches? Unless you are planning live plants, I find it's better to go with a 1" layer so it's easier to keep clean when vacuuming the gravel each week. Next... will the gravel be finer grain or larger grain? Will it be the colored aquarium gravel or natural pea gravel? As you can see, there are way too many variables to have a standard formula but here is my edumacated guess (yes, I spelled edumacated that way on purpose.. lol). OK... let's see... we have a 48" x 21" x 1" = 1,008 cubic inches for a 1" layer. 2,016 cubic inches for a 2" layer.... OK.. enough of me trying to play mechanical engineer. Here's link to a formula. http://www.aquariumarticles.com/read/?art=1112 Yes, I have a link to everything. LOL But recognize that even that article references the density/weight of the various substrate compounds... so now what??? Yes, another link. LOL http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_materials.htm (but this one will take a little work to compare the various substrates to separate them from all of the other "dry goods" listed in the article) But back to simpler formulas... If you are going with pea gravel from a landscape company who might sell it in bulk where you bring your own box, you could also use my cubic inches math (above) and find a box that measures to similar cubic inches (L x W x H) and have it filled accordingly. For example, if you have a 12" x 12" footprint box, at least 7" high, each inch of gravel would equal 144 cubic inches... so 7" deep in that box would equal 1,008 cubic inches... or 1" of gravel in your tank. Two boxes with 7" each would give you 2". If you are buying the pretty gravel at the pet store (yes, I'm being sarcastic although I still have this.. lol) then they may provide the cubic inches on the bag down by the weight section. If not, they you could measure the bag and the average thickness and come up with how many cubic inches are in each bag. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? Hi Lenny, Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need for a 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this baby? Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. Thanks, Steve _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 7:57:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32838	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple questio

For the gravel questions, see my answer(s) to Steve in his thread called "How Much Gravel?" I don't think you should try to reuse the sand unless you are ready to remove it all, rinse it thoroughly, boil it to kill any pathogens, etc.... easier to buy new if you are going with sand. Check the archives for other threads about sand. We've had several recently.. and many, many options for sand. My first choice would be a swimming pool supply outlet as they use sand in the pool's filter systems.. but you'll have to give the sand the "feel" test to make sure it's not too rough or sharp compared to other sand varieties. Different brands will likely have different types of grains. Ask one of your fisherman/woman friends to borrow their "Landing Net" used for landing big fish... but it might be bigger than the tank. They do have different sized nets in a pond supply store for larger fish. Empty the 20G as much as possible so the fish doesn't have as much room to avoid the net. Yes.... $250 is a heck of a deal!!! Good find!!!! You see that Bill.. it can be done! Even in Alaska.. this is Amber in Alaska.. right??? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple questions. First of all the tank has been run for at least a year as a saltwater tank, it comes with the stand/canopy/light/filter pump/sump and a few odds and ends of tank maintenance stuff for a saltwater (salt mix, etc). Basically I will need to get some gravel for the tank, my question is how much gravel should I need for a 125 gallon tank if I am doing another freshwater tank? I took a quick peek at the tank this afternoon but since I was at work (delivering) I didn't have the chance to examine it. It's VERY dirty, LOL. but thankfully there are no more fish in it and it looks like she even has a python to clean it with, hoping that comes with too, hehe. The tank appears to have a sand mix for saltwater, is it possible to reuse this somehow? The tank is mostly just going to be for my (currently tiny) severum and 2 angel fish, and possibly some bottom feeders later on. My mom has a pictus catfish in a tiny 20 gallon that I want to rescue at some point and throw into the big tank as well, as soon as I figure out how to get him out of the tank without a net, LOL. Any tips? Oh and I'm getting all of this for 250, seemed like a darn good deal to me, hoping I was right ;) Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 8:06:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32839	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...

LOL. I was wondering about that last paragraph about "Reptiles?" was included also. I didn't think twice about a Python (Water Change System) actually being a snake. LOL (And now, switching to my red-neck voice)... You know you're a Fish-Neck when you pick out faucets that will work better with your Python. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu... Thanks for the tips on reusing the sand that's currently in the tank. I wasn't able to get a good enough look, but at least I'm pretty sure there is sand and maybe some other stuff still in the tank, but the glass was so dirty with growth that I couldn't see into the tank very well. I was told that the fish store had bought everything inside of it though, so I could be wrong, I may have to get my own sand/gravel myself. I currently add a little salt to my freshwater tank, but not very much at all. Would my severum and angel fish prefer sand to gravel, or is it more my own preference? I was thinking "reptiles?" then realized that I mentioned the python, which is an aquarium hose cleaner that hooks up directly to your faucet to empty/fill your aquarium, it uses the water pressure to fill and drain the tank. They can be wonderful if you have the right faucet hookup, which I currently don't upstairs as it's my bathroom, but the big tank will be down in the living room so I can hook the python up to my kitchen faucet. I'm considering switching my bathroom faucet to one that has a removable threader piece so that I can attach the python to it, but I think I will need a taller faucet, will have to cross that bridge later, LOL. AwlArtist@... <mailto:AwlArtist%40aol.com> wrote: > > > I know I am new, and haven't done my intro yet, but thought I might > jump in one this one if acceptable? > If you are considering re-useing the sand, I used to 'wash' sand when > cleaning it for hermit crabs. > Outside in a bucket, rinse til the water comes clear. > We then baked it in the oven until dry to kill any weird bacteria that > might be lingering. > Do your particular freshwater fish like any salt at all in their water? > You may not have to wash it really, really good, like you would be to > get ALL of the salt out. > I know that my converted mollies do fine in the marine tank (55 > gallon) I set > them up in, but the guppies I have like Zero salt. (55 gallon). > In fact, I used cleaned crabbie sand in the 55 gal salt. I also have a > 75 gal > marine tank with bought live sand. > I would check the water for any salt residue, but I don't know of a > tester that goes that low. Maybe a chemical test? > But, yes, you can reuse the sand, for hermit crabs, sand box, in the > yard, or back in a fish tank. > > As to catching a large fish with no net, a plastic gallon pitcher > works well, settle it into the tank, 'herd' the fish into it, cover > the top with your > (gloved?) hand, and carefully lift. I would have a larger bucket > waiting to put him in if you have to go far. > > Reptiles have bacteria in their waste that is not good for fish, I > would give it a good wash with bleach water and let it air out for a > day or 2 before filling. > > Laura in KY > > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 7:04:54 PM Central Standard Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > First of all the tank has been run for at least a year as a saltwater > tank, it comes with the stand/canopy/tank, it comes with the stand/can > odds and ends of tank maintenance stuff for a saltwater (salt mix, etc). > Basically I will need to get some gravel for the tank, my question is > how much gravel should I need for a 125 gallon tank if I am doing > another freshwater tank? > > I took a quick peek at the tank this afternoon but since I was at work > (delivering) I didn't have the chance to examine it. It's VERY dirty, > LOL. but thankfully there are no more fish in it and it looks like she > even has a python to clean it with, hoping that comes with too, hehe. > The tank appears to have a sand mix for saltwater, is it possible to > reuse this somehow? > > The tank is mostly just going to be for my (currently tiny) severum > and > 2 angel fish, and possibly some bottom feeders later on. My mom has a > pictus catfish in a tiny 20 gallon that I want to rescue at some point > and throw into the big tank as well, as soon as I figure out how to > get him out of the tank without a net, LOL. Any tips? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 8:20:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32840	From: Lisa	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Well good news all. I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I can start on the first fun phase! Decorating! Then my LFS says 3 – 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to do 2 weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually build up stock over time. Lisa (Australia)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32841	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple questio

yes I saw the links and thought it funny that someone was asking the same question as me at the same time ;). The only reason I considered using the old sand was because there is already enough for the tank I'm sure, so I won't have to purchase any more of it. I understand it will be a lot of work, but if it's possible I may just go that route, I don't have to hurry to get the tank cycled and all that, since my severum is still tiny (inch and a half and growing, wooh, LOL). I will have to double check to see if there's sand in it or not, I really didn't get a very good look in the couple of minutes I was there. She did say that I will have to get everything to put inside of it, but that's a very general statement. I can check our local hardware stores to see if they carry any swimming pool sand, but seeing as I'm in Alaska I doubt it, LOL. We have like 2 or 3 swimming pools on this entire island. As far as the pictus catfish, I asked because they tend to get stuck to fish nets (they have a serrated pectoral fin), the last time we netted him he got stuck to the net and made a horrible squealing noise while we tried to get him unstuck, poor fish :( That was years ago and I didnt' want to net him again, and have to de-tangle him again ;) Amber (yes, in Alaska, hehe) Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > For the gravel questions, see my answer(s) to Steve in his thread called > "How Much Gravel?" > > I don't think you should try to reuse the sand unless you are ready to > remove it all, rinse it thoroughly, boil it to kill any pathogens, etc.... > easier to buy new if you are going with sand. Check the archives for other > threads about sand. We've had several recently.. and many, many > options for > sand. My first choice would be a swimming pool supply outlet as they use > sand in the pool's filter systems.. but you'll have to give the sand the > "feel" test to make sure it's not too rough or sharp compared to other > sand > varieties. Different brands will likely have different types of grains. > > Ask one of your fisherman/woman friends to borrow their "Landing Net" used > for landing big fish... but it might be bigger than the tank. They do have > different sized nets in a pond supply store for larger fish. Empty the 20G > as much as possible so the fish doesn't have as much room to avoid the > net. > > Yes.... $250 is a heck of a deal!!! Good find!!!! > > You see that Bill.. it can be done! Even in Alaska.. this is Amber in > Alaska.. right??? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a > couple questions. > > First of all the tank has been run for at least a year as a saltwater > tank, > it comes with the stand/canopy/light/filter pump/sump and a few odds and > ends of tank maintenance stuff for a saltwater (salt mix, etc). > Basically I will need to get some gravel for the tank, my question is how > much gravel should I need for a 125 gallon tank if I am doing another > freshwater tank? > > I took a quick peek at the tank this afternoon but since I was at work > (delivering) I didn't have the chance to examine it. It's VERY dirty, LOL. > but thankfully there are no more fish in it and it looks like she even > has a > python to clean it with, hoping that comes with too, hehe. > The tank appears to have a sand mix for saltwater, is it possible to reuse > this somehow? > > The tank is mostly just going to be for my (currently tiny) severum and > 2 angel fish, and possibly some bottom feeders later on. My mom has a > pictus > catfish in a tiny 20 gallon that I want to rescue at some point and throw > into the big tank as well, as soon as I figure out how to get him out > of the > tank without a net, LOL. Any tips? > > Oh and I'm getting all of this for 250, seemed like a darn good deal > to me, > hoping I was right ;) > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 > Tested on: 11/11/2008 8:06:28 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32842	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...

I would look up breeding preferences for your fish, or if that's not something you wish to do, go with your own preference :) LOL, now I feel really out of the loop ... python ... yeah, I was thinking a live snake. That sounds so cool!! I pull water out with a plastic pitcher, mix it and put it back the same way. 1/3 gallon every 15 min or so. When I remember. I so dream of a 'real house' (I live in a mobile home with NO storage areas... I ripped out a closet and set up fish tanks...LOL... outside boards rotted...NOT MY FAULT...lol, it's a 1974 model, so I moved the two 55 gallon tanks and let hubby fix it, then put the 75 gallon there. Anyway, I would love to have a barrel or something OVER the tank (upstairs), that I could mix my salt water, aerate the water and rig a drip system to put it back in slowly. With water outlets ran up to it, so I don't have to carry it. Dreams...lol I have a green bristle starfish who does not like change. Not fast change anyway. Takes me all of 2 days to replace the 10-15 gallons when doing partial water changes. I think about doing a couple gallons a day, but then don't do it. Keep an eye out on E Bay, we got a pair of Mowen faucets (used) awhile back for $15 + $20 shipping. Those tall curvy ones, they were a kit sink type and a veggie/ bar one, but we put the 'little' one in the bathroom, and it's so nice! Fit perfect, too! (Oh, and I have a Ball Python in my bathroom...LOL) Laura in KY In a message dated 11/11/2008 7:47:09 PM Central Standard Time, amber@... writes: Would my severum and angel fish prefer sand to gravel, or is it more my own preference? I was thinking "reptiles?" then realized that I mentioned the python, which is an aquarium hose cleaner that hooks up directly to your faucet to empty/fill your aquarium, it uses the water pressure to fill and drain the tank. They can be wonderful if you have the right faucet hookup, which I currently don't upstairs as it's my bathroom, but the big tank will be down in the living room so I can hook the python up to my kitchen faucet. I'm considering switching my bathroom faucet to one that has a removable threader piece so that I can attach the python to it, but I think I will need a taller faucet, will have to cross that bridge later, LOL. **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32843	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...

Well now I can see why you were thinking about a snake ;) I've read that severum's like a "soft" bottom in their fish tank, so I'm assuming that sand would be good for them. I didn't find any info on what angel fish prefer, and I know that catfish like to "dig" sometimes, or at least some of them do. But I'm not sure if sand will be too "soft" for the severum, soft is a bit of a general way to describe sand or gravel IMO ;) hehe. My hubby thinks that I have a fish addiction and I only have a 10 gallon and a 55 gallon (well currently until I get the 125 gallon in 2 weeks). Honestly though, I love to watch my fish, they fascinate me and I find it very calming. He just doesn't understand LOL, I don't think he pays any attention to the fish ;) When I ask which one is his favorite he says, "they're all fish, they all swim, why should I have a favorite?" LOL. My arguments don't go far to convince him otherwise as well ;) BTW Lenny, I loved the fish-neck joke, but I had to explain it to my husband, don't think he enjoyed it quite as much as I did ;) Amber AwlArtist@... wrote: > > > I would look up breeding preferences for your fish, or if that's not > something you wish to do, go with your own preference :) > LOL, now I feel really out of the loop ... python ... yeah, I was > thinking a > live snake. > That sounds so cool!! I pull water out with a plastic pitcher, mix it > and put > it back the same way. 1/3 gallon every 15 min or so. When I remember. > I so dream of a 'real house' (I live in a mobile home with NO storage > areas... I ripped out a closet and set up fish tanks...LOL... outside > boards > rotted...NOT MY FAULT...lol, it's a 1974 model, so I moved the two 55 > gallon tanks and > let hubby fix it, then put the 75 gallon there. > Anyway, I would love to have a barrel or something OVER the tank > (upstairs), > that I could mix my salt water, aerate the water and rig a drip system > to put > it back in slowly. With water outlets ran up to it, so I don't have to > carry > it. Dreams...lol > I have a green bristle starfish who does not like change. Not fast change > anyway. Takes me all of 2 days to replace the 10-15 gallons when doing > partial > water changes. I think about doing a couple gallons a day, but then > don't do it. > Keep an eye out on E Bay, we got a pair of Mowen faucets (used) awhile > back > for $15 + $20 shipping. Those tall curvy ones, they were a kit sink > type and a > veggie/ bar one, but we put the 'little' one in the bathroom, and it's so > nice! Fit perfect, too! > (Oh, and I have a Ball Python in my bathroom...LOL) > Laura in KY > > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 7:47:09 PM Central Standard Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > Would my severum and angel fish prefer sand to gravel, or is it more my > own preference? > > I was thinking "reptiles?" then realized that I mentioned the python, > which is an aquarium hose cleaner that hooks up directly to your faucet > to empty/fill your aquarium, it uses the water pressure to fill and > drain the tank. They can be wonderful if you have the right faucet > hookup, which I currently don't upstairs as it's my bathroom, but the > big tank will be down in the living room so I can hook the python up to > my kitchen faucet. I'm considering switching my bathroom faucet to one > that has a removable threader piece so that I can attach the python to > it, but I think I will need a taller faucet, will have to cross that > bridge later, LOL. > > **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and > all other > Holiday needs. Search Now. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from> > -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32844	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Okay, this may sound like a noobie question for everyone ;) Has anyone ever cycled a tank with a betta? I have heard that the ammonia doesn't bother them as much as it does other fish, and was wondering if this would actually work and not cause stress on the fish as much as it would "regular" freshwater fish. Is a madaka a discus? I did a search on google and it was the only fish related name that came up ;) Lisa wrote: > > Well good news all. > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I can > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > Then my LFS says 3 – 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to do 2 > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually build > up stock over time. > > Lisa (Australia) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32845	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?

An old rule of thumb is 1 pound of gravel per gallon of tank size. This would give you something like 2-3" of gravel. However, as Lenny mentions, there are a number of variables. If you are using a #2 gravel, this would give you less depth than the standard #3 gravel or larger. #1 gravel, just for your information, is similar to the grit used on the floor of bird cages. Also, if you have aquascaping décor that is partially buried, or buried to the bottom of the gravel bed, this will displace a certain amount of the gravel, giving you somewhat of a deeper bed. Also, having a non-standard size tank, puts a kind of twist on this kind of rule. You can try the calculations that Lenny gave you links for, or you can do like I, with my incredibly sharp scientific mind, would do--buy a 50# bag of the stuff, wash it out and put it in the tank. Take a look at the handy work, and mentally calculate how much more you would need to gain your desired effect. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? Hi Lenny, Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need for a 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this baby? Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. Thanks, Steve _____

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32846	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu...

You mean hubby doesn't know about Jeff Foxworthy... the comic that put together his career based on redneck jokes... or is hubby a redneck? Maybe he thinks he's smarter than a 5th grader too! LOL Before he gets mad at me, remind him I'm from N'Awlins... land of the free and home of the rednecks... even though we don't really have that many in the "Big Easy" itself, you have to head out an hour or two in any direction to find 'em.. and if you head south or southwest, you'll also find coon-asses (aka Cajuns). My favorite redneck joke is... You know you're a redneck when you go to family reunions to pick up chicks! LOL Here's more... http://www.fortogden.com/foredneck.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple qu... Well now I can see why you were thinking about a snake ;) I've read that severum's like a "soft" bottom in their fish tank, so I'm assuming that sand would be good for them. I didn't find any info on what angel fish prefer, and I know that catfish like to "dig" sometimes, or at least some of them do. But I'm not sure if sand will be too "soft" for the severum, soft is a bit of a general way to describe sand or gravel IMO ;) hehe. My hubby thinks that I have a fish addiction and I only have a 10 gallon and a 55 gallon (well currently until I get the 125 gallon in 2 weeks). Honestly though, I love to watch my fish, they fascinate me and I find it very calming. He just doesn't understand LOL, I don't think he pays any attention to the fish ;) When I ask which one is his favorite he says, "they're all fish, they all swim, why should I have a favorite?" LOL. My arguments don't go far to convince him otherwise as well ;) BTW Lenny, I loved the fish-neck joke, but I had to explain it to my husband, don't think he enjoyed it quite as much as I did ;) Amber AwlArtist@... <mailto:AwlArtist%40aol.com> wrote: > > > I would look up breeding preferences for your fish, or if that's not > something you wish to do, go with your own preference :) LOL, now I > feel really out of the loop ... python ... yeah, I was thinking a live > snake. > That sounds so cool!! I pull water out with a plastic pitcher, mix it > and put it back the same way. 1/3 gallon every 15 min or so. When I > remember. > I so dream of a 'real house' (I live in a mobile home with NO storage > areas... I ripped out a closet and set up fish tanks...LOL... outside > boards rotted...NOT MY FAULT...lol, it's a 1974 model, so I moved the > two 55 gallon tanks and let hubby fix it, then put the 75 gallon > there. > Anyway, I would love to have a barrel or something OVER the tank > (upstairs), that I could mix my salt water, aerate the water and rig a > drip system to put it back in slowly. With water outlets ran up to it, > so I don't have to carry it. Dreams...lol I have a green bristle > starfish who does not like change. Not fast change anyway. Takes me > all of 2 days to replace the 10-15 gallons when doing partial water > changes. I think about doing a couple gallons a day, but then don't do > it. > Keep an eye out on E Bay, we got a pair of Mowen faucets (used) awhile > back for $15 + $20 shipping. Those tall curvy ones, they were a kit > sink type and a veggie/ bar one, but we put the 'little' one in the > bathroom, and it's so nice! Fit perfect, too! > (Oh, and I have a Ball Python in my bathroom...LOL) Laura in KY > > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 7:47:09 PM Central Standard Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > Would my severum and angel fish prefer sand to gravel, or is it more > my own preference? > > I was thinking "reptiles?" then realized that I mentioned the python, > which is an aquarium hose cleaner that hooks up directly to your > faucet to empty/fill your aquarium, it uses the water pressure to fill > and drain the tank. They can be wonderful if you have the right faucet > hookup, which I currently don't upstairs as it's my bathroom, but the > big tank will be down in the living room so I can hook the python up > to my kitchen faucet. I'm considering switching my bathroom faucet to > one that has a removable threader piece so that I can attach the > python to it, but I think I will need a taller faucet, will have to > cross that bridge later, LOL. > > **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and > all other Holiday needs. Search Now. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?red > ir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?red > ir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from> > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?red > ir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?red > ir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from> > > -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 8:45:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 9:08:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32847	From: bill1433	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?

On this gravel issue I have a question????   Assuming that you are setting up a fresh or new tank here with the hopes of someday adding live plants (as opposed to dead ones????) (sorry I don't know why I wrote that)!   How deep should the gravel be to insure good plant growth?   Bill --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:02 PM An old rule of thumb is 1 pound of gravel per gallon of tank size. This would give you something like 2-3" of gravel. However, as Lenny mentions, there are a number of variables. If you are using a #2 gravel, this would give you less depth than the standard #3 gravel or larger. #1 gravel, just for your information, is similar to the grit used on the floor of bird cages. Also, if you have aquascaping décor that is partially buried, or buried to the bottom of the gravel bed, this will displace a certain amount of the gravel, giving you somewhat of a deeper bed. Also, having a non-standard size tank, puts a kind of twist on this kind of rule. You can try the calculations that Lenny gave you links for, or you can do like I, with my incredibly sharp scientific mind, would do--buy a 50# bag of the stuff, wash it out and put it in the tank. Take a look at the handy work, and mentally calculate how much more you would need to gain your desired effect. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? Hi Lenny, Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need for a 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this baby? Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. Thanks, Steve _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?

If you are seriously planning a nicely planted tank, look at my recent blog on "Planted Tank -..." and follow the directions for substrate in either of those two simple planted tank systems. While some plants will do OK in just a gravel substrate, you have a lot more options if you have a real planted tank substrate. Of course, both of those systems start off with the live plants first and then add the fish. It's a lot tougher going the opposite direction. It's also one of the reasons why I have most of my plants in 2" or 3" clay pots (other containers can also be used) in my goldfish tank so I could provide certain plants with the substrate they need. There are certain plants that get most of their nutrients from the water column and only have minor root systems to anchor the plant... where other plants get the majority of their nutrients from the substrate through their more intricate root structure.. these are the ones that will need a real substrate. This is just in simple terms. More info can be found on my blog and the links on the "Planted Tank - ..." blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? On this gravel issue I have a question???? Assuming that you are setting up a fresh or new tank here with the hopes of someday adding live plants (as opposed to dead ones????) (sorry I don't know why I wrote that)! How deep should the gravel be to insure good plant growth? Bill --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:02 PM An old rule of thumb is 1 pound of gravel per gallon of tank size. This would give you something like 2-3" of gravel. However, as Lenny mentions, there are a number of variables. If you are using a #2 gravel, this would give you less depth than the standard #3 gravel or larger. #1 gravel, just for your information, is similar to the grit used on the floor of bird cages. Also, if you have aquascaping décor that is partially buried, or buried to the bottom of the gravel bed, this will displace a certain amount of the gravel, giving you somewhat of a deeper bed. Also, having a non-standard size tank, puts a kind of twist on this kind of rule. You can try the calculations that Lenny gave you links for, or you can do like I, with my incredibly sharp scientific mind, would do--buy a 50# bag of the stuff, wash it out and put it in the tank. Take a look at the handy work, and mentally calculate how much more you would need to gain your desired effect. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? Hi Lenny, Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need for a 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this baby? Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. Thanks, Steve _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 9:32:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32849	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple questio

Amber, I'd be kind of leery about reusing the sand. It could be coral sand, which will gradually add hardness to your water, and you are talking about keeping fish that come from relatively soft waters. If you can definitively identify the sand as being quartz or a similar material, then you will need to thoroughly clean and disinfect it, if you really must have a sandy bottom. Frankly, for the amount of work involved, it would definitely be less expensive to just go out any buy new stuff. You can utilize the sump as part of your setup, either as an integral part of your filtration, or an ancillary part. You could even be a bit creative, and use it as a separate tank, on the same filters, and plant it and stock it with smaller fish that you might like that would be at risk with your other, larger fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting a 125 gallon in a couple of weeks, just a couple questions. First of all the tank has been run for at least a year as a saltwater tank, it comes with the stand/canopy/light/filter pump/sump and a few odds and ends of tank maintenance stuff for a saltwater (salt mix, etc). Basically I will need to get some gravel for the tank, my question is how much gravel should I need for a 125 gallon tank if I am doing another freshwater tank? I took a quick peek at the tank this afternoon but since I was at work (delivering) I didn't have the chance to examine it. It's VERY dirty, LOL. but thankfully there are no more fish in it and it looks like she even has a python to clean it with, hoping that comes with too, hehe. The tank appears to have a sand mix for saltwater, is it possible to reuse this somehow? The tank is mostly just going to be for my (currently tiny) severum and 2 angel fish, and possibly some bottom feeders later on. My mom has a pictus catfish in a tiny 20 gallon that I want to rescue at some point and throw into the big tank as well, as soon as I figure out how to get him out of the tank without a net, LOL. Any tips? Oh and I'm getting all of this for 250, seemed like a darn good deal to me, hoping I was right ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32850	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?

Bill, The definitive answer is that it depends! Different plants have different needs. You can have live plants (as opposed to plastic, silk or otherwise fake plants) that can be grown with no substrate at all. Think java moss, java fern, water sprite, bladderwort and others. Some plants only have roots that anchor them, while others use roots to provide nourishment. You could terrace your tank when you add plants to provide areas with deeper substrate, plant them in pots that are loosely covered with a hill of substrate, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? On this gravel issue I have a question????   Assuming that you are setting up a fresh or new tank here with the hopes of someday adding live plants (as opposed to dead ones????) (sorry I don't know why I wrote that)!   How deep should the gravel be to insure good plant growth?   Bill --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:02 PM An old rule of thumb is 1 pound of gravel per gallon of tank size. This would give you something like 2-3" of gravel. However, as Lenny mentions, there are a number of variables. If you are using a #2 gravel, this would give you less depth than the standard #3 gravel or larger. #1 gravel, just for your information, is similar to the grit used on the floor of bird cages. Also, if you have aquascaping décor that is partially buried, or buried to the bottom of the gravel bed, this will displace a certain amount of the gravel, giving you somewhat of a deeper bed. Also, having a non-standard size tank, puts a kind of twist on this kind of rule. You can try the calculations that Lenny gave you links for, or you can do like I, with my incredibly sharp scientific mind, would do--buy a 50# bag of the stuff, wash it out and put it in the tank. Take a look at the handy work, and mentally calculate how much more you would need to gain your desired effect. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? Hi Lenny, Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need for a 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this baby? Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32851	From: bill1433	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?

All due respect Lenny (after the trip over to the Blog) and Steve; I think I may wait this out a bit.  You both know about the well water issues here and plants really sound like another whole division of the hobby!    There are some really great looking aquariums on the Group page.  I spend many an hour over there --------------------------------------just dreamin' of the day.  Oh well, maybe later?   Thanks   Bill --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:43 PM Bill, The definitive answer is that it depends! Different plants have different needs. You can have live plants (as opposed to plastic, silk or otherwise fake plants) that can be grown with no substrate at all. Think java moss, java fern, water sprite, bladderwort and others. Some plants only have roots that anchor them, while others use roots to provide nourishment. You could terrace your tank when you add plants to provide areas with deeper substrate, plant them in pots that are loosely covered with a hill of substrate, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? On this gravel issue I have a question????   Assuming that you are setting up a fresh or new tank here with the hopes of someday adding live plants (as opposed to dead ones????) (sorry I don't know why I wrote that)!   How deep should the gravel be to insure good plant growth?   Bill --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:02 PM An old rule of thumb is 1 pound of gravel per gallon of tank size. This would give you something like 2-3" of gravel. However, as Lenny mentions, there are a number of variables. If you are using a #2 gravel, this would give you less depth than the standard #3 gravel or larger. #1 gravel, just for your information, is similar to the grit used on the floor of bird cages. Also, if you have aquascaping décor that is partially buried, or buried to the bottom of the gravel bed, this will displace a certain amount of the gravel, giving you somewhat of a deeper bed. Also, having a non-standard size tank, puts a kind of twist on this kind of rule. You can try the calculations that Lenny gave you links for, or you can do like I, with my incredibly sharp scientific mind, would do--buy a 50# bag of the stuff, wash it out and put it in the tank. Take a look at the handy work, and mentally calculate how much more you would need to gain your desired effect. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? Hi Lenny, Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need for a 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this baby? Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Amber, The best way to cycle a tank is with no fish, using ammonia from a bottle. All fish are affected by an amount of ammonia. How toxic it is to the fish will vary on several factors, water hardness, pH and, even, temperature. Lisa, don't try to shorten the period needed for the cycle to establish itself. Done properly, a fishless cycle will enable you to add fish to the tank's capacity right away with no ill effects. If you use fish to start the cycle, every time you add more fish, you will have what is known as a mini-cycle while the bacteria population adjusts to handle the new load. Amber, explain more about this madaka--there is no such common name listed in fishbase.org. Do you mean medeka? A medeka is not related to discus at all. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL Okay, this may sound like a noobie question for everyone ;) Has anyone ever cycled a tank with a betta? I have heard that the ammonia doesn't bother them as much as it does other fish, and was wondering if this would actually work and not cause stress on the fish as much as it would "regular" freshwater fish. Is a madaka a discus? I did a search on google and it was the only fish related name that came up ;) Lisa wrote: > > Well good news all. > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I can > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > Then my LFS says 3 - 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to do 2 > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually build > up stock over time. > > Lisa (Australia) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32853	From: Lisa	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Madaka is kinda like a see through danio. Also know as a 'Rice fish' It was developed in Asia somewhere for scientists to study the digestive process and also the organs of the fish. The heart, stomach, liver, etc... They're cool looking little guys Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Okay, this may sound like a noobie question for everyone ;) Has anyone > ever cycled a tank with a betta? I have heard that the ammonia doesn't > bother them as much as it does other fish, and was wondering if this > would actually work and not cause stress on the fish as much as it would > "regular" freshwater fish. > > Is a madaka a discus? I did a search on google and it was the only fish > related name that came up ;) > > Lisa wrote: > > > > Well good news all. > > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I can > > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > > Then my LFS says 3 – 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to do 2 > > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually build > > up stock over time. > > > > Lisa (Australia) > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32854	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

I was asking Lisa what it was as she mentioned it (madakas). I already knew what the best way to cycle a tank is, I was just curious, I almost feel like I was attacked for my question. I was only told second hand that bettas are not usually affected by ammonia, which is why they can sit in bowls of water and have their water changed completely without noticeable affects. Both of my current tanks are already cycled for the fish I have in there, and I'm going to try my hand at a fish-less cycle this next time (I learned the hard way a few months ago). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > The best way to cycle a tank is with no fish, using ammonia from a > bottle. > > All fish are affected by an amount of ammonia. How toxic it is to the > fish will vary on several factors, water hardness, pH and, even, > temperature. > > Lisa, don't try to shorten the period needed for the cycle to establish > itself. Done properly, a fishless cycle will enable you to add fish to > the tank's capacity right away with no ill effects. If you use fish to > start the cycle, every time you add more fish, you will have what is > known as a mini-cycle while the bacteria population adjusts to handle > the new load. > > Amber, explain more about this madaka--there is no such common name > listed in fishbase.org. Do you mean medeka? A medeka is not related to > discus at all. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL > > Okay, this may sound like a noobie question for everyone ;) Has anyone > ever cycled a tank with a betta? I have heard that the ammonia doesn't > bother them as much as it does other fish, and was wondering if this > would actually work and not cause stress on the fish as much as it would > > "regular" freshwater fish. > > Is a madaka a discus? I did a search on google and it was the only fish > related name that came up ;) > > Lisa wrote: > > > > Well good news all. > > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I can > > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > > Then my LFS says 3 - 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to do > 2 > > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually > build > > up stock over time. > > > > Lisa (Australia) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32855	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?

Gosh according to the math I'm going to need a lot of sand... over 130 lbs if my dimensions of the 125 gallon tank were right... that seems like a lot to me. I hope the LFS can order me some if I can't find any in town. The shipping to order that much sand would be more than it would cost for just the sand I'm sure ;) Amber bill1433 wrote: > > All due respect Lenny (after the trip over to the Blog) and Steve; I > think I may wait this out > a bit. You both know about the well water issues here and plants > really sound like another whole division of the hobby! > > There are some really great looking aquariums on the Group page. I > spend many an hour over there > --------------------------------------just dreamin' of the day. Oh > well, maybe later? > > Thanks > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:43 PM > > Bill, > > The definitive answer is that it depends! > > Different plants have different needs. You can have live plants (as > opposed to plastic, silk or otherwise fake plants) that can be grown > with no substrate at all. Think java moss, java fern, water sprite, > bladderwort and others. Some plants only have roots that anchor them, > while others use roots to provide nourishment. > > You could terrace your tank when you add plants to provide areas with > deeper substrate, plant them in pots that are loosely covered with a > hill of substrate, etc. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? > > On this gravel issue I have a question???? > > Assuming that you are setting up a fresh or new tank here with the > hopes of > someday adding live plants (as opposed to dead ones????) (sorry I > don't know why I > wrote that)! > > How deep should the gravel be to insure good plant growth? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:02 PM > > An old rule of thumb is 1 pound of gravel per gallon of tank size. > This would give you something like 2-3" of gravel. However, as Lenny > mentions, there are a number of variables. If you are using a #2 > gravel, this would give you less depth than the standard #3 gravel or > larger. #1 gravel, just for your information, is similar to the grit > used on the floor of bird cages. Also, if you have aquascaping décor > that is partially buried, or buried to the bottom of the gravel bed, > this will displace a certain amount of the gravel, giving you somewhat > of a deeper bed. > > Also, having a non-standard size tank, puts a kind of twist on this > kind of rule. > > You can try the calculations that Lenny gave you links for, or you can > do like I, with my incredibly sharp scientific mind, would do--buy a > 50# bag of the stuff, wash it out and put it in the tank. Take a look > at the handy work, and mentally calculate how much more you would need > to gain your desired effect. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? > > Hi Lenny, > > Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need > for a > 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a > formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this > baby? > > Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. > > Thanks, Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32856	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

As \\Steve// pointed out, it is Medaka (with an "e") or Ricefish or Oryzias latipes (Japanese rice fish). http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4669 I'm not sure if the Medaka was ever a see-through fish unless there was some genetic engineering done to make them clear BUT they were the first genetically engineered fish to have the "glo" genes added to them which later led to the GloFish (t) Zebra Danio's being genetically engineered that are now sold in the USA and other areas. More info and articles from the Wall Street Journal posted here: http://www.mongabay.com/external/glowing_fish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL Madaka is kinda like a see through danio. Also know as a 'Rice fish' It was developed in Asia somewhere for scientists to study the digestive process and also the organs of the fish. The heart, stomach, liver, etc... They're cool looking little guys Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Okay, this may sound like a noobie question for everyone ;) Has anyone > ever cycled a tank with a betta? I have heard that the ammonia doesn't > bother them as much as it does other fish, and was wondering if this > would actually work and not cause stress on the fish as much as it would > "regular" freshwater fish. > > Is a madaka a discus? I did a search on google and it was the only fish > related name that came up ;) > > Lisa wrote: > > > > Well good news all. > > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I can > > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > > Then my LFS says 3 - 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to do 2 > > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually build > > up stock over time. > > > > Lisa (Australia) > > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 10:45:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Bettas still have gills and do some of their breathing via their gills so any ammonia/nitrite in the water will also make it's way into the bloodstream of the Betta. Yes, they are labyrinth fish, meaning they are also able to take in a breath of air from the surface but they are still submerged in the water with the ammonia and nitrites in the water (if not cycled) and they get both the ammonia and nitrites into their bloodstream (and all organs) via Osmoregulation as well. Here's more info on Osmoregulation (mainly pertaining to salt but it explains the process)... http://groups.msn.com/Breedingtropicalfish/osmoregulation.msnw Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL I was asking Lisa what it was as she mentioned it (madakas). I already knew what the best way to cycle a tank is, I was just curious, I almost feel like I was attacked for my question. I was only told second hand that bettas are not usually affected by ammonia, which is why they can sit in bowls of water and have their water changed completely without noticeable affects. Both of my current tanks are already cycled for the fish I have in there, and I'm going to try my hand at a fish-less cycle this next time (I learned the hard way a few months ago). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > The best way to cycle a tank is with no fish, using ammonia from a > bottle. > > All fish are affected by an amount of ammonia. How toxic it is to the > fish will vary on several factors, water hardness, pH and, even, > temperature. > > Lisa, don't try to shorten the period needed for the cycle to > establish itself. Done properly, a fishless cycle will enable you to > add fish to the tank's capacity right away with no ill effects. If you > use fish to start the cycle, every time you add more fish, you will > have what is known as a mini-cycle while the bacteria population > adjusts to handle the new load. > > Amber, explain more about this madaka--there is no such common name > listed in fishbase.org. Do you mean medeka? A medeka is not related to > discus at all. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL > > Okay, this may sound like a noobie question for everyone ;) Has anyone > ever cycled a tank with a betta? I have heard that the ammonia doesn't > bother them as much as it does other fish, and was wondering if this > would actually work and not cause stress on the fish as much as it > would > > "regular" freshwater fish. > > Is a madaka a discus? I did a search on google and it was the only > fish related name that came up ;) > > Lisa wrote: > > > > Well good news all. > > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I can > > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > > Then my LFS says 3 - 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to > > do > 2 > > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually > build > > up stock over time. > > > > Lisa (Australia) > > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 10:31:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 10:52:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32858	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Python Vac/Hose

I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase I have 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... Blessings Dr.Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32859	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

Do you have one of the aerators that screw into the inside of the spout or on the outside? Did you unscrew the aerator? The included brass adaptor will work with most common faucet spouts to screw onto or into the existing threads for the aerators but I did have to buy a 2nd adaptor to get my Python to work on my bathroom faucet when I moved after Katrina. My older faucets had the aerators that screwed into the inside of the spout but my new one had the aerator that screwed onto the outside of the spout. A small mom/pop or Ace hardware or plumbing supply outlet should have the adaptor for a couple of dollars. Just bring the aerator and the Python siphon valve (the green plastic thingy that is supposed to screw on the spout) and the brass adaptor and explain to your hardware/plumbing store that you need the brass thing to screw onto the spout. The green siphon valve will screw onto an outside type garden hose spigot without the brass adaptor. The brass adaptor is needed and will fit most indoor faucet spouts... but there are exceptions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase I have 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... Blessings Dr.Craft _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/11/2008 11:06:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32860	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

I cheat when setting up new tanks, but only can when you have healthy tanks already there, or someone you REALLY trust. I use a dirty filter or media, depending on the filter being used in the old tank and I just toss it in the tank, after putting treated water in and what I was taking out during a regular water change. This way, you have a jump start with the helpful bacterias. A Betta really does not like a lot of water movement, if you can set up the filter so that it's not real forceful, he would be happier. If you use females, 4 or more will keep them from 'hen-pecking' each other. I have bred Betta's a few times, lol, and love them :) Laura in KY In a message dated 11/11/2008 8:44:59 PM Central Standard Time, amber@... writes: Okay, this may sound like a noobie question for everyone ;) Has anyone ever cycled a tank with a betta? I have heard that the ammonia doesn't bother them as much as it does other fish, and was wondering if this would actually work and not cause stress on the fish as much as it would "regular" freshwater fish. **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32861	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

I have a single male in a 10 gallon (now by himself my weak gourami's didn't make it, not getting more until they get a batch that actually looks healthy), and I have 1 female in my 55 gallon with other various fish. I was going to get more, but had heard that if they are not from the same batch of babies that they will kill each other, not sure how true this is or not. They have some young females at the fish store right now and I have an older female (full size about 2 1/2 inches). Amber AwlArtist@... wrote: > > > I cheat when setting up new tanks, but only can when you have healthy > tanks > already there, or someone you REALLY trust. > I use a dirty filter or media, depending on the filter being used in > the old > tank and I just toss it in the tank, after putting treated water in > and what I > was taking out during a regular water change. > This way, you have a jump start with the helpful bacterias. > A Betta really does not like a lot of water movement, if you can set > up the > filter so that it's not real forceful, he would be happier. > If you use females, 4 or more will keep them from 'hen-pecking' each > other. > I have bred Betta's a few times, lol, and love them :) > Laura in KY > > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 8:44:59 PM Central Standard Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > Okay, this may sound like a noobie question for everyone ;) Has anyone > ever cycled a tank with a betta? I have heard that the ammonia doesn't > bother them as much as it does other fish, and was wondering if this > would actually work and not cause stress on the fish as much as it would > "regular" freshwater fish. > > **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and > all other > Holiday needs. Search Now. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from> > -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32862	From: Lisa	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Mine are see through... Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > As \\Steve// pointed out, it is Medaka (with an "e") or Ricefish or Oryzias > latipes (Japanese rice fish). > http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4669 > > I'm not sure if the Medaka was ever a see-through fish unless there was some > genetic engineering done to make them clear BUT they were the first > genetically engineered fish to have the "glo" genes added to them which > later led to the GloFish (t) Zebra Danio's being genetically engineered that > are now sold in the USA and other areas. > > More info and articles from the Wall Street Journal posted here: > http://www.mongabay.com/external/glowing_fish.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL > > Madaka is kinda like a see through danio. Also know as a 'Rice fish' > It was developed in Asia somewhere for scientists to study the digestive > process and also the organs of the fish. The heart, stomach, liver, etc... > They're cool looking little guys > > Lisa > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Okay, this may sound like a noobie question for everyone ;) Has > anyone > > ever cycled a tank with a betta? I have heard that the ammonia > doesn't > > bother them as much as it does other fish, and was wondering if > this > > would actually work and not cause stress on the fish as much as it > would > > "regular" freshwater fish. > > > > Is a madaka a discus? I did a search on google and it was the only > fish > > related name that came up ;) > > > > Lisa wrote: > > > > > > Well good news all. > > > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I > can > > > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > > > Then my LFS says 3 - 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going > to do 2 > > > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually > build > > > up stock over time. > > > > > > Lisa (Australia) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 > Tested on: 11/11/2008 10:45:38 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32863	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

I have the same problem and thought I was the only other person on the planet. Everyone else seems to screw the Python into every faucet in the house!! I use my laundry sink which has a faucet more like an outside hose faucet with exposed threads. It means I have to attach the Python downstairs and run it upstairs, but it works great. I figured that was just temporary and I’d either figure it out or buy a new faucet for the closest bathroom, but that was 3 years ago _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase I have 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... Blessings Dr.Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32864	From: John	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: FREE Malaysian Trumpet Snails (So. CA)

This offer is for pick-up only in Orange County (Westminster), CA: FREE Malaysian Trumpet Snails, freshwater, algae & scavenge feeding, great cleaners! Stay small (1-1.25" x .25" shell) & won't harm plants! P/U near Beach Bl. & Garden Grove Bl. (or 22 Fwy.) Please e-mail me directly if interested at: doctor34@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32865	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?

Hi Steve (Biondi), In reading this thread, I seemed to recall a general rule of thumb for planted tanks (plants needing substrate for both anchorage and nutrition) of 2 1/2 pounds of the then (55+ years ago) almost universally used # 3 commercial aquarium gravel per gallon. This would ensure a good depth for the plants and allow for sloping of the gravel down from back to front. This sloping not only shows off your aquascaping better, but allows for any debris that has not been removed with your previous PWC to accumulate towards the front so that its easily removed in one shot next time. They even used to make semi-circular 3/4"-high rigid plastic gravel guards to be placed up against the front glass to allow for any accumulation of debris for easy collection. To get a better idea of what I'm referring to as "gravel guards," just picture those 4" high flexible lawn guards used in your outdoor landscaping to prevent grass from growing past a certain point. Gravel near the front of the tank needn't be exceptionally deep, when proper aquascaping calls for using smaller plants (Micro-Sagittaria, Hairgrass, Pygmy Chain Sword, etc) in that location. The portion between the gravel guard and the front glass was left bare, with 3/4" of gravel starting at the very border of this guard, soon to be 1" as it slopes up towards the rear, ending in a depth of perhaps 3" at the rear. Still, this method of calculating the amount of gravel needed was not accurate, as a result of various grades (grits) of gravel/sand sizes, nor could it be applied to all shaped tanks, as \\Steve// points out. Lenny's linked formula surprisingly comes out fairly accurately even though (and as a result of) its noit being based on pounds per gallon but instead area, although chopping off the last number as your answer after you find your square inches does not seem very mathematical. This link has a ten gallon tank as needing 20 pounds od sand -- 2 pounds per gallon, yet a 55 gallon tank needs only 62 pounds of sand -- 1.18 pounds per gallon, but we're reminded that the area is better to figure on that the tank capacity. In browsing an excellent book of the day, "Aquarium Highlights" (a compilation of the best and most useful articles from "The Aquarium" magazine from 1932 through 1951) by William T. Innes, just such an article appears which follows a more mathematical formula, which may be of use to you. It states that a pound of silica sand (yes, finer and more compact than gravel) measures 18.5 cubic inches. This will cover an area of 18.5" x 18.5" to a depth of 1" -- or 18.5" x 9.25" to a depth of 2". The sand requirements for any size tank would be as follows: simply multiply the length by the width and divide by 18.5. A ten gallon tank (10" x 20") has a bottom area of 200 Square Inches. Divide this by 18.5 and the result is 10.8 pounds of sand -- to cover a depth of 1". The 20 pounds of sand for a 2" depth in a 10 gallon tank that Lenny's link suggests is quite close. Closer yet is the 55 gallon tank with a 12" x 48" footprint, figuring out to 576 Square Inches. When divided by 18.5, it comes out to 31.1 pounds of sand for a 1" depth. Almost right on that same money, is Lenny's link suggesting 62 pounds for a 2" depth in a 55 gallon tank. By this, you can see that it will take 55 pounds of sand to cover your tank's bottom to a depth of 1", or 110 pounds of sand to cover the bottom to a depth of 2". Increasingly large grades of gravel will result in slightly deeper substrates, but will not be varying by much and will get you more precise than just being in the ball park. You should be able to get a fairly good idea from this calculation. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > An old rule of thumb is 1 pound of gravel per gallon of tank size. This would give you something like 2-3" of gravel. However, as Lenny mentions, there are a number of variables. If you are using a #2 gravel, this would give you less depth than the standard #3 gravel or larger. #1 gravel, just for your information, is similar to the grit used on the floor of bird cages. Also, if you have aquascaping décor that is partially buried, or buried to the bottom of the gravel bed, this will displace a certain amount of the gravel, giving you somewhat of a deeper bed. > > Also, having a non-standard size tank, puts a kind of twist on this kind of rule. > > You can try the calculations that Lenny gave you links for, or you can do like I, with my incredibly sharp scientific mind, would do-- buy a 50# bag of the stuff, wash it out and put it in the tank. Take a look at the handy work, and mentally calculate how much more you would need to gain your desired effect. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? > > Hi Lenny, > > Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need for a > 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a > formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this > baby? > > Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. > > Thanks, Steve > > _____ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32866	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?

I don't know what the dimensions of your 125 gallon tank are, as I don't see them in this thread, although you may have mentioned what they are under another subject line (which I may have missed or may have dismissed, not being pertinent to anything immediate at the time). If your 125 gallon tank is 72" long x 18" wide, which I seem to vaguely recall as being your tank's size, you'll need 70 pounds of substrate as sand, for a 1" depth, or 140 pounds of sand for a 2" depth, going by the formula I just presented. As stated, this is for sand. You would not need quite as much for these depths if you are going to use gravel, but again as \\Steve// points out, this too will vary slightly depending upon the size gravel used. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Gosh according to the math I'm going to need a lot of sand... over 130 > lbs if my dimensions of the 125 gallon tank were right... that seems > like a lot to me. I hope the LFS can order me some if I can't find any > in town. The shipping to order that much sand would be more than it > would cost for just the sand I'm sure ;) > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > > > > All due respect Lenny (after the trip over to the Blog) and Steve; I > > think I may wait this out > > a bit. You both know about the well water issues here and plants > > really sound like another whole division of the hobby! > > > > There are some really great looking aquariums on the Group page. I > > spend many an hour over there > > --------------------------------------just dreamin' of the day. Oh > > well, maybe later? > > > > Thanks > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:43 PM > > > > Bill, > > > > The definitive answer is that it depends! > > > > Different plants have different needs. You can have live plants (as > > opposed to plastic, silk or otherwise fake plants) that can be grown > > with no substrate at all. Think java moss, java fern, water sprite, > > bladderwort and others. Some plants only have roots that anchor them, > > while others use roots to provide nourishment. > > > > You could terrace your tank when you add plants to provide areas with > > deeper substrate, plant them in pots that are loosely covered with a > > hill of substrate, etc. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > > com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? > > > > On this gravel issue I have a question???? > > > > Assuming that you are setting up a fresh or new tank here with the > > hopes of > > someday adding live plants (as opposed to dead ones????) (sorry I > > don't know why I > > wrote that)! > > > > How deep should the gravel be to insure good plant growth? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:02 PM > > > > An old rule of thumb is 1 pound of gravel per gallon of tank size. > > This would give you something like 2-3" of gravel. However, as Lenny > > mentions, there are a number of variables. If you are using a #2 > > gravel, this would give you less depth than the standard #3 gravel or > > larger. #1 gravel, just for your information, is similar to the grit > > used on the floor of bird cages. Also, if you have aquascaping décor > > that is partially buried, or buried to the bottom of the gravel bed, > > this will displace a certain amount of the gravel, giving you somewhat > > of a deeper bed. > > > > Also, having a non-standard size tank, puts a kind of twist on this > > kind of rule. > > > > You can try the calculations that Lenny gave you links for, or you can > > do like I, with my incredibly sharp scientific mind, would do-- buy a > > 50# bag of the stuff, wash it out and put it in the tank. Take a look > > at the handy work, and mentally calculate how much more you would need > > to gain your desired effect. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > > com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need > > for a > > 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a > > formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this > > baby? > > > > Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. > > > > Thanks, Steve > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32867	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

I did not have a bit of trouble keeping the females together. My first hatch was 200+, 20 gallon tank. As the males matured and started flaring at each other (they mature a few at a time, even though they are the same age) I had to remove them to their own jar. I had jars of male Betta's everywhere! They started going to new homes as soon as they would eat something other than freshly hatched baby brine shrimp! The females all got moved to the 55 gallon, and they lived peacably for 3 years. My little sister kept 2 of the 3 I gave her for better than 4 years. I didn't think a Betta lived much past 3 years. Laura in KY In a message dated 11/11/2008 11:16:58 PM Central Standard Time, amber@... writes: I have a single male in a 10 gallon (now by himself my weak gourami's didn't make it, not getting more until they get a batch that actually looks healthy), and I have 1 female in my 55 gallon with other various fish. I was going to get more, but had heard that if they are not from the same batch of babies that they will kill each other, not sure how true this is or not. They have some young females at the fish store right now and I have an older female (full size about 2 1/2 inches). Amber **************Get movies delivered to your mailbox. One month free from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32868	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need!

In formulating my plans to setup a new tank, hopefully soon, I also found that I will most probably need a gravel washer. � Now I�ve just read some of the comments from members about the Python just posted.� I assume this unit cleans and fills at the same time.. �This is a very nice feature but useless to me as my water must be �doctored� first. � Mechanically I also assume that the gravel is picked up inside of a large diameter plastic tube BUT not removed from the tank while in the siphoning process.� To that end, I must also conclude that the greater the diameter of the siphoning hose itself the more gravel will be lifted and thus cleaned.� A good working diameter for the hose would be � I.D.?� Now for my question.� Is there such a thing or must they all come with the �fill� feature? � I know your asking yourselves:� �Hey Bill, if you use to be in the hobby 30 years ago, how did you do it back then�?� Simple, a large diameter hose, 1 �� ID, a large cooking colander to catch the siphoned gravel, and then take it outside use a garden hose and rise it.� Now what�s wrong with this picture?� �Yo Bill!� You�ve just killed off all of your good nitrifying bacteria!� Correct!� Even�when I make a mistake, I try not to make the same one twice! � Inquiring mind here needs to know????? � Bill � � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32869	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Cycling a tank takes at least 4 weeks -- and quite often, up to 5 or 6 weeks. You will not be gaining anything by adding your fish after the 2nd week, except to subject these fish to the high stress of cycling, being in the middle of it, and increasing the workload for yourself as you'll need to monitor the water parameters and make increasingly large partial water changes to prevent poisoning your fish from high ammonia and nitrite levels. Actually, if you are going to add fish mid-cycle, why are you bothering to fish-less cycle this tank at all? You might just as well add them from the beginning if you don't mind subjecting them to these stresses. On average, your ammonia will peak at around 10 days, and your nitrite will peak somewhere around 20 days into the cycle. At 2 weeks, your fish will be caught right in the middle of this cycle, still looking forward to the nitrite yet spiking. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Well good news all. > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I can > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > Then my LFS says 3 – 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to do 2 > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually build > up stock over time. > > Lisa (Australia) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32870	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Could they be albino's? Usually accompanied by a pink/red eye. If not, do they look exactly like the pictures on the Fishbase page? I'm wondering if you didn't get some kind of "glass fish" (many species use that common name) that were inadvertently sold as Medaka's. Or you could do a Google Image search for Medaka or Ricefish and see if there might be clear ones out there but normally Fishbase would have photos of the various types. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL Mine are see through... Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > As \\Steve// pointed out, it is Medaka (with an "e") or Ricefish or Oryzias > latipes (Japanese rice fish). > http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4669 > <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4669> > > I'm not sure if the Medaka was ever a see-through fish unless there was some > genetic engineering done to make them clear BUT they were the first > genetically engineered fish to have the "glo" genes added to them which > later led to the GloFish (t) Zebra Danio's being genetically engineered that > are now sold in the USA and other areas. > > More info and articles from the Wall Street Journal posted here: > http://www.mongabay.com/external/glowing_fish.htm > <http://www.mongabay.com/external/glowing_fish.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL > > Madaka is kinda like a see through danio. Also know as a 'Rice fish' > It was developed in Asia somewhere for scientists to study the digestive > process and also the organs of the fish. The heart, stomach, liver, etc... > They're cool looking little guys > > Lisa > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Okay, this may sound like a noobie question for everyone ;) Has > anyone > > ever cycled a tank with a betta? I have heard that the ammonia > doesn't > > bother them as much as it does other fish, and was wondering if > this > > would actually work and not cause stress on the fish as much as it > would > > "regular" freshwater fish. > > > > Is a madaka a discus? I did a search on google and it was the only > fish > > related name that came up ;) > > > > Lisa wrote: > > > > > > Well good news all. > > > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I > can > > > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > > > Then my LFS says 3 - 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going > to do 2 > > > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually > build > > > up stock over time. > > > > > > Lisa (Australia) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081111-0, 11/11/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 9:09:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32871	From: lizkakot	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Evil Cichlids

I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, with my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 gallon tank. Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict Cichlid and it is attacking it's brothers. What do I do? I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my gourami, and the shark attacks them! :(

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32872	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 fish, give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a bioload for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will grow to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, with > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 gallon tank. > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict Cichlid > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > What do I do? > I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32873	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Is this a situation where that One and Only might help? � Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 10:08 AM Cycling a tank takes at least 4 weeks -- and quite often, up to 5 or 6 weeks. You will not be gaining anything by adding your fish after the 2nd week, except to subject these fish to the high stress of cycling, being in the middle of it, and increasing the workload for yourself as you'll need to monitor the water parameters and make increasingly large partial water changes to prevent poisoning your fish from high ammonia and nitrite levels. Actually, if you are going to add fish mid-cycle, why are you bothering to fish-less cycle this tank at all? You might just as well add them from the beginning if you don't mind subjecting them to these stresses. On average, your ammonia will peak at around 10 days, and your nitrite will peak somewhere around 20 days into the cycle. At 2 weeks, your fish will be caught right in the middle of this cycle, still looking forward to the nitrite yet spiking. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@ ...> wrote: > > Well good news all. > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I can > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > Then my LFS says 3 � 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to do 2 > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually build > up stock over time. > > Lisa (Australia) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32874	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Yes, definitely -- either "BioSpira" or "Dr Tim's One and Only" bacterial supplement products. If it can't be found locally, an internet supply house such as Drs Foster & Smith sould carry it. The fish can then be safely introduced the next day. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Is this a situation where that One and Only might help? >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 10:08 AM > > > > > > > Cycling a tank takes at least 4 weeks -- and quite often, up to 5 or > 6 weeks. You will not be gaining anything by adding your fish after > the 2nd week, except to subject these fish to the high stress of > cycling, being in the middle of it, and increasing the workload for > yourself as you'll need to monitor the water parameters and make > increasingly large partial water changes to prevent poisoning your > fish from high ammonia and nitrite levels. > > Actually, if you are going to add fish mid-cycle, why are you > bothering to fish-less cycle this tank at all? You might just as > well add them from the beginning if you don't mind subjecting them to > these stresses. On average, your ammonia will peak at around 10 > days, and your nitrite will peak somewhere around 20 days into the > cycle. At 2 weeks, your fish will be caught right in the middle of > this cycle, still looking forward to the nitrite yet spiking. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@ ...> > wrote: > > > > Well good news all. > > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I > can > > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > > Then my LFS says 3 – 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to > do 2 > > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually > build > > up stock over time. > > > > Lisa (Australia) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32875	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great holes in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids I used to have. Eric Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 fish, > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a bioload > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will grow > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, with > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 gallon > tank. > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict Cichlid > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > What do I do? > > I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32876	From: danf2346	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Thanks all:)

I am so happy with my 20 gallon tank! This is the biggest tank I have had so far. Key word (so far:) Largest I would probably go would be with a 40. I would love to go even larger, but I am in a wheelchair and need some help with water changes... Anyways... My 20g is a community tank with lots of hiding spots and live plants. I had asked about adding african dwarf frogs. I just added 3 frogs this past weekend, and I am happy to say that everyone is getting along great. When I feed the fish, I simultaneously drop either a shrimp pellet or a hakari sinking wafers in for the frogs. I was originally concerned with getting enough food for the frogs, because the fish dont let much food fall to the floor. But adding the pellets or wafers at the same time did the trick. Thanks to everyone that helped me put together such a fantastic home for our little friends:) Dan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

I just took some pics of my Python Siphon Valve (the green plastic thing that attaches to the faucet) including close-ups of the adaptors (the brass one that comes with the Python and the chrome adaptor that I had to buy) to make it work with my new bathroom faucet from Price Pfister (also some pics of it) and some older pics of my Python Siphon Valve with the little piece that keeps breaking, which is the threaded venturi funnel. I've had three of these pieces split at the top thread over the past five years and have complained to Python about this issue. I'm not sure if they've started making this piece stronger on the newer models but they really should make it in brass as it's a weak spot of the entire system. I have been able to repair them for a while using Super Glue for plastics or a similar glue. Note that waterbeds use a similar Siphon Valve for filling and emptying them and I've found them online but they appear to be plastic also. The photos are in my Webshots online album here... http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy Once again, the little chrome adaptor is likely the one most people will need for some faucet spouts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose I have the same problem and thought I was the only other person on the planet. Everyone else seems to screw the Python into every faucet in the house!! I use my laundry sink which has a faucet more like an outside hose faucet with exposed threads. It means I have to attach the Python downstairs and run it upstairs, but it works great. I figured that was just temporary and I'd either figure it out or buy a new faucet for the closest bathroom, but that was 3 years ago. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is it possible that they only fit certain faucets (which would be kinda weird)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out because I have 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... Blessings Dr.Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 11:07:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: How much gravel?

Ray said: "...Lenny's linked formula surprisingly comes out fairly accurately..." What do you mean by "surprisingly"? LOL Have I ever lied to you or made a mistake in the past... OK.. don't answer that. LOL The chopping off of the last number is a way to make the figure a very close approximation of 1/10th of the total which is what the formula calls for, without going through that extra mathematical step. For example, 1/10th of 100 is 10... thus chopping off the last figure, the 0, gives you the 1/10th figure. 1/10th of 105 would technically be 10.5 but simply chopping off the 5 still gives you 10 which for the purposes of gravel computation, is accurate enough. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How much gravel? Hi Steve (Biondi), In reading this thread, I seemed to recall a general rule of thumb for planted tanks (plants needing substrate for both anchorage and nutrition) of 2 1/2 pounds of the then (55+ years ago) almost universally used # 3 commercial aquarium gravel per gallon. This would ensure a good depth for the plants and allow for sloping of the gravel down from back to front. This sloping not only shows off your aquascaping better, but allows for any debris that has not been removed with your previous PWC to accumulate towards the front so that its easily removed in one shot next time. They even used to make semi-circular 3/4"-high rigid plastic gravel guards to be placed up against the front glass to allow for any accumulation of debris for easy collection. To get a better idea of what I'm referring to as "gravel guards," just picture those 4" high flexible lawn guards used in your outdoor landscaping to prevent grass from growing past a certain point. Gravel near the front of the tank needn't be exceptionally deep, when proper aquascaping calls for using smaller plants (Micro-Sagittaria, Hairgrass, Pygmy Chain Sword, etc) in that location. The portion between the gravel guard and the front glass was left bare, with 3/4" of gravel starting at the very border of this guard, soon to be 1" as it slopes up towards the rear, ending in a depth of perhaps 3" at the rear. Still, this method of calculating the amount of gravel needed was not accurate, as a result of various grades (grits) of gravel/sand sizes, nor could it be applied to all shaped tanks, as \\Steve// points out. Lenny's linked formula surprisingly comes out fairly accurately even though (and as a result of) its noit being based on pounds per gallon but instead area, although chopping off the last number as your answer after you find your square inches does not seem very mathematical. This link has a ten gallon tank as needing 20 pounds od sand -- 2 pounds per gallon, yet a 55 gallon tank needs only 62 pounds of sand -- 1.18 pounds per gallon, but we're reminded that the area is better to figure on that the tank capacity. In browsing an excellent book of the day, "Aquarium Highlights" (a compilation of the best and most useful articles from "The Aquarium" magazine from 1932 through 1951) by William T. Innes, just such an article appears which follows a more mathematical formula, which may be of use to you. It states that a pound of silica sand (yes, finer and more compact than gravel) measures 18.5 cubic inches. This will cover an area of 18.5" x 18.5" to a depth of 1" -- or 18.5" x 9.25" to a depth of 2". The sand requirements for any size tank would be as follows: simply multiply the length by the width and divide by 18.5. A ten gallon tank (10" x 20") has a bottom area of 200 Square Inches. Divide this by 18.5 and the result is 10.8 pounds of sand -- to cover a depth of 1". The 20 pounds of sand for a 2" depth in a 10 gallon tank that Lenny's link suggests is quite close. Closer yet is the 55 gallon tank with a 12" x 48" footprint, figuring out to 576 Square Inches. When divided by 18.5, it comes out to 31.1 pounds of sand for a 1" depth. Almost right on that same money, is Lenny's link suggesting 62 pounds for a 2" depth in a 55 gallon tank. By this, you can see that it will take 55 pounds of sand to cover your tank's bottom to a depth of 1", or 110 pounds of sand to cover the bottom to a depth of 2". Increasingly large grades of gravel will result in slightly deeper substrates, but will not be varying by much and will get you more precise than just being in the ball park. You should be able to get a fairly good idea from this calculation. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > An old rule of thumb is 1 pound of gravel per gallon of tank size. This would give you something like 2-3" of gravel. However, as Lenny mentions, there are a number of variables. If you are using a #2 gravel, this would give you less depth than the standard #3 gravel or larger. #1 gravel, just for your information, is similar to the grit used on the floor of bird cages. Also, if you have aquascaping décor that is partially buried, or buried to the bottom of the gravel bed, this will displace a certain amount of the gravel, giving you somewhat of a deeper bed. > > Also, having a non-standard size tank, puts a kind of twist on this kind of rule. > > You can try the calculations that Lenny gave you links for, or you can do like I, with my incredibly sharp scientific mind, would do-- buy a 50# bag of the stuff, wash it out and put it in the tank. Take a look at the handy work, and mentally calculate how much more you would need to gain your desired effect. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] How much gravel? > > Hi Lenny, > > Would you happen to know how to calculate how much gravel I would need for a > 100 gallon tank? Footprint is 48 x 21,not your standard size. Is there a > formula that you could share to figure out the number of pounds for this > baby? > > Guessing that 2 inches would be enough too. > > Thanks, Steve > > _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 11:29:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32879	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need!

They sell basic gravel vacuum siphons with various sized gravel vacuum tubes, which is the larger 1" to 3" diameter tube connected to a smaller diameter drain hose which is based on the size of the siphon tube. The size you need is usually dependent on your tank size. I would get the size larger than suggested on the packaging to give you more options on tank sizes should you get a larger tank. The larger diameter gravel siphon tube allows you to clean larger sections faster and it will suck up the water and detritus without sucking up the actual gravel. Here's DrsFosterSmith.com page on the brand they carry... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3728+3889 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3728+3889&pca tid=3889> &pcatid=3889 I have a page on my blog on "How-To Start Your Gravel Vacuum" which includes a link to a YouTube video showing the process. While at that YouTube page, you'll likely see other videos related to gravel vacuuming. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need! In formulating my plans to setup a new tank, hopefully soon, I also found that I will most probably need a gravel washer. Now I’ve just read some of the comments from members about the Python just posted. I assume this unit cleans and fills at the same time.. This is a very nice feature but useless to me as my water must be “doctored” first. Mechanically I also assume that the gravel is picked up inside of a large diameter plastic tube BUT not removed from the tank while in the siphoning process. To that end, I must also conclude that the greater the diameter of the siphoning hose itself the more gravel will be lifted and thus cleaned. A good working diameter for the hose would be ½ I.D.? Now for my question. Is there such a thing or must they all come with the “fill” feature? I know your asking yourselves: “Hey Bill, if you use to be in the hobby 30 years ago, how did you do it back then”? Simple, a large diameter hose, 1 ½” ID, a large cooking colander to catch the siphoned gravel, and then take it outside use a garden hose and rise it. Now what’s wrong with this picture? “Yo Bill! You’ve just killed off all of your good nitrifying bacteria! Correct! Even when I make a mistake, I try not to make the same one twice! Inquiring mind here needs to know????? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 11:27:09 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32880	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

I believe Lisa lives in Australia so I'm not sure Dr. Tim's One And Only is available there but there may be another licensed product under a different name or maybe the Tetra SafeStart is available there (which is supposed to be Bio-Spira for FW since Marineland merged with Tetra... God help Marineland products.. LOL)... but yes, this is certainly a situation where it would be in order if available. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL Is this a situation where that One and Only might help? Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 10:08 AM Cycling a tank takes at least 4 weeks -- and quite often, up to 5 or 6 weeks. You will not be gaining anything by adding your fish after the 2nd week, except to subject these fish to the high stress of cycling, being in the middle of it, and increasing the workload for yourself as you'll need to monitor the water parameters and make increasingly large partial water changes to prevent poisoning your fish from high ammonia and nitrite levels. Actually, if you are going to add fish mid-cycle, why are you bothering to fish-less cycle this tank at all? You might just as well add them from the beginning if you don't mind subjecting them to these stresses. On average, your ammonia will peak at around 10 days, and your nitrite will peak somewhere around 20 days into the cycle. At 2 weeks, your fish will be caught right in the middle of this cycle, still looking forward to the nitrite yet spiking. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@ ...> wrote: > > Well good news all. > I FINALLY get to pick my tank up this coning Saturday avo, and I can > start on the first fun phase! Decorating! > Then my LFS says 3 - 4 weeks of fishless cycling. But I'm going to do 2 > weeks then add my danios, madakas and white clouds. And gradually build > up stock over time. > > Lisa (Australia) > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 11:31:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32881	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

> > > I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our > lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is > it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda > wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the > faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking > about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a > simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as > my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing > something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase I have > 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... > Blessings > Dr.Craft > Take your aerator (the part with the screen that screws into the sink, and the Python pump thing that needs to be adapted to a good hardware store and ask for help finding the correct adapters. What I use is called a dishwasher quick coupling. It replaces the standard aerator on the sink, and allows you to just snap the hose to it. Very quick, very neat. The Python people sell their own quick release units, and also sell a bunch of different adapters, but if you are not sure what to get a good hardware store clerk can do wonders. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32882	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need!

You can use the Python for cleaning only and fill any way you want � John in Nevada --- On Wed, 11/12/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need! To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:55 AM In formulating my plans to setup a new tank, hopefully soon, I also found that I will most probably need a gravel washer. � Now I�ve just read some of the comments from members about the Python just posted.� I assume this unit cleans and fills at the same time.. �This is a very nice feature but useless to me as my water must be �doctored� first. � Mechanically I also assume that the gravel is picked up inside of a large diameter plastic tube BUT not removed from the tank while in the siphoning process.� To that end, I must also conclude that the greater the diameter of the siphoning hose itself the more gravel will be lifted and thus cleaned.� A good working diameter for the hose would be � I.D.?� Now for my question.� Is there such a thing or must they all come with the �fill� feature? � I know your asking yourselves:� �Hey Bill, if you use to be in the hobby 30 years ago, how did you do it back then�?� Simple, a large diameter hose, 1 �� ID, a large cooking colander to catch the siphoned gravel, and then take it outside use a garden hose and rise it.� Now what�s wrong with this picture?� �Yo Bill!� You�ve just killed off all of your good nitrifying bacteria!� Correct!� Even�when I make a mistake, I try not to make the same one twice! � Inquiring mind here needs to know????? � Bill � � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32883	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

This is my first post. I hope it's acceptable to just chime in and help out. Not sure if this has been posted before, but alot of people seem to have issues with the Pythons. I know I had one about 4 years ago, and the stupid thing never worked right. it was a nightmare to get it to fit, then when it did, it never sucked anything. It felt like maybe i had too much air in my water or something and couldn't make a seal/suction. anyway, there's alot of people that DIY syphons. It's really easy and they seem to work great. I'll include some easy instructions pics can be seen at http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_python.php =================================================== *Step one: Locating the Parts needed* I purchased most of the needed parts at Walmart and Lowe's 1. Waterbed Fill & Drain Kit (WalMart $4.96) 2. 50 foot Garden Hose (Lowe's Swan Fairlawn $7.95) 3. Shut off Valve (Lowe's $3.99) 4. Female hose end 3/8"- 1 /2" (Lowe's $1.77) 5. Gravel Cleaner (came with my HOT Magnum PRO) *Step Two: Putting it together* 1. Install necessary adapters that come with Waterbed fill and drain kit. Install Waterbed fill and drain kit (see picture 1) 2. Attach Garden hose to Fill and Drain kit (see picture 2) 3. Attach shut off valve to other end of hose (see picture 3) 4. Install Female hose end to end of gravel cleaner hose (see picture 4a and 4b) 5. Attach Female hose end to end of shut off valve (see picture 5) *Step Three: Using the DIY Python to clean and drain tank* Make sure that your shut off valve is off before turning on the water. On the bottom of the fill and drain kit there is a valve that must be turned down to allow for suction. Turn it down and slowly turn water on checking for leaks. If there is a leak, tighten the fitting, if not turn the water on all the way. Put the gravel cleaner in the tank and slowly turn on the shut off valve, it will sputter some at first. Adjust the shut off valve so that it lifts up the dirt from the gravel, but doesn't suck up the gravel the whole way. Continue cleaning the gravel until you remove the desired amount of water from your tank. Shut off the valve and remove the cleaner from the tank, holding it straight up in air, turn the valve back on to finish sucking the water the rest of the way from the hose. Turn the water off on the faucet. *Step Four: Filling the tank with your DIY Python* Make sure that your shut off valve is off before turning on the water. Turn the water on and adjust the temperature to match that of your tank (a thermometer works well here). Turn the valve at the bottom of the fill and drain kit clockwise until it goes up tight. That will redirect the water to the hose. Holding the gravel cleaner in the sink, slowly turn the shut off valve on till you rinse the hose out really well. (NOTE: Several people on the forum have advised against using a regular garden hose for filling a tank, but I contacted the manufacturer of my hose and they informed me that as long as you rinse the hose really well, no chemicals will be released into the tank. Also make sure you use a new hose, and do not use this hose for anything else, and store it in a cool dry place to keep any bacteria from forming in it) After the hose is rinsed turn off the shutoff valve and go back to your tank. I add all the additives (Novaqua and buffers) that I am going to use in a cup of water and slowly add these to the tank as I refill. Turn the water on slow and let the tank refill to the desired level. Once the tank is full, turn off the shut off valve, and turn the valve on the bottom of the fill and drain kit back to suction. Turn the shut off valve back on and remove all the water from your hose. Hope this all makes sense to you and good luck with your DIY project Total cost $18.67 compared to Python about $40 for a 50 footer. ============================================================================= On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 3:40 AM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...>wrote: > I have the same problem and thought I was the only other person on the > planet. Everyone else seems to screw the Python into every faucet in the > house!! > > I use my laundry sink which has a faucet more like an outside hose faucet > with exposed threads. It means I have to attach the Python downstairs and > run it upstairs, but it works great. I figured that was just temporary and > I'd either figure it out or buy a new faucet for the closest bathroom, but > that was 3 years ago� > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose > > I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our > lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is > it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda > wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the > faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking > about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a > simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as > my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing > something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase I have > 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... > Blessings > Dr.Craft > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32884	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Thanks, and plant questions

Hi All, Just wanted to give a shout out to everyone who helped me with my python problem! Thanks so much and I hope I can make it work, it will really make my life so much easier! I will keep you posted! Also - I would like to add some live plants to my tanks. I need advice on this. I only want to add one or two, I heard that some types of plants are good for bettas, and also help with the water. I have a 30 gal with golfish, a pleco, and a ghost shrimp, a 10 gal with danios, platies, a pleco, and a betta, and another 10 gal with tetras (black and neon) and a betta. What would you recommend?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32885	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

I've written to Cichlid-Forum's before about this article. The suggestion to use a regular garden hose is NOT good. It should be a hose made for potable water since a regular garden hose will leach PVC's and other chemicals into any drops of water that might remain in the hose between PWC's. Fortunately, most people are going to vacuum their tanks first so this would be sucking tank water through the hose and down the drain, hopefully flushing the hose first before the refilling process... but the clear hose, like used on Python's or a potable water hose would be much better and safer for the fish. I've seen many horror stories about unknowing folks using a regular garden hose to top off or fill their ponds only to suffer a large fish kill because of the chemical contamination. Other than that, it's a good DIY article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brad Belikove Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose This is my first post. I hope it's acceptable to just chime in and help out. Not sure if this has been posted before, but alot of people seem to have issues with the Pythons. I know I had one about 4 years ago, and the stupid thing never worked right. it was a nightmare to get it to fit, then when it did, it never sucked anything. It felt like maybe i had too much air in my water or something and couldn't make a seal/suction. anyway, there's alot of people that DIY syphons. It's really easy and they seem to work great. I'll include some easy instructions pics can be seen at http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_python.php =================================================== *Step one: Locating the Parts needed* I purchased most of the needed parts at Walmart and Lowe's 1. Waterbed Fill & Drain Kit (WalMart $4.96) 2. 50 foot Garden Hose (Lowe's Swan Fairlawn $7.95) 3. Shut off Valve (Lowe's $3.99) 4. Female hose end 3/8"- 1 /2" (Lowe's $1.77) 5. Gravel Cleaner (came with my HOT Magnum PRO) *Step Two: Putting it together* 1. Install necessary adapters that come with Waterbed fill and drain kit. Install Waterbed fill and drain kit (see picture 1) 2. Attach Garden hose to Fill and Drain kit (see picture 2) 3. Attach shut off valve to other end of hose (see picture 3) 4. Install Female hose end to end of gravel cleaner hose (see picture 4a and 4b) 5. Attach Female hose end to end of shut off valve (see picture 5) *Step Three: Using the DIY Python to clean and drain tank* Make sure that your shut off valve is off before turning on the water. On the bottom of the fill and drain kit there is a valve that must be turned down to allow for suction. Turn it down and slowly turn water on checking for leaks. If there is a leak, tighten the fitting, if not turn the water on all the way. Put the gravel cleaner in the tank and slowly turn on the shut off valve, it will sputter some at first. Adjust the shut off valve so that it lifts up the dirt from the gravel, but doesn't suck up the gravel the whole way. Continue cleaning the gravel until you remove the desired amount of water from your tank. Shut off the valve and remove the cleaner from the tank, holding it straight up in air, turn the valve back on to finish sucking the water the rest of the way from the hose. Turn the water off on the faucet. *Step Four: Filling the tank with your DIY Python* Make sure that your shut off valve is off before turning on the water. Turn the water on and adjust the temperature to match that of your tank (a thermometer works well here). Turn the valve at the bottom of the fill and drain kit clockwise until it goes up tight. That will redirect the water to the hose. Holding the gravel cleaner in the sink, slowly turn the shut off valve on till you rinse the hose out really well. (NOTE: Several people on the forum have advised against using a regular garden hose for filling a tank, but I contacted the manufacturer of my hose and they informed me that as long as you rinse the hose really well, no chemicals will be released into the tank. Also make sure you use a new hose, and do not use this hose for anything else, and store it in a cool dry place to keep any bacteria from forming in it) After the hose is rinsed turn off the shutoff valve and go back to your tank. I add all the additives (Novaqua and buffers) that I am going to use in a cup of water and slowly add these to the tank as I refill. Turn the water on slow and let the tank refill to the desired level. Once the tank is full, turn off the shut off valve, and turn the valve on the bottom of the fill and drain kit back to suction. Turn the shut off valve back on and remove all the water from your hose. Hope this all makes sense to you and good luck with your DIY project Total cost $18.67 compared to Python about $40 for a 50 footer. ============================================================================ = On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 3:40 AM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...>wrote: > I have the same problem and thought I was the only other person on > the planet. Everyone else seems to screw the Python into every faucet > in the house!! > > I use my laundry sink which has a faucet more like an outside hose > faucet with exposed threads. It means I have to attach the Python > downstairs and run it upstairs, but it works great. I figured that was > just temporary and I'd either figure it out or buy a new faucet for > the closest bathroom, but that was 3 years ago. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Dr. Katie Craft > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose > > I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our > lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is > it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda > wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the > faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are > talking about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! > Just a simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the > same as my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or > doing something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase > I have > 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... > Blessings > Dr.Craft > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 11:58:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32886	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need!

I agree. You dont have to fill it with the python. It operates in a way that suctions first, then you flip a switch and it allows it to fill. On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 9:29 AM, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > You can use the Python for cleaning only and fill any way you want > > John in Nevada > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need! > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:55 AM > > In formulating my plans to setup a new tank, hopefully soon, I also > found that I will most probably need a gravel washer. > > Now I've just read some of the comments from members about the > Python just posted. I assume this unit cleans and fills at the same time.. > This is a very nice feature but useless to me as my water must be > "doctored" > first. > > Mechanically I also assume that the gravel is picked up inside of a large > diameter plastic tube BUT not removed from the tank while in the siphoning > process. To that end, I must also conclude that the greater the diameter > of > the siphoning hose itself the more gravel will be lifted and thus cleaned. > A > good working diameter for the hose would be ½ I.D.? Now for my question. > Is > there such a thing or must they all come with the "fill" feature? > > I know your asking yourselves: "Hey Bill, if you use to be in the hobby 30 > years ago, how did you do it back then"? Simple, a large diameter hose, > 1 ½" ID, a large cooking colander to catch the siphoned gravel, and then > take it outside use a garden hose and rise it. Now what's wrong with this > picture? > "Yo Bill! You've just killed off all of your good nitrifying bacteria! > Correct! Even when I make a mistake, I try not to make the same one twice! > > Inquiring mind here needs to know????? > > Bill > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32887	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

How do these chlorinate the water? My friend has one and he uses it to remove water and refill. So i was just curious. On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Dr. Katie Craft <mom2angeldog@...>wrote: > I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our > lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is > it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda > wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the > faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking > about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a > simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as > my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing > something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase I have > 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... > Blessings > Dr.Craft > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32888	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

Although I know nothing (read my other posts) about Python�s; I think I can help out here.� I doubt if there is any great mystery to the coupling or threading size with this thing; so I would say this-------------providing this piece is in relatively good condition. � When comes to plumbing adapters of any kind your best place to go is the neighborhood, Mom & Pop Hardware store.� You may find what you need in Home Depot or Lowe�s but usually it�s the Mom & Pop stores that will have the �Odd� piece. � Finally, if all else fails, take it and yourself to your local machine or metal fabrication shop and have one made out of brass or if you want to pay an extra buck or two, Stainless Steel!�� 30 years ago I needing an adapter that would screw into the bottom of my kitchen sink faucet (where the water aerator goes, fine thread) but then have a standard course thread on the other end for a garden hose.� Being a welder and knowing everyone in the machine shop, I had one made in less time than it takes to drink a coffee and I paid the guy $5.00 to do it.� I know, I know, company time but it was his talent and I wanted him to have a beer and pizza on me---------------------------30 years ago you could do that.� Today for the same $5 bucks you�d be lucky to get the beer, and draft at that! � Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 12:07 PM I just took some pics of my Python Siphon Valve (the green plastic thing that attaches to the faucet) including close-ups of the adaptors (the brass one that comes with the Python and the chrome adaptor that I had to buy) to make it work with my new bathroom faucet from Price Pfister (also some pics of it) and some older pics of my Python Siphon Valve with the little piece that keeps breaking, which is the threaded venturi funnel. I've had three of these pieces split at the top thread over the past five years and have complained to Python about this issue. I'm not sure if they've started making this piece stronger on the newer models but they really should make it in brass as it's a weak spot of the entire system. I have been able to repair them for a while using Super Glue for plastics or a similar glue. Note that waterbeds use a similar Siphon Valve for filling and emptying them and I've found them online but they appear to be plastic also. The photos are in my Webshots online album here... http://pets. webshots. com/album/ 568640862iqetMy Once again, the little chrome adaptor is likely the one most people will need for some faucet spouts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:40 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose I have the same problem and thought I was the only other person on the planet. Everyone else seems to screw the Python into every faucet in the house!! I use my laundry sink which has a faucet more like an outside hose faucet with exposed threads. It means I have to attach the Python downstairs and run it upstairs, but it works great. I figured that was just temporary and I'd either figure it out or buy a new faucet for the closest bathroom, but that was 3 years ago. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is it possible that they only fit certain faucets (which would be kinda weird)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out because I have 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... Blessings Dr.Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 11:07:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32889	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

Since dechlor products work instantly, I simply add the partial dose of dechlor (depending on the amount of water being replaced) to the tank prior to refilling the tank. I refill at a very slow rate (maybe a 1/4" stream) so that there is less of a chance of a fish inadvertently swimming under the stream where the chlorine/chloramine might affect it. I leave my filter(s) running but do NOT refill where the tap water might go directly into your filter intake so that the dechlor has a chance to work on the tap water first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose How do these chlorinate the water? My friend has one and he uses it to remove water and refill. So i was just curious. On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Dr. Katie Craft <mom2angeldog@... <mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com> >wrote: > I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our > lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is > it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda > wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the > faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are > talking about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! > Just a simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the > same as my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or > doing something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase > I have > 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... > Blessings > Dr.Craft > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 12:24:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32890	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need!

Thanks Len, � If anyone is still lost, on the link that Lenny gave click on the more information box in the middle right hand side and it will tell you what size vaccum tube to what size siphon hose you need. � Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 12:27 PM They sell basic gravel vacuum siphons with various sized gravel vacuum tubes, which is the larger 1" to 3" diameter tube connected to a smaller diameter drain hose which is based on the size of the siphon tube. The size you need is usually dependent on your tank size. I would get the size larger than suggested on the packaging to give you more options on tank sizes should you get a larger tank. The larger diameter gravel siphon tube allows you to clean larger sections faster and it will suck up the water and detritus without sucking up the actual gravel. Here's DrsFosterSmith. com page on the brand they carry... http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+3728+ 3889 <http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+3728+ 3889&pca tid=3889> &pcatid=3889 I have a page on my blog on "How-To Start Your Gravel Vacuum" which includes a link to a YouTube video showing the process. While at that YouTube page, you'll likely see other videos related to gravel vacuuming. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel Washers? Theres Another thing I Need! In formulating my plans to setup a new tank, hopefully soon, I also found that I will most probably need a gravel washer. Now I�ve just read some of the comments from members about the Python just posted. I assume this unit cleans and fills at the same time.. This is a very nice feature but useless to me as my water must be �doctored� first. Mechanically I also assume that the gravel is picked up inside of a large diameter plastic tube BUT not removed from the tank while in the siphoning process. To that end, I must also conclude that the greater the diameter of the siphoning hose itself the more gravel will be lifted and thus cleaned. A good working diameter for the hose would be � I.D.? Now for my question.. Is there such a thing or must they all come with the �fill� feature? I know your asking yourselves: �Hey Bill, if you use to be in the hobby 30 years ago, how did you do it back then�? Simple, a large diameter hose, 1 �� ID, a large cooking colander to catch the siphoned gravel, and then take it outside use a garden hose and rise it. Now what�s wrong with this picture? �Yo Bill! You�ve just killed off all of your good nitrifying bacteria! Correct! Even when I make a mistake, I try not to make the same one twice! Inquiring mind here needs to know????? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 11:27:09 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32891	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the mother of all invention. good luck On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@...>wrote: > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great holes > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids I > used to have. > > Eric > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 fish, > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a bioload > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will grow > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, with > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 gallon > > tank. > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict Cichlid > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > What do I do? > > > I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32892	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

ahh ok. i have always wondered about adding declore directly to the tank never seemed like a good idea. but if you can would make my life easier when refilling. i use buckets right now and its only 5 gal bucket, so i have to do like 5 buckets or so. the directions say only a few drops per 20 galons i think, and i just feel like im adding way more declore than i need to because of the small bucket size. On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Since dechlor products work instantly, I simply add the partial dose of > dechlor (depending on the amount of water being replaced) to the tank prior > to refilling the tank. I refill at a very slow rate (maybe a 1/4" stream) > so that there is less of a chance of a fish inadvertently swimming under > the > stream where the chlorine/chloramine might affect it. I leave my filter(s) > running but do NOT refill where the tap water might go directly into your > filter intake so that the dechlor has a chance to work on the tap water > first. > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose > > How do these chlorinate the water? My friend has one and he uses it to > remove water and refill. So i was just curious. > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Dr. Katie Craft <mom2angeldog@...<mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:mom2angeldog%40yahoo.com <mom2angeldog%2540yahoo.com>> >wrote: > > > I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our > > lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is > > it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda > > wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the > > faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are > > talking about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! > > Just a simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the > > same as my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or > > doing something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase > > I have > > 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... > > Blessings > > Dr.Craft > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 12:24:11 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32893	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids

maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone -----Original Message----- From: Brad Belikove <bbelikove@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 1:08 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the mother of all invention. good luck On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@...>wrote: > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great holes > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids I > used to have. > > Eric > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 fish, > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a bioload > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will grow > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, with > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 gallon > > tank. > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict Cichlid > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > What do I do? > > > I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32894	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

I guess it depends on where you live and your local resources. Most chain stores have 10 gallon tanks from $9.00 to $13.00. -Mike maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone -----Original Message----- From: angelandchase49@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28 am Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone -----Original Message----- From: Brad Belikove <bbelikove@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 1:08 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the mother of all invention. good luck On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@wit chnet.org>wrote: > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great holes > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids I > used to have. > > Eric > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 fish, > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a bioload > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will grow > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, with > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 gallon > > tank. > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict Cichlid > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > What do I do? > > > I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32895	From: Andrew	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Fresh Water Vs. Salt Water????

I have been doing my research on both salt water and fresh water, and i want to know which one is easier or better to have?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32896	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Fresh Water Vs. Salt Water????

FW for me. SW costs more to get started and maintain. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fresh Water Vs. Salt Water???? I have been doing my research on both salt water and fresh water, and i want to know which one is easier or better to have? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 1:34:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32897	From: pam andress	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

I had to go to the hardware store to get sometime to fit my bathroom sink. Since I did, I got a quick disconnect. This way it is always screwed into my faucet and I just have to hook the python onto it. It is just like if you have a portable dishwasher. Same type of hook up. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: mom2angeldog@... Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 04:28:05 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase I have 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... Blessings Dr.Craft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

Yep. Wal-Mart's have them for $10.47 for a 10G tank or a 10G starter kit with hood, filter, etc. for under $40.00. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids I guess it depends on where you live and your local resources. Most chain stores have 10 gallon tanks from $9.00 to $13.00. -Mike maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone -----Original Message----- From: angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28 am Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone -----Original Message----- From: Brad Belikove <bbelikove@... <mailto:bbelikove%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 1:08 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the mother of all invention. good luck On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@wit chnet.org>wrote: > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great > holes > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids > I > used to have. > > Eric > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 > > fish, > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a > > bioload > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will > > grow > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, > > > with > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 > > > gallon > > tank. > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict > > > Cichlid > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > What do I do? > > > I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 2:12:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32899	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

that is so true. -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 2:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids I guess it depends on where you live and your local resources. Most chain stores have 10 gallon tanks from $9.00 to $13.00. -Mike maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone -----Original Message----- From: angelandchase49@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28 am Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone -----Original Message----- From: Brad Belikove <bbelikove@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 1:08 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the mother of all invention. good luck On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@wit chnet.org>wrote: > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great holes > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids I > used to have. > > Eric > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 fish, > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a bioload > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will grow > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, with > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 gallon > > tank. > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict Cichlid > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > What do I do? > > > I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Pleas e, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32900	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: was- Evil Cichlids Now- Bucket Filters

I have bucket filters on both of my salt water tanks. The first one, I spent some time on, cut a hole, cut plexiglas and made a spout to return the water, resealed it after the trial run to fix the small leak I had, then built a wooden base for it, as it didn't come up tall enough, lol. I think it's a 2 1/2 or 3 gallon bucket. Filled it with 3 grades filter media from the local greenhouse that has lots of pond supplies, plus a bag of lava rock on top. Hooked up a good power head/ 4 feet of 3/4" tubing to it and it works really well. The second one is a temporary thing, I haven't cut a hole, just set the tub in the tank on top of a couple of rocks, ran the tubing, powerhead and it is sitting at a bit of a tilt so the water comes out on one side. I love them, the filter media lasts a really long time, they are not hard to clean, and no mechanical parts except the power heads! Laura in KY In a message dated 11/12/2008 12:26:09 PM Central Standard Time, bbelikove@... writes: I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the mother of all invention. good luck **************Get movies delivered to your mailbox. One month free from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32901	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

But as this suggestion of a 10 gallon tank comes along with the thread on what to do with these Convicts, I would not upgrade from an 8 gallon tank to a 10 gallon tank, expecting this would be enough room. I would not even attempt to house five 3 1/2" (females) to 4" (males) fish -- their eventual size -- in a 20 gallon tank, as that's pushing the tank's bioload capacity. These five fish should have a minimum of 30 gallons, preferably as a 36" x 18" "Breeder" tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Brad Belikove" <bbelikove@...> wrote: > > I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained > for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks > easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could > maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. > Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and > a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy > emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a > situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the > mother of all invention. good luck > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@...>wrote: > > > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great holes > > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 > > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids I > > used to have. > > > > Eric > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 fish, > > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a bioload > > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will grow > > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.com>>, > > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, with > > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 gallon > > > tank. > > > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict Cichlid > > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > > > What do I do? > > > > I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32902	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

I already have a "quick coupling" for my little portable dishwasher (yeah portable if you want to lug around 100 lbs). Does your coupling start big and end skinny? Like half of an hour-glass shape.... If so then I should be able to get a quick release unit from python for the new python tank cleaner I'm getting (hopefully). Amber Dana Rasmussen wrote: > > > > > > > > > I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our > > lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is > > it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda > > wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the > > faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking > > about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a > > simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as > > my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing > > something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase I have > > 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... > > Blessings > > Dr.Craft > > > Take your aerator (the part with the screen that screws into the sink, and > the Python pump thing that needs to be adapted to a good hardware > store and > ask for help finding the correct adapters. > What I use is called a dishwasher quick coupling. It replaces the standard > aerator on the sink, and allows you to just snap the hose to it. Very > quick, > very neat. The Python people sell their own quick release units, and also > sell a bunch of different adapters, but if you are not sure what to get a > good hardware store clerk can do wonders. > Dana Rasmussen > Seattle > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32903	From: bruce cohen	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

you might like  hagen for now but when I was managing a tropical fish store the  aquaclear filters were  a pain in the neck if the power went out so did the filter  I think we  replaced close to  25 filters in a day when they went south on us . we never had a problem with the tetra filters or marinelands just hagens --- On Tue, 11/11/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 11:38 AM Every time I see this thread I still wonder why all the tetras have to jump in the lake. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rev. Eric Roberts" <woad@witchnet. org> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake I have the emperor filters and love them. I think ti was Lenny that had the page that shows how to perform surgery on the marineland filters that was a very excellent how-to. I went and put some pothos in the reservoir that feed of the waste matter in the water and they are thriving (I also put a couple of desk lamps over the top of them so they have plenty of light). There is also some graven at the bottom for the plants to root in. Eventually I want to join the 2 filters into one larger reservoir and grow a variety of plants in it. I still have to work on the details of this and how I am going to accomplish this. I was thinking of incorporating some other type of filtering. I forget what it is called, but what I was thinking is akin to the column filters that run the water through varying sized gravel and rocks (I saw this at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago (i did a web development contract there a few years back so I go to see a lot of the behind the scenes stuff. When I was there they were building their Wild Reef exhibit...and got to go in the tank before they filled it *grin*). This is on the back of a 55 gal tank. I would think that bamboo or other swampy plants would do well. If I had saltwater, I could do a mangrove swamp with what i am envisioning. Eric Dora Smith wrote: > > Chris: > > I have a Penguin/ Marineland power filter, and I added a bag of danio > balls > or tetra balls or whatever they're called. Nano balls? Little plastic > balls, they come in two sizes not necessarily sold by the same > company, that > have alot of bits of surface and grow bacteria. I hung a bag of them in > each of my filters. > You could add a bag of pebbles if you'd rather. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <crjm28@yahoo. com <mailto:crjm28% 40yahoo.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:09 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tetra can go jump in a lake > > It seems that according to my local dealer that Tetra has discontinued > their old line of whisper power filters. The shop keeper told me that > when I was looking for a new lift and guard for a 20 gallon filter I > have sitting around. He said they are discontinuing the model,but > keeping the biobags for the for those who still need them. I guess > Tetra decided that reusable biobags don't make them enough money, so > they decided to convert to junk carbon filter cartridges that you > cannot empty with out surgery. Boo! > > In the end there is good news to that. The guy showed me the Aqua > Clear hanging filter. Instead of a bag, you stack your sponge, carbon, > and biothingies on top of each other. Instead of water just passing > through and out, it recirculates the water inside before it is pumped > out. Pretty sweet imho! I guess tetra's loss is hagen's gain. All I > know is I'll never buy a Tetra product again. > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32904	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Somebody just gave me this stuff to try.� Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it!� Anyway there is none. � Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water?� The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons.� That�s a lot of PWC�s. � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32905	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Don't use it. Did you ask them why they gave it to you? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:47:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32906	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosciences.com/product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetraacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:58:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32907	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Tetra can go jump in a lake

I feel a litte dumb. Why did you have to replace the filters? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32908	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: FINALLY! I'm getting the tank! LoL

Thanks, I'll see what products i can find   Lisa   Find your perfect match today at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1012 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32909	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

I can understand that maybe $40 is a bit much for someone. God knows I'm living on a budget you wouldn't believe, so that's why i didn't mention the starter kits. But seriously, stay out of the LFS and goto wal-mart. $13 AT THE MOST and if you got $20 to spend, you've got a filter too. All temp of course. Well the tank will last just fine. On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Yep. Wal-Mart's have them for $10.47 for a 10G tank or a 10G starter kit > with hood, filter, etc. for under $40.00. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... <Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > I guess it depends on where you live and your local resources. > > Most chain stores have 10 gallon tanks from $9.00 to $13.00. > > -Mike > > maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone > > -----Original Message----- > From: angelandchase49@... <angelandchase49%40aim.com> <mailto: > angelandchase49%40aim.com <angelandchase49%2540aim.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28 am > Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brad Belikove <bbelikove@... <bbelikove%40gmail.com> <mailto: > bbelikove%40gmail.com <bbelikove%2540gmail.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 1:08 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained > > for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks > > easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could > > maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. > > Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and > > a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy > > emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a > > situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the > > mother of all invention. good luck > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@wit > chnet.org>wrote: > > > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great > > holes > > > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 > > > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids > > I > > > used to have. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > > > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 > > > fish, > > > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a > > > bioload > > > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will > > > grow > > > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > > > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, > > > > with > > > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 > > > > gallon > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict > > > > Cichlid > > > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > > > > > What do I do? > > > > > I can't put > them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 2:12:38 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32910	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

Well i'm only saying very temporary, and perferably not for all 5 fish. If it's gotta be for all of em, 10 gal will get cha goin til pay day or whatever. He's more concerned with seperating them, and not a permanant house. So the 10 gal is still a valid option. Actually, the only valid option if you ask me. On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > wrote: > But as this suggestion of a 10 gallon tank comes along with the > thread on what to do with these Convicts, I would not upgrade from an > 8 gallon tank to a 10 gallon tank, expecting this would be enough > room. I would not even attempt to house five 3 1/2" (females) to 4" > (males) fish -- their eventual size -- in a 20 gallon tank, as that's > pushing the tank's bioload capacity. These five fish should have a > minimum of 30 gallons, preferably as a 36" x 18" "Breeder" tank. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32911	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

Short answer, Get a bigger tank or less fish, if the cichlids are convicts they are suffering from lack of space. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, with > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 gallon tank. > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict Cichlid > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > What do I do? > I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

My thought was thinking of just splitting them up so the extra 10G would more than double their water volume as a temporary $10.00 measure.... but a clear Sterilite storage box would also work and maybe a 30-40G size could be had for the same $10 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brad Belikove Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids Well i'm only saying very temporary, and perferably not for all 5 fish. If it's gotta be for all of em, 10 gal will get cha goin til pay day or whatever. He's more concerned with seperating them, and not a permanant house. So the 10 gal is still a valid option. Actually, the only valid option if you ask me. On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wrote: > But as this suggestion of a 10 gallon tank comes along with the thread > on what to do with these Convicts, I would not upgrade from an > 8 gallon tank to a 10 gallon tank, expecting this would be enough > room. I would not even attempt to house five 3 1/2" (females) to 4" > (males) fish -- their eventual size -- in a 20 gallon tank, as that's > pushing the tank's bioload capacity. These five fish should have a > minimum of 30 gallons, preferably as a 36" x 18" "Breeder" tank. Ray > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 5:33:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32913	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

I did not used it yet because I would have no-way to insure proper dosage.   Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:47 PM Don't use it. Did you ask them why they gave it to you? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:47:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32914	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

excellent excellent excellent idea. more space, same money. it's be a cake walk to get even a 20 gallon for em, but i dont see why you couldn't get a 40 gallon or even bigger for me. Great call. Go that route, and then get em into a bigger permanent tank, and then you'll always have the tub for backup in the future. On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > My thought was thinking of just splitting them up so the extra 10G would > more than double their water volume as a temporary $10.00 measure.... but a > clear Sterilite storage box would also work and maybe a 30-40G size could > be > had for the same $10 > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Brad Belikove > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > Well i'm only saying very temporary, and perferably not for all 5 fish. If > it's gotta be for all of em, 10 gal will get cha goin til pay day or > whatever. He's more concerned with seperating them, and not a permanant > house. So the 10 gal is still a valid option. Actually, the only valid > option if you ask me. > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Raymond Wetzel < > sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com <sevenspringss%2540wmconnect.com>> > > wrote: > > > But as this suggestion of a 10 gallon tank comes along with the thread > > on what to do with these Convicts, I would not upgrade from an > > 8 gallon tank to a 10 gallon tank, expecting this would be enough > > room. I would not even attempt to house five 3 1/2" (females) to 4" > > (males) fish -- their eventual size -- in a 20 gallon tank, as that's > > pushing the tank's bioload capacity. These five fish should have a > > minimum of 30 gallons, preferably as a 36" x 18" "Breeder" tank. Ray > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 5:33:01 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32915	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

I LOVE my Python. Cichlid-forum is "my" forum and it's fabulous, but I disagree with the article and so do many posters. We would use potable-quality hose only. By the time you pay for that, you can afford the Python. Also the Python tubing is extremely flexible and nothing like dragging a stiff garden hose through the house! -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brad Belikove Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose This is my first post. I hope it's acceptable to just chime in and help out. Not sure if this has been posted before, but alot of people seem to have issues with the Pythons. I know I had one about 4 years ago, and the stupid thing never worked right. it was a nightmare to get it to fit, then when it did, it never sucked anything. It felt like maybe i had too much air in my water or something and couldn't make a seal/suction. anyway, there's alot of people that DIY syphons. It's really easy and they seem to work great. I'll include some easy instructions pics can be seen at http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_python.php =================================================== *Step one: Locating the Parts needed* I purchased most of the needed parts at Walmart and Lowe's 1. Waterbed Fill & Drain Kit (WalMart $4.96) 2. 50 foot Garden Hose (Lowe's Swan Fairlawn $7.95) 3. Shut off Valve (Lowe's $3.99) 4. Female hose end 3/8"- 1 /2" (Lowe's $1.77) 5. Gravel Cleaner (came with my HOT Magnum PRO) *Step Two: Putting it together* 1. Install necessary adapters that come with Waterbed fill and drain kit. Install Waterbed fill and drain kit (see picture 1) 2. Attach Garden hose to Fill and Drain kit (see picture 2) 3. Attach shut off valve to other end of hose (see picture 3) 4. Install Female hose end to end of gravel cleaner hose (see picture 4a and 4b) 5. Attach Female hose end to end of shut off valve (see picture 5) *Step Three: Using the DIY Python to clean and drain tank* Make sure that your shut off valve is off before turning on the water. On the bottom of the fill and drain kit there is a valve that must be turned down to allow for suction. Turn it down and slowly turn water on checking for leaks. If there is a leak, tighten the fitting, if not turn the water on all the way. Put the gravel cleaner in the tank and slowly turn on the shut off valve, it will sputter some at first. Adjust the shut off valve so that it lifts up the dirt from the gravel, but doesn't suck up the gravel the whole way. Continue cleaning the gravel until you remove the desired amount of water from your tank. Shut off the valve and remove the cleaner from the tank, holding it straight up in air, turn the valve back on to finish sucking the water the rest of the way from the hose. Turn the water off on the faucet. *Step Four: Filling the tank with your DIY Python* Make sure that your shut off valve is off before turning on the water. Turn the water on and adjust the temperature to match that of your tank (a thermometer works well here). Turn the valve at the bottom of the fill and drain kit clockwise until it goes up tight. That will redirect the water to the hose. Holding the gravel cleaner in the sink, slowly turn the shut off valve on till you rinse the hose out really well. (NOTE: Several people on the forum have advised against using a regular garden hose for filling a tank, but I contacted the manufacturer of my hose and they informed me that as long as you rinse the hose really well, no chemicals will be released into the tank. Also make sure you use a new hose, and do not use this hose for anything else, and store it in a cool dry place to keep any bacteria from forming in it) After the hose is rinsed turn off the shutoff valve and go back to your tank. I add all the additives (Novaqua and buffers) that I am going to use in a cup of water and slowly add these to the tank as I refill. Turn the water on slow and let the tank refill to the desired level. Once the tank is full, turn off the shut off valve, and turn the valve on the bottom of the fill and drain kit back to suction. Turn the shut off valve back on and remove all the water from your hose. Hope this all makes sense to you and good luck with your DIY project Total cost $18.67 compared to Python about $40 for a 50 footer. ============================================================================ = On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 3:40 AM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...>wrote: > I have the same problem and thought I was the only other person on the > planet. Everyone else seems to screw the Python into every faucet in the > house!! > > I use my laundry sink which has a faucet more like an outside hose faucet > with exposed threads. It means I have to attach the Python downstairs and > run it upstairs, but it works great. I figured that was just temporary and > I'd either figure it out or buy a new faucet for the closest bathroom, but > that was 3 years ago > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python Vac/Hose > > I just got one of those Python things that are supposed to make our > lives much easier ;) but....I cant get mine to fit on my faucet!! Is > it possable that they only fit certian faucets (which would be kinda > wierd)? It came with a piece you can take off or use depending on the > faucet size, but mine fits neither with nor without! And we are talking > about just a plain sink here guys, nothing fancy at all LOL! Just a > simple bathroom faucet which I checked and is pretty much the same as > my kitchen sink in size as well. So am I missing something or doing > something wrong? Am I missing a part? Really bummed out becuase I have > 3 tanks to manage and I'm sick of buckets... > Blessings > Dr.Craft > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32916	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

I used the proper ph (from API) 7.0 and had horrible issues and lost half of my fish, I figure it had something to do with it and I still have it sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I won't touch the stuff again, I'd rather have my fish adjust to my lower PH than keep trying to mess with my PH levels and lose fish again. Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I did not used it yet because I would have no-way to insure proper dosage. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:47 PM > > Don't use it. > > Did you ask them why they gave it to you? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway > there is > none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat > more > than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:47:02 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32917	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Oh, I think I have calcium carbonate somewhere around here, how much should I use per gallon if I'm going to use it instead of the baking soda? Or does this only apply to hard water? I have very soft water. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & > detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. > Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when > setting up an aquarium or changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS > NAME CAS RN % > non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 > sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 > EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 > Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 > (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is > basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might > need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would > do fine at a much lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is > http://www.emdbiosciences.com/product/34103 > <http://www.emdbiosciences.com/product/34103> > > Ethylenediaminetetraacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion > exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, > spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: > ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. > RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > >From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any > buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term > loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not > on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking > Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they > gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! > Anyway there is none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a > gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it > claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:58:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32918	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

More about Soda types?� Did you ever hear the term �Sodium carbonate� (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants.� It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. � Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you?� Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool.� It�s only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+.� To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot.� A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance.� Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish.� But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. � Your thoughts sir? � Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ���99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ���0.001%; iron: ���0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That��s a lot of PWC��s. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:58:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32919	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Make sure you have it and I'll dig up the formula for treating your water... just kidding.. you know I have it saved in my favorites folder already. lol If EVERYONE would go to my blog.. to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and then take the free online fish keeping tutorials, it's in that tutorial. Here's a snip from the page... NOTE ALL OF THE WARNINGS ON THE MAIN PAGE ABOUT CHANGING THE CHEMISTRY TOO MUCH OR TOO FAST http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html Altering Your Water's Chemistry Hardening Your Water (Raising GH and/or KH) The following measurements are approximate; use a test kit to verify you've achieved the intended results. Note that if your water is extremely soft to begin with (1 degree KH or less), you may get a drastic change in pH as the buffer is added. To raise both GH and KH simultaneously, add calcium carbonate (CaCO3). 1/2 teaspoon per 100 liters of water will increase both the KH and GH by about 1-2 dH. Alternatively, add some sea shells, coral, limestone, marble chips, etc. to your filter. To raise the KH without raising the GH, add sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), commonly known as baking soda. 1/2 teaspoon per 100 Liters raises the KH by about 1 dH. Sodium bicarbonate drives the pH towards an equilibrium value of 8.2. (END SNIP) The following page is better for using Baking Soda and Gallons but since it's the same measurement, you could also use the calculator on this page for the Calcium Carbonate measurement. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp NOTE ALL OF THE WARNINGS ABOUT NOT CHANGING THE CHEMISTRY TOO MUCH OR TOO FAST... NOW DON'T SAY I HAVEN'T WARNED YOU. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Oh, I think I have calcium carbonate somewhere around here, how much should I use per gallon if I'm going to use it instead of the baking soda? Or does this only apply to hard water? I have very soft water. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & > detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. > Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when > setting up an aquarium or changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 > 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 > (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is > basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might > need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would > do fine at a much lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is > http://www.emdbiosciences.com/product/34103 > <http://www.emdbiosciences.com/product/34103> > <http://www.emdbiosciences.com/product/34103 > <http://www.emdbiosciences.com/product/34103> > > > Ethylenediaminetetraacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion > exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, > spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: > ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. > RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > >From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any > buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term > loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not > on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking > Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they > gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! > Anyway there is none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a > gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it > claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 6:26:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32920	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Thanks Amber,   It never got to the shelf-----------------------it's in the can!   Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 6:50 PM I used the proper ph (from API) 7.0 and had horrible issues and lost half of my fish, I figure it had something to do with it and I still have it sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I won't touch the stuff again, I'd rather have my fish adjust to my lower PH than keep trying to mess with my PH levels and lose fish again. Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I did not used it yet because I would have no-way to insure proper dosage.. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:47 PM > > Don't use it. > > Did you ask them why they gave it to you? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway > there is > none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat > more > than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:47:02 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32921	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Oh Bill.. but to answer your first question about directions.. should you still be thinking about using this bottled chemical crap.. LOL... here's the "Technical Sheet" on the API website which has directions.. of course, they aren't simple about it but in simple terms it's 12 grams per 10G. You can see this dosage when looking at their individual packages instructions. http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/TechSheet.aspx?TechSheetID=32 BUT I WOULDN'T USE IT. You can either use the Baking Soda (Sodium bicarbonate) to raise KH with a slight increase in pH or Calcium Carbonate to raise GH, KH and an increase in pH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I used the proper ph (from API) 7.0 and had horrible issues and lost half of my fish, I figure it had something to do with it and I still have it sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I won't touch the stuff again, I'd rather have my fish adjust to my lower PH than keep trying to mess with my PH levels and lose fish again. Amber bill1433 wrote: > > I did not used it yet because I would have no-way to insure proper dosage. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, > Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:47 PM > > Don't use it. > > Did you ask them why they gave it to you? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they > gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! > Anyway there is none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a > gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it > claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 > 4:47:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 6:40:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 6:45:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32922	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Well, the problem with ph adjusters is that the water is buffered to certain levels at the water treatment plant and will tend to return to those levels no matter what you do, so when you change the ph you mostly end up with big ph swings that the fish can't tolerate. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc >I used the proper ph (from API) 7.0 and had horrible issues and lost > half of my fish, I figure it had something to do with it and I still > have it sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I won't touch the stuff > again, I'd rather have my fish adjust to my lower PH than keep trying to > mess with my PH levels and lose fish again. > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: >> >> I did not used it yet because I would have no-way to insure proper >> dosage. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:47 PM >> >> Don't use it. >> >> Did you ask them why they gave it to you? >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under >> Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. >> com] On >> Behalf Of bill1433 >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM >> To: AquaticLife >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc >> >> Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave >> it >> to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway >> there is >> none. >> >> Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon >> of >> water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat >> more >> than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. >> >> Bill >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 >> Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:47:02 PM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32923	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Lenny-----in case you missed my other post.

As far as the Proper Ph 6.5 product?� It never got to the shelf in went into the can after your first message. � On the Calcium Carbonate== Lime Stone, I�ve got a yard full! I happen to live on the side of a mountain out here and there is lime stone everywhere! � My thoughts, after reading through http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html is this.� I think I�ll be using small pieces of this in a nylon bag within the Aqua Clear�s filter box to act as a buffer and to maintain Ph and hardness levels.� This is after I raise the water�s Ph to at least 6.0 and hold that.� Sound like a plan? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Dora, First. This was Bill's water we were talking about and he's on a natural well with water supplied by God as his water treatment plant. ;-) Second. There are legitimate and scientifically proven ways to alter your water's chemistry.. it's just that 95% of the bottled crap, that pet stores try to sell, are not the way to do it... unless you know what's in the bottle so you know exactly what you are adding to your tank. I posted links and directions to proper ways to alter water chemistry when absolutely needed... but most of the time, it's not needed for the majority of fish keepers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 6:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Well, the problem with ph adjusters is that the water is buffered to certain levels at the water treatment plant and will tend to return to those levels no matter what you do, so when you change the ph you mostly end up with big ph swings that the fish can't tolerate. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc >I used the proper ph (from API) 7.0 and had horrible issues and lost >half of my fish, I figure it had something to do with it and I still >have it sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I won't touch the stuff >again, I'd rather have my fish adjust to my lower PH than keep trying >to mess with my PH levels and lose fish again. > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: >> >> I did not used it yet because I would have no-way to insure proper >> dosage. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, >> Inc >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:47 PM >> >> Don't use it. >> >> Did you ask them why they gave it to you? >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles >> referenced above listed on the right side under Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. >> com] On >> Behalf Of bill1433 >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM >> To: AquaticLife >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc >> >> Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they >> gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! >> Anyway there is none. >> >> Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a >> gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it >> claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. >> >> Bill >> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 7:15:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32925	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny-----in case you missed my other post.

That can certainly work but you'll still have to test it on a regular basis and dose as needed.... and add or remove some of the limestone from the filter as needed until you get the right amount. And remember, as your fish grow (and plants if you get them), they'll use up more of the KH and trace elements so you'll have to likely have more limestone in the tank with full sized fish compared to juvi fish. God, I'm glad I have hard water.. although I do dose a little Baking Soda in my planted goldfish tank to keep the KH level up. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:04 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny-----in case you missed my other post. As far as the Proper Ph 6.5 product? It never got to the shelf in went into the can after your first message. On the Calcium Carbonate== Lime Stone, I¢ve got a yard full! I happen to live on the side of a mountain out here and there is lime stone everywhere! My thoughts, after reading through http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html is this. I think I¢ll be using small pieces of this in a nylon bag within the Aqua Clear¢s filter box to act as a buffer and to maintain Ph and hardness levels. This is after I raise the water¢s Ph to at least 6.0 and hold that. Sound like a plan? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 7:19:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Don't know much about it. Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than what you gave also. Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... especially since you have that free limestone available. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. (END SNIP) http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness Want to increase your hardness? One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the actual KH and GH that is achieved. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term “Sodium carbonate” (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. It’s only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. Your thoughts sir? Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 7:51:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32927	From: William J. Scott	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

Petco Has a 10 gal starter kit (incandescent light, no heater) for $29.95 until 11/22/08. Bill in CA. -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 11/12/2008 12:13:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids Yep. Wal-Mart's have them for $10.47 for a 10G tank or a 10G starter kit with hood, filter, etc. for under $40.00. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids I guess it depends on where you live and your local resources. Most chain stores have 10 gallon tanks from $9.00 to $13.00. -Mike maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone -----Original Message----- From: angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28 am Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone -----Original Message----- From: Brad Belikove <bbelikove@... <mailto:bbelikove%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 1:08 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the mother of all invention. good luck On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@wit chnet.org>wrote: > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great > holes > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids > I > used to have. > > Eric > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 > > fish, > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a > > bioload > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will > > grow > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, > > > with > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 > > > gallon > > tank. > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict > > > Cichlid > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > What do I do? > > > I can't put them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 2:12:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32928	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Algae (Hair)?

Update on this. I had to move the 38G tank recently and I removed the fish and drained the water. The substrate and plants remained. I thought this would be a good time to treat the rocks and background with hydrogen peroxide since the entire tank would be flushed with fresh water when refilled and THEN the fish, so minimizing change of hydrogen peroxide burns. The rocks went in a bucket with hydrogen peroxide water for several hours while the move was happening. I brushed off what I could from the background then dribbled 2T of 3% peroxide on it (it's inside the tank, Pangea, looks like a cliff) and let that percolate while I replaced the well-rinsed rocks. Filled the tank and replaced the fish. This was Sunday. Well! The remaining algae fuzz is turning brown and shedding everywhere! I have to unclog the filter intakes cut into the background every 48 hours. When the Calvus go to nibble a piece of food on a rock they are surprised by a little poof of debris in their face. We will see what happens once the treated stuff dies off and if it starts to regrow. I did reduce the lights and I'm adding Nitrate to the tank (do you believe it?). Plant guru's from Plant Geek say never to let your Nitrate go below 10ppm to keep the plants growing aggressively so they can out-compete the algae. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae (Hair)? Donna, Unless you have large populations of aquarium plants (and do lots of PWC's), its near impossible to have exactly 0 amounts of nitrate, as this is constantly be created via the nitrogen cycle. As (unless your test results are showing you erroneous readings) your nitrates do seem to be at a very minimal level, you have a very healthy tank situation going on there for your fish. Now to address your hair algae problem, first as Lenny pointed out, your lighting duration is excessive -- whether broken up into two periods during the day or not. The tank is still receiving 11 hours of direct lighting, on top of any diffused room lighting you're mentioning. If the artificial (direct -- tank light) lighting is employed outside of the normal daylight period of diffused room lighting (very early morning, late evening) this will have an even greater effect n the total lighting received rather than having the tank lights on just during the daylight hours. As you made mention of, yes, Flourish Excel has deleterious effects on Valisneria (and also on Elodea, and other like delicate plants). As an alternative, you might consider trying Hydrogen Peroxide with judicial use of this agent in ridding the tank of this nuisance, as it will work and is used by aquarists for this purpose. The normal dosage to use is not to exceed 2 Tbs per 10 gallons -- mixed thoroughly before adding, and distributed widely as it is added to prevent any concentrated pockets of it; still, this is to be considered an extremely weak solution affecting nothing more than lower forms of plant life. Be aware that it is an oxygenator, and should always be used with caution because of that; as such, I would go with half that strength to start out with, to avoid any possible problems with the more delicate aquatic plants (Val), and go from there. If you prefer not to approach that half-concentration-solution, you may use an eye dropper, having only 2 teaspoons of Peroxide on hand for each 10 gallons of aquarium water, and apply (squirt) small amounts of this directly on this algae. Peroxide is very unstable and will very soon break down into water and free oxygen. What algae you don't eliminate with the first try, you can repeat this process certainly by the following day to feel safe (actually much sooner), as it really breaks down completely well within 20 minutes. The main caution you need to take is not to get this product too near your fish in its full strength. As this extremely minimal amount of it is spread throughout the water, its already breaking down, but besides that its so diluted at that point that its likely it would not even be effective in killing bacteria. Its often safely used in aquariums because of these reasons; I've used it myself, and have known many others to use it, but feel I need to throw this caution out there for the awareness of all. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32929	From: bill1433	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

I wouldn�t argue one way or another.� In the message below this it was�quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. �My concern of course, is the fish and how they would re-act.� Since no one quoted back on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. � I�ll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later.� As far as testing goes, I�m afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank.� Such is the mania of trying to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water.� It�s properties should not change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, testing is the only way to fly. � Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM Don't know much about it. Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than what you gave also. Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... especially since you have that free limestone available. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. (END SNIP) http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness Want to increase your hardness? One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the actual KH and GH that is achieved. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term �Sodium carbonate� (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. It�s only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. Your thoughts sir? Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ���99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ���0.001%; iron: ���0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That��s a lot of PWC��s. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 7:51:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32930	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual chemical formula. I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming pools but not in aquariums. Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I wouldn’t argue one way or another. In the message below this it was quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. My concern of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. I’ll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As far as testing goes, I’m afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It’s properties should not change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, testing is the only way to fly. Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM Don't know much about it. Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than what you gave also. Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... especially since you have that free limestone available. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. (END SNIP) http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness Want to increase your hardness? One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the actual KH and GH that is achieved. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term “Sodium carbonate” (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. It’s only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. Your thoughts sir? Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 9:26:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32931	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Thanks all:)

A good friend of mine was paralyzed from the abdomen down (Now, having said that, it is probably unnecessary. It is kind of hard, I think, to be paralyzed from the abdomen up.), and maintained several tanks by himself, with the largest being a 100 gallon. He did develop several tools to help him with the maintenance and needed help about once or twice a year to do things like changing lights. After his pond was dug and lined, he also needed very little help with that also. I think that one you get the hang of it, you will be able to do as well as he did. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of danf2346 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thanks all:) I am so happy with my 20 gallon tank! This is the biggest tank I have had so far. Key word (so far:) Largest I would probably go would be with a 40. I would love to go even larger, but I am in a wheelchair and need some help with water changes... Anyways... My 20g is a community tank with lots of hiding spots and live plants. I had asked about adding african dwarf frogs. I just added 3 frogs this past weekend, and I am happy to say that everyone is getting along great. When I feed the fish, I simultaneously drop either a shrimp pellet or a hakari sinking wafers in for the frogs. I was originally concerned with getting enough food for the frogs, because the fish dont let much food fall to the floor. But adding the pellets or wafers at the same time did the trick. Thanks to everyone that helped me put together such a fantastic home for our little friends:) Dan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32932	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual chemical formula. I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming pools but not in aquariums. Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I wouldn’t argue one way or another. In the message below this it was quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. My concern of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. I’ll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As far as testing goes, I’m afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It’s properties should not change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, testing is the only way to fly. Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM Don't know much about it. Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than what you gave also. Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... especially since you have that free limestone available. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. (END SNIP) http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness Want to increase your hardness? One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the actual KH and GH that is achieved. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term “Sodium carbonate” (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. It’s only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. Your thoughts sir? Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32933	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

\\Steve//, While I certainly agree that 95% of folks should follow that simple rule.... What fish would you suggest for Bill who has a small tank (I think 5G now)... working on a medium sized tank (30-40G)... has well water with almost zero KH and a very low pH of 5.5 to 6.0 after the 48 hour baseline testing and aerating the water. Shouldn't he at least dose with Baking Soda to bring up the KH? Bill, If you want to do a little experimenting with this neat site that I found recently... I haven't had a chance to vet it much yet so I haven't talked about it much... but this database gives you the ability to search for fish based on a large variety of parameters such as: Max Size, pH, Temperature, Hardness, Family, Temperament, Reproductive Type, Swimming Area, Food Type and Biotope.... but they didn't have the KH parameter in the database fields. http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spe cies> &name=database&file=index_species On a sample search for what I know about your water, I used fish with a maximum size of 3", pH of 6.0, Temperature of 78F, Hardness of 10 dH (I think yours was around this level), Family of All, Temperament of Peaceful, Reproductive Type of Egg Scatterer (I wish I could have just excluded livebearers), Swimming area of All, Food Type of All and Biotope of All. Of course, you could have changed the swimming areas to look for fish that preferred an area that you currently do not have filled up. Unfortunately.. or fortunately.. it came up with 19 pages of fish.... but I happened to notice a picture of your Red-Eyed Tetras on the first page since they were listed by Latin name - Arnoldichthys spilopterus - so they were on the first page. If anyone else plays around with the Database, let me know how it works out for you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual chemical formula. I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming pools but not in aquariums. Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I wouldn’t argue one way or another. In the message below this it was quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. My concern of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. I’ll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As far as testing goes, I’m afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It’s properties should not change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, testing is the only way to fly. Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM Don't know much about it. Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than what you gave also. Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... especially since you have that free limestone available. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. (END SNIP) http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness Want to increase your hardness? One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the actual KH and GH that is achieved. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term “Sodium carbonate” (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. It’s only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. Your thoughts sir? Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 10:40:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32934	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

I believe he did mention rams some time ago. They would do very well in such an environment. _Crenicara punctulatum_, the checkerboard cichlid would also be another good choice. There are any number of South American tetras that would do well in such an environment. If he wants to go to Africa, there are also a good number of fish from soft, acid waters, such as kribs, and then there are characins from there also that would fill the bill. From Asia, any of the labyrinth fish would be good additions. It should not take much research to come up with a good single species tank or community tank for soft, acid water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc \\Steve//, While I certainly agree that 95% of folks should follow that simple rule.... What fish would you suggest for Bill who has a small tank (I think 5G now)... working on a medium sized tank (30-40G)... has well water with almost zero KH and a very low pH of 5.5 to 6.0 after the 48 hour baseline testing and aerating the water. Shouldn't he at least dose with Baking Soda to bring up the KH? Bill, If you want to do a little experimenting with this neat site that I found recently... I haven't had a chance to vet it much yet so I haven't talked about it much... but this database gives you the ability to search for fish based on a large variety of parameters such as: Max Size, pH, Temperature, Hardness, Family, Temperament, Reproductive Type, Swimming Area, Food Type and Biotope.... but they didn't have the KH parameter in the database fields. http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spe cies> &name=database&file=index_species On a sample search for what I know about your water, I used fish with a maximum size of 3", pH of 6.0, Temperature of 78F, Hardness of 10 dH (I think yours was around this level), Family of All, Temperament of Peaceful, Reproductive Type of Egg Scatterer (I wish I could have just excluded livebearers), Swimming area of All, Food Type of All and Biotope of All. Of course, you could have changed the swimming areas to look for fish that preferred an area that you currently do not have filled up. Unfortunately.. or fortunately.. it came up with 19 pages of fish.... but I happened to notice a picture of your Red-Eyed Tetras on the first page since they were listed by Latin name - Arnoldichthys spilopterus - so they were on the first page. If anyone else plays around with the Database, let me know how it works out for you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual chemical formula. I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming pools but not in aquariums. Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I wouldn’t argue one way or another. In the message below this it was quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. My concern of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. I’ll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As far as testing goes, I’m afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It’s properties should not change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, testing is the only way to fly. Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM Don't know much about it. Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than what you gave also. Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... especially since you have that free limestone available. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. (END SNIP) http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness Want to increase your hardness? One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the actual KH and GH that is achieved. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term “Sodium carbonate” (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. It’s only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. Your thoughts sir? Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32935	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/12/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

Also check out local freecycle lists and craigslist.com...you might be able to get even a bigger tank for free or for a lot less than a new one. Eric Brad Belikove wrote: > > I can understand that maybe $40 is a bit much for someone. God knows I'm > living on a budget you wouldn't believe, so that's why i didn't > mention the > starter kits. But seriously, stay out of the LFS and goto wal-mart. $13 AT > THE MOST and if you got $20 to spend, you've got a filter too. All temp of > course. Well the tank will last just fine. > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > Yep. Wal-Mart's have them for $10.47 for a 10G tank or a 10G starter kit > > with hood, filter, etc. for under $40.00. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz%40aol.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > > > I guess it depends on where you live and your local resources. > > > > Most chain stores have 10 gallon tanks from $9.00 to $13.00. > > > > -Mike > > > > maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank > alone > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> > <angelandchase49%40aim.com> <mailto: > > angelandchase49%40aim.com <angelandchase49%2540aim.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28 am > > Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > > > maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank > alone > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Brad Belikove <bbelikove@... > <mailto:bbelikove%40gmail.com> <bbelikove%40gmail.com> <mailto: > > bbelikove%40gmail.com <bbelikove%2540gmail.com>> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 1:08 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > > > I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be > obtained > > > > for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks > > > > easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could > > > > maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a > slower pace. > > > > Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some > sponges and > > > > a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy > > > > emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions > for a > > > > situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity > is the > > > > mother of all invention. good luck > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@wit > > chnet.org>wrote: > > > > > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great > > > holes > > > > > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 > > > > > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids > > > I > > > > > used to have. > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > > > > > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > > > > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 > > > > fish, > > > > > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > > > > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > > > > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a > > > > bioload > > > > > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will > > > > grow > > > > > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > > > > > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, > > > > > with > > > > > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 > > > > > gallon > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict > > > > > Cichlid > > > > > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do I do? > > > > > > > I can't put > > them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > > > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > > Tested on: 11/12/2008 2:12:38 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32936	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

> I already have a "quick coupling" for my little portable dishwasher > (yeah portable if you want to lug around 100 lbs). Does your coupling > start big and end skinny? Like half of an hour-glass shape.... If so > then I should be able to get a quick release unit from python for the > new python tank cleaner I'm getting (hopefully). > > Amber Exactly. On my Python the pump valve thing is a standard water hose thread which is the same as most of the hoses for dishwashers I have seen. I don't know if the Python people sell the quick release, but both the local hardware stores near by knew exactly what I needed. Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32937	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

If your in a situation like I have with well-water, you must monitor through testing and maintain a balancce or set level to what your fish will tolerate or kill everything.   Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 7:55 PM Well, the problem with ph adjusters is that the water is buffered to certain levels at the water treatment plant and will tend to return to those levels no matter what you do, so when you change the ph you mostly end up with big ph swings that the fish can't tolerate. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@rose-fields. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc >I used the proper ph (from API) 7.0 and had horrible issues and lost > half of my fish, I figure it had something to do with it and I still > have it sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I won't touch the stuff > again, I'd rather have my fish adjust to my lower PH than keep trying to > mess with my PH levels and lose fish again. > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: >> >> I did not used it yet because I would have no-way to insure proper >> dosage. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com >> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com >> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:47 PM >> >> Don't use it. >> >> Did you ask them why they gave it to you? >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under >> Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. >> com] On >> Behalf Of bill1433 >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM >> To: AquaticLife >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc >> >> Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave >> it >> to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway >> there is >> none. >> >> Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon >> of >> water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat >> more >> than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. >> >> Bill >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 >> Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:47:02 PM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32938	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Severum's and plants

I know that some cichlids (if not many, not sure though) like to "destroy" live plants in an aquarium, not to mention rearrange for you. So my question is just how destructive can a severum and angel-fish be if they have been in a planted aquarium since babies? Is it instinct? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32939	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Severum's and plants

Simply put, for those Cichlids which uproot live plants (and that's the only way they'll manage to "destroy" them -- except for those species that dine on them), yes its instinct. These fish have evolved this behavioral strategy as part of the procreation of their next generation. While Angelfish are not adept at digging up plants (they may chew on some softer ones), Severums can and will dig them up. At breeding times, they want an unobscured view of their surrounding territory to help ensure there will be no predators in hiding to attack and devour their fry. It makes it easier for the breeding pair to maintain their territory free of other fish which may pose a danger. Single specimens may also take on this behavior as they mature, but here again, this is in anticipation of attracting a mate, establishing a pair bond and breeding. There are also herbiferous Cichlids, such as Uaru's, which will nibble certain delectable (to them) plants right down to the nub. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I know that some cichlids (if not many, not sure though) like to > "destroy" live plants in an aquarium, not to mention rearrange for you. > So my question is just how destructive can a severum and angel-fish be > if they have been in a planted aquarium since babies? Is it instinct? > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32940	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Severum's and plants

It’s diet and behavior. Herbivores will eat plants. Omnivores too. And cichlids that dig will uproot them. I have plants with my carnivore cichlids from Lake Tanganyika, and I put rocks on top of the roots to prevent plants that are floating when they shouldn’t be, LOL. Plants with my herbivore cichlids from Lake Malawi did not work as well. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Severum's and plants I know that some cichlids (if not many, not sure though) like to "destroy" live plants in an aquarium, not to mention rearrange for you. So my question is just how destructive can a severum and angel-fish be if they have been in a planted aquarium since babies? Is it instinct? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32941	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Steve, � Your point is well taken BUT consider this, "How many different types of fish will live in 5.5 Ph.� I was just thinking that is what the test kit strip shows but could it even be lower? We have quite a bit of Acid Rain here and although the ground water is perked or filtered through some lime-stone its still quite low.� � Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 11:08 PM It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual chemical formula. I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming pools but not in aquariums. Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I wouldn�t argue one way or another. In the message below this it was quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. My concern of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. I�ll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As far as testing goes, I�m afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It�s properties should not change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, testing is the only way to fly. Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM Don't know much about it. Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than what you gave also. Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... especially since you have that free limestone available. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. (END SNIP) http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness Want to increase your hardness? One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the actual KH and GH that is achieved. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term �Sodium carbonate� (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. It�s only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. Your thoughts sir? Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ���99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ���0.001%; iron: ���0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That��s a lot of PWC��s. Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32942	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Rams have been found in waters testing at or below a pH of 4. Many of the characins come from waters that are inhabited by angles and discus, and have been found to have a pH of 5 or less. Personally, I think that a lot of the pH figures given in aquarium texts are suspect, and may not be representative of the true pH of the environment of the fish in the wild. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Steve,   Your point is well taken BUT consider this, "How many different types of fish will live in 5.5 Ph.  I was just thinking that is what the test kit strip shows but could it even be lower? We have quite a bit of Acid Rain here and although the ground water is perked or filtered through some lime-stone its still quite low.    Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 11:08 PM It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual chemical formula. I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming pools but not in aquariums. Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I wouldn’t argue one way or another. In the message below this it was quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. My concern of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. I’ll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As far as testing goes, I’m afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It’s properties should not change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, testing is the only way to fly. Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM Don't know much about it. Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than what you gave also. Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... especially since you have that free limestone available. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. (END SNIP) http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness Want to increase your hardness? One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the actual KH and GH that is achieved. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term “Sodium carbonate” (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. It’s only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. Your thoughts sir? Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32943	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: The main reason why I DO NOT LIKE Tetra (the Company) FW: Monthly Aq

The below email is a monthly e-minder that I signed up for with Tetra, years ago, to see what it was and I never did unsubscribe but every time I get it, I wonder how many fish Tetra killed this month??? This "e-minder program" from Tetra is mainly marketed to newbie's which makes it even worse. Here is the email and I'll add my comments afterwards. -----Original Message----- From: Tetra [mailto:e-Minders@...] Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:03 PM To: Lenny Vasbinder Subject: Monthly Aquarium Maintenance Hello from TetraCare. To keep your aquarium in tip-top condition, please be sure you're doing the following on a regular basis: 1. Test the water monthly using your test kit. Is the water okay (normal pH, zero ammonia, zero nitrite)? If not, please call us at 1-800-423-6458, and we'll help you correct any problems. 2. Do a partial (25%) water change, unless you're using EasyBalance(R). Be sure to add a water treatment such as AquaSafe(R) to the water you add to the aquarium, as tap water is toxic to your fish. 3. Change the cartridge in your Power Filter every month. The TetraCare team is always here to help you. You can contact us at 1-800-423-6458. We're here 7:30 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. EDT Monday through Friday, and Noon to 6:00 p.m. Saturday & Sunday; otherwise leave a voice mail message, and we promise to return your call within 24 hours! There's never a charge for TetraCare - we're happy to help. The TetraCare team ----- END MESSAGE ------ OK... The first tip is OK except it doesn't talk about testing for nitrates... which while not the perfect test to determine how good/bad the water quality might be, it's certainly an indicator of a potential problem and should be tested on a regular basis... especially considering the rest of the "tips" given in this email. The second tip is suggesting only a monthly 25% PWC which might be OK for a very lightly stocked aquarium... although I think even this example of a tank needs more than 25% of fresh clean water a month. Can you imagine how high the DOC (dissolved organic compound) level would get after the same water is flowing through a dirty filter for a month? The WORST part of this second tip is how Tetra says "... unless you're using EasyBalance..." which is a product Tetra pushes on newbie's. This is a product that Tetra says can be added to a tank and then you only have to do PWC's once every six months. I've written about this crappy chemical before and it's nasty stuff to put in an aquarium and subject fish to for six months. One forum thread I read several years ago added this stuff to their guppy tank and the guppies did not breed in the tank... so I ask... can a chemical that stops guppies from breeding possibly be good for your fish? Maybe Tetra should market this as birth control for livebearers... LOL If the first two tips didn't kill all of your fish, the third one will likely put them over the edge. Now, Tetra, in order to sell more filter cartridges, is telling people to trash their fully cycled and perfectly good and healthy filter cartridge and advising folks to put a new one in, which will put the tank into a mini-cycle with resulting ammonia and nitrite spikes... every month. (Read my article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more info on this topic) In conclusion... this example tank likely has a high nitrate level, huge levels of DOC's in the water column and is being put into a mini-cycle with soon to come ammonia and nitrite spikes... and this is being advised by Tetra to do this on a monthly basis. So... does Tetra own some of the importing and pet fish farms, so they have an interest in killing as many fish as possible so they can sell people new fish??? Inquiring minds want to know!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 7:30:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32944	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help. � Maybe I am handling this wrong.� Steve�s point is very well taken and of course, does make perfect sense.� Since you folks have about a ton and a half more �hands-on� experience than I do, how about this?� Lets jump ahead a little bit and let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don�t have yet?� Neon Tetra�s, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra�s.� That�s the fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger tank, they are fine.� � The ones I don�t have and worrying about getting are the Rams and Red-Wag Platy�s.� The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but the Red-Wag Platy�s are a complete no show at least around here.� The ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in the body, they almost seem to be some type of variant.� I�m almost positive that someone in the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures of them on Group but I could be wrong.� I have been there so much I could be mistaken. � As you can see, it isn�t so much variety, its almost just more of what I have.� An example of others?� Quite a while back I mentioned Black Tetra�s, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied the other two, they just stopped eating.� Why he leaves the little tetra�s I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good.� As far as Africans Cichlids go, we let them.� I don�t think my water conditions could support anything in that line comfortably.� So that�s it.� Suggestions?� Letm� ripe! � Thanks to all trying to help, � Bill � � � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32945	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: betta behavior question

I have a 55 gallon at home, but my betta lives happily in smaller digs on my desk at work. Recently I had to jury-rig a repair to a piece of office equipment with a rubber band of a bright reddish orange which is next to him. Now he is building a bubble nest. Is he courting the rubber band (in which case maybe I should replace it with a paper clip or a brown rubber band) or is this just a coincidence? I don't want him pining for the unrequited love of office supplies seen dimly thru glass.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32946	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: betta behavior question

Well.. the main thing is that at least he'll be having safe sex with the rubber----band. AR AR AR.. LOL It could be the rubber band but it could also being a male Betta doing what they do. Mine would build a bubble nest on a regular basis and I do not recall having anything colorful nearby.. but maybe I did and didn't realize it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] betta behavior question I have a 55 gallon at home, but my betta lives happily in smaller digs on my desk at work. Recently I had to jury-rig a repair to a piece of office equipment with a rubber band of a bright reddish orange which is next to him. Now he is building a bubble nest. Is he courting the rubber band (in which case maybe I should replace it with a paper clip or a brown rubber band) or is this just a coincidence? I don't want him pining for the unrequited love of office supplies seen dimly thru glass. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 8:23:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32947	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: betta behavior question

Mine have also built random nests also when ive kept them in the past, Probably just keeping the skills sharp. Mine was never very good at it though. Seemed like sloppy craftsmanship to me. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Well.. the main thing is that at least he'll be having safe sex with the > rubber----band. AR AR AR.. LOL > > It could be the rubber band but it could also being a male Betta doing what > they do. Mine would build a bubble nest on a regular basis and I do not > recall having anything colorful nearby.. but maybe I did and didn't realize > it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Diana Brooks > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] betta behavior question > > I have a 55 gallon at home, but my betta lives happily in smaller digs on > my > desk at work. Recently I had to jury-rig a repair to a piece of office > equipment with a rubber band of a bright reddish orange which is next to > him. Now he is building a bubble nest. Is he courting the rubber band (in > which case maybe I should replace it with a paper clip or a brown rubber > band) or is this just a coincidence? I don't want him pining for the > unrequited love of office supplies seen dimly thru glass. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 8:23:31 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32948	From: silvali_2000	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: What is wrong with my snail???

I think it's a Malaysian Trumpet or whatever kind they give away free at Petco because they've take over everything. Anyway, I've had it for a few months now, but lately it's been laying on it's shell so the body is raised up off the gravel. I thought it was a sign of ammonia or something, but my 3 other snails and all the other fish are fine(65 gallon btw) and I just vacuumed the gravel and did a partial water change yesterday. I have flipped it over several times, but it always stays in the same place and repostions itself 'up in the air' and seeming to be 'hanging out' of it's shell. It is alive because when I go to roll it over, it retracts. What's going on? Please help. Thanks!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32949	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my snail???

If it retracts when you touch it, it is still alive but it could be having health issues as well. While Petco could be giving away MTS', they are more likely to give away more nuisance snails like pond snails. MTS have a slim long spiraling shell that is cone shaped and they do not breed as prolifically as the more common pond snails do which is why the pond snails are considered more of a nuisance. Many people (including me) like to have MTS in our tanks. They mostly leave plants alone and will burrow into the gravel looking for food so they help keep things clean... and with a sand substrate, they'll help keep the sand from getting compacted which can cause anaerobic bacteria problems. Go to http://www.Applesnail.net to look at the diagrams/photos of snails to figure out what kind you have. Besides being one of the best places for info on Apple Snails and Mystery Snails, they also have tons of info on other snails as well. I know that Apple Snails and Mystery Snails will sometimes lay on their sides with their "foot" out and this is part of their normal habits but I've never really paid much attention to nuisance snail habits. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of silvali_2000 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 8:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What is wrong with my snail??? I think it's a Malaysian Trumpet or whatever kind they give away free at Petco because they've take over everything. Anyway, I've had it for a few months now, but lately it's been laying on it's shell so the body is raised up off the gravel. I thought it was a sign of ammonia or something, but my 3 other snails and all the other fish are fine(65 gallon btw) and I just vacuumed the gravel and did a partial water change yesterday. I have flipped it over several times, but it always stays in the same place and repostions itself 'up in the air' and seeming to be 'hanging out' of it's shell. It is alive because when I go to roll it over, it retracts. What's going on? Please help. Thanks!!! _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 9:00:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32950	From: Mark Hough	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: The main reason why I DO NOT LIKE Tetra (the Company) FW: Monthl

I don't have any hard feelings towards their product, but I do agree with you Lenny - btw, did you ever read the back of their fish food cans? Feed as much food necessary to eat in 5 to 10 minutes... unless they changed that. Anyway that is way too much food. More you feed the more they sell. And while we're at it, I guess you can say that it's an oxymoron... Feed all that food but don't change your tank water.. hmmm. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > The below email is a monthly e-minder that I signed up for with Tetra, > years > ago, to see what it was and I never did unsubscribe but every time I get > it, > I wonder how many fish Tetra killed this month??? This "e-minder program" > from Tetra is mainly marketed to newbie's which makes it even worse. > > Here is the email and I'll add my comments afterwards. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tetra [mailto:e-Minders@... <e-Minders%40tetra-fish.com>] > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:03 PM > To: Lenny Vasbinder > Subject: Monthly Aquarium Maintenance > > Hello from TetraCare. > > To keep your aquarium in tip-top condition, please be sure you're doing the > following on a regular basis: > > 1. Test the water monthly using your test kit. Is the water okay (normal > pH, zero ammonia, zero nitrite)? If not, please call us at 1-800-423-6458, > and we'll help you correct any problems. > > 2. Do a partial (25%) water change, unless you're using EasyBalance(R). Be > sure to add a water treatment such as AquaSafe(R) to the water you add to > the aquarium, as tap water is toxic to your fish. > > 3. Change the cartridge in your Power Filter every month. > > The TetraCare team is always here to help you. > > You can contact us at 1-800-423-6458. We're here 7:30 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. EDT > Monday through Friday, and Noon to 6:00 p.m. Saturday & Sunday; otherwise > leave a voice mail message, and we promise to return your call within 24 > hours! > > There's never a charge for TetraCare - we're happy to help. > > The TetraCare team > ----- END MESSAGE ------ > > OK... The first tip is OK except it doesn't talk about testing for > nitrates... which while not the perfect test to determine how good/bad the > water quality might be, it's certainly an indicator of a potential problem > and should be tested on a regular basis... especially considering the rest > of the "tips" given in this email. > > The second tip is suggesting only a monthly 25% PWC which might be OK for a > very lightly stocked aquarium... although I think even this example of a > tank needs more than 25% of fresh clean water a month. Can you imagine how > high the DOC (dissolved organic compound) level would get after the same > water is flowing through a dirty filter for a month? The WORST part of this > second tip is how Tetra says "... unless you're using EasyBalance..." which > is a product Tetra pushes on newbie's. This is a product that Tetra says > can be added to a tank and then you only have to do PWC's once every six > months. I've written about this crappy chemical before and it's nasty stuff > to put in an aquarium and subject fish to for six months. One forum thread > I read several years ago added this stuff to their guppy tank and the > guppies did not breed in the tank... so I ask... can a chemical that stops > guppies from breeding possibly be good for your fish? Maybe Tetra should > market this as birth control for livebearers... LOL > > If the first two tips didn't kill all of your fish, the third one will > likely put them over the edge. Now, Tetra, in order to sell more filter > cartridges, is telling people to trash their fully cycled and perfectly > good > and healthy filter cartridge and advising folks to put a new one in, which > will put the tank into a mini-cycle with resulting ammonia and nitrite > spikes... every month. (Read my article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" > for more info on this topic) > > In conclusion... this example tank likely has a high nitrate level, huge > levels of DOC's in the water column and is being put into a mini-cycle with > soon to come ammonia and nitrite spikes... and this is being advised by > Tetra to do this on a monthly basis. > > So... does Tetra own some of the importing and pet fish farms, so they have > an interest in killing as many fish as possible so they can sell people new > fish??? Inquiring minds want to know!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 7:30:02 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32951	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

Bill, ALL the fish you mention as wanting to keep -- with exception of the Red-Wag Platies -- are good to go, and quite do-able in your tank. These fish all prefer acid water. As you already know, the African Cichlids are not for your water. Don't even think of those Platy's though as, while they may do fairly well in slightly acid water, its doubtful that they'll prosper in yours. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help. >   > Maybe I am handling this wrong.  Steve's point is very well taken and of course, > does make perfect sense.  Since you folks have about a ton and a half more > "hands-on" experience than I do, how about this?  Lets jump ahead a little bit and > let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don't have yet?  Neon Tetra's, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra's.  That's the fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger tank, they are fine.  >   > The ones I don't have and worrying about getting are the Rams and Red-Wag Platy's.  The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but the Red-Wag Platy's are a complete no show at least around here.  The ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in the body, they almost seem > to be some type of variant.  I'm almost positive that someone in the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures of them on Group but I could be wrong.  I have been there so much I could be mistaken. >   > As you can see, it isn't so much variety, its almost just more of what I have.  An example of others?  Quite a while back I mentioned Black Tetra's, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied the other two, they just stopped eating.  Why he leaves the little tetra's I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good.  As far as Africans Cichlids go, we let them.  I don't think my water conditions could support anything in that line comfortably.  So that's it.  Suggestions?  Letm' ripe! >   > Thanks to all trying to help, >   > Bill >   >   >   > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32952	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Lenny, Bringing up the KH with baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), without bring up the GH, will only serve to cause a pH bounce with a resultant carbonate precipitation in the form of a fine white powdery substance falling on all surfaces. This will raise the pH - temporarily - but without any buffering capacity, and especially in the presence of a pH of 5.5 (or 6.0) there's nothing there to sustain that pH, which will crash right down as soon as the precipitation takes place -- and it will take place. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > \\Steve//, > > While I certainly agree that 95% of folks should follow that simple rule.... > > What fish would you suggest for Bill who has a small tank (I think 5G > now)... working on a medium sized tank (30-40G)... has well water with > almost zero KH and a very low pH of 5.5 to 6.0 after the 48 hour baseline > testing and aerating the water. > > Shouldn't he at least dose with Baking Soda to bring up the KH? > > Bill, > > If you want to do a little experimenting with this neat site that I found > recently... I haven't had a chance to vet it much yet so I haven't talked > about it much... but this database gives you the ability to search for fish > based on a large variety of parameters such as: > > Max Size, pH, Temperature, Hardness, Family, Temperament, Reproductive Type, > Swimming Area, Food Type and Biotope.... but they didn't have the KH > parameter in the database fields. > > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php? op=modload&name=database&file=index_spe > cies> &name=database&file=index_species > > On a sample search for what I know about your water, I used fish with a > maximum size of 3", pH of 6.0, Temperature of 78F, Hardness of 10 dH (I > think yours was around this level), Family of All, Temperament of Peaceful, > Reproductive Type of Egg Scatterer (I wish I could have just excluded > livebearers), Swimming area of All, Food Type of All and Biotope of All. > > Of course, you could have changed the swimming areas to look for fish that > preferred an area that you currently do not have filled up. > > Unfortunately.. or fortunately.. it came up with 19 pages of fish.... but I > happened to notice a picture of your Red-Eyed Tetras on the first page since > they were listed by Latin name - Arnoldichthys spilopterus - so they were on > the first page. > > If anyone else plays around with the Database, let me know how it works out > for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine > what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, > whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check > things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I > didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki > like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual > chemical formula. > > I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula > for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt > molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium > Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) > so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming > pools but not in aquariums. > > Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain > this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it was > quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. My concern > of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back > on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. > > I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As > far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I > can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying > to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties should not > change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, > testing is the only way to fly. > > Bill > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM > > Don't know much about it. > > Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good > for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than > what you gave also. > > Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium > Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it > has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium > Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. > > I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would > last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and > get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium > Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... > especially since you have that free limestone available. > > http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium > carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. > > It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. > > Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is > not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too > quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed > or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. > > Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. > (END SNIP) > > http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness > Want to increase your hardness? > One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. > Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of > each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and > plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small > quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the > actual KH and GH that is achieved. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also > known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic > acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily > effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling > alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a > common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of > chlorine and raise pH. > > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson > with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. > It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the > results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend > that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff > cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated > on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But > it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > > Your thoughts sir? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies > heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and > electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or > changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA > tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic > dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for > treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much > lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, > metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and > other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy > metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it > wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it > didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water > issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is > none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more > than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 10:40:29 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32953	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Vacation

I'm going to be gone for 4 or 5 days at thanksgiving.  I plan on leaving my fish without fresh food for that time.  I have done this in the past without any problems.  I was wondering if I should leave the lights off of non planted tanks, or would it be best to leave them on the timer as usual.  I don't want to have a die off of the normal algae in the tank while I am gone.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32954	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

Thanks Ray,   Sorry to say that the Platys are an old favorite.  Guess I'm going to have to love tetra's more?   Bill --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 10:23 AM Bill, ALL the fish you mention as wanting to keep -- with exception of the Red-Wag Platies -- are good to go, and quite do-able in your tank. These fish all prefer acid water. As you already know, the African Cichlids are not for your water. Don't even think of those Platy's though as, while they may do fairly well in slightly acid water, its doubtful that they'll prosper in yours. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help. >   > Maybe I am handling this wrong.  Steve's point is very well taken and of course, > does make perfect sense.  Since you folks have about a ton and a half more > "hands-on" experience than I do, how about this?  Lets jump ahead a little bit and > let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don't have yet?  Neon Tetra's, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra's.  That's the fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger tank, they are fine.  >   > The ones I don't have and worrying about getting are the Rams and Red-Wag Platy's.  The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but the Red-Wag Platy's are a complete no show at least around here.  The ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in the body, they almost seem > to be some type of variant.  I'm almost positive that someone in the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures of them on Group but I could be wrong.  I have been there so much I could be mistaken. >   > As you can see, it isn't so much variety, its almost just more of what I have.  An example of others?  Quite a while back I mentioned Black Tetra's, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied the other two, they just stopped eating.  Why he leaves the little tetra's I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good.  As far as Africans Cichlids go, we let them.  I don't think my water conditions could support anything in that line comfortably.  So that's it.  Suggestions?  Letm' ripe! >   > Thanks to all trying to help, >   > Bill >   >   >   > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32955	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Bill, I'm not sure if I'm reading you right, but I just wanted to state that Sodium Carbonate is not an acid, although as a salt (with Sodium being the metal), it will create carbonic acid when exposed to water. It appears that what you've read is another typical example of erroneous information by Wikipedia, or a half-truth leading to confusion. Here's yet another reason why not to believe these web- sites if you don't otherwise know for yourself. Its always best to rely on your own knowledge when relaying this kind of info. Your statement at the bottom supports that this compound will raise the pH (after time, after first bouncing), although will not serve to maintain it, in swimming pool use. I'll go into this further with a reply to Lenny's request. Please know that I'm not trying to shoot you down, but only to sraighten out the facts. Regards, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > More about Soda types?  Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants.  It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. >   > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you?  Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool.  It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+.  To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot.  A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance.  Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish.  But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. >   > Your thoughts sir? >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS > NAME CAS RN % > non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 > sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 > EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 > Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 > (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≠¤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:58:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Vacation

Since you don't have plants, you could leave the lights off but since you mention "the normal algae" (which technically are plants), if you want to keep the algae from dying back, then leave the lights on the timer. Also, open the drapes and allow some ambient outside light to come into the room(s) so the fish aren't startled by going from complete darkness to bright tank lights. Give them a couple of hours... or at least an hour.. of ambient lighting before the bright tank lights come on... at least that's what I do in trying to mimic Mother Nature. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Vacation I'm going to be gone for 4 or 5 days at thanksgiving. I plan on leaving my fish without fresh food for that time. I have done this in the past without any problems. I was wondering if I should leave the lights off of non planted tanks, or would it be best to leave them on the timer as usual. I don't want to have a die off of the normal algae in the tank while I am gone. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 9:58:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32957	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

I'm sorry Ray but you left the door open on this one! � If soda is not the answer (if I'm understanding you correctly?) what is?� Is there an additive on the market that can solve my problem? � Bill --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 10:33 AM Lenny, Bringing up the KH with baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) , without bring up the GH, will only serve to cause a pH bounce with a resultant carbonate precipitation in the form of a fine white powdery substance falling on all surfaces. This will raise the pH - temporarily - but without any buffering capacity, and especially in the presence of a pH of 5.5 (or 6.0) there's nothing there to sustain that pH, which will crash right down as soon as the precipitation takes place -- and it will take place. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > \\Steve//, > > While I certainly agree that 95% of folks should follow that simple rule.... > > What fish would you suggest for Bill who has a small tank (I think 5G > now)... working on a medium sized tank (30-40G)... has well water with > almost zero KH and a very low pH of 5.5 to 6.0 after the 48 hour baseline > testing and aerating the water. > > Shouldn't he at least dose with Baking Soda to bring up the KH? > > Bill, > > If you want to do a little experimenting with this neat site that I found > recently... I haven't had a chance to vet it much yet so I haven't talked > about it much... but this database gives you the ability to search for fish > based on a large variety of parameters such as: > > Max Size, pH, Temperature, Hardness, Family, Temperament, Reproductive Type, > Swimming Area, Food Type and Biotope.... but they didn't have the KH > parameter in the database fields. > > http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?op=modload > <http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php? op=modload&name= database& file=index_ spe > cies> &name=database& file=index_ species > > On a sample search for what I know about your water, I used fish with a > maximum size of 3", pH of 6.0, Temperature of 78F, Hardness of 10 dH (I > think yours was around this level), Family of All, Temperament of Peaceful, > Reproductive Type of Egg Scatterer (I wish I could have just excluded > livebearers) , Swimming area of All, Food Type of All and Biotope of All. > > Of course, you could have changed the swimming areas to look for fish that > preferred an area that you currently do not have filled up. > > Unfortunately. . or fortunately. . it came up with 19 pages of fish.... but I > happened to notice a picture of your Red-Eyed Tetras on the first page since > they were listed by Latin name - Arnoldichthys spilopterus - so they were on > the first page. > > If anyone else plays around with the Database, let me know how it works out > for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine > what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, > whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check > things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I > didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki > like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual > chemical formula. > > I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula > for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt > molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium > Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) > so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming > pools but not in aquariums. > > Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain > this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it was > quoted right from http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Sodium_carbonate . My concern > of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back > on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. > > I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As > far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I > can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying > to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties should not > change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, > testing is the only way to fly. > > Bill > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM > > Don't know much about it. > > Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good > for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than > what you gave also. > > Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium > Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it > has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium > Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. > > I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist). . which would > last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and > get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium > Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... > especially since you have that free limestone available. > > http://www.theaquar iumwiki.com/ Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium > carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. > > It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. > > Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is > not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too > quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed > or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. > > Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. > (END SNIP) > > http://aquaticconce pts.thekrib. com/Co2/index. htm#hardness > Want to increase your hardness? > One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. > Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of > each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and > plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small > quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the > actual KH and GH that is achieved. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also > known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic > acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily > effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling > alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a > common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of > chlorine and raise pH. > > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson > with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. > It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the > results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend > that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff > cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated > on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But > it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > > Your thoughts sir? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies > heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and > electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or > changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA > tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic > dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for > treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much > lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, > metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and > other chemical procedures. Purity: ���99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy > metals: ���0.001%; iron: ���0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it > wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it > didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water > issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is > none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more > than 200 gallons. That��s a lot of PWC��s. > > Bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 10:40:29 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32958	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

If I'm not mistaken, Bill has a reasonably high GH level.. it was the KH level that was almost nil. Bill, What was your GH level again? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Lenny, Bringing up the KH with baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), without bring up the GH, will only serve to cause a pH bounce with a resultant carbonate precipitation in the form of a fine white powdery substance falling on all surfaces. This will raise the pH - temporarily - but without any buffering capacity, and especially in the presence of a pH of 5.5 (or 6.0) there's nothing there to sustain that pH, which will crash right down as soon as the precipitation takes place -- and it will take place. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > \\Steve//, > > While I certainly agree that 95% of folks should follow that simple rule.... > > What fish would you suggest for Bill who has a small tank (I think 5G > now)... working on a medium sized tank (30-40G)... has well water with > almost zero KH and a very low pH of 5.5 to 6.0 after the 48 hour baseline > testing and aerating the water. > > Shouldn't he at least dose with Baking Soda to bring up the KH? > > Bill, > > If you want to do a little experimenting with this neat site that I found > recently... I haven't had a chance to vet it much yet so I haven't talked > about it much... but this database gives you the ability to search for fish > based on a large variety of parameters such as: > > Max Size, pH, Temperature, Hardness, Family, Temperament, Reproductive Type, > Swimming Area, Food Type and Biotope.... but they didn't have the KH > parameter in the database fields. > > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload> > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php? > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?> op=modload&name=database&file=index_spe > cies> &name=database&file=index_species > > On a sample search for what I know about your water, I used fish with a > maximum size of 3", pH of 6.0, Temperature of 78F, Hardness of 10 dH (I > think yours was around this level), Family of All, Temperament of Peaceful, > Reproductive Type of Egg Scatterer (I wish I could have just excluded > livebearers), Swimming area of All, Food Type of All and Biotope of All. > > Of course, you could have changed the swimming areas to look for fish that > preferred an area that you currently do not have filled up. > > Unfortunately.. or fortunately.. it came up with 19 pages of fish.... but I > happened to notice a picture of your Red-Eyed Tetras on the first page since > they were listed by Latin name - Arnoldichthys spilopterus - so they were on > the first page. > > If anyone else plays around with the Database, let me know how it works out > for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine > what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, > whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check > things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I > didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki > like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual > chemical formula. > > I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula > for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt > molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium > Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) > so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming > pools but not in aquariums. > > Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain > this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it was > quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate.> My concern > of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back > on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. > > I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As > far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I > can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying > to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties should not > change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, > testing is the only way to fly. > > Bill > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM > > Don't know much about it. > > Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good > for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than > what you gave also. > > Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium > Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it > has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium > Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. > > I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would > last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and > get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium > Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... > especially since you have that free limestone available. > > http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate > <http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate> - (START SNIP) Sodium > carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. > > It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. > > Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is > not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too > quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed > or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. > > Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. > (END SNIP) > > http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness > <http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness> > Want to increase your hardness? > One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. > Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of > each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and > plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small > quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the > actual KH and GH that is achieved. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also > known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic > acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily > effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling > alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a > common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of > chlorine and raise pH. > > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson > with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. > It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the > results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend > that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff > cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated > on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But > it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > > Your thoughts sir? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies > heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and > electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or > changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA > tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic > dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for > treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much > lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, > metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and > other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy > metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it > wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it > didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water > issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is > none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more > than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 > 10:40:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 9:43:54 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 10:00:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32959	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

PLEASE SHOOT ME DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! � � It's ok Ray, honest! I only want what is best for the fish.� In the end, that will be best for Bill Too.� If you know of something that will work, don't hesitate to inform. I am here to learn not to question!� So far I haven't made any serious moves to do anything yet.� Also "Off-List" contact?� If ok let me know.� Why?� Speed. I'm still playing mail-tag with Steve. � Bill --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 10:54 AM Bill, I'm not sure if I'm reading you right, but I just wanted to state that Sodium Carbonate is not an acid, although as a salt (with Sodium being the metal), it will create carbonic acid when exposed to water. It appears that what you've read is another typical example of erroneous information by Wikipedia, or a half-truth leading to confusion. Here's yet another reason why not to believe these web- sites if you don't otherwise know for yourself. Its always best to rely on your own knowledge when relaying this kind of info. Your statement at the bottom supports that this compound will raise the pH (after time, after first bouncing), although will not serve to maintain it, in swimming pool use. I'll go into this further with a reply to Lenny's request. Please know that I'm not trying to shoot you down, but only to sraighten out the facts. Regards, Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > More about Soda types?� Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants.� It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. > � > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you?� Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool.� It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+.� To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot.� A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance.� Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish.� But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > � > Your thoughts sir? > � > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS > NAME CAS RN % > non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 > sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 > EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 > Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 > (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: ���99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: ���0.001%; iron: �� �0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That��s a lot of PWC��s. > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 4:58:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32960	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Lenny, Aside from \\Steve's// recommendation not to mess with your water chemistry, which we should all know by now, Sodium Carbonate should not be used in the aquarium (for other members, note: I did NOT say Sodium BIcarbonate). Sodium Carbonate (and Sodium Phosphate) reacts readily with water to produce hydroxide ions. It will also precipitate Calcium and Magnesium ions from hard water, although this is not Bill's problem. Anyway, when combining water, a Bronsted (Bronsted = a compound that accepts a hydrogen ion - H+) acid with Sodium Carbonate (a Bronsted base) the results of the hydrolysis reaction are a weak acid along with a strongly ionized base. What happens in this combination is: Na2CO3 + 2H20 ---- 2Na+ + 2OH + H2CO3. For one thing, it results heavily in producing Carbonic Acid as you can see by this, which will decompose into CO2 after a while and dissipate, but not before dropping the pH and bouncing back up again after the CO2 is off-gased. In addition to creating these oxides of carbon it will also create sodium oxide (a toxic compound) when the unstable OH (hydroxyl radical) breaks down -- forming Na2O (and a free hydrogen atom). Sodium oxide will help raise the pH, but at great expense to small aquatic creatures. Hope I've been able to explain this satisfactorily, Ray -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, > whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check > things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I > didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki > like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual > chemical formula. > > I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula > for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt > molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium > Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) > so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming > pools but not in aquariums. > > Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain > this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it was > quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. My concern > of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back > on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. > > I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As > far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I > can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying > to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties should not > change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, > testing is the only way to fly. > > Bill > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM > > Don't know much about it. > > Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good > for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than > what you gave also. > > Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium > Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it > has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium > Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. > > I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would > last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and > get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium > Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... > especially since you have that free limestone available. > > http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium > carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. > > It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. > > Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is > not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too > quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed > or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. > > Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. > (END SNIP) > > http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness > Want to increase your hardness? > One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. > Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of > each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and > plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small > quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the > actual KH and GH that is achieved. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also > known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic > acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily > effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling > alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a > common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of > chlorine and raise pH. > > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson > with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. > It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the > results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend > that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff > cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated > on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But > it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > > Your thoughts sir? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies > heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and > electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or > changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA > tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic > dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for > treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much > lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, > metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and > other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy > metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it > wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it > didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water > issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is > none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more > than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 9:26:46 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32961	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

We finished at the 48 hour baseline with a 3.� At 24 it was 2. � Bill --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 11:00 AM If I'm not mistaken, Bill has a reasonably high GH level.. it was the KH level that was almost nil. Bill, What was your GH level again? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Lenny, Bringing up the KH with baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), without bring up the GH, will only serve to cause a pH bounce with a resultant carbonate precipitation in the form of a fine white powdery substance falling on all surfaces. This will raise the pH - temporarily - but without any buffering capacity, and especially in the presence of a pH of 5.5 (or 6.0) there's nothing there to sustain that pH, which will crash right down as soon as the precipitation takes place -- and it will take place. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > \\Steve//, > > While I certainly agree that 95% of folks should follow that simple rule.... > > What fish would you suggest for Bill who has a small tank (I think 5G > now)... working on a medium sized tank (30-40G)... has well water with > almost zero KH and a very low pH of 5.5 to 6.0 after the 48 hour baseline > testing and aerating the water. > > Shouldn't he at least dose with Baking Soda to bring up the KH? > > Bill, > > If you want to do a little experimenting with this neat site that I found > recently... I haven't had a chance to vet it much yet so I haven't talked > about it much... but this database gives you the ability to search for fish > based on a large variety of parameters such as: > > Max Size, pH, Temperature, Hardness, Family, Temperament, Reproductive Type, > Swimming Area, Food Type and Biotope.... but they didn't have the KH > parameter in the database fields. > > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload> > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php? > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?> op=modload&name=database&file=index_spe > cies> &name=database&file=index_species > > On a sample search for what I know about your water, I used fish with a > maximum size of 3", pH of 6.0, Temperature of 78F, Hardness of 10 dH (I > think yours was around this level), Family of All, Temperament of Peaceful, > Reproductive Type of Egg Scatterer (I wish I could have just excluded > livebearers), Swimming area of All, Food Type of All and Biotope of All. > > Of course, you could have changed the swimming areas to look for fish that > preferred an area that you currently do not have filled up. > > Unfortunately.. or fortunately.. it came up with 19 pages of fish.... but I > happened to notice a picture of your Red-Eyed Tetras on the first page since > they were listed by Latin name - Arnoldichthys spilopterus - so they were on > the first page. > > If anyone else plays around with the Database, let me know how it works out > for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine > what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, > whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check > things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I > didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki > like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual > chemical formula. > > I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula > for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt > molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium > Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) > so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming > pools but not in aquariums. > > Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain > this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it was > quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate.> My concern > of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back > on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. > > I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As > far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I > can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying > to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties should not > change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, > testing is the only way to fly. > > Bill > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM > > Don't know much about it. > > Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good > for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than > what you gave also. > > Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium > Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it > has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium > Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. > > I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would > last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and > get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium > Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... > especially since you have that free limestone available. > > http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate > <http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate> - (START SNIP) Sodium > carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. > > It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. > > Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is > not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too > quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed > or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. > > Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. > (END SNIP) > > http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness > <http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness> > Want to increase your hardness? > One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. > Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of > each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and > plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small > quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the > actual KH and GH that is achieved. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also > known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic > acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily > effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling > alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a > common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of > chlorine and raise pH. > > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson > with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. > It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the > results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend > that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff > cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated > on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But > it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > > Your thoughts sir? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies > heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and > electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or > changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA > tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic > dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for > treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much > lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, > metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and > other chemical procedures. Purity: ���99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy > metals: ���0.001%; iron: ���0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it > wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it > didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water > issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is > none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more > than 200 gallons. That��s a lot of PWC��s. > > Bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 > 10:40:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 9:43:54 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 10:00:10 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32962	From: Alina	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: How to treat a tank

Hi, I recently set up a 10-gal tank as a quarantine/hospital tank. Well, I have four fish in it in quarantine. My funny jumping swordtails (2) and two platys. There is one platy whose tail has a feathery growth on it. It's very airy, a little bit longish, not quite like a cottonball, more like a fuzzy thread. I've been searching online and it is probably a fungus of some sort. So I'm thinking I want to treat it with Pimafix first, and see how it goes. Or should I just go for the gusto and use something stronger? I have never treated a tank before as I am still pretty new in this hobby. So I ask you guys: * Do I remove my carbon filter for this and if so, where can I put it so as not to lose my good bacteria? I have another tank...can I float it in there? Just trying to figure out how you guys treat your tanks and what you do with the filters when they need to be removed. *Finally, how long would you normally treat for this, and do I do daily PWC for awhile, as I treat? Thanks Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32963	From: sunfish3714	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Zebrafish Breeding

How do you breed zebrafish? What equipment do I need, and where can I find this equipment? How do you put the equipment together in the tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32964	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Vacation

Thanks Lenny,   My lights are set to come on at 10 am and go off at 8 pm.  The normal ambient room lighting takes care of mimicking Mother Nature in the morning and I leave the room lamps on for an extra hour in the evening after the tank lights go off to mimic Mother Nature then also.  My wife and I are away at least 5 or 6 mornings a week as we go to play tennis and workout leaving home at 5:45 am. So to enjoy the fish it is best if we schedule their lights on a little later in the morning.  The fish usually associate feeding time shortly after the lights come on.  That is way I thought it might be best to leave the tank lights off while I am gone.  But I don't want to kill off the algae if that would cause a problem. Jimmy ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:58:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Vacation Since you don't have plants, you could leave the lights off but since you mention "the normal algae" (which technically are plants), if you want to keep the algae from dying back, then leave the lights on the timer. Also, open the drapes and allow some ambient outside light to come into the room(s) so the fish aren't startled by going from complete darkness to bright tank lights. Give them a couple of hours... or at least an hour.. of ambient lighting before the bright tank lights come on... at least that's what I do in trying to mimic Mother Nature. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:41 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Vacation I'm going to be gone for 4 or 5 days at thanksgiving. I plan on leaving my fish without fresh food for that time. I have done this in the past without any problems. I was wondering if I should leave the lights off of non planted tanks, or would it be best to leave them on the timer as usual. I don't want to have a die off of the normal algae in the tank while I am gone. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 9:58:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Vacation

Well, it depends on if you like or don't mind the algae. I don't mind it in my tanks as long as it's controlled. I think it makes things look more natural and it helps with keeping the water cleaner since it sucks up phosphates, nitrates, CO2, etc... and puts out O2 when the lights are on. I think it would be better, in your case, to leave the lights on the timer. If you were going to do a tank black-out to try and kill off algae while you were home to monitor things, that would be OK but I wouldn't want to kill off the algae while you're gone since it might adversely affect things. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Vacation Thanks Lenny, My lights are set to come on at 10 am and go off at 8 pm. The normal ambient room lighting takes care of mimicking Mother Nature in the morning and I leave the room lamps on for an extra hour in the evening after the tank lights go off to mimic Mother Nature then also. My wife and I are away at least 5 or 6 mornings a week as we go to play tennis and workout leaving home at 5:45 am. So to enjoy the fish it is best if we schedule their lights on a little later in the morning. The fish usually associate feeding time shortly after the lights come on. That is way I thought it might be best to leave the tank lights off while I am gone. But I don't want to kill off the algae if that would cause a problem. Jimmy ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:58:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Vacation Since you don't have plants, you could leave the lights off but since you mention "the normal algae" (which technically are plants), if you want to keep the algae from dying back, then leave the lights on the timer. Also, open the drapes and allow some ambient outside light to come into the room(s) so the fish aren't startled by going from complete darkness to bright tank lights. Give them a couple of hours... or at least an hour.. of ambient lighting before the bright tank lights come on... at least that's what I do in trying to mimic Mother Nature. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:41 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Vacation I'm going to be gone for 4 or 5 days at thanksgiving. I plan on leaving my fish without fresh food for that time. I have done this in the past without any problems. I was wondering if I should leave the lights off of non planted tanks, or would it be best to leave them on the timer as usual. I don't want to have a die off of the normal algae in the tank while I am gone. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-0, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:23:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32966	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Bill, Sorry for not being conclusive on this one. I was just about to say here to use calcium carbonates instead, it having a buffering capacity (I did say that Sodium Bicarbonate, not having buffering capacity, will not sustain any raised pH in the absence of buffering capacity), but Lenny's next message reminds me that your GH (buffering capacity) is high -- a situation rarely encountered with such a low pH. I believe baking soda should work then in this case, without any bouncing. Not ordinarily recommended to alter your pH dramatically, with a high buffering capacity you should be able to bring your pH up to a more moderate level, although I would certainly not attempt going into the alkaline range. Still, this will not be the easiest thing to maintain, if you're not used to it (the reason why its usually not recommended). You would need to raise the pH very slowly, with small additions of baking soda, in increments of no more than a pH of 0.2 at a time (preferably, per day) -- keeping a log on exactly how much you use to bring the pH up to your desired level. Keeping that base figure in mind of the total amount used to bring your pH up to that value; every time you do a PWC, you'll need to know exactly how much water you are drawing off. Then, as you add the new water, you'll need to know what percentage of your tank this water represents, and take that same percentage of your total amount of baking soda you added to replace this same amount which you just discarded. Now you know why its best not to mess with it, if you don't need to. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > I'm sorry Ray but you left the door open on this one! >   > If soda is not the answer (if I'm understanding you correctly?) > what is?  Is there an additive on the market that can solve my problem? >   > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 10:33 AM > > > > > > > Lenny, Bringing up the KH with baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) , > without bring up the GH, will only serve to cause a pH bounce with a > resultant carbonate precipitation in the form of a fine white powdery > substance falling on all surfaces. This will raise the pH - > temporarily - but without any buffering capacity, and especially in > the presence of a pH of 5.5 (or 6.0) there's nothing there to sustain > that pH, which will crash right down as soon as the precipitation > takes place -- and it will take place. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > While I certainly agree that 95% of folks should follow that simple > rule.... > > > > What fish would you suggest for Bill who has a small tank (I think > 5G > > now)... working on a medium sized tank (30-40G)... has well water > with > > almost zero KH and a very low pH of 5.5 to 6.0 after the 48 hour > baseline > > testing and aerating the water. > > > > Shouldn't he at least dose with Baking Soda to bring up the KH? > > > > Bill, > > > > If you want to do a little experimenting with this neat site that I > found > > recently... I haven't had a chance to vet it much yet so I haven't > talked > > about it much... but this database gives you the ability to search > for fish > > based on a large variety of parameters such as: > > > > Max Size, pH, Temperature, Hardness, Family, Temperament, > Reproductive Type, > > Swimming Area, Food Type and Biotope.... but they didn't have the KH > > parameter in the database fields. > > > > http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?op=modload > > <http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php? > op=modload&name= database& file=index_ spe > > cies> &name=database& file=index_ species > > > > On a sample search for what I know about your water, I used fish > with a > > maximum size of 3", pH of 6.0, Temperature of 78F, Hardness of 10 > dH (I > > think yours was around this level), Family of All, Temperament of > Peaceful, > > Reproductive Type of Egg Scatterer (I wish I could have just > excluded > > livebearers) , Swimming area of All, Food Type of All and Biotope of > All. > > > > Of course, you could have changed the swimming areas to look for > fish that > > preferred an area that you currently do not have filled up. > > > > Unfortunately. . or fortunately. . it came up with 19 pages of > fish.... but I > > happened to notice a picture of your Red-Eyed Tetras on the first > page since > > they were listed by Latin name - Arnoldichthys spilopterus - so > they were on > > the first page. > > > > If anyone else plays around with the Database, let me know how it > works out > > for you. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. > Determine > > what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, > > whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple > check > > things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... > and I > > didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple > Wiki > > like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the > actual > > chemical formula. > > > > I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct > formula > > for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt > > molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda > (Sodium > > Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of > Hydrogen) > > so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in > swimming > > pools but not in aquariums. > > > > Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will > explain > > this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > > > > > I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it > was > > quoted right from http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Sodium_carbonate . > My concern > > of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one > quoted back > > on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. > > > > I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone > later. As > > far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if > ever, that I > > can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of > trying > > to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties > should not > > change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and > healthy, > > testing is the only way to fly. > > > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM > > > > Don't know much about it. > > > > Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't > look good > > for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical > formula than > > what you gave also. > > > > Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead > of Sodium > > Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula > NaHCO3 so it > > has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where > the Sodium > > Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. > > > > I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist). . which > would > > last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. > lol.. and > > get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour > (Calcium > > Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your > life... > > especially since you have that free limestone available. > > > > http://www.theaquar iumwiki.com/ Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) > Sodium > > carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic > acid.. > > > > It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. > > > > Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if > there is > > not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it > rises too > > quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly > stressed > > or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is > recommended. > > > > Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the > water. > > (END SNIP) > > > > http://aquaticconce pts.thekrib. com/Co2/index. htm#hardness > > Want to increase your hardness? > > One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 > liters of > > water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general > hardness. > > Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 > liters of > > water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different > proportions of > > each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the > fish and > > plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure > small > > quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to > verify the > > actual KH and GH that is achieved. > > (END SNIP) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium > carbonate" (also > > known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of > carbonic > > acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which > readily > > effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a > cooling > > alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many > plants. It is a > > common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic > effects of > > chlorine and raise pH. > > > > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry > lesson > > with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming > pool. > > It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. > To get the > > results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A > friend > > that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, > great stuff > > cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was > predicated > > on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT > Fish. But > > it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > > > > Your thoughts sir? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & > detoxifies > > heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe > Vera and > > electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium > or > > changing water. > > > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % > non > > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98- 7 > 1-5 EDTA > > tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END > SNIP) > > > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate > is basic > > dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might > need it for > > treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine > at a much > > lower cost. > > > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ > product/34103 > > > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion > exchange, > > metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric > titration, and > > other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. > Contaminants: Heavy > > metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > > (END SNIP) > > > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any > buffers so it > > wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if > it > > didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft > water > > issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and > under > > Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com] > > On Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, > Inc > > > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they > gave it > > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway > there is > > none. > > > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a > gallon of > > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to > treat more > > than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > > Tested on: 11/12/2008 10:40:29 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32967	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Oh OK. Well 3 dH for GH isn't "reasonably high" as I first thought it was higher... but it could still be high enough. I'll let Ray chime in on suggestions for KH levels, and whether he thinks it is needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc We finished at the 48 hour baseline with a 3. At 24 it was 2. Bill --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 11:00 AM If I'm not mistaken, Bill has a reasonably high GH level.. it was the KH level that was almost nil. Bill, What was your GH level again? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Lenny, Bringing up the KH with baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), without bring up the GH, will only serve to cause a pH bounce with a resultant carbonate precipitation in the form of a fine white powdery substance falling on all surfaces. This will raise the pH - temporarily - but without any buffering capacity, and especially in the presence of a pH of 5.5 (or 6.0) there's nothing there to sustain that pH, which will crash right down as soon as the precipitation takes place -- and it will take place. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > \\Steve//, > > While I certainly agree that 95% of folks should follow that simple rule.... > > What fish would you suggest for Bill who has a small tank (I think 5G > now)... working on a medium sized tank (30-40G)... has well water with > almost zero KH and a very low pH of 5.5 to 6.0 after the 48 hour baseline > testing and aerating the water. > > Shouldn't he at least dose with Baking Soda to bring up the KH? > > Bill, > > If you want to do a little experimenting with this neat site that I found > recently... I haven't had a chance to vet it much yet so I haven't talked > about it much... but this database gives you the ability to search for fish > based on a large variety of parameters such as: > > Max Size, pH, Temperature, Hardness, Family, Temperament, Reproductive Type, > Swimming Area, Food Type and Biotope.... but they didn't have the KH > parameter in the database fields. > > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload> > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php? > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?> op=modload&name=database&file=index_spe > cies> &name=database&file=index_species > > On a sample search for what I know about your water, I used fish with a > maximum size of 3", pH of 6.0, Temperature of 78F, Hardness of 10 dH (I > think yours was around this level), Family of All, Temperament of Peaceful, > Reproductive Type of Egg Scatterer (I wish I could have just excluded > livebearers), Swimming area of All, Food Type of All and Biotope of All. > > Of course, you could have changed the swimming areas to look for fish that > preferred an area that you currently do not have filled up. > > Unfortunately.. or fortunately.. it came up with 19 pages of fish.... but I > happened to notice a picture of your Red-Eyed Tetras on the first page since > they were listed by Latin name - Arnoldichthys spilopterus - so they were on > the first page. > > If anyone else plays around with the Database, let me know how it works out > for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine > what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, > whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check > things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I > didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki > like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual > chemical formula. > > I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula > for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt > molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium > Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) > so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming > pools but not in aquariums. > > Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain > this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it was > quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate.> My concern > of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back > on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. > > I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As > far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I > can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying > to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties should not > change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, > testing is the only way to fly. > > Bill > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM > > Don't know much about it. > > Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good > for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than > what you gave also. > > Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium > Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it > has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium > Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. > > I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would > last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and > get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium > Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... > especially since you have that free limestone available. > > http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate > <http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate> - (START SNIP) Sodium > carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. > > It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. > > Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is > not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too > quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed > or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. > > Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. > (END SNIP) > > http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness > <http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness> > Want to increase your hardness? > One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. > Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of > each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and > plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small > quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the > actual KH and GH that is achieved. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also > known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic > acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily > effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling > alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a > common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of > chlorine and raise pH. > > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson > with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. > It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the > results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend > that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff > cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated > on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But > it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > > Your thoughts sir? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies > heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and > electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or > changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA > tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic > dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for > treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much > lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, > metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and > other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy > metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it > wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it > didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water > issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is > none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more > than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/12/2008 > 10:40:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 9:43:54 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32968	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank

I would use the Pimafix first while further diagnosing things. Once you are certain of the diagnosis, you could bump up the meds.. if the Pimafix isn't working but it should do the job. You do not need to remove the filters.. only the carbon out of the cartridge if that is what you have. You should still have the majority of the good nitrifying bacteria living on the sponges/floss pads/etc. Some will live on the carbon but the majority will be on the other filter media so you shouldn't have a problem.. but test the ammonia for a couple of days to make sure. This is another reason I keep extra filter media in the reservoirs of my filter systems. DO NOT move that filter media to any other tank as you could transfer the pathogen (fungus?) to the otherwise healthy tank. In fact, you should trash the carbon since you don't want to transfer the pathogen back into your sick tank once you get it well. Follow the instructions on the bottle. The standard treatment (according to my bottle) is 5ml per 10G with additional 5ml per 10G per day for 7 days. Then do a 25% PWC. Repeat treatment if necessary for up to another 7 days. If you don't see marked improvement after 7 days, you might want to consider something stronger but hopefully you're catching this early enough so the Pimafix will do the job. What kind of filter system (make/model) do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How to treat a tank Hi, I recently set up a 10-gal tank as a quarantine/hospital tank. Well, I have four fish in it in quarantine. My funny jumping swordtails (2) and two platys. There is one platy whose tail has a feathery growth on it. It's very airy, a little bit longish, not quite like a cottonball, more like a fuzzy thread. I've been searching online and it is probably a fungus of some sort. So I'm thinking I want to treat it with Pimafix first, and see how it goes. Or should I just go for the gusto and use something stronger? I have never treated a tank before as I am still pretty new in this hobby. So I ask you guys: * Do I remove my carbon filter for this and if so, where can I put it so as not to lose my good bacteria? I have another tank...can I float it in there? Just trying to figure out how you guys treat your tanks and what you do with the filters when they need to be removed. *Finally, how long would you normally treat for this, and do I do daily PWC for awhile, as I treat? Thanks Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-0, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:38:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32969	From: bill1433	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Ray, � I can't speak for the rest of the boys, but I got it clear enough, don't use it �and stay with the baking soda.� Correct?� I'd like to use nothing but I'm afraid �to try it.� With this kind of low Ph I'm afraid the fish might go into shock or I would! � Steve's point is well taken but truth be told, I guess in the end all you can do is try.� I PWC at only one gallon of water (the tank is only 4) and I'm think maybe try a PWC � with the water at only a 1/2 gallon and see what happens. � � � Got time for a riddle?????????????????? � What's the best think about watching your fish? � There's no commercials! � � � Bill --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 11:49 AM Lenny, Aside from \\Steve's// recommendation not to mess with your water chemistry, which we should all know by now, Sodium Carbonate should not be used in the aquarium (for other members, note: I did NOT say Sodium BIcarbonate) . Sodium Carbonate (and Sodium Phosphate) reacts readily with water to produce hydroxide ions. It will also precipitate Calcium and Magnesium ions from hard water, although this is not Bill's problem. Anyway, when combining water, a Bronsted (Bronsted = a compound that accepts a hydrogen ion - H+) acid with Sodium Carbonate (a Bronsted base) the results of the hydrolysis reaction are a weak acid along with a strongly ionized base. What happens in this combination is: Na2CO3 + 2H20 ---- 2Na+ + 2OH + H2CO3. For one thing, it results heavily in producing Carbonic Acid as you can see by this, which will decompose into CO2 after a while and dissipate, but not before dropping the pH and bouncing back up again after the CO2 is off-gased. In addition to creating these oxides of carbon it will also create sodium oxide (a toxic compound) when the unstable OH (hydroxyl radical) breaks down -- forming Na2O (and a free hydrogen atom). Sodium oxide will help raise the pH, but at great expense to small aquatic creatures. Hope I've been able to explain this satisfactorily, Ray -- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, > whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check > things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I > didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki > like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual > chemical formula. > > I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula > for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt > molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium > Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) > so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming > pools but not in aquariums. > > Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain > this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it was > quoted right from http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Sodium_carbonate . My concern > of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back > on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. > > I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As > far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I > can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying > to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties should not > change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, > testing is the only way to fly. > > Bill > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM > > Don't know much about it. > > Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good > for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than > what you gave also. > > Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium > Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it > has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium > Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. > > I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist). . which would > last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and > get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium > Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... > especially since you have that free limestone available. > > http://www.theaquar iumwiki.com/ Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium > carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. > > It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. > > Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is > not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too > quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed > or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. > > Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. > (END SNIP) > > http://aquaticconce pts.thekrib. com/Co2/index. htm#hardness > Want to increase your hardness? > One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. > Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of > each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and > plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small > quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the > actual KH and GH that is achieved. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also > known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic > acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily > effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling > alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a > common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of > chlorine and raise pH. > > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson > with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. > It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the > results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend > that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff > cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated > on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But > it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > > Your thoughts sir? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies > heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and > electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or > changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA > tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic > dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for > treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much > lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, > metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and > other chemical procedures. Purity: ���99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy > metals: ���0.001%; iron: ���0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it > wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it > didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water > issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is > none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more > than 200 gallons. That��s a lot of PWC��s. > > Bill > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 9:26:46 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32970	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

In a message dated 11/13/2008 10:07:56 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@... writes: If you know of something that will work, don't hesitate to inform. Well, to jump in when I really don't know much... I use NovAqua water treatment, it puts the water at (what I thought was perfect??) 7.5 PH, but I only use it for freshwater, since salt likes it higher :) I have been known to put a bit of baking soda in the salt water tank *blushes* But, I am learning :) Laura in KY **************Get movies delivered to your mailbox. One month free from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32971	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Bill, With a GH of only between 2 and 3, there is not enough buffering capacity to sustain your pH at any high level. You could try adding a small quantity of baking soda to bring the pH up to 6.2 - 6.4 (if you're lucky), but adding much more will result in no further sustained rise in pH (although it will temporarily come up, only to go back down in short time) -- with precipitation of the excess carbonates. You need to raise the GH as well. As Lenny suggests in his post of last night (around 7:30PM), "to raise both GH and KH simultaeneously, add calcium carbonate (CaCO3)," and/or, add crushed coral (in a nylon bag) to you filter) -- this latter method being much slower, albeit stable. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Ray, >   > I can't speak for the rest of the boys, but I got it clear enough, don't use it >  and stay with the baking soda.  Correct?  I'd like to use nothing but I'm afraid >  to try it.  With this kind of low Ph I'm afraid the fish might go into shock or I would! >   > Steve's point is well taken but truth be told, I guess in the end all you can do is try.  I PWC at only one gallon of water (the tank is only 4) and I'm think maybe try a PWC >   > with the water at only a 1/2 gallon and see what happens. >   >   >   > Got time for a riddle?????????????????? >   > What's the best think about watching your fish? >   > There's no commercials! >   >   >   > Bill > --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 11:49 AM > > > > > > > Lenny, Aside from \\Steve's// recommendation not to mess with your > water chemistry, which we should all know by now, Sodium Carbonate > should not be used in the aquarium (for other members, note: I did > NOT say Sodium BIcarbonate) . Sodium Carbonate (and Sodium Phosphate) > reacts readily with water to produce hydroxide ions. It will also > precipitate Calcium and Magnesium ions from hard water, although this > is not Bill's problem. Anyway, when combining water, a Bronsted > (Bronsted = a compound that accepts a hydrogen ion - H+) acid with > Sodium Carbonate (a Bronsted base) the results of the hydrolysis > reaction are a weak acid along with a strongly ionized base. > > What happens in this combination is: Na2CO3 + 2H20 ---- 2Na+ + 2OH + > H2CO3. For one thing, it results heavily in producing Carbonic Acid > as you can see by this, which will decompose into CO2 after a while > and dissipate, but not before dropping the pH and bouncing back up > again after the CO2 is off-gased. In addition to creating these > oxides of carbon it will also create sodium oxide (a toxic compound) > when the unstable OH (hydroxyl radical) breaks down -- forming Na2O > (and a free hydrogen atom). Sodium oxide will help raise the pH, but > at great expense to small aquatic creatures. Hope I've been able to > explain this satisfactorily, Ray > > -- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, > > whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple > check > > things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... > and I > > didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple > Wiki > > like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the > actual > > chemical formula. > > > > I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct > formula > > for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt > > molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda > (Sodium > > Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of > Hydrogen) > > so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in > swimming > > pools but not in aquariums. > > > > Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will > explain > > this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > > > > > I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it > was > > quoted right from http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Sodium_carbonate . > My concern > > of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one > quoted back > > on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. > > > > I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone > later. As > > far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if > ever, that I > > can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of > trying > > to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties > should not > > change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and > healthy, > > testing is the only way to fly. > > > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM > > > > Don't know much about it. > > > > Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't > look good > > for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical > formula than > > what you gave also. > > > > Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead > of Sodium > > Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula > NaHCO3 so it > > has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where > the Sodium > > Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. > > > > I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist). . which > would > > last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. > lol.. and > > get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour > (Calcium > > Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your > life... > > especially since you have that free limestone available. > > > > http://www.theaquar iumwiki.com/ Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) > Sodium > > carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic > acid.. > > > > It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. > > > > Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if > there is > > not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it > rises too > > quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly > stressed > > or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is > recommended. > > > > Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the > water. > > (END SNIP) > > > > http://aquaticconce pts.thekrib. com/Co2/index. htm#hardness > > Want to increase your hardness? > > One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 > liters of > > water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general > hardness. > > Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 > liters of > > water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different > proportions of > > each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the > fish and > > plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure > small > > quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to > verify the > > actual KH and GH that is achieved. > > (END SNIP) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium > carbonate" (also > > known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of > carbonic > > acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which > readily > > effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a > cooling > > alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many > plants. It is a > > common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic > effects of > > chlorine and raise pH. > > > > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry > lesson > > with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming > pool. > > It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. > To get the > > results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A > friend > > that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, > great stuff > > cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was > predicated > > on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT > Fish. But > > it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > > > > Your thoughts sir? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & > detoxifies > > heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe > Vera and > > electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium > or > > changing water. > > > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % > non > > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98- 7 > 1-5 EDTA > > tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END > SNIP) > > > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate > is basic > > dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might > need it for > > treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine > at a much > > lower cost. > > > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ > product/34103 > > > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion > exchange, > > metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric > titration, and > > other chemical procedures. Purity: ≥99% by titration. > Contaminants: Heavy > > metals: ≤0.001%; iron: ≤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > > (END SNIP) > > > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any > buffers so it > > wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if > it > > didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft > water > > issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and > under > > Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com] > > On Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, > Inc > > > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they > gave it > > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway > there is > > none. > > > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a > gallon of > > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to > treat more > > than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > > Tested on: 11/12/2008 9:26:46 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32972	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Vacation

Thanks Lenny, I also like the looks a little algae gives a tank.  At first I thought everything should stay looking like it did when first added to the tank.  Then I began to realize that as the tank aged it even looked better, more natural.  As long as the water looks clean and clear it is better to have the plants and rocks showing some algae (like you said "as long as it's controlled").   One of my smaller tanks was showing some hair algae that seemed to be getting out of control.  I cut back on the lights from 10 to 8 hours a day and cut back on the amount of food I was feeding and the algae cleared up within a couple of days.  The tank only has two Honey groumis in it so it was harder to feed properly. Jimmy ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:23:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Vacation Well, it depends on if you like or don't mind the algae. I don't mind it in my tanks as long as it's controlled. I think it makes things look more natural and it helps with keeping the water cleaner since it sucks up phosphates, nitrates, CO2, etc... and puts out O2 when the lights are on. I think it would be better, in your case, to leave the lights on the timer. If you were going to do a tank black-out to try and kill off algae while you were home to monitor things, that would be OK but I wouldn't want to kill off the algae while you're gone since it might adversely affect things. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot.. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Vacation Thanks Lenny, My lights are set to come on at 10 am and go off at 8 pm. The normal ambient room lighting takes care of mimicking Mother Nature in the morning and I leave the room lamps on for an extra hour in the evening after the tank lights go off to mimic Mother Nature then also.. My wife and I are away at least 5 or 6 mornings a week as we go to play tennis and workout leaving home at 5:45 am. So to enjoy the fish it is best if we schedule their lights on a little later in the morning. The fish usually associate feeding time shortly after the lights come on. That is way I thought it might be best to leave the tank lights off while I am gone. But I don't want to kill off the algae if that would cause a problem. Jimmy ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:58:40 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Vacation Since you don't have plants, you could leave the lights off but since you mention "the normal algae" (which technically are plants), if you want to keep the algae from dying back, then leave the lights on the timer. Also, open the drapes and allow some ambient outside light to come into the room(s) so the fish aren't startled by going from complete darkness to bright tank lights. Give them a couple of hours... or at least an hour.. of ambient lighting before the bright tank lights come on... at least that's what I do in trying to mimic Mother Nature. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:41 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups.. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Vacation I'm going to be gone for 4 or 5 days at thanksgiving. I plan on leaving my fish without fresh food for that time. I have done this in the past without any problems. I was wondering if I should leave the lights off of non planted tanks, or would it be best to leave them on the timer as usual. I don't want to have a die off of the normal algae in the tank while I am gone. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-0, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:23:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32973	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Zebrafish Breeding

Zebra Danios are fairly easy to breed. To start with, select 3 males and one ripe female (extra females will mainly eat the eggs). Separate the sexes and condition them well on good foods for about a week. In the meantime, prepare the spawning tank. A long tank (such as a 15 or even a 20 Long) is adviseable, although a 10 gallon may do in a pinch. To this tank, add a sufficient amount of the smallest marbles you can find (I've seen some marbles that are smaller than the "normal" size), but they should be consistent. Cover the entire bottom with them, not leaving any spaces, to a depth of about 1" -- again, an EVEN layering. This will prevent the breeders from gaining access to the eggs s they fall between the marbles (the eggs are non-adhesive). Larger marbles can, on occasion, allow a fish to get down between them where they could get trapped. This breeding tank should be situated where it will get good light, preferably morning sun where possible. Add freshly treated (dechlorinated) water to the tank, to a depth of 4" over the marbles; this too will prevent the fish from having time to get the eggs before they fall between the marbles. An alternate method is to make a "raft" of rigid plastic rods (rigid tubing) of approximately 1/4" diameter, the length of the tank, spacing the rods no wider apart than 1/8" (or less than the width of any one fish), fastened together with a weave of 16 gauge aluminum wire. This is to rest on two perpendicular rods (width-wise) at either end of the tank to support the raft up off the bottom. Again, keep the water level at no more than 4" over the rods (here's were a submersible heater comes in handy). While Zebras will breed between 72 o and 77 o, for best results, raise the temperature to the upper part of this range (and their holding tanks too). Introduce only the female after the weeks conditioning period, the day ahead of the males -- which can be added in the evening of that day at lights out time. The first morning light should have them spawning. If you're using a wrought iron stand, having just the four angle iron supports as the top, after several hours, you should be able to look up through the bottom of your spawning tank and see the eggs scattered on the bottom. When this is seen, you should remove the fish if they are finished spawning. At this time, you can add some acriflavin to help prevent the eggs from fungusing. You can remove the raft at this time and azdd an airstone. The fry hatch in about 2 days and will start eating after another 2 days. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sunfish3714" <sunfish3714@...> wrote: > > How do you breed zebrafish? What equipment do I need, and where can I > find this equipment? How do you put the equipment together in the tank? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32974	From: Alina	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank

I have a Whisper (Tetra) 15-20 filter. I'll start tonight. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would use the Pimafix first while further diagnosing things. Once you are > certain of the diagnosis, you could bump up the meds.. if the Pimafix isn't > working but it should do the job. > > You do not need to remove the filters.. only the carbon out of the cartridge > if that is what you have. You should still have the majority of the good > nitrifying bacteria living on the sponges/floss pads/etc. Some will live on > the carbon but the majority will be on the other filter media so you > shouldn't have a problem.. but test the ammonia for a couple of days to make > sure. This is another reason I keep extra filter media in the reservoirs of > my filter systems. > > DO NOT move that filter media to any other tank as you could transfer the > pathogen (fungus?) to the otherwise healthy tank. In fact, you should trash > the carbon since you don't want to transfer the pathogen back into your sick > tank once you get it well. > > Follow the instructions on the bottle. The standard treatment (according to > my bottle) is 5ml per 10G with additional 5ml per 10G per day for 7 days. > Then do a 25% PWC. Repeat treatment if necessary for up to another 7 days. > > If you don't see marked improvement after 7 days, you might want to consider > something stronger but hopefully you're catching this early enough so the > Pimafix will do the job. > > What kind of filter system (make/model) do you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] How to treat a tank > > > Hi, > > I recently set up a 10-gal tank as a quarantine/hospital tank. Well, I have > four fish in it in quarantine. My funny jumping swordtails (2) and two > platys. There is one platy whose tail has a feathery growth on it. It's very > airy, a little bit longish, not quite like a cottonball, more like a fuzzy > thread. > > I've been searching online and it is probably a fungus of some sort. > > So I'm thinking I want to treat it with Pimafix first, and see how it goes. > Or should I just go for the gusto and use something stronger? > > I have never treated a tank before as I am still pretty new in this hobby. > So I ask you guys: > > * Do I remove my carbon filter for this and if so, where can I put it so as > not to lose my good bacteria? I have another tank...can I float it in there? > Just trying to figure out how you guys treat your tanks and what you do with > the filters when they need to be removed. > > *Finally, how long would you normally treat for this, and do I do daily PWC > for awhile, as I treat? > > Thanks > > Alina > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-0, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:38:12 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32975	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

platy's and molly's both like higher PH (but can adjust to slightly lower over time) 7 or higher, I had to tell myself no to them as well Bill if that makes you feel any better ;) I love molly's myself but with my PH being close to 6, I didn't want to chance killing them after all my platy's died. They also like some salt in their tank which if your other fish don't then that can cause issues. Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Thanks Ray, > > Sorry to say that the Platys are an old favorite. > Guess I'm going to have to love tetra's more? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone > trying to help me > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 10:23 AM > > Bill, ALL the fish you mention as wanting to keep -- with exception > of the Red-Wag Platies -- are good to go, and quite do-able in your > tank. These fish all prefer acid water. As you already know, the > African Cichlids are not for your water. Don't even think of those > Platy's though as, while they may do fairly well in slightly acid > water, its doubtful that they'll prosper in yours. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help. > > > > Maybe I am handling this wrong. Steve's point is very well taken > and of course, > > does make perfect sense. Since you folks have about a ton and a > half more > > "hands-on" experience than I do, how about this? Lets jump ahead a > little bit and > > let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don't have > yet? Neon Tetra's, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra's. That's the > fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger > tank, they are fine. > > > > The ones I don't have and worrying about getting are the Rams and > Red-Wag Platy's. The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but > the Red-Wag Platy's are a complete no show at least around here. The > ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in > the body, they almost seem > > to be some type of variant. I'm almost positive that someone in > the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures > of them on Group but I could be wrong. I have been there so much I > could be mistaken. > > > > As you can see, it isn't so much variety, its almost just more of > what I have. An example of others? Quite a while back I mentioned > Black Tetra's, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied > the other two, they just stopped eating. Why he leaves the little > tetra's I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good. As far as > Africans Cichlids go, we let them. I don't think my water conditions > could support anything in that line comfortably. So that's it. > Suggestions? Letm' ripe! > > > > Thanks to all trying to help, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32976	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Well, I just added two "granite" rocks my sister brought back for me from upstate New York - actually impure gneiss with a limestone element. They fizz weakly in toilet bowl cleaner. Grin. If my ph and kh go up and I have to take the rocks out of the tank, I could send them to Bill. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:33 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Lenny, Bringing up the KH with baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), without bring up the GH, will only serve to cause a pH bounce with a resultant carbonate precipitation in the form of a fine white powdery substance falling on all surfaces. This will raise the pH - temporarily - but without any buffering capacity, and especially in the presence of a pH of 5.5 (or 6.0) there's nothing there to sustain that pH, which will crash right down as soon as the precipitation takes place -- and it will take place. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > \\Steve//, > > While I certainly agree that 95% of folks should follow that simple rule.... > > What fish would you suggest for Bill who has a small tank (I think 5G > now)... working on a medium sized tank (30-40G)... has well water with > almost zero KH and a very low pH of 5.5 to 6.0 after the 48 hour baseline > testing and aerating the water. > > Shouldn't he at least dose with Baking Soda to bring up the KH? > > Bill, > > If you want to do a little experimenting with this neat site that I found > recently... I haven't had a chance to vet it much yet so I haven't talked > about it much... but this database gives you the ability to search for fish > based on a large variety of parameters such as: > > Max Size, pH, Temperature, Hardness, Family, Temperament, Reproductive Type, > Swimming Area, Food Type and Biotope.... but they didn't have the KH > parameter in the database fields. > > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php? op=modload&name=database&file=index_spe > cies> &name=database&file=index_species > > On a sample search for what I know about your water, I used fish with a > maximum size of 3", pH of 6.0, Temperature of 78F, Hardness of 10 dH (I > think yours was around this level), Family of All, Temperament of Peaceful, > Reproductive Type of Egg Scatterer (I wish I could have just excluded > livebearers), Swimming area of All, Food Type of All and Biotope of All. > > Of course, you could have changed the swimming areas to look for fish that > preferred an area that you currently do not have filled up. > > Unfortunately.. or fortunately.. it came up with 19 pages of fish.... but I > happened to notice a picture of your Red-Eyed Tetras on the first page since > they were listed by Latin name - Arnoldichthys spilopterus - so they were on > the first page. > > If anyone else plays around with the Database, let me know how it works out > for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine > what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, > whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check > things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I > didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki > like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual > chemical formula. > > I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula > for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt > molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium > Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) > so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming > pools but not in aquariums. > > Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain > this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > > > I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it was > quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. My concern > of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back > on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. > > I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As > far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I > can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying > to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties should not > change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, > testing is the only way to fly. > > Bill > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM > > Don't know much about it. > > Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good > for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than > what you gave also. > > Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium > Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it > has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium > Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. > > I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would > last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and > get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium > Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... > especially since you have that free limestone available. > > http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium > carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. > > It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. > > Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is > not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too > quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed > or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. > > Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. > (END SNIP) > > http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness > Want to increase your hardness? > One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. > Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of > water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of > each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and > plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small > quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the > actual KH and GH that is achieved. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also > known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic > acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily > effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling > alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a > common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of > chlorine and raise pH. > > Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson > with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. > It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the > results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend > that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff > cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated > on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But > it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. > > Your thoughts sir? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM > > > > > > > Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: > > Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies > heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and > electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or > changing water. > > Here's the info from the MSDS: > > Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non > hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA > tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) > > Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic > dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for > treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much > lower cost. > > The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 > > Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na > > White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, > metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and > other chemical procedures. Purity: â?¥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy > metals: â?¤0.001%; iron: â?¤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. > > Merck Index: 14 3517 > > R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 > (END SNIP) > > From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it > wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it > didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water > issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc > > Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it > to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is > none. > > Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of > water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more > than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. > > Bill > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 10:40:29 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32977	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc

Some of the tetras. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Steve, Your point is well taken BUT consider this, "How many different types of fish will live in 5.5 Ph. I was just thinking that is what the test kit strip shows but could it even be lower? We have quite a bit of Acid Rain here and although the ground water is perked or filtered through some lime-stone its still quite low. Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 11:08 PM It is really quite simple. Don't mess with your water chemistry. Determine what it is and keep the fish that like those parameters. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I should have checked the info from the AquariumWiki site.. in fact, whenever looking at any of the Wiki sites, always double and triple check things in them since they are well known to have many mistakes... and I didn't follow my own rules this time. I just figured that a simple Wiki like the one on Sodium Carbonate wouldn't have a mistake in the actual chemical formula. I've checked several other resources now and Na2CO3 is the correct formula for Sodium Carbonate but there's still the issue with the extra Salt molecule (Na2) and with that missing Hydrogen atom that Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate - NaHCO3) has and how it affects the pH (pH = power of Hydrogen) so that is likely why it's OK to use Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) in swimming pools but not in aquariums. Maybe Ray or \\Steve// or Harry or one of the others out here will explain this further cuz it's getting too deep for me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc I wouldn't argue one way or another. In the message below this it was quoted right from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate. My concern of course, is the fish and how they would re-act. Since no one quoted back on the soda ash, it shall remain in the garage, safe and sound. I'll just continue on with the baking soda and then the limestone later. As far as testing goes, I'm afraid it will be a very long time, if ever, that I can relax my vigilance with regard to a tank. Such is the mania of trying to keep Tropical Fish alive with well water. It's properties should not change over time but who knows, if you want to keep fish alive and healthy, testing is the only way to fly. Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 8:51 PM Don't know much about it. Here's a few things I found with Google and the first link doesn't look good for your situation. The first link gives a different chemical formula than what you gave also. Your formula looks like it could be Bi-sodium Carbonate?? instead of Sodium Carbonate. Baking Soda, or Sodium Bicarbonate has the formula NaHCO3 so it has a Hydrogen atom which is what helps with the pH issues where the Sodium Carbonate does not have this Hydrogen atom. I'd try to sell the 50 lbs of Soda Ash (eBay or Craigslist).. which would last you more than the rest of your life with aquariums anyhow.. lol.. and get you some Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (Calcium Carbonate) and 5 lb. bags of each will last you the rest of your life... especially since you have that free limestone available. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Sodium_carbonate - (START SNIP) Sodium carbonate (NaCO3) or Soda Crystals is a sodium salt of carbonic acid.. It is used as a water softener, that is it reduces the GH of water. Care should be taken as the pH of the water will rise sharply if there is not sufficient buffering (KH) in the water to slow it and if it rises too quickly then species which are pH change intolerant may be greatly stressed or even die. A pH change of no more than 0.5 in 24 hours is recommended. Salt intolerant fish may not like the high levels of Sodium in the water. (END SNIP) http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/index.htm#hardness Want to increase your hardness? One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the actual KH and GH that is achieved. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc More about Soda types? Did you ever hear the term "Sodium carbonate" (also known as washing soda or soda ash), Na2CO3, is a sodium salt of carbonic acid. It most commonly occurs as a crystalline heptahydrate, which readily effloresces to form a white powder, the monohydrate. It has a cooling alkaline taste, and can be extracted from the ashes of many plants. It is a common additive in municipal pools used to neutralize the acidic effects of chlorine and raise pH. Now why am I telling you all of this and going through a chemistry lesson with you? Years ago I would use common baking soda in our swimming pool. It's only fault was its application to volume mixture or ratio+. To get the results I wanted and rise and maintain the Ph, I needed a lot. A friend that works at a local chemical house recommended the soda ash, great stuff cheap, and very effective to hold Ph balance. Of course this was predicated on 15,000 gallons of water that people were swimming in and NOT Fish. But it just happens that I have about 50 lbs of it left over. Your thoughts sir? Bill --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:58 PM Oops.. hit reply too soon. Here's the product description from API: Automatically sets & stabilizes pH at 6.5. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. Great for Tetras, Discus, and Angels. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes to reduce fish stress. Use when setting up an aquarium or changing water. Here's the info from the MSDS: Section 2 - COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS NAME CAS RN % non hazardous ingredients, proprietary >60 sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 1-5 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 1-5 Aloes, extract 85507-69-3 <0.5 (END SNIP) Your fish DO NOT need to be breathing Aloe. The Sodium Thiosulfate is basic dechlor which you probably do not need either although you might need it for treating heavy metals. The API Tap Water Conditioner would do fine at a much lower cost. The EDTA tetrasodium salt is http://www.emdbiosc iences.com/ product/34103 Ethylenediaminetetr aacetic Acid, 4Na White solid. HYGROSCOPIC. Organic chelating agent used in ion exchange, metal chelation, antioxidation procedures, spectrophotometric titration, and other chemical procedures. Purity: â?¥99% by titration. Contaminants: Heavy metals: â?¤0.001%; iron: â?¤0.005%. RTECS AH5075000, CAS 64-02-8. Merck Index: 14 3517 R: 36/37/38; S: 26-36 (END SNIP) From what I can see, it is mostly acidic and does not have any buffers so it wouldn't help you anyhow. It might, and I use the term loosely.. if it didn't have Aloe.. work on a hard water issue but not on your soft water issue. Calcium Carbonate would be best. Baking Soda, second best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Ph 6.5 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc Somebody just gave me this stuff to try. Unfortunately for me they gave it to me because i think they lost the measuring scoop for it! Anyway there is none. Does anyone know the proper dosage or mixture of this stuff to a gallon of water? The bottle contains 8.5 oz. or 240 grams and it claims to treat more than 200 gallons. That¢s a lot of PWC¢s. Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32978	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: What's wrong with this fish?

One of my flame tetras has dark spots behind its gills that have never been there before and aren't on any of the other fish. They are in the same location on each side, and they look rather like ulcers. One is more pink than the others which are very dark. http://community.webshots.com/album/568662392CwMcMP# Fish had a serious issue with letting me photograph both sides. I put two slightly impure gneiss rocks from the family house in the Southern Adirondacks in the tank two days ago in place of the two sick looking rusty white quartz, so I checked all the water parameters carefully. They all appear to be fine. Ammonia - as close to 0 as I've ever seen it. The color was actually yellow. Nitrites - 0. As usual. It has always taken an Act of God for the nitrites to rise in my tank, and a new bottle of test solution made no difference. Nitrates between 5 and 10. GH between 8 and 9, as usual - compared to between 7 and 8 for the tap water. (They seriously soften the tap water here.) KH 3, as usual, compared to 4 for the tap water. pH pretty much normal, but I was getting consistently inconsistent results with my high range, normal range and wide range test solutions, and, strangely, the newly prepared water in the bucket that's had air bubbled through it was much lower ph than usual. I dumped it out on the lawn; Lord knows what's up with that. pH of teh water out of the tap actually varies between 9.0 and 8.4. When I tested it, the high range showed between 8,4 and 9.0 and definitely under 9.0, and the wide range showed atleast 9.0. I scrubbed the rocks with dish washer detergent, soaked them in chlorox, scrubbed them with bleach scouring powder, and then boiled them, before putting them in the tank. My sister picked them up outside the house, and not from a body of water. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32979	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: sometimes I hate ordering stuff off the internet

I ordered a light last week and it just arrived today.... broken *sigh*. One of the bulbs broke during shipping, the idiots (drsfostersmith.com) apparently thought the light bulbs did not need any extra padding. The bulbs were shipping inside the light fixture, already set up. Just my luck, now I have a useless light fixture and I have to figure out how to get drsfostersmith.com to fix the problem. I am now "chatting" with live help to see what they can do. Sometimes I should just remind myself that certain items should not be shipped to Alaska, because they end up broken :( Alaskan's can't seem to read the word "fragile" on a bright red and white sticker. Amber (frustrated and tired)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32980	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

Bill, The _Pelvicachromis pulcher_, or kribensis, I mentioned earlier is and African cichlid, relatively common, and should do well in your water. The African cichlids you are talking about here are more accurately called Rift Lake cichlids, and will do much better in water hard as a rock, and on the base side of the pH scale. The red wag platys you are talking about also prefer a harder more base water than you have and can provide. This may be one reason why they look washed out. However, if you are interested in the livebearer aspect more than the color aspect, there are livebearers that come from softer more acid waters that may be of interest to you. I'd need to research these for you, and then take a guess at availability, but they are out there. I forget which end of PA you are on. How far are you from Lancaster? If not too far, you could take the missus on a road trip to Lancaster to visit That Fish Place to look at the fish they have there. Last time I was there, they had a ton of different rams. You might want to hand over your wallet to the missus before entering, then you can blame her for any overspending there <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:52 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help.   Maybe I am handling this wrong.  Steve's point is very well taken and of course, does make perfect sense.  Since you folks have about a ton and a half more "hands-on" experience than I do, how about this?  Lets jump ahead a little bit and let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don't have yet?  Neon Tetra's, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra's.  That's the fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger tank, they are fine.    The ones I don't have and worrying about getting are the Rams and Red-Wag Platy's.  The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but the Red-Wag Platy's are a complete no show at least around here.  The ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in the body, they almost seem to be some type of variant.  I'm almost positive that someone in the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures of them on Group but I could be wrong.  I have been there so much I could be mistaken.   As you can see, it isn't so much variety, its almost just more of what I have.  An example of others?  Quite a while back I mentioned Black Tetra's, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied the other two, they just stopped eating.  Why he leaves the little tetra's I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good.  As far as Africans Cichlids go, we let them.  I don't think my water conditions could support anything in that line comfortably.  So that's it.  Suggestions?  Letm' ripe!   Thanks to all trying to help,   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: sometimes I hate ordering stuff off the internet

DFS is a good company so I'm sure they'll make things right. And I think I saw your package on the loading belt with those baggage handlers in one of the Old Mutual commercials... they were loading your light fixture with "Fragile" on the box and the big guy threw a big suitcase on top of it when the other guy said... "You gotta be Old Mutual", or something to that effect. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sometimes I hate ordering stuff off the internet I ordered a light last week and it just arrived today.... broken *sigh*. One of the bulbs broke during shipping, the idiots (drsfostersmith.com) apparently thought the light bulbs did not need any extra padding. The bulbs were shipping inside the light fixture, already set up. Just my luck, now I have a useless light fixture and I have to figure out how to get drsfostersmith.com to fix the problem. I am now "chatting" with live help to see what they can do. Sometimes I should just remind myself that certain items should not be shipped to Alaska, because they end up broken :( Alaskan's can't seem to read the word "fragile" on a bright red and white sticker. Amber (frustrated and tired) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 7:54:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32982	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: sometimes I hate ordering stuff off the internet

Isn't "Fragile" french for "drop and kick"? LOL And yes, DFS is sending me a new fixture and this time they are going to put padding in around the bulbs so they don't shift and break in transit again. I figure the fixture is okay, but the good bulb doesn't light up, it only flashes once and turns off again. I decided to just have them send a new fixture though in case this one somehow broke. Some fixtures will only work if there are 2 good bulbs in them and this may be one of them. Other fixtures will work with one bulb in and the other not, so who knows? LOL. I still think it's funny that they didn't think to open the box and see if it had enough protection during shipping ;) I wonder how many they reship to people with broken items on a daily basis. And that was a good joke Lenny, I got a good giggle out of it ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > DFS is a good company so I'm sure they'll make things right. > > And I think I saw your package

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32983	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: sometimes I hate ordering stuff off the internet

I'll 2nd DFS excellant custermer service. They will make it right with just one Phone call. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Nov 13, 2008, at 7:54 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: DFS is a good company so I'm sure they'll make things right. And I think I saw your package on the loading belt with those baggage handlers in one of the Old Mutual commercials... they were loading your light fixture with "Fragile" on the box and the big guy threw a big suitcase on top of it when the other guy said... "You gotta be Old Mutual", or something to that effect. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sometimes I hate ordering stuff off the internet I ordered a light last week and it just arrived today.... broken *sigh*. One of the bulbs broke during shipping, the idiots (drsfostersmith.com) apparently thought the light bulbs did not need any extra padding. The bulbs were shipping inside the light fixture, already set up. Just my luck, now I have a useless light fixture and I have to figure out how to get drsfostersmith.com to fix the problem. I am now "chatting" with live help to see what they can do. Sometimes I should just remind myself that certain items should not be shipped to Alaska, because they end up broken :( Alaskan's can't seem to read the word "fragile" on a bright red and white sticker. Amber (frustrated and tired) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 7:54:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32984	From: Lisa	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: 22gal update

Just got home again. And came back with the start of my tanks decorations. I have this sweet gargoyle holding an urn (Check my photo album) and white `Marina' aquarium gravel. I also now have a silk Chinese ivy plant. I want to get some Amazon sword, maybe some wysteria too Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32985	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

Nowhere in the OP do I see any mention of financial issues, but the replies seem to be focusing on costs (unless I've missed something). And it isn't clear to me just what the OP wants, needs, or has in mind for resolving the situation. Obviously, five in an eight-gallon is way too many. An eight-gallon is too small for ONE convict! I think we need more to go on here -- is there a financial issue? Does the OP want to split them up? If a huge tank for five cichlids is not feasible financially, then what are the options? At their current size, smaller tanks may suffice, but eventually one or more larger tanks will be needed. There are the territorial issues -- convicts can get very aggressive and fight over territory. Also, do we know the gender and if the OP has considered the possibility of offspring? Shirley --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William J. Scott" <w.j.scott@...> wrote: > > Petco Has a 10 gal starter kit (incandescent light, no heater) for $29.95 > until 11/22/08. > > Bill in CA. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 11/12/2008 12:13:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > Yep. Wal-Mart's have them for $10.47 for a 10G tank or a 10G starter kit > with hood, filter, etc. for under $40.00. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > I guess it depends on where you live and your local resources. > > Most chain stores have 10 gallon tanks from $9.00 to $13.00. > > -Mike > > maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone > > -----Original Message----- > From: angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28 am > Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brad Belikove <bbelikove@... <mailto:bbelikove%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 1:08 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained > > for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks > > easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you could > > maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. > > Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and > > a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy > > emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a > > situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the > > mother of all invention. good luck > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@wit > chnet.org>wrote: > > > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great > > holes > > > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my 55 > > > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the cichlids > > I > > > used to have. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try giving > > > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 > > > fish, > > > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a > > > bioload > > > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will > > > grow > > > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > > > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, > > > > with > > > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 > > > > gallon > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict > > > > Cichlid > > > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > > > > > What do I do? > > > > > I can't put > them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081112-0, 11/12/2008 > Tested on: 11/12/2008 2:12:38 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32986	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: 22gal update

I see your album at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/539675101/pic/list but it's empty. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 8:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 22gal update Just got home again. And came back with the start of my tanks decorations. I have this sweet gargoyle holding an urn (Check my photo album) and white `Marina' aquarium gravel. I also now have a silk Chinese ivy plant. I want to get some Amazon sword, maybe some wysteria too Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 9:20:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32987	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: Evil Cichlids

In one of the follow-up messages, the OP mentioned their budget so we were going over options and I suggested a large clear plastic Sterilite storage box in the 30-40G range which would be around the same price as a 10G tank. I don't see that message in this thread but I know I posted that and someone even replied to it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids Nowhere in the OP do I see any mention of financial issues, but the replies seem to be focusing on costs (unless I've missed something). And it isn't clear to me just what the OP wants, needs, or has in mind for resolving the situation. Obviously, five in an eight-gallon is way too many. An eight-gallon is too small for ONE convict! I think we need more to go on here -- is there a financial issue? Does the OP want to split them up? If a huge tank for five cichlids is not feasible financially, then what are the options? At their current size, smaller tanks may suffice, but eventually one or more larger tanks will be needed. There are the territorial issues -- convicts can get very aggressive and fight over territory. Also, do we know the gender and if the OP has considered the possibility of offspring? Shirley --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "William J. Scott" <w.j.scott@...> wrote: > > Petco Has a 10 gal starter kit (incandescent light, no heater) for $29.95 > until 11/22/08. > > Bill in CA. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 11/12/2008 12:13:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > Yep. Wal-Mart's have them for $10.47 for a 10G tank or a 10G starter > kit with hood, filter, etc. for under $40.00. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > I guess it depends on where you live and your local resources. > > Most chain stores have 10 gallon tanks from $9.00 to $13.00. > > -Mike > > maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone > > -----Original Message----- > From: angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28 am > Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > maybe a used one cheapest one i have seen is 20 dollars for the tank alone > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brad Belikove <bbelikove@... <mailto:bbelikove%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 1:08 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Evil Cichlids > > I hate to chime in with the obvious..but a 10 gallon tank can be obtained > > for like $10. you could skimp on the lighting and such for a few weeks > > easily. As long as your on top of the water changing and such you > could > > maintain the tank long enough to purchase the necessaries at a slower pace. > > Even consider building your own filter out of a bucket and some sponges and > > a siphon. Try googling things like "diy quick breeder tank" or "diy > > emergency filter" etc. something that will pull up some instructions for a > > situation that obviously wasn't planned on, because well..necessity is the > > mother of all invention. good luck > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@wit > chnet.org>wrote: > > > Petco has some really nice pieces of volcanic rock that had great > > holes > > > in it that cichlids like to hide it. I got a couple of those in my > > 55 > > > gal tank and that made the tank so much more peaceful for the > > cichlids I > > > used to have. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > As you probably don't have a larger tank to put these in, try > > > giving > > > > them some rocks and caves to take refuge in, in at least an equal > > > > number to that of the fish and preferably more. Since you have 5 > > > fish, > > > > give them enough rocks to make six caves -- facing in various > > > > directions, so that the line of sight is broken up between shelters. > > > > You should be aware though, that five 2" fish is too much of a > > > bioload > > > > for an 8 gallon tank, especially when you consider these fish will > > > grow > > > > to at least 4" (females slightly smaller). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > > > "lizkakot" <lizkakot@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have 5 Cichlids that I got as tiny tiny babies from the store, > > > > with > > > > > my plant. I decided to save them and I put them in a little 8 > > > > gallon > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Now, the biggest one is 2 inches long, It looks like a Convict > > > > Cichlid > > > > > and it is attacking it's brothers. > > > > > > > > > > What do I do? > > > > > I can't put > them in my main tank because the brothers attack my > > > > > gourami, and the shark attacks them! :( > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 9:23:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32988	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Question about phosphate levels

The stuff I'm reading about lateral line/ hole in head disease, which is one of my theories of what is wrong with my tetra, suggests among other things taht carbon filtration may release phosphates into the water taht somehow aggravates the condition. I don't know about that, and I'm filtering the same way as I have for a long time; however, when I used my old and new phosphate tests (two different brands, one of tehm API) last weekend, I did notice that the phosphate levels in my tank are about twice that of the already high phosphate levels in my tap water. This puzzled me because the way I understand it, the test kits can only detect inorganic phosphates. As I understand it, the phosphates in fish wastes and decomposed fish food are organic phosphates and cannot be detected by phosphate test kits. Anyone have any other ideas on why my phophate levels are high? Or can fish or fish food waste contribute to the phosphate findings on phosphate tests, in which case I have a water quality issue? I got a silicate test as well - but it is impossible to read. The levels in teh aquarium do not seem appreciably different than in the tap water - but with that test such a miniscule quantity of water is used that it was hard to get consistent results on the same water sample. And that method of dipping a plastic wand in the powderede reagent and picking up an uncontrolled amount of powder is a pure joke. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32989	From: Alina	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank

Lenny, My ammonia in this tank is a little high. About .25; I did a PWC (25%) and then added Pimafix. I removed the carbon (cuz now I'm the queen of surgically altering those filter cartridges, thankyouverymuch). Can I do PWC if I need to moving forward? Don't want to mess up the med sked, but also want to keep my levels right since my other fish look fine in there. This tank is about a month old and just cycled, so it's not "established" in the sense that it's been running awhile. It was cycled, but young. It was meant to be used as my quarantine, so it is doing what it should be. Alina PS Because my time is limited I did go out and pick up a box of myacin and bottle of coppersafe just to keep on hand in case I need to bump up the meds. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would use the Pimafix first while further diagnosing things. Once you are > certain of the diagnosis, you could bump up the meds.. if the Pimafix isn't > working but it should do the job. > > You do not need to remove the filters.. only the carbon out of the cartridge > if that is what you have. You should still have the majority of the good > nitrifying bacteria living on the sponges/floss pads/etc. Some will live on > the carbon but the majority will be on the other filter media so you > shouldn't have a problem.. but test the ammonia for a couple of days to make > sure. This is another reason I keep extra filter media in the reservoirs of > my filter systems. > > DO NOT move that filter media to any other tank as you could transfer the > pathogen (fungus?) to the otherwise healthy tank. In fact, you should trash > the carbon since you don't want to transfer the pathogen back into your sick > tank once you get it well. > > Follow the instructions on the bottle. The standard treatment (according to > my bottle) is 5ml per 10G with additional 5ml per 10G per day for 7 days. > Then do a 25% PWC. Repeat treatment if necessary for up to another 7 days. > > If you don't see marked improvement after 7 days, you might want to consider > something stronger but hopefully you're catching this early enough so the > Pimafix will do the job. > > What kind of filter system (make/model) do you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] How to treat a tank > > > Hi, > > I recently set up a 10-gal tank as a quarantine/hospital tank. Well, I have > four fish in it in quarantine. My funny jumping swordtails (2) and two > platys. There is one platy whose tail has a feathery growth on it. It's very > airy, a little bit longish, not quite like a cottonball, more like a fuzzy > thread. > > I've been searching online and it is probably a fungus of some sort. > > So I'm thinking I want to treat it with Pimafix first, and see how it goes. > Or should I just go for the gusto and use something stronger? > > I have never treated a tank before as I am still pretty new in this hobby. > So I ask you guys: > > * Do I remove my carbon filter for this and if so, where can I put it so as > not to lose my good bacteria? I have another tank...can I float it in there? > Just trying to figure out how you guys treat your tanks and what you do with > the filters when they need to be removed. > > *Finally, how long would you normally treat for this, and do I do daily PWC > for awhile, as I treat? > > Thanks > > Alina > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-0, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:38:12 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32990	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank

As far as doing PWC's once you start the meds, yes it's OK as long as you replace the removed meds. For example, if you only treated the tank with the first dose of Pimafix and you remove 25% of the water (meaning 25% of that first dose), you would re-dose with only 1/4th of regular dose of Pimafix. If you are doing the PWC after three days, so you've dosed the tank three times, then you would be removing 25% of the water with a triple dose of Pimafix so you would add 3/4's of the regular dose of Pimafix. Let me know that you understand the above. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How to treat a tank Lenny, My ammonia in this tank is a little high. About .25; I did a PWC (25%) and then added Pimafix. I removed the carbon (cuz now I'm the queen of surgically altering those filter cartridges, thankyouverymuch). Can I do PWC if I need to moving forward? Don't want to mess up the med sked, but also want to keep my levels right since my other fish look fine in there. This tank is about a month old and just cycled, so it's not "established" in the sense that it's been running awhile. It was cycled, but young. It was meant to be used as my quarantine, so it is doing what it should be. Alina PS Because my time is limited I did go out and pick up a box of myacin and bottle of coppersafe just to keep on hand in case I need to bump up the meds. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would use the Pimafix first while further diagnosing things. Once you are > certain of the diagnosis, you could bump up the meds.. if the Pimafix isn't > working but it should do the job. > > You do not need to remove the filters.. only the carbon out of the cartridge > if that is what you have. You should still have the majority of the good > nitrifying bacteria living on the sponges/floss pads/etc. Some will live on > the carbon but the majority will be on the other filter media so you > shouldn't have a problem.. but test the ammonia for a couple of days to make > sure. This is another reason I keep extra filter media in the reservoirs of > my filter systems. > > DO NOT move that filter media to any other tank as you could transfer the > pathogen (fungus?) to the otherwise healthy tank. In fact, you should trash > the carbon since you don't want to transfer the pathogen back into your sick > tank once you get it well. > > Follow the instructions on the bottle. The standard treatment (according to > my bottle) is 5ml per 10G with additional 5ml per 10G per day for 7 days. > Then do a 25% PWC. Repeat treatment if necessary for up to another 7 days. > > If you don't see marked improvement after 7 days, you might want to consider > something stronger but hopefully you're catching this early enough so the > Pimafix will do the job. > > What kind of filter system (make/model) do you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] How to treat a tank > > > Hi, > > I recently set up a 10-gal tank as a quarantine/hospital tank. Well, I have > four fish in it in quarantine. My funny jumping swordtails (2) and two > platys. There is one platy whose tail has a feathery growth on it. It's very > airy, a little bit longish, not quite like a cottonball, more like a fuzzy > thread. > > I've been searching online and it is probably a fungus of some sort. > > So I'm thinking I want to treat it with Pimafix first, and see how it goes. > Or should I just go for the gusto and use something stronger? > > I have never treated a tank before as I am still pretty new in this hobby. > So I ask you guys: > > * Do I remove my carbon filter for this and if so, where can I put it so as > not to lose my good bacteria? I have another tank...can I float it in there? > Just trying to figure out how you guys treat your tanks and what you do with > the filters when they need to be removed. > > *Finally, how long would you normally treat for this, and do I do daily PWC > for awhile, as I treat? > > Thanks > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 10:23:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32991	From: Chris	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: forget bio-spira

Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32992	From: Andreas	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

how would you ship them without the bacteria dying A On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32993	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

refrigeration ________________________________ From: Andreas <andreas1120@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:41:24 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira how would you ship them without the bacteria dying A On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32994	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

pack with a cold pack ________________________________ From: Andreas <andreas1120@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:41:24 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira how would you ship them without the bacteria dying A On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32995	From: Chris	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm

The most common approach to cycling is 5ppm. Why stop at 5? My test goes from 4ppm to 8ppm so I don't know where 5 is. Will more than 5ppm harm the bacteria? What is the point of reducing ammonia by half once the first set of bacteria is established? Also, does that mean I'm maintaining ppm of 2 for ammonia?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

Dr. Tim's One And Only costs under $10.00 (2 oz. for 30G tank). How would you make enough cycled filters to make enough money? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira pack with a cold pack ________________________________ From: Andreas <andreas1120@... <mailto:andreas1120%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:41:24 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira how would you ship them without the bacteria dying A On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:30:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:36:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm

Over 5ppm when fishless cycling will cause the cycle to stall. Now, once you have the cycle going at 5ppm, where the bacteria is cycling the ammonia in 24 hours, then you could start adding 5ppm at the beginning of the next day and then 12 hours later, test the ammonia level and top it off back up to 5ppm and then at the 12 hour mark, top it off again. Keep track of the total ppm of ammonia that you add in a 24 hour period. This will keep building the N-bacteria colonies until you have a larger colony capable of handling more than 5ppm per day but if you added over 5ppm at one time, that would start killing off some bacteria. What do you mean by your second paragraph? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm The most common approach to cycling is 5ppm. Why stop at 5? My test goes from 4ppm to 8ppm so I don't know where 5 is. Will more than 5ppm harm the bacteria? What is the point of reducing ammonia by half once the first set of bacteria is established? Also, does that mean I'm maintaining ppm of 2 for ammonia? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:42:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32998	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: 22gal update

The moderators havn't approved the photos yet?   Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 32999	From: Alina	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank

Understood. So if after two days I were to do a PWC and I've dosed twice, I would redose at .50 (or half) dosage. Let's assume I do that. I do the PWC before that day's dosage. So would one add the half-dose plus the 5 ml daily dose? Or maybe I should not complicate my life and just dose in the a.m.'s, and if I need to, do PWC in the evening, so I am not putting too much of the med in at the same time. Will my water tests be accurate during this period, or actually, whenever I add meds to the water? Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > As far as doing PWC's once you start the meds, yes it's OK as long as you > replace the removed meds. For example, if you only treated the tank with > the first dose of Pimafix and you remove 25% of the water (meaning 25% of > that first dose), you would re-dose with only 1/4th of regular dose of > Pimafix. If you are doing the PWC after three days, so you've dosed the > tank three times, then you would be removing 25% of the water with a triple > dose of Pimafix so you would add 3/4's of the regular dose of Pimafix. > > Let me know that you understand the above. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How to treat a tank > > > Lenny, > > My ammonia in this tank is a little high. About .25; I did a PWC > (25%) and then added Pimafix. I removed the carbon (cuz now I'm the queen of > surgically altering those filter cartridges, thankyouverymuch). > > Can I do PWC if I need to moving forward? Don't want to mess up the med > sked, but also want to keep my levels right since my other fish look fine in > there. This tank is about a month old and just cycled, so it's not > "established" in the sense that it's been running awhile. > It was cycled, but young. > > It was meant to be used as my quarantine, so it is doing what it should be. > > Alina > > PS Because my time is limited I did go out and pick up a box of myacin and > bottle of coppersafe just to keep on hand in case I need to bump up the > meds. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I would use the Pimafix first while further diagnosing things. > Once you are > > certain of the diagnosis, you could bump up the meds.. if the > Pimafix isn't > > working but it should do the job. > > > > You do not need to remove the filters.. only the carbon out of the > cartridge > > if that is what you have. You should still have the majority of > the good > > nitrifying bacteria living on the sponges/floss pads/etc. Some > will live on > > the carbon but the majority will be on the other filter media so you > > shouldn't have a problem.. but test the ammonia for a couple of > days to make > > sure. This is another reason I keep extra filter media in the > reservoirs of > > my filter systems. > > > > DO NOT move that filter media to any other tank as you could > transfer the > > pathogen (fungus?) to the otherwise healthy tank. In fact, you > should trash > > the carbon since you don't want to transfer the pathogen back into > your sick > > tank once you get it well. > > > > Follow the instructions on the bottle. The standard treatment > (according to > > my bottle) is 5ml per 10G with additional 5ml per 10G per day for 7 > days. > > Then do a 25% PWC. Repeat treatment if necessary for up to another > 7 days. > > > > If you don't see marked improvement after 7 days, you might want to > consider > > something stronger but hopefully you're catching this early enough > so the > > Pimafix will do the job. > > > > What kind of filter system (make/model) do you have? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:42 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] How to treat a tank > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I recently set up a 10-gal tank as a quarantine/hospital tank. > Well, I have > > four fish in it in quarantine. My funny jumping swordtails (2) and > two > > platys. There is one platy whose tail has a feathery growth on it. > It's very > > airy, a little bit longish, not quite like a cottonball, more like > a fuzzy > > thread. > > > > I've been searching online and it is probably a fungus of some sort. > > > > So I'm thinking I want to treat it with Pimafix first, and see how > it goes. > > Or should I just go for the gusto and use something stronger? > > > > I have never treated a tank before as I am still pretty new in this > hobby. > > So I ask you guys: > > > > * Do I remove my carbon filter for this and if so, where can I put > it so as > > not to lose my good bacteria? I have another tank...can I float it > in there? > > Just trying to figure out how you guys treat your tanks and what > you do with > > the filters when they need to be removed. > > > > *Finally, how long would you normally treat for this, and do I do > daily PWC > > for awhile, as I treat? > > > > Thanks > > > > Alina > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 10:23:00 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33000	From: Alina	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

off topic, but I can't find Dr. Tim's....online purchase? -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Dr. Tim's One And Only costs under $10.00 (2 oz. for 30G tank). > > How would you make enough cycled filters to make enough money? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Chris Johnson > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira > > pack with a cold pack > > ________________________________ > From: Andreas <andreas1120@... <mailto:andreas1120%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:41:24 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira > > how would you ship them without the bacteria dying > > A > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:30:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:36:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: How to treat a tank

Yes, if you did a 25% PWC after two doses, you would have removed 2 x 25% of the Pimafix or a 50% dose. Yes, after replacing the removed meds (from the PWC), I'd wait an hour or so before adding the daily dose. If you have an API test kit, your results should be OK but you might want to go to http://www.aquariumpharm.com (API's website) and use the Contact Us form to ask them.. and check their FAQ's to see if it's already answered but I remember reading a while back that all of their products are tested to be used with each other safely but I do not specifically recall anything about whether test results are affected by meds. In the past, I've tested my water while dosing with meds (probably including Pimafix at some point) and felt I was getting accurate results. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How to treat a tank Understood. So if after two days I were to do a PWC and I've dosed twice, I would redose at .50 (or half) dosage. Let's assume I do that. I do the PWC before that day's dosage. So would one add the half-dose plus the 5 ml daily dose? Or maybe I should not complicate my life and just dose in the a.m.'s, and if I need to, do PWC in the evening, so I am not putting too much of the med in at the same time. Will my water tests be accurate during this period, or actually, whenever I add meds to the water? Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > As far as doing PWC's once you start the meds, yes it's OK as long as you > replace the removed meds. For example, if you only treated the tank with > the first dose of Pimafix and you remove 25% of the water (meaning 25% of > that first dose), you would re-dose with only 1/4th of regular dose of > Pimafix. If you are doing the PWC after three days, so you've dosed > the tank three times, then you would be removing 25% of the water with > a triple > dose of Pimafix so you would add 3/4's of the regular dose of Pimafix. > > Let me know that you understand the above. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How to treat a tank > > > Lenny, > > My ammonia in this tank is a little high. About .25; I did a PWC > (25%) and then added Pimafix. I removed the carbon (cuz now I'm the queen of > surgically altering those filter cartridges, thankyouverymuch). > > Can I do PWC if I need to moving forward? Don't want to mess up the > med sked, but also want to keep my levels right since my other fish > look fine in > there. This tank is about a month old and just cycled, so it's not > "established" in the sense that it's been running awhile. > It was cycled, but young. > > It was meant to be used as my quarantine, so it is doing what it should be. > > Alina > > PS Because my time is limited I did go out and pick up a box of myacin and > bottle of coppersafe just to keep on hand in case I need to bump up > the meds. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I would use the Pimafix first while further diagnosing things. > Once you are > > certain of the diagnosis, you could bump up the meds.. if the > Pimafix isn't > > working but it should do the job. > > > > You do not need to remove the filters.. only the carbon out of the > cartridge > > if that is what you have. You should still have the majority of > the good > > nitrifying bacteria living on the sponges/floss pads/etc. Some > will live on > > the carbon but the majority will be on the other filter media so you > > shouldn't have a problem.. but test the ammonia for a couple of > days to make > > sure. This is another reason I keep extra filter media in the > reservoirs of > > my filter systems. > > > > DO NOT move that filter media to any other tank as you could > transfer the > > pathogen (fungus?) to the otherwise healthy tank. In fact, you > should trash > > the carbon since you don't want to transfer the pathogen back into > your sick > > tank once you get it well. > > > > Follow the instructions on the bottle. The standard treatment > (according to > > my bottle) is 5ml per 10G with additional 5ml per 10G per day for 7 > days. > > Then do a 25% PWC. Repeat treatment if necessary for up to another > 7 days. > > > > If you don't see marked improvement after 7 days, you might want to > consider > > something stronger but hopefully you're catching this early enough > so the > > Pimafix will do the job. > > > > What kind of filter system (make/model) do you have? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Alina > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:42 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] How to treat a tank > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I recently set up a 10-gal tank as a quarantine/hospital tank. > Well, I have > > four fish in it in quarantine. My funny jumping swordtails (2) and > two > > platys. There is one platy whose tail has a feathery growth on it. > It's very > > airy, a little bit longish, not quite like a cottonball, more like > a fuzzy > > thread. > > > > I've been searching online and it is probably a fungus of some sort. > > > > So I'm thinking I want to treat it with Pimafix first, and see how > it goes. > > Or should I just go for the gusto and use something stronger? > > > > I have never treated a tank before as I am still pretty new in this > hobby. > > So I ask you guys: > > > > * Do I remove my carbon filter for this and if so, where can I put > it so as > > not to lose my good bacteria? I have another tank...can I float it > in there? > > Just trying to figure out how you guys treat your tanks and what > you do with > > the filters when they need to be removed. > > > > *Finally, how long would you normally treat for this, and do I do > daily PWC > > for awhile, as I treat? > > > > Thanks > > > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 7:20:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33002	From: bill1433	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

You�re a mind reader!� I would have to hand over the complete wallet including all CC�s prior to entering any store where tanks are displayed! She has learned a thing or two since my last days in the hobby! � Lancaster is a possible trip \\Steve// but for fish?� Its about 75 miles away at a heading of S, S. West.� Problem is the mileage with the cold weather soon to be upon us here in PA, that�s about 140 miles round trip.� These things you folks use to ship called Hot Packs and a crash course in how to be them would be most welcome, I�ve never seen them also a few coolers would be in order.� On the tank itself?� Still waiting to hear something, anything from the seller since Tuesday of this week.� Another important consideration is its setup. � We are still working with that calculator link from Len on the use of the baking soda but having trouble coming up to match a smaller quantity of water (PWC for a 4-gallon hex I have), we only do about a gallon or so at a time.� It is going to be buffered with Lime Stone for long-term stability if I can get it into the small filter.� Also it�s more than possible that I will use One and Only for the new tanks setup or run in cycle.� I would not make a trip like this for just 3 fish I can assure you.� On the fish themselves here are some of my choices from this link: http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/characin.htm � I think either you or Ray suggested Characins and when I did a Goggle Search this link came up.� It�s very useful for all types of fish even though it�s from UK. Here my fish choice�s:� Cardinal Tetra, Neon Tetra, Glo-Light, Zebra Danio, Ramirezi, and also Agazzizi�s Dwarf Cichlid and of course the Bronze Cory/Albino Cory cats.� Some of these I have already.� Finding the Rams and Agazzizi�s Dwarf Cichlid may not be so easy and I may have to recruit help here from the Group. � Bill --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 8:44 PM Bill, The _Pelvicachromis pulcher_, or kribensis, I mentioned earlier is and African cichlid, relatively common, and should do well in your water. The African cichlids you are talking about here are more accurately called Rift Lake cichlids, and will do much better in water hard as a rock, and on the base side of the pH scale. The red wag platys you are talking about also prefer a harder more base water than you have and can provide. This may be one reason why they look washed out. However, if you are interested in the livebearer aspect more than the color aspect, there are livebearers that come from softer more acid waters that may be of interest to you. I'd need to research these for you, and then take a guess at availability, but they are out there. I forget which end of PA you are on. How far are you from Lancaster? If not too far, you could take the missus on a road trip to Lancaster to visit That Fish Place to look at the fish they have there. Last time I was there, they had a ton of different rams. You might want to hand over your wallet to the missus before entering, then you can blame her for any overspending there <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:52 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help. � Maybe I am handling this wrong.� Steve's point is very well taken and of course, does make perfect sense.� Since you folks have about a ton and a half more "hands-on" experience than I do, how about this?� Lets jump ahead a little bit and let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don't have yet?� Neon Tetra's, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra's.� That's the fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger tank, they are fine.� � The ones I don't have and worrying about getting are the Rams and Red-Wag Platy's.� The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but the Red-Wag Platy's are a complete no show at least around here.� The ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in the body, they almost seem to be some type of variant.� I'm almost positive that someone in the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures of them on Group but I could be wrong.� I have been there so much I could be mistaken. � As you can see, it isn't so much variety, its almost just more of what I have.� An example of others?� Quite a while back I mentioned Black Tetra's, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied the other two, they just stopped eating.� Why he leaves the little tetra's I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good.� As far as Africans Cichlids go, we let them.� I don't think my water conditions could support anything in that line comfortably.� So that's it.� Suggestions?� Letm' ripe! � Thanks to all trying to help, � Bill � � � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33003	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

I would suspect you would not sell the filter cartridge, but something you can get much cheaper maybe a standard sponge type material that is non toxic to fish and doesn't come with soap in it. I am no scientist, but i am not sure refrigeration would work either, we have discussed here how temp changes can affect the bacteria. You might in fact need a warm pack depending on where its going and the time of year it is. if i were to try and ship something like that, i would use a ziplock bag and a box. --Dave On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 12:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Dr. Tim's One And Only costs under $10.00 (2 oz. for 30G tank). > > How would you make enough cycled filters to make enough money? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Chris Johnson > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira > > pack with a cold pack > > ________________________________ > From: Andreas <andreas1120@... <andreas1120%40gmail.com> <mailto: > andreas1120%40gmail.com <andreas1120%2540gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:41:24 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira > > how would you ship them without the bacteria dying > > A > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:30:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:36:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33004	From: bill1433	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

If you go here Alina, http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18986   Bill --- On Fri, 11/14/08, Alina <alambiet@...> wrote: From: Alina <alambiet@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: forget bio-spira To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 7:46 AM off topic, but I can't find Dr. Tim's....online purchase? -- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Dr. Tim's One And Only costs under $10.00 (2 oz. for 30G tank). > > How would you make enough cycled filters to make enough money? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Chris Johnson > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira > > pack with a cold pack > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Andreas <andreas1120@ ... <mailto:andreas1120 %40gmail. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:41:24 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira > > how would you ship them without the bacteria dying > > A > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:30:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:36:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

You're in the Miami area, right? Here's the Store Locator page on http://DrTimsAquatics.com http://drtimsaquatics.com/WhereToBuy/Stores/Stores.html Click on the Florida link... I see at least one store in Miami. I saw where Bill already mentioned one online source, http://DrsFosterSmith.com I checked the PetsMart.com site but didn't see it or the Tetra SafeStart which is supposed to be Bio-Spira repackaged by Tetra since they bought out Marineland. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: forget bio-spira off topic, but I can't find Dr. Tim's....online purchase? -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Dr. Tim's One And Only costs under $10.00 (2 oz. for 30G tank). > > How would you make enough cycled filters to make enough money? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Chris Johnson > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira > > pack with a cold pack > > ________________________________ > From: Andreas <andreas1120@... <mailto:andreas1120%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:41:24 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira > > how would you ship them without the bacteria dying > > A > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 7:37:59 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33006	From: Wendie	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

DrsFosterSmith will ship the Dr Tim's version of Bio Spira packed with dry ice only. There's an extra shipping charge as if you were buying food. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: David Keymel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:13 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira I would suspect you would not sell the filter cartridge, but something you can get much cheaper maybe a standard sponge type material that is non toxic to fish and doesn't come with soap in it. I am no scientist, but i am not sure refrigeration would work either, we have discussed here how temp changes can affect the bacteria. You might in fact need a warm pack depending on where its going and the time of year it is. if i were to try and ship something like that, i would use a ziplock bag and a box. --Dave On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 12:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Dr. Tim's One And Only costs under $10.00 (2 oz. for 30G tank). > > How would you make enough cycled filters to make enough money? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Chris Johnson > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira > > pack with a cold pack > > ________________________________ > From: Andreas <andreas1120@... <andreas1120%40gmail.com> <mailto: > andreas1120%40gmail.com <andreas1120%2540gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:41:24 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira > > how would you ship them without the bacteria dying > > A > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:30:53 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 > Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:36:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33007	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm

So higher than 5ppm doesn't kill all the bacteria. I accidentally overdosed to around 9ppm. I read that once you get a nitrite peak (not sure when that is), you r supposed to reduce the amount of ammonia by half. Atleast that is what I think I remember. Half of 5 is 2.5ppm (or just 2). Is that what I want the ammonia test to show? Why reduce by half? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33008	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

Why warm when products like bio-spira are sold refrigerated? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33009	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

Where there is a will there is a way. ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 12:36:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira Dr. Tim's One And Only costs under $10.00 (2 oz. for 30G tank). How would you make enough cycled filters to make enough money? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira pack with a cold pack ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Andreas <andreas1120@ gmail.com <mailto:andreas1120 %40gmail. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:41:24 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira how would you ship them without the bacteria dying A On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:30:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/13/2008 11:36:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33010	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor

I'm getting 2 different readings from the water in my q tank. The NH3 monitor is reading .05 and API is reading either .25 or .5ppm. I also don't understand why I'm getting an ammonia reading like I am. I fed the fish and then did a siphoning of the bottom of the q tank to get rid of all debris. Ended up doing around 90% water change. I gave the aqua clear filter a good rinsing, and added extra prime to neutralize the ammonia in the remaining water. I added about an inch of fresh zeolite over the sponge in the filter. That should have given me almost nothing in ammonia, but over night the ammonia went from .02 to .05. (and holding) Thats when I did my first api test. Is my monitor faulty, or is there something going on I don't understand As a side note: Last night I cut a 1"x 1" square off my cycled filter bag and placed it under the sponge. My meter is still reading .05 (expected that kinda). I know it won't go down over night, but I'm hoping that transplant will help things out. ________________________________ From: Chris <crjm28@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:25:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33011	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm

Re-read my previous message. My A to Z page on my blog as links to a couple of ways to fishless cycle. I don't know what you are reading that says to reduce it by half. Where are you reading this? It would be helpful if you'd provide a link or the actual text of what you are reading... or trying to remember? Why not just look back at the article? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm So higher than 5ppm doesn't kill all the bacteria. I accidentally overdosed to around 9ppm. I read that once you get a nitrite peak (not sure when that is), you r supposed to reduce the amount of ammonia by half. Atleast that is what I think I remember. Half of 5 is 2.5ppm (or just 2). Is that what I want the ammonia test to show? Why reduce by half? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 8:55:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 9:09:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33012	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

Chris... there's a HUGE difference between advanced bio-engineered products like Bio-Spira and now, Dr. Tim's One And Only, and how they encapsulate the bacteria and put them into hibernation, compared to you wanting to mail a cycled filter. Go to Dr. Tim's site and read over all of his peer reviewed papers to see what went into these developments. Next... not wanting to burst your bubble... but with your idea, you would be sending a filter with detritus on it and without fresh oxygenated water flowing through the filter, the bacteria start to die off after a short time. Yes, you can preserve some of them by refrigeration but not for extended periods of time... so your customers would be getting a filter that may or may not have any live bacteria left in it. Next... and I'm not trying to be mean... but considering all of the fish health problems you keep having.. who would buy a filter from you? It's good to have aspirations but you need to learn how to crawl first and you're trying to run with the BIG DOG'S like Dr. Tim Hovenac who has been running multi-million dollar labs for over ten years and has many patents on things related to nitrifying bacteria. You are still struggling with understanding your first fishless cycle, based on your other thread you just started. You need to be concentrating on getting your fish healthy and doing your first fishless cycle instead of wasting your time on this business concept. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira Why warm when products like bio-spira are sold refrigerated? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 9:20:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33013	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

I seem to remember a guy saying the same thing... who thought he could fly by jumping off a cliff flapping his arms.... and then SPLATTT!!!! LOL All of the "will" in the world didn't work since he knew nothing about aeronautics. It also takes more than just "will" to develop healthy cycled filters.. it takes advanced understanding of biology, chemistry, etc. "Will" might come into play when training to run a marathon but not when dealing with developing living bacteria and sustaining them. There are some things that you can't just "will" into existence. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira Where there is a will there is a way. ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 12:36:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira Dr. Tim's One And Only costs under $10.00 (2 oz. for 30G tank). How would you make enough cycled filters to make enough money? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira pack with a cold pack ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Andreas <andreas1120@ gmail.com <mailto:andreas1120 %40gmail. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:41:24 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira how would you ship them without the bacteria dying A On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Chris <crjm28@yahoo. com> wrote: > Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 9:27:19 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33014	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor

I posted a recent blog article with a side-by-side comparison of the SeaChem pH Alert and the Mardel Live pH monitor and how the Mardel pH monitor NOT working worth a damn. I'm not sure if their ammonia monitor is as bad as their pH monitor. I would rely on an API test kit over either of the Mardel monitor any day.. and even over the SeaChem Alerts although they are much more accurate than the Mardel's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor I'm getting 2 different readings from the water in my q tank. The NH3 monitor is reading .05 and API is reading either .25 or .5ppm. I also don't understand why I'm getting an ammonia reading like I am. I fed the fish and then did a siphoning of the bottom of the q tank to get rid of all debris. Ended up doing around 90% water change. I gave the aqua clear filter a good rinsing, and added extra prime to neutralize the ammonia in the remaining water. I added about an inch of fresh zeolite over the sponge in the filter. That should have given me almost nothing in ammonia, but over night the ammonia went from .02 to .05. (and holding) Thats when I did my first api test. Is my monitor faulty, or is there something going on I don't understand As a side note: Last night I cut a 1"x 1" square off my cycled filter bag and placed it under the sponge. My meter is still reading .05 (expected that kinda). I know it won't go down over night, but I'm hoping that transplant will help things out. ________________________________ From: Chris <crjm28@... <mailto:crjm28%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:25:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] forget bio-spira Do you think there is money in mail ordered cycled filters? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 8:55:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081113-1, 11/13/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 9:30:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33015	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about phosphate levels

I cannot see enough detail in your photos to determine what's wrong with your fish, nor even see anything affecting your fish. Any images I've looked at of the actual fish are small and somewhat out of focus (not sharp enough). I realize some cameras are better than others in getting sharp, close-up shots. Perhaps your's is not designed for this purpose. While there may be no fish that are not immune from contracting hole- in-the-head disease (HITH), or lateral line disease, I have yet to see or hear of Tetras getting this. There are fish Families which are more prone to this disease, but I doubt Characins are one of them. If you're concerned about high phosphates, first check your water source. There are phosphate removers to install in your filter to reduce phosphates and silicas if it comes down to your needing to use them, albeit, they remove mostly soluable inorganic orthophosphates (PO4). Yes, any phosphates in fish waste and decomposed fish food would be organic phosphate (PO3). If your fish food waste contains any phosphate, it would be organic phosphate. Yes, most aquarium phosphate test kits detect only inorganic phosphate, this is mainly what you can expect if your water source has any level of it. Positive results for inorganic phosphate does not rule out the possibility of your developing organanic phosphate in your aquarium, as organic phosphate will convert to inorganic phosphate over time, which may be what you're finding. If however, your increased level of phosphate (as indicated), is rather sudden, I would look towards your water source rather than it being the result of fish waste and decaying fish foods. There are phosphate test kits available for finding organic phosphate (such as Hach Testing Co. -- # PO24), but these are more expensive, meant more for professional lab use. If it turns out that your tap water is relatively free of phosphate, you may need to just do larger and more frequent PWC's. Higher pH's will result in less free phosphate, as ionic action will combine this element with other available elements at such a higher pH. I'm not sure what your pH is, but more frequent water changes will help ensure that it doesn't drop. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > The stuff I'm reading about lateral line/ hole in head disease, which is one > of my theories of what is wrong with my tetra, suggests among other things > taht carbon filtration may release phosphates into the water taht somehow > aggravates the condition. > > I don't know about that, and I'm filtering the same way as I have for a long > time; however, when I used my old and new phosphate tests (two different > brands, one of tehm API) last weekend, I did notice that the phosphate > levels in my tank are about twice that of the already high phosphate levels > in my tap water. > > This puzzled me because the way I understand it, the test kits can only > detect inorganic phosphates. As I understand it, the phosphates in fish > wastes and decomposed fish food are organic phosphates and cannot be > detected by phosphate test kits. > > Anyone have any other ideas on why my phophate levels are high? Or can fish > or fish food waste contribute to the phosphate findings on phosphate tests, > in which case I have a water quality issue? > > I got a silicate test as well - but it is impossible to read. The levels > in teh aquarium do not seem appreciably different than in the tap water - > but with that test such a miniscule quantity of water is used that it was > hard to get consistent results on the same water sample. And that method > of dipping a plastic wand in the powderede reagent and picking up an > uncontrolled amount of powder is a pure joke. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33016	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about phosphate levels

Raymond, can phosphate tests detect PO3, or only PO4? I thought one of you said here that they can only detect PO4, which is why it's a mystery that they'd be higher in my tank. I did add some PhosGuard to my filter this morning, but it looks like the diatoms were already going to work on the problem - I see I've got the beginnings of a diatom bloom no my plastic plants. A couple of other people on the fish forums have thought they aren't ulcers,and looking more closely at the fish it looks like actually teh skin is not disturbed. Teh brown spots are discrete with discrete edges but they appear to be simply visible because teh fish has transparent skin. Someone said that dark or brown spots are common in fish and usually mean some digestive disturbance or other. I'm not find ing a whole lot in Google. Seems to be the general opinion my fish is constipated or else has parasites - and I should try some fresh food and some feed with metronidazole? Fish seems to have a normal interest in food. couldn't tell how much it was eating. They had chopped peas with garlic and a little cod liver oil for breakfast. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:54 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about phosphate levels I cannot see enough detail in your photos to determine what's wrong with your fish, nor even see anything affecting your fish. Any images I've looked at of the actual fish are small and somewhat out of focus (not sharp enough). I realize some cameras are better than others in getting sharp, close-up shots. Perhaps your's is not designed for this purpose. While there may be no fish that are not immune from contracting hole- in-the-head disease (HITH), or lateral line disease, I have yet to see or hear of Tetras getting this. There are fish Families which are more prone to this disease, but I doubt Characins are one of them. If you're concerned about high phosphates, first check your water source. There are phosphate removers to install in your filter to reduce phosphates and silicas if it comes down to your needing to use them, albeit, they remove mostly soluable inorganic orthophosphates (PO4). Yes, any phosphates in fish waste and decomposed fish food would be organic phosphate (PO3). If your fish food waste contains any phosphate, it would be organic phosphate. Yes, most aquarium phosphate test kits detect only inorganic phosphate, this is mainly what you can expect if your water source has any level of it. Positive results for inorganic phosphate does not rule out the possibility of your developing organanic phosphate in your aquarium, as organic phosphate will convert to inorganic phosphate over time, which may be what you're finding. If however, your increased level of phosphate (as indicated), is rather sudden, I would look towards your water source rather than it being the result of fish waste and decaying fish foods. There are phosphate test kits available for finding organic phosphate (such as Hach Testing Co. -- # PO24), but these are more expensive, meant more for professional lab use. If it turns out that your tap water is relatively free of phosphate, you may need to just do larger and more frequent PWC's. Higher pH's will result in less free phosphate, as ionic action will combine this element with other available elements at such a higher pH. I'm not sure what your pH is, but more frequent water changes will help ensure that it doesn't drop. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > The stuff I'm reading about lateral line/ hole in head disease, which is one > of my theories of what is wrong with my tetra, suggests among other things > taht carbon filtration may release phosphates into the water taht somehow > aggravates the condition. > > I don't know about that, and I'm filtering the same way as I have for a long > time; however, when I used my old and new phosphate tests (two different > brands, one of tehm API) last weekend, I did notice that the phosphate > levels in my tank are about twice that of the already high phosphate levels > in my tap water. > > This puzzled me because the way I understand it, the test kits can only > detect inorganic phosphates. As I understand it, the phosphates in fish > wastes and decomposed fish food are organic phosphates and cannot be > detected by phosphate test kits. > > Anyone have any other ideas on why my phophate levels are high? Or can fish > or fish food waste contribute to the phosphate findings on phosphate tests, > in which case I have a water quality issue? > > I got a silicate test as well - but it is impossible to read. The levels > in teh aquarium do not seem appreciably different than in the tap water - > but with that test such a miniscule quantity of water is used that it was > hard to get consistent results on the same water sample. And that method > of dipping a plastic wand in the powderede reagent and picking up an > uncontrolled amount of powder is a pure joke. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33017	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

Python doesn't seem to sell this directly, but I did a search online and found a few places that sell the quick release coupling, which comes with the part that goes on your faucet and the part that is on the python end to attach to the faucet piece. I already have the one on my faucet downstairs in my kitchen but the one that comes with the kit will help for my upstairs faucet (hopefully at least, hehe). Amber Dana Rasmussen wrote: > > > I already have a "quick coupling" for my little portable dishwasher > > (yeah portable if you want to lug around 100 lbs). Does your coupling > > start big and end skinny? Like half of an hour-glass shape.... If so > > then I should be able to get a quick release unit from python for the > > new python tank cleaner I'm getting (hopefully). > > > > Amber > Exactly. > On my Python the pump valve thing is a standard water hose thread which is > the same as most of the hoses for dishwashers I have seen. I don't know if > the Python people sell the quick release, but both the local hardware > stores > near by knew exactly what I needed. > Dana Rasmussen > Seattle > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33018	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Question about "browning patches" on fish

Someone on one of the fish boards caused me to take another look at my fish's brown spots, and they aren't actually on the surface of the fish's skin. The skin is intact. The dark spots are on surfaces under the skin and show through it because the skin is transparent. Tehy do however have definite borders. Guy said that "browning patches" are a common sight on fish and are caused by intestinal protozoans. Now the guy is a typical grouchy fish person. Not going to tell me more useful information. Google brown spots fish adn see wehre that gets you, and browning patches got me exactly the same place. (Brown spots on various structures in the aquarium.) Does anyone here know what he is talking about, how to find more information, what intestinal parasites, and what to treat them with? Fish disease books aren't being much help. Don't think they've ever heard of browning patches. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33019	From: Rebecca	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

I was crushed when mine didn't fit. Turns out I had to take a rubber washer out for one sink and for another sink I had to go buy a brass piece that fits inside of my sink and inside of the pump. My husband figured that all out while I had a $70 hissy fit. ;) -Lady Shmoe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33020	From: Rebecca	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor

I will never be using any kind of strip test again. I *thought* my tank was cycled because everything read within normal limits with my strips. Naturally I was excited, added my fish, and three weeks later I had dead fish. Bought API test kit and wouldn't ya know I had nitrAtes and nitrItes? My pH was 6.2! Go for the gold...use an API test kit. I saw for myself that they are more accurate. Good luck!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33021	From: Scott Jackson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor

I would definitely go with the AP test over the monitor.  I tried a SeaChem ammonia monitor and found it to be inn-accurate right out of the box.  Typically it was off by a factor of 10 if the monitor read .05 ppm the API test would record approx. .5 PPM. I then was using it in a tank that I was fishless cycling, which was pretty cool to watch the monitor go from being maxed out back to 0 ppm.  It was much easier than constantly testing the ammonia levels.  I didn't realize this at the time but the monitor accuracy became totally messed up.  I was moments away from adding fish to the tank and I decided to double check the ammonia with my API test kit and found it way over the high limit, it turned colors I have never seen before.  I had to do a 75% PWC and then a 50% PWC to get it down to 4 PPM and let the bacteria get started up again.  At some point the bacteria must have shut down and I kept adding ammonia because the monitor read 0 ppm. I am sure that constantly cycling between high and low levels of ammonia fried this little meter but I would not trust them without occasional double checking. Regards, Scott ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:30:38 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor I posted a recent blog article with a side-by-side comparison of the SeaChem pH Alert and the Mardel Live pH monitor and how the Mardel pH monitor NOT working worth a damn. I'm not sure if their ammonia monitor is as bad as their pH monitor. I would rely on an API test kit over either of the Mardel monitor any day.. and even over the SeaChem Alerts although they are much more accurate than the Mardel's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Recent Activity *  22 New Members *  46 New Photos *  2 New LinksVisit Your Group Dog Zone on Yahoo! Groups Join a Group all about dogs. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! Yahoo! Groups Everyday Wellness Zone Check out featured healthy living groups. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33022	From: Rebecca	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Medications question

Right on Lenny! I have always turned to Melafix first in most situations. Of course, each situation is case specific. Pimafix is new to me but I am currently using both and none of my babies have died since I began their treatment with Melafix and Pimafix. If I needed to pull out the big guns I'd move up to an appropriate antibiotic but these seem to do well for a first line of defense.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33023	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor

Rebecca, NitrAtes are the normal third phase of the Nitrogen Cycle in a properly cycled tank and we control the nitrAte levels to keep them at least below 40ppm or below 20ppm would be better, by doing regular and frequent (weekly or more often) 25% PWC's. Now, NitrItes means the tank wasn't fully cycled. NitrItes are the second phase of the Nitrogen Cycle, with Ammonia being the first phase. I'm not sure that API is the gold standard but it's certainly a very accurate and very affordable Master Test Kit. It's much less expensive than using the dip strips also when you look at the number of tests you'll get from an API kit compared to the 25 or 50 dip strips. I've been using the API test kits for years and also have used the Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kit for several years and they are both low cost (under $20.00) and accurate. The SeaChem ammonia alert, when I used one several years ago, worked fine and they can be helpful for folks when they do filter maintenance to make sure they did not over clean their filters, or when adding meds that might affect the biological filtration, etc.. I did recently get the SeaChem pH alert and Mardel Live pH monitor and the SeaChem pH alert is far more accurate... actually right on.... compared to the Mardel which is not very accurate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rebecca Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 3:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor I will never be using any kind of strip test again. I *thought* my tank was cycled because everything read within normal limits with my strips. Naturally I was excited, added my fish, and three weeks later I had dead fish. Bought API test kit and wouldn't ya know I had nitrAtes and nitrItes? My pH was 6.2! Go for the gold...use an API test kit. I saw for myself that they are more accurate. Good luck! _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 4:07:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33024	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor

Scott, I don't have a SeaChem Ammonia Alert any longer but looking at the SeaChem page on them http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html I see they are mainly looking for "free ammonia" as opposed to total ammonia which is the reason for the difference in the test results. Here is what SeaChem says in their "Interpretation" section... and something I never noticed before is that the SeaChem Ammonia Alert is not recommended for acidic pH levels (below 7.0 pH). (START SNIP) Interpretation As little as 0.02 mg/L of free ammonia will produce a greenish hue on the detector surface. This corresponds to a total ammonia (both ionized and free ammonia) of 0.25 mg/L in marine water at pH 8.3. In freshwater at pH 7.0, this corresponds to 3.6 mg/L total ammonia. Free ammonia is much more toxic than ionized ammonia. As free ammonia, the ALERT color corresponds to about 0.05 mg/L, ALARM to about 0.2 mg/L, and TOXIC to about 0.5 mg/L. The ALERT concentration is tolerated for several days, ALARM for a few days, and TOXIC is rapidly harmful. This product is not recommended for use at acid pH. (END SNIP) This is one of the many fishless cycling pages and this page uses the SeaChem Ammonia Alert as their tool to monitor ammonia levels when doing the fishless cycle. A separate nitrite test would also be needed and eventually nitrate test to make sure it's working. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html And yes, these are only "Alerts"... they do not replace regular water testing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Jackson Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor I would definitely go with the AP test over the monitor. I tried a SeaChem ammonia monitor and found it to be inn-accurate right out of the box. Typically it was off by a factor of 10 if the monitor read .05 ppm the API test would record approx. .5 PPM. I then was using it in a tank that I was fishless cycling, which was pretty cool to watch the monitor go from being maxed out back to 0 ppm. It was much easier than constantly testing the ammonia levels. I didn't realize this at the time but the monitor accuracy became totally messed up. I was moments away from adding fish to the tank and I decided to double check the ammonia with my API test kit and found it way over the high limit, it turned colors I have never seen before. I had to do a 75% PWC and then a 50% PWC to get it down to 4 PPM and let the bacteria get started up again. At some point the bacteria must have shut down and I kept adding ammonia because the monitor read 0 ppm. I am sure that constantly cycling between high and low levels of ammonia fried this little meter but I would not trust them without occasional double checking. Regards, Scott ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:30:38 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor I posted a recent blog article with a side-by-side comparison of the SeaChem pH Alert and the Mardel Live pH monitor and how the Mardel pH monitor NOT working worth a damn. I'm not sure if their ammonia monitor is as bad as their pH monitor. I would rely on an API test kit over either of the Mardel monitor any day.. and even over the SeaChem Alerts although they are much more accurate than the Mardel's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 4:17:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Python Vac/Hose

Heck... if my ex-wife's hissy fits only cost me $70.00, I'd still be married. Hers usually cost me a LOT MORE... thus the "ex" part. LOL Welcome to the group BTW. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rebecca Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Python Vac/Hose I was crushed when mine didn't fit. Turns out I had to take a rubber washer out for one sink and for another sink I had to go buy a brass piece that fits inside of my sink and inside of the pump. My husband figured that all out while I had a $70 hissy fit. ;) -Lady Shmoe _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 4:19:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33026	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: about peas and Gold fish

I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I need to know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in half? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33027	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each for small goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG goldfish) and put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it all up in a couple of minutes, then it's OK. When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a little and then scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just pinch the skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew them up on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... when feeding them pea "meat". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I need to know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in half? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 4:47:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33028	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about phosphate levels

Dora, You may call me as I sign ("Ray"), thank you. As for your first question here, why do you repeatedly do this (ask a question that was already given to you)? If you were to read my detailed reply to you -- the one that you just replied to -- you would have seen my statement; "YES, MOST AQUARIUM PHOSPHATE TEST KITS DETECT ONLY INORGANIC PHOSPHATE" (first sentence, fourth paragraph). I also went on to say: "THERE ARE PHOSPHATE TEST KITS AVAILABLE FOR FINDING ORGANIC PHOSPHATE (SUCH AS HACH TESTING CO. -- # PH24), BUT THESE ARE MORE EXPENSIVE< MEANT MORE FOR PROFESSIONAL LAB USE." If I see you ask a question again after I already answered it, it will be a cold day in H*** before I answer you again. You you think I'm grumpy to, but your antics are getting OLD! As for which one is PO3 and which one is PO4, I've already answered that to, and won't go into it again (reread my post, if you need to know). Whose "general opinion" is it that your Tetras have internal parasites? Do not use medications indiscrimitely. Brown spots equating to parasites is a new one on me, nor have I ever heard it associated with indigestion. Some fish will take on slight changes in color, such as minor spots here and there -- and the fact that they are almost identically positioned on both sides of the fish, as I believe you said, would indicate its a natural occurance, not a disease. The peas you fed them for breakfast should alleviate any constipation, if you've determined the fish are affected in this manner, although aside from brown spots, you haven't indicated why you suspect this. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Raymond, can phosphate tests detect PO3, or only PO4? I thought one of you > said here that they can only detect PO4, which is why it's a mystery that > they'd be higher in my tank. > > I did add some PhosGuard to my filter this morning, but it looks like the > diatoms were already going to work on the problem - I see I've got the > beginnings of a diatom bloom no my plastic plants. > > A couple of other people on the fish forums have thought they aren't > ulcers,and looking more closely at the fish it looks like actually teh skin > is not disturbed. Teh brown spots are discrete with discrete edges but they > appear to be simply visible because teh fish has transparent skin. > > Someone said that dark or brown spots are common in fish and usually mean > some digestive disturbance or other. I'm not find ing a whole lot in > Google. > > Seems to be the general opinion my fish is constipated or else has > parasites - and I should try some fresh food and some feed with > metronidazole? > > Fish seems to have a normal interest in food. couldn't tell how much it was > eating. They had chopped peas with garlic and a little cod liver oil for > breakfast. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:54 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about phosphate levels > > > I cannot see enough detail in your photos to determine what's wrong > with your fish, nor even see anything affecting your fish. Any > images I've looked at of the actual fish are small and somewhat out > of focus (not sharp enough). I realize some cameras are better than > others in getting sharp, close-up shots. Perhaps your's is not > designed for this purpose. > > While there may be no fish that are not immune from contracting hole- > in-the-head disease (HITH), or lateral line disease, I have yet to > see or hear of Tetras getting this. There are fish Families which > are more prone to this disease, but I doubt Characins are one of them. > > If you're concerned about high phosphates, first check your water > source. There are phosphate removers to install in your filter to > reduce phosphates and silicas if it comes down to your needing to use > them, albeit, they remove mostly soluable inorganic orthophosphates > (PO4). Yes, any phosphates in fish waste and decomposed fish food > would be organic phosphate (PO3). If your fish food waste contains > any phosphate, it would be organic phosphate. > > Yes, most aquarium phosphate test kits detect only inorganic > phosphate, this is mainly what you can expect if your water source > has any level of it. Positive results for inorganic phosphate does > not rule out the possibility of your developing organanic phosphate > in your aquarium, as organic phosphate will convert to inorganic > phosphate over time, which may be what you're finding. If however, > your increased level of phosphate (as indicated), is rather sudden, I > would look towards your water source rather than it being the result > of fish waste and decaying fish foods. There are phosphate test kits > available for finding organic phosphate (such as Hach Testing Co. -- > # PO24), but these are more expensive, meant more for professional > lab use. > > If it turns out that your tap water is relatively free of phosphate, > you may need to just do larger and more frequent PWC's. Higher pH's > will result in less free phosphate, as ionic action will combine this > element with other available elements at such a higher pH. I'm not > sure what your pH is, but more frequent water changes will help > ensure that it doesn't drop. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > wrote: > > > > The stuff I'm reading about lateral line/ hole in head disease, > which is one > > of my theories of what is wrong with my tetra, suggests among other > things > > taht carbon filtration may release phosphates into the water taht > somehow > > aggravates the condition. > > > > I don't know about that, and I'm filtering the same way as I have > for a long > > time; however, when I used my old and new phosphate tests (two > different > > brands, one of tehm API) last weekend, I did notice that the > phosphate > > levels in my tank are about twice that of the already high > phosphate levels > > in my tap water. > > > > This puzzled me because the way I understand it, the test kits can > only > > detect inorganic phosphates. As I understand it, the phosphates > in fish > > wastes and decomposed fish food are organic phosphates and cannot > be > > detected by phosphate test kits. > > > > Anyone have any other ideas on why my phophate levels are high? Or > can fish > > or fish food waste contribute to the phosphate findings on > phosphate tests, > > in which case I have a water quality issue? > > > > I got a silicate test as well - but it is impossible to read. The > levels > > in teh aquarium do not seem appreciably different than in the tap > water - > > but with that test such a miniscule quantity of water is used that > it was > > hard to get consistent results on the same water sample. And that > method > > of dipping a plastic wand in the powderede reagent and picking up > an > > uncontrolled amount of powder is a pure joke. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33029	From: Philip	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each for small > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG goldfish) and > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it all up in > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two halves > onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a little and then > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just pinch the > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew them up > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but it's > better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to digest and > that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... when feeding > them pea "meat". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of angelandchase49@... > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I need to > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in half? > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 > Tested on: 11/14/2008 4:47:25 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33030	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

Ty  I just want to make sure they are well taken care off considering the fact that they had poor care before i got them -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 5:47 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each for small goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG goldfish) and put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it all up in a couple of minutes, then it's OK. When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a little and then scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just pinch the skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew them up on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... when feeding them pea "meat". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I need to know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in half? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 4:47:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links (Yahoo! ID required) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33031	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each for small > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG goldfish) and > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it all up in > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > little and then > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just pinch the > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew them up > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > when feeding them pea "meat". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of angelandchase49@... > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I need to > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in half? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 5:19:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33032	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about "browning patches" on fish

They are normal pigmentation changes in the dermis (growing layer) of the skin. Whoever this "Guy" you're mentioning is, who diagnoses your fish as having intestinal protozoans because of brown patches on the skin, I hope he has some ichthyological pathogen training to back this up as I've never heard of it. I would not be too concerned about your fishes' health at this time if they are otherwise eating well acting normal and passing normal droppings. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Someone on one of the fish boards caused me to take another look at my > fish's brown spots, and they aren't actually on the surface of the fish's > skin. The skin is intact. > > The dark spots are on surfaces under the skin and show through it because > the skin is transparent. Tehy do however have definite borders. > > Guy said that "browning patches" are a common sight on fish and are caused > by intestinal protozoans. Now the guy is a typical grouchy fish person. > Not going to tell me more useful information. Google brown spots fish adn > see wehre that gets you, and browning patches got me exactly the same place. > (Brown spots on various structures in the aquarium.) > > Does anyone here know what he is talking about, how to find more > information, what intestinal parasites, and what to treat them with? > > Fish disease books aren't being much help. Don't think they've ever heard > of browning patches. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33033	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

Just don't be shocked when you see nice healthy green turds floating around.. or rather tumbling around. LOL With goldfish, what goes in is what comes out. They have a really short and fast digestive system. If the turds are floaters, that could be because the other foods you feed them have too much fillers in them which cause gas issues... especially with fancy goldfish. If you do get floaters, try to figure out which fish it's coming from and get more peas into that one and watch what you feed it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish Ty I just want to make sure they are well taken care off considering the fact that they had poor care before i got them -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 5:47 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each for small goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG goldfish) and put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it all up in a couple of minutes, then it's OK. When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a little and then scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just pinch the skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew them up on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... when feeding them pea "meat". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I need to know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in half? _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 5:22:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33034	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about "browning patches" on fish

Like Ray said, since it's on both sides of the fish, it sounds genetic but if the fish had an injury or parasitic bite on both sides in the same place, it could be "melanophore migration" (Google it!). I know this happens with goldfish but I'm guessing it could happen with other fish as well. I haven't seen it before with my tropical's though, so maybe they don't have this pigmentation issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about "browning patches" on fish Someone on one of the fish boards caused me to take another look at my fish's brown spots, and they aren't actually on the surface of the fish's skin. The skin is intact. The dark spots are on surfaces under the skin and show through it because the skin is transparent. Tehy do however have definite borders. Guy said that "browning patches" are a common sight on fish and are caused by intestinal protozoans. Now the guy is a typical grouchy fish person. Not going to tell me more useful information. Google brown spots fish adn see wehre that gets you, and browning patches got me exactly the same place. (Brown spots on various structures in the aquarium.) Does anyone here know what he is talking about, how to find more information, what intestinal parasites, and what to treat them with? Fish disease books aren't being much help. Don't think they've ever heard of browning patches. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 5:27:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33035	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

I'm sorry, Guppies and Platys. --- On Fri, 11/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 6:19 PM I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Philip Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each for small > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG goldfish) and > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it all up in > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > little and then > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just pinch the > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew them up > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > when feeding them pea "meat". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > Behalf Of angelandchase49@ ... > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > ; freshwateraquariums @yahoogroups. com > <mailto:freshwatera quariums% 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I need to > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in half? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 5:19:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33036	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

"WHAT ARE MOONS?" MOONS can be seen on STREAKERS (ROTFL). Sorry, I couldn't resist. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a > blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get > all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they > don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I > need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a > home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Philip > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish > > While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each > for small > > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG > goldfish) and > > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it > all up in > > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > > little > and then > > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just > pinch the > > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew > them up > > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > > when feeding them pea "meat". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of angelandchase49@ > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > ; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I > need to > > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in > half? > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 > Tested on: 11/14/2008 5:19:41 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33037	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

Actually, so as not to be misleading, only the Platy's (not the Guppies). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: > > I'm sorry, Guppies and Platys. > > --- On Fri, 11/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 6:19 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a > > blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get > > all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they > > don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I > > need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a > > home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Philip > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish > > > > While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each > > for small > > > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG > > goldfish) and > > > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > > > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it > > all up in > > > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > > > > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > > > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > > > little > > and then > > > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just > > pinch the > > > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew > > them up > > > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > > > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > > > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > > > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > > > when feeding them pea "meat". > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of angelandchase49@ ... > > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > > ; freshwateraquariums @yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:freshwatera quariums% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > > > > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I > > need to > > > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in > > half? > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 > > Tested on: 11/14/2008 5:19:41 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33038	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Filtration... and why we need to keep them clean

I just added the below info to my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" but thought I would post it to the groups as well, because of a recent funny post in the Ponds-Koi Yahoo Group by Bill Dowden, owner of <http://www.CoastalPond.com> http://www.CoastalPond.com in Georgia, USA, so the following few paragraphs are about a Pond Filter but are still applicable to ALL filters. (START SNIP) FILTRATION: HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't doing its job and working to get the junk out of the water. Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take organics out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = rocks = really aren't a problem.) If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but also not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the water in solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. SO, the object of a good pond keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = clean the organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other day, every third day....... Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? Why not the fishes' also. :-) Bill (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 5:48:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33039	From: Scott Jackson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor

Ok that makes sense if the monitor is only measuring for free ammonia Vs total ammonia.   My PH had crashed to around 6.5 from a starting point of  7.6.  That was why the meter started out fairly accurate it measured a large part of the ammonia as free amonia. Over time as the water became more acidic the ammonia didn't register on the meter.  I totally spaced adding the right amount of buffering capabilities to this tank, which was my problem in the first place.  I just didn't catch it because I thought the meter was reading total ammonia.  An earlier PH test would have helped me too.  Well I am happy to think that if I used this product more carefully I would have had better results.  I will try this again in the future.  I really wish they put this info on the box, I am sure I am not the only one that has gotten mixed up on this. Lenny, thanks for the useful info! ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 5:17:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor Scott, I don't have a SeaChem Ammonia Alert any longer but looking at the SeaChem page on them http://www.seachem. com/Products/ product_pages/ AmmoniaAlert. html I see they are mainly looking for "free ammonia" as opposed to total ammonia which is the reason for the difference in the test results. Here is what SeaChem says in their "Interpretation" section... and something I never noticed before is that the SeaChem Ammonia Alert is not recommended for acidic pH levels (below 7.0 pH). (START SNIP) Interpretation As little as 0.02 mg/L of free ammonia will produce a greenish hue on the detector surface. This corresponds to a total ammonia (both ionized and free ammonia) of 0.25 mg/L in marine water at pH 8.3. In freshwater at pH 7.0, this corresponds to 3.6 mg/L total ammonia. Free ammonia is much more toxic than ionized ammonia. As free ammonia, the ALERT color corresponds to about 0.05 mg/L, ALARM to about 0.2 mg/L, and TOXIC to about 0.5 mg/L. The ALERT concentration is tolerated for several days, ALARM for a few days, and TOXIC is rapidly harmful. This product is not recommended for use at acid pH. (END SNIP) This is one of the many fishless cycling pages and this page uses the SeaChem Ammonia Alert as their tool to monitor ammonia levels when doing the fishless cycle. A separate nitrite test would also be needed and eventually nitrate test to make sure it's working. http://www.csupomon a.edu/~jskoga/ Aquariums/ Ammonia.html And yes, these are only "Alerts"... they do not replace regular water testing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Scott Jackson Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor I would definitely go with the AP test over the monitor. I tried a SeaChem ammonia monitor and found it to be inn-accurate right out of the box. Typically it was off by a factor of 10 if the monitor read .05 ppm the API test would record approx. .5 PPM. I then was using it in a tank that I was fishless cycling, which was pretty cool to watch the monitor go from being maxed out back to 0 ppm. It was much easier than constantly testing the ammonia levels. I didn't realize this at the time but the monitor accuracy became totally messed up. I was moments away from adding fish to the tank and I decided to double check the ammonia with my API test kit and found it way over the high limit, it turned colors I have never seen before. I had to do a 75% PWC and then a 50% PWC to get it down to 4 PPM and let the bacteria get started up again. At some point the bacteria must have shut down and I kept adding ammonia because the monitor read 0 ppm. I am sure that constantly cycling between high and low levels of ammonia fried this little meter but I would not trust them without occasional double checking. Regards, Scott ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:30:38 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor I posted a recent blog article with a side-by-side comparison of the SeaChem pH Alert and the Mardel Live pH monitor and how the Mardel pH monitor NOT working worth a damn. I'm not sure if their ammonia monitor is as bad as their pH monitor. I would rely on an API test kit over either of the Mardel monitor any day.. and even over the SeaChem Alerts although they are much more accurate than the Mardel's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 4:17:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33040	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

Or in emoticons (smileys)... ( ! ) and ( ! ) Ray, you've just been e-mooned by Lenny and Bill (Sorry Bill.. but you said you were BIG). LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish "WHAT ARE MOONS?" MOONS can be seen on STREAKERS (ROTFL). Sorry, I couldn't resist. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a > blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get > all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they > don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I > need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a > home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Philip > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish > > While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each > for small > > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG > goldfish) and > > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it > all up in > > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > > little > and then > > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just > pinch the > > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew > them up > > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > > when feeding them pea "meat". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of angelandchase49@ > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > ; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I > need to > > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in > half? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 6:12:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33041	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

What is the home-made gel food with goodies? Like jello??? Barbara In a message dated 11/14/2008 6:19:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each for small > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG goldfish) and > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it all up in > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > little and then > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just pinch the > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew them up > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > when feeding them pea "meat". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of angelandchase49@... > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I need to > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in half? **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33042	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

There are dozens, if not hundreds of DIY foods and recipe's for DIY gel-foods and yes, many of them use the plain gelatin as a base, but here are a few I have in my favorites folder. http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4468/recipes.html http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/Food.html (and lots of other food info) And a medicated gel-food if needed... http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedGelFood.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish What is the home-made gel food with goodies? Like jello??? Barbara In a message dated 11/14/2008 6:19:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Philip Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each for small > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG goldfish) and > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it all up in > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > little and then > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just pinch the > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew them up > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > when feeding them pea "meat". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of angelandchase49@... > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I need to > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in half? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 6:22:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33043	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor

ohwell. hehe. ________________________________ From: Scott Jackson <shakedownscott@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:17:42 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor I would definitely go with the AP test over the monitor. I tried a SeaChem ammonia monitor and found it to be inn-accurate right out of the box. Typically it was off by a factor of 10 if the monitor read .05 ppm the API test would record approx. .5 PPM. I then was using it in a tank that I was fishless cycling, which was pretty cool to watch the monitor go from being maxed out back to 0 ppm. It was much easier than constantly testing the ammonia levels. I didn't realize this at the time but the monitor accuracy became totally messed up. I was moments away from adding fish to the tank and I decided to double check the ammonia with my API test kit and found it way over the high limit, it turned colors I have never seen before. I had to do a 75% PWC and then a 50% PWC to get it down to 4 PPM and let the bacteria get started up again. At some point the bacteria must have shut down and I kept adding ammonia because the monitor read 0 ppm. I am sure that constantly cycling between high and low levels of ammonia fried this little meter but I would not trust them without occasional double checking. Regards, Scott ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:30:38 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia - API vs Mardel monitor I posted a recent blog article with a side-by-side comparison of the SeaChem pH Alert and the Mardel Live pH monitor and how the Mardel pH monitor NOT working worth a damn. I'm not sure if their ammonia monitor is as bad as their pH monitor. I would rely on an API test kit over either of the Mardel monitor any day.. and even over the SeaChem Alerts although they are much more accurate than the Mardel's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Recent Activity * 22 New Members * 46 New Photos * 2 New LinksVisit Your Group Dog Zone on Yahoo! Groups Join a Group all about dogs. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! Yahoo! Groups Everyday Wellness Zone Check out featured healthy living groups. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33044	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Jumping Pleco

Has anyone ever experianced a pleco jumping out of the tank and thus comitting suicide???? Mine was missing and I thought he just found a new hiding place. Just found his body behind the tank on the floor all dried up like a mummy :(

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Jumping Pleco

All fish can and will jump... well maybe not some fancy goldfish who do more waddling than swimming. Pleco's and many other catfish and other fish species get easily startled. When they get startled, they head off in a direction, opposite of what startled them, which sometimes might send them skyward. A tight fitting lid with cut-outs only large enough for the apparatus that have to go through them will prevent most jumpers but even then, it can and does still happen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Jumping Pleco Has anyone ever experianced a pleco jumping out of the tank and thus comitting suicide???? Mine was missing and I thought he just found a new hiding place. Just found his body behind the tank on the floor all dried up like a mummy :( _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 6:42:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33046	From: bill1433	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

Ya, if you don't mind Lenny, I'd like to get in on that recipe too!   How's about brakin' out ye olde cookbook?   Bill --- On Fri, 11/14/08, Maxmillionmaxcat@... <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> wrote: From: Maxmillionmaxcat@... <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 7:07 PM What is the home-made gel food with goodies? Like jello??? Barbara In a message dated 11/14/2008 6:19:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. com writes: I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Philip Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each for small > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG goldfish) and > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it all up in > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > little and then > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just pinch the > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew them up > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > when feeding them pea "meat". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > Behalf Of angelandchase49@ ... > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > ; freshwateraquariums @yahoogroups. com > <mailto:freshwatera quariums% 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I need to > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in half? ************ **Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100000075x121277 4565x1200812037/ aol?redir= htt p://toolbar. aol.com/moviefon e/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33047	From: bill1433	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

Sorry Lenny,   If your refering to me, "Bill" from warrenprint, I said I was LARGE. I was big once but that was in 1971.   Have a bit of mercy..............................I haven't seen my belt buckel since 1964.   Bill --- On Fri, 11/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 7:12 PM Or in emoticons (smileys)... ( ! ) and ( ! ) Ray, you've just been e-mooned by Lenny and Bill (Sorry Bill.. but you said you were BIG). LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish "WHAT ARE MOONS?" MOONS can be seen on STREAKERS (ROTFL). Sorry, I couldn't resist. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a > blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get > all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they > don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I > need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a > home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > Behalf Of Philip > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish > > While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each > for small > > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG > goldfish) and > > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it > all up in > > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > > little > and then > > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just > pinch the > > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew > them up > > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > > when feeding them pea "meat". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of angelandchase49@ > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > ; freshwateraquariums @yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:freshwatera quariums% 40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:freshwatera quariums% 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I > need to > > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in > half? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 6:12:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33048	From: bill1433	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

Sorry Lenny,   If your refering to me, "Bill" from warrenprint, I said I was LARGE. I was big once but that was in 1971. Have a bit of mercy..............................I haven't seen my belt buckel since 1964.   Bill --- On Fri, 11/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 7:12 PM Or in emoticons (smileys)... ( ! ) and ( ! ) Ray, you've just been e-mooned by Lenny and Bill (Sorry Bill.. but you said you were BIG). LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish "WHAT ARE MOONS?" MOONS can be seen on STREAKERS (ROTFL). Sorry, I couldn't resist. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a > blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get > all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they > don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I > need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a > home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > Behalf Of Philip > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish > > While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each > for small > > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG > goldfish) and > > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it > all up in > > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > > little > and then > > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just > pinch the > > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew > them up > > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > > when feeding them pea "meat". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of angelandchase49@ > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > ; freshwateraquariums @yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:freshwatera quariums% 40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:freshwatera quariums% 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I > need to > > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in > half? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 6:12:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33049	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: forget bio-spira

i wouldn't use filtered from a cycled aquarium. That would mess up my tank Next... and I'm not trying to be mean... but considering all of the fish health problems you keep having.. who would buy a filter from you? <<< I dunno. Why should I listen to someone who relys on other people's links in his blog and acts like a know-it-all? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33050	From: cheryl smith	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

i give mine goldfish , orange cut in half  pea ,  fruit loops --- On Fri, 11/14/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 7:59 PM Sorry Lenny,   If your refering to me, "Bill" from warrenprint, I said I was LARGE. I was big once but that was in 1971. Have a bit of mercy....... ......... ......... .....I haven't seen my belt buckel since 1964.   Bill --- On Fri, 11/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 7:12 PM Or in emoticons (smileys)... ( ! ) and ( ! ) Ray, you've just been e-mooned by Lenny and Bill (Sorry Bill.. but you said you were BIG). LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish "WHAT ARE MOONS?" MOONS can be seen on STREAKERS (ROTFL). Sorry, I couldn't resist. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > I think a varied diet is good for all fish. What are moons? I'm drawing a > blank on this but I'm sure it will be obvious when you answer. My fish get > all kinds of veggies (most recently frozen mixed vegetables although they > don't seem to like the carrot pieces as much as everything else. I think I > need to blanch the carrots more.), a variety of good commercial foods, a > home-made gel food with all kinds of goodies in it, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > Behalf Of Philip > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about peas and Gold fish > > While on this subject. Is is advisable to feed guppies and moons peas? > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I normally defrost several peas per goldfish (one or two peas each > for small > > goldfish, several peas each for medium goldfish, ten for BIG > goldfish) and > > put them in a small plastic container (8 oz. sour cream container > > currently.. lol) in some hot water. As long as they are eating it > all up in > > a couple of minutes, then it's OK. > > > > When my goldfish were small, I'd pinch the skin to squirt the two > > halves onto a small plate and then use a fork to smash the halves a > > little > and then > > scrape that into the tank. Now that mine are big enough, I just > pinch the > > skin, squirting the two halves into the tank and the goldfish chew > them up > > on their own. It's best to NOT feed the skin but I have accidentally > > dropped a whole pea into the tank and it didn't cause problems but > > it's better to just feed the pea "meat" as the skin is harder to > > digest and that's usually what we're trying to fix... or keep fixed... > > when feeding them pea "meat". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of angelandchase49@ > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > ; freshwateraquariums @yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:freshwatera quariums% 40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:freshwatera quariums% 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] about peas and Gold fish > > > > I bought a bag of frozen peas to feed to the gold fish i have? but I > need to > > know how much to feed each one they are petite should i cut them in > half? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 6:12:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33051	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: Question about phosphate levels

Sorry, Ray, I saw the sentence that most things to remove phosphate remove only inorganic phosphate, but not the sentence about testing for it - and I thought I looked. Thanks for the answer on the brown patches idea. I was starting to wonder if that guy knows what he's talking about. I ordered some stuff to treat parasites; by the time it arrives maybe I'll have a better idea if the fish ahs them. Meanwhile the tank got a good cleaning, which it benefitted from, and the fish have pigged out on peas and vitamin enriched brine shrimp. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 5:02 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about phosphate levels Dora, You may call me as I sign ("Ray"), thank you. As for your first question here, why do you repeatedly do this (ask a question that was already given to you)? If you were to read my detailed reply to you -- the one that you just replied to -- you would have seen my statement; "YES, MOST AQUARIUM PHOSPHATE TEST KITS DETECT ONLY INORGANIC PHOSPHATE" (first sentence, fourth paragraph). I also went on to say: "THERE ARE PHOSPHATE TEST KITS AVAILABLE FOR FINDING ORGANIC PHOSPHATE (SUCH AS HACH TESTING CO. -- # PH24), BUT THESE ARE MORE EXPENSIVE< MEANT MORE FOR PROFESSIONAL LAB USE." If I see you ask a question again after I already answered it, it will be a cold day in H*** before I answer you again. You you think I'm grumpy to, but your antics are getting OLD! As for which one is PO3 and

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: The POLLS page - http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/poll

If you haven't visited the POLLS page take a few minutes to go and vote in six polls that are still open. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/polls> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/polls Some of them have hundreds of votes already but a few of them still have a long way to go so let you voice be heard... it's the last chance to vote for a couple of years for many of us! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 9:44:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33053	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Question about "browning patches" on fish

Here is a good sight with common fish diseases. _Tropical Fish Disease Identification with pictures and cures._ (http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identification.html) Joey www.pbase.com/joesbirds **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33054	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question about "

Joey, Thanks for the link. I was looking at that page and at first glace, I was thinking... wow.. this looks so familiar to Pandora's Fish Palace Disease page (which went off the net a couple of years ago)... at least it had many of the same photos, and then when I scrolled back up to the top, I saw where Badman did acknowledge that he worked with the former hosting service for her site to replicate her page after her site went down. Badman did not include everything from Pandora's old site but you can still view the original page with even more photos and information since it was Archived on the Internet Wayback Archive Machine which takes working (links work) snapshots of every page on the internet several times a year. Here's the original page but it will take a minute to load on a DSL line due to the dozens of photos on the page.... much longer if you're still on dial-up. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html Here's the TinyURL since the above link will likely wrap/break - http://www.tinyurl.com/2m83ee Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joesbirds@... Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish Here is a good sight with common fish diseases. _Tropical Fish Disease Identification with pictures and cures._ (http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat ion.html <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat ion.html> ) Joey www.pbase.com/joesbirds _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 10:14:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33055	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm

No, you do not reduce the ammonia level in your tank. Each day you want to add enough ammonia to bring the level to 5 ppm. If you reduce the amount of ammonia, you will be reducing the size of the bacterial colonies you are creating, and then they may not be large enough to handle the number/size of the fish you are adding once the cycle has become established, creating, at least, a mini-cycle where the bacteria are playing a game of catch-up with the bio-load in the tank. Once the bacteria can convert the daily load of 5 ppm of ammonia to nitrites, you need to keep the load up so you can create the next colony that will convert the nitrites to nitrates to keep up with the load that is being created. Reducing the ammonia will reduce the load. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm So higher than 5ppm doesn't kill all the bacteria. I accidentally overdosed to around 9ppm. I read that once you get a nitrite peak (not sure when that is), you r supposed to reduce the amount of ammonia by half. Atleast that is what I think I remember. Half of 5 is 2.5ppm (or just 2). Is that what I want the ammonia test to show? Why reduce by half?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33056	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

Bill, 75 miles to transport fish is nothing. The night before you go, and after the wife has gone to bee, put your 100 quart cooler in your trunk. Next day, carry out a smaller cooler, maybe one of those 6 pack sized coolers or slightly larger as you prepare to leave, and throw it in the back seat. This should assure your wife that you are not going to go crazy buying fish. Maybe it will assure her enough to leave your wallet with you! At the very least, you are now prepared to carry the fish from the store to your home no matter how hot or cool it may be on that particular day. When you leave the store, simply pack the fish bags in the cooler, and close the lid. You probably would want to lay the bags on their sides to give the fish the most surface area possible during the trip. I've taken fish from the mid-west to the east coast mid-winter in a similar fashion with no losses. No heat packs either. Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me You're a mind reader!  I would have to hand over the complete wallet including all CC's prior to entering any store where tanks are displayed! She has learned a thing or two since my last days in the hobby!   Lancaster is a possible trip \\Steve// but for fish?  Its about 75 miles away at a heading of S, S. West.  Problem is the mileage with the cold weather soon to be upon us here in PA, that's about 140 miles round trip.  These things you folks use to ship called Hot Packs and a crash course in how to be them would be most welcome, I've never seen them also a few coolers would be in order.  On the tank itself?  Still waiting to hear something, anything from the seller since Tuesday of this week.  Another important consideration is its setup.   We are still working with that calculator link from Len on the use of the baking soda but having trouble coming up to match a smaller quantity of water (PWC for a 4-gallon hex I have), we only do about a gallon or so at a time.  It is going to be buffered with Lime Stone for long-term stability if I can get it into the small filter.  Also it's more than possible that I will use One and Only for the new tanks setup or run in cycle.  I would not make a trip like this for just 3 fish I can assure you.  On the fish themselves here are some of my choices from this link: http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/characin.htm   I think either you or Ray suggested Characins and when I did a Goggle Search this link came up.  It's very useful for all types of fish even though it's from UK. Here my fish choice's:  Cardinal Tetra, Neon Tetra, Glo-Light, Zebra Danio, Ramirezi, and also Agazzizi's Dwarf Cichlid and of course the Bronze Cory/Albino Cory cats.  Some of these I have already.  Finding the Rams and Agazzizi's Dwarf Cichlid may not be so easy and I may have to recruit help here from the Group.   Bill --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 8:44 PM Bill, The _Pelvicachromis pulcher_, or kribensis, I mentioned earlier is and African cichlid, relatively common, and should do well in your water. The African cichlids you are talking about here are more accurately called Rift Lake cichlids, and will do much better in water hard as a rock, and on the base side of the pH scale. The red wag platys you are talking about also prefer a harder more base water than you have and can provide. This may be one reason why they look washed out. However, if you are interested in the livebearer aspect more than the color aspect, there are livebearers that come from softer more acid waters that may be of interest to you. I'd need to research these for you, and then take a guess at availability, but they are out there. I forget which end of PA you are on. How far are you from Lancaster? If not too far, you could take the missus on a road trip to Lancaster to visit That Fish Place to look at the fish they have there. Last time I was there, they had a ton of different rams. You might want to hand over your wallet to the missus before entering, then you can blame her for any overspending there <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:52 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help.   Maybe I am handling this wrong.  Steve's point is very well taken and of course, does make perfect sense.  Since you folks have about a ton and a half more "hands-on" experience than I do, how about this?  Lets jump ahead a little bit and let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don't have yet?  Neon Tetra's, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra's.  That's the fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger tank, they are fine.    The ones I don't have and worrying about getting are the Rams and Red-Wag Platy's.  The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but the Red-Wag Platy's are a complete no show at least around here.  The ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in the body, they almost seem to be some type of variant.  I'm almost positive that someone in the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures of them on Group but I could be wrong.  I have been there so much I could be mistaken.   As you can see, it isn't so much variety, its almost just more of what I have.  An example of others?  Quite a while back I mentioned Black Tetra's, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied the other two, they just stopped eating.  Why he leaves the little tetra's I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good.  As far as Africans Cichlids go, we let them.  I don't think my water conditions could support anything in that line comfortably.  So that's it.  Suggestions?  Letm' ripe!   Thanks to all trying to help,   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33057	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: OT: Air Fish

Those of you who are out of tank space and claim to have no room for more (which merely shows you are not really hooked <g>), might wish to take the hobby in a slightly different direction with an Air Fish or two. http://www.flixxy.com/air-fish-rc-airship.htm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33058	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Question about "browning patches" on fish

Hello Joey, Many thanks for the link to some of the most common fish diseases, albeit, I see nothing here on "Browning Patches" with regards to diseases that would help Dora and fail to see the connection. Other than that, the site could be helpful if one knows where to draw the line in what to believe from it. Unfortunately, the unsuspecting hobbyist would not know what to believe and could lose fish from some of these recommendations if adhering to them. I don't know if this site was put up by a professional fish pathologist or not, but I do see some blatent mistakes that could cause tragedy. As is always the best advice to follow, do not believe all you read on these web pages, as anyone can put up a convincing looking page on the web -- and they may even have 90% of their fact right -- but its that 10% of facts that they may have copied (did they copy them all?) somewhere along the way that could be very detrimental. One needs to take these recomendations with a grain of salt, as they may be far from being gospel. Still, the best reference sources by far are usually authoritative books on the subjects, and then, its always best to have more than one. In going up to the Badman's fish diseases page, I noticed that they referred to Columnaris as a gram-positive bacterium. In their treatments, in addition to several recognized broad-spectrum antibiotics (which obviously should have some impact), it was additionally mentioned to use Marcyn I (Erythromycin) which is primarily a gram-positive antibiotic. This will have little effect on Columnaris and anyone trying to use this medication against this disease will not effect a cure. Best results (below pH 7.5) against columnaris can be had with Tetracycline -- a broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against gram-negative pathogens. A yet puzzling insert on Badman's web-site in the treatment for Columnaris was the alluding of Fish TB being associated with (or the same thing as?) Columnaris, when, in the recommended treatment for Columnaris it went on to say that Fish Tuberculosis is difficult to treat because it attacks intracellularly. I don't understand their advice of this in context with Columnaris treatment, unless they're trying to say they are one and the same (as it seems they are saying). Columnaris is a gram-negative bacterium -- Flexibacteria (Flavibacterium) columnare, and Fish Tuberculosis is a gram-positive Mycobacterium even including the external pathogen found on the skin (there are other Mycobacteria species causing internal TB). While there may be some controversy as to whether Columnaris is a gram-negative or a gram positive bacterium, results I've received from my friend Stan Weitzman (Curator of Fishes, National Museum of Natural History Smithsonian Museum, Washington) when I submitted such fish tissue to him was that this Flexibacteria columnaris is indeed gram-negative -- which may seem like a small detail, but not when you're trying to treat the disease. I would be inclined to believe Dr. Weitzman (who is foremost in his field). I've also picked out a number of other mistakes, but won't go into them at this point, already having taken up some space here. As would be expected though, the more common diseases such as Ich and Velvet have good coverage on this web site, but one can't just use one source where accuracy is needed. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joesbirds@... wrote: > > Here is a good sight with common fish diseases. _Tropical Fish Disease > Identification with pictures and cures._ > (http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_ident ification.html) > > > Joey > > www.pbase.com/joesbirds > **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & > more! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol? redir=htt > p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html? ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33059	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Question about phosphate levels

Okay, no problem Dora, probably understandable when I sometimes try to cram a lot of detail into one paragraph while still trying to make it intelligible. Keep a check on your fish's waste products, first to make sure its passing waste and not constipated, then to see if the waste is possibly abnormal. Long, white, stringy waste is an indication of internal parasites. If you don't see that, there's no need to treat for it, especially if they're all eating like pigs. The medications you've ordered are always good to have on hand, should you ever need them -- and if it turns out you do need them you'll be prepared. Otherwise, make sure to store them in the fridge for longer life (some people store them in the freezer for even longer life, although I can't say if that works or not). With your fish "pigging out" on peas, it wouldn't appear as though there's anything wrong with them if they have that good of an appetite. With that as their meal last night, you should start seeing all of them giving off waste this morning. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Sorry, Ray, I saw the sentence that most things to remove phosphate remove > only inorganic phosphate, but not the sentence about testing for it - and I > thought I looked. > > Thanks for the answer on the brown patches idea. I was starting to wonder > if that guy knows what he's talking about. > > I ordered some stuff to treat parasites; by the time it arrives maybe I'll > have a better idea if the fish ahs them. > > Meanwhile the tank got a good cleaning, which it benefitted from, and the > fish have pigged out on peas and vitamin enriched brine shrimp. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 5:02 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about phosphate levels > > > Dora, You may call me as I sign ("Ray"), thank you. As for your > first question here, why do you repeatedly do this (ask a question > that was already given to you)? If you were to read my detailed > reply to you -- the one that you just replied to -- you would have > seen my statement; "YES, MOST AQUARIUM PHOSPHATE TEST KITS DETECT > ONLY INORGANIC PHOSPHATE" (first sentence, fourth paragraph). I also > went on to say: "THERE ARE PHOSPHATE TEST KITS AVAILABLE FOR FINDING > ORGANIC PHOSPHATE (SUCH AS HACH TESTING CO. -- # PH24), BUT THESE ARE > MORE EXPENSIVE< MEANT MORE FOR PROFESSIONAL LAB USE." > > If I see you ask a question again after I already answered it, it > will be a cold day in H*** before I answer you again. You you think > I'm grumpy to, but your antics are getting OLD! > > As for which one is PO3 and >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33060	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm

I knew that reducing ammonia would have a domino effect on the cycle. That is what confused me. ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:46:42 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm No, you do not reduce the ammonia level in your tank. Each day you want to add enough ammonia to bring the level to 5 ppm. If you reduce the amount of ammonia, you will be reducing the size of the bacterial colonies you are creating, and then they may not be large enough to handle the number/size of the fish you are adding once the cycle has become established, creating, at least, a mini-cycle where the bacteria are playing a game of catch-up with the bio-load in the tank. Once the bacteria can convert the daily load of 5 ppm of ammonia to nitrites, you need to keep the load up so you can create the next colony that will convert the nitrites to nitrates to keep up with the load that is being created. Reducing the ammonia will reduce the load. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:01 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm So higher than 5ppm doesn't kill all the bacteria. I accidentally overdosed to around 9ppm. I read that once you get a nitrite peak (not sure when that is), you r supposed to reduce the amount of ammonia by half. Atleast that is what I think I remember. Half of 5 is 2.5ppm (or just 2). Is that what I want the ammonia test to show? Why reduce by half? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33061	From: Chris	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: After one week all of my fish in the q tank.

All the fish in the q tank appear 100% healthy. I'm seeing no symptoms of disease. No ich. They are very active and have very healthy appetites. Should I continue quarantine, or can I move a couple into my main tank now?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33062	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: After one week all of my fish in the q tank.

I usually quarantine for three weeks, it would take that long for any ich to show up. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] After one week all of my fish in the q tank. All the fish in the q tank appear 100% healthy. I'm seeing no symptoms of disease. No ich. They are very active and have very healthy appetites. Should I continue quarantine, or can I move a couple into my main tank now? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33063	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: After one week all of my fish in the q tank.

Seven days is not long enough in quarantine for new fish. 14 days is better, and 21 days is best. While some disease and parasites will manifest themselves fairly quickly, others take more time to show any symptoms. Let's say that today you are exposed to the flu. Tomorrow you are placed in quarantine because you will be moving into a new 8 bedroom, 12 bath house with indoor swimming pool and an attached greenhouse. A beautifully appointed fish room has been built into the basement. After the first week, you may still be feeling fine s your body is successfully fighting off the infection. However, during the second week, the body is losing the battle, and you get the flu. Now you and the others that were in quarantine with you are treated for the flu, and after 7 to 10 days have beat it. Now, since you were sick, and may have infected others with you, you are given the good news that your quarantine period starts anew. With no more incidents you are cleared to go after about 6 weeks of quarantine. The good news is that you and others in quarantine with you are healthy, and can immediately start to enjoy your new home. The bad news is now your wife is mad at you for getting sick and ruining her arrival at the new home and claims she will never be quarantined with you again! And otherwise makes you life miserable for the next few weeks <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] After one week all of my fish in the q tank. All the fish in the q tank appear 100% healthy. I'm seeing no symptoms of disease. No ich. They are very active and have very healthy appetites. Should I continue quarantine, or can I move a couple into my main tank now?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33064	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

� � Hi \\Steve// � From your message: �Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options.� � Again, I very good idea, but again a shopping problem.� Dolomite or crushed coral very easy to get at a good LPS.� I don�t have a good LPS or any for that matter But Wally-World may have.� The salt-water guys use it a lot and I would use the dolomite in place of sand in my Marine tanks.� It�s just that I have a good bit of Limestone here.� And that�s what I�ll start with until I can find the dolomite. I assume you mentioned this because of its quicker breakdown ability as compared to the limestone? � And also thanks very much for putting my mind at ease about the coolers.� I always would use them in the colder months but I did have concerns about the Heat packs.� One less; thing to worry about now. � Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 3:25 AM Bill, 75 miles to transport fish is nothing. The night before you go, and after the wife has gone to bee, put your 100 quart cooler in your trunk. Next day, carry out a smaller cooler, maybe one of those 6 pack sized coolers or slightly larger as you prepare to leave, and throw it in the back seat. This should assure your wife that you are not going to go crazy buying fish. Maybe it will assure her enough to leave your wallet with you! At the very least, you are now prepared to carry the fish from the store to your home no matter how hot or cool it may be on that particular day. When you leave the store, simply pack the fish bags in the cooler, and close the lid. You probably would want to lay the bags on their sides to give the fish the most surface area possible during the trip. I've taken fish from the mid-west to the east coast mid-winter in a similar fashion with no losses. No heat packs either. Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:05 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me You're a mind reader!� I would have to hand over the complete wallet including all CC's prior to entering any store where tanks are displayed! She has learned a thing or two since my last days in the hobby! � Lancaster is a possible trip \\Steve// but for fish?� Its about 75 miles away at a heading of S, S. West.� Problem is the mileage with the cold weather soon to be upon us here in PA, that's about 140 miles round trip.� These things you folks use to ship called Hot Packs and a crash course in how to be them would be most welcome, I've never seen them also a few coolers would be in order.� On the tank itself?� Still waiting to hear something, anything from the seller since Tuesday of this week.� Another important consideration is its setup. � We are still working with that calculator link from Len on the use of the baking soda but having trouble coming up to match a smaller quantity of water (PWC for a 4-gallon hex I have), we only do about a gallon or so at a time.� It is going to be buffered with Lime Stone for long-term stability if I can get it into the small filter.� Also it's more than possible that I will use One and Only for the new tanks setup or run in cycle.� I would not make a trip like this for just 3 fish I can assure you.� On the fish themselves here are some of my choices from this link: http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ characin. htm � I think either you or Ray suggested Characins and when I did a Goggle Search this link came up.� It's very useful for all types of fish even though it's from UK. Here my fish choice's:� Cardinal Tetra, Neon Tetra, Glo-Light, Zebra Danio, Ramirezi, and also Agazzizi's Dwarf Cichlid and of course the Bronze Cory/Albino Cory cats.� Some of these I have already.� Finding the Rams and Agazzizi's Dwarf Cichlid may not be so easy and I may have to recruit help here from the Group. � Bill --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 8:44 PM Bill, The _Pelvicachromis pulcher_, or kribensis, I mentioned earlier is and African cichlid, relatively common, and should do well in your water. The African cichlids you are talking about here are more accurately called Rift Lake cichlids, and will do much better in water hard as a rock, and on the base side of the pH scale. The red wag platys you are talking about also prefer a harder more base water than you have and can provide. This may be one reason why they look washed out. However, if you are interested in the livebearer aspect more than the color aspect, there are livebearers that come from softer more acid waters that may be of interest to you. I'd need to research these for you, and then take a guess at availability, but they are out there. I forget which end of PA you are on. How far are you from Lancaster? If not too far, you could take the missus on a road trip to Lancaster to visit That Fish Place to look at the fish they have there. Last time I was there, they had a ton of different rams. You might want to hand over your wallet to the missus before entering, then you can blame her for any overspending there <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:52 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help. � Maybe I am handling this wrong.� Steve's point is very well taken and of course, does make perfect sense.� Since you folks have about a ton and a half more "hands-on" experience than I do, how about this?� Lets jump ahead a little bit and let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don't have yet?� Neon Tetra's, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra's.� That's the fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger tank, they are fine.� � The ones I don't have and worrying about getting are the Rams and Red-Wag Platy's.� The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but the Red-Wag Platy's are a complete no show at least around here.� The ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in the body, they almost seem to be some type of variant.� I'm almost positive that someone in the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures of them on Group but I could be wrong.� I have been there so much I could be mistaken. � As you can see, it isn't so much variety, its almost just more of what I have.� An example of others?� Quite a while back I mentioned Black Tetra's, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied the other two, they just stopped eating.� Why he leaves the little tetra's I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good.� As far as Africans Cichlids go, we let them.� I don't think my water conditions could support anything in that line comfortably.� So that's it.� Suggestions?� Letm' ripe! � Thanks to all trying to help, � Bill � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33065	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Air Fish

So... is that a tin-foil barb hybrid? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Air Fish Those of you who are out of tank space and claim to have no room for more (which merely shows you are not really hooked <g>), might wish to take the hobby in a slightly different direction with an Air Fish or two. http://www.flixxy.com/air-fish-rc-airship.htm <http://www.flixxy.com/air-fish-rc-airship.htm> \\Steve// _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 9:33:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33066	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

Hi Bill, For best results with limestone, you might want to bust it up into smaller pieces before putting it in a nylon bag. The greater the surface area exposed, the quicker its breakdown in the water. I'd guess though, that you're just going to place a few pieces of it as found, in your tank as decorative additions and allow it to do its own thing in slowly dissolving, but a bag of some crushed stuff will help speed things along. Be aware that, while dolomite is good for raising your hardness and pH, its breakdown is still slow when compared to crushed coral. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > >   >   > Hi \\Steve// >   > From your message: > "Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options." >   > Again, I very good idea, but again a shopping problem.  Dolomite or crushed coral very easy to get at a good LPS.  I don't have a good LPS or any for that matter But Wally-World may have.  The salt-water guys use it a lot and I would use the dolomite in place of sand in my Marine tanks.  It's just that I have a good bit of Limestone here.  And that's what I'll start with until I can find the dolomite. > I assume you mentioned this because of its quicker breakdown ability as compared to the limestone? >   > And also thanks very much for putting my mind at ease about the coolers.  I always would use them in the colder months but I did have concerns about the Heat packs.  One less; thing to worry about now. >   > Bill > > --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 3:25 AM > > > > > > > Bill, > > 75 miles to transport fish is nothing. The night before you go, and after the wife has gone to bee, put your 100 quart cooler in your trunk. Next day, carry out a smaller cooler, maybe one of those 6 pack sized coolers or slightly larger as you prepare to leave, and throw it in the back seat. This should assure your wife that you are not going to go crazy buying fish. Maybe it will assure her enough to leave your wallet with you! At the very least, you are now prepared to carry the fish from the store to your home no matter how hot or cool it may be on that particular day. When you leave the store, simply pack the fish bags in the cooler, and close the lid. You probably would want to lay the bags on their sides to give the fish the most surface area possible during the trip. > > I've taken fish from the mid-west to the east coast mid-winter in a similar fashion with no losses. No heat packs either. > > Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me > > You're a mind reader!  I would have to hand over the complete wallet including all CC's prior to entering any store where tanks are displayed! > She has learned a thing or two since my last days in the hobby! >   > Lancaster is a possible trip \\Steve// but for fish?  Its about 75 miles away > at a heading of S, S. West.  Problem is the mileage with the cold weather soon > to be upon us here in PA, that's about 140 miles round trip.  These things you folks use to ship called Hot Packs and a crash course in how to be them would be most welcome, I've never seen them also a few coolers would be in order.  On the tank itself?  Still waiting to hear something, anything from the seller since Tuesday of this week.  Another important consideration is its setup. >   > We are still working with that calculator link from Len on the use of the baking soda but having trouble coming up to match a smaller quantity of water (PWC for a 4-gallon hex I have), we only do about a gallon or so at a time.  It is going to be buffered with Lime Stone for long-term stability if I can get it into the small filter.  Also it's more than possible that I will use One and Only for the new tanks setup or run in cycle.  I would not make a trip like this for just 3 fish I can assure you.  On the fish themselves here are some of my choices from this link: http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ characin. htm >   > I think either you or Ray suggested Characins and when I did a Goggle Search this link came up.  It's very useful for all types of fish even though it's from UK. > Here my fish choice's:  Cardinal Tetra, Neon Tetra, Glo-Light, Zebra Danio, Ramirezi, and also Agazzizi's Dwarf Cichlid and of course the Bronze Cory/Albino Cory cats.  Some of these I have already.  Finding the Rams and Agazzizi's Dwarf Cichlid may not be so easy and I may have to recruit help here from the Group. >   > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 8:44 PM > > Bill, > > The _Pelvicachromis pulcher_, or kribensis, I mentioned earlier is and African cichlid, relatively common, and should do well in your water. The African cichlids you are talking about here are more accurately called Rift Lake cichlids, and will do much better in water hard as a rock, and on the base side of the pH scale. The red wag platys you are talking about also prefer a harder more base water than you have and can provide. This may be one reason why they look washed out. However, if you are interested in the livebearer aspect more than the color aspect, there are livebearers that come from softer more acid waters that may be of interest to you. I'd need to research these for you, and then take a guess at availability, but they are out there. > > I forget which end of PA you are on. How far are you from Lancaster? If not too far, you could take the missus on a road trip to Lancaster to visit That Fish Place to look at the fish they have there. Last time I was there, they had a ton of different rams. You might want to hand over your wallet to the missus before entering, then you can blame her for any overspending there <g>. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:52 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me > > Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help. >   > Maybe I am handling this wrong.  Steve's point is very well taken and of course, > does make perfect sense.  Since you folks have about a ton and a half more > "hands-on" experience than I do, how about this?  Lets jump ahead a little bit and > let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don't have yet?  Neon Tetra's, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra's.  That's the fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger tank, they are fine.  >   > The ones I don't have and worrying about getting are the Rams and Red-Wag Platy's.  The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but the Red-Wag Platy's are a complete no show at least around here.  The ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in the body, they almost seem > to be some type of variant.  I'm almost positive that someone in the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures of them on Group but I could be wrong.  I have been there so much I could be mistaken. >   > As you can see, it isn't so much variety, its almost just more of what I have.  An example of others?  Quite a while back I mentioned Black Tetra's, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied the other two, they just stopped eating.  Why he leaves the little tetra's I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good.  As far as Africans Cichlids go, we let them.  I don't think my water conditions could support anything in that line comfortably.  So that's it.  Suggestions?  Letm' ripe! >   > Thanks to all trying to help, >   > Bill >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33067	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: What Is It?

Good Morning, � I am working with a Test Kit from Tetra the �Laborett� (don�t laugh, its all I could find)!� Anyway inside the kit the test for Ammonia in bottle #1, a strange crystallized substance has formed around the threading of the bottle at its neck.� Is this stuff dangerous?� Toxic?� The rest of the test bottles are fine.. �Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33068	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

I mentioned the other substances since they had not been brought up in the previous conversation on this topic, or, if they had, I did not recall that they had. I was in a WalMart once. Never been back. The place was filthy. However, I am sure that they would carry dolomite. Probably under the name of kitty litter. You would need to do some checking to ensure you get a dolomite based litter that is not scented, and is not clumping, just plain old dolomite, \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 10:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me     Hi \\Steve//   From your message: "Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options."   Again, I very good idea, but again a shopping problem.  Dolomite or crushed coral very easy to get at a good LPS.  I don't have a good LPS or any for that matter But Wally-World may have.  The salt-water guys use it a lot and I would use the dolomite in place of sand in my Marine tanks.  It's just that I have a good bit of Limestone here.  And that's what I'll start with until I can find the dolomite. I assume you mentioned this because of its quicker breakdown ability as compared to the limestone?   And also thanks very much for putting my mind at ease about the coolers.  I always would use them in the colder months but I did have concerns about the Heat packs.  One less; thing to worry about now.   Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 3:25 AM Bill, 75 miles to transport fish is nothing. The night before you go, and after the wife has gone to bee, put your 100 quart cooler in your trunk. Next day, carry out a smaller cooler, maybe one of those 6 pack sized coolers or slightly larger as you prepare to leave, and throw it in the back seat. This should assure your wife that you are not going to go crazy buying fish. Maybe it will assure her enough to leave your wallet with you! At the very least, you are now prepared to carry the fish from the store to your home no matter how hot or cool it may be on that particular day. When you leave the store, simply pack the fish bags in the cooler, and close the lid. You probably would want to lay the bags on their sides to give the fish the most surface area possible during the trip. I've taken fish from the mid-west to the east coast mid-winter in a similar fashion with no losses. No heat packs either. Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:05 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me You're a mind reader!  I would have to hand over the complete wallet including all CC's prior to entering any store where tanks are displayed! She has learned a thing or two since my last days in the hobby!   Lancaster is a possible trip \\Steve// but for fish?  Its about 75 miles away at a heading of S, S. West.  Problem is the mileage with the cold weather soon to be upon us here in PA, that's about 140 miles round trip.  These things you folks use to ship called Hot Packs and a crash course in how to be them would be most welcome, I've never seen them also a few coolers would be in order.  On the tank itself?  Still waiting to hear something, anything from the seller since Tuesday of this week.  Another important consideration is its setup.   We are still working with that calculator link from Len on the use of the baking soda but having trouble coming up to match a smaller quantity of water (PWC for a 4-gallon hex I have), we only do about a gallon or so at a time.  It is going to be buffered with Lime Stone for long-term stability if I can get it into the small filter.  Also it's more than possible that I will use One and Only for the new tanks setup or run in cycle.  I would not make a trip like this for just 3 fish I can assure you.  On the fish themselves here are some of my choices from this link: http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ characin. htm   I think either you or Ray suggested Characins and when I did a Goggle Search this link came up.  It's very useful for all types of fish even though it's from UK. Here my fish choice's:  Cardinal Tetra, Neon Tetra, Glo-Light, Zebra Danio, Ramirezi, and also Agazzizi's Dwarf Cichlid and of course the Bronze Cory/Albino Cory cats.  Some of these I have already.  Finding the Rams and Agazzizi's Dwarf Cichlid may not be so easy and I may have to recruit help here from the Group.   Bill --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 8:44 PM Bill, The _Pelvicachromis pulcher_, or kribensis, I mentioned earlier is and African cichlid, relatively common, and should do well in your water. The African cichlids you are talking about here are more accurately called Rift Lake cichlids, and will do much better in water hard as a rock, and on the base side of the pH scale. The red wag platys you are talking about also prefer a harder more base water than you have and can provide. This may be one reason why they look washed out. However, if you are interested in the livebearer aspect more than the color aspect, there are livebearers that come from softer more acid waters that may be of interest to you. I'd need to research these for you, and then take a guess at availability, but they are out there. I forget which end of PA you are on. How far are you from Lancaster? If not too far, you could take the missus on a road trip to Lancaster to visit That Fish Place to look at the fish they have there. Last time I was there, they had a ton of different rams. You might want to hand over your wallet to the missus before entering, then you can blame her for any overspending there <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:52 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help.   Maybe I am handling this wrong.  Steve's point is very well taken and of course, does make perfect sense.  Since you folks have about a ton and a half more "hands-on" experience than I do, how about this?  Lets jump ahead a little bit and let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don't have yet?  Neon Tetra's, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra's.  That's the fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger tank, they are fine.    The ones I don't have and worrying about getting are the Rams and Red-Wag Platy's.  The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but the Red-Wag Platy's are a complete no show at least around here.  The ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in the body, they almost seem to be some type of variant.  I'm almost positive that someone in the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures of them on Group but I could be wrong.  I have been there so much I could be mistaken.   As you can see, it isn't so much variety, its almost just more of what I have.  An example of others?  Quite a while back I mentioned Black Tetra's, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied the other two, they just stopped eating.  Why he leaves the little tetra's I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good.  As far as Africans Cichlids go, we let them.  I don't think my water conditions could support anything in that line comfortably.  So that's it.  Suggestions?  Letm' ripe!   Thanks to all trying to help,   Bill   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33069	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Air Fish

Lenny, I think it may be a mylar tetra. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 10:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Air Fish So... is that a tin-foil barb hybrid? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Air Fish Those of you who are out of tank space and claim to have no room for more (which merely shows you are not really hooked <g>), might wish to take the hobby in a slightly different direction with an Air Fish or two. http://www.flixxy.com/air-fish-rc-airship.htm <http://www.flixxy.com/air-fish-rc-airship.htm> \\Steve// _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 9:33:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33070	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?

Sounds like the crystallization of the reagent. Most reagents are toxic to one extent or another. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 10:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Good Morning,   I am working with a Test Kit from Tetra the "Laborett" (don't laugh, its all I could find)!  Anyway inside the kit the test for Ammonia in bottle #1, a strange crystallized substance has formed around the threading of the bottle at its neck.  Is this stuff dangerous?  Toxic?  The rest of the test bottles are fine..  Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33071	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Question about "browning patches" on fish

Ray, I think that Badman's site may have made some "typo's" in transferring and/or reformatting the information from Pandora's site to his site.. well not so much a typo but rather when reformatting the info, did not separate it properly. I posted a follow-up thread to Joey's showing Pandora's original site http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html or TinyURL - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee and on that site she has... under the general heading of "Bacterial External Infections" and mentions in "general" that "Gram positive" bacteria are "exceedingly rare in FW fish.... but most do not attack skin..." and then more specifically mentions "Gram negative: Flexibacter columnaris...". below this paragraph is a copy/paste of the info on her site. I just looked at Badman's copy of her page and I see where he kind of lumped it all together but if you read it all in context, it says the same thing. Certainly, a single long webpage is not going to replace multiple books but for the average hobbyist with one or two tanks and just starting out, they do not have access to the many books you have collected over the years... nor will most people buy these books any longer since there are now websites and forums for getting free help. It's a new world out there now. Ask any former door-to-door encyclopedia salesmen. LOL (START SNIP from Pandora's site) Bacterial External Infections Columnaris (specific to F. columnaris); Often Misnamed "Mouth Fungus", Fish Tuberculosis/TB Skin Infection (specific to Mycobacterium spp.) Various organisms. Positive diagnosis not possible outside of lab culture & microscopy (not practical for most hobbyists). Gram positive: exceedingly rare in FW fish; small handful of SW species, but most primarily do not attack skin. Gram negative: Flexibacter columnaris, Aeromonas spp., Pseudomonas spp., Vibrio spp., Salmonella spp., many others not listed. Non-stainable: Mycobacterium spp., mostly M. piscium & M. marinum NOTES - Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish especially susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by Dr. Barb . Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that causes human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. Barb (link in website) discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank with suspect animals. (END SNIP) This category was not just limited to Columnaris but rather to ALL external bacterial infections and prefaced with "Positive diagnosis not possible outside of lab culture..." so without a positive diagnosis, she was recommending a broad spectrum treatment that included Maracyn 1 & 2 (not just 1). Further, her notes mention that for F. columnaris, read this article by Dr. Barb - http://www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm which states among other things.. it's a long article... that "... Flexibacter is a thin gram-negative rod bacterium..." As far as the mention of "Fish TB" it specifically says this... "...Often Misnamed "Mouth Fungus", Fish Tuberculosis/TB Skin Infection.." the key word being "Misnamed". You may be glancing over the info and/or inadvertently taking snips out of context. Are you a political speech-writer? Is Ayer's "just a guy in your neighborhood"? LOL Anyhow.. all that said, Pandora's webpage is not an end-all of information but rather a very good starting point to help folks self-diagnose their fish and gives them a starting point for what to do more research on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish Hello Joey, Many thanks for the link to some of the most common fish diseases, albeit, I see nothing here on "Browning Patches" with regards to diseases that would help Dora and fail to see the connection. Other than that, the site could be helpful if one knows where to draw the line in what to believe from it. Unfortunately, the unsuspecting hobbyist would not know what to believe and could lose fish from some of these recommendations if adhering to them. I don't know if this site was put up by a professional fish pathologist or not, but I do see some blatent mistakes that could cause tragedy. As is always the best advice to follow, do not believe all you read on these web pages, as anyone can put up a convincing looking page on the web -- and they may even have 90% of their fact right -- but its that 10% of facts that they may have copied (did they copy them all?) somewhere along the way that could be very detrimental. One needs to take these recomendations with a grain of salt, as they may be far from being gospel. Still, the best reference sources by far are usually authoritative books on the subjects, and then, its always best to have more than one. In going up to the Badman's fish diseases page, I noticed that they referred to Columnaris as a gram-positive bacterium. In their treatments, in addition to several recognized broad-spectrum antibiotics (which obviously should have some impact), it was additionally mentioned to use Marcyn I (Erythromycin) which is primarily a gram-positive antibiotic. This will have little effect on Columnaris and anyone trying to use this medication against this disease will not effect a cure. Best results (below pH 7.5) against columnaris can be had with Tetracycline -- a broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against gram-negative pathogens. A yet puzzling insert on Badman's web-site in the treatment for Columnaris was the alluding of Fish TB being associated with (or the same thing as?) Columnaris, when, in the recommended treatment for Columnaris it went on to say that Fish Tuberculosis is difficult to treat because it attacks intracellularly. I don't understand their advice of this in context with Columnaris treatment, unless they're trying to say they are one and the same (as it seems they are saying). Columnaris is a gram-negative bacterium -- Flexibacteria (Flavibacterium) columnare, and Fish Tuberculosis is a gram-positive Mycobacterium even including the external pathogen found on the skin (there are other Mycobacteria species causing internal TB). While there may be some controversy as to whether Columnaris is a gram-negative or a gram positive bacterium, results I've received from my friend Stan Weitzman (Curator of Fishes, National Museum of Natural History Smithsonian Museum, Washington) when I submitted such fish tissue to him was that this Flexibacteria columnaris is indeed gram-negative -- which may seem like a small detail, but not when you're trying to treat the disease. I would be inclined to believe Dr. Weitzman (who is foremost in his field). I've also picked out a number of other mistakes, but won't go into them at this point, already having taken up some space here. As would be expected though, the more common diseases such as Ich and Velvet have good coverage on this web site, but one can't just use one source where accuracy is needed. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , joesbirds@... wrote: > > Here is a good sight with common fish diseases. _Tropical Fish Disease > Identification with pictures and cures._ > (http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_ident <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_ident> ification.html) > > > Joey > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 10:20:19 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33072	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?

Believe it or not... Walmart.com is one of the best places to start for this kind of info. At the bottom of their main page, is a link to MSDS http://msds.walmartstores.com/applications/Default.aspx and they have copies of the MSDS' for most of the products they sell. I went there, did a search for Tetratest.. no hits.. then just Tetra and got a list which included Ammonia Bottle 1 and all the other Tetra Test bottles as well. Here's the .pdf for Ammonia Bottle 1. http://msds.walmartstores.com/cache/12473.pdf Which says... "... Dangerous components: 1310-58-3 Potassium Hydroxide 0.3%..." and further down on the document in section 4 you can read about "First Aid" but it doesn't seem to be bad stuff and does not generally irritate the skin at this concentration of only 0.3%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Good Morning, I am working with a Test Kit from Tetra the "Laborett" (don't laugh, its all I could find)! Anyway inside the kit the test for Ammonia in bottle #1, a strange crystallized substance has formed around the threading of the bottle at its neck. Is this stuff dangerous? Toxic? The rest of the test bottles are fine.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 10:43:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33073	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

Good Morning Ray, � My primary concern here is stabilization of some sort.� Although it looks as though� I�ll be doctoring water forever with baking soda, it�s a very small price to pay.� Since beginning, a ph of 5.5 or worse, that�s as low as the test would read, we are now at 6.8.� The test shows just a slight trace of blue/green coloring so I�m guessing I�m very close to neutral.� (still dreamin� about those Platy�s).� Fish are fine and this was done over a time-line of about 5 weeks. � As you and others have said I�m looking long term now and for something that will prevent the spikes up or down on Ph.� From your message I am concluding that the crushed coral would be the very best buffer?� Correct? � Also, as I think you�ll remember, I am working with a very small tank here, 4-gallon hex, and probably not even that much if you factor in the gravel on its bottom.� You surely understand that it is very difficult to hold any type of water parameters with only this small amount.� Still, with constant vigilance I am hoping to be successful, of course I�m also hoping for a bit of help from the Great Above, which never hurts either.� My feelings are if I can hold tight here, then I should be fine with a 30 gallon tank. � Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 10:42 AM Hi Bill, For best results with limestone, you might want to bust it up into smaller pieces before putting it in a nylon bag. The greater the surface area exposed, the quicker its breakdown in the water. I'd guess though, that you're just going to place a few pieces of it as found, in your tank as decorative additions and allow it to do its own thing in slowly dissolving, but a bag of some crushed stuff will help speed things along. Be aware that, while dolomite is good for raising your hardness and pH, its breakdown is still slow when compared to crushed coral. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > � > � > Hi \\Steve// > � > From your message: > "Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options." > � > Again, I very good idea, but again a shopping problem.� Dolomite or crushed coral very easy to get at a good LPS.� I don't have a good LPS or any for that matter But Wally-World may have.� The salt-water guys use it a lot and I would use the dolomite in place of sand in my Marine tanks.� It's just that I have a good bit of Limestone here.� And that's what I'll start with until I can find the dolomite. > I assume you mentioned this because of its quicker breakdown ability as compared to the limestone? > � > And also thanks very much for putting my mind at ease about the coolers.� I always would use them in the colder months but I did have concerns about the Heat packs.� One less; thing to worry about now. > � > Bill > > --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 3:25 AM > > > > > > > Bill, > > 75 miles to transport fish is nothing. The night before you go, and after the wife has gone to bee, put your 100 quart cooler in your trunk. Next day, carry out a smaller cooler, maybe one of those 6 pack sized coolers or slightly larger as you prepare to leave, and throw it in the back seat. This should assure your wife that you are not going to go crazy buying fish. Maybe it will assure her enough to leave your wallet with you! At the very least, you are now prepared to carry the fish from the store to your home no matter how hot or cool it may be on that particular day. When you leave the store, simply pack the fish bags in the cooler, and close the lid. You probably would want to lay the bags on their sides to give the fish the most surface area possible during the trip. > > I've taken fish from the mid-west to the east coast mid-winter in a similar fashion with no losses. No heat packs either. > > Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me > > You're a mind reader!� I would have to hand over the complete wallet including all CC's prior to entering any store where tanks are displayed! > She has learned a thing or two since my last days in the hobby! > � > Lancaster is a possible trip \\Steve// but for fish?� Its about 75 miles away > at a heading of S, S. West.� Problem is the mileage with the cold weather soon > to be upon us here in PA, that's about 140 miles round trip.� These things you folks use to ship called Hot Packs and a crash course in how to be them would be most welcome, I've never seen them also a few coolers would be in order.� On the tank itself?� Still waiting to hear something, anything from the seller since Tuesday of this week.� Another important consideration is its setup. > � > We are still working with that calculator link from Len on the use of the baking soda but having trouble coming up to match a smaller quantity of water (PWC for a 4-gallon hex I have), we only do about a gallon or so at a time.� It is going to be buffered with Lime Stone for long-term stability if I can get it into the small filter.� Also it's more than possible that I will use One and Only for the new tanks setup or run in cycle.� I would not make a trip like this for just 3 fish I can assure you.� On the fish themselves here are some of my choices from this link: http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ characin. htm > � > I think either you or Ray suggested Characins and when I did a Goggle Search this link came up.� It's very useful for all types of fish even though it's from UK. > Here my fish choice's:� Cardinal Tetra, Neon Tetra, Glo-Light, Zebra Danio, Ramirezi, and also Agazzizi's Dwarf Cichlid and of course the Bronze Cory/Albino Cory cats.� Some of these I have already.� Finding the Rams and Agazzizi's Dwarf Cichlid may not be so easy and I may have to recruit help here from the Group. > � > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 8:44 PM > > Bill, > > The _Pelvicachromis pulcher_, or kribensis, I mentioned earlier is and African cichlid, relatively common, and should do well in your water. The African cichlids you are talking about here are more accurately called Rift Lake cichlids, and will do much better in water hard as a rock, and on the base side of the pH scale. The red wag platys you are talking about also prefer a harder more base water than you have and can provide. This may be one reason why they look washed out. However, if you are interested in the livebearer aspect more than the color aspect, there are livebearers that come from softer more acid waters that may be of interest to you. I'd need to research these for you, and then take a guess at availability, but they are out there. > > I forget which end of PA you are on. How far are you from Lancaster? If not too far, you could take the missus on a road trip to Lancaster to visit That Fish Place to look at the fish they have there. Last time I was there, they had a ton of different rams. You might want to hand over your wallet to the missus before entering, then you can blame her for any overspending there <g>. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:52 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me > > Hi \\Steve// and everyone trying to help. > � > Maybe I am handling this wrong.� Steve's point is very well taken and of course, > does make perfect sense.� Since you folks have about a ton and a half more > "hands-on" experience than I do, how about this?� Lets jump ahead a little bit and > let me ask you about the fish I WANT TO KEEP that I don't have yet?� Neon Tetra's, Albino Cory Cats, Glo-Light Tetra's.� That's the fish we already have now, and would like to get more with a bigger tank, they are fine.� > � > The ones I don't have and worrying about getting are the Rams and Red-Wag Platy's.� The Rams may be do-able by mail at some point but the Red-Wag Platy's are a complete no show at least around here.� The ones available are washed out in color and lack that deep rich red in the body, they almost seem > to be some type of variant.� I'm almost positive that someone in the group is keeping them because I thought I saw some great pictures of them on Group but I could be wrong.� I have been there so much I could be mistaken. > � > As you can see, it isn't so much variety, its almost just more of what I have.� An example of others?� Quite a while back I mentioned Black Tetra's, I had 3, 2 died because one became so large he bullied the other two, they just stopped eating.� Why he leaves the little tetra's I have now alone is a mystery but so far, so good.� As far as Africans Cichlids go, we let them.� I don't think my water conditions could support anything in that line comfortably.� So that's it.� Suggestions?� Letm' ripe! > � > Thanks to all trying to help, > � > Bill > � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33074	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: about peas and Gold fish

Wow - thanks. They are all pretty similar recipes, some of the ingredients may be difficult to find and it seems like you make quite a big batch of goop, but it sounds like the fish will love it. I'm going shopping! Barbara In a message dated 11/14/2008 7:22:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: There are dozens, if not hundreds of DIY foods and recipe's for DIY gel-foods and yes, many of them use the plain gelatin as a base, but here are a few I have in my favorites folder. http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4468/recipes.html http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/Food.html (and lots of other food info) And a medicated gel-food if needed... http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedGelFood.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33075	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?

Thanks Lenny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! � That�s a bit of a load off!� I was just about to reach for the rubber surgical gloves! � On fish food?� Reading along here about those recipes for the gold fish folks? It seems nobody asked the obvious here???� What does Lenny use? � Also since we�re in the kitchen anyway, how about a good, if not great, home-mader for Tetra�s, Cory cats and the rest of the gang that I have here? � Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:43 AM Believe it or not... Walmart.com is one of the best places to start for this kind of info. At the bottom of their main page, is a link to MSDS http://msds. walmartstores. com/applications /Default. aspx and they have copies of the MSDS' for most of the products they sell. I went there, did a search for Tetratest.. no hits.. then just Tetra and got a list which included Ammonia Bottle 1 and all the other Tetra Test bottles as well. Here's the ..pdf for Ammonia Bottle 1. http://msds. walmartstores. com/cache/ 12473.pdf Which says... "... Dangerous components: 1310-58-3 Potassium Hydroxide 0.3%..." and further down on the document in section 4 you can read about "First Aid" but it doesn't seem to be bad stuff and does not generally irritate the skin at this concentration of only 0.3%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Good Morning, I am working with a Test Kit from Tetra the "Laborett" (don't laugh, its all I could find)! Anyway inside the kit the test for Ammonia in bottle #1, a strange crystallized substance has formed around the threading of the bottle at its neck. Is this stuff dangerous? Toxic? The rest of the test bottles are fine.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 10:43:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?

The goldfish gel-food will work for most omnivores. I haven't compared the ingredients on all of the recipe's in a while but the batch that I'm still feeding to my goldfish was kind of a compilation of the recipe's and also throwing in some leftover fish foods that I had that weren't very good for the fish on their own but were an additional filler in the gel-food. I'm not gourmet cook so my first batch did not gel properly so I had to squeeze all of the goop out of the 10 zip loc bags, back into a pot and add a second pack of cooked plain gelatin to the mix and then refill all my zip-loc bags. It worked the second time. I'm not sure there are many recipes specifically for small fish since even the batches made for goldfish will last quite a while. Remember, an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish and a 1" goldfish is probably equal to 10 1" tetras so that is why you don't see recipe's for smaller fish on the net. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Thanks Lenny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That’s a bit of a load off! I was just about to reach for the rubber surgical gloves! On fish food? Reading along here about those recipes for the gold fish folks? It seems nobody asked the obvious here??? What does Lenny use? Also since we’re in the kitchen anyway, how about a good, if not great, home-mader for Tetra’s, Cory cats and the rest of the gang that I have here? Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:43 AM Believe it or not... Walmart.com is one of the best places to start for this kind of info. At the bottom of their main page, is a link to MSDS http://msds. walmartstores. com/applications /Default. aspx and they have copies of the MSDS' for most of the products they sell. I went there, did a search for Tetratest.. no hits.. then just Tetra and got a list which included Ammonia Bottle 1 and all the other Tetra Test bottles as well. Here's the ..pdf for Ammonia Bottle 1. http://msds. walmartstores. com/cache/ 12473.pdf Which says... "... Dangerous components: 1310-58-3 Potassium Hydroxide 0.3%..." and further down on the document in section 4 you can read about "First Aid" but it doesn't seem to be bad stuff and does not generally irritate the skin at this concentration of only 0.3%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Good Morning, I am working with a Test Kit from Tetra the "Laborett" (don't laugh, its all I could find)! Anyway inside the kit the test for Ammonia in bottle #1, a strange crystallized substance has formed around the threading of the bottle at its neck. Is this stuff dangerous? Toxic? The rest of the test bottles are fine.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 10:43:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 11:17:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 11:30:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33077	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: A Yahoo Mail Warning

Heads Up Folks! � If you are writing into the group or one of its (Wise Men---a compliment!� Not a joke)) and you don�t receive an answer back in a reasonable length of time, don�t get upset with them. � CHECK YOU SPAM FOLDERS!!!!!!! � For some reason that I can�t figure out I just found one old message from Lenny and two from Ray in there.� Why they started going into Spam I don�t know but if you hit that delete or empty button, you may have just losted some answers to your questions. � Although the instructions from Yahoo are a bit vague here I would suggest, if you find messages in there that should be in your �In Box�, check or click on them and in the small box heading click move to �In Box�.� Hopefully next time they sent a reply, Yahoo will put your mail in its rightful place. � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33078	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?

Could the reason also be that for these little mouths, anything else will go flying all over the tank and be more work for the gravel washer? � While we are on that subject, remember the pictures that I posted?� Looking at those, what size washer (siphon hose) connected to the tube would do the best job?� This stuff is not exactly like the smaller 1/8" gravel most use but rather around 1/4 or more. � Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 12:30 PM The goldfish gel-food will work for most omnivores. I haven't compared the ingredients on all of the recipe's in a while but the batch that I'm still feeding to my goldfish was kind of a compilation of the recipe's and also throwing in some leftover fish foods that I had that weren't very good for the fish on their own but were an additional filler in the gel-food. I'm not gourmet cook so my first batch did not gel properly so I had to squeeze all of the goop out of the 10 zip loc bags, back into a pot and add a second pack of cooked plain gelatin to the mix and then refill all my zip-loc bags. It worked the second time. I'm not sure there are many recipes specifically for small fish since even the batches made for goldfish will last quite a while. Remember, an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish and a 1" goldfish is probably equal to 10 1" tetras so that is why you don't see recipe's for smaller fish on the net. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Thanks Lenny!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !! That�s a bit of a load off! I was just about to reach for the rubber surgical gloves! On fish food? Reading along here about those recipes for the gold fish folks? It seems nobody asked the obvious here??? What does Lenny use? Also since we�re in the kitchen anyway, how about a good, if not great, home-mader for Tetra�s, Cory cats and the rest of the gang that I have here? Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:43 AM Believe it or not... Walmart.com is one of the best places to start for this kind of info. At the bottom of their main page, is a link to MSDS http://msds. walmartstores. com/applications /Default. aspx and they have copies of the MSDS' for most of the products they sell. I went there, did a search for Tetratest.. no hits.. then just Tetra and got a list which included Ammonia Bottle 1 and all the other Tetra Test bottles as well. Here's the ..pdf for Ammonia Bottle 1. http://msds. walmartstores. com/cache/ 12473.pdf Which says... "... Dangerous components: 1310-58-3 Potassium Hydroxide 0.3%..." and further down on the document in section 4 you can read about "First Aid" but it doesn't seem to be bad stuff and does not generally irritate the skin at this concentration of only 0.3%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Good Morning, I am working with a Test Kit from Tetra the "Laborett" (don't laugh, its all I could find)! Anyway inside the kit the test for Ammonia in bottle #1, a strange crystallized substance has formed around the threading of the bottle at its neck. Is this stuff dangerous? Toxic? The rest of the test bottles are fine.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 10:43:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 11:17:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 11:30:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning

Bill, There should be a "Not Spam" button to click on the message. Just moving it to your inbox will not let your spam settings know that the email addy is OK. Or better yet, quit using Yahoo Mail. I find that their spam filters do not work very well. I only have one Yahoo Mail account that I still keep active and 95% of the mail I get in my inbox is obvious spam with the V or C words or other obvious spams like fake watches, etc., in the subject line and body of the email... yet Yahoo spam filters still let them through to my inbox. I'd go with Gmail over Yahoo or Hotmail any day! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning Heads Up Folks! If you are writing into the group or one of its (Wise Men---a compliment! Not a joke)) and you don't receive an answer back in a reasonable length of time, don't get upset with them. CHECK YOU SPAM FOLDERS!!!!!!! For some reason that I can't figure out I just found one old message from Lenny and two from Ray in there. Why they started going into Spam I don't know but if you hit that delete or empty button, you may have just losted some answers to your questions. Although the instructions from Yahoo are a bit vague here I would suggest, if you find messages in there that should be in your "In Box", check or click on them and in the small box heading click move to "In Box". Hopefully next time they sent a reply, Yahoo will put your mail in its rightful place. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 12:47:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33080	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?

That's the purpose of making it gelatin based.. so it doesn't break down in the water so much. The gravel vacuums are really meant to be based on tank size, not gravel size. You don't want too big that it sucks up 25% of your water before you can vacuum the gravel but you don't want it too small that it takes you forever to vacuum the bottom of a bigger tank. I use my Python on all of my tanks and just adjust the water flow on the sink to slow down the suction on the 10G tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Could the reason also be that for these little mouths, anything else will go flying all over the tank and be more work for the gravel washer? While we are on that subject, remember the pictures that I posted? Looking at those, what size washer (siphon hose) connected to the tube would do the best job? This stuff is not exactly like the smaller 1/8" gravel most use but rather around 1/4 or more. Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 12:30 PM The goldfish gel-food will work for most omnivores. I haven't compared the ingredients on all of the recipe's in a while but the batch that I'm still feeding to my goldfish was kind of a compilation of the recipe's and also throwing in some leftover fish foods that I had that weren't very good for the fish on their own but were an additional filler in the gel-food. I'm not gourmet cook so my first batch did not gel properly so I had to squeeze all of the goop out of the 10 zip loc bags, back into a pot and add a second pack of cooked plain gelatin to the mix and then refill all my zip-loc bags. It worked the second time. I'm not sure there are many recipes specifically for small fish since even the batches made for goldfish will last quite a while. Remember, an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish and a 1" goldfish is probably equal to 10 1" tetras so that is why you don't see recipe's for smaller fish on the net. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Thanks Lenny!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !! That's a bit of a load off! I was just about to reach for the rubber surgical gloves! On fish food? Reading along here about those recipes for the gold fish folks? It seems nobody asked the obvious here??? What does Lenny use? Also since we're in the kitchen anyway, how about a good, if not great, home-mader for Tetra's, Cory cats and the rest of the gang that I have here? Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:43 AM Believe it or not... Walmart.com is one of the best places to start for this kind of info. At the bottom of their main page, is a link to MSDS http://msds. walmartstores. com/applications /Default. aspx and they have copies of the MSDS' for most of the products they sell. I went there, did a search for Tetratest.. no hits.. then just Tetra and got a list which included Ammonia Bottle 1 and all the other Tetra Test bottles as well. Here's the ..pdf for Ammonia Bottle 1. http://msds. walmartstores. com/cache/ 12473.pdf Which says... "... Dangerous components: 1310-58-3 Potassium Hydroxide 0.3%..." and further down on the document in section 4 you can read about "First Aid" but it doesn't seem to be bad stuff and does not generally irritate the skin at this concentration of only 0.3%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Good Morning, I am working with a Test Kit from Tetra the "Laborett" (don't laugh, its all I could find)! Anyway inside the kit the test for Ammonia in bottle #1, a strange crystallized substance has formed around the threading of the bottle at its neck. Is this stuff dangerous? Toxic? The rest of the test bottles are fine.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 12:51:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33081	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning

Yahoo! regularly appears on various block lists for spam, some widely used in the e-mail industry. Your ISP may be blocking mails from various Yahoo! IP addresses (and they have many) to prevent spam from entering their networks. If you are using a more recent version of Outlook, and have Junk E-mail filtering turned on, that may be filtering out various Yahoo! messages, though I have never been able to figure out their logic. Various third party programs may filter out Yahoo! messages for their own reasons, etc. I just took a look at my mail server, and I see that IMF has given me 1179 messages over the last 13 days to check (messages are scored, and all those under a certain score are passed through, while those between certain higher scores are quarantined, and mail with scores even higher are simply placed in oblivion) and none were from Yahoo!, but I think I've got most of their servers listed to allow through. FWIW, I got 11 pieces of spam in my mailbox over the last 13 days, nearly all of them from one ISP where I have a POP account. When you are filtering for spam, you walk a pretty fine line between false positives (mail that is not spam, but may appear to be) and spam, so you need to set your filters to allow a certain portion of what is likely to be spam through so you do not miss any ham (good e-mail). My last line of defense, an add-on to Outlook, places this into one of two folders--Junk and Junk Maybe (names are my own). With this, I can also remove mail that is not really spam, but that I do not want to be bothered with most of the time, so that when I look at my Inbox, they do not add to the total number of new messages, and running at about 200 messages a day, this is very important to me. For those messages that are actually spam, I report them to a service, and once it has been determined that they are actually spam, the IP addresses they come from are added to a block list. I do see a significant number from a Yahoo! IP address. Spam is an interesting area, and what little I know of it would fill many pages. Easiest thing you can do is to just delete it. Don't bother with blacklisting it locally, you'll probably never see that IP address again, or it will pop up only at long intervals. The from addresses are always spoofed, so it does you no good reply to them, as the address is not valid, or will go to some poor soul who has no idea that his/her mail address has been used by a spammer. Also the From address and the Reply to address may be different. If you feel that you must do something, report the spam to a service like SpamCop who will report it to the originating ISP, and if the mail is validated as true spam, will add that ISP to a block list. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning Heads Up Folks!   If you are writing into the group or one of its (Wise Men---a compliment!  Not a joke)) and you don't receive an answer back in a reasonable length of time, don't get upset with them.   CHECK YOU SPAM FOLDERS!!!!!!!   For some reason that I can't figure out I just found one old message from Lenny and two from Ray in there.  Why they started going into Spam I don't know but if you hit that delete or empty button, you may have just losted some answers to your questions.   Although the instructions from Yahoo are a bit vague here I would suggest, if you find messages in there that should be in your "In Box", check or click on them and in the small box heading click move to "In Box".  Hopefully next time they sent a reply, Yahoo will put your mail in its rightful place.   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33082	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?

I would have liked the Python just for that feature but can't see spending the extra bucks because as you know, I have to doctor the water anyway so the fill feature is useless to me.   Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 1:51 PM That's the purpose of making it gelatin based.. so it doesn't break down in the water so much. The gravel vacuums are really meant to be based on tank size, not gravel size. You don't want too big that it sucks up 25% of your water before you can vacuum the gravel but you don't want it too small that it takes you forever to vacuum the bottom of a bigger tank. I use my Python on all of my tanks and just adjust the water flow on the sink to slow down the suction on the 10G tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Could the reason also be that for these little mouths, anything else will go flying all over the tank and be more work for the gravel washer? While we are on that subject, remember the pictures that I posted? Looking at those, what size washer (siphon hose) connected to the tube would do the best job? This stuff is not exactly like the smaller 1/8" gravel most use but rather around 1/4 or more. Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 12:30 PM The goldfish gel-food will work for most omnivores. I haven't compared the ingredients on all of the recipe's in a while but the batch that I'm still feeding to my goldfish was kind of a compilation of the recipe's and also throwing in some leftover fish foods that I had that weren't very good for the fish on their own but were an additional filler in the gel-food. I'm not gourmet cook so my first batch did not gel properly so I had to squeeze all of the goop out of the 10 zip loc bags, back into a pot and add a second pack of cooked plain gelatin to the mix and then refill all my zip-loc bags. It worked the second time. I'm not sure there are many recipes specifically for small fish since even the batches made for goldfish will last quite a while. Remember, an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish and a 1" goldfish is probably equal to 10 1" tetras so that is why you don't see recipe's for smaller fish on the net. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Thanks Lenny!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !! That's a bit of a load off! I was just about to reach for the rubber surgical gloves! On fish food? Reading along here about those recipes for the gold fish folks? It seems nobody asked the obvious here??? What does Lenny use? Also since we're in the kitchen anyway, how about a good, if not great, home-mader for Tetra's, Cory cats and the rest of the gang that I have here? Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:43 AM Believe it or not... Walmart.com is one of the best places to start for this kind of info. At the bottom of their main page, is a link to MSDS http://msds. walmartstores. com/applications /Default. aspx and they have copies of the MSDS' for most of the products they sell. I went there, did a search for Tetratest.. no hits.. then just Tetra and got a list which included Ammonia Bottle 1 and all the other Tetra Test bottles as well. Here's the ..pdf for Ammonia Bottle 1. http://msds. walmartstores. com/cache/ 12473.pdf Which says... "... Dangerous components: 1310-58-3 Potassium Hydroxide 0.3%..." and further down on the document in section 4 you can read about "First Aid" but it doesn't seem to be bad stuff and does not generally irritate the skin at this concentration of only 0.3%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Good Morning, I am working with a Test Kit from Tetra the "Laborett" (don't laugh, its all I could find)! Anyway inside the kit the test for Ammonia in bottle #1, a strange crystallized substance has formed around the threading of the bottle at its neck. Is this stuff dangerous? Toxic? The rest of the test bottles are fine.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 12:51:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33083	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Question about "browning patches" on fish

Lenny, Okay, typos or just mistakes -- they all constitute errors in the end -- which can spell disaster for someone wanting to treat their fish while getting the wrong information. As this subject was directed at Badman's web-site, including a link to go up there, I did not see a reason to go to Pandora's site since I was addressing the the main principle of the subject. Its unfortunate that some of the original matter from Pandora's wound up with so many typos after being transferred. Yes, one "flag" that alerted me was that, except for fish TB, gram-positive bacteria pathogens are exceedingly rare in freshwater fish -- and, they generally do not attack skin. Thanks, I'm aware of these many details you outline, but I'm sure at least some of the readers can make use of them. While on the subject (as one of your details) of fish Tuberculosis (Mycobacterium), I would like to stress that should a tank become so infected, that one will not be able to disinfect it the usual way just using bleach. Mycobacteria needs alchohol or acetate to first dissolve its protective coating, to render it vulnerable to such disinfectants. Agreed, this category (in Badman's site) was not just limited to Columnaris, but covered many of the more common external bacterial diseases; I presume Pandora's site included the same, as I believe you're saying. I did make mention that Badman's covering of other more common diseases (Ich, Velvet, etc.) was decent; I did not feel it necessary to touch on them all as I was merely pointing out some of the errors I found. My point is that, while the average hobbyist may not buy good reference books because, as you point out, there are now websites and forums for getting free help -- they are selling themselves short. As you well know, there are many web-site offering such information, but then there are a good number of them offering erroneous information -- because they are not an authority on the subjects, but only pose to be. As previously stated, the unsuspecting hobbyist, not knowing what is correct, will often believe what is found on some of these bad web-sites and get into trouble with their fish (and not knowing why. One should never believe one source of info on the internet; there is absolutely no reason why a concerned hobbyist cannot purchase at least a few good books on the subject as they are still available -- if not in their LFS then on Ebay as used editions. We have recommended this very thing here on our group-site many times. A few dollars spent on a good book (or two) will be well worth it when confronted by the possibility of losing a tank of fish, not otherwise knowing what to do. There may be a new world out there now, but these hobbyists better wake up to what is real in aquarium literature if they want to take advantage of useful (not useless) guidance for their fish problems and not rely on some unknown internet source. Note, I am not lumping Pandora's web-site in this group, as it appears to be quite useful, but with so many other sites out there, a hobbyist has no way of knowing what is useful. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I think that Badman's site may have made some "typo's" in transferring > and/or reformatting the information from Pandora's site to his site.. well > not so much a typo but rather when reformatting the info, did not separate > it properly. > > I posted a follow-up thread to Joey's showing Pandora's original site > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/di sease. > html or TinyURL - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > and on that site she has... under the general heading of "Bacterial External > Infections" and mentions in "general" that "Gram positive" bacteria are > "exceedingly rare in FW fish.... but most do not attack skin..." and then > more specifically mentions "Gram negative: Flexibacter columnaris...". > below this paragraph is a copy/paste of the info on her site. I just looked > at Badman's copy of her page and I see where he kind of lumped it all > together but if you read it all in context, it says the same thing. > Certainly, a single long webpage is not going to replace multiple books but > for the average hobbyist with one or two tanks and just starting out, they > do not have access to the many books you have collected over the years... > nor will most people buy these books any longer since there are now websites > and forums for getting free help. It's a new world out there now. Ask any > former door-to-door encyclopedia salesmen. LOL > > (START SNIP from Pandora's site) > Bacterial External Infections > > Columnaris (specific to F. columnaris); Often Misnamed "Mouth Fungus", Fish > Tuberculosis/TB Skin Infection (specific to Mycobacterium spp.) > > Various organisms. Positive diagnosis not possible outside of lab culture & > microscopy (not practical for most hobbyists). > > Gram positive: exceedingly rare in FW fish; small handful of SW species, but > most primarily do not attack skin. > > Gram negative: Flexibacter columnaris, Aeromonas spp., Pseudomonas spp., > Vibrio spp., Salmonella spp., many others not listed. > > Non-stainable: Mycobacterium spp., mostly M. piscium & M. marinum > > NOTES - Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, > nitrites, nitrates. Columnaris perhaps one of the most common skin > infections of pet fish (livebearer fish and certain other fish especially > susceptible). Specifically for F. columnaris, read this article by Dr. Barb > . Fish tuberculosis (though not transmitted by the same species that causes > human tuberculosis) can be transmitted as zoonosis called "fish tank > granuloma" on hands with open wounds (again, another article by Dr. Barb > (link in website) discusses this issue. Use gloves if reaching in the tank > with suspect animals. > (END SNIP) > > This category was not just limited to Columnaris but rather to ALL external > bacterial infections and prefaced with "Positive diagnosis not possible > outside of lab culture..." so without a positive diagnosis, she was > recommending a broad spectrum treatment that included Maracyn 1 & 2 (not > just 1). Further, her notes mention that for F. columnaris, read this > article by Dr. Barb - http://www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm which > states among other things.. it's a long article... that "... Flexibacter is > a thin gram-negative rod bacterium..." > > As far as the mention of "Fish TB" it specifically says this... "...Often > Misnamed "Mouth Fungus", Fish Tuberculosis/TB Skin Infection.." the key word > being "Misnamed". > > You may be glancing over the info and/or inadvertently taking snips out of > context. Are you a political speech-writer? Is Ayer's "just a guy in your > neighborhood"? LOL > > Anyhow.. all that said, Pandora's webpage is not an end-all of information > but rather a very good starting point to help folks self-diagnose their fish > and gives them a starting point for what to do more research on. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish > > Hello Joey, Many thanks for the link to some of the most common fish > diseases, albeit, I see nothing here on "Browning Patches" with regards to > diseases that would help Dora and fail to see the connection. Other than > that, the site could be helpful if one knows where to draw the line in what > to believe from it. Unfortunately, the unsuspecting hobbyist would not know > what to believe and could lose fish from some of these recommendations if > adhering to them. > > I don't know if this site was put up by a professional fish pathologist or > not, but I do see some blatent mistakes that could cause tragedy. As is > always the best advice to follow, do not believe all you read on these web > pages, as anyone can put up a convincing looking page on the web -- and they > may even have 90% of their fact right -- but its that 10% of facts that they > may have copied (did they copy them all?) somewhere along the way that could > be very detrimental. One needs to take these recomendations with a grain of > salt, as they may be far from being gospel. Still, the best reference > sources by far are usually authoritative books on the subjects, and then, > its always best to have more than one. > > In going up to the Badman's fish diseases page, I noticed that they referred > to Columnaris as a gram-positive bacterium. In their treatments, in addition > to several recognized broad-spectrum antibiotics (which obviously should > have some impact), it was additionally mentioned to use Marcyn I > (Erythromycin) which is primarily a gram-positive antibiotic. This will have > little effect on Columnaris and anyone trying to use this medication against > this disease will not effect a cure. Best results (below pH 7.5) against > columnaris can be had with Tetracycline -- a broad-spectrum antibiotic, > effective against gram-negative pathogens. > > A yet puzzling insert on Badman's web-site in the treatment for Columnaris > was the alluding of Fish TB being associated with (or the same thing as?) > Columnaris, when, in the recommended treatment for Columnaris it went on to > say that Fish Tuberculosis is difficult to treat because it attacks > intracellularly. I don't understand their advice of this in context with > Columnaris treatment, unless they're trying to say they are one and the same > (as it seems they are saying). Columnaris is a gram-negative bacterium -- > Flexibacteria > (Flavibacterium) columnare, and Fish Tuberculosis is a gram-positive > Mycobacterium even including the external pathogen found on the skin (there > are other Mycobacteria species causing internal TB). > > While there may be some controversy as to whether Columnaris is a > gram-negative or a gram positive bacterium, results I've received from my > friend Stan Weitzman (Curator of Fishes, National Museum of Natural History > Smithsonian Museum, Washington) when I submitted such fish tissue to him was > that this Flexibacteria columnaris is indeed gram-negative -- which may seem > like a small detail, but not when you're trying to treat the disease. I > would be inclined to believe Dr. Weitzman (who is foremost in his field). > > I've also picked out a number of other mistakes, but won't go into them at > this point, already having taken up some space here. As would be expected > though, the more common diseases such as Ich and Velvet have good coverage > on this web site, but one can't just use one source where accuracy is > needed. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > joesbirds@ wrote: > > > > Here is a good sight with common fish diseases. _Tropical Fish > Disease > > Identification with pictures and cures._ > > > (http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_ident > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_ident > > ification.html) > > > > > > Joey > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 > Tested on: 11/15/2008 10:20:19 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33084	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning

� You must have already seen Len�s message to me about using Gmail. As you know I have an account but do you know how to configure it to fetch my yahoo mail too?� I think that�s what Len does but he did not say how to do it. � I use regular �Outlook 2000� but putting in all of the in-and out going plus POP�s would drive me nuts.� More on your thoughts, sir? � � Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 2:26 PM Yahoo! regularly appears on various block lists for spam, some widely used in the e-mail industry. Your ISP may be blocking mails from various Yahoo! IP addresses (and they have many) to prevent spam from entering their networks. If you are using a more recent version of Outlook, and have Junk E-mail filtering turned on, that may be filtering out various Yahoo! messages, though I have never been able to figure out their logic. Various third party programs may filter out Yahoo! messages for their own reasons, etc. I just took a look at my mail server, and I see that IMF has given me 1179 messages over the last 13 days to check (messages are scored, and all those under a certain score are passed through, while those between certain higher scores are quarantined, and mail with scores even higher are simply placed in oblivion) and none were from Yahoo!, but I think I've got most of their servers listed to allow through. FWIW, I got 11 pieces of spam in my mailbox over the last 13 days, nearly all of them from one ISP where I have a POP account. When you are filtering for spam, you walk a pretty fine line between false positives (mail that is not spam, but may appear to be) and spam, so you need to set your filters to allow a certain portion of what is likely to be spam through so you do not miss any ham (good e-mail). My last line of defense, an add-on to Outlook, places this into one of two folders--Junk and Junk Maybe (names are my own). With this, I can also remove mail that is not really spam, but that I do not want to be bothered with most of the time, so that when I look at my Inbox, they do not add to the total number of new messages, and running at about 200 messages a day, this is very important to me. For those messages that are actually spam, I report them to a service, and once it has been determined that they are actually spam, the IP addresses they come from are added to a block list. I do see a significant number from a Yahoo! IP address. Spam is an interesting area, and what little I know of it would fill many pages. Easiest thing you can do is to just delete it. Don't bother with blacklisting it locally, you'll probably never see that IP address again, or it will pop up only at long intervals. The from addresses are always spoofed, so it does you no good reply to them, as the address is not valid, or will go to some poor soul who has no idea that his/her mail address has been used by a spammer. Also the From address and the Reply to address may be different. If you feel that you must do something, report the spam to a service like SpamCop who will report it to the originating ISP, and if the mail is validated as true spam, will add that ISP to a block list. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning Heads Up Folks! � If you are writing into the group or one of its (Wise Men---a compliment!� Not a joke)) and you don't receive an answer back in a reasonable length of time, don't get upset with them. � CHECK YOU SPAM FOLDERS!!!!! !! � For some reason that I can't figure out I just found one old message from Lenny and two from Ray in there.� Why they started going into Spam I don't know but if you hit that delete or empty button, you may have just losted some answers to your questions. � Although the instructions from Yahoo are a bit vague here I would suggest, if you find messages in there that should be in your "In Box", check or click on them and in the small box heading click move to "In Box".� Hopefully next time they sent a reply, Yahoo will put your mail in its rightful place. � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33085	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning

Bill, Just sign up for your Gmail account. Then go to the help section and they will walk you through the setup for Outlook in both POP and IMAP flavors. There is probably a section there on getting mail from other active accounts to Gmail, but I have never used that so I really do not know. If you are only using Yahoo! for the mail lists, you could simply change the address you use for them to your Gmail address, and the mail will be sent there instead. While I have a Yahoo! login, I have never used their mail service, and all my list mail is sent to an address outside of Yahoo!. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning   You must have already seen Len's message to me about using Gmail. As you know I have an account but do you know how to configure it to fetch my yahoo mail too?  I think that's what Len does but he did not say how to do it.   I use regular "Outlook 2000" but putting in all of the in-and out going plus POP's would drive me nuts.  More on your thoughts, sir?     Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 2:26 PM Yahoo! regularly appears on various block lists for spam, some widely used in the e-mail industry. Your ISP may be blocking mails from various Yahoo! IP addresses (and they have many) to prevent spam from entering their networks. If you are using a more recent version of Outlook, and have Junk E-mail filtering turned on, that may be filtering out various Yahoo! messages, though I have never been able to figure out their logic. Various third party programs may filter out Yahoo! messages for their own reasons, etc. I just took a look at my mail server, and I see that IMF has given me 1179 messages over the last 13 days to check (messages are scored, and all those under a certain score are passed through, while those between certain higher scores are quarantined, and mail with scores even higher are simply placed in oblivion) and none were from Yahoo!, but I think I've got most of their servers listed to allow through. FWIW, I got 11 pieces of spam in my mailbox over the last 13 days, nearly all of them from one ISP where I have a POP account. When you are filtering for spam, you walk a pretty fine line between false positives (mail that is not spam, but may appear to be) and spam, so you need to set your filters to allow a certain portion of what is likely to be spam through so you do not miss any ham (good e-mail). My last line of defense, an add-on to Outlook, places this into one of two folders--Junk and Junk Maybe (names are my own). With this, I can also remove mail that is not really spam, but that I do not want to be bothered with most of the time, so that when I look at my Inbox, they do not add to the total number of new messages, and running at about 200 messages a day, this is very important to me. For those messages that are actually spam, I report them to a service, and once it has been determined that they are actually spam, the IP addresses they come from are added to a block list. I do see a significant number from a Yahoo! IP address. Spam is an interesting area, and what little I know of it would fill many pages. Easiest thing you can do is to just delete it. Don't bother with blacklisting it locally, you'll probably never see that IP address again, or it will pop up only at long intervals. The from addresses are always spoofed, so it does you no good reply to them, as the address is not valid, or will go to some poor soul who has no idea that his/her mail address has been used by a spammer. Also the From address and the Reply to address may be different. If you feel that you must do something, report the spam to a service like SpamCop who will report it to the originating ISP, and if the mail is validated as true spam, will add that ISP to a block list. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning Heads Up Folks!   If you are writing into the group or one of its (Wise Men---a compliment!  Not a joke)) and you don't receive an answer back in a reasonable length of time, don't get upset with them.   CHECK YOU SPAM FOLDERS!!!!! !!   For some reason that I can't figure out I just found one old message from Lenny and two from Ray in there.  Why they started going into Spam I don't know but if you hit that delete or empty button, you may have just losted some answers to your questions.   Although the instructions from Yahoo are a bit vague here I would suggest, if you find messages in there that should be in your "In Box", check or click on them and in the small box heading click move to "In Box".  Hopefully next time they sent a reply, Yahoo will put your mail in its rightful place.   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33086	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning

You could just "Forward" your mail from the Yahoo Mail to your Gmail account, let Gmail filter it better, then POP or IMAP it from Gmail to Outlook. You'll still have to look at your spam folder in Yahoo and Gmail, via the webmail pages, on a regular basis to mark as "Not Spam" any messages that accidentally go there. Gmail is very good at learning your spam preferences but I don't know about Yahoo since I do not use it enough so I do not get "good" mail in my Yahoo Mail spam folder... just lots of spam in my Yahoo Mail inbox. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning Bill, Just sign up for your Gmail account. Then go to the help section and they will walk you through the setup for Outlook in both POP and IMAP flavors. There is probably a section there on getting mail from other active accounts to Gmail, but I have never used that so I really do not know. If you are only using Yahoo! for the mail lists, you could simply change the address you use for them to your Gmail address, and the mail will be sent there instead. While I have a Yahoo! login, I have never used their mail service, and all my list mail is sent to an address outside of Yahoo!. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning You must have already seen Len's message to me about using Gmail. As you know I have an account but do you know how to configure it to fetch my yahoo mail too? I think that's what Len does but he did not say how to do it. I use regular "Outlook 2000" but putting in all of the in-and out going plus POP's would drive me nuts. More on your thoughts, sir? Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 2:26 PM Yahoo! regularly appears on various block lists for spam, some widely used in the e-mail industry. Your ISP may be blocking mails from various Yahoo! IP addresses (and they have many) to prevent spam from entering their networks. If you are using a more recent version of Outlook, and have Junk E-mail filtering turned on, that may be filtering out various Yahoo! messages, though I have never been able to figure out their logic. Various third party programs may filter out Yahoo! messages for their own reasons, etc. I just took a look at my mail server, and I see that IMF has given me 1179 messages over the last 13 days to check (messages are scored, and all those under a certain score are passed through, while those between certain higher scores are quarantined, and mail with scores even higher are simply placed in oblivion) and none were from Yahoo!, but I think I've got most of their servers listed to allow through. FWIW, I got 11 pieces of spam in my mailbox over the last 13 days, nearly all of them from one ISP where I have a POP account. When you are filtering for spam, you walk a pretty fine line between false positives (mail that is not spam, but may appear to be) and spam, so you need to set your filters to allow a certain portion of what is likely to be spam through so you do not miss any ham (good e-mail). My last line of defense, an add-on to Outlook, places this into one of two folders--Junk and Junk Maybe (names are my own). With this, I can also remove mail that is not really spam, but that I do not want to be bothered with most of the time, so that when I look at my Inbox, they do not add to the total number of new messages, and running at about 200 messages a day, this is very important to me. For those messages that are actually spam, I report them to a service, and once it has been determined that they are actually spam, the IP addresses they come from are added to a block list. I do see a significant number from a Yahoo! IP address. Spam is an interesting area, and what little I know of it would fill many pages. Easiest thing you can do is to just delete it. Don't bother with blacklisting it locally, you'll probably never see that IP address again, or it will pop up only at long intervals. The from addresses are always spoofed, so it does you no good reply to them, as the address is not valid, or will go to some poor soul who has no idea that his/her mail address has been used by a spammer. Also the From address and the Reply to address may be different. If you feel that you must do something, report the spam to a service like SpamCop who will report it to the originating ISP, and if the mail is validated as true spam, will add that ISP to a block list. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning Heads Up Folks! If you are writing into the group or one of its (Wise Men---a compliment! Not a joke)) and you don't receive an answer back in a reasonable length of time, don't get upset with them. CHECK YOU SPAM FOLDERS!!!!! !! For some reason that I can't figure out I just found one old message from Lenny and two from Ray in there. Why they started going into Spam I don't know but if you hit that delete or empty button, you may have just losted some answers to your questions. Although the instructions from Yahoo are a bit vague here I would suggest, if you find messages in there that should be in your "In Box", check or click on them and in the small box heading click move to "In Box". Hopefully next time they sent a reply, Yahoo will put your mail in its rightful place. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 2:26:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33087	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

Bill, Do you have a feed store nearby? Chickens use crushed oyster shells for digestion. $10 for 50 pounds at my feed store. Linda New Hudson, MI bill1433 wrote: > > > Hi \\Steve// > >>From your message: > “Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options.” > > Again, I very good idea, but again a shopping problem. Dolomite or crushed coral very easy to get at a good LPS. I don’t have a good LPS or any for that matter But Wally-World may have. The salt-water guys use it a lot and I would use the dolomite in place of sand in my Marine tanks. It’s just that I have a good bit of Limestone here. And that’s what I’ll start with until I can find the dolomite. > I assume you mentioned this because of its quicker breakdown ability as compared to the limestone? > > And also thanks very much for putting my mind at ease about the coolers. I always would use them in the colder months but I did have concerns about the Heat packs. One less; thing to worry about now. > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33088	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?

Most people doctor their water, Bill, and still use the Python. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? I would have liked the Python just for that feature but can't see spending the extra bucks because as you know, I have to doctor the water anyway so the fill feature is useless to me. Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 1:51 PM That's the purpose of making it gelatin based.. so it doesn't break down in the water so much. The gravel vacuums are really meant to be based on tank size, not gravel size. You don't want too big that it sucks up 25% of your water before you can vacuum the gravel but you don't want it too small that it takes you forever to vacuum the bottom of a bigger tank. I use my Python on all of my tanks and just adjust the water flow on the sink to slow down the suction on the 10G tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Could the reason also be that for these little mouths, anything else will go flying all over the tank and be more work for the gravel washer? While we are on that subject, remember the pictures that I posted? Looking at those, what size washer (siphon hose) connected to the tube would do the best job? This stuff is not exactly like the smaller 1/8" gravel most use but rather around 1/4 or more. Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 12:30 PM The goldfish gel-food will work for most omnivores. I haven't compared the ingredients on all of the recipe's in a while but the batch that I'm still feeding to my goldfish was kind of a compilation of the recipe's and also throwing in some leftover fish foods that I had that weren't very good for the fish on their own but were an additional filler in the gel-food. I'm not gourmet cook so my first batch did not gel properly so I had to squeeze all of the goop out of the 10 zip loc bags, back into a pot and add a second pack of cooked plain gelatin to the mix and then refill all my zip-loc bags. It worked the second time. I'm not sure there are many recipes specifically for small fish since even the batches made for goldfish will last quite a while. Remember, an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish and a 1" goldfish is probably equal to 10 1" tetras so that is why you don't see recipe's for smaller fish on the net. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Thanks Lenny!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !! That's a bit of a load off! I was just about to reach for the rubber surgical gloves! On fish food? Reading along here about those recipes for the gold fish folks? It seems nobody asked the obvious here??? What does Lenny use? Also since we're in the kitchen anyway, how about a good, if not great, home-mader for Tetra's, Cory cats and the rest of the gang that I have here? Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:43 AM Believe it or not... Walmart.com is one of the best places to start for this kind of info. At the bottom of their main page, is a link to MSDS http://msds. walmartstores. com/applications /Default. aspx and they have copies of the MSDS' for most of the products they sell. I went there, did a search for Tetratest.. no hits.. then just Tetra and got a list which included Ammonia Bottle 1 and all the other Tetra Test bottles as well. Here's the ..pdf for Ammonia Bottle 1. http://msds. walmartstores. com/cache/ 12473.pdf Which says... "... Dangerous components: 1310-58-3 Potassium Hydroxide 0.3%..." and further down on the document in section 4 you can read about "First Aid" but it doesn't seem to be bad stuff and does not generally irritate the skin at this concentration of only 0.3%. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Good Morning, I am working with a Test Kit from Tetra the "Laborett" (don't laugh, its all I could find)! Anyway inside the kit the test for Ammonia in bottle #1, a strange crystallized substance has formed around the threading of the bottle at its neck. Is this stuff dangerous? Toxic? The rest of the test bottles are fine.. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 12:51:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33089	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Jumping Pleco

Most fish can and will jump if there is nothing to prevent them from doing so. Also, I have seen plecos launch themselves to the surface when there is not enough dissolved oxygen; normally they get air this way but it is possible that they may accidently jump out of their tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Katie Craft" <mom2angeldog@...> wrote: > > Has anyone ever experianced a pleco jumping out of the tank and thus > comitting suicide???? Mine was missing and I thought he just found a > new hiding place. Just found his body behind the tank on the floor all > dried up like a mummy :( >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33090	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

Yes, I do and I'll check first thing Monday and thank you! � Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Linda Badeen <linda.rose@...> wrote: From: Linda Badeen <linda.rose@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 3:49 PM Bill, Do you have a feed store nearby? Chickens use crushed oyster shells for digestion. $10 for 50 pounds at my feed store. Linda New Hudson, MI bill1433 wrote: > > > Hi \\Steve// > >>From your message: > �Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options.� > > Again, I very good idea, but again a shopping problem. Dolomite or crushed coral very easy to get at a good LPS. I don�t have a good LPS or any for that matter But Wally-World may have. The salt-water guys use it a lot and I would use the dolomite in place of sand in my Marine tanks. It�s just that I have a good bit of Limestone here. And that�s what I�ll start with until I can find the dolomite. > I assume you mentioned this because of its quicker breakdown ability as compared to the limestone? > > And also thanks very much for putting my mind at ease about the coolers. I always would use them in the colder months but I did have concerns about the Heat packs. One less; thing to worry about now. > > Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

Also check to see if they have Oyster Flour which is the oyster shells turned into a flour like product... which is then calcium carbonate... which you can then dose just like the baking soda to raise both the GH and KH. Your other option is seeing if they sell Cuttle Bones for parakeets, etc., as those are Cuttle Bones also calcium carbonate as well and they are MUCH softer than oyster shells so they'll dissolve easier. Of course, with any of these methods, you'll have to test your GH and KH on a regular basis and remove/add media as necessary. Or... like many of us have said... stick with fish that like your water so all you have to do is let it come up to room temp and aerate it a little to outgas the CO2. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me Yes, I do and I'll check first thing Monday and thank you! Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Linda Badeen <linda.rose@...> wrote: From: Linda Badeen <linda.rose@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 3:49 PM Bill, Do you have a feed store nearby? Chickens use crushed oyster shells for digestion. $10 for 50 pounds at my feed store. Linda New Hudson, MI bill1433 wrote: > > > Hi \\Steve// > >>From your message: > "Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small > bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options." > > Again, I very good idea, but again a shopping problem. Dolomite or crushed coral very easy to get at a good LPS. I don't have a good LPS or any for that matter But Wally-World may have. The salt-water guys use it a lot and I would use the dolomite in place of sand in my Marine tanks. It's just that I have a good bit of Limestone here. And that's what I'll start with until I can find the dolomite. > I assume you mentioned this because of its quicker breakdown ability > as compared to the limestone? > > And also thanks very much for putting my mind at ease about the coolers. I always would use them in the colder months but I did have concerns about the Heat packs. One less; thing to worry about now. > > Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081115-0, 11/15/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 4:57:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33092	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me

I would BUT,   since changing the Ph from the in the cellar readings I noticed one thing about the fish themselves.  They are out more, cory cats, included and swimming all over the place. Ya, I know..................if fish could talk!  But the point is they do seem better that they were.  After all, I'm not here to make things easier for me, I'm here to make things better for them.   Onward,   Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 5:57 PM Also check to see if they have Oyster Flour which is the oyster shells turned into a flour like product... which is then calcium carbonate... which you can then dose just like the baking soda to raise both the GH and KH. Your other option is seeing if they sell Cuttle Bones for parakeets, etc., as those are Cuttle Bones also calcium carbonate as well and they are MUCH softer than oyster shells so they'll dissolve easier. Of course, with any of these methods, you'll have to test your GH and KH on a regular basis and remove/add media as necessary. Or... like many of us have said... stick with fish that like your water so all you have to do is let it come up to room temp and aerate it a little to outgas the CO2. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me Yes, I do and I'll check first thing Monday and thank you! Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Linda Badeen <linda.rose@comcast. net> wrote: From: Linda Badeen <linda.rose@comcast. net> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Type's for \\Steve// and everyone trying to help me To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 3:49 PM Bill, Do you have a feed store nearby? Chickens use crushed oyster shells for digestion. $10 for 50 pounds at my feed store. Linda New Hudson, MI bill1433 wrote: > > > Hi \\Steve// > >>From your message: > "Instead of the limestone you have been talking about, find a small > bag of dolomite. It can be used as a substrate, or part of your substrate as well as being bagged and placed in a filter. It will also act to raise the hardness of your water and raise the pH. Crushed coral sand or oyster shell are also options." > > Again, I very good idea, but again a shopping problem. Dolomite or crushed coral very easy to get at a good LPS. I don't have a good LPS or any for that matter But Wally-World may have. The salt-water guys use it a lot and I would use the dolomite in place of sand in my Marine tanks. It's just that I have a good bit of Limestone here. And that's what I'll start with until I can find the dolomite. > I assume you mentioned this because of its quicker breakdown ability > as compared to the limestone? > > And also thanks very much for putting my mind at ease about the coolers. I always would use them in the colder months but I did have concerns about the Heat packs. One less; thing to worry about now. > > Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081115-0, 11/15/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 4:57:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33093	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: What Is It?

Thanks Lenny for the tip if my goop doesn't gel. And Bill, the recipes were not solely for goldfish - one was for cichlids, but I added mostly veggies to the shrimp for my mollies and (sorry) wagtails. I will say the process was messy - the spirulina powder made it very green and the aroma of raw shrimp and garlic - almost had an Exorcist moment. Sure hope the goop gels so I don't have to do it again. lol. Barbara In a message dated 11/15/2008 12:30:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: The goldfish gel-food will work for most omnivores. I haven't compared the ingredients on all of the recipe's in a while but the batch that I'm still feeding to my goldfish was kind of a compilation of the recipe's and also throwing in some leftover fish foods that I had that weren't very good for the fish on their own but were an additional filler in the gel-food. I'm not gourmet cook so my first batch did not gel properly so I had to squeeze all of the goop out of the 10 zip loc bags, back into a pot and add a second pack of cooked plain gelatin to the mix and then refill all my zip-loc bags. It worked the second time. I'm not sure there are many recipes specifically for small fish since even the batches made for goldfish will last quite a while. Remember, an adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish and a 1" goldfish is probably equal to 10 1" tetras so that is why you don't see recipe's for smaller fish on the net. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What Is It? Thanks Lenny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That’s a bit of a load off! I was just about to reach for the rubber surgical gloves! On fish food? Reading along here about those recipes for the gold fish folks? It seems nobody asked the obvious here??? What does Lenny use? Also since we’re in the kitchen anyway, how about a good, if not great, home-mader for Tetra’s, Cory cats and the rest of the gang that I have here? Bill **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33094	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Jumping Pleco

I had an 'armored cat'... looked like a brown plecostomus with hard scales, but otherwise pleco shaped. He would come after me when I dipped the cup in to get plant water. Used to be, I never did 'PWC', I watered all my plants, then refilled the tank, lol. Anyway, he'd chase, I'd yank my hand out, getting wet in the process, usually, since I was dipping out water. WEll, so one day, I am watering the plants, and he miss judged, when I yanked back, he came sailing out of the tank and landed on the floor. After flipping around for a minute, human fingers touching him, picking him up and put him back in the water... he never chased that cup again! Laura in KY In a message dated 11/15/2008 3:57:17 PM Central Standard Time, gambusiaaffinis@... writes: Most fish can and will jump if there is nothing to prevent them from doing so. Also, I have seen plecos launch themselves to the surface when there is not enough dissolved oxygen; normally they get air this way but it is possible that they may accidently jump out of their tank. **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33095	From: bill1433	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: A Yahoo Mail Warning

\\Steve//,   I must really be having a bad "Senior Moment Day"! Why didn't I think of that?  And Thanks.   Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 3:09 PM Bill, Just sign up for your Gmail account. Then go to the help section and they will walk you through the setup for Outlook in both POP and IMAP flavors. There is probably a section there on getting mail from other active accounts to Gmail, but I have never used that so I really do not know. If you are only using Yahoo! for the mail lists, you could simply change the address you use for them to your Gmail address, and the mail will be sent there instead. While I have a Yahoo! login, I have never used their mail service, and all my list mail is sent to an address outside of Yahoo!. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning   You must have already seen Len's message to me about using Gmail. As you know I have an account but do you know how to configure it to fetch my yahoo mail too?  I think that's what Len does but he did not say how to do it.   I use regular "Outlook 2000" but putting in all of the in-and out going plus POP's would drive me nuts.  More on your thoughts, sir?     Bill --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 2:26 PM Yahoo! regularly appears on various block lists for spam, some widely used in the e-mail industry. Your ISP may be blocking mails from various Yahoo! IP addresses (and they have many) to prevent spam from entering their networks. If you are using a more recent version of Outlook, and have Junk E-mail filtering turned on, that may be filtering out various Yahoo! messages, though I have never been able to figure out their logic. Various third party programs may filter out Yahoo! messages for their own reasons, etc. I just took a look at my mail server, and I see that IMF has given me 1179 messages over the last 13 days to check (messages are scored, and all those under a certain score are passed through, while those between certain higher scores are quarantined, and mail with scores even higher are simply placed in oblivion) and none were from Yahoo!, but I think I've got most of their servers listed to allow through. FWIW, I got 11 pieces of spam in my mailbox over the last 13 days, nearly all of them from one ISP where I have a POP account. When you are filtering for spam, you walk a pretty fine line between false positives (mail that is not spam, but may appear to be) and spam, so you need to set your filters to allow a certain portion of what is likely to be spam through so you do not miss any ham (good e-mail). My last line of defense, an add-on to Outlook, places this into one of two folders--Junk and Junk Maybe (names are my own). With this, I can also remove mail that is not really spam, but that I do not want to be bothered with most of the time, so that when I look at my Inbox, they do not add to the total number of new messages, and running at about 200 messages a day, this is very important to me. For those messages that are actually spam, I report them to a service, and once it has been determined that they are actually spam, the IP addresses they come from are added to a block list. I do see a significant number from a Yahoo! IP address. Spam is an interesting area, and what little I know of it would fill many pages. Easiest thing you can do is to just delete it. Don't bother with blacklisting it locally, you'll probably never see that IP address again, or it will pop up only at long intervals. The from addresses are always spoofed, so it does you no good reply to them, as the address is not valid, or will go to some poor soul who has no idea that his/her mail address has been used by a spammer. Also the From address and the Reply to address may be different. If you feel that you must do something, report the spam to a service like SpamCop who will report it to the originating ISP, and if the mail is validated as true spam, will add that ISP to a block list. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] A Yahoo Mail Warning Heads Up Folks!   If you are writing into the group or one of its (Wise Men---a compliment!  Not a joke)) and you don't receive an answer back in a reasonable length of time, don't get upset with them.   CHECK YOU SPAM FOLDERS!!!!! !!   For some reason that I can't figure out I just found one old message from Lenny and two from Ray in there.  Why they started going into Spam I don't know but if you hit that delete or empty button, you may have just losted some answers to your questions.   Although the instructions from Yahoo are a bit vague here I would suggest, if you find messages in there that should be in your "In Box", check or click on them and in the small box heading click move to "In Box".  Hopefully next time they sent a reply, Yahoo will put your mail in its rightful place.   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33096	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question abo

good site. It won't let me right click and create a shortcut on my desktop, however. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:14 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish) Joey, Thanks for the link. I was looking at that page and at first glace, I was thinking... wow.. this looks so familiar to Pandora's Fish Palace Disease page (which went off the net a couple of years ago)... at least it had many of the same photos, and then when I scrolled back up to the top, I saw where Badman did acknowledge that he worked with the former hosting service for her site to replicate her page after her site went down. Badman did not include everything from Pandora's old site but you can still view the original page with even more photos and information since it was Archived on the Internet Wayback Archive Machine which takes working (links work) snapshots of every page on the internet several times a year. Here's the original page but it will take a minute to load on a DSL line due to the dozens of photos on the page.... much longer if you're still on dial-up. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html Here's the TinyURL since the above link will likely wrap/break - http://www.tinyurl.com/2m83ee Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joesbirds@... Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish Here is a good sight with common fish diseases. _Tropical Fish Disease Identification with pictures and cures._ (http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat ion.html <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat ion.html> ) Joey www.pbase.com/joesbirds _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081114-0, 11/14/2008 Tested on: 11/14/2008 10:14:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33097	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question abo

If using IE, you should be using your Favorites folder and subfolders to save links and keep them organized... but if you really want to save it to your desktop, then on IE, choose the File menu > Send > Shortcut To Desktop. On a site like Pandora's where they used software to try and copy protect the content, you can still highlight the content and use the Edit menu on the top of IE to copy. Most sites do not block content from being copied like Pandora tried since it doesn't work anyhow... just takes an extra step by having the use the main menu bar rather than right clicking with the mouse. You might want to save Pandora's original page saved on the Internet Wayback Archive site, which I provided a TinyURL for in a previous post, since the original site has even more content and is better formatted. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 7:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish) good site. It won't let me right click and create a shortcut on my desktop, however. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:14 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish) Joey, Thanks for the link. I was looking at that page and at first glace, I was thinking... wow.. this looks so familiar to Pandora's Fish Palace Disease page (which went off the net a couple of years ago)... at least it had many of the same photos, and then when I scrolled back up to the top, I saw where Badman did acknowledge that he worked with the former hosting service for her site to replicate her page after her site went down. Badman did not include everything from Pandora's old site but you can still view the original page with even more photos and information since it was Archived on the Internet Wayback Archive Machine which takes working (links work) snapshots of every page on the internet several times a year. Here's the original page but it will take a minute to load on a DSL line due to the dozens of photos on the page.... much longer if you're still on dial-up. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease .> html Here's the TinyURL since the above link will likely wrap/break - http://www.tinyurl.com/2m83ee <http://www.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of joesbirds@... <mailto:joesbirds%40aol.com> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish Here is a good sight with common fish diseases. _Tropical Fish Disease Identification with pictures and cures._ (http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat > ion.html <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat > > ion.html> ) Joey www.pbase.com/joesbirds _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081115-1, 11/15/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 8:15:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33098	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question abo

Thanks. I looked for such an alternate route but did nto find one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:15 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish) If using IE, you should be using your Favorites folder and subfolders to save links and keep them organized... but if you really want to save it to your desktop, then on IE, choose the File menu > Send > Shortcut To Desktop. On a site like Pandora's where they used software to try and copy protect the content, you can still highlight the content and use the Edit menu on the top of IE to copy. Most sites do not block content from being copied like Pandora tried since it doesn't work anyhow... just takes an extra step by having the use the main menu bar rather than right clicking with the mouse. You might want to save Pandora's original page saved on the Internet Wayback Archive site, which I provided a TinyURL for in a previous post, since the original site has even more content and is better formatted. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 7:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish) good site. It won't let me right click and create a shortcut on my desktop, however. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:14 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Disease and Fish Health Information pages (was - Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish) Joey, Thanks for the link. I was looking at that page and at first glace, I was thinking... wow.. this looks so familiar to Pandora's Fish Palace Disease page (which went off the net a couple of years ago)... at least it had many of the same photos, and then when I scrolled back up to the top, I saw where Badman did acknowledge that he worked with the former hosting service for her site to replicate her page after her site went down. Badman did not include everything from Pandora's old site but you can still view the original page with even more photos and information since it was Archived on the Internet Wayback Archive Machine which takes working (links work) snapshots of every page on the internet several times a year. Here's the original page but it will take a minute to load on a DSL line due to the dozens of photos on the page.... much longer if you're still on dial-up. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. <http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease .> html Here's the TinyURL since the above link will likely wrap/break - http://www.tinyurl.com/2m83ee <http://www.tinyurl.com/2m83ee> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of joesbirds@... <mailto:joesbirds%40aol.com> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Question about "browning patches" on fish Here is a good sight with common fish diseases. _Tropical Fish Disease Identification with pictures and cures._ (http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat > ion.html <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identificat > > ion.html> ) Joey www.pbase.com/joesbirds _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081115-1, 11/15/2008 Tested on: 11/15/2008 8:15:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33099	From: Alina	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Ick emergency

Help. It's not just raining, it's pouring. Let me set the scene. My hospital/quarantine tank has two platys that are sick with some sort of fungus. I started treating with Pimafix but today I started them on Myacin. Then, in my main tank (a 38g) there is a gold gourami that has what appears to be ick. His fins have these little spots and he looks salted. Everyone else in the tank seems to be fine. I have invertebrates in that main tank, two snails. I also have a Cory and a mini Pleco. The rest are platys, guppies, mollies, tetras (several --neons, red eyes); and two live plants. Water wysteria. Levels are all in good ranges. My question is: Should I remove the two snails to the hospital tank so that I can treat the main tank with CopperSAfe? The Myacin directions indicate it's safe for invertebrates. Does anyone have experience with this...If so, what about the Cory and the Pleco? Or, conversely, should I take the one sick fish out of the main tank, and treat him along with the platys in the hospital tank and hope I have caught the infection early. I know I can treat with both Mycacin and CopperSafe. I know this raises all sorts of questions, like I may infect my hospital tank with Ick....and if I later have to treat the main tank, I have no place to put my friends the snails, and I'll end up with two tanks that have been treated with copper. Am I making sense? Just need to figure out best way to deal with the illness and the invertebrates.. Advice needed badly. Thanks alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33100	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency

Alina, No need to panic. Start by raising the temperature of your main tank. Your goal is 84^oF. Move your snails to a third container with some tank water in it. Add about 1 teaspoon per gallon of salt to your ich tank. If you do not happen to have kosher or marine salt on hand, use table salt. You can go to the store in the morning and get some kosher salt or canning salt. Keep your eye on the cory and pleco. The cory can be sensitive to salt. The pleco may be also, not knowing its species or origin. If they look good, increase the salt by adding another 1/2 teaspoon per gallon tomorrow and continue to do so, so long as they look to be unaffected by the salt concentration., until you reach a level of 3 teaspoons per gallon. The period of treatment should last 7-10 days. Once you notice no more cysts on the fish for three days, do a water change and start to reduce the temperature back to its normal range. Do the temperature reduction over several days. Here is what is happening. The cysts on your gourami will burst, releasing the eggs of the parasite, which will float to the bottom of the tank. The heat speeds up the life cycle of this parasite. After a day or so, the eggs will hatch and the parasites will start looking for a new host. This is when they are vulnerable to the treatment. The salt will kill them. However, some will still find a host before death, where the cycle will begin anew. The salt will also have the effect of increasing the production of slime on the fish's bodies. This will also help them from becoming affected by the next generation of ich. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick emergency Help. It's not just raining, it's pouring. Let me set the scene. My hospital/quarantine tank has two platys that are sick with some sort of fungus. I started treating with Pimafix but today I started them on Myacin. Then, in my main tank (a 38g) there is a gold gourami that has what appears to be ick. His fins have these little spots and he looks salted. Everyone else in the tank seems to be fine. I have invertebrates in that main tank, two snails. I also have a Cory and a mini Pleco. The rest are platys, guppies, mollies, tetras (several --neons, red eyes); and two live plants. Water wysteria. Levels are all in good ranges. My question is: Should I remove the two snails to the hospital tank so that I can treat the main tank with CopperSAfe? The Myacin directions indicate it's safe for invertebrates. Does anyone have experience with this...If so, what about the Cory and the Pleco? Or, conversely, should I take the one sick fish out of the main tank, and treat him along with the platys in the hospital tank and hope I have caught the infection early. I know I can treat with both Mycacin and CopperSafe. I know this raises all sorts of questions, like I may infect my hospital tank with Ick....and if I later have to treat the main tank, I have no place to put my friends the snails, and I'll end up with two tanks that have been treated with copper. Am I making sense? Just need to figure out best way to deal with the illness and the invertebrates.. Advice needed badly. Thanks alina ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33101	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2008
Subject: REVIEW: Sudamerickanische Zwergcichliden (South American Dwarf Cichl

This is a German publication, and, the language is German, but do not let that throw you off since the English translation is also included. This is published by DATZ, which also publishes a regular magazine and has put out a number of special publications covering various groups of fishes. This is one of those special publications. DATZ is an umbrella organization for German fish clubs. This publication was issued in 2005, and, cost me about $35.00 when I recently purchased it. It is in a magazine format, and is listed as the 12th special publication. As the title suggests, this publication is about South American Dwarf Cichlids. This covers the _Apistogramma_ groups, _Crenicara_, _Dicrossus_, _Nannacara_, and other, less well known genera. The publication starts out with "Observations on the ecology of dwarf cichlids" which describes where they are likely to be found. It is in this section that it is mentioned that some of the waters in the range of some dwarf cichlids has a pH of 3.8, and is very soft with less than 1mg/l of CA and Mg. The next section goes into the maintenance of dwarf cichlids in the aquarium, making notes about where some species will differ from the norm. It is stated that most will do well in a pH of 6.5-7.5, but to keep and breed some, you would need a pH in the area of 4.0. There is a section on the phylogeny of the genus _Apistogramma_ which attempts to show the relationship between the various species. Some of you may be familiar with the L-numbers that are given to _Loricariidae_ to distinguish them from others until based on location found and/or similarity to similar fish. There is also a C-number series for the _Corydoras_ catfish. This publication introduces an A-number series for the _Apistogramma_ genus. They also list a degree of difficulty that is given to each fish, with 1 being a piece of cake, relatively speaking, to keep, and 3 meaning that you should probably know what you are doing to keep, breed, and raise those fish. Finally we come to the fish. Each species is represented by at least one photo, some have several photos, and a short description for each species. The listings and photos are arranged by A-number. Each photo has the A-number assigned to the fish and the current name of the fish to make it easy to match to the short descriptions given. Once the _Apistogramma_ species have been covered, other genera are covered in no discernable order. One failing of the descriptions is that most lack a size to go with the fish, so you really do not know if you are looking at a 2" fish or a 4" fish that may be typical of the species. To be sure, some species may not have this information available, but to leave this information out for the vast majority of these fish is a mistake that I hope will be corrected someday. Also lacking is any idea of sexual dimorphism which is handy in determining if you are buying a group containing males and females or not. The fish section is followed by a page of references used, and an index. A couple of pages of advertising finishes off the publication. If you are keeping South American Dwarf Cichlids, you may want to get a copy of this publication to add to your library.. You should be able to get a copy from a dealer in aquatic literature. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33102	From: Alina	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency

How long can my snails live in this third container? I don't have any thing that can provide filtration or oxygen (just my two filter mechanisms on the 10-gal, and the main tank). And if the Cory is affected? Take the chance and mover her to the quarantine tank? I have aquarium salt on hand..... Thanks.. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Alina, > > No need to panic. Start by raising the temperature of your main tank. Your goal is 84^oF. Move your snails to a third container with some tank water in it. Add about 1 teaspoon per gallon of salt to your ich tank. If you do not happen to have kosher or marine salt on hand, use table salt. You can go to the store in the morning and get some kosher salt or canning salt. Keep your eye on the cory and pleco. The cory can be sensitive to salt. The pleco may be also, not knowing its species or origin. If they look good, increase the salt by adding another 1/2 teaspoon per gallon tomorrow and continue to do so, so long as they look to be unaffected by the salt concentration., until you reach a level of 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > The period of treatment should last 7-10 days. Once you notice no more cysts on the fish for three days, do a water change and start to reduce the temperature back to its normal range. Do the temperature reduction over several days. > > Here is what is happening. The cysts on your gourami will burst, releasing the eggs of the parasite, which will float to the bottom of the tank. The heat speeds up the life cycle of this parasite. After a day or so, the eggs will hatch and the parasites will start looking for a new host. This is when they are vulnerable to the treatment. The salt will kill them. However, some will still find a host before death, where the cycle will begin anew. The salt will also have the effect of increasing the production of slime on the fish's bodies. This will also help them from becoming affected by the next generation of ich. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick emergency > > > Help. > > It's not just raining, it's pouring. Let me set the scene. My > hospital/quarantine tank has two platys that are sick with some sort > of fungus. I started treating with Pimafix but today I started them > on Myacin. > > Then, in my main tank (a 38g) there is a gold gourami that has what > appears to be ick. His fins have these little spots and he looks > salted. Everyone else in the tank seems to be fine. > > I have invertebrates in that main tank, two snails. I also have a > Cory and a mini Pleco. > > The rest are platys, guppies, mollies, tetras (several --neons, red > eyes); and two live plants. Water wysteria. > > Levels are all in good ranges. > > My question is: Should I remove the two snails to the hospital tank > so that I can treat the main tank with CopperSAfe? The Myacin > directions indicate it's safe for invertebrates. Does anyone have > experience with this...If so, what about the Cory and the Pleco? > > Or, conversely, should I take the one sick fish out of the main tank, > and treat him along with the platys in the hospital tank and hope I > have caught the infection early. I know I can treat with both Mycacin > and CopperSafe. I know this raises all sorts of questions, like I may > infect my hospital tank with Ick....and if I later have to treat the > main tank, I have no place to put my friends the snails, and I'll end > up with two tanks that have been treated with copper. > > Am I making sense? Just need to figure out best way to deal with the > illness and the invertebrates.. > > Advice needed badly. > > Thanks > > alina > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33103	From: Alina	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency

Oh, and the carbon in my filter can stay, yes? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Alina, > > No need to panic. Start by raising the temperature of your main tank. Your goal is 84^oF. Move your snails to a third container with some tank water in it. Add about 1 teaspoon per gallon of salt to your ich tank. If you do not happen to have kosher or marine salt on hand, use table salt. You can go to the store in the morning and get some kosher salt or canning salt. Keep your eye on the cory and pleco. The cory can be sensitive to salt. The pleco may be also, not knowing its species or origin. If they look good, increase the salt by adding another 1/2 teaspoon per gallon tomorrow and continue to do so, so long as they look to be unaffected by the salt concentration., until you reach a level of 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > The period of treatment should last 7-10 days. Once you notice no more cysts on the fish for three days, do a water change and start to reduce the temperature back to its normal range. Do the temperature reduction over several days. > > Here is what is happening. The cysts on your gourami will burst, releasing the eggs of the parasite, which will float to the bottom of the tank. The heat speeds up the life cycle of this parasite. After a day or so, the eggs will hatch and the parasites will start looking for a new host. This is when they are vulnerable to the treatment. The salt will kill them. However, some will still find a host before death, where the cycle will begin anew. The salt will also have the effect of increasing the production of slime on the fish's bodies. This will also help them from becoming affected by the next generation of ich. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick emergency > > > Help. > > It's not just raining, it's pouring. Let me set the scene. My > hospital/quarantine tank has two platys that are sick with some sort > of fungus. I started treating with Pimafix but today I started them > on Myacin. > > Then, in my main tank (a 38g) there is a gold gourami that has what > appears to be ick. His fins have these little spots and he looks > salted. Everyone else in the tank seems to be fine. > > I have invertebrates in that main tank, two snails. I also have a > Cory and a mini Pleco. > > The rest are platys, guppies, mollies, tetras (several --neons, red > eyes); and two live plants. Water wysteria. > > Levels are all in good ranges. > > My question is: Should I remove the two snails to the hospital tank > so that I can treat the main tank with CopperSAfe? The Myacin > directions indicate it's safe for invertebrates. Does anyone have > experience with this...If so, what about the Cory and the Pleco? > > Or, conversely, should I take the one sick fish out of the main tank, > and treat him along with the platys in the hospital tank and hope I > have caught the infection early. I know I can treat with both Mycacin > and CopperSafe. I know this raises all sorts of questions, like I may > infect my hospital tank with Ick....and if I later have to treat the > main tank, I have no place to put my friends the snails, and I'll end > up with two tanks that have been treated with copper. > > Am I making sense? Just need to figure out best way to deal with the > illness and the invertebrates.. > > Advice needed badly. > > Thanks > > alina > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33104	From: Chris	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: fishless cycling, ammonia, & ppm

Well. It can't stall it that much. 5ppm isn't an increment of my color card, but I know I diluted to a higer number than 5. It was pretty close to 8ppm at around 10:30pm last night. Its 8:30am where I am now and I tested the ammonia between 2 and 4ppm. That is a 4 to 6ppm drop in 10 hours. I haven't tested my nitrites or nitrates yet, but last time I tested it was almost off the charts. I misplaced my nitrate card, but the vile turned a deep red on my color chart. That was more than a couple days ago. Around a 4 days to a week ago. I must be getting close.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33105	From: greychildren	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Clown loaches eating my plants

Hey guys I have an issue with my clown loaches there killing my amazon sword plants.. the plants look like i had caterpillar eating them. is there anything i can do to stop them? or are my amazon dead in the water? My budget has gone down the tube.. if you guys have any plants to share i will pay fro shipping. Btw guys i was looking in the fresh water canal next to my home and i saw some Anubias and java moss but i don't know if i cant bring them into my tank. i fear spreading diseases and parasites. Is there any treatment i can give those plants so i can put em in my tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33106	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants

If you’ve got something eating your plants, shouldn’t you solve that problem before introducing more plants? Outdoor plants will come with diseases and parasites as you suspect. In addition, they are acclimated to a colder habitat than your tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown loaches eating my plants Hey guys I have an issue with my clown loaches there killing my amazon sword plants.. the plants look like i had caterpillar eating them. is there anything i can do to stop them? or are my amazon dead in the water? My budget has gone down the tube.. if you guys have any plants to share i will pay fro shipping. Btw guys i was looking in the fresh water canal next to my home and i saw some Anubias and java moss but i don't know if i cant bring them into my tank. i fear spreading diseases and parasites. Is there any treatment i can give those plants so i can put em in my tank? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33107	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants

Ways to sanitize/disinfect plants: http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686 I'm not sure you can stop them from eating your swords. I've seen many threads over the years about Clown Loaches eating swords. Apparently they like them as a snack. You could try feeding them more greens/veggies in their diet.... cucumber, zucchini slices.. and getting hardier plants. Here's a snip from the Loaches.com profile... http://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus Feeding: Defrosted frozen bloodworms, white mosquito larvae, brine shrimp, etc; chopped prawns are appreciated by larger fish; manufactured sinking wafers (algae, carnivore wafers...), fresh or blanched vegetables such as cucumber, zucchini, lightly boiled peas. Other keepers have had success with foods such as watermelon and banana, quality flake food. Will enjoy nibbling at soft or fine leaved aquatic plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 7:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown loaches eating my plants Hey guys I have an issue with my clown loaches there killing my amazon sword plants.. the plants look like i had caterpillar eating them. is there anything i can do to stop them? or are my amazon dead in the water? My budget has gone down the tube.. if you guys have any plants to share i will pay fro shipping. Btw guys i was looking in the fresh water canal next to my home and i saw some Anubias and java moss but i don't know if i cant bring them into my tank. i fear spreading diseases and parasites. Is there any treatment i can give those plants so i can put em in my tank? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081115-1, 11/15/2008 Tested on: 11/16/2008 8:45:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33108	From: greychildren	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants

Donna so what should i do? and the weather outside is warmer that inside my home sense i live in south florida and i don't use a water heater in my tanks --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > If you've got something eating your plants, shouldn't you solve that problem > before introducing more plants? > > > > Outdoor plants will come with diseases and parasites as you suspect. In > addition, they are acclimated to a colder habitat than your tank. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown loaches eating my plants > > > > Hey guys > > I have an issue with my clown loaches there killing my amazon sword > plants.. the plants look like i had caterpillar eating them. is there > anything i can do to stop them? or are my amazon dead in the water? > > My budget has gone down the tube.. if you guys have any plants to > share i will pay fro shipping. > > Btw guys i was looking in the fresh water canal next to my home and i > saw some Anubias and java moss but i don't know if i cant bring them > into my tank. i fear spreading diseases and parasites. Is there any > treatment i can give those plants so i can put em in my tank? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33109	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency

Yes. Carbon does not remove salt from water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 7:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ick emergency Oh, and the carbon in my filter can stay, yes? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Alina, > > No need to panic. Start by raising the temperature of your main tank. Your goal is 84^oF. Move your snails to a third container with some tank water in it. Add about 1 teaspoon per gallon of salt to your ich tank. If you do not happen to have kosher or marine salt on hand, use table salt. You can go to the store in the morning and get some kosher salt or canning salt. Keep your eye on the cory and pleco. The cory can be sensitive to salt. The pleco may be also, not knowing its species or origin. If they look good, increase the salt by adding another 1/2 teaspoon per gallon tomorrow and continue to do so, so long as they look to be unaffected by the salt concentration., until you reach a level of 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > The period of treatment should last 7-10 days. Once you notice no more cysts on the fish for three days, do a water change and start to reduce the temperature back to its normal range. Do the temperature reduction over several days. > > Here is what is happening. The cysts on your gourami will burst, releasing the eggs of the parasite, which will float to the bottom of the tank. The heat speeds up the life cycle of this parasite. After a day or so, the eggs will hatch and the parasites will start looking for a new host. This is when they are vulnerable to the treatment. The salt will kill them. However, some will still find a host before death, where the cycle will begin anew. The salt will also have the effect of increasing the production of slime on the fish's bodies. This will also help them from becoming affected by the next generation of ich. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick emergency > > > Help. > > It's not just raining, it's pouring. Let me set the scene. My > hospital/quarantine tank has two platys that are sick with some sort > of fungus. I started treating with Pimafix but today I started them on > Myacin. > > Then, in my main tank (a 38g) there is a gold gourami that has what > appears to be ick. His fins have these little spots and he looks > salted. Everyone else in the tank seems to be fine. > > I have invertebrates in that main tank, two snails. I also have a Cory > and a mini Pleco. > > The rest are platys, guppies, mollies, tetras (several --neons, red > eyes); and two live plants. Water wysteria. > > Levels are all in good ranges. > > My question is: Should I remove the two snails to the hospital tank so > that I can treat the main tank with CopperSAfe? The Myacin directions > indicate it's safe for invertebrates. Does anyone have experience with > this...If so, what about the Cory and the Pleco? > > Or, conversely, should I take the one sick fish out of the main tank, > and treat him along with the platys in the hospital tank and hope I > have caught the infection early. I know I can treat with both Mycacin > and CopperSafe. I know this raises all sorts of questions, like I may > infect my hospital tank with Ick....and if I later have to treat the > main tank, I have no place to put my friends the snails, and I'll end > up with two tanks that have been treated with copper. > > Am I making sense? Just need to figure out best way to deal with the > illness and the invertebrates.. > > Advice needed badly. > > Thanks > > alina > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081115-1, 11/15/2008 Tested on: 11/16/2008 7:31:09 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081115-1, 11/15/2008 Tested on: 11/16/2008 9:29:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33110	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency

Apple/Mystery snails have a breathing tube and lung so they can breathe from the surface but you should remove enough of their tank water... maybe into empty water bottles?... to use for daily PWC's on their smaller temporary housing... to keep the water quality in good condition. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 7:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ick emergency How long can my snails live in this third container? I don't have any thing that can provide filtration or oxygen (just my two filter mechanisms on the 10-gal, and the main tank). And if the Cory is affected? Take the chance and mover her to the quarantine tank? I have aquarium salt on hand..... Thanks.. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Alina, > > No need to panic. Start by raising the temperature of your main tank. Your goal is 84^oF. Move your snails to a third container with some tank water in it. Add about 1 teaspoon per gallon of salt to your ich tank. If you do not happen to have kosher or marine salt on hand, use table salt. You can go to the store in the morning and get some kosher salt or canning salt. Keep your eye on the cory and pleco. The cory can be sensitive to salt. The pleco may be also, not knowing its species or origin. If they look good, increase the salt by adding another 1/2 teaspoon per gallon tomorrow and continue to do so, so long as they look to be unaffected by the salt concentration., until you reach a level of 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > The period of treatment should last 7-10 days. Once you notice no more cysts on the fish for three days, do a water change and start to reduce the temperature back to its normal range. Do the temperature reduction over several days. > > Here is what is happening. The cysts on your gourami will burst, releasing the eggs of the parasite, which will float to the bottom of the tank. The heat speeds up the life cycle of this parasite. After a day or so, the eggs will hatch and the parasites will start looking for a new host. This is when they are vulnerable to the treatment. The salt will kill them. However, some will still find a host before death, where the cycle will begin anew. The salt will also have the effect of increasing the production of slime on the fish's bodies. This will also help them from becoming affected by the next generation of ich. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick emergency > > > Help. > > It's not just raining, it's pouring. Let me set the scene. My > hospital/quarantine tank has two platys that are sick with some sort > of fungus. I started treating with Pimafix but today I started them on > Myacin. > > Then, in my main tank (a 38g) there is a gold gourami that has what > appears to be ick. His fins have these little spots and he looks > salted. Everyone else in the tank seems to be fine. > > I have invertebrates in that main tank, two snails. I also have a Cory > and a mini Pleco. > > The rest are platys, guppies, mollies, tetras (several --neons, red > eyes); and two live plants. Water wysteria. > > Levels are all in good ranges. > > My question is: Should I remove the two snails to the hospital tank so > that I can treat the main tank with CopperSAfe? The Myacin directions > indicate it's safe for invertebrates. Does anyone have experience with > this...If so, what about the Cory and the Pleco? > > Or, conversely, should I take the one sick fish out of the main tank, > and treat him along with the platys in the hospital tank and hope I > have caught the infection early. I know I can treat with both Mycacin > and CopperSafe. I know this raises all sorts of questions, like I may > infect my hospital tank with Ick....and if I later have to treat the > main tank, I have no place to put my friends the snails, and I'll end > up with two tanks that have been treated with copper. > > Am I making sense? Just need to figure out best way to deal with the > illness and the invertebrates.. > > Advice needed badly. > > Thanks > > alina > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081115-1, 11/15/2008 Tested on: 11/16/2008 7:31:07 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081115-1, 11/15/2008 Tested on: 11/16/2008 9:33:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33111	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency

If temp is going to be a problem, you can float the jar in one of your tanks, this will keep them warmer. I would put a lid of some sort on it, so the snails can't get out and into the medicated tank. A fruit jar/ canning jar would work with cheese cloth or plastic screen under the screw ring of a 2 part lid. A string tied around the mouth of the jar and weighted (over the lip of the tank, hanging on the outside) will keep it from floating away. Depending on the size of your container, it will displace some water, making it look like there is more to treat. Laura in KY In a message dated 11/16/2008 9:33:22 AM Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Apple/Mystery snails have a breathing tube and lung so they can breathe from the surface but you should remove enough of their tank water... maybe into empty water bottles?... to use for daily PWC's on their smaller temporary housing... to keep the water quality in good condition. **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33112	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants

Isolate them just as you would any other new addition. Do lots of PWC's, keep an eye out for any bugs or larvae. Give them plenty of light. You will know when to put em in your tank :) Laura in KY In a message dated 11/16/2008 7:53:19 AM Central Standard Time, greychildren@... writes: Btw guys i was looking in the fresh water canal next to my home and i saw some Anubias and java moss but i don't know if i cant bring them into my tank. i fear spreading diseases and parasites. Is there any treatment i can give those plants so i can put em in my tank? **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33113	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants

I’d say you are going to have to decide between the clowns and the swords. I don’t have mine yet, but hopefully it will regrow once the clowns are gone? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Clown loaches eating my plants Donna so what should i do? and the weather outside is warmer that inside my home sense i live in south florida and i don't use a water heater in my tanks --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > If you've got something eating your plants, shouldn't you solve that problem > before introducing more plants? > > > > Outdoor plants will come with diseases and parasites as you suspect. In > addition, they are acclimated to a colder habitat than your tank. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown loaches eating my plants > > > > Hey guys > > I have an issue with my clown loaches there killing my amazon sword > plants.. the plants look like i had caterpillar eating them. is there > anything i can do to stop them? or are my amazon dead in the water? > > My budget has gone down the tube.. if you guys have any plants to > share i will pay fro shipping. > > Btw guys i was looking in the fresh water canal next to my home and i > saw some Anubias and java moss but i don't know if i cant bring them > into my tank. i fear spreading diseases and parasites. Is there any > treatment i can give those plants so i can put em in my tank? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33114	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Ick emergency

Indefinitely, I would think, if you do a daily PWC and feed them some lettuce or similar. Perhaps someone who does keep snails, on purpose, as a part of their hobby, can give you a definitive answer on this. So long as the cory is not showing any signs of infection, I'd take the chance on moving him. The other option would be to do a water change to lower the salt concentration, which would lengthen the time of treatment for the whole tank. Use of carbon has no affect on the salt concentration, to answer you separate question. However, there is no real good reason to be using carbon unless you are attempting to remove a medication or other substance for which carbon can be used as a removal agent. The use of carbon in filtration is often overstated, and serves as another profit maker for the filter manufacturers. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ick emergency How long can my snails live in this third container? I don't have any thing that can provide filtration or oxygen (just my two filter mechanisms on the 10-gal, and the main tank). And if the Cory is affected? Take the chance and mover her to the quarantine tank? I have aquarium salt on hand..... Thanks.. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Alina, > > No need to panic. Start by raising the temperature of your main tank. Your goal is 84^oF. Move your snails to a third container with some tank water in it. Add about 1 teaspoon per gallon of salt to your ich tank. If you do not happen to have kosher or marine salt on hand, use table salt. You can go to the store in the morning and get some kosher salt or canning salt. Keep your eye on the cory and pleco. The cory can be sensitive to salt. The pleco may be also, not knowing its species or origin. If they look good, increase the salt by adding another 1/2 teaspoon per gallon tomorrow and continue to do so, so long as they look to be unaffected by the salt concentration., until you reach a level of 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > The period of treatment should last 7-10 days. Once you notice no more cysts on the fish for three days, do a water change and start to reduce the temperature back to its normal range. Do the temperature reduction over several days. > > Here is what is happening. The cysts on your gourami will burst, releasing the eggs of the parasite, which will float to the bottom of the tank. The heat speeds up the life cycle of this parasite. After a day or so, the eggs will hatch and the parasites will start looking for a new host. This is when they are vulnerable to the treatment. The salt will kill them. However, some will still find a host before death, where the cycle will begin anew. The salt will also have the effect of increasing the production of slime on the fish's bodies. This will also help them from becoming affected by the next generation of ich. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick emergency > > > Help. > > It's not just raining, it's pouring. Let me set the scene. My > hospital/quarantine tank has two platys that are sick with some sort > of fungus. I started treating with Pimafix but today I started them > on Myacin. > > Then, in my main tank (a 38g) there is a gold gourami that has what > appears to be ick. His fins have these little spots and he looks > salted. Everyone else in the tank seems to be fine. > > I have invertebrates in that main tank, two snails. I also have a > Cory and a mini Pleco. > > The rest are platys, guppies, mollies, tetras (several --neons, red > eyes); and two live plants. Water wysteria. > > Levels are all in good ranges. > > My question is: Should I remove the two snails to the hospital tank > so that I can treat the main tank with CopperSAfe? The Myacin > directions indicate it's safe for invertebrates. Does anyone have > experience with this...If so, what about the Cory and the Pleco? > > Or, conversely, should I take the one sick fish out of the main tank, > and treat him along with the platys in the hospital tank and hope I > have caught the infection early. I know I can treat with both Mycacin > and CopperSafe. I know this raises all sorts of questions, like I may > infect my hospital tank with Ick....and if I later have to treat the > main tank, I have no place to put my friends the snails, and I'll end > up with two tanks that have been treated with copper. > > Am I making sense? Just need to figure out best way to deal with the > illness and the invertebrates.. > > Advice needed badly. > > Thanks > > alina >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33115	From: Scott Jackson	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Decapsulated Brine Shrmp

Is decapsulating brine shrimp necessary when using them for feed for fry?  I have read conflicting info on the necessity of this.      If you separate the hatched brine shrimp from the unhatched eggs and shells would this be just as good as decapsulating?   Thanks,   Scott [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33116	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: How Africa's honeybees bees are saving fish

Here is an article I just ran across on "Science in Africa--Africa's First On-Line Science Magazine". It is a brief article, and does not really give us a lot of information, about the use of propolis, found in bee hives, in aquaculture. It may be interesting to follow up on this article. http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2008/october/propolis.htm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33117	From: Lisa	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: It's here!

I have my tank! Finally! Okay. I'm 4"10 and when the tank is standing on its side, it reaches the height of my hip. It's a 22gal long, as i said in my earlier posts. I have to get it into the bath to wash it out before i start to set it up. I have the white substrate all ready to go, i just need to buy more silk, and maybe plastic plants. I have the gargoyle which is in my photo album (I think this will be the main focal point in the centre of the tank), as well as a hollow log which i will use, and maybe my crocodile skull. I will get a pic of the tank up in my album soon too. Here is the plan, which my LFS assures me is compleatly doable. 1 - 2 bala sharks or RTBS 1 - 2 Dwarf Gorami. 4 - 5 platties 4 - 5 Mollies 2 - 4 albino or peppered cory cats Maybe some black skirt tetras or a Khuli loach too. Not sure on them yet. Then once it's all set up, filter, heater, gravel, decorations and plants etc...i will fishless cycle for 4 - 5 weeks before i add the fishies. Oh i'm so excited! (Does happy dance) My boyfriend's even offered to by me fish! LoL Lisa (Australia)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33118	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

Are you talking about having all these fish in together? If so the balas by themselves are going to be way too big for a 22 gal even if it is a long. I would seriously concider all of these fishes maximum size and if they exceed 22 inches when you add it up. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:32:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] It's here! I have my tank! Finally! Okay. I'm 4"10 and when the tank is standing on its side, it reaches the height of my hip. It's a 22gal long, as i said in my earlier posts. I have to get it into the bath to wash it out before i start to set it up. I have the white substrate all ready to go, i just need to buy more silk, and maybe plastic plants. I have the gargoyle which is in my photo album (I think this will be the main focal point in the centre of the tank), as well as a hollow log which i will use, and maybe my crocodile skull. I will get a pic of the tank up in my album soon too. Here is the plan, which my LFS assures me is compleatly doable. 1 - 2 bala sharks or RTBS 1 - 2 Dwarf Gorami. 4 - 5 platties 4 - 5 Mollies 2 - 4 albino or peppered cory cats Maybe some black skirt tetras or a Khuli loach too. Not sure on them yet. Then once it's all set up, filter, heater, gravel, decorations and plants etc...i will fishless cycle for 4 - 5 weeks before i add the fishies. Oh i'm so excited! (Does happy dance) My boyfriend's even offered to by me fish! LoL Lisa (Australia) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33119	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: Decapsulated Brine Shrimp

It's not necessary but some say it makes for a better hatch and better meal. See these articles.. and while at the UFL site, check out all their other GREAT stuff on fish keeping. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA023 http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/month.200810/msg00164.html http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/What-are-decapsulated-brine-shrimp-eggs-c12 0.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Jackson Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Decapsulated Brine Shrimp Is decapsulating brine shrimp necessary when using them for feed for fry? I have read conflicting info on the necessity of this. If you separate the hatched brine shrimp from the unhatched eggs and shells would this be just as good as decapsulating? Thanks, Scott [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/16/2008 9:48:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33120	From: Lisa	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

I did. And my LFS says it's fine. I cant help but think that every time i post something here, all of you are trying to dampen my sprits about setting up a tank. I've done heaps of research on each species, and yes, i know how big the bala sharks can get. I've been into my LFS hundreds of times. And i always ask if this list of fish is okay. Not once have they said otherwise. And i choose to believe that because it's what they do for a living, they know what they're talking about. I trust them. The other fish, tetra's and platties etc, are not THAT big, nor will they get that big that i'd have cause for concern for their wellfare. This tank is bigger then i think a lot of you realize. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, allie1068@... wrote: > > Are you talking about having all these fish in together?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

Lisa, Nobody is trying to dampen your spirits... we're trying to keep them from getting dampened six months or a year or two from now when your Bala Sharks got much too large for your tank and you will begin to have many water quality issues and health issues due to excessive stress from all of the fish being kept in an undersized tank. For your tank, you want to stick with fish that stay under 3" to 4" in size.. like most of your other fish but Bala Sharks grow to over 12" and up to 16" and need at least a 6' long tank. Your tank is only half your size and you said you are only 4'10" so you would need a tank at least a foot longer than you for the Bala Sharks. Here are a couple of profiles on them. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Balantiocheilus_melanopterus.html http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/sharkfish/balashark.php http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile21.html All of these profiles say you need at least a 48" tank for juveniles and a 72" (6') tank for adults.. and these are minimum recommendations. I'm sorry.. but your LFS is looking to sell you fish and if they die, they'll sell you more fish.. and if those die, they'll sell you more fish. We are trying to save your current fish and do not have any financial interest in whether you succeed or fail in the hobby. Ask them the last time they kept a fish in the store for 10 years.. 20 years.. or more? They haven't. Their goal is to get them in as juvi's, sell them and sell you some more when the first ones they sold you die. Now, not all LFS have this mindset but if yours is giving you such bad advice, they obviously do have a fish-killing mindset. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's here! I did. And my LFS says it's fine. I cant help but think that every time i post something here, all of you are trying to dampen my sprits about setting up a tank. I've done heaps of research on each species, and yes, i know how big the bala sharks can get. I've been into my LFS hundreds of times. And i always ask if this list of fish is okay. Not once have they said otherwise. And i choose to believe that because it's what they do for a living, they know what they're talking about. I trust them. The other fish, tetra's and platties etc, are not THAT big, nor will they get that big that i'd have cause for concern for their wellfare. This tank is bigger then i think a lot of you realize. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , allie1068@... wrote: > > Are you talking about having all these fish in together? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/16/2008 10:12:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33122	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

I do that for a living as well actualy I'm the manager in my major city and have developed a very good reputation for myself in my district. I wasn't trying to dampen your spirits by any means. I'm just making sure that you know. My balas got 11 inches each in my 55 and that was nowhere enough room for them. One could barely turn around! I may not know fancy things but I know from expierence and I've made many mistakes and only wish for others to succeed. I have 2 55s a 37 tall a 5 gal a 20 and a 10 I've had all the fish you have listed. The two balas combined make 24 inches. They are shouling fish and I've had and seen mollies 3 to 4 inches and platies about 2 to 3 inches. I'm only trying to help so that you succeed and keep healthy fish and avoid making mistakes that I myself have made. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 03:52:12 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's here! I did. And my LFS says it's fine. I cant help but think that every time i post something here, all of you are trying to dampen my sprits about setting up a tank. I've done heaps of research on each species, and yes, i know how big the bala sharks can get. I've been into my LFS hundreds of times. And i always ask if this list of fish is okay. Not once have they said otherwise. And i choose to believe that because it's what they do for a living, they know what they're talking about. I trust them. The other fish, tetra's and platties etc, are not THAT big, nor will they get that big that i'd have cause for concern for their wellfare. This tank is bigger then i think a lot of you realize. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, allie1068@... wrote: > > Are you talking about having all these fish in together? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33123	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

Lisa, We are not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, just trying to make you a successful fish keeper in spite of your enthusiasm! <g>. Even if y oar talking in imperial gallons, which are slightly larger than US gallons, you do not have enough room for all the fish you intend to place in the tank. 22 gallons (UK) converts to about 26.4 gallons (US). The closest I could find to that size from Glass Cages is a 27 gallon tank (36 x 12½ x 13 inches (US)). The bala shark you mentioned will grow to at least 13" SL, too large, even by itself, for that sized tank. If by RTBS, you are referring to _Epalzeorhynchos bicolor_, then one would be OK since it only grows to about 4" SL. I would also question your choice of mollies, depending on species/variety. Some of the mollies also grow quite large, and may not be suitable in the number you propose. You will probably find you LFS quite agreeable to any number of fish you place in that tank--more short term profit for them, plus, when the fish become stressed and ill, there is more stuff they will be willing to sell to "rectify" the situation. They may point out how many fish they keep in their tanks, but keep in mind, they are heavily stocked like that for a short period, the tanks are highly filtered, and are supplied a lot of aeration. Also remember, they have a whole new shipment arriving in a few days to a week to replace those that have been sold or lost due to the stress of shipping and lack of water changes during that period. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's here! I did. And my LFS says it's fine. I cant help but think that every time i post something here, all of you are trying to dampen my sprits about setting up a tank. I've done heaps of research on each species, and yes, i know how big the bala sharks can get. I've been into my LFS hundreds of times. And i always ask if this list of fish is okay. Not once have they said otherwise. And i choose to believe that because it's what they do for a living, they know what they're talking about. I trust them. The other fish, tetra's and platties etc, are not THAT big, nor will they get that big that i'd have cause for concern for their wellfare. This tank is bigger then i think a lot of you realize. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, allie1068@... wrote: > > Are you talking about having all these fish in together?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33124	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: was- It's here! now Mollies

Wow! Those are some BIG mollies!!! My 2 largest mollies are a male orange veil tail and a white female. I thought they were really big, and they are just creeping up on the 3 inch mark, including the tails. The female, before she gives birth, looks like she is going to explode babies everywhere for the last week and a half of pregnancy. The silver molly turned white, but she is pretty. The dalmation is almost all black now. The black female is just a pretty jet black. Any molly experts out there? The pet store guy (petSmart- I don't take much stock in info from them) said that a while back they had gotten in some red and white dalmation mollies. Anyone heard of them? Also, the dalmations, some seem to get spots quickly (fry- at about 2 weeks) some are 2 months old before I notice a spot on them. I have some 'muddy' babies, they just look greyish, but I noticed some black spots today on a few. The first batch of baby black mollies are half the size of the adults, and I really think a few have given birth already. All of my babies have been female, lol, so when I bought a male, I picked out the orange veil tail. Had no heater all summer, no AC back there (hallway) water was around 80 F. He seems to have lost some color. Tank size- 55 gallon, but has about 30 gallons of water in it, salt water tank, I needed a safe haven for my marine hermit crabs :) I am feeding soft sinking krill and spirulina, HBH makes it. The mollies prefer the krill (brown) to the spirulina (dark green). Laura in KY In a message dated 11/16/2008 10:47:59 PM Central Standard Time, allie1068@... writes: I've had and seen mollies 3 to 4 inches **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33125	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: was- It's here! now Mollies

Yes I have seen them before they aren't really red like the velvet wag sword tails they are more of a deep orange like most red Mickey mouse platies become with white spots. They're pretty neat. What's so wrong with petSmart if I may ask? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: AwlArtist@... Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:33:41 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] was- It's here! now Mollies Wow! Those are some BIG mollies!!! My 2 largest mollies are a male orange veil tail and a white female. I thought they were really big, and they are just creeping up on the 3 inch mark, including the tails. The female, before she gives birth, looks like she is going to explode babies everywhere for the last week and a half of pregnancy. The silver molly turned white, but she is pretty. The dalmation is almost all black now. The black female is just a pretty jet black. Any molly experts out there? The pet store guy (petSmart- I don't take much stock in info from them) said that a while back they had gotten in some red and white dalmation mollies. Anyone heard of them? Also, the dalmations, some seem to get spots quickly (fry- at about 2 weeks) some are 2 months old before I notice a spot on them. I have some 'muddy' babies, they just look greyish, but I noticed some black spots today on a few. The first batch of baby black mollies are half the size of the adults, and I really think a few have given birth already. All of my babies have been female, lol, so when I bought a male, I picked out the orange veil tail. Had no heater all summer, no AC back there (hallway) water was around 80 F. He seems to have lost some color. Tank size- 55 gallon, but has about 30 gallons of water in it, salt water tank, I needed a safe haven for my marine hermit crabs :) I am feeding soft sinking krill and spirulina, HBH makes it. The mollies prefer the krill (brown) to the spirulina (dark green). Laura in KY In a message dated 11/16/2008 10:47:59 PM Central Standard Time, allie1068@... writes: I've had and seen mollies 3 to 4 inches **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33126	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2008
Subject: Re: was- It's here! now Mollies

Whats wrong with them? they take abysmal care of their hermit crabs for one, and my other big peeve with them is that they tell you to not put goldfish in with tropicals, then they do it. They clain its so the goldfish eat the snails, but, week after week, the goldfish are still there, in conditions that are less than ideal for them. Laura In a message dated 11/17/2008 12:03:06 AM Central Standard Time, allie1068@... writes: What's so wrong with petSmart if I may ask? **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33127	From: Lisa	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

I just added a pic of my tank. Sorry for the slight reflection, but you get the idea. Maybe I should stick with my original idea of a couple of Axilotals. -Sighs- Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33128	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: was- It's here! now Mollies

The care they give I believe varies between stores trust me not all aquatic departments are run the same between petSmart stores. And as Lenny had said earlier they are only there temp and they have huge filtration statems that do PWC in small amounts while adding bacteria enduced water to the system there are fluidized beds O2 reactors temp probes uv sterilizers and polishing sponges. But this is only as good as the maint and upkeep they do on their actual tanks. That's a shame that you have had bad expirences with them. Everyone is entitled their opinion and that's fine I just don't want you to believe every petSmart is like that. Up here its the best petstore you'll find in the state. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: AwlArtist@... Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:06:28 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] was- It's here! now Mollies Whats wrong with them? they take abysmal care of their hermit crabs for one, and my other big peeve with them is that they tell you to not put goldfish in with tropicals, then they do it. They clain its so the goldfish eat the snails, but, week after week, the goldfish are still there, in conditions that are less than ideal for them. Laura In a message dated 11/17/2008 12:03:06 AM Central Standard Time, allie1068@... writes: What's so wrong with petSmart if I may ask? **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33129	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: was- It's here! now Mollies

Depending on the species, mollies can go to 6" as I recall. The mollies seen in aquarium stores are often hybrids and varieties of various mollies, and, as has been mentioned here before, varieties and hybrids seldom reach the size potential of the stock they were bred from. Keep in mind, that there are several species of mollies, and we only see a few in the stores. The adult size of these fish will range from about 2" to the near 6" I mentioned above. Most aquarium forms of mollies are derived from three species, _Poecilia latipinna_, _P. petenensis_, _P. velifera_, and _P. sphenops_ which all fall into the 3-4" size range. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@... Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] was- It's here! now Mollies Wow! Those are some BIG mollies!!! My 2 largest mollies are a male orange veil tail and a white female. I thought they were really big, and they are just creeping up on the 3 inch mark, including the tails. The female, before she gives birth, looks like she is going to explode babies everywhere for the last week and a half of pregnancy. The silver molly turned white, but she is pretty. The dalmation is almost all black now. The black female is just a pretty jet black. Any molly experts out there? The pet store guy (petSmart- I don't take much stock in info from them) said that a while back they had gotten in some red and white dalmation mollies. Anyone heard of them? Also, the dalmations, some seem to get spots quickly (fry- at about 2 weeks) some are 2 months old before I notice a spot on them. I have some 'muddy' babies, they just look greyish, but I noticed some black spots today on a few. The first batch of baby black mollies are half the size of the adults, and I really think a few have given birth already. All of my babies have been female, lol, so when I bought a male, I picked out the orange veil tail. Had no heater all summer, no AC back there (hallway) water was around 80 F. He seems to have lost some color. Tank size- 55 gallon, but has about 30 gallons of water in it, salt water tank, I needed a safe haven for my marine hermit crabs :) I am feeding soft sinking krill and spirulina, HBH makes it. The mollies prefer the krill (brown) to the spirulina (dark green). Laura in KY In a message dated 11/16/2008 10:47:59 PM Central Standard Time, allie1068@... writes: I've had and seen mollies 3 to 4 inches **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33130	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: How Africa's honeybees bees are saving fish

BBut they have to figure out the best way to dose the fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] How Africa's honeybees bees are saving fish Here is an article I just ran across on "Science in Africa--Africa's First On-Line Science Magazine". It is a brief article, and does not really give us a lot of information, about the use of propolis, found in bee hives, in aquaculture. It may be interesting to follow up on this article. http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2008/october/propolis.htm \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33131	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

Hi Lisa, � I doubt if ANYONE on this list is trying to dampen your sprits but they don�t want you hurt later either! As Lenny just posted, these fish get big.� What happens when you have any large fish in with small fish?� In just a bit, you have no more small fish! � These folks can see down range pretty far; it�s like a �Been There Done That� type of thing. Believe me, they know! Although I don�t know you or your LPS, I�d bet anything these folks here on this list know more.� Why? � Trying thinking of used cars for a minute.� What�s the purpose? To sell used cars.� How do they make money?� Selling more used cars (fish).� The faster they get them out the door the more money they make. It�s a simple matter of turn-around time.� While this does not sound very pleasant for the fish it�s the truth.� Simply put it�s like the people who have a beautiful tank full of live bears and plants; they walk into the LPS and ask �What about this cute little red fish swimming by himself called �Oscar�!�� NOT!� � I did it once.� How long does a tank with platy�s and guppies and some neon�s last with Mr. Oscar?� About 4 months!� Then one day Mr. Oscar suddenly has plenty of swimming room! � Bill --- On Sun, 11/16/08, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's here! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 16, 2008, 10:52 PM I did. And my LFS says it's fine. I cant help but think that every time i post something here, all of you are trying to dampen my sprits about setting up a tank. I've done heaps of research on each species, and yes, i know how big the bala sharks can get. I've been into my LFS hundreds of times. And i always ask if this list of fish is okay. Not once have they said otherwise. And i choose to believe that because it's what they do for a living, they know what they're talking about. I trust them. The other fish, tetra's and platties etc, are not THAT big, nor will they get that big that i'd have cause for concern for their wellfare. This tank is bigger then i think a lot of you realize. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, allie1068@.. . wrote: > > Are you talking about having all these fish in together? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33132	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Mail?

Must be a slow mail day?   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33133	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Mail?

LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@... writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33134	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)

Laura, While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive species. Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming out. http://www.thekrib.com/Marine/bristle.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@... Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:21:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33135	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)

Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rs/index.php Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past articles. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/index.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Laura, While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive species. Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming out. http://www.thekrib.com/Marine/bristle.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@... Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:21:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:28:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33136	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)

Very nice Lenny, thanks! ill have to hold onto this for the day in the future when i am well enough off to try my hand at salt tanks. If that day should come ill hope to have this bookmark still. May even consider putting it in the Yahoo group links section. On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started > reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. > http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rs/index.php > > Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about > "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions > come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past > articles. > http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/index.php > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...<goldlenny%40gmail.com> > ] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Laura, > > While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, > flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing > them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your > garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they > can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive > species. > Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually > takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article > and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are > several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming > out. > http://www.thekrib.com/Marine/bristle.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of AwlArtist@... <AwlArtist%40aol.com> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? > > LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire > worms > out of my 75 gal salt water tank. > They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge > of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to > grab. > I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the > shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. > I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. > I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? > Laura in KY > > In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, > warrenprint@... <warrenprint%40yahoo.com> <mailto: > warrenprint%40yahoo.com <warrenprint%2540yahoo.com>> writes: > > Must be a slow mail day? > > Bill > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:21:54 > PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 > Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:28:59 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33137	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

Lisa, That's a nice tank. Pretty cool that it levitates like that <g>. Does it settle down when it's full of water? But seriously, I've never seen one with black trim on the corners. Is that just packing material, or is it supposed to stay? Linda Lisa wrote: > I just added a pic of my tank. Sorry for the slight reflection, but you > get the idea. Maybe I should stick with my original idea of a couple of > Axilotals. > -Sighs- > > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33138	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)

Hi,   I followed Len's link here and found a bit more.   If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out!   http://www.prtc.net/~luisgon/luisgo125.htm   click on Live Cam----------and just enjoy!   Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past articles. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Laura, While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive species. Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming out.. http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab.. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:21:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:28:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33139	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)

I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have to knock-out your wife first? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Hi, I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! http://www.prtc.net/~luisgon/luisgo125.htm <http://www.prtc.net/~luisgon/luisgo125.htm> click on Live Cam----------and just enjoy! Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past articles. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Laura, While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive species. Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming out.. http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab.. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:21:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:28:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:12:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:21:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33140	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)

Ya--------------right!   I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page.  My mistake. Some good news?  Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????????????? Bad news?  Yes! Water doctoring failed!  Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph is on the going down side.  Next trick?  Coming up with another PWC in a day or so.  What are we going to do?  Only one thing.  We are going to temper the water to tank temperature and that's it.  Get your fingers crossed and lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either!  There's more to talk about on water but.   Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have to knock-out your wife first? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Hi, I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past articles. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Laura, While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive species. Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming out.. http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab.. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:21:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 12:28:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:12:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:21:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33141	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor

Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's ecology between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down between PWC's. What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. Have you seen any "snow" in your tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Ya--------------right! I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake. Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????????????? Bad news? Yes! Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph is on the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a day or so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to temper the water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers crossed and lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more to talk about on water but. Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have to knock-out your wife first? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Hi, I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past articles. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Laura, While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive species. Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming out.. http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab.. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:49:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33142	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Autopsy of the fish with the spots

My flame tetra with the swelling and the funny spots on its sides passed a long column of thick black stool through a newly created hole in the swelling on its lower right side. Stool seemed to pass straight downward from stomach. After this the black spots were much smaller and the fish acted normal though grouchy. Fish must have had a blocked intestine. I didn't think it could survive a perforated stomach and perforated skin, so this morning I euthanized it and did an autopsy. The organs looked pretty normal except for the mangled remains of teh stomach, and the liver, which was too small, and brown. Fish ate a diet of omnivorous pellets. I did one slide from the liver, and another from a general mash made of its intestines and other organs mixed in with them. Magnifying glass found no sign of anything alive, and nothing moved on any of the slides - no flagellates and seemingly no worms. The only other strange thing I noticed was that on the intact side of the fish, the dark spots turned out to be holes in the muscle of the fish, the exact size and location of those two spots. These holes existed before I opened up the fish and were the source of the black spot atleast on that side of its body. I repeat that the black spots appeared suddenly several days ago. My flame tetras do not have any spots or stripes behind their gills. I took alot of photos of some strange things. Some or most may be bubbles or fat globs, but many of them seemed to have internal structure. Probably teh most interesting are 2845 through 2848. Tehre were alot of rod-like things in the liver that were way too big to be bacteria and were not fungus. Some may be blood cells. Most views are 400x. Some are 100x. The last of them were done with methylene blue, which could be pulled on some of my slides but not all of them. (I added a drop of dechlorinated tap water to each of my smears.) The fish probably did have an infection by the time I did the autopsy. It may or may not have ahd one to begin with. If there are fat globs in the liver, are my fish developing fatty liver disease? The liver was dark brown, not light yellow. http://pets.webshots.com/album/568735069KEjdGu It is possible to get any given photo its original size by clicking on it and then on the button that appears in the lower right hand corner when you mouse over it. Yours, Dora Smith Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33143	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: autopsy of my fish with the spots

Much of this is a repost; I left the questions off the end. My flame tetra with the swelling and the funny spots on its sides passed a long column of thick black stool through a newly created hole in the swelling on its lower right side. Stool seemed to pass straight downward from stomach. After this the black spots were much smaller and the fish acted normal though grouchy. Fish must have had a blocked intestine. I didn't think it could survive a perforated stomach and perforated skin, so this morning I euthanized it and did an autopsy. The organs looked pretty normal except for the mangled remains of teh stomach, and the liver, which was too small, and brown. Fish ate a diet of omnivorous pellets. I did one slide from the liver, and another from a general mash made of its intestines and other organs mixed in with them. Magnifying glass found no sign of anything alive, and nothing moved on any of the slides - no flagellates and seemingly no worms. The only other strange thing I noticed was that on the intact side of the fish, the dark spots turned out to be holes in the muscle of the fish, the exact size and location of those two spots. These holes existed before I opened up the fish and were the source of the black spot atleast on that side of its body. I repeat that the black spots appeared suddenly several days ago. My flame tetras do not have any spots or stripes behind their gills. I took alot of photos of some strange things. Some or most may be bubbles or fat globs, but many of them seemed to have internal structure. Probably teh most interesting are 2845 through 2848. Tehre were alot of rod-like things in the liver that were way too big to be bacteria and were not fungus. Some may be blood cells. Most views are 400x. Some are 100x. The last of them were done with methylene blue, which could be pulled on some of my slides but not all of them. (I added a drop of dechlorinated tap water to each of my smears.) The fish probably did have an infection by the time I did the autopsy. It may or may not have ahd one to begin with. If there are fat globs in the liver, are my fish developing fatty liver disease? The liver was dark brown, not light yellow. http://pets.webshots.com/album/568735069KEjdGu It is possible to get any given photo its original size by clicking on it and then on the button that appears in the lower right hand corner when you mouse over it. Does anyone recognize anything pathological on the slides? Should I give my other fish anti-parasite medicine anyhow, or wait? The other fish seem fine. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33144	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)

Do all saltwater tanks have mostly rock/coral and just a little swimming room for fish? That tank seems to be mostly rock and coral and just a few fish ;) But it's definately beautiful. Can't wait to get my 125 gallon set up this coming weekend, I get to pick it up on friday :) Made room for it in the living room yesterday, hehe/ Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is > that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to > their > tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. > > So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you > have > to knock-out your wife first? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Hi, > > I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. > > If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! > > http://www.prtc.net/~luisgon/luisgo125.htm > <http://www.prtc.net/%7Eluisgon/luisgo125.htm> > <http://www.prtc.net/~luisgon/luisgo125.htm > <http://www.prtc.net/%7Eluisgon/luisgo125.htm>> > > click on Live Cam----------and just enjoy! > > Bill > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM > > Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started > reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php > > Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about > "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions > come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past > articles. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Laura, > > While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, > flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. > Crushing > them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your > garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they > can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive > species. > Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually > takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini > article > and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are > several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming > out.. > http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? > > LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire > worms > out of my 75 gal salt water tank. > They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge > of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to > grab.. > I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the > shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. > I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. > I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? > Laura in KY > > In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, > warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: > > Must be a slow mail day? > > Bill > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 > 12:21:54 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 > 12:28:59 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 > Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:12:10 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 > Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:21:02 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33145	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: help betta on his way out:

I changed my bettas tank yesterday, same as always except my husband accidentally dropped some cooking oil in his bowl that he was in. Got him out in one heck of a hurry, cleaned bowl returned him to it. Then got tank done and put him in. He ate a little last night and now today he is laying on bottom sideways breathing very fast. When I went near he bolted like a nutcase around his tank. I realize he is prob done for and a hundred things could be wrong with him but just thought I'd share and see if anyone could help. gotten to like the little guy :( thanks Erin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)

Yeah.. unlike us FW fish keepers who try to... and sometimes successfully cram a lake's worth of fish into our relatively small tanks, SW fish are not nearly as tolerant of water quality issues and reefs are even less tolerant than the fish... so if they tried to cram the same kinds of bioloads that we do, they'd kill their fish, coral, etc. For FW tanks, we regularly see recommendations to not let the nitrates get over 40ppm or even as low as 20ppm... but the FW fish will tolerate much higher levels.. although not good for them... but in SW reef tanks, those kinds of nitrate levels would be very stressful to the fish and would kill off the reef. Not all SW tanks are reef tanks. In the following snip, you'll see them referencing 0.1ppm to 0.5ppm.. around 1/100th of the levels we commonly see in our FW tanks. Here's a snip from... http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm Nitrate in the Ocean Nitrogen takes many forms in the ocean,1 one of which is nitrate. Other forms include dinitrogen (N2), ammonia (NH3/NH4+), nitrite (NO2-), and a myriad of nitrogen-containing organic compounds. Of the inorganic species, nitrate is often, but not always the highest in concentration. Concentrations in the ocean vary considerably from location to location, and also with depth.2 Surface waters are much lower in concentration due to scavenging by various organisms, and are often less than 0.1 ppm nitrate (not that all concentrations in this article are in ppm nitrate ion, and not in ppm nitrate nitrogen). Deeper waters typically range from 0.5 to 2.5 ppm nitrate. Surface regions where upwelling of deeper water takes place will also have these higher values. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Do all saltwater tanks have mostly rock/coral and just a little swimming room for fish? That tank seems to be mostly rock and coral and just a few fish ;) But it's definately beautiful. Can't wait to get my 125 gallon set up this coming weekend, I get to pick it up on friday :) Made room for it in the living room yesterday, hehe/ Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube > video.... is that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with > live cam's to their tanks before but not on that site.. although it is > a nice tank. > > So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you > have to knock-out your wife first? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > Mail?) > > Hi, > > I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. > > If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! > > http://www.prtc.net/~luisgon/luisgo125.htm > <http://www.prtc.net/~luisgon/luisgo125.htm> > <http://www.prtc.net/%7Eluisgon/luisgo125.htm > <http://www.prtc.net/%7Eluisgon/luisgo125.htm> > > <http://www.prtc.net/~luisgon/luisgo125.htm > <http://www.prtc.net/~luisgon/luisgo125.htm> > <http://www.prtc.net/%7Eluisgon/luisgo125.htm > <http://www.prtc.net/%7Eluisgon/luisgo125.htm> >> > > click on Live Cam----------and just enjoy! > > Bill > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM > > Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started > reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php > > Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine > about "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new > editions come out or you can just browse through all of the current > and past articles. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail. com] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > Mail?) > > Laura, > > While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill > these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. > Crushing > them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in > your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are > dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a > non-native invasive species. > Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib > usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a > mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of > course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new > information coming out.. > http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month > and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? > > LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire > worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. > They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the > edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for > me to grab.. > I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the > shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. > I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. > I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? > Laura in KY > > In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, > warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: > > Must be a slow mail day? > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 2:35:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:

Wow... I'm not sure if even a brief encounter with cooking oil would be very good to a fishes gills and/or labyrinth organ (in the case of your Betta). His rapid respiratory action seems to indicate this as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help betta on his way out: I changed my bettas tank yesterday, same as always except my husband accidentally dropped some cooking oil in his bowl that he was in. Got him out in one heck of a hurry, cleaned bowl returned him to it. Then got tank done and put him in. He ate a little last night and now today he is laying on bottom sideways breathing very fast. When I went near he bolted like a nutcase around his tank. I realize he is prob done for and a hundred things could be wrong with him but just thought I'd share and see if anyone could help. gotten to like the little guy :( thanks Erin _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 2:46:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33148	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor

No snow but windy as the devil!� � No, truth be told, nothing changed in the KH/GH department.� We never got the limestone or anything else and I suppose that's why it dropped.� It would be the devil trying to put it into the filter, not much room and the only recourse would be pieces right in the tank itself.� I think it was Ray that warned me that this would happen.� Not bad, but just enough so you would notice.� I was crazy, trying this out on a tank this small. � I remember about your recommendations on the water itself and trying to change parameters, but I was just hoping to get up out of the cellar with those Ph readings.� But then, you can�t change nature can you?� I want to watch my fish, not play with Test Kits all day and that�s just what I was doing.� I should know better.� Fish will adapt but that high acid makes me think it was even worse. � This kit, or any of them for that matter, aren�t �brain surgery� accurate, so you get what you get, but using the same kit constantly is the only way to set up any kind of a baseline at all.� I�ll probably try this little experiment further down the road with a bigger tank and some buffering in place.� I read and printed those Ph information links as well as the tips on doctoring but hopefully we will be doing a new setup shortly.� I just hope this guy doesn�t way until the snow is flying to finally decide that today�s the day we sell Bill that tank. � Bill � --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:49 PM Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's ecology between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down between PWC's. What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. Have you seen any "snow" in your tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Ya---------- ----right! I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake. Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????? ???????? Bad news? Yes! Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph is on the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a day or so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to temper the water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers crossed and lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more to talk about on water but. Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have to knock-out your wife first? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Hi, I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past articles. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Laura, While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive species. Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming out.. http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab.. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:49:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33149	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor

What are the actual numbers for the pH, GH, KH, etc. How much did the pH drop? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) No snow but windy as the devil! No, truth be told, nothing changed in the KH/GH department. We never got the limestone or anything else and I suppose that's why it dropped. It would be the devil trying to put it into the filter, not much room and the only recourse would be pieces right in the tank itself. I think it was Ray that warned me that this would happen. Not bad, but just enough so you would notice. I was crazy, trying this out on a tank this small. I remember about your recommendations on the water itself and trying to change parameters, but I was just hoping to get up out of the cellar with those Ph readings. But then, you can’t change nature can you? I want to watch my fish, not play with Test Kits all day and that’s just what I was doing. I should know better. Fish will adapt but that high acid makes me think it was even worse. This kit, or any of them for that matter, aren’t “brain surgery” accurate, so you get what you get, but using the same kit constantly is the only way to set up any kind of a baseline at all. I’ll probably try this little experiment further down the road with a bigger tank and some buffering in place. I read and printed those Ph information links as well as the tips on doctoring but hopefully we will be doing a new setup shortly. I just hope this guy doesn’t way until the snow is flying to finally decide that today’s the day we sell Bill that tank. Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:49 PM Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's ecology between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down between PWC's. What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. Have you seen any "snow" in your tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Ya---------- ----right! I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake. Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????? ???????? Bad news? Yes! Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph is on the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a day or so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to temper the water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers crossed and lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more to talk about on water but. Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have to knock-out your wife first? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Hi, I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past articles. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Laura, While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive species. Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming out.. http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab.. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:49:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 2:53:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 2:54:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33150	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?)

Nope, it all depends on what you want your tank to look like, or, probably, more importantly, what requirements the fish have. mine has 6 rocks (4 live rock and 2 from my daughters yard that were bleached, rinsed and sun dried for a few days, rinsed again and put in the tank) and a resin type cave. I also have a green plastic plant, it is now covered in green macro (some type of, I think its really a form of algae, but looks sea weedy, red spongy growth and a red plant life type of thing. The red sponges, they sorta look mushroomy, have also began growing on a couple smaller rocks that I tossed in.) I set it up for the bamboo shark, who likes caves, and will topple rock, so the rocks are not stacked up and cool looking like, say a coral tank.Now that the shark has died... too small of tank is my best guess... I have some 'egg crate' that I am going to make a shelf and set the rock on, the tank will look better and I will be able to do more with it :) SW is cool. I introduced the macro, but the red mushroomy sponges grew on their own, and I put the red plant thing in there. Stuff just grows on its own. I have my own theory that some comes from the salt, but they say it can come from the live rock and live sand, just takes a year or 2 or 3 to grow. I have not noticed anything new in the molly tank, and it has play sand (washed hermit crab sand) non-live rock (more from the yard) plastic plant (from Michaels craft store) but has only been set up for about 6 months. Oh, thanks for the fireworm link... now I know that they are beneficial, I will leave them in peace :) Laura In a message dated 11/17/2008 2:08:34 PM Central Standard Time, amber@... writes: Do all saltwater tanks have mostly rock/coral and just a little swimming room for fish? That tank seems to be mostly rock and coral and just a few fish ;) But it's definately beautiful. Can't wait to get my 125 gallon set up this coming weekend, I get to pick it up on friday :) Made room for it in the living room yesterday, hehe/ Amber **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33151	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor

Ph 6.5� Ammonia 0� Nitrite .3�� GH 1.5� GH1 � Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:54 PM What are the actual numbers for the pH, GH, KH, etc. How much did the pH drop? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) No snow but windy as the devil! No, truth be told, nothing changed in the KH/GH department. We never got the limestone or anything else and I suppose that's why it dropped. It would be the devil trying to put it into the filter, not much room and the only recourse would be pieces right in the tank itself. I think it was Ray that warned me that this would happen. Not bad, but just enough so you would notice. I was crazy, trying this out on a tank this small. I remember about your recommendations on the water itself and trying to change parameters, but I was just hoping to get up out of the cellar with those Ph readings. But then, you can�t change nature can you? I want to watch my fish, not play with Test Kits all day and that�s just what I was doing. I should know better. Fish will adapt but that high acid makes me think it was even worse. This kit, or any of them for that matter, aren�t �brain surgery� accurate, so you get what you get, but using the same kit constantly is the only way to set up any kind of a baseline at all. I�ll probably try this little experiment further down the road with a bigger tank and some buffering in place. I read and printed those Ph information links as well as the tips on doctoring but hopefully we will be doing a new setup shortly. I just hope this guy doesn�t way until the snow is flying to finally decide that today�s the day we sell Bill that tank. Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:49 PM Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's ecology between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down between PWC's. What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. Have you seen any "snow" in your tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Ya---------- ----right! I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake. Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????? ???????? Bad news? Yes! Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph is on the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a day or so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to temper the water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers crossed and lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more to talk about on water but. Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have to knock-out your wife first? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Hi, I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past articles. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Laura, While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive species. Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming out.. http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab.. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:49:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 2:53:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 2:54:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33152	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor

I don't know if this is an option or not, but what about getting a different sand/substrate mix that has a buffering capacity in it? The african mixes say they will buffer into the 8.0 range, but not sure what it would do with such a low PH as yours. There are also plant mixes that are supposed to buffer the PH to 6.5-7 range. I have considered doing the same since my PH sits around 6.2 but wasn't sure if my tank would fluxuate with each water change I do, and since I do 2-3 PWC's a week I didn't want my tank swinging around in the PH department and killing off my fish. But then again I don't even know if this will happen. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Amber bill1433 wrote: > No snow but windy as the devil! > > No, truth be told, nothing changed in the KH/GH department. We never got the limestone or anything else and I suppose that's why it dropped. It would be the devil trying to put it into the filter, not much room and the only recourse would be pieces right in the tank itself. I think it was Ray that warned me that this would happen. Not bad, but just enough so you would notice. I was crazy, trying this out on a tank this small. > > I remember about your recommendations on the water itself and trying to change parameters, but I was just hoping to get up out of the cellar with those Ph readings. But then, you can’t change nature can you? I want to watch my fish, not play with Test Kits all day and that’s just what I was doing. I should know better. Fish will adapt but that high acid makes me think it was even worse. > > This kit, or any of them for that matter, aren’t “brain surgery” accurate, so you get what you get, but using the same kit constantly is the only way to set up any kind of a baseline at all. I’ll probably try this little experiment further down the road with a bigger tank and some buffering in place. I read and printed those Ph information links as well as the tips on doctoring but hopefully we will be doing a new setup shortly. I just hope this guy doesn’t way until the snow is flying to finally decide that today’s the day we sell Bill that tank. > > Bill > > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:49 PM > > > > > > > Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's ecology > between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down > between PWC's. > > What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. > > It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. Have you > seen any "snow" in your tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Ya---------- ----right! > > I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake. > Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????? ???????? > Bad news? Yes! > Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph is on > the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a day or > so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to temper the > water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers crossed and > lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more to talk about on > water but. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM > > I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is > that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their > tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. > > So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have > to knock-out your wife first? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Hi, > > I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. > > If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! > > http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. > net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> > > click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! > > Bill > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM > > Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started > reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php > > Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about > "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions > come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past > articles. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Laura, > > While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, > flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing > them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your > garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they > can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive > species. > Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually > takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article > and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are > several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming > out.. > http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? > > LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms > out of my 75 gal salt water tank. > They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge > of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to > grab.. > I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the > shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. > I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. > I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? > Laura in KY > > In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, > warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: > > Must be a slow mail day? > > Bill > > _ > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 > Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:49:57 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: autopsy of my fish with the spots

Not sure if this will help but I was looking for other info and found this thread on a sick Betta that ended up seeing two different Vets, had surgical procedures, x-rays, ultrasounds, etc... and the OP posted verbatim copies of the medical reports, x-rays and reports, lab results, etc... and ultimately the necropsy report. (BTW.. a fish "autopsy" is called a necropsy. I think autopsy is reserved for us humans). http://aquamaniacs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25332 For anyone else interested in a lot more in-depth health info about our fish, read the above thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] autopsy of my fish with the spots Much of this is a repost; I left the questions off the end. My flame tetra with the swelling and the funny spots on its sides passed a long column of thick black stool through a newly created hole in the swelling on its lower right side. Stool seemed to pass straight downward from stomach. After this the black spots were much smaller and the fish acted normal though grouchy. Fish must have had a blocked intestine. I didn't think it could survive a perforated stomach and perforated skin, so this morning I euthanized it and did an autopsy. The organs looked pretty normal except for the mangled remains of teh stomach, and the liver, which was too small, and brown. Fish ate a diet of omnivorous pellets. I did one slide from the liver, and another from a general mash made of its intestines and other organs mixed in with them. Magnifying glass found no sign of anything alive, and nothing moved on any of the slides - no flagellates and seemingly no worms. The only other strange thing I noticed was that on the intact side of the fish, the dark spots turned out to be holes in the muscle of the fish, the exact size and location of those two spots. These holes existed before I opened up the fish and were the source of the black spot atleast on that side of its body. I repeat that the black spots appeared suddenly several days ago. My flame tetras do not have any spots or stripes behind their gills. I took alot of photos of some strange things. Some or most may be bubbles or fat globs, but many of them seemed to have internal structure. Probably teh most interesting are 2845 through 2848. Tehre were alot of rod-like things in the liver that were way too big to be bacteria and were not fungus. Some may be blood cells. Most views are 400x. Some are 100x. The last of them were done with methylene blue, which could be pulled on some of my slides but not all of them. (I added a drop of dechlorinated tap water to each of my smears.) The fish probably did have an infection by the time I did the autopsy. It may or may not have ahd one to begin with. If there are fat globs in the liver, are my fish developing fatty liver disease? The liver was dark brown, not light yellow. http://pets.webshots.com/album/568735069KEjdGu <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568735069KEjdGu> It is possible to get any given photo its original size by clicking on it and then on the button that appears in the lower right hand corner when you mouse over it. Does anyone recognize anything pathological on the slides? Should I give my other fish anti-parasite medicine anyhow, or wait? The other fish seem fine. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 8:12:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33154	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Fish Food?

� Quite a while ago I had a talk with Lenny about flake food.� He said that he like a product called Formula One because of its high protein content.� I�ve tried but can�t find an appropriate link to purchase it.� Those I keep coming up with are for a Marine product. � In the meantime, it occurred to me that others might have the same thoughts..� How about it?� What are most of you feeding those fish.� Especially the Tetra people.� Good quality flake food?� How about Aquarian products? � Bill � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33155	From: Chris	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: going out of town for 2 nights

I'm going out of town, and while I'm not concerned about my fish being fed, I have a tank that is still cycling. I'll be leaving sunday night and won't be back till Tuesday evening. How can I slow the bacteria with out killing them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33156	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor

Probably the best response I had came from Ray in suggesting plain crushed coral to be added to the substrate in the tank it self along with Lenny�s suggestions on using Baking Soda.� Because the tank is small the power filter is one of those in the hood jobs so there isn�t much room or coral or limestone.� Ray�s recommendations are based on raising the PH with the baking soda but also the crushed coral to act as a buffer and increase the overall hardness.� Which, if I have learned my lessons properly, is to buffer and hold Ph at a desired level������������...hopefully. � According to what Ray and others have told me you will experience swings if your not careful and all things (GH & KH) do not remain in balance.� I�m not one to be giving you advice but with the Ph you quoted, why create a problem and maybe extra work for yourself to boot! � My problem(s) and how all of this started came from a very simple root.� And it�s what everyone forgot when they tried to advise me in NOT doctoring water. The LPS or in my case---------------Wal-Mart.� Don�t laugh!� They�re closest thing I have.� Anyway, I already knew that THEY are on city water that comes in at 6.5 to 6.8, just slightly below neutral.� With my well water with a reading of 5.5 constant, you can see my problem.� Buying fish at all could be like playing Russian roulette with their lives and I�m not that kind of person.� So it�s either �raise the bridge or lower the river�!� That�s how I got into Water Doctoring business at start with.� Don�t forget to respond to my post of just a moment ago about Fish Food. � Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 8:16 PM I don't know if this is an option or not, but what about getting a different sand/substrate mix that has a buffering capacity in it? The african mixes say they will buffer into the 8.0 range, but not sure what it would do with such a low PH as yours. There are also plant mixes that are supposed to buffer the PH to 6.5-7 range. I have considered doing the same since my PH sits around 6.2 but wasn't sure if my tank would fluxuate with each water change I do, and since I do 2-3 PWC's a week I didn't want my tank swinging around in the PH department and killing off my fish. But then again I don't even know if this will happen. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Amber bill1433 wrote: > No snow but windy as the devil! > > No, truth be told, nothing changed in the KH/GH department. We never got the limestone or anything else and I suppose that's why it dropped. It would be the devil trying to put it into the filter, not much room and the only recourse would be pieces right in the tank itself. I think it was Ray that warned me that this would happen. Not bad, but just enough so you would notice. I was crazy, trying this out on a tank this small. > > I remember about your recommendations on the water itself and trying to change parameters, but I was just hoping to get up out of the cellar with those Ph readings. But then, you can�t change nature can you? I want to watch my fish, not play with Test Kits all day and that�s just what I was doing. I should know better. Fish will adapt but that high acid makes me think it was even worse. > > This kit, or any of them for that matter, aren�t �brain surgery� accurate, so you get what you get, but using the same kit constantly is the only way to set up any kind of a baseline at all. I�ll probably try this little experiment further down the road with a bigger tank and some buffering in place. I read and printed those Ph information links as well as the tips on doctoring but hopefully we will be doing a new setup shortly. I just hope this guy doesn�t way until the snow is flying to finally decide that today�s the day we sell Bill that tank. > > Bill > > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:49 PM > > > > > > > Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's ecology > between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down > between PWC's. > > What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. > > It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. Have you > seen any "snow" in your tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Ya---------- ----right! > > I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake.. > Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????? ???????? > Bad news? Yes! > Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph is on > the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a day or > so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to temper the > water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers crossed and > lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more to talk about on > water but. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM > > I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is > that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their > tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. > > So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have > to knock-out your wife first? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Hi, > > I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. > > If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! > > http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. > net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> > > click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! > > Bill > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM > > Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started > reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php > > Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about > "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions > come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past > articles. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Laura, > > While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, > flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing > them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your > garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they > can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive > species. > Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually > takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article > and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are > several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming > out.. > http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? > > LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms > out of my 75 gal salt water tank. > They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge > of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to > grab.. > I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the > shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. > I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. > I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? > Laura in KY > > In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, > warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: > > Must be a slow mail day? > > Bill > > _ > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 > Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:49:57 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33157	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: autopsy of my fish with the spots

A bacterial infection would explain the holes in teh muscles with no obvious cause. But so would the possibility that the stomach actually ruptured a couple of days ago. I asked an ichthologist at UT, and he said he isn't that sort of an expert, but teh pet fish in his lab has the same thing. Gut not functioning, stomach distended, ulcers. That's in Austin. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to call Aquatek and ask about it there. But where's the logical place to find someone who can identify any visible pathogens in slides? I tried my usual microscopy lists, and so far someone speculated that maybe teh fish was poisoned with melamine. Not I'm kidding. I do want to know if I need to treat the other fish for some infection or just alter their diet a little to make sure tehy aren't getting constipated. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] autopsy of my fish with the spots Not sure if this will help but I was looking for other info and found this thread on a sick Betta that ended up seeing two different Vets, had surgical procedures, x-rays, ultrasounds, etc... and the OP posted verbatim copies of the medical reports, x-rays and reports, lab results, etc... and ultimately the necropsy report. (BTW.. a fish "autopsy" is called a necropsy. I think autopsy is reserved for us humans). http://aquamaniacs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25332 For anyone else interested in a lot more in-depth health info about our fish, read the above thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] autopsy of my fish with the spots Much of this is a repost; I left the questions off the end. My flame tetra with the swelling and the funny spots on its sides passed a long column of thick black stool through a newly created hole in the swelling on its lower right side. Stool seemed to pass straight downward from stomach. After this the black spots were much smaller and the fish acted normal though grouchy. Fish must have had a blocked intestine. I didn't think it could survive a perforated stomach and perforated skin, so this morning I euthanized it and did an autopsy. The organs looked pretty normal except for the mangled remains of teh stomach, and the liver, which was too small, and brown. Fish ate a diet of omnivorous pellets. I did one slide from the liver, and another from a general mash made of its intestines and other organs mixed in with them. Magnifying glass found no sign of anything alive, and nothing moved on any of the slides - no flagellates and seemingly no worms. The only other strange thing I noticed was that on the intact side of the fish, the dark spots turned out to be holes in the muscle of the fish, the exact size and location of those two spots. These holes existed before I opened up the fish and were the source of the black spot atleast on that side of its body. I repeat that the black spots appeared suddenly several days ago. My flame tetras do not have any spots or stripes behind their gills. I took alot of photos of some strange things. Some or most may be bubbles or fat globs, but many of them seemed to have internal structure. Probably teh most interesting are 2845 through 2848. Tehre were alot of rod-like things in the liver that were way too big to be bacteria and were not fungus. Some may be blood cells. Most views are 400x. Some are 100x. The last of them were done with methylene blue, which could be pulled on some of my slides but not all of them. (I added a drop of dechlorinated tap water to each of my smears.) The fish probably did have an infection by the time I did the autopsy. It may or may not have ahd one to begin with. If there are fat globs in the liver, are my fish developing fatty liver disease? The liver was dark brown, not light yellow. http://pets.webshots.com/album/568735069KEjdGu <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568735069KEjdGu> It is possible to get any given photo its original size by clicking on it and then on the button that appears in the lower right hand corner when you mouse over it. Does anyone recognize anything pathological on the slides? Should I give my other fish anti-parasite medicine anyhow, or wait? The other fish seem fine. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 8:12:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33158	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

Bill, Bill, Bill.. lol The food I had recommended was Omega One from http://www.omegasea.net/ and not so much because it had a high protein content but because it did NOT have all the filler crap that so many other foods have... like wheat gluten, flours, corn meal, etc. There is a "Formula One" food for marine fish but it's made by Ocean Nutrition and here is their list of FW foods... http://www.oceannutrition.com/product_fresh.php?lang=en You can browse their many specialty foods and see the ingredients in each. While cheaper food products like Tetra start off with ingredients including various meals, flours, etc., as the first several ingredients, products like Omega One, Ocean Nutrition and others start off with much better ingredients for our fish, like Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp (on my Omega One goldfish pellets)... after all, I haven't seen fish in the wild ever eating wheat flour, corn meal, soy flour, oat meal, etc. I understand some foods need some fillers to keep the food together but I'd rather not the top listed ingredients being the fillers. Here's the ingredients on: Omega One Goldfish Flakes - INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Black Cod, Seafood Mix (Including Rockfish, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement,Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative). Guaranteed Analysis Min. Crude Protein .39% Min. Crude Fat 10% Max. Crude Fiber .2% Max. Moisture . 8.5% Max. Ash ..8 % Min. Phosphorus .(.5%) Min. Omega 3 . 2% Min. Omega 6 ...1% Ocean Nutrition Goldfish Flakes - Ingredients - Salmon fillets, Euphasia superba, soya, Euphasia pacifica plankton, wheat flour, wheat germ, adult brine shrimp, sea clams, MPAXTM(Marine Protein Amino eXtract: fish meals, select amino acids (DL-Arginine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Betaine, TL-Tryptophan)), vitamins (ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), biotin (Vitamin H), Vitamin B12, riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), panthotenic acid (Vitamin B5), menadione (Vitamin K3), folacin (Vitamin B9), cholicalciferol (Vitamin D3), niacin (Vitamin B3), retinol (Vitamin A1), pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)), minerals (potassium iodide, iron oxide, manganese sulfate, magnesium oxide, zinc sulfate), ethoxyquin, carotenoid pigments, kelp, squid, marine algae, Spirulina, tuna eggs, brine shrimp nauplii, salmon egg oil, garlic. Guaranteed Analysis Protein (min) 32.0% Fiber (max) 1.0% Fat (min) 8.2% Ash (max) 6.0% Moisture (max) 8.8% And then Tetra Goldfish Flakes - (NOTE - Tetra does not even provide this info on their own website - http://www.tetrafish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276 <http://www.tetrafish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276 &cid=33> &cid=33 so I had to find it elsewhere) Ingredients TetraFin goldfish flakes are multi colored nutritional flaked foods that are high in crude protein. It contains a minimum of 42.0% in addition to these: 8.0% crude fat min, 2.0% crude fiber min, 6.5% moisture max, 1.1% phosphorus min. It contains fish meal, ground brown rice, feeding oat meal, shrimp meal, fish oil, algae meal, and this list of other ingredients: torula dried yeast, wheat gluten, soybean oil, sorbitol, lecithin, L-ascorbyL-2, polyphosphate, (vitamin C), yellow 5, red 3, and blue 2. and the preservative Ethoxyquin. (END SNIPS) So... which fish foods sound better? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:07 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Quite a while ago I had a talk with Lenny about flake food. He said that he like a product called Formula One because of its high protein content. I¢ve tried but can¢t find an appropriate link to purchase it. Those I keep coming up with are for a Marine product. In the meantime, it occurred to me that others might have the same thoughts.. How about it? What are most of you feeding those fish. Especially the Tetra people. Good quality flake food? How about Aquarian products? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 8:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33159	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

I feed New Life Spectrum. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:07 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food?   Quite a while ago I had a talk with Lenny about flake food.  He said that he like a product called Formula One because of its high protein content.  I¢ve tried but can¢t find an appropriate link to purchase it.  Those I keep coming up with are for a Marine product.   In the meantime, it occurred to me that others might have the same thoughts..  How about it?  What are most of you feeding those fish.  Especially the Tetra people.  Good quality flake food?  How about Aquarian products?   Bill   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33160	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor

Bill, I've also mentioned either Oyster Flour (finely ground oyster shell for both GH and KH increases) and/or Cuttle Bone (for pet birds) which both are calcium carbonate and can be found easily... the Cuttle Bone even at your Walmart. The Cuttle Bone is soft enough to break up into small pieces, put in a filter media bag and hide it behind a decoration. I just add a couple of pieces to the filter reservoir on my cherry shrimp tank and would just drop a piece into my tank when I had Mystery Snails. I personally like the idea of using the oyster flour for KH and GH (or baking soda for just KH) as it's already finely ground and easier to accurately measure and dose to bring things up slowly. Then you could add the filter media to keep things buffered up slowly and lessen the number of future dosings. But as usual... it's best if you just keep fish that like your water! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Probably the best response I had came from Ray in suggesting plain crushed coral to be added to the substrate in the tank it self along with Lenny's suggestions on using Baking Soda. Because the tank is small the power filter is one of those in the hood jobs so there isn't much room or coral or limestone. Ray's recommendations are based on raising the PH with the baking soda but also the crushed coral to act as a buffer and increase the overall hardness. Which, if I have learned my lessons properly, is to buffer and hold Ph at a desired level...............hopefully. According to what Ray and others have told me you will experience swings if your not careful and all things (GH & KH) do not remain in balance. I'm not one to be giving you advice but with the Ph you quoted, why create a problem and maybe extra work for yourself to boot! My problem(s) and how all of this started came from a very simple root. And it's what everyone forgot when they tried to advise me in NOT doctoring water. The LPS or in my case---------------Wal-Mart. Don't laugh! They're closest thing I have. Anyway, I already knew that THEY are on city water that comes in at 6.5 to 6.8, just slightly below neutral. With my well water with a reading of 5.5 constant, you can see my problem. Buying fish at all could be like playing Russian roulette with their lives and I'm not that kind of person. So it's either "raise the bridge or lower the river"! That's how I got into Water Doctoring business at start with. Don't forget to respond to my post of just a moment ago about Fish Food. Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 8:16 PM I don't know if this is an option or not, but what about getting a different sand/substrate mix that has a buffering capacity in it? The african mixes say they will buffer into the 8.0 range, but not sure what it would do with such a low PH as yours. There are also plant mixes that are supposed to buffer the PH to 6.5-7 range. I have considered doing the same since my PH sits around 6.2 but wasn't sure if my tank would fluxuate with each water change I do, and since I do 2-3 PWC's a week I didn't want my tank swinging around in the PH department and killing off my fish. But then again I don't even know if this will happen. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Amber bill1433 wrote: > No snow but windy as the devil! > > No, truth be told, nothing changed in the KH/GH department. We never > got the limestone or anything else and I suppose that's why it dropped. It would be the devil trying to put it into the filter, not much room and the only recourse would be pieces right in the tank itself. I think it was Ray that warned me that this would happen. Not bad, but just enough so you would notice. I was crazy, trying this out on a tank this small. > > I remember about your recommendations on the water itself and trying > to change parameters, but I was just hoping to get up out of the cellar with those Ph readings. But then, you can't change nature can you? I want to watch my fish, not play with Test Kits all day and that's just what I was doing. I should know better. Fish will adapt but that high acid makes me think it was even worse. > > This kit, or any of them for that matter, aren't "brain surgery" accurate, so you get what you get, but using the same kit constantly is the only way to set up any kind of a baseline at all. I'll probably try this little experiment further down the road with a bigger tank and some buffering in place. I read and printed those Ph information links as well as the tips on doctoring but hopefully we will be doing a new setup shortly. I just hope this guy doesn't way until the snow is flying to finally decide that today's the day we sell Bill that tank. > > Bill > > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:49 PM > > > > > > > Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's ecology > between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down > between PWC's. > > What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. > > It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. Have you > seen any "snow" in your tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Ya---------- ----right! > > I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake.. > Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????? ???????? > Bad news? Yes! > Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph > is on the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a > day or so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to > temper the water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers > crossed and lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more > to talk about on > water but. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM > > I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is > that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their > tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. > > So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have > to knock-out your wife first? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Hi, > > I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. > > If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! > > http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. > net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> > > click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! > > Bill > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM > > Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started > reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php > > Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about > "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions > come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past > articles. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Laura, > > While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill > these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing > them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in > your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are > dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a > non-native invasive > species. > Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually > takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article > and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many > are several years old so there is always a chance of new information > coming out.. > http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month > and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? > > LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms > out of my 75 gal salt water tank. > They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the > edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for > me to grab.. > I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the > shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. > I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. > I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? > Laura in KY > > In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, > warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: > > Must be a slow mail day? > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 9:00:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33161	From: Walden Nida	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Decapsulated Brine Shrmp

The reasons for decapsulating Brine shrimp are the improved hatch rate, the unhatched aggs can be fed to the fry, and you will not have as many problems with swim bladder disorder as the egg shells are gone. No mater how careful you are some egg shells and unhatched eggs get fed to the fish. If you are happy with your present results then go on as you are. You are taliking about one extra step with the BBS. Wally [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33162	From: Suzi	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

is it this food? http://store.petplace.com/show_product/11268/11268/ ----- Have a great day! Suzi http://www.photoworks.com/members/Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: bill1433 To: AquaticLife Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:07 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Quite a while ago I had a talk with Lenny about flake food. He said that he like a product called Formula One because of its high protein content. I�ve tried but can�t find an appropriate link to purchase it. Those I keep coming up with are for a Marine product. In the meantime, it occurred to me that others might have the same thoughts.. How about it? What are most of you feeding those fish. Especially the Tetra people. Good quality flake food? How about Aquarian products? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33163	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

I think Nutrafin Flakes seem to be a bit higher? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+4293&pcatid=4293 Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 9:49 PM Bill, Bill, Bill.. lol The food I had recommended was Omega One from http://www.omegasea .net/ and not so much because it had a high protein content but because it did NOT have all the filler crap that so many other foods have... like wheat gluten, flours, corn meal, etc. There is a "Formula One" food for marine fish but it's made by Ocean Nutrition and here is their list of FW foods... http://www.oceannut rition.com/ product_fresh. php?lang= en You can browse their many specialty foods and see the ingredients in each. While cheaper food products like Tetra start off with ingredients including various meals, flours, etc., as the first several ingredients, products like Omega One, Ocean Nutrition and others start off with much better ingredients for our fish, like Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp (on my Omega One goldfish pellets)... after all, I haven't seen fish in the wild ever eating wheat flour, corn meal, soy flour, oat meal, etc. I understand some foods need some fillers to keep the food together but I'd rather not the top listed ingredients being the fillers. Here's the ingredients on: Omega One Goldfish Flakes - INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Black Cod, Seafood Mix (Including Rockfish, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2- Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement,Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative) , Ethoxyquin (Preservative) . Guaranteed Analysis Min. Crude Protein�.39% Min. Crude Fat���10% Max. Crude Fiber��.2% Max. Moisture���. 8.5% Max. Ash�����..8 % Min. Phosphorus��.(.5%) Min. Omega 3 ���. 2% Min. Omega 6���...1% Ocean Nutrition Goldfish Flakes - Ingredients - Salmon fillets, Euphasia superba, soya, Euphasia pacifica plankton, wheat flour, wheat germ, adult brine shrimp, sea clams, MPAXTM(Marine Protein Amino eXtract: fish meals, select amino acids (DL-Arginine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Betaine, TL-Tryptophan) ), vitamins (ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), biotin (Vitamin H), Vitamin B12, riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), panthotenic acid (Vitamin B5), menadione (Vitamin K3), folacin (Vitamin B9), cholicalciferol (Vitamin D3), niacin (Vitamin B3), retinol (Vitamin A1), pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)), minerals (potassium iodide, iron oxide, manganese sulfate, magnesium oxide, zinc sulfate), ethoxyquin, carotenoid pigments, kelp, squid, marine algae, Spirulina, tuna eggs, brine shrimp nauplii, salmon egg oil, garlic. Guaranteed Analysis Protein (min) 32.0% Fiber (max) 1.0% Fat (min) 8.2% Ash (max) 6.0% Moisture (max) 8.8% And then Tetra Goldfish Flakes - (NOTE - Tetra does not even provide this info on their own website - http://www.tetrafis h.com/sites/ tetrafish/ catalog/productd etail.aspx? id=1276 <http://www.tetrafis h.com/sites/ tetrafish/ catalog/productd etail.aspx? id=1276 &cid=33> &cid=33 so I had to find it elsewhere) Ingredients TetraFin goldfish flakes are multi colored nutritional flaked foods that are high in crude protein. It contains a minimum of 42.0% in addition to these: 8.0% crude fat min, 2.0% crude fiber min, 6.5% moisture max, 1.1% phosphorus min. It contains fish meal, ground brown rice, feeding oat meal, shrimp meal, fish oil, algae meal, and this list of other ingredients: torula dried yeast, wheat gluten, soybean oil, sorbitol, lecithin, L-ascorbyL-2, polyphosphate, (vitamin C), yellow 5, red 3, and blue 2. and the preservative Ethoxyquin. (END SNIPS) So... which fish foods sound better? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:07 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Quite a while ago I had a talk with Lenny about flake food. He said that he like a product called Formula One because of its high protein content. I�ve tried but can�t find an appropriate link to purchase it. Those I keep coming up with are for a Marine product. In the meantime, it occurred to me that others might have the same thoughts.. How about it? What are most of you feeding those fish. Especially the Tetra people. Good quality flake food? How about Aquarian products? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 8:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33164	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor

Bill, I inadvertently skipped this one earlier. Is your GH 1.5 or KH 1.5? You have GH for both. In either case, they are both on the low side, meaning you have soft water.. which we already know. I see the pH is 6.5. I thought you said it dropped? I thought this was as high as you got it. If your water is maintaining at 6.5 pH with the low KH and GH, then I would not worry as much about dosing unless you just wanted to add one of the slow release additives mentioned by several of us. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 3:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Ph 6.5 Ammonia 0 Nitrite .3 GH 1.5 GH1 Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:54 PM What are the actual numbers for the pH, GH, KH, etc. How much did the pH drop? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) No snow but windy as the devil! No, truth be told, nothing changed in the KH/GH department. We never got the limestone or anything else and I suppose that's why it dropped. It would be the devil trying to put it into the filter, not much room and the only recourse would be pieces right in the tank itself. I think it was Ray that warned me that this would happen. Not bad, but just enough so you would notice. I was crazy, trying this out on a tank this small. I remember about your recommendations on the water itself and trying to change parameters, but I was just hoping to get up out of the cellar with those Ph readings. But then, you can’t change nature can you? I want to watch my fish, not play with Test Kits all day and that’s just what I was doing. I should know better. Fish will adapt but that high acid makes me think it was even worse. This kit, or any of them for that matter, aren’t “brain surgery” accurate, so you get what you get, but using the same kit constantly is the only way to set up any kind of a baseline at all. I’ll probably try this little experiment further down the road with a bigger tank and some buffering in place. I read and printed those Ph information links as well as the tips on doctoring but hopefully we will be doing a new setup shortly. I just hope this guy doesn’t way until the snow is flying to finally decide that today’s the day we sell Bill that tank. Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:49 PM Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's ecology between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down between PWC's. What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. Have you seen any "snow" in your tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Ya---------- ----right! I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake. Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????? ???????? Bad news? Yes! Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph is on the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a day or so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to temper the water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers crossed and lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more to talk about on water but. Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have to knock-out your wife first? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Hi, I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past articles. http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Laura, While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native invasive species. Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming out.. http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms out of my 75 gal salt water tank. They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to grab.. I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? Laura in KY In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: Must be a slow mail day? Bill _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:49:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33165	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

Nutrafin Max has the following ingredients.. and you'll see meals and flours as the first several ingredients. They are better than Tetra but not nearly as good as Omega One, Ocean Nutrition or some of the other good brands. Nutrafin Max Complete Food Flakes Ingredients Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Pre-Digested Plankton, Soy Protein Concentrate, Corn Flour Oat Meal, Squid Meal, Fish Liver Meal, Soy Flour, Wheat Gluten Meal, Krill, Dried Yeast, Squid Liver Meal, Shrimp Meal, Fish Oil, Laver Aquatic Plant, Amino Acid, Wheat Germ Meal, Lecithin, Vanillin, Chlorophyll, Citric Acid, Vitamins A, D3, E, B1, B2, B6, B12, Folic Acid, Vitamin D-Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin C (L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate), Inositol, Biotin, Niacin, Ethyoxyquin (as a preservative). Guaranteed Analysis Crude Protein 44.0% min Crude Fat 5.0% min Crude Fiber 2.0% max Moisture 8.0% max Phosphorus 0.9% max -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? I think Nutrafin Flakes seem to be a bit higher? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+4293 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+4293&pca tid=4293> &pcatid=4293 Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 9:49 PM Bill, Bill, Bill.. lol The food I had recommended was Omega One from http://www.omegasea .net/ and not so much because it had a high protein content but because it did NOT have all the filler crap that so many other foods have... like wheat gluten, flours, corn meal, etc. There is a "Formula One" food for marine fish but it's made by Ocean Nutrition and here is their list of FW foods... http://www.oceannut rition.com/ product_fresh. php?lang= en You can browse their many specialty foods and see the ingredients in each. While cheaper food products like Tetra start off with ingredients including various meals, flours, etc., as the first several ingredients, products like Omega One, Ocean Nutrition and others start off with much better ingredients for our fish, like Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp (on my Omega One goldfish pellets)... after all, I haven't seen fish in the wild ever eating wheat flour, corn meal, soy flour, oat meal, etc. I understand some foods need some fillers to keep the food together but I'd rather not the top listed ingredients being the fillers. Here's the ingredients on: Omega One Goldfish Flakes - INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Black Cod, Seafood Mix (Including Rockfish, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2- Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement,Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative) , Ethoxyquin (Preservative) . Guaranteed Analysis Min. Crude Protein .39% Min. Crude Fat 10% Max. Crude Fiber .2% Max. Moisture . 8.5% Max. Ash ..8 % Min. Phosphorus .(.5%) Min. Omega 3 . 2% Min. Omega 6 ...1% Ocean Nutrition Goldfish Flakes - Ingredients - Salmon fillets, Euphasia superba, soya, Euphasia pacifica plankton, wheat flour, wheat germ, adult brine shrimp, sea clams, MPAXTM(Marine Protein Amino eXtract: fish meals, select amino acids (DL-Arginine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Betaine, TL-Tryptophan) ), vitamins (ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), biotin (Vitamin H), Vitamin B12, riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), panthotenic acid (Vitamin B5), menadione (Vitamin K3), folacin (Vitamin B9), cholicalciferol (Vitamin D3), niacin (Vitamin B3), retinol (Vitamin A1), pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)), minerals (potassium iodide, iron oxide, manganese sulfate, magnesium oxide, zinc sulfate), ethoxyquin, carotenoid pigments, kelp, squid, marine algae, Spirulina, tuna eggs, brine shrimp nauplii, salmon egg oil, garlic. Guaranteed Analysis Protein (min) 32.0% Fiber (max) 1.0% Fat (min) 8.2% Ash (max) 6.0% Moisture (max) 8.8% And then Tetra Goldfish Flakes - (NOTE - Tetra does not even provide this info on their own website - http://www.tetrafis h.com/sites/ tetrafish/ catalog/productd etail.aspx? id=1276 <http://www.tetrafis h.com/sites/ tetrafish/ catalog/productd etail.aspx? id=1276 <http://www.tetrafis h.com/sites/ tetrafish/ catalog/productd etail.aspx? id=1276 &cid=33> &cid=33> &cid=33 so I had to find it elsewhere) Ingredients TetraFin goldfish flakes are multi colored nutritional flaked foods that are high in crude protein. It contains a minimum of 42.0% in addition to these: 8.0% crude fat min, 2.0% crude fiber min, 6.5% moisture max, 1.1% phosphorus min. It contains fish meal, ground brown rice, feeding oat meal, shrimp meal, fish oil, algae meal, and this list of other ingredients: torula dried yeast, wheat gluten, soybean oil, sorbitol, lecithin, L-ascorbyL-2, polyphosphate, (vitamin C), yellow 5, red 3, and blue 2. and the preservative Ethoxyquin. (END SNIPS) So... which fish foods sound better? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:07 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Quite a while ago I had a talk with Lenny about flake food. He said that he like a product called Formula One because of its high protein content. I¢ve tried but can¢t find an appropriate link to purchase it. Those I keep coming up with are for a Marine product. In the meantime, it occurred to me that others might have the same thoughts.. How about it? What are most of you feeding those fish. Especially the Tetra people. Good quality flake food? How about Aquarian products? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 8:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 9:08:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 9:11:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33166	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

Its salt water flakes. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Suzi" <suziknits2@...> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:22:19 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? is it this food? http://store.petplace.com/show_product/11268/11268/ ----- Have a great day! Suzi http://www.photoworks.com/members/Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: bill1433 To: AquaticLife Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:07 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Quite a while ago I had a talk with Lenny about flake food. He said that he like a product called Formula One because of its high protein content. I¢ve tried but can¢t find an appropriate link to purchase it. Those I keep coming up with are for a Marine product. In the meantime, it occurred to me that others might have the same thoughts.. How about it? What are most of you feeding those fish. Especially the Tetra people. Good quality flake food? How about Aquarian products? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33167	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Decapsulated Brine Shrmp

How do brine shrimp egg shells cause swim bladder disorder? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walden Nida" <wcnida@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:47 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Decapsulated Brine Shrmp The reasons for decapsulating Brine shrimp are the improved hatch rate, the unhatched aggs can be fed to the fry, and you will not have as many problems with swim bladder disorder as the egg shells are gone. No mater how careful you are some egg shells and unhatched eggs get fed to the fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33168	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Decapsulated Brine Shrmp

Earlier in this thread, I posted three links to detailed info and why/how this is can sometimes be caused. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Decapsulated Brine Shrmp How do brine shrimp egg shells cause swim bladder disorder? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walden Nida" <wcnida@... <mailto:wcnida%40earthlink.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:47 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Decapsulated Brine Shrmp The reasons for decapsulating Brine shrimp are the improved hatch rate, the unhatched aggs can be fed to the fry, and you will not have as many problems with swim bladder disorder as the egg shells are gone. No mater how careful you are some egg shells and unhatched eggs get fed to the fish. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 9:14:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33169	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

Omega, it shall be.� Now where to buy it?� Direct? � On the water hardness, GH 1.5� kh1 � As you can see from all previous posts it has stayed near the same and that includes the original baseline work.� Crushed coral as soon as I can but that cuttle bone business seems to be the easiest to get around here. � Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 10:11 PM Nutrafin Max has the following ingredients. . and you'll see meals and flours as the first several ingredients. They are better than Tetra but not nearly as good as Omega One, Ocean Nutrition or some of the other good brands. Nutrafin Max Complete Food Flakes Ingredients Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Pre-Digested Plankton, Soy Protein Concentrate, Corn Flour Oat Meal, Squid Meal, Fish Liver Meal, Soy Flour, Wheat Gluten Meal, Krill, Dried Yeast, Squid Liver Meal, Shrimp Meal, Fish Oil, Laver Aquatic Plant, Amino Acid, Wheat Germ Meal, Lecithin, Vanillin, Chlorophyll, Citric Acid, Vitamins A, D3, E, B1, B2, B6, B12, Folic Acid, Vitamin D-Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin C (L-Ascorbyl- 2-Phosphate) , Inositol, Biotin, Niacin, Ethyoxyquin (as a preservative) . Guaranteed Analysis Crude Protein 44.0% min Crude Fat 5.0% min Crude Fiber 2.0% max Moisture 8.0% max Phosphorus 0.9% max -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:04 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? I think Nutrafin Flakes seem to be a bit higher? http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+7927+ 4293 <http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+7927+ 4293&pca tid=4293> &pcatid=4293 Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 9:49 PM Bill, Bill, Bill.. lol The food I had recommended was Omega One from http://www.omegasea .net/ and not so much because it had a high protein content but because it did NOT have all the filler crap that so many other foods have... like wheat gluten, flours, corn meal, etc. There is a "Formula One" food for marine fish but it's made by Ocean Nutrition and here is their list of FW foods... http://www.oceannut rition.com/ product_fresh. php?lang= en You can browse their many specialty foods and see the ingredients in each. While cheaper food products like Tetra start off with ingredients including various meals, flours, etc., as the first several ingredients, products like Omega One, Ocean Nutrition and others start off with much better ingredients for our fish, like Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp (on my Omega One goldfish pellets)... after all, I haven't seen fish in the wild ever eating wheat flour, corn meal, soy flour, oat meal, etc. I understand some foods need some fillers to keep the food together but I'd rather not the top listed ingredients being the fillers. Here's the ingredients on: Omega One Goldfish Flakes - INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Black Cod, Seafood Mix (Including Rockfish, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2- Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement,Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative) , Ethoxyquin (Preservative) . Guaranteed Analysis Min. Crude Protein�.39% Min. Crude Fat���10% Max. Crude Fiber��.2% Max. Moisture���. 8.5% Max. Ash�����..8 % Min. Phosphorus��.(.5%) Min. Omega 3 ���. 2% Min. Omega 6���...1% Ocean Nutrition Goldfish Flakes - Ingredients - Salmon fillets, Euphasia superba, soya, Euphasia pacifica plankton, wheat flour, wheat germ, adult brine shrimp, sea clams, MPAXTM(Marine Protein Amino eXtract: fish meals, select amino acids (DL-Arginine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Betaine, TL-Tryptophan) ), vitamins (ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), biotin (Vitamin H), Vitamin B12, riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), panthotenic acid (Vitamin B5), menadione (Vitamin K3), folacin (Vitamin B9), cholicalciferol (Vitamin D3), niacin (Vitamin B3), retinol (Vitamin A1), pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)), minerals (potassium iodide, iron oxide, manganese sulfate, magnesium oxide, zinc sulfate), ethoxyquin, carotenoid pigments, kelp, squid, marine algae, Spirulina, tuna eggs, brine shrimp nauplii, salmon egg oil, garlic. Guaranteed Analysis Protein (min) 32.0% Fiber (max) 1.0% Fat (min) 8.2% Ash (max) 6.0% Moisture (max) 8.8% And then Tetra Goldfish Flakes - (NOTE - Tetra does not even provide this info on their own website - http://www.tetrafis h.com/sites/ tetrafish/ catalog/productd etail.aspx? id=1276 <http://www.tetrafis h.com/sites/ tetrafish/ catalog/productd etail.aspx? id=1276 <http://www.tetrafis h.com/sites/ tetrafish/ catalog/productd etail.aspx? id=1276 &cid=33> &cid=33> &cid=33 so I had to find it elsewhere) Ingredients TetraFin goldfish flakes are multi colored nutritional flaked foods that are high in crude protein. It contains a minimum of 42.0% in addition to these: 8.0% crude fat min, 2.0% crude fiber min, 6.5% moisture max, 1.1% phosphorus min. It contains fish meal, ground brown rice, feeding oat meal, shrimp meal, fish oil, algae meal, and this list of other ingredients: torula dried yeast, wheat gluten, soybean oil, sorbitol, lecithin, L-ascorbyL-2, polyphosphate, (vitamin C), yellow 5, red 3, and blue 2. and the preservative Ethoxyquin. (END SNIPS) So... which fish foods sound better? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:07 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Quite a while ago I had a talk with Lenny about flake food. He said that he like a product called Formula One because of its high protein content. I�ve tried but can�t find an appropriate link to purchase it. Those I keep coming up with are for a Marine product. In the meantime, it occurred to me that others might have the same thoughts.. How about it? What are most of you feeding those fish. Especially the Tetra people. Good quality flake food? How about Aquarian products? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 8:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 9:08:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 9:11:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33170	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:

sounds awful. keep us posted. i'd do some serious water changes. maybe put him in a small bowl and keep changing the water just to keep fresh fresh fresh water pumping through his gills. maybe he'll pull through On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Wow... I'm not sure if even a brief encounter with cooking oil would be > very > good to a fishes gills and/or labyrinth organ (in the case of your Betta). > His rapid respiratory action seems to indicate this as well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pomlady101 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] help betta on his way out: > > I changed my bettas tank yesterday, same as always except my husband > accidentally dropped some cooking oil in his bowl that he was in. Got him > out in one heck of a hurry, cleaned bowl returned him to it. Then got tank > done and put him in. He ate a little last night and now today he is laying > on bottom sideways breathing very fast. When I went near he bolted like a > nutcase around his tank. I realize he is prob done for and a hundred things > could be wrong with him but just thought I'd share and see if anyone could > help. gotten to like the little guy :( thanks Erin > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 > Tested on: 11/17/2008 2:46:39 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33171	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:

well even though i'm retarded and wasn't thinking about it being a betta, i'd still do what i said. just remove the part about fresh water pumping through his gills :) good luck btw. On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Brad Belikove <bbelikove@...> wrote: > sounds awful. keep us posted. i'd do some serious water changes. maybe put > him in a small bowl and keep changing the water just to keep fresh fresh > fresh water pumping through his gills. maybe he'll pull through > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@...> wrote: > >> Wow... I'm not sure if even a brief encounter with cooking oil would be >> very >> good to a fishes gills and/or labyrinth organ (in the case of your Betta). >> His rapid respiratory action seems to indicate this as well. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under >> Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: >> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of pomlady101 >> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:03 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] help betta on his way out: >> >> I changed my bettas tank yesterday, same as always except my husband >> accidentally dropped some cooking oil in his bowl that he was in. Got him >> out in one heck of a hurry, cleaned bowl returned him to it. Then got tank >> done and put him in. He ate a little last night and now today he is laying >> on bottom sideways breathing very fast. When I went near he bolted like a >> nutcase around his tank. I realize he is prob done for and a hundred >> things >> could be wrong with him but just thought I'd share and see if anyone could >> help. gotten to like the little guy :( thanks Erin >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 >> Tested on: 11/17/2008 2:46:39 PM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33172	From: bill1433	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor

Len, my friend � I appreciate ALL of your help and I�m working on the problem but I think that YOU think this is something that I just wanted to do?� NOT! � This problem comes from something that I tried to explain quite a while back but I believe you either missed this point or forgot about it.� I realize that you help a great many people out here and I also understand that I am not the easiest person to get a point across too (the boss likes to say �Strong AS Oak and Twice as Thick�) but this �doctoring of the water business� has a serious side and more than just keeping a special fish.� Although that would be nice (those da__ Red-Wag Platy�s again) please believe it�s not the only issue here by a long shot. � To refresh a bit, I suggest you pull up the message that I� answered this evening to �Amber Berglund� on the �Bill's water tests� thread.� If you read the last paragraph s-l-o-w-l-y, I believe all will become clear at last��I hope? � And Thanks for the food link I won�t lose this one, I pasted everything into the notebook this time. � Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 10:00 PM Bill, I've also mentioned either Oyster Flour (finely ground oyster shell for both GH and KH increases) and/or Cuttle Bone (for pet birds) which both are calcium carbonate and can be found easily... the Cuttle Bone even at your Walmart. The Cuttle Bone is soft enough to break up into small pieces, put in a filter media bag and hide it behind a decoration. I just add a couple of pieces to the filter reservoir on my cherry shrimp tank and would just drop a piece into my tank when I had Mystery Snails. I personally like the idea of using the oyster flour for KH and GH (or baking soda for just KH) as it's already finely ground and easier to accurately measure and dose to bring things up slowly. Then you could add the filter media to keep things buffered up slowly and lessen the number of future dosings. But as usual... it's best if you just keep fish that like your water! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) Probably the best response I had came from Ray in suggesting plain crushed coral to be added to the substrate in the tank it self along with Lenny's suggestions on using Baking Soda. Because the tank is small the power filter is one of those in the hood jobs so there isn't much room or coral or limestone. Ray's recommendations are based on raising the PH with the baking soda but also the crushed coral to act as a buffer and increase the overall hardness. Which, if I have learned my lessons properly, is to buffer and hold Ph at a desired level....... ........hopefull y. According to what Ray and others have told me you will experience swings if your not careful and all things (GH & KH) do not remain in balance. I'm not one to be giving you advice but with the Ph you quoted, why create a problem and maybe extra work for yourself to boot! My problem(s) and how all of this started came from a very simple root. And it's what everyone forgot when they tried to advise me in NOT doctoring water. The LPS or in my case-------- -------Wal- Mart. Don't laugh! They're closest thing I have. Anyway, I already knew that THEY are on city water that comes in at 6.5 to 6.8, just slightly below neutral. With my well water with a reading of 5.5 constant, you can see my problem. Buying fish at all could be like playing Russian roulette with their lives and I'm not that kind of person. So it's either "raise the bridge or lower the river"! That's how I got into Water Doctoring business at start with. Don't forget to respond to my post of just a moment ago about Fish Food. Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 8:16 PM I don't know if this is an option or not, but what about getting a different sand/substrate mix that has a buffering capacity in it? The african mixes say they will buffer into the 8.0 range, but not sure what it would do with such a low PH as yours. There are also plant mixes that are supposed to buffer the PH to 6.5-7 range. I have considered doing the same since my PH sits around 6.2 but wasn't sure if my tank would fluxuate with each water change I do, and since I do 2-3 PWC's a week I didn't want my tank swinging around in the PH department and killing off my fish. But then again I don't even know if this will happen. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Amber bill1433 wrote: > No snow but windy as the devil! > > No, truth be told, nothing changed in the KH/GH department. We never > got the limestone or anything else and I suppose that's why it dropped. It would be the devil trying to put it into the filter, not much room and the only recourse would be pieces right in the tank itself. I think it was Ray that warned me that this would happen. Not bad, but just enough so you would notice. I was crazy, trying this out on a tank this small. > > I remember about your recommendations on the water itself and trying > to change parameters, but I was just hoping to get up out of the cellar with those Ph readings. But then, you can't change nature can you? I want to watch my fish, not play with Test Kits all day and that's just what I was doing. I should know better. Fish will adapt but that high acid makes me think it was even worse. > > This kit, or any of them for that matter, aren't "brain surgery" accurate, so you get what you get, but using the same kit constantly is the only way to set up any kind of a baseline at all. I'll probably try this little experiment further down the road with a bigger tank and some buffering in place. I read and printed those Ph information links as well as the tips on doctoring but hopefully we will be doing a new setup shortly. I just hope this guy doesn't way until the snow is flying to finally decide that today's the day we sell Bill that tank. > > Bill > > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:49 PM > > > > > > > Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's ecology > between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down > between PWC's. > > What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. > > It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. Have you > seen any "snow" in your tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Ya---------- ----right! > > I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake.. > Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????? ???????? > Bad news? Yes! > Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph > is on the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a > day or so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to > temper the water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers > crossed and lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more > to talk about on > water but. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM > > I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute YouTube video.... is > that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to their > tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. > > So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you have > to knock-out your wife first? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Hi, > > I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. > > If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! > > http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. > net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> > > click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! > > Bill > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM > > Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started > reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php > > Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine about > "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new editions > come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past > articles. > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM > To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - > Mail?) > > Laura, > > While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill > these, flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. Crushing > them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in > your garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are > dead so they can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a > non-native invasive > species. > Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib usually > takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini article > and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many > are several years old so there is always a chance of new information > coming out.. > http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month > and under > Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? > > LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire worms > out of my 75 gal salt water tank. > They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the > edge of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for > me to grab.. > I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the > shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. > I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. > I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? > Laura in KY > > In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, > warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: > > Must be a slow mail day? > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 9:00:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33173	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/17/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:

Bettas also have gills. The labyrinth organ is just something extra they have over non-labyrinth fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brad Belikove Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help betta on his way out: well even though i'm retarded and wasn't thinking about it being a betta, i'd still do what i said. just remove the part about fresh water pumping through his gills :) good luck btw. On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Brad Belikove <bbelikove@... <mailto:bbelikove%40gmail.com> > wrote: > sounds awful. keep us posted. i'd do some serious water changes. maybe > put him in a small bowl and keep changing the water just to keep fresh > fresh fresh water pumping through his gills. maybe he'll pull through > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Wow... I'm not sure if even a brief encounter with cooking oil would >> be very good to a fishes gills and/or labyrinth organ (in the case of >> your Betta). >> His rapid respiratory action seems to indicate this as well. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above >> listed on the right side under Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: >> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pomlady101 >> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:03 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] help betta on his way out: >> >> I changed my bettas tank yesterday, same as always except my husband >> accidentally dropped some cooking oil in his bowl that he was in. Got >> him out in one heck of a hurry, cleaned bowl returned him to it. Then >> got tank done and put him in. He ate a little last night and now >> today he is laying on bottom sideways breathing very fast. When I >> went near he bolted like a nutcase around his tank. I realize he is >> prob done for and a hundred things could be wrong with him but just >> thought I'd share and see if anyone could help. gotten to like the >> little guy :( thanks Erin >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 >> 2:46:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 11:37:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 1:38:57 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33174	From: vishwanath preetham	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: brush algae infestation

Hi, I've a 2ft*1ft*1ft planted tank and couple of fishes only. I've a issue at hand that is my aquarium has a brush algae infestation . Anubias was initially infested but I gave the plant a Bleach bath, though the algae is not gone its turned to light gray from black or dark green. Now I find these on the sides of aquarium and on the gravel to. I've changed the water several time and used H2O2 in safe limits in the aquarium but in vein. Need your help on this . Any suggestion to control brush algae is appreciated Thanks Preetham

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33175	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:

so does this mean that bettas breath both from the air and through the water? i know that bettas developed the ability to breath air due to living in small "mud" puddles which also explains their severe territorial behaviors as well as their ability to live in very small confines. I didn't know they also have the ability to breath as any other fish would: ie: through the gills...thanks for the info by the way. On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Bettas also have gills. The labyrinth organ is just something extra they > have over non-labyrinth fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Brad Belikove > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help betta on his way out: > > well even though i'm retarded and wasn't thinking about it being a betta, > i'd still do what i said. just remove the part about fresh water pumping > through his gills :) good luck btw. > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Brad Belikove <bbelikove@...<bbelikove%40gmail.com> > <mailto:bbelikove%40gmail.com <bbelikove%2540gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > sounds awful. keep us posted. i'd do some serious water changes. maybe > > put him in a small bowl and keep changing the water just to keep fresh > > fresh fresh water pumping through his gills. maybe he'll pull through > > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto: > GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > >> Wow... I'm not sure if even a brief encounter with cooking oil would > >> be very good to a fishes gills and/or labyrinth organ (in the case of > >> your Betta). > >> His rapid respiratory action seems to indicate this as well. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > >> listed on the right side under Archives > >> - Year, Month and under Labels) > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: > >> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pomlady101 > >> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:03 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] help betta on his way out: > >> > >> I changed my bettas tank yesterday, same as always except my husband > >> accidentally dropped some cooking oil in his bowl that he was in. Got > >> him out in one heck of a hurry, cleaned bowl returned him to it. Then > >> got tank done and put him in. He ate a little last night and now > >> today he is laying on bottom sideways breathing very fast. When I > >> went near he bolted like a nutcase around his tank. I realize he is > >> prob done for and a hundred things could be wrong with him but just > >> thought I'd share and see if anyone could help. gotten to like the > >> little guy :( thanks Erin > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > >> > >> Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 > >> 2:46:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 > Tested on: 11/17/2008 11:37:42 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 > Tested on: 11/18/2008 1:38:57 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33176	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

No, Linda, that's part of the tank. I flipped the photo so you could all see how long it is.   A lot of tanks here have black trims   Lisa   Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33177	From: roshan corda	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: brush algae infestation

Try putting an algae eating fish in the aquarium. Possibly a pleco(aka sucker fish, as known in my locality) --- On Tue, 18/11/08, vishwanath preetham <vpreeth666us@...> wrote: From: vishwanath preetham <vpreeth666us@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] brush algae infestation To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 18 November, 2008, 1:17 PM Hi, I've a 2ft*1ft*1ft planted tank and couple of fishes only. I've a issue at hand that is my aquarium has a brush algae infestation . Anubias was initially infested but I gave the plant a Bleach bath, though the algae is not gone its turned to light gray from black or dark green. Now I find these on the sides of aquarium and on the gravel to. I've changed the water several time and used H2O2 in safe limits in the aquarium but in vein. Need your help on this . Any suggestion to control brush algae is appreciated Thanks Preetham Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33178	From: sunfish3714	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: brush algae infestation

Jungle makes a product for killing algae, but it might be only effective on non-fillamentous algaes. Its worth a try, at least. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, roshan corda <roshan_corda1984@...> wrote: > > Try putting an algae eating fish in the aquarium. > Possibly a pleco(aka sucker fish, as known in my locality) > > --- On Tue, 18/11/08, vishwanath preetham <vpreeth666us@...> wrote: > > From: vishwanath preetham <vpreeth666us@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] brush algae infestation > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, 18 November, 2008, 1:17 PM > > > > > > > Hi, > > I've a 2ft*1ft*1ft planted tank and couple of fishes only. > > I've a issue at hand that is my aquarium has a brush algae > infestation . Anubias was initially infested but I gave the plant a > Bleach bath, though the algae is not gone its turned to light gray > from black or dark green. > > Now I find these on the sides of aquarium and on the gravel to. I've changed the water several time and used H2O2 in safe limits in the aquarium but in vein. > > Need your help on this . Any suggestion to control brush algae is appreciated > > Thanks > Preetham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33179	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

Omega apparently makes an entire line of fish food. Which ones for which fish? I believe I've tried Spectrum - teh fish wouldn't touch it, and I thought it tasted way too bland. When feeding peas, do you cook them? I've tried it both ways. It looks as if you're supposed ot feed them raw, but raw peas are hard to get into small enough pieces for the tetras. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Omega, it shall be. Now where to buy it? Direct?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33180	From: jett07002	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Clown loaches eating my plants

I have to agree with Donna. If you want the plants, the clowns have to go, and vice versa. That goes with almost any fish that likes to nibble on plants. It doesn't matter how much you feed them, it is their natural instinct to graze. Like water cows, goats, sheep, LOL. The only other alternative, which could get tiring, is to keep replacing the plants. I am sure the fish wont mind!! If you use the plants from outside be careful. I have done it once or twice cause the plants were so beautiful I couldn't resist. But it's something you have to take your time with. Plant them in a tank all by themselves, proper lighting, fertilizer, etc., be patient, and I would say in a 2 to 3 week period, maybe even a month, if you don't see any critters on them you could use them for the aquarium. Maybe someone don't agree with the time period, but I kept mine in a separate tank for a month----maybe it was longer, don't remember,---- but I wanted to be sure not to contaminate the aquarium. Then again, I had the room and the spare tanks. Good luck. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I'd say you are going to have to decide between the clowns and the swords. > I don't have mine yet, but hopefully it will regrow once the clowns are > gone? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Clown loaches eating my plants > > > > Donna so what should i do? > > and the weather outside is warmer that inside my home sense i live in > south florida and i don't use a water heater in my tanks > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > If you've got something eating your plants, shouldn't you solve that > problem > > before introducing more plants? > > > > > > > > Outdoor plants will come with diseases and parasites as you suspect. In > > addition, they are acclimated to a colder habitat than your tank. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown loaches eating my plants > > > > > > > > Hey guys > > > > I have an issue with my clown loaches there killing my amazon sword > > plants.. the plants look like i had caterpillar eating them. is there > > anything i can do to stop them? or are my amazon dead in the water? > > > > My budget has gone down the tube.. if you guys have any plants to > > share i will pay fro shipping. > > > > Btw guys i was looking in the fresh water canal next to my home and i > > saw some Anubias and java moss but i don't know if i cant bring them > > into my tank. i fear spreading diseases and parasites. Is there any > > treatment i can give those plants so i can put em in my tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33181	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

They have them labeled for which kind of fish.. for example, Goldfish Pellets. I'm not going to ask how you found out the Spectrum food tasted too bland. I use frozen peas.. either Green Giant or store brand. Defrost them in some hot tap water. For big fish, just pinch the skin to pop out the two halves into the tank. For small fish, pinch the skin to pop out the two halves onto a plate, then use a fork to mash them a little and scrape the mashed peas into the tank. They shouldn't have that much trouble since the pea "meat" is kind of soft. If it was one of their fellow fish friends dead in the tank, they'd happily munch on him and he's bigger than a pea. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas Omega apparently makes an entire line of fish food. Which ones for which fish? I believe I've tried Spectrum - teh fish wouldn't touch it, and I thought it tasted way too bland. When feeding peas, do you cook them? I've tried it both ways. It looks as if you're supposed ot feed them raw, but raw peas are hard to get into small enough pieces for the tetras. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Omega, it shall be. Now where to buy it? Direct? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 10:42:44 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33182	From: bill1433	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Omega One Freshwater Flakes Fish Food

Anyone wanting to buy or has interest in this food that Lenny suggested tonight its here:   http://www.petsmart.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=omega%20one&origkw=Omega%20One&sr=1   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33183	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

How do Hikari and Red Tiny Bits rate? I've noticed that red tiny bits has a tendency to mold if it sits on the tank bottom, which probably means it doesn't have a lot of preservatives. How do Omega One and Ocean Nutrition rate on color enhancers? Also, if it isn't sufficiently tiny, my tetras won't eat it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Nutrafin Max has the following ingredients.. and you'll see meals and flours as the first several ingredients. They are better than Tetra but not nearly as good as Omega One, Ocean Nutrition or some of the other good brands. Nutrafin Max Complete Food Flakes Ingredients Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Pre-Digested Plankton, Soy Protein Concentrate, Corn Flour Oat Meal, Squid Meal, Fish Liver Meal, Soy Flour, Wheat Gluten Meal, Krill, Dried Yeast, Squid Liver Meal, Shrimp Meal, Fish Oil, Laver Aquatic Plant, Amino Acid, Wheat Germ Meal, Lecithin, Vanillin, Chlorophyll, Citric Acid, Vitamins A, D3, E, B1, B2, B6, B12, Folic Acid, Vitamin D-Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin C (L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate), Inositol, Biotin, Niacin, Ethyoxyquin (as a preservative). Guaranteed Analysis Crude Protein 44.0% min Crude Fat 5.0% min Crude Fiber 2.0% max Moisture 8.0% max Phosphorus 0.9% max

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33184	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: going out of town for 2 nights

--- On Mon, 11/17/08, Chris <crjm28@...> wrote: From: Chris <crjm28@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] going out of town for 2 nights To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 9:19 PM I'm going out of town, and while I'm not concerned about my fish being fed, I have a tank that is still cycling. I'll be leaving sunday night and won't be back till Tuesday evening. How can I slow the bacteria with out killing them? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33185	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

Petsmart online has an entire line of Omega One. According to http://www.sortprice.com/search-CQ-Fish_Food-Omega_One Not clear which product to get for any particular fish. If I were going to get it for my danios and tetras, which one would I get? (I'm reasonably sure that I did not see Omega One when I was at Petsmart a few days ago.) I do not see it in the new Fosters and Smith catalogue that arrived with my melafix, primafix and protozoan remedies. Planning to stop in at Aquatek today. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Omega, it shall be. Now where to buy it? Direct?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33186	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

I like Hikari foods. I first got some "sinking carnivore pellets" for my catfish but all the other fishes went totally nuts over them and the catfish are lucky to find any at all. I then purchased one of almost everything they make that I thought would be useful and they are all eagerly accepted, though some more than others. The magic ingredient seems to be krill. I have mollies, platies, neons, the corys and the one little German Ram who is now asserting his inner Cichlid by chasing the young platies which are the only ones who acknowledge his presence. Hikari claims their foods will not cause the tank to become cloudy and does not carry parasites or have a foul odor, although you will not think you're dispensing roses, either! Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: bill1433 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:03:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? I think Nutrafin Flakes seem to be a bit higher? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+4293&pcatid=4293 Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 9:49 PM Bill, Bill, Bill.. lol The food I had recommended was Omega One from http://www.omegasea .net/ and not so much because it had a high protein content but because it did NOT have all the filler crap that so many other foods have... like wheat gluten, flours, corn meal, etc. There is a "Formula One" food for marine fish but it's made by Ocean Nutrition and here is their list of FW foods... http://www.oceannut rition.com/ product_fresh. php?lang= en You can browse their many specialty foods and see the ingredients in each. While cheaper food products like Tetra start off with ingredients including various meals, flours, etc., as the first several ingredients, products like Omega One, Ocean Nutrition and others start off with much better ingredients for our fish, like Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp (on my Omega One goldfish pellets)... after all, I haven't seen fish in the wild ever eating wheat flour, corn meal, soy flour, oat meal, etc. I understand some foods need some fillers to keep the food together but I'd rather not the top listed ingredients being the fillers. Here's the ingredients on: Omega One Goldfish Flakes - INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Black Cod, Seafood Mix (Including Rockfish, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2- Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement,Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative) , Ethoxyquin (Preservative) . Guaranteed Analysis Min. Crude Protein�.39% Min. Crude Fat���10% Max. Crude Fiber��.2% Max. Moisture���. 8.5% Max. Ash�����..8 % Min. Phosphorus��.(.5%) Min. Omega 3 ���. 2% Min. Omega 6���...1% Ocean Nutrition Goldfish Flakes - Ingredients - Salmon fillets, Euphasia superba, soya, Euphasia pacifica plankton, wheat flour, wheat germ, adult brine shrimp, sea clams, MPAXTM(Marine Protein Amino eXtract: fish meals, select amino acids (DL-Arginine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Betaine, TL-Tryptophan) ), vitamins (ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), biotin (Vitamin H), Vitamin B12, riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), panthotenic acid (Vitamin B5), menadione (Vitamin K3), folacin (Vitamin B9), cholicalciferol (Vitamin D3), niacin (Vitamin B3), retinol (Vitamin A1), pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)), minerals (potassium iodide, iron oxide, manganese sulfate, magnesium oxide, zinc sulfate), ethoxyquin, carotenoid pigments, kelp, squid, marine algae, Spirulina, tuna eggs, brine shrimp nauplii, salmon egg oil, garlic. Guaranteed Analysis Protein (min) 32.0% Fiber (max) 1.0% Fat (min) 8.2% Ash (max) 6.0% Moisture (max) 8.8% And then Tetra Goldfish Flakes - (NOTE - Tetra does not even provide this info on their own website - http://www.tetrafis h.com/sites/ tetrafish/ catalog/productd etail.aspx? id=1276 <HTTP: id="1276 &cid=33> &cid=33 so I had to find it elsewhere) Ingredients TetraFin goldfish flakes are multi colored nutritional flaked foods that are high in crude protein. It contains a minimum of 42.0% in addition to these: 8.0% crude fat min, 2.0% crude fiber min, 6.5% moisture max, 1.1% phosphorus min. It contains fish meal, ground brown rice, feeding oat meal, shrimp meal, fish oil, algae meal, and this list of other ingredients: torula dried yeast, wheat gluten, soybean oil, sorbitol, lecithin, L-ascorbyL-2, polyphosphate, (vitamin C), yellow 5, red 3, and blue 2. and the preservative Ethoxyquin. (END SNIPS) So... which fish foods sound better? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:07 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Quite a while ago I had a talk with Lenny about flake food. He said that he like a product called Formula One because of its high protein content. I�ve tried but can�t find an appropriate link to purchase it. Those I keep coming up with are for a Marine product. In the meantime, it occurred to me that others might have the same thoughts.. How about it? What are most of you feeding those fish. Especially the Tetra people. Good quality flake food? How about Aquarian products? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 8:49:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ Individual Email | Traditional http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) mailto:AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33187	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

I have too much time on my hands sometimes and I squeeze the pea guts out of their shells. I use canned peas. I'm not really sure about the different omega products the ones that I have are pretty self explanitory ie. Tropical flakes goldfish flakes and pellets and the sper enriched flaked. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:13:24 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas Omega apparently makes an entire line of fish food. Which ones for which fish? I believe I've tried Spectrum - teh fish wouldn't touch it, and I thought it tasted way too bland. When feeding peas, do you cook them? I've tried it both ways. It looks as if you're supposed ot feed them raw, but raw peas are hard to get into small enough pieces for the tetras. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Omega, it shall be. Now where to buy it? Direct? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33188	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

While Hikari has a good name in the fish food products line, even they seem to use more fillers (flour's, meal's, etc.) than some of the better premium brands.. at least the first two ingredients seem to be real fish food items. Here are the ingredients from a bag of Hikari Tropical Algae Wafers (advertised as "Great for Pleco's & Algae Eaters") and I'm reading right from the bag... Ingredients: Fish meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat flour, wheat germ meal, starch, dried seaweeds meal, fish oil, krill meal, dried bakery products (I always wondered about this... a stale loaf of bread??? lol), brewers dried yeast, spirulina, (then lots of other stuff). However, I was looking at their website http://www.Hikariusa.com and they have these Ingredients listed so maybe they've changed their formula a little... http://www.hikariusa.com/products/tropical/tropical_algae_wafers.html Ingredients - White fish meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat flour, wheat-germ meal, alpha starch, dried seaweed meal, fish oil, krill meal,dried bakery product, brewer's dried yeast, spirulina, enzyme, astaxanthin, garlic, monosodium glutamate, vitamins and minerals including stabilized vitamin C. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? I like Hikari foods. I first got some "sinking carnivore pellets" for my catfish but all the other fishes went totally nuts over them and the catfish are lucky to find any at all. I then purchased one of almost everything they make that I thought would be useful and they are all eagerly accepted, though some more than others. The magic ingredient seems to be krill. I have mollies, platies, neons, the corys and the one little German Ram who is now asserting his inner Cichlid by chasing the young platies which are the only ones who acknowledge his presence. Hikari claims their foods will not cause the tank to become cloudy and does not carry parasites or have a foul odor, although you will not think you're dispensing roses, either! Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: bill1433 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:03:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? I think Nutrafin Flakes seem to be a bit higher? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+4293 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+4293&pca tid=4293> &pcatid=4293 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+4293 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+4293&pca tid=4293> &pcatid=4293> Bill --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 9:49 PM Bill, Bill, Bill.. lol The food I had recommended was Omega One from http://www.omegasea.net/ and not so much because it had a high protein content but because it did NOT have all the filler crap that so many other foods have... like wheat gluten, flours, corn meal, etc. There is a "Formula One" food for marine fish but it's made by Ocean Nutrition and here is their list of FW foods... http://www.oceannutrition.com/product_fresh.php?lang=en You can browse their many specialty foods and see the ingredients in each. While cheaper food products like Tetra start off with ingredients including various meals, flours, etc., as the first several ingredients, products like Omega One, Ocean Nutrition and others start off with much better ingredients for our fish, like Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp (on my Omega One goldfish pellets)... after all, I haven't seen fish in the wild ever eating wheat flour, corn meal, soy flour, oat meal, etc. I understand some foods need some fillers to keep the food together but I'd rather not the top listed ingredients being the fillers. Here's the ingredients on: Omega One Goldfish Flakes - INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Black Cod, Seafood Mix (Including Rockfish, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2- Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement,Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative) , Ethoxyquin (Preservative) . Guaranteed Analysis Min. Crude Protein .39% Min. Crude Fat 10% Max. Crude Fiber .2% Max. Moisture . 8.5% Max. Ash ..8 % Min. Phosphorus .(.5%) Min. Omega 3 . 2% Min. Omega 6 ...1% Ocean Nutrition Goldfish Flakes - Ingredients - Salmon fillets, Euphasia superba, soya, Euphasia pacifica plankton, wheat flour, wheat germ, adult brine shrimp, sea clams, MPAXTM(Marine Protein Amino eXtract: fish meals, select amino acids (DL-Arginine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Betaine, TL-Tryptophan) ), vitamins (ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), biotin (Vitamin H), Vitamin B12, riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), panthotenic acid (Vitamin B5), menadione (Vitamin K3), folacin (Vitamin B9), cholicalciferol (Vitamin D3), niacin (Vitamin B3), retinol (Vitamin A1), pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)), minerals (potassium iodide, iron oxide, manganese sulfate, magnesium oxide, zinc sulfate), ethoxyquin, carotenoid pigments, kelp, squid, marine algae, Spirulina, tuna eggs, brine shrimp nauplii, salmon egg oil, garlic. Guaranteed Analysis Protein (min) 32.0% Fiber (max) 1.0% Fat (min) 8.2% Ash (max) 6.0% Moisture (max) 8.8% And then Tetra Goldfish Flakes - (NOTE - Tetra does not even provide this info on their own website - http://www.tetrafis h.com/sites/ tetrafish/ catalog/productd etail.aspx? id=1276 <HTTP: id="1276 &cid=33> &cid=33 so I had to find it elsewhere) Ingredients TetraFin goldfish flakes are multi colored nutritional flaked foods that are high in crude protein. It contains a minimum of 42.0% in addition to these: 8.0% crude fat min, 2.0% crude fiber min, 6.5% moisture max, 1.1% phosphorus min. It contains fish meal, ground brown rice, feeding oat meal, shrimp meal, fish oil, algae meal, and this list of other ingredients: torula dried yeast, wheat gluten, soybean oil, sorbitol, lecithin, L-ascorbyL-2, polyphosphate, (vitamin C), yellow 5, red 3, and blue 2. and the preservative Ethoxyquin. (END SNIPS) So... which fish foods sound better? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 8:07 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Quite a while ago I had a talk with Lenny about flake food. He said that he like a product called Formula One because of its high protein content. I ve tried but can t find an appropriate link to purchase it. Those I keep coming up with are for a Marine product. In the meantime, it occurred to me that others might have the same thoughts.. How about it? What are most of you feeding those fish. Especially the Tetra people. Good quality flake food? How about Aquarian products? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 11:02:13 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33189	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

My local PetsMart carries several varieties of Omega One products. Lets see... danios and tetras are usually grouped in with tropical fish so I'm guessing tropical fish flakes? DFS seems to have a deal with Ocean Nutrition which carries a similar product line to Omega One so if you like to shop at DFS, look for the Ocean Nutrition product for the type of fish you are buying for. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Petsmart online has an entire line of Omega One. According to http://www.sortprice.com/search-CQ-Fish_Food-Omega_One <http://www.sortprice.com/search-CQ-Fish_Food-Omega_One> Not clear which product to get for any particular fish. If I were going to get it for my danios and tetras, which one would I get? (I'm reasonably sure that I did not see Omega One when I was at Petsmart a few days ago.) I do not see it in the new Fosters and Smith catalogue that arrived with my melafix, primafix and protozoan remedies. Planning to stop in at Aquatek today. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Omega, it shall be. Now where to buy it? Direct? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 11:06:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33190	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

I always pinch the pea to only feed them the "meat" and discard the skin... although my goldfish have inadvertently gotten a whole pea when it might have slipped from my fingers. I'm not sure if all fish have them but goldfish have a tooth like bone at the back of their mouth to chew food before swallowing but the entire purposed of feeding the pea "meat" is to help their digestive systems and the skin is supposed to be much harder to digest so it's best NOT to feed the skin. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas I have too much time on my hands sometimes and I squeeze the pea guts out of their shells. I use canned peas. I'm not really sure about the different omega products the ones that I have are pretty self explanitory ie. Tropical flakes goldfish flakes and pellets and the sper enriched flaked. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:13:24 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas Omega apparently makes an entire line of fish food. Which ones for which fish? I believe I've tried Spectrum - teh fish wouldn't touch it, and I thought it tasted way too bland. When feeding peas, do you cook them? I've tried it both ways. It looks as if you're supposed ot feed them raw, but raw peas are hard to get into small enough pieces for the tetras. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Omega, it shall be. Now where to buy it? Direct? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 11:10:20 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33191	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

I believe I've tried Spectrum - teh fish wouldn't touch it, and I thought it tasted way too bland. Wow! Your bold tasting fish flakes. I've tasted my dog's food once, and cannot imagine what she loves about it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33192	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a

Allie1068 and others... For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to <http://www.PetsMart.com> http://www.PetsMart.com and print the online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... BUT... the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products since the above examples are both API products. Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if I can't get bargains. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 11:25:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33193	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

I'll not tell you how hilarious it was when my wife tested an electronic bark collar (gives a shock when the dog barks) on herself several years ago. She hates it when I bring it up <G>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas I believe I've tried Spectrum - teh fish wouldn't touch it, and I thought it tasted way too bland. Wow! Your bold tasting fish flakes. I've tasted my dog's food once, and cannot imagine what she loves about it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33194	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: brush algae infestation

Here's an old thread from TheKrib.com that has lots of suggestions, along with a few other links that might be helpful. You may have already read this since you tried the H2O2 already. Have you tried squirting the H2O2 dose directly on the brush algae with a syringe? http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hair-algae.html http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/ (General article with all kinds of info) Your tank is too small for common plecos but you might be able to fit a dwarf pleco like a Clown Pleco http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html which only grow to around 4-5" but they are wide-bodied fish so they would use up much of your bioload space since your tank is only 15 gallons U.S. A shoal of Oto's (affinis) http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html might be better as algae eaters and although you should get five of these, their total bioload would be much less than a single Clown Pleco. Do NOT use bottled algae killing chemicals... except for the H2O2 that you've tried. BTW.. was your Hydrogen Peroxide fresh? I know that once you open a bottle, it will start to outgas and become "flat" if not capped tightly. I've seen too many horror stories about using the bottled algae killing products at pets stores. If you ever decide to break down the tank (putting the fish in a holding tank) to clean the algae completely from the tank and plants, you can use the sanitizing/disinfecting links that I have on my recent blog article about Planted Tanks for beginners. It's the third blog down on my main page.. right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vishwanath preetham Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] brush algae infestation Hi, I've a 2ft*1ft*1ft planted tank and couple of fishes only. I've a issue at hand that is my aquarium has a brush algae infestation . Anubias was initially infested but I gave the plant a Bleach bath, though the algae is not gone its turned to light gray from black or dark green. Now I find these on the sides of aquarium and on the gravel to. I've changed the water several time and used H2O2 in safe limits in the aquarium but in vein. Need your help on this . Any suggestion to control brush algae is appreciated Thanks Preetham _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 11:43:36 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33195	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

And now you've told the world. LOL Tell her I said Ruff! (btw.. that means "Hi!") But the bigger question... did it shut her up? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas I'll not tell you how hilarious it was when my wife tested an electronic bark collar (gives a shock when the dog barks) on herself several years ago. She hates it when I bring it up <G>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas I believe I've tried Spectrum - teh fish wouldn't touch it, and I thought it tasted way too bland. Wow! Your bold tasting fish flakes. I've tasted my dog's food once, and cannot imagine what she loves about it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 11:50:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33196	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:

I don't know that I would call them 'puddles'... slow moving shallow river/ backwater edges and rice paddies is what I have read that they live in, in the wild. In a message dated 11/18/2008 4:26:59 AM Central Standard Time, bbelikove@... writes: so does this mean that bettas breath both from the air and through the water? i know that bettas developed the ability to breath air due to living in small "mud" puddles which also explains their severe territorial behaviors as well as their ability to live in very small confines. I didn't know they also have the ability to breath as any other fish would: ie: through the gills...thanks for the info by the way. **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33197	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

Lenny, About 6 weeks ago PetSmart online prices were increased to be close to the same as the in store prices.  Up until that time PetSmart online seemed to be very competitive with other online sites, but not anymore.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25:50 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer Allie1068 and others... For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to <http://www.PetsMart .com> http://www.PetsMart .com and print the online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... BUT... the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like <http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com> http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products since the above examples are both API products. Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if I can't get bargains. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 11:25:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33198	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

WOW... that's not a good sign for PetsMart. I guess I could understand if they would have taken away the online price-match for the stores but now I have little reason to look at their website and even less of a reason to go into the local store since I mostly only went in there with a plan to buy products that I was interested in from their website prices. Usually, I might do an impulsive buy while at the local store so they'll lose that from me and others as well. I even bought a clearance priced Halloween T-shirt for my dog... only $2.00 and he doesn't know it's a Halloween theme. And no, I don't usually put my dog in clothes but I'm hoping the t-shirt will keep some of his hair off my furniture.... another advanced bachelor cleaning method. If it works, then I'll buy him normal t-shirts. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer Lenny, About 6 weeks ago PetSmart online prices were increased to be close to the same as the in store prices. Up until that time PetSmart online seemed to be very competitive with other online sites, but not anymore. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25:50 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer Allie1068 and others... For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to <http://www.PetsMart .com> http://www.PetsMart .com and print the online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... BUT... the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like <http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com> http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products since the above examples are both API products. Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if I can't get bargains. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 12:26:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33199	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

I would say do not cook them simply because cooking takes away many of the nutrients. Canned peas probably have almost 0 nutrients. A chopper should work for the tetras, ever mince raw ginger?? LOL Just keep chopping and piling, chopping and piling til it is small enough :) Laura In a message dated 11/18/2008 10:35:32 AM Central Standard Time, tiggernut24@... writes: When feeding peas, do you cook them? I've tried it both ways. It looks as if you're supposed ot feed them raw, but raw peas are hard to get into small enough pieces for the tetras. **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33200	From: Mark Hough	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

I can't let you know... I shop my LFS vs the big box outlets. Yeah, you may pay a little more but without them people's pets will suffer. I can't tell you how many times I've corrected advice/mistakes due to the big box employees' suggestions - or should I say - lack of knowledge... Simply said, shop your local fish store it at all possible. Peace! On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > Allie1068 and others... > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > <http://www.PetsMart.com> http://www.PetsMart.com and print the online > prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices > were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... BUT... > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as the > online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are not as > much of a bargain compared to other online sites like > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com (DFS) so I'm > wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to > make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at > online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for $6.99 and > PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had the same shelf > price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test Kit that had a > PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same price. PetsMart.com > used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart > just raised their prices on API products since the above examples are both > API products. > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf prices > compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if I can't get > bargains. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 > Tested on: 11/18/2008 11:25:50 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33201	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: pH problem

my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have now, but i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to neutral, i have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't worked, and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and that hasn't worked the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has petco pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and and anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped around it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would be keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could suggest to help sove my problem i would appreciate it

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33202	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

Have to agree. They love the Krill. My SW mollies love it, plus the guppies, frog female Betta and neon teras in the FW tank. I get the soft stuff by HBH. Laura In a message dated 11/18/2008 10:47:05 AM Central Standard Time, Dreamsteeds@... writes: The magic ingredient seems to be krill. **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33203	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

I have very bright fish, Lenny. (Petsmart's finest.) I asked them why they were turning up their noses, and they told me. They pointed their mouths at me, the way they do, and words came out. A group of them lined up under the log with their eyes and mouths facing me, teh way they do, and they spoke together, and this made it possible for me to hear them. What, you've never heard a group of tetras talk? LOL! Seriously, I tasted it. Nothing wrong with tasting fish food out of the can! Do you mash raw peas. I tried that, ended up with big chunks. Fish were carrying them around, and they ended up on the bottom of the tank. Hopefully the fish had eaten bites of it. I picked up more big chunks of pea when I suctioned ou tthe tank. They didnt have the same problem with the cooked salmon I fed them last night. They carried that around too, but they soon broke it into smaller pieces that they were eating. The pieces that made it to the bottom got picked up and batted aroudn by the smaller danios until they broke up and the fish grabbed the pieces. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:42 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas They have them labeled for which kind of fish.. for example, Goldfish Pellets. I'm not going to ask how you found out the Spectrum food tasted too bland. I use frozen peas.. either Green Giant or store brand. Defrost them in some hot tap water. For big fish, just pinch the skin to pop out the two halves into the tank. For small fish, pinch the skin to pop out the two halves onto a plate, then use a fork to mash them a little and scrape the mashed peas into the tank. They shouldn't have that much trouble since the pea "meat" is kind of soft. If it was one of their fellow fish friends dead in the tank, they'd happily munch on him and he's bigger than a pea. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33204	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

Many angelfish are now being bred/raised in water other than their preferred type so they may be more acclimated to your water than you think. Do a little research into where your retail outlet is getting their angelfish and if they are getting them from farms that have a pH nearer to yours, you may not have a major problem. Now, you may not get yours to breed without mimicking the right changes in water parameters but they may do OK otherwise. DO NOT use those bottled chemical pH adjusters. As you've seen, they mostly do NOT work. You have a few options that might work. Getting an RO unit or buying distilled water, then mix the water with your tap to get the desired pH. What are the test results (pH, GH, KH) on the distilled water you've been using? What are your tank's pH, GH, KH and your tap water 48 hour baseline test results? Your other options included adding peat moss to your filter which will soften the water and lower the pH slowly. You could also brew peat tea in a separate large container (like a new 30G garbage can) and use that water mixed with your tap water to get the desired water parameters. But.. back to the beginning.. it would be best if you do NOT have to alter your chemistry at all as that is easier on you and safer for the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have now, but i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to neutral, i have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't worked, and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and that hasn't worked the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has petco pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and and anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped around it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would be keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could suggest to help sove my problem i would appreciate it _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 12:37:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33205	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

Oops.. one other thing. You do know that Angelfish get BIG? They do NOT stay dime sized like you see at the pet stores. A 35G tall tank would be the minimum size tank for a single adult angelfish. Read the middle section of this page for the "common" angelfish - http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have now, but i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to neutral, i have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't worked, and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and that hasn't worked the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has petco pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and and anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped around it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would be keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could suggest to help sove my problem i would appreciate it _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 12:39:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33206	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

"But the bigger question... did it shut her up?" Momentarily. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas And now you've told the world. LOL Tell her I said Ruff! (btw.. that means "Hi!") But the bigger question... did it shut her up? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas I'll not tell you how hilarious it was when my wife tested an electronic bark collar (gives a shock when the dog barks) on herself several years ago. She hates it when I bring it up <G>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas I believe I've tried Spectrum - teh fish wouldn't touch it, and I thought it tasted way too bland. Wow! Your bold tasting fish flakes. I've tasted my dog's food once, and cannot imagine what she loves about it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

Well.. if it's true that PetsMart.com has raised their prices, my LFS will be getting more of my impulsive business but I'm a capitalist pig at heart so the LFS needs to be more competitive on their dry good prices to get me shopping there compared to lower priced options. I do get my fish from them but I haven't bought any new fish in a while... since Katrina, except for the little Clown Pleco I got a few months ago. He's finally starting to catch up on the algae growth I had let build-up from the time I traded in my BIG common pleco until I decided on which dwarf pleco I was going to get. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer I can't let you know... I shop my LFS vs the big box outlets. Yeah, you may pay a little more but without them people's pets will suffer. I can't tell you how many times I've corrected advice/mistakes due to the big box employees' suggestions - or should I say - lack of knowledge... Simply said, shop your local fish store it at all possible. Peace! On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Allie1068 and others... > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> > > > http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> and print the > online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... BUT... > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as > the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> > > > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> (DFS) > so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the > board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when > looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it > for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart > had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test > Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same > price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS > does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products since the above examples are both API products. > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf > prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if > I can't get bargains. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 12:44:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33208	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

The tropical flakes unfortunatly petsmart has a lot more online than they do in the actual stores Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:51:54 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Petsmart online has an entire line of Omega One. According to http://www.sortprice.com/search-CQ-Fish_Food-Omega_One Not clear which product to get for any particular fish. If I were going to get it for my danios and tetras, which one would I get? (I'm reasonably sure that I did not see Omega One when I was at Petsmart a few days ago.) I do not see it in the new Fosters and Smith catalogue that arrived with my melafix, primafix and protozoan remedies. Planning to stop in at Aquatek today. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Omega, it shall be. Now where to buy it? Direct? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33209	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

Alpha starch? Well, thanks for the evaluation. RTB Red tiny bits says it contains salmon meal, shrimp meal, wheat flour, dried brine shrimp nauphtli, hydrolized soybean meal, silkworm pupae meal, carotene, fish oil, spirulina, garlic, lecithin, and a whole long list of vitamins. And a phosphate. Tehir nutritional analysis does not include teh amount of phosphate. It has soem good ingredients, but alot of flour, and little vegetable matter, and it seems like they shouldn't need soy protein if they've got all that fish meal. Now, hikari micro pellets contains fish meal, wheat flour, flaked corn, gluten meal, brewers dried yeast, krill meal, spirulina, sucrose esters of fatty acids (????), dehyrdated alfalfa meal, dried seaweeds meal, enzyme, garlic,... MSG.. and a longer list of vitamins and minerals. No wonder someone on a microscopy list wanted to know if the fish could have succumbed to melamine poisoning. Micro wafers are similar but not identical. Only think about Omega - it appears to only come in flake? I don't know if there's some advantage to that, but the fish quickly break flakes apart and much of it ends up in the gravel, and it's harder to suction right back out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? While Hikari has a good name in the fish food products line, even they seem to use more fillers (flour's, meal's, etc.) than some of the better premium brands.. at least the first two ingredients seem to be real fish food items. Here are the ingredients from a bag of Hikari Tropical Algae Wafers (advertised as "Great for Pleco's & Algae Eaters") and I'm reading right from the bag... Ingredients: Fish meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat flour, wheat germ meal, starch, dried seaweeds meal, fish oil, krill meal, dried bakery products (I always wondered about this... a stale loaf of bread??? lol), brewers dried yeast, spirulina, (then lots of other stuff). However, I was looking at their website http://www.Hikariusa.com and they have these Ingredients listed so maybe they've changed their formula a little... http://www.hikariusa.com/products/tropical/tropical_algae_wafers.html Ingredients - White fish meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat flour, wheat-germ meal, alpha starch, dried seaweed meal, fish oil, krill meal,dried bakery product, brewer's dried yeast, spirulina, enzyme, astaxanthin, garlic, monosodium glutamate, vitamins and minerals including stabilized vitamin C. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33210	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

I noticed this as well. In fact I prefer not to order from PetSmart, because they ship VEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRYYYYY slowly. Their price on that heater we were talking about was nearly twice that most other sellers were asking for it. I didn't believe it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer Allie1068 and others... For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to <http://www.PetsMart.com> http://www.PetsMart.com and print the online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... BUT... the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make them the same as

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food? and whether to cook peas

Well.. even that might have kept me married a little longer. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas "But the bigger question... did it shut her up?" Momentarily. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas And now you've told the world. LOL Tell her I said Ruff! (btw.. that means "Hi!") But the bigger question... did it shut her up? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas I'll not tell you how hilarious it was when my wife tested an electronic bark collar (gives a shock when the dog barks) on herself several years ago. She hates it when I bring it up <G>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? and whether to cook peas I believe I've tried Spectrum - teh fish wouldn't touch it, and I thought it tasted way too bland. Wow! Your bold tasting fish flakes. I've tasted my dog's food once, and cannot imagine what she loves about it. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 12:48:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Food?

I'm not sure what you mean by "Alpha starch"? I'm not sure where you're looking but if you go to the main Omega One site at http://www.omegasea.net/products.html, you'll see a large variety of food types.. not just flakes.... look at the links on the left. You might be interested in the Pelleted Foods since you mentioned them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? Alpha starch? Well, thanks for the evaluation. RTB Red tiny bits says it contains salmon meal, shrimp meal, wheat flour, dried brine shrimp nauphtli, hydrolized soybean meal, silkworm pupae meal, carotene, fish oil, spirulina, garlic, lecithin, and a whole long list of vitamins. And a phosphate. Tehir nutritional analysis does not include teh amount of phosphate. It has soem good ingredients, but alot of flour, and little vegetable matter, and it seems like they shouldn't need soy protein if they've got all that fish meal. Now, hikari micro pellets contains fish meal, wheat flour, flaked corn, gluten meal, brewers dried yeast, krill meal, spirulina, sucrose esters of fatty acids (????), dehyrdated alfalfa meal, dried seaweeds meal, enzyme, garlic,... MSG.. and a longer list of vitamins and minerals. No wonder someone on a microscopy list wanted to know if the fish could have succumbed to melamine poisoning. Micro wafers are similar but not identical. Only think about Omega - it appears to only come in flake? I don't know if there's some advantage to that, but the fish quickly break flakes apart and much of it ends up in the gravel, and it's harder to suction right back out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Food? While Hikari has a good name in the fish food products line, even they seem to use more fillers (flour's, meal's, etc.) than some of the better premium brands.. at least the first two ingredients seem to be real fish food items. Here are the ingredients from a bag of Hikari Tropical Algae Wafers (advertised as "Great for Pleco's & Algae Eaters") and I'm reading right from the bag... Ingredients: Fish meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat flour, wheat germ meal, starch, dried seaweeds meal, fish oil, krill meal, dried bakery products (I always wondered about this... a stale loaf of bread??? lol), brewers dried yeast, spirulina, (then lots of other stuff). However, I was looking at their website http://www.Hikariusa.com <http://www.Hikariusa.com> and they have these Ingredients listed so maybe they've changed their formula a little... http://www.hikariusa.com/products/tropical/tropical_algae_wafers.html <http://www.hikariusa.com/products/tropical/tropical_algae_wafers.html> Ingredients - White fish meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat flour, wheat-germ meal, alpha starch, dried seaweed meal, fish oil, krill meal,dried bakery product, brewer's dried yeast, spirulina, enzyme, astaxanthin, garlic, monosodium glutamate, vitamins and minerals including stabilized vitamin C. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ----- ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 12:47:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 12:53:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33213	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

Lenny, Any drop in sales, they'll likely attribute it to the economic conditions and not the change in their pricing strategy. If I were a stockholder, and the former strategy was having no ill effects on the bottom line, I'd dump my holdings now. Regular T-shirts? Don't you mean Lil' Bow-Wow T-shirts? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer WOW... that's not a good sign for PetsMart. I guess I could understand if they would have taken away the online price-match for the stores but now I have little reason to look at their website and even less of a reason to go into the local store since I mostly only went in there with a plan to buy products that I was interested in from their website prices. Usually, I might do an impulsive buy while at the local store so they'll lose that from me and others as well. I even bought a clearance priced Halloween T-shirt for my dog... only $2.00 and he doesn't know it's a Halloween theme. And no, I don't usually put my dog in clothes but I'm hoping the t-shirt will keep some of his hair off my furniture.... another advanced bachelor cleaning method. If it works, then I'll buy him normal t-shirts. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer Lenny, About 6 weeks ago PetSmart online prices were increased to be close to the same as the in store prices. Up until that time PetSmart online seemed to be very competitive with other online sites, but not anymore. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25:50 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer Allie1068 and others... For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to <http://www.PetsMart .com> http://www.PetsMart .com and print the online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... BUT... the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like <http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com> http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products since the above examples are both API products. Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if I can't get bargains. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33214	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:

Well i used the term puddles to describe it the best i could. As I understand it, the bodies of water the bettas typically live in are less than a foot across and very shallow. When water levels start to drop the puddle (for lack of a better term) because very muddy and hard to breath in. Any normal fish would die, but the ability to breath air keeps them alive. If another betta happens to find his way into an already occupied puddle (by flopping from puddle to puddle or whatever) that is barely big enough for 1, the 2 become very territorial for fear of their lives and the only available body of water. Hence why they fight to the death and why they're able to be comfortable in such small shallow bowls. i dont believe they're more comfortable in a 1/2 gallon bowl then they would be in a 10 gallon tank, but i do believe due to the nature of their being and their evolutionary background it is acceptable. I could totally be wrong as I've never actively researched them, so please chime in if so. Anyway, my choice of the word puddle is pretty accurate when describing the situation above. On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 9:44 AM, <AwlArtist@...> wrote: > > I don't know that I would call them 'puddles'... slow moving shallow river/ > > backwater edges and rice paddies is what I have read that they live in, in > the > wild. > > > In a message dated 11/18/2008 4:26:59 AM Central Standard Time, > bbelikove@... <bbelikove%40gmail.com> writes: > > so does this mean that bettas breath both from the air and through the > water? i know that bettas developed the ability to breath air due to living > in small "mud" puddles which also explains their severe territorial > behaviors as well as their ability to live in very small confines. I > didn't know they also have the ability to breath as any other fish would: > ie: through the gills...thanks for the info by the way. > > **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from > blockbuster.com > ( > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer > ) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33215	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

A business like PetsMart has enough buying power so they can purchase a much lower prices than your LFS and even sell the products for less than your LFS can get them while still making a profit. When they first came into the area I was living in at the time, They were selling goods at prices so low that the mom & pops went to them to purchase some stock since the prices were lower than the mom and pops were paying their distributors. They drove enough of them out of business, and then started raising their pricing on the goods they had on the shelves. (This was pre web stores--actually, pretty much pre-web.) I knew a couple of guys who thought they could beat them at their own game, but, unfortunately, they did not have the financial wherewithal to do so. They ended up in bankruptcy. Even though they had higher quality and better service than the big boxes (PetsMart and Petco), they still lost because the American consumer makes decisions based on price pretty much alone, often to our detriment. We'd probably have much cooler fish available to us, if we were willing to pay the price, much as the Japanese and Germans do. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer Well.. if it's true that PetsMart.com has raised their prices, my LFS will be getting more of my impulsive business but I'm a capitalist pig at heart so the LFS needs to be more competitive on their dry good prices to get me shopping there compared to lower priced options. I do get my fish from them but I haven't bought any new fish in a while... since Katrina, except for the little Clown Pleco I got a few months ago. He's finally starting to catch up on the algae growth I had let build-up from the time I traded in my BIG common pleco until I decided on which dwarf pleco I was going to get. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer I can't let you know... I shop my LFS vs the big box outlets. Yeah, you may pay a little more but without them people's pets will suffer. I can't tell you how many times I've corrected advice/mistakes due to the big box employees' suggestions - or should I say - lack of knowledge... Simply said, shop your local fish store it at all possible. Peace! On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Allie1068 and others... > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> > > > http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> and print the > online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... BUT... > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as > the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> > > > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> (DFS) > so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the > board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when > looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it > for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart > had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test > Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same > price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS > does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products since the above examples are both API products. > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf > prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if > I can't get bargains. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33216	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local P

Hey Lenny try feeding your dog more omega 3's, that can help with the shedding a little bit at least. My jack russell is a very big shedder and there's white hairs all over, but I have noticed since upping his Omega 3 treats that he doesn't shed quite so bad any more. Also the shirt probably won't make him shed any less, but depending on the material it may not "collect" the hair either ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > WOW... that's not a good sign for PetsMart. I guess I could understand if > they would have taken away the online price-match for the stores but now I > have little reason to look at their website and even less of a reason > to go > into the local store since I mostly only went in there with a plan to buy > products that I was interested in from their website prices. Usually, I > might do an impulsive buy while at the local store so they'll lose > that from > me and others as well. I even bought a clearance priced Halloween T-shirt > for my dog... only $2.00 and he doesn't know it's a Halloween theme. And > no, I don't usually put my dog in clothes but I'm hoping the t-shirt will > keep some of his hair off my furniture.... another advanced bachelor > cleaning method. If it works, then I'll buy him normal t-shirts. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > Lenny, About 6 weeks ago PetSmart online prices were increased to be close > to the same as the in store prices. Up until that time PetSmart online > seemed to be very competitive with other online sites, but not anymore. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > ________________________________ > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25:50 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > Allie1068 and others... > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > <http://www.PetsMart .com> http://www.PetsMart .com and print the online > prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices > were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... BUT... > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as the > online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > not as > much of a bargain compared to other online sites like <http://www.DrsFoste > rSmith.com> http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if > PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make them the > same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at online > prices for > a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for $6.99 and PetsMart.com > had it > for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had the same shelf price. I also noticed > this on the API Master Test Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of > $29.99 and > the store had the same price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 > range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API > products since the above examples are both API products. > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf prices > compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if I > can't get > bargains. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > _ > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 > Tested on: 11/18/2008 12:26:00 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33217	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

Angels are a magnificent fish. However, if you do not have the water parameters to keep them, you really cannot keep them. Playing god with you water will only humble you. Your Seachem failed to reduce the buffering capacity of your water, which would reduce the pH. The problem with reducing the buffer is twofold. First, you will need to do this constantly, and watch it like a hawk. Second, you are likely to break the buffer completely, which will lead to a sudden reduction of the pH usually by far too much and too quickly to be helpful to any fish in the tank. Your best bet is to look for fish that will live happily in the water that you already have. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have now, but i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to neutral, i have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't worked, and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and that hasn't worked the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has petco pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and and anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped around it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would be keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could suggest to help sove my problem i would appreciate it

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33218	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

The thing I still do not understand anout the pricing 5 years later is that the prices vary from each district not all stores may have thhe same price. Districts aren't always made up by state either there may be a district made up by a couple states. It all depends on the cost of living and things like that. I haven't seen any increases on prices for my aquatics in some time now. As far as the knowledge base it all varies depending on the store and boils down to the management. We take our fish very seriously and are fortunate enough to have a staff that does as well. We are all fish keepers and try to learn all the time. We aren't all knowing by any means but myself and my fellow managers understand and keep the fishies best interest first. As a matter of fact I personally just got a customer that called corp and complained about me because I refused to sell him the fish he wanted after him insisting that putting mollies platies and 2 rainbow sharks would work well with his 8 inch red devil and 9 inch tiger Oscar. Like anything else it all depends where its at and how its run. In an ideal world it would be perfect. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:12:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer A business like PetsMart has enough buying power so they can purchase a much lower prices than your LFS and even sell the products for less than your LFS can get them while still making a profit. When they first came into the area I was living in at the time, They were selling goods at prices so low that the mom & pops went to them to purchase some stock since the prices were lower than the mom and pops were paying their distributors. They drove enough of them out of business, and then started raising their pricing on the goods they had on the shelves. (This was pre web stores--actually, pretty much pre-web.) I knew a couple of guys who thought they could beat them at their own game, but, unfortunately, they did not have the financial wherewithal to do so. They ended up in bankruptcy. Even though they had higher quality and better service than the big boxes (PetsMart and Petco), they still lost because the American consumer makes decisions based on price pretty much alone, often to our detriment. We'd probably have much cooler fish available to us, if we were willing to pay the price, much as the Japanese and Germans do. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer Well.. if it's true that PetsMart.com has raised their prices, my LFS will be getting more of my impulsive business but I'm a capitalist pig at heart so the LFS needs to be more competitive on their dry good prices to get me shopping there compared to lower priced options. I do get my fish from them but I haven't bought any new fish in a while... since Katrina, except for the little Clown Pleco I got a few months ago. He's finally starting to catch up on the algae growth I had let build-up from the time I traded in my BIG common pleco until I decided on which dwarf pleco I was going to get. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer I can't let you know... I shop my LFS vs the big box outlets. Yeah, you may pay a little more but without them people's pets will suffer. I can't tell you how many times I've corrected advice/mistakes due to the big box employees' suggestions - or should I say - lack of knowledge... Simply said, shop your local fish store it at all possible. Peace! On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Allie1068 and others... > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> > > > http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> and print the > online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... BUT... > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as > the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> > > > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> (DFS) > so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the > board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when > looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it > for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart > had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test > Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same > price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS > does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products since the above examples are both API products. > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf > prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if > I can't get bargains. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33219	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Feeding Peas

I just fed some green peas to my fish for the first time. They really ate them well. I don't suspect any constipation problems, but just thought I would give it a try. Is there any benefit over commercially prepared fish food occasionally? How often would you recommend feeding peas? Should they be used only for there therapeutic effect? I just put a few frozen peas in a cup of hot water and let them set for a few minutes and mashed the centers out of the peeling and droped them in. Sent from my iPod Jimmy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33220	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:

All species of Betta come from shallow, slow moving bodies of water, as one would find in swamps. This is quite different from what you are describing, which sounds more like a habitat for annual killifish. While the water level may be reduced during dry periods of the year, it does not dry up entirely. The nature of their environment is one of low oxygen and warm water (which do go hand in hand). The labyrinth organ is meant to supplement the oxygen available to the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brad Belikove Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help betta on his way out: Well i used the term puddles to describe it the best i could. As I understand it, the bodies of water the bettas typically live in are less than a foot across and very shallow. When water levels start to drop the puddle (for lack of a better term) because very muddy and hard to breath in. Any normal fish would die, but the ability to breath air keeps them alive. If another betta happens to find his way into an already occupied puddle (by flopping from puddle to puddle or whatever) that is barely big enough for 1, the 2 become very territorial for fear of their lives and the only available body of water. Hence why they fight to the death and why they're able to be comfortable in such small shallow bowls. i dont believe they're more comfortable in a 1/2 gallon bowl then they would be in a 10 gallon tank, but i do believe due to the nature of their being and their evolutionary background it is acceptable. I could totally be wrong as I've never actively researched them, so please chime in if so. Anyway, my choice of the word puddle is pretty accurate when describing the situation above. On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 9:44 AM, <AwlArtist@...> wrote: > > I don't know that I would call them 'puddles'... slow moving shallow river/ > > backwater edges and rice paddies is what I have read that they live in, in > the > wild. > > > In a message dated 11/18/2008 4:26:59 AM Central Standard Time, > bbelikove@... <bbelikove%40gmail.com> writes: > > so does this mean that bettas breath both from the air and through the > water? i know that bettas developed the ability to breath air due to living > in small "mud" puddles which also explains their severe territorial > behaviors as well as their ability to live in very small confines. I > didn't know they also have the ability to breath as any other fish would: > ie: through the gills...thanks for the info by the way. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33221	From: Mark Hough	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

Does your corp offices dictate fish care? That is one of the reasons have a distaste for big box. I was at our local big box and noticed that they had a SW fish with ich and I suggested that they turn off that tank from the rest of the system. I was told that "Corp" won't let them - let alone treat the fish. Like you said, I'm sure this is on a store by store basis, but for the most part the people I've ran into do not know fish nor how to treat them. He was spreading that ich throughout his system and didn't care. I have a problem with that. Also, can you order fish for your customers? I was in search of a special fish and could not get the big box stores order for me... They get what is ever on their inventory list - basically nothing other than the common fish. On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 3:30 PM, <allie1068@...> wrote: > The thing I still do not understand anout the pricing 5 years later is > that the prices vary from each district not all stores may have thhe same > price. Districts aren't always made up by state either there may be a > district made up by a couple states. It all depends on the cost of living > and things like that. I haven't seen any increases on prices for my aquatics > in some time now. As far as the knowledge base it all varies depending on > the store and boils down to the management. We take our fish very seriously > and are fortunate enough to have a staff that does as well. We are all fish > keepers and try to learn all the time. We aren't all knowing by any means > but myself and my fellow managers understand and keep the fishies best > interest first. As a matter of fact I personally just got a customer that > called corp and complained about me because I refused to sell him the fish > he wanted after him insisting that putting mollies platies and > 2 rainbow sharks would work well with his 8 inch red devil and 9 inch tiger > Oscar. Like anything else it all depends where its at and how its run. In an > ideal world it would be perfect. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:12:36 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > A business like PetsMart has enough buying power so they can purchase a > much lower prices than your LFS and even sell the products for less than > your LFS can get them while still making a profit. When they first came > into the area I was living in at the time, They were selling goods at > prices so low that the mom & pops went to them to purchase some stock > since the prices were lower than the mom and pops were paying their > distributors. They drove enough of them out of business, and then > started raising their pricing on the goods they had on the shelves. > (This was pre web stores--actually, pretty much pre-web.) > > I knew a couple of guys who thought they could beat them at their own > game, but, unfortunately, they did not have the financial wherewithal to > do so. They ended up in bankruptcy. Even though they had higher quality > and better service than the big boxes (PetsMart and Petco), they still > lost because the American consumer makes decisions based on price pretty > much alone, often to our detriment. We'd probably have much cooler fish > available to us, if we were willing to pay the price, much as the > Japanese and Germans do. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > Well.. if it's true that PetsMart.com has raised their prices, my LFS > will > be getting more of my impulsive business but I'm a capitalist pig at > heart > so the LFS needs to be more competitive on their dry good prices to get > me > shopping there compared to lower priced options. I do get my fish from > them > but I haven't bought any new fish in a while... since Katrina, except > for > the little Clown Pleco I got a few months ago. > > He's finally starting to catch up on the algae growth I had let build-up > from the time I traded in my BIG common pleco until I decided on which > dwarf > pleco I was going to get. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Mark Hough > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > I can't let you know... I shop my LFS vs the big box outlets. Yeah, you > may > pay a little more but without them people's pets will suffer. I can't > tell > you how many times I've corrected advice/mistakes due to the big box > employees' suggestions - or should I say - lack of knowledge... > > Simply said, shop your local fish store it at all possible. > > Peace! > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > Allie1068 and others... > > > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > > <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com > <http://www.PetsMart.com> > > > > http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> and print the > > online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the > online > prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online > prices... > BUT... > > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as > > the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online > price. > > > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > > not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like > > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> > > > > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> (DFS) > > so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the > > board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when > > looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it > > for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart > > had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test > > Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same > > price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS > > does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products > since > the above examples are both API products. > > > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf > > prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if > > I can't get bargains. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33222	From: Linda Badeen	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

Lisa, I guess you didn't see the <g> (grin). I could tell that your tank was standing on its side and the photo was flipped, but it really looks like a flying tank that way :) The "normal" tank here has black plastic trim around the top and bottom of the tank, with the corners bare. Down in Oz, it looks like they do the plastic trim on the corners and the top and bottom edges bare. Is that what I'm seeing? Linda Lisa Lawless wrote: > No, Linda, that's part of the tank. I flipped the photo so you could all see how long it is. > > A lot of tanks here have black trims > > Lisa > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33223	From: bill1433	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Petsmart?

With all the talk here about Petsmart I figure now would be a good time to ask.  Before I go and order that fish food we just talked about yesterday.  Has anyone in the group dealt with them as an online or mail order customer?   Someone just remarked that they are very slow.  Are they?   Bill   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33224	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Anyone in Northern VA area with wingless fruit flies?

Hi Friends, My cultures died, due to negligence on my part. Does anyone live in near Northern Virginia area that has a culture I can get. Occasionally, I see them at PetCo. Not for while tho. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33225	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

I would like to chime about petsmart and petco pricing. Sometimes it's laughable how expensive petsmart is (i lump petco and petsmart into the same, because they're outrageously expensive herout called pet* co and smart. :)) A bag of dry dog food that runs for $10 at walmart will be $42 at pet* maybe for $30 if you're lucky. I do buy feeder fish and crickets from there cuz it's so close to my houe and the pricing isn't too bad when only buying 40 crickets or 10 or so feeders... On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > Lenny, > > Any drop in sales, they'll likely attribute it to the economic > conditions and not the change in their pricing strategy. If I were a > stockholder, and the former strategy was having no ill effects on the > bottom line, I'd dump my holdings now. > > Regular T-shirts? Don't you mean Lil' Bow-Wow T-shirts? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > WOW... that's not a good sign for PetsMart. I guess I could understand > if > they would have taken away the online price-match for the stores but now > I > have little reason to look at their website and even less of a reason to > go > into the local store since I mostly only went in there with a plan to > buy > products that I was interested in from their website prices. Usually, I > might do an impulsive buy while at the local store so they'll lose that > from > me and others as well. I even bought a clearance priced Halloween > T-shirt > for my dog... only $2.00 and he doesn't know it's a Halloween theme. > And > no, I don't usually put my dog in clothes but I'm hoping the t-shirt > will > keep some of his hair off my furniture.... another advanced bachelor > cleaning method. If it works, then I'll buy him normal t-shirts. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > Lenny, About 6 weeks ago PetSmart online prices were increased to be > close > to the same as the in store prices. Up until that time PetSmart online > seemed to be very competitive with other online sites, but not anymore. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > ________________________________ > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25:50 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > Allie1068 and others... > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > <http://www.PetsMart .com> http://www.PetsMart .com and print the online > prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online > prices > were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... > BUT... > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as > the > online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are not > as > much of a bargain compared to other online sites like > <http://www.DrsFoste > rSmith.com> http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if > PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make them > the > same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at online prices > for > a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had > it > for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had the same shelf price. I also > noticed > this on the API Master Test Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 > and > the store had the same price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the > $17.00 > range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API > products since the above examples are both API products. > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf > prices > compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if I can't > get > bargains. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. > com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > _ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33226	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

Petsmart doesn't carry sw. But if they are not taking care of their animals absolutely! Call and complain. Belive it or not the dms really pay attention and your voice gets herd. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Mark Hough" <mhough6229@...> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:13:48 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer Does your corp offices dictate fish care? That is one of the reasons have a distaste for big box. I was at our local big box and noticed that they had a SW fish with ich and I suggested that they turn off that tank from the rest of the system. I was told that "Corp" won't let them - let alone treat the fish. Like you said, I'm sure this is on a store by store basis, but for the most part the people I've ran into do not know fish nor how to treat them. He was spreading that ich throughout his system and didn't care. I have a problem with that. Also, can you order fish for your customers? I was in search of a special fish and could not get the big box stores order for me... They get what is ever on their inventory list - basically nothing other than the common fish. On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 3:30 PM, <allie1068@...> wrote: > The thing I still do not understand anout the pricing 5 years later is > that the prices vary from each district not all stores may have thhe same > price. Districts aren't always made up by state either there may be a > district made up by a couple states. It all depends on the cost of living > and things like that. I haven't seen any increases on prices for my aquatics > in some time now. As far as the knowledge base it all varies depending on > the store and boils down to the management. We take our fish very seriously > and are fortunate enough to have a staff that does as well. We are all fish > keepers and try to learn all the time. We aren't all knowing by any means > but myself and my fellow managers understand and keep the fishies best > interest first. As a matter of fact I personally just got a customer that > called corp and complained about me because I refused to sell him the fish > he wanted after him insisting that putting mollies platies and > 2 rainbow sharks would work well with his 8 inch red devil and 9 inch tiger > Oscar. Like anything else it all depends where its at and how its run. In an > ideal world it would be perfect. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:12:36 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > A business like PetsMart has enough buying power so they can purchase a > much lower prices than your LFS and even sell the products for less than > your LFS can get them while still making a profit. When they first came > into the area I was living in at the time, They were selling goods at > prices so low that the mom & pops went to them to purchase some stock > since the prices were lower than the mom and pops were paying their > distributors. They drove enough of them out of business, and then > started raising their pricing on the goods they had on the shelves. > (This was pre web stores--actually, pretty much pre-web.) > > I knew a couple of guys who thought they could beat them at their own > game, but, unfortunately, they did not have the financial wherewithal to > do so. They ended up in bankruptcy. Even though they had higher quality > and better service than the big boxes (PetsMart and Petco), they still > lost because the American consumer makes decisions based on price pretty > much alone, often to our detriment. We'd probably have much cooler fish > available to us, if we were willing to pay the price, much as the > Japanese and Germans do. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > Well.. if it's true that PetsMart.com has raised their prices, my LFS > will > be getting more of my impulsive business but I'm a capitalist pig at > heart > so the LFS needs to be more competitive on their dry good prices to get > me > shopping there compared to lower priced options. I do get my fish from > them > but I haven't bought any new fish in a while... since Katrina, except > for > the little Clown Pleco I got a few months ago. > > He's finally starting to catch up on the algae growth I had let build-up > from the time I traded in my BIG common pleco until I decided on which > dwarf > pleco I was going to get. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Mark Hough > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > I can't let you know... I shop my LFS vs the big box outlets. Yeah, you > may > pay a little more but without them people's pets will suffer. I can't > tell > you how many times I've corrected advice/mistakes due to the big box > employees' suggestions - or should I say - lack of knowledge... > > Simply said, shop your local fish store it at all possible. > > Peace! > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > Allie1068 and others... > > > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > > <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com > <http://www.PetsMart.com> > > > > http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> and print the > > online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the > online > prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online > prices... > BUT... > > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as > > the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online > price. > > > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > > not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like > > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> > > > > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> (DFS) > > so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the > > board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when > > looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it > > for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart > > had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test > > Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same > > price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS > > does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products > since > the above examples are both API products. > > > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf > > prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if > > I can't get bargains. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33227	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?

I'm not sure about the ordering online. I'm there everyday so I don't need to. Haha. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:45:01 To: AquaticLife<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Petsmart? With all the talk here about Petsmart I figure now would be a good time to ask.� Before I go and order that fish food we just talked about yesterday.� Has anyone in the group dealt with them as an online or mail order customer? � Someone just remarked that they are very slow.� Are they? � Bill � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33228	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone in Northern VA area with wingless fruit flies?

Petsmart carries them. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim" <jmdarlack@...> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:55:44 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Anyone in Northern VA area with wingless fruit flies? Hi Friends, My cultures died, due to negligence on my part. Does anyone live in near Northern Virginia area that has a culture I can get. Occasionally, I see them at PetCo. Not for while tho. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33229	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?

I have ordered from PetSmart and was was pleased. Aquarium, food, supplies and many other things. Never had a problem. It took about a week and I found that acceptable. Philip --- On Tue, 11/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Petsmart? To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 4:45 PM With all the talk here about Petsmart I figure now would be a good time to ask.  Before I go and order that fish food we just talked about yesterday.  Has anyone in the group dealt with them as an online or mail order customer?   Someone just remarked that they are very slow.  Are they?   Bill   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33230	From: Mark Hough	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local P

He's going to make the shirt out of masking tape... ;-) On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Amber Berglund <amber@...>wrote: > Hey Lenny try feeding your dog more omega 3's, that can help with the > shedding a little bit at least. My jack russell is a very big shedder > and there's white hairs all over, but I have noticed since upping his > Omega 3 treats that he doesn't shed quite so bad any more. Also the > shirt probably won't make him shed any less, but depending on the > material it may not "collect" the hair either ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > WOW... that's not a good sign for PetsMart. I guess I could understand if > > they would have taken away the online price-match for the stores but now > I > > have little reason to look at their website and even less of a reason > > to go > > into the local store since I mostly only went in there with a plan to buy > > products that I was interested in from their website prices. Usually, I > > might do an impulsive buy while at the local store so they'll lose > > that from > > me and others as well. I even bought a clearance priced Halloween T-shirt > > for my dog... only $2.00 and he doesn't know it's a Halloween theme. And > > no, I don't usually put my dog in clothes but I'm hoping the t-shirt will > > keep some of his hair off my furniture.... another advanced bachelor > > cleaning method. If it works, then I'll buy him normal t-shirts. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>] > On > > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart > > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > > > Lenny, About 6 weeks ago PetSmart online prices were increased to be > close > > to the same as the in store prices. Up until that time PetSmart online > > seemed to be very competitive with other online sites, but not anymore. > > Jimmy McHaney > > Husser, LA > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...<GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25:50 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart > > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > > > Allie1068 and others... > > > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > > <http://www.PetsMart .com> http://www.PetsMart .com and print the online > > prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the online prices > > were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... > BUT... > > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as > the > > online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. > > > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > > not as > > much of a bargain compared to other online sites like < > http://www.DrsFoste > > rSmith.com> http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if > > PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make them the > > same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at online > > prices for > > a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for $6.99 and PetsMart.com > > had it > > for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had the same shelf price. I also > noticed > > this on the API Master Test Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of > > $29.99 and > > the store had the same price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the > $17.00 > > range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API > > products since the above examples are both API products. > > > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf prices > > compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if I > > can't get > > bargains. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot. > > com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > _ > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 > > Tested on: 11/18/2008 12:26:00 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33231	From: bill1433	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?

Thanks Phil,   I appreciate your input.   Bill --- On Tue, 11/18/08, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: From: Philip Charles <alone29784@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Petsmart? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 5:14 PM I have ordered from PetSmart and was was pleased. Aquarium, food, supplies and many other things. Never had a problem. It took about a week and I found that acceptable. Philip --- On Tue, 11/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Petsmart? To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 4:45 PM With all the talk here about Petsmart I figure now would be a good time to ask.  Before I go and order that fish food we just talked about yesterday.  Has anyone in the group dealt with them as an online or mail order customer?   Someone just remarked that they are very slow.  Are they?   Bill   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33232	From: Lisa	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Getting there. Slowly.

Still no water yet, I'm going to fill it on, and start the cycle on Tuesday, and I still want to add 1 more silk plant on the right hand side. Can I have a RTBS? And I added more photos. 1, of the tank washed, U/G filter in, and in the unit 2, Heater installed 3, (Floor plan lay out) With washed substrate, ornaments and silk and plastic plants 4, And a close up of the left side Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33233	From: Lisa	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: It's here!

Thats correct Linda. And yeah i got the -grin- -smiles- Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Linda Badeen <linda.rose@...> wrote: > > Lisa, > I guess you didn't see the <g> (grin). I could tell that your tank was > standing on its side and the photo was flipped, but it really looks like > a flying tank that way :) > > The "normal" tank here has black plastic trim around the top and bottom > of the tank, with the corners bare. Down in Oz, it looks like they do > the plastic trim on the corners and the top and bottom edges bare. Is > that what I'm seeing? > > Linda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33234	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units?

I have a Whisper Bio-bag, which I bought by mistake from Petco months ago, thinking it was a generic cartridge. Our three aquariums have Cascade filters. So, can I use the Whisper Bio-bags in my Cascade filter units?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33235	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local P

Duct Tape... or better yet, Gorilla Tape. That'll teach him for shedding on my furniture! LOL -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 4:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer He's going to make the shirt out of masking tape... ;-) On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Amber Berglund <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> >wrote: > Hey Lenny try feeding your dog more omega 3's, that can help with the > shedding a little bit at least. My jack russell is a very big shedder > and there's white hairs all over, but I have noticed since upping his > Omega 3 treats that he doesn't shed quite so bad any more. Also the > shirt probably won't make him shed any less, but depending on the > material it may not "collect" the hair either ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > WOW... that's not a good sign for PetsMart. I guess I could > > understand if they would have taken away the online price-match for > > the stores but now > I > > have little reason to look at their website and even less of a > > reason to go into the local store since I mostly only went in there > > with a plan to buy products that I was interested in from their > > website prices. Usually, I might do an impulsive buy while at the > > local store so they'll lose that from me and others as well. I even > > bought a clearance priced Halloween T-shirt for my dog... only $2.00 > > and he doesn't know it's a Halloween theme. And no, I don't usually > > put my dog in clothes but I'm hoping the t-shirt will keep some of > > his hair off my furniture.... another advanced bachelor cleaning > > method. If it works, then I'll buy him normal t-shirts. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>] > On > > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart > > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > > > Lenny, About 6 weeks ago PetSmart online prices were increased to be > close > > to the same as the in store prices. Up until that time PetSmart > > online seemed to be very competitive with other online sites, but not anymore. > > Jimmy McHaney > > Husser, LA > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com> >> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com> >> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25:50 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > > PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > > > Allie1068 and others... > > > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > > <http://www.PetsMart .com> http://www.PetsMart .com and print the > > online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the > > online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online prices... > BUT... > > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price > > as > the > > online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. > > > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > > not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like < > http://www.DrsFoste > > rSmith.com> http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if > > PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make > > them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at > > online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for > > $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had > > the same shelf price. I also > noticed > > this on the API Master Test Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of > > $29.99 and > > the store had the same price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the > $17.00 > > range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on > > API products since the above examples are both API products. > > > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf > > prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart > > if I can't get bargains. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.> com (Links > > to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > _ > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 > > 12:26:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 <http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229> Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 5:04:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 5:06:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

In talking to my local PetsMart, it seems that there may be a store-by-store policy about price-matching and low price guarantee... whether it be from another retail store or website... BUT... the "official" policy seems to be in the "SNIP" below and only covers other "local retail competitors", not other websites... Here's an email that someone posted in another forum, which they purport to have gotten from PetsMart. I sent a similar question to PetsMart and I'll let you all know what kind of reply I get. This one sure sounds official but was posted back in 2007 so maybe things have changed. (START SNIP) Thank you for your recent email. PetSmart's vision is to provide Total Lifetime Care to Every Pet, Every Pet Parent, Every Time. We believe our everyday prices are lower than our competitors' everyday prices and in most cases, as low as or lower than their sale prices...but instead of making our Customers wait for a sale, we guarantee that our prices are the lowest EVERY DAY. To back up our claim of Everyday Low Prices, we offer to price match items of local retail competitors. This guarantee states that if a Customer finds a lower price from a legitimate retailer on any identical item that they have purchased from PetSmart, we will price match the competitor's retail price at the PetSmart retail store. This guarantee gives our claim of Everyday Low Prices its credibility and is a vital part of our total company image. We only price match our own website here at PetSmart. Next time you are in the PetSmart store, please speak with the Store Manager, who will gladly assist you with any questions. You are important to PetSmart and we value any input you may have now and in the future. (END SNIP) And another... (START SNIP) i'm a manager at petsmart so i'll clear up what the policy is... petsmart will not match prices on any live pets or fish or on services... and we will match Petsmart.com but will not match any other web sites... as far as price matching stores, you should have some kind of proof that the price is what you are claiming... coupon, advertisement, receipt... and finally, the product has to be something that we carry in our stores... for instance, we can not match the price of a fish tank that is not top fin brand... thats the policy as far as i understand it, and i'm sure some managers may wave the policy on occasion, so good luck! and always check petsmart.com before you buy stuff because the prices online can be WAY cheaper than in the stores... and make sure we carry the same product in the store as online because we carry more stuff than online. and don't be afraid to try. we as managers would rather match a price than loose a customer and sale... especially on coupons as they don't affect our sales. once again, just my 2 cents.. - chris (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brad Belikove Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer I would like to chime about petsmart and petco pricing. Sometimes it's laughable how expensive petsmart is (i lump petco and petsmart into the same, because they're outrageously expensive herout called pet* co and smart. :)) A bag of dry dog food that runs for $10 at walmart will be $42 at pet* maybe for $30 if you're lucky. I do buy feeder fish and crickets from there cuz it's so close to my houe and the pricing isn't too bad when only buying 40 crickets or 10 or so feeders... On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: > Lenny, > > Any drop in sales, they'll likely attribute it to the economic > conditions and not the change in their pricing strategy. If I were a > stockholder, and the former strategy was having no ill effects on the > bottom line, I'd dump my holdings now. > > Regular T-shirts? Don't you mean Lil' Bow-Wow T-shirts? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > WOW... that's not a good sign for PetsMart. I guess I could understand > if they would have taken away the online price-match for the stores > but now I have little reason to look at their website and even less of > a reason to go into the local store since I mostly only went in there > with a plan to buy products that I was interested in from their > website prices. Usually, I might do an impulsive buy while at the > local store so they'll lose that from me and others as well. I even > bought a clearance priced Halloween T-shirt for my dog... only $2.00 > and he doesn't know it's a Halloween theme. > And > no, I don't usually put my dog in clothes but I'm hoping the t-shirt > will keep some of his hair off my furniture.... another advanced > bachelor cleaning method. If it works, then I'll buy him normal > t-shirts. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > Lenny, About 6 weeks ago PetSmart online prices were increased to be > close to the same as the in store prices. Up until that time PetSmart > online seemed to be very competitive with other online sites, but not > anymore. > Jimmy McHaney > Husser, LA > > ________________________________ > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com> >> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25:50 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > Allie1068 and others... > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > <http://www.PetsMart .com> http://www.PetsMart .com and print the > online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the > online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their > online prices... > BUT... > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as > the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online > price. > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like > <http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com> http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com (DFS) > so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the > board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when > looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it > for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart > had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test > Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same > price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS > does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products > since the above examples are both API products. > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf > prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if > I can't get bargains. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. > com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > _ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 4:44:23 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 4:59:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33237	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?

I've ordered from them online in the past. I may also have some late breaking news that I'm trying to confirm from PetsMart right now. It may well be that your local PetsMart will match anyone's prices for non-living items... regular or sale prices.. clearance prices.. going-out-of-business prices.. whether from a retail store or a website. You will still need an ad or webpage printout but if so, that's really GOOD news. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:45 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Petsmart? With all the talk here about Petsmart I figure now would be a good time to ask. Before I go and order that fish food we just talked about yesterday. Has anyone in the group dealt with them as an online or mail order customer? Someone just remarked that they are very slow. Are they? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 4:44:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33238	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local P

Yeah and it'll also teach you when you have to go and remove the shirt and put on a new one ;) You'd have a bald dog, or at least half bald in the shape of a shirt, I can imagine the laughs you'd get while walking your dog, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Duct Tape... or better yet, Gorilla Tape. That'll teach him for > shedding on > my furniture! LOL > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Mark Hough > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing > compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > He's going to make the shirt out of masking tape... ;-) > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> >wrote: > > > Hey Lenny try feeding your dog more omega 3's, that can help with the > > shedding a little bit at least. My jack russell is a very big shedder > > and there's white hairs all over, but I have noticed since upping his > > Omega 3 treats that he doesn't shed quite so bad any more. Also the > > shirt probably won't make him shed any less, but depending on the > > material it may not "collect" the hair either ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > WOW... that's not a good sign for PetsMart. I guess I could > > > understand if they would have taken away the online price-match for > > > the stores but now > > I > > > have little reason to look at their website and even less of a > > > reason to go into the local store since I mostly only went in there > > > with a plan to buy products that I was interested in from their > > > website prices. Usually, I might do an impulsive buy while at the > > > local store so they'll lose that from me and others as well. I even > > > bought a clearance priced Halloween T-shirt for my dog... only $2.00 > > > and he doesn't know it's a Halloween theme. And no, I don't usually > > > put my dog in clothes but I'm hoping the t-shirt will keep some of > > > his hair off my furniture.... another advanced bachelor cleaning > > > method. If it works, then I'll buy him normal t-shirts. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>] > > On > > > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > > PetsMart > > > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > > > > > Lenny, About 6 weeks ago PetSmart online prices were increased to be > > close > > > to the same as the in store prices. Up until that time PetSmart > > > online seemed to be very competitive with other online sites, but not > anymore. > > > Jimmy McHaney > > > Husser, LA > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com > <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com> >> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com > <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com> >> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25:50 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > > > PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > > > > > Allie1068 and others... > > > > > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > > > <http://www.PetsMart .com> http://www.PetsMart .com and print the > > > online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the > > > online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their > online > prices... > > BUT... > > > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price > > > as > > the > > > online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price. > > > > > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > > > not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like < > > http://www.DrsFoste > > > rSmith.com> http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if > > > PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make > > > them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at > > > online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for > > > $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had > > > the same shelf price. I also > > noticed > > > this on the API Master Test Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of > > > $29.99 and > > > the store had the same price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the > > $17.00 > > > range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on > > > API products since the above examples are both API products. > > > > > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf > > > prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart > > > if I can't get bargains. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.>> com (Links > > > to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > _ > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > >> : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 > > > 12:26:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 <http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229> > <http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 <http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229>> > > Mark Hough > > I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if > there really is a doG. > I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 > Tested on: 11/18/2008 5:04:11 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 > Tested on: 11/18/2008 5:06:13 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33239	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Cycling tank (again? ugh)

Okay I have not changed my filter media yet (it's only been 2 1/2 months on new media). I have also not added any new fish in nearly a month as well, and when I did it was only 2 loaches (who have also died in the last month, I think something was picking on them). Would adding live plants to a tank cause it to cycle again? I added a few plants each week this last month, and that was the only other live stuff I've put into my tank. Last week I got some Flourish Excel to put in my tank for my plants and my ammonia skyrocketted and I had to do several PWC's yesterday to get my ammonia back down close to 0 where it should have been. I have not put more of the flourish excel in my tank, as I wasn't sure if it would affect the ammonia or not, but didn't want to chance it without asking to see what you guys thought about the situation. My tank was cycled before I added plants this last month, and I figured 2-3 plants a week wouldn't affect it too much. I also haven't added any new plants in nearly 2 weeks as well (or fish as I said). Thankfully I didn't lose any fish when the ammonia went up yesterday, as I caught it right away and did several PWC's over a few hours. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33240	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:

I did quite a bit of research when I bred Betta's a few years ago. Here are some sites to look at, or you can google for yourself :) website- _http://www.atisonbetta.com/who.asp_ (http://www.atisonbetta.com/who.asp) In 1952 I was 10 years old and started seaching for betta. I went almost everywhere to find good fighters, in rice fields, in canals or even in swams in Bangkok. Thailand those days had a population of only 18 millions and there were rice fields and canals everywhere, especially in Bangkok.The place where I went very often was Sathorn Canal and Wireless Canal. website (very nice site!) _http://www.siamsbestbettas.com/intro.html_ (http://www.siamsbestbettas.com/intro.html) Betta (pronounced BET-TUH, not BAY-TUH) Splendens, also known as 'Siamese Fighting Fish', derive from Asia. The bettas in the wild look very different than the ones we know and have been captivated by. In the wild, speed and agility are more important than color and beauty. With this in mind, you can envision the wild betta with short fins and dark, mottled coloring. The wild bettas are very interesting and beautiful in their own way. Bettas also are known to inhabit the shallow rice patties in Asia. These rice patties are very shallow, muddy waters, not our ideal habitat for a fish. This is where their hardiness resulted from. website- http://www.buzzle.com/articles/breeding-betta-fish-challenge.html The betta's native habitat is the vast, shallow freshwater paddies of Southeast Asia. The fish must have access to the surface of the water, since it takes oxygen directly from the atmosphere as well as through their gills. Since they can get oxygen from the surface, they can survive in smaller spaces and poorer condition than other aquarium fish. website- _http://everything2.com/title/betta_ (http://everything2.com/title/betta) The native water of the betta is slow moving _river_ (http://everything2.com/title/river) s and _rice paddies_ (http://everything2.com/title/rice%20paddies) in southeast Asia. The large _fin_ (http://everything2.com/title/fin) s and _labyrinth organ_ (http://everything2.com/title/labyrinth%20organ) are nearly useless in faster moving water, which can drag the fish around due to fin size, as well as being better areated, making the _labyrinth_ (http://everything2.com/title/labyrinth) useless. In a message dated 11/18/2008 1:27:57 PM Central Standard Time, bbelikove@... writes: I could totally be wrong as I've never actively researched them, so please chime in if so. Anyway, my choice of the word puddle is pretty accurate when describing the situation above. **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33241	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe n

Okay guys quit complaining ;) LOL. I live in Alaska and my LFS has outrageous prices, but I shop there to keep them in business mostly, as I'd hate to lose the only LFS/LPS that we have. For example, a small bottle of flourish excel sells for less than 6 dollars on drsfostersmith.com and at my LFS it was nearly 13 dollars for the same bottle, they double everything, including the price of their fish. :( I don't have a petsmart, or a petco (unless I want to shop online and ship things in), and my walmart doesn't carry fish, or really have much of a pet department at all except cat/dog items. So be thankful you get a better deal than I do ;) Not only do I pay over $4 a gallon in gas a gallon, but I also pay more at every local store for that matter. Amber allie1068@... wrote: > > The thing I still do not understand anout the pricing 5 years later is > that the prices vary from each district not all stores may have thhe > same price. Districts aren't always made up by state either there may > be a district made up by a couple states. It all depends on the cost > of living and things like that. I haven't seen any increases on prices > for my aquatics in some time now. As far as the knowledge base it all > varies depending on the store and boils down to the management. We > take our fish very seriously and are fortunate enough to have a staff > that does as well. We are all fish keepers and try to learn all the > time. We aren't all knowing by any means but myself and my fellow > managers understand and keep the fishies best interest first. As a > matter of fact I personally just got a customer that called corp and > complained about me because I refused to sell him the fish he wanted > after him insisting that putting mollies platies and > 2 rainbow sharks would work well with his 8 inch red devil and 9 inch > tiger Oscar. Like anything else it all depends where its at and how > its run. In an ideal world it would be perfect. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:12:36 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > A business like PetsMart has enough buying power so they can purchase a > much lower prices than your LFS and even sell the products for less than > your LFS can get them while still making a profit. When they first came > into the area I was living in at the time, They were selling goods at > prices so low that the mom & pops went to them to purchase some stock > since the prices were lower than the mom and pops were paying their > distributors. They drove enough of them out of business, and then > started raising their pricing on the goods they had on the shelves. > (This was pre web stores--actually, pretty much pre-web.) > > I knew a couple of guys who thought they could beat them at their own > game, but, unfortunately, they did not have the financial wherewithal to > do so. They ended up in bankruptcy. Even though they had higher quality > and better service than the big boxes (PetsMart and Petco), they still > lost because the American consumer makes decisions based on price pretty > much alone, often to our detriment. We'd probably have much cooler fish > available to us, if we were willing to pay the price, much as the > Japanese and Germans do. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > Well.. if it's true that PetsMart.com has raised their prices, my LFS > will > be getting more of my impulsive business but I'm a capitalist pig at > heart > so the LFS needs to be more competitive on their dry good prices to get > me > shopping there compared to lower priced options. I do get my fish from > them > but I haven't bought any new fish in a while... since Katrina, except > for > the little Clown Pleco I got a few months ago. > > He's finally starting to catch up on the algae growth I had let build-up > from the time I traded in my BIG common pleco until I decided on which > dwarf > pleco I was going to get. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Mark Hough > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local > PetsMart > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer > > I can't let you know... I shop my LFS vs the big box outlets. Yeah, you > may > pay a little more but without them people's pets will suffer. I can't > tell > you how many times I've corrected advice/mistakes due to the big box > employees' suggestions - or should I say - lack of knowledge... > > Simply said, shop your local fish store it at all possible. > > Peace! > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Allie1068 and others... > > > > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to > > <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> > <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> > <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com>> > > > > http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com> > <http://www.PetsMart.com <http://www.PetsMart.com>> and print the > > online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the > online > prices were cheaper and the local store would match their online > prices... > BUT... > > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price as > > the online price or the shelf price was even less than the online > price. > > > > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are > > not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like > > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com>> > > > > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com>> (DFS) > > so I'm wondering if PetsMart has raised their online prices across the > > board to make them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when > > looking at online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it > > for $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart > > had the same shelf price. I also noticed this on the API Master Test > > Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of $29.99 and the store had the same > > price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the $17.00 range like DFS > > does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on API products > since > the above examples are both API products. > > > > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf > > prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart if > > I can't get bargains. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33242	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?

I've used petsmart myself, and sending everything to Alaska is slow... But Petsmart didn't take too long, about a week or so. I was surprised that they send my package fed ex 2nd day as well, you usually have to pull teeth trying to get companies to ship fed ex overnight/2nd day up here. Everyone wants to use UPS or fed ex ground service, which I don't mind, but I work for Fed Ex express and it's easier to get my packages at work and take them home rather than hunt down the UPS driver or Ground driver to sign for them ;) Anyways, I digress ;) Overall my service was pretty good and they didn't charge me an arm and a leg on shipping fed ex 2nd day, so they must get a good discount on their shipping (which means they ship a lot of stuff). Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Thanks Phil, > > I appreciate your input. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/18/08, Philip Charles <alone29784@... > <mailto:alone29784%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: Philip Charles <alone29784@... > <mailto:alone29784%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Petsmart? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 5:14 PM > > I have ordered from PetSmart and was was pleased. Aquarium, food, > supplies and many other things. Never had a problem. It took about a > week and I found that acceptable. > Philip > > --- On Tue, 11/18/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: > From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Petsmart? > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 4:45 PM > > With all the talk here about Petsmart I figure now would > > be a good time to ask. Before I go and order that fish food > > we just talked about yesterday. > > Has anyone in the group dealt with them as an > > online or mail order customer? > > > > Someone just remarked that they are very slow. Are they? > > > > Bill > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33243	From: pam andress	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local P

Why don't you just get a non-sheding or hairless dog? I can just see it now. The poor thing is going to be shaved down to no fur. Then you will need coats instead of shirts for him. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:19:06 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer Duct Tape... or better yet, Gorilla Tape. That'll teach him for shedding onmy furniture! LOL-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of Mark HoughSent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 4:17 PMTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT Reply about dog WAS: PetsMart.com pricingcompared to local PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longerHe's going to make the shirt out of masking tape... ;-)On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Amber Berglund <amber@...<mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> >wrote:> Hey Lenny try feeding your dog more omega 3's, that can help with the> shedding a little bit at least. My jack russell is a very big shedder> and there's white hairs all over, but I have noticed since upping his> Omega 3 treats that he doesn't shed quite so bad any more. Also the> shirt probably won't make him shed any less, but depending on the> material it may not "collect" the hair either ;)>> Amber>> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote:> >> > WOW... that's not a good sign for PetsMart. I guess I could> > understand if they would have taken away the online price-match for> > the stores but now> I> > have little reason to look at their website and even less of a> > reason to go into the local store since I mostly only went in there> > with a plan to buy products that I was interested in from their> > website prices. Usually, I might do an impulsive buy while at the> > local store so they'll lose that from me and others as well. I even> > bought a clearance priced Halloween T-shirt for my dog... only $2.00> > and he doesn't know it's a Halloween theme. And no, I don't usually> > put my dog in clothes but I'm hoping the t-shirt will keep some of> > his hair off my furniture.... another advanced bachelor cleaning> > method. If it works, then I'll buy him normal t-shirts. LOL> >> > Lenny Vasbinder> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under> > Archives> > - Year, Month and under Labels)> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>>> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>]> On> > Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney> > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:44 AM> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:> AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local> PetsMart> > stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer> >> > Lenny, About 6 weeks ago PetSmart online prices were increased to be> close> > to the same as the in store prices. Up until that time PetSmart> > online seemed to be very competitive with other online sites, but notanymore.> > Jimmy McHaney> > Husser, LA> >> > ________________________________> > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny%2540gmail.com> >>> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com<GoldLenny%2540gmail.com> >> >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:> AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:25:50 AM> > Subject: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local> > PetsMart stores.. maybe not a bargain any longer> >> > Allie1068 and others...> >> > For many years, I've posted about how I would always go to> > <http://www.PetsMart .com> http://www.PetsMart .com and print the> > online prices of items before going to my local PetsMart since the> > online prices were cheaper and the local store would match their onlineprices...> BUT...> > the last couple of times I tried this, the store had the same price> > as> the> > online price or the shelf price was even less than the online price.> >> > I have also been noticing that the online prices at PetsMart.com are> > not as much of a bargain compared to other online sites like <> http://www.DrsFoste> > rSmith.com> http://www.DrsFoste rSmith.com (DFS) so I'm wondering if> > PetsMart has raised their online prices across the board to make> > them the same as the stores prices? I noticed this when looking at> > online prices for a 16 oz. bottle of Melafix and DFS had it for> > $6.99 and PetsMart.com had it for $12.99 and the local PetsMart had> > the same shelf price. I also> noticed> > this on the API Master Test Kit that had a PetsMart.com price of> > $29.99 and> > the store had the same price. PetsMart.com used to sell this in the> $17.00> > range like DFS does... or maybe PetsMart just raised their prices on> > API products since the above examples are both API products.> >> > Let me know what you may have found with your local PetsMart shelf> > prices compared to the online prices. I will miss my local PetsMart> > if I can't get bargains. LOL> >> > Lenny Vasbinder> > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > http://GoldLenny.blogspot. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.> com (Links> > to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives> > - Year, Month and under Labels)> >> > _> >> > _____> >> > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com> > >> :> > Outbound message clean.> >> > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008> > 12:26:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.> >> >>>--http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 <http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229>Mark HoughI'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering ifthere really is a doG.I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]________________________________avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean.Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008Tested on: 11/18/2008 5:04:11 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software._____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008Tested on: 11/18/2008 5:06:13 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33244	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. ma...

Wow, when my girls were little, I had a red devil cichlid. I could keep NOTHING in the tank with him. I put a plecostomus in there. They were fine when I went to bed. In the morning, Big Guy had bit the pleco in two, and left it lay. He didn't eat it, but he sure didn't want him as a room mate, either, lol. He regularly arranged the gravel to suit himself. I would flatten it out, but in the morning, it would be all humped up to one side again. He loved my girls. I have a few photos of the girls standing by the Christmas tree, he is in the corner of the tank, being cute. He hated one of my girlfriends. The feeling was mutual. She would come for a visit and flip the fish off, he would swim aggressivly, like he was trying to come through the glass to get a piece of her!! That is one fish with a definate personality!!! Love them!!! Can't find them around here or I would definately be setting up a new tank!!! Laura in KY In a message dated 11/18/2008 2:53:59 PM Central Standard Time, allie1068@... writes: well with his 8 inch red devil **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212639737x1200784900/aol?redir=https://www.blockbuster.com/signup/y/reg/p.26978/r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33245	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)

OK. I'm going to bounce a few ideas around here. When you say your ammonia "skyrocketed".. how high did it get? Give us the pH, nitrite, nitrate numbers as well. When you say "2 1/2 months"... do you mean you haven't cleaned it in that long? Changing it should not be an issue since most filter media will last for years and years until it is starting to fall apart before it has to be changed... but it still has to be cleaned, in removed tank water, on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. I just want to make sure you understand that process. Plants should not cause a cycle unless the plants include something dead hidden in them that is decomposing. As far as the live plants... did you clean them and disinfect them when you got home or just put them in your tank? Were the live plants in a big fresh water tank at the store? I've read that many plant shippers will treat their plants to try and kill off snails.. usually using a copper based solution but maybe something else. Also.. did the store maybe treat them with a bleach dip and not rinse enough? Even a drop of bleach in your tank would be enough chlorine to kill off some/all of your good nitrifying bacteria and that would cause an ammonia spike and an entire mini- or full cycle. Are you sure you got any/all of the dead fish out? What brand test kit? Do you have a lot of algae in your tank? Did you overdose the Excel? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) Okay I have not changed my filter media yet (it's only been 2 1/2 months on new media). I have also not added any new fish in nearly a month as well, and when I did it was only 2 loaches (who have also died in the last month, I think something was picking on them). Would adding live plants to a tank cause it to cycle again? I added a few plants each week this last month, and that was the only other live stuff I've put into my tank. Last week I got some Flourish Excel to put in my tank for my plants and my ammonia skyrocketted and I had to do several PWC's yesterday to get my ammonia back down close to 0 where it should have been. I have not put more of the flourish excel in my tank, as I wasn't sure if it would affect the ammonia or not, but didn't want to chance it without asking to see what you guys thought about the situation. My tank was cycled before I added plants this last month, and I figured 2-3 plants a week wouldn't affect it too much. I also haven't added any new plants in nearly 2 weeks as well (or fish as I said). Thankfully I didn't lose any fish when the ammonia went up yesterday, as I caught it right away and did several PWC's over a few hours. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 7:48:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33246	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)

I didn't test any of the other numbers, but I can after I post this message. The filter has been cleaned, but the carbon has not been changed is what I meant. The plants were not treated at the LFS, in fact you could watch the snails moving around the large planted tanks that they keep. They keep loaches in to keep the snail population down to a minimum. I didn't bleach the plants, just rinsed them really well before putting them in my tank. I dosed the flourish exel by the dosing instructions on the bottle, and had only put in the first dose and the next day my ammonia went up high enough for me to see the tank get the white cloudiness and it was reading at .5 after I did a 25% water change, so I waited an hour and took out another 10 gallons (from my 55 gallon tank), took another ammonia reading and I had it down to .25, so I waited an hour and took out another 10 gallons, at that point I had taken out 45 approximate gallons and put in new water, that's a pretty drastic change to have to get my ammonia back down to 0. The last time I checked my nitrates/nitrites they were both at 0 (last week). I will test them now and update with the current numbers. I also took out another 10 gallons this evening just to be safe, in case the ammonia had built back up in 24 hours. I also run a fluidized bed filter for up to 300 gallons, though to be honest I'm not quite sure if it's doing anything or not, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. I'm going to bounce a few ideas around here. > > When you say your ammonia "skyrocketed".. how high did it get? Give us the > pH, nitrite, nitrate numbers as well. > > When you say "2 1/2 months"... do you mean you haven't cleaned it in that > long? Changing it should not be an issue since most filter media will last > for years and years until it is starting to fall apart before it has to be > changed... but it still has to be cleaned, in removed tank water, on a > weekly or bi-weekly basis. I just want to make sure you understand that > process. > > Plants should not cause a cycle unless the plants include something dead > hidden in them that is decomposing. > > As far as the live plants... did you clean them and disinfect them > when you > got home or just put them in your tank? Were the live plants in a big > fresh > water tank at the store? I've read that many plant shippers will treat > their plants to try and kill off snails.. usually using a copper based > solution but maybe something else. Also.. did the store maybe treat them > with a bleach dip and not rinse enough? Even a drop of bleach in your tank > would be enough chlorine to kill off some/all of your good nitrifying > bacteria and that would cause an ammonia spike and an entire mini- or full > cycle. > > Are you sure you got any/all of the dead fish out? > > What brand test kit? > > Do you have a lot of algae in your tank? Did you overdose the Excel? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > Okay I have not changed my filter media yet (it's only been 2 1/2 > months on > new media). I have also not added any new fish in nearly a month as well, > and when I did it was only 2 loaches (who have also died in the last > month, > I think something was picking on them). Would adding live plants to a tank > cause it to cycle again? I added a few plants each week this last > month, and > that was the only other live stuff I've put into my tank. Last week I got > some Flourish Excel to put in my tank for my plants and my ammonia > skyrocketted and I had to do several PWC's yesterday to get my ammonia > back > down close to 0 where it should have been. I have not put more of the > flourish excel in my tank, as I wasn't sure if it would affect the ammonia > or not, but didn't want to chance it without asking to see what you guys > thought about the situation. My tank was cycled before I added plants this > last month, and I figured 2-3 plants a week wouldn't affect it too much. I > also haven't added any new plants in nearly 2 weeks as well (or fish as I > said). Thankfully I didn't lose any fish when the ammonia went up > yesterday, > as I caught it right away and did several PWC's over a few hours. > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 > Tested on: 11/18/2008 7:48:51 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33247	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)

Ammonia ~ .25, PH ~ 6.1, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is 0. using the API freshwater master test kit. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. I'm going to bounce a few ideas around here. > > When you say your ammonia "skyrocketed".. how high did it get? Give us the > pH, nitrite, nitrate numbers as well. > > When you say "2 1/2 months"... do you mean you haven't cleaned it in that > long? Changing it should not be an issue since most filter media will last > for years and years until it is starting to fall apart before it has to be > changed... but it still has to be cleaned, in removed tank water, on a > weekly or bi-weekly basis. I just want to make sure you understand that > process. > > Plants should not cause a cycle unless the plants include something dead > hidden in them that is decomposing. > > As far as the live plants... did you clean them and disinfect them > when you > got home or just put them in your tank? Were the live plants in a big > fresh > water tank at the store? I've read that many plant shippers will treat > their plants to try and kill off snails.. usually using a copper based > solution but maybe something else. Also.. did the store maybe treat them > with a bleach dip and not rinse enough? Even a drop of bleach in your tank > would be enough chlorine to kill off some/all of your good nitrifying > bacteria and that would cause an ammonia spike and an entire mini- or full > cycle. > > Are you sure you got any/all of the dead fish out? > > What brand test kit? > > Do you have a lot of algae in your tank? Did you overdose the Excel? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > Okay I have not changed my filter media yet (it's only been 2 1/2 > months on > new media). I have also not added any new fish in nearly a month as well, > and when I did it was only 2 loaches (who have also died in the last > month, > I think something was picking on them). Would adding live plants to a tank > cause it to cycle again? I added a few plants each week this last > month, and > that was the only other live stuff I've put into my tank. Last week I got > some Flourish Excel to put in my tank for my plants and my ammonia > skyrocketted and I had to do several PWC's yesterday to get my ammonia > back > down close to 0 where it should have been. I have not put more of the > flourish excel in my tank, as I wasn't sure if it would affect the ammonia > or not, but didn't want to chance it without asking to see what you guys > thought about the situation. My tank was cycled before I added plants this > last month, and I figured 2-3 plants a week wouldn't affect it too much. I > also haven't added any new plants in nearly 2 weeks as well (or fish as I > said). Thankfully I didn't lose any fish when the ammonia went up > yesterday, > as I caught it right away and did several PWC's over a few hours. > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 > Tested on: 11/18/2008 7:48:51 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33248	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)

OK. So it looks more like you had only a mini-cycle... not "skyrocketed". ;-) Skyrocketed, to me, would be in the 7.0 to 10.0 range. But let's try to figure out why you had this mini-cycle. Had you just cleaned the filter right before this mini-cycle? Cleaning the filter is good but if you over clean it or improperly clean it, this can lead to a mini-cycle. Try to give me a precise history/timeline for the past several days prior to the white cloudy bacterial bloom which tested to be an ammonia mini-cycle. I'm also looking at your follow-up email (pasted below) with your numbers and I'm concerned about your 0.0ppm nitrAte level. Normally, a tank that is cycling properly, would have some kind of a nitrate level. Is your pH normally that low? Also, with a pH that low, your ammonia reading is nothing to be worried about at all. With a pH in the 6's, you could have 3-4ppm of ammonia and it would not be toxic to your fish. It's not good to have but it's nothing to be alarmed about at low levels either. I've never used Flourish Excel but I understand it's like a liquid carbon product (to replicate CO2) for heavily planted tanks. Is your tank heavily planted? I've never had to use any kinds of plant additives in my tanks with easy to grow plants and my tanks are "flourishing".. pardon the pun. ;-) The fish waste, detritus, nitrates, CO2, etc., from the fish have always been enough food. I'm not saying this is a problem, but I'm not sure you need to be adding this. Scroll down and re-read my first reply and answer the unanswered questions. Don't make me be Dr. House on you! ;-) (I hope you watch that TV show so you'll know what I'm talking about) LOL As far as the fluidized bed, I'm not sure how that will affect your cycling. Do you have a brand/model number on it? I'd like to read up more on your model. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -------------------- FROM: amber@... DATE: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:20:01 -0900 SUBJECT: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) Ammonia ~ .25, PH ~ 6.1, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is 0. using the API freshwater master test kit. Amber -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) I didn't test any of the other numbers, but I can after I post this message. The filter has been cleaned, but the carbon has not been changed is what I meant. The plants were not treated at the LFS, in fact you could watch the snails moving around the large planted tanks that they keep. They keep loaches in to keep the snail population down to a minimum. I didn't bleach the plants, just rinsed them really well before putting them in my tank. I dosed the flourish exel by the dosing instructions on the bottle, and had only put in the first dose and the next day my ammonia went up high enough for me to see the tank get the white cloudiness and it was reading at .5 after I did a 25% water change, so I waited an hour and took out another 10 gallons (from my 55 gallon tank), took another ammonia reading and I had it down to .25, so I waited an hour and took out another 10 gallons, at that point I had taken out 45 approximate gallons and put in new water, that's a pretty drastic change to have to get my ammonia back down to 0. The last time I checked my nitrates/nitrites they were both at 0 (last week). I will test them now and update with the current numbers. I also took out another 10 gallons this evening just to be safe, in case the ammonia had built back up in 24 hours. I also run a fluidized bed filter for up to 300 gallons, though to be honest I'm not quite sure if it's doing anything or not, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. I'm going to bounce a few ideas around here. > > When you say your ammonia "skyrocketed".. how high did it get? Give us > the pH, nitrite, nitrate numbers as well. > > When you say "2 1/2 months"... do you mean you haven't cleaned it in > that long? Changing it should not be an issue since most filter media > will last for years and years until it is starting to fall apart > before it has to be changed... but it still has to be cleaned, in > removed tank water, on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. I just want to > make sure you understand that process. > > Plants should not cause a cycle unless the plants include something > dead hidden in them that is decomposing. > > As far as the live plants... did you clean them and disinfect them > when you got home or just put them in your tank? Were the live plants > in a big fresh water tank at the store? I've read that many plant > shippers will treat their plants to try and kill off snails.. usually > using a copper based solution but maybe something else. Also.. did the > store maybe treat them with a bleach dip and not rinse enough? Even a > drop of bleach in your tank would be enough chlorine to kill off > some/all of your good nitrifying bacteria and that would cause an > ammonia spike and an entire mini- or full cycle. > > Are you sure you got any/all of the dead fish out? > > What brand test kit? > > Do you have a lot of algae in your tank? Did you overdose the Excel? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > Okay I have not changed my filter media yet (it's only been 2 1/2 > months on new media). I have also not added any new fish in nearly a > month as well, and when I did it was only 2 loaches (who have also > died in the last month, I think something was picking on them). Would > adding live plants to a tank cause it to cycle again? I added a few > plants each week this last month, and that was the only other live > stuff I've put into my tank. Last week I got some Flourish Excel to > put in my tank for my plants and my ammonia skyrocketted and I had to > do several PWC's yesterday to get my ammonia back down close to 0 > where it should have been. I have not put more of the flourish excel > in my tank, as I wasn't sure if it would affect the ammonia or not, > but didn't want to chance it without asking to see what you guys > thought about the situation. My tank was cycled before I added plants > this last month, and I figured 2-3 plants a week wouldn't affect it > too much. I also haven't added any new plants in nearly 2 weeks as > well (or fish as I said). Thankfully I didn't lose any fish when the > ammonia went up yesterday, as I caught it right away and did several > PWC's over a few hours. > > Amber > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/18/2008 8:42:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33249	From: mike	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES

I got ick from petco and i only have 3 little guys left. I lost my shrimp within a day. My question is that I researched for days and haven't seen a cure for invertebrates. I don't have anymore invertebrates now, but I don't want to add a chemical that will kill future ones. I am raising the temp and doing hydrosalinity, but if I had invertibrates that would kill them too! If I moved invertibrates to another tank to treat the main, they would only bring it back. Any info on this because I haven't seen a one? Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33250	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: help betta on his way out:

Anabantoids (Bettas, Gourami's etc.) have developed a "Labyrinth" auxilliary breathing apparatus with which they can use to breathe air when their water gets depleted of oxygen. Being an auxilliary apparatus, it is used in a supplementary manner aiding in obtaining oxygen. Their primary oxygen obtainer is still their gills, which are always used even in low oxygenated water with the help of their Labyrinth system. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Brad Belikove" <bbelikove@...> wrote: > > so does this mean that bettas breath both from the air and through the > water? i know that bettas developed the ability to breath air due to living > in small "mud" puddles which also explains their severe territorial > behaviors as well as their ability to live in very small confines. I > didn't know they also have the ability to breath as any other fish would: > ie: through the gills...thanks for the info by the way. > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > Bettas also have gills. The labyrinth organ is just something extra they > > have over non-labyrinth fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Brad Belikove > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] help betta on his way out: > > > > well even though i'm retarded and wasn't thinking about it being a betta, > > i'd still do what i said. just remove the part about fresh water pumping > > through his gills :) good luck btw. > > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Brad Belikove <bbelikove@...<bbelikove%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:bbelikove%40gmail.com <bbelikove%2540gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > sounds awful. keep us posted. i'd do some serious water changes. maybe > > > put him in a small bowl and keep changing the water just to keep fresh > > > fresh fresh water pumping through his gills. maybe he'll pull through > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > > > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto: > > GoldLenny%40gmail.com <GoldLenny%2540gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > >> Wow... I'm not sure if even a brief encounter with cooking oil would > > >> be very good to a fishes gills and/or labyrinth organ (in the case of > > >> your Betta). > > >> His rapid respiratory action seems to indicate this as well. > > >> > > >> Lenny Vasbinder > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > >> listed on the right side under Archives > > >> - Year, Month and under Labels) > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: > > >> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pomlady101 > > >> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:03 PM > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife% 2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > >> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] help betta on his way out: > > >> > > >> I changed my bettas tank yesterday, same as always except my husband > > >> accidentally dropped some cooking oil in his bowl that he was in. Got > > >> him out in one heck of a hurry, cleaned bowl returned him to it. Then > > >> got tank done and put him in. He ate a little last night and now > > >> today he is laying on bottom sideways breathing very fast. When I > > >> went near he bolted like a nutcase around his tank. I realize he is > > >> prob done for and a hundred things could be wrong with him but just > > >> thought I'd share and see if anyone could help. gotten to like the > > >> little guy :( thanks Erin > > >> > > >> _____ > > >> > > >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > >> > > >> Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 Tested on: 11/17/2008 > > >> 2:46:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ________________________________ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 > > Tested on: 11/17/2008 11:37:42 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081117-0, 11/17/2008 > > Tested on: 11/18/2008 1:38:57 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33251	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)

I cleaned the tank very well (syphoned the gravel and moved around ornaments to syphon under them) yesterday when I did all the partial water changes, making sure there weren't any left over dead fish or hiding dead cory's perchance. I didn't find any more dead fish. I only have 10 live plants and a few fake ones, so I wouldn't say it's heavily planted (a couple of the plants are floating as well). The filter is actually due for a good rinsing, it has been about 3 weeks, I should have done that last night but was worried about getting the ammonia levels back down so there wasn't any more cloudiness in the tank. Perhaps the nitrate levels are 0 because of all the water changes I've done in the last 2 days? They were barely reading on the charts last week so I didn't think i would need to do another PWC for at least a few days, and 2 days later I tried adding flourish excel for the first time (this was 3 days ago from today). My PH is always in this range, usually somewhere between 6.1-6.3 at the most. My tap water is very close to the same PH (around 6.3 I think). Should I clean the filter really well tomorrow (in tank water of course)? I didn't feel like draining any more water tonight since I've already taken out 2 buckets ;). I slowly increased my lighting the last couple of weeks but I still don't have any excess algae build up, and I don't have any algae cleaners in the tank since all the oto's died over 3 weeks ago. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. So it looks more like you had only a mini-cycle... not "skyrocketed". > ;-) Skyrocketed, to me, would be in the 7.0 to 10.0 range. But let's try > to figure out why you had this mini-cycle. > > Had you just cleaned the filter right before this mini-cycle? Cleaning the > filter is good but if you over clean it or improperly clean it, this can > lead to a mini-cycle. > > Try to give me a precise history/timeline for the past several days > prior to > the white cloudy bacterial bloom which tested to be an ammonia mini-cycle. > > I'm also looking at your follow-up email (pasted below) with your numbers > and I'm concerned about your 0.0ppm nitrAte level. Normally, a tank > that is > cycling properly, would have some kind of a nitrate level. Is your pH > normally that low? Also, with a pH that low, your ammonia reading is > nothing to be worried about at all. With a pH in the 6's, you could have > 3-4ppm of ammonia and it would not be toxic to your fish. It's not good to > have but it's nothing to be alarmed about at low levels either. > > I've never used Flourish Excel but I understand it's like a liquid carbon > product (to replicate CO2) for heavily planted tanks. Is your tank heavily > planted? I've never had to use any kinds of plant additives in my tanks > with easy to grow plants and my tanks are "flourishing".. pardon the pun. > ;-) The fish waste, detritus, nitrates, CO2, etc., from the fish have > always been enough food. I'm not saying this is a problem, but I'm not > sure > you need to be adding this. > > Scroll down and re-read my first reply and answer the unanswered > questions. > Don't make me be Dr. House on you! ;-) (I hope you watch that TV show so > you'll know what I'm talking about) LOL > > As far as the fluidized bed, I'm not sure how that will affect your > cycling. > Do you have a brand/model number on it? I'd like to read up more on your > model. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -------------------- > FROM: amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > DATE: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:20:01 -0900 > SUBJECT: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > Ammonia ~ .25, PH ~ 6.1, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is 0. using the API > freshwater master test kit. > > Amber > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > I didn't test any of the other numbers, but I can after I post this > message. > The filter has been cleaned, but the carbon has not been changed is what I > meant. The plants were not treated at the LFS, in fact you could watch the > snails moving around the large planted tanks that they keep. They keep > loaches in to keep the snail population down to a minimum. I didn't bleach > the plants, just rinsed them really well before putting them in my tank. I > dosed the flourish exel by the dosing instructions on the bottle, and had > only put in the first dose and the next day my ammonia went up high enough > for me to see the tank get the white cloudiness and it was reading at .5 > after I did a 25% water change, so I waited an hour and took out > another 10 > gallons (from my 55 gallon tank), took another ammonia reading and I > had it > down to .25, so I waited an hour and took out another 10 gallons, at that > point I had taken out 45 approximate gallons and put in new water, > that's a > pretty drastic change to have to get my ammonia back down to 0. The last > time I checked my nitrates/nitrites they were both at 0 (last week). I > will > test them now and update with the current numbers. I also took out another > 10 gallons this evening just to be safe, in case the ammonia had built > back > up in 24 hours. > I also run a fluidized bed filter for up to 300 gallons, though to be > honest > I'm not quite sure if it's doing anything or not, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. I'm going to bounce a few ideas around here. > > > > When you say your ammonia "skyrocketed".. how high did it get? Give us > > the pH, nitrite, nitrate numbers as well. > > > > When you say "2 1/2 months"... do you mean you haven't cleaned it in > > that long? Changing it should not be an issue since most filter media > > will last for years and years until it is starting to fall apart > > before it has to be changed... but it still has to be cleaned, in > > removed tank water, on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. I just want to > > make sure you understand that process. > > > > Plants should not cause a cycle unless the plants include something > > dead hidden in them that is decomposing. > > > > As far as the live plants... did you clean them and disinfect them > > when you got home or just put them in your tank? Were the live plants > > in a big fresh water tank at the store? I've read that many plant > > shippers will treat their plants to try and kill off snails.. usually > > using a copper based solution but maybe something else. Also.. did the > > store maybe treat them with a bleach dip and not rinse enough? Even a > > drop of bleach in your tank would be enough chlorine to kill off > > some/all of your good nitrifying bacteria and that would cause an > > ammonia spike and an entire mini- or full cycle. > > > > Are you sure you got any/all of the dead fish out? > > > > What brand test kit? > > > > Do you have a lot of algae in your tank? Did you overdose the Excel? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > > > Okay I have not changed my filter media yet (it's only been 2 1/2 > > months on new media). I have also not added any new fish in nearly a > > month as well, and when I did it was only 2 loaches (who have also > > died in the last month, I think something was picking on them). Would > > adding live plants to a tank cause it to cycle again? I added a few > > plants each week this last month, and that was the only other live > > stuff I've put into my tank. Last week I got some Flourish Excel to > > put in my tank for my plants and my ammonia skyrocketted and I had to > > do several PWC's yesterday to get my ammonia back down close to 0 > > where it should have been. I have not put more of the flourish excel > > in my tank, as I wasn't sure if it would affect the ammonia or not, > > but didn't want to chance it without asking to see what you guys > > thought about the situation. My tank was cycled before I added plants > > this last month, and I figured 2-3 plants a week wouldn't affect it > > too much. I also haven't added any new plants in nearly 2 weeks as > > well (or fish as I said). Thankfully I didn't lose any fish when the > > ammonia went up yesterday, as I caught it right away and did several > > PWC's over a few hours. > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 > Tested on: 11/18/2008 8:42:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33252	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: REVIEW: The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums

This book is out of print. However, it is pretty much available on the used book market. I just did a quick Amazon.com search and found 29 listings, and over the past year, I have seen it in several used book stores. Wickham, Mike, 1998, _The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums_, Alpha Books (Macmillan), ISBN 0-87605-327-4 This is a book that covers much of what we talk about here, on the list. It is meant for the novice aquarist, to help them get off on the right foot, and it does it in a fun way. It is not a bad investment for those of you who have been in the hobby for a while. Most of the information is solid, however, there are some things that are a bit dated. For example, there is no discussion of a fishless cycle, just cycling the tank with animals present, and a way of speeding the time of establishing they cycle. But the book goes through the process of setting up a tank step by step, starting with an answer to the question "Why to keep fish?", selecting kind of fish you may want to keep, the tank selection, filtration, etc. he goes into the question of how many fish can I keep, and shows a table based not only on the length of the fish, but the proportionate size of the fish compared to a 1" fish. Some of the humor in the book is represented by this "table": "You know that your tank is too crowded when . . . ". . . you toss in just one more fish, and it bounces. ". . . you toss in just one more fish, and they toss it back. ". . . you toss in just one more fish, and the floor sags. ". . . you can turn the lights on and the bottom of the tank is still dark. ". . . you remove all of the fish and the water level drops 75 percent. ". . . sardine cans begin to look roomy. ". . . you can't do a 25 percent water change without the fish on top getting dry. ". . . all of the fish swim to one side, and the other side rises an inch. ". . . the only air pump that is big enough is made by Boeing. ". . . the algae eaters have to cling to the _outside_ glass. ". . . you can do a 50 percent water change with a thimble. ". . . your ammonia eating bacteria have grown to five pounds each. ". . . your fish _beg_ you to flush them down the toilet. ". . . the cat walks across the top of the aquarium and you have no lid on it." Mike goes through a number of fish commonly available, giving minimal descriptions of each, that may help you in making some choices of which fish to keep. Unfortunately, the descriptions are much too brief to be of any real help, and I would refer you to other books that give you more in depth descriptions as being the place to look to base your decisions, or online sources. After giving the warning that you should not mess with your water chemistry, unless it can be attributed to a problem in the tank, Mike proceeds to offer some advice how to change the pH and hardness of the water. This discussion is followed by one on water changes. Feeding your fish consumes the next chapter of the book. There is a brief section on nutrition, and on how to feed. Then various foods are covered. There are short sections on breeding and using live plants in the tank. Then the book goes on to deal with certain problems you may face, algae, fairly common diseases seen in captive populations, and aggression among your fish. Mike then covers some aquarium myths, mysteries, and misinformation. Mike mentions a number of books for reference, some of which were out of print when he wrote this book, and others that have joined them since the book was released. Most of these books may still be found and are still readily available at used book shops and most through specialty dealers of aquatic literature. Some, such as the Baensch Atlases, that are still in print readily available at a number of sources. Reference is also made to FISHNET on CompuServe, which no longer exists. The remnants of FISHNET may be found at http://www.petsforum.com For those of you who think the name Mike Wickham is familiar, just take a look at _Aquarium Fish International_ for which he has been a long time columnist. He has also published 4 other books, and has been working on a couple of others. I should also add that Mike and I are acquaintances, having known each other for more than 20 years. We correspond occasionally via e-mail, and meet once in a while at various events across the country. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33253	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Wor

Bill, For best ease in controlling the effects of this crushed coral, you should consider retaining it in a nylon bag, which can easily be removed if you find your hardness and pH increasing more than you desired. Even if not being able to place in your filter, it will still serve to act on your water when placed in your tank. An airstone near it will help in circulating water past it, ensuring more contact with the water. The crushed coral can be mixed directly into the substrate, but if its effects are more rapid than you expected, the only way to reduced these effects then would be by increased PWC's. Before we get too far into this water parameter doctoring, it needs to be realized that a much higher pH will predetermine the amounts of your water changes. Let's say that you successfully raise and maintain your tank pH at 6.8. With your doing a partial water change of even 25% with your low KH - low GH ph 5.5 water, your tank pH will drop to 6.48 (just under pH 6.5), from pH 6.8. For least stress on fish, they should not receive more than a 0.2 difference in pH at any one time; this would be subjecting them to a 0.325 difference in pH. The hardness/pH boosters -- oyster shell, crushed coral, cuttle bone, dolomite, limestone, etc. -- do not act immediately, and cannot prevent a sudden drop when using your well water for PWC's. You can see by this why its usually not adviseable to play with changing your water as it only makes it harder to maintain it. Let's get back to your present conditions. While you may feel that your pH 5.5 to 6.0 sounds too low for fish maintenance, Neon Tetras do about their best in a pH of 5.5 to 6.0 (sounds familiar, lol). Cardinal Tetras are found in the wild at pH 4.8 to 5.2. The Apistogramma agassizi you mentioned are found in water having pH 5.0 to pH 6.5, the Microgeophagus ramerizi are found in water of pH 4.5 to pH 6.5, Crenicara (Dicrossus) maculata -- Dwarf Checkerboard Cichlid -- is found in pH 5.0 to pH 7.0. There are many fish, including some you've expressed an interest in, which would feel right at home in your water as it is. With your well water at pH 5.5, the highest you can safely boost your tank water to while doing 25% PWC's would be pH 6.4. PWC's of 20% would allow you to boost it to 6.6. This, to prevent drastic pH swings when doing your PWC's. When you well water is at pH 6.0, you'd be allowed boost your tank's pH to 6.8 and still do 25% PWC's. Getting back to the pH's those fish come from in the wild, the spread you see is the result of natural seasonal fluctuations depending on rainfall amounts, etc. At pH 6.8, you might be allowed to maintain Platy's but only with the addition of salt (your present TDS is too low for them), and Tetras don't like too much salt. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Probably the best response I had came from Ray in suggesting plain crushed coral to be added to the substrate in the tank it self along with Lenny's suggestions on using Baking Soda.  Because the tank is small the power filter is one of those in the hood jobs so there isn't much room or coral or limestone.  Ray's recommendations are based on raising the PH with the baking soda but also the crushed coral to act as a buffer and increase the overall hardness.  Which, if I have learned my lessons properly, is to buffer and hold Ph at a desired level ...hopefully. >   > According to what Ray and others have told me you will experience swings if your not careful and all things (GH & KH) do not remain in balance.  I'm not one to be giving you advice but with the Ph you quoted, why create a problem and maybe extra work for yourself to boot! >   > My problem(s) and how all of this started came from a very simple root.  And it's what everyone forgot when they tried to advise me in NOT doctoring water. The LPS or in my case---------------Wal-Mart.  Don't laugh!  They're closest thing I have.  Anyway, I already knew that THEY are on city water that comes in at 6.5 to 6.8, just slightly below neutral.  With my well water with a reading of 5.5 constant, you can see my problem.  Buying fish at all could be like playing Russian roulette with their lives and I'm not that kind of person.  > So it's either "raise the bridge or lower the river"!  That's how I got into Water Doctoring business at start with.  Don't forget to respond to my post of just a moment ago about Fish Food. >   > Bill > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 8:16 PM > > I don't know if this is an option or not, but what about getting a > different sand/substrate mix that has a buffering capacity in it? The > african mixes say they will buffer into the 8.0 range, but not sure what > it would do with such a low PH as yours. There are also plant mixes that > are supposed to buffer the PH to 6.5-7 range. > I have considered doing the same since my PH sits around 6.2 but wasn't > sure if my tank would fluxuate with each water change I do, and since I > do 2-3 PWC's a week I didn't want my tank swinging around in the PH > department and killing off my fish. But then again I don't even know if > this will happen. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > > No snow but windy as the devil! > > > > No, truth be told, nothing changed in the KH/GH department. We never got > the limestone or anything else and I suppose that's why it dropped. It > would be the devil trying to put it into the filter, not much room and the only > recourse would be pieces right in the tank itself. I think it was Ray that > warned me that this would happen. Not bad, but just enough so you would notice. > I was crazy, trying this out on a tank this small. > > > > I remember about your recommendations on the water itself and trying to > change parameters, but I was just hoping to get up out of the cellar with those > Ph readings. But then, you can't change nature can you? I want to watch my > fish, not play with Test Kits all day and that's just what I was doing. I > should know better. Fish will adapt but that high acid makes me think it was > even worse. > > > > This kit, or any of them for that matter, aren't "brain surgery" > accurate, so you get what you get, but using the same kit constantly is the only > way to set up any kind of a baseline at all. I'll probably try this little > experiment further down the road with a bigger tank and some buffering in place. > I read and printed those Ph information links as well as the tips on doctoring > but hopefully we will be doing a new setup shortly. I just hope this guy > doesn't way until the snow is flying to finally decide that today's the day > we sell Bill that tank. > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's > question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's > ecology > > between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down > > between PWC's. > > > > What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. > > > > It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. > Have you > > seen any "snow" in your tank? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > > Mail?) > > > > Ya---------- ----right! > > > > I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake.. > > Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????? ???????? > > Bad news? Yes! > > Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph is on > > the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a day or > > so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to temper the > > water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers crossed and > > lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more to talk > about on > > water but. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > > Mail?) > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. > com> > > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM > > > > I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute > YouTube video.... is > > that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to > their > > tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. > > > > So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you > have > > to knock-out your wife first? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > > Mail?) > > > > Hi, > > > > I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. > > > > If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! > > > > http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. > > net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> > > > > click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! > > > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > > Mail?) > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. > com> > > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM > > > > Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started > > reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. > > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php > > > > Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine > about > > "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new > editions > > come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past > > articles. > > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM > > To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > > Mail?) > > > > Laura, > > > > While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, > > flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. > Crushing > > them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your > > garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they > > can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native > invasive > > species. > > Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib > usually > > takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini > article > > and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are > > several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming > > out.. > > http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > > Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? > > > > LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire > worms > > out of my 75 gal salt water tank. > > They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge > > of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to > > grab.. > > I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the > > shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. > > I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. > > I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? > > Laura in KY > > > > In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, > > warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: > > > > Must be a slow mail day? > > > > Bill > > > > _ > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 > > Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:49:57 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33254	From: Lisa	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Dwarf Gorami

Can i have more then two? or is it best to keep them on their own with some cardnal tetras? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33255	From: Rebecca	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Horsehair worms in ghost shrimp!

Just found out that the "neat looking white coloration" in one of my shrimp is a parasite called horsehair worm. I now have all of my ghost shrimp quarantined. All the parasite medicine I found have warnings that they can kill invertebrates. I did find some medicated anti-parasite food but it has a form of copper in it. I have found information on the internet that says iodine can be used to treat this parasite in ghost shrimp. Does anyone know the dose/frequency/duration for iodine treatment? Would this be the same iodine humans use or is there a special freshwater aquarium iodine? Any ideas? Thanks in advance. - Lady Shmoe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33256	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Petsmart?

I think I'm who said that. Packages from Petsmart routinely take a week and a half to show up, more than twice as long as it takes packages from almost anywhere else. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@...> To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:45 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Petsmart? With all the talk here about Petsmart I figure now would be a good time to ask. Before I go and order that fish food we just talked about yesterday. Has anyone in the group dealt with them as an online or mail order customer? Someone just remarked that they are very slow. Are they? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33257	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Horsehair worms in ghost shrimp!

I had read a thread on these once and was able to find it and a little more using Google. This first .pdf file from the U. of Florida is the most informative and lists several references that you can Google for more details... http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/IN/IN27400.pdf http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/e614horsehair.html http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=16673 (thread and continuation of thread below) (pictures of shrimp with worm) http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc167/angelacbishop/100_1993.jpg http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc167/angelacbishop/100_1995.jpg http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=16730 NANFA (N. American Native Fish Assn.) is a pretty good group of folks with lots of experience. Here's a couple of their threads with lots of close-up pics. http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php?showtopic=3380 (3 page thread) http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php?showtopic=873 http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php?showtopic=4164 Hope some of this helps. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rebecca Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Horsehair worms in ghost shrimp! Just found out that the "neat looking white coloration" in one of my shrimp is a parasite called horsehair worm. I now have all of my ghost shrimp quarantined. All the parasite medicine I found have warnings that they can kill invertebrates. I did find some medicated anti-parasite food but it has a form of copper in it. I have found information on the internet that says iodine can be used to treat this parasite in ghost shrimp. Does anyone know the dose/frequency/duration for iodine treatment? Would this be the same iodine humans use or is there a special freshwater aquarium iodine? Any ideas? Thanks in advance. - Lady Shmoe _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 12:46:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Peas

I feed my fish peas as an only meal at least once a week to try and keep them regular. I don't think peas have a lot of nutritional value but the fish sure like them. It probably would be comparable to chocolate to us... chocolate flavored Exlax. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding Peas I just fed some green peas to my fish for the first time. They really ate them well. I don't suspect any constipation problems, but just thought I would give it a try. Is there any benefit over commercially prepared fish food occasionally? How often would you recommend feeding peas? Should they be used only for there therapeutic effect? I just put a few frozen peas in a cup of hot water and let them set for a few minutes and mashed the centers out of the peeling and droped them in. Sent from my iPod Jimmy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 12:49:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33259	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. ma...

thats a very fitting name. They seem to be smarter than the average fish. Is personality common for the Cichlid? ________________________________ From: "AwlArtist@..." <AwlArtist@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:04:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. ma... Wow, when my girls were little, I had a red devil cichlid. I could keep NOTHING in the tank with him. I put a plecostomus in there. They were fine when I went to bed. In the morning, Big Guy had bit the pleco in two, and left it lay. He didn't eat it, but he sure didn't want him as a room mate, either, lol. He regularly arranged the gravel to suit himself. I would flatten it out, but in the morning, it would be all humped up to one side again. He loved my girls. I have a few photos of the girls standing by the Christmas tree, he is in the corner of the tank, being cute. He hated one of my girlfriends. The feeling was mutual. She would come for a visit and flip the fish off, he would swim aggressivly, like he was trying to come through the glass to get a piece of her!! That is one fish with a definate personality! !! Love them!!! Can't find them around here or I would definately be setting up a new tank!!! Laura in KY In a message dated 11/18/2008 2:53:59 PM Central Standard Time, allie1068@yahoo. com writes: well with his 8 inch red devil ************ **You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster. com (http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100000075x121263 9737x1200784900/ aol?redir= https://www. blockbuster. com/signup/ y/reg/p.26978/ r.email_footer) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33260	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. ma...

The Cichlid Family in general are smarter than the average fish; they are more highly evolved. Yes, personality (and to a good extent, individuality) is a common attribute of Cichlids, seen mostly in New World Cichlids, but including also many of those from West Africa,, Madagascar and Asia to some extent. Rift Lake Cichlids, especially those which breeding behavior encompasses mouthbrooding (and including most other African mouthbrooders) are not as individualate as their evolution has not necessitated it. While there are partial mouthbrooder species in South America, their further advancement has allowed for separable behavior, and "personality" to go along with it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Chris Johnson <crjm28@...> wrote: > > thats a very fitting name. They seem to be smarter than the average fish. Is personality common for the Cichlid? > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "AwlArtist@..." <AwlArtist@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:04:56 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. ma... > > > > Wow, when my girls were little, I had a red devil cichlid. > I could keep NOTHING in the tank with him. > I put a plecostomus in there. > They were fine when I went to bed. > In the morning, Big Guy had bit the pleco in two, and left it lay. > He didn't eat it, but he sure didn't want him as a room mate, either, lol. > He regularly arranged the gravel to suit himself. I would flatten it out, but > in the morning, it would be all humped up to one side again. > He loved my girls. I have a few photos of the girls standing by the Christmas > tree, he is in the corner of the tank, being cute. > He hated one of my girlfriends. > The feeling was mutual. > She would come for a visit and flip the fish off, he would swim aggressivly, > like he was trying to come through the glass to get a piece of her!! > That is one fish with a definate personality! !! > Love them!!! > Can't find them around here or I would definately be setting up a new tank!!! > Laura in KY > > > In a message dated 11/18/2008 2:53:59 PM Central Standard Time, > allie1068@yahoo. com writes: > > well with his 8 inch red devil > > ************ **You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from > blockbuster. com > (http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100000075x121263 9737x1200784900/ aol?redir= https://www. blockbuster. com/signup/ y/reg/p.26978/ r.email_footer) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33261	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

In the size tank you are talking about, you are better off with just one pair, meaning male and female, in the tank's population. Males are somewhat territorial, and the size of your tank would not really offer enough territory for two males with females present. I am not aware of the availability of females in Australia, but in the US, it is difficult to find females in the stores. In the 22 gallons you mention (is it 22 UK gallons--larger than US gallons? You never did let me know.) Two males would be more than sufficient. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Gorami Can i have more then two? or is it best to keep them on their own with some cardnal tetras? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33262	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Peas

Peas are rich in vitamins B and C, I think. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:49 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeding Peas I feed my fish peas as an only meal at least once a week to try and keep them regular. I don't think peas have a lot of nutritional value but the fish sure like them. It probably would be comparable to chocolate to us... chocolate flavored Exlax. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33263	From: bill1433	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Bill's water tests

Hi Ray, � Double check on the nylon bags they are currently on sale at Fosters and Smith along with some nice 100-watt heaters.� I also figured that in order to have some control they would be needed to remove material as necessary and also control the amount even inside the tank. � Today I have decided to try a water change without doctoring and see how the fish due over time.� I don�t have the coral yet and since I�m still waiting on the darn tank (it didn�t takem� this long to film Ben Hur!), there is little else to be done until it actually gets here.� Moreover, the tank comes without a power filter and I will be getting an Aqua Clear 50 for it.� I am not going to order or do anything buying wise, until I actually have the tank here. � Acclamation of the fish is actually a misnomer in that I only did the basic floating and water mixing.� And then a small water change.� I don�t believe in adding anyone�s water to my tanks and never did.� I float first then at temperature give the fish a bucket and mix the waters very slowly with an air-stone supplied.� When the water level is 3 times what it was from the bag I then net the fish and put them into the tank.� But not the water, that�s discarded and fresh added to re-fill the tank to its proper level..� I must be doing something right because they are all alive and doing ok. � Of course, this is actually guilt by admission in that we were not doing anything to the water at the time these fish were purchased so that proves �Ray� knows what he�s talking about when he says the fish will do fine in this water.� I�ll keep you advised and we�ll see how they do and me too! � Bill --- On Tue, 11/18/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 11:10 PM Bill, For best ease in controlling the effects of this crushed coral, you should consider retaining it in a nylon bag, which can easily be removed if you find your hardness and pH increasing more than you desired. Even if not being able to place in your filter, it will still serve to act on your water when placed in your tank. An airstone near it will help in circulating water past it, ensuring more contact with the water. The crushed coral can be mixed directly into the substrate, but if its effects are more rapid than you expected, the only way to reduced these effects then would be by increased PWC's. Before we get too far into this water parameter doctoring, it needs to be realized that a much higher pH will predetermine the amounts of your water changes. Let's say that you successfully raise and maintain your tank pH at 6.8. With your doing a partial water change of even 25% with your low KH - low GH ph 5.5 water, your tank pH will drop to 6.48 (just under pH 6.5), from pH 6.8. For least stress on fish, they should not receive more than a 0.2 difference in pH at any one time; this would be subjecting them to a 0.325 difference in pH. The hardness/pH boosters -- oyster shell, crushed coral, cuttle bone, dolomite, limestone, etc. -- do not act immediately, and cannot prevent a sudden drop when using your well water for PWC's. You can see by this why its usually not adviseable to play with changing your water as it only makes it harder to maintain it. Let's get back to your present conditions. While you may feel that your pH 5.5 to 6.0 sounds too low for fish maintenance, Neon Tetras do about their best in a pH of 5.5 to 6.0 (sounds familiar, lol). Cardinal Tetras are found in the wild at pH 4.8 to 5.2. The Apistogramma agassizi you mentioned are found in water having pH 5.0 to pH 6.5, the Microgeophagus ramerizi are found in water of pH 4.5 to pH 6.5, Crenicara (Dicrossus) maculata -- Dwarf Checkerboard Cichlid -- is found in pH 5.0 to pH 7.0. There are many fish, including some you've expressed an interest in, which would feel right at home in your water as it is. With your well water at pH 5.5, the highest you can safely boost your tank water to while doing 25% PWC's would be pH 6.4. PWC's of 20% would allow you to boost it to 6.6. This, to prevent drastic pH swings when doing your PWC's. When you well water is at pH 6.0, you'd be allowed boost your tank's pH to 6.8 and still do 25% PWC's. Getting back to the pH's those fish come from in the wild, the spread you see is the result of natural seasonal fluctuations depending on rainfall amounts, etc. At pH 6.8, you might be allowed to maintain Platy's but only with the addition of salt (your present TDS is too low for them), and Tetras don't like too much salt. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Probably the best response I had came from Ray in suggesting plain crushed coral to be added to the substrate in the tank it self along with Lenny's suggestions on using Baking Soda.� Because the tank is small the power filter is one of those in the hood jobs so there isn't much room or coral or limestone.� Ray's recommendations are based on raising the PH with the baking soda but also the crushed coral to act as a buffer and increase the overall hardness.� Which, if I have learned my lessons properly, is to buffer and hold Ph at a desired level������������...hopefully. > � > According to what Ray and others have told me you will experience swings if your not careful and all things (GH & KH) do not remain in balance.� I'm not one to be giving you advice but with the Ph you quoted, why create a problem and maybe extra work for yourself to boot! > � > My problem(s) and how all of this started came from a very simple root.� And it's what everyone forgot when they tried to advise me in NOT doctoring water. The LPS or in my case-------- -------Wal- Mart.� Don't laugh!� They're closest thing I have.� Anyway, I already knew that THEY are on city water that comes in at 6.5 to 6.8, just slightly below neutral.� With my well water with a reading of 5.5 constant, you can see my problem.� Buying fish at all could be like playing Russian roulette with their lives and I'm not that kind of person.� > So it's either "raise the bridge or lower the river"!� That's how I got into Water Doctoring business at start with.� Don't forget to respond to my post of just a moment ago about Fish Food. > � > Bill > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 8:16 PM > > I don't know if this is an option or not, but what about getting a > different sand/substrate mix that has a buffering capacity in it? The > african mixes say they will buffer into the 8.0 range, but not sure what > it would do with such a low PH as yours. There are also plant mixes that > are supposed to buffer the PH to 6.5-7 range. > I have considered doing the same since my PH sits around 6.2 but wasn't > sure if my tank would fluxuate with each water change I do, and since I > do 2-3 PWC's a week I didn't want my tank swinging around in the PH > department and killing off my fish. But then again I don't even know if > this will happen. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > > No snow but windy as the devil! > > > > No, truth be told, nothing changed in the KH/GH department. We never got > the limestone or anything else and I suppose that's why it dropped. It > would be the devil trying to put it into the filter, not much room and the only > recourse would be pieces right in the tank itself. I think it was Ray that > warned me that this would happen. Not bad, but just enough so you would notice. > I was crazy, trying this out on a tank this small. > > > > I remember about your recommendations on the water itself and trying to > change parameters, but I was just hoping to get up out of the cellar with those > Ph readings. But then, you can't change nature can you? I want to watch my > fish, not play with Test Kits all day and that's just what I was doing. I > should know better. Fish will adapt but that high acid makes me think it was > even worse. > > > > This kit, or any of them for that matter, aren't "brain surgery" > accurate, so you get what you get, but using the same kit constantly is the only > way to set up any kind of a baseline at all. I'll probably try this little > experiment further down the road with a bigger tank and some buffering in place. > I read and printed those Ph information links as well as the tips on doctoring > but hopefully we will be doing a new setup shortly. I just hope this guy > doesn't way until the snow is flying to finally decide that today's the day > we sell Bill that tank. > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bill's water tests (was - AwlArtist's > question about SW Fire Worms (was - Mail?) > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill... pH will always come down as a natural part of the tank's > ecology > > between PWC's. The heavier the bioload, the faster it will come down > > between PWC's. > > > > What are all of your test results... GH, KH, pH, etc. > > > > It could be your GH wasn't high enough to sustain the KH increase. > Have you > > seen any "snow" in your tank? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > > Mail?) > > > > Ya---------- ----right! > > > > I forgot to just tell them to click on the botton of the page. My mistake.. > > Some good news? Suppose to have 30-gallon soon???????? ???????? > > Bad news? Yes! > > Water doctoring failed! Something changed quick no deaths yet but Ph is on > > the going down side. Next trick? Coming up with another PWC in a day or > > so. What are we going to do? Only one thing. We are going to temper the > > water to tank temperature and that's it. Get your fingers crossed and > > lighting a few candles wouldn't hurt either! There's more to talk > about on > > water but. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > > Mail?) > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. > com> > > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 PM > > > > I don't see the "Live Cam" but I did see a ten minute > YouTube video.... is > > that what you were referring to? I have seen folks with live cam's to > their > > tanks before but not on that site.. although it is a nice tank. > > > > So Bill... which wall are you thinking about knocking out? Or will you > have > > to knock-out your wife first? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > > Mail?) > > > > Hi, > > > > I followed Len's link here and found a bit more. > > > > If you have 10 minutes to watch some really beautiful fish check this out! > > > > http://www.prtc. net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm <http://www.prtc. > > net/~luisgon/ luisgo125. htm> > > > > click on Live Cam--------- -and just enjoy! > > > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% > > 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > > Mail?) > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. > com> > > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 1:28 PM > > > > Well... I was curious, even though I do not keep SW fish, and started > > reading a little more and found this LONG article all about Fireworms. > > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ 2003-04/rs/ index.php > > > > Then, while looking at that site, I see it's a FREE online magazine > about > > "Reefkeeping" and you can subscribe to it to get emails when new > editions > > come out or you can just browse through all of the current and past > > articles. > > http://www.reefkeep ing.com/issues/ index.php > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@ gmail. com] > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:22 PM > > To: 'AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com' > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] AwlArtist's question about SW Fire Worms > (was - > > Mail?) > > > > Laura, > > > > While it is most likely that the freshwater and flushing will kill these, > > flushing is never a good idea for disposal of fish, critters, etc. > Crushing > > them, bleaching them and/or freezing them and then putting them in your > > garbage would likely be a better option to make sure they are dead so they > > can't possibly become an issue in the environment as a non-native > invasive > > species. > > Here's an old thread/article about them on TheKrib.com. TheKrib > usually > > takes selected posts from a thread and puts them together as a mini > article > > and their information is usually very, very accurate.. of course, many are > > several years old so there is always a chance of new information coming > > out.. > > http://www.thekrib. com/Marine/ bristle.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under > > Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of AwlArtist@aol. com > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail? > > > > LOL, I have the youngest grand boy today, but was just tweezering fire > worms > > out of my 75 gal salt water tank. > > They are hairy, ugly things!! There is a big one that lives under the edge > > of the cave. I am having trouble enticing him out far enough for me to > > grab.. > > I found the most in empty shells, those were easy captires, tweeze the > > shell, tip it over till you see sand and worm, then grab him. > > I am putting them in tap water, then flushing them. > > I am pretty sure my daughter said fresh water kills them, is that correct? > > Laura in KY > > > > In a message dated 11/17/2008 11:45:12 AM Central Standard Time, > > warrenprint@ yahoo.com <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> writes: > > > > Must be a slow mail day? > > > > Bill > > > > _ > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081116-1, 11/16/2008 > > Tested on: 11/17/2008 1:49:57 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33264	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

I agree with it being hard to find female dwarf gourami's, my LFS seems to only get males, which is unfortunate if you want to have a "happy" pair. I have 2 male dwarf flame gourami's in my 55 gallon tank and they each claim one side of the tank as their own, and chase the other male out of their area (as well as the angel-fish/tetras/danio's). Good luck finding a female, hopefully it will be easier for you :). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > In the size tank you are talking about, you are better off with just one > pair, meaning male and female, in the tank's population. Males are > somewhat territorial, and the size of your tank would not really offer > enough territory for two males with females present. I am not aware of > the availability of females in Australia, but in the US, it is difficult > to find females in the stores. In the 22 gallons you mention (is it 22 > UK gallons--larger than US gallons? You never did let me know.) Two > males would be more than sufficient. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Gorami > > Can i have more then two? or is it best to keep them on their own with > some cardnal tetras? > > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33265	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Peas

Thanks. That's what I wanted to know. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:49 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I feed my fish peas as an only meal at least once a week to try and keep them regular. I don't think peas have a lot of nutritional value but the fish sure like them. It probably would be comparable to chocolate to us... chocolate flavored Exlax. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:41 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding Peas I just fed some green peas to my fish for the first time. They really ate them well. I don't suspect any constipation problems, but just thought I would give it a try. Is there any benefit over commercially prepared fish food occasionally? How often would you recommend feeding peas? Should they be used only for there therapeutic effect? I just put a few frozen peas in a cup of hot water and let them set for a few minutes and mashed the centers out of the peeling and droped them in. Sent from my iPod Jimmy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 12:49:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33266	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)

Would not having cleaned my filter for about 3 weeks or so cause a mini-cycle? Oh and I forgot to tell you what fluidized bed filter I have. It's called "lifegard fluidized bed filter" I believe the model number is FB300, it's made for up to 300 gallons (it can work attached to a canister filter or a powerhead, I have it hooked up to a submerged powerhead in my tank). Basically all it does is (for lack of a better word) "churn" the sand around in the tank water and then it pours it back into the tank, it has a valve to turn the water power up, but also states in the instructions that it works better when the water is running slower through the bed filter/sand. So I have it turned nearly all the way down (for one thing when you turn it up over the medium point it seems to spit sand into the tank and I'm tired of refilling the bed filter, LOL). I have yet to hear if anyone else uses these effectively. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. So it looks more like you had only a mini-cycle... not "skyrocketed". > ;-) Skyrocketed, to me, would be in the 7.0 to 10.0 range. But let's try > to figure out why you had this mini-cycle. > > Had you just cleaned the filter right before this mini-cycle? Cleaning the > filter is good but if you over clean it or improperly clean it, this can > lead to a mini-cycle. > > Try to give me a precise history/timeline for the past several days > prior to > the white cloudy bacterial bloom which tested to be an ammonia mini-cycle. > > I'm also looking at your follow-up email (pasted below) with your numbers > and I'm concerned about your 0.0ppm nitrAte level. Normally, a tank > that is > cycling properly, would have some kind of a nitrate level. Is your pH > normally that low? Also, with a pH that low, your ammonia reading is > nothing to be worried about at all. With a pH in the 6's, you could have > 3-4ppm of ammonia and it would not be toxic to your fish. It's not good to > have but it's nothing to be alarmed about at low levels either. > > I've never used Flourish Excel but I understand it's like a liquid carbon > product (to replicate CO2) for heavily planted tanks. Is your tank heavily > planted? I've never had to use any kinds of plant additives in my tanks > with easy to grow plants and my tanks are "flourishing".. pardon the pun. > ;-) The fish waste, detritus, nitrates, CO2, etc., from the fish have > always been enough food. I'm not saying this is a problem, but I'm not > sure > you need to be adding this. > > Scroll down and re-read my first reply and answer the unanswered > questions. > Don't make me be Dr. House on you! ;-) (I hope you watch that TV show so > you'll know what I'm talking about) LOL > > As far as the fluidized bed, I'm not sure how that will affect your > cycling. > Do you have a brand/model number on it? I'd like to read up more on your > model. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -------------------- > FROM: amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > DATE: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:20:01 -0900 > SUBJECT: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > Ammonia ~ .25, PH ~ 6.1, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is 0. using the API > freshwater master test kit. > > Amber > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > I didn't test any of the other numbers, but I can after I post this > message. > The filter has been cleaned, but the carbon has not been changed is what I > meant. The plants were not treated at the LFS, in fact you could watch the > snails moving around the large planted tanks that they keep. They keep > loaches in to keep the snail population down to a minimum. I didn't bleach > the plants, just rinsed them really well before putting them in my tank. I > dosed the flourish exel by the dosing instructions on the bottle, and had > only put in the first dose and the next day my ammonia went up high enough > for me to see the tank get the white cloudiness and it was reading at .5 > after I did a 25% water change, so I waited an hour and took out > another 10 > gallons (from my 55 gallon tank), took another ammonia reading and I > had it > down to .25, so I waited an hour and took out another 10 gallons, at that > point I had taken out 45 approximate gallons and put in new water, > that's a > pretty drastic change to have to get my ammonia back down to 0. The last > time I checked my nitrates/nitrites they were both at 0 (last week). I > will > test them now and update with the current numbers. I also took out another > 10 gallons this evening just to be safe, in case the ammonia had built > back > up in 24 hours. > I also run a fluidized bed filter for up to 300 gallons, though to be > honest > I'm not quite sure if it's doing anything or not, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. I'm going to bounce a few ideas around here. > > > > When you say your ammonia "skyrocketed".. how high did it get? Give us > > the pH, nitrite, nitrate numbers as well. > > > > When you say "2 1/2 months"... do you mean you haven't cleaned it in > > that long? Changing it should not be an issue since most filter media > > will last for years and years until it is starting to fall apart > > before it has to be changed... but it still has to be cleaned, in > > removed tank water, on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. I just want to > > make sure you understand that process. > > > > Plants should not cause a cycle unless the plants include something > > dead hidden in them that is decomposing. > > > > As far as the live plants... did you clean them and disinfect them > > when you got home or just put them in your tank? Were the live plants > > in a big fresh water tank at the store? I've read that many plant > > shippers will treat their plants to try and kill off snails.. usually > > using a copper based solution but maybe something else. Also.. did the > > store maybe treat them with a bleach dip and not rinse enough? Even a > > drop of bleach in your tank would be enough chlorine to kill off > > some/all of your good nitrifying bacteria and that would cause an > > ammonia spike and an entire mini- or full cycle. > > > > Are you sure you got any/all of the dead fish out? > > > > What brand test kit? > > > > Do you have a lot of algae in your tank? Did you overdose the Excel? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > > > Okay I have not changed my filter media yet (it's only been 2 1/2 > > months on new media). I have also not added any new fish in nearly a > > month as well, and when I did it was only 2 loaches (who have also > > died in the last month, I think something was picking on them). Would > > adding live plants to a tank cause it to cycle again? I added a few > > plants each week this last month, and that was the only other live > > stuff I've put into my tank. Last week I got some Flourish Excel to > > put in my tank for my plants and my ammonia skyrocketted and I had to > > do several PWC's yesterday to get my ammonia back down close to 0 > > where it should have been. I have not put more of the flourish excel > > in my tank, as I wasn't sure if it would affect the ammonia or not, > > but didn't want to chance it without asking to see what you guys > > thought about the situation. My tank was cycled before I added plants > > this last month, and I figured 2-3 plants a week wouldn't affect it > > too much. I also haven't added any new plants in nearly 2 weeks as > > well (or fish as I said). Thankfully I didn't lose any fish when the > > ammonia went up yesterday, as I caught it right away and did several > > PWC's over a few hours. > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081118-0, 11/18/2008 > Tested on: 11/18/2008 8:42:03 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33267	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Naturalized Fishes

It is with a bit of trepidation that I post this message, but I do have some interest in this subject, and thought it may be worth a shot that this may be discussed by those with a similar interest in naturalization of various species of fishes. I came across this book as I was cleaning some of the papers off my desk (well, make that a lot of papers, maybe I'll soon learn what color my desk is <g>). The book is _Naturalized Fishes of the World_ by Christopher Lever, published by Academic Press. There is no actual copyright date, but the Acknowledgements is dated 1996. (ISBN 0-12-444745-7) The book lists a good number of species and their status of naturalization where they have been found in the world. Also listed is what their natural range is. An interesting note in the Introduction states that naturalization of fishes began back during the times of the Roman Empire, and that monks in the Middle Ages (AD 600-1500) transported the common carp and, to a lesser extent perch, between their monasteries for food sources. These fish were kept in ponds on the grounds of the monasteries, but that it is safe to assume that some found their way to natural bodies of water. The Introduction goes a bit into the whys and hows that have caused the naturalizations of fish into various waters. Specifically looking up the Zebra Danio, upon which an earlier discussion was centered, it is stated that they have been found in California, Florida, and New Mexico, but it was not known if they had become established in any of the waters where they were found (reference given is Courtnay _et al._, 1991). He then goes on to say that it has been established in Wyoming (Courtnay (1993)). I do not recall that Wyoming had been mentioned at all during that discussion. Remember, now, that this book is at least 12 years old, and does rely on research that was published before this book was, so it is rather plausible to assume that some of the information contained in its pages is out of date. For instance, I looked for _Channa_ spp., and found only _Channa striata_ which is listed as being naturalized in Hawaii, where it was introduced around 1900. There was no reference to _Channa_ sp. that have been found in the Potomac watershed in the Washington, DC area in the last few years, though there is not yet enough evidence that it has become established in those waters. This book is out of print, but there are some copies available through Amazon. Judging from the prices listed there, I stole this book when I purchased it. FWIW, if you know the fish's name, you can go to www.fishbase.org and look up the fish. Scrolling to the bottom of the page, there may be a link to a page that shows the status of the fish if it has been found as introduced or established anywhere in the world. It is called Introductions. Following the link for the zebra danio, it is shown as being established in Wyoming also, giving a different reference than Lever does. Those of you in Wyoming may want to determine where they are established in your state, and go out collecting them. Think of the stories you can tell about going to the far east to collect those fish <g>. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33268	From: Jenn	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Feeding Peas

I don't think there's a fish in any of my tanks that doesn't devour the peas when they get them (as a treat). I feed my Sulcata Tortoise peas about once a week and on that day my fish get some too. jenn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33269	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: PetsMart.com pricing compared to local PetsMart stores.. ma...

thats a very fitting name. They seem to be smarter than the average fish. Is personality common for the Cichlid? We have had smaller cichlids, the pretty ones that only get 4 inches or so and breed easily...Jewel Cichlids, maybe? I noticed some stuff on a glass rock in my brothers tank (years ago) and asked him if maybe they were eggs? We kept an eye on them... tank was in the dining room, so we could sit and look at it for hours :) A few days later, sure enough, lots of babies were swimming around. They grew up and were always 'scaredy cats'... nothing like the red devils that I love. The males (Red Devil) get a big 'ol hump on the forehead, the females don't, and there is a bit of difference in fin shape, as I recall :) It's been a really long time since I had one. **************Check out smokin’ hot deals on laptops, desktops and more from Dell. Shop Deals (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33270	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Naturalized Fishes

That was very interseting and informative! Thanks for posting! I have discovered wild guppies in the waterways here in Western Kentucky. People tell me I am nuts, but I have caught them and kept them. I have one now that came with a batch of minnows that we bought at Gander Mountain last summer. The females get larger than the 'domestic' guppies... is that the right word? But and inch and a half long for a female is a good sized guppy! The males don't really have much color on them, but I still like to catch and keep them. They are HARD to catch!!! Faster than minnows, they dart around and seem to know where you are going before you do. I have seen them in the backwaters of the Ohio River and in the shallows along the edge of the Ohio, by the hundreds, so it was not an isolated sighting, and several years in a row, so I am thinking they have established a wild population here. Laura **************Check out smokin’ hot deals on laptops, desktops and more from Dell. Shop Deals (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33271	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Naturalized Fishes

Interesting. I do not see any reports of them in the Ohio River basin, but I would suspect they are established elsewhere as well, just not reported. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@... Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Naturalized Fishes That was very interseting and informative! Thanks for posting! I have discovered wild guppies in the waterways here in Western Kentucky. People tell me I am nuts, but I have caught them and kept them. I have one now that came with a batch of minnows that we bought at Gander Mountain last summer. The females get larger than the 'domestic' guppies... is that the right word? But and inch and a half long for a female is a good sized guppy! The males don't really have much color on them, but I still like to catch and keep them. They are HARD to catch!!! Faster than minnows, they dart around and seem to know where you are going before you do. I have seen them in the backwaters of the Ohio River and in the shallows along the edge of the Ohio, by the hundreds, so it was not an isolated sighting, and several years in a row, so I am thinking they have established a wild population here. Laura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33272	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)

I copy/pasted both of your replies below to try and keep things in context. I'll answer paragraph by paragraph to try and keep me in context. LOL Not cleaning the filter for three weeks may or may not cause problems depending on how dirty it got. For example, if there was very little buildup of detritus/mulm and the oxygenated water was still flowing through the filter media good, then it should be OK. If there was a heavy build-up to the point that the water flow was impeded or the water was overtopping the filter cartridge, then the nitrifying bacteria may not be getting sufficient supply of oxygenated water and they could start dying off. Add that to the fact that this excess build-up would start decaying and putting out even more ammonia than just the fish and yes.. it could happen. The fluidized bed filter is not real common in the trade and it actually sounds and works like the filter system that I had on my swimming pool. I see on this page http://www.aquariumguys.com/aquarium-fluidized-bed-filters.html that they have a Rainbow Lifeguard FB300 so I'm guessing that is yours. They seem to be mostly for increased biological filtration and also since they work best with slow moving water, they are better for keeping CO2 in suspension for planted tanks. My only concern with this would be in cleaning it. With my pool filter, I would adjust a couple of valves and then back flush the dirty water down the drain. Does this have a similar way to easily clean it? I'm guessing you might find more users of this type of filter in high-tech planted tank forums. Now.. moving on to the second of your replies. First paragraph - no reply needed. It's good you didn't find any more dead fish. Ten plants could be considered heavily planted depending on the size of the tank and plants. I only have five 3" clay pots in my goldfish tank but one of them has a HUGE crypt growing which is about the size of a basketball now and the leaves are growing across the top of the water. The other clay pots mostly have large bunches of anacharis but also some dwarf sag but the sag isn't growing much compared to the other plants. For a 65G 48" x 18" goldfish tank, I consider mine moderately planted. If I had too much more in there the goldfish wouldn't be able to move around. I have the plants down the middle of the tank so there are runways across the front and back of the tank for them to utilize and room between each clay pot near the bottom. I guess the nitrates could be low because of all of the PWC's.. especially if your tap has 0.0ppm nitrates. As far as filter cleaning... I added this simple analogy/story to my "Filter Cleaning" article and posted it here recently but here it is again.. from Bill in the Ponds-Koi group... (START SNIP) FILTRATION: HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't doing its job and working to get the junk out of the water. Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take organics out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = rocks = really aren't a problem.) If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but also not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the water in solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. SO, the object of a good pond keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = clean the organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other day, every third day....... Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? Why not the flush the fishes' toilet also. :-) Bill (END SNIP) So.. the filter system is like our fishes toilet but unlike our own, we cannot use chemicals when cleaning the fishes toilet since there are also the good bacteria that we need in the filter so we only use some of the tank water to squeeze, swoosh and sloosh the filter media around in to remove the detritus without removing/killing the good bacteria. I think I've covered all of your info and questions from the two replies but read over mine and answer.. or at least answer in your own mind.. any question that I've posed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ----- First of Amber's two replies---- Would not having cleaned my filter for about 3 weeks or so cause a mini-cycle? Oh and I forgot to tell you what fluidized bed filter I have. It's called "lifegard fluidized bed filter" I believe the model number is FB300, it's made for up to 300 gallons (it can work attached to a canister filter or a powerhead, I have it hooked up to a submerged powerhead in my tank). Basically all it does is (for lack of a better word) "churn" the sand around in the tank water and then it pours it back into the tank, it has a valve to turn the water power up, but also states in the instructions that it works better when the water is running slower through the bed filter/sand. So I have it turned nearly all the way down (for one thing when you turn it up over the medium point it seems to spit sand into the tank and I'm tired of refilling the bed filter, LOL). I have yet to hear if anyone else uses these effectively. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. So it looks more like you had only a mini-cycle... not "skyrocketed". > ;-) Skyrocketed, to me, would be in the 7.0 to 10.0 range. But let's > try to figure out why you had this mini-cycle. > -----Original Message----- (second Amber reply) From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) I cleaned the tank very well (syphoned the gravel and moved around ornaments to syphon under them) yesterday when I did all the partial water changes, making sure there weren't any left over dead fish or hiding dead cory's perchance. I didn't find any more dead fish. I only have 10 live plants and a few fake ones, so I wouldn't say it's heavily planted (a couple of the plants are floating as well). The filter is actually due for a good rinsing, it has been about 3 weeks, I should have done that last night but was worried about getting the ammonia levels back down so there wasn't any more cloudiness in the tank. Perhaps the nitrate levels are 0 because of all the water changes I've done in the last 2 days? They were barely reading on the charts last week so I didn't think i would need to do another PWC for at least a few days, and 2 days later I tried adding flourish excel for the first time (this was 3 days ago from today). My PH is always in this range, usually somewhere between 6.1-6.3 at the most. My tap water is very close to the same PH (around 6.3 I think). Should I clean the filter really well tomorrow (in tank water of course)? I didn't feel like draining any more water tonight since I've already taken out 2 buckets ;). I slowly increased my lighting the last couple of weeks but I still don't have any excess algae build up, and I don't have any algae cleaners in the tank since all the oto's died over 3 weeks ago. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. So it looks more like you had only a mini-cycle... not "skyrocketed". > ;-) Skyrocketed, to me, would be in the 7.0 to 10.0 range. But let's > try to figure out why you had this mini-cycle. > > Had you just cleaned the filter right before this mini-cycle? Cleaning > the filter is good but if you over clean it or improperly clean it, > this can lead to a mini-cycle. > > Try to give me a precise history/timeline for the past several days > prior to the white cloudy bacterial bloom which tested to be an > ammonia mini-cycle. > > I'm also looking at your follow-up email (pasted below) with your > numbers and I'm concerned about your 0.0ppm nitrAte level. Normally, a > tank that is cycling properly, would have some kind of a nitrate > level. Is your pH normally that low? Also, with a pH that low, your > ammonia reading is nothing to be worried about at all. With a pH in > the 6's, you could have 3-4ppm of ammonia and it would not be toxic to > your fish. It's not good to have but it's nothing to be alarmed about > at low levels either. > > I've never used Flourish Excel but I understand it's like a liquid > carbon product (to replicate CO2) for heavily planted tanks. Is your > tank heavily planted? I've never had to use any kinds of plant > additives in my tanks with easy to grow plants and my tanks are "flourishing".. pardon the pun. > ;-) The fish waste, detritus, nitrates, CO2, etc., from the fish have > always been enough food. I'm not saying this is a problem, but I'm not > sure you need to be adding this. > > Scroll down and re-read my first reply and answer the unanswered > questions. > Don't make me be Dr. House on you! ;-) (I hope you watch that TV show > so you'll know what I'm talking about) LOL > > As far as the fluidized bed, I'm not sure how that will affect your > cycling. > Do you have a brand/model number on it? I'd like to read up more on > your model. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -------------------- > FROM: amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > DATE: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:20:01 -0900 > SUBJECT: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > Ammonia ~ .25, PH ~ 6.1, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is 0. using the API > freshwater master test kit. > > Amber > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > I didn't test any of the other numbers, but I can after I post this > message. > The filter has been cleaned, but the carbon has not been changed is > what I meant. The plants were not treated at the LFS, in fact you > could watch the snails moving around the large planted tanks that they > keep. They keep loaches in to keep the snail population down to a > minimum. I didn't bleach the plants, just rinsed them really well > before putting them in my tank. I dosed the flourish exel by the > dosing instructions on the bottle, and had only put in the first dose > and the next day my ammonia went up high enough for me to see the tank > get the white cloudiness and it was reading at .5 after I did a 25% > water change, so I waited an hour and took out another 10 gallons > (from my 55 gallon tank), took another ammonia reading and I had it > down to .25, so I waited an hour and took out another 10 gallons, at > that point I had taken out 45 approximate gallons and put in new > water, that's a pretty drastic change to have to get my ammonia back > down to 0. The last time I checked my nitrates/nitrites they were both > at 0 (last week). I will test them now and update with the current > numbers. I also took out another 10 gallons this evening just to be > safe, in case the ammonia had built back up in 24 hours. > I also run a fluidized bed filter for up to 300 gallons, though to be > honest I'm not quite sure if it's doing anything or not, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. I'm going to bounce a few ideas around here. > > > > When you say your ammonia "skyrocketed".. how high did it get? Give > > us the pH, nitrite, nitrate numbers as well. > > > > When you say "2 1/2 months"... do you mean you haven't cleaned it in > > that long? Changing it should not be an issue since most filter > > media will last for years and years until it is starting to fall > > apart before it has to be changed... but it still has to be cleaned, > > in removed tank water, on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. I just want > > to make sure you understand that process. > > > > Plants should not cause a cycle unless the plants include something > > dead hidden in them that is decomposing. > > > > As far as the live plants... did you clean them and disinfect them > > when you got home or just put them in your tank? Were the live > > plants in a big fresh water tank at the store? I've read that many > > plant shippers will treat their plants to try and kill off snails.. > > usually using a copper based solution but maybe something else. > > Also.. did the store maybe treat them with a bleach dip and not > > rinse enough? Even a drop of bleach in your tank would be enough > > chlorine to kill off some/all of your good nitrifying bacteria and > > that would cause an ammonia spike and an entire mini- or full cycle. > > > > Are you sure you got any/all of the dead fish out? > > > > What brand test kit? > > > > Do you have a lot of algae in your tank? Did you overdose the Excel? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > > > Okay I have not changed my filter media yet (it's only been 2 1/2 > > months on new media). I have also not added any new fish in nearly a > > month as well, and when I did it was only 2 loaches (who have also > > died in the last month, I think something was picking on them). > > Would adding live plants to a tank cause it to cycle again? I added > > a few plants each week this last month, and that was the only other > > live stuff I've put into my tank. Last week I got some Flourish > > Excel to put in my tank for my plants and my ammonia skyrocketted > > and I had to do several PWC's yesterday to get my ammonia back down > > close to 0 where it should have been. I have not put more of the > > flourish excel in my tank, as I wasn't sure if it would affect the > > ammonia or not, but didn't want to chance it without asking to see > > what you guys thought about the situation. My tank was cycled before > > I added plants this last month, and I figured 2-3 plants a week > > wouldn't affect it too much. I also haven't added any new plants in > > nearly 2 weeks as well (or fish as I said). Thankfully I didn't lose > > any fish when the ammonia went up yesterday, as I caught it right > > away and did several PWC's over a few hours. > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 1:19:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33273	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES

Sorry.. I'm not sure if anyone messages you off-list but I just noticed that nobody answered in the group. It's possibly because you referenced "saltwater ick..." and we have a lot more freshwater fish keepers here than saltwater fish keepers... or maybe the saltwater keepers saw you were talking about freshwater inverts.. anyhow.. I don't think the Ich that affects fish will find a host in shrimp... at least nothing I've read indicates that it can. So.. remove your fish or shrimp to a quarantine tank and treat the tank with the salt/heat treatment method or your Ich treatment of choice.. then after several weeks and everyone is cured, you can re-acclimate them together again. If you want more articles/details, let me know and I'll find some but I have Cherry Shrimp and have read lots of info on various shrimp forums and have never seen where shrimp can host the Ich parasite. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES I got ick from petco and i only have 3 little guys left. I lost my shrimp within a day. My question is that I researched for days and haven't seen a cure for invertebrates. I don't have anymore invertebrates now, but I don't want to add a chemical that will kill future ones. I am raising the temp and doing hydrosalinity, but if I had invertibrates that would kill them too! If I moved invertibrates to another tank to treat the main, they would only bring it back. Any info on this because I haven't seen a one? Thanks _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 3:47:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33274	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: euthanize help:

how do I end it gently for my betta, don't want to watch him suffer anymore. Erin B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33275	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: euthanize, never mind:

can't do it and I read some things were people have thought their fish were done for and then they pulled through. I doubt he will but you never know. Erin B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33276	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: starting a tank:

It has been quite a few years since I last had a tank. I have what I think is a 20 gallon (can't remember, which if you knew me and my memory is typical,lol) Is there some types,brands of filters that are better than others? What would anyone reccomend for this type of setup? Any advice greatly appreciated.:) thanks Erin B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33277	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling tank (again? ugh)

Okay well the filter is getting a good "slooshing" in tank water this evening then. It is a cansiter filter (magnum 350), I haven't noticed a lack of water power, so it's not clogged up but it may not be filtering as well as it was 3 weeks ago ;) As far as my fluidized bed filter, I really don't even know how to clean it, or if it's cleanable, there's no way to backflow the water (it only flows the way the powerhead pushes the water, and I would have to unscrew hoses and change where they hookup to make it flow the opposite, but it still wouldn't push the water out to clean it I think, as the powerhead is always pushing water, not sucking it out). I got the fluidized bed filter to set up a separate biological filtration instead of using just my magnum 350, in hopes that it would help keep my biological bacteria in line, which it doesn't seem to really be doing if my tank is cycling again, even if it's a mini-cycle LOL. Oh and to update, I found a dead cory today, it was alive yesterday so I'm guessing all the PWC's may have stressed out my cory's and thinned their slime coat? I have added melafix to the tank in case I have a case of fin and tail rot or something similar (the cory was fuzzy looking, so I assume there's something bad going on). I will have to examine closer tonight after work (I'm on lunch right now). My tap water is also 0.0 nitrates like you guessed, so I'm assuming all my water changes dropped the nitrates back down to 0 in my tank. All except for 2 of my plants are fairly short and small right now, only a couple reach the top of my tank and I have a couple floating ones as well, so only 8 are planted into the substrate and 6 of those are short, squat, plants. There's still plenty of swimming space in my 55 gallon. I have also stopped dosing the flourish excel for now until I get the situation back under control. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I copy/pasted both of your replies below to try and keep things in > context. > I'll answer paragraph by paragraph to try and keep me in context. LOL > > Not cleaning the filter for three weeks may or may not cause problems > depending on how dirty it got. For example, if there was very little > buildup of detritus/mulm and the oxygenated water was still flowing > through > the filter media good, then it should be OK. If there was a heavy build-up > to the point that the water flow was impeded or the water was overtopping > the filter cartridge, then the nitrifying bacteria may not be getting > sufficient supply of oxygenated water and they could start dying off. Add > that to the fact that this excess build-up would start decaying and > putting > out even more ammonia than just the fish and yes.. it could happen. > > The fluidized bed filter is not real common in the trade and it actually > sounds and works like the filter system that I had on my swimming pool. I > see on this page > http://www.aquariumguys.com/aquarium-fluidized-bed-filters.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/aquarium-fluidized-bed-filters.html> that > they > have a Rainbow Lifeguard FB300 so I'm guessing that is yours. They seem to > be mostly for increased biological filtration and also since they work > best > with slow moving water, they are better for keeping CO2 in suspension for > planted tanks. My only concern with this would be in cleaning it. With my > pool filter, I would adjust a couple of valves and then back flush the > dirty > water down the drain. Does this have a similar way to easily clean it? I'm > guessing you might find more users of this type of filter in high-tech > planted tank forums. > > Now.. moving on to the second of your replies. > > First paragraph - no reply needed. It's good you didn't find any more dead > fish. > > Ten plants could be considered heavily planted depending on the size > of the > tank and plants. I only have five 3" clay pots in my goldfish tank but one > of them has a HUGE crypt growing which is about the size of a > basketball now > and the leaves are growing across the top of the water. The other clay > pots > mostly have large bunches of anacharis but also some dwarf sag but the sag > isn't growing much compared to the other plants. For a 65G 48" x 18" > goldfish tank, I consider mine moderately planted. If I had too much more > in there the goldfish wouldn't be able to move around. I have the plants > down the middle of the tank so there are runways across the front and back > of the tank for them to utilize and room between each clay pot near the > bottom. > > I guess the nitrates could be low because of all of the PWC's.. especially > if your tap has 0.0ppm nitrates. > > As far as filter cleaning... I added this simple analogy/story to my > "Filter > Cleaning" article and posted it here recently but here it is again.. from > Bill in the Ponds-Koi group... > (START SNIP) > FILTRATION: > > HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. > > First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't > doing its > job and working to get the junk out of the water. > > Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take > organics > out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = rocks = really > aren't a problem.) > > If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but also > not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the water in > solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. > > SO, the object of a good pond keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = > clean the > organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other day, every > third > day....... > > Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... > > I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. > > Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. > > How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? > > Why not the flush the fishes' toilet also. > > :-) > > Bill > (END SNIP) > > So.. the filter system is like our fishes toilet but unlike our own, we > cannot use chemicals when cleaning the fishes toilet since there are also > the good bacteria that we need in the filter so we only use some of > the tank > water to squeeze, swoosh and sloosh the filter media around in to > remove the > detritus without removing/killing the good bacteria. > > I think I've covered all of your info and questions from the two > replies but > read over mine and answer.. or at least answer in your own mind.. any > question that I've posed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > ----- First of Amber's two replies---- > Would not having cleaned my filter for about 3 weeks or so cause a > mini-cycle? > Oh and I forgot to tell you what fluidized bed filter I have. > It's called "lifegard fluidized bed filter" I believe the model number is > FB300, it's made for up to 300 gallons (it can work attached to a canister > filter or a powerhead, I have it hooked up to a submerged powerhead in my > tank). Basically all it does is (for lack of a better > word) "churn" the sand around in the tank water and then it pours it back > into the tank, it has a valve to turn the water power up, but also > states in > the instructions that it works better when the water is running slower > through the bed filter/sand. So I have it turned nearly all the way down > (for one thing when you turn it up over the medium point it seems to spit > sand into the tank and I'm tired of refilling the bed filter, LOL). I have > yet to hear if anyone else uses these effectively. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. So it looks more like you had only a mini-cycle... not > "skyrocketed". > > ;-) Skyrocketed, to me, would be in the 7.0 to 10.0 range. But let's > > try to figure out why you had this mini-cycle. > > > > -----Original Message----- (second Amber reply) > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > I cleaned the tank very well (syphoned the gravel and moved around > ornaments > to syphon under them) yesterday when I did all the partial water changes, > making sure there weren't any left over dead fish or hiding dead cory's > perchance. I didn't find any more dead fish. > I only have 10 live plants and a few fake ones, so I wouldn't say it's > heavily planted (a couple of the plants are floating as well). > The filter is actually due for a good rinsing, it has been about 3 > weeks, I > should have done that last night but was worried about getting the ammonia > levels back down so there wasn't any more cloudiness in the tank. Perhaps > the nitrate levels are 0 because of all the water changes I've done in the > last 2 days? They were barely reading on the charts last week so I didn't > think i would need to do another PWC for at least a few days, and 2 days > later I tried adding flourish excel for the first time (this was 3 > days ago > from today). My PH is always in this range, usually somewhere between > 6.1-6.3 at the most. My tap water is very close to the same PH (around > 6.3 I > think). > Should I clean the filter really well tomorrow (in tank water of > course)? I > didn't feel like draining any more water tonight since I've already taken > out 2 buckets ;). I slowly increased my lighting the last couple of weeks > but I still don't have any excess algae build up, and I don't have any > algae > cleaners in the tank since all the oto's died over > 3 weeks ago. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. So it looks more like you had only a mini-cycle... not > "skyrocketed". > > ;-) Skyrocketed, to me, would be in the 7.0 to 10.0 range. But let's > > try to figure out why you had this mini-cycle. > > > > Had you just cleaned the filter right before this mini-cycle? Cleaning > > the filter is good but if you over clean it or improperly clean it, > > this can lead to a mini-cycle. > > > > Try to give me a precise history/timeline for the past several days > > prior to the white cloudy bacterial bloom which tested to be an > > ammonia mini-cycle. > > > > I'm also looking at your follow-up email (pasted below) with your > > numbers and I'm concerned about your 0.0ppm nitrAte level. Normally, a > > tank that is cycling properly, would have some kind of a nitrate > > level. Is your pH normally that low? Also, with a pH that low, your > > ammonia reading is nothing to be worried about at all. With a pH in > > the 6's, you could have 3-4ppm of ammonia and it would not be toxic to > > your fish. It's not good to have but it's nothing to be alarmed about > > at low levels either. > > > > I've never used Flourish Excel but I understand it's like a liquid > > carbon product (to replicate CO2) for heavily planted tanks. Is your > > tank heavily planted? I've never had to use any kinds of plant > > additives in my tanks with easy to grow plants and my tanks are > "flourishing".. pardon the pun. > > ;-) The fish waste, detritus, nitrates, CO2, etc., from the fish have > > always been enough food. I'm not saying this is a problem, but I'm not > > sure you need to be adding this. > > > > Scroll down and re-read my first reply and answer the unanswered > > questions. > > Don't make me be Dr. House on you! ;-) (I hope you watch that TV show > > so you'll know what I'm talking about) LOL > > > > As far as the fluidized bed, I'm not sure how that will affect your > > cycling. > > Do you have a brand/model number on it? I'd like to read up more on > > your model. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -------------------- > > FROM: amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > DATE: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:20:01 -0900 > > SUBJECT: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > > > Ammonia ~ .25, PH ~ 6.1, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is 0. using the API > > freshwater master test kit. > > > > Amber > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > > > I didn't test any of the other numbers, but I can after I post this > > message. > > The filter has been cleaned, but the carbon has not been changed is > > what I meant. The plants were not treated at the LFS, in fact you > > could watch the snails moving around the large planted tanks that they > > keep. They keep loaches in to keep the snail population down to a > > minimum. I didn't bleach the plants, just rinsed them really well > > before putting them in my tank. I dosed the flourish exel by the > > dosing instructions on the bottle, and had only put in the first dose > > and the next day my ammonia went up high enough for me to see the tank > > get the white cloudiness and it was reading at .5 after I did a 25% > > water change, so I waited an hour and took out another 10 gallons > > (from my 55 gallon tank), took another ammonia reading and I had it > > down to .25, so I waited an hour and took out another 10 gallons, at > > that point I had taken out 45 approximate gallons and put in new > > water, that's a pretty drastic change to have to get my ammonia back > > down to 0. The last time I checked my nitrates/nitrites they were both > > at 0 (last week). I will test them now and update with the current > > numbers. I also took out another 10 gallons this evening just to be > > safe, in case the ammonia had built back up in 24 hours. > > I also run a fluidized bed filter for up to 300 gallons, though to be > > honest I'm not quite sure if it's doing anything or not, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. I'm going to bounce a few ideas around here. > > > > > > When you say your ammonia "skyrocketed".. how high did it get? Give > > > us the pH, nitrite, nitrate numbers as well. > > > > > > When you say "2 1/2 months"... do you mean you haven't cleaned it in > > > that long? Changing it should not be an issue since most filter > > > media will last for years and years until it is starting to fall > > > apart before it has to be changed... but it still has to be cleaned, > > > in removed tank water, on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. I just want > > > to make sure you understand that process. > > > > > > Plants should not cause a cycle unless the plants include something > > > dead hidden in them that is decomposing. > > > > > > As far as the live plants... did you clean them and disinfect them > > > when you got home or just put them in your tank? Were the live > > > plants in a big fresh water tank at the store? I've read that many > > > plant shippers will treat their plants to try and kill off snails.. > > > usually using a copper based solution but maybe something else. > > > Also.. did the store maybe treat them with a bleach dip and not > > > rinse enough? Even a drop of bleach in your tank would be enough > > > chlorine to kill off some/all of your good nitrifying bacteria and > > > that would cause an ammonia spike and an entire mini- or full cycle. > > > > > > Are you sure you got any/all of the dead fish out? > > > > > > What brand test kit? > > > > > > Do you have a lot of algae in your tank? Did you overdose the Excel? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:19 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling tank (again? ugh) > > > > > > Okay I have not changed my filter media yet (it's only been 2 1/2 > > > months on new media). I have also not added any new fish in nearly a > > > month as well, and when I did it was only 2 loaches (who have also > > > died in the last month, I think something was picking on them). > > > Would adding live plants to a tank cause it to cycle again? I added > > > a few plants each week this last month, and that was the only other > > > live stuff I've put into my tank. Last week I got some Flourish > > > Excel to put in my tank for my plants and my ammonia skyrocketted > > > and I had to do several PWC's yesterday to get my ammonia back down > > > close to 0 where it should have been. I have not put more of the > > > flourish excel in my tank, as I wasn't sure if it would affect the > > > ammonia or not, but didn't want to chance it without asking to see > > > what you guys thought about the situation. My tank was cycled before > > > I added plants this last month, and I figured 2-3 plants a week > > > wouldn't affect it too much. I also haven't added any new plants in > > > nearly 2 weeks as well (or fish as I said). Thankfully I didn't lose > > > any fish when the ammonia went up yesterday, as I caught it right > > > away and did several PWC's over a few hours. > > > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 > Tested on: 11/19/2008 1:19:52 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33278	From: danf2346	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Algae

Hi, I have a 6 gallon hex. It contains gravel, a filter, an air pump, and silk plants. I have one single betta occupying the tank. The algae grows rapidly and is quickly covering the walls making it hard to view. I do weekly water changes of 30 percent. I was wondering if someone could tell me if there is a certain algae eater.. that would work in this size tank? Thanks, Dan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33279	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:

Hopefully you won't need this but here's a couple of sites that explain humane methods. http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14 http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm I don't recall the problem with your fish.. what are they? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] euthanize, never mind: can't do it and I read some things were people have thought their fish were done for and then they pulled through. I doubt he will but you never know. Erin B. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:09:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33280	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: starting a tank:

Depends on the size of tank but for smaller tanks 10G to 30G, I'd go with the AquaClear brand of HOB's (hang on back) also called power filters... but I've never understood why since most filters are powered. LOL For larger tanks, you should have two filter systems. A canister is good for large filter media volume but a larger AquaClear HOB or two are also a good option. Even with AC's, it's best to get the next step up in power from what the manufacturer might describe their filter for. The good thing about AC's is that you can adjust the water flow so even with an AC-20 or AC-30 on a 10G tank, you could slow down the water flow to about 20% of it's full power. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on Filter Cleaning & Maintenance for lots of info on various filters and here's a Filter Profile on the AC-20 and 30 so you can see more details. http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html More filter profiles here... http://thegab.org/Articles/filters.html I have a couple of filter profiles on my own blog also but I also participated in several of the above profiles which is why I never replicated them on my own site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: It has been quite a few years since I last had a tank. I have what I think is a 20 gallon (can't remember, which if you knew me and my memory is typical,lol) Is there some types,brands of filters that are better than others? What would anyone reccomend for this type of setup? Any advice greatly appreciated.:) thanks Erin B. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:17:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33281	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Algae

Are you vacuuming your gravel with each PWC? Do you have a Master Test kit for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.? If you don't, and I understand not having one for a single fish in a small tank but they are still really good to have for under $20.00... but back to your issue.. You may be over feeding (very common) or the food and fish waste could be getting down in the gravel and this is feeding your algae problems. If your nitrates are too high, this will also feed the algae. You should vacuum your gravel better and increase your PWC's to two 25% PWC's a week until the algae has slowed down. Also, do NOT let the tank get any natural sunlight or daylight if it's near an open window. Instead of the silk plants, get a few stalks of Anacharis (I get 12 stalks for 50 cents down here) and poke the Anacharis down into the gravel. It will help suck up some of the nitrates/phosphates that are feeding the algae and it will also help keep the water in better shape for your Betta. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of danf2346 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae Hi, I have a 6 gallon hex. It contains gravel, a filter, an air pump, and silk plants. I have one single betta occupying the tank. The algae grows rapidly and is quickly covering the walls making it hard to view. I do weekly water changes of 30 percent. I was wondering if someone could tell me if there is a certain algae eater.. that would work in this size tank? Thanks, Dan _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:23:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33282	From: caroline	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: green tank

help..... my little tank is pure green... what can I do to lessen this kelley green color.............caroline

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33283	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: green tank

See my reply to the "Algae" thread a moment ago. Same info likely applies to your issues. If not, give us more info about your tank, fish, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] green tank help..... my little tank is pure green... what can I do to lessen this kelley green color.............caroline _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:26:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33284	From: harry perry	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Algae/another option

Since you don't have live plants right now a total blackout will work. Don't let any light hit the tank for at least 3 days. Cover it up. It won't hurt your fish just the algae however if you don't treat the cause it will be back. Algae food is, fish waste, over feeding, Also too much light on for too long a time. I control the algae in my tanks with live plants. The plants use up the nutrients and starve the algae. With out live plants, frequent partial water changes is all you have to work with. Please don't add any chemicals to treat the algae. Harry --- On Wed, 11/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 5:23 PM Are you vacuuming your gravel with each PWC? Do you have a Master Test kit for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.? If you don't, and I understand not having one for a single fish in a small tank but they are still really good to have for under $20.00... but back to your issue.. You may be over feeding (very common) or the food and fish waste could be getting down in the gravel and this is feeding your algae problems. If your nitrates are too high, this will also feed the algae. You should vacuum your gravel better and increase your PWC's to two 25% PWC's a week until the algae has slowed down. Also, do NOT let the tank get any natural sunlight or daylight if it's near an open window. Instead of the silk plants, get a few stalks of Anacharis (I get 12 stalks for 50 cents down here) and poke the Anacharis down into the gravel. It will help suck up some of the nitrates/phosphates that are feeding the algae and it will also help keep the water in better shape for your Betta. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of danf2346 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae Hi, I have a 6 gallon hex. It contains gravel, a filter, an air pump, and silk plants. I have one single betta occupying the tank. The algae grows rapidly and is quickly covering the walls making it hard to view. I do weekly water changes of 30 percent. I was wondering if someone could tell me if there is a certain algae eater.. that would work in this size tank? Thanks, Dan _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:23:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33285	From: caroline	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize help:

I am so sorry... but, maybe, he could pull through.. some people put them in the freezer.. =( caroline >how do I end it gently for my betta, don't want to watch him suffer >anymore. > >Erin B. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33286	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

To be honest i'm not sure if it's US or UK gallon. But I've just decided to go with the paltties and mollies anyway. Thanks for all your help guys. Oh! And the tank is now filled with water and has began cycleing. So the count down is on.   Lisa   Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33287	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:

This treatment does NOT work with a Betta, as they breathe from the surface air, not the air in the water. I tend to do the freezer method. Reading both sites, top to bottom, this is also a barbaric method, esp if done 'wrong' as so many seemed to do. Laura Hopefully you won't need this but here's a couple of sites that explain humane methods. _http://www.aquatic-http://wwhttp://www.http://wwwhttp://w_ (http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14) _http://www.wisegeekhttp://wwwhttp://www.whttp://www.http://www.wihttp://www_ (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm) I don't recall the problem with your fish.. what are they? **************Check out smokin’ hot deals on laptops, desktops and more from Dell. Shop Deals (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33288	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: green tank

Cut down on the light, either sun or bulb. Put him in a different container, rinse the gravel and scrub his tank. Replace and (again) cut down on the light. help..... my little tank is pure green... what can I do to lessen this kelley green color.......this kelley gr **************Check out smokin’ hot deals on laptops, desktops and more from Dell. Shop Deals (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

If you measure the tank L x W x H = (in U.S. inches), then divide that total by 231, you'll get the U.S. gallon volume. There may be another simple formula for AUS gallons. Are you using the plain ammonia method to cycle the tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dwarf Gorami To be honest i'm not sure if it's US or UK gallon. But I've just decided to go with the paltties and mollies anyway. Thanks for all your help guys. Oh! And the tank is now filled with water and has began cycleing. So the count down is on. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:59:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:

Some argue that the freezer method is barbaric as it takes quite a while for the fish to freeze to death. Now, filling a glass with ice cold water and dropping the fish in that will usually numb it pretty quick but I'm sure it's not real comfortable at first... just like us jumping into a cold pool or lake. The quickest method is cutting off the head or crushing the skull with a hammer but that's considered barbaric by some also. On the few times I've decided on Euthanasia, I've done the ice cold water in a disposable plastic cup, drop in the fish, topped off with ice cubes and then freezer... out-of-sight, out-of-mind and throw the entire cup away with the next garbage run.... usually I try to give the fish every possible chance to live. The vodka/clove will work with a Betta. You just have to place a piece of plastic wrap on the surface to make it breathe through it's gills. I didn't see Betta mentioned in the first message that I got, which is why I asked what kind of fish and problem? Yahoo sent me her second message first.. typical Yahoo. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@... Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] euthanize, never mind: This treatment does NOT work with a Betta, as they breathe from the surface air, not the air in the water. I tend to do the freezer method. Reading both sites, top to bottom, this is also a barbaric method, esp if done 'wrong' as so many seemed to do. Laura Hopefully you won't need this but here's a couple of sites that explain humane methods. _http://www.aquatic-http://wwhttp://www.http://wwwhttp://w_ <http://www.aquatic-http://wwhttp://www.http://wwwhttp://w_> (http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14 <http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14> ) _http://www.wisegeekhttp://wwwhttp://www.whttp://www.http://www.wihttp://www _ <http://www.wisegeekhttp://wwwhttp://www.whttp://www.http://www.wihttp://www _> (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm <http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm > ) I don't recall the problem with your fish.. what are they? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 5:08:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33291	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

With regard to your statement about not knowing why they are called power filters: Back in the day, there were also filters that hung from the back or side of an aquarium that moved the water via air flow going through the water. This is when we mainly used bubble-up corner filters in the tank. This setup moved the filter outside the tank to provide more room inside the tank, and make hiding the filter a lot easier. Sometime after the introduction of the outside bubble type filter someone got the idea that if a motor was added to the filter one would get more flow, and, possibly, eliminate the need for the air pump as a part of filtration system. These were called power filters, and, I guess, the name stuck. I look to Ray for corrections and additions he might want to make to this history. This is what I recall. I also recall that the Supreme AquaMaster was very expensive at the time, and my parents would not buy me one no matter how I cajoled them to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: Depends on the size of tank but for smaller tanks 10G to 30G, I'd go with the AquaClear brand of HOB's (hang on back) also called power filters... but I've never understood why since most filters are powered. LOL For larger tanks, you should have two filter systems. A canister is good for large filter media volume but a larger AquaClear HOB or two are also a good option. Even with AC's, it's best to get the next step up in power from what the manufacturer might describe their filter for. The good thing about AC's is that you can adjust the water flow so even with an AC-20 or AC-30 on a 10G tank, you could slow down the water flow to about 20% of it's full power. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on Filter Cleaning & Maintenance for lots of info on various filters and here's a Filter Profile on the AC-20 and 30 so you can see more details. http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html More filter profiles here... http://thegab.org/Articles/filters.html I have a couple of filter profiles on my own blog also but I also participated in several of the above profiles which is why I never replicated them on my own site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: It has been quite a few years since I last had a tank. I have what I think is a 20 gallon (can't remember, which if you knew me and my memory is typical,lol) Is there some types,brands of filters that are better than others? What would anyone reccomend for this type of setup? Any advice greatly appreciated.:) thanks Erin B. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:17:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33292	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

Plain ammonia cycle? I have one kuhli loach in there atm --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If you measure the tank L x W x H = (in U.S. inches), then divide that total > by 231, you'll get the U.S. gallon volume. There may be another simple > formula for AUS gallons. > > Are you using the plain ammonia method to cycle the tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dwarf Gorami > > To be honest i'm not sure if it's US or UK gallon. But I've just decided to > go with the paltties and mollies anyway. > Thanks for all your help guys. > Oh! And the tank is now filled with water and has began cycleing. > So the count down is on. > > Lisa > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 > Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:59:50 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33293	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: green tank

Is the tank green, or is the water in the tank green? When you ask a question, the more information you can provide, the quicker and more accurate your answers will be. In your case, give us a more detailed description--water green/tank walls green? What is the tank size? What are your water parameters, temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? Give us actual numbers and not a verbal description--OK does not cut it here. What are your baseline readings (water out of the tap after 24 hours)? How often and how much do you change your water? What kind of filtration are you using? What critters are you keeping, and their size. Do you treat your water? With what and why? Any live plants? What are you feeding and how much do you feed? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] green tank help..... my little tank is pure green... what can I do to lessen this kelley green color.............caroline

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33294	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Yeah.. but even the air "powered" filters were "powered".. which is the point I was making about why they called them "power filters". I guess if they would have called them "motorized", I'd say that even the air powered filters had motors in them. I might have to Google for one of the original patents to see what they called them in their patent applications. I even used the phrase "most filters are powered" but I guess they all have to have some power to them except for the actual nitrifying bacteria which are little mini-biofilters and are not powered. Well, I haven't found the patent for the HOB's yet but I did come across this new "modular filter system" designed by Glen Axelrod who got a patent in February of this year and T.F.H. Publications seems involved as well since they are listed as assignee. This seems like an interesting concept.. so look for the "MFS" acronym in the coming years. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7335298/description.html BTW... wouldn't you expect the "Supreme AquaMaster" to be expensive? After all, it was the Supreme AquaMaster... not just a plain old regular aquamaster. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) With regard to your statement about not knowing why they are called power filters: Back in the day, there were also filters that hung from the back or side of an aquarium that moved the water via air flow going through the water. This is when we mainly used bubble-up corner filters in the tank. This setup moved the filter outside the tank to provide more room inside the tank, and make hiding the filter a lot easier. Sometime after the introduction of the outside bubble type filter someone got the idea that if a motor was added to the filter one would get more flow, and, possibly, eliminate the need for the air pump as a part of filtration system. These were called power filters, and, I guess, the name stuck. I look to Ray for corrections and additions he might want to make to this history. This is what I recall. I also recall that the Supreme AquaMaster was very expensive at the time, and my parents would not buy me one no matter how I cajoled them to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: Depends on the size of tank but for smaller tanks 10G to 30G, I'd go with the AquaClear brand of HOB's (hang on back) also called power filters... but I've never understood why since most filters are powered. LOL For larger tanks, you should have two filter systems. A canister is good for large filter media volume but a larger AquaClear HOB or two are also a good option. Even with AC's, it's best to get the next step up in power from what the manufacturer might describe their filter for. The good thing about AC's is that you can adjust the water flow so even with an AC-20 or AC-30 on a 10G tank, you could slow down the water flow to about 20% of it's full power. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on Filter Cleaning & Maintenance for lots of info on various filters and here's a Filter Profile on the AC-20 and 30 so you can see more details. http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> More filter profiles here... http://thegab.org/Articles/filters.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/filters.html> I have a couple of filter profiles on my own blog also but I also participated in several of the above profiles which is why I never replicated them on my own site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: It has been quite a few years since I last had a tank. I have what I think is a 20 gallon (can't remember, which if you knew me and my memory is typical,lol) Is there some types,brands of filters that are better than others? What would anyone reccomend for this type of setup? Any advice greatly appreciated.:) thanks Erin B. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 6:32:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33295	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

OK. You are cycling with fish. Did you move your filter system onto the new tank while you are cycling with the fish so you don't have to start from scratch with ammonia/nitrite issues? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dwarf Gorami Plain ammonia cycle? I have one kuhli loach in there atm --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If you measure the tank L x W x H = (in U.S. inches), then divide that total > by 231, you'll get the U.S. gallon volume. There may be another simple > formula for AUS gallons. > > Are you using the plain ammonia method to cycle the tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dwarf Gorami > > To be honest i'm not sure if it's US or UK gallon. But I've just decided to > go with the paltties and mollies anyway. > Thanks for all your help guys. > Oh! And the tank is now filled with water and has began cycleing. > So the count down is on. > > Lisa > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 6:35:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33296	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Ah yes, this reminds me of when I was kid and the ultimate (aquarists') status symbol was the big, honkin' piston air pump with its length of tubing and series of brass valves which ran to multiples of tanks.  I, of course, had the noisy little vibrator pump which also had the disadvantage of waltzing itself all over whatever surface it was on.  My parents, alas,  did not appreciate the necessity for power... Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:42:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) With regard to your statement about not knowing why they are called power filters: Back in the day, there were also filters that hung from the back or side of an aquarium that moved the water via air flow going through the water. This is when we mainly used bubble-up corner filters in the tank. This setup moved the filter outside the tank to provide more room inside the tank, and make hiding the filter a lot easier. Sometime after the introduction of the outside bubble type filter someone got the idea that if a motor was added to the filter one would get more flow, and, possibly, eliminate the need for the air pump as a part of filtration system. These were called power filters, and, I guess, the name stuck. I look to Ray for corrections and additions he might want to make to this history. This is what I recall. I also recall that the Supreme AquaMaster was very expensive at the time, and my parents would not buy me one no matter how I cajoled them to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: Depends on the size of tank but for smaller tanks 10G to 30G, I'd go with the AquaClear brand of HOB's (hang on back) also called power filters... but I've never understood why since most filters are powered. LOL  For larger tanks, you should have two filter systems.  A canister is good for large filter media volume but a larger AquaClear HOB or two are also a good option. Even with AC's, it's best to get the next step up in power from what the manufacturer might describe their filter for.  The good thing about AC's is that you can adjust the water flow so even with an AC-20 or AC-30 on a 10G tank, you could slow down the water flow to about 20% of it's full power. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on Filter Cleaning & Maintenance for lots of info on various filters and here's a Filter Profile on the AC-20 and 30 so you can see more details. http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html More filter profiles here... http://thegab.org/Articles/filters.html I have a couple of filter profiles on my own blog also but I also participated in several of the above profiles which is why I never replicated them on my own site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: It has been quite a few years since I last had a tank. I have what I think is a 20 gallon (can't remember, which if you knew me and my memory is typical,lol) Is there some types,brands of filters that are better than others? What would anyone reccomend for this type of setup? Any advice greatly appreciated.:) thanks Erin B.   _____   avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:17:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33297	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

In a message dated 11/19/2008 6:36:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, Dreamsteeds@... writes: Ah yes, this reminds me of when I was kid and the ultimate (aquarists') status symbol was the big, honkin' piston air pump with its length of tubing and series of brass valves which ran to multiples of tanks. I, of course, had the noisy little vibrator pump which also had the disadvantage of waltzing itself all over whatever surface it was on. My parents, alas, did not appreciate the necessity for power... Jackie Good God Jackie, the memories! I remember lusting after a piston pump, alas, a 10 year old can only dream, as my parents said NO! I had a little aerator pump, that too, ran all over the place and my parents insisted it be turned off at night. Good thing back then all I had was a blue gouramie (known as three-spot gouramie) and a marble female mollie. Enid **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33298	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

The ones my mom and grandma had were what they called gravity feed filters. I only remember a tube going from the tank to a box in the back and it seems like there was a tube return. I sure wish I could remember. Laura In a message dated 11/19/2008 6:33:24 PM Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Yeah.. but even the air "powered" filters were "powered".. which is the point I was making about why they called them "power filters". I guess if they would have called them "motorized", I'd say that even the air powered filters had motors in them. **************Check out smokin’ hot deals on laptops, desktops and more from Dell. Shop Deals (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33299	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: p.s.:

thanks to everyone else who answered my questions and offered info as well :) Erin B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33300	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: thanks lenny:

thanks for the info. on getting my aquarium going and about my betta which is the fish that is dying on me. Erin B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33301	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

Yes I did. All new everything. Filter, heater, substrate, and most of the silk and plastic plants are new. But the decorations are irrelivent at this point. The filter, tank and heater are new. Should i put my zebra danios in to help with the cycle? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. You are cycling with fish. Did you move your filter system onto the > new tank while you are cycling with the fish so you don't have to start from > scratch with ammonia/nitrite issues? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33302	From: mike	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES

thanks, lenny! So you don't think shrimp can host ick? I hope starfish don't either. So I see 2 choices: 1) Move invertibrates to quarentine tank and treat the main with heat & hyposalinity for 4 weeks( afraid to use chemicals that trace amounts could remain and kill shrimp) or 2) Move all fish except invertibrates to quarentine tank and treat quarentine tank with chemicals. The main tanks ick should die out with no hosts(just invertibrates) in 4 weeks. That sparks another icky question: Some say ick is in all water and healthy fish are ok with it until streased. Others say it is brought in and needs a host in a day and multiplies 2000 fold! ???? mike --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Sorry.. I'm not sure if anyone messages you off-list but I just noticed that > nobody answered in the group. It's possibly because you referenced > "saltwater ick..." and we have a lot more freshwater fish keepers here than > saltwater fish keepers... or maybe the saltwater keepers saw you were > talking about freshwater inverts.. anyhow.. > > I don't think the Ich that affects fish will find a host in shrimp... at > least nothing I've read indicates that it can. > > So.. remove your fish or shrimp to a quarantine tank and treat the tank with > the salt/heat treatment method or your Ich treatment of choice.. then after > several weeks and everyone is cured, you can re-acclimate them together > again. > > If you want more articles/details, let me know and I'll find some but I have > Cherry Shrimp and have read lots of info on various shrimp forums and have > never seen where shrimp can host the Ich parasite. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES > > I got ick from petco and i only have 3 little guys left. I lost my shrimp > within a day. My question is that I researched for days and haven't seen a > cure for invertebrates. I don't have anymore invertebrates now, but I don't > want to add a chemical that will kill future ones. I am raising the temp and > doing hydrosalinity, but if I had invertibrates that would kill them too! If > I moved invertibrates to another tank to treat the main, they would only > bring it back. Any info on this because I haven't seen a one? Thanks > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 > Tested on: 11/19/2008 3:47:14 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33303	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Supreme was a brand name used by the Danner Mfg. Co. who manufactured the filter, among other things such as the Supreme HeetMaster heaters and they DynaMaster air pumps. Danner made top notch products. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) Yeah.. but even the air "powered" filters were "powered".. which is the point I was making about why they called them "power filters". I guess if they would have called them "motorized", I'd say that even the air powered filters had motors in them. I might have to Google for one of the original patents to see what they called them in their patent applications. I even used the phrase "most filters are powered" but I guess they all have to have some power to them except for the actual nitrifying bacteria which are little mini-biofilters and are not powered. Well, I haven't found the patent for the HOB's yet but I did come across this new "modular filter system" designed by Glen Axelrod who got a patent in February of this year and T.F.H. Publications seems involved as well since they are listed as assignee. This seems like an interesting concept.. so look for the "MFS" acronym in the coming years. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7335298/description.html BTW... wouldn't you expect the "Supreme AquaMaster" to be expensive? After all, it was the Supreme AquaMaster... not just a plain old regular aquamaster. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) With regard to your statement about not knowing why they are called power filters: Back in the day, there were also filters that hung from the back or side of an aquarium that moved the water via air flow going through the water. This is when we mainly used bubble-up corner filters in the tank. This setup moved the filter outside the tank to provide more room inside the tank, and make hiding the filter a lot easier. Sometime after the introduction of the outside bubble type filter someone got the idea that if a motor was added to the filter one would get more flow, and, possibly, eliminate the need for the air pump as a part of filtration system. These were called power filters, and, I guess, the name stuck. I look to Ray for corrections and additions he might want to make to this history. This is what I recall. I also recall that the Supreme AquaMaster was very expensive at the time, and my parents would not buy me one no matter how I cajoled them to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: Depends on the size of tank but for smaller tanks 10G to 30G, I'd go with the AquaClear brand of HOB's (hang on back) also called power filters... but I've never understood why since most filters are powered. LOL For larger tanks, you should have two filter systems. A canister is good for large filter media volume but a larger AquaClear HOB or two are also a good option. Even with AC's, it's best to get the next step up in power from what the manufacturer might describe their filter for. The good thing about AC's is that you can adjust the water flow so even with an AC-20 or AC-30 on a 10G tank, you could slow down the water flow to about 20% of it's full power. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on Filter Cleaning & Maintenance for lots of info on various filters and here's a Filter Profile on the AC-20 and 30 so you can see more details. http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> More filter profiles here... http://thegab.org/Articles/filters.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/filters.html> I have a couple of filter profiles on my own blog also but I also participated in several of the above profiles which is why I never replicated them on my own site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: It has been quite a few years since I last had a tank. I have what I think is a 20 gallon (can't remember, which if you knew me and my memory is typical,lol) Is there some types,brands of filters that are better than others? What would anyone reccomend for this type of setup? Any advice greatly appreciated.:) thanks Erin B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33304	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Were you dreaming of the one cylinder DynaMaster, or the two cylinder model? I had a 2 cylinder running 38 tanks in my fishroom before unfortunate events prevented me from keeping so many tanks. I still have the pump, and parts are still available for it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) Ah yes, this reminds me of when I was kid and the ultimate (aquarists') status symbol was the big, honkin' piston air pump with its length of tubing and series of brass valves which ran to multiples of tanks.  I, of course, had the noisy little vibrator pump which also had the disadvantage of waltzing itself all over whatever surface it was on.  My parents, alas,  did not appreciate the necessity for power... Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:42:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) With regard to your statement about not knowing why they are called power filters: Back in the day, there were also filters that hung from the back or side of an aquarium that moved the water via air flow going through the water. This is when we mainly used bubble-up corner filters in the tank. This setup moved the filter outside the tank to provide more room inside the tank, and make hiding the filter a lot easier. Sometime after the introduction of the outside bubble type filter someone got the idea that if a motor was added to the filter one would get more flow, and, possibly, eliminate the need for the air pump as a part of filtration system. These were called power filters, and, I guess, the name stuck. I look to Ray for corrections and additions he might want to make to this history. This is what I recall. I also recall that the Supreme AquaMaster was very expensive at the time, and my parents would not buy me one no matter how I cajoled them to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: Depends on the size of tank but for smaller tanks 10G to 30G, I'd go with the AquaClear brand of HOB's (hang on back) also called power filters... but I've never understood why since most filters are powered. LOL  For larger tanks, you should have two filter systems.  A canister is good for large filter media volume but a larger AquaClear HOB or two are also a good option. Even with AC's, it's best to get the next step up in power from what the manufacturer might describe their filter for.  The good thing about AC's is that you can adjust the water flow so even with an AC-20 or AC-30 on a 10G tank, you could slow down the water flow to about 20% of it's full power. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on Filter Cleaning & Maintenance for lots of info on various filters and here's a Filter Profile on the AC-20 and 30 so you can see more details. http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html More filter profiles here... http://thegab.org/Articles/filters.html I have a couple of filter profiles on my own blog also but I also participated in several of the above profiles which is why I never replicated them on my own site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: It has been quite a few years since I last had a tank. I have what I think is a 20 gallon (can't remember, which if you knew me and my memory is typical,lol) Is there some types,brands of filters that are better than others? What would anyone reccomend for this type of setup? Any advice greatly appreciated.:) thanks Erin B.   _____   avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:17:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

No... you should have fishless cycled the tank first.. or cloned your existing tank into the new tank using the existing filter, gravel, etc. Are the ZD's in a tank that is fully cycled? Are you planning on keeping all of the fish in the new bigger tank or keeping them separate? If you haven't done so, please go to my blog on the A to Z page and take one or both of the free tutorials on the basics of fishkeeping... paying particular attention to the nitrogen cycle. This should be at least basically understood by anyone who wants to keep fish. It's the leading cause of fish health issues and death when folks try to keep fish without having a basic understanding of the nitrogen cycle and how it affects the ecology of your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dwarf Gorami Yes I did. All new everything. Filter, heater, substrate, and most of the silk and plastic plants are new. But the decorations are irrelivent at this point. The filter, tank and heater are new. Should i put my zebra danios in to help with the cycle? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. You are cycling with fish. Did you move your filter system onto the > new tank while you are cycling with the fish so you don't have to start from > scratch with ammonia/nitrite issues? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 7:38:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES

OK.. now wait. Do you have a saltwater tank or freshwater tank? What kinds of shrimp are you talking about? Now that you mention a starfish, maybe I was wrong and you actually have a saltwater tank. If you do, then disregard every thing I said earlier as I have nearly zero experience with SW tanks and haven't even read much on them. You mentioned that you got your fish from Petco and my understanding is that they do not sell SW fish so it was misleading if you actually have SW fish. Please try to post more details when posting in the future. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES thanks, lenny! So you don't think shrimp can host ick? I hope starfish don't either. So I see 2 choices: 1) Move invertibrates to quarentine tank and treat the main with heat & hyposalinity for 4 weeks( afraid to use chemicals that trace amounts could remain and kill shrimp) or 2) Move all fish except invertibrates to quarentine tank and treat quarentine tank with chemicals. The main tanks ick should die out with no hosts(just invertibrates) in 4 weeks. That sparks another icky question: Some say ick is in all water and healthy fish are ok with it until streased. Others say it is brought in and needs a host in a day and multiplies 2000 fold! ???? mike --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Sorry.. I'm not sure if anyone messages you off-list but I just noticed that > nobody answered in the group. It's possibly because you referenced > "saltwater ick..." and we have a lot more freshwater fish keepers here than > saltwater fish keepers... or maybe the saltwater keepers saw you were > talking about freshwater inverts.. anyhow.. > > I don't think the Ich that affects fish will find a host in shrimp... at > least nothing I've read indicates that it can. > > So.. remove your fish or shrimp to a quarantine tank and treat the tank with > the salt/heat treatment method or your Ich treatment of choice.. then after > several weeks and everyone is cured, you can re-acclimate them together > again. > > If you want more articles/details, let me know and I'll find some but I have > Cherry Shrimp and have read lots of info on various shrimp forums and have > never seen where shrimp can host the Ich parasite. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES > > I got ick from petco and i only have 3 little guys left. I lost my shrimp > within a day. My question is that I researched for days and haven't seen a > cure for invertebrates. I don't have anymore invertebrates now, but I don't > want to add a chemical that will kill future ones. I am raising the temp and > doing hydrosalinity, but if I had invertibrates that would kill them too! If > I moved invertibrates to another tank to treat the main, they would only > bring it back. Any info on this because I haven't seen a one? Thanks > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 7:43:25 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33307	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: starting a tank:

Hi Erin. I have just started to set up a 22gal freshwater. (Only started cycleing yesterday). And because of space i was given a under gravel filter. And i guess for short term they're ok. But a lost of people on here will probably tell you they're rapidly declining in terms of efficiency and popularity. Even though i'm very much a beginner in large aquarium keeping, i'd suggest going for the best 'hob' you can reasonably afford.  As far as brands go, ask Lenny.   Lisa   Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33308	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank

Aside from using a gravel-vac on a weekly basis for poop cleaning, how does one keep under-gravel filters clean? or is that pretty much impossible in an established tank?   Lisa   Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33309	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank

Spend a lot of time deep vacuuming the gravel, pressing the siphon tube down to the UGF plates and sucking up as much detritus/mulm out from under the UGF plates. Others will also take a 1/4" airline tube and snake it down through the uplift tube and shove it under the UGF plates and siphon under them. I would probably take one of my smaller wet-vacs and use it. LOL I wouldn't be able to do much though as it would empty the tank pretty quick... I guess I'd start with the area furthest from the uplift tubes since those areas would be most likely to have the most detritus building up under the UGF plates. If you have access to a canister filter system, you could use the suction tube on that to siphon the UGF plate after moving the gravel to the side so you are sure to get the suction tube right down to the top of the UGF plate with no obstructions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank Aside from using a gravel-vac on a weekly basis for poop cleaning, how does one keep under-gravel filters clean? or is that pretty much impossible in an established tank? Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 7:53:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33310	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Magnum 350

Okay I officially do not like the old style magnum 350 power filters (before they made them HOB), when I remove the lid to the filter to clean the media it suctions to the top of the media container and pulls it off too, so I end up with carbon all over inside the canister, which I then have to empty out and rinse out the carbon particles. Not to mention it doesn't go back together smoothly for me (perhaps I am just one of those people who needs really easy maintenance on my filters), so I ended up making a huge water mess. My aquariums should be in a room with no carpet, let's put it that way. Almost every water change I spill water, on top of cleaning the filter I made a huge mess, ugh. If I had an extra hundred dollars lying around I would replace this power filter with something a little more user friendly ;). It's now about 10 years old and still runs great, it's just not as nice as some of the newer HOB types. My tank is still cloudy after cleaning the filter and doing about a 40% water change, hoping the fish are okay with it. I also found another dead fish, then did a "head check" and it appears I have found all the dead fish (unless I lose any more overnight, which seems to happen to me). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33311	From: mike	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES

ok i'm sorry. Thats why the title says "saltwater"ick. I have saltwater. In my neighborhood Petco sells saltwater and Petsmart doesn't. So I always value your opinion but you say you are not into salt that much. I have seen many sites that say that a Diatom Filter will easily clean up ick. Or UV as well. Any thoughts? This seems like a bi-saltius problem ( i made that up) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK.. now wait. Do you have a saltwater tank or freshwater tank? > > What kinds of shrimp are you talking about? > > Now that you mention a starfish, maybe I was wrong and you actually have a > saltwater tank. > > If you do, then disregard every thing I said earlier as I have nearly zero > experience with SW tanks and haven't even read much on them. > > You mentioned that you got your fish from Petco and my understanding is that > they do not sell SW fish so it was misleading if you actually have SW fish. > Please try to post more details when posting in the future. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES > > thanks, lenny! So you don't think shrimp can host ick? I hope starfish don't > either. So I see 2 choices: > 1) Move invertibrates to quarentine tank and treat the main with heat & > hyposalinity for 4 weeks( afraid to use chemicals that trace amounts could > remain and kill shrimp) or > 2) Move all fish except invertibrates to quarentine tank and treat > quarentine tank with chemicals. The main tanks ick should die out with no > hosts(just invertibrates) in 4 weeks. > > That sparks another icky question: Some say ick is in all water and healthy > fish are ok with it until streased. Others say it is brought in and needs a > host in a day and multiplies 2000 fold! ???? mike > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Sorry.. I'm not sure if anyone messages you off-list but I just > noticed that > > nobody answered in the group. It's possibly because you referenced > > "saltwater ick..." and we have a lot more freshwater fish keepers > here than > > saltwater fish keepers... or maybe the saltwater keepers saw you > were > > talking about freshwater inverts.. anyhow.. > > > > I don't think the Ich that affects fish will find a host in > shrimp... at > > least nothing I've read indicates that it can. > > > > So.. remove your fish or shrimp to a quarantine tank and treat the > tank with > > the salt/heat treatment method or your Ich treatment of choice.. > then after > > several weeks and everyone is cured, you can re-acclimate them > together > > again. > > > > If you want more articles/details, let me know and I'll find some > but I have > > Cherry Shrimp and have read lots of info on various shrimp forums > and have > > never seen where shrimp can host the Ich parasite. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of mike > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES > > > > I got ick from petco and i only have 3 little guys left. I lost my > shrimp > > within a day. My question is that I researched for days and haven't > seen a > > cure for invertebrates. I don't have anymore invertebrates now, but > I don't > > want to add a chemical that will kill future ones. I am raising the > temp and > > doing hydrosalinity, but if I had invertibrates that would kill > them too! If > > I moved invertibrates to another tank to treat the main, they would > only > > bring it back. Any info on this because I haven't seen a one? Thanks > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 > Tested on: 11/19/2008 7:43:25 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33312	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

Yes. The ZD are in a cycled tank, and i intend to move them (eventually) into the 22gal tank. I was just curious. But I can be patient enough for another 4 weeks before they go im. It's really not that long to have to wait. Thankyou SO SO much for your help. I don't know where i'd be without you all. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33313	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank

So you recon going fron the center of the tank and slowly and deeply moving out to the edges. I'm sorry guys.. i'm just having a blonde day! lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

You should either move the filter system and ZD's over to the new tank or at least move the filter media from the filter system and put it into the filter system of your new tank and also move the ZD's. You may still have a mini-cycle but it would be much better than cycling with fish for the new dwarf gourami. Remember that the overwhelming majority of the good nitrifying bacteria will be living in the filter media (sponge, floss pads, etc.). Since you are planning on moving all the fish to the bigger tank, you might as well do it now and as long as you move the filter media or the entire filter system to the new tank, you should not have much of a mini-cycle.. maybe a day or a few days at most and then not nearly as high of ammonia levels since you will have the "cycled" filter system or media in/on the new tank. If it was me, and presuming you are planning on more fish... I would have left all the current fish (Dwarf Gourami and ZD's) in their existing tank that was up and running and cycled and then fishless cycled the new tank (using some of the filter media to seed the fishless cycle) so your new tank would be fully cycled in as little as 10 days without subjecting any fish to the arduous process... or you either. Then you could get your new fish, move them into the new tank (after it's cycled), let them quarantine in the new tank for a few weeks and after you are sure they are healthy, then you could move the Gourami and ZD's and their filter to the new tank and you would not have any cycling issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dwarf Gorami Yes. The ZD are in a cycled tank, and i intend to move them (eventually) into the 22gal tank. I was just curious. But I can be patient enough for another 4 weeks before they go im. It's really not that long to have to wait. Thankyou SO SO much for your help. I don't know where i'd be without you all. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 8:07:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33315	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: (SALTWATER TANK) saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES

OK. Well considering the lack of punctuation on the internet, I wasn't sure if you were saying "Saltwater, Ick with Inverts.." since salt is used as a treatment for FW Ick and salt is kind of tough on FW inverts. My first glance at your initial post made me think you were talking about a saltwater tank but when nobody replied, I thought maybe I misread your first post or it did not contain that elusive "comma" so I thought I'd reply about the FW Ick. SW Ick is a completely different species than FW so I do not know about the life-cycle of SW Ick or any treatment methods. I changed the Subject line to try and raise the interest with any of our SW tank owners/members. Sorry. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES ok i'm sorry. Thats why the title says "saltwater"ick. I have saltwater. In my neighborhood Petco sells saltwater and Petsmart doesn't. So I always value your opinion but you say you are not into salt that much. I have seen many sites that say that a Diatom Filter will easily clean up ick. Or UV as well. Any thoughts? This seems like a bi-saltius problem ( i made that up) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK.. now wait. Do you have a saltwater tank or freshwater tank? > > What kinds of shrimp are you talking about? > > Now that you mention a starfish, maybe I was wrong and you actually have a > saltwater tank. > > If you do, then disregard every thing I said earlier as I have nearly zero > experience with SW tanks and haven't even read much on them. > > You mentioned that you got your fish from Petco and my understanding is that > they do not sell SW fish so it was misleading if you actually have SW fish. > Please try to post more details when posting in the future. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of mike > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES > > thanks, lenny! So you don't think shrimp can host ick? I hope starfish don't > either. So I see 2 choices: > 1) Move invertibrates to quarentine tank and treat the main with heat & > hyposalinity for 4 weeks( afraid to use chemicals that trace amounts could > remain and kill shrimp) or > 2) Move all fish except invertibrates to quarentine tank and treat > quarentine tank with chemicals. The main tanks ick should die out with no > hosts(just invertibrates) in 4 weeks. > > That sparks another icky question: Some say ick is in all water and healthy > fish are ok with it until streased. Others say it is brought in and needs a > host in a day and multiplies 2000 fold! ???? mike > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Sorry.. I'm not sure if anyone messages you off-list but I just > noticed that > > nobody answered in the group. It's possibly because you referenced > > "saltwater ick..." and we have a lot more freshwater fish keepers > here than > > saltwater fish keepers... or maybe the saltwater keepers saw you > were > > talking about freshwater inverts.. anyhow.. > > > > I don't think the Ich that affects fish will find a host in > shrimp... at > > least nothing I've read indicates that it can. > > > > So.. remove your fish or shrimp to a quarantine tank and treat the > tank with > > the salt/heat treatment method or your Ich treatment of choice.. > then after > > several weeks and everyone is cured, you can re-acclimate them > together > > again. > > > > If you want more articles/details, let me know and I'll find some > but I have > > Cherry Shrimp and have read lots of info on various shrimp forums > and have > > never seen where shrimp can host the Ich parasite. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of mike > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] saltwater ick with INVERTEBRATES > > > > I got ick from petco and i only have 3 little guys left. I lost my > shrimp > > within a day. My question is that I researched for days and haven't > seen a > > cure for invertebrates. I don't have anymore invertebrates now, but > I don't > > want to add a chemical that will kill future ones. I am raising the > temp and > > doing hydrosalinity, but if I had invertibrates that would kill > them too! If > > I moved invertibrates to another tank to treat the main, they would > only > > bring it back. Any info on this because I haven't seen a one? Thanks > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 8:13:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33316	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

The manufacturer is on the tip of my tongue but I can't remember...it's frustrating because I worked in the neighborhood pet shop all three years of high school.  The undergravel filter was the new, hot thing at that time, and touted to be ideal for growing plants.  How things change... Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:37:54 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) Were you dreaming of the one cylinder DynaMaster, or the two cylinder model? I had a 2 cylinder running 38 tanks in my fishroom before unfortunate events prevented me from keeping so many tanks. I still have the pump, and parts are still available for it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) Ah yes, this reminds me of when I was kid and the ultimate (aquarists') status symbol was the big, honkin' piston air pump with its length of tubing and series of brass valves which ran to multiples of tanks.  I, of course, had the noisy little vibrator pump which also had the disadvantage of waltzing itself all over whatever surface it was on.  My parents, alas,  did not appreciate the necessity for power... Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" < steve@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:42:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) With regard to your statement about not knowing why they are called power filters: Back in the day, there were also filters that hung from the back or side of an aquarium that moved the water via air flow going through the water. This is when we mainly used bubble-up corner filters in the tank. This setup moved the filter outside the tank to provide more room inside the tank, and make hiding the filter a lot easier. Sometime after the introduction of the outside bubble type filter someone got the idea that if a motor was added to the filter one would get more flow, and, possibly, eliminate the need for the air pump as a part of filtration system. These were called power filters, and, I guess, the name stuck. I look to Ray for corrections and additions he might want to make to this history. This is what I recall. I also recall that the Supreme AquaMaster was very expensive at the time, and my parents would not buy me one no matter how I cajoled them to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: Depends on the size of tank but for smaller tanks 10G to 30G, I'd go with the AquaClear brand of HOB's (hang on back) also called power filters... but I've never understood why since most filters are powered. LOL  For larger tanks, you should have two filter systems.  A canister is good for large filter media volume but a larger AquaClear HOB or two are also a good option. Even with AC's, it's best to get the next step up in power from what the manufacturer might describe their filter for.  The good thing about AC's is that you can adjust the water flow so even with an AC-20 or AC-30 on a 10G tank, you could slow down the water flow to about 20% of it's full power. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on Filter Cleaning & Maintenance for lots of info on various filters and here's a Filter Profile on the AC-20 and 30 so you can see more details. http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html More filter profiles here... http://thegab.org/Articles/filters.html I have a couple of filter profiles on my own blog also but I also participated in several of the above profiles which is why I never replicated them on my own site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: It has been quite a few years since I last had a tank. I have what I think is a 20 gallon (can't remember, which if you knew me and my memory is typical,lol) Is there some types,brands of filters that are better than others? What would anyone reccomend for this type of setup? Any advice greatly appreciated.:) thanks Erin B.   _____   avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:17:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33317	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Update

Hey Guys and Ladies, If you remember me (Sam) I had the Angelfish and Discus question, well there are a few changes. First, instead of the 150 gallon tank that i was going to buy i've come across a 75 gallon for free. (My Dads old tank) And instead of angelfish or dicus i've decided to keep only the fish I have. Making the chocolate gouramis the main attraction along with either curviceps or rams. I also have harlequin rasboras that I'm throwing in the mix. Here is the problem I have two of the most evil fish that I've ever owned, Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlids, they've cleaned my shrimp population out with the exeption of two amano shrimp, I thought these guys were peaceful, the chase my betta and snap at my dwarf frogs the are pure evil. Now here is the situation they chase the betta who chases the chocolate gouramis who chase the agassizis around. I've never seen this before in 20 years in the hobby. Well thanks for reading my complaints Sam

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33318	From: bill1433	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph

Can somebody tell me if you were putting this filter behind a tank how much room would you allow from the tanks back to a wall directly behind it? I can't find proper dimensions on the Internet for this product, they give conflicting information.  I need to hear from someone who is running one right now.    Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33319	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank

You need to get some tubing under the filter to suck out the mulm that collects there. It is pretty tough to do, almost impossible to do effectively, but you only really need to do it a couple or three times a year. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank Aside from using a gravel-vac on a weekly basis for poop cleaning, how does one keep under-gravel filters clean? or is that pretty much impossible in an established tank?   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33320	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200

I happen to have a brand spanking new AC-50, still in the box, that I'm looking at right now. They haven't used the Model 200 for a while now... is this a used one? The AC-50 still filters up to 200 gph but they've changed the numbering to kind of reflect the tank size they recommend but remember to always upsize since most manufacturers over-rate their filter systems capabilities. Anyhow.. back to your question... It is 7 1/4" long (along the back of the tank). It is 4" from front to back, on the top, but that is the entire front to back measurement. If it sits completely down onto the top frame of the tank the rear clearance could be as little as 2 1/2" from the back of the top frame. I'd leave at least 3" since there are also small adjusters on the bottom of the reservoir to push the bottom out from the glass a little to make sure the water flows forward into the tank and not out the back of the top of the reservoir. Most HOB's have these little adjusters. It has a 1" lip clearance for the top frame. So this model may not be suitable for some acrylic tanks since acrylic tanks often have wider lips on the top frame to provide support to keep the acrylic from bowing since acrylic is much thinner than glass for similar sized tanks and acrylic is more flexible. For my 65G, I took my jigsaw and notched out a 1/2" section for the suction tube to fit through. For this AC-50 model, I'd have to make that notch at least 1" since I have a 1 1/2" wide lip on my 65G acrylic tank. I did this notch near the end of the back of the tank. I would be worried about making a notch in the support in the middle of the back of the tank. This thread found with Google also has the same info. http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=174956 <http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=174956&mode=linearplus> &mode=linearplus but it only mentions the 4" front to back but not the 2 1/2" clearance in the back.. or rather 3" to give you wiggle room. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Can somebody tell me if you were putting this filter behind a tank how much room would you allow from the tanks back to a wall directly behind it? I can't find proper dimensions on the Internet for this product, they give conflicting information. I need to hear from someone who is running one right now. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 8:46:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33321	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

Ah, you appear to have miss read some of my earlier posts then. I don't have any goramis. That was only an idea for what species i could potentially have in the future... I only have (In a 12 inch tank) 2 Zebra danios, 2 white clouds, and 5 madakas. There is not an existing filter medum, this is my first tank big enough for a filter and heater, And i have an U/G filter. Not a canister or hob. So there is no filter medium. (sponge, wool etc...) I say again. This is my first 'serious' aquarium. There is NO existing filter or filter medium which i can transfer. I Only filled the tank with water yesterday (Wednesday) and i have 1 kuhli loach in there. That is all Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33322	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: While we're on the topic of filters... Was - starting a new tank

Okay. Thanks Steve. When i move house, i will buy a hob and replace that with the current U/G filter My LFS will also 'fish sit' during that time till it is up again Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33323	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

Or maybe it was the subject line "Re: Dwarf Gorami". I remember now that you have a Kuhli Loach in there. Was the Kuhli originally in with the ZD's, etc. or is this a new fish? In either case, it would still be best to move your entire filter media (if you don't have any kinds of filter floss, carbon, etc., then it's all in the gravel.. that would be your current filter media) and fish from the small tank to the big tank so it will at least be mostly cycled instead of putting the Kuhli (and you) through another complete 4-6 week cycle. After you move the fish and any other filter media (other than the gravel) and any decorations (even if only temporarily) to the new tank, then put the old gravel in 3-4 stockings and put them in the new tank also. Add a small bag of gravel to your new filter reservoir if it has one but since you mention it's a UGF it probably doesn't. After several weeks, and making sure the tank is fully cycled, you could remove one stocking a week as the new tank gravel and filter grows the proper nitrifying bacteria colonies and other bacteria needed. I would also hang at least one of the bags of old gravel where the powerhead or whatever is powering your UGF filter is shooting the water through that bag which will help keep the tank from having much of a cycle issue. After several weeks and you've removed all the other bags of gravel laying on the bottom, then move this bag to the bottom near the uplift tube and leave it for another week or two. By this time your own new gravel should have sufficient colonies of nitrifying bacteria on them and you should not have had much of a cycling issue with ammonia and nitrite but you would still need to test daily or every other day until you are sure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dwarf Gorami Ah, you appear to have miss read some of my earlier posts then. I don't have any goramis. That was only an idea for what species i could potentially have in the future... I only have (In a 12 inch tank) 2 Zebra danios, 2 white clouds, and 5 madakas. There is not an existing filter medum, this is my first tank big enough for a filter and heater, And i have an U/G filter. Not a canister or hob. So there is no filter medium. (sponge, wool etc...) I say again. This is my first 'serious' aquarium. There is NO existing filter or filter medium which i can transfer. I Only filled the tank with water yesterday (Wednesday) and i have 1 kuhli loach in there. That is all Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 8:59:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33324	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Update

Agassiz's dwarf cichlids are cichlids, as their common name implies, and they seem to be acting like cichlids. If you have a true pair, they may simply be staking out a breeding territory, or their current home is too small for them, and the fish are coming into their territory, which they are defending. As for the shrimp, they were probably pretty grateful for giving them some live food--finally! Rams are peaceful, for cichlids. I do not think you are seeing anything unusual. It may be simply that they do not have a good space that they can call home, places where they can dash off and hide when they feel threatened, that makes them seem to be unusually aggressive. The shrimp, you'll just have to chalk up to experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Update Hey Guys and Ladies, If you remember me (Sam) I had the Angelfish and Discus question, well there are a few changes. First, instead of the 150 gallon tank that i was going to buy i've come across a 75 gallon for free. (My Dads old tank) And instead of angelfish or dicus i've decided to keep only the fish I have. Making the chocolate gouramis the main attraction along with either curviceps or rams. I also have harlequin rasboras that I'm throwing in the mix. Here is the problem I have two of the most evil fish that I've ever owned, Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlids, they've cleaned my shrimp population out with the exeption of two amano shrimp, I thought these guys were peaceful, the chase my betta and snap at my dwarf frogs the are pure evil. Now here is the situation they chase the betta who chases the chocolate gouramis who chase the agassizis around. I've never seen this before in 20 years in the hobby. Well thanks for reading my complaints Sam

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33325	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200

When I've had tanks in a living area of the home, I usually set them about 6" from the wall to ensure some working room behind them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Can somebody tell me if you were putting this filter behind a tank how much room would you allow from the tanks back to a wall directly behind it? I can't find proper dimensions on the Internet for this product, they give conflicting information.  I need to hear from someone who is running one right now.    Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33326	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Update

Sam, You could name the Rams... Forrest and Gump... cuz they love dem shwimps... cherry schwimps, ghost schwimps, fried schwimps, BBQed schwimps, schwimp cocktail, boiled schwimps... but not dem dang amano schwimps, cuz dey taste like chick'n. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Update Agassiz's dwarf cichlids are cichlids, as their common name implies, and they seem to be acting like cichlids. If you have a true pair, they may simply be staking out a breeding territory, or their current home is too small for them, and the fish are coming into their territory, which they are defending. As for the shrimp, they were probably pretty grateful for giving them some live food--finally! Rams are peaceful, for cichlids. I do not think you are seeing anything unusual. It may be simply that they do not have a good space that they can call home, places where they can dash off and hide when they feel threatened, that makes them seem to be unusually aggressive. The shrimp, you'll just have to chalk up to experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of va22_vyshys Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Update Hey Guys and Ladies, If you remember me (Sam) I had the Angelfish and Discus question, well there are a few changes. First, instead of the 150 gallon tank that i was going to buy i've come across a 75 gallon for free. (My Dads old tank) And instead of angelfish or dicus i've decided to keep only the fish I have. Making the chocolate gouramis the main attraction along with either curviceps or rams. I also have harlequin rasboras that I'm throwing in the mix. Here is the problem I have two of the most evil fish that I've ever owned, Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlids, they've cleaned my shrimp population out with the exeption of two amano shrimp, I thought these guys were peaceful, the chase my betta and snap at my dwarf frogs the are pure evil. Now here is the situation they chase the betta who chases the chocolate gouramis who chase the agassizis around. I've never seen this before in 20 years in the hobby. Well thanks for reading my complaints Sam _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 9:27:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33327	From: bill1433	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200

Thanks Len,    Well documented as per usual!  Information is very spotty at best.  It might just be best to wait until I physically have both the tank and the filter in my hot hands before I go trying for permanent placement of anything.  I was trying to work ahead time table wise because it looks like, as far as I can tell,  I may have the tank before I have the filter, which has yet to be ordered.   Bill --- On Wed, 11/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 9:46 PM I happen to have a brand spanking new AC-50, still in the box, that I'm looking at right now. They haven't used the Model 200 for a while now... is this a used one? The AC-50 still filters up to 200 gph but they've changed the numbering to kind of reflect the tank size they recommend but remember to always upsize since most manufacturers over-rate their filter systems capabilities. Anyhow.. back to your question... It is 7 1/4" long (along the back of the tank). It is 4" from front to back, on the top, but that is the entire front to back measurement. If it sits completely down onto the top frame of the tank the rear clearance could be as little as 2 1/2" from the back of the top frame. I'd leave at least 3" since there are also small adjusters on the bottom of the reservoir to push the bottom out from the glass a little to make sure the water flows forward into the tank and not out the back of the top of the reservoir. Most HOB's have these little adjusters. It has a 1" lip clearance for the top frame. So this model may not be suitable for some acrylic tanks since acrylic tanks often have wider lips on the top frame to provide support to keep the acrylic from bowing since acrylic is much thinner than glass for similar sized tanks and acrylic is more flexible. For my 65G, I took my jigsaw and notched out a 1/2" section for the suction tube to fit through. For this AC-50 model, I'd have to make that notch at least 1" since I have a 1 1/2" wide lip on my 65G acrylic tank. I did this notch near the end of the back of the tank. I would be worried about making a notch in the support in the middle of the back of the tank. This thread found with Google also has the same info. http://www.nano- reef.com/ forums/index. php?showtopic= 174956 <http://www.nano- reef.com/ forums/index. php?showtopic= 174956&mode= linearplus> &mode=linearplus but it only mentions the 4" front to back but not the 2 1/2" clearance in the back.. or rather 3" to give you wiggle room. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Can somebody tell me if you were putting this filter behind a tank how much room would you allow from the tanks back to a wall directly behind it? I can't find proper dimensions on the Internet for this product, they give conflicting information. I need to hear from someone who is running one right now. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 8:46:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33328	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

LoL Yes the Kuhli was in with the ZD's And i will go buy a cheap pair of sockets to do the old gravel thing. Thanks Lenny Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

Awww.. I bet the fish would have liked some nice Victoria's Secret fishnet stockings... Oops.. that was me thinking that. ;-) LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dwarf Gorami LoL Yes the Kuhli was in with the ZD's And i will go buy a cheap pair of sockets to do the old gravel thing. Thanks Lenny Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 9:54:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33330	From: pam andress	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200

I have a 70, and it is 6 inches deep, so I would give yourself at least 7 inches. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: warrenprint@...: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:23:11 -0800Subject: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Can somebody tell me if you were putting this filter behind a tank howmuch room would you allow from the tanks back to a wall directly behind it?I can't find proper dimensions on the Internet for this product, they give conflicting information. I need to hear from someone who is running one right now. Bill[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33331	From: pam andress	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200

Correction! It is 6 inches in total depth. From the back of the tank, it is 4 1/2 inches, so you may want to give yourself 5-5 1/2 inches from the back of the tank to the wall. Sorry for the confusion. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: warrenprint@...: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:23:11 -0800Subject: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Can somebody tell me if you were putting this filter behind a tank howmuch room would you allow from the tanks back to a wall directly behind it?I can't find proper dimensions on the Internet for this product, they give conflicting information. I need to hear from someone who is running one right now. Bill[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33332	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gorami

lol Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Awww.. I bet the fish would have liked some nice Victoria's Secret fishnet > stockings... Oops.. that was me thinking that. ;-) LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dwarf Gorami > > LoL > Yes the Kuhli was in with the ZD's And i will go buy a cheap pair of sockets > to do the old gravel thing. > Thanks Lenny > > Lisa > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 > Tested on: 11/19/2008 9:54:15 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33333	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200

Pam, I'm not sure if you didn't get my earlier reply but the AC-50 is smaller and has similar housing depth dimensions to the AC-20 and AC-30. The AC-70 is a much larger housing filter system. But since you have one... What about the lip measurements on your AC-70? For example, many acrylic tanks have a much wider lip on the top frame to support the more flexible plexiglas on the long panes. Many smaller HOB's will not fit over this wider lip and that other thread I found didn't give the lip measurement for the AC-70 either. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:39 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Correction! It is 6 inches in total depth. From the back of the tank, it is 4 1/2 inches, so you may want to give yourself 5-5 1/2 inches from the back of the tank to the wall. Sorry for the confusion. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.comDate> : Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:23:11 -0800Subject: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Can somebody tell me if you were putting this filter behind a tank howmuch room would you allow from the tanks back to a wall directly behind it?I can't find proper dimensions on the Internet for this product, they give conflicting information. I need to hear from someone who is running one right now. Bill[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 10:51:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33334	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami

I'll have to find one of my mum's old pairs that are clean. And you hang them near the filters, air tube yes? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33335	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami

Well.. we know your new gravel will not have any nitrifying bacteria on it. If you separate your "old" gravel into four of the "sockets" (although I'm still imagining fishnets! lol), lay three of them on top of your new gravel so the nitrifying bacteria from the old gravel will be in contact with the new gravel for transference and also so the downward flow of the water will partially pass through the sockets to help nitrify any ammonia/nitrite. Then hang the fourth socket where the outflow of water coming out of the uplift tube flows as much over/through that socket as possible to give the nitrifying bacteria in that old gravel a better chance to nitrify any ammonia/nitrite. I do not know enough about your tank's setup and filter system to give any more explicit instructions. If you could take photos and post them, I could possibly give more precise instructions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami I'll have to find one of my mum's old pairs that are clean. And you hang them near the filters, air tube yes? Lisa Messages in this topic _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 10:57:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33336	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: starting a tank:

Back in the day...lol... sometimes its great being 'old' lol. My first under gravel filter was great, just awesome, until the time came that I had to move and break down the tank. Man, oh, man, it sure is gross under there!! And it did not matter what I did, or how many times (experience?) I tried cleaning it, it was always the same... gross. I pitched mine, pitched hubbies when I cleaned his the first time and, um, discovered it. The gravel always falls where you do not want it to, getting it worse and worse. Even when you scoop it out and into a bucket, there is the gravel along the sides and the stuff that gets underneath. It is a brown, yukky soup. Just wait, you will see, lol. I do not, have not and will never, ever 'vacuum' my gravel. (So, please, no hate mail... fire suit is on, lol) Old school. Deep bed that you do not mess with. That's how I am and that's how it works for me. Anyway, UGF, hate em, I vote NO. LOL Laura in KY In a message dated 11/19/2008 7:44:41 PM Central Standard Time, lisa_lawless2004@... writes: Hi Erin. I have just started to set up a 22gal freshwater. (Only started cycleing yesterday). And because of space i was given a under gravel filter. And i guess for short term they're ok. But a lost of people on here will probably tell you they're rapidly declining in terms of efficiency and popularity. Even though i'm very much a beginner in large aquarium keeping, i'd suggest going for the best 'hob' you can reasonably afford. As far as brands go, ask Lenny. Lisa **************Check out smokin’ hot deals on laptops, desktops and more from Dell. Shop Deals (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33337	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami

Yes. I am going to take a photo tonight and send it to the group in my album (Replace it with the one that's there without water) My mum said a background would be nice, and maybe at a later date...(I have bills to pay in the meantime...) a light. Not for plant growth (cause i don't have real ones) but just to be visually pleasing. :) 4 nylon sockett gravel balls? i can do that. Couldn't find the kuhli this morning either before i left for work. I think it's hidden itself in the gravel...or the giant silk amazon sword plant thingy... Maybe when i get home i'll find it again. They're cool little guys to watch...lol zipping about the tank... faster then the eye can follow... ...but i only have one eye. So i could miss it easyly... Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: starting a tank:

Laura, Do you have a heavily planted tank? I can understand not deep-vacuuming the gravel then, since the plants will utilize the broken down waste as nutrients but in a non-planted or lightly planted tank, if you don't vacuum the gravel it will become a nitrate factory and a likely haven for anaerobic bacterial growth and other good/bad critters that some might call nasties... like planaria, etc. While it might work for you, it's not something that should be recommended to newbie's as it will not likely work for 90% or more of fish keepers. Especially considering how so many folks have undersized tanks and/or oversized fish/bioload. In the "old" days (your words.. lol), more experienced fish keepers were more likely to have planted tanks and a smaller bioloads.. and the fish were more likely to be healthier and more hardy compared to the mass produced farm bred and raised fish of today. BTW.. your fire suit isn't going to protect you from my Neutron bomb email... I gave up flaming a long time ago! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@... Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:starting a tank: Back in the day...lol... sometimes its great being 'old' lol. My first under gravel filter was great, just awesome, until the time came that I had to move and break down the tank. Man, oh, man, it sure is gross under there!! And it did not matter what I did, or how many times (experience?) I tried cleaning it, it was always the same... gross. I pitched mine, pitched hubbies when I cleaned his the first time and, um, discovered it. The gravel always falls where you do not want it to, getting it worse and worse. Even when you scoop it out and into a bucket, there is the gravel along the sides and the stuff that gets underneath. It is a brown, yukky soup. Just wait, you will see, lol. I do not, have not and will never, ever 'vacuum' my gravel. (So, please, no hate mail... fire suit is on, lol) Old school. Deep bed that you do not mess with. That's how I am and that's how it works for me. Anyway, UGF, hate em, I vote NO. LOL Laura in KY In a message dated 11/19/2008 7:44:41 PM Central Standard Time, lisa_lawless2004@... <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> writes: Hi Erin. I have just started to set up a 22gal freshwater. (Only started cycleing yesterday). And because of space i was given a under gravel filter. And i guess for short term they're ok. But a lost of people on here will probably tell you they're rapidly declining in terms of efficiency and popularity. Even though i'm very much a beginner in large aquarium keeping, i'd suggest going for the best 'hob' you can reasonably afford. As far as brands go, ask Lenny. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 11:32:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33339	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami

OK. I kind of remember looking at yours set up in the dry tank but it did not show if you had an air line powered or motorized powerhead powered UGF. I also remember you had two uplift tubes.. right? You might want to start off with a socket of gravel hanging in front of each returning water uplift tube so the returning water flows over/through the sockets of "old" gravel. Then after a week or two, move one of the sockets down onto the new gravel so you only have one socket in the water flow. Then a couple of weeks later, start removing one socket of old gravel at a time from the bottom and lastly move the last hanging socket to the bottom for a week or so before removing it. This will in theory, keep you from having a major cycling issue but you might still have a mini-cycle so you'll have to test the ammonia/nitrite on a daily or every-other-day basis and be ready to do PWC's when needed. You could also use SeaChem's Prime as a tap water treatment which will help detoxify any ammonia and add at least a pinch of salt per 10G to help with any nitrite poisoning issues. If your pH is on the low side, below 7.5 or less, then ammonia becomes less toxic the lower the pH goes so at least that will help as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami Yes. I am going to take a photo tonight and send it to the group in my album (Replace it with the one that's there without water) My mum said a background would be nice, and maybe at a later date...(I have bills to pay in the meantime...) a light. Not for plant growth (cause i don't have real ones) but just to be visually pleasing. :) 4 nylon sockett gravel balls? i can do that. Couldn't find the kuhli this morning either before i left for work. I think it's hidden itself in the gravel...or the giant silk amazon sword plant thingy... Maybe when i get home i'll find it again. They're cool little guys to watch...lol zipping about the tank... faster then the eye can follow... ...but i only have one eye. So i could miss it easyly... Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/19/2008 11:38:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33340	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami

My air line is attached to a powerhead that has adjustable varying degrees of airflow And yes. There is two uplift tubes. The external powerhead you cant see, it's hidden out of sight Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. I kind of remember looking at yours set up in the dry tank but it did > not show if you had an air line powered or motorized powerhead powered UGF. > I also remember you had two uplift tubes.. right? You might want to start > off with a socket of gravel hanging in front of each returning water uplift > tube so the returning water flows over/through the sockets of "old" gravel. > Then after a week or two, move one of the sockets down onto the new gravel > so you only have one socket in the water flow. Then a couple of weeks > later, start removing one socket of old gravel at a time from the bottom and > lastly move the last hanging socket to the bottom for a week or so before > removing it. This will in theory, keep you from having a major cycling > issue but you might still have a mini-cycle so you'll have to test the > ammonia/nitrite on a daily or every-other-day basis and be ready to do PWC's > when needed. > > You could also use SeaChem's Prime as a tap water treatment which will help > detoxify any ammonia and add at least a pinch of salt per 10G to help with > any nitrite poisoning issues. If your pH is on the low side, below 7.5 or > less, then ammonia becomes less toxic the lower the pH goes so at least that > will help as well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33341	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: starting a tank:

Naw, I overkill with tank size...55 tall has a half dozen little guppies, a mini frog, a female betta and a couple of neon tetras. The plants I had planned on putting in there are still outside with the water iris. If they make it thru the winter they might go in there in the spring. Even if I wanted to, I can't get to the tank all that easily. I can stretch to dip water out to feed... lol, feed and water the plants at the same time... I used to buy fish emulsion for my plants. Imagine my delight when I realized I was growing it!!! And a stool to add water back in, and I can stretch to feed the fish, but I would never get back there to, say, dip out a dead fish, lol. The frog takes care of that. I keep saying I am gonna throw them all in a 20 gallon tank, but I never get around to it :) 'Newbies' have got the internet and all kinds of new info floating around out there. I don't see em listening to what I do, there are many better ways, I know that, but I just do what works for me. How good is your aim? With that bomb, I mean, we only have 2 bridges over the river here (I am 11 miles from the So IL one), the next closest is 45 miles away, and the next closest to that is like Cape Girardo LOL Laura In a message dated 11/19/2008 11:32:47 PM Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: While it might work for you, it's not something that should be recommended to newbie's as it will not likely work for 90% or more of fish keepers. Especially considering how so many folks have undersized tanks and/or oversized fish/bioload. In the "old" days (your words.. lol), more experienced fish keepers were more likely to have planted tanks and a smaller bioloads.. and the fish were more likely to be healthier and more hardy compared to the mass produced farm bred and raised fish of today. BTW.. your fire suit isn't going to protect you from my Neutron bomb email... I gave up flaming a long time ago! LOL **************Check out smokin’ hot deals on laptops, desktops and more from Dell. Shop Deals (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33342	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami

OK. Just so we bridge the language barrier. We call a powerhead an electric motorized device (a small water pump) that goes in the water and it sucks in water and squirts it out at a reasonably high rate of speed. What you are describing is what we would call an air pump, that sits outside the tank and pumps air through an airline into the tank. This airline could be connected to the bottom of the uplift tube or just stuck down inside the uplift tube and then as the air bubble float up, they push water up the tube creating a water flow that sucks water down through the gravel, under the UGF plates and then back up through the uplift tube. Many UGF's are powered by powerheads sitting on top of the UGF tubes so they suck up a lot more water than the air bubble powered UGF's. Here's a picture of a common powerhead picture that I found with Google.. I know nothing about this brand... http://www.tropicalfishencounter.com/store/images/ap1500.jpg It just sucks in water through the intake screen.. which this would be connected to your uplift tube.. and then the water gets squirted out through the nozzle. The airline tube can be connected to the little nub on the nozzle to allow a little air injection into the water stream if needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami My air line is attached to a powerhead that has adjustable varying degrees of airflow And yes. There is two uplift tubes. The external powerhead you cant see, it's hidden out of sight Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. I kind of remember looking at yours set up in the dry tank but it did > not show if you had an air line powered or motorized powerhead powered UGF. > I also remember you had two uplift tubes.. right? You might want to start > off with a socket of gravel hanging in front of each returning water uplift > tube so the returning water flows over/through the sockets of "old" gravel. > Then after a week or two, move one of the sockets down onto the new gravel > so you only have one socket in the water flow. Then a couple of weeks > later, start removing one socket of old gravel at a time from the bottom and > lastly move the last hanging socket to the bottom for a week or so before > removing it. This will in theory, keep you from having a major cycling > issue but you might still have a mini-cycle so you'll have to test the > ammonia/nitrite on a daily or every-other-day basis and be ready to do PWC's > when needed. > > You could also use SeaChem's Prime as a tap water treatment which will help > detoxify any ammonia and add at least a pinch of salt per 10G to help with > any nitrite poisoning issues. If your pH is on the low side, below 7.5 or > less, then ammonia becomes less toxic the lower the pH goes so at least that > will help as well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 12:41:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33343	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: Re: starting a tank:

Well.. I only use small Neutron bombs so I'll have to track down your IP address to get close enough. Remember the old saying... close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and atom bombs... and neutron bombs too! LOL Besides, I wouldn't want to get too close to Cape Girardo... that's the birth town of the infamous Rush Limbaugh! ;-) It's good that you go with oversized and understocked tanks. That allows you a lot more enjoyment of the tanks and a LOT less maintenance.. and it's why you don't have to worry about your waste build-up as much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AwlArtist@... Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:starting a tank: Naw, I overkill with tank size...55 tall has a half dozen little guppies, a mini frog, a female betta and a couple of neon tetras. The plants I had planned on putting in there are still outside with the water iris. If they make it thru the winter they might go in there in the spring. Even if I wanted to, I can't get to the tank all that easily. I can stretch to dip water out to feed... lol, feed and water the plants at the same time... I used to buy fish emulsion for my plants. Imagine my delight when I realized I was growing it!!! And a stool to add water back in, and I can stretch to feed the fish, but I would never get back there to, say, dip out a dead fish, lol. The frog takes care of that. I keep saying I am gonna throw them all in a 20 gallon tank, but I never get around to it :) 'Newbies' have got the internet and all kinds of new info floating around out there. I don't see em listening to what I do, there are many better ways, I know that, but I just do what works for me. How good is your aim? With that bomb, I mean, we only have 2 bridges over the river here (I am 11 miles from the So IL one), the next closest is 45 miles away, and the next closest to that is like Cape Girardo LOL Laura In a message dated 11/19/2008 11:32:47 PM Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: While it might work for you, it's not something that should be recommended to newbie's as it will not likely work for 90% or more of fish keepers. Especially considering how so many folks have undersized tanks and/or oversized fish/bioload. In the "old" days (your words.. lol), more experienced fish keepers were more likely to have planted tanks and a smaller bioloads.. and the fish were more likely to be healthier and more hardy compared to the mass produced farm bred and raised fish of today. BTW.. your fire suit isn't going to protect you from my Neutron bomb email... I gave up flaming a long time ago! LOL _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 12:48:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33344	From: Lisa	Date: 11/19/2008
Subject: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami

I added a new photo of my tank with the plants moved around, water in it, and now cycleing I think it's pretty! Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33345	From: James Romero	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami

--- On Thu, 11/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 20 November, 2008, 6:41 AM OK. Just so we bridge the language barrier. We call a powerhead an electric motorized device (a small water pump) that goes in the water and it sucks in water and squirts it out at a reasonably high rate of speed. What you are describing is what we would call an air pump, that sits outside the tank and pumps air through an airline into the tank. This airline could be connected to the bottom of the uplift tube or just stuck down inside the uplift tube and then as the air bubble float up, they push water up the tube creating a water flow that sucks water down through the gravel, under the UGF plates and then back up through the uplift tube. Many UGF's are powered by powerheads sitting on top of the UGF tubes so they suck up a lot more water than the air bubble powered UGF's. Here's a picture of a common powerhead picture that I found with Google.. I know nothing about this brand... http://www.tropical fishencounter. com/store/ images/ap1500. jpg It just sucks in water through the intake screen.. which this would be connected to your uplift tube.. and then the water gets squirted out through the nozzle. The airline tube can be connected to the little nub on the nozzle to allow a little air injection into the water stream if needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:53 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] U/G filter mediums. Was- Re: Dwarf Gorami My air line is attached to a powerhead that has adjustable varying degrees of airflow And yes. There is two uplift tubes. The external powerhead you cant see, it's hidden out of sight Lisa --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > OK. I kind of remember looking at yours set up in the dry tank but it did > not show if you had an air line powered or motorized powerhead powered UGF. > I also remember you had two uplift tubes.. right? You might want to start > off with a socket of gravel hanging in front of each returning water uplift > tube so the returning water flows over/through the sockets of "old" gravel. > Then after a week or two, move one of the sockets down onto the new gravel > so you only have one socket in the water flow. Then a couple of weeks > later, start removing one socket of old gravel at a time from the bottom and > lastly move the last hanging socket to the bottom for a week or so before > removing it. This will in theory, keep you from having a major cycling > issue but you might still have a mini-cycle so you'll have to test the > ammonia/nitrite on a daily or every-other- day basis and be ready to do PWC's > when needed. > > You could also use SeaChem's Prime as a tap water treatment which will help > detoxify any ammonia and add at least a pinch of salt per 10G to help with > any nitrite poisoning issues. If your pH is on the low side, below 7.5 or > less, then ammonia becomes less toxic the lower the pH goes so at least that > will help as well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 12:41:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. New Email names for you! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/ph/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33346	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:

Laura, As you have not stated who you are replying to, nor have you included that person's message here wuith yours, under your reply I have no way of knowing to whom you are referring. WHICH treatment does not work with a Betta??? Are you by chance referring to Clove Oil or Vodka, which Lenny has supplied links for? If this is the case (and I'm not yet sure of you're intention), what would the fact that Bettas being able to breathe air from the surface have anything to do with this? Their gills still function regardless of what the parameters of their water is like, or what has been added to these parameters. As such, their gills will absorb any and all dissolved materials in the water. Just because Bettas CAN breathe air from the surface, does not mean they do not have gills -- or that they can turn off the function of this PRIMARY respiration system. Your statement suggests that Bettas take in oxygen with their labyrinth system only, when in fact this is an AUXILLIARY breathing system (please refer to my post # 33250, 11/18/08 10:05PM - it seems you haven't read it), as outlined in my reply in the Subject "help betta on his way out." Bettas cannot live only on oxygen obtained via their labyrinth system and at the same time avoid any aqueous influences via their gills. Please post only correct information when replying to a message, it would be most appreciated; moderating this web site is pleasurable, but erroneous information only adds to confusion which needs additional time to address -- thank you. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AwlArtist@... wrote: > > > This treatment does NOT work with a Betta, as they breathe from the surface > air, not the air in the water. > I tend to do the freezer method. > Reading both sites, top to bottom, this is also a barbaric method, esp if > done 'wrong' as so many seemed to do. > Laura > > Hopefully you won't need this but here's a couple of sites that explain > humane methods. > _http://www.aquatic-http://wwhttp://www.http://wwwhttp://w_ > (http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14) > > _http://www.wisegeekhttp://wwwhttp://www.whttp://www.http://www.wihttp ://www_ > (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a- fish.htm) > > I don't recall the problem with your fish.. what are they? > > > **************Check out smokin’ hot deals on laptops, desktops and more from > Dell. Shop Deals > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1213345834x1200842686/aol? redir=http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;209513277;31396581;l) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33347	From: bill1433	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: With All Due Respect--UG Filters

Folks with all due respect here; after reading some recent posted comments about cleaning underneath UG filter plates and their use in general I can only say one thing-----------YOUR DOING IT WRONG!� It�s no wonder they got such bad mark�s from you on the poll. � First, if you have to clean under the plate at all within a year or so, then you are feeding your fish way too much food, it�s that simple.� Years ago, I had� many tanks from 100 gallons on down and I can tell you that they were up and running for over 5 years or better without tear-downs or problems.� One tank did not have UG plates and the reason for this was simple.� This tank held very large fish like Pacu�s, Oscars, large cats.� These large fish like to arrange or create their own tank environment and UG�s or their lift tubes either, will not work.� I had Oscars that loved to ripe them out! � UG filters are for one thing and one thing only.� The creation and cultivation of necessary bacteria in the aquarium.� Once a tank has been thoroughly cycled and fish added, you will find that you can get away with a bit of over-crowding without issue.� Now the �pros� will tell you that this is wrong.� BUT I know you can keep more fish in a tank with UG�s than you can with one that does not have them.� I�ve done it, and for longer than a few days or months.� If you have a few tanks and one turns bad you can quite easily put those fish into one of your other tanks without fear (fish compatibility not withstanding).� UG filters ARE NOT FILTERS AT ALL, they are water movers.� They should never be thought of as a filter in the mechanical sense that is not their purpose.� The word �filter� to describe them is a complete misnomer.� Now can you clean underneath one without issue? � The answer is no.� Even today with all the wet/dry vacuums on the market (the best way if you have to do it at all) you will not get everything cleaned up, this is their draw back.� Also never try moving your plate until ALL gravel is removed, you will get some very nasty scratches on your glass or plastic if you do, another drawback.� The only way you can have one without� issue at all is exactly the way most display tanks are setup at Sea World.� They have clean-out plugs or drain valves directly under their filter plates.� PWC time?� Simple just open the valves under the plates!� Most aquarists don�t have that option.� Remember also, that you must still do common cleaning of your gravel just as you would without an UG by using a gravel washer and also you can�t lay large rock work completely flat on the bottom of the tank, it will hinder water flow through the plates. � Are they worth the extra money and trouble?� That depends on a few simple choices.� Do you want live plants?� Do you want snails in your tank (eggs will get caught under the plates and so will fish fry!).� How big are the fish you want to keep?� And lastly their make-up.� Will you mind those large lift tubes in the back of your tank?� There are also some minor issues with them in the matter of performance.� You can go over-board with power today.� Years ago, before the use of power heads, we used air-stones to lift the water.� Today it�s more than possible to power up in such a manner that your gravel will actually compact itself and this restricted water flow through it and this is not good.� Aside from that?� Your good to go.� UG�s?� Give them a whirl!� � Just remember, they are not filters at all but rather bacteria cultivators.� For the folks that can only have one tank, they might be worthy consideration for the amount of fish kept, but you can�t over-run your ammonia load to the tank either, there are limits.� Careful monitoring with your test kits is still just as important as without these filters in place and maybe more so. � � Bill-----------sorry for the length of this message, I got carried away, but I think these facts needed to be pointed out to one and all.� IMHO. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33348	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Hi \\Steve//, No need for any corrections here, but as I've seen the first introduction of these new (power) filters first-hand, with them I've always found the subject of power filters interesting. With your urging I'd be glad to add to this topic. At the time they first came on the market, they were nothing short of one of the greatest innovations in the aquarium hobby to that date and a refreshingly new revolutionary way to filter your aquariums The term "power filter" means just that, a filter that is driven having some type of impeller, via a motor to directly move the water mechanically. As you've stated, before the advent of power filters, there were air operated filters which, although a good step forward in aquarium maintenance, were not as efficient. So, by this, it can be seen that not all filters can be assumed to be "power filters." Many hobbyists today still use air-operated filters either as their main system, or in conjunction with power filters (I still use them in many of my tanks). I'd take the guess that the term "Power Heads" were derived from the same principle of directly (mechanically) moving water, as opposed to having the water air-lifted. Air-operated HOB filters first came into popular use in the 1930's, a company by the name of J.B. Marris (Marco) offered them in several sizes (Stainless Steel framed glass) at that time as part of their hobby line. While filtration was always part of the hobby to some extent, many hobbyists were still embracing the "balanced aquarium" concept of the day (or, at least part of that principle), and rather successfully I might add (which takes some talent and knowledge). These filters were continually improved, especially in rates of flow. Scattergood (brand) air-operated HOB filters (molded plastic) came out sometimes after the War and found increased popularity, although the older aquarists of that time still clung to the tried and true Marco filters. Having fish early on, I remember one of my buddy's father having these filters in the early 1950's; they were a good deal larger in capacity. As late as March 1955, improvements were being made to these molded plastic air-operated HOB filters, as was seen in literature that month with the introduction of Halvin Corp.'s "Filter-Fast Filter" which was advertised as high rate filter -- of 60 GPH -- said to be equal to many household faucets. Other manufacturers' air operated filters were also on the market at this time, which would include Miracle, Saxon, Wil-Nes and several other brands. Shortly afterwards, inside ("Corner" and "Bottom") air-operated filters became available. Developed during this time, and being first introduced in May 1955 as the first Power Filter was the "Hoke Filter-Pump" (at $27.50), an HOB- I (Hang On Back - Internal, lol) which consisted of a perforated (line of 1/4" holes at water entrance level) heavy plastic box hung for the aquarium back, but resting within the tank. An integrally- molded exit "L"-spout design as part of the box continued in totally eliminating any need for any of the more familiar filter tubes. Its rate of flow was figured as 150 GPH, a great improvement over any air- operated filter. Designed by John Hoke, this filter was released by Marine Aquarium Products. Not being developed before Hoke's design, but first offered also during that same month was an external HOB power filter (1st outside HOB power filter to hit the market) manufactured by J. Scheidl Co. as its "Excelo-Flo Aquarium Filter." The separate pump unit itself (mounted at one end on top of the plastic filter box) was rated as "in excess of 100 GPH," belt-driven by a moter mounted on the filter back. Priced at $39.75, that was a hefty price to pay in those days when an average salary might not be more than $125 week (gross), or less; it could be near half a week's wages. It wasn't until 7 or 8 years later that I bought a number of vastly improved HOB power filters, at $15 each (wholesale) for a bank of my larger (50 gallon) tanks, still considered as among the first power filters; they still run, but I no longer use them. They were produced by Add-Life Co., which ultimately Eugene Danner (Supreme Aquamaster Filters) bought out. All parts are interchangeable with Supreme, although Danner made a molded plastic filter box. Add-Life's filter box is one-piece stainless steel with 3 glass panels (two sides and the furthest outside back). Top grade stainless steel -- still as good as new. In the meantime, I've bought a number of Supreme Aquamaster filters (still have some new in the box), and I believe them to be one of the best power filters ever made. They'll still stand up to many filters of today -- but they're not that cheap to run very many of them with electric rates the way they are now. Ray BTW, the UGF concept was just getting off the ground around this time (mid '50's); Miracle Filter was one of the first to start offering them them. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > With regard to your statement about not knowing why they are called power filters: > > Back in the day, there were also filters that hung from the back or side of an aquarium that moved the water via air flow going through the water. This is when we mainly used bubble-up corner filters in the tank. This setup moved the filter outside the tank to provide more room inside the tank, and make hiding the filter a lot easier. Sometime after the introduction of the outside bubble type filter someone got the idea that if a motor was added to the filter one would get more flow, and, possibly, eliminate the need for the air pump as a part of filtration system. These were called power filters, and, I guess, the name stuck. > > I look to Ray for corrections and additions he might want to make to this history. This is what I recall. I also recall that the Supreme AquaMaster was very expensive at the time, and my parents would not buy me one no matter how I cajoled them to do so. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: > > Depends on the size of tank but for smaller tanks 10G to 30G, I'd go with > the AquaClear brand of HOB's (hang on back) also called power filters... but > I've never understood why since most filters are powered. LOL For larger > tanks, you should have two filter systems. A canister is good for large > filter media volume but a larger AquaClear HOB or two are also a good > option. > > Even with AC's, it's best to get the next step up in power from what the > manufacturer might describe their filter for. The good thing about AC's is > that you can adjust the water flow so even with an AC-20 or AC-30 on a 10G > tank, you could slow down the water flow to about 20% of it's full power. > > Go to my blog and read my LONG article on Filter Cleaning & Maintenance for > lots of info on various filters and here's a Filter Profile on the AC-20 and > 30 so you can see more details. > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > > More filter profiles here... > http://thegab.org/Articles/filters.html > > I have a couple of filter profiles on my own blog also but I also > participated in several of the above profiles which is why I never > replicated them on my own site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of pomlady101 > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] starting a tank: > > It has been quite a few years since I last had a tank. I have what I think > is a 20 gallon (can't remember, which if you knew me and my memory is > typical,lol) Is there some types,brands of filters that are better than > others? What would anyone reccomend for this type of setup? > Any advice greatly appreciated.:) > thanks Erin B. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008 > Tested on: 11/19/2008 4:17:11 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33349	From: AwlArtist@aol.com	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:

In a message dated 11/20/2008 6:32:21 AM Central Standard Time, sevenspringss@... writes: Are you by chance referring to Clove Oil or Vodka, which Lenny has supplied links for? Um, Yes, and I did include the message, with the links, stating that I had read them top to bottom, with intrest, as I have only had to do this a few times... Anyway, many people had written in that had been trying to put Betta's down, and it simply caused more trauma than sleep. Did you read the 2 sites? Laura **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33350	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

Okay so other than the 2 cory's I didn't have any other casualties (so far at least). The ammonia bloom (cloudiness) also went away over night after cleaning the filter, so I would assume that my procrastination is what caused the little fiasco ;) I am going to keep an eye on things for a little while before I replace the cory's, to make sure the tank doesn't do anything else I don't want it to ;) hehe. Also, I have used Nitromax Fresh (the one for freshwater tanks) in the past, it states that it has more nitrifying bacteria than any other product (over 2 billion per ounce). Now my question is, does anyone else use this product and what are your opinions on it? I noticed that it definately reduced my initial cycle time but I was wondering how it compares to Dr Tim's One and Only. It's way cheaper than the one and only, and is also on sale right now at Drsfostersmith.com. It's also one that needs to be kept cold like the One and Only, so I would assume it shouldn't be much different, but I'm not an expert either ;) Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33351	From: pam andress	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200

Lenny, I just happened to have put this on an acrylic tank. The measurment I think you are looking for is about 1 inch. The problem I had was that the plastic thingy under the filter did not go close enough to the tank to level it out. I had to put a towel between the tank and the filter. Otherwise it fit fine. I was a little concerned that I wouldn't have a filter to work on this tank, but this fit good even if it is a bit too much filter for it. The tank is 23 gals. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:51:44 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Pam,I'm not sure if you didn't get my earlier reply but the AC-50 is smaller andhas similar housing depth dimensions to the AC-20 and AC-30. The AC-70 is amuch larger housing filter system. But since you have one...What about the lip measurements on your AC-70? For example, many acrylictanks have a much wider lip on the top frame to support the more flexibleplexiglas on the long panes. Many smaller HOB's will not fit over thiswider lip and that other thread I found didn't give the lip measurement forthe AC-70 either.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:39 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50gallon tank 200 gphCorrection! It is 6 inches in total depth. From the back of the tank, it is4 1/2 inches, so you may want to give yourself 5-5 1/2 inches from the backof the tank to the wall. Sorry for the confusion.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : warrenprint@...<mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.comDate> : Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:23:11-0800Subject: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50gallon tank 200 gphCan somebody tell me if you were putting this filter behind a tank howmuchroom would you allow from the tanks back to a wall directly behind it?Ican't find proper dimensions on the Internet for this product, they giveconflicting information. I need to hear from someone who is running oneright now. Bill[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081119-0, 11/19/2008Tested on: 11/19/2008 10:51:44 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work as advertised... mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax Fresh is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over 2 billion live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that the correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter bacteria which were thought, for several years, to be the right ones... weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other noted scientists reviewed Dr. Tim's work and found it to be correct. Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate levels, for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but you see that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second stage of the nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the correct bacteria for the nitrite stage. That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying to get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new and correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the original Bio-Spira. The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and Marineland.. which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which point, you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria products to compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart (formerly Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see many more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these products will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. Tim's...", etc. Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the original patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but that product had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced products that Dr. Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents pending that will last another ten years so any competitor's products will have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by Dr. Tim or Tetra. I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated although I did see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on the DFS site but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 does not say anything about refrigerating it before or after opening it. I'm sure since Bio-Spira first came out, other companies have been working on replicating the process without violating any patents so there will be viable competitors... I'm just not sure if this is one of them. Try Googling to find a few people that have actually used this to start up a brand new aquarium so that it is fully cycled on day one. In all the threads that I've looked at on this product, nobody has done it yet. This has been done time and time again with Bio-Spira. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax Okay so other than the 2 cory's I didn't have any other casualties (so far at least). The ammonia bloom (cloudiness) also went away over night after cleaning the filter, so I would assume that my procrastination is what caused the little fiasco ;) I am going to keep an eye on things for a little while before I replace the cory's, to make sure the tank doesn't do anything else I don't want it to ;) hehe. Also, I have used Nitromax Fresh (the one for freshwater tanks) in the past, it states that it has more nitrifying bacteria than any other product (over 2 billion per ounce). Now my question is, does anyone else use this product and what are your opinions on it? I noticed that it definately reduced my initial cycle time but I was wondering how it compares to Dr Tim's One and Only. It's way cheaper than the one and only, and is also on sale right now at Drsfostersmith.com. It's also one that needs to be kept cold like the One and Only, so I would assume it shouldn't be much different, but I'm not an expert either ;) Thanks, Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 4:09:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33353	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200

Is that the official patented "thingy"? It's amazing just how many products rely on this remarkable "thingy" or they would not work. I bet there are thousands of "thingy's" that keep airplanes flying and buildings standing.. not to mention how many "thingy's" that I've bought for repairing my trucks and work equipment over the years. Gee.. I wish I held the patent on the "thingy"... oh yeah.. and the "what-cha-ma-callit" and "doo-hickey" too! LOL When I was setting up my 65G acrylic, it had a 1 1/4" wide top frame, so I had to try on a few filters to find one that sat properly so the water fall lip fit over the top of the tank properly. The Marineland Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel has the widest lip on the market.. at least it did several years ago. It's the only one that would fit on my tank without me having to modify/notch out the top frame. The first time I did it, the tank was empty but when that HOB started leaking, I needed to replace it and couldn't modify the tank again since it was set up with fish, etc., so drilling and sawing the acrylic was out of the question. For others reading this.. this issue mostly only exists with BIG acrylic tanks that need the added top frame strentch to keep the long sections of acrylic from bowing. This is not an issue with smaller acrylic tanks. But it's definitely something to think about when buying online. Go check out the measurements and clearances of filters and stuff at a LFS or pet store before buying it sight-unseen online. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:51 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Lenny, I just happened to have put this on an acrylic tank. The measurment I think you are looking for is about 1 inch. The problem I had was that the plastic thingy under the filter did not go close enough to the tank to level it out. I had to put a towel between the tank and the filter. Otherwise it fit fine. I was a little concerned that I wouldn't have a filter to work on this tank, but this fit good even if it is a bit too much filter for it. The tank is 23 gals. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:51:44 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Pam,I'm not sure if you didn't get my earlier reply but the AC-50 is smaller andhas similar housing depth dimensions to the AC-20 and AC-30. The AC-70 is amuch larger housing filter system. But since you have one...What about the lip measurements on your AC-70? For example, many acrylictanks have a much wider lip on the top frame to support the more flexibleplexiglas on the long panes. Many smaller HOB's will not fit over thiswider lip and that other thread I found didn't give the lip measurement forthe AC-70 either.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:39 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50gallon tank 200 gphCorrection! It is 6 inches in total depth. From the back of the tank, it is4 1/2 inches, so you may want to give yourself 5-5 1/2 inches from the backof the tank to the wall. Sorry for the confusion.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.comDate> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.comDate> : Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:23:11-0800Subject: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50gallon tank 200 gphCan somebody tell me if you were putting this filter behind a tank howmuchroom would you allow from the tanks back to a wall directly behind it?Ican't find proper dimensions on the Internet for this product, they giveconflicting information. I need to hear from someone who is running oneright now. Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 4:27:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33354	From: jett07002	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Thanks \\Steve// and Ray for that stroll down memory lane. Brought back many a happy moment and I read all your comments with a smile of recognition to the old days. I still have one of Danner's "Supreme Dynaflow" pumps. The two piston jobs. Housing got a little rusty but it still runs. (Keep them washers oiled!) Have three AquaMasters and they are still running, also. Hardest part about using them is getting the intake "J" tubes to bring the water in the box. LOL Thanks for going through the bother of the history lesson. I enjoyed reading it. ;O) joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi \\Steve//, No need for any corrections here, but as I've seen the > first introduction of these new (power) filters first-hand, with them > I've always found the subject of power filters interesting. With > your urging I'd be glad to add to this topic. At the time they first > came on the market, they were nothing short of one of the greatest > innovations in the aquarium hobby to that date and a refreshingly new > revolutionary way to filter your aquariums.......... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33355	From: pam andress	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200

Of course that is the official patented "thingy". What else would it be? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:27:43 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank 200 gph Is that the official patented "thingy"? It's amazing just how many productsrely on this remarkable "thingy" or they would not work. I bet there arethousands of "thingy's" that keep airplanes flying and buildings standing..not to mention how many "thingy's" that I've bought for repairing my trucksand work equipment over the years. Gee.. I wish I held the patent on the"thingy"... oh yeah.. and the "what-cha-ma-callit" and "doo-hickey" too!LOLWhen I was setting up my 65G acrylic, it had a 1 1/4" wide top frame, so Ihad to try on a few filters to find one that sat properly so the water falllip fit over the top of the tank properly. The Marineland Penguin 200Bio-Wheel has the widest lip on the market.. at least it did several yearsago. It's the only one that would fit on my tank without me having tomodify/notch out the top frame. The first time I did it, the tank was emptybut when that HOB started leaking, I needed to replace it and couldn'tmodify the tank again since it was set up with fish, etc., so drilling andsawing the acrylic was out of the question.For others reading this.. this issue mostly only exists with BIG acrylictanks that need the added top frame strentch to keep the long sections ofacrylic from bowing. This is not an issue with smaller acrylic tanks. Butit's definitely something to think about when buying online. Go check outthe measurements and clearances of filters and stuff at a LFS or pet storebefore buying it sight-unseen online.Lenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:51 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50gallon tank 200 gphLenny,I just happened to have put this on an acrylic tank. The measurment I thinkyou are looking for is about 1 inch. The problem I had was that the plasticthingy under the filter did not go close enough to the tank to level it out.I had to put a towel between the tank and the filter. Otherwise it fit fine.I was a little concerned that I wouldn't have a filter to work on this tank,but this fit good even if it is a bit too much filter for it. The tank is 23gals.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:51:44 -0600Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50 gallon tank200 gphPam,I'm not sure if you didn't get my earlier reply but the AC-50 is smallerandhas similar housing depth dimensions to the AC-20 and AC-30. The AC-70 isamuch larger housing filter system. But since you have one...What about thelip measurements on your AC-70? For example, many acrylictanks have a muchwider lip on the top frame to support the more flexibleplexiglas on the longpanes. Many smaller HOB's will not fit over thiswider lip and that otherthread I found didn't give the lip measurement forthe AC-70 either.LennyVasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listedon the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----OriginalMessage-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent:Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:39 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] HagenAquaClear Powerfilters Model 200 (50) 50gallon tank 200 gphCorrection! It is6 inches in total depth. From the back of the tank, it is4 1/2 inches, soyou may want to give yourself 5-5 1/2 inches from the backof the tank to thewall. Sorry for the confusion.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : warrenprint@...<mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.comDate> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.comDate> :Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:23:11-0800Subject: [AquaticLife] Hagen AquaClearPowerfilters Model 200 (50) 50gallon tank 200 gphCan somebody tell me if youwere putting this filter behind a tank howmuchroom would you allow from thetanks back to a wall directly behind it?Ican't find proper dimensions on theInternet for this product, they giveconflicting information. I need to hearfrom someone who is running oneright now. Bill_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008Tested on: 11/20/2008 4:27:42 PMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33356	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was because I will need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at least 4 of the 2 oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS sells for 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not sure what the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz bottles are going to cost me over 60 dollars basically (without shipping). I didn't really want to spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a tank cycle if I take out some of my carbon from my cycled filter and put it into the new filter? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like many of > the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work as advertised... > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax Fresh is a > highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over 2 billion live > nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, using > peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that the correct > bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were nitrosomonas, > nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter bacteria which were thought, > for several years, to be the right ones... weren't! This has been > peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other noted scientists reviewed Dr. > Tim's > work and found it to be correct. > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate levels, for > rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but you see that it > does > not mention nitrIte which is the second stage of the nitrogen cycle. This > is because it does not contain the correct bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying to > get rid > of their inventory so they can come out with the new and correct kind of > bottled bacteria to compete with the original Bio-Spira. > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and Marineland.. > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which point, > you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria products to > compete with > Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart (formerly Bio-Spira) and any > other > licensed competitors. You may even see many more licensed competitors > before the 10 year mark but these products will advertise "Same as > Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. Tim's...", etc. > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the original > patent > on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but that product had to be > kept refrigerated so the newer advanced products that Dr. Tim and > Tetra are > now selling likely have patents or patents pending that will last another > ten years so any competitor's products will have to be kept refrigerated > unless licensed by Dr. Tim or Tetra. > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated although I did > see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on the DFS site but the > manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs > http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> does > not say > anything about refrigerating it before or after opening it. > > I'm sure since Bio-Spira first came out, other companies have been working > on replicating the process without violating any patents so there will be > viable competitors... I'm just not sure if this is one of them. Try > Googling to find a few people that have actually used this to start up a > brand new aquarium so that it is fully cycled on day one. In all the > threads that I've looked at on this product, nobody has done it yet. This > has been done time and time again with Bio-Spira. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > Okay so other than the 2 cory's I didn't have any other casualties (so far > at least). The ammonia bloom (cloudiness) also went away over night after > cleaning the filter, so I would assume that my procrastination is what > caused the little fiasco ;) I am going to keep an eye on things for a > little > while before I replace the cory's, to make sure the tank doesn't do > anything > else I don't want it to ;) hehe. > > Also, I have used Nitromax Fresh (the one for freshwater tanks) in the > past, > it states that it has more nitrifying bacteria than any other product > (over > 2 billion per ounce). Now my question is, does anyone else use this > product > and what are your opinions on it? I noticed that it definately reduced my > initial cycle time but I was wondering how it compares to Dr Tim's One and > Only. It's way cheaper than the one and only, and is also on sale > right now > at Drsfostersmith.com. It's also one that needs to be kept cold like > the One > and Only, so I would assume it shouldn't be much different, but I'm not an > expert either ;) > > Thanks, > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 > Tested on: 11/20/2008 4:09:54 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33357	From: Lisa	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Live Plants

I'm looking for some ideas for some live plants. Low maintenance, low light requirements, and preferably floating, yet robust. I was thinking duckweed or banana lily. Can anyone else suggest anything? English names please. Not latin. My substrate is just washed gravel by the way. Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33358	From: Jerry	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Fungus problem

I have a 55 gal fresh water aquarium. For the last several months I have been having a problem with fish having body fungus, eye fungus (with pop eye) and general sick looking with fins closed and fish laying on the bottom of the tank.There is no sign of ick The only fish this seems to infect are plattys and to a lesser extent guppys. I also have kissing gouramies, silver dollars, black tetras and zebra danios. I have tried several meds but it just won't clear up. I do 30% water changes every 3 or 4 weeks. Do any of you have any suggestions? Jerry Stoper

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33359	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants

http://www.PlantGeek.net has a very simple way to find what you need. Click on Plant Guide at the top. Click the Difficulty button first. Then click the Very Easy button. Look over those 14 plants.. although I don't see any that fit your noted parameters. Next, go back and click on the Easy button, which has 76 plants listed. On the right hand side of each plant, you'll see "Tank Placement" as one of the parameters. Look at the ones that have Floating. Your other option, which might be easier since you mainly are looking for floating plants... while on the Plant Guide page, click on the Aquascaping button and then click on the Floating button and look at the 25 listed and look for the ones that have a Difficulty rating of Very Easy or Easy. I see at least 10 are listed as Easy. I did not see Anacharis listed as a floating plant but it can be left floating and does very well as a floating plant since it will get more lighting that way and also get more CO2 from the surface air while still getting plenty of nutrients from the water column. Anacharis will also root but the roots are simple root structures and are an anchor system rather than a nutrient supply system. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Live Plants I'm looking for some ideas for some live plants. Low maintenance, low light requirements, and preferably floating, yet robust. I was thinking duckweed or banana lily. Can anyone else suggest anything? English names please. Not latin. My substrate is just washed gravel by the way. Thanks Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 10:25:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33360	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Joe, Glad to bring back some memories of the days of yor. Some of the newer hobbyists may not necessarily appreciate the history lesson, only as they haven't been there, but it does give insight in that power filters were not always a part of the scene -- just as all- glass tanks were not always the normal "shape of things." Depending on the model (and probably how new it is), some AquaMaster "J" (inlet) tubes are double-wide and can't use just a finger to close off the end. You need to use their specially shaped end cap to seal off these tubes, which can be a royal pain. Better off just buying a few 3/4" round filter tubes; saves a lot of headaches. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > Thanks \\Steve// and Ray for that stroll down memory lane. Brought > back many a happy moment and I read all your comments with a smile of > recognition to the old days. > > I still have one of Danner's "Supreme Dynaflow" pumps. The two piston > jobs. Housing got a little rusty but it still runs. (Keep them > washers oiled!) > > Have three AquaMasters and they are still running, also. Hardest part > about using them is getting the intake "J" tubes to bring the water in > the box. LOL > > Thanks for going through the bother of the history lesson. I enjoyed > reading it. ;O) > > joe t > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve//, No need for any corrections here, but as I've seen the > > first introduction of these new (power) filters first-hand, with them > > I've always found the subject of power filters interesting. With > > your urging I'd be glad to add to this topic. At the time they first > > came on the market, they were nothing short of one of the greatest > > innovations in the aquarium hobby to that date and a refreshingly new > > revolutionary way to filter your aquariums.......... > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

The Na is the chemical symbol for Salt... thus Na H20 is Salt Water. ;-) All of Dr. Tim's FW products have the trademark "H2O Pure" and his SW products have the trademark "Na H2O Pure". Since your tank is FW, you'll want the One And Only for "H2O Pure". While I'm a big proponent of One And Only, I realize he also has to sell other products to support his company but many of his other products are not needed or rather there are other competitive products which may be better priced. In reading the description on AquaCleanse which is the name on his tap water treatment and it says it also detoxifies ammonia so I'm guessing it's similar to SeaChem's Prime. You'll have to compare the prices and dosaging to find which is better priced if you needed this type of product. For dechlor and heavy metal treatment, I find that API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are the best bargains out there for me. They both only need 1ml per 10G where many of the other products need 5ml or 10ml per 10G. I see that Dr. Tim's AquaCleanse needs 5ml per 10G. Given this, it would have to be 1/5th the price or you would get 5X's more for the same price to make this competitive with the two products I just mentioned. I usually buy at least a 16 oz. bottle of the API or TopFin to get a better price per ounce and it lasts me a while. Now.. to your cycling questions... There's no way to give you an exact timeline on how long it will take to fully cycle a tank.. especially when cycling with fish.. but it will usually take 4-8 weeks. Seeding the new tank with some cycled filter media will speed things up but it depends on the bioload in the new tank compared to the amount of bacteria you transfer, your water parameters also (O2 levels, temperature, etc.). As an example, if you have 10 fish in a cycled tank and you take 10% of the filter media and put it in the new tank, it would be instantly cycled for one fish. If you add ten fish to the new tank, it will only be 10% cycled. There are far too many other variables to go over here. Now.. back to the One And Only. You mention a 125G tank. Will you be fully stocking it on day one? Or were you hoping to fully stock it on day one.. or just adding some fish? If you were only adding a few fish on day one, then a 2 oz. bottle would cycle the tank for that bioload and then each time you add more fish, you could add a little more One And Only or just work your way through the ensuing mini-cycle that happens with each increase in the bioload. I see on Dr. Tim's site that an 8 oz. bottle of One And Only will instantly cycle 120G but that's for a full bioload of juvenile fish. Were you planning on adding full grown fish or juvenile fish? What kind of fish and how many? Unfortunately, due to trying to sell product in a competitive marketplace, he also has the recommendation to add One And Only after each PWC but this simply is not needed. The recommendation to add it after medical treatments could be applicable if the medicine was the type that might kill off some/all of the nitrifying bacteria. All of the other Bottle Bacterias also have this recommendation. The thing they should have is to add some when ever someone throws away their filter cartridge every month, for folks that follow that bad advice. Now that would be a good use of One And Only if people do not want to clean their filters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was because I will need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at least 4 of the 2 oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS sells for 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not sure what the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz bottles are going to cost me over 60 dollars basically (without shipping). I didn't really want to spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a tank cycle if I take out some of my carbon from my cycled filter and put it into the new filter? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like > many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work as advertised... > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax Fresh > is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over 2 billion > live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, > using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that the > correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter bacteria > which were thought, for several years, to be the right ones... > weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other noted scientists reviewed Dr. > Tim's > work and found it to be correct. > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate levels, > for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but you see > that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second stage of the > nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the correct > bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying to > get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new and > correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the original > Bio-Spira. > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and Marineland.. > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which point, > you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria products to > compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart (formerly > Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see many > more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these products > will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. Tim's...", etc. > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the original > patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but that product > had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced products that Dr. > Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents pending > that will last another ten years so any competitor's products will > have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by Dr. Tim or Tetra. > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated although I > did see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on the DFS site > but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs > http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > does not say anything about refrigerating it before or after opening it. > > I'm sure since Bio-Spira first came out, other companies have been > working on replicating the process without violating any patents so > there will be viable competitors... I'm just not sure if this is one > of them. Try Googling to find a few people that have actually used > this to start up a brand new aquarium so that it is fully cycled on > day one. In all the threads that I've looked at on this product, > nobody has done it yet. This has been done time and time again with Bio-Spira. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > Okay so other than the 2 cory's I didn't have any other casualties (so > far at least). The ammonia bloom (cloudiness) also went away over > night after cleaning the filter, so I would assume that my > procrastination is what caused the little fiasco ;) I am going to keep > an eye on things for a little while before I replace the cory's, to > make sure the tank doesn't do anything else I don't want it to ;) > hehe. > > Also, I have used Nitromax Fresh (the one for freshwater tanks) in the > past, it states that it has more nitrifying bacteria than any other > product (over > 2 billion per ounce). Now my question is, does anyone else use this > product and what are your opinions on it? I noticed that it definately > reduced my initial cycle time but I was wondering how it compares to > Dr Tim's One and Only. It's way cheaper than the one and only, and is > also on sale right now at Drsfostersmith.com. It's also one that needs > to be kept cold like the One and Only, so I would assume it shouldn't > be much different, but I'm not an expert either ;) > > Thanks, > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 11:03:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33362	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus problem

Water quality issues are the number one cause of fish health problems. Using meds is helpful (and necessary in many cases) but if you do not find and fix the cause, the problem will just come back. Doing just 30% PWC's every 3 to 4 weeks is your likely problem.. unless you only had a couple of fish in the 55G but you list a lot more than a couple. For a fully stocked tank, I strongly recommend at least weekly 25% PWC's, vacuuming the gravel well, proper filter maintenance (see my blog article), etc... to keep the water quality in fair condition. The heavier the bioload, the more frequent 25% PWC's and other tank maintenance. For a light bioload, you could go bi-weekly. What are your tank water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature, GH and KH.. or any of these that you do have? How many of each type of fish do you have? This is so we can try to establish your bioload for what kind of tank maintenance you will need. Give us more details on your tank. How long have you had it set up? What kind of filter(s) do you have? Etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fungus problem I have a 55 gal fresh water aquarium. For the last several months I have been having a problem with fish having body fungus, eye fungus (with pop eye) and general sick looking with fins closed and fish laying on the bottom of the tank.There is no sign of ick The only fish this seems to infect are plattys and to a lesser extent guppys. I also have kissing gouramies, silver dollars, black tetras and zebra danios. I have tried several meds but it just won't clear up. I do 30% water changes every 3 or 4 weeks. Do any of you have any suggestions? Jerry Stoper _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 11:16:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33363	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

I was only planning on putting 3 fish into the 125 gallon at first, and maybe later adding others. They are all juvenile fish: 2 angel fish and 1 gold severum (he's about an inch and a half in size right now, maybe going on 2 inches, grows fast). My 55 gallon currently has cycled with the following fish in it: 7 glofish danio's (1" in size approx), 2 dwarf flame gourami's (2 inches), 5 flame tetra's (just under an inch), 1 female betta (3 inches maybe, adult), 1 african dwarf frog, 1 cory cat (about an inch), as well as the 3 fish I plan on moving into the bigger tank. And yes I know it's overstocked, hence why I got the bigger tank ;) I was going to take some of my carbon and put it into the new filter, but I need to work on getting sand in the tank first I suppose, it's going to cost me around 35 dollars a bag (20#'s each), and I'm going to need more than just a few of those ;) Gonna cost a fortune, LOL. My LFS doesn't have a lot of choices in sand for me, bug she did dig up a list for me to look at (there's about 5 of them, and most are for salt water or african cichlids, LOL). I ended up going with the black Eco complete for the planted aquarium, even though the tank probably won't have more than a few plants in it. They can get just basic sand at 28.99 a bag (for 20#'s), I might go with that instead if my budget doesn't have much wiggle room, but I don't know what color it'll be, probably a "tan". Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > The Na is the chemical symbol for Salt... thus Na H20 is Salt Water. ;-) > > All of Dr. Tim's FW products have the trademark "H2O Pure" and his SW > products have the trademark "Na H2O Pure". Since your tank is FW, you'll > want the One And Only for "H2O Pure". > > While I'm a big proponent of One And Only, I realize he also has to sell > other products to support his company but many of his other products > are not > needed or rather there are other competitive products which may be better > priced. > > In reading the description on AquaCleanse which is the name on his tap > water > treatment and it says it also detoxifies ammonia so I'm guessing it's > similar to SeaChem's Prime. You'll have to compare the prices and dosaging > to find which is better priced if you needed this type of product. For > dechlor and heavy metal treatment, I find that API's Tap Water Conditioner > or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are the best bargains out there > for me. > They both only need 1ml per 10G where many of the other products need > 5ml or > 10ml per 10G. I see that Dr. Tim's AquaCleanse needs 5ml per 10G. Given > this, it would have to be 1/5th the price or you would get 5X's more > for the > same price to make this competitive with the two products I just > mentioned. > I usually buy at least a 16 oz. bottle of the API or TopFin to get a > better > price per ounce and it lasts me a while. > > Now.. to your cycling questions... > > There's no way to give you an exact timeline on how long it will take to > fully cycle a tank.. especially when cycling with fish.. but it will > usually > take 4-8 weeks. Seeding the new tank with some cycled filter media will > speed things up but it depends on the bioload in the new tank compared to > the amount of bacteria you transfer, your water parameters also (O2 > levels, > temperature, etc.). As an example, if you have 10 fish in a cycled > tank and > you take 10% of the filter media and put it in the new tank, it would be > instantly cycled for one fish. If you add ten fish to the new tank, it > will > only be 10% cycled. There are far too many other variables to go over > here. > > Now.. back to the One And Only. You mention a 125G tank. Will you be fully > stocking it on day one? Or were you hoping to fully stock it on day one.. > or just adding some fish? If you were only adding a few fish on day one, > then a 2 oz. bottle would cycle the tank for that bioload and then > each time > you add more fish, you could add a little more One And Only or just work > your way through the ensuing mini-cycle that happens with each increase in > the bioload. > > I see on Dr. Tim's site that an 8 oz. bottle of One And Only will > instantly > cycle 120G but that's for a full bioload of juvenile fish. Were you > planning on adding full grown fish or juvenile fish? What kind of fish and > how many? > > Unfortunately, due to trying to sell product in a competitive marketplace, > he also has the recommendation to add One And Only after each PWC but this > simply is not needed. The recommendation to add it after medical > treatments > could be applicable if the medicine was the type that might kill off > some/all of the nitrifying bacteria. All of the other Bottle Bacterias > also > have this recommendation. The thing they should have is to add some when > ever someone throws away their filter cartridge every month, for folks > that > follow that bad advice. Now that would be a good use of One And Only if > people do not want to clean their filters. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was because I will > need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at least 4 of > the 2 > oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS sells for > 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not sure > what > the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz bottles are going > to cost > me over 60 dollars basically (without shipping). I didn't really want to > spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a tank cycle if I take out some > of my carbon from my cycled filter and put it into the new filter? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like > > many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work as > advertised... > > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax Fresh > > is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over 2 billion > > live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) > > > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, > > using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that the > > correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were > > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter bacteria > > which were thought, for several years, to be the right ones... > > weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other noted > scientists reviewed Dr. > > Tim's > > work and found it to be correct. > > > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate levels, > > for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but you see > > that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second stage of the > > nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the correct > > bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying to > > get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new and > > correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the original > > Bio-Spira. > > > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and Marineland.. > > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which point, > > you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria products to > > compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart (formerly > > Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see many > > more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these products > > will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. Tim's...", etc. > > > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the original > > patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but that product > > had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced products that Dr. > > Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents pending > > that will last another ten years so any competitor's products will > > have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by Dr. Tim or Tetra. > > > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated although I > > did see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on the DFS site > > but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs > > http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > > does not say anything about refrigerating it before or after opening it. > > > > I'm sure since Bio-Spira first came out, other companies have been > > working on replicating the process without violating any patents so > > there will be viable competitors... I'm just not sure if this is one > > of them. Try Googling to find a few people that have actually used > > this to start up a brand new aquarium so that it is fully cycled on > > day one. In all the threads that I've looked at on this product, > > nobody has done it yet. This has been done time and time again with > Bio-Spira. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > nitromax > > > > Okay so other than the 2 cory's I didn't have any other casualties (so > > far at least). The ammonia bloom (cloudiness) also went away over > > night after cleaning the filter, so I would assume that my > > procrastination is what caused the little fiasco ;) I am going to keep > > an eye on things for a little while before I replace the cory's, to > > make sure the tank doesn't do anything else I don't want it to ;) > > hehe. > > > > Also, I have used Nitromax Fresh (the one for freshwater tanks) in the > > past, it states that it has more nitrifying bacteria than any other > > product (over > > 2 billion per ounce). Now my question is, does anyone else use this > > product and what are your opinions on it? I noticed that it definately > > reduced my initial cycle time but I was wondering how it compares to > > Dr Tim's One and Only. It's way cheaper than the one and only, and is > > also on sale right now at Drsfostersmith.com. It's also one that needs > > to be kept cold like the One and Only, so I would assume it shouldn't > > be much different, but I'm not an expert either ;) > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 > Tested on: 11/20/2008 11:03:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

OK. If all of your fish are currently in the 55G and you are not buying new fish for the 125G at this time, then your current tank is fully cycled for your current bioload. All you need to do is remove a portion of your filter media from the current tank and put that in the filter of the new tank when you move the fish. Just use a proportional amount. If you are moving 10% of the fish bioload, then move 10% of the media. You'll have to determine this figure based on the size of the fish you are moving in comparison to the rest of the fish. For example, if you had a full sized Angelfish and 49 danio's, then the Angelfish would be more than 50% of the bioload.. probably 70%, not 1/50th of it. Since I can't see the size of your fish, you'll have to estimate the body mass of the fish you are moving as a percentage of the total body mass of all of your fish... and move that proportion of the media. This way, you will not need any of Dr. Tim's One And Only. Tell your LFS that I'm sorry for costing them this sale. ;-) Another option since you may be only moving a few small fish into a much larger water volume, besides moving the carbon, since you mentioned that as something you could move that is cycled, you could also squeeze some of the "juice" from your cycled filter media which will further help to seed the new filter media Sorry.. I don't know what kind of filter media you have.. you'll have to determine the best way to do this. I use either sponges and loose filter floss pads or have them added to my cartridges and reservoirs, in all of my filters, instead of the basic cartridges so I can easily move things around and clean things. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax I was only planning on putting 3 fish into the 125 gallon at first, and maybe later adding others. They are all juvenile fish: 2 angel fish and 1 gold severum (he's about an inch and a half in size right now, maybe going on 2 inches, grows fast). My 55 gallon currently has cycled with the following fish in it: 7 glofish danio's (1" in size approx), 2 dwarf flame gourami's (2 inches), 5 flame tetra's (just under an inch), 1 female betta (3 inches maybe, adult), 1 african dwarf frog, 1 cory cat (about an inch), as well as the 3 fish I plan on moving into the bigger tank. And yes I know it's overstocked, hence why I got the bigger tank ;) I was going to take some of my carbon and put it into the new filter, but I need to work on getting sand in the tank first I suppose, it's going to cost me around 35 dollars a bag (20#'s each), and I'm going to need more than just a few of those ;) Gonna cost a fortune, LOL. My LFS doesn't have a lot of choices in sand for me, bug she did dig up a list for me to look at (there's about 5 of them, and most are for salt water or african cichlids, LOL). I ended up going with the black Eco complete for the planted aquarium, even though the tank probably won't have more than a few plants in it. They can get just basic sand at 28.99 a bag (for 20#'s), I might go with that instead if my budget doesn't have much wiggle room, but I don't know what color it'll be, probably a "tan". Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > The Na is the chemical symbol for Salt... thus Na H20 is Salt Water. > ;-) > > All of Dr. Tim's FW products have the trademark "H2O Pure" and his SW > products have the trademark "Na H2O Pure". Since your tank is FW, > you'll want the One And Only for "H2O Pure". > > While I'm a big proponent of One And Only, I realize he also has to > sell other products to support his company but many of his other > products are not needed or rather there are other competitive products > which may be better priced. > > In reading the description on AquaCleanse which is the name on his tap > water treatment and it says it also detoxifies ammonia so I'm guessing > it's similar to SeaChem's Prime. You'll have to compare the prices and > dosaging to find which is better priced if you needed this type of > product. For dechlor and heavy metal treatment, I find that API's Tap > Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are the best > bargains out there for me. > They both only need 1ml per 10G where many of the other products need > 5ml or 10ml per 10G. I see that Dr. Tim's AquaCleanse needs 5ml per > 10G. Given this, it would have to be 1/5th the price or you would get > 5X's more for the same price to make this competitive with the two > products I just mentioned. > I usually buy at least a 16 oz. bottle of the API or TopFin to get a > better price per ounce and it lasts me a while. > > Now.. to your cycling questions... > > There's no way to give you an exact timeline on how long it will take > to fully cycle a tank.. especially when cycling with fish.. but it > will usually take 4-8 weeks. Seeding the new tank with some cycled > filter media will speed things up but it depends on the bioload in the > new tank compared to the amount of bacteria you transfer, your water > parameters also (O2 levels, temperature, etc.). As an example, if you > have 10 fish in a cycled tank and you take 10% of the filter media and > put it in the new tank, it would be instantly cycled for one fish. If > you add ten fish to the new tank, it will only be 10% cycled. There > are far too many other variables to go over here. > > Now.. back to the One And Only. You mention a 125G tank. Will you be > fully stocking it on day one? Or were you hoping to fully stock it on day one.. > or just adding some fish? If you were only adding a few fish on day > one, then a 2 oz. bottle would cycle the tank for that bioload and > then each time you add more fish, you could add a little more One And > Only or just work your way through the ensuing mini-cycle that happens > with each increase in the bioload. > > I see on Dr. Tim's site that an 8 oz. bottle of One And Only will > instantly cycle 120G but that's for a full bioload of juvenile fish. > Were you planning on adding full grown fish or juvenile fish? What > kind of fish and how many? > > Unfortunately, due to trying to sell product in a competitive > marketplace, he also has the recommendation to add One And Only after > each PWC but this simply is not needed. The recommendation to add it > after medical treatments could be applicable if the medicine was the > type that might kill off some/all of the nitrifying bacteria. All of > the other Bottle Bacterias also have this recommendation. The thing > they should have is to add some when ever someone throws away their > filter cartridge every month, for folks that follow that bad advice. > Now that would be a good use of One And Only if people do not want to > clean their filters. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was because I > will need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at least > 4 of the 2 oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS sells > for > 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not sure > what the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz bottles are > going to cost me over 60 dollars basically (without shipping). I > didn't really want to spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a > tank cycle if I take out some of my carbon from my cycled filter and > put it into the new filter? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like > > many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work as > advertised... > > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax Fresh > > is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over 2 > > billion live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) > > > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, > > using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that > > the correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were > > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter bacteria > > which were thought, for several years, to be the right ones... > > weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other > > noted > scientists reviewed Dr. > > Tim's > > work and found it to be correct. > > > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate > > levels, for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but > > you see that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second stage > > of the nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the > > correct bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying to > > get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new and > > correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the original > > Bio-Spira. > > > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and Marineland.. > > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which > > point, you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria products > > to compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart (formerly > > Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see many > > more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these products > > will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. Tim's...", etc. > > > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the original > > patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but that > > product had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced products that Dr. > > Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents pending > > that will last another ten years so any competitor's products will > > have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by Dr. Tim or Tetra. > > > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated although > > I did see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on the DFS > > site but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs > > http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> >> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> >> > > > does not say anything about refrigerating it before or after opening it. > > > > I'm sure since Bio-Spira first came out, other companies have been > > working on replicating the process without violating any patents so > > there will be viable competitors... I'm just not sure if this is one > > of them. Try Googling to find a few people that have actually used > > this to start up a brand new aquarium so that it is fully cycled on > > day one. In all the threads that I've looked at on this product, > > nobody has done it yet. This has been done time and time again with > Bio-Spira. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > nitromax > > > > Okay so other than the 2 cory's I didn't have any other casualties > > (so far at least). The ammonia bloom (cloudiness) also went away > > over night after cleaning the filter, so I would assume that my > > procrastination is what caused the little fiasco ;) I am going to > > keep an eye on things for a little while before I replace the > > cory's, to make sure the tank doesn't do anything else I don't want > > it to ;) hehe. > > > > Also, I have used Nitromax Fresh (the one for freshwater tanks) in > > the past, it states that it has more nitrifying bacteria than any > > other product (over > > 2 billion per ounce). Now my question is, does anyone else use this > > product and what are your opinions on it? I noticed that it > > definately reduced my initial cycle time but I was wondering how it > > compares to Dr Tim's One and Only. It's way cheaper than the one and > > only, and is also on sale right now at Drsfostersmith.com. It's also > > one that needs to be kept cold like the One and Only, so I would > > assume it shouldn't be much different, but I'm not an expert either > > ;) > > > > Thanks, > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 11:40:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33365	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

My angel's are the biggest fish in my tank, they're about 3 1/2 inches I would guess. I was going to take out about a 1/4 of the carbon from my magnum 350 and put it into the new filter, along with new media. But I also need to figure out what kind of filter I will have on the new tank, as I haven't even seen it, LOL. All I know is that it comes with one ;) Let's hope it's more user friendly than my current filter ;). I will know what all I will be getting tomorrow evening after work when I go pick up the tank, I'll make sure to let you guys know ;) hehe. I'm mostly excited to get the python gravel cleaner system, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. If all of your fish are currently in the 55G and you are not > buying new > fish for the 125G at this time, then your current tank is fully cycled for > your current bioload. > > All you need to do is remove a portion of your filter media from the > current > tank and put that in the filter of the new tank when you move the fish. > Just use a proportional amount. If you are moving 10% of the fish bioload, > then move 10% of the media. You'll have to determine this figure based on > the size of the fish you are moving in comparison to the rest of the fish. > For example, if you had a full sized Angelfish and 49 danio's, then the > Angelfish would be more than 50% of the bioload.. probably 70%, not 1/50th > of it. Since I can't see the size of your fish, you'll have to > estimate the > body mass of the fish you are moving as a percentage of the total body > mass > of all of your fish... and move that proportion of the media. This > way, you > will not need any of Dr. Tim's One And Only. Tell your LFS that I'm sorry > for costing them this sale. ;-) > > Another option since you may be only moving a few small fish into a much > larger water volume, besides moving the carbon, since you mentioned > that as > something you could move that is cycled, you could also squeeze some > of the > "juice" from your cycled filter media which will further help to seed the > new filter media Sorry.. I don't know what kind of filter media you have.. > you'll have to determine the best way to do this. I use either sponges and > loose filter floss pads or have them added to my cartridges and > reservoirs, > in all of my filters, instead of the basic cartridges so I can easily move > things around and clean things. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > I was only planning on putting 3 fish into the 125 gallon at first, and > maybe later adding others. They are all juvenile fish: 2 angel fish and > 1 gold severum (he's about an inch and a half in size right now, maybe > going > on 2 inches, grows fast). > My 55 gallon currently has cycled with the following fish in it: 7 glofish > danio's (1" in size approx), 2 dwarf flame gourami's (2 inches), > 5 flame tetra's (just under an inch), 1 female betta (3 inches maybe, > adult), 1 african dwarf frog, 1 cory cat (about an inch), as well as the > 3 fish I plan on moving into the bigger tank. And yes I know it's > overstocked, hence why I got the bigger tank ;) I was going to take > some of > my carbon and put it into the new filter, but I need to work on > getting sand > in the tank first I suppose, it's going to cost me around 35 dollars a bag > (20#'s each), and I'm going to need more than just a few of those ;) Gonna > cost a fortune, LOL. My LFS doesn't have a lot of choices in sand for me, > bug she did dig up a list for me to look at (there's about 5 of them, and > most are for salt water or african cichlids, LOL). I ended up going > with the > black Eco complete for the planted aquarium, even though the tank probably > won't have more than a few plants in it. They can get just basic sand at > 28.99 a bag (for 20#'s), I might go with that instead if my budget doesn't > have much wiggle room, but I don't know what color it'll be, probably a > "tan". > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > The Na is the chemical symbol for Salt... thus Na H20 is Salt Water. > > ;-) > > > > All of Dr. Tim's FW products have the trademark "H2O Pure" and his SW > > products have the trademark "Na H2O Pure". Since your tank is FW, > > you'll want the One And Only for "H2O Pure". > > > > While I'm a big proponent of One And Only, I realize he also has to > > sell other products to support his company but many of his other > > products are not needed or rather there are other competitive products > > which may be better priced. > > > > In reading the description on AquaCleanse which is the name on his tap > > water treatment and it says it also detoxifies ammonia so I'm guessing > > it's similar to SeaChem's Prime. You'll have to compare the prices and > > dosaging to find which is better priced if you needed this type of > > product. For dechlor and heavy metal treatment, I find that API's Tap > > Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are the best > > bargains out there for me. > > They both only need 1ml per 10G where many of the other products need > > 5ml or 10ml per 10G. I see that Dr. Tim's AquaCleanse needs 5ml per > > 10G. Given this, it would have to be 1/5th the price or you would get > > 5X's more for the same price to make this competitive with the two > > products I just mentioned. > > I usually buy at least a 16 oz. bottle of the API or TopFin to get a > > better price per ounce and it lasts me a while. > > > > Now.. to your cycling questions... > > > > There's no way to give you an exact timeline on how long it will take > > to fully cycle a tank.. especially when cycling with fish.. but it > > will usually take 4-8 weeks. Seeding the new tank with some cycled > > filter media will speed things up but it depends on the bioload in the > > new tank compared to the amount of bacteria you transfer, your water > > parameters also (O2 levels, temperature, etc.). As an example, if you > > have 10 fish in a cycled tank and you take 10% of the filter media and > > put it in the new tank, it would be instantly cycled for one fish. If > > you add ten fish to the new tank, it will only be 10% cycled. There > > are far too many other variables to go over here. > > > > Now.. back to the One And Only. You mention a 125G tank. Will you be > > fully stocking it on day one? Or were you hoping to fully stock it > on day > one.. > > or just adding some fish? If you were only adding a few fish on day > > one, then a 2 oz. bottle would cycle the tank for that bioload and > > then each time you add more fish, you could add a little more One And > > Only or just work your way through the ensuing mini-cycle that happens > > with each increase in the bioload. > > > > I see on Dr. Tim's site that an 8 oz. bottle of One And Only will > > instantly cycle 120G but that's for a full bioload of juvenile fish. > > Were you planning on adding full grown fish or juvenile fish? What > > kind of fish and how many? > > > > Unfortunately, due to trying to sell product in a competitive > > marketplace, he also has the recommendation to add One And Only after > > each PWC but this simply is not needed. The recommendation to add it > > after medical treatments could be applicable if the medicine was the > > type that might kill off some/all of the nitrifying bacteria. All of > > the other Bottle Bacterias also have this recommendation. The thing > > they should have is to add some when ever someone throws away their > > filter cartridge every month, for folks that follow that bad advice. > > Now that would be a good use of One And Only if people do not want to > > clean their filters. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:36 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > nitromax > > > > The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was because I > > will need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at least > > 4 of the 2 oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS sells > > for > > 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not sure > > what the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz bottles are > > going to cost me over 60 dollars basically (without shipping). I > > didn't really want to spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a > > tank cycle if I take out some of my carbon from my cycled filter and > > put it into the new filter? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like > > > many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work as > > advertised... > > > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax Fresh > > > is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over 2 > > > billion live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) > > > > > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, > > > using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that > > > the correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were > > > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter bacteria > > > which were thought, for several years, to be the right ones... > > > weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other > > > noted > > scientists reviewed Dr. > > > Tim's > > > work and found it to be correct. > > > > > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate > > > levels, for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but > > > you see that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second stage > > > of the nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the > > > correct bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > > > > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying to > > > get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new and > > > correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the original > > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and > Marineland.. > > > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which > > > point, you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria products > > > to compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart (formerly > > > Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see many > > > more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these products > > > will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. Tim's...", etc. > > > > > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the original > > > patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but that > > > product had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced products > that > Dr. > > > Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents pending > > > that will last another ten years so any competitor's products will > > > have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by Dr. Tim or Tetra. > > > > > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated although > > > I did see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on the DFS > > > site but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs > > > http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> >> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> >> > > > > does not say anything about refrigerating it before or after > opening it. > > > > > > I'm sure since Bio-Spira first came out, other companies have been > > > working on replicating the process without violating any patents so > > > there will be viable competitors... I'm just not sure if this is one > > > of them. Try Googling to find a few people that have actually used > > > this to start up a brand new aquarium so that it is fully cycled on > > > day one. In all the threads that I've looked at on this product, > > > nobody has done it yet. This has been done time and time again with > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:11 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > > nitromax > > > > > > Okay so other than the 2 cory's I didn't have any other casualties > > > (so far at least). The ammonia bloom (cloudiness) also went away > > > over night after cleaning the filter, so I would assume that my > > > procrastination is what caused the little fiasco ;) I am going to > > > keep an eye on things for a little while before I replace the > > > cory's, to make sure the tank doesn't do anything else I don't want > > > it to ;) hehe. > > > > > > Also, I have used Nitromax Fresh (the one for freshwater tanks) in > > > the past, it states that it has more nitrifying bacteria than any > > > other product (over > > > 2 billion per ounce). Now my question is, does anyone else use this > > > product and what are your opinions on it? I noticed that it > > > definately reduced my initial cycle time but I was wondering how it > > > compares to Dr Tim's One and Only. It's way cheaper than the one and > > > only, and is also on sale right now at Drsfostersmith.com. It's also > > > one that needs to be kept cold like the One and Only, so I would > > > assume it shouldn't be much different, but I'm not an expert either > > > ;) > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 > Tested on: 11/20/2008 11:40:49 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33366	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

I'm not sure if 1/4th of the carbon is enough or not. While carbon does have a lot of surface area, it's primary purpose is not for growing nitrifying bacteria but it will certainly have some. Doesn't the Magnum 350 also connect to an HOB Bio-Wheel housing? The actual Bio-Wheel will house the majority of the nitrifying bacteria in this filter system but the rest of the media will also have some. If it was me, I'd probably move ALL of the carbon to the new tanks filter reservoir so you are sure to transfer enough nitrifying bacteria. You'll have to leave it there for several weeks until the new filter media is growing sufficient colonies. Then when you remove it, check your ammonia/nitrite for a few days after to make sure things are OK. BTW... what's not user friendly on the Magnum 350? This article implies it's easy to maintain. http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm And you'll definitely need a Python with a 55G and a 125G... or you'll have some really big biceps from lifting all them 5G buckets. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax My angel's are the biggest fish in my tank, they're about 3 1/2 inches I would guess. I was going to take out about a 1/4 of the carbon from my magnum 350 and put it into the new filter, along with new media. But I also need to figure out what kind of filter I will have on the new tank, as I haven't even seen it, LOL. All I know is that it comes with one ;) Let's hope it's more user friendly than my current filter ;). I will know what all I will be getting tomorrow evening after work when I go pick up the tank, I'll make sure to let you guys know ;) hehe. I'm mostly excited to get the python gravel cleaner system, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. If all of your fish are currently in the 55G and you are not > buying new fish for the 125G at this time, then your current tank is > fully cycled for your current bioload. > > All you need to do is remove a portion of your filter media from the > current tank and put that in the filter of the new tank when you move > the fish. > Just use a proportional amount. If you are moving 10% of the fish > bioload, then move 10% of the media. You'll have to determine this > figure based on the size of the fish you are moving in comparison to the rest of the fish. > For example, if you had a full sized Angelfish and 49 danio's, then > the Angelfish would be more than 50% of the bioload.. probably 70%, > not 1/50th of it. Since I can't see the size of your fish, you'll have > to estimate the body mass of the fish you are moving as a percentage > of the total body mass of all of your fish... and move that proportion > of the media. This way, you will not need any of Dr. Tim's One And > Only. Tell your LFS that I'm sorry for costing them this sale. ;-) > > Another option since you may be only moving a few small fish into a > much larger water volume, besides moving the carbon, since you > mentioned that as something you could move that is cycled, you could > also squeeze some of the "juice" from your cycled filter media which > will further help to seed the new filter media Sorry.. I don't know > what kind of filter media you have.. > you'll have to determine the best way to do this. I use either sponges > and loose filter floss pads or have them added to my cartridges and > reservoirs, in all of my filters, instead of the basic cartridges so I > can easily move things around and clean things. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > I was only planning on putting 3 fish into the 125 gallon at first, > and maybe later adding others. They are all juvenile fish: 2 angel > fish and > 1 gold severum (he's about an inch and a half in size right now, maybe > going on 2 inches, grows fast). > My 55 gallon currently has cycled with the following fish in it: 7 > glofish danio's (1" in size approx), 2 dwarf flame gourami's (2 > inches), > 5 flame tetra's (just under an inch), 1 female betta (3 inches maybe, > adult), 1 african dwarf frog, 1 cory cat (about an inch), as well as > the > 3 fish I plan on moving into the bigger tank. And yes I know it's > overstocked, hence why I got the bigger tank ;) I was going to take > some of my carbon and put it into the new filter, but I need to work > on getting sand in the tank first I suppose, it's going to cost me > around 35 dollars a bag (20#'s each), and I'm going to need more than > just a few of those ;) Gonna cost a fortune, LOL. My LFS doesn't have > a lot of choices in sand for me, bug she did dig up a list for me to > look at (there's about 5 of them, and most are for salt water or > african cichlids, LOL). I ended up going with the black Eco complete > for the planted aquarium, even though the tank probably won't have > more than a few plants in it. They can get just basic sand at > 28.99 a bag (for 20#'s), I might go with that instead if my budget > doesn't have much wiggle room, but I don't know what color it'll be, > probably a "tan". > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > The Na is the chemical symbol for Salt... thus Na H20 is Salt Water. > > ;-) > > > > All of Dr. Tim's FW products have the trademark "H2O Pure" and his > > SW products have the trademark "Na H2O Pure". Since your tank is FW, > > you'll want the One And Only for "H2O Pure". > > > > While I'm a big proponent of One And Only, I realize he also has to > > sell other products to support his company but many of his other > > products are not needed or rather there are other competitive > > products which may be better priced. > > > > In reading the description on AquaCleanse which is the name on his > > tap water treatment and it says it also detoxifies ammonia so I'm > > guessing it's similar to SeaChem's Prime. You'll have to compare the > > prices and dosaging to find which is better priced if you needed > > this type of product. For dechlor and heavy metal treatment, I find > > that API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator > > are the best bargains out there for me. > > They both only need 1ml per 10G where many of the other products > > need 5ml or 10ml per 10G. I see that Dr. Tim's AquaCleanse needs 5ml > > per 10G. Given this, it would have to be 1/5th the price or you > > would get 5X's more for the same price to make this competitive with > > the two products I just mentioned. > > I usually buy at least a 16 oz. bottle of the API or TopFin to get a > > better price per ounce and it lasts me a while. > > > > Now.. to your cycling questions... > > > > There's no way to give you an exact timeline on how long it will > > take to fully cycle a tank.. especially when cycling with fish.. but > > it will usually take 4-8 weeks. Seeding the new tank with some > > cycled filter media will speed things up but it depends on the > > bioload in the new tank compared to the amount of bacteria you > > transfer, your water parameters also (O2 levels, temperature, etc.). > > As an example, if you have 10 fish in a cycled tank and you take 10% > > of the filter media and put it in the new tank, it would be > > instantly cycled for one fish. If you add ten fish to the new tank, > > it will only be 10% cycled. There are far too many other variables to go over here. > > > > Now.. back to the One And Only. You mention a 125G tank. Will you be > > fully stocking it on day one? Or were you hoping to fully stock it > on day > one.. > > or just adding some fish? If you were only adding a few fish on day > > one, then a 2 oz. bottle would cycle the tank for that bioload and > > then each time you add more fish, you could add a little more One > > And Only or just work your way through the ensuing mini-cycle that > > happens with each increase in the bioload. > > > > I see on Dr. Tim's site that an 8 oz. bottle of One And Only will > > instantly cycle 120G but that's for a full bioload of juvenile fish. > > Were you planning on adding full grown fish or juvenile fish? What > > kind of fish and how many? > > > > Unfortunately, due to trying to sell product in a competitive > > marketplace, he also has the recommendation to add One And Only > > after each PWC but this simply is not needed. The recommendation to > > add it after medical treatments could be applicable if the medicine > > was the type that might kill off some/all of the nitrifying > > bacteria. All of the other Bottle Bacterias also have this > > recommendation. The thing they should have is to add some when ever > > someone throws away their filter cartridge every month, for folks that follow that bad advice. > > Now that would be a good use of One And Only if people do not want > > to clean their filters. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:36 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question > > about nitromax > > > > The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was because I > > will need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at > > least > > 4 of the 2 oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS > > sells for > > 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not > > sure what the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz bottles > > are going to cost me over 60 dollars basically (without shipping). I > > didn't really want to spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a > > tank cycle if I take out some of my carbon from my cycled filter and > > put it into the new filter? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like > > > many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work > > > as > > advertised... > > > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax > > > Fresh is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over > > > 2 billion live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) > > > > > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, > > > using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that > > > the correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were > > > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter > > > bacteria which were thought, for several years, to be the right ones... > > > weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other > > > noted > > scientists reviewed Dr. > > > Tim's > > > work and found it to be correct. > > > > > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate > > > levels, for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but > > > you see that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second stage > > > of the nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the > > > correct bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > > > > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying > > > to get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new > > > and correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the original > > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and > Marineland.. > > > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which > > > point, you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria > > > products to compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart > > > (formerly > > > Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see > > > many more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these > > > products will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. Tim's...", etc. > > > > > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the > > > original patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but > > > that product had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced > > > products > that > Dr. > > > Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents > > > pending that will last another ten years so any competitor's > > > products will have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by Dr. Tim or Tetra. > > > > > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated > > > although I did see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on > > > the DFS site but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs > > > http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> >> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> >> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> >> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> >> > >> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> >> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> >> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> >> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> >> > >> > > > > does not say anything about refrigerating it before or after > opening it. > > > > > > I'm sure since Bio-Spira first came out, other companies have been > > > working on replicating the process without violating any patents > > > so there will be viable competitors... I'm just not sure if this > > > is one of them. Try Googling to find a few people that have > > > actually used this to start up a brand new aquarium so that it is > > > fully cycled on day one. In all the threads that I've looked at on > > > this product, nobody has done it yet. This has been done time and > > > time again with > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:11 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > > nitromax > > > > > > Okay so other than the 2 cory's I didn't have any other casualties > > > (so far at least). The ammonia bloom (cloudiness) also went away > > > over night after cleaning the filter, so I would assume that my > > > procrastination is what caused the little fiasco ;) I am going to > > > keep an eye on things for a little while before I replace the > > > cory's, to make sure the tank doesn't do anything else I don't > > > want it to ;) hehe. > > > > > > Also, I have used Nitromax Fresh (the one for freshwater tanks) in > > > the past, it states that it has more nitrifying bacteria than any > > > other product (over > > > 2 billion per ounce). Now my question is, does anyone else use > > > this product and what are your opinions on it? I noticed that it > > > definately reduced my initial cycle time but I was wondering how > > > it compares to Dr Tim's One and Only. It's way cheaper than the > > > one and only, and is also on sale right now at Drsfostersmith.com. > > > It's also one that needs to be kept cold like the One and Only, so > > > I would assume it shouldn't be much different, but I'm not an > > > expert either > > > ;) > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 > 11:40:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:06:43 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:46:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33367	From: Lisa	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants

Thanks for the link Lenny I looked through all the catagories and came away with a list nearly an entire A4 sheet of paper. lol. Including low light, easy, rooted plants. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33368	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/20/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants

Now you just have to hope they'll grow upside down... down there. ;-) I did have to look up "A4 paper", out of curiosity, and I see it's a little smaller than our standard letter size paper up here. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Live Plants Thanks for the link Lenny I looked through all the catagories and came away with a list nearly an entire A4 sheet of paper. lol. Including low light, easy, rooted plants. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 1:42:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33369	From: Chris	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

Once the nitrite goes to zero it is cycled right? I don't have a zero reading on ammonia (between .25 and .5), but I do have a zero reading on nitrites

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33370	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

Both ammonia and nitrite would be 0 when your cycle is established. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? Once the nitrite goes to zero it is cycled right? I don't have a zero reading on ammonia (between .25 and .5), but I do have a zero reading on nitrites ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33371	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

I don't understand. How can I have a zero nitrite when I still have an ammonia reading? ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:47:37 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? Both ammonia and nitrite would be 0 when your cycle is established. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? Once the nitrite goes to zero it is cycled right? I don't have a zero reading on ammonia (between .25 and .5), but I do have a zero reading on nitrites ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33372	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

It means there is a problem that has to be identified and fixed. By the time your nitrite is zero, you should have a well developed bacteria colony to deal with 100% of the ammonia. So, either the ammonia guys have been injured in some way, or ammonia continues to grow beyond the original bioload. Have you added fish? Overfeeding or dead fish hidden somewhere? You need to find the source of the additional ammonia. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? I don't understand. How can I have a zero nitrite when I still have an ammonia reading? ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:47:37 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? Both ammonia and nitrite would be 0 when your cycle is established. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? Once the nitrite goes to zero it is cycled right? I don't have a zero reading on ammonia (between .25 and .5), but I do have a zero reading on nitrites ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33373	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Hi Ray, � I too was most interested in your �History� lessens.� But I must ask a personal question here? <grin>.� Did you write that material up based on research from the Internet or was the material actually based on �Rays Personal Experience�?� Why am I asking?� Well I don�t know how old Ray is, but I do know how old Bill is and when you start talking about the old box filters and Danner & Supreme air pumps and filter boxes, I could member my Mom cursing under her breath trying to get a siphon started for those filters.� � I remember also that they had a small t-joint in the bottom portion of the return plastic tubing loop.� At this joint and air-line was plugged in and when the siphon was started the air line was used to push�or raise the water back into the tank.� That my friend was m-a-n-y years ago! <big grin>! � As Bob Hope use to say �Thanks For The Memories�! � Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 12:01 AM Joe, Glad to bring back some memories of the days of yor. Some of the newer hobbyists may not necessarily appreciate the history lesson, only as they haven't been there, but it does give insight in that power filters were not always a part of the scene -- just as all- glass tanks were not always the normal "shape of things." Depending on the model (and probably how new it is), some AquaMaster "J" (inlet) tubes are double-wide and can't use just a finger to close off the end. You need to use their specially shaped end cap to seal off these tubes, which can be a royal pain. Better off just buying a few 3/4" round filter tubes; saves a lot of headaches. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jett07002" <jett07002@. ..> wrote: > > > Thanks \\Steve// and Ray for that stroll down memory lane. Brought > back many a happy moment and I read all your comments with a smile of > recognition to the old days. > > I still have one of Danner's "Supreme Dynaflow" pumps. The two piston > jobs. Housing got a little rusty but it still runs. (Keep them > washers oiled!) > > Have three AquaMasters and they are still running, also. Hardest part > about using them is getting the intake "J" tubes to bring the water in > the box. LOL > > Thanks for going through the bother of the history lesson. I enjoyed > reading it. ;O) > > joe t > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve//, No need for any corrections here, but as I've seen the > > first introduction of these new (power) filters first-hand, with them > > I've always found the subject of power filters interesting. With > > your urging I'd be glad to add to this topic. At the time they first > > came on the market, they were nothing short of one of the greatest > > innovations in the aquarium hobby to that date and a refreshingly new > > revolutionary way to filter your aquariums... ....... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33374	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

Chris, I know you don't listen to anything I say but for others reading this... Chris recently posted about how he was dosing the ammonia to 7-8ppm instead of the recommended 4-5ppm. I advised him that dosing the ammonia that high could be detrimental to the fishless cycling and cause the cycle to stall. Maybe... just maybe.. this is what happened to Chris' fishless cycle. It could also be that the KH level has crashed.. which will also stall a cycle. Posting all of the numbers, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and temp would tell us more. For others who might experience this issue, do a 25% PWC, then test your water and re-dose accordingly to get the cycle started again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? I don't understand. How can I have a zero nitrite when I still have an ammonia reading? ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:47:37 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? Both ammonia and nitrite would be 0 when your cycle is established. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? Once the nitrite goes to zero it is cycled right? I don't have a zero reading on ammonia (between .25 and .5), but I do have a zero reading on nitrites ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 7:04:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:28:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33375	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

I have the model before they made the bio-wheel's for them (which is why I hate the darn thing sometimes, as I think they improved it after they added the bio-wheel, hehe). My magnum 350 pro is more like a canister filter only, it sits on the floor and connects to the intake/outake's that hang on the side of the tank. The part that I really hate about it is when you remove the top of the canister to get to the media cartridge, it suctions itself to the lid to the media container inside the canister, so when you remove the top lid you remove both and the carbon goes all over inside the canister, which makes for even more cleanup. I got the fluidized bed filter for biological production since my magnum 350 doesn't have the bio-wheel attachment (and not even sure if I could attach it, may be made differently now from my magnum 350 which is about 10 years old now). And I already have big biceps but I don't think it's from all the bucket hauling that I already do, since I lift packages all day long (I work for Fed Ex) LOL, lifting the buckets is just like another thing for me to pick up and carry ;). My concern is if I take out all of my carbon, wont' my 55 gallon do a big cycle too? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I'm not sure if 1/4th of the carbon is enough or not. While carbon does > have a lot of surface area, it's primary purpose is not for growing > nitrifying bacteria but it will certainly have some. > > Doesn't the Magnum 350 also connect to an HOB Bio-Wheel housing? The > actual > Bio-Wheel will house the majority of the nitrifying bacteria in this > filter > system but the rest of the media will also have some. > > If it was me, I'd probably move ALL of the carbon to the new tanks filter > reservoir so you are sure to transfer enough nitrifying bacteria. You'll > have to leave it there for several weeks until the new filter media is > growing sufficient colonies. Then when you remove it, check your > ammonia/nitrite for a few days after to make sure things are OK. > > BTW... what's not user friendly on the Magnum 350? This article implies > it's easy to maintain. > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm> > > And you'll definitely need a Python with a 55G and a 125G... or you'll > have > some really big biceps from lifting all them 5G buckets. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > My angel's are the biggest fish in my tank, they're about 3 1/2 inches I > would guess. > I was going to take out about a 1/4 of the carbon from my magnum 350 > and put > it into the new filter, along with new media. But I also need to > figure out > what kind of filter I will have on the new tank, as I haven't even > seen it, > LOL. All I know is that it comes with one ;) Let's hope it's more user > friendly than my current filter ;). > I will know what all I will be getting tomorrow evening after work > when I go > pick up the tank, I'll make sure to let you guys know ;) hehe. I'm mostly > excited to get the python gravel cleaner system, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. If all of your fish are currently in the 55G and you are not > > buying new fish for the 125G at this time, then your current tank is > > fully cycled for your current bioload. > > > > All you need to do is remove a portion of your filter media from the > > current tank and put that in the filter of the new tank when you move > > the fish. > > Just use a proportional amount. If you are moving 10% of the fish > > bioload, then move 10% of the media. You'll have to determine this > > figure based on the size of the fish you are moving in comparison to the > rest of the fish. > > For example, if you had a full sized Angelfish and 49 danio's, then > > the Angelfish would be more than 50% of the bioload.. probably 70%, > > not 1/50th of it. Since I can't see the size of your fish, you'll have > > to estimate the body mass of the fish you are moving as a percentage > > of the total body mass of all of your fish... and move that proportion > > of the media. This way, you will not need any of Dr. Tim's One And > > Only. Tell your LFS that I'm sorry for costing them this sale. ;-) > > > > Another option since you may be only moving a few small fish into a > > much larger water volume, besides moving the carbon, since you > > mentioned that as something you could move that is cycled, you could > > also squeeze some of the "juice" from your cycled filter media which > > will further help to seed the new filter media Sorry.. I don't know > > what kind of filter media you have.. > > you'll have to determine the best way to do this. I use either sponges > > and loose filter floss pads or have them added to my cartridges and > > reservoirs, in all of my filters, instead of the basic cartridges so I > > can easily move things around and clean things. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > nitromax > > > > I was only planning on putting 3 fish into the 125 gallon at first, > > and maybe later adding others. They are all juvenile fish: 2 angel > > fish and > > 1 gold severum (he's about an inch and a half in size right now, maybe > > going on 2 inches, grows fast). > > My 55 gallon currently has cycled with the following fish in it: 7 > > glofish danio's (1" in size approx), 2 dwarf flame gourami's (2 > > inches), > > 5 flame tetra's (just under an inch), 1 female betta (3 inches maybe, > > adult), 1 african dwarf frog, 1 cory cat (about an inch), as well as > > the > > 3 fish I plan on moving into the bigger tank. And yes I know it's > > overstocked, hence why I got the bigger tank ;) I was going to take > > some of my carbon and put it into the new filter, but I need to work > > on getting sand in the tank first I suppose, it's going to cost me > > around 35 dollars a bag (20#'s each), and I'm going to need more than > > just a few of those ;) Gonna cost a fortune, LOL. My LFS doesn't have > > a lot of choices in sand for me, bug she did dig up a list for me to > > look at (there's about 5 of them, and most are for salt water or > > african cichlids, LOL). I ended up going with the black Eco complete > > for the planted aquarium, even though the tank probably won't have > > more than a few plants in it. They can get just basic sand at > > 28.99 a bag (for 20#'s), I might go with that instead if my budget > > doesn't have much wiggle room, but I don't know what color it'll be, > > probably a "tan". > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > The Na is the chemical symbol for Salt... thus Na H20 is Salt Water. > > > ;-) > > > > > > All of Dr. Tim's FW products have the trademark "H2O Pure" and his > > > SW products have the trademark "Na H2O Pure". Since your tank is FW, > > > you'll want the One And Only for "H2O Pure". > > > > > > While I'm a big proponent of One And Only, I realize he also has to > > > sell other products to support his company but many of his other > > > products are not needed or rather there are other competitive > > > products which may be better priced. > > > > > > In reading the description on AquaCleanse which is the name on his > > > tap water treatment and it says it also detoxifies ammonia so I'm > > > guessing it's similar to SeaChem's Prime. You'll have to compare the > > > prices and dosaging to find which is better priced if you needed > > > this type of product. For dechlor and heavy metal treatment, I find > > > that API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator > > > are the best bargains out there for me. > > > They both only need 1ml per 10G where many of the other products > > > need 5ml or 10ml per 10G. I see that Dr. Tim's AquaCleanse needs 5ml > > > per 10G. Given this, it would have to be 1/5th the price or you > > > would get 5X's more for the same price to make this competitive with > > > the two products I just mentioned. > > > I usually buy at least a 16 oz. bottle of the API or TopFin to get a > > > better price per ounce and it lasts me a while. > > > > > > Now.. to your cycling questions... > > > > > > There's no way to give you an exact timeline on how long it will > > > take to fully cycle a tank.. especially when cycling with fish.. but > > > it will usually take 4-8 weeks. Seeding the new tank with some > > > cycled filter media will speed things up but it depends on the > > > bioload in the new tank compared to the amount of bacteria you > > > transfer, your water parameters also (O2 levels, temperature, etc.). > > > As an example, if you have 10 fish in a cycled tank and you take 10% > > > of the filter media and put it in the new tank, it would be > > > instantly cycled for one fish. If you add ten fish to the new tank, > > > it will only be 10% cycled. There are far too many other variables > to go > over here. > > > > > > Now.. back to the One And Only. You mention a 125G tank. Will you be > > > fully stocking it on day one? Or were you hoping to fully stock it > > on day > > one.. > > > or just adding some fish? If you were only adding a few fish on day > > > one, then a 2 oz. bottle would cycle the tank for that bioload and > > > then each time you add more fish, you could add a little more One > > > And Only or just work your way through the ensuing mini-cycle that > > > happens with each increase in the bioload. > > > > > > I see on Dr. Tim's site that an 8 oz. bottle of One And Only will > > > instantly cycle 120G but that's for a full bioload of juvenile fish. > > > Were you planning on adding full grown fish or juvenile fish? What > > > kind of fish and how many? > > > > > > Unfortunately, due to trying to sell product in a competitive > > > marketplace, he also has the recommendation to add One And Only > > > after each PWC but this simply is not needed. The recommendation to > > > add it after medical treatments could be applicable if the medicine > > > was the type that might kill off some/all of the nitrifying > > > bacteria. All of the other Bottle Bacterias also have this > > > recommendation. The thing they should have is to add some when ever > > > someone throws away their filter cartridge every month, for folks that > follow that bad advice. > > > Now that would be a good use of One And Only if people do not want > > > to clean their filters. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:36 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question > > > about nitromax > > > > > > The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was because I > > > will need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at > > > least > > > 4 of the 2 oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS > > > sells for > > > 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not > > > sure what the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz bottles > > > are going to cost me over 60 dollars basically (without shipping). I > > > didn't really want to spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a > > > tank cycle if I take out some of my carbon from my cycled filter and > > > put it into the new filter? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like > > > > many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work > > > > as > > > advertised... > > > > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax > > > > Fresh is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over > > > > 2 billion live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, > > > > using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that > > > > the correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were > > > > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter > > > > bacteria which were thought, for several years, to be the right > ones... > > > > weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other > > > > noted > > > scientists reviewed Dr. > > > > Tim's > > > > work and found it to be correct. > > > > > > > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate > > > > levels, for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but > > > > you see that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second stage > > > > of the nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the > > > > correct bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > > > > > > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying > > > > to get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new > > > > and correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the original > > > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and > > Marineland.. > > > > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which > > > > point, you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria > > > > products to compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart > > > > (formerly > > > > Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see > > > > many more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these > > > > products will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. > Tim's...", > etc. > > > > > > > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the > > > > original patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but > > > > that product had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced > > > > products > > that > > Dr. > > > > Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents > > > > pending that will last another ten years so any competitor's > > > > products will have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by > Dr. Tim > or Tetra. > > > > > > > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated > > > > although I did see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on > > > > the DFS site but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs > > > > http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > 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<http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> >> > > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> >> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> >> > > >> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > 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<http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60>> >> > > >> > > > > > does not say anything about refrigerating it before or after > > opening it. > > > > > > > > I'm sure since Bio-Spira first came out, other companies have been > > > > working on replicating the process without violating any patents > > > > so there will be viable competitors... I'm just not sure if this > > > > is one of them. Try Googling to find a few people that have > > > > actually used this to start up a brand new aquarium so that it is > > > > fully cycled on day one. In all the threads that I've looked at on > > > > this product, nobody has done it yet. This has been done time and > > > > time again with > > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > >> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:11 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > > > nitromax > > > > > > > > Okay so other than the 2 cory's I didn't have any other casualties > > > > (so far at least). The ammonia bloom (cloudiness) also went away > > > > over night after cleaning the filter, so I would assume that my > > > > procrastination is what caused the little fiasco ;) I am going to > > > > keep an eye on things for a little while before I replace the > > > > cory's, to make sure the tank doesn't do anything else I don't > > > > want it to ;) hehe. > > > > > > > > Also, I have used Nitromax Fresh (the one for freshwater tanks) in > > > > the past, it states that it has more nitrifying bacteria than any > > > > other product (over > > > > 2 billion per ounce). Now my question is, does anyone else use > > > > this product and what are your opinions on it? I noticed that it > > > > definately reduced my initial cycle time but I was wondering how > > > > it compares to Dr Tim's One and Only. It's way cheaper than the > > > > one and only, and is also on sale right now at Drsfostersmith.com. > > > > It's also one that needs to be kept cold like the One and Only, so > > > > I would assume it shouldn't be much different, but I'm not an > > > > expert either > > > > ;) > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > >> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 > > 11:40:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:06:43 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:46:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33376	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Hi Folks, � I have a question here that I can�t find anywhere on the Internet.� I have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last night. � Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? Charts or links would be most helpful. � I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere.� This tank is 3� Long, 2� high, and 2� wide.� Now the seller did say that the aquarium was made from �� plate glass but I�m thinking to myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty.� Can anyone offer some help here? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33377	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information?

Does anyone in group have an experience at all with the above filter?  How does it work?  Are you happy with it?  A good reliable product?   Any help at all,   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33378	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

No. I dosed once at around that number, myabe twice, and that was on accident. My ph is stable at around 7.8 and I have a clam shell in there to keep the ph and carbonates consistent. I've also been topping off the water level with water that I've saved from my 20 gallon tank which I also use shells in to keep things consistant. I don't have a test for gh or kh yet, but the water temp is 75. Finally If I wanted information from an ass hole I would ask my own [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33379	From: Jerry	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus problem

To start, I have 2 kissing gouramis, 3-3" silver dollars, 3 black tetras, 6 platys. 8 guppys, 3 corys, and the big mess makers, 2-7" plecostomus . The fish store won't take the plecostomus' even for free and I don't have the heart to kill them but they have to go. I have a powerhead with a sponge filter on it instead of being connected to a under gravel filter and a Penguin Biowheel 350. The plecostomus destroy live plants so I just have plastic plants. I have had fish for most of my life and never tested for anything other than PH. Maybe I need to get a testing kit. I tested my PH several years ago and it was neutral. I vacuum the gravel when I do my water changes. This tank has been setup for 5 years and I never had a problem till the past few months. Jerry --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Water quality issues are the number one cause of fish health problems. > Using meds is helpful (and necessary in many cases) but if you do not find > and fix the cause, the problem will just come back. > > Doing just 30% PWC's every 3 to 4 weeks is your likely problem.. unless you > only had a couple of fish in the 55G but you list a lot more than a couple. > > For a fully stocked tank, I strongly recommend at least weekly 25% PWC's, > vacuuming the gravel well, proper filter maintenance (see my blog article), > etc... to keep the water quality in fair condition. The heavier the > bioload, the more frequent 25% PWC's and other tank maintenance. For a > light bioload, you could go bi-weekly. > > What are your tank water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, > temperature, GH and KH.. or any of these that you do have? > > How many of each type of fish do you have? This is so we can try to > establish your bioload for what kind of tank maintenance you will need. > > Give us more details on your tank. How long have you had it set up? What > kind of filter(s) do you have? Etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jerry > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fungus problem > > I have a 55 gal fresh water aquarium. For the last several months I have > been having a problem with fish having body fungus, eye fungus (with pop > eye) and general sick looking with fins closed and fish laying on the bottom > of the tank.There is no sign of ick The only fish this seems to infect are > plattys and to a lesser extent guppys. I also have kissing gouramies, silver > dollars, black tetras and zebra danios. > I have tried several meds but it just won't clear up. I do 30% water changes > every 3 or 4 weeks. > > Do any of you have any suggestions? > > Jerry Stoper > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 > Tested on: 11/20/2008 11:16:36 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33380	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

But wait a little bit after the water change to give the tank settle. If you do the test right after the water change you may get wrong readings. Joey **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33381	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

Well... at the same time you remove the carbon for the new tank, you'll also be removing some of the bioload of the 55G.. the fish you will also be moving to the new tank.. so you shouldn't have much of a mini-cycle on either tank. You have a lot more filter media on the current 55G between the canister and the sand filter.. and all of the other surface areas of the current tank. The carbon might only make up 10% of your total nitrifying bacteria. That's why I said to move it all. Of course, I'm presuming you're moving at least 10% of the fish bioload into the new tank as well. Without me being able to see all your fish and their relative sizes, it's hard for me to know what percentage of the bioload you will be moving. That's something you'll have to estimate and then estimate the same percentage of biofilter media. Your sand filter will have the most biofiltration since that's what it's designed for. Your floss and pleated filter in the canister will have a huge amount also. The carbon will also have some even though that's not the primary purpose of carbon.. but it still has a lot of surface area with microscopic cracks/crevices. All of the other substrate, decorations, glass surfaces, etc., will also be home for nitrifying bacteria. Typically, the filter(s) will have the most since all of the "food" passes by them constantly.. like a "lazy susan" for nitrifying bacteria... so that's where they'll build the biggest colonies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax I have the model before they made the bio-wheel's for them (which is why I hate the darn thing sometimes, as I think they improved it after they added the bio-wheel, hehe). My magnum 350 pro is more like a canister filter only, it sits on the floor and connects to the intake/outake's that hang on the side of the tank. The part that I really hate about it is when you remove the top of the canister to get to the media cartridge, it suctions itself to the lid to the media container inside the canister, so when you remove the top lid you remove both and the carbon goes all over inside the canister, which makes for even more cleanup. I got the fluidized bed filter for biological production since my magnum 350 doesn't have the bio-wheel attachment (and not even sure if I could attach it, may be made differently now from my magnum 350 which is about 10 years old now). And I already have big biceps but I don't think it's from all the bucket hauling that I already do, since I lift packages all day long (I work for Fed Ex) LOL, lifting the buckets is just like another thing for me to pick up and carry ;). My concern is if I take out all of my carbon, wont' my 55 gallon do a big cycle too? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I'm not sure if 1/4th of the carbon is enough or not. While carbon does > have a lot of surface area, it's primary purpose is not for growing > nitrifying bacteria but it will certainly have some. > > Doesn't the Magnum 350 also connect to an HOB Bio-Wheel housing? The > actual > Bio-Wheel will house the majority of the nitrifying bacteria in this > filter > system but the rest of the media will also have some. > > If it was me, I'd probably move ALL of the carbon to the new tanks filter > reservoir so you are sure to transfer enough nitrifying bacteria. You'll > have to leave it there for several weeks until the new filter media is > growing sufficient colonies. Then when you remove it, check your > ammonia/nitrite for a few days after to make sure things are OK. > > BTW... what's not user friendly on the Magnum 350? This article implies > it's easy to maintain. > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm> > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm> > > > > And you'll definitely need a Python with a 55G and a 125G... or you'll > have > some really big biceps from lifting all them 5G buckets. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > My angel's are the biggest fish in my tank, they're about 3 1/2 inches I > would guess. > I was going to take out about a 1/4 of the carbon from my magnum 350 > and put > it into the new filter, along with new media. But I also need to > figure out > what kind of filter I will have on the new tank, as I haven't even > seen it, > LOL. All I know is that it comes with one ;) Let's hope it's more user > friendly than my current filter ;). > I will know what all I will be getting tomorrow evening after work > when I go > pick up the tank, I'll make sure to let you guys know ;) hehe. I'm mostly > excited to get the python gravel cleaner system, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. If all of your fish are currently in the 55G and you are not > > buying new fish for the 125G at this time, then your current tank is > > fully cycled for your current bioload. > > > > All you need to do is remove a portion of your filter media from the > > current tank and put that in the filter of the new tank when you move > > the fish. > > Just use a proportional amount. If you are moving 10% of the fish > > bioload, then move 10% of the media. You'll have to determine this > > figure based on the size of the fish you are moving in comparison to the > rest of the fish. > > For example, if you had a full sized Angelfish and 49 danio's, then > > the Angelfish would be more than 50% of the bioload.. probably 70%, > > not 1/50th of it. Since I can't see the size of your fish, you'll have > > to estimate the body mass of the fish you are moving as a percentage > > of the total body mass of all of your fish... and move that proportion > > of the media. This way, you will not need any of Dr. Tim's One And > > Only. Tell your LFS that I'm sorry for costing them this sale. ;-) > > > > Another option since you may be only moving a few small fish into a > > much larger water volume, besides moving the carbon, since you > > mentioned that as something you could move that is cycled, you could > > also squeeze some of the "juice" from your cycled filter media which > > will further help to seed the new filter media Sorry.. I don't know > > what kind of filter media you have.. > > you'll have to determine the best way to do this. I use either sponges > > and loose filter floss pads or have them added to my cartridges and > > reservoirs, in all of my filters, instead of the basic cartridges so I > > can easily move things around and clean things. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > nitromax > > > > I was only planning on putting 3 fish into the 125 gallon at first, > > and maybe later adding others. They are all juvenile fish: 2 angel > > fish and > > 1 gold severum (he's about an inch and a half in size right now, maybe > > going on 2 inches, grows fast). > > My 55 gallon currently has cycled with the following fish in it: 7 > > glofish danio's (1" in size approx), 2 dwarf flame gourami's (2 > > inches), > > 5 flame tetra's (just under an inch), 1 female betta (3 inches maybe, > > adult), 1 african dwarf frog, 1 cory cat (about an inch), as well as > > the > > 3 fish I plan on moving into the bigger tank. And yes I know it's > > overstocked, hence why I got the bigger tank ;) I was going to take > > some of my carbon and put it into the new filter, but I need to work > > on getting sand in the tank first I suppose, it's going to cost me > > around 35 dollars a bag (20#'s each), and I'm going to need more than > > just a few of those ;) Gonna cost a fortune, LOL. My LFS doesn't have > > a lot of choices in sand for me, bug she did dig up a list for me to > > look at (there's about 5 of them, and most are for salt water or > > african cichlids, LOL). I ended up going with the black Eco complete > > for the planted aquarium, even though the tank probably won't have > > more than a few plants in it. They can get just basic sand at > > 28.99 a bag (for 20#'s), I might go with that instead if my budget > > doesn't have much wiggle room, but I don't know what color it'll be, > > probably a "tan". > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > The Na is the chemical symbol for Salt... thus Na H20 is Salt Water. > > > ;-) > > > > > > All of Dr. Tim's FW products have the trademark "H2O Pure" and his > > > SW products have the trademark "Na H2O Pure". Since your tank is FW, > > > you'll want the One And Only for "H2O Pure". > > > > > > While I'm a big proponent of One And Only, I realize he also has to > > > sell other products to support his company but many of his other > > > products are not needed or rather there are other competitive > > > products which may be better priced. > > > > > > In reading the description on AquaCleanse which is the name on his > > > tap water treatment and it says it also detoxifies ammonia so I'm > > > guessing it's similar to SeaChem's Prime. You'll have to compare the > > > prices and dosaging to find which is better priced if you needed > > > this type of product. For dechlor and heavy metal treatment, I find > > > that API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator > > > are the best bargains out there for me. > > > They both only need 1ml per 10G where many of the other products > > > need 5ml or 10ml per 10G. I see that Dr. Tim's AquaCleanse needs 5ml > > > per 10G. Given this, it would have to be 1/5th the price or you > > > would get 5X's more for the same price to make this competitive with > > > the two products I just mentioned. > > > I usually buy at least a 16 oz. bottle of the API or TopFin to get a > > > better price per ounce and it lasts me a while. > > > > > > Now.. to your cycling questions... > > > > > > There's no way to give you an exact timeline on how long it will > > > take to fully cycle a tank.. especially when cycling with fish.. but > > > it will usually take 4-8 weeks. Seeding the new tank with some > > > cycled filter media will speed things up but it depends on the > > > bioload in the new tank compared to the amount of bacteria you > > > transfer, your water parameters also (O2 levels, temperature, etc.). > > > As an example, if you have 10 fish in a cycled tank and you take 10% > > > of the filter media and put it in the new tank, it would be > > > instantly cycled for one fish. If you add ten fish to the new tank, > > > it will only be 10% cycled. There are far too many other variables > to go > over here. > > > > > > Now.. back to the One And Only. You mention a 125G tank. Will you be > > > fully stocking it on day one? Or were you hoping to fully stock it > > on day > > one.. > > > or just adding some fish? If you were only adding a few fish on day > > > one, then a 2 oz. bottle would cycle the tank for that bioload and > > > then each time you add more fish, you could add a little more One > > > And Only or just work your way through the ensuing mini-cycle that > > > happens with each increase in the bioload. > > > > > > I see on Dr. Tim's site that an 8 oz. bottle of One And Only will > > > instantly cycle 120G but that's for a full bioload of juvenile fish. > > > Were you planning on adding full grown fish or juvenile fish? What > > > kind of fish and how many? > > > > > > Unfortunately, due to trying to sell product in a competitive > > > marketplace, he also has the recommendation to add One And Only > > > after each PWC but this simply is not needed. The recommendation to > > > add it after medical treatments could be applicable if the medicine > > > was the type that might kill off some/all of the nitrifying > > > bacteria. All of the other Bottle Bacterias also have this > > > recommendation. The thing they should have is to add some when ever > > > someone throws away their filter cartridge every month, for folks that > follow that bad advice. > > > Now that would be a good use of One And Only if people do not want > > > to clean their filters. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:36 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question > > > about nitromax > > > > > > The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was because I > > > will need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at > > > least > > > 4 of the 2 oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS > > > sells for > > > 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not > > > sure what the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz bottles > > > are going to cost me over 60 dollars basically (without shipping). I > > > didn't really want to spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a > > > tank cycle if I take out some of my carbon from my cycled filter and > > > put it into the new filter? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like > > > > many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work > > > > as > > > advertised... > > > > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax > > > > Fresh is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over > > > > 2 billion live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, > > > > using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that > > > > the correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were > > > > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter > > > > bacteria which were thought, for several years, to be the right > ones... > > > > weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other > > > > noted > > > scientists reviewed Dr. > > > > Tim's > > > > work and found it to be correct. > > > > > > > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate > > > > levels, for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but > > > > you see that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second stage > > > > of the nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the > > > > correct bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > > > > > > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying > > > > to get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new > > > > and correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the original > > > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and > > Marineland.. > > > > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which > > > > point, you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria > > > > products to compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart > > > > (formerly > > > > Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see > > > > many more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these > > > > products will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. > Tim's...", > etc. > > > > > > > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the > > > > original patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but > > > > that product had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced > > > > products > > that > > Dr. > > > > Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents > > > > pending that will last another ten years so any competitor's > > > > products will have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by > Dr. Tim > or Tetra. > > > > > > > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated > > > > although I did see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on > > > > the DFS site but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs > > > > http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 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<http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > >> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > >> >> > > >> > > > > > does not say anything about refrigerating it before or after > > opening it. > > > > > > > > I'm sure since Bio-Spira first came out, other companies have been > > > > working on replicating the process without violating any patents > > > > so there will be viable competitors... I'm just not sure if this > > > > is one of them. Try Googling to find a few people that have > > > > actually used this to start up a brand new aquarium so that it is > > > > fully cycled on day one. In all the threads that I've looked at on > > > > this product, nobody has done it yet. This has been done time and > > > > time again with > > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33382	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

http://www.alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change depending on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... probably 1/4th the weight when empty. It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe around 150 pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those measurements add up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when full. The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning substrate level plants that require moderate+ lighting. http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/tipsandtables/l/bltanksize.htm has filled weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to get approximate tank weight when empty. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hi Folks, I have a question here that I can’t find anywhere on the Internet. I have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last night. Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? Charts or links would be most helpful. I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This tank is 3’ Long, 2’ high, and 2’ wide. Now the seller did say that the aquarium was made from ¼” plate glass but I’m thinking to myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some help here? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:53:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information?

I have a blog article on this one. I've had it for four years now and not a single problem. For that 90G, you should go with two filter systems for redundancy so the XP2 would be OK for one filter system. If you were only planning on one filter system, then you should step up the XP3 or XP4. I have the XP2 and the Penguin Bio-Wheel 200 on my 65G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information? Does anyone in group have an experience at all with the above filter? How does it work? Are you happy with it? A good reliable product? Any help at all, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:55:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33384	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

Chris, That's why I didn't answer you in my reply. I provided info to everyone else in the group. I saw on that child support forum that you also have issues taking advice from everyone that you ask for help. You did the same thing there that you do here... ask for help and then tell then blame the people trying to help you. Maybe it's not the people trying to help you, but rather the person in the mirror that's the (your curse word). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnson Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? No. I dosed once at around that number, myabe twice, and that was on accident. My ph is stable at around 7.8 and I have a clam shell in there to keep the ph and carbonates consistent. I've also been topping off the water level with water that I've saved from my 20 gallon tank which I also use shells in to keep things consistant. I don't have a test for gh or kh yet, but the water temp is 75. Finally If I wanted information from an ass hole I would ask my own [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:58:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33385	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Fish Keeping Quiz - Try out your skills and knowledge

I just came across this Fish Quiz which was kind of entertaining although I disagreed with the answers (or rather the implication of the correct answer) in the first question. <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm> http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm I missed 4 out of the first 30 questions (3 levels.. beginner, intermediate, advanced). The ones I missed were about fish genus, family, area of origination, etc. ... things I do not try to memorize since they are readily available on the net. See how you do on the first 3 levels! Then there are even more advanced levels after the 3rd level. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 1:13:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33386	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

I changed out the water completely so I can get fresh readings and I noticed that even though I stired as thuroughly as possible, the ammonia reading changed and dropped a few ppm a few minutes later when I retested the water. I'll see in a few hours As a side thought. If nitrifying bacteria come out of the air, why would they die in the filter if water stops moving? ________________________________ From: "joesbirds@..." <joesbirds@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:38:38 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? But wait a little bit after the water change to give the tank settle. If you do the test right after the water change you may get wrong readings. Joey ************ **One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100000075x121296 2939x1200825291/ aol?redir= http://www. aol.com/? optin=new- dp %26icid=aolcom40van ity%26ncid= emlcntaolcom0000 0001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33387	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: euthanize, never mind:

Okay, yes I did see Lenny's post with your's after going back to it. It appears you must have erased that part of his message stating, "In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, GoldLenny@... wrote:" and I did not immediately recognize that part as being his. I also didn't recognize it since it didn't contain his signature (also erased), so I just dismissed it not suspecting they came from him (and didn't see the need to open them again). Yes, I did read the links he provided in his original post. I understand what you're saying about these methods causing more trauma than sleep. In reading your earlier message (of 11/18/08 -- 7:57PM) under the Subject of "help betta on his way out" I noticed one of the excerpts you included with your links stated, "The fish must have access to the surface of the water, since it takes oxygen directly from the atmosphere AS WELL AS THROUGH THE GILLS." This would have told you that Bettas not only use their air breathing organ, but still rely on their gills as well. This would have told you that their breathing from the surface was immaterial when put in context with these euthanizing methods since their effects would still be felt, except that the effects wouldn't be immediate. If this is what you meant by these treatments not working (immediately), I have to agree. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AwlArtist@... wrote: > > Um, Yes, and I did include the message, with the links, stating that I had > read them top to bottom, with intrest, as I have only had to do this a few > times... > Anyway, many people had written in that had been trying to put Betta's down, > and it simply caused more trauma than sleep. > Did you read the 2 sites? > Laura > **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, > and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com > today! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol? redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp > %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33388	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information?

I have had an XP3 for 2 years now and just bought 2 XP4s. Good filters. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:07 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information? Does anyone in group have an experience at all with the above filter? How does it work? Are you happy with it? A good reliable product? Any help at all, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33389	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Fungus problem

OK. You know part of your problem are those TWO BIG PLECO's. Even one of them is much too big for your 55G tank. They should grow to 18"+. As I said in my first reply, water quality problems are likely your main issue. You need to start doing twice weekly 25% PWC's to get and keep your water quality up. Poor water quality and the high hormone levels caused by the infrequent PWC's is causing your fish to experience stress levels that affect their immune systems so they are getting sick much more easily than normal. DO NOT do more than 25% PWC's as that can result in changing the water parameters too much, too fast and cause other stress/health issues to the fish. You should also get a decent Master Test Kit (under $20.00 for either the API or Tetratest-Laborette kits at WalMart and other places) and that $20.00 investment will last more than a year in most cases. While you may not have had problems in the beginning, the fish were much, much smaller then. As the fish grow, they put our more and more waste. For bigger fish.. fish that get over 3" as adults.. and especially those Pleco's... they increase their bioload by eight times for each time they double their length. So when the pleco's reached 2", they had eight times the body mass of when they were 1".. even though only twice as long. Now that they are at 7", they have around 300 times the body mass that they had when they were only an inch long. Technically, what worked for when they were 1" long would have to be increased by 300 times to keep up the exact kinds of clean water conditions. The minimum sized tank for even a single common pleco should be around 75G+ and 6' long. See if your LFS and other pet stores will let you put up a notice on their bulletin board. Also post on your local Craigslist.org in the Pets section, try on your local FreeCycle.org.. although some groups will not let you post live things.. but by the time they take it down, you might find an owner. I rescued a common pleco back in 2005. He was in a 10G tank for two years and was only 4". I put him in my 65G and he grew to 10" in 18 months and was then too big for my 65G. I had to rehome him last year since Hurricane Katrina changed my plans for a 150G tank. My LFS gave me a $25.00 store credit for him and sold him to a 200G tank owner, the next day, for $50.00 so it was a win-win-win for all three of us. Pleco's are eating and pooping machines.. as you know. They'll leave plants alone if they get enough food but if you fed them enough, you'd have tons of pleco poop all over your tank. This is why you need to start doing twice weekly PWC's and gravel vacuuming. The pleco's will start going after your fish.. if they haven't already. This could be another reason why your other fish are stressed out and getting sick.. from running from the plecos all night long while they are supposed to be trying to sleep. Pleco's are far more active at night and do most of their eating then also. Once you get your tank maintenance schedule up to par and/or rehome the plecos, then the fish will start to heal up, either on their own or with help from meds again. Even after you rehome the plecos, you should do at least weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance & Cleaning" for more reasons why this is necessary. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fungus problem To start, I have 2 kissing gouramis, 3-3" silver dollars, 3 black tetras, 6 platys. 8 guppys, 3 corys, and the big mess makers, 2-7" plecostomus . The fish store won't take the plecostomus' even for free and I don't have the heart to kill them but they have to go. I have a powerhead with a sponge filter on it instead of being connected to a under gravel filter and a Penguin Biowheel 350. The plecostomus destroy live plants so I just have plastic plants. I have had fish for most of my life and never tested for anything other than PH. Maybe I need to get a testing kit. I tested my PH several years ago and it was neutral. I vacuum the gravel when I do my water changes. This tank has been setup for 5 years and I never had a problem till the past few months. Jerry --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Water quality issues are the number one cause of fish health problems. > Using meds is helpful (and necessary in many cases) but if you do not find > and fix the cause, the problem will just come back. > > Doing just 30% PWC's every 3 to 4 weeks is your likely problem.. unless you > only had a couple of fish in the 55G but you list a lot more than a couple. > > For a fully stocked tank, I strongly recommend at least weekly 25% PWC's, > vacuuming the gravel well, proper filter maintenance (see my blog article), > etc... to keep the water quality in fair condition. The heavier the > bioload, the more frequent 25% PWC's and other tank maintenance. For a > light bioload, you could go bi-weekly. > > What are your tank water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, > temperature, GH and KH.. or any of these that you do have? > > How many of each type of fish do you have? This is so we can try to > establish your bioload for what kind of tank maintenance you will need. > > Give us more details on your tank. How long have you had it set up? What > kind of filter(s) do you have? Etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Jerry > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fungus problem > > I have a 55 gal fresh water aquarium. For the last several months I have > been having a problem with fish having body fungus, eye fungus (with pop > eye) and general sick looking with fins closed and fish laying on the bottom > of the tank.There is no sign of ick The only fish this seems to infect are > plattys and to a lesser extent guppys. I also have kissing gouramies, silver > dollars, black tetras and zebra danios. > I have tried several meds but it just won't clear up. I do 30% water changes > every 3 or 4 weeks. > > Do any of you have any suggestions? > > Jerry Stoper > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 1:32:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33390	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Thanks Len, � On the money as always.� BUT here's a cut and paste from our old friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder:� "If this is an aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the empty tank is about 200 #".� � Now please note what these folks just said about the glass thickness?� Maybe that's why they are�selling it?�Tank is�"bowing"?� �I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and I've been away from the hobby for a while.� I know a lot was been done with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of water pressure. � I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math and came up at 92.2 gallons.� Neverless the less, a most usual tank.� It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right out�of my reach.� The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would not like that one bit.� I really hate to let this one go. � Bill�� --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change depending on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... probably 1/4th the weight when empty. It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe around 150 pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those measurements add up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when full. The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning substrate level plants that require moderate+ lighting. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has filled weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to get approximate tank weight when empty. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hi Folks, I have a question here that I can�t find anywhere on the Internet. I have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last night. Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? Charts or links would be most helpful. I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This tank is 3� Long, 2� high, and 2� wide. Now the seller did say that the aquarium was made from �� plate glass but I�m thinking to myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some help here? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:53:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33391	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Typically, 24" high sides that are 36" long would have to have a decent thickness but as long as it's framed properly on the top, that should stop bowing although I guess the middle of the pane could bow out a little. It would be more prone to breakage upon something hitting it with thinner glass also... but if it was previously set up as a full aquarium, then it would probably be OK in an adult home. Now if you have kids or grandkids throwing stuff around, it might be worrisome. Couldn't you always make your own stand.. or maybe trim off a couple of inches on each side of the one that comes with it? That's presuming it has a table top type top that extends beyond the base frame. Or you could tell the CEO that the stand will stop that door from getting stuck closed in the event of a fire. lol Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Thanks Len, On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the empty tank is about 200 #". Now please note what these folks just said about the glass thickness? Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and I've been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of water pressure. I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual tank. It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right out of my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would not like that one bit. I really hate to let this one go. Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change depending on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... probably 1/4th the weight when empty. It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe around 150 pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those measurements add up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when full. The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning substrate level plants that require moderate+ lighting. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has filled weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to get approximate tank weight when empty. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hi Folks, I have a question here that I can’t find anywhere on the Internet. I have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last night. Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? Charts or links would be most helpful. I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This tank is 3’ Long, 2’ high, and 2’ wide. Now the seller did say that the aquarium was made from ¼” plate glass but I’m thinking to myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some help here? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:53:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 2:05:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 2:13:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33392	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information?

Old Lessons learned the hard way, buddy! � Len, this filter was offered in a totally different deal and that was the �Y� of the question.� � Also, remember a week or so ago we had a discussion about email in general and Gmail specifically?� � I am learning the hard way on these Internet deal postings for tanks. You have to move fast!� Very fast!� To that end and since I know you always check your Gmail too, it may be more prudent to contact you there so that if you are around, you can help me faster.� All mail here must be checked and rightly so, but that takes longer for approval to posting to group. � Since I don�t have your experience or knowledge; I need these questions answered fast and this appears to be the best way to do it.� I would not know half of what I do even now, if it weren�t for you and the other two �Wise Men�.� (Kinda fits right in with the Holiday Spirit-----don�t it?).� � Also many times in the past,you have been kind enough to offer help when I would send you links to whatever it was I was looking at, at the time.�� The thought stuck me that as these deals come up, it might also be good to send the actual link so you could see what it is am talking about.� Along the lines of one picture a 1000 words type thing!� Have you checked your medicine cabinet lately for your Excedrin supply? � Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Information? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:55 PM I have a blog article on this one. I've had it for four years now and not a single problem. For that 90G, you should go with two filter systems for redundancy so the XP2 would be OK for one filter system. If you were only planning on one filter system, then you should step up the XP3 or XP4. I have the XP2 and the Penguin Bio-Wheel 200 on my 65G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] FilStar XP2 Canister Power Filter---Informatio n? Does anyone in group have an experience at all with the above filter? How does it work? Are you happy with it? A good reliable product? Any help at all, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:55:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33393	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Len, � Someday ---------------when you have the time???� Maybe you can tell me who �writes� your material!� �Tell the CEO----_______!�� Priceless! � Check Gmail? � Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 3:13 PM Typically, 24" high sides that are 36" long would have to have a decent thickness but as long as it's framed properly on the top, that should stop bowing although I guess the middle of the pane could bow out a little. It would be more prone to breakage upon something hitting it with thinner glass also... but if it was previously set up as a full aquarium, then it would probably be OK in an adult home. Now if you have kids or grandkids throwing stuff around, it might be worrisome. Couldn't you always make your own stand.. or maybe trim off a couple of inches on each side of the one that comes with it? That's presuming it has a table top type top that extends beyond the base frame. Or you could tell the CEO that the stand will stop that door from getting stuck closed in the event of a fire. lol Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Thanks Len, On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the empty tank is about 200 #". Now please note what these folks just said about the glass thickness? Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and I've been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of water pressure. I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual tank. It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right out of my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would not like that one bit. I really hate to let this one go. Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change depending on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... probably 1/4th the weight when empty. It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe around 150 pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those measurements add up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when full. The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning substrate level plants that require moderate+ lighting. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has filled weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to get approximate tank weight when empty. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hi Folks, I have a question here that I can�t find anywhere on the Internet. I have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last night. Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? Charts or links would be most helpful. I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This tank is 3� Long, 2� high, and 2� wide. Now the seller did say that the aquarium was made from �� plate glass but I�m thinking to myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some help here? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:53:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 2:05:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 2:13:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

I don't blame my material on anyone else... well, maybe on \\Steve// if the joke doesn't work. LOL Whether it's good or bad, it's all mine.. unless I notably credit it to someone else. I would never intentionally plagiarize... unless I wanted to be V.P.-elect one day. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Len, Someday ---------------when you have the time??? Maybe you can tell me who “writes” your material! “Tell the CEO----_______! Priceless! Check Gmail? Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 3:13 PM Typically, 24" high sides that are 36" long would have to have a decent thickness but as long as it's framed properly on the top, that should stop bowing although I guess the middle of the pane could bow out a little. It would be more prone to breakage upon something hitting it with thinner glass also... but if it was previously set up as a full aquarium, then it would probably be OK in an adult home. Now if you have kids or grandkids throwing stuff around, it might be worrisome. Couldn't you always make your own stand.. or maybe trim off a couple of inches on each side of the one that comes with it? That's presuming it has a table top type top that extends beyond the base frame. Or you could tell the CEO that the stand will stop that door from getting stuck closed in the event of a fire. lol Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Thanks Len, On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the empty tank is about 200 #". Now please note what these folks just said about the glass thickness? Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and I've been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of water pressure. I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual tank. It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right out of my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would not like that one bit. I really hate to let this one go. Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change depending on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... probably 1/4th the weight when empty. It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe around 150 pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those measurements add up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when full. The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning substrate level plants that require moderate+ lighting. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has filled weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to get approximate tank weight when empty. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hi Folks, I have a question here that I can’t find anywhere on the Internet. I have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last night. Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? Charts or links would be most helpful. I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This tank is 3’ Long, 2’ high, and 2’ wide. Now the seller did say that the aquarium was made from ¼” plate glass but I’m thinking to myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some help here? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 3:11:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33395	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

Okay, I was just worried my 55 gallon would cycle all over again if I took out the carbon, but a mini cycle isn't so bad ;). I was also planning on moving a few of the fake plants into the 125 gallon, so that should help it cycle a little faster as well. I'm going to have like no decorations for this big tank though until I can afford some, hope the 3 fish I'm moving don't mind too much ;) The angel's probably won't, but the severum might miss a hiding place as he likes to hang out inside of ornaments (big enough ones, heh). Maybe I'll go down to the hardware store and look for some PVC pipes to put in the tank for now (they aren't pretty but they're cheap, hehe). Also my filter doesn't have any floss/pleated filter inside of it, but outside of the carbon container it has a filter sleeve that's supposed to catch most of the "ickies" (yes a technical term, LOL). I suppose I could squeeze that out into the new filter too, that may help. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well... at the same time you remove the carbon for the new tank, > you'll also > be removing some of the bioload of the 55G.. the fish you will also be > moving to the new tank.. so you shouldn't have much of a mini-cycle on > either tank. You have a lot more filter media on the current 55G between > the canister and the sand filter.. and all of the other surface areas > of the > current tank. The carbon might only make up 10% of your total nitrifying > bacteria. That's why I said to move it all. Of course, I'm presuming > you're moving at least 10% of the fish bioload into the new tank as well. > Without me being able to see all your fish and their relative sizes, it's > hard for me to know what percentage of the bioload you will be moving. > That's something you'll have to estimate and then estimate the same > percentage of biofilter media. Your sand filter will have the most > biofiltration since that's what it's designed for. Your floss and pleated > filter in the canister will have a huge amount also. The carbon will also > have some even though that's not the primary purpose of carbon.. but it > still has a lot of surface area with microscopic cracks/crevices. All of > the other substrate, decorations, glass surfaces, etc., will also be home > for nitrifying bacteria. Typically, the filter(s) will have the most since > all of the "food" passes by them constantly.. like a "lazy susan" for > nitrifying bacteria... so that's where they'll build the biggest colonies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > I have the model before they made the bio-wheel's for them (which is why > I hate the darn thing sometimes, as I think they improved it after they > added the bio-wheel, hehe). My magnum 350 pro is more like a canister > filter only, it sits on the floor and connects to the intake/outake's > that hang on the side of the tank. The part that I really hate about it > is when you remove the top of the canister to get to the media > cartridge, it suctions itself to the lid to the media container inside > the canister, so when you remove the top lid you remove both and the > carbon goes all over inside the canister, which makes for even more > cleanup. I got the fluidized bed filter for biological production since > my magnum 350 doesn't have the bio-wheel attachment (and not even sure > if I could attach it, may be made differently now from my magnum 350 > which is about 10 years old now). > And I already have big biceps but I don't think it's from all the bucket > hauling that I already do, since I lift packages all day long (I work > for Fed Ex) LOL, lifting the buckets is just like another thing for me > to pick up and carry ;). > My concern is if I take out all of my carbon, wont' my 55 gallon do a > big cycle too? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I'm not sure if 1/4th of the carbon is enough or not. While carbon does > > have a lot of surface area, it's primary purpose is not for growing > > nitrifying bacteria but it will certainly have some. > > > > Doesn't the Magnum 350 also connect to an HOB Bio-Wheel housing? The > > actual > > Bio-Wheel will house the majority of the nitrifying bacteria in this > > filter > > system but the rest of the media will also have some. > > > > If it was me, I'd probably move ALL of the carbon to the new tanks > filter > > reservoir so you are sure to transfer enough nitrifying bacteria. You'll > > have to leave it there for several weeks until the new filter media is > > growing sufficient colonies. Then when you remove it, check your > > ammonia/nitrite for a few days after to make sure things are OK. > > > > BTW... what's not user friendly on the Magnum 350? This article implies > > it's easy to maintain. > > > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm> > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm>> > > > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm> > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm> > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm>> > > > > > > > And you'll definitely need a Python with a 55G and a 125G... or you'll > > have > > some really big biceps from lifting all them 5G buckets. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:50 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > nitromax > > > > My angel's are the biggest fish in my tank, they're about 3 1/2 inches I > > would guess. > > I was going to take out about a 1/4 of the carbon from my magnum 350 > > and put > > it into the new filter, along with new media. But I also need to > > figure out > > what kind of filter I will have on the new tank, as I haven't even > > seen it, > > LOL. All I know is that it comes with one ;) Let's hope it's more user > > friendly than my current filter ;). > > I will know what all I will be getting tomorrow evening after work > > when I go > > pick up the tank, I'll make sure to let you guys know ;) hehe. I'm > mostly > > excited to get the python gravel cleaner system, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. If all of your fish are currently in the 55G and you are not > > > buying new fish for the 125G at this time, then your current tank is > > > fully cycled for your current bioload. > > > > > > All you need to do is remove a portion of your filter media from the > > > current tank and put that in the filter of the new tank when you move > > > the fish. > > > Just use a proportional amount. If you are moving 10% of the fish > > > bioload, then move 10% of the media. You'll have to determine this > > > figure based on the size of the fish you are moving in comparison > to the > > rest of the fish. > > > For example, if you had a full sized Angelfish and 49 danio's, then > > > the Angelfish would be more than 50% of the bioload.. probably 70%, > > > not 1/50th of it. Since I can't see the size of your fish, you'll have > > > to estimate the body mass of the fish you are moving as a percentage > > > of the total body mass of all of your fish... and move that proportion > > > of the media. This way, you will not need any of Dr. Tim's One And > > > Only. Tell your LFS that I'm sorry for costing them this sale. ;-) > > > > > > Another option since you may be only moving a few small fish into a > > > much larger water volume, besides moving the carbon, since you > > > mentioned that as something you could move that is cycled, you could > > > also squeeze some of the "juice" from your cycled filter media which > > > will further help to seed the new filter media Sorry.. I don't know > > > what kind of filter media you have.. > > > you'll have to determine the best way to do this. I use either sponges > > > and loose filter floss pads or have them added to my cartridges and > > > reservoirs, in all of my filters, instead of the basic cartridges so I > > > can easily move things around and clean things. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:24 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > > nitromax > > > > > > I was only planning on putting 3 fish into the 125 gallon at first, > > > and maybe later adding others. They are all juvenile fish: 2 angel > > > fish and > > > 1 gold severum (he's about an inch and a half in size right now, maybe > > > going on 2 inches, grows fast). > > > My 55 gallon currently has cycled with the following fish in it: 7 > > > glofish danio's (1" in size approx), 2 dwarf flame gourami's (2 > > > inches), > > > 5 flame tetra's (just under an inch), 1 female betta (3 inches maybe, > > > adult), 1 african dwarf frog, 1 cory cat (about an inch), as well as > > > the > > > 3 fish I plan on moving into the bigger tank. And yes I know it's > > > overstocked, hence why I got the bigger tank ;) I was going to take > > > some of my carbon and put it into the new filter, but I need to work > > > on getting sand in the tank first I suppose, it's going to cost me > > > around 35 dollars a bag (20#'s each), and I'm going to need more than > > > just a few of those ;) Gonna cost a fortune, LOL. My LFS doesn't have > > > a lot of choices in sand for me, bug she did dig up a list for me to > > > look at (there's about 5 of them, and most are for salt water or > > > african cichlids, LOL). I ended up going with the black Eco complete > > > for the planted aquarium, even though the tank probably won't have > > > more than a few plants in it. They can get just basic sand at > > > 28.99 a bag (for 20#'s), I might go with that instead if my budget > > > doesn't have much wiggle room, but I don't know what color it'll be, > > > probably a "tan". > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > The Na is the chemical symbol for Salt... thus Na H20 is Salt Water. > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > All of Dr. Tim's FW products have the trademark "H2O Pure" and his > > > > SW products have the trademark "Na H2O Pure". Since your tank is FW, > > > > you'll want the One And Only for "H2O Pure". > > > > > > > > While I'm a big proponent of One And Only, I realize he also has to > > > > sell other products to support his company but many of his other > > > > products are not needed or rather there are other competitive > > > > products which may be better priced. > > > > > > > > In reading the description on AquaCleanse which is the name on his > > > > tap water treatment and it says it also detoxifies ammonia so I'm > > > > guessing it's similar to SeaChem's Prime. You'll have to compare the > > > > prices and dosaging to find which is better priced if you needed > > > > this type of product. For dechlor and heavy metal treatment, I find > > > > that API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator > > > > are the best bargains out there for me. > > > > They both only need 1ml per 10G where many of the other products > > > > need 5ml or 10ml per 10G. I see that Dr. Tim's AquaCleanse needs 5ml > > > > per 10G. Given this, it would have to be 1/5th the price or you > > > > would get 5X's more for the same price to make this competitive with > > > > the two products I just mentioned. > > > > I usually buy at least a 16 oz. bottle of the API or TopFin to get a > > > > better price per ounce and it lasts me a while. > > > > > > > > Now.. to your cycling questions... > > > > > > > > There's no way to give you an exact timeline on how long it will > > > > take to fully cycle a tank.. especially when cycling with fish.. but > > > > it will usually take 4-8 weeks. Seeding the new tank with some > > > > cycled filter media will speed things up but it depends on the > > > > bioload in the new tank compared to the amount of bacteria you > > > > transfer, your water parameters also (O2 levels, temperature, etc.). > > > > As an example, if you have 10 fish in a cycled tank and you take 10% > > > > of the filter media and put it in the new tank, it would be > > > > instantly cycled for one fish. If you add ten fish to the new tank, > > > > it will only be 10% cycled. There are far too many other variables > > to go > > over here. > > > > > > > > Now.. back to the One And Only. You mention a 125G tank. Will you be > > > > fully stocking it on day one? Or were you hoping to fully stock it > > > on day > > > one.. > > > > or just adding some fish? If you were only adding a few fish on day > > > > one, then a 2 oz. bottle would cycle the tank for that bioload and > > > > then each time you add more fish, you could add a little more One > > > > And Only or just work your way through the ensuing mini-cycle that > > > > happens with each increase in the bioload. > > > > > > > > I see on Dr. Tim's site that an 8 oz. bottle of One And Only will > > > > instantly cycle 120G but that's for a full bioload of juvenile fish. > > > > Were you planning on adding full grown fish or juvenile fish? What > > > > kind of fish and how many? > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, due to trying to sell product in a competitive > > > > marketplace, he also has the recommendation to add One And Only > > > > after each PWC but this simply is not needed. The recommendation to > > > > add it after medical treatments could be applicable if the medicine > > > > was the type that might kill off some/all of the nitrifying > > > > bacteria. All of the other Bottle Bacterias also have this > > > > recommendation. The thing they should have is to add some when ever > > > > someone throws away their filter cartridge every month, for > folks that > > follow that bad advice. > > > > Now that would be a good use of One And Only if people do not want > > > > to clean their filters. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > 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> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:36 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question > > > > about nitromax > > > > > > > > The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was because I > > > > will need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at > > > > least > > > > 4 of the 2 oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS > > > > sells for > > > > 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not > > > > sure what the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz bottles > > > > are going to cost me over 60 dollars basically (without shipping). I > > > > didn't really want to spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a > > > > tank cycle if I take out some of my carbon from my cycled filter and > > > > put it into the new filter? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like > > > > > many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work > > > > > as > > > > advertised... > > > > > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax > > > > > Fresh is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over > > > > > 2 billion live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, > > > > > using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that > > > > > the correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were > > > > > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter > > > > > bacteria which were thought, for several years, to be the right > > ones... > > > > > weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other > > > > > noted > > > > scientists reviewed Dr. > > > > > Tim's > > > > > work and found it to be correct. > > > > > > > > > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate > > > > > levels, for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but > > > > > you see that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second stage > > > > > of the nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the > > > > > correct bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > > > > > > > > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying > > > > > to get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new > > > > > and correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the original > > > > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > > > > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and > > > Marineland.. > > > > > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which > > > > > point, you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria > > > > > products to compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart > > > > > (formerly > > > > > Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see > > > > > many more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these > > > > > products will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. > > Tim's...", > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the > > > > > original patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but > > > > > that product had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced > > > > > products > > > that > > > Dr. > > > > > Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents > > > > > pending that will last another ten years so any competitor's > > > > > products will have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by > > Dr. Tim > > or Tetra. > > > > > > > > > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated > > > > > although I did see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on > > > > > the DFS site but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs > > > > > > 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33396	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar to what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness material in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass Cages tank you found, especially as this is not a standard sized tank that I know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier material in their aquariums, even if not needed (they do make good, heavy duty tanks). I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten gallon footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for them -- and only charged me $14 each. As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be expected of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had it been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their 48" x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). So by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they made one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' tanks are built so much stronger. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Thanks Len, >   > On the money as always.  BUT here's a cut and paste from our old friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder:  "If this is an aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 > Weight of the empty tank is about 200 #".  >   > Now please note what these folks just said about > the glass thickness?  Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank is "bowing"?   I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and I've been away from the hobby for a while.  I know a lot was been done with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of water pressure. >   > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math and came up at 92.2 gallons.  Neverless the less, a most usual tank.  It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right out of my reach.  The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would not like that one bit.  I really hate to let this one go. >   > Bill   > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change depending > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... probably > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe around 150 > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those measurements add > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when full. > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning substrate > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has filled > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to get > approximate tank weight when empty. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last > night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some > help here? > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:53:17 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33397	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

For someone who throws out insults to someone who's trying to help you, it's a miracle he offers any advice at all. And Lenny, I think you're advice is great, thanks for all the help you give even though you don't always get treated that well in response. Amber Chris Johnson wrote: > > No. I dosed once at around that number, myabe twice, and that was on > accident. My ph is stable at around 7.8 and I have a clam shell in > there to keep the ph and carbonates consistent. I've also been topping > off the water level with water that I've saved from my 20 gallon tank > which I also use shells in to keep things consistant. I don't have a > test for gh or kh yet, but the water temp is 75. > > Finally > > If I wanted information from an ass hole I would ask my own > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

It might be time for you to go out driftwood hunting... or maybe the only drifts you'll get up there right now is ice and snow drifts. But if you can find a nice piece of driftwood, you could boil it for an hour or two to kill any bio-bugs. That would make a nice centerpiece to the big tank. A couple of big rocks (also boiled) would also help to fill in the aquascaping until you can start working on plants. You know you're gonna have to go with some live plants... right? Chincy plastic/silk plants just don't cut it in big tanks. Is your Magnum 350 supposed to have the round pleated filter inside it? I know they also have the round filter floss padding as well but I thought the pleated filter was a staple in that system. But yes, squeezing the floss padding or rubbing your new filter floss on the cycled filter floss would help transfer some of the good bacteria to the new filter floss. Once they take hold, they reproduce pretty quickly depending on the available nutrients. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax Okay, I was just worried my 55 gallon would cycle all over again if I took out the carbon, but a mini cycle isn't so bad ;). I was also planning on moving a few of the fake plants into the 125 gallon, so that should help it cycle a little faster as well. I'm going to have like no decorations for this big tank though until I can afford some, hope the 3 fish I'm moving don't mind too much ;) The angel's probably won't, but the severum might miss a hiding place as he likes to hang out inside of ornaments (big enough ones, heh). Maybe I'll go down to the hardware store and look for some PVC pipes to put in the tank for now (they aren't pretty but they're cheap, hehe). Also my filter doesn't have any floss/pleated filter inside of it, but outside of the carbon container it has a filter sleeve that's supposed to catch most of the "ickies" (yes a technical term, LOL). I suppose I could squeeze that out into the new filter too, that may help. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well... at the same time you remove the carbon for the new tank, > you'll also > be removing some of the bioload of the 55G.. the fish you will also be > moving to the new tank.. so you shouldn't have much of a mini-cycle on > either tank. You have a lot more filter media on the current 55G between > the canister and the sand filter.. and all of the other surface areas > of the > current tank. The carbon might only make up 10% of your total nitrifying > bacteria. That's why I said to move it all. Of course, I'm presuming > you're moving at least 10% of the fish bioload into the new tank as well. > Without me being able to see all your fish and their relative sizes, it's > hard for me to know what percentage of the bioload you will be moving. > That's something you'll have to estimate and then estimate the same > percentage of biofilter media. Your sand filter will have the most > biofiltration since that's what it's designed for. Your floss and pleated > filter in the canister will have a huge amount also. The carbon will also > have some even though that's not the primary purpose of carbon.. but it > still has a lot of surface area with microscopic cracks/crevices. All of > the other substrate, decorations, glass surfaces, etc., will also be home > for nitrifying bacteria. Typically, the filter(s) will have the most since > all of the "food" passes by them constantly.. like a "lazy susan" for > nitrifying bacteria... so that's where they'll build the biggest colonies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > I have the model before they made the bio-wheel's for them (which is why > I hate the darn thing sometimes, as I think they improved it after they > added the bio-wheel, hehe). My magnum 350 pro is more like a canister > filter only, it sits on the floor and connects to the intake/outake's > that hang on the side of the tank. The part that I really hate about it > is when you remove the top of the canister to get to the media > cartridge, it suctions itself to the lid to the media container inside > the canister, so when you remove the top lid you remove both and the > carbon goes all over inside the canister, which makes for even more > cleanup. I got the fluidized bed filter for biological production since > my magnum 350 doesn't have the bio-wheel attachment (and not even sure > if I could attach it, may be made differently now from my magnum 350 > which is about 10 years old now). > And I already have big biceps but I don't think it's from all the bucket > hauling that I already do, since I lift packages all day long (I work > for Fed Ex) LOL, lifting the buckets is just like another thing for me > to pick up and carry ;). > My concern is if I take out all of my carbon, wont' my 55 gallon do a > big cycle too? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I'm not sure if 1/4th of the carbon is enough or not. While carbon does > > have a lot of surface area, it's primary purpose is not for growing > > nitrifying bacteria but it will certainly have some. > > > > Doesn't the Magnum 350 also connect to an HOB Bio-Wheel housing? The > > actual > > Bio-Wheel will house the majority of the nitrifying bacteria in this > > filter > > system but the rest of the media will also have some. > > > > If it was me, I'd probably move ALL of the carbon to the new tanks > filter > > reservoir so you are sure to transfer enough nitrifying bacteria. You'll > > have to leave it there for several weeks until the new filter media is > > growing sufficient colonies. Then when you remove it, check your > > ammonia/nitrite for a few days after to make sure things are OK. > > > > BTW... what's not user friendly on the Magnum 350? This article implies > > it's easy to maintain. > > > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm > > > > And you'll definitely need a Python with a 55G and a 125G... or you'll > > have > > some really big biceps from lifting all them 5G buckets. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:50 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > nitromax > > > > My angel's are the biggest fish in my tank, they're about 3 1/2 inches I > > would guess. > > I was going to take out about a 1/4 of the carbon from my magnum 350 > > and put > > it into the new filter, along with new media. But I also need to > > figure out > > what kind of filter I will have on the new tank, as I haven't even > > seen it, > > LOL. All I know is that it comes with one ;) Let's hope it's more user > > friendly than my current filter ;). > > I will know what all I will be getting tomorrow evening after work > > when I go > > pick up the tank, I'll make sure to let you guys know ;) hehe. I'm > mostly > > excited to get the python gravel cleaner system, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. If all of your fish are currently in the 55G and you are not > > > buying new fish for the 125G at this time, then your current tank is > > > fully cycled for your current bioload. > > > > > > All you need to do is remove a portion of your filter media from the > > > current tank and put that in the filter of the new tank when you move > > > the fish. > > > Just use a proportional amount. If you are moving 10% of the fish > > > bioload, then move 10% of the media. You'll have to determine this > > > figure based on the size of the fish you are moving in comparison > to the > > rest of the fish. > > > For example, if you had a full sized Angelfish and 49 danio's, then > > > the Angelfish would be more than 50% of the bioload.. probably 70%, > > > not 1/50th of it. Since I can't see the size of your fish, you'll have > > > to estimate the body mass of the fish you are moving as a percentage > > > of the total body mass of all of your fish... and move that proportion > > > of the media. This way, you will not need any of Dr. Tim's One And > > > Only. Tell your LFS that I'm sorry for costing them this sale. ;-) > > > > > > Another option since you may be only moving a few small fish into a > > > much larger water volume, besides moving the carbon, since you > > > mentioned that as something you could move that is cycled, you could > > > also squeeze some of the "juice" from your cycled filter media which > > > will further help to seed the new filter media Sorry.. I don't know > > > what kind of filter media you have.. > > > you'll have to determine the best way to do this. I use either sponges > > > and loose filter floss pads or have them added to my cartridges and > > > reservoirs, in all of my filters, instead of the basic cartridges so I > > > can easily move things around and clean things. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:24 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > > nitromax > > > > > > I was only planning on putting 3 fish into the 125 gallon at first, > > > and maybe later adding others. They are all juvenile fish: 2 angel > > > fish and > > > 1 gold severum (he's about an inch and a half in size right now, maybe > > > going on 2 inches, grows fast). > > > My 55 gallon currently has cycled with the following fish in it: 7 > > > glofish danio's (1" in size approx), 2 dwarf flame gourami's (2 > > > inches), > > > 5 flame tetra's (just under an inch), 1 female betta (3 inches maybe, > > > adult), 1 african dwarf frog, 1 cory cat (about an inch), as well as > > > the > > > 3 fish I plan on moving into the bigger tank. And yes I know it's > > > overstocked, hence why I got the bigger tank ;) I was going to take > > > some of my carbon and put it into the new filter, but I need to work > > > on getting sand in the tank first I suppose, it's going to cost me > > > around 35 dollars a bag (20#'s each), and I'm going to need more than > > > just a few of those ;) Gonna cost a fortune, LOL. My LFS doesn't have > > > a lot of choices in sand for me, bug she did dig up a list for me to > > > look at (there's about 5 of them, and most are for salt water or > > > african cichlids, LOL). I ended up going with the black Eco complete > > > for the planted aquarium, even though the tank probably won't have > > > more than a few plants in it. They can get just basic sand at > > > 28.99 a bag (for 20#'s), I might go with that instead if my budget > > > doesn't have much wiggle room, but I don't know what color it'll be, > > > probably a "tan". > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > The Na is the chemical symbol for Salt... thus Na H20 is Salt Water. > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > All of Dr. Tim's FW products have the trademark "H2O Pure" and his > > > > SW products have the trademark "Na H2O Pure". Since your tank is FW, > > > > you'll want the One And Only for "H2O Pure". > > > > > > > > While I'm a big proponent of One And Only, I realize he also has to > > > > sell other products to support his company but many of his other > > > > products are not needed or rather there are other competitive > > > > products which may be better priced. > > > > > > > > In reading the description on AquaCleanse which is the name on his > > > > tap water treatment and it says it also detoxifies ammonia so I'm > > > > guessing it's similar to SeaChem's Prime. You'll have to compare the > > > > prices and dosaging to find which is better priced if you needed > > > > this type of product. For dechlor and heavy metal treatment, I find > > > > that API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator > > > > are the best bargains out there for me. > > > > They both only need 1ml per 10G where many of the other products > > > > need 5ml or 10ml per 10G. I see that Dr. Tim's AquaCleanse needs 5ml > > > > per 10G. Given this, it would have to be 1/5th the price or you > > > > would get 5X's more for the same price to make this competitive with > > > > the two products I just mentioned. > > > > I usually buy at least a 16 oz. bottle of the API or TopFin to get a > > > > better price per ounce and it lasts me a while. > > > > > > > > Now.. to your cycling questions... > > > > > > > > There's no way to give you an exact timeline on how long it will > > > > take to fully cycle a tank.. especially when cycling with fish.. but > > > > it will usually take 4-8 weeks. Seeding the new tank with some > > > > cycled filter media will speed things up but it depends on the > > > > bioload in the new tank compared to the amount of bacteria you > > > > transfer, your water parameters also (O2 levels, temperature, etc.). > > > > As an example, if you have 10 fish in a cycled tank and you take 10% > > > > of the filter media and put it in the new tank, it would be > > > > instantly cycled for one fish. If you add ten fish to the new tank, > > > > it will only be 10% cycled. There are far too many other variables > > to go > > over here. > > > > > > > > Now.. back to the One And Only. You mention a 125G tank. Will you be > > > > fully stocking it on day one? Or were you hoping to fully stock it > > > on day > > > one.. > > > > or just adding some fish? If you were only adding a few fish on day > > > > one, then a 2 oz. bottle would cycle the tank for that bioload and > > > > then each time you add more fish, you could add a little more One > > > > And Only or just work your way through the ensuing mini-cycle that > > > > happens with each increase in the bioload. > > > > > > > > I see on Dr. Tim's site that an 8 oz. bottle of One And Only will > > > > instantly cycle 120G but that's for a full bioload of juvenile fish. > > > > Were you planning on adding full grown fish or juvenile fish? What > > > > kind of fish and how many? > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, due to trying to sell product in a competitive > > > > marketplace, he also has the recommendation to add One And Only > > > > after each PWC but this simply is not needed. The recommendation to > > > > add it after medical treatments could be applicable if the medicine > > > > was the type that might kill off some/all of the nitrifying > > > > bacteria. All of the other Bottle Bacterias also have this > > > > recommendation. The thing they should have is to add some when ever > > > > someone throws away their filter cartridge every month, for > folks that > > follow that bad advice. > > > > Now that would be a good use of One And Only if people do not want > > > > to clean their filters. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> > >> > > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:36 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question > > > > about nitromax > > > > > > > > The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was because I > > > > will need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at > > > > least > > > > 4 of the 2 oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS > > > > sells for > > > > 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not > > > > sure what the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz bottles > > > > are going to cost me over 60 dollars basically (without shipping). I > > > > didn't really want to spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a > > > > tank cycle if I take out some of my carbon from my cycled filter and > > > > put it into the new filter? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD science like > > > > > many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work > > > > > as > > > > advertised... > > > > > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax > > > > > Fresh is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: over > > > > > 2 billion live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years ago, > > > > > using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved that > > > > > the correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in FW were > > > > > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter > > > > > bacteria which were thought, for several years, to be the right > > ones... > > > > > weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other > > > > > noted > > > > scientists reviewed Dr. > > > > > Tim's > > > > > work and found it to be correct. > > > > > > > > > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate > > > > > levels, for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END SNIP) but > > > > > you see that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second stage > > > > > of the nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the > > > > > correct bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > > > > > > > > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably trying > > > > > to get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new > > > > > and correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the original > > > > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > > > > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and > > > Marineland.. > > > > > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which > > > > > point, you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria > > > > > products to compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's SafeStart > > > > > (formerly > > > > > Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see > > > > > many more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these > > > > > products will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. > > Tim's...", > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the > > > > > original patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or two but > > > > > that product had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced > > > > > products > > > that > > > Dr. > > > > > Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents > > > > > pending that will last another ten years so any competitor's > > > > > products will have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by > > Dr. Tim > > or Tetra. > > > > > > > > > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated > > > > > although I did see where DFS said to refrigerate after opening on > > > > > the DFS site but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science Biolabs > > > > > > http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 3:27:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33399	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Update after my mini-cycle & question about nitromax

Oh thanks for the driftwood idea, will have to drag the hubby down to the beach this weekend! LOL. I live on an island, lots of driftwood, some of it way too big ;) I was wanting to do some live plants but I will have to keep an eye on my severum to see if he/she digs any up. If I don't get any more severums will that help keep my single severum's breeding behaviors to a minimum or will it matter? I think I have some pleated thingy (yes that illusive thingy) around here somewhere to go inside my magnum but it goes in instead of the carbon container, so I figured it was an either/or situation (use one or the other). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It might be time for you to go out driftwood hunting... or maybe the only > drifts you'll get up there right now is ice and snow drifts. But if > you can > find a nice piece of driftwood, you could boil it for an hour or two > to kill > any bio-bugs. That would make a nice centerpiece to the big tank. A couple > of big rocks (also boiled) would also help to fill in the aquascaping > until > you can start working on plants. You know you're gonna have to go with > some > live plants... right? Chincy plastic/silk plants just don't cut it in big > tanks. > > Is your Magnum 350 supposed to have the round pleated filter inside it? I > know they also have the round filter floss padding as well but I > thought the > pleated filter was a staple in that system. But yes, squeezing the floss > padding or rubbing your new filter floss on the cycled filter floss would > help transfer some of the good bacteria to the new filter floss. Once they > take hold, they reproduce pretty quickly depending on the available > nutrients. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > nitromax > > Okay, I was just worried my 55 gallon would cycle all over again if I > took out the carbon, but a mini cycle isn't so bad ;). I was also > planning on moving a few of the fake plants into the 125 gallon, so that > should help it cycle a little faster as well. I'm going to have like no > decorations for this big tank though until I can afford some, hope the 3 > fish I'm moving don't mind too much ;) The angel's probably won't, but > the severum might miss a hiding place as he likes to hang out inside of > ornaments (big enough ones, heh). Maybe I'll go down to the hardware > store and look for some PVC pipes to put in the tank for now (they > aren't pretty but they're cheap, hehe). > Also my filter doesn't have any floss/pleated filter inside of it, but > outside of the carbon container it has a filter sleeve that's supposed > to catch most of the "ickies" (yes a technical term, LOL). I suppose I > could squeeze that out into the new filter too, that may help. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well... at the same time you remove the carbon for the new tank, > > you'll also > > be removing some of the bioload of the 55G.. the fish you will also be > > moving to the new tank.. so you shouldn't have much of a mini-cycle on > > either tank. You have a lot more filter media on the current 55G between > > the canister and the sand filter.. and all of the other surface areas > > of the > > current tank. The carbon might only make up 10% of your total nitrifying > > bacteria. That's why I said to move it all. Of course, I'm presuming > > you're moving at least 10% of the fish bioload into the new tank as > well. > > Without me being able to see all your fish and their relative sizes, > it's > > hard for me to know what percentage of the bioload you will be moving. > > That's something you'll have to estimate and then estimate the same > > percentage of biofilter media. Your sand filter will have the most > > biofiltration since that's what it's designed for. Your floss and > pleated > > filter in the canister will have a huge amount also. The carbon will > also > > have some even though that's not the primary purpose of carbon.. but it > > still has a lot of surface area with microscopic cracks/crevices. All of > > the other substrate, decorations, glass surfaces, etc., will also be > home > > for nitrifying bacteria. Typically, the filter(s) will have the most > since > > all of the "food" passes by them constantly.. like a "lazy susan" for > > nitrifying bacteria... so that's where they'll build the biggest > colonies. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:45 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > nitromax > > > > I have the model before they made the bio-wheel's for them (which is why > > I hate the darn thing sometimes, as I think they improved it after they > > added the bio-wheel, hehe). My magnum 350 pro is more like a canister > > filter only, it sits on the floor and connects to the intake/outake's > > that hang on the side of the tank. The part that I really hate about it > > is when you remove the top of the canister to get to the media > > cartridge, it suctions itself to the lid to the media container inside > > the canister, so when you remove the top lid you remove both and the > > carbon goes all over inside the canister, which makes for even more > > cleanup. I got the fluidized bed filter for biological production since > > my magnum 350 doesn't have the bio-wheel attachment (and not even sure > > if I could attach it, may be made differently now from my magnum 350 > > which is about 10 years old now). > > And I already have big biceps but I don't think it's from all the bucket > > hauling that I already do, since I lift packages all day long (I work > > for Fed Ex) LOL, lifting the buckets is just like another thing for me > > to pick up and carry ;). > > My concern is if I take out all of my carbon, wont' my 55 gallon do a > > big cycle too? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I'm not sure if 1/4th of the carbon is enough or not. While carbon > does > > > have a lot of surface area, it's primary purpose is not for growing > > > nitrifying bacteria but it will certainly have some. > > > > > > Doesn't the Magnum 350 also connect to an HOB Bio-Wheel housing? The > > > actual > > > Bio-Wheel will house the majority of the nitrifying bacteria in this > > > filter > > > system but the rest of the media will also have some. > > > > > > If it was me, I'd probably move ALL of the carbon to the new tanks > > filter > > > reservoir so you are sure to transfer enough nitrifying bacteria. > You'll > > > have to leave it there for several weeks until the new filter media is > > > growing sufficient colonies. Then when you remove it, check your > > > ammonia/nitrite for a few days after to make sure things are OK. > > > > > > BTW... what's not user friendly on the Magnum 350? This article > implies > > > it's easy to maintain. > > > > > > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/prcansiterfilters/fr/fprmagnum350.htm> > > > > > > And you'll definitely need a Python with a 55G and a 125G... or you'll > > > have > > > some really big biceps from lifting all them 5G buckets. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:50 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question about > > > nitromax > > > > > > My angel's are the biggest fish in my tank, they're about 3 1/2 > inches I > > > would guess. > > > I was going to take out about a 1/4 of the carbon from my magnum 350 > > > and put > > > it into the new filter, along with new media. But I also need to > > > figure out > > > what kind of filter I will have on the new tank, as I haven't even > > > seen it, > > > LOL. All I know is that it comes with one ;) Let's hope it's more user > > > friendly than my current filter ;). > > > I will know what all I will be getting tomorrow evening after work > > > when I go > > > pick up the tank, I'll make sure to let you guys know ;) hehe. I'm > > mostly > > > excited to get the python gravel cleaner system, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. If all of your fish are currently in the 55G and you are not > > > > buying new fish for the 125G at this time, then your current tank is > > > > fully cycled for your current bioload. > > > > > > > > All you need to do is remove a portion of your filter media from the > > > > current tank and put that in the filter of the new tank when you > move > > > > the fish. > > > > Just use a proportional amount. If you are moving 10% of the fish > > > > bioload, then move 10% of the media. You'll have to determine this > > > > figure based on the size of the fish you are moving in comparison > > to the > > > rest of the fish. > > > > For example, if you had a full sized Angelfish and 49 danio's, then > > > > the Angelfish would be more than 50% of the bioload.. probably 70%, > > > > not 1/50th of it. Since I can't see the size of your fish, > you'll have > > > > to estimate the body mass of the fish you are moving as a percentage > > > > of the total body mass of all of your fish... and move that > proportion > > > > of the media. This way, you will not need any of Dr. Tim's One And > > > > Only. Tell your LFS that I'm sorry for costing them this sale. ;-) > > > > > > > > Another option since you may be only moving a few small fish into a > > > > much larger water volume, besides moving the carbon, since you > > > > mentioned that as something you could move that is cycled, you could > > > > also squeeze some of the "juice" from your cycled filter media which > > > > will further help to seed the new filter media Sorry.. I don't know > > > > what kind of filter media you have.. > > > > you'll have to determine the best way to do this. I use either > sponges > > > > and loose filter floss pads or have them added to my cartridges and > > > > reservoirs, in all of my filters, instead of the basic > cartridges so I > > > > can easily move things around and clean things. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:24 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question > about > > > > nitromax > > > > > > > > I was only planning on putting 3 fish into the 125 gallon at first, > > > > and maybe later adding others. They are all juvenile fish: 2 angel > > > > fish and > > > > 1 gold severum (he's about an inch and a half in size right now, > maybe > > > > going on 2 inches, grows fast). > > > > My 55 gallon currently has cycled with the following fish in it: 7 > > > > glofish danio's (1" in size approx), 2 dwarf flame gourami's (2 > > > > inches), > > > > 5 flame tetra's (just under an inch), 1 female betta (3 inches > maybe, > > > > adult), 1 african dwarf frog, 1 cory cat (about an inch), as well as > > > > the > > > > 3 fish I plan on moving into the bigger tank. And yes I know it's > > > > overstocked, hence why I got the bigger tank ;) I was going to take > > > > some of my carbon and put it into the new filter, but I need to work > > > > on getting sand in the tank first I suppose, it's going to cost me > > > > around 35 dollars a bag (20#'s each), and I'm going to need more > than > > > > just a few of those ;) Gonna cost a fortune, LOL. My LFS doesn't > have > > > > a lot of choices in sand for me, bug she did dig up a list for me to > > > > look at (there's about 5 of them, and most are for salt water or > > > > african cichlids, LOL). I ended up going with the black Eco complete > > > > for the planted aquarium, even though the tank probably won't have > > > > more than a few plants in it. They can get just basic sand at > > > > 28.99 a bag (for 20#'s), I might go with that instead if my budget > > > > doesn't have much wiggle room, but I don't know what color it'll be, > > > > probably a "tan". > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The Na is the chemical symbol for Salt... thus Na H20 is Salt > Water. > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > All of Dr. Tim's FW products have the trademark "H2O Pure" and his > > > > > SW products have the trademark "Na H2O Pure". Since your tank > is FW, > > > > > you'll want the One And Only for "H2O Pure". > > > > > > > > > > While I'm a big proponent of One And Only, I realize he also > has to > > > > > sell other products to support his company but many of his other > > > > > products are not needed or rather there are other competitive > > > > > products which may be better priced. > > > > > > > > > > In reading the description on AquaCleanse which is the name on his > > > > > tap water treatment and it says it also detoxifies ammonia so I'm > > > > > guessing it's similar to SeaChem's Prime. You'll have to > compare the > > > > > prices and dosaging to find which is better priced if you needed > > > > > this type of product. For dechlor and heavy metal treatment, I > find > > > > > that API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water > Dechlorinator > > > > > are the best bargains out there for me. > > > > > They both only need 1ml per 10G where many of the other products > > > > > need 5ml or 10ml per 10G. I see that Dr. Tim's AquaCleanse > needs 5ml > > > > > per 10G. Given this, it would have to be 1/5th the price or you > > > > > would get 5X's more for the same price to make this > competitive with > > > > > the two products I just mentioned. > > > > > I usually buy at least a 16 oz. bottle of the API or TopFin to > get a > > > > > better price per ounce and it lasts me a while. > > > > > > > > > > Now.. to your cycling questions... > > > > > > > > > > There's no way to give you an exact timeline on how long it will > > > > > take to fully cycle a tank.. especially when cycling with > fish.. but > > > > > it will usually take 4-8 weeks. Seeding the new tank with some > > > > > cycled filter media will speed things up but it depends on the > > > > > bioload in the new tank compared to the amount of bacteria you > > > > > transfer, your water parameters also (O2 levels, temperature, > etc.). > > > > > As an example, if you have 10 fish in a cycled tank and you > take 10% > > > > > of the filter media and put it in the new tank, it would be > > > > > instantly cycled for one fish. If you add ten fish to the new > tank, > > > > > it will only be 10% cycled. There are far too many other variables > > > to go > > > over here. > > > > > > > > > > Now.. back to the One And Only. You mention a 125G tank. Will > you be > > > > > fully stocking it on day one? Or were you hoping to fully stock it > > > > on day > > > > one.. > > > > > or just adding some fish? If you were only adding a few fish > on day > > > > > one, then a 2 oz. bottle would cycle the tank for that bioload and > > > > > then each time you add more fish, you could add a little more One > > > > > And Only or just work your way through the ensuing mini-cycle that > > > > > happens with each increase in the bioload. > > > > > > > > > > I see on Dr. Tim's site that an 8 oz. bottle of One And Only will > > > > > instantly cycle 120G but that's for a full bioload of juvenile > fish. > > > > > Were you planning on adding full grown fish or juvenile fish? What > > > > > kind of fish and how many? > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, due to trying to sell product in a competitive > > > > > marketplace, he also has the recommendation to add One And Only > > > > > after each PWC but this simply is not needed. The > recommendation to > > > > > add it after medical treatments could be applicable if the > medicine > > > > > was the type that might kill off some/all of the nitrifying > > > > > bacteria. All of the other Bottle Bacterias also have this > > > > > recommendation. The thing they should have is to add some when > ever > > > > > someone throws away their filter cartridge every month, for > > folks that > > > follow that bad advice. > > > > > Now that would be a good use of One And Only if people do not want > > > > > to clean their filters. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> > >> > > > >> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:36 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update after my mini-cycle & question > > > > > about nitromax > > > > > > > > > > The only reason I didn't want to get the One and Only was > because I > > > > > will need a lot for a 125 gallon tank, and that's going to be at > > > > > least > > > > > 4 of the 2 oz bottles (which comes up to 120 gallons), which DFS > > > > > sells for > > > > > 13.99 ea. for the h20-pure and 18.99 ea. for the Na H20-pure (not > > > > > sure what the difference is, DFS doesn't say). 2 of the 4 oz > bottles > > > > > are going to cost me over 60 dollars basically (without > shipping). I > > > > > didn't really want to spend that much on bacteria. How fast will a > > > > > tank cycle if I take out some of my carbon from my cycled > filter and > > > > > put it into the new filter? > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > My first problem with it, is it's likely based on OLD > science like > > > > > > many of the other bottled bacteria's out there, that do not work > > > > > > as > > > > > advertised... > > > > > > mainly because the product description says... (SNIP) Nitromax > > > > > > Fresh is a highly concentrated blend of nitrifying bacteria: > over > > > > > > 2 billion live nitrosomonas and nitrobacter per ounce. (END > SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > When Dr. Tim invented and patented Bio-Spira nearly 10 years > ago, > > > > > > using peer-reviewed, advanced DNA bio-engineering, he proved > that > > > > > > the correct bacteria for nitrifying ammonia AND nitrite in > FW were > > > > > > nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira. The nitrobacter > > > > > > bacteria which were thought, for several years, to be the right > > > ones... > > > > > > weren't! This has been peer-reviewed many times.. meaning other > > > > > > noted > > > > > scientists reviewed Dr. > > > > > > Tim's > > > > > > work and found it to be correct. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nitromax also advertises... (SNIP)Reduces ammonia and nitrate > > > > > > levels, for rapid cycling of freshwater aquariums...(END > SNIP) but > > > > > > you see that it does not mention nitrIte which is the second > stage > > > > > > of the nitrogen cycle. This is because it does not contain the > > > > > > correct bacteria for the nitrite stage. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why it's way cheaper and on sale.. they're probably > trying > > > > > > to get rid of their inventory so they can come out with the new > > > > > > and correct kind of bottled bacteria to compete with the > original > > > > > > Bio-Spira. > > > > > > > > > > > > The original patent for Bio-Spira (co-owned by Dr. Tim and > > > > Marineland.. > > > > > > which is now owned by Tetra) expires in a year or two, at which > > > > > > point, you'll see a flood of bottled refrigerated bacteria > > > > > > products to compete with Dr. Tim's One And Only, Tetra's > SafeStart > > > > > > (formerly > > > > > > Bio-Spira) and any other licensed competitors. You may even see > > > > > > many more licensed competitors before the 10 year mark but these > > > > > > products will advertise "Same as Bio-Spira" or "Same as Dr. > > > Tim's...", > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. after re-reading and rethinking this a little... the > > > > > > original patent on Bio-Spira will be expiring in a year or > two but > > > > > > that product had to be kept refrigerated so the newer advanced > > > > > > products > > > > that > > > > Dr. > > > > > > Tim and Tetra are now selling likely have patents or patents > > > > > > pending that will last another ten years so any competitor's > > > > > > products will have to be kept refrigerated unless licensed by > > > Dr. Tim > > > or Tetra. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not see where the Nitromax has to be kept refrigerated > > > > > > although I did see where DFS said to refrigerate after > opening on > > > > > > the DFS site but the manufacturer's site, Tropical Science > Biolabs > > > > > > > > http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60 > <http://www.tsbiolabs.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NM%2D60> > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 3:27:12 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33400	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Right Ray,   But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate glass! That's what had me a bit nervous.  If I have to buy a new tank at all, no matter what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me.  I've never heard one bad word about them and only good things.  When folks make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business I can give them.   Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar to what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness material in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass Cages tank you found, especially as this is not a standard sized tank that I know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier material in their aquariums, even if not needed (they do make good, heavy duty tanks). I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten gallon footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for them -- and only charged me $14 each. As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be expected of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had it been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their 48" x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). So by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they made one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' tanks are built so much stronger. Ray ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Thanks Len, >   > On the money as always.  BUT here's a cut and paste from our old friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder:  "If this is an aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 > Weight of the empty tank is about 200 #".  >   > Now please note what these folks just said about > the glass thickness?  Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank is "bowing"?   I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and I've been away from the hobby for a while.  I know a lot was been done with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of water pressure. >   > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math and came up at 92.2 gallons.  Neverless the less, a most usual tank.  It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right out of my reach.  The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would not like that one bit.  I really hate to let this one go. >   > Bill   > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change depending > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... probably > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe around 150 > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those measurements add > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when full. > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning substrate > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has filled > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to get > approximate tank weight when empty. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last > night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some > help here? > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:53:17 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33401	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right?

I do hope this guy has been banned. If he isn't I think I will find another group. I would not want my wife to see this message.    What a JERK.   John in Nevada --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Fishless Cycle. Its cycled right? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:10 PM For someone who throws out insults to someone who's trying to help you, it's a miracle he offers any advice at all. And Lenny, I think you're advice is great, thanks for all the help you give even though you don't always get treated that well in response. Amber Chris Johnson wrote: > > No. I dosed once at around that number, myabe twice, and that was on > accident. My ph is stable at around 7.8 and I have a clam shell in > there to keep the ph and carbonates consistent. I've also been topping > off the water level with water that I've saved from my 20 gallon tank > which I also use shells in to keep things consistant. I don't have a > test for gh or kh yet, but the water temp is 75. > > Finally > > If I wanted information from an ass hole I would ask my own > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33402	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Hi Bill, Well, I guess the recollections of my experiences, as posted, was not that obvious (kind of thought they were self- explanatory). If you go back to my initial statement, you'll see that I wrote, "But as I've seen the first introduction of these Power Filters first hand," also, further down into my message I wrote, "I remember one of my buddy's father having one of these filters (Marco) in the early 1950's." By included these remarks of my experiences back then, I thought it would have been obvious that I was there; I regret not having clarified it thoroughly enough if you hadn't understood that. I realize that I hadn't stated my age in the early 1950's, but when referring to one of my buddy's father (probably should have written that as "buddies' " -- pleural possessive), this particular buddy was a grade school chum -- and I'm talking 1951. Recalling the events of the introductions of these first two power filters, I seemed to recollect them as being first offered around 1958, so yes, I did need to check my library ("The Aquarium" magazines) to find the exact dates (March and May 1955). No, I did not have aquarium experience in the 1930's (LOL), but reading many articles (from the time I got into the hobby) on the beginnings of our hobby, and talking with some of my older friends who were pioneers in the hobby enabled me to supply this additional information. My personal notes on acquiring a number of vastly improved HOB (Add- Life) power filters 7 or 8 years later (would have made it 1962 or 1963) after the first power filters were brought out in 1955 seemed obvious -- at least to me. I don't see how I could have made that any plainer. But to answer you plainly and simply, yes, I lived through that period, was part of it and these were part of my personal experiences. To add to your question -- which will go for anyhthing I write here -- whenever and whatever I write here is always based on personal experience. None of what I ever write here is ever based on research from the internet, as I have no need for it; whatever knowledge I offer is based on personal experience. I wouldn't offer anything I write unless I knew personally of its authenticity. Anyone can go up on the Internet and gather "facts," whether true or erroneous, but if such found facts can't be known to be true from one's personal experience, there's no way they can be known to be true at all. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, >   > I too was most interested in your "History" lessens.  But I must ask > a personal question here? <grin>.  Did you write that material up based > on research from the Internet or was the material actually based > on "Rays Personal Experience"?  Why am I asking?  Well I don't know > how old Ray is, but I do know how old Bill is and when you start talking > about the old box filters and Danner & Supreme air pumps and filter boxes, I could member my Mom cursing under her breath trying to get a siphon started for those filters.  >   > I remember also that they had a small t-joint in the bottom portion of the return plastic tubing loop.  At this joint and air-line was plugged in and when the siphon was started the air line was used to push or raise the water back into the tank.  That my friend was m-a-n- y years ago! <big grin>! >   > As Bob Hope use to say "Thanks For The Memories"! >   > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 12:01 AM > > > > > > > Joe, Glad to bring back some memories of the days of yor. Some of > the newer hobbyists may not necessarily appreciate the history > lesson, only as they haven't been there, but it does give insight in > that power filters were not always a part of the scene -- just as all- > glass tanks were not always the normal "shape of things." > > Depending on the model (and probably how new it is), some > AquaMaster "J" (inlet) tubes are double-wide and can't use just a > finger to close off the end. You need to use their specially shaped > end cap to seal off these tubes, which can be a royal pain. Better > off just buying a few 3/4" round filter tubes; saves a lot of > headaches. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jett07002" <jett07002@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks \\Steve// and Ray for that stroll down memory lane. Brought > > back many a happy moment and I read all your comments with a smile > of > > recognition to the old days. > > > > I still have one of Danner's "Supreme Dynaflow" pumps. The two > piston > > jobs. Housing got a little rusty but it still runs. (Keep them > > washers oiled!) > > > > Have three AquaMasters and they are still running, also. Hardest > part > > about using them is getting the intake "J" tubes to bring the water > in > > the box. LOL > > > > Thanks for going through the bother of the history lesson. I > enjoyed > > reading it. ;O) > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > Hi \\Steve//, No need for any corrections here, but as I've seen > the > > > first introduction of these new (power) filters first-hand, with > them > > > I've always found the subject of power filters interesting. With > > > your urging I'd be glad to add to this topic. At the time they > first > > > came on the market, they were nothing short of one of the > greatest > > > innovations in the aquarium hobby to that date and a refreshingly > new > > > revolutionary way to filter your aquariums... ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33403	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

There's always a chance the measurement on the glass thickness was incorrect. To me, a 24" tall tank would likely have thicker glass, rather than thinner, due to the added water pressure that a taller tank would have. Hopefully you'll hear from the seller and be able to go take a look at it. Bring your own ruler! I've seen so many people guesstimating the wrong size of their tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 4:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Right Ray, But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate glass! That's what had me a bit nervous. If I have to buy a new tank at all, no matter what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me. I've never heard one bad word about them and only good things. When folks make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business I can give them. Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar to what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness material in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass Cages tank you found, especially as this is not a standard sized tank that I know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier material in their aquariums, even if not needed (they do make good, heavy duty tanks). I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten gallon footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for them -- and only charged me $14 each. As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be expected of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had it been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their 48" x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). So by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they made one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' tanks are built so much stronger. Ray ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Thanks Len, > > On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the empty > tank is about 200 #". > > Now please note what these folks just said about the glass thickness? > Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and I've been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of water pressure. > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual tank. It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right out of my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would not like that one bit. I really hate to let this one go. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change depending > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... probably > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe around 150 > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those measurements add > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when full. > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning substrate > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has filled > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to get > approximate tank weight when empty. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last > night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some > help here? > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 4:43:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33404	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: O.T.: Bob Hope -- was, Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] sta

Bill, Had meant to include this, but I hit Send befor realizing it was too, late. Your quote of Bob Hope ("Thanks For The Memories!") brought back memories itself. Thanks for adding that. Any memories such as that are always fond memories. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Bill, Well, I guess the recollections of my experiences, as > posted, was not that obvious (kind of thought they were self- > explanatory). If you go back to my initial statement, you'll see > that I wrote, "But as I've seen the first introduction of these Power > Filters first hand," also, further down into my message I wrote, "I > remember one of my buddy's father having one of these filters (Marco) > in the early 1950's." > > By included these remarks of my experiences back then, I thought it > would have been obvious that I was there; I regret not having > clarified it thoroughly enough if you hadn't understood that. I > realize that I hadn't stated my age in the early 1950's, but when > referring to one of my buddy's father (probably should have written > that as "buddies' " -- pleural possessive), this particular buddy was > a grade school chum -- and I'm talking 1951. > > Recalling the events of the introductions of these first two power > filters, I seemed to recollect them as being first offered around > 1958, so yes, I did need to check my library ("The Aquarium" > magazines) to find the exact dates (March and May 1955). No, I did > not have aquarium experience in the 1930's (LOL), but reading many > articles (from the time I got into the hobby) on the beginnings of > our hobby, and talking with some of my older friends who were > pioneers in the hobby enabled me to supply this additional > information. > > My personal notes on acquiring a number of vastly improved HOB (Add- > Life) power filters 7 or 8 years later (would have made it 1962 or > 1963) after the first power filters were brought out in 1955 seemed > obvious -- at least to me. I don't see how I could have made that > any plainer. But to answer you plainly and simply, yes, I lived > through that period, was part of it and these were part of my > personal experiences. > > To add to your question -- which will go for anyhthing I write here -- > whenever and whatever I write here is always based on personal > experience. None of what I ever write here is ever based on research > from the internet, as I have no need for it; whatever knowledge I > offer is based on personal experience. I wouldn't offer anything I > write unless I knew personally of its authenticity. Anyone can go up > on the Internet and gather "facts," whether true or erroneous, but if > such found facts can't be known to be true from one's personal > experience, there's no way they can be known to be true at all. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > >   > > I too was most interested in your "History" lessens.  But I must ask > > a personal question here? <grin>.  Did you write that material up > based > > on research from the Internet or was the material actually based > > on "Rays Personal Experience"?  Why am I asking?  Well I don't know > > how old Ray is, but I do know how old Bill is and when you start > talking > > about the old box filters and Danner & Supreme air pumps and filter > boxes, I could member my Mom cursing under her breath trying to get a > siphon started for those filters.  > >   > > I remember also that they had a small t-joint in the bottom portion > of the return plastic tubing loop.  At this joint and air-line was > plugged in and when the siphon was started the air line was used to > push or raise the water back into the tank.  That my friend was m-a- n- > y years ago! <big grin>! > >   > > As Bob Hope use to say "Thanks For The Memories"! > >   > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 12:01 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, Glad to bring back some memories of the days of yor. Some of > > the newer hobbyists may not necessarily appreciate the history > > lesson, only as they haven't been there, but it does give insight > in > > that power filters were not always a part of the scene -- just as > all- > > glass tanks were not always the normal "shape of things." > > > > Depending on the model (and probably how new it is), some > > AquaMaster "J" (inlet) tubes are double-wide and can't use just a > > finger to close off the end. You need to use their specially shaped > > end cap to seal off these tubes, which can be a royal pain. Better > > off just buying a few 3/4" round filter tubes; saves a lot of > > headaches. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jett07002" <jett07002@ ..> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks \\Steve// and Ray for that stroll down memory lane. Brought > > > back many a happy moment and I read all your comments with a > smile > > of > > > recognition to the old days. > > > > > > I still have one of Danner's "Supreme Dynaflow" pumps. The two > > piston > > > jobs. Housing got a little rusty but it still runs. (Keep them > > > washers oiled!) > > > > > > Have three AquaMasters and they are still running, also. Hardest > > part > > > about using them is getting the intake "J" tubes to bring the > water > > in > > > the box. LOL > > > > > > Thanks for going through the bother of the history lesson. I > > enjoyed > > > reading it. ;O) > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve//, No need for any corrections here, but as I've > seen > > the > > > > first introduction of these new (power) filters first-hand, > with > > them > > > > I've always found the subject of power filters interesting. > With > > > > your urging I'd be glad to add to this topic. At the time they > > first > > > > came on the market, they were nothing short of one of the > > greatest > > > > innovations in the aquarium hobby to that date and a > refreshingly > > new > > > > revolutionary way to filter your aquariums... ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33405	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Bring your own ruler!  If we ever get that far, you can count on it!   Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 5:43 PM There's always a chance the measurement on the glass thickness was incorrect. To me, a 24" tall tank would likely have thicker glass, rather than thinner, due to the added water pressure that a taller tank would have.. Hopefully you'll hear from the seller and be able to go take a look at it. Bring your own ruler! I've seen so many people guesstimating the wrong size of their tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 4:15 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Right Ray, But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate glass! That's what had me a bit nervous. If I have to buy a new tank at all, no matter what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me. I've never heard one bad word about them and only good things. When folks make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business I can give them. Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar to what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness material in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass Cages tank you found, especially as this is not a standard sized tank that I know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier material in their aquariums, even if not needed (they do make good, heavy duty tanks). I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten gallon footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for them -- and only charged me $14 each. As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be expected of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had it been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their 48" x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). So by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they made one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' tanks are built so much stronger. Ray ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Thanks Len, > > On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the empty > tank is about 200 #". > > Now please note what these folks just said about the glass thickness? > Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and I've been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of water pressure. > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual tank. It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right out of my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would not like that one bit.. I really hate to let this one go. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change depending > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... probably > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe around 150 > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those measurements add > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when full. > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning substrate > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. htm has filled > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to get > approximate tank weight when empty. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last > night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some > help here? > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 4:43:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33406	From: harry perry	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants/Lisa

Noticed in your post you mentioned duck weed. Take my word for it, don't do it. Last summer I took some plants from a local stream(an excellent way to accumulate snails) I picked up some duck weed with the plants. Good grief!!!! My fish love the surface cover but it is very difficult to get rid of. It eventually covers the whole surface. Scooping it out is the only way to get rid of it but if you miss any,  even one little plant it will come back. I found horn wort to be a good floating plant. Low light and a nutrient sponge. I use live plants to balance my tanks and control algae. Two of my tanks don't have filters. I'm not suggesting you try this. It took a long while til I figured out how to balance a tank. Harry  --- On Thu, 11/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live Plants To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 20, 2008, 11:25 PM http://www.PlantGee k.net has a very simple way to find what you need. Click on Plant Guide at the top. Click the Difficulty button first. Then click the Very Easy button. Look over those 14 plants.. although I don't see any that fit your noted parameters. Next, go back and click on the Easy button, which has 76 plants listed. On the right hand side of each plant, you'll see "Tank Placement" as one of the parameters. Look at the ones that have Floating. Your other option, which might be easier since you mainly are looking for floating plants... while on the Plant Guide page, click on the Aquascaping button and then click on the Floating button and look at the 25 listed and look for the ones that have a Difficulty rating of Very Easy or Easy. I see at least 10 are listed as Easy. I did not see Anacharis listed as a floating plant but it can be left floating and does very well as a floating plant since it will get more lighting that way and also get more CO2 from the surface air while still getting plenty of nutrients from the water column. Anacharis will also root but the roots are simple root structures and are an anchor system rather than a nutrient supply system. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:49 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Live Plants I'm looking for some ideas for some live plants. Low maintenance, low light requirements, and preferably floating, yet robust. I was thinking duckweed or banana lily. Can anyone else suggest anything? English names please. Not latin. My substrate is just washed gravel by the way. Thanks Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081120-0, 11/20/2008 Tested on: 11/20/2008 10:25:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33407	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants/Lisa

Harry, Increasing surface agitation will kill back duckweed and/or keep it in check. In my 10G cherry shrimp tank, where I have low volume filtration due to the constant numbers of babies, I have lots of duckweed. In my other tanks in the past, with lots of surface movement, even constantly adding duckweed will not get it to grow very much. And in the goldfish tank, well duckweed is just more food for them so that helps me to keep it down in the cherry shrimp tank as well.. but the duckweed does live in one area of the goldfish tank above the spray bar for my canister filter since that one inch of space along that end of the tank does not get any surface agitation and the goldfish can't get to that section to eat it either... although if there was a floating pellet that makes it there, the goldfish will spit and splash until it does get caught in a current. You are right about even one single little duckweed plant being able to propagate into quite a lot though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 5:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live Plants/Lisa Noticed in your post you mentioned duck weed. Take my word for it, don't do it. Last summer I took some plants from a local stream(an excellent way to accumulate snails) I picked up some duck weed with the plants. Good grief!!!! My fish love the surface cover but it is very difficult to get rid of. It eventually covers the whole surface. Scooping it out is the only way to get rid of it but if you miss any, even one little plant it will come back. I found horn wort to be a good floating plant. Low light and a nutrient sponge. I use live plants to balance my tanks and control algae. Two of my tanks don't have filters. I'm not suggesting you try this. It took a long while til I figured out how to balance a tank. Harry --- On Thu, 11/20/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live Plants To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, November 20, 2008, 11:25 PM http://www.PlantGee k.net has a very simple way to find what you need. Click on Plant Guide at the top. Click the Difficulty button first. Then click the Very Easy button. Look over those 14 plants.. although I don't see any that fit your noted parameters. Next, go back and click on the Easy button, which has 76 plants listed. On the right hand side of each plant, you'll see "Tank Placement" as one of the parameters. Look at the ones that have Floating. Your other option, which might be easier since you mainly are looking for floating plants... while on the Plant Guide page, click on the Aquascaping button and then click on the Floating button and look at the 25 listed and look for the ones that have a Difficulty rating of Very Easy or Easy. I see at least 10 are listed as Easy. I did not see Anacharis listed as a floating plant but it can be left floating and does very well as a floating plant since it will get more lighting that way and also get more CO2 from the surface air while still getting plenty of nutrients from the water column. Anacharis will also root but the roots are simple root structures and are an anchor system rather than a nutrient supply system. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:49 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Live Plants I'm looking for some ideas for some live plants. Low maintenance, low light requirements, and preferably floating, yet robust. I was thinking duckweed or banana lily. Can anyone else suggest anything? English names please. Not latin. My substrate is just washed gravel by the way. Thanks Lisa _____ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 5:36:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33408	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Shipping in Tupperware Container?

A few weeks ago, someone offered to send me their unwanted danios for free, if I paid the cost of shipping. I agreed (I wanted to increase my danio school). Well, they couldn't ship right away as things came up. By the time they went to ship, it was cold (last week). So, they got a heat pack and said they'd put that in. I offered to cover the cost of the heat pack since I wanted one, they declined. The fish were shipped Wednesday and arrived today. Of the four sent, only 1 survived and I'm not sure he'll make it. They were shipped without the heat pack. They were placed in a tupperware container that was sealed around the edges with plastic wrap. Then the container was wrapped in home insulation. I'm assuming the problem was primarily the cold given the lack of a heat pack. However, I have never seen a fish shipped in a plastic container before. Would the potentially banging up against the sides be harmful? Is it wise to send in a plastic container? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33409	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

OOHH!!! Yeah, 1/4" plate on a tank like that would have me more than nervous. Like at what time of the early morning an on which day is it going to let go -- with THE GREAT FLOOD. Could be this is a home- made tank(?). Or perhaps its one designed ONLY for reptiles. Glass Cages makes reptile tanks, but I guess you may have seen on their web site -- they specify what they're to be used for. In all fairness to any prospective customer, and not meant to bash Glass Cages, but I have heard some first-hand reports from several member in my club that a few of the tanks Glass Cages brought to one of our shows leaked when they bought them. Yet, having bought one (a 40 gallon breeder) from the same batch the same day, mine hasn't leaked yet. Seems like they may not have used enough sealant on a few, or they had a bad day with a few isolated incidences. I would not hold that against them, as that's easily remedied with adding some of your own silicone in the needed corner, but it shows what you can expect even if its a remote possibility. Maybe they were breaking in a new helper that week, or were in a hurry to get those tanks to our show. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Right Ray, >   > But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate glass! > That's what had me a bit nervous.  If I have to buy a new tank at all, no matter > what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me.  I've never heard one bad word about them and only good things.  When folks make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business I can give them. >   > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM > > > > > > > Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size > using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar to > what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness material > in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass Cages tank > you found, especially as this is not a standard sized tank that I > know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier material in their > aquariums, even if not needed (they do make good, heavy duty tanks). > I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten gallon > footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for > them -- and only charged me $14 each. > > As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should > bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all > large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be expected > of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. > > Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had it > been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass > Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their 48" > x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has > about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). So > by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they made > one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; > they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' > tanks are built so much stronger. Ray > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > Thanks Len, > >   > > On the money as always.  BUT here's a cut and paste from our old > friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder:  "If this is an > aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 > > Weight of the empty tank is about 200 #".  > >   > > Now please note what these folks just said about > > the glass thickness?  Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank > is "bowing"?   I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and I've > been away from the hobby for a while.  I know a lot was been done > with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of > water pressure. > >   > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math > and came up at 92.2 gallons.  Neverless the less, a most usual tank.  > It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right out of > my reach.  The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which > then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would not > like that one bit.  I really hate to let this one go. > >   > > Bill   > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change > depending > > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... > probably > > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe > around 150 > > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those > measurements add > > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when > full. > > > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning > substrate > > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. > htm has filled > > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to > get > > approximate tank weight when empty. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. > I have > > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > problem last > > night. > > > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. > This > > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that > the > > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself > that this > > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone > offer some > > help here? > > > > Bill > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > > Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:53:17 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping in Tupperware Container?

I've never used tupperware... too expensive and if it's used it might leach (if it will stain, it will leach)... but I have received and shipped cherry shrimp in the 1/2 liter "spring" water bottles. Of course, when shipping shrimp, we always include some live plants like anacharis or guppy grass so the shrimp have something to hang onto. Fish do not have this luxury. The newer bags, that allow for gas exchange through the "plastic", are probably the best things to ship fish in nowadays. It means you can fill them with water and the CO2 will outgas and O2 will ingas into the water as it moves around during shipping.. and since the bag is full of water, there's a lot less sloshing than when the bags were only 1/4th full. When I have gotten bags of fish, the bags were usually packed between sections of styrofoam so the sides of the bag were right against the styrofoam so if the fish was going to get harmed from the "hard" plastic of the tupperware or water bottle, it would be just as prone to harm from hitting the styrofoam. If they were Zebra Danio's, they are pretty tolerant of cool/cold waters but who knows how cold it got in that package depending on the route it took. A heat pack would still have been best to keep the water temps reasonably stabile. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Shipping in Tupperware Container? A few weeks ago, someone offered to send me their unwanted danios for free, if I paid the cost of shipping. I agreed (I wanted to increase my danio school). Well, they couldn't ship right away as things came up. By the time they went to ship, it was cold (last week). So, they got a heat pack and said they'd put that in. I offered to cover the cost of the heat pack since I wanted one, they declined. The fish were shipped Wednesday and arrived today. Of the four sent, only 1 survived and I'm not sure he'll make it. They were shipped without the heat pack. They were placed in a tupperware container that was sealed around the edges with plastic wrap. Then the container was wrapped in home insulation. I'm assuming the problem was primarily the cold given the lack of a heat pack. However, I have never seen a fish shipped in a plastic container before. Would the potentially banging up against the sides be harmful? Is it wise to send in a plastic container? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 5:39:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 5:51:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33411	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping in Tupperware Container?

Thanks, Lenny! Yeah, I am a huge fan of the breather bags. I see what you mean about the plastic bags up against the boxes, makes sense. Most of the ones I have received have had a layer of crumpled newspaper in between. But I've received a few where its right up against the bag. It must have been the cold then. They traveled from PA to OH. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 6:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Shipping in Tupperware Container? I've never used tupperware... too expensive and if it's used it might leach (if it will stain, it will leach)... but I have received and shipped cherry shrimp in the 1/2 liter "spring" water bottles. Of course, when shipping shrimp, we always include some live plants like anacharis or guppy grass so the shrimp have something to hang onto. Fish do not have this luxury. The newer bags, that allow for gas exchange through the "plastic", are probably the best things to ship fish in nowadays. It means you can fill them with water and the CO2 will outgas and O2 will ingas into the water as it moves around during shipping.. and since the bag is full of water, there's a lot less sloshing than when the bags were only 1/4th full. When I have gotten bags of fish, the bags were usually packed between sections of styrofoam so the sides of the bag were right against the styrofoam so if the fish was goi ng to get harmed from the "hard" plastic of the tupperware or water bottle, it would be just as prone to harm from hitting the styrofoam. If they were Zebra Danio's, they are pretty tolerant of cool/cold waters but who knows how cold it got in that package depending on the route it took. A heat pack would still have been best to keep the water temps reasonably stabile. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Shipping in Tupperware Container? A few weeks ago, someone offered to send me their unwanted danios for free, if I paid the cost of shipping. I agreed (I wanted to increase my danio school). Well, they couldn't ship right away as things came up. By the time they went to ship, it was cold (last week). So, they got a heat pack and said they'd put that in. I offered to cover the cost of the heat pack since I wanted one, they declined. The fish were shipped Wednesday and arrived today. Of the four sent, only 1 survived and I'm not sure he'll make it. They were shipped without the heat pack. They were placed in a tupperware container that was sealed around the edges with plastic wrap. Then the container was wrapped in home insulation. I'm assuming the problem was primarily the cold given the lack of a heat pack. However, I have never seen a fish shipped in a plastic container before. Would the potentially banging up against the sides be harmful? Is it wise to send in a plastic container? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 5:39:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 5:51:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33412	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: another day, another adventure.....

Well, today my new (used) tank arrived.  It's a 100 gallon tank on a stand with some boxes of nasty stuff which may or may not be usable.  I hadn't seen it before today so didn't know what to expect and I'm *hoping* some of the equipment will be usable although there is no lighting included.  So new lighting is a necessity but the dimensions, 60" X 17" seem kind of uncommon.  The tank is 24 inches deep which presents more challenges as it's too tall to reach into from the ground.  It's covered with dried algae, but I think we'll be able to run a siphon hose out a nearby window which should help the cleanup.  The stand is nice; a golden oak affair with three roll-out drawers down the middle and two big cabinets on either end.  There are two huge HOB filters and two BIG powerheads with filter attachments but everything is so cruddy, I don't know if it would be safe to try to clean and use them.  Everything was running when my husband looked at and purchased the tank, but it had been a long while since they had bothered to purchase or use the filter inserts.  I'm kind of overwhelmed by the amount  of preparation this is going to require.  I'm thinking I can use some material from the canister filter ( Marineland C-360) in the 75-G.  It's due for a cleaning but  the material is in stacking trays.  Would just placing one of  those trays into the new tank work to start the N.Cycle?  I have a million questions, but need to decide if I can use the filters that came with or if we need to purchase new.Any encouragement or ideas where to find the lighting fixtures will be appreciated. Thanks, Jackie   _ __ __ _ __ __ avast! Antivirus < http :// www .avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database ( VPS ): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 5:36:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. __ ._,_. __ _ Messages in this topic ( 11 ) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. MARKETPLACE From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity •   13 New Members •   9 New Photos Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Going Green Zone Find ways to go green. Join a green group. Y! Groups blog the best source for the latest scoop on Groups. Special K Group on Yahoo! Groups Join the challenge and lose weight. . __ ,_._, __ _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33413	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Shipping in Tupperware Container?

Did they by any chance travel from Pennsylvania to Ohio via mail? More than likely, and if they weren't shipped specially for live animals, they travelled in an unpressurized, unheated, unaircnoditioned hold. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Shipping in Tupperware Container? Thanks, Lenny! Yeah, I am a huge fan of the breather bags. I see what you mean about the plastic bags up against the boxes, makes sense. Most of the ones I have received have had a layer of crumpled newspaper in between. But I've received a few where its right up against the bag. It must have been the cold then. They traveled from PA to OH. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 6:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Shipping in Tupperware Container? I've never used tupperware... too expensive and if it's used it might leach (if it will stain, it will leach)... but I have received and shipped cherry shrimp in the 1/2 liter "spring" water bottles. Of course, when shipping shrimp, we always include some live plants like anacharis or guppy grass so the shrimp have something to hang onto. Fish do not have this luxury. The newer bags, that allow for gas exchange through the "plastic", are probably the best things to ship fish in nowadays. It means you can fill them with water and the CO2 will outgas and O2 will ingas into the water as it moves around during shipping.. and since the bag is full of water, there's a lot less sloshing than when the bags were only 1/4th full. When I have gotten bags of fish, the bags were usually packed between sections of styrofoam so the sides of the bag were right against the styrofoam so if the fish was goi ng to get harmed from the "hard" plastic of the tupperware or water bottle, it would be just as prone to harm from hitting the styrofoam. If they were Zebra Danio's, they are pretty tolerant of cool/cold waters but who knows how cold it got in that package depending on the route it took. A heat pack would still have been best to keep the water temps reasonably stabile. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Shipping in Tupperware Container? A few weeks ago, someone offered to send me their unwanted danios for free, if I paid the cost of shipping. I agreed (I wanted to increase my danio school). Well, they couldn't ship right away as things came up. By the time they went to ship, it was cold (last week). So, they got a heat pack and said they'd put that in. I offered to cover the cost of the heat pack since I wanted one, they declined. The fish were shipped Wednesday and arrived today. Of the four sent, only 1 survived and I'm not sure he'll make it. They were shipped without the heat pack. They were placed in a tupperware container that was sealed around the edges with plastic wrap. Then the container was wrapped in home insulation. I'm assuming the problem was primarily the cold given the lack of a heat pack. However, I have never seen a fish shipped in a plastic container before. Would the potentially banging up against the sides be harmful? Is it wise to send in a plastic container? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 5:39:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 5:51:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33414	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Hi Again Ray,   Listen I should have included you in this from the start.  If you still have a mind to, here is the orginal posting and where it came from for you to review.  Sorry for being thoughtless on this point.   http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html   back when you can,   sonny --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 6:45 PM OOHH!!! Yeah, 1/4" plate on a tank like that would have me more than nervous. Like at what time of the early morning an on which day is it going to let go -- with THE GREAT FLOOD. Could be this is a home- made tank(?). Or perhaps its one designed ONLY for reptiles. Glass Cages makes reptile tanks, but I guess you may have seen on their web site -- they specify what they're to be used for. In all fairness to any prospective customer, and not meant to bash Glass Cages, but I have heard some first-hand reports from several member in my club that a few of the tanks Glass Cages brought to one of our shows leaked when they bought them. Yet, having bought one (a 40 gallon breeder) from the same batch the same day, mine hasn't leaked yet. Seems like they may not have used enough sealant on a few, or they had a bad day with a few isolated incidences. I would not hold that against them, as that's easily remedied with adding some of your own silicone in the needed corner, but it shows what you can expect even if its a remote possibility. Maybe they were breaking in a new helper that week, or were in a hurry to get those tanks to our show. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Right Ray, >   > But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate glass! > That's what had me a bit nervous.  If I have to buy a new tank at all, no matter > what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me.  I've never heard one bad word about them and only good things.  When folks make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business I can give them. >   > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM > > > > > > > Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size > using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar to > what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness material > in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass Cages tank > you found, especially as this is not a standard sized tank that I > know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier material in their > aquariums, even if not needed (they do make good, heavy duty tanks). > I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten gallon > footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for > them -- and only charged me $14 each. > > As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should > bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all > large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be expected > of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. > > Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had it > been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass > Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their 48" > x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has > about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). So > by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they made > one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; > they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' > tanks are built so much stronger. Ray > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > Thanks Len, > >   > > On the money as always.  BUT here's a cut and paste from our old > friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder:  "If this is an > aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 > > Weight of the empty tank is about 200 #".  > >   > > Now please note what these folks just said about > > the glass thickness?  Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank > is "bowing"?   I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and I've > been away from the hobby for a while.  I know a lot was been done > with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of > water pressure. > >   > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math > and came up at 92.2 gallons.  Neverless the less, a most usual tank.  > It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right out of > my reach.  The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which > then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would not > like that one bit.  I really hate to let this one go. > >   > > Bill   > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change > depending > > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... > probably > > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe > around 150 > > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those > measurements add > > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds when > full. > > > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning > substrate > > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. > htm has filled > > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to > get > > approximate tank weight when empty. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. > I have > > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > problem last > > night. > > > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. > This > > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that > the > > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself > that this > > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone > offer some > > help here? > > > > Bill > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > > Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:53:17 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33415	From: danf2346	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: online ordering

I have looked at ordering fish online, because it is easier on the fish to go straight from the breeder to me, rather than the breeder to the pet store to me. At least that is what I have read. I am wondering if anyone could suggest a good place to order from? I live in wisconsin, so I would imagine it would be good to find a dealer somewhere in the area or at least midwest. I am looking possibly for guppies, tettras, and african dwarf frogs. Thanks:)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33416	From: pam andress	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: online ordering

Look on aquabid.com. Many places that sell fish that are breeders, will not sell to just anyone. You have to have a retail license. You can also look into a aquarium society near you and meet many breeders in your area. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: danf2346@...: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 02:00:42 +0000Subject: [AquaticLife] online ordering I have looked at ordering fish online, because it is easier on the fish to go straight from the breeder to me, rather than the breeder to the pet store to me. At least that is what I have read. I am wondering if anyone could suggest a good place to order from? I live in wisconsin, so I would imagine it would be good to find a dealer somewhere in the area or at least midwest. I am looking possibly for guppies, tettras, and african dwarf frogs. Thanks:) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33417	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Bill, Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of glass) gave me this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061105153505AAQutIE TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/6bmp8j \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hi Folks,   I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet.  I have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last night.   Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? Charts or links would be most helpful.   I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere.  This tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide.  Now the seller did say that the aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty.  Can anyone offer some help here?   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33418	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". Just kidding Bill! ;-) I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the craigslist ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be thicker since I've never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by Bill as 2' tall but it's actually 3' tall according to the ad) with only 1/4" thick glass. I'm leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" thick glass meaning my original weight approximation was not accurate. It's probably in the 250-300 pound range.... getting closer to Bill's first guess at 400 pounds. Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing wall... or you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total pounds now.... but a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the lighting.. maybe going with quad 18" CFL's. Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll see this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on fixtures and bulbs. The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it says "...According to Wikipedia...". I've been burned enough times by bad info in Wikipedia. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Bill, Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of glass) gave me this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061105153505AAQutIE <http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061105153505AAQutIE> TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/6bmp8j <http://tinyurl.com/6bmp8j> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hi Folks, I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last night. Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? Charts or links would be most helpful. I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some help here? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 8:51:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33419	From: Philip	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Multiple father guppies.

Hi all, can a female fancy guppy carry breeds (fry) from multiple males at a time. (the little hussies) lol. ?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33420	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

By my eye it looks home made to me, it doesn't have the usual trim around the bottom but that picture is not the greatest, it could have a brown trim, not sure. The fact that it has a custom hood makes you wonder if it's home made though. Good luck :) Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Hi Again Ray, > > Listen I should have included you in this from the start. If you > still have a mind to, > here is the orginal posting and where it came from for you to review. > Sorry for being thoughtless on this point. > > http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > back when you can, > > sonny > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 6:45 PM > > OOHH!!! Yeah, 1/4" plate on a tank like that would have me more than > nervous. Like at what time of the early morning an on which day is > it going to let go -- with THE GREAT FLOOD. Could be this is a home- > made tank(?). Or perhaps its one designed ONLY for reptiles. Glass > Cages makes reptile tanks, but I guess you may have seen on their web > site -- they specify what they're to be used for. > > In all fairness to any prospective customer, and not meant to bash > Glass Cages, but I have heard some first-hand reports from several > member in my club that a few of the tanks Glass Cages brought to one > of our shows leaked when they bought them. Yet, having bought one (a > 40 gallon breeder) from the same batch the same day, mine hasn't > leaked yet. Seems like they may not have used enough sealant on a > few, or they had a bad day with a few isolated incidences. I would > not hold that against them, as that's easily remedied with adding > some of your own silicone in the needed corner, but it shows what you > can expect even if its a remote possibility. Maybe they were > breaking in a new helper that week, or were in a hurry to get those > tanks to our show. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > Right Ray, > > > > But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate > glass! > > That's what had me a bit nervous. If I have to buy a new tank at > all, no matter > > what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me. I've > never heard one bad word about them and only good things. When folks > make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business > I can give them. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size > > using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar to > > what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness material > > in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass Cages tank > > you found, especially as this is not a standard sized tank that I > > know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier material in their > > aquariums, even if not needed (they do make good, heavy duty > tanks). > > I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten > gallon > > footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for > > them -- and only charged me $14 each. > > > > As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should > > bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all > > large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be > expected > > of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. > > > > Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had it > > been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass > > Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their > 48" > > x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has > > about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). So > > by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they > made > > one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; > > they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' > > tanks are built so much stronger. Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> > wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Len, > > > > > > On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old > > friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an > > aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > > > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 > > > Weight of the empty tank is about 200 #". > > > > > > Now please note what these folks just said about > > > the glass thickness? Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank > > is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and > I've > > been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done > > with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of > > water pressure. > > > > > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math > > and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual > tank. > > It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right > out of > > my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which > > then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would > not > > like that one bit. I really hate to let this one go. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > > > > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change > > depending > > > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... > > probably > > > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > > > > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe > > around 150 > > > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those > > measurements add > > > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds > when > > full. > > > > > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning > > substrate > > > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > > > > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. > > htm has filled > > > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to > > get > > > approximate tank weight when empty. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > yahoogroups. com] On > > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > > > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the > Internet. > > I have > > > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > > problem last > > > night. > > > > > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight > empty? > > > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > > > > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before > anywhere. > > This > > > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > that > > the > > > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself > > that this > > > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone > > offer some > > > help here? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message > clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > > > Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:53:17 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33421	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: New tank

Okay, I didn't get the chance to pick the tank up tonight, go figure that it starts snowing the day I'm going to move it and my dad's pickup is only 2 wheel drive (and I live at the top of a mountain). But I did get a better look at the tank and a few of the things I'll be getting with it. It's definately coming with a python gravel cleaner (yay), and the fancy hood/cover will be nice (doesn't show the light fixture). I'm going to go pick it up on sunday afternoon, and then I can get started on all the cleaning ;) There's still a little fish swimming around in the tank that she has to drop off at the LFS, and the tank still needs to be finished syphoned out too. She did start scrubbing the algae (some sort of saltwater algae that I don't know the name of) off the sides, so it looks a bit better, looks like there's more than just live sand still in it, maybe some live rock too, I'm not sure, the tank was dark. I still plan on going beach combing this weekend to look for some good rocks and driftwood. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

I think the bottom black plastic frame is dropped down inside the stand trim. Many aquarium stands have trim that goes up and covers the bottom plastic and then the canopy covers the top plastic... like this one... I picked a lighter colored stand/canopy to show how the trim hides the black plastic tank frame. http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_268.jpg Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? By my eye it looks home made to me, it doesn't have the usual trim around the bottom but that picture is not the greatest, it could have a brown trim, not sure. The fact that it has a custom hood makes you wonder if it's home made though. Good luck :) Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Hi Again Ray, > > Listen I should have included you in this from the start. If you still > have a mind to, here is the orginal posting and where it came from for > you to review. > Sorry for being thoughtless on this point. > > http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > > back when you can, > > sonny > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 6:45 PM > > OOHH!!! Yeah, 1/4" plate on a tank like that would have me more than > nervous. Like at what time of the early morning an on which day is it > going to let go -- with THE GREAT FLOOD. Could be this is a home- made > tank(?). Or perhaps its one designed ONLY for reptiles. Glass Cages > makes reptile tanks, but I guess you may have seen on their web site > -- they specify what they're to be used for. > > In all fairness to any prospective customer, and not meant to bash > Glass Cages, but I have heard some first-hand reports from several > member in my club that a few of the tanks Glass Cages brought to one > of our shows leaked when they bought them. Yet, having bought one (a > 40 gallon breeder) from the same batch the same day, mine hasn't > leaked yet. Seems like they may not have used enough sealant on a few, > or they had a bad day with a few isolated incidences. I would not hold > that against them, as that's easily remedied with adding some of your > own silicone in the needed corner, but it shows what you can expect > even if its a remote possibility. Maybe they were breaking in a new > helper that week, or were in a hurry to get those tanks to our show. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > Right Ray, > > > > But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate > glass! > > That's what had me a bit nervous. If I have to buy a new tank at > all, no matter > > what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me. I've > never heard one bad word about them and only good things. When folks > make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business I > can give them. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size > > using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar to > > what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness material > > in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass Cages tank > > you found, especially as this is not a standard sized tank that I > > know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier material in their > > aquariums, even if not needed (they do make good, heavy duty > tanks). > > I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten > gallon > > footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for > > them -- and only charged me $14 each. > > > > As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should > > bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all > > large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be > expected > > of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. > > > > Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had it > > been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass > > Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their > 48" > > x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has > > about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). So > > by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they > made > > one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; > > they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' > > tanks are built so much stronger. Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> > wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Len, > > > > > > On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old > > friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an aquarium > > , the glass thickness is 1/2". > > > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the > > > empty tank is about 200 #". > > > > > > Now please note what these folks just said about the glass > > > thickness? Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank > > is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and > I've > > been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done > > with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of > > water pressure. > > > > > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math > > and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual > tank. > > It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right > out of > > my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which > > then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would > not > > like that one bit. I really hate to let this one go. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > > > > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change > > depending > > > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... > > probably > > > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > > > > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe > > around 150 > > > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those > > measurements add > > > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds > when > > full. > > > > > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning > > substrate > > > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > > > > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. > > htm has filled > > > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to > > get > > > approximate tank weight when empty. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > > referenced above listed on the right side > under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > yahoogroups. com] On > > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > > > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the > Internet. > > I have > > > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > > problem last > > > night. > > > > > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight > empty? > > > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > > > > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before > anywhere. > > This > > > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > that > > the > > > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself > > that this > > > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone > > offer some > > > help here? > > > > > > Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:02:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33423	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: New tank

So... now the big question... do you or one of your neighbors have a BIG crawfish boiler (aka turkey fryer) up there in the Alaskan boonies? http://www.copewithit.com/crawfish-cooker.htm That's what I used to boil my driftwood to make sure it was safe for my tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank Okay, I didn't get the chance to pick the tank up tonight, go figure that it starts snowing the day I'm going to move it and my dad's pickup is only 2 wheel drive (and I live at the top of a mountain). But I did get a better look at the tank and a few of the things I'll be getting with it. It's definately coming with a python gravel cleaner (yay), and the fancy hood/cover will be nice (doesn't show the light fixture). I'm going to go pick it up on sunday afternoon, and then I can get started on all the cleaning ;) There's still a little fish swimming around in the tank that she has to drop off at the LFS, and the tank still needs to be finished syphoned out too. She did start scrubbing the algae (some sort of saltwater algae that I don't know the name of) off the sides, so it looks a bit better, looks like there's more than just live sand still in it, maybe some live rock too, I'm not sure, the tank was dark. I still plan on going beach combing this weekend to look for some good rocks and driftwood. Amber ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:03:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:12:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33424	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

DFS has decent prices on their lights, but I found a guy on ebay with just as good of prices. This is the ebay link for the quad 65 watt light. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=370017471992 But it's 48" long so I'm not sure how you're going to find a proper light for that tank since it's 3 feet long, LOL. The seller has a few 36" fixtures but they're spendy (T5 lighting or HPS lights), he does have one 36" 2x96W coralife freshwater aqualight for 184.99 plus shipping which isn't too bad. That should be decent lighting for that tank I would guess. In case you want to search for the store it's called "Jt's Aquatics Online Store" (if my link cuts off below). He actually has a good list of items going in case anyone regularly shops on ebay for stuff, his prices seem pretty fair. http://cgi.ebay.com/36-2x96W-Coralife-FRESHWATER-Aqualight_W0QQitemZ370017451654QQihZ024QQcategoryZ46314QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". > Just kidding Bill! ;-) > > I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the > craigslist > ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be thicker since > I've > never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by Bill as 2' tall but it's > actually 3' tall according to the ad) with only 1/4" thick glass. I'm > leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" thick glass meaning my > original > weight approximation was not accurate. It's probably in the 250-300 pound > range.... getting closer to Bill's first guess at 400 pounds. > > Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing wall... or > you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total pounds > now.... but > a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the lighting.. maybe going with > quad 18" CFL's. > > Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently > looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll see > this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on > fixtures and > bulbs. > > The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it > says > "...According to Wikipedia...". I've been burned enough times by bad info > in Wikipedia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Bill, > > Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of > glass) > gave me this: > http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061105153505AAQutIE > <http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061105153505AAQutIE> > <http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061105153505AAQutIE > <http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061105153505AAQutIE>> > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/6bmp8j > <http://tinyurl.com/6bmp8j> > <http://tinyurl.com/6bmp8j <http://tinyurl.com/6bmp8j>> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem > last > night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some > help here? > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 8:51:56 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33425	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Thanks Steve,   I cheated and contacted Glass Cages about it.  They sent a reply at 200 lbs.   Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 9:23 PM Bill, Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of glass) gave me this: http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hi Folks,   I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet.  I have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last night.   Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? Charts or links would be most helpful.   I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere.  This tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide.  Now the seller did say that the aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty.  Can anyone offer some help here?   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33426	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Hey my new tank kinda looks like that one, LOL. Except I think the bottom part is more open because she has it covered with a piece of fabric ;) Thanks for clarifying, though that craigslist pic is not the greatest quality to see how good of a tank it is ;) I was also thinking it may be home made since it looks like they made it to fit that space, LOL. It's just wide enough to not block the doorway ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I think the bottom black plastic frame is dropped down inside the stand > trim. Many aquarium stands have trim that goes up and covers the bottom > plastic and then the canopy covers the top plastic... like this one... I > picked a lighter colored stand/canopy to show how the trim hides the black > plastic tank frame. > http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_268.jpg > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_268.jpg> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > By my eye it looks home made to me, it doesn't have the usual trim around > the bottom but that picture is not the greatest, it could have a brown > trim, > not sure. The fact that it has a custom hood makes you wonder if it's home > made though. > Good luck :) > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Again Ray, > > > > Listen I should have included you in this from the start. If you still > > have a mind to, here is the orginal posting and where it came from for > > you to review. > > Sorry for being thoughtless on this point. > > > > http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html>> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html>> > > > > > back when you can, > > > > sonny > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 6:45 PM > > > > OOHH!!! Yeah, 1/4" plate on a tank like that would have me more than > > nervous. Like at what time of the early morning an on which day is it > > going to let go -- with THE GREAT FLOOD. Could be this is a home- made > > tank(?). Or perhaps its one designed ONLY for reptiles. Glass Cages > > makes reptile tanks, but I guess you may have seen on their web site > > -- they specify what they're to be used for. > > > > In all fairness to any prospective customer, and not meant to bash > > Glass Cages, but I have heard some first-hand reports from several > > member in my club that a few of the tanks Glass Cages brought to one > > of our shows leaked when they bought them. Yet, having bought one (a > > 40 gallon breeder) from the same batch the same day, mine hasn't > > leaked yet. Seems like they may not have used enough sealant on a few, > > or they had a bad day with a few isolated incidences. I would not hold > > that against them, as that's easily remedied with adding some of your > > own silicone in the needed corner, but it shows what you can expect > > even if its a remote possibility. Maybe they were breaking in a new > > helper that week, or were in a hurry to get those tanks to our show. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Right Ray, > > > > > > But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate > > glass! > > > That's what had me a bit nervous. If I have to buy a new tank at > > all, no matter > > > what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me. I've > > never heard one bad word about them and only good things. When folks > > make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business I > > can give them. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size > > > using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar to > > > what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness material > > > in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass Cages tank > > > you found, especially as this is not a standard sized tank that I > > > know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier material in their > > > aquariums, even if not needed (they do make good, heavy duty > > tanks). > > > I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten > > gallon > > > footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for > > > them -- and only charged me $14 each. > > > > > > As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should > > > bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all > > > large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be > > expected > > > of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. > > > > > > Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had it > > > been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass > > > Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their > > 48" > > > x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has > > > about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). So > > > by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they > > made > > > one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; > > > they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' > > > tanks are built so much stronger. Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Len, > > > > > > > > On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old > > > friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an aquarium > > > , the glass thickness is 1/2". > > > > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the > > > > empty tank is about 200 #". > > > > > > > > Now please note what these folks just said about the glass > > > > thickness? Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank > > > is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and > > I've > > > been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done > > > with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of > > > water pressure. > > > > > > > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math > > > and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual > > tank. > > > It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right > > out of > > > my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which > > > then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would > > not > > > like that one bit. I really hate to let this one go. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > > > > > > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change > > > depending > > > > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... > > > probably > > > > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > > > > > > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe > > > around 150 > > > > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those > > > measurements add > > > > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds > > when > > > full. > > > > > > > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning > > > substrate > > > > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > > > > > > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. > > > htm has filled > > > > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to > > > get > > > > approximate tank weight when empty. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > > > referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > > yahoogroups. com] On > > > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the > > Internet. > > > I have > > > > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > > > problem last > > > > night. > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight > > empty? > > > > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > > > > > > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before > > anywhere. > > > This > > > > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > > that > > > the > > > > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself > > > that this > > > > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone > > > offer some > > > > help here? > > > > > > > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:02:57 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33427	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

GlassCages.com sells a 118G with similar dimensions. The seller could be advertising it as 3' tall when the tank might be 31" tall and the canopy is 5" tall.. or something like that. But the footprint on this one is the same 36" x 24", except it's only 31" tall. http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat <http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=2> &lCatID=2 118 Gal. 36 x 24 x 31 Tall $375 Bill just needs to get his ruler over there and check things out. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hey my new tank kinda looks like that one, LOL. Except I think the bottom part is more open because she has it covered with a piece of fabric ;) Thanks for clarifying, though that craigslist pic is not the greatest quality to see how good of a tank it is ;) I was also thinking it may be home made since it looks like they made it to fit that space, LOL. It's just wide enough to not block the doorway ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I think the bottom black plastic frame is dropped down inside the > stand trim. Many aquarium stands have trim that goes up and covers the > bottom plastic and then the canopy covers the top plastic... like this > one... I picked a lighter colored stand/canopy to show how the trim > hides the black plastic tank frame. > http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_26 > 8.jpg > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_2 > 68.jpg> > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_2 > 68.jpg > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_2 > 68.jpg> > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > By my eye it looks home made to me, it doesn't have the usual trim > around the bottom but that picture is not the greatest, it could have > a brown trim, not sure. The fact that it has a custom hood makes you > wonder if it's home made though. > Good luck :) > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Again Ray, > > > > Listen I should have included you in this from the start. If you > > still have a mind to, here is the orginal posting and where it came > > from for you to review. > > Sorry for being thoughtless on this point. > > > > http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> >> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> >> > > > > > back when you can, > > > > sonny > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 6:45 PM > > > > OOHH!!! Yeah, 1/4" plate on a tank like that would have me more than > > nervous. Like at what time of the early morning an on which day is > > it going to let go -- with THE GREAT FLOOD. Could be this is a home- > > made tank(?). Or perhaps its one designed ONLY for reptiles. Glass > > Cages makes reptile tanks, but I guess you may have seen on their > > web site > > -- they specify what they're to be used for. > > > > In all fairness to any prospective customer, and not meant to bash > > Glass Cages, but I have heard some first-hand reports from several > > member in my club that a few of the tanks Glass Cages brought to one > > of our shows leaked when they bought them. Yet, having bought one (a > > 40 gallon breeder) from the same batch the same day, mine hasn't > > leaked yet. Seems like they may not have used enough sealant on a > > few, or they had a bad day with a few isolated incidences. I would > > not hold that against them, as that's easily remedied with adding > > some of your own silicone in the needed corner, but it shows what > > you can expect even if its a remote possibility. Maybe they were > > breaking in a new helper that week, or were in a hurry to get those tanks to our show. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Right Ray, > > > > > > But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate > > glass! > > > That's what had me a bit nervous. If I have to buy a new tank at > > all, no matter > > > what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me. I've > > never heard one bad word about them and only good things. When folks > > make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business > > I can give them. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size > > > using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar > > > to what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness > > > material in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass > > > Cages tank you found, especially as this is not a standard sized > > > tank that I know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier > > > material in their aquariums, even if not needed (they do make > > > good, heavy duty > > tanks). > > > I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten > > gallon > > > footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for > > > them -- and only charged me $14 each. > > > > > > As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should > > > bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all > > > large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be > > expected > > > of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. > > > > > > Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had > > > it been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass > > > Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their > > 48" > > > x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has > > > about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). > > > So by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they > > made > > > one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; > > > they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' > > > tanks are built so much stronger. Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Len, > > > > > > > > On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old > > > friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an > > > aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > > > > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the > > > > empty tank is about 200 #". > > > > > > > > Now please note what these folks just said about the glass > > > > thickness? Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank > > > is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and > > I've > > > been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done > > > with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of > > > water pressure. > > > > > > > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the > > > > math > > > and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual > > tank. > > > It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right > > out of > > > my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which > > > then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would > > not > > > like that one bit. I really hate to let this one go. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > > > > > > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to > > > > change > > > depending > > > > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... > > > probably > > > > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > > > > > > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe > > > around 150 > > > > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those > > > measurements add > > > > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds > > when > > > full. > > > > > > > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning > > > substrate > > > > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > > > > > > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. > > > htm has filled > > > > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water > > > > to > > > get > > > > approximate tank weight when empty. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > > > referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > > yahoogroups. com] On > > > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the > > Internet. > > > I have > > > > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > > > problem last > > > > night. > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight > > empty? > > > > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > > > > > > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before > > anywhere. > > > This > > > > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > > that > > > the > > > > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself > > > that this > > > > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone > > > offer some > > > > help here? > > > > > > > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 > 9:02:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:16:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:21:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33428	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: New tank

The best we have is a pressure cooker, maybe my parent's have something bigger, I'll have to ask ;) Can I boil one end of the driftwood at a time? LOL ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > So... now the big question... do you or one of your neighbors have a BIG > crawfish boiler (aka turkey fryer) up there in the Alaskan boonies? > http://www.copewithit.com/crawfish-cooker.htm > <http://www.copewithit.com/crawfish-cooker.htm> > > That's what I used to boil my driftwood to make sure it was safe for my > tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank > > Okay, I didn't get the chance to pick the tank up tonight, go figure > that it > starts snowing the day I'm going to move it and my dad's pickup is only 2 > wheel drive (and I live at the top of a mountain). > But I did get a better look at the tank and a few of the things I'll be > getting with it. It's definately coming with a python gravel cleaner > (yay), > and the fancy hood/cover will be nice (doesn't show the light > fixture). I'm > going to go pick it up on sunday afternoon, and then I can get started on > all the cleaning ;) There's still a little fish swimming around in the > tank > that she has to drop off at the LFS, and the tank still needs to be > finished > syphoned out too. She did start scrubbing the algae (some sort of > saltwater > algae that I don't know the name of) off the sides, so it looks a bit > better, looks like there's more than just live sand still in it, maybe > some > live rock too, I'm not sure, the tank was dark. > I still plan on going beach combing this weekend to look for some good > rocks > and driftwood. > > Amber > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:03:22 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:12:21 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33429	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Just got a message back on the stand; its too wide for the room and the boss won't let me move the door-way either!  Those days are gone for me anyway.  I've re-modeled two houses.   Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 9:51 PM LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". Just kidding Bill! ;-) I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the craigslist ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be thicker since I've never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by Bill as 2' tall but it's actually 3' tall according to the ad) with only 1/4" thick glass. I'm leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" thick glass meaning my original weight approximation was not accurate. It's probably in the 250-300 pound range.... getting closer to Bill's first guess at 400 pounds. Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing wall... or you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total pounds now.... but a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the lighting.. maybe going with quad 18" CFL's. Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll see this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on fixtures and bulbs. The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it says "...According to Wikipedia... ". I've been burned enough times by bad info in Wikipedia. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Bill, Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of glass) gave me this: http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE <http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE> TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j <http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hi Folks, I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem last night. Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? Charts or links would be most helpful. I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some help here? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 8:51:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33430	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

they are advertising it as 130 gallon tank according to the top of the ad. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > GlassCages.com sells a 118G with similar dimensions. The seller could be > advertising it as 3' tall when the tank might be 31" tall and the > canopy is > 5" tall.. or something like that. But the footprint on this one is the > same > 36" x 24", except it's only 31" tall. > > http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat > <http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat> > <http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=2 > <http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=2>> &lCatID=2 > 118 Gal. 36 x 24 x 31 Tall $375 > > Bill just needs to get his ruler over there and check things out. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hey my new tank kinda looks like that one, LOL. Except I think the bottom > part is more open because she has it covered with a piece of fabric ;) > Thanks for clarifying, though that craigslist pic is not the greatest > quality to see how good of a tank it is ;) I was also thinking it may be > home made since it looks like they made it to fit that space, LOL. > It's just > wide enough to not block the doorway ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think the bottom black plastic frame is dropped down inside the > > stand trim. Many aquarium stands have trim that goes up and covers the > > bottom plastic and then the canopy covers the top plastic... like this > > one... I picked a lighter colored stand/canopy to show how the trim > > hides the black plastic tank frame. > > > http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_26 > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_26> > > 8.jpg > > > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_2 > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_2> > > 68.jpg> > > > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_2 > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_2> > > 68.jpg > > > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_2 > <http://www.marineland.com/images/marineland/catalog/4ftpinedeeplive_2> > > 68.jpg> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > By my eye it looks home made to me, it doesn't have the usual trim > > around the bottom but that picture is not the greatest, it could have > > a brown trim, not sure. The fact that it has a custom hood makes you > > wonder if it's home made though. > > Good luck :) > > > > Amber > > > > bill1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Again Ray, > > > > > > Listen I should have included you in this from the start. If you > > > still have a mind to, here is the orginal posting and where it came > > > from for you to review. > > > Sorry for being thoughtless on this point. > > > > > > http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html>> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html>> > > > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html>> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html>> >> > > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html>> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html>> > > > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html>> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html> > > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html > <http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html>> >> > > > > > > > back when you can, > > > > > > sonny > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 6:45 PM > > > > > > OOHH!!! Yeah, 1/4" plate on a tank like that would have me more than > > > nervous. Like at what time of the early morning an on which day is > > > it going to let go -- with THE GREAT FLOOD. Could be this is a home- > > > made tank(?). Or perhaps its one designed ONLY for reptiles. Glass > > > Cages makes reptile tanks, but I guess you may have seen on their > > > web site > > > -- they specify what they're to be used for. > > > > > > In all fairness to any prospective customer, and not meant to bash > > > Glass Cages, but I have heard some first-hand reports from several > > > member in my club that a few of the tanks Glass Cages brought to one > > > of our shows leaked when they bought them. Yet, having bought one (a > > > 40 gallon breeder) from the same batch the same day, mine hasn't > > > leaked yet. Seems like they may not have used enough sealant on a > > > few, or they had a bad day with a few isolated incidences. I would > > > not hold that against them, as that's easily remedied with adding > > > some of your own silicone in the needed corner, but it shows what > > > you can expect even if its a remote possibility. Maybe they were > > > breaking in a new helper that week, or were in a hurry to get those > tanks to our show. > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Right Ray, > > > > > > > > But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate > > > glass! > > > > That's what had me a bit nervous. If I have to buy a new tank at > > > all, no matter > > > > what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me. I've > > > never heard one bad word about them and only good things. When folks > > > make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business > > > I can give them. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size > > > > using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar > > > > to what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness > > > > material in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass > > > > Cages tank you found, especially as this is not a standard sized > > > > tank that I know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier > > > > material in their aquariums, even if not needed (they do make > > > > good, heavy duty > > > tanks). > > > > I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten > > > gallon > > > > footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for > > > > them -- and only charged me $14 each. > > > > > > > > As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should > > > > bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all > > > > large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be > > > expected > > > > of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. > > > > > > > > Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had > > > > it been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass > > > > Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their > > > 48" > > > > x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has > > > > about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). > > > > So by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they > > > made > > > > one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; > > > > they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' > > > > tanks are built so much stronger. Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Len, > > > > > > > > > > On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old > > > > friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an > > > > aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > > > > > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the > > > > > empty tank is about 200 #". > > > > > > > > > > Now please note what these folks just said about the glass > > > > > thickness? Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank > > > > is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and > > > I've > > > > been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done > > > > with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of > > > > water pressure. > > > > > > > > > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the > > > > > math > > > > and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual > > > tank. > > > > It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right > > > out of > > > > my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which > > > > then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would > > > not > > > > like that one bit. I really hate to let this one go. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > > > > > > > > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to > > > > > change > > > > depending > > > > > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... > > > > probably > > > > > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > > > > > > > > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe > > > > around 150 > > > > > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those > > > > measurements add > > > > > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds > > > when > > > > full. > > > > > > > > > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning > > > > substrate > > > > > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > > > > > > > > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. > > > > htm has filled > > > > > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water > > > > > to > > > > get > > > > > approximate tank weight when empty. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > > > > referenced above listed on the right side > > > under > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > > > yahoogroups. com] On > > > > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > > > > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the > > > Internet. > > > > I have > > > > > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > > > > problem last > > > > > night. > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight > > > empty? > > > > > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > > > > > > > > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before > > > anywhere. > > > > This > > > > > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > > > that > > > > the > > > > > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself > > > > that this > > > > > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone > > > > offer some > > > > > help here? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > >> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 > > 9:02:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:16:46 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:21:49 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33431	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Hi Bill, Don't sweat the small stuff. By the pics, this tank obviously held water. Certainly a nice size tank (and a "small" step up from what you have). Hard to tell from lack of lighting in the area where the tank meets the stand, but it looks like the stand is about the same length as the tank. If its any longer, it can't be by very much. Looks like it has oak colored frames (at least going by the bottom one), with the hood matching the stand. No big deal that there's a mis-match of color. If you're still interested in it (I know you said it was out of your range), I'd ask the guy to re-measure the glass (thickness); it can't be just 1/4" -- it even looks heavier in the pics as seen at the corner. Adding to what I said about reptile tanks, they are made with lighter (thinner) glass for a comparable sized tank as are aquariums, so it wouldn't be a surprise to see a reptile tank of this size made of 1/4" plate, but that would not hold water, nor would it be meant to, without exploding. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi Again Ray, >   > Listen I should have included you in this from the start.  If you still have a mind to, > here is the orginal posting and where it came from for you to review.  Sorry for being thoughtless on this point. >   > http://lancaster.craigslist.org/fuo/927090789.html >   > back when you can, >   > sonny > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 6:45 PM > > > > > > > OOHH!!! Yeah, 1/4" plate on a tank like that would have me more than > nervous. Like at what time of the early morning an on which day is > it going to let go -- with THE GREAT FLOOD. Could be this is a home- > made tank(?). Or perhaps its one designed ONLY for reptiles. Glass > Cages makes reptile tanks, but I guess you may have seen on their web > site -- they specify what they're to be used for. > > In all fairness to any prospective customer, and not meant to bash > Glass Cages, but I have heard some first-hand reports from several > member in my club that a few of the tanks Glass Cages brought to one > of our shows leaked when they bought them. Yet, having bought one (a > 40 gallon breeder) from the same batch the same day, mine hasn't > leaked yet. Seems like they may not have used enough sealant on a > few, or they had a bad day with a few isolated incidences. I would > not hold that against them, as that's easily remedied with adding > some of your own silicone in the needed corner, but it shows what you > can expect even if its a remote possibility. Maybe they were > breaking in a new helper that week, or were in a hurry to get those > tanks to our show. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > Right Ray, > >   > > But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate > glass! > > That's what had me a bit nervous.  If I have to buy a new tank at > all, no matter > > what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me.  I've > never heard one bad word about them and only good things.  When folks > make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business > I can give them. > >   > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size > > using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar to > > what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness material > > in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass Cages tank > > you found, especially as this is not a standard sized tank that I > > know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier material in their > > aquariums, even if not needed (they do make good, heavy duty > tanks). > > I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten > gallon > > footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for > > them -- and only charged me $14 each. > > > > As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should > > bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all > > large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be > expected > > of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. > > > > Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had it > > been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass > > Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their > 48" > > x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has > > about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). So > > by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they > made > > one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; > > they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' > > tanks are built so much stronger. Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> > wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Len, > > >   > > > On the money as always.  BUT here's a cut and paste from our old > > friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder:  "If this is an > > aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > > > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 > > > Weight of the empty tank is about 200 #".  > > >   > > > Now please note what these folks just said about > > > the glass thickness?  Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank > > is "bowing"?   I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and > I've > > been away from the hobby for a while.  I know a lot was been done > > with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of > > water pressure. > > >   > > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the math > > and came up at 92.2 gallons.  Neverless the less, a most usual > tank.  > > It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right > out of > > my reach.  The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which > > then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would > not > > like that one bit.  I really hate to let this one go. > > >   > > > Bill   > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > > > > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to change > > depending > > > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... > > probably > > > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > > > > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe > > around 150 > > > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those > > measurements add > > > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds > when > > full. > > > > > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning > > substrate > > > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > > > > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. > > htm has filled > > > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water to > > get > > > approximate tank weight when empty. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > yahoogroups. com] On > > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > > > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the > Internet. > > I have > > > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > > problem last > > > night. > > > > > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight > empty? > > > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > > > > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before > anywhere. > > This > > > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > that > > the > > > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself > > that this > > > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone > > offer some > > > help here? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message > clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > > > Tested on: 11/21/2008 12:53:17 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33432	From: bill1433	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

all due respect Len, "Over there is 75 miles one way!  Check the back posting on the stand.  I couldn't come in first in a one man foot race!   Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 10:21 PM GlassCages.com sells a 118G with similar dimensions. The seller could be advertising it as 3' tall when the tank might be 31" tall and the canopy is 5" tall.. or something like that. But the footprint on this one is the same 36" x 24", except it's only 31" tall. http://www.glasscag es.com/?sAction= ViewCat <http://www.glasscag es.com/?sAction= ViewCat&lCatID= 2> &lCatID=2 118 Gal. 36 x 24 x 31 Tall $375 Bill just needs to get his ruler over there and check things out. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Hey my new tank kinda looks like that one, LOL. Except I think the bottom part is more open because she has it covered with a piece of fabric ;) Thanks for clarifying, though that craigslist pic is not the greatest quality to see how good of a tank it is ;) I was also thinking it may be home made since it looks like they made it to fit that space, LOL. It's just wide enough to not block the doorway ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I think the bottom black plastic frame is dropped down inside the > stand trim. Many aquarium stands have trim that goes up and covers the > bottom plastic and then the canopy covers the top plastic... like this > one... I picked a lighter colored stand/canopy to show how the trim > hides the black plastic tank frame. > http://www.marinela nd.com/images/ marineland/ catalog/4ftpined eeplive_26 > 8.jpg > <http://www.marinela nd.com/images/ marineland/ catalog/4ftpined eeplive_2 > 68.jpg> > <http://www.marinela nd.com/images/ marineland/ catalog/4ftpined eeplive_2 > 68.jpg > <http://www.marinela nd.com/images/ marineland/ catalog/4ftpined eeplive_2 > 68.jpg> > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > By my eye it looks home made to me, it doesn't have the usual trim > around the bottom but that picture is not the greatest, it could have > a brown trim, not sure. The fact that it has a custom hood makes you > wonder if it's home made though. > Good luck :) > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Again Ray, > > > > Listen I should have included you in this from the start. If you > > still have a mind to, here is the orginal posting and where it came > > from for you to review. > > Sorry for being thoughtless on this point. > > > > http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html > > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html> > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html> > > > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html > > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html> > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html> >> > > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html > > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html> > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html> > > > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html > > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html> > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html > <http://lancaster. craigslist. org/fuo/92709078 9.html> >> > > > > > back when you can, > > > > sonny > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com > > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com>> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com > > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 6:45 PM > > > > OOHH!!! Yeah, 1/4" plate on a tank like that would have me more than > > nervous. Like at what time of the early morning an on which day is > > it going to let go -- with THE GREAT FLOOD. Could be this is a home- > > made tank(?). Or perhaps its one designed ONLY for reptiles. Glass > > Cages makes reptile tanks, but I guess you may have seen on their > > web site > > -- they specify what they're to be used for. > > > > In all fairness to any prospective customer, and not meant to bash > > Glass Cages, but I have heard some first-hand reports from several > > member in my club that a few of the tanks Glass Cages brought to one > > of our shows leaked when they bought them. Yet, having bought one (a > > 40 gallon breeder) from the same batch the same day, mine hasn't > > leaked yet. Seems like they may not have used enough sealant on a > > few, or they had a bad day with a few isolated incidences. I would > > not hold that against them, as that's easily remedied with adding > > some of your own silicone in the needed corner, but it shows what > > you can expect even if its a remote possibility. Maybe they were > > breaking in a new helper that week, or were in a hurry to get those tanks to our show. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Right Ray, > > > > > > But the seller of this tank said it was only a 1/4" thick plate > > glass! > > > That's what had me a bit nervous. If I have to buy a new tank at > > all, no matter > > > what size it is, it will come from Glass Cages believe me. I've > > never heard one bad word about them and only good things. When folks > > make a product that well they are certainly entitled to any business > > I can give them. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, It doesn't surprise me when you say a tank of this size > > > using 1/2" plate glass would weigh around 200 #'s empty, similar > > > to what Glass Cages is quoting. By the use of this thickness > > > material in this size tank, I'd guess this might even be a Glass > > > Cages tank you found, especially as this is not a standard sized > > > tank that I know of. Besides, Glass Cages always uses heavier > > > material in their aquariums, even if not needed (they do make > > > good, heavy duty > > tanks). > > > I had them make a bunch of 13 gallon tanks for me using a ten > > gallon > > > footprint, only higher. They insisted on using 1/4 plate glass for > > > them -- and only charged me $14 each. > > > > > > As Lenny says though, there's really no reason why the tank should > > > bow noticeably, as the top frame should prevent this, although all > > > large tanks will bow a little. Its just part of what can be > > expected > > > of them as part of the game, although it can make you nervous. > > > > > > Lenny was close in estimating the empty weight of this tank, had > > > it been made by another tank manufacturer. Checking All Glass > > > Aquarium's catalog, while they don't offer this size tank, their > > 48" > > > x 24" x 25" (120 gallon) tank weighs 191 #'s empty, and this has > > > about 25% more material in it (its 4' long rather than 3' long). > > > So by this, a 3' long tank with the same width and height (if they > > made > > > one) would weigh about 143 #'s. They don't use as heavy of glass; > > > they use 3/8" plate, not 1/2". Now you can see how Glass Cages' > > > tanks are built so much stronger. Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Len, > > > > > > > > On the money as always. BUT here's a cut and paste from our old > > > friends at Glass Cages that made me wonder: "If this is an > > > aquarium , the glass thickness is 1/2". > > > > 36 x 24 x 24 tall glass aquarium costs $ 336.00 Weight of the > > > > empty tank is about 200 #". > > > > > > > > Now please note what these folks just said about the glass > > > > thickness? Maybe that's why they are selling it? Tank > > > is "bowing"? I would have thought 1/2 plate glass myself, and > > I've > > > been away from the hobby for a while. I know a lot was been done > > > with tempered glass these days but still, that's an awful lot of > > > water pressure. > > > > > > > > I bumped the measurements back a 1/2' to get inside, did the > > > > math > > > and came up at 92.2 gallons. Neverless the less, a most usual > > tank. > > > It came with a beautiful stand which took the whole item right > > out of > > > my reach. The stand, custom made, was at a width of 3 1/2' which > > > then would put the tank 1 1/2" into my doorway and the CEO would > > not > > > like that one bit. I really hate to let this one go. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@ ..> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 1:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.alysta. com/books/ fishtank. htm > > > > > > > > The above is for standard sized glass tanks but subject to > > > > change > > > depending > > > > on manufacturer and of course, acrylic is much, much lighter... > > > probably > > > > 1/4th the weight when empty. > > > > > > > > It's not going to be in the 400 pound range when empty.. maybe > > > around 150 > > > > pounds... still heavy but not as bad as you think. Those > > > measurements add > > > > up to a 90G tank... so it will weigh around 900 - 1,000 pounds > > when > > > full. > > > > > > > > The 24" tall will require stronger lighting if you are planning > > > substrate > > > > level plants that require moderate+ lighting. > > > > > > > > http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ cs/tipsandtables /l/bltanksize. > > > htm has filled > > > > weights but you could just deduct 8 pounds per gallon of water > > > > to > > > get > > > > approximate tank weight when empty. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > > > referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > > yahoogroups. com] On > > > > Behalf Of bill1433 > > > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:04 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the > > Internet. > > > I have > > > > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > > > problem last > > > > night. > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight > > empty? > > > > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > > > > > > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before > > anywhere. > > > This > > > > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > > that > > > the > > > > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself > > > that this > > > > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone > > > offer some > > > > help here? > > > > > > > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 > 9:02:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:16:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 9:21:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: another day, another adventure.....

If you are going to reuse the filters and media... and I would be inclined to if they were in good shape and you have more time than money... then clean them of as much gunk as possible under your sink and then boil the media for a 15-30 minutes depending on the density of the media (bio-balls, ceramic bio-media, etc... longer... sponges and floss pads less). For the filter hardware, soaking what you can and wiping down everything else with a brine salt water solution and letting it soak for 30 minutes will kill 99% of the nasties. Rinsing and letting air dry should do the rest of the job. Oops.. I may have mis-read your post. If you were asking about using a tray of your existing filter system, yes that would work to seed and quick start the cycling on the new tank. Read my recent thread with.. I think Lisa or maybe Amber (too many folks with new startups right now.. lol) about how much media to use as a proportion to the number of fish you'll be putting in the new tank. We discussed this in great detail in that thread. Once again, depending on your budget, you could go with a 48" two bulb fluorescent shop light fixture for $30.00 (incl. bulbs) (total of only 80 Watts) on up to hundreds of dollars. For more lighting, go with two of these two bulb shop light fixtures or a four bulb fixture for a total of 160 watts. That would give you 1.6 watts per gallon which is pretty good for most easy to moderate plants... if you were planning on live plants. Your next step up would be CFL's (compact fluorescent lights) and Amber recently posted info and prices in Bill's New Tank thread for the best prices she found on eBay, etc. After scrubbing the glass with a teflon scrubby pad to get the big stuff off, rinse and drain. Then use the same brine salt water to scrub it again to kill any nasties. Then use plain white vinegar to clean the glass and trim to remove any hard water build-up. Rinse and things should start to look a lot nicer by that point. Try to ask your questions and number them (or in separate paragraphs) in follow-up posts to make sure we can try to keep things organized. Then on the seventh day, you can rest. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] another day, another adventure..... Well, today my new (used) tank arrived. It's a 100 gallon tank on a stand with some boxes of nasty stuff which may or may not be usable. I hadn't seen it before today so didn't know what to expect and I'm *hoping* some of the equipment will be usable although there is no lighting included. So new lighting is a necessity but the dimensions, 60" X 17" seem kind of uncommon. The tank is 24 inches deep which presents more challenges as it's too tall to reach into from the ground. It's covered with dried algae, but I think we'll be able to run a siphon hose out a nearby window which should help the cleanup. The stand is nice; a golden oak affair with three roll-out drawers down the middle and two big cabinets on either end. There are two huge HOB filters and two BIG powerheads with filter attachments but everything is so cruddy, I don't know if it would be safe to try to clean and use them. Everything was running when my husband looked at and purchased the tank, but it had been a long while since they had bothered to purchase or use the filter inserts. I'm kind of overwhelmed by the amount of preparation this is going to require. I'm thinking I can use some material from the canister filter ( Marineland C-360) in the 75-G. It's due for a cleaning but the material is in stacking trays. Would just placing one of those trays into the new tank work to start the N.Cycle? I have a million questions, but need to decide if I can use the filters that came with or if we need to purchase new.Any encouragement or ideas where to find the lighting fixtures will be appreciated. Thanks, Jackie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 10:56:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33434	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: Re: Live Plants/Lisa

Thanks guys     Lisa   Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33435	From: Lisa	Date: 11/21/2008
Subject: What is this brown stuff?

My 22gal is still cycleing, only now the inside of the glass is starting to get these brown dirty spots. They're only tiny at the moment, but they are as irritating as all hell! I have a magnetic tank cleaner now, and that doesn't seem to move it. ...unless i just keep going over it every now and then till it breaks down... Water peramiters; niterate, niterate, amonia, ph, alkilinaty, and hardness are all as they should be. For future refrence, what is a good algee eater fish? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33436	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?

Lisa, Diatoms (sometimes erroneously called Brown Algae) are very common in newly set up tanks due to excess silicates in the water and not having an established ecosystem yet. Just brush them off and vacuum them up with each PWC. They're not harmful to anything and will usually go away on their own in a few to several weeks. The magnetic cleaner should work on this stuff. It's not usually that sticky compared to other real algaes. Read... http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/algae.htm#brown and for more details http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 12:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What is this brown stuff? My 22gal is still cycleing, only now the inside of the glass is starting to get these brown dirty spots. They're only tiny at the moment, but they are as irritating as all hell! I have a magnetic tank cleaner now, and that doesn't seem to move it. ...unless i just keep going over it every now and then till it breaks down... Water peramiters; niterate, niterate, amonia, ph, alkilinaty, and hardness are all as they should be. For future refrence, what is a good algee eater fish? Thanks Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 2:36:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33437	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Multiple father guppies.

Yes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Multiple father guppies. Hi all, can a female fancy guppy carry breeds (fry) from multiple males at a time. (the little hussies) lol. ? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33438	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Multiple father guppies.

Thank you Steve. --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple father guppies. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 10:02 AM Yes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Philip Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Multiple father guppies. Hi all, can a female fancy guppy carry breeds (fry) from multiple males at a time. (the little hussies) lol. ? ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33439	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: another day, another adventure.....

Thanks, Lenny.  Reading this I feel less panicked about the whole thing and more optimistic.  I'll start scrubbing one of the big filters this morning and try to unearth some info about the manufacturer to find the appropriate stuff that goes inside.  The previous owner was running these filters empty for what looks like a good while...gee, I wonder why everything's so filthy.  I have been following, with interest, all the threads on new setups; I was just unsure of the feasability of trying to resurrect this stuff.  The light info was helpful, too.  I will be needing the glass covers, first, and then will probably go with the compact fluorescent lighting, although I seldom use the second tube on the other tank. So, thanks again for the advice and I'll try to keep my questions more organized in the future.  <g> Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:56:56 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] another day, another adventure..... If you are going to reuse the filters and media... and I would be inclined to if they were in good shape and you have more time than money... then clean them of as much gunk as possible under your sink and then boil the media for a 15-30 minutes depending on the density of the media (bio-balls, ceramic bio-media, etc... longer... sponges and floss pads less). For the filter hardware, soaking what you can and wiping down everything else with a brine salt water solution and letting it soak for 30 minutes will kill 99% of the nasties. Rinsing and letting air dry should do the rest of the job. Oops.. I may have mis-read your post. If you were asking about using a tray of your existing filter system, yes that would work to seed and quick start the cycling on the new tank. Read my recent thread with.. I think Lisa or maybe Amber (too many folks with new startups right now.. lol) about how much media to use as a proportion to the number of fish you'll be putting in the new tank. We discussed this in great detail in that thread. Once again, depending on your budget, you could go with a 48" two bulb fluorescent shop light fixture for $30.00 (incl. bulbs) (total of only 80 Watts) on up to hundreds of dollars. For more lighting, go with two of these two bulb shop light fixtures or a four bulb fixture for a total of 160 watts. That would give you 1.6 watts per gallon which is pretty good for most easy to moderate plants... if you were planning on live plants. Your next step up would be CFL's (compact fluorescent lights) and Amber recently posted info and prices in Bill's New Tank thread for the best prices she found on eBay, etc. After scrubbing the glass with a teflon scrubby pad to get the big stuff off, rinse and drain. Then use the same brine salt water to scrub it again to kill any nasties. Then use plain white vinegar to clean the glass and trim to remove any hard water build-up. Rinse and things should start to look a lot nicer by that point. Try to ask your questions and number them (or in separate paragraphs) in follow-up posts to make sure we can try to keep things organized. Then on the seventh day, you can rest. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] another day, another adventure..... Well, today my new (used) tank arrived. It's a 100 gallon tank on a stand with some boxes of nasty stuff which may or may not be usable. I hadn't seen it before today so didn't know what to expect and I'm *hoping* some of the equipment will be usable although there is no lighting included. So new lighting is a necessity but the dimensions, 60" X 17" seem kind of uncommon. The tank is 24 inches deep which presents more challenges as it's too tall to reach into from the ground. It's covered with dried algae, but I think we'll be able to run a siphon hose out a nearby window which should help the cleanup. The stand is nice; a golden oak affair with three roll-out drawers down the middle and two big cabinets on either end. There are two huge HOB filters and two BIG powerheads with filter attachments but everything is so cruddy, I don't know if it would be safe to try to clean and use them. Everything was running when my husband looked at and purchased the tank, but it had been a long while since they had bothered to purchase or use the filter inserts. I'm kind of overwhelmed by the amount of preparation this is going to require. I'm thinking I can use some material from the canister filter ( Marineland C-360) in the 75-G. It's due for a cleaning but the material is in stacking trays. Would just placing one of those trays into the new tank work to start the N.Cycle? I have a million questions, but need to decide if I can use the filters that came with or if we need to purchase new.Any encouragement or ideas where to find the lighting fixtures will be appreciated. Thanks, Jackie _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/21/2008 10:56:56 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33440	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Bill, I see that Ray has already answered you, and, as I suspected, he has a few years on me. There are a number of people who have an interest in the history of the hobby and collect the literature, maintaining libraries of it. Some collect the hardware from the early years, when it can be found--eBay often offers this stuff. Then, of course, there are those who were there, and worked with some of the people who are now icons in the hobby. If you do have an interest in the aquarium hobby, there is a list on Yahoo! that you can check out. It is the Aquarium Hobby Historical Society (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety/). It is a fairly light traffic list, unless a hot topic comes up when everyone has an angle or a story to tell on the subject at hand, so it should not be too taxing on those who already have a heavy e-mail load. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) Hi Ray,   I too was most interested in your "History" lessens.  But I must ask a personal question here? <grin>.  Did you write that material up based on research from the Internet or was the material actually based on "Rays Personal Experience"?  Why am I asking?  Well I don't know how old Ray is, but I do know how old Bill is and when you start talking about the old box filters and Danner & Supreme air pumps and filter boxes, I could member my Mom cursing under her breath trying to get a siphon started for those filters.    I remember also that they had a small t-joint in the bottom portion of the return plastic tubing loop.  At this joint and air-line was plugged in and when the siphon was started the air line was used to push or raise the water back into the tank.  That my friend was m-a-n-y years ago! <big grin>!   As Bob Hope use to say "Thanks For The Memories"!   Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 12:01 AM Joe, Glad to bring back some memories of the days of yor. Some of the newer hobbyists may not necessarily appreciate the history lesson, only as they haven't been there, but it does give insight in that power filters were not always a part of the scene -- just as all- glass tanks were not always the normal "shape of things." Depending on the model (and probably how new it is), some AquaMaster "J" (inlet) tubes are double-wide and can't use just a finger to close off the end. You need to use their specially shaped end cap to seal off these tubes, which can be a royal pain. Better off just buying a few 3/4" round filter tubes; saves a lot of headaches. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jett07002" <jett07002@. ..> wrote: > > > Thanks \\Steve// and Ray for that stroll down memory lane. Brought > back many a happy moment and I read all your comments with a smile of > recognition to the old days. > > I still have one of Danner's "Supreme Dynaflow" pumps. The two piston > jobs. Housing got a little rusty but it still runs. (Keep them > washers oiled!) > > Have three AquaMasters and they are still running, also. Hardest part > about using them is getting the intake "J" tubes to bring the water in > the box. LOL > > Thanks for going through the bother of the history lesson. I enjoyed > reading it. ;O) > > joe t > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve//, No need for any corrections here, but as I've seen the > > first introduction of these new (power) filters first-hand, with them > > I've always found the subject of power filters interesting. With > > your urging I'd be glad to add to this topic. At the time they first > > came on the market, they were nothing short of one of the greatest > > innovations in the aquarium hobby to that date and a refreshingly new > > revolutionary way to filter your aquariums... ....... > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33441	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Bill (or anyone else interested in the history of the hobby), As can be imagined, the Archives of the historical group that \\Steve// mentions is a wealth of information to browse through at your leisure, and if you have any interest at all in the beginnings of our hobby I'm sure you'd be fascinated by it. You can't find aquarium literature to read today on these old subjects equal to this unless you have access to an old aquarium related library -- or unless you have a time machine. We have 137 members in the group, many of them quite well known and some of them aquarium legends, which many of us have been fortunate enough to befriend over time -- some, a good number (50) of years back and some more recently. I'm sure there must be many more than just us 137 aquarists whom have an interest in our hobby, but the group is made up of long-time dedicated persona in this field reaching back as far as our oldest members have been in the hobby, with the combined interest of reaching back to all aspects of the hobby's beginnings. The group is open to anyone with such an interest, and everyone is welcome to join. Up to date, there are some 8076 posts in the Archives, many of them consisting of a combined knowledge of all those who have contributed towards them. Then too, some of these posts are merely acknowledgments of reply receipts, etc., as part of civil geniality as can be expected in friendly exchanges. While this can't compare in numbers to our 33,440+ messages on record here, those posts are coming from some of the most knowledgeable hobbyists/aquarists still living. If there's anything about the progression of the hobby you'd like to know which hasn't been covered yet, the guys are just eager to discuss such topics and I'm sure you won't be at a loss for information forthcoming. We're talking about literally thousands of combined years of actual experience in living through the hobby as it grew. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > I see that Ray has already answered you, and, as I suspected, he has a few years on me. There are a number of people who have an interest in the history of the hobby and collect the literature, maintaining libraries of it. Some collect the hardware from the early years, when it can be found--eBay often offers this stuff. Then, of course, there are those who were there, and worked with some of the people who are now icons in the hobby. > > If you do have an interest in the aquarium hobby, there is a list on Yahoo! that you can check out. It is the Aquarium Hobby Historical Society (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety/). It is a fairly light traffic list, unless a hot topic comes up when everyone has an angle or a story to tell on the subject at hand, so it should not be too taxing on those who already have a heavy e-mail load. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) > > Hi Ray, >   > I too was most interested in your "History" lessens.  But I must ask > a personal question here? <grin>.  Did you write that material up based > on research from the Internet or was the material actually based > on "Rays Personal Experience"?  Why am I asking?  Well I don't know > how old Ray is, but I do know how old Bill is and when you start talking > about the old box filters and Danner & Supreme air pumps and filter boxes, I could member my Mom cursing under her breath trying to get a siphon started for those filters.  >   > I remember also that they had a small t-joint in the bottom portion of the return plastic tubing loop.  At this joint and air-line was plugged in and when the siphon was started the air line was used to push or raise the water back into the tank.  That my friend was m-a-n- y years ago! <big grin>! >   > As Bob Hope use to say "Thanks For The Memories"! >   > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 12:01 AM > > > > > > > Joe, Glad to bring back some memories of the days of yor. Some of > the newer hobbyists may not necessarily appreciate the history > lesson, only as they haven't been there, but it does give insight in > that power filters were not always a part of the scene -- just as all- > glass tanks were not always the normal "shape of things." > > Depending on the model (and probably how new it is), some > AquaMaster "J" (inlet) tubes are double-wide and can't use just a > finger to close off the end. You need to use their specially shaped > end cap to seal off these tubes, which can be a royal pain. Better > off just buying a few 3/4" round filter tubes; saves a lot of > headaches. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jett07002" <jett07002@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks \\Steve// and Ray for that stroll down memory lane. Brought > > back many a happy moment and I read all your comments with a smile > of > > recognition to the old days. > > > > I still have one of Danner's "Supreme Dynaflow" pumps. The two > piston > > jobs. Housing got a little rusty but it still runs. (Keep them > > washers oiled!) > > > > Have three AquaMasters and they are still running, also. Hardest > part > > about using them is getting the intake "J" tubes to bring the water > in > > the box. LOL > > > > Thanks for going through the bother of the history lesson. I > enjoyed > > reading it. ;O) > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > Hi \\Steve//, No need for any corrections here, but as I've seen > the > > > first introduction of these new (power) filters first-hand, with > them > > > I've always found the subject of power filters interesting. With > > > your urging I'd be glad to add to this topic. At the time they > first > > > came on the market, they were nothing short of one of the > greatest > > > innovations in the aquarium hobby to that date and a refreshingly > new > > > revolutionary way to filter your aquariums... ....... > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33442	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

\\Steve// � Good Morning! � Nice to hear from you again, and thanks for the link, I signed up and waiting for confirmation/approval. � It�s probably possible that I may also have a few years on you too. Ray sent one mail back calling me �sonny�, it brought back a lot of memories for me!� Nobody�s called me that in quite awhile. � I guess going through your mail (I hope you�ve eased up a bit on those work hours?)------talk about getting old?� That�ll do it to you quick! � Anyway, you must�ve seen my latest go-around on trying to get a tank. So there�s nothing to report there.� I told Len the other day that I�ll be thankful if I can something off the ground by Christmas! � Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 10:43 AM Bill, I see that Ray has already answered you, and, as I suspected, he has a few years on me. There are a number of people who have an interest in the history of the hobby and collect the literature, maintaining libraries of it. Some collect the hardware from the early years, when it can be found--eBay often offers this stuff. Then, of course, there are those who were there, and worked with some of the people who are now icons in the hobby. If you do have an interest in the aquarium hobby, there is a list on Yahoo! that you can check out. It is the Aquarium Hobby Historical Society (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquariumHo bbyHistoricalSoc iety/). It is a fairly light traffic list, unless a hot topic comes up when everyone has an angle or a story to tell on the subject at hand, so it should not be too taxing on those who already have a heavy e-mail load. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) Hi Ray, � I too was most interested in your "History" lessens.� But I must ask a personal question here? <grin>.� Did you write that material up based on research from the Internet or was the material actually based on "Rays Personal Experience"?� Why am I asking?� Well I don't know how old Ray is, but I do know how old Bill is and when you start talking about the old box filters and Danner & Supreme air pumps and filter boxes, I could member my Mom cursing under her breath trying to get a siphon started for those filters.� � I remember also that they had a small t-joint in the bottom portion of the return plastic tubing loop.� At this joint and air-line was plugged in and when the siphon was started the air line was used to push�or raise the water back into the tank.� That my friend was m-a-n-y years ago! <big grin>! � As Bob Hope use to say "Thanks For The Memories"! � Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 12:01 AM Joe, Glad to bring back some memories of the days of yor. Some of the newer hobbyists may not necessarily appreciate the history lesson, only as they haven't been there, but it does give insight in that power filters were not always a part of the scene -- just as all- glass tanks were not always the normal "shape of things." Depending on the model (and probably how new it is), some AquaMaster "J" (inlet) tubes are double-wide and can't use just a finger to close off the end. You need to use their specially shaped end cap to seal off these tubes, which can be a royal pain. Better off just buying a few 3/4" round filter tubes; saves a lot of headaches. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jett07002" <jett07002@. ..> wrote: > > > Thanks \\Steve// and Ray for that stroll down memory lane. Brought > back many a happy moment and I read all your comments with a smile of > recognition to the old days. > > I still have one of Danner's "Supreme Dynaflow" pumps. The two piston > jobs. Housing got a little rusty but it still runs. (Keep them > washers oiled!) > > Have three AquaMasters and they are still running, also. Hardest part > about using them is getting the intake "J" tubes to bring the water in > the box. LOL > > Thanks for going through the bother of the history lesson. I enjoyed > reading it. ;O) > > joe t > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve//, No need for any corrections here, but as I've seen the > > first introduction of these new (power) filters first-hand, with them > > I've always found the subject of power filters interesting. With > > your urging I'd be glad to add to this topic. At the time they first > > came on the market, they were nothing short of one of the greatest > > innovations in the aquarium hobby to that date and a refreshingly new > > revolutionary way to filter your aquariums... ....... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33443	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:)

Boy you guys are bringing back a lot of memories. My first tank was a 10 gallon tank with Gold Fish, � That was 51 years ago. I don't remember a whole lot about it, but I know it was in operation for several years and don't think I ever had to replace the original fish. � John in Nevada --- On Sat, 11/22/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 8:06 AM \\Steve// � Good Morning! � Nice to hear from you again, and thanks for the link, I signed up and waiting for confirmation/approval. � It�s probably possible that I may also have a few years on you too. Ray sent one mail back calling me �sonny�, it brought back a lot of memories for me!� Nobody�s called me that in quite awhile. � I guess going through your mail (I hope you�ve eased up a bit on those work hours?)------talk about getting old?� That�ll do it to you quick! � Anyway, you must�ve seen my latest go-around on trying to get a tank. So there�s nothing to report there.� I told Len the other day that I�ll be thankful if I can something off the ground by Christmas! � Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 10:43 AM Bill, I see that Ray has already answered you, and, as I suspected, he has a few years on me. There are a number of people who have an interest in the history of the hobby and collect the literature, maintaining libraries of it. Some collect the hardware from the early years, when it can be found--eBay often offers this stuff. Then, of course, there are those who were there, and worked with some of the people who are now icons in the hobby. If you do have an interest in the aquarium hobby, there is a list on Yahoo! that you can check out. It is the Aquarium Hobby Historical Society (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquariumHo bbyHistoricalSoc iety/). It is a fairly light traffic list, unless a hot topic comes up when everyone has an angle or a story to tell on the subject at hand, so it should not be too taxing on those who already have a heavy e-mail load. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) Hi Ray, � I too was most interested in your "History" lessens.� But I must ask a personal question here? <grin>.� Did you write that material up based on research from the Internet or was the material actually based on "Rays Personal Experience"?� Why am I asking?� Well I don't know how old Ray is, but I do know how old Bill is and when you start talking about the old box filters and Danner & Supreme air pumps and filter boxes, I could member my Mom cursing under her breath trying to get a siphon started for those filters.� � I remember also that they had a small t-joint in the bottom portion of the return plastic tubing loop.� At this joint and air-line was plugged in and when the siphon was started the air line was used to push�or raise the water back into the tank.� That my friend was m-a-n-y years ago! <big grin>! � As Bob Hope use to say "Thanks For The Memories"! � Bill --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: Re: Power Filters WAS: (RE: [AquaticLife] starting a tank:) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 12:01 AM Joe, Glad to bring back some memories of the days of yor. Some of the newer hobbyists may not necessarily appreciate the history lesson, only as they haven't been there, but it does give insight in that power filters were not always a part of the scene -- just as all- glass tanks were not always the normal "shape of things." Depending on the model (and probably how new it is), some AquaMaster "J" (inlet) tubes are double-wide and can't use just a finger to close off the end. You need to use their specially shaped end cap to seal off these tubes, which can be a royal pain. Better off just buying a few 3/4" round filter tubes; saves a lot of headaches. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jett07002" <jett07002@. ..> wrote: > > > Thanks \\Steve// and Ray for that stroll down memory lane. Brought > back many a happy moment and I read all your comments with a smile of > recognition to the old days. > > I still have one of Danner's "Supreme Dynaflow" pumps. The two piston > jobs. Housing got a little rusty but it still runs. (Keep them > washers oiled!) > > Have three AquaMasters and they are still running, also. Hardest part > about using them is getting the intake "J" tubes to bring the water in > the box. LOL > > Thanks for going through the bother of the history lesson. I enjoyed > reading it. ;O) > > joe t > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve//, No need for any corrections here, but as I've seen the > > first introduction of these new (power) filters first-hand, with them > > I've always found the subject of power filters interesting. With > > your urging I'd be glad to add to this topic. At the time they first > > came on the market, they were nothing short of one of the greatest > > innovations in the aquarium hobby to that date and a refreshingly new > > revolutionary way to filter your aquariums... ....... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33444	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: CO2 level in tap water

Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year?  The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2)..  It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up.  I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6.  (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap.  It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.)  After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8.  Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4.  I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days.  The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested  KH and GH on my tap water.  The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20).  The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).  Does cold weather lower GH in well water.  Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted.  It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year.  I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same.  Jimmy Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33445	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Jimmy, That is an interesting question, and I'd have to say that I really do not know. However, there is one thing you haven't considered here, or at least not mentioned, and that is the temperature of the well water. I s it cooler now than it was a few weeks ago? Cooler water will hold more gases than water that is warmer, and that may be at least part of the equation. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year?  The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2)..  It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up.  I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6.  (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap.  It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.)  After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8.  Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4.  I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days.  The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested  KH and GH on my tap water.  The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20).  The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).  Does cold weather lower GH in well water.  Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted.  It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year.  I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same.  Jimmy Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Could your water utility company change water sources during the winter time... or do you have well water? Some utilities change their sources at different times of the year... like if they use a reservoir normally but that gets low when the rainy season slows down... or now when there is no melting snow supplying a constant supply of fresh water until the spring flaw. That could be a reason for your lower GH levels from the tap. What is the temp of the tap water right out the tap? Does it vary a lot during the year? Your lower pH out the tap could possibly indicate a higher CO2 level. A simple way to check for approximate CO2 levels is to have the water temp, pH and KH using this calculator 1/2 way down on this page or the chart all the way down - http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm Considering that your 48 hour baseline is showing the pH going up nearly a full point, it's likely just a higher CO2 level that outgases. If your water temps are constant year round, then that should not be an issue but for my "city water" which is much warmer during the summer months, my pH actually goes up, rather than down, which would be the "normal" reaction with warmer water having the capability of holding more CO2, but my GH and KH goes up during the summer months due to the utility dosing them higher to counteract the higher CO2 levels and I also believe the warmer waters flowing through the pipes leach some of the hard water build-up inside of the pipes. Are you actually seeing microbubbles in the water column or forming on the glass after your PWC? What is the "limestone acid filter"? Oops.. never mind.. just read more about it here... http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water-education2/75-carbon-dioxide.htm That sounds like something ole' Bill could use. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same. Jimmy Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 3:56:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 4:29:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33447	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

No chance you can rearrange your office? Must be a little office ;) hehe. Just put your desk so it blocks the door instead, LOL. Wait, what about taking the door off of the frame? ;) Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Just got a message back on the stand; its too wide for the room and > the boss won't let me move the door-way either! Those days are gone > for me anyway. I've re-modeled two houses. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 9:51 PM > > LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". > Just kidding Bill! ;-) > > I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the > craigslist > ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be thicker since > I've > never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by Bill as 2' tall but it's > actually 3' tall according to the ad) with only 1/4" thick glass. I'm > leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" thick glass meaning my > original > weight approximation was not accurate. It's probably in the 250-300 pound > range.... getting closer to Bill's first guess at 400 pounds. > > Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing wall... or > you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total pounds > now.... but > a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the lighting.. maybe going with > quad 18" CFL's. > > Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently > looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll see > this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on > fixtures and > bulbs. > > The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it > says > "...According to Wikipedia... ". I've been burned enough times by bad info > in Wikipedia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Bill, > > Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of > glass) > gave me this: > http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE > <http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE> > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j > <http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem > last > night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the > aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some > help here? > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 8:51:56 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33448	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Lenny, Jimmy states that he has well water, otherwise I would have asked him the same question about his water supply--has the source changed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Could your water utility company change water sources during the winter time... or do you have well water? Some utilities change their sources at different times of the year... like if they use a reservoir normally but that gets low when the rainy season slows down... or now when there is no melting snow supplying a constant supply of fresh water until the spring flaw. That could be a reason for your lower GH levels from the tap. What is the temp of the tap water right out the tap? Does it vary a lot during the year? Your lower pH out the tap could possibly indicate a higher CO2 level. A simple way to check for approximate CO2 levels is to have the water temp, pH and KH using this calculator 1/2 way down on this page or the chart all the way down - http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm Considering that your 48 hour baseline is showing the pH going up nearly a full point, it's likely just a higher CO2 level that outgases. If your water temps are constant year round, then that should not be an issue but for my "city water" which is much warmer during the summer months, my pH actually goes up, rather than down, which would be the "normal" reaction with warmer water having the capability of holding more CO2, but my GH and KH goes up during the summer months due to the utility dosing them higher to counteract the higher CO2 levels and I also believe the warmer waters flowing through the pipes leach some of the hard water build-up inside of the pipes. Are you actually seeing microbubbles in the water column or forming on the glass after your PWC? What is the "limestone acid filter"? Oops.. never mind.. just read more about it here... http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water-education2/75-carbon-dioxide.htm That sounds like something ole' Bill could use. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same. Jimmy Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 3:56:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 4:29:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33449	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Thank Steve, Yes that does make since that cooler water would hold more CO2 as it does O2.  Would cooler water tend to have a lower GH than warmer water.  I tend to think that the GH migth be due to the limestone in the filter being depleted or cooler water does not pick up as much Ca from the limestone as warmer water.  Maybe the limestone is just more soluble in warmer water and that was giving a higher GH reading.  Jimmy Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:02:45 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Jimmy, That is an interesting question, and I'd have to say that I really do not know. However, there is one thing you haven't considered here, or at least not mentioned, and that is the temperature of the well water. I s it cooler now than it was a few weeks ago? Cooler water will hold more gases than water that is warmer, and that may be at least part of the equation. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year?  The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2)..  It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up.  I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6.  (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap.  It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.)  After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8.  Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4.  I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days.  The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested  KH and GH on my tap water.  The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20).  The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).  Does cold weather lower GH in well water.  Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted.  It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year.  I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same.  Jimmy Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33450	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Thanks Lenny, I have well water so there is no utility company involved.  I have not taken the actual temperature of the tap water so I don't know exactly what the temperature is.  The water that comes from deep in the ground is probable about the same temperature year around.  The way most wells that I am familiar with work is that the water is pumped from the ground into an above ground (outside) holding tank (in my case 80 gal).  The water in the tank is under pressure and that is what makes the water flow when a faucet is turned on.  When the pressure in the tank drops to a certain point the pump which is under ground comes on and fills the tank back up.  During a PWC most of the water, if not all comes from the tank.  As the temperature decreases in the fall and winter time the temperature of the water in the holding tank will decrease.  You can fill the difference especially in the early morning after a very cold night like last night and some of the previous nights the past few weeks.  Yes there has been an increase in the micro-bubbles forming on the glass and plants after a PWC.  I add water directly from the tap when I do a PWC.  As a mater of fact the water in the vial I used to check the ph out of the tap was almost solid white due to the number of bubbles.  This is not the way it appears normally during warmer months. I thank that the GH tested lower than normal because the water was colder than normal.  That I am not sure of, just what I think.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:29:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Could your water utility company change water sources during the winter time... or do you have well water? Some utilities change their sources at different times of the year... like if they use a reservoir normally but that gets low when the rainy season slows down... or now when there is no melting snow supplying a constant supply of fresh water until the spring flaw. That could be a reason for your lower GH levels from the tap. What is the temp of the tap water right out the tap? Does it vary a lot during the year? Your lower pH out the tap could possibly indicate a higher CO2 level. A simple way to check for approximate CO2 levels is to have the water temp, pH and KH using this calculator 1/2 way down on this page or the chart all the way down - http://www.csd. net/~cgadd/ aqua/art_ plant_co2chart. htm Considering that your 48 hour baseline is showing the pH going up nearly a full point, it's likely just a higher CO2 level that outgases. If your water temps are constant year round, then that should not be an issue but for my "city water" which is much warmer during the summer months, my pH actually goes up, rather than down, which would be the "normal" reaction with warmer water having the capability of holding more CO2, but my GH and KH goes up during the summer months due to the utility dosing them higher to counteract the higher CO2 levels and I also believe the warmer waters flowing through the pipes leach some of the hard water build-up inside of the pipes. Are you actually seeing microbubbles in the water column or forming on the glass after your PWC? What is the "limestone acid filter"? Oops.. never mind.. just read more about it here... http://www.freedrin kingwater. com/water- education2/ 75-carbon- dioxide..htm That sounds like something ole' Bill could use. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).. Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same. Jimmy Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 3:56:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 4:29:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33451	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

The actual problem was the corner of our dining room. It�s the only available wall space in the house.� On one side of a wall is 40� then the doorway (no door just the way) to the kitchen and on the other side 31� and a doorway (again no door way just the way) to the hall.�� Not much room for more than a standard 30-gallon but when I saw that tank�����������.at a 36� length, I guess my enthusiasm got the better of me. � The next step most probably would have been my chain saw but the Boss takes a dim view of me operating that inside of the house.� We�ll just have to keep trying. � Aren�t you supposed to be hunting Drift Wood in Alaska?� Or am I confused again.� Happens to me a lot!� Sometime I go into a room and can�t remember what I want in there for. <grin> � Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 5:25 PM No chance you can rearrange your office? Must be a little office ;) hehe. Just put your desk so it blocks the door instead, LOL. Wait, what about taking the door off of the frame? ;) Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Just got a message back on the stand; its too wide for the room and > the boss won't let me move the door-way either! Those days are gone > for me anyway. I've re-modeled two houses. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 9:51 PM > > LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". > Just kidding Bill! ;-) > > I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the > craigslist > ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be thicker since > I've > never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by Bill as 2' tall but it's > actually 3' tall according to the ad) with only 1/4" thick glass. I'm > leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" thick glass meaning my > original > weight approximation was not accurate. It's probably in the 250-300 pound > range.... getting closer to Bill's first guess at 400 pounds. > > Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing wall... or > you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total pounds > now.... but > a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the lighting.. maybe going with > quad 18" CFL's. > > Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently > looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll see > this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on > fixtures and > bulbs. > > The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it > says > "...According to Wikipedia... ". I've been burned enough times by bad info > in Wikipedia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Bill, > > Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of > glass) > gave me this: > http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE > <http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE> > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j > <http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have > been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem > last > night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This > tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the > aquarium was made from �" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this > tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some > help here? > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 > Tested on: 11/21/2008 8:51:56 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33452	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Jimmy, I have not seen anything that would indicate that the temperature of the water would have any bearing on GH or KH. I do not know that temperature would affect the solubility of the limestone, or anything else that the water would pick up into solution. Now, to make sure I've got this straight, you have the water entering your house--and then it goes through a gizmo full of lime before it goes to your taps, presumably to make the water less acid than it comes from the well. Is that correct? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Thank Steve, Yes that does make since that cooler water would hold more CO2 as it does O2.  Would cooler water tend to have a lower GH than warmer water.  I tend to think that the GH migth be due to the limestone in the filter being depleted or cooler water does not pick up as much Ca from the limestone as warmer water.  Maybe the limestone is just more soluble in warmer water and that was giving a higher GH reading.  Jimmy Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:02:45 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Jimmy, That is an interesting question, and I'd have to say that I really do not know. However, there is one thing you haven't considered here, or at least not mentioned, and that is the temperature of the well water. I s it cooler now than it was a few weeks ago? Cooler water will hold more gases than water that is warmer, and that may be at least part of the equation. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year?  The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2)..  It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up.  I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6.  (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap.  It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.)  After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8.  Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4.  I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days.  The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested  KH and GH on my tap water.  The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20).  The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).  Does cold weather lower GH in well water.  Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted.  It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year.  I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same.  Jimmy Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33453	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Jimmy, The bubbles are caused by an out gassing of whatever gases are in solution as the water temperature rises, since it can no longer hold the gas in solution. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Thanks Lenny, I have well water so there is no utility company involved.  I have not taken the actual temperature of the tap water so I don't know exactly what the temperature is.  The water that comes from deep in the ground is probable about the same temperature year around.  The way most wells that I am familiar with work is that the water is pumped from the ground into an above ground (outside) holding tank (in my case 80 gal).  The water in the tank is under pressure and that is what makes the water flow when a faucet is turned on.  When the pressure in the tank drops to a certain point the pump which is under ground comes on and fills the tank back up.  During a PWC most of the water, if not all comes from the tank.  As the temperature decreases in the fall and winter time the temperature of the water in the holding tank will decrease.  You can fill the difference especially in the early morning after a very cold night like last night and some of the previous nights the past few weeks.  Yes there has been an increase in the micro-bubbles forming on the glass and plants after a PWC.  I add water directly from the tap when I do a PWC.  As a mater of fact the water in the vial I used to check the ph out of the tap was almost solid white due to the number of bubbles.  This is not the way it appears normally during warmer months. I thank that the GH tested lower than normal because the water was colder than normal.  That I am not sure of, just what I think.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:29:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Could your water utility company change water sources during the winter time... or do you have well water? Some utilities change their sources at different times of the year... like if they use a reservoir normally but that gets low when the rainy season slows down... or now when there is no melting snow supplying a constant supply of fresh water until the spring flaw. That could be a reason for your lower GH levels from the tap. What is the temp of the tap water right out the tap? Does it vary a lot during the year? Your lower pH out the tap could possibly indicate a higher CO2 level. A simple way to check for approximate CO2 levels is to have the water temp, pH and KH using this calculator 1/2 way down on this page or the chart all the way down - http://www.csd. net/~cgadd/ aqua/art_ plant_co2chart. htm Considering that your 48 hour baseline is showing the pH going up nearly a full point, it's likely just a higher CO2 level that outgases. If your water temps are constant year round, then that should not be an issue but for my "city water" which is much warmer during the summer months, my pH actually goes up, rather than down, which would be the "normal" reaction with warmer water having the capability of holding more CO2, but my GH and KH goes up during the summer months due to the utility dosing them higher to counteract the higher CO2 levels and I also believe the warmer waters flowing through the pipes leach some of the hard water build-up inside of the pipes. Are you actually seeing microbubbles in the water column or forming on the glass after your PWC? What is the "limestone acid filter"? Oops.. never mind.. just read more about it here... http://www.freedrin kingwater. com/water- education2/ 75-carbon- dioxide..htm That sounds like something ole' Bill could use. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).. Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same. Jimmy Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33454	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

I know my warmer water during the Summer months have a higher GH and KH and I think it's from the leaching of the mineral build-up inside the pipes since the utility says they do not add that much more buffering agents during the Summer months so it must be the warmer waters. We know from basic high school chemistry that agitation and hot water will cause solids to go into solution faster than cold water without agitation. So it could be that during the summer months with the water maybe being slightly warmer as it gets nearer the surface and while it's in the holding tank, it is leaching a little more calcium carbonate from the limestone, thus raising the GH levels... though it would seem the KH levels would also increase during the Summer months as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Thanks Lenny, I have well water so there is no utility company involved. I have not taken the actual temperature of the tap water so I don't know exactly what the temperature is. The water that comes from deep in the ground is probable about the same temperature year around. The way most wells that I am familiar with work is that the water is pumped from the ground into an above ground (outside) holding tank (in my case 80 gal). The water in the tank is under pressure and that is what makes the water flow when a faucet is turned on. When the pressure in the tank drops to a certain point the pump which is under ground comes on and fills the tank back up. During a PWC most of the water, if not all comes from the tank. As the temperature decreases in the fall and winter time the temperature of the water in the holding tank will decrease. You can fill the difference especially in the early morning after a very cold night like last night and some of the previous nights the past few weeks. Yes there has been an increase in the micro-bubbles forming on the glass and plants after a PWC. I add water directly from the tap when I do a PWC. As a mater of fact the water in the vial I used to check the ph out of the tap was almost solid white due to the number of bubbles. This is not the way it appears normally during warmer months. I thank that the GH tested lower than normal because the water was colder than normal. That I am not sure of, just what I think. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:29:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Could your water utility company change water sources during the winter time... or do you have well water? Some utilities change their sources at different times of the year... like if they use a reservoir normally but that gets low when the rainy season slows down... or now when there is no melting snow supplying a constant supply of fresh water until the spring flaw. That could be a reason for your lower GH levels from the tap. What is the temp of the tap water right out the tap? Does it vary a lot during the year? Your lower pH out the tap could possibly indicate a higher CO2 level. A simple way to check for approximate CO2 levels is to have the water temp, pH and KH using this calculator 1/2 way down on this page or the chart all the way down - http://www.csd. net/~cgadd/ aqua/art_ plant_co2chart. htm Considering that your 48 hour baseline is showing the pH going up nearly a full point, it's likely just a higher CO2 level that outgases. If your water temps are constant year round, then that should not be an issue but for my "city water" which is much warmer during the summer months, my pH actually goes up, rather than down, which would be the "normal" reaction with warmer water having the capability of holding more CO2, but my GH and KH goes up during the summer months due to the utility possibly dosing them higher to counteract the higher CO2 levels and I also believe the warmer waters flowing through the pipes leach some of the hard water build-up inside of the pipes. Are you actually seeing microbubbles in the water column or forming on the glass after your PWC? What is the "limestone acid filter"? Oops.. never mind.. just read more about it here... http://www.freedrin kingwater. com/water- education2/ 75-carbon- dioxide..htm That sounds like something ole' Bill could use. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).. Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same. Jimmy Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 5:57:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33455	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Also temperature to depth comes into play.  My well is only 80' deep.  However, its water is a constant temperature of 57 degrees, year around.  I do believe that you boys taught me that CO2 levels will change by temperature.    Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 5:48 PM Lenny, Jimmy states that he has well water, otherwise I would have asked him the same question about his water supply--has the source changed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: w>AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Could your water utility company change water sources during the winter time... or do you have well water? Some utilities change their sources at different times of the year... like if they use a reservoir normally but that gets low when the rainy season slows down... or now when there is no melting snow supplying a constant supply of fresh water until the spring flaw. That could be a reason for your lower GH levels from the tap. What is the temp of the tap water right out the tap? Does it vary a lot during the year? Your lower pH out the tap could possibly indicate a higher CO2 level. A simple way to check for approximate CO2 levels is to have the water temp, pH and KH using this calculator 1/2 way down on this page or the chart all the way down - http://www.csd. net/~cgadd/ aqua/art_ plant_co2chart. htm Considering that your 48 hour baseline is showing the pH going up nearly a full point, it's likely just a higher CO2 level that outgases. If your water temps are constant year round, then that should not be an issue but for my "city water" which is much warmer during the summer months, my pH actually goes up, rather than down, which would be the "normal" reaction with warmer water having the capability of holding more CO2, but my GH and KH goes up during the summer months due to the utility dosing them higher to counteract the higher CO2 levels and I also believe the warmer waters flowing through the pipes leach some of the hard water build-up inside of the pipes. Are you actually seeing microbubbles in the water column or forming on the glass after your PWC? What is the "limestone acid filter"? Oops.. never mind.. just read more about it here... http://www.freedrin kingwater. com/water- education2/ 75-carbon- dioxide.htm That sounds like something ole' Bill could use. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same. Jimmy Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 3:56:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 4:29:48 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33456	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

No, the gizmo full of limestone is outside next to the water tank, in closed within a water house of course.  Water coming into the house does pass through the limestone filter though.  Water that I use outside for the lawn, etc. bypasses the filter coming directly from the water tank. I'll retest the GH in a week or so to see if it changes.  I did test it twice to make sure of my reading.  It tested 4 both times.  I am using an API test kit that is in date. I normally recharge the limestone filter once a year.  It prevents discoloration in the tube and toilet bowl caused by the acid water.  When the filter becomes depleted you can see the brown stain in the water. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:23:57 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Jimmy, I have not seen anything that would indicate that the temperature of the water would have any bearing on GH or KH. I do not know that temperature would affect the solubility of the limestone, or anything else that the water would pick up into solution. Now, to make sure I've got this straight, you have the water entering your house--and then it goes through a gizmo full of lime before it goes to your taps, presumably to make the water less acid than it comes from the well. Is that correct? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Thank Steve, Yes that does make since that cooler water would hold more CO2 as it does O2.  Would cooler water tend to have a lower GH than warmer water.  I tend to think that the GH migth be due to the limestone in the filter being depleted or cooler water does not pick up as much Ca from the limestone as warmer water.  Maybe the limestone is just more soluble in warmer water and that was giving a higher GH reading.  Jimmy Husser, LA ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:02:45 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Jimmy, That is an interesting question, and I'd have to say that I really do not know. However, there is one thing you haven't considered here, or at least not mentioned, and that is the temperature of the well water. I s it cooler now than it was a few weeks ago? Cooler water will hold more gases than water that is warmer, and that may be at least part of the equation. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year?  The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2)..  It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up.  I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6.  (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap.  It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.)  After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8.  Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4.  I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days.  The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested  KH and GH on my tap water.  The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20).  The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).  Does cold weather lower GH in well water.  Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted.  It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year.  I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same.  Jimmy Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33457	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

The KH seems to be very stable.  Until I can retest the GH I am going to assume the same.  Water here has always been moderately soft.  The deposits on the aquarium and filters can be rubbed off with just a damp cloth.  No vinegar needed.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail..com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:57:12 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water I know my warmer water during the Summer months have a higher GH and KH and I think it's from the leaching of the mineral build-up inside the pipes since the utility says they do not add that much more buffering agents during the Summer months so it must be the warmer waters. We know from basic high school chemistry that agitation and hot water will cause solids to go into solution faster than cold water without agitation. So it could be that during the summer months with the water maybe being slightly warmer as it gets nearer the surface and while it's in the holding tank, it is leaching a little more calcium carbonate from the limestone, thus raising the GH levels... though it would seem the KH levels would also increase during the Summer months as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:02 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Thanks Lenny, I have well water so there is no utility company involved. I have not taken the actual temperature of the tap water so I don't know exactly what the temperature is. The water that comes from deep in the ground is probable about the same temperature year around. The way most wells that I am familiar with work is that the water is pumped from the ground into an above ground (outside) holding tank (in my case 80 gal). The water in the tank is under pressure and that is what makes the water flow when a faucet is turned on. When the pressure in the tank drops to a certain point the pump which is under ground comes on and fills the tank back up. During a PWC most of the water, if not all comes from the tank. As the temperature decreases in the fall and winter time the temperature of the water in the holding tank will decrease. You can fill the difference especially in the early morning after a very cold night like last night and some of the previous nights the past few weeks. Yes there has been an increase in the micro-bubbles forming on the glass and plants after a PWC. I add water directly from the tap when I do a PWC. As a mater of fact the water in the vial I used to check the ph out of the tap was almost solid white due to the number of bubbles. This is not the way it appears normally during warmer months. I thank that the GH tested lower than normal because the water was colder than normal. That I am not sure of, just what I think. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:29:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Could your water utility company change water sources during the winter time... or do you have well water? Some utilities change their sources at different times of the year... like if they use a reservoir normally but that gets low when the rainy season slows down... or now when there is no melting snow supplying a constant supply of fresh water until the spring flaw. That could be a reason for your lower GH levels from the tap. What is the temp of the tap water right out the tap? Does it vary a lot during the year? Your lower pH out the tap could possibly indicate a higher CO2 level. A simple way to check for approximate CO2 levels is to have the water temp, pH and KH using this calculator 1/2 way down on this page or the chart all the way down - http://www.csd. net/~cgadd/ aqua/art_ plant_co2chart. htm Considering that your 48 hour baseline is showing the pH going up nearly a full point, it's likely just a higher CO2 level that outgases. If your water temps are constant year round, then that should not be an issue but for my "city water" which is much warmer during the summer months, my pH actually goes up, rather than down, which would be the "normal" reaction with warmer water having the capability of holding more CO2, but my GH and KH goes up during the summer months due to the utility possibly dosing them higher to counteract the higher CO2 levels and I also believe the warmer waters flowing through the pipes leach some of the hard water build-up inside of the pipes. Are you actually seeing microbubbles in the water column or forming on the glass after your PWC? What is the "limestone acid filter"? Oops.. never mind.. just read more about it here... http://www.freedrin kingwater. com/water- education2/ 75-carbon- dioxide..htm That sounds like something ole' Bill could use. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 level in tap water Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is grater during the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days.. The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).. Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same. Jimmy Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 5:57:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Well... if it's your dining room, then here's your solution... 1/2 way down the page. Maybe the CEO will go with this? You could "accidentally" break your current dining room table.. maybe with a classic Dick Van Dyke trip... to further facilitate this deal. lol http://www.home-waterfalls.com/contents/en-us/d52.html (1/2 way down the page) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? The actual problem was the corner of our dining room. It’s the only available wall space in the house. On one side of a wall is 40” then the doorway (no door just the way) to the kitchen and on the other side 31” and a doorway (again no door way just the way) to the hall. Not much room for more than a standard 30-gallon but when I saw that tank .at a 36” length, I guess my enthusiasm got the better of me. The next step most probably would have been my chain saw but the Boss takes a dim view of me operating that inside of the house. We’ll just have to keep trying. Aren’t you supposed to be hunting Drift Wood in Alaska? Or am I confused again. Happens to me a lot! Sometime I go into a room and can’t remember what I want in there for. <grin> Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 5:25 PM No chance you can rearrange your office? Must be a little office ;) hehe. Just put your desk so it blocks the door instead, LOL. Wait, what about taking the door off of the frame? ;) Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Just got a message back on the stand; its too wide for the room and > the boss won't let me move the door-way either! Those days are gone > for me anyway. I've re-modeled two houses. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 9:51 PM > > LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". > Just kidding Bill! ;-) > > I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the > craigslist ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be > thicker since I've never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by > Bill as 2' tall but it's actually 3' tall according to the ad) with > only 1/4" thick glass. I'm leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" > thick glass meaning my original weight approximation was not accurate. > It's probably in the 250-300 pound range.... getting closer to Bill's > first guess at 400 pounds. > > Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing > wall... or you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total > pounds now.... but a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the > lighting.. maybe going with quad 18" CFL's. > > Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently > looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll > see this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on > fixtures and bulbs. > > The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it > says "...According to Wikipedia... ". I've been burned enough times by > bad info in Wikipedia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Bill, > > Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of > glass) > gave me this: > http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE > <http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA > QutIE> > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j > <http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I > have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > problem last night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. > This tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > that the aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to > myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. > Can anyone offer some help here? > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 6:35:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33459	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

If you had 40" to work with how come the tank wouldn't fit? Was the stand longer or something? It didn't look like it was much longer than the tank was. Yeah we didn't go driftwood hunting today, instead we had to go to the LFS to get some meds as I seem to have a case of fin and tail rot going on in my tank. I of course had to look at all the new fish they got in and you'd be jealous to know Bill, they got in Ram's hehe. I plan on getting one or two after I get my new tank up and settled in a few weeks (hopefully they'll still have them). We also went to the grocery store (oh yay.... not really). Amber bill1433 wrote: > The actual problem was the corner of our dining room. > It’s the only available wall space in the house. On one side of a > wall is 40” then the doorway (no door just the way) to the kitchen and on the other side 31” and a doorway (again no door way just the way) to the hall. Not much room for more than a standard 30-gallon but when > I saw that tank…………………………….at a 36” length, I guess my > enthusiasm got the better of me. > > The next step most probably would have been my chain saw > but the Boss takes a dim view of me operating that inside of > the house. We’ll just have to keep trying. > > Aren’t you supposed to be hunting Drift Wood in Alaska? Or am I > confused again. Happens to me a lot! Sometime I go into a room and can’t remember what I want in there for. <grin> > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 5:25 PM > > > > > > > No chance you can rearrange your office? Must be a little office ;) > hehe. Just put your desk so it blocks the door instead, LOL. Wait, what > about taking the door off of the frame? ;) > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > >> Just got a message back on the stand; its too wide for the room and >> the boss won't let me move the door-way either! Those days are gone >> for me anyway. I've re-modeled two houses. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com >> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com >> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 9:51 PM >> >> LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". >> Just kidding Bill! ;-) >> >> I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the >> craigslist >> ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be thicker since >> I've >> never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by Bill as 2' tall but it's >> actually 3' tall according to the ad) with only 1/4" thick glass. I'm >> leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" thick glass meaning my >> original >> weight approximation was not accurate. It's probably in the 250-300 pound >> range.... getting closer to Bill's first guess at 400 pounds. >> >> Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing wall... or >> you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total pounds >> now.... but >> a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the lighting.. maybe going with >> quad 18" CFL's. >> >> Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently >> looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll see >> this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on >> fixtures and >> bulbs. >> >> The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it >> says >> "...According to Wikipedia... ". I've been burned enough times by bad info >> in Wikipedia. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under >> Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. >> com] On >> Behalf Of Steve Szabo >> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? >> >> Bill, >> >> Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of >> glass) >> gave me this: >> http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE >> <http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE> >> >> TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j >> <http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j> >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife >> %40yahoogroups. com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife >> %40yahoogroups. com> ] >> On Behalf Of bill1433 >> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM >> To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have >> been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem >> last >> night. >> >> Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? >> Charts or links would be most helpful. >> >> I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This >> tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the >> aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this >> tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some >> help here? >> >> Bill >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 >> Tested on: 11/21/2008 8:51:56 PM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33460	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, you've already established that yourself, that colder water will absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the water warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in temperature over the seasons Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast as it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion of the limestone in your filter. As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during the cold months of the year?  The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2)..  It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up.  I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6.  (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap.  It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.)  After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8.  Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4.  I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days.  The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. > > I also tested  KH and GH on my tap water.  The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20).  The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).  Does cold weather lower GH in well water.  Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted.  It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year.  I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same. >  Jimmy > Husser, LA > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33461	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

Len, � Sometimes I worry that, although your hearts in the right place, I wonder if you are not trying to bring me to an early demise! It just so happens that the dining room set along with the china cabinet in the same room is her pride and joy. � She did make one comment about the tank though, �If things go wrong, we can always bury you in it! � ONWARD, � Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 7:35 PM Well... if it's your dining room, then here's your solution... 1/2 way down the page. Maybe the CEO will go with this? You could "accidentally" break your current dining room table.. maybe with a classic Dick Van Dyke trip... to further facilitate this deal. lol http://www.home- waterfalls. com/contents/ en-us/d52. html (1/2 way down the page) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? The actual problem was the corner of our dining room. It�s the only available wall space in the house. On one side of a wall is 40� then the doorway (no door just the way) to the kitchen and on the other side 31� and a doorway (again no door way just the way) to the hall. Not much room for more than a standard 30-gallon but when I saw that tank�����������.at a 36� length, I guess my enthusiasm got the better of me. The next step most probably would have been my chain saw but the Boss takes a dim view of me operating that inside of the house. We�ll just have to keep trying. Aren�t you supposed to be hunting Drift Wood in Alaska? Or am I confused again. Happens to me a lot! Sometime I go into a room and can�t remember what I want in there for. <grin> Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 5:25 PM No chance you can rearrange your office? Must be a little office ;) hehe. Just put your desk so it blocks the door instead, LOL. Wait, what about taking the door off of the frame? ;) Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Just got a message back on the stand; its too wide for the room and > the boss won't let me move the door-way either! Those days are gone > for me anyway. I've re-modeled two houses. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 9:51 PM > > LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". > Just kidding Bill! ;-) > > I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the > craigslist ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be > thicker since I've never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by > Bill as 2' tall but it's actually 3' tall according to the ad) with > only 1/4" thick glass. I'm leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" > thick glass meaning my original weight approximation was not accurate. > It's probably in the 250-300 pound range.... getting closer to Bill's > first guess at 400 pounds. > > Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing > wall... or you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total > pounds now.... but a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the > lighting.. maybe going with quad 18" CFL's. > > Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently > looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll > see this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on > fixtures and bulbs. > > The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it > says "...According to Wikipedia... ". I've been burned enough times by > bad info in Wikipedia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Bill, > > Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of > glass) > gave me this: > http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE > <http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA > QutIE> > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j > <http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I > have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > problem last night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. > This tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > that the aquarium was made from �" plate glass but I'm thinking to > myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. > Can anyone offer some help here? > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 6:35:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33462	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Okay, tank is cloudy again

As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good cleaning on the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months old). I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change earlier today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today as well and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered by it, they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had a plant that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out of my tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing the cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the cloudiness, the filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days since I cleaned it really well (in tank water). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33463	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

That was the problem alright the size of the stand at 46". � Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 8:07 PM If you had 40" to work with how come the tank wouldn't fit? Was the stand longer or something? It didn't look like it was much longer than the tank was. Yeah we didn't go driftwood hunting today, instead we had to go to the LFS to get some meds as I seem to have a case of fin and tail rot going on in my tank. I of course had to look at all the new fish they got in and you'd be jealous to know Bill, they got in Ram's hehe. I plan on getting one or two after I get my new tank up and settled in a few weeks (hopefully they'll still have them). We also went to the grocery store (oh yay.... not really). Amber bill1433 wrote: > The actual problem was the corner of our dining room. > It�s the only available wall space in the house. On one side of a > wall is 40� then the doorway (no door just the way) to the kitchen and on the other side 31� and a doorway (again no door way just the way) to the hall. Not much room for more than a standard 30-gallon but when > I saw that tank�����������.at a 36� length, I guess my > enthusiasm got the better of me. > > The next step most probably would have been my chain saw > but the Boss takes a dim view of me operating that inside of > the house. We�ll just have to keep trying. > > Aren�t you supposed to be hunting Drift Wood in Alaska? Or am I > confused again. Happens to me a lot! Sometime I go into a room and can�t remember what I want in there for. <grin> > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 5:25 PM > > > > > > > No chance you can rearrange your office? Must be a little office ;) > hehe. Just put your desk so it blocks the door instead, LOL. Wait, what > about taking the door off of the frame? ;) > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > >> Just got a message back on the stand; its too wide for the room and >> the boss won't let me move the door-way either! Those days are gone >> for me anyway. I've re-modeled two houses. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com >> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com >> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 9:51 PM >> >> LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". >> Just kidding Bill! ;-) >> >> I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the >> craigslist >> ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be thicker since >> I've >> never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by Bill as 2' tall but it's >> actually 3' tall according to the ad) with only 1/4" thick glass. I'm >> leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" thick glass meaning my >> original >> weight approximation was not accurate. It's probably in the 250-300 pound >> range.... getting closer to Bill's first guess at 400 pounds. >> >> Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing wall... or >> you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total pounds >> now.... but >> a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the lighting.. maybe going with >> quad 18" CFL's. >> >> Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently >> looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll see >> this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on >> fixtures and >> bulbs. >> >> The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it >> says >> "...According to Wikipedia... ". I've been burned enough times by bad info >> in Wikipedia. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under >> Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. >> com] On >> Behalf Of Steve Szabo >> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? >> >> Bill, >> >> Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of >> glass) >> gave me this: >> http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE >> <http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE> >> >> TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j >> <http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j> >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife >> %40yahoogroups. com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife >> %40yahoogroups. com> ] >> On Behalf Of bill1433 >> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM >> To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I have >> been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this problem >> last >> night. >> >> Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? >> Charts or links would be most helpful. >> >> I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. This >> tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say that the >> aquarium was made from �" plate glass but I'm thinking to myself that this >> tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. Can anyone offer some >> help here? >> >> Bill >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081121-0, 11/21/2008 >> Tested on: 11/21/2008 8:51:56 PM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

UH OH... back down to a 10G tank for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Len, Sometimes I worry that, although your hearts in the right place, I wonder if you are not trying to bring me to an early demise! It just so happens that the dining room set along with the china cabinet in the same room is her pride and joy. She did make one comment about the tank though, “If things go wrong, we can always bury you in it! ONWARD, Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 7:35 PM Well... if it's your dining room, then here's your solution... 1/2 way down the page. Maybe the CEO will go with this? You could "accidentally" break your current dining room table.. maybe with a classic Dick Van Dyke trip... to further facilitate this deal. lol http://www.home- waterfalls. com/contents/ en-us/d52. html (1/2 way down the page) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? The actual problem was the corner of our dining room. It’s the only available wall space in the house. On one side of a wall is 40” then the doorway (no door just the way) to the kitchen and on the other side 31” and a doorway (again no door way just the way) to the hall. Not much room for more than a standard 30-gallon but when I saw that tank .at a 36” length, I guess my enthusiasm got the better of me. The next step most probably would have been my chain saw but the Boss takes a dim view of me operating that inside of the house. We’ll just have to keep trying. Aren’t you supposed to be hunting Drift Wood in Alaska? Or am I confused again. Happens to me a lot! Sometime I go into a room and can’t remember what I want in there for. <grin> Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 5:25 PM No chance you can rearrange your office? Must be a little office ;) hehe. Just put your desk so it blocks the door instead, LOL. Wait, what about taking the door off of the frame? ;) Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Just got a message back on the stand; its too wide for the room and > the boss won't let me move the door-way either! Those days are gone > for me anyway. I've re-modeled two houses. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 9:51 PM > > LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". > Just kidding Bill! ;-) > > I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the > craigslist ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be > thicker since I've never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by > Bill as 2' tall but it's actually 3' tall according to the ad) with > only 1/4" thick glass. I'm leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" > thick glass meaning my original weight approximation was not accurate. > It's probably in the 250-300 pound range.... getting closer to Bill's > first guess at 400 pounds. > > Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing > wall... or you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total > pounds now.... but a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the > lighting.. maybe going with quad 18" CFL's. > > Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently > looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll > see this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on > fixtures and bulbs. > > The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it > says "...According to Wikipedia... ". I've been burned enough times by > bad info in Wikipedia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Bill, > > Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of > glass) > gave me this: > http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE > <http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA > QutIE> > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j > <http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I > have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > problem last night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. > This tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > that the aquarium was made from ¼" plate glass but I'm thinking to > myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. > Can anyone offer some help here? > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 6:35:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 7:45:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33465	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of your bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... meaning 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate reading? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good cleaning on the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months old). I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change earlier today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today as well and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered by it, they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had a plant that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out of my tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing the cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the cloudiness, the filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days since I cleaned it really well (in tank water). Amber ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 7:45:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 7:51:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33466	From: bill1433	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Big Tanks--Little Tanks?

No, � But I would have liked to have gotten above a 30-gallon, which is probably the best fit. Its just that when I read that tank width at 36" I went a little nuts. � Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 8:49 PM UH OH... back down to a 10G tank for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? Len, Sometimes I worry that, although your hearts in the right place, I wonder if you are not trying to bring me to an early demise! It just so happens that the dining room set along with the china cabinet in the same room is her pride and joy. She did make one comment about the tank though, �If things go wrong, we can always bury you in it! ONWARD, Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 7:35 PM Well... if it's your dining room, then here's your solution... 1/2 way down the page. Maybe the CEO will go with this? You could "accidentally" break your current dining room table.. maybe with a classic Dick Van Dyke trip... to further facilitate this deal. lol http://www.home- waterfalls. com/contents/ en-us/d52. html (1/2 way down the page) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? The actual problem was the corner of our dining room. It�s the only available wall space in the house. On one side of a wall is 40� then the doorway (no door just the way) to the kitchen and on the other side 31� and a doorway (again no door way just the way) to the hall. Not much room for more than a standard 30-gallon but when I saw that tank�����������.at a 36� length, I guess my enthusiasm got the better of me. The next step most probably would have been my chain saw but the Boss takes a dim view of me operating that inside of the house. We�ll just have to keep trying. Aren�t you supposed to be hunting Drift Wood in Alaska? Or am I confused again. Happens to me a lot! Sometime I go into a room and can�t remember what I want in there for. <grin> Bill --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose- fields. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose- fields. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 5:25 PM No chance you can rearrange your office? Must be a little office ;) hehe. Just put your desk so it blocks the door instead, LOL. Wait, what about taking the door off of the frame? ;) Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Just got a message back on the stand; its too wide for the room and > the boss won't let me move the door-way either! Those days are gone > for me anyway. I've re-modeled two houses. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% > 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 9:51 PM > > LOL... I can see Bill looking at that Yahoo! Answer and saying "Huh???". > Just kidding Bill! ;-) > > I'm also not sure if the formula will work in this case since the > craigslist ad says the glass is 1/4" but I suspect it's going to be > thicker since I've never seen a 36" tall tank (originally posted by > Bill as 2' tall but it's actually 3' tall according to the ad) with > only 1/4" thick glass. I'm leaning more towards it being at least 1/2" > thick glass meaning my original weight approximation was not accurate. > It's probably in the 250-300 pound range.... getting closer to Bill's > first guess at 400 pounds. > > Bill, I hope the wall you are putting this on is a load bearing > wall... or you're on a concrete slab. You're looking at 1,500 total > pounds now.... but a NICE sized tank. You'll need to upgrade the > lighting.. maybe going with quad 18" CFL's. > > Check with Amber from Alaska.. I think... it was she who was recently > looking at the quad CFL's and found a good price on them. Maybe she'll > see this and chime in with the source she found for good prices on > fixtures and bulbs. > > The other caveat in that Yahoo! Answer is the first paragraph where it > says "...According to Wikipedia... ". I've been burned enough times by > bad info in Wikipedia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Bill, > > Your Google-foo must be a bit off. Second hit in a search (weight of > glass) > gave me this: > http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA QutIE > <http://answers. yahoo.com/ question/ index?qid= 20061105153505AA > QutIE> > > TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j > <http://tinyurl. com/6bmp8j> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 11:04 AM > To: AquaticLife; FreshwaterAquariums > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Tanks--Little Tanks? > > Hi Folks, > > I have a question here that I can't find anywhere on the Internet. I > have been doing Tank Hunting for a while now and I came across this > problem last night. > > Does anyone know of, or how to calculate an aquariums weight empty? > Charts or links would be most helpful. > > I just saw a tank for sale that I have never seen before anywhere. > This tank is 3' Long, 2' high, and 2' wide. Now the seller did say > that the aquarium was made from �" plate glass but I'm thinking to > myself that this tank must be in at least, the 400 pound range empty. > Can anyone offer some help here? > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 6:35:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 7:45:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 7:49:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33467	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Thanks Ray.  That answers my question in regards to the lowering of the GH in colder water.  In my case water moves from the holding tank to the limestone filter and then into the house and out the tap.  The small amount of water in the filter is probably colder than the water in the tank if it has been setting over night out in the cold air.  Hence it does not dissolve much of the Ca and is giving a lower GH test than when it was warmer.  After enough water has run through the tap (80 plus gal) to warm it to ground temperature the GH might test higher.  Jimmy Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:27:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, you've already established that yourself, that colder water will absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the water warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in temperature over the seasons Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast as it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion of the limestone in your filter. As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. Ray ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@. ..> wrote: > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during the cold months of the year?  The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2)..  It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up.  I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6.  (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap.  It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.)  After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8.  Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4.  I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days.  The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. > > I also tested  KH and GH on my tap water.  The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20).  The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20).  Does cold weather lower GH in well water.  Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted.  It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year.  I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same. >  Jimmy > Husser, LA > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33468	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

so where would i find some peat moss to add to my filter? something i can pick up in the gardening center at walmart? here in lousiana we do tend to have a lot of metals in the water so i think softening up the water would help a great deal until i can do enough water changes with distilled or ro water to delute the current water, i just don't want to do too much at once and shock my system also as for the angels, i know they get huge, i've seen very very large ones, the local stores will take fish for store credit if you don't want them or if they get too big for you to house, i traded in my snakes for fish and love my fish! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have now, but > i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to neutral, i > have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't worked, > and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and that > hasn't worked > > the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has petco > pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and and > anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped around > it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would be > keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could suggest to > help sove my problem i would appreciate it >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33469	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?

Good news is you could be nearly through cycling, LOL. Those are probably diatoms, a primitive sort of algae. (Look them up in wikipedia.) Scrape them off the glass, which may take real work. Then the filter will remove them - will need to rinse it frequently in water you siphoned off from the tank. Make sure you're keeping up on your gravel cleaning and water changes. Nuisance algae of various sorts, particularly diatoms, appear in a newly cycled tank and live off the wastes in your tank - phosphates and nitrites, and they need silicates to make their glass endoskeletons or whatever. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 12:42 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] What is this brown stuff? My 22gal is still cycleing, only now the inside of the glass is starting to get these brown dirty spots. They're only tiny at the moment, but they are as irritating as all hell! I have a magnetic tank cleaner now, and that doesn't seem to move it. ...unless i just keep going over it every now and then till it breaks down... Water peramiters; niterate, niterate, amonia, ph, alkilinaty, and hardness are all as they should be. For future refrence, what is a good algee eater fish? Thanks Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33470	From: Alina	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Ich and heat

Hi all, A week ago one of my fish clearly had Ich. I started treating the tank with salt but after one dosage, I had a Cory and a mini Placo in stress. So I reduced the sality level pretty much down to nothing thru partial water changes. They're better but the Ich isn't. I've been reading a lot about using heat only to kill Ich. I realize I could have some super strong strain, but I've got nothing to lose right now. I'm slowly raising temps to 90 (or at least 86F) and hoping to maintain it for the next week to see what happens. I'm starting to think it's hopeless. And I guess I want to save everybody in the tank. Has anyone just used heat successfully? Several books mention this as a viable method. Some also suggest giving a separate "salt bath" to fish that can tolerate the salt. As always, your suggestions, thoughts, experiences, are invaluable. Let me know what you guys think. Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33471	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: so disappointed

I had been looking forward to the huge cichlid order for over a month now at my lfs, they finally made the order it came in friday and i was so disappointed, i was really hoping for some flametails or this certain one i always forget the name of... they have one in the show tank and i have a juvenile just not sure it it's male of female yet. They did get a pretty one with a red shoulder, but he was about $90 and i just spent $90 on a wild sunshine that is absolutely beautiful. they also got some swallowtails in that were pretty so i got one and a stevani taiwan, i like them but i am still looking for somehting really special and just don't know what specifically to look for or where to look, any cichlid owners out there know any really pretty types and where to find one?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33472	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and I didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today did another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The tank is still cloudy. I've already tried to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still here and there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the water the last couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too tired to care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 and nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent water changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. I removed more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out another plant that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was dying as well. The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then things should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm going to do another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not collecting too much debris. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of your > bacteria > bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... meaning 0.0ppm for ammonia > and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate reading? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good cleaning on the > filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months old). > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change earlier > today, > but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today as well and I > already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered by it, > they're all > eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had a plant that was > turning > to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out of my tank all day, is it > possible that this plant could be causing the cloudiness? It's a white > cloudiness to the tank. > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the cloudiness, the > filter > shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days since I cleaned it > really well (in tank water). > > Amber > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > Tested on: 11/22/2008 7:45:38 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > Tested on: 11/22/2008 7:51:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33473	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat

Hi Alina, No need to raise the temperature to 90 o (and further stress your fish), unless you feel you have one of the more virulent forms of Ich. The common Ich (the most prevalent form by far) cannot reproduce above 86 o. As long as you have an accurate thermometer, you need to raise the temperature only to at least 86 o. If you're not sure of its accuracy, raise it to 87 o to make sure. As the Ich drops off of the fish, as part of its cycle, the Ich spores that have fallen to the bottom will no longer be able to produce new trophonts to re-infect your fish. This process will take some time, as some of the new Ich now may yet find a host (fish) in the completion of its cycle, although at this temperate it will be weakened. Increased aeration will help in preventing any Ich from finding a host. Although not normally recommended, some Stress Coat may be added to the tank in lieu of salt to help promote a heavier slime coat on the fish. This too will help prevent any Ich from being able to gain a foothold. Maintain 86 o until three days after you see no further signs of Ich. Ich's cycle takes 48 hours at this temperature and you want o give it another 24 hours to cover any last hatchers. Do not bother will salt baths for Ich. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > A week ago one of my fish clearly had Ich. I started treating the > tank with salt but after one dosage, I had a Cory and a mini Placo in > stress. So I reduced the sality level pretty much down to nothing > thru partial water changes. They're better but the Ich isn't. > > I've been reading a lot about using heat only to kill Ich. I realize > I could have some super strong strain, but I've got nothing to lose > right now. I'm slowly raising temps to 90 (or at least 86F) and > hoping to maintain it for the next week to see what happens. > > I'm starting to think it's hopeless. And I guess I want to save > everybody in the tank. > > Has anyone just used heat successfully? Several books mention this as > a viable method. Some also suggest giving a separate "salt bath" to > fish that can tolerate the salt. > > As always, your suggestions, thoughts, experiences, are invaluable. > Let me know what you guys think. > > Alina >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33474	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

When buying peat at a garden center, you need to ensure that you get a peat brand with no additives, just pure peat. When using peat back when I was doing killies, I used the Jiffy peat blocks. I do not know if this has changed over the years or not as being a good peat source. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH problem so where would i find some peat moss to add to my filter? something i can pick up in the gardening center at walmart? here in lousiana we do tend to have a lot of metals in the water so i think softening up the water would help a great deal until i can do enough water changes with distilled or ro water to delute the current water, i just don't want to do too much at once and shock my system also as for the angels, i know they get huge, i've seen very very large ones, the local stores will take fish for store credit if you don't want them or if they get too big for you to house, i traded in my snakes for fish and love my fish! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have now, but > i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to neutral, i > have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't worked, > and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and that > hasn't worked > > the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has petco > pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and and > anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped around > it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would be > keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could suggest to > help sove my problem i would appreciate it >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33475	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more about it. The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash the plants yet. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and I didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today did another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The tank is still cloudy. I've already tried to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still here and there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the water the last couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too tired to care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 and nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent water changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. I removed more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out another plant that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was dying as well. The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then things should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm going to do another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not collecting too much debris. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of your > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... meaning > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate reading? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good cleaning on > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months old). > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change earlier > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today as well > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered by it, > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had a plant > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out of my > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing the > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the cloudiness, the > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days since I > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > Amber > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/22/2008 10:35:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33476	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: so disappointed

Sounds like you're into some of the more peaceful and showy Malawi Utaka's. While choices of these fish are usually somewhat subjective, I could suggest Aulonacara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri" from Chidunga Rocks. Aulonocara sp. "Iwanda" and Aulonocara sp. "Ruby Red" are extremely nice too. You could consider Protomelas sp. "Spilonotos Tanzania" as well, but its still hard to beat a nice Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Eureka) from Otter Island even if it isn't quite as flashy. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > I had been looking forward to the huge cichlid order for over a > month now at my lfs, they finally made the order it came in friday > and i was so disappointed, i was really hoping for some flametails > or this certain one i always forget the name of... they have one in > the show tank and i have a juvenile just not sure it it's male of > female yet. They did get a pretty one with a red shoulder, but he > was about $90 and i just spent $90 on a wild sunshine that is > absolutely beautiful. > > they also got some swallowtails in that were pretty so i got one and > a stevani taiwan, i like them but i am still looking for somehting > really special and just don't know what specifically to look for or > where to look, any cichlid owners out there know any really pretty > types and where to find one? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33477	From: Alina	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat

Ray, Thank you...I'm in the beginning of that process now, so we'll see how it goes. Glad to know you've tried this. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Alina, No need to raise the temperature to 90 o (and further > stress your fish), unless you feel you have one of the more virulent > forms of Ich. The common Ich (the most prevalent form by far) cannot > reproduce above 86 o. As long as you have an accurate thermometer, > you need to raise the temperature only to at least 86 o. If you're > not sure of its accuracy, raise it to 87 o to make sure. As the Ich > drops off of the fish, as part of its cycle, the Ich spores that have > fallen to the bottom will no longer be able to produce new trophonts > to re-infect your fish. > > This process will take some time, as some of the new Ich now may yet > find a host (fish) in the completion of its cycle, although at this > temperate it will be weakened. Increased aeration will help in > preventing any Ich from finding a host. Although not normally > recommended, some Stress Coat may be added to the tank in lieu of > salt to help promote a heavier slime coat on the fish. This too will > help prevent any Ich from being able to gain a foothold. Maintain 86 > o until three days after you see no further signs of Ich. Ich's > cycle takes 48 hours at this temperature and you want o give it > another 24 hours to cover any last hatchers. Do not bother will salt > baths for Ich. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > A week ago one of my fish clearly had Ich. I started treating the > > tank with salt but after one dosage, I had a Cory and a mini Placo > in > > stress. So I reduced the sality level pretty much down to nothing > > thru partial water changes. They're better but the Ich isn't. > > > > I've been reading a lot about using heat only to kill Ich. I > realize > > I could have some super strong strain, but I've got nothing to lose > > right now. I'm slowly raising temps to 90 (or at least 86F) and > > hoping to maintain it for the next week to see what happens. > > > > I'm starting to think it's hopeless. And I guess I want to save > > everybody in the tank. > > > > Has anyone just used heat successfully? Several books mention this > as > > a viable method. Some also suggest giving a separate "salt bath" to > > fish that can tolerate the salt. > > > > As always, your suggestions, thoughts, experiences, are invaluable. > > Let me know what you guys think. > > > > Alina > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33478	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on plantgeek.net. But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even the lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if it doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it didn't seem to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it a "bunch plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any of their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she doesn't do all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random plants that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm not getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store aren't doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help that I have a lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of current, that's what helped it fall apart. I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it was mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my cloudy tank, I want to get it back under control. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more about it. > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash the plants > yet. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and I > didn't do > any tests the last couple of days, I just today did another water > change (2 > of them within a couple hours). The tank is still cloudy. I've already > tried > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still here and > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the water the > last > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too tired to > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 and > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent water > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. I removed > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out another plant > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was dying as well. > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then things > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm going to do > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > collecting > too much debris. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of your > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... meaning > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate reading? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good cleaning on > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months old). > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change earlier > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today as well > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered by it, > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had a plant > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out of my > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing the > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the cloudiness, the > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days since I > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > Amber > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > Tested on: 11/22/2008 10:35:49 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33479	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/22/2008
Subject: Re: so disappointed

i have an ablino eureka that is one of my favorites --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Sounds like you're into some of the more peaceful and showy Malawi > Utaka's. While choices of these fish are usually somewhat > subjective, I could suggest Aulonacara sp. "Stuartgranti Maleri" from > Chidunga Rocks. Aulonocara sp. "Iwanda" and Aulonocara sp. "Ruby > Red" are extremely nice too. You could consider Protomelas > sp. "Spilonotos Tanzania" as well, but its still hard to beat a nice > Aulonocara jacobfreibergi (Eureka) from Otter Island even if it isn't > quite as flashy. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" > <courtland_jacob@> wrote: > > > > I had been looking forward to the huge cichlid order for over a > > month now at my lfs, they finally made the order it came in friday > > and i was so disappointed, i was really hoping for some flametails > > or this certain one i always forget the name of... they have one in > > the show tank and i have a juvenile just not sure it it's male of > > female yet. They did get a pretty one with a red shoulder, but he > > was about $90 and i just spent $90 on a wild sunshine that is > > absolutely beautiful. > > > > they also got some swallowtails in that were pretty so i got one > and > > a stevani taiwan, i like them but i am still looking for somehting > > really special and just don't know what specifically to look for or > > where to look, any cichlid owners out there know any really pretty > > types and where to find one? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33480	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Ray, if she lives where the well water passes through limestone, what effect might extreme drought have on the situation? Also, is the weather actually very cold? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, you've already established that yourself, that colder water will absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the water warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in temperature over the seasons Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast as it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion of the limestone in your filter. As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from this. > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > Jimmy > Husser, LA > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33481	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Dora, As for the weather he (not she), Jim, references "the cold months of the year," although he doesn't say (and I can't know) how cold it actually gets in the Winter in Husser, LA where he lives. I know you get snow down there in Texas in the Winter, and those storms sweep northeast across Louisiana and up here into my area, so I'd assume it can get fairly cold at times. If Jim's water passes through limestone (and that's very doubtful) it would be very minimal at best; it doesn't appear that it passes through very much (if any) at all. This is the reason why Jim uses an acid filter (limestone) in line with his well pump, to increase the calcium carbonates in his water which is necessary with his otherwise soft (KH 6 and GH 6) and acid water as it comes from the ground. With little (to none) contact with limestone in the ground, any drought in the area would not increase his KH or GH. The fluctuations in pH, KH and GH that Jim notes, tested after the water has run through his limestone filter, strongly points to depletion of limestone in his well water filter. With little influence of the geology on his KH (and GH) at its source, there's no reason to believe that a drought could have much of an effect on increasing these parameters, therefore the carbonic acid as a result of CO2 concentrations would not fluctuate during a drought, and of course the CO2 concentrations themselves would not be effected by a drought. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Ray, if she lives where the well water passes through limestone, what effect > might extreme drought have on the situation? Also, is the weather actually > very cold? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:27 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water > > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the water > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in temperature > over the seasons > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast as > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in > the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion > of the limestone in your filter. > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > wrote: > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > this. > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > Jimmy > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33482	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in identifying it. The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not under the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not Crypts, note that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL die back this time of year heading into December and January as they go dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear with new growth from the bulb. You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. If this is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you mentionerd, as that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants (even including your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch as it comes from the LFS, but instead, should be separated and planted as individual stalks (stems) close to but not touching each other. When planted as a tight bunch, this prevents adequate water circulation around them and greatly diminishes the light to the tightly bunched stems, which can't penetrate between them. Other bunch plants might include Cabomba and Anacharis, but could also be Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money Wort or Ludwigia to name a few (we'd need to see them). While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I doubt its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep removing (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with aquarium water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which is especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half of your filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial bacteria. Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're FEEDING this bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water contains any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on plantgeek.net. > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even the > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if it > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it didn't seem > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it a "bunch > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any of > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she doesn't do > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random plants > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm not > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store aren't > doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help that I have a > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it was > mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my cloudy tank, > I want to get it back under control. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more about it. > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash the plants > > yet. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and I > > didn't do > > any tests the last couple of days, I just today did another water > > change (2 > > of them within a couple hours). The tank is still cloudy. I've already > > tried > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still here and > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the water the > > last > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too tired to > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 and > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent water > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. I removed > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out another plant > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was dying as well. > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then things > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm going to do > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > > collecting > > too much debris. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of your > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... meaning > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate reading? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good cleaning on > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months old). > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change earlier > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today as well > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered by it, > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had a plant > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out of my > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing the > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the cloudiness, the > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days since I > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > > Tested on: 11/22/2008 10:35:49 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33483	From: bill1433	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Although I�m far from anywhere near an expert, I do have well water and have already come to some conclusions about it. � First, there is a direct bearing on the depth of the well itself. � Next, temperature on my well at 80� deep remains constant through out the year.� At 56 degree�s.� � Finally, in working with it, and doing water changes.� Ray mentioned a while back when I was doing my baseline, it drop an air stone into the sample I was working with.� In 24 and 48 hour increments there were changes in readings and also a change after the sample was brought up to just room temperature at 72 degrees. � Now for location.� I am literally surrounded by limestone.� I live on a mountain side but yet my well water is very soft with almost no GH or KH readings at all.� And always on the Ph acid side of 5.5. � Well water is a very strange animal.� You cannot just consider its location but also where it is pumping from.� To that end, almost anything is possible.� Also to be considered is the water table itself and its base and point of origin.� To do this study properly you would surely need a lab tech and some very fancy equipment and lots of time to study the results through time.� One thing that comes to mind immediately, does the water table move or fluctuate through the months of the year?� Some do and some do not.� Mine does not and that�s one of the reasons for the constant temperature of it.� People in low laying areas, of which LA has plenty, could experience many shifts or changes throughout the year.� Again, a full time study to consider all of these ramifications would be necessary. � Bill --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 9:49 AM Dora, As for the weather he (not she), Jim, references "the cold months of the year," although he doesn't say (and I can't know) how cold it actually gets in the Winter in Husser, LA where he lives. I know you get snow down there in Texas in the Winter, and those storms sweep northeast across Louisiana and up here into my area, so I'd assume it can get fairly cold at times. If Jim's water passes through limestone (and that's very doubtful) it would be very minimal at best; it doesn't appear that it passes through very much (if any) at all. This is the reason why Jim uses an acid filter (limestone) in line with his well pump, to increase the calcium carbonates in his water which is necessary with his otherwise soft (KH 6 and GH 6) and acid water as it comes from the ground. With little (to none) contact with limestone in the ground, any drought in the area would not increase his KH or GH. The fluctuations in pH, KH and GH that Jim notes, tested after the water has run through his limestone filter, strongly points to depletion of limestone in his well water filter. With little influence of the geology on his KH (and GH) at its source, there's no reason to believe that a drought could have much of an effect on increasing these parameters, therefore the carbonic acid as a result of CO2 concentrations would not fluctuate during a drought, and of course the CO2 concentrations themselves would not be effected by a drought. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > Ray, if she lives where the well water passes through limestone, what effect > might extreme drought have on the situation? Also, is the weather actually > very cold? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ ...> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:27 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water > > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the water > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in temperature > over the seasons > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast as > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in > the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion > of the limestone in your filter. > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > wrote: > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > this. > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > Jimmy > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<� ((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33484	From: hank voss	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Although I'm far from anywhere near an expert > Next, temperature on my well at 80' deep remains constant > through out the year.  At 56 degree's.  > Now for location.  I am literally surrounded by limestone.  I live on a mountain > side but yet my well water is very soft with almost no GH or KH readings at > all.  And always on the Ph acid side of 5.5. >   > Well water is a very strange animal.  Bill: Your killing me!!(tears rolling down my cheeks)Im also located in a limestone area(cen. Fla.)except I wish I had your water resdings rather than the ones i have.Right now the water temp from the tap is70F and in the summer its in the 80s.WANNA TRADE??? Boy the fish I could breed if i had your source.I wonder how much it would cost to run a pipeline to here?? Regards Hank PS Hey Ray I bet you would like to have his well too!!! ================================================= > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the > water > > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding > > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as > > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any > > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, > > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in > temperature > > over the seasons > > > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast > as > > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts > > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone > > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in > > the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, > > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in > > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion > > of the limestone in your filter. > > > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going > > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has > > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > > this. > > > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes > > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and > > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > > Jimmy > > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33485	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Let's see, figure about 1000 miles between you and Bill. Half inch tubing is $0.49 per foot. 5280 feet in a mile. That would be 5280000 feet between you and Bill. That would come to around $2.5 million. However, for that much tubing, you should be able to get a substantial, discount, once the sales monkey's mouth stops opening and closing like a fish. But that discount would be replaced by other costs of people to lay the tubing, the tunneling under roads etc, so, you are in for some pretty heavy expenses, which may raise the cost well above the discount you get on the tubing. You'll probably want to find a location closer than Bill to move water from. <G> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Although I'm far from anywhere near an expert > Next, temperature on my well at 80' deep remains constant > through out the year.  At 56 degree's.  > Now for location.  I am literally surrounded by limestone.  I live on a mountain > side but yet my well water is very soft with almost no GH or KH readings at > all.  And always on the Ph acid side of 5.5. >   > Well water is a very strange animal.  Bill: Your killing me!!(tears rolling down my cheeks)Im also located in a limestone area(cen. Fla.)except I wish I had your water resdings rather than the ones i have.Right now the water temp from the tap is70F and in the summer its in the 80s.WANNA TRADE??? Boy the fish I could breed if i had your source.I wonder how much it would cost to run a pipeline to here?? Regards Hank PS Hey Ray I bet you would like to have his well too!!! ================================================= > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the > water > > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding > > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as > > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any > > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, > > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in > temperature > > over the seasons > > > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast > as > > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts > > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone > > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in > > the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, > > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in > > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion > > of the limestone in your filter. > > > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going > > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has > > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > > this. > > > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes > > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and > > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > > Jimmy > > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33486	From: bill1433	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Comedians!  Comedians!   These days everybody wants to get into show business!   Good Afternoon \\Steve//   Big <G>   Bill --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 1:50 PM Let's see, figure about 1000 miles between you and Bill. Half inch tubing is $0.49 per foot. 5280 feet in a mile. That would be 5280000 feet between you and Bill. That would come to around $2.5 million. However, for that much tubing, you should be able to get a substantial, discount, once the sales monkey's mouth stops opening and closing like a fish. But that discount would be replaced by other costs of people to lay the tubing, the tunneling under roads etc, so, you are in for some pretty heavy expenses, which may raise the cost well above the discount you get on the tubing. You'll probably want to find a location closer than Bill to move water from. <G> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Although I'm far from anywhere near an expert > Next, temperature on my well at 80' deep remains constant > through out the year.  At 56 degree's.  > Now for location.  I am literally surrounded by limestone.  I live on a mountain > side but yet my well water is very soft with almost no GH or KH readings at > all.  And always on the Ph acid side of 5.5. >   > Well water is a very strange animal.  Bill: Your killing me!!(tears rolling down my cheeks)Im also located in a limestone area(cen. Fla.)except I wish I had your water resdings rather than the ones i have.Right now the water temp from the tap is70F and in the summer its in the 80s.WANNA TRADE??? Boy the fish I could breed if i had your source.I wonder how much it would cost to run a pipeline to here?? Regards Hank PS Hey Ray I bet you would like to have his well too!!! ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= = > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the > water > > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding > > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as > > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any > > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, > > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in > temperature > > over the seasons > > > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast > as > > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts > > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone > > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in > > the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, > > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in > > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion > > of the limestone in your filter. > > > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going > > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has > > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > > this. > > > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes > > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and > > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > > Jimmy > > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33487	From: bill1433	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Yes Hank, � Killing you?� I�m killing me!� I�m afraid your right.� Only it�s a lot like the Mrs. says describing me.� My Bill is strong as oak and twice as thick! � I did not realize (this is despite the warnings from Ray, Lenny and Steve) until very late last night in my readings, just how may things I do have with that water to be thankful for.� Absolutely pure, no additives or chemicals of any kind and I�m crying! � You may remember that I am very much interested in Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi, the Blue Ram.� Well it turns out that I have perfect water for them with not only being acid but, here�s my water test from this morning, GH 2.0 KH 1.0. Brother, that�s soft water.� My new theory?� Leave the water alone.� Do my PWC�s, put the Test Kit on the shelf until Sundays mornings, relax and enjoy my fish and my great water! � Bill � --- On Sun, 11/23/08, hank voss <aatetras@...> wrote: From: hank voss <aatetras@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 1:03 PM --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Although I'm far from anywhere near an expert > Next, temperature on my well at 80' deep remains constant > through out the year.� At 56 degree's.� > Now for location.� I am literally surrounded by limestone.� I live on a mountain > side but yet my well water is very soft with almost no GH or KH readings at > all.� And always on the Ph acid side of 5.5. > � > Well water is a very strange animal.� Bill: Your killing me!!(tears rolling down my cheeks)Im also located in a limestone area(cen. Fla.)except I wish I had your water resdings rather than the ones i have.Right now the water temp from the tap is70F and in the summer its in the 80s.WANNA TRADE??? Boy the fish I could breed if i had your source.I wonder how much it would cost to run a pipeline to here?? Regards Hank PS Hey Ray I bet you would like to have his well too!!! ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= = > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the > water > > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding > > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as > > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any > > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, > > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in > temperature > > over the seasons > > > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast > as > > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts > > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone > > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in > > the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, > > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in > > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion > > of the limestone in your filter. > > > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going > > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has > > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > > this. > > > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes > > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and > > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > > Jimmy > > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<� > ((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33488	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: so disappointed

Try aquabid. _www.aquabid.com_ (http://www.aquabid.com) They usually have young and imports available. Joey **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33489	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart was this one: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1880340882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I took it out of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what the LFS suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough light), after that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant everywhere after that. Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when doing PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my carbon media in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned out the filter. And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it for me while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some reason, as I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in identifying it. > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not under > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not Crypts, > note that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL > die back this time of year heading into December and January as they > go dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear with > new growth from the bulb. > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. If > this is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you mentionerd, > as that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants (even > including your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch as it > comes from the LFS, but instead, should be separated and planted as > individual stalks (stems) close to but not touching each other. When > planted as a tight bunch, this prevents adequate water circulation > around them and greatly diminishes the light to the tightly bunched > stems, which can't penetrate between them. Other bunch plants might > include Cabomba and Anacharis, but could also be Ambulia, Cardamine, > Bacopa, Money Wort or Ludwigia to name a few (we'd need to see them). > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I doubt > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep removing > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with > aquarium water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which is > especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half of > your filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > bacteria. > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're FEEDING this > bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water contains > any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > plantgeek.net. > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even > the > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if > it > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it didn't > seem > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it > a "bunch > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any > of > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she doesn't > do > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random > plants > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm > not > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store aren't > > doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help that I have > a > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it was > > mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my cloudy > tank, > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more > about it. > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash > the plants > > > yet. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and I > > > didn't do > > > any tests the last couple of days, I just today did another water > > > change (2 > > > of them within a couple hours). The tank is still cloudy. I've > already > > > tried > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still > here and > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > water the > > > last > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too > tired to > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 > and > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent > water > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. I > removed > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > another plant > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was dying > as well. > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then > things > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm > going to do > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > > > collecting > > > too much debris. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of > your > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... > meaning > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate > reading? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > cleaning on > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months > old). > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change > earlier > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today > as well > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered > by it, > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had > a plant > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out > of my > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing > the > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > cloudiness, the > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days > since I > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > > > Tested on: 11/22/2008 10:35:49 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33490	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: ugh, light fixture from DFS no longer working

This has been such a struggle, I will never order something fragile from DFS again, their customer service is good but they don't follow through in the shipping department. They are not adding enough padding around the bulbs and either they are partially broken when they get here and the slightest movement busts something inside or there's a busted component inside of the light fixture itself. Today my light didn't even turn on when the timer did. I switched around the bulbs even tried the first fixture, neither of them would turn on, they just flash for a moment and turn dark again. I give up and I am sending them back to DFS for a refund, I will stick to the shop light I have with 2 fluorescent bulbs in them, it's at least better than what I started with. What a pain though, I have enough issues to deal with and I didn't have a lot of money in the first place, I shouldn't have ordered it but I wanted a better light, guess this is what I get for a spur of the moment purchase. Grr, go figure they can't send out empty boxes for a return, and I threw away one of the boxes, I guess I'll just have to shove them both into one box and hope they fit. This is just so frustrating. There was no reason for the light to stop working after a few days, I didn't bump it or drop it. What a great weekend, I have a cloudy tank and 2 broken lights *sigh* thanks for listening to my rant. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33491	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Ray, the temperature of the night in question was around 28 degrees F.  It rarely gets any lower than that.  The water has never frozen overnight here (at least in the last 5 yrs).  Like I stated before the KH was stable at 4.  The same as it was in Aug of this year.  The GH had dropped from 8 in Aug to 4 yesterday.  The low last night was 51 degrees F.  I'll check the temperature out of the tap this afternoon.  I'll also recheck KH and GH this afternoon.  The limestone filter holds 50 lbs of limestone and I can't believe it would be depleted now, but I don't know for sure.  There has been no discoloration of the water in the tub or toilet bowl.  Jimmy Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:49:36 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water Dora, As for the weather he (not she), Jim, references "the cold months of the year," although he doesn't say (and I can't know) how cold it actually gets in the Winter in Husser, LA where he lives. I know you get snow down there in Texas in the Winter, and those storms sweep northeast across Louisiana and up here into my area, so I'd assume it can get fairly cold at times. If Jim's water passes through limestone (and that's very doubtful) it would be very minimal at best; it doesn't appear that it passes through very much (if any) at all. This is the reason why Jim uses an acid filter (limestone) in line with his well pump, to increase the calcium carbonates in his water which is necessary with his otherwise soft (KH 6 and GH 6) and acid water as it comes from the ground. With little (to none) contact with limestone in the ground, any drought in the area would not increase his KH or GH. The fluctuations in pH, KH and GH that Jim notes, tested after the water has run through his limestone filter, strongly points to depletion of limestone in his well water filter. With little influence of the geology on his KH (and GH) at its source, there's no reason to believe that a drought could have much of an effect on increasing these parameters, therefore the carbonic acid as a result of CO2 concentrations would not fluctuate during a drought, and of course the CO2 concentrations themselves would not be effected by a drought. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > Ray, if she lives where the well water passes through limestone, what effect > might extreme drought have on the situation? Also, is the weather actually > very cold? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ ...> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:27 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water > > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the water > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in temperature > over the seasons > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast as > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in > the ground.. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion > of the limestone in your filter. > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > wrote: > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > this. > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > Jimmy > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·..¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > __.._,_.___ Messages in this topic (16) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. MARKETPLACE ________________________________ From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity *  15 New Members *  4 New PhotosVisit Your Group Sitebuilder Build a web site quickly & easily with Sitebuilder. Dog Fanatics on Yahoo! Groups Find people who are crazy about dogs. Check out the Y! Groups blog Stay up to speed on all things Groups! . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33492	From: Lisa	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Freshwater chemistry

How do I raise the alkalinity of the water? I tested it this morning before I left for work, and I got a reading of 40 The colour chart indicated that it was just below normal. PH AMONIA NITERITE NITERATE Are all normal Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33493	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: New member - New Aquarium

I live in the "North Coast" in the USA. That is the Great Lakes region. Not very tropical here, so heaters are a necessary tool! I am a 60 year old male, that did have 2 tanks at 55 gallon each. I had a community tank in one, and "Knuckles and Spike" lived in the other. Two Oscars that grew from about an inch to whoopers that were about 8 inches plus tail fin. They were getting misshaped by being in too small a tank. I was pretty uninformed, in fact the only thing that kept me going without all dying was water changes and a filter the use dia something earth, that I hung on the side of the tank to get rid of the cloudiness. I worked long hours at the time, and the wife was not an ardent fan, so I sold the stuff and have not been interested in quite awhile. About a month ago I purchased a red Betta for my office, and now I am hooked on the idea again. Been reading, and see a great many of the mistakes that I was making before. Know that I should maybe get a bigger tank than a 12 gallon, but it is as large as the office can support. It is one of the Elipse 12 models, and should make maintenance easier. If I am successful at the office and my interest stays high, I will introduce the hobby to my home once again. Hey, my wife has a cat I can not stand, so it seems only fair... Besides, I plan to retire and bring it home in 5 years, if we still have retirement savings left by then. I sure like bull markets better than bear ones! I look forward to meeting all of you, and learning from you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33494	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?

Thanks Lenny and Dora, Good to know they are not a unwanted perminant fixture to my new tank. lol I'll just have to do daily scrubbing till it goes.  Oh! Before i forget as well...there are products that can be used to help prevent algee growth as well aren't there?   Lisa    Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33495	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

That's Anacharis (aka Elodea). Next time, try letting it float for a while so it gets plenty of light and then when you plant it, don't bunch it up as the base of the stalks will rot. Just stick each stalk in and then pile some gravel up around them and in between them to hold them in place and they'll eventually root with little anchor roots. They are low to moderate light plants although they do great with lots of lighting also. I find they do best if left floating in the tank for a while until they start to grow roots and sprout new stalks... then plant it if you want... or leave it floating. It also needs lots of nutrients (nitrogenous waste, phosphates, etc.) since it's a fast growing plant in the right conditions so if you keep your tank too clean, it will not do well. Let your nitrates stay at least 10ppm. There are a couple of varieties so you want to check out PlantGeek's a little closer to see which variety you have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart was this one: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1880340 882/view?picmode= <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 0882/view?picmode= <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I took it out of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what the LFS suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough light), after that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant everywhere after that. Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when doing PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my carbon media in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned out the filter. And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it for me while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some reason, as I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in identifying it. > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not under > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not Crypts, note > that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL die > back this time of year heading into December and January as they go > dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear with new > growth from the bulb. > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. If this > is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you mentionerd, as > that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants (even including > your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch as it comes from > the LFS, but instead, should be separated and planted as individual > stalks (stems) close to but not touching each other. When planted as a > tight bunch, this prevents adequate water circulation around them and > greatly diminishes the light to the tightly bunched stems, which can't > penetrate between them. Other bunch plants might include Cabomba and > Anacharis, but could also be Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money Wort or > Ludwigia to name a few (we'd need to see them). > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I doubt > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep removing > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with aquarium > water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which is > especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half of your > filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > bacteria. > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're FEEDING this > bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water contains > any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > plantgeek.net. > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even > the > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if > it > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it didn't > seem > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it > a "bunch > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any > of > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she doesn't > do > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random > plants > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm > not > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store aren't > > doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help that I have > a > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it was > > mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my cloudy > tank, > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> >> > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more > about it. > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash > the plants > > > yet. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and I > > > didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today did > > > another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The tank > > > is still cloudy. I've > already > > > tried > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still > here and > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > water the > > > last > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too > tired to > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 > and > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent > water > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. I > removed > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > another plant > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was dying > as well. > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then > things > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm > going to do > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > > > collecting too much debris. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of > your > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... > meaning > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate > reading? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > cleaning on > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months > old). > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change > earlier > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today > as well > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered > by it, > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had > a plant > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out > of my > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing > the > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > cloudiness, the > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days > since I > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/23/2008 2:49:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33496	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?

You don't want to use chemicals in your tank(s). 95% of the chemicals that are being pushed on hobbyists are not needed 95% of the time. Keeping the tanks in good shape, clean and balanced will keep algae to a minimum so you can just scrape it off the glass if you get any there and/or scrub an ornament if you get any there. I like the natural look in my tanks so a little algae does not bother me... and it's good for your tanks ecology also. If you are getting too much, that means you're not doing something right so we can figure out what's wrong and fix it... then the algae will go away. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is this brown stuff? Thanks Lenny and Dora, Good to know they are not a unwanted perminant fixture to my new tank. lol I'll just have to do daily scrubbing till it goes. Oh! Before i forget as well...there are products that can be used to help prevent algee growth as well aren't there? Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/23/2008 2:56:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33497	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

after reading about the plant on plantgeek.net it seems that the flourish excel may have caused the melting, here's what it says: ****Special note**** This plant seems to be sensitive to Flourish Excel, to the point it "melts" completely off if given enough. It is also sensitive to bleach dips. Well now I know ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That's Anacharis (aka Elodea). Next time, try letting it float for a while > so it gets plenty of light and then when you plant it, don't bunch it > up as > the base of the stalks will rot. Just stick each stalk in and then pile > some gravel up around them and in between them to hold them in place and > they'll eventually root with little anchor roots. They are low to moderate > light plants although they do great with lots of lighting also. I find > they > do best if left floating in the tank for a while until they start to grow > roots and sprout new stalks... then plant it if you want... or leave it > floating. It also needs lots of nutrients (nitrogenous waste, phosphates, > etc.) since it's a fast growing plant in the right conditions so if > you keep > your tank too clean, it will not do well. Let your nitrates stay at least > 10ppm. There are a couple of varieties so you want to check out > PlantGeek's > a little closer to see which variety you have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again > > I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart was this > one: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1880340 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1880340> > 882/view?picmode= > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034> > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034> > 0882/view?picmode= > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034> > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). > I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I took it out > of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what the LFS > suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough light), after > that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant everywhere after > that. > Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when doing > PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my carbon > media > in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned out the filter. > And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it for me > while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some > reason, as > I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in identifying it. > > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not under > > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not Crypts, note > > that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL die > > back this time of year heading into December and January as they go > > dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear with new > > growth from the bulb. > > > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. If this > > is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you mentionerd, as > > that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants (even including > > your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch as it comes from > > the LFS, but instead, should be separated and planted as individual > > stalks (stems) close to but not touching each other. When planted as a > > tight bunch, this prevents adequate water circulation around them and > > greatly diminishes the light to the tightly bunched stems, which can't > > penetrate between them. Other bunch plants might include Cabomba and > > Anacharis, but could also be Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money Wort or > > Ludwigia to name a few (we'd need to see them). > > > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I doubt > > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep removing > > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with aquarium > > water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which is > > especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half of your > > filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > > bacteria. > > > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're FEEDING this > > bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water contains > > any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > > plantgeek.net. > > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even > > the > > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if > > it > > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it didn't > > seem > > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it > > a "bunch > > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any > > of > > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she doesn't > > do > > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random > > plants > > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for > > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm > > not > > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store aren't > > > doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help that I have > > a > > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of > > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it was > > > mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my cloudy > > tank, > > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> >> > > > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more > > about it. > > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash > > the plants > > > > yet. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and I > > > > didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today did > > > > another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The tank > > > > is still cloudy. I've > > already > > > > tried > > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still > > here and > > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > > water the > > > > last > > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too > > tired to > > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 > > and > > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent > > water > > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. I > > removed > > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > > another plant > > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was dying > > as well. > > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then > > things > > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm > > going to do > > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > > > > collecting too much debris. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of > > your > > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... > > meaning > > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate > > reading? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > > cleaning on > > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months > > old). > > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change > > earlier > > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today > > as well > > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered > > by it, > > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had > > a plant > > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out > > of my > > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing > > the > > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > > cloudiness, the > > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days > > since I > > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > Tested on: 11/23/2008 2:49:19 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33498	From: hank voss	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

--- On Sun, 11/23/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 1:50 PM I wonder if I can apply for a government bailout  like everyone else???                                                                 Hank Let's see, figure about 1000 miles between you and Bill. Half inch tubing is $0.49 per foot. 5280 feet in a mile. That would be 5280000 feet between you and Bill. That would come to around $2.5 million. However, for that much tubing, you should be able to get a substantial, discount, once the sales monkey's mouth stops opening and closing like a fish. But that discount would be replaced by other costs of people to lay the tubing, the tunneling under roads etc, so, you are in for some pretty heavy expenses, which may raise the cost well above the discount you get on the tubing. You'll probably want to find a location closer than Bill to move water from. <G> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of hank voss Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Although I'm far from anywhere near an expert > Next, temperature on my well at 80' deep remains constant > through out the year.  At 56 degree's.  > Now for location.  I am literally surrounded by limestone.  I live on a mountain > side but yet my well water is very soft with almost no GH or KH readings at > all.  And always on the Ph acid side of 5.5. >   > Well water is a very strange animal.  Bill: Your killing me!!(tears rolling down my cheeks)Im also located in a limestone area(cen. Fla.)except I wish I had your water resdings rather than the ones i have.Right now the water temp from the tap is70F and in the summer its in the 80s.WANNA TRADE??? Boy the fish I could breed if i had your source.I wonder how much it would cost to run a pipeline to here?? Regards Hank PS Hey Ray I bet you would like to have his well too!!! ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= = > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the > water > > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding > > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as > > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any > > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, > > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in > temperature > > over the seasons > > > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast > as > > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts > > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone > > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in > > the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, > > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in > > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion > > of the limestone in your filter. > > > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going > > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has > > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > > this. > > > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes > > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and > > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > > Jimmy > > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33499	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

Lenny, You should also note that anacharis will break down under high temperature conditions. It is really a cool water plant. Only the species _Elodea densa_ is fit for warm water aquariums. If she has any other species, she is seeing the plant, as they say in the software industry, performing as designed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again That's Anacharis (aka Elodea). Next time, try letting it float for a while so it gets plenty of light and then when you plant it, don't bunch it up as the base of the stalks will rot. Just stick each stalk in and then pile some gravel up around them and in between them to hold them in place and they'll eventually root with little anchor roots. They are low to moderate light plants although they do great with lots of lighting also. I find they do best if left floating in the tank for a while until they start to grow roots and sprout new stalks... then plant it if you want... or leave it floating. It also needs lots of nutrients (nitrogenous waste, phosphates, etc.) since it's a fast growing plant in the right conditions so if you keep your tank too clean, it will not do well. Let your nitrates stay at least 10ppm. There are a couple of varieties so you want to check out PlantGeek's a little closer to see which variety you have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart was this one: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1880340 882/view?picmode= <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 0882/view?picmode= <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I took it out of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what the LFS suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough light), after that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant everywhere after that. Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when doing PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my carbon media in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned out the filter. And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it for me while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some reason, as I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in identifying it. > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not under > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not Crypts, note > that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL die > back this time of year heading into December and January as they go > dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear with new > growth from the bulb. > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. If this > is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you mentionerd, as > that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants (even including > your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch as it comes from > the LFS, but instead, should be separated and planted as individual > stalks (stems) close to but not touching each other. When planted as a > tight bunch, this prevents adequate water circulation around them and > greatly diminishes the light to the tightly bunched stems, which can't > penetrate between them. Other bunch plants might include Cabomba and > Anacharis, but could also be Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money Wort or > Ludwigia to name a few (we'd need to see them). > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I doubt > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep removing > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with aquarium > water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which is > especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half of your > filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > bacteria. > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're FEEDING this > bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water contains > any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > plantgeek.net. > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even > the > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if > it > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it didn't > seem > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it > a "bunch > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any > of > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she doesn't > do > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random > plants > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm > not > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store aren't > > doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help that I have > a > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it was > > mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my cloudy > tank, > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> >> > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more > about it. > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash > the plants > > > yet. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and I > > > didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today did > > > another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The tank > > > is still cloudy. I've > already > > > tried > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still > here and > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > water the > > > last > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too > tired to > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 > and > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent > water > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. I > removed > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > another plant > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was dying > as well. > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then > things > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm > going to do > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > > > collecting too much debris. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of > your > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... > meaning > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate > reading? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > cleaning on > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months > old). > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change > earlier > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today > as well > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered > by it, > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had > a plant > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out > of my > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing > the > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > cloudiness, the > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days > since I > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/23/2008 2:49:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33500	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

Yep, that seems to be the problem.... I didn't know that.. but then I've never used any plant nutrients in my tanks other than what my water, fish and critters provide. I'll have to remember this since I have Anacharis in most of my tanks since it grows so well for me. I wonder why the Excel does that? I thought Excel was like a liquid CO2 type product and I know that Anacharis likes lots of CO2 which is why it grows up to the surface to get CO2 out of the surface air. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again after reading about the plant on plantgeek.net it seems that the flourish excel may have caused the melting, here's what it says: ****Special note**** This plant seems to be sensitive to Flourish Excel, to the point it "melts" completely off if given enough. It is also sensitive to bleach dips. Well now I know ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That's Anacharis (aka Elodea). Next time, try letting it float for a > while so it gets plenty of light and then when you plant it, don't > bunch it up as the base of the stalks will rot. Just stick each stalk > in and then pile some gravel up around them and in between them to > hold them in place and they'll eventually root with little anchor > roots. They are low to moderate light plants although they do great > with lots of lighting also. I find they do best if left floating in > the tank for a while until they start to grow roots and sprout new > stalks... then plant it if you want... or leave it floating. It also > needs lots of nutrients (nitrogenous waste, phosphates, > etc.) since it's a fast growing plant in the right conditions so if > you keep your tank too clean, it will not do well. Let your nitrates > stay at least 10ppm. There are a couple of varieties so you want to > check out PlantGeek's a little closer to see which variety you have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again > > I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart was > this > one: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1 > 880340 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 1880340> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 1880340 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 1880340> > 882/view?picmode= > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034> > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034> > 0882/view?picmode= > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 188034> > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). > I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I took it > out of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what the > LFS suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough > light), after that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant > everywhere after that. > Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when > doing PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my > carbon media in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned > out the filter. > And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it for > me while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some > reason, as I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in identifying it. > > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not under > > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not Crypts, > > note that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL > > die back this time of year heading into December and January as they > > go dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear with > > new growth from the bulb. > > > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. If > > this is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you > > mentionerd, as that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants > > (even including your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch > > as it comes from the LFS, but instead, should be separated and > > planted as individual stalks (stems) close to but not touching each > > other. When planted as a tight bunch, this prevents adequate water > > circulation around them and greatly diminishes the light to the > > tightly bunched stems, which can't penetrate between them. Other > > bunch plants might include Cabomba and Anacharis, but could also be > > Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money Wort or Ludwigia to name a few (we'd need to see them). > > > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I doubt > > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep removing > > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with > > aquarium water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which > > is especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half of > > your filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > > bacteria. > > > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're FEEDING > > this bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water > > contains any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > > plantgeek.net. > > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even > > the > > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if > > it > > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it > > > didn't > > seem > > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it > > a "bunch > > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any > > of > > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she > > > doesn't > > do > > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random > > plants > > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for > > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm > > not > > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store > > > aren't doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help > > > that I have > > a > > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of > > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it > > > was mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my > > > cloudy > > tank, > > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jp > > > > g> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> >> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> >> > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> >> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> >> > >> > > > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more > > about it. > > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash > > the plants > > > > yet. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and > > > > I didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today did > > > > another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The tank > > > > is still cloudy. I've > > already > > > > tried > > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still > > here and > > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > > water the > > > > last > > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too > > tired to > > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 > > and > > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent > > water > > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. > > > > I > > removed > > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > > another plant > > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was > > > > dying > > as well. > > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then > > things > > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm > > going to do > > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > > > > collecting too much debris. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of > > your > > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... > > meaning > > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate > > reading? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > >>> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > > cleaning on > > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 > > > > > months > > old). > > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change > > earlier > > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today > > as well > > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be > > > > > bothered > > by it, > > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had > > a plant > > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it > > > > > out > > of my > > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing > > the > > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > > cloudiness, the > > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days > > since I > > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/23/2008 3:27:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33501	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

It does OK in my tropical tanks around 78F - 80F and it also did fine in my ponds which got much warmer during the hottest part of the summer... but maybe I had the E. densa. Back in my pond days, I didn't really check stuff out on the net. If the garden place sold the plants, I figured they were good to go. So they were the first plant I started with in my indoor tanks as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again Lenny, You should also note that anacharis will break down under high temperature conditions. It is really a cool water plant. Only the species _Elodea densa_ is fit for warm water aquariums. If she has any other species, she is seeing the plant, as they say in the software industry, performing as designed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again That's Anacharis (aka Elodea). Next time, try letting it float for a while so it gets plenty of light and then when you plant it, don't bunch it up as the base of the stalks will rot. Just stick each stalk in and then pile some gravel up around them and in between them to hold them in place and they'll eventually root with little anchor roots. They are low to moderate light plants although they do great with lots of lighting also. I find they do best if left floating in the tank for a while until they start to grow roots and sprout new stalks... then plant it if you want... or leave it floating. It also needs lots of nutrients (nitrogenous waste, phosphates, etc.) since it's a fast growing plant in the right conditions so if you keep your tank too clean, it will not do well. Let your nitrates stay at least 10ppm. There are a couple of varieties so you want to check out PlantGeek's a little closer to see which variety you have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart was this one: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1880340 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 0> 882/view?picmode= <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 > > 0882/view?picmode= <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/188034 > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I took it out of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what the LFS suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough light), after that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant everywhere after that. Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when doing PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my carbon media in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned out the filter. And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it for me while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some reason, as I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in identifying it. > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not under > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not Crypts, note > that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL die > back this time of year heading into December and January as they go > dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear with new > growth from the bulb. > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. If this > is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you mentionerd, as > that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants (even including > your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch as it comes from > the LFS, but instead, should be separated and planted as individual > stalks (stems) close to but not touching each other. When planted as a > tight bunch, this prevents adequate water circulation around them and > greatly diminishes the light to the tightly bunched stems, which can't > penetrate between them. Other bunch plants might include Cabomba and > Anacharis, but could also be Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money Wort or > Ludwigia to name a few (we'd need to see them). > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I doubt > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep removing > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with aquarium > water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which is > especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half of your > filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > bacteria. > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're FEEDING this > bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water contains > any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > plantgeek.net. > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even > the > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if > it > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it didn't > seem > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it > a "bunch > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any > of > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she doesn't > do > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random > plants > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm > not > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store aren't > > doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help that I have > a > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it was > > mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my cloudy > tank, > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > >> > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more > about it. > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash > the plants > > > yet. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and I > > > didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today did > > > another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The tank > > > is still cloudy. I've > already > > > tried > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still > here and > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > water the > > > last > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too > tired to > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 > and > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent > water > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. I > removed > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > another plant > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was dying > as well. > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then > things > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm > going to do > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > > > collecting too much debris. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of > your > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... > meaning > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate > reading? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > >>> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > cleaning on > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months > old). > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change > earlier > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today > as well > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered > by it, > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had > a plant > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out > of my > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing > the > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > cloudiness, the > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days > since I > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 Tested on: 11/23/2008 3:32:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33502	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?

It's better not to add chemicals (products) to your tank to solve problems. On another forum we are trying to help a newbie who added such a product save his last fish. Use natural methods to prevent algae such as reduced lighting and no overfeeding. The diatoms are harmless and do not need daily scrubbing.they are also not caused by too much light or fish food. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is this brown stuff? Thanks Lenny and Dora, Good to know they are not a unwanted perminant fixture to my new tank. lol I'll just have to do daily scrubbing till it goes. Oh! Before i forget as well...there are products that can be used to help prevent algee growth as well aren't there? Lisa Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs <http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline> yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33503	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Before I put this thread to rest I'd like to say thanks Lenny, Steve and Ray.  You were right on again as usual.  The tanks have been going so well lately that I didn't want to see a problem starting.  I started another baseline test of the tap water today.  pH was up to 7.0 from 6.6 right out of the tap.  KH and GH up to 5 from 4 right out of the tap.  The temp of the water was 64 degrees F.  I am sorry I don't have the temp of the previous water but I am sure it was cooler than 64 as the night time temp was 28 degrees F.  As a reminder this water is from the holding tank (80 gal) which is above ground.  Jimmy Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:25:07 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water Ray, the temperature of the night in question was around 28 degrees F.  It rarely gets any lower than that.  The water has never frozen overnight here (at least in the last 5 yrs).  Like I stated before the KH was stable at 4.  The same as it was in Aug of this year.  The GH had dropped from 8 in Aug to 4 yesterday.  The low last night was 51 degrees F.  I'll check the temperature out of the tap this afternoon.  I'll also recheck KH and GH this afternoon.  The limestone filter holds 50 lbs of limestone and I can't believe it would be depleted now, but I don't know for sure..  There has been no discoloration of the water in the tub or toilet bowl.  Jimmy Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:49:36 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water Dora, As for the weather he (not she), Jim, references "the cold months of the year," although he doesn't say (and I can't know) how cold it actually gets in the Winter in Husser, LA where he lives. I know you get snow down there in Texas in the Winter, and those storms sweep northeast across Louisiana and up here into my area, so I'd assume it can get fairly cold at times. If Jim's water passes through limestone (and that's very doubtful) it would be very minimal at best; it doesn't appear that it passes through very much (if any) at all. This is the reason why Jim uses an acid filter (limestone) in line with his well pump, to increase the calcium carbonates in his water which is necessary with his otherwise soft (KH 6 and GH 6) and acid water as it comes from the ground. With little (to none) contact with limestone in the ground, any drought in the area would not increase his KH or GH. The fluctuations in pH, KH and GH that Jim notes, tested after the water has run through his limestone filter, strongly points to depletion of limestone in his well water filter. With little influence of the geology on his KH (and GH) at its source, there's no reason to believe that a drought could have much of an effect on increasing these parameters, therefore the carbonic acid as a result of CO2 concentrations would not fluctuate during a drought, and of course the CO2 concentrations themselves would not be effected by a drought. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > Ray, if she lives where the well water passes through limestone, what effect > might extreme drought have on the situation? Also, is the weather actually > very cold? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ ...> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:27 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water > > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the water > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in temperature > over the seasons > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast as > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in > the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion > of the limestone in your filter. > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > wrote: > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > this. > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > Jimmy > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33504	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater chemistry

Lisa, You do not adjust the alkalinity of the water. It is what it is. FWIW, there are no measurements that are "normal". All measurements have a value. Not to state those values, and the measurements mean nothing. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater chemistry How do I raise the alkalinity of the water? I tested it this morning before I left for work, and I got a reading of 40 The colour chart indicated that it was just below normal. PH AMONIA NITERITE NITERATE Are all normal Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33505	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Hank, Yeah, not much wrong with Bill's water with a couple degrees GH, even if his pH is a tad on the low side; nothing that can't be worked with if needed to. Suits many S.S. and West African fish just fine. Asian fish would be fine too. Many tetras would do great. I know you're in a limestone region, but I wasn't aware your water came out of the ground at 80 o in the Summer. Even 70 o this time of year is unexpected. I'm very lucky with my well water being a tad just over 3 dGH. It comes out of the ground at pH 6.0, but after it off-gases its pH 6.6. Have no trouble breeding Discus without having to do anything to the water as is. Its (temperature) in the higher 50's during the Summer so it only takes 24 hours to reach "room temperature" where I can use it, but it comes out at the low 50's during the Winter, requiring an extra day before I can use it (have four 125 gallon holding tanks for it until it gets up to temperature). "Room temperature" for me is whatever temperature the hatchery is being heated to, usually around 76 o (median) with the upper tanks around 78 o and the lower tanks around 74 o. I'll start the pipeline down to you from this end (LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > Although I'm far from anywhere near an expert > > > Next, temperature on my well at 80' deep remains constant > > through out the year.  At 56 degree's.  > > Now for location.  I am literally surrounded by limestone.  I live > on a mountain > > side but yet my well water is very soft with almost no GH or KH > readings at > > all.  And always on the Ph acid side of 5.5. > >   > > Well water is a very strange animal.  > > Bill: > Your killing me!!(tears rolling down my cheeks)Im also located > in a limestone area(cen. Fla.)except I wish I had your water resdings > rather than the ones i have.Right now the water temp from the tap > is70F and in the summer its in the 80s.WANNA TRADE??? > Boy the fish I could breed if i had your source.I wonder how > much it would cost to run a pipeline to here?? > Regards Hank > PS > Hey Ray I bet you would like to have his well too!!! > ================================================= > > > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > > > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > > > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > > > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > > > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the > > water > > > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > > > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > > > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is > holding > > > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) > as > > > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > > > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect > any > > > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > > > > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well > water, > > > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > > > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in > > temperature > > > over the seasons > > > > > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > > > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast > > as > > > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the > amounts > > > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your > limestone > > > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > > > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with > in > > > the ground. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > > > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone > filter, > > > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > > > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both > in > > > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > > > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any > depletion > > > of the limestone in your filter. > > > > > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's > going > > > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > > > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > > > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > > > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there > has > > > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > > > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > > > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > > > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > > > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > > > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > > > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > > > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > > > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > > > this. > > > > > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > > > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > > > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > > > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water > passes > > > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > > > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH > and > > > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > > > Jimmy > > > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33506	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?

Just to reinforce what has already been said, don't use such products. They are available, but often cause more problems than they solve. Be aware that there will always be some algae in your tank. Proper care and maintenance of the tank will minimize the amount of algae you have. This means regular water changes, feeding only as much as the fish can consume, proper amounts of light for the live plants you may have, if you have no live plants, only light the aquarium for viewing the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is this brown stuff? Thanks Lenny and Dora, Good to know they are not a unwanted perminant fixture to my new tank. lol I'll just have to do daily scrubbing till it goes.  Oh! Before i forget as well...there are products that can be used to help prevent algee growth as well aren't there?   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33507	From: Lisa	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Lighting. WAS Re: What is this brown stuff?

Yeah. I'm having a debate with myself atm. lol. regarding the practicality of a light. I have decided to just have silk/plastic plants. So a light would only serve a viewing purpose, and even then there is enough light in my room during the day for that. At night, they're supposed to be sleeping anyway...and so am i. LoL Except for my kuhli loach, which is supposidly nochternal (Spelling...) Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33508	From: Lisa	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?

Thanks again Lenny. There isn't that much there. I just... it just gets on my nerves. But if it's good for the ecology and shows that, what i have done so far in terms of setting up the tank is correct, then i guess i could learn to live with it. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You don't want to use chemicals in your tank(s). 95% of the chemicals that > are being pushed on hobbyists are not needed 95% of the time. > > Keeping the tanks in good shape, clean and balanced will keep algae to a > minimum so you can just scrape it off the glass if you get any there and/or > scrub an ornament if you get any there. I like the natural look in my tanks > so a little algae does not bother me... and it's good for your tanks ecology > also. If you are getting too much, that means you're not doing something > right so we can figure out what's wrong and fix it... then the algae will go > away. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is this brown stuff? > > > Thanks Lenny and Dora, > Good to know they are not a unwanted perminant fixture to my new tank. lol > I'll just have to do daily scrubbing till it goes. > Oh! Before i forget as well...there are products that can be used to help > prevent algee growth as well aren't there? > > Lisa > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > Tested on: 11/23/2008 2:56:22 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33509	From: Lisa	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater chemistry

Thanks Steve. Also is it normal for a tank that is cycleing, to have it's PH fluctuate? It's only 0.02 of a change, but i was just wondering... Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lisa, > > You do not adjust the alkalinity of the water. It is what it is. > > FWIW, there are no measurements that are "normal". All measurements have > a value. Not to state those values, and the measurements mean nothing. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater chemistry > > How do I raise the alkalinity of the water? > I tested it this morning before I left for work, and I got a reading of > 40 > The colour chart indicated that it was just below normal. > PH > AMONIA > NITERITE > NITERATE > Are all normal > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33510	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: CO2 level in tap water

Jim, I guess we've already established that your water will have more CO2 in it at cooler temperatures, which was the main theme of this thread. The more recent info I've added (as much as I could surmise) was only in answer to Dora's queries, but your recent statements on your weather does not surprise me. Still, 28 o is more than just chilly, and could effect the temperatures of at least some wells -- which would affect the CO2 levels. Still, I'm not a hydrologist and can only offer what knowledge of it I have, although it is an interesting study. If your acid filter is not found to be depleted, there is more going on with your well than I can come up with at this time; as Bill suggests, all wells are different. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> wrote: > > Ray, the temperature of the night in question was around 28 degrees F.  It rarely gets any lower than that.  The water has never frozen overnight here (at least in the last 5 yrs).  Like I stated before the KH was stable at 4.  The same as it was in Aug of this year.  The GH had dropped from 8 in Aug to 4 yesterday.  The low last night was 51 degrees F.  I'll check the temperature out of the tap this afternoon.  I'll also recheck KH and GH this afternoon.  The limestone filter holds 50 lbs of limestone and I can't believe it would be depleted now, but I don't know for sure.  There has been no discoloration of the water in the tub or toilet bowl. >  Jimmy > Husser, LA > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:49:36 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water > > > Dora, As for the weather he (not she), Jim, references "the cold > months of the year," although he doesn't say (and I can't know) how > cold it actually gets in the Winter in Husser, LA where he lives. I > know you get snow down there in Texas in the Winter, and those storms > sweep northeast across Louisiana and up here into my area, so I'd > assume it can get fairly cold at times. > > If Jim's water passes through limestone (and that's very doubtful) it > would be very minimal at best; it doesn't appear that it passes > through very much (if any) at all. This is the reason why Jim uses > an acid filter (limestone) in line with his well pump, to increase > the calcium carbonates in his water which is necessary with his > otherwise soft (KH 6 and GH 6) and acid water as it comes from the > ground. With little (to none) contact with limestone in the ground, > any drought in the area would not increase his KH or GH. > > The fluctuations in pH, KH and GH that Jim notes, tested after the > water has run through his limestone filter, strongly points to > depletion of limestone in his well water filter. With little > influence of the geology on his KH (and GH) at its source, there's no > reason to believe that a drought could have much of an effect on > increasing these parameters, therefore the carbonic acid as a result > of CO2 concentrations would not fluctuate during a drought, and of > course the CO2 concentrations themselves would not be effected by a > drought. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@ ...> > wrote: > > > > Ray, if she lives where the well water passes through limestone, > what effect > > might extreme drought have on the situation? Also, is the weather > actually > > very cold? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ ... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ ...> > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:27 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CO2 level in tap water > > > > > > Jim, Yes, if your well water gets colder during the Winter months, > > as many (most?) wells will, the CO2 level will go up -- but then, > > you've already established that yourself, that colder water will > > absorb and hold more gas than warmer water -- especially gas UNDER > > PRESSURE. When this pressure is release, and especially as the > water > > warms (but even before that temperature change), you'll see the > > increase of bubbles as a result of the out-gassing of it. These > > increased bubbles are proof in themselves that the water is holding > > more gas, and water will only hold more gas (at a given pressure) as > > its temperature decreases. Your water being under pressure will > > enable the water to hold more gas, but this factor won't affect any > > further amounts of gas unless your pressure is increased. > > > > You should take note of any temperature changes of your well water, > > just out of curiousity, between now and when it gets warmer next > > year. I can tell you my well water definitely changes in > temperature > > over the seasons > > > > Cooler water will dissolve any minerals more slowly and make them > > less soluable. But unless you're drawing out water almost as fast > as > > it can be replenished, you will not see a difference in the amounts > > of these minerals in your water before the water hits your limestone > > filter as this water has had more than enough time to dissolve and > > absorb its compliment of the minerals it has been it contact with in > > the ground.. Any drop you are seeing in GH from the normal amount > > you're used to seeing after it passes through your limestone filter, > > must be due to the water not being able to pick up additional > > quantities of limestone as it passes through your filter due both in > > part to the water's lower temperature (and short time duration in > > contact with the filter limestone at this point), and any depletion > > of the limestone in your filter. > > > > As for your KH, while the above description is part of what's going > > on with it, additionally, the increased CO2 (as Carbonic Acid) is > > reducing the buffering capacity of your KH as it interacts on it. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone know if the CO2 level in tap water is greater during > > the cold months of the year? The reason I ask is because I have > > noticed that when I have done PWC the last couple of weeks there has > > been a lot of tiny bubbles coming from the water I have added from > > the tap (presumably from CO2).. It seems to take a lot longer than > > usual for them to clear up. I did a baseline ph on my tap water > > (well water) and found that the ph out of the tap was 6.6. (The > > lowest that I had previously noted was 7.0 out of the tap. It was > > 7.0 on 9/27 the last time I recorded it.) After 24 hours it was up > > to 7.2-7.3 and 7.4 after 48 hours. > > > > > > On 11/17 the ph of the tank was 7.8. Today after PWC (about 2 > > hours after) the ph was 7.4. I expect it will go back up to > > 7.8 within 2 days. The fish have not showed any ill effects from > > this. > > > > > > I also tested KH and GH on my tap water. The KH was 4, the same > > as last time (8/20). The GH was also 4, down from 8 the last time > > (8/20). Does cold weather lower GH in well water. Another > > possibility is the acid filter (limestone) that the tap water passes > > through is now becoming depleted. It was changed last June and > > should last until about that time next year. I'll recheck the KH and > > GH in about a week to see if they are the same. > > > Jimmy > > > Husser, LA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·..¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > __.._,_.___ > Messages in this topic (16) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > MARKETPLACE > > ________________________________ > From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods > > Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional > Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > Recent Activity > *  15 > New Members > *  4 > New PhotosVisit Your Group > Sitebuilder > Build a web site > quickly & easily > with Sitebuilder. > Dog Fanatics > on Yahoo! Groups > Find people who are > crazy about dogs. > Check out the > Y! Groups blog > Stay up to speed > on all things Groups! > . > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater chemistry

Your pH will ALWAYS change as the tank matures. During the cycling phase when you have elevated ammonia levels, the pH will sometimes go up a very small amount since ammonia has a pH of 11.. but you are only have a very small amount of ammonia (ppm = parts per million). As the ecology of the tank matures, the fish, critters and bacteria will all use up trace elements.. some of the same trace elements we use to measure GH and KH so as these levels go down, the pH will go down. This is the reason for regular PWC's... to replace the trace elements used up by the ecology of the tank and to remove/dilute the pollution in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Freshwater chemistry Thanks Steve. Also is it normal for a tank that is cycleing, to have it's PH fluctuate? It's only 0.02 of a change, but i was just wondering... Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lisa, > > You do not adjust the alkalinity of the water. It is what it is. > > FWIW, there are no measurements that are "normal". All measurements have > a value. Not to state those values, and the measurements mean nothing. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater chemistry > > How do I raise the alkalinity of the water? > I tested it this morning before I left for work, and I got a reading of > 40 > The colour chart indicated that it was just below normal. > PH > AMONIA > NITERITE > NITERATE > Are all normal > > Lisa > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 Tested on: 11/23/2008 7:18:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33512	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Freshwater chemistry

The pH should remain relatively stable when a tank is cycling, though it may drop some from the start to the finish of the establishment of the cycle, depending on the buffering capacity of the water. It should not be going up and down, unless you are doing water changes with water that will out gas CO2, thus raising the pH. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Freshwater chemistry Thanks Steve. Also is it normal for a tank that is cycleing, to have it's PH fluctuate? It's only 0.02 of a change, but i was just wondering... Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lisa, > > You do not adjust the alkalinity of the water. It is what it is. > > FWIW, there are no measurements that are "normal". All measurements have > a value. Not to state those values, and the measurements mean nothing. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater chemistry > > How do I raise the alkalinity of the water? > I tested it this morning before I left for work, and I got a reading of > 40 > The colour chart indicated that it was just below normal. > PH > AMONIA > NITERITE > NITERATE > Are all normal > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33513	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Any issues with injecting CO2 into all tanks thru a single air pump?

I have a bunch of tanks. Some planted, some are bare tanks with water, and killi fish. To make life easier, I was considering adding CO2 to the main air output line of a large air pump, that feeds many tanks. I'm assuming that there is no easy way to put CO2 into airlines so that each tank, with or with out plants, and various sized tanks, receive the correct dosage of CO2. Just writing this email suggest to me that it would be an accident waiting for a place to happen. Also, if I put a T in the output side of the air pump, and put CO2 in one side of the T, and left the other T pure air, I could connect only the planted tanks to the CO2 side of the T. Does that make sense? Would it work? Ok, experts, lets hear it. Jim, Sterling, VA.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33514	From: Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constricti

I have a bunch of tanks Im moving from first floor, to the basement laundry and furnace room. I want to build fish racks constructed of wood. It was highly suggested by a veteran fish breeder, to make it a stepped, 3 tier construction. And also to keep the bottom tank surface around waste level, with the strong opinion that tanks on the floor may get into problems due to visual neglect. I also was informed of a multiple tier stepped design using plywood sides, apparently for angel breeding. Also, I have a variety of tanks for 20 2.5G killis tanks, a bunch of 5, 10, and 29G tanks. Im planning on the 2.5G's at eyelevel, and the 5 and 10 on the middle tier, and the largest on the bottom tier. The space below the bottom tier, and in back of the tanks (since space is available under steps, is used for PVC pipes for water changes, and storage.) One picture, is worth ten thousand words. I would appreciate it if you would send photos of your fish rooms, AND RECOMMENDATIONS, of any changes in design you would recommend. Frankly, I cant wait to build the racks! This is a dream come true, and wife that doesn't mind me taking up the space in our basement. (I picked a winner... had to marry her twice to realize it... but it was worth it.) Jim, Sterling, VA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33515	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Any issues with injecting CO2 into all tanks thru a single air p

Jim, I am guessing that the only way you can do it is to have two separate systems, one for air, the other for CO2. On the CO2 tank, you'll have a pressure valve, and at each tank you would need a metering valve because each tank is going to have a different requirement for CO2. I see you list yourself as being in Sterling, VA. Have you heard of GWAPA? Check them out at www.gwapa.org. There next meeting is December 6th in Reston at the home of one of the members. Someone there may be able to tell you exactly how to do this kind of setup. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any issues with injecting CO2 into all tanks thru a single air pump??? I have a bunch of tanks. Some planted, some are bare tanks with water, and killi fish. To make life easier, I was considering adding CO2 to the main air output line of a large air pump, that feeds many tanks. I'm assuming that there is no easy way to put CO2 into airlines so that each tank, with or with out plants, and various sized tanks, receive the correct dosage of CO2. Just writing this email suggest to me that it would be an accident waiting for a place to happen. Also, if I put a T in the output side of the air pump, and put CO2 in one side of the T, and left the other T pure air, I could connect only the planted tanks to the CO2 side of the T. Does that make sense? Would it work? Ok, experts, lets hear it. Jim, Sterling, VA.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33516	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr

Jim, I've never seen a fishroom with a stepped construction as you wish to build. All are just built straight up, and nearly floor level tanks are generally used for fish that like cooler conditions than a tank higher up on the stand. Smaller tanks are normally placed on the top tiers and larger tanks on the lower tiers. Take some time to plan out your setup in your fish room, and try to leave enough room for expansion. Be sure to insulate the basement walls and ceiling with Styrofoam within the area that will be used as a fish room, and you plan for enough electrical outlets placed at convenient locations. Also pay attention to ceiling lighting fixtures as well as leaving enough room to supply addition lighting to the tanks on an as needed basis. Plan to construct a wall between your fishroom and the rest of the basement. Creating a vapor barrier is also a must do item that should be included in your plans. With the insulation and walling in of the area, you can save quite a bit on heating costs for the fishroom as the tanks will add heat to the air, and the insulation will keep it in, rather than spreading it through the house. Don't forget water drains so that you have a place to drain the water from water changes and a place for spilt water to go (and water will be spilled). Just some stuff off the top of my head. A little planning will go a long way for a nice fishroom. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constriction I have a bunch of tanks Im moving from first floor, to the basement laundry and furnace room. I want to build fish racks constructed of wood. It was highly suggested by a veteran fish breeder, to make it a stepped, 3 tier construction. And also to keep the bottom tank surface around waste level, with the strong opinion that tanks on the floor may get into problems due to visual neglect. I also was informed of a multiple tier stepped design using plywood sides, apparently for angel breeding. Also, I have a variety of tanks for 20 2.5G killis tanks, a bunch of 5, 10, and 29G tanks. Im planning on the 2.5G's at eyelevel, and the 5 and 10 on the middle tier, and the largest on the bottom tier. The space below the bottom tier, and in back of the tanks (since space is available under steps, is used for PVC pipes for water changes, and storage.) One picture, is worth ten thousand words. I would appreciate it if you would send photos of your fish rooms, AND RECOMMENDATIONS, of any changes in design you would recommend. Frankly, I cant wait to build the racks! This is a dream come true, and wife that doesn't mind me taking up the space in our basement. (I picked a winner... had to marry her twice to realize it... but it was worth it.) Jim, Sterling, VA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33517	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

Amber, Had you told us prior to this (or shown us a pic of your affected plant) that you were going to add Flourish Excel to your tank, we could have warned you not to. This subject has come up before, to which I've stated that Flourish Excel will melt Anacharis - - it should be in the archives. But I realize that unless you'd suspect something like that, that you would not expect it nor think of looking for it. Be aware too, that Flourish Excel will melt Valisneria (again I've post this, so it should be in the archives). I noticed Lenny reiterated the fact that I pointed out to you earlier today about not leaving Anacharis (or any bunch plant) in a tight bunch, and to plant each stalk separately when you do plant them. This is most important to allow light to reach this area of all these stems in the bunch. They can be planted in close proximity so as to appear as a bunch, yet they still need some space. Getting back to your main problem, I've just browsed all 115 of you posts since you started here on November 2nd in hopes of finding when you first set your tanks up, but have not seen anything on that; apparently no one has asked, unless I've missed that. I do see at that time you had a 10 gallon and a 55 gallon, both freshwater from what I gather by it. More recently, I see you mentioning a 125 gallon which I guess you've recently added (haven't seen it mentioned previously). I'm trying to have it clarified just which tank is having the cloudiness problem -- the 55 or this 125. I do note that an early post of yours states that your filter media was 2 1/2 months old at that time. More recently, you've added that your carbon is 2 months old. If the problem tank has only been set up now for a little better than two months, you should be advised that "newly" set up tanks often experience a period of cloudiness, as a mini-cycle, after your primary cycle has been established. This is well known as "New Tank Syndrome" and is the result of the nitrifiers still seeking a balance. It will dissipate over time. Noticing your Magnum 350 Pro, I thought I'd mention that the model without the biowheel is presently known as the Magnum 350 Deluxe, but then perhaps these labels have changed since you bought your apparently older model. Noticed too, your use of a Fluidized Bed Filter. All your references, from what I can see, are of freshwater fish, so I am assuming you do not have salt water. I'm curious as these filters are used primarily for marine set ups, although there's no reason why they can't be just as efficient with fresh water. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > after reading about the plant on plantgeek.net it seems that the > flourish excel may have caused the melting, here's what it says: > ****Special note**** This plant seems to be sensitive to Flourish Excel, > to the point it "melts" completely off if given enough. It is also > sensitive to bleach dips. > > Well now I know ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > That's Anacharis (aka Elodea). Next time, try letting it float for a while > > so it gets plenty of light and then when you plant it, don't bunch it > > up as > > the base of the stalks will rot. Just stick each stalk in and then pile > > some gravel up around them and in between them to hold them in place and > > they'll eventually root with little anchor roots. They are low to moderate > > light plants although they do great with lots of lighting also. I find > > they > > do best if left floating in the tank for a while until they start to grow > > roots and sprout new stalks... then plant it if you want... or leave it > > floating. It also needs lots of nutrients (nitrogenous waste, phosphates, > > etc.) since it's a fast growing plant in the right conditions so if > > you keep > > your tank too clean, it will not do well. Let your nitrates stay at least > > 10ppm. There are a couple of varieties so you want to check out > > PlantGeek's > > a little closer to see which variety you have. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart was this > > one: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1 880340 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ 1880340> > > 882/view?picmode= > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ 188034 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ 188034> > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ 188034 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ 188034> > > 0882/view?picmode= > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ 188034 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ 188034> > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). > > I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I took it out > > of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what the LFS > > suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough light), after > > that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant everywhere after > > that. > > Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when doing > > PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my carbon > > media > > in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned out the filter. > > And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it for me > > while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some > > reason, as > > I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in identifying it. > > > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not under > > > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not Crypts, note > > > that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL die > > > back this time of year heading into December and January as they go > > > dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear with new > > > growth from the bulb. > > > > > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. If this > > > is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you mentionerd, as > > > that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants (even including > > > your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch as it comes from > > > the LFS, but instead, should be separated and planted as individual > > > stalks (stems) close to but not touching each other. When planted as a > > > tight bunch, this prevents adequate water circulation around them and > > > greatly diminishes the light to the tightly bunched stems, which can't > > > penetrate between them. Other bunch plants might include Cabomba and > > > Anacharis, but could also be Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money Wort or > > > Ludwigia to name a few (we'd need to see them). > > > > > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I doubt > > > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep removing > > > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > > > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with aquarium > > > water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which is > > > especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > > > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half of your > > > filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > > > bacteria. > > > > > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're FEEDING this > > > bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water contains > > > any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > > > plantgeek.net. > > > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even > > > the > > > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if > > > it > > > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it didn't > > > seem > > > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it > > > a "bunch > > > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any > > > of > > > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she doesn't > > > do > > > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random > > > plants > > > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for > > > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm > > > not > > > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store aren't > > > > doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help that I have > > > a > > > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of > > > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it was > > > > mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my cloudy > > > tank, > > > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg>> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg>> > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg>> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg>> >> > > > > > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more > > > about it. > > > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash > > > the plants > > > > > yet. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > under > > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and I > > > > > didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today did > > > > > another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The tank > > > > > is still cloudy. I've > > > already > > > > > tried > > > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still > > > here and > > > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > > > water the > > > > > last > > > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too > > > tired to > > > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > > > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 > > > and > > > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent > > > water > > > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. I > > > removed > > > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > > > another plant > > > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was dying > > > as well. > > > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then > > > things > > > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm > > > going to do > > > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > > > > > collecting too much debris. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of > > > your > > > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... > > > meaning > > > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate > > > reading? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > > > cleaning on > > > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 months > > > old). > > > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change > > > earlier > > > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today > > > as well > > > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be bothered > > > by it, > > > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had > > > a plant > > > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it out > > > of my > > > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing > > > the > > > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > > > cloudiness, the > > > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days > > > since I > > > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > > Tested on: 11/23/2008 2:49:19 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33518	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

The 55 tank was set up middle of september initially. So the media is 2 months old in the filter (carbon). The 10 gallon is a month old now (the media), but I put in ornaments and a little of the carbon media from the 55 gallon. When I set up the 55 gallon I had used nitromax to start up the bacteria cycle which did lower the cycle time on it, but it wasn't anything drastic really. And it had finished cycling sometime in october, though I don't remember exactly when. The 125 gallon is currently not set up, it is sitting on my front porch half full of water and a little bleach, soaking for awhile (a few days, will see how much I feel like cleaning it later this week with the holiday coming and all). I took all of the live sand out (well nearly all, it's not easy scooping sand out of a 125 gallon tank that's still on the stand). It is sitting on the front porch in a garbage can for now, until I can figure out what to do with it, if I'm going to try reusing it or what. I'd hate to have to go spend 200 dollars on more sand when I could possibly reuse this sand. All of my tanks are freshwater (the 125 gallon will eventually be set up as freshwater after I clean it REALLY good, as it was sitting for 3 weeks without the filter running and smells horrid and is caked with algae). I don't want to rush the cleaning process and end up killing my fish somehow, but I did get LOTS of supplies with this big tank that I just picked up this afternoon. Some of the supplies I may not need as it's for saltwater, and I didn't even bother taking the salt mixes and such with me, as I wouldn't use them any time in the next several years at least ;). After taking all of the melted Anacharis plant out, the tank is slowly going back to normal (the cloudiness). I haven't used any more of the flourish excel yet as well. I'm also a bit on the poor side this week, since I just spent 250 on the new fish tank and accessories, so I won't be adding any more plants for a little while to replace the ones I pulled out. Maybe after I get my money back from DFS for the broken lights. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > Amber, Had you told us prior to this (or shown us a pic of your > affected plant) that you were going to add Flourish Excel to your > tank, we could have warned you not to. This subject has come up > before, to which I've stated that Flourish Excel will melt Anacharis - > - it should be in the archives. But I realize that unless you'd > suspect something like that, that you would not expect it nor think > of looking for it. Be aware too, that Flourish Excel will melt > Valisneria (again I've post this, so it should be in the archives). > > I noticed Lenny reiterated the fact that I pointed out to you earlier > today about not leaving Anacharis (or any bunch plant) in a tight > bunch, and to plant each stalk separately when you do plant them. > This is most important to allow light to reach this area of all these > stems in the bunch. They can be planted in close proximity so as to > appear as a bunch, yet they still need some space. > > Getting back to your main problem, I've just browsed all 115 of you > posts since you started here on November 2nd in hopes of finding when > you first set your tanks up, but have not seen anything on that; > apparently no one has asked, unless I've missed that. I do see at > that time you had a 10 gallon and a 55 gallon, both freshwater from > what I gather by it. More recently, I see you mentioning a 125 > gallon which I guess you've recently added (haven't seen it mentioned > previously). > > I'm trying to have it clarified just which tank is having the > cloudiness problem -- the 55 or this 125. I do note that an early > post of yours states that your filter media was 2 1/2 months old at > that time. More recently, you've added that your carbon is 2 months > old. If the problem tank has only been set up now for a little > better than two months, you should be advised that "newly" set up > tanks often experience a period of cloudiness, as a mini-cycle, after > your primary cycle has been established. This is well known as "New > Tank Syndrome" and is the result of the nitrifiers still seeking a > balance. It will dissipate over time. > > Noticing your Magnum 350 Pro, I thought I'd mention that the model > without the biowheel is presently known as the Magnum 350 Deluxe, but > then perhaps these labels have changed since you bought your > apparently older model. Noticed too, your use of a Fluidized Bed > Filter. All your references, from what I can see, are of freshwater > fish, so I am assuming you do not have salt water. I'm curious as > these filters are used primarily for marine set ups, although there's > no reason why they can't be just as efficient with fresh water. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > after reading about the plant on plantgeek.net it seems that the > > flourish excel may have caused the melting, here's what it says: > > ****Special note**** This plant seems to be sensitive to Flourish > Excel, > > to the point it "melts" completely off if given enough. It is also > > sensitive to bleach dips. > > > > Well now I know ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > That's Anacharis (aka Elodea). Next time, try letting it float > for a while > > > so it gets plenty of light and then when you plant it, don't > bunch it > > > up as > > > the base of the stalks will rot. Just stick each stalk in and > then pile > > > some gravel up around them and in between them to hold them in > place and > > > they'll eventually root with little anchor roots. They are low to > moderate > > > light plants although they do great with lots of lighting also. I > find > > > they > > > do best if left floating in the tank for a while until they start > to grow > > > roots and sprout new stalks... then plant it if you want... or > leave it > > > floating. It also needs lots of nutrients (nitrogenous waste, > phosphates, > > > etc.) since it's a fast growing plant in the right conditions so > if > > > you keep > > > your tank too clean, it will not do well. Let your nitrates stay > at least > > > 10ppm. There are a couple of varieties so you want to check out > > > PlantGeek's > > > a little closer to see which variety you have. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:13 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart > was this > > > one: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1> > 880340 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > 1880340> > > > 882/view?picmode= > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > 188034 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > 188034> > > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > 188034 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > 188034> > > > 0882/view?picmode= > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > 188034 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > 188034> > > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > > (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). > > > I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I > took it out > > > of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what > the LFS > > > suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough > light), after > > > that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant everywhere > after > > > that. > > > Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when > doing > > > PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my > carbon > > > media > > > in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned out the > filter. > > > And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it > for me > > > while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some > > > reason, as > > > I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in > identifying it. > > > > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not > under > > > > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not > Crypts, note > > > > that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL > die > > > > back this time of year heading into December and January as > they go > > > > dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear > with new > > > > growth from the bulb. > > > > > > > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. > If this > > > > is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you > mentionerd, as > > > > that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants (even > including > > > > your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch as it > comes from > > > > the LFS, but instead, should be separated and planted as > individual > > > > stalks (stems) close to but not touching each other. When > planted as a > > > > tight bunch, this prevents adequate water circulation around > them and > > > > greatly diminishes the light to the tightly bunched stems, > which can't > > > > penetrate between them. Other bunch plants might include > Cabomba and > > > > Anacharis, but could also be Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money > Wort or > > > > Ludwigia to name a few (we'd need to see them). > > > > > > > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I > doubt > > > > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep > removing > > > > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > > > > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with > aquarium > > > > water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which is > > > > especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > > > > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half > of your > > > > filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > > > > bacteria. > > > > > > > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're > FEEDING this > > > > bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water > contains > > > > any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > > > > plantgeek.net. > > > > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. > Even > > > > the > > > > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls > apart if > > > > it > > > > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it > didn't > > > > seem > > > > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called > it > > > > a "bunch > > > > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label > any > > > > of > > > > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she > doesn't > > > > do > > > > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders > random > > > > plants > > > > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to > care for > > > > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is > I'm > > > > not > > > > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store > aren't > > > > > doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help that > I have > > > > a > > > > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a > lot of > > > > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > > > > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), > it was > > > > > mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my > cloudy > > > > tank, > > > > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > melt.jpg>> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > melt.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > melt.jpg>> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > melt.jpg>> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read > more > > > > about it. > > > > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to > trash > > > > the plants > > > > > > yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > > under > > > > > > Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, > and I > > > > > > didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today > did > > > > > > another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The > tank > > > > > > is still cloudy. I've > > > > already > > > > > > tried > > > > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are > still > > > > here and > > > > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > > > > water the > > > > > > last > > > > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was > too > > > > tired to > > > > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today > either. > > > > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was > at .25 > > > > and > > > > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my > frequent > > > > water > > > > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a > cycle. I > > > > removed > > > > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > > > > another plant > > > > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was > dying > > > > as well. > > > > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause > then > > > > things > > > > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. > I'm > > > > going to do > > > > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure > it's not > > > > > > collecting too much debris. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the > cause of > > > > your > > > > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the > ammonia, > > > > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully > cycled... > > > > meaning > > > > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing > nitrate > > > > reading? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > > > > cleaning on > > > > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 > months > > > > old). > > > > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% > change > > > > earlier > > > > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory > today > > > > as well > > > > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be > bothered > > > > by it, > > > > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. > I had > > > > a plant > > > > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of > it out > > > > of my > > > > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be > causing > > > > the > > > > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > > > > cloudiness, the > > > > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of > days > > > > since I > > > > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > > > Tested on: 11/23/2008 2:49:19 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33519	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

Okay, so then its this 55 that you're having problems with. Glad to see its now going back to normal. Lots of luck with it -- don't get too upset with it. With patience and good tank maintenance it should clear out soon, on its own. Best of luck with that 125 too; nice size tank. A note of warning -- since this has been a salt water tank, I'd be suspect of the sand (gravel?) that it might contain a pH booster - water hardener (crushed coral, limestone, etc.). You might want to test that by filling a clean container with your well water (I think you said its soft/acid), testing it, and then adding a good amount of this sand. Let it set for a few days to a week and retest it to see if the parameters changed. If you're planning on using live plants, I'd rethink using this "sand" if it is a fine grained substrate. This may compact too much to allow for good root growth. Feel free to ask about any other problems that might come about. At least one of us is usually here to try offering you an answer even if some of us are not immediately available. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > The 55 tank was set up middle of september initially. So the media is 2 > months old in the filter (carbon). The 10 gallon is a month old now (the > media), but I put in ornaments and a little of the carbon media from the > 55 gallon. When I set up the 55 gallon I had used nitromax to start up > the bacteria cycle which did lower the cycle time on it, but it wasn't > anything drastic really. And it had finished cycling sometime in > october, though I don't remember exactly when. > The 125 gallon is currently not set up, it is sitting on my front porch > half full of water and a little bleach, soaking for awhile (a few days, > will see how much I feel like cleaning it later this week with the > holiday coming and all). I took all of the live sand out (well nearly > all, it's not easy scooping sand out of a 125 gallon tank that's still > on the stand). It is sitting on the front porch in a garbage can for > now, until I can figure out what to do with it, if I'm going to try > reusing it or what. I'd hate to have to go spend 200 dollars on more > sand when I could possibly reuse this sand. > All of my tanks are freshwater (the 125 gallon will eventually be set up > as freshwater after I clean it REALLY good, as it was sitting for 3 > weeks without the filter running and smells horrid and is caked with > algae). > I don't want to rush the cleaning process and end up killing my fish > somehow, but I did get LOTS of supplies with this big tank that I just > picked up this afternoon. Some of the supplies I may not need as it's > for saltwater, and I didn't even bother taking the salt mixes and such > with me, as I wouldn't use them any time in the next several years at > least ;). > After taking all of the melted Anacharis plant out, the tank is slowly > going back to normal (the cloudiness). I haven't used any more of the > flourish excel yet as well. I'm also a bit on the poor side this week, > since I just spent 250 on the new fish tank and accessories, so I won't > be adding any more plants for a little while to replace the ones I > pulled out. Maybe after I get my money back from DFS for the broken lights. > > Amber > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > Amber, Had you told us prior to this (or shown us a pic of your > > affected plant) that you were going to add Flourish Excel to your > > tank, we could have warned you not to. This subject has come up > > before, to which I've stated that Flourish Excel will melt Anacharis - > > - it should be in the archives. But I realize that unless you'd > > suspect something like that, that you would not expect it nor think > > of looking for it. Be aware too, that Flourish Excel will melt > > Valisneria (again I've post this, so it should be in the archives). > > > > I noticed Lenny reiterated the fact that I pointed out to you earlier > > today about not leaving Anacharis (or any bunch plant) in a tight > > bunch, and to plant each stalk separately when you do plant them. > > This is most important to allow light to reach this area of all these > > stems in the bunch. They can be planted in close proximity so as to > > appear as a bunch, yet they still need some space. > > > > Getting back to your main problem, I've just browsed all 115 of you > > posts since you started here on November 2nd in hopes of finding when > > you first set your tanks up, but have not seen anything on that; > > apparently no one has asked, unless I've missed that. I do see at > > that time you had a 10 gallon and a 55 gallon, both freshwater from > > what I gather by it. More recently, I see you mentioning a 125 > > gallon which I guess you've recently added (haven't seen it mentioned > > previously). > > > > I'm trying to have it clarified just which tank is having the > > cloudiness problem -- the 55 or this 125. I do note that an early > > post of yours states that your filter media was 2 1/2 months old at > > that time. More recently, you've added that your carbon is 2 months > > old. If the problem tank has only been set up now for a little > > better than two months, you should be advised that "newly" set up > > tanks often experience a period of cloudiness, as a mini-cycle, after > > your primary cycle has been established. This is well known as "New > > Tank Syndrome" and is the result of the nitrifiers still seeking a > > balance. It will dissipate over time. > > > > Noticing your Magnum 350 Pro, I thought I'd mention that the model > > without the biowheel is presently known as the Magnum 350 Deluxe, but > > then perhaps these labels have changed since you bought your > > apparently older model. Noticed too, your use of a Fluidized Bed > > Filter. All your references, from what I can see, are of freshwater > > fish, so I am assuming you do not have salt water. I'm curious as > > these filters are used primarily for marine set ups, although there's > > no reason why they can't be just as efficient with fresh water. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > after reading about the plant on plantgeek.net it seems that the > > > flourish excel may have caused the melting, here's what it says: > > > ****Special note**** This plant seems to be sensitive to Flourish > > Excel, > > > to the point it "melts" completely off if given enough. It is also > > > sensitive to bleach dips. > > > > > > Well now I know ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > That's Anacharis (aka Elodea). Next time, try letting it float > > for a while > > > > so it gets plenty of light and then when you plant it, don't > > bunch it > > > > up as > > > > the base of the stalks will rot. Just stick each stalk in and > > then pile > > > > some gravel up around them and in between them to hold them in > > place and > > > > they'll eventually root with little anchor roots. They are low to > > moderate > > > > light plants although they do great with lots of lighting also. I > > find > > > > they > > > > do best if left floating in the tank for a while until they start > > to grow > > > > roots and sprout new stalks... then plant it if you want... or > > leave it > > > > floating. It also needs lots of nutrients (nitrogenous waste, > > phosphates, > > > > etc.) since it's a fast growing plant in the right conditions so > > if > > > > you keep > > > > your tank too clean, it will not do well. Let your nitrates stay > > at least > > > > 10ppm. There are a couple of varieties so you want to check out > > > > PlantGeek's > > > > a little closer to see which variety you have. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:13 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart > > was this > > > > one: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ 1> > > 880340 > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > > 1880340> > > > > 882/view?picmode= > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > > 188034 > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > > 188034> > > > > 0882/view? picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > > 188034 > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > > 188034> > > > > 0882/view?picmode= > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > > 188034 > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > > 188034> > > > > 0882/view? picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). > > > > I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I > > took it out > > > > of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what > > the LFS > > > > suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough > > light), after > > > > that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant everywhere > > after > > > > that. > > > > Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when > > doing > > > > PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my > > carbon > > > > media > > > > in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned out the > > filter. > > > > And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it > > for me > > > > while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some > > > > reason, as > > > > I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in > > identifying it. > > > > > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not > > under > > > > > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not > > Crypts, note > > > > > that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL > > die > > > > > back this time of year heading into December and January as > > they go > > > > > dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear > > with new > > > > > growth from the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. > > If this > > > > > is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you > > mentionerd, as > > > > > that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants (even > > including > > > > > your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch as it > > comes from > > > > > the LFS, but instead, should be separated and planted as > > individual > > > > > stalks (stems) close to but not touching each other. When > > planted as a > > > > > tight bunch, this prevents adequate water circulation around > > them and > > > > > greatly diminishes the light to the tightly bunched stems, > > which can't > > > > > penetrate between them. Other bunch plants might include > > Cabomba and > > > > > Anacharis, but could also be Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money > > Wort or > > > > > Ludwigia to name a few (we'd need to see them). > > > > > > > > > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I > > doubt > > > > > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep > > removing > > > > > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > > > > > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with > > aquarium > > > > > water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which is > > > > > especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > > > > > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half > > of your > > > > > filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > > > > > bacteria. > > > > > > > > > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're > > FEEDING this > > > > > bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water > > contains > > > > > any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > > > > > plantgeek.net. > > > > > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. > > Even > > > > > the > > > > > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls > > apart if > > > > > it > > > > > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it > > didn't > > > > > seem > > > > > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called > > it > > > > > a "bunch > > > > > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label > > any > > > > > of > > > > > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she > > doesn't > > > > > do > > > > > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders > > random > > > > > plants > > > > > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to > > care for > > > > > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is > > I'm > > > > > not > > > > > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store > > aren't > > > > > > doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help that > > I have > > > > > a > > > > > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a > > lot of > > > > > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > > > > > > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), > > it was > > > > > > mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my > > cloudy > > > > > tank, > > > > > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > > > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > > melt.jpg > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > > melt.jpg>> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > > melt.jpg > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg>> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > > melt.jpg > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > > melt.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > > melt.jpg>> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > > melt.jpg > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- melt.jpg>> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > > melt.jpg > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the- > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-> > > melt.jpg>> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read > > more > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to > > trash > > > > > the plants > > > > > > > yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > >> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > > > under > > > > > > > Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, > > and I > > > > > > > didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today > > did > > > > > > > another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The > > tank > > > > > > > is still cloudy. I've > > > > > already > > > > > > > tried > > > > > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are > > still > > > > > here and > > > > > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > > > > > water the > > > > > > > last > > > > > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was > > too > > > > > tired to > > > > > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today > > either. > > > > > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was > > at .25 > > > > > and > > > > > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my > > frequent > > > > > water > > > > > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a > > cycle. I > > > > > removed > > > > > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > > > > > another plant > > > > > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was > > dying > > > > > as well. > > > > > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause > > then > > > > > things > > > > > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. > > I'm > > > > > going to do > > > > > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure > > it's not > > > > > > > collecting too much debris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the > > cause of > > > > > your > > > > > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the > > ammonia, > > > > > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully > > cycled... > > > > > meaning > > > > > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing > > nitrate > > > > > reading? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > > > > > cleaning on > > > > > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 > > months > > > > > old). > > > > > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% > > change > > > > > earlier > > > > > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory > > today > > > > > as well > > > > > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be > > bothered > > > > > by it, > > > > > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. > > I had > > > > > a plant > > > > > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of > > it out > > > > > of my > > > > > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be > > causing > > > > > the > > > > > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > > > > > cloudiness, the > > > > > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of > > days > > > > > since I > > > > > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > > > > Tested on: 11/23/2008 2:49:19 PM > > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33520	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: ongoing betta saga:

my betta I wrote about a while ago, has now come to life and is swimming a bit but his tail is almost all gone! :( Would this be fin rot or just from stress? Any ideas about what to do, appreciated. thanks, Erin B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33521	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: ongoing betta saga:

Fin rot is typically due to external bacterial issues. Often the fish will have a resistance to many of these but when a fish gets stressed or sick, it's immune system will falter and then these other issues can affect the weakened fish. I had to go back and look for your previous messages and I see this was the Betta that had the cooking oil accidentally added to his bowl. I'm glad to see he recovered. How much of the fin is left? Are you talking about the tail fin? As long as the fin isn't rotted down to the peduncle.. the actual meat of the fish, then it can grow back but it will take a while. Keeping the water in excellent condition will help so keep up with frequent (maybe even daily) 25% PWC's and vacuuming the gravel so the water stays clean but does not change too much, too fast. Many people do drastic water changes with their Bettas in the small vases and this is not good for the fish. What kinds of medicines do you have on hand? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ongoing betta saga: my betta I wrote about a while ago, has now come to life and is swimming a bit but his tail is almost all gone! :( Would this be fin rot or just from stress? Any ideas about what to do, appreciated. thanks, Erin B. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 Tested on: 11/23/2008 10:08:51 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33522	From: hank voss	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > Steve: when I was in Jersey my setup was tiered,worked great lowest tanks were at waist level,highest at eye level.My setup here in fla.is 1/10 the size of the one I had before but it is still tier profile. Hank ===================================== > Jim, > > I've never seen a fishroom with a stepped construction as you wish to > build. All are just built straight up, and nearly floor level tanks are > generally used for fish that like cooler conditions than a tank higher > up on the stand. Smaller tanks are normally placed on the top tiers and > larger tanks on the lower tiers. > > Take some time to plan out your setup in your fish room, and try to > leave enough room for expansion. Be sure to insulate the basement walls > and ceiling with Styrofoam within the area that will be used as a fish > room, and you plan for enough electrical outlets placed at convenient > locations. Also pay attention to ceiling lighting fixtures as well as > leaving enough room to supply addition lighting to the tanks on an as > needed basis. Plan to construct a wall between your fishroom and the > rest of the basement. Creating a vapor barrier is also a must do item > that should be included in your plans. With the insulation and walling > in of the area, you can save quite a bit on heating costs for the > fishroom as the tanks will add heat to the air, and the insulation will > keep it in, rather than spreading it through the house. > > Don't forget water drains so that you have a place to drain the water > from water changes and a place for spilt water to go (and water will be > spilled). > > Just some stuff off the top of my head. A little planning will go a long > way for a nice fishroom. > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33523	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: betta saga

The poor guy, his tail fin is in most places right down to the base of his body. I don't have any medecine for this on hand. Any that you would recommend ? and thank you for taking the time to reply :) thanks, Erin B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33524	From: pomlady101	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: betta saga:

good to know about the water as well. I always left about a quarter of his 2.5 gallon tank but from now on I will do less more often. Erin B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33525	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: betta saga

I would have probably started using Melafix at 1/2 dosage earlier on... but if it's already down to the peduncle, those sections probably will not grow back. Since your fin rot is much worse, a stronger broad spectrum antibiotic is probably called for... Maracyn 1 & 2 (combined) are one option but if that isn't available, let us know what is. Go to the longer link below.... or if that link breaks, use the TinyURL and then click on the link to Bacterial Finrot. http://www.tinyurl.com/2m83ee http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html#Finrot Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re: betta saga The poor guy, his tail fin is in most places right down to the base of his body. I don't have any medecine for this on hand. Any that you would recommend ? and thank you for taking the time to reply :) thanks, Erin B. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 Tested on: 11/23/2008 11:53:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: betta saga:

Do you have a filter system in his 2.5G? Tetra and others make a small internal filter powered by an air pump and airline which will help keep his water in better condition... or a small powered internal filter that does not make bubbles is also good for a Betta since they like to make bubble nests so surface agitation isn't something they like. If you did that, you could probably do two 25% PWC's a week once he's healed back up and healthy. If you don't have a filter, I would do at least 25% every other day. Right now, while he's sick, keep up with the daily 25% PWC's to get the water in really good shape and then follow the directions of your medicine choice. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] betta saga: good to know about the water as well. I always left about a quarter of his 2.5 gallon tank but from now on I will do less more often. Erin B. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 Tested on: 11/23/2008 11:58:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33527	From: Lisa	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Is natural light enough?

My tank faces a window in my bedroom, so it recieves bright indirect light. (between morning and mid-day) The cavity (old tv unit) where the tank now sits has minimal space between the tanks glass lid and the top of the cavity. Could live plants survive that require low light, if sufficiant CO2's and plant food are added? thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33528	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2008
Subject: Re: Is natural light enough?

If... and that's a big "If"... any low-light, easy to grow plants could make it, they would not need CO2 or added plant food. CO2 and added nutrients are mostly needed for fast growing and harder to grow plants in high tech tanks with good lighting. Check the link for Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank" blog and you could try a couple of them to see how they do. Do you have at least 2" between the top of the tank and the enclosure? A small fluorescent light fixture only sticks up a couple of inches. If that isn't an option, then a lamp.. like a brass bankers lamp... with one of the screw-in coiled fluorescent bulbs, directed at the tank would help also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Is natural light enough? My tank faces a window in my bedroom, so it recieves bright indirect light. (between morning and mid-day) The cavity (old tv unit) where the tank now sits has minimal space between the tanks glass lid and the top of the cavity. Could live plants survive that require low light, if sufficiant CO2's and plant food are added? thanks Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 Tested on: 11/24/2008 12:45:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33529	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Cycling Q.

Hi, When a tank finished cycling, can you replace all its water with water from an old tank without harming the N-Bacteria? I will need to move some really small fry to the newly cycled tank soon, and don't want them to experience a huge change. Thanks for any advise Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33530	From: Lisa	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Is natural light enough?

I think a lamp would be the better option. I still need access to the tank's lids Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If... and that's a big "If"... any low-light, easy to grow plants could make > it, they would not need CO2 or added plant food. CO2 and added nutrients > are mostly needed for fast growing and harder to grow plants in high tech > tanks with good lighting. Check the link for Very Easy plants on my > "Planted Tank" blog and you could try a couple of them to see how they do. > > Do you have at least 2" between the top of the tank and the enclosure? A > small fluorescent light fixture only sticks up a couple of inches. If that > isn't an option, then a lamp.. like a brass bankers lamp... with one of the > screw-in coiled fluorescent bulbs, directed at the tank would help also. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Is natural light enough? > > My tank faces a window in my bedroom, so it recieves bright indirect light. > (between morning and mid-day) The cavity (old tv unit) where the tank now > sits has minimal space between the tanks glass lid and the top of the > cavity. > Could live plants survive that require low light, if sufficiant CO2's and > plant food are added? > > thanks > Lisa > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 > Tested on: 11/24/2008 12:45:17 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33531	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Q.

As concerns the nitrifying bacteria, yes you can replace all of this tanks water with water from an old tank. It would be the same as transferring the filter to another tank. The N-Bacteria are primarily in the filter, with some on all other surfaces (substrate and tank walls); the water column has comparatively little N-bacteria. Now, as concerns the really small fry, you cannot do this unless you're sure that all parameters of this "old tank" water closely matches that of this tank's present water which you'll be discarding. Too, if this old tank's water has been allowed to go acid, that may adversely affect the N-Bacteria if your cycled tank has alkaline water, but then my recommendation of having both waters matching already precludes this guideline. Its widely known though that most bacteria don't do as well in acid conditions, but then some hobbyists do cycle their tanks in acid water. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi, > When a tank finished cycling, can you replace all its water with water from an old tank without harming the N-Bacteria? > I will need to move some really small fry to the newly cycled tank soon, and don't want them to experience a huge change. > > Thanks for any advise > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33532	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Cycling Q.

It shouldn't cause a big problem. The N-bacteria can be affected by water parameter changes just like the fish but not to the point where you will have a large die-off of N-bacteria. They should be fine. Check your ammonia/nitrite levels for a couple of days after the move to make sure things are OK. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling Q. Hi, When a tank finished cycling, can you replace all its water with water from an old tank without harming the N-Bacteria? I will need to move some really small fry to the newly cycled tank soon, and don't want them to experience a huge change. Thanks for any advise Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 Tested on: 11/24/2008 7:56:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33533	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Is natural light enough?

The fluorescent fixture could just sit right on top of the tank lids and you could remove it first, then the lids... but if you have a lamp, that would work fine also. A fluorescent fixture right on top of the tank would provide more/better lighting inside the tank compared to a lamp shining into the tank where a lot of the light will be reflected by the glass... but which ever works best for you will help supplement the lighting. You might be able to find a used fluorescent fixture for a very low cost. Do you all have FreeCycle.org groups down under? Try posting on there and any other freebie/used places. Do you have Craigslist.org's down there? Another thing I thought I'd mention since you brought up algae recently... is the "natural" lighting from outside while good for plants.. is also more likely to cause algae... so once you get your lamp/fixture, you might want to use it more and rely on outside lighting less. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 1:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Is natural light enough? I think a lamp would be the better option. I still need access to the tank's lids Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If... and that's a big "If"... any low-light, easy to grow plants could make > it, they would not need CO2 or added plant food. CO2 and added nutrients > are mostly needed for fast growing and harder to grow plants in high tech > tanks with good lighting. Check the link for Very Easy plants on my > "Planted Tank" blog and you could try a couple of them to see how they do. > > Do you have at least 2" between the top of the tank and the enclosure? A > small fluorescent light fixture only sticks up a couple of inches. If that > isn't an option, then a lamp.. like a brass bankers lamp... with one of the > screw-in coiled fluorescent bulbs, directed at the tank would help also. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Is natural light enough? > > My tank faces a window in my bedroom, so it recieves bright indirect light. > (between morning and mid-day) The cavity (old tv unit) where the tank now > sits has minimal space between the tanks glass lid and the top of the > cavity. > Could live plants survive that require low light, if sufficiant CO2's and > plant food are added? > > thanks > Lisa > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 Tested on: 11/24/2008 > 12:45:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 Tested on: 11/24/2008 4:20:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 Tested on: 11/24/2008 8:18:41 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33534	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr

\\Steve//, While many set ups I've seen are also built just straight up, if what Hank means as "tiered" is in actuality "stepped," many of my racks are similar. You want to have at least 6" working space between the top of your tanks and the rail of the next tier higher (preferably more, if possible). As you mentioned, the rows of tank sizes are best graduated with the larger ones on the bottom-most row (s) and the smaller tanks on the top rows. This aids in being able to see what's going on in all tanks, and of course helps in stabilizing the whole rack -- having most of the weight near the bottom. Depending on the sizes of one's tanks and one's ceiling height, it may not be possible to have more than one or two levels of larger tanks if you wanted them. By stepping them, you can open up your working space above your tanks immensely if you can't increase this working space otherwise, and you only need to step them out 6" to give you much more room for netting fish and for ease of getting your arm in the tanks for cleaning if necessary. In this way, you can have several levels of large tanks without needing an extension ladder to reach the top level (LOL). Stepping them also helps in stabilizing the racks especially when one uses multiple levels of larger tanks. While its generally best to have your smaller tanks on the top rows, Jim needs to keep in mind that while some Killiefish like it somewhat warm, especially the top dwellers (Aplochielus, Epiplatys, etc.), many prefer it cooler (especially Diapterons, many Aphyosemions such as some of the A. elberti's which come from higher elevation forested/shady areas, etc.). These fish would do best near the bottom of a rack. With certain exceptions, Killiefish in general -- such as what Jim's interested in -- are known to prefer cooler water, but their preferences can vary considerably depending on species. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > Steve: > when I was in Jersey my setup was tiered,worked great lowest > tanks were at waist level,highest at eye level.My setup here in > fla.is 1/10 the size of the one I had before but it is still tier > profile. > Hank > ===================================== > > Jim, > > > > I've never seen a fishroom with a stepped construction as you wish > to > > build. All are just built straight up, and nearly floor level tanks > are > > generally used for fish that like cooler conditions than a tank > higher > > up on the stand. Smaller tanks are normally placed on the top tiers > and > > larger tanks on the lower tiers. > > > > Take some time to plan out your setup in your fish room, and try to > > leave enough room for expansion. Be sure to insulate the basement > walls > > and ceiling with Styrofoam within the area that will be used as a > fish > > room, and you plan for enough electrical outlets placed at > convenient > > locations. Also pay attention to ceiling lighting fixtures as well > as > > leaving enough room to supply addition lighting to the tanks on an > as > > needed basis. Plan to construct a wall between your fishroom and the > > rest of the basement. Creating a vapor barrier is also a must do > item > > that should be included in your plans. With the insulation and > walling > > in of the area, you can save quite a bit on heating costs for the > > fishroom as the tanks will add heat to the air, and the insulation > will > > keep it in, rather than spreading it through the house. > > > > Don't forget water drains so that you have a place to drain the > water > > from water changes and a place for spilt water to go (and water > will be > > spilled). > > > > Just some stuff off the top of my head. A little planning will go a > long > > way for a nice fishroom. > > > > \\Steve// > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33535	From: hank voss	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > \\Steve//, While many set ups I've seen are also built just straight > up, if what Hank means as "tiered" is in actuality "stepped," many of \ ================================= Ray/Jim: My racks were stepped with three tiers.One rack was 20Ls and the other 2 were 10G with 5Gs on top.By using the step principal and making it modual you can get away with lighter wood rather than using 2x4s.Mine were made out of firring strips and were rock solid when full.There was 3in.between top of tank and above support rail. There was around 6in. of working space that jutted out from the tanks above. I wish I had a picture of them (a lot of people could not beleive that they would hold all those tanks) . Regards Hank > my racks are similar. You want to have at least 6" working space > between the top of your tanks and the rail of the next tier higher > (preferably more, if possible). As you mentioned, the rows of tank > sizes are best graduated with the larger ones on the bottom-most row > (s) and the smaller tanks on the top rows. This aids in being able > to see what's going on in all tanks, and of course helps in > stabilizing the whole rack -- having most of the weight near the > bottom. > > Depending on the sizes of one's tanks and one's ceiling height, it > may not be possible to have more than one or two levels of larger > tanks if you wanted them. By stepping them, you can open up your > working space above your tanks immensely if you can't increase this > working space otherwise, and you only need to step them out 6" to > give you much more room for netting fish and for ease of getting your > arm in the tanks for cleaning if necessary. In this way, you can > have several levels of large tanks without needing an extension > ladder to reach the top level (LOL). Stepping them also helps in > stabilizing the racks especially when one uses multiple levels of > larger tanks. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > Steve: > > when I was in Jersey my setup was tiered,worked great lowest > > tanks were at waist level,highest at eye level.My setup here in > > fla.is 1/10 the size of the one I had before but it is still tier > > profile. > > Hank > > ===================================== > > > Jim, > > > > > > I've never seen a fishroom with a stepped construction as you > wish > > to > > > build. All are just built straight up, and nearly floor level > tanks > > are > > > generally used for fish that like cooler conditions than a tank > > higher > > > up on the stand. Smaller tanks are normally placed on the top > tiers > > and > > > larger tanks on the lower tiers. > > > > > > Take some time to plan out your setup in your fish room, and try > to > > > leave enough room for expansion. Be sure to insulate the basement > > walls > > > and ceiling with Styrofoam within the area that will be used as a > > fish > > > room, and you plan for enough electrical outlets placed at > > convenient > > > locations. Also pay attention to ceiling lighting fixtures as > well > > as > > > leaving enough room to supply addition lighting to the tanks on > an > > as > > > needed basis. Plan to construct a wall between your fishroom and > the > > > rest of the basement. Creating a vapor barrier is also a must do > > item > > > that should be included in your plans. With the insulation and > > walling > > > in of the area, you can save quite a bit on heating costs for the > > > fishroom as the tanks will add heat to the air, and the > insulation > > will > > > keep it in, rather than spreading it through the house. > > > > > > Don't forget water drains so that you have a place to drain the > > water > > > from water changes and a place for spilt water to go (and water > > will be > > > spilled). > > > > > > Just some stuff off the top of my head. A little planning will go > a > > long > > > way for a nice fishroom. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33536	From: bill1433	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr

Hi Hank!   How about a picture or two for the group.  I'm sure others would be most interested in your setup?  I know I would.   Bill --- On Mon, 11/24/08, hank voss <aatetras@...> wrote: From: hank voss <aatetras@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constriction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 10:52 AM --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > \\Steve//, While many set ups I've seen are also built just straight > up, if what Hank means as "tiered" is in actuality "stepped," many of \ ============ ========= ========= === Ray/Jim: My racks were stepped with three tiers.One rack was 20Ls and the other 2 were 10G with 5Gs on top.By using the step principal and making it modual you can get away with lighter wood rather than using 2x4s.Mine were made out of firring strips and were rock solid when full.There was 3in.between top of tank and above support rail. There was around 6in. of working space that jutted out from the tanks above. I wish I had a picture of them (a lot of people could not beleive that they would hold all those tanks) .. Regards Hank > my racks are similar. You want to have at least 6" working space > between the top of your tanks and the rail of the next tier higher > (preferably more, if possible). As you mentioned, the rows of tank > sizes are best graduated with the larger ones on the bottom-most row > (s) and the smaller tanks on the top rows. This aids in being able > to see what's going on in all tanks, and of course helps in > stabilizing the whole rack -- having most of the weight near the > bottom. > > Depending on the sizes of one's tanks and one's ceiling height, it > may not be possible to have more than one or two levels of larger > tanks if you wanted them. By stepping them, you can open up your > working space above your tanks immensely if you can't increase this > working space otherwise, and you only need to step them out 6" to > give you much more room for netting fish and for ease of getting your > arm in the tanks for cleaning if necessary. In this way, you can > have several levels of large tanks without needing an extension > ladder to reach the top level (LOL). Stepping them also helps in > stabilizing the racks especially when one uses multiple levels of > larger tanks. > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > Steve: > > when I was in Jersey my setup was tiered,worked great lowest > > tanks were at waist level,highest at eye level.My setup here in > > fla.is 1/10 the size of the one I had before but it is still tier > > profile. > > Hank > > ============ ========= ========= ======= > > > Jim, > > > > > > I've never seen a fishroom with a stepped construction as you > wish > > to > > > build. All are just built straight up, and nearly floor level > tanks > > are > > > generally used for fish that like cooler conditions than a tank > > higher > > > up on the stand. Smaller tanks are normally placed on the top > tiers > > and > > > larger tanks on the lower tiers. > > > > > > Take some time to plan out your setup in your fish room, and try > to > > > leave enough room for expansion. Be sure to insulate the basement > > walls > > > and ceiling with Styrofoam within the area that will be used as a > > fish > > > room, and you plan for enough electrical outlets placed at > > convenient > > > locations. Also pay attention to ceiling lighting fixtures as > well > > as > > > leaving enough room to supply addition lighting to the tanks on > an > > as > > > needed basis. Plan to construct a wall between your fishroom and > the > > > rest of the basement. Creating a vapor barrier is also a must do > > item > > > that should be included in your plans. With the insulation and > > walling > > > in of the area, you can save quite a bit on heating costs for the > > > fishroom as the tanks will add heat to the air, and the > insulation > > will > > > keep it in, rather than spreading it through the house. > > > > > > Don't forget water drains so that you have a place to drain the > > water > > > from water changes and a place for spilt water to go (and water > > will be > > > spilled). > > > > > > Just some stuff off the top of my head. A little planning will go > a > > long > > > way for a nice fishroom. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33537	From: jett07002	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

I, also, like Anacharis. The info Lenny and \\Steve// have rendered is all good. I would just like to add, from my experience: 1) Check plants out thoroughly at the LFS. If any stems (cutting plants, I'm referring to) are browning at the cutt edges, they are already on their way out. Don't buy them. The plants should be crisp. "Accidentally" break a stem. If it doesn't snap, it's not fresh. 2) If your tank is kept real warm it will not do well. Slowly let it acclimate to the warmer water gradually before you put it in the aquarium. 3) If you want to plant them in the gravel, don't dig them in. If you break or squash the stems they are going to rot. I put a plant weight very loosely around them individually, not as a bunch, and just let them lay on the gravel. They will soon make roots and take hold. At that stage, you can take the weights off. If you weighed them down loosely, the weights will come off easily without disturbing the plants. 4) The other option is to let them float until they make roots, or permanently if you prefer. . This plant can make an aquarium very naturalized and the fish love the cover when the plant grows to the top and starts to lay on the water surface. Oh, and like Lenny, I don't fertilize mine. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yep, that seems to be the problem.... I didn't know that.. but then I've > never used any plant nutrients in my tanks other than what my water, fish > and critters provide. I'll have to remember this since I have Anacharis in > most of my tanks since it grows so well for me. I wonder why the Excel does > that? I thought Excel was like a liquid CO2 type product and I know that > Anacharis likes lots of CO2 which is why it grows up to the surface to get > CO2 out of the surface air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again > > after reading about the plant on plantgeek.net it seems that the flourish > excel may have caused the melting, here's what it says: > ****Special note**** This plant seems to be sensitive to Flourish Excel, to > the point it "melts" completely off if given enough. It is also sensitive to > bleach dips. > > Well now I know ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > That's Anacharis (aka Elodea). Next time, try letting it float for a > > while so it gets plenty of light and then when you plant it, don't > > bunch it up as the base of the stalks will rot. Just stick each stalk > > in and then pile some gravel up around them and in between them to > > hold them in place and they'll eventually root with little anchor > > roots. They are low to moderate light plants although they do great > > with lots of lighting also. I find they do best if left floating in > > the tank for a while until they start to grow roots and sprout new > > stalks... then plant it if you want... or leave it floating. It also > > needs lots of nutrients (nitrogenous waste, phosphates, > > etc.) since it's a fast growing plant in the right conditions so if > > you keep your tank too clean, it will not do well. Let your nitrates > > stay at least 10ppm. There are a couple of varieties so you want to > > check out PlantGeek's a little closer to see which variety you have. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart was > > this > > one: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1 > > 880340 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 1880340> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 1880340 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 1880340> > 882/view?picmode= > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034> > > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034> > 0882/view?picmode= > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034 > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 188034> > > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). > > I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I took it > > out of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what the > > LFS suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough > > light), after that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant > > everywhere after that. > > Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when > > doing PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my > > carbon media in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned > > out the filter. > > And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it for > > me while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some > > reason, as I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in identifying it. > > > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not under > > > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not Crypts, > > > note that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL > > > die back this time of year heading into December and January as they > > > go dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear with > > > new growth from the bulb. > > > > > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. If > > > this is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you > > > mentionerd, as that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants > > > (even including your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch > > > as it comes from the LFS, but instead, should be separated and > > > planted as individual stalks (stems) close to but not touching each > > > other. When planted as a tight bunch, this prevents adequate water > > > circulation around them and greatly diminishes the light to the > > > tightly bunched stems, which can't penetrate between them. Other > > > bunch plants might include Cabomba and Anacharis, but could also be > > > Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money Wort or Ludwigia to name a few (we'd > need to see them). > > > > > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I doubt > > > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep removing > > > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > > > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with > > > aquarium water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which > > > is especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > > > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half of > > > your filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > > > bacteria. > > > > > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're FEEDING > > > this bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water > > > contains any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > > > plantgeek.net. > > > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even > > > the > > > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if > > > it > > > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it > > > > didn't > > > seem > > > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it > > > a "bunch > > > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any > > > of > > > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she > > > > doesn't > > > do > > > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random > > > plants > > > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for > > > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm > > > not > > > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store > > > > aren't doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help > > > > that I have > > > a > > > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of > > > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it > > > > was mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my > > > > cloudy > > > tank, > > > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jp > > > > > g> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> >> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> >> > > > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> >> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more > > > about it. > > > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash > > > the plants > > > > > yet. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > >> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > under > > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and > > > > > I didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today did > > > > > another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The tank > > > > > is still cloudy. I've > > > already > > > > > tried > > > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still > > > here and > > > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > > > water the > > > > > last > > > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too > > > tired to > > > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > > > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 > > > and > > > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent > > > water > > > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. > > > > > I > > > removed > > > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > > > another plant > > > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was > > > > > dying > > > as well. > > > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then > > > things > > > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm > > > going to do > > > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > > > > > collecting too much debris. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of > > > your > > > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... > > > meaning > > > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate > > > reading? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > > > cleaning on > > > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 > > > > > > months > > > old). > > > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change > > > earlier > > > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today > > > as well > > > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be > > > > > > bothered > > > by it, > > > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had > > > a plant > > > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it > > > > > > out > > > of my > > > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing > > > the > > > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > > > cloudiness, the > > > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days > > > since I > > > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > Tested on: 11/23/2008 3:27:58 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33538	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?

Hi again! In all my distress over my platys with ich, I almost forgot to introduce the male betta which joined my household less than 24 hours ago. He is in an unheated bowl, but the info sheet from the petstore recommends water temp from mid-60's through 70's F. The ambient temperature in my home isn't anywhere near that high, and unheated water will stay around 60-62 F this time of year. We actually left the heat on in the house for him today - but is it necessary? Do bettas prefer warmer water, or would he be ok in an unheated tank? How do you heat a betta bowl? If he needs a submersible heater, maybe I should move him to a rectangular tank. Once again, I'm open to (knowledgable) suggestions! Thanks in advance.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33539	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: New Member - could use some help with ich and a new tank

Hi all! I'm delighted to join this group! My family recently started a new 8- gallon biocube with two female platys. We are trying to follow all the instructions for avoiding new-tank trouble, but the fish came down with ich after only about two days. After three days of treatment, one of the fish appeared to be on the mend, but after two more days of treatment, she shows more signs of infection. Doesn't ich usually go away more rapidly, if treated appropriately? The other fish has been sitting on the bottom most of the time, and hardly rouses herself for food. The other, more vigorous one, seems to get everything. Here's what we've been doing to help these poor fish - please tell me if you have suggestions: 1. increased temp to 80 F (that's as high as our heater seems to go) 2. added a pinch of aquarium salt and melafix 3. daily treatment with Ich Clear tablets following package instructions, including 25% water change prior to each treatment 4. The usual new-tank precautions, including avoiding over-feeding and regular water checks. Any ideas? Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33540	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?

Um, well, one kind needed really hard scrubbing to get it off my glass. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: What is this brown stuff? It's better not to add chemicals (products) to your tank to solve problems. On another forum we are trying to help a newbie who added such a product save his last fish. Use natural methods to prevent algae such as reduced lighting and no overfeeding. The diatoms are harmless and do not need daily scrubbing.they are also not caused by too much light or fish food. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is this brown stuff? Thanks Lenny and Dora, Good to know they are not a unwanted perminant fixture to my new tank. lol I'll just have to do daily scrubbing till it goes. Oh! Before i forget as well...there are products that can be used to help prevent algee growth as well aren't there? Lisa Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs <http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline> yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33541	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: What is this brown stuff?

Yes - and then there are things you can get to remove the phosphate and silicate from the water, which will remove two of the substances they need to grow. I've had two diatom blooms respond well to thorough tank cleaning and water changes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Lawless" <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:31 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is this brown stuff? Thanks Lenny and Dora, Good to know they are not a unwanted perminant fixture to my new tank. lol I'll just have to do daily scrubbing till it goes. Oh! Before i forget as well...there are products that can be used to help prevent algee growth as well aren't there? Lisa Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33542	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again

I don't mind the plant as long as it doesn't start to melt ;) It was fine until I added the flourish excel, and then they literally melted in a couple of days. I don't think the ones at the LFS are doing that good, thanks about the tip with the stems, I will check my plants a little better, although I don't think they'd like me sticking my hand in the tank breaking all the stems ;) LOL. I actually didn't mind them floating on the top of my tank, but I have so much water circulation with my magnum 350 that it's hard to keep floating plants in one spot ;) I turned the output on the filter so that it points forward in the tank instead of lengthwise, so it doesn't move the plants around so much. Amber jett07002 wrote: > > I, also, like Anacharis. The info Lenny and \\Steve// have rendered > is all good. I would just like to add, from my experience: 1) Check > plants out thoroughly at the LFS. If any stems (cutting plants, I'm > referring to) are browning at the cutt edges, they are already on > their way out. Don't buy them. The plants should be crisp. > "Accidentally" break a stem. If it doesn't snap, it's not fresh. > 2) If your tank is kept real warm it will not do well. Slowly let it > acclimate to the warmer water gradually before you put it in the > aquarium. 3) If you want to plant them in the gravel, don't dig them > in. If you break or squash the stems they are going to rot. I put a > plant weight very loosely around them individually, not as a bunch, > and just let them lay on the gravel. They will soon make roots and > take hold. At that stage, you can take the weights off. If you > weighed them down loosely, the weights will come off easily without > disturbing the plants. 4) The other option is to let them float > until they make roots, or permanently if you prefer. . > > This plant can make an aquarium very naturalized and the fish love the > cover when the plant grows to the top and starts to lay on the water > surface. > > Oh, and like Lenny, I don't fertilize mine. > > joe t > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Yep, that seems to be the problem.... I didn't know that.. but then I've > > never used any plant nutrients in my tanks other than what my water, > fish > > and critters provide. I'll have to remember this since I have > Anacharis in > > most of my tanks since it grows so well for me. I wonder why the > Excel does > > that? I thought Excel was like a liquid CO2 type product and I know > that > > Anacharis likes lots of CO2 which is why it grows up to the surface > to get > > CO2 out of the surface air. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:53 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > after reading about the plant on plantgeek.net it seems that the > flourish > > excel may have caused the melting, here's what it says: > > ****Special note**** This plant seems to be sensitive to Flourish > Excel, to > > the point it "melts" completely off if given enough. It is also > sensitive to > > bleach dips. > > > > Well now I know ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > That's Anacharis (aka Elodea). Next time, try letting it float for a > > > while so it gets plenty of light and then when you plant it, don't > > > bunch it up as the base of the stalks will rot. Just stick each stalk > > > in and then pile some gravel up around them and in between them to > > > hold them in place and they'll eventually root with little anchor > > > roots. They are low to moderate light plants although they do great > > > with lots of lighting also. I find they do best if left floating in > > > the tank for a while until they start to grow roots and sprout new > > > stalks... then plant it if you want... or leave it floating. It also > > > needs lots of nutrients (nitrogenous waste, phosphates, > > > etc.) since it's a fast growing plant in the right conditions so if > > > you keep your tank too clean, it will not do well. Let your nitrates > > > stay at least 10ppm. There are a couple of varieties so you want to > > > check out PlantGeek's a little closer to see which variety you have. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:13 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > I have a pic up under my group photos, the plant that fell apart was > > > this > > > one: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/1> > > > 880340 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 1880340> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 1880340 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 1880340> > 882/view?picmode= > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034> > > > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034> > 0882/view?picmode= > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034 > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > 188034> > > > > 0882/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > > > (unknown4 if the link breaks up somehow). > > > I initially had it planted all together the first week, then I took it > > > out of the plant weight and let it float at the top (which is what the > > > LFS suggested I do if it didn't look like it was getting enough > > > light), after that it was all downhill, there was bits of the plant > > > everywhere after that. > > > Also my tap water is ammonia free, so I'm not adding ammonia when > > > doing PWC's, I've been trying to get rid of it ;) I've only rinsed my > > > carbon media in tank water, I didn't remove any of it when I cleaned > > > out the filter. > > > And the plant has already been thrown away, hubby disposed of it for > > > me while I was cleaning the tank, I didn't think to save it for some > > > reason, as I figured it was too far gone and I hated the plant, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > A photo of the disintegrating plant(s) would help in identifying it. > > > > The Crypts Lenny mentions are notorious for "melting" when not under > > > > the right conditions for them. If you're sure they're not Crypts, > > > > note that many Aponogetons look similar to Crypts and they will ALL > > > > die back this time of year heading into December and January as they > > > > go dormant as part of their life cycle. They will then reappear with > > > > new growth from the bulb. > > > > > > > > You have mentioned your LFS lady said it was a "bunch" plant. If > > > > this is correct, it would look similar to the Foxtail you > > > > mentionerd, as that is also a "bunch" plant. Note that bunch plants > > > > (even including your Foxtail) should not be planted in a tight bunch > > > > as it comes from the LFS, but instead, should be separated and > > > > planted as individual stalks (stems) close to but not touching each > > > > other. When planted as a tight bunch, this prevents adequate water > > > > circulation around them and greatly diminishes the light to the > > > > tightly bunched stems, which can't penetrate between them. Other > > > > bunch plants might include Cabomba and Anacharis, but could also be > > > > Ambulia, Cardamine, Bacopa, Money Wort or Ludwigia to name a few > (we'd > > need to see them). > > > > > > > > While your white cloudiness in caused by a bacterial bloom, I doubt > > > > its being caused by this minimal plant matter that you keep removing > > > > (although decaying plant matter can cause this effect if there's > > > > enough). Too frequent filter cleanings, even though done with > > > > aquarium water, will deplete some of the nitrifying bacteria which > > > > is especially needed in times of bacterial blooms. The normal > > > > (recommended) filter maintenance regimen is to clean only half of > > > > your filter material at any one time to help preserve the beneficial > > > > bacteria. > > > > > > > > Noting you very frequent PWC's, its possible that you're FEEDING > > > > this bacterial bloom with every subsequent PWC, if your tap water > > > > contains any ammonia. Have you checked your tap water parameters? > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > They aren't crypts from all the plants I've looked at on > > > > plantgeek.net. > > > > > But I also didn't find one that looked just like it either. Even > > > > the > > > > > lady at the LFS said she didn't like it either, it falls apart if > > > > it > > > > > doesn't get enough light, and even with my light upgrades it > > > > > didn't > > > > seem > > > > > to get enough light in my tank, so it fell apart. She called it > > > > a "bunch > > > > > plant" but that's all I know about it, since they don't label any > > > > of > > > > > their plants for sale, and she only knows some of them (she > > > > > doesn't > > > > do > > > > > all the plant ordering, and unfortunately the owner orders random > > > > plants > > > > > that are hard to care for, she sticks to ordering easy to care for > > > > > plants that don't need a lot of light either). All I know is I'm > > > > not > > > > > getting any more of them and even the ones at the fish store > > > > > aren't doing that great in their plant tanks ;) It didn't help > > > > > that I have > > > > a > > > > > lot of current in my tank too and that plant didn't like a lot of > > > > > current, that's what helped it fall apart. > > > > > > > > > > I also pulled out my green foxtail (that's the common name), it > > > > > was mostly brown looking except at the tips and I'm tired of my > > > > > cloudy > > > > tank, > > > > > I want to get it back under control. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of plants were these? Crypts??? > > > > > > > http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jp > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jp> > > > > > > g> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> >> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> >> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg> > > > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg > <http://images.aquaria.net/plants/Cryptocoryne/p/PON/the-melt.jpg>> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are crypts, you could be having crypt melt. Read more > > > > about it. > > > > > > The plants could come back so it may not be necessary to trash > > > > the plants > > > > > > yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > >> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > > under > > > > > > Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:07 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > > > Well honestly I've done a bunch of water changes this week, and > > > > > > I didn't do any tests the last couple of days, I just today did > > > > > > another water change (2 of them within a couple hours). The tank > > > > > > is still cloudy. I've > > > > already > > > > > > tried > > > > > > to get out all of that plant that I can, some pieces are still > > > > here and > > > > > > there as it falls apart when you touch it. I didn't test the > > > > water the > > > > > > last > > > > > > couple of days because I was working longer days and I was too > > > > tired to > > > > > > care, but the tank didn't get cloudy again until today either. > > > > > > I just tested my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, ammonia was at .25 > > > > and > > > > > > nitrates were 0, nitrites 0. So I'm guessing either my frequent > > > > water > > > > > > changes brought my nitrates back down, or I'm still in a cycle. > > > > > > I > > > > removed > > > > > > more of the dead plant a few minutes ago, and also took out > > > > another plant > > > > > > that was turning brown more than green and I figured it was > > > > > > dying > > > > as well. > > > > > > The rest of the plants seem okay, and if that was the cause then > > > > things > > > > > > should get better soon with the PWC's and filter cleaning. I'm > > > > going to do > > > > > > another filter cleaning in a few days just to make sure it's not > > > > > > collecting too much debris. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Decaying plants also put out ammonia and could be the cause of > > > > your > > > > > > > bacteria bloom. Get it out of your tank. What are the ammonia, > > > > > > > nitrite, nitrate readings? Is the tank staying fully cycled... > > > > meaning > > > > > > > 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and a slowly climbing nitrate > > > > reading? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > >> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:31 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, tank is cloudy again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I posted earlier this week I already did a really good > > > > cleaning on > > > > > > > the filter without replacing the carbon (which is only 2 > > > > > > > months > > > > old). > > > > > > > I've also done many PWC's this week, as well as a 30% change > > > > earlier > > > > > > > today, but the tank is still cloudy. I lost another cory today > > > > as well > > > > > > > and I already pulled him out. Nothing else seems to be > > > > > > > bothered > > > > by it, > > > > > > > they're all eating and swimming around happy like usual. I had > > > > a plant > > > > > > > that was turning to mush and I have been pulling bits of it > > > > > > > out > > > > of my > > > > > > > tank all day, is it possible that this plant could be causing > > > > the > > > > > > > cloudiness? It's a white cloudiness to the tank. > > > > > > > I'm going to do another PWC and see if that helps the > > > > cloudiness, the > > > > > > > filter shouldn't be that dirty it's only been a couple of days > > > > since I > > > > > > > cleaned it really well (in tank water). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081122-0, 11/22/2008 > > Tested on: 11/23/2008 3:27:58 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33543	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: New tank (125 gallon)

So while the tank is outside soaking, I've been getting things set up inside. The hook is custom made, but has 4 double bulb CFL lights in it, of course I will have to change the bulbs for plants as it's set up for salt water right now. Hopefully my LFS can get the right bulbs in, ordering them could be a pain considering how bad the light fixture situation went recently. But it should have plenty of light for some plants once I get the right bulbs in it. Even if I just get the 65 watt bulbs, that would be 4x65 watts of lighting, which is 2 watts per gallon if my calculations were right ;) I could always get the higher wattage bulbs too, if it has the right connections on the fixture. Didn't bulb a bulb out to see if it's square pin or straight pin bulbs. Will have to check that. Tonight I'm going to try to scrub out the tank if I get off of work early enough and still have enough daylight left. The sun goes down at 4pm here in Alaska where I'm at (yes we still get sun in the winter here, it's far north that doesn't, hehe). I also got the adapter hooked up to my faucet for the python gravel washer, can't wait to give it a try ;) LOL. I'm so tired of lugging around 5 gallon buckets, I'm sure someone out there understands how I feel ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33544	From: dtrc rc	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: New tank (125 gallon)

yes i do filling a tank up a bucket at a time is so annoying, it takes the joy out of caring for the fish. --- On Mon, 11/24/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank (125 gallon) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:54 PM So while the tank is outside soaking, I've been getting things set up inside. The hook is custom made, but has 4 double bulb CFL lights in it, of course I will have to change the bulbs for plants as it's set up for salt water right now. Hopefully my LFS can get the right bulbs in, ordering them could be a pain considering how bad the light fixture situation went recently. But it should have plenty of light for some plants once I get the right bulbs in it. Even if I just get the 65 watt bulbs, that would be 4x65 watts of lighting, which is 2 watts per gallon if my calculations were right ;) I could always get the higher wattage bulbs too, if it has the right connections on the fixture. Didn't bulb a bulb out to see if it's square pin or straight pin bulbs. Will have to check that. Tonight I'm going to try to scrub out the tank if I get off of work early enough and still have enough daylight left. The sun goes down at 4pm here in Alaska where I'm at (yes we still get sun in the winter here, it's far north that doesn't, hehe). I also got the adapter hooked up to my faucet for the python gravel washer, can't wait to give it a try ;) LOL. I'm so tired of lugging around 5 gallon buckets, I'm sure someone out there understands how I feel ;) Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33545	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

if that's the case then you're saying no one in louisiana should own angels, and when it comes to chemistry, it's not playing god, chemistry is one sience humans have owned for a long time, we add chlorine to the water to make it safe for us just to have to remove it to put in our fish tanks, we have to fool wish water chemistry every time we change water or test it --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Angels are a magnificent fish. However, if you do not have the water > parameters to keep them, you really cannot keep them. Playing god with > you water will only humble you. Your Seachem failed to reduce the > buffering capacity of your water, which would reduce the pH. The problem > with reducing the buffer is twofold. First, you will need to do this > constantly, and watch it like a hawk. Second, you are likely to break > the buffer completely, which will lead to a sudden reduction of the pH > usually by far too much and too quickly to be helpful to any fish in the > tank. > > Your best bet is to look for fish that will live happily in the water > that you already have. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem > > my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have now, but > i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to neutral, i > have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't worked, > and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and that > hasn't worked > > the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has petco > pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and and > anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped around > it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would be > keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could suggest to > help sove my problem i would appreciate it >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?

Betta's should be kept in tropical temps, around 78F-80F. Get him at least a 2.5G.. preferably a 5G to 10G with a heater. A 2.5G would need a 25 watt heater. A 5G would need 50 watts of heat (or 2 x 25W) if your home temps are in the 60's at night. A 10G would need 100 watts of heat (or 2 x 50W). Normally, this much heat isn't necessary for homes kept in the 70's but yours, being much colder, would need the double heater wattage. He will not do well in a bowl... and even worse in a bowl with such cold temperatures. Betta's should live 7-10 years but most do not make it that long due to being kept in the undersized bowls for so much of their lives. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ? Hi again! In all my distress over my platys with ich, I almost forgot to introduce the male betta which joined my household less than 24 hours ago. He is in an unheated bowl, but the info sheet from the petstore recommends water temp from mid-60's through 70's F. The ambient temperature in my home isn't anywhere near that high, and unheated water will stay around 60-62 F this time of year. We actually left the heat on in the house for him today - but is it necessary? Do bettas prefer warmer water, or would he be ok in an unheated tank? How do you heat a betta bowl? If he needs a submersible heater, maybe I should move him to a rectangular tank. Once again, I'm open to (knowledgable) suggestions! Thanks in advance. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/24/2008 4:48:37 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: New Member - could use some help with ich and a new tank

You need more heat... as I explained in the Betta thread since you home gets so cold. I'm not familiar with your med that you are using but if it advises to raise the temp higher, then you will need more heat. Normally, the heat/salt treatment requires raising the temp to 86F as this speeds up the life cycle of the Ich parasite and then the meds can kill them during their exposed part of their life cycle. Here's a detailed article on treating Ich for more info... and about other parasites as well. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member - could use some help with ich and a new tank Hi all! I'm delighted to join this group! My family recently started a new 8- gallon biocube with two female platys. We are trying to follow all the instructions for avoiding new-tank trouble, but the fish came down with ich after only about two days. After three days of treatment, one of the fish appeared to be on the mend, but after two more days of treatment, she shows more signs of infection. Doesn't ich usually go away more rapidly, if treated appropriately? The other fish has been sitting on the bottom most of the time, and hardly rouses herself for food. The other, more vigorous one, seems to get everything. Here's what we've been doing to help these poor fish - please tell me if you have suggestions: 1. increased temp to 80 F (that's as high as our heater seems to go) 2. added a pinch of aquarium salt and melafix 3. daily treatment with Ich Clear tablets following package instructions, including 25% water change prior to each treatment 4. The usual new-tank precautions, including avoiding over-feeding and regular water checks. Any ideas? Thanks! _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/24/2008 4:53:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33548	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: New tank (125 gallon)

Yes, even my hubby said he hates it that I'm always messing with the fishtanks when he comes home from work and he doesn't get any attention, LOL. Right now I'm sitting here typing an email while the tank outside is filling up the rest of the way with the python cleaner ;) I tried scrubbing some of the algae off already and got nowhere, LOL. That salt water algae sticks a lot better than the green freshwater algae does, or perhaps the problem is that the top half of the tank was dry with algae on it for 3 weeks ;) It has crusted itself on, that's for sure. I'm going to try filling it up more to see if that will help get the algae off... Does anyone have any better suggestions than bleach? I'm wondering if I need to go out there with a chisel, LOL ;) Amber dtrc rc wrote: > > yes i do filling a tank up a bucket at a time is so annoying, it takes > the joy out of caring for the fish. > > --- On Mon, 11/24/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank (125 gallon) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:54 PM > > So while the tank is outside soaking, I've been getting things set up > inside. The hook is custom made, but has 4 double bulb CFL lights in it, > of course I will have to change the bulbs for plants as it's set up for > salt water right now. Hopefully my LFS can get the right bulbs in, > ordering them could be a pain considering how bad the light fixture > situation went recently. But it should have plenty of light for some > plants once I get the right bulbs in it. Even if I just get the 65 watt > bulbs, that would be 4x65 watts of lighting, which is 2 watts per gallon > if my calculations were right ;) I could always get the higher wattage > bulbs too, if it has the right connections on the fixture. Didn't bulb a > bulb out to see if it's square pin or straight pin bulbs. Will have to > check that. > Tonight I'm going to try to scrub out the tank if I get off of work > early enough and still have enough daylight left. The sun goes down at > 4pm here in Alaska where I'm at (yes we still get sun in the winter > here, it's far north that doesn't, hehe). > I also got the adapter hooked up to my faucet for the python gravel > washer, can't wait to give it a try ;) LOL. I'm so tired of lugging > around 5 gallon buckets, I'm sure someone out there understands how I > feel ;) > > Amber > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33549	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: New tank (125 gallon)

Let it soak, let the water do some of the work for you. Does anyone have any better suggestions than bleach? I'm wondering if I need to go out there with a chisel, LOL ;) -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 4:20 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New tank (125 gallon) Yes, even my hubby said he hates it that I'm always messing with the fishtanks when he comes home from work and he doesn't get any attention, LOL. Right now I'm sitting here typing an email while the tank outside is filling up the rest of the way with the python cleaner ;) I tried scrubbing some of the algae off already and got nowhere, LOL. That salt water algae sticks a lot better than the green freshwater algae does, or perhaps the problem is that the top half of the tank was dry with algae on it for 3 weeks ;) It has crusted itself on, that's for sure. I'm going to try filling it up more to see if that will help get the algae off... Does anyone have any better suggestions than bleach? I'm wondering if I need to go out there with a chisel, LOL ;) Amber dtrc rc wrote: > > yes i do filling a tank up a bucket at a time is so annoying, it takes > the joy out of caring for the fish. > > --- On Mon, 11/24/08, Amb er Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank (125 gallon) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:54 PM > > So while the tank is outside soaking, I've been getting things set up > inside. The hook is custom made, but has 4 double bulb CFL lights in it, > of course I will have to change the bulbs for plants as it's set up for > salt water right now. Hopefully my LFS can get the right bulbs in, > ordering them could be a pain considering how bad the light fixture > situation went recently. But it should have plenty of light for some > plants once I get the right bulbs in it. Even if I just get the 65 watt > bulbs, that would be 4x65 watts of lighting, which is 2 watts per gallon > if my calculations were right ;) I could always get the higher wattage > bulbs too, if it has the right connections on the fixture. Didn't bulb a > bulb out to see if it's square pin or straight pin bulbs. Will have to > check that. > Tonight I'm going to try to scrub out the tank if I get off of work > early enough and still have enough daylight left. The sun goes down at > 4pm here in Alaska where I'm at (yes we still get sun in the winter > here, it's far north that doesn't, hehe). > I also got the adapter hooked up to my faucet for the python gravel > washer, can't wait to give it a try ;) LOL. I'm so tired of lugging > around 5 gallon buckets, I'm sure someone out there understands how I > feel ;) > > Amber > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯` ..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. MARKETPLACE From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity 16 New Members 3 New Photos Visit Your Group John McEnroe on Yahoo! Groups Join him for the 10 Day Challenge. Yahoo! Groups Going Green Zone Find Green groups. Find Green resources. Featured Y! Groups and category pages. There is something for everyone. . __,_._,__ _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33550	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

Adding chemicals to water for human consumption it one thing, what you propose is entirely another. What the water company does only needs to last the trip from source to tap, whether it is adding a disinfectant (chlorine) and/or adding chemicals to raise pH to lengthen the life of their pipes. Most fish will survive in water that has a pH out of their natural range. For fish to thrive, you would need to approximate the natural range of water parameters for the species. Once you start lowering pH, you will always need to lower it to maintain it, and worry that the buffer will be broken and that the pH will drop precipitously. On the other hand, as another discussion here last week covered, raising pH can be just as dangerous to the fish as lowering it, but with different consequences if the GH and KH are not kept in line with each other, as well as the pH. As has been said here over and over, it is best not to mess with your water's chemistry. Pick the fish you would like to keep based on your water chemistry or move to an area that has the water to keep the fish you feel you must. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH problem if that's the case then you're saying no one in louisiana should own angels, and when it comes to chemistry, it's not playing god, chemistry is one sience humans have owned for a long time, we add chlorine to the water to make it safe for us just to have to remove it to put in our fish tanks, we have to fool wish water chemistry every time we change water or test it --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Angels are a magnificent fish. However, if you do not have the water > parameters to keep them, you really cannot keep them. Playing god with > you water will only humble you. Your Seachem failed to reduce the > buffering capacity of your water, which would reduce the pH. The problem > with reducing the buffer is twofold. First, you will need to do this > constantly, and watch it like a hawk. Second, you are likely to break > the buffer completely, which will lead to a sudden reduction of the pH > usually by far too much and too quickly to be helpful to any fish in the > tank. > > Your best bet is to look for fish that will live happily in the water > that you already have. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem > > my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have now, but > i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to neutral, i > have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't worked, > and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and that > hasn't worked > > the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has petco > pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and and > anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped around > it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would be > keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could suggest to > help sove my problem i would appreciate it >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33551	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: New tank (125 gallon)

If you haven't already tried it, try some plain white vinegar... or if you don't have that in your kitchen already, if you go to the store, get the pickling vinegar which is even stronger as an acid. It should break down the hard water calcifications and build-up from a saltwater tank. Or if you have some of that natural citric cleaner stuff... although I don't like using cleaning products since that means you have to rinse, rinse, rinse... where vinegar will be a rinse once and you're good to go. Put the vinegar in a spray bottle.. spray down the tank... go smooch hubby for a little while.. then go wipe off all the build-up.... then go smooch hubby some more. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New tank (125 gallon) Yes, even my hubby said he hates it that I'm always messing with the fishtanks when he comes home from work and he doesn't get any attention, LOL. Right now I'm sitting here typing an email while the tank outside is filling up the rest of the way with the python cleaner ;) I tried scrubbing some of the algae off already and got nowhere, LOL. That salt water algae sticks a lot better than the green freshwater algae does, or perhaps the problem is that the top half of the tank was dry with algae on it for 3 weeks ;) It has crusted itself on, that's for sure. I'm going to try filling it up more to see if that will help get the algae off... Does anyone have any better suggestions than bleach? I'm wondering if I need to go out there with a chisel, LOL ;) Amber dtrc rc wrote: > > yes i do filling a tank up a bucket at a time is so annoying, it takes > the joy out of caring for the fish. > > --- On Mon, 11/24/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank (125 gallon) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:54 PM > > So while the tank is outside soaking, I've been getting things set up > inside. The hook is custom made, but has 4 double bulb CFL lights in > it, of course I will have to change the bulbs for plants as it's set > up for salt water right now. Hopefully my LFS can get the right bulbs > in, ordering them could be a pain considering how bad the light > fixture situation went recently. But it should have plenty of light > for some plants once I get the right bulbs in it. Even if I just get > the 65 watt bulbs, that would be 4x65 watts of lighting, which is 2 > watts per gallon if my calculations were right ;) I could always get > the higher wattage bulbs too, if it has the right connections on the > fixture. Didn't bulb a bulb out to see if it's square pin or straight > pin bulbs. Will have to check that. > Tonight I'm going to try to scrub out the tank if I get off of work > early enough and still have enough daylight left. The sun goes down at > 4pm here in Alaska where I'm at (yes we still get sun in the winter > here, it's far north that doesn't, hehe). > I also got the adapter hooked up to my faucet for the python gravel > washer, can't wait to give it a try ;) LOL. I'm so tired of lugging > around 5 gallon buckets, I'm sure someone out there understands how I > feel ;) > > Amber > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/24/2008 6:54:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/24/2008 8:26:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33552	From: bill1433	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: The Truth About Ph Adjustments by a Beginner for Beginner’s

Yes, you can adjust the Ph of any water anywhere! And when you do you will most probably become aggravated, disgusted, worried and in general be angry at the whole world.  One thing you won’t be is happy, contended and relaxed watching your new friends. Was it all worth it?  Let’s let you be the judge as you read my story.    Your are crazy about a certain fish, you buy it, the fish dies!  Why?  You fed it good food, gave it good water and timely water changes and maintained a correct temperature.  Why did  this fish whither away and die in such a short time?  Ah, I have it!  You bought bad fish, of course, that must be the reason.  Back out you go for more of the same fish (did you happen to notice they were all there, just like before, the same fish in the same tank, and they are still healthy)?  You bring these new fish home and they die in the same time frame just as before!  Now what’s wrong here?  Maybe your water is not the same as the LPS?  What could be different?  Maybe it’s that Ph stuff everyone keeps talking about.   Water parameters are given for each type and specie of fish.  There’s a reason for that.  Most people buy tropical fish to watch and enjoy.  The fish being healthy and colorful are the rewards of their investment.  Many times there is a bonus in the fish giving back babies.  This only occurs if these animals are kept in tip-top shape.  They are not in tip-top shape if they’re swimming in the wrong type of water.   Give the fish a break!  Give yourself a break!  Leave the water alone.  Establish a solid home water baseline.  Once known, go out and buy fish that will match that baseline and enjoy yourself.  The fish will be happier and so will you.   I’ve just spent an exhausting, aggravating, and frustrating 5 weeks in learning the hard way the story I have just related.  Some people that I will now call “good friends” on this list  tried to stop me.  They didn’t want me to jump off the cliff.  They tried every-which-way to convince me.  NO WAY!!!!   I jumped and paid for the trip all the way to the bottom!    You can adjust Ph and here’s how:   To raise you will need baking soda, and crushed coral to act as a buffer. A very good test kit with a lot of testing re-fills, because you’ll need them. Last, but the most important, you will need a gram scale of laboratory quality and a notebook.  That’s it, your ready to adjust the ph as high as you would like! Oh!  Just a minute!  Ah, but you don’t have a minute!  Your busy checking the tanks Ph, next let’s check the Ph of that water you just did your partial water change with.  Now get your power filter manual out and find out exactly how long it will take it to turn that aquarium water a couple of times,  Oop’s, we better take an Ph reading to insure that all is well.  Oh, it isn’t?  Too much soda?  GH and KH are out of line and rising.  Quick!  No time to waste!  Let’s do another PWC to bring everything back down.  Now don’t forget to check those Water Parameters again.   Now didn’t I tell you that you could change Ph.  Wasn’t it fun?  Not to me, I am ashamed to tell you this story and the bigger shame is that it’s all true. I really did all of this but if I can save one of you from NOT doing it then it was worth my telling you.  The only good side of all this nonsense?  One!  All of my poor fish lived through this kayos!  Their doing better in water that match’s their parameters now-------------------------------my own!   Bill   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33553	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units?

I'm just bumping this up in hopes of getting a response. Thanks. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > I have a Whisper Bio-bag, which I bought by mistake from Petco months > ago, thinking it was a generic cartridge. Our three aquariums have > Cascade filters. So, can I use the Whisper Bio-bags in my Cascade > filter units? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33554	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units?

Shirley, If they are similar sized and they'll fit in the slots, then they should work. You don't give model numbers or anything so it's hard to tell but I've seen Whisper cartridges fit another model that I use to have but can't recall the name. I've seen generic or off-brand cartridges that fit various other models also. Once a patent runs out on a particular model, then other companies can jump on the band-wagon. I did do a little Googling and see that Penn-Plax makes the Cascade power filter HOB but I didn't see anything in . While on this topic, it's not always a good idea to change out your filter cartridges... even though the manufacturers might say so. Your primary biofiltration (nitrifying bacteria) colonies live in your filter floss pads, sponges, etc. so if you only have one filter cartridge and you trash it, you could put your tank into a mini-cycle which could result in ammonia/nitrite spikes until the tank re-cycles. Read my blog article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more details. If you do like throwing them away, rather than cleaning/reusing them, then you should run two filter cartridges and trash the one in the back.. that gets the dirtiest... then move the front one to the back and add a new one in the front. This will at least keep some of your nitrifying bacteria in your filter system so your mini-cycle might not be as bad on the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 8:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units? I'm just bumping this up in hopes of getting a response. Thanks. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > I have a Whisper Bio-bag, which I bought by mistake from Petco months > ago, thinking it was a generic cartridge. Our three aquariums have > Cascade filters. So, can I use the Whisper Bio-bags in my Cascade > filter units? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/24/2008 9:24:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33555	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/24/2008
Subject: Re: Is natural light enough?

There are fluorescent fixtures available for kitchens to mount under cabinets, etc. Unless you're stuffing your tank into this TV cabinet with a shoehorn, you should be able to mount one of these units to the inside top of the TV cabinet (with 2 screws) -- they are only 1 - 1/2" thick (high). You'd need to remove the tank first to be able to work in the cabinet freely, then replace the tank. As this fixture does not rest on the tank, it shouldn't interfere with your lifting the tank lid. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > I think a lamp would be the better option. > I still need access to the tank's lids > > Lisa > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > If... and that's a big "If"... any low-light, easy to grow plants > could make > > it, they would not need CO2 or added plant food. CO2 and added > nutrients > > are mostly needed for fast growing and harder to grow plants in > high tech > > tanks with good lighting. Check the link for Very Easy plants on my > > "Planted Tank" blog and you could try a couple of them to see how > they do. > > > > Do you have at least 2" between the top of the tank and the > enclosure? A > > small fluorescent light fixture only sticks up a couple of > inches. If that > > isn't an option, then a lamp.. like a brass bankers lamp... with > one of the > > screw-in coiled fluorescent bulbs, directed at the tank would help > also. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lisa > > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Is natural light enough? > > > > My tank faces a window in my bedroom, so it recieves bright > indirect light. > > (between morning and mid-day) The cavity (old tv unit) where the > tank now > > sits has minimal space between the tanks glass lid and the top of > the > > cavity. > > Could live plants survive that require low light, if sufficiant > CO2's and > > plant food are added? > > > > thanks > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081123-0, 11/23/2008 > > Tested on: 11/24/2008 12:45:17 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33556	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr

Hank, I thought that's what you meant by "tiered;" -- stepped. With the wooden racks I built 40 - 45 years ago, I used 1" x 3"s (with 2" x 4" legs) for the lighter tanks -- 2 tiers of 20L's and a tier of 15's. As I start all my rack about 14" or 15" off the floor, and have about 4" of space between tiers plus the 3" of wood, the top tier is just about eye level. With heavier tanks, like 30 Gallons, I used 2" x 4"s, and with still heavier tanks I used 2" x 6" -- these have two tiers of three 50 Gallon tanks each, so we're talking about 415 #'s of water per tank or 2490 #'s -- well over a ton of water on these racks. The steel (angle iron) racks built later on save a lot of space between tiers as the steel is only 1 1/2" (it makes a big difference). Starting them about 9" off the floor, I have two tiers of 50 gallon tanks and one tier of 40 gallon (breeder) tanks, all stepped out 6". It really makes a hugh difference in opening up that area to work in. I don't bother stepping the larger tank racks out, as because of these tank's height (75 to 125 gallons), I'm only able to have two tiers so I just increased the working space between the two tiers. To make use of the space over the 2-tier wood 50 gallon tank racks, I've suspended a few racks from the ceiling to hold rows of 26-H gallon breeding tanks. Every bit of space helps! You never have enough tank space <grin>. Also, for that same reason, I have rows of 10's and 15's end-wise under the racks started 14" or 15" off the floor (for cooler water fish -- killies, etc.). Using all the space from floor to ceiling, I have two fans (one in each of the opposite corners) continually forcing the warmer air downwards to get a more uniform temperature throughout. Don't know how I got into writing all this, the main point is that stepping the tiers out not only allows for saving space in the total height of the racks (you can reach the top row more easily), but greatly increases the working space between tiers. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@...> wrote: > > > Ray/Jim: > My racks were stepped with three tiers.One rack was 20Ls and > the other 2 were 10G with 5Gs on top.By using the step principal and > making it modual you can get away with lighter wood rather than using > 2x4s.Mine were made out of firring strips and were rock solid when > full.There was 3in.between top of tank and above support rail. There > was around 6in. of working space that jutted out from the tanks > above. I wish I had a picture of them (a lot of people could not > beleive that they would hold all those tanks) > > . Regards Hank > > my racks are similar. You want to have at least 6" working space > > between the top of your tanks and the rail of the next tier higher > > (preferably more, if possible). As you mentioned, the rows of tank > > sizes are best graduated with the larger ones on the bottom-most row > > (s) and the smaller tanks on the top rows. This aids in being able > > to see what's going on in all tanks, and of course helps in > > stabilizing the whole rack -- having most of the weight near the > > bottom. > > > > Depending on the sizes of one's tanks and one's ceiling height, it > > may not be possible to have more than one or two levels of larger > > tanks if you wanted them. By stepping them, you can open up your > > working space above your tanks immensely if you can't increase this > > working space otherwise, and you only need to step them out 6" to > > give you much more room for netting fish and for ease of getting > your > > arm in the tanks for cleaning if necessary. In this way, you can > > have several levels of large tanks without needing an extension > > ladder to reach the top level (LOL). Stepping them also helps in > > stabilizing the racks especially when one uses multiple levels of > > larger tanks. > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > Steve: > > > when I was in Jersey my setup was tiered,worked great > lowest > > > tanks were at waist level,highest at eye level.My setup here in > > > fla.is 1/10 the size of the one I had before but it is still tier > > > profile. > > > Hank > > > ===================================== > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > I've never seen a fishroom with a stepped construction as you > > wish > > > to > > > > build. All are just built straight up, and nearly floor level > > tanks > > > are > > > > generally used for fish that like cooler conditions than a tank > > > higher > > > > up on the stand. Smaller tanks are normally placed on the top > > tiers > > > and > > > > larger tanks on the lower tiers. > > > > > > > > Take some time to plan out your setup in your fish room, and > try > > to > > > > leave enough room for expansion. Be sure to insulate the > basement > > > walls > > > > and ceiling with Styrofoam within the area that will be used as > a > > > fish > > > > room, and you plan for enough electrical outlets placed at > > > convenient > > > > locations. Also pay attention to ceiling lighting fixtures as > > well > > > as > > > > leaving enough room to supply addition lighting to the tanks on > > an > > > as > > > > needed basis. Plan to construct a wall between your fishroom > and > > the > > > > rest of the basement. Creating a vapor barrier is also a must > do > > > item > > > > that should be included in your plans. With the insulation and > > > walling > > > > in of the area, you can save quite a bit on heating costs for > the > > > > fishroom as the tanks will add heat to the air, and the > > insulation > > > will > > > > keep it in, rather than spreading it through the house. > > > > > > > > Don't forget water drains so that you have a place to drain the > > > water > > > > from water changes and a place for spilt water to go (and water > > > will be > > > > spilled). > > > > > > > > Just some stuff off the top of my head. A little planning will > go > > a > > > long > > > > way for a nice fishroom. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33557	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: New tank (125 gallon)

The fact that this algae has been allowed to dry, crusting itself on the glass is the main reason why its now hard to get off. Bleach, which is mainly used as a disinfectant, or any other such product will not help that problem as it needs to be re-hydrated (soaked) to soften it up to near the state it was in before it dried hard onto the glass. I'm sure after you fill the tank the rest of the way, and allow it to soak, that it should be at least somewhat easier to get off. Can I assume you're using a razor-blade type of holder/scraper to tackle this problem? If, on the other hand, along with this algae it is also encrusted with dried mineral (calcium, etc.) deposits, a mild acid will work (and be necessary) in helping dissolve and remove these deposits, allow it to soak first before attempting to scrape it. White vinegar, actually a solution of acetic acid, works wonders towards this end. For more stubbord deposits, use CLR Cleaner (contains a solution of gluconic and citric acids), but you'll need to thoroughly rinse the tank out afterwards. You can also try lemon or lime juice. For constant contact of these products, for soaking, either lay the tank over on its side (one side at a time) and pour any of these products on to the areas or soak some paper towels to apply to the areas. If afterwards, some scrubbing is required, add some salt onto the deposits. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Yes, even my hubby said he hates it that I'm always messing with the > fishtanks when he comes home from work and he doesn't get any attention, > LOL. Right now I'm sitting here typing an email while the tank outside > is filling up the rest of the way with the python cleaner ;) > I tried scrubbing some of the algae off already and got nowhere, LOL. > That salt water algae sticks a lot better than the green freshwater > algae does, or perhaps the problem is that the top half of the tank was > dry with algae on it for 3 weeks ;) It has crusted itself on, that's for > sure. I'm going to try filling it up more to see if that will help get > the algae off... Does anyone have any better suggestions than bleach? > I'm wondering if I need to go out there with a chisel, LOL ;) > > Amber > > dtrc rc wrote: > > > > yes i do filling a tank up a bucket at a time is so annoying, it takes > > the joy out of caring for the fish. > > > > --- On Mon, 11/24/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank (125 gallon) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:54 PM > > > > So while the tank is outside soaking, I've been getting things set up > > inside. The hook is custom made, but has 4 double bulb CFL lights in it, > > of course I will have to change the bulbs for plants as it's set up for > > salt water right now. Hopefully my LFS can get the right bulbs in, > > ordering them could be a pain considering how bad the light fixture > > situation went recently. But it should have plenty of light for some > > plants once I get the right bulbs in it. Even if I just get the 65 watt > > bulbs, that would be 4x65 watts of lighting, which is 2 watts per gallon > > if my calculations were right ;) I could always get the higher wattage > > bulbs too, if it has the right connections on the fixture. Didn't bulb a > > bulb out to see if it's square pin or straight pin bulbs. Will have to > > check that. > > Tonight I'm going to try to scrub out the tank if I get off of work > > early enough and still have enough daylight left. The sun goes down at > > 4pm here in Alaska where I'm at (yes we still get sun in the winter > > here, it's far north that doesn't, hehe). > > I also got the adapter hooked up to my faucet for the python gravel > > washer, can't wait to give it a try ;) LOL. I'm so tired of lugging > > around 5 gallon buckets, I'm sure someone out there understands how I > > feel ;) > > > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33558	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

Hello Cortland, Please know that \\Steve// is not saying "no one in Louisiana should own angels." At least, I haven't seen him specify this anywhere. What he is saying, and what we ALL will advise you, is -- its best not to mess with your pH. We are not maintaining fish so that we can play with chemistry -- fish will not tolerate wide changes in the chemistry make up of their water, and by messing with it, you are inviting changes in it -- especially if you don't understand it. Fish do BEST without the addition of chemicals to their water, i.e., you should NEVER add chemicals to your aquarium if you don't have to (and unless its a dire emergency, you don't have to). Products such as SeaChem's neutral regulator work ONLY in association with one's particular water conditions, and those water conditions are different with each individual hobbyist's water -- meaning that the product MAY work if it doesn't need to drastically change one's water but will only serve to unsuccessfully combat one's water conditions if those conditions are more extreme -- such as yours are! Except for distilled (and rain/snow) water, most ALL other water has a buffering capacity (KH, temporary hardness). This is what products such as SeaChem's N. R. needs to counteract when attempting to change the pH of the water. The more this buffering capacity is reduced, the greater the propensity for it be broken, causing a crash in pH which will be detrimental to you fish. If by chance you did successfully reduce the pH by counteracting your buffering capacity -- how would you maintain it at that same pH when doing needed weekly partial water changes. You water would be bouncing back to a higher pH. You'd have to find the exact amount of SeaChem N. R. to add to the exact amount of water being changed at any one time. But as this isn't working for you anyway, its a moot point. Water chemistry, when it comes to the safety of the fish, is not that easy. Its always best to be satified with the water you have, and to the maintain fish which will do well in your water as is. Its easier on the fish and its easier on you. Now, as for these Angelfish you want to add, why on earth would you want to get your water to neutral??? Your present pH of 7.6 is far from being too high. Be advised that Angels will do perfectly well at this pH, even up to pH 8.6. Many Angelfish breeders breed their fish at pH 7.4 and raise the fry at pH 7.6 as this aids in their bone structure. If you're still hung up on your pH, first test your tap water (if its the same pH as your tank water, leave it alone). If your tap water's pH is lower, which I half-expect (could be wrong of course, but test it), look to your Pebble Beach Gravel -- AND REMOVE IT. Depending upon where its "quarried," this often is high in calcium carbonates! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > if that's the case then you're saying no one in louisiana should own > angels, and when it comes to chemistry, it's not playing god, > chemistry is one science humans have owned for a long time, we add > chlorine to the water to make it safe for us just to have to remove > it to put in our fish tanks, we have to fool wish water chemistry > every time we change water or test it > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Angels are a magnificent fish. However, if you do not have the > water > > parameters to keep them, you really cannot keep them. Playing god > with > > you water will only humble you. Your Seachem failed to reduce the > > buffering capacity of your water, which would reduce the pH. The > problem > > with reducing the buffer is twofold. First, you will need to do > this > > constantly, and watch it like a hawk. Second, you are likely to > break > > the buffer completely, which will lead to a sudden reduction of > the pH > > usually by far too much and too quickly to be helpful to any fish > in the > > tank. > > > > Your best bet is to look for fish that will live happily in the > water > > that you already have. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem > > > > my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have now, > but > > i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to neutral, i > > have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't > worked, > > and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and that > > hasn't worked > > > > the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has petco > > pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and and > > anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped > around > > it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would be > > keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could suggest > to > > help sove my problem i would appreciate it > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33559	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Fish Lovers TV

The National Geographic Documentary Lake Tanganyika - Jewel of the Rift is going to air this Friday November 28th at 10am (eastern time I am assuming) according to this webpage: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/jewel-of-the-rift-0480/Overvie w [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33560	From: hank voss	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hank, I thought that's what you meant by "tiered;" -- stepped. With > the wooden racks I built 40 - 45 years ago, I used 1" x 3"s (with 2" > x 4" legs) for the lighter tanks -- 2 tiers of 20L's and a tier of > 15's. As I start all my rack about 14" or 15" off the floor, and > have about 4" of space between tiers plus the 3" of wood, the top > tier is just about eye level. With heavier tanks, like 30 Gallons, I > used 2" x 4"s, and with still heavier tanks I used 2" x 6" -- these > have two tiers of three 50 Gallon tanks each, so we're talking about > 415 #'s of water per tank or 2490 #'s -- well over a ton of water on > these racks. > > The steel (angle iron) racks built later on save a lot of space > between tiers as the steel is only 1 1/2" (it makes a big > difference). Starting them about 9" off the floor, I have two tiers > of 50 gallon tanks and one tier of 40 gallon (breeder) tanks, all > stepped out 6". It really makes a hugh difference in opening up that > area to work in. I don't bother stepping the larger tank racks out, > as because of these tank's height (75 to 125 gallons), I'm only able > to have two tiers so I just increased the working space between the > two tiers. > > To make use of the space over the 2-tier wood 50 gallon tank racks, > I've suspended a few racks from the ceiling to hold rows of 26-H > gallon breeding tanks. Every bit of space helps! You never have > enough tank space <grin>. Also, for that same reason, I have rows of > 10's and 15's end-wise under the racks started 14" or 15" off the > floor (for cooler water fish -- killies, etc.). Using all the space > from floor to ceiling, I have two fans (one in each of the opposite > corners) continually forcing the warmer air downwards to get a more > uniform temperature throughout. Don't know how I got into writing > all this, the main point is that stepping the tiers out not only > allows for saving space in the total height of the racks (you can > reach the top row more easily), but greatly increases the working > space between tiers. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray/Jim: > > My racks were stepped with three tiers.One rack was 20Ls > and > > the other 2 were 10G with 5Gs on top.By using the step principal > and > > making it modual you can get away with lighter wood rather than > using > > 2x4s.Mine were made out of firring strips and were rock solid when > > full.There was 3in.between top of tank and above support rail. > There > > was around 6in. of working space that jutted out from the tanks > > above. I wish I had a picture of them (a lot of people could not > > beleive that they would hold all those tanks) > > > > . Regards Hank > > > my racks are similar. You want to have at least 6" working space > > > between the top of your tanks and the rail of the next tier > higher > > > (preferably more, if possible). As you mentioned, the rows of > tank > > > sizes are best graduated with the larger ones on the bottom- most > row > > > (s) and the smaller tanks on the top rows. This aids in being > able > > > to see what's going on in all tanks, and of course helps in > > > stabilizing the whole rack -- having most of the weight near the > > > bottom. > > > > > > Depending on the sizes of one's tanks and one's ceiling height, > it > > > may not be possible to have more than one or two levels of larger > > > tanks if you wanted them. By stepping them, you can open up your > > > working space above your tanks immensely if you can't increase > this > > > working space otherwise, and you only need to step them out 6" to > > > give you much more room for netting fish and for ease of getting > > your > > > arm in the tanks for cleaning if necessary. In this way, you can > > > have several levels of large tanks without needing an extension > > > ladder to reach the top level (LOL). Stepping them also helps in > > > stabilizing the racks especially when one uses multiple levels of > > > larger tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Steve: > > > > when I was in Jersey my setup was tiered,worked great > > lowest > > > > tanks were at waist level,highest at eye level.My setup here in > > > > fla.is 1/10 the size of the one I had before but it is still > tier > > > > profile. > > > > Hank > > > > ===================================== > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a fishroom with a stepped construction as you > > > wish > > > > to > > > > > build. All are just built straight up, and nearly floor level > > > tanks > > > > are > > > > > generally used for fish that like cooler conditions than a > tank > > > > higher > > > > > up on the stand. Smaller tanks are normally placed on the top > > > tiers > > > > and > > > > > larger tanks on the lower tiers. > > > > > > > > > > Take some time to plan out your setup in your fish room, and > > try > > > to > > > > > leave enough room for expansion. Be sure to insulate the > > basement > > > > walls > > > > > and ceiling with Styrofoam within the area that will be used > as > > a > > > > fish > > > > > room, and you plan for enough electrical outlets placed at > > > > convenient > > > > > locations. Also pay attention to ceiling lighting fixtures as > > > well > > > > as > > > > > leaving enough room to supply addition lighting to the tanks > on > > > an > > > > as > > > > > needed basis. Plan to construct a wall between your fishroom > > and > > > the > > > > > rest of the basement. Creating a vapor barrier is also a must > > do > > > > item > > > > > that should be included in your plans. With the insulation > and > > > > walling > > > > > in of the area, you can save quite a bit on heating costs for > > the > > > > > fishroom as the tanks will add heat to the air, and the > > > insulation > > > > will > > > > > keep it in, rather than spreading it through the house. > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget water drains so that you have a place to drain > the > > > > water > > > > > from water changes and a place for spilt water to go (and > water > > > > will be > > > > > spilled). > > > > > > > > > > Just some stuff off the top of my head. A little planning > will > > go > > > a > > > > long > > > > > way for a nice fishroom. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33561	From: hank voss	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > Bill: The only pics.that I might have of my old setup are on 35mm slides that are around somewhere,if I ever come across them and can get them digitized Ill try to post them. Hank =============================================== > Hi Hank! >   > How about a picture or two for the group.  I'm sure others would be most interested in your setup?  I know I would. >   > Bill > > --- On Mon, 11/24/08, hank voss <aatetras@...> wrote: > > From: hank voss <aatetras@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constriction > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 10:52 AM > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > \\Steve//, While many set ups I've seen are also built just > straight > > up, if what Hank means as "tiered" is in actuality "stepped," many > of \ > ============ ========= ========= === > Ray/Jim: > My racks were stepped with three tiers.One rack was 20Ls and > the other 2 were 10G with 5Gs on top.By using the step principal and > making it modual you can get away with lighter wood rather than using > 2x4s.Mine were made out of firring strips and were rock solid when > full.There was 3in.between top of tank and above support rail. There > was around 6in. of working space that jutted out from the tanks > above. I wish I had a picture of them (a lot of people could not > beleive that they would hold all those tanks) > > .. Regards Hank > > my racks are similar. You want to have at least 6" working space > > between the top of your tanks and the rail of the next tier higher > > (preferably more, if possible). As you mentioned, the rows of tank > > sizes are best graduated with the larger ones on the bottom-most row > > (s) and the smaller tanks on the top rows. This aids in being able > > to see what's going on in all tanks, and of course helps in > > stabilizing the whole rack -- having most of the weight near the > > bottom. > > > > Depending on the sizes of one's tanks and one's ceiling height, it > > may not be possible to have more than one or two levels of larger > > tanks if you wanted them. By stepping them, you can open up your > > working space above your tanks immensely if you can't increase this > > working space otherwise, and you only need to step them out 6" to > > give you much more room for netting fish and for ease of getting > your > > arm in the tanks for cleaning if necessary. In this way, you can > > have several levels of large tanks without needing an extension > > ladder to reach the top level (LOL). Stepping them also helps in > > stabilizing the racks especially when one uses multiple levels of > > larger tanks. > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > Steve: > > > when I was in Jersey my setup was tiered,worked great > lowest > > > tanks were at waist level,highest at eye level.My setup here in > > > fla.is 1/10 the size of the one I had before but it is still tier > > > profile. > > > Hank > > > ============ ========= ========= ======= > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > I've never seen a fishroom with a stepped construction as you > > wish > > > to > > > > build. All are just built straight up, and nearly floor level > > tanks > > > are > > > > generally used for fish that like cooler conditions than a tank > > > higher > > > > up on the stand. Smaller tanks are normally placed on the top > > tiers > > > and > > > > larger tanks on the lower tiers. > > > > > > > > Take some time to plan out your setup in your fish room, and > try > > to > > > > leave enough room for expansion. Be sure to insulate the > basement > > > walls > > > > and ceiling with Styrofoam within the area that will be used as > a > > > fish > > > > room, and you plan for enough electrical outlets placed at > > > convenient > > > > locations. Also pay attention to ceiling lighting fixtures as > > well > > > as > > > > leaving enough room to supply addition lighting to the tanks on > > an > > > as > > > > needed basis. Plan to construct a wall between your fishroom > and > > the > > > > rest of the basement. Creating a vapor barrier is also a must > do > > > item > > > > that should be included in your plans. With the insulation and > > > walling > > > > in of the area, you can save quite a bit on heating costs for > the > > > > fishroom as the tanks will add heat to the air, and the > > insulation > > > will > > > > keep it in, rather than spreading it through the house. > > > > > > > > Don't forget water drains so that you have a place to drain the > > > water > > > > from water changes and a place for spilt water to go (and water > > > will be > > > > spilled). > > > > > > > > Just some stuff off the top of my head. A little planning will > go > > a > > > long > > > > way for a nice fishroom. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33562	From: Alina	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat

Hi Ray, Today would be day three of my fish-in-a-hottub ich removal treatment. Everyone is fine. I have a couple of questions: Temp has been steadily at 88. I see no new signs of Ich, tho the two or three fish that have it still have some white spots. What can I expect regarding those? I assume those will burst and fall off, and eventually, I will see no more white spots. Does it take a long time to see no more of the white spots? Finally, how long do you think I can safely keep up this temperature? Like I said, they're all pretty happy, except the ichy ones who are clearly uncomfortable. Let me know what you experience has been. Thanks. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Alina, No need to raise the temperature to 90 o (and further > stress your fish), unless you feel you have one of the more virulent > forms of Ich. The common Ich (the most prevalent form by far) cannot > reproduce above 86 o. As long as you have an accurate thermometer, > you need to raise the temperature only to at least 86 o. If you're > not sure of its accuracy, raise it to 87 o to make sure. As the Ich > drops off of the fish, as part of its cycle, the Ich spores that have > fallen to the bottom will no longer be able to produce new trophonts > to re-infect your fish. > > This process will take some time, as some of the new Ich now may yet > find a host (fish) in the completion of its cycle, although at this > temperate it will be weakened. Increased aeration will help in > preventing any Ich from finding a host. Although not normally > recommended, some Stress Coat may be added to the tank in lieu of > salt to help promote a heavier slime coat on the fish. This too will > help prevent any Ich from being able to gain a foothold. Maintain 86 > o until three days after you see no further signs of Ich. Ich's > cycle takes 48 hours at this temperature and you want o give it > another 24 hours to cover any last hatchers. Do not bother will salt > baths for Ich. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > A week ago one of my fish clearly had Ich. I started treating the > > tank with salt but after one dosage, I had a Cory and a mini Placo > in > > stress. So I reduced the sality level pretty much down to nothing > > thru partial water changes. They're better but the Ich isn't. > > > > I've been reading a lot about using heat only to kill Ich. I > realize > > I could have some super strong strain, but I've got nothing to lose > > right now. I'm slowly raising temps to 90 (or at least 86F) and > > hoping to maintain it for the next week to see what happens. > > > > I'm starting to think it's hopeless. And I guess I want to save > > everybody in the tank. > > > > Has anyone just used heat successfully? Several books mention this > as > > a viable method. Some also suggest giving a separate "salt bath" to > > fish that can tolerate the salt. > > > > As always, your suggestions, thoughts, experiences, are invaluable. > > Let me know what you guys think. > > > > Alina > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33563	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Truth About Ph Adjustments by a Beginner for B

> > I know nothing of fish, but I have gardened, and find it a useless task to > try and change the PH of the soil. That is with no soil changes, just > mother nature. > The rest of us newbies thank you for the warning... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33564	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat

Hi Alina, Concerning the two or three fish that still have some white spots, yes as part of Ich's life-cycle these will drop off; you should eventually see no more white spots. Keep in mind that although the spots you saw yesterday may have dropped off in the meantime and if you are still seeing spots on these same fish, they may be "hatched" Ich trophonts that has just broken out of their cysts before the temperature reached that critical level for this protozoan. Once hatched, it could have taken them 12 hours to find their hosts. They will be able to find the hosts which they are more easily able to attach to (weaker fish, which don't have as heavy of body slime as some others) which often are the same fish which have just shed other spots. You may turn the temperature down to 86 o, if you're sure of the accuracy of your thermometer, or 87 o otherwise (unless your thermometer is way off). Unless this is one of the mutant stains of Ich (which so far it appears not to be), any temperatures above 86 o is not necessary. This also goes along with how long you can safely maintain this temperature. Although these same lines, while different fish have different requirements, and different preferred temperature ranges, as long as they're able to get about 3.3 ppm of oxygen they'll be fine -- which they normally would easily get below 80 o. Now, as water warms, its ability to carry dissolved gases of any kind diminish. At the same time, the metabolism (and with it, the respiration rate) of the fish increases. Pure water at 80 o can carry 5.7 ppm of oxygen; at 90 o, this ability is reduced to 5.0 ppm. With the addition of any other gases, and less than pure conditions -- as are found in the aquarium -- this is reduced even further. It can now be seen why it pays to maintain tanks free of dead organic debris which bacteria would act on, and which this bacteria would consume additional quantities of oxygen. Unless these two lines meet -- increased demand by the fish for oxygen in ppm - and decreased oxygen content, in ppm, of the water by less than clean water and a heavy bioload your fish should be perfectly fine. As previously stated, additional aeration will help ensure towards the maximum oxygen content the water will hold at its temperature. You can expect to see the elimination of white spots on your fish after about 7 days, but since Ich's cycle takes 48 hours there may still be some live cysts up to 9 days. For that reason, you should not start reducing the temperature until the 3rd day after seeing no more signs of Ich. Even with Cories and Plecos, you should still be able to have the token amount of 1 Tbs of salt per 5 gallons in your aquarium, which will help promote a slime coating on the fish as well as make it a little rougher for the Ich. As stated, Stress Coat will also help promote body slime (but won't have an effect on Ich). When you do reduce the temperature, reduce it gradually over a period of about 3 days (I don't know where you normally set it). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > Hi Ray, > > Today would be day three of my fish-in-a-hottub ich removal treatment. > Everyone is fine. > > I have a couple of questions: > > Temp has been steadily at 88. I see no new signs of Ich, tho the two > or three fish that have it still have some white spots. What can I > expect regarding those? I assume those will burst and fall off, and > eventually, I will see no more white spots. Does it take a long time > to see no more of the white spots? > > Finally, how long do you think I can safely keep up this temperature? > Like I said, they're all pretty happy, except the ichy ones who are > clearly uncomfortable. > > Let me know what you experience has been. > > Thanks. > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Alina, No need to raise the temperature to 90 o (and further > > stress your fish), unless you feel you have one of the more virulent > > forms of Ich. The common Ich (the most prevalent form by far) cannot > > reproduce above 86 o. As long as you have an accurate thermometer, > > you need to raise the temperature only to at least 86 o. If you're > > not sure of its accuracy, raise it to 87 o to make sure. As the Ich > > drops off of the fish, as part of its cycle, the Ich spores that have > > fallen to the bottom will no longer be able to produce new trophonts > > to re-infect your fish. > > > > This process will take some time, as some of the new Ich now may yet > > find a host (fish) in the completion of its cycle, although at this > > temperate it will be weakened. Increased aeration will help in > > preventing any Ich from finding a host. Although not normally > > recommended, some Stress Coat may be added to the tank in lieu of > > salt to help promote a heavier slime coat on the fish. This too will > > help prevent any Ich from being able to gain a foothold. Maintain 86 > > o until three days after you see no further signs of Ich. Ich's > > cycle takes 48 hours at this temperature and you want o give it > > another 24 hours to cover any last hatchers. Do not bother will salt > > baths for Ich. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > A week ago one of my fish clearly had Ich. I started treating the > > > tank with salt but after one dosage, I had a Cory and a mini Placo > > in > > > stress. So I reduced the sality level pretty much down to nothing > > > thru partial water changes. They're better but the Ich isn't. > > > > > > I've been reading a lot about using heat only to kill Ich. I > > realize > > > I could have some super strong strain, but I've got nothing to lose > > > right now. I'm slowly raising temps to 90 (or at least 86F) and > > > hoping to maintain it for the next week to see what happens. > > > > > > I'm starting to think it's hopeless. And I guess I want to save > > > everybody in the tank. > > > > > > Has anyone just used heat successfully? Several books mention this > > as > > > a viable method. Some also suggest giving a separate "salt bath" to > > > fish that can tolerate the salt. > > > > > > As always, your suggestions, thoughts, experiences, are invaluable. > > > Let me know what you guys think. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33565	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units?

You can if they fit. LOL! I started out with a whisper pump. Never worked right. Anyhow, the filter cartridges are just generic thin poly-foam bags filled with carbon. Standard for every brand of filter, except that they're sized and shaped to fit those filters. To work right the filter cartridge has to entirely block the path of the water through the filter. Otherwise the water will just go around it. You could also make your own filter filler from media bags, polyfill or polyfilter material, carbon and anything else you like. I added a backign of polyfilter material and a bag of nanoballs to my filters. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > I have a Whisper Bio-bag, which I bought by mistake from Petco months > ago, thinking it was a generic cartridge. Our three aquariums have > Cascade filters. So, can I use the Whisper Bio-bags in my Cascade > filter units? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33566	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units?

That's part of why I added a layer of polyfilter and a bag of nano balls to each of my filters - and I have two of them in my tank. Works well. The other reason is that the cheaper layer of poly filter gets the worst of the dirt and can be thrown out every week or two and keep the cartridge going. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Whisper bio-bag compatible with Cascade units? While on this topic, it's not always a good idea to change out your filter cartridges... even though the manufacturers might say so. Your primary biofiltration (nitrifying bacteria) colonies live in your filter floss pads, sponges, etc. so if you only have one filter cartridge and you trash it, you could put your tank into a mini-cycle which could result in ammonia/nitrite spikes until the tank re-cycles. Read my blog article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more details. If you do like throwing them away, rather than cleaning/reusing them, then you should run two filter cartridges and trash the one in the back.. that gets the dirtiest... then move the front one to the back and add a new one in the front. This will at least keep some of your nitrifying bacteria in your filter system so your mini-cycle might not be as bad on the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33567	From: hank voss	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: Ray: Sent an earier answer that ended up in cyberspace somewhere ill try again.The step method is the mosteffecient way to build for max. amt. of tanks in a small space.My racks were all 1x2s even the legs.The 50g rack(6 tanks) was of 2x2s.The most important thing was to screw it together not nail it. Being a "penny pincher" or cheap depending on your point of view you'd be surprised what you can build for little or next to nothing.And they held up for 32 yrs till I broke them down. Regards Hank > > Hank, I thought that's what you meant by "tiered;" -- stepped. > With > > the wooden racks I built 40 - 45 years ago, I used 1" x 3"s (with > 2" > > x 4" legs) for the lighter tanks -- 2 tiers of 20L's and a tier of > > 15's. As I start all my rack about 14" or 15" off the floor, and > > have about 4" of space between tiers plus the 3" of wood, the top > > tier is just about eye level. With heavier tanks, like 30 Gallons, > I > > used 2" x 4"s, and with still heavier tanks I used 2" x 6" -- these > > have two tiers of three 50 Gallon tanks each, so we're talking > about > > 415 #'s of water per tank or 2490 #'s -- well over a ton of water > on > > these racks. > > > > The steel (angle iron) racks built later on save a lot of space > > between tiers as the steel is only 1 1/2" (it makes a big > > difference). Starting them about 9" off the floor, I have two > tiers > > of 50 gallon tanks and one tier of 40 gallon (breeder) tanks, all > > stepped out 6". It really makes a hugh difference in opening up > that > > area to work in. I don't bother stepping the larger tank racks > out, > > as because of these tank's height (75 to 125 gallons), I'm only > able > > to have two tiers so I just increased the working space between the > > two tiers. > > > > To make use of the space over the 2-tier wood 50 gallon tank racks, > > I've suspended a few racks from the ceiling to hold rows of 26-H > > gallon breeding tanks. Every bit of space helps! You never have > > enough tank space <grin>. Also, for that same reason, I have rows > of > > 10's and 15's end-wise under the racks started 14" or 15" off the > > floor (for cooler water fish -- killies, etc.). Using all the > space > > from floor to ceiling, I have two fans (one in each of the opposite > > corners) continually forcing the warmer air downwards to get a more > > uniform temperature throughout. Don't know how I got into writing > > all this, the main point is that stepping the tiers out not only > > allows for saving space in the total height of the racks (you can > > reach the top row more easily), but greatly increases the working > > space between tiers. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ray/Jim: > > > My racks were stepped with three tiers.One rack was 20Ls > > and > > > the other 2 were 10G with 5Gs on top.By using the step principal > > and > > > making it modual you can get away with lighter wood rather than > > using > > > 2x4s.Mine were made out of firring strips and were rock solid > when > > > full.There was 3in.between top of tank and above support rail. > > There > > > was around 6in. of working space that jutted out from the tanks > > > above. I wish I had a picture of them (a lot of people could not > > > beleive that they would hold all those tanks) > > > > > > . Regards Hank > > > > my racks are similar. You want to have at least 6" working > space > > > > between the top of your tanks and the rail of the next tier > > higher > > > > (preferably more, if possible). As you mentioned, the rows of > > tank > > > > sizes are best graduated with the larger ones on the bottom- > most > > row > > > > (s) and the smaller tanks on the top rows. This aids in being > > able > > > > to see what's going on in all tanks, and of course helps in > > > > stabilizing the whole rack -- having most of the weight near > the > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > Depending on the sizes of one's tanks and one's ceiling height, > > it > > > > may not be possible to have more than one or two levels of > larger > > > > tanks if you wanted them. By stepping them, you can open up > your > > > > working space above your tanks immensely if you can't increase > > this > > > > working space otherwise, and you only need to step them out 6" > to > > > > give you much more room for netting fish and for ease of > getting > > > your > > > > arm in the tanks for cleaning if necessary. In this way, you > can > > > > have several levels of large tanks without needing an extension > > > > ladder to reach the top level (LOL). Stepping them also helps > in > > > > stabilizing the racks especially when one uses multiple levels > of > > > > larger tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Steve: > > > > > when I was in Jersey my setup was tiered,worked great > > > lowest > > > > > tanks were at waist level,highest at eye level.My setup here > in > > > > > fla.is 1/10 the size of the one I had before but it is still > > tier > > > > > profile. > > > > > Hank > > > > > ===================================== > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a fishroom with a stepped construction as > you > > > > wish > > > > > to > > > > > > build. All are just built straight up, and nearly floor > level > > > > tanks > > > > > are > > > > > > generally used for fish that like cooler conditions than a > > tank > > > > > higher > > > > > > up on the stand. Smaller tanks are normally placed on the > top > > > > tiers > > > > > and > > > > > > larger tanks on the lower tiers. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take some time to plan out your setup in your fish room, > and > > > try > > > > to > > > > > > leave enough room for expansion. Be sure to insulate the > > > basement > > > > > walls > > > > > > and ceiling with Styrofoam within the area that will be > used > > as > > > a > > > > > fish > > > > > > room, and you plan for enough electrical outlets placed at > > > > > convenient > > > > > > locations. Also pay attention to ceiling lighting fixtures > as > > > > well > > > > > as > > > > > > leaving enough room to supply addition lighting to the > tanks > > on > > > > an > > > > > as > > > > > > needed basis. Plan to construct a wall between your > fishroom > > > and > > > > the > > > > > > rest of the basement. Creating a vapor barrier is also a > must > > > do > > > > > item > > > > > > that should be included in your plans. With the insulation > > and > > > > > walling > > > > > > in of the area, you can save quite a bit on heating costs > for > > > the > > > > > > fishroom as the tanks will add heat to the air, and the > > > > insulation > > > > > will > > > > > > keep it in, rather than spreading it through the house. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget water drains so that you have a place to drain > > the > > > > > water > > > > > > from water changes and a place for spilt water to go (and > > water > > > > > will be > > > > > > spilled). > > > > > > > > > > > > Just some stuff off the top of my head. A little planning > > will > > > go > > > > a > > > > > long > > > > > > way for a nice fishroom. > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33568	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Requesting photos/drawings of fish rack design using wood constr

Hi Hank, Yeah, I saw that post you sent, but there was nothing written. Amazing -- you trusted 2" x 2"s for racks of six 50 gallon tanks. I drilled and used three 1/4" carriage bolts in every joint I made. I probably over did it though with material. They're really heavy, with two 10' 2x6s, two 10' 2x4s, four 4' 2x6s, four 4' 2x4s, four 18" 2x6s and four 18" 2x4s. Plus I used 1/2" plywood as a base. Overkill to say the least. I put the plans (with an article) in "Lyre-Tales" (Exotic Aquarium Society) back in the '60's. Well, still no sagging or signs of weakening (I crossed-braced them across the back and ends with 1/8" x 1" aluminum stock). I could probably sell them to the circus for elephant stunts (lol). I'd never trust nailing anything that's gonna hold that much weight. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > Ray: > Sent an earier answer that ended up in cyberspace somewhere ill > try again.The step method is the mosteffecient way to build for max. > amt. of tanks in a small space.My racks were all 1x2s even the > legs.The 50g rack(6 tanks) was of 2x2s.The most important thing was > to screw it together not nail it. > Being a "penny pincher" or cheap depending on your point of view > you'd be surprised what you can build for little or next to > nothing.And they held up for 32 yrs till I broke them down. > Regards Hank > > > > Hank, I thought that's what you meant by "tiered;" -- stepped. > > With > > > the wooden racks I built 40 - 45 years ago, I used 1" x 3"s (with > > 2" > > > x 4" legs) for the lighter tanks -- 2 tiers of 20L's and a tier > of > > > 15's. As I start all my rack about 14" or 15" off the floor, and > > > have about 4" of space between tiers plus the 3" of wood, the top > > > tier is just about eye level. With heavier tanks, like 30 > Gallons, > > I > > > used 2" x 4"s, and with still heavier tanks I used 2" x 6" -- > these > > > have two tiers of three 50 Gallon tanks each, so we're talking > > about > > > 415 #'s of water per tank or 2490 #'s -- well over a ton of water > > on > > > these racks. > > > > > > The steel (angle iron) racks built later on save a lot of space > > > between tiers as the steel is only 1 1/2" (it makes a big > > > difference). Starting them about 9" off the floor, I have two > > tiers > > > of 50 gallon tanks and one tier of 40 gallon (breeder) tanks, all > > > stepped out 6". It really makes a hugh difference in opening up > > that > > > area to work in. I don't bother stepping the larger tank racks > > out, > > > as because of these tank's height (75 to 125 gallons), I'm only > > able > > > to have two tiers so I just increased the working space between > the > > > two tiers. > > > > > > To make use of the space over the 2-tier wood 50 gallon tank > racks, > > > I've suspended a few racks from the ceiling to hold rows of 26- H > > > gallon breeding tanks. Every bit of space helps! You never have > > > enough tank space <grin>. Also, for that same reason, I have > rows > > of > > > 10's and 15's end-wise under the racks started 14" or 15" off the > > > floor (for cooler water fish -- killies, etc.). Using all the > > space > > > from floor to ceiling, I have two fans (one in each of the > opposite > > > corners) continually forcing the warmer air downwards to get a > more > > > uniform temperature throughout. Don't know how I got into > writing > > > all this, the main point is that stepping the tiers out not only > > > allows for saving space in the total height of the racks (you can > > > reach the top row more easily), but greatly increases the working > > > space between tiers. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray/Jim: > > > > My racks were stepped with three tiers.One rack was > 20Ls > > > and > > > > the other 2 were 10G with 5Gs on top.By using the step > principal > > > and > > > > making it modual you can get away with lighter wood rather than > > > using > > > > 2x4s.Mine were made out of firring strips and were rock solid > > when > > > > full.There was 3in.between top of tank and above support rail. > > > There > > > > was around 6in. of working space that jutted out from the tanks > > > > above. I wish I had a picture of them (a lot of people could > not > > > > beleive that they would hold all those tanks) > > > > > > > > . Regards Hank > > > > > my racks are similar. You want to have at least 6" working > > space > > > > > between the top of your tanks and the rail of the next tier > > > higher > > > > > (preferably more, if possible). As you mentioned, the rows > of > > > tank > > > > > sizes are best graduated with the larger ones on the bottom- > > most > > > row > > > > > (s) and the smaller tanks on the top rows. This aids in > being > > > able > > > > > to see what's going on in all tanks, and of course helps in > > > > > stabilizing the whole rack -- having most of the weight near > > the > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > > > Depending on the sizes of one's tanks and one's ceiling > height, > > > it > > > > > may not be possible to have more than one or two levels of > > larger > > > > > tanks if you wanted them. By stepping them, you can open up > > your > > > > > working space above your tanks immensely if you can't > increase > > > this > > > > > working space otherwise, and you only need to step them out > 6" > > to > > > > > give you much more room for netting fish and for ease of > > getting > > > > your > > > > > arm in the tanks for cleaning if necessary. In this way, you > > can > > > > > have several levels of large tanks without needing an > extension > > > > > ladder to reach the top level (LOL). Stepping them also > helps > > in > > > > > stabilizing the racks especially when one uses multiple > levels > > of > > > > > larger tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hank voss" <aatetras@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve: > > > > > > when I was in Jersey my setup was tiered,worked great > > > > lowest > > > > > > tanks were at waist level,highest at eye level.My setup > here > > in > > > > > > fla.is 1/10 the size of the one I had before but it is > still > > > tier > > > > > > profile. > > > > > > Hank > > > > > > ===================================== > > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a fishroom with a stepped construction as > > you > > > > > wish > > > > > > to > > > > > > > build. All are just built straight up, and nearly floor > > level > > > > > tanks > > > > > > are > > > > > > > generally used for fish that like cooler conditions than > a > > > tank > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > up on the stand. Smaller tanks are normally placed on the > > top > > > > > tiers > > > > > > and > > > > > > > larger tanks on the lower tiers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take some time to plan out your setup in your fish room, > > and > > > > try > > > > > to > > > > > > > leave enough room for expansion. Be sure to insulate the > > > > basement > > > > > > walls > > > > > > > and ceiling with Styrofoam within the area that will be > > used > > > as > > > > a > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > room, and you plan for enough electrical outlets placed > at > > > > > > convenient > > > > > > > locations. Also pay attention to ceiling lighting > fixtures > > as > > > > > well > > > > > > as > > > > > > > leaving enough room to supply addition lighting to the > > tanks > > > on > > > > > an > > > > > > as > > > > > > > needed basis. Plan to construct a wall between your > > fishroom > > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > > rest of the basement. Creating a vapor barrier is also a > > must > > > > do > > > > > > item > > > > > > > that should be included in your plans. With the > insulation > > > and > > > > > > walling > > > > > > > in of the area, you can save quite a bit on heating costs > > for > > > > the > > > > > > > fishroom as the tanks will add heat to the air, and the > > > > > insulation > > > > > > will > > > > > > > keep it in, rather than spreading it through the house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget water drains so that you have a place to > drain > > > the > > > > > > water > > > > > > > from water changes and a place for spilt water to go (and > > > water > > > > > > will be > > > > > > > spilled). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just some stuff off the top of my head. A little planning > > > will > > > > go > > > > > a > > > > > > long > > > > > > > way for a nice fishroom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33569	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat

Hello again Alina, Just thought I'd re-send this message as, although it made it onto the group site (and into the archives as message # 33564), I haven't seen it posted as email and that was over an hour ago. I've sent another message since (on another subject), but I wasn't sure if you got this; it should have been posted before my last message. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Alina, Concerning the two or three fish that still have some > white spots, yes as part of Ich's life-cycle these will drop off; you > should eventually see no more white spots. Keep in mind that > although the spots you saw yesterday may have dropped off in the > meantime and if you are still seeing spots on these same fish, they > may be "hatched" Ich trophonts that has just broken out of their > cysts before the temperature reached that critical level for this > protozoan. Once hatched, it could have taken them 12 hours to find > their hosts. They will be able to find the hosts which they are more > easily able to attach to (weaker fish, which don't have as heavy of > body slime as some others) which often are the same fish which have > just shed other spots. > > You may turn the temperature down to 86 o, if you're sure of the > accuracy of your thermometer, or 87 o otherwise (unless your > thermometer is way off). Unless this is one of the mutant stains of > Ich (which so far it appears not to be), any temperatures above 86 o > is not necessary. This also goes along with how long you can safely > maintain this temperature. Although these same lines, while > different fish have different requirements, and different preferred > temperature ranges, as long as they're able to get about 3.3 ppm of > oxygen they'll be fine -- which they normally would easily get below > 80 o. > > Now, as water warms, its ability to carry dissolved gases of any kind > diminish. At the same time, the metabolism (and with it, the > respiration rate) of the fish increases. Pure water at 80 o can > carry 5.7 ppm of oxygen; at 90 o, this ability is reduced to 5.0 > ppm. With the addition of any other gases, and less than pure > conditions -- as are found in the aquarium -- this is reduced even > further. It can now be seen why it pays to maintain tanks free of > dead organic debris which bacteria would act on, and which this > bacteria would consume additional quantities of oxygen. Unless these > two lines meet -- increased demand by the fish for oxygen in ppm - > and decreased oxygen content, in ppm, of the water by less than clean > water and a heavy bioload your fish should be perfectly fine. As > previously stated, additional aeration will help ensure towards the > maximum oxygen content the water will hold at its temperature. > > You can expect to see the elimination of white spots on your fish > after about 7 days, but since Ich's cycle takes 48 hours there may > still be some live cysts up to 9 days. For that reason, you should > not start reducing the temperature until the 3rd day after seeing no > more signs of Ich. Even with Cories and Plecos, you should still be > able to have the token amount of 1 Tbs of salt per 5 gallons in your > aquarium, which will help promote a slime coating on the fish as well > as make it a little rougher for the Ich. As stated, Stress Coat will > also help promote body slime (but won't have an effect on Ich). When > you do reduce the temperature, reduce it gradually over a period of > about 3 days (I don't know where you normally set it). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > Today would be day three of my fish-in-a-hottub ich removal > treatment. > > Everyone is fine. > > > > I have a couple of questions: > > > > Temp has been steadily at 88. I see no new signs of Ich, tho the two > > or three fish that have it still have some white spots. What can I > > expect regarding those? I assume those will burst and fall off, and > > eventually, I will see no more white spots. Does it take a long time > > to see no more of the white spots? > > > > Finally, how long do you think I can safely keep up this > temperature? > > Like I said, they're all pretty happy, except the ichy ones who are > > clearly uncomfortable. > > > > Let me know what you experience has been. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Alina, No need to raise the temperature to 90 o (and further > > > stress your fish), unless you feel you have one of the more > virulent > > > forms of Ich. The common Ich (the most prevalent form by far) > cannot > > > reproduce above 86 o. As long as you have an accurate > thermometer, > > > you need to raise the temperature only to at least 86 o. If > you're > > > not sure of its accuracy, raise it to 87 o to make sure. As the > Ich > > > drops off of the fish, as part of its cycle, the Ich spores that > have > > > fallen to the bottom will no longer be able to produce new > trophonts > > > to re-infect your fish. > > > > > > This process will take some time, as some of the new Ich now may > yet > > > find a host (fish) in the completion of its cycle, although at > this > > > temperate it will be weakened. Increased aeration will help in > > > preventing any Ich from finding a host. Although not normally > > > recommended, some Stress Coat may be added to the tank in lieu of > > > salt to help promote a heavier slime coat on the fish. This too > will > > > help prevent any Ich from being able to gain a foothold. > Maintain 86 > > > o until three days after you see no further signs of Ich. Ich's > > > cycle takes 48 hours at this temperature and you want o give it > > > another 24 hours to cover any last hatchers. Do not bother will > salt > > > baths for Ich. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > A week ago one of my fish clearly had Ich. I started treating > the > > > > tank with salt but after one dosage, I had a Cory and a mini > Placo > > > in > > > > stress. So I reduced the sality level pretty much down to > nothing > > > > thru partial water changes. They're better but the Ich isn't. > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot about using heat only to kill Ich. I > > > realize > > > > I could have some super strong strain, but I've got nothing to > lose > > > > right now. I'm slowly raising temps to 90 (or at least 86F) and > > > > hoping to maintain it for the next week to see what happens. > > > > > > > > I'm starting to think it's hopeless. And I guess I want to save > > > > everybody in the tank. > > > > > > > > Has anyone just used heat successfully? Several books mention > this > > > as > > > > a viable method. Some also suggest giving a separate "salt > bath" to > > > > fish that can tolerate the salt. > > > > > > > > As always, your suggestions, thoughts, experiences, are > invaluable. > > > > Let me know what you guys think. > > > > > > > > Alina > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33570	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Lovers TV

Donna, Thanks for sharing that here with us. Everyone who can watch this should watch it. it is worth your time to see it. Watching the parental care that goes on with the Cichlids in this documentary is fascinating. I know it is a major factor in why I keep Cichlids. I went out and bought this after I saw it. Two Thumbs Up. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 3:04 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Lovers TV The National Geographic Documentary Lake Tanganyika - Jewel of the Rift is going to air this Friday November 28th at 10am (eastern time I am assuming) according to this webpage: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/jewel-of-the-rift-0480/Overvie w [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33571	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

see if you read all of my post you would see why i said what i said, you knew what type fo gravel i have but you didn't see the first thing in that paragraph? the pH of the water here is naturally high about 7.6 our water has a lot of metals in it and i understand from talking to local people that a lot of people lose fish due to metal poisoning, so yes by saying we can't change water chemistry you are saying that no one here should own angelfish again if you read my post you would understand this statement, he did not say it directly but it's the same principle now as for angels, you play know it all, but when i look up angels and look at thier specifics they are supposed to be in water maintained at a 7.0 pH as are a lot of the south american cichlids now weather or not my local people buy from farms that use a higher pH or not I have no idea, but i would rather not take the risk and find a way to maintian a 7.0 pH even if it means i have to slowly delute it with RO or distilled water, if all i do if manage to get rid of the metals in the water then so be it because at least it will be healthier for the fish i already own, but as for my tap water the only fish that would thrive are my African cichlids --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hello Cortland, Please know that \\Steve// is not saying "no one in > Louisiana should own angels." At least, I haven't seen him specify > this anywhere. What he is saying, and what we ALL will advise you, > is -- its best not to mess with your pH. We are not maintaining fish > so that we can play with chemistry -- fish will not tolerate wide > changes in the chemistry make up of their water, and by messing with > it, you are inviting changes in it -- especially if you don't > understand it. > > Fish do BEST without the addition of chemicals to their water, i.e., > you should NEVER add chemicals to your aquarium if you don't have to > (and unless its a dire emergency, you don't have to). Products such > as SeaChem's neutral regulator work ONLY in association with one's > particular water conditions, and those water conditions are different > with each individual hobbyist's water -- meaning that the product MAY > work if it doesn't need to drastically change one's water but will > only serve to unsuccessfully combat one's water conditions if those > conditions are more extreme -- such as yours are! > > Except for distilled (and rain/snow) water, most ALL other water has > a buffering capacity (KH, temporary hardness). This is what products > such as SeaChem's N. R. needs to counteract when attempting to change > the pH of the water. The more this buffering capacity is reduced, > the greater the propensity for it be broken, causing a crash in pH > which will be detrimental to you fish. If by chance you did > successfully reduce the pH by counteracting your buffering capacity -- > how would you maintain it at that same pH when doing needed weekly > partial water changes. You water would be bouncing back to a higher > pH. You'd have to find the exact amount of SeaChem N. R. to add to > the exact amount of water being changed at any one time. But as this > isn't working for you anyway, its a moot point. > > Water chemistry, when it comes to the safety of the fish, is not that > easy. Its always best to be satified with the water you have, and to > the maintain fish which will do well in your water as is. Its easier > on the fish and its easier on you. > > Now, as for these Angelfish you want to add, why on earth would you > want to get your water to neutral??? Your present pH of 7.6 is far > from being too high. Be advised that Angels will do perfectly well > at this pH, even up to pH 8.6. Many Angelfish breeders breed their > fish at pH 7.4 and raise the fry at pH 7.6 as this aids in their bone > structure. > > If you're still hung up on your pH, first test your tap water (if its > the same pH as your tank water, leave it alone). If your tap water's > pH is lower, which I half-expect (could be wrong of course, but test > it), look to your Pebble Beach Gravel -- AND REMOVE IT. Depending > upon where its "quarried," this often is high in calcium carbonates! > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" > <courtland_jacob@> wrote: > > > > if that's the case then you're saying no one in louisiana should > own > > angels, and when it comes to chemistry, it's not playing god, > > chemistry is one science humans have owned for a long time, we add > > chlorine to the water to make it safe for us just to have to remove > > it to put in our fish tanks, we have to fool wish water chemistry > > every time we change water or test it > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Angels are a magnificent fish. However, if you do not have the > > water > > > parameters to keep them, you really cannot keep them. Playing god > > with > > > you water will only humble you. Your Seachem failed to reduce the > > > buffering capacity of your water, which would reduce the pH. The > > problem > > > with reducing the buffer is twofold. First, you will need to do > > this > > > constantly, and watch it like a hawk. Second, you are likely to > > break > > > the buffer completely, which will lead to a sudden reduction of > > the pH > > > usually by far too much and too quickly to be helpful to any fish > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > Your best bet is to look for fish that will live happily in the > > water > > > that you already have. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:59 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem > > > > > > my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have > now, > > but > > > i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to neutral, > i > > > have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't > > worked, > > > and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and > that > > > hasn't worked > > > > > > the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has petco > > > pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and and > > > anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped > > around > > > it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would be > > > keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could suggest > > to > > > help sove my problem i would appreciate it > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33572	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Questions about additives

While searching the web for all things fish, one can not help but go down many side paths. A couple of products have tweeked my interest, and wanted the opinions of the people in the know, that have no personal interest in whether one buys something or not... *EcoBio-Block Benefits: * - *Naturally clarifies cloudy water in aquariums and ponds * - *Removes bad odors * - *Significantly reduces the need for water changes and gravel vacuuming * - *Quickly establishes nitrifying bacteria in new aquariums * - *Beneficial bacteria and nutrients are sealed in a live and propagable state, eliminating the need to add liquid or powder bacteria** - Easy-to-use, no-mess - Lasts for years - Effective in both fresh and salt water * - *Safe for delicate fish * - *US Patented * Does this stuff work?* *Looks a bit pricey, but lasts for years... Another thing I noticed that was in the same sort of product range was something called Algone. Same question, does it work? Well, break is over and back to the grindstone... ** [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33573	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: The Truth About pH Adjustments by a Beginner for Beginner

This message below is being reposted after being edited. As it appeared in the archives, it was messed up with capital "A"s after each sentence and every contraction had its apostrophe changed to three other characters, a small "a", a greek letter (e?) and a small "TM" sign. As we thought some members may have received it in this form as their email, we (Bill and I) thought it best to resend it, corrected, to clarify it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > >  Yes, you can adjust the pH of any water anywhere! > And when you do you will most probably become aggravated, > disgusted, worried and in general be angry at the whole world.  One thing you won't be is happy, contended and relaxed watching your new friends. Was it all worth it?  Let's let you be the judge as you read my story.  >   > Your are crazy about a certain fish, you buy it, the fish dies!  Why?  You fed it good food, gave it good water and timely water changes and maintained a correct temperature.  Why did  this fish whither away and die in such a short time?  Ah, I have it!  You bought bad fish, of course, that must be the reason.  Back out you go for more of the same fish (did you happen to notice they were all there, just like before, the same fish in the same tank, and they are still healthy)?  You bring these new fish home and they die in the same time frame just as before!  Now what's wrong here?  Maybe your water is not the same as the LPS?  What could be different?  Maybe it's that pH stuff everyone keeps talking about. >   > Water parameters are given for each type and specie of fish.  There's a reason for that.  Most people buy tropical fish to watch and enjoy.  The fish being healthy and colorful are the rewards of their investment.  Many times there is a bonus in the fish giving back babies.  This only occurs if these animals are kept in tip-top shape.  They are not in tip-top shape if they're swimming in the wrong type of water. >   > Give the fish a break!  Give yourself a break!  Leave the water alone.  Establish a solid home water baseline.  Once known, go out and buy fish that will match that baseline and enjoy yourself.  The fish will be happier and so will you. >   > I've just spent an exhausting, aggravating, and frustrating 5 weeks in learning the hard way the story I have just related.  Some people that I will now call good friends on this list tried to stop me.  They didn't want me to jump off the cliff.  They tried every-which- way to convince me.  NO WAY!!!!  I jumped and paid for the trip all the way to the bottom!  >   > You can adjust pH and here's how: >   > To raise you will need baking soda, and crushed coral to act as a buffer. > A very good test kit with a lot of testing re-fills, because you'll need them. > Last, but the most important, you will need a gram scale of laboratory quality and a notebook.  That's it, your ready to adjust the ph as high as you would like! > Oh!  Just a minute!  Ah, but you don't have a minute!  Your busy checking the tanks pH, next let's check the pH of that water you just did your partial water change with.  Now get your power filter manual out and find out exactly how long it will take it to turn that aquarium water a couple of times,  Oops, we better take an pH reading to insure that all is well.  Oh, it isn't?  Too much soda?  GH and KH are out of line and rising.  Quick!  No time to waste!  Let's do another PWC to bring everything back down.  Now don't forget to check those Water Parameters again. >   > Now didn't I tell you that you could change pH.  Wasn't it fun?  Not to me, > I am ashamed to tell you this story and the bigger shame is that it's all true. > I really did all of this but if I can save one of you from NOT doing it then it was worth my telling you.  The only good side of all this nonsense?  One!  All of my poor fish lived through this kayos!  Their doing better in water that match's their parameters now--------- ----------------------my own! >   > Bill >   > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33574	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

I use stress coat in my tap water to detoxify heavy metal's, this could help you as well, it also helps detoxify ammonia. Most fish also do not have to have a certain PH only to live in, I have a PH that is usually around 6.2-6.4 and my angel's do just fine, I would assume that a slightly higher PH than 7 should also be just fine if they do well under 7. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > see if you read all of my post you would see why i said what i said, > you knew what type fo gravel i have but you didn't see the first > thing in that paragraph? the pH of the water here is naturally high > about 7.6 our water has a lot of metals in it and i understand from > talking to local people that a lot of people lose fish due to metal > poisoning, so yes by saying we can't change water chemistry you are > saying that no one here should own angelfish > again if you read my post you would understand this statement, he > did not say it directly but it's the same principle > > now as for angels, you play know it all, but when i look up angels > and look at thier specifics they are supposed to be in water > maintained at a 7.0 pH as are a lot of the south american cichlids > now weather or not my local people buy from farms that use a higher > pH or not I have no idea, but i would rather not take the risk and > find a way to maintian a 7.0 pH even if it means i have to slowly > delute it with RO or distilled water, if all i do if manage to get > rid of the metals in the water then so be it because at least it > will be healthier for the fish i already own, but as for my tap > water the only fish that would thrive are my African cichlids > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Hello Cortland, Please know that \\Steve// is not saying "no one > in > > Louisiana should own angels." At least, I haven't seen him > specify > > this anywhere. What he is saying, and what we ALL will advise > you, > > is -- its best not to mess with your pH. We are not maintaining > fish > > so that we can play with chemistry -- fish will not tolerate wide > > changes in the chemistry make up of their water, and by messing > with > > it, you are inviting changes in it -- especially if you don't > > understand it. > > > > Fish do BEST without the addition of chemicals to their water, > i.e., > > you should NEVER add chemicals to your aquarium if you don't have > to > > (and unless its a dire emergency, you don't have to). Products > such > > as SeaChem's neutral regulator work ONLY in association with one's > > particular water conditions, and those water conditions are > different > > with each individual hobbyist's water -- meaning that the product > MAY > > work if it doesn't need to drastically change one's water but will > > only serve to unsuccessfully combat one's water conditions if > those > > conditions are more extreme -- such as yours are! > > > > Except for distilled (and rain/snow) water, most ALL other water > has > > a buffering capacity (KH, temporary hardness). This is what > products > > such as SeaChem's N. R. needs to counteract when attempting to > change > > the pH of the water. The more this buffering capacity is reduced, > > the greater the propensity for it be broken, causing a crash in pH > > which will be detrimental to you fish. If by chance you did > > successfully reduce the pH by counteracting your buffering > capacity -- > > how would you maintain it at that same pH when doing needed > weekly > > partial water changes. You water would be bouncing back to a > higher > > pH. You'd have to find the exact amount of SeaChem N. R. to add > to > > the exact amount of water being changed at any one time. But as > this > > isn't working for you anyway, its a moot point. > > > > Water chemistry, when it comes to the safety of the fish, is not > that > > easy. Its always best to be satified with the water you have, and > to > > the maintain fish which will do well in your water as is. Its > easier > > on the fish and its easier on you. > > > > Now, as for these Angelfish you want to add, why on earth would > you > > want to get your water to neutral??? Your present pH of 7.6 is > far > > from being too high. Be advised that Angels will do perfectly > well > > at this pH, even up to pH 8.6. Many Angelfish breeders breed > their > > fish at pH 7.4 and raise the fry at pH 7.6 as this aids in their > bone > > structure. > > > > If you're still hung up on your pH, first test your tap water (if > its > > the same pH as your tank water, leave it alone). If your tap > water's > > pH is lower, which I half-expect (could be wrong of course, but > test > > it), look to your Pebble Beach Gravel -- AND REMOVE IT. Depending > > upon where its "quarried," this often is high in calcium > carbonates! > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Courtland Jacob" > > <courtland_jacob@> wrote: > > > > > > if that's the case then you're saying no one in louisiana should > > own > > > angels, and when it comes to chemistry, it's not playing god, > > > chemistry is one science humans have owned for a long time, we > add > > > chlorine to the water to make it safe for us just to have to > remove > > > it to put in our fish tanks, we have to fool wish water > chemistry > > > every time we change water or test it > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Angels are a magnificent fish. However, if you do not have the > > > water > > > > parameters to keep them, you really cannot keep them. Playing > god > > > with > > > > you water will only humble you. Your Seachem failed to reduce > the > > > > buffering capacity of your water, which would reduce the pH. > The > > > problem > > > > with reducing the buffer is twofold. First, you will need to > do > > > this > > > > constantly, and watch it like a hawk. Second, you are likely > to > > > break > > > > the buffer completely, which will lead to a sudden reduction > of > > > the pH > > > > usually by far too much and too quickly to be helpful to any > fish > > > in the > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > Your best bet is to look for fish that will live happily in > the > > > water > > > > that you already have. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:59 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem > > > > > > > > my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have > > now, > > > but > > > > i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to > neutral, > > i > > > > have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't > > > worked, > > > > and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and > > that > > > > hasn't worked > > > > > > > > the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has > petco > > > > pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and > and > > > > anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped > > > around > > > > it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would > be > > > > keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could > suggest > > > to > > > > help sove my problem i would appreciate it > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33575	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Lovers TV

Somebody needs to record it and YouTube it. I don't subscribe to NGC down here. Ooops.. I spoke too soon. Somebody already did. Part 1 starts here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI1t6d1zaJw It looks like it's 7 parts all together, all from the same YouTuber... HarryB1959. Is that our Harry? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Lovers TV Donna, Thanks for sharing that here with us. Everyone who can watch this should watch it. it is worth your time to see it. Watching the parental care that goes on with the Cichlids in this documentary is fascinating. I know it is a major factor in why I keep Cichlids. I went out and bought this after I saw it. Two Thumbs Up. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 3:04 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Lovers TV The National Geographic Documentary Lake Tanganyika - Jewel of the Rift is going to air this Friday November 28th at 10am (eastern time I am assuming) according to this webpage: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/jewel-of-the-rift-0480/Overvie <http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/jewel-of-the-rift-0480/Overvi e> w [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 12:08:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 1:37:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33576	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about additives

95% of the "crap" that is sold is not needed 95% of the time. Remember that... and approach any chemical or additive with that kind of skepticism. Any product that says you do not have to do frequent PWC's (partial water changes)... or worse, discourages people from doing frequent PWC's is crap IMO.. and I'd like to take the owner of that company and make their kids eat and drink the same water as they are purporting for the fish. I'm not an activist of any sorts but I just don't understand companies that try to prey on human's basic need for being lazy.. and yes, I am one of those lazy humans (LOL).. which is why I bought a Python Water Change System.. not a bunch of crappy chemicals that try to discourage me from doing PWC's. It's not fair to the fish to be forced to live in their own waste for extended periods of time without removing/diluting the water on a regular and frequent basis. This is what a PWC does. Same with frequent (every week or so) filter maintenance to remove the collection of fish waste solids before they break down and go back into solution to become part of the DOC's in the water that the fish then have to breathe and live in (dissolved organic compounds, when it pertains to dissolved fish poop = diarrhea). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harl Myers Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:13 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about additives While searching the web for all things fish, one can not help but go down many side paths. A couple of products have tweeked my interest, and wanted the opinions of the people in the know, that have no personal interest in whether one buys something or not... *EcoBio-Block Benefits: * - *Naturally clarifies cloudy water in aquariums and ponds * - *Removes bad odors * - *Significantly reduces the need for water changes and gravel vacuuming * - *Quickly establishes nitrifying bacteria in new aquariums * - *Beneficial bacteria and nutrients are sealed in a live and propagable state, eliminating the need to add liquid or powder bacteria** - Easy-to-use, no-mess - Lasts for years - Effective in both fresh and salt water * - *Safe for delicate fish * - *US Patented * Does this stuff work?* *Looks a bit pricey, but lasts for years... Another thing I noticed that was in the same sort of product range was something called Algone. Same question, does it work? Well, break is over and back to the grindstone... ** _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 1:58:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33577	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

Also to clarify, most fish have a general PH range that they do best in, but all fish can acclimate to a PH that is a little off from their range. I'm not certain of the range that angel's can live in, but I would assume 6-7.5 PH would be fine for them. If you were going to try to breed them then you might have to do more work to stabilize your PH at a lower range, but that would (as Bill has already said in his PH adjustment's post) require a lot of work to maintain that PH, and you would spend more time testing your water and making sure everything is stable rather than enjoying your fish. I also did the same mistake as Bill and tried to maintain a PH of 7 when I initially set up my tank, needless to say I lost a lot of fish before I learned that it's way too much work to try to maintain a PH that is vastly different than your tap water PH. You would have to know the exactly amount of additives to add with each water change, as well as constantly watch your tank for any changes and be prepared to fix it when it does happen (because it will). Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > I use stress coat in my tap water to detoxify heavy metal's, this could > help you as well, it also helps detoxify ammonia. Most fish also do not > have to have a certain PH only to live in, I have a PH that is usually > around 6.2-6.4 and my angel's do just fine, I would assume that a > slightly higher PH than 7 should also be just fine if they do well > under 7. > > Amber > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > see if you read all of my post you would see why i said what i said, > > you knew what type fo gravel i have but you didn't see the first > > thing in that paragraph? the pH of the water here is naturally high > > about 7.6 our water has a lot of metals in it and i understand from > > talking to local people that a lot of people lose fish due to metal > > poisoning, so yes by saying we can't change water chemistry you are > > saying that no one here should own angelfish > > again if you read my post you would understand this statement, he > > did not say it directly but it's the same principle > > > > now as for angels, you play know it all, but when i look up angels > > and look at thier specifics they are supposed to be in water > > maintained at a 7.0 pH as are a lot of the south american cichlids > > now weather or not my local people buy from farms that use a higher > > pH or not I have no idea, but i would rather not take the risk and > > find a way to maintian a 7.0 pH even if it means i have to slowly > > delute it with RO or distilled water, if all i do if manage to get > > rid of the metals in the water then so be it because at least it > > will be healthier for the fish i already own, but as for my tap > > water the only fish that would thrive are my African cichlids > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Cortland, Please know that \\Steve// is not saying "no one > > in > > > Louisiana should own angels." At least, I haven't seen him > > specify > > > this anywhere. What he is saying, and what we ALL will advise > > you, > > > is -- its best not to mess with your pH. We are not maintaining > > fish > > > so that we can play with chemistry -- fish will not tolerate wide > > > changes in the chemistry make up of their water, and by messing > > with > > > it, you are inviting changes in it -- especially if you don't > > > understand it. > > > > > > Fish do BEST without the addition of chemicals to their water, > > i.e., > > > you should NEVER add chemicals to your aquarium if you don't have > > to > > > (and unless its a dire emergency, you don't have to). Products > > such > > > as SeaChem's neutral regulator work ONLY in association with one's > > > particular water conditions, and those water conditions are > > different > > > with each individual hobbyist's water -- meaning that the product > > MAY > > > work if it doesn't need to drastically change one's water but will > > > only serve to unsuccessfully combat one's water conditions if > > those > > > conditions are more extreme -- such as yours are! > > > > > > Except for distilled (and rain/snow) water, most ALL other water > > has > > > a buffering capacity (KH, temporary hardness). This is what > > products > > > such as SeaChem's N. R. needs to counteract when attempting to > > change > > > the pH of the water. The more this buffering capacity is reduced, > > > the greater the propensity for it be broken, causing a crash in pH > > > which will be detrimental to you fish. If by chance you did > > > successfully reduce the pH by counteracting your buffering > > capacity -- > > > how would you maintain it at that same pH when doing needed > > weekly > > > partial water changes. You water would be bouncing back to a > > higher > > > pH. You'd have to find the exact amount of SeaChem N. R. to add > > to > > > the exact amount of water being changed at any one time. But as > > this > > > isn't working for you anyway, its a moot point. > > > > > > Water chemistry, when it comes to the safety of the fish, is not > > that > > > easy. Its always best to be satified with the water you have, and > > to > > > the maintain fish which will do well in your water as is. Its > > easier > > > on the fish and its easier on you. > > > > > > Now, as for these Angelfish you want to add, why on earth would > > you > > > want to get your water to neutral??? Your present pH of 7.6 is > > far > > > from being too high. Be advised that Angels will do perfectly > > well > > > at this pH, even up to pH 8.6. Many Angelfish breeders breed > > their > > > fish at pH 7.4 and raise the fry at pH 7.6 as this aids in their > > bone > > > structure. > > > > > > If you're still hung up on your pH, first test your tap water (if > > its > > > the same pH as your tank water, leave it alone). If your tap > > water's > > > pH is lower, which I half-expect (could be wrong of course, but > > test > > > it), look to your Pebble Beach Gravel -- AND REMOVE IT. Depending > > > upon where its "quarried," this often is high in calcium > > carbonates! > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Courtland Jacob" > > > <courtland_jacob@> wrote: > > > > > > > > if that's the case then you're saying no one in louisiana should > > > own > > > > angels, and when it comes to chemistry, it's not playing god, > > > > chemistry is one science humans have owned for a long time, we > > add > > > > chlorine to the water to make it safe for us just to have to > > remove > > > > it to put in our fish tanks, we have to fool wish water > > chemistry > > > > every time we change water or test it > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Angels are a magnificent fish. However, if you do not have the > > > > water > > > > > parameters to keep them, you really cannot keep them. Playing > > god > > > > with > > > > > you water will only humble you. Your Seachem failed to reduce > > the > > > > > buffering capacity of your water, which would reduce the pH. > > The > > > > problem > > > > > with reducing the buffer is twofold. First, you will need to > > do > > > > this > > > > > constantly, and watch it like a hawk. Second, you are likely > > to > > > > break > > > > > the buffer completely, which will lead to a sudden reduction > > of > > > > the pH > > > > > usually by far too much and too quickly to be helpful to any > > fish > > > > in the > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Your best bet is to look for fish that will live happily in > > the > > > > water > > > > > that you already have. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:59 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem > > > > > > > > > > my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have > > > now, > > > > but > > > > > i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to > > neutral, > > > i > > > > > have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't > > > > worked, > > > > > and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and > > > that > > > > > hasn't worked > > > > > > > > > > the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has > > petco > > > > > pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and > > and > > > > > anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped > > > > around > > > > > it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would > > be > > > > > keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could > > suggest > > > > to > > > > > help sove my problem i would appreciate it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33578	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Python gravel cleaner

Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel cleaner can reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even have to unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean the 125 gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have attachments in the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the kit. I ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to clean my tanks (yay!). I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it doesn't suck up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much about it sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel washer has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck up gravel if I don't pay enough attention. I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt deposits after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I soaked it for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to everyone who suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are starting to perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of fin & tail rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly getting better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after work too *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time around to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it right now, if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to look around for the box. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33579	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner

Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and then even 25' extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches every spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental effect on your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the package may say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be prepared to do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the treatment. Thank God for that Python! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel cleaner can reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even have to unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean the 125 gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have attachments in the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the kit. I ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to clean my tanks (yay!). I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it doesn't suck up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much about it sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel washer has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck up gravel if I don't pay enough attention. I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt deposits after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I soaked it for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to everyone who suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are starting to perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of fin & tail rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly getting better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after work too *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time around to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it right now, if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to look around for the box. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 2:35:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33580	From: Walden Nida	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?

A betta will do just fine even with temps in the low 70’s. The only time they need the higher temperatures is to get them in the mood for breeding. Most people think they have to be kept near 80 and there is no reason for it. More bettas a killed from over heating of a heater in a small tank than die from the cold. Another misconception is the temperture must remain constant. This is not true. There is no place on earth where the temperature does not vary from noon to night. This is especially true of fish adapted to live in small shallow water areas like a betta. Walden Nida 2009 IBC convention Chair DFW, Texas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33581	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

I read -- "my pH is stuck at about 7.6," -- from this, I did not read into it that you tap water is naturally pH 7.6 (I AM NOT A MIND READER). What I gathered from your statement is that -- as your tank stands now (with all influences of pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and anchor) -- your aquarium water is stuck at pH 7.6 and that you would appreciate help solving you problem. I am not saying you should not own Angelfish -- READ MY MESSAGE AGAIN!!! Where did you ever get that from????? I in fact said that you don't need to (should not) change your water chemistry, and yet you should still be able to keep Angelfish -- NO PROBLEM! If you do not want to take our advice, be my guest -- GO RIGHT AHEAD AND DO ALL THE MESSING AROUND WITH YOUR WATER THAT YOU WANT. BUT PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!! I am trying to help you, but if you don't appreciate it as I was lead to believe you were going to, I'll refrain from offering you any other advice in the future if you think you know more than us. I really don't know why you even asked if you choose to misinterprete what I told you and insist on wanting to change your water. PLEASE -- DON'T LET ME STOP YOU! Metal,poisoning has nothing to do with pH. While chemicals should always be avoided whenever possible, I did say there were times when they (certain ones) where allowable -- ("unless its a dire emergency" -- do those words ring a bell?) where necessary. There are products on the market that remove or render inert Heavy Metals -- such as SeaChem's Prime which detoxifies heavy metals. That's all you need to use to address this problem -- you don't need to change the pH. No, I am not playing "know it all." That is not my purpose. I'm old enough to know that no one can ever know it all. I am just trying to give you some of my knowledge of over 60 years in the hobby so that you might succeed. I'm not here for any other purpose. Again, if you choose not to believe what I'm trying to tell you, DON'T -- that's your prerogative, but I won't waste my time again. Other have tried to tell you the same thing, but it seems you choose not to believe them either. Why are you here? Do you think we're trying to lie to you for some unknown reason, or that none of us know anything? Yes, Angelfish come from South America. Before I go further, do not believe all you read on these web-sites you look up, to gain info on Angelfish. ANYONE, INCLUDING MICKEY MOUSE, can put up a web site. This does not make them an expert, nor does it mean that their info is not erroneous -- but maybe only partially factual. South America is hugh, and Angelfish are found in numerous locations from the soft neutral headwaters of the Amazon to acid black-water conditions of the Rio Negro, to soft, but MILDLY ALKALINE waters of Venezuela's Orinoco River. Its naive to even think that all these waters are at pH 7.0 or that Angels NEED only -- exactly pH 7.0 water. As you point out, there are a lot of South American Cichlids which "supposed to" be in water maintained at pH 7.0 -- well, actually, many of them really come from soft, more acid water as much (but by far, not all) of their range consists of just such an environment. But even though many others may come from areas where the pH is 7.0 (at times -- DEPENDING UPON THE SEASON), this is a generality. Even their home waters will vary. Some of the best of this country's Discus Breeders will breed their wild fish in acid water (and their domestic Discus in alkaline water), but will raise the fry ALL in ALKALINE water. Again, don't believe me if you choose not to, if you prefer to believe differently. Your African Cichlids, and I presume you mean Rift Lake Cichlids (not West African Cichlids) will do best in alkaline water, although you don't say which lakes' fish you are maintaining. They will even do better in a higher pH, especially Lake Tanganyika fish. There is a hugh difference here though -- Rift Lake Cichlids have evolved over eons in conditions that have remained fairly constant (hard, alkaline water). Its for this reason that they need to have these conditions duplicated, if not identically, than closely (yes, even these fish will do great even though their aquarium water does not exactly match the Lake water. Technically, the African Cichlids which you say are thriving for you (and that's no surprise) should have at least pH 8.2 water (if they're Malawi fish) or closer to pH 9.0 (if they're Tanganyika fish) -- IF you want to match the water they came from, as you seem to feel you must do with the Angels. Know that Angelfish DO NOT come from water that has a constant pH year 'round, as do Rift Lake Cichlids. They are used to a wider variation in pH, not only by season but by locality. Best regards, and lots of luck!, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > see if you read all of my post you would see why i said what i said, > you knew what type fo gravel i have but you didn't see the first > thing in that paragraph? the pH of the water here is naturally high > about 7.6 our water has a lot of metals in it and i understand from > talking to local people that a lot of people lose fish due to metal > poisoning, so yes by saying we can't change water chemistry you are > saying that no one here should own angelfish > again if you read my post you would understand this statement, he > did not say it directly but it's the same principle > > now as for angels, you play know it all, but when i look up angels > and look at thier specifics they are supposed to be in water > maintained at a 7.0 pH as are a lot of the south american cichlids > now weather or not my local people buy from farms that use a higher > pH or not I have no idea, but i would rather not take the risk and > find a way to maintian a 7.0 pH even if it means i have to slowly > delute it with RO or distilled water, if all i do if manage to get > rid of the metals in the water then so be it because at least it > will be healthier for the fish i already own, but as for my tap > water the only fish that would thrive are my African cichlids > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hello Cortland, Please know that \\Steve// is not saying "no one > in > > Louisiana should own angels." At least, I haven't seen him > specify > > this anywhere. What he is saying, and what we ALL will advise > you, > > is -- its best not to mess with your pH. We are not maintaining > fish > > so that we can play with chemistry -- fish will not tolerate wide > > changes in the chemistry make up of their water, and by messing > with > > it, you are inviting changes in it -- especially if you don't > > understand it. > > > > Fish do BEST without the addition of chemicals to their water, > i.e., > > you should NEVER add chemicals to your aquarium if you don't have > to > > (and unless its a dire emergency, you don't have to). Products > such > > as SeaChem's neutral regulator work ONLY in association with one's > > particular water conditions, and those water conditions are > different > > with each individual hobbyist's water -- meaning that the product > MAY > > work if it doesn't need to drastically change one's water but will > > only serve to unsuccessfully combat one's water conditions if > those > > conditions are more extreme -- such as yours are! > > > > Except for distilled (and rain/snow) water, most ALL other water > has > > a buffering capacity (KH, temporary hardness). This is what > products > > such as SeaChem's N. R. needs to counteract when attempting to > change > > the pH of the water. The more this buffering capacity is reduced, > > the greater the propensity for it be broken, causing a crash in pH > > which will be detrimental to you fish. If by chance you did > > successfully reduce the pH by counteracting your buffering > capacity -- > > how would you maintain it at that same pH when doing needed > weekly > > partial water changes. You water would be bouncing back to a > higher > > pH. You'd have to find the exact amount of SeaChem N. R. to add > to > > the exact amount of water being changed at any one time. But as > this > > isn't working for you anyway, its a moot point. > > > > Water chemistry, when it comes to the safety of the fish, is not > that > > easy. Its always best to be satified with the water you have, and > to > > the maintain fish which will do well in your water as is. Its > easier > > on the fish and its easier on you. > > > > Now, as for these Angelfish you want to add, why on earth would > you > > want to get your water to neutral??? Your present pH of 7.6 is > far > > from being too high. Be advised that Angels will do perfectly > well > > at this pH, even up to pH 8.6. Many Angelfish breeders breed > their > > fish at pH 7.4 and raise the fry at pH 7.6 as this aids in their > bone > > structure. > > > > If you're still hung up on your pH, first test your tap water (if > its > > the same pH as your tank water, leave it alone). If your tap > water's > > pH is lower, which I half-expect (could be wrong of course, but > test > > it), look to your Pebble Beach Gravel -- AND REMOVE IT. Depending > > upon where its "quarried," this often is high in calcium > carbonates! > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" > > <courtland_jacob@> wrote: > > > > > > if that's the case then you're saying no one in louisiana should > > own > > > angels, and when it comes to chemistry, it's not playing god, > > > chemistry is one science humans have owned for a long time, we > add > > > chlorine to the water to make it safe for us just to have to > remove > > > it to put in our fish tanks, we have to fool wish water > chemistry > > > every time we change water or test it > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Angels are a magnificent fish. However, if you do not have the > > > water > > > > parameters to keep them, you really cannot keep them. Playing > god > > > with > > > > you water will only humble you. Your Seachem failed to reduce > the > > > > buffering capacity of your water, which would reduce the pH. > The > > > problem > > > > with reducing the buffer is twofold. First, you will need to > do > > > this > > > > constantly, and watch it like a hawk. Second, you are likely > to > > > break > > > > the buffer completely, which will lead to a sudden reduction > of > > > the pH > > > > usually by far too much and too quickly to be helpful to any > fish > > > in the > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > Your best bet is to look for fish that will live happily in > the > > > water > > > > that you already have. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:59 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem > > > > > > > > my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have > > now, > > > but > > > > i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to > neutral, > > i > > > > have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't > > > worked, > > > > and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and > > that > > > > hasn't worked > > > > > > > > the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has > petco > > > > pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and > and > > > > anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped > > > around > > > > it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would > be > > > > keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could > suggest > > > to > > > > help sove my problem i would appreciate it > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33582	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat

Alina, Ray has pretty much told you what you need to know. Treatment for ich will last from 10-14 days. Do be aware of fish that may have a high oxygen requirement when treating for ich. You may need to provide extra aeration in such cases. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 7:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich and heat Hi Ray, Today would be day three of my fish-in-a-hottub ich removal treatment. Everyone is fine. I have a couple of questions: Temp has been steadily at 88. I see no new signs of Ich, tho the two or three fish that have it still have some white spots. What can I expect regarding those? I assume those will burst and fall off, and eventually, I will see no more white spots. Does it take a long time to see no more of the white spots? Finally, how long do you think I can safely keep up this temperature? Like I said, they're all pretty happy, except the ichy ones who are clearly uncomfortable. Let me know what you experience has been. Thanks. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Alina, No need to raise the temperature to 90 o (and further > stress your fish), unless you feel you have one of the more virulent > forms of Ich. The common Ich (the most prevalent form by far) cannot > reproduce above 86 o. As long as you have an accurate thermometer, > you need to raise the temperature only to at least 86 o. If you're > not sure of its accuracy, raise it to 87 o to make sure. As the Ich > drops off of the fish, as part of its cycle, the Ich spores that have > fallen to the bottom will no longer be able to produce new trophonts > to re-infect your fish. > > This process will take some time, as some of the new Ich now may yet > find a host (fish) in the completion of its cycle, although at this > temperate it will be weakened. Increased aeration will help in > preventing any Ich from finding a host. Although not normally > recommended, some Stress Coat may be added to the tank in lieu of > salt to help promote a heavier slime coat on the fish. This too will > help prevent any Ich from being able to gain a foothold. Maintain 86 > o until three days after you see no further signs of Ich. Ich's > cycle takes 48 hours at this temperature and you want o give it > another 24 hours to cover any last hatchers. Do not bother will salt > baths for Ich. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > A week ago one of my fish clearly had Ich. I started treating the > > tank with salt but after one dosage, I had a Cory and a mini Placo > in > > stress. So I reduced the sality level pretty much down to nothing > > thru partial water changes. They're better but the Ich isn't. > > > > I've been reading a lot about using heat only to kill Ich. I > realize > > I could have some super strong strain, but I've got nothing to lose > > right now. I'm slowly raising temps to 90 (or at least 86F) and > > hoping to maintain it for the next week to see what happens. > > > > I'm starting to think it's hopeless. And I guess I want to save > > everybody in the tank. > > > > Has anyone just used heat successfully? Several books mention this > as > > a viable method. Some also suggest giving a separate "salt bath" to > > fish that can tolerate the salt. > > > > As always, your suggestions, thoughts, experiences, are invaluable. > > Let me know what you guys think. > > > > Alina > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33583	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: pH problem

_Pterophyllum scalare_ (most commonly seen species) is listed as a pH of 6.0-8.0, and is normally found in waters at the lower end of the range. _Pterophyllum altum_ (being seen more and more, but still relatively rare) is listed as a pH of 4.8 to 6.2. _Pterophyllum leopoldi_ (seldom seen in the hobby) is listed with varying ranges, depending on the source, with a pH of 6.0-7.5. Most of the references I found on this fish listing a pH tended toward the low side, below 7.0. Frankly I was surprised for the range of _P. scalare_, the commonest angel fish. I had always thought, and was probably taught by my father who did raise them when I was but a young fry, way too many years ago. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pH problem I read -- "my pH is stuck at about 7.6," -- from this, I did not read into it that you tap water is naturally pH 7.6 (I AM NOT A MIND READER). What I gathered from your statement is that -- as your tank stands now (with all influences of pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and anchor) -- your aquarium water is stuck at pH 7.6 and that you would appreciate help solving you problem. I am not saying you should not own Angelfish -- READ MY MESSAGE AGAIN!!! Where did you ever get that from????? I in fact said that you don't need to (should not) change your water chemistry, and yet you should still be able to keep Angelfish -- NO PROBLEM! If you do not want to take our advice, be my guest -- GO RIGHT AHEAD AND DO ALL THE MESSING AROUND WITH YOUR WATER THAT YOU WANT. BUT PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!! I am trying to help you, but if you don't appreciate it as I was lead to believe you were going to, I'll refrain from offering you any other advice in the future if you think you know more than us. I really don't know why you even asked if you choose to misinterprete what I told you and insist on wanting to change your water. PLEASE -- DON'T LET ME STOP YOU! Metal,poisoning has nothing to do with pH. While chemicals should always be avoided whenever possible, I did say there were times when they (certain ones) where allowable -- ("unless its a dire emergency" -- do those words ring a bell?) where necessary. There are products on the market that remove or render inert Heavy Metals -- such as SeaChem's Prime which detoxifies heavy metals. That's all you need to use to address this problem -- you don't need to change the pH. No, I am not playing "know it all." That is not my purpose. I'm old enough to know that no one can ever know it all. I am just trying to give you some of my knowledge of over 60 years in the hobby so that you might succeed. I'm not here for any other purpose. Again, if you choose not to believe what I'm trying to tell you, DON'T -- that's your prerogative, but I won't waste my time again. Other have tried to tell you the same thing, but it seems you choose not to believe them either. Why are you here? Do you think we're trying to lie to you for some unknown reason, or that none of us know anything? Yes, Angelfish come from South America. Before I go further, do not believe all you read on these web-sites you look up, to gain info on Angelfish. ANYONE, INCLUDING MICKEY MOUSE, can put up a web site. This does not make them an expert, nor does it mean that their info is not erroneous -- but maybe only partially factual. South America is hugh, and Angelfish are found in numerous locations from the soft neutral headwaters of the Amazon to acid black-water conditions of the Rio Negro, to soft, but MILDLY ALKALINE waters of Venezuela's Orinoco River. Its naive to even think that all these waters are at pH 7.0 or that Angels NEED only -- exactly pH 7.0 water. As you point out, there are a lot of South American Cichlids which "supposed to" be in water maintained at pH 7.0 -- well, actually, many of them really come from soft, more acid water as much (but by far, not all) of their range consists of just such an environment. But even though many others may come from areas where the pH is 7.0 (at times -- DEPENDING UPON THE SEASON), this is a generality. Even their home waters will vary. Some of the best of this country's Discus Breeders will breed their wild fish in acid water (and their domestic Discus in alkaline water), but will raise the fry ALL in ALKALINE water. Again, don't believe me if you choose not to, if you prefer to believe differently. Your African Cichlids, and I presume you mean Rift Lake Cichlids (not West African Cichlids) will do best in alkaline water, although you don't say which lakes' fish you are maintaining. They will even do better in a higher pH, especially Lake Tanganyika fish. There is a hugh difference here though -- Rift Lake Cichlids have evolved over eons in conditions that have remained fairly constant (hard, alkaline water). Its for this reason that they need to have these conditions duplicated, if not identically, than closely (yes, even these fish will do great even though their aquarium water does not exactly match the Lake water. Technically, the African Cichlids which you say are thriving for you (and that's no surprise) should have at least pH 8.2 water (if they're Malawi fish) or closer to pH 9.0 (if they're Tanganyika fish) -- IF you want to match the water they came from, as you seem to feel you must do with the Angels. Know that Angelfish DO NOT come from water that has a constant pH year 'round, as do Rift Lake Cichlids. They are used to a wider variation in pH, not only by season but by locality. Best regards, and lots of luck!, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > see if you read all of my post you would see why i said what i said, > you knew what type fo gravel i have but you didn't see the first > thing in that paragraph? the pH of the water here is naturally high > about 7.6 our water has a lot of metals in it and i understand from > talking to local people that a lot of people lose fish due to metal > poisoning, so yes by saying we can't change water chemistry you are > saying that no one here should own angelfish > again if you read my post you would understand this statement, he > did not say it directly but it's the same principle > > now as for angels, you play know it all, but when i look up angels > and look at thier specifics they are supposed to be in water > maintained at a 7.0 pH as are a lot of the south american cichlids > now weather or not my local people buy from farms that use a higher > pH or not I have no idea, but i would rather not take the risk and > find a way to maintian a 7.0 pH even if it means i have to slowly > delute it with RO or distilled water, if all i do if manage to get > rid of the metals in the water then so be it because at least it > will be healthier for the fish i already own, but as for my tap > water the only fish that would thrive are my African cichlids > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hello Cortland, Please know that \\Steve// is not saying "no one > in > > Louisiana should own angels." At least, I haven't seen him > specify > > this anywhere. What he is saying, and what we ALL will advise > you, > > is -- its best not to mess with your pH. We are not maintaining > fish > > so that we can play with chemistry -- fish will not tolerate wide > > changes in the chemistry make up of their water, and by messing > with > > it, you are inviting changes in it -- especially if you don't > > understand it. > > > > Fish do BEST without the addition of chemicals to their water, > i.e., > > you should NEVER add chemicals to your aquarium if you don't have > to > > (and unless its a dire emergency, you don't have to). Products > such > > as SeaChem's neutral regulator work ONLY in association with one's > > particular water conditions, and those water conditions are > different > > with each individual hobbyist's water -- meaning that the product > MAY > > work if it doesn't need to drastically change one's water but will > > only serve to unsuccessfully combat one's water conditions if > those > > conditions are more extreme -- such as yours are! > > > > Except for distilled (and rain/snow) water, most ALL other water > has > > a buffering capacity (KH, temporary hardness). This is what > products > > such as SeaChem's N. R. needs to counteract when attempting to > change > > the pH of the water. The more this buffering capacity is reduced, > > the greater the propensity for it be broken, causing a crash in pH > > which will be detrimental to you fish. If by chance you did > > successfully reduce the pH by counteracting your buffering > capacity -- > > how would you maintain it at that same pH when doing needed > weekly > > partial water changes. You water would be bouncing back to a > higher > > pH. You'd have to find the exact amount of SeaChem N. R. to add > to > > the exact amount of water being changed at any one time. But as > this > > isn't working for you anyway, its a moot point. > > > > Water chemistry, when it comes to the safety of the fish, is not > that > > easy. Its always best to be satified with the water you have, and > to > > the maintain fish which will do well in your water as is. Its > easier > > on the fish and its easier on you. > > > > Now, as for these Angelfish you want to add, why on earth would > you > > want to get your water to neutral??? Your present pH of 7.6 is > far > > from being too high. Be advised that Angels will do perfectly > well > > at this pH, even up to pH 8.6. Many Angelfish breeders breed > their > > fish at pH 7.4 and raise the fry at pH 7.6 as this aids in their > bone > > structure. > > > > If you're still hung up on your pH, first test your tap water (if > its > > the same pH as your tank water, leave it alone). If your tap > water's > > pH is lower, which I half-expect (could be wrong of course, but > test > > it), look to your Pebble Beach Gravel -- AND REMOVE IT. Depending > > upon where its "quarried," this often is high in calcium > carbonates! > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" > > <courtland_jacob@> wrote: > > > > > > if that's the case then you're saying no one in louisiana should > > own > > > angels, and when it comes to chemistry, it's not playing god, > > > chemistry is one science humans have owned for a long time, we > add > > > chlorine to the water to make it safe for us just to have to > remove > > > it to put in our fish tanks, we have to fool wish water > chemistry > > > every time we change water or test it > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Angels are a magnificent fish. However, if you do not have the > > > water > > > > parameters to keep them, you really cannot keep them. Playing > god > > > with > > > > you water will only humble you. Your Seachem failed to reduce > the > > > > buffering capacity of your water, which would reduce the pH. > The > > > problem > > > > with reducing the buffer is twofold. First, you will need to > do > > > this > > > > constantly, and watch it like a hawk. Second, you are likely > to > > > break > > > > the buffer completely, which will lead to a sudden reduction > of > > > the pH > > > > usually by far too much and too quickly to be helpful to any > fish > > > in the > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > Your best bet is to look for fish that will live happily in > the > > > water > > > > that you already have. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:59 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH problem > > > > > > > > my pH is stuck at about 7.6 which is fine for the fish i have > > now, > > > but > > > > i want to add some angels and i can't seem to get it to > neutral, > > i > > > > have been using the seachem neautral regulator which hasn't > > > worked, > > > > and also i used distilled water when doing water changes, and > > that > > > > hasn't worked > > > > > > > > the local water is natually pretty high in pH, the tank has > petco > > > > pebble beach gravel, black slate, fake plants, sandstone and > and > > > > anchor (the one made for aquarium decor with the chain wrapped > > > around > > > > it and plants on it) i don't think any of these things would > be > > > > keeping the pH high. if there is anyhting else you could > suggest > > > to > > > > help sove my problem i would appreciate it > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33584	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Lovers TV

That's pretty good. I have a new appreciation for cichlids. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Lovers TV Somebody needs to record it and YouTube it. I don't subscribe to NGC down here. Ooops.. I spoke too soon. Somebody already did. Part 1 starts here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI1t6d1zaJw It looks like it's 7 parts all together, all from the same YouTuber... HarryB1959. Is that our Harry? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Lovers TV Donna, Thanks for sharing that here with us. Everyone who can watch this should watch it. it is worth your time to see it. Watching the parental care that goes on with the Cichlids in this documentary is fascinating. I know it is a major factor in why I keep Cichlids. I went out and bought this after I saw it. Two Thumbs Up. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 3:04 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Lovers TV The National Geographic Documentary Lake Tanganyika - Jewel of the Rift is going to air this Friday November 28th at 10am (eastern time I am assuming) according to this webpage: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/jewel-of-the-rift-0480/Overvie <http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/jewel-of-the-rift-0480/Overvi e> w [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 12:08:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 1:37:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33585	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?

Walden, While I recognize that you are in some kind of leadership capacity with the IBC (according to your sig), I don't think we can compare our tank kept fish.. or worse, bowl kept fish... with wild fish to every degree unless we were trying to mimic those natural habitats. Wild fish have a much hardier immune system for the ones that survive.. especially wild Betta's compared to the mass-bred, loosely culled and poorly raised retail Betta's that the majority of people might have in the hobby. These fish have never had to develop much of an immune system and due to the inbreeding that is done to develop their morphed finnage, their immune systems falter even further. Not to mention the deplorable conditions they are kept in once they go into the wholesale and retail levels. Further, their parents are likely dosed with various steroids and medicines which could make the fish build up a resistance to these meds when they might be needed later on. Once we get them to our homes, we should strive to provide them the best "homes" that we can.. not say, well "wild Betta's can handle large temperature swings". The same thing goes for fancy goldfish compared to their more natural long-bodied counterparts. Pond kept common goldfish are much hardier than tank kept fancy goldfish. They live much longer and have very few of the health problems that fancy goldfish have... once again, due to the inbreeding that was done to develop the fancy goldfish traits and finnage. I'll concur that someone trying to heat up a small vase or bowl is a risky task but when talking about 5G and larger where a standard heater (25W+) with a thermostat can be utilized, there should not be as much risk involved unless the heater malfunctions... which doesn't happen often. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walden Nida Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ? A betta will do just fine even with temps in the low 70's. The only time they need the higher temperatures is to get them in the mood for breeding. Most people think they have to be kept near 80 and there is no reason for it. More bettas a killed from over heating of a heater in a small tank than die from the cold. Another misconception is the temperture must remain constant. This is not true. There is no place on earth where the temperature does not vary from noon to night. This is especially true of fish adapted to live in small shallow water areas like a betta. Walden Nida 2009 IBC convention Chair DFW, Texas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 9:34:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33586	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner

Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets out of the box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS suggested for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still haven't moved into the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't find him, LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the bacteria (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make sure it didn't mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, but 2 doses (1 dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up and as long as I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far all the other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's that I'm still watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching to melafix since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used hot water hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go down and see how it's doing shortly. Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and then > even 25' > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches every spot I > need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental effect on your > nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the package may say) > so keep > an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be prepared to do PWC's to keep > them at low enough levels during the treatment. Thank God for that Python! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel cleaner can > reach > anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even have to unhook it from > one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean the 125 gallon. Not sure how > long the hose is, it doesn't have attachments in the middle so it must > be a > standard length that comes with the kit. I ordered the quick-lock > attachment > so it'll be even easier to clean my tanks (yay!). > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it doesn't suck up > the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much about it sucking > up a > stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel washer has more sucking > power than the python and it will even suck up gravel if I don't pay > enough > attention. > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt deposits > after > work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I soaked it for 24 > hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to everyone who suggested it > (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are starting to > perk up > a little, they were the only ones showing signs of fin & tail rot and > after > some meds and water changes they're slowly getting better. I'm out of > melafix now and need to get some after work too *makes a mental note*. I > used a stronger antibiotic this time around to get them better, if I knew > where the box was I'd name it right now, if anyone is curious I'll post > after work when I have time to look around for the box. > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081124-0, 11/24/2008 > Tested on: 11/25/2008 2:35:41 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33587	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: biocube

Any thoughts on the BioCube? I have one, but I'm not sure I love it. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33588	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner

I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather sprayed or poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one pane at a time by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the vinegar, then scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long depends on how bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only make it too weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually around 5% solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so it's already diluted with water. When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to follow the directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not treating them fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of bacteria that might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these bacteria will build up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. This is how the cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" flying ones down here in N'Awlins. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets out of the box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS suggested for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still haven't moved into the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't find him, LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the bacteria (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make sure it didn't mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, but 2 doses (1 dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up and as long as I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far all the other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's that I'm still watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching to melafix since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used hot water hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go down and see how it's doing shortly. Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and then > even 25' > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches every > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental effect on > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the package may > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be prepared to > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the treatment. Thank > God for that Python! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel cleaner can > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even have to > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean the 125 > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have attachments in > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the kit. I > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to clean my > tanks (yay!). > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it doesn't suck > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much about it > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel washer > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck up gravel > if I don't pay enough attention. > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt deposits > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I soaked it > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to everyone who > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are starting to > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of fin & tail > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly getting > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after work too > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time around > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it right now, > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to look > around for the box. > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 9:52:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33589	From: Lisa	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Tank cycle question

Just out of general curiosity. What is the best time for cycleing a tank? My LFS tells me 4 – 5 weeks. But then some internet sources say it only takes a couple of days. Is this subject to the overall size of the tank? Also. Some sites state that it is ok to SLOWLY and gradually (over a few weeks) add hardy fish. (danios etc ) Two days after the tank is filled with treated water. My tank has been up a week now, and I have danios in there. They both seem healthy so far. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33590	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: fish don't like the heat

Well, I got my tank up to about 84 degrees F (see previous post - max temp was 80 F) to facilitate ich treatment, and the platys don't like it. At 80 degrees and up they appear starved for oxygen; one of them sits lethargically on the bottom, the other sticks close to the surface. I have an airstone in the tank, but it may be causing more trouble than it's worth - there are logistical problems with the biocube, and the current is so strong these fish are getting tossed around in their weakened condition. Actually, there were no visible signs of ich early this morning (even before the heat was fixed), so I was only planning to continue the treatment for another two days - do I need heat for this part? When the heat was around 78 degrees, they looked perky as could be. Thanks for all prior comments - keep 'em coming! Bonnie B

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33591	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question

The length of time it takes to cycle a tank varies quite a bit. Ballpark, it is 4-8 weeks. However, if you add the bacteria necessary for the cycle by way of an established filter, Dr. Tim's One and Only, gravel from an established tank, this ballpark figure can be reduced depending on the load in the tank (the amount of ammonia to process). The best way to cycle a tank is with what is called a fishless cycle. At the completion of this cycle, you can add a full load of fish to the tank without any problem. In this case you supply the ammonia to the tune of maintaining a level of 5 ppm at the start of each 24 hr period during the cycle, adding ammonia each day to bring the level back to 5 ppm. When the ammonia is depleted each day--0 ppm--and the nitrites also test to 0, your cycle has been established, and you can add your fish. The way your store has you doing the cycle will, at best, shorten the lives of the fish used to cycle the tank, and it may kill them outright. Then, once you have a cycle established, you need to add new residents slowly, and deal with what is called a mini-cycle, the period where the water has a low reading of ammonia and/or nitrites, while the bacterial colonies expand to handle the additional load. There are other drawbacks as well, especially if you are dealing with territorial fish. In this case, the cycle is not truly established for the given fish load until the last fish has been added and the bacterial colonies have adjusted, which can be several months. As you can deduce from the above discussion, the definitive and true answer is -- it depends. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank cycle question Just out of general curiosity. What is the best time for cycleing a tank? My LFS tells me 4 - 5 weeks. But then some internet sources say it only takes a couple of days. Is this subject to the overall size of the tank? Also. Some sites state that it is ok to SLOWLY and gradually (over a few weeks) add hardy fish. (danios etc...) Two days after the tank is filled with treated water. My tank has been up a week now, and I have danios in there. They both seem healthy so far. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33592	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question

A tank can be instantly cycled if using a product like Dr. Tim's One And Only. Or if transferring enough cycled filter media, gravel, etc. from a cycled tank to a new tank, in sufficient mass to handle the bioload being put in the new tank. When fishless cycling, using the plain ammonia method, and starting from scratch, it takes 4-8 weeks from all of the reports I've read. Usually, the longer 8 week periods were due to errors being made causing the fishless cycle to stall (too much ammonia added or too low KH level and pH crash, temperature and/or low O2 levels, etc.). When fishless cycling, using the plain ammonia and seeding the filter with some cycled media, I've seen the process completed in 7-10 days to get the tank fishless cycled up to 4-5ppm of ammonia per day.. which is the range you need to add a full bioload of fish to the tank. When cycling with fish, it could take months and months.. even a year, depending on the size of the tank, to get the tank up to the point where it has a full bioload since you can only add a couple of fish at a time, give it several weeks to two months to go through the cycle, then add a couple of more new fish, give it several more weeks, add a couple more fish, etc., etc... and each time you add a couple of new fish, you have to go through the process of quarantining the new fish for a couple of weeks before adding them to your main tank.. or risk infecting your main tank with a new pathogen each time. Plus, you will be subjecting these fish to mini-cycles over and over and over each time you add more fish and these constant mini-cycles will stress the fish making them more susceptible to health issues. So.. the question is.. do you want to fishless cycle, using Dr. Tim's One And Only for $15.00 and have the tank ready for a full bioload the next day... or do you want to fishless cycle with plain ammonia for $1.00 and have the tank ready for a full bioload in around four weeks.... or do you want to cycle with fish and take up to a year to have the tank ready for a full bioload and have all the quarantine and potential health issues dragged out over the course of that long period of time? Remember, whether you have a 10G tank or a 100G tank, if you only have two zebra danios in the tank, it will only be cycled for two zebra danios. Each time you add more fish, the tank will have to go through a mini-cycle period until the N-bacteria have built up a larger colony to handle the larger bioload of the added fish. For a 10G tank, adding a few fish at a time, it will only be a couple of mini-cycles and the 10G tank will have a full bioload. With a 100G tank, adding a few fish at a time, it will take a year or more to fill the tank with a full bioload of fish. The difference is that the two fish in a 10G tank will have 1/10th the water volume so the ammonia/nitrite spikes will be 10 times higher than the same cycling bioload of the two fish in a 100G tank. Two zebra danios may not even realize there is an ammonia level in a 100G tank.. if you are testing, you may not get a reading depending on the accuracy of the test kit... but even if the ammonia level is only 0.001ppm, the nitrifying bacteria will at least start building their colonies to handle that small amount and after 4-6 weeks, you'll at least have a starter colony of N-bacteria for when you add the next batch of fish. When all is said and done.. it's a heck of a lot easier and safer for you and your fish to use Dr. Tim's One And Only. The next best option is fishless cycling with the plain ammonia. Cycling With Fish is NEVER recommended now that these safer and more humane options are now available. People need to start dragging their LFS owners into the 21st Century... even if it means dragging them kicking and screaming... or rather gurgling with their heads shoved down in a fish bowl. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank cycle question Just out of general curiosity. What is the best time for cycleing a tank? My LFS tells me 4 - 5 weeks. But then some internet sources say it only takes a couple of days. Is this subject to the overall size of the tank? Also. Some sites state that it is ok to SLOWLY and gradually (over a few weeks) add hardy fish. (danios etc.) Two days after the tank is filled with treated water. My tank has been up a week now, and I have danios in there. They both seem healthy so far. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 10:57:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33593	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: fish don't like the heat

Bonnie, And I suppose you look your perky best when you come down with a cold, right? Bounce right out of bed bright and early, ready to take on the day until well past midnight. What? You don't? Well, same for your fish. They are not feeling well, and it will show, as you are seeing. You need to give them the full course of treatment so that they recover and the ich is gone. Once none of the fish show any signs of ich, they need at least three more days of treatment to ensure the ich is really gone. If you stop too soon, the ich will return, and your fish will be the worse for it, since they have not had the time to recover from the initial bout. As for you, don't give your body enough rest and sleep to recover, as well as a lot of liquids and whatever your secrets you have to treat a cold, it will hang in there for much longer than the normal 7-10 days. Believe me, I know. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fish don't like the heat Well, I got my tank up to about 84 degrees F (see previous post - max temp was 80 F) to facilitate ich treatment, and the platys don't like it. At 80 degrees and up they appear starved for oxygen; one of them sits lethargically on the bottom, the other sticks close to the surface. I have an airstone in the tank, but it may be causing more trouble than it's worth - there are logistical problems with the biocube, and the current is so strong these fish are getting tossed around in their weakened condition. Actually, there were no visible signs of ich early this morning (even before the heat was fixed), so I was only planning to continue the treatment for another two days - do I need heat for this part? When the heat was around 78 degrees, they looked perky as could be. Thanks for all prior comments - keep 'em coming! Bonnie B

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33594	From: Lisa	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question

Ok. So if i were to go and buy say...5 platies next week, that would decrease the cycle time because there is more amonia to deal with? If over the space of 5 weeks, i gradually add all the intended fish i wish to have, then the bioload would adjust accordingly and the filter medium would develop the neccecery bacteria? And i already have 2 danios, 2 white clouds and 5? madakas in there. The tank has been up a week, and so far they're all happy and healthy. The largest of them all barely reaching 1 inch in length Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question

Nope. The only thing now, with "cycling with fish", that would decrease the cycling time would be the addition of some cycled filter media, gravel, etc., into the un-cycled tank or using Dr. Tim's One And Only. If you were to add more fish, it would only raise the ammonia level... but it would still take the 4-8 weeks to complete the cycle... in the tank until there are enough nitrifying bacteria colonies to handle consuming that ammonia level. They would convert the ammonia to nitrite. Then a second colony of nitrite eating bacteria would have to grow to handle that level of nitrite. Once this happens, the ammonia and nitrite levels would drop to 0.0ppm and the nitrate level would slow climb and this is not very toxic to FW fish so it can be easily kept below 40ppm or even 20ppm by doing regular 25% PWC's. What you need to start doing, if you aren't already, is testing the water for ammonia every day or every other day and logging the test results. Also start checking your nitrite levels every day or every other day and log those numbers. Post your numbers here and we can give you a better analysis.. something like this: Day 1 - Ammonia - 0.0; Nitrite - 0.0 (if you have other test results like pH, temperature, etc., you could post them also but mainly the ammonia and nitrite for now) Day 2 - Ammonia - 0.0; Nitrite - 0.0; pH - ; Temp - Day 3 - Ammonia - 0.1; Nitrite - 0.0 Day 4 - Ammonia - 0.1; Nitrite - 0.0 So on and so forth. Copy/paste the current days into a post when you are adding additional days. In your case, start with Day 7 or whatever day it is and give us the current numbers. You should really take one or both of the FREE online fish keeping tutorials which will walk you step-by-step through all of these basics of fish keeping. If you go to my blog, on the "A to Z Of Fishkeeping" page, you'll see the links to these two tutorials in one of the first few paragraphs on that page. You'll also see links to more detailed articles about "Cycling With Fish" and "Fishless Cycling" to help try and explain these processes and "The Nitrogen Cycle" to you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank cycle question Ok. So if i were to go and buy say...5 platies next week, that would decrease the cycle time because there is more amonia to deal with? If over the space of 5 weeks, i gradually add all the intended fish i wish to have, then the bioload would adjust accordingly and the filter medium would develop the neccecery bacteria? And i already have 2 danios, 2 white clouds and 5? madakas in there. The tank has been up a week, and so far they're all happy and healthy. The largest of them all barely reaching 1 inch in length Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 11:57:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33596	From: Walden Nida	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?

The fish from the local pet store is not that far removed from the wild. Most of them have been raised in Thailand. They have been spawned in outdoor vats and raised in small containers. The fish will live longer at lower temperatures as it metabolism slows. They have already lived in water at or near 100 to temps in the 60’s. They are tough fish and do quite well or even better without the heater. I have raised thousands of bettas and through the years have learned what parameters the fish do best. The most important thing is clean water and good food. This is far more important than a heater. I have seen bettas raised out side where the water temps were over 100 and I have also seen them at temps in the 50’s and the fish did quite well under both extremes. If tannins are added to the water and it is changed daily with plenty of good food the fish will not be bothered by disease. Wally 2009 IBC Convention Chair DFW, TX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?

Well... I'll beg to differ with you as far as them being "not that far removed", when comparing the photos I've seen of wild Betta's compared to the often poorly kept and inbred fancy variety of the species available at the local PetsMart, PetCo, Wal-Mart and even my LFS. I know that you already know this, but for others reading, here are a series of images of "wild" Bettas (male and female in this first image)... http://www.calypso.org.uk/Photolibrary/33%20Asian%20Freshwater%20Species/ima ges%5CWild%20Betta%20splendens%20990%20168.jpg http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/aquarium/betta_splendens2_x.jpg http://www.derwentkoiandtropicals.co.uk/photos/Communiy/Betta-splendens-3.jp g And here are the inbred specimens with the fancy colors and finnage that are found in the stores... http://www.derwentkoiandtropicals.co.uk/photos/Communiy/moon-tail-betta-2.jp g http://www.derwentkoiandtropicals.co.uk/photos/Communiy/betta-splendens-male .jpg http://www.bettanetwork.com/img/Red_male_Plakat.jpg http://www.petpig.com/fish/fish/Betta_splendens081.jpg There's a HUGE difference between natural/wild Betta's and their "fancy" inbred farm-raised counterparts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walden Nida Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ? The fish from the local pet store is not that far removed from the wild. Most of them have been raised in Thailand. They have been spawned in outdoor vats and raised in small containers. The fish will live longer at lower temperatures as it metabolism slows. They have already lived in water at or near 100 to temps in the 60's. They are tough fish and do quite well or even better without the heater. I have raised thousands of bettas and through the years have learned what parameters the fish do best. The most important thing is clean water and good food. This is far more important than a heater. I have seen bettas raised out side where the water temps were over 100 and I have also seen them at temps in the 50's and the fish did quite well under both extremes. If tannins are added to the water and it is changed daily with plenty of good food the fish will not be bothered by disease. Wally 2009 IBC Convention Chair DFW, TX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 12:42:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33598	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?

I have kept halfmoon bettas in 96oz containers without heat in and the water has gone down to mid to low 60's s it was around 40 in the house with no problem. Even some of my other fish licorice and chocolate gouramis, Have gone down to 65. I have kept kilies and down to the same temps. A good diet and good water quality goes a long way. As long as extremes are avoided fish even domesticated fish can handle a wide variety of temps. Joey **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33599	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?

And.. just to dot my i's and cross my t's.. here is what is listed in the FAQ's of the IBC official website... "... Proper water temperature is important and most Betta keepers keep their fish at 76-78 deg F...." From this page... http://www.ibcbettas.org/faq.htm FAQ number 3. - At what temperature should I keep my Betta? Bettas will do best if their environment duplicates conditions from their original habitat. The fish evolved in the rice paddy and back waters of Southeast Asian rivers and are tropical water temperatures in the 80-85 deg F range, and very humid. Here in the U.S. our outside air doesn't normally come close to matching the tropical conditions but Bettas have been kept and bred for years and appear to do well in a variety of water conditions. Proper water temperature is important and most Betta keepers keep their fish at 76-78 deg F. And to put in an additional plug for your 2009 IBC Convention.. here's the link for more info.. http://www.ibc2009.info/ And for any Betta keepers out there.. here's a FREE 48 page e-Book available from the main IBC site.. "How to Entertain Your Betta Fish" (PDF-Book, hard copy available) by Paul Toth, illustrations Allan Wong http://www3.telus.net/starthere/bettabook/ (Click the Download link... then again on the next page.. or just click here...) http://www3.telus.net/starthere/bettabook/pdf/HowToEntertainYourBettaFish.pd f Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walden Nida Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ? The fish from the local pet store is not that far removed from the wild. Most of them have been raised in Thailand. They have been spawned in outdoor vats and raised in small containers. The fish will live longer at lower temperatures as it metabolism slows. They have already lived in water at or near 100 to temps in the 60's. They are tough fish and do quite well or even better without the heater. I have raised thousands of bettas and through the years have learned what parameters the fish do best. The most important thing is clean water and good food. This is far more important than a heater. I have seen bettas raised out side where the water temps were over 100 and I have also seen them at temps in the 50's and the fish did quite well under both extremes. If tannins are added to the water and it is changed daily with plenty of good food the fish will not be bothered by disease. Wally 2009 IBC Convention Chair DFW, TX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 1:04:00 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33600	From: Lisa	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question - Log resaults

I already started to log the cycle. So after one week and a day, here are the resaults... Niterite - 0ppm Niterate - 0ppm Hardness - 75ppm Chlorine - 0ppm Alkalinity - 80 Ph - 6.8 I use dip sticks which test all six at once, and since starting the tank cycleing 8 days ago, i have tested every day. The resaults have not changed. The danios are still going strong, and so far there has only been a fatality of two of the madakas, whixh i believe were already weak from age, and very skinny... I will update the log's resaults again on Sunday when i tally any changes. If there are any.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33601	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner

Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water and then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your mineral deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though this is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a point where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain water in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked paper towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in direct contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be able to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it works. Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down to ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not run off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a while to give it time to act. As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a gram- positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for the fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin will also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER case of incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If you still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below 7.5) or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised by the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather sprayed or > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one pane at a time > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the vinegar, then > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long depends on how > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only make it too > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually around 5% > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so it's already > diluted with water. > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to follow the > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not treating them > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of bacteria that > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these bacteria will build > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. This is how the > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" flying ones down > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets out of the > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS suggested > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still haven't moved into > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't find him, > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the bacteria > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make sure it didn't > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, but 2 doses (1 > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up and as long as > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far all the > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's that I'm still > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching to melafix > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used hot water > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go down and see > how it's doing shortly. > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and then > > even 25' > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches every > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental effect on > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the package may > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be prepared to > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the treatment. Thank > > God for that Python! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel cleaner can > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even have to > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean the 125 > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have attachments in > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the kit. I > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to clean my > > tanks (yay!). > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it doesn't suck > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much about it > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel washer > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck up gravel > > if I don't pay enough attention. > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt deposits > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I soaked it > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to everyone who > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are starting to > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of fin & tail > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly getting > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after work too > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time around > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it right now, > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to look > > around for the box. > > > > Amber > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 > Tested on: 11/25/2008 9:52:58 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33602	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question - Log resaults

The most important measurement, at this time, is not included in your listing. What is the ammonia level in your tank? Also, you should purchase a "real" test kit, one of the so called master kits that will include tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH. The test strips can be rather unreliable since their accuracy can be affected by age, light, heat, and humidity. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 2:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank cycle question - Log resaults I already started to log the cycle. So after one week and a day, here are the resaults... Niterite - 0ppm Niterate - 0ppm Hardness - 75ppm Chlorine - 0ppm Alkalinity - 80 Ph - 6.8 I use dip sticks which test all six at once, and since starting the tank cycleing 8 days ago, i have tested every day. The resaults have not changed. The danios are still going strong, and so far there has only been a fatality of two of the madakas, whixh i believe were already weak from age, and very skinny... I will update the log's resaults again on Sunday when i tally any changes. If there are any.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33603	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question

As I was about to mention, before \\Steve// brought this to your attention, you are missing the results for your ammonia -- one of the most important parameters you need to monitor. But besides that, while you 2 Danios, 2 White Clouds and 5 Medakas may be happy and healthy so far, after ONLY one week (as might be expected), you need to be aware that during a cycle ammonia will be the first to peak at around ten (10) days. Your fish may not be feeling the full effect of this yet. Without ammonia, your nitrite can be expected to be at 0.0 (as of course would be your nitrate). The nitrite will peak after around another ten days -- or around 20 days into the cycle. Your ammonia will start tapering off as the nitrite increases. During this time you will need to make PWC's to keep these levels below what would be toxic amounts for the fish. I strongly advise you to get an ammonia test kit if you do not yet have one. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Ok. So if i were to go and buy say...5 platies next week, that would > decrease the cycle time because there is more amonia to deal with? > > If over the space of 5 weeks, i gradually add all the intended fish i > wish to have, then the bioload would adjust accordingly and the filter > medium would develop the neccecery bacteria? > > And i already have 2 danios, 2 white clouds and 5? madakas in there. > The tank has been up a week, and so far they're all happy and healthy. > The largest of them all barely reaching 1 inch in length > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33604	From: bill1433	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny

Can we clear this up?� Dr. Tim's One And Only? � Hi Lenny: � We have discussed this product on group many times and I have read something�s �about it on your site BUT � There seems to be doubt about its dosage to a tank.� It seems one ordering house or web site says one thing and another say another. We know you have experience with this product how about the real story. � Let�s get clear here.� One bottle does how much of a tank size.� For a 30 gallon tank how many bottles are needed. Finally is there any danger at all of overdosing a tank with this stuff and if you do, what can you do about it? � Bill --- On Tue, 11/25/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank cycle question To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 11:57 PM A tank can be instantly cycled if using a product like Dr. Tim's One And Only. Or if transferring enough cycled filter media, gravel, etc. from a cycled tank to a new tank, in sufficient mass to handle the bioload being put in the new tank. When fishless cycling, using the plain ammonia method, and starting from scratch, it takes 4-8 weeks from all of the reports I've read. Usually, the longer 8 week periods were due to errors being made causing the fishless cycle to stall (too much ammonia added or too low KH level and pH crash, temperature and/or low O2 levels, etc.). When fishless cycling, using the plain ammonia and seeding the filter with some cycled media, I've seen the process completed in 7-10 days to get the tank fishless cycled up to 4-5ppm of ammonia per day.. which is the range you need to add a full bioload of fish to the tank. When cycling with fish, it could take months and months.. even a year, depending on the size of the tank, to get the tank up to the point where it has a full bioload since you can only add a couple of fish at a time, give it several weeks to two months to go through the cycle, then add a couple of more new fish, give it several more weeks, add a couple more fish, etc., etc... and each time you add a couple of new fish, you have to go through the process of quarantining the new fish for a couple of weeks before adding them to your main tank.. or risk infecting your main tank with a new pathogen each time. Plus, you will be subjecting these fish to mini-cycles over and over and over each time you add more fish and these constant mini-cycles will stress the fish making them more susceptible to health issues. So.. the question is.. do you want to fishless cycle, using Dr. Tim's One And Only for $15.00 and have the tank ready for a full bioload the next day... or do you want to fishless cycle with plain ammonia for $1.00 and have the tank ready for a full bioload in around four weeks.... or do you want to cycle with fish and take up to a year to have the tank ready for a full bioload and have all the quarantine and potential health issues dragged out over the course of that long period of time? Remember, whether you have a 10G tank or a 100G tank, if you only have two zebra danios in the tank, it will only be cycled for two zebra danios. Each time you add more fish, the tank will have to go through a mini-cycle period until the N-bacteria have built up a larger colony to handle the larger bioload of the added fish. For a 10G tank, adding a few fish at a time, it will only be a couple of mini-cycles and the 10G tank will have a full bioload. With a 100G tank, adding a few fish at a time, it will take a year or more to fill the tank with a full bioload of fish. The difference is that the two fish in a 10G tank will have 1/10th the water volume so the ammonia/nitrite spikes will be 10 times higher than the same cycling bioload of the two fish in a 100G tank. Two zebra danios may not even realize there is an ammonia level in a 100G tank.. if you are testing, you may not get a reading depending on the accuracy of the test kit... but even if the ammonia level is only 0.001ppm, the nitrifying bacteria will at least start building their colonies to handle that small amount and after 4-6 weeks, you'll at least have a starter colony of N-bacteria for when you add the next batch of fish. When all is said and done.. it's a heck of a lot easier and safer for you and your fish to use Dr. Tim's One And Only. The next best option is fishless cycling with the plain ammonia. Cycling With Fish is NEVER recommended now that these safer and more humane options are now available. People need to start dragging their LFS owners into the 21st Century... even if it means dragging them kicking and screaming... or rather gurgling with their heads shoved down in a fish bowl. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank cycle question Just out of general curiosity. What is the best time for cycleing a tank? My LFS tells me 4 - 5 weeks. But then some internet sources say it only takes a couple of days. Is this subject to the overall size of the tank? Also. Some sites state that it is ok to SLOWLY and gradually (over a few weeks) add hardy fish. (danios etc.) Two days after the tank is filled with treated water. My tank has been up a week now, and I have danios in there. They both seem healthy so far. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 Tested on: 11/25/2008 10:57:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33605	From: Alina	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Ich and heat

Yes, I have an air pump going the whole time. Except when I feed them, so it's not so turbulent in there. I have to day, I'm surprised at how well everyone is doing. My one fish that seemed to get infected badly has shed some of the "spots" but appears to be healing. Another that had it on his fins seems to have fewer. We're on day 4 of heat so I'm hopeful Thanks --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Alina, > > Ray has pretty much told you what you need to know. Treatment for ich > will last from 10-14 days. Do be aware of fish that may have a high > oxygen requirement when treating for ich. You may need to provide extra > aeration in such cases. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 7:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ich and heat > > > Hi Ray, > > Today would be day three of my fish-in-a-hottub ich removal treatment. > Everyone is fine. > > I have a couple of questions: > > Temp has been steadily at 88. I see no new signs of Ich, tho the two > or three fish that have it still have some white spots. What can I > expect regarding those? I assume those will burst and fall off, and > eventually, I will see no more white spots. Does it take a long time > to see no more of the white spots? > > Finally, how long do you think I can safely keep up this temperature? > Like I said, they're all pretty happy, except the ichy ones who are > clearly uncomfortable. > > Let me know what you experience has been. > > Thanks. > > Alina > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Alina, No need to raise the temperature to 90 o (and further > > stress your fish), unless you feel you have one of the more virulent > > forms of Ich. The common Ich (the most prevalent form by far) cannot > > reproduce above 86 o. As long as you have an accurate thermometer, > > you need to raise the temperature only to at least 86 o. If you're > > not sure of its accuracy, raise it to 87 o to make sure. As the Ich > > drops off of the fish, as part of its cycle, the Ich spores that have > > fallen to the bottom will no longer be able to produce new trophonts > > to re-infect your fish. > > > > This process will take some time, as some of the new Ich now may yet > > find a host (fish) in the completion of its cycle, although at this > > temperate it will be weakened. Increased aeration will help in > > preventing any Ich from finding a host. Although not normally > > recommended, some Stress Coat may be added to the tank in lieu of > > salt to help promote a heavier slime coat on the fish. This too will > > help prevent any Ich from being able to gain a foothold. Maintain 86 > > o until three days after you see no further signs of Ich. Ich's > > cycle takes 48 hours at this temperature and you want o give it > > another 24 hours to cover any last hatchers. Do not bother will salt > > baths for Ich. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > A week ago one of my fish clearly had Ich. I started treating the > > > tank with salt but after one dosage, I had a Cory and a mini Placo > > in > > > stress. So I reduced the sality level pretty much down to nothing > > > thru partial water changes. They're better but the Ich isn't. > > > > > > I've been reading a lot about using heat only to kill Ich. I > > realize > > > I could have some super strong strain, but I've got nothing to lose > > > right now. I'm slowly raising temps to 90 (or at least 86F) and > > > hoping to maintain it for the next week to see what happens. > > > > > > I'm starting to think it's hopeless. And I guess I want to save > > > everybody in the tank. > > > > > > Has anyone just used heat successfully? Several books mention this > > as > > > a viable method. Some also suggest giving a separate "salt bath" to > > > fish that can tolerate the salt. > > > > > > As always, your suggestions, thoughts, experiences, are invaluable. > > > Let me know what you guys think. > > > > > > Alina > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33606	From: Gregg	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2795

> > If I were crazy enough to do this, what would the best way be to remove the > UG filter entirely from my 55 gallon freshwater setup and just go with the > two power filters? I'm just mulling this idea over. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33607	From: bill1433	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: One And Only

I found it:   This will give proper instructions from the guy who invented the stuff!   http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/H2O-PURE_Products/H2O-PURE_Products.html   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33608	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny

Just walking in on this conversation. I started a new 75 gallon tank and am in the third day of cycling. I have 5 cory sterbais in there and 2 neon tetra from an old tank and they appear to be doing well so far. I agree with the issue of mini cycling and have fallen into the trap of adding to much to quickly and ruining a tank. How safe is this product and really, instant cycled tank with it? Lenny, since I know nothing about you save this one posting I just read...are you proffessionally affiliated with this product or do you just find it to be a quality product. thanks Ken **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33609	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner

I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with hot water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy for me to tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 lbs, if I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have big burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to let it soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I filled it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and if I can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper towel's to let the vinegar soak. I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a very limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice that my fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the antibiotic, but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the meds helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again last night (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with just keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water and > then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your mineral > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though this > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a point > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then > said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger > treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain water > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked paper > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in direct > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be able > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto > these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it works. > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down to > ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not run > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a > while to give it time to act. > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a gram- > positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for the > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin will > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER case of > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If you > still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below 7.5) > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised by > the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather > sprayed or > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one pane > at a time > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > vinegar, then > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > depends on how > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only > make it too > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually > around 5% > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so it's > already > > diluted with water. > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to follow the > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not treating > them > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of > bacteria that > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these bacteria > will build > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. This > is how the > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" flying > ones down > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets out > of the > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS > suggested > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still haven't > moved into > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't > find him, > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the > bacteria > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make sure > it didn't > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, but 2 > doses (1 > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up and > as long as > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far all > the > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's that > I'm still > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching to > melafix > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used hot > water > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go down > and see > > how it's doing shortly. > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and > then > > > even 25' > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches > every > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental effect > on > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the package > may > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be > prepared to > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the treatment. > Thank > > > God for that Python! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel cleaner > can > > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even have to > > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean the > 125 > > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have > attachments in > > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the > kit. I > > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to > clean my > > > tanks (yay!). > > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it doesn't > suck > > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much about it > > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel > washer > > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck up > gravel > > > if I don't pay enough attention. > > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt > deposits > > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I > soaked it > > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to everyone > who > > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are starting > to > > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of fin & > tail > > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly getting > > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after work too > > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time > around > > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it right > now, > > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to look > > > around for the box. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 > > Tested on: 11/25/2008 9:52:58 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33610	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner

Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those areas dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have hubby tip it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time and concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. If they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it once and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; it's effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although it's somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. This may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't say for sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will at least get limited results from this, but it may not effect a complete cure. It will take more time as its not designed for use against gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either a broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is also very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's KanaPlex), Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn II), Maracyn Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either broad-spectrum antibiotics or gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite the names ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will affect your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative bacteria, you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to something more effective, you want to remove as much as the old med as possible, either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your filter. In this way, you won't be mixing medications. While Melafix is good for minor bacterial problems, its not effective against a diseasse such as this. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with hot > water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy for me to > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 lbs, if > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have big > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to let it > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I filled > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and if I > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper > towel's to let the vinegar soak. > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a very > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice that my > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the antibiotic, > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the meds > helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again last night > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with just > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water and > > then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your mineral > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though this > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a point > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then > > said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger > > treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain water > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked paper > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in direct > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be able > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto > > these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it works. > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely > > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down to > > ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not run > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a > > while to give it time to act. > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a gram- > > positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for the > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin will > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER case of > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If you > > still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either > > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below 7.5) > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also > > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised by > > the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather > > sprayed or > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one pane > > at a time > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > vinegar, then > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > depends on how > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only > > make it too > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually > > around 5% > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so it's > > already > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to follow the > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not treating > > them > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of > > bacteria that > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these bacteria > > will build > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. This > > is how the > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" flying > > ones down > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets out > > of the > > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS > > suggested > > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still haven't > > moved into > > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't > > find him, > > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the > > bacteria > > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make sure > > it didn't > > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, but 2 > > doses (1 > > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up and > > as long as > > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far all > > the > > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's that > > I'm still > > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching to > > melafix > > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > > > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used hot > > water > > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go down > > and see > > > how it's doing shortly. > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and > > then > > > > even 25' > > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches > > every > > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > > > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental effect > > on > > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the package > > may > > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be > > prepared to > > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the treatment. > > Thank > > > > God for that Python! > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to articles referenced > > above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel cleaner > > can > > > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even have to > > > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean the > > 125 > > > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have > > attachments in > > > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the > > kit. I > > > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to > > clean my > > > > tanks (yay!). > > > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it doesn't > > suck > > > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much about it > > > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel > > washer > > > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck up > > gravel > > > > if I don't pay enough attention. > > > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt > > deposits > > > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I > > soaked it > > > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to everyone > > who > > > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > > > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are starting > > to > > > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of fin & > > tail > > > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly getting > > > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after work too > > > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time > > around > > > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it right > > now, > > > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to look > > > > around for the box. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 > > > Tested on: 11/25/2008 9:52:58 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33611	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only

Hi Bill and other, I see there are two product listed. (beginner speaking) What is the difference between the NaH2O Pure, and the H2O Pure of the One and Only ? --- On Wed, 11/26/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] One And Only To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 10:25 AM   I found it:   This will give proper instructions from the guy who invented the stuff!   http://www.drtimsaq uatics.com/ productguide/ H2O-PURE_ Products/ H2O-PURE_ Products. html   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33612	From: bill1433	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2795

� Gregg, � That's easy.� I'm guessing your going to re-do or tear down the tank?� Assuming you have all fish and heaters removed.� Simply use a shop vac wet/dry�vacuum.� Make sure to do around� all the edges of the filter plate because if you don't you'll get some nasty scratches� in the glass or plastic trying to lift the plate out.� After all vacuuming and cleaning out is done, put about 2" or so of water back in.� The plate should almost float up.� If it doesn�t you could have more gravel between the glass and the outboard edges of the plate.� You have to do this all very slowly and carefully or risk tank damage. � Bill � --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Gregg <greggb57@...> wrote: From: Gregg <greggb57@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 2795 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 10:08 AM > > If I were crazy enough to do this, what would the best way be to remove the > UG filter entirely from my 55 gallon freshwater setup and just go with the > two power filters? I'm just mulling this idea over. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33613	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Thoughts on the Fluvul Three and 4 Plus Filters

Hi Guys, I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on the Fluvul 3 and 4 plus filters relative to other filters on the market. thanks Ken **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33614	From: bill1433	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only

Hi Philip Charles,   Ya got me here.  I've never used either of them but may need one and only to start a new tank quick.  I think the other might be a water treatment chemical?   Bill --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: From: Philip Charles <alone29784@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One And Only To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:59 AM Hi Bill and other, I see there are two product listed. (beginner speaking) What is the difference between the NaH2O Pure, and the H2O Pure of the One and Only ? --- On Wed, 11/26/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] One And Only To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 10:25 AM   I found it:   This will give proper instructions from the guy who invented the stuff!   http://www.drtimsaq uatics.com/ productguide/ H2O-PURE_ Products/ H2O-PURE_ Products. html   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33615	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny

Well... I've never used One And Only but Dr. Tim Hovanec is the former Chief Scientist with Marineland and lead the inventions of the Bio-Wheel, Bio-Spira, etc. and is one of the foremost experts concerning nitrifying bacteria in aquaria. Out of all of the so-called bottled bacteria available at pet stores, ONLY Bio-Spira worked as advertised. The other products didn't contain the correct kinds of nitrifying bacteria and/or their bacteria was not alive after sitting in a warehouse or on the store shelves for months and months. For six years, Bio-Spira had to be kept refrigerated during the shipping and storage phases and then kept refrigerated until used.. in order to keep the live bacteria in a hibernative state to keep them alive. In recent years, Dr. Tim and Marineland were working on ways to keep the bacteria alive without requiring refrigeration and developed a way to encapsulate the bacteria to keep them alive at room temperature now... for up to six months. Unfortunately, Marineland decided to merge or be bought out by Tetra and apparently Dr. Tim decided to go his own way and bought the laboratory that he ran for over ten years and started his own company, Dr. Tim's Aquatics http://www.drtimsaquatics.com and http://www.drtimhovanec.com (his consulting business). They held the patents jointly so when Dr. Tim and Marineland went their separate ways, he was able to start producing his own line of products and now Tetra has kept the Bio-Spira brand for SW fish but has renamed Bio-Spira for FW fish into a product called SafeStart. I hope they have kept up the quality control that Marineland had and I'm sure Dr. Tim has but I do not have a lot of confidence in Tetra, the company, based on some of the products I've used from them, some of the crappy chemicals they push on newbie's and their fish keeping advice that they send out via email to newbie's. Now.. all of this leads up to answering your question... how much to use? I would not rely on the info on the "ordering house" website, which could be subject to a typo, but rather go to the source... http://drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/H2O-PURE_Products/H2O-PURE_Products.h tml Directions for Use: SHAKE WELL BEFORE USING BEST TO USE THE ENTIRE CONTENTS AT ONE TIME Minimum dose 10 ml (2 capfuls) per 10 gallons of aquarium water. Cannot be overdosed. A chart at the bottom of that section says a 2 oz bottle will treat a 30G tank, 4 oz. for 60G, etc... and the above directions answers your question about overdosing. As far as "how many bottles", they actually sell the product in sizes from 2 oz. on up so you would only need one bottle.. if you buy the right size. Like most products, I'm sure the cost-per-ounce becomes much more cost effective on the larger bottles. Remember that if you have 10X's the nitrifying bacteria, they will die back to only the amount needed to handle the ammonia/nitrite from the bioload of the tank. Same if you only have 1/10th of the bacteria, then it will only handle 1/10th of the ammonia/nitrite from the bioload of the tank. Based on the experiments done by advanced hobbyists in the past and verified in laboratory tests by Dr. Tim, a fully stocked (not overstocked) tank, in good condition, should not create more than 4-5ppm of ammonia per day... which happens to coincide with the level that we fishless cycle to when using the plain ammonia method so that we can add a full bioload of fish to a tank after completing the fishless cycle... or after using Dr. Tim's One And Only. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank cycle question---Lenny Can we clear this up? Dr. Tim's One And Only? Hi Lenny: We have discussed this product on group many times and I have read something's about it on your site BUT There seems to be doubt about its dosage to a tank. It seems one ordering house or web site says one thing and another say another. We know you have experience with this product how about the real story. Let's get clear here. One bottle does how much of a tank size. For a 30 gallon tank how many bottles are needed. Finally is there any danger at all of overdosing a tank with this stuff and if you do, what can you do about it? Bill --- On Tue, 11/25/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank cycle question To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 11:57 PM A tank can be instantly cycled if using a product like Dr. Tim's One And Only. Or if transferring enough cycled filter media, gravel, etc. from a cycled tank to a new tank, in sufficient mass to handle the bioload being put in the new tank. When fishless cycling, using the plain ammonia method, and starting from scratch, it takes 4-8 weeks from all of the reports I've read. Usually, the longer 8 week periods were due to errors being made causing the fishless cycle to stall (too much ammonia added or too low KH level and pH crash, temperature and/or low O2 levels, etc.). When fishless cycling, using the plain ammonia and seeding the filter with some cycled media, I've seen the process completed in 7-10 days to get the tank fishless cycled up to 4-5ppm of ammonia per day.. which is the range you need to add a full bioload of fish to the tank. When cycling with fish, it could take months and months.. even a year, depending on the size of the tank, to get the tank up to the point where it has a full bioload since you can only add a couple of fish at a time, give it several weeks to two months to go through the cycle, then add a couple of more new fish, give it several more weeks, add a couple more fish, etc., etc... and each time you add a couple of new fish, you have to go through the process of quarantining the new fish for a couple of weeks before adding them to your main tank.. or risk infecting your main tank with a new pathogen each time. Plus, you will be subjecting these fish to mini-cycles over and over and over each time you add more fish and these constant mini-cycles will stress the fish making them more susceptible to health issues. So.. the question is.. do you want to fishless cycle, using Dr. Tim's One And Only for $15.00 and have the tank ready for a full bioload the next day... or do you want to fishless cycle with plain ammonia for $1.00 and have the tank ready for a full bioload in around four weeks.... or do you want to cycle with fish and take up to a year to have the tank ready for a full bioload and have all the quarantine and potential health issues dragged out over the course of that long period of time? Remember, whether you have a 10G tank or a 100G tank, if you only have two zebra danios in the tank, it will only be cycled for two zebra danios. Each time you add more fish, the tank will have to go through a mini-cycle period until the N-bacteria have built up a larger colony to handle the larger bioload of the added fish. For a 10G tank, adding a few fish at a time, it will only be a couple of mini-cycles and the 10G tank will have a full bioload. With a 100G tank, adding a few fish at a time, it will take a year or more to fill the tank with a full bioload of fish. The difference is that the two fish in a 10G tank will have 1/10th the water volume so the ammonia/nitrite spikes will be 10 times higher than the same cycling bioload of the two fish in a 100G tank. Two zebra danios may not even realize there is an ammonia level in a 100G tank.. if you are testing, you may not get a reading depending on the accuracy of the test kit... but even if the ammonia level is only 0.001ppm, the nitrifying bacteria will at least start building their colonies to handle that small amount and after 4-6 weeks, you'll at least have a starter colony of N-bacteria for when you add the next batch of fish. When all is said and done.. it's a heck of a lot easier and safer for you and your fish to use Dr. Tim's One And Only. The next best option is fishless cycling with the plain ammonia. Cycling With Fish is NEVER recommended now that these safer and more humane options are now available. People need to start dragging their LFS owners into the 21st Century... even if it means dragging them kicking and screaming... or rather gurgling with their heads shoved down in a fish bowl. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank cycle question Just out of general curiosity. What is the best time for cycleing a tank? My LFS tells me 4 - 5 weeks. But then some internet sources say it only takes a couple of days. Is this subject to the overall size of the tank? Also. Some sites state that it is ok to SLOWLY and gradually (over a few weeks) add hardy fish. (danios etc.) Two days after the tank is filled with treated water. My tank has been up a week now, and I have danios in there. They both seem healthy so far. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 1:12:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33616	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only

Hey! Something I can answer! :o) I checked out the web site for Dr. Tim just this morning. Only the H2O is for fresh water. The NAH2O is for saltwater as well as the one that says saltwater. Not clear on the why 2 saltwater ones, as I have no intentions of going that route at this time... Dr. Tims web site has a good FAQ on the topic of one and only... I also found out it is the same stuff that Marine land sold under the other name that Frank or Ray said worked so well, biro sira or some such thing. Any Marineland discontinued the product, but you can still get it as the one and only. I the pet company Drs. Foster and Smith sell it... Do not know who else. On 11/26/08, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: > > Hi Bill and other, > I see there are two product listed. (beginner speaking) What is the > difference between the NaH2O Pure, and the H2O Pure of the One and Only ? > > --- On Wed, 11/26/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...<warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > wrote: > From: bill1433 <warrenprint@... <warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] One And Only > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 10:25 AM > > > > I found it: > > > > This will give proper instructions from the guy who invented > > the stuff! > > > > http://www.drtimsaq uatics.com/ productguide/ H2O-PURE_ Products/ > H2O-PURE_ Products. html > > > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33617	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only

LOL. I should have read all my emails before just answering with that long reply a few minutes ago. Glad you found it! But, as usual, my bloviated replies usually contain other tidbits as well. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:26 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] One And Only I found it: This will give proper instructions from the guy who invented the stuff! http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/H2O-PURE_Products/H2O-PURE_Produc ts.html <http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/H2O-PURE_Products/H2O-PURE_Produ cts.html> Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 1:17:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33618	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner

Well, it's good that you can't move the 200 pound tank around.. or even roll it on it's side. At least hubby doesn't have to worry about you dragging or rolling him into the woods after smacking him with the cast iron skillet one day. LOL I'm glad that Ray caught the fact that they sold you the wrong antibiotics so you didn't waste too much time/money on the wrong treatment. If your LFS does not have the correct antibiotics, then get the Melafix to at least try and help aid in their recovery. Melafix is not an antibiotic. I guess, for us humans, I would compare it to putting some Bacitracin ointment (or similar product) on a cut compared to taking Penicillin or another antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. Obviously the stronger antibiotic is better but you wouldn't take it for a cut. Since your fish were in such bad shape, that is why I suggested getting a stronger antibiotic. It's too bad your LFS is suffering from lack of real experience (sold you the wrong product) that so many pet stores and LFS employees/owners seem to have nowadays.... maybe there's a future business for you on your island paradise! Your customers won't have to know that you're consulting us with each of their questions. Just tell them, let me go see the best thing I have in inventory on my computer. Then, if we don't answer right away.. tell them your computer is acting up. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Python gravel cleaner I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with hot water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy for me to tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 lbs, if I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have big burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to let it soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I filled it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and if I can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper towel's to let the vinegar soak. I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a very limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice that my fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the antibiotic, but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the meds helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again last night (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with just keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water and > then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your mineral > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though this is > what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a point > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then said > to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger treatment. > Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain water in this > position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked paper towels > applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in direct contact. > The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be able to pour > vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto these > encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it works. > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down to > ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not run > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a while > to give it time to act. > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a gram- > positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for the > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin will > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER case of > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If you > still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below 7.5) > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised by the > manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather > sprayed or > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one pane > at a time > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > vinegar, then > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > depends on how > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only > make it too > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually > around 5% > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so it's > already > > diluted with water. > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to follow the > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not treating > them > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of > bacteria that > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these bacteria > will build > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. This > is how the > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" flying > ones down > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets out > of the > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS > suggested > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still haven't > moved into > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't > find him, > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the > bacteria > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make sure > it didn't > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, but 2 > doses (1 > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up and > as long as > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far all > the > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's that > I'm still > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching to > melafix > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used hot > water > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go down > and see > > how it's doing shortly. > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and > then > > > even 25' > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches > every > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental effect > on > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the package > may > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be > prepared to > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the treatment. > Thank > > > God for that Python! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel cleaner > can > > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even have to > > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean the > 125 > > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have > attachments in > > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the > kit. I > > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to > clean my > > > tanks (yay!). > > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it doesn't > suck > > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much about it > > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel > washer > > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck up > gravel > > > if I don't pay enough attention. > > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt > deposits > > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I > soaked it > > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to everyone > who > > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are starting > to > > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of fin & > tail > > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly getting > > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after work too > > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time > around > > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it right > now, > > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to look > > > around for the box. > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 1:39:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33619	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only

Na = Sodium = Salt.. so the "NaH20 Pure" is Dr. Tim's branding for Saltwater products and the "H20 Pure" is for Freshwater products. I suspect he'll be changing this soon.. or at least elaborating on it on the package... since it's leading to some confusion for many newbie's.. which is the primary market for his products... at least for the One And Only. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One And Only Hi Bill and other, I see there are two product listed. (beginner speaking) What is the difference between the NaH2O Pure, and the H2O Pure of the One and Only ? --- On Wed, 11/26/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] One And Only To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 10:25 AM I found it: This will give proper instructions from the guy who invented the stuff! http://www.drtimsaq uatics.com/ productguide/ H2O-PURE_ Products/ H2O-PURE_ Products. html Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 1:46:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny

Hi Ken, I think I already answered your questions in my "long" reply to Bill which also contained my "long" reply to Lisa about the mini-cycles, cycling with fish, fishless cycling, etc. If I ever had to start up a new tank from scratch, I would, without a doubt, use Dr. Tim's One And Only over any other product that might be out there. Based on reports I've read in other forums, the new product still works just as well as Bio-Spira did so yes, you can "instantly" cycle a new tank with One And Only so that you can add a full bioload of fish and not have to go through the arduous process of cycling with fish... for you and even worse for the fish. No, I'm not related to Dr. Tim or any other company... although I wouldn't mind a piece of that pie if it was ever offered. lol Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank cycle question---Lenny Just walking in on this conversation. I started a new 75 gallon tank and am in the third day of cycling. I have 5 cory sterbais in there and 2 neon tetra from an old tank and they appear to be doing well so far. I agree with the issue of mini cycling and have fallen into the trap of adding to much to quickly and ruining a tank. How safe is this product and really, instant cycled tank with it? Lenny, since I know nothing about you save this one posting I just read...are you proffessionally affiliated with this product or do you just find it to be a quality product. thanks Ken _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 1:25:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33621	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only

Thanks Harl, I appreciate your response. Im going to order some and try it. (it is cheaper than Bio-Spira) I checked. Philip --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Harl Myers <uneekfish@...> wrote: From: Harl Myers <uneekfish@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One And Only To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 1:56 PM Hey! Something I can answer! :o) I checked out the web site for Dr. Tim just this morning. Only the H2O is for fresh water. The NAH2O is for saltwater as well as the one that says saltwater. Not clear on the why 2 saltwater ones, as I have no intentions of going that route at this time... Dr. Tims web site has a good FAQ on the topic of one and only... I also found out it is the same stuff that Marine land sold under the other name that Frank or Ray said worked so well, biro sira or some such thing. Any Marineland discontinued the product, but you can still get it as the one and only. I the pet company Drs. Foster and Smith sell it... Do not know who else. On 11/26/08, Philip Charles <alone29784@yahoo. com> wrote: > > Hi Bill and other, > I see there are two product listed. (beginner speaking) What is the > difference between the NaH2O Pure, and the H2O Pure of the One and Only ? > > --- On Wed, 11/26/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com<warrenprint% 40yahoo.com> > > wrote: > From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com <warrenprint% 40yahoo.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One And Only > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 10:25 AM > > > > I found it: > > > > This will give proper instructions from the guy who invented > > the stuff! > > > > http://www.drtimsaq uatics.com/ productguide/ H2O-PURE_ Products/ > H2O-PURE_ Products. html > > > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33622	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Large South American Tank Fish

Hi Guys, Okay, so I am starting a south american themed tank (I've tried this before but real life got in the way and th project was aborted several times). In terms of fish, there will be several species of tetra and a few corys (sterbai and albinos). My fiance wants a larger fish in the tank that she can call her own. My own research has turned up a little so lets go to the expert...what fish can be put in there that has a little size which she can claim that WONT eat my tetra. I have a 75 gallon tank. temp will be in the 70-72 range and ph around 7.6 it seems. thanks Ken **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33623	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: One And Only

Oh, you answered it much better! But I was able to answer it! A small mile stone, but it at least shows that I am paying attention. :o) On 11/26/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > LOL. I should have read all my emails before just answering with that > long > reply a few minutes ago. Glad you found it! But, as usual, my bloviated > replies usually contain other tidbits as well. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:26 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] One And Only > > I found it: > > This will give proper instructions from the guy who invented the stuff! > > > http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/H2O-PURE_Products/H2O-PURE_Produc > ts.html > < > http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/H2O-PURE_Products/H2O-PURE_Produ > cts.html> > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 > Tested on: 11/26/2008 1:17:39 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33624	From: Walden Nida	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?

When we talk about the optimum temp we are talking about the temperature to achieve the fastest growth possible. The goal for keeping a pet fish is much different. You are not trying to grow the fish up as rapidly as possible to either show it or spawn it. Speed of growth is very important to raising show quality fish. Keeping a fish healthy and extending its life is the goal of most pet keepers so room temperature is fine. If you are comfortable so is the betta. A good part of the bettas sold in pet stores are raised around Bangkok. You can check their daily temps and you will soon find out the highs and lows are not in the 80’s. Sometimes it is hotter and sometimes cooler. The fish do just fine. Thanks for the plug. Wally 2009 IBC Convention Chair DFW, TX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33625	From: Andreas	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish

unless I am entirely mistakedn south american or amazon tanks tend to have soft water and LOW PH in the range of 6.5 at least thats how I keep my SA fish ... A On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:50 PM, <Iksnip@...> wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Okay, so I am starting a south american themed tank (I've tried this before > > but real life got in the way and th project was aborted several times). In > terms of fish, there will be several species of tetra and a few corys > (sterbai > and albinos). My fiance wants a larger fish in the tank that she can call > her own. My own research has turned up a little so lets go to the > expert...what fish can be put in there that has a little size which she can > claim that > WONT eat my tetra. I have a 75 gallon tank. temp will be in the 70-72 range > > and ph around 7.6 it seems. > > thanks > > Ken > **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > AOL.com. > ( > http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002 > ) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33626	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish

indeed they do; I cant seem to get my ph down in past tanks and at the moment it has settled at 7.5 but with this tank its only day 3 of cycling so stay tuned **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33627	From: Harl Myers	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp ?

Thanks for the tip on the book! It made me laugh! Here I have been catching a bit of flack because I named the fish, had I done all this, oh the stories they would tell! Oh I named my little red fellow Pugnacious, and call him Pug for short... Well he greets me when I come back to the office by wriggling around, excited for food, and his antics are cute... At least my conversations are real short... ;o) On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > > And for any Betta keepers out there.. here's a FREE 48 page e-Book > available > from the main IBC site.. "How to Entertain Your Betta Fish" (PDF-Book, hard > copy available) by Paul Toth, illustrations Allan Wong > http://www3.telus.net/starthere/bettabook/ (Click the Download link... > then > again on the next page.. or just click here...) > > http://www3.telus.net/starthere/bettabook/pdf/HowToEntertainYourBettaFish.pd > f > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Walden Nida > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Same new member - another new fish - betta temp > ? > > The fish from the local pet store is not that far removed from the wild. > Most of them have been raised in Thailand. They have been spawned in > outdoor > vats and raised in small containers. The fish will live longer at lower > temperatures as it metabolism slows. They have already lived in water at or > near 100 to temps in the 60's. They are tough fish and do quite well or > even > better without the heater. I have raised thousands of bettas and through > the > years have learned what parameters the fish do best. The most important > thing is clean water and good food. This is far more important than a > heater. I have seen bettas raised out side where the water temps were over > 100 and I have also seen them at temps in the 50's and the fish did quite > well under both extremes. If tannins are added to the water and it is > changed daily with plenty of good food the fish will not be bothered by > disease. > > Wally > 2009 IBC Convention Chair > DFW, TX > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 > Tested on: 11/26/2008 1:04:00 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33628	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish

Hi Ken, A great place for info on biotopes is Mongabay.com. Here's there page of various biotopes and you'll see they have several South American themes (down near the bottom of the list). http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm While none of the water parameters for these biotopes match yours precisely, most of the fish should be able to acclimate to your water parameters but you should probably add a heater to raise the temp to tropical levels around 78F. 70-72F, while tolerated by tropical's is not recommended all of the time and is on the low scale and would be more suitable to cool/cold water fish... there are plenty of these to choose from also if that's what you decide. While on the Biotope page, the S.A. Clearwater Stream and Oxbow Lake are two that might interest you. You can also Google for "south american biotope aquarium" and find other websites with information but make sure you check out your sources to verify that they are reliable. Here's another respected website that I have biotope info for in my favorites folder that has several options. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/bio-type.html You mention that your pH will be "around 7.6 it seems". You should do a 48 hour baseline test on your source/tap water to see what your real water parameters will be to start with and realize that once it's in your tank and your tank's ecosystem is mature, the pH will constantly go down and will be replenished with the weekly 25% PWC's (partial water changes). Adding some driftwood (a natural part of a S.A. tank anyhow) will further lower the pH which will actually be better for your fish since many of the fish from S.A. are naturally used to a lower pH. After reading over the various biotopes and deciding on which kind you might want.. or even morphing more than one into your tank... then look at the Mongabay profiles on each of the fish you are considering. http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm (use the Advanced section and put a bullet in Mongabay Fish) and search for the common or Latin names... or do like I do and just type Mongabay and the fishes name in Google and Google will almost always find the fishes profile in the top one or two hits.) In each Mongabay Fish profile, you'll see recommendations for water parameters and also "Suggested Companions"... fish that are most likely to be compatible with that fish so you do not have as much risk of one pet eating another pet. Of course, the fish do not always read the same things we do so they might decide to deviate from their "normal" behavior.. and then you could always end up with a Hannibal Lector fish that needs to be locked up in his own tank. LOL http://fish.mongabay.com/ - you can also look at more biotope searches from this page such as just a single country or region. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Large South American Tank Fish Hi Guys, Okay, so I am starting a south american themed tank (I've tried this before but real life got in the way and th project was aborted several times). In terms of fish, there will be several species of tetra and a few corys (sterbai and albinos). My fiance wants a larger fish in the tank that she can call her own. My own research has turned up a little so lets go to the expert...what fish can be put in there that has a little size which she can claim that WONT eat my tetra. I have a 75 gallon tank. temp will be in the 70-72 range and ph around 7.6 it seems. thanks Ken **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp <http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000 002> &icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002 <http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp <http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000 002> &icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002> ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 1:58:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 3:05:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33629	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish

Well, that's a brief, but very broad generalization. Not entirely correct as it doesn't take into consideration the many diverse regions of this hugh continent, but when compared to Central America or East Africa (rift lakes area), as a whole it's considered as such as it pertains to the largest area of fish collecting nearest the oldest export area of Manaos -- that being the Amazon Rain Forest to the west of this large city, up-river near Benjamin Constant, in the State of Mato Grosso and over the Brazilian border into Peru and Columbia. Many of the back-water tributaries of the Amazon drainage in the western part of the State of Amazonas (Rio Jurua, Rio Madeira/Arupuana, etc.) have similar conditions. On the other hand, water conditions of the drainage on the west slope of the Andes is similar to that of much of Central America; moderately hard, alkaline water. Those waters flowing north into the Atlantic, off of the Venezuela-Guiana Highland do not have the time to gather dissolved organics and also remain alkaline, as do those rivers farther to the South nearer Porte Alegro and Montevideo. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Andreas <andreas1120@...> wrote: > > unless I am entirely mistaken south american or amazon tanks tend to have > soft water and LOW PH in the range of 6.5 > > at least thats how I keep my SA fish ... > > A > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:50 PM, <Iksnip@...> wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Okay, so I am starting a south american themed tank (I've tried this before > > > > but real life got in the way and th project was aborted several times). In > > terms of fish, there will be several species of tetra and a few corys > > (sterbai > > and albinos). My fiance wants a larger fish in the tank that she can call > > her own. My own research has turned up a little so lets go to the > > expert...what fish can be put in there that has a little size which she can > > claim that > > WONT eat my tetra. I have a 75 gallon tank. temp will be in the 70-72 range > > > > and ph around 7.6 it seems. > > > > thanks > > > > Ken > > **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > > AOL.com. > > ( > > http://www.aol.com/?optin=new- dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002 > > ) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33630	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner

The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show signs of fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing any signs). I have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to keep the water clean, and I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow (day off), but I don't plan on taking any of the carbon out yet (was going to use it to help establish the 125 gallon once I get it cleaned). Thankfully the new tank also came with media for the filter (brand new unopened) that can be used with freshwater (not just saltwater like the tank was being used for). All I need to figure out for the new tank is gravel. Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel that was in it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have crushed coral in it from looking at it, or something similar at least)? Then add gravel later as I can get it? Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those areas > dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have hubby > tip it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time and > concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. > > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. If > they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it once > and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; it's > effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although it's > somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. This > may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't say for > sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will at least > get limited results from this, but it may not effect a complete > cure. It will take more time as its not designed for use against > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either a > broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. > > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is > also very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's > KanaPlex), Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn II), > Maracyn Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and > Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either broad-spectrum > antibiotics or gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite the names > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will > affect your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative > bacteria, you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to > something more effective, you want to remove as much as the old med > as possible, either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your > filter. In this way, you won't be mixing medications. While Melafix > is good for minor bacterial problems, its not effective against a > diseasse such as this. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with hot > > water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy for > me to > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 > lbs, if > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have > big > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to let > it > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I > filled > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and > if I > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper > > towel's to let the vinegar soak. > > > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a > very > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice that > my > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the > antibiotic, > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the meds > > helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again last > night > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with > just > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water and > > > then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your > mineral > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though > this > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a > point > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then > > > said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger > > > treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain > water > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked > paper > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in > direct > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be > able > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto > > > these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it > works. > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely > > > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down to > > > ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not > run > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a > > > while to give it time to act. > > > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a gram- > > > positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for > the > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin > will > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER case > of > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If you > > > still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either > > > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below > 7.5) > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also > > > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised by > > > the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather > > > sprayed or > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one > pane > > > at a time > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > > vinegar, then > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > > depends on how > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only > > > make it too > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually > > > around 5% > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so it's > > > already > > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to > follow the > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not > treating > > > them > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of > > > bacteria that > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these bacteria > > > will build > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. This > > > is how the > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" > flying > > > ones down > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets > out > > > of the > > > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS > > > suggested > > > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still > haven't > > > moved into > > > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't > > > find him, > > > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the > > > bacteria > > > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make > sure > > > it didn't > > > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, > but 2 > > > doses (1 > > > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up > and > > > as long as > > > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far > all > > > the > > > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's > that > > > I'm still > > > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching > to > > > melafix > > > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > > > > > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used > hot > > > water > > > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go > down > > > and see > > > > how it's doing shortly. > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and > > > then > > > > > even 25' > > > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches > > > every > > > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > > > > > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental > effect > > > on > > > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the > package > > > may > > > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be > > > prepared to > > > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the > treatment. > > > Thank > > > > > God for that Python! > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced > > > above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel > cleaner > > > can > > > > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even > have to > > > > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean > the > > > 125 > > > > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have > > > attachments in > > > > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the > > > kit. I > > > > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to > > > clean my > > > > > tanks (yay!). > > > > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it > doesn't > > > suck > > > > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much > about it > > > > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel > > > washer > > > > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck > up > > > gravel > > > > > if I don't pay enough attention. > > > > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt > > > deposits > > > > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I > > > soaked it > > > > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to > everyone > > > who > > > > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > > > > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are > starting > > > to > > > > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of > fin & > > > tail > > > > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly > getting > > > > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after > work too > > > > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time > > > around > > > > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it > right > > > now, > > > > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to > look > > > > > around for the box. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081125-1, 11/25/2008 > > > > Tested on: 11/25/2008 9:52:58 PM > > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33631	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner

Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of their "homes". It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass bottomed tank. That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" days. When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove any detritus/poop first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show signs of fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing any signs). I have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to keep the water clean, and I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow (day off), but I don't plan on taking any of the carbon out yet (was going to use it to help establish the 125 gallon once I get it cleaned). Thankfully the new tank also came with media for the filter (brand new unopened) that can be used with freshwater (not just saltwater like the tank was being used for). All I need to figure out for the new tank is gravel. Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel that was in it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have crushed coral in it from looking at it, or something similar at least)? Then add gravel later as I can get it? Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those areas > dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have hubby tip > it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time and > concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. > > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. If > they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it once > and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; it's > effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although it's > somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. This > may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't say for > sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will at least > get limited results from this, but it may not effect a complete cure. > It will take more time as its not designed for use against > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either a > broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. > > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is also > very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's KanaPlex), > Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn II), Maracyn > Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's > Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either broad-spectrum antibiotics or > gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite the names > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will affect > your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative bacteria, > you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to something more > effective, you want to remove as much as the old med as possible, > either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your filter. In this way, > you won't be mixing medications. While Melafix is good for minor > bacterial problems, its not effective against a diseasse such as this. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with hot > > water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy for > me to > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 > lbs, if > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have > big > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to let > it > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I > filled > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and > if I > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper > > towel's to let the vinegar soak. > > > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a > very > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice that > my > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the > antibiotic, > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the meds > > helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again last > night > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with > just > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water and > > > then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your > mineral > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though > this > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a > point > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then > > > said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger > > > treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain > water > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked > paper > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in > direct > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be > able > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto > > > these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it > works. > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely > > > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down to > > > ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not > run > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a > > > while to give it time to act. > > > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a gram- > > > positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for > the > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin > will > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER case > of > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If you > > > still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either > > > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below > 7.5) > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also > > > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised by > > > the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather > > > sprayed or > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one > pane > > > at a time > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > > vinegar, then > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > > depends on how > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only > > > make it too > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually > > > around 5% > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so it's > > > already > > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to > follow the > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not > treating > > > them > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of > > > bacteria that > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these bacteria > > > will build > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. This > > > is how the > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" > flying > > > ones down > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets > out > > > of the > > > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS > > > suggested > > > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still > haven't > > > moved into > > > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't > > > find him, > > > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the > > > bacteria > > > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make > sure > > > it didn't > > > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, > but 2 > > > doses (1 > > > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up > and > > > as long as > > > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far > all > > > the > > > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's > that > > > I'm still > > > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching > to > > > melafix > > > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > > > > > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used > hot > > > water > > > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go > down > > > and see > > > > how it's doing shortly. > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and > > > then > > > > > even 25' > > > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches > > > every > > > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > > > > > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental > effect > > > on > > > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the > package > > > may > > > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be > > > prepared to > > > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the > treatment. > > > Thank > > > > > God for that Python! > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced > > > above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel > cleaner > > > can > > > > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even > have to > > > > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean > the > > > 125 > > > > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have > > > attachments in > > > > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the > > > kit. I > > > > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to > > > clean my > > > > > tanks (yay!). > > > > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it > doesn't > > > suck > > > > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much > about it > > > > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel > > > washer > > > > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck > up > > > gravel > > > > > if I don't pay enough attention. > > > > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt > > > deposits > > > > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I > > > soaked it > > > > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to > everyone > > > who > > > > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > > > > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are > starting > > > to > > > > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of > fin & > > > tail > > > > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly > getting > > > > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after > work too > > > > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time > > > around > > > > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it > right > > > now, > > > > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to > look > > > > > around for the box. > > > > > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 4:13:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33632	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Python gravel cleaner

LOL, yeah hubby doesn't have to worry much ;) And yes, it's too bad my LFS doesn't have the best knowledge, but I've found that the employee that works there is better than the owner (she actually tries to find the answer, and is honest if she doesn't know the answer), the owner will make crap up *sigh*. I actually don't shop there when he's working and wait till wednesday-saturday to do my shopping when he's working over on the pet store side instead, LOL. The owner was the one that suggested angel's for my community tank *sighs again*, but that's okay they'll be in a nice big tank with my severum soon ;) I'd start up my own LFS but it'd be way too expensive and frustrating to get fish alive here ;) Not to mention that the fish/pet stores that we have had in the past didn't make it very long unless they had a well run business and an established customer base. We had one pet store not even make it a year and the animal shelter wouldn't grant them "rights" to sell kittens/puppies, they really didn't like that pet store, I think they were the ones that caused them to end up going out of business (unsanitary living conditions for some of the animals). We had a GREAT LFS/LPS years ago, but he only had the store for his daughter and when she grew up he went out of business, can't blame him though. Then we had another LFS a few years ago that had sick fish all the time, I wouldn't have bought any fish from him even if I had had a tank then ;) Needless to say, the local fish/pet stores do not have a great track record so far, most of them have gone out of business for bad reasons or lack of money, the only good one was doing it for his family ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, it's good that you can't move the 200 pound tank around.. or > even roll > it on it's side. At least hubby doesn't have to worry about you > dragging or > rolling him into the woods after smacking him with the cast iron > skillet one > day. LOL > > I'm glad that Ray caught the fact that they sold you the wrong antibiotics > so you didn't waste too much time/money on the wrong treatment. If > your LFS > does not have the correct antibiotics, then get the Melafix to at > least try > and help aid in their recovery. Melafix is not an antibiotic. I guess, for > us humans, I would compare it to putting some Bacitracin ointment (or > similar product) on a cut compared to taking Penicillin or another > antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. Obviously the stronger antibiotic is > better but you wouldn't take it for a cut. Since your fish were in > such bad > shape, that is why I suggested getting a stronger antibiotic. > > It's too bad your LFS is suffering from lack of real experience (sold you > the wrong product) that so many pet stores and LFS employees/owners > seem to > have nowadays.... maybe there's a future business for you on your island > paradise! Your customers won't have to know that you're consulting us with > each of their questions. Just tell them, let me go see the best thing I > have in inventory on my computer. Then, if we don't answer right away.. > tell them your computer is acting up. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Python gravel cleaner > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with hot > water (a > little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy for me to tip > over on > my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 lbs, if I tried moving > it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have big burly arms but > they > aren't THAT burly, LOL. > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to let it > soak > over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I filled it with > hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and if I can get > hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper towel's to let > the vinegar soak. > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a very > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice that my > fish > (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the antibiotic, but I > suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the meds helped more > than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again last night (so it sat > with > meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC yesterday). Should I go try > to find a different med or stick with just keeping my tank cleaner? My > PH is > 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water and > > then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your mineral > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though this is > > what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a point > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then said > > to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger treatment. > > Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain water in this > > position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked paper towels > > applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in direct contact. > > The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be able to pour > > vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto these > > encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it works. > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely > > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down to > > ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not run > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a while > > to give it time to act. > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a gram- > > positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for the > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin will > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER case of > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If you > > still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either > > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below 7.5) > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also > > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised by the > > manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather > > sprayed or > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one pane > > at a time > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > vinegar, then > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > depends on how > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only > > make it too > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually > > around 5% > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so it's > > already > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to follow the > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not treating > > them > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of > > bacteria that > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these bacteria > > will build > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. This > > is how the > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" flying > > ones down > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets out > > of the > > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS > > suggested > > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still haven't > > moved into > > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't > > find him, > > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the > > bacteria > > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make sure > > it didn't > > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, but 2 > > doses (1 > > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up and > > as long as > > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far all > > the > > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's that > > I'm still > > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching to > > melafix > > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > > > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used hot > > water > > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go down > > and see > > > how it's doing shortly. > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and > > then > > > > even 25' > > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches > > every > > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > > > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental effect > > on > > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the package > > may > > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be > > prepared to > > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the treatment. > > Thank > > > > God for that Python! > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > > above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel cleaner > > can > > > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even have to > > > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean the > > 125 > > > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have > > attachments in > > > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the > > kit. I > > > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to > > clean my > > > > tanks (yay!). > > > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it doesn't > > suck > > > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much about it > > > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel > > washer > > > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck up > > gravel > > > > if I don't pay enough attention. > > > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt > > deposits > > > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I > > soaked it > > > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to everyone > > who > > > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > > > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are starting > > to > > > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of fin & > > tail > > > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly getting > > > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after work too > > > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time > > around > > > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it right > > now, > > > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to look > > > > around for the box. > > > > > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 > Tested on: 11/26/2008 1:39:15 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33633	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner

Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as much as > they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of their "homes". > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well gravel > hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass bottomed tank. > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > days. > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. or > would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but anyhow.. check > out your local landscape or rock companies for pea gravel. They should > sell > it in various sizes and it would be much cheaper to buy it in bulk from > them, rather than "aquarium gravel" which costs more just because of the > name. Just rinse the gravel really well, regardless of your choice, put it > in a colander. Slowly lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will > minimize the stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first > (well.. not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > any detritus/poop first. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show > signs of > fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing any signs). I > have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to keep the water > clean, and > I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow (day off), but I don't plan on > taking > any of the carbon out yet (was going to use it to help establish the 125 > gallon once I get it cleaned). Thankfully the new tank also came with > media > for the filter (brand new unopened) that can be used with freshwater (not > just saltwater like the tank was being used for). All I need to figure out > for the new tank is gravel. > > Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel that > was in > it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have crushed coral in it > from looking at it, or something similar at least)? Then add gravel > later as > I can get it? > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those areas > > dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have hubby tip > > it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time and > > concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. > > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. > > > > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. If > > they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the > > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it > > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it once > > and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; it's > > effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although it's > > somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. This > > may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't say for > > sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will at least > > get limited results from this, but it may not effect a complete cure. > > It will take more time as its not designed for use against > > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your > > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either a > > broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. > > > > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for > > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is also > > very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's KanaPlex), > > Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn II), Maracyn > > Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's > > Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either broad-spectrum antibiotics or > > gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite the names > > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and > > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will affect > > your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative bacteria, > > you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to something more > > effective, you want to remove as much as the old med as possible, > > either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your filter. In this way, > > you won't be mixing medications. While Melafix is good for minor > > bacterial problems, its not effective against a diseasse such as this. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with hot > > > water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy for > > me to > > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 > > lbs, if > > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have > > big > > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to let > > it > > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I > > filled > > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and > > if I > > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper > > > towel's to let the vinegar soak. > > > > > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a > > very > > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice that > > my > > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the > > antibiotic, > > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the meds > > > helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again last > > night > > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with > > just > > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water and > > > > then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your > > mineral > > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though > > this > > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a > > point > > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then > > > > said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger > > > > treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain > > water > > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked > > paper > > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in > > direct > > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be > > able > > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto > > > > these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it > > works. > > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely > > > > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down to > > > > ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not > > run > > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a > > > > while to give it time to act. > > > > > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a gram- > > > > positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for > > the > > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin > > will > > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER case > > of > > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If you > > > > still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either > > > > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below > > 7.5) > > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also > > > > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised by > > > > the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather > > > > sprayed or > > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one > > pane > > > > at a time > > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > > > vinegar, then > > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > > > depends on how > > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only > > > > make it too > > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually > > > > around 5% > > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so it's > > > > already > > > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to > > follow the > > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not > > treating > > > > them > > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of > > > > bacteria that > > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these bacteria > > > > will build > > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. This > > > > is how the > > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" > > flying > > > > ones down > > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets > > out > > > > of the > > > > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS > > > > suggested > > > > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still > > haven't > > > > moved into > > > > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't > > > > find him, > > > > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the > > > > bacteria > > > > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make > > sure > > > > it didn't > > > > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, > > but 2 > > > > doses (1 > > > > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up > > and > > > > as long as > > > > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far > > all > > > > the > > > > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's > > that > > > > I'm still > > > > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching > > to > > > > melafix > > > > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > > > > > > > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used > > hot > > > > water > > > > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go > > down > > > > and see > > > > > how it's doing shortly. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and > > > > then > > > > > > even 25' > > > > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches > > > > every > > > > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental > > effect > > > > on > > > > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the > > package > > > > may > > > > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be > > > > prepared to > > > > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the > > treatment. > > > > Thank > > > > > > God for that Python! > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel > > cleaner > > > > can > > > > > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even > > have to > > > > > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean > > the > > > > 125 > > > > > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have > > > > attachments in > > > > > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the > > > > kit. I > > > > > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to > > > > clean my > > > > > > tanks (yay!). > > > > > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it > > doesn't > > > > suck > > > > > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much > > about it > > > > > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel > > > > washer > > > > > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck > > up > > > > gravel > > > > > > if I don't pay enough attention. > > > > > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt > > > > deposits > > > > > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I > > > > soaked it > > > > > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to > > everyone > > > > who > > > > > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > > > > > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are > > starting > > > > to > > > > > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of > > fin & > > > > tail > > > > > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly > > getting > > > > > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after > > work too > > > > > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time > > > > around > > > > > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it > > right > > > > now, > > > > > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to > > look > > > > > > around for the box. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 > Tested on: 11/26/2008 4:13:06 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33634	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner

While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of their "homes". > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass bottomed tank. > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > days. > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove any > detritus/poop first. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show > signs of fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing > any signs). I have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to keep > the water clean, and I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow (day off), > but I don't plan on taking any of the carbon out yet (was going to use > it to help establish the 125 gallon once I get it cleaned). Thankfully > the new tank also came with media for the filter (brand new unopened) > that can be used with freshwater (not just saltwater like the tank was > being used for). All I need to figure out for the new tank is gravel. > > Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel that > was in it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have crushed > coral in it from looking at it, or something similar at least)? Then > add gravel later as I can get it? > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those areas > > dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have hubby > > tip it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time and > > concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. > > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. > > > > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. If > > they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the > > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it > > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it > > once and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; > > it's effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although > > it's somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. > > This may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't > > say for sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will > > at least get limited results from this, but it may not effect a complete cure. > > It will take more time as its not designed for use against > > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your > > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either a > > broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. > > > > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for > > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is > > also very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's > > KanaPlex), Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn > > II), Maracyn Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator > > and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either broad-spectrum > > antibiotics or gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite the names > > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and > > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will > > affect your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative > > bacteria, you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to > > something more effective, you want to remove as much as the old med > > as possible, either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your > > filter. In this way, you won't be mixing medications. While Melafix > > is good for minor bacterial problems, its not effective against a diseasse such as this. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with > > > hot water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy > > > for > > me to > > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 > > lbs, if > > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have > > big > > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to > > > let > > it > > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I > > filled > > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and > > if I > > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper > > > towel's to let the vinegar soak. > > > > > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a > > very > > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice > > > that > > my > > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the > > antibiotic, > > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the > > > meds helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again > > > last > > night > > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with > > just > > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water > > > > and then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your > > mineral > > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though > > this > > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a > > point > > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then > > > > said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger > > > > treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain > > water > > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked > > paper > > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in > > direct > > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be > > able > > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto > > > > these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it > > works. > > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely > > > > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down > > > > to ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does > > > > not > > run > > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a > > > > while to give it time to act. > > > > > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a > > > > gram- positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if > > > > anything, for > > the > > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin > > will > > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER > > > > case > > of > > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If > > > > you still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either > > > > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below > > 7.5) > > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also > > > > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised > > > > by the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather > > > > sprayed or > > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one > > pane > > > > at a time > > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > > > vinegar, then > > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > > > depends on how > > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only > > > > make it too > > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually > > > > around 5% > > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so > > > > > it's > > > > already > > > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to > > follow the > > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not > > treating > > > > them > > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of > > > > bacteria that > > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these > > > > > bacteria > > > > will build > > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. > > > > > This > > > > is how the > > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" > > flying > > > > ones down > > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > >> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets > > out > > > > of the > > > > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the > > > > > LFS > > > > suggested > > > > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still > > haven't > > > > moved into > > > > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I > > > > > can't > > > > find him, > > > > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with > > > > > the > > > > bacteria > > > > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make > > sure > > > > it didn't > > > > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, > > but 2 > > > > doses (1 > > > > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up > > and > > > > as long as > > > > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So > > > > > far > > all > > > > the > > > > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's > > that > > > > I'm still > > > > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am > > > > > switching > > to > > > > melafix > > > > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > > > > > > > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used > > hot > > > > water > > > > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go > > down > > > > and see > > > > > how it's doing shortly. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') > > > > > > and > > > > then > > > > > > even 25' > > > > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also > > > > > > reaches > > > > every > > > > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental > > effect > > > > on > > > > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the > > package > > > > may > > > > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be > > > > prepared to > > > > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the > > treatment. > > > > Thank > > > > > > God for that Python! > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 4:42:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page

If anyone is using Google as your "Home" page on IE (Internet Explorer... and possibly other browsers), you can personalize it which then takes the name of iGoogle but still has a Google URL. Anyhow, if you add gadgets to your home page, do a search for 'aquarium' and you'll see many options to add a virtual aquarium to your home page. Even the Monterey Bay Public Aquarium has a live webcam gadget so you can watch "real" fish (7am to 7pm with feedings at 11:30 and 4) instead of the virtual aquariums that the other gadgets have... besides, all of the virtual aquariums are for saltwater fish anyhow. The "live" cam times out after 60 seconds so you'll have to refresh your home page to see the live fish more often and they plug their own website on the gadget where you can watch 7 other cams if you want. Heck... it beats working. LOL So.. is anybody stuffing an Oscar or Goldfish tomorrow.. instead of Turkey? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 5:19:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33636	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: FW: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page

I'm checking out the Penguin live cam right now and it's feeding time... 3 p.m. (Cali time). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:19 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page If anyone is using Google as your "Home" page on IE (Internet Explorer... and possibly other browsers), you can personalize it which then takes the name of iGoogle but still has a Google URL. Anyhow, if you add gadgets to your home page, do a search for 'aquarium' and you'll see many options to add a virtual aquarium to your home page. Even the Monterey Bay Public Aquarium has a live webcam gadget so you can watch "real" fish (7am to 7pm with feedings at 11:30 and 4) instead of the virtual aquariums that the other gadgets have... besides, all of the virtual aquariums are for saltwater fish anyhow. The "live" cam times out after 60 seconds so you'll have to refresh your home page to see the live fish more often and they plug their own website on the gadget where you can watch 7 other cams if you want. Heck... it beats working. LOL So.. is anybody stuffing an Oscar or Goldfish tomorrow.. instead of Turkey? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 5:19:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 5:22:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33637	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner

Petco sells aquarium safe gravel, and so do some online fish supply dealers. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we have > any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask the > feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she can > order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes a > little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be to > order it online ;) > And thanks about the info on running the tank without gravel, gives me > some time to find a better deal rather than spend 200 or more at the LFS > for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as much >> as >> they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of their "homes". >> It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well gravel >> hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass bottomed >> tank. >> That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" >> days. >> >> When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local >> landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. or >> would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but anyhow.. >> check >> out your local landscape or rock companies for pea gravel. They should >> sell >> it in various sizes and it would be much cheaper to buy it in bulk from >> them, rather than "aquarium gravel" which costs more just because of the >> name. Just rinse the gravel really well, regardless of your choice, put >> it >> in a colander. Slowly lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will >> minimize the stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first >> (well.. not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove >> any detritus/poop first. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under >> Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner >> >> The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show >> signs of >> fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing any signs). I >> have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to keep the water >> clean, and >> I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow (day off), but I don't plan on >> taking >> any of the carbon out yet (was going to use it to help establish the 125 >> gallon once I get it cleaned). Thankfully the new tank also came with >> media >> for the filter (brand new unopened) that can be used with freshwater (not >> just saltwater like the tank was being used for). All I need to figure >> out >> for the new tank is gravel. >> >> Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel that >> was in >> it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have crushed coral in it >> from looking at it, or something similar at least)? Then add gravel >> later as >> I can get it? >> >> Amber >> >> Raymond Wetzel wrote: >> > >> > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those areas >> > dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have hubby tip >> > it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time and >> > concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. >> > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. >> > >> > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. If >> > they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the >> > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it >> > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it once >> > and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; it's >> > effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although it's >> > somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. This >> > may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't say for >> > sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will at least >> > get limited results from this, but it may not effect a complete cure. >> > It will take more time as its not designed for use against >> > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your >> > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either a >> > broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. >> > >> > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for >> > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is also >> > very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's KanaPlex), >> > Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn II), Maracyn >> > Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's >> > Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either broad-spectrum antibiotics or >> > gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite the names >> > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and >> > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will affect >> > your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative bacteria, >> > you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to something more >> > effective, you want to remove as much as the old med as possible, >> > either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your filter. In this way, >> > you won't be mixing medications. While Melafix is good for minor >> > bacterial problems, its not effective against a diseasse such as this. >> > Ray >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with hot >> > > water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy for >> > me to >> > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 >> > lbs, if >> > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have >> > big >> > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. >> > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to let >> > it >> > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I >> > filled >> > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and >> > if I >> > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper >> > > towel's to let the vinegar soak. >> > > >> > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a >> > very >> > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice that >> > my >> > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the >> > antibiotic, >> > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the meds >> > > helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again last >> > night >> > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC >> > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with >> > just >> > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. >> > >> > > >> > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water and >> > > > then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your >> > mineral >> > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though >> > this >> > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. >> > > > >> > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a >> > point >> > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then >> > > > said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger >> > > > treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain >> > water >> > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked >> > paper >> > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in >> > direct >> > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be >> > able >> > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto >> > > > these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it >> > works. >> > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely >> > > > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down to >> > > > ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not >> > run >> > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a >> > > > while to give it time to act. >> > > > >> > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a gram- >> > > > positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for >> > the >> > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin >> > will >> > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER case >> > of >> > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If you >> > > > still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either >> > > > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below >> > 7.5) >> > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also >> > > > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised by >> > > > the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray >> > > > >> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" >> > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather >> > > > sprayed or >> > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one >> > pane >> > > > at a time >> > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the >> > > > vinegar, then >> > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long >> > > > depends on how >> > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only >> > > > make it too >> > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually >> > > > around 5% >> > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so it's >> > > > already >> > > > > diluted with water. >> > > > > >> > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to >> > follow the >> > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not >> > treating >> > > > them >> > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of >> > > > bacteria that >> > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these bacteria >> > > > will build >> > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. This >> > > > is how the >> > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" >> > flying >> > > > ones down >> > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL >> > > > > >> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder >> > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side >> > under >> > > > Archives >> > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM >> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% >> > 40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner >> > > > > >> > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets >> > out >> > > > of the >> > > > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS >> > > > suggested >> > > > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still >> > haven't >> > > > moved into >> > > > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't >> > > > find him, >> > > > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the >> > > > bacteria >> > > > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make >> > sure >> > > > it didn't >> > > > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, >> > but 2 >> > > > doses (1 >> > > > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up >> > and >> > > > as long as >> > > > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far >> > all >> > > > the >> > > > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's >> > that >> > > > I'm still >> > > > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching >> > to >> > > > melafix >> > > > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. >> > > > > >> > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used >> > hot >> > > > water >> > > > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go >> > down >> > > > and see >> > > > > how it's doing shortly. >> > > > > >> > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') and >> > > > then >> > > > > > even 25' >> > > > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches >> > > > every >> > > > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental >> > effect >> > > > on >> > > > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the >> > package >> > > > may >> > > > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be >> > > > prepared to >> > > > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the >> > treatment. >> > > > Thank >> > > > > > God for that Python! >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder >> > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced >> > > > above >> > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives >> > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) >> > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber >> > > > Berglund >> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM >> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% >> > > > 40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel >> > cleaner >> > > > can >> > > > > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even >> > have to >> > > > > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean >> > the >> > > > 125 >> > > > > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have >> > > > attachments in >> > > > > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes with the >> > > > kit. I >> > > > > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to >> > > > clean my >> > > > > > tanks (yay!). >> > > > > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it >> > doesn't >> > > > suck >> > > > > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much >> > about it >> > > > > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel >> > > > washer >> > > > > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck >> > up >> > > > gravel >> > > > > > if I don't pay enough attention. >> > > > > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt >> > > > deposits >> > > > > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I >> > > > soaked it >> > > > > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to >> > everyone >> > > > who >> > > > > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). >> > > > > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are >> > starting >> > > > to >> > > > > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of >> > fin & >> > > > tail >> > > > > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly >> > getting >> > > > > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after >> > work too >> > > > > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time >> > > > around >> > > > > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it >> > right >> > > > now, >> > > > > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to >> > look >> > > > > > around for the box. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Amber >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : >> Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 >> Tested on: 11/26/2008 4:13:06 PM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33638	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@... wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > Okay, so I am starting a south american themed tank (I've tried this before > but real life got in the way and th project was aborted several times). In > terms of fish, there will be several species of tetra and a few corys (sterbai > and albinos). My fiance wants a larger fish in the tank that she can call > her own. My own research has turned up a little so lets go to the > expert...what fish can be put in there that has a little size which she can claim that > WONT eat my tetra. I have a 75 gallon tank. temp will be in the 70-72 range > and ph around 7.6 it seems. > > thanks > > Ken > **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > AOL.com. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new- dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33639	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: biocube

Very attractive crap, it comes with a built in undergravel filter, problem number one, problem number two, no place for a heater, so unless your house is warm all year long no tropicals leaving you with goldfish which bring us back to problem number one. For goldfish a undergravel filter is unacceptable it will definitely not clean the water or remove the waist in enough time for the waist to deteriorate the water. It is interesting looking quite attractive but its crap. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > Any thoughts on the BioCube? I have one, but I'm not sure I love it. > Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33640	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page

Thanks Lenny, Watching a diver feed the fish under water right now. California time 4:16 PM. I spent part of my Honeymoon in Monterey, the Aquarium was probably the best part of the honeymoon ;) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 3:22 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] FW: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page I'm checking out the Penguin live cam right now and it's feeding time... 3 p.m. (Cali time). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:19 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page If anyone is using Google as your "Home" page on IE (Internet Explorer... and possibly other browsers), you can personalize it which then takes the name of iGoogle but still has a Google URL. Anyhow, if you add gadgets to your home page, do a search for 'aquarium' and you'll see many options to add a virtual aquarium to your home page. Even the Monterey Bay Public Aquarium has a live webcam gadget so you can watch "real" fish (7am to 7pm with feedings at 11:30 and 4) instead of the virtual aquariums that the other gadgets have... besides, all of the virtual aquariums are for saltwater fish anyhow. The "live " cam times out after 60 seconds so you'll have to refresh your home page to see the live fish more often and they plug their own website on the gadget where you can watch 7 other cams if you want. Heck... it beats working. LOL So.. is anybody stuffing an Oscar or Goldfish tomorrow.. instead of Turkey? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 5:19:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 5:22:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33641	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish

Hmmmm? Perhaps a Uaru? http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Uaru_amphiacanthoides.html I have a single Uaru at the moment, I am searching for other fish to keep with him/her. This fish used to be in a tank near my bed and it would interact with me like a very shy Oscar. I miss the interation and it has become more shy since the tank it is in has taken residency in my fish room. Your question prompted me to look into them some more and now I see I have some fish I can keep him with. Not the flashiest fish and according to the Mongabay link(thanks Lenny) it seems they are not super aggressive. -Mike Hi Guys, Okay, so I am starting a south american themed tank (I've tried this before but real life got in the way and th project was aborted several times). In terms of fish, there will be several species of tetra and a few corys (sterbai and albinos). My fiance wants a larger fish in the tank that she can call her own. My own research has turned up a little so lets go to the expert...what fish can be put in there that has a little size which she can claim that WONT eat my tetra. I have a 75 gallon tank. temp will be in the 70-72 range and ph around 7.6 it seems. thanks Ken -----Original Message----- From: Iksnip@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:50 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Large South American Tank Fish Hi Guys, Okay, so I am starting a south american=2 0themed tank (I've tried this before but real life got in the way and th project was aborted several times). In terms of fish, there will be several species of tetra and a few corys (sterbai and albinos). My fiance wants a larger fish in the tank that she can call her own. My own research has turned up a little so lets go to the expert...what fish can be put in there that has a little size which she can claim that WONT eat my tetra. I have a 75 gallon tank. temp will be in the 70-72 range and ph around 7.6 it seems. thanks Ken **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33642	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: FW: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page

LOL. I was watching that too just now. Before that, I was watching them feed the Penguins on the Penguin cam. They were pretty funny. A couple of them would climb the rocks to get closer to the staff member and one was even on the rocks above her face and every once in a while it would lean down to try and get her attention... all you could see is it's beak poking down from the top of the cam image. Eventually, it gave up and waddled down to a rock on her left side and caught her attention to get some food. Reminds me of my dog at the dinner table. He'll move from one side of my chair to the other side trying to get my attention when begging for a scrap. LOL Sorry to hear about your honeymoon. Not a good sign! LOL So... were you tempted to push her into the shark tank? LOL My goldfish are still hiding in the back of their tank, behind some plants. I guess they read my joke about stuffing a goldfish for tomorrow. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] FW: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page Thanks Lenny, Watching a diver feed the fish under water right now. California time 4:16 PM. I spent part of my Honeymoon in Monterey, the Aquarium was probably the best part of the honeymoon ;) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 3:22 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] FW: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page I'm checking out the Penguin live cam right now and it's feeding time... 3 p.m. (Cali time). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ] Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:19 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: iGoogle Virtual Aquarium on your "Home" page If anyone is using Google as your "Home" page on IE (Internet Explorer... and possibly other browsers), you can personalize it which then takes the name of iGoogle but still has a Google URL. Anyhow, if you add gadgets to your home page, do a search for 'aquarium' and you'll see many options to add a virtual aquarium to your home page. Even the Monterey Bay Public Aquarium has a live webcam gadget so you can watch "real" fish (7am to 7pm with feedings at 11:30 and 4) instead of the virtual aquariums that the other gadgets have... besides, all of the virtual aquariums are for saltwater fish anyhow. The "live " cam times out after 60 seconds so you'll have to refresh your home page to see the live fish more often and they plug their own website on the gadget where you can watch 7 other cams if you want. Heck... it beats working. LOL So.. is anybody stuffing an Oscar or Goldfish tomorrow.. instead of Turkey? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 6:36:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33643	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: biocube

Perhaps we're thinking of different things. Mine has a carbon filter, something they call "bioballs" which may be a relative of undergravel filtration, and a sponge filter in the wet-dry section. I've had no problem placing a heater in the tank. I'm more concerned about the shape (cube-ish rather than squat) limiting oxygenation of the water, both in terms of surface area and the logistics of placing an airstone without a lot of splashing and leaking.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33644	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny

Thank you all again for your help. I can't get Bio spera here. And i won't order it over the Internet.   Besides, i am almost broke this week. Bills to pay and money i owe people. Etc...    So i will sit out the 4 week period anyway. By then i should have enough money saved up again to get my first additions to my then (hopefully) cycled tank.   I think my first additions are going to be some sunset platies. But not before i get some live plants of some kind. and maybe some driftwood.   Oh! And i managed to get a blurry photo of my otherwise rather elusive kuhli this morning. I will post the photo in my album later today.   Lisa Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33645	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny

Hi Lisa, Platy's, Moons such as Sunset, Dawns are great to start with and hardy. Beautiful fish and cheap. I love them. Don't get worried if they stay still for a while. Seems they rest but when they get wound up it could be a lively tank. I enjoy mine. Just a little chart link  Im sending to all all that I have. A friendly gift.  http://www.jackspets.com/pet_tips/freshwatermoon.htm Philip --- On Wed, 11/26/08, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 8:21 PM Thank you all again for your help. I can't get Bio spera here. And i won't order it over the Internet.   Besides, i am almost broke this week. Bills to pay and money i owe people. Etc...    So i will sit out the 4 week period anyway. By then i should have enough money saved up again to get my first additions to my then (hopefully) cycled tank.   I think my first additions are going to be some sunset platies. But not before i get some live plants of some kind. and maybe some driftwood.   Oh! And i managed to get a blurry photo of my otherwise rather elusive  kuhli this morning. I will post the photo in my album later today.   Lisa Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs yahoo.com/ homepageset/ ?p1=other& p2=au&p3= tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33646	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, have > her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. It's > better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure it's not > too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or burrowers. She > should > also be able to order large sacks of pea gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or > larger and that would be much cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS > or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any > sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask the > feed/hardware > store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she can order stuff for a > decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes a little while to get > here, > but the price is better than it would be to order it online ;) And thanks > about the info on running the tank without gravel, gives me some time to > find a better deal rather than spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough > gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove any > > detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > > > The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show > > signs of fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing > > any signs). I have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to keep > > the water clean, and I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow (day off), > > but I don't plan on taking any of the carbon out yet (was going to use > > it to help establish the 125 gallon once I get it cleaned). Thankfully > > the new tank also came with media for the filter (brand new unopened) > > that can be used with freshwater (not just saltwater like the tank was > > being used for). All I need to figure out for the new tank is gravel. > > > > Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel that > > was in it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have crushed > > coral in it from looking at it, or something similar at least)? Then > > add gravel later as I can get it? > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those areas > > > dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have hubby > > > tip it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time and > > > concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. > > > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. > > > > > > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. If > > > they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the > > > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it > > > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it > > > once and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; > > > it's effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although > > > it's somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. > > > This may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't > > > say for sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will > > > at least get limited results from this, but it may not effect a > complete > cure. > > > It will take more time as its not designed for use against > > > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your > > > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either a > > > broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. > > > > > > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for > > > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is > > > also very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's > > > KanaPlex), Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn > > > II), Maracyn Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator > > > and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either broad-spectrum > > > antibiotics or gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite the names > > > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and > > > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will > > > affect your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative > > > bacteria, you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to > > > something more effective, you want to remove as much as the old med > > > as possible, either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your > > > filter. In this way, you won't be mixing medications. While Melafix > > > is good for minor bacterial problems, its not effective against a > diseasse such as this. > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with > > > > hot water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy > > > > for > > > me to > > > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 > > > lbs, if > > > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have > > > big > > > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > > > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to > > > > let > > > it > > > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I > > > filled > > > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and > > > if I > > > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper > > > > towel's to let the vinegar soak. > > > > > > > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a > > > very > > > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice > > > > that > > > my > > > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the > > > antibiotic, > > > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the > > > > meds helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again > > > > last > > > night > > > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > > > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with > > > just > > > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water > > > > > and then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your > > > mineral > > > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though > > > this > > > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > > > > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a > > > point > > > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then > > > > > said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger > > > > > treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain > > > water > > > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked > > > paper > > > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in > > > direct > > > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be > > > able > > > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto > > > > > these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it > > > works. > > > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely > > > > > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side down > > > > > to ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does > > > > > not > > > run > > > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a > > > > > while to give it time to act. > > > > > > > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a > > > > > gram- positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if > > > > > anything, for > > > the > > > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin > > > will > > > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER > > > > > case > > > of > > > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If > > > > > you still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either > > > > > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below > > > 7.5) > > > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also > > > > > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is advertised > > > > > by the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather > > > > > sprayed or > > > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one > > > pane > > > > > at a time > > > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > > > > vinegar, then > > > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > > > > depends on how > > > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only > > > > > make it too > > > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually > > > > > around 5% > > > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so > > > > > > it's > > > > > already > > > > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to > > > follow the > > > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not > > > treating > > > > > them > > > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of > > > > > bacteria that > > > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > will build > > > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. > > > > > > This > > > > > is how the > > > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" > > > flying > > > > > ones down > > > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > >> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > under > > > > > Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets > > > out > > > > > of the > > > > > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the > > > > > > LFS > > > > > suggested > > > > > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still > > > haven't > > > > > moved into > > > > > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I > > > > > > can't > > > > > find him, > > > > > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with > > > > > > the > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make > > > sure > > > > > it didn't > > > > > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, > > > but 2 > > > > > doses (1 > > > > > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up > > > and > > > > > as long as > > > > > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So > > > > > > far > > > all > > > > > the > > > > > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's > > > that > > > > > I'm still > > > > > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am > > > > > > switching > > > to > > > > > melafix > > > > > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used > > > hot > > > > > water > > > > > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go > > > down > > > > > and see > > > > > > how it's doing shortly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and 50') > > > > > > > and > > > > > then > > > > > > > even 25' > > > > > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also > > > > > > > reaches > > > > > every > > > > > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental > > > effect > > > > > on > > > > > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the > > > package > > > > > may > > > > > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be > > > > > prepared to > > > > > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the > > > treatment. > > > > > Thank > > > > > > > God for that Python! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 > Tested on: 11/26/2008 4:42:41 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33647	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner

I don't want to have to order it online because I will be getting around 140 lbs of gravel and that's going to cost a lot to have sent here. I'm trying to find a local (and hopefully cheaper) way to get it in town, my LFS wants to sell it to me for around $30 a bag (for 20lbs in each bag). Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > Petco sells aquarium safe gravel, and so do some online fish supply > dealers. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we have > > any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask the > > feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she can > > order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes a > > little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be to > > order it online ;) > > And thanks about the info on running the tank without gravel, gives me > > some time to find a better deal rather than spend 200 or more at the LFS > > for enough gravel for the tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >> Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > much > >> as > >> they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of their > "homes". > >> It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > gravel > >> hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass bottomed > >> tank. > >> That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > >> days. > >> > >> When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > >> landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. or > >> would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but anyhow.. > >> check > >> out your local landscape or rock companies for pea gravel. They should > >> sell > >> it in various sizes and it would be much cheaper to buy it in bulk from > >> them, rather than "aquarium gravel" which costs more just because > of the > >> name. Just rinse the gravel really well, regardless of your choice, > put > >> it > >> in a colander. Slowly lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will > >> minimize the stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom > first > >> (well.. not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to > remove > >> any detritus/poop first. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > >> Archives > >> - Year, Month and under Labels) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > >> > >> The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show > >> signs of > >> fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing any > signs). I > >> have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to keep the water > >> clean, and > >> I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow (day off), but I don't plan on > >> taking > >> any of the carbon out yet (was going to use it to help establish > the 125 > >> gallon once I get it cleaned). Thankfully the new tank also came with > >> media > >> for the filter (brand new unopened) that can be used with > freshwater (not > >> just saltwater like the tank was being used for). All I need to figure > >> out > >> for the new tank is gravel. > >> > >> Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel that > >> was in > >> it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have crushed coral > in it > >> from looking at it, or something similar at least)? Then add gravel > >> later as > >> I can get it? > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> Raymond Wetzel wrote: > >> > > >> > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those areas > >> > dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have hubby tip > >> > it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time and > >> > concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. > >> > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. > >> > > >> > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. If > >> > they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the > >> > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it > >> > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it once > >> > and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; it's > >> > effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although it's > >> > somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. This > >> > may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't say for > >> > sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will at least > >> > get limited results from this, but it may not effect a complete cure. > >> > It will take more time as its not designed for use against > >> > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your > >> > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either a > >> > broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. > >> > > >> > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for > >> > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is also > >> > very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's KanaPlex), > >> > Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn II), Maracyn > >> > Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's > >> > Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either broad-spectrum antibiotics or > >> > gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite the names > >> > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and > >> > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will affect > >> > your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative bacteria, > >> > you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to something more > >> > effective, you want to remove as much as the old med as possible, > >> > either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your filter. In this > way, > >> > you won't be mixing medications. While Melafix is good for minor > >> > bacterial problems, its not effective against a diseasse such as > this. > >> > Ray > >> > > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with hot > >> > > water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy for > >> > me to > >> > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 > >> > lbs, if > >> > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have > >> > big > >> > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > >> > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to let > >> > it > >> > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I > >> > filled > >> > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and > >> > if I > >> > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper > >> > > towel's to let the vinegar soak. > >> > > > >> > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a > >> > very > >> > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice that > >> > my > >> > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the > >> > antibiotic, > >> > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the meds > >> > > helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again last > >> > night > >> > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > >> > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with > >> > just > >> > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with > water and > >> > > > then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your > >> > mineral > >> > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though > >> > this > >> > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > >> > > > > >> > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a > >> > point > >> > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then > >> > > > said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger > >> > > > treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain > >> > water > >> > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked > >> > paper > >> > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in > >> > direct > >> > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be > >> > able > >> > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto > >> > > > these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it > >> > works. > >> > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely > >> > > > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side > down to > >> > > > ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not > >> > run > >> > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a > >> > > > while to give it time to act. > >> > > > > >> > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a > gram- > >> > > > positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for > >> > the > >> > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin > >> > will > >> > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER case > >> > of > >> > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). > If you > >> > > > still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either > >> > > > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below > >> > 7.5) > >> > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also > >> > > > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is > advertised by > >> > > > the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray > >> > > > > >> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > >> > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather > >> > > > sprayed or > >> > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one > >> > pane > >> > > > at a time > >> > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > >> > > > vinegar, then > >> > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > >> > > > depends on how > >> > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only > >> > > > make it too > >> > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually > >> > > > around 5% > >> > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so > it's > >> > > > already > >> > > > > diluted with water. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to > >> > follow the > >> > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not > >> > treating > >> > > > them > >> > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of > >> > > > bacteria that > >> > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these > bacteria > >> > > > will build > >> > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. > This > >> > > > is how the > >> > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" > >> > flying > >> > > > ones down > >> > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > >> > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> > >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > >> > under > >> > > > Archives > >> > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > >> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM > >> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > >> > 40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets > >> > out > >> > > > of the > >> > > > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the LFS > >> > > > suggested > >> > > > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still > >> > haven't > >> > > > moved into > >> > > > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I can't > >> > > > find him, > >> > > > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with the > >> > > > bacteria > >> > > > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make > >> > sure > >> > > > it didn't > >> > > > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, > >> > but 2 > >> > > > doses (1 > >> > > > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up > >> > and > >> > > > as long as > >> > > > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So far > >> > all > >> > > > the > >> > > > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's > >> > that > >> > > > I'm still > >> > > > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am switching > >> > to > >> > > > melafix > >> > > > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used > >> > hot > >> > > > water > >> > > > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go > >> > down > >> > > > and see > >> > > > > how it's doing shortly. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and > 50') and > >> > > > then > >> > > > > > even 25' > >> > > > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also reaches > >> > > > every > >> > > > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental > >> > effect > >> > > > on > >> > > > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the > >> > package > >> > > > may > >> > > > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be > >> > > > prepared to > >> > > > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the > >> > treatment. > >> > > > Thank > >> > > > > > God for that Python! > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > >> > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >>> > > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced > >> > > > above > >> > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > >> > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > >> > > > Berglund > >> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM > >> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > >> > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel > >> > cleaner > >> > > > can > >> > > > > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even > >> > have to > >> > > > > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean > >> > the > >> > > > 125 > >> > > > > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have > >> > > > attachments in > >> > > > > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes > with the > >> > > > kit. I > >> > > > > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to > >> > > > clean my > >> > > > > > tanks (yay!). > >> > > > > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it > >> > doesn't > >> > > > suck > >> > > > > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much > >> > about it > >> > > > > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal gravel > >> > > > washer > >> > > > > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck > >> > up > >> > > > gravel > >> > > > > > if I don't pay enough attention. > >> > > > > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt > >> > > > deposits > >> > > > > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I > >> > > > soaked it > >> > > > > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to > >> > everyone > >> > > > who > >> > > > > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). > >> > > > > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are > >> > starting > >> > > > to > >> > > > > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of > >> > fin & > >> > > > tail > >> > > > > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly > >> > getting > >> > > > > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after > >> > work too > >> > > > > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this time > >> > > > around > >> > > > > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it > >> > right > >> > > > now, > >> > > > > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time to > >> > look > >> > > > > > around for the box. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Amber > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > >> Outbound message clean. > >> > >> Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 > >> Tested on: 11/26/2008 4:13:06 PM > >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33648	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner

Well, that's true - that would cost wherever you got it! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner >I don't want to have to order it online because I will be getting around > 140 lbs of gravel and that's going to cost a lot to have sent here. I'm > trying to find a local (and hopefully cheaper) way to get it in town, my > LFS wants to sell it to me for around $30 a bag (for 20lbs in each bag). > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> Petco sells aquarium safe gravel, and so do some online fish supply >> dealers. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@... >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner >> >> > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we >> > have >> > any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask the >> > feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she can >> > order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes a >> > little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be to >> > order it online ;) >> > And thanks about the info on running the tank without gravel, gives me >> > some time to find a better deal rather than spend 200 or more at the >> > LFS >> > for enough gravel for the tank. >> > >> > Amber >> > >> > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> >> Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as >> much >> >> as >> >> they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of their >> "homes". >> >> It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well >> gravel >> >> hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass bottomed >> >> tank. >> >> That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the >> >> "old" >> >> days. >> >> >> >> When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local >> >> landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. >> >> or >> >> would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but anyhow.. >> >> check >> >> out your local landscape or rock companies for pea gravel. They should >> >> sell >> >> it in various sizes and it would be much cheaper to buy it in bulk >> >> from >> >> them, rather than "aquarium gravel" which costs more just because >> of the >> >> name. Just rinse the gravel really well, regardless of your choice, >> put >> >> it >> >> in a colander. Slowly lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This >> >> will >> >> minimize the stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom >> first >> >> (well.. not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to >> remove >> >> any detritus/poop first. >> >> >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under >> >> Archives >> >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM >> >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner >> >> >> >> The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show >> >> signs of >> >> fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing any >> signs). I >> >> have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to keep the water >> >> clean, and >> >> I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow (day off), but I don't plan on >> >> taking >> >> any of the carbon out yet (was going to use it to help establish >> the 125 >> >> gallon once I get it cleaned). Thankfully the new tank also came with >> >> media >> >> for the filter (brand new unopened) that can be used with >> freshwater (not >> >> just saltwater like the tank was being used for). All I need to figure >> >> out >> >> for the new tank is gravel. >> >> >> >> Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel that >> >> was in >> >> it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have crushed coral >> in it >> >> from looking at it, or something similar at least)? Then add gravel >> >> later as >> >> I can get it? >> >> >> >> Amber >> >> >> >> Raymond Wetzel wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those areas >> >> > dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have hubby >> >> > tip >> >> > it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time and >> >> > concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. >> >> > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. >> >> > >> >> > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. If >> >> > they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the >> >> > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it >> >> > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it >> >> > once >> >> > and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; it's >> >> > effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although it's >> >> > somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. This >> >> > may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't say for >> >> > sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will at least >> >> > get limited results from this, but it may not effect a complete >> >> > cure. >> >> > It will take more time as its not designed for use against >> >> > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your >> >> > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either a >> >> > broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. >> >> > >> >> > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for >> >> > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is >> >> > also >> >> > very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's KanaPlex), >> >> > Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn II), Maracyn >> >> > Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's >> >> > Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either broad-spectrum antibiotics or >> >> > gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite the names >> >> > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and >> >> > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will >> >> > affect >> >> > your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative bacteria, >> >> > you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to something >> >> > more >> >> > effective, you want to remove as much as the old med as possible, >> >> > either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your filter. In this >> way, >> >> > you won't be mixing medications. While Melafix is good for minor >> >> > bacterial problems, its not effective against a diseasse such as >> this. >> >> > Ray >> >> > >> >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> >> >> wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with >> >> > > hot >> >> > > water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too heavy for >> >> > me to >> >> > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 >> >> > lbs, if >> >> > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may have >> >> > big >> >> > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. >> >> > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to >> >> > > let >> >> > it >> >> > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I >> >> > filled >> >> > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, and >> >> > if I >> >> > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using paper >> >> > > towel's to let the vinegar soak. >> >> > > >> >> > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have a >> >> > very >> >> > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice >> >> > > that >> >> > my >> >> > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the >> >> > antibiotic, >> >> > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the >> >> > > meds >> >> > > helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank again last >> >> > night >> >> > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC >> >> > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick with >> >> > just >> >> > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with >> water and >> >> > > > then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for your >> >> > mineral >> >> > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though >> >> > this >> >> > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a >> >> > point >> >> > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I then >> >> > > > said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the vineger >> >> > > > treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not contain >> >> > water >> >> > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked >> >> > paper >> >> > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in >> >> > direct >> >> > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to be >> >> > able >> >> > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly onto >> >> > > > these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while it >> >> > works. >> >> > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do absolutely >> >> > > > nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the next side >> down to >> >> > > > ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you pour it and does not >> >> > run >> >> > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for a >> >> > > > while to give it time to act. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a >> gram- >> >> > > > positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if anything, for >> >> > the >> >> > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin >> >> > will >> >> > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER >> >> > > > case >> >> > of >> >> > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). >> If you >> >> > > > still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use either >> >> > > > Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH is below >> >> > 7.5) >> >> > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will also >> >> > > > affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is >> advertised by >> >> > > > the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) not to. Ray >> >> > > > >> >> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" >> >> > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but rather >> >> > > > sprayed or >> >> > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating one >> >> > pane >> >> > > > at a time >> >> > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the >> >> > > > vinegar, then >> >> > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long >> >> > > > depends on how >> >> > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will only >> >> > > > make it too >> >> > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is usually >> >> > > > around 5% >> >> > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so >> it's >> >> > > > already >> >> > > > > diluted with water. >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to >> >> > follow the >> >> > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not >> >> > treating >> >> > > > them >> >> > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains of >> >> > > > bacteria that >> >> > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these >> bacteria >> >> > > > will build >> >> > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. >> This >> >> > > > is how the >> >> > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" >> >> > flying >> >> > > > ones down >> >> > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder >> >> > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> >> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> >> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side >> >> > under >> >> > > > Archives >> >> > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >> >> > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> >> > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> >> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:00 PM >> >> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% >> >> > 40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > Well I couldn't find the box but I did find one of the packets >> >> > out >> >> > > > of the >> >> > > > > box, and I used API erythromycin. It's what the lady at the >> >> > > > > LFS >> >> > > > suggested >> >> > > > > for tough cases, and it's safe for my frog (which I still >> >> > haven't >> >> > > > moved into >> >> > > > > the 10 gallon since everytime I think about netting him I >> >> > > > > can't >> >> > > > find him, >> >> > > > > LOL). Thanks for telling me that they can cause issues with >> >> > > > > the >> >> > > > bacteria >> >> > > > > (good kind) in my tank, I will keep an eye on things to make >> >> > sure >> >> > > > it didn't >> >> > > > > mess anything up. I didn't do 4 doses like the box suggests, >> >> > but 2 >> >> > > > doses (1 >> >> > > > > dose a day), I figured it would help start clearing things up >> >> > and >> >> > > > as long as >> >> > > > > I keep the tank clean the fish should recover just fine. So >> >> > > > > far >> >> > all >> >> > > > the >> >> > > > > other fish are doing great and are happy, it's my 2 gourami's >> >> > that >> >> > > > I'm still >> >> > > > > watching, and they are recovering slowly so far. I am >> >> > > > > switching >> >> > to >> >> > > > melafix >> >> > > > > since it's (cheaper for one) and safe for my good bacteria. >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > I have the 125 gallon soaking vinegar water right now (I used >> >> > hot >> >> > > > water >> >> > > > > hoping it might get the stuff off a little easier), gonna go >> >> > down >> >> > > > and see >> >> > > > > how it's doing shortly. >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Python sells several lengths (most common are 25' and >> 50') and >> >> > > > then >> >> > > > > > even 25' >> >> > > > > > extensions if needed. I have a 50' Python and it also >> >> > > > > > reaches >> >> > > > every >> >> > > > > > spot I need from my "guest" bathroom in the hall. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Remember that stronger antibiotics may have a detrimental >> >> > effect >> >> > > > on >> >> > > > > > your nitrifying bacteria as well (regardless to what the >> >> > package >> >> > > > may >> >> > > > > > say) so keep an eye on the ammonia/nitrite readings and be >> >> > > > prepared to >> >> > > > > > do PWC's to keep them at low enough levels during the >> >> > treatment. >> >> > > > Thank >> >> > > > > > God for that Python! >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder >> >> > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> >> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >>> >> >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > >>> > >> >> > > > (Links to articles referenced >> >> > > > above >> >> > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives >> >> > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- >> >> > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber >> >> > > > Berglund >> >> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:59 PM >> >> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% >> >> > > > 40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python gravel cleaner >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Perhaps I just have a "short" house, but my python gravel >> >> > cleaner >> >> > > > can >> >> > > > > > reach anywhere in my house from just 1 sink, I don't even >> >> > have to >> >> > > > > > unhook it from one sink and reattach it downstairs to clean >> >> > the >> >> > > > 125 >> >> > > > > > gallon. Not sure how long the hose is, it doesn't have >> >> > > > attachments in >> >> > > > > > the middle so it must be a standard length that comes >> with the >> >> > > > kit. I >> >> > > > > > ordered the quick-lock attachment so it'll be even easier to >> >> > > > clean my >> >> > > > > > tanks (yay!). >> >> > > > > > I was amazed at how quick it went, and it's great that it >> >> > doesn't >> >> > > > suck >> >> > > > > > up the water too fast as you don't have to worry so much >> >> > about it >> >> > > > > > sucking up a stray fish that gets too close. My normal >> >> > > > > > gravel >> >> > > > washer >> >> > > > > > has more sucking power than the python and it will even suck >> >> > up >> >> > > > gravel >> >> > > > > > if I don't pay enough attention. >> >> > > > > > I'm going to try the vinegar treatment on the algae and salt >> >> > > > deposits >> >> > > > > > after work today, I'll let you guys know how well it goes, I >> >> > > > soaked it >> >> > > > > > for 24 hours first so that may help at least. Thanks to >> >> > everyone >> >> > > > who >> >> > > > > > suggested it (I think it was Ray and Lenny). >> >> > > > > > My tank cloudiness has gone away and my 2 gourami's are >> >> > starting >> >> > > > to >> >> > > > > > perk up a little, they were the only ones showing signs of >> >> > fin & >> >> > > > tail >> >> > > > > > rot and after some meds and water changes they're slowly >> >> > getting >> >> > > > > > better. I'm out of melafix now and need to get some after >> >> > work too >> >> > > > > > *makes a mental note*. I used a stronger antibiotic this >> >> > > > > > time >> >> > > > around >> >> > > > > > to get them better, if I knew where the box was I'd name it >> >> > right >> >> > > > now, >> >> > > > > > if anyone is curious I'll post after work when I have time >> >> > > > > > to >> >> > look >> >> > > > > > around for the box. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Amber >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> >> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : >> >> Outbound message clean. >> >> >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081126-0, 11/26/2008 >> >> Tested on: 11/26/2008 4:13:06 PM >> >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >> Thank You. >> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >> > .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups >> > Links >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33649	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Eheim pro 2

Okay so the canister filter that came with my new tank is apparently an Eheim pro II. Does anyone have one of these and if so what are your thoughts on it? It looks rather nice and is rated for up to 158 gallons (277 gph). Here is a link I found. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Eheim_Pro_II_External_Canister_Filter_2028_with_Filter_Media___Installation_Kit_Saltwater_Aquarium_Fish__Coral___Reef_Supplies_Water_Filters_for_Saltwater_Aquariums_Canister_Filters_for_Aquariums_Canister_Filters_for_Tanks_Over_100_Gallons~vendor~Eheim~SearchStr~eh2026k+eh2028k~action~view~idProduct~EH2028K~idCategory~FIFRCFOH.html Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33650	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel > > cleaner > > > > The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show > > signs of fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing > > any signs). I have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to > > keep the water clean, and I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow > > (day off), but I don't plan on taking any of the carbon out yet (was > > going to use it to help establish the 125 gallon once I get it > > cleaned). Thankfully the new tank also came with media for the > > filter (brand new unopened) that can be used with freshwater (not > > just saltwater like the tank was being used for). All I need to figure out for the new tank is gravel. > > > > Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel > > that was in it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have > > crushed coral in it from looking at it, or something similar at > > least)? Then add gravel later as I can get it? > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those > > > areas dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have > > > hubby tip it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time > > > and concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. > > > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. > > > > > > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. > > > If they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the > > > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it > > > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it > > > once and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; > > > it's effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although > > > it's somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. > > > This may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't > > > say for sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will > > > at least get limited results from this, but it may not effect a > complete > cure. > > > It will take more time as its not designed for use against > > > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your > > > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either > > > a broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. > > > > > > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for > > > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is > > > also very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's > > > KanaPlex), Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn > > > II), Maracyn Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus > > > Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either > > > broad-spectrum antibiotics or gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite > > > the names > > > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and > > > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will > > > affect your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative > > > bacteria, you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to > > > something more effective, you want to remove as much as the old > > > med as possible, either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your > > > filter. In this way, you won't be mixing medications. While > > > Melafix is good for minor bacterial problems, its not effective > > > against a > diseasse such as this. > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with > > > > hot water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too > > > > heavy for > > > me to > > > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 > > > lbs, if > > > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may > > > > have > > > big > > > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > > > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to > > > > let > > > it > > > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I > > > filled > > > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, > > > > and > > > if I > > > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using > > > > paper towel's to let the vinegar soak. > > > > > > > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have > > > > a > > > very > > > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice > > > > that > > > my > > > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the > > > antibiotic, > > > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the > > > > meds helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank > > > > again last > > > night > > > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > > > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick > > > > with > > > just > > > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water > > > > > and then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for > > > > > your > > > mineral > > > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though > > > this > > > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > > > > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a > > > point > > > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I > > > > > then said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the > > > > > vineger treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not > > > > > contain > > > water > > > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked > > > paper > > > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in > > > direct > > > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to > > > > > be > > > able > > > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly > > > > > onto these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while > > > > > it > > > works. > > > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do > > > > > absolutely nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the > > > > > next side down to ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you > > > > > pour it and does not > > > run > > > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for > > > > > a while to give it time to act. > > > > > > > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a > > > > > gram- positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if > > > > > anything, for > > > the > > > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin > > > will > > > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER > > > > > case > > > of > > > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If > > > > > you still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use > > > > > either Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH > > > > > is below > > > 7.5) > > > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will > > > > > also affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is > > > > > advertised by the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, > > > > > Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but > > > > > > rather > > > > > sprayed or > > > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating > > > > > > one > > > pane > > > > > at a time > > > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > > > > vinegar, then > > > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > > > > depends on how > > > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will > > > > > > only > > > > > make it too > > > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is > > > > > > usually > > > > > around 5% > > > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so > > > > > > it's > > > > > already > > > > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to > > > follow the > > > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not > > > treating > > > > > them > > > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains > > > > > > of > > > > > bacteria that > > > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > will build > > > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. > > > > > > This > > > > > is how the > > > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" > > > flying > > > > > ones down > > > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 9:21:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33651	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim pro 2

Eheim's are nice high quality filter systems.... too rich for my blood though. When I was shopping for canister filters a few years ago, I had to go with the Rena Filstar's since they were less than 1/2 the price of comparable Eheim's... but if money was no object, I'd be willing to spend it on an Eheim. Your deal on that used tank and system is getting better and better every day. I paid around $80.00 for my Rena Filstar 2 that is about the same rating as that model Eheim.. so you can see why I went with the Rena Filstar's. Obviously, like with all filter systems, you can't base it on the tank size they recommend. They all seem to oversell their filter's abilities. You have to look at the gallons per hour and the size of the reservoir for filter media and head pressure, etc.. 277gph would not be enough for a 158G tank.. and not enough for a 125G tank either, IMO. That could be part of the problem the previous owners had if that is all they had on the 125G SW tank. You need at least 2X and for bigger fish, closer to 5X or even 10X. Of course, with a planted tank, you may not need as much filtration since the plants will help. That filter would only provide 2X for a 138G tank.. which is the bare minimum that I would go with for a FW planted tank that is lightly stocked with smaller fish or fish that do not like a lot of current. Were you planning on a second filter system for the BIG tank? I would.. even if it's an AquaClear HOB just to give you redundancy in the event one of the filter motors ever failed. You don't want to lose all your fish when you could have an AC-70 for $50.00 (or less) as added filtration and as a reliable back-up to the Eheim. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim pro 2 Okay so the canister filter that came with my new tank is apparently an Eheim pro II. Does anyone have one of these and if so what are your thoughts on it? It looks rather nice and is rated for up to 158 gallons (277 gph). Here is a link I found. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Eheim_Pro_II_External_Canist er_Filter_2028_with_Filter_Media___Installation_Kit_Saltwater_Aquarium_Fish_ _Coral___Reef_Supplies_Water_Filters_for_Saltwater_Aquariums_Canister_Filter s_for_Aquariums_Canister_Filters_for_Tanks_Over_100_Gallons~vendor~Eheim~Sea rchStr~eh2026k+eh2028k~action~view~idProduct~EH2028K~idCategory~FIFRCFOH.htm l <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Eheim_Pro_II_External_Canis ter_Filter_2028_with_Filter_Media___Installation_Kit_Saltwater_Aquarium_Fish __Coral___Reef_Supplies_Water_Filters_for_Saltwater_Aquariums_Canister_Filte rs_for_Aquariums_Canister_Filters_for_Tanks_Over_100_Gallons~vendor~Eheim~Se archStr~eh2026k+eh2028k~action~view~idProduct~EH2028K~idCategory~FIFRCFOH.ht ml> Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 9:34:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33652	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: biocube

Well my friend i believe your right, i was thinking of the Biorb and not the biocube so my apologies. However the crap rule still applies. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > Perhaps we're thinking of different things. Mine has a carbon filter, > something they call "bioballs" which may be a relative of undergravel > filtration, and a sponge filter in the wet-dry section. I've had no > problem placing a heater in the tank. I'm more concerned about the > shape (cube-ish rather than squat) limiting oxygenation of the water, > both in terms of surface area and the logistics of placing an airstone > without a lot of splashing and leaking. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33653	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim pro 2

I was actually toying with the idea of putting my magnum 350 on the tank with the other filter, and putting a new HOB filter on my 55 gallon, but it really wouldn't matter either way I go. So to answer your question, yes I was planning on getting a HOB either way and putting a 2nd filter on that tank. They actually had a sump setup as well that I got with the tank, it's still sitting in my car (smelling it up, LOL). The sump setup takes up a lot of space, not so sure I was going to use it, it needs a new power head according to the previous owner. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Eheim's are nice high quality filter systems.... too rich for my blood > though. When I was shopping for canister filters a few years ago, I had to > go with the Rena Filstar's since they were less than 1/2 the price of > comparable Eheim's... but if money was no object, I'd be willing to > spend it > on an Eheim. Your deal on that used tank and system is getting better and > better every day. I paid around $80.00 for my Rena Filstar 2 that is about > the same rating as that model Eheim.. so you can see why I went with the > Rena Filstar's. > > Obviously, like with all filter systems, you can't base it on the tank > size > they recommend. They all seem to oversell their filter's abilities. You > have to look at the gallons per hour and the size of the reservoir for > filter media and head pressure, etc.. 277gph would not be enough for a > 158G > tank.. and not enough for a 125G tank either, IMO. > > That could be part of the problem the previous owners had if that is all > they had on the 125G SW tank. You need at least 2X and for bigger fish, > closer to 5X or even 10X. Of course, with a planted tank, you may not need > as much filtration since the plants will help. That filter would only > provide 2X for a 138G tank.. which is the bare minimum that I would go > with > for a FW planted tank that is lightly stocked with smaller fish or > fish that > do not like a lot of current. > > Were you planning on a second filter system for the BIG tank? I would.. > even if it's an AquaClear HOB just to give you redundancy in the event one > of the filter motors ever failed. You don't want to lose all your fish > when > you could have an AC-70 for $50.00 (or less) as added filtration and as a > reliable back-up to the Eheim. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim pro 2 > > Okay so the canister filter that came with my new tank is apparently an > Eheim pro II. Does anyone have one of these and if so what are your > thoughts > on it? > It looks rather nice and is rated for up to 158 gallons (277 gph). > Here is a > link I found. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Eheim_Pro_II_External_Canist > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EEheim_Pro_II_External_Canist> > er_Filter_2028_with_Filter_Media___Installation_Kit_Saltwater_Aquarium_Fish_ > _Coral___Reef_Supplies_Water_Filters_for_Saltwater_Aquariums_Canister_Filter > s_for_Aquariums_Canister_Filters_for_Tanks_Over_100_Gallons~vendor~Eheim~Sea > rchStr~eh2026k+eh2028k~action~view~idProduct~EH2028K~idCategory~FIFRCFOH.htm > l > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Eheim_Pro_II_External_Canis > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EEheim_Pro_II_External_Canis> > ter_Filter_2028_with_Filter_Media___Installation_Kit_Saltwater_Aquarium_Fish > __Coral___Reef_Supplies_Water_Filters_for_Saltwater_Aquariums_Canister_Filte > rs_for_Aquariums_Canister_Filters_for_Tanks_Over_100_Gallons~vendor~Eheim~Se > archStr~eh2026k+eh2028k~action~view~idProduct~EH2028K~idCategory~FIFRCFOH.ht > ml> > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 > Tested on: 11/26/2008 9:34:59 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33654	From: Lisa	Date: 11/26/2008
Subject: Re: Tank cycle question---Lenny

Thanks for the link Phillip. They are some beautiful examples. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33655	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner

I would really - REALLY - urge you not to attempt to add your substrate later. It would be an absolute mess and besides you should take your time and set up this tank the way you will want it for a long time. Patience is key to planning the substrate - perhaps adding plant substrate, the color of the gravel/sand, rocks and hiding places, plant placement, etc. Heck - you haven't even gotten the algae off the glass yet, lol. Barbara In a message dated 11/26/2008 4:38:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, amber@... writes: Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel that was in it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have crushed coral in it from looking at it, or something similar at least)? Then add gravel later as I can get it? Amber **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33656	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel > > cleaner > > > > The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show > > signs of fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing > > any signs). I have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to > > keep the water clean, and I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow > > (day off), but I don't plan on taking any of the carbon out yet (was > > going to use it to help establish the 125 gallon once I get it > > cleaned). Thankfully the new tank also came with media for the > > filter (brand new unopened) that can be used with freshwater (not > > just saltwater like the tank was being used for). All I need to figure out for the new tank is gravel. > > > > Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel > > that was in it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have > > crushed coral in it from looking at it, or something similar at > > least)? Then add gravel later as I can get it? > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those > > > areas dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have > > > hubby tip it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time > > > and concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. > > > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. > > > > > > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. > > > If they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the > > > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it > > > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it > > > once and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; > > > it's effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although > > > it's somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. > > > This may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't > > > say for sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will > > > at least get limited results from this, but it may not effect a > complete > cure. > > > It will take more time as its not designed for use against > > > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your > > > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either > > > a broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. > > > > > > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for > > > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is > > > also very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's > > > KanaPlex), Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn > > > II), Maracyn Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus > > > Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either > > > broad-spectrum antibiotics or gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite > > > the names > > > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and > > > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will > > > affect your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative > > > bacteria, you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to > > > something more effective, you want to remove as much as the old > > > med as possible, either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your > > > filter. In this way, you won't be mixing medications. While > > > Melafix is good for minor bacterial problems, its not effective > > > against a > diseasse such as this. > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with > > > > hot water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too > > > > heavy for > > > me to > > > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 > > > lbs, if > > > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may > > > > have > > > big > > > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > > > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to > > > > let > > > it > > > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I > > > filled > > > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, > > > > and > > > if I > > > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using > > > > paper towel's to let the vinegar soak. > > > > > > > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have > > > > a > > > very > > > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice > > > > that > > > my > > > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the > > > antibiotic, > > > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the > > > > meds helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank > > > > again last > > > night > > > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > > > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick > > > > with > > > just > > > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water > > > > > and then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for > > > > > your > > > mineral > > > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though > > > this > > > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > > > > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a > > > point > > > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I > > > > > then said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the > > > > > vineger treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not > > > > > contain > > > water > > > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked > > > paper > > > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in > > > direct > > > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to > > > > > be > > > able > > > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly > > > > > onto these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while > > > > > it > > > works. > > > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do > > > > > absolutely nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the > > > > > next side down to ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you > > > > > pour it and does not > > > run > > > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for > > > > > a while to give it time to act. > > > > > > > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a > > > > > gram- positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if > > > > > anything, for > > > the > > > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin > > > will > > > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER > > > > > case > > > of > > > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If > > > > > you still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use > > > > > either Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH > > > > > is below > > > 7.5) > > > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will > > > > > also affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is > > > > > advertised by the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, > > > > > Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but > > > > > > rather > > > > > sprayed or > > > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating > > > > > > one > > > pane > > > > > at a time > > > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > > > > vinegar, then > > > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > > > > depends on how > > > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will > > > > > > only > > > > > make it too > > > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is > > > > > > usually > > > > > around 5% > > > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so > > > > > > it's > > > > > already > > > > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to > > > follow the > > > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not > > > treating > > > > > them > > > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains > > > > > > of > > > > > bacteria that > > > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > will build > > > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. > > > > > > This > > > > > is how the > > > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" > > > flying > > > > > ones down > > > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 9:21:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33657	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank .> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 9:42:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33658	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: A

Lenny, Just before you wrote this post, I got yet another e-mail that is a duplicate of the original post from last night. No POP involved here. It comes directly to my mail server, right over there to my right. It has to be something with Yahoo! and this particular message, since I am not getting duplicates, triplicates, etc. of other messages coming in from Yahoo! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-t ank. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted- tank .> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ------------------<snip>-------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33659	From: onelvlady	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

I am also getting the same message at least 15 times. I assume it is a Yahoo glitch that will soon stop!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel > > cleaner > > > > The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show > > signs of fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing > > any signs). I have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to > > keep the water clean, and I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow > > (day off), but I don't plan on taking any of the carbon out yet (was > > going to use it to help establish the 125 gallon once I get it > > cleaned). Thankfully the new tank also came with media for the > > filter (brand new unopened) that can be used with freshwater (not > > just saltwater like the tank was being used for). All I need to figure out for the new tank is gravel. > > > > Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel > > that was in it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have > > crushed coral in it from looking at it, or something similar at > > least)? Then add gravel later as I can get it? > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those > > > areas dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have > > > hubby tip it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time > > > and concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 directions. > > > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. > > > > > > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. > > > If they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the > > > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it > > > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it > > > once and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; > > > it's effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although > > > it's somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. > > > This may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't > > > say for sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will > > > at least get limited results from this, but it may not effect a > complete > cure. > > > It will take more time as its not designed for use against > > > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your > > > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either > > > a broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. > > > > > > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for > > > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is > > > also very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's > > > KanaPlex), Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn > > > II), Maracyn Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus > > > Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either > > > broad-spectrum antibiotics or gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite > > > the names > > > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and > > > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will > > > affect your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative > > > bacteria, you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to > > > something more effective, you want to remove as much as the old > > > med as possible, either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your > > > filter. In this way, you won't be mixing medications. While > > > Melafix is good for minor bacterial problems, its not effective > > > against a > diseasse such as this. > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with > > > > hot water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too > > > > heavy for > > > me to > > > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 > > > lbs, if > > > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may > > > > have > > > big > > > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > > > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to > > > > let > > > it > > > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I > > > filled > > > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, > > > > and > > > if I > > > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using > > > > paper towel's to let the vinegar soak. > > > > > > > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have > > > > a > > > very > > > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice > > > > that > > > my > > > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the > > > antibiotic, > > > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the > > > > meds helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank > > > > again last > > > night > > > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > > > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick > > > > with > > > just > > > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water > > > > > and then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for > > > > > your > > > mineral > > > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though > > > this > > > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > > > > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a > > > point > > > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I > > > > > then said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the > > > > > vineger treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not > > > > > contain > > > water > > > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked > > > paper > > > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in > > > direct > > > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to > > > > > be > > > able > > > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly > > > > > onto these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while > > > > > it > > > works. > > > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do > > > > > absolutely nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the > > > > > next side down to ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you > > > > > pour it and does not > > > run > > > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for > > > > > a while to give it time to act. > > > > > > > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a > > > > > gram- positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if > > > > > anything, for > > > the > > > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin > > > will > > > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER > > > > > case > > > of > > > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If > > > > > you still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use > > > > > either Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH > > > > > is below > > > 7.5) > > > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will > > > > > also affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is > > > > > advertised by the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, > > > > > Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but > > > > > > rather > > > > > sprayed or > > > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating > > > > > > one > > > pane > > > > > at a time > > > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > > > > vinegar, then > > > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > > > > depends on how > > > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will > > > > > > only > > > > > make it too > > > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is > > > > > > usually > > > > > around 5% > > > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so > > > > > > it's > > > > > already > > > > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to > > > follow the > > > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not > > > treating > > > > > them > > > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains > > > > > > of > > > > > bacteria that > > > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > will build > > > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. > > > > > > This > > > > > is how the > > > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" > > > flying > > > > > ones down > > > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/26/2008 9:21:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33660	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Likewise I've only been getting one each emails so the problem must be on your end Dora. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Nov 27, 2008, at 9:42 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank .> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape..... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 9:42:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Hmmmm... two women getting the message 10+ times... two men only getting them once. Maybe Yahoo has figured out what us men have known for eons... you gotta tell 'em 10 times before they finally listen. LOL Alina, Amber... haven't heard from you two yet. ;-) Dang.. I've got my big spoon out stirring the pot this morning. LOL HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:06 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Likewise I've only been getting one each emails so the problem must be on your end Dora. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Nov 27, 2008, at 9:42 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank .> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank > > .> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape..... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 9:42:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:18:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:21:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33662	From: bill1433	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Not getting 10 of the same but a delivery problem maybe.  Get mail normal, then no mail and then a lot at one time.  Judging from postings times given within the message's I must conclude that there is trouble up the line somewhere?   Bill --- On Thu, 11/27/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 11:21 AM Hmmmm... two women getting the message 10+ times... two men only getting them once. Maybe Yahoo has figured out what us men have known for eons... you gotta tell 'em 10 times before they finally listen. LOL Alina, Amber... haven't heard from you two yet. ;-) Dang.. I've got my big spoon out stirring the pot this morning. LOL HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:06 AM To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Likewise I've only been getting one each emails so the problem must be on your end Dora. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Nov 27, 2008, at 9:42 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank. <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank ..> <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank > > ..> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape... .. I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 9:42:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:18:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:21:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33663	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Well.. sometimes you'll get several at once if the mods are sleeping or goofing off (sometimes they even work.. lol) so several messages could build up and all get approved at once. It would be nice if forums didn't have to be moderated but then we'd get bombarded with spam. There are always instances where a particular user of any email service might get an email that has been bouncing around in cyberspace for hours.. even days or weeks and Yahoo Groups have been known to have this happen more than once but I haven't seen any issues of getting multiple emails from any of my Yahoo Groups, over the years... that I didn't eventually attribute to my own email service/settings/rules. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Not getting 10 of the same but a delivery problem maybe. Get mail normal, then no mail and then a lot at one time. Judging from postings times given within the message's I must conclude that there is trouble up the line somewhere? Bill --- On Thu, 11/27/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 11:21 AM Hmmmm... two women getting the message 10+ times... two men only getting them once. Maybe Yahoo has figured out what us men have known for eons... you gotta tell 'em 10 times before they finally listen. LOL Alina, Amber... haven't heard from you two yet. ;-) Dang.. I've got my big spoon out stirring the pot this morning. LOL HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:06 AM To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Likewise I've only been getting one each emails so the problem must be on your end Dora. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Nov 27, 2008, at 9:42 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank. <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank ..> <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank > > ..> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape... .. I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:51:24 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33664	From: bill1433	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Now it seems ok.  This message got here 15 minutes after I sent it? Go figure.  Maybe a busy Holiday Time?   Bill --- On Thu, 11/27/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 11:34 AM Not getting 10 of the same but a delivery problem maybe.  Get mail normal, then no mail and then a lot at one time.  Judging from postings times given within the message's I must conclude that there is trouble up the line somewhere?   Bill --- On Thu, 11/27/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 11:21 AM Hmmmm... two women getting the message 10+ times... two men only getting them once. Maybe Yahoo has figured out what us men have known for eons... you gotta tell 'em 10 times before they finally listen. LOL Alina, Amber... haven't heard from you two yet. ;-) Dang.. I've got my big spoon out stirring the pot this morning. LOL HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:06 AM To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Likewise I've only been getting one each emails so the problem must be on your end Dora. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Nov 27, 2008, at 9:42 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank. <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank ...> <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank > > ...> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape... .. I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 9:42:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:18:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:21:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33665	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Wa

I wonder if I misspoke. I got multiple messages from atleast two people. It was just doing it a little worse to Lenny. However I'm on other Yahoo lists and got other mail, and nothing else came through more than once. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:58 AM Subject: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics} Lenny, Just before you wrote this post, I got yet another e-mail that is a duplicate of the original post from last night. No POP involved here. It comes directly to my mail server, right over there to my right. It has to be something with Yahoo! and this particular message, since I am not getting duplicates, triplicates, etc. of other messages coming in from Yahoo! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-t ank. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted- tank .> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ------------------<snip>------------------- ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33666	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Wa

Hmmmm... I haven't gotten any duplicates but I did just notice that Dora was replying to a post by \\Steve// and I didn't get the original message from \\Steve//. I guess the Yahoo servers and IT folks are eating their Thanksgiving dinner a little early (the servers just get little bytes.. lol)... or maybe someone spiked the Eggnog, which could be evident by the IT guys doing Pee-Wee Herman's Big Shoe dance and wearing lampshades.. man them IT folks can party! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics} I wonder if I misspoke. I got multiple messages from atleast two people. It was just doing it a little worse to Lenny. However I'm on other Yahoo lists and got other mail, and nothing else came through more than once. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:58 AM Subject: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics} Lenny, Just before you wrote this post, I got yet another e-mail that is a duplicate of the original post from last night. No POP involved here. It comes directly to my mail server, right over there to my right. It has to be something with Yahoo! and this particular message, since I am not getting duplicates, triplicates, etc. of other messages coming in from Yahoo! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-t <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-t> ank. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted- <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted- <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-> > tank .> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ------------------<snip>------------------- _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 11:11:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33667	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

No, because I'm only gettnig it on this list. Now, to be sure, a couple of people wrote of it happening to them on a different Yahoo list, and it wasn't happening there, either. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank .> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 9:42:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33668	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Lenny figured out how to harass Dora! LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Hmmmm... two women getting the message 10+ times... two men only getting them once. Maybe Yahoo has figured out what us men have known for eons... you gotta tell 'em 10 times before they finally listen. LOL Alina, Amber... haven't heard from you two yet. ;-) Dang.. I've got my big spoon out stirring the pot this morning. LOL HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:06 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Likewise I've only been getting one each emails so the problem must be on your end Dora. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Nov 27, 2008, at 9:42 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank .> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank > > .> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape..... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 9:42:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:18:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:21:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33669	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner

Barbara's python gravel post keeps multiple posting as well. I'm still getting them. Seems to be just those two messages. On my other Yahoo group where a similar complaint has come up, there is one particular message that is repeating, just to some people. And nearly everyone on tha tlist is female. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Maxmillionmaxcat@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 4:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner I would really - REALLY - urge you not to attempt to add your substrate later. It would be an absolute mess and besides you should take your time and set up this tank the way you will want it for a long time. Patience is key to planning the substrate - perhaps adding plant substrate, the color of the gravel/sand, rocks and hiding places, plant placement, etc. Heck - you haven't even gotten the algae off the glass yet, lol. Barbara In a message dated 11/26/2008 4:38:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, amber@... writes: Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel that was in it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have crushed coral in it from looking at it, or something similar at least)? Then add gravel later as I can get it? Amber **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33670	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Time differential may be due to moderation. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Nov 27, 2008, at 10:34 AM, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: Not getting 10 of the same but a delivery problem maybe. Get mail normal, then no mail and then a lot at one time. Judging from postings times given within the message's I must conclude that there is trouble up the line somewhere? Bill --- On Thu, 11/27/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 11:21 AM Hmmmm... two women getting the message 10+ times... two men only getting them once. Maybe Yahoo has figured out what us men have known for eons.... you gotta tell 'em 10 times before they finally listen. LOL Alina, Amber... haven't heard from you two yet. ;-) Dang.. I've got my big spoon out stirring the pot this morning. LOL HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:06 AM To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Likewise I've only been getting one each emails so the problem must be on your end Dora. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Nov 27, 2008, at 9:42 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> <mailto:tiggernut24 %40yahoo. com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank. <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank ..> <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2008/ 10/planted- tank-so-you- want-planted- tank > > ..> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > Hmm, landscape... ... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > their > "homes". > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > bottomed tank. > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > days. > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 9:42:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:18:15 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:21:46 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] : 6px 0; font-size: 77%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration: none; font-size: 130%; } #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0 8px; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding: 8px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: #628c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: 0; } .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; } blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} --> |**|-~--> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33671	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Lenny, FWIW, I haven't received any duplicate messages of yours, but I did receive a duplicate message of Dora's yesterday ("Petco sells aquarium safe gravel . . ") in reply to Amber's post. Hmmm, I wonder how many messages we can build THIS thread up to. Its starting to build up already (LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something > with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of > this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the > only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. > > If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your > substrate as one of the most important things to do. > > Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, > then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. > > For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and > look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to > my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want- planted-tank. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want- planted-tank > .> > html > > Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for > the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't > need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide > you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates > that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea > gravel. > > Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up > the tank for being a planted tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I > will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and > cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I > would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular > aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is > it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > > > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > > their > > "homes". > > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > > bottomed tank. > > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" > > > days. > > > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 > Tested on: 11/27/2008 9:42:51 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33672	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish

> From: Iksnip@... > Okay, so I am starting a south american themed tank (I've tried this before > but real life got in the way and th project was aborted several times). In > terms of fish, there will be several species of tetra and a few corys (sterbai > and albinos). My fiance wants a larger fish in the tank that she can call > her own. My own research has turned up a little so lets go to the > expert...what fish can be put in there that has a little size which she can > claim that WONT eat my tetra. I have a 75 gallon tank. temp will be in the 70-72 range and ph around 7.6 it seems. Ken, What kind of tetras? And how big is "big" for you? I have a 75 gallon that has 5 black neon, 4 glowlight tetras and 3 black skirt tetras. I have two female Bolivian Rams in there (compared to the tetras they're large *lol*) at around 3 1/2". My pH runs 7.5 - 7.6 however Rams like a tad warmer water than you're thinking I believe. My tank averages around 78F. Just my two cents. Jim PS. These are primarily peaceful cichlids, they just like to have their own territories. They don't bother the tetras (other than if they think they're intruding on their space, so to speak.) E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33673	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Actually Lenny I didn't even seem to get the post you sent below Dora's, so everyone else got it 10 times and I didn't get it it at all, LOL. Anyways, thanks for the links, I liked the 2nd one more, I didn't think to use regular gardening soil, I actually have a bag of black gold right now that should do the trick, I will have to get my hands one some gravel to use with it now, which will still be cheaper and good for the plants :) I got the tank clean last night and today we're going to move it into the house so I can start setting it up. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version > of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, > the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. > > If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your > substrate as one of the most important things to do. > > Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up > first, > then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. > > For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and > look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just > go to > my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank.> > html > > Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for > the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you > won't > need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you > decide > you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates > that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand > or pea > gravel. > > Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up > the tank for being a planted tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I > will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and > cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I > would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular > aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is > it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, > > have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. > > It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure > > it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or > > burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea > > gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much > > cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner > > > > Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we > > have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask > > the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she > > can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes > > a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be > > to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank > > without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than > > spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as > > > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of > > > their > > "homes". > > > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well > > > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass > > bottomed tank. > > > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the > "old" > > > days. > > > > > > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local > > > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. > > > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but > > > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea > > > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much > > > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" > > > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel > > > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly > > > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the > > > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. > > > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove > > > any detritus/poop first. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:34 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel > > > cleaner > > > > > > The gourami's are eating really well again, and they no longer show > > > signs of fin and tail rot (as well as none of the other fish showing > > > any signs). I have been doing a 25% PWC every few days so far to > > > keep the water clean, and I will be cleaning the filter tomorrow > > > (day off), but I don't plan on taking any of the carbon out yet (was > > > going to use it to help establish the 125 gallon once I get it > > > cleaned). Thankfully the new tank also came with media for the > > > filter (brand new unopened) that can be used with freshwater (not > > > just saltwater like the tank was being used for). All I need to figure > out for the new tank is gravel. > > > > > > Out of curiosity can I run the tank without gravel if the gravel > > > that was in it has extra stuff in it (which I'm sure it does have > > > crushed coral in it from looking at it, or something similar at > > > least)? Then add gravel later as I can get it? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, a spray bottle should work, provided you don't let those > > > > areas dry out between spraying. It probably would be best to have > > > > hubby tip it over on iys side so you could soak one pane at a time > > > > and concentrate on that -- then have him tip it the other 3 > directions. > > > > Paper towels work well in havig the vinegar just where you need it. > > > > > > > > I don't know how much of an issue your fishes' fin & tail rot is. > > > > If they still have this, water changes alone would kill it. If the > > > > disease is still seen on your fish, you'd do best in treating it > > > > properly, which means using a better medication to get rid of it > > > > once and for all. Erythromycin is not a broad-spectrum medication; > > > > it's effective primarily against gram positive bacteria, although > > > > it's somewhat (less) effective against some gram-negative bacteria. > > > > This may be why your Gourami's seem better today although I can't > > > > say for sure. You could stick with it to see the results; you will > > > > at least get limited results from this, but it may not effect a > > complete > > cure. > > > > It will take more time as its not designed for use against > > > > gram-negative bacteria, but the good thing is it won't affect your > > > > nitrifying bacteria. Better results will be had if you use either > > > > a broad-spectrum antibiotic or a gram-negative antibiotic. > > > > > > > > In addition to the medications I've mentioned, you could look for > > > > Triple-Sulfa, excellent against fin & tail rot. Oxolinic Acid is > > > > also very good against this. There's also Kanamycin (SeaChem's > > > > KanaPlex), Neomycin, Streptomycin, Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn > > > > II), Maracyn Plus (new), Jungle's Binox, Jungle's Fungus > > > > Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies; all either > > > > broad-spectrum antibiotics or gram-negative antibiotics. Dispite > > > > the names > > > > ("Fungus") of these last two, they both contain Nitrofurazone and > > > > Furadolizone -- very effective antibiotics. Most of these will > > > > affect your nitrifying bacteria as these also are gram-negative > > > > bacteria, you'll have to weigh that part. When switching meds to > > > > something more effective, you want to remove as much as the old > > > > med as possible, either through PWC's or with fresh carbon in your > > > > filter. In this way, you won't be mixing medications. While > > > > Melafix is good for minor bacterial problems, its not effective > > > > against a > > diseasse such as this. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I didn't soak it with vinegar water, I used a spray bottle with > > > > > hot water (a little) and mostly vinegar. The tank is way too > > > > > heavy for > > > > me to > > > > > tip over on my own, without any water in it it's still over 200 > > > > lbs, if > > > > > I tried moving it I'd probably drop it or fall down ;). I may > > > > > have > > > > big > > > > > burly arms but they aren't THAT burly, LOL. > > > > > After I sprayed with vinegar and scrubbed it a bit I decided to > > > > > let > > > > it > > > > > soak over night again (got tired of scrubbing, LOL). This time I > > > > filled > > > > > it with hot water to soak it, I will try again this afternoon, > > > > > and > > > > if I > > > > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using > > > > > paper towel's to let the vinegar soak. > > > > > > > > > > I will have to check to see what the LFS has for sale, they have > > > > > a > > > > very > > > > > limited selection (small store with mostly fish). I did notice > > > > > that > > > > my > > > > > fish (2 gourami's) did start to get better after I used the > > > > antibiotic, > > > > > but I suppose it's possible that my tank cleaning's before the > > > > > meds helped more than the meds did. I also cleaned the tank > > > > > again last > > > > night > > > > > (so it sat with meds in it for 2 1/2 days and then I did a PWC > > > > > yesterday). Should I go try to find a different med or stick > > > > > with > > > > just > > > > > keeping my tank cleaner? My PH is 6.2 - 6.4 usually. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, I hope you did not fill your 125 gallon tank with water > > > > > > and then add vinegar, expecting this would do something for > > > > > > your > > > > mineral > > > > > > deposits on the glass. By your post, it almost looks as though > > > > this > > > > > > is what you did. I did not say for you to do this. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did say to first fill the tank to soak the dried algae to a > > > > point > > > > > > where it might loosen somewhat to be more easily removed. I > > > > > > then said to lay the tank on each of its sides to give it the > > > > > > vineger treatment. Obviously, in doing so, the tank could not > > > > > > contain > > > > water > > > > > > in this position. I also mentioned you may use vinegar-soaked > > > > paper > > > > > > towels applied to the mineral deposits to keep the vinegar in > > > > direct > > > > > > contact. The reason for laying the tank on its side)s) is to > > > > > > be > > > > able > > > > > > to pour vinegar (full strength -- from the bottle) directly > > > > > > onto these encrusted sides, and allowing it to sit there while > > > > > > it > > > > works. > > > > > > Diluting the vinegar in 125 gallons of water will do > > > > > > absolutely nothing. Once one side is done, you can turn the > > > > > > next side down to ensure the vinegar stays puddled where you > > > > > > pour it and does not > > > > run > > > > > > off; allow it to stay in contact with the mineral deposits for > > > > > > a while to give it time to act. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Erythromycin, for all intents and purposes, this is a > > > > > > gram- positive antibiotic. This will do very little, if > > > > > > anything, for > > > > the > > > > > > fin & tail rot as this pathogen is gram-negative. Erythromycin > > > > will > > > > > > also negatively affect your nitrifying bacteria. Yet ANOTHER > > > > > > case > > > > of > > > > > > incompetence from the LFS help (even if it were the owner). If > > > > > > you still feel you need to treat your fin & tail rot, use > > > > > > either Oxytetracycline (note: not Tetracyline, unless your pH > > > > > > is below > > > > 7.5) > > > > > > or Furan II. As with most antibiotics, Oxytetracycline will > > > > > > also affect your beneficial bacteria, but the Furan II is > > > > > > advertised by the manufacturer (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, > > > > > > Inc.) not to. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you should have done "vinegar water" but > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > sprayed or > > > > > > > poured the vinegar full strength on the glass... treating > > > > > > > one > > > > pane > > > > > > at a time > > > > > > > by turning the tank on it's side to soak that pane with the > > > > > > vinegar, then > > > > > > > scrubbing it clean after it has soaked for a while. How long > > > > > > depends on how > > > > > > > bad the build-up is. Diluting the vinegar with water will > > > > > > > only > > > > > > make it too > > > > > > > weak of an acid to do any good. Plain white vinegar is > > > > > > > usually > > > > > > around 5% > > > > > > > solution and the pickling vinegar is around 20% solution so > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > already > > > > > > > diluted with water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When treating with any kinds of meds, it's always best to > > > > follow the > > > > > > > directions completely... especially with antibiotics. Not > > > > treating > > > > > > them > > > > > > > fully with the directed dose can lead to resistant strains > > > > > > > of > > > > > > bacteria that > > > > > > > might not be killed off by the 1/2 doses and then these > > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > will build > > > > > > > up a resistance to future treatments of that same medicine. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > is how the > > > > > > > cockroach will take over the world... especially the big 3" > > > > flying > > > > > > ones down > > > > > > > here in N'Awlins. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 > Tested on: 11/26/2008 9:21:19 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33674	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish

Are your rams more docile than semi-aggressive? My LFS says they are semi-aggressive but I've not read anywhere online that causes me to believe this. They have long finned bolivian rams out at my LFS right now that I would love to get a couple of later on, but I want them to fit in with at least one of my tanks ;) I will have 2 angels and 1 severum in the 125 gallon once it's set up, and the 55 gallon will have the rest of my community fish in it (7 glofish danio's, 5 flame tetras, 2 dwarf gourami's, 1 dwarf frog). Amber Springer,James C. wrote: > > > From: Iksnip@... <mailto:Iksnip%40aol.com> > > > Okay, so I am starting a south american themed tank (I've tried > this before > > but real life got in the way and th project was aborted several > times). In > > terms of fish, there will be several species of tetra and a few > corys (sterbai > > and albinos). My fiance wants a larger fish in the tank that she > can call > > her own. My own research has turned up a little so lets go to > the > > expert...what fish can be put in there that has a little size > which she can > > claim that WONT eat my tetra. I have a 75 gallon tank. temp > will be in the 70-72 range and ph around 7.6 it seems. > > Ken, > > What kind of tetras? And how big is "big" for you? I have a 75 gallon > that has 5 black neon, 4 glowlight tetras and 3 black skirt tetras. I > have two female Bolivian Rams in there (compared to the tetras they're > large *lol*) at around 3 1/2". > > My pH runs 7.5 - 7.6 however Rams like a tad warmer water than you're > thinking I believe. My tank averages around 78F. > > Just my two cents. > > Jim > > PS. These are primarily peaceful cichlids, they just like to have their > own territories. They don't bother the tetras (other than if they think > they're intruding on their space, so to speak.) > > E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and > any attachments are intended solely for the > addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged > information. If you are not the > intended recipient of this message or if this message has been > addressed to you in error, please > immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this > message and any attachments. If you > are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, > dissemination, distribution, copying, or > storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33675	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Fw: [moderatorcentral] Duplicate Message Bug

Being the Moderator of another group, I thought this may be of interest.   John in Nevada --- On Thu, 11/27/08, gordon_groups_pm <gordonst@...> wrote: From: gordon_groups_pm <gordonst@...> Subject: [moderatorcentral] Duplicate Message Bug To: moderatorcentral@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 11:41 AM We are aware of the duplicate message bug that is affecting some groups and are investigating the problem. If your group is experiencing this issue, please contact Customer Care and supply the following information: - Whether the messages are appearing multiple times in the archive or only in email. - Whether you are the only person experiencing the issue or whether most people in the group are getting the duplicates - Whether it is happening to all messages sent to the group or just specific ones (either way, provide the message numbers in the archive of the duplicating messages). - Provide the full headers of 2 (or more) copies of the duplicate messages. The headers, in particular, are vital for us to be able to effectively troubleshoot. This site http://www.fraudaid .com/find_ headers.htm# service provides useful information on how to get headers for many different email clients. And here is the URL for contacting Customer Care: http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ general.html Thank you for your help in troubleshooting this bug and our apologies for the duplicates to all affected groups. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33676	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish

Long finned rams may be ok, but I suggest steering clear of "Balloon" rams or other fish like that. You may end up with some of the same problems that fancy goldfish have. Messed up digestive systems etc. -Mike Are your rams more docile than semi-aggressive? My LFS says they are semi-aggressive but I've not read anywhere online that causes me to believe this. They have long finned bolivian rams out at my LFS right now that I would love to get a couple of later on, but I want them to fit in with at least one of my tanks ;) I will have 2 angels and 1 severum in the 125 gallon once it's set up, and the 55 gallon will have the rest of my community fish in it (7 glofish danio's, 5 flame tetras, 2 dwarf gourami's, 1 dwarf frog). Amber -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:27 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Large South American Tank Fish Are your rams more docile than semi-aggressive? My LFS says they are semi-aggressive but I've not read anywhere online that causes me to believe this. They have long finned bolivian rams out at my LFS right now that I would love to get a couple of later on, but I want them to fit in with at least one of my tanks ;) I will have 2 angels and 1 severum in the 125 gallon once it's set up, and the 55 gallon will have the rest of my community fish in it (7 glofish danio's, 5 flame tetras, 2 d warf gourami's, 1 dwarf frog). Amber Springer,James C. wrote: > > > From: Iksnip@... <mailto:Iksnip%40aol.com> > > > Okay, so I am starting a south american themed tank (I've tried > this before > > but real life got in the way and th project was aborted several > times). In > > terms of fish, there will be several species of tetra and a few > corys (sterbai > > and albinos). My fiance wants a larger fish in the tank that she > can call > > her own. My own research has turned up a little so lets go to > the > > expert...what fish can be put in there that has a little size > which she can > > claim that WONT eat my tetra. I have a 75 gallon tank. temp > will be in the 70-72 range and ph around 7.6 it seems. > > Ken, > > What kind of tetras? And how big is "big" for you? I have a 75 gallon > that has 5 black neon, 4 glowlight tetras and 3 black skirt tetras. I > have two female Bolivian Rams in there (compared to the tetras they're > large *lol*) at around 3 1/2". > > My pH runs 7.5 - 7.6 however Rams like a tad warmer water than you're > thinking I believe. My tank averages around 78F. > > Just my two cents. > > Jim > > PS. These are primarily peaceful cichlids, they just like to have their > own territories. They don't bother the tetras (other than if they think > they're intruding on their space, so to speak.) > > E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and > any attachments are intended solel y for the > addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged > information. If you are not the > intended recipient of this message or if this message has been > addressed to you in error, please > immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this > message and any attachments. If you > are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, > dissemination, distribution, copying, or > storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33677	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Question about making a planted tank

Okay, so if I wanted to get my planted tank started without putting gravel in it, can I put in soil for now until I get plants and gravel for it? Or should I wait until I have the plants to actually set the tank up with water in it? I wish I had read that link before I set up my 55 gallon tank (in September), I have regular gravel in there and am wondering how I could go about re-setting it up, I have a 5 gallon bucket that I could put all the fish in temporarily while messing around with the tank if I have to drain it and such. I would hate to have to go that far as taking all the gravel out to add soil and then putting gravel back in, at least then I would have extra gravel that I could then put in my big tank, LOL. Right now my 55 gallon has a good 3-4 inch layer of regular aquarium gravel. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33678	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Setting up the 125 gallon

I'm considering setting up the 125 gallon and transfering all the gravel from my 55 over to that one (over soil) and taking all the plants/fish currently in it, and then put the magnum 350 onto it, and the fluidized bed filter. Then I could re-set up the 55 gallon with soil and new gravel and just switch the filters back over one at a time and transfer fish slowly back over to the 55 gallon. What are your guys' thoughts? This seems like an easier way to get both tanks set up properly without causing damage to my bacteria/fish and all that... Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33679	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

You can't put gardening soil in a tank without covering it with gravel or sand or some other heavier substrate. The water will murky/dirty 100% of the time. This is why you need the pea gravel, decorative gravel or sand on top of the dirt. Something you could do for your 55G tank with a normal gravel substrate is to plant your plants in pots with a proper substrate. The disposable plastic sandwich type containers, about 2" high, from zip-loc work well for this. You can put 1" to 1 1/2" of soil in the plastic container.. cover it with some of your tank's gravel to the top... slowly add tank water to fill the container trying not to disturb the dirt too much in the container... put the lid on it burping all the air and excess water out of it.. sink it into your tank.. move your existing gravel to the side until the plastic container is on the bottom and then slowly remove the lid... plant your plant which will disturb the dirt a little but not too bad.. then level the rest of your gravel on top of the plastic container to cover it completely and you're done... and you just figured out how to put regular soil under your gravel without tearing up the tank or making a mess. Use the sandwich size containers for larger plants or the smaller round containers for smaller plants. Just remember NOT to vacuum the gravel deeply around your plants any more so you don't suck up all your good dirt. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 3:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about making a planted tank Okay, so if I wanted to get my planted tank started without putting gravel in it, can I put in soil for now until I get plants and gravel for it? Or should I wait until I have the plants to actually set the tank up with water in it? I wish I had read that link before I set up my 55 gallon tank (in September), I have regular gravel in there and am wondering how I could go about re-setting it up, I have a 5 gallon bucket that I could put all the fish in temporarily while messing around with the tank if I have to drain it and such. I would hate to have to go that far as taking all the gravel out to add soil and then putting gravel back in, at least then I would have extra gravel that I could then put in my big tank, LOL. Right now my 55 gallon has a good 3-4 inch layer of regular aquarium gravel. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 4:21:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon

Ooops.. I should have read this second email first. lol I just replied on how to make your 55G into a planted tank with soil under the gravel. You'll still need some kind of holding container to hold your fish while you are setting up the substrate in the 125G tank. It wouldn't be good to have the fish in the 55G while you are scooping out the gravel. Even if you vacuum the gravel well, there will still be a LOT of detritus mucking up the water in the tank. A slotted spoon or cat litter scoop works well for scooping up the gravel, put in into a colander in the tank, then lift the colander to let most of the dirty water drip off before moving the colander to the 125G to pour it over the soil base. Keep the filters running on where ever you have the fish. Move them when you move the fish. The clear plastic Sterilite storage boxes work well as temporary holding tanks... and then they double as regular clothes storage afterwards... until you need a Q-tank again... then the clothes get shoved into a garbage bag for storage under the bed again. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up the 125 gallon I'm considering setting up the 125 gallon and transfering all the gravel from my 55 over to that one (over soil) and taking all the plants/fish currently in it, and then put the magnum 350 onto it, and the fluidized bed filter. Then I could re-set up the 55 gallon with soil and new gravel and just switch the filters back over one at a time and transfer fish slowly back over to the 55 gallon. What are your guys' thoughts? This seems like an easier way to get both tanks set up properly without causing damage to my bacteria/fish and all that... Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 4:32:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33681	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon

I'm already in the process of filling up the 125 gallon tank after covering the soil with gravel (I only managed about 3/4" cover for now, but figure once I get the 55 gallon empty I can always add more gravel over it, it's not murky while I'm filling it so it seems like it will be enough. Thanks for the tips about moving the fish, I was using buckets so far ;) LOL. I figure I will just set up the 125 gallon and move all the fish over there with the current filters so that it should cycle pretty quick, I want to make sure the water is clear and everything tests fine before I move any fish though. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ooops.. I should have read this second email first. lol I just replied on > how to make your 55G into a planted tank with soil under the gravel. > > You'll still need some kind of holding container to hold your fish > while you > are setting up the substrate in the 125G tank. It wouldn't be good to have > the fish in the 55G while you are scooping out the gravel. Even if you > vacuum the gravel well, there will still be a LOT of detritus mucking > up the > water in the tank. A slotted spoon or cat litter scoop works well for > scooping up the gravel, put in into a colander in the tank, then lift the > colander to let most of the dirty water drip off before moving the > colander > to the 125G to pour it over the soil base. > > Keep the filters running on where ever you have the fish. Move them when > you move the fish. The clear plastic Sterilite storage boxes work well as > temporary holding tanks... and then they double as regular clothes storage > afterwards... until you need a Q-tank again... then the clothes get shoved > into a garbage bag for storage under the bed again. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 3:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up the 125 gallon > > I'm considering setting up the 125 gallon and transfering all the gravel > from my 55 over to that one (over soil) and taking all the plants/fish > currently in it, and then put the magnum 350 onto it, and the > fluidized bed > filter. Then I could re-set up the 55 gallon with soil and new gravel and > just switch the filters back over one at a time and transfer fish slowly > back over to the 55 gallon. > What are your guys' thoughts? This seems like an easier way to get both > tanks set up properly without causing damage to my bacteria/fish and all > that... > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 > Tested on: 11/27/2008 4:32:31 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33682	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon

Since you're asking for thoughts (and only since you're asking for thoughts), WHY would you want to use soil as a substrate for your 125 and 55 gallon tanks? Yes, what goes around comes around -- and this concept was in effect 70 to 80 years ago as a method of promoting good plant grow. It was soon learned by many that in practice, this was not a very good idea for a number of reasons. Recent ideas on this may have created a resurgence of this concept, although the drawbacks to this have not been diminished. I've learned early on, in much of the literature I've read over the years that while soil may be a fine idea in plant-only tanks (no fish), soil should not be used as a sub-stratum for plants in a fish- stocked tank; it will be all to soon found not to work out very well. Not only might it become fouled, but it's all to easy to unintentionally allow stirring up of clouds of this ultra-fine material when vacuuming the gravel substrate placed over it if you go a bit too deep. Stirred soil does not settle out very fast at all and will remain as clouding your water for a good length of time. Adding new plants to your tank will become problematic every time you disturb enough gravel as to expose and stir the soil underneath it. Having a deep layer of gravel over it to help prevent this problem partially negates the benefit for any plants that you put it in there for in the first place. Depending on what has previously been grown in the soil as a terrestrial medium, this soil may be of varying degrees of acidity or base -- eventually having a direct effect on the pH of your water. If for instance conifer trees were grown on this soil, with the many generations of broken down pine needles now mixed as part of this soil's make-up, your water will become quite acid in short time even though its not directly exposed to the soil; the gravel layer over it will not prevent this influence. On the other hand, if the soil is gathered from an area rich in limestone, you water may become quite alkaline. I've not yet gone into the leaching of the rich nutrients of the soil reaching through the gravel over top of it in time, into the water column, creating the most favorable conditions for the growth of algae. With the aquarium plants obtaining all the nutrients they'll need from the soil sub-stratum, there is no reason for them to use nutrients that are dissolved in the water, i.e., they will not compete with the algae to starve it out. By far the safest way to use soil in the aquarium is in separate flower pots covered by gravel, if you insists on using it at all, I realize you're looking for the most economical way of adding substrate to your tanks, but you're asking for trouble by adding soil over the entire bottom. You'd be better off using Eco Complete (Planted) or Flora-Max, although I don't know what the shipping costs would be. Unless you're planning on high-tech plants, you really don't need such a rich substrate such as soil. Most average plants found in the hobby do just fine in plain gravel. You may just want to push an occassional Plant-Tab down between the roots from time to time, which would be more than enough to supplement what they are ordinarily getting. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I'm considering setting up the 125 gallon and transfering all the gravel > from my 55 over to that one (over soil) and taking all the plants/fish > currently in it, and then put the magnum 350 onto it, and the fluidized > bed filter. Then I could re-set up the 55 gallon with soil and new > gravel and just switch the filters back over one at a time and transfer > fish slowly back over to the 55 gallon. > What are your guys' thoughts? This seems like an easier way to get both > tanks set up properly without causing damage to my bacteria/fish and all > that... > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33683	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Wa

Lenny, FYI, I got a few more of your message, last one time stamped at 2:22 PM EST, with a sent time stamp of 10:21 PM Wednesday, so Yahoo! was still burping them out until near mid-afternoon, at least. Scanning through a few headers, Yahoo! is sending each as a new instance each time, though the time stamp from your machine is the same for each instance as it is from gmail. Since I receive it direct from Yahoo! to my own mail server, the problem is entirely Yahoo!'s problem, and there is nothing we can do about it, since Yahoo! doesn't really care to hear about problems. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 12:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics} Hmmmm... I haven't gotten any duplicates but I did just notice that Dora was replying to a post by \\Steve// and I didn't get the original message from \\Steve//. I guess the Yahoo servers and IT folks are eating their Thanksgiving dinner a little early (the servers just get little bytes.. lol)... or maybe someone spiked the Eggnog, which could be evident by the IT guys doing Pee-Wee Herman's Big Shoe dance and wearing lampshades.. man them IT folks can party! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics} I wonder if I misspoke. I got multiple messages from atleast two people. It was just doing it a little worse to Lenny. However I'm on other Yahoo lists and got other mail, and nothing else came through more than once. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:58 AM Subject: Lenny's Messaging Problem [WAS:RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics} Lenny, Just before you wrote this post, I got yet another e-mail that is a duplicate of the original post from last night. No POP involved here. It comes directly to my mail server, right over there to my right. It has to be something with Yahoo! and this particular message, since I am not getting duplicates, triplicates, etc. of other messages coming in from Yahoo! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-t <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted- t> ank. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted- <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted- <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted- > > tank .> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up the tank for being a planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ------------------<snip>-------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33684	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon

I totally agree with you on this one Ray. I wanted to have a planted tank and went to a pond store where they sold me "Pond Mix" for planting plants in ponds. The person at the pond place assured me it would not cloud the water and would work fine as an aquarium substrate. Well the solid wall of brown water for 24 hours with no circulation told me otherwise. They had basically sold me dirt! I ended up covering it with "Schultz aquatic plant soil" which worked just fine. However any disturbance of this top layer results in another brown water aquarium. The reason I have never taken the time to break down the tank in the last two + years is there always seems to be some fish sitting on eggs or with fry. At the moment the tank has about 70 baby bristlenose scooting around in it. Here is a link for the Schultz aquatic plant soil. http://www.discountpond.com/_store/Display_Products.asp?prodID=Aqs25 " Holds plants firmly anchored in place all season. Retains oxygen and nutrients. Non-toxic. Neutral pH. Will not float or break down. Will not clog filters or pumps. Safe for all fish. Contains no peat moss or compost. Made from 100% Fuller’s Earth, a natural mineral that has been kiln fired to create ceramic granules. " This is not the best soil to use for a planted tank, I end up using it a lot as it is cheap and as the description says Neutral pH. Available at Walmart, Home depot, and most garden stores, sometimes much cheaper than aquarium gravel. You just=2 0have to like brown substrate :) -Mike I've learned early on, in much of the literature I've read over the years that while soil may be a fine idea in plant-only tanks (no fish), soil should not be used as a sub-stratum for plants in a fish- stocked tank; it will be all to soon found not to work out very well. Not only might it become fouled, but it's all to easy to unintentionally allow stirring up of clouds of this ultra-fine material when vacuuming the gravel substrate placed over it if you go a bit too deep. Stirred soil does not settle out very fast at all and will remain as clouding your water for a good length of time. Adding new plants to your tank will become problematic every time you disturb enough gravel as to expose and stir the soil underneath it. Having a deep layer of gravel over it to help prevent this problem partially negates the benefit for any plants that you put it in there for in the first place. -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 3:54 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up the 125 gallon Since you're asking for thoughts (and only since you're asking for thoughts), WHY would you want to use soil as a substrate for your 125 and 55 gallon tanks? Yes, what goes around comes around -- and this concept was in effect 70 to 80 years ago as a method of promoting good plant grow. It was soon=2 0learned by many that in practice, this was not a very good idea for a number of reasons. Recent ideas on this may have created a resurgence of this concept, although the drawbacks to this have not been diminished. I've learned early on, in much of the literature I've read over the years that while soil may be a fine idea in plant-only tanks (no fish), soil should not be used as a sub-stratum for plants in a fish- stocked tank; it will be all to soon found not to work out very well. Not only might it become fouled, but it's all to easy to unintentionally allow stirring up of clouds of this ultra-fine material when vacuuming the gravel substrate placed over it if you go a bit too deep. Stirred soil does not settle out very fast at all and will remain as clouding your water for a good length of time. Adding new plants to your tank will become problematic every time you disturb enough gravel as to expose and stir the soil underneath it. Having a deep layer of gravel over it to help prevent this problem partially negates the benefit for any plants that you put it in there for in the first place. Depending on what has previously been grown in the soil as a terrestrial medium, this soil may be of varying degrees of acidity or base -- eventually having a direct effect on the pH of your water. If for instance conifer trees were grown on this soil, with the many generations of broken down pine needles now mixed as part of this soil's make-up, your water will become quite acid in short time even though its not directly exposed to the soil; the gravel layer over it will not prevent this influence. On the other hand, if the soil is gathered from an area rich in limestone, you water may become quite alkaline. I've not yet gone into the leaching of the rich nutrients of the soil reaching through the gravel over top of it in time, into the water column, creating the most favorable conditions for the growth of algae. With the aquarium plants obtaining all the nutrients they'll need from the soil sub-stratum, there is no reason for them to use nutrients that are dissolved in the water, i.e., they will not compete with the algae to starve it out. By far the safest way to use soil in the aquarium is in separate flower pots covered by gravel, if you insists on using it at all, I realize you're looking for the most economical way of adding substrate to your tanks, but you're asking for trouble by adding soil over the entire bottom. You'd be better off using Eco Complete (Planted) or Flora-Max, although I don't know what the shipping costs would be. Unless you're planning on high-tech plants, you really don't need such a rich substrate such as soil. Most average plants found in the hobby do just fine in plain gravel. You may just want to push an occassional Plant-Tab down between the roots from time to time, which would be more than enough to supplement what they are20 ordinarily getting. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I'm considering setting up the 125 gallon and transfering all the gravel > from my 55 over to that one (over soil) and taking all the plants/fish > currently in it, and then put the magnum 350 onto it, and the fluidized > bed filter. Then I could re-set up the 55 gallon with soil and new > gravel and just switch the filters back over one at a time and transfer > fish slowly back over to the 55 gallon. > What are your guys' thoughts? This seems like an easier way to get both > tanks set up properly without causing damage to my bacteria/fish and all > that... > > Amber > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon

Ray, Amber's problem is that she lives on an island in Alaska and the cost of having a "good" substrate is very cost prohibitive. It was going to cost her $200.00 just for sand or aquarium gravel. We've been discussing many, many options for her for the past month or so and the best and most cost effective was the current solution. I'm sure she was able to get the soil at a low cost and use her existing 3-4" of gravel from her 55G as the top layer over the soil. I think Amber used the directions provided by Diana Walstad for a DIY substrate for a planted tank. Here is a summary of the directions.. How to set up a Walstad-type natural planted tank: Substrate: 1 to 1.5 inches of unsterilized garden soil, potting soil or topsoil with 1 to 1.5 inches of 2-4mm gravel on top. Don't use subsoils or clay soils from areas near brackish water. If the soil is acidic, you can use powdered dolomite lime mixed in. If you have soft water add pelleted dolomite lime, or crushed shells to gradually increase the level of hard water nutrients over time. She recommends not adding peat or fertilizers (including manure). Adding a small amount of well-decayed organic matter/compost is fine. You may want to set up a bottle test to see how much the soil yellows the water. Add a layer of soil and cover it with a layer of gravel and then add water being careful not to disturb the soil. Then let it sit for several weeks. Some soils leach more than others. When using bagged soil, it would be a good idea to spread it in a thin layer and let it air out over night to gas out ammonia. (END SNIP) More details here - http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTankDemo.html and here - http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/26458-what-el-natural -step-step.html Of course, Diana's book is also available for folks that like books! ;-) http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up the 125 gallon Since you're asking for thoughts (and only since you're asking for thoughts), WHY would you want to use soil as a substrate for your 125 and 55 gallon tanks? Yes, what goes around comes around -- and this concept was in effect 70 to 80 years ago as a method of promoting good plant grow. It was soon learned by many that in practice, this was not a very good idea for a number of reasons. Recent ideas on this may have created a resurgence of this concept, although the drawbacks to this have not been diminished. I've learned early on, in much of the literature I've read over the years that while soil may be a fine idea in plant-only tanks (no fish), soil should not be used as a sub-stratum for plants in a fish- stocked tank; it will be all to soon found not to work out very well. Not only might it become fouled, but it's all to easy to unintentionally allow stirring up of clouds of this ultra-fine material when vacuuming the gravel substrate placed over it if you go a bit too deep. Stirred soil does not settle out very fast at all and will remain as clouding your water for a good length of time. Adding new plants to your tank will become problematic every time you disturb enough gravel as to expose and stir the soil underneath it. Having a deep layer of gravel over it to help prevent this problem partially negates the benefit for any plants that you put it in there for in the first place. Depending on what has previously been grown in the soil as a terrestrial medium, this soil may be of varying degrees of acidity or base -- eventually having a direct effect on the pH of your water. If for instance conifer trees were grown on this soil, with the many generations of broken down pine needles now mixed as part of this soil's make-up, your water will become quite acid in short time even though its not directly exposed to the soil; the gravel layer over it will not prevent this influence. On the other hand, if the soil is gathered from an area rich in limestone, you water may become quite alkaline. I've not yet gone into the leaching of the rich nutrients of the soil reaching through the gravel over top of it in time, into the water column, creating the most favorable conditions for the growth of algae. With the aquarium plants obtaining all the nutrients they'll need from the soil sub-stratum, there is no reason for them to use nutrients that are dissolved in the water, i.e., they will not compete with the algae to starve it out. By far the safest way to use soil in the aquarium is in separate flower pots covered by gravel, if you insists on using it at all, I realize you're looking for the most economical way of adding substrate to your tanks, but you're asking for trouble by adding soil over the entire bottom. You'd be better off using Eco Complete (Planted) or Flora-Max, although I don't know what the shipping costs would be. Unless you're planning on high-tech plants, you really don't need such a rich substrate such as soil. Most average plants found in the hobby do just fine in plain gravel. You may just want to push an occassional Plant-Tab down between the roots from time to time, which would be more than enough to supplement what they are ordinarily getting. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I'm considering setting up the 125 gallon and transfering all the gravel > from my 55 over to that one (over soil) and taking all the plants/fish > currently in it, and then put the magnum 350 onto it, and the fluidized > bed filter. Then I could re-set up the 55 gallon with soil and new > gravel and just switch the filters back over one at a time and transfer > fish slowly back over to the 55 gallon. > What are your guys' thoughts? This seems like an easier way to get both > tanks set up properly without causing damage to my bacteria/fish and all > that... > > Amber > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 8:17:00 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33686	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon

Yes Lenny that's the directions I used, and exactly how I did it, LOL. You almost read my mind ;) It was very cheap to get the 125 gallon set up this way, and now I can get a different substrate for the 55 gallon and hopefully not have to spend too much, I was considering a normal "plant substrate" for it and putting new plants into it. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ray, > > Amber's problem is that she lives on an island in Alaska and the cost of > having a "good" substrate is very cost prohibitive. It was going to cost > her $200.00 just for sand or aquarium gravel. We've been discussing many, > many options for her for the past month or so and the best and most cost > effective was the current solution. I'm sure she was able to get the soil > at a low cost and use her existing 3-4" of gravel from her 55G as the top > layer over the soil. > > I think Amber used the directions provided by Diana Walstad for a DIY > substrate for a planted tank. > > Here is a summary of the directions.. > > How to set up a Walstad-type natural planted tank: > > Substrate: > 1 to 1.5 inches of unsterilized garden soil, potting soil or topsoil > with 1 > to 1.5 inches of 2-4mm gravel on top. Don't use subsoils or clay soils > from > areas near brackish water. If the soil is acidic, you can use powdered > dolomite lime mixed in. If you have soft water add pelleted dolomite lime, > or crushed shells to gradually increase the level of hard water nutrients > over time. She recommends not adding peat or fertilizers (including > manure). > Adding a small amount of well-decayed organic matter/compost is fine. You > may want to set up a bottle test to see how much the soil yellows the > water. > Add a layer of soil and cover it with a layer of gravel and then add water > being careful not to disturb the soil. Then let it sit for several weeks. > Some soils leach more than others. When using bagged soil, it would be a > good idea to spread it in a thin layer and let it air out over night > to gas > out ammonia. (END SNIP) > > More details here - > http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTankDemo.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTankDemo.html> > > and here - > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/26458-what-el-natural > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/26458-what-el-natural> > -step-step.html > > Of course, Diana's book is also available for folks that like books! ;-) > http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388.htm > <http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up the 125 gallon > > Since you're asking for thoughts (and only since you're asking for > thoughts), WHY would you want to use soil as a substrate for your 125 > and 55 > gallon tanks? Yes, what goes around comes around -- and this concept > was in > effect 70 to 80 years ago as a method of promoting good plant grow. It was > soon learned by many that in practice, this was not a very good idea for a > number of reasons. Recent ideas on this may have created a resurgence of > this concept, although the drawbacks to this have not been diminished. > > I've learned early on, in much of the literature I've read over the years > that while soil may be a fine idea in plant-only tanks (no fish), soil > should not be used as a sub-stratum for plants in a fish- stocked tank; it > will be all to soon found not to work out very well. Not only might it > become fouled, but it's all to easy to unintentionally allow stirring > up of > clouds of this ultra-fine material when vacuuming the gravel substrate > placed over it if you go a bit too deep. Stirred soil does not settle out > very fast at all and will remain as clouding your water for a good > length of > time. > Adding new plants to your tank will become problematic every time you > disturb enough gravel as to expose and stir the soil underneath it. > Having a deep layer of gravel over it to help prevent this problem > partially > negates the benefit for any plants that you put it in there for in the > first > place. > > Depending on what has previously been grown in the soil as a terrestrial > medium, this soil may be of varying degrees of acidity or base -- > eventually > having a direct effect on the pH of your water. > If for instance conifer trees were grown on this soil, with the many > generations of broken down pine needles now mixed as part of this soil's > make-up, your water will become quite acid in short time even though > its not > directly exposed to the soil; the gravel layer over it will not > prevent this > influence. On the other hand, if the soil is gathered from an area rich in > limestone, you water may become quite alkaline. > > I've not yet gone into the leaching of the rich nutrients of the soil > reaching through the gravel over top of it in time, into the water column, > creating the most favorable conditions for the growth of algae. With the > aquarium plants obtaining all the nutrients they'll need from the soil > sub-stratum, there is no reason for them to use nutrients that are > dissolved > in the water, i.e., they will not compete with the algae to starve it out. > > By far the safest way to use soil in the aquarium is in separate > flower pots > covered by gravel, if you insists on using it at all, I realize you're > looking for the most economical way of adding substrate to your tanks, but > you're asking for trouble by adding soil over the entire bottom. You'd be > better off using Eco Complete > (Planted) or Flora-Max, although I don't know what the shipping costs > would > be. Unless you're planning on high-tech plants, you really don't need > such a > rich substrate such as soil. Most average plants found in the hobby do > just > fine in plain gravel. You may just want to push an occassional Plant-Tab > down between the roots from time to time, which would be more than > enough to > supplement what they are ordinarily getting. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I'm considering setting up the 125 gallon and transfering all the > gravel > > from my 55 over to that one (over soil) and taking all the > plants/fish > > currently in it, and then put the magnum 350 onto it, and the > fluidized > > bed filter. Then I could re-set up the 55 gallon with soil and new > > gravel and just switch the filters back over one at a time and > transfer > > fish slowly back over to the 55 gallon. > > What are your guys' thoughts? This seems like an easier way to get > both > > tanks set up properly without causing damage to my bacteria/fish > and all > > that... > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 > Tested on: 11/27/2008 8:17:00 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33687	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: [moderatorcentral] Duplicate Message Bug

Thanks, John. I submitted headers from one of each of teh two posts that repeated. That was Lenny's post on Now sand - Was Antibiotics, and Maxmillionmaxcat's post on Antibiotics Was: Re: Python gravel cleaner. I actually found still more of Lenny's waiting when I got home. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN KD7POE" <dumont53@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fw: [moderatorcentral] Duplicate Message Bug Being the Moderator of another group, I thought this may be of interest. John in Nevada --- On Thu, 11/27/08, gordon_groups_pm <gordonst@...> wrote: From: gordon_groups_pm <gordonst@...> Subject: [moderatorcentral] Duplicate Message Bug To: moderatorcentral@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 11:41 AM We are aware of the duplicate message bug that is affecting some groups and are investigating the problem. If your group is experiencing this issue, please contact Customer Care and supply the following information: - Whether the messages are appearing multiple times in the archive or only in email. - Whether you are the only person experiencing the issue or whether most people in the group are getting the duplicates - Whether it is happening to all messages sent to the group or just specific ones (either way, provide the message numbers in the archive of the duplicating messages). - Provide the full headers of 2 (or more) copies of the duplicate messages. The headers, in particular, are vital for us to be able to effectively troubleshoot. This site http://www.fraudaid .com/find_ headers.htm# service provides useful information on how to get headers for many different email clients. And here is the URL for contacting Customer Care: http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ general.html Thank you for your help in troubleshooting this bug and our apologies for the duplicates to all affected groups. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33688	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Hello, My name is Jon and I live in Atlanta Ga. I have a BS in Biology. MS in Genetics and Ph.D in Microbiology and Biochemistry. I worked for the CDC in research for 15 years and recently took an early retirement. I now teach biology and Medical Microbiology at a local college part time. I have always wanted to have a salt water aquarium but due to the expense I started several time with fresh water aquariums. I had oscars for a long time but they eventually developed ick and died. I tried to keep the tank clean and spent major $$$$ on the Oscars and filters and supplioes, books, pH equipment, etc. One problem is that the fish tank smelled so bad and I was constantly changing the filter but the smell would not go away. Before I start on slat water is there a book or websites that would be helpful. Do salt water fish ( organisms )have health problems like freshwater? I would think that the osmotic pressure of the salt would help prevent many diseases. I really want to make a very nice tank. Can anyone recommend an aquarium with filter set up first? Has anyone purchased any of the slat water collections form Carolina Biological Supplies? Any and all suggestion will be appreciated. John Chance **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33689	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Hmmm ... Yahoo's technicians are being slow on the draw. This one just came through, even though it would have us believe that Lenny only sent it an hour ago. I clipped all but the first part; you all can readily see it's the same one! No, they aren't selectively repeating long posts; the one it repeated on another list where it is happening was just one paragraph. And I wasn't one of the ones getting multiples on that list. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. > > > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33690	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Hi John and welcome to the group. I can't help much with your saltwater questions but I (and others) can help you with your freshwater questions and hopefully one of the SW members will help you with any SW questions you may have. My first guess, without knowing anything about your previous Oscar tanks.. is that the tank(s) were probably much too small for an Oscar (that's the leading cause of problems for Oscar's and Goldfish.. putting BIG fish in undersized tanks). Once that happens, all of the other problems you describe are almost automatic. Was your previous tank at least 6' long and 75G++.. for a single Oscar? If not, that's probably the start of your problem(s). As far as any or all of the chemicals you were misled-led to purchase, 95% of the stuff they sell at pet stores, online sites, etc., are NOT needed 95% of the time. Always check out here to verify before you buy.. or at least before you open the stuff so you can bring it back when it's likely not needed or not the right stuff. To be successful with FW tanks, all that most people need are a basic dechlor product that also treats for heavy metals (I use either API's Tap Water Conditioner or TopFin's Tap Water Dechlorinator as they are both concentrated and much more cost effective than competitors products). Then, weekly 25% PWC's (partial water changes), gravel vacuuming and proper filter maintenance to keep the water quality in good shape. Of course, these preceding tips are best done after a new fishkeeper learns the basics of fish keeping and learns about the nitrogen cycle and how it works in aquaria. There are NO miracle chemicals that will eliminate the basic weekly maintenance that is needed for most tanks. Lightly stocked tanks might be able to go every two weeks. Heavily stocked tanks might need PWC's every day. On my blog article, "A to Z of Fishkeeping...", near the top of that blog, I cover the above issues with links to good articles about fishless cycling, the nitrogen cycle, etc. Even more important, I have two links to FREE online tutorials that will walk anyone through all of the basics of starting up a successful freshwater tank. These tutorials are from reputable websites. While on my A to Z page, also check out my blog on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning", which is another area that is commonly error prone for newbie's. What I do know about SW fish is that they have their own health issues and are even more sensitive to water quality issues than FW fish. This means.. if you had water quality issues with your FW fish, you'll be in much worse shape with SW fish. Of course, your water quality issues could have been because you got a lot of bad advice when starting out.. and there's plenty of that dispensed at all of the pet stores and even many of the LFS' (local fish stores) out there. While you would think they should know what they are doing... most don't! Most of them know very little about keeping fish healthy for the life of the fish. The stores are there to get them in and sell them.... and then when you have problems... they sell you more chemicals, medicines, junk, etc... and then sell you more fish when yours die because of their bad advice. It's a vicious cycle! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga Hello, My name is Jon and I live in Atlanta Ga. I have a BS in Biology. MS in Genetics and Ph.D in Microbiology and Biochemistry. I worked for the CDC in research for 15 years and recently took an early retirement. I now teach biology and Medical Microbiology at a local college part time. I have always wanted to have a salt water aquarium but due to the expense I started several time with fresh water aquariums. I had oscars for a long time but they eventually developed ick and died. I tried to keep the tank clean and spent major $$$$ on the Oscars and filters and supplioes, books, pH equipment, etc. One problem is that the fish tank smelled so bad and I was constantly changing the filter but the smell would not go away. Before I start on slat water is there a book or websites that would be helpful. Do salt water fish ( organisms )have health problems like freshwater? I would think that the osmotic pressure of the salt would help prevent many diseases. I really want to make a very nice tank. Can anyone recommend an aquarium with filter set up first? Has anyone purchased any of the slat water collections form Carolina Biological Supplies? Any and all suggestion will be appreciated. John Chance _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:46:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33691	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

You seem to be implying that Yahoo's technicians ever knew how to draw... much less be fast or slow on the draw. They can't be slow on the draw when they don't even know how to approach the drawing board. They probably couldn't color inside the lines as kids either. LOL I do use lots of Yahoo's services... because they are free. If I had to pay Yahoo for any of their services, I would run away screaming and hollering... while holding onto my wallet. LOL As bad as MS and MSN is thought or advertised to be by others (hint, hint.. the Apple dude), in a recent issue with an MSN Fish Group, I sent an online "contact us" form to MSN Groups and actually got a reply with a case number, etc., the next day and a MAJOR issue with the MSN Fish Group was actually resolved in a short time after a couple of emails back and forth. I've never gotten a reply from a "contact us" form with Yahoo... although I'll admit I haven't wasted my time contacting them any time recently.. I quit beating that dead horse a long time ago. Let us know if they actually reply... but don't hold your breath.. oh wait.. this is Dora! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Hmmm ... Yahoo's technicians are being slow on the draw. This one just came through, even though it would have us believe that Lenny only sent it an hour ago. I clipped all but the first part; you all can readily see it's the same one! No, they aren't selectively repeating long posts; the one it repeated on another list where it is happening was just one paragraph. And I wasn't one of the ones getting multiples on that list. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your substrate as one of the most important things to do. Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank .> html Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea gravel. > > > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:57:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33692	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

In a message dated 11/27/2008 11:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny, Thanks for the advise. Have you tried any of the "glow in the dark" genetically engineered fish developed by Carolina Biological Supply? They are not really expensive. I understand that the Japanese are selling them in Fish stores now. _http://www.carolina.com/_ (http://www.carolina.com/) Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33693	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

In a message dated 11/27/2008 11:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Was your previous tank at least 6' long and 75G++.. for a single Oscar? If not, that's probably the start of your problem(s). How big a tank would I need for 4 Oscars? Here is the information for the GloFish _http://www.carolina.com/_ (http://www.carolina.com/) GloFish product FA-14-5251 FA-14-5253 FA-14-5255 FA-14-5257 They are FW fish. I think I may restart with a fresh water tank. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33694	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/27/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some bogwood wuth java fern attached.   Lisa   Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33695	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon

Lenny, Yes, I realize Amber lives on an island in Alaska -- and that shipping costs can be prohibitive -- and is what I was getting at when I stated, "although I don't know what the shipping costs would be," in my last paragraph. I have been following much of Amber's plight in her getting this tank set up, but this soil thing is a rather sudden decision. Still, this should not be the ultimate consideration when setting up an aquarium, when more reasonably priced materials may not meet the requirements. Except for understood expenses, one has nothing to do with the other when addressing the needs of a successful aquarium. Since she is going to use 3" - 4" of aquarium gravel anyway, this amount of substrate would have been adequate, and consequentially much less potentially problematic even if not containing as much nutrient. This extra nutrient is not needed by most of our long time commonly established plants in the aquarium trade. If its buried under 4" of gravel, its not going to have much benefit for the plants anyway, until (unless) their roots grow to these depths. If the soil is not covered that deeply with gravel, she may well expect the perennial condition of brown water -- witness: Mike's subsequent post relating these same conditions when attempting the use of soil. I have nothing but the greatest respect for Diana Walstead's methods, but some of them do not go without their possible potential problems if sufficient care isn't given. As much respect I have for Diana Walstead's methods, I have even greater respect the long-standing directions and tried-&-true recommendations of Dr. William T. Innes, the father of our Aquarium Hobby, and although his technology may be more dated it will remain never the less sound -- and is contrary to any recommendations to use soil for a good number of reasons, which I've previously touched on. Diana's method for setting up a tank may not necessarily be condusive towards the mutual benefit of the plants and the fish ---- and the hobbyist! While I would not discount the merits of Diana's suggestions along these lines, I do see a number of caveats as pertains to Amber's situation. I notice Amber has stated the use of "garden soil." One of my concerns is whether she used some of her backyard soil, or whether she bought soil (I recall her saying she did not know if there was a landscape company in town). Has Amber tested the pH of this soil? Diana suggests adding powdered dolomite lime if the soil is acidic (a possible condition that I pointed out). I also pointed out the soil may be alkaline, possibly too alkaline for aquarium use if it's too high) As per your outline of Diana's methods, she (Diana) also recommends to set up a bottle test with soil, cover by gravel with water then added to see how much the soil will leach into the water, yellowing it (in Mike's case, "browning" it). This is to sit for several weeks. Amber hasn't done this and has set herself up with a recipe for disaster. If it turns out unsuccessful, which may be more the probability, there is no way of saving the gravel once it has been permeated by water-soaked-soil (read: mud), if it comes down to needing to remove the soil. If Amber has bought bagged soil (and I see nothing on that), has she first spread it in a thin layer to let it air out overnight to gas out the ammonia, as you have written of Diana's methods? The money spent on the gravel will be wasted if for any of these reasons it does not work out, not lending towards the most efficient way to set this tank up when considering trying to save money doing it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Amber's problem is that she lives on an island in Alaska and the cost of > having a "good" substrate is very cost prohibitive. It was going to cost > her $200.00 just for sand or aquarium gravel. We've been discussing many, > many options for her for the past month or so and the best and most cost > effective was the current solution. I'm sure she was able to get the soil > at a low cost and use her existing 3-4" of gravel from her 55G as the top > layer over the soil. > > I think Amber used the directions provided by Diana Walstad for a DIY > substrate for a planted tank. > > Here is a summary of the directions.. > > How to set up a Walstad-type natural planted tank: > > Substrate: > 1 to 1.5 inches of unsterilized garden soil, potting soil or topsoil with 1 > to 1.5 inches of 2-4mm gravel on top. Don't use subsoils or clay soils from > areas near brackish water. If the soil is acidic, you can use powdered > dolomite lime mixed in. If you have soft water add pelleted dolomite lime, > or crushed shells to gradually increase the level of hard water nutrients > over time. She recommends not adding peat or fertilizers (including manure). > Adding a small amount of well-decayed organic matter/compost is fine. You > may want to set up a bottle test to see how much the soil yellows the water. > Add a layer of soil and cover it with a layer of gravel and then add water > being careful not to disturb the soil. Then let it sit for several weeks. > Some soils leach more than others. When using bagged soil, it would be a > good idea to spread it in a thin layer and let it air out over night to gas > out ammonia. (END SNIP) > > More details here - > http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTankDemo.html > > and here - > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/26458-what- el-natural > -step-step.html > > Of course, Diana's book is also available for folks that like books! ;-) > http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up the 125 gallon > > Since you're asking for thoughts (and only since you're asking for > thoughts), WHY would you want to use soil as a substrate for your 125 and 55 > gallon tanks? Yes, what goes around comes around -- and this concept was in > effect 70 to 80 years ago as a method of promoting good plant grow. It was > soon learned by many that in practice, this was not a very good idea for a > number of reasons. Recent ideas on this may have created a resurgence of > this concept, although the drawbacks to this have not been diminished. > > I've learned early on, in much of the literature I've read over the years > that while soil may be a fine idea in plant-only tanks (no fish), soil > should not be used as a sub-stratum for plants in a fish- stocked tank; it > will be all to soon found not to work out very well. Not only might it > become fouled, but it's all to easy to unintentionally allow stirring up of > clouds of this ultra-fine material when vacuuming the gravel substrate > placed over it if you go a bit too deep. Stirred soil does not settle out > very fast at all and will remain as clouding your water for a good length of > time. > Adding new plants to your tank will become problematic every time you > disturb enough gravel as to expose and stir the soil underneath it. > Having a deep layer of gravel over it to help prevent this problem partially > negates the benefit for any plants that you put it in there for in the first > place. > > Depending on what has previously been grown in the soil as a terrestrial > medium, this soil may be of varying degrees of acidity or base -- eventually > having a direct effect on the pH of your water. > If for instance conifer trees were grown on this soil, with the many > generations of broken down pine needles now mixed as part of this soil's > make-up, your water will become quite acid in short time even though its not > directly exposed to the soil; the gravel layer over it will not prevent this > influence. On the other hand, if the soil is gathered from an area rich in > limestone, you water may become quite alkaline. > > I've not yet gone into the leaching of the rich nutrients of the soil > reaching through the gravel over top of it in time, into the water column, > creating the most favorable conditions for the growth of algae. With the > aquarium plants obtaining all the nutrients they'll need from the soil > sub-stratum, there is no reason for them to use nutrients that are dissolved > in the water, i.e., they will not compete with the algae to starve it out. > > By far the safest way to use soil in the aquarium is in separate flower pots > covered by gravel, if you insists on using it at all, I realize you're > looking for the most economical way of adding substrate to your tanks, but > you're asking for trouble by adding soil over the entire bottom. You'd be > better off using Eco Complete > (Planted) or Flora-Max, although I don't know what the shipping costs would > be. Unless you're planning on high-tech plants, you really don't need such a > rich substrate such as soil. Most average plants found in the hobby do just > fine in plain gravel. You may just want to push an occassional Plant-Tab > down between the roots from time to time, which would be more than enough to > supplement what they are ordinarily getting. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > I'm considering setting up the 125 gallon and transfering all the > gravel > > from my 55 over to that one (over soil) and taking all the > plants/fish > > currently in it, and then put the magnum 350 onto it, and the > fluidized > > bed filter. Then I could re-set up the 55 gallon with soil and new > > gravel and just switch the filters back over one at a time and > transfer > > fish slowly back over to the 55 gallon. > > What are your guys' thoughts? This seems like an easier way to get > both > > tanks set up properly without causing damage to my bacteria/fish > and all > > that... > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 > Tested on: 11/27/2008 8:17:00 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33696	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Lisa, By now I'm sure you've seen conflicting recommendations on this topic, some of them stemming from more recently utilized methods of using additional substrate materials, which may still be controversial, especially when not needed for the more common plants. The KEY word here is simply -- "plants" -- as this covers the vast resources of aquatic plants now at our disposal. Those more recently introduced plants, especially those with reddish tones, require more light and more available nutrients both in the water column and in the substrate. The use of more nutritious substrates for plants was first attempted in the early years (1920's, 1930's) with disasterous results, in both continual water cloudiness for the fish and adverse pH and hardness conditions attributed to the various substrates -- usually, soil under gravel. Some of these problems have been corrected when its found that soil needs testing first to determine its pH -- which can vary considerably when compared to aquarium water -- and which can have a major impact on the water's pH. Drawbacks, such as constant turbidity still remain when adding rooted plants to the water anytime the substrate is disturbed. Now, when considering the average run-of-the-mill aquarium plants that have been in use throughout all the many years in the hobby, and have proven to be both hardy and undemanding, the answer to your question is a definite YES, not only can these plants survive in regular decorative gravel, but they will thrive magnificently. After the disasterous times of previous decades and with the discontinous of any attempts to use soils as a sub-stratum, gravels were ALL we had to grow rooted plants in, and was the only thing recommended. The general results are that these plants all thrived, as long as pH, hardness and lighting requirements were met -- and this was for the more fussy ones, as can be some Cryptocoryne's. Most others have a wider range of requirements necessary for fine growth. Most of us had great success with just plain gravel, when dedicated to growing aquatic plants as part of their aquarium decore. As there was nothing else available at the time, and I'm talking about the 1940's right through the 1970's and beyond, this was the NORM. I had MANY tanks of LUSH aquatic plant growth from the time I started in the hobby -- just with using plain gravel. I occasionally used a tablet of PlantTabs (marketed for aquarium use) pushed in between the plant roots, but I'm not even sure that was needed. Even though anchored (rooted), most plants will still take up nutrients directly from the water. Some of those nutrients would be the carbon in the CO2 of the water; always adequate in sufficient amounts for these average plants, as normally dissolved in the water column (there was no such thing as CO2 injection in the 1950's, when my plants were growing lushly and multiplying (even flowering at times) -- again, ALL in regular gravel. Other water-borne nutrients for these plants are the ever-present nitrate and any ammonium. As you're considering a Java Fern (attached to bogwood), the substrate would be of little concern anyway, since these plants do not get planted in substrate. But for any other plants you might add, gravel is all you really need for most of the commoner plants. I could give a long list of plant species that will do just great in this substrate but I'm afraid this list would go on ad nauseam and would not want to bore anybody. To name a few, they would include Amazon Sword Plants, Sagitteria, Valisneria, Water Sprite, Cardamine, Ludwigia, Hygrophila, Myriophyllum and yes, even most Cryptocorynes. Happy planting! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some bogwood wuth java fern attached. >   > Lisa > > >   > > > Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33697	From: KUNAL	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: how can breed crown tail beeta?

I want to know how can I breed crown tail beeta at home?what is the process and the water condition?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33698	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

We've discussed/debated the GloFish Zebra Danio's many times out here. If this is what you are referencing, they do not "glow in the dark" but rather have day-glo type fluorescent color pigmentation added to their genetics to give them day-glo coloring. I'm not sure that Carolina Biological Supply is/was actually involved in developing them but they may be a distributor. The technology, as I understand it, was developed outside of the U.S. http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/staff/gong.htm, http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm, http://newshub.nus.edu.sg/news/0703/pdf/17-3-ST-GlowingFish.pdf http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1299107 and http://www.GloFish.com is simply the U.S. officially licensed distributor/breeder for these fish. Do a search in the message section for "Glofish" and you'll find our previous discussions/debates, including an appearance of a representative of Glofish to get their two-cents into the discussion. I checked out the Carolina.com link and they look like a distributor of supplies to schools/universities and they likely do distribute Zebra Danio's and possibly GloFish to their customers as well since many Universities are involved in various research programs using these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 11:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/27/2008 11:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny, Thanks for the advise. Have you tried any of the "glow in the dark" genetically engineered fish developed by Carolina Biological Supply? They are not really expensive. I understand that the Japanese are selling them in Fish stores now. http://www.carolina.com/ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:04:20 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fish that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html The "simple" way that I find a Mongabay profile for a specific species is to simply type Mongabay and the fishes common or Latin name into Google and the profile is usually in the top 1-3 hits. For example, 'Mongabay Oscar' brought up the above link and other Mongabay links about Oscars. That's a BIG jump from GloFish to Oscars and you may not want to mix them of you'll likely end up with GloPoop from the Oscar. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 11:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/27/2008 11:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Was your previous tank at least 6' long and 75G++.. for a single Oscar? If not, that's probably the start of your problem(s). How big a tank would I need for 4 Oscars? Here is the information for the GloFish _http://www.carolina.com/_ <http://www.carolina.com/_> (http://www.carolina.com/ <http://www.carolina.com/> ) GloFish product FA-14-5251 FA-14-5253 FA-14-5255 FA-14-5257 They are FW fish. I think I may restart with a fresh water tank. Jon _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:22:49 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but for some plants, I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some potting soil first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants access to more nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer (especially made for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves providing nutrients for the plants. I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." blog but I think you've already been to those pages before. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some bogwood wuth java fern attached. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:29:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Setting up the 125 gallon

Ray, She had 3" to 4" of gravel in the 55G that she was transferring to the 125G so it would only be 1" to 2" in that tank.... just enough to cover the "garden soil" sub-substrate. I do not know if Amber did all of the testing and if she is planning on allowing the soil to leach first... but the detailed articles that I led her to certainly provides this advice. We'll have to wait for her reply. I'm pretty sure she's done her homework on this. I don't think it was a last second decision. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up the 125 gallon Lenny, Yes, I realize Amber lives on an island in Alaska -- and that shipping costs can be prohibitive -- and is what I was getting at when I stated, "although I don't know what the shipping costs would be," in my last paragraph. I have been following much of Amber's plight in her getting this tank set up, but this soil thing is a rather sudden decision. Still, this should not be the ultimate consideration when setting up an aquarium, when more reasonably priced materials may not meet the requirements. Except for understood expenses, one has nothing to do with the other when addressing the needs of a successful aquarium. Since she is going to use 3" - 4" of aquarium gravel anyway, this amount of substrate would have been adequate, and consequentially much less potentially problematic even if not containing as much nutrient. This extra nutrient is not needed by most of our long time commonly established plants in the aquarium trade. If its buried under 4" of gravel, its not going to have much benefit for the plants anyway, until (unless) their roots grow to these depths. If the soil is not covered that deeply with gravel, she may well expect the perennial condition of brown water -- witness: Mike's subsequent post relating these same conditions when attempting the use of soil. I have nothing but the greatest respect for Diana Walstead's methods, but some of them do not go without their possible potential problems if sufficient care isn't given. As much respect I have for Diana Walstead's methods, I have even greater respect the long-standing directions and tried-&-true recommendations of Dr. William T. Innes, the father of our Aquarium Hobby, and although his technology may be more dated it will remain never the less sound -- and is contrary to any recommendations to use soil for a good number of reasons, which I've previously touched on. Diana's method for setting up a tank may not necessarily be condusive towards the mutual benefit of the plants and the fish ---- and the hobbyist! While I would not discount the merits of Diana's suggestions along these lines, I do see a number of caveats as pertains to Amber's situation. I notice Amber has stated the use of "garden soil." One of my concerns is whether she used some of her backyard soil, or whether she bought soil (I recall her saying she did not know if there was a landscape company in town). Has Amber tested the pH of this soil? Diana suggests adding powdered dolomite lime if the soil is acidic (a possible condition that I pointed out). I also pointed out the soil may be alkaline, possibly too alkaline for aquarium use if it's too high) As per your outline of Diana's methods, she (Diana) also recommends to set up a bottle test with soil, cover by gravel with water then added to see how much the soil will leach into the water, yellowing it (in Mike's case, "browning" it). This is to sit for several weeks. Amber hasn't done this and has set herself up with a recipe for disaster. If it turns out unsuccessful, which may be more the probability, there is no way of saving the gravel once it has been permeated by water-soaked-soil (read: mud), if it comes down to needing to remove the soil. If Amber has bought bagged soil (and I see nothing on that), has she first spread it in a thin layer to let it air out overnight to gas out the ammonia, as you have written of Diana's methods? The money spent on the gravel will be wasted if for any of these reasons it does not work out, not lending towards the most efficient way to set this tank up when considering trying to save money doing it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Amber's problem is that she lives on an island in Alaska and the cost of > having a "good" substrate is very cost prohibitive. It was going to cost > her $200.00 just for sand or aquarium gravel. We've been discussing many, > many options for her for the past month or so and the best and most cost > effective was the current solution. I'm sure she was able to get the soil > at a low cost and use her existing 3-4" of gravel from her 55G as the top > layer over the soil. > > I think Amber used the directions provided by Diana Walstad for a DIY > substrate for a planted tank. > > Here is a summary of the directions.. > > How to set up a Walstad-type natural planted tank: > > Substrate: > 1 to 1.5 inches of unsterilized garden soil, potting soil or topsoil with 1 > to 1.5 inches of 2-4mm gravel on top. Don't use subsoils or clay soils from > areas near brackish water. If the soil is acidic, you can use powdered > dolomite lime mixed in. If you have soft water add pelleted dolomite lime, > or crushed shells to gradually increase the level of hard water nutrients > over time. She recommends not adding peat or fertilizers (including manure). > Adding a small amount of well-decayed organic matter/compost is fine. You > may want to set up a bottle test to see how much the soil yellows the water. > Add a layer of soil and cover it with a layer of gravel and then add water > being careful not to disturb the soil. Then let it sit for several weeks. > Some soils leach more than others. When using bagged soil, it would be a > good idea to spread it in a thin layer and let it air out over night to gas > out ammonia. (END SNIP) > > More details here - > http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTankDemo.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTankDemo.html> > > and here - > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/26458-what- > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/26458-what-> el-natural > -step-step.html > > Of course, Diana's book is also available for folks that like books! ;-) > http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388.htm > <http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Setting up the 125 gallon > > Since you're asking for thoughts (and only since you're asking for > thoughts), WHY would you want to use soil as a substrate for your 125 and 55 > gallon tanks? Yes, what goes around comes around -- and this concept was in > effect 70 to 80 years ago as a method of promoting good plant grow. It was > soon learned by many that in practice, this was not a very good idea for a > number of reasons. Recent ideas on this may have created a resurgence of > this concept, although the drawbacks to this have not been diminished. > > I've learned early on, in much of the literature I've read over the years > that while soil may be a fine idea in plant-only tanks (no fish), soil > should not be used as a sub-stratum for plants in a fish- stocked tank; it > will be all to soon found not to work out very well. Not only might it > become fouled, but it's all to easy to unintentionally allow stirring up of > clouds of this ultra-fine material when vacuuming the gravel substrate > placed over it if you go a bit too deep. Stirred soil does not settle out > very fast at all and will remain as clouding your water for a good length of > time. > Adding new plants to your tank will become problematic every time you > disturb enough gravel as to expose and stir the soil underneath it. > Having a deep layer of gravel over it to help prevent this problem partially > negates the benefit for any plants that you put it in there for in the first > place. > > Depending on what has previously been grown in the soil as a terrestrial > medium, this soil may be of varying degrees of acidity or base -- eventually > having a direct effect on the pH of your water. > If for instance conifer trees were grown on this soil, with the many > generations of broken down pine needles now mixed as part of this soil's > make-up, your water will become quite acid in short time even though its not > directly exposed to the soil; the gravel layer over it will not prevent this > influence. On the other hand, if the soil is gathered from an area rich in > limestone, you water may become quite alkaline. > > I've not yet gone into the leaching of the rich nutrients of the soil > reaching through the gravel over top of it in time, into the water column, > creating the most favorable conditions for the growth of algae. With the > aquarium plants obtaining all the nutrients they'll need from the soil > sub-stratum, there is no reason for them to use nutrients that are dissolved > in the water, i.e., they will not compete with the algae to starve it out. > > By far the safest way to use soil in the aquarium is in separate flower pots > covered by gravel, if you insists on using it at all, I realize you're > looking for the most economical way of adding substrate to your tanks, but > you're asking for trouble by adding soil over the entire bottom. You'd be > better off using Eco Complete > (Planted) or Flora-Max, although I don't know what the shipping costs would > be. Unless you're planning on high-tech plants, you really don't need such a > rich substrate such as soil. Most average plants found in the hobby do just > fine in plain gravel. You may just want to push an occassional Plant-Tab > down between the roots from time to time, which would be more than enough to > supplement what they are ordinarily getting. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > I'm considering setting up the 125 gallon and transfering all the > gravel > > from my 55 over to that one (over soil) and taking all the > plants/fish > > currently in it, and then put the magnum 350 onto it, and the > fluidized > > bed filter. Then I could re-set up the 55 gallon with soil and new > > gravel and just switch the filters back over one at a time and > transfer > > fish slowly back over to the 55 gallon. > > What are your guys' thoughts? This seems like an easier way to get > both > > tanks set up properly without causing damage to my bacteria/fish > and all > > that... > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:37:39 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33702	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:04:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: We've discussed/debated the GloFish Zebra Danio's many times out here. If this is what you are referencing, they do not "glow in the dark" but rather have day-glo type fluorescent color pigmentation added to their genetics to give them day-glo coloring. I'm not sure that Carolina Biological Supply is/was actually involved in developing them but they may be a distributor. The technology, as I understand it, was developed outside of the U.S. http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/staff/gong.htm, http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm, http://newshub.nus.edu.sg/news/0703/pdf/17-3-ST-GlowingFish.pdf http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1299107 and http://www.GloFish.com is simply the U.S. officially licensed distributor/breeder for these fish. Do a search in the message section for "Glofish" and you'll find our previous discussions/debates, including an appearance of a representative of Glofish to get their two-cents into the discussion. I checked out the Carolina.com link and they look like a distributor of supplies to schools/universities and they likely do distribute Zebra Danio's and possibly GloFish to their customers as well since many Universities are involved in various research programs using these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny, You are correct. In my introduction I said that I am a retired scientist form the CDC and now teach at a University, mostly Medical Microbiology but sometimes Zoology and Biology. Carolina is a supplier for schools ( both primary and University) but I have purchased form them for various items. The GloFish have a jelleyfish gene inserted in the embryo. It actually is very important organism in Genetics research. You can make bacteria glow under alternate wavelengths by inserting green, blue, red, purple, etc variations of the same gene. I raise sugar gliders and I mentioned selective breeding to work on the genetics of coat color but used the word "research". I got bashed so bad that I unsubscribed from the group. We use E. coli and insert the gene into the bacteria in my Medical Microbiology class to demonstrate how easy it is to insert a gene in a bacterium. _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Fluorescent_Protein_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Fluorescent_Protein) I'm not that good at using the archives. I usually have to unsubscribe form most yahoo groups when they start saying things like " you are a horrible person for growing gliders in a test tube" and one man said " why study Genetics? Not all organisms have chromosomes" After that, I know it is time to unsubscribe. My Master is in Genetics and I am very interested in Genetics in general but if I could grow any specific color organism in a test tube I would be on my way to a Nobel Prize. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33703	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fish that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html The "simple" way that I find a Mongabay profile for a specific species is to simply type Mongabay and the fishes common or Latin name into Google and the profile is usually in the top 1-3 hits. For example, 'Mongabay Oscar' brought up the above link and other Mongabay links about Oscars. That's a BIG jump from GloFish to Oscars and you may not want to mix them of you'll likely end up with GloPoop from the Oscar. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny, I had 4 Oscars that I raised together. They did chase each together on occasion but they lived for four years until they developed ick and died. Yes, I'm sure a GloFish would be a nice snack. I fed them gold fish feeders. They got so big they ate my albino frogs that I had for two years. I eventually could not keep anything in their tank but the Oscars. Two albino and two wild type plus I had trouble finding feeders at times. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

I don't have a problem with doing genetic research for the good of mankind... but if it's simply being done to satisfy the Dr. Frankenstein complex (my term.. lol) in some "mad" scientist, then I'm against it. I did previously state that I don't think genetic testing/enhancement/inbreeding, etc., should be done simply to make a "pretty" fish available to the public.... such as but certainly not limited to the GloFish (or a guaranteed "pretty" baby available to some rich couple in the future) but I'm also a capitalist pig.. lol.. so if enough people are willing to fork over 5 bucks for a day-glo colored 25 cent fish, then heck.. I'm jealous that I didn't think of the idea. LOL As far as getting your getting bashed... I'm not sure that the things that go on laboratories should be discussed in "hobbyist forums" or at least a scientist who brings up the topic should respectfully expect some backlash if/when they do. There's no reason to leave the group... just leave the topic. What's that old saying... if you can't handle the heat, stay out the kitchen. ;-) While I recognize that Zebra Danios and White Mice are necessary for laboratory experiments, they are also people's pets, in those respective forums, and many people do not take kindly to their pets being experimented on. I guess my biggest complaint about public university testing is that my confiscated tax dollars are often being wasted on many of these pork-barrel projects. Since you now teach at a university, you probably do not want to hear my opinions about tenure, ridiculous tuition rates, etc., and much of the other "waste" that goes on in tax-payer funded public schools and tax-payer funded loans to pay for these wasteful schools... and what the Boards of these schools should really do with the money (which involves rudely putting the wasted money into a certain body cavity of the Boards and the politicians involved.. lol)... once again, the capitalist pig coming out in me! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:04:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: We've discussed/debated the GloFish Zebra Danio's many times out here. If this is what you are referencing, they do not "glow in the dark" but rather have day-glo type fluorescent color pigmentation added to their genetics to give them day-glo coloring. I'm not sure that Carolina Biological Supply is/was actually involved in developing them but they may be a distributor. The technology, as I understand it, was developed outside of the U.S. http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/staff/gong.htm, <http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/staff/gong.htm,> http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm, <http://www.isb.vt.edu/articles/jun0405.htm,> http://newshub.nus.edu.sg/news/0703/pdf/17-3-ST-GlowingFish.pdf <http://newshub.nus.edu.sg/news/0703/pdf/17-3-ST-GlowingFish.pdf> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1299107 <http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1299107> and http://www.GloFish.com <http://www.GloFish.com> is simply the U.S. officially licensed distributor/breeder for these fish. Do a search in the message section for "Glofish" and you'll find our previous discussions/debates, including an appearance of a representative of Glofish to get their two-cents into the discussion. I checked out the Carolina.com link and they look like a distributor of supplies to schools/universities and they likely do distribute Zebra Danio's and possibly GloFish to their customers as well since many Universities are involved in various research programs using these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny, You are correct. In my introduction I said that I am a retired scientist form the CDC and now teach at a University, mostly Medical Microbiology but sometimes Zoology and Biology. Carolina is a supplier for schools ( both primary and University) but I have purchased form them for various items. The GloFish have a jelleyfish gene inserted in the embryo. It actually is very important organism in Genetics research. You can make bacteria glow under alternate wavelengths by inserting green, blue, red, purple, etc variations of the same gene. I raise sugar gliders and I mentioned selective breeding to work on the genetics of coat color but used the word "research". I got bashed so bad that I unsubscribed from the group. We use E. coli and insert the gene into the bacteria in my Medical Microbiology class to demonstrate how easy it is to insert a gene in a bacterium. _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Fluorescent_Protein_ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Fluorescent_Protein_> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Fluorescent_Protein <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Fluorescent_Protein> ) I'm not that good at using the archives. I usually have to unsubscribe form most yahoo groups when they start saying things like " you are a horrible person for growing gliders in a test tube" and one man said " why study Genetics? Not all organisms have chromosomes" After that, I know it is time to unsubscribe. My Master is in Genetics and I am very interested in Genetics in general but if I could grow any specific color organism in a test tube I would be on my way to a Nobel Prize. Jon _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 7:12:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Oscars should live 12 to 15+ years if kept in a proper sized tank that is properly maintained. You can find more lifespan info in my ever growing blog article on that topic... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l You didn't mention your tank size, so I'm guessing my earlier guess was accurate. As you saw, trying to keep fish in an undersized tank (or overstocking a tank) will quickly lead to many health issues and usually an early death of the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com <http://fish.Mongabay.com> is a source of good profiles on most FW fish that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> The "simple" way that I find a Mongabay profile for a specific species is to simply type Mongabay and the fishes common or Latin name into Google and the profile is usually in the top 1-3 hits. For example, 'Mongabay Oscar' brought up the above link and other Mongabay links about Oscars. That's a BIG jump from GloFish to Oscars and you may not want to mix them of you'll likely end up with GloPoop from the Oscar. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny, I had 4 Oscars that I raised together. They did chase each together on occasion but they lived for four years until they developed ick and died. Yes, I'm sure a GloFish would be a nice snack. I fed them gold fish feeders. They got so big they ate my albino frogs that I had for two years. I eventually could not keep anything in their tank but the Oscars. Two albino and two wild type plus I had trouble finding feeders at times. Jon _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 7:18:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33706	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

In a message dated 11/28/2008 8:13:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I don't have a problem with doing genetic research for the good of mankind... but if it's simply being done to satisfy the Dr. Frankenstein complex (my term.. lol) in some "mad" scientist, then I'm against it. I did previously state that I don't think genetic testing/enhancement/inbreeding, etc., should be done simply to make a "pretty" fish available to the public.... such as but certainly not limited to the GloFish (or a guaranteed "pretty" baby available to some rich couple in the future) but I'm also a capitalist pig.. lol.. so if enough people are willing to fork over 5 bucks for a day-glo colored 25 cent fish, then heck.. I'm jealous that I didn't think of the idea. LOL As far as getting your getting bashed... I'm not sure that the things that go on laboratories should be discussed in "hobbyist forums" or at least a scientist who brings up the topic should respectfully expect some backlash if/when they do. There's no reason to leave the group... just leave the topic. What's that old saying... if you can't handle the heat, stay out the kitchen. ;-) While I recognize that Zebra Danios and White Mice are necessary for laboratory experiments, they are also people's pets, in those respective forums, and many people do not take kindly to their pets being experimented on. I guess my biggest complaint about public university testing is that my confiscated tax dollars are often being wasted on many of these pork-barrel projects. Since you now teach at a university, you probably do not want to hear my opinions about tenure, ridiculous tuition rates, etc., and much of the other "waste" that goes on in tax-payer funded public schools and tax-payer funded loans to pay for these wasteful schools... and what the Boards of these schools should really do with the money (which involves rudely putting the wasted money into a certain body cavity of the Boards and the politicians involved.. lol)... once again, the capitalist pig coming out in me! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Lenny, I am actually against tenure and I also burn a disk of my lectures ( paid for at my own expense) for my students because the text book that the school sells has a 50% mark up. The first day of class I try to help them find a book from some other source like amazon and half price.com. Tuition in Georgia is much better than when I was a student. We have the Hope scholarship that is funded by the lottery. As long as you keep a B avg then you get your public tuition paid for free but you might be surprised at how much I agree with you about Universities. They paid the part time people with REAL world experience 1/2 that of the full time faculty who most have never worked in a real lab. Plus we get no medical benefits ( I have mine from the CDC) and absolutely NO leave at all. If we miss a class I get docked. So I am not a fan of Universities but it is an enjoyable job because I teach non traditional age students. Mostly older students who can now afford to go back to school and I find it rewarding to help people improve their lives. As for the zebra glo fish. They were not developed to be pretty. They were developed to follows germ lines so that Embryologist and developmental biologist can determine how organism form all the body structures form a single cell. That may help to prevent birth defects. They are being sold to help fund this research. You seem to know a great deal about aquariums and I probably will ask some of the same questions. Do you mind if I occasionally e-mail you privately. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33707	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

In a message dated 11/28/2008 8:19:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Oscars should live 12 to 15+ years if kept in a proper sized tank that is properly maintained. You can find more lifespan info in my ever growing blog article on that topic... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l You didn't mention your tank size, so I'm guessing my earlier guess was accurate. As you saw, trying to keep fish in an undersized tank (or overstocking a tank) will quickly lead to many health issues and usually an early death of the fish. Lenny Vasbinder I have book marked you blog.. My tank was 20 gallons and I did not know that Oscars needed a 75 gallon tank for one fish. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33708	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Jon, By now, if you have looked at previous discussions here on the Glofish(R), you have discovered that they have site produced by the commercial arm of the developers of the fish, www.glofish.com. While it may not put to rest your idea that Caroline Biological Supply developed these animals, it should provide you with all the information you need to keep them, and the caveats of breeding and distributing them. Your grounding in genetics may well be an asset to members of this forum when the discussion turns to varieties that have been developed over the years through selective breeding in a way that would be much better than those of us who have a smattering of genetic knowledge (you know, we can dig the hole, but can't get out <g>), even though your specialty may not be fish genetics. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 12:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/27/2008 11:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny, Thanks for the advise. Have you tried any of the "glow in the dark" genetically engineered fish developed by Carolina Biological Supply? They are not really expensive. I understand that the Japanese are selling them in Fish stores now. _http://www.carolina.com/_ (http://www.carolina.com/) Jon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33709	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

This is a yahoo issue for sure. its been experienced in another group im part of also, i dont notice it on gmail, i think it filters out duplicates for me. On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly something > with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th version of > this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This is, however, the > only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. > > If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your > substrate as one of the most important things to do. > > Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, > then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. > > For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and > look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to > my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank > .> > html > > Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for > the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't > need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide > you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates > that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea > gravel. > > Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set up > the tank for being a planted tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. I > will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup and > cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any burrowers. I > would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's similar to regular > aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I want to have plants is > it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, >> have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. >> It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure >> it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or >> burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea >> gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much >> cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced >> above listed on the right side under Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner >> >> Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we >> have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask >> the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes she >> can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. Takes >> a little while to get here, but the price is better than it would be >> to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running the tank >> without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal rather than >> spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. >> >> Amber >> >> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> > >> > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as >> > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of >> > their >> "homes". >> > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well >> > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass >> bottomed tank. >> > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" >> > days. >> > >> > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your local >> > landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. >> > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but >> > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea >> > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much >> > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" >> > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel >> > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. Slowly >> > lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize the >> > stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. >> > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove >> > any detritus/poop first. >> > >> > Lenny Vasbinder >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-0, 11/27/2008 > Tested on: 11/27/2008 9:42:51 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33710	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Yeah.. one of the complaints I've seen from some people when they first switch to Gmail is that "you do not get a copy of the message that you send to the group" and the simple answer is, why would you want a copy? You should already have a copy in your "Sent Messages" folder. Because of this feature with Gmail, it "sees" that you already have the identical email so there's no reason for you to get duplicate copies of it... or in the case of Yahoo Groups right now.. ten copies of it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics This is a yahoo issue for sure. its been experienced in another group im part of also, i dont notice it on gmail, i think it filters out duplicates for me. On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > It must be your Yahoo Mail of if you're POPing it, then possibly > something with that or your rules. I've only been getting one of each from the group. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Think maybe this list has a glitch, LOL! This is atleast the 10th > version of this post I've gotten, and Lenny isn't the only one! This > is, however, the only address from which I'm gettingmail twice. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. > > If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your > substrate as one of the most important things to do. > > Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up > first, then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. > > For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog > and look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, > just go to my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted > -tank. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-plante > d-tank.> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-plante > d-tank > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-plante > d-tank> > .> > html > > Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB > for the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so > you won't need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and > until you decide you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have > simple DIY substrates that you can put together for much less than the > cost of either sand or pea gravel. > > Of course, you'll have to rehome the fish for a few days while you set > up the tank for being a planted tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Is sand harder to use with plants? I've heard the sand gets compacted. > I will have a pictus catfish added to my tank whenever I get it setup > and cycled, but other than that I hadn't planned on getting any > burrowers. I would assume that pea gravel is pea sized, so it's > similar to regular aquarium gravel only not in "pretty colors" ;) If I > want to have plants is it going to cause an issue to not use gravel designed for plants? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> While checking with the hardware... since you are interested in sand, >> have her if she can get swimming pool sand. That should be available. >> It's better to be able to feel the sand before buying it to make sure >> it's not too sharp.. if you're going to have bottom feeders or >> burrowers. She should also be able to order large sacks of pea >> gravel.. probably 50 lb. sacks or larger and that would be much >> cheaper than the aquarium gravel at your LFS or ordering it online. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced >> above listed on the right side under Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:19 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Antibiotics Was :Re: Python gravel cleaner >> >> Hmm, landscape.... I will have to search around, I don't know if we >> have any sort of landscaping company in town. If anything I can ask >> the feed/hardware store if she can get any sort of sand, sometimes >> she can order stuff for a decent price and it comes up on the barge. >> Takes a little while to get here, but the price is better than it >> would be to order it online ;) And thanks about the info on running >> the tank without gravel, gives me some time to find a better deal >> rather than spend 200 or more at the LFS for enough gravel for the tank. >> >> Amber >> >> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> > >> > Yes you can run the tank without gravel. The fish won't like it as >> > much as they are not used to seeing a reflection off the bottom of >> > their >> "homes". >> > It will also show up as dirty a lot quicker. It's amazing how well >> > gravel hides a lot of fish poop that becomes so obvious on a glass >> bottomed tank. >> > That's probably one of the reasons they used slate bottoms in the "old" >> > days. >> > >> > When you finally do decide on a gravel... BTW.. check out your >> > local landscape supply outlet (do they have those in the frozen tundra? .. >> > or would they be Ice Sculpture companies up there? LOL)... but >> > anyhow.. check out your local landscape or rock companies for pea >> > gravel. They should sell it in various sizes and it would be much >> > cheaper to buy it in bulk from them, rather than "aquarium gravel" >> > which costs more just because of the name. Just rinse the gravel >> > really well, regardless of your choice, put it in a colander. >> > Slowly lower it to the bottom and pour it out. This will minimize >> > the stirring of any missed dust. Also.. vacuum your bottom first (well.. >> > not your bottom but rather the bottom of the tank..lol) to remove >> > any detritus/poop first. >> > >> > Lenny Vasbinder >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 8:14:25 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33711	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Wow!!! 4 Oscars in a 20 Gallon Tank. That is SINFUL .I don't care how many PWC you did you could never keep that tank clean.   John in Nevada --- On Fri, 11/28/08, johchance1@... <johchance1@...> wrote: From: johchance1@... <johchance1@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 5:35 AM In a message dated 11/28/2008 8:19:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. com writes: Oscars should live 12 to 15+ years if kept in a proper sized tank that is properly maintained. You can find more lifespan info in my ever growing blog article on that topic... http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2007/ 02/how-long- should-aquarium- fish-live. htm l You didn't mention your tank size, so I'm guessing my earlier guess was accurate. As you saw, trying to keep fish in an undersized tank (or overstocking a tank) will quickly lead to many health issues and usually an early death of the fish. Lenny Vasbinder I have book marked you blog.. My tank was 20 gallons and I did not know that Oscars needed a 75 gallon tank for one fish. Jon ************ **Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol. com/?optin= new-dp&icid= aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolco m00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33712	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

In a message dated 11/28/2008 8:58:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, steve@... writes: Jon, By now, if you have looked at previous discussions here on the Glofish(R), you have discovered that they have site produced by the commercial arm of the developers of the fish, www.glofish.com. While it may not put to rest your idea that Caroline Biological Supply developed these animals, it should provide you with all the information you need to keep them, and the caveats of breeding and distributing them. I am positive that Carolina DID not discover them. But I did not know they were available in the US commonly. I did a search and they are in most pets stores in Atlanta. I just get a Carolina catalogue and anyone can.Just e-mail them and ask. I noticed the fish when I was planning our lab for next semester. We will be inserting a green fluorescent protein in bacteria. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33713	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

Yea, i can agree with you somewhat Lenny. MS is not nearly as bad as they are imagined to be by most. 90% of the time, MS based issues are user error or 3rd party software issues. I find the apple commercials to be rather ridiculous, and pretty low. Besides there is a screen saver of gold fish for windows that is like 1000 times better than any other fish screensaver out there. Its like real. On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > You seem to be implying that Yahoo's technicians ever knew how to draw... > much less be fast or slow on the draw. They can't be slow on the draw when > they don't even know how to approach the drawing board. They probably > couldn't color inside the lines as kids either. LOL I do use lots of > Yahoo's services... because they are free. If I had to pay Yahoo for any of > their services, I would run away screaming and hollering... while holding > onto my wallet. LOL > > As bad as MS and MSN is thought or advertised to be by others (hint, hint.. > the Apple dude), in a recent issue with an MSN Fish Group, I sent an online > "contact us" form to MSN Groups and actually got a reply with a case number, > etc., the next day and a MAJOR issue with the MSN Fish Group was actually > resolved in a short time after a couple of emails back and forth. I've > never gotten a reply from a "contact us" form with Yahoo... although I'll > admit I haven't wasted my time contacting them any time recently.. I quit > beating that dead horse a long time ago. > > Let us know if they actually reply... but don't hold your breath.. oh wait.. > this is Dora! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Hmmm ... Yahoo's technicians are being slow on the draw. This one just came > through, even though it would have us believe that Lenny only sent it an > hour ago. > > I clipped all but the first part; you all can readily see it's the same one! > > No, they aren't selectively repeating long posts; the one it repeated on > another list where it is happening was just one paragraph. And I wasn't one > of the ones getting multiples on that list. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:21 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics > > Using pure sand can be a problem for many plants. > > If you are 100% sure you want a nicely planted tank, I would plan your > substrate as one of the most important things to do. > > Usually, when going for a nicely planted tank, the plants are set up first, > then the fish are added... so you're doing it backwards a little bit. > > For some DIY ideas (and less expensive substrate ideas), go to my blog and > look at my recent blog about "Planted Tank".. if the link breaks, just go to > my main blog link and it's the third blog on the main page right now. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank > .> > html > > Read over the two links... from Chuck's Planted Tanks and from TheGAB for > the Walstad Natural Planted Tank.. both low-tech planted tanks so you won't > need to worry about CO2, hi-tech lighting, etc., unless and until you decide > you want a more hi-tech planted tank. They both have simple DIY substrates > that you can put together for much less than the cost of either sand or pea > gravel. >> > > > can get hubby to help me tip it on the side I will try using >> > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 > Tested on: 11/27/2008 10:57:55 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33714	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

What gold fish screen saver is that? I haven't found one that's like for real yet. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Keymel" <azzuron@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics Yea, i can agree with you somewhat Lenny. MS is not nearly as bad as they are imagined to be by most. 90% of the time, MS based issues are user error or 3rd party software issues. I find the apple commercials to be rather ridiculous, and pretty low. Besides there is a screen saver of gold fish for windows that is like 1000 times better than any other fish screensaver out there. Its like real. On

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33715	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Now: sand - Was: Antibiotics

In a message dated 11/28/2008 10:42:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, azzuron@... writes: Yea, i can agree with you somewhat Lenny. MS is not nearly as bad as they are imagined to be by most. 90% of the time, MS based issues are user error or 3rd party software issues. I find the apple commercials to be rather ridiculous, and pretty low. Besides there is a screen saver of gold fish for windows that is like 1000 times better than any other fish screensaver out there. Its like real. Well, I guess I should not say I am an apple user and a researcher ? LOL Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33716	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

In a message dated 11/28/2008 10:04:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dumont53@... writes: Wow!!! 4 Oscars in a 20 Gallon Tank. That is SINFUL .I don't care how many PWC you did you could never keep that tank clean. John in Nevada They were very small when IU purchased them. I had no idea how big they would get. The same store that I got mine from I just came back form and they have 6 albinos and 7 common colors reds in a 2 - 10 gallon tanks. That is why I need some people like this group for help. Can I raise anything else with oscars if I get a 250 gallon ? Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33717	From: jett07002	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Call me old fashioned, but I would never use gardening soil in my aquarium. I didn't even do it when it just thought of as a wonderful idea many years ago. A couple of my buddies tried it. They came around to agreeing with me. Sooner or later you have to clean/siphon the bottom of the tank, no matter how many water changes you do. So then what are you going to do when the soil is eventually sucked out of the gravel? And even when you are churning up the substrate, for whatever reason, that soil will be disturbed and will start floating at the least. Never mind the mess it's going to make. It's just my opinion, but you're gonna make a lot of work for yourself, and it is not necessary. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Okay, so if I wanted to get my planted tank started without putting > gravel in it, can I put in soil for now until I get plants and gravel > for it? Or should I wait until I have the plants to actually set the > tank up with water in it? > I wish I had read that link before I set up my 55 gallon tank (in > September), I have regular gravel in there and am wondering how I could > go about re-setting it up, I have a 5 gallon bucket that I could put all > the fish in temporarily while messing around with the tank if I have to > drain it and such. I would hate to have to go that far as taking all the > gravel out to add soil and then putting gravel back in, at least then I > would have extra gravel that I could then put in my big tank, LOL. Right > now my 55 gallon has a good 3-4 inch layer of regular aquarium gravel. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33718	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Large South American Tank Fish

> From: Amber Berglund > Are your rams more docile than semi-aggressive? My LFS says they are > semi-aggressive but I've not read anywhere online that causes me to > believe this. They have long finned bolivian rams out at my LFS right > now that I would love to get a couple of later on, but I want them to > fit in with at least one of my tanks ;) I will have 2 angels and 1 > severum in the 125 gallon once it's set up, and the 55 gallon will have > the rest of my community fish in it (7 glofish danio's, 5 flame tetras, > 2 dwarf gourami's, 1 dwarf frog). Amber, Yes to your question. I believe some "profiles" will list them as semi-aggressive, but I believe that is just due to their territorial nature. Essentially though they are good community fish and become most territorial if they are protecting a clutch of eggs. I've never seen them fight another fish but if they want they're space to themselves they'll make sure to shoo an intruder away. But mostly they get along with everyone. I can't speak to how they get along with a severum or angel, but I do have other cichlids in the community tank (a German Blue Ram and a male/female pair of Kribs) and have not had hostility problems. I'm not familiar with the long-finned version of the Bolivians but I would guess they should have the same temperament. Jim E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33719	From: bill1433	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Filter

I would like some performance comments here.� If you have one of these would you buy another?� Does one �type� HOB or Canister have something over the other type?� What is it?� Which is the most convenient to use? � Lenny, get those typing fingers warmed up!� I know that you have both of these and I would also like to ask (I forget) which one of these in powering your 65-gallon? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33720	From: bill1433	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

I had Oscars years ago and loved them BUT they are demanding fish to keep. �You can't skimp on PWC's and need avery strict filter maintenance program, as they do make a mess when they eat.� � In my 100-gallon a kept a small army of Cory Cats the bronze variety( about 12 or 14).� Oscar never bothered them and they were a big help in cleaning up.� As you have already witnessed, Oscars make a mess when they eat and they�ll eat just about anything.� � For myself, I would put these cats in with Oscar (3 or 4 Oscar�s in a 250 is plenty, (Oscar likes room to swim and chase other Oscars)! � Congrats on the big tank and Welcome here.� There is good straight advice here by people that really know what they are talking about.� They have great understanding and the patience of �Saints�.� All you have to do is ask and then heed their advice.� They won�t steer you wrong. � Bill --- On Fri, 11/28/08, johchance1@... <johchance1@...> wrote: From: johchance1@... <johchance1@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:36 AM In a message dated 11/28/2008 10:04:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dumont53@sbcglobal. net writes: Wow!!! 4 Oscars in a 20 Gallon Tank. That is SINFUL .I don't care how many PWC you did you could never keep that tank clean. John in Nevada They were very small when IU purchased them. I had no idea how big they would get. The same store that I got mine from I just came back form and they have 6 albinos and 7 common colors reds in a 2 - 10 gallon tanks. That is why I need some people like this group for help. Can I raise anything else with oscars if I get a 250 gallon ? Jon ************ **Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol com/?optin= new-dp&icid= aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolco m00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33721	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Jon   As Lrnny pointed out in a ear liar post the average LFS does not care about the life of the fish, they only care about your business.   That tank wasn't big enough for one Oscar, never mind several  You can't go by what you see them living in in the LFS, they are only there for a short time..   Unfortunately I am very one sided in my knowledge of fish. I know little about Ocars and what fish they are Compatible with. But I am sure that if you had a 250 Gallon tank there are many in this group that could advise.   My knowledge of fish is somewhat limited to African Cichlids. That is my Specialty and my interest. However when I heard about those poor fish, I couldn't avoid commenting.   Happy Fish Keeping John in Nevada --- On Fri, 11/28/08, johchance1@... <johchance1@...> wrote: From: johchance1@... <johchance1@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 8:36 AM In a message dated 11/28/2008 10:04:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dumont53@sbcglobal. net writes: Wow!!! 4 Oscars in a 20 Gallon Tank. That is SINFUL .I don't care how many PWC you did you could never keep that tank clean. John in Nevada They were very small when IU purchased them. I had no idea how big they would get. The same store that I got mine from I just came back form and they have 6 albinos and 7 common colors reds in a 2 - 10 gallon tanks. That is why I need some people like this group for help. Can I raise anything else with oscars if I get a 250 gallon ? Jon ************ **Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol com/?optin= new-dp&icid= aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolco m00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33723	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Smelled bad? As in specifically what odor? Rotten eggs? Fishy odor? People talking about a very bad smell comnig frmo the fish tank are most often talking about a smell of rotten eggs, and that is usually caused by buildup of anaerobic bacteria in the gravel. It kills teh fish as well as smelling rotten. To prevent it you have to clean the gravel regularly, and also try not to have it piled up too thickly. I think most people try to siphon atleast half the gravel during their weakly water changes - you stick your siphon into the gravel to the bottom to suck out whatever is under it. Gravel shouldn't be more than an inch deep and I think even less may be better. I prefer an inch but maybe it should be half an inch or 3/4 of an inch. I want mine to support the plastic plants. No teveryone has plastic plants. As a newbie I went around it trying to get my tank biochemistry cycled and learn to keep it clean. I think most newbies do. But actually the less chemicals teh better, unless you want to use a bacteria starter to help with the cycling. Newbies often don't realize that the filter is supposed to act as mainly a biological filter, adn it takes teh bacteria some time to get going. Until that happens you get buildups of toxic nitrogen waste - and at one stage that can smell like rotten fish. Most of us keep simple test kits to detect that - best ones are made by API, and you most want the ones for ph, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. You can get tests for general and carbonate hardness or have the fish store test your water for you, and if you use a public water supply probably the parameters of the water are well known or available from the local utitility water quality lab. Don't just assume you know, though, because, for instance, if you guessed what teh City of Austin's public water supply is like, you'd guess that it's much harder, lower in ph and lower in phosphates than it is. They get liquid limestone out of the river, but what comes through our pipes is practically a different chemical substance. And you'd have ph swings in your tank when you changed the water that you'd not suspect nor anticipate. (The ph in the water here drops dramatically as soon as air bubbles through it, which is not a normal event.) This is not rocket science; a master test kit will run you $20 to $30 that includes everythign you need. Some things like ph will behave fairly predictably once you know your own water chemistry and your own aquarium. Carbonate hardness is an important paramater to know because it affects the ability of your water to attain a given ph and its ability to experience ph swings. Water usually also has certain buffering points, often programmed by your water utility, to which it will tend to return no matter what you do to it. These things all make it important to choose fish that will thrive in the water you have available, which is often a greater range of fish than teh books say it is. You can get guidance from your local fish stores, and it's a good idea to buy your fish from stores with water similar to the water you'll be putting them into. Of coruse you'll also acclimate them. It's also important to keep teh tank free of excess waste by siphoning it regularly and nto overfeeding the fish. It's usually a good idea to use just a couple of very hardy fish - or even no fish - until your biological filtration is established. That takes four to six weeks, depending on whether you use bacterial starters. At one point I had trouble because too much gunk had built up in my filter cartridge. I now keep an extra layer of polyfilter behind the cartridge, and a bag of nano balls as a substrate for friendly bacteria. I also run two filters, which both ensures enough filtration and makes it possible to change the filter media in one without throwing off the bacteria levels. Many chemicals wehn added to your tank will kill the friendly bacteria, which is counterproductive. Many people keep larger fish or more fish than the biology of the tank can support - which is a ridiculously small number of fish. I do that because I like to see actual fish in my tank, so I have 25 small fish in a 20 gallon tank, which can support 15 or 20 small fish. That means that I siphon out the superficial waste in the bottom of my tank and do a 10% water chagne each day, in addition to a 30% water change and deeper cleaning each week, which sometimes must be repeated the next day. My biological filtration capacity could comfortably handle a 30 gallon tank. Some people of scientific bent would want to do that, and some wouldn't. Mind you, it takes as much time on a weekly basis to take proper care of my parakeets. If you want a work free pet you're pretty much stuck with getting a cat. Lenny has a collection of articles on cycling your tank's biofiltration, if he didn't send you to it already. I have a few good books; Freshwater Aquariums for Dummies The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums A Practical Guide to Keeping Healthy Fish in a Stable Environment (Tankmaster) The Natural Aquarium Handbook I don't know a thing about keeping salt water fish, but you have the same basic biofiltration issues and cleanliness issues. It's actually pretty much true that if your tank is clean and yoru biofiltration is sound you aren't likely to have much fish disease. I use a teaspoon of salt per gallon in my tank, which Lenny or Raymond argue is bad for tetras, but my tetras adn danios are thriving on it. It helps prevent things like ick, and it tends to render bacterial disease non-contagious. Treating for disease is a good way to wipe out your biological filtration; that's a very tricky matter. Fortunately teh only time I had to mess with it the fish died before I could treat them, and that was my first effort with the aquarium. I 've had no problems like that since. My aquarium has now been going for about eight months, and it upgraded from 10 gallons to 20 gallons. Generally bigger tanks are easier to keep clean and control the biological filtration than the little ones. If you can afford it and have the space, a 30 gallon tank is most aesthetically pleasing and a good size to start with. It does cost a minimum of $200 to start up even a small tank, not counting the fish and the decorations, unless you are lucky enough to inherit one with everything in workign condition. It isn't a very good idea to start right out with expensive fish at the full capacity of your tank. Most of the people here are into fishless cycling - using a small amount of fish food or some pure ammonia to feed the nitrogen cycle, to build it to where it can support healthy fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga Hello, My name is Jon and I live in Atlanta Ga. I have a BS in Biology. MS in Genetics and Ph.D in Microbiology and Biochemistry. I worked for the CDC in research for 15 years and recently took an early retirement. I now teach biology and Medical Microbiology at a local college part time. I have always wanted to have a salt water aquarium but due to the expense I started several time with fresh water aquariums. I had oscars for a long time but they eventually developed ick and died. I tried to keep the tank clean and spent major $$$$ on the Oscars and filters and supplioes, books, pH equipment, etc. One problem is that the fish tank smelled so bad and I was constantly changing the filter but the smell would not go away. Before I start on slat water is there a book or websites that would be helpful. Do salt water fish ( organisms )have health problems like freshwater? I would think that the osmotic pressure of the salt would help prevent many diseases. I really want to make a very nice tank. Can anyone recommend an aquarium with filter set up first? Has anyone purchased any of the slat water collections form Carolina Biological Supplies? Any and all suggestion will be appreciated. John Chance **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Fil

Yes to both brands. I have a Rena Filstar 2 and a Marineland Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel on my 65G. Under normal circumstances, either of those would probably be OK by themselves but my 65G has my two fancy goldfish and a juvi Clown Pleco so I have a little over-filtration and so I can do regular and frequent filter cleaning on alternating filter systems while still keeping my tank from going into mini-cycles. About the only changes that I make to the AC's is I do NOT run the carbon full time and I add a thick layer of the blue/white filter floss pad media for additional mechanical/biological filtration. Also, adding a Marineland filter intake strainer over (or instead of) the chincy intake strainer that comes on the AC's if you have a planted tank. The Marineland strainers are much larger rectangular shaped, so part of it could get clogged with a leaf and it will not adversely affect the performance of the filter. The little strainers on the AC's can get blocked kind of easy. See the Filter Profile (link below) on the AC-20/30 and scroll down to the 10th picture down which shows the "Modified Strainer". The top picture shows the chincy standard strainer built into the "Intake Tube". You can see the BIG difference that this $2.00 part adds to the efficiency of these workhorses. http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Filter by Rena. I would like some performance comments here. If you have one of these would you buy another? Does one "type" HOB or Canister have something over the other type? What is it? Which is the most convenient to use? Lenny, get those typing fingers warmed up! I know that you have both of these and I would also like to ask (I forget) which one of these in powering your 65-gallon? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 3:13:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33725	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought it was safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is having enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the bottom of the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't leach anything into the water and as far as I know it shouldn't affect the PH of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. Yes I let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If this doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set up the 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very clear and there have been no fish casualties. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but for some > plants, > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some potting > soil > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants access to > more > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer (especially made > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves providing > nutrients for the plants. > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." blog > but I > think you've already been to those pages before. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some bogwood wuth > java fern attached. > > Lisa > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 > Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:29:12 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33726	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Are you talking about those dyed danios? I think there may even be some genetically modified danios! That's a cruel practice, and you can get perfectly good plain old danios. And danios with fancy fins, and danios with spots instead of stripes. Any sort of danios are going to be hardy, though they've a penchant for getting stuck everywhere you never thought a fish could get stuck in your tank. They are a good starter fish, and a good fish to use several of tehm to get teh nitrogen cycle established in a new tank. (Lenny will now make Dora-munching motions and preach the virtues of fishless cycling.) I suppose if you find glo-fish that haven't had stuff injected into them, tehre's no harm in it, if you want alien glowing things swiming around in your tank. Me, I have a natural creek-bed scenario, with danios and neutral-colored tetras swimming around in it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/27/2008 11:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny, Thanks for the advise. Have you tried any of the "glow in the dark" genetically engineered fish developed by Carolina Biological Supply? They are not really expensive. I understand that the Japanese are selling them in Fish stores now. _http://www.carolina.com/_ (http://www.carolina.com/) Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33727	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

You see what I mean, LOL. Probably you could keep 4 Oscars in that tank, but you'll have to clean the tank every day instead of every week or two. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/27/2008 11:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Was your previous tank at least 6' long and 75G++.. for a single Oscar? If not, that's probably the start of your problem(s). How big a tank would I need for 4 Oscars? Here is the information for the GloFish _http://www.carolina.com/_ (http://www.carolina.com/) GloFish product FA-14-5251 FA-14-5253 FA-14-5255 FA-14-5257 They are FW fish. I think I may restart with a fresh water tank. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33728	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Aren't there any small cichlids?

That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fish that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33729	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Too bad they have to live under water; I can think of some parrot flight cages tehy'd be very happy in! It seems like if someoen wants a pet that's going to live for 15 years, maybe they're ready to upgrade? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 8:19:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Oscars should live 12 to 15+ years if kept in a proper sized tank that is properly maintained. You can find more lifespan info in my ever growing blog article on that topic... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l You didn't mention your tank size, so I'm guessing my earlier guess was accurate. As you saw, trying to keep fish in an undersized tank (or overstocking a tank) will quickly lead to many health issues and usually an early death of the fish. Lenny Vasbinder I have book marked you blog.. My tank was 20 gallons and I did not know that Oscars needed a 75 gallon tank for one fish. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33730	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Newbie with a fungus problem?

well, not me, but my fish, lol. Hi! I'm DebR, from Michigan. I recently came into ownership of three fancy goldfish, due to their last owner developing back problems and not being able to care for the aquarium properly. When they arrived, I noticed right away that one had some small white cottony spots around the base of it's tail. Since their arrival, those spots have spread and now a second fish has a few spots. The dominant fish seems to be completely fine at the moment, but I'm not assuming that won't change soon. The fish are in my dd's aquarium that was actually set up for mollies over a year ago, but the mollies were lost to nitrate/nitrite spikes and she never replaced the fish, but kept the aquarium, occasionally running the filter and replacing the water with filtered tap water as it evaporated. The aquarium has gone for a year this way and never gotten cloudy or smelly. I tested the water. It was very slightly high in ammonia and nitrite, and I treated for and corrected that. Our house thermostat is set at 65 deg during the day and 60 deg at night. Should I get a heater and keep the aquarium closer to 70? I started treating two days ago with malachite green, once a day preceded by a 30% water change. The treatments are stressing the more affected goldfish, but I'm afraid not treating will doom all three of them. Is there anything that I should be doing differently? DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33731	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Fil

Bill � I have a 76 Gallon Tank with 2 Aqua-clear Filters, The largest ones they make. They used to be called 500's but now are 110's. � I absolutly love them. I can alternate cleaning them and it easy. � I did not start with them I originally had 1 Aqua-clear and one Marineland Emperor 400. This tank is in my living room and the noise the Emperor made drove crazy. And I tried everything, I would get it whisper quiet and then "out of the blue" it would start amking noise again. � I don't even heat the Aqua-clears running at full capacity. � I dont't use carbon in them I ony use the sponge and bags of Bio balls. � And Yes if I had to do all it over I would buy 2 just like I now have. And yes Maintenance is almost costless as You keep using the sponges over and over. and the bio balls you keep rinsing in Aquarium water. � John in Nevada� --- On Fri, 11/28/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Filter by Rena. To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:16 AM I would like some performance comments here.� If you have one of these would you buy another?� Does one �type� HOB or Canister have something over the other type?� What is it?� Which is the most convenient to use? � Lenny, get those typing fingers warmed up!� I know that you have both of these and I would also like to ask (I forget) which one of these in powering your 65-gallon? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33732	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

1,000's of people run Walstad tanks and have been doing so for years... the first edition of her book came out in 1999. As long as you follow the directions, they work out fine and are very low maintenance compared to our "normal" tanks. If and/or when you do feel the need to vacuum the substrate, just vacuum the surface ONLY... do NOT plunge the siphon hose down into the substrate. There is a forum that Diana Walstad actually moderates specifically for folks having questions about this set-up.. as well as the FAQ's section in the pinned topic section of the forum and the many threads by others that you can read and learn from. Post some pictures after you get it set up. Here's about 10 folks that have YouTubed their Walstad Aquariums... http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=walstad+aquarium <http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=walstad+aquarium&search_type=&a q=f> &search_type=&aq=f If the link breaks.. just go to YouTube and search for 'walstad aquarium' and you'll find them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought it was safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is having enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the bottom of the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't leach anything into the water and as far as I know it shouldn't affect the PH of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. Yes I let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If this doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set up the 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very clear and there have been no fish casualties. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but for some > plants, I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some > potting soil first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the > plants access to more nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type > fertilizer (especially made for aquariums) under the plant so that it > slowly dissolves providing nutrients for the plants. > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." blog > but I think you've already been to those pages before. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some bogwood > wuth java fern attached. > > Lisa > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 > 5:29:12 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 3:21:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 3:58:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33733	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Fish Lifepans (was: Newbie form Atlanta ga)

Dora, Lots of other pet fish live for 15 years or more.. usually the larger species. Goldfish live for over 20 years and the record is over 40 years right now... fancy goldfish live about 1/2 the lifespan of their "natural" counterparts mostly due to the inbreeding that took place to develop their "fancy" features. Koi live for over 100 years. My blog article on the topic has a LONG list of 100's of the most common fish and their expected lifespans. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga Too bad they have to live under water; I can think of some parrot flight cages tehy'd be very happy in! It seems like if someoen wants a pet that's going to live for 15 years, maybe they're ready to upgrade? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@... <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 8:19:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Oscars should live 12 to 15+ years if kept in a proper sized tank that is properly maintained. You can find more lifespan info in my ever growing blog article on that topic... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.ht m> l You didn't mention your tank size, so I'm guessing my earlier guess was accurate. As you saw, trying to keep fish in an undersized tank (or overstocking a tank) will quickly lead to many health issues and usually an early death of the fish. Lenny Vasbinder I have book marked you blog.. My tank was 20 gallons and I did not know that Oscars needed a 75 gallon tank for one fish. Jon _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 4:06:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33734	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33735	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga

The caveats of breeding and distributing them?! What! They're not allowed to breed without permission from the inventor! LOLOLOLOLOL! Seriously, I did a paper in graduate school on teh subject of patenting genes - among other problems, it simply isn't possible. LOL. Think that gene's already out of the barrel. For all we know it's swimming down some creek in Texas, and ready to take over teh Gulf when danios take over the native species. LOLOL! Maybe they're going to go to Court, and get a court-appointed tax to extract a penny from every glowing danio out there. LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:58 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga Jon, By now, if you have looked at previous discussions here on the Glofish(R), you have discovered that they have site produced by the commercial arm of the developers of the fish, www.glofish.com. While it may not put to rest your idea that Caroline Biological Supply developed these animals, it should provide you with all the information you need to keep them, and the caveats of breeding and distributing them. Your grounding in genetics may well be an asset to members of this forum when the discussion turns to varieties that have been developed over the years through selective breeding in a way that would be much better than those of us who have a smattering of genetic knowledge (you know, we can dig the hole, but can't get out <g>), even though your specialty may not be fish genetics. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 12:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/27/2008 11:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) Lenny, Thanks for the advise. Have you tried any of the "glow in the dark" genetically engineered fish developed by Carolina Biological Supply? They are not really expensive. I understand that the Japanese are selling them in Fish stores now. _http://www.carolina.com/_ (http://www.carolina.com/) Jon ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

DebR, I'm going to answer each paragraph in a separate answer following each paragraph to try and keep it simple. See below. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? well, not me, but my fish, lol. Hi! I'm DebR, from Michigan. I recently came into ownership of three fancy goldfish, due to their last owner developing back problems and not being able to care for the aquarium properly. When they arrived, I noticed right away that one had some small white cottony spots around the base of it's tail. Since their arrival, those spots have spread and now a second fish has a few spots. The dominant fish seems to be completely fine at the moment, but I'm not assuming that won't change soon. LENNY'S ANSWER - Read my Goldfish Care Sheet on my blog for general information about their basic needs. The fish are in my dd's aquarium that was actually set up for mollies over a year ago, but the mollies were lost to nitrate/nitrite spikes and she never replaced the fish, but kept the aquarium, occasionally running the filter and replacing the water with filtered tap water as it evaporated. The aquarium has gone for a year this way and never gotten cloudy or smelly. I tested the water. It was very slightly high in ammonia and nitrite, and I treated for and corrected that. LENNYS'S ANSWER - I hope the tank is BIG. For three adult fancy goldfish, you should have 25G to 30G per goldfish of water volume (as a minimum) and at least a 4' long tank. Anything less than that size tank will result in you doing almost daily PWC's to keep the water quality in halfway decent condition (I do weekly maintenance on my 65G with two fancies). ALWAYS run the filter (Also read my blog article on Filter Maintenance And Cleaning). If you turn it off, the good nitrifying bacteria (the ones that eat the ammonia and nitrites) will die off and your fish will suffer from ammonia/nitrite poisoning. The filter also helps keep the O2 levels up in the water which Goldfish need. What did you do to "treat" these issues? The best way to "treat" high ammonia and nitrite levels is by doing a series of 25% PWC's until the levels are low enough. You need to start doing 25% PWC's (partial water changes) and vacuuming the gravel to remove the fish waste and detritus to improve their water quality. These fish will not recover if you do not improve their water quality. Good water will do more for a fishes own immune system to help out the fish than almost anything else. Our house thermostat is set at 65 deg during the day and 60 deg at night. Should I get a heater and keep the aquarium closer to 70? LENNY'S ANSWER - Your house temps will be fine for common Goldfish but if you have a heater, it would be OK to keep it up in the low 70's which is better for fancy goldfish. I started treating two days ago with malachite green, once a day preceded by a 30% water change. The treatments are stressing the more affected goldfish, but I'm afraid not treating will doom all three of them. LENNY'S ANSWER - It's good that you are doing the daily 30% PWC's. Check out the pictures on this site and read over all of the other info for each diagnosis... http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html TinyURL since the main link will wrap - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee ALWAYS be reasonably sure of the correct disease before starting treatment. There are bacterial infections that can appear to be a fungus. In the future, start off with a Salt treatment until you are certain of the condition.. unless you were already certain. Here's a good article on the usage of salt... http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Is there anything that I should be doing differently? LENNY'S ANSWER - Tell us more about your tank, filtration, etc. and I'm sure there's plenty I could offer. Oh yeah... one last note... I do not recommend these treatments for "your" fungus problem. LOL DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 4:35:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33737	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Yes. Less than two inches, adn danio and tetra sized would be even better. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33738	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Many Tanganyikan shell dwellers only grow to around 2" or so and prefer your hard water. Here's a few small ones. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 Here's a LONG list but not all are as small.. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14 Don't let the common names scare you... the "Giant Mpimbwe" only grows to around 5". LOL http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 There are some cookie cutter set-up suggestions on this page depending on the size of the tank you are thinking of for them. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Yes. Less than two inches, adn danio and tetra sized would be even better. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@... <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com <http://fish.Mongabay.com> is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> ------------------------------------ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:12:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33739	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Others will chip in the best strategy at this point. I think that actually they shouldn't have been put in a cycled or quasi-cycled aquarium while they are sick, but they're there now. But just so you know, you're describing a bacterial disease that is often mistaken for fungus. It needs a good broad spectrum antibiotic. It is hard to treat a bacterial skin infection without killing the nitrogen processing bacteria. There is a fungal disease that looks similar but it wouldn't have started by eating the fins. I don't know if it would respond to pimafix and melafix, and I don't know what temperature range is best for sick goldfish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? well, not me, but my fish, lol. Hi! I'm DebR, from Michigan. I recently came into ownership of three fancy goldfish, due to their last owner developing back problems and not being able to care for the aquarium properly. When they arrived, I noticed right away that one had some small white cottony spots around the base of it's tail. Since their arrival, those spots have spread and now a second fish has a few spots. The dominant fish seems to be completely fine at the moment, but I'm not assuming that won't change soon. The fish are in my dd's aquarium that was actually set up for mollies over a year ago, but the mollies were lost to nitrate/nitrite spikes and she never replaced the fish, but kept the aquarium, occasionally running the filter and replacing the water with filtered tap water as it evaporated. The aquarium has gone for a year this way and never gotten cloudy or smelly. I tested the water. It was very slightly high in ammonia and nitrite, and I treated for and corrected that. Our house thermostat is set at 65 deg during the day and 60 deg at night. Should I get a heater and keep the aquarium closer to 70? I started treating two days ago with malachite green, once a day preceded by a 30% water change. The treatments are stressing the more affected goldfish, but I'm afraid not treating will doom all three of them. Is there anything that I should be doing differently? DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33740	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Yes, Many very small Cichlids are available. The very fish they were showing are available. I used to have a colony of them myself. Great little fish. http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=65 http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/shelldwellers.php http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=61 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/n_brevis.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ultimate_shellie_tank.php http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/shellweb/ http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/shell-dwellers.html http://www.duboisi.com/forum/profiles_multifasciatus.php There are a lot of Apistogramma species that are often considered more colorful than most of the Tanganyikan dwarf Cichlids. http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/%c2%a0 has lists of Apistos David Soares in Oregon breeds some gorgeous Apistos. He also sells on Aquabid. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Apistodave http://apistogrammaidiots.com/Fishroom_1/fishroom_1.html http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/index.php -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 1:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> S ent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fish that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33741	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

In a message dated 11/28/2008 4:40:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Are you talking about those dyed danios? I think there may even be some genetically modified danios! The GloFish ARE genetically modified. I have never heard of a fish injected with dye before. To me injecting a fish with dye would be cruel. They take the fish eggs and inject a bioluminescent gene extracted form a jellyfish. It appears that the genes inserts at random in the chromosomes of the fish so some of them "florescence" and before someone tells me that fluorescence is different form luminescence I am aware of that but the bottom line is they Glo. Some even better under a " near UV" light AKA back light. Now for the response to the smell. It was a fishy smell and now I know that I had too many Oscars in such a tank. People keep asking/telling me that I can get cichlids. I read that an Oscar was a relative of the Cichlids. The cichlids I have seen are as aggressive as the Oscars. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33742	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Whoops, I overlooked http://www.davesfish.com/?which is in Texas and if I recall you haunt, er live in Texas and this may be closer if you want to get some dwarf Cichlids. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 3:48 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Yes, Many?very small Cichlids are available. The very fish they were showing are available. I used to have a colony of them myself. Great little fish. http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=65 http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/shelldwellers.php http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=61 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/n_brevis.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ultimate_shellie_tank.php http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/shellweb/ http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/shell-dwellers.html http://www.duboisi.com/forum/profiles_multifasciatus.php There are a lot of Apistogramma species that are often considered more colorful than most of the Tanganyikan dwarf Cichlids. http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/? has lists of Apistos David Soares in Oregon breeds some gorgeous Apistos. He also sells on Aquabid. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Apistodave http://apistogrammaidiots.com/Fishroom_1/fishroom_1.html http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/index.php -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 1:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> S ent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fish that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33743	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

There are actual danios injected with dye to make them pretty colors. I'm completely at sea when it comes with which ones are dyed adn which genetically modified. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 4:40:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Are you talking about those dyed danios? I think there may even be some genetically modified danios! The GloFish ARE genetically modified. I have never heard of a fish injected with dye before. To me injecting a fish with dye would be cruel. They take the fish eggs and inject a bioluminescent gene extracted form a jellyfish. It appears that the genes inserts at random in the chromosomes of the fish so some of them "florescence" and before someone tells me that fluorescence is different form luminescence I am aware of that but the bottom line is they Glo. Some even better under a " near UV" light AKA back light. Now for the response to the smell. It was a fishy smell and now I know that I had too many Oscars in such a tank. People keep asking/telling me that I can get cichlids. I read that an Oscar was a relative of the Cichlids. The cichlids I have seen are as aggressive as the Oscars. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33744	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Hi Jon, Oscars are Cichlids. Many Cichlid keepers joke that Angelfish and Discus are not Cichlids but it is so we can tease Discus and Angelfish breeders. -Mike I had too many Oscars in such a tank. People keep asking/telling me that I can get cichlids. I read that an Oscar was a relative of the Cichlids. The cichlids I have seen are as aggressive as the Oscars. Jon -----Original Message----- From: johchance1@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 3:47 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 4:40:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Are you talking about those dyed danios? I think there may even be some genetically modified danios! The GloFish ARE genetically modified. I have never heard of a fish injected with dye before. To me injecting a fish with dye would be cruel. They take the fish eggs and inject a bioluminescent gene extracted form a jellyfish. It appears that the genes inserts at random in the chromosomes of the fish so some of them "florescence" and before someone tells me that fluorescence is different form luminescence I am aware of that but the bottom line is they Glo. Some even better under a " near UV" light AKA back light. Now for the response to the smell. It was a fishy smell and now I know that I had too many Oscars in such a tank. People keep asking/telling me that I can get cichlids. I read that an Oscar was a rela tive of the Cichlids. The cichlids I have seen are as aggressive as the Oscars. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33745	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

In a message dated 11/28/2008 7:07:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tiggernut24@... writes: There are actual danios injected with dye to make them pretty colors. I'm completely at sea when it comes with which ones are dyed adn which genetically modified. Yours, Dora Smith Dora, I am sure that you know what you are talking about. I just found out about the GloFish when our Dept Chair asked me to pick out an molecular biology experiments for our advanced micro students. The GloFish were on the same page in the catalogue as the bacteria transformations kits. I later saw a special on them on the Discovery channel. But geneticist have been inserting these "traceable genes" in zebra fish for about 10 years now. _http://www.bookrags.com/research/zebrafish-gen-04/_ (http://www.bookrags.com/research/zebrafish-gen-04/) jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

"so we can tease Discus and Angelfish breeders." Wow Mike... you're a party animal! I bet Rudolph (and the Malls) are glad that you weren't around the North Pole back in the day! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga Hi Jon, Oscars are Cichlids. Many Cichlid keepers joke that Angelfish and Discus are not Cichlids but it is so we can tease Discus and Angelfish breeders. -Mike I had too many Oscars in such a tank. People keep asking/telling me that I can get cichlids. I read that an Oscar was a relative of the Cichlids. The cichlids I have seen are as aggressive as the Oscars. Jon -----Original Message----- From: johchance1@... <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 3:47 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 4:40:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> writes: Are you talking about those dyed danios? I think there may even be some genetically modified danios! The GloFish ARE genetically modified. I have never heard of a fish injected with dye before. To me injecting a fish with dye would be cruel. They take the fish eggs and inject a bioluminescent gene extracted form a jellyfish. It appears that the genes inserts at random in the chromosomes of the fish so some of them "florescence" and before someone tells me that fluorescence is different form luminescence I am aware of that but the bottom line is they Glo. Some even better under a " near UV" light AKA back light. Now for the response to the smell. It was a fishy smell and now I know that I had too many Oscars in such a tank. People keep asking/telling me that I can get cichlids. I read that an Oscar was a rela tive of the Cichlids. The cichlids I have seen are as aggressive as the Oscars. Jon _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 6:47:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33747	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Amber, You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well aware of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was that I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under under another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but then I have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my upper substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet of the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some control over the suction and cut down on the chance of exposing the "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish.  You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter the pH of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in the tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought it was safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is having enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the bottom of the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't leach anything into the water and as far as I know it shouldn't affect the PH of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. Yes I let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If this doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set up the 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very clear and there have been no fish casualties. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but for some > plants, > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some potting > soil > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants access to > more > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer (especially made > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves providing > nutrients for the plants. > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." blog > but I > think you've already been to those pages before. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of=2 0Lisa Lawless > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some bogwood wuth > java fern attached. > > Lisa > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 > Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:29:12 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33748	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2”. The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6”. The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps I have 6 of them. Grow to 6”. I have 20 of the “sardines”, they grow to 3-4”. That’s just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2” to 6” are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33749	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie form Atlanta ga

Hey Lenny, Some of us Fish Geeks definitely have our own sense of humor ;) Many people in my local clubs are always amazed at all the new names applied to discus. Sunset eruption, sunset snowflake eruption etc etc. I used to think about making a Discus name generator so you could enter random details of the discus to be named and have it spit out a new name. Not unlike Guppies they have many many names for seemingly similar colors and patterns. http://www.discusnada.org/discus/classification.html -Mike, who doesn't get out much anymore. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:47 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga "so we can tease Discus and Angelfish breeders." Wow Mike... you're a party animal! I bet Rudolph (and the Malls) are glad that you weren't around the North Pole back in the day! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga Hi Jon, Oscars are Cichlids. Many Cichlid keepers joke that Angelfish and Discus are not Cichlids but it is so we can tease Discus and Angelfish breeders. -Mike I had too many Oscars in such a tank. People keep asking/telling me that I can get cichlids. I read that an Oscar was a relative of the Cichlids. The cichlids I have seen are as aggressive as the Oscars. Jon -----Original Message----- From: johchance1@... <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 3:47 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 4:40:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> writes: Are you talking about those dyed danios? I think there may even be some genetically modified danios! The GloFish ARE genetically modified. I have never heard of a fish injected with dye before. To me injecting a fish with dye would be cruel. They take the fish eggs and inject a bioluminescent gene extracted form a jellyfish. It appears that the genes inserts at random in the chromosomes of the fish so some of them "florescence" and before someone tells me that fluorescence is different form luminescence I am aware of that but the bottom line is they Glo. Some even better under a " near UV" light AKA back light. Now for the response to the smell. It was a fishy smell and now I know that I had too many Oscars in such a tank. People keep asking/telling me that I can get cichlids. I read that an Oscar was a rela tive of the Cichlids. The cichlids I have seen are as aggressive as the Oscars. Jon _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Da tabase (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 6:47:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33750	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Lenny, do the shell dwellers all have small females and big males or something? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Many Tanganyikan shell dwellers only grow to around 2" or so and prefer your hard water. Here's a few small ones. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 Here's a LONG list but not all are as small.. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14 Don't let the common names scare you... the "Giant Mpimbwe" only grows to around 5". LOL http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 There are some cookie cutter set-up suggestions on this page depending on the size of the tank you are thinking of for them. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Yes. Less than two inches, adn danio and tetra sized would be even better. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@... <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com <http://fish.Mongabay.com> is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> ------------------------------------ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:12:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33751	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

It said in the film that some are the size of my thumbnail, but didn't specify which ones or which part of my thumbnail (the whole thumbnail or the part you cut off). Do the shell spawners live in shells only when breeding? Because if I just want to look at pretty shells in my tank, I can get shellfish! It says they are monomorphic, but on the film, it said that the males are too big to get into the shells, which keeps them from eating the eggs or something. Are the males of these species as small as the females? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Many Tanganyikan shell dwellers only grow to around 2" or so and prefer your hard water. Here's a few small ones. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 Here's a LONG list but not all are as small.. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14 Don't let the common names scare you... the "Giant Mpimbwe" only grows to around 5". LOL http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 There are some cookie cutter set-up suggestions on this page depending on the size of the tank you are thinking of for them. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Yes. Less than two inches, adn danio and tetra sized would be even better. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@... <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@... <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com <http://fish.Mongabay.com> is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> ------------------------------------ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:12:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33752	From: Alina	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Happy fish boilin' at Alina's

Ray and the gang, I know I shouldn't be shocked but the heat appears to have killed the Ich in my tank. I've maintained the tank at about 87F, though I had one day of 88 (oops), and all my fishy friends seem happier than pigs in poop. All spots have disappeared from all the fish. If I don't see any more, I'll leave the temp this way three more days. Fingers are crossed. For anyone else reading this, I had one fish with Ich, then two before I realized what was happening. I have snails and Corys, and a mini Pleco that wouldn't tolerate the salt (though I have since learned that the snails will tolerate somewhere around 1 tsp per 5 gallons) so I had to try an all-natural method. Turning up the heat appears to be working great. I did feel odd, you worry you're boiling them, and I did do PWC to help get rid of any parasites making home in the gravel...(and then matching the new water temp.Oy!) So far, everyone seems to be coming through this like troopers. And the snails are active like crazy. So thanks for all the help! Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33753	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

The shellie that was pictured has large males and tiny females. They are also not among the most common in the hobby. I don’t think I would mix shell dwellers from Africa into a typical tropical community. I’d say the more readily available shellie types are 2” when adult with males only slightly larger than females. They don’t live in the shell 24/7. Monomorphic means male/female are the same color, not the same size. I have Brevis. A lot of people like Multifasciatus. Then there are more feisty types like Ocellatus, etc. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? It said in the film that some are the size of my thumbnail, but didn't specify which ones or which part of my thumbnail (the whole thumbnail or the part you cut off). Do the shell spawners live in shells only when breeding? Because if I just want to look at pretty shells in my tank, I can get shellfish! It says they are monomorphic, but on the film, it said that the males are too big to get into the shells, which keeps them from eating the eggs or something. Are the males of these species as small as the females? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Many Tanganyikan shell dwellers only grow to around 2" or so and prefer your hard water. Here's a few small ones. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 Here's a LONG list but not all are as small.. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14> forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14 Don't let the common names scare you... the "Giant Mpimbwe" only grows to around 5". LOL http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 There are some cookie cutter set-up suggestions on this page depending on the size of the tank you are thinking of for them. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Yes. Less than two inches, adn danio and tetra sized would be even better. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> ------------------------------------ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:12:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33754	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

I like the multifasciatus. But where do you get teh specialized shells they live in? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? The shellie that was pictured has large males and tiny females. They are also not among the most common in the hobby. I don't think I would mix shell dwellers from Africa into a typical tropical community. I'd say the more readily available shellie types are 2" when adult with males only slightly larger than females. They don't live in the shell 24/7. Monomorphic means male/female are the same color, not the same size. I have Brevis. A lot of people like Multifasciatus. Then there are more feisty types like Ocellatus, etc. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? It said in the film that some are the size of my thumbnail, but didn't specify which ones or which part of my thumbnail (the whole thumbnail or the part you cut off). Do the shell spawners live in shells only when breeding? Because if I just want to look at pretty shells in my tank, I can get shellfish! It says they are monomorphic, but on the film, it said that the males are too big to get into the shells, which keeps them from eating the eggs or something. Are the males of these species as small as the females? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Many Tanganyikan shell dwellers only grow to around 2" or so and prefer your hard water. Here's a few small ones. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 Here's a LONG list but not all are as small.. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14> forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14 Don't let the common names scare you... the "Giant Mpimbwe" only grows to around 5". LOL http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 There are some cookie cutter set-up suggestions on this page depending on the size of the tank you are thinking of for them. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Yes. Less than two inches, adn danio and tetra sized would be even better. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> ------------------------------------ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:12:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33755	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

I use escargot shells. I have pruchased them a couple times on ebay. If you get some shell dwellers make sure that you get all the air out of the shells and if you remove the shells and put them back in the tank make sure you get the air out again. A pocket of air can trap babies even a parent can get trapped if the air pocket interferes with their access to the tank. A speaker that came to one of our local clubs mentioned drilling a hole throught the shell to ensure all the air escaped. -Mike http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=escargot+shells&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=escargot&_osacat=0 -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 6:03 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I like the multifasciatus. But where do you get teh specialized shells they live in? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? The shellie that was pictured has large males and tiny females. They are also not among the most common in the hobby. I don't think I would mix shell dwellers from Africa into a typical tropical community. I'd say the more readily available shellie types are 2" when adult with males only slightly larger than females. They don't live in the shell 24/7. Monomorphic20means male/female are the same color, not the same size. I have Brevis. A lot of people like Multifasciatus. Then there are more feisty types like Ocellatus, etc. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? It said in the film that some are the size of my thumbnail, but didn't specify which ones or which part of my thumbnail (the whole thumbnail or the part you cut off). Do the shell spawners live in shells only when breeding? Because if I just want to look at pretty shells in my tank, I can get shellfish! It says they are monomorphic, but on the film, it said that the males are too big to get into the shells, which keeps them from eating the eggs or something. Are the males of these species as small as the females? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Many Tanganyikan shell dwellers only grow to around 2" or so and prefer your hard water. Here's a few small ones. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/ profiles/species.php?id=1758> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 Here's a LONG list but not all are as small.. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14> forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14 Don't let the common names scare you... the "Giant Mpimbwe" only grows to around 5". LOL http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 There are some cookie cutter set-up suggestions on this page depending on the size of the tank you are thinking of for them. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Yes. Less than two inches, adn danio and tetra sized would be even better. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Or iginal Message ----- From: <flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny %40gmail.com> writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> ------------------------------------ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:12:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33756	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

In a message dated 11/28/2008 9:49:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Deenerz@... writes: I use escargot shells. I have pruchased them a couple times on ebay. If you get some shell dwellers make sure that you get all the air out of the shells and if you remove the shells and put them back in the tank make sure you get the air out again. A pocket of air can trap babies even a parent can get trapped if the air pocket interferes with their access to the tank. A speaker that came to one of our local clubs mentioned drilling a hole throught the shell to ensure all the air escaped. -Mike I eat escargot but usually break the shell. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33757	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH up (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what I've read that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is "used up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as I don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add some later to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do have the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral in it, I suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to add to my filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get straight crushed coral sand instead? I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a stable range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it doesn't seem to be fluctuating. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > Amber, > > You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well aware > of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was that > I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under under > another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but then I > have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my upper > substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet of > the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some > control over the suction and cut down on the chance of exposing the > "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad > bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. > > You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter the pH > of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in the > tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought it was > safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is having > enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the bottom of > the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). > I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't leach > anything into the water and as far > as I know it shouldn't affect the PH > of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. Yes I > let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If this > doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set up the > 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another > gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very clear and > there have been no fish casualties. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but for some > > plants, > > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some potting > > soil > > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants access to > > more > > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer > (especially made > > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves providing > > nutrients for the plants. > > > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." blog > > but I > > think you've already been to those pages before. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of=2 > 0Lisa Lawless > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some > bogwood wuth > > java fern attached. > > > > Lisa > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 > > Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:29:12 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33758	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Fil

Hi Bill, I know several others have responded but I will throw in my two cents as well. I would buy the Aqua Clear filters again. I have some and as far as powered filtration goes they are my favorite. I have used canisters and will probably use them again in the future but my preference is for the Aqua clears. Very easy to clean the sponges in old tank water, you do not harm the beneficial bacteria this way. Easy to add Polyfil if you want to clean up or polish the water. Easy to add or remove carbon if you feel the need to use it as well as coral or peat if you want to play with your water. If something does break like the impeller it is easy enough to replace. Same goes for the motor. Easy to remove and replace. I have a BioWheel 170 filter that works pretty good just not as many options as the AquaClear and I would not want to attempt to replace the motor on a BioWheel filter like the 170. I am not sure if you can. With all but the largest Aqua Clear you can double up on the sponges. This allows you to remove one sponge and give it a good wringing out in a bucket of recently removed tank water. While leaving the other sponge in the tank. You can probably wring both of them out and put them back in at the same time but if you are nervous you can do one at a time. Doubling up on the sponges can also help if you start a brand new tank. Buy another filter, the same model, and drop one of the sponges from=2 0the filter of the running tank and you are set to go. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:16 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Filter by Rena. I would like some performance comments here.  If you have one of these would you uy another?  Does one “type” HOB or Canister have something over the other ype?  What is it?  Which is the most convenient to use? enny, get those typing fingers warmed up!  I know that you have both of these nd I would also like to ask (I forget) which one of these in powering your 5-gallon? ill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Gr oups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33759	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my reading is normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the fish/decorations/etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, there's no way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill all of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my first PH test today. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH up > (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what I've read > that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is "used > up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as I > don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add some later > to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do have > the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral in it, I > suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to add to my > filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get straight > crushed coral sand instead? > I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a stable > range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it doesn't seem to > be fluctuating. > > Amber > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > Amber, > > > > You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well aware > > of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was that > > I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under under > > another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but then I > > have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my upper > > substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet of > > the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some > > control over the suction and cut down on the chance of exposing the > > "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad > > bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. > > > > You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter the pH > > of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in the > > tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought it was > > safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is having > > enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the bottom of > > the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). > > I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't leach > > anything into the water and as far > > as I know it shouldn't affect the PH > > of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. Yes I > > let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If this > > doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set up the > > 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another > > gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very clear and > > there have been no fish casualties. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > > > > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but for some > > > plants, > > > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some potting > > > soil > > > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants access to > > > more > > > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer > > (especially made > > > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves providing > > > nutrients for the plants. > > > > > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." blog > > > but I > > > think you've already been to those pages before. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of=2 > > 0Lisa Lawless > > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > > > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some > > bogwood wuth > > > java fern attached. > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>>>> : > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 > > > Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:29:12 AM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33760	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do want to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best method that is safest? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my reading is > normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the > fish/decorations/etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, there's no > way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill all > of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my first PH > test today. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH up > > (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what I've read > > that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is "used > > up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as I > > don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add some later > > to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do have > > the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral in it, I > > suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to add to my > > filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get straight > > crushed coral sand instead? > > I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a stable > > range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it doesn't seem to > > be fluctuating. > > > > Amber > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well aware > > > of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was that > > > I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under under > > > another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but then I > > > have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my upper > > > substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet of > > > the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some > > > control over the suction and cut down on the chance of exposing the > > > "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad > > > bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. > > > > > > You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter the pH > > > of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in the > > > tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought > it was > > > safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is having > > > enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the bottom of > > > the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). > > > I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't > leach > > > anything into the water and as far > > > as I know it shouldn't affect the PH > > > of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. Yes I > > > let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If > this > > > doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set up the > > > 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another > > > gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very > clear and > > > there have been no fish casualties. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > > > > > > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but for some > > > > plants, > > > > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some > potting > > > > soil > > > > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants > access to > > > > more > > > > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer > > > (especially made > > > > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves providing > > > > nutrients for the plants. > > > > > > > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." > blog > > > > but I > > > > think you've already been to those pages before. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of=2 > > > 0Lisa Lawless > > > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > > > > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some > > > bogwood wuth > > > > java fern attached. > > > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>>> > > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>> <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>>>> : > > > > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081127-1, 11/27/2008 > > > > Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:29:12 AM > > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33761	From: Lisa	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: German blue rams

Are German Blue rams compatible with Dwarf gorami, danios and platys? And all I need is a simple yes or no thanks. LoL Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33762	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in the area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's Co-op). You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you need to maintain your desired hardness. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do want to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best method that is safest? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my reading is > normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the > fish/decorations/etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, there's no > way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill all > of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my first PH > test today. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH up > > (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what I've read > > that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is "used > > up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as I > > don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add some later > > to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do have > > the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral in it, I > > suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to add to my > > filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get straight > > crushed coral sand instead? > > I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a stable > > range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it doesn't seem to > > be fluctuating. > > > > Amber > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well aware > > > of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was that > > > I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under under > > > another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but then I > > > have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my upper > > > substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet of > > > the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some > > > control over the suction and cut down on the chance of exposing the > > > "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad > > > bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. > > > > > > You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter the pH > > > of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in the > > > tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought > it was > > > safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is having > > > enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the bottom of > > > the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). > > > I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't > leach > > > anything into the water and as far > > > as I know it shouldn't affect the PH > > > of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. Yes I > > > let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If > this > > > doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set up the > > > 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another > > > gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very > clear and > > > there have been no fish casualties. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > > > > > > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but for some > > > > plants, > > > > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some > potting > > > > soil > > > > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants > access to > > > > more > > > > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer > > > (especially made > > > > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves providing > > > > nutrients for the plants. > > > > > > > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." > blog > > > > but I > > > > think you've already been to those pages before. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of=2 > > > 0Lisa Lawless > > > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > > > > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some > > > bogwood wuth > > > > java fern attached. > > > > > > > > Lisa > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33763	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: German blue rams

Lisa, To be truthful, there is no yes or no answer to your question. Rams, on the whole, require a more acid water than do danios and platys. Rams can be aggressive. Usually this is among conspecifics, but can spread to other species, particularly if they are breeding. However, this can be very dependent on the particular individuals you get, and the provision of hiding places that they can call home. This may be why we call the hobby the art and science of fishkeeping. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] German blue rams Are German Blue rams compatible with Dwarf gorami, danios and platys? And all I need is a simple yes or no thanks. LoL Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33764	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Is there any amount of dolomite lime you would recommend to start with for a 125 gallon tank? I have very soft water (barely reads on most test kits). And if I could find my test strips I'd tell you what it's at right now, LOL. I think last test GH was around 25, and Kh was over 0, but under 40 (the next color on the test strip). I need to find a better test for GH and KH, my master test kit doesn't test for it and I didn't think to look for one that did when I first got it. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in the > area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's Co-op). > You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it > and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because > you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you > need to maintain your desired hardness. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do want > to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best method > that is safest? > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my > reading is > > normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the > > fish/decorations/etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, there's no > > way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill all > > of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my first PH > > test today. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH up > > > (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what I've > read > > > that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is > "used > > > up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as I > > > don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add some > later > > > to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do have > > > the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral in it, I > > > suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to add to my > > > filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get straight > > > crushed coral sand instead? > > > I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a stable > > > range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it doesn't > seem to > > > be fluctuating. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well > aware > > > > of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was > that > > > > I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under under > > > > another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but then I > > > > have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my > upper > > > > substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet of > > > > the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some > > > > control over the suction and cut down on the chance of exposing the > > > > "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad > > > > bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. > > > > > > > > You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter > the pH > > > > of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in the > > > > tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > > > Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought > > it was > > > > safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is > having > > > > enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the > bottom of > > > > the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). > > > > I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't > > leach > > > > anything into the water and as far > > > > as I know it shouldn't affect the PH > > > > of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. > Yes I > > > > let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If > > this > > > > doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set > up the > > > > 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another > > > > gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very > > clear and > > > > there have been no fish casualties. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > > > > > > > > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but > for some > > > > > plants, > > > > > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some > > potting > > > > > soil > > > > > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants > > access to > > > > > more > > > > > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer > > > > (especially made > > > > > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves > providing > > > > > nutrients for the plants. > > > > > > > > > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." > > blog > > > > > but I > > > > > think you've already been to those pages before. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of=2 > > > > 0Lisa Lawless > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > > > > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > > > > > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some > > > > bogwood wuth > > > > > java fern attached. > > > > > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33765	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/28/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

I would get a reliable test kit first, before adding any dolomite or other substance to the water to increase the hardness. There are many things that can affect the accuracy of test strips. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank Is there any amount of dolomite lime you would recommend to start with for a 125 gallon tank? I have very soft water (barely reads on most test kits). And if I could find my test strips I'd tell you what it's at right now, LOL. I think last test GH was around 25, and Kh was over 0, but under 40 (the next color on the test strip). I need to find a better test for GH and KH, my master test kit doesn't test for it and I didn't think to look for one that did when I first got it. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in the > area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's Co-op). > You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it > and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because > you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you > need to maintain your desired hardness. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do want > to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best method > that is safest? > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my > reading is > > normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the > > fish/decorations/etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, there's no > > way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill all > > of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my first PH > > test today. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH up > > > (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what I've > read > > > that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is > "used > > > up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as I > > > don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add some > later > > > to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do have > > > the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral in it, I > > > suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to add to my > > > filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get straight > > > crushed coral sand instead? > > > I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a stable > > > range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it doesn't > seem to > > > be fluctuating. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well > aware > > > > of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was > that > > > > I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under under > > > > another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but then I > > > > have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my > upper > > > > substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet of > > > > the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some > > > > control over the suction and cut down on the chance of exposing the > > > > "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad > > > > bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. > > > > > > > > You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter > the pH > > > > of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in the > > > > tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > > > Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought > > it was > > > > safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is > having > > > > enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the > bottom of > > > > the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). > > > > I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't > > leach > > > > anything into the water and as far > > > > as I know it shouldn't affect the PH > > > > of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. > Yes I > > > > let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If > > this > > > > doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set > up the > > > > 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another > > > > gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very > > clear and > > > > there have been no fish casualties. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > > > > > > > > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but > for some > > > > > plants, > > > > > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some > > potting > > > > > soil > > > > > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants > > access to > > > > > more > > > > > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer > > > > (especially made > > > > > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves > providing > > > > > nutrients for the plants. > > > > > > > > > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." > > blog > > > > > but I > > > > > think you've already been to those pages before. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of=2 > > > > 0Lisa Lawless > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > > > > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > > > > > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some > > > > bogwood wuth > > > > > java fern attached. > > > > > > > > > > Lisa > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33766	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 injectors

While I'm at it...do i need a CO2 injector for a planted tank? Or will the light, and aquatic plant fertiliser do the job?   Lisa   Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33767	From: Lisa	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: German blue rams

Oh that's ok. I worked it out anyway. But thanks. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lisa, > > To be truthful, there is no yes or no answer to your question. Rams, on > the whole, require a more acid water than do danios and platys. Rams can be aggressive. Usually this is among conspecifics, but can spread to other species, particularly if they are breeding. However, this can be very dependent on the particular individuals you get, and the provision of hiding places that they can call home. This may be why we call the hobby the art and science of fishkeeping. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33768	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Already in process of ordering some now, will get the dolomite lime afterwards. Thanks, Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > I would get a reliable test kit first, before adding any dolomite or > other substance to the water to increase the hardness. There are many > things that can affect the accuracy of test strips. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > Is there any amount of dolomite lime you would recommend to start with > for a 125 gallon tank? > > I have very soft water (barely reads on most test kits). And if I could > find my test strips I'd tell you what it's at right now, LOL. I think > last test GH was around 25, and Kh was over 0, but under 40 (the next > color on the test strip). I need to find a better test for GH and KH, my > master test kit doesn't test for it and I didn't think to look for one > that did when I first got it. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in the > > area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's Co-op). > > You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it > > and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because > > you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you > > need to maintain your desired hardness. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do want > > to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best method > > that is safest? > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my > > reading is > > > normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the > > > fish/decorations/etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, > there's no > > > way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill > all > > > of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my > first PH > > > test today. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the > PH up > > > > (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what I've > > read > > > > that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is > > "used > > > > up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet > as I > > > > don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add some > > later > > > > to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do > have > > > > the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral in > it, I > > > > suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to add > to my > > > > filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get straight > > > > crushed coral sand instead? > > > > I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a > stable > > > > range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it doesn't > > seem to > > > > be fluctuating. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well > > aware > > > > > of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was > > that > > > > > I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under > under > > > > > another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but > then I > > > > > have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my > > upper > > > > > substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the > outlet of > > > > > the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some > > > > > control over the suction and cut down on the chance of > exposing the > > > > > "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad > > > > > bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. > > > > > > > > > > You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter > > the pH > > > > > of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back > in the > > > > > tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the > tank. > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted > tank > > > > > > > > > > Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought > > > it was > > > > > safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is > > having > > > > > enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the > > bottom of > > > > > the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). > > > > > I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it > shouldn't > > > leach > > > > > anything into the water and as far > > > > > as I know it shouldn't affect the PH > > > > > of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. > > Yes I > > > > > let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the > tank. If > > > this > > > > > doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set > > up the > > > > > 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out > another > > > > > gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very > > > clear and > > > > > there have been no fish casualties. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but > > for some > > > > > > plants, > > > > > > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some > > > potting > > > > > > soil > > > > > > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants > > > access to > > > > > > more > > > > > > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer > > > > > (especially made > > > > > > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves > > providing > > > > > > nutrients for the plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted > Tank.." > > > blog > > > > > > but I > > > > > > think you've already been to those pages before. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > > > > Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of=2 > > > > > 0Lisa Lawless > > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > > > > > > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some > > > > > bogwood wuth > > > > > > java fern attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33769	From: flohk13@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: German blue rams

I agree with the previous poster....it depends. However, I keep two Bolivian Rams in a 72g w/ Danios, Otos, Pygmy Cories, Endlers and some Platies. They are not aggressive towards any of the others. Actually, they are less aggressive than my danios and my endlers. However, Bolivians are supposed to be a bit more peaceful than GBR....but not much. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:58 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] German blue rams Lisa, To be truthful, there is no yes or no answer to your question. Rams, on the whole, require a more acid water than do danios and platys. Rams can be aggressive. Usually this is among conspecifics, but can spread to other species, particularly if they are breeding. However, this can be very dependent on the particular individuals you get, and the provision of hiding places that they can call home. This may be why we call the hobby the art and science of fishkeeping. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] German blue rams Are German Blue rams compatible with Dwarf gorami, danios and platys? And all I need is a simple yes or no thanks. LoL Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´=C 2`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33770	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

The next time you order from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com or other online source, API makes a combo-pack GH/KH kit. The last time I looked the combo-pack was around $7.00 and this kit will perform a LOT of accurate tests. These kits are far more cost effective than the dip sticks... not to mention so much more accurate and reliable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 10:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank Is there any amount of dolomite lime you would recommend to start with for a 125 gallon tank? I have very soft water (barely reads on most test kits). And if I could find my test strips I'd tell you what it's at right now, LOL. I think last test GH was around 25, and Kh was over 0, but under 40 (the next color on the test strip). I need to find a better test for GH and KH, my master test kit doesn't test for it and I didn't think to look for one that did when I first got it. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in the > area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's Co-op). > You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it > and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because > you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you > need to maintain your desired hardness. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do > want to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best > method that is safest? > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my > reading is > > normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the > > fish/decorations/etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, there's > > no way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not > > kill all of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did > > my first PH test today. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH > > > up (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what > > > I've > read > > > that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is > "used > > > up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as > > > I don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add > > > some > later > > > to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do > > > have the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral > > > in it, I suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's > > > to add to my filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I > > > get straight crushed coral sand instead? > > > I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a > > > stable range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it > > > doesn't > seem to > > > be fluctuating. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well > aware > > > > of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was > that > > > > I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under > > > > under another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, > > > > but then I have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When > > > > I siphon my > upper > > > > substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet > > > > of the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have > > > > some control over the suction and cut down on the chance of > > > > exposing the "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a > > > > pocket of bad bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. > > > > > > > > You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter > the pH > > > > of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in > > > > the tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted > > > > tank > > > > > > > > Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought > > it was > > > > safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is > having > > > > enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the > bottom of > > > > the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). > > > > I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it > > > > shouldn't > > leach > > > > anything into the water and as far as I know it shouldn't affect > > > > the PH of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been > > > > checking it. > Yes I > > > > let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. > > > > If > > this > > > > doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set > up the > > > > 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out > > > > another gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is > > > > very > > clear and > > > > there have been no fish casualties. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > > > > > > > > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but > for some > > > > > plants, > > > > > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some > > potting > > > > > soil > > > > > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants > > access to > > > > > more > > > > > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer > > > > (especially made > > > > > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves > providing > > > > > nutrients for the plants. > > > > > > > > > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." > > blog > > > > > but I > > > > > think you've already been to those pages before. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >>>>> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of=2 > > > > 0Lisa Lawless > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > > > > > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some > > > > bogwood wuth > > > > > java fern attached. > > > > > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 11:06:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/29/2008 4:29:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33771	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 injectors

Depends on the difficulty level of the plants, their needs and the rest of the system's ecology and whether the tank's ecology will provide the necessary levels of CO2 and other plant nutrients. The light will not increase CO2 but rather will technically lower CO2 because the plants will use up CO2 during photosynthesis when the lights are on. What kind of plant fertilizer do you have.. or were you planning? SeaChem's Excel is one product that will add a source of carbon to the water column but it is detrimental to a couple of common aquarium plants (Vals, Anacharis, Hornwort, etc.) It has to be dosed daily. Below is one of the FAQ's from this page: http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html Q: Is Flourish Excel a replacement for CO2 in a planted aquarium? A: Yes and no. It provides the same benefit as CO2, i.e. it provides the plants with a source of carbon for growth just as CO2 provides them with carbon. However CO2 by itself will give you quantitatively more growth than Excel by itself, although Excel does provide a substantial amount in comparison. If CO2 is a 10, Excel is a 6-7. Using both together provides additional benefit. One of the advantages of the Excel is no up front equipment costs and complexity of valves, hoses and regulators, etc. (END SNIP) I do not add any kinds of plant fertilizers but then I have easy to grow plants that do well with just the nutrients added by my fish and tap water. I would try to go low-tech at first unless you are definitely planning on jumping into the deep end of the pool.. oops.. I meant tank. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 injectors While I'm at it...do i need a CO2 injector for a planted tank? Or will the light, and aquatic plant fertiliser do the job? Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/29/2008 5:00:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33772	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Most people just use escargot shells or whale eye shells. Try this website: www.cichlidbreeding.com <http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/> . The Neothauma is from the lake (they are out of stock a lot). I bought a dozen whale-eye shells for my Brevis. Multifasciatus need MANY shells per fish and really like it when the shells are two levels deep. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 9:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I like the multifasciatus. But where do you get teh specialized shells they live in? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? The shellie that was pictured has large males and tiny females. They are also not among the most common in the hobby. I don't think I would mix shell dwellers from Africa into a typical tropical community. I'd say the more readily available shellie types are 2" when adult with males only slightly larger than females. They don't live in the shell 24/7. Monomorphic means male/female are the same color, not the same size. I have Brevis. A lot of people like Multifasciatus. Then there are more feisty types like Ocellatus, etc. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? It said in the film that some are the size of my thumbnail, but didn't specify which ones or which part of my thumbnail (the whole thumbnail or the part you cut off). Do the shell spawners live in shells only when breeding? Because if I just want to look at pretty shells in my tank, I can get shellfish! It says they are monomorphic, but on the film, it said that the males are too big to get into the shells, which keeps them from eating the eggs or something. Are the males of these species as small as the females? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Many Tanganyikan shell dwellers only grow to around 2" or so and prefer your hard water. Here's a few small ones. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1749 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1758 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1743 http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 Here's a LONG list but not all are as small.. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14> forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14> forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14 Don't let the common names scare you... the "Giant Mpimbwe" only grows to around 5". LOL http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746> forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1746 There are some cookie cutter set-up suggestions on this page depending on the size of the tank you are thinking of for them. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Yes. Less than two inches, adn danio and tetra sized would be even better. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> ------------------------------------ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 Tested on: 11/28/2008 5:12:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33773	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 injectors

If there is anyone with a DIY spirit here, maybe he/she/they could colaborate with me creating a co2 generator with an air pump encased with decomposing matter like straw or some other material. ________________________________ From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 12:28:14 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 injectors While I'm at it...do i need a CO2 injector for a planted tank? Or will the light, and aquatic plant fertiliser do the job?  Lisa  Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV.. Enter now http://au.docs yahoo.com/ homepageset/ ?p1=other& p2=au&p3= tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33774	From: Suzi	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Needing advice..

I'm getting a 55 gal aquarium for Christmas. I would love to have some Yellow Tail Acei, Yellow Labs, and Red Zebras, plus when the time comes for a Pleco.. one that grows no more than 5". Can anyone tell me how many I could have .. considering their size when adult? ----- Have a great day! Suzi http://www.photoworks.com/members/Suzi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33775	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 injectors

consider a DIY co2 injector. there are many resources, and while they're pretty involved for a DIY project, they are not impossible, especially if you're the DIY type. All of my known resources are on other forums, so I'll avoid posting them here, however I will say the DIY section of monsterfishkeepers and cichlid-forums is a gold mine of DIY information, including, but certainly not limited to co2 injectors. personally, i'd start easy, get lots of plants going w/o co2, and then add a few tough guys. If they dont flourish, then the co2 would go on my shopping list. i'm cheap though :) On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Depends on the difficulty level of the plants, their needs and the rest > of > the system's ecology and whether the tank's ecology will provide the > necessary levels of CO2 and other plant nutrients. > > The light will not increase CO2 but rather will technically lower CO2 > because the plants will use up CO2 during photosynthesis when the lights > are > on. > > What kind of plant fertilizer do you have.. or were you planning? SeaChem's > Excel is one product that will add a source of carbon to the water column > but it is detrimental to a couple of common aquarium plants (Vals, > Anacharis, Hornwort, etc.) It has to be dosed daily. Below is one of the > FAQ's from this page: > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > Q: Is Flourish Excel a replacement for CO2 in a planted aquarium? > > A: Yes and no. It provides the same benefit as CO2, i.e. it provides the > plants with a source of carbon for growth just as CO2 provides them with > carbon. However CO2 by itself will give you quantitatively more growth than > Excel by itself, although Excel does provide a substantial amount in > comparison. If CO2 is a 10, Excel is a 6-7. Using both together provides > additional benefit. One of the advantages of the Excel is no up front > equipment costs and complexity of valves, hoses and regulators, etc. (END > SNIP) > > I do not add any kinds of plant fertilizers but then I have easy to grow > plants that do well with just the nutrients added by my fish and tap water. > > I would try to go low-tech at first unless you are definitely planning on > jumping into the deep end of the pool.. oops.. I meant tank. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank -CO2 > injectors > > While I'm at it...do i need a CO2 injector for a planted tank? Or will the > light, and aquatic plant fertiliser do the job? > > Lisa > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 > Tested on: 11/29/2008 5:00:01 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33776	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Aquatic Compost Heap. Its bee said, but to far back to find

Imagine a biotope tank that is so heavily planted it covers the gravel and you cannot vacuum the bottom, or a major portion is unvacuumable that you cannot properly clean the gravel. Is this a bad thing? How does it effect the water chemistry? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33777	From: bill1433	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Fil

Mike,   Thanks for responding.  Not many have.  I guess not many use canister filters!  Your answer was what I was looking for in that you mentioned doubling the filter media.  At first I thought the canister filter offered something “magical” that I did not know about. Since nobody really responded in that manner, I have to assume they don’t.   Thanks again, Bill --- On Fri, 11/28/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Filter by Rena. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 10:23 PM Hi Bill, I know several others have responded but I will throw in my two cents as well. I would buy the Aqua Clear filters again. I have some and as far as powered filtration goes they are my favorite. I have used canisters and will probably use them again in the future but my preference is for the Aqua clears. Very easy to clean the sponges in old tank water, you do not harm the beneficial bacteria this way. Easy to add Polyfil if you want to clean up or polishย the water. Easy to add or remove carbon if you feel the need to use it as well as coral or peat if you want toย play withย your water. If something does break like the impeller it is easy enough to replace. Same goes for the motor. Easy to remove and replace. I have a BioWheel 170 filter that works pretty good just not as many options as the AquaClear and I would not want to attempt to replace the motor on a BioWheel filter like the 170. I am not sure if you can. With all but the largest Aqua Clear you can double upย on the sponges. This allows you to remove one sponge and give it a good wringing out in a bucket of recently removed tank water. While leaving the other sponge in the tank. You can probably wring both of them out and put them back in at the same time but if you are nervous you can do one at a time. Doubling up on the sponges can also help if you start a brand new tank. Buy another filter, the same model, and drop one of the sponges from=2 0the filter of the running tank and you are set to go. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:16 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Aqua Clear Power filters(70) 300 & The FilStar XP 2 Canister Filter by Rena. I would like some performance comments here.ย  If you have one of these would you uy another?ย  Does one โ€�typeโ€� HOB or Canister have something over the other ype?ย  What is it?ย  Which is the most convenient to use? enny, get those typing fingers warmed up!ย  I know that you have both of these nd I would also like to ask (I forget) which one of these in powering your 5-gallon? ill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ----- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ยดยฏ`ยท.ยธยธ.><((((ยบ>.ยทยดยฏ`ยท.ยธยธ.ยทยดยฏ`ยท.ยธ><((((ยบ> ยธ.ยทยดยฏ`ยท.ยธ. , .ยทยดยฏ`ยท..><((((ยบ> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> ..e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ยบ((((><.ยทยดยฏ`ยท.ยธยธ.ยทยดยฏ`ยท.ยธ<ยบ((((><ยธ.ยทยดยฏ`ยท.ยธ. , .ยทยดยฏ`ยท..<ยบ((((><ยทยดยฏ`ยท.ยธยธ. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Gr oups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33778	From: bill1433	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Amber, � After my brief bout with �playing in the water� (changing water parameters�), I found that that crushed coral is better to buffer, if you can find it.� I did, at exactly where you were going.� At a good price too!� 15lb for $7.00 bucks, better than at the LPS! � Bill --- On Fri, 11/28/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:55 PM Is there any amount of dolomite lime you would recommend to start with for a 125 gallon tank? I have very soft water (barely reads on most test kits). And if I could find my test strips I'd tell you what it's at right now, LOL. I think last test GH was around 25, and Kh was over 0, but under 40 (the next color on the test strip). I need to find a better test for GH and KH, my master test kit doesn't test for it and I didn't think to look for one that did when I first got it. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in the > area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's Co-op). > You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it > and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because > you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you > need to maintain your desired hardness. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do want > to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best method > that is safest? > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my > reading is > > normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the > > fish/decorations/ etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, there's no > > way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill all > > of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my first PH > > test today. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH up > > > (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what I've > read > > > that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is > "used > > > up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as I > > > don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add some > later > > > to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do have > > > the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral in it, I > > > suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to add to my > > > filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get straight > > > crushed coral sand instead? > > > I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a stable > > > range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it doesn't > seem to > > > be fluctuating. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> > > <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well > aware > > > > of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was > that > > > > I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under under > > > > another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but then I > > > > have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my > upper > > > > substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet of > > > > the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some > > > > control over the suction and cut down on the chance of exposing the > > > > "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad > > > > bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. > > > > > > > > You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter > the pH > > > > of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in the > > > > tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > > > Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought > > it was > > > > safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is > having > > > > enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the > bottom of > > > > the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). > > > > I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't > > leach > > > > anything into the water and as far > > > > as I know it shouldn't affect the PH > > > > of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. > Yes I > > > > let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If > > this > > > > doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set > up the > > > > 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another > > > > gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very > > clear and > > > > there have been no fish casualties. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > > > > > > > > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but > for some > > > > > plants, > > > > > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some > > potting > > > > > soil > > > > > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants > > access to > > > > > more > > > > > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer > > > > (especially made > > > > > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves > providing > > > > > nutrients for the plants. > > > > > > > > > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." > > blog > > > > > but I > > > > > think you've already been to those pages before. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of=2 > > > > 0Lisa Lawless > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > > > > > > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > > > > > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some > > > > bogwood wuth > > > > > java fern attached. > > > > > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33779	From: bill1433	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: German blue rams

Basically, from what I read, they are considered good community fish.� But I do know that when Cichlids bred, anything is possible. I doubt that they would ever go on a killing spree but they will defend their nest or spawning site a bit.� But they are quite able to be kept with small fish like Neon Tetra�s and Corys without issue. � I plan on doing just that once I can find some and get a bigger tank. Will you please keep us advised as to how they are doing and how many you have, what size tank, etc?� They have become a favorite of mine but I have never kept any as yet.� Here�s a small bit of information I have about them:� http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/213017/i/1/product.web � Bill --- On Fri, 11/28/08, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] German blue rams To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:20 PM Are German Blue rams compatible with Dwarf gorami, danios and platys? And all I need is a simple yes or no thanks. LoL Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33780	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Needing advice..

Acei are large for a 55G but you could probably do 5 of each and a bristlenose pleco. The m:f ratio does not matter for acei and labs, but for the red zebras be sure you end up with 1m:4f. You won't be able to tell upon purchase, but in 9 months when they mature you will want to remove any extra males. For that reason, you might want to get more than 5 red zebras now. Zebras and labs hybridize, so don't save any fry. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Needing advice.. I'm getting a 55 gal aquarium for Christmas. I would love to have some Yellow Tail Acei, Yellow Labs, and Red Zebras, plus when the time comes for a Pleco.. one that grows no more than 5". Can anyone tell me how many I could have .. considering their size when adult? ----- Have a great day! Suzi http://www.photowor <http://www.photoworks.com/members/Suzi> ks.com/members/Suzi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33781	From: clntstime	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: question

does anyone know what these are. look at picture titled "what am i"

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33782	From: Suzi	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Needing advice..

Thank you :) ----- Have a great day! Suzi http://www.photoworks.com/members/Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 12:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Needing advice.. Acei are large for a 55G but you could probably do 5 of each and a bristlenose pleco. The m:f ratio does not matter for acei and labs, but for the red zebras be sure you end up with 1m:4f. You won't be able to tell upon purchase, but in 9 months when they mature you will want to remove any extra males. For that reason, you might want to get more than 5 red zebras now. Zebras and labs hybridize, so don't save any fry. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Needing advice.. I'm getting a 55 gal aquarium for Christmas. I would love to have some Yellow Tail Acei, Yellow Labs, and Red Zebras, plus when the time comes for a Pleco.. one that grows no more than 5". Can anyone tell me how many I could have .. considering their size when adult? ----- Have a great day! Suzi http://www.photowor <http://www.photoworks.com/members/Suzi> ks.com/members/Suzi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33783	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: question

I do believe it is a Peacock Gudgeon http://www.ahappypets.com/pet_info/Gobies_fish_species/Peacock_goby_tank.htm -Mike -----Original Message----- From: clntstime <clntstime@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 8:17 am Subject: [AquaticLife] question does anyone know what these are. look at picture titled "what am i" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33784	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Yeah I saw that Lenny, thanks :) I'm going to check my LFS first just to see if I can get it in town, and if not I'm going to order it off DFS. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > The next time you order from http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> or other online > source, API makes a combo-pack GH/KH kit. The last time I looked the > combo-pack was around $7.00 and this kit will perform a LOT of accurate > tests. These kits are far more cost effective than the dip sticks... > not to > mention so much more accurate and reliable. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 10:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > Is there any amount of dolomite lime you would recommend to start with > for a > 125 gallon tank? > > I have very soft water (barely reads on most test kits). And if I > could find > my test strips I'd tell you what it's at right now, LOL. I think last test > GH was around 25, and Kh was over 0, but under 40 (the next color on the > test strip). I need to find a better test for GH and KH, my master > test kit > doesn't test for it and I didn't think to look for one that did when I > first > got it. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in the > > area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's Co-op). > > You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it > > and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because > > you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you > > need to maintain your desired hardness. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > > > > And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do > > want to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best > > method that is safest? > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my > > reading is > > > normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the > > > fish/decorations/etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, there's > > > no way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not > > > kill all of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did > > > my first PH test today. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH > > > > up (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what > > > > I've > > read > > > > that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is > > "used > > > > up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as > > > > I don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add > > > > some > > later > > > > to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do > > > > have the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral > > > > in it, I suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's > > > > to add to my filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I > > > > get straight crushed coral sand instead? > > > > I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a > > > > stable range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it > > > > doesn't > > seem to > > > > be fluctuating. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well > > aware > > > > > of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was > > that > > > > > I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under > > > > > under another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, > > > > > but then I have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When > > > > > I siphon my > > upper > > > > > substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet > > > > > of the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have > > > > > some control over the suction and cut down on the chance of > > > > > exposing the "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a > > > > > pocket of bad bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. > > > > > > > > > > You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter > > the pH > > > > > of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in > > > > > the tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the > tank. > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought > > > it was > > > > > safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is > > having > > > > > enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the > > bottom of > > > > > the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). > > > > > I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it > > > > > shouldn't > > > leach > > > > > anything into the water and as far as I know it shouldn't affect > > > > > the PH of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been > > > > > checking it. > > Yes I > > > > > let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. > > > > > If > > > this > > > > > doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set > > up the > > > > > 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out > > > > > another gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is > > > > > very > > > clear and > > > > > there have been no fish casualties. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but > > for some > > > > > > plants, > > > > > > I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some > > > potting > > > > > > soil > > > > > > first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants > > > access to > > > > > > more > > > > > > nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer > > > > > (especially made > > > > > > for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves > > providing > > > > > > nutrients for the plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." > > > blog > > > > > > but I > > > > > > think you've already been to those pages before. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >>>>> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > > > > Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of=2 > > > > > 0Lisa Lawless > > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? > > > > > > After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some > > > > > bogwood wuth > > > > > > java fern attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 > Tested on: 11/28/2008 11:06:50 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081128-0, 11/28/2008 > Tested on: 11/29/2008 4:29:27 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33785	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

My LFS wants to sell me crushed coral for 45.89 for (I assume) a 20lb bag... Maybe I can find it at the local feed/hardware store. Amber bill1433 wrote: > Amber, > > After my brief bout with “playing in the water” (changing water > parameters”), I found that that crushed coral is better to buffer, if you can > find it. I did, at exactly where you were going. At a good price too! 15lb for > $7.00 bucks, better than at the LPS! > > Bill > --- On Fri, 11/28/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:55 PM > > > > > > > Is there any amount of dolomite lime you would recommend to start with > for a 125 gallon tank? > > I have very soft water (barely reads on most test kits). And if I could > find my test strips I'd tell you what it's at right now, LOL. I think > last test GH was around 25, and Kh was over 0, but under 40 (the next > color on the test strip). I need to find a better test for GH and KH, my > master test kit doesn't test for it and I didn't think to look for one > that did when I first got it. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > >> You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in the >> area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's Co-op). >> You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it >> and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because >> you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you >> need to maintain your desired hardness. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank >> >> And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do want >> to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best method >> that is safest? >> >> Amber >> >> Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my >>> >> reading is >> >>> normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the >>> fish/decorations/ etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, there's no >>> way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill all >>> of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my first PH >>> test today. >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Amber Berglund wrote: >>> >>>> I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH up >>>> (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what I've >>>> >> read >> >>>> that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is >>>> >> "used >> >>>> up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as I >>>> don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add some >>>> >> later >> >>>> to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do have >>>> the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral in it, I >>>> suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to add to my >>>> filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get straight >>>> crushed coral sand instead? >>>> I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a stable >>>> range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it doesn't >>>> >> seem to >> >>>> be fluctuating. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> >>>> >>> <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> Amber, >>>>> >>>>> You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well >>>>> >> aware >> >>>>> of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was >>>>> >> that >> >>>>> I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under under >>>>> another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but then I >>>>> have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my >>>>> >> upper >> >>>>> substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet of >>>>> the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some >>>>> control over the suction and cut down on the chance of exposing the >>>>> "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad >>>>> bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. >>>>> >>>>> You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter >>>>> >> the pH >> >>>>> of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in the >>>>> tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. >>>>> >>>>> -Mike >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com >>>>> >> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >> >>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >>> >>>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> >>>>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>> >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>>> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank >>>>> >>>>> Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought >>>>> >>> it was >>> >>>>> safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is >>>>> >> having >> >>>>> enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the >>>>> >> bottom of >> >>>>> the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). >>>>> I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't >>>>> >>> leach >>> >>>>> anything into the water and as far >>>>> as I know it shouldn't affect the PH >>>>> of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. >>>>> >> Yes I >> >>>>> let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If >>>>> >>> this >>> >>>>> doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set >>>>> >> up the >> >>>>> 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another >>>>> gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very >>>>> >>> clear and >>> >>>>> there have been no fish casualties. >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but >>>>>> >> for some >> >>>>>> plants, >>>>>> I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some >>>>>> >>> potting >>> >>>>>> soil >>>>>> first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants >>>>>> >>> access to >>> >>>>>> more >>>>>> nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer >>>>>> >>>>> (especially made >>>>> >>>>>> for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves >>>>>> >> providing >> >>>>>> nutrients for the plants. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." >>>>>> >>> blog >>> >>>>>> but I >>>>>> think you've already been to those pages before. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com >>>>>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> >>> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> >> >>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>>>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> >> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> >> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> >> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> >> >>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>>>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> >> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>>> >> >>>>>> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side >>>>>> >> under >> >>>>>> Archives >>>>>> - Year, Month and under Labels) >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>> >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>> >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On >>>>>> Behalf Of=2 >>>>>> >>>>> 0Lisa Lawless >>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM >>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>> >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank >>>>>> >>>>>> Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? >>>>>> After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some >>>>>> >>>>> bogwood wuth >>>>> >>>>>> java fern attached. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lisa >>>>>> >>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33786	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Angelfish fry didn't free-swim yet

Hi, So this is the second time my Angels succeed to 'hatch' eggs. I transfered the fry 24 hours after hatching to a cycled new tank (20 liters), filled entirely with water from the spawning tank. The fry are 5.5 days old now (since hatching), and they are not free swimming yet, not even a single one of them. They tripled in size compared to when they first hatched (some are 5 times larger than that). I didn't add any food or infusoria yet, and the sides of the tank are full of tiny white bugs crowling there and swimming. The water parameters taken last night: Nitrite 0 Nitrate 50 GH 10 KH 10 pH 7.6 (The pH of the spawning tank was 8, but I used water from it entirely) I observed the fry, there is a short mucous thread coming out of their heads and sticking to any nearby rock, the fry are constantly trying to free themself but the thread won't fall. Any suggested explainations for this? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33787	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

LOL! 210 isn't my area code. Probably Dallas or Houston - can't get fish to me faster than Nwe York could. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Whoops, I overlooked http://www.davesfish.com/?which is in Texas and if I recall you haunt, er live in Texas and this may be closer if you want to get some dwarf Cichlids. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 3:48 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Yes, Many?very small Cichlids are available. The very fish they were showing are available. I used to have a colony of them myself. Great little fish. http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=65 http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/shelldwellers.php http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=61 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/n_brevis.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ultimate_shellie_tank.php http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/shellweb/ http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/shell-dwellers.html http://www.duboisi.com/forum/profiles_multifasciatus.php There are a lot of Apistogramma species that are often considered more colorful than most of the Tanganyikan dwarf Cichlids. http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/? has lists of Apistos David Soares in Oregon breeds some gorgeous Apistos. He also sells on Aquabid. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Apistodave http://apistogrammaidiots.com/Fishroom_1/fishroom_1.html http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/index.php -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 1:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> S ent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish.Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fish that you might be interested in. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33788	From: bill1433	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

No! No! Amber NOT the LFS!� The local feed and grain store like Steve suggested. That's where I got mine at the price I gave you. I'm sorry if I confused you. � Bill --- On Sat, 11/29/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 5:42 PM My LFS wants to sell me crushed coral for 45.89 for (I assume) a 20lb bag... Maybe I can find it at the local feed/hardware store. Amber bill1433 wrote: > Amber, > > After my brief bout with �playing in the water� (changing water > parameters�), I found that that crushed coral is better to buffer, if you can > find it. I did, at exactly where you were going. At a good price too! 15lb for > $7.00 bucks, better than at the LPS! > > Bill > --- On Fri, 11/28/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:55 PM > > > > > > > Is there any amount of dolomite lime you would recommend to start with > for a 125 gallon tank? > > I have very soft water (barely reads on most test kits). And if I could > find my test strips I'd tell you what it's at right now, LOL. I think > last test GH was around 25, and Kh was over 0, but under 40 (the next > color on the test strip). I need to find a better test for GH and KH, my > master test kit doesn't test for it and I didn't think to look for one > that did when I first got it. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > >> You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in the >> area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's Co-op). >> You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it >> and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because >> you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you >> need to maintain your desired hardness. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank >> >> And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do want >> to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best method >> that is safest? >> >> Amber >> >> Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my >>> >> reading is >> >>> normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the >>> fish/decorations/ etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, there's no >>> way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill all >>> of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my first PH >>> test today. >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Amber Berglund wrote: >>> >>>> I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did bring the PH up >>>> (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what I've >>>> >> read >> >>>> that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it is >>>> >> "used >> >>>> up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite lime, etc) yet as I >>>> don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd rather add some >>>> >> later >> >>>> to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I do have >>>> the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral in it, I >>>> suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to add to my >>>> filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get straight >>>> crushed coral sand instead? >>>> I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH stays at a stable >>>> range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it doesn't >>>> >> seem to >> >>>> be fluctuating. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> >>>> >>> <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> Amber, >>>>> >>>>> You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are well >>>>> >> aware >> >>>>> of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little post was >>>>> >> that >> >>>>> I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil under under >>>>> another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, but then I >>>>> have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I siphon my >>>>> >> upper >> >>>>> substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the outlet of >>>>> the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to have some >>>>> control over the suction and cut down on the chance of exposing the >>>>> "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that someday a pocket of bad >>>>> bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. >>>>> >>>>> You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an "Organic" soil can alter >>>>> >> the pH >> >>>>> of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish back in the >>>>> tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to the tank. >>>>> >>>>> -Mike >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com >>>>> >> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >> >>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >>> >>>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> >>>>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>> >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>>> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank >>>>> >>>>> Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have thought >>>>> >>> it was >>> >>>>> safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to it is >>>>> >> having >> >>>>> enough plants so that you don't actually have to vacuum the >>>>> >> bottom of >> >>>>> the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). >>>>> I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that it shouldn't >>>>> >>> leach >>> >>>>> anything into the water and as far >>>>> as I know it shouldn't affect the PH >>>>> of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been checking it. >>>>> >> Yes I >> >>>>> let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the tank. If >>>>> >>> this >>> >>>>> doesn't work I will just break the tank back down later and set >>>>> >> up the >> >>>>> 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure out another >>>>> gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is very >>>>> >>> clear and >>> >>>>> there have been no fish casualties. >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not have any kind of special substrate in my tanks but >>>>>> >> for some >> >>>>>> plants, >>>>>> I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did add some >>>>>> >>> potting >>> >>>>>> soil >>>>>> first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the plants >>>>>> >>> access to >>> >>>>>> more >>>>>> nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type fertilizer >>>>>> >>>>> (especially made >>>>> >>>>>> for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly dissolves >>>>>> >> providing >> >>>>>> nutrients for the plants. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my "Planted Tank.." >>>>>> >>> blog >>> >>>>>> but I >>>>>> think you've already been to those pages before. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com >>>>>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> >>> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> >> >>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>>>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> >> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> >> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> >> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> >> >>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>>>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> >> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>> >> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>>> >> >>>>>> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side >>>>>> >> under >> >>>>>> Archives >>>>>> - Year, Month and under Labels) >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>> >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>> >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On >>>>>> Behalf Of=2 >>>>>> >>>>> 0Lisa Lawless >>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM >>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>> >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank >>>>>> >>>>>> Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? >>>>>> After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to get some >>>>>> >>>>> bogwood wuth >>>>> >>>>>> java fern attached. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lisa >>>>>> >>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33789	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@... Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33790	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babies. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33791	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

I also have some of the non-parasitic ones Synodontis Lucipinnis. Similar leopard spots, but smaller when full grown. I really wasn’t that “into” the Synos when stocking my tank, but they are my son’s favorites and have become one of mine too. Would not have a tank without them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babies. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33792	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Thanks bill, I will check to see if they can get it here. I have to go down tomorrow to get bird food anyways. I forgot to look for a good GH/KH test while I was at the fish store, got busy looking at plants and got a couple of onion plants ;) They don't have any ground cover plants here, not sure if they ever will besides the "grass" kind of plants. She also gave me a couple starts of "water lettuce" for free too, from looking at plants lately I think it's wisteria, small pieces just starting to grow roots. I ended up getting a couple of long finned blue rams (she said that she thinks they're bolivian, but I'm not really sure which ones they are) while I was out there too (since they are going fast). So far the other fish are ignoring them, I think it's because they look at lot like my juvenile flame tetras ;) The angel fish were the ones to "greet" them first though, they are the most curious fish I've ever had, LOL. My severum looks at the other fish but he just gets really close to look at them instead of nipping them too like the angel's sometimes do. Amber bill1433 wrote: > No! No! Amber NOT the LFS! The local feed and grain store like Steve suggested. > That's where I got mine at the price I gave you. > I'm sorry if I confused you. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 11/29/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 5:42 PM > > My LFS wants to sell me crushed coral for 45.89 for (I assume) a 20lb > bag... Maybe I can find it at the local feed/hardware store. > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > >> Amber, >> >> After my brief bout with “playing in the water” (changing water >> parameters”), I found that that crushed coral is better to buffer, if >> > you can > >> find it. I did, at exactly where you were going. At a good price too! >> > 15lb for > >> $7.00 bucks, better than at the LPS! >> >> Bill >> --- On Fri, 11/28/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: >> >> From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:55 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Is there any amount of dolomite lime you would recommend to start with >> for a 125 gallon tank? >> >> I have very soft water (barely reads on most test kits). And if I could >> find my test strips I'd tell you what it's at right now, LOL. I >> > think > >> last test GH was around 25, and Kh was over 0, but under 40 (the next >> color on the test strip). I need to find a better test for GH and KH, my >> master test kit doesn't test for it and I didn't think to look for >> > one > >> that did when I first got it. >> >> Amber >> >> Steve Szabo wrote: >> >> >>> You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in >>> > the > >>> area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's >>> > Co-op). > >>> You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it >>> and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because >>> > > >>> you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you >>> need to maintain your desired hardness. >>> >>> \\Steve// >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber >>> > Berglund > >>> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM >>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife >>> > %40yahoogroups. com> > >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank >>> >>> And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do >>> > want > >>> to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best >>> > method > >>> that is safest? >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Amber Berglund wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my >>>> >>>> >>> reading is >>> >>> >>>> normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the >>>> fish/decorations/ etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, >>>> > there's no > >>>> way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill >>>> > all > >>>> of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my >>>> > first PH > >>>> test today. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> Amber Berglund wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did >>>>> > bring the PH up > >>>>> (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what >>>>> > I've > >>>>> >>>>> >>> read >>> >>> >>>>> that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it >>>>> > is > >>>>> >>>>> >>> "used >>> >>> >>>>> up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite >>>>> > lime, etc) yet as I > >>>>> don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd >>>>> > rather add some > >>>>> >>>>> >>> later >>> >>> >>>>> to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I >>>>> > do have > >>>>> the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral >>>>> > in it, I > >>>>> suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to >>>>> > add to my > >>>>> filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get >>>>> > straight > >>>>> crushed coral sand instead? >>>>> I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH >>>>> > stays at a stable > >>>>> range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it >>>>> > doesn't > >>>>> >>>>> >>> seem to >>> >>> >>>>> be fluctuating. >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> >>>>> > <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Amber, >>>>>> >>>>>> You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are >>>>>> > well > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> aware >>> >>> >>>>>> of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little >>>>>> > post was > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> that >>> >>> >>>>>> I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil >>>>>> > under under > >>>>>> another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, >>>>>> > but then I > >>>>>> have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I >>>>>> > siphon my > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> upper >>> >>> >>>>>> substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the >>>>>> > outlet of > >>>>>> the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to >>>>>> > have some > >>>>>> control over the suction and cut down on the chance of >>>>>> > exposing the > >>>>>> "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that >>>>>> > someday a pocket of bad > >>>>>> bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. >>>>>> >>>>>> You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an >>>>>> > "Organic" soil can alter > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> the pH >>> >>> >>>>>> of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish >>>>>> > back in the > >>>>>> tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to >>>>>> > the tank. > >>>>>> -Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >>> >>> >>>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> >>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a >>>>>> > planted tank > >>>>>> Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have >>>>>> > thought > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> it was >>>> >>>> >>>>>> safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to >>>>>> > it is > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> having >>> >>> >>>>>> enough plants so that you don't actually have to >>>>>> > vacuum the > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> bottom of >>> >>> >>>>>> the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). >>>>>> I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that >>>>>> > it shouldn't > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> leach >>>> >>>> >>>>>> anything into the water and as far >>>>>> as I know it shouldn't affect the PH >>>>>> of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been >>>>>> > checking it. > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> Yes I >>> >>> >>>>>> let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the >>>>>> > tank. If > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> this >>>> >>>> >>>>>> doesn't work I will just break the tank back down >>>>>> > later and set > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> up the >>> >>> >>>>>> 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure >>>>>> > out another > >>>>>> gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is >>>>>> > very > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> clear and >>>> >>>> >>>>>> there have been no fish casualties. >>>>>> >>>>>> Amber >>>>>> >>>>>> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not have any kind of special substrate in my >>>>>>> > tanks but > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> for some >>> >>> >>>>>>> plants, >>>>>>> I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did >>>>>>> > add some > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> potting >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> soil >>>>>>> first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the >>>>>>> > plants > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> access to >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type >>>>>>> > fertilizer > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> (especially made >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly >>>>>>> > dissolves > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> providing >>> >>> >>>>>>> nutrients for the plants. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my >>>>>>> > "Planted Tank.." > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> blog >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> but I >>>>>>> think you've already been to those pages before. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>> >>> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>> > blogspot. com>> > >>>> >>>> >>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>>> >>>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>>> > >>> >>> >>>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>> > >>> >>> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>> >>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>>>> > >>> >>> >>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>>> >>>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>> > >>> >>> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>> >>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>>> > >>> >>> >>>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>> > >>> >>> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>> >>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>>>>> > >>> >>> >>>>>>> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the >>>>>>> > right side > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> under >>> >>> >>>>>>> Archives >>>>>>> - Year, Month and under Labels) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On >>>>>>> Behalf Of=2 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> 0Lisa Lawless >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a >>>>>>> > planted tank > >>>>>>> Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? >>>>>>> After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to >>>>>>> > get some > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> bogwood wuth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> java fern attached. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lisa >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. >> >> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >> > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33793	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

People actually want catfish whose only goal in life is to vampirize baby cichlids? Why? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babies. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33794	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

To keep the cichlids from becoming overpopulated. Some cichlids breed like guppies. It's the truest form of creating a "natural" environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? People actually want catfish whose only goal in life is to vampirize baby cichlids? Why? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babies. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com <http://fish.Mongabay.com> > > Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/29/2008 7:52:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/29/2008 9:01:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33795	From: johndumas	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: How do you determine Heater wattage?

Is there a easy trick to determine heater wattage? I have several heaters with no markings.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: How do you determine Heater wattage?

If there is no brand or anything, then I guess if you had an electrical multi-tester, you could see the maximum amps it's drawing when on. If I remember correctly, it's wattage divided by voltage equals amperage. So working backwards, and now knowing the amperage and the voltage (110?), this would be the formula... Volts x Amps = Watts. There are other variables but this should give you a close enough figure to know if it would be considered a 25W or a 50W, etc. If you don't have your own, ask around.. one of your handyman/mam neighbors will have one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johndumas Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 8:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How do you determine Heater wattage? Is there a easy trick to determine heater wattage? I have several heaters with no markings. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/29/2008 9:19:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33797	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

They are beautiful catfish for one. Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care cichlids have for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish interfere with this behavior to have their own young survive. I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had any fry. They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the tank from their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. Whenever I see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and watch for the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot saucer in the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their chosen place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? People actually want catfish whose only goal in life is to vampirize baby cichlids? Why? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babie s. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 A I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to th e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33798	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Just another form of predation. You wouldn’t keep any fish that was a carnivore? It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It’s not something they need to do to live just to reproduce. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? They are beautiful catfish for one. Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care cichlids have for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish interfere with this behavior to have their own young survive. I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had any fry. They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the tank from their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. Whenever I see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and watch for the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot saucer in the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their chosen place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? People actually want catfish whose only goal in life is to vampirize baby cichlids? Why? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babie s. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 A I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to th e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33799	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Question about making a planted tank

Amber, Two things. It sounds like you ar3 not quarantining your new fish. This is something that you really should do, so you do not introduce anything, disease or parasites, into you remain tank. If the fish do have them, when they are quarantined, you only have to treat the quarantined fish, in a smaller volume of water. The quarantine period should be a minimum of two weeks, three is better. If the fish do come down with something horrible, then you treat and when they are cured, the quarantine period starts all over again. If you have your heart set on coral sand, a good substitute would be oyster shell, which may be more available at the feed & grain store. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank Thanks bill, I will check to see if they can get it here. I have to go down tomorrow to get bird food anyways. I forgot to look for a good GH/KH test while I was at the fish store, got busy looking at plants and got a couple of onion plants ;) They don't have any ground cover plants here, not sure if they ever will besides the "grass" kind of plants. She also gave me a couple starts of "water lettuce" for free too, from looking at plants lately I think it's wisteria, small pieces just starting to grow roots. I ended up getting a couple of long finned blue rams (she said that she thinks they're bolivian, but I'm not really sure which ones they are) while I was out there too (since they are going fast). So far the other fish are ignoring them, I think it's because they look at lot like my juvenile flame tetras ;) The angel fish were the ones to "greet" them first though, they are the most curious fish I've ever had, LOL. My severum looks at the other fish but he just gets really close to look at them instead of nipping them too like the angel's sometimes do. Amber bill1433 wrote: > No! No! Amber NOT the LFS! The local feed and grain store like Steve suggested. > That's where I got mine at the price I gave you. > I'm sorry if I confused you. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 11/29/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 5:42 PM > > My LFS wants to sell me crushed coral for 45.89 for (I assume) a 20lb > bag... Maybe I can find it at the local feed/hardware store. > > Amber > > bill1433 wrote: > >> Amber, >> >> After my brief bout with "playing in the water" (changing water >> parameters"), I found that that crushed coral is better to buffer, if >> > you can > >> find it. I did, at exactly where you were going. At a good price too! >> > 15lb for > >> $7.00 bucks, better than at the LPS! >> >> Bill >> --- On Fri, 11/28/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: >> >> From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:55 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Is there any amount of dolomite lime you would recommend to start with >> for a 125 gallon tank? >> >> I have very soft water (barely reads on most test kits). And if I could >> find my test strips I'd tell you what it's at right now, LOL. I >> > think > >> last test GH was around 25, and Kh was over 0, but under 40 (the next >> color on the test strip). I need to find a better test for GH and KH, my >> master test kit doesn't test for it and I didn't think to look for >> > one > >> that did when I first got it. >> >> Amber >> >> Steve Szabo wrote: >> >> >>> You can get some dolomite from your local feed & grain store (in >>> > the > >>> area where I misspent my youth, it was known as the Farmer's >>> > Co-op). > >>> You can simply make this part of your gravel bed, or you can bag it >>> and place it in your filter. The latter is the best way to go, because >>> > > >>> you will have more control over the amount that you will discover you >>> need to maintain your desired hardness. >>> >>> \\Steve// >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber >>> > Berglund > >>> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 PM >>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife >>> > %40yahoogroups. com> > >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a planted tank >>> >>> And I forgot to clarify that the soil never raised my PH, but I do >>> > want > >>> to add something to my filter to add buffering, what is the best >>> > method > >>> that is safest? >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Amber Berglund wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Okay I must have messed up my first PH test somehow, today my >>>> >>>> >>> reading is >>> >>> >>>> normal where it was before in my 55 gallon before I moved all the >>>> fish/decorations/ etc over. So my PH actually hasn't changed, >>>> > there's no > >>>> way my PH would fluctuate from 7.5 to 6.1 in 12 hours and not kill >>>> > all > >>>> of my fish ;) Must have been tired this morning when I did my >>>> > first PH > >>>> test today. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> Amber Berglund wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I've already added the fish to the tank, the soil did >>>>> > bring the PH up > >>>>> (the soil had a set PH at neutral 7ish) but according to what >>>>> > I've > >>>>> >>>>> >>> read >>> >>> >>>>> that will go away once the organic compound that is causing it >>>>> > is > >>>>> >>>>> >>> "used >>> >>> >>>>> up", I didn't add a buffering capacity (dolomite >>>>> > lime, etc) yet as I > >>>>> don't have any to add just yet, I was thinking I'd >>>>> > rather add some > >>>>> >>>>> >>> later >>> >>> >>>>> to my filter rather than putting it straight into the tank. I >>>>> > do have > >>>>> the live sand that came with the tank that has crushed coral >>>>> > in it, I > >>>>> suppose I could boil some of that and put it in nylon's to >>>>> > add to my > >>>>> filter, would it do the trick well enough or should I get >>>>> > straight > >>>>> crushed coral sand instead? >>>>> I've been doing PWC's every day to make sure the PH >>>>> > stays at a stable > >>>>> range (in case the soil brings it up somehow), so far it >>>>> > doesn't > >>>>> >>>>> >>> seem to >>> >>> >>>>> be fluctuating. >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> Deenerz@aol. com <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> >>>>> > <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> <mailto:Deenerz% 40aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Amber, >>>>>> >>>>>> You can do it. You have done it and it sounds like you are >>>>>> > well > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> aware >>> >>> >>>>>> of the potential problems. Part of why I made my little >>>>>> > post was > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> that >>> >>> >>>>>> I forgot you are on an island in Alaska. I did the soil >>>>>> > under under > >>>>>> another substrate the one time and would not repeat it, >>>>>> > but then I > >>>>>> have very easy access to other cheaper methods. When I >>>>>> > siphon my > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> upper >>> >>> >>>>>> substrate I just do it very gently with my thumb over the >>>>>> > outlet of > >>>>>> the hose to control the water flow. This enables me to >>>>>> > have some > >>>>>> control over the suction and cut down on the chance of >>>>>> > exposing the > >>>>>> "dirt" underneath. I do however fear that >>>>>> > someday a pocket of bad > >>>>>> bacteria may come up from below and kill the fish. >>>>>> >>>>>> You mentioned "Organic" soil, even an >>>>>> > "Organic" soil can alter > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> the pH >>> >>> >>>>>> of your tank. I would keep checking before putting fish >>>>>> > back in the > >>>>>> tank and keep it monitored after they are reintroduced to >>>>>> > the tank. > >>>>>> -Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >>> >>> >>>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> >>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:59 pm >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a >>>>>> > planted tank > >>>>>> Obviously this is a very controversial topic, would have >>>>>> > thought > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> it was >>>> >>>> >>>>>> safe with the stuff I had read about it. The key part to >>>>>> > it is > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> having >>> >>> >>>>>> enough plants so that you don't actually have to >>>>>> > vacuum the > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> bottom of >>> >>> >>>>>> the tank (such as ground cover plants like clover). >>>>>> I used black gold potting soil (it's organic) so that >>>>>> > it shouldn't > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> leach >>>> >>>> >>>>>> anything into the water and as far >>>>>> as I know it shouldn't affect the PH >>>>>> of the tank, but to be on the safe side I have been >>>>>> > checking it. > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> Yes I >>> >>> >>>>>> let my soil sit before I put anything on top of it in the >>>>>> > tank. If > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> this >>>> >>>> >>>>>> doesn't work I will just break the tank back down >>>>>> > later and set > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> up the >>> >>> >>>>>> 55 gallon properly with plant substrate and then figure >>>>>> > out another > >>>>>> gravel idea for the 125 gallon tank. So far the water is >>>>>> > very > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> clear and >>>> >>>> >>>>>> there have been no fish casualties. >>>>>> >>>>>> Amber >>>>>> >>>>>> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, especially the easy-to-grow plants. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not have any kind of special substrate in my >>>>>>> > tanks but > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> for some >>> >>> >>>>>>> plants, >>>>>>> I do have them planted in small clay pots where I did >>>>>>> > add some > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> potting >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> soil >>>>>>> first, covered by an inch or so of gravel to give the >>>>>>> > plants > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> access to >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> nutrients. Other people will add a tablet type >>>>>>> > fertilizer > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> (especially made >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> for aquariums) under the plant so that it slowly >>>>>>> > dissolves > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> providing >>> >>> >>>>>>> nutrients for the plants. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have links to Easy and Very Easy plants on my >>>>>>> > "Planted Tank.." > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> blog >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> but I >>>>>>> think you've already been to those pages before. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >>> >>> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>> > blogspot. com>> > >>>> >>>> >>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>>> >>>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>>> > >>> >>> >>>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>> > >>> >>> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>> >>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>>>> > >>> >>> >>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>>> >>>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>> > >>> >>> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>> >>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>>> > >>> >>> >>>>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>> > >>> >>> >>>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. >>>> > blogspot. com> > >>>> >>>> >>> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. >>> > com>>>>> > >>> >>> >>>>>>> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the >>>>>>> > right side > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> under >>> >>> >>>>>>> Archives >>>>>>> - Year, Month and under Labels) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On >>>>>>> Behalf Of=2 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> 0Lisa Lawless >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:17 AM >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>> >>> >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>> >>>> >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about making a >>>>>>> > planted tank > >>>>>>> Can plants survive in regular decorative gravel? >>>>>>> After i eventually get myself a light, i am going to >>>>>>> > get some > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> bogwood wuth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> java fern attached. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lisa >>>>>>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33800	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Hi Donna, It was not intended to be "Gruesome" as you put it. No, the parents do not need to the cichlids to survive. However their intended catfish Offspring do need the host cichlid to survive. To date I have not heard of them succesfully raising fry without a host cichlid. If there is a means please share it with me as I would like some catfish babies :) I do not think I wrote my comments to lead someone to think the parents need cichlids to survive, only their offspring. As far as keeping just any fish that was a carnivore? I keep the fish that interest me. Living in California I am not "Allowed" by the Nannys at fish and game to have Pirhana. If I could I might have a tank of them, but not to feed live critters to, but because the fish interest me. These fish are indeed carnivores but an Oscar could also be considered a carnivore and I think they are great fish, had them and want them again. -Mike Just another form of predation. You wouldn’t keep any fish that was a carnivore? It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It’s not something they need to do to live…just to reproduce. -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 7:56 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Just another form of predation. You wouldn’t ke ep any fish that was a carnivore? It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It’s not something they need to do to live…just to reproduce. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? They are beautiful catfish for one. Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care cichlids have for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish interfere with this behavior to have their own young survive. I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had any fry. They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the tank from their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. Whenever I see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and watch for the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot saucer in the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their chosen place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? People actually want catfish whose only goal in life is to vampirize baby cichlids? Why? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babie s. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfis h, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 A I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mai lto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original mess age MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to th e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33801	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: How do you determine Heater wattage?

I don't know how true this is anymore, but the higher the wattage, the longer the tube was for an aquarium heater. 50 watts was 8", 100 watts a bit longer, 150 watts longer still, and 200 watts were about 12 inches or so. I think the 25 watt heaters were about 6" long. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How do you determine Heater wattage? If there is no brand or anything, then I guess if you had an electrical multi-tester, you could see the maximum amps it's drawing when on. If I remember correctly, it's wattage divided by voltage equals amperage. So working backwards, and now knowing the amperage and the voltage (110?), this would be the formula... Volts x Amps = Watts. There are other variables but this should give you a close enough figure to know if it would be considered a 25W or a 50W, etc. If you don't have your own, ask around.. one of your handyman/mam neighbors will have one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johndumas Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 8:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How do you determine Heater wattage? Is there a easy trick to determine heater wattage? I have several heaters with no markings.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33802	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Dora, It is not vampirism. You really need to do some reading about that. Vampires live by blood alone. The multipunctatus lay their eggs among the cichlids eggs which are then collected for mouth brooding. As I recall the eggs develop faster and the young hatch slightly ahead of the cichlid eggs. They will then start eating the newly hatched cichlids. This is something like the cuckoo bird, or mockingbird, or one of a few other species of bird that lay eggs in another species nest, then the young of opportunist bird out compete the young of the foster parents for food and nest space. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? People actually want catfish whose only goal in life is to vampirize baby cichlids? Why? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babies. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33803	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Thank you to Lenny and Dora for your replies. I read them yesterday, but haven't had a chance to respond or to fully explore all the links, yet, because my son and d-i-luv were here for the weekend. I posted pictures of the two affected goldfish on the group photo page and they are awaiting approval by group moderators. When they're approved you can see them here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/699297662/pic/list The picture of the black one is a bit fuzzy, but you can see the pattern where the light shows up the affected areas on his side. I'm going to try and reply to both posts here and I hope I don't miss anything important. As far as the fishes' history, they were previously kept in a 10 gallon aquarium. They are now in a 30 gallon one, which I understand will not be big enough when they're grown, but it beats what they had and they're each less than 2 inches from nose to tail base right now. They have an AquaClear filter with the carbon filter temporarily removed for medication. It was only run intermittantly during the year that the aquarium was empty. It has run full time since the goldfish arrived. I'm feeding TetraFin Goldfish food twice a day. I don't know what food they were getting before. I initially corrected the nitrite and ammonia levels with AmQuel+plus. I've also been doing PWCs since Wednesday and will retest after the PWC tomorrow for pH, nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia. The white cottony areas that I'm seeing on two of the fish began on the bodies near the base of the tail. From the websites that I've looked at, I think it's fungus, but it doesn't look exactly like any of the picutes I've seen and I'll be the first to admit that I'm no fish expert. When they arrived, one had a really frayed tail and a second somewhat frayed, but it looked more like dominance related pruning. I didn't see any of the white on the tails or fins. The weakest one's tail has since gotten much shorter, though and there may be something on the edges, although it's not like the white on it's sides. Bacteria? I don't know. The healthy one has no white spots at all anywhere and it's tail is just gorgeously magnificent and flawless. I've raised the water temperature to 70-72 deg using a heating pad against one end of the aquarium until I can get an actual aquarium heater. I've been doing 25 to 30% water changes daily followed by malachite green for the last 4 days. There may be a slight improvement, but the treatments are very stressful on the weakest one. I'm considering removing the gravel until I get this problem under control. Would this be a good idea or no? I read the article on salt ( http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml ) and am more confused than ever. I'm hoping the packaging will be more clear when I buy it. So in conclusion, I'll be making a trip to the pet store tomorrow. So far I have salt, a heater, and antibiotic on my list. do I need to get anything else? DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33804	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/29/2008
Subject: Angelfish fry didn't free-swim yet

I forgot to mention that the temperature is 77 F, the tank is well lighted near a window (no direct sunlight) and there is a DIY airstone-driven filter running in there with polyster from an established tank's filter. Just a few more clues to help find out what's the problem. Some of the fry this morning look detached from their mucous thread, but still struggling to swim, they're on their side hovering on the glass plate that I've put (with a few small gravels) to be able to watch them and not lose them in the 1" gravel layers. Noura -----Original Message----- Hi, So this is the second time my Angels succeed to 'hatch' eggs. I transfered the fry 24 hours after hatching to a cycled new tank (20 liters), filled entirely with water from the spawning tank. The fry are 5.5 days old now (since hatching), and they are not free swimming yet, not even a single one of them. They tripled in size compared to when they first hatched (some are 5 times larger than that). I didn't add any food or infusoria yet, and the sides of the tank are full of tiny white bugs crowling there and swimming. The water parameters taken last night: Nitrite 0 Nitrate 50 GH 10 KH 10 pH 7.6 (The pH of the spawning tank was 8, but I used water from it entirely) I observed the fry, there is a short mucous thread coming out of their heads and sticking to any nearby rock, the fry are constantly trying to free themself but the thread won't fall. Any suggested explainations for this? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33805	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Mike, I was replying to Dora’s “vampire” reaction to the Syno’s. I keep them too. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Hi Donna, It was not intended to be "Gruesome" as you put it. No, the parents do not need to the cichlids to survive. However their intended catfish Offspring do need the host cichlid to survive. To date I have not heard of them succesfully raising fry without a host cichlid. If there is a means please share it with me as I would like some catfish babies :) I do not think I wrote my comments to lead someone to think the parents need cichlids to survive, only their offspring. As far as keeping just any fish that was a carnivore? I keep the fish that interest me. Living in California I am not "Allowed" by the Nannys at fish and game to have Pirhana. If I could I might have a tank of them, but not to feed live critters to, but because the fish interest me. These fish are indeed carnivores but an Oscar could also be considered a carnivore and I think they are great fish, had them and want them again. -Mike Just another form of predation. You wouldn’t keep any fish that was a carnivore? It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It’s not something they need to do to live just to reproduce. -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 7:56 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Just another form of predation. You wouldn’t ke ep any fish that was a carnivore? It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It’s not something they need to do to live just to reproduce. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? They are beautiful catfish for one. Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care cichlids have for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish interfere with this behavior to have their own young survive. I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had any fry. They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the tank from their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. Whenever I see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and watch for the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot saucer in the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their chosen place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? People actually want catfish whose only goal in life is to vampirize baby cichlids? Why? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babie s. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfis h, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 A I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mai lto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original mess age MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to th e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33806	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Black Moor wont grow!

I have 5 fancy goldfish, all of which are growing very fast...exept for one. My Black Moor is still about the same size he was when I bought him, and the others have tripled (or more) in size! Is this normal, are Black Moors smaller than other fancies? Why would the other 4 be growing at the exact same pace (they were all bought at the same time, and were about the same size too) exept for this little guy? thanks, Dr.C

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33807	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: heater woes

I have a submersible heater with a knob on top. I find it very hard to adjust, partly because the knob tends to become unthreaded and the adjustments don't "take." Any recommendations for a reputable brand? Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33808	From: bill1433	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank

Hi,   I would like to hear from anyone owning one of these tanks/ I have a very small aquarium space available and would like some size tank that would accommodate my space limitations.   Not having seen this type of tank in person as yet, one point about it does disturb me.  Will a bow front tank distort the actual size of the fish inside of it?   Comments from anyone using the tank would be welcome.  Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33809	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank

In a message dated 11/30/2008 12:51:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, warrenprint@... writes: Hi, I would like to hear from anyone owning one of these tanks/ I have a very small aquarium space available and would like some size tank that would accommodate my space limitations. Not having seen this type of tank in person as yet, one point about it does disturb me. Will a bow front tank distort the actual size of the fish inside of it? Comments from anyone using the tank would be welcome. Bill Have you considered the tall tanks instead of the typical wide ones? You can get all types. Do a search on fish tanks to see what is out there. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33810	From: bill1433	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank

Yes Thanks Jon,   I have considered those tall type tanks but, as I'm sure you know, its the tanks surface area that allows for how many fish you can keep.  Tall narrow tanks do not afford much surface area.   Bill --- On Sun, 11/30/08, johchance1@... <johchance1@...> wrote: From: johchance1@... <johchance1@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 12:54 PM In a message dated 11/30/2008 12:51:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com writes: Hi, I would like to hear from anyone owning one of these tanks/ I have a very small aquarium space available and would like some size tank that would accommodate my space limitations. Not having seen this type of tank in person as yet, one point about it does disturb me. Will a bow front tank distort the actual size of the fish inside of it? Comments from anyone using the tank would be welcome. Bill Have you considered the tall tanks instead of the typical wide ones? You can get all types. Do a search on fish tanks to see what is out there. Jon ************ **Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol com/?optin= new-dp&icid= aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolco m00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33811	From: sandramonjes	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: sharks

do sharks have eyelids

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33812	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Activated Carbon

On Thanksgiving Day, my brother-in-law was joking, at least I think he was joking, about missing "The History of Activated Carbon", which immediately followed "The History of Synthetic Rubber" on TV. He is an organic chemist, so he would, at least, have a peripheral interest in such shows. So, anyhow, to chill his smugness over his little joke, I had a few minutes today to search the Web and found several sites covering the history of activated carbon, as well as other aspects of the substance. I did run across this PowerPoint presentation on activated carbon that may be of interest to the people here. However, to forewarn you, you will need to bear with one slide with a very brief history of activated carbon <g>. www.aqualitysymposium.org/ppts/physicalphysiocemprocesses/CHOROMANSKI%20 activated%20carbo.ppt TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/6z3e9l If you are truly curious, here is the search I did on Google for the history, and it will turn up a lot of other interesting stuff as well: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mo zilla:en-US:official&q=%22Activated+carbon%22+history&start=0&sa=N TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/663n7q \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33813	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

In a message dated 11/30/08 10:59:33 AM, steve@... writes: > On Thanksgiving Day, my brother-in-law was joking, at least I think he > was joking, about missing "The History of Activated Carbon", which > immediately followed "The History of Synthetic Rubber" on TV. He is an > organic chemist, so he would, at least, have a peripheral interest in > such shows. So, anyhow, to chill his smugness over his little joke, I > had a few minutes today to search the Web and found several sites > covering the history of activated carbon, as well as other aspects of > the substance. I did run across this PowerPoint presentation on > activated carbon that may be of interest to the people here. However, to > forewarn you, you will need to bear with one slide with a very brief > history of activated carbon <g>. > I saw the show. It was on the History channel. Usually all I watch. Having a Ph.D in Micro and Biochemistry activated carbon was very interesteding. I am now working on a degree in Organic Chemsity but had to have two year of Organic chem brfore I could take any biochem. Jon ************** Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33814	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: sharks

membranes not eyelids ************** Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp& icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Black Moor wont grow!

Things to think about. How old are the fish? Are you reasonably certain they were all the same age when you bought them? Without buying from a breeder, it's difficult to know these answers precisely. I'll cover tank size issues first. Goldfish should grow 70-80% of their growth in the first 1-2 years and usually reach full adult size by three years. Some fish This is why they NEED the largest tanks possible as babies so they can have room to grow. So many folks think... "I'll get a bigger tank when they get bigger" but that's a catch-22 situation since the fish will NOT get big in an undersized tank. As babies, you should have several gallons up to 10G per goldfish and within six months (juvis) they should be in 20G per goldfish and by one year in 30G per goldfish. ALL fish put out hormones (that we cannot test for at home) and one of these hormones is the one that will cause stunting. Without adequate water volume per fish and frequent PWC's, to remove/dilute these hormones, the fish will get stunted. Stunting is God's way of keeping a fish from literally growing until it is crammed into it's tank/bowl, etc... but it also means the fish will suffer from health issues as it was not allowed to fully grow and develop... similar to malnourished children and/or premature human babies. The fish put out more of these stunting hormones as a percentage as babies and juvis than as adults since they are still growing as babies/juvis so the stunting hormones are more important. The easiest way for the fish keeper is to provide a large enough water volume to dilute the hormones but if that isn't possible (temporarily), then frequent PWC's will be needed to remove/dilute the hormones. There have been studies (experiments) done, even by the hobbyist to prove this. One hobbyist set up five 10G tanks with a baby Oscar in each tank. Under normal circumstances, where these fish would be severely stunted in a 10G, this hobbyist had the tanks plumbed so that they got 100%++ water changes daily by having a constant supply of fresh water flowing into the tank 24 hours a day. Since there were no buildup of hormones or other nasties, the fishes sensory systems were "fooled" into thinking they were in a larger volume of water. The fish were not stunted and grew to full expected size in the first year, before being moved to larger tanks. Next issue would be it's parentage (genetics) and care prior to you getting the fish. It could simply be a runt or it could have been improperly fed during it's early development so it's behind schedule. Lastly, is it getting it's fair share of food when you are feeding it? Goldfish, like all fish, will have their more aggressive fish that push their way to the front of the line for feeding purposes. In these cases, it's up to us to make sure the less aggressive fish still get sufficient quantities of food. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Moor wont grow! I have 5 fancy goldfish, all of which are growing very fast...exept for one. My Black Moor is still about the same size he was when I bought him, and the others have tripled (or more) in size! Is this normal, are Black Moors smaller than other fancies? Why would the other 4 be growing at the exact same pace (they were all bought at the same time, and were about the same size too) exept for this little guy? thanks, Dr.C _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 1:18:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33816	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

What was the name of the show? I did a quick search on historychannel.com using activated carbon, and did not come up with anything like that show. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon In a message dated 11/30/08 10:59:33 AM, steve@... writes: > On Thanksgiving Day, my brother-in-law was joking, at least I think he > was joking, about missing "The History of Activated Carbon", which > immediately followed "The History of Synthetic Rubber" on TV. He is an > organic chemist, so he would, at least, have a peripheral interest in > such shows. So, anyhow, to chill his smugness over his little joke, I > had a few minutes today to search the Web and found several sites > covering the history of activated carbon, as well as other aspects of > the substance. I did run across this PowerPoint presentation on > activated carbon that may be of interest to the people here. However, to > forewarn you, you will need to bear with one slide with a very brief > history of activated carbon <g>. > I saw the show. It was on the History channel. Usually all I watch. Having a Ph.D in Micro and Biochemistry activated carbon was very interesteding. I am now working on a degree in Organic Chemsity but had to have two year of Organic chem brfore I could take any biochem. Jon ************** Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33817	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: sharks

They have upper and lower eyelids, but these lids don't move and don't close over the eye. When biting prey, some sharks protect their eyes with a third eyelid called the nictitating membrane. Answer stolen from: http://www.sdnhm.org/kids/sharks/faq.html#blink \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sandramonjes Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sharks do sharks have eyelids

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: heater woes

We discussed heaters a lot in the past month or so. You could read more details with a search in the group's Messages section for "Heaters". There are several good brands/models. I did just check and see that DrsFosterSmith.com still has the 100W Rena Cal Top Light Excel Heaters on clearance sale for only $10.19.. which is a GREAT price on a very good product. I bought two of these myself, just to keep as backups for when I add new tanks or if the need comes up. If the below link breaks, just go to http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, then click on the Fish tab, then click on the Clearance Products link on the left side and you'll see it listed under Heaters. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3743 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3743&r=478&s= ts> &r=478&s=ts Only the 100W size are on clearance right now which would be suitable for a 20G to 50G size tank depending on how cool/cold the ambient/room temperatures and the needs of the fish. If your tank is larger, then two or more of these would work fine... which is recommended for all tanks IMO. Two half sized heaters are better than one full sized heater. This protects the fish by providing redundancy in the event of a heater failure. If one of the heaters fail in the ON position, it will not be powerful enough to overheat the tank and if one fails in the OFF position, the other will keep the tank from cooling down too much, too fast. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] heater woes I have a submersible heater with a knob on top. I find it very hard to adjust, partly because the knob tends to become unthreaded and the adjustments don't "take." Any recommendations for a reputable brand? Thanks! _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 1:29:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33819	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank

Normal bow-front tanks will NOT distort the size of the fish to any noticeable degree. They are not bowed to the degree that a 1 gallon fish bowl is bowed so the possible magnification is very small. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank Yes Thanks Jon, I have considered those tall type tanks but, as I'm sure you know, its the tanks surface area that allows for how many fish you can keep. Tall narrow tanks do not afford much surface area. Bill --- On Sun, 11/30/08, johchance1@... <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> <johchance1@... <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> > wrote: From: johchance1@... <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> <johchance1@... <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 12:54 PM In a message dated 11/30/2008 12:51:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, warrenprint@ yahoo.com writes: Hi, I would like to hear from anyone owning one of these tanks/ I have a very small aquarium space available and would like some size tank that would accommodate my space limitations. Not having seen this type of tank in person as yet, one point about it does disturb me. Will a bow front tank distort the actual size of the fish inside of it? Comments from anyone using the tank would be welcome. Bill Have you considered the tall tanks instead of the typical wide ones? You can get all types. Do a search on fish tanks to see what is out there. Jon _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 1:34:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: sharks

From: http://www.sdnhm.org/kids/sharks/anatomy.html 3. Eye -- Most sharks have a well-developed sense of vision. They see better at night than most humans, and research suggests that some species can see color. Sharks have upper and lower eyelids, but these lids don't move. Some sharks have a membrane, the nictitating eyelid, that can be closed over the eye to protect it from damage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sandramonjes Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sharks do sharks have eyelids _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 1:36:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33821	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

In a message dated 11/30/2008 2:21:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, steve@... writes: What was the name of the show? I did a quick search on historychannel.com using activated carbon, and did not come up with anything like that show. Modern Marvels: crabon I ONLY watch the History channel. The Universe is on now . **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33822	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: sharks

In a message dated 11/30/2008 2:36:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Eye -- Most sharks have a well-developed sense of vision. They see better at night than most humans, and research suggests that some species can see color. Sharks have upper and lower eyelids, but these lids don't move. Some sharks have a membrane, the nictitating eyelid, that can be closed over the eye to protect it from damage. that is correct. They close the nictitating membrane when they feed to protect their eyes since they feed on live prey. So I guess I do watch the discovery channel also. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33823	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: sharks

In a message dated 11/30/2008 2:29:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, steve@... writes: They have upper and lower eyelids, but these lids don't move and don't close over the eye. When biting prey, some sharks protect their eyes with a third eyelid called the nictitating membrane. Answer stolen from: http://www.sdnhm.org/kids/sharks/faq.html#blink Steve , stole mine form the Discovery channel Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33824	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

I think activated carbon is much older than synthetic rubber. It just hasn't always been called that. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon In a message dated 11/30/08 10:59:33 AM, steve@... writes: > On Thanksgiving Day, my brother-in-law was joking, at least I think he > was joking, about missing "The History of Activated Carbon", which > immediately followed "The History of Synthetic Rubber" on TV. He is an > organic chemist, so he would, at least, have a peripheral interest in > such shows. So, anyhow, to chill his smugness over his little joke, I > had a few minutes today to search the Web and found several sites > covering the history of activated carbon, as well as other aspects of > the substance. I did run across this PowerPoint presentation on > activated carbon that may be of interest to the people here. However, to > forewarn you, you will need to bear with one slide with a very brief > history of activated carbon <g>. > I saw the show. It was on the History channel. Usually all I watch. Having a Ph.D in Micro and Biochemistry activated carbon was very interesteding. I am now working on a degree in Organic Chemsity but had to have two year of Organic chem brfore I could take any biochem. Jon ************** Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33825	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

Of course - but I wouldn't put them in with fish they eat. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 9:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Just another form of predation. You wouldn't keep any fish that was a carnivore? It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not something they need to do to live.just to reproduce. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? They are beautiful catfish for one. Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care cichlids have for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish interfere with this behavior to have their own young survive. I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had any fry. They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the tank from their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. Whenever I see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and watch for the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot saucer in the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their chosen place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? People actually want catfish whose only goal in life is to vampirize baby cichlids? Why? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babie s. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 A I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to th e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33826	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: heater woes

The stealth heaters. Shop around - you hardly need to pay Petsmart's price! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:52 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] heater woes I have a submersible heater with a knob on top. I find it very hard to adjust, partly because the knob tends to become unthreaded and the adjustments don't "take." Any recommendations for a reputable brand? Thanks! ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33827	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: How do you determine Heater wattage?

If the tank is warm enough, LOL! Usually several smaller heaters is better than one big one. I have two 50 watt heaters in teh tank and one out of it. If I cover the tank with towels it does alright, otherwise on chilly nights (by Austin's definition - below 50 degrees), the temperatuer in the fish tank can drop to the mid or even low 70's. I have a third 50 watt I'm thinking about putting in. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "johndumas" <dumasjohnj@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 8:17 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] How do you determine Heater wattage? Is there a easy trick to determine heater wattage? I have several heaters with no markings. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank

Bill, With my acrylic tanks, none of them actually bow-front but I've seen many others with bow-fronts, the only distortion I might get is when looking at the tank through the curved corners of the tank. But this is because the corners have only a 1" radius curve where a bow-front tank probably has a 500' radius curve (or more) so everything in the tank is still close enough to the curve that it does not magnify. You know how a magnifying glass only works as you move it away from the object. If you put a magnifying glass right up to the object, there is no noticeable magnification. This is the same effect that a bow-front tank has. If the back of the tank was far enough away from the front of the tank, there might be some magnification. Heck.. now that I think about it... all the bow-front tanks might be doing is compensating for what old-age is taking away from us. I don't know if it's me getting older or the print getting smaller on some things, but I've been having to pull the old trusty magnifying glass out a lot more often lately. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank Hi, I would like to hear from anyone owning one of these tanks/ I have a very small aquarium space available and would like some size tank that would accommodate my space limitations. Not having seen this type of tank in person as yet, one point about it does disturb me. Will a bow front tank distort the actual size of the fish inside of it? Comments from anyone using the tank would be welcome. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 2:30:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33829	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

1.Is is alright to use Regular Table Salt, as recommended for the fish, to my freshwater tank or do I need to buy a salt product from the pet store? Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33830	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank

I have never owned one, but I have looked at a few with fish in them and I didn't notice any distortion, but I may not have been paying close enough attention. If it distorts it can't be by very much. They have one at the LFS with angel's in it and they don't look any different from the side as to the front in comparison. Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Hi, > > I would like to hear from anyone owning one of these tanks/ > I have a very small aquarium space available and would like > some size tank that would accommodate my space limitations. > > Not having seen this type of tank in person as yet, one point > about it does disturb me. Will a bow front tank distort the actual > size of the fish inside of it? > > Comments from anyone using the tank would be welcome. > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33831	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

Table salt is the exact same thing as "aquarium salt" that you might find in a pet store. There is a "Marine Salt" that is derived from saltwater but for treatment of fish, regular salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is all that is needed. It's best to NOT use Iodized salt but in an emergency, it's OK to use also. The plain salt that you have in your kitchen cupboard works fine for fish for treatment or in the event of livebearers, keeping it in the tank as a permanent additive. Here's a couple of articles all about salt. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml and http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article22.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank 1.Is is alright to use Regular Table Salt, as recommended for the fish, to my freshwater tank or do I need to buy a salt product from the pet store? Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 2:40:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33832	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Aren't there any small cichlids?

It's just like having a smaller version of nature. In the nature fish prey on each other in some form or another (eating their food or babies/eggs etc.). So it's not against nature to put fish that live off of each other in the same tank, makes sense to me. If you don't want your cichlids to over populate with babies it seems like a good idea to keep fish that will eat the babies, and if the syno's need the cichlids to reproduce it also makes sense to keep these 2 fish together. I was actually looking at getting one of the synodontis they have at the LFS but they don't have the specific names of the fish, they're just all lumped together as Syno's and there's a few different species in the tank from what I can see ;) Also they are selling them for nearly 40 dollars each, and I couldn't spend that much just yet on one fish, LOL. The most I've spent on a single fish was 14.99 and that was my angel's. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > Of course - but I wouldn't put them in with fish they eat. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 9:56 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't keep any fish that was a > carnivore? > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that > have > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not something > they need to do to live.just to reproduce. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > They are beautiful catfish for one. > > Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care > cichlids have > for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish interfere with > this behavior to have their own young survive. > > I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had any fry. > They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the tank > from > their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. > Whenever I > see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and watch for > the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot > saucer in > the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their chosen > place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > People actually want catfish whose only goal in life is to vampirize baby > cichlids? > > Why? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But > most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the > cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babie > s. > > Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. > > I suppose they're good for tank birth control. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". > > The parasitic catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, > grow to > 6". > > The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? > Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". > > I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". > > That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. > > 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 > A > I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they > only grow > to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small > cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It > seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or > five feet > > or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for > them > to be happy. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <johchance1@aol. <mailto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga > > In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: > > For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would > you > need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between > PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the > fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many > stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally > puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a > good > profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. > <http://fish.Mongabay.com <http://fish.Mongabay.com>> Mongabay.com> > Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is > a source of good profiles > on > most FW fi > sh that you might be interested in. > http://fish. <http://fish. > <http://fish. > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html>> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > th > e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33833	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: How do you determine Heater wattage?

Size of the heater is helpful too, the shorter they are the lower wattage they will be, but they don't have certain sizes for wattages I don't think. Most of the 50 watt heaters seem to be around 6-8 inches long I think (I'm only guessing as I don't have any to measure on hand, LOL). I only have 1 150 watt heater in my 125 gallon tank (yes that doesn't seem like enough but the temp stays at 81-82 with the heater set on 80 degrees), and that heater is probably about 18 inches long I think (I'd have to go down and pull it out of the tank to measure it, heh). Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > If the tank is warm enough, LOL! Usually several smaller heaters is > better > than one big one. > > I have two 50 watt heaters in teh tank and one out of it. If I cover the > tank with towels it does alright, otherwise on chilly nights (by Austin's > definition - below 50 degrees), the temperatuer in the fish tank can > drop to > the mid or even low 70's. I have a third 50 watt I'm thinking about > putting in. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "johndumas" <dumasjohnj@... > <mailto:dumasjohnj%40netscape.net>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 8:17 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] How do you determine Heater wattage? > > Is there a easy trick to determine heater wattage? I have several > heaters with no markings. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33834	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

Interesting links Lenny. Now, if I add salt should it be dissolved first ? --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 3:40 PM Table salt is the exact same thing as "aquarium salt" that you might find in a pet store. There is a "Marine Salt" that is derived from saltwater but for treatment of fish, regular salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is all that is needed. It's best to NOT use Iodized salt but in an emergency, it's OK to use also. The plain salt that you have in your kitchen cupboard works fine for fish for treatment or in the event of livebearers, keeping it in the tank as a permanent additive. Here's a couple of articles all about salt. http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/salt. shtml and http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ articles/ article22. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank 1.Is is alright to use Regular Table Salt, as recommended for the fish, to my freshwater tank or do I need to buy a salt product from the pet store? Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 2:40:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33835	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

In a message dated 11/30/2008 3:40:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Table salt is the exact same thing as "aquarium salt" that you might find in a pet store. There is a "Marine Salt" that is derived from saltwater but for treatment of fish, regular salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is all that is needed. It's best to NOT use Iodized salt but in an emergency, it's OK to use also. The plain salt that you have in your kitchen cupboard works fine for fish for treatment or in the event of livebearers, keeping it in the tank as a permanent additive. I have not looked at the links but this topic "gets me going". The big marketing craze today is Sea Salt and probiotics. Well someone told my mother that sea salt was better for her so she paid a lot of money for it. The FDA requires any product for human consumption to be labeled with ALL ingredients. The product my mother purchased said on the label NaCl this common table salt. Most types today add iodine in table salt to prevent a am abnormal swell of your thyroid gland. Low sodium salt has either 1/2 inactive ingredients in it and 1/2 NaCl which I consider a waste of money because I salt to taste. Some other low sodium salt has KCL, well that is certainly low sodium, it will also kill you. I found some that has 1/2 NaCl and 1/2 Kcal and I use it very lightly on my food. I have high blood pressure so I try to enhance my food with spices but still use salt. Many of my student tell me that "sea salt" has mineral in it too. Well if it does them it is not on the label in violation of FDA law. So can I use the salt in my kitchen... that depends on what your table slat consist of.. read the label. Probiotics is a fancy word for good bacteria. Yogurt has been made with "active culture" for years. When I first started at the CDC I developed severe GI problem. The specialist said that it was stress and suggested that I eat yogurt with active culture or if I did not like yogurt you can purchase very inexpensive Acidophilus pills that are nothing but freeze dried bacteria that will "come to life" when they get wet. But today marketing firms have you believing that you need a specific type of yogurt like Activia and now Phillips sells NEW probiotics pills that are really expensive. Phillips has an 800 number on their product and I called it one night in my Microbiology class and put them on speaker phone. I had them so confused ( the reps for philips) that my students could not stop laughing. I drink kroger bran smoothie yogurt with active culture and it is as good as these new probiotocs that cost 5-10 x more. **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33836	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

They couldn't have been that interesting.. you didn't read them or you'd know this answer. LOL Just kidding with you but the question is answered in the articles. Yes, salt should be dissolved first. Remove a cup or two of tank water.. or more for a BIG tank.. then dissolve the salt in that removed water and then slowly pour it back into your tank away from your fish and away from your filter intake(S). Go back and read or re-read those articles for more details on adding salt.. especially if being used for treatment of disease since that is a higher level of salt than might be used for permanent dosing in a livebearers tank... or if you give us more info as to why you asked the question in the first place, I and others could give you more detailed answers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank Interesting links Lenny. Now, if I add salt should it be dissolved first ? --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 3:40 PM Table salt is the exact same thing as "aquarium salt" that you might find in a pet store. There is a "Marine Salt" that is derived from saltwater but for treatment of fish, regular salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is all that is needed. It's best to NOT use Iodized salt but in an emergency, it's OK to use also. The plain salt that you have in your kitchen cupboard works fine for fish for treatment or in the event of livebearers, keeping it in the tank as a permanent additive. Here's a couple of articles all about salt. http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/salt. shtml and http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ articles/ article22. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank 1.Is is alright to use Regular Table Salt, as recommended for the fish, to my freshwater tank or do I need to buy a salt product from the pet store? Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 3:29:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33837	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

Phillip, You may use table salt, as required, for treating your tank. In the quantities used for FW treatment, the two worries have been the added iodine, and the anti-caking agent, and both have been shown to be of no concern. The aquarium salt you find in the LFS or online, you can find in your local supermarket as Kosher or canning salt. Compare prices and buy which you'd rather. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank 1.Is is alright to use Regular Table Salt, as recommended for the fish, to my freshwater tank or do I need to buy a salt product from the pet store? Philip

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33838	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

Jon, All I know is I'm not standing next to you when you're drinking Margaritas... since you say salt "gets me going". Personally, it's the tequila that does it for me! ;-) Between you and Mike, ya'll are just a couple of party animals. Bourbon Street might never be the same down here after you two get done with it. LOL As far as the Sea Salt that your mom bought... didn't she see the little (tm) next to Sea(tm)... that was the brand name for the "salt". Dang.. another great idea to get rich that I missed out on. LOL When I mentioned "Marine Salt", it's not the same as "Sea Salt" for human consumption. Here's what the Mayo Clinic says about "Sea Salt" http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sea-salt/AN01142 (START SNIP) Sea salt and table salt have the same nutritional value. The real differences between sea salt and table salt are in their taste and texture. Sea salt is harvested from seawater through evaporation. Table salt is typically from rock salt, which is mined from mineral deposits. Both types of salt can be fully refined, and the end result is pure sodium chloride. Variations in the refining process result in different forms of salt. (END SNIP) This site, while ultimately pushing their product, goes into the debate about Marine Salt as well. I like that it started off comparing how the topic gets more attention than "Bill and Monica".. lol.. kind of dates when the article was written. Anything that uses Bill Clinton as an analogy will usually be interesting... of course, you always have to watch out for what the definition of "is" is. LOL http://www.northcoastmarines.com/salt_comparison.htm I better warn your neighbors when you start reading that article since salt "gets you going" so much. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank In a message dated 11/30/2008 3:40:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Table salt is the exact same thing as "aquarium salt" that you might find in a pet store. There is a "Marine Salt" that is derived from saltwater but for treatment of fish, regular salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is all that is needed. It's best to NOT use Iodized salt but in an emergency, it's OK to use also. The plain salt that you have in your kitchen cupboard works fine for fish for treatment or in the event of livebearers, keeping it in the tank as a permanent additive. I have not looked at the links but this topic "gets me going". The big marketing craze today is Sea Salt and probiotics. Well someone told my mother that sea salt was better for her so she paid a lot of money for it. The FDA requires any product for human consumption to be labeled with ALL ingredients. The product my mother purchased said on the label NaCl this common table salt. Most types today add iodine in table salt to prevent a am abnormal swell of your thyroid gland. Low sodium salt has either 1/2 inactive ingredients in it and 1/2 NaCl which I consider a waste of money because I salt to taste. Some other low sodium salt has KCL, well that is certainly low sodium, it will also kill you. I found some that has 1/2 NaCl and 1/2 Kcal and I use it very lightly on my food. I have high blood pressure so I try to enhance my food with spices but still use salt. Many of my student tell me that "sea salt" has mineral in it too. Well if it does them it is not on the label in violation of FDA law. So can I use the salt in my kitchen... that depends on what your table slat consist of.. read the label. Probiotics is a fancy word for good bacteria. Yogurt has been made with "active culture" for years. When I first started at the CDC I developed severe GI problem. The specialist said that it was stress and suggested that I eat yogurt with active culture or if I did not like yogurt you can purchase very inexpensive Acidophilus pills that are nothing but freeze dried bacteria that will "come to life" when they get wet. But today marketing firms have you believing that you need a specific type of yogurt like Activia and now Phillips sells NEW probiotics pills that are really expensive. Phillips has an 800 number on their product and I called it one night in my Microbiology class and put them on speaker phone. I had them so confused ( the reps for philips) that my students could not stop laughing. I drink kroger bran smoothie yogurt with active culture and it is as good as these new probiotocs that cost 5-10 x more. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 3:45:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33839	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

Potassium chloride is usually the main ingredient in low sodium salts. Far from inactive. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 4:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank In a message dated 11/30/2008 3:40:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Table salt is the exact same thing as "aquarium salt" that you might find in a pet store. There is a "Marine Salt" that is derived from saltwater but for treatment of fish, regular salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is all that is needed. It's best to NOT use Iodized salt but in an emergency, it's OK to use also. The plain salt that you have in your kitchen cupboard works fine for fish for treatment or in the event of livebearers, keeping it in the tank as a permanent additive. I have not looked at the links but this topic "gets me going". The big marketing craze today is Sea Salt and probiotics. Well someone told my mother that sea salt was better for her so she paid a lot of money for it. The FDA requires any product for human consumption to be labeled with ALL ingredients. The product my mother purchased said on the label NaCl this common table salt. Most types today add iodine in table salt to prevent a am abnormal swell of your thyroid gland. Low sodium salt has either 1/2 inactive ingredients in it and 1/2 NaCl which I consider a waste of money because I salt to taste. Some other low sodium salt has KCL, well that is certainly low sodium, it will also kill you. I found some that has 1/2 NaCl and 1/2 Kcal and I use it very lightly on my food. I have high blood pressure so I try to enhance my food with spices but still use salt. Many of my student tell me that "sea salt" has mineral in it too. Well if it does them it is not on the label in violation of FDA law. So can I use the salt in my kitchen... that depends on what your table slat consist of.. read the label. Probiotics is a fancy word for good bacteria. Yogurt has been made with "active culture" for years. When I first started at the CDC I developed severe GI problem. The specialist said that it was stress and suggested that I eat yogurt with active culture or if I did not like yogurt you can purchase very inexpensive Acidophilus pills that are nothing but freeze dried bacteria that will "come to life" when they get wet. But today marketing firms have you believing that you need a specific type of yogurt like Activia and now Phillips sells NEW probiotics pills that are really expensive. Phillips has an 800 number on their product and I called it one night in my Microbiology class and put them on speaker phone. I had them so confused ( the reps for philips) that my students could not stop laughing. I drink kroger bran smoothie yogurt with active culture and it is as good as these new probiotocs that cost 5-10 x more.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33840	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

I have no more question on this subject . I do have to something so say. I joined, being new, to ask and get information. Some questions may seem dumb but you never know. I don't feel wise cracks from a certain member is ever needed in a group forum. Its tasteless and rude. Some of us are new, If it is always like this. I will asked to be removed. --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 4:29 PM They couldn't have been that interesting. . you didn't read them or you'd know this answer. LOL Just kidding with you but the question is answered in the articles. Yes, salt should be dissolved first. Remove a cup or two of tank water.. or more for a BIG tank.. then dissolve the salt in that removed water and then slowly pour it back into your tank away from your fish and away from your filter intake(S). Go back and read or re-read those articles for more details on adding salt.. especially if being used for treatment of disease since that is a higher level of salt than might be used for permanent dosing in a livebearers tank... or if you give us more info as to why you asked the question in the first place, I and others could give you more detailed answers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:14 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank Interesting links Lenny. Now, if I add salt should it be dissolved first ? --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 3:40 PM Table salt is the exact same thing as "aquarium salt" that you might find in a pet store. There is a "Marine Salt" that is derived from saltwater but for treatment of fish, regular salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is all that is needed. It's best to NOT use Iodized salt but in an emergency, it's OK to use also. The plain salt that you have in your kitchen cupboard works fine for fish for treatment or in the event of livebearers, keeping it in the tank as a permanent additive. Here's a couple of articles all about salt. http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/salt. shtml and http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ articles/ article22. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank 1.Is is alright to use Regular Table Salt, as recommended for the fish, to my freshwater tank or do I need to buy a salt product from the pet store? Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 3:29:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33841	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportunity

These three fancy goldfish that I inherited spent the last year in a 10 gallon tank. I have them in a 30 gallon one, now. Have they missed their chance to grow to full size or (if I get them through whatever they have) should I look into a bigger tank very soon? DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33842	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

Thank you Steve, that was a proper and respected answer. Philip --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 4:38 PM Phillip, You may use table salt, as required, for treating your tank. In the quantities used for FW treatment, the two worries have been the added iodine, and the anti-caking agent, and both have been shown to be of no concern. The aquarium salt you find in the LFS or online, you can find in your local supermarket as Kosher or canning salt. Compare prices and buy which you'd rather. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank 1.Is is alright to use Regular Table Salt, as recommended for the fish, to my freshwater tank or do I need to buy a salt product from the pet store? Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33843	From: Lisa	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Attention Lenny.

Hi Lenny. Should I start to be seeing rises in the niterate and niterite by now? It's the 11th or 12th day since the tank was set up, and the only noticeable difference is mild fluctuations in Ph (not that that worries me too much) and a very mild Amonia raise. Which I combat by weekly pwc. Was it you who said I should start to see niterate and niterite spikes after the 10th day? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33844	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

I wish I had seen this before I went to the store. I bought canning and pickling salt, because it doesn't have the calcium silicate or dextrose that my non-iodized salt contains. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank Table salt is the exact same thing as "aquarium salt" that you might find in a pet store. There is a "Marine Salt" that is derived from saltwater but for treatment of fish, regular salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is all that is needed. It's best to NOT use Iodized salt but in an emergency, it's OK to use also. The plain salt that you have in your kitchen cupboard works fine for fish for treatment or in the event of livebearers, keeping it in the tank as a permanent additive. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33845	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportunity

Some fish recover from some stunting and will start growing again but may never reach full potential. Others do not recover and stay stunted. If you can afford a bigger tank, get it. You'll never know unless you give them the proper sized tank. If the fish do not grow to full size (5" to 6"+ bodies), the larger tank will simply make life easier for you and the fish since the water quality will stay in better shape between your weekly tank maintenance (PWC's, filter, gravel vacuuming, etc.). Heck, you might even be able to go every two weeks once in a while.. which would be like a vacation for many goldfish keepers. ;-) If the worse two do not make it... but they should, then your 30G should be fine for the single goldfish you might have left... but if you decide to get him a friend (which isn't needed although they do like to hang out together a lot), you'll need a bigger tank. All that said... YES... get a bigger tank. Worse case scenario is that none of your adopted guys/gals make it but then you'll have a nice BIG tank you can save a few more fancy goldfish from the LFS and provide them a nice big tank to grow up in. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportunity These three fancy goldfish that I inherited spent the last year in a 10 gallon tank. I have them in a 30 gallon one, now. Have they missed their chance to grow to full size or (if I get them through whatever they have) should I look into a bigger tank very soon? DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 4:16:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33846	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

In a message dated 11/30/2008 4:46:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, steve@... writes: Potassium chloride is usually the main ingredient in low sodium salts. Far from inactive. yes and as a concentrated solution if you inject it into someone their heat will stop immediately. same if you consume too much. Several murder cases have involved people injecting other people with KCl. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33847	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

Dang! Why didn't you guys have this conversation this morning when it could have saved me some time and a few bucks? DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo You may use table salt, as required, for treating your tank. In the quantities used for FW treatment, the two worries have been the added iodine, and the anti-caking agent, and both have been shown to be of no concern. The aquarium salt you find in the LFS or online, you can find in your local supermarket as Kosher or canning salt. Compare prices and buy which you'd rather. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33848	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

In a message dated 11/30/2008 4:59:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, alone29784@... writes: I have no more question on this subject . I do have to something so say. I joined, being new, to ask and get information. Some questions may seem dumb but you never know. I don't feel wise cracks from a certain member is ever needed in a group forum. Its tasteless and rude. Some of us are new, If it is always like this. I will asked to be removed. I hope I did not offend you. I am venting at the people who take advantage of people with clever advertising. My mother is retired. Not rich or poor but does not need to buy sea salt because it is better for her. I am sorry if my venting seemed rude. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33849	From: Lisa	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Sexing Mollies and platies

If I wanted to breed Platies or mollies, how do I know what is a male and a female? And what is the male/female stock guide? Eg. 2 males/4 females? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33850	From: Lisa	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Feature wall aquariums

My boyfriend and I are considering a freshwater as a feature wall for when we get a house together. Now I suspect that the length will likely be 3 – 4 meters. And the depth is still debatable, but possibly 2 meters deep This will obviously be a very large custom tank. He likes the aggressive species like tiger oscars, and the dempseys. But I was wondering if any of you have any useful tips for doing this on such a large scale. Like compatible species, what sort of obstacles we can expect to come across If it does happen, my 22 gal will become a children's python, rat, or an aquarium breeder tank. We haven't got a time line for this yet. It'll happen when it happens Thanks Lisa.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33851	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportunity

I guess I need to edit my Christmas wish list then. I'm thinking I'll need something stronger than my buffet to hold a 90 gallon tank. When I said ok to taking them I was thinking it couldn't be too much trouble. My dd already had a tank all set up and after all they weren't coming from a pet store, so they wouldn't be sick like most pet store fish. Ha! Gotta go test the water, now. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny All that said... YES... get a bigger tank. Worse case scenario is that none of your adopted guys/gals make it but then you'll have a nice BIG tank you can save a few more fancy goldfish from the LFS and provide them a nice big tank to grow up in. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33852	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportun...

Is this correct? _http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm_ (http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm) **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33853	From: jett07002	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

You can regular table salt if you need to, but I would recommend Kosher salt. By the way, what are you using the salt for? I would not just put it in indiscriminately. joe t -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: > > 1.Is is alright to use Regular Table Salt, as recommended for the fish, to my freshwater tank or do I need to buy a salt product from the pet store? > > Philip > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33854	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Attention Lenny.

How high has the ammonia gotten? Without seeing actual numbers charted out on a day by day basis, it's hard for me to know where you are in your cycling. "Mild" doesn't give me enough information. What I'm getting at, for example, is if you have a single Zebra Danio in a 100G tank, that tank will still go through the nitrogen cycle just like any other tank but the ammonia and nitrite levels will be so low, probably in ppb's (parts per billion)(not in ppm's - parts per million that our test kits register) that you may never get a visible test result on our simple test kits. If that same Zebra Danio was in a 1G tank, then you would get visible test results but since the levels would be diluted 100 times in the 100G tank, they may not show up on our test kits. In the case of a single Zebra Danio in a 100G tank, the tank could go through the 4-6 week nitrogen cycle without doing a single PWC where in the 1G tank, many PWC's would be needed to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels in the non-toxic range. I'm just speculating here as I've never had a single small fish in a BIG tank but the basic chemistry would support my speculation. It wasn't me who said anything about the 10th day... especially with the nitrite and nitrate levels. You might grow the ammonia eating bacteria by the 10th day which will mean that you will start seeing 0.0ppm for ammonia readings but this isn't always the case either. Once the ammonia eating bacteria start doing their job, they convert the ammonia into nitrite. As the nitrite levels rise, the bacteria that eat nitrites will slowly start to grow their colonies until they have enough to eat all of the nitrites produced by the ammonia eating bacteria, converting the nitrites into nitrates. Once this happens, your ammonia and nitrite levels will drop to 0.0ppm. At that point, the tank is cycled and you will start to see the nitrate levels rise which are kept under 40ppm or even 20ppm by doing regular weekly PWC's. Here's an article chart that shows a typical nitrogen cycle when Cycling With Fish but while the chart might show the ammonia spiking at around 10 days, the article explains this could take 2-3 weeks (14-21 days). http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQualityCycling.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Attention Lenny. Hi Lenny. Should I start to be seeing rises in the niterate and niterite by now? It's the 11th or 12th day since the tank was set up, and the only noticeable difference is mild fluctuations in Ph (not that that worries me too much) and a very mild Amonia raise. Which I combat by weekly pwc. Was it you who said I should start to see niterate and niterite spikes after the 10th day? Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 4:49:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33855	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

It was not You at all Joe. You were fine. --- On Sun, 11/30/08, johchance1@... <johchance1@...> wrote: From: johchance1@... <johchance1@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 5:07 PM In a message dated 11/30/2008 4:59:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, alone29784@yahoo. com writes: I have no more question on this subject . I do have to something so say. I joined, being new, to ask and get information. Some questions may seem dumb but you never know. I don't feel wise cracks from a certain member is ever needed in a group forum. Its tasteless and rude. Some of us are new, If it is always like this. I will asked to be removed. I hope I did not offend you. I am venting at the people who take advantage of people with clever advertising. My mother is retired. Not rich or poor but does not need to buy sea salt because it is better for her. I am sorry if my venting seemed rude. Jon ************ **Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol com/?optin= new-dp&icid= aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolco m00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33856	From: Philip Charles	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

sorry, I meant Jon. --- On Sun, 11/30/08, johchance1@... <johchance1@...> wrote: From: johchance1@... <johchance1@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 5:07 PM In a message dated 11/30/2008 4:59:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, alone29784@yahoo. com writes: I have no more question on this subject . I do have to something so say. I joined, being new, to ask and get information. Some questions may seem dumb but you never know. I don't feel wise cracks from a certain member is ever needed in a group forum. Its tasteless and rude. Some of us are new, If it is always like this. I will asked to be removed. I hope I did not offend you. I am venting at the people who take advantage of people with clever advertising. My mother is retired. Not rich or poor but does not need to buy sea salt because it is better for her. I am sorry if my venting seemed rude. Jon ************ **Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol com/?optin= new-dp&icid= aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolco m00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33857	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Feature wall aquariums

Hi Lisa, Here is a link for a group that I am a member of. If anyone joins the group just be aware that only for building aquariums and I will quote from the web page for that group. " This is a group about BUILDING not MAINTAINING tanks and aquarium equipment." So if anyone joins please be respectful of that and stay on topic. -Mike http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Aquarium_Building/ PS those that participate in Grouply should not apply to join, or they should take measures to not spam that group. -----Original Message----- From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 2:25 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Feature wall aquariums My boyfriend and I are considering a freshwater as a feature wall for when we get a house together. Now I suspect that the length will likely be 3 – 4 meters. And the depth is still debatable, but possibly 2 meters deep… This will obviously be a very large custom tank. He likes the aggressive species like tiger oscars, and the dempseys. But I was wondering if any of you have any useful tips for doing this on such a large scale. Like compatible species, what sort of obstacles we can expect to come across… If it does happen, my 22 gal will become a children's python, rat, or an aquarium breeder tank. We haven't got a time line for this yet. It'll happen when it happens Thanks Lisa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33858	From: Allison Kulp	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank

I've had a 29 gallon bow front for a while. Now when I tried to keep some of my fancy goldfish in it, they did look a bit odd. However, with my danios, they look normal. So, in my case, the more aerodynamic (?) fish look better in the bow front.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33859	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Feature wall aquariums

There are some links that may be helpful at this group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DIY_AQUARIUMS/links That group is basically dead in the water. I started it when a group with almost the same name was abandoned and over run with Spammers. Some of the links or archives may be of use. There is also http://www.garf.org/index.html%c2%a0which has information about building tanks. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feature wall aquariums Hi Lisa, Here is a link for a group that I am a member of. If anyone joins the group just be aware that only for building aquariums and I will quote from the web page for that group. " This is a group about BUILDING not MAINTAINING tanks and aquarium equipment." So if anyone joins please be respectful of that and stay on topic. -Mike http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Aquarium_Building/ PS those that participate in Grouply should not apply to join, or they should take measures to not spam that group. -----Original Message----- From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 2:25 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Feature wall aquariums My boyfriend and I are considering a freshwater as a feature wall for when we get a house together. Now I suspect that the length will likely be 3 – 4 meters. And the depth is still debatable, but possibly 2 meters deep… This will obviously be a very large custom tank. He likes the aggressive species like tiger oscars, and the dempseys. But I was wondering if any of you have any useful tips for doing this on such a large scale. Like compatible species, what sort of obstacles we can expect to come across… If it does happen, my 22 gal will become a children's python, rat, or an aquarium breeder tank. We haven't got a time line for this yet. It'll happen when it happens Thanks Lisa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33860	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: 45-Gallon Bow Front Tank

oh thats kool can you help me with my molly prob? my female was prego when i got her she gave birth yesterday i put her back in her own tank so she wouldent eat her young today i got a male molly so she could have a friend and to breed all she does is chase him around none stop is this normal i need help what should i do? thanks ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33861	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: i need help with my mollys

well i got a molly and she was knocked up withc is what i wanted and she gave birth yesterday the fry are in a breeder net and doing great she gave birth to 21 fry 1 of the 21 came out died the others are all still alive well i put her back in her tank its a small starter tank from wal mart and today i got a male molly to put in with her so A she wouldent be lonely and B to breed well i jus put him in there a few hours ago and all she does is chase him and nip at him she wont leave him alone at all around and around they go none stop is this normal is it a mateing thing or is she trying to kill him or what i jus dont want to wake up tomarrow to a deid fish plezzz help thanks ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33862	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Crushed coral

I have a chunk of coral that the previous owner left me in the sump system that came with the 125 gallon tank, I was wondering if I could crush this up myself (with a hammer or something similar) and use it just like store bought crushed coral? It shouldn't be alive anymore, the system wasn't running for the last 4 weeks or so and it's been sitting dry for at least a week as well. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33863	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re-Post: Angelfish fry didn't free-swim yet

Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:38 pm (PST) I forgot to mention that the temperature is 77 F, the tank is well lighted near a window (no direct sunlight) and there is a DIY airstone-driven filter running in there with polyster from an established tank's filter. Just a few more clues to help find out what's the problem. Some of the fry this morning look detached from their mucous thread, but still struggling to swim, they're on their side hovering on the glass plate that I've put (with a few small gravels) to be able to watch them and not lose them in the 1" gravel layers. Noura -----Original Message----- Hi, So this is the second time my Angels succeed to 'hatch' eggs. I transfered the fry 24 hours after hatching to a cycled new tank (20 liters), filled entirely with water from the spawning tank. The fry are 5.5 days old now (since hatching), and they are not free swimming yet, not even a single one of them. They tripled in size compared to when they first hatched (some are 5 times larger than that). I didn't add any food or infusoria yet, and the sides of the tank are full of tiny white bugs crowling there and swimming. The water parameters taken last night: Nitrite 0 Nitrate 50 GH 10 KH 10 pH 7.6 (The pH of the spawning tank was 8, but I used water from it entirely) I observed the fry, there is a short mucous thread coming out of their heads and sticking to any nearby rock, the fry are constantly trying to free themself but the thread won't fall. Any suggested explainations for this? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

I just got this message.. I guess Yahoo Groups had it bouncing around for 15 hours. I'll answer following each paragraph, in all CAPS (not SCREAMING.. just to separate things), to keep things as simple as possible. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Thank you to Lenny and Dora for your replies. I read them yesterday, but haven't had a chance to respond or to fully explore all the links, yet, because my son and d-i-luv were here for the weekend. I posted pictures of the two affected goldfish on the group photo page and they are awaiting approval by group moderators. When they're approved you can see them here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/699297662/pic/list <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/699297662/pic/list> The picture of the black one is a bit fuzzy, but you can see the pattern where the light shows up the affected areas on his side. LENNY - I LOOKED AT THE PHOTOS BUT UNFORTUNATELY, FISH DO NOT POSE VERY WELL. THAT'S WHY I SENT YOU TO THE FISH PALACE WEBSITE WITH ALL OF THE GOOD PICTURES FOR YOU TO COMPARE YOUR FISH TO FOR THE BEST POSSIBLE IDENTIFICATION OF A PARTICULAR DISEASE. I'm going to try and reply to both posts here and I hope I don't miss anything important. As far as the fishes' history, they were previously kept in a 10 gallon aquarium. They are now in a 30 gallon one, which I understand will not be big enough when they're grown, but it beats what they had and they're each less than 2 inches from nose to tail base right now. LENNY - YES THE 30G IS 300% MORE WATER VOLUME SO IT WILL HELP. SINCE FANCY GOLDFISH SHOULD LIVE WELL OVER 10 YEARS, IT WILL NOT LIKELY BE LARGE ENOUGH FOR LONG TERM BUT IT'S FINE WHILE YOU ARE TREATING THE FISH. MOST OF US MOVE FISH INTO 10G TANKS WHEN TREATING THEM ANYHOW. They have an AquaClear filter with the carbon filter temporarily removed for medication. It was only run intermittantly during the year that the aquarium was empty. It has run full time since the goldfish arrived. LENNY - THESE ARE A GOOD BRAND. WHAT SIZE AC IS IT? KEEP IT RUNNING FULL TIME AND WATCH THE AMMONIA, NITRITE LEVELS. DID YOU SEED THE FILTER WITH SOME FILTER MEDIA FROM YOUR OTHER TANK TO HELP JUMP START THE NITROGEN CYCLE ON THE GOLDFISH TANK? I'm feeding TetraFin Goldfish food twice a day. I don't know what food they were getting before. LENNY - AS MONEY AND TIME ALLOWS, MOVE UP TO A BETTER BRAND OF GOLDFISH FOOD. TETRA FISH FOODS ARE USUALLY VERY HIGH IN FLOUR'S, MEAL PRODUCTS, ETC. IT'S OK TO KEEP FEEDING THEM SOME OF THIS FOOD AS PART OF A VARIED DIET BUT ALSO GET A BETTER BRAND THAT DOES NOT LIST FLOUR'S/MEAL'S AS THE FIRST FEW INGREDIENTS. OMEGA ONE BRAND MAKES QUALITY FISH FOODS AND THERE ARE MANY OTHER BRANDS THAT ALSO MAKE QUALITY FISH FOODS. THEY COST A LITTLE MORE BUT WITH FANCY GOLDFISH, A DECENT DIET IS IMPORTANT AS THESE FISH ARE PRONE TO HAVING DIGESTIVE AND SWIM BLADDER ISSUES. HERE'S A MORE DETAILED ARTICLE ON THE SUBJECT. http://thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html THE BOTTOM HALF OF PAGE TWO OF THIS ARTICLE HAS MORE OF THE MEAT AND POTATOES OF THE ARTICLE... I GUESS SAVING THE BEST FOR LAST. ;-) I initially corrected the nitrite and ammonia levels with AmQuel+plus. I've also been doing PWCs since Wednesday and will retest after the PWC tomorrow for pH, nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia. LENNY - THIS IS WHAT NOVALEK (THE MAKERS OF KORDON'S AMQUEL PLUS) SAYS ABOUT THEIR PRODUCT... "...Many aquarists and pond keepers are used to using water test kits to see how much ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are in the water. With AmQuel+ this is given a different perspective, because AmQuel+ contains ingredients that absolutely are going to take out at least 1.2 ppm ammonia/ammonium, 2.0 ppm nitrites, and 13 ppm nitrates. With successive uses these toxic nitrogen compounds are not going to be a problem in aquarium and pond keeping. Therefore, the need for using test kits in aquarium and pond keeping is really lessened, because the AmQuel+ can be depended upon....". BUT PLEASE NOTE THAT THE PRODUCT ONLY REMOVES 1.2PPM OF AMMONIA AND 2.0PPM OF NITRITES. WITHOUT TESTING AND DOING PWC'S, THESE LEVELS CAN GET MUCH, MUCH HIGHER IN A GOLDFISH TANK. A 2" GOLDFISH HAS A LOT MORE BODY MASS COMPARED TO 2 INCHES OF ZEBRA DANIO (OR OTHER MINNOW TYPE FISH) SO THEY PUT OUT A LOT MORE AMMONIA. READ MY GOLDFISH CARE SHEET FOR MORE INFO ON GOLDFISH BODY MASS. A SINGLE ADULT 8" FANCY GOLDFISH IS EQUAL IN BODY MASS TO OVER 500 ONE INCH GOLDFISH. The white cottony areas that I'm seeing on two of the fish began on the bodies near the base of the tail. From the websites that I've looked at, I think it's fungus, but it doesn't look exactly like any of the picutes I've seen and I'll be the first to admit that I'm no fish expert. When they arrived, one had a really frayed tail and a second somewhat frayed, but it looked more like dominance related pruning. I didn't see any of the white on the tails or fins. The weakest one's tail has since gotten much shorter, though and there may be something on the edges, although it's not like the white on it's sides. Bacteria? I don't know. The healthy one has no white spots at all anywhere and it's tail is just gorgeously magnificent and flawless. LENNY - THE FRAYED TAIL IS USUALLY DUE TO BAD WATER CONDITIONS (LOW pH, KH AND GH, HIGH AMMONIA, HIGH NITRITE, HIGH NITRATE, ETC.). IF THE TAIL FIN MEMBRANE IS ROTTING AWAY, THEN IT'S FIN ROT (USUALLY BACTERIAL). FUNGUS IS A THIRD ISSUE. IT'S NOT UNUSUAL TO HAVE A HEALTHY FISH AND A SICK FISH IN THE SAME TANK. IT HAS TO DO WITH THE IMMUNE SYSTEMS OF THE INDIVIDUAL FISH. IMMUNE SYSTEM ISSUES ARE COMMON IN STUNTED FISH... JUST LIKE WITH PREMATURE HUMAN BABIES THAT DID NOT DEVELOP FULLY. I've raised the water temperature to 70-72 deg using a heating pad against one end of the aquarium until I can get an actual aquarium heater. I've been doing 25 to 30% water changes daily followed by malachite green for the last 4 days. There may be a slight improvement, but the treatments are very stressful on the weakest one. LENNY - YES, QUITE OFTEN, TREATMENTS ARE STRESSFUL ON THE FISH BUT WITHOUT THE TREATMENT, THE FISH WOULD BE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO NOT MAKE IT. I'm considering removing the gravel until I get this problem under control. Would this be a good idea or no? LENNY - DO NOT REMOVE THE GRAVEL AT THIS POINT. JUST VACUUM IT WELL WITH EACH PWC YOU ARE DOING TO REMOVE ANY FISH WASTE AND BUILT UP DETRITUS SO THE WATER QUALITY WILL STAY IN GOOD SHAPE. THERE ARE HOPEFULLY SOME GOOD NITRIFYING BACTERIA STILL LIVING IN THE GRAVEL FROM WHEN THE TANK WAS SITTING STAGNANT FOR A WHILE AND THESE BACTERIA MIGHT HELP CYCLE THE TANK FASTER. YOU NEVER DID TELL US WHAT YOU DID TO THIS 30G TANK TO PREPARE IT FOR THE GOLDFISH. YOU SAID IT WAS SITTING AROUND WITHOUT THE FILTER RUNNING BUT DID YOU BREAK IT DOWN AND CLEAN IT OUT COMPLETELY... AND THE FILTER SYSTEM TOO? GIVE US MORE DETAILS. I read the article on salt ( http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml> ) and am more confused than ever. I'm hoping the packaging will be more clear when I buy it. LENNY - HERE'S A SIMPLER ARTICLE BUT THE DOSAGES ARE FOR POND FISH. THE SIMPLE KEY FOR DOSING SALT IS TO ADD ONLY 1/3RD AT A TIME EVERY 12 HOURS TO BRING IT UP TO THE FULL DOSE IN 24 HOURS. So in conclusion, I'll be making a trip to the pet store tomorrow. So far I have salt, a heater, and antibiotic on my list. do I need to get anything else? LENNY - YEAH... THAT BIG TANK. ;-) LOL DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081130-0, 11/30/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 7:27:31 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33865	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Sexing Mollies and platies

Lisa, It is fairly easy to sex mollies and platys. Both are _Poeciliids_ and all _Poeciliids_ have the same structure that identifies the males. That is a modified anal fin, called a gonopodium. Pretty much what happens is that the anal fin collapses and forms a conduit for the sperm to travel through. The females have a standard issue anal fin. Not all livebearers have this modification per se, but do sport a similar modification. You would want one male to at least two females. With two females, the group is referred to as a trio. The multiple females to male ratio is to prevent males from harassing the females with their advances. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 5:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sexing Mollies and platies If I wanted to breed Platies or mollies, how do I know what is a male and a female? And what is the male/female stock guide? Eg. 2 males/4 females? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33866	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Feature wall aquariums

Lisa, Just a few thoughts, thinking about your idea: If the aquarium is to be built into a wall, you will need to plan for access to the tank for cleaning, feeding and other maintenance purposes. If the tank is to serve as a room divider, instead, say to separate a dining area from a living area, you will likely be building out from a wall, and there should be a closet made to house a water source & sink, the filtering elements, possibly the heating, and enough electricity to run the tank, with a few extra outlets for other needs that may crop up over time. With a tank 2m in depth and a standard ceiling height (here in the US, generally 8' to 10' depending on the age of the house and the traditional form of architecture in the region), you will not be left with much in the way of access to the tank from the top, particularly if you raise the bottom of the tank from the floor, as you may want to do. Should this prove to be the case, you would want to reduce the depth of the tank. You may also wish to reduce it once you determine that you may not be effectively be able to reach and clean the depth without actually having to enter the tank. You might want to consider cutting the depth of the tank to 1M or even less to help with these problems. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Feature wall aquariums My boyfriend and I are considering a freshwater as a feature wall for when we get a house together. Now I suspect that the length will likely be 3 - 4 meters. And the depth is still debatable, but possibly 2 meters deep... This will obviously be a very large custom tank. He likes the aggressive species like tiger oscars, and the dempseys. But I was wondering if any of you have any useful tips for doing this on such a large scale. Like compatible species, what sort of obstacles we can expect to come across... If it does happen, my 22 gal will become a children's python, rat, or an aquarium breeder tank. We haven't got a time line for this yet. It'll happen when it happens Thanks Lisa.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33867	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportun...

For the conversions I know, it was correct. I usually use www.onlineconversions.com, though it is a bit of overkill with all the various measurements it can provide, and some I need to do some math prior to or after getting my answer from there. If you know the math, you can take a look at the source code of the site and determine if they are using the right formulae to get the correct answers. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johchance1@... Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank size, Growth Stunting Hormones, and Window of Opportun... Is this correct?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33868	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: biocube

I have a 29 gallon saltwater setup and i love it, it's an all inclusive system so no extras needed, mine maintains a really good temp without a heater, but for a freshwater i would say stick one on the side glass there is enough space in the hood and a gap in the back on both sides to runa line out, seems to move the water really well, and bioballs is what i see in any overflow system it promotes the bacteria growth, there is also a sponge and carbon filter so you get a combo going. the min and max fill lines make for an idiot proof top off and water change, just add water slow and let the water level catch up, i think i'ts great if you want a small system, the only issues i have is that my original flourescent burnt out way too fast, but the guy i bought it from told me to replace it with a new one then bring back the old bulb in the new box and he's gonna credit me for it becauseit should not have happened, and the curved edges make it impossible to clean the algea in the curve with a magfloat, it's a little more than you need for freshwater but great for a nano salt system --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > Any thoughts on the BioCube? I have one, but I'm not sure I love it. > Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33869	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

It seems that you have them in a bare tank, or bare enough so that neither can find a good area to call home. You'll need to get some plants, real or artificial, in there to provide each with some cover they can hide in, and call their own. What size is the tank? Are the fry in the same tank as the two adult mollies? What are your water parameters (temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite)? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] i need help with my mollys well i got a molly and she was knocked up withc is what i wanted and she gave birth yesterday the fry are in a breeder net and doing great she gave birth to 21 fry 1 of the 21 came out died the others are all still alive well i put her back in her tank its a small starter tank from wal mart and today i got a male molly to put in with her so A she wouldent be lonely and B to breed well i jus put him in there a few hours ago and all she does is chase him and nip at him she wont leave him alone at all around and around they go none stop is this normal is it a mateing thing or is she trying to kill him or what i jus dont want to wake up tomarrow to a deid fish plezzz help thanks ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33870	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: new month...

so it's the end of the month and somehow i got my major maintainance centered around the 1st which makes things easier. I have 4 tanks 10 gallon fresh community, 29 gallon fresh community, 55 gallon african cichlids, 29 gallon saltwater (fish only for now), and i did all 4 water changes in under an hour without really much urgency. I do weekly to bi weekly with the smaller tanks so the big change was doing the 55 gallon, and of course i changed and cleaned all the filters, i run 6 filters with 5 different types or sizes of cartridges so its fun making sure i get it all done correctly, also i had been gone for a few days but when i got back last night the timer on my biocude had already gone to the night lights and the day lights did not come on until after leavng for work this morning, but when i got home i saw that my flourescents burnt out and the tank is only a month old, so i went to where i bought it and they are gonna refund me for the new bulb if i bring the bad one back so that's always good, i almost forgot to put the clear plastic housing back around the lights though which could have been very costly! all of my fish are doing great, i posted a few pics of my newer cichlids since upgrading to a 55 gal including my sunshine that i just love! everything appears healthy except a little marine ick prob i'm having that i can't even see under daylight but the led night lights make it glow a little but luckily i saw it and can treat it, just not sure if i should add heat with saltwater ick, any suggestions? i was told using garlic helps, i already supplement food so i'm going to add some to the tank as well i dunno hopefully it will pass soon. I'm still trying to find something nice to add to my 29 gal fresh community other than more tetras or a barb, I have been looking at Bolivian Rams they aren't too aggressive fit in the tank and can stand my normal water parameters, the only problem is finding one... my local guy is trying to order one for me but he doesn't know if he can yet. blue rams i can find... but they like angels aren't really meant for my water and i don't want to take the risk, any suggestion on where to find one or a suggestion on a different fish i can look into let me know oh and if you guys need a good calandar or reminder for maintainance i downloded a nanoplanner widget for yahoo, i got it from the current website and it makes keeping track of everything so easy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33871	From: amsterbaum	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: heater woes

Thanks for the advice, everyone, and thanks for reminding me to check the archives!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33872	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

well the to mollys are in a lil starter tank from wal mart its like 1 gallon ima get them a bigger one very soon the fry are in a breeder net in a 10 gallon i put some fake plants in there and he hides but i dont want him to have to hide all the time but i think there doing better cuz hes free swiming now and shes leaveing him alone......nvm there at it again well now she chase him then stops then chase him then stops i guess thats better then none stop but ya from talking to people she will have more babies soon cuz she can hold sperm and have like 3 to 6 things of babeis i dont hvae a heater yet im only 17 and i dont have a job so its kinda hard to by alot of stuff when u dont have money lmao but ya ne thing i need to no about mollies?or guppies thanks ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33873	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

Here's a good profile all about livebearers (Poeciliidae family)... mollies, guppies, platies. http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm What else is in the 10G tank? The 1G isn't really big enough for two mollies. It's not really big enough for anything to stay in long term... maybe a half dozen Cherry Shrimp or other FW shrimp... but Cherry Shrimp have been known to breed like guppies/mollies also so a 1G could be quickly overwhelmed with them also. Also try to answer all the other questions posted by others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 8:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: i need help with my mollys well the to mollys are in a lil starter tank from wal mart its like 1 gallon ima get them a bigger one very soon the fry are in a breeder net in a 10 gallon i put some fake plants in there and he hides but i dont want him to have to hide all the time but i think there doing better cuz hes free swiming now and shes leaveing him alone......nvm there at it again well now she chase him then stops then chase him then stops i guess thats better then none stop but ya from talking to people she will have more babies soon cuz she can hold sperm and have like 3 to 6 things of babeis i dont hvae a heater yet im only 17 and i dont have a job so its kinda hard to by alot of stuff when u dont have money lmao but ya ne thing i need to no about mollies?or guppies thanks ~`~LOW~`~ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081130-0, 11/30/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 8:55:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33874	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

It is imperative to get those fish into proper quarters for them. That 1 gallon tank is way too small for them. First thing would be to get a larger tank. Buy the biggest one you can for the space you have available. Depending on the mollies you have, you may need up to 20 gallons of water to house the two properly. A larger tank would allow more additions later on. You'll need a heater to fit the size of the tank (mollies like a temperature higher than normal room temperature), and a filter that also fits the size of the tank. A tank cover is also needed. Depending on whether you want to keep live plants, you will need a light source as well. If you are not immediately going to use live plants, you'll need a cover and can use ambient lighting. Do this tomorrow, even if you need to borrow the money from your parents. It really is imperative to get those mollies properly housed to that both you and they are happy. If you just move the mollies to the new tank, add some salt to the water. The mollies will like it and it will help protect them when the nitrite begins to spike, and through that part of the cycle. Use about 1-2 tsp. per gallon of water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: i need help with my mollys well the to mollys are in a lil starter tank from wal mart its like 1 gallon ima get them a bigger one very soon the fry are in a breeder net in a 10 gallon i put some fake plants in there and he hides but i dont want him to have to hide all the time but i think there doing better cuz hes free swiming now and shes leaveing him alone......nvm there at it again well now she chase him then stops then chase him then stops i guess thats better then none stop but ya from talking to people she will have more babies soon cuz she can hold sperm and have like 3 to 6 things of babeis i dont hvae a heater yet im only 17 and i dont have a job so its kinda hard to by alot of stuff when u dont have money lmao but ya ne thing i need to no about mollies?or guppies thanks ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33875	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

well in the one 10g i have four guppies and shrimp the other 10g i have tiger bards and the breeder net and im trying to answer ever ones ? but im like talking to 5 people at once and it gets a lil confuseing lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33876	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

i will i mean i feel like a lil kid for saying this but i get 20$ for luch a week so i jus will pack a lunch not tell them so ill have atleast 20$ and 10g tanks are only 10$ so i should beable to that but the heater may have to wait a week or so and i could take back the starter kit that cost 10$ but it was nice cuz it came wiht a light and a air pump but i have anoter air pump and i have a few work lights around the house i coulz get with out ne one missing it so i guess tomarrow i can get a 10g tank would that be enough to make my fish happy?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33877	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

You still have not told us what you have for mollies. There are numerous varieties out there, and about 4-5 commonly available species, none of which grow to the same size as the others. They would indeed be happier in the 10 gallon tank, but whether they will be suited to a 10 gallon is a different question. Also, you haven't even told us the basic water parameters yet, which are pretty important. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 10:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: i need help with my mollys i will i mean i feel like a lil kid for saying this but i get 20$ for luch a week so i jus will pack a lunch not tell them so ill have atleast 20$ and 10g tanks are only 10$ so i should beable to that but the heater may have to wait a week or so and i could take back the starter kit that cost 10$ but it was nice cuz it came wiht a light and a air pump but i have anoter air pump and i have a few work lights around the house i coulz get with out ne one missing it so i guess tomarrow i can get a 10g tank would that be enough to make my fish happy?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

You might want to separate the females and males so they'll quit breeding since you have a limited budget... don't we all! 10G tanks aren't really big enough for livebearers... unless you keep sexed tanks only... so you in the future, you might want to reconsider what kind of fish you keep. It's time to go out and get you a little part-time job to feed your MTS addiction (MTS = multiple tank syndrome). LOL For more info on which fish do well in a 10G, I have a long article on my blog "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: i need help with my mollys i will i mean i feel like a lil kid for saying this but i get 20$ for luch a week so i jus will pack a lunch not tell them so ill have atleast 20$ and 10g tanks are only 10$ so i should beable to that but the heater may have to wait a week or so and i could take back the starter kit that cost 10$ but it was nice cuz it came wiht a light and a air pump but i have anoter air pump and i have a few work lights around the house i coulz get with out ne one missing it so i guess tomarrow i can get a 10g tank would that be enough to make my fish happy? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081130-0, 11/30/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 9:33:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33879	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

ok well idk what type of molly they are but there both all black and they came from wal mart and right now there in a 1 gallon tank but i jus moved them to the 10 with the guppies so tommarow im geting another 10g for the mollies and i dont no ne thing about hte water cuz i dont have the money right now to test it ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33880	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

well i plan on giveing the fry away once they grow up cuz i gotta alotta people asking me for fish and my mom wants to make like fish tanks and sell them at her work i guess people there go crazy for that stuff and i would love to get a part time job but i dont have the time cuz i go to high school and college so im pretty busy but in the summer i have a full time job so then money wont be a prob and also x mas i ussaly have reletive who jus give me money lol but ima get my mollys a bigger tank tomarrow

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33881	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

It is very important to have test kits so you can keep an eye on your water quality and be able to rectify anything that goes wrong before it becomes a serious problem. You can get one of the API master test kits, I understand, for between $15-20. This hobby is not inexpensive when you do it right, but it does not have to be a budget breaker either. I'd urge you to follow Lenny's suggestion to get yourself a part time job. I held my first job when I was 14. Since then, the only time I have been out of work was by choice, and I have never had a problem finding a job in good times or in bad. I believe that Lenny is near my age, and there are others here who are also--and a few older, and we can all tell you that the way things are now is nothing compared to some of the bad times we have lived through. You may not be able to get a job that you want, but, you will be able to find a job. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 10:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: i need help with my mollys ok well idk what type of molly they are but there both all black and they came from wal mart and right now there in a 1 gallon tank but i jus moved them to the 10 with the guppies so tommarow im geting another 10g for the mollies and i dont no ne thing about hte water cuz i dont have the money right now to test it ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33882	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

ok well i use to work at bk but they would only give me 3 hours a week and i litterly filled out over 12 apps and only bk called me back and that job sucked i got burned almost every day i worked but ne ways ima try to get a job at a pet store i seen it had a help wnated and figured since i live on a farm i no about animals and there care and breeding etc so i hope that that will work out but if that dont i have no where else to put a app in at i try litterly every place in the lil cit....i live in the middel of no where jus so u no so its hard to find a job close ne one got ne job ideas its winter here so lawn care is out of the ? and i think im alil old to be baby sitting kids but i tryed every fast food place rite aid ace hard wear and the other prob is most places i have to be 18 to work and im not 18 yet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33883	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

Not sure if anyone mentioned looking for a local www.Craigslist.org and Freecycle. Those are two excellent resources for used aquarium equipment. -Mike It's time to go out and get you a little part-time job to feed your MTS addiction (MTS = multiple tank syndrome). LOL -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 7:33 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: i need help with my mollys You might want to separate the females and males so they'll quit breeding since you have a limited budget... don't we all! 10G tanks aren't really big enough for livebearers... unless you keep sexed tanks only... so you in the future, you might want to reconsider what kind of fish you keep. It's time to go out and get you a little part-time job to feed your MTS addiction (MTS = multiple tank syndrome). LOL For more info on which fish do well in a 10G, I have a long article on my blog "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: i need help with my mollys i will i mean i feel like a lil kid for saying this but i get 20$ for luch a week so i jus will pack a lunch not tell them so ill have atleast 20$ and 10g tanks are only 10$ so i should beable to that but the heater may have to wait a week or so and i could take back the starter kit that cost 10$ but it was nice cuz it came wiht a light and a air pump but i have anoter air pump and i have a few work lights around the house i coulz get with out ne one missing it so i guess tomarrow i can get a 10g tank would that be enough to make my fish happy? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081130-0, 11/30/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 9:33:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33884	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

Two years ago, my dad gave us the news, proudly, that the town I did a lot of growing up in and where my parents still live had reached a population of 3000. Yet, I was still able to find work there, and worked summers in that town. When I went to high school, it was a private school. The jobs available there were for those who were on scholarship, and I was not. We had classes 6 days a week, but Wednesday afternoon, Saturday afternoon and Sundays we were allowed off campus. I was able to get a few hours a week on Wednesday and Saturday afternoons. I also had some college courses that I took during my tenure there. Back then, almost nothing was open on Sundays, so that was out for work for me. The town the school was in was larger than the one I came from, and there were more opportunities. Kept a small tank at school when I got into a room rather than the open dorm, also. I worked all through college, also, and I did pick up some more money playing pitch. Again, this was a small town. I was trying to remember what the population was, but a recent count shows it at just above 9100 people. I'm sure it was less when I went there. Once out of college, I went through several sucky jobs over the years until I finally got one I liked. Now, I own a business in the same field. I'm sure that others here will be able to tell you similar stories. I also had time to have some fun. Too much fun according to others, and some still think I have too much fun <G>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: i need help with my mollys ok well i use to work at bk but they would only give me 3 hours a week and i litterly filled out over 12 apps and only bk called me back and that job sucked i got burned almost every day i worked but ne ways ima try to get a job at a pet store i seen it had a help wnated and figured since i live on a farm i no about animals and there care and breeding etc so i hope that that will work out but if that dont i have no where else to put a app in at i try litterly every place in the lil cit....i live in the middel of no where jus so u no so its hard to find a job close ne one got ne job ideas its winter here so lawn care is out of the ? and i think im alil old to be baby sitting kids but i tryed every fast food place rite aid ace hard wear and the other prob is most places i have to be 18 to work and im not 18 yet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33885	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33886	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081130-0, 11/30/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 3:17:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33887	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: new month...

For the 29G either Brichardi or Multifasciatus and harlequin rasboras. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new month... so it's the end of the month and somehow i got my major maintainance centered around the 1st which makes things easier. I have 4 tanks 10 gallon fresh community, 29 gallon fresh community, 55 gallon african cichlids, 29 gallon saltwater (fish only for now), and i did all 4 water changes in under an hour without really much urgency. I do weekly to bi weekly with the smaller tanks so the big change was doing the 55 gallon, and of course i changed and cleaned all the filters, i run 6 filters with 5 different types or sizes of cartridges so its fun making sure i get it all done correctly, also i had been gone for a few days but when i got back last night the timer on my biocude had already gone to the night lights and the day lights did not come on until after leavng for work this morning, but when i got home i saw that my flourescents burnt out and the tank is only a month old, so i went to where i bought it and they are gonna refund me for the new bulb if i bring the bad one back so that's always good, i almost forgot to put the clear plastic housing back around the lights though which could have been very costly! all of my fish are doing great, i posted a few pics of my newer cichlids since upgrading to a 55 gal including my sunshine that i just love! everything appears healthy except a little marine ick prob i'm having that i can't even see under daylight but the led night lights make it glow a little but luckily i saw it and can treat it, just not sure if i should add heat with saltwater ick, any suggestions? i was told using garlic helps, i already supplement food so i'm going to add some to the tank as well i dunno hopefully it will pass soon. I'm still trying to find something nice to add to my 29 gal fresh community other than more tetras or a barb, I have been looking at Bolivian Rams they aren't too aggressive fit in the tank and can stand my normal water parameters, the only problem is finding one... my local guy is trying to order one for me but he doesn't know if he can yet. blue rams i can find... but they like angels aren't really meant for my water and i don't want to take the risk, any suggestion on where to find one or a suggestion on a different fish i can look into let me know oh and if you guys need a good calandar or reminder for maintainance i downloded a nanoplanner widget for yahoo, i got it from the current website and it makes keeping track of everything so easy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33888	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)

Well apparently my tank has ick, I have started raising the temps (it's at 82 now and I set the temp up a couple more degrees, will raise it again at lunch), I wasn't sure how fast you should raise the temps so I didn't want to raise it too fast. I also added about half the dosage of salt that the box recommends, going to add more at lunch (hopefully the water disolves the salt by then, LOL). I'm not sure if one of the new fish passed it on, but I'm thinking I had it before I got the fish and moved all the fish into the big tank, now that I have read over all the symptoms. I've test the tank several times and everything is reading 0 (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and PH is where it always is, 6.1). I can't find my GH/KH test strips still so I can't give that reading. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33889	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

im haveing such a bad day so far my male guppy got killed by the mollys and i now jus found out (i feel like such a retard fornot noing this but) my teacher told my the fish she gave me werntguppys there mosquito fish i was like o and she gave me a few more and well guess what the ones really big and its a girl ima take a wild guess and say shes gonna have frys no one no ne thing about this fish at all i never herd of them or ne thing gah my days pretty sucks but plez help me if u no ne thing about them there live bears all so coulz u cross breed them with a guppy? there about the same size and breed the same way? thanks ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33890	From: zoarvalley1946	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

All I think you really need to do immediately, is to put the adult mollys in with the guppies, adding some salt as Steve suggested (use non-iodized salt, cheap at the grocery store). Also put the breeder net with the fry in this tank. That would take care of the immediate crisis. Then start saving your money for more and bigger tanks, etc. It would be a good idea to get a book or two on aquariums out of the library and read up on anything you plan to add before you add it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "theyxcallxmexl" <theyxcallxmexl@...> wrote: > > well i got a molly and she was knocked up withc is what i wanted and > she gave birth yesterday > the fry are in a breeder net and doing great she gave birth to 21 fry 1 > of the 21 came out died > the others are all still alive > well i put her back in her tank its a small starter tank from wal mart > and today i got a male molly to put in with her > so A she wouldent be lonely and B to breed > well i jus put him in there a few hours ago and > all she does is chase him and nip at him she wont leave him alone at > all > around and around they go none stop > is this normal is it a mateing thing or is she trying to kill him or > what > i jus dont want to wake up tomarrow to a deid fish > plezzz help > thanks > ~`~LOW~`~ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33891	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter....

I am getting a 50 gal. tank and need some advice on a filter, I want to avoid getting an undergravel filter. What kind of canister filter is good and not to expensive? I am looking at doing a freshwater tank. Also who has the best prices on them? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33892	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

ugh im so mad i put my two mollies in my ten gallon tank jus till i could go to wal mart well i put them in there last nght and i woke up to a dead male guppy this is really startingto make me mad thill be the 3 rd male guppy in a week the first male guppy jus kinda died idk how but im not worryed cuz all my fish are find and healthy and eating but come on they were in the tank for like 8 hours he had places to hide im so pissed off right now i can tell todays gonna be a great day :/ ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)

Amber, You should ALWAYS mix the salt in some removed tank water first and then slowly pour it into the tank avoiding any fish and the filter intake. DO NOT just add salt granules into the tank. Presuming you will be bringing the salt level up to the 0.3% level (3 teaspoons per gallon), you want to add this in 3 doses of 1 teaspoon per gallon every twelve hours to give the fish and nitrifying bacteria a chance to acclimate to the salt level increases. During this same 24 hour period, you can start raising the temperature by 2F per day until you reach the desired temperature (86F). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it) Well apparently my tank has ick, I have started raising the temps (it's at 82 now and I set the temp up a couple more degrees, will raise it again at lunch), I wasn't sure how fast you should raise the temps so I didn't want to raise it too fast. I also added about half the dosage of salt that the box recommends, going to add more at lunch (hopefully the water disolves the salt by then, LOL). I'm not sure if one of the new fish passed it on, but I'm thinking I had it before I got the fish and moved all the fish into the big tank, now that I have read over all the symptoms. I've test the tank several times and everything is reading 0 (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and PH is where it always is, 6.1). I can't find my GH/KH test strips still so I can't give that reading. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 1:26:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33894	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)

Well apparently my heater isn't doing the trick to keep the temps up, so I'm going to go to the LFS after work today and get another heater to put in the tank (would like a 400 watt if they have one). I'm going to try the heat/salt trick instead of buying medicine since a few people tried it recently and it seemed to work (the heat trick at least, not sure about salt). Will it work faster if I use both? I don't think I have anything in my tank that's too sensitive to salt. I've lost a gourami and a glofish this morning, but I only raised the temps last night and added salt this morning. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > Well apparently my tank has ick, I have started raising the temps (it's > at 82 now and I set the temp up a couple more degrees, will raise it > again at lunch), I wasn't sure how fast you should raise the temps so I > didn't want to raise it too fast. I also added about half the dosage of > salt that the box recommends, going to add more at lunch (hopefully the > water disolves the salt by then, LOL). I'm not sure if one of the new > fish passed it on, but I'm thinking I had it before I got the fish and > moved all the fish into the big tank, now that I have read over all the > symptoms. > I've test the tank several times and everything is reading 0 (ammonia, > nitrites, nitrates, and PH is where it always is, 6.1). I can't find my > GH/KH test strips still so I can't give that reading. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33895	From: Alina	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)

Amber, 'Tis the season. I just went thru the same thing but because I have inverts and some other sensitive fish, I used only heat...and by golly it worked. I kept the tank at about 86-87F and it took about 5 days for the symptoms to disappear. I had about three or four fish showing the spots. By day 5-6 I noticed they were all nice and clear. In fact, today is the third day since I noticed no more spots, so I'll gradually start lowering temps. But if you use salt, that should help it clear out even better. Ray advised heat until you see no more spots, then wait three days after for good measure. Good luck. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Well apparently my tank has ick, I have started raising the temps (it's > at 82 now and I set the temp up a couple more degrees, will raise it > again at lunch), I wasn't sure how fast you should raise the temps so I > didn't want to raise it too fast. I also added about half the dosage of > salt that the box recommends, going to add more at lunch (hopefully the > water disolves the salt by then, LOL). I'm not sure if one of the new > fish passed it on, but I'm thinking I had it before I got the fish and > moved all the fish into the big tank, now that I have read over all the > symptoms. > I've test the tank several times and everything is reading 0 (ammonia, > nitrites, nitrates, and PH is where it always is, 6.1). I can't find my > GH/KH test strips still so I can't give that reading. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33896	From: Alina	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Guppies in a 10g

My niece is heading off to college so I inherited a 10 gallon tank (yeah, I thought about turning it down for, oh, like, a nanosecond) this weekend. I thought I'd do guppies. I've started cycling it. I stopped in the LFS for some supplies and one of the folks there said no more than six guppies in a 10 gal. 2 males, 4 females. That sounded about right to me, but I thought I'd ask here. Yea or Nay? Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33897	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Yet another question or two... New Tank

My 12 Gal. Eclipse tank arrived. I set it up in my office. Substarte I bought was for plants, eco- something. Looks a lot like black dirt. Think I will have to cover the 20 lbs of that with gravel... Bought some plants at Pet Smart. Sales girl was a bit of a smart a$$ if you ask me. Still I bought some plants and a rock, and some liquid plant food, that I am not sure I will need. The plants selection was awful. I think I will have to order on line. I know I want java fern, and that just attaches to stuff, no need for substrate there. I need some tall stuff to the back and medium stuff in the center. And perhaps something short for the front, or I might just add some short plastic plants. All this will make cleaning harder I am sure. Any thoughts? Question 1, should I remove the plastic pots the plants came in? I know that they have have slots in the sides, but if the are in a dirt like substrate, well I am just asking. Question 2, I can only find ammonia with suffcante, (I did not write down the word, so spelling is bad, in fact I did not make sure I could pronounce it...), anyway is that OK to use to cycle the tank? Thanks in advance Harl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33898	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Adding salt to freshwater fish tank

Yes - so as not to burn the fish! ... runnning. Seriously, I try to dilute any chemical before I add it the tank. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Charles" <alone29784@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:13 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank Interesting links Lenny. Now, if I add salt should it be dissolved first ? --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 3:40 PM Table salt is the exact same thing as "aquarium salt" that you might find in a pet store. There is a "Marine Salt" that is derived from saltwater but for treatment of fish, regular salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is all that is needed. It's best to NOT use Iodized salt but in an emergency, it's OK to use also. The plain salt that you have in your kitchen cupboard works fine for fish for treatment or in the event of livebearers, keeping it in the tank as a permanent additive. Here's a couple of articles all about salt. http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/salt. shtml and http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ articles/ article22. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Adding salt to freshwater fish tank 1.Is is alright to use Regular Table Salt, as recommended for the fish, to my freshwater tank or do I need to buy a salt product from the pet store? Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081129-0, 11/29/2008 Tested on: 11/30/2008 2:40:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33899	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)

I thought I had said I was putting the salt in tank water in a cup, but I guess I left it open and just said "hope the water disolves the salt by then" or something like that. Sorry for not clarifying, also I was going by another dose apparently (which was 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, does that work out to the same as 3 teaspoons per gallon? I'm bad with math, LOL). I haven't been adding it all at once of course, I had added a little over half the dose this morning through a 3 hour period, I will wait until late tonight to add the rest now that I know to wait. My current heater in the tank can't seem to get the temp above 83, so I'm going to get another heater today after work to help raise the temp some more. Out of curiosity what happens when you just add granules to the tank? I have done it in the past but recently read on someone's post that you should mix it with tank water first so I switched to doing it that way this last time. I have done about 45% PWC every day so far as well, I forgot to mention that. The tank is so big I wasn't sure if a 25% PWC would have much effect (on the 125 gallon tank). Thanks Lenny, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Amber, > > You should ALWAYS mix the salt in some removed tank water first and then > slowly pour it into the tank avoiding any fish and the filter intake. DO > NOT just add salt granules into the tank. Presuming you will be bringing > the salt level up to the 0.3% level (3 teaspoons per gallon), you want to > add this in 3 doses of 1 teaspoon per gallon every twelve hours to > give the > fish and nitrifying bacteria a chance to acclimate to the salt level > increases. During this same 24 hour period, you can start raising the > temperature by 2F per day until you reach the desired temperature (86F). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it) > > Well apparently my tank has ick, I have started raising the temps (it's at > 82 now and I set the temp up a couple more degrees, will raise it again at > lunch), I wasn't sure how fast you should raise the temps so I didn't want > to raise it too fast. I also added about half the dosage of salt that the > box recommends, going to add more at lunch (hopefully the water > disolves the > salt by then, LOL). I'm not sure if one of the new fish passed it on, but > I'm thinking I had it before I got the fish and moved all the fish > into the > big tank, now that I have read over all the symptoms. > I've test the tank several times and everything is reading 0 (ammonia, > nitrites, nitrates, and PH is where it always is, 6.1). I can't find my > GH/KH test strips still so I can't give that reading. > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 > Tested on: 12/1/2008 1:26:45 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33900	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter....

We were just discussing filters in another thread recently if you want to do a search in the Messages page. For an inexpensive, yet reliable canister filter, I recommend a Rena Filstar.. either an XP-1 or XP-2 for a 50G tank... depending on what kind of bioload you are planning. I haven't shopped prices lately but check the usual online sources like http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, http://www.BigAlsOnline.com, http://www.ThatFishPlace.com, http://www.MarineDepot.com and others that I'm not recalling off the top of my head. PetsMart.com used to have really competitive online prices but recently raised most of their online prices to match their retail prices... hopefully, they'll realize their poor business decision soon and go back to being competitive. I glanced at a Yahoo Shopping search for Rena Filstar XP and the lowest prices there were around $99.00 for the XP-1 and $105 (10% off sale) for the XP-2. Check the above sites for better prices than those. Another good option which is less expensive would be an AquaClear HOB (hang on back) power filter, which would be about 1/2 the price of the canister and would work well for a normally stocked tropical tank. Canisters are much better when you have large fish that produce a lot of waste since the canister filters have room for a lot more filter media. Either filter still needs to be cleaned on a weekly basis (in a fully stocked tank). Both are relatively easy to clean/maintain. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter.... I am getting a 50 gal. tank and need some advice on a filter, I want to avoid getting an undergravel filter. What kind of canister filter is good and not to expensive? I am looking at doing a freshwater tank. Also who has the best prices on them? Thanks, Jim _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 2:02:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33901	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Guppies in a 10g

I wouldn't mix sexes of livebearers in a 10G. There isn't enough room to handle the offspring. Either go with all males or all females... all males would be best as even with all females, they'll still be popping out babies, for a while, even without a male in the tank. The LFS is trying to sell you some fish that will require you to buy more tanks from them since the 10G would be quickly overcrowded. Check out my blog article on 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppies in a 10g My niece is heading off to college so I inherited a 10 gallon tank (yeah, I thought about turning it down for, oh, like, a nanosecond) this weekend. I thought I'd do guppies. I've started cycling it. I stopped in the LFS for some supplies and one of the folks there said no more than six guppies in a 10 gal. 2 males, 4 females. That sounded about right to me, but I thought I'd ask here. Yea or Nay? Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 2:06:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)

1 heaping tablespoon comes close to 5-6 teaspoons.. depending on the heap. 1 level tablespoon is equal to 3 teaspoons. For your big tank, I would suggest having at least two 1/2 sized heaters with a total wattage to provide your tank heating needs.. instead of just one big one. Adding just granules to the tank can be very harmful to a fish that might suck up those granules while foraging. The salt would irritate/burn whatever it touches on the fish or if the fish ingested the granule, it would be comparable to a human eating about a pound of pure salt... not a good thing. A 25% PWC is a 25% PWC.. regardless of the tank size. You would still be removing 25% of the water. In a 10G, it would be 2.5G. In a 125G, it would be 31G.. or 30G for simplicity. The reason I recommend 25% PWC's is doing more than that can cause osmotic stress/shock issues, pH issues, temperature issues, etc. The incoming tap water is almost never identical to the tank water as far as water chemistry and parameters go. Changing too much, too fast can change the chemistry/parameters too much, too fast, which can put fish into osmotic, pH or temperature shock. In cases where a tank has dramatically different water parameters than the source water, 10% PWC's might be in order... but in most cases, 25% PWC's are suitable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it) I thought I had said I was putting the salt in tank water in a cup, but I guess I left it open and just said "hope the water disolves the salt by then" or something like that. Sorry for not clarifying, also I was going by another dose apparently (which was 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, does that work out to the same as 3 teaspoons per gallon? I'm bad with math, LOL). I haven't been adding it all at once of course, I had added a little over half the dose this morning through a 3 hour period, I will wait until late tonight to add the rest now that I know to wait. My current heater in the tank can't seem to get the temp above 83, so I'm going to get another heater today after work to help raise the temp some more. Out of curiosity what happens when you just add granules to the tank? I have done it in the past but recently read on someone's post that you should mix it with tank water first so I switched to doing it that way this last time. I have done about 45% PWC every day so far as well, I forgot to mention that. The tank is so big I wasn't sure if a 25% PWC would have much effect (on the 125 gallon tank). Thanks Lenny, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Amber, > > You should ALWAYS mix the salt in some removed tank water first and > then slowly pour it into the tank avoiding any fish and the filter > intake. DO NOT just add salt granules into the tank. Presuming you > will be bringing the salt level up to the 0.3% level (3 teaspoons per > gallon), you want to add this in 3 doses of 1 teaspoon per gallon > every twelve hours to give the fish and nitrifying bacteria a chance > to acclimate to the salt level increases. During this same 24 hour > period, you can start raising the temperature by 2F per day until you > reach the desired temperature (86F). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it) > > Well apparently my tank has ick, I have started raising the temps > (it's at > 82 now and I set the temp up a couple more degrees, will raise it > again at lunch), I wasn't sure how fast you should raise the temps so > I didn't want to raise it too fast. I also added about half the dosage > of salt that the box recommends, going to add more at lunch (hopefully > the water disolves the salt by then, LOL). I'm not sure if one of the > new fish passed it on, but I'm thinking I had it before I got the fish > and moved all the fish into the big tank, now that I have read over > all the symptoms. > I've test the tank several times and everything is reading 0 (ammonia, > nitrites, nitrates, and PH is where it always is, 6.1). I can't find > my GH/KH test strips still so I can't give that reading. > > Amber > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 2:17:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33903	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)

I checked the temp on the tank again and I guess my heater is doing a little work ;) It's actually up to 84 (it's normally 82 if I set the heater to 80, this time I turned it up past 84 since setting the heater to 84 didn't do much but raise it to 83 from 82 over night, LOL). I would assume that with such a large volume of water that it's going to take time for it to heat it all up anyways, which is why I was going to go out and get another heater this afternoon so I don't put too much stress on the heater that's already in there ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > I thought I had said I was putting the salt in tank water in a cup, but > I guess I left it open and just said "hope the water disolves the salt > by then" or something like that. Sorry for not clarifying, also I was > going by another dose apparently (which was 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, > does that work out to the same as 3 teaspoons per gallon? I'm bad with > math, LOL). I haven't been adding it all at once of course, I had added > a little over half the dose this morning through a 3 hour period, I will > wait until late tonight to add the rest now that I know to wait. My > current heater in the tank can't seem to get the temp above 83, so I'm > going to get another heater today after work to help raise the temp some > more. > Out of curiosity what happens when you just add granules to the tank? I > have done it in the past but recently read on someone's post that you > should mix it with tank water first so I switched to doing it that way > this last time. > I have done about 45% PWC every day so far as well, I forgot to mention > that. The tank is so big I wasn't sure if a 25% PWC would have much > effect (on the 125 gallon tank). > > Thanks Lenny, > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Amber, > > > > You should ALWAYS mix the salt in some removed tank water first and then > > slowly pour it into the tank avoiding any fish and the filter intake. DO > > NOT just add salt granules into the tank. Presuming you will be bringing > > the salt level up to the 0.3% level (3 teaspoons per gallon), you > want to > > add this in 3 doses of 1 teaspoon per gallon every twelve hours to > > give the > > fish and nitrifying bacteria a chance to acclimate to the salt level > > increases. During this same 24 hour period, you can start raising the > > temperature by 2F per day until you reach the desired temperature (86F). > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:52 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it) > > > > Well apparently my tank has ick, I have started raising the temps > (it's at > > 82 now and I set the temp up a couple more degrees, will raise it > again at > > lunch), I wasn't sure how fast you should raise the temps so I > didn't want > > to raise it too fast. I also added about half the dosage of salt > that the > > box recommends, going to add more at lunch (hopefully the water > > disolves the > > salt by then, LOL). I'm not sure if one of the new fish passed it > on, but > > I'm thinking I had it before I got the fish and moved all the fish > > into the > > big tank, now that I have read over all the symptoms. > > I've test the tank several times and everything is reading 0 (ammonia, > > nitrites, nitrates, and PH is where it always is, 6.1). I can't find my > > GH/KH test strips still so I can't give that reading. > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > > Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 > > Tested on: 12/1/2008 1:26:45 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33904	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: i need help with my mollys

i put the mollys in with the guppies and they killed my male so i dont want to do that sry thanks tho ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33905	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Yet another question or two... New Tank

Ahhhh.. you must have went to Allie's PetsMart store. LOL (Just kidding Allie!) Allie is a member of this group but I'm sure she'd never be an S-A to a customer... NOT! The eco-complete, if that is what you have, does not have to be covered and a dark substrate will make your fish show up better. As far as the plain ammonia, you are correct.. you DO NOT want the kind with any perfumes or surfactants (soaps). You can get the plain ammonia at Ace Hardware stores and most other smaller hardware stores. I haven't seen it at the Big Box Home Stores. 99 cents a quart is the going price. Some grocery stores will sell it as a generic or private label ammonia but it seems more and more are going with scented ammonias. I have no clue why since the ammonia smell will over power any lemon or citrus smell anyhow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harl Myers Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:42 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Yet another question or two... New Tank My 12 Gal. Eclipse tank arrived. I set it up in my office. Substarte I bought was for plants, eco- something. Looks a lot like black dirt. Think I will have to cover the 20 lbs of that with gravel... Bought some plants at Pet Smart. Sales girl was a bit of a smart a$$ if you ask me. Still I bought some plants and a rock, and some liquid plant food, that I am not sure I will need. The plants selection was awful. I think I will have to order on line. I know I want java fern, and that just attaches to stuff, no need for substrate there. I need some tall stuff to the back and medium stuff in the center. And perhaps something short for the front, or I might just add some short plastic plants. All this will make cleaning harder I am sure. Any thoughts? Question 1, should I remove the plastic pots the plants came in? I know that they have have slots in the sides, but if the are in a dirt like substrate, well I am just asking. Question 2, I can only find ammonia with suffcante, (I did not write down the word, so spelling is bad, in fact I did not make sure I could pronounce it...), anyway is that OK to use to cycle the tank? Thanks in advance Harl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 4:33:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33906	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: what else do i need for my fish?

ok well for x mas i told my dad i wanted two 55 gallon tanks filters and heaters for both plants and things for fish to hide in what else do i need i mean i no i need thing to test the water what is a good brand and what is all that stuff called? also am i missing ne thing in portent? thanks ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33907	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?

my mollies are 3 days old would it be ok to move out of the breeder net and into a small one gallon tank just untill there a week old? ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33908	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)

How much wattage do you have now? What is your typical room temperature? 3 watts per gallon (adding all the heaters together) is usually more than enough to bring up the temp to where you would need it for normal use but if your home is kept cold, then you might need more. 3 watts per gallon is usually enough to keep a tank at tropical temps in an average house with 72F temps. 3 watts per gallon will usually raise the tanks temperature up to 10F over room temp but factors like surface agitation will cause faster loss of heat from the tank. If your room temps are 68F, then you should go for 5W or 6W per gallon to bring it up to the 86F range.. but you probably wouldn't need that much wattage per gallon for normal purposes so you could remove the extra heater for use in another tank if needed for treatment purposes or as a spare heater in the event of a failure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it) Well apparently my heater isn't doing the trick to keep the temps up, so I'm going to go to the LFS after work today and get another heater to put in the tank (would like a 400 watt if they have one). I'm going to try the heat/salt trick instead of buying medicine since a few people tried it recently and it seemed to work (the heat trick at least, not sure about salt). Will it work faster if I use both? I don't think I have anything in my tank that's too sensitive to salt. I've lost a gourami and a glofish this morning, but I only raised the temps last night and added salt this morning. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > Well apparently my tank has ick, I have started raising the temps > (it's at 82 now and I set the temp up a couple more degrees, will > raise it again at lunch), I wasn't sure how fast you should raise the > temps so I didn't want to raise it too fast. I also added about half > the dosage of salt that the box recommends, going to add more at lunch > (hopefully the water disolves the salt by then, LOL). I'm not sure if > one of the new fish passed it on, but I'm thinking I had it before I > got the fish and moved all the fish into the big tank, now that I have > read over all the symptoms. > I've test the tank several times and everything is reading 0 (ammonia, > nitrites, nitrates, and PH is where it always is, 6.1). I can't find > my GH/KH test strips still so I can't give that reading. > > Amber > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 5:52:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33909	From: Venus	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Blood Parrot tank mates??

I was wondering what can I put in with a couple small blood parrots? Can I have other cichlids? Right now the two blood parrots are less then about 3". They are currently in a 55 gallon tank, but as they get larger will be rehomed into a 150 gallon. Thanks Venus

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33910	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter....

Lenny, Thanks for the advice and sites to check out. It's been ~25 yrs. since I had a tank, well I had a few 29's and a 50 high boy. I want to start the hobby up again, and the canister filter looks like a great way to have a more natural looking tank then having the undergravel filters in place. Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > We were just discussing filters in another thread recently if you want to do > a search in the Messages page. For an inexpensive, yet reliable canister > filter, I recommend a Rena Filstar.. either an XP-1 or XP-2 for a 50G > tank... depending on what kind of bioload you are planning. I haven't > shopped prices lately but check the usual online sources like > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, http://www.BigAlsOnline.com, > http://www.ThatFishPlace.com, http://www.MarineDepot.com and others that I'm > not recalling off the top of my head. PetsMart.com used to have really > competitive online prices but recently raised most of their online prices to > match their retail prices... hopefully, they'll realize their poor business > decision soon and go back to being competitive. I glanced at a Yahoo > Shopping search for Rena Filstar XP and the lowest prices there were around > $99.00 for the XP-1 and $105 (10% off sale) for the XP-2. Check the above > sites for better prices than those. > > Another good option which is less expensive would be an AquaClear HOB (hang > on back) power filter, which would be about 1/2 the price of the canister > and would work well for a normally stocked tropical tank. > > Canisters are much better when you have large fish that produce a lot of > waste since the canister filters have room for a lot more filter media. > Either filter still needs to be cleaned on a weekly basis (in a fully > stocked tank). Both are relatively easy to clean/maintain. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter.... > > I am getting a 50 gal. tank and need some advice on a filter, I want to > avoid getting an undergravel filter. What kind of canister filter is good > and not to expensive? I am looking at doing a freshwater tank. > Also who has the best prices on them? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 > Tested on: 12/1/2008 2:02:33 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

\\Steve//, Your Google search for the history did not work for all of us IE users. I was surprised to see Firefox and Mozilla included in the search's URL, even with the TinyURL. Hmmmm.. actually I take it back. I just did my own Google search on - history of activated carbon - and my search URL also includes the words Firefox and Mozilla so I'm not sure why your search link didn't work... nor am I sure why those terms are in a Google search URL. A Google search of for a reason did not come up with anything definitive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon On Thanksgiving Day, my brother-in-law was joking, at least I think he was joking, about missing "The History of Activated Carbon", which immediately followed "The History of Synthetic Rubber" on TV. He is an organic chemist, so he would, at least, have a peripheral interest in such shows. So, anyhow, to chill his smugness over his little joke, I had a few minutes today to search the Web and found several sites covering the history of activated carbon, as well as other aspects of the substance. I did run across this PowerPoint presentation on activated carbon that may be of interest to the people here. However, to forewarn you, you will need to bear with one slide with a very brief history of activated carbon <g>. www.aqualitysymposium.org/ppts/physicalphysiocemprocesses/CHOROMANSKI%20 activated%20carbo.ppt TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/6z3e9l <http://tinyurl.com/6z3e9l> If you are truly curious, here is the search I did on Google for the history, and it will turn up a lot of other interesting stuff as well: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mo> &client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mo <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mo> &client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mo> zilla:en-US:official&q=%22Activated+carbon%22+history&start=0&sa=N TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/663n7q <http://tinyurl.com/663n7q> \\Steve// _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 7:30:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Mosquito fish (Gambusia affinis) are from the same family as guppies and other Poeciliidae livebearers. http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Speciessummary.php?id=3215 http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/livebearer_stats/stats_livebearers1f.ht ml You should really avoid female livebearers since you do not have the tank space necessary for raising fry... or just leave the fish in the main tank so the adults will eat all of the fry.. although a couple might hide well enough to survive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? im haveing such a bad day so far my male guppy got killed by the mollys and i now jus found out (i feel like such a retard fornot noing this but) my teacher told my the fish she gave me werntguppys there mosquito fish i was like o and she gave me a few more and well guess what the ones really big and its a girl ima take a wild guess and say shes gonna have frys no one no ne thing about this fish at all i never herd of them or ne thing gah my days pretty sucks but plez help me if u no ne thing about them there live bears all so coulz u cross breed them with a guppy? there about the same size and breed the same way? thanks ~`~LOW~`~ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 7:36:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33913	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

_http://www.pollutiononline.com/article.mvc/Calgon-Carbon-To-Be-Featured-On-Th e-History-C-0001?VNETCOOKIE=NO_ (http://www.pollutiononline.com/article.mvc/Calgon-Carbon-To-Be-Featured-On-The-History-C-0001?VNETCOOKIE=NO) **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33914	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?

55G starter kits from Walmart run around $125.00 and include everything (tank, lighting, heater, filter) except the stand and gravel. You can order an API Master Test Kit from Walmart.com and have it delivered free at your local store so the total price will only be around $17.00. This kit will last a long time.. a year or more. You can get pea gravel in bulk from a landscape company or maybe your Walmart Garden Center and it's a lot cheaper than "aquarium gravel"... just like regular salt is a lot cheaper than "aquarium salt" even though they are the same thing. You can build your own stand for $20.00. I have detailed instructions on my blog including nearly step-by-step photos for the stand that I built for my 65G tank. The only difference is a 55G has a 48" x 12" footprint where my 65G has a 48" x 18" footprint. As others have said, check FreeCycle.org and Craigslist.org for the local sites for your area you can find free or used stuff on those two sites. You can also post your own "Wanted" ads on both of them sites. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] what else do i need for my fish? ok well for x mas i told my dad i wanted two 55 gallon tanks filters and heaters for both plants and things for fish to hide in what else do i need i mean i no i need thing to test the water what is a good brand and what is all that stuff called? also am i missing ne thing in portent? thanks ~`~LOW~`~ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 7:43:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33915	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?

Gravel for the bottom. A stand for the tanks, come to mind. Tanks will probably come wit lids and lights, but do not count on it for sure... On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:21 PM, theyxcallxmexl <theyxcallxmexl@...>wrote: > ok well for x mas > i told my dad i wanted two 55 gallon tanks > filters and heaters for both > plants and things for fish to hide in > what else do i need i mean > i no i need thing to test the water > what is a good brand and what is all that stuff called? > also am i missing ne thing in portent? > thanks > ~`~LOW~`~ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33916	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?

Yes - you are missing a lot of things that are important. In a message dated 12/1/2008 6:23:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, theyxcallxmexl@... writes: ok well for x mas i told my dad i wanted two 55 gallon tanks filters and heaters for both plants and things for fish to hide in what else do i need i mean i no i need thing to test the water what is a good brand and what is all that stuff called? also am i missing ne thing in portent? thanks ~`~LOW~`~ **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33917	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

_http://shop.history.com/detail.php?p=70272&SESSID=f294fdfbb12e4256d8eb5f789ee 948a3&v=Al_ (http://shop.history.com/detail.php?p=70272&SESSID=f294fdfbb12e4256d8eb5f789ee948a3&v=Al) **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33918	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?

ok well i thought gravel and lids and lights were a given lol i meant for testing water and chemaicals that stuff mainly thanks for you help tho ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33919	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?

so would it be cheaper to by two brand new 55g starts at wal mart then bying to 55g jus tank nothing else for 60 and then haveing to by the heater and pumps?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33920	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

ya i told my dad for x mas to get me two 55 gallon tanks and all the stuff need to go with im 100% sure ill get atleast one of the 55 the other im like 80% sure ill get it but one i do ill have enough room for the fish to breed and i put the baby mollyes in a 1 gallon jus for a week then ima give them away and that what ima do with the mosqueto fishy as well

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33921	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it)

Okay thanks for the info Lenny. I will stick to 25% PWC's then, I just wasn't sure if I should take more out due to the ick. After the initial dosing of salt this morning and upping the temp a couple degrees the fish are perking up a little already. I bought a 2nd 300 watt heater (thought I had a 150 but it turns out that I had a 300 watt already, so now I have 2x300 watt heaters in the 125 gallon tank to keep the heat at a set temp). I put the 2nd heater in and just left it set to 80 for now, since the tank has already gone up 2 degrees today. I will change the setting on it tomorrow to up the temp a couple more degrees. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > 1 heaping tablespoon comes close to 5-6 teaspoons.. depending on the heap. > 1 level tablespoon is equal to 3 teaspoons. > > For your big tank, I would suggest having at least two 1/2 sized heaters > with a total wattage to provide your tank heating needs.. instead of just > one big one. > > Adding just granules to the tank can be very harmful to a fish that might > suck up those granules while foraging. The salt would irritate/burn > whatever it touches on the fish or if the fish ingested the granule, it > would be comparable to a human eating about a pound of pure salt... not a > good thing. > > A 25% PWC is a 25% PWC.. regardless of the tank size. You would still be > removing 25% of the water. In a 10G, it would be 2.5G. In a 125G, it would > be 31G.. or 30G for simplicity. > > The reason I recommend 25% PWC's is doing more than that can cause osmotic > stress/shock issues, pH issues, temperature issues, etc. The incoming tap > water is almost never identical to the tank water as far as water > chemistry > and parameters go. Changing too much, too fast can change the > chemistry/parameters too much, too fast, which can put fish into > osmotic, pH > or temperature shock. In cases where a tank has dramatically different > water parameters than the source water, 10% PWC's might be in order... but > in most cases, 25% PWC's are suitable. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it) > > I thought I had said I was putting the salt in tank water in a cup, but I > guess I left it open and just said "hope the water disolves the salt by > then" or something like that. Sorry for not clarifying, also I was > going by > another dose apparently (which was 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, does that > work out to the same as 3 teaspoons per gallon? I'm bad with math, LOL). I > haven't been adding it all at once of course, I had added a little > over half > the dose this morning through a 3 hour period, I will wait until late > tonight to add the rest now that I know to wait. My current heater in the > tank can't seem to get the temp above 83, so I'm going to get another > heater > today after work to help raise the temp some more. > Out of curiosity what happens when you just add granules to the tank? > I have > done it in the past but recently read on someone's post that you > should mix > it with tank water first so I switched to doing it that way this last > time. > I have done about 45% PWC every day so far as well, I forgot to mention > that. The tank is so big I wasn't sure if a 25% PWC would have much effect > (on the 125 gallon tank). > > Thanks Lenny, > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Amber, > > > > You should ALWAYS mix the salt in some removed tank water first and > > then slowly pour it into the tank avoiding any fish and the filter > > intake. DO NOT just add salt granules into the tank. Presuming you > > will be bringing the salt level up to the 0.3% level (3 teaspoons per > > gallon), you want to add this in 3 doses of 1 teaspoon per gallon > > every twelve hours to give the fish and nitrifying bacteria a chance > > to acclimate to the salt level increases. During this same 24 hour > > period, you can start raising the temperature by 2F per day until you > > reach the desired temperature (86F). > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:52 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick or Ich (however you want to spell it) > > > > Well apparently my tank has ick, I have started raising the temps > > (it's at > > 82 now and I set the temp up a couple more degrees, will raise it > > again at lunch), I wasn't sure how fast you should raise the temps so > > I didn't want to raise it too fast. I also added about half the dosage > > of salt that the box recommends, going to add more at lunch (hopefully > > the water disolves the salt by then, LOL). I'm not sure if one of the > > new fish passed it on, but I'm thinking I had it before I got the fish > > and moved all the fish into the big tank, now that I have read over > > all the symptoms. > > I've test the tank several times and everything is reading 0 (ammonia, > > nitrites, nitrates, and PH is where it always is, 6.1). I can't find > > my GH/KH test strips still so I can't give that reading. > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 > Tested on: 12/1/2008 2:17:45 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33922	From: harry perry	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: what else do i need for my fish?

In the long run it might be cheaper. Walmart is not going to be the best equipment. More important, you are going to check Lenny's blog on the right way to start up a tank, right?. Harry --- On Mon, 12/1/08, theyxcallxmexl <theyxcallxmexl@...> wrote: From: theyxcallxmexl <theyxcallxmexl@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: what else do i need for my fish? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 8:49 PM so would it be cheaper to by two brand new 55g starts at wal mart then bying to 55g jus tank nothing else for 60 and then haveing to by the heater and pumps? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33923	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Yet another question or two... New Tank

Perhaps it's a gimmick to get people to buy their ammonia over other ammonia brands ;)? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ahhhh.. you must have went to Allie's PetsMart store. LOL (Just kidding > Allie!) Allie is a member of this group but I'm sure she'd never be an S-A > to a customer... NOT! > > The eco-complete, if that is what you have, does not have to be > covered and > a dark substrate will make your fish show up better. > > As far as the plain ammonia, you are correct.. you DO NOT want the > kind with > any perfumes or surfactants (soaps). You can get the plain ammonia at Ace > Hardware stores and most other smaller hardware stores. I haven't seen it > at the Big Box Home Stores. 99 cents a quart is the going price. Some > grocery stores will sell it as a generic or private label ammonia but it > seems more and more are going with scented ammonias. I have no clue why > since the ammonia smell will over power any lemon or citrus smell anyhow. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Harl Myers > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:42 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Yet another question or two... New Tank > > My 12 Gal. Eclipse tank arrived. I set it up in my office. > > Substarte I bought was for plants, eco- something. Looks a lot like black > dirt. Think I will have to cover the 20 lbs of that with gravel... > > Bought some plants at Pet Smart. Sales girl was a bit of a smart a$$ > if you > ask me. Still I bought some plants and a rock, and some liquid plant food, > that I am not sure I will need. The plants selection was awful. I think I > will have to order on line. I know I want java fern, and that just > attaches > to stuff, no need for substrate there. I need some tall stuff to the back > and medium stuff in the center. And perhaps something short for the front, > or I might just add some short plastic plants. All this will make cleaning > harder I am sure. Any thoughts? > > Question 1, should I remove the plastic pots the plants came in? I > know that > they have have slots in the sides, but if the are in a dirt like > substrate, > well I am just asking. > > Question 2, I can only find ammonia with suffcante, (I did not write down > the word, so spelling is bad, in fact I did not make sure I could > pronounce > it...), anyway is that OK to use to cycle the tank? > > Thanks in advance > Harl > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 > Tested on: 12/1/2008 4:33:55 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33924	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter....

You can almost get 2 of the aquaclear HOB filters (or more depending on where to buy them) for the price of 1 canister filter. I'd almost go with 2 of the aquaclear HOB filters myself after having a canister filter (a little easier to clean the aquaclear's compared to my magnum canister filter). Also the Aquaclear doesn't have to have anything replaced for the media (unless you use carbon), it also has a sponge to help grow bacteria, some of the canister filters don't come with anything in them to promote biological activity (have to buy it extra). I'd go with a rena filstar though if you're going to do a canister, I'm not sure how they work for biological goodies, but they are easy and user friendly to clean (I watched at the LFS to see, since I was interested in one). Amber Jim Pat. wrote: > > Lenny, > > Thanks for the advice and sites to check out. It's been ~25 yrs. > since I had a tank, well I had a few 29's and a 50 high boy. I want > to start the hobby up again, and the canister filter looks like a > great way to have a more natural looking tank then having the > undergravel filters in place. > > Jim > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > We were just discussing filters in another thread recently if you > want to do > > a search in the Messages page. For an inexpensive, yet reliable > canister > > filter, I recommend a Rena Filstar.. either an XP-1 or XP-2 for a > 50G > > tank... depending on what kind of bioload you are planning. I > haven't > > shopped prices lately but check the usual online sources like > > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> > http://www.BigAlsOnline.com, <http://www.BigAlsOnline.com,> > > http://www.ThatFishPlace.com, <http://www.ThatFishPlace.com,> > http://www.MarineDepot.com <http://www.MarineDepot.com> and others > that I'm > > not recalling off the top of my head. PetsMart.com used to have > really > > competitive online prices but recently raised most of their online > prices to > > match their retail prices... hopefully, they'll realize their poor > business > > decision soon and go back to being competitive. I glanced at a > Yahoo > > Shopping search for Rena Filstar XP and the lowest prices there > were around > > $99.00 for the XP-1 and $105 (10% off sale) for the XP-2. Check > the above > > sites for better prices than those. > > > > Another good option which is less expensive would be an AquaClear > HOB (hang > > on back) power filter, which would be about 1/2 the price of the > canister > > and would work well for a normally stocked tropical tank. > > > > Canisters are much better when you have large fish that produce a > lot of > > waste since the canister filters have room for a lot more filter > media. > > Either filter still needs to be cleaned on a weekly basis (in a > fully > > stocked tank). Both are relatively easy to clean/maintain. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:35 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting a 50 gal., need some help of > filter.... > > > > I am getting a 50 gal. tank and need some advice on a filter, I > want to > > avoid getting an undergravel filter. What kind of canister filter > is good > > and not to expensive? I am looking at doing a freshwater tank. > > Also who has the best prices on them? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 > > Tested on: 12/1/2008 2:02:33 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33925	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter....

Rena Filstar's come with all of the filter media needed to get started. Large pore and small pore sponge blocks, chemical filter pack (save it for when needed), micro polishing pad. Instead of the chemical filter pack, I add two layers of 1" thick blue/white poly-pad. I buy this in large sheets for a couple of bucks and cut it to size for my various filters. It's available at DrsFosterSmith.com and other outlets. Other folks will add bio-balls or other permanent biological filtration but the sponges and poly-pads will also work for biological and mechanical filtration. I do use the biomax that comes with AquaClears.. since it was free.. but I haven't bought any of that stuff yet. Amber's right though.. unless you are dead set on getting a canister, you could get two of the AC's for less than a canister but then you'd have the extra HOB's hanging on the back on your tank(s). The Rena Filstar is just as easy to maintain as an AC.. except it's bigger. I have a filter profile on the Rena Filstar on my blog and I'm pretty sure I go into all the details of how I clean mine... but I haven't read it in a while. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Getting a 50 gal., need some help of filter.... You can almost get 2 of the aquaclear HOB filters (or more depending on where to buy them) for the price of 1 canister filter. I'd almost go with 2 of the aquaclear HOB filters myself after having a canister filter (a little easier to clean the aquaclear's compared to my magnum canister filter). Also the Aquaclear doesn't have to have anything replaced for the media (unless you use carbon), it also has a sponge to help grow bacteria, some of the canister filters don't come with anything in them to promote biological activity (have to buy it extra). I'd go with a rena filstar though if you're going to do a canister, I'm not sure how they work for biological goodies, but they are easy and user friendly to clean (I watched at the LFS to see, since I was interested in one). Amber Jim Pat. wrote: > > Lenny, > > Thanks for the advice and sites to check out. It's been ~25 yrs. > since I had a tank, well I had a few 29's and a 50 high boy. I want to > start the hobby up again, and the canister filter looks like a great > way to have a more natural looking tank then having the undergravel > filters in place. > > Jim > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > We were just discussing filters in another thread recently if you > want to do > > a search in the Messages page. For an inexpensive, yet reliable > canister > > filter, I recommend a Rena Filstar.. either an XP-1 or XP-2 for a > 50G > > tank... depending on what kind of bioload you are planning. I > haven't > > shopped prices lately but check the usual online sources like > > http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> > > <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com, <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com,> > > > http://www.BigAlsOnline.com, <http://www.BigAlsOnline.com,> > <http://www.BigAlsOnline.com, <http://www.BigAlsOnline.com, <http://www.BigAlsOnline.com,> > > > > http://www.ThatFishPlace.com, <http://www.ThatFishPlace.com,> > > <http://www.ThatFishPlace.com, <http://www.ThatFishPlace.com, <http://www.ThatFishPlace.com,> > > > http://www.MarineDepot.com <http://www.MarineDepot.com> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com <http://www.MarineDepot.com <http://www.MarineDepot.com> > > and others > that I'm > > not recalling off the top of my head. PetsMart.com used to have > really > > competitive online prices but recently raised most of their online > prices to > > match their retail prices... hopefully, they'll realize their poor > business > > decision soon and go back to being competitive. I glanced at a > Yahoo > > Shopping search for Rena Filstar XP and the lowest prices there > were around > > $99.00 for the XP-1 and $105 (10% off sale) for the XP-2. Check > the above > > sites for better prices than those. > > > > Another good option which is less expensive would be an AquaClear > HOB (hang > > on back) power filter, which would be about 1/2 the price of the > canister > > and would work well for a normally stocked tropical tank. > > > > Canisters are much better when you have large fish that produce a > lot of > > waste since the canister filters have room for a lot more filter > media. > > Either filter still needs to be cleaned on a weekly basis (in a > fully > > stocked tank). Both are relatively easy to clean/maintain. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:35 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting a 50 gal., need some help of > filter.... > > > > I am getting a 50 gal. tank and need some advice on a filter, I > want to > > avoid getting an undergravel filter. What kind of canister filter > is good > > and not to expensive? I am looking at doing a freshwater tank. > > Also who has the best prices on them? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 8:20:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33926	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 gallo

Today while checking to see if I had any new dead fish due to the ick outbreak, I turned around too fast and my big butt decided to knock the cup of water/salt mix off of the table onto the floor. So I had to guess at about how much salt had disolved and ended up on the floor, LOL. Between the PWC's and the salt doses it's hard enough to keep track of how much salt is actually in the tank. I have a salt tester for a saltwater tank will that tell me how much salt I have in it and does anyone know how much I should have in it testing it with a refractometer? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33927	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

Just one thing to say... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A As far as the salt and refractometer... 3 teaspoons per gallon is equal to 3 ppT (parts per thousand). This site http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php the second image down (about 10 paragraphs or an inch on the side scroll bar) has a graph showing from 0 ppT to 35 ppT and that the salinity for 3 ppT would be between 1.333 and 1.334. I'm not sure how accurate your refractometer is. Lenny Vasbinder http://goldlenny.blogspot.com --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Today while checking to see if I had any new dead fish due to the ick > outbreak, I turned around too fast and my big butt decided to knock the > cup of water/salt mix off of the table onto the floor. So I had to guess > at about how much salt had disolved and ended up on the floor, LOL. > Between the PWC's and the salt doses it's hard enough to keep track of > how much salt is actually in the tank. I have a salt tester for a > saltwater tank will that tell me how much salt I have in it and does > anyone know how much I should have in it testing it with a refractometer? > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33928	From: Lisa	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Shouldn't have gone there...

Does anyone ever get that feeling that you wished you'd never gone into your LFS cause you had higher priorities for things to buy? Well good news is, that I got the things that I needed bad news? I also came home with other less important impulse buys. First of all, I looked at the tank full of pretty male and female guppies, then the tank full of dwarf goramis. Thankfully managing to resist buying any cause the tank is still cycling. But, I did however come home with a double gang valve, an airline, and a flexible airstone. Except I can't work out how to connect the airstone to the gangvalve without disconnecting my U/G filter's uplift tubes. And I (stupidly) cut the new airline thinking I had it all worked out. So now I have to go buy more airline, and probably another powerhead (airpump)! Grrrr! Not happy. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33929	From: harry perry	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Shouldn't have gone there.../Lisa

If you had a HOB filter you wouldn't need the air stone. I don't have airstones in any of my tanks (5). However I always run HOB filters. Harry --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Shouldn't have gone there... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 10:09 PM Does anyone ever get that feeling that you wished you'd never gone into your LFS cause you had higher priorities for things to buy? Well good news is, that I got the things that I needed�bad news? I also came home with other less important impulse buys. First of all, I looked at the tank full of pretty male and female guppies, then the tank full of dwarf goramis. Thankfully managing to resist buying any cause the tank is still cycling. But, I did however come home with a double gang valve, an airline, and a flexible airstone. Except I can't work out how to connect the airstone to the gangvalve without disconnecting my U/G filter's uplift tubes. And I (stupidly) cut the new airline thinking I had it all worked out. So now I have to go buy more airline, and probably another powerhead (airpump)! Grrrr! Not happy. Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33930	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

My refractometer is not that great apparently... it doesn't go to a small enough scale to help me in this case. Oh well. Is there some other way I can tell how much I have in the tank without having to PWC to get it back to 0? LOL. Amber goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > Just one thing to say... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > > As far as the salt and refractometer... 3 teaspoons per gallon is equal > to 3 ppT (parts per thousand). > > This site http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> the > second image down (about 10 paragraphs or an inch on the side scroll > bar) has a graph showing from 0 ppT to 35 ppT and that the salinity for > 3 ppT would be between 1.333 and 1.334. I'm not sure how accurate your > refractometer is. > > Lenny Vasbinder > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Today while checking to see if I had any new dead fish due to the ick > > outbreak, I turned around too fast and my big butt decided to knock > the > > cup of water/salt mix off of the table onto the floor. So I had to > guess > > at about how much salt had disolved and ended up on the floor, LOL. > > Between the PWC's and the salt doses it's hard enough to keep track > of > > how much salt is actually in the tank. I have a salt tester for a > > saltwater tank will that tell me how much salt I have in it and does > > anyone know how much I should have in it testing it with a > refractometer? > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33931	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

Whew.. no clue.. but if you do PWC's with 0.3% salt (3 teaspoons per gallon) already added to the PWC water, that will bring it up or down to the 0.3% level. You could make three separate glasses of 0.1% salt water, 0.2% salt water and 0.3% salt water and taste the tank water and compare them to the known levels in the glasses...JUST KIDDING.. lol.. but maybe hubby will??? Fortunately, with a 0.3% level, you're talking 3 teaspoons per gallon. Is this for your 125G or 55G... regardless, we're talking a LOT of salt... 375 teaspoons or 165 teaspoons respectively. If you can guesstimate where you are now for the total number of teaspoons in the tank... whether it be 30 teaspoons, 50 teaspoons, 75 teaspoons, etc., deduct this figure from the total that you need to add and then take that remaining figure and complete dosing to that level. For example, on the 125G.. which I think is the Ich tank, if you guessed wrong at 75 teaspoons when it was really only 30 teaspoons, you'll add another 300 teaspoons and end up with 330 teaspoons instead of 375 teaspoons.... a negligible 10% difference. Same if you guess 30 and you really have 75... still only a 10% difference. This would mean that you would end up with either a 0.27% or a 0.33% level.. either is fine. And the third option is that you guess right and end up right on the mark. How did you like the YouTube? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 gallon tank..... My refractometer is not that great apparently... it doesn't go to a small enough scale to help me in this case. Oh well. Is there some other way I can tell how much I have in the tank without having to PWC to get it back to 0? LOL. Amber goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > Just one thing to say... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > > > As far as the salt and refractometer... 3 teaspoons per gallon is > equal to 3 ppT (parts per thousand). > > This site http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > the second > image down (about 10 paragraphs or an inch on the side scroll > bar) has a graph showing from 0 ppT to 35 ppT and that the salinity > for > 3 ppT would be between 1.333 and 1.334. I'm not sure how accurate your > refractometer is. > > Lenny Vasbinder > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Today while checking to see if I had any new dead fish due to the > > ick outbreak, I turned around too fast and my big butt decided to > > knock > the > > cup of water/salt mix off of the table onto the floor. So I had to > guess > > at about how much salt had disolved and ended up on the floor, LOL. > > Between the PWC's and the salt doses it's hard enough to keep track > of > > how much salt is actually in the tank. I have a salt tester for a > > saltwater tank will that tell me how much salt I have in it and does > > anyone know how much I should have in it testing it with a > refractometer? > > > > Amber > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 10:15:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33932	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

Oh and sorry I forgot to tell you, the 55 gallon is currently empty. I was considering getting it up and running as soon as I get an aquaclear filter (110), gonna add that to the 125 gallon tank and put the eheim on my 55 gallon instead. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Whew.. no clue.. but if you do PWC's with 0.3% salt (3 teaspoons per > gallon) > already added to the PWC water, that will bring it up or down to the 0.3% > level. You could make three separate glasses of 0.1% salt water, 0.2% salt > water and 0.3% salt water and taste the tank water and compare them to the > known levels in the glasses...JUST KIDDING.. lol.. but maybe hubby will??? > > Fortunately, with a 0.3% level, you're talking 3 teaspoons per gallon. Is > this for your 125G or 55G... regardless, we're talking a LOT of > salt... 375 > teaspoons or 165 teaspoons respectively. If you can guesstimate where you > are now for the total number of teaspoons in the tank... whether it be 30 > teaspoons, 50 teaspoons, 75 teaspoons, etc., deduct this figure from the > total that you need to add and then take that remaining figure and > complete > dosing to that level. For example, on the 125G.. which I think is the Ich > tank, if you guessed wrong at 75 teaspoons when it was really only 30 > teaspoons, you'll add another 300 teaspoons and end up with 330 teaspoons > instead of 375 teaspoons.... a negligible 10% difference. Same if you > guess > 30 and you really have 75... still only a 10% difference. This would mean > that you would end up with either a 0.27% or a 0.33% level.. either is > fine. > And the third option is that you guess right and end up right on the mark. > > How did you like the YouTube? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of > the doses in a 125 gallon tank..... > > My refractometer is not that great apparently... it doesn't go to a small > enough scale to help me in this case. Oh well. > Is there some other way I can tell how much I have in the tank without > having to PWC to get it back to 0? LOL. > > Amber > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > Just one thing to say... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A>> > > > > > As far as the salt and refractometer... 3 teaspoons per gallon is > > equal to 3 ppT (parts per thousand). > > > > This site http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php>> > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php>> > the second > > image down (about 10 paragraphs or an inch on the side scroll > > bar) has a graph showing from 0 ppT to 35 ppT and that the salinity > > for > > 3 ppT would be between 1.333 and 1.334. I'm not sure how accurate your > > refractometer is. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Today while checking to see if I had any new dead fish due to the > > > ick outbreak, I turned around too fast and my big butt decided to > > > knock > > the > > > cup of water/salt mix off of the table onto the floor. So I had to > > guess > > > at about how much salt had disolved and ended up on the floor, LOL. > > > Between the PWC's and the salt doses it's hard enough to keep track > > of > > > how much salt is actually in the tank. I have a salt tester for a > > > saltwater tank will that tell me how much salt I have in it and does > > > anyone know how much I should have in it testing it with a > > refractometer? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 > Tested on: 12/1/2008 10:15:06 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33933	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

Okay that was way confusing, but I think I'm close to the right amount... I spilt half the glass on the floor and I had just added fresh water to the salt, so I couldn't have lost much that had been disolved. I added about half of what was in the glass at the time back to the glass and have it disolving again. The refractometer doesn't even read anywhere close to 1% (it goes from 1-10 no dashes or dots in between). I also don't think the hubby is going to test taste salt water for me, and I'm not really wanting to do it either, LOL. Also, loved the youtube video ;) Hubby just walked off, not so sure he enjoyed it as much as I did, but I remember singing the song at one point in my life, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Whew.. no clue.. but if you do PWC's with 0.3% salt (3 teaspoons per > gallon) > already added to the PWC water, that will bring it up or down to the 0.3% > level. You could make three separate glasses of 0.1% salt water, 0.2% salt > water and 0.3% salt water and taste the tank water and compare them to the > known levels in the glasses...JUST KIDDING.. lol.. but maybe hubby will??? > > Fortunately, with a 0.3% level, you're talking 3 teaspoons per gallon. Is > this for your 125G or 55G... regardless, we're talking a LOT of > salt... 375 > teaspoons or 165 teaspoons respectively. If you can guesstimate where you > are now for the total number of teaspoons in the tank... whether it be 30 > teaspoons, 50 teaspoons, 75 teaspoons, etc., deduct this figure from the > total that you need to add and then take that remaining figure and > complete > dosing to that level. For example, on the 125G.. which I think is the Ich > tank, if you guessed wrong at 75 teaspoons when it was really only 30 > teaspoons, you'll add another 300 teaspoons and end up with 330 teaspoons > instead of 375 teaspoons.... a negligible 10% difference. Same if you > guess > 30 and you really have 75... still only a 10% difference. This would mean > that you would end up with either a 0.27% or a 0.33% level.. either is > fine. > And the third option is that you guess right and end up right on the mark. > > How did you like the YouTube? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of > the doses in a 125 gallon tank..... > > My refractometer is not that great apparently... it doesn't go to a small > enough scale to help me in this case. Oh well. > Is there some other way I can tell how much I have in the tank without > having to PWC to get it back to 0? LOL. > > Amber > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > Just one thing to say... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A>> > > > > > As far as the salt and refractometer... 3 teaspoons per gallon is > > equal to 3 ppT (parts per thousand). > > > > This site http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php>> > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php>> > the second > > image down (about 10 paragraphs or an inch on the side scroll > > bar) has a graph showing from 0 ppT to 35 ppT and that the salinity > > for > > 3 ppT would be between 1.333 and 1.334. I'm not sure how accurate your > > refractometer is. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Today while checking to see if I had any new dead fish due to the > > > ick outbreak, I turned around too fast and my big butt decided to > > > knock > > the > > > cup of water/salt mix off of the table onto the floor. So I had to > > guess > > > at about how much salt had disolved and ended up on the floor, LOL. > > > Between the PWC's and the salt doses it's hard enough to keep track > > of > > > how much salt is actually in the tank. I have a salt tester for a > > > saltwater tank will that tell me how much salt I have in it and does > > > anyone know how much I should have in it testing it with a > > refractometer? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 > Tested on: 12/1/2008 10:15:06 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33934	From: pomlady101	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: fish that can live in harmony together?:

Is there anywhere that can tell you groups of fish that would go well together? I am getting a 50 to 75 gallon next year and want all fish that will get along and like the same conditions. I have looked around a bit and will have lots of time but just wondered if there are some people here who know any sites with this topic. thanks Erin B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33935	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Aquarium

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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33936	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

Rapidly stirring it will make it dissolve faster. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 gallon tank..... Okay that was way confusing, but I think I'm close to the right amount... I spilt half the glass on the floor and I had just added fresh water to the salt, so I couldn't have lost much that had been disolved. I added about half of what was in the glass at the time back to the glass and have it disolving again. The refractometer doesn't even read anywhere close to 1% (it goes from 1-10 no dashes or dots in between). I also don't think the hubby is going to test taste salt water for me, and I'm not really wanting to do it either, LOL. Also, loved the youtube video ;) Hubby just walked off, not so sure he enjoyed it as much as I did, but I remember singing the song at one point in my life, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Whew.. no clue.. but if you do PWC's with 0.3% salt (3 teaspoons per > gallon) > already added to the PWC water, that will bring it up or down to the > 0.3% level. You could make three separate glasses of 0.1% salt water, > 0.2% salt water and 0.3% salt water and taste the tank water and > compare them to the known levels in the glasses...JUST KIDDING.. lol.. but maybe hubby will??? > > Fortunately, with a 0.3% level, you're talking 3 teaspoons per gallon. > Is this for your 125G or 55G... regardless, we're talking a LOT of > salt... 375 teaspoons or 165 teaspoons respectively. If you can > guesstimate where you are now for the total number of teaspoons in the > tank... whether it be 30 teaspoons, 50 teaspoons, 75 teaspoons, etc., > deduct this figure from the total that you need to add and then take > that remaining figure and complete dosing to that level. For example, > on the 125G.. which I think is the Ich tank, if you guessed wrong at > 75 teaspoons when it was really only 30 teaspoons, you'll add another > 300 teaspoons and end up with 330 teaspoons instead of 375 > teaspoons.... a negligible 10% difference. Same if you guess 30 and > you really have 75... still only a 10% difference. This would mean > that you would end up with either a 0.27% or a 0.33% level.. either is > fine. > And the third option is that you guess right and end up right on the mark. > > How did you like the YouTube? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep > track of the doses in a 125 gallon tank..... > > My refractometer is not that great apparently... it doesn't go to a > small enough scale to help me in this case. Oh well. > Is there some other way I can tell how much I have in the tank without > having to PWC to get it back to 0? LOL. > > Amber > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > Just one thing to say... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> >> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB53M1kGM3A> >> > > > > > As far as the salt and refractometer... 3 teaspoons per gallon is > > equal to 3 ppT (parts per thousand). > > > > This site http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> >> > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php > <http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php> >> > the second > > image down (about 10 paragraphs or an inch on the side scroll > > bar) has a graph showing from 0 ppT to 35 ppT and that the salinity > > for > > 3 ppT would be between 1.333 and 1.334. I'm not sure how accurate > > your refractometer is. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > >> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Today while checking to see if I had any new dead fish due to the > > > ick outbreak, I turned around too fast and my big butt decided to > > > knock > > the > > > cup of water/salt mix off of the table onto the floor. So I had to > > guess > > > at about how much salt had disolved and ended up on the floor, LOL. > > > Between the PWC's and the salt doses it's hard enough to keep > > > track > > of > > > how much salt is actually in the tank. I have a salt tester for a > > > saltwater tank will that tell me how much salt I have in it and > > > does anyone know how much I should have in it testing it with a > > refractometer? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > >> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 > 10:15:06 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 11:13:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 12:06:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33937	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: fish that can live in harmony together?:

Mongabay fish profiles. On each profile, they have a "Suggested Companions" section that goes over other fish that historically done well together. There's always exceptions where our fish do not read the same things we do. http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm In the second section, "Advanced Search", put the bullet in the Mongabay Fish section. Then do a search on the common name or Latin name of the fish and that fishes profile should come up in the top 2-3 hits. Also, in each profile, you'll see recommended minimum tank size, water parameters, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fish that can live in harmony together?: Is there anywhere that can tell you groups of fish that would go well together? I am getting a 50 to 75 gallon next year and want all fish that will get along and like the same conditions. I have looked around a bit and will have lots of time but just wondered if there are some people here who know any sites with this topic. thanks Erin B. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 12:11:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33938	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/1/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33939	From: johchance1@aol.com	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

In a message dated 12/2/2008 2:55:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, menagerie_manager@... writes: Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish DebR, What is the Ratlist? I got 7 pages of bashing on a sugar glider group because I said I wanted to do coat color experiments. They assumed that I was going to do some horrible experiments. I tried to explain that I was just crossing different colors and recording the cost color of the offspring. Coat color genetics in glider is not understood. I finally unsubscribed. But the moderator AFTER 7 pages of nasty bashing and a post of my home address with threats that they would break into my home and take my glider put a stop to the post. I got out anyway. Jon **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33940	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: fish that can live in harmony together?:

Start with the conditions of your water (pH especially). Is there a fish or tank that inspired you to get the tank next year? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pomlady101 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fish that can live in harmony together?: Is there anywhere that can tell you groups of fish that would go well together? I am getting a 50 to 75 gallon next year and want all fish that will get along and like the same conditions. I have looked around a bit and will have lots of time but just wondered if there are some people here who know any sites with this topic. thanks Erin B. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33941	From: bill1433	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

Hi Amber,   If your going to go through any or all of this with your tanks; it may be a good idea to start a notebook for yourself.  Date and record ANYTHING  that goes into which tank, how much and when.  Right now I only have that small 5-gallon hex but I make use of a spread-sheet to record water parameters and anything going into or out of that tank.  For the size your working with, I would even consider MS Word document.  Just something for you to reference.   Bill --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 gallon tank..... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 9:36 PM Today while checking to see if I had any new dead fish due to the ick outbreak, I turned around too fast and my big butt decided to knock the cup of water/salt mix off of the table onto the floor. So I had to guess at about how much salt had disolved and ended up on the floor, LOL. Between the PWC's and the salt doses it's hard enough to keep track of how much salt is actually in the tank. I have a salt tester for a saltwater tank will that tell me how much salt I have in it and does anyone know how much I should have in it testing it with a refractometer? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33942	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: im my fish ok in her breeder net

ok well i put my molly in a breeder net and she had her babies a few days ago i moved the babies to a 1 gallon tank jus for a week i looked in my tank and noticed my mosquito fish is far along id say a week left so i put her in the breeder net with a live plant for air and a fake plant for fry to hide incase im not there to take her out right after birth she being in there about 18 hours now shes not swimming back in forth she seems very calm shes eating well i no some people hate breeder nets saying there fish die in them but since shes so calm and eating would it be ok to leave her in there i dont wnat to take her out and have her give birth in my tank due to the fact that there so small and theyd all get eating be for even makeing it to safety so would it ok to leave her in the breeder net? thanks ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33943	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

Thanks for the idea about MS word, that's something I could easily keep track of. If I got a notebook I'd end up losing it somewhere in the house, LOL. We are starting day 1 of 87 degrees, everyone seems happy and hungry (like normal), even the gourami is looking better (he was one of the worst ones and I lost one of my gourami's on sunday). I don't plan on replacing the gourami's they are just a little too sensitive for my tastes. I'm not sure if I lost one of my long finned blue rams or not (they tend to hide in the plants and ornaments on the bottom of the tank so I'm not sure), but I haven't found any dead bodies even after moving the ornaments around to look under them. The rams remind me of humming birds because they hover around on the bottom of the tank and then suddenly dart off somewhere, LOL. Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > If your going to go through any or all of this with your tanks; it may > be a good idea to start a notebook for yourself. Date and record > ANYTHING that goes into which tank, how much and when. Right now I > only have that small 5-gallon hex but I make use of a spread-sheet to > record water parameters and anything going into or out of that tank. > For the size your working with, I would even consider MS Word > document. Just something for you to reference. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the > doses in a 125 gallon tank..... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 9:36 PM > > Today while checking to see if I had any new dead fish due to the ick > outbreak, I turned around too fast and my big butt decided to knock the > cup of water/salt mix off of the table onto the floor. So I had to guess > at about how much salt had disolved and ended up on the floor, LOL. > Between the PWC's and the salt doses it's hard enough to keep track of > how much salt is actually in the tank. I have a salt tester for a > saltwater tank will that tell me how much salt I have in it and does > anyone know how much I should have in it testing it with a refractometer? > > Amber > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33944	From: bill1433	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

Like I said, not trying to tell you what to do.  The notebook came as a result of establishing a baseline for my well-water.  After I thought it over, I realized that information could be valuable later so the notebook was born.  If you use MS Word, by using the tabs on its header bar "Insert" then time and date, I believe this will serve you well.  For myself I have more "senior moments" than I care to remember and this helps keep things in prospective.   Good Luck,   Bill --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 gallon tank..... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 12:17 PM Thanks for the idea about MS word, that's something I could easily keep track of. If I got a notebook I'd end up losing it somewhere in the house, LOL. We are starting day 1 of 87 degrees, everyone seems happy and hungry (like normal), even the gourami is looking better (he was one of the worst ones and I lost one of my gourami's on sunday). I don't plan on replacing the gourami's they are just a little too sensitive for my tastes. I'm not sure if I lost one of my long finned blue rams or not (they tend to hide in the plants and ornaments on the bottom of the tank so I'm not sure), but I haven't found any dead bodies even after moving the ornaments around to look under them. The rams remind me of humming birds because they hover around on the bottom of the tank and then suddenly dart off somewhere, LOL. Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > If your going to go through any or all of this with your tanks; it may > be a good idea to start a notebook for yourself. Date and record > ANYTHING that goes into which tank, how much and when. Right now I > only have that small 5-gallon hex but I make use of a spread-sheet to > record water parameters and anything going into or out of that tank. > For the size your working with, I would even consider MS Word > document. Just something for you to reference. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the > doses in a 125 gallon tank..... > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 9:36 PM > > Today while checking to see if I had any new dead fish due to the ick > outbreak, I turned around too fast and my big butt decided to knock the > cup of water/salt mix off of the table onto the floor. So I had to guess > at about how much salt had disolved and ended up on the floor, LOL. > Between the PWC's and the salt doses it's hard enough to keep track of > how much salt is actually in the tank. I have a salt tester for a > saltwater tank will that tell me how much salt I have in it and does > anyone know how much I should have in it testing it with a refractometer? > > Amber > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33945	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: biocube

Thanks for your input! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > I have a 29 gallon saltwater setup and i love it, it's an all > inclusive system so no extras needed, mine maintains a really good > temp without a heater, but for a freshwater i would say stick one on > the side glass there is enough space in the hood and a gap in the back > on both sides to runa line out, seems to move the water really well, > and bioballs is what i see in any overflow system it promotes the > bacteria growth, there is also a sponge and carbon filter so you get a > combo going. the min and max fill lines make for an idiot proof top > off and water change, just add water slow and let the water level > catch up, i think i'ts great if you want a small system, the only > issues i have is that my original flourescent burnt out way too fast, > but the guy i bought it from told me to replace it with a new one then > bring back the old bulb in the new box and he's gonna credit me for it > becauseit should not have happened, and the curved edges make it > impossible to clean the algea in the curve with a magfloat, it's a > little more than you need for freshwater but great for a nano salt > system > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@> > wrote: > > > > Any thoughts on the BioCube? I have one, but I'm not sure I love > it. > > Thanks. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33946	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

The Ratlist is a YahooGroup for pet rat lovers. We are over 2,000 strong, with members all over the world. I've been a member of the group since '98. Is was started by someone at Stanford in the early 90s, rescued by James Kittock, and has traveled through several servers before resting at YahooGroups. James turned it over to Robyn Arthur 5 or 6 years ago. Robyn takes a no nonsense approach to verbal attacks. Believe me if anyone ever posted a threat or someone else's address, Robyn would ban them so fast they wouldn't know what hit them. There are some banned topics, such as politics, religion and the snake food debate, and it is a family rated group, but otherwise we're unmoderated unless someone gets obnoxious, then that member will be put on moderation. If you have any other questions, you can email me at menagerie_manager@... . DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: johchance1@... DebR, What is the Ratlist? I got 7 pages of bashing on a sugar glider group because I said I wanted to do coat color experiments. They assumed that I was going to do some horrible experiments. I tried to explain that I was just crossing different colors and recording the cost color of the offspring. Coat color genetics in glider is not understood. I finally unsubscribed. But the moderator AFTER 7 pages of nasty bashing and a post of my home address with threats that they would break into my home and take my glider put a stop to the post. I got out anyway. Jon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33947	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

This thread has me thinking. I realized pretty quick that I was going to have to keep a journal of everything I do with the aquarium. I think, also, that I'm going to go get a small dry-erase board and keep it by the aquarium. Then I can record exactly how much of what is currently IN the aquarium. Then, I don't have to go back and add all the increments of things like salt together. I'll have all that info handy and can change it as I do PWCs to remove the salt later. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: bill1433 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 gallon tank..... Like I said, not trying to tell you what to do. The notebook came as a result of establishing a baseline for my well-water. After I thought it over, I realized that information could be valuable later so the notebook was born. If you use MS Word, by using the tabs on its header bar "Insert" then time and date, I believe this will serve you well. For myself I have more "senior moments" than I care to remember and this helps keep things in prospective. --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Thanks for the idea about MS word, that's something I could easily keep track of. If I got a notebook I'd end up losing it somewhere in the house, LOL. <clip> bill1433 wrote: > > If your going to go through any or all of this with your tanks; it may > be a good idea to start a notebook for yourself. Date and record > ANYTHING that goes into which tank, how much and when. Right now I > only have that small 5-gallon hex but I make use of a spread-sheet to > record water parameters and anything going into or out of that tank. > For the size your working with, I would even consider MS Word > document. Just something for you to reference. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33948	From: pomlady101	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: fish that can live in harmony together?:

What inspired me is space,lol. I haven't had a tank for a few years and when I did 30 gallons is the biggest. Well I have always wanted a bigger one and next year we finally expect to buy a home and won't be cramped in (me,hubby,daughters,2 dogs and 2 cats in a townhouse) so I am going to have room for a big or bigger tank!! In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Start with the conditions of your water (pH especially). Is there a fish or > tank that inspired you to get the tank next year? > > > > _____ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33949	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: cloudy water

What can be done to make cloudy water in a fish tank clear? have done a 25% pwc and feeding a bit less in food [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

What color cloud? Greenish cloudy water is usually from suspended algae in the water column. Whitish cloud is usually a bacterial bloom, usually from a nitrogen cycle issue but also from other issues. Whitish cloud can also be from micro-bubbles and the light reflecting off them makes them appear to be cloudy. Yellowish or brownish cloudy water is usually due to poor water quality. What are your water test levels for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature and any others you may have like GH and KH? Tell us more about your tank size, filtration, stocking level, how long has it been set up, have you added any fish recently, have you changed out a filter cartridge or other filtration issues, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water What can be done to make cloudy water in a fish tank clear? have done a 25% pwc and feeding a bit less in food [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 3:49:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33951	From: Chris	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: why not?

A friend of mine uses Tetra Algae Control to remove algae from the gravel of his hydroponic garden. I have an aquaponics system cycled and ready to go, but there is a nice heavy coating of green algae on the grow medium and thought I would use that to kill it off before I change out the water and add fish. I was reading the label and it says not to use on aquariums 3 months old or less. Why not? Will it effect the bacteria? Anyone know?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33952	From: Lisa	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: An update and questions about my cycle

Ok. So I'm up to about the 15th day of cycling. And I am beginning to see spikes of amonia with a reading between 0.05ppm and 0.25ppm. Still no signs of niterate and riterite readings. I am using liquid test kits everyday for amonia, ph, niterite, and niterates. And the test strip for chlorine, gh, and alkalinity. I did a siphon and a pwc yesterday (Tuesday AEST) because of the amonia. I still have my 2 danios, 3 madakas and 1 white cloud. In there. And I feed them only every 2 or 3 days, to reduce the amount of fish waste produced and build up of uneaten food. And of course I siphon out uneaten food. I have a question. At this early stage, can I add a golden mystery snail to help keep the tank clean? Or will the cycle process kill it? And I still have diatobes on my tank's walls. How long will it take for them to go away? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33953	From: jett07002	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: im my fish ok in her breeder net

It's OK to leave her in there for a little while, 2 - 3 days maybe, but not all the time. She needs to swim around. Perfect situation is to have a tank at least 5 gallons for the female to rest before and after she has the babies. Otherwise the males will not let her rest easy. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "theyxcallxmexl" <theyxcallxmexl@...> wrote: > > ok well i put my molly in a breeder net > and she had her babies a few days ago > i moved the babies to a 1 gallon tank > jus for a week i looked in my tank and > noticed my mosquito fish is far along > id say a week left so i put > her in the breeder net with a live plant for air > and a fake plant for fry to hide incase im > not there to take her out right after birth > she being in there about 18 hours now > shes not swimming back in forth > she seems very calm shes eating well > i no some people hate breeder nets > saying there fish die in them > but since shes so calm and eating would > it be ok to leave her in there > i dont wnat to take her out and have her give birth > in my tank due to the fact that there so small > and theyd all get eating be for even makeing it to > safety > so would it ok to leave her in the breeder net? > thanks > ~`~LOW~`~ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33954	From: jett07002	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

I know Lenny asked you to keep the thread for continuity on the subject he is advising you on. But it is OK to delete superfluous information like the Ratlist business. I doesn't pertain to what Lenny is guiding you on, so it doesn't matter. That would make the thread a little shorter. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > The Ratlist is a YahooGroup for pet rat lovers. We are over 2,000 strong, with members all over the world. I've been a member of the group since '98. Is was started by someone at Stanford in the early 90s, rescued by James Kittock, and has traveled through several servers before resting at YahooGroups. James turned it over to Robyn Arthur 5 or 6 years ago. Robyn takes a no nonsense approach to verbal attacks. Believe me if anyone ever posted a threat or someone else's address, Robyn would ban them so fast they wouldn't know what hit them. There are some banned topics, such as politics, religion and the snake food debate, and it is a family rated group, but otherwise we're unmoderated unless someone gets obnoxious, then that member will be put on moderation. If you have any other questions, you can email me at menagerie_manager@... . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: johchance1@... > DebR, > What is the Ratlist? I got 7 pages of bashing on a sugar glider group > because I said I wanted to do coat color experiments. They assumed that I was going > to do some horrible experiments. I tried to explain that I was just crossing > different colors and recording the cost color of the offspring. Coat color > genetics in glider is not understood. I finally unsubscribed. But the > moderator AFTER 7 pages of nasty bashing and a post of my home address with threats > that they would break into my home and take my glider put a stop to the post. > I got out anyway. > Jon > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33955	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: im my fish ok in her breeder net

thanks joe i have been loking for a fivegallon tank for my female to have babeis in but no one carrys them i went to wal mart and to pet store the smallest they have is a 10g and i have no room for a ten but if she doesent have her babies in the next 3 days where should i put her cuz if i put her back in her own tank the males will bug her to no end my other tank has tiger bards and that would be a big mistake puting her in there and the other has mollies and last time i mixed them with another fish they killed it so what should i do if she dont have her babeis soon?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33956	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

not sure of the amonia and nitrait levels as I dont have any test kits for that yet. it is a greenish cloud -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 4:49 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] cloudy water What color cloud? Greenish cloudy water is usually from suspended algae in the water column. Whitish cloud is usually a bacterial bloom, usually from a nitrogen cycle issue but also from other issues. Whitish cloud can also be from micro-bubbles and the light reflecting off them makes them appear to be cloudy. Yellowish or brownish cloudy water is usually due to poor water quality. What are your water test levels for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature and any others you may have like GH and KH? Tell us more about your tank size, filtration, stocking level, how long has it been set up, have you added any fish recently, have you changed out a filter cartridge or other filtration issues, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water What can be done to make cloudy water in a fish tank clear? have done a 25% pwc and feeding a bit less in food [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 3:49:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33957	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 g

I just use an Excel. I have a chart that goes back 3 years starting with my first cycle. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 gallon tank..... This thread has me thinking. I realized pretty quick that I was going to have to keep a journal of everything I do with the aquarium. I think, also, that I'm going to go get a small dry-erase board and keep it by the aquarium. Then I can record exactly how much of what is currently IN the aquarium. Then, I don't have to go back and add all the increments of things like salt together. I'll have all that info handy and can change it as I do PWCs to remove the salt later. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: bill1433 To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] As if it's not hard enough to keep track of the doses in a 125 gallon tank..... Like I said, not trying to tell you what to do. The notebook came as a result of establishing a baseline for my well-water. After I thought it over, I realized that information could be valuable later so the notebook was born. If you use MS Word, by using the tabs on its header bar "Insert" then time and date, I believe this will serve you well. For myself I have more "senior moments" than I care to remember and this helps keep things in prospective. --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> com> Thanks for the idea about MS word, that's something I could easily keep track of. If I got a notebook I'd end up losing it somewhere in the house, LOL. <clip> bill1433 wrote: > > If your going to go through any or all of this with your tanks; it may > be a good idea to start a notebook for yourself. Date and record > ANYTHING that goes into which tank, how much and when. Right now I > only have that small 5-gallon hex but I make use of a spread-sheet to > record water parameters and anything going into or out of that tank. > For the size your working with, I would even consider MS Word > document. Just something for you to reference. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33958	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: why not?

I have heard 50% of the time people add algae killers to their tank it also kills plants or fish. A few weekends ago I was helping a person with advice on a tank he had added Algae Fix to every last fish died before he could do enough water changes to get rid of the stuff. You could email the manufacturer and ask? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] why not? A friend of mine uses Tetra Algae Control to remove algae from the gravel of his hydroponic garden. I have an aquaponics system cycled and ready to go, but there is a nice heavy coating of green algae on the grow medium and thought I would use that to kill it off before I change out the water and add fish. I was reading the label and it says not to use on aquariums 3 months old or less. Why not? Will it effect the bacteria? Anyone know? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

LOL.. well the ratlist is a new subject matter.. at least for the email recipients. I don't know how the group formats these things. Well, I just peeked at the group and sorted by Topics and it did put the Ratlist posts in the same thread as the Newbie thread. I figured that changing the Subject would start a new thread in the group. I guess someone needs to come up with a new updated version of netiquette rules. I know the old rules were to keep the size of emails to a minimum for folks on dial up or for folks still paying for band-width by the kb, but the rest of the internet doesn't seem as concerned about those things any longer. The "size" of webpages are growing as fast as the internet speeds can keep up with them. There are only a few sites that still give surfers the option of choosing between high speed and dial-up when surfing their sites. The majority of sites are graphic intensive and would take a LONG time to view with dial up nowadays. I do use plain text for emails but that is more for security reasons rather than bandwidth issues.. and for ease of reading for all parties. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 6:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) I know Lenny asked you to keep the thread for continuity on the subject he is advising you on. But it is OK to delete superfluous information like the Ratlist business. I doesn't pertain to what Lenny is guiding you on, so it doesn't matter. That would make the thread a little shorter. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > The Ratlist is a YahooGroup for pet rat lovers. We are over 2,000 strong, with members all over the world. I've been a member of the group since '98. Is was started by someone at Stanford in the early 90s, rescued by James Kittock, and has traveled through several servers before resting at YahooGroups. James turned it over to Robyn Arthur 5 or 6 years ago. Robyn takes a no nonsense approach to verbal attacks. Believe me if anyone ever posted a threat or someone else's address, Robyn would ban them so fast they wouldn't know what hit them. There are some banned topics, such as politics, religion and the snake food debate, and it is a family rated group, but otherwise we're unmoderated unless someone gets obnoxious, then that member will be put on moderation. If you have any other questions, you can email me at menagerie_manager@... . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: johchance1@... > DebR, > What is the Ratlist? I got 7 pages of bashing on a sugar glider group > because I said I wanted to do coat color experiments. They assumed that I was going > to do some horrible experiments. I tried to explain that I was just crossing > different colors and recording the cost color of the offspring. Coat color > genetics in glider is not understood. I finally unsubscribed. But the > moderator AFTER 7 pages of nasty bashing and a post of my home address with threats > that they would break into my home and take my glider put a stop to the post. > I got out anyway. > Jon > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 8:00:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33960	From: Chris Johnson	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: why not?

Ah. So even if I change out the water completely there will probably be toxic residue in the grow bed. ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 8:52:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] why not? I have heard 50% of the time people add algae killers to their tank it also kills plants or fish. A few weekends ago I was helping a person with advice on a tank he had added Algae Fix to�every last fish died before he could do enough water changes to get rid of the stuff. You could email the manufacturer and ask? _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] why not? A friend of mine uses Tetra Algae Control to remove algae from the gravel of his hydroponic garden. I have an aquaponics system cycled and ready to go, but there is a nice heavy coating of green algae on the grow medium and thought I would use that to kill it off before I change out the water and add fish. I was reading the label and it says not to use on aquariums 3 months old or less. Why not? Will it effect the bacteria? Anyone know? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33961	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

forgot to say it is a 10 gallon with 3 goldfish in it.  i would say it has only been going a month now. The filter will be changed tomorrow come payday. I am looking for a larger tank as we speak. So far no luck might see if my mom  can help when she comes to visit on the 22nd of this month. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 4:49 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] cloudy water What color cloud? Greenish cloudy water is usually from suspended algae in the water column. Whitish cloud is usually a bacterial bloom, usually from a nitrogen cycle issue but also from other issues. Whitish cloud can also be from micro-bubbles and the light reflecting off them makes them appear to be cloudy. Yellowish or brownish cloudy water is usually due to poor water quality. What are your water test levels for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature and any others you may have like GH and KH? Tell us more about your tank size, filtration, stocking level, how long has it been set up, have you added any fish recently, have you changed out a filter cartridge or other filtration issues, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandc hase49@... Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water What can be done to make cloudy water in a fish tank clear? have done a 25% pwc and feeding a bit less in food [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 3:49:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! ID required) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33962	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

DO NOT CHANGE THE FILTER! Read my article on Filter Maintenance And Cleaning. Changing the filter right now would be the worst thing you could do. You will ALWAYS have water quality issues with goldfish in a 10G tank.. even one goldfish. A single fancy goldfish needs at least 25-30G per goldfish and at least a 4' long tank.. I recommend a 55G as the minimum tank size for a pair of fancies. Anything less will result in stunting of the fish, health issues for the fish and water quality issues that make keeping the goldfish a lot more of a chore than a hobby. Even with two in a 55G, you can expect to do weekly PWC's, filter maintenance and gravel vacuuming. Goldfish are BIG fish. See my Goldfish Care Sheet on my blog for more details. For now, with three goldfish in a 10G, until you can get a bigger tank, you should do 25% PWC's (partial water changes) daily (but read further down before starting these)... maybe even more often since you are still likely cycling since your tank is only running for a month. The green water is actually God's way of trying to save the goldfish (or Mother Nature for atheists/agnostics.;-)). The algae bloom is forming to try and consume some of the ammonia and nitrites that are building up in the tank. The algae bloom is likely saving your fish so you don't want to kill it off or remove it all right now... at least not until you get a master test kit. Maybe do a 10% PWC every day, with dechlorinated water, to replace the nutrients and hardness in the water without removing too much of the algae. Keep doing these daily PWC's until your test kit shows that the tank is fully cycled.. 0.0ppm of ammonia, 0.0ppm of nitrite and nitrates slowly rising. Of course, the algae will be utilizing some or all of the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate right now but the daily 10% PWC's will slowly acclimate the tank from needing the algae to being clear. Even after getting it clear, you'll have to do daily PWC's to keep the water safe and clean enough to prevent this from happening again until you can get a larger tank. With three goldfish, a 75G tank would work but you will still have to do weekly maintenance on the tank.. but that's a lot better than daily maintenance. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 7:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] cloudy water forgot to say it is a 10 gallon with 3 goldfish in it. i would say it has only been going a month now. The filter will be changed tomorrow come payday. I am looking for a larger tank as we speak. So far no luck might see if my mom can help when she comes to visit on the 22nd of this month. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 4:49 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] cloudy water What color cloud? Greenish cloudy water is usually from suspended algae in the water column. Whitish cloud is usually a bacterial bloom, usually from a nitrogen cycle issue but also from other issues. Whitish cloud can also be from micro-bubbles and the light reflecting off them makes them appear to be cloudy. Yellowish or brownish cloudy water is usually due to poor water quality. What are your water test levels for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature and any others you may have like GH and KH? Tell us more about your tank size, filtration, stocking level, how long has it been set up, have you added any fish recently, have you changed out a filter cartridge or other filtration issues, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of angelandc hase49@... <mailto:hase49%40aim.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ; freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water What can be done to make cloudy water in a fish tank clear? have done a 25% pwc and feeding a bit less in food [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 3:49:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! ID required) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 8:14:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 8:28:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33963	From: Lisa	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Single species tank...

Hi all. Just me asking about species again. Ok, so we've covered community tanks. But if I wanted to do a single species tank, preferably a species that has lots of colour, is mid to top dwelling, and are active, where would be a good place to start? I love gouramis Could I do an African or America cichlid tank? Remembering my tank is 22gal long, moderately planted (with silk plants) has good U/G filtration and is heated at 24*C The substrate is white gravel, no background yet. And the light is soon to come. This is what I can get or close to it. http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg Live plants would be hornwort or frogbit, for floating cover. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33964	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: stressed platy

Here's a follow-up to my threads about ich and heaters: I brought home two platys (platies?) as starter fish for a new aquarium a little over two weeks ago. At least one of them contracted ich (the coloring of the other made it hard to tell), but responded successfully to treatment, which I continued for a total of about 10 days. I had difficulty adjusting the temperature of the tank, leading to drastic swings in temp (up to 87 F, down to about 67 F) over the course of several days at the end of the ich treatment. The tank has been at 76-78 degrees since Sunday, and frequent water tests have all been fine. As one of the previous posters noted, I shouldn't expect the fish to bounce back immediately, but I am really concerned about one of them. She swims briefly to the surface when startled, but spends most of the time on the gravel panting, with her fins so tighly clamped her tail appears pointy. Frequently she doesn't even support her body in the water, appearing "droopy." (Interestingly, this fish appeared more vigorous when we first brought them home, while the other fish spent more time on the bottom.) This is even several days after correcting the environmental conditions in the tank. Has a fish this stressed-out ever been known to recover? Anything I can do to coax her along, without doing more damage?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...

If the measurements of your tank is at least 30" x 12" (footprint), then these "Cookie Cutter" setups will be something for you to look at to give you an idea of what kind and how many cichlids should work. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_20g.php The plants will be decided on by the fish, as you will see when reading the above article... namely this paragraph ... "...Only Apistos and those species from West Africa and Lake Tanganyika are "plant friendly." The others are serious diggers and/or plant grazers...." Floating plants have a little more of a chance since they aren't anchored so the fish can't grab hold and rip it apart as easily. This is how I started off my goldfish tank with plants but now I'm able to actually plant the Anacharis, etc., and the fish leave it alone.. or rather don't tear it up completely. Of course, if I didn't feed them, the plants would quickly become food. I personally like Anacharis over Hornwort. Hornwort is too fragile for plant grazers/eaters... at least it has been in my experience. Note that that "hood" that you linked is not lighting... it's simply a hood. There might be better options for hoods with built in fluorescent lighting available... or were you the one with the space issues above your tank so you were going with a desk lamp with a CFL bulb for lighting? If you were going with external lighting, you might just want to have someone (or yourself) cut a piece of plexiglass to fit over your tank. This will be flat and allow lighting in from the top where the black hood would block the lighting from the top. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Single species tank... Hi all. Just me asking about species again. Ok, so we've covered community tanks. But if I wanted to do a single species tank, preferably a species that has lots of colour, is mid to top dwelling, and are active, where would be a good place to start? I love gouramis. Could I do an African or America cichlid tank? Remembering my tank is 22gal long, moderately planted (with silk plants) has good U/G filtration and is heated at 24*C The substrate is white gravel, no background yet. And the light is soon to come. This is what I can get.or close to it. http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg <http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg> Live plants would be hornwort or frogbit, for floating cover. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 10:11:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33966	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

Lenny, I have been doing e-mail since the late 70's, when having an actual modem rather than an acoustic coupler was cool. Back then is when many of the abbreviations in use today were created--to save time. However, even then, it was important to keep at least parts of the original message with the reply so there was continuity. As speeds increased, more and more of the original message was left. The purpose of this was to give the reader of the message some continuity, and basic facts that could be used in crafting a reply. It simply was easier to do this than to try to find earlier messages on the bulletin Board (BB) on the topic for background. This has developed into keeping every message in the thread attached to the reply. Many of the lists I belong to require that the tread be kept intact, and those who do not do so are reprimanded, usually by the list members. Over the last several years, at least, there has been a large influx of people using lists, and a general "dumbing down" of the collective wisdom of the 'Net. This has been helped along by the corporate types. For example, changing the name of directories to folders, lists to groups, for two easy targets. Also, you have the corporate owned web sites that host these things, and the longer they can keep you within their walled garden, the more eyes will see the ads, so they can generate money for the stockholders and to keep the place up and running. The new ones to this form of communication seem to think that there is no reason for the keeping of messages in a thread for reference by those who are participating. Usually, it is the non-participants who do the complaining, not the ones asking and answering topics that come up. The lurkers as they are called. Now, we are going to be faced with a large group of people who are used to passing along messages with a 140 or 160 character limit. Heck, with a few well chosen word on our aquarium topics, I could probably surpass that limit easily. But, it probably means that we will be hearing more of this in the future. This seems to be the way that DebR's Ratlist is going. Frankly, I do not see where it does anyone any good. I am not saying that the way we prefer to do it now is the only way. I am sure there is a middle ground in there somewhere, or a new way of doing this, but, until this evolution happens, people will need to keep the threads together, and going. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) LOL.. well the ratlist is a new subject matter.. at least for the email recipients. I don't know how the group formats these things. Well, I just peeked at the group and sorted by Topics and it did put the Ratlist posts in the same thread as the Newbie thread. I figured that changing the Subject would start a new thread in the group. I guess someone needs to come up with a new updated version of netiquette rules. I know the old rules were to keep the size of emails to a minimum for folks on dial up or for folks still paying for band-width by the kb, but the rest of the internet doesn't seem as concerned about those things any longer. The "size" of webpages are growing as fast as the internet speeds can keep up with them. There are only a few sites that still give surfers the option of choosing between high speed and dial-up when surfing their sites. The majority of sites are graphic intensive and would take a LONG time to view with dial up nowadays. I do use plain text for emails but that is more for security reasons rather than bandwidth issues.. and for ease of reading for all parties. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 6:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) I know Lenny asked you to keep the thread for continuity on the subject he is advising you on. But it is OK to delete superfluous information like the Ratlist business. I doesn't pertain to what Lenny is guiding you on, so it doesn't matter. That would make the thread a little shorter. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > The Ratlist is a YahooGroup for pet rat lovers. We are over 2,000 strong, with members all over the world. I've been a member of the group since '98. Is was started by someone at Stanford in the early 90s, rescued by James Kittock, and has traveled through several servers before resting at YahooGroups. James turned it over to Robyn Arthur 5 or 6 years ago. Robyn takes a no nonsense approach to verbal attacks. Believe me if anyone ever posted a threat or someone else's address, Robyn would ban them so fast they wouldn't know what hit them. There are some banned topics, such as politics, religion and the snake food debate, and it is a family rated group, but otherwise we're unmoderated unless someone gets obnoxious, then that member will be put on moderation. If you have any other questions, you can email me at menagerie_manager@... . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: johchance1@... > DebR, > What is the Ratlist? I got 7 pages of bashing on a sugar glider group > because I said I wanted to do coat color experiments. They assumed that I was going > to do some horrible experiments. I tried to explain that I was just crossing > different colors and recording the cost color of the offspring. Coat color > genetics in glider is not understood. I finally unsubscribed. But the > moderator AFTER 7 pages of nasty bashing and a post of my home address with threats > that they would break into my home and take my glider put a stop to the post. > I got out anyway. > Jon > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33967	From: Lisa	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...

I worked out i have enough space for the light. But that's beside the point here. Thanks for the link. I'll have a browse now Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33968	From: Lisa	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...

So far from that list i like, • Julidochromis regani - 1 pair • Neolamprologus leleupi - 1 pair • 'Lamprologus' occelatus - 1 trio or • Archocentrus nigrofasciatus - 1 pair • Hyphessobrycon eques "Serpae Tetra" - 5 or • Apistogramma species - 1 pair (Apistogramma cacatuoides (Red) or (Apistogramma viejita) • Corydoras catfish - 4 • Hyphessobrycon eques "Serpae Tetra" - 6-8

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33969	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

I'd 'a thunk changing the subject line would put this into a new thread, too. I guess any reply to a post goes into the same thread even if you change the subject. Next time I'll copy and paste into a fresh message. In the mean time, I won't clutter the group with any more Ratlist talk. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny LOL.. well the ratlist is a new subject matter.. at least for the email recipients. I don't know how the group formats these things. Well, I just peeked at the group and sorted by Topics and it did put the Ratlist posts in the same thread as the Newbie thread. I figured that changing the Subject would start a new thread in the group. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

Well... you could always talk about Ratfish. ;-) http://www.elasmodiver.com/spotted_ratfish.htm Or even the White Ratfish.. well.. Albino.. lol http://freekboiscreaturefeatures.blogspot.com/2007/09/albino-ratfish-caught. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ratlist (Off Topic) (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) I'd 'a thunk changing the subject line would put this into a new thread, too. I guess any reply to a post goes into the same thread even if you change the subject. Next time I'll copy and paste into a fresh message. In the mean time, I won't clutter the group with any more Ratlist talk. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny LOL.. well the ratlist is a new subject matter.. at least for the email recipients. I don't know how the group formats these things. Well, I just peeked at the group and sorted by Topics and it did put the Ratlist posts in the same thread as the Newbie thread. I figured that changing the Subject would start a new thread in the group. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/2/2008 11:55:17 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 12:02:58 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33971	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33972	From: N Taweel	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Fish are dying- can salt be the killer?

Hi, 3 days ago, I added salt to my 20G community tank to treat a white stuff on the eyes of 2 fish (1 teaspoon of sea salt per 5 gallons, dissolved in a cup of water and added gradually over the day). The source of the salt is raw salt from the sea water, without being refined. I thought it would be safer to use than the chinese medications that didn't work before. I couldn't put the fish in a hospital tank because all my 3 heaters are used in other tanks. In the evening, one tetra serape died, and the next day my golden chinese alge eater died, they both looked perfectly okey before. I started 20% PWC yesterday to get rid of the salt, fearing it is the cause of death. Why did this happen? What should I do? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33973	From: Chow Kwok Loong (Alan)	Date: 12/2/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help

Hi Amsterbaum, I am sorry your platy is suffering from "stress". Some possibities to reduce stress for fishes: (i) Did you try to acclimitize the fish by floating the bag it is in , before releasing into your tank? (the idea is to allow your platy to adjust to the temperature of the fish tank water) (ii) Perhaps introducing water plants,filter or rocks for the platy to hide might also help to reduce stress. (iii) Reduce the intensity of lightings of your aqaurium by changing to a lighter tone of the florescent tube (blue/pinkish). Or prevent sudden switching on of the lights by switching on the surrounding light before you turn on fish tank lights. (iv) Include aquarium salt in the water for your platys. Osmoregulation - another word for the physiological device fish use to manage the amount of salt and fluids in their bodies. Freshwater fish are saltier than the water they live in and their skin is semi-permeable so, particularly when stressed, they can suffer from osmoregulatory dysfunction i.e. start to lose body salts; this loss can be reduced through the use of aquarium salt. (v) Lastly, Have you tried ketapang leaves (a.k.a Catappa/Indian Almond) or other types of water conditioner in the market to condition the water for your platys? You can try to google 'ketapang leaves' and you will find many of the propeties of the ketapang leaves. There are some sites that even mention aboutt he medicinal values for humans, but i won't recommand that to treat, better to look for a doctor. :D Findings: "... the dried Ketapang leaves actually release organic acids like humic and tannins which lowers the pH of the water, absorbs harmful chemicals and help create a soothing and calm environment for the fish...." [Taken from: bettysplendens.com ] "... the leaves contain several flavonoids <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavonoid> (like kamferol <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kamferol&action=edit&redlink=\ 1> or quercetin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin> ), several tannins <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin> (such as punicalin <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Punicalin&action=edit&redlink\ =1> , punicalagin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punicalagin> or tercatin <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tercatin&action=edit&redlink=\ 1> ), saponines <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saponine&action=edit&redlink=\ 1> and phytosterols <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytosterol> . Due to this chemical richness, the leaves (and also the bark) are used in different traditional medicines <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_medicine> for various purposes. For instances, in Taiwan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan> fallen leaves are used as a herb to treat liver <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver> diseases. In Suriname <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname> , a tea made from the leaves is prescribed against dysentery <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysentery> and diarrhea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarrhea> . It is also thought that the leaves contain agents for prevention of cancers <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> (although they have no demonstrated anticarcinogenic properties) and antioxidant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant> as well as anticlastogenic <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anticlastogenic&action=edit&r\ edlink=1> characteristics..." [Taken from: en.wikipedia.org] Best Regards/ Alan Chow Ketapang Leaves Distributor from Singapore www.alanchow76.com/ketapang <http://www.alanchow76.com/ketapang> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > Here's a follow-up to my threads about ich and heaters: > > I brought home two platys (platies?) as starter fish for a new > aquarium a little over two weeks ago. At least one of them > contracted ich (the coloring of the other made it hard to tell), but > responded successfully to treatment, which I continued for a total of > about 10 days. I had difficulty adjusting the temperature of the > tank, leading to drastic swings in temp (up to 87 F, down to about 67 > F) over the course of several days at the end of the ich treatment. > The tank has been at 76-78 degrees since Sunday, and frequent water > tests have all been fine. > > As one of the previous posters noted, I shouldn't expect the fish to > bounce back immediately, but I am really concerned about one of > them. She swims briefly to the surface when startled, but spends > most of the time on the gravel panting, with her fins so tighly > clamped her tail appears pointy. Frequently she doesn't even support > her body in the water, appearing "droopy." (Interestingly, this fish > appeared more vigorous when we first brought them home, while the > other fish spent more time on the bottom.) This is even several days > after correcting the environmental conditions in the tank. Has a > fish this stressed-out ever been known to recover? Anything I can do > to coax her along, without doing more damage? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33974	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...

No African cichlids except shellies could be housed in a 22G long tank. Shellies are very interesting and cute but bottom-dwelling and not colorful. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 10:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Single species tank... Hi all. Just me asking about species again. Ok, so we've covered community tanks. But if I wanted to do a single species tank, preferably a species that has lots of colour, is mid to top dwelling, and are active, where would be a good place to start? I love gouramis Could I do an African or America cichlid tank? Remembering my tank is 22gal long, moderately planted (with silk plants) has good U/G filtration and is heated at 24*C The substrate is white gravel, no background yet. And the light is soon to come. This is what I can get or close to it. http://www.fishandf <http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg> ins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg Live plants would be hornwort or frogbit, for floating cover. Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33975	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...

Some of the cookie cutters on Cichlid-forum need to be updated. I don’t think I would put Juli’s, Leleupi and Occelatus in a 30” tank. Note they are all bottom-mid dwellers. I have a 36” tank and was advised that 2 pair of very calm fish like Calvus and Caudopunctatus would be the max. Juli’s, Leleupi and Occelatus are all feisty! You might be successful with Juli’s alone, or Occelatus alone. And If you want Juli’s, I’d go with a smaller transcriptus or Julidochromis Marlieri Gombe. The “Gombe” part on the Juli’s is important the various fish have differing aggressiveness and sizes the Gombe is smaller. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Single species tank... So far from that list i like, • Julidochromis regani - 1 pair • Neolamprologus leleupi - 1 pair • 'Lamprologus' occelatus - 1 trio or • Archocentrus nigrofasciatus - 1 pair • Hyphessobrycon eques "Serpae Tetra" - 5 or • Apistogramma species - 1 pair (Apistogramma cacatuoides (Red) or (Apistogramma viejita) • Corydoras catfish - 4 • Hyphessobrycon eques "Serpae Tetra" - 6-8 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33976	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...

Donna, Let's see, just off the top of my head, you have the members of the _Julidichromis_ genus, embers of the _Pelvicachromis_ genus, and more that could well take a pair and some young in a 22 gallon tank. I know that there are others, but I am not really into cichlids at this time. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Single species tank... No African cichlids except shellies could be housed in a 22G long tank. Shellies are very interesting and cute but bottom-dwelling and not colorful. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 10:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Single species tank... Hi all. Just me asking about species again. Ok, so we've covered community tanks. But if I wanted to do a single species tank, preferably a species that has lots of colour, is mid to top dwelling, and are active, where would be a good place to start? I love gouramis... Could I do an African or America cichlid tank? Remembering my tank is 22gal long, moderately planted (with silk plants) has good U/G filtration and is heated at 24*C The substrate is white gravel, no background yet. And the light is soon to come. This is what I can get...or close to it. http://www.fishandf <http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg> ins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg Live plants would be hornwort or frogbit, for floating cover. Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...

Donna, What about the cookie-cutter setups on the 20G long tank here... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_20g.php They have shell dweller setups but also Tanganyikan and West African setups as well.... sure, not 10 or 20 fish like you would have with smaller tropical's but still they would work.. right? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Single species tank... No African cichlids except shellies could be housed in a 22G long tank. Shellies are very interesting and cute but bottom-dwelling and not colorful. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 10:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Single species tank... Hi all. Just me asking about species again. Ok, so we've covered community tanks. But if I wanted to do a single species tank, preferably a species that has lots of colour, is mid to top dwelling, and are active, where would be a good place to start? I love gouramis. Could I do an African or America cichlid tank? Remembering my tank is 22gal long, moderately planted (with silk plants) has good U/G filtration and is heated at 24*C The substrate is white gravel, no background yet. And the light is soon to come. This is what I can get.or close to it. http://www.fishandf <http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg <http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg <http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg> > > ins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg Live plants would be hornwort or frogbit, for floating cover. Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 9:19:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...

Oops.. I should have read my next email. You just answered my previous question. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Single species tank... Some of the cookie cutters on Cichlid-forum need to be updated. I don't think I would put Juli's, Leleupi and Occelatus in a 30" tank. Note they are all bottom-mid dwellers. I have a 36" tank and was advised that 2 pair of very calm fish like Calvus and Caudopunctatus would be the max. Juli's, Leleupi and Occelatus are all feisty! You might be successful with Juli's alone, or Occelatus alone. And If you want Juli's, I'd go with a smaller transcriptus or Julidochromis Marlieri Gombe. The "Gombe" part on the Juli's is important.the various fish have differing aggressiveness and sizes.the Gombe is smaller. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Single species tank... So far from that list i like, . Julidochromis regani - 1 pair . Neolamprologus leleupi - 1 pair . 'Lamprologus' occelatus - 1 trio or . Archocentrus nigrofasciatus - 1 pair . Hyphessobrycon eques "Serpae Tetra" - 5 or . Apistogramma species - 1 pair (Apistogramma cacatuoides (Red) or (Apistogramma viejita) . Corydoras catfish - 4 . Hyphessobrycon eques "Serpae Tetra" - 6-8 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081202-0, 12/02/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 9:20:42 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33979	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: An update and questions about my cycle

You will NOT see nitrite or nitrate (notice spellings ;-)) until the bacteria that eats the ammonia starts growing large enough colonies to handle the ammonia. When they eat the ammonia, they put out nitrite as part of their waste. As they start putting out nitrite, then the bacteria that eat nitrites will start growing and eating the nitrite. When they eat the nitrite, they put out nitrates as part of their waste. Ammonia levels of 0.05ppm to 0.25ppm are NOT spikes. Those are just the beginning levels. When you start getting up to the 1.0ppm range (if your pH is 7.5 or below), then you would do PWC's to keep the ammonia between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm. This will give your bacteria plenty of food to eat while still being low enough levels to be not as harmful to the fish. Without testing and PWC's, I've seen people getting ammonia test results in the 5.0ppm to 10.0ppm range.. now those are spikes... and will often kill the fish or permanently damage the fish. If I remember right, you have a 30G tank.. right? You should give us that kind of basic info when asking about what you can add. I help out on several forums and can't keep track of everybody's setups from memory. I would NOT add anything else right now. Besides, the snail would not do anything with the diatoms. Lets get your tank through the cycling with fish phase that you are in right now before adding any other fish/critters to the tank. Once the tank is cycled, then you can quarantine some new fish and add them. Now you know why we push Fishless Cycling so strongly. It's faster, easier and you can add a full load of fish to the tank as soon as it's done... and you don't put any living fish at risk like with Cycling With Fish. For the diatoms, you can just use an algae scrubbie or scraper or soft brush and knock them off the glass and then vacuum them up when you do a PWC. They'll be in your tank for up to a couple of months but usually not. As your tank matures and fully cycles, the other microscopic life forms in the tank will out-compete the diatoms for nutrients and the diatoms will die off and go away. If you have a 30G tank, as I believe you do, you should feed the fish daily or twice daily. There's no need to starve the fish. If you were having major cycling issues with high ammonia and nitrite issues and if you did not have a test kit, that might be a reason to cut back on feedings but not right now. Technically, you want the fish to put out more waste to help you cycle the tank. You are able to test the water to know when it's time to do a PWC so there's no need to starve the fish. That is OLD advice that is often given out by fish stores when they hook someone into cycling with fish... as in your case. I compare that advice to someone telling you NOT to feed your baby so you won't have to change their diaper as often. Would you use that as an excuse to not feed your child? You should not be having much uneaten food. Start feeding them twice a day but only give them a small pinch of food.. that they should quickly gobble up in a couple of minutes at most. You could turn off (unplug) your filter when feeding so the food doesn't scatter as much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] An update and questions about my cycle Ok. So I'm up to about the 15th day of cycling. And I am beginning to see spikes of amonia with a reading between 0.05ppm and 0.25ppm. Still no signs of niterate and riterite readings. I am using liquid test kits everyday for amonia, ph, niterite, and niterates. And the test strip for chlorine, gh, and alkalinity. I did a siphon and a pwc yesterday (Tuesday AEST) because of the amonia. I still have my 2 danios, 3 madakas and 1 white cloud. In there. And I feed them only every 2 or 3 days, to reduce the amount of fish waste produced and build up of uneaten food. And of course I siphon out uneaten food. I have a question. At this early stage, can I add a golden mystery snail to help keep the tank clean? Or will the cycle process kill it? And I still have diatobes on my tank's walls. How long will it take for them to go away? Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 10:01:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33980	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Question for Lenny - Gold Fish

Hi Lenny, Quick question for ya. My fiance just purchased a 10 g hexagonal tank and placed two gold fish in there: a lion's head and ryunin (sp). I did the water test on the first and second day and, at this stage, we are still zero on ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates as would be expected. We are feeding them pellet food that she wanted to use on the first day. My questions are two fold: first, during the initial cycling, should there be weekly water changes and if so what percent? Second, since I know little of gold fish, how many times a week should the little buggers be fed? BTW - I would estimate they are each 2-3 inches long in length and we are aware they will continue to grow and a larger tank will be needed in time thanks Ken **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33981	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help

Thanks for your reply. "Yes" to questions i-iv; the temperature issues arose when I raised the temp to facilitate ich treatment. Ketapang leaves are new to me. I do use a little melafix in the tank. (Tea tree oil, the main component, is useful for humans too - I use something similar to prevent shaving irritation). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chow Kwok Loong (Alan)" <hqtimes@...> wrote: > > > Hi Amsterbaum, > > I am sorry your platy is suffering from "stress". > > Some possibities to reduce stress for fishes: > > (i) Did you try to acclimitize the fish by floating the bag it is in , > before releasing into your tank? (the idea is to allow your platy to > adjust to the temperature of the fish tank water) > > (ii) Perhaps introducing water plants,filter or rocks for the platy to > hide might also help to reduce stress. > > (iii) Reduce the intensity of lightings of your aqaurium by changing to > a lighter tone of the florescent tube (blue/pinkish). Or prevent sudden > switching on of the lights by switching on the surrounding light before > you turn on fish tank lights. > > (iv) Include aquarium salt in the water for your platys. > Osmoregulation - another word for the physiological device fish use to > manage the amount of salt and fluids in their bodies. Freshwater fish > are saltier than the water they live in and their skin is semi- permeable > so, particularly when stressed, they can suffer from osmoregulatory > dysfunction i.e. start to lose body salts; this loss can be reduced > through the use of aquarium salt. > > (v) Lastly, Have you tried ketapang leaves (a.k.a Catappa/Indian > Almond) or other types of water conditioner in the market to condition > the water for your platys? > > You can try to google 'ketapang leaves' and you will find many of the > propeties of the ketapang leaves. There are some sites that even mention > aboutt he medicinal values for humans, but i won't recommand that to > treat, better to look for a doctor. :D > > Findings: > > "... the dried Ketapang leaves actually release organic acids like humic > and tannins which lowers the pH of the water, absorbs harmful chemicals > and help create a soothing and calm environment for the fish...." > [Taken from: bettysplendens.com ] > > "... the leaves contain several flavonoids > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavonoid> (like kamferol > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? title=Kamferol&action=edit&redlink=\ > 1> or quercetin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin> ), several > tannins <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin> (such as punicalin > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? title=Punicalin&action=edit&redlink\ > =1> , punicalagin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punicalagin> or > tercatin > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? title=Tercatin&action=edit&redlink=\ > 1> ), saponines > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? title=Saponine&action=edit&redlink=\ > 1> and phytosterols <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytosterol> . Due to > this chemical richness, the leaves (and also the bark) are used in > different traditional medicines > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_medicine> for various > purposes. For instances, in Taiwan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan> > fallen leaves are used as a herb to treat liver > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver> diseases. In Suriname > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname> , a tea made from the leaves is > prescribed against dysentery <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysentery> > and diarrhea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarrhea> . It is also > thought that the leaves contain agents for prevention of cancers > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> (although they have no > demonstrated anticarcinogenic properties) and antioxidant > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant> as well as anticlastogenic > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? title=Anticlastogenic&action=edit&r\ > edlink=1> characteristics..." > > [Taken from: en.wikipedia.org] > > Best Regards/ > > Alan Chow > > Ketapang Leaves Distributor from Singapore > > www.alanchow76.com/ketapang <http://www.alanchow76.com/ketapang> > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@> wrote: > > > > Here's a follow-up to my threads about ich and heaters: > > > > I brought home two platys (platies?) as starter fish for a new > > aquarium a little over two weeks ago. At least one of them > > contracted ich (the coloring of the other made it hard to tell), but > > responded successfully to treatment, which I continued for a total of > > about 10 days. I had difficulty adjusting the temperature of the > > tank, leading to drastic swings in temp (up to 87 F, down to about 67 > > F) over the course of several days at the end of the ich treatment. > > The tank has been at 76-78 degrees since Sunday, and frequent water > > tests have all been fine. > > > > As one of the previous posters noted, I shouldn't expect the fish to > > bounce back immediately, but I am really concerned about one of > > them. She swims briefly to the surface when startled, but spends > > most of the time on the gravel panting, with her fins so tighly > > clamped her tail appears pointy. Frequently she doesn't even support > > her body in the water, appearing "droopy." (Interestingly, this fish > > appeared more vigorous when we first brought them home, while the > > other fish spent more time on the bottom.) This is even several days > > after correcting the environmental conditions in the tank. Has a > > fish this stressed-out ever been known to recover? Anything I can do > > to coax her along, without doing more damage? > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33982	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny - Gold Fish

First of all, cycling a 10G tank with goldfish isn't going to be fun.. for you and certainly not for the fish. In two months, you will look back and say "Why didn't I fishless cycle???" If you can bring back the fish now, before you get attached, that would be best. Then buy a 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia and do a Fishless Cycle. A 10G really isn't big enough for a single goldfish and since goldfish grow their largest percentage of their growth in the first year of their life, this is when the stunting issues are the worst for them if they are not in proper sized tanks. If all you have room for is a 10G, then look at my blog for 10G tank stocking suggestions. I have a long article with hundreds of fish you could successfully keep long term in a 10G. If you really want a couple of fancy goldfish... and they are great fish with lots of personality... then get a 55G 48" x 12" footprint tank. Walmart.com sells a 55G starter kit for around $125.00 which includes the tank, filter, hood, lighting, heater (not really needed for goldfish but good to have in the event of Ich, etc.). Since you mentioned test results, do you have a master test kit or the dip sticks? If the dipsticks, put them on the side and go get a decent Master Test Kit (under $20.00 for either the API or Tetratest-Laborette kits at Walmart.com). You will be doing lots of testing.. daily or more often.. in the coming days and weeks and the dipsticks are not reliable enough to risk your fishes health over.. and they cost a heck of a lot more than a good Master Test Kit, when you look at total number of test performed by each. Is the 2" - 3" including the tail? It's best to measure fish as body length only since some fish will have long flowing tails but that really doesn't have anything to do with the fishes bioload. A 1" fish with a 2" tail is still a 1" fish.. kind of like my 70's days... my longer hair didn't make me taller.. maybe I should have done a mohawk! ;-) But.. if they are 2" to 3" bodies, they are not baby goldfish but are still juvis. When my fish were babies, I fed them several times (4-5) a day. As they grew, I cut back to 3-4 times a day and now only feed them twice a day as adults. If I don't feed them, they'll simply start eating my plants so it's easier for me to feed them so they only nibble at the plants. As far as your direct question about how often to do PWC's (partial water changes), this will be based on the water test results. For two goldfish in a 10G tank, at the height of the ammonia and nitrite cycles, you could be doing two 25% PWC's a day in order to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels low enough to not harm the fish (usually 1.0ppm or below depending on your pH and water temp). If you keep the goldfish in a 10G tank, you can forget about weekly PWC's.. you'll have to do several 25% PWC's a week to keep the water quality in decent shape in a 10G tank. With a 55G tank and two fancies, then you could get away with weekly tank maintenance. I use 25% PWC's as the standard... sometimes a larger or smaller percentage might be needed depending on the tank's water parameters versus the water sources water parameters and other factors. For example, if the tank's pH is 7.5 and the source water is 6.0, then you would only want to do 10% PWC's, so you do not change the pH of the tank too much, too fast.. same for hardness, temperature, etc... changing any of these factors too much, too fast can result in shock issues to the fish which can cause health problems up to and including death. Even if a fish keeper is negligent in testing and finds their tank with a high level of ammonia or nitrite, these should still be brought down with a series of small PWC's, versus one large one, since the fish slowly became acclimated to the bad water, they have to be slowly acclimated back to good water. If there was a situation where the tank got contaminated with laundry detergent or some other poisonous substance, then the fish should be removed immediately and a 100% water change and complete breakdown of the tank would be in order. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question for Lenny - Gold Fish Hi Lenny, Quick question for ya. My fiance just purchased a 10 g hexagonal tank and placed two gold fish in there: a lion's head and ryunin (sp). I did the water test on the first and second day and, at this stage, we are still zero on ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates as would be expected. We are feeding them pellet food that she wanted to use on the first day. My questions are two fold: first, during the initial cycling, should there be weekly water changes and if so what percent? Second, since I know little of gold fish, how many times a week should the little buggers be fed? BTW - I would estimate they are each 2-3 inches long in length and we are aware they will continue to grow and a larger tank will be needed in time thanks Ken _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 10:50:32 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33983	From: greychildren	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help

Hi guys I also have a platy question I lost my female sunburst platy yesterday...can platys die from giving birth to many times?, also i had her from more then a year id there life expand short? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > Thanks for your reply. "Yes" to questions i-iv; the temperature > issues arose when I raised the temp to facilitate ich treatment. > Ketapang leaves are new to me. I do use a little melafix in the > tank. (Tea tree oil, the main component, is useful for humans too - > I use something similar to prevent shaving irritation). > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chow Kwok Loong (Alan)" > <hqtimes@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amsterbaum, > > > > I am sorry your platy is suffering from "stress". > > > > Some possibities to reduce stress for fishes: > > > > (i) Did you try to acclimitize the fish by floating the bag it is > in , > > before releasing into your tank? (the idea is to allow your platy to > > adjust to the temperature of the fish tank water) > > > > (ii) Perhaps introducing water plants,filter or rocks for the platy > to > > hide might also help to reduce stress. > > > > (iii) Reduce the intensity of lightings of your aqaurium by > changing to > > a lighter tone of the florescent tube (blue/pinkish). Or prevent > sudden > > switching on of the lights by switching on the surrounding light > before > > you turn on fish tank lights. > > > > (iv) Include aquarium salt in the water for your platys. > > Osmoregulation - another word for the physiological device fish use > to > > manage the amount of salt and fluids in their bodies. Freshwater > fish > > are saltier than the water they live in and their skin is semi- > permeable > > so, particularly when stressed, they can suffer from osmoregulatory > > dysfunction i.e. start to lose body salts; this loss can be reduced > > through the use of aquarium salt. > > > > (v) Lastly, Have you tried ketapang leaves (a.k.a Catappa/Indian > > Almond) or other types of water conditioner in the market to > condition > > the water for your platys? > > > > You can try to google 'ketapang leaves' and you will find many of > the > > propeties of the ketapang leaves. There are some sites that even > mention > > aboutt he medicinal values for humans, but i won't recommand that to > > treat, better to look for a doctor. :D > > > > Findings: > > > > "... the dried Ketapang leaves actually release organic acids like > humic > > and tannins which lowers the pH of the water, absorbs harmful > chemicals > > and help create a soothing and calm environment for the fish...." > > [Taken from: bettysplendens.com ] > > > > "... the leaves contain several flavonoids > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavonoid> (like kamferol > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > title=Kamferol&action=edit&redlink=\ > > 1> or quercetin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin> ), several > > tannins <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin> (such as punicalin > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > title=Punicalin&action=edit&redlink\ > > =1> , punicalagin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punicalagin> or > > tercatin > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > title=Tercatin&action=edit&redlink=\ > > 1> ), saponines > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > title=Saponine&action=edit&redlink=\ > > 1> and phytosterols <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytosterol> . > Due to > > this chemical richness, the leaves (and also the bark) are used in > > different traditional medicines > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_medicine> for various > > purposes. For instances, in Taiwan > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan> > > fallen leaves are used as a herb to treat liver > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver> diseases. In Suriname > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname> , a tea made from the > leaves is > > prescribed against dysentery > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysentery> > > and diarrhea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarrhea> . It is also > > thought that the leaves contain agents for prevention of cancers > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> (although they have no > > demonstrated anticarcinogenic properties) and antioxidant > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant> as well as > anticlastogenic > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > title=Anticlastogenic&action=edit&r\ > > edlink=1> characteristics..." > > > > [Taken from: en.wikipedia.org] > > > > Best Regards/ > > > > Alan Chow > > > > Ketapang Leaves Distributor from Singapore > > > > www.alanchow76.com/ketapang <http://www.alanchow76.com/ketapang> > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@> > wrote: > > > > > > Here's a follow-up to my threads about ich and heaters: > > > > > > I brought home two platys (platies?) as starter fish for a new > > > aquarium a little over two weeks ago. At least one of them > > > contracted ich (the coloring of the other made it hard to tell), > but > > > responded successfully to treatment, which I continued for a > total of > > > about 10 days. I had difficulty adjusting the temperature of the > > > tank, leading to drastic swings in temp (up to 87 F, down to > about 67 > > > F) over the course of several days at the end of the ich > treatment. > > > The tank has been at 76-78 degrees since Sunday, and frequent > water > > > tests have all been fine. > > > > > > As one of the previous posters noted, I shouldn't expect the fish > to > > > bounce back immediately, but I am really concerned about one of > > > them. She swims briefly to the surface when startled, but spends > > > most of the time on the gravel panting, with her fins so tighly > > > clamped her tail appears pointy. Frequently she doesn't even > support > > > her body in the water, appearing "droopy." (Interestingly, this > fish > > > appeared more vigorous when we first brought them home, while the > > > other fish spent more time on the bottom.) This is even several > days > > > after correcting the environmental conditions in the tank. Has a > > > fish this stressed-out ever been known to recover? Anything I can > do > > > to coax her along, without doing more damage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help

According to my own Lifespan guide (see link below), Platy's should live 3 to 5 years, although there may be some that live longer. Giving birth is a stressful thing for fish and anything that causes stress will usually weaken the fishes immune system making them more susceptible to other health issues... so yes, giving birth could cause an earlier death in females versus males... unless optimum conditions were kept for the fish. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help Hi guys I also have a platy question I lost my female sunburst platy yesterday...can platys die from giving birth to many times?, also i had her from more then a year id there life expand short? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > Thanks for your reply. "Yes" to questions i-iv; the temperature issues > arose when I raised the temp to facilitate ich treatment. > Ketapang leaves are new to me. I do use a little melafix in the tank. > (Tea tree oil, the main component, is useful for humans too - I use > something similar to prevent shaving irritation). > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chow Kwok Loong (Alan)" > <hqtimes@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amsterbaum, > > > > I am sorry your platy is suffering from "stress". > > > > Some possibities to reduce stress for fishes: > > > > (i) Did you try to acclimitize the fish by floating the bag it is > in , > > before releasing into your tank? (the idea is to allow your platy to > > adjust to the temperature of the fish tank water) > > > > (ii) Perhaps introducing water plants,filter or rocks for the platy > to > > hide might also help to reduce stress. > > > > (iii) Reduce the intensity of lightings of your aqaurium by > changing to > > a lighter tone of the florescent tube (blue/pinkish). Or prevent > sudden > > switching on of the lights by switching on the surrounding light > before > > you turn on fish tank lights. > > > > (iv) Include aquarium salt in the water for your platys. > > Osmoregulation - another word for the physiological device fish use > to > > manage the amount of salt and fluids in their bodies. Freshwater > fish > > are saltier than the water they live in and their skin is semi- > permeable > > so, particularly when stressed, they can suffer from osmoregulatory > > dysfunction i.e. start to lose body salts; this loss can be reduced > > through the use of aquarium salt. > > > > (v) Lastly, Have you tried ketapang leaves (a.k.a Catappa/Indian > > Almond) or other types of water conditioner in the market to > condition > > the water for your platys? > > > > You can try to google 'ketapang leaves' and you will find many of > the > > propeties of the ketapang leaves. There are some sites that even > mention > > aboutt he medicinal values for humans, but i won't recommand that to > > treat, better to look for a doctor. :D > > > > Findings: > > > > "... the dried Ketapang leaves actually release organic acids like > humic > > and tannins which lowers the pH of the water, absorbs harmful > chemicals > > and help create a soothing and calm environment for the fish...." > > [Taken from: bettysplendens.com ] > > > > "... the leaves contain several flavonoids > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavonoid > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavonoid> > (like kamferol > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?> > title=Kamferol&action=edit&redlink=\ > > 1> or quercetin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin > > 1> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin> > ), several > > tannins <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin> > (such as punicalin > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?> > title=Punicalin&action=edit&redlink\ > > =1> , punicalagin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punicalagin > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punicalagin> > or tercatin > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?> > title=Tercatin&action=edit&redlink=\ > > 1> ), saponines > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?> > title=Saponine&action=edit&redlink=\ > > 1> and phytosterols <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytosterol <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytosterol <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytosterol> > > . > Due to > > this chemical richness, the leaves (and also the bark) are used in > > different traditional medicines > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_medicine > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_medicine> > for various > > purposes. For instances, in Taiwan > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan> > > > fallen leaves are used as a herb to treat liver > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver> > diseases. In Suriname > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname> > , a tea made from the > leaves is > > prescribed against dysentery > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysentery > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysentery> > > > and diarrhea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarrhea > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarrhea> > . It is also thought that > > the leaves contain agents for prevention of cancers > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> > (although they have no > > demonstrated anticarcinogenic properties) and antioxidant > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant> > as well as > anticlastogenic > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?> > title=Anticlastogenic&action=edit&r\ > > edlink=1> characteristics..." > > > > [Taken from: en.wikipedia.org] > > > > Best Regards/ > > > > Alan Chow > > > > Ketapang Leaves Distributor from Singapore > > > > www.alanchow76.com/ketapang <http://www.alanchow76.com/ketapang > > <http://www.alanchow76.com/ketapang> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@> > wrote: > > > > > > Here's a follow-up to my threads about ich and heaters: > > > > > > I brought home two platys (platies?) as starter fish for a new > > > aquarium a little over two weeks ago. At least one of them > > > contracted ich (the coloring of the other made it hard to tell), > but > > > responded successfully to treatment, which I continued for a > total of > > > about 10 days. I had difficulty adjusting the temperature of the > > > tank, leading to drastic swings in temp (up to 87 F, down to > about 67 > > > F) over the course of several days at the end of the ich > treatment. > > > The tank has been at 76-78 degrees since Sunday, and frequent > water > > > tests have all been fine. > > > > > > As one of the previous posters noted, I shouldn't expect the fish > to > > > bounce back immediately, but I am really concerned about one of > > > them. She swims briefly to the surface when startled, but spends > > > most of the time on the gravel panting, with her fins so tighly > > > clamped her tail appears pointy. Frequently she doesn't even > support > > > her body in the water, appearing "droopy." (Interestingly, this > fish > > > appeared more vigorous when we first brought them home, while the > > > other fish spent more time on the bottom.) This is even several > days > > > after correcting the environmental conditions in the tank. Has a > > > fish this stressed-out ever been known to recover? Anything I can > do > > > to coax her along, without doing more damage? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 12:21:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33985	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Lenny - question about my cycle

I have a 75 gallon tank using about 45 gallons of water (using top half for amphib life in time) and am in the 10th day of cycling. Ammonia holding steady at .25 ppm and nitrites not yet developing. Really, two questions, when should I start doing PWC...is it dictated by the level of ammonia and, if so, what level of ammonia should be the trigger for pwc. Also a general question regarding ammonia and nitrites. Assuming a ph of 7.6, what is the level of nitrites and ammonia that would be considered dangerous and require a PWC. I've seen different #'s and ofcourse I assume it varies by fish so for Neon Tetra Cory Catfish Sail Fin Mollies what are considered the dangerous levels? I ofcourse will do weekly pwc's when the tank is cycled but want some general guidelines so I have a loose guide to follow thanks Ken **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33986	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

Try charcoal and ash as medicines. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon \\Steve//, Your Google search for the history did not work for all of us IE users. I was surprised to see Firefox and Mozilla included in the search's URL, even with the TinyURL. Hmmmm.. actually I take it back. I just did my own Google search on - history of activated carbon - and my search URL also includes the words Firefox and Mozilla so I'm not sure why your search link didn't work... nor am I sure why those terms are in a Google search URL. A Google search of for a reason did not come up with anything definitive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon On Thanksgiving Day, my brother-in-law was joking, at least I think he was joking, about missing "The History of Activated Carbon", which immediately followed "The History of Synthetic Rubber" on TV. He is an organic chemist, so he would, at least, have a peripheral interest in such shows. So, anyhow, to chill his smugness over his little joke, I had a few minutes today to search the Web and found several sites covering the history of activated carbon, as well as other aspects of the substance. I did run across this PowerPoint presentation on activated carbon that may be of interest to the people here. However, to forewarn you, you will need to bear with one slide with a very brief history of activated carbon <g>. www.aqualitysymposium.org/ppts/physicalphysiocemprocesses/CHOROMANSKI%20 activated%20carbo.ppt TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/6z3e9l <http://tinyurl.com/6z3e9l> If you are truly curious, here is the search I did on Google for the history, and it will turn up a lot of other interesting stuff as well: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mo> &client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mo <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mo> &client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mo> zilla:en-US:official&q=%22Activated+carbon%22+history&start=0&sa=N TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/663n7q <http://tinyurl.com/663n7q> \\Steve// _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 7:30:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33987	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny - question about my cycle

While some fish might tolerate ammonia/nitrite better than others, there is NO safe level... except for 0.0ppm. This page shows the various moderate/toxic/danger levels of ammonia depending on the pH and water temp. You can't assume these... but since you mentioned 7.6, you'll need to keep the ammonia levels no higher than 0.5 ppm to keep it from getting into the toxic range at temps between 74F and 80F. If your water is cooler than 74F, then you could probably let it get up to 1.0ppm... same if your pH is less than 7.6. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html Nitrites should also be kept below 1.0ppm and a pinch of salt per 10G added to the tank to help protect against nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder). When you decide to cycle with fish... or get stuck with it if a newbie getting bad advice from a pet/fish store... you unfortunately have to put the fish through some level of ammonia and eventually nitrites so the tank will go through the nitrogen cycle. Dependent on the above factors, the bioload of the tank and test results... these are the things that will determine how often you have to do 25% PWC's. There's no set figure since every situation of Cycling With Fish is different. I've seen people that were doing 3 or 4 25% PWC's a day to keep the levels safe enough to not cause harm to the fish. The higher the bioload on the tank when cycling with fish, the more work involved in keeping the chemistry safe for the fish. I'm confused though.. at first you mentioned goldfish.. didn't you... and now you mention three different tropical fish. Try to leave the preceding messages attached to your replies since I do not try to memorize everybody's situations. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny - question about my cycle I have a 75 gallon tank using about 45 gallons of water (using top half for amphib life in time) and am in the 10th day of cycling. Ammonia holding steady at .25 ppm and nitrites not yet developing. Really, two questions, when should I start doing PWC...is it dictated by the level of ammonia and, if so, what level of ammonia should be the trigger for pwc. Also a general question regarding ammonia and nitrites. Assuming a ph of 7.6, what is the level of nitrites and ammonia that would be considered dangerous and require a PWC. I've seen different #'s and ofcourse I assume it varies by fish so for Neon Tetra Cory Catfish Sail Fin Mollies what are considered the dangerous levels? I ofcourse will do weekly pwc's when the tank is cycled but want some general guidelines so I have a loose guide to follow thanks Ken _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 1:23:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33988	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny - Gold Fish

thanks, sadly my wife is already attached so they cant go back. Nonetheless, you gave some good advice. It seems that it is important to keep the ammonia below 1 ppm and to measure it daily. If the ammonia hits .75 to 1 then a good 25% pwc is needed. As for feeding, it sounds like a 2x a day feeding is acceptable (morning and night) and will begin that immediately. Ken **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33989	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny - question about my cycle

thanks for the advice. I have 2 tanks (the 75 g tropical and the 10 g gold fish) and wanted to address each one seperately. Ken **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33990	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Lenny - question about my cycle

Sounds like you need to switch the fish around... goldfish in the BIG tank! ;-) Just so you know, a single adult 6" to 8" fancy goldfish is equal in body mass to around 500 1" goldfish... this is why they need lots of water volume to dilute their ammonia output. You certainly wouldn't put 500 1" goldfish in a 10G tank. Technically, even the minimum tank sizes that I promote are on the small size which is why lots of good filtration and weekly tank/filter maintenance is needed to keep them in good shape. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny - question about my cycle thanks for the advice. I have 2 tanks (the 75 g tropical and the 10 g gold fish) and wanted to address each one seperately. Ken _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 2:18:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33991	From: jett07002	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help

Going along with what Lenny just said, keep in mind that it is also an issue with your aquarium. If it isn't large enough and doesn't have any places for the female to hide and take a rest, the males will be almost constantly after her and she will be "forever pregnant". This could be a BIG reason for the fish's ill health or demise. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > According to my own Lifespan guide (see link below), Platy's should live 3 > to 5 years, although there may be some that live longer. Giving birth is a > stressful thing for fish and anything that causes stress will usually weaken > the fishes immune system making them more susceptible to other health > issues... so yes, giving birth could cause an earlier death in females > versus males... unless optimum conditions were kept for the fish. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Lifespan > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might > help > > Hi guys > > I also have a platy question > > I lost my female sunburst platy yesterday...can platys die from giving birth > to many times?, also i had her from more then a year id there life expand > short? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@> wrote: > > > > Thanks for your reply. "Yes" to questions i-iv; the temperature issues > > arose when I raised the temp to facilitate ich treatment. > > Ketapang leaves are new to me. I do use a little melafix in the tank. > > (Tea tree oil, the main component, is useful for humans too - I use > > something similar to prevent shaving irritation). > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "Chow Kwok Loong (Alan)" > > <hqtimes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Amsterbaum, > > > > > > I am sorry your platy is suffering from "stress". > > > > > > Some possibities to reduce stress for fishes: > > > > > > (i) Did you try to acclimitize the fish by floating the bag it is > > in , > > > before releasing into your tank? (the idea is to allow your platy to > > > adjust to the temperature of the fish tank water) > > > > > > (ii) Perhaps introducing water plants,filter or rocks for the platy > > to > > > hide might also help to reduce stress. > > > > > > (iii) Reduce the intensity of lightings of your aqaurium by > > changing to > > > a lighter tone of the florescent tube (blue/pinkish). Or prevent > > sudden > > > switching on of the lights by switching on the surrounding light > > before > > > you turn on fish tank lights. > > > > > > (iv) Include aquarium salt in the water for your platys. > > > Osmoregulation - another word for the physiological device fish use > > to > > > manage the amount of salt and fluids in their bodies. Freshwater > > fish > > > are saltier than the water they live in and their skin is semi- > > permeable > > > so, particularly when stressed, they can suffer from osmoregulatory > > > dysfunction i.e. start to lose body salts; this loss can be reduced > > > through the use of aquarium salt. > > > > > > (v) Lastly, Have you tried ketapang leaves (a.k.a Catappa/Indian > > > Almond) or other types of water conditioner in the market to > > condition > > > the water for your platys? > > > > > > You can try to google 'ketapang leaves' and you will find many of > > the > > > propeties of the ketapang leaves. There are some sites that even > > mention > > > aboutt he medicinal values for humans, but i won't recommand that to > > > treat, better to look for a doctor. :D > > > > > > Findings: > > > > > > "... the dried Ketapang leaves actually release organic acids like > > humic > > > and tannins which lowers the pH of the water, absorbs harmful > > chemicals > > > and help create a soothing and calm environment for the fish...." > > > [Taken from: bettysplendens.com ] > > > > > > "... the leaves contain several flavonoids > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavonoid > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavonoid> > (like kamferol > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?> > > title=Kamferol&action=edit&redlink=\ > > > 1> or quercetin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin > > > 1> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin> > ), several > > > tannins <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin> > (such as punicalin > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?> > > title=Punicalin&action=edit&redlink\ > > > =1> , punicalagin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punicalagin > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punicalagin> > or tercatin > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?> > > title=Tercatin&action=edit&redlink=\ > > > 1> ), saponines > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?> > > title=Saponine&action=edit&redlink=\ > > > 1> and phytosterols <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytosterol > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytosterol > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytosterol> > > . > > Due to > > > this chemical richness, the leaves (and also the bark) are used in > > > different traditional medicines > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_medicine > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_medicine> > for various > > > purposes. For instances, in Taiwan > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan> > > > > fallen leaves are used as a herb to treat liver > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver> > diseases. In Suriname > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname> > , a tea made from the > > leaves is > > > prescribed against dysentery > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysentery > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysentery> > > > > and diarrhea <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarrhea > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarrhea> > . It is also thought that > > > the leaves contain agents for prevention of cancers > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> > (although they have no > > > demonstrated anticarcinogenic properties) and antioxidant > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant> > as well as > > anticlastogenic > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?> > > title=Anticlastogenic&action=edit&r\ > > > edlink=1> characteristics..." > > > > > > [Taken from: en.wikipedia.org] > > > > > > Best Regards/ > > > > > > Alan Chow > > > > > > Ketapang Leaves Distributor from Singapore > > > > > > www.alanchow76.com/ketapang <http://www.alanchow76.com/ketapang > > > <http://www.alanchow76.com/ketapang> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Here's a follow-up to my threads about ich and heaters: > > > > > > > > I brought home two platys (platies?) as starter fish for a new > > > > aquarium a little over two weeks ago. At least one of them > > > > contracted ich (the coloring of the other made it hard to tell), > > but > > > > responded successfully to treatment, which I continued for a > > total of > > > > about 10 days. I had difficulty adjusting the temperature of the > > > > tank, leading to drastic swings in temp (up to 87 F, down to > > about 67 > > > > F) over the course of several days at the end of the ich > > treatment. > > > > The tank has been at 76-78 degrees since Sunday, and frequent > > water > > > > tests have all been fine. > > > > > > > > As one of the previous posters noted, I shouldn't expect the fish > > to > > > > bounce back immediately, but I am really concerned about one of > > > > them. She swims briefly to the surface when startled, but spends > > > > most of the time on the gravel panting, with her fins so tighly > > > > clamped her tail appears pointy. Frequently she doesn't even > > support > > > > her body in the water, appearing "droopy." (Interestingly, this > > fish > > > > appeared more vigorous when we first brought them home, while the > > > > other fish spent more time on the bottom.) This is even several > > days > > > > after correcting the environmental conditions in the tank. Has a > > > > fish this stressed-out ever been known to recover? Anything I can > > do > > > > to coax her along, without doing more damage? > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 > Tested on: 12/3/2008 12:21:47 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33992	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Single species tank...

Sorry, I should have said west Africans, and my next email added the small Julie species. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Single species tank... Donna, Let's see, just off the top of my head, you have the members of the _Julidichromis_ genus, embers of the _Pelvicachromis_ genus, and more that could well take a pair and some young in a 22 gallon tank. I know that there are others, but I am not really into cichlids at this time. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:44 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Single species tank... No African cichlids except shellies could be housed in a 22G long tank. Shellies are very interesting and cute but bottom-dwelling and not colorful. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 10:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Single species tank... Hi all. Just me asking about species again. Ok, so we've covered community tanks. But if I wanted to do a single species tank, preferably a species that has lots of colour, is mid to top dwelling, and are active, where would be a good place to start? I love gouramis... Could I do an African or America cichlid tank? Remembering my tank is 22gal long, moderately planted (with silk plants) has good U/G filtration and is heated at 24*C The substrate is white gravel, no background yet. And the light is soon to come. This is what I can get...or close to it. http://www.fishandf <http://www.fishandf <http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg> ins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg> ins.co.uk/images/clearseal-consort-hood.jpg Live plants would be hornwort or frogbit, for floating cover. Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33993	From: motherbear20091	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: I new here

Hello everyone thanks for letting me be apart of the group. Its very nice to be here. I have a few fish of my own. I have two Oscars 4 African cichlids and few guppies they guppies are in another tank. The Oscars are in a 90 gallon and so are the African cichlids. I think fish are such cool pets I the fish. Anyway thanks for letting me be apart of the group. Sign Amy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33994	From: Lisa	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Australian blue yabbies/crawfish

I meant to ask, what would be a compatible species with an Australian blue yabby? I was thinking a couple of dwarf gouramis, some swordtails, platies and a red tail shark. Anything else? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 8:27:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Australian blue yabbies/crawfish

The crawfish will probably like any fish that you add... especially late at night when the fish are sleeping so he can catch them easier. ;-) They probably prefer slower moving fish though since they are even easier to catch. Do a Google on - what fish are compatible with crawfish - (or substitute yabby for crawfish). You will find the same answers. They are best kept in species only tanks and only if the tanks are larger enough for more than one. Otherwise when one of them molts, the other might just eat him too. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Australian blue yabbies/crawfish I meant to ask, what would be a compatible species with an Australian blue yabby? I was thinking a couple of dwarf gouramis, some swordtails, platies and a red tail shark. Anything else? Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 8:34:04 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33997	From: dtrc rc	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Australian blue yabbies/crawfish

i keep crayfish with my piranhas and any other aggressive fish --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Australian blue yabbies/crawfish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 8:11 PM I meant to ask, what would be a compatible species with an Australian blue yabby? I was thinking a couple of dwarf gouramis, some swordtails, platies and a red tail shark. Anything else? Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33998	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 8:27:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 33999	From: Alan Chow	Date: 12/3/2008
Subject: Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help

Hi all,   What Joe said about being constantly being pregnant makes sense too, especialy if there no hiding places for the female to rest. Anther way to reduce stress for platy is to follow the ratio of 2 female: 1 male (like guppy) so that the males will not be chasing after the same female all the time.   As regards Ketapang Leaves (aka Catappa/ Indian Almond), they have been used for many years on breeding fishes like bettas, guppy, arrowana ,etc. However the 2nd link I provided below , the forum indicates that the Ketapang leaves might not be suitable for Platys as the pH value will be too low for Platys.   Try to google it and you find many interesting findings about ketapang leaves for other fishes.   Links : 1)http://www.koi.com.my/forum/KOI_Talk_C1/Pond_Water_Quality_F3/Safe_way_to_bring_ph_down_P1592/ 2) http://www.fishforum.com/freshwater-aquarium-equipment/ketapang-leaves-4324/  3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminalia_catappa               \\|//        (@-@) -------oOO---OOo-------   Alan Chow Ketpang Leaves Information & Sale Link:  www.alanchow76.com/ketapang     --- On Thu, 4/12/08, jett07002 <jett07002@...> wrote: From: jett07002 <jett07002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might help To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 4 December, 2008, 5:14 AM Going along with what Lenny just said, keep in mind that it is also an issue with your aquarium. If it isn't large enough and doesn't have any places for the female to hide and take a rest, the males will be almost constantly after her and she will be "forever pregnant". This could be a BIG reason for the fish's ill health or demise. joe t --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > According to my own Lifespan guide (see link below), Platy's should live 3 > to 5 years, although there may be some that live longer. Giving birth is a > stressful thing for fish and anything that causes stress will usually weaken > the fishes immune system making them more susceptible to other health > issues... so yes, giving birth could cause an earlier death in females > versus males... unless optimum conditions were kept for the fish. > http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/search/ label/Lifespan > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: stressed platy - use of water conditoner might > help > > Hi guys > > I also have a platy question > > I lost my female sunburst platy yesterday... can platys die from giving birth > to many times?, also i had her from more then a year id there life expand > short? > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , > "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@ > wrote: > > > > Thanks for your reply. "Yes" to questions i-iv; the temperature issues > > arose when I raised the temp to facilitate ich treatment. > > Ketapang leaves are new to me. I do use a little melafix in the tank. > > (Tea tree oil, the main component, is useful for humans too - I use > > something similar to prevent shaving irritation). > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > , "Chow Kwok Loong (Alan)" > > <hqtimes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Amsterbaum, > > > > > > I am sorry your platy is suffering from "stress". > > > > > > Some possibities to reduce stress for fishes: > > > > > > (i) Did you try to acclimitize the fish by floating the bag it is > > in , > > > before releasing into your tank? (the idea is to allow your platy to > > > adjust to the temperature of the fish tank water) > > > > > > (ii) Perhaps introducing water plants,filter or rocks for the platy > > to > > > hide might also help to reduce stress. > > > > > > (iii) Reduce the intensity of lightings of your aqaurium by > > changing to > > > a lighter tone of the florescent tube (blue/pinkish) . Or prevent > > sudden > > > switching on of the lights by switching on the surrounding light > > before > > > you turn on fish tank lights. > > > > > > (iv) Include aquarium salt in the water for your platys. > > > Osmoregulation - another word for the physiological device fish use > > to > > > manage the amount of salt and fluids in their bodies. Freshwater > > fish > > > are saltier than the water they live in and their skin is semi- > > permeable > > > so, particularly when stressed, they can suffer from osmoregulatory > > > dysfunction i.e. start to lose body salts; this loss can be reduced > > > through the use of aquarium salt. > > > > > > (v) Lastly, Have you tried ketapang leaves (a.k.a Catappa/Indian > > > Almond) or other types of water conditioner in the market to > > condition > > > the water for your platys? > > > > > > You can try to google 'ketapang leaves' and you will find many of > > the > > > propeties of the ketapang leaves. There are some sites that even > > mention > > > aboutt he medicinal values for humans, but i won't recommand that to > > > treat, better to look for a doctor. :D > > > > > > Findings: > > > > > > "... the dried Ketapang leaves actually release organic acids like > > humic > > > and tannins which lowers the pH of the water, absorbs harmful > > chemicals > > > and help create a soothing and calm environment for the fish...." > > > [Taken from: bettysplendens. com ] > > > >  > > > > Best Regards/ > > > > > > Alan Chow > > > > > > Ketapang Leaves Distributor from Singapore > > > > > > www.alanchow76. com/ketapang  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Here's a follow-up to my threads about ich and heaters: > > > > > > > > I brought home two platys (platies?) as starter fish for a new > > > > aquarium a little over two weeks ago. At least one of them > > > > contracted ich (the coloring of the other made it hard to tell), > > but > > > > responded successfully to treatment, which I continued for a > > total of > > > > about 10 days. I had difficulty adjusting the temperature of the > > > > tank, leading to drastic swings in temp (up to 87 F, down to > > about 67 > > > > F) over the course of several days at the end of the ich > > treatment. > > > > The tank has been at 76-78 degrees since Sunday, and frequent > > water > > > > tests have all been fine. > > > > > > > > As one of the previous posters noted, I shouldn't expect the fish > > to > > > > bounce back immediately, but I am really concerned about one of > > > > them. She swims briefly to the surface when startled, but spends > > > > most of the time on the gravel panting, with her fins so tighly > > > > clamped her tail appears pointy. Frequently she doesn't even > > support > > > > her body in the water, appearing "droopy." (Interestingly, this > > fish > > > > appeared more vigorous when we first brought them home, while the > > > > other fish spent more time on the bottom.) This is even several > > days > > > > after correcting the environmental conditions in the tank. Has a > > > > fish this stressed-out ever been known to recover? Anything I can > > do > > > > to coax her along, without doing more damage? > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 > Tested on: 12/3/2008 12:21:47 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > Importing contacts has never been easier..Bring your friends over to Yahoo! Mail today! http://www.trueswitch.com/yahoo-sg [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34000	From: Alan Chow	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

Hi Fish Hobbyists,   Thought below is a good article for those who are thinking of using activated carbon: Wonder if any of you have a cheap method of recycling/regenerating the activated carbon at this point of time?   "...keep in mind the holding capacity of carbon can become exhausted. Its physical adsorption bonds are weak, such as those formed by the Van der Waals forces. When carbon reaches exhaustion, desorption or leaching of the adsorbates can return them back into the system's bulk water. This is important. This means carbon can unload a portion of what has collected back into solution. Therefore, when carbon is being used in the aquarium I recommend not going too long without replacing it. A safe schedule for most aquariums would be changing it every four to eight weeks. It's better to replace it with fresh carbon on a regular basis, than have it become the root of a problem. Finally, it's not practical for the aquarist to regenerate carbon as it would require being heated to over 900°E Something the spouse may not like the oven used for. I know because I tried it! Under ideal conditions, activated carbon can remove up to 50°/ of its own weight in dissolved organic compounds. It's simply better to discard it and replace with new carbon than messing with it..."         \\|//        (@-@) -------oOO---OOo-------   Alan Chow   KETAPANG LEAVES FOR FISH & BETTAS www.alanchow76.com/ketapang   --- On Thu, 4/12/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 4 December, 2008, 2:43 AM Try charcoal and ash as medicines. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon \\Steve//, Your Google search for the history did not work for all of us IE users. I was surprised to see Firefox and Mozilla included in the search's URL, even with the TinyURL. Hmmmm.. actually I take it back. I just did my own Google search on - history of activated carbon - and my search URL also includes the words Firefox and Mozilla so I'm not sure why your search link didn't work... nor am I sure why those terms are in a Google search URL. A Google search of for a reason did not come up with anything definitive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon On Thanksgiving Day, my brother-in-law was joking, at least I think he was joking, about missing "The History of Activated Carbon", which immediately followed "The History of Synthetic Rubber" on TV. He is an organic chemist, so he would, at least, have a peripheral interest in such shows. So, anyhow, to chill his smugness over his little joke, I had a few minutes today to search the Web and found several sites covering the history of activated carbon, as well as other aspects of the substance. I did run across this PowerPoint presentation on activated carbon that may be of interest to the people here. However, to forewarn you, you will need to bear with one slide with a very brief history of activated carbon <g>. www.aqualitysymposi um.org/ppts/ physicalphysioce mprocesses/ CHOROMANSKI% 20 activated%20carbo. ppt TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6z3e9l <http://tinyurl. com/6z3e9l> If you are truly curious, here is the search I did on Google for the history, and it will turn up a lot of other interesting stuff as well: http://www.google. com/search? hl=en <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en&client= firefox-a& channel=s& rls=org.mo> &client=firefox- a&channel= s&rls=org. mo <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en&client= firefox-a& channel=s& rls=org.mo> &client=firefox- a&channel= s&rls=org. mo> zilla:en-US: official& q=%22Activated+ carbon%22+ history&start= 0&sa=N TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/663n7q <http://tinyurl. com/663n7q> \\Steve// _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081201-0, 12/01/2008 Tested on: 12/1/2008 7:30:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @... and @... http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34001	From: theyxcallxmexl	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: baby molly fish

at how old or how big do molly fish have to be before you can tell there sex and when they can mate i have baby mollys in there own tank the only a week old but i wanna no so i can seperat the boys and girls cuase i dont wnat any more babies right now thanks ~`~LOW~`~

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34002	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: update on ich treatments

On day 3 of 87ish heat (sometimes it goes up to 88). I'm currently up to 25 Tablespoons of salt (even TBS not heaping) total. I'm working my way up to 125 tablespoons (which is what Lenny suggested for my 125 gallon tank, 375 teaspoons). I'm gonna be out of rock salt before winter even hits, LOL. No more casualties since sunday night when I lost the gourami and glofish danio. All fish appear happy and normal (hungry). Apparently someone in the tank got so hungry that they ate my wisteria plants, LOL. No wonder the LFS calls it "water lettuce" ;). I still haven't located the missing long finned blue ram, and I have moved all the decorations to look under them, perhaps someone picked him apart after death. The one that is missing was showing ich very noticeably on saturday night, but I haven't seen the fish since then, so I assume it died over the weekend when I had my other casualties. Do I need to do a 25% PWC every day during this ich treatment? I did a PWC last night, but skipped a day earlier this week. I ordered an aquaclear 110 earlier this week, hoping it gets here in the near future so I can get my 55 gallon tank up and going again ;) I can always use it without gravel as a quarantine tank in the meantime. I found a seller on ebay that had them for a little over $50 dollars plus shipping, which is definately a good deal, I spent $64 (and some change) on it including shipping. I also need to get some more square pin CFL lights for my hood, I have the shop light hooked up in there for now to give it enough light. My LFS doesn't have the right kind of bulbs and I'm tempted to order them on Marinedepot.com since they have them on sale for over 50% off, but I worry how they will arrive through the USPS *cringe*, last 2 fragile shipments from DFS.com arrived broken through the USPS. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34003	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: logistics of cleaning gravel

Here's a newbie question: Is it expected for all the tank decorations and (plastic) plantings to become dislodged when vacuuming gravel? If not, how do you clean thoroughly without moving everything around?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34004	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Glofish

Does anyone else have glofish?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34005	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel

The rocks and décor should be added to the tank before the gravel so you don’t have to vacuum under them. It’s safer for the fish they can’t dig underneath and topple anything. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] logistics of cleaning gravel Here's a newbie question: Is it expected for all the tank decorations and (plastic) plantings to become dislodged when vacuuming gravel? If not, how do you clean thoroughly without moving everything around? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34006	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: baby molly fish

I'm not sure how old they have to be but this page has pictures of a male (left) and female (right) so you can see the gonopodium of the male which is basically where the anal fin forms a tube instead of a regular fin like on the female. http://fish.orbust.net/livebearers.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theyxcallxmexl Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] baby molly fish at how old or how big do molly fish have to be before you can tell there sex and when they can mate i have baby mollys in there own tank the only a week old but i wanna no so i can seperat the boys and girls cuase i dont wnat any more babies right now thanks ~`~LOW~`~ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/4/2008 7:08:33 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34007	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: update on ich treatments

Yeah.. now you know why we recommend a 10G tank for a Q-tank or H-tank (except for BIG fish)... it's a lot easier to treat 10G of water over 125G of water but I know you didn't have much of a choice this time. ;-) Definitely get a spare 10G or even a clear Sterilite plastic storage box to use in the future. At least the storage box can be used for clothes storage until needed but don't put anything in there that might cause problems.. so no cleaning supplies or other household chemicals. You know.. I forgot you had live plants in the tank. I hope they do OK with the salt. Some plants do OK, others do not. There's no need to do PWC's unless you have ammonia/nitrite issues or other water quality issues or if your fish start showing signs of distress from the salt treatment, then a PWC to lower the salinity level might be in order. Was the AC-110 for the big tank or for the 55G? It's a big filter system for a 55G tank unless you were going with fish that like/need very fast water movement. I'm guessing it's for your 125G as a secondary system. Of course, you could use it and throttle it back so it's not putting out 100%. $50.00 is a good price. Hope you win it! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments On day 3 of 87ish heat (sometimes it goes up to 88). I'm currently up to 25 Tablespoons of salt (even TBS not heaping) total. I'm working my way up to 125 tablespoons (which is what Lenny suggested for my 125 gallon tank, 375 teaspoons). I'm gonna be out of rock salt before winter even hits, LOL. No more casualties since sunday night when I lost the gourami and glofish danio. All fish appear happy and normal (hungry). Apparently someone in the tank got so hungry that they ate my wisteria plants, LOL. No wonder the LFS calls it "water lettuce" ;). I still haven't located the missing long finned blue ram, and I have moved all the decorations to look under them, perhaps someone picked him apart after death. The one that is missing was showing ich very noticeably on saturday night, but I haven't seen the fish since then, so I assume it died over the weekend when I had my other casualties. Do I need to do a 25% PWC every day during this ich treatment? I did a PWC last night, but skipped a day earlier this week. I ordered an aquaclear 110 earlier this week, hoping it gets here in the near future so I can get my 55 gallon tank up and going again ;) I can always use it without gravel as a quarantine tank in the meantime. I found a seller on ebay that had them for a little over $50 dollars plus shipping, which is definately a good deal, I spent $64 (and some change) on it including shipping. I also need to get some more square pin CFL lights for my hood, I have the shop light hooked up in there for now to give it enough light. My LFS doesn't have the right kind of bulbs and I'm tempted to order them on Marinedepot.com since they have them on sale for over 50% off, but I worry how they will arrive through the USPS *cringe*, last 2 fragile shipments from DFS.com arrived broken through the USPS. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/4/2008 7:38:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34008	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel

I only move stuff around about once a month or so but I do vacuum around each decoration and angle the tube so it's kind of sucking from under the decoration also. You'll learn which decorations need to be moved/cleaned under more often after you clean under them the first time and you see which ones had the most detritus under them. When it's time, the best thing is to have the Python or siphon going with one hand and then tilt the item and be siphoning at the same time to get as much of any stirred up detritus right away and then lift it up, get the rest and put it right back in place right afterwards. If you don't like getting your arms wet, they sell the Aquatic Gardener kit (Tom's Aquarium Products is the one I have) that comes in a couple of lengths and has either a claw or a scissors attachment. The scissors for pruning plants and the claw for grabbing stuff and moving it without getting wet. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] logistics of cleaning gravel Here's a newbie question: Is it expected for all the tank decorations and (plastic) plantings to become dislodged when vacuuming gravel? If not, how do you clean thoroughly without moving everything around? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/4/2008 7:44:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34009	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish

A few members do have the GloFish Zebra Danios. We've discussed them a lot recently if you do a search in the Messages page on the group's website, you'll see the discussions. Anything in particular you wanted to know? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish Does anyone else have glofish? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/4/2008 7:46:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34010	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish

I have 3 goldfish -----Original Message----- From: *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 7:47 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish Does anyone else have glofish? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34011	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel

I can give you my response that has worked. I sewing suction cups to a lot of mine using fishing line. They stick to the bottom and I sewed them tight. After cleaning I just cover them up as necessary, but they have stayed in place. Suction cups can be found from dollar stores to ebay. Your choice and hope this helps . Philip --- On Thu, 12/4/08, amsterbaum <amsterbaum@...> wrote: From: amsterbaum <amsterbaum@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] logistics of cleaning gravel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 7:27 PM Here's a newbie question: Is it expected for all the tank decorations and (plastic) plantings to become dislodged when vacuuming gravel? If not, how do you clean thoroughly without moving everything around? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34012	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: German blue rams

Big Tank 50 or more gallons, yes, any smaller than that no. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Are German Blue rams compatible with Dwarf gorami, danios and platys? > And all I need is a simple yes or no thanks. LoL > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34013	From: jett07002	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: im my fish ok in her breeder net

That's really hard to say. I don't know your situation. It sounds like you cannot put another tank in the room you have. Getting the other tank is really the best solution. If you can't, I guess you will have to take your chances with the breeder net. I personally do not like that because it is like putting her in jail. Sooner or later you have to take her out, so just do what you feel you must do. Trying to save all the babies means you are going to have more and more fish. LOL If you do not have room for the fish you have what are you going to do with all the extra fish (the babies)? Especially when they grow. You definitely can not keep them all in the same tank with the other fish. It will be too, too crowded. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "theyxcallxmexl" <theyxcallxmexl@...> wrote: > > thanks joe > i have been loking for a fivegallon tank for my > female to have babeis in but > no one carrys them i went to wal mart > and to pet store the smallest they have is a 10g > and i have no room for a ten but > if she doesent have her babies in the next 3 days where should i put > her > cuz if i put her back in her own tank the males will > bug her to no end > my other tank has tiger bards and that would be a big mistake puting > her in there > and the other has mollies and last time i mixed them with another fish > they > killed it so what should i do if she dont have her babeis soon? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34014	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish

Yes I have 6 of them. Amber *Carol Lynn* wrote: > > Does anyone else have glofish? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34015	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish

Coolness. It's hard to find info on them for some reason...lol. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 8:37:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Glofish Yes I have 6 of them. Amber *Carol Lynn* wrote: > > Does anyone else have glofish? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34016	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish

Yeah....what kind of fish can I put in with them? Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 8:46:13 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glofish A few members do have the GloFish Zebra Danios. We've discussed them a lot recently if you do a search in the Messages page on the group's website, you'll see the discussions. Anything in particular you wanted to know? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish Does anyone else have glofish? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/4/2008 7:46:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34017	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish

www.glofish.com They are good community fish, but if you get too many of the little guys they can pick on other fish (at least mine do when I had 7 of them, now that I have 6 they aren't so bad, something about strength in numbers, LOL). They are very fast so even in with my semi-aggressive fish they don't get picked on much since they are too fast for my other fish to even get. They are very comical fish, I enjoy watching them, they remind me of colorful little clowns ;) Amber Carol Lynn wrote: > > Yeah....what kind of fish can I put in with them? > > Carol Lynn Cumberland > childofgod19832003@... <mailto:childofgod19832003%40yahoo.com> > > ________________________________ > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 8:46:13 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glofish > > A few members do have the GloFish Zebra Danios. We've discussed them a lot > recently if you do a search in the Messages page on the group's website, > you'll see the discussions. Anything in particular you wanted to know? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish > > Does anyone else have glofish? > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 > Tested on: 12/4/2008 7:46:12 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34018	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish

Here's a good profile on Zebra Danios. I saw in another post that you also asked about what could go with them. Read over this profile and you'll see the SC section (Suggested Companions) with other fish species that typically do well with ZD's. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Brachydanio_rerio.html GloFish are simply Zebra Danios that have been genetically enhanced to have the day-glo colored gene added to their pigmentation so they "glow" under a blacklight. Here's their main commercial website for the main U.S. breeder of GloFish. The FAQ page will tell you more about their laboratory origins. http://www.GloFish.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carol Lynn Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Glofish Coolness. It's hard to find info on them for some reason...lol. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... <mailto:childofgod19832003%40yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 8:37:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Glofish Yes I have 6 of them. Amber *Carol Lynn* wrote: > > Does anyone else have glofish? > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/4/2008 8:08:24 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34019	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: update on ich treatments

So far I've noticed a couple of plants not doing so well, but I don't know if it's from the light penetration in the 125 gallon tank (it's so tall that I'm guessing my fluorescents don't penetrate as well as the CFL bulbs would if they weren't burned out) or if the plants are not doing well from the salt since I started the salt treatments shortly after putting the plants into the tank. Should I keep adding salt or should I leave it where it is? I no longer see any signs of ich on any of the fish in the tank. The AC 110 is a secondary filter for the 125 gallon tank, I haven't decided which canister filter I'm going to use with it (the magnum or the eheim), the magnum does more GPH than the eheim and the hood is already cut out for the magnum on the 55 gallon, but I'm sure it'll work just as well for the eheim filter too. Which combination would you guys suggest? I was going to put the fluidized bed filter back on the 55 gallon as well, and then use one of the canister filters with it. The magnum does 350 gph, the eheim does 277 gph. I'm going to pick up one of the 10 gallon kits when we get more in town, our walmart doesn't seem to get them that often. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yeah.. now you know why we recommend a 10G tank for a Q-tank or H-tank > (except for BIG fish)... it's a lot easier to treat 10G of water over 125G > of water but I know you didn't have much of a choice this time. ;-) > Definitely get a spare 10G or even a clear Sterilite plastic storage > box to > use in the future. At least the storage box can be used for clothes > storage > until needed but don't put anything in there that might cause > problems.. so > no cleaning supplies or other household chemicals. > > You know.. I forgot you had live plants in the tank. I hope they do OK > with > the salt. Some plants do OK, others do not. > > There's no need to do PWC's unless you have ammonia/nitrite issues or > other > water quality issues or if your fish start showing signs of distress from > the salt treatment, then a PWC to lower the salinity level might be in > order. > > Was the AC-110 for the big tank or for the 55G? It's a big filter system > for a 55G tank unless you were going with fish that like/need very fast > water movement. I'm guessing it's for your 125G as a secondary system. Of > course, you could use it and throttle it back so it's not putting out > 100%. > $50.00 is a good price. Hope you win it! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments > > On day 3 of 87ish heat (sometimes it goes up to 88). I'm currently up to > 25 Tablespoons of salt (even TBS not heaping) total. I'm working my way up > to 125 tablespoons (which is what Lenny suggested for my 125 gallon tank, > 375 teaspoons). I'm gonna be out of rock salt before winter even hits, > LOL. > No more casualties since sunday night when I lost the gourami and glofish > danio. All fish appear happy and normal (hungry). Apparently someone > in the > tank got so hungry that they ate my wisteria plants, LOL. > No wonder the LFS calls it "water lettuce" ;). I still haven't located the > missing long finned blue ram, and I have moved all the decorations to look > under them, perhaps someone picked him apart after death. The one that is > missing was showing ich very noticeably on saturday night, but I haven't > seen the fish since then, so I assume it died over the weekend when I > had my > other casualties. > Do I need to do a 25% PWC every day during this ich treatment? I did a PWC > last night, but skipped a day earlier this week. > I ordered an aquaclear 110 earlier this week, hoping it gets here in the > near future so I can get my 55 gallon tank up and going again ;) I can > always use it without gravel as a quarantine tank in the meantime. I > found a > seller on ebay that had them for a little over $50 dollars plus shipping, > which is definately a good deal, I spent $64 (and some change) on it > including shipping. I also need to get some more square pin CFL lights for > my hood, I have the shop light hooked up in there for now to give it > enough > light. My LFS doesn't have the right kind of bulbs and I'm tempted to > order > them on Marinedepot.com since they have them on sale for over 50% off, > but I > worry how they will arrive through the USPS *cringe*, last 2 fragile > shipments from DFS.com arrived broken through the USPS. > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 > Tested on: 12/4/2008 7:38:52 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: update on ich treatments

The 3 teaspoons per gallon is just a level that is known to be tolerated by most fish and works best for killing the Ich. 2 teaspoons can work also.. just not as good. If you do not see any more white spots, you might be able to get by with not increasing the salt and just keep the heat up and let the current salt level kill off any more of the theronts. The heat can be just as detrimental to plants as the salt. See this full article on Ich and the snip I pasted... http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17 . Theront Phase: When the tomont ruptures it bursts open to release hundreds of theronts into the water. This is the phase of the Ich life cycle when the parasite is vulnerable to medication. Theronts have a life span of approximately two days and will die if they have not successfully located a host fish. (END SNIP) As far as filters, I put my easier to maintain filters on the tanks that need more maintenance... so depending on which tank has the heavier bioload or dirtier fish, the 125G or the 55G, that would determine filter placement for me. Did you know you can order stuff off of Walmart.com and have it delivered free to the local store for pickup? I've used this service a couple of times. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments So far I've noticed a couple of plants not doing so well, but I don't know if it's from the light penetration in the 125 gallon tank (it's so tall that I'm guessing my fluorescents don't penetrate as well as the CFL bulbs would if they weren't burned out) or if the plants are not doing well from the salt since I started the salt treatments shortly after putting the plants into the tank. Should I keep adding salt or should I leave it where it is? I no longer see any signs of ich on any of the fish in the tank. The AC 110 is a secondary filter for the 125 gallon tank, I haven't decided which canister filter I'm going to use with it (the magnum or the eheim), the magnum does more GPH than the eheim and the hood is already cut out for the magnum on the 55 gallon, but I'm sure it'll work just as well for the eheim filter too. Which combination would you guys suggest? I was going to put the fluidized bed filter back on the 55 gallon as well, and then use one of the canister filters with it. The magnum does 350 gph, the eheim does 277 gph. I'm going to pick up one of the 10 gallon kits when we get more in town, our walmart doesn't seem to get them that often. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yeah.. now you know why we recommend a 10G tank for a Q-tank or H-tank > (except for BIG fish)... it's a lot easier to treat 10G of water over > 125G of water but I know you didn't have much of a choice this time. > ;-) Definitely get a spare 10G or even a clear Sterilite plastic > storage box to use in the future. At least the storage box can be used > for clothes storage until needed but don't put anything in there that > might cause problems.. so no cleaning supplies or other household > chemicals. > > You know.. I forgot you had live plants in the tank. I hope they do OK > with the salt. Some plants do OK, others do not. > > There's no need to do PWC's unless you have ammonia/nitrite issues or > other water quality issues or if your fish start showing signs of > distress from the salt treatment, then a PWC to lower the salinity > level might be in order. > > Was the AC-110 for the big tank or for the 55G? It's a big filter > system for a 55G tank unless you were going with fish that like/need > very fast water movement. I'm guessing it's for your 125G as a > secondary system. Of course, you could use it and throttle it back so > it's not putting out 100%. > $50.00 is a good price. Hope you win it! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments > > On day 3 of 87ish heat (sometimes it goes up to 88). I'm currently up > to > 25 Tablespoons of salt (even TBS not heaping) total. I'm working my > way up to 125 tablespoons (which is what Lenny suggested for my 125 > gallon tank, > 375 teaspoons). I'm gonna be out of rock salt before winter even hits, > LOL. > No more casualties since sunday night when I lost the gourami and > glofish danio. All fish appear happy and normal (hungry). Apparently > someone in the tank got so hungry that they ate my wisteria plants, > LOL. > No wonder the LFS calls it "water lettuce" ;). I still haven't located > the missing long finned blue ram, and I have moved all the decorations > to look under them, perhaps someone picked him apart after death. The > one that is missing was showing ich very noticeably on saturday night, > but I haven't seen the fish since then, so I assume it died over the > weekend when I had my other casualties. > Do I need to do a 25% PWC every day during this ich treatment? I did a > PWC last night, but skipped a day earlier this week. > I ordered an aquaclear 110 earlier this week, hoping it gets here in > the near future so I can get my 55 gallon tank up and going again ;) I > can always use it without gravel as a quarantine tank in the meantime. > I found a seller on ebay that had them for a little over $50 dollars > plus shipping, which is definately a good deal, I spent $64 (and some > change) on it including shipping. I also need to get some more square > pin CFL lights for my hood, I have the shop light hooked up in there > for now to give it enough light. My LFS doesn't have the right kind of > bulbs and I'm tempted to order them on Marinedepot.com since they have > them on sale for over 50% off, but I worry how they will arrive > through the USPS *cringe*, last 2 fragile shipments from DFS.com > arrived broken through the USPS. > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/4/2008 8:26:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34021	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: update on ich treatments

Thanks Lenny, And unfortunately we don't have site to store delivery at our walmart, not sure why but I know for sure that we don't (husband works there, LOL). I think I'm going to put the eheim on the 125 gallon since it's easier to clean and will probably have a heavier bioload. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > The 3 teaspoons per gallon is just a level that is known to be > tolerated by > most fish and works best for killing the Ich. 2 teaspoons can work also.. > just not as good. If you do not see any more white spots, you might be > able > to get by with not increasing the salt and just keep the heat up and > let the > current salt level kill off any more of the theronts. The heat can be just > as detrimental to plants as the salt. See this full article on Ich and the > snip I pasted... > http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17 > <http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17> > . Theront Phase: When the tomont ruptures it bursts open to release > hundreds > of theronts into the water. This is the phase of the Ich life cycle > when the > parasite is vulnerable to medication. Theronts have a life span of > approximately two days and will die if they have not successfully > located a > host fish. (END SNIP) > > As far as filters, I put my easier to maintain filters on the tanks that > need more maintenance... so depending on which tank has the heavier > bioload > or dirtier fish, the 125G or the 55G, that would determine filter > placement > for me. > > Did you know you can order stuff off of Walmart.com and have it delivered > free to the local store for pickup? I've used this service a couple of > times. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments > > So far I've noticed a couple of plants not doing so well, but I don't know > if it's from the light penetration in the 125 gallon tank (it's so > tall that > I'm guessing my fluorescents don't penetrate as well as the CFL bulbs > would > if they weren't burned out) or if the plants are not doing well from the > salt since I started the salt treatments shortly after putting the plants > into the tank. Should I keep adding salt or should I leave it where it > is? I > no longer see any signs of ich on any of the fish in the tank. > The AC 110 is a secondary filter for the 125 gallon tank, I haven't > decided > which canister filter I'm going to use with it (the magnum or the eheim), > the magnum does more GPH than the eheim and the hood is already cut > out for > the magnum on the 55 gallon, but I'm sure it'll work just as well for the > eheim filter too. Which combination would you guys suggest? I was going to > put the fluidized bed filter back on the 55 gallon as well, and then > use one > of the canister filters with it. > The magnum does 350 gph, the eheim does 277 gph. I'm going to pick up > one of > the 10 gallon kits when we get more in town, our walmart doesn't seem > to get > them that often. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yeah.. now you know why we recommend a 10G tank for a Q-tank or H-tank > > (except for BIG fish)... it's a lot easier to treat 10G of water over > > 125G of water but I know you didn't have much of a choice this time. > > ;-) Definitely get a spare 10G or even a clear Sterilite plastic > > storage box to use in the future. At least the storage box can be used > > for clothes storage until needed but don't put anything in there that > > might cause problems.. so no cleaning supplies or other household > > chemicals. > > > > You know.. I forgot you had live plants in the tank. I hope they do OK > > with the salt. Some plants do OK, others do not. > > > > There's no need to do PWC's unless you have ammonia/nitrite issues or > > other water quality issues or if your fish start showing signs of > > distress from the salt treatment, then a PWC to lower the salinity > > level might be in order. > > > > Was the AC-110 for the big tank or for the 55G? It's a big filter > > system for a 55G tank unless you were going with fish that like/need > > very fast water movement. I'm guessing it's for your 125G as a > > secondary system. Of course, you could use it and throttle it back so > > it's not putting out 100%. > > $50.00 is a good price. Hope you win it! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments > > > > On day 3 of 87ish heat (sometimes it goes up to 88). I'm currently up > > to > > 25 Tablespoons of salt (even TBS not heaping) total. I'm working my > > way up to 125 tablespoons (which is what Lenny suggested for my 125 > > gallon tank, > > 375 teaspoons). I'm gonna be out of rock salt before winter even hits, > > LOL. > > No more casualties since sunday night when I lost the gourami and > > glofish danio. All fish appear happy and normal (hungry). Apparently > > someone in the tank got so hungry that they ate my wisteria plants, > > LOL. > > No wonder the LFS calls it "water lettuce" ;). I still haven't located > > the missing long finned blue ram, and I have moved all the decorations > > to look under them, perhaps someone picked him apart after death. The > > one that is missing was showing ich very noticeably on saturday night, > > but I haven't seen the fish since then, so I assume it died over the > > weekend when I had my other casualties. > > Do I need to do a 25% PWC every day during this ich treatment? I did a > > PWC last night, but skipped a day earlier this week. > > I ordered an aquaclear 110 earlier this week, hoping it gets here in > > the near future so I can get my 55 gallon tank up and going again ;) I > > can always use it without gravel as a quarantine tank in the meantime. > > I found a seller on ebay that had them for a little over $50 dollars > > plus shipping, which is definately a good deal, I spent $64 (and some > > change) on it including shipping. I also need to get some more square > > pin CFL lights for my hood, I have the shop light hooked up in there > > for now to give it enough light. My LFS doesn't have the right kind of > > bulbs and I'm tempted to order them on Marinedepot.com since they have > > them on sale for over 50% off, but I worry how they will arrive > > through the USPS *cringe*, last 2 fragile shipments from DFS.com > > arrived broken through the USPS. > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 > Tested on: 12/4/2008 8:26:43 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34022	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the messages especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 weeks ago. I have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been fine until 2 days ago when one of the guppies started shimming and flashing occasionally. I also saw one other guppy flash but only once. I realize I am going thru the ammonia cycle but don't know if the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 days) is sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change but not sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other guppies seem OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my question is do I have parasites or could the problem be caused my the chemical levels???? Definitely need some advice. thanks Carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments The 3 teaspoons per gallon is just a level that is known to be tolerated by most fish and works best for killing the Ich. 2 teaspoons can work also.. just not as good. If you do not see any more white spots, you might be able to get by with not increasing the salt and just keep the heat up and let the current salt level kill off any more of the theronts. The heat can be just as detrimental to plants as the salt. See this full article on Ich and the snip I pasted... http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17 . Theront Phase: When the tomont ruptures it bursts open to release hundreds of theronts into the water. This is the phase of the Ich life cycle when the parasite is vulnerable to medication. Theronts have a life span of approximately two days and will die if they have not successfully located a host fish. (END SNIP) As far as filters, I put my easier to maintain filters on the tanks that need more maintenance... so depending on which tank has the heavier bioload or dirtier fish, the 125G or the 55G, that would determine filter placement for me. Did you know you can order stuff off of Walmart.com and have it delivered free to the local store for pickup? I've used this service a couple of times. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments So far I've noticed a couple of plants not doing so well, but I don't know if it's from the light penetration in the 125 gallon tank (it's so tall that I'm guessing my fluorescents don't penetrate as well as the CFL bulbs would if they weren't burned out) or if the plants are not doing well from the salt since I started the salt treatments shortly after putting the plants into the tank. Should I keep adding salt or should I leave it where it is? I no longer see any signs of ich on any of the fish in the tank. The AC 110 is a secondary filter for the 125 gallon tank, I haven't decided which canister filter I'm going to use with it (the magnum or the eheim), the magnum does more GPH than the eheim and the hood is already cut out for the magnum on the 55 gallon, but I'm sure it'll work just as well for the eheim filter too. Which combination would you guys suggest? I was going to put the fluidized bed filter back on the 55 gallon as well, and then use one of the canister filters with it. The magnum does 350 gph, the eheim does 277 gph. I'm going to pick up one of the 10 gallon kits when we get more in town, our walmart doesn't seem to get them that often. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yeah.. now you know why we recommend a 10G tank for a Q-tank or H-tank > (except for BIG fish)... it's a lot easier to treat 10G of water over > 125G of water but I know you didn't have much of a choice this time. > ;-) Definitely get a spare 10G or even a clear Sterilite plastic > storage box to use in the future. At least the storage box can be used > for clothes storage until needed but don't put anything in there that > might cause problems.. so no cleaning supplies or other household > chemicals. > > You know.. I forgot you had live plants in the tank. I hope they do OK > with the salt. Some plants do OK, others do not. > > There's no need to do PWC's unless you have ammonia/nitrite issues or > other water quality issues or if your fish start showing signs of > distress from the salt treatment, then a PWC to lower the salinity > level might be in order. > > Was the AC-110 for the big tank or for the 55G? It's a big filter > system for a 55G tank unless you were going with fish that like/need > very fast water movement. I'm guessing it's for your 125G as a > secondary system. Of course, you could use it and throttle it back so > it's not putting out 100%. > $50.00 is a good price. Hope you win it! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments > > On day 3 of 87ish heat (sometimes it goes up to 88). I'm currently up > to > 25 Tablespoons of salt (even TBS not heaping) total. I'm working my > way up to 125 tablespoons (which is what Lenny suggested for my 125 > gallon tank, > 375 teaspoons). I'm gonna be out of rock salt before winter even hits, > LOL. > No more casualties since sunday night when I lost the gourami and > glofish danio. All fish appear happy and normal (hungry). Apparently > someone in the tank got so hungry that they ate my wisteria plants, > LOL. > No wonder the LFS calls it "water lettuce" ;). I still haven't located > the missing long finned blue ram, and I have moved all the decorations > to look under them, perhaps someone picked him apart after death. The > one that is missing was showing ich very noticeably on saturday night, > but I haven't seen the fish since then, so I assume it died over the > weekend when I had my other casualties. > Do I need to do a 25% PWC every day during this ich treatment? I did a > PWC last night, but skipped a day earlier this week. > I ordered an aquaclear 110 earlier this week, hoping it gets here in > the near future so I can get my 55 gallon tank up and going again ;) I > can always use it without gravel as a quarantine tank in the meantime. > I found a seller on ebay that had them for a little over $50 dollars > plus shipping, which is definately a good deal, I spent $64 (and some > change) on it including shipping. I also need to get some more square > pin CFL lights for my hood, I have the shop light hooked up in there > for now to give it enough light. My LFS doesn't have the right kind of > bulbs and I'm tempted to order them on Marinedepot.com since they have > them on sale for over 50% off, but I worry how they will arrive > through the USPS *cringe*, last 2 fragile shipments from DFS.com > arrived broken through the USPS. > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/4/2008 8:26:43 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34023	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

I would do a PWC for sure to get the ammonia and nitrite back down close to 0. You don't give precise numbers for anyone that knows more than I do to help you out ;). When my tank was first cycling I had to do a PWC nearly every day to keep the ammonia down, and in a 10 gallon tank it's going to be harder to keep the ammonia/nitrites down as they will build up faster. I would recommend a 25% PWC daily myself, it's better to keep the ammonia and nitrites as close to 0 as you can without drastically changing the tank too fast. You can do 25% PWC's hourly if ammonia and nitrite is building up fast. Someone who knows more than I do can help with the specifics on how much ammonia/nitrite is toxic but they will need your exact PH to help you. Amber onelvlady wrote: > > Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the messages > especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 weeks ago. I > have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been fine until 2 days > ago when one of the guppies started shimming and flashing occasionally. I > also saw one other guppy flash but only once. I realize I am going > thru the > ammonia cycle but don't know if the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 > days) is > sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. > > My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, > alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change but > not sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other guppies > seem OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my question is do I > have > parasites or could the problem be caused my the chemical levels???? > Definitely need some advice. > > thanks > Carole > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:26 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments > > The 3 teaspoons per gallon is just a level that is known to be > tolerated by > most fish and works best for killing the Ich. 2 teaspoons can work also.. > just not as good. If you do not see any more white spots, you might be > able > to get by with not increasing the salt and just keep the heat up and > let the > current salt level kill off any more of the theronts. The heat can be just > as detrimental to plants as the salt. See this full article on Ich and the > snip I pasted... > http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17 > <http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17> > . Theront Phase: When the tomont ruptures it bursts open to release > hundreds > of theronts into the water. This is the phase of the Ich life cycle > when the > parasite is vulnerable to medication. Theronts have a life span of > approximately two days and will die if they have not successfully > located a > host fish. (END SNIP) > > As far as filters, I put my easier to maintain filters on the tanks that > need more maintenance... so depending on which tank has the heavier > bioload > or dirtier fish, the 125G or the 55G, that would determine filter > placement > for me. > > Did you know you can order stuff off of Walmart.com and have it delivered > free to the local store for pickup? I've used this service a couple of > times. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments > > So far I've noticed a couple of plants not doing so well, but I don't know > if it's from the light penetration in the 125 gallon tank (it's so > tall that > I'm guessing my fluorescents don't penetrate as well as the CFL bulbs > would > if they weren't burned out) or if the plants are not doing well from the > salt since I started the salt treatments shortly after putting the plants > into the tank. Should I keep adding salt or should I leave it where it > is? I > no longer see any signs of ich on any of the fish in the tank. > The AC 110 is a secondary filter for the 125 gallon tank, I haven't > decided > which canister filter I'm going to use with it (the magnum or the eheim), > the magnum does more GPH than the eheim and the hood is already cut > out for > the magnum on the 55 gallon, but I'm sure it'll work just as well for the > eheim filter too. Which combination would you guys suggest? I was going to > put the fluidized bed filter back on the 55 gallon as well, and then > use one > of the canister filters with it. > The magnum does 350 gph, the eheim does 277 gph. I'm going to pick up > one of > the 10 gallon kits when we get more in town, our walmart doesn't seem > to get > them that often. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yeah.. now you know why we recommend a 10G tank for a Q-tank or H-tank > > (except for BIG fish)... it's a lot easier to treat 10G of water over > > 125G of water but I know you didn't have much of a choice this time. > > ;-) Definitely get a spare 10G or even a clear Sterilite plastic > > storage box to use in the future. At least the storage box can be used > > for clothes storage until needed but don't put anything in there that > > might cause problems.. so no cleaning supplies or other household > > chemicals. > > > > You know.. I forgot you had live plants in the tank. I hope they do OK > > with the salt. Some plants do OK, others do not. > > > > There's no need to do PWC's unless you have ammonia/nitrite issues or > > other water quality issues or if your fish start showing signs of > > distress from the salt treatment, then a PWC to lower the salinity > > level might be in order. > > > > Was the AC-110 for the big tank or for the 55G? It's a big filter > > system for a 55G tank unless you were going with fish that like/need > > very fast water movement. I'm guessing it's for your 125G as a > > secondary system. Of course, you could use it and throttle it back so > > it's not putting out 100%. > > $50.00 is a good price. Hope you win it! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments > > > > On day 3 of 87ish heat (sometimes it goes up to 88). I'm currently up > > to > > 25 Tablespoons of salt (even TBS not heaping) total. I'm working my > > way up to 125 tablespoons (which is what Lenny suggested for my 125 > > gallon tank, > > 375 teaspoons). I'm gonna be out of rock salt before winter even hits, > > LOL. > > No more casualties since sunday night when I lost the gourami and > > glofish danio. All fish appear happy and normal (hungry). Apparently > > someone in the tank got so hungry that they ate my wisteria plants, > > LOL. > > No wonder the LFS calls it "water lettuce" ;). I still haven't located > > the missing long finned blue ram, and I have moved all the decorations > > to look under them, perhaps someone picked him apart after death. The > > one that is missing was showing ich very noticeably on saturday night, > > but I haven't seen the fish since then, so I assume it died over the > > weekend when I had my other casualties. > > Do I need to do a 25% PWC every day during this ich treatment? I did a > > PWC last night, but skipped a day earlier this week. > > I ordered an aquaclear 110 earlier this week, hoping it gets here in > > the near future so I can get my 55 gallon tank up and going again ;) I > > can always use it without gravel as a quarantine tank in the meantime. > > I found a seller on ebay that had them for a little over $50 dollars > > plus shipping, which is definately a good deal, I spent $64 (and some > > change) on it including shipping. I also need to get some more square > > pin CFL lights for my hood, I have the shop light hooked up in there > > for now to give it enough light. My LFS doesn't have the right kind of > > bulbs and I'm tempted to order them on Marinedepot.com since they have > > them on sale for over 50% off, but I worry how they will arrive > > through the USPS *cringe*, last 2 fragile shipments from DFS.com > > arrived broken through the USPS. > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 > Tested on: 12/4/2008 8:26:43 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34024	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081203-0, 12/03/2008 Tested on: 12/3/2008 8:27:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

Hi Carole, What kind of test kit do you have? You have an actual number for ammonia but then only "ok" and "caution" for nitrate and nitrite. Usually, an affordable master test kit will give you numbers and some dip strips will also.. but then other dip strips will give you the "OK" type answers. Since your hardness is showing as high, DO NOT let the ammonia get over the 0.5ppm level. You will have to do frequent 25% PWC's and testing to keep this in check. You need some level of ammonia to grow your nitrifying bacteria but with a high pH, ammonia becomes far more toxic. If you could get hold of SeaChem Prime tap water treatment, it will also help to detoxify the ammonia. Be careful of some other brands as they do not work the same or as well in many cases. Kordon's NovaAqua Plus is supposed to be good also but I haven't checked it out so I can't recommend it personally. Also add a pinch of salt (regular table salt is fine) to you tank (dose at a pinch per 10G) as that will help prevent nitrite poisoning. Yes, the cycling with fish can cause your fish to act funny... usually gasping or lethargic, hiding, fins clamped, etc.. Keep an eye out for more signs of parasites but don't start treating them for parasites unless you are sure. If you do see further signs, you might be able to treat with just salt and higher temps depending on what they might be. My bigger concern is what kind of catfish? There are literally thousands of species that range from 1" long to 6' (feet) long and everywhere in between. You need to identify what you have. Check with the store to see what they sold you and let us know. There's a 99% chance that what they sold you will not work in a 10G tank. I think someone else already told you that you will likely be doing daily or twice daily 25% PWC's for the next several weeks. It's really a shame that so many pet stores or fish stores still do this to people that they supposedly want as a customer. Fishless Cycling would have been so much easier on you and especially for the fish. If you want to learn more about being a better fish keeper, go to my blog, then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top of that page, there are links to two different FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics. Also, check out my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not make those mistakes... especially not while trying to cycle with fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the messages especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 weeks ago. I have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been fine until 2 days ago when one of the guppies started shimming and flashing occasionally. I also saw one other guppy flash but only once. I realize I am going thru the ammonia cycle but don't know if the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 days) is sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change but not sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other guppies seem OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my question is do I have parasites or could the problem be caused my the chemical levels???? Definitely need some advice. thanks Carole _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 12:51:16 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

The dark spots are good. Those are melanophore migration and those will show up in goldfish (and less likely in other fish) where there is healing taking place. I guess it would be comparable to a scab in us humans. Sometimes they go away but sometimes the pigmentation stays... it depends on how bad the injury was... same with a scar on us humans. http://thegab.org/Articles/DiagnosisChart.html#BlackSpot Keep a close eye on your ammonia levels. Do not let them get over 1.0. Your pH level is good for goldfish normally but not when cycling with goldfish. It just means you have to keep a close eye on tests and do more frequent 25% PWC's to keep things in the non-toxic levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 1:00:34 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34027	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/4/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34028	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 2:15:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34029	From: Farscape	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: dither fish -- fate of any offspring? (2) Remove the cichlids' h

When I lived in Vegas about 6 years ago, I used to frequent a place on Tropicana, off Pecos, if I remember right... It's in the same center as a Wal-Mart & many other stores, only it's near the West side in a cluster of stores near the street. Reportedly, it was once called "Tanks Alot" before that local chain went under, and the management of that location bought out before the end of T.A. OK, found it on Superpages: TROP Aquarium (702) 458-2981 (702) 458-8984 (Fax) 3125 E Tropicana Avenue # D, Las Vegas, NV 89121 I looked at the map there, and that's the place, for sure. They have a really nice salt water area (and tanks & stands) to the left as you enter, and the freshwater stuff is straight in and over to the right. If they don't have what you want, just ask and they can order it. William J. Scott wrote, On 11/9/2008 10:37 PM: > I go to Vegas quite frequently to buy supplies for me ferrets. > > Anyways, do you know of any good LFS in Vegas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34030	From: Farscape	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?

Smaller Danios can work, too, providing they are healthy and have some place to occasionally hide out. Ditto too on similar fast fish, like Otos & even blue/gold (AKA 3-spot) Gourami. CAE's also can work, but you might want to get rid of them after the Cichlids learn they cannot catch them, at least once they are about 3.5" or longer, as CAE's will attack any slower fish for their body slime once they're at that age. Smaller CAE's are great, as nearly nothing can catch them, and they even will consume black algae off your fake plants (should any take hold). -Forget it once the CAE matures fully, as they switch from being herbivorous to omnivores, and will go after fish slime so aggressively that it kills the other fish! At about 4.5" long, they're too much for a grown Oscar to put up with, and once they give-up on chasing them, the Oscar is a target for slime sucking, especially at night! Shirley Reichard wrote, On 11/4/2008 3:42 PM: > In another thread, I asked about ways to get my two male convict > cichlids to come out of hiding. It was suggested that I add dither > fish; tiger barb and giant danio were recommended. Okay, so I went to [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34031	From: Farscape	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Anyone using X-10 controllers to control light pumps, feeders?

You can get the CM-11 or similar, which connects to a PC via a 9-pin serial cable, or the newer version, which uses USB. The old ActiveHouse (CM-11) controller can be programmed with timers & macros, after which you don't need a PC connection or even the PC to be on... However, the ones I've had either gained or lost time as much as 5-10 mins. per month, so resetting the clock via PC was something I regularly did to keep it somewhat timely. One of the things I had on a macro was so that I could push a button on a wired controller, and the macro would turn on or off multiple devices for a period of time... IE: A feeding macro for my 20 gal. turned off the pump for 5 mins. when I was about to feed them, otherwise it tended to scatter the flakes too much in the filer's current. I used another for lights at feeding time, turning on the lights in my small tank for 10 mins. and the big one for 20 - that way everything had time to feed with a little extra light to find it with. Visit these sites to find more X-10 compatible stuff: http://x10.com http://smarthome.com Jim D. AOL IM id is goodoldjim wrote, On 10/24/2008 8:11 PM: > Recently a local TFH gave me a bunch of tanks and accessories > including X-10 controllers. Has anyone used them for controlling > lights, pumps, feeders, etc? > > Also, where do we find free software controlling X-10 devices? Im > assuming that there is a cheap X-10 controller avail that connects to > the computer thru Ethernet, USB, of RS-232. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34032	From: Scott Jackson	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Australian blue yabbies/crawfish

I have kept fish with Austrailian red claws (C. Quad).  The fish seem to do OK but you will probably lose some over time, so I would't get anything too expensive.  Currently I have some zebra danios in the tank and they seem to always be just out of reach of the crays.  I would stick to small fast moving fish that like to swim at the top and in schools, such as danios, neon tetras, etc. Scott ________________________________ From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:11:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Australian blue yabbies/crawfish I meant to ask, what would be a compatible species with an Australian blue yabby? I was thinking a couple of dwarf gouramis, some swordtails, platies and a red tail shark. Anything else? Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34033	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel

I find that impossible to avoid. Just put them back, LOL! Besides, you have to clean underneath them - it's in inaccessible conditions that the most dangerous anaerobic bacteria build up. Morevove, maybe because I put plastic plants along the entire back of my tank, debris has a real tendency to accumulate underneath tehm. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] logistics of cleaning gravel Here's a newbie question: Is it expected for all the tank decorations and (plastic) plantings to become dislodged when vacuuming gravel? If not, how do you clean thoroughly without moving everything around? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34034	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

Hi Lenny and thank you too for your advice. I knew from reading that the test trips were not adequate. I will get better testing equipment today and see if I can find the items you recommended. I am going to go and do the PWC now and then hit the store. The "boys" are fine this AM save for the one. He is swimming around but does not look healthy and still not eating. As for the catfish, I do not know what type he is. I'll ask when I go to the store. I bought the smallest one I could find at the store. He seems to be OK. To me, he is just the "typical" looking catfish. LOL. After I make the PWC and get better testing supplies, I'll check back in. I think I am going to need some advice along this journey. I am a senior and had many tanks of fish when younger but sure don't remember worrying about cycling back then. One thing you mentioned I still don't understand and that is fishless cycling. How does a tank cycle w/o fish. I thought you needed fish to start the ammonia cycle. Just another newbie question. Carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help Hi Carole, What kind of test kit do you have? You have an actual number for ammonia but then only "ok" and "caution" for nitrate and nitrite. Usually, an affordable master test kit will give you numbers and some dip strips will also.. but then other dip strips will give you the "OK" type answers. Since your hardness is showing as high, DO NOT let the ammonia get over the 0.5ppm level. You will have to do frequent 25% PWC's and testing to keep this in check. You need some level of ammonia to grow your nitrifying bacteria but with a high pH, ammonia becomes far more toxic. If you could get hold of SeaChem Prime tap water treatment, it will also help to detoxify the ammonia. Be careful of some other brands as they do not work the same or as well in many cases. Kordon's NovaAqua Plus is supposed to be good also but I haven't checked it out so I can't recommend it personally. Also add a pinch of salt (regular table salt is fine) to you tank (dose at a pinch per 10G) as that will help prevent nitrite poisoning. Yes, the cycling with fish can cause your fish to act funny... usually gasping or lethargic, hiding, fins clamped, etc.. Keep an eye out for more signs of parasites but don't start treating them for parasites unless you are sure. If you do see further signs, you might be able to treat with just salt and higher temps depending on what they might be. My bigger concern is what kind of catfish? There are literally thousands of species that range from 1" long to 6' (feet) long and everywhere in between. You need to identify what you have. Check with the store to see what they sold you and let us know. There's a 99% chance that what they sold you will not work in a 10G tank. I think someone else already told you that you will likely be doing daily or twice daily 25% PWC's for the next several weeks. It's really a shame that so many pet stores or fish stores still do this to people that they supposedly want as a customer. Fishless Cycling would have been so much easier on you and especially for the fish. If you want to learn more about being a better fish keeper, go to my blog, then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top of that page, there are links to two different FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics. Also, check out my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not make those mistakes... especially not while trying to cycle with fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the messages especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 weeks ago. I have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been fine until 2 days ago when one of the guppies started shimming and flashing occasionally. I also saw one other guppy flash but only once. I realize I am going thru the ammonia cycle but don't know if the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 days) is sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change but not sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other guppies seem OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my question is do I have parasites or could the problem be caused my the chemical levels???? Definitely need some advice. thanks Carole _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 12:51:16 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34035	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel

Good idea! I'll look into this! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Charles" <alone29784@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] logistics of cleaning gravel I can give you my response that has worked. I sewing suction cups to a lot of mine using fishing line. They stick to the bottom and I sewed them tight. After cleaning I just cover them up as necessary, but they have stayed in place. Suction cups can be found from dollar stores to ebay. Your choice and hope this helps . Philip --- On Thu, 12/4/08, amsterbaum <amsterbaum@...> wrote: From: amsterbaum <amsterbaum@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] logistics of cleaning gravel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 7:27 PM Here's a newbie question: Is it expected for all the tank decorations and (plastic) plantings to become dislodged when vacuuming gravel? If not, how do you clean thoroughly without moving everything around? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34036	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel

Taht's easier on a big tank with relatively few decorations, Lenny. In my 20 gallon it's impossible; dislodge one plant and you've dislodged the while row of them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:44 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] logistics of cleaning gravel I only move stuff around about once a month or so but I do vacuum around each decoration and angle the tube so it's kind of sucking from under the decoration also. You'll learn which decorations need to be moved/cleaned under more often after you clean under them the first time and you see which ones had the most detritus under them. When it's time, the best thing is to have the Python or siphon going with one hand and then tilt the item and be siphoning at the same time to get as much of any stirred up detritus right away and then lift it up, get the rest and put it right back in place right afterwards. If you don't like getting your arms wet, they sell the Aquatic Gardener kit (Tom's Aquarium Products is the one I have) that comes in a couple of lengths and has either a claw or a scissors attachment. The scissors for pruning plants and the claw for grabbing stuff and moving it without getting wet. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] logistics of cleaning gravel Here's a newbie question: Is it expected for all the tank decorations and (plastic) plantings to become dislodged when vacuuming gravel? If not, how do you clean thoroughly without moving everything around? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/4/2008 7:44:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34037	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: logistics of cleaning gravel

I've not managed that trick, Donna. I have barely enough gravel to bury the bottoms of the plastic plants to begin with. That's nearly an inch deep. doesn't matter how you bury the bottoms, clean the gravel and up it comes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] logistics of cleaning gravel The rocks and décor should be added to the tank before the gravel so you don't have to vacuum under them. It's safer for the fish.they can't dig underneath and topple anything. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] logistics of cleaning gravel Here's a newbie question: Is it expected for all the tank decorations and (plastic) plantings to become dislodged when vacuuming gravel? If not, how do you clean thoroughly without moving everything around? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34038	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

Thank you for your advice Amber. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help >I would do a PWC for sure to get the ammonia and nitrite back down close > to 0. You don't give precise numbers for anyone that knows more than I > do to help you out ;). When my tank was first cycling I had to do a PWC > nearly every day to keep the ammonia down, and in a 10 gallon tank it's > going to be harder to keep the ammonia/nitrites down as they will build > up faster. I would recommend a 25% PWC daily myself, it's better to keep > the ammonia and nitrites as close to 0 as you can without drastically > changing the tank too fast. You can do 25% PWC's hourly if ammonia and > nitrite is building up fast. > Someone who knows more than I do can help with the specifics on how much > ammonia/nitrite is toxic but they will need your exact PH to help you. > > Amber > > onelvlady wrote: >> >> Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the messages >> especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 weeks ago. I >> have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been fine until 2 days >> ago when one of the guppies started shimming and flashing occasionally. I >> also saw one other guppy flash but only once. I realize I am going >> thru the >> ammonia cycle but don't know if the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 >> days) is >> sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. >> >> My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, >> alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change but >> not sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other guppies >> seem OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my question is do I >> have >> parasites or could the problem be caused my the chemical levels???? >> Definitely need some advice. >> >> thanks >> Carole >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:26 PM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments >> >> The 3 teaspoons per gallon is just a level that is known to be >> tolerated by >> most fish and works best for killing the Ich. 2 teaspoons can work also.. >> just not as good. If you do not see any more white spots, you might be >> able >> to get by with not increasing the salt and just keep the heat up and >> let the >> current salt level kill off any more of the theronts. The heat can be >> just >> as detrimental to plants as the salt. See this full article on Ich and >> the >> snip I pasted... >> http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17 >> <http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17> >> . Theront Phase: When the tomont ruptures it bursts open to release >> hundreds >> of theronts into the water. This is the phase of the Ich life cycle >> when the >> parasite is vulnerable to medication. Theronts have a life span of >> approximately two days and will die if they have not successfully >> located a >> host fish. (END SNIP) >> >> As far as filters, I put my easier to maintain filters on the tanks that >> need more maintenance... so depending on which tank has the heavier >> bioload >> or dirtier fish, the 125G or the 55G, that would determine filter >> placement >> for me. >> >> Did you know you can order stuff off of Walmart.com and have it delivered >> free to the local store for pickup? I've used this service a couple of >> times. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under >> Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:48 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments >> >> So far I've noticed a couple of plants not doing so well, but I don't >> know >> if it's from the light penetration in the 125 gallon tank (it's so >> tall that >> I'm guessing my fluorescents don't penetrate as well as the CFL bulbs >> would >> if they weren't burned out) or if the plants are not doing well from the >> salt since I started the salt treatments shortly after putting the plants >> into the tank. Should I keep adding salt or should I leave it where it >> is? I >> no longer see any signs of ich on any of the fish in the tank. >> The AC 110 is a secondary filter for the 125 gallon tank, I haven't >> decided >> which canister filter I'm going to use with it (the magnum or the eheim), >> the magnum does more GPH than the eheim and the hood is already cut >> out for >> the magnum on the 55 gallon, but I'm sure it'll work just as well for the >> eheim filter too. Which combination would you guys suggest? I was going >> to >> put the fluidized bed filter back on the 55 gallon as well, and then >> use one >> of the canister filters with it. >> The magnum does 350 gph, the eheim does 277 gph. I'm going to pick up >> one of >> the 10 gallon kits when we get more in town, our walmart doesn't seem >> to get >> them that often. >> >> Amber >> >> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> > >> > Yeah.. now you know why we recommend a 10G tank for a Q-tank or H-tank >> > (except for BIG fish)... it's a lot easier to treat 10G of water over >> > 125G of water but I know you didn't have much of a choice this time. >> > ;-) Definitely get a spare 10G or even a clear Sterilite plastic >> > storage box to use in the future. At least the storage box can be used >> > for clothes storage until needed but don't put anything in there that >> > might cause problems.. so no cleaning supplies or other household >> > chemicals. >> > >> > You know.. I forgot you had live plants in the tank. I hope they do OK >> > with the salt. Some plants do OK, others do not. >> > >> > There's no need to do PWC's unless you have ammonia/nitrite issues or >> > other water quality issues or if your fish start showing signs of >> > distress from the salt treatment, then a PWC to lower the salinity >> > level might be in order. >> > >> > Was the AC-110 for the big tank or for the 55G? It's a big filter >> > system for a 55G tank unless you were going with fish that like/need >> > very fast water movement. I'm guessing it's for your 125G as a >> > secondary system. Of course, you could use it and throttle it back so >> > it's not putting out 100%. >> > $50.00 is a good price. Hope you win it! >> > >> > Lenny Vasbinder >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> (Links to articles referenced above >> > listed on the right side under Archives >> > - Year, Month and under Labels) >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:27 PM >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] update on ich treatments >> > >> > On day 3 of 87ish heat (sometimes it goes up to 88). I'm currently up >> > to >> > 25 Tablespoons of salt (even TBS not heaping) total. I'm working my >> > way up to 125 tablespoons (which is what Lenny suggested for my 125 >> > gallon tank, >> > 375 teaspoons). I'm gonna be out of rock salt before winter even hits, >> > LOL. >> > No more casualties since sunday night when I lost the gourami and >> > glofish danio. All fish appear happy and normal (hungry). Apparently >> > someone in the tank got so hungry that they ate my wisteria plants, >> > LOL. >> > No wonder the LFS calls it "water lettuce" ;). I still haven't located >> > the missing long finned blue ram, and I have moved all the decorations >> > to look under them, perhaps someone picked him apart after death. The >> > one that is missing was showing ich very noticeably on saturday night, >> > but I haven't seen the fish since then, so I assume it died over the >> > weekend when I had my other casualties. >> > Do I need to do a 25% PWC every day during this ich treatment? I did a >> > PWC last night, but skipped a day earlier this week. >> > I ordered an aquaclear 110 earlier this week, hoping it gets here in >> > the near future so I can get my 55 gallon tank up and going again ;) I >> > can always use it without gravel as a quarantine tank in the meantime. >> > I found a seller on ebay that had them for a little over $50 dollars >> > plus shipping, which is definately a good deal, I spent $64 (and some >> > change) on it including shipping. I also need to get some more square >> > pin CFL lights for my hood, I have the shop light hooked up in there >> > for now to give it enough light. My LFS doesn't have the right kind of >> > bulbs and I'm tempted to order them on Marinedepot.com since they have >> > them on sale for over 50% off, but I worry how they will arrive >> > through the USPS *cringe*, last 2 fragile shipments from DFS.com >> > arrived broken through the USPS. >> > >> > Amber >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : >> Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 >> Tested on: 12/4/2008 8:26:43 PM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34039	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

Fishless Cycling was developed in the past 15 years and you use plain ammonia (99 cents a quart at Ace Hardware) as the ammonia source instead of putting fish through the arduous process. There are also products like Dr. Tim's One And Only that was developed in the past 10 years that will instantly cycle a tank. There are other products that claim to have live bacteria but there are only one or two that actually work as advertised.. Dr. Tim's and Bio-Spira (now owned by Tetra and sold under a different name). If neither of those are available, there's always the "pee in the tank" method... which is free. ;-) On my blog's "A to Z" page, I have links to several articles on fishless cycling using the plain ammonia. Definitely find out what kind of catfish. A plain looking catfish (meaning not a suckermouth) is far more likely to get really BIG. I've seen stores selling Channel Catfish and the Louisiana record for them is over 100 pounds. They have catfish that come out of Asia that grow to 6' and hundreds of pounds. A common Pleco (armored suckermouth catfish) is actually one of several species but they all grow to 18"+. While at my blog, check out the article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" where there is a long list of suitable fish for a 10G tank, including which catfish are suitable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 10:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help Hi Lenny and thank you too for your advice. I knew from reading that the test trips were not adequate. I will get better testing equipment today and see if I can find the items you recommended. I am going to go and do the PWC now and then hit the store. The "boys" are fine this AM save for the one. He is swimming around but does not look healthy and still not eating. As for the catfish, I do not know what type he is. I'll ask when I go to the store. I bought the smallest one I could find at the store. He seems to be OK. To me, he is just the "typical" looking catfish. LOL. After I make the PWC and get better testing supplies, I'll check back in. I think I am going to need some advice along this journey. I am a senior and had many tanks of fish when younger but sure don't remember worrying about cycling back then. One thing you mentioned I still don't understand and that is fishless cycling. How does a tank cycle w/o fish. I thought you needed fish to start the ammonia cycle. Just another newbie question. Carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help Hi Carole, What kind of test kit do you have? You have an actual number for ammonia but then only "ok" and "caution" for nitrate and nitrite. Usually, an affordable master test kit will give you numbers and some dip strips will also.. but then other dip strips will give you the "OK" type answers. Since your hardness is showing as high, DO NOT let the ammonia get over the 0.5ppm level. You will have to do frequent 25% PWC's and testing to keep this in check. You need some level of ammonia to grow your nitrifying bacteria but with a high pH, ammonia becomes far more toxic. If you could get hold of SeaChem Prime tap water treatment, it will also help to detoxify the ammonia. Be careful of some other brands as they do not work the same or as well in many cases. Kordon's NovaAqua Plus is supposed to be good also but I haven't checked it out so I can't recommend it personally. Also add a pinch of salt (regular table salt is fine) to you tank (dose at a pinch per 10G) as that will help prevent nitrite poisoning. Yes, the cycling with fish can cause your fish to act funny... usually gasping or lethargic, hiding, fins clamped, etc.. Keep an eye out for more signs of parasites but don't start treating them for parasites unless you are sure. If you do see further signs, you might be able to treat with just salt and higher temps depending on what they might be. My bigger concern is what kind of catfish? There are literally thousands of species that range from 1" long to 6' (feet) long and everywhere in between. You need to identify what you have. Check with the store to see what they sold you and let us know. There's a 99% chance that what they sold you will not work in a 10G tank. I think someone else already told you that you will likely be doing daily or twice daily 25% PWC's for the next several weeks. It's really a shame that so many pet stores or fish stores still do this to people that they supposedly want as a customer. Fishless Cycling would have been so much easier on you and especially for the fish. If you want to learn more about being a better fish keeper, go to my blog, then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top of that page, there are links to two different FREE online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics. Also, check out my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not make those mistakes... especially not while trying to cycle with fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the messages especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 weeks ago. I have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been fine until 2 days ago when one of the guppies started shimming and flashing occasionally. I also saw one other guppy flash but only once. I realize I am going thru the ammonia cycle but don't know if the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 days) is sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change but not sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other guppies seem OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my question is do I have parasites or could the problem be caused my the chemical levels???? Definitely need some advice. thanks Carole _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 12:42:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34040	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Best conditions for growing diatoms

Question. Someone on the diatom list wants to make a pure culture of tropical navicula (one of the more common sorts of fresh water diatoms). I related how I'm getting fairly pure cultures of this and that sort of diatoms in my tank. Someone replied, I already moved my aquarium next to the window! I pointed out that that will only work in certain conditions. I related that I keep my biologically overloaded tank very clean and this allows colonies of single sorts of diatoms to form. Two questions. First, do diatoms form colonies in aquariums with green plants (other than algae)? Second, are diatoms found in appreciable quantities ni fully established tanks with green algae? I know that once there's green algae teh brown algae don't bloom. If the student on the tropical island in teh Pacific wants to use the aquarium method to start his culture of navicula, what would be his best strategy? I told them how I did it, but it took eight months. LOL. And he might not want to spend several hundred dollars setting up an aquarium. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34041	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Glofish

Tetra. I think also barbs and that sort. If you have enough of them otehr fish. Yesterday I asked at Petsmart about putting in guppies with them, and was told the danios would attack the guppies' fins. Also, guppies are upper level fish, just like danios, and I like more balance. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Lynn" <childofgod19832003@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Glofish Yeah....what kind of fish can I put in with them? Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 8:46:13 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Glofish A few members do have the GloFish Zebra Danios. We've discussed them a lot recently if you do a search in the Messages page on the group's website, you'll see the discussions. Anything in particular you wanted to know? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glofish Does anyone else have glofish? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/4/2008 7:46:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34042	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

Is your catfish a "blue/grey" color with the typical catfish whiskers? If so you may have one of the types that get really big (eventually, like a foot long or so), I had one that a friend gave me in a 10 gallon tank (yes I know way too small for him), he eventually ate everything in the tank including the pleco. I took the catfish to the LFS and they put him in a big tank in their display, I'm sure he's much happier out there. I'd be careful of your catfish, a lot of them get pretty big and once they get bigger than their tank mates the little fish can become food (basically if it fits in their mouth they will eat it, LOL). Amber onelvlady wrote: > > Hi Lenny and thank you too for your advice. I knew from reading that the > test trips were not adequate. I will get better testing equipment > today and > see if I can find the items you recommended. I am going to go and do the > PWC now and then hit the store. The "boys" are fine this AM save for the > one. He is swimming around but does not look healthy and still not > eating. > As for the catfish, I do not know what type he is. I'll ask when I go to > the store. I bought the smallest one I could find at the store. He seems > to be OK. To me, he is just the "typical" looking catfish. LOL. > > After I make the PWC and get better testing supplies, I'll check back > in. I > think I am going to need some advice along this journey. I am a senior > and > had many tanks of fish when younger but sure don't remember worrying > about > cycling back then. One thing you mentioned I still don't understand and > that is fishless cycling. How does a tank cycle w/o fish. I thought you > needed fish to start the ammonia cycle. Just another newbie question. > > Carole > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:51 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > > Hi Carole, > > What kind of test kit do you have? You have an actual number for ammonia > but then only "ok" and "caution" for nitrate and nitrite. Usually, an > affordable master test kit will give you numbers and some dip strips will > also.. but then other dip strips will give you the "OK" type answers. > > Since your hardness is showing as high, DO NOT let the ammonia get > over the > 0.5ppm level. You will have to do frequent 25% PWC's and testing to keep > this in check. You need some level of ammonia to grow your nitrifying > bacteria but with a high pH, ammonia becomes far more toxic. > > If you could get hold of SeaChem Prime tap water treatment, it will also > help to detoxify the ammonia. Be careful of some other brands as they do > not work the same or as well in many cases. Kordon's NovaAqua Plus is > supposed to be good also but I haven't checked it out so I can't recommend > it personally. > > Also add a pinch of salt (regular table salt is fine) to you tank > (dose at a > pinch per 10G) as that will help prevent nitrite poisoning. > > Yes, the cycling with fish can cause your fish to act funny... usually > gasping or lethargic, hiding, fins clamped, etc.. Keep an eye out for more > signs of parasites but don't start treating them for parasites unless you > are sure. If you do see further signs, you might be able to treat with > just > salt and higher temps depending on what they might be. > > My bigger concern is what kind of catfish? There are literally > thousands of > species that range from 1" long to 6' (feet) long and everywhere in > between. > You need to identify what you have. Check with the store to see what they > sold you and let us know. There's a 99% chance that what they sold you > will > not work in a 10G tank. > > I think someone else already told you that you will likely be doing > daily or > twice daily 25% PWC's for the next several weeks. It's really a shame that > so many pet stores or fish stores still do this to people that they > supposedly want as a customer. Fishless Cycling would have been so much > easier on you and especially for the fish. > > If you want to learn more about being a better fish keeper, go to my blog, > then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top of that > page, there are links to two different FREE online tutorials that will > walk > you through all of the basics. Also, check out my article on "Filter > Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not make those mistakes... especially > not while trying to cycle with fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of onelvlady > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > > Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the messages > especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 weeks ago. I > have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been fine until 2 > days ago > when one of the guppies started shimming and flashing occasionally. I also > saw one other guppy flash but only once. I realize I am going thru the > ammonia cycle but don't know if the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 > days) is > sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. > > My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, > alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change > but not > sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other guppies seem > OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my question is do I have > parasites or could the problem be caused my the chemical levels???? > Definitely need some advice. > > thanks > Carole > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 > Tested on: 12/5/2008 12:51:16 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34043	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

Sorry found a link, does your catfish look like this one? http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pcatid=936 That's the catfish I was describing that ate all of it's tank-mates. Amber onelvlady wrote: > > Hi Lenny and thank you too for your advice. I knew from reading that the > test trips were not adequate. I will get better testing equipment > today and > see if I can find the items you recommended. I am going to go and do the > PWC now and then hit the store. The "boys" are fine this AM save for the > one. He is swimming around but does not look healthy and still not > eating. > As for the catfish, I do not know what type he is. I'll ask when I go to > the store. I bought the smallest one I could find at the store. He seems > to be OK. To me, he is just the "typical" looking catfish. LOL. > > After I make the PWC and get better testing supplies, I'll check back > in. I > think I am going to need some advice along this journey. I am a senior > and > had many tanks of fish when younger but sure don't remember worrying > about > cycling back then. One thing you mentioned I still don't understand and > that is fishless cycling. How does a tank cycle w/o fish. I thought you > needed fish to start the ammonia cycle. Just another newbie question. > > Carole > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:51 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > > Hi Carole, > > What kind of test kit do you have? You have an actual number for ammonia > but then only "ok" and "caution" for nitrate and nitrite. Usually, an > affordable master test kit will give you numbers and some dip strips will > also.. but then other dip strips will give you the "OK" type answers. > > Since your hardness is showing as high, DO NOT let the ammonia get > over the > 0.5ppm level. You will have to do frequent 25% PWC's and testing to keep > this in check. You need some level of ammonia to grow your nitrifying > bacteria but with a high pH, ammonia becomes far more toxic. > > If you could get hold of SeaChem Prime tap water treatment, it will also > help to detoxify the ammonia. Be careful of some other brands as they do > not work the same or as well in many cases. Kordon's NovaAqua Plus is > supposed to be good also but I haven't checked it out so I can't recommend > it personally. > > Also add a pinch of salt (regular table salt is fine) to you tank > (dose at a > pinch per 10G) as that will help prevent nitrite poisoning. > > Yes, the cycling with fish can cause your fish to act funny... usually > gasping or lethargic, hiding, fins clamped, etc.. Keep an eye out for more > signs of parasites but don't start treating them for parasites unless you > are sure. If you do see further signs, you might be able to treat with > just > salt and higher temps depending on what they might be. > > My bigger concern is what kind of catfish? There are literally > thousands of > species that range from 1" long to 6' (feet) long and everywhere in > between. > You need to identify what you have. Check with the store to see what they > sold you and let us know. There's a 99% chance that what they sold you > will > not work in a 10G tank. > > I think someone else already told you that you will likely be doing > daily or > twice daily 25% PWC's for the next several weeks. It's really a shame that > so many pet stores or fish stores still do this to people that they > supposedly want as a customer. Fishless Cycling would have been so much > easier on you and especially for the fish. > > If you want to learn more about being a better fish keeper, go to my blog, > then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top of that > page, there are links to two different FREE online tutorials that will > walk > you through all of the basics. Also, check out my article on "Filter > Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not make those mistakes... especially > not while trying to cycle with fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of onelvlady > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > > Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the messages > especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 weeks ago. I > have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been fine until 2 > days ago > when one of the guppies started shimming and flashing occasionally. I also > saw one other guppy flash but only once. I realize I am going thru the > ammonia cycle but don't know if the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 > days) is > sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. > > My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, > alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change > but not > sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other guppies seem > OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my question is do I have > parasites or could the problem be caused my the chemical levels???? > Definitely need some advice. > > thanks > Carole > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 > Tested on: 12/5/2008 12:51:16 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34044	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Best conditions for growing diatoms

The first three links are our tax dollars at waste... oops.. I meant work. LOL Apparently, some universities in the USA have way too much grant and student loan money laying around so they had to do extensive studies of diatoms. The fifth link tells how it grows in SW tanks. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/chromista/bacillariophyta.html http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/chromista/diatoms/diatomlh.html http://www.indiana.edu/~diatom/diatom.html http://www.ucl.ac.uk/GeolSci/micropal/diatom.html http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/algaecontrol/a/aa091100.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 10:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Best conditions for growing diatoms Question. Someone on the diatom list wants to make a pure culture of tropical navicula (one of the more common sorts of fresh water diatoms). I related how I'm getting fairly pure cultures of this and that sort of diatoms in my tank. Someone replied, I already moved my aquarium next to the window! I pointed out that that will only work in certain conditions. I related that I keep my biologically overloaded tank very clean and this allows colonies of single sorts of diatoms to form. Two questions. First, do diatoms form colonies in aquariums with green plants (other than algae)? Second, are diatoms found in appreciable quantities ni fully established tanks with green algae? I know that once there's green algae teh brown algae don't bloom. If the student on the tropical island in teh Pacific wants to use the aquarium method to start his culture of navicula, what would be his best strategy? I told them how I did it, but it took eight months. LOL. And he might not want to spend several hundred dollars setting up an aquarium. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 12:58:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34045	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

Hey Amber - just got back from the fish store and got a better test kit and asked what type the catfish was. They said he was a Cory catfish. Does that help? I am now more confused than before. The girl at the store told me NOT to do a 25% PWC while I am cycling. She recommended a product called SuperBac Aquarium Live - Nitrifying Bacteria. It says it accelerates cycling of new tanks, removes ammonia and nitrates naturally and quicklty establishes natural filtration. I have already done the water change and added a pinch of salt as Lenny directed. Carole in Las Vegas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > Sorry found a link, does your catfish look like this one? > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pcatid=936 > > That's the catfish I was describing that ate all of it's tank-mates. > > Amber > > onelvlady wrote: >> >> Hi Lenny and thank you too for your advice. I knew from reading that the >> test trips were not adequate. I will get better testing equipment >> today and >> see if I can find the items you recommended. I am going to go and do the >> PWC now and then hit the store. The "boys" are fine this AM save for the >> one. He is swimming around but does not look healthy and still not >> eating. >> As for the catfish, I do not know what type he is. I'll ask when I go to >> the store. I bought the smallest one I could find at the store. He seems >> to be OK. To me, he is just the "typical" looking catfish. LOL. >> >> After I make the PWC and get better testing supplies, I'll check back >> in. I >> think I am going to need some advice along this journey. I am a senior >> and >> had many tanks of fish when younger but sure don't remember worrying >> about >> cycling back then. One thing you mentioned I still don't understand and >> that is fishless cycling. How does a tank cycle w/o fish. I thought you >> needed fish to start the ammonia cycle. Just another newbie question. >> >> Carole >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:51 PM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help >> >> Hi Carole, >> >> What kind of test kit do you have? You have an actual number for ammonia >> but then only "ok" and "caution" for nitrate and nitrite. Usually, an >> affordable master test kit will give you numbers and some dip strips will >> also.. but then other dip strips will give you the "OK" type answers. >> >> Since your hardness is showing as high, DO NOT let the ammonia get >> over the >> 0.5ppm level. You will have to do frequent 25% PWC's and testing to keep >> this in check. You need some level of ammonia to grow your nitrifying >> bacteria but with a high pH, ammonia becomes far more toxic. >> >> If you could get hold of SeaChem Prime tap water treatment, it will also >> help to detoxify the ammonia. Be careful of some other brands as they do >> not work the same or as well in many cases. Kordon's NovaAqua Plus is >> supposed to be good also but I haven't checked it out so I can't >> recommend >> it personally. >> >> Also add a pinch of salt (regular table salt is fine) to you tank >> (dose at a >> pinch per 10G) as that will help prevent nitrite poisoning. >> >> Yes, the cycling with fish can cause your fish to act funny... usually >> gasping or lethargic, hiding, fins clamped, etc.. Keep an eye out for >> more >> signs of parasites but don't start treating them for parasites unless you >> are sure. If you do see further signs, you might be able to treat with >> just >> salt and higher temps depending on what they might be. >> >> My bigger concern is what kind of catfish? There are literally >> thousands of >> species that range from 1" long to 6' (feet) long and everywhere in >> between. >> You need to identify what you have. Check with the store to see what they >> sold you and let us know. There's a 99% chance that what they sold you >> will >> not work in a 10G tank. >> >> I think someone else already told you that you will likely be doing >> daily or >> twice daily 25% PWC's for the next several weeks. It's really a shame >> that >> so many pet stores or fish stores still do this to people that they >> supposedly want as a customer. Fishless Cycling would have been so much >> easier on you and especially for the fish. >> >> If you want to learn more about being a better fish keeper, go to my >> blog, >> then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top of that >> page, there are links to two different FREE online tutorials that will >> walk >> you through all of the basics. Also, check out my article on "Filter >> Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not make those mistakes... especially >> not while trying to cycle with fish. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under >> Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of onelvlady >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:49 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help >> >> Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the messages >> especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 weeks ago. I >> have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been fine until 2 >> days ago >> when one of the guppies started shimming and flashing occasionally. I >> also >> saw one other guppy flash but only once. I realize I am going thru the >> ammonia cycle but don't know if the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 >> days) is >> sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. >> >> My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, >> alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change >> but not >> sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other guppies >> seem >> OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my question is do I have >> parasites or could the problem be caused my the chemical levels???? >> Definitely need some advice. >> >> thanks >> Carole >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : >> Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 >> Tested on: 12/5/2008 12:51:16 AM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34046	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

OK. At least Corydoras http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm aren't tank busters but there are many species in that genus. You need to find out more... or if you take some good pictures, maybe someone out here can ID it for you. The various species can range from small (an inch or so) to 5" for the Giant Cory.. lol.. some giant! But these fish need to be kept in groups.. usually five or more but they sometimes do OK with only three or more. It's not advisable to add more fish now but when you get a bigger tank.. and yes you will.. lol.. then you can add more of the same species to fill out the group (called shoaling which is the same as school but when they just hang out together, it's shoaling, when they swim around in open water together, it's schooling). If you definitely will not be getting a bigger tank, then you should return the Cory since you can't fit a group of them as that would be too much of a bioload for your 10G tank to handle. I checked out a little of info on the Super Bac Nitrifying bacteria and it looks like it's based on the OLD science that so many of the other products rely on. I hope you didn't buy and/or open this yet. Here's a snip from the Super Bac product description.. but I do like how they said it would work "crazy fast"... LOL (START SNIP) Prevent fish loss with Live Nitrifying Bacteria for Freshwater Aquariums. This is true nitrifying bacteria! Cycle your aquarium crazy fast in a matter of days. Our cultured nitrosomonas and nitrobacter bacteria flat get results. (END SNIP) The problem is that the OLD science thought it was the nitrobacter bacteria but this has been proven to be wrong. Dr. Tim Hovanec, using advanced genetic testing, etc., proved it was nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira bacteria that were the correct nitrifying bacteria for aquaria. If it's like the other bad bacteria products, it would only make things worse for your cycling tank. Dr. Tim's website includes his many peer-reviewed scientific articles and a snip from one shows how he proved that nitrobacters were the wrong bacteria. I separated the pertinent sentences out of the abstract below and put HERE in front of them... http://drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/SciencePapers/SciencePapers. html (START SNIP) Hovanec, T. A., L. T. Taylor, A. Blakis and E. F. DeLong. 1998. Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264. Abstract: Oxidation of nitrite to nitrate in aquaria is typically attributed to bacteria belonging to the genus Nitrobacter which are members of the alpha subdivision of the Proteobacteria. In order to identify bacteria responsible for nitrite-oxidation in aquaria, clone libraries of rRNA genes were developed from biofilms of several freshwater aquaria. Analysis of the rDNA libraries, along with results from denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis (DGGE) on frequently sampled biofilms, HERE - indicated the presence of a putative nitrite-oxidizing bacteria closely related to the genus Nitrospira. Nucleic acid hybridization experiments with rRNA from biofilms of freshwater aquaria demonstrated that Nitrospira-like rRNA comprised nearly 5% of the rRNA extracted from the biofilms during the establishment of nitrification. HERE - Nitrite-oxidizing bacteria belonging to the alpha Proteobacteria subdivision (e. g., Nitrobacter spp.) were NOT detected in same samples. HERE - Aquaria which received a commercial preparation containing Nitrobacter species did not show evidence of Nitrobacter growth and development but did develop substantial populations of Nitrospira-like species. Time series analysis of rDNA phylotypes on aquaria biofilms by DGGE, combined with nitrite and nitrate analysis, showed a correspondence between the appearance of Nitrospira-like bacterial ribosomal DNA, and the initiation of nitrite oxidation. HERE - In total, the data suggest that Nitrobacter winogradskyi and close relatives were not the dominant nitrite-oxidizing bacteria in freshwater aquaria. Instead, nitrite oxidation in freshwater aquaria appeared to be mediated by bacteria closely related to Nitrospira moscoviensis and Nitrospira marina. (END SNIP) So now you can print this and go show the fish store people that they need to get Dr. Tim's One And Only! They can send back all of the other so-called bacteria in a bottle products. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help Hey Amber - just got back from the fish store and got a better test kit and asked what type the catfish was. They said he was a Cory catfish. Does that help? I am now more confused than before. The girl at the store told me NOT to do a 25% PWC while I am cycling. She recommended a product called SuperBac Aquarium Live - Nitrifying Bacteria. It says it accelerates cycling of new tanks, removes ammonia and nitrates naturally and quicklty establishes natural filtration. I have already done the water change and added a pinch of salt as Lenny directed. Carole in Las Vegas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > Sorry found a link, does your catfish look like this one? > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936 <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pca> &pca > tid=936 > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pc > atid=936> > > That's the catfish I was describing that ate all of it's tank-mates. > > Amber > > onelvlady wrote: >> >> Hi Lenny and thank you too for your advice. I knew from reading that >> the test trips were not adequate. I will get better testing equipment >> today and see if I can find the items you recommended. I am going to >> go and do the PWC now and then hit the store. The "boys" are fine >> this AM save for the one. He is swimming around but does not look >> healthy and still not eating. >> As for the catfish, I do not know what type he is. I'll ask when I go >> to the store. I bought the smallest one I could find at the store. He >> seems to be OK. To me, he is just the "typical" looking catfish. LOL. >> >> After I make the PWC and get better testing supplies, I'll check back >> in. I think I am going to need some advice along this journey. I am a >> senior and had many tanks of fish when younger but sure don't >> remember worrying about cycling back then. One thing you mentioned I >> still don't understand and that is fishless cycling. How does a tank >> cycle w/o fish. I thought you needed fish to start the ammonia cycle. >> Just another newbie question. >> >> Carole >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:51 PM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help >> >> Hi Carole, >> >> What kind of test kit do you have? You have an actual number for >> ammonia but then only "ok" and "caution" for nitrate and nitrite. >> Usually, an affordable master test kit will give you numbers and some >> dip strips will also.. but then other dip strips will give you the "OK" type answers. >> >> Since your hardness is showing as high, DO NOT let the ammonia get >> over the 0.5ppm level. You will have to do frequent 25% PWC's and >> testing to keep this in check. You need some level of ammonia to grow >> your nitrifying bacteria but with a high pH, ammonia becomes far more >> toxic. >> >> If you could get hold of SeaChem Prime tap water treatment, it will >> also help to detoxify the ammonia. Be careful of some other brands as >> they do not work the same or as well in many cases. Kordon's NovaAqua >> Plus is supposed to be good also but I haven't checked it out so I >> can't recommend it personally. >> >> Also add a pinch of salt (regular table salt is fine) to you tank >> (dose at a pinch per 10G) as that will help prevent nitrite >> poisoning. >> >> Yes, the cycling with fish can cause your fish to act funny... >> usually gasping or lethargic, hiding, fins clamped, etc.. Keep an eye >> out for more signs of parasites but don't start treating them for >> parasites unless you are sure. If you do see further signs, you might >> be able to treat with just salt and higher temps depending on what >> they might be. >> >> My bigger concern is what kind of catfish? There are literally >> thousands of species that range from 1" long to 6' (feet) long and >> everywhere in between. >> You need to identify what you have. Check with the store to see what >> they sold you and let us know. There's a 99% chance that what they >> sold you will not work in a 10G tank. >> >> I think someone else already told you that you will likely be doing >> daily or twice daily 25% PWC's for the next several weeks. It's >> really a shame that so many pet stores or fish stores still do this >> to people that they supposedly want as a customer. Fishless Cycling >> would have been so much easier on you and especially for the fish. >> >> If you want to learn more about being a better fish keeper, go to my >> blog, then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the >> top of that page, there are links to two different FREE online >> tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics. Also, check >> out my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not >> make those mistakes... especially not while trying to cycle with >> fish. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above >> listed on the right side under Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of onelvlady >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:49 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help >> >> Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the >> messages especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 >> weeks ago. I have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been >> fine until 2 days ago when one of the guppies started shimming and >> flashing occasionally. I also saw one other guppy flash but only >> once. I realize I am going thru the ammonia cycle but don't know if >> the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 >> days) is >> sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. >> >> My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, >> alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change >> but not sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other >> guppies seem OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my >> question is do I have parasites or could the problem be caused my the >> chemical levels???? >> Definitely need some advice. >> >> thanks >> Carole _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 4:08:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34047	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

OMG Lenny, I need a higher degree to understand all this.Years back I had 7 tanks and never a word about cycling. I'll print all this out and also read the blog and see how much I can absorb. LOL. So I figure you are saying I should return the Super Bac. I had no intention of using it until I checked with the group.The same girl also told me that my Cory would not get large but I don't know if that is true now or not. I know not to add fish now but could I get the present Cory a pal say one more?????? I figure I can have 10 fish in my tank. My one guppy is swimming around more now that I did the PWC. He still does not look healthy. I bought some blood worms to tempt him but it didn't work. How oftn can I add salt. I did get the better test kit so will check that later and let you know exact amounts. Thanks to you and others for all this help. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help OK. At least Corydoras http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm aren't tank busters but there are many species in that genus. You need to find out more... or if you take some good pictures, maybe someone out here can ID it for you. The various species can range from small (an inch or so) to 5" for the Giant Cory.. lol.. some giant! But these fish need to be kept in groups.. usually five or more but they sometimes do OK with only three or more. It's not advisable to add more fish now but when you get a bigger tank.. and yes you will.. lol.. then you can add more of the same species to fill out the group (called shoaling which is the same as school but when they just hang out together, it's shoaling, when they swim around in open water together, it's schooling). If you definitely will not be getting a bigger tank, then you should return the Cory since you can't fit a group of them as that would be too much of a bioload for your 10G tank to handle. I checked out a little of info on the Super Bac Nitrifying bacteria and it looks like it's based on the OLD science that so many of the other products rely on. I hope you didn't buy and/or open this yet. Here's a snip from the Super Bac product description.. but I do like how they said it would work "crazy fast"... LOL (START SNIP) Prevent fish loss with Live Nitrifying Bacteria for Freshwater Aquariums. This is true nitrifying bacteria! Cycle your aquarium crazy fast in a matter of days. Our cultured nitrosomonas and nitrobacter bacteria flat get results. (END SNIP) The problem is that the OLD science thought it was the nitrobacter bacteria but this has been proven to be wrong. Dr. Tim Hovanec, using advanced genetic testing, etc., proved it was nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira bacteria that were the correct nitrifying bacteria for aquaria. If it's like the other bad bacteria products, it would only make things worse for your cycling tank. Dr. Tim's website includes his many peer-reviewed scientific articles and a snip from one shows how he proved that nitrobacters were the wrong bacteria. I separated the pertinent sentences out of the abstract below and put HERE in front of them... http://drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/SciencePapers/SciencePapers. html (START SNIP) Hovanec, T. A., L. T. Taylor, A. Blakis and E. F. DeLong. 1998. Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264. Abstract: Oxidation of nitrite to nitrate in aquaria is typically attributed to bacteria belonging to the genus Nitrobacter which are members of the alpha subdivision of the Proteobacteria. In order to identify bacteria responsible for nitrite-oxidation in aquaria, clone libraries of rRNA genes were developed from biofilms of several freshwater aquaria. Analysis of the rDNA libraries, along with results from denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis (DGGE) on frequently sampled biofilms, HERE - indicated the presence of a putative nitrite-oxidizing bacteria closely related to the genus Nitrospira. Nucleic acid hybridization experiments with rRNA from biofilms of freshwater aquaria demonstrated that Nitrospira-like rRNA comprised nearly 5% of the rRNA extracted from the biofilms during the establishment of nitrification. HERE - Nitrite-oxidizing bacteria belonging to the alpha Proteobacteria subdivision (e. g., Nitrobacter spp.) were NOT detected in same samples. HERE - Aquaria which received a commercial preparation containing Nitrobacter species did not show evidence of Nitrobacter growth and development but did develop substantial populations of Nitrospira-like species. Time series analysis of rDNA phylotypes on aquaria biofilms by DGGE, combined with nitrite and nitrate analysis, showed a correspondence between the appearance of Nitrospira-like bacterial ribosomal DNA, and the initiation of nitrite oxidation. HERE - In total, the data suggest that Nitrobacter winogradskyi and close relatives were not the dominant nitrite-oxidizing bacteria in freshwater aquaria. Instead, nitrite oxidation in freshwater aquaria appeared to be mediated by bacteria closely related to Nitrospira moscoviensis and Nitrospira marina. (END SNIP) So now you can print this and go show the fish store people that they need to get Dr. Tim's One And Only! They can send back all of the other so-called bacteria in a bottle products. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help Hey Amber - just got back from the fish store and got a better test kit and asked what type the catfish was. They said he was a Cory catfish. Does that help? I am now more confused than before. The girl at the store told me NOT to do a 25% PWC while I am cycling. She recommended a product called SuperBac Aquarium Live - Nitrifying Bacteria. It says it accelerates cycling of new tanks, removes ammonia and nitrates naturally and quicklty establishes natural filtration. I have already done the water change and added a pinch of salt as Lenny directed. Carole in Las Vegas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > Sorry found a link, does your catfish look like this one? > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936 <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pca> &pca > tid=936 > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pc > atid=936> > > That's the catfish I was describing that ate all of it's tank-mates. > > Amber > > onelvlady wrote: >> >> Hi Lenny and thank you too for your advice. I knew from reading that >> the test trips were not adequate. I will get better testing equipment >> today and see if I can find the items you recommended. I am going to >> go and do the PWC now and then hit the store. The "boys" are fine >> this AM save for the one. He is swimming around but does not look >> healthy and still not eating. >> As for the catfish, I do not know what type he is. I'll ask when I go >> to the store. I bought the smallest one I could find at the store. He >> seems to be OK. To me, he is just the "typical" looking catfish. LOL. >> >> After I make the PWC and get better testing supplies, I'll check back >> in. I think I am going to need some advice along this journey. I am a >> senior and had many tanks of fish when younger but sure don't >> remember worrying about cycling back then. One thing you mentioned I >> still don't understand and that is fishless cycling. How does a tank >> cycle w/o fish. I thought you needed fish to start the ammonia cycle. >> Just another newbie question. >> >> Carole >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:51 PM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help >> >> Hi Carole, >> >> What kind of test kit do you have? You have an actual number for >> ammonia but then only "ok" and "caution" for nitrate and nitrite. >> Usually, an affordable master test kit will give you numbers and some >> dip strips will also.. but then other dip strips will give you the "OK" type answers. >> >> Since your hardness is showing as high, DO NOT let the ammonia get >> over the 0.5ppm level. You will have to do frequent 25% PWC's and >> testing to keep this in check. You need some level of ammonia to grow >> your nitrifying bacteria but with a high pH, ammonia becomes far more >> toxic. >> >> If you could get hold of SeaChem Prime tap water treatment, it will >> also help to detoxify the ammonia. Be careful of some other brands as >> they do not work the same or as well in many cases. Kordon's NovaAqua >> Plus is supposed to be good also but I haven't checked it out so I >> can't recommend it personally. >> >> Also add a pinch of salt (regular table salt is fine) to you tank >> (dose at a pinch per 10G) as that will help prevent nitrite >> poisoning. >> >> Yes, the cycling with fish can cause your fish to act funny... >> usually gasping or lethargic, hiding, fins clamped, etc.. Keep an eye >> out for more signs of parasites but don't start treating them for >> parasites unless you are sure. If you do see further signs, you might >> be able to treat with just salt and higher temps depending on what >> they might be. >> >> My bigger concern is what kind of catfish? There are literally >> thousands of species that range from 1" long to 6' (feet) long and >> everywhere in between. >> You need to identify what you have. Check with the store to see what >> they sold you and let us know. There's a 99% chance that what they >> sold you will not work in a 10G tank. >> >> I think someone else already told you that you will likely be doing >> daily or twice daily 25% PWC's for the next several weeks. It's >> really a shame that so many pet stores or fish stores still do this >> to people that they supposedly want as a customer. Fishless Cycling >> would have been so much easier on you and especially for the fish. >> >> If you want to learn more about being a better fish keeper, go to my >> blog, then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the >> top of that page, there are links to two different FREE online >> tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics. Also, check >> out my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not >> make those mistakes... especially not while trying to cycle with >> fish. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above >> listed on the right side under Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of onelvlady >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:49 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help >> >> Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the >> messages especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 >> weeks ago. I have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been >> fine until 2 days ago when one of the guppies started shimming and >> flashing occasionally. I also saw one other guppy flash but only >> once. I realize I am going thru the ammonia cycle but don't know if >> the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 >> days) is >> sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. >> >> My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, >> alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change >> but not sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other >> guppies seem OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my >> question is do I have parasites or could the problem be caused my the >> chemical levels???? >> Definitely need some advice. >> >> thanks >> Carole _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 4:08:28 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34048	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

As far as your sick guppy, will the store take him back and give you credit? Most will within a certain time frame. If not, it's best to separate a sick fish for many reasons. One, so he doesn't infect your other fish. Two, so you can treat him separately. Three, so the sick fish can feel more safe. In nature, healthy fish will often harass and kill a sick fish as part of basic survivalism of the species.. so the sick fish is actually feeling more stress from being in the tank with the healthy fish. This is why sick fish will often hide in a tank... or why it tries to act healthy. Don't worry. Understanding the nitrogen cycle and how it works and affects our fish is like learning how to ride a bike. You'll have a few stumbles and wonder how the bicycle can possibly work... but then once you get it, you got it! Take one or both of the free online tutorials that I have at the top of my "A to Z" page. Those will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping.. including the nitrogen cycle, cycling, etc. They are well written in easy to understand language (unlike that last scientific abstract that I posted.. lol). As far as more Cory's... first you need to find out what species. Corydoras is the genus and then there are many species within the genus. Some stay kind of small in the 1" to 2" range, others get to the 4" to 5" range. If you have the smallest species, then you might be able to at least have a total of three of them. You'll either have to go with at least three or rehome the one you have. NO.. you can't have 10 fish in a 10G. You can have a total of 10" of small fish (that stay under 3" as adults).. meaning 10 1" fish (as full grown adults), or three 3" fish (as full grown adults). If you have four male guppies at 2" each, then you only have room for 2 more inches of fish. If you have live plants and are willing to do frequent PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance, then you could push the bioload a little bit but not much more. As far as the salt.. it's not so much as to how often but rather how much. Salt does not go away once it's added to a tank.. except for removing the water itself. While the guppies do like a little salt in their water, the Cory doesn't so you have to decide which fish you will try to please the most and then the other will not be as happy. This is kind of like two people fighting over the temperature on the home A/C-heating system. When I was married, I was constantly lowering it to 72F and the ex- was constantly raising it to 76F. I told her I'd compromise and it was either 74 or she can hit the door! It stays at 72F now! LOL (Just kidding.. it was her credit card and spending habits that were the final straw. LOL) OK.. back to your salt. Once you decide what level of salt you are going to keep for the guppies (which further means you should not have Corys), then once you bring it to that level, whenever you do a 25% PWC (2.5 gallons), you would pre-treat the incoming 2.5 gallons to the same salinity level before adding the salty water to your tank. This way is better than adding fresh water first and then adding the salt, after a PWC, as that way would be constantly raising and lowering the salinity level with each PWC, causing potential osmotic shock issues. On my blog's fish health page, I have several articles about salt, the osmoregulatory system, etc., that you can read at a later time. Before doing an impulse buy with fish in the future, always check out the profile on the fish first. http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm is a GREAT place to check. Use the advanced section, put in the common name or Latin name and then put a bullet in the Fish section and you'll find a good profile on that fish, letting you know the preferences for the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help OMG Lenny, I need a higher degree to understand all this.Years back I had 7 tanks and never a word about cycling. I'll print all this out and also read the blog and see how much I can absorb. LOL. So I figure you are saying I should return the Super Bac. I had no intention of using it until I checked with the group.The same girl also told me that my Cory would not get large but I don't know if that is true now or not. I know not to add fish now but could I get the present Cory a pal say one more?????? I figure I can have 10 fish in my tank. My one guppy is swimming around more now that I did the PWC. He still does not look healthy. I bought some blood worms to tempt him but it didn't work. How oftn can I add salt. I did get the better test kit so will check that later and let you know exact amounts. Thanks to you and others for all this help. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help OK. At least Corydoras http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm <http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm> aren't tank busters but there are many species in that genus. You need to find out more... or if you take some good pictures, maybe someone out here can ID it for you. The various species can range from small (an inch or so) to 5" for the Giant Cory.. lol.. some giant! But these fish need to be kept in groups.. usually five or more but they sometimes do OK with only three or more. It's not advisable to add more fish now but when you get a bigger tank.. and yes you will.. lol.. then you can add more of the same species to fill out the group (called shoaling which is the same as school but when they just hang out together, it's shoaling, when they swim around in open water together, it's schooling). If you definitely will not be getting a bigger tank, then you should return the Cory since you can't fit a group of them as that would be too much of a bioload for your 10G tank to handle. I checked out a little of info on the Super Bac Nitrifying bacteria and it looks like it's based on the OLD science that so many of the other products rely on. I hope you didn't buy and/or open this yet. Here's a snip from the Super Bac product description.. but I do like how they said it would work "crazy fast"... LOL (START SNIP) Prevent fish loss with Live Nitrifying Bacteria for Freshwater Aquariums. This is true nitrifying bacteria! Cycle your aquarium crazy fast in a matter of days. Our cultured nitrosomonas and nitrobacter bacteria flat get results. (END SNIP) The problem is that the OLD science thought it was the nitrobacter bacteria but this has been proven to be wrong. Dr. Tim Hovanec, using advanced genetic testing, etc., proved it was nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira bacteria that were the correct nitrifying bacteria for aquaria. If it's like the other bad bacteria products, it would only make things worse for your cycling tank. Dr. Tim's website includes his many peer-reviewed scientific articles and a snip from one shows how he proved that nitrobacters were the wrong bacteria. I separated the pertinent sentences out of the abstract below and put HERE in front of them... http://drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/SciencePapers/SciencePapers. <http://drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/SciencePapers/SciencePapers .> html (START SNIP) Hovanec, T. A., L. T. Taylor, A. Blakis and E. F. DeLong. 1998. Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264. Abstract: Oxidation of nitrite to nitrate in aquaria is typically attributed to bacteria belonging to the genus Nitrobacter which are members of the alpha subdivision of the Proteobacteria. In order to identify bacteria responsible for nitrite-oxidation in aquaria, clone libraries of rRNA genes were developed from biofilms of several freshwater aquaria. Analysis of the rDNA libraries, along with results from denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis (DGGE) on frequently sampled biofilms, HERE - indicated the presence of a putative nitrite-oxidizing bacteria closely related to the genus Nitrospira. Nucleic acid hybridization experiments with rRNA from biofilms of freshwater aquaria demonstrated that Nitrospira-like rRNA comprised nearly 5% of the rRNA extracted from the biofilms during the establishment of nitrification. HERE - Nitrite-oxidizing bacteria belonging to the alpha Proteobacteria subdivision (e. g., Nitrobacter spp.) were NOT detected in same samples. HERE - Aquaria which received a commercial preparation containing Nitrobacter species did not show evidence of Nitrobacter growth and development but did develop substantial populations of Nitrospira-like species. Time series analysis of rDNA phylotypes on aquaria biofilms by DGGE, combined with nitrite and nitrate analysis, showed a correspondence between the appearance of Nitrospira-like bacterial ribosomal DNA, and the initiation of nitrite oxidation. HERE - In total, the data suggest that Nitrobacter winogradskyi and close relatives were not the dominant nitrite-oxidizing bacteria in freshwater aquaria. Instead, nitrite oxidation in freshwater aquaria appeared to be mediated by bacteria closely related to Nitrospira moscoviensis and Nitrospira marina. (END SNIP) So now you can print this and go show the fish store people that they need to get Dr. Tim's One And Only! They can send back all of the other so-called bacteria in a bottle products. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help Hey Amber - just got back from the fish store and got a better test kit and asked what type the catfish was. They said he was a Cory catfish. Does that help? I am now more confused than before. The girl at the store told me NOT to do a 25% PWC while I am cycling. She recommended a product called SuperBac Aquarium Live - Nitrifying Bacteria. It says it accelerates cycling of new tanks, removes ammonia and nitrates naturally and quicklty establishes natural filtration. I have already done the water change and added a pinch of salt as Lenny directed. Carole in Las Vegas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > Sorry found a link, does your catfish look like this one? > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936 > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936> <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936 <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pca <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pca> &pca > > &pca > tid=936 > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pc > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pc > > > atid=936> > > That's the catfish I was describing that ate all of it's tank-mates. > > Amber > > onelvlady wrote: >> >> Hi Lenny and thank you too for your advice. I knew from reading that >> the test trips were not adequate. I will get better testing equipment >> today and see if I can find the items you recommended. I am going to >> go and do the PWC now and then hit the store. The "boys" are fine >> this AM save for the one. He is swimming around but does not look >> healthy and still not eating. >> As for the catfish, I do not know what type he is. I'll ask when I go >> to the store. I bought the smallest one I could find at the store. He >> seems to be OK. To me, he is just the "typical" looking catfish. LOL. >> >> After I make the PWC and get better testing supplies, I'll check back >> in. I think I am going to need some advice along this journey. I am a >> senior and had many tanks of fish when younger but sure don't >> remember worrying about cycling back then. One thing you mentioned I >> still don't understand and that is fishless cycling. How does a tank >> cycle w/o fish. I thought you needed fish to start the ammonia cycle. >> Just another newbie question. >> >> Carole >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:51 PM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help >> >> Hi Carole, >> >> What kind of test kit do you have? You have an actual number for >> ammonia but then only "ok" and "caution" for nitrate and nitrite. >> Usually, an affordable master test kit will give you numbers and some >> dip strips will also.. but then other dip strips will give you the "OK" type answers. >> >> Since your hardness is showing as high, DO NOT let the ammonia get >> over the 0.5ppm level. You will have to do frequent 25% PWC's and >> testing to keep this in check. You need some level of ammonia to grow >> your nitrifying bacteria but with a high pH, ammonia becomes far more >> toxic. >> >> If you could get hold of SeaChem Prime tap water treatment, it will >> also help to detoxify the ammonia. Be careful of some other brands as >> they do not work the same or as well in many cases. Kordon's NovaAqua >> Plus is supposed to be good also but I haven't checked it out so I >> can't recommend it personally. >> >> Also add a pinch of salt (regular table salt is fine) to you tank >> (dose at a pinch per 10G) as that will help prevent nitrite >> poisoning. >> >> Yes, the cycling with fish can cause your fish to act funny... >> usually gasping or lethargic, hiding, fins clamped, etc.. Keep an eye >> out for more signs of parasites but don't start treating them for >> parasites unless you are sure. If you do see further signs, you might >> be able to treat with just salt and higher temps depending on what >> they might be. >> >> My bigger concern is what kind of catfish? There are literally >> thousands of species that range from 1" long to 6' (feet) long and >> everywhere in between. >> You need to identify what you have. Check with the store to see what >> they sold you and let us know. There's a 99% chance that what they >> sold you will not work in a 10G tank. >> >> I think someone else already told you that you will likely be doing >> daily or twice daily 25% PWC's for the next several weeks. It's >> really a shame that so many pet stores or fish stores still do this >> to people that they supposedly want as a customer. Fishless Cycling >> would have been so much easier on you and especially for the fish. >> >> If you want to learn more about being a better fish keeper, go to my >> blog, then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the >> top of that page, there are links to two different FREE online >> tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics. Also, check >> out my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not >> make those mistakes... especially not while trying to cycle with >> fish. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced >> above listed on the right side under Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of onelvlady >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:49 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help >> >> Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the >> messages especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 >> weeks ago. I have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been >> fine until 2 days ago when one of the guppies started shimming and >> flashing occasionally. I also saw one other guppy flash but only >> once. I realize I am going thru the ammonia cycle but don't know if >> the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 >> days) is >> sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. >> >> My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, >> alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change >> but not sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other >> guppies seem OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my >> question is do I have parasites or could the problem be caused my the >> chemical levels???? >> Definitely need some advice. >> >> thanks >> Carole _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 5:22:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34049	From: Lisa	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Moved my fish while cycleing.

My danios, madakas, white cloud, amd kuhli have been moved back into their original tank for the remaining two weeks of my cycle. Still not showing Niterate and Niterites. But beginning to get 1.00PPM of amonia quite often. Even without the fish. So do i let my tank run through the process with this amonia level, and let the growing benificial bacteria take care of it? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34050	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Moved my fish while cycleing.

Well.. if you don't have a source of ammonia, preferably plain ammonia that you would dose the tank with to bring up the ammonia level (during a fishless cycle), then the tank will un-cycle. Without ammonia, there will be no nitrites so any ammonia and/or nitrite eating bacteria will die off. Since the tank doesn't have fish in it, then you could use the plain ammonia method to raise the ammonia to the 4-5ppm level and fishless cycle the tank and then just keep feeding it ammonia as needed to keep it cycled until you are ready to put fish in it. A 99 cents bottle of ammonia will last a LONG time. It only takes 3-5 drops per 10G to raise the ammonia level to 4-5ppm. What about the other tank? Was it already cycled and has it stayed cycled? Without an ammonia source, the nitrifying bacteria will start dying off quickly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 5:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moved my fish while cycleing. My danios, madakas, white cloud, amd kuhli have been moved back into their original tank for the remaining two weeks of my cycle. Still not showing Niterate and Niterites. But beginning to get 1.00PPM of amonia quite often. Even without the fish. So do i let my tank run through the process with this amonia level, and let the growing benificial bacteria take care of it? Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 6:35:38 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34051	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

Lenny had lots of good advice for you, not sure what else I can help with :) I'm glad you have a cory and not one of the bigger catfish though. But Lenny is right that you're most likely going to have to choose between the guppies and the cory because cory's do not like salt in their tanks, and guppies do. You could also try platy's or molly's (but molly's can get big, so I would honestly stick to smaller varieties that don't mind salt in their tanks, platy's don't tend to get as big as most molly's so I would suggest them over mollys). Most platy's usually get around 2 inches as adults (some can get up to 3 inches from what I've read on some of the different types of platy's). Some molly's get around 3 inches and some get up to 5 inches which would be too big for your 10 gallon tank. In my 10 gallon tank I only have 2 critters, a male betta and an african dwarf frog. It's not as demanding to upkeep the tank, but I do have to pay attention to the light cycle more as I don't have any live plants in there and the algae builds up faster in it than my bigger tanks. I've learned the hard way to take everything the LFS says with a grain of salt (so to speak), they can mean well but sometimes they're just trying to sell you something else to make money and aren't really concerned about the welfare of your fish. I've found that PWC's and just watching the level of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and the pH and making sure things don't fluctuate too much is safer than adding new things to your tank (products). Amber onelvlady wrote: > > Hey Amber - just got back from the fish store and got a better test > kit and > asked what type the catfish was. They said he was a Cory catfish. Does > that help? I am now more confused than before. The girl at the store told > me NOT to do a 25% PWC while I am cycling. She recommended a product > called > SuperBac Aquarium Live - Nitrifying Bacteria. It says it accelerates > cycling of new tanks, removes ammonia and nitrates naturally and quicklty > establishes natural filtration. > > I have already done the water change and added a pinch of salt as Lenny > directed. > > Carole in Las Vegas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:14 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > > > Sorry found a link, does your catfish look like this one? > > > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pcatid=936 > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1163+936&pcatid=936> > > > > That's the catfish I was describing that ate all of it's tank-mates. > > > > Amber > > > > onelvlady wrote: > >> > >> Hi Lenny and thank you too for your advice. I knew from reading > that the > >> test trips were not adequate. I will get better testing equipment > >> today and > >> see if I can find the items you recommended. I am going to go and > do the > >> PWC now and then hit the store. The "boys" are fine this AM save > for the > >> one. He is swimming around but does not look healthy and still not > >> eating. > >> As for the catfish, I do not know what type he is. I'll ask when I > go to > >> the store. I bought the smallest one I could find at the store. He > seems > >> to be OK. To me, he is just the "typical" looking catfish. LOL. > >> > >> After I make the PWC and get better testing supplies, I'll check back > >> in. I > >> think I am going to need some advice along this journey. I am a senior > >> and > >> had many tanks of fish when younger but sure don't remember worrying > >> about > >> cycling back then. One thing you mentioned I still don't understand and > >> that is fishless cycling. How does a tank cycle w/o fish. I thought you > >> needed fish to start the ammonia cycle. Just another newbie question. > >> > >> Carole > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:51 PM > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > >> > >> Hi Carole, > >> > >> What kind of test kit do you have? You have an actual number for > ammonia > >> but then only "ok" and "caution" for nitrate and nitrite. Usually, an > >> affordable master test kit will give you numbers and some dip > strips will > >> also.. but then other dip strips will give you the "OK" type answers. > >> > >> Since your hardness is showing as high, DO NOT let the ammonia get > >> over the > >> 0.5ppm level. You will have to do frequent 25% PWC's and testing to > keep > >> this in check. You need some level of ammonia to grow your nitrifying > >> bacteria but with a high pH, ammonia becomes far more toxic. > >> > >> If you could get hold of SeaChem Prime tap water treatment, it will > also > >> help to detoxify the ammonia. Be careful of some other brands as > they do > >> not work the same or as well in many cases. Kordon's NovaAqua Plus is > >> supposed to be good also but I haven't checked it out so I can't > >> recommend > >> it personally. > >> > >> Also add a pinch of salt (regular table salt is fine) to you tank > >> (dose at a > >> pinch per 10G) as that will help prevent nitrite poisoning. > >> > >> Yes, the cycling with fish can cause your fish to act funny... usually > >> gasping or lethargic, hiding, fins clamped, etc.. Keep an eye out for > >> more > >> signs of parasites but don't start treating them for parasites > unless you > >> are sure. If you do see further signs, you might be able to treat with > >> just > >> salt and higher temps depending on what they might be. > >> > >> My bigger concern is what kind of catfish? There are literally > >> thousands of > >> species that range from 1" long to 6' (feet) long and everywhere in > >> between. > >> You need to identify what you have. Check with the store to see > what they > >> sold you and let us know. There's a 99% chance that what they sold you > >> will > >> not work in a 10G tank. > >> > >> I think someone else already told you that you will likely be doing > >> daily or > >> twice daily 25% PWC's for the next several weeks. It's really a shame > >> that > >> so many pet stores or fish stores still do this to people that they > >> supposedly want as a customer. Fishless Cycling would have been so much > >> easier on you and especially for the fish. > >> > >> If you want to learn more about being a better fish keeper, go to my > >> blog, > >> then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and right near the top of > that > >> page, there are links to two different FREE online tutorials that will > >> walk > >> you through all of the basics. Also, check out my article on "Filter > >> Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not make those mistakes... > especially > >> not while trying to cycle with fish. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > >> Archives > >> - Year, Month and under Labels) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> Behalf Of onelvlady > >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:49 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help > >> > >> Hi - I have been lurking for several weeks and reading all the messages > >> especially those on cycling. I set up a 10 gallon about 3-4 weeks > ago. I > >> have 6 male guppies and one catfish. Everyone has been fine until 2 > >> days ago > >> when one of the guppies started shimming and flashing occasionally. I > >> also > >> saw one other guppy flash but only once. I realize I am going thru the > >> ammonia cycle but don't know if the sick guppy ( hasn't eaten in 3 > >> days) is > >> sick because of a parasite or a problem with the water. > >> > >> My ammonia is .5, nitrate ok, nitrite in the caution level, PH hard, > >> alkalinity high, hardness high. I was going to do a 25% water change > >> but not > >> sure if this is the problem. Tonight I noticed that the other guppies > >> seem > >> OK, but not swimming as they were. So I guess my question is do I have > >> parasites or could the problem be caused my the chemical levels???? > >> Definitely need some advice. > >> > >> thanks > >> Carole > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>>> : > >> Outbound message clean. > >> > >> Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 > >> Tested on: 12/5/2008 12:51:16 AM > >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > >> You. > >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >> important to > >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > >> SUBJECT > >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34052	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: predators

I have been content with lurking for the most time, with occasional input. Here is a question. I have a 55 gal tank in the den, home of my pleco. That is his tank and anything else in there is incidental. Last year I added a pair of guppies, platies and swords...yes, you know where this is going. So now I have way too many guppies and platy/sword hybrids, that are lovely to look at, but it's getting crowded. I need birth control for them. The tank is highly covered with hornworth, so the babies have plenty of hiding places, but I like the way it looks and I'm reluctant of changing that. At the local Wal-Mart they have what they call "dinosaur eels". And they do look slow and predatory, but I cannot find any info on them. It's about 4 inches long and has a dorsal and single pectoral fin that start behind the head. No scientific name to go from, the person that worked the pet store was the guy from hardware....gotta love the trained staff. I looked in some of the usual links for "eel" and found anything but. Anybody know anything about them? At this point I'm looking for info, not dead set on getting one. Enid **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34053	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081204-0, 12/04/2008 Tested on: 12/5/2008 2:15:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34054	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: UV sterilizer

My 125 gallon tank came with a UV sterilizer, I was just wondering if this is safe to use on a freshwater tank? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34055	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/5/2008
Subject: Re: Predators/ Polypterus senegalus

_Click here: YouTube - Polypterus senegalus_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0tqeYVh5Tk) Never mind, found something after all! Enid Somehow I find out about what I'm looking for AFTER I ask others. :) **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34056	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081205-0, 12/05/2008 Tested on: 12/6/2008 2:02:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34057	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Predators/ Polypterus senegalus

I must have missed your original post. As usual, Mongabay.com is the first place to look for reliable information. Here's the profile/care sheet on this species of Bichir's. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Polypterus_senegalus.html I just peeked at your original message, which I did not get via email (Go Yahoo!) and if you would have Googled "dinosaur eel", the top hit would have found the Wikipedia for the Gray Bichir, aka "dinosaur eel". This is NOT a good fish to add to your current 55G tank as these fish grow to 16" and will need a larger tank.. and your pleco, if it's a common pleco is already a bioload overdose for the 55G tank. You could start culling the female guppies (or rehome them if you know anybody that needs/wants female guppies) until you only have males left. Any fry that start to show up as females could also be culled/rehomed. If you can't rehome them, then you could always make a DIY fish food for the pleco and use the guppies as a fresh fish additive. Yes, this will require you to euthanize the guppies (or just tell them they are going into the special whirlpool.. aka the new blender amusement ride. LOL) but you were thinking about a Bichir anyhow so the thought of turning them into fish food shouldn't be too morbid. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) I am copy/pasting your original message here since this reply with the edited Subject line is not showing up in the original thread. (Go Yahoo again! LOL) "I have been content with lurking for the most time, with occasional input. Here is a question. I have a 55 gal tank in the den, home of my pleco. That is his tank and anything else in there is incidental. Last year I added a pair of guppies, platies and swords...yes, you know where this is going. So now I have way too many guppies and platy/sword hybrids, that are lovely to look at, but it's getting crowded. I need birth control for them. The tank is highly covered with hornworth, so the babies have plenty of hiding places, but I like the way it looks and I'm reluctant of changing that. At the local Wal-Mart they have what they call "dinosaur eels". And they do look slow and predatory, but I cannot find any info on them. It's about 4 inches long and has a dorsal and single pectoral fin that start behind the head. No scientific name to go from, the person that worked the pet store was the guy from hardware....gotta love the trained staff. I looked in some of the usual links for "eel" and found anything but. Anybody know anything about them? At this point I'm looking for info, not dead set on getting one. Enid -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re: Predators/ Polypterus senegalus _Click here: YouTube - Polypterus senegalus_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0tqeYVh5Tk <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0tqeYVh5Tk> ) Never mind, found something after all! Enid Somehow I find out about what I'm looking for AFTER I ask others. :) **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081205-0, 12/05/2008 Tested on: 12/6/2008 2:30:23 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34058	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Predators/ Polypterus senegalus

After watching a few videos I decided "No GO" on the Poly, normally I just take guppies/platies and rehome them to the outside pond, where the turtles live, but being winter time and turtles hibernating, it's a waste. And like I said, that is Mr. Pleco's tank, anyone else is incidental. Guess I can always set up the 30 gal and start sorting them out. Most of the guppies are culls, too much unguided inbreeding has reverted them to wild type, so there really is nothing I want to keep in that bunch. Back to the drawing board in the search of a small fish predator. Thanks Lenny! Enid **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34059	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Predators/ Polypterus senegalus

Well.. the adult guppies are usually pretty good predators for babies but I guess if you have enough hornwort, some will still survive.. no matter what kind of other small predatory fish you might put in there. If you moved some/all of the hornwort into a 5G bucket for a few days, that would probably do the trick and you'd be able to remove more of the females that way also. I'm sure Mr. Pleco would love eating them too.. if he could catch them. LOL I have seen vids of plecos that learned to swim upside down on the surface to get fish flakes at feeding time. So many people think plecos are strictly scavenger fish and algae eaters and do not feed them proper diets. I can only imagine how the owners must not have realized how much that pleco was starving to learn that trick to get food. They thought he was smart.. but hunger makes you creative! LOL Fortunately, I've never gone hungry but I'm sure I'd make a good dumpster diver if the need arose... or maybe a cardboard sign "Will take care of fish for food". LOL If you quit feeding your pleco.. not that I'd suggest that.. but I'm sure he'd learn to skim the hornwort upside down sucking up babies. I wonder if baby guppies taste like baby veal? ;-) Dang.. I'm gonna have to go raid the fridge now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 2:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re: Predators/ Polypterus senegalus After watching a few videos I decided "No GO" on the Poly, normally I just take guppies/platies and rehome them to the outside pond, where the turtles live, but being winter time and turtles hibernating, it's a waste. And like I said, that is Mr. Pleco's tank, anyone else is incidental. Guess I can always set up the 30 gal and start sorting them out. Most of the guppies are culls, too much unguided inbreeding has reverted them to wild type, so there really is nothing I want to keep in that bunch. Back to the drawing board in the search of a small fish predator. Thanks Lenny! Enid _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081205-0, 12/05/2008 Tested on: 12/6/2008 4:50:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34060	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: UV sterilizer

Hi Amber, I use these devices on my Pond, and have had a 9 watt unit on my 55 gal for a long time. It is beneficial to keep free floating bacteria out of the water your fish are in. It will kill parasites as well if the right flow rate is used. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago Amber Berglund wrote: > > My 125 gallon tank came with a UV sterilizer, I was just wondering if > this is safe to use on a freshwater tank? > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34061	From: motherbear20091	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: about my African cichlids

I notice that the African cichlids have white dots on there fins what are they. I notice some have three and some have two dots. What are they there for? Let me know. Amy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34062	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Activated Carbon

Actually, the temperature mentioned is not sufficient from what I've read in the past. I remember it being around 2,000F (I'm not sure if the article meant 900F but it has 900E and I'm not familiar with that temperature gauge and could not find any mention of it). I used a snip of the below snip, in your post, to find the full article using Google and I think that author came to the same conclusions and mentions 1,600F and that it's just not cost effective for the home user to try and regenerate activated carbon. http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-150204.html I do NOT run carbon in my tanks since they are not overstocked and I do regular weekly PWC's to keep the water in good condition and to replace any utilized trace elements. In my 65G goldfish tank, with two fancy goldfish and a clown pleco, I do run SeaChem's Purigen as a more advanced chemical filtration media since the two goldfish are such a heavy bioload and I want to keep the amount of DOC's to a minimum for them between my weekly 25% PWC's and tank maintenance. It's more efficient and effective than carbon and it does not have to be thrown away every few weeks. It is a whitish color and turns dark brown as it filters impurities from the water so you know when it needs to be cleaned.. using a cup of bleach and cup of water to soak it for 24 hours. Then rinse and soak in a cup of water and some dechlor to remove the chlorine, then I let it air dry before putting the Purigen back in the filter system. I've been using the same Purigen for a couple of years now and although SeaChem says it should only be recharged a limited number of times, I've recharged it dozens of times and it still works. I did recently buy two new 100ml packs of Purigen, since they were on sale at DrsFosterSmith.com so I may finally change out my original packs and maybe use them in my other tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Chow Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon Hi Fish Hobbyists, Thought below is a good article for those who are thinking of using activated carbon: Wonder if any of you have a cheap method of recycling/regenerating the activated carbon at this point of time? "...keep in mind the holding capacity of carbon can become exhausted. Its physical adsorption bonds are weak, such as those formed by the Van der Waals forces. When carbon reaches exhaustion, desorption or leaching of the adsorbates can return them back into the system's bulk water. This is important. This means carbon can unload a portion of what has collected back into solution. Therefore, when carbon is being used in the aquarium I recommend not going too long without replacing it. A safe schedule for most aquariums would be changing it every four to eight weeks. It's better to replace it with fresh carbon on a regular basis, than have it become the root of a problem. Finally, it's not practical for the aquarist to regenerate carbon as it would require being heated to over 900°E Something the spouse may not like the oven used for. I know because I tried it! Under ideal conditions, activated carbon can remove up to 50°/ of its own weight in dissolved organic compounds. It's simply better to discard it and replace with new carbon than messing with it..." \\|// (@-@) -------oOO---OOo------- Alan Chow KETAPANG LEAVES FOR FISH & BETTAS www.alanchow76.com/ketapang --- On Thu, 4/12/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, 4 December, 2008, 2:43 AM Try charcoal and ash as medicines. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon \\Steve//, Your Google search for the history did not work for all of us IE users. I was surprised to see Firefox and Mozilla included in the search's URL, even with the TinyURL. Hmmmm.. actually I take it back. I just did my own Google search on - history of activated carbon - and my search URL also includes the words Firefox and Mozilla so I'm not sure why your search link didn't work... nor am I sure why those terms are in a Google search URL. A Google search of for a reason did not come up with anything definitive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Activated Carbon On Thanksgiving Day, my brother-in-law was joking, at least I think he was joking, about missing "The History of Activated Carbon", which immediately followed "The History of Synthetic Rubber" on TV. He is an organic chemist, so he would, at least, have a peripheral interest in such shows. So, anyhow, to chill his smugness over his little joke, I had a few minutes today to search the Web and found several sites covering the history of activated carbon, as well as other aspects of the substance. I did run across this PowerPoint presentation on activated carbon that may be of interest to the people here. However, to forewarn you, you will need to bear with one slide with a very brief history of activated carbon <g>. www.aqualitysymposi um.org/ppts/ physicalphysioce mprocesses/ CHOROMANSKI% 20 activated%20carbo. ppt TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/6z3e9l <http://tinyurl. com/6z3e9l> If you are truly curious, here is the search I did on Google for the history, and it will turn up a lot of other interesting stuff as well: http://www.google. com/search? hl=en <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en&client= firefox-a& channel=s& rls=org.mo> &client= firefox-a& channel=s& rls=org.mo> &client=firefox- a&channel= s&rls=org. mo <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en <http://www.google. com/search? hl=en&client= firefox-a& channel=s& rls=org.mo> > &client=firefox- a&channel= s&rls=org. mo> zilla:en-US: official& q=%22Activated+ carbon%22+ history&start= 0&sa=N TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl. com/663n7q <http://tinyurl. com/663n7q> \\Steve// _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081205-0, 12/05/2008 Tested on: 12/6/2008 2:20:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34063	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: about my African cichlids

Are you talking about yellow spots, primarily on their anal fins? Those are egg spots. When the fish spawn, both sexes see the spots and try to pick up the “eggs” as they circle. Both males and females can have them. If you are talking about white spots on all the fins like salt crystals, it could be ich. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of motherbear20091 Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] about my African cichlids I notice that the African cichlids have white dots on there fins what are they. I notice some have three and some have two dots. What are they there for? Let me know. Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34064	From: motherbear20091	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: about my African cichlids

I notice all African cichlids have them is they away to tell if they are male and female by hoe many spots and what is there spwning behavor? Sign Amy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34065	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?

A few days ago, I got six zebra danios but my two male cichlid convicts are still hiding. I did notice one of them peeking out today and he seemed to be watching the danios near the surface, so maybe it'll just take some time. The danios stay near the surface or at mid-level. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Farscape <Farscape@...> wrote: > > Smaller Danios can work, too, providing they are healthy and have some > place to occasionally hide out. > > Ditto too on similar fast fish, like Otos & even blue/gold (AKA 3-spot) > Gourami. > > CAE's also can work, but you might want to get rid of them after the > Cichlids learn they cannot catch them, at least once they are about 3.5" > or longer, as CAE's will attack any slower fish for their body slime > once they're at that age. > > Smaller CAE's are great, as nearly nothing can catch them, and they even > will consume black algae off your fake plants (should any take hold). > > -Forget it once the CAE matures fully, as they switch from being > herbivorous to omnivores, and will go after fish slime so aggressively > that it kills the other fish! > > At about 4.5" long, they're too much for a grown Oscar to put up with, > and once they give-up on chasing them, the Oscar is a target for slime > sucking, especially at night! > > > Shirley Reichard wrote, On 11/4/2008 3:42 PM: > > In another thread, I asked about ways to get my two male convict > > cichlids to come out of hiding. It was suggested that I add dither > > fish; tiger barb and giant danio were recommended. Okay, so I went to > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34066	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: about my African cichlids

Not all, but a lot! It is not a way to sex them, although if you have to guess, you might find more spots and brighter spots will more often be a male. They exhibit spawning behavior from birth but mature closer to 9 months. Both sexes will dig the substrate, shimmy, and chase each other in tight circles. Unfortunately, it’s both spawning and aggressive behavior, and both sexes do it. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of motherbear20091 Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about my African cichlids I notice all African cichlids have them is they away to tell if they are male and female by hoe many spots and what is there spwning behavor? Sign Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34067	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Dropping PH

I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 neon tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 cory cats and 4 amano shrimps. Parameters are: Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrates 5 PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for the test kit) KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow from first drop using Tetratest KH) PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon tanks with PH 7.0. I do 2 25% PWC a week. I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering capacity and the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering capacity maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34068	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of your tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 hours and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the rest of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us those numbers. Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are you also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? What are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? Do you have a GH test kit? Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "giuseppesalvato" <giuseppesalvato@...> wrote: > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 neon > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 cory cats > and 4 amano shrimps. > Parameters are: > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrates 5 > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for the test > kit) > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow from > first drop using Tetratest KH) > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon tanks with > PH 7.0. > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering capacity and > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering capacity > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34069	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: about my African cichlids

There are a lot of African cichlids that do not have those egg spots. __Hemichromis_ spp. For a group, another group would be _Tropheus_ spp., Aulonacara_ spp. To name a few. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of motherbear20091 Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about my African cichlids I notice all African cichlids have them is they away to tell if they are male and female by hoe many spots and what is there spwning behavor? Sign Amy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34070	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/6/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's definitely a 20G. - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081205-0, 12/05/2008 Tested on: 12/6/2008 2:02:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34071	From: Farscape	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Dither fish: won't my cichlids eat them?

Sounds like they just need time! Also, you might try increasing the number of hiding places for your convicts - this will also help them out of hiding, as they will feel more secure if there are more hiding places than fish in the species. After so long of seeing the Danios out and nothing happening to them, they will get bolder as well, but it may take some time. Shirley Reichard wrote, On 12/6/2008 3:46 PM: > A few days ago, I got six zebra danios but my two male cichlid > convicts are still hiding. I did notice one of them peeking out today > and he seemed to be watching the danios near the surface, so maybe > it'll just take some time. The danios stay near the surface or at > mid-level. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34072	From: Alina	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Ammo spike after high temp?

Hi I'm having trouble with an ammonia spike after I treated a case of Ich with 10-day heat treatment. What I did: -- Had several fish with Ich, but my inverts were sensitive to salt. So I did 87-88F for about 9 days. My levels were great the whole time. After day 5, there were no more signs of Ich, left the heat high until day 9. During that time, I did add Stress Coat to the water. -- Did PWC during that time. After the heat was lowered gradually, I did another PWC this Wednesday, I took out my decorations, cleaned them with hot tap water, removed algae from some of the fake plants. I took out 25% with a good gravel cleaning. When I put the decorations back, I dunked them first in my new water, with dechlor to remove anything that might be in the tap. -- I changed the carbon in my filter. Here is one thing I wondered while I did it tho: I dumped the old carbon right into my dirty water bucket as I rinsed the filter a bit. I refilled with carbon and put it back right away. That's it. On that Wed, my ammo levels I noticed were at .25.I noticed a slight cloudiness in the water. By Thursday they were at .50. I assumed I had an algae bloom after the heat..but I'm not sure. I have done daily PWC (25%) every day since and the levels have held at .50..but today it's at 1.O. I've been cleaning the gravel too. Nitrites are normal, as are nitrates...I am at a loss. I've added nothing new to the tank or removed anything. What could be going on? Alina

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34073	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Zeolite care

Ive used White Diamond Zeolite for ammonia spikes and it has worked. My question is what do I do with it when it is removed. I know it is reusable but  I am not sure what to do with it once removed from the tank. ie. rinse it, just let it dry, keep it in water... what? It is self made bags of pantyhose. Which I draped in the water. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34074	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care

Keep it in a sealed container with the saline solution used to recharge it... or dump the old saline solution with the removed ammonia and then add a fresh saline solution and then store it until the next emergency. At least, that's what mine says. What do the instructions on yours say? While Zeolite will work, it should only be used for emergency situations... not for normal control of ammonia. The only time I ever used was following Hurricane Katrina when I had no power for 14 days and no fresh water for five weeks. Other than that type of situation, it's not good to use Zeolite for normal cycling issues. Why are you getting ammonia spikes? If these ammonia spikes are happening in a newly set up aquarium, they should be controlled by PWC's but if you have Zeolite, I guess if you just put it in your filter system for a short time to remove the excess ammonia, that would work also. I'm not sure that just hanging it in the tank is the prescribed method. It should go in your filter reservoir or stream so that the ammonia laden water is forced over/through the Zeolite. I guess if you hung it in the tank and had a powerhead shooting water over/through the Zeolite, that would also work but I'm not sure how effective it would be just hanging in a normally circulating aquarium since the water would take the path of least resistance and just go around the nylon package, rather than through it. With using 25% PWC's, you know exactly how much ammonia you are removing... that is 25%, whereas with trying to use Zeolite, you would have to test the water every few minutes to make sure you are removing enough but that you do not remove all of the ammonia as doing so will only set you back even further in cycling the tank. Without ammonia, the nitrogen cycle will come to a dead stop and you'll be right back to starting over completely. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: > > Ive used White Diamond Zeolite for ammonia spikes and it has worked. > > My question is what do I do with it when it is removed. I know it is reusable but  I am not sure what to do with it once removed from the tank. ie. rinse it, just let it dry, keep it in water... what? > > It is self made bags of pantyhose. Which I draped in the water. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34075	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?

Nitrifying bacteria need oxygen rich water to do well. By having the temps up so high, warmer water does not hold gases as well so you had a much lower O2 level in the water. So there is a chance that you did have some die off of N-bacteria. It was probably NOT the best time to do filter maintenance. Maybe giving them a day or two of the normal tropical temps to rebuild their colonies but now that the damage is done, you'll just have to monitor things and do PWC's as needed. Didn't you also lose some plants from the high heat.. or was that a different member? If you didn't have live plants, then removing the ornaments and cleaning them removed some more of the nitrifying bacteria and scrubbing the algae also removed some of the ammonia eating things in your tank since algae are single-celled plants and eat nitrogenous wastes like ammonia. You would have also had nitrifying bacteria growing on the carbon so when you trashed that, it further removed some of the nitrifying bacteria. Hopefully, the N-bacteria will bounce back quickly and you will only experience a mini-cycle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > Hi > > I'm having trouble with an ammonia spike after I treated a case of > Ich with 10-day heat treatment. What I did: > -- Had several fish with Ich, but my inverts were sensitive to salt. > So I did 87-88F for about 9 days. My levels were great the whole > time. After day 5, there were no more signs of Ich, left the heat > high until day 9. During that time, I did add Stress Coat to the > water. > -- Did PWC during that time. After the heat was lowered gradually, I > did another PWC this Wednesday, I took out my decorations, cleaned > them with hot tap water, removed algae from some of the fake plants. > I took out 25% with a good gravel cleaning. When I put the > decorations back, I dunked them first in my new water, with dechlor > to remove anything that might be in the tap. > -- I changed the carbon in my filter. Here is one thing I wondered > while I did it tho: I dumped the old carbon right into my dirty water > bucket as I rinsed the filter a bit. I refilled with carbon and put > it back right away. > > That's it. On that Wed, my ammo levels I noticed were at .25.I > noticed a slight cloudiness in the water. By Thursday they were > at .50. I assumed I had an algae bloom after the heat..but I'm not > sure. I have done daily PWC (25%) every day since and the levels have > held at .50..but today it's at 1.O. I've been cleaning the gravel > too. Nitrites are normal, as are nitrates...I am at a loss. > > I've added nothing new to the tank or removed anything. What could be > going on? > > Alina >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34076	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care

There are no instructions. None at all. I am trying  to find resources like you and others. Plus, I know of the saline solution from reading about it but have not made one to store it in.  I thought you only added that to restart using the bags you had made again. If I can ask another question. How to lower the Nitrates in my tank? --- On Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 12:54 PM Keep it in a sealed container with the saline solution used to recharge it... or dump the old saline solution with the removed ammonia and then add a fresh saline solution and then store it until the next emergency. At least, that's what mine says. What do the instructions on yours say? While Zeolite will work, it should only be used for emergency situations.. . not for normal control of ammonia. The only time I ever used was following Hurricane Katrina when I had no power for 14 days and no fresh water for five weeks. Other than that type of situation, it's not good to use Zeolite for normal cycling issues. Why are you getting ammonia spikes? If these ammonia spikes are happening in a newly set up aquarium, they should be controlled by PWC's but if you have Zeolite, I guess if you just put it in your filter system for a short time to remove the excess ammonia, that would work also. I'm not sure that just hanging it in the tank is the prescribed method. It should go in your filter reservoir or stream so that the ammonia laden water is forced over/through the Zeolite. I guess if you hung it in the tank and had a powerhead shooting water over/through the Zeolite, that would also work but I'm not sure how effective it would be just hanging in a normally circulating aquarium since the water would take the path of least resistance and just go around the nylon package, rather than through it. With using 25% PWC's, you know exactly how much ammonia you are removing... that is 25%, whereas with trying to use Zeolite, you would have to test the water every few minutes to make sure you are removing enough but that you do not remove all of the ammonia as doing so will only set you back even further in cycling the tank. Without ammonia, the nitrogen cycle will come to a dead stop and you'll be right back to starting over completely. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> wrote: > > Ive used White Diamond Zeolite for ammonia spikes and it has worked. > > My question is what do I do with it when it is removed. I know it is reusable but  I am not sure what to do with it once removed from the tank. ie. rinse it, just let it dry, keep it in water... what? > > It is self made bags of pantyhose. Which I draped in the water. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34077	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care

What is the saline solution recipe? What part salt to water ? This was used in one of those emergencies and you stated. (zeolite) --- On Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 12:54 PM Keep it in a sealed container with the saline solution used to recharge it... or dump the old saline solution with the removed ammonia and then add a fresh saline solution and then store it until the next emergency. At least, that's what mine says. What do the instructions on yours say? While Zeolite will work, it should only be used for emergency situations.. . not for normal control of ammonia. The only time I ever used was following Hurricane Katrina when I had no power for 14 days and no fresh water for five weeks. Other than that type of situation, it's not good to use Zeolite for normal cycling issues. Why are you getting ammonia spikes? If these ammonia spikes are happening in a newly set up aquarium, they should be controlled by PWC's but if you have Zeolite, I guess if you just put it in your filter system for a short time to remove the excess ammonia, that would work also. I'm not sure that just hanging it in the tank is the prescribed method. It should go in your filter reservoir or stream so that the ammonia laden water is forced over/through the Zeolite. I guess if you hung it in the tank and had a powerhead shooting water over/through the Zeolite, that would also work but I'm not sure how effective it would be just hanging in a normally circulating aquarium since the water would take the path of least resistance and just go around the nylon package, rather than through it. With using 25% PWC's, you know exactly how much ammonia you are removing... that is 25%, whereas with trying to use Zeolite, you would have to test the water every few minutes to make sure you are removing enough but that you do not remove all of the ammonia as doing so will only set you back even further in cycling the tank. Without ammonia, the nitrogen cycle will come to a dead stop and you'll be right back to starting over completely. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> wrote: > > Ive used White Diamond Zeolite for ammonia spikes and it has worked. > > My question is what do I do with it when it is removed. I know it is reusable but  I am not sure what to do with it once removed from the tank. ie. rinse it, just let it dry, keep it in water... what? > > It is self made bags of pantyhose. Which I draped in the water. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34078	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: UV sterilizer

For a year I have been using a 25 a UV on a 90 gal FW tank and have been very happy with it. I also have a smaller UV on my qarentine tank. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Dec 6, 2008, at 1:14 AM, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: My 125 gallon tank came with a UV sterilizer, I was just wondering if this is safe to use on a freshwater tank? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34079	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?

Lenny, The carbon she removed from the filter may have held most of her bacterial colonies for nitrogen removal. The loss of a large number of the bacteria would mean there was not enough left to handle the load in the aquarium. I'd wonder why she is using carbon in the first place, since there appears to be no need for it that has been mentioned. Carbon should be used, as you well know, for removal of medications, and whenever indicated, such s removal of tannins which is a common cause of water becoming yellowish. Rather than using carbon, the space could be utilized by using gravel, which can be rinsed with old tank water when the filter is cleaned, leaving enough room in the filter, if possible by the design, to use carbon on the few occasions it may be needed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of goldlenny_blogspot Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ammo spike after high temp? Nitrifying bacteria need oxygen rich water to do well. By having the temps up so high, warmer water does not hold gases as well so you had a much lower O2 level in the water. So there is a chance that you did have some die off of N-bacteria. It was probably NOT the best time to do filter maintenance. Maybe giving them a day or two of the normal tropical temps to rebuild their colonies but now that the damage is done, you'll just have to monitor things and do PWC's as needed. Didn't you also lose some plants from the high heat.. or was that a different member? If you didn't have live plants, then removing the ornaments and cleaning them removed some more of the nitrifying bacteria and scrubbing the algae also removed some of the ammonia eating things in your tank since algae are single-celled plants and eat nitrogenous wastes like ammonia. You would have also had nitrifying bacteria growing on the carbon so when you trashed that, it further removed some of the nitrifying bacteria. Hopefully, the N-bacteria will bounce back quickly and you will only experience a mini-cycle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > Hi > > I'm having trouble with an ammonia spike after I treated a case of > Ich with 10-day heat treatment. What I did: > -- Had several fish with Ich, but my inverts were sensitive to salt. > So I did 87-88F for about 9 days. My levels were great the whole > time. After day 5, there were no more signs of Ich, left the heat > high until day 9. During that time, I did add Stress Coat to the > water. > -- Did PWC during that time. After the heat was lowered gradually, I > did another PWC this Wednesday, I took out my decorations, cleaned > them with hot tap water, removed algae from some of the fake plants. > I took out 25% with a good gravel cleaning. When I put the > decorations back, I dunked them first in my new water, with dechlor > to remove anything that might be in the tap. > -- I changed the carbon in my filter. Here is one thing I wondered > while I did it tho: I dumped the old carbon right into my dirty water > bucket as I rinsed the filter a bit. I refilled with carbon and put > it back right away. > > That's it. On that Wed, my ammo levels I noticed were at .25.I > noticed a slight cloudiness in the water. By Thursday they were > at .50. I assumed I had an algae bloom after the heat..but I'm not > sure. I have done daily PWC (25%) every day since and the levels have > held at .50..but today it's at 1.O. I've been cleaning the gravel > too. Nitrites are normal, as are nitrates...I am at a loss. > > I've added nothing new to the tank or removed anything. What could be > going on? > > Alina >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34080	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care

White Daimond brand is made by Marineland.com and now that they have sold out to an inferior company, Tetra, their website leaves much to be desired. There are no longer any product manuals or instructions on the website. When Dr. Tim Hovanec was with them, Marineland was a cutting edge company. I imagine that they'll cease to exist sometime in the near future. Here's the actual products webpage and it mentions downloading a product manual but it's simply not available. http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/products/productdetail.aspx ?id=2054&cid=1133&mid=3226 I just did a Google search to try and find if any other sites had the product manual available but nothing showed up with my first search. Here is what the brand that I have says... API's Nitra-Zorb - "... Dissolve 4 tablespoons of salt in 8 oz. of warm water and soak for two hours. Then rinse lightly in tap water. Pouch is now ready to reuse or to be stored in the jar. Resins will gradually become fouled with organic matter and therefore the pouch should be replaced when the resin beads turn dark brown...". I imagine this solution would work for all ammonia removing zeolite products but I can't promise it. I haven't used mine in years so for some reason I was thinking that I stored it in salt water solution but I'm sure I followed the directions. I just opened the jar and it smelled fresh so I guess I did. Who knows. LOL Further reading of the instructions say it should be recharged at least every five days.. or more often if you are using it to remove lots of nitrogenous waste. Nitrates are the end by-product of the nitrogen cycle. Your weekly 25% PWC's, filter maintenance and gravel vacuuming should keep them in check. As long as they stay below 40ppm (or 20ppm or lower for some fish), that is an acceptable level. If you have a heavy bioload of fish in the tank, then more frequent PWC's may be in order. It's better to do more frequent 25% PWC's rather than less frequen larger percentage PWC's. Fish become acclimated to their water... even bad water... and when you change the parameters too much, too fast, you can cause shock issues related to pH, temperature and osmoregulatory systems... none of which are good for the fish. Since you have a lot of newbie questions, I would strongly recommend that you go to my blog, the "A to Z" page and take one or both of the free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping.. answering many of your questions and possibly raising more. Feel free to come back here and ask away! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: > > There are no instructions. None at all. I am trying  to find resources like you and others. > > Plus, I know of the saline solution from reading about it but have not made one to store it in.  I thought you only added that to restart using the bags you had made again. > > If I can ask another question. How to lower the Nitrates in my tank? > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 12:54 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep it in a sealed container with the saline solution used to recharge > > it... or dump the old saline solution with the removed ammonia and then > > add a fresh saline solution and then store it until the next > > emergency. At least, that's what mine says. What do the instructions > > on yours say? > > > > While Zeolite will work, it should only be used for emergency > > situations.. . not for normal control of ammonia. The only time I ever > > used was following Hurricane Katrina when I had no power for 14 days > > and no fresh water for five weeks. Other than that type of situation, > > it's not good to use Zeolite for normal cycling issues. > > > > Why are you getting ammonia spikes? If these ammonia spikes are > > happening in a newly set up aquarium, they should be controlled by > > PWC's but if you have Zeolite, I guess if you just put it in your > > filter system for a short time to remove the excess ammonia, that would > > work also. I'm not sure that just hanging it in the tank is the > > prescribed method. It should go in your filter reservoir or stream so > > that the ammonia laden water is forced over/through the Zeolite. I > > guess if you hung it in the tank and had a powerhead shooting water > > over/through the Zeolite, that would also work but I'm not sure how > > effective it would be just hanging in a normally circulating aquarium > > since the water would take the path of least resistance and just go > > around the nylon package, rather than through it. > > > > With using 25% PWC's, you know exactly how much ammonia you are > > removing... that is 25%, whereas with trying to use Zeolite, you would > > have to test the water every few minutes to make sure you are removing > > enough but that you do not remove all of the ammonia as doing so will > > only set you back even further in cycling the tank. Without ammonia, > > the nitrogen cycle will come to a dead stop and you'll be right back to > > starting over completely. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Ive used White Diamond Zeolite for ammonia spikes and it has worked. > > > > > > My question is what do I do with it when it is removed. I know it is > > reusable but  I am not sure what to do with it once removed from the > > tank. ie. rinse it, just let it dry, keep it in water... what? > > > > > > It is self made bags of pantyhose. Which I draped in the water. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34081	From: Alina	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?

well, hell, I can't do anything right! I did it mostly to get rid of any wastes that might have built up during the ich cycle...but all you said makes sense. Of course. Lower oxygen levels, followed by a die off. Thanks...I was starting to think the water dept had added something to the entire system.. Thanks... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "goldlenny_blogspot" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Nitrifying bacteria need oxygen rich water to do well. By having the > temps up so high, warmer water does not hold gases as well so you had > a much lower O2 level in the water. So there is a chance that you > did have some die off of N-bacteria. > > It was probably NOT the best time to do filter maintenance. Maybe > giving them a day or two of the normal tropical temps to rebuild > their colonies but now that the damage is done, you'll just have to > monitor things and do PWC's as needed. > > Didn't you also lose some plants from the high heat.. or was that a > different member? If you didn't have live plants, then removing the > ornaments and cleaning them removed some more of the nitrifying > bacteria and scrubbing the algae also removed some of the ammonia > eating things in your tank since algae are single-celled plants and > eat nitrogenous wastes like ammonia. > > You would have also had nitrifying bacteria growing on the carbon so > when you trashed that, it further removed some of the nitrifying > bacteria. > > Hopefully, the N-bacteria will bounce back quickly and you will only > experience a mini-cycle. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi > > > > I'm having trouble with an ammonia spike after I treated a case of > > Ich with 10-day heat treatment. What I did: > > -- Had several fish with Ich, but my inverts were sensitive to > salt. > > So I did 87-88F for about 9 days. My levels were great the whole > > time. After day 5, there were no more signs of Ich, left the heat > > high until day 9. During that time, I did add Stress Coat to the > > water. > > -- Did PWC during that time. After the heat was lowered gradually, > I > > did another PWC this Wednesday, I took out my decorations, cleaned > > them with hot tap water, removed algae from some of the fake > plants. > > I took out 25% with a good gravel cleaning. When I put the > > decorations back, I dunked them first in my new water, with dechlor > > to remove anything that might be in the tap. > > -- I changed the carbon in my filter. Here is one thing I wondered > > while I did it tho: I dumped the old carbon right into my dirty > water > > bucket as I rinsed the filter a bit. I refilled with carbon and put > > it back right away. > > > > That's it. On that Wed, my ammo levels I noticed were at .25.I > > noticed a slight cloudiness in the water. By Thursday they were > > at .50. I assumed I had an algae bloom after the heat..but I'm not > > sure. I have done daily PWC (25%) every day since and the levels > have > > held at .50..but today it's at 1.O. I've been cleaning the gravel > > too. Nitrites are normal, as are nitrates...I am at a loss. > > > > I've added nothing new to the tank or removed anything. What could > be > > going on? > > > > Alina > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34082	From: Alina	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?

I've been told that before...I don't have a huge tank it's a 38 gal. Carbon came with the original set up and I've followed up with that system ever since...using plain old aquarium gravel would do the trick too? I assumed that the carbon helped keep the tank cleaner overall...but thanks...at this point, I tend to treat my fish naturally, as much as possible because I have snails and corys...so maybe I may never need it. The water is looking pretty clear since the last PWC, and I'll just keep following that until my bacteria colonies catch up.. Thanks Steve... Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > The carbon she removed from the filter may have held most of her > bacterial colonies for nitrogen removal. The loss of a large number of > the bacteria would mean there was not enough left to handle the load in > the aquarium. > > I'd wonder why she is using carbon in the first place, since there > appears to be no need for it that has been mentioned. Carbon should be > used, as you well know, for removal of medications, and whenever > indicated, such s removal of tannins which is a common cause of water > becoming yellowish. Rather than using carbon, the space could be > utilized by using gravel, which can be rinsed with old tank water when > the filter is cleaned, leaving enough room in the filter, if possible by > the design, to use carbon on the few occasions it may be needed. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of goldlenny_blogspot > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ammo spike after high temp? > > Nitrifying bacteria need oxygen rich water to do well. By having the > temps up so high, warmer water does not hold gases as well so you had > a much lower O2 level in the water. So there is a chance that you > did have some die off of N-bacteria. > > It was probably NOT the best time to do filter maintenance. Maybe > giving them a day or two of the normal tropical temps to rebuild > their colonies but now that the damage is done, you'll just have to > monitor things and do PWC's as needed. > > Didn't you also lose some plants from the high heat.. or was that a > different member? If you didn't have live plants, then removing the > ornaments and cleaning them removed some more of the nitrifying > bacteria and scrubbing the algae also removed some of the ammonia > eating things in your tank since algae are single-celled plants and > eat nitrogenous wastes like ammonia. > > You would have also had nitrifying bacteria growing on the carbon so > when you trashed that, it further removed some of the nitrifying > bacteria. > > Hopefully, the N-bacteria will bounce back quickly and you will only > experience a mini-cycle. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi > > > > I'm having trouble with an ammonia spike after I treated a case of > > Ich with 10-day heat treatment. What I did: > > -- Had several fish with Ich, but my inverts were sensitive to > salt. > > So I did 87-88F for about 9 days. My levels were great the whole > > time. After day 5, there were no more signs of Ich, left the heat > > high until day 9. During that time, I did add Stress Coat to the > > water. > > -- Did PWC during that time. After the heat was lowered gradually, > I > > did another PWC this Wednesday, I took out my decorations, cleaned > > them with hot tap water, removed algae from some of the fake > plants. > > I took out 25% with a good gravel cleaning. When I put the > > decorations back, I dunked them first in my new water, with dechlor > > to remove anything that might be in the tap. > > -- I changed the carbon in my filter. Here is one thing I wondered > > while I did it tho: I dumped the old carbon right into my dirty > water > > bucket as I rinsed the filter a bit. I refilled with carbon and put > > it back right away. > > > > That's it. On that Wed, my ammo levels I noticed were at .25.I > > noticed a slight cloudiness in the water. By Thursday they were > > at .50. I assumed I had an algae bloom after the heat..but I'm not > > sure. I have done daily PWC (25%) every day since and the levels > have > > held at .50..but today it's at 1.O. I've been cleaning the gravel > > too. Nitrites are normal, as are nitrates...I am at a loss. > > > > I've added nothing new to the tank or removed anything. What could > be > > going on? > > > > Alina > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34083	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care

Thanks. I tried to find a link also but could not. You have answered my questions.  I have Ammonia = 0, Nitrites = 1.0 and Nitrates = 20. The fish are happy and about 10, 1/4 inch Neon Sunburst fry are all doing well. The water is clear and  bright. I did read the zeolite helps to also clear the water ( used only when necessary and sparely ) --- On Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 1:43 PM White Daimond brand is made by Marineland.com and now that they have sold out to an inferior company, Tetra, their website leaves much to be desired. There are no longer any product manuals or instructions on the website. When Dr. Tim Hovanec was with them, Marineland was a cutting edge company. I imagine that they'll cease to exist sometime in the near future. Here's the actual products webpage and it mentions downloading a product manual but it's simply not available. http://www.marinela nd.com/sites/ Marineland/ products/ productdetail. aspx ?id=2054&cid= 1133&mid= 3226 I just did a Google search to try and find if any other sites had the product manual available but nothing showed up with my first search. Here is what the brand that I have says... API's Nitra-Zorb - "... Dissolve 4 tablespoons of salt in 8 oz. of warm water and soak for two hours. Then rinse lightly in tap water. Pouch is now ready to reuse or to be stored in the jar. Resins will gradually become fouled with organic matter and therefore the pouch should be replaced when the resin beads turn dark brown...". I imagine this solution would work for all ammonia removing zeolite products but I can't promise it. I haven't used mine in years so for some reason I was thinking that I stored it in salt water solution but I'm sure I followed the directions. I just opened the jar and it smelled fresh so I guess I did. Who knows. LOL Further reading of the instructions say it should be recharged at least every five days.. or more often if you are using it to remove lots of nitrogenous waste. Nitrates are the end by-product of the nitrogen cycle. Your weekly 25% PWC's, filter maintenance and gravel vacuuming should keep them in check. As long as they stay below 40ppm (or 20ppm or lower for some fish), that is an acceptable level. If you have a heavy bioload of fish in the tank, then more frequent PWC's may be in order. It's better to do more frequent 25% PWC's rather than less frequen larger percentage PWC's. Fish become acclimated to their water... even bad water... and when you change the parameters too much, too fast, you can cause shock issues related to pH, temperature and osmoregulatory systems... none of which are good for the fish. Since you have a lot of newbie questions, I would strongly recommend that you go to my blog, the "A to Z" page and take one or both of the free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping.. answering many of your questions and possibly raising more. Feel free to come back here and ask away! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> wrote: > > There are no instructions. None at all. I am trying  to find resources like you and others. > > Plus, I know of the saline solution from reading about it but have not made one to store it in.  I thought you only added that to restart using the bags you had made again. > > If I can ask another question. How to lower the Nitrates in my tank? > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@. ..> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 12:54 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep it in a sealed container with the saline solution used to recharge > > it... or dump the old saline solution with the removed ammonia and then > > add a fresh saline solution and then store it until the next > > emergency. At least, that's what mine says. What do the instructions > > on yours say? > > > > While Zeolite will work, it should only be used for emergency > > situations.. . not for normal control of ammonia. The only time I ever > > used was following Hurricane Katrina when I had no power for 14 days > > and no fresh water for five weeks. Other than that type of situation, > > it's not good to use Zeolite for normal cycling issues. > > > > Why are you getting ammonia spikes? If these ammonia spikes are > > happening in a newly set up aquarium, they should be controlled by > > PWC's but if you have Zeolite, I guess if you just put it in your > > filter system for a short time to remove the excess ammonia, that would > > work also. I'm not sure that just hanging it in the tank is the > > prescribed method. It should go in your filter reservoir or stream so > > that the ammonia laden water is forced over/through the Zeolite. I > > guess if you hung it in the tank and had a powerhead shooting water > > over/through the Zeolite, that would also work but I'm not sure how > > effective it would be just hanging in a normally circulating aquarium > > since the water would take the path of least resistance and just go > > around the nylon package, rather than through it. > > > > With using 25% PWC's, you know exactly how much ammonia you are > > removing... that is 25%, whereas with trying to use Zeolite, you would > > have to test the water every few minutes to make sure you are removing > > enough but that you do not remove all of the ammonia as doing so will > > only set you back even further in cycling the tank. Without ammonia, > > the nitrogen cycle will come to a dead stop and you'll be right back to > > starting over completely. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Ive used White Diamond Zeolite for ammonia spikes and it has worked. > > > > > > My question is what do I do with it when it is removed. I know it is > > reusable but  I am not sure what to do with it once removed from the > > tank. ie. rinse it, just let it dry, keep it in water... what? > > > > > > It is self made bags of pantyhose. Which I draped in the water. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34084	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care

Im sorry, I meant Nitrites. --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: From: Philip Charles <alone29784@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 1:16 PM There are no instructions. None at all. I am trying  to find resources like you and others. Plus, I know of the saline solution from reading about it but have not made one to store it in.  I thought you only added that to restart using the bags you had made again. If I can ask another question. How to lower the Nitrates in my tank? --- On Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 12:54 PM Keep it in a sealed container with the saline solution used to recharge it... or dump the old saline solution with the removed ammonia and then add a fresh saline solution and then store it until the next emergency. At least, that's what mine says. What do the instructions on yours say? While Zeolite will work, it should only be used for emergency situations.. . not for normal control of ammonia. The only time I ever used was following Hurricane Katrina when I had no power for 14 days and no fresh water for five weeks. Other than that type of situation, it's not good to use Zeolite for normal cycling issues. Why are you getting ammonia spikes? If these ammonia spikes are happening in a newly set up aquarium, they should be controlled by PWC's but if you have Zeolite, I guess if you just put it in your filter system for a short time to remove the excess ammonia, that would work also. I'm not sure that just hanging it in the tank is the prescribed method. It should go in your filter reservoir or stream so that the ammonia laden water is forced over/through the Zeolite. I guess if you hung it in the tank and had a powerhead shooting water over/through the Zeolite, that would also work but I'm not sure how effective it would be just hanging in a normally circulating aquarium since the water would take the path of least resistance and just go around the nylon package, rather than through it. With using 25% PWC's, you know exactly how much ammonia you are removing... that is 25%, whereas with trying to use Zeolite, you would have to test the water every few minutes to make sure you are removing enough but that you do not remove all of the ammonia as doing so will only set you back even further in cycling the tank. Without ammonia, the nitrogen cycle will come to a dead stop and you'll be right back to starting over completely. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> wrote: > > Ive used White Diamond Zeolite for ammonia spikes and it has worked. > > My question is what do I do with it when it is removed. I know it is reusable but  I am not sure what to do with it once removed from the tank. ie. rinse it, just let it dry, keep it in water... what? > > It is self made bags of pantyhose. Which I draped in the water. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34085	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care

You should add a pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning and do PWC's as needed to keep nitrites from going over the 1.0ppm mark. Ammonia and nitrites should always be kept at 0.0ppm but unfortunately, when cycling with fish in the tank, you have to let some build up take place in order to feed and grow your nitrifying bacteria colonies... so all you can do is monitor the levels and do PWC's as necessary to keep the levels below 1.0ppm (in most cases). If you have high pH water, then the ammonia level would have to be even lower than 1.0 in order to be safe as ammonia is much more toxic at higher pH levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: > > Im sorry, I meant Nitrites. > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: > From: Philip Charles <alone29784@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 1:16 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no instructions. None at all. I am trying  to find resources like you and others. > > > > Plus, I know of the saline solution from reading about it but have not made one to store it in.  I thought you only added that to restart using the bags you had made again. > > > > If I can ask another question. How to lower the Nitrates in my tank? > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 12:54 PM > > > > Keep it in a sealed container with the saline solution used to recharge > > > > it... or dump the old saline solution with the removed ammonia and then > > > > add a fresh saline solution and then store it until the next > > > > emergency. At least, that's what mine says. What do the instructions > > > > on yours say? > > > > While Zeolite will work, it should only be used for emergency > > > > situations.. . not for normal control of ammonia. The only time I ever > > > > used was following Hurricane Katrina when I had no power for 14 days > > > > and no fresh water for five weeks. Other than that type of situation, > > > > it's not good to use Zeolite for normal cycling issues. > > > > Why are you getting ammonia spikes? If these ammonia spikes are > > > > happening in a newly set up aquarium, they should be controlled by > > > > PWC's but if you have Zeolite, I guess if you just put it in your > > > > filter system for a short time to remove the excess ammonia, that would > > > > work also. I'm not sure that just hanging it in the tank is the > > > > prescribed method. It should go in your filter reservoir or stream so > > > > that the ammonia laden water is forced over/through the Zeolite. I > > > > guess if you hung it in the tank and had a powerhead shooting water > > > > over/through the Zeolite, that would also work but I'm not sure how > > > > effective it would be just hanging in a normally circulating aquarium > > > > since the water would take the path of least resistance and just go > > > > around the nylon package, rather than through it. > > > > With using 25% PWC's, you know exactly how much ammonia you are > > > > removing... that is 25%, whereas with trying to use Zeolite, you would > > > > have to test the water every few minutes to make sure you are removing > > > > enough but that you do not remove all of the ammonia as doing so will > > > > only set you back even further in cycling the tank. Without ammonia, > > > > the nitrogen cycle will come to a dead stop and you'll be right back to > > > > starting over completely. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ive used White Diamond Zeolite for ammonia spikes and it has worked. > > > > > > > > > > My question is what do I do with it when it is removed. I know it is > > > > reusable but  I am not sure what to do with it once removed from the > > > > tank. ie. rinse it, just let it dry, keep it in water... what? > > > > > > > > > > It is self made bags of pantyhose. Which I draped in the water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34086	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?

I just use extra filter floss poly pad media in my filter systems. These provide additional mechanical filtration and also provide lots and lots of surface areas for nitrifying bacteria to colonize. Gravel would also work but I don't think it would have as much surface area as either the carbon or the poly pad filter media.. or something like biomax or other ceramic media designed for the purpose of growing nitrifying bacteria. If you just add an extra layer of the blue/white filter padding and then when it's time to do filter maintenance, if you have 3 or 4 layers of filtration, you can clean one layer really good, when needed and the other layers can just be rinsed, squished, squeezed, etc., in some removed tank water to mostly clean the detritus out of the media without harming the good bacteria. See the two Filter Profile articles I have on my blog for more photos/details. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > I've been told that before...I don't have a huge tank it's a 38 gal. > Carbon came with the original set up and I've followed up with that > system ever since...using plain old aquarium gravel would do the > trick too? > > I assumed that the carbon helped keep the tank cleaner overall...but > thanks...at this point, I tend to treat my fish naturally, as much as > possible because I have snails and corys...so maybe I may never need > it. > > The water is looking pretty clear since the last PWC, and I'll just > keep following that until my bacteria colonies catch up.. > > Thanks Steve... > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > The carbon she removed from the filter may have held most of her > > bacterial colonies for nitrogen removal. The loss of a large number > of > > the bacteria would mean there was not enough left to handle the > load in > > the aquarium. > > > > I'd wonder why she is using carbon in the first place, since there > > appears to be no need for it that has been mentioned. Carbon should > be > > used, as you well know, for removal of medications, and whenever > > indicated, such s removal of tannins which is a common cause of > water > > becoming yellowish. Rather than using carbon, the space could be > > utilized by using gravel, which can be rinsed with old tank water > when > > the filter is cleaned, leaving enough room in the filter, if > possible by > > the design, to use carbon on the few occasions it may be needed. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of goldlenny_blogspot > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:06 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ammo spike after high temp? > > > > Nitrifying bacteria need oxygen rich water to do well. By having > the > > temps up so high, warmer water does not hold gases as well so you > had > > a much lower O2 level in the water. So there is a chance that you > > did have some die off of N-bacteria. > > > > It was probably NOT the best time to do filter maintenance. Maybe > > giving them a day or two of the normal tropical temps to rebuild > > their colonies but now that the damage is done, you'll just have to > > monitor things and do PWC's as needed. > > > > Didn't you also lose some plants from the high heat.. or was that a > > different member? If you didn't have live plants, then removing > the > > ornaments and cleaning them removed some more of the nitrifying > > bacteria and scrubbing the algae also removed some of the ammonia > > eating things in your tank since algae are single-celled plants and > > eat nitrogenous wastes like ammonia. > > > > You would have also had nitrifying bacteria growing on the carbon > so > > when you trashed that, it further removed some of the nitrifying > > bacteria. > > > > Hopefully, the N-bacteria will bounce back quickly and you will > only > > experience a mini-cycle. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > I'm having trouble with an ammonia spike after I treated a case > of > > > Ich with 10-day heat treatment. What I did: > > > -- Had several fish with Ich, but my inverts were sensitive to > > salt. > > > So I did 87-88F for about 9 days. My levels were great the whole > > > time. After day 5, there were no more signs of Ich, left the heat > > > high until day 9. During that time, I did add Stress Coat to the > > > water. > > > -- Did PWC during that time. After the heat was lowered > gradually, > > I > > > did another PWC this Wednesday, I took out my decorations, > cleaned > > > them with hot tap water, removed algae from some of the fake > > plants. > > > I took out 25% with a good gravel cleaning. When I put the > > > decorations back, I dunked them first in my new water, with > dechlor > > > to remove anything that might be in the tap. > > > -- I changed the carbon in my filter. Here is one thing I > wondered > > > while I did it tho: I dumped the old carbon right into my dirty > > water > > > bucket as I rinsed the filter a bit. I refilled with carbon and > put > > > it back right away. > > > > > > That's it. On that Wed, my ammo levels I noticed were at .25.I > > > noticed a slight cloudiness in the water. By Thursday they were > > > at .50. I assumed I had an algae bloom after the heat..but I'm > not > > > sure. I have done daily PWC (25%) every day since and the levels > > have > > > held at .50..but today it's at 1.O. I've been cleaning the gravel > > > too. Nitrites are normal, as are nitrates...I am at a loss. > > > > > > I've added nothing new to the tank or removed anything. What > could > > be > > > going on? > > > > > > Alina > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34087	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care

Ok, I will. My PH is 7.6 - 7.8 Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 2:36 PM You should add a pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning and do PWC's as needed to keep nitrites from going over the 1.0ppm mark. Ammonia and nitrites should always be kept at 0.0ppm but unfortunately, when cycling with fish in the tank, you have to let some build up take place in order to feed and grow your nitrifying bacteria colonies... so all you can do is monitor the levels and do PWC's as necessary to keep the levels below 1.0ppm (in most cases). If you have high pH water, then the ammonia level would have to be even lower than 1.0 in order to be safe as ammonia is much more toxic at higher pH levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> wrote: > > Im sorry, I meant Nitrites. > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> wrote: > From: Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 1:16 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no instructions. None at all. I am trying  to find resources like you and others. > > > > Plus, I know of the saline solution from reading about it but have not made one to store it in.  I thought you only added that to restart using the bags you had made again. > > > > If I can ask another question. How to lower the Nitrates in my tank? > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 12:54 PM > > > > Keep it in a sealed container with the saline solution used to recharge > > > > it... or dump the old saline solution with the removed ammonia and then > > > > add a fresh saline solution and then store it until the next > > > > emergency. At least, that's what mine says. What do the instructions > > > > on yours say? > > > > While Zeolite will work, it should only be used for emergency > > > > situations.. . not for normal control of ammonia. The only time I ever > > > > used was following Hurricane Katrina when I had no power for 14 days > > > > and no fresh water for five weeks. Other than that type of situation, > > > > it's not good to use Zeolite for normal cycling issues. > > > > Why are you getting ammonia spikes? If these ammonia spikes are > > > > happening in a newly set up aquarium, they should be controlled by > > > > PWC's but if you have Zeolite, I guess if you just put it in your > > > > filter system for a short time to remove the excess ammonia, that would > > > > work also. I'm not sure that just hanging it in the tank is the > > > > prescribed method. It should go in your filter reservoir or stream so > > > > that the ammonia laden water is forced over/through the Zeolite. I > > > > guess if you hung it in the tank and had a powerhead shooting water > > > > over/through the Zeolite, that would also work but I'm not sure how > > > > effective it would be just hanging in a normally circulating aquarium > > > > since the water would take the path of least resistance and just go > > > > around the nylon package, rather than through it. > > > > With using 25% PWC's, you know exactly how much ammonia you are > > > > removing... that is 25%, whereas with trying to use Zeolite, you would > > > > have to test the water every few minutes to make sure you are removing > > > > enough but that you do not remove all of the ammonia as doing so will > > > > only set you back even further in cycling the tank. Without ammonia, > > > > the nitrogen cycle will come to a dead stop and you'll be right back to > > > > starting over completely. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ive used White Diamond Zeolite for ammonia spikes and it has worked. > > > > > > > > > > My question is what do I do with it when it is removed. I know it is > > > > reusable but  I am not sure what to do with it once removed from the > > > > tank. ie. rinse it, just let it dry, keep it in water... what? > > > > > > > > > > It is self made bags of pantyhose. Which I draped in the water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34088	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Zeolite care

With that pH level, you should not let your ammonia get over 0.5ppm in the future. If you are using a product like SeaChem's Prime as your tap water dechlor, then you could push things a little higher. This page shows how pH and temperture increases make ammonia much more toxic. You can click on the various ammonia levels and see the charts showing where the danger and toxic levels are at based on pH and water temperature. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html Lenny Vasbinder --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: > > Ok, I will. My PH is 7.6 - 7.8 > > > > > Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 2:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > You should add a pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite > > poisoning and do PWC's as needed to keep nitrites from going over the > > 1.0ppm mark. > > > > Ammonia and nitrites should always be kept at 0.0ppm but > > unfortunately, when cycling with fish in the tank, you have to let > > some build up take place in order to feed and grow your nitrifying > > bacteria colonies... so all you can do is monitor the levels and do > > PWC's as necessary to keep the levels below 1.0ppm (in most cases). > > If you have high pH water, then the ammonia level would have to be > > even lower than 1.0 in order to be safe as ammonia is much more toxic > > at higher pH levels. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Im sorry, I meant Nitrites. > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Philip Charles <alone29784@ ...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 1:16 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no instructions. None at all. I am trying  to > > find resources like you and others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus, I know of the saline solution from reading about it but have > > not made one to store it in.  I thought you only added that to > > restart using the bags you had made again. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I can ask another question. How to lower the Nitrates in my tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Zeolite care > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 12:54 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep it in a sealed container with the saline solution used to > > recharge > > > > > > > > > > > > it... or dump the old saline solution with the removed ammonia and > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > add a fresh saline solution and then store it until the next > > > > > > > > > > > > emergency. At least, that's what mine says. What do the > > instructions > > > > > > > > > > > > on yours say? > > > > > > > > > > > > While Zeolite will work, it should only be used for emergency > > > > > > > > > > > > situations.. . not for normal control of ammonia. The only time I > > ever > > > > > > > > > > > > used was following Hurricane Katrina when I had no power for 14 > > days > > > > > > > > > > > > and no fresh water for five weeks. Other than that type of > > situation, > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not good to use Zeolite for normal cycling issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you getting ammonia spikes? If these ammonia spikes are > > > > > > > > > > > > happening in a newly set up aquarium, they should be controlled by > > > > > > > > > > > > PWC's but if you have Zeolite, I guess if you just put it in your > > > > > > > > > > > > filter system for a short time to remove the excess ammonia, that > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > work also. I'm not sure that just hanging it in the tank is the > > > > > > > > > > > > prescribed method. It should go in your filter reservoir or stream > > so > > > > > > > > > > > > that the ammonia laden water is forced over/through the Zeolite. I > > > > > > > > > > > > guess if you hung it in the tank and had a powerhead shooting water > > > > > > > > > > > > over/through the Zeolite, that would also work but I'm not sure how > > > > > > > > > > > > effective it would be just hanging in a normally circulating > > aquarium > > > > > > > > > > > > since the water would take the path of least resistance and just go > > > > > > > > > > > > around the nylon package, rather than through it. > > > > > > > > > > > > With using 25% PWC's, you know exactly how much ammonia you are > > > > > > > > > > > > removing... that is 25%, whereas with trying to use Zeolite, you > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > have to test the water every few minutes to make sure you are > > removing > > > > > > > > > > > > enough but that you do not remove all of the ammonia as doing so > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > only set you back even further in cycling the tank. Without > > ammonia, > > > > > > > > > > > > the nitrogen cycle will come to a dead stop and you'll be right > > back to > > > > > > > > > > > > starting over completely. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Charles > > <alone29784@ ...> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ive used White Diamond Zeolite for ammonia spikes and it has > > worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My question is what do I do with it when it is removed. I know it > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > reusable but  I am not sure what to do with it once removed from > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > tank. ie. rinse it, just let it dry, keep it in water... what? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is self made bags of pantyhose. Which I draped in the water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34089	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Silver Dollars

Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading online that they can grow to about 6-7 inches.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34090	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars

They get the size of saucer plates and up! I had three about 8 inches. They get tall as well so like with monos and angels you have to make sure you have a tall enough tank. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "*Carol Lynn*" <childofgod19832003@...> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 20:47:39 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading online that they can grow to about 6-7 inches. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34091	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they break? One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for it. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34092	From: harry perry	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Super glue will work. Allow to dry follow the directions. Harry --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they break? One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for it. Thanks, Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34093	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Will super glue hold long enough and through taking the hoses off the filter (wear and tear basically)? My husband was thinking of using 3part epoxy or JB weld. Amber harry perry wrote: > > Super glue will work. Allow to dry follow the directions. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they break? > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for it. > > Thanks, > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34094	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

I use aquarium sealent for everything. Old habit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 13:27:12 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Super glue will work. Allow to dry follow the directions. Harry --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they break? One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for it. Thanks, Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34095	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they break? One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for it. Thanks, Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34096	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars

omg...lol...imma have to get a bigger tank! Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: "allie1068@..." <allie1068@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:06:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars They get the size of saucer plates and up! I had three about 8 inches. They get tall as well so like with monos and angels you have to make sure you have a tall enough tank. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "*Carol Lynn*" <childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 20:47:39 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading online that they can grow to about 6-7 inches. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34097	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars

Yea you'll need a decent size tank and they grow pretty fast too. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Carol Lynn <childofgod19832003@...> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 13:31:26 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars omg...lol...imma have to get a bigger tank! Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: "allie1068@..." <allie1068@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:06:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars They get the size of saucer plates and up! I had three about 8 inches. They get tall as well so like with monos and angels you have to make sure you have a tall enough tank. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "*Carol Lynn*" <childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 20:47:39 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading online that they can grow to about 6-7 inches. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34098	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars

Jeez...maybe I'll trade em at the fish store...lol. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: "allie1068@..." <allie1068@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:32:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars Yea you'll need a decent size tank and they grow pretty fast too. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Carol Lynn <childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 13:31:26 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars omg...lol... imma have to get a bigger tank! Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "allie1068@yahoo. com" <allie1068@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:06:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars They get the size of saucer plates and up! I had three about 8 inches. They get tall as well so like with monos and angels you have to make sure you have a tall enough tank. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "*Carol Lynn*" <childofgod19832003 @ yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 20:47:39 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading online that they can grow to about 6-7 inches. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34099	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. Acrylic epoxy is used for sealing the insides of acrylic tanks so it's safe to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not smelly any longer. If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the screw tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the break (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google search for your model and issue, you might find others with the same complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs permanently. Check with Eheim first though. Lenny Vasbinder --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they break? > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for it. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34100	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't found it anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it could be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water will be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a spot that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the part that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is what broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's nothing to clamp onto :( I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and waiting just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. Amber goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. Acrylic > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of acrylic tanks so it's safe > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > smelly any longer. > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the screw > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the break > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the same > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> > wrote: > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > break? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > on if they break? > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for > it. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34101	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be reporting that crappy part on every website you can find and wait to see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many years ago in front of the dealership and stood on the car picketing the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL Lenny Vasbinder --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't found it > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it could > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water will > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a spot > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the part > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is what > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > nothing to clamp onto :( > I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and waiting > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > Amber > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. Acrylic > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of acrylic tanks so it's safe > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > smelly any longer. > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the screw > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the break > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the same > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles <alone29784@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > break? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > on if they break? > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34102	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Wow! Most filters have guarentees through the manufacter and they usually do pretty well about helping their customers. I wouldn't go screaming around like a lunatic I wouldn't put anyone in that possition but what can I say I'm a hippie at heart and tend to be understanding since I work in retail on a daily basis. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "goldlenny_blogspot" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:19:58 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be reporting that crappy part on every website you can find and wait to see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many years ago in front of the dealership and stood on the car picketing the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL Lenny Vasbinder --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't found it > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it could > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water will > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a spot > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the part > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is what > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > nothing to clamp onto :( > I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and waiting > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > Amber > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. Acrylic > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of acrylic tanks so it's safe > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > smelly any longer. > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the screw > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the break > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the same > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles <alone29784@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > break? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > on if they break? > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34103	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: eggs?

I have two buenos aires tetras in a communty tank, one of them is a little bloated, swims normally, and no protruding scales. could it be filled with eggs? if so what do i do, should i separate it to a different tank or just let it be?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34104	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Now, that's interesting.  Do you glue the pebbles to an armat ure or are they self-supported?  I've been thinking about making a tunnel, for the amusement of my Yoyo squadron, by using aquarium silicone to glue pebbles to pvc pipe, but the stuff isn't very attractive. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Charles" <alone29784@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 1:31:37 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund < amber@... > wrote: From: Amber Berglund < amber@... > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they break? One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for it. Thanks, Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34105	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final results. To answer some of the other questions: - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result on both tap water and tank water - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March 08) to 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 gallon tank last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the filter - Details of the other 2 tanks: > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2-3 times a week 20-30% each time > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week - I don't have a GH test - I use tap water from public utility - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "goldlenny_blogspot" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of your > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 hours > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the rest > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us > those numbers. > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are you > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? What > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "giuseppesalvato" > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 neon > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 cory > cats > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > Parameters are: > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrates 5 > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for the > test > > kit) > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow > from > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon tanks > with > > PH 7.0. > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering capacity > and > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > capacity > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34106	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

super glue seems like it would be too toxic i wouldn't use anyhting other than aquarium silicon to repair anyhting that will touch the water --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they break? > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for it. > > Thanks, > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34107	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: UV sterilizer

Yep.... but usually not needed all of the time. Many people with MTS will just have one UV filter that they move from tank to tank as needed. They will kill things in the water column that go through the UV filter... such as green water algae, water borne bacteria and some parasites, etc. They are not needed to run full time on a tank. The bulbs need to be changed out every so-many hours as they lose their effectiveness over time and are not cheap so that's why most people do not run the UV's full time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] UV sterilizer My 125 gallon tank came with a UV sterilizer, I was just wondering if this is safe to use on a freshwater tank? Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 Tested on: 12/7/2008 5:37:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?

Hey.. you found this group so you did something right! ;-) There is always a chance that your water utility will change the way they disinfect the water. It's a good idea to keep an eye on them when you keep fish. There are still some utilities that still use chlorine instead of chloramine and if folks do not keep an eye on their utilities, they could end up with problems... especially people that would just age the water for 24-48 hours to outgas the chlorine. Chloramine will not outgas as easily and from what I've read, it takes a couple of weeks for it to break down and the chlorine to outgas so a proper dechlor product should be used.. just in case. On my blog article about "Chlorine-Chloramine", I have more info and a link to the EPA's website to check your local water utility's annual water report.. for those that publish them online. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alina Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ammo spike after high temp? well, hell, I can't do anything right! I did it mostly to get rid of any wastes that might have built up during the ich cycle...but all you said makes sense. Of course. Lower oxygen levels, followed by a die off. Thanks...I was starting to think the water dept had added something to the entire system.. Thanks... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "goldlenny_blogspot" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Nitrifying bacteria need oxygen rich water to do well. By having the > temps up so high, warmer water does not hold gases as well so you had > a much lower O2 level in the water. So there is a chance that you did > have some die off of N-bacteria. > > It was probably NOT the best time to do filter maintenance. Maybe > giving them a day or two of the normal tropical temps to rebuild their > colonies but now that the damage is done, you'll just have to monitor > things and do PWC's as needed. > > Didn't you also lose some plants from the high heat.. or was that a > different member? If you didn't have live plants, then removing the > ornaments and cleaning them removed some more of the nitrifying > bacteria and scrubbing the algae also removed some of the ammonia > eating things in your tank since algae are single-celled plants and > eat nitrogenous wastes like ammonia. > > You would have also had nitrifying bacteria growing on the carbon so > when you trashed that, it further removed some of the nitrifying > bacteria. > > Hopefully, the N-bacteria will bounce back quickly and you will only > experience a mini-cycle. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi > > > > I'm having trouble with an ammonia spike after I treated a case of > > Ich with 10-day heat treatment. What I did: > > -- Had several fish with Ich, but my inverts were sensitive to > salt. > > So I did 87-88F for about 9 days. My levels were great the whole > > time. After day 5, there were no more signs of Ich, left the heat > > high until day 9. During that time, I did add Stress Coat to the > > water. > > -- Did PWC during that time. After the heat was lowered gradually, > I > > did another PWC this Wednesday, I took out my decorations, cleaned > > them with hot tap water, removed algae from some of the fake > plants. > > I took out 25% with a good gravel cleaning. When I put the > > decorations back, I dunked them first in my new water, with dechlor > > to remove anything that might be in the tap. > > -- I changed the carbon in my filter. Here is one thing I wondered > > while I did it tho: I dumped the old carbon right into my dirty > water > > bucket as I rinsed the filter a bit. I refilled with carbon and put > > it back right away. > > > > That's it. On that Wed, my ammo levels I noticed were at .25.I > > noticed a slight cloudiness in the water. By Thursday they were at > > .50. I assumed I had an algae bloom after the heat..but I'm not > > sure. I have done daily PWC (25%) every day since and the levels > have > > held at .50..but today it's at 1.O. I've been cleaning the gravel > > too. Nitrites are normal, as are nitrates...I am at a loss. > > > > I've added nothing new to the tank or removed anything. What could > be > > going on? > > > > Alina _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 Tested on: 12/7/2008 5:58:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34109	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: cichlids and dither fish - more hiding places

Thanks Farscape for the encouraging words! I've noticed the zebras are being a bit more curious about their new home, and are swimming nearer the bottom of the tank; one of the cichlids is constantly peeking out from his hidey-hole. Increasing the number of hiding places is problematic at this point -- the cichlids' territory is about half of the 40-gallon, with the two of them hiding in a very large, fake tree trunk. I had made another place at the other end with driftwood and a small fake tree trunk, but the plec has taken that over. If I were to add more hiding places, I'd have to remove something and greatly rearrange the tank. I'll wait and see if the cichlids meander out. But maybe rearranging the tank might help? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Farscape <Farscape@...> wrote: > > Sounds like they just need time! > > Also, you might try increasing the number of hiding places for your > convicts - this will also help them out of hiding, as they will feel > more secure if there are more hiding places than fish in the species. > > After so long of seeing the Danios out and nothing happening to them, > they will get bolder as well, but it may take some time. > > > Shirley Reichard wrote, On 12/6/2008 3:46 PM: > > A few days ago, I got six zebra danios but my two male cichlid > > convicts are still hiding. I did notice one of them peeking out today > > and he seemed to be watching the danios near the surface, so maybe > > it'll just take some time. The danios stay near the surface or at > > mid-level. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34110	From: joesbirds@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Dropping PH

With the fish you mention the 6.0 ph should be fine. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34111	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

I just freely attach them to each other and make my own design. I can't see spending money on a ornament when I can make some. My fish Love this tunnels and homes and I use just plain dollar store Super Glue. --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Dreamsteeds <Dreamsteeds@...> wrote: From: Dreamsteeds <Dreamsteeds@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 5:37 PM Now, that's interesting.  Do you glue the pebbles to an armat ure or are they self-supported?  I've been thinking about making a tunnel, for the amusement of my Yoyo squadron, by using aquarium silicone to glue pebbles to pvc pipe, but the stuff isn't very attractive. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Charles" <alone29784@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 1:31:37 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund < amber@rose-fields. com > wrote: From: Amber Berglund < amber@rose-fields. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they break? One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for it. Thanks, Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34112	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

silicon is flexible I thought? seems like it would fall off by taking the hoses off the filter during maintenance. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > super glue seems like it would be too toxic > i wouldn't use anyhting other than aquarium silicon to repair anyhting > that will touch the water > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they > break? > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for > it. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34113	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the bottom most of the time. - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not quite 20ppm - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a 20G tank DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's definitely a 20G. - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081205-0, 12/05/2008 Tested on: 12/6/2008 2:02:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34114	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Neato!  Good to know...thanks. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Charles" <alone29784@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:20:02 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? I just freely attach them to each other and make my own design. I can't see spending money on a ornament when I can make some. My fish Love this tunnels and homes and I use just plain dollar store Super Glue. --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Dreamsteeds < Dreamsteeds@... > wrote: From: Dreamsteeds < Dreamsteeds@... > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 5:37 PM Now, that's interesting.  Do you glue the pebbles to an armat ure or are they self-supported?  I've been thinking about making a tunnel, for the amusement of my Yoyo squadron, by using aquarium silicone to glue pebbles to pvc pipe, but the stuff isn't very attractive. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Charles" <alone29784@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 1:31:37 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund < amber@rose-fields. com > wrote: From: Amber Berglund < amber@rose-fields. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they break? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they break? One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for it. Thanks, Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34115	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

LOL. Well, peace, love and drugs only got the hippies so far.. and usually not close enough to a shower. LOL There's a reason that the saying "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" is still around and the hippies mostly aren't. ;-) I usually only play the P/O'd card when normal requests are falling on deaf ears. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allie1068@... Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Wow! Most filters have guarentees through the manufacter and they usually do pretty well about helping their customers. I wouldn't go screaming around like a lunatic I wouldn't put anyone in that possition but what can I say I'm a hippie at heart and tend to be understanding since I work in retail on a daily basis. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "goldlenny_blogspot" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:19:58 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be reporting that crappy part on every website you can find and wait to see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many years ago in front of the dealership and stood on the car picketing the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL Lenny Vasbinder --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't found it > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it could > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water will > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a spot > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the part > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is what > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > nothing to clamp onto :( I'm thinking that I'd be better off just > buying a new part and waiting > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > Amber > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. Acrylic > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of acrylic tanks so it's safe > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > smelly any longer. > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the screw > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the break > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the same > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles <alone29784@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > break? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > on if they break? > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 Tested on: 12/7/2008 7:19:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34116	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?

I believe what happened to your tank was when you changed out the carbon, you lost a good colony of nitrifying bacteria. This is what may have caused your spike. Using gravel, instead, will provide a more permanent home for these colonies of bacteria. You do not mention what filter you have, some models are more difficult to set up this way than others. There may be another solution that works better for your particular filter. Activate carbon supplied by filter makers is usually not provided in enough quantity to do your tank much good. Recently, there was a discussion here that covered the topic of activated carbon, you might want to search the archives for that particular thread or threads. The problem with using activated carbon in the aquarium is that you do not know when it has become depleted. When that happens, it begins to release compounds back into the water. Best to depend on regular water changes to handle the removal of undesired compounds. The best use of carbon is to remove drugs that have been used to treat fish and that color the water, such as malachite green, and methyline blue, and acriflavin. It will also remove other drugs as well. I did mention, in another post, that it will also help remove tannins and similar substances as well. However, once the need has passed, it is time to remove the carbon, until the next time its use is indicated. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Alina > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ammo spike after high temp? > > I've been told that before...I don't have a huge tank it's a 38 gal. > Carbon came with the original set up and I've followed up with that > system ever since...using plain old aquarium gravel would do the > trick too? > > I assumed that the carbon helped keep the tank cleaner overall...but > thanks...at this point, I tend to treat my fish naturally, as much as > possible because I have snails and corys...so maybe I may never need > it. > > The water is looking pretty clear since the last PWC, and I'll just > keep following that until my bacteria colonies catch up.. > > Thanks Steve... > > Alina > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > The carbon she removed from the filter may have held most of her > > bacterial colonies for nitrogen removal. The loss of a large number > of > > the bacteria would mean there was not enough left to handle the > load in > > the aquarium. > > > > I'd wonder why she is using carbon in the first place, since there > > appears to be no need for it that has been mentioned. Carbon should > be > > used, as you well know, for removal of medications, and whenever > > indicated, such s removal of tannins which is a common cause of > water > > becoming yellowish. Rather than using carbon, the space could be > > utilized by using gravel, which can be rinsed with old tank water > when > > the filter is cleaned, leaving enough room in the filter, if > possible by > > the design, to use carbon on the few occasions it may be needed. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of goldlenny_blogspot > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:06 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ammo spike after high temp? > > > > Nitrifying bacteria need oxygen rich water to do well. By having > the > > temps up so high, warmer water does not hold gases as well so you > had > > a much lower O2 level in the water. So there is a chance that you > > did have some die off of N-bacteria. > > > > It was probably NOT the best time to do filter maintenance. Maybe > > giving them a day or two of the normal tropical temps to rebuild > > their colonies but now that the damage is done, you'll just have to > > monitor things and do PWC's as needed. > > > > Didn't you also lose some plants from the high heat.. or was that a > > different member? If you didn't have live plants, then removing > the > > ornaments and cleaning them removed some more of the nitrifying > > bacteria and scrubbing the algae also removed some of the ammonia > > eating things in your tank since algae are single-celled plants and > > eat nitrogenous wastes like ammonia. > > > > You would have also had nitrifying bacteria growing on the carbon > so > > when you trashed that, it further removed some of the nitrifying > > bacteria. > > > > Hopefully, the N-bacteria will bounce back quickly and you will > only > > experience a mini-cycle. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > I'm having trouble with an ammonia spike after I treated a case > of > > > Ich with 10-day heat treatment. What I did: > > > -- Had several fish with Ich, but my inverts were sensitive to > > salt. > > > So I did 87-88F for about 9 days. My levels were great the whole > > > time. After day 5, there were no more signs of Ich, left the heat > > > high until day 9. During that time, I did add Stress Coat to the > > > water. > > > -- Did PWC during that time. After the heat was lowered > gradually, > > I > > > did another PWC this Wednesday, I took out my decorations, > cleaned > > > them with hot tap water, removed algae from some of the fake > > plants. > > > I took out 25% with a good gravel cleaning. When I put the > > > decorations back, I dunked them first in my new water, with > dechlor > > > to remove anything that might be in the tap. > > > -- I changed the carbon in my filter. Here is one thing I > wondered > > > while I did it tho: I dumped the old carbon right into my dirty > > water > > > bucket as I rinsed the filter a bit. I refilled with carbon and > put > > > it back right away. > > > > > > That's it. On that Wed, my ammo levels I noticed were at .25.I > > > noticed a slight cloudiness in the water. By Thursday they were > > > at .50. I assumed I had an algae bloom after the heat..but I'm > not > > > sure. I have done daily PWC (25%) every day since and the levels > > have > > > held at .50..but today it's at 1.O. I've been cleaning the gravel > > > too. Nitrites are normal, as are nitrates...I am at a loss. > > > > > > I've added nothing new to the tank or removed anything. What > could > > be > > > going on? > > > > > > Alina > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34117	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars

It depend on what species you have, but they all will grow to around 6-7" TL (total length), just as you have read. As mentioned elsewhere, you will need a larger and longer tank, with plenty of plants (they like their veggies) and a good cover, as they will have a tendency to jump when startled. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > *Carol Lynn* > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver > Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they > will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading online > that they can grow to about 6-7 inches. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34118	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

You did all that for a Model T? Wow Lenny, did Henry Ford send you an apology letter:) -Mike, who finally dragged home his 70 gallon Tall and 110 gallon Tanks from his old house! ed to fix the lemon at no charge. That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 2:19 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be reporting that crappy part on every website you can find and wait to see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many years ago in front of the dealership and stood on the car picketing the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL0A Lenny Vasbinder --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't found it > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it could > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water will > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a spot > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the part > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is what > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > nothing to clamp onto :( > I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and waiting > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > Amber > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. Acrylic > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of acrylic tanks so it's safe > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > smelly any longer. > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the scre w > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the break > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the same > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles <alone29784@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > break? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=2 0> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > on if they break? > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34119	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Cured super glue, despite what it seems to you, is perfectly safe to use in aquaria, and, as someone has already mentioned, it is often used to glue stonework together. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 5:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > super glue seems like it would be too toxic > i wouldn't use anyhting other than aquarium silicon to repair anyhting > that will touch the water > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they > break? > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for > it. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34120	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Hi \\Steve// Many of the planted fish tank enthusiasts use superglue on live plants to attach it to an item in the tank, say a rock, filter intake, or a piece of wood. FWIW -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 5:50 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Cured super glue, despite what it seems to you, is perfectly safe to use in aquaria, and, as someone has already mentioned, it is often used to glue stonework together. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 5:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > super glue seems like it would be too toxic > i wouldn't use anyhting other than aquarium silicon to repair anyhting > that will touch the water > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back on if they > break? > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for > it. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34121	From: Nedra	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!

I'm rinsing and rinsing this stuff and I think it's dissolving -- the water in the bucket isn't getting any cleaner -- I pour it out and rinse again and again. Am I supposed to just use this stuff and let the clay particles settle or am I supposed to rinse until the water runs clear. I'm exhausted!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34122	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars

Okay. One's green and one's a red color. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:44:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars It depend on what species you have, but they all will grow to around 6-7" TL (total length), just as you have read. As mentioned elsewhere, you will need a larger and longer tank, with plenty of plants (they like their veggies) and a good cover, as they will have a tendency to jump when startled. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > *Carol Lynn* > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver > Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they > will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading online > that they can grow to about 6-7 inches. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34123	From: Alina	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Ammo spike after high temp?

Yes, I actually did check out that blog item some months back and tried to check mine but they don't publish....this is a small town....and believe it or not, I can actually call and get a person live...so I'll do that tomorrow. The reason I thougth it might be my utility is that during the whole heat period, none of my levels spiked...it was all good. But obviously, I did do some things wrong anyway...and then the same thing is happening in a second tank that's fully cycled and only had three guppies (I know they're poopers, but c'mon!).. Still, I'll do my PWC until I know what's what... Thank you Lenny. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hey.. you found this group so you did something right! ;-) > > There is always a chance that your water utility will change the way they > disinfect the water. It's a good idea to keep an eye on them when you keep > fish. There are still some utilities that still use chlorine instead of > chloramine and if folks do not keep an eye on their utilities, they could > end up with problems... especially people that would just age the water for > 24-48 hours to outgas the chlorine. Chloramine will not outgas as easily > and from what I've read, it takes a couple of weeks for it to break down and > the chlorine to outgas so a proper dechlor product should be used.. just in > case. > > On my blog article about "Chlorine-Chloramine", I have more info and a link > to the EPA's website to check your local water utility's annual water > report.. for those that publish them online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alina > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ammo spike after high temp? > > > well, hell, I can't do anything right! I did it mostly to get rid of any > wastes that might have built up during the ich cycle...but all you said > makes sense. Of course. Lower oxygen levels, followed by a die off. > > Thanks...I was starting to think the water dept had added something to the > entire system.. > > Thanks... > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "goldlenny_blogspot" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Nitrifying bacteria need oxygen rich water to do well. By having > the > > temps up so high, warmer water does not hold gases as well so you > had > > a much lower O2 level in the water. So there is a chance that you did > > have some die off of N-bacteria. > > > > It was probably NOT the best time to do filter maintenance. Maybe > > giving them a day or two of the normal tropical temps to rebuild their > > colonies but now that the damage is done, you'll just have to monitor > > things and do PWC's as needed. > > > > Didn't you also lose some plants from the high heat.. or was that a > > different member? If you didn't have live plants, then removing > the > > ornaments and cleaning them removed some more of the nitrifying > > bacteria and scrubbing the algae also removed some of the ammonia > > eating things in your tank since algae are single-celled plants and > > eat nitrogenous wastes like ammonia. > > > > You would have also had nitrifying bacteria growing on the carbon > so > > when you trashed that, it further removed some of the nitrifying > > bacteria. > > > > Hopefully, the N-bacteria will bounce back quickly and you will > only > > experience a mini-cycle. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > , "Alina" <alambiet@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > I'm having trouble with an ammonia spike after I treated a case > of > > > Ich with 10-day heat treatment. What I did: > > > -- Had several fish with Ich, but my inverts were sensitive to > > salt. > > > So I did 87-88F for about 9 days. My levels were great the whole > > > time. After day 5, there were no more signs of Ich, left the heat > > > high until day 9. During that time, I did add Stress Coat to the > > > water. > > > -- Did PWC during that time. After the heat was lowered > gradually, > > I > > > did another PWC this Wednesday, I took out my decorations, > cleaned > > > them with hot tap water, removed algae from some of the fake > > plants. > > > I took out 25% with a good gravel cleaning. When I put the > > > decorations back, I dunked them first in my new water, with > dechlor > > > to remove anything that might be in the tap. > > > -- I changed the carbon in my filter. Here is one thing I > wondered > > > while I did it tho: I dumped the old carbon right into my dirty > > water > > > bucket as I rinsed the filter a bit. I refilled with carbon and > put > > > it back right away. > > > > > > That's it. On that Wed, my ammo levels I noticed were at .25.I > > > noticed a slight cloudiness in the water. By Thursday they were at > > > .50. I assumed I had an algae bloom after the heat..but I'm > not > > > sure. I have done daily PWC (25%) every day since and the levels > > have > > > held at .50..but today it's at 1.O. I've been cleaning the gravel > > > too. Nitrites are normal, as are nitrates...I am at a loss. > > > > > > I've added nothing new to the tank or removed anything. What > could > > be > > > going on? > > > > > > Alina > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 > Tested on: 12/7/2008 5:58:15 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34124	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!

I think the package says “pre-washed, but may be rinsed”. I only use Flourite inside polyester pillows (I bury them under rocks). I rinse until the water runs clear once, but without much stirring. This helps retain the nutrients, and the polyester contains the “dirt” you aren’t able to remove. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Florite -- I can't get it clean!! I'm rinsing and rinsing this stuff and I think it's dissolving -- the water in the bucket isn't getting any cleaner -- I pour it out and rinse again and again. Am I supposed to just use this stuff and let the clay particles settle or am I supposed to rinse until the water runs clear. I'm exhausted!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34125	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars

Your green one is likely to be _Metynnis hypsauchen_, but the photo I am looking at has an overall greenish tinge to it. The red one is probably something else. Do a Google image search on "Metynnis" (without the quotes) and see what comes up. That should help you identify the fish you have. However, it really does not matter, since they will all grow within an inch of 6" TL. You do not mention the tank size you have, nor the other fish contained within, so one cannot opine about what you need to be doing. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Carol Lynn > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > Okay. One's green and one's a red color. > > > Carol Lynn Cumberland > childofgod19832003@... > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:44:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > It depend on what species you have, but they all will grow to around > 6-7" TL (total length), just as you have read. As mentioned elsewhere, > you will need a larger and longer tank, with plenty of plants (they like > their veggies) and a good cover, as they will have a tendency to jump > when startled. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of > > *Carol Lynn* > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > > Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver > > Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they > > will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading online > > that they can grow to about 6-7 inches. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34126	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: eggs?

no suggestions? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > I have two buenos aires tetras in a communty tank, one of them is a > little bloated, swims normally, and no protruding scales. could it be > filled with eggs? if so what do i do, should i separate it to a > different tank or just let it be? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34127	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Dang straight.. and it was a custom all Black paint job too... and I was the only buyer getting that color.. at least, that's what the salesman told me! And I walked to school, and the Model T dealership, through five miles of 3' deep snow in the middle of winter too! Oh yeah.. after all that, Hank and I are on a first name basis. Well, he's Hank to his friends... it's Mr. Ford to the rest of you! ;-) So... did you have to carry those tanks from your cave... oops, I meant your "old house"... in a rickshaw? ;-) Amber.... see what you started. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? You did all that for a Model T? Wow Lenny, did Henry Ford send you an apology letter:) -Mike, who finally dragged home his 70 gallon Tall and 110 gallon Tanks from his old house! ed to fix the lemon at no charge. That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 2:19 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be reporting that crappy part on every website you can find and wait to see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many years ago in front of the dealership and stood on the car picketing the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL0A Lenny Vasbinder --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't found it > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it could > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water will > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a spot > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the part > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is what > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > nothing to clamp onto :( > I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and waiting > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > Amber > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. Acrylic > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of acrylic tanks so it's safe > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > smelly any longer. > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the scre w > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the break > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the same > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles <alone29784@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > break? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=2 0> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > on if they break? > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 Tested on: 12/7/2008 9:50:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34128	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: eggs?

http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/chariciforms/buenosaires tetra.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_caudovittatus.html http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?ID=51004 Females are generally paler and less colorful and plumper than males.. who are smaller and more colorful. This site, near the bottom has a series of photos where they try to distinguish between females and males. You'll see where the fins are a deeper color on the males. Do you have a Q-tank you could move the fatter fish to? Usually an egg laying fish is not going to get "a little bloated" (using your word) although they will get a little plumper around just the belly nearer to the vent. If the fish is bloating all over or further towards the head, it could be other issues like digestive tract blockage (aka constipation) or internal bacterial issues. Have you seen this fish pooping? This is one of the reasons for moving a potentially sick fish to a Q-tank... a fishes poop will tell you a lot about what is going on inside the fish. On my blog's Fish Health page, I have a series of links to various Fish Poop diagnosis pages with photos of what the different poops are most likely to be. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: eggs? no suggestions? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > I have two buenos aires tetras in a communty tank, one of them is a > little bloated, swims normally, and no protruding scales. could it be > filled with eggs? if so what do i do, should i separate it to a > different tank or just let it be? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 Tested on: 12/7/2008 10:07:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34129	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars

I have a ten gallon tank. Sorry. I forgot to mention it. And thanks a lot. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 10:26:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars Your green one is likely to be _Metynnis hypsauchen_, but the photo I am looking at has an overall greenish tinge to it. The red one is probably something else. Do a Google image search on "Metynnis" (without the quotes) and see what comes up. That should help you identify the fish you have. However, it really does not matter, since they will all grow within an inch of 6" TL. You do not mention the tank size you have, nor the other fish contained within, so one cannot opine about what you need to be doing. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Carol Lynn > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > Okay. One's green and one's a red color. > > > Carol Lynn Cumberland > childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:44:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > It depend on what species you have, but they all will grow to around > 6-7" TL (total length), just as you have read. As mentioned elsewhere, > you will need a larger and longer tank, with plenty of plants (they like > their veggies) and a good cover, as they will have a tendency to jump > when startled. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of > > *Carol Lynn* > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > > Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver > > Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they > > will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading online > > that they can grow to about 6-7 inches. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34130	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars

You would be looking at a 55 gallon tank, as a minimum, for a home for your silver dollars, and a few other fish. Either return the fish for something else much smaller as adults, or immediately start planning to get a larger tank, the sooner the better, to keep your fish in. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Carol Lynn > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 10:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > I have a ten gallon tank. Sorry. I forgot to mention it. And thanks a lot. > > > > Carol Lynn Cumberland > childofgod19832003@... > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 10:26:01 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > Your green one is likely to be _Metynnis hypsauchen_, but the photo I am > looking at has an overall greenish tinge to it. The red one is probably > something else. Do a Google image search on "Metynnis" (without the > quotes) and see what comes up. That should help you identify the fish > you have. However, it really does not matter, since they will all grow > within an inch of 6" TL. You do not mention the tank size you have, nor > the other fish contained within, so one cannot opine about what you need > to be doing. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of > > Carol Lynn > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > > Okay. One's green and one's a red color. > > > > > > Carol Lynn Cumberland > > childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:44:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > > > > It depend on what species you have, but they all will grow to around > > 6-7" TL (total length), just as you have read. As mentioned elsewhere, > > you will need a larger and longer tank, with plenty of plants (they > like > > their veggies) and a good cover, as they will have a tendency to jump > > when startled. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com] > > On Behalf Of > > > *Carol Lynn* > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:48 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > > > > Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver > > > Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they > > > will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading > online > > > that they can grow to about 6-7 inches. > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34131	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: eggs?

it's fairly fat, majorily in the stomach area. yeah thankfully i just moved the fish out of my 10 gallon this morning to use as a Q tank before i saw the fat fish so i moved her to the Q tank. I hate had a issue before in a different tank with bloating where the scales were just sticking way out looked like a porcupine this doesn't look like that, i hope it's eggs, just not sure if the other one is a male or what to do to make sure that the eggs hatch --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > http://www.aquatic- hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/chariciforms/buenosaires > tetra.html > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hemigrammus_caudovittatus.html > > http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?ID=51004 > > Females are generally paler and less colorful and plumper than males.. who > are smaller and more colorful. > > This site, near the bottom has a series of photos where they try to > distinguish between females and males. You'll see where the fins are a > deeper color on the males. > > Do you have a Q-tank you could move the fatter fish to? Usually an egg > laying fish is not going to get "a little bloated" (using your word) > although they will get a little plumper around just the belly nearer to the > vent. If the fish is bloating all over or further towards the head, it > could be other issues like digestive tract blockage (aka constipation) or > internal bacterial issues. Have you seen this fish pooping? This is one of > the reasons for moving a potentially sick fish to a Q-tank... a fishes poop > will tell you a lot about what is going on inside the fish. On my blog's > Fish Health page, I have a series of links to various Fish Poop diagnosis > pages with photos of what the different poops are most likely to be. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: eggs? > > no suggestions? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Courtland Jacob" > <courtland_jacob@> wrote: > > > > I have two buenos aires tetras in a communty tank, one of them is a > > little bloated, swims normally, and no protruding scales. could it > be > > filled with eggs? if so what do i do, should i separate it to a > > different tank or just let it be? > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 > Tested on: 12/7/2008 10:07:19 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34132	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Silver Dollars

Coolness. Thanks very much. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 11:18:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars You would be looking at a 55 gallon tank, as a minimum, for a home for your silver dollars, and a few other fish. Either return the fish for something else much smaller as adults, or immediately start planning to get a larger tank, the sooner the better, to keep your fish in. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Carol Lynn > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 10:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > I have a ten gallon tank. Sorry. I forgot to mention it. And thanks a lot. > > > > Carol Lynn Cumberland > childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 10:26:01 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > Your green one is likely to be _Metynnis hypsauchen_, but the photo I am > looking at has an overall greenish tinge to it. The red one is probably > something else. Do a Google image search on "Metynnis" (without the > quotes) and see what comes up. That should help you identify the fish > you have. However, it really does not matter, since they will all grow > within an inch of 6" TL. You do not mention the tank size you have, nor > the other fish contained within, so one cannot opine about what you need > to be doing. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of > > Carol Lynn > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > > Okay. One's green and one's a red color. > > > > > > Carol Lynn Cumberland > > childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:44:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > > > > It depend on what species you have, but they all will grow to around > > 6-7" TL (total length), just as you have read. As mentioned elsewhere, > > you will need a larger and longer tank, with plenty of plants (they > like > > their veggies) and a good cover, as they will have a tendency to jump > > when startled. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com] > > On Behalf Of > > > *Carol Lynn* > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:48 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Silver Dollars > > > > > > Hello, Everyone! Just a quick question. I just bought two Silver > > > Dollar fish and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how big they > > > will get? The woman at Walmart told me 2 inches and I'm reading > online > > > that they can grow to about 6-7 inches. > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34133	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: eggs?

Thats happening to my zebra danio. And i actually found a single fry yesterday, But before i had a chance to save it, it was gobbled up. I suspect it had brothers and sisters as well at one point...   Lisa   Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34134	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You either need to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding something to raise the pH while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion in the city pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then once the ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. Often, a utility will add Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry issues by keeping fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming the pH will drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH (acidic) and soft water. Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact them to get your annual water report which would reveal what they are adding to the water. Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to the fifth paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the condition you are seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour baseline. It would be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of giuseppesalvato Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final results. To answer some of the other questions: - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result on both tap water and tank water - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March 08) to 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 gallon tank last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the filter - Details of the other 2 tanks: > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2-3 times a week 20-30% each time > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week - I don't have a GH test - I use tap water from public utility - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "goldlenny_blogspot" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon bucket > or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of your > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 hours > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the rest > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us > those numbers. > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are you > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? What > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "giuseppesalvato" > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 neon > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 cory > cats > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > Parameters are: > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrates 5 > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for the > test > > kit) > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow > from > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon tanks > with > > PH 7.0. > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering capacity > and > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > capacity > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 12:09:38 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34135	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/7/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

- 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the bottom most of the time. - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not quite 20ppm - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a 20G tank DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's definitely a 20G. - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081205-0, 12/05/2008 Tested on: 12/6/2008 2:02:02 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34136	From: Kevin	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: fishes mouth routing off?

how is this posable one of my betas mouth routed off just like the fins do something could this be bacause i used the net in my turtel tank wich maybe had some harm full bateria?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34137	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other surface areas of the tank. Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and frequent PWC's. Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the bottom most of the time. - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not quite 20ppm - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a 20G tank DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's definitely a 20G. - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 4:19:50 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34138	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: fishes mouth routing off?

Mouth rot is a fungal infection that can be treated easily but is best effective if treated early. Antibiotics are the most effective treatment. Copper based medications as well as surfactants like benzalkonium chloride work best. But these medications most likely have to be treated in a tank with some filtration. Make sure that you read all directions because some are dangerous for certain species of fish. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Kevin" <kev48us@...> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:39:50 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] fishes mouth routing off? how is this posable one of my betas mouth routed off just like the fins do something could this be bacause i used the net in my turtel tank wich maybe had some harm full bateria? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34139	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Q about quarintine tank

I am setting up a quarintine tank (10 gal) to have standing by for random purchases and unexpected illnesses... assembled all equipment, water, I put gravel from my "real" tank in and some ammonia... but here's my question after I get it cycled... do I have to keep "feeding" it ammonia as long as it is empty to keep the bacteria alive so the tank will be ready, standing by when it is needed? Diana

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34140	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Agressive Goldfish???

Hey Guys A few days ago I noticed that two of my goldfish (mainly 1, the other was more following the leader) were ganging up on another goldfish. As I was watching to try to figure out what was going on, it became very clear this was NOT play. I have NEVER had an issue with agression in my goldfish and have never seen anything like this with them...it was relentless. And, it was wierd, after chasing him all over at high speeds non stop, when he caught up with the one being chased, he would wiggle his body all along side of him, kind rubbing up on him, and would push himslef on him to the point that the other poor fish would get pushed up against the side of the tank, or the plants, or anything that he tried to hide in to escape this. And it would not stop. I could tell that it would not stop until the fish being harassed was moved to another tank for the time being, thats how bad it was. Something about it - the obsessive nature of it, the frenzy the fish chasing the other was in, the way he rubbed up, ....made me think this was a breeding thing. I dont know anything about breeding goldfish or how they act when they do, but this made me think that breeding could be what this was. My fish are starting to get really big and its time to re-home them since my 30 gal wont be able to take it anymore. Not sure if you all remember, but I didnt know anything about goldfish really (I had a few when I was a kid), and was sold 5 for a 10 gal!!!! I know, its shocking to me STILL!! So I went out and bought the largest tank I could afford and also fit to give them a good home until they grew to big for what I have, and we are at that time I think. Since then, I have got really into the hobby, learned as much as I could - and still try to learn as much as I can everyday-, joined groups, and got another tank - so now I have 3 - 2 10 gals and 1 30 gals, and have got into other breeds that do better in 30 and under and are less dirty, anyways, I may keep one goldfish, it depends...thats another question! Anyways, what do you think was really going on here??? It was intense, and the poor fish was getting exhuasted, I have no idea how long it was going on before I stepped in...is this normal?? Breeding behavior maybe? Just a territorial fish (are goldfish even territorial??)? Thanks guys! Sorry so this was so loooong LOL Dr. Katie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34141	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Q about quarintine tank

I am new to this hobby, but I know that yes you will have to do that to keep the bacteria alive. However I do not think that most hobbyists are doing that. I think that they add the bacteria from the working tank just before they put fish in. After all the bio load will be small, as you are not going to add a full tank load of fish. You could also feed sparingly at first to help reduce the bio-load. And you always have the PWC to keep things on track... I will wait to see what the people who know more have to say... On 12/8/08, Diana Brooks <diana_brooks@...> wrote: > > I am setting up a quarintine tank (10 gal) to have standing by for > random purchases and unexpected illnesses... assembled all equipment, > water, I put gravel from my "real" tank in and some ammonia... but > here's my question after I get it cycled... do I have to > keep "feeding" it ammonia as long as it is empty to keep the bacteria > alive so the tank will be ready, standing by when it is needed? > Diana > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34142	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

Results from first baseline test on tap water: KH no reading PH 8.2 Ammonia 0.5 Nitrite 0 Nitrates 0 Next test will be posted in 24 hours Questions: - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their value is 0? I figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. - How about ammonia and KH? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You either need > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the low-buffered > water from your tap. They are apparently adding something to raise the pH > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion in the city > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then once the > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. Often, a utility > will add > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry issues by keeping > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming the pH will > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH (acidic) and soft > water. > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact them to get > your annual water report which would reveal what they are adding to the > water. > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to the fifth > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the condition you are > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour baseline. It would > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final results. > > To answer some of the other questions: > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result on both tap > water and tank water > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March 08) to > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 gallon tank > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the filter > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2-3 > times a week 20-30% each time > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > - I don't have a GH test > - I use tap water from public utility > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "goldlenny_blogspot" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon bucket > > or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of > your > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > hours > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the > rest > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us > > those numbers. > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are > you > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? > What > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "giuseppesalvato" > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 > neon > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 cory > > cats > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > Parameters are: > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrates 5 > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for the > > test > > > kit) > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow > > from > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon tanks > > with > > > PH 7.0. > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > capacity > > and > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > capacity > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 > Tested on: 12/8/2008 12:09:38 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34143	From: bill1433	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Agressive Goldfish???

Hi Dr. Katie!   Don't know for sure about Goldfish in general but one thing is for sure....................   From what you are describing, its time to shop for a bigger tank.  If you have the room a monster, if not ,what ever your purse and space will allow but at least a 55 is in order.  I don't remember what size your fish are but I do know some of the fancy variety's can get large.  Time to go shopping!   Bill --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Dr. Katie Craft <mom2angeldog@...> wrote: From: Dr. Katie Craft <mom2angeldog@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Agressive Goldfish??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 10:11 AM Hey Guys A few days ago I noticed that two of my goldfish (mainly 1, the other was more following the leader) were ganging up on another goldfish. As I was watching to try to figure out what was going on, it became very clear this was NOT play. I have NEVER had an issue with agression in my goldfish and have never seen anything like this with them...it was relentless. And, it was wierd, after chasing him all over at high speeds non stop, when he caught up with the one being chased, he would wiggle his body all along side of him, kind rubbing up on him, and would push himslef on him to the point that the other poor fish would get pushed up against the side of the tank, or the plants, or anything that he tried to hide in to escape this. And it would not stop. I could tell that it would not stop until the fish being harassed was moved to another tank for the time being, thats how bad it was. Something about it - the obsessive nature of it, the frenzy the fish chasing the other was in, the way he rubbed up, ....made me think this was a breeding thing. I dont know anything about breeding goldfish or how they act when they do, but this made me think that breeding could be what this was. My fish are starting to get really big and its time to re-home them since my 30 gal wont be able to take it anymore. Not sure if you all remember, but I didnt know anything about goldfish really (I had a few when I was a kid), and was sold 5 for a 10 gal!!!! I know, its shocking to me STILL!! So I went out and bought the largest tank I could afford and also fit to give them a good home until they grew to big for what I have, and we are at that time I think. Since then, I have got really into the hobby, learned as much as I could - and still try to learn as much as I can everyday-, joined groups, and got another tank - so now I have 3 - 2 10 gals and 1 30 gals, and have got into other breeds that do better in 30 and under and are less dirty, anyways, I may keep one goldfish, it depends...thats another question! Anyways, what do you think was really going on here??? It was intense, and the poor fish was getting exhuasted, I have no idea how long it was going on before I stepped in...is this normal?? Breeding behavior maybe? Just a territorial fish (are goldfish even territorial? ?)? Thanks guys! Sorry so this was so loooong LOL Dr. Katie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34144	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: fishes mouth routing off?

It's certainly possible that there was some kind of cross contamination but oftentimes, pathogens that are bad for one species do not always pose the same threat for another species... of course, my ex-wife certainly could have had mad-cow disease. LOL There are exceptions. There could be a bad pathogen in your turtle tank that does not bother the turtles but then when you used the same net in your betta tank, it is causing problems for your betta. It's best to NOT use the same nets on multiple tanks without sterilizing them between use. It's usually cheaper and easier to just get separate nets/tools for each tank. Usually, the seriousness of the issue that you describe will not happen overnight but would take days or even weeks to happen. How long have you noticed a problem? Is the Betta by itself or with other fish? This kind of damage that happens overnight is usually associated with a fight rather than disease but using a broad spectrum antibiotic (Maracyn 1 & 2 are one such medicine) would be my recommendation to not only help kill the pathogen but also to prevent further infection during the healing process. This treatment will oftentimes harm the nitrifying bacteria (the good ones) in your tank and filter so keep an eye on your water test results for ammonia and nitrite and do PWC's (partial water changes) as needed to keep them below the toxic zone. Sometimes, it's hard to diagnose a fish health issue without seeing it first hand... but typically, if this has been going on for a while, Columnaris would be a common cause. If you give us more info, one of the members might be able to give better advice. Go to this page and check out the pictures and treatment options for more details. http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee (Pandora's Fish Palace Disease Archived Page) Also tell us more about the tank that the Betta is kept in. If it's in a vase or small bowl, you will have to do daily PWC's from now on to keep the water in excellent condition to prevent this from happening again.. or to any other Betta's you may have in similar conditions. You cannot wait a week between doing PWC's or do 100% water changes on Bettas. This is not good for them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fishes mouth routing off? how is this posable one of my betas mouth routed off just like the fins do something could this be bacause i used the net in my turtel tank wich maybe had some harm full bateria? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 1:01:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Q about quarintine tank

The easier thing to do is to have the filter system that you will use on the Q-tank running in your main tank so it constantly stays cycled. If this isn't an option or you don't want the added filtration, then take the filter media or cartridge from the Q-tank's filter system and put it in the reservoir of your main filter so that the filter media/cartridge gets cycled and is always ready to put in the Q-tanks filter as needed. Make sure you disinfect the filter media/cartridge before putting it back into your main tank after the quarantine/hospital treatment is over. I just put an extra filter sponge or poly-pad in all of my filters so I have extra cycled media always ready to go into a Q-tank or H-tank situation. Others will keep small sponge filters running in a back corner of their tanks and just move that sponge filter over to their Q-tank or H-tank as needed. If you wanted to keep the Q-tank up and running and cycled all the time, then yes, you would have to dose it with ammonia to 1-2ppm every day... or more if you planned on putting a larger bioload in the tank. A typical properly stocked tank will create 4-5ppm of ammonia each day so you do not have to keep the Q-tank cycled to that level.. unless you want to have it ready to add a full bioload of fish at all times. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Q about quarintine tank I am setting up a quarintine tank (10 gal) to have standing by for random purchases and unexpected illnesses... assembled all equipment, water, I put gravel from my "real" tank in and some ammonia... but here's my question after I get it cycled... do I have to keep "feeding" it ammonia as long as it is empty to keep the bacteria alive so the tank will be ready, standing by when it is needed? Diana _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 1:09:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Agressive Goldfish???

Males going after a female during mating times will often appear to be aggression. They will typically push at the anal vent area trying to induce egg laying. Typically, mating season is when their cooler waters start to turn warmer in the spring but this can be intentionally or inadvertently induced by doing PWC's with cooler water to lower the temps.. and then doing PWC's with warmer water to imitate Spring... and then you know what happens when Spring is in the air! ;-) Male goldfish will develop breeding tubercles (aka breeding stars) which looks like salt sprinkles on the leading edges of their pectoral fins and gill covers. Females will not get these breeding tubercles. It could be you have two ready males (or would that be randy males.. lol) and one female. In that case, you should separate the female to give her a rest.. or put a tank divider in the tank. This page shows good pics of the breeding tubercles and also changes in the vent on males and females but it's harder to check that on some fancy goldfish with flowing fins. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Katie Craft Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Agressive Goldfish??? Hey Guys A few days ago I noticed that two of my goldfish (mainly 1, the other was more following the leader) were ganging up on another goldfish. As I was watching to try to figure out what was going on, it became very clear this was NOT play. I have NEVER had an issue with agression in my goldfish and have never seen anything like this with them...it was relentless. And, it was wierd, after chasing him all over at high speeds non stop, when he caught up with the one being chased, he would wiggle his body all along side of him, kind rubbing up on him, and would push himslef on him to the point that the other poor fish would get pushed up against the side of the tank, or the plants, or anything that he tried to hide in to escape this. And it would not stop. I could tell that it would not stop until the fish being harassed was moved to another tank for the time being, thats how bad it was. Something about it - the obsessive nature of it, the frenzy the fish chasing the other was in, the way he rubbed up, ....made me think this was a breeding thing. I dont know anything about breeding goldfish or how they act when they do, but this made me think that breeding could be what this was. My fish are starting to get really big and its time to re-home them since my 30 gal wont be able to take it anymore. Not sure if you all remember, but I didnt know anything about goldfish really (I had a few when I was a kid), and was sold 5 for a 10 gal!!!! I know, its shocking to me STILL!! So I went out and bought the largest tank I could afford and also fit to give them a good home until they grew to big for what I have, and we are at that time I think. Since then, I have got really into the hobby, learned as much as I could - and still try to learn as much as I can everyday-, joined groups, and got another tank - so now I have 3 - 2 10 gals and 1 30 gals, and have got into other breeds that do better in 30 and under and are less dirty, anyways, I may keep one goldfish, it depends...thats another question! Anyways, what do you think was really going on here??? It was intense, and the poor fish was getting exhuasted, I have no idea how long it was going on before I stepped in...is this normal?? Breeding behavior maybe? Just a territorial fish (are goldfish even territorial??)? Thanks guys! Sorry so this was so loooong LOL Dr. Katie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 1:21:52 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a year, at most, it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of what is happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. More than likely, the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have been times when city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria will start converting the ammonia (usually associated with the ammonia part of chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is one of the reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our drinking water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of giuseppesalvato Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH Results from first baseline test on tap water: KH no reading PH 8.2 Ammonia 0.5 Nitrite 0 Nitrates 0 Next test will be posted in 24 hours Questions: - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their value is 0? I figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. - How about ammonia and KH? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You either need > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding something > to raise the pH > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion in the city > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then once the > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. Often, a utility > will add > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry issues by keeping > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming the pH will > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH (acidic) and soft > water. > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact them to get > your annual water report which would reveal what they are adding to > the water. > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to the fifth > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the condition you are > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour baseline. It would > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final results. > > To answer some of the other questions: > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result on both tap > water and tank water > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March 08) to > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 gallon tank > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the filter > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2-3 > times a week 20-30% each time > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > - I don't have a GH test > - I use tap water from public utility > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "goldlenny_blogspot" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of > your > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > hours > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the > rest > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us > > those numbers. > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are > you > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? > What > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "giuseppesalvato" > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 > neon > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 cory > > cats > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > Parameters are: > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrates 5 > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for the > > test > > > kit) > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow > > from > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon tanks > > with > > > PH 7.0. > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > capacity > > and > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > capacity > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 1:29:20 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34148	From: Crazycat Lady	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: a couple questions

I have two different questions about two different tanks.  Question 1:  what are the whitish wormy looking creatures (about 1/2 cm long) that stick on the side of the tank.  when taken out of the water (they got stuck on the gravel cleaner while cleaning the tank) they resemble worms 'reaching out' to find the water.  i did some research (on the net of course) and i think they may be planaria? 10 gallon with 2 african dwarf frogs, one tadpole, and a couple of baby crayfish.  the betta that was in the tank just died.  Question 2:  i was cleaning another of my tanks 20 gallon tall and while moving the decorations a 2 inch skinny segmented snake like creature with eyes appeared.  the tank has 4 tigerbarbs, 4 cherry barbs, 1 rainbow shark, 1 catfish in it right now.  a few live plants.  i have no idea what this thing is/was.  i imagine it came from the plants i guess but any ideas what is was?  i sucked him up while cleaning the gravel so he is no longer in the tank.  thank you, Leah (long time reader, first time poster) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34149	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through a Brita filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll search down the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading is right after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I don't add anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water and dechlorinate with tablets? I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration helps Raven any. Santa Baby! Put that big tank under my tree for me! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other surface areas of the tank. Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and frequent PWC's. Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the bottom most of the time. - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not quite 20ppm - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a 20G tank DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's definitely a 20G. - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34150	From: Walden Nida	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Q about quarintine tank

For a quarantine tank I would not worry about cycling it. I use a naked tank with a sponge filter. The gravel is one more thing you need to sterilize if there is a problem. Wally DFW, TX Home of the 2009 IBC Convention [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34151	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated carbon will not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does not remove nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A-carbon filter. I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and I would use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it simply isn't practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that you'll be changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my Betta tank was because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or 2G of water. 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to worry about treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for simplicity... but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a weekly basis. Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the world, I don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the goldfish tank. A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 or a $5.00 - 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 would last you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator will treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and changing 25% weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... probably much less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the Britta. The 16 oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water but it's harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the TopFin 8 oz. lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from whomever I'm ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for shipping than the product... at least not to me. You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without using the Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the future. Test it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will break the chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through a Brita filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll search down the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading is right after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I don't add anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water and dechlorinate with tablets? I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration helps Raven any. Santa Baby! Put that big tank under my tree for me! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other surface areas of the tank. Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and frequent PWC's. Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the bottom most of the time. - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not quite 20ppm - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a 20G tank DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's definitely a 20G. - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 4:10:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34152	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: a couple questions

Hi Leah and welcome to the group. Answer 1: The worms are likely planaria which are mostly nocturnal so they hide in your gravel during the day. If you see a few, you have hundreds. They are an indicator that you are not vacuuming your gravel well enough or deep enough so they are thriving on all of the excess detritus in your gravel. Start vacuuming the gravel good and you'll suck them up and their food source up and get rid of them. They are not harmful to your fish and actually help in a way by keeping a dirty tank a little cleaner. I have them in my cherry shrimp tank since it's so hard to vacuum my gravel in that tank due to having dozens of baby 1/4" shrimp running around. I need to get rid of some of my guppy grass and put in more planted plants to help with keeping the gravel cleaner. Until then, I rely on the planaria and snails. You better be careful with those baby crayfish... as they will soon grow into larger well-fed crayfish and you'll have nothing else in the tank... and then one of them will eat the other one. A 10G is too small for everything you have in the tank which is why you are having detritus issues in your gravel. I wouldn't have more than the two ADF's... and maybe the Betta if you got another one but the crawfish need their own 20G+ tank and what kind of tadpole? Is it a baby ADF? If yes, then don't get another Betta as three ADF's would be plenty enough bioload in a 10G. The only thing I'm concerned about is when you say "reaching out". I've never seen planaria really do that but there are critter like Hydra which will attach to a surface and then reach out with it's tentacles to try and grab small things to eat. See these pages for the various FW critters we get in our tanks.. starting with "worms" since you have them in both tanks... http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html Answer 2: Was it really snake-like or just a worm? Check out the above links. Many worms are segmented. You may also have overstocking issues with this tank. The "Rainbow Shark" http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Epalzeorhynchus_frenatus.html grows to 5"+ and it can be aggressive to similar fish so do NOT get any other fish that look like it. Read the profile link for more details. You need to give us more info on the "catfish" as catfish can range from small 1" Otocinclus affinis to 6 foot long monsters that can swallow a small child whole... and everything in between. The majority of "catfish" are BIG tank busters. I've seen them sold to unknowing buyers in the local pet stores. Hopefully you have one of the smaller species but the downside of the smaller species is that many of them need to be kept in shoals of five or more so their bioload can also become an issue in smaller tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Crazycat Lady Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] a couple questions I have two different questions about two different tanks. Question 1: what are the whitish wormy looking creatures (about 1/2 cm long) that stick on the side of the tank. when taken out of the water (they got stuck on the gravel cleaner while cleaning the tank) they resemble worms 'reaching out' to find the water. i did some research (on the net of course) and i think they may be planaria? 10 gallon with 2 african dwarf frogs, one tadpole, and a couple of baby crayfish. the betta that was in the tank just died. Question 2: i was cleaning another of my tanks 20 gallon tall and while moving the decorations a 2 inch skinny segmented snake like creature with eyes appeared. the tank has 4 tigerbarbs, 4 cherry barbs, 1 rainbow shark, 1 catfish in it right now. a few live plants. i have no idea what this thing is/was. i imagine it came from the plants i guess but any ideas what is was? i sucked him up while cleaning the gravel so he is no longer in the tank. thank you, Leah (long time reader, first time poster) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Messages in this topic <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/34148;_ylc=X3oDMTM2aW1sZD cyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzM0MT Q4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIyODc2ODMzMwR0cGNJZAMzNDE0OA--> (1) Reply (via web post) <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcml0MmR1BF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lk _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 4:32:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34153	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Platy Gestation Period? and an update on my tank

One of my platies (a blue one) surprised me with babies today! She was looking plump and "standing on her head" yesterday, but I didn't think she was pregnant, so I assumed perhaps she was constipated... My platies, both female, came home from the store three weeks ago yesterday. How long does it usually take between fertilization and birth? I have heard that platies can be inseminated well before they get pregnant...is that true? Meanwhile, my other platy - a red wagtail - remains in a sorry state. Those of you following my questions may recall that she had ich, responded to treatment, but collapsed when the heat went up and never perked up again. She does eat and swim, but after any exertion collapses on her side on the gravel, panting, and sits on the bottom most of the time. She clamps up so tight she resembles a carrot curl! She looks so thin. I almost hope she'll get some fry; perhaps it will be nourishing. The nitrogen cycle seems to be up and running: 0 nitrites and nitrates, 0.25 ppm ammonia before water change today. pH 8.0 - is that too high? temp 76-78 F They are in an 8-gallon Biocube (don't all jump on me at once; I don't intend to have more than a few fish in there). Thanks everyone!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34154	From: redbackblack	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Why do my goldfish float?

Yah, I know, bad question. But really, I have a couple of them who, it appears, after eating ... they just cant stay down. Is this some kind of bloat or swelling of the food? I've tried 3 different types of food. Flakes and Pellets. Same, moreso with the flakes. One of them is starting to get a white spot on his head from just giving up and floating - guess he is drying out? Sometimes to the point where they go belly up. Advice? Thanks, Kelly

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34155	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Agressive Goldfish???

In a message dated 12/8/2008 12:15:53 P.M. Central Standard Time, mom2angeldog@... writes: Hey Guys A few days ago I noticed that two of my goldfish (mainly 1, the other was more following the leader) were ganging up on another goldfish. As I was watching to try to figure out what was going on, it became very clear this was NOT play. I have NEVER had an issue with agression in my goldfish and have never seen anything like this with them...it was relentless. And, it was wierd, after chasing him all over at high speeds non stop, when he caught up with the one being chased, he would wiggle his body all along side of him, kind rubbing up on him, and would push himslef on him to the point that the other poor fish would get pushed up against the side of the tank, or the plants, or anything that he tried to hide in to escape this. And it would not stop. I could tell that it would not stop until the fish being harassed was moved to another tank for the time being, thats how bad it was. Something about it - the obsessive nature of it, the frenzy the fish chasing the other was in, the way he rubbed up, ....made me think this was a breeding thing. I dont know anything about breeding goldfish or how they act when they do, but this made me think that breeding could be what this was. My fish are starting to get really big and its time to re-home them since my 30 gal wont be able to take it anymore. Not sure if you all remember, but I didnt know anything about goldfish really (I had a few when I was a kid), and was sold 5 for a 10 gal!!!! I know, its shocking to me STILL!! So I went out and bought the largest tank I could afford and also fit to give them a good home until they grew to big for what I have, and we are at that time I think. Since then, I have got really into the hobby, learned as much as I could - and still try to learn as much as I can everyday-, joined groups, and got another tank - so now I have 3 - 2 10 gals and 1 30 gals, and have got into other breeds that do better in 30 and under and are less dirty, anyways, I may keep one goldfish, it depends...thats another question! Anyways, what do you think was really going on here??? It was intense, and the poor fish was getting exhuasted, I have no idea how long it was going on before I stepped in...is this normal?? Breeding behavior maybe? Just a territorial fish (are goldfish even territorial?terr Thanks guys! Sorry so this was so loooong LOL Dr. Katie Yes, that was mating behavior. The Harrassed was the female. Guess it's time for them to move on to a pond. In the meantime keep them separated, come spring, find a suitable pond for them and set them up. Enid **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34156	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?

Its a common thing with goldfish called swim bladder infection. This is easly prevented by feeding them peas at least once a week and making sure you aren't feeding from the surface. The easiest way I could explain it, correct me if I'm wrong, is they swallow too much air when they are eating from the surface. I just woke up so I will let Lenny or Steve or someone else give you treatment options my brains not quite functioning. If I can find my treatment book I will happily inform you. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "redbackblack" <kberry@...> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:58:07 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do my goldfish float? Yah, I know, bad question. But really, I have a couple of them who, it appears, after eating ... they just cant stay down. Is this some kind of bloat or swelling of the food? I've tried 3 different types of food. Flakes and Pellets. Same, moreso with the flakes. One of them is starting to get a white spot on his head from just giving up and floating - guess he is drying out? Sometimes to the point where they go belly up. Advice? Thanks, Kelly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?

Fancy goldfish or long-bodied common goldfish? First, check the ingredients on the foods. Many of the el-cheapo foods (Tetra, etc.) will start off with Fish Meal, Corn Flour, Wheat Flour, etc... while the Fish Meal could be good, since these are usually el-cheapo products, they probably have el-cheapo fish meal (dried up and ground up fish parts). Those three ingredients I just listed are the first three on what I thought was a decent product, Hagen's Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake Food (Hagen is a reputable company for most of their products). I still feed it on occasion as part of a balanced diet (maybe once a week or so) BUT I always soak the flakes in a spoonful of tank water first so they sink so the fish are not gulping air while trying to eat the floating flakes. My primary goldfish and tropical fish food is now Omega One brand. The first three ingredients on Omega One Goldfish Pellets... Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Even other quality brands like Hikari leave a lot to be desired. First three ingredients on Hikari Tropical Algae Wafers: Fish Meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat flour. So first, check your foods. If the ingredients are primarily flours and meals (not typical food items found in a pond or lake or stream, then look at getting a better quality food like Omega One or one of the other quality brands... there are many so check the ingredients. Omega One is not expensive and it's available at PetsMart (I happen to have a PetsMart a block from my subdivision so it's convenient for me). I also feed my goldfish veggies. I keep frozen green peas and zucchini slices in my freezer for the goldfish. I was also given a partial bag of frozen mixed vegetables and they ate them up too.. except for the diced carrots. Maybe the carrots need to be blanched more to soften them up more. Here's a page with a lot more info on feeding goldfish. http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html (page two goes into more specifics on feeding). Here's a thread all about floaty goldfish and solutions. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of redbackblack Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do my goldfish float? Yah, I know, bad question. But really, I have a couple of them who, it appears, after eating ... they just cant stay down. Is this some kind of bloat or swelling of the food? I've tried 3 different types of food. Flakes and Pellets. Same, moreso with the flakes. One of them is starting to get a white spot on his head from just giving up and floating - guess he is drying out? Sometimes to the point where they go belly up. Advice? Thanks, Kelly ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 5:11:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 5:36:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34158	From: Gregg Bender	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Issues with male Bettas

I have a bit of a mystery on my hands. Maybe someone with more Betta experience can tell me what I'm doing wrong. In recent years, I've had a very hard time keeping male Bettas healthy. Mine seem to die within a month (at most) of purchase. Where I buy them makes no difference. Set up size makes no difference. They die as quickly in my 55 gallon as in a fishbowl. My latest male Betta lasted about 10 days. As usual, this one died with no apparent disease symptoms. Tank conditions: Male Betta alone in 2 gallon tank with mild aeration. pH: 7.6. Temperature ~75F maintained with small heater. Ammonia: 0, Nitrates: 0 I understand that the pH is a bit high for a Betta, but the pH in this area is ridiculous. The temperatute is at the bottom of the normal range according to references. I'm conservative with the heater in such a small tank, becuase I'm concerned about a runaway heater turning my Betta tank into a fish boil. Any ideas, folks?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34159	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Q about quarantine tank

Since you never know when you will need the tank, and with a tank sitting there empty is more than a mild temptation <g>, keep it empty until needed, and a bubble up sponge filter running in one of your main tanks. When the tank is needed. When the tank is needed, have your spouse open the safe and hand you the key to the cabinet where the tank is stored, Give it a quick cleaning, and fill with water, adding gravel if you wish, then at the heater and the filter, and move the fish to be quarantined to it. This should not take more than a half hour or 45 minutes, unless your spouse is missing and you need to drill the safe <g>. With the working sponge filter, you should have enough of the nitrifying bacteria to instantly cycle the tank. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Diana Brooks > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:00 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Q about quarintine tank > > I am setting up a quarintine tank (10 gal) to have standing by for > random purchases and unexpected illnesses... assembled all equipment, > water, I put gravel from my "real" tank in and some ammonia... but > here's my question after I get it cycled... do I have to > keep "feeding" it ammonia as long as it is empty to keep the bacteria > alive so the tank will be ready, standing by when it is needed? > Diana > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34160	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Issues with male Bettas

Did your betta swell up like he was bloated? They can easily get constipation and if you feed them a squished pea (the inside of it) that can help them. A last resort is an epsalm salt bath, here's a link with info about constipation in bettas: http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php I lost a male betta to constipation recently and basically if you feed them high protein foods every day (or even more than once a day) they will most likely get constipated soon enough. You can help keep this from happening by giving them a day break where you don't feed them at all, helps clear out their system. I didn't see anything really wrong with your tank parameters for a betta, even the temp was fine. I keep my male betta in a 10 gallon with an african dwarf frog. The temp is usually around 76, and my pH is usually 6.1 Amber Gregg Bender wrote: > > I have a bit of a mystery on my hands. Maybe someone with more Betta > experience can tell me what I'm doing wrong. In recent years, I've > had a very hard time keeping male Bettas healthy. Mine seem to die > within a month (at most) of purchase. Where I buy them makes no > difference. Set up size makes no difference. They die as quickly in > my 55 gallon as in a fishbowl. > > My latest male Betta lasted about 10 days. As usual, this one died > with no apparent disease symptoms. > > Tank conditions: > > Male Betta alone in 2 gallon tank with mild aeration. > pH: 7.6. Temperature ~75F maintained with small heater. > Ammonia: 0, Nitrates: 0 > > I understand that the pH is a bit high for a Betta, but the pH in > this area is ridiculous. The temperatute is at the bottom of the > normal range according to references. I'm conservative with the > heater in such a small tank, becuase I'm concerned about a runaway > heater turning my Betta tank into a fish boil. > > Any ideas, folks? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34161	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Gestation Period? and an update on my tank

Gestation is about 28 days, the same as for guppies. This time will vary, dependent on temperature, by a few days one way or another. I think that food availability may also be a factor, but I have no proof of that one way or another. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > amsterbaum > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy Gestation Period? and an update on my tank > > One of my platies (a blue one) surprised me with babies today! She > was looking plump and "standing on her head" yesterday, but I didn't > think she was pregnant, so I assumed perhaps she was constipated... > > My platies, both female, came home from the store three weeks ago > yesterday. How long does it usually take between fertilization and > birth? I have heard that platies can be inseminated well before they > get pregnant...is that true? > > Meanwhile, my other platy - a red wagtail - remains in a sorry > state. Those of you following my questions may recall that she had > ich, responded to treatment, but collapsed when the heat went up and > never perked up again. She does eat and swim, but after any exertion > collapses on her side on the gravel, panting, and sits on the bottom > most of the time. She clamps up so tight she resembles a carrot > curl! She looks so thin. I almost hope she'll get some fry; perhaps > it will be nourishing. > > The nitrogen cycle seems to be up and running: > 0 nitrites and nitrates, 0.25 ppm ammonia before water change today. > pH 8.0 - is that too high? > temp 76-78 F > > They are in an 8-gallon Biocube (don't all jump on me at once; I > don't intend to have more than a few fish in there). > > Thanks everyone! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34162	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Issues with male Bettas

Aare the betas feeding? Do they look thin when you get them? If so, do they gain any weight at all? I was trying to get Lynne to ask you what "temperatute" means. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Gregg Bender > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with male Bettas > > I have a bit of a mystery on my hands. Maybe someone with more Betta > experience can tell me what I'm doing wrong. In recent years, I've > had a very hard time keeping male Bettas healthy. Mine seem to die > within a month (at most) of purchase. Where I buy them makes no > difference. Set up size makes no difference. They die as quickly in > my 55 gallon as in a fishbowl. > > My latest male Betta lasted about 10 days. As usual, this one died > with no apparent disease symptoms. > > Tank conditions: > > Male Betta alone in 2 gallon tank with mild aeration. > pH: 7.6. Temperature ~75F maintained with small heater. > Ammonia: 0, Nitrates: 0 > > I understand that the pH is a bit high for a Betta, but the pH in > this area is ridiculous. The temperatute is at the bottom of the > normal range according to references. I'm conservative with the > heater in such a small tank, becuase I'm concerned about a runaway > heater turning my Betta tank into a fish boil. > > Any ideas, folks? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34163	From: Nedra	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!

Thank you so much for your response Donna. I tell ya, I am still rinsing (3rd day) I must have rinsed this stuff 30 times already. I still can't get my water to run off clear. But when I leave it in the bucket with water overnight - the tiny particulates have settled by next day. So I'm thinking this is aa good as it gets. I don't know what a polyester pillow is. Is that a little enclosure you made or is it commercially available? I've used Eco Complete in a 55G and I love it! It's a jungle in that tank -- I have to constantly prune. But Eco complete is so darned expensive so when I saw this bag of Florite at a fish swap for $15, I decided to set up an old 20G long I had and see how it compares to the Eco Complete substrate. The one thing I hear on the aquatic plant forums is "rinse, rinse, rinse". But I'm thinking the point of Florite is the clay nutrients; and I'm pretty sure that's what I'm dissolving and washing away. Since the particulates settle overnight, do you think I can go ahead and put this in the 20G? I can cover it with regular gravel so it doesn't get stirred up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I think the package says "pre-washed, but may be rinsed". I only use > Flourite inside polyester pillows (I bury them under rocks). I rinse until > the water runs clear once, but without much stirring. This helps retain the > nutrients, and the polyester contains the "dirt" you aren't able to remove. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34164	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!

I’d put it in. I only rinse mine for 15 minutes or less. The pillows I make I bought polyester quilt batting for a crib quilt it’s very thin. I sew a pocket stuffed with substrate around my plant roots, and put it under a rock so the cichlids can’t dig it up. Then I use my normal substrate. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!! Thank you so much for your response Donna. I tell ya, I am still rinsing (3rd day) I must have rinsed this stuff 30 times already. I still can't get my water to run off clear. But when I leave it in the bucket with water overnight - the tiny particulates have settled by next day. So I'm thinking this is aa good as it gets. I don't know what a polyester pillow is. Is that a little enclosure you made or is it commercially available? I've used Eco Complete in a 55G and I love it! It's a jungle in that tank -- I have to constantly prune. But Eco complete is so darned expensive so when I saw this bag of Florite at a fish swap for $15, I decided to set up an old 20G long I had and see how it compares to the Eco Complete substrate. The one thing I hear on the aquatic plant forums is "rinse, rinse, rinse". But I'm thinking the point of Florite is the clay nutrients; and I'm pretty sure that's what I'm dissolving and washing away. Since the particulates settle overnight, do you think I can go ahead and put this in the 20G? I can cover it with regular gravel so it doesn't get stirred up. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I think the package says "pre-washed, but may be rinsed". I only use > Flourite inside polyester pillows (I bury them under rocks). I rinse until > the water runs clear once, but without much stirring. This helps retain the > nutrients, and the polyester contains the "dirt" you aren't able to remove. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34165	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Q about quarantine tank

I do actually keep a tank going all the time. It usually has fish in quarantine or hospital in it, but there are also times when I just keep some spare fish in there to keep it cycled. I have two other tanks that are in the cabinet and I just put a spare filter with used media on them as required. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q about quarantine tank Since you never know when you will need the tank, and with a tank sitting there empty is more than a mild temptation <g>, keep it empty until needed, and a bubble up sponge filter running in one of your main tanks. When the tank is needed. When the tank is needed, have your spouse open the safe and hand you the key to the cabinet where the tank is stored, Give it a quick cleaning, and fill with water, adding gravel if you wish, then at the heater and the filter, and move the fish to be quarantined to it. This should not take more than a half hour or 45 minutes, unless your spouse is missing and you need to drill the safe <g>. With the working sponge filter, you should have enough of the nitrifying bacteria to instantly cycle the tank. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Diana Brooks > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:00 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Q about quarintine tank > > I am setting up a quarintine tank (10 gal) to have standing by for > random purchases and unexpected illnesses... assembled all equipment, > water, I put gravel from my "real" tank in and some ammonia... but > here's my question after I get it cycled... do I have to > keep "feeding" it ammonia as long as it is empty to keep the bacteria > alive so the tank will be ready, standing by when it is needed? > Diana > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34166	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re:

Hey Lenny, I traded up from a cave in a valley to a cave on a hill. I did drag my knuckles and bloody them good when moving the tanks as I had not heard of "wheels" yet. I keep looking at the 70 tall and thinking "discus tank" but then reality sets in and I realize now is not the time. Maybe next year I will buy some wild discus and try and set up a South American tank. I did pick up a few kinds of rainbowfish over the weekend that I have not kept before. Put them in the 80 gallon Stainless steel tank. This was the tank I had set aside for Madagascar cichlids. Now I need to reshuffle fish around the fish room again. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 7:50 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Dang straight.. and it was a custom all Black paint job too... and I was the only buyer getting that color.. at least, that's what the salesman told me! And I walked to school, and the Model T dealership, through five miles of 3' deep snow in the middle of winter too! Oh yeah.. after all that, Hank and I are on a first name basis. Well, he's Hank to his friends... it's Mr. Ford to the rest of you! ;-) So... did you have to carry those tanks from your cave... oops, I meant your "old house"... in a rickshaw? ;-) Amber.... see what you started. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspo t.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? You did all that for a Model T? Wow Lenny, did Henry Ford send you an apology letter:) -Mike, who finally dragged home his 70 gallon Tall and 110 gallon Tanks from his old house! ed to fix the lemon at no charge. That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL Lenny Vasbinder -----Original Message----- From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 2:19 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be reporting that crappy part on every website you can find and wait to see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many years ago in front of the dealership and stood on the car picketing the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL0A Lenny Vasbinder --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't found it > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it could > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water will > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a spot > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the part > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is what > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > nothing to clamp onto :( > I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and waiting > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > Amber > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. Acrylic > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of=2 0acrylic tanks so it's safe > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > smelly any longer. > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the scre w > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the break > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the same > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles <alone29784@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is fine > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > Subject:=2 0[AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > break? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=2 0> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > on if they break? > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when trying to > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in the > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings for > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 Tested on: 12/7/2008 9:50:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34167	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2008
Subject: Re: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife]

Long arms. Deep tank. Good match Grog! No piranha with bloody knuckles. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Deenerz@... > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 11:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back > together if they break? > > Hey Lenny, > > I traded up from a cave in a valley to a cave on a hill. I did drag my knuckles and bloody them > good when moving the tanks as I had not heard of "wheels" yet. > > I keep looking at the 70 tall and thinking "discus tank" but then reality sets in and I realize > now is not the time. Maybe next year I will buy some wild discus and try and set up a South > American tank. > I did pick up a few kinds of rainbowfish over the weekend that I have not kept before. Put > them in the 80 gallon Stainless steel tank. This was the tank I had set aside for Madagascar > cichlids. Now I need to reshuffle fish around the fish room again. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 7:50 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > > > > > > Dang straight.. and it was a custom all Black paint job too... and I was the > only buyer getting that color.. at least, that's what the salesman told me! > > And I walked to school, and the Model T dealership, through five miles of 3' > deep snow in the middle of winter too! Oh yeah.. after all that, Hank and I > are on a first name basis. Well, he's Hank to his friends... it's Mr. Ford > to the rest of you! ;-) > > So... did you have to carry those tanks from your cave... oops, I meant your > "old house"... in a rickshaw? ;-) > > Amber.... see what you started. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspo > t.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they > break? > > You did all that for a Model T? > > Wow Lenny, did Henry Ford send you an apology letter:) > > -Mike, who finally dragged home his 70 gallon Tall and 110 gallon Tanks from > his old house! > > ed to fix the lemon at no charge. > > That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. > > I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > > -----Original Message----- > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 2:19 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often > > enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace > > it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be > > reporting that crappy part on every website you can find and wait to > > see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the > > first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets > > the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many > > years ago in front > of the dealership and stood on the car picketing > > the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. > > That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. > > I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL0A > > Lenny Vasbinder > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't > > found it > > > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it > > could > > > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > > > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water > > will > > > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a > > spot > > > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the > > part > > > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is > > what > > > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > > > nothing to clamp onto :( > > > I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and > > waiting > > > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. > > Acrylic > > > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of=2 > 0acrylic tanks so it's > > safe > > > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > > > smelly any longer. > > > > > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the > > scre > w > > > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the > > break > > > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the > > same > > > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles > > <alone29784@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is > > fine > > > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > > > Subject:=2 > 0[AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > > > break? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=2 > 0> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > > > on if they break? > > > > > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when > > trying to > > > > > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in > > the > > > > > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings > > for > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 > Tested on: 12/7/2008 9:50:07 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34168	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC yesterday) - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I can see bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look into an airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated carbon will not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does not remove nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A-carbon filter. I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and I would use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it simply isn't practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that you'll be changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my Betta tank was because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or 2G of water. 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to worry about treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for simplicity... but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a weekly basis. Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the world, I don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the goldfish tank. A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 or a $5.00 - 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 would last you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator will treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and changing 25% weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... probably much less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the Britta. The 16 oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water but it's harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the TopFin 8 oz. lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from whomever I'm ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for shipping than the product... at least not to me. You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without using the Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the future. Test it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will break the chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through a Brita filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll search down the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading is right after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I don't add anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water and dechlorinate with tablets? I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration helps Raven any. Santa Baby! Put that big tank under my tree for me! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other surface areas of the tank. Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and frequent PWC's. Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the bottom most of the time. - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not quite 20ppm - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a 20G tank DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's definitely a 20G. - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/8/2008 4:10:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34169	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the bigger tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a little (or raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough surface agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live plants are all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. Cooler water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will start to turn around soon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC yesterday) - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I can see bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look into an airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated carbon will not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does not remove nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A-carbon filter. I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and I would use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it simply isn't practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that you'll be changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my Betta tank was because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or 2G of water. 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to worry about treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for simplicity... but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a weekly basis. Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the world, I don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the goldfish tank. A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> or a $5.00 - 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> would last you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator will treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and changing 25% weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... probably much less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the Britta. The 16 oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water but it's harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the TopFin 8 oz. lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from whomever I'm ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for shipping than the product... at least not to me. You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without using the Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the future. Test it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will break the chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through a Brita filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll search down the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading is right after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I don't add anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water and dechlorinate with tablets? I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration helps Raven any. Santa Baby! Put that big tank under my tree for me! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other surface areas of the tank. Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and frequent PWC's. Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the bottom most of the time. - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not quite 20ppm - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a 20G tank DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's definitely a 20G. - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 5:34:19 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34170	From: Nimish Mathur	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!

When I used fluorite, I did not even rinse it. Laid it in the tank and filled it very slowly. Rinsing will only take away a lot of good that the plants could have used so I would suggest you stop rinsing. Dry the fluorite out and then add it to the empty tank and re-fill it. Nim From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: 09 December 2008 03:15 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!! Thank you so much for your response Donna. I tell ya, I am still rinsing (3rd day) I must have rinsed this stuff 30 times already. I still can't get my water to run off clear. But when I leave it in the bucket with water overnight - the tiny particulates have settled by next day. So I'm thinking this is aa good as it gets. I don't know what a polyester pillow is. Is that a little enclosure you made or is it commercially available? I've used Eco Complete in a 55G and I love it! It's a jungle in that tank -- I have to constantly prune. But Eco complete is so darned expensive so when I saw this bag of Florite at a fish swap for $15, I decided to set up an old 20G long I had and see how it compares to the Eco Complete substrate. The one thing I hear on the aquatic plant forums is "rinse, rinse, rinse". But I'm thinking the point of Florite is the clay nutrients; and I'm pretty sure that's what I'm dissolving and washing away. Since the particulates settle overnight, do you think I can go ahead and put this in the 20G? I can cover it with regular gravel so it doesn't get stirred up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I think the package says "pre-washed, but may be rinsed". I only use > Flourite inside polyester pillows (I bury them under rocks). I rinse until > the water runs clear once, but without much stirring. This helps retain the > nutrients, and the polyester contains the "dirt" you aren't able to remove. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34171	From: bill1433	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Power Filters---again!

Good Morning! � I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol�bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger.� The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn�t know anything about keeping fish!� Hey!� Give him a break������..he can�t cover all the bases! � However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol�bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want.� Now that opens some doors, to say the least. � As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall.� But I�m wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one?� In other words, are they worth the extra money?� The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point.� Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. � Your Thought�s Please? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34172	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re:

Hello, I met a fish keeper who built his own custom tanks and had wheel on his tank stands. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Long arms. Deep tank. Good match Grog! No piranha with bloody knuckles. > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > Deenerz@... > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 11:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back > > together if they break? > > > > Hey Lenny, > > > > I traded up from a cave in a valley to a cave on a hill. I did drag my knuckles and bloody them > > good when moving the tanks as I had not heard of "wheels" yet. > > > > I keep looking at the 70 tall and thinking "discus tank" but then reality sets in and I realize > > now is not the time. Maybe next year I will buy some wild discus and try and set up a South > > American tank. > > I did pick up a few kinds of rainbowfish over the weekend that I have not kept before. Put > > them in the 80 gallon Stainless steel tank. This was the tank I had set aside for Madagascar > > cichlids. Now I need to reshuffle fish around the fish room again. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 7:50 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dang straight.. and it was a custom all Black paint job too... and I was the > > only buyer getting that color.. at least, that's what the salesman told me! > > > > And I walked to school, and the Model T dealership, through five miles of 3' > > deep snow in the middle of winter too! Oh yeah.. after all that, Hank and I > > are on a first name basis. Well, he's Hank to his friends... it's Mr. Ford > > to the rest of you! ;-) > > > > So... did you have to carry those tanks from your cave... oops, I meant your > > "old house"... in a rickshaw? ;-) > > > > Amber.... see what you started. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspo > > t.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they > > break? > > > > You did all that for a Model T? > > > > Wow Lenny, did Henry Ford send you an apology letter:) > > > > -Mike, who finally dragged home his 70 gallon Tall and 110 gallon Tanks from > > his old house! > > > > ed to fix the lemon at no charge. > > > > That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. > > > > I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 2:19 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > > > Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often > > > > enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace > > > > it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be > > > > reporting that crappy part on every website you can find and wait to > > > > see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the > > > > first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets > > > > the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many > > > > years ago in front > > of the dealership and stood on the car picketing > > > > the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. > > > > That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. > > > > I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL0A > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > > Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't > > > > found it > > > > > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it > > > > could > > > > > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > > > > > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water > > > > will > > > > > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a > > > > spot > > > > > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the > > > > part > > > > > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is > > > > what > > > > > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > > > > > nothing to clamp onto :( > > > > > I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and > > > > waiting > > > > > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > > > > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > > > > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. > > > > Acrylic > > > > > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of=2 > > 0acrylic tanks so it's > > > > safe > > > > > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > > > > > smelly any longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the > > > > scre > > w > > > > > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the > > > > break > > > > > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > > > > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > > > > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > > > > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > > > > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > > > > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > > > > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > > > > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the > > > > same > > > > > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > > > > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles > > > > <alone29784@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is > > > > fine > > > > > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > > > > > Subject:=2 > > 0[AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > > > > > break? > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=2 > > 0> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > > > > > on if they break? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when > > > > trying to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings > > > > for > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 > > Tested on: 12/7/2008 9:50:07 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34173	From: Gregg	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Betta Issues

Hi Steve, Amber, There are no abnormal signs on the body at all. No bloating, no marks, no sign of fungal or bacterial infection. Even the color is good. The Betta looks fine other than being quite dead. (Sounds like the Monty Python "Dead Parrot" sketch.) I have fed them commercial Betta pellets and the occasional small krill and I have seen them eating. It used to be that Bettas were fairly easy for me to keep. It's just been in the last few years that I've had this problem. I'm starting to wonder if there are genetic problems in the commercial breeding programs, like there are for dogs and cats. -- Gregg Bender Director - Dogwood Sheltie Rescue www.vadsr.org "Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34174	From: redbackblack	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?

Ah ha! My apologies. I had no idea it was that common, and a quick search would have no doubt reavealed the answer. But thank you. Very helpful info. And yes, it is the fantail and the Moor who float, the shibunkin does not. I have a 46 gal that is heavily planted though, and they happily graze - are the veggies still needed? I soaked the pellets today, and it worked. But the pellets get in the filter intake tube grate. Grrr. What about algae tabs? I tossed one of those in a while back for the snails, and I thought the goldfish were sharks! Not sure if those are good for them? Thanks again, Kelly --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Fancy goldfish or long-bodied common goldfish? > > First, check the ingredients on the foods. Many of the el-cheapo foods > (Tetra, etc.) will start off with Fish Meal, Corn Flour, Wheat Flour, etc... > while the Fish Meal could be good, since these are usually el-cheapo > products, they probably have el-cheapo fish meal (dried up and ground up > fish parts). Those three ingredients I just listed are the first three on > what I thought was a decent product, Hagen's Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake > Food (Hagen is a reputable company for most of their products). I still > feed it on occasion as part of a balanced diet (maybe once a week or so) BUT > I always soak the flakes in a spoonful of tank water first so they sink so > the fish are not gulping air while trying to eat the floating flakes. > > My primary goldfish and tropical fish food is now Omega One brand. The > first three ingredients on Omega One Goldfish Pellets... Whole Salmon, Whole > Herring, Whole Shrimp... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Even other quality brands like > Hikari leave a lot to be desired. First three ingredients on Hikari > Tropical Algae Wafers: Fish Meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat flour. So > first, check your foods. If the ingredients are primarily flours and meals > (not typical food items found in a pond or lake or stream, then look at > getting a better quality food like Omega One or one of the other quality > brands... there are many so check the ingredients. Omega One is not > expensive and it's available at PetsMart (I happen to have a PetsMart a > block from my subdivision so it's convenient for me). > > I also feed my goldfish veggies. I keep frozen green peas and zucchini > slices in my freezer for the goldfish. I was also given a partial bag of > frozen mixed vegetables and they ate them up too.. except for the diced > carrots. Maybe the carrots need to be blanched more to soften them up more. > > > Here's a page with a lot more info on feeding goldfish. > http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html (page two goes into > more specifics on feeding). > > Here's a thread all about floaty goldfish and solutions. > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of redbackblack > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do my goldfish float? > > Yah, I know, bad question. But really, I have a couple of them who, it > appears, after eating ... they just cant stay down. Is this some kind of > bloat or swelling of the food? I've tried 3 different types of food. Flakes > and Pellets. Same, moreso with the flakes. One of them is starting to get a > white spot on his head from just giving up and floating - guess he is drying > out? Sometimes to the point where they go belly up. > > Advice? > Thanks, Kelly > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > Tested on: 12/8/2008 5:11:02 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > Tested on: 12/8/2008 5:36:22 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34175	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

Hi Bill!  How nice that Santy got your letter and is bringing you a tank and stand.  When I set up my 75G tank, after a looong hiatus, I went with a Marineland C-360 canister and put everything in action in late July of this year.  Well, finally, I could see a loss of quality in the water even though the tests were all fine, and last week we overcame our trepidations and broke the filter down for the first time in five months.  I expected major filth, gelatinous gobs of body parts and slime and a horrendous stench, but aside from some splashage (it was the first time after all)  there was NO odor and not that much dirt involved.  We had pulled the canister out and placed it in one of those long, low trays for underbed storage and we had inadvertently filled it with a couple of inches of unexpected, siphoned tank water, but that turned out fine, too, because we were able to swish off the various pouches in the filter's trays.  I  plopped the used carbon bags into the recently acquired 100G tank to facilitate cycling so that was handy, too.  You do have to be very careful to replace the various stages correctly or the canister will not close and seal and I wonder if this might be the cause of the leaking that has been mentioned regarding this particular filter.  Anyway, the water was back to crystal in a matter of hours and next time we won't be so intimidated by the process that we'll let it go so long before cleaning.  I absolutely would recommend a canister filter.  I just wish the 100G stand had an open back so we could use a canister there, too, but instead I have an AC 110 and another HOB on it, but will probably end up getting another 110. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@...> To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 4:32:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Good Morning! � I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol�bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger.� The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn�t know anything about keeping fish!� Hey!� Give him a break������..he can�t cover all the bases! � However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol�bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want.� Now that opens some doors, to say the least. � As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall.� But I�m wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one?� In other words, are they worth the extra money?� The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point.� Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. � Your Thought�s Please? � Bill        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

If rear space is your primary issue, remember that an HOB does not have to be on the back. It can be on one of the sides. Would that make it an HOS? (Seems appropriate since it's Christmas time.. HO, HO, HO = HO'S ;-)) I've also seen the acronym HOT (Hang On Tank) used but HOB is the most common acronym for hang on back power filters. Of course, hanging it on the side presents issues if you were planning on using a standard (non-custom) cover or hood and lighting. If it's only a 29G, I think I'd go with an AquaClear since even a Rena Filstar XP-1 would be a lot of filtration for a 29G tank. An XP-1 is rated for 250 gallons per hour http://www.rena.net/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=346 so unless you are going with fish that like a LOT of water movement... like fish that come from a fast flowing stream... then an appropriate sized HOB would be better. I am not familiar with a canister filter that would be small enough for a 29G tank but there is a way to throttle back the water flow on the XP-1 with one of the attachments that came with it... at least I seem to remember that attachment being an option. I did not install that option when hooking up either of my XP's and the original boxes/parts have been in storage since my move after Hurricane Katrina. You'll see a part called an "Outflow Regulator" listed on this page so I'm guessing that is what was included in the original packaging. http://www.planetrena.com/Filstar-Rena-Parts.html Since behind the tank space is one of your concerns, the plumbing for the Rena could also be inserted into the tank from the sides so the 1" diameter plastic parts that go over the top of the tank frame could go into the tank on one end or one tube on each end... which ever suits your aesthetics and filtration preferences. Of course, if you have baseboards on your walls, the stand would probably be at least 3/4" to 1" away from the actual wall anyhow so the 1" tubes and plastic parts would easily fit behind the tank also. See if you can elicit more info from the Elves (maybe a cookies and milk bribe) about exactly what size tank Santa is bringing.... but then, that might ruin the surprise so maybe this bribe isn't a good thing... and make sure the Elf isn't named Blagojevich or Edwards as the F.B.I. might be listening. It seems Illinois is trying to compete with my beloved Louisiana for the most crooked Governor award (turn on Fox News if you don't know what this means). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Good Morning! I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol'bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger. The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn't know anything about keeping fish! Hey! Give him a break........he can't cover all the bases! However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol'bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want. Now that opens some doors, to say the least. As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall. But I'm wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one? In other words, are they worth the extra money? The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point. Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. Your Thought's Please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 11:47:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34177	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

Aqua clears are great for that size tank. I use them for all my smaller tanks and they do a wonderful job. I won't use anything else. In the long run it tends to save money for me anyways I don't know what prices you have but here its 2.99 and 3.99 for the 3 pack sponge and carbon. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:47:48 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! If rear space is your primary issue, remember that an HOB does not have to be on the back. It can be on one of the sides. Would that make it an HOS? (Seems appropriate since it's Christmas time.. HO, HO, HO = HO'S ;-)) I've also seen the acronym HOT (Hang On Tank) used but HOB is the most common acronym for hang on back power filters. Of course, hanging it on the side presents issues if you were planning on using a standard (non-custom) cover or hood and lighting. If it's only a 29G, I think I'd go with an AquaClear since even a Rena Filstar XP-1 would be a lot of filtration for a 29G tank. An XP-1 is rated for 250 gallons per hour http://www.rena.net/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=346 so unless you are going with fish that like a LOT of water movement... like fish that come from a fast flowing stream... then an appropriate sized HOB would be better. I am not familiar with a canister filter that would be small enough for a 29G tank but there is a way to throttle back the water flow on the XP-1 with one of the attachments that came with it... at least I seem to remember that attachment being an option. I did not install that option when hooking up either of my XP's and the original boxes/parts have been in storage since my move after Hurricane Katrina. You'll see a part called an "Outflow Regulator" listed on this page so I'm guessing that is what was included in the original packaging. http://www.planetrena.com/Filstar-Rena-Parts.html Since behind the tank space is one of your concerns, the plumbing for the Rena could also be inserted into the tank from the sides so the 1" diameter plastic parts that go over the top of the tank frame could go into the tank on one end or one tube on each end... which ever suits your aesthetics and filtration preferences. Of course, if you have baseboards on your walls, the stand would probably be at least 3/4" to 1" away from the actual wall anyhow so the 1" tubes and plastic parts would easily fit behind the tank also. See if you can elicit more info from the Elves (maybe a cookies and milk bribe) about exactly what size tank Santa is bringing.... but then, that might ruin the surprise so maybe this bribe isn't a good thing... and make sure the Elf isn't named Blagojevich or Edwards as the F.B.I. might be listening. It seems Illinois is trying to compete with my beloved Louisiana for the most crooked Governor award (turn on Fox News if you don't know what this means). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Good Morning! I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol'bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger. The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn't know anything about keeping fish! Hey! Give him a break........he can't cover all the bases! However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol'bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want. Now that opens some doors, to say the least. As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall. But I'm wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one? In other words, are they worth the extra money? The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point. Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. Your Thought's Please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 11:47:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34178	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?

The green peas are a natural laxative for most freshwater fish so feeding them pea "meat" (pinch the skin to release the two halves... what I call the "meat" of the pea) is a good thing. Feed them the peas only for a couple of days to clean them out good and see if that resolves the floaty issue... and the fish love them (even more than your little brother loved them chocolate exlax bars. LOL) If it does, then you know it's more related to digestive bloating that could be causing gas issues in the digestive system or non-gas bloating could be compressing the lines leading to the swim bladder so the fish is not able to regulate the swim bladder properly. Feeding a better diet would likely solve this type of issue. Usually, floating upside down is gas in the digestive system. Floating in any other manner (head up, tail up or just stuck at the surface) usually indicates issues with regulating the swim bladder. These issues, if directly affected by feeding times, would be likely affected by digestive bloating compressing the swim bladder control lines. If it's happening all of the time and not just after feeding, then it could be a bacterial infection affecting the swim bladder or other organs which then swell up and compress the swim bladder or the control lines. You could turn off the filter for a few minutes during feeding times or if you get the Omega One goldfish pellets, they sink to the bottom so that is not an issue. As far as the algae tabs, it depends on what is in them. I listed the first three ingredients on the Hikari Algae Wafers that I have and none of them are algae related.. although one was alfalfa which for me is probably worse than eating algae. Ewww.. I hate alfalfa. LOL Here is the ingredients for Omega One Veggie Rounds.. which I'll be buying when I run out of the Hikari's... http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html INGREDIENTS: Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Halibut, Seafood Mix (Including Krill, Whole Herring, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten,... Yes, those darned Wheat Flour and Gluten ingredients show up in the ingredients list since most of these products need something as a base to hold them together but you see where it's not until the sixth and seventh ingredients rather than the primary first few ingredients like on most of the el-cheapo foods. You can keep feeding the fish your current foods but you might also want to get a better food to feed them so you only have to feed them the current foods as part of their diet rather than their primary diet, until you run out of their current foods and can then choose only better foods for them all of the time in the future. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of redbackblack Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? Ah ha! My apologies. I had no idea it was that common, and a quick search would have no doubt reavealed the answer. But thank you. Very helpful info. And yes, it is the fantail and the Moor who float, the shibunkin does not. I have a 46 gal that is heavily planted though, and they happily graze - are the veggies still needed? I soaked the pellets today, and it worked. But the pellets get in the filter intake tube grate. Grrr. What about algae tabs? I tossed one of those in a while back for the snails, and I thought the goldfish were sharks! Not sure if those are good for them? Thanks again, Kelly --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Fancy goldfish or long-bodied common goldfish? > > First, check the ingredients on the foods. Many of the el-cheapo foods > (Tetra, etc.) will start off with Fish Meal, Corn Flour, Wheat Flour, etc... > while the Fish Meal could be good, since these are usually el-cheapo > products, they probably have el-cheapo fish meal (dried up and ground up > fish parts). Those three ingredients I just listed are the first three on > what I thought was a decent product, Hagen's Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake > Food (Hagen is a reputable company for most of their products). I still > feed it on occasion as part of a balanced diet (maybe once a week or so) BUT > I always soak the flakes in a spoonful of tank water first so they sink so > the fish are not gulping air while trying to eat the floating flakes. > > My primary goldfish and tropical fish food is now Omega One brand. The > first three ingredients on Omega One Goldfish Pellets... Whole Salmon, Whole > Herring, Whole Shrimp... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Even other quality brands like > Hikari leave a lot to be desired. First three ingredients on Hikari > Tropical Algae Wafers: Fish Meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat flour. So > first, check your foods. If the ingredients are primarily flours and meals > (not typical food items found in a pond or lake or stream, then look at > getting a better quality food like Omega One or one of the other quality > brands... there are many so check the ingredients. Omega One is not > expensive and it's available at PetsMart (I happen to have a PetsMart a > block from my subdivision so it's convenient for me). > > I also feed my goldfish veggies. I keep frozen green peas and zucchini > slices in my freezer for the goldfish. I was also given a partial bag of > frozen mixed vegetables and they ate them up too.. except for the diced > carrots. Maybe the carrots need to be blanched more to soften them up more. > > > Here's a page with a lot more info on feeding goldfish. > http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> (page two goes into > more specifics on feeding). > > Here's a thread all about floaty goldfish and solutions. > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of redbackblack > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do my goldfish float? > > Yah, I know, bad question. But really, I have a couple of them who, it > appears, after eating ... they just cant stay down. Is this some kind of > bloat or swelling of the food? I've tried 3 different types of food. Flakes > and Pellets. Same, moreso with the flakes. One of them is starting to get a > white spot on his head from just giving up and floating - guess he is drying > out? Sometimes to the point where they go belly up. > > Advice? > Thanks, Kelly _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 12:10:41 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34179	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

WOW... five months of no filter cleaning is a MAJOR NO NO. Filters need to be maintained every week or so... maybe two week max. The reason you didn't have much detritus in the filter is that after a certain amount of time, the detritus will break down and go into solution in the water, called DOC's (dissolved organic compounds). It seems that after a few weeks, your filter should have started to clog up and you should have noticed a major drop in water circulation. If you didn't, then the filter isn't doing a very good job, IMO. I think my friend Bill from the Ponds-Koi group said it best... FILTRATION: HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't doing its job and working to get the junk out of the water. Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take organics out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = rocks = really aren't a problem.) If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but also not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the water in solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. SO, the object of a good pond keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = clean the organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other day, every third day....... Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? Why not the fishes' also. :-) Bill Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Hi Bill! How nice that Santy got your letter and is bringing you a tank and stand. When I set up my 75G tank, after a looong hiatus, I went with a Marineland C-360 canister and put everything in action in late July of this year. Well, finally, I could see a loss of quality in the water even though the tests were all fine, and last week we overcame our trepidations and broke the filter down for the first time in five months. I expected major filth, gelatinous gobs of body parts and slime and a horrendous stench, but aside from some splashage (it was the first time after all) there was NO odor and not that much dirt involved. We had pulled the canister out and placed it in one of those long, low trays for underbed storage and we had inadvertently filled it with a couple of inches of unexpected, siphoned tank water, but that turned out fine, too, because we were able to swish off the various pouches in the filter's trays. I plopped the used carbon bags into the recently acquired 100G tank to facilitate cycling so that was handy, too. You do have to be very careful to replace the various stages correctly or the canister will not close and seal and I wonder if this might be the cause of the leaking that has been mentioned regarding this particular filter. Anyway, the water was back to crystal in a matter of hours and next time we won't be so intimidated by the process that we'll let it go so long before cleaning. I absolutely would recommend a canister filter. I just wish the 100G stand had an open back so we could use a canister there, too, but instead I have an AC 110 and another HOB on it, but will probably end up getting another 110. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 4:32:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Good Morning! I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger. The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn t know anything about keeping fish! Hey! Give him a break ..he can t cover all the bases! However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want. Now that opens some doors, to say the least. As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall. But I m wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one? In other words, are they worth the extra money? The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point. Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. Your Thought s Please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 12:19:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34180	From: bill1433	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

Hi Len,   The reason why I was leaning on the Rena was this device:   http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18444   I have never seen anything like it but in occurred to me that it would allow for a better view inside the tank without all the extra plumbling?   Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 12:47 PM If rear space is your primary issue, remember that an HOB does not have to be on the back. It can be on one of the sides. Would that make it an HOS? (Seems appropriate since it's Christmas time.. HO, HO, HO = HO'S ;-)) I've also seen the acronym HOT (Hang On Tank) used but HOB is the most common acronym for hang on back power filters. Of course, hanging it on the side presents issues if you were planning on using a standard (non-custom) cover or hood and lighting. If it's only a 29G, I think I'd go with an AquaClear since even a Rena Filstar XP-1 would be a lot of filtration for a 29G tank. An XP-1 is rated for 250 gallons per hour http://www.rena. net/Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 346 so unless you are going with fish that like a LOT of water movement... like fish that come from a fast flowing stream... then an appropriate sized HOB would be better.. I am not familiar with a canister filter that would be small enough for a 29G tank but there is a way to throttle back the water flow on the XP-1 with one of the attachments that came with it... at least I seem to remember that attachment being an option. I did not install that option when hooking up either of my XP's and the original boxes/parts have been in storage since my move after Hurricane Katrina. You'll see a part called an "Outflow Regulator" listed on this page so I'm guessing that is what was included in the original packaging. http://www.planetre na.com/Filstar- Rena-Parts. html Since behind the tank space is one of your concerns, the plumbing for the Rena could also be inserted into the tank from the sides so the 1" diameter plastic parts that go over the top of the tank frame could go into the tank on one end or one tube on each end... which ever suits your aesthetics and filtration preferences. Of course, if you have baseboards on your walls, the stand would probably be at least 3/4" to 1" away from the actual wall anyhow so the 1" tubes and plastic parts would easily fit behind the tank also. See if you can elicit more info from the Elves (maybe a cookies and milk bribe) about exactly what size tank Santa is bringing.... but then, that might ruin the surprise so maybe this bribe isn't a good thing... and make sure the Elf isn't named Blagojevich or Edwards as the F.B.I. might be listening. It seems Illinois is trying to compete with my beloved Louisiana for the most crooked Governor award (turn on Fox News if you don't know what this means). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Good Morning! I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol'bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger. The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn't know anything about keeping fish! Hey! Give him a break....... .he can't cover all the bases! However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol'bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want. Now that opens some doors, to say the least. As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall. But I'm wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one? In other words, are they worth the extra money? The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point. Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. Your Thought's Please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 11:47:48 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34181	From: jjmiltner	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: window film

Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good idea? Jennie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34182	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: window film

Is your aquarium in a room that's not room temperature? or do you keep your house temps low? I can't see needing to insulate your aquarium unless you have it in a cold room where the heater would have to work harder to keep it at a higher temp. If you don't use a heater and keep it in a room that's in the 70's then perhaps insulating it may help a little so that the heat doesn't flucuate as much when the room temps drop. But if you're using a heater and the tank is indoors then insulation may not help a whole lot, but I could be wrong, I'm not an expert on insulation LOL. Amber jjmiltner wrote: > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it > on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I > was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a > good idea? > > Jennie > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34183	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Issues

Is it possible that your water company changed your water parameters somehow? Maybe there are more heavy metals or something that your water conditioner during PWC's isn't getting it out of the water? Just a thought... I'd try checking with your local water company to see if they changed the water in the recent years. Amber Gregg wrote: > > Hi Steve, Amber, > > There are no abnormal signs on the body at all. No bloating, no marks, no > sign of fungal or bacterial infection. Even the color is good. The Betta > looks fine other than being quite dead. (Sounds like the Monty Python > "Dead > Parrot" sketch.) I have fed them commercial Betta pellets and the > occasional > small krill and I have seen them eating. > > It used to be that Bettas were fairly easy for me to keep. It's just > been in > the last few years that I've had this problem. I'm starting to wonder if > there are genetic problems in the commercial breeding programs, like there > are for dogs and cats. > > -- > Gregg Bender > Director - Dogwood Sheltie Rescue > www.vadsr.org > > "Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well > being of > a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small > compared to > the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." > Martin Luther King Jr. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34184	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

Hey that's pretty nifty there Bill, never saw that before. I have never owned a rena filstar myself, but I watched them take apart the one at the LFS and it seems pretty user friendly for cleaning. I also must say that canister filters definitely take up less space than a HOB filter and cutting out holes in hoods takes less time since they are smaller holes ;) They do put out a lot more current than the HOB's (usually at least, depending on the HOB model), and it would most likely put out more current than an aquaclear would. Now that I have gotten the hang of my magnum 350 (deluxe with no bio-wheel) it's not such a pain to clean, but you have to remember little things if you don't want a huge mess of tank water on your floor ;) such as turning off ALL the hoses, not just one side, LOL (they have 2 valves for shutoff on each side of the connection on the hoses, I would have preferred it if they had put the connection/disconnection spot on the top of the canister like the filstar's/eheim's though, easier access especially if the canister is going to be behind the tank rather than on the side). I actually moved my magnum to the side of all my tanks instead of the back because it's much easier to get to the connections for cleaning. So basically my answer is that if you're going with a canister get one that you disconnect at the canister rather than on the hoses (if you're going to put the canister intake/outake on the back of the tank instead of on one end), and also I would almost recommend putting it on one end of the tank instead of the back as it makes the current flow down the tank rather than forward and then to each side (when it hits the front glass) so it makes a more "river or stream" current for the fish. My danio's and guppies both like current in their tank so the canister filter is great for them. Amber bill1433 wrote: > > Hi Len, > > The reason why I was leaning on the Rena was this device: > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18444 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18444> > > I have never seen anything like it but in occurred to me that it would > allow for a better view inside the tank without all the extra plumbling? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 12:47 PM > > If rear space is your primary issue, remember that an HOB does not have to > be on the back. It can be on one of the sides. Would that make it an HOS? > (Seems appropriate since it's Christmas time.. HO, HO, HO = HO'S ;-)) I've > also seen the acronym HOT (Hang On Tank) used but HOB is the most common > acronym for hang on back power filters. Of course, hanging it on the side > presents issues if you were planning on using a standard (non-custom) > cover > or hood and lighting. > > If it's only a 29G, I think I'd go with an AquaClear since even a Rena > Filstar XP-1 would be a lot of filtration for a 29G tank. An XP-1 is rated > for 250 gallons per hour > http://www.rena. net/Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 346 so unless > you are > going with fish that like a LOT of water movement... like fish that come > from a fast flowing stream... then an appropriate sized HOB would be > better.. > I am not familiar with a canister filter that would be small enough for a > 29G tank but there is a way to throttle back the water flow on the > XP-1 with > one of the attachments that came with it... at least I seem to > remember that > attachment being an option. I did not install that option when hooking up > either of my XP's and the original boxes/parts have been in storage > since my > move after Hurricane Katrina. You'll see a part called an "Outflow > Regulator" listed on this page so I'm guessing that is what was > included in > the original packaging. http://www.planetre na.com/Filstar- > Rena-Parts. html > Since behind the tank space is one of your concerns, the plumbing for the > Rena could also be inserted into the tank from the sides so the 1" > diameter > plastic parts that go over the top of the tank frame could go into the > tank > on one end or one tube on each end... which ever suits your aesthetics and > filtration preferences. Of course, if you have baseboards on your walls, > the stand would probably be at least 3/4" to 1" away from the actual wall > anyhow so the 1" tubes and plastic parts would easily fit behind the tank > also. > > See if you can elicit more info from the Elves (maybe a cookies and milk > bribe) about exactly what size tank Santa is bringing.... but then, that > might ruin the surprise so maybe this bribe isn't a good thing... and make > sure the Elf isn't named Blagojevich or Edwards as the F.B.I. might be > listening. It seems Illinois is trying to compete with my beloved > Louisiana > for the most crooked Governor award (turn on Fox News if you don't > know what > this means). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:33 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! > > Good Morning! > > I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. > It appears ol'bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of > a new > tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger. The tank will come > with > a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn't know anything > about keeping fish! Hey! Give him a break....... .he can't cover all the > bases! > > However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket > expense to > ol'bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of > filter I > want. Now that opens some doors, to say the least. > > As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a > canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me > closer to the rear wall. But I'm wondering from my readings here on the > Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving > grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one? In other words, > are they worth the extra money? The HOB, in contention here would be the > Aqua Clear, no debating on that point. Before anyone would ask, No, I will > not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. > > Your Thought's Please? > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > Tested on: 12/9/2008 11:47:48 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34185	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?

Not sure about goldfish, but if you don't feed your fish a lot (like 2-3 times a day, maybe try only once a day) and see if they clean off the filter intake themselves. My fish will clean up my tank pretty well if I don't overfeed and stick to one or maybe 2 meals a day for them. Also it's normal for most fish to be attracted to sinking food reguardless of what it is, but most fish food is safe for other fish to eat (in moderation) even if it's not their "normal" food. Besides I'm sure they like variety, I'd hate to eat the same thing every day myself ;) LOL. Amber redbackblack wrote: > > Ah ha! My apologies. I had no idea it was that common, and a quick > search would have no doubt reavealed the answer. But thank you. > Very helpful info. > > And yes, it is the fantail and the Moor who float, the shibunkin does > not. I have a 46 gal that is heavily planted though, and they > happily graze - are the veggies still needed? > > I soaked the pellets today, and it worked. But the pellets get in > the filter intake tube grate. Grrr. > > What about algae tabs? I tossed one of those in a while back for the > snails, and I thought the goldfish were sharks! Not sure if those > are good for them? > > Thanks again, > Kelly > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Fancy goldfish or long-bodied common goldfish? > > > > First, check the ingredients on the foods. Many of the el-cheapo > foods > > (Tetra, etc.) will start off with Fish Meal, Corn Flour, Wheat > Flour, etc... > > while the Fish Meal could be good, since these are usually el-cheapo > > products, they probably have el-cheapo fish meal (dried up and > ground up > > fish parts). Those three ingredients I just listed are the first > three on > > what I thought was a decent product, Hagen's Nutrafin Max Goldfish > Flake > > Food (Hagen is a reputable company for most of their products). I > still > > feed it on occasion as part of a balanced diet (maybe once a week > or so) BUT > > I always soak the flakes in a spoonful of tank water first so they > sink so > > the fish are not gulping air while trying to eat the floating > flakes. > > > > My primary goldfish and tropical fish food is now Omega One brand. > The > > first three ingredients on Omega One Goldfish Pellets... Whole > Salmon, Whole > > Herring, Whole Shrimp... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Even other quality > brands like > > Hikari leave a lot to be desired. First three ingredients on Hikari > > Tropical Algae Wafers: Fish Meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat > flour. So > > first, check your foods. If the ingredients are primarily flours > and meals > > (not typical food items found in a pond or lake or stream, then > look at > > getting a better quality food like Omega One or one of the other > quality > > brands... there are many so check the ingredients. Omega One is not > > expensive and it's available at PetsMart (I happen to have a > PetsMart a > > block from my subdivision so it's convenient for me). > > > > I also feed my goldfish veggies. I keep frozen green peas and > zucchini > > slices in my freezer for the goldfish. I was also given a partial > bag of > > frozen mixed vegetables and they ate them up too.. except for the > diced > > carrots. Maybe the carrots need to be blanched more to soften them > up more. > > > > > > Here's a page with a lot more info on feeding goldfish. > > http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> (page two > goes into > > more specifics on feeding). > > > > Here's a thread all about floaty goldfish and solutions. > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of redbackblack > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do my goldfish float? > > > > Yah, I know, bad question. But really, I have a couple of them who, > it > > appears, after eating ... they just cant stay down. Is this some > kind of > > bloat or swelling of the food? I've tried 3 different types of > food. Flakes > > and Pellets. Same, moreso with the flakes. One of them is starting > to get a > > white spot on his head from just giving up and floating - guess he > is drying > > out? Sometimes to the point where they go belly up. > > > > Advice? > > Thanks, Kelly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Inbound message clean. > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > > Tested on: 12/8/2008 5:11:02 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > > Tested on: 12/8/2008 5:36:22 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34186	From: Dreamsteeds	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

Maybe because I have lots of live plants and not a large population of fish, the situation in the filter wasn't too disastrous.  I certainly am not advocating ignoring your filter for five months, just relating what happened in my instance.  Even though the filter had run all that time, there was no smell, little dirt and the water parameters remained good.  I absolutely will not wait that long in the future, however.  Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 10:19:27 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! WOW... five months of no filter cleaning is a MAJOR NO NO. Filters need to be maintained every week or so... maybe two week max. The reason you didn't have much detritus in the filter is that after a certain amount of time, the detritus will break down and go into solution in the water, called DOC's (dissolved organic compounds). It seems that after a few weeks, your filter should have started to clog up and you should have noticed a major drop in water circulation. If you didn't, then the filter isn't doing a very good job, IMO. I think my friend Bill from the Ponds-Koi group said it best... FILTRATION: HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't doing its job and working to get the junk out of the water. Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take organics out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = rocks = really aren't a problem.) If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but also not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the water in solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. SO, the object of a good pond keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = clean the organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other day, every third day....... Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? Why not the fishes' also. :-) Bill Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dreamsteeds Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Hi Bill! How nice that Santy got your letter and is bringing you a tank and stand. When I set up my 75G tank, after a looong hiatus, I went with a Marineland C-360 canister and put everything in action in late July of this year. Well, finally, I could see a loss of quality in the water even though the tests were all fine, and last week we overcame our trepidations and broke the filter down for the first time in five months. I expected major filth, gelatinous gobs of body parts and slime and a horrendous stench, but aside from some splashage (it was the first time after all) there was NO odor and not that much dirt involved. We had pulled the canister out and placed it in one of those long, low trays for underbed storage and we had inadvertently filled it with a couple of inches of unexpected, siphoned tank water, but that turned out fine, too, because we were able to swish off the various pouches in the filter's trays. I plopped the used carbon bags into the recently acquired 100G tank to facilitate cycling so that was handy, too. You do have to be very careful to replace the various stages correctly or the canister will not close and seal and I wonder if this might be the cause of the leaking that has been mentioned regarding this particular filter. Anyway, the water was back to crystal in a matter of hours and next time we won't be so intimidated by the process that we'll let it go so long before cleaning. I absolutely would recommend a canister filter. I just wish the 100G stand had an open back so we could use a canister there, too, but instead I have an AC 110 and another HOB on it, but will probably end up getting another 110. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill1433" < warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > To: "AquaticLife" < AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 4:32:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Good Morning! I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger. The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn t know anything about keeping fish! Hey! Give him a break ..he can t cover all the bases! However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want. Now that opens some doors, to say the least. As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall. But I m wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one? In other words, are they worth the extra money? The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point. Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. Your Thought s Please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus < http://www.avast.com > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 12:19:27 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34187	From: redbackblack	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?

Thank you Lenny, peas it is. Yes, the algae tabs are the Hikari ones. Are those ok? The first flakes I had were 'Top Fin' - no doubt an el cheapo. Fish meal, ground brown rice, wheat germ meal, feeding oat meal, shrimp meal..... The next flakes and pellets were Wardleys. I got that because that was what I always used in my outdoor pond, and liked it. Pellets: Dehulled soybean meal, ground wheat, fish meal, corn gluten meal, wheat middlings.... Flakes: Fish meal, wheat flour, rice flour, corn gluten meal, wheat germ meal, fish oil.... Hmmm, probably should get a better food. That Omega sounds very nice. Kelly --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The green peas are a natural laxative for most freshwater fish so feeding > them pea "meat" (pinch the skin to release the two halves... what I call the > "meat" of the pea) is a good thing. Feed them the peas only for a couple of > days to clean them out good and see if that resolves the floaty issue... and > the fish love them (even more than your little brother loved them chocolate > exlax bars. LOL) > > If it does, then you know it's more related to digestive bloating that could > be causing gas issues in the digestive system or non-gas bloating could be > compressing the lines leading to the swim bladder so the fish is not able to > regulate the swim bladder properly. Feeding a better diet would likely > solve this type of issue. > > Usually, floating upside down is gas in the digestive system. Floating in > any other manner (head up, tail up or just stuck at the surface) usually > indicates issues with regulating the swim bladder. These issues, if > directly affected by feeding times, would be likely affected by digestive > bloating compressing the swim bladder control lines. If it's happening all > of the time and not just after feeding, then it could be a bacterial > infection affecting the swim bladder or other organs which then swell up and > compress the swim bladder or the control lines. > > You could turn off the filter for a few minutes during feeding times or if > you get the Omega One goldfish pellets, they sink to the bottom so that is > not an issue. > > As far as the algae tabs, it depends on what is in them. I listed the first > three ingredients on the Hikari Algae Wafers that I have and none of them > are algae related.. although one was alfalfa which for me is probably worse > than eating algae. Ewww.. I hate alfalfa. LOL > > Here is the ingredients for Omega One Veggie Rounds.. which I'll be buying > when I run out of the Hikari's... > http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html > INGREDIENTS: Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Halibut, Seafood Mix > (Including Krill, Whole Herring, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten,... > > Yes, those darned Wheat Flour and Gluten ingredients show up in the > ingredients list since most of these products need something as a base to > hold them together but you see where it's not until the sixth and seventh > ingredients rather than the primary first few ingredients like on most of > the el-cheapo foods. > > You can keep feeding the fish your current foods but you might also want to > get a better food to feed them so you only have to feed them the current > foods as part of their diet rather than their primary diet, until you run > out of their current foods and can then choose only better foods for them > all of the time in the future. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of redbackblack > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? > > Ah ha! My apologies. I had no idea it was that common, and a quick search > would have no doubt reavealed the answer. But thank you. > Very helpful info. > > And yes, it is the fantail and the Moor who float, the shibunkin does not. I > have a 46 gal that is heavily planted though, and they happily graze - are > the veggies still needed? > > I soaked the pellets today, and it worked. But the pellets get in the filter > intake tube grate. Grrr. > > What about algae tabs? I tossed one of those in a while back for the snails, > and I thought the goldfish were sharks! Not sure if those are good for them? > > Thanks again, > Kelly > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Fancy goldfish or long-bodied common goldfish? > > > > First, check the ingredients on the foods. Many of the el-cheapo > foods > > (Tetra, etc.) will start off with Fish Meal, Corn Flour, Wheat > Flour, etc... > > while the Fish Meal could be good, since these are usually el- cheapo > > products, they probably have el-cheapo fish meal (dried up and > ground up > > fish parts). Those three ingredients I just listed are the first > three on > > what I thought was a decent product, Hagen's Nutrafin Max Goldfish > Flake > > Food (Hagen is a reputable company for most of their products). I > still > > feed it on occasion as part of a balanced diet (maybe once a week > or so) BUT > > I always soak the flakes in a spoonful of tank water first so they > sink so > > the fish are not gulping air while trying to eat the floating > flakes. > > > > My primary goldfish and tropical fish food is now Omega One brand. > The > > first three ingredients on Omega One Goldfish Pellets... Whole > Salmon, Whole > > Herring, Whole Shrimp... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Even other quality > brands like > > Hikari leave a lot to be desired. First three ingredients on Hikari > > Tropical Algae Wafers: Fish Meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat > flour. So > > first, check your foods. If the ingredients are primarily flours > and meals > > (not typical food items found in a pond or lake or stream, then > look at > > getting a better quality food like Omega One or one of the other > quality > > brands... there are many so check the ingredients. Omega One is not > > expensive and it's available at PetsMart (I happen to have a > PetsMart a > > block from my subdivision so it's convenient for me). > > > > I also feed my goldfish veggies. I keep frozen green peas and > zucchini > > slices in my freezer for the goldfish. I was also given a partial > bag of > > frozen mixed vegetables and they ate them up too.. except for the > diced > > carrots. Maybe the carrots need to be blanched more to soften them > up more. > > > > > > Here's a page with a lot more info on feeding goldfish. > > http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> (page two > goes into > > more specifics on feeding). > > > > Here's a thread all about floaty goldfish and solutions. > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of redbackblack > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do my goldfish float? > > > > Yah, I know, bad question. But really, I have a couple of them who, > it > > appears, after eating ... they just cant stay down. Is this some > kind of > > bloat or swelling of the food? I've tried 3 different types of > food. Flakes > > and Pellets. Same, moreso with the flakes. One of them is starting > to get a > > white spot on his head from just giving up and floating - guess he > is drying > > out? Sometimes to the point where they go belly up. > > > > Advice? > > Thanks, Kelly > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > Tested on: 12/9/2008 12:10:41 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34188	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: foam on surface

What could cause foam on water surface? I've never had this before and I've had my tank for many years. I have bad tap water (well water), so I purchase gallons of spring water. I had been purchasing the gallons from Jewel but have switched to buying them at Walmart. I wonder if the new water is the cause. That's the only thing I can think of. I have a bunch of albino catfish and that's all. I clean the filter every week and replace about a gallon or two of water every week from my 10-gal. tank. Thanks, Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34189	From: jett07002	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re:

Mike, You mentioned somewhere in this thread that you used SuperGlue to glue live plants to rocks!!?? The plant itself or a container holding the plant? The pot glued to the rock, do not bother answering, I have done that a few times. But the plant itself? If so how did ya do that? Or was it a joke, maybe? joe t -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hey Lenny, > > I traded up from a cave in a valley to a cave on a hill. I did drag my knuckles and bloody them good when moving the tanks as I had not heard of "wheels" yet. > > I keep looking at the 70 tall and thinking "discus tank" but then reality sets in and I realize now is not the time. Maybe next year I will buy some wild discus and try and set up a South American tank. > I did pick up a few kinds of rainbowfish over the weekend that I have not kept before. Put them in the 80 gallon Stainless steel tank. This was the tank I had set aside for Madagascar cichlids. Now I need to reshuffle fish around the fish room again. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 7:50 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > > > > > > Dang straight.. and it was a custom all Black paint job too... and I was the > only buyer getting that color.. at least, that's what the salesman told me! > > And I walked to school, and the Model T dealership, through five miles of 3' > deep snow in the middle of winter too! Oh yeah.. after all that, Hank and I > are on a first name basis. Well, he's Hank to his friends... it's Mr. Ford > to the rest of you! ;-) > > So... did you have to carry those tanks from your cave... oops, I meant your > "old house"... in a rickshaw? ;-) > > Amber.... see what you started. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspo > t.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they > break? > > You did all that for a Model T? > > Wow Lenny, did Henry Ford send you an apology letter:) > > -Mike, who finally dragged home his 70 gallon Tall and 110 gallon Tanks from > his old house! > > ed to fix the lemon at no charge. > > That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. > > I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > > -----Original Message----- > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 2:19 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often > > enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace > > it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be > > reporting that crappy part on every website you can find and wait to > > see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the > > first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets > > the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many > > years ago in front > of the dealership and stood on the car picketing > > the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. > > That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. > > I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL0A > > Lenny Vasbinder > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't > > found it > > > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it > > could > > > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > > > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water > > will > > > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a > > spot > > > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the > > part > > > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is > > what > > > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > > > nothing to clamp onto :( > > > I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and > > waiting > > > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. > > Acrylic > > > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of=2 > 0acrylic tanks so it's > > safe > > > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > > > smelly any longer. > > > > > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the > > scre > w > > > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the > > break > > > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the > > same > > > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles > > <alone29784@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is > > fine > > > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > > > Subject:=2 > 0[AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > > > break? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=2 > 0> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > > > on if they break? > > > > > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when > > trying to > > > > > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in > > the > > > > > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings > > for > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 > Tested on: 12/7/2008 9:50:07 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34190	From: Dr. Katie Craft	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Thanks guys

Hey everyone Thanks for the input on my goldfish problem! Like I said, I cant afford to get another tank (I have 3 already) and dont have the space for anythig bigger than what I have. Some who are new here may not remember the posts I have had in the past since being a member about being taken advantage of by the pet shop where I got the goldfish. Being brand new to the hobby, I had no idea about the special needs and issues with keeping goldfish, and was actually sold the 5 goldfish for the 10 gallon tank, my first tank - I know!!! I could not believe it either as I began doing research and joining groups, like this one, and was shocked that they would do that, or that the workers could be so stupid to do such a thing!!! Getting the 30 gallon WAS getting another tank - the largest I could afford and that space allows, and that still isnt big enough for these goldfish. I cant go any bigger so I planed on finding them new homes once they got too big, which is pretty much now, and every now and then I have questions or issues with the goldfish and need help here. But I know they need a bigger set up, and I cant give them that, so they will be moving to new homes soon. My other tanks have fish that are much easier to keep and interesting, the demands of goldfish do not make them a great choice for even someone who is experianced - unless you are a goldfish fan big time and dont mind all the extra upkeep required!!! They are soooo much work, granted mine are extra work becuase of the small enviorment and stocking level they are in, but from everyone I talk to they seem to be tricky even in the best of conditions. Im attached to them, but I want the best for them, so I hope to find new homes for them. Blessings Dr. Craft

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34191	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife]

Hi Joe, I have not had opportunity to do it yet. There is a small Aquarium shop in San Francisco (Ocean Aquarium) that has a very loyal fan base and the owner explained to me that you can indeed superglue a plant to an object. He was explaining to me how to glue "Christmas Tree Moss" to the side of the tank or to a rock. He instructed me to do this with the rock out of the tank and to hold it for a few minutes to let it cure and then place it in the tank. I have also read on some of these yahoo aquatic lists that other planted tank aquarists do this as well. -Mike Mike, You mentioned somewhere in this thread that you used SuperGlue to glue live plants to rocks!!?? The plant itself or a container holding the plant? The pot glued to the rock, do not bother answering, I have done that a few times. But the plant itself? If so how did ya do that? Or was it a joke, maybe? joe t -----Original Message----- From: jett07002 <jett07002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 2:41 pm Subject: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Mike, You mentioned somewhere in this thread that you used SuperGlue to glue live plants to rocks!!?? The plant itself or a container holding the plant? The pot glued to the rock, do not bother answering, I have done that a few times. But the plant itself? If so how did ya do that? Or was it a joke, maybe? joe t -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hey Lenny, > > I traded up from a cave in a valley to a cave on a hill. I did drag my knuckles and bloody them good when moving the tanks as I had not heard of "wheels" yet. > > I keep looking at the 70 tall and thinking "discus tank" but then reality sets in and I realize now is not the time. Maybe next year I will buy some wild discus and try and set up a South American tank. > I did pick up a few kinds of rainbowfish over the weekend that I have not kept before. Put them in the 80 gallon Stainless steel tank. This was the tank I had set aside for Madagascar cichlids. Now I need to reshuffle fish around the fish room again. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 7:50 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > > > > > > Dang straight.. and it was a custom all Black paint job too... and I was the > only buyer getting that color.. at least, that's what the salesman told me! > > And I walked to school, and the Model T dealership, through five miles of 3' > deep snow in the middle of winter too! Oh yeah.. after all that, Hank and I > are on a first name basis. Well, he's Hank to his friends... it's Mr. Ford > to the rest of you! ;-) > > So... did you have to carry those tanks from your ca ve... oops, I meant your > "old house"... in a rickshaw? ;-) > > Amber.... see what you started. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspo > t.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they > break? > > You did all that for a Model T? > > Wow Lenny, did Henry Ford send you an apology letter:) > > -Mike, who finally dragged home his 70 gallon Tall and 110 gallon Tanks from > his old house! > > ed to fix the lemon at no charge. > > That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. > > I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > > -----Original Message----- > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 2:19 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often > > enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace > > it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be > > reporting that crappy par t on every website you can find and wait to > > see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the > > first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets > > the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many > > years ago in front > of the dealership and stood on the car picketing > > the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. > > That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. > > I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL0A > > Lenny Vasbinder > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't > > found it > > > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it > > could > > > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > > > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water > > will > > > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a > > spot > > > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the > > part > > > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is > > what > > > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > > > nothing to clamp onto :( > > > I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and > > waiting > > > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. > > Acrylic > > > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of=2 > 0acrylic tanks so it's > > safe > > > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > > > smelly any longer. > > > > > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the > > scre > w > > > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the > > break > > > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the > =0 A> same > > > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles > > <alone29784@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is > > fine > > > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > > > Subject:=2 > 0[AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > > > break? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=2 > 0> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > > > on if they break? > > > > > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when > > trying to > > > > > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in > =0 A> the > > > > > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings > > for > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081207-0, 12/07/2008 > Tested on: 12/7/2008 9:50:07 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34192	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Combining tanks

This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. Hmmmm . . . another thought . . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34193	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_W0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item390014962622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34194	From: sunfish3714	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Tropical Community Tank

Hey, guys. I was thinking about creating a tropical tank with some kids in my crew at my high school. I have had coolwater tanks with fish species from the perch, sunfish, and minnow families. I never really had anything that required a heater. So, I have a few questions. Where should I keep my pH? I was told that the temperature should be staying around 74-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that correct? How often should I check for nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia? Where would you suggest that I get the chemical tests for those things, if you would suggest chemical tests? Would you suggest a planted tank, knowing that we all are new to tropical tanks? Are there any plants that are relatively easy to maintain? We need to make this an informational tank that is "pretty" as well. I had envisioned an Amazon basin themed tank. What are your thoughts on this? Is there any other place in the world that has a great diversity of species to choose from? What are your thoughts on this?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34195	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!!

Nim, good to hear from you! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nimish Mathur Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!! When I used fluorite, I did not even rinse it. Laid it in the tank and filled it very slowly. Rinsing will only take away a lot of good that the plants could have used so I would suggest you stop rinsing. Dry the fluorite out and then add it to the empty tank and re-fill it. Nim From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nedra Sent: 09 December 2008 03:15 To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Florite -- I can't get it clean!! Thank you so much for your response Donna. I tell ya, I am still rinsing (3rd day) I must have rinsed this stuff 30 times already. I still can't get my water to run off clear. But when I leave it in the bucket with water overnight - the tiny particulates have settled by next day. So I'm thinking this is aa good as it gets. I don't know what a polyester pillow is. Is that a little enclosure you made or is it commercially available? I've used Eco Complete in a 55G and I love it! It's a jungle in that tank -- I have to constantly prune. But Eco complete is so darned expensive so when I saw this bag of Florite at a fish swap for $15, I decided to set up an old 20G long I had and see how it compares to the Eco Complete substrate. The one thing I hear on the aquatic plant forums is "rinse, rinse, rinse". But I'm thinking the point of Florite is the clay nutrients; and I'm pretty sure that's what I'm dissolving and washing away. Since the particulates settle overnight, do you think I can go ahead and put this in the 20G? I can cover it with regular gravel so it doesn't get stirred up. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I think the package says "pre-washed, but may be rinsed". I only use > Flourite inside polyester pillows (I bury them under rocks). I rinse until > the water runs clear once, but without much stirring. This helps retain the > nutrients, and the polyester contains the "dirt" you aren't able to remove. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34196	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Eheim website and new tank

I'm starting to wonder how well they manager their website at Eheim.com. I placed an order this weekend and also emailed them, so far they haven't approved my order or responded. I would have expected them to at least put my order through the system by now ;) I want my parts dag nabbit, LOL. I have only found one place online that sells the double tap that I need for my particular model, and that's amazon.com. I suppose I could order from amazon if eheim never responds. Also my hubby got me a quarantine tank (10 gallon setup from walmart) today. Apparently it went on sale to $25 and they don't plan on ordering any more, too bad they never bothered to order any of the 55 gallon setups :( I have the little filter for the 10 gallon running on my 125 gallon right now to get it cycled. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34197	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: window film

I've used it as a backing for aquariums before, but never actually used its adhesive to put it on, just tape. The adhesive is pretty strong, and once it is stuck, it is stuck, unless you use some pretty nasty chemicals to get it off. The "insulating" properties come from reflecting solar radiation back, and not letting a lot of it into your hose. The film and the adhesive have no insulating properties other than that. It will not keep the heat in your aquarium. FWIW, in my mis-spent youth, I worked at a factory that made the stuff. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > jjmiltner > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it > on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I > was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a > good idea? > > Jennie > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34198	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank

What is the pH of the water coming from your tap? What is it 24 hours later (same container left to sit after the initial measurement).? That will be the pH you have to work with. Choose your fish to fit the pH. You may be fortunate enough to be able to keep Amazonians, or you may need to look at the Rift Lakes in Africa for fish, or somewhere in between. The temperature you will want will be what the fish require. When choosing fish this is another factor to consider, you want fish that have intersecting temperature ranges so that everyone is comfortable. When you are first cycling the tank, you will need to test every day to ensure the cycle is progressing and to ensure you are adding the appropriate amount of ammonia. Once the tank is cycled and you start adding fish continue each day to ensure a stable tank for about a month, then you can start backing off to once a week, or less, depending on the stability of your tap water and tank. Planting the tank depends on the fish that you will have in it. Some fish will mow down plants faster than you can plant them, others will not touch them. There are a number of "easy' plants to keep, again, depending on your water chemistry. If plants are out, there are any number of ways to aquascape the tank. In any geographic region, except for temperature extremes, there is a wide diversity of fish to chose from. The question is more one of what is available. This can vary from store to store, and you can open your horizons to availability if there is a fish club, society, or association near you. There you should be able to have access to stuff not found in stores. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > sunfish3714 > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank > > > Hey, guys. > > I was thinking about creating a tropical tank with some kids in > my crew at my high school. I have had coolwater tanks with fish species > from the perch, sunfish, and minnow families. I never really had > anything that required a heater. So, I have a few questions. > > Where should I keep my pH? I was told that the temperature should > be staying around 74-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that correct? How often > should I check for nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia? Where would you > suggest that I get the chemical tests for those things, if you would > suggest chemical tests? Would you suggest a planted tank, knowing that > we all are new to tropical tanks? Are there any plants that are > relatively easy to maintain? We need to make this an informational tank > that is "pretty" as well. I had envisioned an Amazon basin themed tank. > What are your thoughts on this? Is there any other place in the world > that has a great diversity of species to choose from? What are your > thoughts on this? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34199	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim website and new tank

"Dag nabbit"? Any relation to "Dog gone it!" Or better yet, "You betcha! ;-)" Is there a "Sarah/Amber 2012" ticket in the works? Ya'll got my vote! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim website and new tank I'm starting to wonder how well they manager their website at Eheim.com. I placed an order this weekend and also emailed them, so far they haven't approved my order or responded. I would have expected them to at least put my order through the system by now ;) I want my parts dag nabbit, LOL. I have only found one place online that sells the double tap that I need for my particular model, and that's amazon.com. I suppose I could order from amazon if eheim never responds. Also my hubby got me a quarantine tank (10 gallon setup from walmart) today. Apparently it went on sale to $25 and they don't plan on ordering any more, too bad they never bothered to order any of the 55 gallon setups :( I have the little filter for the 10 gallon running on my 125 gallon right now to get it cycled. Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 9:36:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34200	From: Lisa	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: If they can do it, why can't I?

When I was younger, my dad had an aquarium similar to the size of the one I have now. And very successfully kept a community tank. Including Angelfish, a bala shark, and a male betta, possibly some kind of tetra too. I can't remember I was about 3 at the time. But mum came into my room last night to have a look at the background I finally got on to the tank, and suggested a couple of angels. Having had my parents be successful with this, I figured, if they can do it, why cant I? I have a good filter and heater. So what is the smallest angel available? The tank would be a single species tank of angels only (Max of 4),and is or will be soon, medium planted with live plants. They will be fed a mixed diet of vegetable flakes, live foods, including brine shrimp and blackworm, frozen bloodworm, and spirulina A fortnightly gravel vac and a weekly pwc. And daily water tests to ensure everything is all in working order. My fish, past, present, and future, regardless of species, have all lived in the best conditions I can financially provide. So that means they live better then I do. LoL. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34201	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

I'm betting that the Rena SmartHeater will fit on the intake of an AquaClear also.. as well as most other HOB's. You would have to measure and compare the OD (outside diameter) on both systems but just eyeballing the intake tube for the AC-50 and the intake tube for my XP1 and they appear to be the same outside diameter... meaning this device would likely work on any of the AC models although I do not have any larger than the AC-50 so I'm not sure if their larger models have larger intake tubes. Since this Rena SmartHeater advertises fitting on the XP-1 or the Rena HOB, I'm sure it will fit on most HOB's with the round intake tube. One of my Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheels, the Model 200, has more of a rounded corner rectangular intake tube so it wouldn't fit on that model but all of the HOB's that I've had with the round intakes have basically the same size intake on them so I'm sure Rena would have made their SmartHeater to fit on as many other brands/models as possible... otherwise that wouldn't be very "Smart". LOL I guess that's why Rena had their other heaters on clearance prices because they want to push their new SmartHeaters. That is a good idea to incorporate the heater as sliding over the intake tube so it's one less potential "eyesore" in the back of the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Hi Len, The reason why I was leaning on the Rena was this device: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18444 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18444> I have never seen anything like it but in occurred to me that it would allow for a better view inside the tank without all the extra plumbling? Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 12:47 PM If rear space is your primary issue, remember that an HOB does not have to be on the back. It can be on one of the sides. Would that make it an HOS? (Seems appropriate since it's Christmas time.. HO, HO, HO = HO'S ;-)) I've also seen the acronym HOT (Hang On Tank) used but HOB is the most common acronym for hang on back power filters. Of course, hanging it on the side presents issues if you were planning on using a standard (non-custom) cover or hood and lighting. If it's only a 29G, I think I'd go with an AquaClear since even a Rena Filstar XP-1 would be a lot of filtration for a 29G tank. An XP-1 is rated for 250 gallons per hour http://www.rena. net/Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 346 so unless you are going with fish that like a LOT of water movement... like fish that come from a fast flowing stream... then an appropriate sized HOB would be better.. I am not familiar with a canister filter that would be small enough for a 29G tank but there is a way to throttle back the water flow on the XP-1 with one of the attachments that came with it... at least I seem to remember that attachment being an option. I did not install that option when hooking up either of my XP's and the original boxes/parts have been in storage since my move after Hurricane Katrina. You'll see a part called an "Outflow Regulator" listed on this page so I'm guessing that is what was included in the original packaging. http://www.planetre na.com/Filstar- Rena-Parts. html Since behind the tank space is one of your concerns, the plumbing for the Rena could also be inserted into the tank from the sides so the 1" diameter plastic parts that go over the top of the tank frame could go into the tank on one end or one tube on each end... which ever suits your aesthetics and filtration preferences. Of course, if you have baseboards on your walls, the stand would probably be at least 3/4" to 1" away from the actual wall anyhow so the 1" tubes and plastic parts would easily fit behind the tank also. See if you can elicit more info from the Elves (maybe a cookies and milk bribe) about exactly what size tank Santa is bringing.... but then, that might ruin the surprise so maybe this bribe isn't a good thing... and make sure the Elf isn't named Blagojevich or Edwards as the F.B.I. might be listening. It seems Illinois is trying to compete with my beloved Louisiana for the most crooked Governor award (turn on Fox News if you don't know what this means). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Good Morning! I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol'bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger. The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn't know anything about keeping fish! Hey! Give him a break....... .he can't cover all the bases! However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol'bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want. Now that opens some doors, to say the least. As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall. But I'm wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one? In other words, are they worth the extra money? The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point. Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. Your Thought's Please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:03:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34202	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: window film

That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective film to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating up the inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage and it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like acrylic has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron thick piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. It might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I doubt it comes close to 50% insulative value. If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes and businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like fiberglass, styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air layer, it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test this by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain glass and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a nickel, there's none. Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in chemical composition to plastic/polymer/styrofoam where glass has a much different chemical composition. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] window film Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good idea? Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:23:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34203	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: window film

Lenny, As I said in my reply, she should not stick any film to her tank. It is very hard to remove, even with a razor. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective film > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating up the > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage and > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like acrylic > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron thick > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. It > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I doubt > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes and > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like fiberglass, > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air layer, > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test this > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain glass > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a nickel, > there's none. > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in chemical > composition to plastic/polymer/styrofoam where glass has a much different > chemical composition. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of jjmiltner > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it on > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the heat. > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good idea? > > Jennie > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34204	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: window film

Oh.. this reminds me. I already answered this post a little earlier but if you really wanted to provide thermal insulation to the tank, you could get a 4'x8' sheet of the pink or white styrofoam (1" thick) and cut panels to fit on the tank. It's what people do in very cold areas to help protect their tanks in the event of a catastrophic winter-time power failure. Putting a sheet of this down first and then setting the tank on top will insulate the bottom of the tank. As I said earlier, using this type of film on car windows or home windows that get a lot of sunlight will help keep some of the sun light created heat but it will not do much for the actual ambient/thermal temperature exchange that takes place. There is a clear plastic film that people will apply to the inside of the window box so that it creates an airspace between the outside window and the inside room and that will do a lot to keep cold out and warmth in but that film is taped to the wall around the window box opening and then a hair dryer is used to make the clear plastic film shrink to make a nice tight mostly clear view in case you still want to open the curtains to see out. This works similarly to adding storm windows to the outside of your normal windows so there is a 1/2" to 1" gap between the existing windows and the storm windows so that dead air space acts as an insulator. Man.. I'm starting to feel like I'm working now with all this home repair/renovation/handyman talk going on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] window film Is your aquarium in a room that's not room temperature? or do you keep your house temps low? I can't see needing to insulate your aquarium unless you have it in a cold room where the heater would have to work harder to keep it at a higher temp. If you don't use a heater and keep it in a room that's in the 70's then perhaps insulating it may help a little so that the heat doesn't flucuate as much when the room temps drop. But if you're using a heater and the tank is indoors then insulation may not help a whole lot, but I could be wrong, I'm not an expert on insulation LOL. Amber jjmiltner wrote: > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of > the heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is > on. I was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it > was a good idea? > > Jennie > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:37:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34205	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?

The difference for pond goldfish and using el-cheapo foods is that pond goldfish should not be the fancy goldfish and the common goldfish are much more hardy compared to the inbred/mutated fancy goldfish... and pond goldfish still get plenty of natural things to eat. Fancy goldfish have to be treated much more gingerly than their common goldfish counterparts. Besides, all kinds of insects will fly or crawl into the water.. gulp! Worms will crawl into the water or some live underwater.. gulp, gulp! Small bird, BIG Goldfish? GULP! But for folks that have Koi or other expensive pond fish, they feed their fish food that costs more per pound than the food most of us eat. I used to feed my pond goldfish the el-cheapo Wardley's stuff but down here in N'Awlins, we have plenty of live natural foods for the pond goldfish and one of them 3" flying cockroaches would feed one or more of the goldfish a nice gooey, chewy, juicy, high protein meal! ;-) I even had a bug-zapper set up over one of the bigger ponds so the zapped bugs would drop into the pond. The fish quickly learned that when that bug-zapper light was turned on, it was feeding time and they'd start crowding around underneath it waiting for some fresh-baked bugs. You'd hear a zap and then a series of splashes as the fish fought over the late-night dessert. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of redbackblack Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? Thank you Lenny, peas it is. Yes, the algae tabs are the Hikari ones. Are those ok? The first flakes I had were 'Top Fin' - no doubt an el cheapo. Fish meal, ground brown rice, wheat germ meal, feeding oat meal, shrimp meal..... The next flakes and pellets were Wardleys. I got that because that was what I always used in my outdoor pond, and liked it. Pellets: Dehulled soybean meal, ground wheat, fish meal, corn gluten meal, wheat middlings.... Flakes: Fish meal, wheat flour, rice flour, corn gluten meal, wheat germ meal, fish oil.... Hmmm, probably should get a better food. That Omega sounds very nice. Kelly --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The green peas are a natural laxative for most freshwater fish so feeding > them pea "meat" (pinch the skin to release the two halves... what I call the > "meat" of the pea) is a good thing. Feed them the peas only for a couple of > days to clean them out good and see if that resolves the floaty issue... and > the fish love them (even more than your little brother loved them chocolate > exlax bars. LOL) > > If it does, then you know it's more related to digestive bloating that could > be causing gas issues in the digestive system or non-gas bloating could be > compressing the lines leading to the swim bladder so the fish is not able to > regulate the swim bladder properly. Feeding a better diet would likely > solve this type of issue. > > Usually, floating upside down is gas in the digestive system. Floating in > any other manner (head up, tail up or just stuck at the surface) usually > indicates issues with regulating the swim bladder. These issues, if > directly affected by feeding times, would be likely affected by digestive > bloating compressing the swim bladder control lines. If it's happening all > of the time and not just after feeding, then it could be a bacterial > infection affecting the swim bladder or other organs which then swell up and > compress the swim bladder or the control lines. > > You could turn off the filter for a few minutes during feeding times or if > you get the Omega One goldfish pellets, they sink to the bottom so that is > not an issue. > > As far as the algae tabs, it depends on what is in them. I listed the first > three ingredients on the Hikari Algae Wafers that I have and none of them > are algae related.. although one was alfalfa which for me is probably worse > than eating algae. Ewww.. I hate alfalfa. LOL > > Here is the ingredients for Omega One Veggie Rounds.. which I'll be buying > when I run out of the Hikari's... > http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html > <http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html> > INGREDIENTS: Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Halibut, Seafood Mix > (Including Krill, Whole Herring, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten,... > > Yes, those darned Wheat Flour and Gluten ingredients show up in the > ingredients list since most of these products need something as a base to > hold them together but you see where it's not until the sixth and seventh > ingredients rather than the primary first few ingredients like on most of > the el-cheapo foods. > > You can keep feeding the fish your current foods but you might also want to > get a better food to feed them so you only have to feed them the current > foods as part of their diet rather than their primary diet, until you run > out of their current foods and can then choose only better foods for them > all of the time in the future. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of redbackblack > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? > > Ah ha! My apologies. I had no idea it was that common, and a quick search > would have no doubt reavealed the answer. But thank you. > Very helpful info. > > And yes, it is the fantail and the Moor who float, the shibunkin does not. I > have a 46 gal that is heavily planted though, and they happily graze - are > the veggies still needed? > > I soaked the pellets today, and it worked. But the pellets get in the filter > intake tube grate. Grrr. > > What about algae tabs? I tossed one of those in a while back for the snails, > and I thought the goldfish were sharks! Not sure if those are good for them? > > Thanks again, > Kelly > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Fancy goldfish or long-bodied common goldfish? > > > > First, check the ingredients on the foods. Many of the el-cheapo > foods > > (Tetra, etc.) will start off with Fish Meal, Corn Flour, Wheat > Flour, etc... > > while the Fish Meal could be good, since these are usually el- cheapo > > products, they probably have el-cheapo fish meal (dried up and > ground up > > fish parts). Those three ingredients I just listed are the first > three on > > what I thought was a decent product, Hagen's Nutrafin Max Goldfish > Flake > > Food (Hagen is a reputable company for most of their products). I > still > > feed it on occasion as part of a balanced diet (maybe once a week > or so) BUT > > I always soak the flakes in a spoonful of tank water first so they > sink so > > the fish are not gulping air while trying to eat the floating > flakes. > > > > My primary goldfish and tropical fish food is now Omega One brand. > The > > first three ingredients on Omega One Goldfish Pellets... Whole > Salmon, Whole > > Herring, Whole Shrimp... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Even other quality > brands like > > Hikari leave a lot to be desired. First three ingredients on Hikari > > Tropical Algae Wafers: Fish Meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat > flour. So > > first, check your foods. If the ingredients are primarily flours > and meals > > (not typical food items found in a pond or lake or stream, then > look at > > getting a better quality food like Omega One or one of the other > quality > > brands... there are many so check the ingredients. Omega One is not > > expensive and it's available at PetsMart (I happen to have a > PetsMart a > > block from my subdivision so it's convenient for me). > > > > I also feed my goldfish veggies. I keep frozen green peas and > zucchini > > slices in my freezer for the goldfish. I was also given a partial > bag of > > frozen mixed vegetables and they ate them up too.. except for the > diced > > carrots. Maybe the carrots need to be blanched more to soften them > up more. > > > > > > Here's a page with a lot more info on feeding goldfish. > > http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> > (page two > goes into > > more specifics on feeding). > > > > Here's a thread all about floaty goldfish and solutions. > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of redbackblack > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do my goldfish float? > > > > Yah, I know, bad question. But really, I have a couple of them who, > it > > appears, after eating ... they just cant stay down. Is this some > kind of > > bloat or swelling of the food? I've tried 3 different types of > food. Flakes > > and Pellets. Same, moreso with the flakes. One of them is starting > to get a > > white spot on his head from just giving up and floating - guess he > is drying > > out? Sometimes to the point where they go belly up. > > > > Advice? > > Thanks, Kelly _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:54:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34206	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?

Oooooh! Thanks for the idea Lenny. -Mike I even had a bug-zapper set up over one of the bigger ponds so the zapped bugs would drop into the pond. The fish quickly learned that when that bug-zapper light was turned on, it was feeding time and they'd start crowding around underneath it waiting for some fresh-baked bugs. You'd hear a zap and then a series of splashes as the fish fought over the late-night dessert. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 8:54 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? The difference for pond goldfish and using el-cheapo foods is that pond goldfish should not be the fancy goldfish and the common goldfish are much more hardy compared to the inbred/mutated fancy goldfish... and pond goldfish still get plenty of natural things to eat. Fancy goldfish have to be treated much more gingerly than their common goldfish counterparts. Besides, all kinds of insects will fly or crawl into the water.. gulp! Worms will crawl into the water or some live underwater.. gulp, gulp! Small bird, BIG Goldfish? GULP! But for folks that have Koi or other expensive pond fish, they feed their fish food that costs more per pound than the food most of us eat. I used to feed my pond goldfish the el-cheapo Wardley's stuff but down here in N'Awlins, we have plenty of live natural foods for the pond goldfish and one of them 3" flying cockroaches would feed one or more of the goldfish a nice gooey, chewy, juicy, high protein meal! ;-) I even had a bug-zapper set up over one of the bigger ponds so the zapped bugs would drop into the pond. The fish quickly learned that when that bug-zapper light was turned on, it was feeding time and they'd start crowding around underneath it waiting for some fresh-baked bugs. You'd hear a zap and then a series of splashes as the fish fought over the late-night dessert. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of redbackblack Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? Thank you Lenny, peas it is. Yes, the algae tabs are the Hikari ones. Are those ok? The first flakes I had were 'Top Fin' - no doubt an el cheapo. Fish meal, ground brown rice, wheat germ meal, feeding oat meal, shrimp meal..... The next flakes and pellets were Wardleys. I got that because that was what I always used in my outdoor pond, and liked it. Pellets: Dehulled soybean meal, ground wheat, fish meal, corn gluten meal, wheat middlings.... Flakes: Fish meal, wheat flour, rice flour, corn gluten meal, wheat germ meal, fish oil.... Hmmm, probably should get a better food. That Omega sounds very nice. Kelly --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com20<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The green peas are a natural laxative for most freshwater fish so feeding > them pea "meat" (pinch the skin to release the two halves... what I call the > "meat" of the pea) is a good thing. Feed them the peas only for a couple of > days to clean them out good and see if that resolves the floaty issue... and > the fish love them (even more than your little brother loved them chocolate > exlax bars. LOL) > > If it does, then you know it's more related to digestive bloating that could > be causing gas issues in the digestive system or non-gas bloating could be > compressing the lines leading to the swim bladder so the fish is not able to > regulate the swim bladder properly. Feeding a better diet would likely > solve this type of issue. > > Usually, floating upside down is gas in the digestive system. Floating in > any other manner (head up, tail up or just stuck at the surface) usually > indicates issues with regulating the swim bladder. These issues, if > directly affected by feeding times, would be likely affected by digestive > bloating compressing the swim bladder control lines. If it's happening all > of the time and not just after feeding, then it could be a bacterial > infection affecting the swim bladder or other organs which then swell up and > compress the swim bladder or the control lines. > > You could turn off the filter for a few minutes during feeding times or if > you get the Omega One goldfish pellets, they sink to the bottom so that is > not an issue. > > As far as the algae tabs, it depends on what is in them. I listed the first > three ingredients on the Hikari Algae Wafers that I have and none of them > are algae related.. although one was alfalfa which for me is probably worse > than eating algae. Ewww.. I hate alfalfa. LOL > > Here is the ingredients for Omega One Veggie Rounds.. which I'll be buying > when I run out of the Hikari's... > http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html > <http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html> > INGREDIENTS: Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Halibut, Seafood Mix > (Including Krill, Whole Herring, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten,... > > Yes, those darned Wheat Flour and Gluten ingredients show up in the > ingredients list since most of these products need something as a base to > hold them together but you see where it's not until the sixth and seventh > ingredients rather than the primary first few ingredients like on most of > the el-cheapo foods. > > You can keep feeding the fish your current foods but you might also want to > get a better food to feed them so you only have to feed them the current > foods as part of their diet rather than their primary diet, until you run > out of their current foods and can then choose only better foods for them > all of the time in the future. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles20referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of redbackblack > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? > > Ah ha! My apologies. I had no idea it was that common, and a quick search > would have no doubt reavealed the answer. But thank you. > Very helpful info. > > And yes, it is the fantail and the Moor who float, the shibunkin does not. I > have a 46 gal that is heavily planted though, and they happily graze - are > the veggies still needed? > > I soaked the pellets today, and it worked. But the pellets get in the filter > intake tube grate. Grrr. > > What about algae tabs? I tossed one of those in a while back for the snails, > and I thought the goldfish were sharks! Not sure if those are good for them? > > Thanks again, > Kelly > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Fancy goldfish or long-bodied common goldfish? > > > > First, check the ingredients on the foods. Many of the el-cheapo > foods > > (Tetra, etc.) will start off with Fish Meal, Corn Flour, Wheat > Flour, etc... > > while the Fish Meal could be good, since these are usually el- cheapo > > products, they probably have el-cheapo fish meal (dried up and > ground up > > fish parts). Those three ingredients I just listed are the first > three on > > what I thought was a decent product, Hagen's Nutrafin Max Goldfish > Flake > > Food (Hagen is a reputable company for most of their products). I > still > > feed it on occasion as part of a balanced diet (maybe once a week > or so) BUT > > I always soak the flakes in a spoonful of tank water first so they > sink so > > the fish are not gulping air while trying to eat the floating > flakes. > > > > My primary goldfish and tropical fish food is now Omega One brand. > The > > first three ingredients on Omega One Goldfish Pellets... Whole > Salmon, Whole > > Herring, Whole Shrimp... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Even other quality > brands like > > Hikari leave a lot to be desired. First three ingredients on Hikari > > Tropical Algae Wafers: Fish Meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat > flour. So > > first, check your foods. If the ingredients are primarily flours > and meals > > (not typical food items found in a pond or lake or stream, then > look at > > getting a better quality food like Omega One or one of the other > quality > > brands... there are many so check the ingredients. Omega One is not > > expensive and it's available at PetsMart (I happen to have a > PetsMart a > > block from my subdivision so it's convenient for me). > > > > I20also feed my goldfish veggies. I keep frozen green peas and > zucchini > > slices in my freezer for the goldfish. I was also given a partial > bag of > > frozen mixed vegetables and they ate them up too.. except for the > diced > > carrots. Maybe the carrots need to be blanched more to soften them > up more. > > > > > > Here's a page with a lot more info on feeding goldfish. > > http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> > (page two > goes into > > more specifics on feeding). > > > > Here's a thread all about floaty goldfish and solutions. > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of redbackblack > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:58 PM0A> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do my goldfish float? > > > > Yah, I know, bad question. But really, I have a couple of them who, > it > > appears, after eating ... they just cant stay down. Is this some > kind of > > bloat or swelling of the food? I've tried 3 different types of > food. Flakes > > and Pellets. Same, moreso with the flakes. One of them is starting > to get a > > white spot on his head from just giving up and floating - guess he > is drying > > out? Sometimes to the point where they go belly up. > > > > Advice? > > Thanks, Kelly _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:54:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: foam on surface

Foam is usually caused by high levels dissolved proteins and other DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) in the water. Some medicines/treatments will cause foaming but you did not indicate that you've done any kind of treatment. This likely means you need to increase the frequency of your filter maintenance and 25% PWC's (partial water changes). If you are doing them once a week now, increase them to twice a week. Are you also vacuuming your gravel with each weekly tank maintenance? What kind of albino catfish do you have? "Catfish" is a simple name for a very large category of fish with thousands of species... some staying as small as 1" and others growing to small child-eating size of 6 feet long and weighing hundreds of pounds. What worked for tank maintenance when the fish were small will not continue to work as the fish grow. Most fish grow eight times in body mass for each time the double in length so a 2" fish is actually equal to eight 1" fish, not just two... so either the tank has to get bigger or the maintenance schedule has to increase to compensate for the increased bioload of the growing fish. How many do you have and how big are they? There's a lot more we need to get into such as water testing, tank water parameters and the bottled water parameters that would give us more info. Do you have any kind of water tests? If yes, give us the test results from those. Also, check Walmart.com and order either the Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kit or the API master test kit (either are under $20.00). As you may know, they will deliver it to the store for free for your pickup when it arrives. Once you have a decent master test kit and know what kind of catfish you have, we can start checking your bottle water and tank water to figure things out more definitively. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tootsie2toes2 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] foam on surface What could cause foam on water surface? I've never had this before and I've had my tank for many years. I have bad tap water (well water), so I purchase gallons of spring water. I had been purchasing the gallons from Jewel but have switched to buying them at Walmart. I wonder if the new water is the cause. That's the only thing I can think of. I have a bunch of albino catfish and that's all. I clean the filter every week and replace about a gallon or two of water every week from my 10-gal. tank. Thanks, Judy _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 11:08:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34208	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife]

Hey Mike, Don't forget to take some pics of your fingers glued to them rocks. LOL Of course, if you glued them to your knuckles, they could help prevent knuckle-dragging injuries. ;-) Or better yet, take a pic of you kissing one of the rocks with the glued on plant, to celebrate your handy work... hopefully right before the superglue cures. Now that would be a good pic for the group's homepage. ;-) Who started this thread again? Oh yeah.. Amber! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Hi Joe, I have not had opportunity to do it yet. There is a small Aquarium shop in San Francisco (Ocean Aquarium) that has a very loyal fan base and the owner explained to me that you can indeed superglue a plant to an object. He was explaining to me how to glue "Christmas Tree Moss" to the side of the tank or to a rock. He instructed me to do this with the rock out of the tank and to hold it for a few minutes to let it cure and then place it in the tank. I have also read on some of these yahoo aquatic lists that other planted tank aquarists do this as well. -Mike Mike, You mentioned somewhere in this thread that you used SuperGlue to glue live plants to rocks!!?? The plant itself or a container holding the plant? The pot glued to the rock, do not bother answering, I have done that a few times. But the plant itself? If so how did ya do that? Or was it a joke, maybe? joe t -----Original Message----- From: jett07002 <jett07002@... <mailto:jett07002%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 2:41 pm Subject: Was glue, now ancient aquarists. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? Mike, You mentioned somewhere in this thread that you used SuperGlue to glue live plants to rocks!!?? The plant itself or a container holding the plant? The pot glued to the rock, do not bother answering, I have done that a few times. But the plant itself? If so how did ya do that? Or was it a joke, maybe? joe t -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hey Lenny, > > I traded up from a cave in a valley to a cave on a hill. I did drag my knuckles and bloody them good when moving the tanks as I had not heard of "wheels" yet. > > I keep looking at the 70 tall and thinking "discus tank" but then reality sets in and IÂ realize now is not the time. Maybe next year I will buy some wild discus and try and set up a South American tank. > I did pick up a few kinds of rainbowfish over the weekend that I have not kept before. Put them in the 80 gallon Stainless steel tank. This was the tank I had set aside for Madagascar cichlids. Now I need to reshuffle fish around the fish room again. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 7:50 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > > > > > > Dang straight.. and it was a custom all Black paint job too... and I was the > only buyer getting that color.. at least, that's what the salesman told me! > > And I walked to school, and the Model T dealership, through five miles of 3' > deep snow in the middle of winter too! Oh yeah.. after all that, Hank and I > are on a first name basis. Well, he's Hank to his friends... it's Mr. Ford > to the rest of you! ;-) > > So... did you have to carry those tanks from your ca ve... oops, I meant your > "old house"... in a rickshaw? ;-) > > Amber.... see what you started. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspo <http://GoldLenny.blogspo> t.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if > they break? > > You did all that for a Model T? > > Wow Lenny, did Henry Ford send you an apology letter:) > > -Mike, who finally dragged home his 70 gallon Tall and 110 gallon Tanks from > his old house! > > ed to fix the lemon at no charge. > > That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. > > I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > > -----Original Message----- > From: goldlenny_blogspot <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 2:19 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? > > Since they sell the part, it's likely something that breaks often > > enough. I'd try the P/O'd customer routine to see if they'll replace > > it for free. If they won't, buy the part but suggest that you'll be > > reporting that crappy par t on every website you can find and wait to > > see if they reconsider. Asking for a manager also works when the > > first person says no. LOL That's me though.. the squeaky wheel gets > > the grease. Although I did park a lemon car that I got many, many > > years ago in front > of the dealership and stood on the car picketing > > the place until they finally agreed to fix the lemon at no charge. > > That was thousands of dollars and in my wild and crazy college days. > > I'm not sure I'd do all that for a $35.00 part. LOL0A > > Lenny Vasbinder > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > They have the replacement part for 34.95 on eheim and I haven't > > found it > > > anywhere else yet. I was just hoping to fix it temporarily so it > > could > > > be used until I could get the part. I didn't want to use superglue > > > because I figured it wouldn't hold for long and considering water > > will > > > be going through it that could be a huge mess. It's definately a > > spot > > > that can't be reinforced with a clamp like you suggest because the > > part > > > that goes inside the hose to connect to the rest of the part is > > what > > > broke off, it broke off flush with the rest of the part so there's > > > nothing to clamp onto :( > > > I'm thinking that I'd be better off just buying a new part and > > waiting > > > just so I don't end up with a huge mess if it's breaks. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > goldlenny_blogspot wrote: > > > > > > > > Superglue has more of a tendancy to snap/break loose under stress. > > > > And since you are talking about a potential major disaster if it > > > > leaks or breaks, I'd go with at least 2-part acrylic epoxy. > > Acrylic > > > > epoxy is used for sealing the insides of=2 > 0acrylic tanks so it's > > safe > > > > to use as long as you let it dry and outgas completely so it's not > > > > smelly any longer. > > > > > > > > If the break is not at a T, then you could also put one of the > > scre > w > > > > tighten hose connectors (like a radiator hose clamp) over the > > break > > > > (after gluing it) to further reinforce that spot. Does that spot > > > > look like a weak spot? You might want to contact Eheim to see if > > > > they offer a replacement part. Many companies have secret recalls > > > > where they'll replace a product or part that has been found to be > > > > sometimes defective. They only publish a recall when it's a > > > > dangerous situation. These secret recalls are for the life of the > > > > product and extend beyond a normal warranty. If you do a Google > > > > search for your model and issue, you might find others with the > =0 A> same > > > > complaints and how they remedied the situation or fixed theirs > > > > permanently. Check with Eheim first though. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Philip Charles > > <alone29784@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I agree. I use Super Glue for building caves with rocks. It is > > fine > > > > to use just let it dry good and rinse the item. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > > > Subject:=2 > 0[AquaticLife] Safe to glue parts back together if they > > > > break? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 4:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=2 > 0> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What product is safe to use to glue plastic parts back > > > > on if they break? > > > > > > > > > > One of the hose connectors on the eheim filter broke when > > trying to > > > > > > > > > > disconnect the hose from it, I was hoping to do a quick fix in > =0 A> the > > > > > > > > > > meantime until I can get a new Double tap unit w/sealing rings > > for > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Amber _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 11:12:34 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34209	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we were doing. - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her dorsal fin and near one eye. - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I thought constipation might be part of the problem. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the bigger tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a little (or raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough surface agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live plants are all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. Cooler water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will start to turn around soon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC yesterday) - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I can see bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look into an airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated carbon will not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does not remove nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A-carbon filter. I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and I would use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it simply isn't practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that you'll be changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my Betta tank was because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or 2G of water. 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to worry about treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for simplicity... but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a weekly basis. Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the world, I don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the goldfish tank. A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> or a $5.00 - 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> would last you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator will treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and changing 25% weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... probably much less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the Britta. The 16 oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water but it's harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the TopFin 8 oz. lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from whomever I'm ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for shipping than the product... at least not to me. You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without using the Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the future. Test it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will break the chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through a Brita filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll search down the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading is right after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I don't add anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water and dechlorinate with tablets? I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration helps Raven any. Santa Baby! Put that big tank under my tree for me! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other surface areas of the tank. Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and frequent PWC's. Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the bottom most of the time. - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not quite 20ppm - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a 20G tank DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's definitely a 20G. - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 5:34:19 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34210	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

Geez Mike.. you are old. You remember Woolworth's. Ooops.. I just admitted that I know what a Woolworth's is also. Are they still around? We lost our last Woolworth's on Canal Street down here in N'Awlins a long time ago. Wikipedia says they closed them all down in 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._Woolworth_Company OK.. back to the topic... There will be a rude awakening for the fish that is in the bridge when evaporation in one of the tanks causes the surface level to drop down right below the bridge intake. When the siphon/vacuum effect is lost, the water in the bridge will go rushing into one of the tanks surprising the hell out of the fish in the bridge. LOL While on the topic, check out these others... This top link is one of the wilder tank bridges that I've seen. http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/ This one is interesting too. His article implies he has a canister filter suctioning from one tank and returning to the other tank so there is a water flow through the bridge... and it looks like it might be cat proof judging from the brackets and clamps used on the thing. http://www.bio-elite.com/waterbridge.htm http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/baqtrailaqki.html http://www.aqua-bridge.com/index2.html The one you found is a pretty good price for a DIY project. The time/materials it would take to make just one of these would cost more than the $20.00 total cost for the eBay item. Good find! DebR, Instead of trying to bridge the tanks, you could add a DIY sump to your tank and increase the water volume that way. Then the fish would stay in the current tank but the water from the main tank would flow down into the sump tank which would then have more filtration and also could have lots of live plants to help keep the water cleaner. This would require either a canister filter system and an overflow valve on the main tank. In retrospect, it would be less expensive to just save up your money for a BIG tank. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_W 0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item390014962 622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C2 40%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 <http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_ W0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item39001496 2622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50> I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 11:51:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: If they can do it, why can't I?

How long did the fish live? Sure, you can stick five common pleco's in a 10G tank when they are babies but they won't make it their expected lifespan of 20 years or more in that 10G tank. As they grow, they'll live in deplorable conditions, have many health issues and inevitably die an early death. The same will happen to any BIG fish stuck in an undersized tank. Angelfish are BIG fish. I'm sure mommy and daddy didn't tell you kiddies when the fish died and were flushed... which was the common thing to do back then.. and still is improperly done today. Do you ever remember seeing one of them angelfish reach full size... with the body about the size of a dinner plate.. with fins that went even further? Probably not. Were the angelfish and bala shark still around when you were finishing up high school or going off to college? Angelfish should live 10-15 years and the Bala Shark 15+ years. Four angelfish would need a 100G+ tank. The smallest of their species should grow to 6" long and 9" tall.. with fins that grow much taller so a deep tank is needed. A 35G, 36" long tank would work for a single adult.. and maybe a school of smaller fish that might be mistaken as food for the angelfish as it gets bigger. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm In closing and to answer your question, there are a lot of things that can be done... but that doesn't mean they should be done. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] If they can do it, why can't I? When I was younger, my dad had an aquarium similar to the size of the one I have now. And very successfully kept a community tank. Including Angelfish, a bala shark, and a male betta, possibly some kind of tetra too. I can't remember I was about 3 at the time. But mum came into my room last night to have a look at the background I finally got on to the tank, and suggested a couple of angels. Having had my parents be successful with this, I figured, if they can do it, why cant I? I have a good filter and heater. So what is the smallest angel available? The tank would be a single species tank of angels only (Max of 4),and is.or will be soon, medium planted with live plants. They will be fed a mixed diet of vegetable flakes, live foods, including brine shrimp and blackworm, frozen bloodworm, and spirulina A fortnightly gravel vac and a weekly pwc. And daily water tests to ensure everything is all in working order. My fish, past, present, and future, regardless of species, have all lived in the best conditions I can financially provide. So that means they live better then I do. LoL. Lisa _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 12:10:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Why do my goldfish float?

Yep.. now that's recycling! Get rid of the mosquitoes and bugs while enjoying the backyard and feed the fish at the same time. Don't forget to take the collection plate off the bottom of the bug-zapper. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? Oooooh! Thanks for the idea Lenny. -Mike I even had a bug-zapper set up over one of the bigger ponds so the zapped bugs would drop into the pond. The fish quickly learned that when that bug-zapper light was turned on, it was feeding time and they'd start crowding around underneath it waiting for some fresh-baked bugs. You'd hear a zap and then a series of splashes as the fish fought over the late-night dessert. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 8:54 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? The difference for pond goldfish and using el-cheapo foods is that pond goldfish should not be the fancy goldfish and the common goldfish are much more hardy compared to the inbred/mutated fancy goldfish... and pond goldfish still get plenty of natural things to eat. Fancy goldfish have to be treated much more gingerly than their common goldfish counterparts. Besides, all kinds of insects will fly or crawl into the water.. gulp! Worms will crawl into the water or some live underwater.. gulp, gulp! Small bird, BIG Goldfish? GULP! But for folks that have Koi or other expensive pond fish, they feed their fish food that costs more per pound than the food most of us eat. I used to feed my pond goldfish the el-cheapo Wardley's stuff but down here in N'Awlins, we have plenty of live natural foods for the pond goldfish and one of them 3" flying cockroaches would feed one or more of the goldfish a nice gooey, chewy, juicy, high protein meal! ;-) I even had a bug-zapper set up over one of the bigger ponds so the zapped bugs would drop into the pond. The fish quickly learned that when that bug-zapper light was turned on, it was feeding time and they'd start crowding around underneath it waiting for some fresh-baked bugs. You'd hear a zap and then a series of splashes as the fish fought over the late-night dessert. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of redbackblack Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? Thank you Lenny, peas it is. Yes, the algae tabs are the Hikari ones. Are those ok? The first flakes I had were 'Top Fin' - no doubt an el cheapo. Fish meal, ground brown rice, wheat germ meal, feeding oat meal, shrimp meal..... The next flakes and pellets were Wardleys. I got that because that was what I always used in my outdoor pond, and liked it. Pellets: Dehulled soybean meal, ground wheat, fish meal, corn gluten meal, wheat middlings.... Flakes: Fish meal, wheat flour, rice flour, corn gluten meal, wheat germ meal, fish oil.... Hmmm, probably should get a better food. That Omega sounds very nice. Kelly --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com20 <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com20> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The green peas are a natural laxative for most freshwater fish so feeding > them pea "meat" (pinch the skin to release the two halves... what I call the > "meat" of the pea) is a good thing. Feed them the peas only for a couple of > days to clean them out good and see if that resolves the floaty issue... and > the fish love them (even more than your little brother loved them chocolate > exlax bars. LOL) > > If it does, then you know it's more related to digestive bloating that could > be causing gas issues in the digestive system or non-gas bloating could be > compressing the lines leading to the swim bladder so the fish is not able to > regulate the swim bladder properly. Feeding a better diet would likely > solve this type of issue. > > Usually, floating upside down is gas in the digestive system. Floating in > any other manner (head up, tail up or just stuck at the surface) usually > indicates issues with regulating the swim bladder. These issues, if > directly affected by feeding times, would be likely affected by digestive > bloating compressing the swim bladder control lines. If it's happening all > of the time and not just after feeding, then it could be a bacterial > infection affecting the swim bladder or other organs which then swell up and > compress the swim bladder or the control lines. > > You could turn off the filter for a few minutes during feeding times or if > you get the Omega One goldfish pellets, they sink to the bottom so that is > not an issue. > > As far as the algae tabs, it depends on what is in them. I listed the first > three ingredients on the Hikari Algae Wafers that I have and none of them > are algae related.. although one was alfalfa which for me is probably worse > than eating algae. Ewww.. I hate alfalfa. LOL > > Here is the ingredients for Omega One Veggie Rounds.. which I'll be buying > when I run out of the Hikari's... > http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html > <http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html> > <http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html > <http://www.omegasea.net/veggie_rounds.html> > > INGREDIENTS: Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Halibut, Seafood Mix > (Including Krill, Whole Herring, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten,... > > Yes, those darned Wheat Flour and Gluten ingredients show up in the > ingredients list since most of these products need something as a base to > hold them together but you see where it's not until the sixth and seventh > ingredients rather than the primary first few ingredients like on most of > the el-cheapo foods. > > You can keep feeding the fish your current foods but you might also want to > get a better food to feed them so you only have to feed them the current > foods as part of their diet rather than their primary diet, until you run > out of their current foods and can then choose only better foods for them > all of the time in the future. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles20referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of redbackblack > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do my goldfish float? > > Ah ha! My apologies. I had no idea it was that common, and a quick search > would have no doubt reavealed the answer. But thank you. > Very helpful info. > > And yes, it is the fantail and the Moor who float, the shibunkin does not. I > have a 46 gal that is heavily planted though, and they happily graze - are > the veggies still needed? > > I soaked the pellets today, and it worked. But the pellets get in the filter > intake tube grate. Grrr. > > What about algae tabs? I tossed one of those in a while back for the snails, > and I thought the goldfish were sharks! Not sure if those are good for them? > > Thanks again, > Kelly > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Fancy goldfish or long-bodied common goldfish? > > > > First, check the ingredients on the foods. Many of the el-cheapo > foods > > (Tetra, etc.) will start off with Fish Meal, Corn Flour, Wheat > Flour, etc... > > while the Fish Meal could be good, since these are usually el- cheapo > > products, they probably have el-cheapo fish meal (dried up and > ground up > > fish parts). Those three ingredients I just listed are the first > three on > > what I thought was a decent product, Hagen's Nutrafin Max Goldfish > Flake > > Food (Hagen is a reputable company for most of their products). I > still > > feed it on occasion as part of a balanced diet (maybe once a week > or so) BUT > > I always soak the flakes in a spoonful of tank water first so they > sink so > > the fish are not gulping air while trying to eat the floating > flakes. > > > > My primary goldfish and tropical fish food is now Omega One brand. > The > > first three ingredients on Omega One Goldfish Pellets... Whole > Salmon, Whole > > Herring, Whole Shrimp... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Even other quality > brands like > > Hikari leave a lot to be desired. First three ingredients on Hikari > > Tropical Algae Wafers: Fish Meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat > flour. So > > first, check your foods. If the ingredients are primarily flours > and meals > > (not typical food items found in a pond or lake or stream, then > look at > > getting a better quality food like Omega One or one of the other > quality > > brands... there are many so check the ingredients. Omega One is not > > expensive and it's available at PetsMart (I happen to have a > PetsMart a > > block from my subdivision so it's convenient for me). > > > > I20also feed my goldfish veggies. I keep frozen green peas and > zucchini > > slices in my freezer for the goldfish. I was also given a partial > bag of > > frozen mixed vegetables and they ate them up too.. except for the > diced > > carrots. Maybe the carrots need to be blanched more to soften them > up more. > > > > > > Here's a page with a lot more info on feeding goldfish. > > http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> > > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html > > <http://www.thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishNutrition1.html> > > (page two > goes into > > more specifics on feeding). > > > > Here's a thread all about floaty goldfish and solutions. > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590 > > <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11590> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of redbackblack > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:58 PM0A> > To: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do my goldfish float? > > > > Yah, I know, bad question. But really, I have a couple of them who, > it > > appears, after eating ... they just cant stay down. Is this some > kind of > > bloat or swelling of the food? I've tried 3 different types of > food. Flakes > > and Pellets. Same, moreso with the flakes. One of them is starting > to get a > > white spot on his head from just giving up and floating - guess he > is drying > > out? Sometimes to the point where they go belly up. > > > > Advice? > > Thanks, Kelly _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 12:16:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34213	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

OOH! I like! And, oh yeah, it's the tube, not the cats, that I was thinking of strapping to the wall. *g* DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_W0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item390014962622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34214	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/9/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

Yep, my first thought on seeing that first setup was if that system gets one tiny crack, you'll have about a hundred gallons of water on the floor, not to mention all those fish trying to get along in what looks to me like 10G tanks. Now, the bio-elite and aquabridge look quite do-able. I'm going to try and get the one on eBay and extend the down tubing with some scrap Plexiglas that I have, because it does look awfully close to the surface. I'd like to be able to do a PWC without braking the airlock. I'm pretty sure I can find a 20G tank on Freecycle or Craig's List or at a thrift shop or garage sale. That would buy me enough time to save up for my dream tank. ;-) Woolworth's . . . what is it, about 15 years since the one near us disappeared? I know it's less than 20, because it was a few years after we bought our house. Woolworth's was THE department store in Saulte Saint Marie, Michigan, when we were in college. And my knuckles barely touch the ground at all. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:51 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks Geez Mike.. you are old. You remember Woolworth's. Ooops.. I just admitted that I know what a Woolworth's is also. Are they still around? We lost our last Woolworth's on Canal Street down here in N'Awlins a long time ago. Wikipedia says they closed them all down in 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._Woolworth_Company OK.. back to the topic... There will be a rude awakening for the fish that is in the bridge when evaporation in one of the tanks causes the surface level to drop down right below the bridge intake. When the siphon/vacuum effect is lost, the water in the bridge will go rushing into one of the tanks surprising the hell out of the fish in the bridge. LOL While on the topic, check out these others... This top link is one of the wilder tank bridges that I've seen. http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/ This one is interesting too. His article implies he has a canister filter suctioning from one tank and returning to the other tank so there is a water flow through the bridge... and it looks like it might be cat proof judging from the brackets and clamps used on the thing. http://www.bio-elite.com/waterbridge.htm http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/baqtrailaqki.html http://www.aqua-bridge.com/index2.html The one you found is a pretty good price for a DIY project. The time/materials it would take to make just one of these would cost more than the $20.00 total cost for the eBay item. Good find! DebR, Instead of trying to bridge the tanks, you could add a DIY sump to your tank and increase the water volume that way. Then the fish would stay in the current tank but the water from the main tank would flow down into the sump tank which would then have more filtration and also could have lots of live plants to help keep the water cleaner. This would require either a canister filter system and an overflow valve on the main tank. In retrospect, it would be less expensive to just save up your money for a BIG tank. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_W 0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item390014962 622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C2 40%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 <http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_ W0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item39001496 2622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50> I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34215	From: Lisa	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: If they can do it, why can't I?

To be honest I have no clear memories of the tank. I was too young, so I can't honestly say how big they actually got. My mum thinks the bala lived maybe 12 months, she's not sure. I saw a youtube video, (Not an entirely reliable source I know ) of someone who had two angels and a comet goldfish in a 20 gal long. Not that I'm saying that I am going to do the same, cause I know how big comets get, and after your reply angels. For example, this one has 2 german blue rams (1 male 1 female) 1 neon green gourami http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=XYFWsHVPnAk I like this set up. And keep in mind I have an additional 2 gal on top of this tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34216	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

If you can't get the same size/matching tank, you'll have to raise one of the tanks so the tops are level... or at least really close so the water levels can be the same level in both tanks. If you want to be able to do PWC's, you will have to extend the down tubes about 1/3rd the way down so you can remove 1/4th of the water and not risk the water level getting to close to the bottom of the intake. By vacuuming one tank and removing water from that tank, you'll also be removing water from the second tank so you will only want to vacuum long enough to remove 1/8th of the water from one tank, then move your siphon to the 2nd tank and vacuum the gravel in that tank for the next 1/8th. It would also be better to have a canister filter with the intake in one tank and the return in the other tank to keep water flowing through the tube and to keep the water parameters the same in both tanks. If you only have an HOB, you could attach a piece of clear tubing to the HOB intake and snake it over into the other tank so it still draws from that tank and then outflows into the tank that it is hanging on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks Yep, my first thought on seeing that first setup was if that system gets one tiny crack, you'll have about a hundred gallons of water on the floor, not to mention all those fish trying to get along in what looks to me like 10G tanks. Now, the bio-elite and aquabridge look quite do-able. I'm going to try and get the one on eBay and extend the down tubing with some scrap Plexiglas that I have, because it does look awfully close to the surface. I'd like to be able to do a PWC without braking the airlock. I'm pretty sure I can find a 20G tank on Freecycle or Craig's List or at a thrift shop or garage sale. That would buy me enough time to save up for my dream tank. ;-) Woolworth's . . . what is it, about 15 years since the one near us disappeared? I know it's less than 20, because it was a few years after we bought our house. Woolworth's was THE department store in Saulte Saint Marie, Michigan, when we were in college. And my knuckles barely touch the ground at all. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:51 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks Geez Mike.. you are old. You remember Woolworth's. Ooops.. I just admitted that I know what a Woolworth's is also. Are they still around? We lost our last Woolworth's on Canal Street down here in N'Awlins a long time ago. Wikipedia says they closed them all down in 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._Woolworth_Company <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._Woolworth_Company> OK.. back to the topic... There will be a rude awakening for the fish that is in the bridge when evaporation in one of the tanks causes the surface level to drop down right below the bridge intake. When the siphon/vacuum effect is lost, the water in the bridge will go rushing into one of the tanks surprising the hell out of the fish in the bridge. LOL While on the topic, check out these others... This top link is one of the wilder tank bridges that I've seen. http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/ <http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/> This one is interesting too. His article implies he has a canister filter suctioning from one tank and returning to the other tank so there is a water flow through the bridge... and it looks like it might be cat proof judging from the brackets and clamps used on the thing. http://www.bio-elite.com/waterbridge.htm <http://www.bio-elite.com/waterbridge.htm> http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/baqtrailaqki.html <http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/baqtrailaqki.html> http://www.aqua-bridge.com/index2.html <http://www.aqua-bridge.com/index2.html> The one you found is a pretty good price for a DIY project. The time/materials it would take to make just one of these would cost more than the $20.00 total cost for the eBay item. Good find! DebR, Instead of trying to bridge the tanks, you could add a DIY sump to your tank and increase the water volume that way. Then the fish would stay in the current tank but the water from the main tank would flow down into the sump tank which would then have more filtration and also could have lots of live plants to help keep the water cleaner. This would require either a canister filter system and an overflow valve on the main tank. In retrospect, it would be less expensive to just save up your money for a BIG tank. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_W <http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_ W> 0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item390014962 622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C2 40%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 <http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_ <http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_ <http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_ > > W0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item39001496 2622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50> I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 2:31:51 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34217	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank

Since this needs to be informational as well, will the tank be set up in your school or at one of your homes? In either case, you should set up the tank ASAP and start a "Fishless Cycle" (meaning NO fish) which will require you all to wear mad scientist hats for several weeks to a month or so while the tank is fishless cycling. This will involve adding ammonia to the tank and testing it for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc. on a daily basis. During this time, you will also learn your tap water baseline and can do more research on what kind of fish will work together long term in your tank. The fishless cycling process gets the nitrogen cycle going in a new tank, without fish, so you don't have to put the actual fish through the process. All you need is a master test kit ($20.00) and a pint or quart of plain ammonia (99 cents) to complete the fishless cycle and make the tank safe for fish without killing any of the fish in the process (so you don't have to worry about PETA coming after you). LOL If you go to my blog (link in my sig), on the "A to Z..." page, I have info on Fishless Cycling and other info especially for beginner to intermediate fish keepers. There are two free online tutorials that are good to take also. You could even keep a graph of the fishless cycling to show what is happening with the nitrogen cycle... similar to the one on this page... http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQualityCycling.html Like \\Steve// said, you really want to keep fish that will do well with your baseline tap water source so you don't have to get into trying to alter the chemistry of the water since this starts to make the hobby into a job. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank What is the pH of the water coming from your tap? What is it 24 hours later (same container left to sit after the initial measurement).? That will be the pH you have to work with. Choose your fish to fit the pH. You may be fortunate enough to be able to keep Amazonians, or you may need to look at the Rift Lakes in Africa for fish, or somewhere in between. The temperature you will want will be what the fish require. When choosing fish this is another factor to consider, you want fish that have intersecting temperature ranges so that everyone is comfortable. When you are first cycling the tank, you will need to test every day to ensure the cycle is progressing and to ensure you are adding the appropriate amount of ammonia. Once the tank is cycled and you start adding fish continue each day to ensure a stable tank for about a month, then you can start backing off to once a week, or less, depending on the stability of your tap water and tank. Planting the tank depends on the fish that you will have in it. Some fish will mow down plants faster than you can plant them, others will not touch them. There are a number of "easy' plants to keep, again, depending on your water chemistry. If plants are out, there are any number of ways to aquascape the tank. In any geographic region, except for temperature extremes, there is a wide diversity of fish to chose from. The question is more one of what is available. This can vary from store to store, and you can open your horizons to availability if there is a fish club, society, or association near you. There you should be able to have access to stuff not found in stores. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > sunfish3714 > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank > > > Hey, guys. > > I was thinking about creating a tropical tank with some kids in > my crew at my high school. I have had coolwater tanks with fish species > from the perch, sunfish, and minnow families. I never really had > anything that required a heater. So, I have a few questions. > > Where should I keep my pH? I was told that the temperature should > be staying around 74-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that correct? How often > should I check for nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia? Where would you > suggest that I get the chemical tests for those things, if you would > suggest chemical tests? Would you suggest a planted tank, knowing that > we all are new to tropical tanks? Are there any plants that are > relatively easy to maintain? We need to make this an informational tank > that is "pretty" as well. I had envisioned an Amazon basin themed tank. > What are your thoughts on this? Is there any other place in the world > that has a great diversity of species to choose from? What are your > thoughts on this? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 3:09:09 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

Awww.. I was picturing something like this... only with a cat. ;-) http://www.bestofpps.com/wp-content/uploads/baby-strapped-to-wall.thumbnail. jpg LOL. That's the first image that came up with a Google Image search of 'cat strapped to a wall'. You would think someone would have done something similar to a cat but nothing found with Google... but lots of other stuff done to them. Of course, I turned on Safe Search.. no telling what might have come up with that search otherwise. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks OOH! I like! And, oh yeah, it's the tube, not the cats, that I was thinking of strapping to the wall. *g* DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_W 0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item390014962 622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C2 40%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 <http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_ W0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item39001496 2622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50> I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 3:19:26 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34219	From: Jennie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

We bought a new thermatat for our home it has an EPA setting to save energy so the house gets to 65 degrees at  night and 70 degrees during the day. So my fish tank heaters to work more keeping the tanks, I have 3, at 76 degrees. Jennie   --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 2:07 PM Is your aquarium in a room that's not room temperature? or do you keep your house temps low? I can't see needing to insulate your aquarium unless you have it in a cold room where the heater would have to work harder to keep it at a higher temp. If you don't use a heater and keep it in a room that's in the 70's then perhaps insulating it may help a little so that the heat doesn't flucuate as much when the room temps drop. But if you're using a heater and the tank is indoors then insulation may not help a whole lot, but I could be wrong, I'm not an expert on insulation LOL. Amber jjmiltner wrote: > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it > on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I > was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a > good idea? > > Jennie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34220	From: Jennie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

Well thats good to know. I have been wrapping my tanks with foam insulation at night because it gets below 65 at night in the house. Thanks Jennie       -- On Tue, 12/9/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:00 PM I've used it as a backing for aquariums before, but never actually used its adhesive to put it on, just tape. The adhesive is pretty strong, and once it is stuck, it is stuck, unless you use some pretty nasty chemicals to get it off. The "insulating" properties come from reflecting solar radiation back, and not letting a lot of it into your hose. The film and the adhesive have no insulating properties other than that. It will not keep the heat in your aquarium. FWIW, in my mis-spent youth, I worked at a factory that made the stuff. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > jjmiltner > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it > on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I > was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a > good idea? > > Jennie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34221	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it appears now to be time to medicate. There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the fungus. You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- Elodea and Water Clover. One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or erroneous readings of test results). Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal infections. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we were doing. > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her dorsal fin and near one eye. > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the bigger > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a little (or > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough surface > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live plants are > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. Cooler > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will start to turn > around soon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC yesterday) > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I can see > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look into an > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated carbon will > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does not remove > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- carbon filter. > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and I would > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it simply isn't > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that you'll be > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my Betta tank was > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or 2G of water. > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to worry about > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for simplicity... > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a weekly basis. > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the world, I > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the goldfish tank. > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> or a $5.00 - > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> would last > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator will > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and changing 25% > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... probably much > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the Britta. The 16 > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water but it's > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the TopFin 8 oz. > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from whomever I'm > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for shipping > than the product... at least not to me. > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without using the > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the future. Test > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will break the > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through a Brita > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll search down > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading is right > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I don't add > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water and > dechlorinate with tablets? > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration helps Raven > any. > > Santa Baby! > Put that big tank under my tree > for me! > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other > surface areas of the tank. > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and > frequent PWC's. > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the > bottom most of the time. > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not > quite 20ppm > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a > 20G tank > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's > definitely a 20G. > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's > working. > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my > answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when > trying to dump it. > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and > the goldfish! ;-) > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to > look for. > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > (You'll also see the > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again > tomorrow > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would > equate to a GH of 10. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per > G salt) > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- eye look, > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > treatment.. right? > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the > water to your tank. > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap > water. > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Tuesday night Check in: > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest > version. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Today's Check in: > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow > night. > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test > for everything tomorrow. > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding > anything else to your tank. > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any > nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > Malachite green: > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a > maximum of four treatments. > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and > gills. > (END SNIP) > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store > employees or owners. LOL > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the > fish. > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage > and read those posts. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have > started on the body. > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the > company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, > but never got around to it. > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know > when or how that one died. > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the > goldfish. > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me > sometimes, lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > Tested on: 12/9/2008 5:34:19 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34222	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

From the threads I've been reading on this, it appears you are thinking of a "tunnel," or loop, over the abutted ends of two tanks -- and while this is do-able, as you rightly suggested knowing that "goldfish do reach 6" (actually, fancy goldfish can reach 8" to 10"), yes that would have to be one wide tube -- which therein creates the problem. To "join" this minimum 6" diameter tube of water from one tank to the other, you would need to submerse it in one of the tanks, close off the end you are lifting over the tank end and submerse that end in the other tank (then uncap it), all without allowing any air to enter it. Not too easy of an accomplishment. There is one other method I can think of that's worth a try, although I don't know if it will work. You would position this joining tube in place adjoining the two tanks (with nothing but air in it), and insert a length of airline tubing up into in from one of the ends, up to the highest point inside the tunnel, and draw the air out of it with your lungs as the water rises in it from both ends. As water is heavy, you may not be able to draw it up this high to completely fill the tube. You would have to get as much of the air out as possible, ideally all the air, although a very small amount shouldn't break the syphon effect. The action of a canister filter, as Lenny suggested, flowing from one tank to the other will active this syphon, allowing for identical water parameters in both tanks (without a flow, they can be somewhat different). I'd still like to see a "Cat Restrainer" mounted to the wall, in action, as any meddling by a feline would cause to operate (LOL). I'm picturing a possible "Garfield" comic scenario. While this tunnel concept may seem like a good idea to most of us, you have to keep in mind that any fish may not seem so inclined as to take this tunnel trip (however "neat"" it may seem) to join their friends and it may remain unused by them. It will double your water column capacity, which will aid in reducing growth inhibition in your fish and better ease of maintainence -- even if they all remain in one tank, but again, a through-flow would be necessary for these benefits. I've seen other tank-joining methods done, such as cutting out most of one end panel of one tank, butting it up against the 2nd tank and tracing that outline on the 2nd tank. The second tank's end panel is then also cut to identically match the first tank and silicon is applied to the remaining surfaces as the tanks are joined together (but not before a quick filing to eliminate any sharp edges). These end panels are not removed entirely, in case one wonders, but retained to add stability to each tank as well as allowing for easiest sealing between tanks. Often (the few times its been done), about an inch of glass is allowed to remain as the sealing surfaces, with the rest being removed -- its like having one long tank. Variations of this have been done, including the elimination of any supporting material (glass) at the top of these ends, allowing for a clean sweep of a net from one tank to the other, but most tanks joined in this manner retain at least an inch of glass all the way around -- including over the top of the opening. The corners of these openings are best rounded to prevent any cracking from wanting to occur off of a right-angle cut. Best results here are had when first drilling the glass where the corners are going to be, even though drilling is not absolutely necessary. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. > > I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. > > Hmmmm . . . another thought . . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34223	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

Agreed Len BUT..................................... I was hoping someone on list either has one or using for a while.  Performance? Heater maintenance?  Do they require cleaning?  What's the "scoop" on this heater? Anyone have one?   Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 11:03 PM I'm betting that the Rena SmartHeater will fit on the intake of an AquaClear also.. as well as most other HOB's. You would have to measure and compare the OD (outside diameter) on both systems but just eyeballing the intake tube for the AC-50 and the intake tube for my XP1 and they appear to be the same outside diameter... meaning this device would likely work on any of the AC models although I do not have any larger than the AC-50 so I'm not sure if their larger models have larger intake tubes. Since this Rena SmartHeater advertises fitting on the XP-1 or the Rena HOB, I'm sure it will fit on most HOB's with the round intake tube. One of my Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheels, the Model 200, has more of a rounded corner rectangular intake tube so it wouldn't fit on that model but all of the HOB's that I've had with the round intakes have basically the same size intake on them so I'm sure Rena would have made their SmartHeater to fit on as many other brands/models as possible... otherwise that wouldn't be very "Smart". LOL I guess that's why Rena had their other heaters on clearance prices because they want to push their new SmartHeaters. That is a good idea to incorporate the heater as sliding over the intake tube so it's one less potential "eyesore" in the back of the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Hi Len, The reason why I was leaning on the Rena was this device: http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? pcatid=18444 <http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? pcatid=18444> I have never seen anything like it but in occurred to me that it would allow for a better view inside the tank without all the extra plumbling? Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 12:47 PM If rear space is your primary issue, remember that an HOB does not have to be on the back. It can be on one of the sides. Would that make it an HOS? (Seems appropriate since it's Christmas time.. HO, HO, HO = HO'S ;-)) I've also seen the acronym HOT (Hang On Tank) used but HOB is the most common acronym for hang on back power filters. Of course, hanging it on the side presents issues if you were planning on using a standard (non-custom) cover or hood and lighting. If it's only a 29G, I think I'd go with an AquaClear since even a Rena Filstar XP-1 would be a lot of filtration for a 29G tank. An XP-1 is rated for 250 gallons per hour http://www.rena. net/Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 346 so unless you are going with fish that like a LOT of water movement... like fish that come from a fast flowing stream... then an appropriate sized HOB would be better.. I am not familiar with a canister filter that would be small enough for a 29G tank but there is a way to throttle back the water flow on the XP-1 with one of the attachments that came with it... at least I seem to remember that attachment being an option. I did not install that option when hooking up either of my XP's and the original boxes/parts have been in storage since my move after Hurricane Katrina. You'll see a part called an "Outflow Regulator" listed on this page so I'm guessing that is what was included in the original packaging. http://www.planetre na.com/Filstar- Rena-Parts. html Since behind the tank space is one of your concerns, the plumbing for the Rena could also be inserted into the tank from the sides so the 1" diameter plastic parts that go over the top of the tank frame could go into the tank on one end or one tube on each end... which ever suits your aesthetics and filtration preferences. Of course, if you have baseboards on your walls, the stand would probably be at least 3/4" to 1" away from the actual wall anyhow so the 1" tubes and plastic parts would easily fit behind the tank also. See if you can elicit more info from the Elves (maybe a cookies and milk bribe) about exactly what size tank Santa is bringing.... but then, that might ruin the surprise so maybe this bribe isn't a good thing... and make sure the Elf isn't named Blagojevich or Edwards as the F.B.I. might be listening. It seems Illinois is trying to compete with my beloved Louisiana for the most crooked Governor award (turn on Fox News if you don't know what this means). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Good Morning! I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol'bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger. The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn't know anything about keeping fish! Hey! Give him a break....... .he can't cover all the bases! However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol'bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want. Now that opens some doors, to say the least. As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall. But I'm wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one? In other words, are they worth the extra money? The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point. Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. Your Thought's Please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:03:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34224	From: Jennie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an plastic aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at night with insulation. Thanks Jennie   --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective film to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating up the inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage and it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like acrylic has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron thick piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. It might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I doubt it comes close to 50% insulative value. If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes and businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like fiberglass, styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air layer, it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test this by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain glass and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a nickel, there's none. Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in chemical composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much different chemical composition. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] window film Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good idea? Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:23:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34225	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

1" form board available at Home Depot or Lowe's will work nicely.  4 x 8 sheets are available or use "paneling kits".  They are sometimes, pink or light blue or white.  These are a bundle of the same product cut in 2' x 4' lengths for fitting between faring strips when installing paneling in a room.  Either glue or tape to the sides and back of your tank and believe me, it will be insulated and cheaply.   Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 10:00 PM I've used it as a backing for aquariums before, but never actually used its adhesive to put it on, just tape. The adhesive is pretty strong, and once it is stuck, it is stuck, unless you use some pretty nasty chemicals to get it off. The "insulating" properties come from reflecting solar radiation back, and not letting a lot of it into your hose. The film and the adhesive have no insulating properties other than that. It will not keep the heat in your aquarium. FWIW, in my mis-spent youth, I worked at a factory that made the stuff. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > jjmiltner > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it > on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I > was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a > good idea? > > Jennie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34226	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Eheim website and new tank

Thanks so very much for this posting!  If they are treating you like this, I think I'll give them a "pass" and only consider Aqua  Clear or a Rena Canister.   Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim website and new tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 9:56 PM I'm starting to wonder how well they manager their website at Eheim.com. I placed an order this weekend and also emailed them, so far they haven't approved my order or responded. I would have expected them to at least put my order through the system by now ;) I want my parts dag nabbit, LOL. I have only found one place online that sells the double tap that I need for my particular model, and that's amazon.com. I suppose I could order from amazon if eheim never responds. Also my hubby got me a quarantine tank (10 gallon setup from walmart) today. Apparently it went on sale to $25 and they don't plan on ordering any more, too bad they never bothered to order any of the 55 gallon setups :( I have the little filter for the 10 gallon running on my 125 gallon right now to get it cycled. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34227	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

Folks, somewhere, somehow, someone has posted pictures of fish swimming from room to room on our groups picture section!  I'm sorry I can't provide a link but I do remember seeing it.  Apparently the tanks are connected by long clear plastic tubes.  I don't think its a joke as it looked real to me.  I was over there trying to get some ideas for my own tank by viewing what others had done.   Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:08 PM You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) http://cgi.ebay com/aquarium- terrarium- bridge-cleaning- frame-tank- multible_ W0QQitemZ3900149 62622QQcmdZViewI temQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_ 0?hash=item39001 4962622&_ trksid=p3286. c0.m14&_trkparms =72%3A1205% 7C66%3A2% 7C65%3A12% 7C39%3A1% 7C240%3A1318% 7C301%3A0% 7C293%3A1% 7C294%3A50 I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@ prodigy.net> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34228	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

Hmmm, fish swimming from room to room! Are you sure you weren't looking at a pic of Lenny's fish after Katrina struck <g>? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > >   > Folks, somewhere, somehow, someone has posted pictures of fish swimming from room to room on our groups picture section!  I'm sorry I can't provide a link but I do remember seeing it.  Apparently the tanks are connected by long clear plastic tubes.  I don't think its a joke as it looked real to me.  I was over there trying to get some ideas for my own tank by viewing what others had done. >   > Bill > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:08 PM > > > > > > > You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) > > http://cgi.ebay com/aquarium- terrarium- bridge-cleaning- frame- tank- multible_ W0QQitemZ3900149 62622QQcmdZViewI temQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_ 0?hash=item39001 4962622&_ trksid=p3286. c0.m14&_trkparms =72%3A1205% 7C66%3A2% 7C65%3A12% 7C39%3A1% 7C240% 3A1318% 7C301%3A0% 7C293%3A1% 7C294%3A50 > > I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. > > As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@ prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks > > This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. > > I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. > > Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34229	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

No Sir!   And before you ask........................................................... I was drinking COFFEE at the time!   Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Combining tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:12 AM Hmmm, fish swimming from room to room! Are you sure you weren't looking at a pic of Lenny's fish after Katrina struck <g>? Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > >   > Folks, somewhere, somehow, someone has posted pictures of fish swimming from room to room on our groups picture section!  I'm sorry I can't provide a link but I do remember seeing it.  Apparently the tanks are connected by long clear plastic tubes.  I don't think its a joke as it looked real to me.  I was over there trying to get some ideas for my own tank by viewing what others had done. >   > Bill > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:08 PM > > > > > > > You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) > > http://cgi.ebay com/aquarium- terrarium- bridge-cleaning- frame- tank- multible_ W0QQitemZ3900149 62622QQcmdZViewI temQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_ 0?hash=item39001 4962622&_ trksid=p3286. c0.m14&_trkparms =72%3A1205% 7C66%3A2% 7C65%3A12% 7C39%3A1% 7C240% 3A1318% 7C301%3A0% 7C293%3A1% 7C294%3A50 > > I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. > > As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@ prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks > > This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. > > I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. > > Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34230	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Question For Our Moderator's?

Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. When you go to these group sites there is always a link on the left hand side of the page titled �Members�. � If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, all members of the list. � Question?� Where is ours?� Ok, why?� Because I have been here for a while now but having the bad memory that I do, and subject to more �senior moments� than I care to admit to, I can�t remember the exact date I joined, this �Members� list would help. � Just a thought, � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34231	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Connecting Fish Tanks?

This was the link from our photo section:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/list   The album is listed under this name -------in case the link does not work:  FisHighway   See Ray!  I told you I was drinking coffee!  Another bad habit!  I'm always drinking coffee.   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34232	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to approach 20ppm every couple of days. I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, but I won't assume it will stay that way. I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it appears now to be time to medicate. There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the fungus. You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- Elodea and Water Clover. One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or erroneous readings of test results). Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal infections. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we were doing. > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her dorsal fin and near one eye. > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the bigger > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a little (or > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough surface > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live plants are > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. Cooler > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will start to turn > around soon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC yesterday) > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I can see > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look into an > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated carbon will > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does not remove > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- carbon filter. > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and I would > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it simply isn't > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that you'll be > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my Betta tank was > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or 2G of water. > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to worry about > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for simplicity... > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a weekly basis. > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the world, I > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the goldfish tank. > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> or a $5.00 - > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> would last > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator will > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and changing 25% > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... probably much > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the Britta. The 16 > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water but it's > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the TopFin 8 oz. > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from whomever I'm > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for shipping > than the product... at least not to me. > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without using the > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the future. Test > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will break the > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through a Brita > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll search down > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading is right > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I don't add > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water and > dechlorinate with tablets? > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration helps Raven > any. > > Santa Baby! > Put that big tank under my tree > for me! > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other > surface areas of the tank. > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and > frequent PWC's. > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the > bottom most of the time. > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not > quite 20ppm > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a > 20G tank > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's > definitely a 20G. > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's > working. > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my > answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when > trying to dump it. > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and > the goldfish! ;-) > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to > look for. > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > (You'll also see the > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again > tomorrow > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would > equate to a GH of 10. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per > G salt) > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- eye look, > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > treatment.. right? > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the > water to your tank. > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap > water. > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Tuesday night Check in: > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest > version. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Today's Check in: > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow > night. > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test > for everything tomorrow. > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding > anything else to your tank. > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any > nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > Malachite green: > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a > maximum of four treatments. > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and > gills. > (END SNIP) > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store > employees or owners. LOL > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the > fish. > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage > and read those posts. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have > started on the body. > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the > company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, > but never got around to it. > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know > when or how that one died. > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the > goldfish. > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me > sometimes, lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > Tested on: 12/9/2008 5:34:19 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34233	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

You know what. I've had good luck with simply putting two large towels over the tank at night. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film Oh.. this reminds me. I already answered this post a little earlier but if you really wanted to provide thermal insulation to the tank, you could get a 4'x8' sheet of the pink or white styrofoam (1" thick) and cut panels to fit on the tank. It's what people do in very cold areas to help protect their tanks in the event of a catastrophic winter-time power failure. Putting a sheet of this down first and then setting the tank on top will insulate the bottom of the tank. As I said earlier, using this type of film on car windows or home windows that get a lot of sunlight will help keep some of the sun light created heat but it will not do much for the actual ambient/thermal temperature exchange that takes place. There is a clear plastic film that people will apply to the inside of the window box so that it creates an airspace between the outside window and the inside room and that will do a lot to keep cold out and warmth in but that film is taped to the wall around the window box opening and then a hair dryer is used to make the clear plastic film shrink to make a nice tight mostly clear view in case you still want to open the curtains to see out. This works similarly to adding storm windows to the outside of your normal windows so there is a 1/2" to 1" gap between the existing windows and the storm windows so that dead air space acts as an insulator. Man.. I'm starting to feel like I'm working now with all this home repair/renovation/handyman talk going on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] window film Is your aquarium in a room that's not room temperature? or do you keep your house temps low? I can't see needing to insulate your aquarium unless you have it in a cold room where the heater would have to work harder to keep it at a higher temp. If you don't use a heater and keep it in a room that's in the 70's then perhaps insulating it may help a little so that the heat doesn't flucuate as much when the room temps drop. But if you're using a heater and the tank is indoors then insulation may not help a whole lot, but I could be wrong, I'm not an expert on insulation LOL. Amber jjmiltner wrote: > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of > the heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is > on. I was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it > was a good idea? > > Jennie > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:37:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34234	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank

You really need some good books on the subject. You should get fish that will adapt to your local water conditions - hardness as well as ph. A local fishstore that keeps its fish in tap water is your best resource on that, and also, their fish will better survive the transition to the tap water in your tank. (Of course you use a product that removes chlorine, chloramines and associated ammonia.) The nitrogen wastes ened to be checked every day or two until the nitrogen cycle gets going and then every week is fine unless there is a problem. Yes, most tropical fish need water 75 to 80 degrees. A couple of heaters is your bet there. In general a bigger tank is easier to maintain than a small one. So start with 20 gallons, 30 even better, not 5 or 10. Getting a fish tank going is a very educational project if your school biology section will let you get one going. Petsmart sells what you need to get an aquarium going, but you can often get better deals online. Drs. Foster and Smith, Pet Solutions, Marineland. And others. I'm pretty new to tropical tanks and I elected not to do plants, atleast for now. I decorated with plastic plants. Make sure your gravel and any rocks don't react chemically with the water - that's a major problem with any sort of limestone or coral-based rock. You have to be careful that your gravel taht you buy at the fish store looks smooth and rounded and says it's chemically nonreactive. It may be coated to make it that way; that's OK. If you're feeling adventurous and want to put the time into it there are cheaper ways to find gravel. An aquarium is a major time committment, and you have to be willing to keep on cleaning the tank, testing the water, and feeding the fish. If you do get tired of it you can usually recover a quarter to a third of your investment pretty quickly on Craigs List. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "sunfish3714" <sunfish3714@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank Hey, guys. I was thinking about creating a tropical tank with some kids in my crew at my high school. I have had coolwater tanks with fish species from the perch, sunfish, and minnow families. I never really had anything that required a heater. So, I have a few questions. Where should I keep my pH? I was told that the temperature should be staying around 74-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that correct? How often should I check for nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia? Where would you suggest that I get the chemical tests for those things, if you would suggest chemical tests? Would you suggest a planted tank, knowing that we all are new to tropical tanks? Are there any plants that are relatively easy to maintain? We need to make this an informational tank that is "pretty" as well. I had envisioned an Amazon basin themed tank. What are your thoughts on this? Is there any other place in the world that has a great diversity of species to choose from? What are your thoughts on this? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34235	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank

Just so you know, whether to cycle a tank with fish or without them is a major matter of controversy. Tanks never WERE cycled without fish. We know how to do it now, but if you want ti get your tank going before the end of teh semester you might want to start with fish! Lennie is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY big on fishless cycling, and if you let the opinionatedness of people on tropical fish lists get to you, you'll give up in a day! However a routine newbie way to invite catastrophe is to start with a tank full of fish, or even several of the prettiest fish in the fish store. Start with two or three hardy fish like danios. There are several other good ones as well. Danios are not the prettiest fish but they are lively, and they'll survive your nitrogen waste spikes. When your nitrogen waste levels even out a month to six weeks depending on whether you used a bacterial starter, you can add more fish two or three at a time. Danios come in several varieties. Plain ordinary, larger fins, leopard spotted, pink, and psychedelic colors. I started with the plain ol' striped ones and now I won't get anything else (except teh tetras). You can speed up the process just slightly with a bacterial starter. Their effectiveness varies directly with price and difficulty of obtaining them. Freshwater TLC comes across as a goofy product but works as well as any of the inexpensive ones. I bought one of the expensive refrigerated ones and it didn't do all that much. Be sure you do your homework before you select your fish. Fish vary a great deal in water conditions, what fish they get along with, and some of those little fish in the pet store get to be a foot or two long. That's especially true of goldfish. Don't know if tha'ts a foot or two long, but they get big, and they also put out an extraordinary amount of waste relative to their size. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:09 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank Since this needs to be informational as well, will the tank be set up in your school or at one of your homes? In either case, you should set up the tank ASAP and start a "Fishless Cycle" (meaning NO fish) which will require you all to wear mad scientist hats for several weeks to a month or so while the tank is fishless cycling. This will involve adding ammonia to the tank and testing it for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc. on a daily basis. During this time, you will also learn your tap water baseline and can do more research on what kind of fish will work together long term in your tank. The fishless cycling process gets the nitrogen cycle going in a new tank, without fish, so you don't have to put the actual fish through the process. All you need is a master test kit ($20.00) and a pint or quart of plain ammonia (99 cents) to complete the fishless cycle and make the tank safe for fish without killing any of the fish in the process (so you don't have to worry about PETA coming after you). LOL If you go to my blog (link in my sig), on the "A to Z..." page, I have info on Fishless Cycling and other info especially for beginner to intermediate fish keepers. There are two free online tutorials that are good to take also. You could even keep a graph of the fishless cycling to show what is happening with the nitrogen cycle... similar to the one on this page... http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQualityCycling.html Like \\Steve// said, you really want to keep fish that will do well with your baseline tap water source so you don't have to get into trying to alter the chemistry of the water since this starts to make the hobby into a job. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank What is the pH of the water coming from your tap? What is it 24 hours later (same container left to sit after the initial measurement).? That will be the pH you have to work with. Choose your fish to fit the pH. You may be fortunate enough to be able to keep Amazonians, or you may need to look at the Rift Lakes in Africa for fish, or somewhere in between. The temperature you will want will be what the fish require. When choosing fish this is another factor to consider, you want fish that have intersecting temperature ranges so that everyone is comfortable. When you are first cycling the tank, you will need to test every day to ensure the cycle is progressing and to ensure you are adding the appropriate amount of ammonia. Once the tank is cycled and you start adding fish continue each day to ensure a stable tank for about a month, then you can start backing off to once a week, or less, depending on the stability of your tap water and tank. Planting the tank depends on the fish that you will have in it. Some fish will mow down plants faster than you can plant them, others will not touch them. There are a number of "easy' plants to keep, again, depending on your water chemistry. If plants are out, there are any number of ways to aquascape the tank. In any geographic region, except for temperature extremes, there is a wide diversity of fish to chose from. The question is more one of what is available. This can vary from store to store, and you can open your horizons to availability if there is a fish club, society, or association near you. There you should be able to have access to stuff not found in stores. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > sunfish3714 > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank > > > Hey, guys. > > I was thinking about creating a tropical tank with some kids in > my crew at my high school. I have had coolwater tanks with fish species > from the perch, sunfish, and minnow families. I never really had > anything that required a heater. So, I have a few questions. > > Where should I keep my pH? I was told that the temperature should > be staying around 74-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that correct? How often > should I check for nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia? Where would you > suggest that I get the chemical tests for those things, if you would > suggest chemical tests? Would you suggest a planted tank, knowing that > we all are new to tropical tanks? Are there any plants that are > relatively easy to maintain? We need to make this an informational tank > that is "pretty" as well. I had envisioned an Amazon basin themed tank. > What are your thoughts on this? Is there any other place in the world > that has a great diversity of species to choose from? What are your > thoughts on this? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 3:09:09 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34236	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

Bill, The Members selection in the left-hand menu is there on the Group Site -- at least it is on my Home page. If its not on your Home page, I can't figure why (unless that feature is only available to Moderators); you of course need to be signed in, but I'm assuming you already are when looking for it. Perhaps another Moderator could fill you in further. You joined on October 11, 2008. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. > When you go to these group sites there is always a link on > the left hand side of the page titled "Members". >   > If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, > all members of the list. >   > Question?  Where is ours?  Ok, why?  Because I have been > here for a while now but having the bad memory that I do, > and subject to more "senior moments" than I care to admit to, > I can't remember the exact date I joined, this "Members" list > would help. >   > Just a thought, >   > Bill > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34237	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: classroom aquarium

As a suggestion to the person thinking of starting a classroom aquarium, a suggestion... If you contact your local Department of Natural Resources - they have a slightly different agency name in every state - you may be able to get students involved with stocking fish. In Alaska you could get all the supplies, and a handful of salmon eggs, from the nearest hatchery. If the school had money, buy a chiller for the tank - it still had to be wrapped in that insulation Lenny's describing until the eggs hatched because of light and temperature. Schools that were not so well heeled, we used a tiny tank inside a dorm sized refridgerator. I guess in other parts of the country the fish are not expecting such cool temperatures. After your eggs grow up, the kids go on a field trip to release the babies in an appropriate location. A great way to learn about local environment. Think globally - act locally. Also there are all these other lessons that can be taught about what the fish need out in the real world to survive. Habitat protection. Also, since they were usually released in the spring, no worries about who will keep them alive during summer break. And with HS students - not as many of the tears at the fishies going-away.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34238	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Air Pumps?

Can I please ask for recommendations on air pumps.  One for a single tank of 29 gallons and that is reliable?  Sorry I forgot to add this to my previous postings this morning.   Another Senior Moment!   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34239	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Cloudy water

Does anyone have any tips on how to keep the water in my tank from getting so cloudy, without changing the water?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34240	From: James	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Betta Issues

How old was he? I also agree that your water company could have changed the water. When I do a water change I add water conditioner all the time. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Gregg <greggb57@...> wrote: > > Hi Steve, Amber, > > There are no abnormal signs on the body at all. No bloating, no marks, no > sign of fungal or bacterial infection. Even the color is good. The Betta > looks fine other than being quite dead. (Sounds like the Monty Python "Dead > Parrot" sketch.) I have fed them commercial Betta pellets and the occasional > small krill and I have seen them eating. > > It used to be that Bettas were fairly easy for me to keep. It's just been in > the last few years that I've had this problem. I'm starting to wonder if > there are genetic problems in the commercial breeding programs, like there > are for dogs and cats. > > -- > Gregg Bender > Director - Dogwood Sheltie Rescue > www.vadsr.org > > "Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of > a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to > the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." > Martin Luther King Jr. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34241	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still considered within acceptable limits. The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can take more but not by a whole lot. The general question of whether you can add medications while there is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2752208> or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2754035> > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > (You'll also > see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her (?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock > solution > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock > solution > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs > of > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution > uses 20 > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg > malachite per > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > Higher dose only > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 > ml stock > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other > day for a > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > every three > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of > stock > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only > be used with > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to > a wound, > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's > eyes and > > gills. > > (END SNIP) > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of > 25% PWC's > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally > treated > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove > the rest. > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > will be the > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > this fresh > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > their > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. > were you > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > interdiction or > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help > with your > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > treatment. > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt > but DO NOT > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > treatment unless > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's > OK. It's > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from > a very > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet > store > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > fish a 24 > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > gallon), which is > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a > dose of 1 > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this > salt in a > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the > tank, > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added > 6 > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to > the > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, > add another > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 > hours > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons per > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting > your > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish > to adjust > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if > and/or when > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would > then add 15 > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add > it back > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one > after the > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a > chance to > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > happening to the > > fish. > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better > and it's also > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like > I did with > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my > previous > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to > the webpage > > and read those posts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this > is under > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few > new white > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems > to have > > started on the body. > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that > I can't get > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning > salt, so I > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G > tank, > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > times 12 hours > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > therapeutic > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did > see on the > > company website that they can be used together). The problem is > that they > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is > that > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank > is, yet? > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll > retest > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > Nitrate: >10 & > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish > are in now. > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were > all gone by > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least > another 6 > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change > and fewer > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was > run for a > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned > off and my > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > components on eBay, > > but never got around to it. > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > arrived in a > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > back problems > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they > needed a new > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about > a year in > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > don't know > > when or how that one died. > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and > then > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I > believe the > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning > was done. > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > sponge and > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I > picked up a > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that > it didn't > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > biofilter, but > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's > enough > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came > with the > > goldfish. > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does > that to me > > sometimes, lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > > Tested on: 12/9/2008 5:34:19 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34242	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

Check your mail direct.   Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 12:37 PM Bill, The Members selection in the left-hand menu is there on the Group Site -- at least it is on my Home page. If its not on your Home page, I can't figure why (unless that feature is only available to Moderators); you of course need to be signed in, but I'm assuming you already are when looking for it. Perhaps another Moderator could fill you in further. You joined on October 11, 2008. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. > When you go to these group sites there is always a link on > the left hand side of the page titled "Members". >   > If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, > all members of the list. >   > Question?  Where is ours?  Ok, why?  Because I have been > here for a while now but having the bad memory that I do, > and subject to more "senior moments" than I care to admit to, > I can't remember the exact date I joined, this "Members" list > would help. >   > Just a thought, >   > Bill > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34243	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

I could see myself trying to do the cut-out method and winding up with two useless tanks after I crack the sides I'm trying to cut. I don't think the bridge method would work for full grown fish, but as an in-between phase it would increase the water volume enough to let the fish reach a decent size. I think I could get the air out with tubing as long as I can pinch off the tubing between breaths. Of course the cat factor still dictates the final decision. The aquarium is like kitty TV right now. I can just imagine the reaction if fish were to start rising out of one tank and heading for another. Yeah, I kind of figured I'd need to have the uptake of the filter in one tank and the outflow in the other. With a second 20G, I'd probably want a stronger filter, anyway, or else one filter on each tank, but one in each won't move the water in the bridge, so I'd have to do the same thing with two as with one. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:09 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Combining tanks From the threads I've been reading on this, it appears you are thinking of a "tunnel," or loop, over the abutted ends of two tanks -- and while this is do-able, as you rightly suggested knowing that "goldfish do reach 6" (actually, fancy goldfish can reach 8" to 10"), yes that would have to be one wide tube -- which therein creates the problem. To "join" this minimum 6" diameter tube of water from one tank to the other, you would need to submerse it in one of the tanks, close off the end you are lifting over the tank end and submerse that end in the other tank (then uncap it), all without allowing any air to enter it. Not too easy of an accomplishment. There is one other method I can think of that's worth a try, although I don't know if it will work. You would position this joining tube in place adjoining the two tanks (with nothing but air in it), and insert a length of airline tubing up into in from one of the ends, up to the highest point inside the tunnel, and draw the air out of it with your lungs as the water rises in it from both ends. As water is heavy, you may not be able to draw it up this high to completely fill the tube. You would have to get as much of the air out as possible, ideally all the air, although a very small amount shouldn't break the syphon effect. The action of a canister filter, as Lenny suggested, flowing from one tank to the other will active this syphon, allowing for identical water parameters in both tanks (without a flow, they can be somewhat different). I'd still like to see a "Cat Restrainer" mounted to the wall, in action, as any meddling by a feline would cause to operate (LOL). I'm picturing a possible "Garfield" comic scenario. While this tunnel concept may seem like a good idea to most of us, you have to keep in mind that any fish may not seem so inclined as to take this tunnel trip (however "neat"" it may seem) to join their friends and it may remain unused by them. It will double your water column capacity, which will aid in reducing growth inhibition in your fish and better ease of maintainence -- even if they all remain in one tank, but again, a through-flow would be necessary for these benefits. I've seen other tank-joining methods done, such as cutting out most of one end panel of one tank, butting it up against the 2nd tank and tracing that outline on the 2nd tank. The second tank's end panel is then also cut to identically match the first tank and silicon is applied to the remaining surfaces as the tanks are joined together (but not before a quick filing to eliminate any sharp edges). These end panels are not removed entirely, in case one wonders, but retained to add stability to each tank as well as allowing for easiest sealing between tanks. Often (the few times its been done), about an inch of glass is allowed to remain as the sealing surfaces, with the rest being removed -- its like having one long tank. Variations of this have been done, including the elimination of any supporting material (glass) at the top of these ends, allowing for a clean sweep of a net from one tank to the other, but most tanks joined in this manner retain at least an inch of glass all the way around -- including over the top of the opening. The corners of these openings are best rounded to prevent any cracking from wanting to occur off of a right-angle cut. Best results here are had when first drilling the glass where the corners are going to be, even though drilling is not absolutely necessary. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. > > I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. > > Hmmmm . . . another thought . . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34244	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

Here are the final results of the water baseline test: Values reading right out of the tap: KH: no reading PH: 8.2 Ammonia: 0.5 Nitrite: 0 Nitrates: 0 After 24 hours: KH: no reading PH: 7.0 Ammonia: 0.5 Nitrite: 0 Nitrates: 0 After 48 hours: KH: no reading PH: 7.0 Ammonia: 0.5 Nitrite: 0 Nitrates: 0 Questions: - Should we consider the test completed? - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden big PH drops? I understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard that a sudden PH drop could shock them. - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral would increase KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as soon as I get it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a year, at most, > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of what is > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. More than likely, > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have been times when > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria will > start converting the ammonia (usually associated with the ammonia part of > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is one of the > reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our drinking water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > KH no reading > PH 8.2 > Ammonia 0.5 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrates 0 > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > Questions: > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their value is 0? I > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > - How about ammonia and KH? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You > either need > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding something > > to raise > the pH > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion in > the city > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then > once the > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. Often, a > utility > > will add > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry issues by > keeping > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming the pH > will > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH (acidic) > and soft > > water. > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact them > to get > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are adding to > > the water. > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to the > fifth > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the condition > you are > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour baseline. It > would > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.html > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.html > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final results. > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result on > both tap > > water and tank water > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March 08) to > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 > gallon tank > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the filter > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2-3 > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > > - I don't have a GH test > > - I use tap water from public utility > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "goldlenny_blogspot" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of > > your > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > > hours > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the > > rest > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us > > > those numbers. > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are > > you > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? > > What > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 > > neon > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 cory > > > cats > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > Parameters are: > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for the > > > test > > > > kit) > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow > > > from > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon tanks > > > with > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > > capacity > > > and > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > > capacity > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > Tested on: 12/8/2008 1:29:20 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34245	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water

Sure, don't feed your fish so much food.   Seriously Carol Lynn, if the tank is not over crowded and all is well, then you may have an unwanted type of bacteria problem.  Water is not cloudy and should never appear that way in an aquarium.  If it does, something a bit more sinister may be going on.  Check for water with a test kit and see if you can spot something out of whack.  PWC's are just good practice for aquarium maintenance and health of your fish.  Remember no matter what kind of fish you have they started their lives or their parents did, in a river, creek or lake.  Giving them a "fresh drink of water" never hurts..   Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@...> wrote: From: *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 12:33 PM Does anyone have any tips on how to keep the water in my tank from getting so cloudy, without changing the water? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34246	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?

I believe Lenny just posted the link to the original site that these pics came from: http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/ That setup is so cool, but I'll bet it's a pain to clean and if it gets just one gap in the sealant - whoosh - fish all over the floor. A few of the people on the Ratlist have considered doing something like this with pvc piping, so that their rats could visit them in every room. Then, they think about having to tear it down for cleaning every week or so . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: bill1433 To: AquaticLife Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:14 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Connecting Fish Tanks? This was the link from our photo section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/list The album is listed under this name -------in case the link does not work: FisHighway See Ray! I told you I was drinking coffee! Another bad habit! I'm always drinking coffee. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34247	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

Ray   It is only available in this group for moderators I think.   All groups have the option of posting it or not. Some opt not to for privacy reasons. This is especially true of large groups like this.   John in Neva\da --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 9:37 AM Bill, The Members selection in the left-hand menu is there on the Group Site -- at least it is on my Home page. If its not on your Home page, I can't figure why (unless that feature is only available to Moderators); you of course need to be signed in, but I'm assuming you already are when looking for it. Perhaps another Moderator could fill you in further. You joined on October 11, 2008. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. > When you go to these group sites there is always a link on > the left hand side of the page titled "Members". >   > If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, > all members of the list. >   > Question?  Where is ours?  Ok, why?  Because I have been > here for a while now but having the bad memory that I do, > and subject to more "senior moments" than I care to admit to, > I can't remember the exact date I joined, this "Members" list > would help. >   > Just a thought, >   > Bill > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34248	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Air Pumps?

I've always had excellent results with Tetra Whisper air pumps. While I've had many other manufacturers in the past, I haven't had any of the ones (except for Tetra) now on the market, so cannot comment on them. In the event of a possibility of adding a tank, its often a good choice if you buy a two-outlet air pump. Then too, some deeper tanks may require more powerful air pumps such as a Whisper Deepwater Pump or a Rena brand pump, both considerably higher priced if you need a two-outlet unit. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Can I please ask for recommendations on air pumps.  One for a single tank of 29 gallons and that is reliable?  Sorry I forgot to add this to my previous postings this morning. >   > Another Senior Moment! >   > Bill > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34249	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

John, Thanks for the refresher. I do recall a while back, some groups I were on lacked the "Members" selection in their menu's, which always puzzled me. Since I've become a moderator on many of these groups I don't see that option as being missing and is why I suggested it may only be for the mods -- although i wasn't quite sure. Still fail to see why some groups offer this for the general membership and some don't. I think there are still some groups I'm on, just as a member, which don't offer it but I haven't taken particular notice. I'm fairly sure you should still be able to go to your own membership page in case you want to change or add to your profile (or add/change an email address) -- but that page does not have your sign-up/acceptance date. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > Ray >   > It is only available in this group for moderators I think. >   > All groups have the option of posting it or not. Some opt not to for privacy reasons. This is especially true of large groups like this. >   > John in Neva\da > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 9:37 AM > > > > > > > Bill, The Members selection in the left-hand menu is there on the > Group Site -- at least it is on my Home page. If its not on your > Home page, I can't figure why (unless that feature is only available > to Moderators); you of course need to be signed in, but I'm assuming > you already are when looking for it. Perhaps another Moderator could > fill you in further. You joined on October 11, 2008. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. > > When you go to these group sites there is always a link on > > the left hand side of the page titled "Members". > >   > > If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, > > all members of the list. > >   > > Question?  Where is ours?  Ok, why?  Because I have been > > here for a while now but having the bad memory that I do, > > and subject to more "senior moments" than I care to admit to, > > I can't remember the exact date I joined, this "Members" list > > would help. > >   > > Just a thought, > >   > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34250	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water

A properly maintained tank that's been fully cycled should not get cloudy between partial water changes, but as it would seem your's does (as witness your question), you will have to first determine the cause of this cloudiness and just what type of cloudiness it is -- off- white/grayish or green. A white cloudiness can have several causes, all related to a bacterial bloom. It could be as a result of a mini-cycle (which in itself can have several causes), sometimes due to too thorough or improper cleaning of your filter. Excess nutrients (possibly in the form of uneaten fish food) from over-feeding, or decaying organic matter (dead fish, etc.) will also cloud the water. A greenish cloudiness is from suspended algae in the water column which is caused by a combination of excess nutrients in the form of nitrates in association with too much light (too strong or too long in duration per day) will enable suspended algae to grow, especially in the absence of live plants which would normally serve to out-compete the algae for these nutrients. I've given you a few things to look for here -- you'll need to look into these facters in determining where your problem lies. For further assistance, give us your water parameters, your maintenance procedures in detail and your daily lighting habits to start with, along with what color this cloudiness is. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "*Carol Lynn*" <childofgod19832003@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have any tips on how to keep the water in my tank from > getting so cloudy, without changing the water? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34251	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

I'm on a few groups that don't offer the membership page for all members to see. Usually this happens after an email harvesting incident or after a flame war crosses over into off-group attacks, such as the one mentioned on a different thread, where the person's home address was published to the group with threats of personal retribution. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? John, Thanks for the refresher. I do recall a while back, some groups I were on lacked the "Members" selection in their menu's, which always puzzled me. Since I've become a moderator on many of these groups I don't see that option as being missing and is why I suggested it may only be for the mods -- although i wasn't quite sure. Still fail to see why some groups offer this for the general membership and some don't. I think there are still some groups I'm on, just as a member, which don't offer it but I haven't taken particular notice. I'm fairly sure you should still be able to go to your own membership page in case you want to change or add to your profile (or add/change an email address) -- but that page does not have your sign-up/acceptance date. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > Ray > > It is only available in this group for moderators I think. > > All groups have the option of posting it or not. Some opt not to for privacy reasons. This is especially true of large groups like this. > > John in Neva\da > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 9:37 AM > > > > > > > Bill, The Members selection in the left-hand menu is there on the > Group Site -- at least it is on my Home page. If its not on your > Home page, I can't figure why (unless that feature is only available > to Moderators); you of course need to be signed in, but I'm assuming > you already are when looking for it. Perhaps another Moderator could > fill you in further. You joined on October 11, 2008. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. > > When you go to these group sites there is always a link on > > the left hand side of the page titled "Members". > > > > If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, > > all members of the list. > > > > Question? Where is ours? Ok, why? Because I have been > > here for a while now but having the bad memory that I do, > > and subject to more "senior moments" than I care to admit to, > > I can't remember the exact date I joined, this "Members" list > > would help. > > > > Just a thought, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34252	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water

It doesn't really have a color to it. It just looks cloudy to me. I've got two glofish and two silver dollars. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:13:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy water A properly maintained tank that's been fully cycled should not get cloudy between partial water changes, but as it would seem your's does (as witness your question), you will have to first determine the cause of this cloudiness and just what type of cloudiness it is -- off- white/grayish or green. A white cloudiness can have several causes, all related to a bacterial bloom. It could be as a result of a mini-cycle (which in itself can have several causes), sometimes due to too thorough or improper cleaning of your filter. Excess nutrients (possibly in the form of uneaten fish food) from over-feeding, or decaying organic matter (dead fish, etc.) will also cloud the water. A greenish cloudiness is from suspended algae in the water column which is caused by a combination of excess nutrients in the form of nitrates in association with too much light (too strong or too long in duration per day) will enable suspended algae to grow, especially in the absence of live plants which would normally serve to out-compete the algae for these nutrients. I've given you a few things to look for here -- you'll need to look into these facters in determining where your problem lies. For further assistance, give us your water parameters, your maintenance procedures in detail and your daily lighting habits to start with, along with what color this cloudiness is. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "*Carol Lynn*" <childofgod19832003 @...> wrote: > > Does anyone have any tips on how to keep the water in my tank from > getting so cloudy, without changing the water? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34253	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water

Anyone know how much a test kit usually runs? Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:13:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy water A properly maintained tank that's been fully cycled should not get cloudy between partial water changes, but as it would seem your's does (as witness your question), you will have to first determine the cause of this cloudiness and just what type of cloudiness it is -- off- white/grayish or green. A white cloudiness can have several causes, all related to a bacterial bloom. It could be as a result of a mini-cycle (which in itself can have several causes), sometimes due to too thorough or improper cleaning of your filter. Excess nutrients (possibly in the form of uneaten fish food) from over-feeding, or decaying organic matter (dead fish, etc.) will also cloud the water. A greenish cloudiness is from suspended algae in the water column which is caused by a combination of excess nutrients in the form of nitrates in association with too much light (too strong or too long in duration per day) will enable suspended algae to grow, especially in the absence of live plants which would normally serve to out-compete the algae for these nutrients. I've given you a few things to look for here -- you'll need to look into these facters in determining where your problem lies. For further assistance, give us your water parameters, your maintenance procedures in detail and your daily lighting habits to start with, along with what color this cloudiness is. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "*Carol Lynn*" <childofgod19832003 @...> wrote: > > Does anyone have any tips on how to keep the water in my tank from > getting so cloudy, without changing the water? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34254	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

With a KH of "no reading," after a test for it, I have to conclude that this value is also 0.0 (correct me if I'm missing something). I would be most curious as to what your GH is. With an unregistering alkalinity (buffering capacity) reading as per your KH test, I would look into ways of increasing this capacity -- yes, with the assistance of crushed coral. You need a minimum of at least 4 dkH (72 ppm) to ensure against a possible sudden pH crash -- which you will otherwise find difficult to maintain in soft water without this assistance. I'm presuming your base-line results of 0.5 ppm Ammonia is the result of chloramines added to your tap water. This will be negated (neutralized -- converted to harmless ammonium) by the use of SeaChem'S Prime as a chlorimine neutralizer. It will then be converted by your nitrifying bacteria once your cycle is established. Your pH value of 7.0 after 24 hours supports your low buffering capacity (and indicates towards a low GH as well). Most fish will do fine at a neutral pH (7.0), which would not be considered low. The idea is to maintain it at that to prevent any possible pH swings. Any more tampering with the water chemistry, other than what is noted to be necessary, is to be frowned upon as it will only lead into multiply increased problems. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "giuseppesalvato" <giuseppesalvato@...> wrote: > > Here are the final results of the water baseline test: > Values reading right out of the tap: > KH: no reading > PH: 8.2 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > After 24 hours: > KH: no reading > PH: 7.0 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > After 48 hours: > KH: no reading > PH: 7.0 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > Questions: > - Should we consider the test completed? > - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden big PH > drops? I understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard > that a sudden PH drop could shock them. > - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral would > increase KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as > soon as I get it. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a year, at > most, > > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of what is > > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. More than > likely, > > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have been times > when > > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria will > > start converting the ammonia (usually associated with the ammonia > part of > > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is one of the > > reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our drinking > water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > > KH no reading > > PH 8.2 > > Ammonia 0.5 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrates 0 > > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > > Questions: > > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their value > is 0? I > > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > > - How about ammonia and KH? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You > > either need > > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding something > > > to raise > > the pH > > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion in > > the city > > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then > > once the > > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. Often, a > > utility > > > will add > > > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry issues by > > keeping > > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming the pH > > will > > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH (acidic) > > and soft > > > water. > > > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact them > > to get > > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are adding to > > > the water. > > > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to the > > fifth > > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the condition > > you are > > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour baseline. It > > would > > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.html > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.html > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final results. > > > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result on > > both tap > > > water and tank water > > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March 08) to > > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 > > gallon tank > > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the filter > > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2- 3 > > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > > > - I don't have a GH test > > > - I use tap water from public utility > > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "goldlenny_blogspot" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon > > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of > > > your > > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your > > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > > > hours > > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. > > > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the > > > rest > > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us > > > > those numbers. > > > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are > > > you > > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? > > > What > > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 > > > neon > > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 cory > > > > cats > > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > > Parameters are: > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for the > > > > test > > > > > kit) > > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow > > > > from > > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon tanks > > > > with > > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > > > capacity > > > > and > > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > > > capacity > > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > > Tested on: 12/8/2008 1:29:20 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34255	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

It might be time to look at a more serious med or treatment. It seems that there may be some internal bacterial issues going on (you mentioned the rounded look which could be digestive related but could also be internal bacterial issues causing swelling) and the salted water treatment will not really help with most of those. You should start looking for a antibiotic food or a broad spectrum water based treatment. Jungle sells an antibiotic food that is supposed to have some decent antibiotics in it, although Jungle doesn't publish what they are but I've seen a few websites that have found what those ingredient were. I've used it before as one part of a treatment program so I'm not sure if it was the primary thing that helped or not but the fish recovered. It's not cheap though... but then neither are the water based antibiotics. If you go with the antibiotic food, you can continue the salt treatment and possible raise the salt back up to the 0.5% (since that seemed to be working). You could also try a separate salt water dip on the fish that is not improving externally... the salted water dip would be up to 30 minutes in a 1% solution or even up to a 3% solution (1% = 10 teaspoons per gallon). You would do this treatment in a separate 5G bucket with an air stone in it. First fill the bucket with 2G of removed tank water so it's the same water that the fish is used to and should be around 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) right now. After moving the fish and having the airstone going, start increasing the salt level, using a cup (8 oz.) of water and adding the increased 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon (that's two more teaspoons of salt in the 8 oz. cup of water), EVERY MINUTE OR TWO, WATCHING THE FISH CLOSELY FOR SIGNS OF DISTRESS. Each time you add a cup of warm water with two teaspoons of salt, that would increase the salinity level in the bucket by around 0.1% so you would keep adding the premixed cups of salted water until you have added 7 cups of water. That would bring it up to around 1.0%. If the fish is handling that OK, keep raising it. Have 2G of fresh, same temperature, dechlored water standing by. If at any time, the fish rolls over or starts to show serious signs of distress, slowly pour some of this fresh water into the treatment bucket, 1/2 gallon at a time, to lower the salinity level back down to a tolerable level. Once the fish is tolerating the level, leave it for another 15-20 minutes (for a total of 30 minutes from the time you started the treatment). After that, slowly add the rest of that standby freshwater which will lower the salinity level in the bucket back down to the 0.5% range and then you can net the fish and move it back to the main tank. If you can afford and decide on a water based antibiotic, get a broad spectrum antibiotic or a combined product like Maracyn 1 & 2. There are others so make sure they treat gram negative and gram positive bacteria and then check what's available and affordable and make your decision. I'm not sure if they can all be used along with the salted water treatment but I imagine they can. If the package says OK for fresh and salt water fish, then it's OK to use and continue the salted water treatment as well. Here are more articles to read on salted water treatment of goldfish and other fish. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html http://koivetforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ce4k929hfd45hkmui0sct4m7o0 <http://koivetforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ce4k929hfd45hkmui0sct4m7o0&topic =32.0> &topic=32.0 And the applicable "Dip" paragraph from TheSkepticalAquarist article http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml#saltbath "Salt dips and salt baths. Solutions of salt-- sometimes right up to marine concentrations (35 parts per thousand)-- are recommended as a short-term prophylactic bath for half an hour to remove parasites from gills, from fins and the outer surface of the epidermis, as Mr. Innes recommended so long ago. Encysted parasites, like mature Ich, are less likely to be affected. Intestinal parasites aren't affected at all. Chicago's Shedd Aquarium bathes their new freshwater arrivals in full-strength seawater to rid them of ectoparasites, without losses, said a curator there in a TFH interview a couple of years back. It's smart to pass your own new arrivals through a half-hour salt bath before putting them in the quarantine tank. A five-gallon covered bucket with an aerator is what you need; follow the link for details. The salt concentration has to be strong enough to make gill flukes drop away. Build up your dosage with pre-dissolved Kosher salt in two or three increments and stand ready to do a 50% water change with aquarium water at the first signs of stress; heavy respiration is an early signal. You'll want to do a 50% water change anyway, when the time's up, before netting them into the QTank." Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we were doing. - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her dorsal fin and near one eye. - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I thought constipation might be part of the problem. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the bigger tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a little (or raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough surface agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live plants are all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. Cooler water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will start to turn around soon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC yesterday) - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I can see bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look into an airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated carbon will not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does not remove nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A-carbon filter. I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and I would use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it simply isn't practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that you'll be changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my Betta tank was because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or 2G of water. 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to worry about treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for simplicity... but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a weekly basis. Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the world, I don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the goldfish tank. A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > or a $5.00 - 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > would last you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator will treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and changing 25% weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... probably much less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the Britta. The 16 oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water but it's harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the TopFin 8 oz. lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from whomever I'm ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for shipping than the product... at least not to me. You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without using the Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the future. Test it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will break the chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through a Brita filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll search down the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading is right after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I don't add anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water and dechlorinate with tablets? I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration helps Raven any. Santa Baby! Put that big tank under my tree for me! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other surface areas of the tank. Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and frequent PWC's. Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the bottom most of the time. - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not quite 20ppm - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a 20G tank DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's definitely a 20G. - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's working. Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when trying to dump it. Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and the goldfish! ;-) I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to look for. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also see the black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again tomorrow - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm guessing around 7.5 for the pH. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, then you could have low GH and KH levels. Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would equate to a GH of 10. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per G salt) - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug-eye look, but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair of curved nail clippers to what I've got. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt treatment.. right? Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the water to your tank. Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap water. In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Tuesday night Check in: - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest version. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? Today's Check in: I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow night. The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test for everything tomorrow. I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. DebR and the Three Goldfish ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding anything else to your tank. It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite green: Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a maximum of four treatments. Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with large fish, such as koi, in hard water. Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and gills. (END SNIP) After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store employees or owners. LOL Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the fish. Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage and read those posts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have started on the body. I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic levels while doing daily PWCs) I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, but never got around to it. The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know when or how that one died. The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the goldfish. I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me sometimes, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish _ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 2:02:58 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34256	From: Daniel Richie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank

Where should i go for the book, and what would you suggest?  Also, is there a list of the online sites with good aquarium need deals anywhere? --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:33 AM You really need some good books on the subject. You should get fish that will adapt to your local water conditions - hardness as well as ph. A local fishstore that keeps its fish in tap water is your best resource on that, and also, their fish will better survive the transition to the tap water in your tank. (Of course you use a product that removes chlorine, chloramines and associated ammonia.) The nitrogen wastes ened to be checked every day or two until the nitrogen cycle gets going and then every week is fine unless there is a problem. Yes, most tropical fish need water 75 to 80 degrees. A couple of heaters is your bet there. In general a bigger tank is easier to maintain than a small one. So start with 20 gallons, 30 even better, not 5 or 10. Getting a fish tank going is a very educational project if your school biology section will let you get one going. Petsmart sells what you need to get an aquarium going, but you can often get better deals online. Drs. Foster and Smith, Pet Solutions, Marineland. And others. I'm pretty new to tropical tanks and I elected not to do plants, atleast for now. I decorated with plastic plants. Make sure your gravel and any rocks don't react chemically with the water - that's a major problem with any sort of limestone or coral-based rock. You have to be careful that your gravel taht you buy at the fish store looks smooth and rounded and says it's chemically nonreactive. It may be coated to make it that way; that's OK. If you're feeling adventurous and want to put the time into it there are cheaper ways to find gravel. An aquarium is a major time committment, and you have to be willing to keep on cleaning the tank, testing the water, and feeding the fish. If you do get tired of it you can usually recover a quarter to a third of your investment pretty quickly on Craigs List. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "sunfish3714" <sunfish3714@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank Hey, guys. I was thinking about creating a tropical tank with some kids in my crew at my high school. I have had coolwater tanks with fish species from the perch, sunfish, and minnow families. I never really had anything that required a heater. So, I have a few questions. Where should I keep my pH? I was told that the temperature should be staying around 74-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that correct? How often should I check for nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia? Where would you suggest that I get the chemical tests for those things, if you would suggest chemical tests? Would you suggest a planted tank, knowing that we all are new to tropical tanks? Are there any plants that are relatively easy to maintain? We need to make this an informational tank that is "pretty" as well. I had envisioned an Amazon basin themed tank. What are your thoughts on this? Is there any other place in the world that has a great diversity of species to choose from? What are your thoughts on this? ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34257	From: Daniel Richie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: classroom aquarium

There was something that we could do with TU, i think it was.  They give us trout eggs and we grow them to 1" and release them.  I am a little hesitant to dive into this because there is only four of us, as of now, and i am extremely inexperienced in the art of rearing baby fish.  Any suggestions on who to go to besides my local trout hatcheries for answers?    --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Diana Brooks <diana_brooks@...> wrote: From: Diana Brooks <diana_brooks@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] classroom aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 12:22 PM As a suggestion to the person thinking of starting a classroom aquarium, a suggestion.. . If you contact your local Department of Natural Resources - they have a slightly different agency name in every state - you may be able to get students involved with stocking fish. In Alaska you could get all the supplies, and a handful of salmon eggs, from the nearest hatchery. If the school had money, buy a chiller for the tank - it still had to be wrapped in that insulation Lenny's describing until the eggs hatched because of light and temperature. Schools that were not so well heeled, we used a tiny tank inside a dorm sized refridgerator. I guess in other parts of the country the fish are not expecting such cool temperatures. After your eggs grow up, the kids go on a field trip to release the babies in an appropriate location. A great way to learn about local environment. Think globally - act locally. Also there are all these other lessons that can be taught about what the fish need out in the real world to survive. Habitat protection. Also, since they were usually released in the spring, no worries about who will keep them alive during summer break. And with HS students - not as many of the tears at the fishies going-away. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

DebR, Disregard most of my previous reply and follow Ray's advice. He's much more experienced than I am. I know the thread was started as a fungus problem but then I thought that somewhere along the line, you said it looked more like Columnaris (bacterial.. that often appears to be fungal). Unless Ray comments on this post, follow his treatment directions below. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it appears now to be time to medicate. There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the fungus. You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- Elodea and Water Clover. One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or erroneous readings of test results). Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal infections. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we were doing. > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her dorsal fin and near one eye. > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the bigger > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a little (or > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough surface > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live plants are > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. Cooler > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will start to turn > around soon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC yesterday) > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I can see > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look into an > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated carbon will > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does not remove > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- carbon filter. > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and I would > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it simply isn't > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that you'll be > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my Betta tank was > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or 2G of water. > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to worry about > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for simplicity... > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a weekly basis. > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the world, I > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the goldfish tank. > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > or a $5.00 - > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > would last > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator will > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and changing 25% > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... probably much > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the Britta. The 16 > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water but it's > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the TopFin 8 oz. > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from whomever I'm > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for shipping > than the product... at least not to me. > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without using the > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the future. Test > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will break the > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through a Brita > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll search down > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading is right > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I don't add > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water and > dechlorinate with tablets? > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration helps Raven > any. > > Santa Baby! > Put that big tank under my tree > for me! > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other > surface areas of the tank. > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and > frequent PWC's. > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the > bottom most of the time. > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not > quite 20ppm > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a > 20G tank > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's > definitely a 20G. > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's > working. > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my > answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when > trying to dump it. > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and > the goldfish! ;-) > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to > look for. > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also see the > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again > tomorrow > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would > equate to a GH of 10. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per > G salt) > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- eye look, > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > treatment.. right? > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the > water to your tank. > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap > water. > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Tuesday night Check in: > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest > version. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Today's Check in: > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow > night. > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test > for everything tomorrow. > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding > anything else to your tank. > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any > nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite green: > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a > maximum of four treatments. > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and > gills. > (END SNIP) > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store > employees or owners. LOL > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the > fish. > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage > and read those posts. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have > started on the body. > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the > company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, > but never got around to it. > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know > when or how that one died. > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the > goldfish. > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me > sometimes, lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 2:11:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34259	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water

While the price of test kits will vary depending on what it's to test for and the manufacturer, on the low end they can vary between $4 and $8 up to an average of around $12 for each individual freshwater test. Best value is gotten when purchasing a master kit, if you don't already have most of the individual tests. API's freshwater master testing kit can be had for $21.99 (includes both low & high range pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate). Tetra's deluxe "Laborette" kit includes tests for freshwater and saltwater pH, carbonette and General hardness, nitrite and ammonia for $14.99 -- as seen in Drs Foster & Smith -- to give you some idea. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Carol Lynn <childofgod19832003@...> wrote: > > Anyone know how much a test kit usually runs? > > > Carol Lynn Cumberland > childofgod19832003@... > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:13:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy water > > > A properly maintained tank that's been fully cycled should not get > cloudy between partial water changes, but as it would seem your's does > (as witness your question), you will have to first determine the cause > of this cloudiness and just what type of cloudiness it is -- off- > white/grayish or green. > > A white cloudiness can have several causes, all related to a bacterial > bloom. It could be as a result of a mini-cycle (which in itself can > have several causes), sometimes due to too thorough or improper > cleaning of your filter. Excess nutrients (possibly in the form of > uneaten fish food) from over-feeding, or decaying organic matter (dead > fish, etc.) will also cloud the water. > > A greenish cloudiness is from suspended algae in the water column which > is caused by a combination of excess nutrients in the form of nitrates > in association with too much light (too strong or too long in duration > per day) will enable suspended algae to grow, especially in the absence > of live plants which would normally serve to out-compete the algae for > these nutrients. I've given you a few things to look for here -- > you'll need to look into these facters in determining where your > problem lies. > > For further assistance, give us your water parameters, your maintenance > procedures in detail and your daily lighting habits to start with, > along with what color this cloudiness is. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "*Carol Lynn*" > <childofgod19832003 @...> wrote: > > > > Does anyone have any tips on how to keep the water in my tank from > > getting so cloudy, without changing the water? > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34260	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it will block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes through from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the thin layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to 99% of UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that I've ever tried that! LOL None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out during the summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself isn't heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal heat loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of morning or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little cooler but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the ambient temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated windows (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those windows or the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would work during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air conditioning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm> This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an plastic aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at night with insulation. Thanks Jennie --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective film to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating up the inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage and it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like acrylic has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron thick piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. It might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I doubt it comes close to 50% insulative value. If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes and businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like fiberglass, styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air layer, it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test this by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain glass and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a nickel, there's none. Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in chemical composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much different chemical composition. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jjmiltner Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] window film Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good idea? Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:23:11 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 7:09:40 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 2:26:36 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

I just posted a link to that on one of my recent posts with four links of various tank connectors. I don't see my post in the below emails included in this reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks Folks, somewhere, somehow, someone has posted pictures of fish swimming from room to room on our groups picture section! I'm sorry I can't provide a link but I do remember seeing it. Apparently the tanks are connected by long clear plastic tubes. I don't think its a joke as it looked real to me. I was over there trying to get some ideas for my own tank by viewing what others had done. Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > wrote: From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:08 PM You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) http://cgi.ebay com/aquarium- terrarium- bridge-cleaning- frame-tank- multible_ W0QQitemZ3900149 62622QQcmdZViewI temQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_ 0?hash=item39001 4962622&_ trksid=p3286. c0.m14&_trkparms =72%3A1205% 7C66%3A2% 7C65%3A12% 7C39%3A1% 7C240%3A1318% 7C301%3A0% 7C293%3A1% 7C294%3A50 I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@ prodigy.net> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [ _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 2:28:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34262	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

They are a relatively new product. You might have to do some Googling. Just Google - smartheater review - or - smartheater complaint - and see what comes up. Usually adding the main word and complaint will find you all of the posted complaints on the product and unless there are thousands of complaints about the same thing, I wouldn't put much merit on just one or two published complaints unless they are well articulated and referenced. I imagine that the intake filter screen/strainer on the SmartHeater could get clogged on occasion just like the intake screen/strainer on any filter system could get clogged.. especially if one has live plants. Other than that, I imagine when you do filter maintenance on an HOB, you would leave the SmartHeater in the tank so you could swoosh it to make sure there's no leaves or debris blocking the intake strainer. On a canister, if you don't see any slow down on water flow, you can assume the intake isn't blocked. While the SmartHeater might be a good invention by Rena, the SmartFilter HOB isn't. The SmartFilter employs using a specialized filter cartridge which doesn't look easy to modify or clean for reuse so they're trapping people into changing the filter cartridges on a monthly basis, thus putting their tanks into mini-cycles every month. Good for filter sales, bad for fish! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Agreed Len BUT..................................... I was hoping someone on list either has one or using for a while. Performance? Heater maintenance? Do they require cleaning? What's the "scoop" on this heater? Anyone have one? Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 11:03 PM I'm betting that the Rena SmartHeater will fit on the intake of an AquaClear also.. as well as most other HOB's. You would have to measure and compare the OD (outside diameter) on both systems but just eyeballing the intake tube for the AC-50 and the intake tube for my XP1 and they appear to be the same outside diameter... meaning this device would likely work on any of the AC models although I do not have any larger than the AC-50 so I'm not sure if their larger models have larger intake tubes. Since this Rena SmartHeater advertises fitting on the XP-1 or the Rena HOB, I'm sure it will fit on most HOB's with the round intake tube. One of my Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheels, the Model 200, has more of a rounded corner rectangular intake tube so it wouldn't fit on that model but all of the HOB's that I've had with the round intakes have basically the same size intake on them so I'm sure Rena would have made their SmartHeater to fit on as many other brands/models as possible... otherwise that wouldn't be very "Smart". LOL I guess that's why Rena had their other heaters on clearance prices because they want to push their new SmartHeaters. That is a good idea to incorporate the heater as sliding over the intake tube so it's one less potential "eyesore" in the back of the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Hi Len, The reason why I was leaning on the Rena was this device: http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? pcatid=18444 <http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? pcatid=18444> I have never seen anything like it but in occurred to me that it would allow for a better view inside the tank without all the extra plumbling? Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 12:47 PM If rear space is your primary issue, remember that an HOB does not have to be on the back. It can be on one of the sides. Would that make it an HOS? (Seems appropriate since it's Christmas time.. HO, HO, HO = HO'S ;-)) I've also seen the acronym HOT (Hang On Tank) used but HOB is the most common acronym for hang on back power filters. Of course, hanging it on the side presents issues if you were planning on using a standard (non-custom) cover or hood and lighting. If it's only a 29G, I think I'd go with an AquaClear since even a Rena Filstar XP-1 would be a lot of filtration for a 29G tank. An XP-1 is rated for 250 gallons per hour http://www.rena. net/Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 346 so unless you are going with fish that like a LOT of water movement... like fish that come from a fast flowing stream... then an appropriate sized HOB would be better.. I am not familiar with a canister filter that would be small enough for a 29G tank but there is a way to throttle back the water flow on the XP-1 with one of the attachments that came with it... at least I seem to remember that attachment being an option. I did not install that option when hooking up either of my XP's and the original boxes/parts have been in storage since my move after Hurricane Katrina. You'll see a part called an "Outflow Regulator" listed on this page so I'm guessing that is what was included in the original packaging. http://www.planetre na.com/Filstar- Rena-Parts. html Since behind the tank space is one of your concerns, the plumbing for the Rena could also be inserted into the tank from the sides so the 1" diameter plastic parts that go over the top of the tank frame could go into the tank on one end or one tube on each end... which ever suits your aesthetics and filtration preferences. Of course, if you have baseboards on your walls, the stand would probably be at least 3/4" to 1" away from the actual wall anyhow so the 1" tubes and plastic parts would easily fit behind the tank also. See if you can elicit more info from the Elves (maybe a cookies and milk bribe) about exactly what size tank Santa is bringing.... but then, that might ruin the surprise so maybe this bribe isn't a good thing... and make sure the Elf isn't named Blagojevich or Edwards as the F.B.I. might be listening. It seems Illinois is trying to compete with my beloved Louisiana for the most crooked Governor award (turn on Fox News if you don't know what this means). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Good Morning! I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol'bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger. The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn't know anything about keeping fish! Hey! Give him a break....... .he can't cover all the bases! However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol'bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want. Now that opens some doors, to say the least. As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall. But I'm wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one? In other words, are they worth the extra money? The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point. Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. Your Thought's Please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 2:37:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34263	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

LOL. My fish and me were on the second floor so we were all safe from the flooding. Where I live in the burbs, we only got about a foot of standing water. Our levees did not fail like those in New Orleans proper where they had catastrophic flooding. The flooding we experienced was because of all of the rain and the pumping stations not working. It was just because our dumb-assed politicians sent all of the flood control pump operators out of town and they couldn't get back into the area to restart the pumps or run the generators so we had to wait for the rain to drain off the old fashioned way... slowly. They have now wasted tens of millions of dollars building "safe houses" by each pumping station so the pump operators can ride out hurricanes and keep things running. A normal one room "safe house" could be built for less than a hundred thousand dollars.. when government does it... over a million dollars... much like that new visitor center in D.C. that cost ten times more than the original estimates. Oops.. going off on one of my political rants again. LOL I did cover all my tanks with plastic tarps to prevent any ceiling material or funky rain from dripping into them in the event of a roof/ceiling leak but fortunately my four roof leaks were not over any of my tanks. I did have to move my damned bed though... or sleep with a bucket in the bed. I chose to move it. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Combining tanks Hmmm, fish swimming from room to room! Are you sure you weren't looking at a pic of Lenny's fish after Katrina struck <g>? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Folks, somewhere, somehow, someone has posted pictures of fish swimming from room to room on our groups picture section! I'm sorry I can't provide a link but I do remember seeing it. Apparently the tanks are connected by long clear plastic tubes. I don't think its a joke as it looked real to me. I was over there trying to get some ideas for my own tank by viewing what others had done. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:08 PM > > > > > > > You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) > > http://cgi.ebay com/aquarium- terrarium- bridge-cleaning- frame- tank- multible_ W0QQitemZ3900149 62622QQcmdZViewI temQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_ 0?hash=item39001 4962622&_ trksid=p3286. c0.m14&_trkparms =72%3A1205% 7C66%3A2% 7C65%3A12% 7C39%3A1% 7C240% 3A1318% 7C301%3A0% 7C293%3A1% 7C294%3A50 > > I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. > > As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@ prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks > > This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. > > I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. > > Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 2:47:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34264	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy water

Both of those test kits can also be purchased from WalMart.com and then delivered to your nearby store so you get free shipping. They are both under $20.00 on WalMart.com. The API kit includes more chemical reagents for performing more tests for the four tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH) so it would be good to get the GH/KH test kit as well. The Tetratest-Laborette kit has less chemical reagents but performs more types of tests, including the GH and KH but it doesn't include the Nitrate test kit so you could purchase the API Nitrate test kit separately. The API master and separate GH/KH combo kit would cost a little more up front but would provide a LOT more tests for the money.. probably twice as many tests. I have and use both of the above master test kits. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy water While the price of test kits will vary depending on what it's to test for and the manufacturer, on the low end they can vary between $4 and $8 up to an average of around $12 for each individual freshwater test. Best value is gotten when purchasing a master kit, if you don't already have most of the individual tests. API's freshwater master testing kit can be had for $21.99 (includes both low & high range pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate). Tetra's deluxe "Laborette" kit includes tests for freshwater and saltwater pH, carbonette and General hardness, nitrite and ammonia for $14.99 -- as seen in Drs Foster & Smith -- to give you some idea. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Carol Lynn <childofgod19832003@...> wrote: > > Anyone know how much a test kit usually runs? > > > Carol Lynn Cumberland > childofgod19832003@... > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:13:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy water > > > A properly maintained tank that's been fully cycled should not get > cloudy between partial water changes, but as it would seem your's does > (as witness your question), you will have to first determine the cause > of this cloudiness and just what type of cloudiness it is -- off- > white/grayish or green. > > A white cloudiness can have several causes, all related to a bacterial > bloom. It could be as a result of a mini-cycle (which in itself can > have several causes), sometimes due to too thorough or improper > cleaning of your filter. Excess nutrients (possibly in the form of > uneaten fish food) from over-feeding, or decaying organic matter (dead > fish, etc.) will also cloud the water. > > A greenish cloudiness is from suspended algae in the water column which > is caused by a combination of excess nutrients in the form of nitrates > in association with too much light (too strong or too long in duration > per day) will enable suspended algae to grow, especially in the absence > of live plants which would normally serve to out-compete the algae for > these nutrients. I've given you a few things to look for here -- > you'll need to look into these facters in determining where your > problem lies. > > For further assistance, give us your water parameters, your maintenance > procedures in detail and your daily lighting habits to start with, > along with what color this cloudiness is. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "*Carol Lynn*" > <childofgod19832003 @...> wrote: > > > > Does anyone have any tips on how to keep the water in my tank from > > getting so cloudy, without changing the water? > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 2:59:09 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34265	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?

Those are the same pics as the ones that were in the article that I recently posted a link to. I'm not sure if Aaron... is the owner of the pics or were just sharing snagged duplicates from that website or if the website snagged them from Aaron... or they both snagged them from someone else. The pics appear to be from a coffee shop or other restaurant type biz. I don't see anything in the below link that identifies the location of this fish pipeline. http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:15 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Connecting Fish Tanks? This was the link from our photo section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/list <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/list> The album is listed under this name -------in case the link does not work: FisHighway See Ray! I told you I was drinking coffee! Another bad habit! I'm always drinking coffee. Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 3:13:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank

Dora, It's not just me that stresses the importance of Fishless Cycling. Any responsible, educated and informed fish keeper will NOT cycle with fish unless they have to do it. There are instances where newbie's have to do it, when they get trapped into buying a new tank and fish without knowing about the nitrogen cycle and how it adversely affects the fish... or even an experienced fish keeper might have to do it if they had to use strong antibiotics on their main only tank and killed off their nitrifying bacteria. For you to advise otherwise shows you to be exactly what you are... and I'll leave that for experienced and responsible fish keepers to determine from their own readings of your posts. Hell.. you can't even spell my name right. Using your "logic" that tanks "never were cycled without fish", (which was technically true up until around 15 years ago when we learned more about the nitrogen cycle in aquaria and started developing methods for fishless cycling), should we also say women shouldn't be allowed to vote or work... since they "never were allowed to in the past"? Your wanna-be logic is baseless, ignorant and/or ill-informed... well maybe not in your case. Maybe YOU shouldn't be allowed to work or vote.. or otherwise have any adverse effect on society as a whole. Or maybe we shouldn't use computers because the "were never used in the past". God, your lack of logic is so pathetic at times. We've all read about all of the fish that you have killed/injured in your tanks because you refuse to follow the basics of responsible fish keeping. All of my fish lived through Hurricane Katrina and the aftermaths, including no power for 14 days and no clean water for five weeks. I'll put my record against yours any time. This has been an editorial reply to Dora's semi-attack on me and/or my advice. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank Just so you know, whether to cycle a tank with fish or without them is a major matter of controversy. Tanks never WERE cycled without fish. We know how to do it now, but if you want ti get your tank going before the end of teh semester you might want to start with fish! Lennie is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY big on fishless cycling, and if you let the opinionatedness of people on tropical fish lists get to you, you'll give up in a day! However a routine newbie way to invite catastrophe is to start with a tank full of fish, or even several of the prettiest fish in the fish store. Start with two or three hardy fish like danios. There are several other good ones as well. Danios are not the prettiest fish but they are lively, and they'll survive your nitrogen waste spikes. When your nitrogen waste levels even out a month to six weeks depending on whether you used a bacterial starter, you can add more fish two or three at a time. Danios come in several varieties. Plain ordinary, larger fins, leopard spotted, pink, and psychedelic colors. I started with the plain ol' striped ones and now I won't get anything else (except teh tetras). You can speed up the process just slightly with a bacterial starter. Their effectiveness varies directly with price and difficulty of obtaining them. Freshwater TLC comes across as a goofy product but works as well as any of the inexpensive ones. I bought one of the expensive refrigerated ones and it didn't do all that much. Be sure you do your homework before you select your fish. Fish vary a great deal in water conditions, what fish they get along with, and some of those little fish in the pet store get to be a foot or two long. That's especially true of goldfish. Don't know if tha'ts a foot or two long, but they get big, and they also put out an extraordinary amount of waste relative to their size. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:09 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank Since this needs to be informational as well, will the tank be set up in your school or at one of your homes? In either case, you should set up the tank ASAP and start a "Fishless Cycle" (meaning NO fish) which will require you all to wear mad scientist hats for several weeks to a month or so while the tank is fishless cycling. This will involve adding ammonia to the tank and testing it for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc. on a daily basis. During this time, you will also learn your tap water baseline and can do more research on what kind of fish will work together long term in your tank. The fishless cycling process gets the nitrogen cycle going in a new tank, without fish, so you don't have to put the actual fish through the process. All you need is a master test kit ($20.00) and a pint or quart of plain ammonia (99 cents) to complete the fishless cycle and make the tank safe for fish without killing any of the fish in the process (so you don't have to worry about PETA coming after you). LOL If you go to my blog (link in my sig), on the "A to Z..." page, I have info on Fishless Cycling and other info especially for beginner to intermediate fish keepers. There are two free online tutorials that are good to take also. You could even keep a graph of the fishless cycling to show what is happening with the nitrogen cycle... similar to the one on this page... http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQualityCycling.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQualityCycling.html> Like \\Steve// said, you really want to keep fish that will do well with your baseline tap water source so you don't have to get into trying to alter the chemistry of the water since this starts to make the hobby into a job. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank What is the pH of the water coming from your tap? What is it 24 hours later (same container left to sit after the initial measurement).? That will be the pH you have to work with. Choose your fish to fit the pH. You may be fortunate enough to be able to keep Amazonians, or you may need to look at the Rift Lakes in Africa for fish, or somewhere in between. The temperature you will want will be what the fish require. When choosing fish this is another factor to consider, you want fish that have intersecting temperature ranges so that everyone is comfortable. When you are first cycling the tank, you will need to test every day to ensure the cycle is progressing and to ensure you are adding the appropriate amount of ammonia. Once the tank is cycled and you start adding fish continue each day to ensure a stable tank for about a month, then you can start backing off to once a week, or less, depending on the stability of your tap water and tank. Planting the tank depends on the fish that you will have in it. Some fish will mow down plants faster than you can plant them, others will not touch them. There are a number of "easy' plants to keep, again, depending on your water chemistry. If plants are out, there are any number of ways to aquascape the tank. In any geographic region, except for temperature extremes, there is a wide diversity of fish to chose from. The question is more one of what is available. This can vary from store to store, and you can open your horizons to availability if there is a fish club, society, or association near you. There you should be able to have access to stuff not found in stores. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > sunfish3714 > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank > > > Hey, guys. > > I was thinking about creating a tropical tank with some kids in > my crew at my high school. I have had coolwater tanks with fish species > from the perch, sunfish, and minnow families. I never really had > anything that required a heater. So, I have a few questions. > > Where should I keep my pH? I was told that the temperature should > be staying around 74-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that correct? How often > should I check for nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia? Where would you > suggest that I get the chemical tests for those things, if you would > suggest chemical tests? Would you suggest a planted tank, knowing that > we all are new to tropical tanks? Are there any plants that are > relatively easy to maintain? We need to make this an informational tank > that is "pretty" as well. I had envisioned an Amazon basin themed tank. > What are your thoughts on this? Is there any other place in the world > that has a great diversity of species to choose from? What are your > thoughts on this? > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 3:09:09 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 1:21:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34267	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

In going back over the threads of this subject, I can't find any reference to any internal disorders, although I do remember some members being suggested to feed peas to their fish to help them with digestive disorders, although I don't recall seeing that here. There was also some talk about fin and tail rot, but again, I can't find this here in this long thread -- direct me if I missed anything on either of these issues. I do see references made to "white stuff" on the fish and more recently, "cottony stuff" on the caudal and dorsal bases on both CB and Raven -- which to me strongly indicates the manifestation of Fungus on these fish. If Columnaris is involved, and mouth "fungus" as one of these forms can take on this appearance when first starting, I haven't seen anything pointing towards that -- except for "white stuff," but bodily Columnaris is rarely that localized -- any whiteness as a result of this disease would be more generally spread. Its the "cottony" appearance that pinpoints it right back to Fungus when associated with localized areas. Fortunately, these terrific medications (Nitrofurazone and Furadolizone) cover all bases and are greatly anti-fungal as well as being great broad-spectrum anti-biotics. Aside only from Triple- Sulfa (a primarily gram-negative antibiotic), I know of no better medication for treating Columnaris, even though Oxytetracycline would be as equal, and at the same pH and hardness values -- up to pH 8.0 in hard water. But, these two medications (Triple-Sulfa and Oxytetracycline) are not without their drawbacks of erradicating your nitrifying bacteria. I won't rule out Oxolinic Acid as a good treatment against Columnaris either. Note; if the pH is over 8.0, you want to go to Triple-Sulfa, if the water is high in calcium and magnesium (which it often accompanies), Nitrofurans lose their potency above pH 8.0 as they bind up with these elements. For strickly fungal infections, while the two afore-mentioned medications will act on this, the two 'zones' (Nitrofurazone and Furadolizone) in combination are more effective than either one of these -- and not being directly derived from bacteria culturing as a product of them (as are many of the meds in the Penacyllin/Kanamycin, etc. families) they are said not to interfere with the nitrifying bacteria cultures. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > DebR, > > Disregard most of my previous reply and follow Ray's advice. He's much more > experienced than I am. I know the thread was started as a fungus problem > but then I thought that somewhere along the line, you said it looked more > like Columnaris (bacterial.. that often appears to be fungal). > > Unless Ray comments on this post, follow his treatment directions below. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also > see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock > solution > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock > solution > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs > of > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution > uses 20 > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg > malachite per > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > Higher dose only > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 > ml stock > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other > day for a > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > every three > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of > stock > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only > be used with > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to > a wound, > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's > eyes and > > gills. > > (END SNIP) > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of > 25% PWC's > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally > treated > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove > the rest. > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > will be the > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > this fresh > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > their > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. > were you > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > interdiction or > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help > with your > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > treatment. > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt > but DO NOT > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > treatment unless > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's > OK. It's > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from > a very > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet > store > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > fish a 24 > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > gallon), which is > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a > dose of 1 > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this > salt in a > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the > tank, > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added > 6 > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to > the > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, > add another > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 > hours > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons per > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting > your > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish > to adjust > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if > and/or when > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would > then add 15 > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add > it back > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one > after the > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a > chance to > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > happening to the > > fish. > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better > and it's also > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like > I did with > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my > previous > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to > the webpage > > and read those posts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this > is under > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few > new white > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems > to have > > started on the body. > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that > I can't get > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning > salt, so I > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G > tank, > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > times 12 hours > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > therapeutic > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did > see on the > > company website that they can be used together). The problem is > that they > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is > that > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank > is, yet? > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll > retest > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > Nitrate: >10 & > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish > are in now. > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were > all gone by > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least > another 6 > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change > and fewer > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was > run for a > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned > off and my > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > components on eBay, > > but never got around to it. > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > arrived in a > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > back problems > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they > needed a new > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about > a year in > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > don't know > > when or how that one died. > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and > then > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I > believe the > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning > was done. > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > sponge and > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I > picked up a > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that > it didn't > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > biofilter, but > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's > enough > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came > with the > > goldfish. > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does > that to me > > sometimes, lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/10/2008 2:11:08 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34268	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

I think that was another poster who suggested is was bacterial, because they thought I had described the white as being mainly on the fins. I originally thought the tails had been pruned by dominance behavior, as the actual white cottony stuff was mostly on the bodies, mainly near the base of the tails and fins. But then CB's tail seemed to be getting shorter and the malachite green wasn't helping at all, so then I started wondering if it might not be bacterial or both. I'll follow Ray's instructions and go find some Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? DebR, Disregard most of my previous reply and follow Ray's advice. He's much more experienced than I am. I know the thread was started as a fungus problem but then I thought that somewhere along the line, you said it looked more like Columnaris (bacterial.. that often appears to be fungal). Unless Ray comments on this post, follow his treatment directions below. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it appears now to be time to medicate. There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the fungus. You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- Elodea and Water Clover. One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or erroneous readings of test results). Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal infections. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we were doing. > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her dorsal fin and near one eye. > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the bigger > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a little (or > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough surface > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live plants are > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. Cooler > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will start to turn > around soon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC yesterday) > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I can see > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look into an > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated carbon will > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does not remove > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- carbon filter. > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and I would > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it simply isn't > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that you'll be > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my Betta tank was > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or 2G of water. > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to worry about > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for simplicity... > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a weekly basis. > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the world, I > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the goldfish tank. > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > or a $5.00 - > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > would last > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water Dechlorinator will > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and changing 25% > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... probably much > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the Britta. The 16 > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water but it's > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the TopFin 8 oz. > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from whomever I'm > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for shipping > than the product... at least not to me. > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without using the > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the future. Test > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will break the > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through a Brita > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll search down > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading is right > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I don't add > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water and > dechlorinate with tablets? > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration helps Raven > any. > > Santa Baby! > Put that big tank under my tree > for me! > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which one do you > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If you didn't > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm after > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap water is > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding chlorine and > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially when cycling > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled tank, it will > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the nitrifying > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also in other > surface areas of the tank. > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness itself. The > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance with the > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through cycling issues, > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your testing and > frequent PWC's. > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots of O2 and if > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. This can be > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level a little.. > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more surface > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing at the > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then you'll have to > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is doing a lot of > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is hiding under the > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started adding the salt. > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to sit on the > bottom most of the time. > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly disappearing. > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: not > quite 20ppm > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about 25T in a > 20G tank > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and it's > definitely a 20G. > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a male, I guess > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per gallon) are used > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and it's > working. > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons per gallon > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly bring the > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started typing my > answer before reading your entire email. You already started doing this.. > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to make sure your > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to every five > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G buckets for > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, fill it to > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and then slowly > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the same mark to > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G mark is you > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a lot when > trying to dump it. > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x H" and > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For your > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any square/rectangular > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" x H" = > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it probably just > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was more > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes we have to > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off all of the > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always hate saying > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a while, we > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a HUGE will > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad conditions > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't give proper > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for you... and > the goldfish! ;-) > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult to sex > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to tell but males > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and the leading > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first time and > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just on the > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you have a > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename him to > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to have found > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with them. LOL > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll know what to > look for. > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also see the > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 again > tomorrow > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. I just > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't feel like > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today when I did > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and it was > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count gallons as I > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my dd told me > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday I removed > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. Tonight I removed > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish seem to be > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not add any salt > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 gallon tank. > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra salt. It's > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 10 > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): pH:7.4; > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the pH usually > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 and > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test (7.4) so I'm > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination pack GH and > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the four basics > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish since your pH > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. As your > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the GH and KH > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after a week, > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital H since it > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always capitalized for > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in some test > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead of CH is > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness and Karbonat > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. A German > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but 18 for > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, that would > equate to a GH of 10. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do I find test > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit area of > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail and dorsal > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. Raven > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark spots, > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has a good > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: 20 > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water with 1T per > G salt) > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental note to > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less obvious and the > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white areas, but > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there somewhere > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge bubbles that > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- eye look, > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses with > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just take a pair > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that I've ever > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, plastic plants, > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing up.. 7-10 days > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it was. Same > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a while for > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons which would > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more dose to > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of 90 > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start to have a > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know which day > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > treatment.. right? > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in your tank. > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the ammonia get > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in check. > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the same level > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before adding the > water to your tank. > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog article on > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon bucket. Test > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. Test it > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers will likely > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. Agitation > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. This baseline > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in your tap > water. > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email and then I > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get the Daily > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies to a Daily > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've never seen > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it automatically > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily Digests. > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a few seconds > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the thread they > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't show in reply > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the upgrades to the > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the replies > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking for other > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in chronological order.. > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer threads. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Tuesday night Check in: > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish areas > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. This may be a > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess with that, > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than find her > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in a day, > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest version go > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new messages. > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the digest > version. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Today's Check in: > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because the fish > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white and the > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking exhausted > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using Rid-Ich+. > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at all those > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to try going > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant for help. I > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers for rodent > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine shavings, that > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much sooner, > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping them in > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had time for. > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and the only > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before going to > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added another 2T > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the replacement > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total of 6T in > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and 20T tomorrow > night. > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for Carol Burnett) > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other two (Lucille > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) dorsal fin > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is at .25ppm. I'll test > for everything tomorrow. > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it makes me > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with adding > anything else to your tank. > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a higher nitrite > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If either the > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current nitrite level is > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will protect the fish > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you need some to > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you ever add > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a long way... > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up and > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, it would > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish were gone or > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting stagnant. > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there weren't any > nasties still living in your old water that would make things worse. You've > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water anyhow. > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the malachite > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never mentioned it. > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four days isn't > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major effect. > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to dose the > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine day > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker or what. > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment options... > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite green: > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan parasites. > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock solution > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock solution > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs of > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution uses 20 > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg malachite per > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. Higher dose only > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 ml stock > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other day for a > maximum of four treatments. > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat every three > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of stock > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only be used with > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to a wound, > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's eyes and > gills. > (END SNIP) > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of 25% PWC's > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally treated > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove the rest. > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment will be the > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in this fresh > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give their > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. were you > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early interdiction or > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help with your > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt treatment. > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt but DO NOT > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green treatment unless > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's OK. It's > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from a very > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet store > employees or owners. LOL > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the fish a 24 > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per gallon), which is > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a dose of 1 > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this salt in a > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the tank, > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added 6 > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to the > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, add another > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 hours > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting your > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish to adjust > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if and/or when > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would then add 15 > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add it back > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one after the > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a chance to > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is happening to the > fish. > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better and it's also > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like I did with > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my previous > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to the webpage > and read those posts. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this is under > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few new white > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems to have > started on the body. > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that I can't get > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning salt, so I > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G tank, > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more times 12 hours > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining therapeutic > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did see on the > company website that they can be used together). The problem is that they > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is that > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank is, yet? > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll retest > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, Nitrate: >10 & > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish are in now. > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were all gone by > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least another 6 > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change and fewer > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was run for a > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned off and my > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the components on eBay, > but never got around to it. > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They arrived in a > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that back problems > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they needed a new > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about a year in > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I don't know > when or how that one died. > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and then > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I believe the > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning was done. > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new sponge and > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I picked up a > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that it didn't > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a biofilter, but > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's enough > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came with the > goldfish. > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does that to me > sometimes, lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 2:11:08 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34269	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Air Pumps?

Do you definitely need or want one? Since you are planning on using live plants, you may not want or need one. Your tank will have plenty of water circulation, based on your filter choices, and probably have plenty of surface agitation for proper gas exchange. Unless you like the aesthetics of the bubbles rising along the back wall or out of the treasure chest or alligator's mouth.. lol.. it likely will not likely be needed for your tank. I haven't compared any in several years but the last time I did, I chose a Rena air pump for price, quietness, brand reputation (I was already using their Filstar canister filters), etc. I also found that setting it on a small piece of clean carpet reduced the vibration/noise dramatically. The only downside I used to have with Rena is it was a French company (political boycott reasons.. lol) but that was remedied when API bought them. It might also be good to have one in the event of the need to set up an emergency tank to be used with a sponge filter but you might also consider getting a battery operated air pump, instead of an electric powered one (your local fishing store and Wal-Mart should have these for running in live bait buckets) to use in the case of then need to set up an emergency tank and it also could be used on your main tank in the event of a power failure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:31 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Air Pumps? Can I please ask for recommendations on air pumps. One for a single tank of 29 gallons and that is reliable? Sorry I forgot to add this to my previous postings this morning. Another Senior Moment! Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 3:50:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

To me, it depends on the type of group. Some groups like to keep their Members info private but it doesn't really stop email harvesting unless all of the messages are also blocked from public viewing... meaning people would have to join the group to even lurk and read info. Since the messages in this group are not blocked from public viewing, each time a member posts a message, their Yahoo ID is included and oftentimes, the bulk of or all of their email address is also listed. For those of us who get the posts via email, we also get each email address used by the member so an email harvester could get the email addresses anyhow. By moderating new members so they have to now include a "live" comment as to why they want to join the group, it's much harder for spam-bots to join the group (but they still try). The bigger concern affecting many Yahoo Groups is the relatively new Grouply thing, where some members are inadvertently giving Grouply access to their own Yahoo Group accounts, including giving Grouply their Yahoo ID's and passwords, so then Grouply is able to harvest all of the other members to send out their invites. When Grouply was first formed, people HAD to give Grouply access to their Yahoo accounts and passwords but now Grouply has backed off from that rule so it's only optional but still has their default joining page set up where uninformed people might still give Grouply their Yahoo ID's and passwords. There are so many ways for spammers to get people's email addresses, trying to use Yahoo's limited security features to block email harvesting is mostly futile so other than making it harder for spam-bots to join the groups, the blocking of member lists is mostly not needed.... at least not blocking the member lists from actual members. If there are no spam-bots in a group, then there is no major concern to stop other members from being able to locate a fellow member for the purposes of sending a private message, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:35 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Question For Our Moderator's? Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. When you go to these group sites there is always a link on the left hand side of the page titled "Members". If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, all members of the list. Question? Where is ours? Ok, why? Because I have been here for a while now but having the bad memory that I do, and subject to more "senior moments" than I care to admit to, I can't remember the exact date I joined, this "Members" list would help. Just a thought, Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 4:01:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

But was it still your first cup? Although you may be awake, we know from your past admissions, that brain doesn't wake up until at least the second cup. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Combining tanks No Sir! And before you ask........................................................... I was drinking COFFEE at the time! Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Combining tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:12 AM Hmmm, fish swimming from room to room! Are you sure you weren't looking at a pic of Lenny's fish after Katrina struck <g>? Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > Folks, somewhere, somehow, someone has posted pictures of fish swimming from room to room on our groups picture section! I'm sorry I can't provide a link but I do remember seeing it. Apparently the tanks are connected by long clear plastic tubes. I don't think its a joke as it looked real to me. I was over there trying to get some ideas for my own tank by viewing what others had done. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:08 PM > > > > > > > You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) > > http://cgi.ebay com/aquarium- terrarium- bridge-cleaning- frame- tank- multible_ W0QQitemZ3900149 62622QQcmdZViewI temQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_ 0?hash=item39001 4962622&_ trksid=p3286. c0.m14&_trkparms =72%3A1205% 7C66%3A2% 7C65%3A12% 7C39%3A1% 7C240% 3A1318% 7C301%3A0% 7C293%3A1% 7C294%3A50 > > I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. > > As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@ prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks > > This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. > > I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. > > Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 1:21:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 4:04:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34272	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Power Filters---again!

I have in in-line heater, but it’s the Hydor and not the Rena. On the other hand, I’m using them with Rena XP4 filters. FWIW they work great. I haven’t had them long enough to have to clean them I’d expect not to clean more often than I have to clean the tubing which is never in 3 years so far. I flush the tubes but never brushed the entire length. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Agreed Len BUT..................................... I was hoping someone on list either has one or using for a while. Performance? Heater maintenance? Do they require cleaning? What's the "scoop" on this heater? Anyone have one? Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 11:03 PM I'm betting that the Rena SmartHeater will fit on the intake of an AquaClear also.. as well as most other HOB's. You would have to measure and compare the OD (outside diameter) on both systems but just eyeballing the intake tube for the AC-50 and the intake tube for my XP1 and they appear to be the same outside diameter... meaning this device would likely work on any of the AC models although I do not have any larger than the AC-50 so I'm not sure if their larger models have larger intake tubes. Since this Rena SmartHeater advertises fitting on the XP-1 or the Rena HOB, I'm sure it will fit on most HOB's with the round intake tube. One of my Marineland Penguin Bio-Wheels, the Model 200, has more of a rounded corner rectangular intake tube so it wouldn't fit on that model but all of the HOB's that I've had with the round intakes have basically the same size intake on them so I'm sure Rena would have made their SmartHeater to fit on as many other brands/models as possible... otherwise that wouldn't be very "Smart". LOL I guess that's why Rena had their other heaters on clearance prices because they want to push their new SmartHeaters. That is a good idea to incorporate the heater as sliding over the intake tube so it's one less potential "eyesore" in the back of the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Hi Len, The reason why I was leaning on the Rena was this device: http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? pcatid=18444 <http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? pcatid=18444> I have never seen anything like it but in occurred to me that it would allow for a better view inside the tank without all the extra plumbling? Bill --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 12:47 PM If rear space is your primary issue, remember that an HOB does not have to be on the back. It can be on one of the sides. Would that make it an HOS? (Seems appropriate since it's Christmas time.. HO, HO, HO = HO'S ;-)) I've also seen the acronym HOT (Hang On Tank) used but HOB is the most common acronym for hang on back power filters. Of course, hanging it on the side presents issues if you were planning on using a standard (non-custom) cover or hood and lighting. If it's only a 29G, I think I'd go with an AquaClear since even a Rena Filstar XP-1 would be a lot of filtration for a 29G tank. An XP-1 is rated for 250 gallons per hour http://www.rena. net/Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 346 so unless you are going with fish that like a LOT of water movement... like fish that come from a fast flowing stream... then an appropriate sized HOB would be better.. I am not familiar with a canister filter that would be small enough for a 29G tank but there is a way to throttle back the water flow on the XP-1 with one of the attachments that came with it... at least I seem to remember that attachment being an option. I did not install that option when hooking up either of my XP's and the original boxes/parts have been in storage since my move after Hurricane Katrina. You'll see a part called an "Outflow Regulator" listed on this page so I'm guessing that is what was included in the original packaging. http://www.planetre na.com/Filstar- Rena-Parts. html Since behind the tank space is one of your concerns, the plumbing for the Rena could also be inserted into the tank from the sides so the 1" diameter plastic parts that go over the top of the tank frame could go into the tank on one end or one tube on each end... which ever suits your aesthetics and filtration preferences. Of course, if you have baseboards on your walls, the stand would probably be at least 3/4" to 1" away from the actual wall anyhow so the 1" tubes and plastic parts would easily fit behind the tank also. See if you can elicit more info from the Elves (maybe a cookies and milk bribe) about exactly what size tank Santa is bringing.... but then, that might ruin the surprise so maybe this bribe isn't a good thing... and make sure the Elf isn't named Blagojevich or Edwards as the F.B.I. might be listening. It seems Illinois is trying to compete with my beloved Louisiana for the most crooked Governor award (turn on Fox News if you don't know what this means). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:33 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Filters---again! Good Morning! I have an unusual problem about to surface and need some help and advice. It appears ol'bill may be getting a visit from Santa in the manner of a new tank for Christmas, at least a 29-gallon or larger. The tank will come with a stand but no lights or power filters because Santa doesn't know anything about keeping fish! Hey! Give him a break....... .he can't cover all the bases! However, since this is coming as a gift without any out-of-pocket expense to ol'bill, this allows me to use some of my money to buy any kind of filter I want. Now that opens some doors, to say the least. As most of you know, I am fighting a space problem and to that end a canister filter (Rena, I think) would do the job nicely in order to get me closer to the rear wall. But I'm wondering from my readings here on the Internet, are they a better filter or is saving space their only saving grace and also HOW much space can be saved by using one? In other words, are they worth the extra money? The HOB, in contention here would be the Aqua Clear, no debating on that point. Before anyone would ask, No, I will not buy an Eheim, they are just too expensive. Your Thought's Please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:03:47 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34273	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Air Pumps?

That was my reaction. I have over 250 gallons of freshwater tanks and nary an air pump. Except a battery operated one for transporting fish in a bucket, under $10. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Air Pumps? Do you definitely need or want one? Since you are planning on using live plants, you may not want or need one. Your tank will have plenty of water circulation, based on your filter choices, and probably have plenty of surface agitation for proper gas exchange. Unless you like the aesthetics of the bubbles rising along the back wall or out of the treasure chest or alligator's mouth.. lol.. it likely will not likely be needed for your tank. I haven't compared any in several years but the last time I did, I chose a Rena air pump for price, quietness, brand reputation (I was already using their Filstar canister filters), etc. I also found that setting it on a small piece of clean carpet reduced the vibration/noise dramatically. The only downside I used to have with Rena is it was a French company (political boycott reasons.. lol) but that was remedied when API bought them. It might also be good to have one in the event of the need to set up an emergency tank to be used with a sponge filter but you might also consider getting a battery operated air pump, instead of an electric powered one (your local fishing store and Wal-Mart should have these for running in live bait buckets) to use in the case of then need to set up an emergency tank and it also could be used on your main tank in the event of a power failure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:31 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Air Pumps? Can I please ask for recommendations on air pumps. One for a single tank of 29 gallons and that is reliable? Sorry I forgot to add this to my previous postings this morning. Another Senior Moment! Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com> com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 3:50:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34274	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

Yes. So now you know that your tank water should have close to a 7.0 pH subject to lowering once the tank's ecology gets a hold of it. You should decide if you want to keep fish that prefer acidic water since the pH will likely come down even further as you've seen. We still do not know your GH readings. It's unlikely but you could have really hard water with very low carbonate hardness (KH). I wouldn't try to do anything with the chemistry in most cases.. and especially if I do not know all of the numbers. You mentioned early on that you have two other 10G tanks, besides this 46G tank, and the pH is staying around 7.0 in those tanks. Do you have anything different in those or maybe just a lighter bioload of fish/plants? Since you mentioned crushed coral, do you have that in those tanks? I asked about this in one of my earlier replies. Yes, a sudden pH crash can be harmful, even fatal to fish but if your tank is stabile, then as long as you do your twice weekly PWC's and filter maintenance, you should be fine. Once you get the GH test kit and results from your tap water baseline and tank GH, then we'll have more info to know whether you need to do anything... but more than likely, if your fish have been doing well on your water, then you should be fine. I use a few broken off pieces of Cuttle Bone (yes, the kind they feed parakeets) in my cherry shrimp tank filter to add calcium carbonate to the tank.. mainly for the calcium so the shrimp can develop proper shells. Crushed coral will basically do the same thing but Cuttle Bone was easier and cheaper for me and I didn't have to use a filter media bag. When the pieces of Cuttle Bone get so small that I can easily pick them out of the filter reservoir, when doing filter maintenance, then I just dump them and add a few more pieces. A single 99 cent Cuttle Bone lasts for years on a 10G cherry shrimp tank. I also used to drop pieces in my other tank when I had Mystery Snails and they would actually nibble on it... at least it looked like they were. I tried dropping a piece in with my cherry shrimp but they don't touch it as far as food goes so I just put it in the filter reservoir. On a related note, do you have a water softener unit on your home.. or any other kind of home filtration system? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of giuseppesalvato Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH Here are the final results of the water baseline test: Values reading right out of the tap: KH: no reading PH: 8.2 Ammonia: 0.5 Nitrite: 0 Nitrates: 0 After 24 hours: KH: no reading PH: 7.0 Ammonia: 0.5 Nitrite: 0 Nitrates: 0 After 48 hours: KH: no reading PH: 7.0 Ammonia: 0.5 Nitrite: 0 Nitrates: 0 Questions: - Should we consider the test completed? - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden big PH drops? I understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard that a sudden PH drop could shock them. - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral would increase KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as soon as I get it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a year, at most, > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of what is > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. More than likely, > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have been times when > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria > will start converting the ammonia (usually associated with the ammonia part of > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is one of > the reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our drinking water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > KH no reading > PH 8.2 > Ammonia 0.5 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrates 0 > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > Questions: > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their value is 0? I > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > - How about ammonia and KH? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You > either need > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding > > something to raise > the pH > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion in > the city > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then > once the > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. Often, a > utility > > will add > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry issues by > keeping > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming the pH > will > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH (acidic) > and soft > > water. > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact them > to get > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are adding to > > the water. > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to the > fifth > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the condition > you are > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour baseline. It > would > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.htm > > l > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > ml> > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > ml > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > ml> > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final results. > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result on > both tap > > water and tank water > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March 08) > > to > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 > gallon tank > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the > > filter > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2-3 > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > > - I don't have a GH test > > - I use tap water from public utility > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "goldlenny_blogspot" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of > > your > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > > hours > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the > > rest > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us > > > those numbers. > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are > > you > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? > > What > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 > > neon > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 > > > > cory > > > cats > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > Parameters are: > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for > > > > the > > > test > > > > kit) > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow > > > from > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon > > > > tanks > > > with > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > > capacity > > > and > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > > capacity > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 6:06:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

Yeah.. I just check the "My groups" page which is where you can see all of the groups that you belong to.. http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups but that page doesn't show when you joined any of your groups either. If you post in a group, you could always do a search in the Messages section for your own name/yahoo ID and find your first post. Or if you use Gmail or other unlimited type webmail as storage for email, you could search that for when you got the "Welcome To The Group" message from a particular group. If you save all emails on your computer with Outlook, Outlook Express, etc., then you could search there.... but no simple place for "When did I join" if the Members section is blocked. Of course, if the Members section is blocked to the Members, you could always ask your friendly mod. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? John, Thanks for the refresher. I do recall a while back, some groups I were on lacked the "Members" selection in their menu's, which always puzzled me. Since I've become a moderator on many of these groups I don't see that option as being missing and is why I suggested it may only be for the mods -- although i wasn't quite sure. Still fail to see why some groups offer this for the general membership and some don't. I think there are still some groups I'm on, just as a member, which don't offer it but I haven't taken particular notice. I'm fairly sure you should still be able to go to your own membership page in case you want to change or add to your profile (or add/change an email address) -- but that page does not have your sign-up/acceptance date. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > Ray > > It is only available in this group for moderators I think. > > All groups have the option of posting it or not. Some opt not to for privacy reasons. This is especially true of large groups like this. > > John in Neva\da > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 9:37 AM > > > > > > > Bill, The Members selection in the left-hand menu is there on the > Group Site -- at least it is on my Home page. If its not on your Home > page, I can't figure why (unless that feature is only available > to Moderators); you of course need to be signed in, but I'm assuming > you already are when looking for it. Perhaps another Moderator could > fill you in further. You joined on October 11, 2008. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > > Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. > > When you go to these group sites there is always a link on the left > > hand side of the page titled "Members". > > > > If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, all > > members of the list. > > > > Question? Where is ours? Ok, why? Because I have been here for a > > while now but having the bad memory that I do, and subject to more > > "senior moments" than I care to admit to, I can't remember the exact > > date I joined, this "Members" list would help. > > > > Just a thought, > > > > Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 7:05:49 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34276	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Ray, In a recent reply by DebR, she mentioned one of the fish was appearing bloated (her quote: "because CB seems a bit rounder than usual") which could be internal bacterial but could also be attributable to osmoregulation issues and holding fluids from the salted water treatment. Another reason we thought it might be bacterial rather than fungal was that she was treating with Malachite Green early on which wasn't having any effect on the fungus. OK. I've got my whiteboard out, now where's House? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In going back over the threads of this subject, I can't find any reference to any internal disorders, although I do remember some members being suggested to feed peas to their fish to help them with digestive disorders, although I don't recall seeing that here. There was also some talk about fin and tail rot, but again, I can't find this here in this long thread -- direct me if I missed anything on either of these issues. I do see references made to "white stuff" on the fish and more recently, "cottony stuff" on the caudal and dorsal bases on both CB and Raven -- which to me strongly indicates the manifestation of Fungus on these fish. If Columnaris is involved, and mouth "fungus" as one of these forms can take on this appearance when first starting, I haven't seen anything pointing towards that -- except for "white stuff," but bodily Columnaris is rarely that localized -- any whiteness as a result of this disease would be more generally spread. Its the "cottony" appearance that pinpoints it right back to Fungus when associated with localized areas. Fortunately, these terrific medications (Nitrofurazone and Furadolizone) cover all bases and are greatly anti-fungal as well as being great broad-spectrum anti-biotics. Aside only from Triple- Sulfa (a primarily gram-negative antibiotic), I know of no better medication for treating Columnaris, even though Oxytetracycline would be as equal, and at the same pH and hardness values -- up to pH 8.0 in hard water. But, these two medications (Triple-Sulfa and Oxytetracycline) are not without their drawbacks of erradicating your nitrifying bacteria. I won't rule out Oxolinic Acid as a good treatment against Columnaris either. Note; if the pH is over 8.0, you want to go to Triple-Sulfa, if the water is high in calcium and magnesium (which it often accompanies), Nitrofurans lose their potency above pH 8.0 as they bind up with these elements. For strickly fungal infections, while the two afore-mentioned medications will act on this, the two 'zones' (Nitrofurazone and Furadolizone) in combination are more effective than either one of these -- and not being directly derived from bacteria culturing as a product of them (as are many of the meds in the Penacyllin/Kanamycin, etc. families) they are said not to interfere with the nitrifying bacteria cultures. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > DebR, > > Disregard most of my previous reply and follow Ray's advice. He's much more > experienced than I am. I know the thread was started as a fungus problem > but then I thought that somewhere along the line, you said it looked more > like Columnaris (bacterial.. that often appears to be fungal). > > Unless Ray comments on this post, follow his treatment directions below. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > (You'll also > see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock > solution > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock > solution > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs > of > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution > uses 20 > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg > malachite per > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > Higher dose only > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 > ml stock > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other > day for a > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > every three > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of > stock > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only > be used with > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to > a wound, > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's > eyes and > > gills. > > (END SNIP) > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of > 25% PWC's > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally > treated > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove > the rest. > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > will be the > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > this fresh > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > their > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. > were you > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > interdiction or > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help > with your > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > treatment. > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt > but DO NOT > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > treatment unless > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's > OK. It's > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from > a very > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet > store > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > fish a 24 > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > gallon), which is > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a > dose of 1 > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this > salt in a > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the > tank, > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added > 6 > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to > the > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, > add another > > do<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34277	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?

You were to bored with it to read the entries below - one said: Ha! You can see the back of my head in one of those photos�and I'm reading the Onion. That was YEARS ago! The 2nd, 3rd and last image is from the Liquid Potion Lounge in Evanston, IL (RIP). I used to love that place. This would often go up the tubes, but they'd rarely make it all the way to the other fish tank. I remember it being days before I finally saw a fish make it all the way across. Looked really cool though. I read it because I saw a video once of a tank with a second tank that went quite a ways up. It had Chiclids in it too and they would go up and down the thing. Actually I liked it better than the highway thing. Still looked like a disaster waiting to happen. On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Those are the same pics as the ones that were in the article that I > recently > posted a link to. I'm not sure if Aaron... is the owner of the pics or were > just sharing snagged duplicates from that website or if the website snagged > them from Aaron... or they both snagged them from someone else. The pics > appear to be from a coffee shop or other restaurant type biz. I don't see > anything in the below link that identifies the location of this fish > pipeline. > > http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/ > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:15 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Connecting Fish Tanks? > > This was the link from our photo section: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/list > > > > The album is listed under this name -------in case the link does not work: > FisHighway > > See Ray! I told you I was drinking coffee! Another bad habit! I'm always > drinking coffee. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/10/2008 3:13:13 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34278	From: bill1433	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Combining tanks

To be accurate and honest with the group, I just happened to be on the 3rd cup of the first pot!  On past postings?    I don't get the messages and comments about the tank connection business that I posted from our group web-site.  Were the photo's fake?  I know there is an Acrylic Tank manufacture that does make twin 40 or 50 gallon cubes.  The two cubes are linked by two clear plastic tunnels.  Of course, how they got or trained the fish to go in there at all amazed me.   Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Combining tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 5:04 PM But was it still your first cup? Although you may be awake, we know from your past admissions, that brain doesn't wake up until at least the second cup. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Combining tanks No Sir! And before you ask......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ..... I was drinking COFFEE at the time! Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Combining tanks To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:12 AM Hmmm, fish swimming from room to room! Are you sure you weren't looking at a pic of Lenny's fish after Katrina struck <g>? Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > > Folks, somewhere, somehow, someone has posted pictures of fish swimming from room to room on our groups picture section! I'm sorry I can't provide a link but I do remember seeing it. Apparently the tanks are connected by long clear plastic tubes. I don't think its a joke as it looked real to me. I was over there trying to get some ideas for my own tank by viewing what others had done. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > wrote: > > From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@... > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:08 PM > > > > > > > You can link them, not sure about cat proofing them though :) > > http://cgi.ebay. com/aquarium- terrarium- bridge-cleaning- frame- tank- multible_ W0QQitemZ3900149 62622QQcmdZViewI temQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_ 0?hash=item39001 4962622&_ trksid=p3286. c0.m14&_trkparms =72%3A1205% 7C66%3A2% 7C65%3A12% 7C39%3A1% 7C240% 3A1318% 7C301%3A0% 7C293%3A1% 7C294%3A50 > > I bought this same unit from the same seller a few months ago but have not had a chance to set it up. > > As a child I remember going into Woolworths and looking at the tanks and they had a bridge but not in a peak, it was more ractangular. I always thought it was neat as a kid. Too lazy right now to make one so I bought the one like the link. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@ prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 4:41 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Combining tanks > > This is purely conjecture at the moment, but I was just thinking. If I were to get another 20G tank or two off Freecycle or the like, could I set them up and join them together with clear pvc tunnels for the fish to travel through? I suppose if the goldfish do reach 6" that would have to be one wide tube for it to be safe for them to travel through. I was just wondering if anyone has tried something like this and if you all can think of any other pros or cons. > > I'm still petitioning Santa for the big tank, but Santa's kind of broke this year. He helped us out a lot over the summer with hospital copays and a wheelchair ramp. > > Hmmmm . . . another thought20. . . the tubes would have to be able to withstand a really curious cat or four. Strapped to the wall? Hmmmm . . . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ __ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 1:21:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 4:04:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34279	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank

You want to try and find books that were written in the last 10 years or so. The hobby seems to have advanced quite a bit recently and many of the older books were they best info then, but sadly have been proven wrong in recent years... This is what I have figured out in trying to read up on the topic myself. I really do not know anything much from experience yet as I have just started as well as you. Do not forget the library, a good cheap source if they have any current books, or can bring them in from larger ones they are associated with. That is where I have been getting my info book fix... On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Daniel Richie <sunfish3714@...>wrote: > Where should i go for the book, and what would you suggest? Also, is > there a list of the online sites with good aquarium need deals anywhere? > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...<tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:33 AM > > > You really need some good books on the subject. > > You should get fish that will adapt to your local water conditions - > hardness as well as ph. A local fishstore that keeps its fish in tap water > is your best resource on that, and also, their fish will better survive the > > transition to the tap water in your tank. (Of course you use a product that > > removes chlorine, chloramines and associated ammonia.) > > The nitrogen wastes ened to be checked every day or two until the nitrogen > cycle gets going and then every week is fine unless there is a problem. > > Yes, most tropical fish need water 75 to 80 degrees. A couple of heaters > is your bet there. > > In general a bigger tank is easier to maintain than a small one. So start > with 20 gallons, 30 even better, not 5 or 10. > > Getting a fish tank going is a very educational project if your school > biology section will let you get one going. > > Petsmart sells what you need to get an aquarium going, but you can often > get > better deals online. Drs. Foster and Smith, Pet Solutions, Marineland. > And others. > > I'm pretty new to tropical tanks and I elected not to do plants, atleast > for > now. I decorated with plastic plants. Make sure your gravel and any rocks > don't react chemically with the water - that's a major problem with any > sort > of limestone or coral-based rock. You have to be careful that your gravel > taht you buy at the fish store looks smooth and rounded and says it's > chemically nonreactive. It may be coated to make it that way; that's OK. > If you're feeling adventurous and want to put the time into it there are > cheaper ways to find gravel. > > An aquarium is a major time committment, and you have to be willing to keep > > on cleaning the tank, testing the water, and feeding the fish. If you do > get tired of it you can usually recover a quarter to a third of your > investment pretty quickly on Craigs List. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sunfish3714" <sunfish3714@ yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:08 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank > > Hey, guys. > > I was thinking about creating a tropical tank with some kids in > my crew at my high school. I have had coolwater tanks with fish species > from the perch, sunfish, and minnow families. I never really had > anything that required a heater. So, I have a few questions. > > Where should I keep my pH? I was told that the temperature should > be staying around 74-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that correct? How often > should I check for nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia? Where would you > suggest that I get the chemical tests for those things, if you would > suggest chemical tests? Would you suggest a planted tank, knowing that > we all are new to tropical tanks? Are there any plants that are > relatively easy to maintain? We need to make this an informational tank > that is "pretty" as well. I had envisioned an Amazon basin themed tank. > What are your thoughts on this? Is there any other place in the world > that has a great diversity of species to choose from? What are your > thoughts on this? > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34280	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

Agreed, hiding the members page doesn't stop harvesting entirely, but it forces the harvester to open most messages to get the full email address and it protects all of the lurkers who never post at all. It's kind of like putting a club on your car. Really all it does is slow the process down, but if you make it tedious enough, they look elsewhere for an easier target. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question For Our Moderator's? To me, it depends on the type of group. Some groups like to keep their Members info private but it doesn't really stop email harvesting unless all of the messages are also blocked from public viewing... meaning people would have to join the group to even lurk and read info. Since the messages in this group are not blocked from public viewing, each time a member posts a message, their Yahoo ID is included and oftentimes, the bulk of or all of their email address is also listed. For those of us who get the posts via email, we also get each email address used by the member so an email harvester could get the email addresses anyhow. By moderating new members so they have to now include a "live" comment as to why they want to join the group, it's much harder for spam-bots to join the group (but they still try). The bigger concern affecting many Yahoo Groups is the relatively new Grouply thing, where some members are inadvertently giving Grouply access to their own Yahoo Group accounts, including giving Grouply their Yahoo ID's and passwords, so then Grouply is able to harvest all of the other members to send out their invites. When Grouply was first formed, people HAD to give Grouply access to their Yahoo accounts and passwords but now Grouply has backed off from that rule so it's only optional but still has their default joining page set up where uninformed people might still give Grouply their Yahoo ID's and passwords. There are so many ways for spammers to get people's email addresses, trying to use Yahoo's limited security features to block email harvesting is mostly futile so other than making it harder for spam-bots to join the groups, the blocking of member lists is mostly not needed.... at least not blocking the member lists from actual members. If there are no spam-bots in a group, then there is no major concern to stop other members from being able to locate a fellow member for the purposes of sending a private message, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:35 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Question For Our Moderator's? Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. When you go to these group sites there is always a link on the left hand side of the page titled "Members". If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, all members of the list. Question? Where is ours? Ok, why? Because I have been here for a while now but having the bad memory that I do, and subject to more "senior moments" than I care to admit to, I can't remember the exact date I joined, this "Members" list would help. Just a thought, Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 4:01:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34281	From: Jennie	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

I went to HomeDepot this morning and got some 1" foam insualtion sheets. Thanks to everyone for all the info. Jennie   --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:25 AM You know what. I've had good luck with simply putting two large towels over the tank at night. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film Oh.. this reminds me. I already answered this post a little earlier but if you really wanted to provide thermal insulation to the tank, you could get a 4'x8' sheet of the pink or white styrofoam (1" thick) and cut panels to fit on the tank. It's what people do in very cold areas to help protect their tanks in the event of a catastrophic winter-time power failure. Putting a sheet of this down first and then setting the tank on top will insulate the bottom of the tank. As I said earlier, using this type of film on car windows or home windows that get a lot of sunlight will help keep some of the sun light created heat but it will not do much for the actual ambient/thermal temperature exchange that takes place. There is a clear plastic film that people will apply to the inside of the window box so that it creates an airspace between the outside window and the inside room and that will do a lot to keep cold out and warmth in but that film is taped to the wall around the window box opening and then a hair dryer is used to make the clear plastic film shrink to make a nice tight mostly clear view in case you still want to open the curtains to see out. This works similarly to adding storm windows to the outside of your normal windows so there is a 1/2" to 1" gap between the existing windows and the storm windows so that dead air space acts as an insulator. Man.. I'm starting to feel like I'm working now with all this home repair/renovation/ handyman talk going on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] window film Is your aquarium in a room that's not room temperature? or do you keep your house temps low? I can't see needing to insulate your aquarium unless you have it in a cold room where the heater would have to work harder to keep it at a higher temp. If you don't use a heater and keep it in a room that's in the 70's then perhaps insulating it may help a little so that the heat doesn't flucuate as much when the room temps drop. But if you're using a heater and the tank is indoors then insulation may not help a whole lot, but I could be wrong, I'm not an expert on insulation LOL. Amber jjmiltner wrote: > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of > the heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is > on. I was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it > was a good idea? > > Jennie > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:37:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34282	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

Glass itself is a pretty good blocker of UV rays, so the 90% they are claiming, is that the film itself, or the amount that does not penetrate the glass and film? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it will > block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes through > from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the thin > layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to 99% of > UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that I've > ever tried that! LOL > > None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out during the > summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself isn't > heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal heat > loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of morning > or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little cooler > but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the ambient > temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. > > To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated windows > (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those windows or > the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall > stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the > plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of > insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would work > during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air conditioning. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jennie > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm> > This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an plastic > aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at night > with insulation. > Thanks > > Jennie > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective film > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating up the > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage and > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like acrylic > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron thick > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. It > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I doubt > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes and > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like fiberglass, > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air layer, > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test this > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain glass > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a nickel, > there's none. > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in chemical > composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much different > chemical composition. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it on > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the heat. > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good idea? > > Jennie > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 Tested on: 12/9/2008 10:23:11 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34283	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

House would take until they're almost dead just to determine it's not Sarcoidosis. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Ray, In a recent reply by DebR, she mentioned one of the fish was appearing bloated (her quote: "because CB seems a bit rounder than usual") which could be internal bacterial but could also be attributable to osmoregulation issues and holding fluids from the salted water treatment. Another reason we thought it might be bacterial rather than fungal was that she was treating with Malachite Green early on which wasn't having any effect on the fungus. OK. I've got my whiteboard out, now where's House? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In going back over the threads of this subject, I can't find any reference to any internal disorders, although I do remember some members being suggested to feed peas to their fish to help them with digestive disorders, although I don't recall seeing that here. There was also some talk about fin and tail rot, but again, I can't find this here in this long thread -- direct me if I missed anything on either of these issues. I do see references made to "white stuff" on the fish and more recently, "cottony stuff" on the caudal and dorsal bases on both CB and Raven -- which to me strongly indicates the manifestation of Fungus on these fish. If Columnaris is involved, and mouth "fungus" as one of these forms can take on this appearance when first starting, I haven't seen anything pointing towards that -- except for "white stuff," but bodily Columnaris is rarely that localized -- any whiteness as a result of this disease would be more generally spread. Its the "cottony" appearance that pinpoints it right back to Fungus when associated with localized areas. Fortunately, these terrific medications (Nitrofurazone and Furadolizone) cover all bases and are greatly anti-fungal as well as being great broad-spectrum anti-biotics. Aside only from Triple- Sulfa (a primarily gram-negative antibiotic), I know of no better medication for treating Columnaris, even though Oxytetracycline would be as equal, and at the same pH and hardness values -- up to pH 8.0 in hard water. But, these two medications (Triple-Sulfa and Oxytetracycline) are not without their drawbacks of erradicating your nitrifying bacteria. I won't rule out Oxolinic Acid as a good treatment against Columnaris either. Note; if the pH is over 8.0, you want to go to Triple-Sulfa, if the water is high in calcium and magnesium (which it often accompanies), Nitrofurans lose their potency above pH 8.0 as they bind up with these elements. For strickly fungal infections, while the two afore-mentioned medications will act on this, the two 'zones' (Nitrofurazone and Furadolizone) in combination are more effective than either one of these -- and not being directly derived from bacteria culturing as a product of them (as are many of the meds in the Penacyllin/Kanamycin, etc. families) they are said not to interfere with the nitrifying bacteria cultures. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > DebR, > > Disregard most of my previous reply and follow Ray's advice. He's much more > experienced than I am. I know the thread was started as a fungus problem > but then I thought that somewhere along the line, you said it looked more > like Columnaris (bacterial.. that often appears to be fungal). > > Unless Ray comments on this post, follow his treatment directions below. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > (You'll also > see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34284	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?

Harl, If you were talking about all the blog comments, you're right.. I didn't read very many of them. Since some of the top comments were from folks that didn't even understand how this could possibly work, and then others gave some kind of convoluted lost-in-space explanation, I figured most of the comments were from pinheads.. so I had to stop. LOL Here are five of the top eight answers... when I just had to stop reading... which is a sad commentary on education in America.. or wherever these folks may be from but since I'm American, I can only really blast my own country's education/political system. LOL ------- Kelwin December 23rd, 2007 at 3:00 am That is pretty friggin' awesome. How does it stay up in there? water usually falls to the lowest path of least resistance, right? I would think that it would just fall out of the pipeline back into the tanks causing them to overflow. is it pumped into the pipeline? or is it just a fluke of physics that make it work? ------- Bryan December 23rd, 2007 at 4:30 am Yeah, I don't understand this either for some reason. I also think the water would fall right out or, unless the fish tanks were sealed, or there is some advanced knowledge of pressure going on here, Will have to test it. ------- Evan December 23rd, 2007 at 4:31 am Kelwin, it has to do with the vapour pressure of water. In order for the water to flow out of the top "pipeline" section, it would have to leave an area with no liquid in it, just water vapour. But at room temperature water wants to stay a liquid, and the attraction between the water molecules is much stronger than the gravity pulling them down. ------- TJ December 23rd, 2007 at 4:44 am @Kelwin: I was wondering the same thing. If you pump the excess water into the top then the fish won't be able to swim up there because of the water flowing downwards at high speed, thus rendering your pipeline useless. ------- Evan December 23rd, 2007 at 4:47 am I would assume the water stays in there because the whole system is pressurized. That is the only way I would imagine it is possible. ------- The above five would make good guests on Jay Leno's Jaywalking segment. LOL I did read down more and more looking for your comment and saw someone named Chris identify the photos from Potion's Lounge.. but this comment epitomizes my thoughts. I also saw the post from "360" with the comment. ------- Matt January 3rd, 2008 at 8:04 pm My gawd, the ignorance of basic physics is amazing. "How does it stay up in there?" "I don't understand this either for some reason" "I would assume the water stays in there because the whole system is pressurized" "this doesn't seem physically possible." "Gravity would have the water flow down from the pipes and overflow the tanks" "Do you use large pumps to avoid tank overflow?" This is elementary school physics here. Put down the remote control, and pick up an encyclopedia people. ------- Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harl Myers Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Connecting Fish Tanks? You were to bored with it to read the entries below - one said: Ha! You can see the back of my head in one of those photos.and I'm reading the Onion. That was YEARS ago! The 2nd, 3rd and last image is from the Liquid Potion Lounge in Evanston, IL (RIP). I used to love that place. This would often go up the tubes, but they'd rarely make it all the way to the other fish tank. I remember it being days before I finally saw a fish make it all the way across. Looked really cool though. I read it because I saw a video once of a tank with a second tank that went quite a ways up. It had Chiclids in it too and they would go up and down the thing. Actually I liked it better than the highway thing. Still looked like a disaster waiting to happen. On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Those are the same pics as the ones that were in the article that I > recently posted a link to. I'm not sure if Aaron... is the owner of > the pics or were just sharing snagged duplicates from that website or > if the website snagged them from Aaron... or they both snagged them > from someone else. The pics appear to be from a coffee shop or other > restaurant type biz. I don't see anything in the below link that > identifies the location of this fish pipeline. > > http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/ > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:15 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Connecting Fish Tanks? > > This was the link from our photo section: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/ > list > > > > The album is listed under this name -------in case the link does not work: > FisHighway > > See Ray! I told you I was drinking coffee! Another bad habit! I'm > always drinking coffee. > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 8:16:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

Does that mean I have to open my southern-exposure windows for my wintertime no-tan-lines sunbathing efforts? Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film Glass itself is a pretty good blocker of UV rays, so the 90% they are claiming, is that the film itself, or the amount that does not penetrate the glass and film? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it will > block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes through > from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the thin > layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to 99% of > UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that I've > ever tried that! LOL > > None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out during the > summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself isn't > heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal heat > loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of morning > or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little cooler > but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the ambient > temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. > > To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated windows > (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those windows or > the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall > stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the > plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of > insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would work > during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air conditioning. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Jennie > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm> > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm> > > This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an plastic > aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at night > with insulation. > Thanks > > Jennie > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective film > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating up the > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage and > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like acrylic > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron thick > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. It > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I doubt > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes and > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like fiberglass, > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air layer, > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test this > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain glass > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a nickel, > there's none. > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in chemical > composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much different > chemical composition. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used it on > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the heat. > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good idea? > > Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 8:26:19 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34286	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Did you mean for me to get the water "no less than 3 tsp per gallon" or no MORE than 3 tsp per gallon? No LESS would mean I want 3 tsp or more of salt in each gallon of water. Where can I find a kit for testing salinity? I don't seem to be very savvy in finding products for fish. Now, if you want instructions for building a wheeled cart for a paraplegic rat, I'm your gal. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still considered within acceptable limits. The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can take more but not by a whole lot. The general question of whether you can add medications while there is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2752208> or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2754035> > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > (You'll also > see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her (?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock > solution > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock > solution > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs > of > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution > uses 20 > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg > malachite per > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > Higher dose only > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 > ml stock > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other > day for a > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > every three > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of > stock > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only > be used with > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to > a wound, > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's > eyes and > > gills. > > (END SNIP) > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of > 25% PWC's > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally > treated > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove > the rest. > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > will be the > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > this fresh > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > their > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. > were you > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > interdiction or > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help > with your > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > treatment. > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt > but DO NOT > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > treatment unless > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's > OK. It's > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from > a very > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet > store > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > fish a 24 > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > gallon), which is > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a > dose of 1 > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this > salt in a > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the > tank, > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added > 6 > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to > the > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, > add another > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 > hours > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons per > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting > your > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish > to adjust > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if > and/or when > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would > then add 15 > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add > it back > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one > after the > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a > chance to > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > happening to the > > fish. > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better > and it's also > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like > I did with > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my > previous > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to > the webpage > > and read those posts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this > is under > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few > new white > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems > to have > > started on the body. > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that > I can't get > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning > salt, so I > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G > tank, > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > times 12 hours > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > therapeutic > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did > see on the > > company website that they can be used together). The problem is > that they > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is > that > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank > is, yet? > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll > retest > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > Nitrate: >10 & > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish > are in now. > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were > all gone by > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least > another 6 > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change > and fewer > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was > run for a > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned > off and my > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > components on eBay, > > but never got around to it. > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > arrived in a > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > back problems > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they > needed a new > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about > a year in > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > don't know > > when or how that one died. > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and > then > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I > believe the > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning > was done. > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > sponge and > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I > picked up a > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that > it didn't > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > biofilter, but > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's > enough > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came > with the > > goldfish. > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does > that to me > > sometimes, lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > > Tested on: 12/9/2008 5:34:19 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34287	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?

Wow. That's all I can say is wow. And I would love to talk to those people an ask "what the heck are you talking about?!!!" Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:16:47 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Connecting Fish Tanks? Harl, If you were talking about all the blog comments, you're right.. I didn't read very many of them. Since some of the top comments were from folks that didn't even understand how this could possibly work, and then others gave some kind of convoluted lost-in-space explanation, I figured most of the comments were from pinheads.. so I had to stop. LOL Here are five of the top eight answers... when I just had to stop reading... which is a sad commentary on education in America.. or wherever these folks may be from but since I'm American, I can only really blast my own country's education/political system. LOL ------- Kelwin December 23rd, 2007 at 3:00 am That is pretty friggin' awesome. How does it stay up in there? water usually falls to the lowest path of least resistance, right? I would think that it would just fall out of the pipeline back into the tanks causing them to overflow. is it pumped into the pipeline? or is it just a fluke of physics that make it work? ------- Bryan December 23rd, 2007 at 4:30 am Yeah, I don't understand this either for some reason. I also think the water would fall right out or, unless the fish tanks were sealed, or there is some advanced knowledge of pressure going on here, Will have to test it. ------- Evan December 23rd, 2007 at 4:31 am Kelwin, it has to do with the vapour pressure of water. In order for the water to flow out of the top "pipeline" section, it would have to leave an area with no liquid in it, just water vapour. But at room temperature water wants to stay a liquid, and the attraction between the water molecules is much stronger than the gravity pulling them down. ------- TJ December 23rd, 2007 at 4:44 am @Kelwin: I was wondering the same thing. If you pump the excess water into the top then the fish won't be able to swim up there because of the water flowing downwards at high speed, thus rendering your pipeline useless. ------- Evan December 23rd, 2007 at 4:47 am I would assume the water stays in there because the whole system is pressurized. That is the only way I would imagine it is possible. ------- The above five would make good guests on Jay Leno's Jaywalking segment. LOL I did read down more and more looking for your comment and saw someone named Chris identify the photos from Potion's Lounge.. but this comment epitomizes my thoughts. I also saw the post from "360" with the comment. ------- Matt January 3rd, 2008 at 8:04 pm My gawd, the ignorance of basic physics is amazing. "How does it stay up in there?" "I don't understand this either for some reason" "I would assume the water stays in there because the whole system is pressurized" "this doesn't seem physically possible." "Gravity would have the water flow down from the pipes and overflow the tanks" "Do you use large pumps to avoid tank overflow?" This is elementary school physics here. Put down the remote control, and pick up an encyclopedia people. ------- Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harl Myers Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Connecting Fish Tanks? You were to bored with it to read the entries below - one said: Ha! You can see the back of my head in one of those photos.and I'm reading the Onion. That was YEARS ago! The 2nd, 3rd and last image is from the Liquid Potion Lounge in Evanston, IL (RIP). I used to love that place. This would often go up the tubes, but they'd rarely make it all the way to the other fish tank. I remember it being days before I finally saw a fish make it all the way across. Looked really cool though. I read it because I saw a video once of a tank with a second tank that went quite a ways up. It had Chiclids in it too and they would go up and down the thing. Actually I liked it better than the highway thing. Still looked like a disaster waiting to happen. On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Those are the same pics as the ones that were in the article that I > recently posted a link to. I'm not sure if Aaron... is the owner of > the pics or were just sharing snagged duplicates from that website or > if the website snagged them from Aaron... or they both snagged them > from someone else. The pics appear to be from a coffee shop or other > restaurant type biz. I don't see anything in the below link that > identifies the location of this fish pipeline. > > http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/ > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:15 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Connecting Fish Tanks? > > This was the link from our photo section: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/ > list > > > > The album is listed under this name -------in case the link does not work: > FisHighway > > See Ray! I told you I was drinking coffee! Another bad habit! I'm > always drinking coffee. > > Bill > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 8:16:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34288	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Air Pumps?

I use a fusion quiet power air pump for my decorations, it's very quiet and it has an adjustable knob on the top so you can pick how fast you want it to push the air. The feet are little rubber pads so it doesn't seem to make a lot of vibration noise as well. hope this helps Bill :) Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > That was my reaction. I have over 250 gallons of freshwater tanks and nary > an air pump. Except a battery operated one for transporting fish in a > bucket, under $10. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Air Pumps? > > Do you definitely need or want one? > > Since you are planning on using live plants, you may not want or need one. > Your tank will have plenty of water circulation, based on your filter > choices, and probably have plenty of surface agitation for proper gas > exchange. > > Unless you like the aesthetics of the bubbles rising along the back > wall or > out of the treasure chest or alligator's mouth.. lol.. it likely will not > likely be needed for your tank. I haven't compared any in several > years but > the last time I did, I chose a Rena air pump for price, quietness, brand > reputation (I was already using their Filstar canister filters), etc. I > also found that setting it on a small piece of clean carpet reduced the > vibration/noise dramatically. The only downside I used to have with Rena > is it was a French company (political boycott reasons.. lol) but that was > remedied when API bought them. > > It might also be good to have one in the event of the need to set up an > emergency tank to be used with a sponge filter but you might also consider > getting a battery operated air pump, instead of an electric powered one > (your local fishing store and Wal-Mart should have these for running > in live > bait buckets) to use in the case of then need to set up an emergency tank > and it also could be used on your main tank in the event of a power > failure. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:31 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Air Pumps? > > Can I please ask for recommendations on air pumps. One for a single > tank of > 29 gallons and that is reliable? Sorry I forgot to add this to my previous > postings this morning. > > Another Senior Moment! > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com>> com> : Outbound > message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/10/2008 3:50:26 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

But think of all the neat tests that can be performed until we figure it out. ;-) BTW.. I've seen people bring their goldfish to a veterinarian for treatment, surgery, x-rays and ultrasounds, even necropsies to determine death... nobody has sprung for an MRI yet... that I know of. I like my fish but I'm not sure I'd go to that financial level for treatment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? House would take until they're almost dead just to determine it's not Sarcoidosis. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Ray, In a recent reply by DebR, she mentioned one of the fish was appearing bloated (her quote: "because CB seems a bit rounder than usual") which could be internal bacterial but could also be attributable to osmoregulation issues and holding fluids from the salted water treatment. Another reason we thought it might be bacterial rather than fungal was that she was treating with Malachite Green early on which wasn't having any effect on the fungus. OK. I've got my whiteboard out, now where's House? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In going back over the threads of this subject, I can't find any reference to any internal disorders, although I do remember some members being suggested to feed peas to their fish to help them with digestive disorders, although I don't recall seeing that here. There was also some talk about fin and tail rot, but again, I can't find this here in this long thread -- direct me if I missed anything on either of these issues. I do see references made to "white stuff" on the fish and more recently, "cottony stuff" on the caudal and dorsal bases on both CB and Raven -- which to me strongly indicates the manifestation of Fungus on these fish. If Columnaris is involved, and mouth "fungus" as one of these forms can take on this appearance when first starting, I haven't seen anything pointing towards that -- except for "white stuff," but bodily Columnaris is rarely that localized -- any whiteness as a result of this disease would be more generally spread. Its the "cottony" appearance that pinpoints it right back to Fungus when associated with localized areas. Fortunately, these terrific medications (Nitrofurazone and Furadolizone) cover all bases and are greatly anti-fungal as well as being great broad-spectrum anti-biotics. Aside only from Triple- Sulfa (a primarily gram-negative antibiotic), I know of no better medication for treating Columnaris, even though Oxytetracycline would be as equal, and at the same pH and hardness values -- up to pH 8.0 in hard water. But, these two medications (Triple-Sulfa and Oxytetracycline) are not without their drawbacks of erradicating your nitrifying bacteria. I won't rule out Oxolinic Acid as a good treatment against Columnaris either. Note; if the pH is over 8.0, you want to go to Triple-Sulfa, if the water is high in calcium and magnesium (which it often accompanies), Nitrofurans lose their potency above pH 8.0 as they bind up with these elements. For strickly fungal infections, while the two afore-mentioned medications will act on this, the two 'zones' (Nitrofurazone and Furadolizone) in combination are more effective than either one of these -- and not being directly derived from bacteria culturing as a product of them (as are many of the meds in the Penacyllin/Kanamycin, etc. families) they are said not to interfere with the nitrifying bacteria cultures. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > DebR, > > Disregard most of my previous reply and follow Ray's advice. He's much more > experienced than I am. I know the thread was started as a fungus problem > but then I thought that somewhere along the line, you said it looked more > like Columnaris (bacterial.. that often appears to be fungal). > > Unless Ray comments on this post, follow his treatment directions below. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > > or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > (You'll also > see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > > > > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock > solution > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock > solution > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs > of > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution > uses 20 > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg > malachite per > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > Higher dose only > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 > ml stock > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other > day for a > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > every three > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of > stock > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only > be used with > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to > a wound, > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's > eyes and > > gills. > > (END SNIP) > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of > 25% PWC's > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally > treated > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove > the rest. > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > will be the > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > this fresh > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > their > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. > were you > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > interdiction or > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help > with your > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > treatment. > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt > but DO NOT > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > treatment unless > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's > OK. It's > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from > a very > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet > store > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > fish a 24 > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > gallon), which is > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a > dose of 1 > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this > salt in a > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the > tank, > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added > 6 > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to > the > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, > add another > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 > hours > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons per > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting > your > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish > to adjust > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if > and/or when > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would > then add 15 > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add > it back > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one > after the > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a > chance to > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > happening to the > > fish. > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better > and it's also > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like > I did with > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my > previous > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to > the webpage > > and read those posts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this > is under > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few > new white > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems > to have > > started on the body. > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that > I can't get > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning > salt, so I > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G > tank, > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > times 12 hours > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > therapeutic > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did > see on the > > company website that they can be used together). The problem is > that they > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is > that > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank > is, yet? > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll > retest > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > Nitrate: >10 & > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish > are in now. > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were > all gone by > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least > another 6 > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change > and fewer > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was > run for a > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned > off and my > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > components on eBay, > > but never got around to it. > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > arrived in a > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > back problems > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they > needed a new > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about > a year in > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > don't know > > when or how that one died. > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and > then > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I > believe the > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning > was done. > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > sponge and > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I > picked up a > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that > it didn't > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > biofilter, but > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's > enough > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came > with the > > goldfish. > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does > that to me > > sometimes, lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 8:57:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

I'm not sure how accurate they are but here's one... https://www.pondrx.com/products/16179.html I would save the 10 dollars for the larger tank. As long as you're not over the 5 teaspoons per gallon (0.5%), you'll be OK. Anywhere between 0.2% and 0.5% will have therapeutic benefits for sick fish. Then a series of 25% PWC's will bring the level down to negligible levels. After the fish are healed up, you will NOT be using salt in the tank any longer so the test kit would just go to waste. The only thing that caused you issues in the beginning is that you were mistaken on tank size. If you had that right from the start, you wouldn't be having salt level worries. And here is the goldfishes answer to your wheeled cart for the rat... the buoyancy compensator sling for a goldfish with floaty issues... lol http://www.npr.org/templates/gallery/index.php?gallery=5262470 <http://www.npr.org/templates/gallery/index.php?gallery=5262470&slide=1> &slide=1 (check out the other slides also) http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/DataGuru/Goldies/BugsySling/ http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15001 <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15001&highlight=sling> &highlight=sling http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9105 <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9105&highlight=sling> &highlight=sling On a side note, I used to be a very active member on GAB but the owner booted me since I would constantly debate with the owner and mods about proper goldfish tank size recommendations and inform other members that the GAB's Goldfish Care sheet was not a good one since it only recommended 10G per goldfish... and then they wonder why so many of their members fish have so many health problems??? Go figure! Other than thier Goldfish Care Sheet, they are very knowledgeable... kind of how the ER in an inner-city is the best place to go for a gunshot. Ask any cop! As long as they insist on keeping their goldfish in 10G of water, they'll have plenty of sick and stunted goldfish to practice their medicine on.. but at least we can learn from their mistakes and treatment options. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Did you mean for me to get the water "no less than 3 tsp per gallon" or no MORE than 3 tsp per gallon? No LESS would mean I want 3 tsp or more of salt in each gallon of water. Where can I find a kit for testing salinity? I don't seem to be very savvy in finding products for fish. Now, if you want instructions for building a wheeled cart for a paraplegic rat, I'm your gal. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still considered within acceptable limits. The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can take more but not by a whole lot. The general question of whether you can add medications while there is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2752208> or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2754035> > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also > see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her (?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock > solution > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock > solution > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs > of > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution > uses 20 > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg > malachite per > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > Higher dose only > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 > ml stock > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other > day for a > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > every three > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of > stock > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only > be used with > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to > a wound, > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's > eyes and > > gills. > > (END SNIP) > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of > 25% PWC's > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally > treated > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove > the rest. > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > will be the > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > this fresh > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > their > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. > were you > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > interdiction or > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help > with your > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > treatment. > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt > but DO NOT > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > treatment unless > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's > OK. It's > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from > a very > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet > store > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > fish a 24 > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > gallon), which is > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a > dose of 1 > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this > salt in a > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the > tank, > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added > 6 > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to > the > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, > add another > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 > hours > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons per > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting > your > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish > to adjust > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if > and/or when > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would > then add 15 > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add > it back > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one > after the > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a > chance to > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > happening to the > > fish. > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better > and it's also > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like > I did with > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my > previous > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to > the webpage > > and read those posts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this > is under > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few > new white > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems > to have > > started on the body. > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that > I can't get > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning > salt, so I > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G > tank, > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > times 12 hours > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > therapeutic > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did > see on the > > company website that they can be used together). The problem is > that they > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is > that > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank > is, yet? > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll > retest > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > Nitrate: >10 & > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish > are in now. > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were > all gone by > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least > another 6 > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change > and fewer > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was > run for a > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned > off and my > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > components on eBay, > > but never got around to it. > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > arrived in a > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > back problems > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they > needed a new > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about > a year in > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > don't know > > when or how that one died. > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and > then > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I > believe the > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning > was done. > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > sponge and > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I > picked up a > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that > it didn't > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > biofilter, but > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's > enough > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came > with the > > goldfish. > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does > that to me > > sometimes, lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 9:43:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34291	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

I just checked some lists where I am just a member, and the members option was present on the menu. However, and this has confused me in the past, why does this option get turned off by owners who then sing the tune, "it was done to prevent spammers from getting your e-mail address". The e-mail addresses appear as steve@...., ray@...., blenny@..., or, debr@..... The domain name is not shown. For reasons of privacy? You don't want things known, don't put them in your profile. Now, you do have the ability to send mail from this listing to the member who you choose from the listings, and it probably is feasible to write a script to go through the listings and send spam that way, but the only e-mail address shown is your own, you do not have the ability to harvest new addresses from the listings. As inexpensive s it is to spam, and get a high monetary return, it probably is not worth the effort to develop the script to send spam this way. It is far more cost efficient to rent or buy lists of name than to do this. Admittedly, I do networks and computers for a living, but, I have received only one spam message into my mailbox since midnight Sunday. This doesn't mean that I am off the radar for spammers. I actually have hundreds each day sent to me. It just means I have pretty good defenses against them reaching my mailbox (he says as he crosses his fingers). I get around 200 messages a day to this account. There are those sent directly through my mail server, and for those I get from my POP accounts, I let the ISP's involved do the filtering for me. The tools I use are readily available, and free. Admittedly I would dare say that most of you do not maintain your own mail server, but you can protect yourself, and should protect yourself, not only from spam, but from all threats. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? > > I'm on a few groups that don't offer the membership page for all members to see. Usually > this happens after an email harvesting incident or after a flame war crosses over into off- > group attacks, such as the one mentioned on a different thread, where the person's home > address was published to the group with threats of personal retribution. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:51 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? > > > John, Thanks for the refresher. I do recall a while back, some > groups I were on lacked the "Members" selection in their menu's, > which always puzzled me. Since I've become a moderator on many of > these groups I don't see that option as being missing and is why I > suggested it may only be for the mods -- although i wasn't quite > sure. Still fail to see why some groups offer this for the general > membership and some don't. I think there are still some groups I'm > on, just as a member, which don't offer it but I haven't taken > particular notice. I'm fairly sure you should still be able to go to > your own membership page in case you want to change or add to your > profile (or add/change an email address) -- but that page does not > have your sign-up/acceptance date. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> wrote: > > > > Ray > > > > It is only available in this group for moderators I think. > > > > All groups have the option of posting it or not. Some opt not to > for privacy reasons. This is especially true of large groups like > this. > > > > John in Neva\da > > > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 9:37 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, The Members selection in the left-hand menu is there on the > > Group Site -- at least it is on my Home page. If its not on your > > Home page, I can't figure why (unless that feature is only > available > > to Moderators); you of course need to be signed in, but I'm > assuming > > you already are when looking for it. Perhaps another Moderator > could > > fill you in further. You joined on October 11, 2008. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> > wrote: > > > > > > Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. > > > When you go to these group sites there is always a link on > > > the left hand side of the page titled "Members". > > > > > > If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, > > > all members of the list. > > > > > > Question? Where is ours? Ok, why? Because I have been > > > here for a while now but having the bad memory that I do, > > > and subject to more "senior moments" than I care to admit to, > > > I can't remember the exact date I joined, this "Members" list > > > would help. > > > > > > Just a thought, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34292	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Tropical Community Tank

I have posted some reviews of books that may or may not be of help to you. Look in the archives for the term book review. Try your local shops, local bookstores, local used bookstores, and failing that, there is always Amazon or one of the people who sell mostly used books dealing with fish. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Daniel Richie > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank > > Where should i go for the book, and what would you suggest?  Also, is there a list of the > online sites with good aquarium need deals anywhere? > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:33 AM > > > > > > > You really need some good books on the subject. > > You should get fish that will adapt to your local water conditions - > hardness as well as ph. A local fishstore that keeps its fish in tap water > is your best resource on that, and also, their fish will better survive the > transition to the tap water in your tank. (Of course you use a product that > removes chlorine, chloramines and associated ammonia.) > > The nitrogen wastes ened to be checked every day or two until the nitrogen > cycle gets going and then every week is fine unless there is a problem. > > Yes, most tropical fish need water 75 to 80 degrees. A couple of heaters > is your bet there. > > In general a bigger tank is easier to maintain than a small one. So start > with 20 gallons, 30 even better, not 5 or 10. > > Getting a fish tank going is a very educational project if your school > biology section will let you get one going. > > Petsmart sells what you need to get an aquarium going, but you can often get > better deals online. Drs. Foster and Smith, Pet Solutions, Marineland. > And others. > > I'm pretty new to tropical tanks and I elected not to do plants, atleast for > now. I decorated with plastic plants. Make sure your gravel and any rocks > don't react chemically with the water - that's a major problem with any sort > of limestone or coral-based rock. You have to be careful that your gravel > taht you buy at the fish store looks smooth and rounded and says it's > chemically nonreactive. It may be coated to make it that way; that's OK. > If you're feeling adventurous and want to put the time into it there are > cheaper ways to find gravel. > > An aquarium is a major time committment, and you have to be willing to keep > on cleaning the tank, testing the water, and feeding the fish. If you do > get tired of it you can usually recover a quarter to a third of your > investment pretty quickly on Craigs List. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sunfish3714" <sunfish3714@ yahoo.com> > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:08 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tropical Community Tank > > Hey, guys. > > I was thinking about creating a tropical tank with some kids in > my crew at my high school. I have had coolwater tanks with fish species > from the perch, sunfish, and minnow families. I never really had > anything that required a heater. So, I have a few questions. > > Where should I keep my pH? I was told that the temperature should > be staying around 74-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that correct? How often > should I check for nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia? Where would you > suggest that I get the chemical tests for those things, if you would > suggest chemical tests? Would you suggest a planted tank, knowing that > we all are new to tropical tanks? Are there any plants that are > relatively easy to maintain? We need to make this an informational tank > that is "pretty" as well. I had envisioned an Amazon basin themed tank. > What are your thoughts on this? Is there any other place in the world > that has a great diversity of species to choose from? What are your > thoughts on this? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34293	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

Sure does, and what do you mean by " Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D"? First, everyone knows it doesn't get cold in New Orleans in the winter. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Does that mean I have to open my southern-exposure windows for my wintertime > no-tan-lines sunbathing efforts? Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Glass itself is a pretty good blocker of UV rays, so the 90% they are > claiming, is that the film itself, or the amount that does not penetrate the > glass and film? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it > will > > block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes > through > > from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the > thin > > layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to > 99% of > > UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that > I've > > ever tried that! LOL > > > > None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out > during the > > summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself > isn't > > heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal > heat > > loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of > morning > > or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little > cooler > > but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the > ambient > > temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. > > > > To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated > windows > > (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those > windows or > > the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall > > stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the > > plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of > > insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would > work > > during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air > conditioning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Jennie > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm > > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm> > > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm > > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm> > > > This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an > plastic > > aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at > night > > with insulation. > > Thanks > > > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM > > > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective > film > > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating > up the > > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage > and > > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like > acrylic > > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron > thick > > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. > It > > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I > doubt > > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes > and > > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like > fiberglass, > > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air > layer, > > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test > this > > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain > glass > > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a > nickel, > > there's none. > > > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in > chemical > > composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much > different > > chemical composition. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on > > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. > > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good > idea? > > > > Jennie > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34294	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: new tank

I am setting up a 55 gal tank for my fancy goldfish. They have been in a 20 g for as long as i have had them. I have washed everything, put the rinsed gravel in, the castles, water, some anacharis, the aerator. I got a new propeller for the filter. The water has been filtering for about a week. I have not put the fish in yet. I took a sample to the pet store to be tested, and guess what? everything is fine except the ammonia. So I broke down and read about the nitorgen cycling. Now, my question is, should I put the new filter in the old tank to get some of the bacteria, or should I do the drops of ammonia and some type of enzymes or purchased bacteria, and if so, where do I get it, and what is it called? I also read that I could put some fish food in the tank, and that would start he process. Which is the best, and simplest? I can get the ammonia alert dial that goes in the tank. Do you recommend the test strips for testing the other things? Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks so much, Joanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34295	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: window film

Heck... we've got a terrible blizzard coming through here right now... OK.. maybe not a blizzard but it was down in the high 50's today and the low on Thursday is supposed to be 34F... cold enough to freeze a witch's... nose off. Besides that, now that I have to open the windows, it could get quite chilly since I might not even be wearing my Speedo... trying to avoid them tan lines. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film Sure does, and what do you mean by " Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D"? First, everyone knows it doesn't get cold in New Orleans in the winter. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Does that mean I have to open my southern-exposure windows for my wintertime > no-tan-lines sunbathing efforts? Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Glass itself is a pretty good blocker of UV rays, so the 90% they are > claiming, is that the film itself, or the amount that does not penetrate the > glass and film? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it > will > > block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes > through > > from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the > thin > > layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to > 99% of > > UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that > I've > > ever tried that! LOL > > > > None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out > during the > > summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself > isn't > > heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal > heat > > loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of > morning > > or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little > cooler > > but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the > ambient > > temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. > > > > To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated > windows > > (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those > windows or > > the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall > > stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the > > plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of > > insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would > work > > during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air > conditioning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Jennie > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm > > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm> > > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm > > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm> > > > > > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm > > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm> > > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm > > <http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-platinum.htm> > > > > > > This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an > plastic > > aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at > night > > with insulation. > > Thanks > > > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM > > > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective > film > > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating > up the > > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage > and > > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like > acrylic > > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron > thick > > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. > It > > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I > doubt > > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes > and > > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like > fiberglass, > > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air > layer, > > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test > this > > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain > glass > > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a > nickel, > > there's none. > > > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in > chemical > > composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much > different > > chemical composition. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on > > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. > > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good > idea? > > > > Jennie _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 11:09:59 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34296	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: new tank

I hope you didn't wash things too much.. unless you are talking about the new gravel. It would have been best to leave the anacharis in the old tank until moving day. Any good live bacteria that would have been living on the anacharis has died off now without an ammonia source for a week... but that's only a minor issue. The best way of upgrading a tank is to clone the old tank into the new tank. The good nitrifying bacteria live on the surface areas of the tank.. mostly in the filter media but also on the gravel, decorations, plants and even the glass. If the 20G tank is fully cycled, then what you want to do is transfer the filter and everything else that isn't tied down from the old tank to the new tank and then move the fish into the new tank. This might result in a mini-cycle but it shouldn't last more than a few days and not have the high ammonia/nitrite levels associated with starting from scratch. Leave the new filter on the new tank and the old filter on the old tank with the fish. Gravel vacuum the old tank a couple of times while doing 25% PWC's (partial water changes) every couple of hours until the old tank has very similar or almost identical water parameters to the new tank. Once the gravel is almost completely clean of detritus, you are ready to make the move. At this point, move the decorations and floating plants to the new tank. Then move the fish and filter system to the new tank (You'll run both filters on the new tank for a couple of weeks... or more). All that should be left in the old tank is any planted plants (if any) and the gravel. Now, get a colander and a slotted spoon (or clean cat litter scoop) and start scooping up the gravel and filling up the colander. If you are using new gravel in the new tank, then you want to put the old gravel into several nylon stocking pouches (or other suitable mesh material) and pour the gravel into the pouches and add the pouches into separate areas of your new tank where they get water circulation.. in other words, not stacked up. If using the old gravel in the new tank, then each time you fill the colander, lift it and let the dirty water drain and then move the colander into the new tank and slowly pour it out. Yes, there will still be some dirty water coming off the gravel but it will settle or be filtered soon. Repeat as necessary. Now test your water for ammonia and nitrites.. and all other test results and give us the numbers on a daily basis. Do a 25% PWC any time the ammonia or nitrite reaches 1.0ppm.. unless your pH is over 7.5, then do a PWC whenever the ammonia reaches 0.5ppm. Also add a pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning issues, should you have a nitrite issue. Usually, when cloning an old tank into a new tank, I never get much of an ammonia or nitrite reading and do not even have to do a single PWC before the nitrifying bacteria handle any small level of ammonia or nitrite. Once a week, if the water parameters are staying in good shape, remove one of the pouches of the old gravel (if applicable) and after 3-4 weeks, if you do not want both filters running on the tank (two filters on a 55G is a good thing), take the old filter cartridge/media from the smaller filter system and put it into the reservoir of the newer/bigger filter. Then you can remove the older/smaller filter system. Tell us your filter system brand and model and I could probably give you more details on proper maintenance for it. I also have a long article on my blog about Filter Maintenance and Cleaning that would give you some good info on keeping your filter properly cycled. This is really important on heavily stocked tanks.. like with a couple of goldfish in a 55G tank. If you decide to get the little alerts, get the SeaChem brand and get the ammonia and the pH alerts. I have a recent blog article where I compared the SeaChem and Mardel alerts and the SeaChem brand is much more accurate and much less expensive. You should also get a Master Test Kit. Under $20.00 from WalMart.com and they have free shipping to your local store. Get either the API or the TetraTest-Laborette brand. The API is the better bargain even though it costs a little more up front, it will perform a LOT more tests since the bottles of reagent chemicals are larger. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank I am setting up a 55 gal tank for my fancy goldfish. They have been in a 20 g for as long as i have had them. I have washed everything, put the rinsed gravel in, the castles, water, some anacharis, the aerator. I got a new propeller for the filter. The water has been filtering for about a week. I have not put the fish in yet. I took a sample to the pet store to be tested, and guess what? everything is fine except the ammonia. So I broke down and read about the nitorgen cycling. Now, my question is, should I put the new filter in the old tank to get some of the bacteria, or should I do the drops of ammonia and some type of enzymes or purchased bacteria, and if so, where do I get it, and what is it called? I also read that I could put some fish food in the tank, and that would start he process. Which is the best, and simplest? I can get the ammonia alert dial that goes in the tank. Do you recommend the test strips for testing the other things? Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks so much, Joanna _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 11:59:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34297	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still considered within acceptable limits. The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can take more but not by a whole lot. The general question of whether you can add medications while there is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2752208> or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2754035> > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > (You'll also see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her (?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock > solution > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock > solution > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs > of > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution > uses 20 > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg > malachite per > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > Higher dose only > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 > ml stock > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other > day for a > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > every three > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of > stock > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only > be used with > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to > a wound, > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's > eyes and > > gills. > > (END SNIP) > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of > 25% PWC's > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally > treated > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove > the rest. > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > will be the > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > this fresh > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > their > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. > were you > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > interdiction or > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help > with your > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > treatment. > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt > but DO NOT > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > treatment unless > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's > OK. It's > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from > a very > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet > store > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > fish a 24 > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > gallon), which is > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a > dose of 1 > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this > salt in a > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the > tank, > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added > 6 > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to > the > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, > add another > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 > hours > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons per > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting > your > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish > to adjust > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if > and/or when > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would > then add 15 > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add > it back > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one > after the > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a > chance to > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > happening to the > > fish. > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better > and it's also > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like > I did with > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my > previous > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to > the webpage > > and read those posts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this > is under > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few > new white > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems > to have > > started on the body. > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that > I can't get > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning > salt, so I > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G > tank, > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > times 12 hours > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > therapeutic > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did > see on the > > company website that they can be used together). The problem is > that they > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is > that > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank > is, yet? > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll > retest > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > Nitrate: >10 & > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish > are in now. > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were > all gone by > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least > another 6 > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change > and fewer > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was > run for a > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned > off and my > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > components on eBay, > > but never got around to it. > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > arrived in a > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > back problems > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they > needed a new > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about > a year in > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > don't know > > when or how that one died. > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and > then > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I > believe the > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning > was done. > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > sponge and > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I > picked up a > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that > it didn't > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > biofilter, but > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's > enough > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came > with the > > goldfish. > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does > that to me > > sometimes, lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34298	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Oh my goodness, that one picture of the little goldfish in the sling is to die for! OK, I'll save the $10 for the dream tank. I'm less than a tsp per gallon above the correct dose, now. Once the salt treatment is over I guess I'll just keep running the levels on Excel until I have it down under 1/4th of a tsp/gallon. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? I'm not sure how accurate they are but here's one... https://www.pondrx.com/products/16179.html I would save the 10 dollars for the larger tank. As long as you're not over the 5 teaspoons per gallon (0.5%), you'll be OK. Anywhere between 0.2% and 0.5% will have therapeutic benefits for sick fish. Then a series of 25% PWC's will bring the level down to negligible levels. After the fish are healed up, you will NOT be using salt in the tank any longer so the test kit would just go to waste. The only thing that caused you issues in the beginning is that you were mistaken on tank size. If you had that right from the start, you wouldn't be having salt level worries. And here is the goldfishes answer to your wheeled cart for the rat... the buoyancy compensator sling for a goldfish with floaty issues... lol http://www.npr.org/templates/gallery/index.php?gallery=5262470 <http://www.npr.org/templates/gallery/index.php?gallery=5262470&slide=1> &slide=1 (check out the other slides also) http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/DataGuru/Goldies/BugsySling/ http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15001 <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15001&highlight=sling> &highlight=sling http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9105 <http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9105&highlight=sling> &highlight=sling On a side note, I used to be a very active member on GAB but the owner booted me since I would constantly debate with the owner and mods about proper goldfish tank size recommendations and inform other members that the GAB's Goldfish Care sheet was not a good one since it only recommended 10G per goldfish... and then they wonder why so many of their members fish have so many health problems??? Go figure! Other than thier Goldfish Care Sheet, they are very knowledgeable... kind of how the ER in an inner-city is the best place to go for a gunshot. Ask any cop! As long as they insist on keeping their goldfish in 10G of water, they'll have plenty of sick and stunted goldfish to practice their medicine on.. but at least we can learn from their mistakes and treatment options. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Did you mean for me to get the water "no less than 3 tsp per gallon" or no MORE than 3 tsp per gallon? No LESS would mean I want 3 tsp or more of salt in each gallon of water. Where can I find a kit for testing salinity? I don't seem to be very savvy in finding products for fish. Now, if you want instructions for building a wheeled cart for a paraplegic rat, I'm your gal. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still considered within acceptable limits. The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can take more but not by a whole lot. The general question of whether you can add medications while there is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2752208> or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2754035> > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also > see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her (?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock > solution > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock > solution > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs > of > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution > uses 20 > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg > malachite per > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > Higher dose only > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 > ml stock > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other > day for a > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > every three > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of > stock > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only > be used with > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to > a wound, > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's > eyes and > > gills. > > (END SNIP) > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of > 25% PWC's > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally > treated > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove > the rest. > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > will be the > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > this fresh > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > their > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. > were you > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > interdiction or > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help > with your > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > treatment. > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt > but DO NOT > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > treatment unless > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's > OK. It's > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from > a very > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet > store > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > fish a 24 > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > gallon), which is > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a > dose of 1 > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this > salt in a > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the > tank, > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added > 6 > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to > the > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, > add another > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 > hours > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons per > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting > your > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish > to adjust > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if > and/or when > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would > then add 15 > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add > it back > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one > after the > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a > chance to > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > happening to the > > fish. > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better > and it's also > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like > I did with > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my > previous > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to > the webpage > > and read those posts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this > is under > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few > new white > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems > to have > > started on the body. > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that > I can't get > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning > salt, so I > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G > tank, > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > times 12 hours > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > therapeutic > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did > see on the > > company website that they can be used together). The problem is > that they > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is > that > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank > is, yet? > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll > retest > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > Nitrate: >10 & > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish > are in now. > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were > all gone by > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least > another 6 > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change > and fewer > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was > run for a > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned > off and my > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > components on eBay, > > but never got around to it. > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > arrived in a > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > back problems > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they > needed a new > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about > a year in > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > don't know > > when or how that one died. > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and > then > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I > believe the > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning > was done. > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > sponge and > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I > picked up a > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that > it didn't > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > biofilter, but > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's > enough > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came > with the > > goldfish. > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does > that to me > > sometimes, lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 9:43:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34299	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Hopefully all is well but the next time you need to start a new medication, do it when you'll be home (or awake) for as long as possible after starting the treatment... just so you can keep an eye on the fish and be prepared to do a PWC if the fish start to show signs of distress. I see you started the Fungus Clear at 9:45PM so hopefully you're a night owl and will be up to keep an eye on them for a while. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still considered within acceptable limits. The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can take more but not by a whole lot. The general question of whether you can add medications while there is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2752208> or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2754035> > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her (?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock > solution > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock > solution > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs > of > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution > uses 20 > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg > malachite per > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > Higher dose only > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 > ml stock > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other > day for a > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > every three > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of > stock > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only > be used with > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to > a wound, > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's > eyes and > > gills. > > (END SNIP) > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of > 25% PWC's > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally > treated > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove > the rest. > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > will be the > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > this fresh > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > their > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. > were you > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > interdiction or > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help > with your > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > treatment. > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt > but DO NOT > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > treatment unless > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's > OK. It's > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from > a very > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet > store > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > fish a 24 > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > gallon), which is > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a > dose of 1 > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this > salt in a > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the > tank, > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added > 6 > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to > the > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, > add another > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 > hours > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons per > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting > your > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish > to adjust > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if > and/or when > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would > then add 15 > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add > it back > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one > after the > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a > chance to > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > happening to the > > fish. > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better > and it's also > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like > I did with > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my > previous > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to > the webpage > > and read those posts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this > is under > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few > new white > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems > to have > > started on the body. > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that > I can't get > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning > salt, so I > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G > tank, > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > times 12 hours > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > therapeutic > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did > see on the > > company website that they can be used together). The problem is > that they > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is > that > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank > is, yet? > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll > retest > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > Nitrate: >10 & > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish > are in now. > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were > all gone by > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least > another 6 > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change > and fewer > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was > run for a > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned > off and my > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > components on eBay, > > but never got around to it. > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > arrived in a > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > back problems > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they > needed a new > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about > a year in > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > don't know > > when or how that one died. > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and > then > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I > believe the > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning > was done. > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > sponge and > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I > picked up a > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that > it didn't > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > biofilter, but > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's > enough > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came > with the > > goldfish. > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does > that to me > > sometimes, lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 1:17:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34300	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/10/2008
Subject: Re: Connecting Fish Tanks?

Yes, I thought the comments were "entertainingly stupid" myself, that is why I sort of skimmed them, and found the two that mentioned where the photos were taken. On 12/10/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Harl, > > If you were talking about all the blog comments, you're right.. I didn't > read very many of them. Since some of the top comments were from folks that > didn't even understand how this could possibly work, and then others gave > some kind of convoluted lost-in-space explanation, I figured most of the > comments were from pinheads.. so I had to stop. LOL > > Here are five of the top eight answers... when I just had to stop > reading... > which is a sad commentary on education in America.. or wherever these folks > may be from but since I'm American, I can only really blast my own > country's > education/political system. LOL > > ------- > Kelwin > > December 23rd, 2007 at 3:00 am > > That is pretty friggin' awesome. How does it stay up in there? water > usually > falls to the lowest path of least resistance, right? I would think that it > would just fall out of the pipeline back into the tanks causing them to > overflow. is it pumped into the pipeline? or is it just a fluke of physics > that make it work? > ------- > > Bryan > > December 23rd, 2007 at 4:30 am > > Yeah, I don't understand this either for some reason. I also think the > water > would fall right out or, unless the fish tanks were sealed, or there is > some > advanced knowledge of pressure going on here, Will have to test it. > ------- > > Evan > > December 23rd, 2007 at 4:31 am > > Kelwin, it has to do with the vapour pressure of water. In order for the > water to flow out of the top "pipeline" section, it would have to leave an > area with no liquid in it, just water vapour. But at room temperature water > wants to stay a liquid, and the attraction between the water molecules is > much stronger than the gravity pulling them down. > ------- > > TJ > > December 23rd, 2007 at 4:44 am > > @Kelwin: I was wondering the same thing. If you pump the excess water into > the top then the fish won't be able to swim up there because of the water > flowing downwards at high speed, thus rendering your pipeline useless. > ------- > > Evan > > December 23rd, 2007 at 4:47 am > > I would assume the water stays in there because the whole system is > pressurized. That is the only way I would imagine it is possible. > ------- > > The above five would make good guests on Jay Leno's Jaywalking segment. LOL > > I did read down more and more looking for your comment and saw someone > named > Chris identify the photos from Potion's Lounge.. but this comment > epitomizes > my thoughts. I also saw the post from "360" with the comment. > > ------- > Matt > > January 3rd, 2008 at 8:04 pm > > My gawd, the ignorance of basic physics is amazing. > > "How does it stay up in there?" > "I don't understand this either for some reason" > "I would assume the water stays in there because the whole system is > pressurized" > "this doesn't seem physically possible." > "Gravity would have the water flow down from the pipes and overflow the > tanks" > "Do you use large pumps to avoid tank overflow?" > > This is elementary school physics here. Put down the remote control, and > pick up an encyclopedia people. > ------- > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Harl Myers > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Connecting Fish Tanks? > > You were to bored with it to read the entries below - one said: > > Ha! You can see the back of my head in one of those photos.and I'm reading > the Onion. That was YEARS ago! The 2nd, 3rd and last image is from the > Liquid Potion Lounge in Evanston, IL (RIP). I used to love that place. > > This would often go up the tubes, but they'd rarely make it all the way to > the other fish tank. I remember it being days before I finally saw a fish > make it all the way across. Looked really cool though. > > I read it because I saw a video once of a tank with a second tank that went > quite a ways up. It had Chiclids in it too and they would go up and down > the thing. Actually I liked it better than the highway thing. Still looked > like a disaster waiting to happen. > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > Those are the same pics as the ones that were in the article that I > > recently posted a link to. I'm not sure if Aaron... is the owner of > > the pics or were just sharing snagged duplicates from that website or > > if the website snagged them from Aaron... or they both snagged them > > from someone else. The pics appear to be from a coffee shop or other > > restaurant type biz. I don't see anything in the below link that > > identifies the location of this fish pipeline. > > > > http://thecontaminated.com/pipeline-fish-tank/ > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > > Of bill1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Connecting Fish Tanks? > > > > This was the link from our photo section: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/l > > ist > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/320957330/pic/ > > list > > > > > > > The album is listed under this name -------in case the link does not > work: > > FisHighway > > > > See Ray! I told you I was drinking coffee! Another bad habit! I'm > > always drinking coffee. > > > > Bill > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/10/2008 8:16:46 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34301	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

Lenny, It would seem to me that with this KH test resulting in "no reading," that says the same to me as 0 (zero) if there is nothing during the test that changes any color indicating the presence of any carbonates. By that, any other tests, even the missing GH test, will have no bearing on the fact that there is absolutely no buffering capacity in this water. As a result, unless this tank is being changed out daily with large PWC's, the propensity for this tank's pH to suddenly crash is immense. While mutually established by all of us as the best route to follow as the most prudent approach to water chemistry, its usually recommended not to try to play with it -- except on rare occasions when it might be absolutely necessary as the only way to safely use the water. It would seem here, with no buffering capacity, that this may be one of those rare exceptions when crushed coral, or cuttle bone as you suggest, would need to be used as a way to establish at least some carbonates to ensure against such a pH crash. Now, I may not be fully understanding the meaning of "no reading" as the outcome of the test results for the KH reading, as this is not clarified -- but if there is no reading as a result of this test, that equates to Zero to me. It would appear the same to me as getting a "no reading" (CLEAR -- COLORLESS) result from an ammonia test -- which would tell me the ammonia level is at Zero. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes. So now you know that your tank water should have close to a 7.0 pH > subject to lowering once the tank's ecology gets a hold of it. You should > decide if you want to keep fish that prefer acidic water since the pH will > likely come down even further as you've seen. We still do not know your GH > readings. It's unlikely but you could have really hard water with very low > carbonate hardness (KH). I wouldn't try to do anything with the chemistry > in most cases.. and especially if I do not know all of the numbers. > > You mentioned early on that you have two other 10G tanks, besides this 46G > tank, and the pH is staying around 7.0 in those tanks. Do you have anything > different in those or maybe just a lighter bioload of fish/plants? Since > you mentioned crushed coral, do you have that in those tanks? I asked about > this in one of my earlier replies. > > Yes, a sudden pH crash can be harmful, even fatal to fish but if your tank > is stabile, then as long as you do your twice weekly PWC's and filter > maintenance, you should be fine. > > Once you get the GH test kit and results from your tap water baseline and > tank GH, then we'll have more info to know whether you need to do > anything... but more than likely, if your fish have been doing well on your > water, then you should be fine. I use a few broken off pieces of Cuttle > Bone (yes, the kind they feed parakeets) in my cherry shrimp tank filter to > add calcium carbonate to the tank.. mainly for the calcium so the shrimp can > develop proper shells. Crushed coral will basically do the same thing but > Cuttle Bone was easier and cheaper for me and I didn't have to use a filter > media bag. When the pieces of Cuttle Bone get so small that I can easily > pick them out of the filter reservoir, when doing filter maintenance, then I > just dump them and add a few more pieces. A single 99 cent Cuttle Bone > lasts for years on a 10G cherry shrimp tank. I also used to drop pieces in > my other tank when I had Mystery Snails and they would actually nibble on > it... at least it looked like they were. I tried dropping a piece in with > my cherry shrimp but they don't touch it as far as food goes so I just put > it in the filter reservoir. > > On a related note, do you have a water softener unit on your home.. or any > other kind of home filtration system? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > Here are the final results of the water baseline test: > Values reading right out of the tap: > KH: no reading > PH: 8.2 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > After 24 hours: > KH: no reading > PH: 7.0 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > After 48 hours: > KH: no reading > PH: 7.0 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > Questions: > - Should we consider the test completed? > - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden big PH drops? I > understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard that a sudden PH > drop could shock them. > - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral would increase > KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as soon as I get > it. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a year, at > most, > > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of what is > > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. More than > likely, > > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have been times > when > > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria > > will start converting the ammonia (usually associated with the ammonia > part of > > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is one of > > the reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our drinking > water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > > KH no reading > > PH 8.2 > > Ammonia 0.5 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrates 0 > > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > > Questions: > > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their value > is 0? I > > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > > - How about ammonia and KH? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You > > either need > > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding > > > something to raise > > the pH > > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion in > > the city > > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then > > once the > > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. Often, a > > utility > > > will add > > > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry issues by > > keeping > > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming the pH > > will > > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH (acidic) > > and soft > > > water. > > > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact them > > to get > > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are adding to > > > the water. > > > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to the > > fifth > > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the condition > > you are > > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour baseline. It > > would > > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.htm > > > l > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > ml> > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > ml > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > ml> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final results. > > > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result on > > both tap > > > water and tank water > > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March 08) > > > to > > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 > > gallon tank > > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the > > > filter > > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2- 3 > > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > > > - I don't have a GH test > > > - I use tap water from public utility > > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "goldlenny_blogspot" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon > > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of > > > your > > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your > > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > > > hours > > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. > > > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the > > > rest > > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us > > > > those numbers. > > > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are > > > you > > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? > > > What > > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 > > > neon > > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 > > > > > cory > > > > cats > > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > > Parameters are: > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for > > > > > the > > > > test > > > > > kit) > > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow > > > > from > > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon > > > > > tanks > > > > with > > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > > > capacity > > > > and > > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > > > capacity > > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/10/2008 6:06:30 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

That's why I am asking about the two 10G tanks, that seem to maintain a pH of 7.0 while the 46G tank is dropping to 6.0. I'm thinking there must be some level of KH but less than 1 degree (or less than 18ppm) of KH, since it changes color after the first drop of reagent. If the bioload of the 46G is a heavier load (per gallon), this would account for the pH lowering faster in the 46G... or is there something in the 10G tanks that is helping to maintain the KH level a little better in them... but still less than 1 degree of KH. Or is there something in the 46G that is counteracting the pH such as driftwood or other source of leaching acidic substances. Knowing the GH would also give us an idea if Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) could help, for more precise control of KH, while waiting for the source of Calcium Carbonate (either crushed coral, cuttle bone, etc.). Calcium may not be needed and baking soda is a lot easier to measure and dose and less expensive to acquire. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH Lenny, It would seem to me that with this KH test resulting in "no reading," that says the same to me as 0 (zero) if there is nothing during the test that changes any color indicating the presence of any carbonates. By that, any other tests, even the missing GH test, will have no bearing on the fact that there is absolutely no buffering capacity in this water. As a result, unless this tank is being changed out daily with large PWC's, the propensity for this tank's pH to suddenly crash is immense. While mutually established by all of us as the best route to follow as the most prudent approach to water chemistry, its usually recommended not to try to play with it -- except on rare occasions when it might be absolutely necessary as the only way to safely use the water. It would seem here, with no buffering capacity, that this may be one of those rare exceptions when crushed coral, or cuttle bone as you suggest, would need to be used as a way to establish at least some carbonates to ensure against such a pH crash. Now, I may not be fully understanding the meaning of "no reading" as the outcome of the test results for the KH reading, as this is not clarified -- but if there is no reading as a result of this test, that equates to Zero to me. It would appear the same to me as getting a "no reading" (CLEAR -- COLORLESS) result from an ammonia test -- which would tell me the ammonia level is at Zero. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes. So now you know that your tank water should have close to a 7.0 pH > subject to lowering once the tank's ecology gets a hold of it. You should > decide if you want to keep fish that prefer acidic water since the pH will > likely come down even further as you've seen. We still do not know your GH > readings. It's unlikely but you could have really hard water with very low > carbonate hardness (KH). I wouldn't try to do anything with the chemistry > in most cases.. and especially if I do not know all of the numbers. > > You mentioned early on that you have two other 10G tanks, besides this 46G > tank, and the pH is staying around 7.0 in those tanks. Do you have anything > different in those or maybe just a lighter bioload of fish/plants? Since > you mentioned crushed coral, do you have that in those tanks? I asked about > this in one of my earlier replies. > > Yes, a sudden pH crash can be harmful, even fatal to fish but if your tank > is stabile, then as long as you do your twice weekly PWC's and filter > maintenance, you should be fine. > > Once you get the GH test kit and results from your tap water baseline and > tank GH, then we'll have more info to know whether you need to do > anything... but more than likely, if your fish have been doing well on your > water, then you should be fine. I use a few broken off pieces of Cuttle > Bone (yes, the kind they feed parakeets) in my cherry shrimp tank filter to > add calcium carbonate to the tank.. mainly for the calcium so the shrimp can > develop proper shells. Crushed coral will basically do the same thing but > Cuttle Bone was easier and cheaper for me and I didn't have to use a filter > media bag. When the pieces of Cuttle Bone get so small that I can easily > pick them out of the filter reservoir, when doing filter maintenance, then I > just dump them and add a few more pieces. A single 99 cent Cuttle Bone > lasts for years on a 10G cherry shrimp tank. I also used to drop pieces in > my other tank when I had Mystery Snails and they would actually nibble on > it... at least it looked like they were. I tried dropping a piece in with > my cherry shrimp but they don't touch it as far as food goes so I just put > it in the filter reservoir. > > On a related note, do you have a water softener unit on your home.. or any > other kind of home filtration system? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > Here are the final results of the water baseline test: > Values reading right out of the tap: > KH: no reading > PH: 8.2 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > After 24 hours: > KH: no reading > PH: 7.0 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > After 48 hours: > KH: no reading > PH: 7.0 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > Questions: > - Should we consider the test completed? > - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden big PH drops? I > understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard that a sudden PH > drop could shock them. > - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral would increase > KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as soon as I get > it. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a year, at > most, > > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of what is > > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. More than > likely, > > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have been times > when > > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria > > will start converting the ammonia (usually associated with the ammonia > part of > > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is one of > > the reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our drinking > water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > > KH no reading > > PH 8.2 > > Ammonia 0.5 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrates 0 > > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > > Questions: > > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their value > is 0? I > > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > > - How about ammonia and KH? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You > > either need > > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding > > > something to raise > > the pH > > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion in > > the city > > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then > > once the > > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. Often, a > > utility > > > will add > > > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry issues by > > keeping > > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming the pH > > will > > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH (acidic) > > and soft > > > water. > > > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact them > > to get > > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are adding to > > > the water. > > > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to the > > fifth > > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the condition > > you are > > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour baseline. It > > would > > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.htm <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.htm> > > > l > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht> > > > > ml> > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht> > > > > ml > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht> > > > > ml> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final results. > > > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result on > > both tap > > > water and tank water > > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March 08) > > > to > > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 > > gallon tank > > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the > > > filter > > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2- 3 > > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > > > - I don't have a GH test > > > - I use tap water from public utility > > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "goldlenny_blogspot" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon > > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of > > > your > > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your > > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > > > hours > > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. > > > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the > > > rest > > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us > > > > those numbers. > > > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are > > > you > > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? > > > What > > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 > > > neon > > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 > > > > > cory > > > > cats > > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > > Parameters are: > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for > > > > > the > > > > test > > > > > kit) > > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow > > > > from > > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) PH reading on my tap water is > > > > > 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon tanks > > > > with > > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > > > capacity > > > > and > > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > > > capacity > > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 > 6:06:30 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 3:43:45 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 4:09:22 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34303	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: new tank

Thanks, I had to wash the things, because I bought everything from a guy at a garage sale. It was dusty, had old seaweed, and all that white crusty stuff. No soap was used. The old filter is "second nature Whisper power filter" C. The new filter is Aqua clear 70 with the three layers of sponge, charcoal, and stones. So, I don't do the steps for "Cycling a filter without fish" that I read on your Blog? Okay. I am going to have to have a LOT of water ready to do all the pw changes ever few hours! I have been letting the tap water stand for at least 24 hours before using. I just bought some water dechlolinator. ( that's what they recommended at store for the elevated ammonia level) She also recommended just letting it filter for a few more days. so, i did that and went back to test again. Actually, the second time I had the water tested, it was the ammonia level was the same, but the person kept referring to "the pneumonias." LOL She also recommended that I put the plants in the new tank to help reduce the amm. level. So I just did that a day or two ago, and only put one in, the other is floating in the old tank. I guess I have to get the ammonia alert thing before I do this to keep an eye on the level. At the pet store, they tested the water ( free) with the test strips. Are they not recommended? They said the water in the old tank, which I also had tested, looked okay on all parameters. Actually the old and new tank waters were both good, only dif was the slightly high amm level in the new tank. Thanks, Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I hope you didn't wash things too much.. unless you are talking about the > new gravel. It would have been best to leave the anacharis in the old tank > until moving day. Any good live bacteria that would have been living on the > anacharis has died off now without an ammonia source for a week... but > that's only a minor issue. > > The best way of upgrading a tank is to clone the old tank into the new tank. > > The good nitrifying bacteria live on the surface areas of the tank.. mostly > in the filter media but also on the gravel, decorations, plants and even the > glass. > > If the 20G tank is fully cycled, then what you want to do is transfer the > filter and everything else that isn't tied down from the old tank to the new > tank and then move the fish into the new tank. This might result in a > mini-cycle but it shouldn't last more than a few days and not have the high > ammonia/nitrite levels associated with starting from scratch. > > Leave the new filter on the new tank and the old filter on the old tank with > the fish. Gravel vacuum the old tank a couple of times while doing 25% > PWC's (partial water changes) every couple of hours until the old tank has > very similar or almost identical water parameters to the new tank. Once the > gravel is almost completely clean of detritus, you are ready to make the > move. At this point, move the decorations and floating plants to the new > tank. Then move the fish and filter system to the new tank (You'll run both > filters on the new tank for a couple of weeks... or more). All that should > be left in the old tank is any planted plants (if any) and the gravel. Now, > get a colander and a slotted spoon (or clean cat litter scoop) and start > scooping up the gravel and filling up the colander. If you are using new > gravel in the new tank, then you want to put the old gravel into several > nylon stocking pouches (or other suitable mesh material) and pour the gravel > into the pouches and add the pouches into separate areas of your new tank > where they get water circulation.. in other words, not stacked up. If using > the old gravel in the new tank, then each time you fill the colander, lift > it and let the dirty water drain and then move the colander into the new > tank and slowly pour it out. Yes, there will still be some dirty water > coming off the gravel but it will settle or be filtered soon. Repeat as > necessary. > > Now test your water for ammonia and nitrites.. and all other test results > and give us the numbers on a daily basis. Do a 25% PWC any time the ammonia > or nitrite reaches 1.0ppm.. unless your pH is over 7.5, then do a PWC > whenever the ammonia reaches 0.5ppm. Also add a pinch of salt per 10G to > help prevent nitrite poisoning issues, should you have a nitrite issue. > > Usually, when cloning an old tank into a new tank, I never get much of an > ammonia or nitrite reading and do not even have to do a single PWC before > the nitrifying bacteria handle any small level of ammonia or nitrite. > > Once a week, if the water parameters are staying in good shape, remove one > of the pouches of the old gravel (if applicable) and after 3-4 weeks, if you > do not want both filters running on the tank (two filters on a 55G is a good > thing), take the old filter cartridge/media from the smaller filter system > and put it into the reservoir of the newer/bigger filter. Then you can > remove the older/smaller filter system. > > Tell us your filter system brand and model and I could probably give you > more details on proper maintenance for it. I also have a long article on my > blog about Filter Maintenance and Cleaning that would give you some good > info on keeping your filter properly cycled. This is really important on > heavily stocked tanks.. like with a couple of goldfish in a 55G tank. > > If you decide to get the little alerts, get the SeaChem brand and get the > ammonia and the pH alerts. I have a recent blog article where I compared > the SeaChem and Mardel alerts and the SeaChem brand is much more accurate > and much less expensive. > > You should also get a Master Test Kit. Under $20.00 from WalMart.com and > they have free shipping to your local store. Get either the API or the > TetraTest-Laborette brand. The API is the better bargain even though it > costs a little more up front, it will perform a LOT more tests since the > bottles of reagent chemicals are larger. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank > > > I am setting up a 55 gal tank for my fancy goldfish. They have been in a 20 > g for as long as i have had them. I have washed everything, put the rinsed > gravel in, the castles, water, some anacharis, the aerator. I got a new > propeller for the filter. > The water has been filtering for about a week. I have not put the fish in > yet. I took a sample to the pet store to be tested, and guess what? > everything is fine except the ammonia. So I broke down and read about the > nitorgen cycling. > Now, my question is, should I put the new filter in the old tank to get some > of the bacteria, or should I do the drops of ammonia and some type of > enzymes or purchased bacteria, and if so, where do I get it, and what is it > called? I also read that I could put some fish food in the tank, and that > would start he process. Which is the best, and simplest? > > I can get the ammonia alert dial that goes in the tank. Do you recommend the > test strips for testing the other things? > Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. > Thanks so much, > Joanna > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/10/2008 11:59:18 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34304	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Lenny, Okay -- thanks for filling me in. But, what happened to the post I just got done sending on this. Well, more wasted effort -- chalk another one up to the cyberspace gremlins, or Yahoo. Let's try this one over again, if I can remember just what I wanted to say from the first time (don't mind my rambling -- just frustrated from losing another one I put time into with nothing to show for it). I do recall reading of some internal issues somewhere among these many posts, even recalling feeding peas to some fish as I said, but I don't know where they were messaged. I haven't seen any references to bloating in this subject in any recent posts, at least not in any threads here I've been able to follow. Quite often, at least some readers rebuke at having to read a long continous series of posts in any one thread, but then the continuation of a thread is often quite useful (if not essential) in trying to follow the subject matter at hand. I suspect somewhere along the line this thread was probably broken, hence any mention of bloating was lost. Continuing on bloating, yes when the salinity exceeds that at which a freshwater species can regulate this additional osmotic pressure beyond which it can comfortably deal with, water retention will be seen as a result of it. Having seen no mention of this in the more recent threads, hopefully this issue has passed with the reduction of the salt level. I would dismiss any reference to Malachite Green in its context with its use against fungus in this instance, only as it can be effective against some forms, but it would not be my choice of medication either for Saprolegnia (true body fungus -- cottony growths) or Columnaris ("fungus-like" bacterial infection). With the hope that an internal infection is no longer a possible danger, I know of no antibiotics which will address such issues and at the same time be effective against fungus. Medications of choice for internal bacterial infections would be either Kanamycin or Naladixic Acid, both readily absorbed internally, and while Kanamycin is effective against Columnaris, neither of these two meds are useful against fungus. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > In a recent reply by DebR, she mentioned one of the fish was appearing > bloated (her quote: "because CB seems a bit rounder than usual") which could > be internal bacterial but could also be attributable to osmoregulation > issues and holding fluids from the salted water treatment. > > Another reason we thought it might be bacterial rather than fungal was that > she was treating with Malachite Green early on which wasn't having any > effect on the fungus. > > OK. I've got my whiteboard out, now where's House? ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > In going back over the threads of this subject, I can't find any > reference to any internal disorders, although I do remember some > members being suggested to feed peas to their fish to help them with > digestive disorders, although I don't recall seeing that here. There > was also some talk about fin and tail rot, but again, I can't find > this here in this long thread -- direct me if I missed anything on > either of these issues. > > I do see references made to "white stuff" on the fish and more > recently, "cottony stuff" on the caudal and dorsal bases on both CB > and Raven -- which to me strongly indicates the manifestation of > Fungus on these fish. If Columnaris is involved, and mouth "fungus" > as one of these forms can take on this appearance when first > starting, I haven't seen anything pointing towards that -- except > for "white stuff," but bodily Columnaris is rarely that localized -- > any whiteness as a result of this disease would be more generally > spread. Its the "cottony" appearance that pinpoints it right back to > Fungus when associated with localized areas. > > Fortunately, these terrific medications (Nitrofurazone and > Furadolizone) cover all bases and are greatly anti-fungal as well as > being great broad-spectrum anti-biotics. Aside only from Triple- > Sulfa (a primarily gram-negative antibiotic), I know of no better > medication for treating Columnaris, even though Oxytetracycline would > be as equal, and at the same pH and hardness values -- up to pH 8.0 > in hard water. But, these two medications (Triple-Sulfa and > Oxytetracycline) are not without their drawbacks of erradicating your > nitrifying bacteria. I won't rule out Oxolinic Acid as a good > treatment against Columnaris either. Note; if the pH is over 8.0, > you want to go to Triple-Sulfa, if the water is high in calcium and > magnesium (which it often accompanies), Nitrofurans lose their > potency above pH 8.0 as they bind up with these elements. > > For strickly fungal infections, while the two afore-mentioned > medications will act on this, the two 'zones' (Nitrofurazone and > Furadolizone) in combination are more effective than either one of > these -- and not being directly derived from bacteria culturing as a > product of them (as are many of the meds in the Penacyllin/Kanamycin, > etc. families) they are said not to interfere with the nitrifying > bacteria cultures. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > DebR, > > > > Disregard most of my previous reply and follow Ray's advice. He's > much more > > experienced than I am. I know the thread was started as a fungus > problem > > but then I thought that somewhere along the line, you said it > looked more > > like Columnaris (bacterial.. that often appears to be fungal). > > > > Unless Ray comments on this post, follow his treatment directions > below. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:31 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not > 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming > to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > (You'll > also > > see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > > I find test > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > > area of > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > > and dorsal > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > > Raven > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > > spots, > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > > a good > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > > 20 > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > > with 1T per > > > G salt) > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > > note to > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > > obvious and the > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > > areas, but > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > > somewhere > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > > bubbles that > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > > eye look, > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > > with > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > > take a pair > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > > I've ever > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > > plastic plants, > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > > up.. 7-10 days > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > > was. Same > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > > while for > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > > which would > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > > dose to > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > > 90 > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > > to have a > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > > which day > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > > your tank. > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > > ammonia get > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > > check. > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > > same level > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > > adding the > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > > article on > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > > bucket. Test > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > > Test it > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > > will likely > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > > Agitation > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > > This baseline > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > > your tap > > > water. > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > > and then I > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > > the Daily > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > > to a Daily > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > > never seen > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > > automatically > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > > Digests. > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > > few seconds > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > > thread they > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > > show in reply > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > > upgrades to the > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > > replies > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > > for other > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > chronological order.. > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > > threads. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > > areas > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > > This may be a > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > > with that, > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > > find her > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > > a day, > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > > version go > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > > messages. > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > > digest > > > version. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > > the fish > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > > and the > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > > exhausted > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > > Rid-Ich+. > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > > all those > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > > try going > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > > for help. I > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > > for rodent > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > > shavings, that > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > > sooner, > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > > them in > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > > time for. > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > > the only > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > > going to > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > > another 2T > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > > replacement > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > > of 6T in > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > > 20T tomorrow > > > night. > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > > Carol Burnett) > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > > two (Lucille > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her(?) > > dorsal fin > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > > makes me > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > > adding > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > > higher nitrite > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > > either the > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > > nitrite level is > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > > protect the fish > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > > need some to > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > > ever add > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > > long way... > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > > and > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > > it would > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > > were gone or > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > > stagnant. > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > > weren't any > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > > worse. You've > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > > anyhow. > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > > malachite > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > > mentioned it. > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > > days isn't > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > > effect. > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > > dose the > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > > day > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > > or what. > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > options... > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.u<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: new tank

As far as the fishless cycling, if you were starting up a new tank and were planning on getting all new fish for the new tank, then fishless cycling the new tank and using some of your old tank's filter media would be a good idea but since you are simply upgrading the fish from the smaller tank to the bigger tank, you can simply transfer as much of the current ecosystem and biology from the old tank to the new tank so the new tank starts off with an almost identical ecosystem as the old tank.. which is why I call it cloning. Since the AC-70 has a decent sized reservoir, you could leave the charcoal out (since it's not needed as a permanent filter media anyhow) and take the filter media (floss pad/sponge/etc.) from the Whisper and fold it up and put it into the media holder of the AC-70. You want the sponge block on the bottom then the "old" media, then the biomax (stones) media as the top/last level of filtration. The AC brand uses a series of channels so that the intake water is channeled down to the bottom of the reservoir and then flows up through the filter media before pouring out the waterfall... so you want the biomax as the top/last layer so only filtered water is flowing over it so it does not get clogged up with detritus since it will be a big part of the nitrifying bacteria colony in that filter system. If you are using a tap water dechlor, there's no need to let the water stand for 24 hours before using it for a PWC... as long as you can reasonable control the temperature of the tap water so that it's close to your tank water temp, you can refill it directly from the tap after siphoning out the old water during a PWC. This is how the Python Water Change System works. In all likelihood, the 0.5ppm level of ammonia in the new tank is from the residual ammonia left over after treating tap water that is disinfected with chloramine (chlorine and ammonia compound). The tap water dechlor breaks the chloramine bond and the chlorine is broken down and the ammonia remains. Usually, that low level of ammonia is immediately utilized by the nitrifying bacteria in an established tank with no problems since a 25% PWC would only introduce 0.125ppm of ammonia... a very low level that usually won't even show up on an ammonia test kit. She was right about the plants utilizing this ammonia also but just running your established filter on the new tank for a couple of minutes would also have eaten up that level of ammonia... presuming it was only the 0.5ppm residual level from chloramines. Without having actual numbers, it's difficult to be certain so I'm just relying on my experience in many other similar situations. No, the dip strips are NOT recommended. They are not very accurate or they are inconsistent so you are never sure of their results. The API or Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kits are both inexpensive (under $20.00) and accurate and are available via Walmart.com with free delivery to a local Walmart store... if you have one nearby. If you don't, then the API kit is readily available online from many sites and DrsFosterSmith.com had the best price the last time I compared prices but then there would be a shipping charge. Be VERY careful about getting any advice or buying anything from that store that referred to "the pneumonias". Check with us out here before wasting your time or money with them. It's OK to use them for free water testing right now but you really need to get your own Master Test Kit. Relying on them for testing seems like an accident waiting to happen. I would get the Master Test Kit before getting the alert monitors. After your tank is set up, if you have extra money and want to get the Ammonia and pH alerts, they are a convenience but really, once the new tank is set up as I instructed and you test the water using the Master Test Kit (or utilize the pet stores free testing daily), you will see that things will likely be OK. I am currently using one of the SeaChem pH alert monitors in my goldfish tank, more as a comparison test to the Mardel pH monitor that I was using since I got it for free.... and the pH monitor is OK to use in an established tank to be sure your weekly maintenance schedule is sufficient to maintain the pH in a tank with a heavy bioload.. like goldfish tanks. Give us the details on all products that they have sold you so far. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 4:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new tank Thanks, I had to wash the things, because I bought everything from a guy at a garage sale. It was dusty, had old seaweed, and all that white crusty stuff. No soap was used. The old filter is "second nature Whisper power filter" C. The new filter is Aqua clear 70 with the three layers of sponge, charcoal, and stones. So, I don't do the steps for "Cycling a filter without fish" that I read on your Blog? Okay. I am going to have to have a LOT of water ready to do all the pw changes ever few hours! I have been letting the tap water stand for at least 24 hours before using. I just bought some water dechlolinator. ( that's what they recommended at store for the elevated ammonia level) She also recommended just letting it filter for a few more days. so, i did that and went back to test again. Actually, the second time I had the water tested, it was the ammonia level was the same, but the person kept referring to "the pneumonias." LOL She also recommended that I put the plants in the new tank to help reduce the amm. level. So I just did that a day or two ago, and only put one in, the other is floating in the old tank. I guess I have to get the ammonia alert thing before I do this to keep an eye on the level. At the pet store, they tested the water ( free) with the test strips. Are they not recommended? They said the water in the old tank, which I also had tested, looked okay on all parameters. Actually the old and new tank waters were both good, only dif was the slightly high amm level in the new tank. Thanks, Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I hope you didn't wash things too much.. unless you are talking about > the new gravel. It would have been best to leave the anacharis in the > old tank until moving day. Any good live bacteria that would have been > living on the anacharis has died off now without an ammonia source for > a week... but that's only a minor issue. > > The best way of upgrading a tank is to clone the old tank into the new tank. > > The good nitrifying bacteria live on the surface areas of the tank.. > mostly in the filter media but also on the gravel, decorations, plants > and even the glass. > > If the 20G tank is fully cycled, then what you want to do is transfer > the filter and everything else that isn't tied down from the old tank > to the new tank and then move the fish into the new tank. This might > result in a mini-cycle but it shouldn't last more than a few days and > not have the high ammonia/nitrite levels associated with starting from scratch. > > Leave the new filter on the new tank and the old filter on the old > tank with the fish. Gravel vacuum the old tank a couple of times while > doing 25% PWC's (partial water changes) every couple of hours until > the old tank has very similar or almost identical water parameters to > the new tank. Once the gravel is almost completely clean of detritus, > you are ready to make the move. At this point, move the decorations > and floating plants to the new tank. Then move the fish and filter > system to the new tank (You'll run both filters on the new tank for a > couple of weeks... or more). All that should be left in the old tank > is any planted plants (if any) and the gravel. Now, get a colander and > a slotted spoon (or clean cat litter scoop) and start scooping up the > gravel and filling up the colander. If you are using new gravel in the > new tank, then you want to put the old gravel into several nylon > stocking pouches (or other suitable mesh material) and pour the gravel > into the pouches and add the pouches into separate areas of your new > tank where they get water circulation.. in other words, not stacked > up. If using the old gravel in the new tank, then each time you fill > the colander, lift it and let the dirty water drain and then move the > colander into the new tank and slowly pour it out. Yes, there will > still be some dirty water coming off the gravel but it will settle or be filtered soon. Repeat as necessary. > > Now test your water for ammonia and nitrites.. and all other test > results and give us the numbers on a daily basis. Do a 25% PWC any > time the ammonia or nitrite reaches 1.0ppm.. unless your pH is over > 7.5, then do a PWC whenever the ammonia reaches 0.5ppm. Also add a > pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning issues, should you have a nitrite issue. > > Usually, when cloning an old tank into a new tank, I never get much of > an ammonia or nitrite reading and do not even have to do a single PWC > before the nitrifying bacteria handle any small level of ammonia or nitrite. > > Once a week, if the water parameters are staying in good shape, remove > one of the pouches of the old gravel (if applicable) and after 3-4 > weeks, if you do not want both filters running on the tank (two > filters on a 55G is a good thing), take the old filter cartridge/media > from the smaller filter system and put it into the reservoir of the > newer/bigger filter. Then you can remove the older/smaller filter system. > > Tell us your filter system brand and model and I could probably give > you more details on proper maintenance for it. I also have a long > article on my blog about Filter Maintenance and Cleaning that would > give you some good info on keeping your filter properly cycled. This > is really important on heavily stocked tanks.. like with a couple of goldfish in a 55G tank. > > If you decide to get the little alerts, get the SeaChem brand and get > the ammonia and the pH alerts. I have a recent blog article where I > compared the SeaChem and Mardel alerts and the SeaChem brand is much > more accurate and much less expensive. > > You should also get a Master Test Kit. Under $20.00 from WalMart.com > and they have free shipping to your local store. Get either the API or > the TetraTest-Laborette brand. The API is the better bargain even > though it costs a little more up front, it will perform a LOT more > tests since the bottles of reagent chemicals are larger. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank > > > I am setting up a 55 gal tank for my fancy goldfish. They have been in > a 20 g for as long as i have had them. I have washed everything, put > the rinsed gravel in, the castles, water, some anacharis, the aerator. > I got a new propeller for the filter. > The water has been filtering for about a week. I have not put the fish > in yet. I took a sample to the pet store to be tested, and guess what? > everything is fine except the ammonia. So I broke down and read about > the nitorgen cycling. > Now, my question is, should I put the new filter in the old tank to > get some of the bacteria, or should I do the drops of ammonia and some > type of enzymes or purchased bacteria, and if so, where do I get it, > and what is it called? I also read that I could put some fish food in > the tank, and that would start he process. Which is the best, and simplest? > > I can get the ammonia alert dial that goes in the tank. Do you > recommend the test strips for testing the other things? > Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. > Thanks so much, > Joanna > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 > 11:59:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 5:23:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 5:55:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

I saw your long post advising about various medications/treatments (and it's in this thread, several posts down), which is when I replied to DebR to follow your advice since you are more experienced than I am. Hopefully, DebR got your long post as well.. or will scroll down to your TWO December 10th long posts. I've been blessed to NOT have very many sick fish over the years and most quickly healed up using proper tank maintenance, good ol' clean water, salt, Melafix, Pimafix and Jungle medicated foods. I've never had to use anything stronger. The ones I have lost were more related to "old age" so I readily admit that I am not the best person for prescribing advanced fish medical advice. My forte' is more in line with preventing the sick fish in the first place by practicing good fish keeping habits and many of the basic fish health issues but once things get beyond the illness basics, I'll leave the advanced medical stuff to the experts like you.. and keep reading and learning from you all... and hoping I never need the information. Here is a snip of what DebR said in her post for Day 8 of the salt treatment: > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. At first, I thought the swelling might be internal bacterial but after thinking about it, realized it could just be osmoregulatory water retention from the salt treatment. Hopefully, DebR can get one of your suggested meds at a reasonable price and treat the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 5:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Lenny, Okay -- thanks for filling me in. But, what happened to the post I just got done sending on this. Well, more wasted effort -- chalk another one up to the cyberspace gremlins, or Yahoo. Let's try this one over again, if I can remember just what I wanted to say from the first time (don't mind my rambling -- just frustrated from losing another one I put time into with nothing to show for it). I do recall reading of some internal issues somewhere among these many posts, even recalling feeding peas to some fish as I said, but I don't know where they were messaged. I haven't seen any references to bloating in this subject in any recent posts, at least not in any threads here I've been able to follow. Quite often, at least some readers rebuke at having to read a long continous series of posts in any one thread, but then the continuation of a thread is often quite useful (if not essential) in trying to follow the subject matter at hand. I suspect somewhere along the line this thread was probably broken, hence any mention of bloating was lost. Continuing on bloating, yes when the salinity exceeds that at which a freshwater species can regulate this additional osmotic pressure beyond which it can comfortably deal with, water retention will be seen as a result of it. Having seen no mention of this in the more recent threads, hopefully this issue has passed with the reduction of the salt level. I would dismiss any reference to Malachite Green in its context with its use against fungus in this instance, only as it can be effective against some forms, but it would not be my choice of medication either for Saprolegnia (true body fungus -- cottony growths) or Columnaris ("fungus-like" bacterial infection). With the hope that an internal infection is no longer a possible danger, I know of no antibiotics which will address such issues and at the same time be effective against fungus. Medications of choice for internal bacterial infections would be either Kanamycin or Naladixic Acid, both readily absorbed internally, and while Kanamycin is effective against Columnaris, neither of these two meds are useful against fungus. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > In a recent reply by DebR, she mentioned one of the fish was appearing > bloated (her quote: "because CB seems a bit rounder than usual") which could > be internal bacterial but could also be attributable to osmoregulation > issues and holding fluids from the salted water treatment. > > Another reason we thought it might be bacterial rather than fungal was that > she was treating with Malachite Green early on which wasn't having any > effect on the fungus. > > OK. I've got my whiteboard out, now where's House? ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > In going back over the threads of this subject, I can't find any > reference to any internal disorders, although I do remember some > members being suggested to feed peas to their fish to help them with > digestive disorders, although I don't recall seeing that here. There > was also some talk about fin and tail rot, but again, I can't find > this here in this long thread -- direct me if I missed anything on > either of these issues. > > I do see references made to "white stuff" on the fish and more > recently, "cottony stuff" on the caudal and dorsal bases on both CB > and Raven -- which to me strongly indicates the manifestation of > Fungus on these fish. If Columnaris is involved, and mouth "fungus" > as one of these forms can take on this appearance when first > starting, I haven't seen anything pointing towards that -- except > for "white stuff," but bodily Columnaris is rarely that localized -- > any whiteness as a result of this disease would be more generally > spread. Its the "cottony" appearance that pinpoints it right back to > Fungus when associated with localized areas. > > Fortunately, these terrific medications (Nitrofurazone and > Furadolizone) cover all bases and are greatly anti-fungal as well as > being great broad-spectrum anti-biotics. Aside only from Triple- > Sulfa (a primarily gram-negative antibiotic), I know of no better > medication for treating Columnaris, even though Oxytetracycline would > be as equal, and at the same pH and hardness values -- up to pH 8.0 > in hard water. But, these two medications (Triple-Sulfa and > Oxytetracycline) are not without their drawbacks of erradicating your > nitrifying bacteria. I won't rule out Oxolinic Acid as a good > treatment against Columnaris either. Note; if the pH is over 8.0, > you want to go to Triple-Sulfa, if the water is high in calcium and > magnesium (which it often accompanies), Nitrofurans lose their > potency above pH 8.0 as they bind up with these elements. > > For strickly fungal infections, while the two afore-mentioned > medications will act on this, the two 'zones' (Nitrofurazone and > Furadolizone) in combination are more effective than either one of > these -- and not being directly derived from bacteria culturing as a > product of them (as are many of the meds in the Penacyllin/Kanamycin, > etc. families) they are said not to interfere with the nitrifying > bacteria cultures. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > DebR, > > > > Disregard most of my previous reply and follow Ray's advice. He's > much more > > experienced than I am. I know the thread was started as a fungus > problem > > but then I thought that somewhere along the line, you said it > looked more > > like Columnaris (bacterial.. that often appears to be fungal). > > > > Unless Ray comments on this post, follow his treatment directions > below. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:31 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not > 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming > to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > > > or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > > > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > > (You'll > also > > see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34307	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Deb, Yes, as I stated, "I would suggest changing out enough water to get the salt level NO LESS than 3 tsp per gallon (not, no MORE). Much less than 3 tsp per gallon will not do much good. Best results will be had at, at least 3 tsp per gallon -- even though you don't want to go too much more. Most of the better LFS's (local fish shops) and water garden outlets carry liquid salt/salinity testing kits for freshwater aquarium/pond use. Aquarium Pharm., Inc. markets their Pond Care Salt Level Test Kit, which I was selling at $7.50 before retiring from managing a nationally known water gardens. You should be able to find something locally -- but as you normally wouldn't have any use for maintaining salt in your aquarium (other than on occasions such as this), it might be a waste of money that would be better saved towards a larger tank, as Lenny suggests. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Did you mean for me to get the water "no less than 3 tsp per gallon" or no MORE than 3 tsp per gallon? No LESS would mean I want 3 tsp or more of salt in each gallon of water. > > Where can I find a kit for testing salinity? I don't seem to be very savvy in finding products for fish. Now, if you want instructions for building a wheeled cart for a paraplegic rat, I'm your gal. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still > considered within acceptable limits. > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can > take more but not by a whole lot. > > The general question of whether you can add medications while there > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get > a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of > salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 > 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon > (not 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > seeming to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having > the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what > your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is > the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate > was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan > II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at > all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems > a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for > the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and > live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a > PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so > I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also > does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home > and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G > or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe > to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in > the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2752208 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2752208> or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2754035 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2754035> > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting > the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online > from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more > for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in > the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap > water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product > (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? > If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the > 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by > the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but > also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs > lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water > level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes > more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants > to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still > about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday > and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... > and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons > to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those > 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) > and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x > W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. > For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" > x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect > on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy > was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills > off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once > in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish > have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh > for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers > and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps > just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means > you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish > to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > (You'll > also > > see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be > 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting > in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it > didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler > and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn > my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The > fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just > not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a > 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, > the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than > 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then > the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH > after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus > KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 > but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where > do > > I find test > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > Detroit > > area of > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the > tail > > and dorsal > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > disappearing. > > Raven > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting > dark > > spots, > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still > has > > a good > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 20 > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > water > > with 1T per > > > G salt) > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made > mental > > note to > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > > obvious and the > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > white > > areas, but > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as > always. > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in > there > > somewhere > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > > bubbles that > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme > bug- > > eye look, > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > grasses > > with > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll > just > > take a pair > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not > that > > I've ever > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > > plastic plants, > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > > up.. 7-10 days > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad > it > > was. Same > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > take a > > while for > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > Tablespoons > > which would > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one > more > > dose to > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > total of > > 90 > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should > start > > to have a > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us > know > > which day > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the > salt > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > > your tank. > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let > the > > ammonia get > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > ammonia in > > check. > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with > the > > same level > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > before > > adding the > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > > article on > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > > bucket. Test > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > dechlor. > > Test it > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > numbers > > will likely > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > baseline. > > Agitation > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > > This baseline > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > in > > your tap > > > water. > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > groups. I > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an > email > > and then I > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I > get > > the Daily > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > replies > > to a Daily > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. > I've > > never seen > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > > automatically > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > Daily > > Digests. > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > take a > > few seconds > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for > the > > thread they > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > > show in reply > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > > upgrades to the > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > > replies > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > messages in > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > looking > > for other > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > chronological order.. > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > longer > > threads. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > whitish > > areas > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > eyes. > > This may be a > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > > with that, > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured > than > > find her > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages > in > > a day, > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the > digest > > version go > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the > new > > messages. > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting > the > > digest > > > version. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > because > > the fish > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > white > > and the > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > looking > > exhausted > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was > using > > Rid-Ich+. > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking > at > > all those > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided > to > > try going > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > attendant > > for help. I > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > customers > > for rodent > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > > shavings, that > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet > much > > sooner, > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > keeping > > them in > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I > had > > time for. > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon > and > > the only > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > sealant. > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) > before > > going to > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > > another 2T > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > > replacement > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a > total > > of 6T in > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning > and > > 20T tomorrow > > > night. > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > > Carol Burnett) > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > other > > two (Lucille > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her > (?) > > dorsal fin > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though > it > > makes me > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > with > > adding > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > > higher nitrite > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > > either the > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > > nitrite level is > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > > protect the fish > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but > you > > need some to > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did > you > > ever add > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go > a > > long way... > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have > an up > > and > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > future, > > it would > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > fish > > were gone or > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > getting > > stagnant. > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > > weren't any > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > > worse. You've > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > > anyhow. > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > > malachite > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > > mentioned it. > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. > Four > > days isn't > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > > effect. > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > says to > > dose the > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a > nine > > day > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > weaker > > or what. > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > options... > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > Malachite > > green: > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > > parasites. > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a > stock > > solution > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the > stock > > solution > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > whatever > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many > mgs > > of > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > solution > > uses 20 > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 > mg > > malachite per > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > > Higher dose only > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with > 1 > > ml stock > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every > other > > day for a > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > > every three > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml > of > > stock > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should > only > > be used with > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly > to > > a wound, > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > fish's > > eyes and > > > gills. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > series of > > 25% PWC's > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > medicinally > > treated > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > remove > > the rest. > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > > will be the > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > > this fresh > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > > their > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > antibiotic.. > > were you > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > > interdiction or > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much > help > > with your > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > > treatment. > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > salt > > but DO NOT > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > treatment unless > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says > it's > > OK. It's > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions > from > > a very > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or > pet > > store > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > > fish a 24 > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > treatment... > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > > gallon), which is > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > with a > > dose of 1 > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute > this > > salt in a > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into > the > > tank, > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already > added > > 6 > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it > up to > > the > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > later, > > add another > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. > 12 > > hours > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > teaspoons per > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > putting > > your > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your > fish > > to adjust > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), > if > > and/or when > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you > would > > then add 15 > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you > add > > it back > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially > one > > after the > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the > salt a > > chance to > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > happening to the > > > fish. > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > better > > and it's also > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies > like > > I did with > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include > my > > previous > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go > to > > the webpage > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever > this > > is under > > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a > few > > new white > > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it > seems > > to have > > > started on the body. > > > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned > that > > I can't get > > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got > canning > > salt, so I > > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a > 30 G > > tank, > > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > > times 12 hours > > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > > therapeutic > > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I > did > > see on the > > > company website that they can be used together). The problem > is > > that they > > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." > Is > > that > > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the > tank > > is, yet? > > > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. > I'll > > retest > > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > > Nitrate: >10 & > > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the > Goldfish > > are in now. > > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and > were > > all gone by > > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at > least > > another 6 > > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job > change > > and fewer > > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter > was > > run for a > > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was > turned > > off and my > > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > > components on eBay, > > > but never got around to it. > > > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > > arrived in a > > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > > back problems > > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and > they > > needed a new > > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for > about > > a year in > > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > > don't know > > > when or how that one died. > > > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour > and > > then > > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. > I > > believe the > > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no > cleaning > > was done. > > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish > arrived. > > > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > > sponge and > > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in > it. I > > picked up a > > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed > that > > it didn't > > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > > biofilter, but > > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully > there's > > enough > > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that > came > > with the > > > goldfish. > > > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM > does > > that to me > > > sometimes, lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message > clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 12/08/2008 > > > Tested on: 12/9/2008 5:34:19 AM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the S<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34308	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the need to question your present salt content and your methods with which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you could clarify this further if this is not the case. I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may be out-dated). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still > considered within acceptable limits. > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can > take more but not by a whole lot. > > The general question of whether you can add medications while there > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get > a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of > salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 > 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon > (not 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > seeming to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having > the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what > your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is > the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate > was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan > II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at > all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems > a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for > the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and > live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a > PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so > I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also > does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home > and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G > or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe > to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in > the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2752208 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2752208> or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2754035 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2754035> > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting > the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online > from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more > for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in > the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap > water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product > (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? > If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the > 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by > the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but > also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs > lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water > level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes > more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants > to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still > about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday > and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... > and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons > to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those > 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) > and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x > W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. > For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" > x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect > on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy > was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills > off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once > in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish > have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh > for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers > and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps > just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means > you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish > to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > (You'll also see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be > 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting > in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it > didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler > and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn > my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The > fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just > not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a > 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, > the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than > 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then > the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH > after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus > KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 > but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where > do > > I find test > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > Detroit > > area of > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the > tail > > and dorsal > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > disappearing. > > Raven > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting > dark > > spots, > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still > has > > a good > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 20 > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > water > > with 1T per > > > G salt) > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made > mental > > note to > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > > obvious and the > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > white > > areas, but > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as > always. > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in > there > > somewhere > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > > bubbles that > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme > bug- > > eye look, > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > grasses > > with > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll > just > > take a pair > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not > that > > I've ever > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > > plastic plants, > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > > up.. 7-10 days > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad > it > > was. Same > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > take a > > while for > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > Tablespoons > > which would > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one > more > > dose to > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > total of > > 90 > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should > start > > to have a > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us > know > > which day > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the > salt > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > > your tank. > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let > the > > ammonia get > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > ammonia in > > check. > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with > the > > same level > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > before > > adding the > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > > article on > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > > bucket. Test > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > dechlor. > > Test it > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > numbers > > will likely > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > baseline. > > Agitation > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > > This baseline > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > in > > your tap > > > water. > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > groups. I > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an > email > > and then I > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I > get > > the Daily > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > replies > > to a Daily > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. > I've > > never seen > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > > automatically > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > Daily > > Digests. > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > take a > > few seconds > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for > the > > thread they > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > > show in reply > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > > upgrades to the > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > > replies > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > messages in > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > looking > > for other > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > chronological order.. > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > longer > > threads. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > whitish > > areas > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > eyes. > > This may be a > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > > with that, > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured > than > > find her > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages > in > > a day, > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the > digest > > version go > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the > new > > messages. > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting > the > > digest > > > version. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > because > > the fish > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > white > > and the > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > looking > > exhausted > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was > using > > Rid-Ich+. > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking > at > > all those > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided > to > > try going > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > attendant > > for help. I > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > customers > > for rodent > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > > shavings, that > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet > much > > sooner, > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > keeping > > them in > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I > had > > time for. > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon > and > > the only > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > sealant. > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) > before > > going to > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > > another 2T > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > > replacement > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a > total > > of 6T in > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning > and > > 20T tomorrow > > > night. > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > > Carol Burnett) > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > other > > two (Lucille > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her > (?) > > dorsal fin > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though > it > > makes me > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > with > > adding > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > > higher nitrite > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > > either the > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > > nitrite level is > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > > protect the fish > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but > you > > need some to > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did > you > > ever add > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go > a > > long way... > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have > an up > > and > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > future, > > it would > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > fish > > were gone or > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > getting > > stagnant. > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > > weren't any > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > > worse. You've > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > > anyhow. > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > > malachite > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > > mentioned it. > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. > Four > > days isn't > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > > effect. > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > says to > > dose the > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a > nine > > day > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > weaker > > or what. > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > options... > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > Malachite > > green: > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > > parasites. > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a > stock > > solution > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the > stock > > solution > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > whatever > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many > mgs > > of > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > solution > > uses 20 > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 > mg > > malachite per > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > > Higher dose only > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with > 1 > > ml stock > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every > other > > day for a > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > > every three > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml > of > > stock > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should > only > > be used with > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly > to > > a wound, > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > fish's > > eyes and > > > gills. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > series of > > 25% PWC's > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > medicinally > > treated > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > remove > > the rest. > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > > will be the > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > > this fresh > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > > their > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > antibiotic.. > > were you > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > > interdiction or > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much > help > > with your > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > > treatment. > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > salt > > but DO NOT > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > treatment unless > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says > it's > > OK. It's > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions > from > > a very > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or > pet > > store > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > > fish a 24 > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > treatment... > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > > gallon), which is > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > with a > > dose of 1 > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute > this > > salt in a > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into > the > > tank, > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already > added > > 6 > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it > up to > > the > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > later, > > add another > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. > 12 > > hours > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > teaspoons per > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > putting > > your > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your > fish > > to adjust > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), > if > > and/or when > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you > would > > then add 15 > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you > add > > it back > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially > one > > after the > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the > salt a > > chance to > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > happening to the > > > fish. > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > better > > and it's also > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies > like > > I did with > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include > my > > previous > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go > to > > the webpage > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever > this > > is under > > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a > few > > new white > > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it > seems > > to have > > > started on the body. > > > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned > that > > I can't get > > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got > canning > > salt, so I > > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a > 30 G > > tank, > > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > > times 12 hours > > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > > therapeutic > > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I > did > > see on the > > > company website that they can be used together). The problem > is > > that they > > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." > Is > > that > > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the > tank > > is, yet? > > > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. > I'll > > retest > > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > > Nitrate: >10 & > > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the > Goldfish > > are in now. > > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and > were > > all gone by > > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at > least > > another 6 > > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job > change > > and fewer > > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter > was > > run for a > > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was > turned > > off and my > > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > > components on eBay, > > > but never got around to it. > > > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > > arrived in a > > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > > back problems > > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and > they > > needed a new > > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for > about > > a year in > > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > > don't know > > > when or how that one died. > > > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour > and > > then > > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. > I > > believe the > > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no > cleaning > > was done. > > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish > arrived. > > > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > > sponge and > > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in > it. I > > picked up a > > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed > that > > it didn't > > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > > biofilter, but > > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully > there's > > enough > > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that > came > > with the > > > goldfish. > > > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM > does > > that to me > > > sometimes, lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34309	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Ray, I think she is adding the replacement water properly dosed at 0.3% salt. I told her to do this since she lost track of the exact salt levels after the 30G/20G tank size mistake, so after a series of 4+, known 0.3% salt, 25% PWC's, the tank would be very close to that level. Whether it's 0.37% or 0.34% or even 0.27%, those levels are "close enough" to the 0.3% level so that further PWC's with 0.3% salt will only bring the water even closer to the prescribed 0.3% level. She may not have articulated that she was doing the PWC's with known 0.3% salt level replacement water. I think the ammonia and nitrite levels are coming down as the tank gets closer to being fully cycled and also as a result of the 2X/day PWC's. I think the PWC's are also reducing the nitrate levels as well... all good things for sick fish. Hopefully DebR will reply confirming my thoughts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the need to question your present salt content and your methods with which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you could clarify this further if this is not the case. I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may be out-dated). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still > considered within acceptable limits. > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can > take more but not by a whole lot. > > The general question of whether you can add medications while there > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get > a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of > salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 > 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon > (not 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > seeming to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having > the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what > your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is > the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate > was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan > II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at > all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems > a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for > the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and > live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a > PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so > I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also > does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home > and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G > or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe > to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in > the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> productId=2752208 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2752208> or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> productId=2754035 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2754035> > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting > the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online > from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more > for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in > the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap > water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product > (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? > If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the > 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by > the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but > also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs > lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water > level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes > more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants > to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still > about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday > and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... > and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons > to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those > 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) > and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x > W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. > For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" > x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect > on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy > was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills > off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once > in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish > have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh > for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers > and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps > just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means > you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish > to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be > 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting > in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it > didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler > and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn > my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The > fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just > not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a > 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, > the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than > 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then > the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH > after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus > KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 > but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where > do > > I find test > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > Detroit > > area of > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the > tail > > and dorsal > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > disappearing. > > Raven > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting > dark > > spots, > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still > has > > a good > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 20 > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > water > > with 1T per > > > G salt) > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made > mental > > note to > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > > obvious and the > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > white > > areas, but > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as > always. > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in > there > > somewhere > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > > bubbles that > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme > bug- > > eye look, > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > grasses > > with > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll > just > > take a pair > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not > that > > I've ever > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > > plastic plants, > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > > up.. 7-10 days > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad > it > > was. Same > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > take a > > while for > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > Tablespoons > > which would > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one > more > > dose to > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > total of > > 90 > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should > start > > to have a > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us > know > > which day > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the > salt > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > > your tank. > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let > the > > ammonia get > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > ammonia in > > check. > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with > the > > same level > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > before > > adding the > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > > article on > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > > bucket. Test > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > dechlor. > > Test it > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > numbers > > will likely > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > baseline. > > Agitation > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > > This baseline > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > in > > your tap > > > water. > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > groups. I > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an > email > > and then I > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I > get > > the Daily > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > replies > > to a Daily > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. > I've > > never seen > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > > automatically > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > Daily > > Digests. > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > take a > > few seconds > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for > the > > thread they > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > > show in reply > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > > upgrades to the > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > > replies > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > messages in > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > looking > > for other > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > chronological order.. > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > longer > > threads. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > whitish > > areas > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > eyes. > > This may be a > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > > with that, > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured > than > > find her > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages > in > > a day, > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the > digest > > version go > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the > new > > messages. > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting > the > > digest > > > version. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > because > > the fish > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > white > > and the > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > looking > > exhausted > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was > using > > Rid-Ich+. > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking > at > > all those > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided > to > > try going > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > attendant > > for help. I > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > customers > > for rodent > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > > shavings, that > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet > much > > sooner, > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > keeping > > them in > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I > had > > time for. > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon > and > > the only > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > sealant. > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) > before > > going to > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > > another 2T > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > > replacement > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a > total > > of 6T in > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning > and > > 20T tomorrow > > > night. > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > > Carol Burnett) > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > other > > two (Lucille > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her > (?) > > dorsal fin > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though > it > > makes me > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > with > > adding > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > > higher nitrite > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > > either the > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > > nitrite level is > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > > protect the fish > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but > you > > need some to > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did > you > > ever add > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go > a > > long way... > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have > an up > > and > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > future, > > it would > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > fish > > were gone or > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > getting > > stagnant. > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > > weren't any > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > > worse. You've > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > > anyhow. > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > > malachite > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > > mentioned it. > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. > Four > > days isn't > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > > effect. > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > says to > > dose the > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a > nine > > day > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > weaker > > or what. > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > options... > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > Malachite > > green: > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > > parasites. > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a > stock > > solution > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the > stock > > solution > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > whatever > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many > mgs > > of > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > solution > > uses 20 > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 > mg > > malachite per > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > > Higher dose only > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with > 1 > > ml stock > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every > other > > day for a > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > > every three > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml > of > > stock > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should > only > > be used with > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly > to > > a wound, > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > fish's > > eyes and > > > gills. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > series of > > 25% PWC's > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > medicinally > > treated > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > remove > > the rest. > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > > will be the > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > > this fresh > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > > their > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > antibiotic.. > > were you > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > > interdiction or > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much > help > > with your > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > > treatment. > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > salt > > but DO NOT > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > treatment unless > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says > it's > > OK. It's > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions > from > > a very > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or > pet > > store > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > > fish a 24 > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > treatment... > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > > gallon), which is > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > with a > > dose of 1 > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute > this > > salt in a > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into > the > > tank, > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already > added > > 6 > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it > up to > > the > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > later, > > add another > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. > 12 > > hours > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > teaspoons per > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > putting > > your > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your > fish > > to adjust > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), > if > > and/or when > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you > would > > then add 15 > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you > add > > it back > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially > one > > after the > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the > salt a > > chance to > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > happening to the > > > fish. > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > better > > and it's also > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies > like > > I did with > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include > my > > previous > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go > to > > the webpage > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever > this > > is under > > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a > few > > new white > > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it > seems > > to have > > > started on the body. > > > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned > that > > I can't get > > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got > canning > > salt, so I > > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a > 30 G > > tank, > > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > > times 12 hours > > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > > therapeutic > > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I > did > > see on the > > > company website that they can be used together). The problem > is > > that they > > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." > Is > > that > > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the > tank > > is, yet? > > > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. > I'll > > retest > > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > > Nitrate: >10 & > > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the > Goldfish > > are in now. > > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and > were > > all gone by > > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at > least > > another 6 > > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job > change > > and fewer > > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter > was > > run for a > > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was > turned > > off and my > > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > > components on eBay, > > > but never got around to it. > > > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > > arrived in a > > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > > back problems > > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and > they > > needed a new > > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for > about > > a year in > > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > > don't know > > > when or how that one died. > > > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour > and > > then > > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. > I > > believe the > > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no > cleaning > > was done. > > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish > arrived. > > > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > > sponge and > > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in > it. I > > picked up a > > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed > that > > it didn't > > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > > biofilter, but > > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully > there's > > enough > > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that > came > > with the > > > goldfish. > > > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM > does > > that to me > > > sometimes, lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 7:06:53 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 7:17:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34310	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: santa and craigslist

I have to admit I was getting discouraged with sending regular "wanted" posts to craigslist and freecycle .... I've been on the freecycle list for several years... but after 6 mos of begging I scored with a 55 gal tank, if I had a big enough vehicle I could have had a lovely oak stand too. All free, with accessories, only for the labor of a major cleaning. I added the used gravel to my driveway gravel! So now that my MTS is official, wondering where to put it. I just thought I'd share this because it is such an expensive hobby we need to save $$ where we can, and why should all this stuff go in the trash? I don't mean to gloat but to encourage you all - keep on trying those freebie lists.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: santa and craigslist

Excellent Find!!! Too bad you couldn't get that stand too. Don't you know anyone with a pickup truck? And if you get enough of them deals, you'll have the prettiest driveway in the neighborhood. ;-) Hopefully you don't live in an HOA where they'll fine you for it. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diana Brooks Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] santa and craigslist I have to admit I was getting discouraged with sending regular "wanted" posts to craigslist and freecycle .... I've been on the freecycle list for several years... but after 6 mos of begging I scored with a 55 gal tank, if I had a big enough vehicle I could have had a lovely oak stand too. All free, with accessories, only for the labor of a major cleaning. I added the used gravel to my driveway gravel! So now that my MTS is official, wondering where to put it. I just thought I'd share this because it is such an expensive hobby we need to save $$ where we can, and why should all this stuff go in the trash? I don't mean to gloat but to encourage you all - keep on trying those freebie lists. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 8:21:31 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34312	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

The feeding of squashed green peas as the first approach to bloating in anticipation that the condition is no more than constipation rather than internal infection is the most prudent advice, and certainly can't hurt any even if this isn't the problem -- and quite often works if it is the problem. I realize you know, but for the benefit of others I'll just mention the use of Epsom salts is also another approach to this condition (which I won't go into here) -- but not before first trying green peas. If anyone needs further info on this when such a condition is encountered, one may ask any of us at that time. Luckily, I haven't had too many disease problems either, but I've found that the longer one remains in the hobby, the greater the chance that sooner or later some of their fish (in my case -- mine!) may contract any one or more of these diseases over time. With some of these problems early on, and with a myriad of medication selections from which to choose from, I made it one of my pursuits to delve into the study of fish diseases and their varied medications used to treat them -- including the best of these medications specific for use in treatment of most diseases one is likely to encounter. With studies of these subjects digested, I further found it a necessity to get into it even deeper when confronted with the needs to advise my customers in matters of fish diseases when I was managing the water gardens outlet I just mentioned (Tricker's Water Gardens -- now known as Waterford Gardens -- which you may have heard of). More specifically, being ongoingly plagued upon occasion over nearly 50 years of breeding Angelfish with them sometimes getting the dreaded Hexamita disease without any SURE CURE except for using Metronidazole which is HIT OR MISS, I made it my personal crusade to develop a cure for this once and for all, that would finally work. Strange how you get drawn into something like this when not really intending to, but the info gained comes in handy. And, when I first started in this hobby, I had hoped I wouldn't have a need for this and really tried to avoid it as being too much to have to absorb. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I saw your long post advising about various medications/treatments (and it's > in this thread, several posts down), which is when I replied to DebR to > follow your advice since you are more experienced than I am. > > Hopefully, DebR got your long post as well.. or will scroll down to your TWO > December 10th long posts. > > I've been blessed to NOT have very many sick fish over the years and most > quickly healed up using proper tank maintenance, good ol' clean water, salt, > Melafix, Pimafix and Jungle medicated foods. I've never had to use anything > stronger. The ones I have lost were more related to "old age" so I readily > admit that I am not the best person for prescribing advanced fish medical > advice. My forte' is more in line with preventing the sick fish in the > first place by practicing good fish keeping habits and many of the basic > fish health issues but once things get beyond the illness basics, I'll leave > the advanced medical stuff to the experts like you.. and keep reading and > learning from you all... and hoping I never need the information. > > Here is a snip of what DebR said in her post for Day 8 of the salt > treatment: > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > At first, I thought the swelling might be internal bacterial but after > thinking about it, realized it could just be osmoregulatory water retention > from the salt treatment. > > Hopefully, DebR can get one of your suggested meds at a reasonable price and > treat the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 5:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Lenny, Okay -- thanks for filling me in. But, what happened to the > post I just got done sending on this. Well, more wasted effort -- > chalk another one up to the cyberspace gremlins, or Yahoo. Let's try > this one over again, if I can remember just what I wanted to say from > the first time (don't mind my rambling -- just frustrated from losing > another one I put time into with nothing to show for it). > > I do recall reading of some internal issues somewhere among these > many posts, even recalling feeding peas to some fish as I said, but I > don't know where they were messaged. I haven't seen any references > to bloating in this subject in any recent posts, at least not in any > threads here I've been able to follow. Quite often, at least some > readers rebuke at having to read a long continous series of posts in > any one thread, but then the continuation of a thread is often quite > useful (if not essential) in trying to follow the subject matter at > hand. I suspect somewhere along the line this thread was probably > broken, hence any mention of bloating was lost. > > Continuing on bloating, yes when the salinity exceeds that at which a > freshwater species can regulate this additional osmotic pressure > beyond which it can comfortably deal with, water retention will be > seen as a result of it. Having seen no mention of this in the more > recent threads, hopefully this issue has passed with the reduction of > the salt level. > > I would dismiss any reference to Malachite Green in its context with > its use against fungus in this instance, only as it can be effective > against some forms, but it would not be my choice of medication > either for Saprolegnia (true body fungus -- cottony growths) or > Columnaris ("fungus-like" bacterial infection). With the hope that > an internal infection is no longer a possible danger, I know of no > antibiotics which will address such issues and at the same time be > effective against fungus. Medications of choice for internal > bacterial infections would be either Kanamycin or Naladixic Acid, > both readily absorbed internally, and while Kanamycin is effective > against Columnaris, neither of these two meds are useful against > fungus. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > In a recent reply by DebR, she mentioned one of the fish was > appearing > > bloated (her quote: "because CB seems a bit rounder than usual") > which could > > be internal bacterial but could also be attributable to > osmoregulation > > issues and holding fluids from the salted water treatment. > > > > Another reason we thought it might be bacterial rather than fungal > was that > > she was treating with Malachite Green early on which wasn't having > any > > effect on the fungus. > > > > OK. I've got my whiteboard out, now where's House? ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:36 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > In going back over the threads of this subject, I can't find any > > reference to any internal disorders, although I do remember some > > members being suggested to feed peas to their fish to help them with > > digestive disorders, although I don't recall seeing that here. There > > was also some talk about fin and tail rot, but again, I can't find > > this here in this long thread -- direct me if I missed anything on > > either of these issues. > > > > I do see references made to "white stuff" on the fish and more > > recently, "cottony stuff" on the caudal and dorsal bases on both CB > > and Raven -- which to me strongly indicates the manifestation of > > Fungus on these fish. If Columnaris is involved, and mouth "fungus" > > as one of these forms can take on this appearance when first > > starting, I haven't seen anything pointing towards that -- except > > for "white stuff," but bodily Columnaris is rarely that localized -- > > any whiteness as a result of this disease would be more generally > > spread. Its the "cottony" appearance that pinpoints it right back to > > Fungus when associated with localized areas. > > > > Fortunately, these terrific medications (Nitrofurazone and > > Furadolizone) cover all bases and are greatly anti-fungal as well as > > being great broad-spectrum anti-biotics. Aside only from Triple- > > Sulfa (a primarily gram-negative antibiotic), I know of no better > > medication for treating Columnaris, even though Oxytetracycline > would > > be as equal, and at the same pH and hardness values -- up to pH 8.0 > > in hard water. But, these two medications (Triple-Sulfa and > > Oxytetracycline) are not without their drawbacks of erradicating > your > > nitrifying bacteria. I won't rule out Oxolinic Acid as a good > > treatment against Columnaris either. Note; if the pH is over 8.0, > > you want to go to Triple-Sulfa, if the water is high in calcium and > > magnesium (which it often accompanies), Nitrofurans lose their > > potency above pH 8.0 as they bind up with these elements. > > > > For strickly fungal infections, while the two afore-mentioned > > medications will act on this, the two 'zones' (Nitrofurazone and > > Furadolizone) in combination are more effective than either one of > > these -- and not being directly derived from bacteria culturing as a > > product of them (as are many of the meds in the > Penacyllin/Kanamycin, > > etc. families) they are said not to interfere with the nitrifying > > bacteria cultures. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > DebR, > > > > > > Disregard most of my previous reply and follow Ray's advice. He's > > much more > > > experienced than I am. I know the thread was started as a fungus > > problem > > > but then I thought that somewhere along the line, you said it > > looked more > > > like Columnaris (bacterial.. that often appears to be fungal). > > > > > > Unless Ray comments on this post, follow his treatment directions > > below. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:31 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number > of > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > (unless > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > gallons > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 > 1/2 > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon > (not > > 3 > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > measure > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming > > to > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > > the > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what > your > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > adversely > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > > fungus. > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > gradually > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > tolerate > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > > days > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > > suddenly > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > nitrite > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > discrepency > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > > you > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > Buddies -- > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > generally > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > > were doing. > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for > the > > > bigger > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > > little (or > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > > > surface > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > > > plants are > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > > > Cooler > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > > start to turn > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a > PWC > > > yesterday) > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > > > can see > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > > > into an > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > > > carbon will > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > > > not remove > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > > carbon filter. > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home > and > > > I would > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > > simply isn't > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > > you'll be > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > > Betta tank was > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > > > 2G of water. > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > > > worry about > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > > simplicity... > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > > weekly basis. > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > > > world, I > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > > > > > > or > > > a $5.00 - > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > > > > > > > > > would last > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > > changing 25% > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > > > probably much > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > > > but it's > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > > > whomever I'm > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more > for > > > shipping > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > > > using the > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > > > future. Test > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > > break the > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > > > a Brita > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > > search down > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > > > is right > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > > don't add > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap > water > > > and > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > > > helps Raven > > > > any. > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product > (which > > > one do you > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > > > you didn't > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the > 0.5ppm > > > after > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > > water is > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > > chlorine and > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > > > when cycling > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > > tank, it will > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by > the > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > > > in other > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > > itself. The > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > > > with the > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > > cycling issues, > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > > testing and > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > > > of O2 and if > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > > > This can be > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water > level > > > a little.. > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes > more > > > surface > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > ingasing/outgasing > > > at the > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > > you'll have to > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles > > referenced > > > above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > > doing a lot of > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > > hiding under the > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > > adding the salt. > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > > > sit on the > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > > disappearing. > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: not > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still > about > > > 25T in a > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > > > it's > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > > male, I guess > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > > gallon) are used > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > > > it's > > > > working. > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > > > per gallon > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > > bring the > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > > typing my > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > > doing this.. > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > > make sure your > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > > > every five > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > > > buckets for > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > > > fill it to > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > > > then slowly > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > > same mark to > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > > mark is you > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > > > lot when > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" > x > > > H" and > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. > For > > > your > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > > square/rectangular > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x > W" > > > x H" = > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on > the > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > > probably just > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > > > more > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > Sometimes > > > we have to > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > > > all of the > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > > > hate saying > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in > a > > > while, we > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have > a > > > HUGE will > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > > conditions > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > > > give proper > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > > > you... and > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > > > to sex > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > > tell but males > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > > > the leading > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > > > time and > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps > just > > > on the > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means > you > > > have a > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > > > him to > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > > > have found > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > > > them. LOL > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > > > know what to > > > > look for. > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > 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<http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > > (You'll > > also > > > see the > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34313	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Buying a used tank, what to look for....

I found a guy that has a 55 gal. with a black wooden stand and (2) HOT magnum filters (and some other stuff) for sale for $150. Now, should I worry about the silicone joints in the tank? Do they dry out? Can the magnum filters be used without an undergravel filter? Any other things to look for? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34314	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: window film

Good Morning \\Steve// � You must remember, �cold� is a relative term and it depends where you�re standing when you used it.� Here is Pa for instance, on this icy-cold morning at 32 degrees some would say that�s cold!� Bill would say �its another beautiful day in Northern Eastern Pa. � Bill thinks anything above 68 degrees is a full-scale heat wave!� As for those folks down in the Big Easy?�� They got great food but lousy weather!� Toooooo much heat and with the storms they have; I wouldn�t go anywhere without an armored personal carrier!� They are fierce! � Stand-by, I have a very tough posting coming up today and need your counseling and advice and that goes for the rest of the �heavy hitters� on here too.� You might have to get your notebook out for this one! � Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:29 PM Sure does, and what do you mean by " Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D"? First, everyone knows it doesn't get cold in New Orleans in the winter. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Does that mean I have to open my southern-exposure windows for my wintertime > no-tan-lines sunbathing efforts? Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Glass itself is a pretty good blocker of UV rays, so the 90% they are > claiming, is that the film itself, or the amount that does not penetrate the > glass and film? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it > will > > block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes > through > > from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the > thin > > layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to > 99% of > > UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that > I've > > ever tried that! LOL > > > > None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out > during the > > summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself > isn't > > heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal > heat > > loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of > morning > > or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little > cooler > > but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the > ambient > > temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. > > > > To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated > windows > > (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those > windows or > > the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall > > stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the > > plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of > > insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would > work > > during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air > conditioning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Jennie > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- platinum. htm > > <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- platinum. htm> > > <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- platinum. htm > > <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- platinum. htm> > > > This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an > plastic > > aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at > night > > with insulation. > > Thanks > > > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM > > > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective > film > > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating > up the > > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage > and > > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like > acrylic > > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron > thick > > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. > It > > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I > doubt > > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes > and > > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like > fiberglass, > > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air > layer, > > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test > this > > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain > glass > > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a > nickel, > > there's none. > > > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in > chemical > > composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much > different > > chemical composition. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on > > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. > > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good > idea? > > > > Jennie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34315	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

Let's hear it for the people without GH and KH-------that's right where I live! Ray's says "absolutely necessary" stand by folks, I have a beauty of a posting coming up today.  It's called Breaking The Rules!  Everybody better get their notebooks out for this one!   Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 4:42 AM Lenny, It would seem to me that with this KH test resulting in "no reading," that says the same to me as 0 (zero) if there is nothing during the test that changes any color indicating the presence of any carbonates. By that, any other tests, even the missing GH test, will have no bearing on the fact that there is absolutely no buffering capacity in this water. As a result, unless this tank is being changed out daily with large PWC's, the propensity for this tank's pH to suddenly crash is immense. While mutually established by all of us as the best route to follow as the most prudent approach to water chemistry, its usually recommended not to try to play with it -- except on rare occasions when it might be absolutely necessary as the only way to safely use the water. It would seem here, with no buffering capacity, that this may be one of those rare exceptions when crushed coral, or cuttle bone as you suggest, would need to be used as a way to establish at least some carbonates to ensure against such a pH crash. Now, I may not be fully understanding the meaning of "no reading" as the outcome of the test results for the KH reading, as this is not clarified -- but if there is no reading as a result of this test, that equates to Zero to me. It would appear the same to me as getting a "no reading" (CLEAR -- COLORLESS) result from an ammonia test -- which would tell me the ammonia level is at Zero. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Yes. So now you know that your tank water should have close to a 7.0 pH > subject to lowering once the tank's ecology gets a hold of it. You should > decide if you want to keep fish that prefer acidic water since the pH will > likely come down even further as you've seen. We still do not know your GH > readings. It's unlikely but you could have really hard water with very low > carbonate hardness (KH). I wouldn't try to do anything with the chemistry > in most cases.. and especially if I do not know all of the numbers. > > You mentioned early on that you have two other 10G tanks, besides this 46G > tank, and the pH is staying around 7.0 in those tanks. Do you have anything > different in those or maybe just a lighter bioload of fish/plants? Since > you mentioned crushed coral, do you have that in those tanks? I asked about > this in one of my earlier replies. > > Yes, a sudden pH crash can be harmful, even fatal to fish but if your tank > is stabile, then as long as you do your twice weekly PWC's and filter > maintenance, you should be fine. > > Once you get the GH test kit and results from your tap water baseline and > tank GH, then we'll have more info to know whether you need to do > anything... but more than likely, if your fish have been doing well on your > water, then you should be fine. I use a few broken off pieces of Cuttle > Bone (yes, the kind they feed parakeets) in my cherry shrimp tank filter to > add calcium carbonate to the tank.. mainly for the calcium so the shrimp can > develop proper shells. Crushed coral will basically do the same thing but > Cuttle Bone was easier and cheaper for me and I didn't have to use a filter > media bag. When the pieces of Cuttle Bone get so small that I can easily > pick them out of the filter reservoir, when doing filter maintenance, then I > just dump them and add a few more pieces. A single 99 cent Cuttle Bone > lasts for years on a 10G cherry shrimp tank. I also used to drop pieces in > my other tank when I had Mystery Snails and they would actually nibble on > it... at least it looked like they were. I tried dropping a piece in with > my cherry shrimp but they don't touch it as far as food goes so I just put > it in the filter reservoir. > > On a related note, do you have a water softener unit on your home.. or any > other kind of home filtration system? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > Here are the final results of the water baseline test: > Values reading right out of the tap: > KH: no reading > PH: 8.2 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > After 24 hours: > KH: no reading > PH: 7.0 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > After 48 hours: > KH: no reading > PH: 7.0 > Ammonia: 0.5 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrates: 0 > > Questions: > - Should we consider the test completed? > - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden big PH drops? I > understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard that a sudden PH > drop could shock them. > - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral would increase > KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as soon as I get > it. > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a year, at > most, > > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of what is > > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. More than > likely, > > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have been times > when > > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria > > will start converting the ammonia (usually associated with the ammonia > part of > > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is one of > > the reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our drinking > water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % 40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > > KH no reading > > PH 8.2 > > Ammonia 0.5 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrates 0 > > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > > Questions: > > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their value > is 0? I > > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > > - How about ammonia and KH? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You > > either need > > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding > > > something to raise > > the pH > > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion in > > the city > > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > > dissipates/deterior ates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then > > once the > > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. Often, a > > utility > > > will add > > > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry issues by > > keeping > > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming the pH > > will > > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH (acidic) > > and soft > > > water. > > > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact them > > to get > > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are adding to > > > the water. > > > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to the > > fifth > > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the condition > > you are > > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour baseline. It > > would > > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > > > http://www.malawici chlidhomepage. com/aquainfo/ water_purificati on.htm > > > l > > > <http://www.malawici chlidhomepage. com/aquainfo/ water_purificati on.ht > > > ml> > > > <http://www.malawici chlidhomepage. com/aquainfo/ water_purificati on.ht > > > ml > > > <http://www.malawici chlidhomepage. com/aquainfo/ water_purificati on.ht > > > ml> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced > > > above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final results. > > > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result on > > both tap > > > water and tank water > > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March 08) > > > to > > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 > > gallon tank > > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the > > > filter > > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2- 3 > > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > > > - I don't have a GH test > > > - I use tap water from public utility > > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , > > > "goldlenny_blogspot " > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a gallon > > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all of > > > your > > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add your > > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > > > hours > > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers changed. > > > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested the > > > rest > > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, give us > > > > those numbers. > > > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? Are > > > you > > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and KH? > > > What > > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well or ??? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com> <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com> > <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com> <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://goldlenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > > <giuseppesalvato@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, 5 > > > neon > > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 > > > > > cory > > > > cats > > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > > Parameters are: > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading for > > > > > the > > > > test > > > > > kit) > > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays yellow > > > > from > > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon > > > > > tanks > > > > with > > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > > > capacity > > > > and > > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > > > capacity > > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/10/2008 6:06:30 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34316	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Lenny, Alright, that makes perfectly good sense, and excellent advice. I was wondering how she was keeping track of the salt content, when it's so easy to ose track of -- especially if one's not familiar with doing this. I don't believe I saw any reductions in the ammonia or nitrite levels, but then I just may be losing track of it all, after all this (lol). If a real reduction has taken place, all the better for these fish. With medications now in place, DebR should know that PWC's can only be made at the time just before re-dosing of them, and no longer 2-X a day -- just as a reminder, although I'm sure she must realize this. Can't otherwise beat that frequent of PWC's though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I think she is adding the replacement water properly dosed at 0.3% salt. I > told her to do this since she lost track of the exact salt levels after the > 30G/20G tank size mistake, so after a series of 4+, known 0.3% salt, 25% > PWC's, the tank would be very close to that level. Whether it's 0.37% or > 0.34% or even 0.27%, those levels are "close enough" to the 0.3% level so > that further PWC's with 0.3% salt will only bring the water even closer to > the prescribed 0.3% level. > > She may not have articulated that she was doing the PWC's with known 0.3% > salt level replacement water. > > I think the ammonia and nitrite levels are coming down as the tank gets > closer to being fully cycled and also as a result of the 2X/day PWC's. I > think the PWC's are also reducing the nitrate levels as well... all good > things for sick fish. > > Hopefully DebR will reply confirming my thoughts. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the > need to question your present salt content and your methods with > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may > be out-dated). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus > Cure) > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as > energetic as yesterday morning > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it > in > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is > not > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > injurious > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's > still > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank > is > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent > PWC's > > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out > you > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, > and > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their > diet > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add > it. > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to > water > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough > water > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not > too > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that > much > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp > per > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > range. > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even > though > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, > if > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae > are > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they > can > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications while > there > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications > (and > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part > of > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > additional > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor > will > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > treatments. > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd > and > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was > off. > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline > with > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the > tank. > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of > the > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal > today, > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > > number of > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to > some > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in > their > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, > it > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > > (unless > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > > gallons > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with > 30 > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd > like to > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can > get > > a > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp > of > > salt > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate > to 4 > > 1/2 > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > > their > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > gallon > > (not 3 > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I > felt it > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > > measure > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > > limits > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > > seeming to > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > having > > the > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > somewhere in > > the > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just > what > > your > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > > adversely > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of > the > > > fungus. > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > > your > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this > is > > the > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of > other > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > > gradually > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > > tolerate > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > Anacharis -- > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of > several > > days > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both > your > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > > suddenly > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > > nitrite > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > nitrate > > was > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > > discrepency > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result > (or > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd > suggest > > you > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > > Those > > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s > Furan > > II, > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > > Buddies -- > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > > Green > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, > Fungal > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat > weak > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > > generally > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the > what we > > > were doing. > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved > at > > all > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems > to be > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of > her > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB > seems > > a > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > getting I > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money > for > > the > > > bigger > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the > water a > > > little (or > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > > enough > > > surface > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That > and > > live > > > plants are > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > > down. > > > Cooler > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven > will > > > start to turn > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't > do a > > PWC > > > yesterday) > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level > so > > I > > > can see > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > > look > > > into an > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right > now. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > > activated > > > carbon will > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon > also > > does > > > not remove > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just > an A- > > > carbon filter. > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old > home > > and > > > I would > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank > but it > > > simply isn't > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water > that > > > you'll be > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on > my > > > Betta tank was > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose > 1G > > or > > > 2G of water. > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise > syringe > > to > > > worry about > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter > for > > > simplicity... > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's > on a > > > weekly basis. > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst > in > > the > > > world, I > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for > the > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2752208 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2752208> or > > > a $5.00 - > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2754035 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2754035> > > > would last > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank > and > > > changing 25% > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > > years ... > > > probably much > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on > the > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > > water > > > but it's > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > getting > > the > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > online > > from > > > whomever I'm > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying > more > > for > > > shipping > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > > without > > > using the > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use > in > > the > > > future. Test > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor > will > > > break the > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > > through > > > a Brita > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things > (I'll > > > search down > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > > reading > > > is right > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > filter. I > > > don't add > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight > tap > > water > > > and > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > > aeration > > > helps Raven > > > > any. > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > product > > (which > > > one do you > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the > dechlor? > > If > > > you didn't > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see > the > > 0.5ppm > > > after > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your > tap > > > water is > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by > binding > > > chlorine and > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > > especially > > > when cycling > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully > cycled > > > tank, it will > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > handled by > > the > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system > but > > also > > > in other > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the > sickness > > > itself. The > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > > balance > > > with the > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > through > > > cycling issues, > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing > your > > > testing and > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish > needs > > lots > > > of O2 and if > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > This can be > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the > water > > level > > > a little.. > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water > causes > > more > > > surface > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > ingasing/outgasing > > > at the > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the > water. > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and > then > > > you'll have to > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles > > referenced > > > above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She > is > > > doing a lot of > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) > is > > > hiding under the > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > started > > > adding the salt. > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and > wants > > to > > > sit on the > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are > slowly > > > disappearing. > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: not > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is > still > > about > > > 25T in a > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > yesterday > > and > > > it's > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to > be a > > > male, I guess > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons > per > > > gallon) are used > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > goldfish... > > and > > > it's > > > > working. > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > > teaspoons > > > per gallon > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will > slowly > > > bring the > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I > started > > > typing my > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already > started > > > doing this.. > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water > just to > > > make sure your > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > teaspoons > > to > > > every five > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use > those > > 5G > > > buckets for > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > > bucket, > > > fill it to > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, > etc.) > > and > > > then slowly > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use > the > > > same mark to > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G > or 3G > > > mark is you > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > > spill a > > > lot when > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, > L" x > > W" x > > > H" and > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > yourself. > > For > > > your > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > > square/rectangular > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. > L" > > x W" > > > x H" = > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse > effect > > on the > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > > probably just > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > healthy > > was > > > more > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > > Sometimes > > > we have to > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely > kills > > off > > > all of the > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > > always > > > hate saying > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every > once > > in a > > > while, we > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > Goldfish > > have a > > > HUGE will > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > > conditions > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > > doesn't > > > give proper > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, > etc.. > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his > sleigh > > for > > > you... and > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > > difficult > > > to sex > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > harder to > > > tell but males > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill > covers > > and > > > the leading > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > > first > > > time and > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white > bumps > > just > > > on the > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that > means > > you > > > have a > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > > rename > > > him to > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the > fish > > to > > > have found > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > > with > > > them. LOL > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > > you'll > > > know what to > > > > look for. > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't > be > > 1.0 > > > again > > > > tomorrow > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was > putting > > in. > > > I just > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking > it > > didn't > > > feel like > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > > Today > > > when I did > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a > ruler > > and > > > it was > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to > count > > > gallons as I > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have > sworn > > my > > > dd told me > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > > yesterday > > > I removed > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > 27.5T. > > > Tonight I removed > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. > The > > fish > > > seem to be > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and > just > > not > > > add any salt > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level > for a > > 20 > > > gallon tank. > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the > extra > > > salt. It's > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > > goldfish. > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 10 > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita > filter): > > > pH:7.4; > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > readings, > > the > > > pH usually > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower > than > > 7.6 > > > and > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range > test > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > > combination > > > pack GH and > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having > the > > > four basics > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > goldfish > > > since your pH > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > > water. > > > As your > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, > then > > the > > > GH and KH > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in > pH > > after > > > a week, > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > > capital > > > H since it > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > > capitalized for > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > Alkalinity in > > > some test > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > > instead > > > of CH is > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > > hardness > > > and Karbonat > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, > thus > > KH. > > > A German > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually > 17.85 > > but > > > 18 for > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > > 180ppm, > > > that would > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. > Where > > do > > > I find test > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > > Detroit > > > area of > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the > summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of > the > > tail > > > and dorsal > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > disappearing. > > > Raven > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > getting > > dark > > > spots, > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but > still > > has > > > a good > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 20 > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > > water > > > with 1T per > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so > made > > mental > > > note to > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems > less > > > obvious and the > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > > white > > > areas, but > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant > as > > always. > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria > in > > there > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the > huge > > > bubbles that > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an > extreme > > bug- > > > eye look, > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > > grasses > > > with > > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe > I'll > > just > > > take a pair > > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least > not > > that > > > I've ever > > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with > decorations, > > > plastic plants, > > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start > clearing > > > up.. 7-10 days > > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how > bad > > it > > > was. Same > > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > > take a > > > while for > > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > > Tablespoons > > > which would > > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have > one > > more > > > dose to > > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > > total of > > > 90 > > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt > should > > start > > > to have a > > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let > us > > know > > > which day > > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with > the > > salt > > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of > 7.5 in > > > your tank. > > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT > let > > the > > > ammonia get > > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > > ammonia in > > > check. > > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it > with > > the > > > same level > > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > > before > > > adding the > > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a > blog > > > article on > > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a > gallon > > > bucket. Test > > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > > dechlor. > > > Test it > > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > > numbers > > > will likely > > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > > baseline. > > > Agitation > > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, > etc. > > > This baseline > > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate > > in > > > your tap > > > > water. > > > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > > groups. I > > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in > an > > email > > > and then I > > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when > I > > get > > > the Daily > > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > > replies > > > to a Daily > > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their > reply. > > I've > > > never seen > > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so > it > > > automatically > > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > > Daily > > > Digests. > > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > > take a > > > few seconds > > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except > for > > the > > > thread they > > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it > doesn't > > > show in reply > > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made > the > > > upgrades to the > > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group > the > > > replies > > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > > messages in > > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > > looking > > > for other > > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > > chronological order.. > > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > > longer > > > threads. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > > whitish > > > areas > > > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > > eyes. > > > This may be a > > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't > mess > > > with that, > > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be > reassured > > than > > > find her > > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 > messages > > in > > > a day, > > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get > the > > digest > > > version go > > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find > the > > new > > > messages. > > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before > getting > > the > > > digest > > > > version. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > > because > > > the fish > > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > > white > > > and the > > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > > looking > > > exhausted > > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I > was > > using > > > Rid-Ich+. > > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got > looking > > at > > > all those > > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I > decided > > to > > > try going > > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > > attendant > > > for help. I > > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > > customers > > > for rodent > > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or > pine > > > shavings, that > > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new > pet > > much > > > sooner, > > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > > keeping > > > them in > > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all > I > > had > > > time for. > > > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday > afternoon > > and > > > the only > > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > > sealant. > > > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night > (Sunday) > > before > > > going to > > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I > added > > > another 2T > > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to > the > > > replacement > > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is > a > > total > > > of 6T in > > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the > morning > > and > > > 20T tomorrow > > > > night. > > > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short > for > > > Carol Burnett) > > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > > other > > > two (Lucille > > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). > Her > > (?) > > > dorsal fin > > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even > though > > it > > > makes me > > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > > with > > > adding > > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading > and a > > > higher nitrite > > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not > complete. If > > > either the > > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your > current > > > nitrite level is > > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water > will > > > protect the fish > > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have > but > > you > > > need some to > > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. > Did > > you > > > ever add > > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would > go > > a > > > long way... > > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually > have > > an up > > > and > > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > > future, > > > it would > > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > > fish > > > were gone or > > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > > getting > > > stagnant. > > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully > there > > > weren't any > > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make > things > > > worse. You've > > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old > water > > > anyhow. > > > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds > (the > > > malachite > > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you > never > > > mentioned it. > > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to > work. > > Four > > > days isn't > > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a > major > > > effect. > > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > > says to > > > dose the > > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be > a > > nine > > > day > > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > > weaker > > > or what. > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > > options... > > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > > Malachite > > > green: > > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and > protozoan > > > parasites. > > > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as > a > > stock > > > solution > > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of > the > > stock > > > solution > > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > > whatever > > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how > many > > mgs > > > of > > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > > solution > > > uses 20 > > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives > 20 > > mg > > > malachite per > > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 > minutes. > > > Higher dose only > > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates > with > > 1 > > > ml stock > > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated > every > > other > > > day for a > > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: > Repeat > > > every three > > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to > 1ml > > of > > > stock > > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose > should > > only > > > be used with > > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied > directly > > to > > > a wound, > > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > > fish's > > > eyes and > > > > gills. > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > > series of > > > 25% PWC's > > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > > medicinally > > > treated > > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > > remove > > > the rest. > > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned > treatment > > > will be the > > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish > rest in > > > this fresh > > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to > give > > > their > > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any > meds. > > > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > > antibiotic.. > > > were you > > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for > early > > > interdiction or > > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as > much > > help > > > with your > > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a > salt > > > treatment. > > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > > salt > > > but DO NOT > > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > > treatment unless > > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and > says > > it's > > > OK. It's > > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific > instructions > > from > > > a very > > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store > or > > pet > > > store > > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving > the > > > fish a 24 > > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > > treatment... > > > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons > per > > > gallon), which is > > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > > with a > > > dose of 1 > > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and > dilute > > this > > > salt in a > > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back > into > > the > > > tank, > > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you > already > > added > > > 6 > > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring > it > > up to > > > the > > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > > later, > > > add another > > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to > 0.2%. > > 12 > > > hours > > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > > teaspoons per > > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > > putting > > > your > > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for > your > > fish > > > to adjust > > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon), > > if > > > and/or when > > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), > you > > would > > > then add 15 > > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before > you > > add > > > it back > > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, > especially > > one > > > after the > > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give > the > > salt a > > > chance to > > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > > happening to the > > > > fish. > > > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > > better > > > and it's also > > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your > replies > > like > > > I did with > > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't > include > > my > > > previous > > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to > go > > to > > > the webpage > > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get > whatever > > this > > > is under > > > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing > a > > few > > > new white > > > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though > it > > seems > > > to have > > > > started on the body. > > > > > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages > mentioned > > that > > > I can't get > > > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got > > canning > > > salt, so I > > > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. > For a > > 30 G > > > tank, > > > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two > more > > > times 12 hours > > > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with > maintaining > > > therapeutic > > > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I > believe I > > did > > > see on the > > > > company website that they can be used together). The > problem > > is > > > that they > > > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if > possible." > > Is > > > that > > > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced > the > > tank > > > is, yet? > > > > > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of > AmQuel+Plus. > > I'll > > > retest > > > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 > ppm, > > > Nitrate: >10 & > > > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the > > Goldfish > > > are in now. > > > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and > > were > > > all gone by > > > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for > at > > least > > > another 6 > > > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a > job > > change > > > and fewer > > > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the > filter > > was > > > run for a > > > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter > was > > turned > > > off and my > > > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > > > components on eBay, > > > > but never got around to it. > > > > > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. > They > > > arrived in a > > > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than > that > > > back problems > > > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and > > they > > > needed a new > > > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them > for > > about > > > a year in > > > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, > but I > > > don't know > > > > when or how that one died. > > > > > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an > hour > > and > > > then > > > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our > tank. > > I > > > believe the > > > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no > > cleaning > > > was done. > > > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish > > arrived. > > > > > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a > new > > > sponge and > > > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter > in > > it. I > > > picked up a > > > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and > noticed > > that > > > it didn't > > > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't > have a > > > biofilter, but > > > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully > > there's > > > enough > > > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water > that > > came > > > with the > > > > goldfish. > > > > > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 > AM > > does > > > that to me > > > > sometimes, lol. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/11/2008 7:06:53 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/11/2008 7:17:47 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34317	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film)

I told y'all we had a blizzard coming! It's actually snowing right now down here. Mostly just some flurries but it's starting to turn some of the grassy areas kind of whitish colored. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film Good Morning \\Steve// You must remember, “cold” is a relative term and it depends where you’re standing when you used it. Here is Pa for instance, on this icy-cold morning at 32 degrees some would say that’s cold! Bill would say “its another beautiful day in Northern Eastern Pa. Bill thinks anything above 68 degrees is a full-scale heat wave! As for those folks down in the Big Easy? They got great food but lousy weather! Toooooo much heat and with the storms they have; I wouldn’t go anywhere without an armored personal carrier! They are fierce! Stand-by, I have a very tough posting coming up today and need your counseling and advice and that goes for the rest of the “heavy hitters” on here too. You might have to get your notebook out for this one! Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:29 PM Sure does, and what do you mean by " Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D"? First, everyone knows it doesn't get cold in New Orleans in the winter. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Does that mean I have to open my southern-exposure windows for my wintertime > no-tan-lines sunbathing efforts? Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Glass itself is a pretty good blocker of UV rays, so the 90% they are > claiming, is that the film itself, or the amount that does not penetrate the > glass and film? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it > will > > block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes > through > > from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the > thin > > layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to > 99% of > > UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that > I've > > ever tried that! LOL > > > > None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out > during the > > summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself > isn't > > heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal > heat > > loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of > morning > > or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little > cooler > > but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the > ambient > > temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. > > > > To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated > windows > > (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those > windows or > > the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall > > stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the > > plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of > > insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would > work > > during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air > conditioning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > > right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Jennie > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- platinum. > > htm <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- > > platinum. htm> <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- > > film-heat- platinum. htm <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia > > l/window- film-heat- platinum. htm> > > > This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an > plastic > > aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at > night > > with insulation. > > Thanks > > > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM > > > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective > film > > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating > up the > > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage > and > > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like > acrylic > > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron > thick > > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. > It > > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I > doubt > > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes > and > > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like > fiberglass, > > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air > layer, > > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test > this > > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain > glass > > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a > nickel, > > there's none. > > > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in > chemical > > composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much > different > > chemical composition. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on > > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. > > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good > idea? > > > > Jennie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 8:56:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 9:01:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34318	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: A little more information on the used tank I am looking at....

The tank is 3 yrs.old and has been empty for 1 1/2 yrs. Thanks again, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34319	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Breaking The Rules!

Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I should not have �played in the water� in the first place.� But now I have to! � While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)!� This is NOW the case in spades! � Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams.� (No you can�t order them around here!� People think Blue Rams are trucks)!� To that end, I recently contacted an on-line shipper.� Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a reasonable price.� Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the rules------------------Water Parameters----what are theirs! � Ah Ha!� Now we have trouble!� Here are their water parameters:� pH 7.5 GH 200-400 PPM� ( 11-22 DEGREES) KH 50-100 ppm� ( 3-6 DEGREES) Temperature� 78-82 degrees Now here are Bill�s readings:� pH 5.5� GH 1� KH barely readable but I do have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a set of two possible combinations, the first:� Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on them showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are looking for.� The item numbers are for products they sell.� And the second set:� Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer your hardness.� Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simply said �How fast do you want to do all of this�?� And she also said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I said yes.� She said to use the chemicals she stated. Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but in considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish?� It would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out.� It should also be stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish.� What are your thoughts, please? � Bill � � [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34320	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and have them in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unless your current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work and will give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when it doesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming, hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I should not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I have to! While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades! Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them around here! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recently contacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a reasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the rules------------------Water Parameters----what are theirs! Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters: pH 7.5 GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES) KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES) Temperature 78-82 degrees Now here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I do have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a set of two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on them showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are looking for. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set: Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer your hardness. Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simply said "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use the chemicals she stated. Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but in considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are your thoughts, please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:10:42 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34321	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Buying a used tank, what to look for....

Jim, I'm sending my reply to your off-list email here too. I replied to you directly but often, spam filters grab so many emails nowadays but I'm guessing you get the groups messages. Yes, silicone can lose it's sealing abilities... not sure if dry rot would be the right term.. maybe "become brittle"... but it's not likely that it would happen on a 3 year old tank. If it was 10 or 15 years old and sitting in an uninsulated garage or attic, maybe, but I'm sure tanks sit around in warehouses sometimes for a couple of years before being sold with no problems. The silicone caulking used around outside windows is supposed to last 20-30 years, although it will start to become brittle in less time than that but it's exposed to drastic weather and UV rays, heat and cold, etc. I'm sure the tank's silicone is fine. The Marineland HOT Magnum filters should be fine to use without a UGF filter. The only difference is the intake tubes would have to be fitted with strainers (available from DrsFosterSmith.com for $2.99 and probably from Marineland.com as well). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: notify@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notify@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:42 AM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Used tank questions... Lenny, Sorry to "bug" you, but, I have to make a decision on this deal in a short timeframe.. I posted a couple of questions about buying a used tank on the board, I would really like your opinion on buying a used tank, to re-cap... It is a 55 gal. 3 yr. old tank that has been empty for 1 1/2 yrs. My question on that is should I be worried about the silicone? Could it dry rot? In the deal is (2) HOT Magnum filters, can they be used without an under gravel filter? Other than that it is a great deal.. I will be getting back with him this afternoon and hopefully getting it this weekend.. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Buying a used tank, what to look for.... I found a guy that has a 55 gal. with a black wooden stand and (2) HOT magnum filters (and some other stuff) for sale for $150. Now, should I worry about the silicone joints in the tank? Do they dry out? Can the magnum filters be used without an undergravel filter? Any other things to look for? Thanks, Jim _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:14:47 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34322	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

I would look to another source for Blue Rams or wait until I saw them available, maintained in parameters closer to yours. Your playing with chemistry that you don't fully understand and/or that may not work as planned with your water. You may try it, and I hope you're successful if you are intent on it, but to do so is to put the fish at risk. I did recommend your being able to boost and maintain your present parameters, including your pH, up to no more that pH 6.6 -- and via the slower but more stabile ("permanent" -- except with PWC's); Cuttle Bone will also work towards this end, as an intermediate of somewhat faster results, both being stabile in supporting these parameters. I did not -- and would not recommend the baking soda which you used, which you encountered your problems with -- and advised against it early on. I would still recommend what I've said here if necessary to initially help adjust fish to your water, even though you've chosen not to change the parameters at all -- which would be the safest course to follow in the long run. I would not recommend trying to adjust fish found in such high values to your negligable KH -- unless you had a token amount (1/2 the volume of your tank) of this much harder water to place the fish in and adjust from over several days. It would be different if the parameters were the other way around, with your having the harder water, even though it would still require adjusting time. In your present situation, the osmotic pressure difference (between your GH 1 and their GH 200 - 400 TDS), your osmotic pressure being on the low side of the scale in your case, is even of more concern than is the pH difference, and we know just that's considerable. Seachem's products are generally most useful and the company is to be respected, as are Kent's -- but any products intended for changing the water chemistry has their limits -- and these limits are stretched the further one's water deviates from what they are trying to do, only increasing the potential dangers of using them. Unless your parameters are at least somewhat closer (i.e., has more buffering capacity, AND at least a nominal level of GH) to what these products are intending to change and maintain your water at, I would not recommend them -- even though I'm sure they are designed to work, at least within limits. These buffers are designed with carbonates as their active ingredients, which do not address this hugh difference in TDS. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I should not have "played in the water" in the first place.  But now I have to! >   > While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)!  This is NOW the case in spades! >   > Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams.  (No you can't order them around here!  People think Blue Rams are trucks)!  To that end, I recently contacted an on-line shipper.  Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a reasonable price.  Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the rules------------------Water Parameters----what are theirs! >   > Ah Ha!  Now we have trouble!  Here are their water parameters:  > pH 7.5 > GH 200-400 PPM  ( 11-22 DEGREES) > KH 50-100 ppm  ( 3-6 DEGREES) > Temperature  78-82 degrees > Now here are Bill's readings:  pH 5.5  GH 1  KH barely readable but I do have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. > Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a set of two possible combinations, the first:  Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on them showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are looking for.  The item numbers are for products they sell.  And the second set:  Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer your hardness.  > Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simply said "How fast do you want to do all of this"?  And she also said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I said yes.  She said to use the chemicals she stated. > Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but in considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish?  It would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out.  It should also be stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish.  What are your thoughts, please? >   > Bill >   >   > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34323	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Yes Lenny, � All of that may be true to some extent.� But let's look at a few facts, as they are presented. First, there is no supplier even remotely close to me that has these fish, much less the water parameters I need, why?� Its well water!� They can�t match this type of pH and even if they could, they sure can�t match my water hardness, none! � Next, would they say or go through all of this with a potential new customer with whom they want to sell even more goods too?� I think not.� A failure would most certainly guarantee the lose of a good customer.� What business today can afford that? � Finally, put it in writing?� Give me a brake here!� That�s how the got Nixon and the Watergate Tapes I believe.� Nobody puts anything in writing these days BUT they do guarantee the fish to live delivery, provided their acclamation instructions are carried out properly.� Hint?� Part of their acclamation instructions cover water parameters and that is in writing.. � doing the best I can with what I�ve got! � Bill � --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:10 AM Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and have them in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unless your current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work and will give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when it doesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming, hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I should not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I have to! While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades! Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them around here! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recently contacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a reasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters: pH 7.5 GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES) KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES) Temperature 78-82 degrees Now here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I do have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a set of two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on them showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are looking for. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set: Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer your hardness. Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simply said "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use the chemicals she stated. Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but in considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are your thoughts, please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:10:42 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34324	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Buying a used tank, what to look for....

What you do is set it on a level surface adn fill it up with water to see if it leaks - if possible before you buy it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Buying a used tank, what to look for.... I found a guy that has a 55 gal. with a black wooden stand and (2) HOT magnum filters (and some other stuff) for sale for $150. Now, should I worry about the silicone joints in the tank? Do they dry out? Can the magnum filters be used without an undergravel filter? Any other things to look for? Thanks, Jim ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34325	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Sorry Bill, upon re-reading my post in email form (after sending it) I immediately spotted the blatent ommission of two key words in my previous message in context with -- "via the slower but more stable ("permanent" -- except with PWC's) CRUSHED CORAL;" Later, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > I would look to another source for Blue Rams or wait until I saw them > available, maintained in parameters closer to yours. Your playing > with chemistry that you don't fully understand and/or that may not > work as planned with your water. You may try it, and I hope you're > successful if you are intent on it, but to do so is to put the fish > at risk. > > I did recommend your being able to boost and maintain your present > parameters, including your pH, up to no more that pH 6.6 -- and via > the slower but more stable ("permanent" -- except with PWC's); > Cuttle Bone will also work towards this end, as an intermediate of > somewhat faster results, both being stabile in supporting these > parameters. I did not -- and would not recommend the baking soda > which you used, which you encountered your problems with -- and > advised against it early on. I would still recommend what I've said > here if necessary to initially help adjust fish to your water, even > though you've chosen not to change the parameters at all -- which > would be the safest course to follow in the long run. I would not > recommend trying to adjust fish found in such high values to your > negligable KH -- unless you had a token amount (1/2 the volume of > your tank) of this much harder water to place the fish in and adjust > from over several days. It would be different if the parameters were > the other way around, with your having the harder water, even though > it would still require adjusting time. In your present situation, > the osmotic pressure difference (between your GH 1 and their GH 200 - > 400 TDS), your osmotic pressure being on the low side of the scale in > your case, is even of more concern than is the pH difference, and we > know just that's considerable. > > Seachem's products are generally most useful and the company is to be > respected, as are Kent's -- but any products intended for changing > the water chemistry has their limits -- and these limits are > stretched the further one's water deviates from what they are trying > to do, only increasing the potential dangers of using them. Unless > your parameters are at least somewhat closer (i.e., has more > buffering capacity, AND at least a nominal level of GH) to what these > products are intending to change and maintain your water at, I would > not recommend them -- even though I'm sure they are designed to work, > at least within limits. These buffers are designed with carbonates > as their active ingredients, which do not address this hugh > difference in TDS. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately > successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did > not buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to > just lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow > to all that I should not have "played in the water" in the first > place.  But now I have to! > >   > > While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I > would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water > parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)!  This is NOW the > case in spades! > >   > > Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams.  (No you can't order > them around here!  People think Blue Rams are trucks)!  To that end, > I recently contacted an on-line shipper.  Yes they had the Blue Rams > and at a reasonable price.  Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats > the deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the > rules------------------Water Parameters----what are theirs! > >   > > Ah Ha!  Now we have trouble!  Here are their water parameters:  > > pH 7.5 > > GH 200-400 PPM  ( 11-22 DEGREES) > > KH 50-100 ppm  ( 3-6 DEGREES) > > Temperature  78-82 degrees > > Now here are Bill's readings:  pH 5.5  GH 1  KH barely readable but > I do have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. > > Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she > recommends a set of two possible combinations, the first:  Acid > buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # > 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction > with each other. There are charts on them showing you how long to use > it and amounts for the target pH you are looking for.  The item > numbers are for products they sell.  And the second set:  Kent > Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other > products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and > buffer your hardness.  > > Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, > she simply said "How fast do you want to do all of this"?  And she > also said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the > new tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I > said yes.  She said to use the chemicals she stated. > > Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same > destination but in considering all, which is the best and safest for > the fish?  It would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out.  It > should also be stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and > after the required readings are reached, then the use of One and Only > to cycle and prepare for the fish.  What are your thoughts, please? > >   > > Bill > >   > >   > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34326	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Check on Aquabid.com. Post messages in their forums. I am sure that someone, somewhere is breeding/raising the fish you seek in similar water parameters to your source water so that you do not have to go through such drastic measures just to acclimate the new fish... especially since these fish do best in acidic soft water conditions. Heck, someone with that kind of water, with an unlimited supply from a well similar to yours, would be most likely to decide to start breeding acidic soft water fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Yes Lenny, All of that may be true to some extent. But let's look at a few facts, as they are presented. First, there is no supplier even remotely close to me that has these fish, much less the water parameters I need, why? Its well water! They can't match this type of pH and even if they could, they sure can't match my water hardness, none! Next, would they say or go through all of this with a potential new customer with whom they want to sell even more goods too? I think not. A failure would most certainly guarantee the lose of a good customer. What business today can afford that? Finally, put it in writing? Give me a brake here! That's how the got Nixon and the Watergate Tapes I believe. Nobody puts anything in writing these days BUT they do guarantee the fish to live delivery, provided their acclamation instructions are carried out properly. Hint? Part of their acclamation instructions cover water parameters and that is in writing.. doing the best I can with what I've got! Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:10 AM Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and have them in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unless your current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work and will give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when it doesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming, hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I should not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I have to! While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades! Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them around here! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recently contacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a reasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters: pH 7.5 GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES) KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES) Temperature 78-82 degrees Now here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I do have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a set of two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on them showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are looking for. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set: Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer your hardness. Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simply said "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use the chemicals she stated. Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but in considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are your thoughts, please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:51:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34327	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Yep, I didn't get to bed until after 2AM, so was able to see that they were handling it ok for several hours. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Hopefully all is well but the next time you need to start a new medication, do it when you'll be home (or awake) for as long as possible after starting the treatment... just so you can keep an eye on the fish and be prepared to do a PWC if the fish start to show signs of distress. I see you started the Fungus Clear at 9:45PM so hopefully you're a night owl and will be up to keep an eye on them for a while. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still considered within acceptable limits. The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can take more but not by a whole lot. The general question of whether you can add medications while there is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a number of > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > appears now to be time to medicate. > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me (unless > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 gallons > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get a > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of salt > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 1/2 > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in their > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon (not 3 > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this measure > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their limits > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids seeming to > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having the > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in the > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what your > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act adversely > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > fungus. > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting your > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is the > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done gradually > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will tolerate > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > Elodea and Water Clover. > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several days > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle suddenly > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your nitrite > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate was > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A discrepency > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > erroneous readings of test results). > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest you > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. Those > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan II, > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank Buddies -- > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite Green > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > infections. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and generally > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > were doing. > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at all > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems a > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for the > bigger > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > little (or > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create enough > surface > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and live > plants are > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels down. > Cooler > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > start to turn > > around soon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15ppm > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a PWC > yesterday) > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so I > can see > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll look > into an > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then activated > carbon will > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also does > not remove > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > carbon filter. > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home and > I would > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > simply isn't > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > you'll be > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > Betta tank was > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G or > 2G of water. > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe to > worry about > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > simplicity... > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > weekly basis. > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in the > world, I > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > goldfish tank. > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752208> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2752208> or > a $5.00 - > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754035> > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2754035> > would last > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > Dechlorinator will > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > changing 25% > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 years ... > probably much > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > Britta. The 16 > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more water > but it's > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting the > TopFin 8 oz. > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online from > whomever I'm > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more for > shipping > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water without > using the > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in the > future. Test > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > break the > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes through > a Brita > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > search down > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero reading > is right > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > don't add > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap water > and > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra aeration > helps Raven > > any. > > > > Santa Baby! > > Put that big tank under my tree > > for me! > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product (which > one do you > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? If > you didn't > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the 0.5ppm > after > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > water is > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > chlorine and > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, especially > when cycling > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > tank, it will > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by the > nitrifying > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but also > in other > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > itself. The > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory balance > with the > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > cycling issues, > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > testing and > > frequent PWC's. > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs lots > of O2 and if > > they aren't getting enough, they will become sluggish/lethargic. > This can be > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water level > a little.. > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes more > surface > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase ingasing/outgasing > at the > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > you'll have to > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced > above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > doing a lot of > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > hiding under the > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > adding the salt. > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants to > sit on the > > bottom most of the time. > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > disappearing. > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: not > > quite 20ppm > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still about > 25T in a > > 20G tank > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday and > it's > > definitely a 20G. > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > male, I guess > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > gallon) are used > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... and > it's > > working. > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 teaspoons > per gallon > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > bring the > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > typing my > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > doing this.. > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > make sure your > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons to > every five > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those 5G > buckets for > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G bucket, > fill it to > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) and > then slowly > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > same mark to > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > mark is you > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll spill a > lot when > > trying to dump it. > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x W" x > H" and > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. For > your > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > square/rectangular > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" x W" > x H" = > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect on the > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > probably just > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy was > more > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. Sometimes > we have to > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills off > all of the > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I always > hate saying > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once in a > while, we > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish have a > HUGE will > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > conditions > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that doesn't > give proper > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh for > you... and > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's difficult > to sex > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > tell but males > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers and > the leading > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the first > time and > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps just > on the > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means you > have a > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to rename > him to > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish to > have found > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK with > them. LOL > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so you'll > know what to > > look for. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also see the > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be 1.0 > again > > tomorrow > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting in. > I just > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it didn't > feel like > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). Today > when I did > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler and > it was > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > gallons as I > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn my > dd told me > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure yesterday > I removed > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > Tonight I removed > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The fish > seem to be > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just not > add any salt > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a 20 > gallon tank. > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > salt. It's > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the goldfish. > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 10 > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > pH:7.4; > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, the > pH usually > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than 7.6 > and > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > (7.4) so I'm > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a combination > pack GH and > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > four basics > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > since your pH > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your water. > As your > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then the > GH and KH > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH after > a week, > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a capital > H since it > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > capitalized for > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > some test > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH instead > of CH is > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of hardness > and Karbonat > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus KH. > A German > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 but > 18 for > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as 180ppm, > that would > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where do > I find test > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro Detroit > area of > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the tail > and dorsal > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually disappearing. > Raven > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting dark > spots, > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still has > a good > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 Nitrate: > 20 > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement water > with 1T per > > G salt) > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made mental > note to > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > obvious and the > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious white > areas, but > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as always. > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in there > somewhere > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > bubbles that > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme bug- > eye look, > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic grasses > with > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll just > take a pair > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not that > I've ever > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > plastic plants, > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > up.. 7-10 days > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad it > was. Same > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to take a > while for > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 Tablespoons > which would > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one more > dose to > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a total of > 90 > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should start > to have a > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us know > which day > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the salt > > treatment.. right? > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > your tank. > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let the > ammonia get > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the ammonia in > check. > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with the > same level > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) before > adding the > > water to your tank. > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > article on > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > bucket. Test > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your dechlor. > Test it > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The numbers > will likely > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water baseline. > Agitation > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > This baseline > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in > your tap > > water. > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my groups. I > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an email > and then I > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I get > the Daily > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone replies > to a Daily > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. I've > never seen > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > automatically > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to Daily > Digests. > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd take a > few seconds > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for the > thread they > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > show in reply > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > upgrades to the > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > replies > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the messages in > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. looking > for other > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > chronological order.. > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any longer > threads. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the whitish > areas > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble eyes. > This may be a > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > with that, > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured than > find her > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages in > a day, > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the digest > version go > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the new > messages. > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting the > digest > > version. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not because > the fish > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the white > and the > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank looking > exhausted > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was using > Rid-Ich+. > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking at > all those > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided to > try going > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an attendant > for help. I > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give customers > for rodent > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > shavings, that > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet much > sooner, > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does keeping > them in > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I had > time for. > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon and > the only > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium sealant. > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) before > going to > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > another 2T > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > replacement > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a total > of 6T in > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning and > 20T tomorrow > > night. > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > Carol Burnett) > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the other > two (Lucille > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her (?) > dorsal fin > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > at .25ppm. I'll test > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though it > makes me > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding with > adding > > anything else to your tank. > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > higher nitrite > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > either the > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > nitrite level is > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > protect the fish > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but you > need some to > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did you > ever add > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go a > long way... > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have an up > and > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the future, > it would > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old fish > were gone or > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from getting > stagnant. > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > weren't any > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > worse. You've > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > anyhow. > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > malachite > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > mentioned it. > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. Four > days isn't > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > effect. > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it says to > dose the > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a nine > day > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or weaker > or what. > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > options... > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite > green: > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > parasites. > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a stock > solution > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the stock > solution > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that whatever > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many mgs > of > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock solution > uses 20 > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 mg > malachite per > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > Higher dose only > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with 1 > ml stock > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every other > day for a > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > every three > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml of > stock > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should only > be used with > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly to > a wound, > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the fish's > eyes and > > gills. > > (END SNIP) > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a series of > 25% PWC's > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the medicinally > treated > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to remove > the rest. > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > will be the > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > this fresh > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > their > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum antibiotic.. > were you > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > interdiction or > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much help > with your > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > treatment. > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the salt > but DO NOT > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > treatment unless > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says it's > OK. It's > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions from > a very > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or pet > store > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > fish a 24 > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt treatment... > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > gallon), which is > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off with a > dose of 1 > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute this > salt in a > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into the > tank, > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already added > 6 > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it up to > the > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours later, > add another > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. 12 > hours > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons per > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent putting > your > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your fish > to adjust > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), if > and/or when > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you would > then add 15 > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you add > it back > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially one > after the > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the salt a > chance to > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > happening to the > > fish. > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it better > and it's also > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies like > I did with > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include my > previous > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go to > the webpage > > and read those posts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever this > is under > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a few > new white > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it seems > to have > > started on the body. > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned that > I can't get > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got canning > salt, so I > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a 30 G > tank, > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > times 12 hours > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > therapeutic > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I did > see on the > > company website that they can be used together). The problem is > that they > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." Is > that > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the tank > is, yet? > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. I'll > retest > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > Nitrate: >10 & > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the Goldfish > are in now. > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and were > all gone by > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at least > another 6 > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job change > and fewer > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter was > run for a > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was turned > off and my > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > components on eBay, > > but never got around to it. > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > arrived in a > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > back problems > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and they > needed a new > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for about > a year in > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > don't know > > when or how that one died. > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour and > then > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. I > believe the > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no cleaning > was done. > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish arrived. > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > sponge and > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in it. I > picked up a > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed that > it didn't > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > biofilter, but > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully there's > enough > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that came > with the > > goldfish. > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM does > that to me > > sometimes, lol. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 1:17:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34328	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Did you check your "other mail"?  Sent one on Tue 12/9/2008 2:08 PM Never heard further???????????????????????????????????????????   Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:50 AM Sorry Bill, upon re-reading my post in email form (after sending it) I immediately spotted the blatent ommission of two key words in my previous message in context with -- "via the slower but more stable ("permanent" -- except with PWC's) CRUSHED CORAL;" Later, Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > I would look to another source for Blue Rams or wait until I saw them > available, maintained in parameters closer to yours. Your playing > with chemistry that you don't fully understand and/or that may not > work as planned with your water. You may try it, and I hope you're > successful if you are intent on it, but to do so is to put the fish > at risk. > > I did recommend your being able to boost and maintain your present > parameters, including your pH, up to no more that pH 6.6 -- and via > the slower but more stable ("permanent" -- except with PWC's); > Cuttle Bone will also work towards this end, as an intermediate of > somewhat faster results, both being stabile in supporting these > parameters. I did not -- and would not recommend the baking soda > which you used, which you encountered your problems with -- and > advised against it early on. I would still recommend what I've said > here if necessary to initially help adjust fish to your water, even > though you've chosen not to change the parameters at all -- which > would be the safest course to follow in the long run. I would not > recommend trying to adjust fish found in such high values to your > negligable KH -- unless you had a token amount (1/2 the volume of > your tank) of this much harder water to place the fish in and adjust > from over several days. It would be different if the parameters were > the other way around, with your having the harder water, even though > it would still require adjusting time. In your present situation, > the osmotic pressure difference (between your GH 1 and their GH 200 - > 400 TDS), your osmotic pressure being on the low side of the scale in > your case, is even of more concern than is the pH difference, and we > know just that's considerable. > > Seachem's products are generally most useful and the company is to be > respected, as are Kent's -- but any products intended for changing > the water chemistry has their limits -- and these limits are > stretched the further one's water deviates from what they are trying > to do, only increasing the potential dangers of using them. Unless > your parameters are at least somewhat closer (i.e., has more > buffering capacity, AND at least a nominal level of GH) to what these > products are intending to change and maintain your water at, I would > not recommend them -- even though I'm sure they are designed to work, > at least within limits. These buffers are designed with carbonates > as their active ingredients, which do not address this hugh > difference in TDS. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ > wrote: > > > > Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately > successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did > not buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to > just lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow > to all that I should not have "played in the water" in the first > place.  But now I have to! > >   > > While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I > would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water > parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)!  This is NOW the > case in spades! > >   > > Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams.  (No you can't order > them around here!  People think Blue Rams are trucks)!  To that end, > I recently contacted an on-line shipper.  Yes they had the Blue Rams > and at a reasonable price.  Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats > the deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the > rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! > >   > > Ah Ha!  Now we have trouble!  Here are their water parameters:  > > pH 7.5 > > GH 200-400 PPM  ( 11-22 DEGREES) > > KH 50-100 ppm  ( 3-6 DEGREES) > > Temperature  78-82 degrees > > Now here are Bill's readings:  pH 5.5  GH 1  KH barely readable but > I do have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. > > Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she > recommends a set of two possible combinations, the first:  Acid > buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # > 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction > with each other. There are charts on them showing you how long to use > it and amounts for the target pH you are looking for.  The item > numbers are for products they sell.  And the second set:  Kent > Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other > products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and > buffer your hardness.  > > Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, > she simply said "How fast do you want to do all of this"?  And she > also said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the > new tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I > said yes.  She said to use the chemicals she stated. > > Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same > destination but in considering all, which is the best and safest for > the fish?  It would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out.  It > should also be stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and > after the required readings are reached, then the use of One and Only > to cycle and prepare for the fish.  What are your thoughts, please? > >   > > Bill > >   > >   > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34329	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Now your cooking buddy!   That's the one place I haven't looked for or WITH my water parameters.  You may have something there.  I should post accordingly.   Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:51 AM Check on Aquabid.com. Post messages in their forums. I am sure that someone, somewhere is breeding/raising the fish you seek in similar water parameters to your source water so that you do not have to go through such drastic measures just to acclimate the new fish... especially since these fish do best in acidic soft water conditions. Heck, someone with that kind of water, with an unlimited supply from a well similar to yours, would be most likely to decide to start breeding acidic soft water fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Yes Lenny, All of that may be true to some extent. But let's look at a few facts, as they are presented. First, there is no supplier even remotely close to me that has these fish, much less the water parameters I need, why? Its well water! They can't match this type of pH and even if they could, they sure can't match my water hardness, none! Next, would they say or go through all of this with a potential new customer with whom they want to sell even more goods too? I think not. A failure would most certainly guarantee the lose of a good customer. What business today can afford that? Finally, put it in writing? Give me a brake here! That's how the got Nixon and the Watergate Tapes I believe. Nobody puts anything in writing these days BUT they do guarantee the fish to live delivery, provided their acclamation instructions are carried out properly. Hint? Part of their acclamation instructions cover water parameters and that is in writing.. doing the best I can with what I've got! Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:10 AM Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and have them in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unless your current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work and will give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when it doesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming, hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I should not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I have to! While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades! Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them around here! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recently contacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a reasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters: pH 7.5 GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES) KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES) Temperature 78-82 degrees Now here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I do have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a set of two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on them showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are looking for. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set: Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer your hardness. Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simply said "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use the chemicals she stated. Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but in considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are your thoughts, please? Bill _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:51:11 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34330	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film)

I'm trying to find the empathy, up here in Michigan, for people who are "cold" on the Gulf coast. It's been in the teens up here at night. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film) I told y'all we had a blizzard coming! It's actually snowing right now down here. Mostly just some flurries but it's starting to turn some of the grassy areas kind of whitish colored. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film Good Morning \\Steve// You must remember, "cold" is a relative term and it depends where you're standing when you used it. Here is Pa for instance, on this icy-cold morning at 32 degrees some would say that's cold! Bill would say "its another beautiful day in Northern Eastern Pa. Bill thinks anything above 68 degrees is a full-scale heat wave! As for those folks down in the Big Easy? They got great food but lousy weather! Toooooo much heat and with the storms they have; I wouldn't go anywhere without an armored personal carrier! They are fierce! Stand-by, I have a very tough posting coming up today and need your counseling and advice and that goes for the rest of the "heavy hitters" on here too. You might have to get your notebook out for this one! Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:29 PM Sure does, and what do you mean by " Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D"? First, everyone knows it doesn't get cold in New Orleans in the winter. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Does that mean I have to open my southern-exposure windows for my wintertime > no-tan-lines sunbathing efforts? Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Glass itself is a pretty good blocker of UV rays, so the 90% they are > claiming, is that the film itself, or the amount that does not penetrate the > glass and film? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it > will > > block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes > through > > from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the > thin > > layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to > 99% of > > UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that > I've > > ever tried that! LOL > > > > None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out > during the > > summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself > isn't > > heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal > heat > > loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of > morning > > or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little > cooler > > but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the > ambient > > temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. > > > > To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated > windows > > (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those > windows or > > the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall > > stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the > > plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of > > insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would > work > > during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air > conditioning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > > right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Jennie > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- platinum. > > htm <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- > > platinum. htm> <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- > > film-heat- platinum. htm <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia > > l/window- film-heat- platinum. htm> > > > This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an > plastic > > aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at > night > > with insulation. > > Thanks > > > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM > > > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective > film > > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating > up the > > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage > and > > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like > acrylic > > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron > thick > > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. > It > > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I > doubt > > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes > and > > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like > fiberglass, > > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air > layer, > > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test > this > > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain > glass > > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a > nickel, > > there's none. > > > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in > chemical > > composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much > different > > chemical composition. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on > > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. > > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good > idea? > > > > Jennie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 8:56:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 9:01:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34331	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Bill, The only message I find on 12/9 close to that time was at 1:38PM (Subject -- "Power Filters -- again!"). The only messages I've received from you in any form around that time on 12/10 was -- at 1:31PM (Subject -- "Question for our moderators"), then at 2:41PM (Subject -- "Air Pump")-- with nothing in between. I double and triple checked all over in New Mail, Old Mail and Deleted Mail for any "other mail," but haven't seen anything. Looks like it was never received at this end. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Did you check your "other mail"?  Sent one on Tue 12/9/2008 2:08 PM > Never heard further??????????????????????????????????????????? >   > Bill > --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breaking The Rules! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:50 AM > > > > > > > Sorry Bill, upon re-reading my post in email form (after sending it) > I immediately spotted the blatent ommission of two key words in my > previous message in context with -- "via the slower but more stable > ("permanent" -- except with PWC's) CRUSHED CORAL;" > > Later, Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > I would look to another source for Blue Rams or wait until I saw > them > > available, maintained in parameters closer to yours. Your playing > > with chemistry that you don't fully understand and/or that may not > > work as planned with your water. You may try it, and I hope you're > > successful if you are intent on it, but to do so is to put the fish > > at risk. > > > > I did recommend your being able to boost and maintain your present > > parameters, including your pH, up to no more that pH 6.6 -- and via > > the slower but more stable ("permanent" -- except with PWC's); > > Cuttle Bone will also work towards this end, as an intermediate of > > somewhat faster results, both being stabile in supporting these > > parameters. I did not -- and would not recommend the baking soda > > which you used, which you encountered your problems with -- and > > advised against it early on. I would still recommend what I've > said > > here if necessary to initially help adjust fish to your water, even > > though you've chosen not to change the parameters at all -- which > > would be the safest course to follow in the long run. I would not > > recommend trying to adjust fish found in such high values to your > > negligable KH -- unless you had a token amount (1/2 the volume of > > your tank) of this much harder water to place the fish in and > adjust > > from over several days. It would be different if the parameters > were > > the other way around, with your having the harder water, even > though > > it would still require adjusting time. In your present situation, > > the osmotic pressure difference (between your GH 1 and their GH > 200 - > > 400 TDS), your osmotic pressure being on the low side of the scale > in > > your case, is even of more concern than is the pH difference, and > we > > know just that's considerable. > > > > Seachem's products are generally most useful and the company is to > be > > respected, as are Kent's -- but any products intended for changing > > the water chemistry has their limits -- and these limits are > > stretched the further one's water deviates from what they are > trying > > to do, only increasing the potential dangers of using them. Unless > > your parameters are at least somewhat closer (i.e., has more > > buffering capacity, AND at least a nominal level of GH) to what > these > > products are intending to change and maintain your water at, I > would > > not recommend them -- even though I'm sure they are designed to > work, > > at least within limits. These buffers are designed with carbonates > > as their active ingredients, which do not address this hugh > > difference in TDS. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ > wrote: > > > > > > Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was > moderately > > successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did > > not buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to > > just lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow > > to all that I should not have "played in the water" in the first > > place.  But now I have to! > > >   > > > While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that > I > > would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water > > parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)!  This is NOW the > > case in spades! > > >   > > > Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams.  (No you can't order > > them around here!  People think Blue Rams are trucks)!  To that > end, > > I recently contacted an on-line shipper.  Yes they had the Blue > Rams > > and at a reasonable price.  Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory > cats > > the deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered > the > > rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! > > >   > > > Ah Ha!  Now we have trouble!  Here are their water parameters:  > > > pH 7.5 > > > GH 200-400 PPM  ( 11-22 DEGREES) > > > KH 50-100 ppm  ( 3-6 DEGREES) > > > Temperature  78-82 degrees > > > Now here are Bill's readings:  pH 5.5  GH 1  KH barely readable > but > > I do have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. > > > Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she > > recommends a set of two possible combinations, the first:  Acid > > buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item > # > > 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction > > with each other. There are charts on them showing you how long to > use > > it and amounts for the target pH you are looking for.  The item > > numbers are for products they sell.  And the second set:  Kent > > Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other > > products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and > > buffer your hardness.  > > > Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, > > she simply said "How fast do you want to do all of this"?  And she > > also said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the > > new tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I > > said yes.  She said to use the chemicals she stated. > > > Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same > > destination but in considering all, which is the best and safest > for > > the fish?  It would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out.  It > > should also be stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and > > after the required readings are reached, then the use of One and > Only > > to cycle and prepare for the fish.  What are your thoughts, please? > > >   > > > Bill > > >   > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34332	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!for Ray

10-Roger ------------------I will re-send.  I knew something was wrong........ I asked ya too many questions on the bottom of it for you not to respond!   Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 12:32 PM Bill, The only message I find on 12/9 close to that time was at 1:38PM (Subject -- "Power Filters -- again!"). The only messages I've received from you in any form around that time on 12/10 was -- at 1:31PM (Subject -- "Question for our moderators") , then at 2:41PM (Subject -- "Air Pump")-- with nothing in between. I double and triple checked all over in New Mail, Old Mail and Deleted Mail for any "other mail," but haven't seen anything. Looks like it was never received at this end. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ ...> wrote: > > Did you check your "other mail"?  Sent one on Tue 12/9/2008 2:08 PM > Never heard further????? ????????? ????????? ????????? ????????? ?? >   > Bill > --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breaking The Rules! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:50 AM > > > > > > > Sorry Bill, upon re-reading my post in email form (after sending it) > I immediately spotted the blatent ommission of two key words in my > previous message in context with -- "via the slower but more stable > ("permanent" -- except with PWC's) CRUSHED CORAL;" > > Later, Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > I would look to another source for Blue Rams or wait until I saw > them > > available, maintained in parameters closer to yours. Your playing > > with chemistry that you don't fully understand and/or that may not > > work as planned with your water. You may try it, and I hope you're > > successful if you are intent on it, but to do so is to put the fish > > at risk. > > > > I did recommend your being able to boost and maintain your present > > parameters, including your pH, up to no more that pH 6.6 -- and via > > the slower but more stable ("permanent" -- except with PWC's); > > Cuttle Bone will also work towards this end, as an intermediate of > > somewhat faster results, both being stabile in supporting these > > parameters. I did not -- and would not recommend the baking soda > > which you used, which you encountered your problems with -- and > > advised against it early on. I would still recommend what I've > said > > here if necessary to initially help adjust fish to your water, even > > though you've chosen not to change the parameters at all -- which > > would be the safest course to follow in the long run. I would not > > recommend trying to adjust fish found in such high values to your > > negligable KH -- unless you had a token amount (1/2 the volume of > > your tank) of this much harder water to place the fish in and > adjust > > from over several days. It would be different if the parameters > were > > the other way around, with your having the harder water, even > though > > it would still require adjusting time. In your present situation, > > the osmotic pressure difference (between your GH 1 and their GH > 200 - > > 400 TDS), your osmotic pressure being on the low side of the scale > in > > your case, is even of more concern than is the pH difference, and > we > > know just that's considerable. > > > > Seachem's products are generally most useful and the company is to > be > > respected, as are Kent's -- but any products intended for changing > > the water chemistry has their limits -- and these limits are > > stretched the further one's water deviates from what they are > trying > > to do, only increasing the potential dangers of using them. Unless > > your parameters are at least somewhat closer (i.e., has more > > buffering capacity, AND at least a nominal level of GH) to what > these > > products are intending to change and maintain your water at, I > would > > not recommend them -- even though I'm sure they are designed to > work, > > at least within limits. These buffers are designed with carbonates > > as their active ingredients, which do not address this hugh > > difference in TDS. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, bill1433 <warrenprint@ > wrote: > > > > > > Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was > moderately > > successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did > > not buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to > > just lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow > > to all that I should not have "played in the water" in the first > > place.  But now I have to! > > >   > > > While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that > I > > would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water > > parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)!  This is NOW the > > case in spades! > > >   > > > Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams.  (No you can't order > > them around here!  People think Blue Rams are trucks)!  To that > end, > > I recently contacted an on-line shipper.  Yes they had the Blue > Rams > > and at a reasonable price.  Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory > cats > > the deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered > the > > rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! > > >   > > > Ah Ha!  Now we have trouble!  Here are their water parameters:  > > > pH 7.5 > > > GH 200-400 PPM  ( 11-22 DEGREES) > > > KH 50-100 ppm  ( 3-6 DEGREES) > > > Temperature  78-82 degrees > > > Now here are Bill's readings:  pH 5.5  GH 1  KH barely readable > but > > I do have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. > > > Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she > > recommends a set of two possible combinations, the first:  Acid > > buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item > # > > 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction > > with each other. There are charts on them showing you how long to > use > > it and amounts for the target pH you are looking for.  The item > > numbers are for products they sell.  And the second set:  Kent > > Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other > > products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and > > buffer your hardness.  > > > Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, > > she simply said "How fast do you want to do all of this"?  And she > > also said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the > > new tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I > > said yes.  She said to use the chemicals she stated. > > > Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same > > destination but in considering all, which is the best and safest > for > > the fish?  It would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out.  It > > should also be stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and > > after the required readings are reached, then the use of One and > Only > > to cycle and prepare for the fish.  What are your thoughts, please? > > >   > > > Bill > > >   > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34333	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt levels. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water replaced with 1T of salt. I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the need to question your present salt content and your methods with which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you could clarify this further if this is not the case. I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may be out-dated). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still > considered within acceptable limits. > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can > take more but not by a whole lot. > > The general question of whether you can add medications while there > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get > a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of > salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 > 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon > (not 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > seeming to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having > the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what > your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is > the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate > was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan > II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at > all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems > a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for > the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and > live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a > PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so > I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also > does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home > and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G > or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe > to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in > the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2752208 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2752208> or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2754035 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2754035> > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting > the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online > from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more > for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in > the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap > water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product > (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? > If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the > 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by > the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but > also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs > lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water > level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes > more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants > to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still > about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday > and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... > and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons > to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those > 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) > and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x > W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. > For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" > x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect > on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy > was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills > off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once > in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish > have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh > for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers > and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps > just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means > you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish > to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > (You'll also see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be > 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting > in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it > didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler > and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn > my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The > fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just > not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a > 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, > the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than > 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then > the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH > after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus > KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 > but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where > do > > I find test > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > Detroit > > area of > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the > tail > > and dorsal > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > disappearing. > > Raven > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting > dark > > spots, > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still > has > > a good > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 20 > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > water > > with 1T per > > > G salt) > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made > mental > > note to > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > > obvious and the > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > white > > areas, but > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as > always. > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in > there > > somewhere > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > > bubbles that > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme > bug- > > eye look, > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > grasses > > with > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll > just > > take a pair > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not > that > > I've ever > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > > plastic plants, > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > > up.. 7-10 days > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad > it > > was. Same > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > take a > > while for > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > Tablespoons > > which would > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one > more > > dose to > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > total of > > 90 > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should > start > > to have a > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us > know > > which day > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the > salt > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > > your tank. > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let > the > > ammonia get > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > ammonia in > > check. > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with > the > > same level > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > before > > adding the > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > > article on > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > > bucket. Test > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > dechlor. > > Test it > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > numbers > > will likely > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > baseline. > > Agitation > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > > This baseline > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > in > > your tap > > > water. > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > groups. I > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an > email > > and then I > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I > get > > the Daily > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > replies > > to a Daily > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. > I've > > never seen > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > > automatically > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > Daily > > Digests. > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > take a > > few seconds > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for > the > > thread they > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > > show in reply > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > > upgrades to the > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > > replies > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > messages in > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > looking > > for other > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > chronological order.. > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > longer > > threads. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > whitish > > areas > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > eyes. > > This may be a > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > > with that, > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured > than > > find her > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages > in > > a day, > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the > digest > > version go > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the > new > > messages. > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting > the > > digest > > > version. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > because > > the fish > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > white > > and the > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > looking > > exhausted > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was > using > > Rid-Ich+. > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking > at > > all those > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided > to > > try going > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > attendant > > for help. I > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > customers > > for rodent > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > > shavings, that > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet > much > > sooner, > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > keeping > > them in > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I > had > > time for. > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon > and > > the only > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > sealant. > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) > before > > going to > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > > another 2T > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > > replacement > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a > total > > of 6T in > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning > and > > 20T tomorrow > > > night. > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > > Carol Burnett) > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > other > > two (Lucille > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her > (?) > > dorsal fin > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though > it > > makes me > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > with > > adding > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > > higher nitrite > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > > either the > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > > nitrite level is > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > > protect the fish > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but > you > > need some to > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did > you > > ever add > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go > a > > long way... > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have > an up > > and > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > future, > > it would > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > fish > > were gone or > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > getting > > stagnant. > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > > weren't any > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > > worse. You've > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > > anyhow. > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > > malachite > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > > mentioned it. > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. > Four > > days isn't > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > > effect. > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > says to > > dose the > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a > nine > > day > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > weaker > > or what. > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > options... > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > Malachite > > green: > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > > parasites. > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a > stock > > solution > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the > stock > > solution > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > whatever > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many > mgs > > of > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > solution > > uses 20 > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 > mg > > malachite per > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > > Higher dose only > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with > 1 > > ml stock > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every > other > > day for a > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > > every three > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml > of > > stock > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should > only > > be used with > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly > to > > a wound, > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > fish's > > eyes and > > > gills. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > series of > > 25% PWC's > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > medicinally > > treated > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > remove > > the rest. > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > > will be the > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > > this fresh > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > > their > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > antibiotic.. > > were you > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > > interdiction or > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much > help > > with your > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > > treatment. > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > salt > > but DO NOT > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > treatment unless > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says > it's > > OK. It's > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions > from > > a very > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or > pet > > store > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > > fish a 24 > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > treatment... > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > > gallon), which is > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > with a > > dose of 1 > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute > this > > salt in a > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into > the > > tank, > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already > added > > 6 > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it > up to > > the > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > later, > > add another > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. > 12 > > hours > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > teaspoons per > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > putting > > your > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your > fish > > to adjust > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), > if > > and/or when > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you > would > > then add 15 > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you > add > > it back > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially > one > > after the > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the > salt a > > chance to > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > happening to the > > > fish. > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > better > > and it's also > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies > like > > I did with > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include > my > > previous > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go > to > > the webpage > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever > this > > is under > > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a > few > > new white > > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it > seems > > to have > > > started on the body. > > > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned > that > > I can't get > > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got > canning > > salt, so I > > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a > 30 G > > tank, > > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > > times 12 hours > > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > > therapeutic > > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I > did > > see on the > > > company website that they can be used together). The problem > is > > that they > > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." > Is > > that > > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the > tank > > is, yet? > > > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. > I'll > > retest > > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > > Nitrate: >10 & > > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the > Goldfish > > are in now. > > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and > were > > all gone by > > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at > least > > another 6 > > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job > change > > and fewer > > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter > was > > run for a > > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was > turned > > off and my > > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > > components on eBay, > > > but never got around to it. > > > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > > arrived in a > > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > > back problems > > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and > they > > needed a new > > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for > about > > a year in > > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > > don't know > > > when or how that one died. > > > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour > and > > then > > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. > I > > believe the > > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no > cleaning > > was done. > > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish > arrived. > > > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > > sponge and > > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in > it. I > > picked up a > > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed > that > > it didn't > > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > > biofilter, but > > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully > there's > > enough > > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that > came > > with the > > > goldfish. > > > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM > does > > that to me > > > sometimes, lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><(<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34334	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

If I ever get any babies from my long finned blue ram pair you'll be the first I email Bill, LOL. My pH is 6 and I have very soft water too ;) I have a very happy little couple too, I'm hoping maybe someday in the future they start showing more breeding habits, so far I've only had the male for a couple of weeks and the female a couple weeks longer than that. Definitely male/female though I can tell in the coloring differences and how they act toward each other (follow each other around the tank). I like the male's coloring more of course, so pretty :) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Check on Aquabid.com. Post messages in their forums. I am sure that > someone, somewhere is breeding/raising the fish you seek in similar water > parameters to your source water so that you do not have to go through such > drastic measures just to acclimate the new fish... especially since these > fish do best in acidic soft water conditions. Heck, someone with that kind > of water, with an unlimited supply from a well similar to yours, would be > most likely to decide to start breeding acidic soft water fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > > Yes Lenny, > > All of that may be true to some extent. But let's look at a few facts, as > they are presented. > First, there is no supplier even remotely close to me that has these fish, > much less the water parameters I need, why? Its well water! They can't > match this type of pH and even if they could, they sure can't match my > water > hardness, none! > > Next, would they say or go through all of this with a potential new > customer > with whom they want to sell even more goods too? I think not. A failure > would most certainly guarantee the lose of a good customer. What business > today can afford that? > > Finally, put it in writing? Give me a brake here! That's how the got Nixon > and the Watergate Tapes I believe. Nobody puts anything in writing these > days BUT they do guarantee the fish to live delivery, provided their > acclamation instructions are carried out properly. Hint? Part of their > acclamation instructions cover water parameters and that is in writing.. > > doing the best I can with what I've got! > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:10 AM > > Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and have > them in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. > > I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unless > your current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will > work and > will give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when it > doesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming, > hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > > Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately > successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not > buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower > back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I > should not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I > have to! > > While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would > ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters > where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades! > > Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them around > here! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recently > contacted > an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a reasonable price. > Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with shipping, seemed > quite do-able until I remembered the > rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! > > Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters: > pH 7.5 > GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES) > KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES) > Temperature 78-82 degrees > Now here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I do have > the temperature covered at 80 degrees. > Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends > a set > of two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 > teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons > of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on > them > showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are > looking > for. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set: > Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other > products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and > buffer your > hardness. > Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she > simply > said "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I would > assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then > take them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use the > chemicals she stated. > Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination > but in > considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem, > in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I > would be > doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then > the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are your > thoughts, please? > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:51:11 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34335	From: jett07002	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: window film

Bill has a good idea there. I've used these insulation sheets before my basement was heated. If you think the plain white or pink color is not to your liking, you could put a sheet of the backing pictures they make for aquariums in front of it. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > 1" form board available at Home Depot or Lowe's will work nicely.  4 x 8 sheets are available or use "paneling kits".  They are sometimes, pink or light blue or white.  These are a bundle of the same product cut in 2' x 4' lengths for fitting between faring strips when installing paneling in a room.  Either glue or tape to the sides and back of your tank and believe me, it will be insulated and cheaply. >   > Bill > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 10:00 PM > > > > > > > I've used it as a backing for aquariums before, but never actually used > its adhesive to put it on, just tape. The adhesive is pretty strong, and > once it is stuck, it is stuck, unless you use some pretty nasty > chemicals to get it off. The "insulating" properties come from > reflecting solar radiation back, and not letting a lot of it into your > hose. The film and the adhesive have no insulating properties other than > that. It will not keep the heat in your aquarium. > > FWIW, in my mis-spent youth, I worked at a factory that made the stuff. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of > > jjmiltner > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it > > on the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > > heat. Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I > > was thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a > > good idea? > > > > Jennie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34336	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Hi Amber, � I may just hold you to that because it may take that long to find the �wild fish� I want.� Do you know if yours are tank raised or from the wild? � I knew that finding good stock would not be easy but I never figured on all the �water problems� just to get them here either. � By the way, have you posted any pictures of them yet? � Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 2:39 PM If I ever get any babies from my long finned blue ram pair you'll be the first I email Bill, LOL. My pH is 6 and I have very soft water too ;) I have a very happy little couple too, I'm hoping maybe someday in the future they start showing more breeding habits, so far I've only had the male for a couple of weeks and the female a couple weeks longer than that. Definitely male/female though I can tell in the coloring differences and how they act toward each other (follow each other around the tank). I like the male's coloring more of course, so pretty :) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Check on Aquabid.com. Post messages in their forums. I am sure that > someone, somewhere is breeding/raising the fish you seek in similar water > parameters to your source water so that you do not have to go through such > drastic measures just to acclimate the new fish... especially since these > fish do best in acidic soft water conditions. Heck, someone with that kind > of water, with an unlimited supply from a well similar to yours, would be > most likely to decide to start breeding acidic soft water fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > > Yes Lenny, > > All of that may be true to some extent. But let's look at a few facts, as > they are presented. > First, there is no supplier even remotely close to me that has these fish, > much less the water parameters I need, why? Its well water! They can't > match this type of pH and even if they could, they sure can't match my > water > hardness, none! > > Next, would they say or go through all of this with a potential new > customer > with whom they want to sell even more goods too? I think not. A failure > would most certainly guarantee the lose of a good customer. What business > today can afford that? > > Finally, put it in writing? Give me a brake here! That's how the got Nixon > and the Watergate Tapes I believe. Nobody puts anything in writing these > days BUT they do guarantee the fish to live delivery, provided their > acclamation instructions are carried out properly. Hint? Part of their > acclamation instructions cover water parameters and that is in writing.. > > doing the best I can with what I've got! > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:10 AM > > Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and have > them in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. > > I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unless > your current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will > work and > will give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when it > doesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming, > hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced > above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > > Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately > successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not > buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower > back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I > should not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I > have to! > > While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would > ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters > where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades! > > Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them around > here! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recently > contacted > an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a reasonable price. > Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with shipping, seemed > quite do-able until I remembered the > rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! > > Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters: > pH 7.5 > GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES) > KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES) > Temperature 78-82 degrees > Now here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I do have > the temperature covered at 80 degrees. > Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends > a set > of two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 > teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons > of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on > them > showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are > looking > for. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set: > Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other > products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and > buffer your > hardness. > Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she > simply > said "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I would > assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then > take them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use the > chemicals she stated. > Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination > but in > considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem, > in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I > would be > doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then > the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are your > thoughts, please? > > Bill > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com>> : > Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:51:11 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34337	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Have you checked aquabid? I would think you would be able to get them there. Look up Blueram06 email them. I'm sure they can help you or point you in the right dirrection. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:10:43 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and havethem in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unlessyour current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work andwill give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when itdoesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming,hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of bill1433Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AMTo: AquaticLifeSubject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderatelysuccessful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did notbuffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lowerback down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that Ishould not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I haveto!While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I wouldALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameterswhere I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades!Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them aroundhere! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recentlycontacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at areasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, withshipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered therules------------------Water Parameters----what are theirs!Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters:pH 7.5GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES)KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES)Temperature 78-82 degreesNow here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I dohave the temperature covered at 80 degrees.Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a setof two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallonsof water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on themshowing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are lookingfor. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set:Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two otherproducts that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer yourhardness.Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simplysaid "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I wouldassume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will thentake them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use thechemicals she stated.Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but inconsidering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem,in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would bedoing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, thenthe use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are yourthoughts, please?Bill_____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:10:42 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34338	From: joe t	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

Hi.     Speaking of members lists and such.  I went to my profile to change and delete on of my email addresses.   Wanted to delete my hotmail address which I haven't used in years.  Can not do it...........or maybe I just do not know how. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34339	From: jett07002	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

Pardon my ignorance, Lenny. I am not too big on understanding this computer stuff. But one thing I do know for sure is that I would NEVER give anyone or anything my password for any reason. Why would this grouply thing ask for that? joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > To me, it depends on the type of group. Some groups like to keep their > Members info private but it doesn't really stop email harvesting unless all > of the messages are also blocked from public viewing... meaning people would > have to join the group to even lurk and read info. Since the messages in > this group are not blocked from public viewing, each time a member posts a > message, their Yahoo ID is included and oftentimes, the bulk of or all of > their email address is also listed. For those of us who get the posts via > email, we also get each email address used by the member so an email > harvester could get the email addresses anyhow. > > By moderating new members so they have to now include a "live" comment as to > why they want to join the group, it's much harder for spam-bots to join the > group (but they still try). The bigger concern affecting many Yahoo Groups > is the relatively new Grouply thing, where some members are inadvertently > giving Grouply access to their own Yahoo Group accounts, including giving > Grouply their Yahoo ID's and passwords, so then Grouply is able to harvest > all of the other members to send out their invites. When Grouply was first > formed, people HAD to give Grouply access to their Yahoo accounts and > passwords but now Grouply has backed off from that rule so it's only > optional but still has their default joining page set up where uninformed > people might still give Grouply their Yahoo ID's and passwords. > > There are so many ways for spammers to get people's email addresses, trying > to use Yahoo's limited security features to block email harvesting is mostly > futile so other than making it harder for spam-bots to join the groups, the > blocking of member lists is mostly not needed.... at least not blocking the > member lists from actual members. If there are no spam-bots in a group, > then there is no major concern to stop other members from being able to > locate a fellow member for the purposes of sending a private message, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:35 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question For Our Moderator's? > > Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. > When you go to these group sites there is always a link on the left hand > side of the page titled "Members". > > If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, all members > of the list. > > Question? Where is ours? Ok, why? Because I have been here for a while > now but having the bad memory that I do, and subject to more "senior > moments" than I care to admit to, I can't remember the exact date I joined, > this "Members" list would help. > > Just a thought, > > Bill > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/10/2008 4:01:59 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34340	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Pam,   Thanks for your reply and your right!  I think this guy could help.  The problem is since your mail I have been all over the Internet and nothing!  Lots of posts but no information on him. Did a Goggle search that I'm still working on, looking for phone number, email anything for point of contact------nothing!  All I got so far was from his profile-----------------he's located in New York!  That's it.   Please sign me .............................in work for those Darn Blue Rams!   Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 3:34 PM Have you checked aquabid? I would think you would be able to get them there.. Look up Blueram06 email them. I'm sure they can help you or point you in the right dirrection. Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: GoldLenny@gmail. comDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:10:43 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and havethem in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unlessyour current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work andwill give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when itdoesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming,hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)----- Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] OnBehalf Of bill1433Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AMTo: AquaticLifeSubject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderatelysuccessfu l but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did notbuffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lowerback down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that Ishould not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I haveto!While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I wouldALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameterswhere I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades!Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them aroundhere! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recentlycontacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at areasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, withshipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered therules---- --------- -----Water Parameters-- --what are theirs!Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters:pH 7.5GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES)KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES)Temperature 78-82 degreesNow here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I dohave the temperature covered at 80 degrees.Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a setof two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallonsof water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on themshowing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are lookingfor. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set:Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two otherproducts that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer yourhardness. Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simplysaid "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I wouldassume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will thentake them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use thechemicals she stated.Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but inconsidering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem,in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would bedoing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, thenthe use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are yourthoughts, please?Bill_ ____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:10:42 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34341	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH

Here are more details to answer your questions: - KH no reading means that when I put the first drop of reagent the water color turns from 100% transparent to slightly yellow. As I add more drops the yellow increases. This means that I never have a color change from blue to yellow but I always see yellow. We can probably say that KH reading is zero. - The other 2 10G tanks do not have any additives to control PH, such as crushed coral or others. These tanks don't have any plants or gravel, but only few decorations to keep them clean - The 46G tank is heavily planted without any driftwood. The substrate is very fine gravel (not sand). When I clean the gravel I never stick the siphon into the gravel to avoid uprooting the plants. Actions taken so far: - Ordered a new GH/KH test kit online. I should get it by Dec. 18 - Added 2 TSP of crushed coral to the 46G. That apparently brought the PH to 6.4. - Bought and used a UV sterilizer for 2 days in the 46G. Amazing to see that in only 1 day the water turned completely crystal clear from being sightly cloudy (i.e. a little whitish, not green) I will post new results once I get the GH test. In the meantime I'll answer any other question. I live in Belmont (CA) in case anybody is experiencing the same problem in my area. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Lenny, It would seem to me that with this KH test resulting in "no > reading," that says the same to me as 0 (zero) if there is nothing > during the test that changes any color indicating the presence of any > carbonates. By that, any other tests, even the missing GH test, will > have no bearing on the fact that there is absolutely no buffering > capacity in this water. As a result, unless this tank is being > changed out daily with large PWC's, the propensity for this tank's pH > to suddenly crash is immense. > > While mutually established by all of us as the best route to follow > as the most prudent approach to water chemistry, its usually > recommended not to try to play with it -- except on rare occasions > when it might be absolutely necessary as the only way to safely use > the water. It would seem here, with no buffering capacity, that this > may be one of those rare exceptions when crushed coral, or cuttle > bone as you suggest, would need to be used as a way to establish at > least some carbonates to ensure against such a pH crash. > > Now, I may not be fully understanding the meaning of "no reading" as > the outcome of the test results for the KH reading, as this is not > clarified -- but if there is no reading as a result of this test, > that equates to Zero to me. It would appear the same to me as > getting a "no reading" (CLEAR -- COLORLESS) result from an ammonia > test -- which would tell me the ammonia level is at Zero. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Yes. So now you know that your tank water should have close to a > 7.0 pH > > subject to lowering once the tank's ecology gets a hold of it. You > should > > decide if you want to keep fish that prefer acidic water since the > pH will > > likely come down even further as you've seen. We still do not know > your GH > > readings. It's unlikely but you could have really hard water with > very low > > carbonate hardness (KH). I wouldn't try to do anything with the > chemistry > > in most cases.. and especially if I do not know all of the numbers. > > > > You mentioned early on that you have two other 10G tanks, besides > this 46G > > tank, and the pH is staying around 7.0 in those tanks. Do you have > anything > > different in those or maybe just a lighter bioload of fish/plants? > Since > > you mentioned crushed coral, do you have that in those tanks? I > asked about > > this in one of my earlier replies. > > > > Yes, a sudden pH crash can be harmful, even fatal to fish but if > your tank > > is stabile, then as long as you do your twice weekly PWC's and > filter > > maintenance, you should be fine. > > > > Once you get the GH test kit and results from your tap water > baseline and > > tank GH, then we'll have more info to know whether you need to do > > anything... but more than likely, if your fish have been doing well > on your > > water, then you should be fine. I use a few broken off pieces of > Cuttle > > Bone (yes, the kind they feed parakeets) in my cherry shrimp tank > filter to > > add calcium carbonate to the tank.. mainly for the calcium so the > shrimp can > > develop proper shells. Crushed coral will basically do the same > thing but > > Cuttle Bone was easier and cheaper for me and I didn't have to use > a filter > > media bag. When the pieces of Cuttle Bone get so small that I can > easily > > pick them out of the filter reservoir, when doing filter > maintenance, then I > > just dump them and add a few more pieces. A single 99 cent Cuttle > Bone > > lasts for years on a 10G cherry shrimp tank. I also used to drop > pieces in > > my other tank when I had Mystery Snails and they would actually > nibble on > > it... at least it looked like they were. I tried dropping a piece > in with > > my cherry shrimp but they don't touch it as far as food goes so I > just put > > it in the filter reservoir. > > > > On a related note, do you have a water softener unit on your home.. > or any > > other kind of home filtration system? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > Here are the final results of the water baseline test: > > Values reading right out of the tap: > > KH: no reading > > PH: 8.2 > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > Nitrite: 0 > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > After 24 hours: > > KH: no reading > > PH: 7.0 > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > Nitrite: 0 > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > After 48 hours: > > KH: no reading > > PH: 7.0 > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > Nitrite: 0 > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > Questions: > > - Should we consider the test completed? > > - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden big PH > drops? I > > understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard that a > sudden PH > > drop could shock them. > > - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral would > increase > > KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as soon > as I get > > it. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a year, > at > > most, > > > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of what > is > > > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. More > than > > likely, > > > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have been > times > > when > > > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria > > > will start converting the ammonia (usually associated with the > ammonia > > part of > > > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is one > of > > > the reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our > drinking > > water. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > > > KH no reading > > > PH 8.2 > > > Ammonia 0.5 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrates 0 > > > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > > > Questions: > > > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their > value > > is 0? I > > > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > > > - How about ammonia and KH? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You > > > either need > > > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding > > > > something to raise > > > the pH > > > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion > in > > > the city > > > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > > > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then > > > once the > > > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. > Often, a > > > utility > > > > will add > > > > > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry > issues by > > > keeping > > > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming > the pH > > > will > > > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > > > > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH > (acidic) > > > and soft > > > > water. > > > > > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact > them > > > to get > > > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are > adding to > > > > the water. > > > > > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to > the > > > fifth > > > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the > condition > > > you are > > > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour > baseline. It > > > would > > > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.htm > > > > l > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > ml> > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > ml > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > ml> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > > > above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final > results. > > > > > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result > on > > > both tap > > > > water and tank water > > > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March > 08) > > > > to > > > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 > > > gallon tank > > > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the > > > > filter > > > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2- > 3 > > > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > > > > - I don't have a GH test > > > > - I use tap water from public utility > > > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > "goldlenny_blogspot" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a > gallon > > > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all > of > > > > your > > > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add > your > > > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > > > > hours > > > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers > changed. > > > > > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested > the > > > > rest > > > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, > give us > > > > > those numbers. > > > > > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? > Are > > > > you > > > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and > KH? > > > > What > > > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well > or ??? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, > 5 > > > > neon > > > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 > > > > > > cory > > > > > cats > > > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > > > Parameters are: > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading > for > > > > > > the > > > > > test > > > > > > kit) > > > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays > yellow > > > > > from > > > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon > > > > > > tanks > > > > > with > > > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > > > > capacity > > > > > and > > > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > > > > capacity > > > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > > Tested on: 12/10/2008 6:06:30 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34342	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!PAM----update!

Found information I needed------waiting on a response now and thanks the AquaBid link.   Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 4:14 PM Pam,   Thanks for your reply and your right!  I think this guy could help.  The problem is since your mail I have been all over the Internet and nothing!  Lots of posts but no information on him. Did a Goggle search that I'm still working on, looking for phone number, email anything for point of contact----- -nothing!  All I got so far was from his profile----- --------- ---he's located in New York!  That's it.   Please sign me ............ ......... ........in work for those Darn Blue Rams!   Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 3:34 PM Have you checked aquabid? I would think you would be able to get them there... Look up Blueram06 email them. I'm sure they can help you or point you in the right dirrection. Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: GoldLenny@gmail. comDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:10:43 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and havethem in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unlessyour current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work andwill give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when itdoesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming,hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)----- Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] OnBehalf Of bill1433Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AMTo: AquaticLifeSubject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderatelysuccessfu l but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did notbuffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lowerback down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that Ishould not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I haveto!While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I wouldALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameterswhere I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades!Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them aroundhere! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recentlycontacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at areasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, withshipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered therules---- --------- -----Water Parameters-- --what are theirs!Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters:pH 7.5GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES)KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES)Temperature 78-82 degreesNow here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I dohave the temperature covered at 80 degrees.Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a setof two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallonsof water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on themshowing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are lookingfor. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set:Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two otherproducts that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer yourhardness. Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simplysaid "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I wouldassume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will thentake them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use thechemicals she stated.Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but inconsidering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem,in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would bedoing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, thenthe use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are yourthoughts, please?Bill_ ____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:10:42 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34343	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film)

Lenny I am only 65 miles north of you and I have 8 to 10 inches of snow in my yard. Lost electricity for about 9 hrs but kept filters and heaters on 3 tanks going with a generator. Didn't know it did this in Louisiana. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Dec 11, 2008, at 9:01 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I told y'all we had a blizzard coming! It's actually snowing right now down here. Mostly just some flurries but it's starting to turn some of the grassy areas kind of whitish colored. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film Good Morning \\Steve// You must remember, �cold� is a relative term and it depends where you�re standing when you used it. Here is Pa for instance, on this icy-cold morning at 32 degrees some would say that�s cold! Bill would say �its another beautiful day in Northern Eastern Pa. Bill thinks anything above 68 degrees is a full-scale heat wave! As for those folks down in the Big Easy? They got great food but lousy weather! Toooooo much heat and with the storms they have; I wouldn�t go anywhere without an armored personal carrier! They are fierce! Stand-by, I have a very tough posting coming up today and need your counseling and advice and that goes for the rest of the �heavy hitters� on here too. You might have to get your notebook out for this one! Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:29 PM Sure does, and what do you mean by " Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D"? First, everyone knows it doesn't get cold in New Orleans in the winter. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Does that mean I have to open my southern-exposure windows for my wintertime > no-tan-lines sunbathing efforts? Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Glass itself is a pretty good blocker of UV rays, so the 90% they are > claiming, is that the film itself, or the amount that does not penetrate the > glass and film? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it > will > > block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes > through > > from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the > thin > > layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to > 99% of > > UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that > I've > > ever tried that! LOL > > > > None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out > during the > > summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself > isn't > > heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal > heat > > loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of > morning > > or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little > cooler > > but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the > ambient > > temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. > > > > To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated > windows > > (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those > windows or > > the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall > > stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the > > plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of > > insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would > work > > during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air > conditioning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > > right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Jennie > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- platinum. > > htm <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- > > platinum. htm> <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- > > film-heat- platinum. htm <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia > > l/window- film-heat- platinum. htm> > > > This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an > plastic > > aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at > night > > with insulation. > > Thanks > > > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM > > > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective > film > > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating > up the > > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage > and > > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like > acrylic > > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron > thick > > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. > It > > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I > doubt > > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes > and > > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like > fiberglass, > > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air > layer, > > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test > this > > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain > glass > > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a > nickel, > > there's none. > > > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in > chemical > > composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much > different > > chemical composition. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on > > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. > > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good > idea? > > > > Jennie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 8:56:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 9:01:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.. square; padding: 6px 0; font-size: 77%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration: none; font-size: 130%; } #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0 8px; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding: 8px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: #628c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: 0; } .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; } blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} --> d|**|-~--> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34344	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Hi Bill, I doubt they are wild as I lost 2 out of 4 of them when I first got them (died overnight, like all fish seem to do when they die at my house). They are long finned blue rams, the 2 that I have left seem pretty healthy and happy though. I haven't posted any pics of my new tank or new fish the last few weeks (Christmas shipping as started and I've been busier than usual), but it's on my to-do list for sure! :) I'm considering using my Q 10 gallon tank for a temporary guppy birth center just to see how big I can raise the fry ;) The LFS worker said she'd take them off my hands for me if I end up with too many, LOL. She uses them as feeders in her tanks. I have some floating plants but the fry don't make it more than 24 hours with my hungry food seekers ;) especialy the angel's and the severum, and the female betta lays in wait like a predator LOL. Amber bill1433 wrote: > Hi Amber, > > I may just hold you to that because it may take that long to find > the “wild fish” I want. Do you know if yours are tank raised or from the wild? > > I knew that finding good stock would not be easy but I never figured on > all the “water problems” just to get them here either. > > By the way, have you posted any pictures of them yet? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 2:39 PM > > > > > > > If I ever get any babies from my long finned blue ram pair you'll be the > first I email Bill, LOL. > My pH is 6 and I have very soft water too ;) I have a very happy little > couple too, I'm hoping maybe someday in the future they start showing > more breeding habits, so far I've only had the male for a couple of > weeks and the female a couple weeks longer than that. Definitely > male/female though I can tell in the coloring differences and how they > act toward each other (follow each other around the tank). I like the > male's coloring more of course, so pretty :) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> Check on Aquabid.com. Post messages in their forums. I am sure that >> someone, somewhere is breeding/raising the fish you seek in similar water >> parameters to your source water so that you do not have to go through such >> drastic measures just to acclimate the new fish... especially since these >> fish do best in acidic soft water conditions. Heck, someone with that kind >> of water, with an unlimited supply from a well similar to yours, would be >> most likely to decide to start breeding acidic soft water fish. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> >> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under >> Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On >> Behalf Of bill1433 >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:40 AM >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! >> >> Yes Lenny, >> >> All of that may be true to some extent. But let's look at a few facts, as >> they are presented. >> First, there is no supplier even remotely close to me that has these fish, >> much less the water parameters I need, why? Its well water! They can't >> match this type of pH and even if they could, they sure can't match my >> water >> hardness, none! >> >> Next, would they say or go through all of this with a potential new >> customer >> with whom they want to sell even more goods too? I think not. A failure >> would most certainly guarantee the lose of a good customer. What business >> today can afford that? >> >> Finally, put it in writing? Give me a brake here! That's how the got Nixon >> and the Watergate Tapes I believe. Nobody puts anything in writing these >> days BUT they do guarantee the fish to live delivery, provided their >> acclamation instructions are carried out properly. Hint? Part of their >> acclamation instructions cover water parameters and that is in writing.. >> >> doing the best I can with what I've got! >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com >> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com >> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> >> Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:10 AM >> >> Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and have >> them in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. >> >> I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unless >> your current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will >> work and >> will give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when it >> doesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming, >> hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOL >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced >> above listed on the right side under Archives >> - Year, Month and under Labels) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] >> On Behalf Of bill1433 >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AM >> To: AquaticLife >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! >> >> Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately >> successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not >> buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower >> back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I >> should not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I >> have to! >> >> While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would >> ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters >> where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades! >> >> Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them around >> here! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recently >> contacted >> an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a reasonable price. >> Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with shipping, seemed >> quite do-able until I remembered the >> rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! >> >> Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters: >> pH 7.5 >> GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES) >> KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES) >> Temperature 78-82 degrees >> Now here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I do have >> the temperature covered at 80 degrees. >> Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends >> a set >> of two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 >> teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons >> of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on >> them >> showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are >> looking >> for. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set: >> Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other >> products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and >> buffer your >> hardness. >> Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she >> simply >> said "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I would >> assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then >> take them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use the >> chemicals she stated. >> Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination >> but in >> considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem, >> in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I >> would be >> doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then >> the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are your >> thoughts, please? >> >> Bill >> >> _____ >> >> avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com <http://www.avast. com>> : >> Outbound message clean. >> >> Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 >> Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:51:11 AM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34345	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Update on 125 gallon planted tank

Okay so I lost a couple of the plants I had started with when I added salt and raised the temps, but most of them made it through fairly well. I have since lowered the salt by a couple PWC's, I believe I'm down to barely anything (9 TBS total, in 125 gallons of water, LOL). I got my GH/KH test kit (API) today and promptly tested the KH in the tank (didn't get to the GH yet). It was at 37, which is still pretty soft but definately an improvement since I added a couple small chunks of coral (didn't crush it, it was on hand from when I bought the tank last month, but I did boil all the chunks for a half an hour before I added them just to be safe). I also got some more CFL bulbs from marinedepot.com and they do a great job shipping their stuff, lots of padding! The bulbs all arrived in great shape. I have only 1 bulb left to replace (it's one of the blue bulbs for saltwater tanks), I ordered 1 bulb from my LFS just to give them some business, but at a price of 55 dollars a bulb I'm not going to be doing that again, I spent 80 dollars including 2nd day shipping for 2 bulbs and the test kit, that's a much better deal than my LFS can give me even including the shipping, LOL. I will be ordering from marine depot again that's for sure. Also my eheim order was finally put through, but no shipping information so far in my email *sigh* they live a little bit to be desired on their customer service ;) Hopefully the parts arrive in the somewhat near future, had to have them sent UPS ground and this time of year it could take weeks to get here :( Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34346	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film)

I am in Keyser, West Virginia and it's been raining all day. Supposed to turn into freezing rain...it's so cold! Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> To: "aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com" <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 5:15:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film) Lenny I am only 65 miles north of you and I have 8 to 10 inches of snow in my yard. Lost electricity for about 9 hrs but kept filters and heaters on 3 tanks going with a generator. Didn't know it did this in Louisiana. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Dec 11, 2008, at 9:01 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I told y'all we had a blizzard coming! It's actually snowing right now down here. Mostly just some flurries but it's starting to turn some of the grassy areas kind of whitish colored. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film Good Morning \\Steve// You must remember, �cold� is a relative term and it depends where you�re standing when you used it. Here is Pa for instance, on this icy-cold morning at 32 degrees some would say that�s cold! Bill would say �its another beautiful day in Northern Eastern Pa. Bill thinks anything above 68 degrees is a full-scale heat wave! As for those folks down in the Big Easy? They got great food but lousy weather! Toooooo much heat and with the storms they have; I wouldn�t go anywhere without an armored personal carrier! They are fierce! Stand-by, I have a very tough posting coming up today and need your counseling and advice and that goes for the rest of the �heavy hitters� on here too. You might have to get your notebook out for this one! Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:29 PM Sure does, and what do you mean by " Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D"? First, everyone knows it doesn't get cold in New Orleans in the winter. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Does that mean I have to open my southern-exposure windows for my wintertime > no-tan-lines sunbathing efforts? Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Glass itself is a pretty good blocker of UV rays, so the 90% they are > claiming, is that the film itself, or the amount that does not penetrate the > glass and film? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it > will > > block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes > through > > from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the > thin > > layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to > 99% of > > UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that > I've > > ever tried that! LOL > > > > None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out > during the > > summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself > isn't > > heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal > heat > > loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of > morning > > or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little > cooler > > but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the > ambient > > temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. > > > > To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated > windows > > (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those > windows or > > the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall > > stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the > > plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of > > insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would > work > > during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air > conditioning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > > right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Jennie > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- platinum. > > htm <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- > > platinum. htm> <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- > > film-heat- platinum. htm <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia > > l/window- film-heat- platinum. htm> > > > This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an > plastic > > aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at > night > > with insulation. > > Thanks > > > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM > > > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective > film > > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating > up the > > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage > and > > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like > acrylic > > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron > thick > > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. > It > > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I > doubt > > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes > and > > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like > fiberglass, > > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air > layer, > > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test > this > > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain > glass > > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a > nickel, > > there's none. > > > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in > chemical > > composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much > different > > chemical composition. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on > > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. > > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good > idea? > > > > Jennie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 8:56:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34347	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!PAM----update!

Your welcome. I hope they can help you. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: warrenprint@...: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:47:03 -0800Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!PAM----update! Found information I needed------waiting on a response now and thanks the AquaBid link. Bill--- On Thu, 12/11/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote:From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comDate: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 4:14 PMPam, Thanks for your reply and your right! I think this guy could help. The problem is since your mail I have been all over the Internet and nothing! Lots of posts but no information on him.Did a Goggle search that I'm still working on, looking for phone number, email anything for point of contact----- -nothing! All I got so far was from his profile----- --------- ---he's located in New York! That's it. Please sign me ............ ......... ........in work for those Darn Blue Rams! Bill--- On Thu, 12/11/08, pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com> wrote:From: pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. comDate: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 3:34 PMHave you checked aquabid? I would think you would be able to get them there... Look up Blueram06 email them. I'm sure they can help you or point you in the right dirrection.PamTo: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: GoldLenny@gmail. comDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:10:43 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and havethem in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unlessyour current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work andwill give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when itdoesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming,hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)----- Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] OnBehalf Of bill1433Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AMTo: AquaticLifeSubject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderatelysuccessfu l butIcould not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did notbuffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lowerback down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that Ishould not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I haveto!While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I wouldALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameterswhere I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades!Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them aroundhere! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recentlycontacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at areasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, withshipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered therules---- --------- -----Water Parameters-- --what are theirs!Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters:pH 7.5GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22DEGREES)KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES)Temperature 78-82 degreesNow here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I dohave the temperature covered at 80 degrees.Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a setof two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallonsof water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on themshowing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are lookingfor. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set:Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two otherproducts that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer yourhardness. Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simplysaid "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I wouldassume that after the fish are acclimated to thenew tank, you will thentake them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use thechemicals she stated.Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but inconsidering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem,in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would bedoing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, thenthe use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are yourthoughts, please?Bill_ ____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:10:42 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34348	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!PAM----update!

Nothing yet, but its a long day here.  I promise to keep you posted on the results.   Thanks again for your thoughtfulness,   Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!PAM----update! To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 6:59 PM Your welcome. I hope they can help you. Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: warrenprint@ yahoo.comDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:47:03 -0800Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!PAM--- -update! Found information I needed------ waiting on a response now and thanks the AquaBid link. Bill--- On Thu, 12/11/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote:From: bill1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com>Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comDate: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 4:14 PMPam, Thanks for your reply and your right! I think this guy could help. The problem is since your mail I have been all over the Internet and nothing! Lots of posts but no information on him.Did a Goggle search that I'm still working on, looking for phone number, email anything for point of contact----- -nothing! All I got so far was from his profile----- --------- ---he's located in New York! That's it. Please sign me ............ .......... ........in work for those Darn Blue Rams! Bill--- On Thu, 12/11/08, pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com> wrote:From: pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. comDate: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 3:34 PMHave you checked aquabid? I would think you would be able to get them there... Look up Blueram06 email them. I'm sure they can help you or point you in the right dirrection.PamTo: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: GoldLenny@gmail. comDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:10:43 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and havethem in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unlessyour current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work andwill give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when itdoesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming,hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)----- Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] OnBehalf Of bill1433Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AMTo: AquaticLifeSubject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderatelysuccessfu l butIcould not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did notbuffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lowerback down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that Ishould not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I haveto!While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I wouldALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameterswhere I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades!Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them aroundhere! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recentlycontacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at areasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, withshipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered therules---- --------- -----Water Parameters-- --what are theirs!Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters:pH 7.5GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22DEGREES) KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES)Temperature 78-82 degreesNow here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I dohave the temperature covered at 80 degrees.Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a setof two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallonsof water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on themshowing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are lookingfor. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set:Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two otherproducts that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer yourhardness. Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simplysaid "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I wouldassume that after the fish are acclimated to thenew tank, you will thentake them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use thechemicals she stated.Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but inconsidering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem,in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would bedoing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, thenthe use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are yourthoughts, please?Bill_ ____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:10:42 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non- text portions of this message have been removed][Non- text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34349	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Here's how to tell the expiration dates on most test kits.. including the API. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt levels. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water replaced with 1T of salt. I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the need to question your present salt content and your methods with which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you could clarify this further if this is not the case. I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may be out-dated). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still > considered within acceptable limits. > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can > take more but not by a whole lot. > > The general question of whether you can add medications while there > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get > a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of > salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 > 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon > (not 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > seeming to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having > the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what > your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is > the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate > was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan > II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at > all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems > a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for > the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and > live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a > PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so > I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also > does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home > and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G > or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe > to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in > the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> productId=2752208 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2752208> or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> productId=2754035 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2754035> > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting > the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online > from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more > for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in > the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap > water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product > (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? > If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the > 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by > the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but > also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs > lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water > level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes > more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants > to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still > about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday > and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... > and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons > to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those > 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) > and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x > W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. > For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" > x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect > on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy > was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills > off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once > in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish > have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh > for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers > and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps > just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means > you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish > to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be > 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting > in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it > didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler > and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn > my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The > fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just > not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a > 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, > the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than > 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then > the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH > after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus > KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 > but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where > do > > I find test > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > Detroit > > area of > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the > tail > > and dorsal > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > disappearing. > > Raven > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting > dark > > spots, > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still > has > > a good > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 20 > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > water > > with 1T per > > > G salt) > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made > mental > > note to > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > > obvious and the > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > white > > areas, but > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as > always. > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in > there > > somewhere > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > > bubbles that > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme > bug- > > eye look, > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > grasses > > with > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll > just > > take a pair > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not > that > > I've ever > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > > plastic plants, > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > > up.. 7-10 days > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad > it > > was. Same > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > take a > > while for > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > Tablespoons > > which would > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one > more > > dose to > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > total of > > 90 > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should > start > > to have a > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us > know > > which day > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the > salt > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > > your tank. > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let > the > > ammonia get > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > ammonia in > > check. > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with > the > > same level > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > before > > adding the > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > > article on > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > > bucket. Test > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > dechlor. > > Test it > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > numbers > > will likely > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > baseline. > > Agitation > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > > This baseline > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > in > > your tap > > > water. > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > groups. I > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an > email > > and then I > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I > get > > the Daily > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > replies > > to a Daily > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. > I've > > never seen > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > > automatically > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > Daily > > Digests. > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > take a > > few seconds > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for > the > > thread they > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > > show in reply > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > > upgrades to the > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > > replies > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > messages in > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > looking > > for other > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > chronological order.. > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > longer > > threads. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > whitish > > areas > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > eyes. > > This may be a > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > > with that, > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured > than > > find her > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages > in > > a day, > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the > digest > > version go > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the > new > > messages. > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting > the > > digest > > > version. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > because > > the fish > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > white > > and the > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > looking > > exhausted > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was > using > > Rid-Ich+. > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking > at > > all those > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided > to > > try going > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > attendant > > for help. I > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > customers > > for rodent > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > > shavings, that > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet > much > > sooner, > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > keeping > > them in > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I > had > > time for. > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon > and > > the only > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > sealant. > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) > before > > going to > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > > another 2T > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > > replacement > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a > total > > of 6T in > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning > and > > 20T tomorrow > > > night. > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > > Carol Burnett) > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > other > > two (Lucille > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her > (?) > > dorsal fin > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though > it > > makes me > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > with > > adding > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > > higher nitrite > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > > either the > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > > nitrite level is > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > > protect the fish > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but > you > > need some to > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did > you > > ever add > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go > a > > long way... > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have > an up > > and > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > future, > > it would > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > fish > > were gone or > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > getting > > stagnant. > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > > weren't any > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > > worse. You've > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > > anyhow. > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > > malachite > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > > mentioned it. > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. > Four > > days isn't > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > > effect. > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > says to > > dose the > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a > nine > > day > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > weaker > > or what. > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > options... > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite > > green: > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > > parasites. > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a > stock > > solution > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the > stock > > solution > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > whatever > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many > mgs > > of > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > solution > > uses 20 > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 > mg > > malachite per > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > > Higher dose only > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with > 1 > > ml stock > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every > other > > day for a > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > > every three > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml > of > > stock > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should > only > > be used with > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly > to > > a wound, > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > fish's > > eyes and > > > gills. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > series of > > 25% PWC's > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > medicinally > > treated > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > remove > > the rest. > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > > will be the > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > > this fresh > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > > their > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > antibiotic.. > > were you > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > > interdiction or > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much > help > > with your > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > > treatment. > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > salt > > but DO NOT > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > treatment unless > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says > it's > > OK. It's > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions > from > > a very > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or > pet > > store > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > > fish a 24 > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > treatment... > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > > gallon), which is > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > with a > > dose of 1 > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute > this > > salt in a > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into > the > > tank, > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already > added > > 6 > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it > up to > > the > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > later, > > add another > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. > 12 > > hours > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > teaspoons per > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > putting > > your > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your > fish > > to adjust > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), > if > > and/or when > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you > would > > then add 15 > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you > add > > it back > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially > one > > after the > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the > salt a > > chance to > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > happening to the > > > fish. > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > better > > and it's also > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies > like > > I did with > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include > my > > previous > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go > to > > the webpage > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever > this > > is under > > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a > few > > new white > > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it > seems > > to have > > > started on the body. > > > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned > that > > I can't get > > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got > canning > > salt, so I > > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a > 30 G > > tank, > > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > > times 12 hours > > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > > therapeutic > > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I > did > > see on the > > > company website that they can be used together). The problem > is > > that they > > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." > Is > > that > > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the > tank > > is, yet? > > > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. > I'll > > retest > > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > > Nitrate: >10 & > > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the > Goldfish > > are in now. > > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and > were > > all gone by > > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at > least > > another 6 > > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job > change > > and fewer > > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter > was > > run for a > > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was > turned > > off and my > > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > > components on eBay, > > > but never got around to it. > > > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > > arrived in a > > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > > back problems > > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and > they > > needed a new > > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for > about > > a year in > > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > > don't know > > > when or how that one died. > > > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour > and > > then > > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. > I > > believe the > > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no > cleaning > > was done. > > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish > arrived. > > > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > > sponge and > > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in > it. I > > picked up a > > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed > that > > it didn't > > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > > biofilter, but > > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully > there's > > enough > > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that > came > > with the > > > goldfish. > > > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM > does > > that to me > > > sometimes, lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34350	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

Yahoo zapped the old profiles when they bought out a social networking company and are using the formats from that company for the "new" Yahoo Profiles Beta... yes, they stuck everybody with a Beta test program without asking... but here are instructions for re-setting up your Yahoo Profile. It worked for me and come from a knowledgeable computer user in another Yahoo Group that I help out in. Your old info/picture/etc. is still there but it just needs to be activated again. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Yahoo_Messenger/message/6115 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joe t Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? Hi. Speaking of members lists and such. I went to my profile to change and delete on of my email addresses. Wanted to delete my hotmail address which I haven't used in years. Can not do it...........or maybe I just do not know how. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34351	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Question For Our Moderator's?

Once they get people's Yahoo ID's and passwords, they would go to that person's Yahoo Groups and send invites to everyone in the group... and also to anyone in that persons Yahoo Mail address book. I regularly get Grouply invites from people who are still ignorantly giving up their info. I personally do not keep any important information in any of my Yahoo accounts but I know some people use Yahoo services for lots of things like investments, banking, etc., so those folks are putting themselves at risk. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question For Our Moderator's? Pardon my ignorance, Lenny. I am not too big on understanding this computer stuff. But one thing I do know for sure is that I would NEVER give anyone or anything my password for any reason. Why would this grouply thing ask for that? joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > To me, it depends on the type of group. Some groups like to keep their > Members info private but it doesn't really stop email harvesting unless all > of the messages are also blocked from public viewing... meaning people would > have to join the group to even lurk and read info. Since the messages in > this group are not blocked from public viewing, each time a member posts a > message, their Yahoo ID is included and oftentimes, the bulk of or all of > their email address is also listed. For those of us who get the posts via > email, we also get each email address used by the member so an email > harvester could get the email addresses anyhow. > > By moderating new members so they have to now include a "live" comment as to > why they want to join the group, it's much harder for spam-bots to join the > group (but they still try). The bigger concern affecting many Yahoo Groups > is the relatively new Grouply thing, where some members are inadvertently > giving Grouply access to their own Yahoo Group accounts, including giving > Grouply their Yahoo ID's and passwords, so then Grouply is able to harvest > all of the other members to send out their invites. When Grouply was first > formed, people HAD to give Grouply access to their Yahoo accounts and > passwords but now Grouply has backed off from that rule so it's only > optional but still has their default joining page set up where uninformed > people might still give Grouply their Yahoo ID's and passwords. > > There are so many ways for spammers to get people's email addresses, trying > to use Yahoo's limited security features to block email harvesting is mostly > futile so other than making it harder for spam-bots to join the groups, the > blocking of member lists is mostly not needed.... at least not blocking the > member lists from actual members. If there are no spam-bots in a > group, then there is no major concern to stop other members from being > able to locate a fellow member for the purposes of sending a private message, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:35 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question For Our Moderator's? > > Like many on this list, I belong to other groups as well. > When you go to these group sites there is always a link on the left > hand side of the page titled "Members". > > If you click on this link you can find, in alphabetical order, all members > of the list. > > Question? Where is ours? Ok, why? Because I have been here for a while > now but having the bad memory that I do, and subject to more "senior > moments" than I care to admit to, I can't remember the exact date I joined, > this "Members" list would help. > > Just a thought, > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

You should be able to send him a PM (Private Message) through Aquabid... at least I think you should. Most forums have this feature but I've never done it at Aquabid. Go to his Aquabid Member Profile or one of his posts and there should be a link to "Send a PM" or something like that. Here.. I just did the work for you. Go to this link, one of his ads on Aquabid.com, and you'll see "Ask Seller a question" on the right side. You may have to register/join Aquabid first but maybe not. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fw&1229105390 His Member Page also has an Email me link at the bottom. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?justdisp&Blueram06 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Pam, Thanks for your reply and your right! I think this guy could help. The problem is since your mail I have been all over the Internet and nothing! Lots of posts but no information on him. Did a Goggle search that I'm still working on, looking for phone number, email anything for point of contact------nothing! All I got so far was from his profile-----------------he's located in New York! That's it. Please sign me .............................in work for those Darn Blue Rams! Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, pam andress <pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 3:34 PM Have you checked aquabid? I would think you would be able to get them there.. Look up Blueram06 email them. I'm sure they can help you or point you in the right dirrection. Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: GoldLenny@gmail. comDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:10:43 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and havethem in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unlessyour current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work andwill give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when itdoesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming,hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)----- Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] OnBehalf Of bill1433Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AMTo: AquaticLifeSubject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderatelysuccessfu l but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did notbuffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lowerback down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that Ishould not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I haveto!While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I wouldALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameterswhere I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades!Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them aroundhere! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recentlycontacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at areasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, withshipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered therules---- --------- -----Water Parameters-- --what are theirs!Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters:pH 7.5GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES)KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES)Temperature 78-82 degreesNow here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I dohave the temperature covered at 80 degrees.Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a setof two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallonsof water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on themshowing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are lookingfor. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set:Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two otherproducts that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer yourhardness. Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simplysaid "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I wouldassume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will thentake them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use thechemicals she stated.Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but inconsidering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem,in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would bedoing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, thenthe use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are yourthoughts, please?Bill_ ____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:10:42 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34353	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film)

Yeah.. and this time, it's not my fault! The last time we had this much snow in southern Louisiana was Christmas weekend of 1989... an infamous weekend when I got married. My mom always said it would be a cold day in hell if I ever got married... and I think that the three days of below freezing weather (never happens in N'Awlins), thousands of car crashes, frozen and busted water pipes in tens of thousands of homes, etc., and then getting stuck with my ex-wife for the next five years... is about as close to hell as one can get. LOL I accept blame for the 1989 N'Awlins Blizzard but it's not my fault this year. LOL We ended up with about an inch of snow on the grassy areas but the streets were at worst a little slushy but not frozen anywhere that I saw... maybe some of the bigger bridges but they shut them down anyhow. I do remember driving down a bridge back in 1989 and seeing cars spinning all over the place but my big Ford Van didn't have any problems. Thank God for generators! I got my first back in the Summer time and it sure is reassuring to know that we have access to power when a hurricane or blizzard strikes the area. I can only imagine how that snow is breaking all them pine tree branches messing up the power lines. The worst we had down here was Cox Cable lost the satellite feed for the mid-range channels so I couldn't watch Fox News and had to actually watch MSNBC for a while earlier today after they found the potential Caylee Anthony remains down in Florida. On a side note... GO SAINTS!!!! KICK SOME BEAR ASS TONIGHT!!! LOL (Take that any Chicago members!!!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 4:16 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] SNOWING IN N'AWLINS (was Re: window film) Lenny I am only 65 miles north of you and I have 8 to 10 inches of snow in my yard. Lost electricity for about 9 hrs but kept filters and heaters on 3 tanks going with a generator. Didn't know it did this in Louisiana. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Dec 11, 2008, at 9:01 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I told y'all we had a blizzard coming! It's actually snowing right now down here. Mostly just some flurries but it's starting to turn some of the grassy areas kind of whitish colored. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film Good Morning \\Steve// You must remember, “cold” is a relative term and it depends where you’re standing when you used it. Here is Pa for instance, on this icy-cold morning at 32 degrees some would say that’s cold! Bill would say “its another beautiful day in Northern Eastern Pa. Bill thinks anything above 68 degrees is a full-scale heat wave! As for those folks down in the Big Easy? They got great food but lousy weather! Toooooo much heat and with the storms they have; I wouldn’t go anywhere without an armored personal carrier! They are fierce! Stand-by, I have a very tough posting coming up today and need your counseling and advice and that goes for the rest of the “heavy hitters” on here too. You might have to get your notebook out for this one! Bill --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:29 PM Sure does, and what do you mean by " Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D"? First, everyone knows it doesn't get cold in New Orleans in the winter. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Does that mean I have to open my southern-exposure windows for my wintertime > no-tan-lines sunbathing efforts? Brrrrr.. could get chilly! :-D > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > Glass itself is a pretty good blocker of UV rays, so the 90% they are > claiming, is that the film itself, or the amount that does not penetrate the > glass and film? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > As you'll see, it claims to "reflect 70% of Summer Heat"... meaning it > will > > block 70% of sunlight, but not the thermal heat loss/gain that comes > through > > from the inside/outside ambient temperature changing where only the > thin > > layer of glass is the actual insulator. It also says it blocks up to > 99% of > > UV rays, meaning no naked tanning in front of that window.. not that > I've > > ever tried that! LOL > > > > None of these things will keep heat in. They won't keep heat out > during the > > summer either. They simply block the sunlight so the sunbeam itself > isn't > > heating things up inside your home. You'll still get the same thermal > heat > > loss through the glass. It's helpful for windows that get a lot of > morning > > or evening sun to help keep the rooms where those windows a little > cooler > > but it doesn't do anything to actually insulate the windows from the > ambient > > temperature exchange taking place through the uninsulated glass. > > > > To gain some insulation from thermal loss, you would need insulated > windows > > (double paned glass), proper caulking/weather stripping of those > windows or > > the budget way of using the clear plastic film kits on the inside wall > > stretched across the window box to create a dead-air space between the > > plastic and the glass and this dead-air space would provide a lot of > > insulation benefits from heat loss through the windows. This would > work > > during the winter or summer.. to help keep in the heat or air > conditioning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > > right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Jennie > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- platinum. > > htm <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- film-heat- > > platinum. htm> <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia l/window- > > film-heat- platinum. htm <http://www.gilafilm s.com/Residentia > > l/window- film-heat- platinum. htm> > > > This is the film I was looking at. I might be better off getting an > plastic > > aquaruim if they insulate that much better. I already wrap my tank at > night > > with insulation. > > Thanks > > > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] window film > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 PM > > > > That film does not work in the way you are thinking. It's a reflective > film > > to reflect sunlight from outside which does stop the sun from heating > up the > > inside of your home and the film will block some UV rays from entering > > un-blinded windows so that it protects furniture, etc., from UV damage > and > > it might have a very small amount of thermal insulation much like > acrylic > > has better thermal insulation properties over glass but a one micron > thick > > piece of film is simply not going to be very efficient or effective. > It > > might have some insulative value for keeping heat in your home but I > doubt > > it comes close to 50% insulative value. > > > > If it worked like they try to claim, we would be insulating our homes > and > > businesses with it rather than using much bulkier things like > fiberglass, > > styrofoam, etc. Unless that film has two layers, separated by an air > layer, > > it would not likely have much thermal insulation value. You could test > this > > by applying a piece of the film on the glass and then touch the plain > glass > > and the filmed glass to see if there is a difference. I'll bet you a > nickel, > > there's none. > > > > Now, on my tanks, the one with glass is noticeably cooler to the touch > > compared to when I touch my acrylic tank. Acrylic is closer in > chemical > > composition to plastic/polymer/ styrofoam where glass has a much > different > > chemical composition. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > > On Behalf Of jjmiltner > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] window film > > > > Has anyone tried using insulating window film on an aquarium. I used > it on > > the windows of my house and it supposed to keep in over 50% of the > heat. > > Only draw back is it looks like a mirror unless a light is on. I was > > thinking of doing it on my aquarium. Just wondering if it was a good > idea? > > > > Jennie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 8:56:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 9:01:01 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.. square; padding: 6px 0; font-size: 77%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration: none; font-size: 130%; } #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ background-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0 8px; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding: 8px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: #628c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: 0; } .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; } blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} --> d|**|-~--> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34354	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....

Well, I found another deal, on a 72 gal. bow front tank....What is your views on the 72? I have never had a bow front tank, does it change your view of fish or what? All opinions welcome.....And it is a great deal.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34355	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Already Covered Thanks for trying to help Len. Very nice people email plus a phone call.   Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 8:31 PM You should be able to send him a PM (Private Message) through Aquabid... at least I think you should. Most forums have this feature but I've never done it at Aquabid. Go to his Aquabid Member Profile or one of his posts and there should be a link to "Send a PM" or something like that. Here.. I just did the work for you. Go to this link, one of his ads on Aquabid.com, and you'll see "Ask Seller a question" on the right side. You may have to register/join Aquabid first but maybe not. http://www.aquabid. com/cgi-bin/ auction/auction. cgi?fw&122910539 0 His Member Page also has an Email me link at the bottom. http://www.aquabid. com/cgi-bin/ auction/auction. cgi?justdisp& Blueram06 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:15 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Pam, Thanks for your reply and your right! I think this guy could help. The problem is since your mail I have been all over the Internet and nothing! Lots of posts but no information on him. Did a Goggle search that I'm still working on, looking for phone number, email anything for point of contact----- -nothing! All I got so far was from his profile----- --------- ---he's located in New York! That's it. Please sign me ............ ......... ........in work for those Darn Blue Rams! Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com <mailto:pamandress2 3%40hotmail. com> > wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com <mailto:pamandress2 3%40hotmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 3:34 PM Have you checked aquabid? I would think you would be able to get them there.. Look up Blueram06 email them. I'm sure they can help you or point you in the right dirrection. Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. comFrom: GoldLenny@gmail. comDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:10:43 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and havethem in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unlessyour current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work andwill give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when itdoesn't.. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming,hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOLLenny VasbinderFish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com(Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives- Year, Month and under Labels)----- Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] OnBehalf Of bill1433Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AMTo: AquaticLifeSubject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules!Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderatelysuccessfu l but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did notbuffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lowerback down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that Ishould not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I haveto!While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I wouldALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameterswhere I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades!Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them aroundhere! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recentlycontacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at areasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, withshipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered therules---- --------- -----Water Parameters-- --what are theirs!Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters:pH 7.5GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES)KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES)Temperature 78-82 degreesNow here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I dohave the temperature covered at 80 degrees.Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a setof two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallonsof water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on themshowing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are lookingfor. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set:Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two otherproducts that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer yourhardness. Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simplysaid "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I wouldassume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will thentake them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use thechemicals she stated.Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but inconsidering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem,in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would bedoing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, thenthe use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are yourthoughts, please?Bill_ ____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast. com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008Tested on: 12/11/2008 10:10:42 AMavast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34356	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Thanks! All of my bottles are from Oct of '06 or later, so they a year or more to go still. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Here's how to tell the expiration dates on most test kits.. including the API. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt levels. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water replaced with 1T of salt. I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the need to question your present salt content and your methods with which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you could clarify this further if this is not the case. I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may be out-dated). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still > considered within acceptable limits. > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can > take more but not by a whole lot. > > The general question of whether you can add medications while there > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get > a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of > salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 > 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon > (not 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > seeming to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having > the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what > your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is > the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate > was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan > II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at > all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems > a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for > the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and > live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a > PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so > I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also > does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home > and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G > or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe > to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in > the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> productId=2752208 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2752208> or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> productId=2754035 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2754035> > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting > the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online > from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more > for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in > the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap > water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product > (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? > If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the > 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by > the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but > also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs > lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water > level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes > more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants > to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still > about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday > and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... > and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons > to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those > 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) > and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x > W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. > For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" > x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect > on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy > was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills > off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once > in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish > have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh > for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers > and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps > just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means > you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish > to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be > 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting > in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it > didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler > and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn > my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The > fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just > not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a > 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, > the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than > 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then > the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH > after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus > KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 > but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where > do > > I find test > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > Detroit > > area of > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the > tail > > and dorsal > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > disappearing. > > Raven > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting > dark > > spots, > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still > has > > a good > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 20 > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > water > > with 1T per > > > G salt) > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made > mental > > note to > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > > obvious and the > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > white > > areas, but > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as > always. > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in > there > > somewhere > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > > bubbles that > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme > bug- > > eye look, > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > grasses > > with > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll > just > > take a pair > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not > that > > I've ever > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > > plastic plants, > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > > up.. 7-10 days > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad > it > > was. Same > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > take a > > while for > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > Tablespoons > > which would > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one > more > > dose to > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > total of > > 90 > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should > start > > to have a > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us > know > > which day > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the > salt > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > > your tank. > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let > the > > ammonia get > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > ammonia in > > check. > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with > the > > same level > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > before > > adding the > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > > article on > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > > bucket. Test > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > dechlor. > > Test it > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > numbers > > will likely > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > baseline. > > Agitation > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > > This baseline > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > in > > your tap > > > water. > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > groups. I > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an > email > > and then I > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I > get > > the Daily > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > replies > > to a Daily > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. > I've > > never seen > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > > automatically > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > Daily > > Digests. > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > take a > > few seconds > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for > the > > thread they > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > > show in reply > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > > upgrades to the > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > > replies > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > messages in > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > looking > > for other > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > chronological order.. > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > longer > > threads. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > whitish > > areas > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > eyes. > > This may be a > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > > with that, > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured > than > > find her > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages > in > > a day, > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the > digest > > version go > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the > new > > messages. > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting > the > > digest > > > version. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > because > > the fish > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > white > > and the > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > looking > > exhausted > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was > using > > Rid-Ich+. > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking > at > > all those > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided > to > > try going > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > attendant > > for help. I > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > customers > > for rodent > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > > shavings, that > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet > much > > sooner, > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > keeping > > them in > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I > had > > time for. > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon > and > > the only > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > sealant. > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) > before > > going to > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > > another 2T > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > > replacement > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a > total > > of 6T in > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning > and > > 20T tomorrow > > > night. > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > > Carol Burnett) > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > other > > two (Lucille > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her > (?) > > dorsal fin > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though > it > > makes me > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > with > > adding > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > > higher nitrite > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > > either the > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > > nitrite level is > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > > protect the fish > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but > you > > need some to > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did > you > > ever add > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go > a > > long way... > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have > an up > > and > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > future, > > it would > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > fish > > were gone or > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > getting > > stagnant. > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > > weren't any > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > > worse. You've > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > > anyhow. > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > > malachite > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > > mentioned it. > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. > Four > > days isn't > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > > effect. > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > says to > > dose the > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a > nine > > day > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > weaker > > or what. > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > options... > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite > > green: > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > > parasites. > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a > stock > > solution > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the > stock > > solution > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > whatever > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many > mgs > > of > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > solution > > uses 20 > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 > mg > > malachite per > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > > Higher dose only > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with > 1 > > ml stock > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every > other > > day for a > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > > every three > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml > of > > stock > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should > only > > be used with > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly > to > > a wound, > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > fish's > > eyes and > > > gills. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > series of > > 25% PWC's > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > medicinally > > treated > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > remove > > the rest. > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > > will be the > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > > this fresh > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > > their > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > antibiotic.. > > were you > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > > interdiction or > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much > help > > with your > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > > treatment. > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > salt > > but DO NOT > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > treatment unless > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says > it's > > OK. It's > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions > from > > a very > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or > pet > > store > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > > fish a 24 > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > treatment... > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > > gallon), which is > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > with a > > dose of 1 > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute > this > > salt in a > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into > the > > tank, > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already > added > > 6 > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it > up to > > the > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > later, > > add another > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. > 12 > > hours > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > teaspoons per > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > putting > > your > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your > fish > > to adjust > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), > if > > and/or when > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you > would > > then add 15 > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you > add > > it back > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially > one > > after the > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the > salt a > > chance to > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > happening to the > > > fish. > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > better > > and it's also > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies > like > > I did with > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include > my > > previous > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go > to > > the webpage > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever > this > > is under > > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a > few > > new white > > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it > seems > > to have > > > started on the body. > > > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned > that > > I can't get > > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got > canning > > salt, so I > > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a > 30 G > > tank, > > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > > times 12 hours > > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > > therapeutic > > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I > did > > see on the > > > company website that they can be used together). The problem > is > > that they > > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." > Is > > that > > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the > tank > > is, yet? > > > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. > I'll > > retest > > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > > Nitrate: >10 & > > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the > Goldfish > > are in now. > > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and > were > > all gone by > > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at > least > > another 6 > > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job > change > > and fewer > > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter > was > > run for a > > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was > turned > > off and my > > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > > components on eBay, > > > but never got around to it. > > > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > > arrived in a > > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > > back problems > > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and > they > > needed a new > > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for > about > > a year in > > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > > don't know > > > when or how that one died. > > > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour > and > > then > > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. > I > > believe the > > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no > cleaning > > was done. > > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish > arrived. > > > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > > sponge and > > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in > it. I > > picked up a > > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed > that > > it didn't > > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > > biofilter, but > > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully > there's > > enough > > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that > came > > with the > > > goldfish. > > > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM > does > > that to me > > > sometimes, lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34357	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: new tank/update

I have run the Whisper filter media (from old tank) in the AC-70 filter (new tank) for a while, have vacuumed the gravel several times and done pwc in old tank, trying to keep temp. consistent. When they tested the water, the ammonia was the color of the second square from the left. I assumed the best was all the way to the left. I am trying to figure out just when to make the big move. Probably tomorrow afternoon. I am just wondering if I need to have one of those amm. monitors, or master test kits before I do move them? You mentioned watching the ammonia and nitrite and all other levels. I feel more confident with this method, but still, don't want to put them in danger. Most likely I will have to order the master test kit, and that could take a week, and I can't keep running to the pet store to get the water tested. I'll see what I can find tomorrow morning when I am out, near several pet shops. On the other hand, they have survived this long! And with me not knowing anything about fancy goldfish when I first rescued them, after they were abandoned, when some humans moved out and didn't take them! BTW, "the pneumonias" salesperson, admitted she was out of her depth on giving advice about the fish, and gave me the names of two others to ask for when I came back (if). All I bought from them was a thermometer for the tank, and the water dechlorinator. It is a chain, and from another store of theirs, I got the parts for the filter that I THOUGHT were missing. Of course, after they so kindly sold them to me from a filter that had been returned, I found one of the missing pieces. I still would have needed the propeller. Thanks, Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > As far as the fishless cycling, if you were starting up a new tank and were > planning on getting all new fish for the new tank, then fishless cycling the > new tank and using some of your old tank's filter media would be a good idea > but since you are simply upgrading the fish from the smaller tank to the > bigger tank, you can simply transfer as much of the current ecosystem and > biology from the old tank to the new tank so the new tank starts off with an > almost identical ecosystem as the old tank.. which is why I call it cloning. > > Since the AC-70 has a decent sized reservoir, you could leave the charcoal > out (since it's not needed as a permanent filter media anyhow) and take the > filter media (floss pad/sponge/etc.) from the Whisper and fold it up and put > it into the media holder of the AC-70. You want the sponge block on the > bottom then the "old" media, then the biomax (stones) media as the top/last > level of filtration. The AC brand uses a series of channels so that the > intake water is channeled down to the bottom of the reservoir and then flows > up through the filter media before pouring out the waterfall... so you want > the biomax as the top/last layer so only filtered water is flowing over it > so it does not get clogged up with detritus since it will be a big part of > the nitrifying bacteria colony in that filter system. > > If you are using a tap water dechlor, there's no need to let the water stand > for 24 hours before using it for a PWC... as long as you can reasonable > control the temperature of the tap water so that it's close to your tank > water temp, you can refill it directly from the tap after siphoning out the > old water during a PWC. This is how the Python Water Change System works. > > In all likelihood, the 0.5ppm level of ammonia in the new tank is from the > residual ammonia left over after treating tap water that is disinfected with > chloramine (chlorine and ammonia compound). The tap water dechlor breaks > the chloramine bond and the chlorine is broken down and the ammonia remains. > Usually, that low level of ammonia is immediately utilized by the nitrifying > bacteria in an established tank with no problems since a 25% PWC would only > introduce 0.125ppm of ammonia... a very low level that usually won't even > show up on an ammonia test kit. > > She was right about the plants utilizing this ammonia also but just running > your established filter on the new tank for a couple of minutes would also > have eaten up that level of ammonia... presuming it was only the 0.5ppm > residual level from chloramines. Without having actual numbers, it's > difficult to be certain so I'm just relying on my experience in many other > similar situations. > > No, the dip strips are NOT recommended. They are not very accurate or they > are inconsistent so you are never sure of their results. The API or > Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kits are both inexpensive (under $20.00) and > accurate and are available via Walmart.com with free delivery to a local > Walmart store... if you have one nearby. If you don't, then the API kit is > readily available online from many sites and DrsFosterSmith.com had the best > price the last time I compared prices but then there would be a shipping > charge. > > Be VERY careful about getting any advice or buying anything from that store > that referred to "the pneumonias". Check with us out here before wasting > your time or money with them. It's OK to use them for free water testing > right now but you really need to get your own Master Test Kit. Relying on > them for testing seems like an accident waiting to happen. I would get the > Master Test Kit before getting the alert monitors. After your tank is set > up, if you have extra money and want to get the Ammonia and pH alerts, they > are a convenience but really, once the new tank is set up as I instructed > and you test the water using the Master Test Kit (or utilize the pet stores > free testing daily), you will see that things will likely be OK. I am > currently using one of the SeaChem pH alert monitors in my goldfish tank, > more as a comparison test to the Mardel pH monitor that I was using since I > got it for free.... and the pH monitor is OK to use in an established tank > to be sure your weekly maintenance schedule is sufficient to maintain the pH > in a tank with a heavy bioload.. like goldfish tanks. > > Give us the details on all products that they have sold you so far. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 4:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new tank > > Thanks, I had to wash the things, because I bought everything from a guy at > a garage sale. > It was dusty, had old seaweed, and all that white crusty stuff. No soap was > used. > > The old filter is "second nature Whisper power filter" C. The new filter is > Aqua clear 70 with the three layers of sponge, charcoal, and stones. > > So, I don't do the steps for "Cycling a filter without fish" that I read on > your Blog? Okay. I am going to have to have a LOT of water ready to do all > the pw changes ever few hours! I have been letting the tap water stand for > at least 24 hours before using. I just bought some water dechlolinator. ( > that's what they recommended at store for the elevated ammonia level) > > She also recommended just letting it filter for a few more days. so, i did > that and went back to test again. Actually, the second time I had the water > tested, it was the ammonia level was the same, but the person kept referring > to "the pneumonias." LOL She also recommended that I put the plants in the > new tank to help reduce the amm. level. So I just did that a day or two ago, > and only put one in, the other is floating in the old tank. > > I guess I have to get the ammonia alert thing before I do this to keep an > eye on the level. > At the pet store, they tested the water ( free) with the test strips. Are > they not recommended? They said the water in the old tank, which I also had > tested, looked okay on all parameters. Actually the old and new tank waters > were both good, only dif was the slightly high amm level in the new tank. > Thanks, > Joanna > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I hope you didn't wash things too much.. unless you are talking about > > the new gravel. It would have been best to leave the anacharis in the > > old tank until moving day. Any good live bacteria that would have been > > living on the anacharis has died off now without an ammonia source for > > a week... but that's only a minor issue. > > > > The best way of upgrading a tank is to clone the old tank into the new > tank. > > > > The good nitrifying bacteria live on the surface areas of the tank.. > > mostly in the filter media but also on the gravel, decorations, plants > > and even the glass. > > > > If the 20G tank is fully cycled, then what you want to do is transfer > > the filter and everything else that isn't tied down from the old tank > > to the new tank and then move the fish into the new tank. This might > > result in a mini-cycle but it shouldn't last more than a few days and > > not have the high ammonia/nitrite levels associated with starting from > scratch. > > > > Leave the new filter on the new tank and the old filter on the old > > tank with the fish. Gravel vacuum the old tank a couple of times while > > doing 25% PWC's (partial water changes) every couple of hours until > > the old tank has very similar or almost identical water parameters to > > the new tank. Once the gravel is almost completely clean of detritus, > > you are ready to make the move. At this point, move the decorations > > and floating plants to the new tank. Then move the fish and filter > > system to the new tank (You'll run both filters on the new tank for a > > couple of weeks... or more). All that should be left in the old tank > > is any planted plants (if any) and the gravel. Now, get a colander and > > a slotted spoon (or clean cat litter scoop) and start scooping up the > > gravel and filling up the colander. If you are using new gravel in the > > new tank, then you want to put the old gravel into several nylon > > stocking pouches (or other suitable mesh material) and pour the gravel > > into the pouches and add the pouches into separate areas of your new > > tank where they get water circulation.. in other words, not stacked > > up. If using the old gravel in the new tank, then each time you fill > > the colander, lift it and let the dirty water drain and then move the > > colander into the new tank and slowly pour it out. Yes, there will > > still be some dirty water coming off the gravel but it will settle or be > filtered soon. Repeat as necessary. > > > > Now test your water for ammonia and nitrites.. and all other test > > results and give us the numbers on a daily basis. Do a 25% PWC any > > time the ammonia or nitrite reaches 1.0ppm.. unless your pH is over > > 7.5, then do a PWC whenever the ammonia reaches 0.5ppm. Also add a > > pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning issues, should you > have a nitrite issue. > > > > Usually, when cloning an old tank into a new tank, I never get much of > > an ammonia or nitrite reading and do not even have to do a single PWC > > before the nitrifying bacteria handle any small level of ammonia or > nitrite. > > > > Once a week, if the water parameters are staying in good shape, remove > > one of the pouches of the old gravel (if applicable) and after 3-4 > > weeks, if you do not want both filters running on the tank (two > > filters on a 55G is a good thing), take the old filter cartridge/media > > from the smaller filter system and put it into the reservoir of the > > newer/bigger filter. Then you can remove the older/smaller filter system. > > > > Tell us your filter system brand and model and I could probably give > > you more details on proper maintenance for it. I also have a long > > article on my blog about Filter Maintenance and Cleaning that would > > give you some good info on keeping your filter properly cycled. This > > is really important on heavily stocked tanks.. like with a couple of > goldfish in a 55G tank. > > > > If you decide to get the little alerts, get the SeaChem brand and get > > the ammonia and the pH alerts. I have a recent blog article where I > > compared the SeaChem and Mardel alerts and the SeaChem brand is much > > more accurate and much less expensive. > > > > You should also get a Master Test Kit. Under $20.00 from WalMart.com > > and they have free shipping to your local store. Get either the API or > > the TetraTest-Laborette brand. The API is the better bargain even > > though it costs a little more up front, it will perform a LOT more > > tests since the bottles of reagent chemicals are larger. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > > listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of olesonjo > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank > > > > > > I am setting up a 55 gal tank for my fancy goldfish. They have been in > > a 20 g for as long as i have had them. I have washed everything, put > > the rinsed gravel in, the castles, water, some anacharis, the aerator. > > I got a new propeller for the filter. > > The water has been filtering for about a week. I have not put the fish > > in yet. I took a sample to the pet store to be tested, and guess what? > > everything is fine except the ammonia. So I broke down and read about > > the nitorgen cycling. > > Now, my question is, should I put the new filter in the old tank to > > get some of the bacteria, or should I do the drops of ammonia and some > > type of enzymes or purchased bacteria, and if so, where do I get it, > > and what is it called? I also read that I could put some fish food in > > the tank, and that would start he process. Which is the best, and > simplest? > > > > I can get the ammonia alert dial that goes in the tank. Do you > > recommend the test strips for testing the other things? > > Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. > > Thanks so much, > > Joanna > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com > <http://www.avast.com> > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 > > 11:59:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/11/2008 5:23:18 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > Tested on: 12/11/2008 5:55:35 AM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34358	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....

Yes, the bow front has the tendency to slightly magnify your view of the fish. Some people enjoy that and others prefer to see the fish just as they are. A matter of personal preference. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > > Well, I found another deal, on a 72 gal. bow front tank....What is your > views on the 72? I have never had a bow front tank, does it change > your view of fish or what? All opinions welcome.....And it is a great > deal.. > > Thanks, > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34359	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Bill, Check this out: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlidso&1229482210 This fellow is offering 10 rams starting at $35. I know you don't want that many, but he includes an e-mail address to correspond with him, so you might want to use that to get some information from him. Says he has plenty of rams. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > > Yes Lenny, > > All of that may be true to some extent.  But let's look at a few facts, as they are presented. > First, there is no supplier even remotely close to me that has these fish, much less the water > parameters I need, why?  Its well water!  They can't match this type of pH and even if they > could, they sure can't match my water hardness, none! > > Next, would they say or go through all of this with a potential new customer with whom they > want to sell even more goods too?  I think not.  A failure would most certainly guarantee the > lose of a good customer.  What business today can afford that? > > Finally, put it in writing?  Give me a brake here!  That's how the got Nixon and the Watergate > Tapes I believe.  Nobody puts anything in writing these days BUT they do guarantee the fish > to live delivery, provided their acclamation instructions are carried out properly.  Hint?  Part > of their acclamation instructions cover water parameters and that is in writing.. > > doing the best I can with what I've got! > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:10 AM > > > > > > > Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and have > them in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. > > I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unless > your current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work and > will give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when it > doesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming, > hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > > Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately > successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not > buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower > back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I > should not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I have > to! > > While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would > ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters > where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades! > > Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them around > here! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recently > contacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a > reasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with > shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the > rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! > > Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters: > pH 7.5 > GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES) > KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES) > Temperature 78-82 degrees > Now here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I do > have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. > Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a set > of two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 > teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons > of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on them > showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are looking > for. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set: > Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other > products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer your > hardness. > Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simply > said "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I would > assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then > take them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use the > chemicals she stated. > Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but in > considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem, > in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would be > doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then > the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are your > thoughts, please? > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34360	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....

Bow fronts are fine. The radius of the curve is so little that it has no noticeable effect. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank.... Well, I found another deal, on a 72 gal. bow front tank....What is your views on the 72? I have never had a bow front tank, does it change your view of fish or what? All opinions welcome.....And it is a great deal.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34361	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Liquid reagents are good for about 6 months to a year. Powdered and tablet reagents have a bit longer shelf life. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thanks! All of my bottles are from Oct of '06 or later, so they a year or more to go still. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:07 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Here's how to tell the expiration dates on most test kits.. including the > API. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt > levels. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to > get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I > lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, > but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and > returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll > be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water replaced with 1T of salt. > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The > "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written > that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any > expiration date anywhere. > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she > (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G > (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm > thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over > the summer. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the > need to question your present salt content and your methods with > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may > be out-dated). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus > Cure) > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as > energetic as yesterday morning > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it > in > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is > not > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > injurious > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's > still > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank > is > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent > PWC's > > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out > you > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, > and > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their > diet > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add > it. > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to > water > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough > water > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not > too > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that > much > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp > per > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > range. > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even > though > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, > if > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae > are > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they > can > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications while > there > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications > (and > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part > of > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > additional > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor > will > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > treatments. > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd > and > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was > off. > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline > with > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the > tank. > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of > the > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal > today, > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > > number of > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to > some > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in > their > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, > it > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > > (unless > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > > gallons > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with > 30 > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd > like to > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can > get > > a > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp > of > > salt > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate > to 4 > > 1/2 > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > > their > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > gallon > > (not 3 > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I > felt it > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > > measure > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > > limits > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > > seeming to > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > having > > the > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > somewhere in > > the > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just > what > > your > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > > adversely > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of > the > > > fungus. > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > > your > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this > is > > the > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of > other > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > > gradually > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > > tolerate > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > Anacharis -- > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of > several > > days > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both > your > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > > suddenly > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > > nitrite > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > nitrate > > was > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > > discrepency > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result > (or > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd > suggest > > you > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > > Those > > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s > Furan > > II, > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > > Buddies -- > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > > Green > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, > Fungal > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat > weak > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > > generally > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the > what we > > > were doing. > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved > at > > all > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems > to be > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of > her > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB > seems > > a > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > getting I > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money > for > > the > > > bigger > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the > water a > > > little (or > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > > enough > > > surface > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That > and > > live > > > plants are > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > > down. > > > Cooler > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven > will > > > start to turn > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't > do a > > PWC > > > yesterday) > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level > so > > I > > > can see > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > > look > > > into an > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right > now. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > > activated > > > carbon will > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon > also > > does > > > not remove > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just > an A- > > > carbon filter. > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old > home > > and > > > I would > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank > but it > > > simply isn't > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water > that > > > you'll be > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on > my > > > Betta tank was > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose > 1G > > or > > > 2G of water. > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise > syringe > > to > > > worry about > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter > for > > > simplicity... > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's > on a > > > weekly basis. > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst > in > > the > > > world, I > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for > the > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2752208 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2752208> or > > > a $5.00 - > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2754035 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2754035> > > > would last > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank > and > > > changing 25% > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > > years ... > > > probably much > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on > the > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > > water > > > but it's > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > getting > > the > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > online > > from > > > whomever I'm > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying > more > > for > > > shipping > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > > without > > > using the > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use > in > > the > > > future. Test > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor > will > > > break the > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > > through > > > a Brita > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things > (I'll > > > search down > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > > reading > > > is right > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > filter. I > > > don't add > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight > tap > > water > > > and > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > > aeration > > > helps Raven > > > > any. > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > product > > (which > > > one do you > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the > dechlor? > > If > > > you didn't > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see > the > > 0.5ppm > > > after > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your > tap > > > water is > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by > binding > > > chlorine and > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > > especially > > > when cycling > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully > cycled > > > tank, it will > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > handled by > > the > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system > but > > also > > > in other > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the > sickness > > > itself. The > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > > balance > > > with the > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > through > > > cycling issues, > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing > your > > > testing and > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish > needs > > lots > > > of O2 and if > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > This can be > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the > water > > level > > > a little.. > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water > causes > > more > > > surface > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > ingasing/outgasing > > > at the > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the > water. > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and > then > > > you'll have to > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles > > referenced > > > above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She > is > > > doing a lot of > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) > is > > > hiding under the > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > started > > > adding the salt. > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and > wants > > to > > > sit on the > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are > slowly > > > disappearing. > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: not > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is > still > > about > > > 25T in a > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > yesterday > > and > > > it's > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to > be a > > > male, I guess > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons > per > > > gallon) are used > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > goldfish... > > and > > > it's > > > > working. > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > > teaspoons > > > per gallon > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will > slowly > > > bring the > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I > started > > > typing my > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already > started > > > doing this.. > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water > just to > > > make sure your > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > teaspoons > > to > > > every five > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use > those > > 5G > > > buckets for > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > > bucket, > > > fill it to > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, > etc.) > > and > > > then slowly > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use > the > > > same mark to > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G > or 3G > > > mark is you > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > > spill a > > > lot when > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, > L" x > > W" x > > > H" and > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > yourself. > > For > > > your > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > > square/rectangular > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. > L" > > x W" > > > x H" = > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse > effect > > on the > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > > probably just > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > healthy > > was > > > more > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > > Sometimes > > > we have to > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely > kills > > off > > > all of the > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > > always > > > hate saying > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every > once > > in a > > > while, we > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > Goldfish > > have a > > > HUGE will > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > > conditions > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > > doesn't > > > give proper > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, > etc.. > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his > sleigh > > for > > > you... and > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > > difficult > > > to sex > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > harder to > > > tell but males > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill > covers > > and > > > the leading > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > > first > > > time and > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white > bumps > > just > > > on the > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that > means > > you > > > have a > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > > rename > > > him to > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the > fish > > to > > > have found > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > > with > > > them. LOL > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > > you'll > > > know what to > > > > look for. > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't > be > > 1.0 > > > again > > > > tomorrow > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was > putting > > in. > > > I just > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking > it > > didn't > > > feel like > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > > Today > > > when I did > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a > ruler > > and > > > it was > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to > count > > > gallons as I > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have > sworn > > my > > > dd told me > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > > yesterday > > > I removed > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > 27.5T. > > > Tonight I removed > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. > The > > fish > > > seem to be > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and > just > > not > > > add any salt > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level > for a > > 20 > > > gallon tank. > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the > extra > > > salt. It's > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > > goldfish. > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 10 > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita > filter): > > > pH:7.4; > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > readings, > > the > > > pH usually > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower > than > > 7.6 > > > and > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range > test > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > > combination > > > pack GH and > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having > the > > > four basics > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > goldfish > > > since your pH > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > > water. > > > As your > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, > then > > the > > > GH and KH > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in > pH > > after > > > a week, > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > > capital > > > H since it > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > > capitalized for > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > Alkalinity in > > > some test > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > > instead > > > of CH is > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > > hardness > > > and Karbonat > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, > thus > > KH. > > > A German > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually > 17.85 > > but > > > 18 for > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > > 180ppm, > > > that would > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. > Where > > do > > > I find test > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > > Detroit > > > area of > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the > summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of > the > > tail > > > and dorsal > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > disappearing. > > > Raven > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > getting > > dark > > > spots, > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but > still > > has > > > a good > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 20 > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > > water > > > with 1T per > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so > made > > mental > > > note to > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems > less > > > obvious and the > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > > white > > > areas, but > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant > as > > always. > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria > in > > there > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the > huge > > > bubbles that > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an > extreme > > bug- > > > eye look, > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > > grasses > > > with > > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe > I'll > > just > > > take a pair > > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least > not > > that > > > I've ever > > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with > decorations, > > > plastic plants, > > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start > clearing > > > up.. 7-10 days > > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how > bad > > it > > > was. Same > > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > > take a > > > while for > > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > > Tablespoons > > > which would > > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have > one > > more > > > dose to > > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > > total of > > > 90 > > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt > should > > start > > > to have a > > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let > us > > know > > > which day > > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with > the > > salt > > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of > 7.5 in > > > your tank. > > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT > let > > the > > > ammonia get > > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > > ammonia in > > > check. > > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it > with > > the > > > same level > > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > > before > > > adding the > > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a > blog > > > article on > > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a > gallon > > > bucket. Test > > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > > dechlor. > > > Test it > > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > > numbers > > > will likely > > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > > baseline. > > > Agitation > > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, > etc. > > > This baseline > > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate > > in > > > your tap > > > > water. > > > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > > groups. I > > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in > an > > email > > > and then I > > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when > I > > get > > > the Daily > > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > > replies > > > to a Daily > > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their > reply. > > I've > > > never seen > > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so > it > > > automatically > > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > > Daily > > > Digests. > > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > > take a > > > few seconds > > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except > for > > the > > > thread they > > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it > doesn't > > > show in reply > > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made > the > > > upgrades to the > > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group > the > > > replies > > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > > messages in > > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > > looking > > > for other > > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > > chronological order.. > > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > > longer > > > threads. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > > whitish > > > areas > > > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > > eyes. > > > This may be a > > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't > mess > > > with that, > > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be > reassured > > than > > > find her > > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 > messages > > in > > > a day, > > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get > the > > digest > > > version go > > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find > the > > new > > > messages. > > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before > getting > > the > > > digest > > > > version. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > > because > > > the fish > > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > > white > > > and the > > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > > looking > > > exhausted > > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I > was > > using > > > Rid-Ich+. > > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got > looking > > at > > > all those > > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I > decided > > to > > > try going > > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > > attendant > > > for help. I > > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > > customers > > > for rodent > > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or > pine > > > shavings, that > > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new > pet > > much > > > sooner, > > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > > keeping > > > them in > > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all > I > > had > > > time for. > > > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday > afternoon > > and > > > the only > > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > > sealant. > > > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night > (Sunday) > > before > > > going to > > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I > added > > > another 2T > > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to > the > > > replacement > > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is > a > > total > > > of 6T in > > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the > morning > > and > > > 20T tomorrow > > > > night. > > > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short > for > > > Carol Burnett) > > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > > other > > > two (Lucille > > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). > Her > > (?) > > > dorsal fin > > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even > though > > it > > > makes me > > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > > with > > > adding > > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading > and a > > > higher nitrite > > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not > complete. If > > > either the > > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your > current > > > nitrite level is > > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water > will > > > protect the fish > > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have > but > > you > > > need some to > > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. > Did > > you > > > ever add > > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would > go > > a > > > long way... > > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually > have > > an up > > > and > > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > > future, > > > it would > > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > > fish > > > were gone or > > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > > getting > > > stagnant. > > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully > there > > > weren't any > > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make > things > > > worse. You've > > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old > water > > > anyhow. > > > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds > (the > > > malachite > > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you > never > > > mentioned it. > > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to > work. > > Four > > > days isn't > > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a > major > > > effect. > > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > > says to > > > dose the > > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be > a > > nine > > > day > > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > > weaker > > > or what. > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > > options... > > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > Malachite > > > green: > > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and > protozoan > > > parasites. > > > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as > a > > stock > > > solution > > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of > the > > stock > > > solution > > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > > whatever > > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how > many > > mgs > > > of > > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > > solution > > > uses 20 > > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives > 20 > > mg > > > malachite per > > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 > minutes. > > > Higher dose only > > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates > with > > 1 > > > ml stock > > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated > every > > other > > > day for a > > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: > Repeat > > > every three > > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to > 1ml > > of > > > stock > > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose > should > > only > > > be used with > > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied > directly > > to > > > a wound, > > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > > fish's > > > eyes and > > > > gills. > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > > series of > > > 25% PWC's > > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > > medicinally > > > treated > > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > > remove > > > the rest. > > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned > treatment > > > will be the > > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish > rest in > > > this fresh > > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to > give > > > their > > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any > meds. > > > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > > antibiotic.. > > > were you > > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for > early > > > interdiction or > > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as > much > > help > > > with your > > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a > salt > > > treatment. > > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > > salt > > > but DO NOT > > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > > treatment unless > > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and > says > > it's > > > OK. It's > > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific > instructions > > from > > > a very > > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store > or > > pet > > > store > > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving > the > > > fish a 24 > > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > > treatment... > > > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons > per > > > gallon), which is > > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > > with a > > > dose of 1 > > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and > dilute > > this > > > salt in a > > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back > into > > the > > > tank, > > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you > already > > added > > > 6 > > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring > it > > up to > > > the > > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > > later, > > > add another > > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to > 0.2%. > > 12 > > > hours > > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > > teaspoons per > > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > > putting > > > your > > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for > your > > fish > > > to adjust > > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon), > > if > > > and/or when > > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), > you > > would > > > then add 15 > > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before > you > > add > > > it back > > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, > especially > > one > > > after the > > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give > the > > salt a > > > chance to > > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > > happening to the > > > > fish. > > > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > > better > > > and it's also > > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your > replies > > like > > > I did with > > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't > include > > my > > > previous > > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to > go > > to > > > the webpage > > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get > whatever > > this > > > is under > > > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing > a > > few > > > new white > > > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though > it > > seems > > > to have > > > > started on the body. > > > > > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages > mentioned > > that > > > I can't get > > > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got > > canning > > > salt, so I > > > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. > For a > > 30 G > > > tank, > > > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two > more > > > times 12 hours > > > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with > maintaining > > > therapeutic > > > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I > believe I > > did > > > see on the > > > > company website that they can be used together). The > problem > > is > > > that they > > > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if > possible." > > Is > > > that > > > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced > the > > tank > > > is, yet? > > > > > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of > AmQuel+Plus. > > I'll > > > retest > > > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 > ppm, > > > Nitrate: >10 & > > > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the > > Goldfish > > > are in now. > > > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and > > were > > > all gone by > > > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for > at > > least > > > another 6 > > > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a > job > > change > > > and fewer > > > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the > filter > > was > > > run for a > > > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter > was > > turned > > > off and my > > > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > > > components on eBay, > > > > but never got around to it. > > > > > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. > They > > > arrived in a > > > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than > that > > > back problems > > > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and > > they > > > needed a new > > > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them > for > > about > > > a year in > > > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, > but I > > > don't know > > > > when or how that one died. > > > > > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an > hour > > and > > > then > > > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our > tank. > > I > > > believe the > > > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no > > cleaning > > > was done. > > > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish > > arrived. > > > > > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a > new > > > sponge and > > > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter > in > > it. I > > > picked up a > > > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and > noticed > > that > > > it didn't > > > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't > have a > > > biofilter, but > > > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully > > there's > > > enough > > > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water > that > > came > > > with the > > > > goldfish. > > > > > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 > AM > > does > > > that to me > > > > sometimes, lol. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34362	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

According to the website Lenny linked to, below, API says that all their test reagents have a minimum shelf life of 3 years, some up to 5. Now I'm confused. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Liquid reagents are good for about 6 months to a year. Powdered and tablet reagents have a bit longer shelf life. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thanks! All of my bottles are from Oct of '06 or later, so they a year or more to go still. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:07 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Here's how to tell the expiration dates on most test kits.. including the > API. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt > levels. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to > get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I > lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, > but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and > returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll > be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water replaced with 1T of salt. > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The > "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written > that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any > expiration date anywhere. > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she > (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G > (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm > thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over > the summer. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the > need to question your present salt content and your methods with > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may > be out-dated). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus > Cure) > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as > energetic as yesterday morning > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it > in > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is > not > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > injurious > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's > still > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank > is > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent > PWC's > > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out > you > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, > and > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their > diet > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add > it. > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to > water > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough > water > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not > too > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that > much > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp > per > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > range. > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even > though > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, > if > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae > are > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they > can > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications while > there > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications > (and > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part > of > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > additional > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor > will > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > treatments. > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd > and > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was > off. > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline > with > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the > tank. > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of > the > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal > today, > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > > number of > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to > some > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in > their > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, > it > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > > (unless > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > > gallons > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with > 30 > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd > like to > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can > get > > a > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp > of > > salt > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate > to 4 > > 1/2 > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > > their > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > gallon > > (not 3 > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I > felt it > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > > measure > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > > limits > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > > seeming to > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > having > > the > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > somewhere in > > the > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just > what > > your > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > > adversely > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of > the > > > fungus. > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > > your > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this > is > > the > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of > other > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > > gradually > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > > tolerate > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > Anacharis -- > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of > several > > days > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both > your > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > > suddenly > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > > nitrite > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > nitrate > > was > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > > discrepency > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result > (or > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd > suggest > > you > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > > Those > > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s > Furan > > II, > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > > Buddies -- > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > > Green > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, > Fungal > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat > weak > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > > generally > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the > what we > > > were doing. > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved > at > > all > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems > to be > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of > her > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB > seems > > a > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > getting I > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money > for > > the > > > bigger > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the > water a > > > little (or > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > > enough > > > surface > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That > and > > live > > > plants are > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > > down. > > > Cooler > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven > will > > > start to turn > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't > do a > > PWC > > > yesterday) > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level > so > > I > > > can see > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > > look > > > into an > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right > now. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > > activated > > > carbon will > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon > also > > does > > > not remove > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just > an A- > > > carbon filter. > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old > home > > and > > > I would > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank > but it > > > simply isn't > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water > that > > > you'll be > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on > my > > > Betta tank was > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose > 1G > > or > > > 2G of water. > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise > syringe > > to > > > worry about > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter > for > > > simplicity... > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's > on a > > > weekly basis. > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst > in > > the > > > world, I > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for > the > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2752208 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2752208> or > > > a $5.00 - > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2754035 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2754035> > > > would last > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank > and > > > changing 25% > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > > years ... > > > probably much > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on > the > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > > water > > > but it's > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > getting > > the > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > online > > from > > > whomever I'm > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying > more > > for > > > shipping > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > > without > > > using the > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use > in > > the > > > future. Test > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor > will > > > break the > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > > through > > > a Brita > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things > (I'll > > > search down > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > > reading > > > is right > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > filter. I > > > don't add > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight > tap > > water > > > and > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > > aeration > > > helps Raven > > > > any. > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > product > > (which > > > one do you > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the > dechlor? > > If > > > you didn't > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see > the > > 0.5ppm > > > after > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your > tap > > > water is > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by > binding > > > chlorine and > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > > especially > > > when cycling > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully > cycled > > > tank, it will > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > handled by > > the > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system > but > > also > > > in other > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the > sickness > > > itself. The > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > > balance > > > with the > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > through > > > cycling issues, > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing > your > > > testing and > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish > needs > > lots > > > of O2 and if > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > This can be > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the > water > > level > > > a little.. > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water > causes > > more > > > surface > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > ingasing/outgasing > > > at the > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the > water. > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and > then > > > you'll have to > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles > > referenced > > > above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She > is > > > doing a lot of > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) > is > > > hiding under the > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > started > > > adding the salt. > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and > wants > > to > > > sit on the > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are > slowly > > > disappearing. > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: not > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is > still > > about > > > 25T in a > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > yesterday > > and > > > it's > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to > be a > > > male, I guess > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons > per > > > gallon) are used > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > goldfish... > > and > > > it's > > > > working. > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > > teaspoons > > > per gallon > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will > slowly > > > bring the > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I > started > > > typing my > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already > started > > > doing this.. > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water > just to > > > make sure your > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > teaspoons > > to > > > every five > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use > those > > 5G > > > buckets for > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > > bucket, > > > fill it to > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, > etc.) > > and > > > then slowly > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use > the > > > same mark to > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G > or 3G > > > mark is you > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > > spill a > > > lot when > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, > L" x > > W" x > > > H" and > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > yourself. > > For > > > your > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > > square/rectangular > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. > L" > > x W" > > > x H" = > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse > effect > > on the > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > > probably just > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > healthy > > was > > > more > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > > Sometimes > > > we have to > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely > kills > > off > > > all of the > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > > always > > > hate saying > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every > once > > in a > > > while, we > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > Goldfish > > have a > > > HUGE will > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > > conditions > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > > doesn't > > > give proper > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, > etc.. > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his > sleigh > > for > > > you... and > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > > difficult > > > to sex > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > harder to > > > tell but males > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill > covers > > and > > > the leading > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > > first > > > time and > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white > bumps > > just > > > on the > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that > means > > you > > > have a > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > > rename > > > him to > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the > fish > > to > > > have found > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > > with > > > them. LOL > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > > you'll > > > know what to > > > > look for. > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't > be > > 1.0 > > > again > > > > tomorrow > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was > putting > > in. > > > I just > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking > it > > didn't > > > feel like > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > > Today > > > when I did > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a > ruler > > and > > > it was > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to > count > > > gallons as I > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have > sworn > > my > > > dd told me > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > > yesterday > > > I removed > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > 27.5T. > > > Tonight I removed > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. > The > > fish > > > seem to be > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and > just > > not > > > add any salt > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level > for a > > 20 > > > gallon tank. > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the > extra > > > salt. It's > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > > goldfish. > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 10 > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita > filter): > > > pH:7.4; > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > readings, > > the > > > pH usually > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower > than > > 7.6 > > > and > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range > test > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > > combination > > > pack GH and > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having > the > > > four basics > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > goldfish > > > since your pH > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > > water. > > > As your > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, > then > > the > > > GH and KH > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in > pH > > after > > > a week, > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > > capital > > > H since it > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > > capitalized for > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > Alkalinity in > > > some test > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > > instead > > > of CH is > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > > hardness > > > and Karbonat > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, > thus > > KH. > > > A German > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually > 17.85 > > but > > > 18 for > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > > 180ppm, > > > that would > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. > Where > > do > > > I find test > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > > Detroit > > > area of > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the > summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of > the > > tail > > > and dorsal > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > disappearing. > > > Raven > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > getting > > dark > > > spots, > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but > still > > has > > > a good > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 20 > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > > water > > > with 1T per > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so > made > > mental > > > note to > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems > less > > > obvious and the > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > > white > > > areas, but > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant > as > > always. > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria > in > > there > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the > huge > > > bubbles that > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an > extreme > > bug- > > > eye look, > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > > grasses > > > with > > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe > I'll > > just > > > take a pair > > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least > not > > that > > > I've ever > > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with > decorations, > > > plastic plants, > > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start > clearing > > > up.. 7-10 days > > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how > bad > > it > > > was. Same > > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > > take a > > > while for > > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > > Tablespoons > > > which would > > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have > one > > more > > > dose to > > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > > total of > > > 90 > > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt > should > > start > > > to have a > > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let > us > > know > > > which day > > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with > the > > salt > > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of > 7.5 in > > > your tank. > > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT > let > > the > > > ammonia get > > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > > ammonia in > > > check. > > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it > with > > the > > > same level > > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > > before > > > adding the > > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a > blog > > > article on > > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a > gallon > > > bucket. Test > > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > > dechlor. > > > Test it > > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > > numbers > > > will likely > > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > > baseline. > > > Agitation > > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, > etc. > > > This baseline > > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate > > in > > > your tap > > > > water. > > > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > > groups. I > > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in > an > > email > > > and then I > > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when > I > > get > > > the Daily > > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > > replies > > > to a Daily > > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their > reply. > > I've > > > never seen > > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so > it > > > automatically > > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > > Daily > > > Digests. > > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > > take a > > > few seconds > > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except > for > > the > > > thread they > > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it > doesn't > > > show in reply > > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made > the > > > upgrades to the > > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group > the > > > replies > > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > > messages in > > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > > looking > > > for other > > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > > chronological order.. > > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > > longer > > > threads. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > > whitish > > > areas > > > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > > eyes. > > > This may be a > > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't > mess > > > with that, > > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be > reassured > > than > > > find her > > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 > messages > > in > > > a day, > > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get > the > > digest > > > version go > > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find > the > > new > > > messages. > > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before > getting > > the > > > digest > > > > version. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > > because > > > the fish > > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > > white > > > and the > > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > > looking > > > exhausted > > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I > was > > using > > > Rid-Ich+. > > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got > looking > > at > > > all those > > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I > decided > > to > > > try going > > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > > attendant > > > for help. I > > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > > customers > > > for rodent > > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or > pine > > > shavings, that > > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new > pet > > much > > > sooner, > > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > > keeping > > > them in > > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all > I > > had > > > time for. > > > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday > afternoon > > and > > > the only > > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > > sealant. > > > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night > (Sunday) > > before > > > going to > > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I > added > > > another 2T > > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to > the > > > replacement > > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is > a > > total > > > of 6T in > > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the > morning > > and > > > 20T tomorrow > > > > night. > > > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short > for > > > Carol Burnett) > > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > > other > > > two (Lucille > > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). > Her > > (?) > > > dorsal fin > > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even > though > > it > > > makes me > > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > > with > > > adding > > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading > and a > > > higher nitrite > > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not > complete. If > > > either the > > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your > current > > > nitrite level is > > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water > will > > > protect the fish > > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have > but > > you > > > need some to > > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. > Did > > you > > > ever add > > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would > go > > a > > > long way... > > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually > have > > an up > > > and > > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > > future, > > > it would > > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > > fish > > > were gone or > > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > > getting > > > stagnant. > > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully > there > > > weren't any > > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make > things > > > worse. You've > > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old > water > > > anyhow. > > > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds > (the > > > malachite > > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you > never > > > mentioned it. > > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to > work. > > Four > > > days isn't > > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a > major > > > effect. > > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > > says to > > > dose the > > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be > a > > nine > > > day > > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > > weaker > > > or what. > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > > options... > > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > Malachite > > > green: > > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and > protozoan > > > parasites. > > > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as > a > > stock > > > solution > > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of > the > > stock > > > solution > > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > > whatever > > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how > many > > mgs > > > of > > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > > solution > > > uses 20 > > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives > 20 > > mg > > > malachite per > > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 > minutes. > > > Higher dose only > > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates > with > > 1 > > > ml stock > > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated > every > > other > > > day for a > > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: > Repeat > > > every three > > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to > 1ml > > of > > > stock > > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose > should > > only > > > be used with > > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied > directly > > to > > > a wound, > > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > > fish's > > > eyes and > > > > gills. > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > > series of > > > 25% PWC's > > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > > medicinally > > > treated > > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > > remove > > > the rest. > > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned > treatment > > > will be the > > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish > rest in > > > this fresh > > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to > give > > > their > > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any > meds. > > > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > > antibiotic.. > > > were you > > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for > early > > > interdiction or > > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as > much > > help > > > with your > > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a > salt > > > treatment. > > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > > salt > > > but DO NOT > > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > > treatment unless > > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and > says > > it's > > > OK. It's > > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific > instructions > > from > > > a very > > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store > or > > pet > > > store > > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving > the > > > fish a 24 > > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > > treatment... > > > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons > per > > > gallon), which is > > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > > with a > > > dose of 1 > > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and > dilute > > this > > > salt in a > > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back > into > > the > > > tank, > > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you > already > > added > > > 6 > > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring > it > > up to > > > the > > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > > later, > > > add another > > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to > 0.2%. > > 12 > > > hours > > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > > teaspoons per > > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > > putting > > > your > > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for > your > > fish > > > to adjust > > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon), > > if > > > and/or when > > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), > you > > would > > > then add 15 > > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before > you > > add > > > it back > > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, > especially > > one > > > after the > > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give > the > > salt a > > > chance to > > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > > happening to the > > > > fish. > > > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > > better > > > and it's also > > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your > replies > > like > > > I did with > > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't > include > > my > > > previous > > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to > go > > to > > > the webpage > > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get > whatever > > this > > > is under > > > > control. It's day 4 of t<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34363	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: new tank/update

If they were the dip sticks, I guess it depends on which end you are holding. From now on, whenever you have them test your water, write down the actual results.. the numbers that are showing up on their tests. Without that, it's hard to know what the tests are showing. You can't trust them when they say it's OK since they called ammonia, pneumonia. LOL Look at the strips and charts yourself and write down the results. It really would be better, if you can afford it, to get your own Master Test Kit before getting the ammonia alert. The alerts should be considered a luxury where the Test Kit is a necessity. The API kit is under $20.00 at WalMart and it sounds like the store you are dealing with is PetsMart (ask if they'll match WalMart.com's price and bring the printed page from WalMart.com) but you haven't mentioned their name for some reason. It's Ok if it's a PetsMart and PetsMart will match their own online prices and some stores will even match competitors prices. I have one a block from my subdivision and shop there if they have a good price on what I need... but they aren't known for their good advice.. but there are exceptions (Allie). LOL Ooops.. I should have asked.. is the girl who called it pneumonia named Allie? LOL (Just kidding Allie ;-)) Yes, goldfish have a strong will to live but are also one of the most personable fish out there. They are like puppy dogs with their owners. Unfortunately, they are one of the most abused fish out there... usually due to the owner not realizing it. Many people abandon them or just force them to live in substandard conditions because the cost of upgrading to the proper sized tank, filter, etc., is not something they want to do or maybe they can't afford to do it. I blame this on the many bad books, websites, products/advertising and uninformed store employees. My local PetsMart still sells "Goldfish Bowls" and a "Goldfish Starter Kit" with a 10G tank and the picture on the box has five or six goldfish in the 10G tank. That kind of bad advertising and some of the prevalent bad info on the net and in many books perpetuates the mistreatment and usually unintentional abuse of goldfish. Of course, we also let couples pop out babies without any kind of parental training or responsibility either... or let them kill them if they decide they don't want the baby... which is even worse. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new tank/update I have run the Whisper filter media (from old tank) in the AC-70 filter (new tank) for a while, have vacuumed the gravel several times and done pwc in old tank, trying to keep temp. consistent. When they tested the water, the ammonia was the color of the second square from the left. I assumed the best was all the way to the left. I am trying to figure out just when to make the big move. Probably tomorrow afternoon. I am just wondering if I need to have one of those amm. monitors, or master test kits before I do move them? You mentioned watching the ammonia and nitrite and all other levels. I feel more confident with this method, but still, don't want to put them in danger. Most likely I will have to order the master test kit, and that could take a week, and I can't keep running to the pet store to get the water tested. I'll see what I can find tomorrow morning when I am out, near several pet shops. On the other hand, they have survived this long! And with me not knowing anything about fancy goldfish when I first rescued them, after they were abandoned, when some humans moved out and didn't take them! BTW, "the pneumonias" salesperson, admitted she was out of her depth on giving advice about the fish, and gave me the names of two others to ask for when I came back (if). All I bought from them was a thermometer for the tank, and the water dechlorinator. It is a chain, and from another store of theirs, I got the parts for the filter that I THOUGHT were missing. Of course, after they so kindly sold them to me from a filter that had been returned, I found one of the missing pieces. I still would have needed the propeller. Thanks, Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > As far as the fishless cycling, if you were starting up a new tank and > were planning on getting all new fish for the new tank, then fishless > cycling the new tank and using some of your old tank's filter media > would be a good idea but since you are simply upgrading the fish from > the smaller tank to the bigger tank, you can simply transfer as much > of the current ecosystem and biology from the old tank to the new tank > so the new tank starts off with an almost identical ecosystem as the old tank.. which is why I call it cloning. > > Since the AC-70 has a decent sized reservoir, you could leave the > charcoal out (since it's not needed as a permanent filter media > anyhow) and take the filter media (floss pad/sponge/etc.) from the > Whisper and fold it up and put it into the media holder of the AC-70. > You want the sponge block on the bottom then the "old" media, then the > biomax (stones) media as the top/last level of filtration. The AC > brand uses a series of channels so that the intake water is channeled > down to the bottom of the reservoir and then flows up through the > filter media before pouring out the waterfall... so you want the > biomax as the top/last layer so only filtered water is flowing over it > so it does not get clogged up with detritus since it will be a big part of the nitrifying bacteria colony in that filter system. > > If you are using a tap water dechlor, there's no need to let the water > stand for 24 hours before using it for a PWC... as long as you can > reasonable control the temperature of the tap water so that it's close > to your tank water temp, you can refill it directly from the tap after > siphoning out the old water during a PWC. This is how the Python Water Change System works. > > In all likelihood, the 0.5ppm level of ammonia in the new tank is from > the residual ammonia left over after treating tap water that is > disinfected with chloramine (chlorine and ammonia compound). The tap > water dechlor breaks the chloramine bond and the chlorine is broken down and the ammonia remains. > Usually, that low level of ammonia is immediately utilized by the > nitrifying bacteria in an established tank with no problems since a > 25% PWC would only introduce 0.125ppm of ammonia... a very low level > that usually won't even show up on an ammonia test kit. > > She was right about the plants utilizing this ammonia also but just > running your established filter on the new tank for a couple of > minutes would also have eaten up that level of ammonia... presuming it > was only the 0.5ppm residual level from chloramines. Without having > actual numbers, it's difficult to be certain so I'm just relying on my > experience in many other similar situations. > > No, the dip strips are NOT recommended. They are not very accurate or > they are inconsistent so you are never sure of their results. The API > or Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kits are both inexpensive (under > $20.00) and accurate and are available via Walmart.com with free > delivery to a local Walmart store... if you have one nearby. If you > don't, then the API kit is readily available online from many sites > and DrsFosterSmith.com had the best price the last time I compared > prices but then there would be a shipping charge. > > Be VERY careful about getting any advice or buying anything from that > store that referred to "the pneumonias". Check with us out here before > wasting your time or money with them. It's OK to use them for free > water testing right now but you really need to get your own Master > Test Kit. Relying on them for testing seems like an accident waiting > to happen. I would get the Master Test Kit before getting the alert > monitors. After your tank is set up, if you have extra money and want > to get the Ammonia and pH alerts, they are a convenience but really, > once the new tank is set up as I instructed and you test the water > using the Master Test Kit (or utilize the pet stores free testing > daily), you will see that things will likely be OK. I am currently > using one of the SeaChem pH alert monitors in my goldfish tank, more > as a comparison test to the Mardel pH monitor that I was using since I > got it for free.... and the pH monitor is OK to use in an established > tank to be sure your weekly maintenance schedule is sufficient to maintain the pH in a tank with a heavy bioload.. like goldfish tanks. > > Give us the details on all products that they have sold you so far. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 4:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new tank > > Thanks, I had to wash the things, because I bought everything from a > guy at a garage sale. > It was dusty, had old seaweed, and all that white crusty stuff. No > soap was used. > > The old filter is "second nature Whisper power filter" C. The new > filter is Aqua clear 70 with the three layers of sponge, charcoal, and stones. > > So, I don't do the steps for "Cycling a filter without fish" that I > read on your Blog? Okay. I am going to have to have a LOT of water > ready to do all the pw changes ever few hours! I have been letting the > tap water stand for at least 24 hours before using. I just bought some > water dechlolinator. ( that's what they recommended at store for the > elevated ammonia level) > > She also recommended just letting it filter for a few more days. so, i > did that and went back to test again. Actually, the second time I had > the water tested, it was the ammonia level was the same, but the > person kept referring to "the pneumonias." LOL She also recommended > that I put the plants in the new tank to help reduce the amm. level. > So I just did that a day or two ago, and only put one in, the other is floating in the old tank. > > I guess I have to get the ammonia alert thing before I do this to keep > an eye on the level. > At the pet store, they tested the water ( free) with the test strips. > Are they not recommended? They said the water in the old tank, which I > also had tested, looked okay on all parameters. Actually the old and > new tank waters were both good, only dif was the slightly high amm level in the new tank. > Thanks, > Joanna > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I hope you didn't wash things too much.. unless you are talking > > about the new gravel. It would have been best to leave the anacharis > > in the old tank until moving day. Any good live bacteria that would > > have been living on the anacharis has died off now without an > > ammonia source for a week... but that's only a minor issue. > > > > The best way of upgrading a tank is to clone the old tank into the > > new > tank. > > > > The good nitrifying bacteria live on the surface areas of the tank.. > > mostly in the filter media but also on the gravel, decorations, > > plants and even the glass. > > > > If the 20G tank is fully cycled, then what you want to do is > > transfer the filter and everything else that isn't tied down from > > the old tank to the new tank and then move the fish into the new > > tank. This might result in a mini-cycle but it shouldn't last more > > than a few days and not have the high ammonia/nitrite levels > > associated with starting from > scratch. > > > > Leave the new filter on the new tank and the old filter on the old > > tank with the fish. Gravel vacuum the old tank a couple of times > > while doing 25% PWC's (partial water changes) every couple of hours > > until the old tank has very similar or almost identical water > > parameters to the new tank. Once the gravel is almost completely > > clean of detritus, you are ready to make the move. At this point, > > move the decorations and floating plants to the new tank. Then move > > the fish and filter system to the new tank (You'll run both filters > > on the new tank for a couple of weeks... or more). All that should > > be left in the old tank is any planted plants (if any) and the > > gravel. Now, get a colander and a slotted spoon (or clean cat litter > > scoop) and start scooping up the gravel and filling up the colander. > > If you are using new gravel in the new tank, then you want to put > > the old gravel into several nylon stocking pouches (or other > > suitable mesh material) and pour the gravel into the pouches and add > > the pouches into separate areas of your new tank where they get > > water circulation.. in other words, not stacked up. If using the old > > gravel in the new tank, then each time you fill the colander, lift > > it and let the dirty water drain and then move the colander into the > > new tank and slowly pour it out. Yes, there will still be some dirty > > water coming off the gravel but it will settle or be > filtered soon. Repeat as necessary. > > > > Now test your water for ammonia and nitrites.. and all other test > > results and give us the numbers on a daily basis. Do a 25% PWC any > > time the ammonia or nitrite reaches 1.0ppm.. unless your pH is over > > 7.5, then do a PWC whenever the ammonia reaches 0.5ppm. Also add a > > pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning issues, > > should you > have a nitrite issue. > > > > Usually, when cloning an old tank into a new tank, I never get much > > of an ammonia or nitrite reading and do not even have to do a single > > PWC before the nitrifying bacteria handle any small level of ammonia > > or > nitrite. > > > > Once a week, if the water parameters are staying in good shape, > > remove one of the pouches of the old gravel (if applicable) and > > after 3-4 weeks, if you do not want both filters running on the tank > > (two filters on a 55G is a good thing), take the old filter > > cartridge/media from the smaller filter system and put it into the > > reservoir of the newer/bigger filter. Then you can remove the older/smaller filter system. > > > > Tell us your filter system brand and model and I could probably give > > you more details on proper maintenance for it. I also have a long > > article on my blog about Filter Maintenance and Cleaning that would > > give you some good info on keeping your filter properly cycled. This > > is really important on heavily stocked tanks.. like with a couple of > goldfish in a 55G tank. > > > > If you decide to get the little alerts, get the SeaChem brand and > > get the ammonia and the pH alerts. I have a recent blog article > > where I compared the SeaChem and Mardel alerts and the SeaChem brand > > is much more accurate and much less expensive. > > > > You should also get a Master Test Kit. Under $20.00 from WalMart.com > > and they have free shipping to your local store. Get either the API > > or the TetraTest-Laborette brand. The API is the better bargain even > > though it costs a little more up front, it will perform a LOT more > > tests since the bottles of reagent chemicals are larger. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of olesonjo > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank > > > > > > I am setting up a 55 gal tank for my fancy goldfish. They have been > > in a 20 g for as long as i have had them. I have washed everything, > > put the rinsed gravel in, the castles, water, some anacharis, the aerator. > > I got a new propeller for the filter. > > The water has been filtering for about a week. I have not put the > > fish in yet. I took a sample to the pet store to be tested, and guess what? > > everything is fine except the ammonia. So I broke down and read > > about the nitorgen cycling. > > Now, my question is, should I put the new filter in the old tank to > > get some of the bacteria, or should I do the drops of ammonia and > > some type of enzymes or purchased bacteria, and if so, where do I > > get it, and what is it called? I also read that I could put some > > fish food in the tank, and that would start he process. Which is the > > best, and > simplest? > > > > I can get the ammonia alert dial that goes in the tank. Do you > > recommend the test strips for testing the other things? > > Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. > > Thanks so much, > > Joanna > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > > > : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/10/2008 > > 11:59:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : Inbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 > 5:23:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> > : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 Tested on: 12/11/2008 > 5:55:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

I think, if you read that article completely, yes, the "shelf life" is 3 years or more but once you open the product and air gets into the product, the life expectancy goes down quickly. If your bottles are dated from 2006 and you just opened them recently, then they are still good for about a year. If you opened them in 2006, then they are more prone to giving inaccurate results and should be replaced. Make sure you shake all of them really good before using them... "shaken not stirred" (a lil James Bond lingo there.. lol).. even the ones that do not explicitly say that they need to be shaken should be to make sure you get accurate test results. I shake mine for at least 30 seconds.. a minute on the ones that say 30 seconds. Also tap the bottle on the side, etc., since some of them will settle into the bottom of the bottle so you might need to break this settling up so it goes back into solution. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? According to the website Lenny linked to, below, API says that all their test reagents have a minimum shelf life of 3 years, some up to 5. Now I'm confused. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Liquid reagents are good for about 6 months to a year. Powdered and tablet reagents have a bit longer shelf life. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thanks! All of my bottles are from Oct of '06 or later, so they a year or more to go still. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:07 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Here's how to tell the expiration dates on most test kits.. including the > API. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt > levels. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > > Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to > get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I > lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, > but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and > returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll > be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water replaced with 1T of salt. > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The > "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written > that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any > expiration date anywhere. > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she > (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G > (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm > thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over > the summer. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the > need to question your present salt content and your methods with > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may > be out-dated). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus > Cure) > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as > energetic as yesterday morning > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it > in > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is > not > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > injurious > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's > still > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank > is > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent > PWC's > > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out > you > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, > and > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their > diet > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add > it. > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to > water > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough > water > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not > too > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that > much > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp > per > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > range. > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even > though > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, > if > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae > are > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they > can > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications while > there > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications > (and > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part > of > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > additional > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor > will > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > treatments. > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd > and > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was > off. > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline > with > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the > tank. > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of > the > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal > today, > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > > number of > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to > some > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in > their > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, > it > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > > (unless > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > > gallons > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with > 30 > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd > like to > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can > get > > a > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp > of > > salt > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate > to 4 > > 1/2 > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > > their > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > gallon > > (not 3 > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I > felt it > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > > measure > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > > limits > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > > seeming to > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > having > > the > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > somewhere in > > the > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just > what > > your > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > > adversely > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of > the > > > fungus. > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > > your > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this > is > > the > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of > other > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > > gradually > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > > tolerate > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > Anacharis -- > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of > several > > days > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both > your > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > > suddenly > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > > nitrite > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > nitrate > > was > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > > discrepency > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result > (or > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd > suggest > > you > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > > Those > > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s > Furan > > II, > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > > Buddies -- > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > > Green > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, > Fungal > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat > weak > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > > generally > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the > what we > > > were doing. > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved > at > > all > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems > to be > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of > her > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB > seems > > a > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > getting I > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money > for > > the > > > bigger > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the > water a > > > little (or > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > > enough > > > surface > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That > and > > live > > > plants are > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > > down. > > > Cooler > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven > will > > > start to turn > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't > do a > > PWC > > > yesterday) > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level > so > > I > > > can see > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > > look > > > into an > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right > now. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > > activated > > > carbon will > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon > also > > does > > > not remove > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just > an A- > > > carbon filter. > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old > home > > and > > > I would > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank > but it > > > simply isn't > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water > that > > > you'll be > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on > my > > > Betta tank was > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose > 1G > > or > > > 2G of water. > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise > syringe > > to > > > worry about > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter > for > > > simplicity... > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's > on a > > > weekly basis. > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst > in > > the > > > world, I > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for > the > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2752208 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2752208> or > > > a $5.00 - > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2754035 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2754035> > > > would last > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank > and > > > changing 25% > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > > years ... > > > probably much > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on > the > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > > water > > > but it's > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > getting > > the > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > online > > from > > > whomever I'm > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying > more > > for > > > shipping > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > > without > > > using the > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use > in > > the > > > future. Test > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor > will > > > break the > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > > through > > > a Brita > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things > (I'll > > > search down > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > > reading > > > is right > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > filter. I > > > don't add > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight > tap > > water > > > and > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > > aeration > > > helps Raven > > > > any. > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > product > > (which > > > one do you > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the > dechlor? > > If > > > you didn't > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see > the > > 0.5ppm > > > after > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your > tap > > > water is > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by > binding > > > chlorine and > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > > especially > > > when cycling > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully > cycled > > > tank, it will > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > handled by > > the > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system > but > > also > > > in other > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the > sickness > > > itself. The > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > > balance > > > with the > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > through > > > cycling issues, > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing > your > > > testing and > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish > needs > > lots > > > of O2 and if > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > This can be > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the > water > > level > > > a little.. > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water > causes > > more > > > surface > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > ingasing/outgasing > > > at the > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the > water. > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and > then > > > you'll have to > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles > > referenced > > > above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She > is > > > doing a lot of > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) > is > > > hiding under the > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > started > > > adding the salt. > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and > wants > > to > > > sit on the > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are > slowly > > > disappearing. > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: not > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is > still > > about > > > 25T in a > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > yesterday > > and > > > it's > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to > be a > > > male, I guess > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons > per > > > gallon) are used > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > goldfish... > > and > > > it's > > > > working. > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > > teaspoons > > > per gallon > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will > slowly > > > bring the > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I > started > > > typing my > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already > started > > > doing this.. > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water > just to > > > make sure your > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > teaspoons > > to > > > every five > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use > those > > 5G > > > buckets for > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > > bucket, > > > fill it to > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, > etc.) > > and > > > then slowly > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use > the > > > same mark to > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G > or 3G > > > mark is you > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > > spill a > > > lot when > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, > L" x > > W" x > > > H" and > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > yourself. > > For > > > your > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > > square/rectangular > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. > L" > > x W" > > > x H" = > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse > effect > > on the > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > > probably just > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > healthy > > was > > > more > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > > Sometimes > > > we have to > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely > kills > > off > > > all of the > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > > always > > > hate saying > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every > once > > in a > > > while, we > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > Goldfish > > have a > > > HUGE will > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > > conditions > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > > doesn't > > > give proper > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, > etc.. > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his > sleigh > > for > > > you... and > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > > difficult > > > to sex > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > harder to > > > tell but males > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill > covers > > and > > > the leading > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > > first > > > time and > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white > bumps > > just > > > on the > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that > means > > you > > > have a > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > > rename > > > him to > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the > fish > > to > > > have found > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > > with > > > them. LOL > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > > you'll > > > know what to > > > > look for. > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't > be > > 1.0 > > > again > > > > tomorrow > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was > putting > > in. > > > I just > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking > it > > didn't > > > feel like > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > > Today > > > when I did > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a > ruler > > and > > > it was > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to > count > > > gallons as I > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have > sworn > > my > > > dd told me > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > > yesterday > > > I removed > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > 27.5T. > > > Tonight I removed > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. > The > > fish > > > seem to be > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and > just > > not > > > add any salt > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level > for a > > 20 > > > gallon tank. > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the > extra > > > salt. It's > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > > goldfish. > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 10 > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita > filter): > > > pH:7.4; > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > readings, > > the > > > pH usually > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower > than > > 7.6 > > > and > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range > test > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > > combination > > > pack GH and > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having > the > > > four basics > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > goldfish > > > since your pH > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > > water. > > > As your > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, > then > > the > > > GH and KH > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in > pH > > after > > > a week, > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > > capital > > > H since it > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > > capitalized for > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > Alkalinity in > > > some test > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > > instead > > > of CH is > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > > hardness > > > and Karbonat > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, > thus > > KH. > > > A German > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually > 17.85 > > but > > > 18 for > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > > 180ppm, > > > that would > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. > Where > > do > > > I find test > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > > Detroit > > > area of > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the > summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of > the > > tail > > > and dorsal > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > disappearing. > > > Raven > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > getting > > dark > > > spots, > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but > still > > has > > > a good > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 20 > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > > water > > > with 1T per > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so > made > > mental > > > note to > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems > less > > > obvious and the > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > > white > > > areas, but > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant > as > > always. > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria > in > > there > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the > huge > > > bubbles that > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an > extreme > > bug- > > > eye look, > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > > grasses > > > with > > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe > I'll > > just > > > take a pair > > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least > not > > that > > > I've ever > > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with > decorations, > > > plastic plants, > > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start > clearing > > > up.. 7-10 days > > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how > bad > > it > > > was. Same > > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > > take a > > > while for > > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > > Tablespoons > > > which would > > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have > one > > more > > > dose to > > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > > total of > > > 90 > > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt > should > > start > > > to have a > > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let > us > > know > > > which day > > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with > the > > salt > > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of > 7.5 in > > > your tank. > > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT > let > > the > > > ammonia get > > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > > ammonia in > > > check. > > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it > with > > the > > > same level > > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > > before > > > adding the > > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a > blog > > > article on > > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a > gallon > > > bucket. Test > > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > > dechlor. > > > Test it > > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > > numbers > > > will likely > > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > > baseline. > > > Agitation > > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, > etc. > > > This baseline > > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate > > in > > > your tap > > > > water. > > > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > > groups. I > > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in > an > > email > > > and then I > > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when > I > > get > > > the Daily > > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > > replies > > > to a Daily > > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their > reply. > > I've > > > never seen > > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so > it > > > automatically > > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > > Daily > > > Digests. > > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > > take a > > > few seconds > > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except > for > > the > > > thread they > > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it > doesn't > > > show in reply > > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made > the > > > upgrades to the > > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group > the > > > replies > > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > > messages in > > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > > looking > > > for other > > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > > chronological order.. > > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > > longer > > > threads. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > > whitish > > > areas > > > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > > eyes. > > > This may be a > > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't > mess > > > with that, > > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be > reassured > > than > > > find her > > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 > messages > > in > > > a day, > > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get > the > > digest > > > version go > > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find > the > > new > > > messages. > > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before > getting > > the > > > digest > > > > version. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > > because > > > the fish > > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > > white > > > and the > > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > > looking > > > exhausted > > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I > was > > using > > > Rid-Ich+. > > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got > looking > > at > > > all those > > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I > decided > > to > > > try going > > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > > attendant > > > for help. I > > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > > customers > > > for rodent > > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or > pine > > > shavings, that > > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new > pet > > much > > > sooner, > > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > > keeping > > > them in > > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all > I > > had > > > time for. > > > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday > afternoon > > and > > > the only > > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > > sealant. > > > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night > (Sunday) > > before > > > going to > > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I > added > > > another 2T > > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to > the > > > replacement > > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is > a > > total > > > of 6T in > > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the > morning > > and > > > 20T tomorrow > > > > night. > > > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short > for > > > Carol Burnett) > > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > > other > > > two (Lucille > > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). > Her > > (?) > > > dorsal fin > > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even > though > > it > > > makes me > > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > > with > > > adding > > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading > and a > > > higher nitrite > > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not > complete. If > > > either the > > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your > current > > > nitrite level is > > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water > will > > > protect the fish > > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have > but > > you > > > need some to > > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. > Did > > you > > > ever add > > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would > go > > a > > > long way... > > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually > have > > an up > > > and > > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > > future, > > > it would > > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > > fish > > > were gone or > > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > > getting > > > stagnant. > > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully > there > > > weren't any > > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make > things > > > worse. You've > > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old > water > > > anyhow. > > > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds > (the > > > malachite > > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you > never > > > mentioned it. > > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to > work. > > Four > > > days isn't > > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a > major > > > effect. > > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > > says to > > > dose the > > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be > a > > nine > > > day > > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > > weaker > > > or what. > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > > options... > > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > > Malachite > > > green: > > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and > protozoan > > > parasites. > > > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as > a > > stock > > > solution > > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of > the > > stock > > > solution > > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > > whatever > > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how > many > > mgs > > > of > > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > > solution > > > uses 20 > > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives > 20 > > mg > > > malachite per > > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 > minutes. > > > Higher dose only > > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates > with > > 1 > > > ml stock > > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated > every > > other > > > day for a > > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: > Repeat > > > every three > > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to > 1ml > > of > > > stock > > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose > should > > only > > > be used with > > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied > directly > > to > > > a wound, > > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > > fish's > > > eyes and > > > > gills. > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > > series of > > > 25% PWC's > > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > > medicinally > > > treated > > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > > remove > > > the rest. > > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned > treatment > > > will be the > > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish > rest in > > > this fresh > > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to > give > > > their > > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any > meds. > > > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > > antibiotic.. > > > were you > > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for > early > > > interdiction or > > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as > much > > help > > > with your > > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a > salt > > > treatment. > > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > > salt > > > but DO NOT > > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > > treatment unless > > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and > says > > it's > > > OK. It's > > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific > instructions > > from > > > a very > > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store > or > > pet > > > store > > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving > the > > > fish a 24 > > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > > treatment... > > > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons > per > > > gallon), which is > > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > > with a > > > dose of 1 > > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and > dilute > > this > > > salt in a > > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back > into > > the > > > tank, > > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you > already > > added > > > 6 > > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring > it > > up to > > > the > > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > > later, > > > add another > > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to > 0.2%. > > 12 > > > hours > > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > > teaspoons per > > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > > putting > > > your > > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for > your > > fish > > > to adjust > > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon), > > if > > > and/or when > > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), > you > > would > > > then add 15 > > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before > you > > add > > > it back > > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, > especially > > one > > > after the > > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give > the > > salt a > > > chance to > > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > > happening to the > > > > fish. > > > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > > better > > > and it's also > > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your > replies > > like > > > I did with > > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't > include > > my > > > previous > > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to > go > > to > > > the webpage > > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get > whatever > > this > > > is under > > > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing > a > > few > > > new white > > > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though > it > > seems > > > to have > > > > started on the body. > > > > > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages > mentioned > > that > > > I can't get > > > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got > > canning > > > salt, so I > > > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. > For a > > 30 G > > > tank, > > > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two > more > > > times 12 hours > > > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with > maintaining > > > therapeutic > > > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I > believe I > > did > > > see on the > > > > company website that they can be used together). The > problem > > is > > > that they > > > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if > possible." > > Is > > > that > > > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced > the > > tank > > > is, yet? > > > > > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of > AmQuel+Plus. > > I'll > > > retest > > > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 > ppm, > > > Nitrate: >10 & > > > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the > > Goldfish > > > are in now. > > > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and > > were > > > all gone by > > > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for > at > > least > > > another 6 > > > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a > job > > change > > > and fewer > > > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the > filter > > was > > > run for a > > > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter > was > > turned > > > off and my > > > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > > > components on eBay, > > > > but never got around to it. > > > > > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. > They > > > arrived in a > > > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than > that > > > back problems > > > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and > > they > > > needed a new > > > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them > for > > about > > > a year in > > > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a four<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34365	From: bill1433	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

I think I found the help I need Steve.  I just have to wait on Santa and that tank! This is like being a little kid again!  I've waited a long time for those Rams.   Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 10:46 PM Bill, Check this out: http://www.aquabid. com/cgi-bin/ auction/auction. cgi?fwcichlidso& 1229482210 This fellow is offering 10 rams starting at $35. I know you don't want that many, but he includes an e-mail address to correspond with him, so you might want to use that to get some information from him. Says he has plenty of rams. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > > Yes Lenny, > > All of that may be true to some extent.  But let's look at a few facts, as they are presented. > First, there is no supplier even remotely close to me that has these fish, much less the water > parameters I need, why?  Its well water!  They can't match this type of pH and even if they > could, they sure can't match my water hardness, none! > > Next, would they say or go through all of this with a potential new customer with whom they > want to sell even more goods too?  I think not.  A failure would most certainly guarantee the > lose of a good customer.  What business today can afford that? > > Finally, put it in writing?  Give me a brake here!  That's how the got Nixon and the Watergate > Tapes I believe.  Nobody puts anything in writing these days BUT they do guarantee the fish > to live delivery, provided their acclamation instructions are carried out properly.  Hint?  Part > of their acclamation instructions cover water parameters and that is in writing.. > > doing the best I can with what I've got! > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:10 AM > > > > > > > Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and have > them in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. > > I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... unless > your current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice will work and > will give you a full refund for the fish and all the chemicals if/when it > doesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet they'll start hemming, > hawing and crawfishing like political friends of Blago right now! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > > Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately > successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not > buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just lower > back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all that I > should not have "played in the water" in the first place. But now I have > to! > > While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I would > ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water parameters > where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades! > > Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them around > here! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I recently > contacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and at a > reasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the deal, with > shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the > rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! > > Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters: > pH 7.5 > GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES) > KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES) > Temperature 78-82 degrees > Now here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I do > have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. > Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends a set > of two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # 198597) 1/2 > teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons > of water. Use them in conjunction with each other. There are charts on them > showing you how long to use it and amounts for the target pH you are looking > for. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set: > Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other > products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and buffer your > hardness. > Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she simply > said "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also said I would > assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new tank, you will then > take them back down to your parameters, I said yes. She said to use the > chemicals she stated. > Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination but in > considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It would seem, > in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be stated that I would be > doing this in a new tank and after the required readings are reached, then > the use of One and Only to cycle and prepare for the fish. What are your > thoughts, please? > > Bill > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34366	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....

Thanks for the views on the Bow Tank, I am close to cutting a deal with him, it comes with a Marineland 350 canister filter and a bunch of other stuff, not to mention a great looking stand.... Thanks, Jim In a message dated 12/11/2008 9:59:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Bow fronts are fine. The radius of the curve is so little that it has no noticeable effect. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:01 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank.... Well, I found another deal, on a 72 gal. bow front tank....What is your views on the 72? I have never had a bow front tank, does it change your view of fish or what? All opinions welcome.....of fish or what? All opi Thanks, Jim **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Breaking The Rules!

Sounds like you're keeping company with Cleveland, L.A., Anaheim and St. Louis... waiting for them Rams! ;-) But nobody has waited as long as us N'Awlins Saints fans. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! I think I found the help I need Steve. I just have to wait on Santa and that tank! This is like being a little kid again! I've waited a long time for those Rams. Bill --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 10:46 PM Bill, Check this out: http://www.aquabid. com/cgi-bin/ auction/auction. cgi?fwcichlidso& 1229482210 This fellow is offering 10 rams starting at $35. I know you don't want that many, but he includes an e-mail address to correspond with him, so you might want to use that to get some information from him. Says he has plenty of rams. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > > Yes Lenny, > > All of that may be true to some extent. But let's look at a few facts, as they are presented. > First, there is no supplier even remotely close to me that has these > fish, much less the water parameters I need, why? Its well water! > They can't match this type of pH and even if they could, they sure can't match my water hardness, none! > > Next, would they say or go through all of this with a potential new > customer with whom they want to sell even more goods too? I think > not. A failure would most certainly guarantee the lose of a good customer. What business today can afford that? > > Finally, put it in writing? Give me a brake here! That's how the got > Nixon and the Watergate Tapes I believe. Nobody puts anything in > writing these days BUT they do guarantee the fish to live delivery, > provided their acclamation instructions are carried out properly. Hint? Part of their acclamation instructions cover water parameters and that is in writing.. > > doing the best I can with what I've got! > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 11:10 AM > > > > > > > Or you could check around for a seller that has the fish you want and > have them in the kind of water you have... or at least closer to it. > > I would do that rather than try to acclimate the fish that much.... > unless your current proposed seller will guarantee that their advice > will work and will give you a full refund for the fish and all the > chemicals if/when it doesn't. Ask them to put it in writing... I bet > they'll start hemming, hawing and crawfishing like political friends > of Blago right now! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:31 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breaking The Rules! > > Sometime ago I tried changing my water parameters, I was moderately > successful but I could not hold the settings I wish to keep (I did not > buffer with crushed coral at this time) so in the end, I had to just > lower back down to the water baseline parameters I had and bow to all > that I should not have "played in the water" in the first place. But > now I have to! > > While doing all of this, it was also with the understanding that I > would ALSO be trying to match the same parameters of the LPS water > parameters where I was buying the fish (Wal-Mart)! This is NOW the case in spades! > > Most of you know I want to keep Blue Rams. (No you can't order them > around here! People think Blue Rams are trucks)! To that end, I > recently contacted an on-line shipper. Yes they had the Blue Rams and > at a reasonable price. Since I also wanted some Bronze Cory cats the > deal, with shipping, seemed quite do-able until I remembered the > rules------- --------- --Water Parameters-- --what are theirs! > > Ah Ha! Now we have trouble! Here are their water parameters: > pH 7.5 > GH 200-400 PPM ( 11-22 DEGREES) > KH 50-100 ppm ( 3-6 DEGREES) > Temperature 78-82 degrees > Now here are Bill's readings: pH 5.5 GH 1 KH barely readable but I do > have the temperature covered at 80 degrees. > Getting on the phone with their staff Marine Biologist, she recommends > a set of two possible combinations, the first: Acid buffer ( item # > 198597) 1/2 teaspoon and an Alkaline buffer ( item # 198745) 1 > teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. Use them in conjunction with each > other. There are charts on them showing you how long to use it and > amounts for the target pH you are looking for. The item numbers are for products they sell. And the second set: > Kent Marine's pH Stable and SeaChem's Neutral Regulator are two other > products that you would also be able to use to raise your pH and > buffer your hardness. > Now when I asked about the baking soda and crushed coral buffer, she > simply said "How fast do you want to do all of this"? And she also > said I would assume that after the fish are acclimated to the new > tank, you will then take them back down to your parameters, I said > yes. She said to use the chemicals she stated. > Folks, obviously, there are many roads to get to the same destination > but in considering all, which is the best and safest for the fish? It > would seem, in my case, the chemicals win out. It should also be > stated that I would be doing this in a new tank and after the required > readings are reached, then the use of One and Only to cycle and > prepare for the fish. What are your thoughts, please? > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34368	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

OK, yeah, I just opened it when the fish arrived, about 2 weeks ago? My dd had the kit for a year, but never used it. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 1:16 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? I think, if you read that article completely, yes, the "shelf life" is 3 years or more but once you open the product and air gets into the product, the life expectancy goes down quickly. If your bottles are dated from 2006 and you just opened them recently, then they are still good for about a year. If you opened them in 2006, then they are more prone to giving inaccurate results and should be replaced. Make sure you shake all of them really good before using them... "shaken not stirred" (a lil James Bond lingo there.. lol).. even the ones that do not explicitly say that they need to be shaken should be to make sure you get accurate test results. I shake mine for at least 30 seconds.. a minute on the ones that say 30 seconds. Also tap the bottle on the side, etc., since some of them will settle into the bottom of the bottle so you might need to break this settling up so it goes back into solution. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? According to the website Lenny linked to, below, API says that all their test reagents have a minimum shelf life of 3 years, some up to 5. Now I'm confused. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:01 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Liquid reagents are good for about 6 months to a year. Powdered and tablet reagents have a bit longer shelf life. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thanks! All of my bottles are from Oct of '06 or later, so they a year or more to go still. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:07 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Here's how to tell the expiration dates on most test kits.. including the > API. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt > levels. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > > Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to > get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I > lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, > but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and > returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll > be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water replaced with 1T of salt. > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The > "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written > that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any > expiration date anywhere. > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she > (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G > (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm > thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over > the summer. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the > need to question your present salt content and your methods with > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may > be out-dated). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus > Cure) > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as > energetic as yesterday morning > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it > in > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is > not > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > injurious > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's > still > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank > is > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent > PWC's > > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out > you > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, > and > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their > diet > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add > it. > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to > water > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough > water > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not > too > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that > much > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp > per > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > range. > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even > though > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, > if > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae > are > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they > can > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications while > there > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications > (and > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part > of > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > additional > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor > will > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > treatments. > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd > and > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was > off. > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline > with > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the > tank. > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of > the > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal > today, > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > > number of > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to > some > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in > their > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, > it > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > > (unless > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > > gallons > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with > 30 > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd > like to > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can > get > > a > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp > of > > salt > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate > to 4 > > 1/2 > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > > their > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > gallon > > (not 3 > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I > felt it > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > > measure > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > > limits > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > > seeming to > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > having > > the > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > somewhere in > > the > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just > what > > your > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > > adversely > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of > the > > > fungus. > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > > your > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this > is > > the > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of > other > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > > gradually > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > > tolerate > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > Anacharis -- > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of > several > > days > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both > your > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > > suddenly > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > > nitrite > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > nitrate > > was > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > > discrepency > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result > (or > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd > suggest > > you > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > > Those > > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s > Furan > > II, > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > > Buddies -- > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > > Green > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, > Fungal > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat > weak > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > > generally > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the > what we > > > were doing. > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved > at > > all > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems > to be > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of > her > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB > seems > > a > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > getting I > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money > for > > the > > > bigger > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the > water a > > > little (or > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > > enough > > > surface > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That > and > > live > > > plants are > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > > down. > > > Cooler > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven > will > > > start to turn > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't > do a > > PWC > > > yesterday) > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level > so > > I > > > can see > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > > look > > > into an > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right > now. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > > activated > > > carbon will > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon > also > > does > > > not remove > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just > an A- > > > carbon filter. > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old > home > > and > > > I would > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank > but it > > > simply isn't > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water > that > > > you'll be > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on > my > > > Betta tank was > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose > 1G > > or > > > 2G of water. > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise > syringe > > to > > > worry about > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter > for > > > simplicity... > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's > on a > > > weekly basis. > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst > in > > the > > > world, I > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for > the > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2752208 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2752208> or > > > a $5.00 - > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2754035 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2754035> > > > would last > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank > and > > > changing 25% > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > > years ... > > > probably much > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on > the > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > > water > > > but it's > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > getting > > the > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > online > > from > > > whomever I'm > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying > more > > for > > > shipping > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > > without > > > using the > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use > in > > the > > > future. Test > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor > will > > > break the > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > > through > > > a Brita > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things > (I'll > > > search down > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > > reading > > > is right > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > filter. I > > > don't add > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight > tap > > water > > > and > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > > aeration > > > helps Raven > > > > any. > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > product > > (which > > > one do you > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the > dechlor? > > If > > > you didn't > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see > the > > 0.5ppm > > > after > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your > tap > > > water is > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by > binding > > > chlorine and > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > > especially > > > when cycling > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully > cycled > > > tank, it will > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > handled by > > the > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system > but > > also > > > in other > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the > sickness > > > itself. The > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > > balance > > > with the > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > through > > > cycling issues, > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing > your > > > testing and > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish > needs > > lots > > > of O2 and if > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > This can be > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the > water > > level > > > a little.. > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water > causes > > more > > > surface > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > ingasing/outgasing > > > at the > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the > water. > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and > then > > > you'll have to > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles > > referenced > > > above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She > is > > > doing a lot of > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) > is > > > hiding under the > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > started > > > adding the salt. > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and > wants > > to > > > sit on the > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are > slowly > > > disappearing. > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: not > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is > still > > about > > > 25T in a > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > yesterday > > and > > > it's > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to > be a > > > male, I guess > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons > per > > > gallon) are used > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > goldfish... > > and > > > it's > > > > working. > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > > teaspoons > > > per gallon > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will > slowly > > > bring the > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I > started > > > typing my > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already > started > > > doing this.. > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water > just to > > > make sure your > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > teaspoons > > to > > > every five > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use > those > > 5G > > > buckets for > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > > bucket, > > > fill it to > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, > etc.) > > and > > > then slowly > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use > the > > > same mark to > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G > or 3G > > > mark is you > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > > spill a > > > lot when > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, > L" x > > W" x > > > H" and > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > yourself. > > For > > > your > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > > square/rectangular > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. > L" > > x W" > > > x H" = > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse > effect > > on the > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > > probably just > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > healthy > > was > > > more > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > > Sometimes > > > we have to > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely > kills > > off > > > all of the > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > > always > > > hate saying > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every > once > > in a > > > while, we > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > Goldfish > > have a > > > HUGE will > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > > conditions > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > > doesn't > > > give proper > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, > etc.. > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his > sleigh > > for > > > you... and > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > > difficult > > > to sex > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > harder to > > > tell but males > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill > covers > > and > > > the leading > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > > first > > > time and > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white > bumps > > just > > > on the > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that > means > > you > > > have a > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > > rename > > > him to > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the > fish > > to > > > have found > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > > with > > > them. LOL > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > > you'll > > > know what to > > > > look for. > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't > be > > 1.0 > > > again > > > > tomorrow > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was > putting > > in. > > > I just > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking > it > > didn't > > > feel like > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > > Today > > > when I did > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a > ruler > > and > > > it was > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to > count > > > gallons as I > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have > sworn > > my > > > dd told me > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > > yesterday > > > I removed > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > 27.5T. > > > Tonight I removed > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. > The > > fish > > > seem to be > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and > just > > not > > > add any salt > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level > for a > > 20 > > > gallon tank. > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the > extra > > > salt. It's > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > > goldfish. > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 10 > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita > filter): > > > pH:7.4; > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > readings, > > the > > > pH usually > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower > than > > 7.6 > > > and > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range > test > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > > combination > > > pack GH and > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having > the > > > four basics > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > goldfish > > > since your pH > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > > water. > > > As your > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, > then > > the > > > GH and KH > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in > pH > > after > > > a week, > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > > capital > > > H since it > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > > capitalized for > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > Alkalinity in > > > some test > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > > instead > > > of CH is > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > > hardness > > > and Karbonat > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, > thus > > KH. > > > A German > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually > 17.85 > > but > > > 18 for > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > > 180ppm, > > > that would > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. > Where > > do > > > I find test > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > > Detroit > > > area of > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the > summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of > the > > tail > > > and dorsal > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > disappearing. > > > Raven > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > getting > > dark > > > spots, > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but > still > > has > > > a good > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 20 > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > > water > > > with 1T per > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so > made > > mental > > > note to > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems > less > > > obvious and the > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > > white > > > areas, but > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant > as > > always. > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria > in > > there > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the > huge > > > bubbles that > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an > extreme > > bug- > > > eye look, > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > > grasses > > > with > > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe > I'll > > just > > > take a pair > > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least > not > > that > > > I've ever > > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with > decorations, > > > plastic plants, > > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start > clearing > > > up.. 7-10 days > > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how > bad > > it > > > was. Same > > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > > take a > > > while for > > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > > Tablespoons > > > which would > > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have > one > > more > > > dose to > > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > > total of > > > 90 > > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt > should > > start > > > to have a > > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let > us > > know > > > which day > > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with > the > > salt > > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of > 7.5 in > > > your tank. > > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT > let > > the > > > ammonia get > > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > > ammonia in > > > check. > > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it > with > > the > > > same level > > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > > before > > > adding the > > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a > blog > > > article on > > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a > gallon > > > bucket. Test > > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > > dechlor. > > > Test it > > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > > numbers > > > will likely > > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > > baseline. > > > Agitation > > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, > etc. > > > This baseline > > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate > > in > > > your tap > > > > water. > > > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > > groups. I > > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in > an > > email > > > and then I > > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when > I > > get > > > the Daily > > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > > replies > > > to a Daily > > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their > reply. > > I've > > > never seen > > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so > it > > > automatically > > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > > Daily > > > Digests. > > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > > take a > > > few seconds > > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except > for > > the > > > thread they > > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it > doesn't > > > show in reply > > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made > the > > > upgrades to the > > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group > the > > > replies > > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > > messages in > > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > > looking > > > for other > > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > > chronological order.. > > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > > longer > > > threads. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > > whitish > > > areas > > > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > > eyes. > > > This may be a > > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't > mess > > > with that, > > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be > reassured > > than > > > find her > > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 > messages > > in > > > a day, > > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get > the > > digest > > > version go > > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find > the > > new > > > messages. > > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before > getting > > the > > > digest > > > > version. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > > because > > > the fish > > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > > white > > > and the > > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > > looking > > > exhausted > > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I > was > > using > > > Rid-Ich+. > > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got > looking > > at > > > all those > > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I > decided > > to > > > try going > > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > > attendant > > > for help. I > > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > > customers > > > for rodent > > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or > pine > > > shavings, that > > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new > pet > > much > > > sooner, > > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > > keeping > > > them in > > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all > I > > had > > > time for. > > > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday > afternoon > > and > > > the only > > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > > sealant. > > > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night > (Sunday) > > before > > > going to > > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I > added > > > another 2T > > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to > the > > > replacement > > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is > a > > total > > > of 6T in > > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the > morning > > and > > > 20T tomorrow > > > > night. > > > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short > for > > > Carol Burnett) > > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > > other > > > two (Lucille > > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). > Her > > (?) > > > dorsal fin > > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even > though > > it > > > makes me > > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > > with > > > adding > > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading > and a > > > higher nitrite > > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not > complete. If > > > either the > > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your > current > > > nitrite level is > > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water > will > > > protect the fish > > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have > but > > you > > > need some to > > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. > Did > > you > > > ever add > > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would > go > > a > > > long way... > > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually > have > > an up > > > and > > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > > future, > > > it would > > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > > fish > > > were gone or > > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > > getting > > > stagnant. > > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully > there > > > weren't any > > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make > things > > > worse. You've > > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old > water > > > anyhow. > > > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds > (the > > > malachite > > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you > never > > > mentioned it. > > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to > work. > > Four > > > days isn't > > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a > major > > > effect. > > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > > says to > > > dose the > > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be > a > > nine > > > day > > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > > weaker > > > or what. > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > > options... > > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > > Malachite > > > green: > > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and > protozoan > > > parasites. > > > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as > a > > stock > > > solution > > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of > the > > stock > > > solution > > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > > whatever > > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how > many > > mgs > > > of > > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > > solution > > > uses 20 > > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives > 20 > > mg > > > malachite per > > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 > minutes. > > > Higher dose only > > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates > with > > 1 > > > ml stock > > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated > every > > other > > > day for a > > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: > Repeat > > > every three > > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to > 1ml > > of > > > stock > > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose > should > > only > > > be used with > > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied > directly > > to > > > a wound, > > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > > fish's > > > eyes and > > > > gills. > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > > series of > > > 25% PWC's > > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > > medicinally > > > treated > > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > > remove > > > the rest. > > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned > treatment > > > will be the > > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish > rest in > > > this fresh > > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to > give > > > their > > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any > meds. > > > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > > antibiotic.. > > > were you > > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for > early > > > interdiction or > > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as > much > > help > > > with your > > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a > salt > > > treatment. > > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > > salt > > > but DO NOT > > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > > treatment unless > > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and > says > > it's > > > OK. It's > > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific > instructions > > from > > > a very > > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store > or > > pet > > > store > > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving > the > > > fish a 24 > > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > > treatment... > > > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons > per > > > gallon), which is > > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > > with a > > > dose of 1 > > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and > dilute > > this > > > salt in a > > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back > into > > the > > > tank, > > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you > already > > added > > > 6 > > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring > it > > up to > > > the > > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > > later, > > > add another > > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to > 0.2%. > > 12 > > > hours > > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > > teaspoons per > > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > > putting > > > your > > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for > your > > fish > > > to adjust > > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon), > > if > > > and/or when > > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), > you > > would > > > then add 15 > > > > or 30 te<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34369	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....

i have a 72 gallon bow front and it is a very nice tank. there is a very small amount of distortion,  but it is more than made up by the spaciousness of the tank. even though it is only 17 gallons more than a 55, it seems much larger! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jpateson@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:57:32 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank.... Thanks for the views on the Bow Tank, I am close to cutting a deal with him, it comes with a Marineland 350 canister filter and a bunch of other stuff, not to mention a great looking stand.... Thanks, Jim In a message dated 12/11/2008 9:59:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Bow fronts are fine. The radius of the curve is so little that it has no noticeable effect. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _ http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ ( http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ ) (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ) ] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:01 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ) Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank.... Well, I found another deal, on a 72 gal. bow front tank....What is your views on the 72? I have never had a bow front tank, does it change your view of fish or what? All opinions welcome.....of fish or what? All opi Thanks, Jim **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. ( http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010 ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34370	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....

Thanks, it is an impressive looking tank and I'm thinking of doing just chiclid's in it....I was worried about the distortion though.. Thanks, Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Boyle <synoman1@...> wrote: > > > >  i have a 72 gallon bow front and it is a very nice tank. there is a very small amount of distortion,  but it is more than made up by the spaciousness of the tank. even though it is only 17 gallons more than a 55, it seems much larger! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jpateson@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:57:32 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank.... > > > > > > > Thanks for the views on the Bow Tank, I am close to cutting a deal with him, > it comes with a Marineland 350 canister filter and a bunch of other stuff, > not to mention a great looking stand.... > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > In a message dated 12/11/2008 9:59:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, > GoldLenny@... writes: > > Bow fronts are fine. The radius of the curve is so little that it has no > noticeable effect. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - _ http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ ( http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ ) > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ) > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ) ] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:01 PM > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ) > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank.... > > Well, I found another deal, on a 72 gal. bow front tank....What is your > views on the 72? I have never had a bow front tank, does it change your view > of fish or what? All opinions welcome.....of fish or what? All opi > > Thanks, > > Jim > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > ( http://www.aol.com/?optin=new- dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010 ) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34371	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: New tank

Hi, y'all...someone just gave me a 2.5 gallon tank. Does anyone know how many fish I can get in there comfortably?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34372	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank

That size tank doesn't give you many options. Most really small fish... one inchers... like to be in schools so they aren't an option since you can't really have six fish in such a small tank. Fish bigger than a couple of inches as adults aren't an option. Fast swimmers aren't an option since the tank doesn't give them room to swim. So that leaves you with a limited choice. Most tanks that size do not have heaters available for them and small tanks are more subject to temperature changes than a larger volume tank. There are small airline powered filters that will fit in a small tank like that and a little Stingray filter system that would work in that tank. Something like a single Betta (Siamese Fighting Fish) which would be an easy option as long as the tank is kept in an area where it's not subject to too much temperature variation. If you get a Betta, go with the little Stingray filter rather than an airline powered filter since Betta's prefer little surface agitation for when they want to build a bubble nest. The Stingray sits on the bottom so it's not as much of an eyesore in a small tank either. I haven't owned one of these little Stingray filters so check them out more (online reviews or maybe other members have used them) before buying one. While it's best to have a filter system, with a Betta, you could also just go with some small easy to grow plants in the tank which would help out the overall ecology of the small tank. A single ADF (African Dwarf Frog) would work as long as you have a filter and do adequate tank maintenance. Live plants would help in the case of an ADF also. There are some fish that only grow to around 3/4", some listed on this page (the ones listed as 2.5cm) http://www.franksaquarium.com/nanofish.htm and you could possibly go with a school of them but they are usually pretty expensive... although the Spotted Rasbora (all the way at the bottom of the page) are listed at six for $6.00 so maybe your LFS might be able to get them at a similar price. Double check the sizes listed on the site. They have the Schooling Bumblebee Goby listed as only growing to 0.6" but Fishbase.org has them growing to 4.4cm which is about 1 3/4". http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=11802&genusname=Brachygobi us&speciesname=aggregatus I was wondering why they didn't have a Fishbase link on that fishes description like they do on most of the others. You could have a Mystery Snail and some cherry shrimp. They both like, and Cherry Shrimp kind of need, a planted tank so live plants would be needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 8:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank Hi, y'all...someone just gave me a 2.5 gallon tank. Does anyone know how many fish I can get in there comfortably?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34373	From: alireza sedaghati afkhami	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank

helo-thnkyouu for you --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 6:34 PM That size tank doesn't give you many options. Most really small fish... one inchers... like to be in schools so they aren't an option since you can't really have six fish in such a small tank. Fish bigger than a couple of inches as adults aren't an option. Fast swimmers aren't an option since the tank doesn't give them room to swim. So that leaves you with a limited choice. Most tanks that size do not have heaters available for them and small tanks are more subject to temperature changes than a larger volume tank. There are small airline powered filters that will fit in a small tank like that and a little Stingray filter system that would work in that tank. Something like a single Betta (Siamese Fighting Fish) which would be an easy option as long as the tank is kept in an area where it's not subject to too much temperature variation. If you get a Betta, go with the little Stingray filter rather than an airline powered filter since Betta's prefer little surface agitation for when they want to build a bubble nest. The Stingray sits on the bottom so it's not as much of an eyesore in a small tank either.. I haven't owned one of these little Stingray filters so check them out more (online reviews or maybe other members have used them) before buying one. While it's best to have a filter system, with a Betta, you could also just go with some small easy to grow plants in the tank which would help out the overall ecology of the small tank. A single ADF (African Dwarf Frog) would work as long as you have a filter and do adequate tank maintenance. Live plants would help in the case of an ADF also. There are some fish that only grow to around 3/4", some listed on this page (the ones listed as 2.5cm) http://www.franksaq uarium.com/ nanofish. htm and you could possibly go with a school of them but they are usually pretty expensive... although the Spotted Rasbora (all the way at the bottom of the page) are listed at six for $6.00 so maybe your LFS might be able to get them at a similar price. Double check the sizes listed on the site. They have the Schooling Bumblebee Goby listed as only growing to 0.6" but Fishbase.org has them growing to 4.4cm which is about 1 3/4". http://fishbase. org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=11802& genusname= Brachygobi us&speciesname= aggregatus I was wondering why they didn't have a Fishbase link on that fishes description like they do on most of the others. You could have a Mystery Snail and some cherry shrimp. They both like, and Cherry Shrimp kind of need, a planted tank so live plants would be needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 8:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank Hi, y'all...someone just gave me a 2.5 gallon tank. Does anyone know how many fish I can get in there comfortably? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34374	From: bill1433	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank

It all depends on what size fish they are and what type.  I currently have 3 glo-light tetra's and 4 neon's and 2 small albino cats in a 5-gallon hex BUT this small tank goes have a power filter and I do regular PWC's.  A good safe rule that I always use especially in a new tank is one inch of fish to 1/2 gallon of water.  2 or 3 small fishes should due fine.   Bill   --- On Fri, 12/12/08, *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@...> wrote: From: *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 9:14 AM Hi, y'all...someone just gave me a 2.5 gallon tank. Does anyone know how many fish I can get in there comfortably? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34375	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank

Coolness. Thanks so much. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 10:38:40 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New tank It all depends on what size fish they are and what type. I currently have 3 glo-light tetra's and 4 neon's and 2 small albino cats in a 5-gallon hex BUT this small tank goes have a power filter and I do regular PWC's. A good safe rule that I always use especially in a new tank is one inch of fish to 1/2 gallon of water. 2 or 3 small fishes should due fine. Bill --- On Fri, 12/12/08, *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 9:14 AM Hi, y'all...someone just gave me a 2.5 gallon tank. Does anyone know how many fish I can get in there comfortably? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34376	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank

Hi, I just bought one yesterday. It was a complete kit and I got it for a Nursery. My fish all decided to have their babies at the same time. So, if nothing else keep it for a nursery, mating, quarantine or hospital. Otherwise, I would say 4 small to 3 medium size fish. --- On Fri, 12/12/08, *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@...> wrote: From: *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 9:14 AM Hi, y'all...someone just gave me a 2.5 gallon tank. Does anyone know how many fish I can get in there comfortably? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34377	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: New tank

Yeah....that is a good idea...considering my guppies multiply...hehe... Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Philip Charles <alone29784@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 11:26:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New tank Hi, I just bought one yesterday. It was a complete kit and I got it for a Nursery. My fish all decided to have their babies at the same time. So, if nothing else keep it for a nursery, mating, quarantine or hospital. Otherwise, I would say 4 small to 3 medium size fish. --- On Fri, 12/12/08, *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: *Carol Lynn* <childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 9:14 AM Hi, y'all...someone just gave me a 2.5 gallon tank. Does anyone know how many fish I can get in there comfortably? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34378	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Best Fish Store in Las Vegas?

Hi all, I'm looking for anyone that lives in Vegas or has knowledge of the city to tell me what the best fish store is? I've been to Atlantis and Trop Aquarium. Both were OK, fish seemed healthy enough. Atlantis seemed friendlier. Just curious what anyones thoughts are about Las Vegas and fishkeeping stores? thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34379	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....

Lenny, Thanks again for all your help, you do have a very informative BLOG. Thanks for the links.. Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bow fronts are fine. The radius of the curve is so little that it has no > noticeable effect. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank.... > > > Well, I found another deal, on a 72 gal. bow front tank....What is your > views on the 72? I have never had a bow front tank, does it change your view > of fish or what? All opinions welcome.....And it is a great deal.. > > Thanks, > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34380	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank....

For African cichlids like Malawi or Tanganyika where bottom territory is important, you can fit more fish in a 75G. The corners and bowed out sections of bow front tanks don’t really provide additional territories. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 8:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Re: 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank.... Thanks, it is an impressive looking tank and I'm thinking of doing just chiclid's in it....I was worried about the distortion though.. Thanks, Jim --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Kevin Boyle <synoman1@...> wrote: > > > >  i have a 72 gallon bow front and it is a very nice tank. there is a very small amount of distortion, but it is more than made up by the spaciousness of the tank. even though it is only 17 gallons more than a 55, it seems much larger! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jpateson@... > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:57:32 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank.... > > > > > > > Thanks for the views on the Bow Tank, I am close to cutting a deal with him, > it comes with a Marineland 350 canister filter and a bunch of other stuff, > not to mention a great looking stand.... > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > In a message dated 12/11/2008 9:59:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, > GoldLenny@... writes: > > Bow fronts are fine. The radius of the curve is so little that it has no > noticeable effect. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - _ http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.http:/Gohtt_> http://Gohtt_ ( http://goldlenny. <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> blogspot.com/ ) > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com ) > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com ) ] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:01 PM > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com ) > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gal. vs. 72 gal. bow front tank.... > > Well, I found another deal, on a 72 gal. bow front tank....What is your > views on the 72? I have never had a bow front tank, does it change your view > of fish or what? All opinions welcome.....of fish or what? All opi > > Thanks, > > Jim > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > ( http://www.aol. <http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-> com/?optin=new- dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010 ) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34381	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

There is not much useful information on the web in the quick search I did about shelf life of reagents. Here is some information from the sites of manufacturers of reagents. LaMotte provides a short table of selected reagents and their shelf life here: http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html Hach weenies out by saying the date is on the reagent and it should not be used after that date, and does some hemming and hawing on how they are stored affecting their life span: http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode=GENERAL-REAG_2/NewLinkLabel=Shelf+life+of+reagents TinyURL since this will most likely wrap: http://tinyurl.com/6b7ug9 And, finally from Taylor Technologies, you have this explanation: http://www.taylortechnologies.com/learnmore_chem_shelf.asp?Print=true TinyURL as this may wrap: http://tinyurl.com/63tczb \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > According to the website Lenny linked to, below, API says that all their test reagents have > a minimum shelf life of 3 years, some up to 5. Now I'm confused. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:01 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Liquid reagents are good for about 6 months to a year. Powdered and > tablet reagents have a bit longer shelf life. > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Thanks! All of my bottles are from Oct of '06 or later, so they > a year or more to go still. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:07 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Here's how to tell the expiration dates on most test kits.. > including the > > API. > > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured > my salt > > levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > > Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I > used to > > get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, > since I > > lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I > removed 5G, > > but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and > > returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on > in, I'll > > be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every > 1G of > > water replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were > lower. The > > "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have > written > > that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't > see any > > expiration date anywhere. > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just > hope she > > (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used > the 20G > > (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. > I'm > > thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip > over > > the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the > > need to question your present salt content and your methods with > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as > well > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > > immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since > last > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents > may > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' > Fungus > > Cure) > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it > > in > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is > > not > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > > injurious > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's > > still > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank > > is > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent > > PWC's > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out > > you > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, > > and > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their > > diet > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add > > it. > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to > > water > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough > > water > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not > > too > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that > > much > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp > > per > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > > range. > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even > > though > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, > > if > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae > > are > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they > > can > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications while > > there > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications > > (and > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part > > of > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > > additional > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor > > will > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > treatments. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd > > and > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was > > off. > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline > > with > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the > > tank. > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of > > the > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal > > today, > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > > > number of > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to > > some > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in > > their > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, > > it > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > > > (unless > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > > > gallons > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with > > 30 > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd > > like to > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can > > get > > > a > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp > > of > > > salt > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate > > to 4 > > > 1/2 > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > > > their > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > > gallon > > > (not 3 > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I > > felt it > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > > > measure > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > > > limits > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > > > seeming to > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > > having > > > the > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > > somewhere in > > > the > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just > > what > > > your > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > > > adversely > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of > > the > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > > > your > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this > > is > > > the > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of > > other > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > > > gradually > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > > > tolerate > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > Anacharis -- > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of > > several > > > days > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both > > your > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > > > suddenly > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > > > nitrite > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > > nitrate > > > was > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > > > discrepency > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result > > (or > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd > > suggest > > > you > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > > > Those > > > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s > > Furan > > > II, > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > > > Buddies -- > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > > > Green > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, > > Fungal > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat > > weak > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > > > generally > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the > > what we > > > > were doing. > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved > > at > > > all > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems > > to be > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of > > her > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB > > seems > > > a > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > > getting I > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money > > for > > > the > > > > bigger > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the > > water a > > > > little (or > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > > > enough > > > > surface > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That > > and > > > live > > > > plants are > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > > > down. > > > > Cooler > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven > > will > > > > start to turn > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't > > do a > > > PWC > > > > yesterday) > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level > > so > > > I > > > > can see > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > > > look > > > > into an > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right > > now. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > > > activated > > > > carbon will > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon > > also > > > does > > > > not remove > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just > > an A- > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old > > home > > > and > > > > I would > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank > > but it > > > > simply isn't > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water > > that > > > > you'll be > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on > > my > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose > > 1G > > > or > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise > > syringe > > > to > > > > worry about > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter > > for > > > > simplicity... > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's > > on a > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst > > in > > > the > > > > world, I > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for > > the > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2752208 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > productId=2754035 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2754035> > > > > would last > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank > > and > > > > changing 25% > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > > > years ... > > > > probably much > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on > > the > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > > > water > > > > but it's > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > > getting > > > the > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > > online > > > from > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying > > more > > > for > > > > shipping > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > > > without > > > > using the > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use > > in > > > the > > > > future. Test > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor > > will > > > > break the > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > > > through > > > > a Brita > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things > > (I'll > > > > search down > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > > > reading > > > > is right > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > > filter. I > > > > don't add > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight > > tap > > > water > > > > and > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > > > aeration > > > > helps Raven > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > > product > > > (which > > > > one do you > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the > > dechlor? > > > If > > > > you didn't > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see > > the > > > 0.5ppm > > > > after > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your > > tap > > > > water is > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by > > binding > > > > chlorine and > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > > > especially > > > > when cycling > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully > > cycled > > > > tank, it will > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > > handled by > > > the > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system > > but > > > also > > > > in other > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the > > sickness > > > > itself. The > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > > > balance > > > > with the > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > > through > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing > > your > > > > testing and > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish > > needs > > > lots > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > This can be > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the > > water > > > level > > > > a little.. > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water > > causes > > > more > > > > surface > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > at the > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the > > water. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and > > then > > > > you'll have to > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles > > > referenced > > > > above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She > > is > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) > > is > > > > hiding under the > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > > started > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and > > wants > > > to > > > > sit on the > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are > > slowly > > > > disappearing. > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is > > still > > > about > > > > 25T in a > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > > yesterday > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to > > be a > > > > male, I guess > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons > > per > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > goldfish... > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > > > teaspoons > > > > per gallon > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will > > slowly > > > > bring the > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I > > started > > > > typing my > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already > > started > > > > doing this.. > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water > > just to > > > > make sure your > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > > teaspoons > > > to > > > > every five > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use > > those > > > 5G > > > > buckets for > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > > > bucket, > > > > fill it to > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, > > etc.) > > > and > > > > then slowly > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use > > the > > > > same mark to > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G > > or 3G > > > > mark is you > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > > > spill a > > > > lot when > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, > > L" x > > > W" x > > > > H" and > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > > yourself. > > > For > > > > your > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. > > L" > > > x W" > > > > x H" = > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse > > effect > > > on the > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > > > probably just > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > > healthy > > > was > > > > more > > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > > > Sometimes > > > > we have to > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely > > kills > > > off > > > > all of the > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > > > always > > > > hate saying > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every > > once > > > in a > > > > while, we > > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > > Goldfish > > > have a > > > > HUGE will > > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > > > conditions > > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > > > doesn't > > > > give proper > > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his > > sleigh > > > for > > > > you... and > > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > > > difficult > > > > to sex > > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > > harder to > > > > tell but males > > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill > > covers > > > and > > > > the leading > > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > > > first > > > > time and > > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white > > bumps > > > just > > > > on the > > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that > > means > > > you > > > > have a > > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > > > rename > > > > him to > > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the > > fish > > > to > > > > have found > > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > > > with > > > > them. LOL > > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > > > you'll > > > > know what to > > > > > look for. > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't > > be > > > 1.0 > > > > again > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was > > putting > > > in. > > > > I just > > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking > > it > > > didn't > > > > feel like > > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > > > Today > > > > when I did > > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a > > ruler > > > and > > > > it was > > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to > > count > > > > gallons as I > > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have > > sworn > > > my > > > > dd told me > > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > > > yesterday > > > > I removed > > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > > 27.5T. > > > > Tonight I removed > > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. > > The > > > fish > > > > seem to be > > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and > > just > > > not > > > > add any salt > > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level > > for a > > > 20 > > > > gallon tank. > > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the > > extra > > > > salt. It's > > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > > > goldfish. > > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10 > > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita > > filter): > > > > pH:7.4; > > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > > readings, > > > the > > > > pH usually > > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower > > than > > > 7.6 > > > > and > > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range > > test > > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > > > combination > > > > pack GH and > > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having > > the > > > > four basics > > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > > goldfish > > > > since your pH > > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > > > water. > > > > As your > > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, > > then > > > the > > > > GH and KH > > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in > > pH > > > after > > > > a week, > > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > > > capital > > > > H since it > > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > > > capitalized for > > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > > Alkalinity in > > > > some test > > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > > > instead > > > > of CH is > > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > > > hardness > > > > and Karbonat > > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, > > thus > > > KH. > > > > A German > > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually > > 17.85 > > > but > > > > 18 for > > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > > > 180ppm, > > > > that would > > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. > > Where > > > do > > > > I find test > > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > > > Detroit > > > > area of > > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the > > summer. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of > > the > > > tail > > > > and dorsal > > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > > disappearing. > > > > Raven > > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > > getting > > > dark > > > > spots, > > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but > > still > > > has > > > > a good > > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > > > Nitrate: > > > > 20 > > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > > > water > > > > with 1T per > > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so > > made > > > mental > > > > note to > > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems > > less > > > > obvious and the > > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > > > white > > > > areas, but > > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant > > as > > > always. > > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria > > in > > > there > > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the > > huge > > > > bubbles that > > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an > > extreme > > > bug- > > > > eye look, > > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > > > grasses > > > > with > > > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe > > I'll > > > just > > > > take a pair > > > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least > > not > > > that > > > > I've ever > > > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with > > decorations, > > > > plastic plants, > > > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start > > clearing > > > > up.. 7-10 days > > > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how > > bad > > > it > > > > was. Same > > > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > > > take a > > > > while for > > > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > > > Tablespoons > > > > which would > > > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have > > one > > > more > > > > dose to > > > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > > > total of > > > > 90 > > > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt > > should > > > start > > > > to have a > > > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let > > us > > > know > > > > which day > > > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with > > the > > > salt > > > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of > > 7.5 in > > > > your tank. > > > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT > > let > > > the > > > > ammonia get > > > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > > > ammonia in > > > > check. > > > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it > > with > > > the > > > > same level > > > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > > > before > > > > adding the > > > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a > > blog > > > > article on > > > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a > > gallon > > > > bucket. Test > > > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > > > dechlor. > > > > Test it > > > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > > > numbers > > > > will likely > > > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > > > baseline. > > > > Agitation > > > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, > > etc. > > > > This baseline > > > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, > > nitrate > > > in > > > > your tap > > > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > > > groups. I > > > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in > > an > > > email > > > > and then I > > > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when > > I > > > get > > > > the Daily > > > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > > > replies > > > > to a Daily > > > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their > > reply. > > > I've > > > > never seen > > > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so > > it > > > > automatically > > > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > > > Daily > > > > Digests. > > > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > > > take a > > > > few seconds > > > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except > > for > > > the > > > > thread they > > > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it > > doesn't > > > > show in reply > > > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made > > the > > > > upgrades to the > > > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group > > the > > > > replies > > > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > > > messages in > > > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > > > looking > > > > for other > > > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > > > chronological order.. > > > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > > > longer > > > > threads. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > > > whitish > > > > areas > > > > > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > > > eyes. > > > > This may be a > > > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't > > mess > > > > with that, > > > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be > > reassured > > > than > > > > find her > > > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 > > messages > > > in > > > > a day, > > > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get > > the > > > digest > > > > version go > > > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find > > the > > > new > > > > messages. > > > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before > > getting > > > the > > > > digest > > > > > version. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > > > because > > > > the fish > > > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > > > white > > > > and the > > > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > > > looking > > > > exhausted > > > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I > > was > > > using > > > > Rid-Ich+. > > > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got > > looking > > > at > > > > all those > > > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I > > decided > > > to > > > > try going > > > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > > > attendant > > > > for help. I > > > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > > > customers > > > > for rodent > > > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or > > pine > > > > shavings, that > > > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new > > pet > > > much > > > > sooner, > > > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > > > keeping > > > > them in > > > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all > > I > > > had > > > > time for. > > > > > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday > > afternoon > > > and > > > > the only > > > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > > > sealant. > > > > > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night > > (Sunday) > > > before > > > > going to > > > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I > > added > > > > another 2T > > > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to > > the > > > > replacement > > > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is > > a > > > total > > > > of 6T in > > > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the > > morning > > > and > > > > 20T tomorrow > > > > > night. > > > > > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short > > for > > > > Carol Burnett) > > > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > > > other > > > > two (Lucille > > > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). > > Her > > > (?) > > > > dorsal fin > > > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even > > though > > > it > > > > makes me > > > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > > > with > > > > adding > > > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading > > and a > > > > higher nitrite > > > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not > > complete. If > > > > either the > > > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your > > current > > > > nitrite level is > > > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water > > will > > > > protect the fish > > > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have > > but > > > you > > > > need some to > > > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. > > Did > > > you > > > > ever add > > > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would > > go > > > a > > > > long way... > > > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually > > have > > > an up > > > > and > > > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > > > future, > > > > it would > > > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > > > fish > > > > were gone or > > > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > > > getting > > > > stagnant. > > > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully > > there > > > > weren't any > > > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make > > things > > > > worse. You've > > > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old > > water > > > > anyhow. > > > > > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds > > (the > > > > malachite > > > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you > > never > > > > mentioned it. > > > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to > > work. > > > Four > > > > days isn't > > > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a > > major > > > > effect. > > > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > > > says to > > > > dose the > > > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be > > a > > > nine > > > > day > > > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > > > weaker > > > > or what. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > > > options... > > > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > > Malachite > > > > green: > > > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and > > protozoan > > > > parasites. > > > > > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as > > a > > > stock > > > > solution > > > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of > > the > > > stock > > > > solution > > > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > > > whatever > > > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how > > many > > > mgs > > > > of > > > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > > > solution > > > > uses 20 > > > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives > > 20 > > > mg > > > > malachite per > > > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 > > minutes. > > > > Higher dose only > > > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates > > with > > > 1 > > > > ml stock > > > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated > > every > > > other > > > > day for a > > > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: > > Repeat > > > > every three > > > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to > > 1ml > > > of > > > > stock > > > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose > > should > > > only > > > > be used with > > > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied > > directly > > > to > > > > a wound, > > > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > > > fish's > > > > eyes and > > > > > gills. > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > > > series of > > > > 25% PWC's > > > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > > > medicinally > > > > treated > > > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > > > remove > > > > the rest. > > > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned > > treatment > > > > will be the > > > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish > > rest in > > > > this fresh > > > > > water for<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34382	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: !!Trouble with goldfish !!

Suddenly the fish, especially one, is darting around frantically, wabbly, eating from the bottom, and floating on his side, or back, all very rapidly. I have not moved them into the new tank, still in the 20 gal. I put some Maracyn-two in the tank, also some salt. I am afraid I am going to lose him, or both of them. Any suggestions? Joanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!

In the future, do NOT put Maracyn 2 (or any other antibiotics) in the tank unless you know what is wrong. Using antibiotics when not needed will only create antibiotic-resistant bacteria in the long run. Since you started it, finish the full treatment schedule as only partially dosing antibiotics is what will make the bacteria resistant to meds if it doesn't kill them with the first partial dose. Keeping good water quality is also important to helping their immune systems. Do you have a master test kit? What are the water parameters? That's the first thing to do whenever a fish isn't acting right... check their water. I'm kind of remembering that you do not have a test kit yet and have been relying on the pet store with the "pneumonia" girl... is this right? If yes, then you should have listened to me when I explained how to clone your existing tank into the new tank already but since they are still in the 20G, that technically makes it easier to treat them so you won't have to use as much medicine in the smaller tank volume. Now.. onto the fish. Since it's having floating issues, feed it green pea "meat" (pinch the skin and feed the inside of the pea to the fish). This is a treat but it also helps clean them out. Oftentimes, floaty issues are digestive gas related. BUT... it can also be related to an internal bacterial issue causing swelling that is affecting the swim bladder. The first step is to rule out the digestive gas issue, which the pea "meat" will help determine. What kind of food(s) are you feeding the fish. We've discussed this out here a lot lately. Do a search in the Message section for goldfish food and you'll find our other recent threads. Are these fancy goldfish or common long-bodied goldfish? If fancies, when they get floaty problems, which is common, they will often make darting swimming movements to try and get back down to the bottom. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] !!Trouble with goldfish !! Suddenly the fish, especially one, is darting around frantically, wabbly, eating from the bottom, and floating on his side, or back, all very rapidly. I have not moved them into the new tank, still in the 20 gal. I put some Maracyn-two in the tank, also some salt. I am afraid I am going to lose him, or both of them. Any suggestions? Joanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34384	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!

Yes, fancy gold fish. I did, in fact, clone the tank yesterday, and was hoping to buy a master tester today, so I could monitor the water, but the other, non-pneumonia stores I went to didn't have them. I had a personal emergency/tragedy today, and was not able to make the change to the larger tank. I read on a web link on general facts about GF, that this floating and darting may be due to poisoning, so was concerned about the need to take them out of the tank. IDK, I will watch and read some more. What food am I giving them? Called Omega One- natural protein formual. I have given the skinned peas, and added some more water. He seems to have calmed down a little now, not darting much, but is still doing acrobatics and spinning around. His swim bladder certainly looks like it could have been affected somehow. He does seem to have a slight loss of color, he looks sort of pale yellow, rather than gold, and was rubbing against stuff, and hanging out by the bubbles. This seems to be consistent with one of the descriptions of symptoms indicating a need for Marycyn, as per their pamphlet. He may be doing a little better, so... thanks for the tip about the green pea. Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > In the future, do NOT put Maracyn 2 (or any other antibiotics) in the tank > unless you know what is wrong. Using antibiotics when not needed will only > create antibiotic-resistant bacteria in the long run. > > Since you started it, finish the full treatment schedule as only partially > dosing antibiotics is what will make the bacteria resistant to meds if it > doesn't kill them with the first partial dose. Keeping good water quality > is also important to helping their immune systems. > > Do you have a master test kit? What are the water parameters? That's the > first thing to do whenever a fish isn't acting right... check their water. > I'm kind of remembering that you do not have a test kit yet and have been > relying on the pet store with the "pneumonia" girl... is this right? If > yes, then you should have listened to me when I explained how to clone your > existing tank into the new tank already but since they are still in the 20G, > that technically makes it easier to treat them so you won't have to use as > much medicine in the smaller tank volume. > > Now.. onto the fish. Since it's having floating issues, feed it green pea > "meat" (pinch the skin and feed the inside of the pea to the fish). This is > a treat but it also helps clean them out. Oftentimes, floaty issues are > digestive gas related. BUT... it can also be related to an internal > bacterial issue causing swelling that is affecting the swim bladder. The > first step is to rule out the digestive gas issue, which the pea "meat" will > help determine. > > What kind of food(s) are you feeding the fish. We've discussed this out > here a lot lately. Do a search in the Message section for goldfish food and > you'll find our other recent threads. > > Are these fancy goldfish or common long-bodied goldfish? If fancies, when > they get floaty problems, which is common, they will often make darting > swimming movements to try and get back down to the bottom. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] !!Trouble with goldfish !! > > Suddenly the fish, especially one, is darting around frantically, wabbly, > eating from the bottom, and floating on his side, or back, all very rapidly. > I have not moved them into the new tank, still in the 20 gal. > I put some Maracyn-two in the tank, also some salt. I am afraid I am going > to lose him, or both of them. Any suggestions? > Joanna >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34385	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of Jungle Fungus Clear): - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the bottom. She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB also stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. And yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up every little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; Nitrate: between 10 and 20ppm On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist for $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need resealing, but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the plastic frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a fish tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see that it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this tank falls through. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt levels. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water replaced with 1T of salt. I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the need to question your present salt content and your methods with which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you could clarify this further if this is not the case. I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may be out-dated). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still > considered within acceptable limits. > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can > take more but not by a whole lot. > > The general question of whether you can add medications while there > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get > a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of > salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 > 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon > (not 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > seeming to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having > the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what > your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is > the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate > was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan > II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at > all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems > a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for > the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and > live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a > PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so > I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also > does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home > and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G > or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe > to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in > the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2752208 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2752208> or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2754035 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2754035> > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting > the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online > from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more > for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in > the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap > water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product > (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? > If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the > 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by > the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but > also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs > lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water > level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes > more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants > to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still > about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday > and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... > and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons > to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those > 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) > and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x > W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. > For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" > x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect > on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy > was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills > off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once > in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish > have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh > for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers > and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps > just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means > you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish > to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > (You'll also see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be > 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting > in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it > didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler > and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn > my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The > fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just > not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a > 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, > the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than > 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then > the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH > after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus > KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 > but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where > do > > I find test > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > Detroit > > area of > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the > tail > > and dorsal > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > disappearing. > > Raven > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting > dark > > spots, > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still > has > > a good > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 20 > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > water > > with 1T per > > > G salt) > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made > mental > > note to > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > > obvious and the > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > white > > areas, but > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as > always. > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in > there > > somewhere > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > > bubbles that > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme > bug- > > eye look, > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > grasses > > with > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll > just > > take a pair > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not > that > > I've ever > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > > plastic plants, > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > > up.. 7-10 days > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad > it > > was. Same > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > take a > > while for > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > Tablespoons > > which would > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one > more > > dose to > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > total of > > 90 > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should > start > > to have a > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us > know > > which day > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the > salt > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > > your tank. > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let > the > > ammonia get > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > ammonia in > > check. > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with > the > > same level > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > before > > adding the > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > > article on > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > > bucket. Test > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > dechlor. > > Test it > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > numbers > > will likely > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > baseline. > > Agitation > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > > This baseline > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > in > > your tap > > > water. > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > groups. I > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an > email > > and then I > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I > get > > the Daily > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > replies > > to a Daily > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. > I've > > never seen > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > > automatically > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > Daily > > Digests. > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > take a > > few seconds > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for > the > > thread they > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > > show in reply > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > > upgrades to the > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > > replies > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > messages in > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > looking > > for other > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > chronological order.. > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > longer > > threads. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > whitish > > areas > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > eyes. > > This may be a > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > > with that, > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured > than > > find her > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages > in > > a day, > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the > digest > > version go > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the > new > > messages. > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting > the > > digest > > > version. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > because > > the fish > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > white > > and the > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > looking > > exhausted > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was > using > > Rid-Ich+. > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking > at > > all those > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided > to > > try going > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > attendant > > for help. I > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > customers > > for rodent > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > > shavings, that > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet > much > > sooner, > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > keeping > > them in > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I > had > > time for. > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon > and > > the only > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > sealant. > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) > before > > going to > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > > another 2T > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > > replacement > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a > total > > of 6T in > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning > and > > 20T tomorrow > > > night. > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > > Carol Burnett) > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > other > > two (Lucille > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her > (?) > > dorsal fin > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though > it > > makes me > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > with > > adding > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > > higher nitrite > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > > either the > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > > nitrite level is > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > > protect the fish > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but > you > > need some to > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did > you > > ever add > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go > a > > long way... > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have > an up > > and > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > future, > > it would > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > fish > > were gone or > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > getting > > stagnant. > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > > weren't any > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > > worse. You've > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > > anyhow. > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > > malachite > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > > mentioned it. > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. > Four > > days isn't > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > > effect. > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > says to > > dose the > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a > nine > > day > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > weaker > > or what. > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > options... > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > Malachite > > green: > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > > parasites. > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a > stock > > solution > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the > stock > > solution > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > whatever > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many > mgs > > of > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > solution > > uses 20 > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 > mg > > malachite per > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > > Higher dose only > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with > 1 > > ml stock > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every > other > > day for a > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > > every three > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml > of > > stock > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should > only > > be used with > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly > to > > a wound, > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > fish's > > eyes and > > > gills. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > series of > > 25% PWC's > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > medicinally > > treated > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > remove > > the rest. > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > > will be the > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > > this fresh > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > > their > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > antibiotic.. > > were you > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > > interdiction or > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much > help > > with your > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > > treatment. > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > salt > > but DO NOT > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > treatment unless > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says > it's > > OK. It's > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions > from > > a very > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or > pet > > store > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > > fish a 24 > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > treatment... > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > > gallon), which is > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > with a > > dose of 1 > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute > this > > salt in a > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into > the > > tank, > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already > added > > 6 > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it > up to > > the > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > later, > > add another > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. > 12 > > hours > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > teaspoons per > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > putting > > your > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your > fish > > to adjust > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), > if > > and/or when > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you > would > > then add 15 > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you > add > > it back > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially > one > > after the > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the > salt a > > chance to > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > happening to the > > > fish. > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > better > > and it's also > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies > like > > I did with > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include > my > > previous > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go > to > > the webpage > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34386	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus Clear. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of Jungle Fungus Clear): - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the bottom. She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB also stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. And yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up every little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; Nitrate: between 10 and 20ppm On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist for $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need resealing, but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the plastic frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a fish tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see that it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this tank falls through. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt levels. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water replaced with 1T of salt. I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the need to question your present salt content and your methods with which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you could clarify this further if this is not the case. I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may be out-dated). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still > considered within acceptable limits. > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can > take more but not by a whole lot. > > The general question of whether you can add medications while there > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get > a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of > salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 > 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon > (not 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > seeming to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having > the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what > your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is > the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate > was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan > II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at > all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems > a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for > the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and > live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a > PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so > I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also > does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home > and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G > or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe > to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in > the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2752208 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2752208> or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? productId=2754035 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2754035> > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting > the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online > from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more > for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in > the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap > water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% "> > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product > (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? > If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the > 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by > the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but > also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs > lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water > level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes > more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants > to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still > about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday > and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... > and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons > to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those > 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) > and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x > W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. > For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" > x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect > on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy > was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills > off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once > in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish > have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh > for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers > and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps > just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means > you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish > to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > (You'll also see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be > 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting > in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it > didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler > and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn > my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The > fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just > not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a > 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, > the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than > 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then > the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH > after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus > KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 > but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where > do > > I find test > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > Detroit > > area of > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the > tail > > and dorsal > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > disappearing. > > Raven > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting > dark > > spots, > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still > has > > a good > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 20 > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > water > > with 1T per > > > G salt) > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made > mental > > note to > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > > obvious and the > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > white > > areas, but > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as > always. > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in > there > > somewhere > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > > bubbles that > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme > bug- > > eye look, > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > grasses > > with > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll > just > > take a pair > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not > that > > I've ever > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > > plastic plants, > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > > up.. 7-10 days > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad > it > > was. Same > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > take a > > while for > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > Tablespoons > > which would > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one > more > > dose to > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > total of > > 90 > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should > start > > to have a > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us > know > > which day > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the > salt > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > > your tank. > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let > the > > ammonia get > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > ammonia in > > check. > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with > the > > same level > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > before > > adding the > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > > article on > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > > bucket. Test > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > dechlor. > > Test it > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > numbers > > will likely > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > baseline. > > Agitation > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > > This baseline > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > in > > your tap > > > water. > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > groups. I > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an > email > > and then I > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I > get > > the Daily > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > replies > > to a Daily > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. > I've > > never seen > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > > automatically > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > Daily > > Digests. > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > take a > > few seconds > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for > the > > thread they > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > > show in reply > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > > upgrades to the > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > > replies > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > messages in > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > looking > > for other > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > chronological order.. > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > longer > > threads. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > whitish > > areas > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > eyes. > > This may be a > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > > with that, > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured > than > > find her > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages > in > > a day, > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the > digest > > version go > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the > new > > messages. > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting > the > > digest > > > version. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > because > > the fish > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > white > > and the > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > looking > > exhausted > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was > using > > Rid-Ich+. > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking > at > > all those > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided > to > > try going > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > attendant > > for help. I > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > customers > > for rodent > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > > shavings, that > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet > much > > sooner, > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > keeping > > them in > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I > had > > time for. > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon > and > > the only > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > sealant. > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) > before > > going to > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > > another 2T > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > > replacement > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a > total > > of 6T in > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning > and > > 20T tomorrow > > > night. > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > > Carol Burnett) > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > other > > two (Lucille > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her > (?) > > dorsal fin > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though > it > > makes me > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > with > > adding > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > > higher nitrite > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > > either the > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > > nitrite level is > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > > protect the fish > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but > you > > need some to > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did > you > > ever add > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go > a > > long way... > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have > an up > > and > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > future, > > it would > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > fish > > were gone or > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > getting > > stagnant. > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > > weren't any > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > > worse. You've > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > > anyhow. > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > > malachite > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > > mentioned it. > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. > Four > > days isn't > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > > effect. > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > says to > > dose the > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a > nine > > day > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > weaker > > or what. > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > options... > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > Malachite > > green: > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > > parasites. > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a > stock > > solution > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the > stock > > solution > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > whatever > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many > mgs > > of > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > solution > > uses 20 > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 > mg > > malachite per > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > > Higher dose only > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with > 1 > > ml stock > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every > other > > day for a > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > > every three > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml > of > > stock > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should > only > > be used with > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly > to > > a wound, > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > fish's > > eyes and > > > gills. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > series of > > 25% PWC's > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > medicinally > > treated > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > remove > > the rest. > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > > will be the > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > > this fresh > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > > their > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > antibiotic.. > > were you > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > > interdiction or > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much > help > > with your > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > > treatment. > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > salt > > but DO NOT > > > add any more salt to the tank du<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34387	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/12/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!

When you clone the tank, you should normally move the goldfish at the same time. Did you move the filter, gravel, plants, etc.? If yes, then you moved all of the good nitrifying bacteria and if the goldfish are in the old tank with none or little of them, then the ammonia/nitrite levels could be rising. What website did you read that these symptoms could be due to poisoning???.... unless they were talking about ammonia/nitrite poisoning, which is still a poison but we don't normally consider exposure to ammonia/nitrite as a "poison" unless you read about nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder). Adding a pinch of salt per 10G will protect against low levels (up to around 1.5ppm of nitrite). Have you used any kinds of household chemicals around the tank or in your air, like deodorant air sprays? Those would be more of what I would consider a poison to fish. It's not good to use any of that kind of stuff in your home when you have fish, as the scents in those sprays and most other scents/smells (paint, gas, etc.) are created by VOC's (volatile organic compounds) and they are not good for humans and especially not good for very small animals/fish. Doing PWC's and running fresh carbon will help to remove VOC's or any other contamination... if that is what happened. OK. It's good that you are feeding them the Omega One now but make sure you still give them a varied diet, including the peas, etc. The acrobatics/spinning is almost certainly related to swim bladder or digestive gas issues. The loss of color is likely due to the added stress from the fish not having proper control and getting frustrated because they are not going where they want to go when they try to swim. If he is actually rubbing against stuff on purpose... and not just because he doesn't have as much control of his swimming abilities due to the swim bladder issue... then that could be related to an external parasite and the fish will try to rub on things to scrape them off. Maracyn 2 is for treating gram-negative bacteria, not for external parasites. As I stated earlier, continue with the Maracyn 2, even though I don't think it was necessary, but you don't want to created issues for your fish in the future with superbugs. Feed the green pea "meat" for a couple of days and see if this solves all the swimming issues. If it does, then just finish the Maracyn 2 treatment and do NOT do things without checking out here FIRST. We can't help as much, once you start doing things on your own. IF AND ONLY IF the fish continues flashing/rubbing on things after the swim bladder/gas issues have resolved, then, you could have external parasites... although I'm still not sure you do... but a safe and simple treatment for most external parasites and many other issues, would be to SLOWLY raise the salt level in your tank to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon). You said you already added some salt so keep notes and figure out how much you've added per gallon so far and bring that up to 0.1% (1 teaspoon per gallon). Then 12 hours later, add another 1 teaspoon per gallon, so this would raise it to 0.2%. 12 hours later, add another 1 teaspoon per gallon, bringing it up to the 0.3% level. Whenever you need to do a PWC, top off the tank with fresh water first to replace any evaporation, then remove the 25% PWC. Then dilute the same 3 teaspoons per gallon in the replacement water before adding it to the tank so the level in the tank stays at 0.3%. This will help against most common external parasites although it will not be effective against a couple of others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !! Yes, fancy gold fish. I did, in fact, clone the tank yesterday, and was hoping to buy a master tester today, so I could monitor the water, but the other, non-pneumonia stores I went to didn't have them. I had a personal emergency/tragedy today, and was not able to make the change to the larger tank. I read on a web link on general facts about GF, that this floating and darting may be due to poisoning, so was concerned about the need to take them out of the tank. IDK, I will watch and read some more. What food am I giving them? Called Omega One- natural protein formual. I have given the skinned peas, and added some more water. He seems to have calmed down a little now, not darting much, but is still doing acrobatics and spinning around. His swim bladder certainly looks like it could have been affected somehow. He does seem to have a slight loss of color, he looks sort of pale yellow, rather than gold, and was rubbing against stuff, and hanging out by the bubbles. This seems to be consistent with one of the descriptions of symptoms indicating a need for Marycyn, as per their pamphlet. He may be doing a little better, so... thanks for the tip about the green pea. Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > In the future, do NOT put Maracyn 2 (or any other antibiotics) in the > tank unless you know what is wrong. Using antibiotics when not needed > will only create antibiotic-resistant bacteria in the long run. > > Since you started it, finish the full treatment schedule as only > partially dosing antibiotics is what will make the bacteria resistant > to meds if it doesn't kill them with the first partial dose. Keeping > good water quality is also important to helping their immune systems. > > Do you have a master test kit? What are the water parameters? That's > the first thing to do whenever a fish isn't acting right... check their water. > I'm kind of remembering that you do not have a test kit yet and have > been relying on the pet store with the "pneumonia" girl... is this > right? If yes, then you should have listened to me when I explained > how to clone your existing tank into the new tank already but since > they are still in the 20G, that technically makes it easier to treat > them so you won't have to use as much medicine in the smaller tank volume. > > Now.. onto the fish. Since it's having floating issues, feed it green > pea "meat" (pinch the skin and feed the inside of the pea to the > fish). This is a treat but it also helps clean them out. Oftentimes, > floaty issues are digestive gas related. BUT... it can also be related > to an internal bacterial issue causing swelling that is affecting the > swim bladder. The first step is to rule out the digestive gas issue, > which the pea "meat" will help determine. > > What kind of food(s) are you feeding the fish. We've discussed this > out here a lot lately. Do a search in the Message section for goldfish > food and you'll find our other recent threads. > > Are these fancy goldfish or common long-bodied goldfish? If fancies, > when they get floaty problems, which is common, they will often make > darting swimming movements to try and get back down to the bottom. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] !!Trouble with goldfish !! > > Suddenly the fish, especially one, is darting around frantically, > wabbly, eating from the bottom, and floating on his side, or back, all very rapidly. > I have not moved them into the new tank, still in the 20 gal. > I put some Maracyn-two in the tank, also some salt. I am afraid I am > going to lose him, or both of them. Any suggestions? > Joanna >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34388	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all the medical treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in the hospital would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be absorbed through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out by their kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which is stressful to fish. If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the surface, etc., then it's not O2 issues. And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter return. The bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All the agitation from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there is more gas exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. The up/down hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a tank compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they do not have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I guess if it was a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by removing all the old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a price. I've seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that used to have a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. Tell them how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to about $25.00. ;-) If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that shouldn't affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic of the same length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure the front and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone removed that cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where the glass had to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 pounds of weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me know. I have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of Jungle Fungus Clear): - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the bottom. She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB also stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. And yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up every little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; Nitrate: between 10 and 20ppm On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist for $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need resealing, but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the plastic frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a fish tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see that it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this tank falls through. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt levels. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water replaced with 1T of salt. I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over the summer. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the need to question your present salt content and your methods with which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you could clarify this further if this is not the case. I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may be out-dated). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus Cure) > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as energetic as yesterday morning > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it in > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is not > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as injurious > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's still > considered within acceptable limits. > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank is > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent PWC's > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out you > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, and > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their diet > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add it. > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to water > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough water > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not too > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that much > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp per > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable range. > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even though > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, if > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae are > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they can > take more but not by a whole lot. > > The general question of whether you can add medications while there > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications (and > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part of > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add additional > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor will > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during treatments. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd and > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was off. > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline with > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the tank. > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of the > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal today, > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > number of > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to some > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in their > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, it > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > (unless > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > gallons > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with 30 > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd like to > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can get > a > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp of > salt > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate to 4 > 1/2 > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > their > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per gallon > (not 3 > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I felt it > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > measure > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > limits > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > seeming to > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) having > the > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being somewhere in > the > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just what > your > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > adversely > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of the > > fungus. > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > your > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this is > the > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of other > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > gradually > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > tolerate > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, Anacharis -- > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of several > days > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both your > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > suddenly > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > nitrite > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your nitrate > was > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > discrepency > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result (or > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd suggest > you > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > Those > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s Furan > II, > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > Buddies -- > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid-Ich/Malachite > Green > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, Fungal > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat weak > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > generally > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the what we > > were doing. > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved at > all > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems to be > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of her > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB seems > a > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're getting I > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money for > the > > bigger > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the water a > > little (or > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > enough > > surface > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That and > live > > plants are > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > down. > > Cooler > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven will > > start to turn > > > around soon. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't do a > PWC > > yesterday) > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level so > I > > can see > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > look > > into an > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > activated > > carbon will > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A-Carbon also > does > > not remove > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just an A- > > carbon filter. > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old home > and > > I would > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank but it > > simply isn't > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water that > > you'll be > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on my > > Betta tank was > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose 1G > or > > 2G of water. > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise syringe > to > > worry about > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter for > > simplicity... > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's on a > > weekly basis. > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst in > the > > world, I > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for the > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> productId=2752208 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2752208> or > > a $5.00 - > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> productId=2754035 > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > productId=2754035> > > would last > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > Dechlorinator will > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank and > > changing 25% > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > years ... > > probably much > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on the > > Britta. The 16 > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > water > > but it's > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been getting > the > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it online > from > > whomever I'm > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying more > for > > shipping > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > without > > using the > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use in > the > > future. Test > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor will > > break the > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > through > > a Brita > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things (I'll > > search down > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > reading > > is right > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the filter. I > > don't add > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight tap > water > > and > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > aeration > > helps Raven > > > any. > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > for me! > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor product > (which > > one do you > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the dechlor? > If > > you didn't > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see the > 0.5ppm > > after > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your tap > > water is > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by binding > > chlorine and > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > especially > > when cycling > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully cycled > > tank, it will > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily handled by > the > > nitrifying > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system but > also > > in other > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the sickness > > itself. The > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > balance > > with the > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going through > > cycling issues, > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing your > > testing and > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish needs > lots > > of O2 and if > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > sluggish/lethargic. > > This can be > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the water > level > > a little.. > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water causes > more > > surface > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > ingasing/outgasing > > at the > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the water. > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and then > > you'll have to > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles > referenced > > above > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She is > > doing a lot of > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug-eyes) is > > hiding under the > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I started > > adding the salt. > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and wants > to > > sit on the > > > bottom most of the time. > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are slowly > > disappearing. > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: not > > > quite 20ppm > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is still > about > > 25T in a > > > 20G tank > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank yesterday > and > > it's > > > definitely a 20G. > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to be a > > male, I guess > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons per > > gallon) are used > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the goldfish... > and > > it's > > > working. > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > teaspoons > > per gallon > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will slowly > > bring the > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I started > > typing my > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already started > > doing this.. > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water just to > > make sure your > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 teaspoons > to > > every five > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use those > 5G > > buckets for > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > bucket, > > fill it to > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, etc.) > and > > then slowly > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use the > > same mark to > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G or 3G > > mark is you > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > spill a > > lot when > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, L" x > W" x > > H" and > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out yourself. > For > > your > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > square/rectangular > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. L" > x W" > > x H" = > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse effect > on the > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > probably just > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish healthy > was > > more > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > Sometimes > > we have to > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely kills > off > > all of the > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > always > > hate saying > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every once > in a > > while, we > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. Goldfish > have a > > HUGE will > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > conditions > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > doesn't > > give proper > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, etc.. > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his sleigh > for > > you... and > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > difficult > > to sex > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are harder to > > tell but males > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill covers > and > > the leading > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > first > > time and > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white bumps > just > > on the > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that means > you > > have a > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > rename > > him to > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the fish > to > > have found > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > with > > them. LOL > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > you'll > > know what to > > > look for. > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also see the > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't be > 1.0 > > again > > > tomorrow > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was putting > in. > > I just > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking it > didn't > > feel like > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > Today > > when I did > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a ruler > and > > it was > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to count > > gallons as I > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have sworn > my > > dd told me > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > yesterday > > I removed > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it 27.5T. > > Tonight I removed > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. The > fish > > seem to be > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and just > not > > add any salt > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level for a > 20 > > gallon tank. > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the extra > > salt. It's > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > goldfish. > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 10 > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita filter): > > pH:7.4; > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank readings, > the > > pH usually > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower than > 7.6 > > and > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range test > > (7.4) so I'm > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > combination > > pack GH and > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having the > > four basics > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for goldfish > > since your pH > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > water. > > As your > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, then > the > > GH and KH > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in pH > after > > a week, > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > capital > > H since it > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > capitalized for > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as Alkalinity in > > some test > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > instead > > of CH is > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > hardness > > and Karbonat > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, thus > KH. > > A German > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually 17.85 > but > > 18 for > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > 180ppm, > > that would > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. Where > do > > I find test > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > Detroit > > area of > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of the > tail > > and dorsal > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > disappearing. > > Raven > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's getting > dark > > spots, > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but still > has > > a good > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > Nitrate: > > 20 > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > water > > with 1T per > > > G salt) > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so made > mental > > note to > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems less > > obvious and the > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > white > > areas, but > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant as > always. > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria in > there > > somewhere > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the huge > > bubbles that > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an extreme > bug- > > eye look, > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > grasses > > with > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe I'll > just > > take a pair > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least not > that > > I've ever > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with decorations, > > plastic plants, > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start clearing > > up.. 7-10 days > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how bad > it > > was. Same > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > take a > > while for > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > Tablespoons > > which would > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have one > more > > dose to > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > total of > > 90 > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt should > start > > to have a > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let us > know > > which day > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with the > salt > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of 7.5 in > > your tank. > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT let > the > > ammonia get > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > ammonia in > > check. > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it with > the > > same level > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > before > > adding the > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a blog > > article on > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a gallon > > bucket. Test > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > dechlor. > > Test it > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > numbers > > will likely > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > baseline. > > Agitation > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, etc. > > This baseline > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate > in > > your tap > > > water. > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > groups. I > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in an > email > > and then I > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when I > get > > the Daily > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > replies > > to a Daily > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their reply. > I've > > never seen > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so it > > automatically > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > Daily > > Digests. > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > take a > > few seconds > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except for > the > > thread they > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it doesn't > > show in reply > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made the > > upgrades to the > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group the > > replies > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > messages in > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > looking > > for other > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > chronological order.. > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > longer > > threads. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > whitish > > areas > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > eyes. > > This may be a > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't mess > > with that, > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be reassured > than > > find her > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 messages > in > > a day, > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get the > digest > > version go > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find the > new > > messages. > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before getting > the > > digest > > > version. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > because > > the fish > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > white > > and the > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > looking > > exhausted > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I was > using > > Rid-Ich+. > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got looking > at > > all those > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I decided > to > > try going > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > attendant > > for help. I > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > customers > > for rodent > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or pine > > shavings, that > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new pet > much > > sooner, > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > keeping > > them in > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all I > had > > time for. > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday afternoon > and > > the only > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > sealant. > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night (Sunday) > before > > going to > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I added > > another 2T > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to the > > replacement > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is a > total > > of 6T in > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the morning > and > > 20T tomorrow > > > night. > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short for > > Carol Burnett) > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > other > > two (Lucille > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). Her > (?) > > dorsal fin > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even though > it > > makes me > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > with > > adding > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading and a > > higher nitrite > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not complete. If > > either the > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your current > > nitrite level is > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water will > > protect the fish > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have but > you > > need some to > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. Did > you > > ever add > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would go > a > > long way... > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually have > an up > > and > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > future, > > it would > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > fish > > were gone or > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > getting > > stagnant. > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully there > > weren't any > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make things > > worse. You've > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old water > > anyhow. > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds (the > > malachite > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you never > > mentioned it. > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to work. > Four > > days isn't > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a major > > effect. > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > says to > > dose the > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be a > nine > > day > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > weaker > > or what. > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > options... > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite > > green: > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and protozoan > > parasites. > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as a > stock > > solution > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of the > stock > > solution > > > varies depending on preference. The main point is that > whatever > > > concentration is used it should be easy to calculate how many > mgs > > of > > > malachite there are per ml of solution. A popular stock > solution > > uses 20 > > > grams malachite per litre of distilled water. This gives 20 > mg > > malachite per > > > ml of stock solution. Using this stock solution. > > > > > > Bath: 1-2 mg malachite per litre water for 30 - 60 minutes. > > Higher dose only > > > for large fish, such as koi, in hard water. This equates with > 1 > > ml stock > > > solution per 20 - 40 liters of water. Can be repeated every > other > > day for a > > > maximum of four treatments. > > > > > > Prolonged immersion:0.1- 0.25 mg malachite per litre: Repeat > > every three > > > days for a maximum of three treatments. This equates to 1ml > of > > stock > > > solution per 80 - 200 litres. Again the higher dose should > only > > be used with > > > large fish, such as koi, in hard water. > > > > > > Topical treatment: The stock solution can be applied directly > to > > a wound, > > > particularly when fungus is present. Keep away from the > fish's > > eyes and > > > gills. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > After you are sure that the MG isn't working, then do a > series of > > 25% PWC's > > > (every couple of hours) to remove the majority of the > medicinally > > treated > > > water and add carbon to your filter after these PWC's to > remove > > the rest. > > > You can leave the carbon in since your next planned treatment > > will be the > > > salt and salt is not affected by carbon. Let the fish rest in > > this fresh > > > water for 24 hours before starting the next treatment to give > > their > > > osmoregulatory system a rest and so they can excrete any meds. > > > > > > You mentioned you were going to get a broad spectrum > antibiotic.. > > were you > > > able to get this? While PimaFix and MelaFix are OK for early > > interdiction or > > > for post treatment healing, they aren't going to be as much > help > > with your > > > more serious issues as an stronger antibiotic or even a salt > > treatment. > > > If you did NOT get the antibiotic, then plan on using the > salt > > but DO NOT > > > add any more salt to the tank during the malachite green > > treatment unless > > > one of the other more experienced members chimes in and says > it's > > OK. It's > > > best to NOT mix and match meds without specific instructions > from > > a very > > > experienced person.. which excludes 99.9% of fish store or > pet > > store > > > employees or owners. LOL > > > > > > Then, if you are not using an antibiotic and after giving the > > fish a 24 > > > hours rest with just fresh water, to start the salt > treatment... > > > > > > For a TOTAL salt treatment of 0.3% (=3ppT =3 teaspoons per > > gallon), which is > > > a good treatment level to kill of most nasties, start off > with a > > dose of 1 > > > teaspoon per gallon (30 teaspoons for your tank) and dilute > this > > salt in a > > > gallon of removed tank water, then slowly pour it back into > the > > tank, > > > avoiding the fish and the filter intakes. Since you already > added > > 6 > > > teaspoons, you need to add another 24 teaspoons to bring it > up to > > the > > > initial dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon (or 0.1%). 12 hours > later, > > add another > > > dose of 1 teaspoon per gallon which will bring it up to 0.2%. > 12 > > hours > > > later, add the 3rd dose. This will bring it up to 0.3% (3 > > teaspoons per > > > gallon) over the course of 24 hours. This will prevent > putting > > your > > > nitrifying bacteria into shock and will be easier for your > fish > > to adjust > > > their osmoregulatory system to this level of salt. > > > > > > Once you have the tank up to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon), > if > > and/or when > > > doing a 16.5% or 33% PWC (5G or 10G's for simplicity), you > would > > then add 15 > > > or 30 teaspoons of salt to the 5G or 10G of water before you > add > > it back > > > into the tank. This will keep the salinity level at 0.3%. > > > > > > DO NOT add any other meds for now. Mixing meds, especially > one > > after the > > > other can be worse for the fish than the disease. Give the > salt a > > chance to > > > work for a week and report back to us daily about what is > > happening to the > > > fish. > > > > > > Keep everything in this same thread so we can follow it > better > > and it's also > > > better to leave ALL of the below information in your replies > like > > I did with > > > this reply, where I left your last reply. You didn't include > my > > previous > > > reply or your initial reply so a new reader would have to go > to > > the webpage > > > and read those posts. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:01 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > OK, I won't worry about the larger tank until I get whatever > this > > is under > > > control. It's day 4 of the malachite green and I'm seeing a > few > > new white > > > areas, so I'm leaning more towards bacteria even though it > seems > > to have > > > started on the body. > > > > > > I want to add salt, but I've seen so many dosages mentioned > that > > I can't get > > > it straight in my head how much to add and I went and got > canning > > salt, so I > > > can't just read to box. I added an initial dose of 2T. For a > 30 G > > tank, > > > that's just 1tsp per 5 gallons. Should I repeat this two more > > times 12 hours > > > apart? (I'm dreading the fun math involved with maintaining > > therapeutic > > > levels while doing daily PWCs) > > > > > > I also want to try Melafix and possibly Pimafix (I believe I > did > > see on the > > > company website that they can be used together). The problem > is > > that they > > > require the removal of the activated carbon, "if possible." > Is > > that > > > something I should be doing if I don't know how balanced the > tank > > is, yet? > > > > > > I tested the water this evening and added 1T of AmQuel+Plus. > I'll > > retest > > > tomorrow. Today's reading were: pH: 7.5, Ammonia: <.25 ppm, > > Nitrate: >10 & > > > <20 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm > > > > > > I'll try to clarify better the history of the tank the > Goldfish > > are in now. > > > The original occupants (mollies) lived maybe 2 months and > were > > all gone by > > > Oct of 2007. My daughter ran the filter continually for at > least > > another 6 > > > months in the hope that she might get more fish, but a job > change > > and fewer > > > hours made it not so. For the next 6 months or so, the filter > was > > run for a > > > few days here and there. About a month ago, the filter was > turned > > off and my > > > dd was planning on draining the tank and selling all the > > components on eBay, > > > but never got around to it. > > > > > > The three goldfish came from my dd's friend's stepmom. They > > arrived in a > > > large Ziploc bag with no supplies and no info other than that > > back problems > > > made it too painful for the stepmom to clean the tank and > they > > needed a new > > > home now. I later was able to glean that she'd had them for > about > > a year in > > > a 10 gallon tank and that there had been a fourth fish, but I > > don't know > > > when or how that one died. > > > > > > The bagged fish were floated in our tank for a half an hour > and > > then > > > gradually introduced to the water and released into our tank. > I > > believe the > > > filter was turned on the day before they arrived, but no > cleaning > > was done. > > > The water was tested and adjusted the day the goldfish > arrived. > > > > > > The tank has a 30 gallon sized AquaClear filter. It has a new > > sponge and > > > carbon, but I left what I thought was the old biofilter in > it. I > > picked up a > > > new biofilter today for changing in a week or so and noticed > that > > it didn't > > > quite look like the one in use. Turns out my dd didn't have a > > biofilter, but > > > instead had an ammonia filter in the top layer. Hopefully > there's > > enough > > > good bacteria in the gravel or left over from the water that > came > > with the > > > goldfish. > > > > > > I'm sure I've missed something, but I can't think what. 2 AM > does > > that to me > > > sometimes, lol. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34389	From: shadow_eyeonx	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "olesonjo" <olesonjo@...> wrote: > > Suddenly the fish, especially one, is darting around frantically, wabbly, eating from the > bottom, and floating on his side, or back, all very rapidly. I have not moved them into the > new tank, still in the 20 gal. > I put some Maracyn-two in the tank, also some salt. I am afraid I am going to lose him, or > both of them. Any suggestions? > Joanna > Hi. I'm new here, so bear with me. I'm new to yahoo altogether and trying to figure how to best navigate through the messages. I did read the replies. There are some things I'd like to point out and I'll add suggestions about caring for the goldfish. Any antibacterial medication can promote "super bugs" in either full or partial doses. It's not the medication, but rather the biology of bacteria that allows for the resistance. Please give a summary of what's in the tank the goldfish you're treating is in. Other than being 20 gallons, what's the filter on it? What substrate is in it? Any tank mates? What are the current water parameters? Please provide numbers of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH results. It will allow me to get a good idea of what's going on biologically with the water. What's the temperature? What does the poop look like? Is it brown, white, clear or red? What I would do is stop the maracyn and clear it out of the aquarium by using fresh carbon and doing a series of small water changes...no more than 25% at a time until 100% is reached. Perhaps once or twice in a day. Then switch medications to a mix of methylene blue and malachite green...half dose of each. In combination, this treats as an anti-protozoal, anti-microbial and anti-parasitic medication and I find it very effective in concert with simple basic first aid health care and water maintenance. Since the fish is scratching, external parasites may be present and many parasites tend to leave behind protozoal infections, which is why I recommend the combo of the two meds. It also helps to use a garlic additive in the food, such as Kent's Garlic Xtreme. This will make the fish taste bad for any potential external parasites looking to latch on. It also helps maintain a good appetite. As of the buoyancy issue, the peas are a good recommendation. You can also wet the dry food as it's put into the tank. Don't let it float on the surface. Sometimes floating around like that could be from ingesting air or dry food expanding in their digestive system.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34390	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!

Joanna, If there is any "poisoning" taking place, as you seem to suggest, it could well be the result of either ammonia poisoning or nitrite poisoning -- neither of which you can determine since up until yesterday at that time you apparently did not have testing equipment (hope you were able to find a master kit for your needs). This would be the first place to look for the cause of such fish behavior, and should now be seen why water tests/monitoring are advocated. In conjuction with this, it should be pointed out that a low pH may additionally (but not necessarily) play a part towards the fish's behavior when accompanied by high nitrite. It is, of course, entirely possible -- and more likely -- that the behavior is due entirely to the fish's condition of health. Fish floating at the surface would more likely be demostrating the results of the effects of internal infection or swim bladdrer disorder. Such fish would then normally appear to swim erractically when trying to correct their swimming position, yet uncontrollably so. If its seen that persistent and deliberate scratching and rubbing (called -- "Flashing") against objects or against the bottom is observed, this is a strong indication of external parasites bothering the fish, quite often being skin flukes (the Trematode -- Gyrodactylus). If this behavior (Flashing) is seen to be more deliberate than random, get back to us on this for further assistance. But I suspect the primary reason is the fish's condition of uncontrolled equilibrium from internal issues. I don't know what you've read in Mardel's (Maracyn's) pamphlet, but "hanging out by bubbles" for an indication for the need for Maracyn II seems quite ambiguous when no other clear symptoms are spelled out. This would be far to indefinitive to point to any fish malady with any certainty, let alone point out the need for any specific medication for treatment in this behavior when a diagnosis is not known. Despite the usually recommendation not to discontinue treatments of any medications once they are started, I would ordinarily think it prudent to stop the use of Maracyn II at this point, removing it, and proceed with a treatment more in line with what is needed to address this condition. It is true that in this hobby we do not need (do not want) mutated pathogens circulating around. This danger is considerably lessened when this possibility is confined to one hobbyists own tanks, especially as in all probability there were no possible pathogens in this case that were present while trying to medicate against this unknown "ghost' of a microbe and medications should not be used arbitrarily and without certain known application of them. However, in this particular set of circumstances, if it proves out that this floating is not just a case of constipation, impacting on the swim bladder -- and green peas (and/or Epsom salts) do not do anything to aleviate this condition -- there well may be some internal bacterial issue at play. Fortunately -- Maracyn II (primarily a gram-negative antibiotic) is one of the few medications are are readily absorpable into the body tissue and will act internally. Therefore, I would continue the use of Maracyn II (Minocycline) for its full treatment, but ONLY if it appears to be necessary if other measures (green peas, etc.) are not meeting with success in clearing up an intestinal bacterial infection -- which we don't yet know if this is present. Here's where too quick of diagnosis comes in, and the dangers of wantonly medicating. It is still not known that this is an intestinal infection. It is widely known that fancy Goldfish in particular are prone to contracting swim bladder infection, as well as systemic Dropsy. So by this it can be seen that its not that easy to pinpoint what's going on here. Dropsy (caused by a Pseudomonas bacteria, gram-negative pathogens) will manifest itself as the scales standing out from the body (pine-cone effect), especially in its latter stages. In these latter stages there is little that can be done as by that time many of the internal organs -- kidney's, etc. -- are beyond repair; if caught early enough, it may be treatable. The other infection mentioned, of the swim bladder, is also most often caused by a Pseudomonas bacteria (even though a different species), so both conditions may be treated uniformly. The medications of choice against Pseudomonas are either Kanamycin or Naladixic Acid (both primarily gram-negative antibiotics), both among the very few readily-absorpable-internally bacticides. I can't tell you if Minocycline would be of help in these two possible maladies, although it should appear to work. I would though be more inclined to switch to one of the medications of choice if it is seen that constipation is not the issue. Keep us posted on this condition, and any further DELIBERATE flashing. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "olesonjo" <olesonjo@...> wrote: > > Yes, fancy gold fish. > I did, in fact, clone the tank yesterday, and was hoping to buy a master tester today, so I > could monitor the water, but the other, non-pneumonia stores I went to didn't have them. > I had a personal emergency/tragedy today, and was not able to make the change to the > larger tank. > > I read on a web link on general facts about GF, that this floating and darting may be due to > poisoning, so was concerned about the need to take them out of the tank. IDK, I will > watch and read some more. > > What food am I giving them? Called Omega One- natural protein formual. I have given the > skinned peas, and added some more water. > > He seems to have calmed down a little now, not darting much, but is still doing acrobatics > and spinning around. His swim bladder certainly looks like it could have been affected > somehow. He does seem to have a slight loss of color, he looks sort of pale yellow, rather > than gold, and was rubbing against stuff, and hanging out by the bubbles. This seems to > be consistent with one of the descriptions of symptoms indicating a need for Marycyn, as > per their pamphlet. > > He may be doing a little better, so... thanks for the tip about the green pea. > Joanna > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > In the future, do NOT put Maracyn 2 (or any other antibiotics) in the tank > > unless you know what is wrong. Using antibiotics when not needed will only > > create antibiotic-resistant bacteria in the long run. > > > > Since you started it, finish the full treatment schedule as only partially > > dosing antibiotics is what will make the bacteria resistant to meds if it > > doesn't kill them with the first partial dose. Keeping good water quality > > is also important to helping their immune systems. > > > > Do you have a master test kit? What are the water parameters? That's the > > first thing to do whenever a fish isn't acting right... check their water. > > I'm kind of remembering that you do not have a test kit yet and have been > > relying on the pet store with the "pneumonia" girl... is this right? If > > yes, then you should have listened to me when I explained how to clone your > > existing tank into the new tank already but since they are still in the 20G, > > that technically makes it easier to treat them so you won't have to use as > > much medicine in the smaller tank volume. > > > > Now.. onto the fish. Since it's having floating issues, feed it green pea > > "meat" (pinch the skin and feed the inside of the pea to the fish). This is > > a treat but it also helps clean them out. Oftentimes, floaty issues are > > digestive gas related. BUT... it can also be related to an internal > > bacterial issue causing swelling that is affecting the swim bladder. The > > first step is to rule out the digestive gas issue, which the pea "meat" will > > help determine. > > > > What kind of food(s) are you feeding the fish. We've discussed this out > > here a lot lately. Do a search in the Message section for goldfish food and > > you'll find our other recent threads. > > > > Are these fancy goldfish or common long-bodied goldfish? If fancies, when > > they get floaty problems, which is common, they will often make darting > > swimming movements to try and get back down to the bottom. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of olesonjo > > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 8:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] !!Trouble with goldfish !! > > > > Suddenly the fish, especially one, is darting around frantically, wabbly, > > eating from the bottom, and floating on his side, or back, all very rapidly. > > I have not moved them into the new tank, still in the 20 gal. > > I put some Maracyn-two in the tank, also some salt. I am afraid I am going > > to lose him, or both of them. Any suggestions? > > Joanna > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34391	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a few in there.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34392	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. If, by chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the surface (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass in any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the filter outlet. A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed up at the surface against their preference as though their swim bladders are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice rather than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible internal infection or not. The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on their bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and is this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect something else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? Are there any other external issues that have recently become apparent? On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you have to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as to compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to 55 gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as again Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced support) at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal between the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and Lenny points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, you need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) in re- conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an environment which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any reptile urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly elevated ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of Jungle Fungus Clear): > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the bottom. She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB also stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. And yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up every little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; Nitrate: between 10 and 20ppm > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist for $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need resealing, but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the plastic frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a fish tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see that it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this tank falls through. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt levels. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water replaced with 1T of salt. > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over the summer. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the > need to question your present salt content and your methods with > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may > be out-dated). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus > Cure) > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as > energetic as yesterday morning > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it > in > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is > not > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > injurious > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's > still > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank > is > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent > PWC's > > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out > you > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, > and > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their > diet > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add > it. > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to > water > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough > water > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not > too > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that > much > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp > per > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > range. > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even > though > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, > if > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae > are > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they > can > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications while > there > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications > (and > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part > of > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > additional > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor > will > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > treatments. > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd > and > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was > off. > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline > with > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the > tank. > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of > the > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal > today, > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > > number of > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to > some > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in > their > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, > it > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > > (unless > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > > gallons > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with > 30 > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd > like to > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can > get > > a > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp > of > > salt > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate > to 4 > > 1/2 > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > > their > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > gallon > > (not 3 > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I > felt it > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > > measure > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > > limits > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > > seeming to > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > having > > the > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > somewhere in > > the > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just > what > > your > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > > adversely > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of > the > > > fungus. > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > > your > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this > is > > the > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of > other > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > > gradually > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > > tolerate > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > Anacharis -- > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of > several > > days > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both > your > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > > suddenly > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > > nitrite > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > nitrate > > was > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > > discrepency > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result > (or > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd > suggest > > you > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > > Those > > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s > Furan > > II, > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > > Buddies -- > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- Ich/Malachite > > Green > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, > Fungal > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat > weak > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > > generally > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the > what we > > > were doing. > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved > at > > all > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems > to be > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of > her > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB > seems > > a > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > getting I > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money > for > > the > > > bigger > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the > water a > > > little (or > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > > enough > > > surface > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That > and > > live > > > plants are > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > > down. > > > Cooler > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven > will > > > start to turn > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't > do a > > PWC > > > yesterday) > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level > so > > I > > > can see > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > > look > > > into an > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right > now. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > > activated > > > carbon will > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- Carbon > also > > does > > > not remove > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just > an A- > > > carbon filter. > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old > home > > and > > > I would > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank > but it > > > simply isn't > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water > that > > > you'll be > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on > my > > > Betta tank was > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose > 1G > > or > > > 2G of water. > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise > syringe > > to > > > worry about > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter > for > > > simplicity... > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's > on a > > > weekly basis. > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst > in > > the > > > world, I > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for > the > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2752208 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2752208> or > > > a $5.00 - > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2754035 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2754035> > > > would last > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank > and > > > changing 25% > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > > years ... > > > probably much > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on > the > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > > water > > > but it's > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > getting > > the > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > online > > from > > > whomever I'm > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying > more > > for > > > shipping > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > > without > > > using the > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use > in > > the > > > future. Test > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor > will > > > break the > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > > through > > > a Brita > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things > (I'll > > > search down > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > > reading > > > is right > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > filter. I > > > don't add > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight > tap > > water > > > and > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > > aeration > > > helps Raven > > > > any. > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > product > > (which > > > one do you > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the > dechlor? > > If > > > you didn't > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see > the > > 0.5ppm > > > after > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your > tap > > > water is > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by > binding > > > chlorine and > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > > especially > > > when cycling > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully > cycled > > > tank, it will > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > handled by > > the > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system > but > > also > > > in other > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the > sickness > > > itself. The > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > > balance > > > with the > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > through > > > cycling issues, > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing > your > > > testing and > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish > needs > > lots > > > of O2 and if > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > This can be > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the > water > > level > > > a little.. > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water > causes > > more > > > surface > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > ingasing/outgasing > > > at the > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the > water. > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and > then > > > you'll have to > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles > > referenced > > > above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She > is > > > doing a lot of > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug- eyes) > is > > > hiding under the > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > started > > > adding the salt. > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and > wants > > to > > > sit on the > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are > slowly > > > disappearing. > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: not > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is > still > > about > > > 25T in a > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > yesterday > > and > > > it's > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to > be a > > > male, I guess > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons > per > > > gallon) are used > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > goldfish... > > and > > > it's > > > > working. > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > > teaspoons > > > per gallon > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will > slowly > > > bring the > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I > started > > > typing my > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already > started > > > doing this.. > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water > just to > > > make sure your > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > teaspoons > > to > > > every five > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use > those > > 5G > > > buckets for > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > > bucket, > > > fill it to > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, > etc.) > > and > > > then slowly > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use > the > > > same mark to > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G > or 3G > > > mark is you > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > > spill a > > > lot when > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, > L" x > > W" x > > > H" and > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > yourself. > > For > > > your > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > > square/rectangular > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. > L" > > x W" > > > x H" = > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse > effect > > on the > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > > probably just > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > healthy > > was > > > more > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > > Sometimes > > > we have to > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely > kills > > off > > > all of the > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > > always > > > hate saying > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every > once > > in a > > > while, we > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > Goldfish > > have a > > > HUGE will > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > > conditions > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > > doesn't > > > give proper > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, > etc.. > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his > sleigh > > for > > > you... and > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > > difficult > > > to sex > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > harder to > > > tell but males > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill > covers > > and > > > the leading > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > > first > > > time and > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white > bumps > > just > > > on the > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that > means > > you > > > have a > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > > rename > > > him to > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the > fish > > to > > > have found > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > > with > > > them. LOL > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > > you'll > > > know what to > > > > look for. > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't > be > > 1.0 > > > again > > > > tomorrow > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was > putting > > in. > > > I just > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking > it > > didn't > > > feel like > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > > Today > > > when I did > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a > ruler > > and > > > it was > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to > count > > > gallons as I > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have > sworn > > my > > > dd told me > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > > yesterday > > > I removed > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > 27.5T. > > > Tonight I removed > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. > The > > fish > > > seem to be > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and > just > > not > > > add any salt > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level > for a > > 20 > > > gallon tank. > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the > extra > > > salt. It's > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > > goldfish. > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 10 > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita > filter): > > > pH:7.4; > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > readings, > > the > > > pH usually > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower > than > > 7.6 > > > and > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range > test > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > > combination > > > pack GH and > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having > the > > > four basics > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > goldfish > > > since your pH > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > > water. > > > As your > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, > then > > the > > > GH and KH > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in > pH > > after > > > a week, > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > > capital > > > H since it > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > > capitalized for > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > Alkalinity in > > > some test > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > > instead > > > of CH is > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > > hardness > > > and Karbonat > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, > thus > > KH. > > > A German > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually > 17.85 > > but > > > 18 for > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > > 180ppm, > > > that would > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. > Where > > do > > > I find test > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > > Detroit > > > area of > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the > summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of > the > > tail > > > and dorsal > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > disappearing. > > > Raven > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > getting > > dark > > > spots, > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but > still > > has > > > a good > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 20 > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > > water > > > with 1T per > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so > made > > mental > > > note to > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems > less > > > obvious and the > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > > white > > > areas, but > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant > as > > always. > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria > in > > there > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the > huge > > > bubbles that > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an > extreme > > bug- > > > eye look, > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > > grasses > > > with > > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe > I'll > > just > > > take a pair > > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least > not > > that > > > I've ever > > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with > decorations, > > > plastic plants, > > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start > clearing > > > up.. 7-10 days > > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how > bad > > it > > > was. Same > > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > > take a > > > while for > > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > > Tablespoons > > > which would > > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have > one > > more > > > dose to > > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > > total of > > > 90 > > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt > should > > start > > > to have a > > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let > us > > know > > > which day > > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with > the > > salt > > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of > 7.5 in > > > your tank. > > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT > let > > the > > > ammonia get > > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > > ammonia in > > > check. > > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it > with > > the > > > same level > > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > > before > > > adding the > > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a > blog > > > article on > > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a > gallon > > > bucket. Test > > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > > dechlor. > > > Test it > > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > > numbers > > > will likely > > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > > baseline. > > > Agitation > > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, > etc. > > > This baseline > > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate > > in > > > your tap > > > > water. > > > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > > groups. I > > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in > an > > email > > > and then I > > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when > I > > get > > > the Daily > > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > > replies > > > to a Daily > > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their > reply. > > I've > > > never seen > > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so > it > > > automatically > > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > > Daily > > > Digests. > > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > > take a > > > few seconds > > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except > for > > the > > > thread they > > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it > doesn't > > > show in reply > > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made > the > > > upgrades to the > > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group > the > > > replies > > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > > messages in > > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > > looking > > > for other > > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > > chronological order.. > > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > > longer > > > threads. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > > whitish > > > areas > > > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the bubble > > eyes. > > > This may be a > > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration won't > mess > > > with that, > > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be > reassured > > than > > > find her > > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over 100 > messages > > in > > > a day, > > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who get > the > > digest > > > version go > > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to find > the > > new > > > messages. > > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online before > getting > > the > > > digest > > > > version. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday (Sunday), not > > because > > > the fish > > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more of the > > white > > > and the > > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the tank > > looking > > > exhausted > > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last treatment. I > was > > using > > > Rid-Ich+. > > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I got > looking > > at > > > all those > > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then I > decided > > to > > > try going > > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking an > > attendant > > > for help. I > > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they give > > customers > > > for rodent > > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on cedar or > pine > > > shavings, that > > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a new > pet > > much > > > sooner, > > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So does > > keeping > > > them in > > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). It's all > I > > had > > > time for. > > > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday > afternoon > > and > > > the only > > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the aquarium > > sealant. > > > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night > (Sunday) > > before > > > going to > > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. I > added > > > another 2T > > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added salt to > the > > > replacement > > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so there is > a > > total > > > of 6T in > > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the > morning > > and > > > 20T tomorrow > > > > night. > > > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - short > for > > > Carol Burnett) > > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling with the > > other > > > two (Lucille > > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have names.). > Her > > (?) > > > dorsal fin > > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. Nitrite is > > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, even > though > > it > > > makes me > > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the Ratlist. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before proceeding > > with > > > adding > > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia reading > and a > > > higher nitrite > > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not > complete. If > > > either the > > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your > current > > > nitrite level is > > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the water > will > > > protect the fish > > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to have > but > > you > > > need some to > > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the tank. > Did > > you > > > ever add > > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This would > go > > a > > > long way... > > > > but in further reading this post, you did not actually > have > > an up > > > and > > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In the > > future, > > > it would > > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once the old > > fish > > > were gone or > > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water from > > getting > > > stagnant. > > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and hopefully > there > > > weren't any > > > > nasties still living in your old water that would make > things > > > worse. You've > > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that old > water > > > anyhow. > > > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current meds > (the > > > malachite > > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but you > never > > > mentioned it. > > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame to > work. > > Four > > > days isn't > > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have a > major > > > effect. > > > > From the below instructions that I found on one brand, it > > says to > > > dose the > > > > tank every three days for three treatments which would be > a > > nine > > > day > > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is stronger or > > weaker > > > or what. > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various treatment > > > options... > > > > http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > > > <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > Malachite > > > green: > > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and > protozoan > > > parasites. > > > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually mixed as > a > > stock > > > solution > > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture of > the > > stock > > > solution > > > > varies depending on preference. The main poi<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34393	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that have clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Jim Pat. > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a > few in there.. > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

Depends on what kind of cichlids and how big of a tank. Clown loaches grow to over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or more, although three will sometimes work.... so a very BIG tank would be needed for just the group of clown loaches... 75G or more. They prefer neutral to slightly acidic pH (low) and softer water.... although some report success with acclimating them to harder, higher pH water. See the Mongabay Profile/Care Sheet which also include a SC section (Suggested Companions) that can be a guideline for checking compatibility... but remember that the fish do not always read the same things we do. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Other Clown Loach Profiles/Care Sheets... http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile13.html http://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a few in there.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34395	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

See subject line. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that have clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a > few in there.. > > Thanks, > > Jim > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34396	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

Steve, A few clown loaches', the black and orange striped ones.. Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that have clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > Jim Pat. > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a > > few in there.. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34397	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

Jim, On a side note... many cichlids really do live with clowns... Lenny, \\Steve//, Mike, Ray, etc. LOL My apologies to any other clowns in the group that I did not specifically list. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? Steve, A few clown loaches', the black and orange striped ones.. Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that have clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Jim Pat. > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a > > few in there.. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34398	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

I've even heard a 72" tank recommended as the ideal for clowns. Check out www.loaches.com. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? Depends on what kind of cichlids and how big of a tank. Clown loaches grow to over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or more, although three will sometimes work.... so a very BIG tank would be needed for just the group of clown loaches... 75G or more. They prefer neutral to slightly acidic pH (low) and softer water.... although some report success with acclimating them to harder, higher pH water. See the Mongabay Profile/Care Sheet which also include a SC section (Suggested Companions) that can be a guideline for checking compatibility... but remember that the fish do not always read the same things we do. http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html> mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Other Clown Loach Profiles/Care Sheets... http://badmanstropi <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile13.html> calfish.com/profiles/profile13.html http://www.loaches. <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus> com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a few in there.. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34399	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

Lenny, Thanks, I guess I have some reading to do....;) I have always like the Clown Loach, just an interesting fish... I'll also read up on any less agressive cichlids for the tank... Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Depends on what kind of cichlids and how big of a tank. Clown loaches grow > to over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or more, although > three will sometimes work.... so a very BIG tank would be needed for just > the group of clown loaches... 75G or more. They prefer neutral to slightly > acidic pH (low) and softer water.... although some report success with > acclimating them to harder, higher pH water. > > See the Mongabay Profile/Care Sheet which also include a SC section > (Suggested Companions) that can be a guideline for checking compatibility... > but remember that the fish do not always read the same things we do. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html > > Other Clown Loach Profiles/Care Sheets... > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile13.html > > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia- macracanthus > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in the > tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a few in > there.. > > Thanks, > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34400	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

Very true. When I said 75G or more, I should have said 75G of water volume. As always, to provide adequate swimming room, a tank should be at least 6X longer than the expected adult size of slow swimmers.. 8X longer for fast swimmers... so at least a 6' tank would be needed for clown loaches.... the longer, the better. Sorry about forgetting you in the clown list. I'm still on my first cup of chicory. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? I've even heard a 72" tank recommended as the ideal for clowns. Check out www.loaches.com. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? Depends on what kind of cichlids and how big of a tank. Clown loaches grow to over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or more, although three will sometimes work.... so a very BIG tank would be needed for just the group of clown loaches... 75G or more. They prefer neutral to slightly acidic pH (low) and softer water.... although some report success with acclimating them to harder, higher pH water. See the Mongabay Profile/Care Sheet which also include a SC section (Suggested Companions) that can be a guideline for checking compatibility... but remember that the fish do not always read the same things we do. http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Other Clown Loach Profiles/Care Sheets... http://badmanstropi <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile13.html <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile13.html> > calfish.com/profiles/profile13.html http://www.loaches. <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus <http://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus> > com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a few in there.. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34401	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

Lenny, Come on, what good are subject lines, except for sorting? You don't mean we actually have to read them now, do you? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > See subject line. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that have > clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Jim Pat. > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a > > few in there.. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34402	From: bill1433	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve//

No, \\Steve// ------what he's really saying is that he's now getting more like me!   Don't attempt anything until your on coffee #3, at least!   Bill --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:08 PM Lenny, Come on, what good are subject lines, except for sorting? You don't mean we actually have to read them now, do you? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > See subject line. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that have > clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of Jim Pat. > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a > > few in there.. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34403	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Dwarf Cichlids

I recently purchased 4 Agassizis Dwarf Cichlids for my 29 gallon tank. Now due to lack of Dwarf cichlid experience I can't tell the difference between male and female. But, that's neither here or there, the issue is that one of them had taken on a dark blotchy pattern, and has taken refuge in the driftwood in the tank. It has also become very defensive of that territory, and no fish can come remotely close to it which is very hard in a 29 gallon. Now on to the question, is that because it has spawned (where the territory is I can't tell if there are eggs due to positioning) or, is this particular cichlid just proving his or her dominance? The latter would be very interesting due to its size.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34404	From: olesonjo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!

Thanks everyone for all the comments and advice. I am reading everything. I truly appreciate your knowledge, commitment, and willingness to help. The fish ( two fancy goldfish, one male, black and gold Moor ( he was affected the most), one calico female ) are doing much better today. I will get some means of testing the water today, and go over all options. I know I panicked last night. He was just flipping and spinning and darting, it seemed so frantic, and I did get frightened. The male did have dropsy in mid October. I treated him with the Maracyn two and with lifeguard, and he recovered. I think that recent incident exacerbated my fear and concern about his symptoms. I have been working on getting ready to move them to a 55g tank. On Thursday I did PWC several times. I put the small filter carbon pouch ( from the Whisper C) in the new, larger filter Aqua Clear 70) to run it for a while, and then put it back. I was worried that after returning the carbon pouch to the small filter, it may have introduced some of the elevated ammonia level. But that seem so unlikely, as the large tank had only a slight elevation of amm. When I had the water in the 20g tested last week, it was fine on all measures. I have a heater in the tank, but it doesn't seem to heat the water above 68 degrees, so may need a new heater. The poop was white last night, today, maybe a little green ( after all the peas) I may have used the term "cloning" the tank differently. I was looking at it as a process. I should have said Iwas in the process of cloning the tank. I have not completed it, because I was hesitant to move the fish ( and the water and all other objects) without first having some means to test the water. I am always very cautious about using any chemicals or sprays. I tend to use more natural cleaners, when I must clean. LOL I was trying to think of what could have contaminated the tank (if anything), or how the ammonia level could have gone up to a toxic level ( if the poisoning, hypothesis was correct ) They do love the pea "meat." It is a little difficult to know right now, if the improvement is due to the peas or the M-II. But I will read everything you all have written again and test the water, and get back to you. "Hanging out by the bubbles" was my comment, not from the Mardel pamphlet, but I thought it was somewhat consistent with their " rubbing or scratching" in describing Velvet or protozoan disease. Sorry for the confusion. I just felt so helpless to see him thrashing about, and not knowing what to do. I did notice today, that the male has one yellowish/ white spot on the right side, midway up on his body, above the anus fin. I will do a PWC in the 20g now. Later, I will write with more info on the parameters of the tank. Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shadow_eyeonx" <shadow_eyeonx@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "olesonjo" <olesonjo@> wrote: > > > > Suddenly the fish, especially one, is darting around frantically, > wabbly, eating from the > > bottom, and floating on his side, or back, all very rapidly. I have > not moved them into the > > new tank, still in the 20 gal. > > I put some Maracyn-two in the tank, also some salt. I am afraid I > am going to lose him, or > > both of them. Any suggestions? > > Joanna > > > > Hi. I'm new here, so bear with me. I'm new to yahoo altogether and > trying to figure how to best navigate through the messages. I did > read the replies. There are some things I'd like to point out and > I'll add suggestions about caring for the goldfish. > > Any antibacterial medication can promote "super bugs" in either full > or partial doses. It's not the medication, but rather the biology of > bacteria that allows for the resistance. > > Please give a summary of what's in the tank the goldfish you're > treating is in. Other than being 20 gallons, what's the filter on > it? What substrate is in it? Any tank mates? What are the current > water parameters? Please provide numbers of ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate and pH results. It will allow me to get a good idea of > what's going on biologically with the water. What's the > temperature? What does the poop look like? Is it brown, white, > clear or red? > > What I would do is stop the maracyn and clear it out of the aquarium > by using fresh carbon and doing a series of small water changes...no > more than 25% at a time until 100% is reached. Perhaps once or twice > in a day. Then switch medications to a mix of methylene blue and > malachite green...half dose of each. In combination, this treats as > an anti-protozoal, anti-microbial and anti-parasitic medication and I > find it very effective in concert with simple basic first aid health > care and water maintenance. > > Since the fish is scratching, external parasites may be present and > many parasites tend to leave behind protozoal infections, which is > why I recommend the combo of the two meds. > > It also helps to use a garlic additive in the food, such as Kent's > Garlic Xtreme. This will make the fish taste bad for any potential > external parasites looking to latch on. It also helps maintain a > good appetite. > > As of the buoyancy issue, the peas are a good recommendation. You > can also wet the dry food as it's put into the tank. Don't let it > float on the surface. Sometimes floating around like that could be > from ingesting air or dry food expanding in their digestive system. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve//

Bill, Don't drink coffee at all, unless, maybe, it is coffee frangelica--heavy on the frangelica--and that is usually late at night. I'm sure you would not want me answering posts after 3 or 4 of those, or similarly adulterated coffees. As they say, there is nothing worse than a drunk, unless it is a wide awake drunk! \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 1:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve// > > No, \\Steve// ------what he's really saying is that he's now getting more like me! > > Don't attempt anything until your on coffee #3, at least! > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:08 PM > > > > > > > Lenny, > > Come on, what good are subject lines, except for sorting? You don't mean > we actually have to read them now, do you? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > Chiclid's? > > > > See subject line. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:53 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > Chiclid's? > > > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that > have > > clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On Behalf Of Jim Pat. > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have > a > > > few in there.. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jim > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!

Remember that if you have a filter system running on an inhabited tank, and that filter is "cycled", if you move it to a tank with no fish, the good nitrifying bacteria (nitrogen cycle bacteria) will die off with no ammonia/nitrites to eat. DO NOT move the cycled filter to the new tank until you also move the fish. 68F is OK for goldfish as long as both tanks have the same temp when you move the goldfish. The white poop... was it actually white and was it stringy or was it off-white, as in the color of the food you fed them? If it was white and stringy, that is indicative of internal parasitic or digestive bacterial issues.. more likely parasitic. This is caused by the parasites eating the food and getting the nourishment rather than the goldfish. DO NOT PANIC though. Just keep an eye on them to see which fish has the stringy white poop.. if any. If it's the normal fuller poop, then disregard this paragraph for now. Goldfish poop should come out the same color as whatever they ate... as you saw when feeding them pea "meat", the poop came out green. They do not have much of a stomach so anything they eat is quickly processed and passed through their system. This is why they are perpetually hungry and why I feed mine a few times a day but only small amounts.. and quality foods.. so hopefully the food they eat will stay in them a little longer so they can absorb the nutrients. If the change in color is not part of any kind of external fungus or injury, then don't be overly concerned. Calico goldfish and even solid colored goldfish will change colors many times throughout their lives. It's just part of their genetics from the inbreeding that has taken place to create the man-made fancy goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olesonjo Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !! Thanks everyone for all the comments and advice. I am reading everything. I truly appreciate your knowledge, commitment, and willingness to help. The fish ( two fancy goldfish, one male, black and gold Moor ( he was affected the most), one calico female ) are doing much better today. I will get some means of testing the water today, and go over all options. I know I panicked last night. He was just flipping and spinning and darting, it seemed so frantic, and I did get frightened. The male did have dropsy in mid October. I treated him with the Maracyn two and with lifeguard, and he recovered. I think that recent incident exacerbated my fear and concern about his symptoms. I have been working on getting ready to move them to a 55g tank. On Thursday I did PWC several times. I put the small filter carbon pouch ( from the Whisper C) in the new, larger filter Aqua Clear 70) to run it for a while, and then put it back. I was worried that after returning the carbon pouch to the small filter, it may have introduced some of the elevated ammonia level. But that seem so unlikely, as the large tank had only a slight elevation of amm. When I had the water in the 20g tested last week, it was fine on all measures. I have a heater in the tank, but it doesn't seem to heat the water above 68 degrees, so may need a new heater. The poop was white last night, today, maybe a little green ( after all the peas) I may have used the term "cloning" the tank differently. I was looking at it as a process. I should have said Iwas in the process of cloning the tank. I have not completed it, because I was hesitant to move the fish ( and the water and all other objects) without first having some means to test the water. I am always very cautious about using any chemicals or sprays. I tend to use more natural cleaners, when I must clean. LOL I was trying to think of what could have contaminated the tank (if anything), or how the ammonia level could have gone up to a toxic level ( if the poisoning, hypothesis was correct ) They do love the pea "meat." It is a little difficult to know right now, if the improvement is due to the peas or the M-II. But I will read everything you all have written again and test the water, and get back to you. "Hanging out by the bubbles" was my comment, not from the Mardel pamphlet, but I thought it was somewhat consistent with their " rubbing or scratching" in describing Velvet or protozoan disease. Sorry for the confusion. I just felt so helpless to see him thrashing about, and not knowing what to do. I did notice today, that the male has one yellowish/ white spot on the right side, midway up on his body, above the anus fin. I will do a PWC in the 20g now. Later, I will write with more info on the parameters of the tank. Joanna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "shadow_eyeonx" <shadow_eyeonx@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "olesonjo" <olesonjo@> wrote: > > > > Suddenly the fish, especially one, is darting around frantically, > wabbly, eating from the > > bottom, and floating on his side, or back, all very rapidly. I have > not moved them into the > > new tank, still in the 20 gal. > > I put some Maracyn-two in the tank, also some salt. I am afraid I > am going to lose him, or > > both of them. Any suggestions? > > Joanna > > > > Hi. I'm new here, so bear with me. I'm new to yahoo altogether and > trying to figure how to best navigate through the messages. I did read > the replies. There are some things I'd like to point out and I'll add > suggestions about caring for the goldfish. > > Any antibacterial medication can promote "super bugs" in either full > or partial doses. It's not the medication, but rather the biology of > bacteria that allows for the resistance. > > Please give a summary of what's in the tank the goldfish you're > treating is in. Other than being 20 gallons, what's the filter on it? > What substrate is in it? Any tank mates? What are the current water > parameters? Please provide numbers of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH > results. It will allow me to get a good idea of what's going on > biologically with the water. What's the temperature? What does the > poop look like? Is it brown, white, clear or red? > > What I would do is stop the maracyn and clear it out of the aquarium > by using fresh carbon and doing a series of small water changes...no > more than 25% at a time until 100% is reached. Perhaps once or twice > in a day. Then switch medications to a mix of methylene blue and > malachite green...half dose of each. In combination, this treats as an > anti-protozoal, anti-microbial and anti-parasitic medication and I > find it very effective in concert with simple basic first aid health > care and water maintenance. > > Since the fish is scratching, external parasites may be present and > many parasites tend to leave behind protozoal infections, which is why > I recommend the combo of the two meds. > > It also helps to use a garlic additive in the food, such as Kent's > Garlic Xtreme. This will make the fish taste bad for any potential > external parasites looking to latch on. It also helps maintain a good > appetite. > > As of the buoyancy issue, the peas are a good recommendation. You can > also wet the dry food as it's put into the tank. Don't let it float on > the surface. Sometimes floating around like that could be from > ingesting air or dry food expanding in their digestive system. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34407	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve//

Hey now!!! I resemble those remarks!!! Oops.. I meant resent those remarks!!! Hiccup! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 1:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve// Bill, Don't drink coffee at all, unless, maybe, it is coffee frangelica--heavy on the frangelica--and that is usually late at night. I'm sure you would not want me answering posts after 3 or 4 of those, or similarly adulterated coffees. As they say, there is nothing worse than a drunk, unless it is a wide awake drunk! \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 1:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve// > > No, \\Steve// ------what he's really saying is that he's now getting more like me! > > Don't attempt anything until your on coffee #3, at least! > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:08 PM > > > > > > > Lenny, > > Come on, what good are subject lines, except for sorting? You don't mean > we actually have to read them now, do you? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > Chiclid's? > > > > See subject line. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:53 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > Chiclid's? > > > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that > have > > clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On Behalf Of Jim Pat. > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have > a > > > few in there.. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jim > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34408	From: bill1433	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve//

\\Steve//   Now I'll tell you how bad I am?  Coffee Frangelica?  I actually had to look that one up! The regular coffee is bad enough but even for me, not at after 3pm........ I'd never get to sleep!  With your brand mentioned above?  I might not ever wake up!   Be good, always glad to hear from you! Oh, I forgot!  On the drunks?  Yes there is!!!! A drunk who is sound asleep but is dreaming about being awake!   Bill --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve// To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 2:08 PM Bill, Don't drink coffee at all, unless, maybe, it is coffee frangelica-- heavy on the frangelica-- and that is usually late at night. I'm sure you would not want me answering posts after 3 or 4 of those, or similarly adulterated coffees. As they say, there is nothing worse than a drunk, unless it is a wide awake drunk! \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 1:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\ Steve// > > No, \\Steve// ------what he's really saying is that he's now getting more like me! > > Don't attempt anything until your on coffee #3, at least! > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:08 PM > > > > > > > Lenny, > > Come on, what good are subject lines, except for sorting? You don't mean > we actually have to read them now, do you? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > Chiclid's? > > > > See subject line. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:53 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > Chiclid's? > > > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that > have > > clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On Behalf Of Jim Pat. > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have > a > > > few in there.. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34409	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Gravel

How much gravel would I need for a 10 or 20 Gallon tank? Just debating whether I wanna get a bigger tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve//

Just remember during these holiday times... don't drink and drive... you might hit a pothole and spill your drink. Now that's alcohol abuse!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve// \\Steve// Now I'll tell you how bad I am? Coffee Frangelica? I actually had to look that one up! The regular coffee is bad enough but even for me, not at after 3pm........ I'd never get to sleep! With your brand mentioned above? I might not ever wake up! Be good, always glad to hear from you! Oh, I forgot! On the drunks? Yes there is!!!! A drunk who is sound asleep but is dreaming about being awake! Bill --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\Steve// To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 2:08 PM Bill, Don't drink coffee at all, unless, maybe, it is coffee frangelica-- heavy on the frangelica-- and that is usually late at night. I'm sure you would not want me answering posts after 3 or 4 of those, or similarly adulterated coffees. As they say, there is nothing worse than a drunk, unless it is a wide awake drunk! \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 1:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?\\ Steve// > > No, \\Steve// ------what he's really saying is that he's now getting more like me! > > Don't attempt anything until your on coffee #3, at least! > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:08 PM > > > > > > > Lenny, > > Come on, what good are subject lines, except for sorting? You don't mean > we actually have to read them now, do you? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > Chiclid's? > > > > See subject line. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to articles > > referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:53 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > Chiclid's? > > > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that > have > > clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > > On Behalf Of Jim Pat. > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have > a > > > few in there.. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34411	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel

Depends. If you are planning on a planted tank, then 2" to 3" of gravel. If you are not planning on live plants, then 1/2" to 1" of gravel (meaning it's a lot easier to siphon clean). I have the 1/2" to 1" in my 65G goldfish tank but then I have my live plants planted in 2" and 3" clay pots so they have a proper substrate. Other containers for live plants that blend in better than the clay pots are the little clear plastic Zip-Loc containers that can be 1 1/2" high which would be deep enough also. When I cloned a 29G to a 65G, I used the same gravel that was 3" deep in the 29G and it is now the 1/2" to 1" deep in the 65G. You don't have to buy expensive aquarium gravel. You can get pea gravel much, much cheaper at a garden center or stone center. I think pea gravel looks so much better and more natural compared to all the vivid colors of the aquarium gravel. To figure out how much pea gravel you will want/need. Measure the footprint of the tank.. lets assume a 10G at 20" x 10" by 1" deep of gravel, so 200 cubic inches of gravel for 1" of gravel in the tank. Now take a small empty box, like a shoe box and measure it. Let's say it's 12" x 6" (72 square inches) for example. 1" deep in the shoe box would be 72 cubic inches. 2" would be 144 cubic inches. 3" would be 216 cubic inches. Since you were looking for 200 cubic inches for 1" of gravel in the 10G then have the garden center fill up the shoe box with 3" of pea gravel for a couple of dollars (at most) and you will have enough gravel for 1" in the 10G tank. Pour it in a large colander at home and rinse it well. While you are rinsing it, get a large pot, half full of water boiling on the stove. Add the gravel to the pot and boil the gravel for 10-30 minutes and that should kill any possible pathogens in the gravel and clean it even more. Let it drain and cool off in the colander and it's ready for the tank. And you can always make the front 1/2" deep and the back 1 1/2" deep or however you like it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel How much gravel would I need for a 10 or 20 Gallon tank? Just debating whether I wanna get a bigger tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34412	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel

Okay. Prob not a planted tank cuz I tried that once and the plants took over my underwater kingdom! lol. I'll stick with the artificial plants. I like to have stuff for my baby guppies to hide in, tho...lol. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 3:48:10 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gravel Depends. If you are planning on a planted tank, then 2" to 3" of gravel. If you are not planning on live plants, then 1/2" to 1" of gravel (meaning it's a lot easier to siphon clean). I have the 1/2" to 1" in my 65G goldfish tank but then I have my live plants planted in 2" and 3" clay pots so they have a proper substrate. Other containers for live plants that blend in better than the clay pots are the little clear plastic Zip-Loc containers that can be 1 1/2" high which would be deep enough also. When I cloned a 29G to a 65G, I used the same gravel that was 3" deep in the 29G and it is now the 1/2" to 1" deep in the 65G. You don't have to buy expensive aquarium gravel. You can get pea gravel much, much cheaper at a garden center or stone center. I think pea gravel looks so much better and more natural compared to all the vivid colors of the aquarium gravel. To figure out how much pea gravel you will want/need. Measure the footprint of the tank.. lets assume a 10G at 20" x 10" by 1" deep of gravel, so 200 cubic inches of gravel for 1" of gravel in the tank. Now take a small empty box, like a shoe box and measure it. Let's say it's 12" x 6" (72 square inches) for example. 1" deep in the shoe box would be 72 cubic inches. 2" would be 144 cubic inches. 3" would be 216 cubic inches. Since you were looking for 200 cubic inches for 1" of gravel in the 10G then have the garden center fill up the shoe box with 3" of pea gravel for a couple of dollars (at most) and you will have enough gravel for 1" in the 10G tank. Pour it in a large colander at home and rinse it well. While you are rinsing it, get a large pot, half full of water boiling on the stove. Add the gravel to the pot and boil the gravel for 10-30 minutes and that should kill any possible pathogens in the gravel and clean it even more. Let it drain and cool off in the colander and it's ready for the tank. And you can always make the front 1/2" deep and the back 1 1/2" deep or however you like it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel How much gravel would I need for a 10 or 20 Gallon tank? Just debating whether I wanna get a bigger tank. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34413	From: bill1433	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel

Yes, and what size gravel washer would you recommend for pea gravel?  The 3/8th or 1/2" hose?  Will the 3/8 actually pick up this size to wash it?   Bill----------------and finished my last cup at 2:45pm --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gravel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 3:48 PM Depends. If you are planning on a planted tank, then 2" to 3" of gravel. If you are not planning on live plants, then 1/2" to 1" of gravel (meaning it's a lot easier to siphon clean). I have the 1/2" to 1" in my 65G goldfish tank but then I have my live plants planted in 2" and 3" clay pots so they have a proper substrate. Other containers for live plants that blend in better than the clay pots are the little clear plastic Zip-Loc containers that can be 1 1/2" high which would be deep enough also. When I cloned a 29G to a 65G, I used the same gravel that was 3" deep in the 29G and it is now the 1/2" to 1" deep in the 65G. You don't have to buy expensive aquarium gravel. You can get pea gravel much, much cheaper at a garden center or stone center. I think pea gravel looks so much better and more natural compared to all the vivid colors of the aquarium gravel. To figure out how much pea gravel you will want/need. Measure the footprint of the tank.. lets assume a 10G at 20" x 10" by 1" deep of gravel, so 200 cubic inches of gravel for 1" of gravel in the tank. Now take a small empty box, like a shoe box and measure it. Let's say it's 12" x 6" (72 square inches) for example. 1" deep in the shoe box would be 72 cubic inches. 2" would be 144 cubic inches. 3" would be 216 cubic inches. Since you were looking for 200 cubic inches for 1" of gravel in the 10G then have the garden center fill up the shoe box with 3" of pea gravel for a couple of dollars (at most) and you will have enough gravel for 1" in the 10G tank. Pour it in a large colander at home and rinse it well. While you are rinsing it, get a large pot, half full of water boiling on the stove. Add the gravel to the pot and boil the gravel for 10-30 minutes and that should kill any possible pathogens in the gravel and clean it even more. Let it drain and cool off in the colander and it's ready for the tank. And you can always make the front 1/2" deep and the back 1 1/2" deep or however you like it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel How much gravel would I need for a 10 or 20 Gallon tank? Just debating whether I wanna get a bigger tank. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34414	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

Ahem! Yes, and they do very well with this clown :) Tonight I am off to the PCCA where we will be celebrating the "Dead Fish Society" and the founding members of that esteemed society. -Mike Jim, On a side note... many cichlids really do live with clowns... Lenny, \\Steve//, Mike, Ray, etc. LOL My apologies to any other clowns in the group that I did not specifically list. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 8:12 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? Jim, On a side note... many cichlids really do live with clowns... Lenny, \\Steve//, Mike, Ray, etc. LOL My apologies to any other clowns in the group that I did not specifically list. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? Steve, A few clown loaches', the black and orange striped ones.. Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Aq uaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish that have clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > Jim Pat. > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's in > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to have a > > few in there.. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34415	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's?

Mike, Is the DFS anything like the RIAS (Rambling Idiots Aquarium Society) was? Sometimes I long for the auctions that were held, the alcohol that was drunk, both prior to a meeting and during the meeting. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Deenerz@... > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 4:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > Ahem! > > Yes, and they do very well with this clown :) > > Tonight I am off to the PCCA where we will be celebrating the "Dead Fish Society" and the > founding members of that esteemed society. > > -Mike > > > > Jim, > > > > On a side note... many cichlids really do live with clowns... Lenny, > > \\Steve//, Mike, Ray, etc. LOL > > > > My apologies to any other clowns in the group that I did not specifically > > list. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 8:12 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim, > > > > On a side note... many cichlids really do live with clowns... Lenny, > > \\Steve//, Mike, Ray, etc. LOL > > > > My apologies to any other clowns in the group that I did not specifically > > list. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > Steve, > > > > A few clown loaches', the black and orange striped ones.. > > > > Jim > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Aq > uaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish > > that have clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of > > > > Jim Pat. > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > > Chiclid's? > > > > > > > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's > > in > > > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to > > have a > > > > few in there.. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Jim > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34416	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: OT off beat fish clubs. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loac

\\Steve//, I think both groups are cut from the same cloth. Before we moved to our new location we always had dinner before with Beer flowing freely and then march across the street to bid more than we should for fish. Good times, not as frequent as before but we still meet before hand at Jim's shop and have some before before the meeting starts. Cannot have too much beer as all the equipment for the meeting is there and if we don't make it the meetings would be pretty quiet with no sound system, projector, or laptop to run the presentation with. Speaking of meetings, I am in charge of purchasing and have no fish to bring to the meeting. I better get off my arse and buy some fish for the auction or they may auction me off to the lowest bidder for tank cleaning duty! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 1:57 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? Mike, Is the DFS anything like the RIAS (Rambling Idiots Aquarium Society) was? Sometimes I long for the auctions that were held, the alcohol that was drunk, both prior to a meeting and during the meeting. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Deenerz@... > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 4:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > Ahem! > > Yes, and they do very well with this clown :) > > Tonight I am off to the PCCA where we will be celebrating the "Dead Fish Society" and the > founding members of that esteemed society. > > -Mike > > > > Jim, > > > > On a side note... many cichlids really do live with clowns... Lenny, > > \\Steve//, Mike, Ray, etc. LOL > > > > My apologies to any other clowns in the group that I did not specifically > > list. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 8:12 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim, > > > > On a side note... many cichlids really do live with clowns... Lenny, > > \\Steve//, Mike, Ray, etc. LOL > > > > My apologies to any other clowns in the group that I did not specifically > > list. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > Steve, > > > > A few clown loaches', the black and orange striped ones.. > > > > Jim > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Aq > uaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > > > What, exactly, do you mean by clowns? There are a number of fish > > that have clown in their common names, even, at least, one cichlid. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of > > > > Jim Pat. > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > > Chiclid's? > > > > > > > > > > > > My goal is to have a chliclid tank, but, can I have a few Clown's > > in > > > > the tank as well? I have always liked Clowns and would like to > > have a > > > > few in there.. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Gravel

I'm not sure that it matters. The size hose has more to do with how much water volume it will remove in a faster manner. If you have big tanks, then 3/4" or 1" line with a 2" or 2 1/2" siphon tube would be in order. For a 10G tank, a 3/8" line with a 1" tube would be all that is needed... but the larger could also be used. I use my Python, which has 3/4" line with a 2" siphon tube, even on my 10G tank, but I do throttle back the suction by shutting the valve a little, otherwise it would suck up 2.5G of water before I got the siphon tube to the bottom. LOL The larger diameter siphon tube just makes it easier/faster to clean the gravel since you are covering more square inches with each plunge into the gravel... kind of like sweeping a large room with a big push broom versus a regular home broom. The smaller diameter tube is better for heavily planted tanks and for getting into tight areas but for wide open spaces or tanks with fake plants, then the larger diameter tube makes it quicker. I don't think you need to lift the gravel up into the siphon tube in order to vacuum the gravel, although I've seen that happen with light weight gravel. I have black onyx type fancy stones (kind of flat 1" to 2" various shapes) in part of my goldfish tank also so I just poke and prod around them and into the gravel with the siphon tube and it sucks up all the detritus without lifting the stones or even the gravel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 3:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gravel Yes, and what size gravel washer would you recommend for pea gravel? The 3/8th or 1/2" hose? Will the 3/8 actually pick up this size to wash it? Bill----------------and finished my last cup at 2:45pm --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gravel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 3:48 PM Depends. If you are planning on a planted tank, then 2" to 3" of gravel. If you are not planning on live plants, then 1/2" to 1" of gravel (meaning it's a lot easier to siphon clean). I have the 1/2" to 1" in my 65G goldfish tank but then I have my live plants planted in 2" and 3" clay pots so they have a proper substrate. Other containers for live plants that blend in better than the clay pots are the little clear plastic Zip-Loc containers that can be 1 1/2" high which would be deep enough also. When I cloned a 29G to a 65G, I used the same gravel that was 3" deep in the 29G and it is now the 1/2" to 1" deep in the 65G. You don't have to buy expensive aquarium gravel. You can get pea gravel much, much cheaper at a garden center or stone center. I think pea gravel looks so much better and more natural compared to all the vivid colors of the aquarium gravel. To figure out how much pea gravel you will want/need. Measure the footprint of the tank.. lets assume a 10G at 20" x 10" by 1" deep of gravel, so 200 cubic inches of gravel for 1" of gravel in the tank. Now take a small empty box, like a shoe box and measure it. Let's say it's 12" x 6" (72 square inches) for example. 1" deep in the shoe box would be 72 cubic inches. 2" would be 144 cubic inches. 3" would be 216 cubic inches. Since you were looking for 200 cubic inches for 1" of gravel in the 10G then have the garden center fill up the shoe box with 3" of pea gravel for a couple of dollars (at most) and you will have enough gravel for 1" in the 10G tank. Pour it in a large colander at home and rinse it well. While you are rinsing it, get a large pot, half full of water boiling on the stove. Add the gravel to the pot and boil the gravel for 10-30 minutes and that should kill any possible pathogens in the gravel and clean it even more. Let it drain and cool off in the colander and it's ready for the tank. And you can always make the front 1/2" deep and the back 1 1/2" deep or however you like it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gravel How much gravel would I need for a 10 or 20 Gallon tank? Just debating whether I wanna get a bigger tank. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34418	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: OT off beat fish clubs. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown

Mike, Much more organized than the RIAS was. Meetings were held at shows, where people may be staying over, and the NEC as well as a few select conventions, or so I heard. Auctions would be of anything that could be found that somehow related to fishkeeping, no matter how tortured the path was. Any monies actually collected went to buy more booze or was donated to the sponsoring organization. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Deenerz@... > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 5:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: OT off beat fish clubs. Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with > Chiclid's? > > \\Steve//, > > I think both groups are cut from the same cloth. > > Before we moved to our new location we always had dinner before with Beer flowing freely > and then march across the street to bid more than we should for fish. Good times, not as > frequent as before but we still meet before hand at Jim's shop and have some before before > the meeting starts. Cannot have too much beer as all the equipment for the meeting is there > and if we don't make it the meetings would be pretty quiet with no sound system, projector, > or laptop to run the presentation with. > > Speaking of meetings, I am in charge of purchasing and have no fish to bring to the meeting. I > better get off my arse and buy some fish for the auction or they may auction me off to the > lowest bidder for tank cleaning duty! > > -Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 1:57 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > Is the DFS anything like the RIAS (Rambling Idiots Aquarium Society) was? Sometimes I long > for the auctions that were held, the alcohol that was drunk, both prior to a meeting and > during the meeting. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > > > Deenerz@... > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 4:36 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Can a few Clown Loaches' live with Chiclid's? > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahem! > > > > > > > > Yes, and they do very well with this clown :) > > > > > > > > Tonight I am off to the PCCA where we will be celebrating the "Dead Fish Society" and the > > > > founding members of that esteemed society. > > > > > > > > -Mike >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34419	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/13/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles Fungus Clear): - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too much. - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food to Omega One pellets) - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably a sign of healing? - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set to 67 during the day and 63 at night. - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related to the fishes' problem? - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate-bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from previous inhabitants. I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd do without you guys. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. If, by chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the surface (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass in any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the filter outlet. A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed up at the surface against their preference as though their swim bladders are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice rather than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible internal infection or not. The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on their bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and is this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect something else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? Are there any other external issues that have recently become apparent? On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you have to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as to compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to 55 gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as again Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced support) at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal between the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and Lenny points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, you need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) in re- conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an environment which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any reptile urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly elevated ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray -----Lenny's reply------ (inserted from different thread for continuity) The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all the medical treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in the hospital would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be absorbed through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out by their kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which is stressful to fish. If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the surface, etc., then it's not O2 issues. And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter return. The bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All the agitation from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there is more gas exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. The up/down hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a tank compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they do not have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I guess if it was a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by removing all the old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a price. I've seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that used to have a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. Tell them how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to about $25.00. ;-) If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that shouldn't affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic of the same length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure the front and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone removed that cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where the glass had to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 pounds of weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me know. I have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives - Year, Month and under Labels) ---My add-on----- (inserted for continuity) Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus Clear. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of Jungle Fungus Clear): > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the bottom. She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB also stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. And yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up every little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; Nitrate: between 10 and 20ppm > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist for $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need resealing, but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the plastic frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a fish tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see that it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this tank falls through. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I figured my salt levels. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water replaced with 1T of salt. > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't make that much of a difference. > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his broken hip over the summer. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find the > need to question your present salt content and your methods with > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only if to > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see that "Carol > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved even > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite as well > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > immediate results, but will always take some time in recuperating. > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 tsp > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes since. > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have reduced > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. If > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would now > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's since last > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now wondering if > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe you > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that your > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially with > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results as > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can often > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the reagents may > be out-dated). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' Fungus > Cure) > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not as > energetic as yesterday morning > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since yesterday's > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; Nitrate: > 10ppm > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and missed it > in > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source water is > not > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > injurious > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we strive > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), there is > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as that's > still > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your tank > is > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more frequent > PWC's > > will keep it under control. Once you get things straightened out > you > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones that the > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to their > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their food, > and > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of their > diet > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you add > it. > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications to > water > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out enough > water > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. You're not > too > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make that > much > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 tsp > per > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > range. > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, even > though > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on some > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is approaching, > if > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. Cyprinidae > are > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- they > can > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications while > there > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some medications > (and > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as part > of > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > additional > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this factor > will > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > treatments. > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were baseline > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be cycling > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes to > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked my dd > and > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that was > off. > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the saline > with > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G in the > tank. > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one of > the > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more normal > today, > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the moment. I > > figured I'd get through this before adding further complications. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now for a > > number of > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would eliminate this > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did to > some > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health in > their > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in reverse, > it > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least to me > > (unless > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity at 20 > > gallons > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up with > 30 > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps you'd > like to > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that we can > get > > a > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 tsp > of > > salt > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would equate > to 4 > > 1/2 > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of salt in > > their > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > gallon > > (not 3 > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more I > felt it > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: this > > measure > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have their > > limits > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some Cichlids > > seeming to > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > having > > the > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > somewhere in > > the > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish just > what > > your > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could act > > adversely > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further advancement of > the > > > fungus. > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale affecting > > your > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know this > is > > the > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit of > other > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is done > > gradually > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants will > > tolerate > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > Anacharis -- > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings of > several > > days > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and both > your > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your cycle > > suddenly > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day your > > nitrite > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > nitrate > > was > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). A > > discrepency > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test result > (or > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, I'd > suggest > > you > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this disease. > > Those > > > medications would include any of the following: A.P.I.'s > Furan > > II, > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear Tank > > Buddies -- > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their main > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- Ich/Malachite > > Green > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not all, > Fungal > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting somewhat > weak > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille and > > generally > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching the > what we > > > were doing. > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't improved > at > > all > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and seems > to be > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the base of > her > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, because CB > seems > > a > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > getting I > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your money > for > > the > > > bigger > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering the > water a > > > little (or > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to create > > enough > > > surface > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. That > and > > live > > > plants are > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 levels > > down. > > > Cooler > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully Raven > will > > > start to turn > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I didn't > do a > > PWC > > > yesterday) > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water level > so > > I > > > can see > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water changes. I'll > > look > > > into an > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget right > now. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but then > > activated > > > carbon will > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- Carbon > also > > does > > > not remove > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably just > an A- > > > carbon filter. > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in my old > home > > and > > > I would > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta tank > but it > > > simply isn't > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of water > that > > > you'll be > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used it on > my > > > Betta tank was > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up to dose > 1G > > or > > > 2G of water. > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very precise > syringe > > to > > > worry about > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur filter > for > > > simplicity... > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% PWC's > on a > > > weekly basis. > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the worst > in > > the > > > world, I > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter for > the > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2752208 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2752208> or > > > a $5.00 - > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > productId=2754035 > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2754035> > > > would last > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap Water > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G tank > and > > > changing 25% > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over 3 > > years ... > > > probably much > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters on > the > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats more > > water > > > but it's > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > getting > > the > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > online > > from > > > whomever I'm > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth paying > more > > for > > > shipping > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap water > > without > > > using the > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will use > in > > the > > > future. Test > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the dechlor > will > > > break the > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water goes > > through > > > a Brita > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty things > (I'll > > > search down > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The zero > > reading > > > is right > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > filter. I > > > don't add > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use straight > tap > > water > > > and > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the extra > > aeration > > > helps Raven > > > > any. > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > product > > (which > > > one do you > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour baseline? > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding the > dechlor? > > If > > > you didn't > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did see > the > > 0.5ppm > > > after > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that your > tap > > > water is > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made by > binding > > > chlorine and > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems alarming, > > especially > > > when cycling > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a fully > cycled > > > tank, it will > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > handled by > > the > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter system > but > > also > > > in other > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as the > sickness > > > itself. The > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain osmoregulatory > > balance > > > with the > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > through > > > cycling issues, > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by doing > your > > > testing and > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? Goldfish > needs > > lots > > > of O2 and if > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > This can be > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering the > water > > level > > > a little.. > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning water > causes > > more > > > surface > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > ingasing/outgasing > > > at the > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to the > water. > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it and > then > > > you'll have to > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles > > referenced > > > above > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good sign. She > is > > > doing a lot of > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug- eyes) > is > > > hiding under the > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > started > > > adding the salt. > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired and > wants > > to > > > sit on the > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches are > slowly > > > disappearing. > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: not > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt is > still > > about > > > 25T in a > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > yesterday > > and > > > it's > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn out to > be a > > > male, I guess > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 teaspoons > per > > > gallon) are used > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > goldfish... > > and > > > it's > > > > working. > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only adding 3 > > teaspoons > > > per gallon > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this will > slowly > > > bring the > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. I > started > > > typing my > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You already > started > > > doing this.. > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement water > just to > > > make sure your > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > teaspoons > > to > > > every five > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people use > those > > 5G > > > buckets for > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in a 5G > > bucket, > > > fill it to > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, salt, > etc.) > > and > > > then slowly > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water out, use > the > > > same mark to > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the 2.5G > or 3G > > > mark is you > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or you'll > > spill a > > > lot when > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your tank, > L" x > > W" x > > > H" and > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > yourself. > > For > > > your > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on any > > > square/rectangular > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the formula. > L" > > x W" > > > x H" = > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an adverse > effect > > on the > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow so it > > > probably just > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > healthy > > was > > > more > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right now. > > Sometimes > > > we have to > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which completely > kills > > off > > > all of the > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing better (I > > always > > > hate saying > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but every > once > > in a > > > while, we > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > Goldfish > > have a > > > HUGE will > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some really bad > > > conditions > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store that > > doesn't > > > give proper > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, cycling, > etc.. > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on his > sleigh > > for > > > you... and > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. It's > > difficult > > > to sex > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > harder to > > > tell but males > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their gill > covers > > and > > > the leading > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these for the > > first > > > time and > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little white > bumps > > just > > > on the > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, that > means > > you > > > have a > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just have to > > rename > > > him to > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of the > fish > > to > > > have found > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so you're OK > > with > > > them. LOL > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding stars/tubercles so > > you'll > > > know what to > > > > look for. > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these goldfish) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it won't > be > > 1.0 > > > again > > > > tomorrow > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I was > putting > > in. > > > I just > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was thinking > it > > didn't > > > feel like > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is 7.5). > > Today > > > when I did > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with a > ruler > > and > > > it was > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure to > count > > > gallons as I > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could have > sworn > > my > > > dd told me > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I figure > > yesterday > > > I removed > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > 27.5T. > > > Tonight I removed > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make 25.6T. > The > > fish > > > seem to be > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC and > just > > not > > > add any salt > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable level > for a > > 20 > > > gallon tank. > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with the > extra > > > salt. It's > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on the > > goldfish. > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 10 > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through Brita > filter): > > > pH:7.4; > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > readings, > > the > > > pH usually > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads lower > than > > 7.6 > > > and > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high range > test > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes a > > combination > > > pack GH and > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, having > the > > > four basics > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > goldfish > > > since your pH > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness in your > > water. > > > As your > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between PWC's, > then > > the > > > GH and KH > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big drops in > pH > > after > > > a week, > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and then a > > capital > > > H since it > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are always > > > capitalized for > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > Alkalinity in > > > some test > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for the KH > > instead > > > of CH is > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees of > > hardness > > > and Karbonat > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate Hardness, > thus > > KH. > > > A German > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm (actually > 17.85 > > but > > > 18 for > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see GH as > > 180ppm, > > > that would > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow morning. > Where > > do > > > I find test > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the Metro > > Detroit > > > area of > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over the > summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the base of > the > > tail > > > and dorsal > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > disappearing. > > > Raven > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > getting > > dark > > > spots, > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, but > still > > has > > > a good > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 Nitrite: .25 > > Nitrate: > > > 20 > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated replacement > > water > > > with 1T per > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water so > made > > mental > > > note to > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the future. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white seems > less > > > obvious and the > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has obvious > > white > > > areas, but > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and elegant > as > > always. > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good bacteria > in > > there > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's aren't the > huge > > > bubbles that > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) an > extreme > > bug- > > > eye look, > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier plastic > > grasses > > > with > > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or maybe > I'll > > just > > > take a pair > > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at least > not > > that > > > I've ever > > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with > decorations, > > > plastic plants, > > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to start > clearing > > > up.. 7-10 days > > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending on how > bad > > it > > > was. Same > > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's going to > > take a > > > while for > > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > > Tablespoons > > > which would > > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still have > one > > more > > > dose to > > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. or a > > total of > > > 90 > > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt > should > > start > > > to have a > > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us updates, let > us > > know > > > which day > > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started with > the > > salt > > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH of > 7.5 in > > > your tank. > > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you do NOT > let > > the > > > ammonia get > > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep the > > ammonia in > > > check. > > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, dose it > with > > the > > > same level > > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be 0.3%) > > before > > > adding the > > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I have a > blog > > > article on > > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, fill a > gallon > > > bucket. Test > > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add your > > dechlor. > > > Test it > > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. The > > numbers > > > will likely > > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap water > > baseline. > > > Agitation > > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 outgasing, > etc. > > > This baseline > > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate > > in > > > your tap > > > > water. > > > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some of my > > groups. I > > > > understand when someone has to leave previous replies in > an > > email > > > and then I > > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going in when > I > > get > > > the Daily > > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when someone > > replies > > > to a Daily > > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in their > reply. > > I've > > > never seen > > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make it so > it > > > automatically > > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when replying to > > Daily > > > Digests. > > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, they'd > > take a > > > few seconds > > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest (except > for > > the > > > thread they > > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so it > doesn't > > > show in reply > > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally made > the > > > upgrades to the > > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do group > the > > > replies > > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had the > > messages in > > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through the D.D. > > looking > > > for other > > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together in > > > chronological order.. > > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll through any > > longer > > > threads. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm > > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still have the > > whitish > > > areas > > > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of t<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34420	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as of 12/10/08. While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced to the aquarium solution bottle. Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source of its cause. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles Fungus Clear): > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too much. > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food to Omega One pellets) > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably a sign of healing? > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related to the fishes' problem? > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from previous inhabitants. > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd do without you guys. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. If, by > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the surface > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass in > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > filter outlet. > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed up at > the surface against their preference as though their swim bladders > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice rather > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > internal infection or not. > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on their > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and is > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect something > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? Are > there any other external issues that have recently become apparent? > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you have > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as to > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to 55 > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as again > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced support) > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal between > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and Lenny > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, you > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) in re- > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an environment > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any reptile > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly elevated > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all the medical > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in the hospital > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be absorbed > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out by their > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which is > stressful to fish. > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the surface, > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter return. The > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All the agitation > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there is more gas > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. The up/down > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a tank > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they do not > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I guess if it was > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by removing all the > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a price. I've > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that used to have > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. Tell them > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to about $25.00. > ;-) > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that shouldn't > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic of the same > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure the front > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone removed that > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where the glass had > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 pounds of > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me know. I > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > ---My add-on----- > (inserted for continuity) > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus Clear. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of Jungle > Fungus Clear): > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the bottom. > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB also > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. And > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up every > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; Nitrate: > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist for > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need resealing, > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the plastic > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a fish > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see that > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this tank > falls through. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I > figured my salt levels. > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't > make that much of a difference. > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his > broken hip over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find > the > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > with > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only > if to > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > that "Carol > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > even > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite > as well > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > recuperating. > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 > tsp > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes > since. > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > reduced > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. > If > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would > now > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > since last > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > wondering if > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe > you > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > your > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially > with > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results > as > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can > often > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > reagents may > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' > Fungus > > Cure) > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not > as > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > yesterday's > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > missed it > > in > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > water is > > not > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > > injurious > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we > strive > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), > there is > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > that's > > still > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your > tank > > is > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > frequent > > PWC's > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > straightened out > > you > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones > that the > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to > their > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their > food, > > and > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of > their > > diet > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you > add > > it. > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications > to > > water > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out > enough > > water > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > You're not > > too > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make > that > > much > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 > tsp > > per > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > > range. > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > even > > though > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on > some > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > approaching, > > if > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > Cyprinidae > > are > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- > they > > can > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > while > > there > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > medications > > (and > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as > part > > of > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > > additional > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this > factor > > will > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > treatments. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > baseline > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be > cycling > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes > to > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked > my dd > > and > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that > was > > off. > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > saline > > with > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G > in the > > tank. > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one > of > > the > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > normal > > today, > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > moment. I > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > complications. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now > for a > > > number of > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > eliminate this > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did > to > > some > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health > in > > their > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > reverse, > > it > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least > to me > > > (unless > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity > at 20 > > > gallons > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up > with > > 30 > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > you'd > > like to > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that > we can > > get > > > a > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 > tsp > > of > > > salt > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would > equate > > to 4 > > > 1/2 > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of > salt in > > > their > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > > gallon > > > (not 3 > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more > I > > felt it > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: > this > > > measure > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have > their > > > limits > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > Cichlids > > > seeming to > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > > having > > > the > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > > somewhere in > > > the > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish > just > > what > > > your > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could > act > > > adversely > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > advancement of > > the > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > affecting > > > your > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know > this > > is > > > the > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit > of > > other > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is > done > > > gradually > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants > will > > > tolerate > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > Anacharis -- > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings > of > > several > > > days > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and > both > > your > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your > cycle > > > suddenly > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day > your > > > nitrite > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > > nitrate > > > was > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). > A > > > discrepency > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test > result > > (or > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, > I'd > > suggest > > > you > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > disease. > > > Those > > > > medications would include any of the following: > A.P.I.'s > > Furan > > > II, > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear > Tank > > > Buddies -- > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their > main > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > Ich/Malachite > > > Green > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > all, > > Fungal > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > somewhat > > weak > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille > and > > > generally > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching > the > > what we > > > > were doing. > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't > improved > > at > > > all > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and > seems > > to be > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > base of > > her > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > because CB > > seems > > > a > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > > getting I > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your > money > > for > > > the > > > > bigger > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering > the > > water a > > > > little (or > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to > create > > > enough > > > > surface > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. > That > > and > > > live > > > > plants are > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 > levels > > > down. > > > > Cooler > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully > Raven > > will > > > > start to turn > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I > didn't > > do a > > > PWC > > > > yesterday) > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water > level > > so > > > I > > > > can see > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > changes. I'll > > > look > > > > into an > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget > right > > now. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but > then > > > activated > > > > carbon will > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > Carbon > > also > > > does > > > > not remove > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably > just > > an A- > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in > my old > > home > > > and > > > > I would > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta > tank > > but it > > > > simply isn't > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of > water > > that > > > > you'll be > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used > it on > > my > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up > to dose > > 1G > > > or > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > precise > > syringe > > > to > > > > worry about > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur > filter > > for > > > > simplicity... > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% > PWC's > > on a > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the > worst > > in > > > the > > > > world, I > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter > for > > the > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2752208 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2754035 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2754035> > > > > would last > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap > Water > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G > tank > > and > > > > changing 25% > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over > 3 > > > years ... > > > > probably much > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters > on > > the > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats > more > > > water > > > > but it's > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > > getting > > > the > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > > online > > > from > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth > paying > > more > > > for > > > > shipping > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap > water > > > without > > > > using the > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will > use > > in > > > the > > > > future. Test > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the > dechlor > > will > > > > break the > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water > goes > > > through > > > > a Brita > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty > things > > (I'll > > > > search down > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The > zero > > > reading > > > > is right > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > > filter. I > > > > don't add > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > straight > > tap > > > water > > > > and > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the > extra > > > aeration > > > > helps Raven > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > > product > > > (which > > > > one do you > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding > the > > dechlor? > > > If > > > > you didn't > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did > see > > the > > > 0.5ppm > > > > after > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that > your > > tap > > > > water is > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made > by > > binding > > > > chlorine and > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > alarming, > > > especially > > > > when cycling > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > fully > > cycled > > > > tank, it will > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > > handled by > > > the > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > system > > but > > > also > > > > in other > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as > the > > sickness > > > > itself. The > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > osmoregulatory > > > balance > > > > with the > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > > through > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by > doing > > your > > > > testing and > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > Goldfish > > needs > > > lots > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > This can be > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering > the > > water > > > level > > > > a little.. > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > water > > causes > > > more > > > > surface > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > at the > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to > the > > water. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it > and > > then > > > > you'll have to > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to > articles > > > referenced > > > > above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > sign. She > > is > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug- > eyes) > > is > > > > hiding under the > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > > started > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired > and > > wants > > > to > > > > sit on the > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches > are > > slowly > > > > disappearing. > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt > is > > still > > > about > > > > 25T in a > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > > yesterday > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn > out to > > be a > > > > male, I guess > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > teaspoons > > per > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > goldfish... > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > adding 3 > > > teaspoons > > > > per gallon > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this > will > > slowly > > > > bring the > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. > I > > started > > > > typing my > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > already > > started > > > > doing this.. > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > water > > just to > > > > make sure your > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > > teaspoons > > > to > > > > every five > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people > use > > those > > > 5G > > > > buckets for > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in > a 5G > > > bucket, > > > > fill it to > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > salt, > > etc.) > > > and > > > > then slowly > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water > out, use > > the > > > > same mark to > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the > 2.5G > > or 3G > > > > mark is you > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or > you'll > > > spill a > > > > lot when > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your > tank, > > L" x > > > W" x > > > > H" and > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > > yourself. > > > For > > > > your > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on > any > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the > formula. > > L" > > > x W" > > > > x H" = > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > adverse > > effect > > > on the > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow > so it > > > > probably just > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > > healthy > > > was > > > > more > > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right > now. > > > Sometimes > > > > we have to > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > completely > > kills > > > off > > > > all of the > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing > better (I > > > always > > > > hate saying > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but > every > > once > > > in a > > > > while, we > > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > > Goldfish > > > have a > > > > HUGE will > > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some > really bad > > > > conditions > > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store > that > > > doesn't > > > > give proper > > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, > cycling, > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on > his > > sleigh > > > for > > > > you... and > > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. > It's > > > difficult > > > > to sex > > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > > harder to > > > > tell but males > > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their > gill > > covers > > > and > > > > the leading > > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these > for the > > > first > > > > time and > > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little > white > > bumps > > > just > > > > on the > > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, > that > > means > > > you > > > > have a > > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just > have to > > > rename > > > > him to > > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of > the > > fish > > > to > > > > have found > > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so > you're OK > > > with > > > > them. LOL > > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding > stars/tubercles so > > > you'll > > > > know what to > > > > > look for. > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these > goldfish) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it > won't > > be > > > 1.0 > > > > again > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I > was > > putting > > > in. > > > > I just > > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was > thinking > > it > > > didn't > > > > feel like > > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is > 7.5). > > > Today > > > > when I did > > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with > a > > ruler > > > and > > > > it was > > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure > to > > count > > > > gallons as I > > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could > have > > sworn > > > my > > > > dd told me > > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I > figure > > > yesterday > > > > I removed > > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > > 27.5T. > > > > Tonight I removed > > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make > 25.6T. > > The > > > fish > > > > seem to be > > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC > and > > just > > > not > > > > add any salt > > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable > level > > for a > > > 20 > > > > gallon tank. > > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with > the > > extra > > > > salt. It's > > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on > the > > > goldfish. > > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 > Nitrite: .25 > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10 > > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through > Brita > > filter): > > > > pH:7.4; > > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > > readings, > > > the > > > > pH usually > > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads > lower > > than > > > 7.6 > > > > and > > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high > range > > test > > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes > a > > > combination > > > > pack GH and > > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, > having > > the > > > > four basics > > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > > goldfish > > > > since your pH > > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness > in your > > > water. > > > > As your > > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between > PWC's, > > then > > > the > > > > GH and KH > > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big > drops in > > pH > > > after > > > > a week, > > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and > then a > > > capital > > > > H since it > > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are > always > > > > capitalized for > > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > > Alkalinity in > > > > some test > > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for > the KH > > > instead > > > > of CH is > > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees > of > > > hardness > > > > and Karbonat > > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate > Hardness, > > thus > > > KH. > > > > A German > > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm > (actually > > 17.85 > > > but > > > > 18 for > > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see > GH as > > > 180ppm, > > > > that would > > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow > morning. > > Where > > > do > > > > I find test > > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the > Metro > > > Detroit > > > > area of > > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over > the > > summer. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the > base of > > the > > > tail > > > > and dorsal > > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > > disappearing. > > > > Raven > > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > > getting > > > dark > > > > spots, > > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, > but > > still > > > has > > > > a good > > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 > Nitrite: .25 > > > Nitrate: > > > > 20 > > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated > replacement > > > water > > > > with 1T per > > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water > so > > made > > > mental > > > > note to > > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the > future. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > 15ppm > > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white > seems > > less > > > > obvious and the > > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has > obvious > > > white > > > > areas, but > > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and > elegant > > as > > > always. > > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good > bacteria > > in > > > there > > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's > aren't the > > huge > > > > bubbles that > > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) > an > > extreme > > > bug- > > > > eye look, > > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier > plastic > > > g<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34421	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

In checking the archives to last Spring, I find it is PetSmart that holds those $1 per gallon sales, you just have to keep looking for them to hold these sales. If you knew for sure that a slate bottom tank was used only for fish, it would be safe after disinfecting it. Otherwise, you'd have to install a 1/4" panel of plate glass over the bottom and seal it in to be assured it would be safe. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from previous inhabitants. > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd do without you guys. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. If, by > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the surface > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass in > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > filter outlet. > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed up at > the surface against their preference as though their swim bladders > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice rather > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > internal infection or not. > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on their > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and is > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect something > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? Are > there any other external issues that have recently become apparent? > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you have > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as to > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to 55 > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as again > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced support) > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal between > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and Lenny > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, you > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) in re- > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an environment > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any reptile > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly elevated > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all the medical > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in the hospital > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be absorbed > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out by their > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which is > stressful to fish. > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the surface, > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter return. The > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All the agitation > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there is more gas > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. The up/down > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a tank > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they do not > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I guess if it was > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by removing all the > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a price. I've > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that used to have > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. Tell them > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to about $25.00. > ;-) > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that shouldn't > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic of the same > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure the front > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone removed that > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where the glass had > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 pounds of > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me know. I > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > ---My add-on----- > (inserted for continuity) > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus Clear. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of Jungle > Fungus Clear): > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the bottom. > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB also > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. And > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up every > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; Nitrate: > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist for > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need resealing, > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the plastic > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a fish > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see that > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this tank > falls through. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I > figured my salt levels. > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't > make that much of a difference. > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his > broken hip over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find > the > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > with > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only > if to > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > that "Carol > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > even > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite > as well > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > recuperating. > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 > tsp > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes > since. > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > reduced > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. > If > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would > now > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > since last > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > wondering if > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe > you > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > your > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially > with > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results > as > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can > often > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > reagents may > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' > Fungus > > Cure) > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not > as > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > yesterday's > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > missed it > > in > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > water is > > not > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > > injurious > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we > strive > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), > there is > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > that's > > still > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your > tank > > is > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > frequent > > PWC's > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > straightened out > > you > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones > that the > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to > their > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their > food, > > and > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of > their > > diet > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you > add > > it. > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications > to > > water > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out > enough > > water > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > You're not > > too > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make > that > > much > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 > tsp > > per > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > > range. > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > even > > though > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on > some > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > approaching, > > if > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > Cyprinidae > > are > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- > they > > can > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > while > > there > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > medications > > (and > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as > part > > of > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > > additional > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this > factor > > will > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > treatments. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > baseline > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be > cycling > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes > to > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked > my dd > > and > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that > was > > off. > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > saline > > with > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G > in the > > tank. > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one > of > > the > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > normal > > today, > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > moment. I > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > complications. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now > for a > > > number of > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > eliminate this > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did > to > > some > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health > in > > their > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > reverse, > > it > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least > to me > > > (unless > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity > at 20 > > > gallons > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up > with > > 30 > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > you'd > > like to > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that > we can > > get > > > a > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 > tsp > > of > > > salt > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would > equate > > to 4 > > > 1/2 > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of > salt in > > > their > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > > gallon > > > (not 3 > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more > I > > felt it > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: > this > > > measure > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have > their > > > limits > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > Cichlids > > > seeming to > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > > having > > > the > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > > somewhere in > > > the > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish > just > > what > > > your > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could > act > > > adversely > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > advancement of > > the > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > affecting > > > your > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know > this > > is > > > the > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit > of > > other > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is > done > > > gradually > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants > will > > > tolerate > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > Anacharis -- > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings > of > > several > > > days > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and > both > > your > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your > cycle > > > suddenly > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day > your > > > nitrite > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > > nitrate > > > was > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). > A > > > discrepency > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test > result > > (or > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, > I'd > > suggest > > > you > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > disease. > > > Those > > > > medications would include any of the following: > A.P.I.'s > > Furan > > > II, > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear > Tank > > > Buddies -- > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their > main > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > Ich/Malachite > > > Green > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > all, > > Fungal > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > somewhat > > weak > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille > and > > > generally > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching > the > > what we > > > > were doing. > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't > improved > > at > > > all > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and > seems > > to be > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > base of > > her > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > because CB > > seems > > > a > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > > getting I > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your > money > > for > > > the > > > > bigger > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering > the > > water a > > > > little (or > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to > create > > > enough > > > > surface > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. > That > > and > > > live > > > > plants are > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 > levels > > > down. > > > > Cooler > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully > Raven > > will > > > > start to turn > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I > didn't > > do a > > > PWC > > > > yesterday) > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water > level > > so > > > I > > > > can see > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > changes. I'll > > > look > > > > into an > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget > right > > now. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but > then > > > activated > > > > carbon will > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > Carbon > > also > > > does > > > > not remove > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably > just > > an A- > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in > my old > > home > > > and > > > > I would > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta > tank > > but it > > > > simply isn't > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of > water > > that > > > > you'll be > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used > it on > > my > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up > to dose > > 1G > > > or > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > precise > > syringe > > > to > > > > worry about > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur > filter > > for > > > > simplicity... > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% > PWC's > > on a > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the > worst > > in > > > the > > > > world, I > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter > for > > the > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2752208 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2754035 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2754035> > > > > would last > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap > Water > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G > tank > > and > > > > changing 25% > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over > 3 > > > years ... > > > > probably much > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters > on > > the > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats > more > > > water > > > > but it's > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > > getting > > > the > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > > online > > > from > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth > paying > > more > > > for > > > > shipping > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap > water > > > without > > > > using the > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will > use > > in > > > the > > > > future. Test > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the > dechlor > > will > > > > break the > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water > goes > > > through > > > > a Brita > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty > things > > (I'll > > > > search down > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The > zero > > > reading > > > > is right > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > > filter. I > > > > don't add > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > straight > > tap > > > water > > > > and > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the > extra > > > aeration > > > > helps Raven > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > > product > > > (which > > > > one do you > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding > the > > dechlor? > > > If > > > > you didn't > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did > see > > the > > > 0.5ppm > > > > after > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that > your > > tap > > > > water is > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made > by > > binding > > > > chlorine and > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > alarming, > > > especially > > > > when cycling > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > fully > > cycled > > > > tank, it will > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > > handled by > > > the > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > system > > but > > > also > > > > in other > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as > the > > sickness > > > > itself. The > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > osmoregulatory > > > balance > > > > with the > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > > through > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by > doing > > your > > > > testing and > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > Goldfish > > needs > > > lots > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > This can be > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering > the > > water > > > level > > > > a little.. > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > water > > causes > > > more > > > > surface > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > at the > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to > the > > water. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it > and > > then > > > > you'll have to > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to > articles > > > referenced > > > > above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > sign. She > > is > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug- > eyes) > > is > > > > hiding under the > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > > started > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired > and > > wants > > > to > > > > sit on the > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches > are > > slowly > > > > disappearing. > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt > is > > still > > > about > > > > 25T in a > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > > yesterday > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn > out to > > be a > > > > male, I guess > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > teaspoons > > per > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > goldfish... > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > adding 3 > > > teaspoons > > > > per gallon > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this > will > > slowly > > > > bring the > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. > I > > started > > > > typing my > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > already > > started > > > > doing this.. > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > water > > just to > > > > make sure your > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > > teaspoons > > > to > > > > every five > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people > use > > those > > > 5G > > > > buckets for > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in > a 5G > > > bucket, > > > > fill it to > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > salt, > > etc.) > > > and > > > > then slowly > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water > out, use > > the > > > > same mark to > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the > 2.5G > > or 3G > > > > mark is you > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or > you'll > > > spill a > > > > lot when > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your > tank, > > L" x > > > W" x > > > > H" and > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > > yourself. > > > For > > > > your > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on > any > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the > formula. > > L" > > > x W" > > > > x H" = > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > adverse > > effect > > > on the > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow > so it > > > > probably just > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > > healthy > > > was > > > > more > > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right > now. > > > Sometimes > > > > we have to > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > completely > > kills > > > off > > > > all of the > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing > better (I > > > always > > > > hate saying > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but > every > > once > > > in a > > > > while, we > > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > > Goldfish > > > have a > > > > HUGE will > > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some > really bad > > > > conditions > > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store > that > > > doesn't > > > > give proper > > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, > cycling, > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on > his > > sleigh > > > for > > > > you... and > > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. > It's > > > difficult > > > > to sex > > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > > harder to > > > > tell but males > > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their > gill > > covers > > > and > > > > the leading > > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these > for the > > > first > > > > time and > > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little > white > > bumps > > > just > > > > on the > > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, > that > > means > > > you > > > > have a > > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just > have to > > > rename > > > > him to > > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of > the > > fish > > > to > > > > have found > > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so > you're OK > > > with > > > > them. LOL > > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding > stars/tubercles so > > > you'll > > > > know what to > > > > > look for. > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these > goldfish) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it > won't > > be > > > 1.0 > > > > again > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I > was > > putting > > > in. > > > > I just > > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was > thinking > > it > > > didn't > > > > feel like > > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is > 7.5). > > > Today > > > > when I did > > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with > a > > ruler > > > and > > > > it was > > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure > to > > count > > > > gallons as I > > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could > have > > sworn > > > my > > > > dd told me > > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I > figure > > > yesterday > > > > I removed > > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > > 27.5T. > > > > Tonight I removed > > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make > 25.6T. > > The > > > fish > > > > seem to be > > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC > and > > just > > > not > > > > add any salt > > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable > level > > for a > > > 20 > > > > gallon tank. > > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with > the > > extra > > > > salt. It's > > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on > the > > > goldfish. > > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 > Nitrite: .25 > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10 > > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through > Brita > > filter): > > > > pH:7.4; > > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > > readings, > > > the > > > > pH usually > > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads > lower > > than > > > 7.6 > > > > and > > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high > range > > test > > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes > a > > > combination > > > > pack GH and > > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, > having > > the > > > > four basics > > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > > goldfish > > > > since your pH > > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness > in your > > > water. > > > > As your > > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between > PWC's, > > then > > > the > > > > GH and KH > > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big > drops in > > pH > > > after > > > > a week, > > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and > then a > > > capital > > > > H since it > > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are > always > > > > capitalized for > > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > > Alkalinity in > > > > some test > > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for > the KH > > > instead > > > > of CH is > > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees > of > > > hardness > > > > and Karbonat > > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate > Hardness, > > thus > > > KH. > > > > A German > > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm > (actually > > 17.85 > > > but > > > > 18 for > > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see > GH as > > > 180ppm, > > > > that would > > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow > morning. > > Where > > > do > > > > I find test > > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the > Metro > > > Detroit > > > > area of > > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over > the > > summer. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the > base of > > the > > > tail > > > > and dorsal > > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > > disappearing. > > > > Raven > > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > > getting > > > dark > > > > spots, > > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, > but > > still > > > has > > > > a good > > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 > Nitrite: .25 > > > Nitrate: > > > > 20 > > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated > replacement > > > water > > > > with 1T per > > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water > so > > made > > > mental > > > > note to > > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the > future. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > 15ppm > > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white > seems > > less > > > > obvious and the > > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has > obvious > > > white > > > > areas, but > > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and > elegant > > as > > > always. > > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good > bacteria > > in > > > there > > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's > aren't the > > huge > > > > bubbles that > > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) > an > > extreme > > > bug- > > > > eye look, > > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier > plastic > > > grasses > > > > with > > > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or > maybe > > I'll > > > just > > > > take a pair > > > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at > least > > not > > > that > > > > I've ever > > > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with > > decorations, > > > > plastic plants, > > > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to > start > > clearing > > > > up.. 7-10 days > > > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending > on how > > bad > > > it > > > > was. Same > > > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's > going to > > > take a > > > > while for > > > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > > > Tablespoons > > > > which would > > > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still > have > > one > > > more > > > > dose to > > > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. > or a > > > total of > > > > 90 > > > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt > > should > > > start > > > > to have a > > > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us > updates, let > > us > > > know > > > > which day > > > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started > with > > the > > > salt > > > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH > of > > 7.5 in > > > > your tank. > > > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you > do NOT > > let > > > the > > > > ammonia get > > > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep > the > > > ammonia in > > > > check. > > > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, > dose it > > with > > > the > > > > same level > > > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be > 0.3%) > > > before > > > > adding the > > > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I > have a > > blog > > > > article on > > > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, > fill a > > gallon > > > > bucket. Test > > > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add > your > > > dechlor. > > > > Test it > > > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. > The > > > numbers > > > > will likely > > > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap > water > > > baseline. > > > > Agitation > > > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 > outgasing, > > etc. > > > > This baseline > > > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, > nitrite, > > nitrate > > > in > > > > your tap > > > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some > of my > > > groups. I > > > > > understand when someone has to leave previous > replies in > > an > > > email > > > > and then I > > > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going > in when > > I > > > get > > > > the Daily > > > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when > someone > > > replies > > > > to a Daily > > > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in > their > > reply. > > > I've > > > > never seen > > > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make > it so > > it<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34422	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

If you join some local fish groups, you can probably find fish fanatics like us that will sell you a used tank for $1 a gallon. I just bought two 55G for niece/nephew Christmas presents at less than that. Since they are fanatics like you and you get to know them a little, you trust that the tank was used for fish, won’t leak, isn’t scratched, etc. I belong to one club (same club as Ray, although I don’t attend often) and two web forums devoted to NY-NJ-CT-PA cichlid keepers. I had the offer of several more tanks that were a little more distance to pick up. Also, when picking up it’s more comfortable to visit the home of a person you’ve talked to and eavesdropped on their posts from for a year than a completely unknown stranger. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? In checking the archives to last Spring, I find it is PetSmart that holds those $1 per gallon sales, you just have to keep looking for them to hold these sales. If you knew for sure that a slate bottom tank was used only for fish, it would be safe after disinfecting it. Otherwise, you'd have to install a 1/4" panel of plate glass over the bottom and seal it in to be assured it would be safe. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from previous inhabitants. > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd do without you guys. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. If, by > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the surface > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass in > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > filter outlet. > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed up at > the surface against their preference as though their swim bladders > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice rather > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > internal infection or not. > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on their > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and is > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect something > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? Are > there any other external issues that have recently become apparent? > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you have > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as to > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to 55 > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as again > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced support) > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal between > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and Lenny > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, you > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) in re- > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an environment > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any reptile > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly elevated > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all the medical > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in the hospital > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be absorbed > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out by their > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which is > stressful to fish. > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the surface, > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter return. The > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All the agitation > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there is more gas > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. The up/down > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a tank > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they do not > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I guess if it was > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by removing all the > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a price. I've > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that used to have > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. Tell them > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to about $25.00. > ;-) > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that shouldn't > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic of the same > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure the front > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone removed that > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where the glass had > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 pounds of > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me know. I > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > ---My add-on----- > (inserted for continuity) > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus Clear. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of Jungle > Fungus Clear): > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the bottom. > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB also > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. And > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up every > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; Nitrate: > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist for > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need resealing, > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the plastic > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a fish > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see that > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this tank > falls through. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I > figured my salt levels. > > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%25> groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't > make that much of a difference. > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his > broken hip over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find > the > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > with > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only > if to > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > that "Carol > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > even > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite > as well > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > recuperating. > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 > tsp > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes > since. > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > reduced > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. > If > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would > now > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > since last > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > wondering if > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe > you > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > your > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially > with > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results > as > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can > often > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > reagents may > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' > Fungus > > Cure) > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not > as > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > yesterday's > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > missed it > > in > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > water is > > not > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > > injurious > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we > strive > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), > there is > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > that's > > still > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your > tank > > is > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > frequent > > PWC's > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > straightened out > > you > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones > that the > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to > their > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their > food, > > and > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of > their > > diet > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you > add > > it. > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications > to > > water > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out > enough > > water > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > You're not > > too > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make > that > > much > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 > tsp > > per > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > > range. > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > even > > though > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on > some > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > approaching, > > if > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > Cyprinidae > > are > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- > they > > can > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > while > > there > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > medications > > (and > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as > part > > of > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > > additional > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this > factor > > will > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > treatments. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > baseline > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be > cycling > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes > to > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked > my dd > > and > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that > was > > off. > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > saline > > with > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G > in the > > tank. > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one > of > > the > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > normal > > today, > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > moment. I > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > complications. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now > for a > > > number of > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > eliminate this > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did > to > > some > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health > in > > their > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > reverse, > > it > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least > to me > > > (unless > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity > at 20 > > > gallons > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up > with > > 30 > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > you'd > > like to > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that > we can > > get > > > a > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 > tsp > > of > > > salt > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would > equate > > to 4 > > > 1/2 > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of > salt in > > > their > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > > gallon > > > (not 3 > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more > I > > felt it > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: > this > > > measure > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have > their > > > limits > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > Cichlids > > > seeming to > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > > having > > > the > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > > somewhere in > > > the > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish > just > > what > > > your > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could > act > > > adversely > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > advancement of > > the > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > affecting > > > your > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know > this > > is > > > the > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit > of > > other > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is > done > > > gradually > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants > will > > > tolerate > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > Anacharis -- > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings > of > > several > > > days > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and > both > > your > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your > cycle > > > suddenly > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day > your > > > nitrite > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > > nitrate > > > was > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). > A > > > discrepency > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test > result > > (or > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, > I'd > > suggest > > > you > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > disease. > > > Those > > > > medications would include any of the following: > A.P.I.'s > > Furan > > > II, > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear > Tank > > > Buddies -- > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their > main > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > Ich/Malachite > > > Green > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > all, > > Fungal > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > somewhat > > weak > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille > and > > > generally > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching > the > > what we > > > > were doing. > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't > improved > > at > > > all > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and > seems > > to be > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > base of > > her > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > because CB > > seems > > > a > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > > getting I > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your > money > > for > > > the > > > > bigger > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering > the > > water a > > > > little (or > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to > create > > > enough > > > > surface > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. > That > > and > > > live > > > > plants are > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 > levels > > > down. > > > > Cooler > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully > Raven > > will > > > > start to turn > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I > didn't > > do a > > > PWC > > > > yesterday) > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water > level > > so > > > I > > > > can see > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > changes. I'll > > > look > > > > into an > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget > right > > now. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but > then > > > activated > > > > carbon will > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > Carbon > > also > > > does > > > > not remove > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably > just > > an A- > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in > my old > > home > > > and > > > > I would > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta > tank > > but it > > > > simply isn't > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of > water > > that > > > > you'll be > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used > it on > > my > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up > to dose > > 1G > > > or > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > precise > > syringe > > > to > > > > worry about > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur > filter > > for > > > > simplicity... > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% > PWC's > > on a > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the > worst > > in > > > the > > > > world, I > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter > for > > the > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> .com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2752208 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> .com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> .com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2754035 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> .com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2754035> > > > > would last > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap > Water > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G > tank > > and > > > > changing 25% > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over > 3 > > > years ... > > > > probably much > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters > on > > the > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats > more > > > water > > > > but it's > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > > getting > > > the > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > > online > > > from > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth > paying > > more > > > for > > > > shipping > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap > water > > > without > > > > using the > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will > use > > in > > > the > > > > future. Test > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the > dechlor > > will > > > > break the > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water > goes > > > through > > > > a Brita > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty > things > > (I'll > > > > search down > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The > zero > > > reading > > > > is right > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > > filter. I > > > > don't add > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > straight > > tap > > > water > > > > and > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the > extra > > > aeration > > > > helps Raven > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > > product > > > (which > > > > one do you > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding > the > > dechlor? > > > If > > > > you didn't > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did > see > > the > > > 0.5ppm > > > > after > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that > your > > tap > > > > water is > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made > by > > binding > > > > chlorine and > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > alarming, > > > especially > > > > when cycling > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > fully > > cycled > > > > tank, it will > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > > handled by > > > the > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > system > > but > > > also > > > > in other > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as > the > > sickness > > > > itself. The > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > osmoregulatory > > > balance > > > > with the > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > > through > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by > doing > > your > > > > testing and > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > Goldfish > > needs > > > lots > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > This can be > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering > the > > water > > > level > > > > a little.. > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > water > > causes > > > more > > > > surface > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > at the > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to > the > > water. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it > and > > then > > > > you'll have to > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to > articles > > > referenced > > > > above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > sign. She > > is > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug- > eyes) > > is > > > > hiding under the > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > > started > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired > and > > wants > > > to > > > > sit on the > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches > are > > slowly > > > > disappearing. > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt > is > > still > > > about > > > > 25T in a > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > > yesterday > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn > out to > > be a > > > > male, I guess > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > teaspoons > > per > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > goldfish... > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > adding 3 > > > teaspoons > > > > per gallon > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this > will > > slowly > > > > bring the > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. > I > > started > > > > typing my > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > already > > started > > > > doing this.. > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > water > > just to > > > > make sure your > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > > teaspoons > > > to > > > > every five > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people > use > > those > > > 5G > > > > buckets for > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in > a 5G > > > bucket, > > > > fill it to > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > salt, > > etc.) > > > and > > > > then slowly > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water > out, use > > the > > > > same mark to > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the > 2.5G > > or 3G > > > > mark is you > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or > you'll > > > spill a > > > > lot when > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your > tank, > > L" x > > > W" x > > > > H" and > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > > yourself. > > > For > > > > your > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on > any > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the > formula. > > L" > > > x W" > > > > x H" = > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > adverse > > effect > > > on the > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow > so it > > > > probably just > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > > healthy > > > was > > > > more > > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right > now. > > > Sometimes > > > > we have to > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > completely > > kills > > > off > > > > all of the > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing > better (I > > > always > > > > hate saying > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but > every > > once > > > in a > > > > while, we > > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > > Goldfish > > > have a > > > > HUGE will > > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some > really bad > > > > conditions > > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store > that > > > doesn't > > > > give proper > > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, > cycling, > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on > his > > sleigh > > > for > > > > you... and > > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. > It's > > > difficult > > > > to sex > > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > > harder to > > > > tell but males > > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their > gill > > covers > > > and > > > > the leading > > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these > for the > > > first > > > > time and > > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little > white > > bumps > > > just > > > > on the > > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, > that > > means > > > you > > > > have a > > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just > have to > > > rename > > > > him to > > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of > the > > fish > > > to > > > > have found > > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so > you're OK > > > with > > > > them. LOL > > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding > stars/tubercles so > > > you'll > > > > know what to > > > > > look for. > > > > > http://thegab. <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > > > <http://thegab. <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these > goldfish) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it > won't > > be > > > 1.0 > > > > again > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I > was > > putting > > > in. > > > > I just > > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was > thinking > > it > > > didn't > > > > feel like > > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is > 7.5). > > > Today > > > > when I did > > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with > a > > ruler > > > and > > > > it was > > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure > to > > count > > > > gallons as I > > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could > have > > sworn > > > my > > > > dd told me > > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I > figure > > > yesterday > > > > I removed > > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > > 27.5T. > > > > Tonight I removed > > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make > 25.6T. > > The > > > fish > > > > seem to be > > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC > and > > just > > > not > > > > add any salt > > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable > level > > for a > > > 20 > > > > gallon tank. > > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with > the > > extra > > > > salt. It's > > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on > the > > > goldfish. > > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 > Nitrite: .25 > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10 > > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through > Brita > > filter): > > > > pH:7.4; > > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > > readings, > > > the > > > > pH usually > > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads > lower > > than > > > 7.6 > > > > and > > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high > range > > test > > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes > a > > > combination > > > > pack GH and > > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, > having > > the > > > > four basics > > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > > goldfish > > > > since your pH > > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness > in your > > > water. > > > > As your > > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between > PWC's, > > then > > > the > > > > GH and KH > > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big > drops in > > pH > > > after > > > > a week, > > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and > then a > > > capital > > > > H since it > > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are > always > > > > capitalized for > > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > > Alkalinity in > > > > some test > > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for > the KH > > > instead > > > > of CH is > > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees > of > > > hardness > > > > and Karbonat > > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate > Hardness, > > thus > > > KH. > > > > A German > > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm > (actually > > 17.85 > > > but > > > > 18 for > > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see > GH as > > > 180ppm, > > > > that would > > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow > morning. > > Where > > > do > > > > I find test > > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in the > Metro > > > Detroit > > > > area of > > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under over > the > > summer. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at the > base of > > the > > > tail > > > > and dorsal > > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is gradually > > > disappearing. > > > > Raven > > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if she's > > getting > > > dark > > > > spots, > > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios today, > but > > still > > > has > > > > a good > > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 > Nitrite: .25 > > > Nitrate: > > > > 20 > > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated > replacement > > > water > > > > with 1T per > > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish water > so > > made > > > mental > > > > note to > > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in the > future. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:58 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (day 2 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 30T of salt > > > > > - pH:7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > 15ppm > > > > > - Fish all acting healthy and happy. CB's white > seems > > less > > > > obvious and the > > > > > shine is returning to her scales. Raven still has > obvious > > > white > > > > areas, but > > > > > they haven't spread. Lucille still pristine and > elegant > > as > > > always. > > > > > - 2nd day of no PWC, so there must be some good > bacteria > > in > > > there > > > > somewhere > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for the info on bubble eyes. Raven's > aren't the > > huge > > > > bubbles that > > > > > you can see light through. They just give her (?) > an > > extreme > > > bug- > > > > eye look, > > > > > but I think I'll replace a couple of the pointier > plastic > > > grasses > > > > with > > > > > something that has a more rounded look to it. Or > maybe > > I'll > > > just > > > > take a pair > > > > > of curved nail clippers to what I've got. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:27 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > NO. The salt will not affect the bubble eyes.. at > least > > not > > > that > > > > I've ever > > > > > seen over the years. But be very careful with > > decorations, > > > > plastic plants, > > > > > etc... anything that could puncture the bubble. > > > > > > > > > > The affected areas will likely take a while to > start > > clearing > > > > up.. 7-10 days > > > > > or more.. to heal up... maybe even more, depending > on how > > bad > > > it > > > > was. Same > > > > > with fin rot.. you can stop the rotting but it's > going to > > > take a > > > > while for > > > > > the fin to grow back. Just to be sure.. you have 20 > > > Tablespoons > > > > which would > > > > > be 60 teaspoons in the tank now.. right? You still > have > > one > > > more > > > > dose to > > > > > build up the salt level to 3 teaspoons per gallon.. > or a > > > total of > > > > 90 > > > > > teaspoons (30 Tablespoons). At that level, the salt > > should > > > start > > > > to have a > > > > > better effect on the disease. When giving us > updates, let > > us > > > know > > > > which day > > > > > also. I think it's just day two that you've started > with > > the > > > salt > > > > > treatment.. right? > > > > > > > > > > Also, I'm worried about the ammonia level with a pH > of > > 7.5 in > > > > your tank. > > > > > It's not at the danger zone yet but make sure you > do NOT > > let > > > the > > > > ammonia get > > > > > over 1.0ppm. You will have to do 25% PWC's to keep > the > > > ammonia in > > > > check. > > > > > When getting ready to replace the removed water, > dose it > > with > > > the > > > > same level > > > > > of salt as your tank (0.2% right now but soon to be > 0.3%) > > > before > > > > adding the > > > > > water to your tank. > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what your tap water baseline pH is? I > have a > > blog > > > > article on > > > > > "Finding Your Tap Water Baseline" but in short, > fill a > > gallon > > > > bucket. Test > > > > > the water for all your tests. Record results. Add > your > > > dechlor. > > > > Test it > > > > > again after 24 hours and then again after 48 hours. > The > > > numbers > > > > will likely > > > > > change after 48 hours and that will be your tap > water > > > baseline. > > > > Agitation > > > > > will speed up the process to increase the CO2 > outgasing, > > etc. > > > > This baseline > > > > > will also let you know if you have ammonia, > nitrite, > > nitrate > > > in > > > > your tap > > > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > In reply to Off-Topic: I get Daily Digests in some > of my > > > groups. I > > > > > understand when someone has to leave previous > replies in > > an > > > email > > > > and then I > > > > > have to see them repeatedly but I know this going > in when > > I > > > get > > > > the Daily > > > > > Digest. The only thing that does rile me is when > someone > > > replies > > > > to a Daily > > > > > Digest and includes the entire Daily Digest in > their > > reply. > > > I've > > > > never seen > > > > > that happen in this group. I wish Yahoo would make > it so > > it > > > > automatically > > > > > comes up with a "No-Reply" email address when > replying to > > > Daily > > > > Digests. > > > > > Maybe if the folks have to edit the email address, > they'd > > > take a > > > > few seconds > > > > > to highlight and delete all of the Daily Digest > (except > > for > > > the > > > > thread they > > > > > are replying to) and also edit the Subject line so > it > > doesn't > > > > show in reply > > > > > to Daily Digest 10,025. LOL At least Yahoo finally > made > > the > > > > upgrades to the > > > > > Daily Digests a couple of years ago where they do > group > > the > > > > replies > > > > > together. At one time, the Daily Digests just had > the > > > messages in > > > > > chronological order so you had to scroll through > the D.D. > > > looking > > > > for other > > > > > replies. Now, they are mostly all grouped together > in > > > > chronological order.. > > > > > which makes things a little easier to scroll > through any > > > longer > > > > threads. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:01 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday night Check in: > > > > > > > > > > - 30G tank now contains 20Tbsp salt as of 11 PM > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm > > > > > - Fish acting healthier, but CB and Raven still > have the > > > whitish > > > > areas > > > > > > > > > > Question: Raven is one of those goldfish with the > bubble > > > eyes. > > > > This may be a > > > > > stupid question, but the raised salt concentration > won't > > mess > > > > with that, > > > > > will it? I'd rather give you a good chuckle and be > > reassured > > > than > > > > find her > > > > > blinded after one of those bubbles bursts. > > > > > > > > > > Off Topic: The Ratlist frequently generates over > 100 > > messages > > > in > > > > a day, > > > > > hence the requirement to trim replies. Members who > get > > the > > > digest > > > > version go > > > > > crazy sorting through repeats of repeats trying to > find > > the > > > new > > > > messages. > > > > > Personally I'd just go no mail and read online > before > > getting > > > the > > > > digest > > > > > version. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:53 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Today's Check in: > > > > > > > > > > I didn't give the Malachite Green Yesterday > (Sunday), not > > > because > > > > the fish > > > > > weren't improving, but because I actually saw more > of the > > > white > > > > and the > > > > > weakest goldfish was sitting on the bottom of the > tank > > > looking > > > > exhausted > > > > > Saturday night, a few hours after the last > treatment. I > > was > > > using > > > > Rid-Ich+. > > > > > It's a daily treatment preceded by a PWC. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't come home with any antibiotic Sunday. I > got > > looking > > > at > > > > all those > > > > > bottles on the shelf and my brain exploded and then > I > > decided > > > to > > > > try going > > > > > more natural first. I didn't even consider asking > an > > > attendant > > > > for help. I > > > > > was in PetSmart and I know the stupid advice they > give > > > customers > > > > for rodent > > > > > care. (BTW, if any of you have your rodents on > cedar or > > pine > > > > shavings, that > > > > > guarantees that you will be back to the store for a > new > > pet > > > much > > > > sooner, > > > > > because the fumes will damage your pets' lungs. So > does > > > keeping > > > > them in > > > > > aquariums due to the ammonia build up.) > > > > > > > > > > I did a PWC Sunday and another tonight (Monday). > It's all > > I > > > had > > > > time for. > > > > > > > > > > The charcoal filter has been back in since Sunday > > afternoon > > > and > > > > the only > > > > > color I see from the MG is some staining in the > aquarium > > > sealant. > > > > > > > > > > I had already added another 2T of salt last night > > (Sunday) > > > before > > > > going to > > > > > bed, so I didn't see your message until after that. > I > > added > > > > another 2T > > > > > tonight (Monday) after the last PWC (I had added > salt to > > the > > > > replacement > > > > > water to match what was already in the tank), so > there is > > a > > > total > > > > of 6T in > > > > > the tank right now. I'll get that up to 10T in the > > morning > > > and > > > > 20T tomorrow > > > > > night. > > > > > > > > > > The weaker goldfish (henceforth referred to as CB - > short > > for > > > > Carol Burnett) > > > > > is now frolicking around the tank and schooling > with the > > > other > > > > two (Lucille > > > > > and Raven - They have to survive, now. They have > names.). > > Her > > > (?) > > > > dorsal fin > > > > > is up and she's got a very healthy appetite. > Nitrite is > > > > at .25ppm. I'll test > > > > > for everything tomorrow. > > > > > > > > > > I'm leaving all previous messages as instructed, > even > > though > > > it > > > > makes me > > > > > cringe. I get chewed out for doing this on the > Ratlist. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 4:17 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OK. This is a long reply. Read it twice before > proceeding > > > with > > > > adding > > > > > anything else to your tank. > > > > > > > > > > It's good that you are getting a slight ammonia > reading > > and a > > > > higher nitrite > > > > > reading. This means your tank is cycling but not > > complete. If > > > > either the > > > > > ammonia or nitrite levels get to 1.0ppm (which your > > current > > > > nitrite level is > > > > > at), do a 25% PWC to lower them. The salt in the > water > > will > > > > protect the fish > > > > > from nitrite poisoning but it's still not good to > have > > but > > > you > > > > need some to > > > > > continue feeding the bacteria to finish cycling the > tank. > > Did > > > you > > > > ever add > > > > > any cycled filter media from your cycled tank? This > would > > go > > > a > > > > long way... > > > > > but in further reading this post, you did not > actually > > have > > > an up > > > > and > > > > > running healthy tank so disregard this question. In > the > > > future, > > > > it would > > > > > have been best to completely clean that tank once > the old > > > fish > > > > were gone or > > > > > at least do regular PWC's on it to keep the water > from > > > getting > > > > stagnant. > > > > > There's nothing you can do about this now and > hopefully > > there > > > > weren't any > > > > > nasties still living in your old water that would > make > > things > > > > worse. You've > > > > > done enough PWC's by now to mostly remove all that > old > > water > > > > anyhow. > > > > > > > > > > What are the dosing instructions for your current > meds > > (the > > > > malachite > > > > > green)? If I knew what brand, I'd look them up but > you > > never > > > > mentioned it. > > > > > It's best to give a medicine it's proper time frame > to > > work. > > > Four > > > > days isn't > > > > > usually enough time for a medical treatment to have > a > > major > > > > effect. > > > > > From the below instructions that I found on one > brand, it > > > says to > > > > dose the > > > > > tank every three days for three treatments which > would be > > a > > > nine > > > > day > > > > > treatment.... BUT.. I'm not sure if yours is > stronger or > > > weaker > > > > or what. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from one page that gives various > treatment > > > > options... > > > > > http://www.fishdoc. <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm > > > > > <http://www.fishdoc. <http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm> > > > > > Malachite > > > > green: > > > > > Used against Saprolegnia (fungus), water moulds and > > protozoan > > > > parasites. > > > > > > > > > > A zinc-free grade must be used. This is usually > mixed as > > a > > > stock > > > > solution > > > > > that will then keep indefinitely. The exact mixture > of > > the > > > stock > > > > solution > > > > > varies depending on preference. The main point <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34423	From: bill1433	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: New Tank Maintenance

� I haven�t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, senior members, please forgive the repost. � For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have a new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all doing just fine but no live plants.� Our Water Parameters are in place and the fish are well acclimated �to the water conditions �and all is well.� We will also say, at this point in time nothing at all has been done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up.� There are no ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled. � Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank maintenance?� PWC�s, at least a rising of the filter media, in stages of course.� When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually begin? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34424	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: On getting this 72 gal. tank....

Well, we are going over to "sael the deal" on the tank today. He has two fish in it that he is giving a friend. Now, when we move the tank, am I better off to take the gravel in buckets so I don't have to cycle (I guess that is the correct term) the tank or what? Or should I just clean everything and start "new"? I welcome ALL advice on this issue... Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34425	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Posted pics' of tank.....

i posted (2) pics' of the tank that the guy sent me. In photo's under "Jim's Tank". Once they get approved by the mod.. Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34426	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance

Great question Bill, I will lurk and learn! :o) On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 10:08 AM, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, > senior members, please forgive the repost. > > For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have > a new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all doing > just fine but no live plants. Our Water Parameters are in place and the > fish are well acclimated to the water conditions and all is well. We will > also say, at this point in time nothing at all has been done to the filter > (HOB), since the tanks start up. There are no ammonia readings and the tank > is fully cycled. > > Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank maintenance? > PWC¢s, at least a rising of the filter media, in stages of course. When > does a tanks maintenance cycle actually begin? > > Bill > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34427	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance

One week after fish are added, unless your testing reveals a problem, then sooner. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:09 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > > > I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, > senior members, please forgive the repost. > > For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have > a new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all doing > just fine but no live plants.  Our Water Parameters are in place and the fish are well > acclimated  to the water conditions  and all is well.  We will also say, at this point in time > nothing at all has been done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up.  There are no > ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled. > > Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank maintenance?  PWC¢s, at least a > rising of the filter media, in stages of course.  When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually > begin? > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34428	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance

IMO it would be Week One, PWC, vacuum gravel, rinse filter media in tank water. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance   I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, senior members, please forgive the repost.   For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have a new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all doing just fine but no live plants.  Our Water Parameters are in place and the fish are well acclimated  to the water conditions  and all is well.  We will also say, at this point in time nothing at all has been done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up.  There are no ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled.   Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank maintenance?  PWC¢s, at least a rising of the filter media, in stages of course.  When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually begin?   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34429	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: On getting this 72 gal. tank....

How far is the move? Take the gravel and filters (or at least the used media) in his tank water. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] On getting this 72 gal. tank.... Well, we are going over to "sael the deal" on the tank today. He has two fish in it that he is giving a friend. Now, when we move the tank, am I better off to take the gravel in buckets so I don't have to cycle (I guess that is the correct term) the tank or what? Or should I just clean everything and start "new"? I welcome ALL advice on this issue... Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34430	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance (and now Lenny's invention)

With fish in the tank, filter maintenance should be done often enough to remove the fish waste before it has a chance to dissolve and go into solution with the water. The more often you do filter maintenance, the better the water quality will be. The filter system should have cleaning/maintenance done to it weekly or no later than every other week in a lightly stocked tank. (The below is copyrighted for my potential invention that I just dreamed up... and still on my first cup of coffee... of course, I drink 32 oz. cups of coffee at a time. lol) If there was a filter system that would take any filtered solids and remove them from the water flow, that would be best but I do not know of any such system for the home aquarist. Imagine a filter system like those automated cat litter boxes that screen through the cat litter each time a cat uses the litter box, picks up the clumped cat litter or poop and dumps the waste into a separate box, rather than leaving it in the open cat litter box. Maybe someone needs to do the grunt work of this invention for our fish.. of course, since using my idea, I would get royalties... I'm thinking 90% for me, 10% for you since it's my idea. ;-) Maybe a series of four filter cartridges (or seven or more in larger filters) where the water flows through all four cartridges but the first cartridge catches the bulk of the solid waste. Then every other day (in the Deluxe/Executive models), or daily in larger systems, that cartridge pops up or folds up out of the water flow and is dropped into a separate water filled container, waiting to be cleaned. Then two days later, the next cartridge pops up, etc. This would remove the fish waste solids from the water flow, keeping the DOC's (dissolved organic compounds...aka diarrhea) out of the water column. Then, after the three or more dirty cartridges are cleaned, they would go back into the main filter systems water flow. This would most closely duplicate what we do with our own human waste when we flush our toilets. Since all four (or seven or more) floss polypad cartridges were in the water flow, each of the filters would have a certain amount of nitrifying bacteria on them so there would also have to be a decent amount of specialized biofiltration like a bio-wheel, bio-balls, biomax or other ceramic type media with loads of surface area in the filtered water flow before it returns to the tank. This way, each time one of the dirty cartridges are removed, there would be no impact on the nitrogen cycle. Also, since the removed dirty cartridge(s) would also be removing a lot of the fish waste (until the cartridge is cleaned), there would be even less of a potential effect on the nitrogen cycle since we would also be removing a lot of the waste that would normally contribute to ammonia levels as it decays. This would be like doing daily filter maintenance without actually having to do daily filter maintenance. It would create optimal conditions for our fish instead of them having to swim around in and breathe their own waste for days and weeks on end, until us fish keepers decide to do filter maintenance. If you want to do bi-weekly filter maintenance, then you would buy a larger system with more cartridges. If you don't mind doing weekly filter maintenance, you could get by with a smaller filter system. This could either be an under tank-stand system or an HOB that would be kind of long and hang across the back of the tank. Something I'm thinking is a long reservoir where the intake tube comes up into the middle of the reservoir, the water flow is parallel to the back of the tank through the filter cartridges and then each dirty cartridge slides down past the intake, into the dirty filter holding reservoir. The Deluxe or Executive model would be automated (and more expensive) but the basic model would require the fish keeper to lift the dirty filter cartridge out of the water flow and drop it into the holding reservoir. So.. all that would be required is when you turn on the lights or feed the fish, lift the first cartridge in the water flow... the dirtiest filter... and drop it into the holding reservoir. When you get to the last filter, it's time to do filter maintenance on the filters in the reservoir. The basic model would also allow for each fish keeper to determine their own schedule based on the bioload of their tank. Heavy bioloads... daily removal of dirtiest filter. Lighter bioloads... every other day removal of dirtiest filters. With seven filter cartridges, this would mean either weekly or bi-weekly filter cleaning but the water quality would stay much better between tank maintenance since the solid wastes would be removed daily or every other day. There would also be cartridge slots for optional biofiltration cartridge (biomax, etc.), chemical filtration cartridge (optional carbon or Purigen, etc.) and also an optional Bio-Wheel discharge for folks that like Bio-Wheel technology. I might have to go buy a large sheet of plexiglass, acrylic epoxy and some aquarium silicone and start working on a working model. I'll probably just use one of my existing HOB's, cut it down the middle between the intake and discharge, extend the length of the reservoir for both the holding section for dirty filters on the furthest end from the outflow and for more filter reservoir room between the intake and discharge for holding the series of cartridges. Dang.. it's $82.00 just to start the filing process for a patent. Any venture capital investors out there??? Maybe I need to get in touch with Dr. Tim Hovanec! ;-) For now, this new system is called "GoldLenny's Ultimate Aquarium Filter".. or maybe "The Fish Toilet!".... or if Dr. Tim provides funding, "The One And Only Aquarium Filter". Dr. Tim, are you reading this??? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:09 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance   I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, senior members, please forgive the repost.   For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have a new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all doing just fine but no live plants.  Our Water Parameters are in place and the fish are well acclimated  to the water conditions  and all is well.  We will also say, at this point in time nothing at all has been done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up.  There are no ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled.   Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank maintenance?  PWC¢s, at least a rising of the filter media, in stages of course.  When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually begin?   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34431	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: On getting this 72 gal. tank....

If the existing tank is healthy looking, then you could use it as is. If it is funky and has sick fish, then you would want to start from scratch and sterilize everything. It's up to you. The filter system will contain the majority of the good nitrifying bacteria.. the ones that actually "cycle" a tank. The gravel also houses some but would house more if the tank had a UGF filter system. I saw in the photos that it's a Marineland canister filter with a dual Bio-Wheel return. Keep the filter running as long as possible. Unplug it last. Hook it up on the 5G bucket as soon as you get it home (hopefully not more than an hour or so) and then start running it again as soon as you get home. This will keep the majority of the nitrifying bacteria alive while you re-set up the tank. If you will be using the old gravel, just rinse it off in removed tank water, put it in a 5G bucket, with enough water to keep it wet so you don't have to smell it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] On getting this 72 gal. tank.... Well, we are going over to "sael the deal" on the tank today. He has two fish in it that he is giving a friend. Now, when we move the tank, am I better off to take the gravel in buckets so I don't have to cycle (I guess that is the correct term) the tank or what? Or should I just clean everything and start "new"? I welcome ALL advice on this issue... Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34432	From: bill1433	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance

Accurate and concise as always BUT........................................ When or with what?  Pwc's first?  When do you actually start with a bit of filter maintenance, rising media and such?   It's OK, Steve.........................I'm already on my 3rd coffee!   Bill --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:46 AM One week after fish are added, unless your testing reveals a problem, then sooner. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:09 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > > > I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, > senior members, please forgive the repost. > > For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have > a new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all doing > just fine but no live plants.  Our Water Parameters are in place and the fish are well > acclimated  to the water conditions  and all is well.  We will also say, at this point in time > nothing at all has been done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up.  There are no > ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled. > > Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank maintenance?  PWC¢s, at least a > rising of the filter media, in stages of course.  When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually > begin? > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance

Yep! (Also see my longer reply with my new Filter System invention/design.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance One week after fish are added, unless your testing reveals a problem, then sooner. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:09 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > > > I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, > senior members, please forgive the repost. > > For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have a > new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all > doing just fine but no live plants. Our Water Parameters are in place > and the fish are well acclimated to the water conditions and all is > well. We will also say, at this point in time nothing at all has been > done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up. There are no ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled. > > Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank > maintenance? PWC¢s, at least a rising of the filter media, in stages > of course. When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually begin? > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance

With my HOB's, I just unplug it, lean it forward to drain some of the water from the reservoir into the tank, lift the intake tube and place it in the reservoir, then remove the entire HOB and bring it to my kitchen sink for cleaning. I also remove a 1/2 gallon or so of tank water in a separate bucket and bring it to the sink. With my canister, I do the filter maintenance first since whenever I re-plug in the canister and the water starts flowing good again, it usually results in some algae that was growing inside the return line being dislodged and flowing back into the tank. This quickly settles to the bottom or is sucked back into the filter to be removed from the water column. After it has settled down a little, I do my gravel vacuuming/PWC. My fish... especially my goldfish and pleco.. go crazy eating up this dislodged algae. Whatever settles down into the gravel is removed with the gravel vacuum/PWC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance Accurate and concise as always BUT........................................ When or with what? Pwc's first? When do you actually start with a bit of filter maintenance, rising media and such? It's OK, Steve.........................I'm already on my 3rd coffee! Bill --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:46 AM One week after fish are added, unless your testing reveals a problem, then sooner. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:09 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > > > I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, > senior members, please forgive the repost. > > For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have a > new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all > doing just fine but no live plants. Our Water Parameters are in place > and the fish are well acclimated to the water conditions and all is > well. We will also say, at this point in time nothing at all has been > done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up. There are no ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled. > > Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank > maintenance? PWC¢s, at least a rising of the filter media, in stages > of course. When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually begin? > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34435	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyis

Earlier this year, I switched from the paper TFH magazine to the digital subscription... which was only $1.00 a year... but after getting tired of reading the magazine online, which isn't as conducive to my reading throne.. lol.., I decided to switch back to the paper magazine. As part of signing up for a two year subscription, I got a free 2009 Fish Calendar and also got to choose from a couple of books. I chose "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" (Plus 33 Species To Avoid) by Kathleen Wood. http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939 At first glance, it's a pocket sized 4" x 8" plastic coated soft cover book with 191 pages. It's well illustrated with profiles on each of the fish. As I started looking at the introduction and first chapters where they talk about tank sizes, etc., I started getting that queasy feeling. They have a section called "Model Community Tanks". I'm only going to list two out of the five examples for 10G tanks to see what you all think. They do have the scientific names next to the common names but I did not include them for most of the below since they are easily identified by their common names. -------- 10-Gallon Peaceful Global Community Top Swimmers 2 Dwarf Gouramis (male-female pair) Midwater Swimmers 5-7 Glowlight Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Albino Aeneus Corydoras 2 Otocinclus vittatus -------- 10-Gallon Amazon Quiet Pool Top Swimmers 3 Marbled Hatchetfish Midwater Swimmers 12 Neon Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Panda Corydoras 1 Clown Pleco -------- In the above example, a Clown Pleco reaches 4" to 5" and is very wide bodied, so it's not like a 4" torpedo shaped fish... and it is an eating-pooping machine like most plecos. Just the Clown Pleco would be a big bioload for a 10G tank, IMO... but maybe a small school of Neons would be OK with it. Normally, a 4" to 5" fish should not be kept in a 10G tank but at least a Clown Pleco isn't a big swimmer so the limited tank size won't affect it as much. I just wouldn't do it as a planned stocking. They also had a livebearer tank with 6 fancy guppies (2 males - 4 females), 3 swordtails (1 male - 2 females) and 3 Bronze Corydoras. Now, personally, I would consider these examples as VERY overstocked... especially considering what would happen within a month (or even days) in the livebearer tank... but what do some of you other experts out there think??? Should this book be considered just another crappy book that leads so many newbie's into tragedy... like so many other books that I've seen or am I just being too cautious about overstocking? The article on my blog for "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" doesn't come close to these levels of stocking for a 10G tank... but then the fish will be much happier and the hobbyist won't be stuck with tons of tank maintenance, fish health issues, etc., by following my guidelines versus what is found in many books. Compared to Aquarium Fish Magazine, which has some really BAD info in it at times, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine is a MUCH BETTER magazine but I'm not too happy about them promoting the above book. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34436	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob

What is name of the Magazine you prefer and where can I sign up for it ? (as mentioned in your response) --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 12:06 PM Earlier this year, I switched from the paper TFH magazine to the digital subscription. .. which was only $1.00 a year... but after getting tired of reading the magazine online, which isn't as conducive to my reading throne.. lol.., I decided to switch back to the paper magazine. As part of signing up for a two year subscription, I got a free 2009 Fish Calendar and also got to choose from a couple of books. I chose "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" (Plus 33 Species To Avoid) by Kathleen Wood. http://www.amazon. com/101-Best- Tropical- Fishes-Fascinati ng/dp/1890087939 At first glance, it's a pocket sized 4" x 8" plastic coated soft cover book with 191 pages. It's well illustrated with profiles on each of the fish. As I started looking at the introduction and first chapters where they talk about tank sizes, etc., I started getting that queasy feeling. They have a section called "Model Community Tanks". I'm only going to list two out of the five examples for 10G tanks to see what you all think. They do have the scientific names next to the common names but I did not include them for most of the below since they are easily identified by their common names. -------- 10-Gallon Peaceful Global Community Top Swimmers 2 Dwarf Gouramis (male-female pair) Midwater Swimmers 5-7 Glowlight Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Albino Aeneus Corydoras 2 Otocinclus vittatus -------- 10-Gallon Amazon Quiet Pool Top Swimmers 3 Marbled Hatchetfish Midwater Swimmers 12 Neon Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Panda Corydoras 1 Clown Pleco -------- In the above example, a Clown Pleco reaches 4" to 5" and is very wide bodied, so it's not like a 4" torpedo shaped fish... and it is an eating-pooping machine like most plecos. Just the Clown Pleco would be a big bioload for a 10G tank, IMO... but maybe a small school of Neons would be OK with it. Normally, a 4" to 5" fish should not be kept in a 10G tank but at least a Clown Pleco isn't a big swimmer so the limited tank size won't affect it as much. I just wouldn't do it as a planned stocking. They also had a livebearer tank with 6 fancy guppies (2 males - 4 females), 3 swordtails (1 male - 2 females) and 3 Bronze Corydoras. Now, personally, I would consider these examples as VERY overstocked. .. especially considering what would happen within a month (or even days) in the livebearer tank... but what do some of you other experts out there think??? Should this book be considered just another crappy book that leads so many newbie's into tragedy... like so many other books that I've seen or am I just being too cautious about overstocking? The article on my blog for "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" doesn't come close to these levels of stocking for a 10G tank... but then the fish will be much happier and the hobbyist won't be stuck with tons of tank maintenance, fish health issues, etc., by following my guidelines versus what is found in many books. Compared to Aquarium Fish Magazine, which has some really BAD info in it at times, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine is a MUCH BETTER magazine but I'm not too happy about them promoting the above book. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob

See subject line ^^^^^ (Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine). ;-) On my "Free Offers" page on my blog, http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/FREE%20Offers, I have all the links. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine What is name of the Magazine you prefer and where can I sign up for it ? (as mentioned in your response) --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 12:06 PM Earlier this year, I switched from the paper TFH magazine to the digital subscription. .. which was only $1.00 a year... but after getting tired of reading the magazine online, which isn't as conducive to my reading throne.. lol.., I decided to switch back to the paper magazine. As part of signing up for a two year subscription, I got a free 2009 Fish Calendar and also got to choose from a couple of books. I chose "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" (Plus 33 Species To Avoid) by Kathleen Wood. http://www.amazon. com/101-Best- Tropical- Fishes-Fascinati ng/dp/1890087939 At first glance, it's a pocket sized 4" x 8" plastic coated soft cover book with 191 pages. It's well illustrated with profiles on each of the fish. As I started looking at the introduction and first chapters where they talk about tank sizes, etc., I started getting that queasy feeling. They have a section called "Model Community Tanks". I'm only going to list two out of the five examples for 10G tanks to see what you all think. They do have the scientific names next to the common names but I did not include them for most of the below since they are easily identified by their common names. -------- 10-Gallon Peaceful Global Community Top Swimmers 2 Dwarf Gouramis (male-female pair) Midwater Swimmers 5-7 Glowlight Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Albino Aeneus Corydoras 2 Otocinclus vittatus -------- 10-Gallon Amazon Quiet Pool Top Swimmers 3 Marbled Hatchetfish Midwater Swimmers 12 Neon Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Panda Corydoras 1 Clown Pleco -------- In the above example, a Clown Pleco reaches 4" to 5" and is very wide bodied, so it's not like a 4" torpedo shaped fish... and it is an eating-pooping machine like most plecos. Just the Clown Pleco would be a big bioload for a 10G tank, IMO... but maybe a small school of Neons would be OK with it. Normally, a 4" to 5" fish should not be kept in a 10G tank but at least a Clown Pleco isn't a big swimmer so the limited tank size won't affect it as much. I just wouldn't do it as a planned stocking. They also had a livebearer tank with 6 fancy guppies (2 males - 4 females), 3 swordtails (1 male - 2 females) and 3 Bronze Corydoras. Now, personally, I would consider these examples as VERY overstocked. .. especially considering what would happen within a month (or even days) in the livebearer tank... but what do some of you other experts out there think??? Should this book be considered just another crappy book that leads so many newbie's into tragedy... like so many other books that I've seen or am I just being too cautious about overstocking? The article on my blog for "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" doesn't come close to these levels of stocking for a 10G tank... but then the fish will be much happier and the hobbyist won't be stuck with tons of tank maintenance, fish health issues, etc., by following my guidelines versus what is found in many books. Compared to Aquarium Fish Magazine, which has some really BAD info in it at times, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine is a MUCH BETTER magazine but I'm not too happy about them promoting the above book. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34438	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance

Lenny it sounds as if you are recommending doing canister maintenance an a PWC with gravel vacuuming on the same day. I have always done them 3 or 4 days apart to prevent removing a lot of good bacteria in one day. But then I rinse everyhing but biomax and bio wheels in tap water sinse I have well water (no chlorine/chloramine). Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Dec 14, 2008, at 11:04 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: With my HOB's, I just unplug it, lean it forward to drain some of the water from the reservoir into the tank, lift the intake tube and place it in the reservoir, then remove the entire HOB and bring it to my kitchen sink for cleaning. I also remove a 1/2 gallon or so of tank water in a separate bucket and bring it to the sink. With my canister, I do the filter maintenance first since whenever I re-plug in the canister and the water starts flowing good again, it usually results in some algae that was growing inside the return line being dislodged and flowing back into the tank. This quickly settles to the bottom or is sucked back into the filter to be removed from the water column. After it has settled down a little, I do my gravel vacuuming/PWC. My fish... especially my goldfish and pleco.. go crazy eating up this dislodged algae. Whatever settles down into the gravel is removed with the gravel vacuum/PWC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance Accurate and concise as always BUT......................................... When or with what? Pwc's first? When do you actually start with a bit of filter maintenance, rising media and such? It's OK, Steve..........................I'm already on my 3rd coffee! Bill --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:46 AM One week after fish are added, unless your testing reveals a problem, then sooner. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:09 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > > > I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, > senior members, please forgive the repost. > > For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have a > new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all > doing just fine but no live plants. Our Water Parameters are in place > and the fish are well acclimated to the water conditions and all is > well. We will also say, at this point in time nothing at all has been > done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up. There are no ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled. > > Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank > maintenance? PWC¢s, at least a rising of the filter media, in stages > of course. When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually begin? > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] d{ padding: 8px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: #628c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: 0; } .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; } blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} --> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34439	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: On getting this 72 gal. tank....

He lives about 10 minutes from our house, I will be checking out the condition of the water etc. this afternoon. If all goes well I do what you suggested with the gravel and filter, sounds easy enough. I don't expect to move the tank till sometime next week which will give me time to plan for it.... I didn't realize there is a dual bio-wheel on tank, good eyes Lenny... Thanks for the help/advice, I'll post how things go.... Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If the existing tank is healthy looking, then you could use it as is. If it > is funky and has sick fish, then you would want to start from scratch and > sterilize everything. It's up to you. > > The filter system will contain the majority of the good nitrifying > bacteria.. the ones that actually "cycle" a tank. The gravel also houses > some but would house more if the tank had a UGF filter system. I saw in the > photos that it's a Marineland canister filter with a dual Bio-Wheel return. > Keep the filter running as long as possible. Unplug it last. Hook it up on > the 5G bucket as soon as you get it home (hopefully not more than an hour or > so) and then start running it again as soon as you get home. This will keep > the majority of the nitrifying bacteria alive while you re-set up the tank. > > > If you will be using the old gravel, just rinse it off in removed tank > water, put it in a 5G bucket, with enough water to keep it wet so you don't > have to smell it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] On getting this 72 gal. tank.... > > > Well, we are going over to "sael the deal" on the tank today. He has two > fish in it that he is giving a friend. Now, when we move the tank, am I > better off to take the gravel in buckets so I don't have to cycle (I guess > that is the correct term) the tank or what? Or should I just clean > everything and start "new"? > > I welcome ALL advice on this issue... > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance

When vacuuming the gravel, you will NOT be removing any of the beneficial bacteria living on the gravel... just the decaying detritus trapped in all of the cracks/crevices between the pieces of gravel. If the water flowing through the filter media at hundreds of gallons per hour doesn't remove them from the filter media, then the gravel siphon surely isn't going to rip them from the gravel surfaces. I don't think even the Python sucks up water that fast... but I can picture the little bacteria desperately hanging onto the side of the gravel saying "Damn you Python... leave our home alone!!!". ;-) There's certainly nothing wrong with doing it your way, I just like to get it all over with at the same time. While I do not endorse it, some people argue that it's even OK to rinse filter media under tap water with chlorine/chloramine as long as it's not in the tap water for more than a minute or two. After all, tap water doesn't instantly kill bacteria... otherwise we wouldn't need antibacterial soaps, bleach, etc. If the chlorine/chloramine treated water was strong enough, just running our hands under the water would disinfect them... but I still prefer restaurant workers and doctors to use a little better disinfectant. ;-) I remember reading in some official page, like the EPA or other water quality site, that chloramine treated tap water would have to soak bacteria for over 5 minutes before it would kill off even some of the low level bacteria. Other bacteria would need much more exposure. Fortunately, the water is in the pipes for hours or days before it ever reaches our faucets so it should have killed off everything prior to our consuming it. It's best to only rinse, squeeze, swoosh, etc., filter media in removed tank water but if your tap water is very similar in parameters to your tank, then it's OK to use the tap water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:42 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance Lenny it sounds as if you are recommending doing canister maintenance an a PWC with gravel vacuuming on the same day. I have always done them 3 or 4 days apart to prevent removing a lot of good bacteria in one day. But then I rinse everyhing but biomax and bio wheels in tap water sinse I have well water (no chlorine/chloramine). Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Dec 14, 2008, at 11:04 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: With my HOB's, I just unplug it, lean it forward to drain some of the water from the reservoir into the tank, lift the intake tube and place it in the reservoir, then remove the entire HOB and bring it to my kitchen sink for cleaning. I also remove a 1/2 gallon or so of tank water in a separate bucket and bring it to the sink. With my canister, I do the filter maintenance first since whenever I re-plug in the canister and the water starts flowing good again, it usually results in some algae that was growing inside the return line being dislodged and flowing back into the tank. This quickly settles to the bottom or is sucked back into the filter to be removed from the water column. After it has settled down a little, I do my gravel vacuuming/PWC. My fish... especially my goldfish and pleco.. go crazy eating up this dislodged algae. Whatever settles down into the gravel is removed with the gravel vacuum/PWC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance Accurate and concise as always BUT......................................... When or with what? Pwc's first? When do you actually start with a bit of filter maintenance, rising media and such? It's OK, Steve..........................I'm already on my 3rd coffee! Bill --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:46 AM One week after fish are added, unless your testing reveals a problem, then sooner. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:09 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > > > I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, > senior members, please forgive the repost. > > For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have a > new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all > doing just fine but no live plants. Our Water Parameters are in place > and the fish are well acclimated to the water conditions and all is > well. We will also say, at this point in time nothing at all has been > done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up. There are no > ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled. > > Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank > maintenance? PWC¢s, at least a rising of the filter media, in stages > of course. When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually begin? > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34441	From: bill1433	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance----for Lenny?

"It's best to only rinse, squeeze, swoosh, etc., filter media in removed tank water but if your tap water is very similar in parameters to your tank, then it's OK to use the tap water."   Len, does not the temperature of the rising water have a bearing here? i.e. too hot, and you will kill bacteria, no?   Bill --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 1:43 PM When vacuuming the gravel, you will NOT be removing any of the beneficial bacteria living on the gravel... just the decaying detritus trapped in all of the cracks/crevices between the pieces of gravel. If the water flowing through the filter media at hundreds of gallons per hour doesn't remove them from the filter media, then the gravel siphon surely isn't going to rip them from the gravel surfaces. I don't think even the Python sucks up water that fast... but I can picture the little bacteria desperately hanging onto the side of the gravel saying "Damn you Python... leave our home alone!!!". ;-) There's certainly nothing wrong with doing it your way, I just like to get it all over with at the same time. While I do not endorse it, some people argue that it's even OK to rinse filter media under tap water with chlorine/chloramine as long as it's not in the tap water for more than a minute or two. After all, tap water doesn't instantly kill bacteria... otherwise we wouldn't need antibacterial soaps, bleach, etc. If the chlorine/chloramine treated water was strong enough, just running our hands under the water would disinfect them... but I still prefer restaurant workers and doctors to use a little better disinfectant. ;-) I remember reading in some official page, like the EPA or other water quality site, that chloramine treated tap water would have to soak bacteria for over 5 minutes before it would kill off even some of the low level bacteria. Other bacteria would need much more exposure. Fortunately, the water is in the pipes for hours or days before it ever reaches our faucets so it should have killed off everything prior to our consuming it. It's best to only rinse, squeeze, swoosh, etc., filter media in removed tank water but if your tap water is very similar in parameters to your tank, then it's OK to use the tap water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:42 AM To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance Lenny it sounds as if you are recommending doing canister maintenance an a PWC with gravel vacuuming on the same day. I have always done them 3 or 4 days apart to prevent removing a lot of good bacteria in one day. But then I rinse everyhing but biomax and bio wheels in tap water sinse I have well water (no chlorine/chloramine ). Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Dec 14, 2008, at 11:04 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: With my HOB's, I just unplug it, lean it forward to drain some of the water from the reservoir into the tank, lift the intake tube and place it in the reservoir, then remove the entire HOB and bring it to my kitchen sink for cleaning. I also remove a 1/2 gallon or so of tank water in a separate bucket and bring it to the sink. With my canister, I do the filter maintenance first since whenever I re-plug in the canister and the water starts flowing good again, it usually results in some algae that was growing inside the return line being dislodged and flowing back into the tank. This quickly settles to the bottom or is sucked back into the filter to be removed from the water column. After it has settled down a little, I do my gravel vacuuming/PWC. My fish... especially my goldfish and pleco.. go crazy eating up this dislodged algae. Whatever settles down into the gravel is removed with the gravel vacuum/PWC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance Accurate and concise as always BUT......... ......... ......... ......... ...... When or with what? Pwc's first? When do you actually start with a bit of filter maintenance, rising media and such? It's OK, Steve....... ......... ......... .I'm already on my 3rd coffee! Bill --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:46 AM One week after fish are added, unless your testing reveals a problem, then sooner. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:09 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > > > I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, > senior members, please forgive the repost. > > For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have a > new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all > doing just fine but no live plants. Our Water Parameters are in place > and the fish are well acclimated to the water conditions and all is > well. We will also say, at this point in time nothing at all has been > done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up. There are no > ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled. > > Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank > maintenance? PWC¢s, at least a rising of the filter media, in stages > of course. When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually begin? > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34442	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance----for Lenny?

Temperature is one of the many water parameters (things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature, salinity, GH, KH, etc.). Too cold or too hot would cause shock issues for the bacteria and could kill some/all of them off. A much different pH, GH or KH level could also cause osmotic issues to the bacteria. This is why it's best to use removed tank water that the bacteria have been living/thriving in. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance----for Lenny? "It's best to only rinse, squeeze, swoosh, etc., filter media in removed tank water but if your tap water is very similar in parameters to your tank, then it's OK to use the tap water." Len, does not the temperature of the rising water have a bearing here? i.e. too hot, and you will kill bacteria, no? Bill --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 1:43 PM When vacuuming the gravel, you will NOT be removing any of the beneficial bacteria living on the gravel... just the decaying detritus trapped in all of the cracks/crevices between the pieces of gravel. If the water flowing through the filter media at hundreds of gallons per hour doesn't remove them from the filter media, then the gravel siphon surely isn't going to rip them from the gravel surfaces. I don't think even the Python sucks up water that fast... but I can picture the little bacteria desperately hanging onto the side of the gravel saying "Damn you Python... leave our home alone!!!". ;-) There's certainly nothing wrong with doing it your way, I just like to get it all over with at the same time. While I do not endorse it, some people argue that it's even OK to rinse filter media under tap water with chlorine/chloramine as long as it's not in the tap water for more than a minute or two. After all, tap water doesn't instantly kill bacteria... otherwise we wouldn't need antibacterial soaps, bleach, etc. If the chlorine/chloramine treated water was strong enough, just running our hands under the water would disinfect them... but I still prefer restaurant workers and doctors to use a little better disinfectant. ;-) I remember reading in some official page, like the EPA or other water quality site, that chloramine treated tap water would have to soak bacteria for over 5 minutes before it would kill off even some of the low level bacteria. Other bacteria would need much more exposure. Fortunately, the water is in the pipes for hours or days before it ever reaches our faucets so it should have killed off everything prior to our consuming it. It's best to only rinse, squeeze, swoosh, etc., filter media in removed tank water but if your tap water is very similar in parameters to your tank, then it's OK to use the tap water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:42 AM To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance Lenny it sounds as if you are recommending doing canister maintenance an a PWC with gravel vacuuming on the same day. I have always done them 3 or 4 days apart to prevent removing a lot of good bacteria in one day. But then I rinse everyhing but biomax and bio wheels in tap water sinse I have well water (no chlorine/chloramine ). Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Dec 14, 2008, at 11:04 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: With my HOB's, I just unplug it, lean it forward to drain some of the water from the reservoir into the tank, lift the intake tube and place it in the reservoir, then remove the entire HOB and bring it to my kitchen sink for cleaning. I also remove a 1/2 gallon or so of tank water in a separate bucket and bring it to the sink. With my canister, I do the filter maintenance first since whenever I re-plug in the canister and the water starts flowing good again, it usually results in some algae that was growing inside the return line being dislodged and flowing back into the tank. This quickly settles to the bottom or is sucked back into the filter to be removed from the water column. After it has settled down a little, I do my gravel vacuuming/PWC. My fish... especially my goldfish and pleco.. go crazy eating up this dislodged algae. Whatever settles down into the gravel is removed with the gravel vacuum/PWC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance Accurate and concise as always BUT......... ......... ......... ......... ...... When or with what? Pwc's first? When do you actually start with a bit of filter maintenance, rising media and such? It's OK, Steve....... ......... ......... .I'm already on my 3rd coffee! Bill --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:46 AM One week after fish are added, unless your testing reveals a problem, then sooner. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:09 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > > > I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, > senior members, please forgive the repost. > > For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have a > new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all > doing just fine but no live plants. Our Water Parameters are in place > and the fish are well acclimated to the water conditions and all is > well. We will also say, at this point in time nothing at all has been > done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up. There are no > ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled. > > Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank > maintenance? PWC¢s, at least a rising of the filter media, in stages > of course. When does a tanks maintenance cycle actually begin? > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34443	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: New Tank Maintenance

I believe that water changes are more important, but, eyeballing the filter should tell you when it needs to be cleaned. HOT's I'd do weekly, canisters, less frequently, depending on the load. However, I have a tendency to under stock tanks. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > > Accurate and concise as always BUT........................................ > When or with what?  Pwc's first?  When do you actually start with a bit of filter > maintenance, rising media and such? > > It's OK, Steve.........................I'm already on my 3rd coffee! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:46 AM > > > > > > > One week after fish are added, unless your testing reveals a problem, then sooner. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf > Of > > bill1433 > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:09 AM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank Maintenance > > > > > > I haven¢t exactly seen this issue discussed before but if it has, > > senior members, please forgive the repost. > > > > For the sake of our discussion here we are going to say that we have > > a new tank that is cycled and has plenty of inhabitants that are all doing > > just fine but no live plants.  Our Water Parameters are in place and the fish are well > > acclimated  to the water conditions  and all is well.  We will also say, at this point in time > > nothing at all has been done to the filter (HOB), since the tanks start up.  There are no > > ammonia readings and the tank is fully cycled. > > > > Now at what point in time do you begin actually begin tank maintenance?  PWC¢s, at least a > > rising of the filter media, in stages of course.  When does a tanks maintenance cycle > actually > > begin? > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34444	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob

Hi Lenny, Consider writing to the Editor of TFH about the book. I am almost certain that it will not result in the book being pulled but at least you are letting them know they need to think a little harder about the books they offer in the future. Also consider writing some articles for TFH. I met the editor at the ACA convention and he is very receptive to new articles. I know several local fish keepers that have had articles published. This would be a whole new venue for you to get the word out on succesful fish keeping. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 9:06 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine Earlier this year, I switched from the paper TFH magazine to the digital subscription... which was only $1.00 a year... but after getting tired of reading the magazine online, which isn't as conducive to my reading throne.. lol.., I decided to switch back to the paper magazine. As part of signing up for a two year subscription, I got a free 2009 Fish Calendar and also got to choose from a couple of books. I chose "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" (Plus 33 Species To Avoid) by Kathleen Wood. http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939 At first glance, it's a pocket sized 4" x 8" plastic coated soft cover book with 191 pages. It's well illustrated with profiles on each of the fish.0AAs I started looking at the introduction and first chapters where they talk about tank sizes, etc., I started getting that queasy feeling. They have a section called "Model Community Tanks". I'm only going to list two out of the five examples for 10G tanks to see what you all think. They do have the scientific names next to the common names but I did not include them for most of the below since they are easily identified by their common names. -------- 10-Gallon Peaceful Global Community Top Swimmers 2 Dwarf Gouramis (male-female pair) Midwater Swimmers 5-7 Glowlight Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Albino Aeneus Corydoras 2 Otocinclus vittatus -------- 10-Gallon Amazon Quiet Pool Top Swimmers 3 Marbled Hatchetfish Midwater Swimmers 12 Neon Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Panda Corydoras 1 Clown Pleco -------- In the above example, a Clown Pleco reaches 4" to 5" and is very wide bodied, so it's not like a 4" torpedo shaped fish... and it is an eating-pooping machine like most plecos. Just the Clown Pleco would be a big bioload for a 10G tank, IMO... but maybe a small school of Neons would be OK with it. Normally, a 4" to 5" fish should not be kept in a 10G tank but at least a Clown Pleco isn't a big swimmer so the limited tank size won't affect it as much. I just wouldn't do it as a planned stocking. They also had a livebearer tank with 6 fancy guppies (2 males - 4 females), 3 swordtails (1 male - 2 females) and 3 Bronze Corydoras. Now, personally, I would consider these exampl es as VERY overstocked... especially considering what would happen within a month (or even days) in the livebearer tank... but what do some of you other experts out there think??? Should this book be considered just another crappy book that leads so many newbie's into tragedy... like so many other books that I've seen or am I just being too cautious about overstocking? The article on my blog for "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" doesn't come close to these levels of stocking for a 10G tank... but then the fish will be much happier and the hobbyist won't be stuck with tons of tank maintenance, fish health issues, etc., by following my guidelines versus what is found in many books. Compared to Aquarium Fish Magazine, which has some really BAD info in it at times, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine is a MUCH BETTER magazine but I'm not too happy about them promoting the above book. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34445	From: Lisa	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium

I have a question for you all. Not that the time will arrive for a long time yet. But still. Pays to know what to do. How does one go about safely moving a planted freshwater aquarium from one house to another? This is my 22gal I'm referring to. My LFS says they can fishsit my beautiful babies for a couple of days while I get myself sorted. But I believe if it is done properly, and care and all precautions are taken, then it could be done in a day. So far in my tank I have a small bunch of pennywart (I think could be baby tears) And what I think is a dwarf anubias attached to a piece of bogwood I would also like to get some java moss and java fern, and well as some amazon sword. I'm in the last week of my cycle now. And so not this Tuesday, but the next, I am going to get 2 male and 6 female swordtails. See how they all adjust to their new home then at a later point if all goes well, add a single dwarf gourami Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34446	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Just go back from checking out the 72 gal....

Well, the only thing that upset me was he emptied out the tank..... So, I have to start from "ground zero" on setting it up. Now, the gravel is in a bucket, do I just rinse it off and put it in the tank? I will be replacing all the tubing since the inside is covered with algae. A question on the way he had the Marineland 350 set up: he had one return going to the bio-wheel and another on the other side of the tank, good idea? The intake was in the center of the tank. The light was only for one tube, I thought it should have been two tubes? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34447	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34448	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

OK, thanks! I'll look into local groups. I'd be surprised not to find some in the Metro Detroit area. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:04 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? If you join some local fish groups, you can probably find fish fanatics like us that will sell you a used tank for $1 a gallon.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34449	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob

I looked at this book and didn't get it. It had some pretty glaring omissions, and at the time I was only interested in tetras, barbs and danios. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine Earlier this year, I switched from the paper TFH magazine to the digital subscription... which was only $1.00 a year... but after getting tired of reading the magazine online, which isn't as conducive to my reading throne.. lol.., I decided to switch back to the paper magazine. As part of signing up for a two year subscription, I got a free 2009 Fish Calendar and also got to choose from a couple of books. I chose "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" (Plus 33 Species To Avoid) by Kathleen Wood. http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939 At first glance, it's a pocket sized 4" x 8" plastic coated soft cover book with 191 pages. It's well illustrated with profiles on each of the fish. As I started looking at the introduction and first chapters where they talk about tank sizes, etc., I started getting that queasy feeling. They have a section called "Model Community Tanks". I'm only going to list two out of the five examples for 10G tanks to see what you all think. They do have the scientific names next to the common names but I did not include them for most of the below since they are easily identified by their common names. -------- 10-Gallon Peaceful Global Community Top Swimmers 2 Dwarf Gouramis (male-female pair) Midwater Swimmers 5-7 Glowlight Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Albino Aeneus Corydoras 2 Otocinclus vittatus -------- 10-Gallon Amazon Quiet Pool Top Swimmers 3 Marbled Hatchetfish Midwater Swimmers 12 Neon Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Panda Corydoras 1 Clown Pleco -------- In the above example, a Clown Pleco reaches 4" to 5" and is very wide bodied, so it's not like a 4" torpedo shaped fish... and it is an eating-pooping machine like most plecos. Just the Clown Pleco would be a big bioload for a 10G tank, IMO... but maybe a small school of Neons would be OK with it. Normally, a 4" to 5" fish should not be kept in a 10G tank but at least a Clown Pleco isn't a big swimmer so the limited tank size won't affect it as much. I just wouldn't do it as a planned stocking. They also had a livebearer tank with 6 fancy guppies (2 males - 4 females), 3 swordtails (1 male - 2 females) and 3 Bronze Corydoras. Now, personally, I would consider these examples as VERY overstocked... especially considering what would happen within a month (or even days) in the livebearer tank... but what do some of you other experts out there think??? Should this book be considered just another crappy book that leads so many newbie's into tragedy... like so many other books that I've seen or am I just being too cautious about overstocking? The article on my blog for "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" doesn't come close to these levels of stocking for a 10G tank... but then the fish will be much happier and the hobbyist won't be stuck with tons of tank maintenance, fish health issues, etc., by following my guidelines versus what is found in many books. Compared to Aquarium Fish Magazine, which has some really BAD info in it at times, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine is a MUCH BETTER magazine but I'm not too happy about them promoting the above book. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34450	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob

I'd have to wear some really big shoes for all the toes I'd step on in the fish book publishing world. LOL I might even have to hire some PETA Babes http://www.doubleviking.com/hi-5-five-hottest-peta-babes-8595-p.html as security guards to protect me from all of the other authors/publishers who will want to kill me for exposing their fish killing ways. Do you think Pamela Anderson would also be up for giving me a little... protection. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 5:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine Hi Lenny, Consider writing to the Editor of TFH about the book. I am almost certain that it will not result in the book being pulled but at least you are letting them know they need to think a little harder about the books they offer in the future. Also consider writing some articles for TFH. I met the editor at the ACA convention and he is very receptive to new articles. I know several local fish keepers that have had articles published. This would be a whole new venue for you to get the word out on succesful fish keeping. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 9:06 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine Earlier this year, I switched from the paper TFH magazine to the digital subscription... which was only $1.00 a year... but after getting tired of reading the magazine online, which isn't as conducive to my reading throne.. lol.., I decided to switch back to the paper magazine. As part of signing up for a two year subscription, I got a free 2009 Fish Calendar and also got to choose from a couple of books. I chose "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" (Plus 33 Species To Avoid) by Kathleen Wood. http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939 <http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939> At first glance, it's a pocket sized 4" x 8" plastic coated soft cover book with 191 pages. It's well illustrated with profiles on each of the fish.0AAs I started looking at the introduction and first chapters where they talk about tank sizes, etc., I started getting that queasy feeling. They have a section called "Model Community Tanks". I'm only going to list two out of the five examples for 10G tanks to see what you all think. They do have the scientific names next to the common names but I did not include them for most of the below since they are easily identified by their common names. -------- 10-Gallon Peaceful Global Community Top Swimmers 2 Dwarf Gouramis (male-female pair) Midwater Swimmers 5-7 Glowlight Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Albino Aeneus Corydoras 2 Otocinclus vittatus (14 FISH!!!) -------- 10-Gallon Amazon Quiet Pool Top Swimmers 3 Marbled Hatchetfish Midwater Swimmers 12 Neon Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Panda Corydoras 1 Clown Pleco (19 FISH!!!) -------- In the above example, a Clown Pleco reaches 4" to 5" and is very wide bodied, so it's not like a 4" torpedo shaped fish... and it is an eating-pooping machine like most plecos. Just the Clown Pleco would be a big bioload for a 10G tank, IMO... but maybe a small school of Neons would be OK with it. Normally, a 4" to 5" fish should not be kept in a 10G tank but at least a Clown Pleco isn't a big swimmer so the limited tank size won't affect it as much. I just wouldn't do it as a planned stocking. They also had a livebearer tank with 6 fancy guppies (2 males - 4 females), 3 swordtails (1 male - 2 females) and 3 Bronze Corydoras. Now, personally, I would consider these exampl es as VERY overstocked... especially considering what would happen within a month (or even days) in the livebearer tank... but what do some of you other experts out there think??? Should this book be considered just another crappy book that leads so many newbie's into tragedy... like so many other books that I've seen or am I just being too cautious about overstocking? The article on my blog for "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" doesn't come close to these levels of stocking for a 10G tank... but then the fish will be much happier and the hobbyist won't be stuck with tons of tank maintenance, fish health issues, etc., by following my guidelines versus what is found in many books. Compared to Aquarium Fish Magazine, which has some really BAD info in it at times, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine is a MUCH BETTER magazine but I'm not too happy about them promoting the above book. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34451	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium

How far is the move? Packaging and methods would vary depending on how long it takes to get to your new abode. For instance, if you are just moving across town, bagging the fish like they would in the store would be sufficient. However, if you are moving across the country, this you prove to be unsatisfactory. If you can give us an idea of the distance, we can give you an idea of what you would need to do to prepare and move the fish, plants, and tank. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lisa > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 8:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium > > I have a question for you all. > Not that the time will arrive for a long time yet. But still. Pays to > know what to do. > How does one go about safely moving a planted freshwater aquarium > from one house to another? > > This is my 22gal I'm referring to. > > My LFS says they can fishsit my beautiful babies for a couple of days > while I get myself sorted. But I believe if it is done properly, and > care and all precautions are taken, then it could be done in a day. > > So far in my tank I have a small bunch of pennywart (I think...could be > baby tears) > And what I think is a dwarf anubias attached to a piece of bogwood > I would also like to get some java moss and java fern, and well as > some amazon sword. > > I'm in the last week of my cycle now. And so not this Tuesday, but > the next, I am going to get 2 male and 6 female swordtails. See how > they all adjust to their new home then at a later point if all goes > well, add a single dwarf gourami > > Lisa > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34452	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob

I have less than zero use for peta. They kill more pets than all of us on this list put together. www.petakillsanimals.com I know for a fact you need Protection from the diseases Pamela Anderson carries. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 6:22 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine I'd have to wear some really big shoes for all the toes I'd step on in the fish book publishing world. LOL I might even have to hire some PETA Babes http://www.doubleviking.com/hi-5-five-hottest-peta-babes-8595-p.html as security guards to protect me from all of the other authors/publishers who will want to kill me for exposing their fish killing ways. Do you think Pamela Anderson would also be up for giving me a little... protection. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 5:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine Hi Lenny, Consider writing to the Editor of TFH about the book. I am almost certain that it will not result in the20book being pulled but at least you are letting them know they need to think a little harder about the books they offer in the future. Also consider writing some articles for TFH. I met the editor at the ACA convention and he is very receptive to new articles. I know several local fish keepers that have had articles published. This would be a whole new venue for you to get the word out on succesful fish keeping. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 9:06 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine Earlier this year, I switched from the paper TFH magazine to the digital subscription... which was only $1.00 a year... but after getting tired of reading the magazine online, which isn't as conducive to my reading throne.. lol.., I decided to switch back to the paper magazine. As part of signing up for a two year subscription, I got a free 2009 Fish Calendar and also got to choose from a couple of books. I chose "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" (Plus 33 Species To Avoid) by Kathleen Wood. http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939 <http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939> At first glance, it's a pocket sized 4" x 8" plastic coated soft cover book with 191 pages. It's well illustrated with profiles on each of the fish.0AAs I started looking at the introduction and first chapters where they talk about tank sizes, etc., I started getting that queasy feeling. They have a section called "Model Community Tanks". I'm only going to list two out of the five examples for 10G tanks to see what you all think. They do have the scientific names next to the common names but I did not include them for most of the below since they are easily identified by their common names. -------- 10-Gallon Peaceful Global Community Top Swimmers 2 Dwarf Gouramis (male-female pair) Midwater Swimmers 5-7 Glowlight Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Albino Aeneus Corydoras 2 Otocinclus vittatus (14 FISH!!!) -------- 10-Gallon Amazon Quiet Pool Top Swimmers 3 Marbled Hatchetfish Midwater Swimmers 12 Neon Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Panda Corydoras 1 Clown Pleco (19 FISH!!!) -------- In the above example, a Clown Pleco reaches 4" to 5" and is very wide bodied, so it's not like a 4" torpedo shaped fish... and it is an eating-pooping machine like most plecos. Just the Clown Pleco would be a big bioload for a 10G tank, IMO... but maybe a small school of Neons would be OK with it. Normally, a 4" to 5" fish should not be kept in a 10G tank but at least a Clown Pleco isn't a big swimmer so the limited tank size won't affect it as much. I just wouldn't do it as a planned stocking. They also had a livebearer tank with 6 fancy guppies (2 males - 4 females), 3 swordtails (1 male - 2 females) and 3 Bronze Corydoras. Now, personally, I would consider these exampl=2 0es as VERY overstocked... especially considering what would happen within a month (or even days) in the livebearer tank... but what do some of you other experts out there think??? Should this book be considered just another crappy book that leads so many newbie's into tragedy... like so many other books that I've seen or am I just being too cautious about overstocking? The article on my blog for "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" doesn't come close to these levels of stocking for a 10G tank... but then the fish will be much happier and the hobbyist won't be stuck with tons of tank maintenance, fish health issues, etc., by following my guidelines versus what is found in many books. Compared to Aquarium Fish Magazine, which has some really BAD info in it at times, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine is a MUCH BETTER magazine but I'm not too happy about them promoting the above book. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34453	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

DebR, You probably need to brush up on your Google fu. Took me all of 30 seconds to find http://www.greaterdetroitaquariumsociety.com/, The greater Detroit Aquarium Society. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 7:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK, thanks! I'll look into local groups. I'd be surprised not to find some in the Metro > Detroit area. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donna Ransome > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:04 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > If you join some local fish groups, you can probably find fish fanatics like > us that will sell you a used tank for $1 a gallon. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34454	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium

At most, I'd only be moving 10-15 minutes away from my current residence. So bagging the fish for the drive is fine. What i'm more concerned about are the established plant life, and already cycled water in the tank. As we are on strict water restrictions here in Australia, i can't just 'ditch' the tank's cycled water. ...maybe i should start to save water bottles and fill them with as much water as i can...   Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34455	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium

Lisa, It is not so much the water you need to worry about, so far as the cycle is concerned, but the filter media. The tank will be the last thing to come down, and the first to go up at the new place. Depending on the size of your tank, you would want, to help with conserving your water, the Australian equivalent of some 5 gallon plastic buckets, or 33 gallon plastic trash cans. Rubbermaid is the specified brand in the United States, but any non-toxic plastic will do. You'll also need some newspaper, and fish bags to bag the fish with. You can go to your LFS and offer to buy what you need, but likely they will just give them to you, if it is only a few. You will also need a cooler to place the bagged fish in for transport. On the day of the move, you can empty some of the water to the container, making it easier to catch your fish for bagging. Fill the bag about 1/4 to 1/3 full catch your fish and bag it. Large enough bags or small enough fish and you can place more than one to a bag. Put the bag in the cooler. Once your fish are bagged, empty the rest of the water, making sure you do not empty the filter too much. Once the water is out of the tank, use the newspaper to cover the plants. Moisten it slightly with some tank water. Move the tank, taking care not to spill much out of the filter.(The filter is the important thing here for you nitrifying bacteria. They must be kept moist. Move the water and fish cooler out and go to the new location and repeat in reverse. Remove the newspaper, add the water, start the filter, add the fish, and finish your move. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lisa Lawless > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium > > At most, I'd only be moving 10-15 minutes away from my current residence. So bagging the > fish for the drive is fine. > What i'm more concerned about are the established plant life, and already cycled water in > the tank. > As we are on strict water restrictions here in Australia, i can't just 'ditch' the tank's cycled > water. > ...maybe i should start to save water bottles and fill them with as much water as i can... > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34456	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob

But her acting abilities sure were something to watch in the old Baywatch series. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 8:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine I have less than zero use for peta. They kill more pets than all of us on this list put together. www.petakillsanimals.com I know for a fact you need Protection from the diseases Pamela Anderson carries. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 6:22 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine I'd have to wear some really big shoes for all the toes I'd step on in the fish book publishing world. LOL I might even have to hire some PETA Babes http://www.doubleviking.com/hi-5-five-hottest-peta-babes-8595-p.html <http://www.doubleviking.com/hi-5-five-hottest-peta-babes-8595-p.html> as security guards to protect me from all of the other authors/publishers who will want to kill me for exposing their fish killing ways. Do you think Pamela Anderson would also be up for giving me a little... protection. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 5:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine Hi Lenny, Consider writing to the Editor of TFH about the book. I am almost certain that it will not result in the20book being pulled but at least you are letting them know they need to think a little harder about the books they offer in the future. Also consider writing some articles for TFH. I met the editor at the ACA convention and he is very receptive to new articles. I know several local fish keepers that have had articles published. This would be a whole new venue for you to get the word out on succesful fish keeping. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 9:06 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine Earlier this year, I switched from the paper TFH magazine to the digital subscription... which was only $1.00 a year... but after getting tired of reading the magazine online, which isn't as conducive to my reading throne.. lol.., I decided to switch back to the paper magazine. As part of signing up for a two year subscription, I got a free 2009 Fish Calendar and also got to choose from a couple of books. I chose "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" (Plus 33 Species To Avoid) by Kathleen Wood. http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939 <http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939> <http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939 <http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939> > At first glance, it's a pocket sized 4" x 8" plastic coated soft cover book with 191 pages. It's well illustrated with profiles on each of the fish.0AAs I started looking at the introduction and first chapters where they talk about tank sizes, etc., I started getting that queasy feeling. They have a section called "Model Community Tanks". I'm only going to list two out of the five examples for 10G tanks to see what you all think. They do have the scientific names next to the common names but I did not include them for most of the below since they are easily identified by their common names. -------- 10-Gallon Peaceful Global Community Top Swimmers 2 Dwarf Gouramis (male-female pair) Midwater Swimmers 5-7 Glowlight Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Albino Aeneus Corydoras 2 Otocinclus vittatus (14 FISH!!!) -------- 10-Gallon Amazon Quiet Pool Top Swimmers 3 Marbled Hatchetfish Midwater Swimmers 12 Neon Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Panda Corydoras 1 Clown Pleco (19 FISH!!!) -------- In the above example, a Clown Pleco reaches 4" to 5" and is very wide bodied, so it's not like a 4" torpedo shaped fish... and it is an eating-pooping machine like most plecos. Just the Clown Pleco would be a big bioload for a 10G tank, IMO... but maybe a small school of Neons would be OK with it. Normally, a 4" to 5" fish should not be kept in a 10G tank but at least a Clown Pleco isn't a big swimmer so the limited tank size won't affect it as much. I just wouldn't do it as a planned stocking. They also had a livebearer tank with 6 fancy guppies (2 males - 4 females), 3 swordtails (1 male - 2 females) and 3 Bronze Corydoras. Now, personally, I would consider these exampl=2 0es as VERY overstocked... especially considering what would happen within a month (or even days) in the livebearer tank... but what do some of you other experts out there think??? Should this book be considered just another crappy book that leads so many newbie's into tragedy... like so many other books that I've seen or am I just being too cautious about overstocking? The article on my blog for "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" doesn't come close to these levels of stocking for a 10G tank... but then the fish will be much happier and the hobbyist won't be stuck with tons of tank maintenance, fish health issues, etc., by following my guidelines versus what is found in many books. Compared to Aquarium Fish Magazine, which has some really BAD info in it at times, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine is a MUCH BETTER magazine but I'm not too happy about them promoting the above book. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34457	From: Kevin	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: method I use to keep water crystal clear.

Pet stores sell a battery operated gravel cleaner. This cleaner has a small pouch (looks like a baby sock) to filter the waste. They sell this filter seperate. I use the filter stretched over an open tube on the bottom of a power head. The suction of the powerhead holds the tube on. I place the power head top and front of the tank for very easy removal of the tube. The sock/bag plugs in a day. Removal,rinsing and reinstalling takes me 20 seconds. I have tried many ways to have super polished water and this has outdone anything I have tried in results and maintenance time. My regular filters now I dont touch, they are just bio filters.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34458	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob

Amen mike. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:01:28 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine But her acting abilities sure were something to watch in the old Baywatch series. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 8:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine I have less than zero use for peta. They kill more pets than all of us on this list put together. www.petakillsanimals.com I know for a fact you need Protection from the diseases Pamela Anderson carries. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 6:22 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine I'd have to wear some really big shoes for all the toes I'd step on in the fish book publishing world. LOL I might even have to hire some PETA Babes http://www.doubleviking.com/hi-5-five-hottest-peta-babes-8595-p.html <http://www.doubleviking.com/hi-5-five-hottest-peta-babes-8595-p.html> as security guards to protect me from all of the other authors/publishers who will want to kill me for exposing their fish killing ways. Do you think Pamela Anderson would also be up for giving me a little... protection. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 5:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine Hi Lenny, Consider writing to the Editor of TFH about the book. I am almost certain that it will not result in the20book being pulled but at least you are letting them know they need to think a little harder about the books they offer in the future. Also consider writing some articles for TFH. I met the editor at the ACA convention and he is very receptive to new articles. I know several local fish keepers that have had articles published. This would be a whole new venue for you to get the word out on succesful fish keeping. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 9:06 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine Earlier this year, I switched from the paper TFH magazine to the digital subscription... which was only $1.00 a year... but after getting tired of reading the magazine online, which isn't as conducive to my reading throne.. lol.., I decided to switch back to the paper magazine. As part of signing up for a two year subscription, I got a free 2009 Fish Calendar and also got to choose from a couple of books. I chose "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" (Plus 33 Species To Avoid) by Kathleen Wood. http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939 <http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939> <http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939 <http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes-Fascinating/dp/1890087939> > At first glance, it's a pocket sized 4" x 8" plastic coated soft cover book with 191 pages. It's well illustrated with profiles on each of the fish.0AAs I started looking at the introduction and first chapters where they talk about tank sizes, etc., I started getting that queasy feeling. They have a section called "Model Community Tanks". I'm only going to list two out of the five examples for 10G tanks to see what you all think. They do have the scientific names next to the common names but I did not include them for most of the below since they are easily identified by their common names. -------- 10-Gallon Peaceful Global Community Top Swimmers 2 Dwarf Gouramis (male-female pair) Midwater Swimmers 5-7 Glowlight Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Albino Aeneus Corydoras 2 Otocinclus vittatus (14 FISH!!!) -------- 10-Gallon Amazon Quiet Pool Top Swimmers 3 Marbled Hatchetfish Midwater Swimmers 12 Neon Tetras Bottom Dwellers 3 Panda Corydoras 1 Clown Pleco (19 FISH!!!) -------- In the above example, a Clown Pleco reaches 4" to 5" and is very wide bodied, so it's not like a 4" torpedo shaped fish... and it is an eating-pooping machine like most plecos. Just the Clown Pleco would be a big bioload for a 10G tank, IMO... but maybe a small school of Neons would be OK with it. Normally, a 4" to 5" fish should not be kept in a 10G tank but at least a Clown Pleco isn't a big swimmer so the limited tank size won't affect it as much. I just wouldn't do it as a planned stocking. They also had a livebearer tank with 6 fancy guppies (2 males - 4 females), 3 swordtails (1 male - 2 females) and 3 Bronze Corydoras. Now, personally, I would consider these exampl=2 0es as VERY overstocked... especially considering what would happen within a month (or even days) in the livebearer tank... but what do some of you other experts out there think??? Should this book be considered just another crappy book that leads so many newbie's into tragedy... like so many other books that I've seen or am I just being too cautious about overstocking? The article on my blog for "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" doesn't come close to these levels of stocking for a 10G tank... but then the fish will be much happier and the hobbyist won't be stuck with tons of tank maintenance, fish health issues, etc., by following my guidelines versus what is found in many books. Compared to Aquarium Fish Magazine, which has some really BAD info in it at times, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine is a MUCH BETTER magazine but I'm not too happy about them promoting the above book. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34459	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Yep, I found that group, too. I did say that I'd be surprised not to find some in the Metro Detroit area. Now I just have to decide if it's worth a 45 minute drive to make the meetings. There's a group in Ann Arbor that's a bit closer, but not much. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? DebR, You probably need to brush up on your Google fu. Took me all of 30 seconds to find http://www.greaterdetroitaquariumsociety.com/, The greater Detroit Aquarium Society. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 7:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK, thanks! I'll look into local groups. I'd be surprised not to find some in the Metro > Detroit area. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donna Ransome > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:04 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > If you join some local fish groups, you can probably find fish fanatics like > us that will sell you a used tank for $1 a gallon. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34460	From: Lisa	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium

Thanks. But how do i do it with an U/G filter where the substrate iS the filter medum. There is about 10kilo of gravel in there alone, and the tank is 30inch in length. So it's a heavy tank. On top of all that? The tank is upstairs in my bedroom. I'll have to get my dad and my boyfriend to carry the tank PLUS the tiny bit of water still in it down stairs, through the front door, and into the boot (trunk) of my dad's car...or work van. All other ornaments can be put in a box. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34461	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Just go back from checking out the 72 gal....

From what I saw, he had the suction/intake on one end.. with the black intake strainer on it (which I can clearly see on the right end).. and the return line going into the Bio-Wheel holder on the left end. Are there actually two return lines? If so, you can probably do whatever you like.. depending on the type of fish. No need to replace all the tubing. You can get a bottle brush for a dollar. Attach a piece of wire (or clothes hanger) to the bottle brush handle, string it through the line and then pull the bottle brush through. You might have to do it a couple of times but it will clean out all the algae and stuff. make sure the tubing is soaking in a bucket of water before doing this so the algae is softened. They even sell 5' long flexible tubing brushes used in plumbing, air-conditioning, etc. that would also work. I think I saw them at Harbor Freight for a reasonably low price but I use the bottle brush and a piece of old extension cord to clean mine every year or so. One fluorescent light bulb isn't much if you ever wanted live plants. That would have to be upgraded since it would just be a little over 1/2 watts per gallon right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 7:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just go back from checking out the 72 gal.... Well, the only thing that upset me was he emptied out the tank..... So, I have to start from "ground zero" on setting it up. Now, the gravel is in a bucket, do I just rinse it off and put it in the tank? I will be replacing all the tubing since the inside is covered with algae. A question on the way he had the Marineland 350 set up: he had one return going to the bio-wheel and another on the other side of the tank, good idea? The intake was in the center of the tank. The light was only for one tube, I thought it should have been two tubes? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34462	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Deb, Go check them out at least once. I drive over an hour each way for the two "local" clubs I regularly attend each month and it is well worth the trip for me. Cheap used tanks, locally bred fish at really great prices, breeders tips and advice for caring for the fish, Guest speakers with tales of far off places and rare fish, auctions and raffles of fish goodies. If you breed fish it is also a great way to make a little money back and find good homes for them. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 9:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Yep, I found that group, too. I did say that I'd be surprised not to find some in the Metro Detroit area. Now I just have to decide if it's worth a 45 minute drive to make the meetings. There's a group in Ann Arbor that's a bit closer, but not much. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? DebR, You probably need to brush up on your Google fu. Took me all of 30 seconds to find http://www.greaterdetroitaquariumsociety.com/, The greater Detroit Aquarium Society. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday , December 14, 2008 7:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK, thanks! I'll look into local groups. I'd be surprised not to find some in the Metro > Detroit area. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donna Ransome > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:04 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > If you join some local fish groups, you can probably find fish fanatics like > us that will sell you a used tank for $1 a gallon. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34463	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium

After the tank is empty, except for the gravel an enough water to barely cover the gravel, slide a piece of 1/2" or thicker plywood under the tank with at least a couple of inches on all sides. Screw down some 1" x 1" strips (or any kind of scrap wood pieces) around the base of the tank to keep it from sliding and then they can carry the board... so they are not putting any stress on the tank frame, corners, etc. Try to keep it as level as possible to keep your gravel/substrate from shifting, if it's a planted tank. If not planted, then the gravel shifting a little isn't as much of a worry, but still keep it as level as possible. A UGF filter is not the best kind of filter for a planted tank unless you just have the UGF plates in the front of the tank and the planted section in the back of the tank. Above is basically how I moved my 65G tank down from the 2nd floor to the first floor in my new place, after Katrina. Oh yeah.. one last thing.. don't move into a 3rd floor apartment. I almost disowned a friend after helping him move up into a 3rd floor apartment... and then him moving out after only one year but it wasn't as bad as carrying things up the stairs. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium Thanks. But how do i do it with an U/G filter where the substrate iS the filter medum. There is about 10kilo of gravel in there alone, and the tank is 30inch in length. So it's a heavy tank. On top of all that? The tank is upstairs in my bedroom. I'll have to get my dad and my boyfriend to carry the tank PLUS the tiny bit of water still in it down stairs, through the front door, and into the boot (trunk) of my dad's car...or work van. All other ornaments can be put in a box. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34464	From: Lisa	Date: 12/14/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium

Thanks Lenny. Yeah. The only plants i have in there atm are some pennywort and a bit of anubias on driftwood. I'm thinking of sticking to the driftwood type plants for the very reason of the U/G. At least the driftwood plants don't develop roots into the substrate. That's whay i was also going to get some floating plants tomorrow. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34465	From: Kevin	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: why would my tank water turn black?

i am asking because in about to day my water tured black my tank wasent that durty before hand could anny of theres prodicts make it turn black i used easy balance with nitraban and i also used betta clor bright and top fin 7 day betta feeders

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34466	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium

The gravel will remain moist, being covered by the damp papers. You are looking at about 60 pounds between the tank, substrate, plants and water remaining in the tank (I'm guessing). For the length, it would probably be best to have two people move it anyhow, to minimize stress on the seams. So, it should be a piece of cake to move. Your boyfriend and dad would want to try to keep the tank fairly level when they are on the stairs. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lisa > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 12:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium > > Thanks. But how do i do it with an U/G filter where the substrate iS > the filter medum. > > There is about 10kilo of gravel in there alone, and the tank is 30inch > in length. > So it's a heavy tank. > > On top of all that? The tank is upstairs in my bedroom. I'll have to > get my dad and my boyfriend to carry the tank PLUS the tiny bit of > water still in it down stairs, through the front door, and into the boot > (trunk) of my dad's car...or work van. > > All other ornaments can be put in a box. > > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34467	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: method I use to keep water crystal clear.

Keeping your substrate clean does not negate the need for maintaining your filter unless it is an undergravel filter. Any other filter will remove particles from the water column, before they become part of your substrate. If you happen to be using carbon in your filter, it will become depleted, and no longer be effective. You do not mention doing regular water changes, but that is also part of a good maintenance schedule. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Kevin > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 12:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] method I use to keep water crystal clear. > > Pet stores sell a battery operated gravel cleaner. This cleaner has > a small pouch (looks like a baby sock) to filter the waste. They sell > this filter seperate. I use the filter stretched over an open tube on > the bottom of a power head. The suction of the powerhead holds the > tube on. I place the power head top and front of the tank for very > easy removal of the tube. The sock/bag plugs in a day. Removal,rinsing > and reinstalling takes me 20 seconds. I have tried many ways to have > super polished water and this has outdone anything I have tried in > results and maintenance time. My regular filters now I dont touch, > they are just bio filters. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34468	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

That’s how far away my club is. Think of it as a springboard. Look for others who attend or are members, but live closer to you. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 12:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Deb, Go check them out at least once. I drive over an hour each way for the two "local" clubs I regularly attend each month and it is well worth the trip for me. Cheap used tanks, locally bred fish at really great prices, breeders tips and advice for caring for the fish, Guest speakers with tales of far off places and rare fish, auctions and raffles of fish goodies. If you breed fish it is also a great way to make a little money back and find good homes for them. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@ <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> prodigy.net> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 9:10 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Yep, I found that group, too. I did say that I'd be surprised not to find some in the Metro Detroit area. Now I just have to decide if it's worth a 45 minute drive to make the meetings. There's a group in Ann Arbor that's a bit closer, but not much. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? DebR, You probably need to brush up on your Google fu. Took me all of 30 seconds to find http://www.greaterd <http://www.greaterdetroitaquariumsociety.com/,> etroitaquariumsociety.com/, The greater Detroit Aquarium Society. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday , December 14, 2008 7:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > OK, thanks! I'll look into local groups. I'd be surprised not to find some in the Metro > Detroit area. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donna Ransome > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:04 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > If you join some local fish groups, you can probably find fish fanatics like > us that will sell you a used tank for $1 a gallon. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34469	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: why would my tank water turn black?

To get things back on track, read this entire reply and then do a series of 25% PWC's (partial water changes) vacuuming your gravel with each one. You could do a 25% PWC every two hours for the first day to get most of the funky water out of the tank while giving the fish a chance to acclimate back to good water. They acclimate to bad water so they have to re-acclimate to good water slowly. If the Betta is in less than a couple of gallons of water, start doing daily 25% PWC's on the tank (or is it just a smaller Betta bowl/vase?) DO NOT do 100% water changes as this is not good for fish in most cases. It's much better to do more frequent partial water changes than to put them off and try to fix things with a drastic water change. You were trying too hard to rely on junk-science too much, rather than doing the basic things that need to be done to successfully keep fish. It may not be your fault as you may be falling for all of the advertisements on some of the junk products out there. Remember this simple rule... 95% of the stuff on the pet store shelves are NOT needed 95% of the time. The only "chemical" you should be adding to your tank is a simple dechlor product if your tap water has been treated with chlorine or chloramine. Other than that, approach any other products with a great deal of skepticism and check out here before buying and double check before using anything else. The Tetra Easy Balance With Nitraban chemical is JUNK... GARBAGE... TRASH. The Tetra scientists who came up with this stuff should be hung by their... toes... until dead. Yeah.. I guess you can tell how I feel about this crappy product. I've written about this before and I even found the MSDS sheet on it, which Tetra hides from people, and it's a couple of junk chemicals mixed together, that should NOT be added to fish tanks on a permanent basis. The 7 day feeders should NOT be used. It would be better for the fish to go 7 days without eating than to be exposed to the junk ingredients that are in those feeders. Only one of the top six ingredients has anything to do with fish food... and fish meal is usually not a very good ingredient even when it's one of the ingredients in other better food products. Here is a list for the Top Fin product you mentioned: Ingredients: Calcium sulfate, fish meal, wheat starch, wheat gluten, magnesium sulfate, brewer's dried yeast, krill spirulina, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin c), vitamin a acetate, choline chloride, a-tocopheryl acetate (source of vitamin e), niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, thiamin, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, d-activated animal sterol (source of vitamin d3), vitamin b12 supplement, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, iron proteinate, ethoxyquin (preservative). If the "betta clor bright" is supposed to be HBH's Betta Color Bright fish food, then it's OK as part of the fishes diet but should not be the only thing fed to them. All fish need a varied diet. Here's a good article on Betta Care. http://thegab.org/Articles/BettaBasics.html http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 2:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] why would my tank water turn black? i am asking because in about to day my water tured black my tank wasent that durty before hand could anny of theres prodicts make it turn black i used easy balance with nitraban and i also used betta clor bright and top fin 7 day betta feeders

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34470	From: K'lyn	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hob

I bought this book when my husband and I first started keeping aquariums. There are some things in it that are a little iffy but I find it to be a fantastic reference book. I definatly think the fish listed for the starter aquarium ideas could either be cut down or use a little more room but the authors does say they're ideas. Whenever buying a new pet of any kind and also getting into a new hobby that is going to be somewhat permanant if not life long you should always research it first and use more than one source. Also it gives a pretty good variety of fish, their agressiveness, the maximum length they grow and based on that you pretty much know the aquarium size they can be in but if you get confused (for new people to the hobby) they have the minimum aquarium size, food, habitat, aquascaping and aquarium care and breeding conditions if you're interested. It also gives a list of fish species for new aquarists to avoid and why whether it's size, lifespan, care, or special needs. That way when you LFS doesn't know anything about the fish they sell and you bring home a 2 inch baby pacu and it grows to 2 feet long and you don't know what to do with it, you're covered. There's also a Saltwater Fish version though I don't keep saltwater fish so I'm not sure how accurate it is. It runs along the same lines as the freshwater fish with compatablility, food, size, aquascaping, etc. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > I have less than zero use for peta. They kill more pets than all of us on this list put together. > > www.petakillsanimals.com > > I know for a fact you need Protection from the diseases Pamela Anderson carries. > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 6:22 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine > > > > > > > > I'd have to wear some really big shoes for all the toes I'd step on in the > fish book publishing world. LOL I might even have to hire some PETA Babes > http://www.doubleviking.com/hi-5-five-hottest-peta-babes-8595- p.html as > security guards to protect me from all of the other authors/publishers who > will want to kill me for exposing their fish killing ways. Do you think > Pamela Anderson would also be up for giving me a little... protection. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 5:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & > Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine > > Hi Lenny, > > Consider writing to the Editor of TFH about the book. I am almost certain > that it will not result in the20book being pulled but at least you are > letting them know they need to think a little harder about the books they > offer in the future. > > Also consider writing some articles for TFH. I met the editor at the ACA > convention and he is very receptive to new articles. I know several local > fish keepers that have had articles published. This would be a whole new > venue for you to get the word out on succesful fish keeping. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 9:06 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] Book Review - "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" & > Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine > > Earlier this year, I switched from the paper TFH magazine to the digital > subscription... which was only $1.00 a year... but after getting tired of > reading the magazine online, which isn't as conducive to my reading throne.. > lol.., I decided to switch back to the paper magazine. As part of signing up > for a two year subscription, I got a free 2009 Fish Calendar and also got to > choose from a couple of books. I chose "The 101 Best Tropical Fishes" > (Plus 33 Species To Avoid) by Kathleen Wood. > > http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes- Fascinating/dp/1890087939 > <http://www.amazon.com/101-Best-Tropical-Fishes- Fascinating/dp/1890087939> > > At first glance, it's a pocket sized 4" x 8" plastic coated soft cover book > with 191 pages. It's well illustrated with profiles on each of the fish.0AAs > I started looking at > the introduction and first chapters where they talk > about tank sizes, etc., I started getting that queasy feeling. They have a > section called "Model Community Tanks". I'm only going to list two out of > the five examples for 10G tanks to see what you all think. They do have the > scientific names next to the common names but I did not include them for > most of the below since they are easily identified by their common names. > > -------- > > 10-Gallon Peaceful Global Community > Top Swimmers > 2 Dwarf Gouramis (male-female pair) > Midwater Swimmers > 5-7 Glowlight Tetras > Bottom Dwellers > 3 Albino Aeneus Corydoras > 2 Otocinclus vittatus > > (14 FISH!!!) > -------- > > 10-Gallon Amazon Quiet Pool > Top Swimmers > 3 Marbled Hatchetfish > Midwater Swimmers > 12 Neon Tetras > Bottom Dwellers > 3 Panda Corydoras > 1 Clown Pleco > > (19 FISH!!!) > -------- > > In the above example, a Clown Pleco reaches 4" to 5" and is very wide > bodied, so it's not like a 4" torpedo shaped fish... and it is an > eating-pooping machine like most plecos. Just the Clown Pleco would be a big > bioload for a 10G tank, IMO... but maybe a small school of Neons would be OK > with it. Normally, a 4" to 5" fish should not be kept in a 10G tank but at > least a Clown Pleco isn't a big swimmer so the limited tank size won't > affect it as much. I just wouldn't do it as a planned stocking. > > They also had a livebearer tank with 6 fancy guppies (2 males - 4 females), > 3 swordtails (1 male - 2 females) and 3 Bronze Corydoras. > > Now, personally, I would consider these exampl=2 > 0es as VERY overstocked... > especially considering what would happen within a month (or even days) in > the livebearer tank... but what do some of you other experts out there > think??? > > Should this book be considered just another crappy book that leads so many > newbie's into tragedy... like so many other books that I've seen or am I > just being too cautious about overstocking? > > The article on my blog for "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" doesn't > come close to these levels of stocking for a 10G tank... but then the fish > will be much happier and the hobbyist won't be stuck with tons of tank > maintenance, fish health issues, etc., by following my guidelines versus > what is found in many books. > > Compared to Aquarium Fish Magazine, which has some really BAD info in it at > times, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine is a MUCH BETTER magazine but I'm not > too happy about them promoting the above book. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34471	From: bill1433	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium

Hi  Lisa!  Nix on those water bottles.  How about good clean 5-gallon buckets?  These could also be use for the transport of the fish too and will make getting into their new home a breeze just use a piece of air line tubing with a small knot and allow the "drip method" to take over.   Also on the buckets?  You can get them at Lowe's or Home Depot but an even better source might be your local bakery or anyone that uses a lot of maple syrup, including restaurants.  These buckets always come with good tight lids ( a plus) and since they carry food stuffs, are very easy to clean out, just use good hot water in our bath tub and no cleaning chemicals.  It works for me.  I found out that all I had to do was ask!  They gave them to me free!   Bill --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moving house (eventually) and bringing the aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 10:38 PM At most, I'd only be moving 10-15 minutes away from my current residence. So bagging the fish for the drive is fine. What i'm more concerned about are the established plant life, and already cycled water in the tank. As we are on strict water restrictions here in Australia, i can't just 'ditch' the tank's cycled water. ....maybe i should start to save water bottles and fill them with as much water as i can...   Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs yahoo.com/ homepageset/ ?p1=other& p2=au&p3= tagline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34472	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Re: why would my tank water turn black?

What do you mean by your tank turned black? The water turned black? Some surfaces in teh tank are covered with black powdery or crusty stuff? Or deep layers of gravel suddenly went black adn gave off foul smelling gas? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kev48us@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 2:10 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] why would my tank water turn black? i am asking because in about to day my water tured black my tank wasent that durty before hand could anny of theres prodicts make it turn black i used easy balance with nitraban and i also used betta clor bright and top fin 7 day betta feeders ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34473	From: Todd	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: HOT protien skimmer

Ive recently puchased a 90 gallon fishtank i want to make it a marine tank but i dont think im goning to make it a reef tank. i want to make it somewhat of a fish only tank. i need to buy a hang on top protien skimmer ive noteced a big difference in price range. I would like to go as cheep as posible but still have a decent working skimmer. does any one recondmendations on what protien skimmer i should purchase???

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34474	From: Bill Lane	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Holiday Greetings

Hi All, I have not stopped by here for a while. Here is our on line greeting this year. http://www.lanestrains.com/Lane_Holiday_Card_2008.jpg We hope you have a splashing good time! Thank You, Bill Lane Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1988 See my finished models at: http://www.lanestrains.com Winner of the 2007 Josh Seltzer NASG Website Award Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale! Custom Train Parts Design http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded (Trading is MUCH preferred) http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls ***Join the PRR T&HS*** The other members are not ALL like me! http://www.prrths.com http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society It's FREE to join! http://www.prslhs.com Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34475	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/15/2008
Subject: Freshwater fish for the asking

Hi, by the first of February I will have close to 25 beautiful Neon Sunburst Platys (Moons) ready for adoption. A good hardy community one fish that is easy care and alway attractive to you aquarium. If you are close to Dayton, Ohio please let me know. Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34476	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm - PWC 11pm DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as of 12/10/08. While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced to the aquarium solution bottle. Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source of its cause. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles Fungus Clear): > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too much. > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food to Omega One pellets) > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably a sign of healing? > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related to the fishes' problem? > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from previous inhabitants. > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd do without you guys. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. If, by > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the surface > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass in > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > filter outlet. > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed up at > the surface against their preference as though their swim bladders > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice rather > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > internal infection or not. > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on their > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and is > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect something > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? Are > there any other external issues that have recently become apparent? > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you have > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as to > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to 55 > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as again > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced support) > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal between > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and Lenny > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, you > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) in re- > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an environment > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any reptile > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly elevated > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all the medical > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in the hospital > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be absorbed > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out by their > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which is > stressful to fish. > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the surface, > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter return. The > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All the agitation > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there is more gas > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. The up/down > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a tank > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they do not > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I guess if it was > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by removing all the > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a price. I've > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that used to have > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. Tell them > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to about $25.00. > ;-) > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that shouldn't > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic of the same > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure the front > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone removed that > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where the glass had > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 pounds of > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me know. I > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > ---My add-on----- > (inserted for continuity) > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus Clear. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of Jungle > Fungus Clear): > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the bottom. > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB also > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. And > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up every > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; Nitrate: > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist for > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need resealing, > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the plastic > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a fish > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see that > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this tank > falls through. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I > figured my salt levels. > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't > make that much of a difference. > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his > broken hip over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find > the > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > with > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only > if to > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > that "Carol > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > even > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite > as well > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > recuperating. > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 > tsp > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes > since. > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > reduced > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. > If > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would > now > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > since last > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > wondering if > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe > you > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > your > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially > with > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results > as > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can > often > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > reagents may > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' > Fungus > > Cure) > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not > as > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > yesterday's > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > missed it > > in > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > water is > > not > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > > injurious > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we > strive > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), > there is > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > that's > > still > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your > tank > > is > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > frequent > > PWC's > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > straightened out > > you > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones > that the > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to > their > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their > food, > > and > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of > their > > diet > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you > add > > it. > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications > to > > water > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out > enough > > water > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > You're not > > too > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make > that > > much > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 > tsp > > per > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > > range. > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > even > > though > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on > some > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > approaching, > > if > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > Cyprinidae > > are > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- > they > > can > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > while > > there > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > medications > > (and > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as > part > > of > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > > additional > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this > factor > > will > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > treatments. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > baseline > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be > cycling > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes > to > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked > my dd > > and > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that > was > > off. > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > saline > > with > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G > in the > > tank. > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one > of > > the > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > normal > > today, > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > moment. I > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > complications. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now > for a > > > number of > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > eliminate this > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did > to > > some > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health > in > > their > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > reverse, > > it > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least > to me > > > (unless > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity > at 20 > > > gallons > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up > with > > 30 > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > you'd > > like to > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that > we can > > get > > > a > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 > tsp > > of > > > salt > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would > equate > > to 4 > > > 1/2 > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of > salt in > > > their > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > > gallon > > > (not 3 > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more > I > > felt it > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: > this > > > measure > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have > their > > > limits > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > Cichlids > > > seeming to > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > > having > > > the > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > > somewhere in > > > the > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish > just > > what > > > your > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could > act > > > adversely > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > advancement of > > the > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > affecting > > > your > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know > this > > is > > > the > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit > of > > other > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is > done > > > gradually > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants > will > > > tolerate > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > Anacharis -- > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings > of > > several > > > days > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and > both > > your > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your > cycle > > > suddenly > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day > your > > > nitrite > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > > nitrate > > > was > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). > A > > > discrepency > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test > result > > (or > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, > I'd > > suggest > > > you > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > disease. > > > Those > > > > medications would include any of the following: > A.P.I.'s > > Furan > > > II, > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear > Tank > > > Buddies -- > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their > main > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > Ich/Malachite > > > Green > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > all, > > Fungal > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > somewhat > > weak > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille > and > > > generally > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching > the > > what we > > > > were doing. > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't > improved > > at > > > all > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and > seems > > to be > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > base of > > her > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > because CB > > seems > > > a > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > > getting I > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your > money > > for > > > the > > > > bigger > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering > the > > water a > > > > little (or > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to > create > > > enough > > > > surface > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. > That > > and > > > live > > > > plants are > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 > levels > > > down. > > > > Cooler > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully > Raven > > will > > > > start to turn > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I > didn't > > do a > > > PWC > > > > yesterday) > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water > level > > so > > > I > > > > can see > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > changes. I'll > > > look > > > > into an > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget > right > > now. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but > then > > > activated > > > > carbon will > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > Carbon > > also > > > does > > > > not remove > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably > just > > an A- > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in > my old > > home > > > and > > > > I would > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta > tank > > but it > > > > simply isn't > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of > water > > that > > > > you'll be > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used > it on > > my > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up > to dose > > 1G > > > or > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > precise > > syringe > > > to > > > > worry about > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur > filter > > for > > > > simplicity... > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% > PWC's > > on a > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the > worst > > in > > > the > > > > world, I > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter > for > > the > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2752208 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2754035 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2754035> > > > > would last > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap > Water > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G > tank > > and > > > > changing 25% > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over > 3 > > > years ... > > > > probably much > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters > on > > the > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats > more > > > water > > > > but it's > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > > getting > > > the > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > > online > > > from > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth > paying > > more > > > for > > > > shipping > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap > water > > > without > > > > using the > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will > use > > in > > > the > > > > future. Test > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the > dechlor > > will > > > > break the > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water > goes > > > through > > > > a Brita > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty > things > > (I'll > > > > search down > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The > zero > > > reading > > > > is right > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > > filter. I > > > > don't add > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > straight > > tap > > > water > > > > and > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the > extra > > > aeration > > > > helps Raven > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > > product > > > (which > > > > one do you > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding > the > > dechlor? > > > If > > > > you didn't > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did > see > > the > > > 0.5ppm > > > > after > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that > your > > tap > > > > water is > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made > by > > binding > > > > chlorine and > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > alarming, > > > especially > > > > when cycling > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > fully > > cycled > > > > tank, it will > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > > handled by > > > the > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > system > > but > > > also > > > > in other > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as > the > > sickness > > > > itself. The > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > osmoregulatory > > > balance > > > > with the > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > > through > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by > doing > > your > > > > testing and > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > Goldfish > > needs > > > lots > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > This can be > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering > the > > water > > > level > > > > a little.. > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > water > > causes > > > more > > > > surface > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > at the > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to > the > > water. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it > and > > then > > > > you'll have to > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to > articles > > > referenced > > > > above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > sign. She > > is > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug- > eyes) > > is > > > > hiding under the > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > > started > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired > and > > wants > > > to > > > > sit on the > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches > are > > slowly > > > > disappearing. > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt > is > > still > > > about > > > > 25T in a > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > > yesterday > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn > out to > > be a > > > > male, I guess > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > teaspoons > > per > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > goldfish... > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > adding 3 > > > teaspoons > > > > per gallon > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this > will > > slowly > > > > bring the > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. > I > > started > > > > typing my > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > already > > started > > > > doing this.. > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > water > > just to > > > > make sure your > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > > teaspoons > > > to > > > > every five > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people > use > > those > > > 5G > > > > buckets for > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in > a 5G > > > bucket, > > > > fill it to > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > salt, > > etc.) > > > and > > > > then slowly > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water > out, use > > the > > > > same mark to > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the > 2.5G > > or 3G > > > > mark is you > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or > you'll > > > spill a > > > > lot when > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your > tank, > > L" x > > > W" x > > > > H" and > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > > yourself. > > > For > > > > your > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on > any > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the > formula. > > L" > > > x W" > > > > x H" = > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > adverse > > effect > > > on the > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow > so it > > > > probably just > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > > healthy > > > was > > > > more > > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right > now. > > > Sometimes > > > > we have to > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > completely > > kills > > > off > > > > all of the > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing > better (I > > > always > > > > hate saying > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but > every > > once > > > in a > > > > while, we > > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > > Goldfish > > > have a > > > > HUGE will > > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some > really bad > > > > conditions > > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store > that > > > doesn't > > > > give proper > > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, > cycling, > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on > his > > sleigh > > > for > > > > you... and > > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. > It's > > > difficult > > > > to sex > > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > > harder to > > > > tell but males > > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their > gill > > covers > > > and > > > > the leading > > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these > for the > > > first > > > > time and > > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little > white > > bumps > > > just > > > > on the > > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, > that > > means > > > you > > > > have a > > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just > have to > > > rename > > > > him to > > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of > the > > fish > > > to > > > > have found > > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so > you're OK > > > with > > > > them. LOL > > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding > stars/tubercles so > > > you'll > > > > know what to > > > > > look for. > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these > goldfish) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it > won't > > be > > > 1.0 > > > > again > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I > was > > putting > > > in. > > > > I just > > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was > thinking > > it > > > didn't > > > > feel like > > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is > 7.5). > > > Today > > > > when I did > > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference with > a > > ruler > > > and > > > > it was > > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made sure > to > > count > > > > gallons as I > > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I could > have > > sworn > > > my > > > > dd told me > > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! I > figure > > > yesterday > > > > I removed > > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to make it > > 27.5T. > > > > Tonight I removed > > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to make > 25.6T. > > The > > > fish > > > > seem to be > > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next PWC > and > > just > > > not > > > > add any salt > > > > > back and that should get it within an acceptable > level > > for a > > > 20 > > > > gallon tank. > > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria with > the > > extra > > > > salt. It's > > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff on > the > > > goldfish. > > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 > Nitrite: .25 > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10 > > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through > Brita > > filter): > > > > pH:7.4; > > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the tank > > readings, > > > the > > > > pH usually > > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but reads > lower > > than > > > 7.6 > > > > and > > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the high > range > > test > > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API makes > a > > > combination > > > > pack GH and > > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get them, > having > > the > > > > four basics > > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine for > > goldfish > > > > since your pH > > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough hardness > in your > > > water. > > > > As your > > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much between > PWC's, > > then > > > the > > > > GH and KH > > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big > drops in > > pH > > > after > > > > a week, > > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p and > then a > > > capital > > > > H since it > > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH are > always > > > > capitalized for > > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > > Alkalinity in > > > > some test > > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason for > the KH > > > instead > > > > of CH is > > > > > that this testing scale is based on German degrees > of > > > hardness > > > > and Karbonat > > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate > Hardness, > > thus > > > KH. > > > > A German > > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm > (actually > > 17.85 > > > but > > > > 18 for > > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you see > GH as > > > 180ppm, > > > > that would > > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34477	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?

How long does it take for platy fry to grow to maturity? Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34478	From: greychildren	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?

Hello I think 4 to six months i have sunburst platys myself.. lost my female three weeks ago but she left me with 10 offspring hopping at least ones a female. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > How long does it take for platy fry to grow to maturity? > > Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34479	From: Philip Charles	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?

They will reach sexual maturity after 3 to 4 months. Here is a nice link reference to assist.  http://www.fishandtips.com/displaydb.php?ID=22 Philip --- On Tue, 12/16/08, amsterbaum <amsterbaum@...> wrote: From: amsterbaum <amsterbaum@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy Fry - how long to maturity? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 9:58 AM How long does it take for platy fry to grow to maturity? Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34480	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: What is wrong with my platy?

Ich (4 weeks ago now) successfully treated, but she looks sicker instead of better. Eats with excellent appetite, but after eating or any exertion collapses on the gravel, panting. Spends most of her time bottom-sitting, even lying down with her tail curled up. Every so often swims up to the surface, but doesn't swim around the tank except at mealtime. Between the panting and surfacing, she appears starved for oxygen. Looks thin. Any ideas? Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34481	From: greychildren	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?

what are you water perimeters? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > Ich (4 weeks ago now) successfully treated, but she looks sicker > instead of better. Eats with excellent appetite, but after eating or > any exertion collapses on the gravel, panting. Spends most of her time > bottom-sitting, even lying down with her tail curled up. Every so > often swims up to the surface, but doesn't swim around the tank except > at mealtime. Between the panting and surfacing, she appears starved > for oxygen. Looks thin. Any ideas? > > Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34482	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: foam on surface

Thanks for the reply. I have albino orydoras---quite a lot of them and that is why I'm going to a bigger tank. I may have figured out the reason for the foam. You say it is usually caused by high levels of dissolved proteins. I have been plagued for years with those small snails, and I have to get rid of sometimes hundreds every time I clean the filter and change water. I recently noticed I don't have so many snails, and many are always around the water line, like they are trying to leave, so I wonder if they are dying because of the water change. I switched bottled water from Jewel to Walmart spring water. That's when the foam started. Interesting. If that's it, I'll have to continue with the Walmart spring water and change the water more frequently. Thanks, Judy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Foam is usually caused by high levels dissolved proteins and other DOC's > (dissolved organic compounds) in the water. Some medicines/treatments will > cause foaming but you did not indicate that you've done any kind of > treatment. This likely means you need to increase the frequency of your > filter maintenance and 25% PWC's (partial water changes). If you are doing > them once a week now, increase them to twice a week. Are you also vacuuming > your gravel with each weekly tank maintenance? > > What kind of albino catfish do you have? "Catfish" is a simple name for a > very large category of fish with thousands of species... some staying as > small as 1" and others growing to small child-eating size of 6 feet long and > weighing hundreds of pounds. > > What worked for tank maintenance when the fish were small will not continue > to work as the fish grow. Most fish grow eight times in body mass for each > time the double in length so a 2" fish is actually equal to eight 1" fish, > not just two... so either the tank has to get bigger or the maintenance > schedule has to increase to compensate for the increased bioload of the > growing fish. How many do you have and how big are they? > > There's a lot more we need to get into such as water testing, tank water > parameters and the bottled water parameters that would give us more info. > Do you have any kind of water tests? If yes, give us the test results from > those. Also, check Walmart.com and order either the Tetratest-Laborette > Master Test Kit or the API master test kit (either are under $20.00). As > you may know, they will deliver it to the store for free for your pickup > when it arrives. > > Once you have a decent master test kit and know what kind of catfish you > have, we can start checking your bottle water and tank water to figure > things out more definitively. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of tootsie2toes2 > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] foam on surface > > What could cause foam on water surface? I've never had this before and I've > had my tank for many years. I have bad tap water (well water), so I purchase > gallons of spring water. I had been purchasing the gallons from Jewel but > have switched to buying them at Walmart. I wonder if the new water is the > cause. That's the only thing I can think of. I have a bunch of albino > catfish and that's all. I clean the filter every week and replace about a > gallon or two of water every week from my 10-gal. tank. > > Thanks, > Judy > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081209-1, 12/09/2008 > Tested on: 12/9/2008 11:08:36 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34483	From: Jennie	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?

My platy sat on the bottom, tail curled and panted. I treated for parasites with Parasite Clear by Jungle. Bought it at Walmart. Jennie   --- On Tue, 12/16/08, amsterbaum <amsterbaum@...> wrote: From: amsterbaum <amsterbaum@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] What is wrong with my platy? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:06 AM Ich (4 weeks ago now) successfully treated, but she looks sicker instead of better. Eats with excellent appetite, but after eating or any exertion collapses on the gravel, panting. Spends most of her time bottom-sitting, even lying down with her tail curled up. Every so often swims up to the surface, but doesn't swim around the tank except at mealtime. Between the panting and surfacing, she appears starved for oxygen. Looks thin. Any ideas? Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34484	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?

Temp 78 degrees F Ammonia 0.25 ppm pH 8.0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0.5 ppm I'm off to do a PWC... Thanks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > > what are you water perimeters? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@> wrote: > > > > Ich (4 weeks ago now) successfully treated, but she looks sicker > > instead of better. Eats with excellent appetite, but after eating or > > any exertion collapses on the gravel, panting. Spends most of her time > > bottom-sitting, even lying down with her tail curled up. Every so > > often swims up to the surface, but doesn't swim around the tank except > > at mealtime. Between the panting and surfacing, she appears starved > > for oxygen. Looks thin. Any ideas? > > > > Thanks. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34485	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?

Interesting info! Allow me to rephrase my original question: There is a fry in my tank with two adults. It's been hiding here and there for over a week. How much longer until it's no longer in danger from its hungry mother? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > How long does it take for platy fry to grow to maturity? > > Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34486	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: foam on surface

You didn't give me any definite info like water parameters or even the number of Albino Corydoras (or the actual species since Corydoras is the genus) but since you said "quite a lot of them", that likely means your 10G tank is severely overstocked. Even if the smallest species, you probably shouldn't have more than 6-10 of them... and that's only if they are the Dwarf/Pygmy Corydoras which only grow to 1". Other Corydoras species grow to 4" to 5" (and possibly larger) so the larger species would not be suitable AT ALL for a 10G tank. Here is a page with some of the most common Corydoras species listed and you can look at the "Picture" links for each to see which one(s) you have. Let us know. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm If you don't see yours on the above page, then go to this page for a more complete list of the hundreds of species of Corydoras ... http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/index.php?genus_search_type=is&genus=co rydoras&species_search_type=is&species=&task=Search If the link breaks, either copy/paste it or go to http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/ and type in - corydoras - where it says "Genus is ___________" (corydoras) and click the search button. That will bring up a list of hundreds of individual species profiles where you would then have to look through all of them... or post a picture here or your own photo hosting webpage and maybe one of our members can identify it/them. For now, do a series of 25% PWC's/gravel vacuuming one every couple of hours to bring the water back into decent condition. Then start doing at least daily 25% PWC's to try and keep things up. You should probably do mild filter maintenance daily. See my blog article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for guidelines. What is wrong with your tap water that you've been using bottled water? While some bottled waters are OK, albeit expensive to use, others are downright bad to use for our fish. DO NOT use distilled water. Some of the so-called Spring Water's (many are just filtered tap water) are OK to use.... but since so many are just filtered tap water, it would be much less expensive for you to either filter your own or just use your own tap water with a basic dechlor, tap water conditioner product. API's 16 oz. bottle of Tap Water Conditioner costs around $5.00 and will treat over 2,000 gallons of water. Since you've had a big kill off of snails, possibly from the bottle water change, there is a good chance you have gone from a bottled water with a higher pH and harder water to a bottled water with a lower pH and softer water so if the snails weren't getting enough calcium from their diet or water, their shells would suffer and then they would suffer. You should get a much, much larger tank ASAP. Walmart.com sells a 55G kit (tank, hood, light, heater, filter) for $135.00. If you have a really sturdy table or kitchen countertop area, you could set it up there until you can buy or build a stand. They also have smaller tank its for lower prices but a 55G is a nice general purpose tank. Keeping fish that get too big for a 10G tank, in a 10G tank, will result in stunting, health problems and early deaths for the affected fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tootsie2toes2 Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: foam on surface Thanks for the reply. I have albino orydoras---quite a lot of them and that is why I'm going to a bigger tank. I may have figured out the reason for the foam. You say it is usually caused by high levels of dissolved proteins. I have been plagued for years with those small snails, and I have to get rid of sometimes hundreds every time I clean the filter and change water. I recently noticed I don't have so many snails, and many are always around the water line, like they are trying to leave, so I wonder if they are dying because of the water change. I switched bottled water from Jewel to Walmart spring water. That's when the foam started. Interesting. If that's it, I'll have to continue with the Walmart spring water and change the water more frequently. Thanks, Judy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Foam is usually caused by high levels dissolved proteins and other > DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) in the water. Some medicines/treatments will > cause foaming but you did not indicate that you've done any kind of > treatment. This likely means you need to increase the frequency of > your filter maintenance and 25% PWC's (partial water changes). If you are doing > them once a week now, increase them to twice a week. Are you also vacuuming > your gravel with each weekly tank maintenance? > > What kind of albino catfish do you have? "Catfish" is a simple name for a > very large category of fish with thousands of species... some staying > as small as 1" and others growing to small child-eating size of 6 feet long and > weighing hundreds of pounds. > > What worked for tank maintenance when the fish were small will not continue > to work as the fish grow. Most fish grow eight times in body mass for each > time the double in length so a 2" fish is actually equal to eight 1" fish, > not just two... so either the tank has to get bigger or the > maintenance schedule has to increase to compensate for the increased > bioload of the growing fish. How many do you have and how big are they? > > There's a lot more we need to get into such as water testing, tank > water parameters and the bottled water parameters that would give us > more info. > Do you have any kind of water tests? If yes, give us the test results from > those. Also, check Walmart.com and order either the > Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kit or the API master test kit (either > are under $20.00). As > you may know, they will deliver it to the store for free for your > pickup when it arrives. > > Once you have a decent master test kit and know what kind of catfish > you have, we can start checking your bottle water and tank water to > figure things out more definitively. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced above > listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of tootsie2toes2 > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] foam on surface > > What could cause foam on water surface? I've never had this before and I've > had my tank for many years. I have bad tap water (well water), so I purchase > gallons of spring water. I had been purchasing the gallons from Jewel but > have switched to buying them at Walmart. I wonder if the new water is the > cause. That's the only thing I can think of. I have a bunch of albino > catfish and that's all. I clean the filter every week and replace about a > gallon or two of water every week from my 10-gal. tank. > > Thanks, > Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34487	From: Thomas Funk	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?

Mine took a couple weeks to be big enough, though it still hid for a while even though the other fish weren't interested in it. On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 1:17 PM, amsterbaum <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > Interesting info! Allow me to rephrase my original question: > There is a fry in my tank with two adults. It's been hiding here and > there for over a week. How much longer until it's no longer in danger > from its hungry mother? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > > > How long does it take for platy fry to grow to maturity? > > > > Thanks. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34488	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?

OK. Something isn't right with the test results. Most nitrate test kits do not test down into the tenths so recheck the nitrate level and it appears you are using the API Master Test Kit and I know their color cards go from 0ppm to 5ppm and up. Is it 5.0ppm or 50ppm? Since you are showing some ammonia, which should ALWAYS be at 0.0ppm in a properly cycled tank, is there anything you have done recently that could have harmed your biological filtration (the nitrogen cycle)? Have you added more fish. Has the fish given birth and the fry are in the same tank? Did you overclean or trash your filter? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is wrong with my platy? Temp 78 degrees F Ammonia 0.25 ppm pH 8.0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0.5 ppm I'm off to do a PWC... Thanks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > > what are you water perimeters? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@> wrote: > > > > Ich (4 weeks ago now) successfully treated, but she looks sicker > > instead of better. Eats with excellent appetite, but after eating or > > any exertion collapses on the gravel, panting. Spends most of her time > > bottom-sitting, even lying down with her tail curled up. Every so > > often swims up to the surface, but doesn't swim around the tank except > > at mealtime. Between the panting and surfacing, she appears starved > > for oxygen. Looks thin. Any ideas? > > > > Thanks. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34489	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?

What are the water parameters, tank size, stocking level, etc. How old is the fish. Is it a female that has recently given birth, etc. It's difficult to diagnose a problem without knowing lots of info. I'm not sure what's in Parasite Clear but a better choice, IMO, would be PraziPro, now from Hikari, for a parasite treatment when gill flukes are suspected, which would be one cause of the exhausted, oxygen starved activity. There are other causes but more info is needed. A small bottle of PraziPro will treat a LOT of water and it's a one dose treatment so unless you are constantly buying new fish, there's no need to buy a larger bottle so get the smallest bottle for the best price. I bought the 4 oz. bottle from DrsFosterSmith.com a while back which was the best bargain for me... but even a 4 oz. bottle is much more than I have needed. It causes no issues for the fish or fry, can't be overdosed, etc., so it's a very good first treatment or even as a preventative for new fish. I use it for any new fish purchases while they are in quarantine just to make sure and eliminate any possible gill flukes (common in farm bred goldfish) and also other worm like internal/external parasites that it treats. It doesn't get all species of parasites (like Ich, etc.) so other meds may be in order once the correct parasite is determined. Oops... I take back some of the above. I just checked Jungle's website and it appears they are now adding Praziquantel (the main ingredient in PraziPro) to their Parasite Clear product. I still would use just Prazi as a first level treatment until more information is known, since some of the other chemicals are harder on the fish where Prazi doesn't affect them at all. http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=TB636 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is wrong with my platy? My platy sat on the bottom, tail curled and panted. I treated for parasites with Parasite Clear by Jungle. Bought it at Walmart. Jennie --- On Tue, 12/16/08, amsterbaum <amsterbaum@... <mailto:amsterbaum%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: amsterbaum <amsterbaum@... <mailto:amsterbaum%40yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is wrong with my platy? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:06 AM Ich (4 weeks ago now) successfully treated, but she looks sicker instead of better. Eats with excellent appetite, but after eating or any exertion collapses on the gravel, panting. Spends most of her time bottom-sitting, even lying down with her tail curled up. Every so often swims up to the surface, but doesn't swim around the tank except at mealtime. Between the panting and surfacing, she appears starved for oxygen. Looks thin. Any ideas? Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34490	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?

You're right, I misplaced the decimal point. Nitrate should be 5.0 ppm, using the API master kit. The other fish in the tank, also a platy, recently gave birth and there is one fry that I know of still in there. I have been doing daily PWCs to try to keep the ammonia down. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. Something isn't right with the test results. Most nitrate test kits do > not test down into the tenths so recheck the nitrate level and it appears > you are using the API Master Test Kit and I know their color cards go from > 0ppm to 5ppm and up. Is it 5.0ppm or 50ppm? > > Since you are showing some ammonia, which should ALWAYS be at 0.0ppm in a > properly cycled tank, is there anything you have done recently that could > have harmed your biological filtration (the nitrogen cycle)? Have you added > more fish. Has the fish given birth and the fry are in the same tank? Did > you overclean or trash your filter? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of amsterbaum > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is wrong with my platy? > > Temp 78 degrees F > Ammonia 0.25 ppm > pH 8.0 > nitrite 0 > nitrate 0.5 ppm > > I'm off to do a PWC... > > Thanks! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "greychildren" <greychildren@> > wrote: > > > > > > what are you water perimeters? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@> > wrote: > > > > > > Ich (4 weeks ago now) successfully treated, but she looks sicker > > > instead of better. Eats with excellent appetite, but after eating > or > > > any exertion collapses on the gravel, panting. Spends most of > her time > > > bottom-sitting, even lying down with her tail curled up. Every > so > > > often swims up to the surface, but doesn't swim around the tank > except > > > at mealtime. Between the panting and surfacing, she appears > starved > > > for oxygen. Looks thin. Any ideas? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34491	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?

You've seen the water parameters. Tank is an 8 gallon biocube with two platys (both female) and one fry living in it. The other (healthy) platy gave birth recently. The tank was set up several weeks before stocking, and the fish added just over four weeks ago. As it is a small tank, I'm trying to be very careful about doing adequate PWCs. Thanks for your help. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What are the water parameters, tank size, stocking level, etc. How old is > the fish. Is it a female that has recently given birth, etc. It's > difficult to diagnose a problem without knowing lots of info. > > I'm not sure what's in Parasite Clear but a better choice, IMO, would be > PraziPro, now from Hikari, for a parasite treatment when gill flukes are > suspected, which would be one cause of the exhausted, oxygen starved > activity. There are other causes but more info is needed. A small bottle > of PraziPro will treat a LOT of water and it's a one dose treatment so > unless you are constantly buying new fish, there's no need to buy a larger > bottle so get the smallest bottle for the best price. I bought the 4 oz. > bottle from DrsFosterSmith.com a while back which was the best bargain for > me... but even a 4 oz. bottle is much more than I have needed. It causes no > issues for the fish or fry, can't be overdosed, etc., so it's a very good > first treatment or even as a preventative for new fish. I use it for any > new fish purchases while they are in quarantine just to make sure and > eliminate any possible gill flukes (common in farm bred goldfish) and also > other worm like internal/external parasites that it treats. It doesn't get > all species of parasites (like Ich, etc.) so other meds may be in order once > the correct parasite is determined. > > Oops... I take back some of the above. I just checked Jungle's website and > it appears they are now adding Praziquantel (the main ingredient in > PraziPro) to their Parasite Clear product. I still would use just Prazi as > a first level treatment until more information is known, since some of the > other chemicals are harder on the fish where Prazi doesn't affect them at > all. http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=TB636 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jennie > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is wrong with my platy? > > My platy sat on the bottom, tail curled and panted. I treated for parasites > with Parasite Clear by Jungle. Bought it at Walmart. > > Jennie > > > --- On Tue, 12/16/08, amsterbaum <amsterbaum@... > <mailto:amsterbaum%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > From: amsterbaum <amsterbaum@... <mailto:amsterbaum%40yahoo.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is wrong with my platy? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:06 AM > > Ich (4 weeks ago now) successfully treated, but she looks sicker instead of > better. Eats with excellent appetite, but after eating or any exertion > collapses on the gravel, panting. Spends most of her time bottom- sitting, > even lying down with her tail curled up. Every so often swims up to the > surface, but doesn't swim around the tank except at mealtime. Between the > panting and surfacing, she appears starved for oxygen. Looks thin. Any > ideas? > > Thanks. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34492	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?

That bad advice, that you got, that is still given out by some stores... about setting up and running the tank for days or weeks ahead of time is BAD advice... unless it was also accompanied by an information sheet on how to fishless cycle the tank during this time period. Just filling a tank with water and running it for a few days or weeks does absolutely nothing to make it safe or ready for fish. I guess, if someone was going to choose to put the fish through the arduous cycling with fish process, then setting the tank up a day or two early and allowing the water to stabilize might be advisable but as always, cycling with fish should never be planned. If someone gets stuck with doing it because of getting bad advice or some other issue, that's one thing, but to set up a tank for a couple of weeks and not fishless cycle it during this period was just wasting energy. And now you see the results of putting the fish through the cycling process... usually sick and stressed fish. For an 8G tank, you should also go with male livebearers so you don't have the burden of lots of fry.. unless you have plans and room for more tanks. The males are usually the prettier of most fish species which is another reason to have males... especially when tank space is limited. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 7:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is wrong with my platy? You've seen the water parameters. Tank is an 8 gallon biocube with two platys (both female) and one fry living in it. The other (healthy) platy gave birth recently. The tank was set up several weeks before stocking, and the fish added just over four weeks ago. As it is a small tank, I'm trying to be very careful about doing adequate PWCs. Thanks for your help. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What are the water parameters, tank size, stocking level, etc. How old is > the fish. Is it a female that has recently given birth, etc. It's > difficult to diagnose a problem without knowing lots of info. > > I'm not sure what's in Parasite Clear but a better choice, IMO, would be > PraziPro, now from Hikari, for a parasite treatment when gill flukes are > suspected, which would be one cause of the exhausted, oxygen starved > activity. There are other causes but more info is needed. A small bottle > of PraziPro will treat a LOT of water and it's a one dose treatment so > unless you are constantly buying new fish, there's no need to buy a larger > bottle so get the smallest bottle for the best price. I bought the 4 oz. > bottle from DrsFosterSmith.com a while back which was the best bargain for > me... but even a 4 oz. bottle is much more than I have needed. It causes no > issues for the fish or fry, can't be overdosed, etc., so it's a very good > first treatment or even as a preventative for new fish. I use it for any > new fish purchases while they are in quarantine just to make sure and > eliminate any possible gill flukes (common in farm bred goldfish) and also > other worm like internal/external parasites that it treats. It doesn't get > all species of parasites (like Ich, etc.) so other meds may be in order once > the correct parasite is determined. > > Oops... I take back some of the above. I just checked Jungle's website and > it appears they are now adding Praziquantel (the main ingredient in > PraziPro) to their Parasite Clear product. I still would use just Prazi as > a first level treatment until more information is known, since some of the > other chemicals are harder on the fish where Prazi doesn't affect them at > all. http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=TB636 > <http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=TB636> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Jennie > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is wrong with my platy? > > My platy sat on the bottom, tail curled and panted. I treated for parasites > with Parasite Clear by Jungle. Bought it at Walmart. > > Jennie > > > --- On Tue, 12/16/08, amsterbaum <amsterbaum@... > <mailto:amsterbaum%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > From: amsterbaum <amsterbaum@... <mailto:amsterbaum%40yahoo.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is wrong with my platy? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:06 AM > > Ich (4 weeks ago now) successfully treated, but she looks sicker instead of > better. Eats with excellent appetite, but after eating or any exertion > collapses on the gravel, panting. Spends most of her time bottom- sitting, > even lying down with her tail curled up. Every so often swims up to the > surface, but doesn't swim around the tank except at mealtime. Between the > panting and surfacing, she appears starved for oxygen. Looks thin. Any > ideas? > > Thanks. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34493	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

What type of lighting is best for reading the API test? I can't find anything in the instruction book that answers this question. I've been doing the tests on my kitchen counter. Tonight, I was thinking that maybe the lemon yellow wall was reflecting onto the test tubes and throwing the results off. I picked up the tube and color card for high range pH and headed towards the family room, but before I even left the yellow kitchen, I passed under a ceiling light and the colors on the card and in the test tube changed. What I've been reading as about 7.5 for the pH, may be as high as 7.8. I hadn't dumped the tube for the nitrite test, yet, so I grabbed that and took it under the ceiling light. The card and test tube contents also changed some, but the color in the tube still matched the same location on the color card. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34494	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

For me, the "Daylight" fluorescent tubes in my kitchen worked best. I think any normal "white" light is better than a normal incandescent light that has more of a yellowish color to it. As you noticed, both the card and the tube changed color under the various lighting so they should still be discernable. The good news is that the only test that is critical that has a major color issue is the FW Ammonia card where 0.0ppm is Yellow, then 0.25ppm is slightly yellowish-lime-green colored. Once you get to 0.5ppm or 1.0ppm, the color is definitely more towards the lime-green and the higher more toxic levels will be green to dark green, rather than the yellow color. If your tank is cycled and you do a 25% PWC with chloramine treated water, you might notice a very slight increase in ammonia but even then it will be less than the 0.25ppm level so it will be as close to Yellow as you can get. Chloramine will release up to 0.5ppm of ammonia when it's broken down by the dechlor product... but since you are only doing a 25% PWC, that would result in a 0.125ppm level in the tank but since the water from the tap is being added back into the tank at a slow rate and the filter(s) are running, that level of ammonia should be immediately converted to nitrite/nitrate... so even if you test the water right after doing a 25% PWC with chloramine water, you should not get a legible ammonia result. The low pH FW color chart also has some close colors in the 6.6, 6.8 range (both light blue-green) but once again, if doing a 25% PWC, that level would only alter the pH by 0.05 which is an acceptable level. The FW Nitrate card, when comparing 20ppm and 40ppm (both red), are pretty close also but those levels aren't alarming either. The 10ppm is clearly orange and the 60ppm is clearly a deep red so as long as it's not up to that level and has some orange in it, it will be fine. With the Nitrite color card, the difference between safe level of 0.0ppm and the first warning level of 0.25ppm is great enough to not be confused. Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. http://colorvisiontesting.com/ http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results What type of lighting is best for reading the API test? I can't find anything in the instruction book that answers this question. I've been doing the tests on my kitchen counter. Tonight, I was thinking that maybe the lemon yellow wall was reflecting onto the test tubes and throwing the results off. I picked up the tube and color card for high range pH and headed towards the family room, but before I even left the yellow kitchen, I passed under a ceiling light and the colors on the card and in the test tube changed. What I've been reading as about 7.5 for the pH, may be as high as 7.8. I hadn't dumped the tube for the nitrite test, yet, so I grabbed that and took it under the ceiling light. The card and test tube contents also changed some, but the color in the tube still matched the same location on the color card. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34495	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm - PWC 11pm DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity--------------------- You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as of 12/10/08. While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced to the aquarium solution bottle. Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source of its cause. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles Fungus Clear): > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too much. > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food to Omega One pellets) > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably a sign of healing? > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related to the fishes' problem? > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from previous inhabitants. > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd do without you guys. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. If, by > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the surface > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass in > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > filter outlet. > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed up at > the surface against their preference as though their swim bladders > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice rather > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > internal infection or not. > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on their > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and is > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect something > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? Are > there any other external issues that have recently become apparent? > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you have > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as to > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to 55 > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as again > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced support) > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal between > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and Lenny > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, you > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) in re- > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an environment > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any reptile > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly elevated > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all the medical > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in the hospital > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be absorbed > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out by their > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which is > stressful to fish. > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the surface, > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter return. The > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All the agitation > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there is more gas > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. The up/down > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a tank > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they do not > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I guess if it was > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by removing all the > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a price. I've > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that used to have > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. Tell them > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to about $25.00. > ;-) > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that shouldn't > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic of the same > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure the front > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone removed that > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where the glass had > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 pounds of > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me know. I > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under Archives > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > ---My add-on----- > (inserted for continuity) > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus Clear. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of Jungle > Fungus Clear): > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the bottom. > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB also > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. And > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up every > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; Nitrate: > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist for > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need resealing, > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the plastic > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a fish > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see that > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this tank > falls through. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see how I > figured my salt levels. > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to see > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G of > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but only > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be removing > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of water > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite levels > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really dragging. > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear starts > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's only > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit won't > make that much of a difference. > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from his > broken hip over the summer. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I find > the > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > with > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- only > if to > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > that "Carol > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > even > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be quite > as well > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not see > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > recuperating. > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at 3.7 > tsp > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water changes > since. > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > reduced > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per gallon. > If > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this would > now > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > since last > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > wondering if > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. Maybe > you > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > your > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, especially > with > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these results > as > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which can > often > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > reagents may > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning Jungles' > Fungus > > Cure) > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still not > as > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > yesterday's > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it is. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > missed it > > in > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > water is > > not > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not as > > injurious > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While we > strive > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we can), > there is > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > that's > > still > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows your > tank > > is > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > frequent > > PWC's > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > straightened out > > you > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least ones > that the > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some to > their > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of their > food, > > and > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part of > their > > diet > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long-term if you > add > > it. > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add medications > to > > water > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing out > enough > > water > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > You're not > > too > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not make > that > > much > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum of 3 > tsp > > per > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's tolerable > > range. > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > even > > though > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them on > some > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > approaching, > > if > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > Cyprinidae > > are > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt toleration -- > they > > can > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > while > > there > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > medications > > (and > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain salt as > part > > of > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may add > > additional > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double-checking this > factor > > will > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > treatments. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > baseline > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to be > cycling > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that likes > to > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also asked > my dd > > and > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory that > was > > off. > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > saline > > with > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately 3.7tsp/G > in the > > tank. > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using one > of > > the > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > normal > > today, > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > moment. I > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > complications. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight now > for a > > > number of > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > eliminate this > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly did > to > > some > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's health > in > > their > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > reverse, > > it > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at least > to me > > > (unless > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks capacity > at 20 > > > gallons > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has come up > with > > 30 > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > you'd > > like to > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so that > we can > > get > > > a > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you had 90 > tsp > > of > > > salt > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that would > equate > > to 4 > > > 1/2 > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% of > salt in > > > their > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp per > > gallon > > > (not 3 > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate more > I > > felt it > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time (note: > this > > > measure > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do have > their > > > limits > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > Cichlids > > > seeming to > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, etc.) > > having > > > the > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) being > > somewhere in > > > the > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to establish > just > > what > > > your > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it could > act > > > adversely > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > advancement of > > the > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > affecting > > > your > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I know > this > > is > > > the > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the benefit > of > > other > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank is > done > > > gradually > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic plants > will > > > tolerate > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > Anacharis -- > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test readings > of > > several > > > days > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm and > both > > your > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating your > cycle > > > suddenly > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next day > your > > > nitrite > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and your > > nitrate > > > was > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 ppm). > A > > > discrepency > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous test > result > > (or > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the issue, > I'd > > suggest > > > you > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > disease. > > > Those > > > > medications would include any of the following: > A.P.I.'s > > Furan > > > II, > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus Clear > Tank > > > Buddies -- > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as their > main > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > Ich/Malachite > > > Green > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > all, > > Fungal > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > somewhat > > weak > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with Lucille > and > > > generally > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't watching > the > > what we > > > > were doing. > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's hasn't > improved > > at > > > all > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side and > seems > > to be > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > base of > > her > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > because CB > > seems > > > a > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food they're > > getting I > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save your > money > > for > > > the > > > > bigger > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, lowering > the > > water a > > > > little (or > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall to > create > > > enough > > > > surface > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas exchange. > That > > and > > > live > > > > plants are > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the CO2 > levels > > > down. > > > > Cooler > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. Hopefully > Raven > > will > > > > start to turn > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and I > didn't > > do a > > > PWC > > > > yesterday) > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the water > level > > so > > > I > > > > can see > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the tank > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > changes. I'll > > > look > > > > into an > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the budget > right > > now. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia but > then > > > activated > > > > carbon will > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > Carbon > > also > > > does > > > > not remove > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is probably > just > > an A- > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink in > my old > > home > > > and > > > > I would > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my Betta > tank > > but it > > > > simply isn't > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount of > water > > that > > > > you'll be > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I used > it on > > my > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set up > to dose > > 1G > > > or > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > precise > > syringe > > > to > > > > worry about > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the Pur > filter > > for > > > > simplicity... > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water volumes. > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing 25% > PWC's > > on a > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are the > worst > > in > > > the > > > > world, I > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta filter > for > > the > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2752208 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > productId=2754035 > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2754035> > > > > would last > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin Tap > Water > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a 55G > tank > > and > > > > changing 25% > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you over > 3 > > > years ... > > > > probably much > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon filters > on > > the > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and treats > more > > > water > > > > but it's > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've been > > getting > > > the > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would order it > > online > > > from > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't worth > paying > > more > > > for > > > > shipping > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your tap > water > > > without > > > > using the > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you will > use > > in > > > the > > > > future. Test > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since the > dechlor > > will > > > > break the > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a little. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the water > goes > > > through > > > > a Brita > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other nasty > things > > (I'll > > > > search down > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). The > zero > > > reading > > > > is right > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through the > > filter. I > > > > don't add > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > straight > > tap > > > water > > > > and > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if the > extra > > > aeration > > > > helps Raven > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your dechlor > > product > > > (which > > > > one do you > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before adding > the > > dechlor? > > > If > > > > you didn't > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and did > see > > the > > > 0.5ppm > > > > after > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies that > your > > tap > > > > water is > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical made > by > > binding > > > > chlorine and > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > alarming, > > > especially > > > > when cycling > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > fully > > cycled > > > > tank, it will > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is easily > > handled by > > > the > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > system > > but > > > also > > > > in other > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough as > the > > sickness > > > > itself. The > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > osmoregulatory > > > balance > > > > with the > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also going > > through > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape by > doing > > your > > > > testing and > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > Goldfish > > needs > > > lots > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > This can be > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by lowering > the > > water > > > level > > > > a little.. > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > water > > causes > > > more > > > > surface > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > at the > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 to > the > > water. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make it > and > > then > > > > you'll have to > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to > articles > > > referenced > > > > above > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > sign. She > > is > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh food. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the bug- > eyes) > > is > > > > hiding under the > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was before I > > started > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very tired > and > > wants > > > to > > > > sit on the > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white patches > are > > slowly > > > > disappearing. > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? Salt > is > > still > > > about > > > > 25T in a > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the tank > > yesterday > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > 0ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille turn > out to > > be a > > > > male, I guess > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > teaspoons > > per > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > goldfish... > > > and > > > > it's > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > adding 3 > > > teaspoons > > > > per gallon > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and this > will > > slowly > > > > bring the > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. Oops.. > I > > started > > > > typing my > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > already > > started > > > > doing this.. > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > water > > just to > > > > make sure your > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the 15 > > teaspoons > > > to > > > > every five > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many people > use > > those > > > 5G > > > > buckets for > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G mark in > a 5G > > > bucket, > > > > fill it to > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > salt, > > etc.) > > > and > > > > then slowly > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning water > out, use > > the > > > > same mark to > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for the > 2.5G > > or 3G > > > > mark is you > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top or > you'll > > > spill a > > > > lot when > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure your > tank, > > L" x > > > W" x > > > > H" and > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it out > > yourself. > > > For > > > > your > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. gallons on > any > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is the > formula. > > L" > > > x W" > > > > x H" = > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > adverse > > effect > > > on the > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled anyhow > so it > > > > probably just > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the fish > > healthy > > > was > > > > more > > > > > important than worrying about the N-bacteria right > now. > > > Sometimes > > > > we have to > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > completely > > kills > > > off > > > > all of the > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing > better (I > > > always > > > > hate saying > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) but > every > > once > > > in a > > > > while, we > > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to save. > > Goldfish > > > have a > > > > HUGE will > > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some > really bad > > > > conditions > > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet store > that > > > doesn't > > > > give proper > > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, > cycling, > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank on > his > > sleigh > > > for > > > > you... and > > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her name. > It's > > > difficult > > > > to sex > > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females are > > harder to > > > > tell but males > > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on their > gill > > covers > > > and > > > > the leading > > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see these > for the > > > first > > > > time and > > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the little > white > > bumps > > > just > > > > on the > > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral fins, > that > > means > > > you > > > > have a > > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll just > have to > > > rename > > > > him to > > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all of > the > > fish > > > to > > > > have found > > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so > you're OK > > > with > > > > them. LOL > > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding > stars/tubercles so > > > you'll > > > > know what to > > > > > look for. > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these > goldfish) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so it > won't > > be > > > 1.0 > > > > again > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water I > was > > putting > > > in. > > > > I just > > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was > thinking > > it > > > didn't > > > > feel like > > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 is > 7.5). > > > Today > > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34496	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

I'm definitely not colorblind. I got all the numbers and shaped on the test you linked to and I can get a 10 or better on the FM Hue test: http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 The Daylight fluorescent light is exactly what I've been using. The pH cards have always given me a problem reading the results, though. The low pH always seems pegged at the 7.6, and the high range looks to me like the mustard yellow of 7.4. But when I stepped under a regular 100 watt light, both the tube and the 7.8 reading on the card turned a definite peachy color. It's really weird. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results For me, the "Daylight" fluorescent tubes in my kitchen worked best. I think any normal "white" light is better than a normal incandescent light that has more of a yellowish color to it. As you noticed, both the card and the tube changed color under the various lighting so they should still be discernable. The good news is that the only test that is critical that has a major color issue is the FW Ammonia card where 0.0ppm is Yellow, then 0.25ppm is slightly yellowish-lime-green colored. Once you get to 0.5ppm or 1.0ppm, the color is definitely more towards the lime-green and the higher more toxic levels will be green to dark green, rather than the yellow color. If your tank is cycled and you do a 25% PWC with chloramine treated water, you might notice a very slight increase in ammonia but even then it will be less than the 0.25ppm level so it will be as close to Yellow as you can get. Chloramine will release up to 0.5ppm of ammonia when it's broken down by the dechlor product... but since you are only doing a 25% PWC, that would result in a 0.125ppm level in the tank but since the water from the tap is being added back into the tank at a slow rate and the filter(s) are running, that level of ammonia should be immediately converted to nitrite/nitrate... so even if you test the water right after doing a 25% PWC with chloramine water, you should not get a legible ammonia result. The low pH FW color chart also has some close colors in the 6.6, 6.8 range (both light blue-green) but once again, if doing a 25% PWC, that level would only alter the pH by 0.05 which is an acceptable level. The FW Nitrate card, when comparing 20ppm and 40ppm (both red), are pretty close also but those levels aren't alarming either. The 10ppm is clearly orange and the 60ppm is clearly a deep red so as long as it's not up to that level and has some orange in it, it will be fine. With the Nitrite color card, the difference between safe level of 0.0ppm and the first warning level of 0.25ppm is great enough to not be confused. Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. http://colorvisiontesting.com/ http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results What type of lighting is best for reading the API test? I can't find anything in the instruction book that answers this question. I've been doing the tests on my kitchen counter. Tonight, I was thinking that maybe the lemon yellow wall was reflecting onto the test tubes and throwing the results off. I picked up the tube and color card for high range pH and headed towards the family room, but before I even left the yellow kitchen, I passed under a ceiling light and the colors on the card and in the test tube changed. What I've been reading as about 7.5 for the pH, may be as high as 7.8. I hadn't dumped the tube for the nitrite test, yet, so I grabbed that and took it under the ceiling light. The card and test tube contents also changed some, but the color in the tube still matched the same location on the color card. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34497	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

Well I beat your 10. I got a 65. LOL... Just kidding. I know that lower is better but it sounded good for a second. I really thought I was perfect but knew I must not have been since I can't pass all of the other color blind tests. That's a nice test too. I added it to my favorites folder on color-blind testing. Of course, I could blame it on just getting up and being on my first cup of coffee. I saw where the worst score for my age range was over 1,000 so I really didn't do as badly as I thought I would... of course, the person who got over 1,000 probably did a little too much partying on Bourbon Street prior to taking the test. I wish I could blame my score on Bourbon Street but I was a good boy last night... besides, there wasn't much going on in the French Quarter last night anyhow. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results I'm definitely not colorblind. I got all the numbers and shaped on the test you linked to and I can get a 10 or better on the FM Hue test: http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 <http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77> The Daylight fluorescent light is exactly what I've been using. The pH cards have always given me a problem reading the results, though. The low pH always seems pegged at the 7.6, and the high range looks to me like the mustard yellow of 7.4. But when I stepped under a regular 100 watt light, both the tube and the 7.8 reading on the card turned a definite peachy color. It's really weird. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results For me, the "Daylight" fluorescent tubes in my kitchen worked best. I think any normal "white" light is better than a normal incandescent light that has more of a yellowish color to it. As you noticed, both the card and the tube changed color under the various lighting so they should still be discernable. The good news is that the only test that is critical that has a major color issue is the FW Ammonia card where 0.0ppm is Yellow, then 0.25ppm is slightly yellowish-lime-green colored. Once you get to 0.5ppm or 1.0ppm, the color is definitely more towards the lime-green and the higher more toxic levels will be green to dark green, rather than the yellow color. If your tank is cycled and you do a 25% PWC with chloramine treated water, you might notice a very slight increase in ammonia but even then it will be less than the 0.25ppm level so it will be as close to Yellow as you can get. Chloramine will release up to 0.5ppm of ammonia when it's broken down by the dechlor product... but since you are only doing a 25% PWC, that would result in a 0.125ppm level in the tank but since the water from the tap is being added back into the tank at a slow rate and the filter(s) are running, that level of ammonia should be immediately converted to nitrite/nitrate... so even if you test the water right after doing a 25% PWC with chloramine water, you should not get a legible ammonia result. The low pH FW color chart also has some close colors in the 6.6, 6.8 range (both light blue-green) but once again, if doing a 25% PWC, that level would only alter the pH by 0.05 which is an acceptable level. The FW Nitrate card, when comparing 20ppm and 40ppm (both red), are pretty close also but those levels aren't alarming either. The 10ppm is clearly orange and the 60ppm is clearly a deep red so as long as it's not up to that level and has some orange in it, it will be fine. With the Nitrite color card, the difference between safe level of 0.0ppm and the first warning level of 0.25ppm is great enough to not be confused. Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. http://colorvisiontesting.com/ <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results What type of lighting is best for reading the API test? I can't find anything in the instruction book that answers this question. I've been doing the tests on my kitchen counter. Tonight, I was thinking that maybe the lemon yellow wall was reflecting onto the test tubes and throwing the results off. I picked up the tube and color card for high range pH and headed towards the family room, but before I even left the yellow kitchen, I passed under a ceiling light and the colors on the card and in the test tube changed. What I've been reading as about 7.5 for the pH, may be as high as 7.8. I hadn't dumped the tube for the nitrite test, yet, so I grabbed that and took it under the ceiling light. The card and test tube contents also changed some, but the color in the tube still matched the same location on the color card. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34498	From: greychildren	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Platy Fry - how long to maturity?

from personal experience i learn that as long as the fry is bigger than the parents and Oder occupants in the tank mouth he wont get eaten. i hope this answers your question. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@...> wrote: > > Interesting info! Allow me to rephrase my original question: > There is a fry in my tank with two adults. It's been hiding here and > there for over a week. How much longer until it's no longer in danger > from its hungry mother? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amsterbaum" <amsterbaum@> wrote: > > > > How long does it take for platy fry to grow to maturity? > > > > Thanks. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34499	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

Hair seems to grow where it should not, and it is falling out where it should be. Seem to have attention span issues at times,(senior moments). Gain weight, aches and pains. Going deaf enough I have the TV turned up way too high. But Woo Hoo I am not color blind! :o) On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 6:08 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Well I beat your 10. I got a 65. LOL... Just kidding. I know that lower > is better but it sounded good for a second. I really thought I was perfect > but knew I must not have been since I can't pass all of the other color > blind tests. That's a nice test too. I added it to my favorites folder on > color-blind testing. Of course, I could blame it on just getting up and > being on my first cup of coffee. > > I saw where the worst score for my age range was over 1,000 so I really > didn't do as badly as I thought I would... of course, the person who got > over 1,000 probably did a little too much partying on Bourbon Street prior > to taking the test. I wish I could blame my score on Bourbon Street but I > was a good boy last night... besides, there wasn't much going on in the > French Quarter last night anyhow. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results > > I'm definitely not colorblind. I got all the numbers and shaped on the test > you linked to and I can get a 10 or better on the FM Hue test: > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 > <http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77> > > The Daylight fluorescent light is exactly what I've been using. The pH > cards > have always given me a problem reading the results, though. The low pH > always seems pegged at the 7.6, and the high range looks to me like the > mustard yellow of 7.4. But when I stepped under a regular 100 watt light, > both the tube and the 7.8 reading on the card turned a definite peachy > color. It's really weird. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:43 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results > > For me, the "Daylight" fluorescent tubes in my kitchen worked best. I think > any normal "white" light is better than a normal incandescent light that > has > more of a yellowish color to it. As you noticed, both the card and the tube > changed color under the various lighting so they should still be > discernable. > > The good news is that the only test that is critical that has a major color > issue is the FW Ammonia card where 0.0ppm is Yellow, then 0.25ppm is > slightly yellowish-lime-green colored. Once you get to 0.5ppm or 1.0ppm, > the > color is definitely more towards the lime-green and the higher more toxic > levels will be green to dark green, rather than the yellow color. If your > tank is cycled and you do a 25% PWC with chloramine treated water, you > might > notice a very slight increase in ammonia but even then it will be less than > the 0.25ppm level so it will be as close to Yellow as you can get. > Chloramine will release up to 0.5ppm of ammonia when it's broken down by > the > dechlor product... but since you are only doing a 25% PWC, that would > result > in a 0.125ppm level in the tank but since the water from the tap is being > added back into the tank at a slow rate and the filter(s) are running, that > level of ammonia should be immediately converted to nitrite/nitrate... so > even if you test the water right after doing a 25% PWC with chloramine > water, you should not get a legible ammonia result. > > The low pH FW color chart also has some close colors in the 6.6, 6.8 range > (both light blue-green) but once again, if doing a 25% PWC, that level > would > only alter the pH by 0.05 which is an acceptable level. > > The FW Nitrate card, when comparing 20ppm and 40ppm (both red), are pretty > close also but those levels aren't alarming either. The 10ppm is clearly > orange and the 60ppm is clearly a deep red so as long as it's not up to > that > level and has some orange in it, it will be fine. > > With the Nitrite color card, the difference between safe level of 0.0ppm > and > the first warning level of 0.25ppm is great enough to not be confused. > > Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's > always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary > online > tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. > > http://colorvisiontesting.com/ <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> > http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp > <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>< > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> ] > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results > > What type of lighting is best for reading the API test? I can't find > anything in the instruction book that answers this question. > > I've been doing the tests on my kitchen counter. Tonight, I was thinking > that maybe the lemon yellow wall was reflecting onto the test tubes and > throwing the results off. I picked up the tube and color card for high > range > pH and headed towards the family room, but before I even left the yellow > kitchen, I passed under a ceiling light and the colors on the card and in > the test tube changed. What I've been reading as about 7.5 for the pH, may > be as high as 7.8. I hadn't dumped the tube for the nitrite test, yet, so I > grabbed that and took it under the ceiling light. The card and test tube > contents also changed some, but the color in the tube still matched the > same > location on the color card. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34500	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

API test results are very imprecise. Only experience taught me the best lighting to use, and they make sense mostly in terms of what they normally look like and what they look like if there's a problem. Meaning they give good comparative information but not very precise information for communicating with others. Frankly I usually hold it up to the light and/or stick a piece of white paper or one of the cards behind it, but not right behind it. The other problem is that the color shades are often very close to each other; particularly with the ammonia, high-end ph, and phosphate tests. So when I give those numbers I give ranges. Over time I know when my ammonia levels are rising and falling, and I also know if my ammonia level is absolutely 0, which occasionally happens - it produces a true buttercup yellow. Usually it has a greenish tint. If you do a google image search for those cards, you will quickly learn that they do not photograph true and the shades aer often outright reversed in the photos! Other test brands are easier to read, adn I tried one, but the results weren't as accurate. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results What type of lighting is best for reading the API test? I can't find anything in the instruction book that answers this question. I've been doing the tests on my kitchen counter. Tonight, I was thinking that maybe the lemon yellow wall was reflecting onto the test tubes and throwing the results off. I picked up the tube and color card for high range pH and headed towards the family room, but before I even left the yellow kitchen, I passed under a ceiling light and the colors on the card and in the test tube changed. What I've been reading as about 7.5 for the pH, may be as high as 7.8. I hadn't dumped the tube for the nitrite test, yet, so I grabbed that and took it under the ceiling light. The card and test tube contents also changed some, but the color in the tube still matched the same location on the color card. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34501	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

Lenny always says this, I did double check my color vision, and it isn't a problem with color vision. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. http://colorvisiontesting.com/ http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34502	From: amsterbaum	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: What is wrong with my platy?

Thanks, lesson learned. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > That bad advice, that you got, that is still given out by some stores... > about setting up and running the tank for days or weeks ahead of time is BAD > advice... unless it was also accompanied by an information sheet on how to > fishless cycle the tank during this time period. > > Just filling a tank with water and running it for a few days or weeks does > absolutely nothing to make it safe or ready for fish. I guess, if someone > was going to choose to put the fish through the arduous cycling with fish > process, then setting the tank up a day or two early and allowing the water > to stabilize might be advisable but as always, cycling with fish should > never be planned. If someone gets stuck with doing it because of getting > bad advice or some other issue, that's one thing, but to set up a tank for a > couple of weeks and not fishless cycle it during this period was just > wasting energy. And now you see the results of putting the fish through the > cycling process... usually sick and stressed fish. > > For an 8G tank, you should also go with male livebearers so you don't have > the burden of lots of fry.. unless you have plans and room for more tanks. > The males are usually the prettier of most fish species which is another > reason to have males... especially when tank space is limited. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of amsterbaum > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 7:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is wrong with my platy? > > You've seen the water parameters. Tank is an 8 gallon biocube with two > platys (both female) and one fry living in it. The other > (healthy) platy gave birth recently. The tank was set up several weeks > before stocking, and the fish added just over four weeks ago. > As it is a small tank, I'm trying to be very careful about doing adequate > PWCs. Thanks for your help. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > What are the water parameters, tank size, stocking level, etc. How > old is > > the fish. Is it a female that has recently given birth, etc. It's > > difficult to diagnose a problem without knowing lots of info. > > > > I'm not sure what's in Parasite Clear but a better choice, IMO, > would be > > PraziPro, now from Hikari, for a parasite treatment when gill > flukes are > > suspected, which would be one cause of the exhausted, oxygen starved > > activity. There are other causes but more info is needed. A small > bottle > > of PraziPro will treat a LOT of water and it's a one dose treatment > so > > unless you are constantly buying new fish, there's no need to buy a > larger > > bottle so get the smallest bottle for the best price. I bought the > 4 oz. > > bottle from DrsFosterSmith.com a while back which was the best > bargain for > > me... but even a 4 oz. bottle is much more than I have needed. It > causes no > > issues for the fish or fry, can't be overdosed, etc., so it's a > very good > > first treatment or even as a preventative for new fish. I use it > for any > > new fish purchases while they are in quarantine just to make sure > and > > eliminate any possible gill flukes (common in farm bred goldfish) > and also > > other worm like internal/external parasites that it treats. It > doesn't get > > all species of parasites (like Ich, etc.) so other meds may be in > order once > > the correct parasite is determined. > > > > Oops... I take back some of the above. I just checked Jungle's > website and > > it appears they are now adding Praziquantel (the main ingredient in > > PraziPro) to their Parasite Clear product. I still would use just > Prazi as > > a first level treatment until more information is known, since some > of the > > other chemicals are harder on the fish where Prazi doesn't affect > them at > > all. http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=TB636 > > <http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=TB636> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Jennie > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is wrong with my platy? > > > > My platy sat on the bottom, tail curled and panted. I treated for > parasites > > with Parasite Clear by Jungle. Bought it at Walmart. > > > > Jennie > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/16/08, amsterbaum <amsterbaum@ > > <mailto:amsterbaum%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > From: amsterbaum <amsterbaum@ <mailto:amsterbaum%40yahoo.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is wrong with my platy? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:06 AM > > > > Ich (4 weeks ago now) successfully treated, but she looks sicker > instead of > > better. Eats with excellent appetite, but after eating or any > exertion > > collapses on the gravel, panting. Spends most of her time bottom- > sitting, > > even lying down with her tail curled up. Every so often swims up to > the > > surface, but doesn't swim around the tank except at mealtime. > Between the > > panting and surfacing, she appears starved for oxygen. Looks thin. > Any > > ideas? > > > > Thanks. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34503	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia > but > > then > > > > activated > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > > Carbon > > > also > > > > does > > > > > not remove > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > probably > > just > > > an A- > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink > in > > my old > > > home > > > > and > > > > > I would > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my > Betta > > tank > > > but it > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount > of > > water > > > that > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I > used > > it on > > > my > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set > up > > to dose > > > 1G > > > > or > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > > precise > > > syringe > > > > to > > > > > worry about > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the > Pur > > filter > > > for > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing > 25% > > PWC's > > > on a > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are > the > > worst > > > in > > > > the > > > > > world, I > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta > filter > > for > > > the > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin > Tap > > Water > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a > 55G > > tank > > > and > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you > over > > 3 > > > > years ... > > > > > probably much > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon > filters > > on > > > the > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and > treats > > more > > > > water > > > > > but it's > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've > been > > > getting > > > > the > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would > order it > > > online > > > > from > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't > worth > > paying > > > more > > > > for > > > > > shipping > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your > tap > > water > > > > without > > > > > using the > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you > will > > use > > > in > > > > the > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since > the > > dechlor > > > will > > > > > break the > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the > water > > goes > > > > through > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other > nasty > > things > > > (I'll > > > > > search down > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). > The > > zero > > > > reading > > > > > is right > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through > the > > > filter. I > > > > > don't add > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > > straight > > > tap > > > > water > > > > > and > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if > the > > extra > > > > aeration > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your > dechlor > > > product > > > > (which > > > > > one do you > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > adding > > the > > > dechlor? > > > > If > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and > did > > see > > > the > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > after > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies > that > > your > > > tap > > > > > water is > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical > made > > by > > > binding > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > > alarming, > > > > especially > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > > fully > > > cycled > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is > easily > > > handled by > > > > the > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > > system > > > but > > > > also > > > > > in other > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough > as > > the > > > sickness > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > osmoregulatory > > > > balance > > > > > with the > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also > going > > > through > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape > by > > doing > > > your > > > > > testing and > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > > Goldfish > > > needs > > > > lots > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > This can be > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > lowering > > the > > > water > > > > level > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > > water > > > causes > > > > more > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 > to > > the > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make > it > > and > > > then > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > > sign. She > > > is > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the > bug- > > eyes) > > > is > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was > before I > > > started > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very > tired > > and > > > wants > > > > to > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > patches > > are > > > slowly > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? > Salt > > is > > > still > > > > about > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the > tank > > > yesterday > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille > turn > > out to > > > be a > > > > > male, I guess > > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > > teaspoons > > > per > > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > > goldfish... > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > > adding 3 > > > > teaspoons > > > > > per gallon > > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and > this > > will > > > slowly > > > > > bring the > > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. > Oops.. > > I > > > started > > > > > typing my > > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > > already > > > started > > > > > doing this.. > > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > > water > > > just to > > > > > make sure your > > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the > 15 > > > teaspoons > > > > to > > > > > every five > > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many > people > > use > > > those > > > > 5G > > > > > buckets for > > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G > mark in > > a 5G > > > > bucket, > > > > > fill it to > > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > > salt, > > > etc.) > > > > and > > > > > then slowly > > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning > water > > out, use > > > the > > > > > same mark to > > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for > the > > 2.5G > > > or 3G > > > > > mark is you > > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top > or > > you'll > > > > spill a > > > > > lot when > > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure > your > > tank, > > > L" x > > > > W" x > > > > > H" and > > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it > out > > > yourself. > > > > For > > > > > your > > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. > gallons on > > any > > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is > the > > formula. > > > L" > > > > x W" > > > > > x H" = > > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. > Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > > adverse > > > effect > > > > on the > > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled > anyhow > > so it > > > > > probably just > > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the > fish > > > healthy > > > > was > > > > > more > > > > > > important than worrying about the N- bacteria > right > > now. > > > > Sometimes > > > > > we have to > > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > > completely > > > kills > > > > off > > > > > all of the > > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part o<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34504	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia > but > > then > > > > activated > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > > Carbon > > > also > > > > does > > > > > not remove > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > probably > > just > > > an A- > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink > in > > my old > > > home > > > > and > > > > > I would > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my > Betta > > tank > > > but it > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount > of > > water > > > that > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I > used > > it on > > > my > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set > up > > to dose > > > 1G > > > > or > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > > precise > > > syringe > > > > to > > > > > worry about > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the > Pur > > filter > > > for > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing > 25% > > PWC's > > > on a > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are > the > > worst > > > in > > > > the > > > > > world, I > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta > filter > > for > > > the > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin > Tap > > Water > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a > 55G > > tank > > > and > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you > over > > 3 > > > > years ... > > > > > probably much > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon > filters > > on > > > the > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and > treats > > more > > > > water > > > > > but it's > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've > been > > > getting > > > > the > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would > order it > > > online > > > > from > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't > worth > > paying > > > more > > > > for > > > > > shipping > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your > tap > > water > > > > without > > > > > using the > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you > will > > use > > > in > > > > the > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since > the > > dechlor > > > will > > > > > break the > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the > water > > goes > > > > through > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other > nasty > > things > > > (I'll > > > > > search down > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). > The > > zero > > > > reading > > > > > is right > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through > the > > > filter. I > > > > > don't add > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > > straight > > > tap > > > > water > > > > > and > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if > the > > extra > > > > aeration > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your > dechlor > > > product > > > > (which > > > > > one do you > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > adding > > the > > > dechlor? > > > > If > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and > did > > see > > > the > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > after > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies > that > > your > > > tap > > > > > water is > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical > made > > by > > > binding > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > > alarming, > > > > especially > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > > fully > > > cycled > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is > easily > > > handled by > > > > the > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > > system > > > but > > > > also > > > > > in other > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough > as > > the > > > sickness > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > osmoregulatory > > > > balance > > > > > with the > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also > going > > > through > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape > by > > doing > > > your > > > > > testing and > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > > Goldfish > > > needs > > > > lots > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > This can be > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > lowering > > the > > > water > > > > level > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > > water > > > causes > > > > more > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 > to > > the > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make > it > > and > > > then > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > > sign. She > > > is > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the > bug- > > eyes) > > > is > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was > before I > > > started > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very > tired > > and > > > wants > > > > to > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > patches > > are > > > slowly > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? > Salt > > is > > > still > > > > about > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the > tank > > > yesterday > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille > turn > > out to > > > be a > > > > > male, I guess > > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > > teaspoons > > > per > > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > > goldfish... > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > > adding 3 > > > > teaspoons > > > > > per gallon > > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and > this > > will > > > slowly > > > > > bring the > > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. > Oops.. > > I > > > started > > > > > typing my > > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > > already > > > started > > > > > doing this.. > > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > > water > > > just to > > > > > make sure your > > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the > 15 > > > teaspoons > > > > to > > > > > every five > > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many > people > > use > > > those > > > > 5G > > > > > buckets for > > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G > mark in > > a 5G > > > > bucket, > > > > > fill it to > > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > > salt, > > > etc.) > > > > and > > > > > then slowly > > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning > water > > out, use > > > the > > > > > same mark to > > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for > the > > 2.5G > > > or 3G > > > > > mark is you > > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top > or > > you'll > > > > spill a > > > > > lot when > > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure > your > > tank, > > > L" x > > > > W" x > > > > > H" and > > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it > out > > > yourself. > > > > For > > > > > your > > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. > gallons on > > any > > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is > the > > formula. > > > L" > > > > x W" > > > > > x H" = > > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. > Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > > adverse > > > effect > > > > on the > > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled > anyhow > > so it > > > > > probably just > > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the > fish > > > healthy > > > > was > > > > > more > > > > > > important than worrying about the N- bacteria > right > > now. > > > > Sometimes > > > > > we have to > > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > > completely > > > kills > > > > off > > > > > all of the > > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part o<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34505	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: tap water vs. bottled

I've been purchasing bottled spring water for years for my fish tank. Someone here suggested I use my tap water. I don't drink my tap water, since I have a well and it smells bad. There are also iron deposits and sometimes a black grit will settle from it. Obviously, I don't need a chlorine dissipator, but is there any way I could treat this hard tap water so I could use it for my fish tank? Purchasing and lugging the water is expensive and work.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34506	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Testing for Internal Parasites

I'm just curious. I used to be a vet tech back in the late 70's and early 80's, and I ran my fair share of fecal exams. When I became a stay-at-home mom, I bought my own microscope and testing supplies and I still run fecal tests on my own animals. If (and that's a big IF), if I could collect enough fresh feces from the goldfish, could I use the same salt water floatation method to check for parasite eggs? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34507	From: bill1433	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: tap water vs. bottled

Yes, there is.  The product is called a Reverse Osmosis Water Filter.  They are not very cheap and do not have a high water flow rate but you could drink the water and so could your fish.  In most cases they must be hooked up in-line to your well water system by a plumber.   Bill --- On Wed, 12/17/08, tootsie2toes2 <tootsie2toes2@...> wrote: From: tootsie2toes2 <tootsie2toes2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] tap water vs. bottled To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 3:16 PM I've been purchasing bottled spring water for years for my fish tank. Someone here suggested I use my tap water. I don't drink my tap water, since I have a well and it smells bad. There are also iron deposits and sometimes a black grit will settle from it. Obviously, I don't need a chlorine dissipator, but is there any way I could treat this hard tap water so I could use it for my fish tank? Purchasing and lugging the water is expensive and work. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34508	From: shadow_eyeonx	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !!

So you've been having problems since at least October. How big are the two fish? Is there any substrate from the 20 in the 55? I would highly recommend NOT sharing filter and substrate media between the two tanks. You might be introducing the problem right into the 55. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Remember that if you have a filter system running on an inhabited tank, and > that filter is "cycled", if you move it to a tank with no fish, the good > nitrifying bacteria (nitrogen cycle bacteria) will die off with no > ammonia/nitrites to eat. DO NOT move the cycled filter to the new tank > until you also move the fish. > > 68F is OK for goldfish as long as both tanks have the same temp when you > move the goldfish. > > The white poop... was it actually white and was it stringy or was it > off-white, as in the color of the food you fed them? If it was white and > stringy, that is indicative of internal parasitic or digestive bacterial > issues.. more likely parasitic. This is caused by the parasites eating the > food and getting the nourishment rather than the goldfish. DO NOT PANIC > though. Just keep an eye on them to see which fish has the stringy white > poop.. if any. If it's the normal fuller poop, then disregard this > paragraph for now. > > Goldfish poop should come out the same color as whatever they ate... as you > saw when feeding them pea "meat", the poop came out green. They do not have > much of a stomach so anything they eat is quickly processed and passed > through their system. This is why they are perpetually hungry and why I > feed mine a few times a day but only small amounts.. and quality foods.. so > hopefully the food they eat will stay in them a little longer so they can > absorb the nutrients. > > If the change in color is not part of any kind of external fungus or injury, > then don't be overly concerned. Calico goldfish and even solid colored > goldfish will change colors many times throughout their lives. It's just > part of their genetics from the inbreeding that has taken place to create > the man-made fancy goldfish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of olesonjo > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 12:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: !!Trouble with goldfish !! > > Thanks everyone for all the comments and advice. I am reading everything. I > truly appreciate your knowledge, commitment, and willingness to help. > > The fish ( two fancy goldfish, one male, black and gold Moor ( he was > affected the most), one calico female ) are doing much better today. I will > get some means of testing the water today, and go over all options. I know I > panicked last night. He was just flipping and spinning and darting, it > seemed so frantic, and I did get frightened. > > The male did have dropsy in mid October. I treated him with the Maracyn two > and with lifeguard, and he recovered. I think that recent incident > exacerbated my fear and concern about his symptoms. > > I have been working on getting ready to move them to a 55g tank. On Thursday > I did PWC several times. I put the small filter carbon pouch ( from the > Whisper C) in the new, larger filter Aqua Clear 70) to run it for a while, > and then put it back. I was worried that after returning the carbon pouch to > the small filter, it may have introduced some of the elevated ammonia level. > But that seem so unlikely, as the large tank had only a slight elevation of > amm. > > When I had the water in the 20g tested last week, it was fine on all > measures. I have a heater in the tank, but it doesn't seem to heat the water > above 68 degrees, so may need a new heater. The poop was white last night, > today, maybe a little green ( after all the peas) > > I may have used the term "cloning" the tank differently. I was looking at it > as a process. I should have said Iwas in the process of cloning the tank. I > have not completed it, because I was hesitant to move the fish ( and the > water and all other objects) without first having some means to test the > water. > > I am always very cautious about using any chemicals or sprays. I tend to use > more natural cleaners, when I must clean. LOL I was trying to think of what > could have contaminated the tank (if anything), or how the ammonia level > could have gone up to a toxic level ( if the poisoning, hypothesis was > correct ) > > They do love the pea "meat." It is a little difficult to know right now, if > the improvement is due to the peas or the M-II. But I will read everything > you all have written again and test the water, and get back to you. > > "Hanging out by the bubbles" was my comment, not from the Mardel pamphlet, > but I thought it was somewhat consistent with their " rubbing or scratching" > in describing Velvet or protozoan disease. Sorry for the confusion. I just > felt so helpless to see him thrashing about, and not knowing what to do. I > did notice today, that the male has one yellowish/ white spot on the right > side, midway up on his body, above the anus fin. > > I will do a PWC in the 20g now. Later, I will write with more info on the > parameters of the tank. > Joanna > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "shadow_eyeonx" <shadow_eyeonx@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > , "olesonjo" <olesonjo@> wrote: > > > > > > Suddenly the fish, especially one, is darting around frantically, > > wabbly, eating from the > > > bottom, and floating on his side, or back, all very rapidly. I have > > not moved them into the > > > new tank, still in the 20 gal. > > > I put some Maracyn-two in the tank, also some salt. I am afraid I > > am going to lose him, or > > > both of them. Any suggestions? > > > Joanna > > > > > > > Hi. I'm new here, so bear with me. I'm new to yahoo altogether and > > trying to figure how to best navigate through the messages. I did read > > the replies. There are some things I'd like to point out and I'll add > > suggestions about caring for the goldfish. > > > > Any antibacterial medication can promote "super bugs" in either full > > or partial doses. It's not the medication, but rather the biology of > > bacteria that allows for the resistance. > > > > Please give a summary of what's in the tank the goldfish you're > > treating is in. Other than being 20 gallons, what's the filter on it? > > What substrate is in it? Any tank mates? What are the current water > > parameters? Please provide numbers of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH > > results. It will allow me to get a good idea of what's going on > > biologically with the water. What's the temperature? What does the > > poop look like? Is it brown, white, clear or red? > > > > What I would do is stop the maracyn and clear it out of the aquarium > > by using fresh carbon and doing a series of small water changes...no > > more than 25% at a time until 100% is reached. Perhaps once or twice > > in a day. Then switch medications to a mix of methylene blue and > > malachite green...half dose of each. In combination, this treats as an > > anti-protozoal, anti-microbial and anti-parasitic medication and I > > find it very effective in concert with simple basic first aid health > > care and water maintenance. > > > > Since the fish is scratching, external parasites may be present and > > many parasites tend to leave behind protozoal infections, which is why > > I recommend the combo of the two meds. > > > > It also helps to use a garlic additive in the food, such as Kent's > > Garlic Xtreme. This will make the fish taste bad for any potential > > external parasites looking to latch on. It also helps maintain a good > > appetite. > > > > As of the buoyancy issue, the peas are a good recommendation. You can > > also wet the dry food as it's put into the tank. Don't let it float on > > the surface. Sometimes floating around like that could be from > > ingesting air or dry food expanding in their digestive system. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34509	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

I roll the tube over the card so I can look through the water in the tube and see the range of card colors beneath. Then I hold the whole thing up to the light (we have the daylight fluorescents). I just choose the closest color, or use judgement if the test result color in the tube is in between the card indicators. Nitrate is the only one that was a problem for me. Someone once suggested to keep Nitrates below 20ppm good for the fish, and you avoid the higher colors on the card that are difficult to distinguish! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Lenny always says this, I did double check my color vision, and it isn't a problem with color vision. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. http://colorvisiont <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> esting.com/ http://www.toledo- <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp> bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: tap water vs. bottled

What are your tap water parameters? Read my blog article about "How to find your tap water baseline" for more details on knowing this important baseline test results. Do you have a Master Test Kit? You can get the Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kit for under $20.00 at Walmart.com (with free delivery to your local store). That will give you the ability to test for ammonia, nitrite, pH, GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness), CO2... so you would still need a separate Nitrate test kit. The API Master Test Kit (also under $20.00 from Walmart.com) tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH so you would need the separate GH/KH test kit (which would also give you the CO2 since you need to know pH and KH). The T-L kit would get you started for a little less money but the API is a better overall value as it has more reagent chemicals so you will get more tests done with it. They both will usually last for a year or more but they should be replaced after a year, once they are opened, anyhow. Even if you have very hard water, there are still plenty of fish that like this kind of water and would thrive. Some folks out there would kill to have your "problem". Depending on your test results, you could also dilute it with distilled water to make it softer and possibly a lower pH so you would still see a huge savings in the cost of buying bottled spring water. Have you ever had your well water tested by a professional lab? Or maybe your County Agent has the ability to perform a lot of the tests to determine if the water is safe for human consumption... and to tell you the source of the smell. What does it smell like? If like rotten eggs, read this... http://www.mrwa.com/watersmellrotteneggs.htm Filling a 5G bucket and putting an airstone in it will cause it to outgas the smell faster before you have to add it to your tank. If you decide to start using your tap water, you will have to acclimate your fish slowly... no more than 5-10% at a time (maybe per day for the first few weeks). If at any time, the fish start to show signs of distress, have some of your bottled water ready to do a 25% PWC to bring the water back closer to their previously acclimated parameters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tootsie2toes2 Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 2:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tap water vs. bottled I've been purchasing bottled spring water for years for my fish tank. Someone here suggested I use my tap water. I don't drink my tap water, since I have a well and it smells bad. There are also iron deposits and sometimes a black grit will settle from it. Obviously, I don't need a chlorine dissipator, but is there any way I could treat this hard tap water so I could use it for my fish tank? Purchasing and lugging the water is expensive and work.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: tap water vs. bottled

Remember, with using 100% RO water, you have to add back some of the good stuff you removed. Kent's RO Right is one such product. There are others. Using an RO filter and diluting the tap water would be OK. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] tap water vs. bottled Yes, there is. The product is called a Reverse Osmosis Water Filter. They are not very cheap and do not have a high water flow rate but you could drink the water and so could your fish. In most cases they must be hooked up in-line to your well water system by a plumber. Bill --- On Wed, 12/17/08, tootsie2toes2 <tootsie2toes2@... <mailto:tootsie2toes2%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: tootsie2toes2 <tootsie2toes2@... <mailto:tootsie2toes2%40yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] tap water vs. bottled To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 3:16 PM I've been purchasing bottled spring water for years for my fish tank. Someone here suggested I use my tap water. I don't drink my tap water, since I have a well and it smells bad. There are also iron deposits and sometimes a black grit will settle from it. Obviously, I don't need a chlorine dissipator, but is there any way I could treat this hard tap water so I could use it for my fish tank? Purchasing and lugging the water is expensive and work. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34512	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites

Hmm, having tried the salt water floatation technique - you'd need a pretty tiny flask! LOL! You need very fresh fish droppings, or you'll pretty much only find tank bacteria - from what I understand. They could really use you on the avian microscopy list at yahoogroups. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites I'm just curious. I used to be a vet tech back in the late 70's and early 80's, and I ran my fair share of fecal exams. When I became a stay-at-home mom, I bought my own microscope and testing supplies and I still run fecal tests on my own animals. If (and that's a big IF), if I could collect enough fresh feces from the goldfish, could I use the same salt water floatation method to check for parasite eggs? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34513	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites

Not sure but here's a long and active forum thread all about goldfish poop, including photos of various goldfish poops. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 You could ask them but I've never seen any details of what kind of fecal tests are/were done. I couldn't find the actual procedure for fecal testing but I imagine it's the same as for other animals. Here's a snip from... http://www.petplace.com/fish/pet-fish-diagnostics/page1.aspx Performing a fecal examination on your fish is a safe and inexpensive way to look for internal parasites. Your veterinarian may ask you to bring in a fresh fecal sample if you are planning a visit to the clinic. You should not collect a fecal sample from the bottom of your aquarium. Fecal material can be quickly colonized by opportunistic organisms that may make diagnosis difficult. The day before bringing your fish to the vet, it can be placed in a plastic bag, clean jar, or small aquarium, and a fecal sample can be collected within a matter of hours in most cases. And another snip from... http://www.nishikikoiclub.com/main_menu/Quarantine.htm Last, check the fish feces. The fresher the feces, the better. Typical feces is either light gray or brown (depending on the diet), narrow and tubular and firm. If the feces is whitish and stringy, this is an indication of a possible internal parasite problem. A microscope study of fresh feces is always an interesting ordeal and quite revealing in the health of the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites I'm just curious. I used to be a vet tech back in the late 70's and early 80's, and I ran my fair share of fecal exams. When I became a stay-at-home mom, I bought my own microscope and testing supplies and I still run fecal tests on my own animals. If (and that's a big IF), if I could collect enough fresh feces from the goldfish, could I use the same salt water floatation method to check for parasite eggs? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34514	From: rcdtrc	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Java Moss

How long does java moss take to take a hold on a surface? Does it require any particular maintenance or care?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34515	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: tap water vs. bottled

I read the thread that developed from this message, but somehow missed this originating message. I've lived with wells before, and may do so in the future, but they have all had good water, unlike yours. It is likely that your neighbors, drawing from the same aquifer, have the same problems you do with their water, and this is where I would start. If you discover your neighbors do not have problems, then your well probably needs some work, or a new one needs to be drilled. If your neighbors do have the same problems, find out how they are resolving the issues. Some may have whole house solutions, others may have spot solutions--i.e. a sink filter for drinking water. Find out who they have doing the work, and, I'm fairly sure, they will tell you what they think of them without any prompting. Sit down with this information, and start making some decisions as to how you want to pursue the fixing of your water supply. This is not only for your fish, but for yourself and your family as well. Once you have arrived at a couple of solutions, then start talking with those that do the work, and sell the product to make your decision. Beware of smoke and mirrors <g>. Bill mentioned an RO unit. He said it should be inserted in your main line. That is not necessary. An RO filter can be used as a "local" solution, like I mentioned above. One fact is that it can take 5 gallons or more of "bad" water to make 1 gallon of "good" water. Do some reading on reverse osmosis filtration before seriously considering such a unit. They are not inexpensive to buy or run, and do create a lot of waste water. While you are doing your research, you'll need to continue using the bottled water. Stick with the same brand for some consistency, but be aware that the original source may not be the same from purchase to purchase, so you'll need to run some tests on it, at least for pH, for each batch you get. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > tootsie2toes2 > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 3:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] tap water vs. bottled > > I've been purchasing bottled spring water for years for my fish tank. > Someone here suggested I use my tap water. I don't drink my tap > water, since I have a well and it smells bad. There are also iron > deposits and sometimes a black grit will settle from it. Obviously, I > don't need a chlorine dissipator, but is there any way I could treat > this hard tap water so I could use it for my fish tank? Purchasing > and lugging the water is expensive and work. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34516	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: My corys laid eggs

Happy holidays, Lenny the cory cats in my 25 guppy tank paired off and laid eggs .They are attached to the sides of the tank and on some of the plants. What do think is the best way to proceed? Will they eat the eggs? The guppies don't seem to go anywhere near them. What is the best source of information on the corys? Thanks, Steve Biondi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34517	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

the tv show "wa$ted" chose our house to get an eco friendly make over. we tend to not recycle and waste alot of electricity. Hopefully we will lessen our carbon footprint. Should air sometime in march. BTW they said my 150 gallon goldfish tank, 55 gallon fancy guppy tank, 55 gallon tropical, 35 gallon femal guppy, 20 gallon tropical and 20 gallon hermit crab tanks waste too much electricity and waste too much water. I will fight them to the death if they try to get me to get rid of my tanks!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34518	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: My corys laid eggs

Below is PlanetCatfish.com's page on Reproduction. Without a separate tank, you will most likely lose most, if not all of the eggs/fry. Did you see a male fertilize the eggs? Look for your species, if known and listed... if not known or listed, read over the other articles. There's about 10 articles just on "Breeding Corydoras ________" so hopefully one of these species is yours. http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/index.php#Reproduction Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My corys laid eggs Happy holidays, Lenny the cory cats in my 25 guppy tank paired off and laid eggs .They are attached to the sides of the tank and on some of the plants. What do think is the best way to proceed? Will they eat the eggs? The guppies don't seem to go anywhere near them. What is the best source of information on the corys? Thanks, Steve Biondi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

Sounds like leftists who probably got "Wa$ted" on too much whacky tobacky and then went to Soros with this demented TV show idea. LOL Tell them I'll gladly pay for the chains and locks if they want to chain themselves to a tree somewhere.... I'll keep the keys and check on them when Spring rolls around! ;-) Tell them that you'll do your part to conserve water by coming to their house every day to use their toilet and then they can go a week before flushing it each time to conserve the 1.5G of water. ;-) BTW... did they have hamsters running on hamster wheels to power up their vehicles and all their equipment? Of course not... they used gas, coal and electricity. What hypocrites!!!! On a side note... why the hell would you let such leftist whackos in your home? Did you check all your jewelry and other valuables?... oh yeah... and your potato chips. You know they get the munchies when they smoke that whacky tobacky! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY the tv show "wa$ted" chose our house to get an eco friendly make over. we tend to not recycle and waste alot of electricity. Hopefully we will lessen our carbon footprint. Should air sometime in march. BTW they said my 150 gallon goldfish tank, 55 gallon fancy guppy tank, 55 gallon tropical, 35 gallon femal guppy, 20 gallon tropical and 20 gallon hermit crab tanks waste too much electricity and waste too much water. I will fight them to the death if they try to get me to get rid of my tanks!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34520	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/17/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia > but > > then > > > > activated > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > > Carbon > > > also > > > > does > > > > > not remove > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > probably > > just > > > an A- > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink > in > > my old > > > home > > > > and > > > > > I would > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my > Betta > > tank > > > but it > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount > of > > water > > > that > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I > used > > it on > > > my > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set > up > > to dose > > > 1G > > > > or > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > > precise > > > syringe > > > > to > > > > > worry about > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the > Pur > > filter > > > for > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing > 25% > > PWC's > > > on a > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are > the > > worst > > > in > > > > the > > > > > world, I > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta > filter > > for > > > the > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin > Tap > > Water > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a > 55G > > tank > > > and > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you > over > > 3 > > > > years ... > > > > > probably much > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon > filters > > on > > > the > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and > treats > > more > > > > water > > > > > but it's > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've > been > > > getting > > > > the > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would > order it > > > online > > > > from > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't > worth > > paying > > > more > > > > for > > > > > shipping > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your > tap > > water > > > > without > > > > > using the > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you > will > > use > > > in > > > > the > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since > the > > dechlor > > > will > > > > > break the > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the > water > > goes > > > > through > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other > nasty > > things > > > (I'll > > > > > search down > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). > The > > zero > > > > reading > > > > > is right > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through > the > > > filter. I > > > > > don't add > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > > straight > > > tap > > > > water > > > > > and > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if > the > > extra > > > > aeration > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your > dechlor > > > product > > > > (which > > > > > one do you > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > adding > > the > > > dechlor? > > > > If > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and > did > > see > > > the > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > after > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies > that > > your > > > tap > > > > > water is > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical > made > > by > > > binding > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > > alarming, > > > > especially > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > > fully > > > cycled > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is > easily > > > handled by > > > > the > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > > system > > > but > > > > also > > > > > in other > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough > as > > the > > > sickness > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > osmoregulatory > > > > balance > > > > > with the > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also > going > > > through > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape > by > > doing > > > your > > > > > testing and > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > > Goldfish > > > needs > > > > lots > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > This can be > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > lowering > > the > > > water > > > > level > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > > water > > > causes > > > > more > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 > to > > the > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make > it > > and > > > then > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > > sign. She > > > is > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the > bug- > > eyes) > > > is > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was > before I > > > started > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very > tired > > and > > > wants > > > > to > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > patches > > are > > > slowly > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? > Salt > > is > > > still > > > > about > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the > tank > > > yesterday > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille > turn > > out to > > > be a > > > > > male, I guess > > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Orig<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34521	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

If the water from the tanks gets used on the lawn or other plants it is eco friendly. You can also flush toilets with a bucket of old tank water. But that might not be a good visual for the TV show :). If the Goldfish tank is not heated as most are not, then you should only be powering the filter and lights. If you are running flourescent lighting you are already saving power over the old standard bulb type. If you run a timer on the lighting you are potentially saving power as they come on for a predetermined amount of time. Just because they do not think of or introduce the idea does not mean it is not already saving energy. You can always insualte the back, sides and bottom of the tanks if it does not make them too unattractive. This will help the tanks retain heat. A hood also retains heat and moisture. Make them learn from you. That way when they make over other homes they can use these ideas on those homes. Looking forward to seeing your tanks on TV :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: turbocoupe76 <turbocoupe76@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 8:47 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY the tv show "wa$ted" chose our house to get an eco friendly make over. we tend to not recycle and waste alot of electricity. Hopefully we will lessen our carbon footprint. Should air som etime in march. BTW they said my 150 gallon goldfish tank, 55 gallon fancy guppy tank, 55 gallon tropical, 35 gallon femal guppy, 20 gallon tropical and 20 gallon hermit crab tanks waste too much electricity and waste too much water. I will fight them to the death if they try to get me to get rid of my tanks!!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34522	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

Forgot to mention. If any of your tanks are acrylic they retain heat better than glass. Maybe you can get them to "Upgrade" your tanks to larger acrylic tanks :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:30 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY If the water from the tanks gets used on the lawn or other plants it is eco friendly. You can also flush toilets with a bucket of old tank water. But that might not be a good visual for the TV show :). If the Goldfish tank is not heated as most are not, then you should only be powering the filter and lights. If you are running flourescent lighting you are already saving power over the old standard bulb type. If you run a timer on the lighting you are potentially saving power as they come on for a predetermined amount of time. Just because they do not think of or introduce the idea does not mean it is not already saving energy. You can always insualte the back, sides and bottom of the tanks if it does not make them too unattractive. This will help the tanks retain heat. A hood also retains heat and moisture. Make them learn from you. That way when they make over other homes they can use these ideas on those homes. Looking forward to seeing your tanks on TV :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: turbocoupe76 <turbocoupe76@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 8:47 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY the tv show "wa$ted" chose our house to get an eco friendly make over. we tend to not recycle and waste alot of electricity. Hopefully we will lessen our carbon footprint. Should air som etime in march. BTW they said my 150 gallon goldfish tank, 55 gallon fancy guppy tank, 55 gallon tropical, 35 gallon femal guppy, 20 gallon tropical and 20 gallon hermit crab tanks waste too much electricity and waste too much water. I will fight them to the death if they try to get me to get rid of my tanks!!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34523	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia > but > > then > > > > activated > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > > Carbon > > > also > > > > does > > > > > not remove > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > probably > > just > > > an A- > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink > in > > my old > > > home > > > > and > > > > > I would > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my > Betta > > tank > > > but it > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount > of > > water > > > that > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I > used > > it on > > > my > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set > up > > to dose > > > 1G > > > > or > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > > precise > > > syringe > > > > to > > > > > worry about > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the > Pur > > filter > > > for > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing > 25% > > PWC's > > > on a > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are > the > > worst > > > in > > > > the > > > > > world, I > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta > filter > > for > > > the > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin > Tap > > Water > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a > 55G > > tank > > > and > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you > over > > 3 > > > > years ... > > > > > probably much > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon > filters > > on > > > the > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and > treats > > more > > > > water > > > > > but it's > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've > been > > > getting > > > > the > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would > order it > > > online > > > > from > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't > worth > > paying > > > more > > > > for > > > > > shipping > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your > tap > > water > > > > without > > > > > using the > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you > will > > use > > > in > > > > the > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since > the > > dechlor > > > will > > > > > break the > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the > water > > goes > > > > through > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other > nasty > > things > > > (I'll > > > > > search down > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). > The > > zero > > > > reading > > > > > is right > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through > the > > > filter. I > > > > > don't add > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > > straight > > > tap > > > > water > > > > > and > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if > the > > extra > > > > aeration > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your > dechlor > > > product > > > > (which > > > > > one do you > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > adding > > the > > > dechlor? > > > > If > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and > did > > see > > > the > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > after > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies > that > > your > > > tap > > > > > water is > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical > made > > by > > > binding > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > > alarming, > > > > especially > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > > fully > > > cycled > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is > easily > > > handled by > > > > the > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > > system > > > but > > > > also > > > > > in other > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough > as > > the > > > sickness > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > osmoregulatory > > > > balance > > > > > with the > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also > going > > > through > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape > by > > doing > > > your > > > > > testing and > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > > Goldfish > > > needs > > > > lots > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > This can be > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > lowering > > the > > > water > > > > level > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > > water > > > causes > > > > more > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 > to > > the > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make > it > > and > > > then > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > > sign. She > > > is > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the > bug- > > eyes) > > > is > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was > before I > > > started > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very > tired > > and > > > wants > > > > to > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > patches > > are > > > slowly > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? > Salt > > is > > > still > > > > about > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the > tank > > > yesterday > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille > turn > > out to > > > be a > > > > > male, I guess > > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > > teaspoons > > > per > > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > > goldfish... > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > > adding 3 > > > > teaspoons > > > > > per gallon > > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and > this > > will > > > slowly > > > > > bring the > > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. > Oops.. > > I > > > started > > > > > typing my > > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > > already > > > started > > > > > doing this.. > > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > > water > > > just to > > > > > make sure your > > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the > 15 > > > teaspoons > > > > to > > > > > every five > > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many > people > > use > > > those > > > > 5G > > > > > buckets for > > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G > mark in > > a 5G > > > > bucket, > > > > > fill it to > > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > > salt, > > > etc.) > > > > and > > > > > then slowly > > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning > water > > out, use > > > the > > > > > same mark to > > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for > the > > 2.5G > > > or 3G > > > > > mark is you > > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top > or > > you'll > > > > spill a > > > > > lot when > > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure > your > > tank, > > > L" x > > > > W" x > > > > > H" and > > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it > out > > > yourself. > > > > For > > > > > your > > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. > gallons on > > any > > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is > the > > formula. > > > L" > > > > x W" > > > > > x H" = > > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. > Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > > adverse > > > effect > > > > on the > > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled > anyhow > > so it > > > > > probably just > > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the > fish > > > healthy > > > > was > > > > > more > > > > > > important than worrying about the N- bacteria > right > > now. > > > > Sometimes > > > > > we have to > > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > > completely > > > kills > > > > off > > > > > all of the > > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing > > better (I > > > > always > > > > > hate saying > > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) > but > > every > > > once > > > > in a > > > > > while, we > > > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to > save. > > > Goldfish > > > > have a > > > > > HUGE will > > > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some > > really bad > > > > > conditions > > > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet > store > > that > > > > doesn't > > > > > give proper > > > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, > > cycling, > > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank > on > > his > > > sleigh > > > > for > > > > > you... and > > > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her > name. > > It's > > > > difficult > > > > > to sex > > > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females > are > > > harder to > > > > > tell but males > > > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on > their > > gill > > > covers > > > > and > > > > > the leading > > > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see > these > > for the > > > > first > > > > > time and > > > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the > little > > white > > > bumps > > > > just > > > > > on the > > > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral > fins, > > that > > > means > > > > you > > > > > have a > > > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll > just > > have to > > > > rename > > > > > him to > > > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all > of > > the > > > fish > > > > to > > > > > have found > > > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so > > you're OK > > > > with > > > > > them. LOL > > > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding > > stars/tubercles so > > > > you'll > > > > > know what to > > > > > > look for. > > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these > > goldfish) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so > it > > won't > > > be > > > > 1.0 > > > > > again > > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water > I > > was > > > putting > > > > in. > > > > > I just > > > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was > > thinking > > > it > > > > didn't > > > > > feel like > > > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 > is > > 7.5). > > > > Today > > > > > when I did > > > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference > with > > a > > > ruler > > > > and > > > > > it was > > > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made > sure > > to > > > count > > > > > gallons as I > > > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I > could > > have > > > sworn > > > > my > > > > > dd told me > > > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! > I > > figure > > > > yesterday > > > > > I removed > > > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to > make it > > > 27.5T. > > > > > Tonight I removed > > > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to > make > > 25.6T. > > > The > > > > fish > > > > > seem to be > > > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next > PWC > > and > > > just > > > > not > > > > > add any salt > > > > > > back and that should get it within an > acceptable > > level > > > for a > > > > 20 > > > > > gallon tank. > > > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria > with > > the > > > extra > > > > > salt. It's > > > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff > on > > the > > > > goldfish. > > > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 > > Nitrite: .25 > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 10 > > > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through > > Brita > > > filter): > > > > > pH:7.4; > > > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the > tank > > > readings, > > > > the > > > > > pH usually > > > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but > reads > > lower > > > than > > > > 7.6 > > > > > and > > > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the > high > > range > > > test > > > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API > makes > > a > > > > combination > > > > > pack GH and > > > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get > them, > > having > > > the > > > > > four basics > > > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine > for > > > goldfish > > > > > since your pH > > > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough > hardness > > in your > > > > water. > > > > > As your > > > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much > between > > PWC's, > > > then > > > > the > > > > > GH and KH > > > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big > > drops in > > > pH > > > > after > > > > > a week, > > > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p > and > > then a > > > > capital > > > > > H since it > > > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH > are > > always > > > > > capitalized for > > > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > > > Alkalinity in > > > > > some test > > > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason > for > > the KH > > > > instead > > > > > of CH is > > > > > > that this testing scale is based on German > degrees > > of > > > > hardness > > > > > and Karbonat > > > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate > > Hardness, > > > thus > > > > KH. > > > > > A German > > > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm > > (actually > > > 17.85 > > > > but > > > > > 18 for > > > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you > see > > GH as > > > > 180ppm, > > > > > that would > > > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:59 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Ooops! Will also start baseline tests tomorrow > > morning. > > > Where > > > > do > > > > > I find test > > > > > > kits for kH and gH and what do the levels mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any good aquarium shops in > the > > Metro > > > > Detroit > > > > > area of > > > > > > Michigan? The place my dd went to went under > over > > the > > > summer. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (day 3 of salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - CB has developed dark spots on the body at > the > > base of > > > the > > > > tail > > > > > and dorsal > > > > > > fin, basically where the cottony stuff is > gradually > > > > disappearing. > > > > > Raven > > > > > > seems to have less cotton, but can't tell if > she's > > > getting > > > > dark > > > > > spots, > > > > > > because she's black. Raven seems less curios > today, > > but > > > still > > > > has > > > > > a good > > > > > > appetite. Lucille just fine as usual. > > > > > > - midnight H2O tests: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: 1.0 > > Nitrite: .25 > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 20 > > > > > > - Did PWC and will retest in morning (treated > > replacement > > > > water > > > > > with 1T per > > > > > > G salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Discovered our cat really likes salty fish > water > > so > > > made > > > > mental > > > > > note to > > > > > > dump it right away after siphoning it off in > the > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34524	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites

Heheheh, or a LOT of fish poop! I think the only way I could be sure of getting parasite eggs would be to catch a poop string before it detaches from the fish's butt to make sure it's fresh. I don't know if I could be that coordinated with long handled tongs. I'm also not so sure the fish would put up with that. I'm not sure what I could add to an avian microscopy group. As it is, I'd have to search down pics of fish parasite eggs if I did find any. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Hmm, having tried the salt water floatation technique - you'd need a pretty tiny flask! LOL! You need very fresh fish droppings, or you'll pretty much only find tank bacteria - from what I understand. They could really use you on the avian microscopy list at yahoogroups. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites I'm just curious. I used to be a vet tech back in the late 70's and early 80's, and I ran my fair share of fecal exams. When I became a stay-at-home mom, I bought my own microscope and testing supplies and I still run fecal tests on my own animals. If (and that's a big IF), if I could collect enough fresh feces from the goldfish, could I use the same salt water floatation method to check for parasite eggs? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34525	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

Mike, You're too nice to them eco-nazis. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 2:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY If the water from the tanks gets used on the lawn or other plants it is eco friendly. You can also flush toilets with a bucket of old tank water. But that might not be a good visual for the TV show :). If the Goldfish tank is not heated as most are not, then you should only be powering the filter and lights. If you are running flourescent lighting you are already saving power over the old standard bulb type. If you run a timer on the lighting you are potentially saving power as they come on for a predetermined amount of time. Just because they do not think of or introduce the idea does not mean it is not already saving energy. You can always insualte the back, sides and bottom of the tanks if it does not make them too unattractive. This will help the tanks retain heat. A hood also retains heat and moisture. Make them learn from you. That way when they make over other homes they can use these ideas on those homes. Looking forward to seeing your tanks on TV :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: turbocoupe76 <turbocoupe76@... <mailto:turbocoupe76%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 8:47 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY the tv show "wa$ted" chose our house to get an eco friendly make over. we tend to not recycle and waste alot of electricity. Hopefully we will lessen our carbon footprint. Should air som etime in march. BTW they said my 150 gallon goldfish tank, 55 gallon fancy guppy tank, 55 gallon tropical, 35 gallon femal guppy, 20 gallon tropical and 20 gallon hermit crab tanks waste too much electricity and waste too much water. I will fight them to the death if they try to get me to get rid of my tanks!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites

Feed them lots of green pea "meat" and have your fish net ready for the "outcome" shortly afterwards. The little test tubes from the API test kit might be used. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Heheheh, or a LOT of fish poop! I think the only way I could be sure of getting parasite eggs would be to catch a poop string before it detaches from the fish's butt to make sure it's fresh. I don't know if I could be that coordinated with long handled tongs. I'm also not so sure the fish would put up with that. I'm not sure what I could add to an avian microscopy group. As it is, I'd have to search down pics of fish parasite eggs if I did find any. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Hmm, having tried the salt water floatation technique - you'd need a pretty tiny flask! LOL! You need very fresh fish droppings, or you'll pretty much only find tank bacteria - from what I understand. They could really use you on the avian microscopy list at yahoogroups. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites I'm just curious. I used to be a vet tech back in the late 70's and early 80's, and I ran my fair share of fecal exams. When I became a stay-at-home mom, I bought my own microscope and testing supplies and I still run fecal tests on my own animals. If (and that's a big IF), if I could collect enough fresh feces from the goldfish, could I use the same salt water floatation method to check for parasite eggs? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34527	From: N Taweel	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Bug question

Hi everyone, I have a 6G cycled tank, with only 20-30 MTS snails in it, no fish, not now and not before. It contains a bubble up polyster filter in it, and a heater, gravel, and two live Amazon plants that are dying "I put them there only because the clown loaches were eating them in the big tank. I keep the tank cycled for emergency needs, my problem is that I noticed small white worm-like bugs on the glass, they are many, some of them reached the size of 3 mm, others seem to have leggs, and are about 1 mm in size, also white. Are they harmful? should I do anything about them? Can bringing some Zebra Danios or other fish from my big tank take care of them? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34528	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Bug question

The worms on the glass are likely planaria. Not harmful but an indicator that you might not be vacuuming your gravel enough. They usually start to thrive when there is a lot of detritus/food in the gravel. I have them in my Cherry Shrimp tank since I'm not able to vacuum my gravel very well since I always have so many baby shrimp running around. I consider them part of the overall ecology of the tank and they help clean up.... kind of like snails which are part of nature's clean-up crew. Most fish will not eat planaria but cutting back on feeding will... and then as the planaria die off, the snails will eat their carcasses. I'm not sure about the ones that "seem to have legs" and are much smaller. Let me know if you can view these pages with photos/diagrams of various critters so that you might be able to compare them. Hopefully, you'll be able to access one or more of these sites. http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bug question Hi everyone, I have a 6G cycled tank, with only 20-30 MTS snails in it, no fish, not now and not before. It contains a bubble up polyster filter in it, and a heater, gravel, and two live Amazon plants that are dying "I put them there only because the clown loaches were eating them in the big tank. I keep the tank cycled for emergency needs, my problem is that I noticed small white worm-like bugs on the glass, they are many, some of them reached the size of 3 mm, others seem to have leggs, and are about 1 mm in size, also white. Are they harmful? should I do anything about them? Can bringing some Zebra Danios or other fish from my big tank take care of them? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34529	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites

Hmmmmm . . .that almost sounds do-able. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Feed them lots of green pea "meat" and have your fish net ready for the "outcome" shortly afterwards. The little test tubes from the API test kit might be used. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Heheheh, or a LOT of fish poop! I think the only way I could be sure of getting parasite eggs would be to catch a poop string before it detaches from the fish's butt to make sure it's fresh. I don't know if I could be that coordinated with long handled tongs. I'm also not so sure the fish would put up with that. I'm not sure what I could add to an avian microscopy group. As it is, I'd have to search down pics of fish parasite eggs if I did find any. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Hmm, having tried the salt water floatation technique - you'd need a pretty tiny flask! LOL! You need very fresh fish droppings, or you'll pretty much only find tank bacteria - from what I understand. They could really use you on the avian microscopy list at yahoogroups. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites I'm just curious. I used to be a vet tech back in the late 70's and early 80's, and I ran my fair share of fecal exams. When I became a stay-at-home mom, I bought my own microscope and testing supplies and I still run fecal tests on my own animals. If (and that's a big IF), if I could collect enough fresh feces from the goldfish, could I use the same salt water floatation method to check for parasite eggs? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34530	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Bug question

Lenny, are planaria actually a good thing to have in the aquarium? I collected a bunch of creek samples for my microscope, and I bet I have some that i could pick off. I'm somewhat expert at that,having done an actual project of training planaria in college. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Bug question The worms on the glass are likely planaria. Not harmful but an indicator that you might not be vacuuming your gravel enough. They usually start to thrive when there is a lot of detritus/food in the gravel. I have them in my Cherry Shrimp tank since I'm not able to vacuum my gravel very well since I always have so many baby shrimp running around. I consider them part of the overall ecology of the tank and they help clean up.... kind of like snails which are part of nature's clean-up crew. Most fish will not eat planaria but cutting back on feeding will... and then as the planaria die off, the snails will eat their carcasses. I'm not sure about the ones that "seem to have legs" and are much smaller. Let me know if you can view these pages with photos/diagrams of various critters so that you might be able to compare them. Hopefully, you'll be able to access one or more of these sites. http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bug question Hi everyone, I have a 6G cycled tank, with only 20-30 MTS snails in it, no fish, not now and not before. It contains a bubble up polyster filter in it, and a heater, gravel, and two live Amazon plants that are dying "I put them there only because the clown loaches were eating them in the big tank. I keep the tank cycled for emergency needs, my problem is that I noticed small white worm-like bugs on the glass, they are many, some of them reached the size of 3 mm, others seem to have leggs, and are about 1 mm in size, also white. Are they harmful? should I do anything about them? Can bringing some Zebra Danios or other fish from my big tank take care of them? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34531	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

I always look crossways through the tube. Held back from the paper. Now, on the nitrate test, that way you get 5 ppm, and if you look straight down through the tube you get 20 - which is the right way? I do partial water changes every day, so even with 21 fish in a 20 gallon tank, it seems like the smaller figure is more likely. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results I roll the tube over the card so I can look through the water in the tube and see the range of card colors beneath. Then I hold the whole thing up to the light (we have the daylight fluorescents). I just choose the closest color, or use judgement if the test result color in the tube is in between the card indicators. Nitrate is the only one that was a problem for me. Someone once suggested to keep Nitrates below 20ppm.good for the fish, and you avoid the higher colors on the card that are difficult to distinguish! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Lenny always says this, I did double check my color vision, and it isn't a problem with color vision. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. http://colorvisiont <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> esting.com/ http://www.toledo- <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp> bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34532	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites

Deb, do you only know how to spot parasite eggs in fish? Surely they weren't the vet's main clients? It can be hard to distinguish the things from bubbles. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Heheheh, or a LOT of fish poop! I think the only way I could be sure of getting parasite eggs would be to catch a poop string before it detaches from the fish's butt to make sure it's fresh. I don't know if I could be that coordinated with long handled tongs. I'm also not so sure the fish would put up with that. I'm not sure what I could add to an avian microscopy group. As it is, I'd have to search down pics of fish parasite eggs if I did find any. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Hmm, having tried the salt water floatation technique - you'd need a pretty tiny flask! LOL! You need very fresh fish droppings, or you'll pretty much only find tank bacteria - from what I understand. They could really use you on the avian microscopy list at yahoogroups. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites I'm just curious. I used to be a vet tech back in the late 70's and early 80's, and I ran my fair share of fecal exams. When I became a stay-at-home mom, I bought my own microscope and testing supplies and I still run fecal tests on my own animals. If (and that's a big IF), if I could collect enough fresh feces from the goldfish, could I use the same salt water floatation method to check for parasite eggs? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34533	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites

Lenny, I've got the "little" test kits from the API test kits - those used for poop flotation tests are actually alot smaller - for BIRDS. Have you ever done or seen a flotation test? You need ALOTTA poop. Somebody on the avian microscopy list has a complete slide show online - somewhere. The idea is to get any eggs to float to the surface. I suppose if teh solution is too dilute you just ahve a smaller chance of finding the eggs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Feed them lots of green pea "meat" and have your fish net ready for the "outcome" shortly afterwards. The little test tubes from the API test kit might be used. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Heheheh, or a LOT of fish poop! I think the only way I could be sure of getting parasite eggs would be to catch a poop string before it detaches from the fish's butt to make sure it's fresh. I don't know if I could be that coordinated with long handled tongs. I'm also not so sure the fish would put up with that. I'm not sure what I could add to an avian microscopy group. As it is, I'd have to search down pics of fish parasite eggs if I did find any. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Hmm, having tried the salt water floatation technique - you'd need a pretty tiny flask! LOL! You need very fresh fish droppings, or you'll pretty much only find tank bacteria - from what I understand. They could really use you on the avian microscopy list at yahoogroups. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites I'm just curious. I used to be a vet tech back in the late 70's and early 80's, and I ran my fair share of fecal exams. When I became a stay-at-home mom, I bought my own microscope and testing supplies and I still run fecal tests on my own animals. If (and that's a big IF), if I could collect enough fresh feces from the goldfish, could I use the same salt water floatation method to check for parasite eggs? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34534	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites

No, I've never done a parasite test on fish before. My experience is with dogs, cats and horses. I was just curious if maybe I could do one on fish poop, just to see if I could pull it off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Deb, do you only know how to spot parasite eggs in fish? Surely they weren't the vet's main clients? It can be hard to distinguish the things from bubbles. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Heheheh, or a LOT of fish poop! I think the only way I could be sure of getting parasite eggs would be to catch a poop string before it detaches from the fish's butt to make sure it's fresh. I don't know if I could be that coordinated with long handled tongs. I'm also not so sure the fish would put up with that. I'm not sure what I could add to an avian microscopy group. As it is, I'd have to search down pics of fish parasite eggs if I did find any. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Hmm, having tried the salt water floatation technique - you'd need a pretty tiny flask! LOL! You need very fresh fish droppings, or you'll pretty much only find tank bacteria - from what I understand. They could really use you on the avian microscopy list at yahoogroups. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites I'm just curious. I used to be a vet tech back in the late 70's and early 80's, and I ran my fair share of fecal exams. When I became a stay-at-home mom, I bought my own microscope and testing supplies and I still run fecal tests on my own animals. If (and that's a big IF), if I could collect enough fresh feces from the goldfish, could I use the same salt water floatation method to check for parasite eggs? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34535	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

I believe you're supposed to look cross-ways. It never occurred to me to take the lid off and look down the length of it. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results I always look crossways through the tube. Held back from the paper. Now, on the nitrate test, that way you get 5 ppm, and if you look straight down through the tube you get 20 - which is the right way? I do partial water changes every day, so even with 21 fish in a 20 gallon tank, it seems like the smaller figure is more likely. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results I roll the tube over the card so I can look through the water in the tube and see the range of card colors beneath. Then I hold the whole thing up to the light (we have the daylight fluorescents). I just choose the closest color, or use judgement if the test result color in the tube is in between the card indicators. Nitrate is the only one that was a problem for me. Someone once suggested to keep Nitrates below 20ppm.good for the fish, and you avoid the higher colors on the card that are difficult to distinguish! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Lenny always says this, I did double check my color vision, and it isn't a problem with color vision. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. http://colorvisiont <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> esting.com/ http://www.toledo- <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp> bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34536	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

Read the instructions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results I always look crossways through the tube. Held back from the paper. Now, on the nitrate test, that way you get 5 ppm, and if you look straight down through the tube you get 20 - which is the right way? I do partial water changes every day, so even with 21 fish in a 20 gallon tank, it seems like the smaller figure is more likely. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results I roll the tube over the card so I can look through the water in the tube and see the range of card colors beneath. Then I hold the whole thing up to the light (we have the daylight fluorescents). I just choose the closest color, or use judgement if the test result color in the tube is in between the card indicators. Nitrate is the only one that was a problem for me. Someone once suggested to keep Nitrates below 20ppm.good for the fish, and you avoid the higher colors on the card that are difficult to distinguish! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Lenny always says this, I did double check my color vision, and it isn't a problem with color vision. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. http://colorvisiont <http://colorvisiontesting.com/ <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> > esting.com/ http://www.toledo- <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp> > bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34537	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Testing for Internal Parasites

If you want to make your own floatation solution, just dissolve as much Epsom Salts as will dissolve in boiling water, let it cool to room temperature, pour off the solution that results and store in a sealed bottle. Add that solution to a test tube containing the poop, stir, top off the tube just enough so that the solution will touch a slide coverslip placed on top of the tube, let the coverslip sit there for 5 minutes, remove and put on slide and scan for eggs. If you let the solution sit too long, the eggs will rupture and you get a false negative. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Lenny, I've got the "little" test kits from the API test kits - those used for poop flotation tests are actually alot smaller - for BIRDS. Have you ever done or seen a flotation test? You need ALOTTA poop. Somebody on the avian microscopy list has a complete slide show online - somewhere. The idea is to get any eggs to float to the surface. I suppose if teh solution is too dilute you just ahve a smaller chance of finding the eggs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Feed them lots of green pea "meat" and have your fish net ready for the "outcome" shortly afterwards. The little test tubes from the API test kit might be used. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Heheheh, or a LOT of fish poop! I think the only way I could be sure of getting parasite eggs would be to catch a poop string before it detaches from the fish's butt to make sure it's fresh. I don't know if I could be that coordinated with long handled tongs. I'm also not so sure the fish would put up with that. I'm not sure what I could add to an avian microscopy group. As it is, I'd have to search down pics of fish parasite eggs if I did find any. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites Hmm, having tried the salt water floatation technique - you'd need a pretty tiny flask! LOL! You need very fresh fish droppings, or you'll pretty much only find tank bacteria - from what I understand. They could really use you on the avian microscopy list at yahoogroups. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Testing for Internal Parasites I'm just curious. I used to be a vet tech back in the late 70's and early 80's, and I ran my fair share of fecal exams. When I became a stay-at-home mom, I bought my own microscope and testing supplies and I still run fecal tests on my own animals. If (and that's a big IF), if I could collect enough fresh feces from the goldfish, could I use the same salt water floatation method to check for parasite eggs? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34538	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Bug question

Legs? Any chance of photographing with microscope or good magnifying glass? Planaria don't have legs. It's always possible tehy are insect larva. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Taweel" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Bug question Hi everyone, I have a 6G cycled tank, with only 20-30 MTS snails in it, no fish, not now and not before. It contains a bubble up polyster filter in it, and a heater, gravel, and two live Amazon plants that are dying "I put them there only because the clown loaches were eating them in the big tank. I keep the tank cycled for emergency needs, my problem is that I noticed small white worm-like bugs on the glass, they are many, some of them reached the size of 3 mm, others seem to have leggs, and are about 1 mm in size, also white. Are they harmful? should I do anything about them? Can bringing some Zebra Danios or other fish from my big tank take care of them? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34539	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia > but > > then > > > > activated > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > > Carbon > > > also > > > > does > > > > > not remove > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > probably > > just > > > an A- > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink > in > > my old > > > home > > > > and > > > > > I would > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my > Betta > > tank > > > but it > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount > of > > water > > > that > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I > used > > it on > > > my > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set > up > > to dose > > > 1G > > > > or > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > > precise > > > syringe > > > > to > > > > > worry about > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the > Pur > > filter > > > for > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing > 25% > > PWC's > > > on a > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are > the > > worst > > > in > > > > the > > > > > world, I > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta > filter > > for > > > the > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin > Tap > > Water > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a > 55G > > tank > > > and > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you > over > > 3 > > > > years ... > > > > > probably much > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon > filters > > on > > > the > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and > treats > > more > > > > water > > > > > but it's > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've > been > > > getting > > > > the > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would > order it > > > online > > > > from > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't > worth > > paying > > > more > > > > for > > > > > shipping > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your > tap > > water > > > > without > > > > > using the > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you > will > > use > > > in > > > > the > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since > the > > dechlor > > > will > > > > > break the > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the > water > > goes > > > > through > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other > nasty > > things > > > (I'll > > > > > search down > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). > The > > zero > > > > reading > > > > > is right > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through > the > > > filter. I > > > > > don't add > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > > straight > > > tap > > > > water > > > > > and > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if > the > > extra > > > > aeration > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your > dechlor > > > product > > > > (which > > > > > one do you > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > adding > > the > > > dechlor? > > > > If > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and > did > > see > > > the > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > after > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies > that > > your > > > tap > > > > > water is > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical > made > > by > > > binding > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > > alarming, > > > > especially > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > > fully > > > cycled > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is > easily > > > handled by > > > > the > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > > system > > > but > > > > also > > > > > in other > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough > as > > the > > > sickness > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > osmoregulatory > > > > balance > > > > > with the > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also > going > > > through > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape > by > > doing > > > your > > > > > testing and > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > > Goldfish > > > needs > > > > lots > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > This can be > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > lowering > > the > > > water > > > > level > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > > water > > > causes > > > > more > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 > to > > the > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make > it > > and > > > then > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > > sign. She > > > is > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the > bug- > > eyes) > > > is > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was > before I > > > started > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very > tired > > and > > > wants > > > > to > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > patches > > are > > > slowly > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? > Salt > > is > > > still > > > > about > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the > tank > > > yesterday > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille > turn > > out to > > > be a > > > > > male, I guess > > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > > teaspoons > > > per > > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > > goldfish... > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > > adding 3 > > > > teaspoons > > > > > per gallon > > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and > this > > will > > > slowly > > > > > bring the > > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. > Oops.. > > I > > > started > > > > > typing my > > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > > already > > > started > > > > > doing this.. > > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > > water > > > just to > > > > > make sure your > > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the > 15 > > > teaspoons > > > > to > > > > > every five > > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many > people > > use > > > those > > > > 5G > > > > > buckets for > > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G > mark in > > a 5G > > > > bucket, > > > > > fill it to > > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > > salt, > > > etc.) > > > > and > > > > > then slowly > > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning > water > > out, use > > > the > > > > > same mark to > > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for > the > > 2.5G > > > or 3G > > > > > mark is you > > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top > or > > you'll > > > > spill a > > > > > lot when > > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure > your > > tank, > > > L" x > > > > W" x > > > > > H" and > > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it > out > > > yourself. > > > > For > > > > > your > > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. > gallons on > > any > > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is > the > > formula. > > > L" > > > > x W" > > > > > x H" = > > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. > Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > > adverse > > > effect > > > > on the > > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled > anyhow > > so it > > > > > probably just > > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the > fish > > > healthy > > > > was > > > > > more > > > > > > important than worrying about the N- bacteria > right > > now. > > > > Sometimes > > > > > we have to > > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > > completely > > > kills > > > > off > > > > > all of the > > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing > > better (I > > > > always > > > > > hate saying > > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) > but > > every > > > once > > > > in a > > > > > while, we > > > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to > save. > > > Goldfish > > > > have a > > > > > HUGE will > > > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some > > really bad > > > > > conditions > > > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet > store > > that > > > > doesn't > > > > > give proper > > > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, > > cycling, > > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank > on > > his > > > sleigh > > > > for > > > > > you... and > > > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her > name. > > It's > > > > difficult > > > > > to sex > > > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females > are > > > harder to > > > > > tell but males > > > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on > their > > gill > > > covers > > > > and > > > > > the leading > > > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see > these > > for the > > > > first > > > > > time and > > > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the > little > > white > > > bumps > > > > just > > > > > on the > > > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral > fins, > > that > > > means > > > > you > > > > > have a > > > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll > just > > have to > > > > rename > > > > > him to > > > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all > of > > the > > > fish > > > > to > > > > > have found > > > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so > > you're OK > > > > with > > > > > them. LOL > > > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding > > stars/tubercles so > > > > you'll > > > > > know what to > > > > > > look for. > > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these > > goldfish) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so > it > > won't > > > be > > > > 1.0 > > > > > again > > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water > I > > was > > > putting > > > > in. > > > > > I just > > > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was > > thinking > > > it > > > > didn't > > > > > feel like > > > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 > is > > 7.5). > > > > Today > > > > > when I did > > > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference > with > > a > > > ruler > > > > and > > > > > it was > > > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made > sure > > to > > > count > > > > > gallons as I > > > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I > could > > have > > > sworn > > > > my > > > > > dd told me > > > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! > I > > figure > > > > yesterday > > > > > I removed > > > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to > make it > > > 27.5T. > > > > > Tonight I removed > > > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to > make > > 25.6T. > > > The > > > > fish > > > > > seem to be > > > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next > PWC > > and > > > just > > > > not > > > > > add any salt > > > > > > back and that should get it within an > acceptable > > level > > > for a > > > > 20 > > > > > gallon tank. > > > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria > wit<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34540	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results

Dora, Hold the vial upright against the color chart, and view through the liquid. This would be "crossways", as you put it. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Dora Smith > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results > > I always look crossways through the tube. Held back from the paper. > > Now, on the nitrate test, that way you get 5 ppm, and if you look straight > down through the tube you get 20 - which is the right way? > > I do partial water changes every day, so even with 21 fish in a 20 gallon > tank, it seems like the smaller figure is more likely. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:23 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results > > > I roll the tube over the card so I can look through the water in the tube > and see the range of card colors beneath. Then I hold the whole thing up to > the light (we have the daylight fluorescents). I just choose the closest > color, or use judgement if the test result color in the tube is in between > the card indicators. > > > > Nitrate is the only one that was a problem for me. Someone once suggested > to keep Nitrates below 20ppm.good for the fish, and you avoid the higher > colors on the card that are difficult to distinguish! > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results > > > > Lenny always says this, I did double check my color vision, and it isn't a > problem with color vision. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:43 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results > > Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's > always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary > online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. > > http://colorvisiont <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> esting.com/ > http://www.toledo- <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp> > bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34541	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: "Plant Gro" Product

Quick plant question guys, I have a tank 25 days into cycling.  Ammonia is starting to build 0-.25 ppm.  No nitrites or nitrates yet.  I have 4 amazon sword plants, one large melon sword plant, and 5 vallisneria.  Besides lighting it was suggested I use a product called Plant Gro for the iron.  they suggested that I use it per instruction but once per water change.  Since I started cycling I have yet to perform a water change since the ammonia level hasnt risen.  Thus, regarding the product, should I continue to add it or wait until a pwc.  I find the plants slowing going brown and am unsure if they are getting enough iron.  I was using those iron pellets to bury by the roots (forgot name of product) but should I be adding more of the liquid at this point? thanks Ken PS  should I get an iron strip to assess iron levels in the water and if so, what levels are the optimum iron levels for these plants? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 1:27 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Read the instructions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results I always look crossways through the tube. Held back from the paper. Now, on the nitrate test, that way you get 5 ppm, and if you look straight down through the tube you get 20 - which is the right way? I do partial water changes every day, so even with 21 fish in a 20 gallon tank, it seems like the smaller figure is more likely. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results I roll the tube over the card so I can look through the water in the tube and see the range of card colors beneath. Then I hold the whole thing up to the light (we have the daylight fluorescents). I just choose the closest color, or use judgement if the test result color in the tube is in between the card indicators. Nitrate is the only one that was a problem for me. Someone once suggested to keep Nitrates below 20ppm.good for the fish, and you avoid the higher colors on the card that are difficult to distinguish! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Lenny always says this, I did double check my color vision, and it isn't a problem with color vision. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. http://colorvisiont <http://colorvisiontesting.com/ <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> > esting.com/ http://www.toledo- <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp> > bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`B 7.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34542	From: jaypopus	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Cloudy Tank

Hello, I have been having a problem with my tank being cloudy. I have done nothing different other than replacing the bulb in my light strip. I have not added any new fish, plants ect. Has anybody come across this problem before, of know how to get my tank clear? I have done a 25% tank change a day ago and nothing has change. any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jason

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34543	From: Brad Belikove	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into this for me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@...> wrote: > We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in Grouply so > you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my favorite group > messages. > > Here is the link: > http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492 . > > bobbi falank > > > > ========================== > Block Grouply Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>| Mark > as SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> > > Click here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>to block all emails from Grouply, 495 Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood > City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group member who > uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34544	From: jaypopus	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Cloudy Tank

Hello, I have been having a problem with my tank being cloudy. I have done nothing different other than replacing the bulb in my light strip. I have not added any new fish, plants ect. Has anybody come across this problem before, of know how to get my tank clear? I have done a 25% tank change a day ago and nothing has change. any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jason

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34545	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: "Plant Gro" Product

Do you have fish in the tank? You mention "cycling" but do not mention fish. Unless you are following a plan that says not to do PWC's, then they should still be done. For example, in a Walstad Natural Planted Tank, no PWC's are required for a while. When fishless cycling, no PWC's are required. Any other time, I would do normal weekly PWC's Hagen makes a product called Plant Gro Iron Enriched - http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=121&PROD_ID=010767 10020101 Is that what you have? With any product, it's best to follow the directions unless an experienced user suggests otherwise. Who suggested that you use this product? Did they know the details of your tank? Plants have a wide range of "needs", some are easy to grow, low light plants... others are hard to grow, high light and fertilizer and others are everywhere in between. Check out the plant profiles for each of your plants on http://plantgeek.net/plantguide.php Type in the common name in the search box and then figure out which one you have. Just like fish, common names are often misused or used for multiple plant species. I see a couple that use the Amazon Sword name. What size tank do you have? Amazon Sword's, even the smaller of the species, get HUGE. You would need a GIGANTIC tank to handle four of them. I have one in my 65G and I couldn't imagine having four of these monsters. I constantly have to prune the larger leaves that grow to the water line and then start growing across the surface if not pruned. All of the bottled plant additives in the world are not going to make up for having the right plants in the right tank. There are many species of Vallisneria (Genus) as well so do a search on Plantgeek.net for Vallisneria and look over the various profiles to see which species you have. What kind of substrate do you have? How long are the "iron pellets" supposed to last? For plants, just like with our fish, companies will bottle and sell just about anything they can to try and separate you from your money. It's up to you to do the research and decide what is best for your situation. Remember my golden rule... 95% of the bottled stuff on the pet store shelves are NOT needed 95% of the time. Follow that rule and you'll keep a lot more gold in your pockets and have healthy fish and plants. Start keeping a log of things you add to your tank. Without knowing the name of the product you previously added, it's hard to determine if you are overdosing chemicals into the tank. You need to find out what this other product is. I've seen things that are one-time use under plants and I've seen other things that have to be added with varying degrees of frequency, depending on the product. Back to your ammonia... If you have fish, or even if you don't, give us the rest of your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH, etc... or which ever tests you have. The low level of ammonia you are seeing is nothing to be alarmed over yet... but if your plants are dying, then they can quickly foul the water so prune back any dying leaves. We know you haven't done any PWC's. Have you done filter maintenance? I'm not saying you need to... especially if you are fishless cycling but then I don't think you are since you would want an ammonia level when fishless cycling. Anyhow.. you can see there are far more questions than answers right now. Give us more details. In the interim, I would probably do a 25% PWC just to lower the chemical levels and give the plants some fresh water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] "Plant Gro" Product Quick plant question guys, I have a tank 25 days into cycling. Ammonia is starting to build 0-.25 ppm. No nitrites or nitrates yet. I have 4 amazon sword plants, one large melon sword plant, and 5 vallisneria. Besides lighting it was suggested I use a product called Plant Gro for the iron. they suggested that I use it per instruction but once per water change. Since I started cycling I have yet to perform a water change since the ammonia level hasnt risen. Thus, regarding the product, should I continue to add it or wait until a pwc. I find the plants slowing going brown and am unsure if they are getting enough iron. I was using those iron pellets to bury by the roots (forgot name of product) but should I be adding more of the liquid at this point? thanks Ken PS should I get an iron strip to assess iron levels in the water and if so, what levels are the optimum iron levels for these plants? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 1:27 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Read the instructions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results I always look crossways through the tube. Held back from the paper. Now, on the nitrate test, that way you get 5 ppm, and if you look straight down through the tube you get 20 - which is the right way? I do partial water changes every day, so even with 21 fish in a 20 gallon tank, it seems like the smaller figure is more likely. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results I roll the tube over the card so I can look through the water in the tube and see the range of card colors beneath. Then I hold the whole thing up to the light (we have the daylight fluorescents). I just choose the closest color, or use judgement if the test result color in the tube is in between the card indicators. Nitrate is the only one that was a problem for me. Someone once suggested to keep Nitrates below 20ppm.good for the fish, and you avoid the higher colors on the card that are difficult to distinguish! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Lenny always says this, I did double check my color vision, and it isn't a problem with color vision. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Sources and API Master Test Kit Results Color-blindness is common in up to 25% of men, less for women, but it's always a good idea to check your eyes. Here's a couple of preliminary online tests you can do before you decide to spend money on an eye test. http://colorvisiont <http://colorvisiontesting.com/ <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> <http://colorvisiontesting.com/ <http://colorvisiontesting.com/> > > esting.com/ http://www.toledo- <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp> <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp <http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp> > > bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`B 7.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34546	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

Forward the e-mail invite (it is not spam, as spam is defined) to abuse@.... Explain to them, if true, that you do not know this person, and do not wish to receive anything originating from Grouply from them. You can also follow the first link at the end of the message to block all invites from Grouply, follow the second link to Mark it as spam, and follow the third link to block everything from Grouply. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Brad Belikove > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > > I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into this for > me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one > > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@...> wrote: > > > We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in Grouply so > > you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my favorite group > > messages. > > > > Here is the link: > > http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492 . > > > > bobbi falank > > > > > > > > ========================== > > Block Grouply > Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX 6JarQaJsZK > TQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>| Mark > > as > SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja rQaJsZK > TQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> > > > > Click > here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja rQaJsZKT > QvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>to block all emails from Grouply, 495 > Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood > > City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group member who > > uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank

Did you go with more wattage or the same size bulb? Tell us more about what you had and what you now have. Could it be that the water just looks different because there is more light? What color is the cloud? White, green or ??? Also give us more details on the tank and it's history. Size, stocking, maintenance schedule, how long has it been set up, etc. Do you have a master test kit? Give us water parameter test results. This is the first thing that should be done whenever there is anything unusual going on in a tank.. whether it be with the fish, plants or water. Doing a 25% PWC is almost always a good thing but it's not always the cure for everything. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jaypopus Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy Tank Hello, I have been having a problem with my tank being cloudy. I have done nothing different other than replacing the bulb in my light strip. I have not added any new fish, plants ect. Has anybody come across this problem before, of know how to get my tank clear? I have done a 25% tank change a day ago and nothing has change. any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jason

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34548	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

Grouply, while a nuisance, isn't spam in my book... at least not spam from the actual sender since they didn't even know it was being sent out in most cases. It's simply a company taking advantage of the ignorance of people. I have my Gmail filters set to block all Grouply invites... or rather, send them to my spam folder... which is the best thing for you to do if you are bothered by them. I think Grouply has a way on their emails where you can request to no longer be bothered by them also. In fact, it's the top link on your original email below... "Block Grouply". The link is broken in the copy you forwarded with your post but you should still have it on your original email. If you don't want any spam, your best bet is to avoid the internet. If you get on the net and use your email address for anything, you will get on spam lists. Grouply is much less of a bother... almost nothing compared to some of the really big-time spammers that send millions and millions of spam emails a day. They're not selling anything or trying to scam people out of their money... just a website that thought they had a good idea. Because of the need or want of people to be on social networking sites like MySpace, FaceBook, etc., Grouply is just another one of them. Those other sites also send out invites to everyone in someone email address books and IM lists... if the person allows them to. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brad Belikove Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into this for me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@... <mailto:bfalank%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in > Grouply so you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my > favorite group messages. > > Here is the link: > > bobbi falank > > > > ========================== > Block Grouply > Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0yl > RX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D > <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQ > aJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> >| Mark as > SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6 > JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D > <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQ > aJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> > > > Click > here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6 > JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKT QvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> >to block all emails from Grouply, 495 Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group member who uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34549	From: jaypopus	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank

My tank has been established for about 2 years now, and I have never come across this problem. It as the same wattage light that I replaced it with. It is a white cloud. I have a 44 gallon pentagon corner tank. I have a cascade 300 HOB filter and also a millenium 2000 BOB filter and a Rena pump. I have 1 Discus, 3 clown loach, 3 black neon tetras, 1 cory catfish, and 2 rainbow fish. I have had these fish all together for about 1 year now. I will have to get the water parameters this weekend, as I need to get a new master test kit. Thanks for your help! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you go with more wattage or the same size bulb? Tell us more about what > you had and what you now have. Could it be that the water just looks > different because there is more light? > > What color is the cloud? White, green or ??? > > Also give us more details on the tank and it's history. Size, stocking, > maintenance schedule, how long has it been set up, etc. > > Do you have a master test kit? Give us water parameter test results. This > is the first thing that should be done whenever there is anything unusual > going on in a tank.. whether it be with the fish, plants or water. > > Doing a 25% PWC is almost always a good thing but it's not always the cure > for everything. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of jaypopus > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy Tank > > Hello, > > I have been having a problem with my tank being cloudy. I have done nothing > different other than replacing the bulb in my light strip. I have not added > any new fish, plants ect. Has anybody come across this problem before, of > know how to get my tank clear? I have done a 25% tank change a day ago and > nothing has change. any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > > Jason >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34550	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia > but > > then > > > > activated > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > > Carbon > > > also > > > > does > > > > > not remove > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > probably > > just > > > an A- > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink > in > > my old > > > home > > > > and > > > > > I would > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my > Betta > > tank > > > but it > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount > of > > water > > > that > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I > used > > it on > > > my > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set > up > > to dose > > > 1G > > > > or > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > > precise > > > syringe > > > > to > > > > > worry about > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the > Pur > > filter > > > for > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing > 25% > > PWC's > > > on a > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are > the > > worst > > > in > > > > the > > > > > world, I > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta > filter > > for > > > the > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin > Tap > > Water > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a > 55G > > tank > > > and > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you > over > > 3 > > > > years ... > > > > > probably much > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon > filters > > on > > > the > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and > treats > > more > > > > water > > > > > but it's > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've > been > > > getting > > > > the > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would > order it > > > online > > > > from > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't > worth > > paying > > > more > > > > for > > > > > shipping > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your > tap > > water > > > > without > > > > > using the > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you > will > > use > > > in > > > > the > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since > the > > dechlor > > > will > > > > > break the > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the > water > > goes > > > > through > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other > nasty > > things > > > (I'll > > > > > search down > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). > The > > zero > > > > reading > > > > > is right > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through > the > > > filter. I > > > > > don't add > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > > straight > > > tap > > > > water > > > > > and > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if > the > > extra > > > > aeration > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your > dechlor > > > product > > > > (which > > > > > one do you > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > adding > > the > > > dechlor? > > > > If > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and > did > > see > > > the > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > after > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies > that > > your > > > tap > > > > > water is > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical > made > > by > > > binding > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > > alarming, > > > > especially > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > > fully > > > cycled > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is > easily > > > handled by > > > > the > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > > system > > > but > > > > also > > > > > in other > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough > as > > the > > > sickness > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > osmoregulatory > > > > balance > > > > > with the > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also > going > > > through > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape > by > > doing > > > your > > > > > testing and > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > > Goldfish > > > needs > > > > lots > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > This can be > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > lowering > > the > > > water > > > > level > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > > water > > > causes > > > > more > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 > to > > the > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make > it > > and > > > then > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > > sign. She > > > is > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the > bug- > > eyes) > > > is > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was > before I > > > started > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very > tired > > and > > > wants > > > > to > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > patches > > are > > > slowly > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? > Salt > > is > > > still > > > > about > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the > tank > > > yesterday > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille > turn > > out to > > > be a > > > > > male, I guess > > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > > teaspoons > > > per > > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > > goldfish... > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > > adding 3 > > > > teaspoons > > > > > per gallon > > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and > this > > will > > > slowly > > > > > bring the > > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. > Oops.. > > I > > > started > > > > > typing my > > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > > already > > > started > > > > > doing this.. > > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > > water > > > just to > > > > > make sure your > > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the > 15 > > > teaspoons > > > > to > > > > > every five > > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many > people > > use > > > those > > > > 5G > > > > > buckets for > > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G > mark in > > a 5G > > > > bucket, > > > > > fill it to > > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > > salt, > > > etc.) > > > > and > > > > > then slowly > > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning > water > > out, use > > > the > > > > > same mark to > > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for > the > > 2.5G > > > or 3G > > > > > mark is you > > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top > or > > you'll > > > > spill a > > > > > lot when > > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure > your > > tank, > > > L" x > > > > W" x > > > > > H" and > > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it > out > > > yourself. > > > > For > > > > > your > > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. > gallons on > > any > > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is > the > > formula. > > > L" > > > > x W" > > > > > x H" = > > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. > Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > > adverse > > > effect > > > > on the > > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled > anyhow > > so it > > > > > probably just > > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the > fish > > > healthy > > > > was > > > > > more > > > > > > important than worrying about the N- bacteria > right > > now. > > > > Sometimes > > > > > we have to > > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > > completely > > > kills > > > > off > > > > > all of the > > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing > > better (I > > > > always > > > > > hate saying > > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) > but > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34551	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/18/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

Grouply is the spammer, not the person who appears to have sent the message. It used to be that when you signed up for Grouply, you had to give them your Yahoo ID and password. That is no longer required, but when you sign up, the default setting makes it look as though you still need to do that. Once they get your ID and password, Grouply then goes into your address book and sends invites to every address there without your knowledge. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad Belikove To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into this for me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@...> wrote: > We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in Grouply so > you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my favorite group > messages. > > Here is the link: > http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492 . > > bobbi falank > > > > ========================== > Block Grouply Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>| Mark > as SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> > > Click here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>to block all emails from Grouply, 495 Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood > City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group member who > uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34552	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia > but > > then > > > > activated > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > > Carbon > > > also > > > > does > > > > > not remove > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > probably > > just > > > an A- > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink > in > > my old > > > home > > > > and > > > > > I would > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my > Betta > > tank > > > but it > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount > of > > water > > > that > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I > used > > it on > > > my > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set > up > > to dose > > > 1G > > > > or > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > > precise > > > syringe > > > > to > > > > > worry about > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the > Pur > > filter > > > for > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing > 25% > > PWC's > > > on a > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are > the > > worst > > > in > > > > the > > > > > world, I > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta > filter > > for > > > the > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin > Tap > > Water > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a > 55G > > tank > > > and > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you > over > > 3 > > > > years ... > > > > > probably much > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon > filters > > on > > > the > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and > treats > > more > > > > water > > > > > but it's > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've > been > > > getting > > > > the > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would > order it > > > online > > > > from > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't > worth > > paying > > > more > > > > for > > > > > shipping > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your > tap > > water > > > > without > > > > > using the > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you > will > > use > > > in > > > > the > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since > the > > dechlor > > > will > > > > > break the > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the > water > > goes > > > > through > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other > nasty > > things > > > (I'll > > > > > search down > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). > The > > zero > > > > reading > > > > > is right > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through > the > > > filter. I > > > > > don't add > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > > straight > > > tap > > > > water > > > > > and > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if > the > > extra > > > > aeration > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your > dechlor > > > product > > > > (which > > > > > one do you > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > adding > > the > > > dechlor? > > > > If > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and > did > > see > > > the > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > after > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies > that > > your > > > tap > > > > > water is > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical > made > > by > > > binding > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > > alarming, > > > > especially > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > > fully > > > cycled > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is > easily > > > handled by > > > > the > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > > system > > > but > > > > also > > > > > in other > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough > as > > the > > > sickness > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > osmoregulatory > > > > balance > > > > > with the > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also > going > > > through > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape > by > > doing > > > your > > > > > testing and > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > > Goldfish > > > needs > > > > lots > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > This can be > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > lowering > > the > > > water > > > > level > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > > water > > > causes > > > > more > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 > to > > the > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make > it > > and > > > then > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > > sign. She > > > is > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the > bug- > > eyes) > > > is > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was > before I > > > started > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very > tired > > and > > > wants > > > > to > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > patches > > are > > > slowly > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? > Salt > > is > > > still > > > > about > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the > tank > > > yesterday > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille > turn > > out to > > > be a > > > > > male, I guess > > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > > teaspoons > > > per > > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > > goldfish... > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > > adding 3 > > > > teaspoons > > > > > per gallon > > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and > this > > will > > > slowly > > > > > bring the > > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. > Oops.. > > I > > > started > > > > > typing my > > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > > already > > > started > > > > > doing this.. > > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > > water > > > just to > > > > > make sure your > > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the > 15 > > > teaspoons > > > > to > > > > > every five > > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many > people > > use > > > those > > > > 5G > > > > > buckets for > > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G > mark in > > a 5G > > > > bucket, > > > > > fill it to > > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > > salt, > > > etc.) > > > > and > > > > > then slowly > > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning > water > > out, use > > > the > > > > > same mark to > > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for > the > > 2.5G > > > or 3G > > > > > mark is you > > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top > or > > you'll > > > > spill a > > > > > lot when > > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure > your > > tank, > > > L" x > > > > W" x > > > > > H" and > > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it > out > > > yourself. > > > > For > > > > > your > > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. > gallons on > > any > > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is > the > > formula. > > > L" > > > > x W" > > > > > x H" = > > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. > Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > > adverse > > > effect > > > > on the > > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled > anyhow > > so it > > > > > probably just > > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the > fish > > > healthy > > > > was > > > > > more > > > > > > important than worrying about the N- bacteria > right > > now. > > > > Sometimes > > > > > we have to > > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > > completely > > > kills > > > > off > > > > > all of the > > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing > > better (I > > > > always > > > > > hate saying > > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) > but > > every > > > once > > > > in a > > > > > while, we > > > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to > save. > > > Goldfish > > > > have a > > > > > HUGE will > > > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some > > really bad > > > > > conditions > > > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet > store > > that > > > > doesn't > > > > > give proper > > > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, > > cycling, > > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank > on > > his > > > sleigh > > > > for > > > > > you... and > > > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her > name. > > It's > > > > difficult > > > > > to sex > > > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females > are > > > harder to > > > > > tell but males > > > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on > their > > gill > > > covers > > > > and > > > > > the leading > > > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see > these > > for the > > > > first > > > > > time and > > > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the > little > > white > > > bumps > > > > just > > > > > on the > > > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral > fins, > > that > > > means > > > > you > > > > > have a > > > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll > just > > have to > > > > rename > > > > > him to > > > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all > of > > the > > > fish > > > > to > > > > > have found > > > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so > > you're OK > > > > with > > > > > them. LOL > > > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding > > stars/tubercles so > > > > you'll > > > > > know what to > > > > > > look for. > > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these > > goldfish) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so > it > > won't > > > be > > > > 1.0 > > > > > again > > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water > I > > was > > > putting > > > > in. > > > > > I just > > > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was > > thinking > > > it > > > > didn't > > > > > feel like > > > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 > is > > 7.5). > > > > Today > > > > > when I did > > > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference > with > > a > > > ruler > > > > and > > > > > it was > > > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made > sure > > to > > > count > > > > > gallons as I > > > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I > could > > have > > > sworn > > > > my > > > > > dd told me > > > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! > I > > figure > > > > yesterday > > > > > I removed > > > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to > make it > > > 27.<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34553	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank

OK. Without knowing water parameters, we'll be doing a little guessing. When was the last time you tested the water and what were your water parameters like as far as pH, GH, KH, etc.? What is your tank maintenance schedule for vacuuming the gravel, filter maintenance, PWC's (partial water changes), etc.? How are the fish acting? Are they acting the same as they've always acted or any irregularities? Do you have live plants? You mentioned no new fish or plants so I'll presume you do have some live plants. Typically, a white cloudy water issue is due to a bacterial bloom. Sometimes, it's simply the good nitrifying bacteria blooming in the water column until they find a surface home but sometimes they can also be bad bacteria blooming. While higher O2 levels are good for the fish, aerobic bacteria also need O2 so the higher O2 levels could also be causing one or more strains of aerobic bacteria to bloom. They could also be microbubbles. How much lighting do you have on the 44G? What kind of light bulbs and wattage? How long did you have the old lightbulbs? Did you see any pearling on your plants with the new lighting? Fluorescent lighting will start to depreciate dramatically after six months... not necessarily get much dimmer, just not putting out the right kind of light for plants. When upgrading back to new lightbulbs, oftentimes the plants will start pearling... that is, creating O2 bubbles on their leaves. Even if you don't see the pearling, they could be releasing O2 microbubbles. Can you tell if the clouding is clearing up when the lights are off? When the lights are off, the plants will not be putting out O2. Another theory, since you have at least one HOB filter (what is the BOB? I don't recognize that acronym), are you sure that the increased lighting isn't just making the bubbles from the HOB more noticeable? One last note, for this post, while your tank may have worked for the past year or two with your fish, it's not large enough for long term stocking of your current fish. The clown loaches grow to over a foot long, up to 16". While a group of three will do OK, they should be in groups of five or more and be in at least a 100G tank. Even three require this size tank to avoid stunting issues. A 6' long tank would be the minimum size tank for long term success with these fish. As the fish grow, they will become more and more of a burden on the current tanks ecology meaning you'll have to increase the tank, filter and gravel maintenance and PWC's to compensate while planning on a larger tank. As many fish double in length, they actually increase their body mass by eight times. A 12" long Clown Loach isn't just 12 times bigger than a 1" clown loach... it's hundreds of times bigger. I've never seen or done the math on Clown Loaches but for Goldfish, a 12" goldfish would be equal in body mass to over 1,000 1" goldfish but a clown loach doesn't have the same kind of body style as a goldfish so the numbers probably aren't as great. Discus also get quite a large body mass as they grow. They are not just 6" to 8" long, but 6" to 8" all the way around so they are equal in body mass to much larger fish... probably more body mass than a single 16" Clown Loach. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jaypopus Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy Tank My tank has been established for about 2 years now, and I have never come across this problem. It as the same wattage light that I replaced it with. It is a white cloud. I have a 44 gallon pentagon corner tank. I have a cascade 300 HOB filter and also a millenium 2000 BOB filter and a Rena pump. I have 1 Discus, 3 clown loach, 3 black neon tetras, 1 cory catfish, and 2 rainbow fish. I have had these fish all together for about 1 year now. I will have to get the water parameters this weekend, as I need to get a new master test kit. Thanks for your help! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you go with more wattage or the same size bulb? Tell us more about what > you had and what you now have. Could it be that the water just looks > different because there is more light? > > What color is the cloud? White, green or ??? > > Also give us more details on the tank and it's history. Size, stocking, > maintenance schedule, how long has it been set up, etc. > > Do you have a master test kit? Give us water parameter test results. This > is the first thing that should be done whenever there is anything unusual > going on in a tank.. whether it be with the fish, plants or water. > > Doing a 25% PWC is almost always a good thing but it's not always the cure > for everything. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of jaypopus > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy Tank > > Hello, > > I have been having a problem with my tank being cloudy. I have done nothing > different other than replacing the bulb in my light strip. I have not added > any new fish, plants ect. Has anybody come across this problem before, of > know how to get my tank clear? I have done a 25% tank change a day ago and > nothing has change. any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > > Jason >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34554	From: N Taweel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Bug Question

Actually, this tank's gravel was never vaccumed since I established it (I guess two months ago). All the pages you mentioned opened, and I probably have two kinds of worms, and Ostracods. Knowing that they are harmless to fish is enough and satisfying. Thanks for your help. Noura Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@... goldlenny_blogspot Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:21 am (PST) The worms on the glass are likely planaria. Not harmful but an indicator that you might not be vacuuming your gravel enough. They usually start to thrive when there is a lot of detritus/food in the gravel. I have them in my Cherry Shrimp tank since I'm not able to vacuum my gravel very well since I always have so many baby shrimp running around. I consider them part of the overall ecology of the tank and they help clean up.... kind of like snails which are part of nature's clean-up crew. Most fish will not eat planaria but cutting back on feeding will... and then as the planaria die off, the snails will eat their carcasses. I'm not sure about the ones that "seem to have legs" and are much smaller. Let me know if you can view these pages with photos/diagrams of various critters so that you might be able to compare them. Hopefully, you'll be able to access one or more of these sites. http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34555	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

According to my research, this is not true. The individual needs to OK the sending of invites. Grouply does the job of an ordinary mail client by collecting all the mailings from the Yahoo lists you subscribe to. In order to do this, they need your Yahoo username and password. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > > Grouply is the spammer, not the person who appears to have sent the message. It used to > be that when you signed up for Grouply, you had to give them your Yahoo ID and password. > That is no longer required, but when you sign up, the default setting makes it look as though > you still need to do that. Once they get your ID and password, Grouply then goes into your > address book and sends invites to every address there without your knowledge. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brad Belikove > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > > > I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into this for > me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one > > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@...> wrote: > > > We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in Grouply so > > you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my favorite group > > messages. > > > > Here is the link: > > http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492 . > > > > bobbi falank > > > > > > > > ========================== > > Block Grouply > Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX 6JarQaJsZK > TQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>| Mark > > as > SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja rQaJsZK > TQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> > > > > Click > here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja rQaJsZKT > QvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>to block all emails from Grouply, 495 > Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood > > City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group member who > > uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34556	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

The OK to invite everyone, in each Yahoo Group that you belong to, is part of the default settings when joining Grouply... as is giving them your Yahoo ID and password. When Grouply first started up, people HAD to give them their Yahoo ID and password. Now it's an option but in the joining process, a page comes up where they tell you to fill in your Yahoo ID and password and then there's a "Continue" link at the bottom. You can click continue without filling out the info but nothing on the page explains that so many folks still fall for this trick. The only thing that's going to stop Grouply is for people to quit joining it... or at least quit giving up their Yahoo ID's and passwords... but as P. T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute!". The good news is that Grouply isn't scamming people out of money or credit card info... it's just a new spin and an aggressive social networking site... but if people keep any of their banking or credit info in their yahoo account in any manner, one day Grouply will be hacked and then the hackers will have all of the Yahoo ID's and passwords. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP According to my research, this is not true. The individual needs to OK the sending of invites. Grouply does the job of an ordinary mail client by collecting all the mailings from the Yahoo lists you subscribe to. In order to do this, they need your Yahoo username and password. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > > Grouply is the spammer, not the person who appears to have sent the message. It used to > be that when you signed up for Grouply, you had to give them your Yahoo ID and password. > That is no longer required, but when you sign up, the default setting makes it look as though > you still need to do that. Once they get your ID and password, Grouply then goes into your > address book and sends invites to every address there without your knowledge. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brad Belikove > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > > > I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into this for > me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one > > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@... <mailto:bfalank%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in Grouply so > > you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my favorite group > > messages. > > > > Here is the link: > > http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492 <http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492> . > > > > bobbi falank > > > > > > > > ========================== > > Block Grouply > Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX> 6JarQaJsZK > TQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>| Mark > > as > SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja> rQaJsZK > TQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> > > > > Click > here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja> rQaJsZKT > QvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>to block all emails from Grouply, 495 > Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood > > City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group member who > > uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34557	From: N Taweel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Message Reply Note- TO ALL MEMBERS

Guys.. Do you really need to include all previous replies when you answer a post? Check the ONE message below to see what I'm talking about. I'm receiving several 1 MB daily digests because of that. PLEASE USE YOU 'DELETE' BUTTON! THANKS! Noura -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4.2. Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Posted by: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:21 pm (PST) Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia > but > > then > > > > activated > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > > Carbon > > > also > > > > does > > > > > not remove > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > probably > > just > > > an A- > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink > in > > my old > > > home > > > > and > > > > > I would > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my > Betta > > tank > > > but it > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount > of > > water > > > that > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I > used > > it on > > > my > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set > up > > to dose > > > 1G > > > > or > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > > precise > > > syringe > > > > to > > > > > worry about > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the > Pur > > filter > > > for > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing > 25% > > PWC's > > > on a > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are > the > > worst > > > in > > > > the > > > > > world, I > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta > filter > > for > > > the > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin > Tap > > Water > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a > 55G > > tank > > > and > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you > over > > 3 > > > > years ... > > > > > probably much > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon > filters > > on > > > the > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and > treats > > more > > > > water > > > > > but it's > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've > been > > > getting > > > > the > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would > order it > > > online > > > > from > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't > worth > > paying > > > more > > > > for > > > > > shipping > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your > tap > > water > > > > without > > > > > using the > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you > will > > use > > > in > > > > the > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since > the > > dechlor > > > will > > > > > break the > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the > water > > goes > > > > through > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other > nasty > > things > > > (I'll > > > > > search down > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). > The > > zero > > > > reading > > > > > is right > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through > the > > > filter. I > > > > > don't add > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > > straight > > > tap > > > > water > > > > > and > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if > the > > extra > > > > aeration > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your > dechlor > > > product > > > > (which > > > > > one do you > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > adding > > the > > > dechlor? > > > > If > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and > did > > see > > > the > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > after > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies > that > > your > > > tap > > > > > water is > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical > made > > by > > > binding > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > > alarming, > > > > especially > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > > fully > > > cycled > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is > easily > > > handled by > > > > the > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > > system > > > but > > > > also > > > > > in other > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough > as > > the > > > sickness > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > osmoregulatory > > > > balance > > > > > with the > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also > going > > > through > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape > by > > doing > > > your > > > > > testing and > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > > Goldfish > > > needs > > > > lots > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > This can be > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > lowering > > the > > > water > > > > level > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > > water > > > causes > > > > more > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 > to > > the > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make > it > > and > > > then > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > > sign. She > > > is > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the > bug- > > eyes) > > > is > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was > before I > > > started > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very > tired > > and > > > wants > > > > to > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > patches > > are > > > slowly > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? > Salt > > is > > > still > > > > about > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the > tank > > > yesterday > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille > turn > > out to > > > be a > > > > > male, I guess > > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > > teaspoons > > > per > > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > > goldfish... > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > > adding 3 > > > > teaspoons > > > > > per gallon > > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and > this > > will > > > slowly > > > > > bring the > > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. > Oops.. > > I > > > started > > > > > typing my > > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > > already > > > started > > > > > doing this.. > > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > > water > > > just to > > > > > make sure your > > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the > 15 > > > teaspoons > > > > to > > > > > every five > > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many > people > > use > > > those > > > > 5G > > > > > buckets for > > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G > mark in > > a 5G > > > > bucket, > > > > > fill it to > > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > > salt, > > > etc.) > > > > and > > > > > then slowly > > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning > water > > out, use > > > the > > > > > same mark to > > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for > the > > 2.5G > > > or 3G > > > > > mark is you > > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top > or > > you'll > > > > spill a > > > > > lot when > > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure > your > > tank, > > > L" x > > > > W" x > > > > > H" and > > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it > out > > > yourself. > > > > For > > > > > your > > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. > gallons on > > any > > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is > the > > formula. > > > L" > > > > x W" > > > > > x H" = > > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. > Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > > adverse > > > effect > > > > on the > > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't cycled > anyhow > > so it > > > > > probably just > > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting the > fish > > > healthy > > > > was > > > > > more > > > > > > important than worrying about the N- bacteria > right > > now. > > > > Sometimes > > > > > we have to > > > > > > use a stronger antibiotic in a tank which > > completely > > > kills > > > > off > > > > > all of the > > > > > > N-bacteria. It's just part of fish keeping. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see the goldfish seem to be doing > > better (I > > > > always > > > > > hate saying > > > > > > that.. like the old "Knock on wood" hex. LOL) > but > > every > > > once > > > > in a > > > > > while, we > > > > > > are able to save some of the fish we try to > save. > > > Goldfish > > > > have a > > > > > HUGE will > > > > > > to live and unfortunately have to survive some > > really bad > > > > > conditions > > > > > > sometimes, when newbie's get them from a pet > store > > that > > > > doesn't > > > > > give proper > > > > > > goldfish care information as far as tank size, > > cycling, > > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we just have to hope Santa has a BIG tank > on > > his > > > sleigh > > > > for > > > > > you... and > > > > > > the goldfish! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope Lucille doesn't get offended by her > name. > > It's > > > > difficult > > > > > to sex > > > > > > goldfish until they start to mature and females > are > > > harder to > > > > > tell but males > > > > > > will get breeding stars (aka tubercles) on > their > > gill > > > covers > > > > and > > > > > the leading > > > > > > rays of their pectoral fins. Many folks see > these > > for the > > > > first > > > > > time and > > > > > > think.. OH NO.. ICH!.. but if you see the > little > > white > > > bumps > > > > just > > > > > on the > > > > > > gill covers and leading rays of the pectoral > fins, > > that > > > means > > > > you > > > > > have a > > > > > > male goldfish. If Lucille gets them, you'll > just > > have to > > > > rename > > > > > him to > > > > > > Lucky... which is also a suitable name (for all > of > > the > > > fish > > > > to > > > > > have found > > > > > > you!). The other two names can go either way so > > you're OK > > > > with > > > > > them. LOL > > > > > > Here's some pictures of the breeding > > stars/tubercles so > > > > you'll > > > > > know what to > > > > > > look for. > > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html> > > > > > > > (You'll also see the > > > > > > black melanophore migration on some of these > > goldfish) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:16 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 4 of salt treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ammonia was .50 at 2PM, so did PWC at 11PM so > it > > won't > > > be > > > > 1.0 > > > > > again > > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > > - Yesterday I didn't count how many G of water > I > > was > > > putting > > > > in. > > > > > I just > > > > > > treated each gallon with 1T of salt, but I was > > thinking > > > it > > > > didn't > > > > > feel like > > > > > > I had put at least 7 gallons back in (25% of 30 > is > > 7.5). > > > > Today > > > > > when I did > > > > > > the PWC I measured the water height difference > with > > a > > > ruler > > > > and > > > > > it was > > > > > > exactly 1/4 of a tank that I removed. I made > sure > > to > > > count > > > > > gallons as I > > > > > > refilled and it came to exactly 5 gallons! I > could > > have > > > sworn > > > > my > > > > > dd told me > > > > > > it was a 30 G tank. I overdosed with the salt! > I > > figure > > > > yesterday > > > > > I removed > > > > > > 1/4 of the 30T or 7.5T, then replaced 5T to > make it > > > 27.5T. > > > > > Tonight I removed > > > > > > 1/4 of that or about 6.9T and replaced 5T to > make > > 25.6T. > > > The > > > > fish > > > > > seem to be > > > > > > handling it ok, but tomorrow I'll do the next > PWC > > and > > > just > > > > not > > > > > add any salt > > > > > > back and that should get it within an > acceptable > > level > > > for a > > > > 20 > > > > > gallon tank. > > > > > > I hope I haven't killed off any good bacteria > with > > the > > > extra > > > > > salt. It's > > > > > > definitely killed off a lot of the white stuff > on > > the > > > > goldfish. > > > > > > -midnight water tests: pH:7.5; Ammonia:.25 > > Nitrite: .25 > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 10 > > > > > > -baseline (0 hours - water is from tap through > > Brita > > > filter): > > > > > pH:7.4; > > > > > > Ammonia:0; Nitrite: 0; Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have the API Master test kit. For the > tank > > > readings, > > > > the > > > > > pH usually > > > > > > maxes out the regular test range (7.6), but > reads > > lower > > > than > > > > 7.6 > > > > > and > > > > > > slightly higher than the bottom value of the > high > > range > > > test > > > > > (7.4) so I'm > > > > > > guessing around 7.5 for the pH. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:15 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have the API Master Test Kit now? API > makes > > a > > > > combination > > > > > pack GH and > > > > > > KH test kits for around $7.00. Until you get > them, > > having > > > the > > > > > four basics > > > > > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) will do fine > for > > > goldfish > > > > > since your pH > > > > > > is 7.5, it usually means you have enough > hardness > > in your > > > > water. > > > > > As your > > > > > > tank matures, if the pH doesn't drop much > between > > PWC's, > > > then > > > > the > > > > > GH and KH > > > > > > will not be as important. If you are seeing big > > drops in > > > pH > > > > after > > > > > a week, > > > > > > then you could have low GH and KH levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that pH always starts with a lower case p > and > > then a > > > > capital > > > > > H since it > > > > > > stands for "power of Hydrogen" but GH and KH > are > > always > > > > > capitalized for > > > > > > General Hardness (GH - sometimes referred to as > > > Alkalinity in > > > > > some test > > > > > > kits) and Carbonate Hardness (KH). The reason > for > > the KH > > > > instead > > > > > of CH is > > > > > > that this testing scale is based on German > degrees > > of > > > > hardness > > > > > and Karbonat > > > > > > Haerte is the German translation for Carbonate > > Hardness, > > > thus > > > > KH. > > > > > A German > > > > > > degree of hardness is equal to around 18 ppm > > (actually > > > 17.85 > > > > but > > > > > 18 for > > > > > > simplicity) in some other test kits so if you > see > > GH as > > > > 180ppm, > > > > > that would > > > > > > equate to a GH of 10. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34558	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Deb, It appears you may have missed my point on this seemingly choking behavior, even though I did indicate that fish can sometimes have trouble adjusting from one food to another (rarely do they have much trouble adjusting, and rarely is this seen as choking). Perhaps I have not expressed the major portion of my point clearly enough, or with enough emphasis. The behavior you are seeing is solely and particulary indicative of this fish slowly but surely refusing to eat because of the effects of this infection of its intestines, even though one part of its brain tells it to eat (or at least, try to eat) as it may be hungry. As it does try to eat, the infection's effects causes the fish to spit it back out -- to us appearing as if the food is distasteful. This will worsen, as I've indicated in my previous reply, to the extent that the fish will show no interest at all in eating, unless the infection is cleared up. This is a MANIFESTATION of digestive system infections, and WILL ONLY BE SEEN as a resulting behavior to these infections. It is OFTEN SEEN as part of the behavior in internal Hexamita when such infections can affect other species. With hopeful success, the medication will soon clear this up, as soon as you can start administrating it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > osmoregulatory issues. > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping > motion? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's > PWC) > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will > act in the manner you're describing. > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > (depending on lighting) > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from > the Tetra flakes? > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure > how much more CB can take. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles > Fungus Clear added): > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a > bit. > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC 11pm > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity--- -- > ---------------- > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > column, it > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > bladders, as > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > would > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > being a > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > bacterial. > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > Hexamita, > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > and > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > they > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > they > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > infections > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > impossible > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > microscope). > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > clearing up > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > medications > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > Since > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > the > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > fungus > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > (unless you > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > shipped > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > another 4 > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > should > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > normal > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > an > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > remove it. > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > treatment > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > in > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > the > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > find > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > contact > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > (treats > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > $32.74 > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > effective as > > of 12/10/08. > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > mention for > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > a > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > can use > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > pond > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > priced > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > that's > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > One > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > Tabs) or > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > Both > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > for > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > little > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > also > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > source > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > Jungles > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > bottom > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > choice, > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > too > > much. > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > some is > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > see > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > food > > to Omega One pellets) > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > not > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > has > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > most > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > shiny, > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > probably > > a sign of healing? > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > is set > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > scraped > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > concerned > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > related > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > instructions > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > a 25% > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > put the > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > before we > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > sales. > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > stripped > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > slate- > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > what I'd > > do without you guys. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > as > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > discouraging. > > If, by > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > surface > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > glass > > in > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > at the > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > not > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > by the > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > bouyed > > up at > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > bladders > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > choice > > rather > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > possible > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > on > > their > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > and > > is > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > being > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > written > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > and > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > something > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > temperature? > > Are > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > apparent? > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > you > > have > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > extent as > > to > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > may > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > the > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > up to > > 55 > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > them. > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > as > > again > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > support) > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > bond/seal > > between > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > yet > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > and > > Lenny > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > joints, > > you > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > choice) > > in re- > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > environment > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > reptile > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > to be > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > fish > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > elevated > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > all > > the medical > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > in > > the hospital > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > to be > > absorbed > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > out > > by their > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > which > > is > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > at the > > surface, > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > return. The > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > All > > the agitation > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > there > > is more gas > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > waves. > > The up/down > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > of a > > tank > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > since they > > do not > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > I > > guess if it was > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > removing all the > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > a > > price. I've > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > that > > used to have > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > year. > > Tell them > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > to > > about $25.00. > > > ;-) > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > that > > shouldn't > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > plastic > > of the same > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > sure > > the front > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > someone > > removed that > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > where > > the glass had > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > over 400 > > pounds of > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > let me > > know. I > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > Fungus > > Clear. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > Jungle > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > bottom. > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > (do > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > CB > > also > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > there. > > And > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > up > > every > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > problem > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > wouldn't they > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > the > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > Craigslist > > for > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > resealing, > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > out > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > the > > plastic > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > accept a > > fish > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > I see > > that > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > this > > tank > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > see > > how I > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > boxes to > > see > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > only 18G > > of > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > more > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > returned 3G > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > 3G, but > > only > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > removing > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > of > > water > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > nitrite > > levels > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > than". > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > kit a > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > anywhere. > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > dragging. > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > Clear > > starts > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > there's > > only > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > bit > > won't > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > from > > his > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this > subject, I > > find > > > the > > > > need to question your present salt content and your > methods > > > with > > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these > levels -- > > only > > > if to > > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to > see > > > that "Carol > > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has > improved > > > even > > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to > be > > quite > > > as well > > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will > not > > see > > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > > recuperating. > > > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it > was at > > 3.7 > > > tsp > > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > > changes > > > since. > > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would > have > > > reduced > > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > > gallon. > > > If > > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, > this > > would > > > now > > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% > PWC's > > > since last > > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm > now > > > wondering if > > > > even that level was correct in your method of > figuring. > > Maybe > > > you > > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would > seem that > > > your > > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > > especially > > > with > > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning > these > > results > > > as > > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips > (which > > can > > > often > > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether > the > > > reagents may > > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > > Jungles' > > > Fungus > > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit > still > > not > > > as > > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately > 3.4tsp/G > > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs > since > > > yesterday's > > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: > <.25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue > what it > > is. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that > part and > > > missed it > > > > in > > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your > source > > > water is > > > > not > > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that > is not > > as > > > > injurious > > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. > While > > we > > > strive > > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as > we > > can), > > > there is > > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most > fish as > > > that's > > > > still > > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm > shows > > your > > > tank > > > > is > > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or > more > > > frequent > > > > PWC's > > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > > straightened out > > > > you > > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at > least > > ones > > > that the > > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind > adding some > > to > > > their > > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part > of > > their > > > food, > > > > and > > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as > part > > of > > > their > > > > diet > > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- > term if > > you > > > add > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > > medications > > > to > > > > water > > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest > changing > > out > > > enough > > > > water > > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per > gallon. > > > You're not > > > > too > > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may > not > > make > > > that > > > > much > > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful > minimum > > of 3 > > > tsp > > > > per > > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > > tolerable > > > > range. > > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of > salt, > > > even > > > > though > > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended > for them > > on > > > some > > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish > is > > > approaching, > > > > if > > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt > levels. > > > Cyprinidae > > > > are > > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > > toleration -- > > > they > > > > can > > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add > medications > > > while > > > > there > > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as > some > > > medications > > > > (and > > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) > contain > > salt as > > > part > > > > of > > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you > may > > add > > > > additional > > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- > checking this > > > factor > > > > will > > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level > during > > > > treatments. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the > zeros were > > > baseline > > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank > seems to > > be > > > cycling > > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as > that > > likes > > > to > > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I > also > > asked > > > my dd > > > > and > > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my > memory > > that > > > was > > > > off. > > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and > lowering the > > > saline > > > > with > > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > > 3.7tsp/G > > > in the > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before > using > > one > > > of > > > > the > > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting > more > > > normal > > > > today, > > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank > at the > > > moment. I > > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding > further > > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a > fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' > plight > > now > > > for a > > > > > number of > > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment > would > > > eliminate this > > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and > undoubtedly > > did > > > to > > > > some > > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these > fish's > > health > > > in > > > > their > > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to > go in > > > reverse, > > > > it > > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, > at > > least > > > to me > > > > > (unless > > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > > capacity > > > at 20 > > > > > gallons > > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd > has > > come up > > > with > > > > 30 > > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, > perhaps > > > you'd > > > > like to > > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are > so > > that > > > we can > > > > get > > > > > a > > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time > you > > had 90 > > > tsp > > > > of > > > > > salt > > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, > that > > would > > > equate > > > > to 4 > > > > > 1/2 > > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than > 0.3% > > of > > > salt in > > > > > their > > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to > 2.4 tsp > > per > > > > gallon > > > > > (not 3 > > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can > tolerate > > more > > > I > > > > felt it > > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the > time > > (note: > > > this > > > > > measure > > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all > fish do > > have > > > their > > > > > limits > > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and > some > > > Cichlids > > > > > seeming to > > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish > (Cory's, > > etc.) > > > > having > > > > > the > > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish > included) > > being > > > > somewhere in > > > > > the > > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > > establish > > > just > > > > what > > > > > your > > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, > it > > could > > > act > > > > > adversely > > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing > further > > > advancement of > > > > the > > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level > of sale > > > affecting > > > > > your > > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live > plants. I > > know > > > this > > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for > the > > benefit > > > of > > > > other > > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the > tank > > is > > > done > > > > > gradually > > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most > aquatic > > plants > > > will > > > > > tolerate > > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; > Cabomba, > > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > > readings > > > of > > > > several > > > > > days > > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to > 0.5 ppm > > and > > > both > > > > your > > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm > (indicating > > your > > > cycle > > > > > suddenly > > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the > next > > day > > > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm > and > > your > > > > nitrate > > > > > was > > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to > 0.25 > > ppm). > > > A > > > > > discrepency > > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of > erroneous > > test > > > result > > > > (or > > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing > the > > issue, > > > I'd > > > > suggest > > > > > you > > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest > this > > > disease. > > > > > Those > > > > > > medications would include any of the > following: > > > A.P.I.'s > > > > Furan > > > > > II, > > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's > Fungus > > Clear > > > Tank > > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and > Furadolazone as > > their > > > main > > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the > Rid- > > > Ich/Malachite > > > > > Green > > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, > but not > > > all, > > > > Fungal > > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is > acting > > > somewhat > > > > weak > > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming > with > > Lucille > > > and > > > > > generally > > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > > watching > > > the > > > > what we > > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > > hasn't > > > improved > > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one > side > > and > > > seems > > > > to be > > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas > at the > > > base of > > > > her > > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of > them, > > > because CB > > > > seems > > > > > a > > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra > food > > they're > > > > getting I > > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so > save > > your > > > money > > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > bigger > > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > > lowering > > > the > > > > water a > > > > > > little (or > > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water > fall > > to > > > create > > > > > enough > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > > exchange. > > > That > > > > and > > > > > live > > > > > > plants are > > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up > and the > > CO2 > > > levels > > > > > down. > > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > > Hopefully > > > Raven > > > > will > > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on > > the > > > right > > > > side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's > reading, and > > I > > > didn't > > > > do a > > > > > PWC > > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered > the > > water > > > level > > > > so > > > > > I > > > > > > can see > > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to > the > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future > water > > > changes. I'll > > > > > look > > > > > > into an > > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > > budget > > > right > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the > ammonia > > but > > > then > > > > > activated > > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be > expected. A- > > > Carbon > > > > also > > > > > does > > > > > > not remove > > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > > probably > > > just > > > > an A- > > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my > sink > > in > > > my old > > > > home > > > > > and > > > > > > I would > > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on > my > > Betta > > > tank > > > > but it > > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the > amount > > of > > > water > > > > that > > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The > reason I > > used > > > it on > > > > my > > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are > not set > > up > > > to dose > > > > 1G > > > > > or > > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a > very > > > precise > > > > syringe > > > > > to > > > > > > worry about > > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used > the > > Pur > > > filter > > > > for > > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger > water > > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be > doing > > 25% > > > PWC's > > > > on a > > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports > are > > the > > > worst > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > world, I > > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the > Britta > > filter > > > for > > > > the > > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > > would last > > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of > TopFin > > Tap > > > Water > > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you > have a > > 55G > > > tank > > > > and > > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last > you > > over > > > 3 > > > > > years ... > > > > > > probably much > > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the > carbon > > filters > > > on > > > > the > > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive > and > > treats > > > more > > > > > water > > > > > > but it's > > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so > I've > > been > > > > getting > > > > > the > > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I > would > > order it > > > > online > > > > > from > > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs > aren't > > worth > > > paying > > > > more > > > > > for > > > > > > shipping > > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on > your > > tap > > > water > > > > > without > > > > > > using the > > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely > what you > > will > > > use > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor > since > > the > > > dechlor > > > > will > > > > > > break the > > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry > a > > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on > > the > > > right > > > > side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that > the > > water > > > goes > > > > > through > > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and > other > > nasty > > > things > > > > (I'll > > > > > > search down > > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it > somewhere.). > > The > > > zero > > > > > reading > > > > > > is right > > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes > through > > the > > > > filter. I > > > > > > don't add > > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better > to use > > > straight > > > > tap > > > > > water > > > > > > and > > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see > if > > the > > > extra > > > > > aeration > > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add > your > > dechlor > > > > product > > > > > (which > > > > > > one do you > > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 > hour > > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > > adding > > > the > > > > dechlor? > > > > > If > > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding > dechlor and > > did > > > see > > > > the > > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > > after > > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much > verifies > > that > > > your > > > > tap > > > > > > water is > > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a > chemical > > made > > > by > > > > binding > > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia > seems > > > alarming, > > > > > especially > > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% > PWC's on a > > > fully > > > > cycled > > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which > is > > easily > > > > handled by > > > > > the > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the > filter > > > system > > > > but > > > > > also > > > > > > in other > > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as > rough > > as > > > the > > > > sickness > > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > > osmoregulatory > > > > > balance > > > > > > with the > > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are > also > > going > > > > through > > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good > shape > > by > > > doing > > > > your > > > > > > testing and > > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the > tank? > > > Goldfish > > > > needs > > > > > lots > > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will > become > > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > > This can be > > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > > lowering > > > the > > > > water > > > > > level > > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter > returning > > > water > > > > causes > > > > > more > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will > increase > > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > > at the > > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and > add O2 > > to > > > the > > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals > will make > > it > > > and > > > > then > > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to > > > articles > > > > > referenced > > > > > > above > > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf > > > Of > > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .5ppm; > > > Nitrite: > > > > 0ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's > a good > > > sign. She > > > > is > > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no > fresh > > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish > with the > > bug- > > > eyes) > > > > is > > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB > was > > before I > > > > started > > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems > very > > tired > > > and > > > > wants > > > > > to > > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > > patches > > > are > > > > slowly > > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the > Nitrates? > > Salt > > > is > > > > still > > > > > about > > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt > > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure > the > > tank > > > > yesterday > > > > > and > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: > > > > 0ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If > Lucille > > turn > > > out to > > > > be a > > > > > > male, I guess > > > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for > Lucille > > > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% > (5 > > > teaspoons > > > > per > > > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to > kill the > > > > goldfish... > > > > > and > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by > only > > > adding 3 > > > > > teaspoons > > > > > > per gallon > > > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, > and > > this > > > will > > > > slowly > > > > > > bring the > > > > > > > salinity level back down very close to > 0.3%. > > Oops.. > > > I > > > > started > > > > > > typing my > > > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. > You > > > already > > > > started > > > > > > doing this.. > > > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to > replacement > > > water > > > > just to > > > > > > make sure your > > > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with > adding the > > 15 > > > > teaspoons > > > > > to > > > > > > every five > > > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why > many > > people > > > use > > > > those > > > > > 5G > > > > > > buckets for > > > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or > 3G > > mark in > > > a 5G > > > > > bucket, > > > > > > fill it to > > > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any > meds, > > > salt, > > > > etc.) > > > > > and > > > > > > then slowly > > > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When > siphoning > > water > > > out, use > > > > the > > > > > > same mark to > > > > > > > know how much you are removing. The > reason for > > the > > > 2.5G > > > > or 3G > > > > > > mark is you > > > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to > the top > > or > > > you'll > > > > > spill a > > > > > > lot when > > > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, > measure > > your > > > tank, > > > > L" x > > > > > W" x > > > > > > H" and > > > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can > figure it > > out > > > > yourself. > > > > > For > > > > > > your > > > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. > > gallons on > > > any > > > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here > is > > the > > > formula. > > > > L" > > > > > x W" > > > > > > x H" = > > > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. > > Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have > an > > > adverse > > > > effect > > > > > on the > > > > > > > nitrifying bacteria, your tank wasn't > cycled > > anyhow > > > so it > > > > > > probably just > > > > > > > slowed things down for you... but getting > the > > fish > > > > he<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34559	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Message Reply Note- TO ALL MEMBERS

Noura, Since I only keep the messages of interest to me, yes, I do need the thread to refer to if I reply to the message, particularly if there are already replies in the thread to which I may be referencing in my reply. Do note, however, I am deleting all the stuff you included to make your point, and a large digest file. Frankly, I see no need for anyone to receive a digest file these days. At one time they did serve a purpose, but that time has long passed. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N > Taweel > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Message Reply Note- TO ALL MEMBERS > > Guys.. Do you really need to include all previous replies when you answer a post? Check the > ONE message below to see what I'm talking about. > I'm receiving several 1 MB daily digests because of that. > PLEASE USE YOU 'DELETE' BUTTON! > > THANKS! > Noura > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34560	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

I understood that the parasites are probably what is causing the choking behavior. Lenny had asked if what I was seeing might have been gulping or heavy breathing. I was just clarifying the difference. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:48 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Deb, It appears you may have missed my point on this seemingly choking behavior, even though I did indicate that fish can sometimes have trouble adjusting from one food to another (rarely do they have much trouble adjusting, and rarely is this seen as choking). Perhaps I have not expressed the major portion of my point clearly enough, or with enough emphasis. The behavior you are seeing is solely and particulary indicative of this fish slowly but surely refusing to eat because of the effects of this infection of its intestines, even though one part of its brain tells it to eat (or at least, try to eat) as it may be hungry. As it does try to eat, the infection's effects causes the fish to spit it back out -- to us appearing as if the food is distasteful. This will worsen, as I've indicated in my previous reply, to the extent that the fish will show no interest at all in eating, unless the infection is cleared up. This is a MANIFESTATION of digestive system infections, and WILL ONLY BE SEEN as a resulting behavior to these infections. It is OFTEN SEEN as part of the behavior in internal Hexamita when such infections can affect other species. With hopeful success, the medication will soon clear this up, as soon as you can start administrating it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > osmoregulatory issues. > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping > motion? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's > PWC) > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will > act in the manner you're describing. > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > (depending on lighting) > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from > the Tetra flakes? > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure > how much more CB can take. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles > Fungus Clear added): > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a > bit. > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC 11pm > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity--- -- > ---------------- > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > column, it > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > bladders, as > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > would > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > being a > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > bacterial. > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > Hexamita, > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > and > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > they > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > they > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > infections > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > impossible > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > microscope). > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > clearing up > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > medications > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > Since > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > the > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > fungus > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > (unless you > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > shipped > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > another 4 > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > should > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > normal > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > an > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > remove it. > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > treatment > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > in > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > the > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > find > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > contact > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > (treats > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > $32.74 > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > effective as > > of 12/10/08. > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > mention for > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > a > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > can use > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > pond > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > priced > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > that's > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > One > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > Tabs) or > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > Both > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > for > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > little > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > also > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > source > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > Jungles > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > bottom > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > choice, > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > too > > much. > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > some is > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > see > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > food > > to Omega One pellets) > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > not > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > has > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > most > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > shiny, > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > probably > > a sign of healing? > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > is set > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > scraped > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > concerned > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > related > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > instructions > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > a 25% > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > put the > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > before we > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > sales. > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > stripped > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > slate- > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > what I'd > > do without you guys. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > as > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > discouraging. > > If, by > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > surface > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > glass > > in > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > at the > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > not > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > by the > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > bouyed > > up at > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > bladders > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > choice > > rather > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > possible > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > on > > their > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > and > > is > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > being > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > written > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > and > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > something > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > temperature? > > Are > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > apparent? > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > you > > have > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > extent as > > to > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > may > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > the > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > up to > > 55 > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > them. > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > as > > again > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > support) > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > bond/seal > > between > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > yet > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > and > > Lenny > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > joints, > > you > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > choice) > > in re- > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > environment > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > reptile > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > to be > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > fish > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > elevated > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > all > > the medical > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > in > > the hospital > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > to be > > absorbed > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > out > > by their > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > which > > is > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > at the > > surface, > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > return. The > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > All > > the agitation > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > there > > is more gas > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > waves. > > The up/down > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > of a > > tank > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > since they > > do not > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > I > > guess if it was > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > removing all the > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > a > > price. I've > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > that > > used to have > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > year. > > Tell them > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > to > > about $25.00. > > > ;-) > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > that > > shouldn't > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > plastic > > of the same > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > sure > > the front > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > someone > > removed that > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > where > > the glass had > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > over 400 > > pounds of > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > let me > > know. I > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > Fungus > > Clear. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > Jungle > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > bottom. > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > (do > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > CB > > also > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > there. > > And > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > up > > every > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > problem > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > wouldn't they > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > the > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > Craigslist > > for > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > resealing, > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > out > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > the > > plastic > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > accept a > > fish > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > I see > > that > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > this > > tank > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > see > > how I > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > boxes to > > see > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > only 18G > > of > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > more > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > returned 3G > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > 3G, but > > only > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > removing > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > of > > water > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > nitrite > > levels > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > than". > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > kit a > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > anywhere. > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > dragging. > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > Clear > > starts > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > there's > > only > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > bit > > won't > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > from > > his > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this > subject, I > > find > > > the > > > > need to question your present salt content and your > methods > > > with > > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these > levels -- > > only > > > if to > > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to > see > > > that "Carol > > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has > improved > > > even > > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to > be > > quite > > > as well > > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will > not > > see > > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > > recuperating. > > > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it > was at > > 3.7 > > > tsp > > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > > changes > > > since. > > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would > have > > > reduced > > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > > gallon. > > > If > > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, > this > > would > > > now > > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% > PWC's > > > since last > > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm > now > > > wondering if > > > > even that level was correct in your method of > figuring. > > Maybe > > > you > > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would > seem that > > > your > > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > > especially > > > with > > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning > these > > results > > > as > > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips > (which > > can > > > often > > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether > the > > > reagents may > > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > > Jungles' > > > Fungus > > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit > still > > not > > > as > > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately > 3.4tsp/G > > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs > since > > > yesterday's > > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: > <.25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue > what it > > is. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that > part and > > > missed it > > > > in > > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your > source > > > water is > > > > not > > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that > is not > > as > > > > injurious > > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. > While > > we > > > strive > > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as > we > > can), > > > there is > > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most > fish as > > > that's > > > > still > > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm > shows > > your > > > tank > > > > is > > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or > more > > > frequent > > > > PWC's > > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > > straightened out > > > > you > > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at > least > > ones > > > that the > > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind > adding some > > to > > > their > > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part > of > > their > > > food, > > > > and > > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as > part > > of > > > their > > > > diet > > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- > term if > > you > > > add > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > > medications > > > to > > > > water > > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest > changing > > out > > > enough > > > > water > > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per > gallon. > > > You're not > > > > too > > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may > not > > make > > > that > > > > much > > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful > minimum > > of 3 > > > tsp > > > > per > > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > > tolerable > > > > range. > > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of > salt, > > > even > > > > though > > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended > for them > > on > > > some > > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish > is > > > approaching, > > > > if > > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt > levels. > > > Cyprinidae > > > > are > > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > > toleration -- > > > they > > > > can > > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add > medications > > > while > > > > there > > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as > some > > > medications > > > > (and > > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) > contain > > salt as > > > part > > > > of > > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you > may > > add > > > > additional > > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- > checking this > > > factor > > > > will > > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level > during > > > > treatments. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the > zeros were > > > baseline > > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank > seems to > > be > > > cycling > > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as > that > > likes > > > to > > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I > also > > asked > > > my dd > > > > and > > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my > memory > > that > > > was > > > > off. > > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and > lowering the > > > saline > > > > with > > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > > 3.7tsp/G > > > in the > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before > using > > one > > > of > > > > the > > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting > more > > > normal > > > > today, > > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank > at the > > > moment. I > > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding > further > > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a > fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' > plight > > now > > > for a > > > > > number of > > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment > would > > > eliminate this > > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and > undoubtedly > > did > > > to > > > > some > > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these > fish's > > health > > > in > > > > their > > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to > go in > > > reverse, > > > > it > > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, > at > > least > > > to me > > > > > (unless > > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > > capacity > > > at 20 > > > > > gallons > > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd > has > > come up > > > with > > > > 30 > > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, > perhaps > > > you'd > > > > like to > > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are > so > > that > > > we can > > > > get > > > > > a > > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time > you > > had 90 > > > tsp > > > > of > > > > > salt > > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, > that > > would > > > equate > > > > to 4 > > > > > 1/2 > > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than > 0.3% > > of > > > salt in > > > > > their > > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to > 2.4 tsp > > per > > > > gallon > > > > > (not 3 > > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can > tolerate > > more > > > I > > > > felt it > > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the > time > > (note: > > > this > > > > > measure > > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all > fish do > > have > > > their > > > > > limits > > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and > some > > > Cichlids > > > > > seeming to > > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish > (Cory's, > > etc.) > > > > having > > > > > the > > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish > included) > > being > > > > somewhere in > > > > > the > > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > > establish > > > just > > > > what > > > > > your > > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, > it > > could > > > act > > > > > adversely > > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing > further > > > advancement of > > > > the > > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level > of sale > > > affecting > > > > > your > > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live > plants. I > > know > > > this > > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for > the > > benefit > > > of > > > > other > > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the > tank > > is > > > done > > > > > gradually > > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most > aquatic > > plants > > > will > > > > > tolerate > > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; > Cabomba, > > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > > readings > > > of > > > > several > > > > > days > > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to > 0.5 ppm > > and > > > both > > > > your > > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm > (indicating > > your > > > cycle > > > > > suddenly > > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the > next > > day > > > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm > and > > your > > > > nitrate > > > > > was > > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to > 0.25 > > ppm). > > > A > > > > > discrepency > > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of > erroneous > > test > > > result > > > > (or > > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing > the > > issue, > > > I'd > > > > suggest > > > > > you > > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest > this > > > disease. > > > > > Those > > > > > > medications would include any of the > following: > > > A.P.I.'s > > > > Furan > > > > > II, > > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's > Fungus > > Clear > > > Tank > > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and > Furadolazone as > > their > > > main > > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the > Rid- > > > Ich/Malachite > > > > > Green > > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, > but not > > > all, > > > > Fungal > > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is > acting > > > somewhat > > > > weak > > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming > with > > Lucille > > > and > > > > > generally > > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > > watching > > > the > > > > what we > > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > > hasn't > > > improved > > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one > side > > and > > > seems > > > > to be > > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas > at the > > > base of > > > > her > > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of > them, > > > because CB > > > > seems > > > > > a > > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra > food > > they're > > > > getting I > > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so > save > > your > > > money > > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > bigger > > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > > lowering > > > the > > > > water a > > > > > > little (or > > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water > fall > > to > > > create > > > > > enough > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > > exchange. > > > That > > > > and > > > > > live > > > > > > plants are > > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up > and the > > CO2 > > > levels > > > > > down. > > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > > Hopefully > > > Raven > > > > will > > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on > > the > > > right > > > > side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's > reading, and > > I > > > didn't > > > > do a > > > > > PWC > > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered > the > > water > > > level > > > > so > > > > > I > > > > > > can see > > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to > the > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future > water > > > changes. I'll > > > > > look > > > > > > into an > > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > > budget > > > right > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the > ammonia > > but > > > then > > > > > activated > > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be > expected. A- > > > Carbon > > > > also > > > > > does > > > > > > not remove > > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > > probably > > > just > > > > an A- > > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my > sink > > in > > > my old > > > > home > > > > > and > > > > > > I would > > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on > my > > Betta > > > tank > > > > but it > > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the > amount > > of > > > water > > > > that > > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The > reason I > > used > > > it on > > > > my > > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are > not set > > up > > > to dose > > > > 1G > > > > > or > > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a > very > > > precise > > > > syringe > > > > > to > > > > > > worry about > > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used > the > > Pur > > > filter > > > > for > > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger > water > > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be > doing > > 25% > > > PWC's > > > > on a > > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports > are > > the > > > worst > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > world, I > > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the > Britta > > filter > > > for > > > > the > > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > > would last > > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of > TopFin > > Tap > > > Water > > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you > have a > > 55G > > > tank > > > > and > > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last > you > > over > > > 3 > > > > > years ... > > > > > > probably much > > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the > carbon > > filters > > > on > > > > the > > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive > and > > treats > > > more > > > > > water > > > > > > but it's > > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so > I've > > been > > > > getting > > > > > the > > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I > would > > order it > > > > online > > > > > from > > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs > aren't > > worth > > > paying > > > > more > > > > > for > > > > > > shipping > > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on > your > > tap > > > water > > > > > without > > > > > > using the > > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely > what you > > will > > > use > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor > since > > the > > > dechlor > > > > will > > > > > > break the > > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry > a > > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on > > the > > > right > > > > side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that > the > > water > > > goes > > > > > through > > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and > other > > nasty > > > things > > > > (I'll > > > > > > search down > > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it > somewhere.). > > The > > > zero > > > > > reading > > > > > > is right > > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes > through > > the > > > > filter. I > > > > > > don't add > > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better > to use > > > straight > > > > tap > > > > > water > > > > > > and > > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see > if > > the > > > extra > > > > > aeration > > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add > your > > dechlor > > > > product > > > > > (which > > > > > > one do you > > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 > hour > > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > > adding > > > the > > > > dechlor? > > > > > If > > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding > dechlor and > > did > > > see > > > > the > > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > > after > > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much > verifies > > that > > > your > > > > tap > > > > > > water is > > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a > chemical > > made > > > by > > > > binding > > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia > seems > > > alarming, > > > > > especially > > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% > PWC's on a > > > fully > > > > cycled > > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which > is > > easily > > > > handled by > > > > > the > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the > filter > > > system > > > > but > > > > > also > > > > > > in other > > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as > rough > > as > > > the > > > > sickness > > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > > osmoregulatory > > > > > balance > > > > > > with the > > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are > also > > going > > > > through > > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good > shape > > by > > > doing > > > > your > > > > > > testing and > > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the > tank? > > > Goldfish > > > > needs > > > > > lots > > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will > become > > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > > This can be > > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > > lowering > > > the > > > > water > > > > > level > > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter > returning > > > water > > > > causes > > > > > more > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will > increase > > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > > at the > > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and > add O2 > > to > > > the > > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals > will make > > it > > > and > > > > then > > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to > > > articles > > > > > referenced > > > > > > above > > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf > > > Of > > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .5ppm; > > > Nitrite: > > > > 0ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's > a good > > > sign. She > > > > is > > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no > fresh > > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish > with the > > bug- > > > eyes) > > > > is > > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB > was > > before I > > > > started > > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems > very > > tired > > > and > > > > wants > > > > > to > > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > > patches > > > are > > > > slowly > > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the > Nitrates? > > Salt > > > is > > > > still > > > > > about > > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34561	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia > but > > then > > > > activated > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > > Carbon > > > also > > > > does > > > > > not remove > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > probably > > just > > > an A- > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink > in > > my old > > > home > > > > and > > > > > I would > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my > Betta > > tank > > > but it > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount > of > > water > > > that > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I > used > > it on > > > my > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set > up > > to dose > > > 1G > > > > or > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > > precise > > > syringe > > > > to > > > > > worry about > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the > Pur > > filter > > > for > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing > 25% > > PWC's > > > on a > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are > the > > worst > > > in > > > > the > > > > > world, I > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta > filter > > for > > > the > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin > Tap > > Water > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a > 55G > > tank > > > and > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you > over > > 3 > > > > years ... > > > > > probably much > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon > filters > > on > > > the > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and > treats > > more > > > > water > > > > > but it's > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've > been > > > getting > > > > the > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would > order it > > > online > > > > from > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't > worth > > paying > > > more > > > > for > > > > > shipping > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your > tap > > water > > > > without > > > > > using the > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you > will > > use > > > in > > > > the > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since > the > > dechlor > > > will > > > > > break the > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the > water > > goes > > > > through > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other > nasty > > things > > > (I'll > > > > > search down > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). > The > > zero > > > > reading > > > > > is right > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through > the > > > filter. I > > > > > don't add > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > > straight > > > tap > > > > water > > > > > and > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if > the > > extra > > > > aeration > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your > dechlor > > > product > > > > (which > > > > > one do you > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > adding > > the > > > dechlor? > > > > If > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and > did > > see > > > the > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > after > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies > that > > your > > > tap > > > > > water is > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical > made > > by > > > binding > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > > alarming, > > > > especially > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > > fully > > > cycled > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is > easily > > > handled by > > > > the > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > > system > > > but > > > > also > > > > > in other > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough > as > > the > > > sickness > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > osmoregulatory > > > > balance > > > > > with the > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also > going > > > through > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape > by > > doing > > > your > > > > > testing and > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > > Goldfish > > > needs > > > > lots > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > This can be > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > lowering > > the > > > water > > > > level > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > > water > > > causes > > > > more > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 > to > > the > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make > it > > and > > > then > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > > sign. She > > > is > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the > bug- > > eyes) > > > is > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was > before I > > > started > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > She does come out to eat, but just seems very > tired > > and > > > wants > > > > to > > > > > sit on the > > > > > > bottom most of the time. > > > > > > - CB and Lucille acting fine. CB's white > patches > > are > > > slowly > > > > > disappearing. > > > > > > - Tanks readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm: > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: not > > > > > > quite 20ppm > > > > > > - Will post 48 Hour Baseline later tonight > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it time for a PWC to lower the Nitrates? > Salt > > is > > > still > > > > about > > > > > 25T in a > > > > > > 20G tank > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 5 of Salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - I forgot to mention that I did measure the > tank > > > yesterday > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > definitely a 20G. > > > > > > - 1AM Tank readings: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > - 24 hr Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thanks for all the great info! If Lucille > turn > > out to > > > be a > > > > > male, I guess > > > > > > I'll change the name to Elbie (LB for Lucille > > Ball), lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:02 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OUCH... but don't panic. Often, even 0.5% (5 > > teaspoons > > > per > > > > > gallon) are used > > > > > > for tough cases so you aren't going to kill the > > > goldfish... > > > > and > > > > > it's > > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just slowly drop it back down to 0.3% by only > > adding 3 > > > > teaspoons > > > > > per gallon > > > > > > to the replacement water, with each PWC, and > this > > will > > > slowly > > > > > bring the > > > > > > salinity level back down very close to 0.3%. > Oops.. > > I > > > started > > > > > typing my > > > > > > answer before reading your entire email. You > > already > > > started > > > > > doing this.. > > > > > > except keep adding the 0.3% salt to replacement > > water > > > just to > > > > > make sure your > > > > > > math is OK. You can't go wrong with adding the > 15 > > > teaspoons > > > > to > > > > > every five > > > > > > gallons that you replace. This is why many > people > > use > > > those > > > > 5G > > > > > buckets for > > > > > > their fish. You can mark off the 2.5G or 3G > mark in > > a 5G > > > > bucket, > > > > > fill it to > > > > > > that level, dose it with dechlor (and any meds, > > salt, > > > etc.) > > > > and > > > > > then slowly > > > > > > pour it back into the tank. When siphoning > water > > out, use > > > the > > > > > same mark to > > > > > > know how much you are removing. The reason for > the > > 2.5G > > > or 3G > > > > > mark is you > > > > > > don't want to fill up the 5G bucket to the top > or > > you'll > > > > spill a > > > > > lot when > > > > > > trying to dump it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure or your tank size, measure > your > > tank, > > > L" x > > > > W" x > > > > > H" and > > > > > > give us the measurements.. or you can figure it > out > > > yourself. > > > > For > > > > > your > > > > > > information, you can figure out the U.S. > gallons on > > any > > > > > square/rectangular > > > > > > tank by knowing those three numbers. Here is > the > > formula. > > > L" > > > > x W" > > > > > x H" = > > > > > > Cubic Inches, then divide by 231 = U. S. > Gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > While the higher level of salt might have an > > adverse > > > effect > > > > on<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34562	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem

Alright Deb, yes I did see Lenny's question on the fish's behavior. Looks like I took your answer of the fish spitting the food out as intentionally trying to break the food up, with intents on continuing to eat it -- my mistake in reading it too fast to grasp the full meaning you were conveying. I guess I was trying to dispell any misconceptions. As the behavior you are describing is unmistakeable as associated with the fish initially going on a hunger strike due to digestive system infection, I'm hoping my outline of same might be instructive to all concerned in this. Note, I've taken to post anew on this rather than to reply to the already quite long thread, and to further add to that <g>. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34563	From: David Keymel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

The proper resolution to this issue is for the owner of this group to (i think) join grouply and request that the group be removed from grouply so that it cannot archive messages and send spam to members of the group. At any rate the issue can be resolved by the owners of this group to protect us all from the "spam" messages if they choose to do so. On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > The OK to invite everyone, in each Yahoo Group that you belong to, is part > of the default settings when joining Grouply... as is giving them your Yahoo > ID and password. When Grouply first started up, people HAD to give them > their Yahoo ID and password. Now it's an option but in the joining process, > a page comes up where they tell you to fill in your Yahoo ID and password > and then there's a "Continue" link at the bottom. You can click continue > without filling out the info but nothing on the page explains that so many > folks still fall for this trick. The only thing that's going to stop > Grouply is for people to quit joining it... or at least quit giving up their > Yahoo ID's and passwords... but as P. T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker > born every minute!". > > The good news is that Grouply isn't scamming people out of money or credit > card info... it's just a new spin and an aggressive social networking > site... but if people keep any of their banking or credit info in their > yahoo account in any manner, one day Grouply will be hacked and then the > hackers will have all of the Yahoo ID's and passwords. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > > According to my research, this is not true. The individual needs to OK the > sending of invites. Grouply does the job of an ordinary mail client by > collecting all the mailings from the Yahoo lists you subscribe to. In order > to do this, they need your Yahoo username and password. > > \\Steve// > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of >> Menagerie_Manager >> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:30 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP >> >> Grouply is the spammer, not the person who appears to have sent > the message. It used to >> be that when you signed up for Grouply, you had to give them your > Yahoo ID and password. >> That is no longer required, but when you sign up, the default setting > makes it look as though >> you still need to do that. Once they get your ID and password, > Grouply then goes into your >> address book and sends invites to every address there without your > knowledge. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Brad Belikove >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:10 PM >> Subject: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP >> >> >> I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into > this for >> me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one >> >> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@... > <mailto:bfalank%40yahoo.com> > wrote: >> >> > We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in > Grouply so >> > you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my > favorite group >> > messages. >> > >> > Here is the link: >> > http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492 > <http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492> . >> > >> > bobbi falank >> > >> > >> > >> > ========================== >> > Block Grouply >> > Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX > <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX> > 6JarQaJsZK >> TQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>| Mark >> > as >> > SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja > <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja> > rQaJsZK >> TQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> >> > >> > Click >> > here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja > <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja> > rQaJsZKT >> QvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>to block all emails from > Grouply, 495 >> Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood >> > City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group > member who >> > uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34564	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: New Member - long

hi i just joined your group since i am now the proud owner of a 30 gallon fish tank (at least i think 30 gallons)tank outside dimensions are 12+1/2 inches deep, 18 inches high and 29+3/4 inches long complete with fish ..... 2 Oranda, 2 plecostomus and 1 brown catfish, (not sure what type) i have had the tank set up for about 7 weeks now how can i tell how many gallons the tank holds? how can i tell if my Orandas are male or female? my tank just started a few days ago to go cloudy, (not green cloudy) will be taking some water to the pet store for testing this week-end to check for quality. i have some chemicals for testing but don't remember how to test properly and won't take the chance of doing something wrong and killing the fish i just did a 20% water change, used tap water and let it sit for 24 hours for the chlorine to evaporate, should i be doing something different? i have not had a tank in 30 years so my knowledge is way outdated :) i will be getting another fish tank this week-end (not sure what size yet)no fish ....... i have read some of the posts and need to know more about cycling the tank before adding fish. what do i need to do to prepare the tank for new fish? should i get a general parasite treatment, is so which one? i live in Canada so i may not have the same products up here. thanks for your time Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34565	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem

Deb, Early this morning, when the fish were watching the Christmas tree lights, were they up off of the gravel at the front glass and if so, were they ALL up off of the gravel? That would definitely be a good sign that they're feeling at least somewhat better (although they'll still need the PraziPro med for their internal issues). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Alright Deb, yes I did see Lenny's question on the fish's behavior. > Looks like I took your answer of the fish spitting the food out as > intentionally trying to break the food up, with intents on continuing > to eat it -- my mistake in reading it too fast to grasp the full > meaning you were conveying. I guess I was trying to dispell any > misconceptions. As the behavior you are describing is unmistakeable as > associated with the fish initially going on a hunger strike due to > digestive system infection, I'm hoping my outline of same might be > instructive to all concerned in this. Note, I've taken to post anew on > this rather than to reply to the already quite long thread, and to > further add to that <g>. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34566	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: New Member - long

Hi Darlene, Congrats on the new aquisition (tank), and welcome to the group. Hope we can be of some help to you at some point. You have what is known in the hobby as a 29 gallon tank -- the normal 30 gallon tank is the same width (what you call "depth" -- not to be confused with the depth/height of the tank) of 12 1/2", but is 16" high and 36" long. You should be aware that, while this size tank may be temporarily adequate for these present fish, they will soon outgrow it and as such you should be thinking about getting a much larger tank in the future. Orandas can get to between 8" to 10" and at that size will need 30 gallons each; a 55 gallon tank would just be comfortably maintainable for them. Be aware too that if these Plecostomus are the common species found in many pet shops as regularly offered stock, they can easily grow to at least 18" long. The brown catfish remains in question. Hard to tell male from female Orandas (or any Goldfish for that matter) until breeding time when the males develop a series of raised opercles on their gill plates. The cloudiness you are seeing is most probably a bacteria explosion as a result of a mini-cycle, which is common with newly set up tanks. It normally takes a tank about 6 weeks to cycle, but as a goldfish tank would not be kept at a temperature much over 68 o F, this process would then take a bit longer. Your 20% partial water change may have been prudent in this case, to help eliminate any excess amounts of organic wastes feeding this bacteria bloom, but as many water companies have recently changed over to chloramine rather than using just plain chlorine, this will not dissipate over 24 (nor even 48) hours, but instead will remain locked up together as a toxic compound. You need to get a bottle of chloramine neutralizer. You should also start learning how to do your own water testing -- it's not hard and you'll find it's increasingly important to keep on top of your water parameters. Good to see that in the meantime, you are at least having the water tested. To be of the most assistance to you, we will need the results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (GH and KH would be helpful to know, but not essential at this point); we would need all these results in numbers, not just "OK" or "normal." You should not need a "general parasite" medication, unless its determined that the fish may actually need it. Keep us posted here, not only on the store test results (a master testing kit for home use can be had for less than $20), but on the newer tank you are getting. I'm confident others will chime in here as well, to help you out further. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Darlene" <amazonbirds@...> wrote: > > hi i just joined your group since i am now the proud owner of a 30 > gallon fish tank (at least i think 30 gallons)tank outside dimensions > are 12+1/2 inches deep, 18 inches high and 29+3/4 inches long > complete with fish ..... 2 Oranda, 2 plecostomus and 1 brown catfish, > (not sure what type) > i have had the tank set up for about 7 weeks now > how can i tell how many gallons the tank holds? > how can i tell if my Orandas are male or female? > my tank just started a few days ago to go cloudy, (not green cloudy) > will be taking some water to the pet store for testing this week- end > to check for quality. i have some chemicals for testing but don't > remember how to test properly and won't take the chance of doing > something wrong and killing the fish > i just did a 20% water change, used tap water and let it sit for 24 > hours for the chlorine to evaporate, should i be doing something > different? i have not had a tank in 30 years so my knowledge is way > outdated :) > i will be getting another fish tank this week-end (not sure what size > yet)no fish ....... i have read some of the posts and need to know > more about cycling the tank before adding fish. > what do i need to do to prepare the tank for new fish? > should i get a general parasite treatment, is so which one? > i live in Canada so i may not have the same products up here. > thanks for your time > > Darlene >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34567	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: forgot to add :)

that in the last few days one of my Oranda fish seems to be getting a whitish line at the base of the tail near where it joins the body is this ick, parasites or fungus and how do i tell the difference? what is the best first step to try and cure it? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34568	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: where do i find rounder rocks

the local places only have slate and lava rock. i want to use more rounded stuff in a new aquarium. does home depot sell rocks? i guess it's worth a try to look. also what kind of rock won't mess with my water chemistry specifically the pH, something like sandstone should be pretty safe right?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34569	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: New Member - long

Since you are newly back into the hobby and I am answering most of your questions/issues below, you should also take one or both of the free online tutorials that I have linked on my blog. On my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com page, "A to Z of Fishkeeping...", right near the top of that page, you'll see the links to the two tutorials. These tutorials will walk you through all of the basics, including cycling with fish, which you are now stuck with doing. While there, also read my long article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" which is another common mistake made by newbie's or folks that are back new to fish keeping. Much has changed in the past 10-15 years concerning our knowledge of the nitrogen cycle in aquaria. Yes, using your measurements and a standard formula for U.S. gallons, 12.5 x 18 x 29.75 = 6693.75 divided by 231 = 28.97 gallons which would be called a 30G U.S. I think our neighbors to the north, meaning you in Canada, use the same size gallon as we do. While it might appear to be a BIG tank for baby goldfish and catfish, it's not going to be big enough for long term housing for your goldfish and especially not for your Pleco, if it's a common pleco. Since it has only been set up for seven weeks, hopefully you are through the cycling issues. It's not good to cycle with fish... especially not heavy waste producers like goldfish and catfish but it sounds like all of yours made it through. What are your water parameters like from the tap and in the tank? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you may have. You will not be able to easily sex the goldfish are until they mature a little. The males are easier to sex as they will get breeding tubercles on their gill covers and leading edges of their pectoral fins. This page gives the best info on sexing them along with photos. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html The GAB site has some very good info except for their goldfish care page which is still stuck in the past with suggesting only 10G per goldfish. You will quickly learn that 10G per goldfish is NOT enough water or tank size for goldfish. I have my own goldfish care sheet on my blog which you should read over for more info. Oops.. I just read a little further into your post and I see you have white cloudy water which most likely means your tank is not fully cycled.... or your water change method could be a problem. White cloudiness is normally a bacterial bloom caused in newer tanks as the nitrogen cycle is growing but it can also be a bacterial bloom of bad bacteria. You mention that you let the water sit for 24 hours to "let the chlorine evaporate" but this is OLD info. You need to check with your water utility to see if they are now using Chloramine to disinfect the water. If yes, then your 20% water change just killed off all of your good nitrifying bacteria and is probably irritating the fish as well. Chloramine will not outgas like Chlorine once did. There are still some utilities that use only Chlorine so hopefully yours still does. If you have chloramine in your tap water, then this is what is causing your white cloudiness... it's a bacterial bloom. You should get a basic dechlor product. I use either API's Tap Water Conditioner or Top Fin's Tap Water Dechlorinator... both basically the same product. They are both more concentrated than most of the other brands out there. With these two, 1ml to 2ml will treat 10G where most other products require 5ml to 10ml per 10G. They both treat for chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals. You do not need all of the stress-this or slime-that type products.... in fact one of my new golden rules is "95% of the stuff at the pet store is not needed 95% of the time"... which keeps more gold in our pockets! ;-) Since you are getting another tank, there may not be a need to fishless cycle the new tank since the old tank may still be cycling with fish. It would be better for the fish to be split up, the two goldfish in one tank and the catfish in the other tank and then you'll have to cycle both tanks with fish... unless you can buy some Dr. Tim's One And Only, available online and at many fish stores. This is the only bacteria-in-a-bottle that I would recommend. The others mostly do not work... or do not work as advertised. Dr. Tim Hovanec is the industry leader in this type of product. While fancy goldfish do not grow as large as their long-bodied varieties, they still have very similar body mass except fancy goldfish are a lot fatter, rather than longer. The current world record for a fancy goldfish is Bruce The Oranda. He is 18" long at present. Most fancy goldfish will not grow that large but will reach 8" body lengths and just as big around. A single 8" adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish... which is why your 30G tank will not work for them long term. 30G per goldfish is the minimum that I recommend although a 55G 48" x 12" footprint tank will be OK for two fancy goldfish as long as the owner is prepared to do at least weekly tank maintenance (meaning gravel vacuuming, filter maintenance and a 25% PWC - partial water change). Hikari's PraziPro (praziquantel) is one medication that many goldfish keepers will use on their fish while they are still in quarantine and because gill flukes is very common in farm bred goldfish. It's very mild so it does not bother the fish like some other medications. If it's available up there and your budget allows it, go ahead and get a small bottle and use it on your current fish and any new fish you may get in the future as you get BIGGER tanks for your current fish. ;-) You need to identify your two catfish. The pleco, if a common pleco, will grow to 18"+ and needs to be in at least a 75G+ tank. There are some dwarf varieties that only grow to 4" to 6" which might be OK in a 30G tank... but not also with your goldfish in the same tank. If you can take photos of your catfish (plecos are catfish btw) and post them in the group or your own online photo album, we can try to ID them for you... or check with where you purchased them for more info. While most pleco's will range from 4" to 24", other catfish can range from a 1" Otocinclus to SIX FOOT LONG river catfish... so it's imperative that you ID your other catfish. I've seen Channel Catfish sold in my local stores and the Louisiana record for a channel catfish is over 100 pounds. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member - long hi i just joined your group since i am now the proud owner of a 30 gallon fish tank (at least i think 30 gallons)tank outside dimensions are 12+1/2 inches deep, 18 inches high and 29+3/4 inches long complete with fish ..... 2 Oranda, 2 plecostomus and 1 brown catfish, (not sure what type) i have had the tank set up for about 7 weeks now how can i tell how many gallons the tank holds? how can i tell if my Orandas are male or female? my tank just started a few days ago to go cloudy, (not green cloudy) will be taking some water to the pet store for testing this week-end to check for quality. i have some chemicals for testing but don't remember how to test properly and won't take the chance of doing something wrong and killing the fish i just did a 20% water change, used tap water and let it sit for 24 hours for the chlorine to evaporate, should i be doing something different? i have not had a tank in 30 years so my knowledge is way outdated :) i will be getting another fish tank this week-end (not sure what size yet)no fish ....... i have read some of the posts and need to know more about cycling the tank before adding fish. what do i need to do to prepare the tank for new fish? should i get a general parasite treatment, is so which one? i live in Canada so i may not have the same products up here. thanks for your time Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34570	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem

Yes, they were all about halfway up the height of the tank. I think I heard them saying, "Ooooooh . . . l i g h t s . . ." CB is still spending a LOT of time resting today, but Raven was actually playing in the water current from the filter this morning. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 12:05 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem Deb, Early this morning, when the fish were watching the Christmas tree lights, were they up off of the gravel at the front glass and if so, were they ALL up off of the gravel? That would definitely be a good sign that they're feeling at least somewhat better (although they'll still need the PraziPro med for their internal issues). Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34571	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: where do i find rounder rocks

When you say "the local places", are you checking local gardening centers and landscape companies? They should certainly carry everything from pea gravel on up as far as rounder rocks are concerned. If you are talking about local fish stores, they are probably carrying what their customers... maybe cichlid keepers... want and/or need. I'm not sure if the Home Depot garden centers sell much as far as varying sizes of rocks but they do sell bags of pea gravel. Here are some pages about aquarium rocks. You'll see some conflicting info about sandstone/limestone type rocks. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml http://www.uniquaria.com/index.php/articles/6-misc/21-aquarium-safe-rocks Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 11:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] where do i find rounder rocks the local places only have slate and lava rock. i want to use more rounded stuff in a new aquarium. does home depot sell rocks? i guess it's worth a try to look. also what kind of rock won't mess with my water chemistry specifically the pH, something like sandstone should be pretty safe right?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34572	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

I didn't get this spam. In truth I would have ignored it if I did. What is probably happening is that Grouply harvested your address from the computer of someone who is on Grouply and has this you in their address book. My address book collects the name of anyone I have ever replied to. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Belikove" <bbelikove@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into this for me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@...> wrote: > We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in Grouply > so > you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my favorite group > messages. > > Here is the link: > http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492 . > > bobbi falank > > > > ========================== > Block Grouply > Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>| > Mark > as > SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> > > Click > here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>to > block all emails from Grouply, 495 Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood > City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group member who > uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34573	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

Thanks, Steve! I didn't know that Grouply had set up a way to screen out Grouply; I would have thought such a concept to be antithetical to what Grouply is all about! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:14 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP Forward the e-mail invite (it is not spam, as spam is defined) to abuse@.... Explain to them, if true, that you do not know this person, and do not wish to receive anything originating from Grouply from them. You can also follow the first link at the end of the message to block all invites from Grouply, follow the second link to Mark it as spam, and follow the third link to block everything from Grouply. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: forgot to add :)

The whitish line is not Ich. Ich will look like the fish has sprinkles of salt or sugar on it. Is the whitish line raised up off the skin or coloration in the skin? Goldfish will change colors/patterns many times in their lifetime. Does it look like one of the tailfin rays are thickening and getting more opaque than the others? If you can take good photos, they are always helpful. Check this page http://www.tinyurl.com/2m83ee which is the Archived page for Pandora's Fish Disease site. It has hundreds of photos of various fish problems. It will take a while to load due to all of the photos and the way the Wayback Archive stores archived pages. The info is about 10 years old so there may have been some improvements in available medications but other than that, it's full of great info. If you see a lot of red x's where photos should be, you can try to refresh the page to get a better download. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] forgot to add :) that in the last few days one of my Oranda fish seems to be getting a whitish line at the base of the tail near where it joins the body is this ick, parasites or fungus and how do i tell the difference? what is the best first step to try and cure it? Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34575	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: forgot to add :)

the line is raised off the skin a bit it is at the base of the body where the tail fin starts it is not the color of the fish changing, it almost looks "fuzzy" have to get batteries for my camera, just tried to take a picture but it did not come out :( The whitish line is not Ich. Ich will look like the fish has sprinkles of salt or sugar on it. Is the whitish line raised up off the skin or coloration in the skin? Goldfish will change colors/patterns many times in their lifetime. Does it look like one of the tailfin rays are thickening and getting more opaque than the others? If you can take good photos, they are always helpful. Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34576	From: David Keymel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

Grouply gets access to your yahoo account i think. If the members list is open to members for viewing its possible it gets them there also. On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > I didn't get this spam. In truth I would have ignored it if I did. What > is probably happening is that Grouply harvested your address from the > computer of someone who is on Grouply and has this you in their address > book. > > My address book collects the name of anyone I have ever replied to. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Belikove" <bbelikove@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > > I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into this for > me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one > > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@...> wrote: > >> We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in Grouply >> so >> you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my favorite group >> messages. >> >> Here is the link: >> http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492 . >> >> bobbi falank >> >> >> >> ========================== >> Block Grouply >> >> Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>| >> Mark >> as >> >> SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> >> >> Click >> >> here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>to >> block all emails from Grouply, 495 Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood >> City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group member who >> uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group. >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34577	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: New Member - long

Just a slight correction in the tank size, which I've already outlined in my previous post -- by any tank manufacturer's standards, Darlene's tank is cataloged as a 29 gallon tank. While only an insignificant 1 gallon difference, the "standard" 30 gallon tank has 72 more square inches of bottom (and surface) area, in its 36" length. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since you are newly back into the hobby and I am answering most of your > questions/issues below, you should also take one or both of the free online > tutorials that I have linked on my blog. On my blog > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com page, "A to Z of Fishkeeping...", right near > the top of that page, you'll see the links to the two tutorials. These > tutorials will walk you through all of the basics, including cycling with > fish, which you are now stuck with doing. While there, also read my long > article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" which is another common > mistake made by newbie's or folks that are back new to fish keeping. Much > has changed in the past 10-15 years concerning our knowledge of the nitrogen > cycle in aquaria. > > Yes, using your measurements and a standard formula for U.S. gallons, 12.5 x > 18 x 29.75 = 6693.75 divided by 231 = 28.97 gallons which would be called a > 30G U.S. I think our neighbors to the north, meaning you in Canada, use the > same size gallon as we do. > > While it might appear to be a BIG tank for baby goldfish and catfish, it's > not going to be big enough for long term housing for your goldfish and > especially not for your Pleco, if it's a common pleco. > > Since it has only been set up for seven weeks, hopefully you are through the > cycling issues. It's not good to cycle with fish... especially not heavy > waste producers like goldfish and catfish but it sounds like all of yours > made it through. What are your water parameters like from the tap and in the > tank? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you may have. > > You will not be able to easily sex the goldfish are until they mature a > little. The males are easier to sex as they will get breeding tubercles on > their gill covers and leading edges of their pectoral fins. This page gives > the best info on sexing them along with photos. > http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html > > The GAB site has some very good info except for their goldfish care page > which is still stuck in the past with suggesting only 10G per goldfish. You > will quickly learn that 10G per goldfish is NOT enough water or tank size > for goldfish. I have my own goldfish care sheet on my blog which you should > read over for more info. > > Oops.. I just read a little further into your post and I see you have white > cloudy water which most likely means your tank is not fully cycled.... or > your water change method could be a problem. White cloudiness is normally a > bacterial bloom caused in newer tanks as the nitrogen cycle is growing but > it can also be a bacterial bloom of bad bacteria. > > You mention that you let the water sit for 24 hours to "let the chlorine > evaporate" but this is OLD info. You need to check with your water utility > to see if they are now using Chloramine to disinfect the water. If yes, > then your 20% water change just killed off all of your good nitrifying > bacteria and is probably irritating the fish as well. Chloramine will not > outgas like Chlorine once did. There are still some utilities that use only > Chlorine so hopefully yours still does. If you have chloramine in your tap > water, then this is what is causing your white cloudiness... it's a > bacterial bloom. You should get a basic dechlor product. I use either > API's Tap Water Conditioner or Top Fin's Tap Water Dechlorinator... both > basically the same product. They are both more concentrated than most of > the other brands out there. With these two, 1ml to 2ml will treat 10G where > most other products require 5ml to 10ml per 10G. They both treat for > chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals. You do not need all of the > stress-this or slime-that type products.... in fact one of my new golden > rules is "95% of the stuff at the pet store is not needed 95% of the > time"... which keeps more gold in our pockets! ;-) > > Since you are getting another tank, there may not be a need to fishless > cycle the new tank since the old tank may still be cycling with fish. It > would be better for the fish to be split up, the two goldfish in one tank > and the catfish in the other tank and then you'll have to cycle both tanks > with fish... unless you can buy some Dr. Tim's One And Only, available > online and at many fish stores. This is the only bacteria-in-a- bottle that > I would recommend. The others mostly do not work... or do not work as > advertised. Dr. Tim Hovanec is the industry leader in this type of product. > > > While fancy goldfish do not grow as large as their long-bodied varieties, > they still have very similar body mass except fancy goldfish are a lot > fatter, rather than longer. The current world record for a fancy goldfish > is Bruce The Oranda. He is 18" long at present. Most fancy goldfish will > not grow that large but will reach 8" body lengths and just as big around. > A single 8" adult sized goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" > goldfish... which is why your 30G tank will not work for them long term. > 30G per goldfish is the minimum that I recommend although a 55G 48" x 12" > footprint tank will be OK for two fancy goldfish as long as the owner is > prepared to do at least weekly tank maintenance (meaning gravel vacuuming, > filter maintenance and a 25% PWC - partial water change). > > Hikari's PraziPro (praziquantel) is one medication that many goldfish > keepers will use on their fish while they are still in quarantine and > because gill flukes is very common in farm bred goldfish. It's very mild so > it does not bother the fish like some other medications. If it's available > up there and your budget allows it, go ahead and get a small bottle and use > it on your current fish and any new fish you may get in the future as you > get BIGGER tanks for your current fish. ;-) > > You need to identify your two catfish. The pleco, if a common pleco, will > grow to 18"+ and needs to be in at least a 75G+ tank. There are some dwarf > varieties that only grow to 4" to 6" which might be OK in a 30G tank... but > not also with your goldfish in the same tank. If you can take photos of > your catfish (plecos are catfish btw) and post them in the group or your own > online photo album, we can try to ID them for you... or check with where you > purchased them for more info. While most pleco's will range from 4" to 24", > other catfish can range from a 1" Otocinclus to SIX FOOT LONG river > catfish... so it's imperative that you ID your other catfish. I've seen > Channel Catfish sold in my local stores and the Louisiana record for a > channel catfish is over 100 pounds. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Darlene > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member - long > > hi i just joined your group since i am now the proud owner of a 30 gallon > fish tank (at least i think 30 gallons)tank outside dimensions are 12+1/2 > inches deep, 18 inches high and 29+3/4 inches long complete with fish ..... > 2 Oranda, 2 plecostomus and 1 brown catfish, (not sure what type) i have had > the tank set up for about 7 weeks now how can i tell how many gallons the > tank holds? > how can i tell if my Orandas are male or female? > my tank just started a few days ago to go cloudy, (not green cloudy) will be > taking some water to the pet store for testing this week-end to check for > quality. i have some chemicals for testing but don't remember how to test > properly and won't take the chance of doing something wrong and killing the > fish i just did a 20% water change, used tap water and let it sit for 24 > hours for the chlorine to evaporate, should i be doing something different? > i have not had a tank in 30 years so my knowledge is way outdated :) i will > be getting another fish tank this week-end (not sure what size yet) no fish > ....... i have read some of the posts and need to know more about cycling > the tank before adding fish. > what do i need to do to prepare the tank for new fish? > should i get a general parasite treatment, is so which one? > i live in Canada so i may not have the same products up here. > thanks for your time > > Darlene >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34578	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: New Member - long

you should also take one or both of the free online tutorials that I have linked on my blog. On my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com page, "A to Z of Fishkeeping...", right near the top of that page, you'll see the links to the two tutorials. thanks Lenny i book marked your site and will get busy reading it this week-end before i do anything will the new tank :)) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34579	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: chemicals that came with tank

this is a list of the products/chemicals that i was given along with the fish tank: pH up: contains sodium hydrochloride (ENECNo 215-185-5) Freshwater Ph test: indicator solution bromothymol blue Ammonia test solution: modified nessler reagent: contains sodium hydroxide and mercuric iodide methylene blue: use 10 drops per gallon Aqua Plus from tetrafin/Hagen: tap water conditioner, removes chlorine, chloramines, neutralizes heavy metals, coats to protect and heal says pure herbal extracts visibly reduce stress due to transportation does not say what is in it (ingredients) waste control from nutrafin/Hagen: organic waste eliminator says will help reduce waste from fish, over feeding, and other organic wastes (dead fish i presume) also does not say what active ingredients are in it Ammonia test kit with bottle #1 and #2 (looks like it was never used) Nitrate test kit (Also looks new) Cycle from nutrafin/Hagen: for fresh and salt water more nitrifiers, rapidly matures new aquariums releases massive amounts of beneficial bacteria into the aquarium. each dose works to reduce dangerous ammonia and nitrate levels. also does not list active ingredients. i am leery of using products that do not say what chemical is in it let me know (other than the 2 kits for testing water) if these products are ok to use or should i chuck them out :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34580	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

there is a way you can block grouply -----Original Message----- From: Brad Belikove <bbelikove@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 7:10 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into this for me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@...> wrote: > We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in Grouply so > you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my favorite group > messages. > > Here is the link: > http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492 . > > bobbi falank > > > > ========================== > Block Grouply Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>| Mark > as SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> > > Click here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6JarQaJsZKTQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>to block all emails from Grouply, 495 Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood > City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group member who > uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·B 4¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34581	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: forgot to add :)

Sounds like the fish has a fungal issue to me, but without seeing it first hand it's hard to tell. I would start by doing more PWC's, especially since you said your tank is cloudy. If you didn't cycle your tank before you added your fish (or take media like carbon or gravel from an established tank) then that cloudiness in your tank is probably an ammonia cloud, which could cause a lot of stress on your fish possibly losing some of them. Without a proper test kit it's really hard to know for sure if it's ammonia or not, but I'm guessing your tank wasn't cycled. When I first set up my tank I didn't know to cycle it first either and had the same issue you're describing after about a month with fish in the tank. I had to do PWC's every day (25% each water change) and when I first got the white cloudiness from the ammonia bloom I had to do PWC's every hour until the water was clearer and the ammonia wasn't reading so high. If your fish don't seem very happy or active and have been sitting on the bottom of the tank they tend to get sick soon after if the tank water is not kept in good clean condition, especially if ammonia is causing stress on them. Getting the water cleaner will help with the fungal issue (probably fin and tail rot or something similar), but if it's a bad case you may need to get some medicine for it. Someone else may have a good suggestion for meds for your issue, I'm not that experienced with fish medicine yet. Amber Darlene wrote: > > the line is raised off the skin a bit it is at the base of the body > where the tail fin starts it is not the color of the fish changing, it > almost looks "fuzzy" > have to get batteries for my camera, just tried to take a picture but > it did not come out :( > > The whitish line is not Ich. Ich will look like the fish has sprinkles of > salt or sugar on it. > > Is the whitish line raised up off the skin or coloration in the skin? > Goldfish will change colors/patterns many times in their lifetime. Does it > look like one of the tailfin rays are thickening and getting more opaque > than the others? If you can take good photos, they are always helpful. > > Darlene > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34582	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

how can you block grouply? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

Here's Grouply's own option to block yourself. http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP how can you block grouply? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34584	From: David Keymel	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

THe owners of this yahoo group can log into grouply and remove this group from the list of groups that grouply can access. I know its possible the Gamers_for_life group did it. We have had zero trouble with grouply since then. On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: > how can you block grouply? > > Darlene > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34585	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: forgot to add :)

OK. You might want to read over the active thread "Newbie with a fungus" which will enlighten you about what you could be facing. Part of what is happening is when fish are overcrowded in a tank, they get stressed from the increased hormone levels in the water. When fish get stressed, their immune system falters and they start to have health problems or succumb to some minor bacteria that they would normally be able to fend off. Since you've been cycling with fish and haven't had your own test kit, your fish have probably had to endure ammonia and nitrite spikes which will also cause them stress and immune system weakening. You should get a smaller tank, maybe a 10G tank or even just a 5G bucket or a sterilite storage box to use as a quarantine tank. This will come in handy many times over as you get new fish... or need to treat an existing fish. You can also get a small sponge filter operated off of an air pump/stone. Whisper also sells a small suction cup mounted hang in tank filter for 3G to 7G tanks for under $10.00 that comes with it's own air pump, line, etc. This is what I use and just add a piece of my already cycled filter media from one of my filter systems and it's up and running and fully cycled for a small bioload. Here's a couple of DIY sponge filters that you can easily make if you have an air pump already. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_spongefilter.php Here's a couple of articles on setting up a Quarantine/Hospital tank. http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_quarantine.php http://www.flippersandfins.net/articelhospital.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 12:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re: forgot to add :) the line is raised off the skin a bit it is at the base of the body where the tail fin starts it is not the color of the fish changing, it almost looks "fuzzy" have to get batteries for my camera, just tried to take a picture but it did not come out :( The whitish line is not Ich. Ich will look like the fish has sprinkles of salt or sugar on it. Is the whitish line raised up off the skin or coloration in the skin? Goldfish will change colors/patterns many times in their lifetime. Does it look like one of the tailfin rays are thickening and getting more opaque than the others? If you can take good photos, they are always helpful. Darlene [

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34586	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: chemicals that came with tank

Wow... whoever had the tank before you really falls for advertising. Tell them I have some beautiful water front swampland down here that I'm selling. ;-) The Aqua Plus is OK to finish using as a dechlor product. Once you run out, get a simple dechlor product like API or Top Fin... without all the added herbal extracts, aloe, stress-this or slime-that type junk in them. Since you need a dechlor, use it ASAP, since you are not sure if you have chlorine or chloramine in your water. The various test kits are a good thing... and sound like the API brand or maybe they have Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. on them. You don't actually add those chemicals to the tank but rather to the test tubes that should have come with the test kits. They only last about a year after they've been opened so they may or may not be accurate any longer. The API Master Test Kit or the Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kit are both available through WalMart.com (did WalMart take over Canada yet? ;-)) for under $20.00 for either kit. They both have their pros and cons but either are good.. just not complete so you would need to buy a separate GH/KH kit for the API or a separate Nitrate kit for the T-L. If they are the API brand, then get the T-L kit since you would already have the nitrate kit which would give you a full array of test kits. I have a long blog article on Master Test Kits for more details. Run all the tests and give us your numbers on your tank. Also do the 48 hour baseline testing on your tap water and give us those numbers. See my blog for more details.. "Find your tap water baseline parameters". DO NOT use any pH altering chemicals unless or until you know more about your water chemistry and only after an experienced person (meaning not the pet store employees) has specifically advised it. Most of us do not advise it since it's better to keep fish that like your available water than to try and alter the chemistry which will have to be done for ever and ever with every PWC that is done on the tank. DO NOT use the waste control or Cycle. They simply do not work as advertised and Cycle seems to cause more cycling problems rather than less... when I tested it several years ago. I think Harry or Ray did a more in-depth review of what's in Cycle and why it doesn't work. You could search the message archives for a post in the past several months. Basically, it has the wrong bacteria in it for cycling a tank. As I explained earlier, 95% of the bottle-bacteria products are not the correct bacteria. The only one I recommend right now is Dr. Tim's One And Only which does have the right bacteria. Methylene Blue is a viable medicinal treatment when prescribed. It might even be something you can use on your current potential fungal issue.. once you are certain it's fungal. http://www.novalek.com/kordon/methylene_blue/index.htm You're starting to see my golden rule... 95% of the stuff they sell is not needed 95% of the time. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] chemicals that came with tank this is a list of the products/chemicals that i was given along with the fish tank: pH up: contains sodium hydrochloride (ENECNo 215-185-5) Freshwater Ph test: indicator solution bromothymol blue Ammonia test solution: modified nessler reagent: contains sodium hydroxide and mercuric iodide methylene blue: use 10 drops per gallon Aqua Plus from tetrafin/Hagen: tap water conditioner, removes chlorine, chloramines, neutralizes heavy metals, coats to protect and heal says pure herbal extracts visibly reduce stress due to transportation does not say what is in it (ingredients) waste control from nutrafin/Hagen: organic waste eliminator says will help reduce waste from fish, over feeding, and other organic wastes (dead fish i presume) also does not say what active ingredients are in it Ammonia test kit with bottle #1 and #2 (looks like it was never used) Nitrate test kit (Also looks new) Cycle from nutrafin/Hagen: for fresh and salt water more nitrifiers, rapidly matures new aquariums releases massive amounts of beneficial bacteria into the aquarium. each dose works to reduce dangerous ammonia and nitrate levels. also does not list active ingredients. i am leery of using products that do not say what chemical is in it let me know (other than the 2 kits for testing water) if these products are ok to use or should i chuck them out :) Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34587	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

I'm not logging in to Grouply.. then they'll get my email address. LOL I posted a link for folks that want to block grouply themselves.. but it means giving grouply your email address and praying they are legitimate and don't get hacked by a spammer wanting a lot of nice fresh email addresses. Just use Gmail and set up a rule to send anything from Grouply to your spam folder. Voila! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP THe owners of this yahoo group can log into grouply and remove this group from the list of groups that grouply can access. I know its possible the Gamers_for_life group did it. We have had zero trouble with grouply since then. On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Darlene <amazonbirds@... <mailto:amazonbirds%40videotron.ca> > wrote: > how can you block grouply? > > Darlene > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34588	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: where do i find rounder rocks

Here in NJ and I've definitely seen this in CA landscapers use rounded "river" rocks as mulch or groundcover. Often these are pebble-size and you may prefer rocks anywhere from fist to head-sized. But I HAVE seen very large "river" rocks used as well.every time I walk into my local Barnes and Noble I'm scanning the ground and wondering if anyone would notice if I grabbed this one or that one, LOL! Landscaper supply.river rocks. I've also seen rounded stone sold by landscape or mason suppliers called "cobbles". Look for the suppliers that the landscapers/masons get their rock from. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 1:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] where do i find rounder rocks When you say "the local places", are you checking local gardening centers and landscape companies? They should certainly carry everything from pea gravel on up as far as rounder rocks are concerned. If you are talking about local fish stores, they are probably carrying what their customers... maybe cichlid keepers... want and/or need. I'm not sure if the Home Depot garden centers sell much as far as varying sizes of rocks but they do sell bags of pea gravel. Here are some pages about aquarium rocks. You'll see some conflicting info about sandstone/limestone type rocks. http://www.skeptica <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml> laquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml http://www.uniquari <http://www.uniquaria.com/index.php/articles/6-misc/21-aquarium-safe-rocks> a.com/index.php/articles/6-misc/21-aquarium-safe-rocks Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 11:42 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] where do i find rounder rocks the local places only have slate and lava rock. i want to use more rounded stuff in a new aquarium. does home depot sell rocks? i guess it's worth a try to look. also what kind of rock won't mess with my water chemistry specifically the pH, something like sandstone should be pretty safe right? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34589	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: chemicals that came with tank

Wow... whoever had the tank before you really falls for advertising. Tell them I have some beautiful water front swampland down here that I'm selling.;-) how much per gallon ??? ROFLMAO Since you need a dechlor, use it ASAP, since you are not sure if you have chlorine or chloramine in your water. stopped reading and went and added (according to directions on bottle) to the tank :)) Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. on them -- yup !! (did Wal-Mart take over Canada yet? ;-)) -- yup !! they have some great stuff !! ok will do the 2 tests when i get home tonight. ammonia and nitrate have to run because i am gonna be late !! thanks for all your help so far i am sure i will have many more questions in the near future :)) i am saving most of these emails because i want to be able to go back and check info i need to remember LOL Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34590	From: Darlene	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: where do i find rounder rocks

I walk into my local Barnes and Noble I'm scanning the ground and wondering if anyone would notice if I grabbed this one or that one, LOL! maybe - maybe not !!! you could always try to grab one and see if anyone says anything LOLOL Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34591	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: where do i find rounder rocks

Just drop your keys into the garden area and come up with a few rocks along with your keys. ;-) Rocks are really, really cheap at a landscape/garden supply place.... but nothing's cheaper than free. ;-) Just make sure you rinse them well and then boil them, no matter where you get them from to make sure you rinse off any possible pesticides, etc. This is why some aquarium sites dissuade people from using porous rocks of unknown source... you never know where it might have picked up some contamination that might leach out once it's in your tank. But even if you buy something from your local pet store or fish store, you never know if they bought it from a reliable source. Finding your own and cleaning them is just as good as buying it. Whenever I buy anything "natural", like driftwood, I still soak and boil and prep it as if I found it along side the road. Of course, with some of the stuff we find along side the road down here, we normally make Road-Kill Stew with it. You just have to get to it before the buzzards get to it. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] where do i find rounder rocks I walk into my local Barnes and Noble I'm scanning the ground and wondering if anyone would notice if I grabbed this one or that one, LOL! maybe - maybe not !!! you could always try to grab one and see if anyone says anything LOLOL Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34592	From: harry perry	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: rounder rocks/Another option

I got my rocks from my bank. There river rock landscape on a Sunday afternoon. Of course I was probably picked up on their security system but no one ever said anything. Really cool rocks. Different colors shapes etc. I bleached mine and then  thoroughly rinsed them. Harry --- On Fri, 12/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] where do i find rounder rocks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 6:07 PM Just drop your keys into the garden area and come up with a few rocks along with your keys. ;-) Rocks are really, really cheap at a landscape/garden supply place.... but nothing's cheaper than free. ;-) Just make sure you rinse them well and then boil them, no matter where you get them from to make sure you rinse off any possible pesticides, etc. This is why some aquarium sites dissuade people from using porous rocks of unknown source... you never know where it might have picked up some contamination that might leach out once it's in your tank. But even if you buy something from your local pet store or fish store, you never know if they bought it from a reliable source. Finding your own and cleaning them is just as good as buying it. Whenever I buy anything "natural", like driftwood, I still soak and boil and prep it as if I found it along side the road. Of course, with some of the stuff we find along side the road down here, we normally make Road-Kill Stew with it. You just have to get to it before the buzzards get to it. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] where do i find rounder rocks I walk into my local Barnes and Noble I'm scanning the ground and wondering if anyone would notice if I grabbed this one or that one, LOL! maybe - maybe not !!! you could always try to grab one and see if anyone says anything LOLOL Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34593	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: On the topic of rocks

Would any rocks that I find on a beach be ok for the aquarium? I have a few jars of stones that I've collected over the years and this would be a neat way to display them (after sterilizing them and not until I'm done getting the fishies healthy). Are there any rocks that I need to avoid, that might leach harmful chemicals into the water other than man-made things like asphalt and such? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: rounder rocks/Another option

Sounds like a Flintstone's National Bank withdrawal! Yabba-dabba-doooo! ;-) This is starting to sound like an international rock-theft conspiracy ring. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] rounder rocks/Another option I got my rocks from my bank. There river rock landscape on a Sunday afternoon. Of course I was probably picked up on their security system but no one ever said anything. Really cool rocks. Different colors shapes etc. I bleached mine and then thoroughly rinsed them. Harry --- On Fri, 12/19/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] where do i find rounder rocks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 6:07 PM Just drop your keys into the garden area and come up with a few rocks along with your keys. ;-) Rocks are really, really cheap at a landscape/garden supply place.... but nothing's cheaper than free. ;-) Just make sure you rinse them well and then boil them, no matter where you get them from to make sure you rinse off any possible pesticides, etc. This is why some aquarium sites dissuade people from using porous rocks of unknown source... you never know where it might have picked up some contamination that might leach out once it's in your tank. But even if you buy something from your local pet store or fish store, you never know if they bought it from a reliable source. Finding your own and cleaning them is just as good as buying it. Whenever I buy anything "natural", like driftwood, I still soak and boil and prep it as if I found it along side the road. Of course, with some of the stuff we find along side the road down here, we normally make Road-Kill Stew with it. You just have to get to it before the buzzards get to it. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] where do i find rounder rocks I walk into my local Barnes and Noble I'm scanning the ground and wondering if anyone would notice if I grabbed this one or that one, LOL! maybe - maybe not !!! you could always try to grab one and see if anyone says anything LOLOL Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34595	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

Actually my wife answered an ad on craigslist because the heading was "Looking for people with lots of pets" My wife said "We Do" Take a look: www.littlefallsfarm.tripod.com though the amount of animals we have arent much for a farm, ya got to remember we are in a 1900 sq ft home and a 1/4 acre of property in the middle of surburbia. The last show they had a huge house with 8 cars/suvs and quads etc. To change all the lite bulbs to cfls they need 160 of them. Thats not us!! With that said Ive seen a couple of shows and since you do win a few grand why not. Though they tend to dumb you down but at least we get our 15 min of fame. I think we will have a good time with it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

The funniest thing about environmentalist whackos (EW's) is the CFL's. The cost and energy to make one, versus the cost to buy and run them are certainly worthwhile but then the cost to the consumer and taxpayers for long term cleanup will be staggering. When one of them breaks in your home and then you have to call in the DEQ and EPA to clean up the mercury, who's going to pay for it? Will they affect the resale on your home when you have to do a mercury disclosure statement much like older homes have to do a lead paint disclosure right now. In most States, if you break one of these bulbs in your home, you are supposed to bring in an environmental hazmat team to clean up and properly dispose of the mercury. Throwing them in with your garbage could be a violation of environmental laws as well. Watch and see if these same EW's who run many of our universities aren't screaming for grant money to study what to do with all of the mercury poisoning in our water aquifers from the mercury leaching from landfills in the future... because of the CFL's the EW's pushed on people today. The EW's at NPR are already lobbying Congress for money to study the issue. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 "...Experts agree that it's not easy for most people to recycle these bulbs. Even cities that have curbside recycling won't take the bulbs. So people have to take them to a hazardous-waste collection day or a special facility...." Give me liberty or give me death... just keep their damned tax-and-spend hands out of my wallet! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY Actually my wife answered an ad on craigslist because the heading was "Looking for people with lots of pets" My wife said "We Do" Take a look: www.littlefallsfarm.tripod.com though the amount of animals we have arent much for a farm, ya got to remember we are in a 1900 sq ft home and a 1/4 acre of property in the middle of surburbia. The last show they had a huge house with 8 cars/suvs and quads etc. To change all the lite bulbs to cfls they need 160 of them. Thats not us!! With that said Ive seen a couple of shows and since you do win a few grand why not. Though they tend to dumb you down but at least we get our 15 min of fame. I think we will have a good time with it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34597	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

I havent had that happen when i have blocked my email addresses from grouply -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 5:09 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP I'm not logging in to Grouply.. then they'll get my email address. LOL I posted a link for folks that want to block grouply themselves.. but it means giving grouply your email address and praying they are legitimate and don't get hacked by a spammer wanting a lot of nice fresh email addresses. Just use Gmail and set up a rule to send anything from Grouply to your spam folder. Voila! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP THe owners of this yahoo group can log into grouply and remove this group from the list of groups that grouply can access. I know its possible the Gamers_for_life group did it. We have had zero trouble with grouply since then. On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Darlene <amazonbirds@... <mailto:amazonbirds%40videotron.ca> > wrote: > how can you block grouply? > > Darlene > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34598	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: where do i find rounder rocks

I forgot to mention, these are the head-sized rocks.more difficult to pick up inconspicuously. And they have beautiful rounded/oval shapes and colors. I have a weakness for rocks sculpted into perfect shapes by water. But I also have a big yard and spend hours picking up 100s of pounds of rocks for free courtesy of the glacier.and fairly often I find a spectacular one. I have a bunch of egg shaped white ones, and one incredible purple one shaped (and sized) like a round loaf of artisan bread. They are in my tanks. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] where do i find rounder rocks Just drop your keys into the garden area and come up with a few rocks along with your keys. ;-) Rocks are really, really cheap at a landscape/garden supply place.... but nothing's cheaper than free. ;-) Just make sure you rinse them well and then boil them, no matter where you get them from to make sure you rinse off any possible pesticides, etc. This is why some aquarium sites dissuade people from using porous rocks of unknown source... you never know where it might have picked up some contamination that might leach out once it's in your tank. But even if you buy something from your local pet store or fish store, you never know if they bought it from a reliable source. Finding your own and cleaning them is just as good as buying it. Whenever I buy anything "natural", like driftwood, I still soak and boil and prep it as if I found it along side the road. Of course, with some of the stuff we find along side the road down here, we normally make Road-Kill Stew with it. You just have to get to it before the buzzards get to it. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] where do i find rounder rocks I walk into my local Barnes and Noble I'm scanning the ground and wondering if anyone would notice if I grabbed this one or that one, LOL! maybe - maybe not !!! you could always try to grab one and see if anyone says anything LOLOL Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34599	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

The owner does not need to join Grouply to block their list from Grouply. If the owner requests it, I will forward him the appropriate links. Again, Grouply does not spam. Unwanted messages may come from Grouply, but they are initiated by those drinking the Grouply kool-aid. They want you to join them for a drink. Simply report the message to abuse@.... If you do not know the person who sent it, mention that to them also. Follow the links in the email to block any further mail from Grouply. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > David Keymel > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > > The proper resolution to this issue is for the owner of this group to > (i think) join grouply and request that the group be removed from > grouply so that it cannot archive messages and send spam to members of > the group. At any rate the issue can be resolved by the owners of this > group to protect us all from the "spam" messages if they choose to do > so. > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The OK to invite everyone, in each Yahoo Group that you belong to, is part > > of the default settings when joining Grouply... as is giving them your Yahoo > > ID and password. When Grouply first started up, people HAD to give them > > their Yahoo ID and password. Now it's an option but in the joining process, > > a page comes up where they tell you to fill in your Yahoo ID and password > > and then there's a "Continue" link at the bottom. You can click continue > > without filling out the info but nothing on the page explains that so many > > folks still fall for this trick. The only thing that's going to stop > > Grouply is for people to quit joining it... or at least quit giving up their > > Yahoo ID's and passwords... but as P. T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker > > born every minute!". > > > > The good news is that Grouply isn't scamming people out of money or credit > > card info... it's just a new spin and an aggressive social networking > > site... but if people keep any of their banking or credit info in their > > yahoo account in any manner, one day Grouply will be hacked and then the > > hackers will have all of the Yahoo ID's and passwords. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > > > > According to my research, this is not true. The individual needs to OK the > > sending of invites. Grouply does the job of an ordinary mail client by > > collecting all the mailings from the Yahoo lists you subscribe to. In order > > to do this, they need your Yahoo username and password. > > > > \\Steve// > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of > >> Menagerie_Manager > >> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:30 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > >> > >> Grouply is the spammer, not the person who appears to have sent > > the message. It used to > >> be that when you signed up for Grouply, you had to give them your > > Yahoo ID and password. > >> That is no longer required, but when you sign up, the default setting > > makes it look as though > >> you still need to do that. Once they get your ID and password, > > Grouply then goes into your > >> address book and sends invites to every address there without your > > knowledge. > >> > >> DebR and the Three Goldfish > >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Brad Belikove > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:10 PM > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP > >> > >> > >> I'm receiving spam for this grouply nonsense. Can a mod look into > > this for > >> me and everyone else? I'm sure i wasn't the only one > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM, bfalank <bfalank@... > > <mailto:bfalank%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > We share the AquaticLife group. I want to add you as a friend in > > Grouply so > >> > you can see my profile with my pictures, my groups, and my > > favorite group > >> > messages. > >> > > >> > Here is the link: > >> > http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492 > > <http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=2286201&vt=32826492> . > >> > > >> > bobbi falank > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ========================== > >> > Block Grouply > >> > > Invites<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX > > <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX> > > 6JarQaJsZK > >> TQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>| Mark > >> > as > >> > > SPAM<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja > > <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja> > > rQaJsZK > >> TQvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D> > >> > > >> > Click > >> > > here<http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja > > <http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php?ea=d0JsX63GrNI5pFrNZ0ylRX6Ja> > > rQaJsZKT > >> QvwmbezopdTt%2BYOP4mlu4AEWfQRIw%3D%3D>to block all emails from > > Grouply, 495 > >> Seaport Court, Suite 103, Redwood > >> > City, CA 94063. This message was sent to you by a fellow group > > member who > >> > uses Grouply instead of email to access your shared group. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34600	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

Gosh, I don't even know if we have anyone to cleanup mercury here in my town in Alaska. I've always just thrown the broken CFL bulbs in the garbage, I didn't know any better since they don't tell us much up here in Alaska, LOL. They need to have something at the landfills where you can either dispose of the bulbs yourself or someone there can do it if you bring them in. You have a very good point though Lenny, they're pushing a product that they aren't telling people all the details about and people are disposing of them as they are used to (the garbage), and this could be a very bad thing in our future. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > The funniest thing about environmentalist whackos (EW's) is the CFL's. The > cost and energy to make one, versus the cost to buy and run them are > certainly worthwhile but then the cost to the consumer and taxpayers for > long term cleanup will be staggering. > > When one of them breaks in your home and then you have to call in the DEQ > and EPA to clean up the mercury, who's going to pay for it? Will they > affect the resale on your home when you have to do a mercury disclosure > statement much like older homes have to do a lead paint disclosure right > now. > > In most States, if you break one of these bulbs in your home, you are > supposed to bring in an environmental hazmat team to clean up and properly > dispose of the mercury. Throwing them in with your garbage could be a > violation of environmental laws as well. > > Watch and see if these same EW's who run many of our universities aren't > screaming for grant money to study what to do with all of the mercury > poisoning in our water aquifers from the mercury leaching from > landfills in > the future... because of the CFL's the EW's pushed on people today. > > The EW's at NPR are already lobbying Congress for money to study the > issue. > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 > <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > > "...Experts agree that it's not easy for most people to recycle these > bulbs. > Even cities that have curbside recycling won't take the bulbs. So people > have to take them to a hazardous-waste collection day or a special > facility...." > > Give me liberty or give me death... just keep their damned tax-and-spend > hands out of my wallet! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long > Island NY > > Actually my wife answered an ad on craigslist because the heading was > "Looking for people with lots of pets" My wife said "We Do" > > Take a look: www.littlefallsfarm.tripod.com > > though the amount of animals we have arent much for a farm, ya got to > remember we are in a 1900 sq ft home and a 1/4 acre of property in the > middle of surburbia. > > The last show they had a huge house with 8 cars/suvs and quads etc. > To change all the lite bulbs to cfls they need 160 of them. Thats not us!! > > With that said Ive seen a couple of shows and since you do win a few grand > why not. Though they tend to dumb you down but at least we get our 15 > min of > fame. I think we will have a good time with it. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34601	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

I couldn't get the link to work until I deleted the "www.". CongRATs on being chosen! I'd be too chicken. I don't like having my picture tooken. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: turbocoupe76 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY Actually my wife answered an ad on craigslist because the heading was "Looking for people with lots of pets" My wife said "We Do" Take a look: www.littlefallsfarm.tripod.com though the amount of animals we have arent much for a farm, ya got to remember we are in a 1900 sq ft home and a 1/4 acre of property in the middle of surburbia. The last show they had a huge house with 8 cars/suvs and quads etc. To change all the lite bulbs to cfls they need 160 of them. Thats not us!! With that said Ive seen a couple of shows and since you do win a few grand why not. Though they tend to dumb you down but at least we get our 15 min of fame. I think we will have a good time with it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/19/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

Here's a page I found from the gov'ment, so it's supposed to be official... lol... about CFL's, disposal and cleanup when broken in your home. http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact _Sheet_Mercury.pdf Here's G.E.'s page on cleaning up after a mercury bomb goes off in your home... oops.. I meant when a CFL breaks. LOL But they talk about opening windows and evacuating your home, turning off your central air/heat, etc. so it might as well be a mercury bomb. http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compact.htm#mercury They don't seem to say anything about needing a hazmat team in either of the above "fact sheets" but I know that I saw a segment from John Stossel's Give Me A Break where it was brought up. Maybe it's only certain States like California and some of the other left-coast States that may have stricter disposal guidelines. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY Gosh, I don't even know if we have anyone to cleanup mercury here in my town in Alaska. I've always just thrown the broken CFL bulbs in the garbage, I didn't know any better since they don't tell us much up here in Alaska, LOL. They need to have something at the landfills where you can either dispose of the bulbs yourself or someone there can do it if you bring them in. You have a very good point though Lenny, they're pushing a product that they aren't telling people all the details about and people are disposing of them as they are used to (the garbage), and this could be a very bad thing in our future. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > The funniest thing about environmentalist whackos (EW's) is the CFL's. > The cost and energy to make one, versus the cost to buy and run them > are certainly worthwhile but then the cost to the consumer and > taxpayers for long term cleanup will be staggering. > > When one of them breaks in your home and then you have to call in the > DEQ and EPA to clean up the mercury, who's going to pay for it? Will > they affect the resale on your home when you have to do a mercury > disclosure statement much like older homes have to do a lead paint > disclosure right now. > > In most States, if you break one of these bulbs in your home, you are > supposed to bring in an environmental hazmat team to clean up and > properly dispose of the mercury. Throwing them in with your garbage > could be a violation of environmental laws as well. > > Watch and see if these same EW's who run many of our universities > aren't screaming for grant money to study what to do with all of the > mercury poisoning in our water aquifers from the mercury leaching from > landfills in the future... because of the CFL's the EW's pushed on > people today. > > The EW's at NPR are already lobbying Congress for money to study the > issue. > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 > <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 > <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > > > "...Experts agree that it's not easy for most people to recycle these > bulbs. > Even cities that have curbside recycling won't take the bulbs. So > people have to take them to a hazardous-waste collection day or a > special facility...." > > Give me liberty or give me death... just keep their damned > tax-and-spend hands out of my wallet! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long > Island NY > > Actually my wife answered an ad on craigslist because the heading was > "Looking for people with lots of pets" My wife said "We Do" > > Take a look: www.littlefallsfarm.tripod.com > > though the amount of animals we have arent much for a farm, ya got to > remember we are in a 1900 sq ft home and a 1/4 acre of property in the > middle of surburbia. > > The last show they had a huge house with 8 cars/suvs and quads etc. > To change all the lite bulbs to cfls they need 160 of them. Thats not us!! > > With that said Ive seen a couple of shows and since you do win a few > grand why not. Though they tend to dumb you down but at least we get > our 15 min of fame. I think we will have a good time with it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34603	From: Lisa	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Plant id please

I need help in identifying these plants please. I have put them in my album. I think the purple/green one is a crypt. But I'm not positive. The fuzzy bright green I think is a `wort' of some kind, and the one on the driftwood an anubias? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34604	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

With apologies to Arlo Guthrie. and if you're in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's drive into a landfill wherever you are, just drive in, get out of your car, and throw a CFL into the landfill. And drive out. You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick And they will retrieve the bulb. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they retrieve the bulbs. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people driving in Tossing in a CFL and driving out, They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day driving in and throwing a CFL bulb, And driving out, And friends they may thinks it's an environmental disaster. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY > > Here's a page I found from the gov'ment, so it's supposed to be official... > lol... about CFL's, disposal and cleanup when broken in your home. > http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/ Fact > _Sheet_Mercury.pdf > > Here's G.E.'s page on cleaning up after a mercury bomb goes off in your > home... oops.. I meant when a CFL breaks. LOL But they talk about opening > windows and evacuating your home, turning off your central air/heat, etc. so > it might as well be a mercury bomb. > http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compact.htm#mercur y > > They don't seem to say anything about needing a hazmat team in either of the > above "fact sheets" but I know that I saw a segment from John Stossel's Give > Me A Break where it was brought up. Maybe it's only certain States like > California and some of the other left-coast States that may have stricter > disposal guidelines. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island > NY > > Gosh, I don't even know if we have anyone to cleanup mercury here in my town > in Alaska. I've always just thrown the broken CFL bulbs in the garbage, I > didn't know any better since they don't tell us much up here in Alaska, LOL. > They need to have something at the landfills where you can either dispose of > the bulbs yourself or someone there can do it if you bring them in. You have > a very good point though Lenny, they're pushing a product that they aren't > telling people all the details about and people are disposing of them as > they are used to (the garbage), and this could be a very bad thing in our > future. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > The funniest thing about environmentalist whackos (EW's) is the CFL's. > > The cost and energy to make one, versus the cost to buy and run them > > are certainly worthwhile but then the cost to the consumer and > > taxpayers for long term cleanup will be staggering. > > > > When one of them breaks in your home and then you have to call in the > > DEQ and EPA to clean up the mercury, who's going to pay for it? Will > > they affect the resale on your home when you have to do a mercury > > disclosure statement much like older homes have to do a lead paint > > disclosure right now. > > > > In most States, if you break one of these bulbs in your home, you are > > supposed to bring in an environmental hazmat team to clean up and > > properly dispose of the mercury. Throwing them in with your garbage > > could be a violation of environmental laws as well. > > > > Watch and see if these same EW's who run many of our universities > > aren't screaming for grant money to study what to do with all of the > > mercury poisoning in our water aquifers from the mercury leaching from > > landfills in the future... because of the CFL's the EW's pushed on > > people today. > > > > The EW's at NPR are already lobbying Congress for money to study the > > issue. > > > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 > > <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > > <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 > > <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > > > > > "...Experts agree that it's not easy for most people to recycle these > > bulbs. > > Even cities that have curbside recycling won't take the bulbs. So > > people have to take them to a hazardous-waste collection day or a > > special facility...." > > > > Give me liberty or give me death... just keep their damned > > tax-and-spend hands out of my wallet! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long > > Island NY > > > > Actually my wife answered an ad on craigslist because the heading was > > "Looking for people with lots of pets" My wife said "We Do" > > > > Take a look: www.littlefallsfarm.tripod.com > > > > though the amount of animals we have arent much for a farm, ya got to > > remember we are in a 1900 sq ft home and a 1/4 acre of property in the > > middle of surburbia. > > > > The last show they had a huge house with 8 cars/suvs and quads etc. > > To change all the lite bulbs to cfls they need 160 of them. Thats not us!! > > > > With that said Ive seen a couple of shows and since you do win a few > > grand why not. Though they tend to dumb you down but at least we get > > our 15 min of fame. I think we will have a good time with it. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34605	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

\\Steve// <file:///\\Steve\> that brings me back. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 7:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY With apologies to Arlo Guthrie. and if you're in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's drive into a landfill wherever you are, just drive in, get out of your car, and throw a CFL into the landfill. And drive out. You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick And they will retrieve the bulb. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they retrieve the bulbs. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people driving in Tossing in a CFL and driving out, They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day driving in and throwing a CFL bulb, And driving out, And friends they may thinks it's an environmental disaster. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY > > Here's a page I found from the gov'ment, so it's supposed to be official... > lol... about CFL's, disposal and cleanup when broken in your home. > http://www.energyst <http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/> ar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/ Fact > _Sheet_Mercury.pdf > > Here's G.E.'s page on cleaning up after a mercury bomb goes off in your > home... oops.. I meant when a CFL breaks. LOL But they talk about opening > windows and evacuating your home, turning off your central air/heat, etc. so > it might as well be a mercury bomb. > http://www.gelighti <http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compact.htm#mercur> ng.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compact.htm#mercur y > > They don't seem to say anything about needing a hazmat team in either of the > above "fact sheets" but I know that I saw a segment from John Stossel's Give > Me A Break where it was brought up. Maybe it's only certain States like > California and some of the other left-coast States that may have stricter > disposal guidelines. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island > NY > > Gosh, I don't even know if we have anyone to cleanup mercury here in my town > in Alaska. I've always just thrown the broken CFL bulbs in the garbage, I > didn't know any better since they don't tell us much up here in Alaska, LOL. > They need to have something at the landfills where you can either dispose of > the bulbs yourself or someone there can do it if you bring them in. You have > a very good point though Lenny, they're pushing a product that they aren't > telling people all the details about and people are disposing of them as > they are used to (the garbage), and this could be a very bad thing in our > future. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > The funniest thing about environmentalist whackos (EW's) is the CFL's. > > The cost and energy to make one, versus the cost to buy and run them > > are certainly worthwhile but then the cost to the consumer and > > taxpayers for long term cleanup will be staggering. > > > > When one of them breaks in your home and then you have to call in the > > DEQ and EPA to clean up the mercury, who's going to pay for it? Will > > they affect the resale on your home when you have to do a mercury > > disclosure statement much like older homes have to do a lead paint > > disclosure right now. > > > > In most States, if you break one of these bulbs in your home, you are > > supposed to bring in an environmental hazmat team to clean up and > > properly dispose of the mercury. Throwing them in with your garbage > > could be a violation of environmental laws as well. > > > > Watch and see if these same EW's who run many of our universities > > aren't screaming for grant money to study what to do with all of the > > mercury poisoning in our water aquifers from the mercury leaching from > > landfills in the future... because of the CFL's the EW's pushed on > > people today. > > > > The EW's at NPR are already lobbying Congress for money to study the > > issue. > > > > http://www.npr. <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 > > <http://www.npr. <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > > <http://www.npr. <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 > > <http://www.npr. <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > > > > > "...Experts agree that it's not easy for most people to recycle these > > bulbs. > > Even cities that have curbside recycling won't take the bulbs. So > > people have to take them to a hazardous-waste collection day or a > > special facility...." > > > > Give me liberty or give me death... just keep their damned > > tax-and-spend hands out of my wallet! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long > > Island NY > > > > Actually my wife answered an ad on craigslist because the heading was > > "Looking for people with lots of pets" My wife said "We Do" > > > > Take a look: www.littlefallsfarm.tripod.com > > > > though the amount of animals we have arent much for a farm, ya got to > > remember we are in a 1900 sq ft home and a 1/4 acre of property in the > > middle of surburbia. > > > > The last show they had a huge house with 8 cars/suvs and quads etc. > > To change all the lite bulbs to cfls they need 160 of them. Thats not us!! > > > > With that said Ive seen a couple of shows and since you do win a few > > grand why not. Though they tend to dumb you down but at least we get > > our 15 min of fame. I think we will have a good time with it. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34606	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY

Whew.. I'm glad I didn't recognize them lyrics... it means I'm not as old as some accuse me of being. I had to Google a little to find they were from "Alice's Restaurant"... but I did recognize Arlo Guthrie as the singer of "City Of New Orleans"... since I'm a native son! ;-) I had to read a little Wiki on Arlo and was surprised to see he was a supporter of Ron Paul in 2008.... now that's an eclectic mix. Heck... Ron Paul is an eclectic mix all by himself. Now.. what was this thread about again? Oh yeah... getting "Wa$ted"... now that's something Arlo and Ron might have in common! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 7:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY \\Steve// <file:///\\Steve\> that brings me back. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 7:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY With apologies to Arlo Guthrie. and if you're in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's drive into a landfill wherever you are, just drive in, get out of your car, and throw a CFL into the landfill. And drive out. You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick And they will retrieve the bulb. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they retrieve the bulbs. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people driving in Tossing in a CFL and driving out, They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day driving in and throwing a CFL bulb, And driving out, And friends they may thinks it's an environmental disaster. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island NY > > Here's a page I found from the gov'ment, so it's supposed to be official... > lol... about CFL's, disposal and cleanup when broken in your home. > http://www.energyst <http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/ <http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/> > ar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/ Fact > _Sheet_Mercury.pdf > > Here's G.E.'s page on cleaning up after a mercury bomb goes off in your > home... oops.. I meant when a CFL breaks. LOL But they talk about opening > windows and evacuating your home, turning off your central air/heat, etc. so > it might as well be a mercury bomb. > http://www.gelighti <http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compact.htm#mercur <http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compact.htm#mercur> > ng.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compact.htm#mercur y > > They don't seem to say anything about needing a hazmat team in either of the > above "fact sheets" but I know that I saw a segment from John Stossel's Give > Me A Break where it was brought up. Maybe it's only certain States like > California and some of the other left-coast States that may have stricter > disposal guidelines. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long Island > NY > > Gosh, I don't even know if we have anyone to cleanup mercury here in my town > in Alaska. I've always just thrown the broken CFL bulbs in the garbage, I > didn't know any better since they don't tell us much up here in Alaska, LOL. > They need to have something at the landfills where you can either dispose of > the bulbs yourself or someone there can do it if you bring them in. You have > a very good point though Lenny, they're pushing a product that they aren't > telling people all the details about and people are disposing of them as > they are used to (the garbage), and this could be a very bad thing in our > future. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > The funniest thing about environmentalist whackos (EW's) is the CFL's. > > The cost and energy to make one, versus the cost to buy and run them > > are certainly worthwhile but then the cost to the consumer and > > taxpayers for long term cleanup will be staggering. > > > > When one of them breaks in your home and then you have to call in the > > DEQ and EPA to clean up the mercury, who's going to pay for it? Will > > they affect the resale on your home when you have to do a mercury > > disclosure statement much like older homes have to do a lead paint > > disclosure right now. > > > > In most States, if you break one of these bulbs in your home, you are > > supposed to bring in an environmental hazmat team to clean up and > > properly dispose of the mercury. Throwing them in with your garbage > > could be a violation of environmental laws as well. > > > > Watch and see if these same EW's who run many of our universities > > aren't screaming for grant money to study what to do with all of the > > mercury poisoning in our water aquifers from the mercury leaching from > > landfills in the future... because of the CFL's the EW's pushed on > > people today. > > > > The EW's at NPR are already lobbying Congress for money to study the > > issue. > > > > http://www.npr. <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 > > <http://www.npr. <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > > <http://www.npr. <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 > > <http://www.npr. <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198 <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198> > > > > > "...Experts agree that it's not easy for most people to recycle these > > bulbs. > > Even cities that have curbside recycling won't take the bulbs. So > > people have to take them to a hazardous-waste collection day or a > > special facility...." > > > > Give me liberty or give me death... just keep their damned > > tax-and-spend hands out of my wallet! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The TV Show "Wa$ted" is coming to Long > > Island NY > > > > Actually my wife answered an ad on craigslist because the heading was > > "Looking for people with lots of pets" My wife said "We Do" > > > > Take a look: www.littlefallsfarm.tripod.com > > > > though the amount of animals we have arent much for a farm, ya got to > > remember we are in a 1900 sq ft home and a 1/4 acre of property in the > > middle of surburbia. > > > > The last show they had a huge house with 8 cars/suvs and quads etc. > > To change all the lite bulbs to cfls they need 160 of them. Thats not us!! > > > > With that said Ive seen a couple of shows and since you do win a few > > grand why not. Though they tend to dumb you down but at least we get > > our 15 min of fame. I think we will have a good time with it. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34607	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: RECEIVING SPAM FROM THIS GROUP

please send me the proper link because i definitely not want grouply in my lists :)) thanks :))) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34608	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: water tests

i tested my water this morning for ammonia and nitrates both results came back 0 ppm so now i am off to get the water test done at the pet store to see what they have to say, i was told they do 8 different tests also i used some sea salt for human consumption 1 tsp for 29 gallons 2 days in a row (it has iodine in it, not sure how much iodine so i used a lot less than what i read on the net that said to use 1 TBP for 30 gallons...) the Oranda's tailfin seems to look a bit better, not as "fuzzy" in the small area that was affected. should i use aquarium salt or methylene blue to continue treatment? i also read that plecotomus are herbivores and i should give them thawed out frozen peas once or twice a week, is this true? one pleco is 10 years old the other one about 1 year old the 2 Oranda are around 1 year old including the tail they are about 6 -7 inches long, one is fatter than the other LOL the cat fish i have no idea how old it is, will have to ask my friend is she knows Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34609	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help until Monday? - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.. the Britta isn't removing the ammonia > but > > then > > > > activated > > > > > carbon will > > > > > > not remove ammonia so that's to be expected. A- > > Carbon > > > also > > > > does > > > > > not remove > > > > > > nitrite or nitrates. The Britta filter is > probably > > just > > > an A- > > > > > carbon filter. > > > > > > I had a Pur filter as an attachment to my sink > in > > my old > > > home > > > > and > > > > > I would > > > > > > use that for doing the 1G or 2G PWC's on my > Betta > > tank > > > but it > > > > > simply isn't > > > > > > practical to use for goldfish with the amount > of > > water > > > that > > > > > you'll be > > > > > > changing out with them each week. The reason I > used > > it on > > > my > > > > > Betta tank was > > > > > > because the dechlor products I use are not set > up > > to dose > > > 1G > > > > or > > > > > 2G of water. > > > > > > 1ml treats 10G to 20G so I would need a very > > precise > > > syringe > > > > to > > > > > worry about > > > > > > treating 1G or 2G of water so I just used the > Pur > > filter > > > for > > > > > simplicity... > > > > > > but it's not cost effective on larger water > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a bigger tank, you'll still be doing > 25% > > PWC's > > > on a > > > > > weekly basis. > > > > > > Unless your utility water quality reports are > the > > worst > > > in > > > > the > > > > > world, I > > > > > > don't think there's a need to use the Britta > filter > > for > > > the > > > > > goldfish tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > A $6.00 - 8 oz. TopFin Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2752208 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > > productId=2752208> or > > > > > a $5.00 - > > > > > > 16 oz. bottle of API Dechlor > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > productId=2754035 > > > > > > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp? <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?> > > > > > productId=2754035> > > > > > would last > > > > > > you well over a year. An 8 oz. bottle of TopFin > Tap > > Water > > > > > Dechlorinator will > > > > > > treat 2,360 gallons of tap water. If you have a > 55G > > tank > > > and > > > > > changing 25% > > > > > > weekly (apx. 13G), this bottle would last you > over > > 3 > > > > years ... > > > > > probably much > > > > > > less expensive than changing out the carbon > filters > > on > > > the > > > > > Britta. The 16 > > > > > > oz. bottle of API is even less expensive and > treats > > more > > > > water > > > > > but it's > > > > > > harder to find at the LFS or PetsMart so I've > been > > > getting > > > > the > > > > > TopFin 8 oz. > > > > > > lately. If placing a larger order, I would > order it > > > online > > > > from > > > > > whomever I'm > > > > > > ordering from but the shipping costs aren't > worth > > paying > > > more > > > > for > > > > > shipping > > > > > > than the product... at least not to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could also do the 48 hour baseline on your > tap > > water > > > > without > > > > > using the > > > > > > Britta since that will be more likely what you > will > > use > > > in > > > > the > > > > > future. Test > > > > > > it before and after using your dechlor since > the > > dechlor > > > will > > > > > break the > > > > > > chloramine bond and change the chemistry a > little. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry. I thought I had mentioned that the > water > > goes > > > > through > > > > > a Brita > > > > > > filter that removes the chlorine and other > nasty > > things > > > (I'll > > > > > search down > > > > > > the instruction insert. I saved it somewhere.). > The > > zero > > > > reading > > > > > is right > > > > > > after it comes from the tap and passes through > the > > > filter. I > > > > > don't add > > > > > > anything else to it. Would it be better to use > > straight > > > tap > > > > water > > > > > and > > > > > > dechlorinate with tablets? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll lower the level of the water and see if > the > > extra > > > > aeration > > > > > helps Raven > > > > > > any. > > > > > > > > > > > > Santa Baby! > > > > > > Put that big tank under my tree > > > > > > for me! > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:19 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Just to double check. Did you add your > dechlor > > > product > > > > (which > > > > > one do you > > > > > > use?) to the water being tested on the 48 hour > > baseline? > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you test Ammonia the first day before > adding > > the > > > dechlor? > > > > If > > > > > you didn't > > > > > > see an ammonia level before adding dechlor and > did > > see > > > the > > > > 0.5ppm > > > > > after > > > > > > adding dechlor, then that pretty much verifies > that > > your > > > tap > > > > > water is > > > > > > treated with chloramine, which is a chemical > made > > by > > > binding > > > > > chlorine and > > > > > > ammonia. While the 0.5ppm of ammonia seems > > alarming, > > > > especially > > > > > when cycling > > > > > > a new tank with fish, when we do 25% PWC's on a > > fully > > > cycled > > > > > tank, it will > > > > > > only be adding 0.125ppm of ammonia which is > easily > > > handled by > > > > the > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria that we've grown, mostly in the filter > > system > > > but > > > > also > > > > > in other > > > > > > surface areas of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes treating sick fish is just as rough > as > > the > > > sickness > > > > > itself. The > > > > > > fish has to work a lot harder to maintain > > osmoregulatory > > > > balance > > > > > with the > > > > > > added salt in the tank. And then you are also > going > > > through > > > > > cycling issues, > > > > > > although you are keeping things in good shape > by > > doing > > > your > > > > > testing and > > > > > > frequent PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have plenty of aeration in the tank? > > Goldfish > > > needs > > > > lots > > > > > of O2 and if > > > > > > they aren't getting enough, they will become > > > > sluggish/lethargic. > > > > > This can be > > > > > > accomplished by having an airstone or by > lowering > > the > > > water > > > > level > > > > > a little.. > > > > > > even a half inch.. so that the filter returning > > water > > > causes > > > > more > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation and/or splashing. This will increase > > > > ingasing/outgasing > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface to remove CO2 from the water and add O2 > to > > the > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully all three of your guys/gals will make > it > > and > > > then > > > > > you'll have to > > > > > > start worrying about that bigger tank! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:51 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - 48 Hour Baseline: pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .5ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > 0ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > > > > - Raven is still eating. At least that's a good > > sign. She > > > is > > > > > doing a lot of > > > > > > resting on the bottom when there's no fresh > food. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:13 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday Evening Check in (Day 6 of Salt > treatment): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bad news. Raven (the black goldfish with the > bug- > > eyes) > > > is > > > > > hiding under the > > > > > > decorative bridge looking as bad as CB was > before I > > > started > > > > > adding the salt. > > > > > > She does come out to eat, bu<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34610	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: results from pet store

PH: 7.4 ammonia: 0 Nitrate: 0 Nitrite: 0 Phosphate: 5 Nicole at the store told me that everything else was normal and i was overfeeding my fish she told me NEVER add anything to change (+/-) the PH levels because i will have to spend all my time re-adjusting them she also said the 2 filters i have are ok Aqua clear 30 and an Aqua clear 50 for my 29 gallon tank she said i will have to get a much bigger tank soon because my fish will outgrow it fairly fast :) she seems to know what she is talking about i bought a small bottle of P Clear particulate water clarifier also a small box of aquarium salt she told me to use 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34611	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store

DO NOT use that water clarifier junk. Bring it back. It messes up the fishes gills and they have to consume/absorb it since they live, eat and drink everything you put in the water. Remember my golden rule... 95% of the stuff/junk on the pet stores shelves are not needed 95% of the time. Just a dechlor product unless treating with a particular medication for a diagnosed problem. Nothing else! If you want to polish your water, there are filter media pads that can be used in your filters to remove smaller particles... but remember that with your tank being overstocked and goldfish being constant foragers, there will always be stuff floating around in the water from the goldfish stirring up the detritus in the gravel. See my "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" article on my blog for the types of filter pads that I use for polishing the water. I'm concerned about your test results. Since you have 0.0 for nitrate, then you should be getting a reading for ammonia and nitrite, considering the bioload in your tank.... unless... Do you have Zeolite or some kind of ammonia removing filter media in your filter system? I know the AquaClear's come with biomax which are about 1/2" long cylindrical shaped bio-media... which are a good thing for the nitrifying bacteria to grow/live on... but Zeolite is often sold to unsuspecting newbie's. It's a whitish colored rock... like white carbon. While it seems like a good thing, it's actually not, since it sucks up the ammonia that your nitrifying bacteria need to grow the proper sized colony. That's the only thing that would lead to your tank having 0.0 levels for all three nitrogenous compounds. When newbie's get lured into using zeolite, they then have to constantly monitor ammonia levels since the zeolite will fill up and then you won't have any nitrifying bacteria to handle the ammonia overload so the tank will quickly build up toxic levels of ammonia. Unless she has been keeping her own fish tank(s) successfully for a few years, she likely does not know very much. What they do in the store to keep the fish alive for short terms is a LOT different than what is needed to keep them alive for long term. There's no need to add salt to your tank, except for when being used for a medicinal treatment... and there's no need to buy "aquarium salt"... it's the same as plain old table salt (NaCl = Sodium Chloride). Even the "Sea Salt" that is being promoted on people is just plain old salt. One teaspoon per 5G is just a waste of salt. It does nothing from a medical standpoint since it's not enough to kill any pathogens and "freshwater" fish do not need salt in their water. Save the salt for if/when you might need it for medicinal purposes, which would be at a much higher level of 2-3 teaspoons per gallon for certain external parasites/bacteria. If you ever run out, just buy the plain salt at your grocery and save your money. It's probably a fraction of the cost of the "aquarium salt" they sold you. I told my LFS that they should just go to the grocery store next door and buy the 2 pound round boxes of plain salt and sell it on their shelves instead of ripping people off with "aquarium salt". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 2:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] results from pet store PH: 7.4 ammonia: 0 Nitrate: 0 Nitrite: 0 Phosphate: 5 Nicole at the store told me that everything else was normal and i was overfeeding my fish she told me NEVER add anything to change (+/-) the PH levels because i will have to spend all my time re-adjusting them she also said the 2 filters i have are ok Aqua clear 30 and an Aqua clear 50 for my 29 gallon tank she said i will have to get a much bigger tank soon because my fish will outgrow it fairly fast :) she seems to know what she is talking about i bought a small bottle of P Clear particulate water clarifier also a small box of aquarium salt she told me to use 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34612	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without knowing what's available. Do they have a website? Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. which often leads to swim bladder disorders. Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will slowly reduce the salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help until Monday? - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34613	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store

not sure what it is called they are white "chips" in a bag from aqua clear to use in the filter, filter has a particle sponge, the white chips to remove ammonia and the charcoal (bottom, middle, top) according to the directions on the aqua clear refill boxes but Zeolite is often sold to unsuspecting newbie's. It's a whitish colored rock... like white carbon. i think it is zeolite ........ should i remove it? or remove the one from the Aqua clear 50 and leave the smaller one for a few days for the water levels to adjust properly? when i added the salt a few days ago to the tank, it seems to have helped clear up the whitish fuzzy patch near the tailfin. since i have the salt i will keep it in case i need emergency medical treatment Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests

I just answered your other post but wanted to cover the other questions not covered in the other post. Not all pleco's are herbivores... in fact, very few of them are. Most of them are omnivores. You will have a very difficult time feeding a pleco green pea "meat" since the goldfish will beat him to it. Did you ever identify what kind of pleco and the other catfish that you have? There are literally thousands of species of catfish and hundreds of species of plecos. Do you have two plecos, a catfish and the two goldfish? If yes, you really, really, really need to decide which fish you want to keep and rehome the others to proper sized tanks. You will constantly have health problems trying to keep all of these BIG fish in an undersized tank. Just the two goldfish in a 30G tank is one goldfish too many. With five supposed-to-be BIG fish in that tank, you are doing you and the fish a disservice. I understand you just adopted them but you have to make the hard choices now. Check with your LFS. Once the fish are healthy, they should be willing to let you trade in the extra fish for store credit. I got $25.00 credit on a 10" common pleco that I rescued from a 10G tank. It was only 4" long after two years in the 10G tank and grew to 10" after 18 months in my 65G tank but then it needed an even bigger home. I was planning a 125G but Hurricane Katrina changed my plans so I had to rehome the big guy. A common pleco that is 10 years old should be around 15"+ body length.. even up to two feet long. If he's not that big, then he is either severely stunted from being in the undersized tank or he's not a common pleco. Pics would be helpful. For future reference, always measure fish NOT including their tails since some fish have small tails and other fish, like fancy goldfish have long flowing tails. The tail does not add to the bioload of the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] water tests i tested my water this morning for ammonia and nitrates both results came back 0 ppm so now i am off to get the water test done at the pet store to see what they have to say, i was told they do 8 different tests also i used some sea salt for human consumption 1 tsp for 29 gallons 2 days in a row (it has iodine in it, not sure how much iodine so i used a lot less than what i read on the net that said to use 1 TBP for 30 gallons...) the Oranda's tailfin seems to look a bit better, not as "fuzzy" in the small area that was affected. should i use aquarium salt or methylene blue to continue treatment? i also read that plecotomus are herbivores and i should give them thawed out frozen peas once or twice a week, is this true? one pleco is 10 years old the other one about 1 year old the 2 Oranda are around 1 year old including the tail they are about 6 -7 inches long, one is fatter than the other LOL the cat fish i have no idea how old it is, will have to ask my friend is she knows Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34615	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: gravel cleaner

Lenny, it is time for me to get a gravel cleaner/vacuum for my 10 gal tank. What brand do you suggest. Your expertise is appreciated and also because I am a nosey senior, how the heck did you get so knowledgeable about all this aquarium/fish. Carole in Las Vegas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darlene" <amazonbirds@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] results from pet store ---------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34616	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store

since i have 2 aqua clear filters, what should i look for in the polishing pads? does it have a specific name? the lady who had the tank before me had it for years and the fish were fine until some kid dumped garden earth in the tank (it used to sit in the entranceway to our apartment building) that killed the 3 goldfish that were in the tank but not the 2 plecostomus and catfish so she went out and bought the 2 Oranda to replace the fish when i get the new tank next week, i think i will move one filter to the new tank to help with the bacterial population also i ant to get 2 silver molllies and 2 sunset platys can they live together without fighting? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34617	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store

Well.. I want to make sure that it's zeolite and not the biomax that comes with AquaClear filters. Here's the picture of BioMax... second picture down with the label "biological media" next to it, while it's still new in the plastic bag. The 7th pic also shows the Biomax in the little nylon media sock. AquaClear also sells the zeolite so we really need to clarify what you have in the filter... since there are many other brands of zeolite that might look different from the AquaClear brand. http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html AquaClear's Zeolite - http://www.arcatapet.com/fullsize/12525.jpg Have you been adding any meds to the tank yet.. other than the salt? If yes, then you should have removed the carbon. This is necessary when treating with any meds except when using salt. You need to start checking out here first before adding stuff to the tank. We still need to find out what kind of catfish you have. Some FW catfish can tolerate a little salt, others HATE salt and it will cause them many problems. As far as the carbon, really it can be removed completely all of the time. There's no need to run carbon in a filter as a general rule... only when needed to remove a medication or contamination from the tank. It's just something the filter people try to sell people on using to take gold from your pocket and put it in theirs... another golden rule violation. There are many forms of zeolite/ammonia removing chips... another golden rule violation. It's a natural geologic rock and then is broken up into various sizes and even formed into pellets depending on who's selling it. Let me know if you have Biomax or if it doesn't look like Biomax, then it may be zeolite. Pics would be helpful. DO NOT REMOVE IT YET.. although we will be removing it if that is what you have. I'm concerned since if you have zeolite, then adding salt to the water could cause the zeolite to release the ammonia so test your water again and give us numbers. This is why it's important to NOT add stuff to your water until you know what you have going on it already. Hopefully, the low level of salt that you have added will not cause the zeolite.. if you have it.. to release any of the sucked up ammonia. Zeolite only lasts for 5-7 days and then has to be replaced or recharged so if it's been in your tank longer than that it's likely not removing any more ammonia anyhow which is another reason why I'm concerned about the test results. Salt will help fish a little but it can also hurt them. It's the chloride in salt that will help fish with gill function but the sodium will cause them osmoregulatory issues and kidney problems.. just like with us humans who eat too much salt. I seem to remember that you had more than just the ammonia and nitrate kits from API. Since I don't trust your pet stores test results, go ahead and test your tank water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and post your test results and also post the pet stores just so we can see if they match up. I am copy/pasting your original post down below in this thread so keep the thread intact so we don't have to go back and find your previous posts. God.. sometimes I really hate fish and pet stores for the trouble they cause people. LOL I'm all for capitalism but not for ripping people off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] results from pet store not sure what it is called they are white "chips" in a bag from aqua clear to use in the filter, filter has a particle sponge, the white chips to remove ammonia and the charcoal (bottom, middle, top) according to the directions on the aqua clear refill boxes but Zeolite is often sold to unsuspecting newbie's. It's a whitish colored rock... like white carbon. i think it is zeolite ........ should i remove it? or remove the one from the Aqua clear 50 and leave the smaller one for a few days for the water levels to adjust properly? when i added the salt a few days ago to the tank, it seems to have helped clear up the whitish fuzzy patch near the tailfin. since i have the salt i will keep it in case i need emergency medical treatment Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ----------- PH: 7.4 ammonia: 0 Nitrate: 0 Nitrite: 0 Phosphate: 5 Nicole at the store told me that everything else was normal and i was overfeeding my fish she told me NEVER add anything to change (+/-) the PH levels because i will have to spend all my time re-adjusting them she also said the 2 filters i have are ok Aqua clear 30 and an Aqua clear 50 for my 29 gallon tank she said i will have to get a much bigger tank soon because my fish will outgrow it fairly fast :) she seems to know what she is talking about i bought a small bottle of P Clear particulate water clarifier also a small box of aquarium salt she told me to use 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water Darlene ---------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34618	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: gravel cleaner

Anyone who has a fish tank should have a gravel siphon/cleaner. For a 10G tank, the least expensive, smallest one they sell is suitable. Usually a 1" to 1-1/2" diameter siphon tube, connected to 3/8" diameter 5' long drain line. Deep siphoning the gravel should be done starting after the first week the tank has fish in it. For planted tanks, things are a little different... or if you have a 10G Cherry Shrimp tank, like I do, with dozens of baby 1/4" long cherry shrimp running around, then siphoning the gravel has to be put off... but I have lots of live plants in the tank so their roots help keep the gravel clean as well as the other clean up critters in the tank like snails and planaria. Fortunately, I learned most of what I know from other people's mistakes... although I made my fair share in the beginning also. Reading info in the many forums that I've been involved in over the years and helping people when I felt I was knowledgeable enough to do so... but reading what the experts were saying and learning from them when I first got started. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]gravel cleaner Lenny, it is time for me to get a gravel cleaner/vacuum for my 10 gal tank. What brand do you suggest. Your expertise is appreciated and also because I am a nosey senior, how the heck did you get so knowledgeable about all this aquarium/fish. Carole in Las Vegas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darlene" <amazonbirds@... <mailto:amazonbirds%40videotron.ca> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] results from pet store

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34619	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store

NOOOOOO.. do not get any more fish. Unless your new tank is going to be a 150 gallon tank. If it's going to be similar to the one you have, you will still be severely overstocked... unless you are planning on trading in the catfish and just putting one goldfish in each 30G tank. You still haven't told us what kind of catfish/plecos they are. Saying "it's a pleco" is like saying "it's a dog"... well.. is it a Chihuahua or a Great Dane? Saying "it's a catfish" means it could be a 1" species or a SIX FOOT species. As far as what the person did that had the tank before you... remember what your momma told you about kids jumping off a bridge? Just because they do it, doesn't mean you should. Learn from other's mistakes.. don't repeat them. Those fish were not "fine". They were too many BIG fish in an undersized tank. Goldfish should get HUGE and common pleco's should get HUGE and common goldfish should live for over 20 years (the world record is 43 years right now) and fancy goldfish should live for well over 10 years. Pleco's should live for 15-20+ years. Your idea of moving one of the filters would normally be considered a good thing but we don't even know if you have any good nitrifying bacteria in your filters. If you've been running zeolite in the tank, then you may not have any. We still need to figure out what you have and then work up a plan to cycle the tanks/filters. Copy/paste this thread into the other thread if/when replying to either. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] results from pet store since i have 2 aqua clear filters, what should i look for in the polishing pads? does it have a specific name? the lady who had the tank before me had it for years and the fish were fine until some kid dumped garden earth in the tank (it used to sit in the entranceway to our apartment building) that killed the 3 goldfish that were in the tank but not the 2 plecostomus and catfish so she went out and bought the 2 Oranda to replace the fish when i get the new tank next week, i think i will move one filter to the new tank to help with the bacterial population also i ant to get 2 silver molllies and 2 sunset platys can they live together without fighting? Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34620	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store

as far as i can tell they are zeolite, it used to have the larger white pellets, but i could not find any at the local pet store and bought these ones since the filter cartridges had not been changed since ????? i have had the tank since end october and was just cleaning the filters and putting then old stuff back in i created an album called Darlene's orandas at the group site some of the pictures are not great i can send you 2 videos i took that show the catfish and plecos really well Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34621	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store

forgot to tell you that i did buy the aqua clear brand and the box looks identical to the second picture of zeolites Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34622	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store

I just looked at your pics. Since the pleco (I only saw one) was listed as being 9 inches long, it's not a dwarf species but it also does not appear to be a common pleco. I'm not familiar with that species. If someone else out here doesn't identify it, you can go to either http://www.PlanetCatfish.com or http://www.PlecoFanatics.com and post a pic in their "Identify My Fish" forum to try and figure out what it is. Other than Albino variants, I do not recall seeing a solid colored pleco like yours... but then your's doesn't look like it's an Albino variant either. Here's the link to the picture for any others who might want to try and ID it. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/525705630/pic/1601357 774/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc I couldn't make out the other catfish picture and the other pleco pictured behind the big bronze colored one could be a common pleco but a better picture would be needed. If they are both common plecos, you would need at least a 125G tank just for them... and then you could add some smaller tropical fish to add a little variety but NO other BIG fish in the 125G. You will also need a bigger tank for the two goldfish. Unless your budget allows you to get these bigger tanks, then you should really consider rehoming the pleco's and the catfish and then keep the goldfish. You could get a matching 29G to go next to your existing 29G tank... and maybe use one of the aquarium bridges that we talked about out here recently to connect the two tanks so at least you would be providing 29G per goldfish in total water volume. Once again, copy/paste everything into one thread when replying... so we don't have three or four threads going in the same subject. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] results from pet store since i have 2 aqua clear filters, what should i look for in the polishing pads? does it have a specific name? the lady who had the tank before me had it for years and the fish were fine until some kid dumped garden earth in the tank (it used to sit in the entranceway to our apartment building) that killed the 3 goldfish that were in the tank but not the 2 plecostomus and catfish so she went out and bought the 2 Oranda to replace the fish when i get the new tank next week, i think i will move one filter to the new tank to help with the bacterial population also i ant to get 2 silver molllies and 2 sunset platys can they live together without fighting? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34623	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: results from pet store

There was no need to trash the biomax. It's good forever and houses the good nitrifying bacteria. If you haven't done so, go to my blog and read my long article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" which will cover all of these things. You will need a master test kit or at least the nitrite test kit to go with your current ammonia and nitrate test kits to start planning the cycling with fish process BUT you will have to rehome the plecos and catfish. There is NO WAY in the world that you can cycle a 29G tank with FIVE BIG FISH in it. You would be doing PWC's 20 times a day to keep the ammonia level at a low enough level. Just the two goldfish will even have you doing lots of PWC's. Once you have rehomed the pleco's and have all of the test kits, then we can start the "Cycling With Fish" process which will be a 2-6 week long process. Hopefully you have some nitrifying bacteria living in your tank already but it's not likely since you have 0.0ppm nitrate level. If you have none, then it will be a 6 week long process unless you buy Dr. Tim's One And Only which will instantly cycle a tank for a normal bioload.. but not for your current bioload. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] results from pet store as far as i can tell they are zeolite, it used to have the larger white pellets, but i could not find any at the local pet store and bought these ones since the filter cartridges had not been changed since ????? i have had the tank since end october and was just cleaning the filters and putting then old stuff back in i created an album called Darlene's orandas at the group site some of the pictures are not great i can send you 2 videos i took that show the catfish and plecos really well Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34624	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests

Do you have two plecos, a catfish and the two goldfish? yes i do, i thought 2 plecos was a bit much for the tank because they do get very big i was planning on moving the younger one to the new tank when i get it IF it is at least 29 gallons. otherwise will see about selling it to the pet store for a credit maybe they will take him for the 4 fish i want for the new tank, 2 silver swordtail mollies and 2 sunset platys :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34625	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests

With only a second 29G tank, you CANNOT get more fish. I've already explained that you will need this much water just for the goldfish. Further, goldfish are cool/cold water fish and the other fish you are mentioning are tropical fish. If you had large enough tank(s), there are other fish that are cool/cold water fish that could go with goldfish but goldfish are best kept as a species only fish with the exception of a dwarf pleco variety that can be kept with some fancy goldfish as long as the tank is heated to at least 74F-76F since pleco's are tropical fish also but do OK in the mid 70's also.. which is OK for fancy goldfish as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water tests Do you have two plecos, a catfish and the two goldfish? yes i do, i thought 2 plecos was a bit much for the tank because they do get very big i was planning on moving the younger one to the new tank when i get it IF it is at least 29 gallons. otherwise will see about selling it to the pet store for a credit maybe they will take him for the 4 fish i want for the new tank, 2 silver swordtail mollies and 2 sunset platys :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34626	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests

With only a second 29G tank, you CANNOT get more fish. I've already explained that you will need this much water just for the goldfish got this post after i had posted, so for now will move one gold fish to new tank with cat fish and sell the other plecos i would love the tank i saw in the pet store..... it was 6 or 7 feet long by 2.5 feet high and about 2.5 - 3 feet deep my dream tank it was only $1,499.99 ....... on sale !! everything in Canada is way more than in the states !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34627	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: retested water

just re-tested the water and the nitrite is still 0 ppm the ammonia is still 0 ppm will have to get a new ph tester. the one i had was old, no chart and no test tube :( Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34628	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Plecos

as far as i could learn both plecos are common plecos so one of the 2 must go the pale one is older and lost his color over time Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34629	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: retested water

You can use the test tubes from the other test kits... you should be rinsing them out with tap water good after each test anyhow. You can view the Nitrate color card (and all of the other API test kit color cards) on this page or download and print the card. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Downloads.html Do you have the instructions still? I could type them out if you don't. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] retested water just re-tested the water and the nitrite is still 0 ppm the ammonia is still 0 ppm will have to get a new ph tester. the one i had was old, no chart and no test tube :( Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34630	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Wa$ted!

Sorry everyone my wifes website is : littlefallsfarm.tripod.com I always add the www. but it doesnt work for that site sorry!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34631	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: fish fighting or trying to mate?

my 2 orandas in the last day or 2 have been acting different. the smaller one is chasing the larger one and trying to get under its tail..... are they fighting or trying to mate ?? i will be glad when i can get the new tank here next week get it set up and separate the fish !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Plecos

They shouldn't turn pale like that. When fish turn pale, it means they are stressed. If that was a common pleco with the various brown/black pattern and is now that color, he is really stressed. Another thing I haven't mentioned is that when common pleco's get big, they need plenty to eat and many people do not feed them enough since pleco's also poop a lot... anyhow... they've been known to go after slow swimming wide body fish like goldfish. You should also have driftwood in a tank with plecos as they gnaw on the driftwood as part of their diet. They like a high bulk fiber intake as well. Should you get that really BIG tank and decide to keep the pleco's, here's a couple of threads on feeding plecos. http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=74 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plecos as far as i could learn both plecos are common plecos so one of the 2 must go the pale one is older and lost his color over time Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34633	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: fish fighting or trying to mate?

That is typical of mating behavior. Here's a page about goldfish and their breeding/mating habits and how to identify males and females... males are easier to ID. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fish fighting or trying to mate? my 2 orandas in the last day or 2 have been acting different. the smaller one is chasing the larger one and trying to get under its tail..... are they fighting or trying to mate ?? i will be glad when i can get the new tank here next week get it set up and separate the fish !! Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34634	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: retested water

Do you have the instructions still? I could type them out if you don't. yes i still have the instructions, the english part is gone but i read the spanish part (similar to french) 3 drops of indicator to 5ml of water !! have part of the color chart but will check against the online on to be sure ! :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34635	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: test kits

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit at Wal-Mart for $17.64 - The Freshwater Master Test Kit Includes Tests for: Freshwater pH, High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness) (You will need a separate Nitrate test kit) i looked at the kits at the pet store, the API kit on Sale was 40$ the bigger one that does 10 different tests was 120$ on sale !!!! will check out wal-mart and hope they have it for much less ..... otherwise next time i visit in the states i will make a run into wal-mart and get it down there :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34636	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Plecos

They shouldn't turn pale like that. When fish turn pale, it means they are stressed. If that was a common pleco with the various brown/black pattern and is now that color, he is really stressed he has been that color for 2 years that i have seen him, before that not sure hmmmmmm will really have to see about getting the smaller one re-homed pronto Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34637	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: re-tested PH

just did the PH test and it is 7.2 Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34638	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

Your local WalMart may not carry this in stock but here in the States, we can order it online and have it delivered to our local store for no shipping charge. Hopefully, you all have similar cost savings available. Do you have a Big Al's nearby? They have pretty good prices and are a Canadian based chain fish Mega-Store company although they did open a store down in Florida a few years ago. They also have their online store http://www.BigAlsOnline.com or it may be .ca for Canada. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] test kits Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit at Wal-Mart for $17.64 - The Freshwater Master Test Kit Includes Tests for: Freshwater pH, High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness) (You will need a separate Nitrate test kit) i looked at the kits at the pet store, the API kit on Sale was 40$ the bigger one that does 10 different tests was 120$ on sale !!!! will check out wal-mart and hope they have it for much less ..... otherwise next time i visit in the states i will make a run into wal-mart and get it down there :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34639	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Plecos

He could be an Albino Common Pleco but he doesn't look good for Albino either. He has got to be stressed living in that small aquarium all these years. It would be like one of us living in a bathroom or a closet all the time... never being able to leave the room. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plecos They shouldn't turn pale like that. When fish turn pale, it means they are stressed. If that was a common pleco with the various brown/black pattern and is now that color, he is really stressed he has been that color for 2 years that i have seen him, before that not sure hmmmmmm will really have to see about getting the smaller one re-homed pronto Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34640	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: fish fighting or trying to mate?

well it looks like i have romeo and juliette, but she does not seem happy with her romeo. she keeps trying to get away from him Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34641	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: retested water

Using the one online (I did not know they had an online color comparator) would imply that your monitor has been color corrected so you see the true color to ensure your match is accurate? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Darlene > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 6:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] retested water > > Do you have the instructions still? I could type them out if you don't. > > yes i still have the instructions, the english part is gone but i read the spanish part (similar to > french) > 3 drops of indicator to 5ml of water !! > have part of the color chart but will check against the online on to be sure ! :) > > Darlene > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34642	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without knowing what's available. Do they have a website? Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. which often leads to swim bladder disorders. Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will slowly reduce the salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help until Monday? - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34643	From: Darlene	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

the test kit i was looking at is from Hagen, tests for PH high PH low Iron Nitrite Phosphate Ammonia Nitrate Calcium General water hardness Carbonate hardness it is 99.00 from Big Al's will get it after the holidays if you think it is a good get to get if i am gonna get a kit i might as well get a good complete one :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34644	From: bill1433	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Turning On The Light?

I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting.� It seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an aquarium. � It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a light bulb in replacement of the�tube type fixture. � Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also better for aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion on list but I�ve only been here a short time.� Is any of this true?� If so which part or parts?� I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but they were all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon.� Or is this what they are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate larger tanks? �Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34645	From: nothing_zero	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: fish fighting or trying to mate?

Hi I have 2 Japanese carps that I would like to sell as it is big already and I do not have the space to have these 2. Its about 4kg each. 1 is mustard colour and the other red with white. Both are very healthy,. Anybody interested? TQ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darlene" <amazonbirds@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish fighting or trying to mate? well it looks like i have romeo and juliette, but she does not seem happy with her romeo. she keeps trying to get away from him Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34646	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: 2 Japanese Carp (was: fish fighting or trying to mate?)

While I do not need them, you should post where you are located. Are these Japanese carp actually Koi? If yes, they need to be in a large pond with at least 1,000 gallons if only these two fish or at least 300G per fish if the pond is over 1,000 gallons. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nothing_zero Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish fighting or trying to mate? Hi I have 2 Japanese carps that I would like to sell as it is big already and I do not have the space to have these 2. Its about 4kg each. 1 is mustard colour and the other red with white. Both are very healthy,. Anybody interested? TQ

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34647	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

Where have you been the past couple of days? We've been discussing CFL's... well sort of... in the "Wa$ted" thread. Yes for small tanks that often come with one or two screw in fixtures for tubular incandescent bulbs, the CFL's of similar shape work great but will increase the lighting quite a bit. I have a 10G tank that I got as a kit that has the hood with two incandescent bulbs. The largest incandescent tubular bulbs it can handle are 7.5W on each side as the hood is plastic and anything stronger than 7.5W puts out too much heat and started to melt the hood... yes, that means I tried to upgrade the lighting. LOL With the two 7.5W bulbs, that gave the tank 1.5 watts per gallon. With CFL's, which are only rated at 25W but put out light comparable to 60W bulbs, two of them would be comparable to 120W of lighting on a 10G tank... or 12 watts per gallon. The other consideration for switching to a single CFL instead of two incandescent bulbs (leave a burned out incandescent bulb in the extra socket to keep moisture from corroding the socket) would be the heat factor. The heat from the two 7.5W bulbs would actually heat up the water when the lights were on and then when they were off, the water would cool down... unless there was an aquarium heater to keep it more stabile. This tank kit did not have a clear shield between the bulbs and the surface air of the tank. I tried putting a piece of plexiglass on the tank and then the hood on top of it but the heat from even the 7.5W bulbs quickly started to melt the plexiglass and the hood also... so there has to be this free air space, which means the lights will heat up the water. There are also hoods designed strictly for CFL's that have plug in ends on the bulbs with four prongs. There are several kinds of designs for CFL's to be used in different sockets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting.  It seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an aquarium.   It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a light bulb in replacement of the tube type fixture.   Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also better for aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion on list but I¢ve only been here a short time.  Is any of this true?  If so which part or parts?  I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but they were all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon.  Or is this what they are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate larger tanks?  Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34648	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: retested water

The online color cards are simply photographs (or scanned copies) of the API cards that have been posted online... and yes, there are issues with the color settings of the original camera or scanner (lighting, contrast, etc.), color settings of the recipients computer monitor and color settings of the printer.. if printed. But at least, one can easily tell the difference between 10ppm nitrates (amber to orange) and 40ppm nitrates (reddish) or higher. It would be harder to possibly compare color ranges closer than that with the API nitrate color cards online since the color settings of monitors and printers come into play. Here's the link again since Darlene excluded my post in her reply. Scroll down about 1/2 way on this page. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Downloads.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 7:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] retested water Using the one online (I did not know they had an online color comparator) would imply that your monitor has been color corrected so you see the true color to ensure your match is accurate? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Darlene > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 6:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] retested water > > Do you have the instructions still? I could type them out if you don't. > > yes i still have the instructions, the english part is gone but i read > the spanish part (similar to > french) > 3 drops of indicator to 5ml of water !! > have part of the color chart but will check against the online on to > be sure ! :) > > Darlene > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

OK. For future reference, when we refer to an LFS (Local Fish Store), we mean a privately owned specialized fish store where the owner and employees are a little more likely (but not definitely) to know what they are talking about. While there are going to occasionally be knowledgeable fish people at PetsMarts and other chains, you cannot count on them. Allie, who posts out here on occasion, actually works at a PetsMart but considering the thousands of PetsMart employees and the rare appearance of them in the many forums I've been involved in over the years, I would suspect that the majority of them only have limited knowledge from some little training program. You could ask them to explain the nitrogen cycle, Fishless Cycling and Cycling With Fish and if they can't explain them three things, they probably know very little about modern fish keeping. I remember when I first switched from having ponds, where I did not really have nearly as much knowledge compared to today, and could not have passed my own suggested tests above, compared to what I know today and kind of let nature take its course with the ponds but my goldfish all did well, lots of breeding, only fish loses were to predators (damned Cranes) to having my first indoor aquarium where I got some really BAD advice from PetsMart.. including a copy of the "Goldfish Care Sheet" right from the PetsMart training manual... where it suggested no more than five goldfish in a 10G Goldfish Starter tank... yes, that was in writing. I had long-bodied goldfish in my ponds and I was told that the fancy goldfish "stay small"... yeah, right!! Yes, with five goldfish in a 10G tank, they will stay small from being stunted and then they will have lots of health problems and die before they live a fraction of their expected lifespan... but they would "stay small"... but that doesn't make it accurate or the right information to be giving folks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without knowing what's available. Do they have a website? Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. which often leads to swim bladder disorders. Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will slowly reduce the salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help until Monday? - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34650	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

The price you have for the Hagen test kit sounds way out of line, even with the difference in the Canadian cost vs. the US cost. I understand, though, that, as a distributor, Hagen pretty much has a lock on the Canadian market. Look to see if you can find an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Kit, which is highly recommended here, or, may favorite, but more expensive, the Kordon Kit. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Darlene > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 7:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] test kits > > the test kit i was looking at is from Hagen, > tests for > > PH high > PH low > Iron > Nitrite > Phosphate > Ammonia > Nitrate > Calcium > General water hardness > Carbonate hardness > > it is 99.00 from Big Al's > will get it after the holidays if you think it is a good get to get > if i am gonna get a kit i might as well get a good complete one :) > > Darlene > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34651	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the fungus) - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, after I turn off the lamp at night. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without knowing what's available. Do they have a website? Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. which often leads to swim bladder disorders. Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will slowly reduce the salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help until Monday? - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34652	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

While the Hagen kit is fine, some of the tests are more important if you are planning on having a more advanced planted tank. Iron, calcium and phosphate are not as much of an issue with non-planted tanks or lightly planted tanks with easy to grow plants, where the fish will provide all of the plant nutrients (pee and poop). I've never had to use or felt the need for the above three tests. If you start having unexplained algae problems, then knowing these other things can possibly be helpful. If you have public utility water, you can get a report from them with the levels of these and any other compounds in your water. As long as they are not out of line and you don't add anything to the tank that would raise any of these compounds, those three tests are not really needed. The Tetratest-Laborette kit and/or API kit, either for under $20.00 (Walmart.com) will do fine. The T-L kit does ammonia, nitrite, pH, GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and CO2.. so a separate nitrate kit is needed (API's under $5.00). The API kit will do ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH (low and high) so a separate GH and KH kit would be needed (under $10.00). Since the kits should be replaced annually and either of these kits will last a year for the average hobbyist, there's no reason to overspend. So.. you can spend the $99.00 or you can spend $25.00 to $30.00 for the basic 6-7 tests needed (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH... CO2 can be figured out with the results of pH and KH, if needed) and save the $75.00 for that bigger tank setup that you need. ;-) We haven't really talked about it much in this thread, but the group has in other threads, but if you have a FreeCycle.org group in your area or Craigslist.org or Garage Sales, other want ads, etc., you might be able to find a much larger tank for a much lower price than buying new. We even had a member out here recently get an entire 55G setup (stand, tank, lighting, filter, etc.) for free off of FreeCycle. The big ones don't come up often but I have seen smaller tanks, 10G to 20G, for free on a more regular basis. WalMart.com also sells a 55G kit for $135.00 here in the States, which has the tank, filter, heater, hood, lighting.. so all that would be needed is the stand and you could move the goldfish to the 55G while you rehome the big pleco's. Then you could use your 29G for a tropical fish tank since you've expressed an interest in some tropical fish. I'd rather see you spend that $99.00 you were considering for the Hagen kit on the bigger tank and go with the better priced test kit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 6:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] test kits the test kit i was looking at is from Hagen, tests for PH high PH low Iron Nitrite Phosphate Ammonia Nitrate Calcium General water hardness Carbonate hardness it is 99.00 from Big Al's will get it after the holidays if you think it is a good get to get if i am gonna get a kit i might as well get a good complete one :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34653	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to feed them right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian conditioning to start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous owner. If it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after lights out and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the external environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out so things look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in what's going on in the room. A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the fish can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. For example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than inside, the glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very well. If you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much better. I'm not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly against the glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank at an angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the tank when the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look from the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through them rather than get the mirror effect. I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our public aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank but I also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when I'm in the room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they can see even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are on, compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the fungus) - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, after I turn off the lamp at night. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without knowing what's available. Do they have a website? Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. which often leads to swim bladder disorders. Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will slowly reduce the salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help until Monday? - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34654	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

Bill, The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to save on electrical costs, are the LED lights. Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to light tanks. They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many more lumens per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a planted aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have basically a fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard fluorescent bulb. AS the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less expensive, that is not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the gap is closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked into it, do your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning out, as do standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely you will replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a total of 1 watt with three and 14 watts with 2. Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different type of light, and should not be under consideration. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting.  It seems the two people > talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one suggested to the other that there was a > better way to light an aquarium. > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the standard > fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs > types that screw in like a light bulb in replacement of the tube type fixture. > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all illumination, cheaper to buy > and better life span and also better for aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this > discussion on list but I¢ve only been here a short time.  Is any of this true?  If so which part > or parts?  I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but they were all for small aquariums, 5 > or 10 gallon.  Or is this what they are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to > accommodate larger tanks? >  Bill > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34655	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests

I would expect to pay the same or close to it here in California. I only live about 45 minutes away from where Tru Vu Aquariums are made. No discounts for locals :( -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Darlene <amazonbirds@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 2:42 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water tests With only a second 29G tank, you CANNOT get more fish. I've already explained that you will need this much water just for the goldfish got this post after i had posted, so for now will move one gold fish to new tank with cat fish and sell the other plecos i would love the tank i saw in the pet store..... it was 6 or 7 feet long by 2.5 feet high and about 2.5 - 3 feet deep my dream tank it was only $1,499.99 ....... on sale !! everything in Canada is way more than in the states !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

\\Steve//, I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent with either fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple comparison, it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL to CFL, etc. A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W incandescent. A 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And since you brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you were living on the Sun. ;-) I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather than the amount of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% of the energy used is creating heat rather than light. I never really realized it but recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out up to 10 times more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 times... when you look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent's are much more efficient in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb itself (just some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more efficient than the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE efficient than all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite high when I was looking at them online recently. For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with two 40W tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy anyhow and the fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics when they look up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money (not likely since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the grave yet and I don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely go with one of the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so that the light will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the evening, until off, more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will come on so you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and energy efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already available as add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or wants to use the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the environmental impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there any hazardous substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? Bill, The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to save on electrical costs, are the LED lights. Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to light tanks. They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many more lumens per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a planted aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have basically a fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard fluorescent bulb. AS the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less expensive, that is not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the gap is closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked into it, do your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning out, as do standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely you will replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a total of 1 watt with three and 14 watts with 2. Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different type of light, and should not be under consideration. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting. It > seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one > suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an aquarium. > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the > standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of > Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a light bulb in replacement of the tube type fixture. > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all > illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also better for > aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion on list > but I¢ve only been here a short time. Is any of this true? If so > which part or parts? I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but > they were all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon. Or is this what they are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate larger tanks? > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34657	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2008
Subject: Re: water tests

Whew.. that's a lot of dough. I'd probably have to build my own if I ever went with that size tank. GlassCages.com has the 100G long (72 x 18 x 17) acrylic for $500.00 and the glass for $292.00... or the 135G glass (72 x 18 x 25) for $303.00. After those sizes, prices go up dramatically. That's when building my own plywood, in-wall, tank would come into play. Then I'd only have to have the expensive front glass or acrylic panel. Oh yeah... Darlene.. a big part of the reason for your higher prices up there are the exorbitant tax rates that you folks pay to your gov'ment... but don't worry, over the next four years, we'll be catching up with you all. Thank God for tax evasion... oops... I meant legal tax avoidance.... otherwise, I might go McVeigh-al myself in the next four years. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water tests I would expect to pay the same or close to it here in California. I only live about 45 minutes away from where Tru Vu Aquariums are made. No discounts for locals :( -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Darlene <amazonbirds@... <mailto:amazonbirds%40videotron.ca> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 2:42 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] water tests With only a second 29G tank, you CANNOT get more fish. I've already explained that you will need this much water just for the goldfish got this post after i had posted, so for now will move one gold fish to new tank with cat fish and sell the other plecos i would love the tank i saw in the pet store..... it was 6 or 7 feet long by 2.5 feet high and about 2.5 - 3 feet deep my dream tank it was only $1,499.99 ....... on sale !! everything in Canada is way more than in the states !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34658	From: bill1433	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?for \\Steve//

My friend, you hit on my very next question?� The standard fluorescent tube?� Good! What's it called?� Remember, I'm just returning to the hobby here and have seen "color" tubes, tubes for special plant growth (staying with plastic ones here) special high intensity tubes, low intensity tubes, I just need a light that will adequately light up an aquarium (standard 29-gallon) without changing the real color of the fish (enhancing or otherwise), turn them into Super Hero�s, glow in the dark, or any fancy stuff. � An example?� A 40-watt tube that says, �cool white� on it.� What should a good old fashion aquarium�tube say? � In a fog, again! �Turn on the light \\Steve//! � Bill --- On Sun, 12/21/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 1:35 AM Bill, The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to save on electrical costs, are the LED lights. Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to light tanks. They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many more lumens per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a planted aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have basically a fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard fluorescent bulb. AS the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less expensive, that is not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the gap is closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked into it, do your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning out, as do standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely you will replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a total of 1 watt with three and 14 watts with 2. Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different type of light, and should not be under consideration. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting.� It seems the two people > talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one suggested to the other that there was a > better way to light an aquarium. > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the standard > fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs > types that screw in like a light bulb in replacement of the�tube type fixture. > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all illumination, cheaper to buy > and better life span and also better for aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this > discussion on list but I�ve only been here a short time.� Is any of this true?� If so which part > or parts?� I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but they were all for small aquariums, 5 > or 10 gallon.� Or is this what they are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to > accommodate larger tanks? > �Bill > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34659	From: harry perry	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?/To Bill from Harry

The fluorescent tube for your 29 gal. ( I have a 29 gal. planted tank, low light) My tubes don't say anything they can't talk. However printed on the tube is Ace Hardware, that's all you need. Actually I buy them at Walmart. I have a double tube fixture, comes to 1 watt per gal. I simply buy the plants that will survive with 1 watt per gal. What's important is to understand what you have and what you want to accomplish. A fish only tank with plastic plants only needs regular fluorescent bulbs. The fish don't care. Some folks don't have any lights at all, probably have less algae problems. What I see happening is folks go to the lfs and buy live plants and in two weeks time the plants "melt" why?. You didn't Google your plants before buying them, what a concept, research before buying or easier just ask here. That's what we are here for. Harry --- On Sun, 12/21/08, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light?for \\Steve// To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 10:40 AM My friend, you hit on my very next question?� The standard fluorescent tube?� Good! What's it called?� Remember, I'm just returning to the hobby here and have seen "color" tubes, tubes for special plant growth (staying with plastic ones here) special high intensity tubes, low intensity tubes, I just need a light that will adequately light up an aquarium (standard 29-gallon) without changing the real color of the fish (enhancing or otherwise), turn them into Super Hero�s, glow in the dark, or any fancy stuff. � An example?� A 40-watt tube that says, �cool white� on it.� What should a good old fashion aquarium�tube say? � In a fog, again! �Turn on the light \\Steve//! � Bill --- On Sun, 12/21/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 1:35 AM Bill, The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to save on electrical costs, are the LED lights. Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to light tanks. They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many more lumens per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a planted aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have basically a fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard fluorescent bulb. AS the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less expensive, that is not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the gap is closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked into it, do your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning out, as do standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely you will replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a total of 1 watt with three and 14 watts with 2. Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different type of light, and should not be under consideration. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting.� It seems the two people > talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one suggested to the other that there was a > better way to light an aquarium. > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the standard > fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs > types that screw in like a light bulb in replacement of the�tube type fixture. > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all illumination, cheaper to buy > and better life span and also better for aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this > discussion on list but I�ve only been here a short time.� Is any of this true?� If so which part > or parts?� I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but they were all for small aquariums, 5 > or 10 gallon.� Or is this what they are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to > accommodate larger tanks? > �Bill > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34660	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

As I mentioned in my reply, comparing wattage was for savings you might obtain using CFLs. As I mentioned in my reply, output, in lumens, a real measure of light output is much greater per watt in CFLs than it is in the regular fluorescent and incandescent bulbs. Currently, there are a large number of options available for lighting an aquarium. Each has their positive and negative aspects. Here is a general list: 1. Incandescent lights 2. Fluorescent lights 3. Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum 4. High output (HO) and Very High Output (VHO) fluorescent lights 5. Metal Halide lights 6. Compact fluorescent lights 7. Compact Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum 8. Light emitting diodes (LED) Most of these categories can be broken down further, can be used in combination, etc., giving one an awful wide choice of lighting. Frankly, most people arrive at their current lighting scheme more by happenstance than by planning. I've got to admit that I am in this group. What we should be doing is looking at the type of tank we are going to be keeping and choose the best lighting available that will fit our purchase budget (some lighting options can be very expensive to purchase and operate).Lighting for a fish only tank is, and should be, very different than lighting used for a planted tank with fish. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > \\Steve//, > > I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent with either > fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple comparison, > it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in > incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL to CFL, etc. > A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W incandescent. A > 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And since you > brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you were living on > the Sun. ;-) > > I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. > > Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather than the amount > of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% of the energy > used is creating heat rather than light. I never really realized it but > recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out up to 10 times > more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 times... when you > look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent's are much more efficient > in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb itself (just > some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more efficient than > the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE efficient than > all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite high when I was > looking at them online recently. > > For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with two 40W > tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy anyhow and the > fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics when they look > up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money (not likely > since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the grave yet and I > don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely go with one of > the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so that the light > will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the evening, until off, > more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will come on so > you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and energy > efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already available as > add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or wants to use > the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the environmental > impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there any hazardous > substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > Bill, > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to save on > electrical costs, are the LED lights. > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to light tanks. > They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many more lumens > per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a planted > aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have basically a > fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard fluorescent bulb. AS > the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less expensive, that is > not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the gap is > closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked into it, do > your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning out, as do > standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely you will > replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a total of 1 > watt with three and 14 watts with 2. > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different type of > light, and should not be under consideration. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > bill1433 > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting. It > > seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one > > suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an aquarium. > > > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the > > standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of > > Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a light bulb in > replacement of the tube type fixture. > > > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all > > illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also better for > > aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion on list > > but I¢ve only been here a short time. Is any of this true? If so > > which part or parts? I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but > > they were all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon. Or is this what they > are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate larger > tanks? > > Bill > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34661	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?for \\Steve//

Bill, For fish only, a "cool white" bulb should be sufficient. If you want to get fancy, and spend a dollar or two more, a "full spectrum" bulb may show your fish to a better advantage than a "cool white" would. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 10:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light?for \\Steve// > > My friend, you hit on my very next question?  The standard fluorescent tube?  Good! > What's it called?  Remember, I'm just returning to the hobby here and have seen "color" > tubes, tubes for special plant growth (staying with plastic ones here) special high intensity > tubes, low intensity tubes, I just need a light that will adequately light up an aquarium > (standard 29-gallon) without changing the real color of the fish (enhancing or otherwise), > turn them into Super Hero's, glow in the dark, or any fancy stuff. > > An example?  A 40-watt tube that says, "cool white" on it.  What should a good old fashion > aquarium tube say? > > In a fog, again!  Turn on the light \\Steve//! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/21/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 1:35 AM > > > > > > > Bill, > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to save on electrical costs, are > the LED lights. > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to light tanks. They come in many > flavors, and have the ability to provide many more lumens per watt than standard > fluorescents. If you are considering a planted aquarium, you probably should consider the > CFLs. If you have basically a fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard > fluorescent bulb. AS the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less expensive, that > is not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the gap is closing, or has > closed--it has been a bit since I last looked into it, do your own research--they still need > replacement prior to burning out, as do standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but > likely you will replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a total of 1 watt > with three and 14 watts with 2. > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different type of light, and should not > be under consideration. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf > Of > > bill1433 > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting.  It seems the two people > > talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one suggested to the other that there was a > > better way to light an aquarium. > > > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the standard > > fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs > > types that screw in like a light bulb in replacement of the tube type fixture. > > > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all illumination, cheaper to > buy > > and better life span and also better for aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this > > discussion on list but I¢ve only been here a short time.  Is any of this true?  If so which > part > > or parts?  I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but they were all for small aquariums, 5 > > or 10 gallon.  Or is this what they are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to > > accommodate larger tanks? > >  Bill > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34662	From: bill1433	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?---Lenny

�I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with two 40W tubes, over my 4' tank�. � Len, this is just what I just asking \\Steve// about this morning! � What your saying is fine, or really great for say a 55-gallon tank.� Go out and get a full glass cover, plop down your standard light fixture on top and you�re off! � Can you move this whole conversation over to a standard 29-gallon tank at 30� length, and talk about what �type� of bulbs and how many would be nice too, since a 29 is a bit taller than the 20-gallon long.� Can you even get a double tube fixture for 30� tanks?� Is it really necessary?� More help here and check current message sent to \\Steve//. � Bill --- On Sun, 12/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 2:05 AM \\Steve//, I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent with either fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple comparison, it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL to CFL, etc. A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W incandescent. A 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And since you brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you were living on the Sun. ;-) I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather than the amount of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% of the energy used is creating heat rather than light. I never really realized it but recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out up to 10 times more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 times... when you look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent' s are much more efficient in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb itself (just some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more efficient than the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE efficient than all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite high when I was looking at them online recently. For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with two 40W tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy anyhow and the fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics when they look up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money (not likely since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the grave yet and I don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely go with one of the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so that the light will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the evening, until off, more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will come on so you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and energy efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already available as add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or wants to use the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the environmental impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there any hazardous substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? Bill, The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to save on electrical costs, are the LED lights. Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to light tanks. They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many more lumens per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a planted aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have basically a fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard fluorescent bulb. AS the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less expensive, that is not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the gap is closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked into it, do your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning out, as do standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely you will replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a total of 1 watt with three and 14 watts with 2. Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different type of light, and should not be under consideration. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting. It > seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one > suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an aquarium. > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the > standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of > Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a light bulb in replacement of the tube type fixture. > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all > illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also better for > aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion on list > but I�ve only been here a short time. Is any of this true? If so > which part or parts? I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but > they were all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon. Or is this what they are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate larger tanks? > Bill > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34663	From: greychildren	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

hey guys Im sorry but i have a question on this topic...what type of lighting should i have for my 40g planted tank.. im corently using a 75w florecent buld..is this enouf or two much? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > As I mentioned in my reply, comparing wattage was for savings you might obtain using CFLs. As I mentioned in my reply, output, in lumens, a real measure of light output is much greater per watt in CFLs than it is in the regular fluorescent and incandescent bulbs. > > Currently, there are a large number of options available for lighting an aquarium. Each has their positive and negative aspects. Here is a general list: > > 1. Incandescent lights > 2. Fluorescent lights > 3. Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum > 4. High output (HO) and Very High Output (VHO) fluorescent lights > 5. Metal Halide lights > 6. Compact fluorescent lights > 7. Compact Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum > 8. Light emitting diodes (LED) > > Most of these categories can be broken down further, can be used in combination, etc., giving one an awful wide choice of lighting. > > Frankly, most people arrive at their current lighting scheme more by happenstance than by planning. I've got to admit that I am in this group. What we should be doing is looking at the type of tank we are going to be keeping and choose the best lighting available that will fit our purchase budget (some lighting options can be very expensive to purchase and operate).Lighting for a fish only tank is, and should be, very different than lighting used for a planted tank with fish. > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent with either > > fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple comparison, > > it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in > > incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL to CFL, etc. > > A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W incandescent. A > > 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And since you > > brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you were living on > > the Sun. ;-) > > > > I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. > > > > Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather than the amount > > of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% of the energy > > used is creating heat rather than light. I never really realized it but > > recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out up to 10 times > > more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 times... when you > > look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent's are much more efficient > > in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb itself (just > > some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more efficient than > > the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE efficient than > > all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite high when I was > > looking at them online recently. > > > > For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with two 40W > > tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy anyhow and the > > fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics when they look > > up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money (not likely > > since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the grave yet and I > > don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely go with one of > > the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so that the light > > will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the evening, until off, > > more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will come on so > > you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and energy > > efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already available as > > add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or wants to use > > the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the environmental > > impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there any hazardous > > substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > Bill, > > > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to save on > > electrical costs, are the LED lights. > > > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to light tanks. > > They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many more lumens > > per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a planted > > aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have basically a > > fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard fluorescent bulb. AS > > the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less expensive, that is > > not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the gap is > > closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked into it, do > > your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning out, as do > > standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely you will > > replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a total of 1 > > watt with three and 14 watts with 2. > > > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different type of > > light, and should not be under consideration. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > bill1433 > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > > > To: AquaticLife > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting. It > > > seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one > > > suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an aquarium. > > > > > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the > > > standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of > > > Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a light bulb in > > replacement of the tube type fixture. > > > > > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over- all > > > illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also better for > > > aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion on list > > > but I¢ve only been here a short time. Is any of this true? If so > > > which part or parts? I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but > > > they were all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon. Or is this what they > > are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate larger > > tanks? > > > Bill > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34664	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?---Lenny

Home Depot and Ace Hardware both sell fluorescent light fixtures in the under 30" range also. Probably the 24" bulbs would work perfect. I'm guessing a 24"+ fixture with two 18W bulbs would be a little over 1 watt per gallon on a 29G tank. Even a single fluorescent bulb would be fine for just lighting up the tank without live plants. If you get the 29G kit from Wally-world, it will come with a hood and light fixture. Probably just a single fluorescent tube but that would be all you need for fish only. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light?---Lenny “I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with two 40W tubes, over my 4' tank”.   Len, this is just what I just asking \\Steve// about this morning!   What your saying is fine, or really great for say a 55-gallon tank.  Go out and get a full glass cover, plop down your standard light fixture on top and you’re off!   Can you move this whole conversation over to a standard 29-gallon tank at 30” length, and talk about what “type” of bulbs and how many would be nice too, since a 29 is a bit taller than the 20-gallon long.  Can you even get a double tube fixture for 30” tanks?  Is it really necessary?  More help here and check current message sent to \\Steve//.   Bill --- On Sun, 12/21/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 2:05 AM \\Steve//, I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent with either fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple comparison, it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL to CFL, etc. A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W incandescent. A 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And since you brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you were living on the Sun. ;-) I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather than the amount of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% of the energy used is creating heat rather than light. I never really realized it but recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out up to 10 times more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 times... when you look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent' s are much more efficient in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb itself (just some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more efficient than the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE efficient than all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite high when I was looking at them online recently. For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with two 40W tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy anyhow and the fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics when they look up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money (not likely since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the grave yet and I don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely go with one of the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so that the light will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the evening, until off, more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will come on so you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and energy efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already available as add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or wants to use the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the environmental impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there any hazardous substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? Bill, The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to save on electrical costs, are the LED lights. Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to light tanks. They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many more lumens per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a planted aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have basically a fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard fluorescent bulb. AS the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less expensive, that is not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the gap is closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked into it, do your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning out, as do standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely you will replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a total of 1 watt with three and 14 watts with 2. Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different type of light, and should not be under consideration. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf > Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting. It > seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one > suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an aquarium. > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the > standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of > Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a light bulb > in replacement of the tube type fixture. > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all > illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also better for > aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion on list > but I¢ve only been here a short time. Is any of this true? If so which > part or parts? I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but they were > all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon. Or is this what they are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate larger tanks? > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34665	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

Are you currently using CFL's? What type fluorescent bulbs are they? Are they general spectrum or do they have a designation? Any idea of the lumen output? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > greychildren > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > hey guys > > Im sorry but i have a question on this topic...what type of lighting > should i have for my 40g planted tank.. im corently using a 75w > florecent buld..is this enouf or two much? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > As I mentioned in my reply, comparing wattage was for savings you > might obtain using CFLs. As I mentioned in my reply, output, in > lumens, a real measure of light output is much greater per watt in > CFLs than it is in the regular fluorescent and incandescent bulbs. > > > > Currently, there are a large number of options available for > lighting an aquarium. Each has their positive and negative aspects. > Here is a general list: > > > > 1. Incandescent lights > > 2. Fluorescent lights > > 3. Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum > > 4. High output (HO) and Very High Output (VHO) fluorescent lights > > 5. Metal Halide lights > > 6. Compact fluorescent lights > > 7. Compact Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum > > 8. Light emitting diodes (LED) > > > > Most of these categories can be broken down further, can be used in > combination, etc., giving one an awful wide choice of lighting. > > > > Frankly, most people arrive at their current lighting scheme more > by happenstance than by planning. I've got to admit that I am in this > group. What we should be doing is looking at the type of tank we are > going to be keeping and choose the best lighting available that will > fit our purchase budget (some lighting options can be very expensive > to purchase and operate).Lighting for a fish only tank is, and should > be, very different than lighting used for a planted tank with fish. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:06 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent with > either > > > fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple > comparison, > > > it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in > > > incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL to > CFL, etc. > > > A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W > incandescent. A > > > 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And > since you > > > brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you > were living on > > > the Sun. ;-) > > > > > > I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. > > > > > > Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather than > the amount > > > of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% of > the energy > > > used is creating heat rather than light. I never really realized > it but > > > recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out up > to 10 times > > > more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 > times... when you > > > look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent's are much more > efficient > > > in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb > itself (just > > > some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more > efficient than > > > the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE > efficient than > > > all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite high > when I was > > > looking at them online recently. > > > > > > For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with > two 40W > > > tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy > anyhow and the > > > fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics when > they look > > > up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money > (not likely > > > since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the > grave yet and I > > > don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely go > with one of > > > the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so that > the light > > > will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the evening, > until off, > > > more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will > come on so > > > you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and > energy > > > efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already > available as > > > add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or > wants to use > > > the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the > environmental > > > impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there any > hazardous > > > substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to > save on > > > electrical costs, are the LED lights. > > > > > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to > light tanks. > > > They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many > more lumens > > > per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a > planted > > > aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have > basically a > > > fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard > fluorescent bulb. AS > > > the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less > expensive, that is > > > not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the > gap is > > > closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked > into it, do > > > your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning > out, as do > > > standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely you > will > > > replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a > total of 1 > > > watt with three and 14 watts with 2. > > > > > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different > type of > > > light, and should not be under consideration. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > > bill1433 > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most > interesting. It > > > > seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting > and one > > > > suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an > aquarium. > > > > > > > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using > the > > > > standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of > > > > Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a > light bulb in > > > replacement of the tube type fixture. > > > > > > > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over- > all > > > > illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also > better for > > > > aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion > on list > > > > but I¢ve only been here a short time. Is any of this true? If > so > > > > which part or parts? I have seen hoods for incandescent lights > but > > > > they were all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon. Or is this > what they > > > are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate > larger > > > tanks? > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34666	From: bill1433	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?for \\Steve//

My eternal "Thanks" Steve!  That's the answer I was hoping for.   Bill --- On Sun, 12/21/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light?for \\Steve// To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 11:41 AM Bill, For fish only, a "cool white" bulb should be sufficient. If you want to get fancy, and spend a dollar or two more, a "full spectrum" bulb may show your fish to a better advantage than a "cool white" would. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 10:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light?for \\Steve// > > My friend, you hit on my very next question?  The standard fluorescent tube?  Good! > What's it called?  Remember, I'm just returning to the hobby here and have seen "color" > tubes, tubes for special plant growth (staying with plastic ones here) special high intensity > tubes, low intensity tubes, I just need a light that will adequately light up an aquarium > (standard 29-gallon) without changing the real color of the fish (enhancing or otherwise), > turn them into Super Hero's, glow in the dark, or any fancy stuff. > > An example?  A 40-watt tube that says, "cool white" on it.  What should a good old fashion > aquarium tube say? > > In a fog, again!  Turn on the light \\Steve//! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/21/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 1:35 AM > > > > > > > Bill, > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to save on electrical costs, are > the LED lights. > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to light tanks.. They come in many > flavors, and have the ability to provide many more lumens per watt than standard > fluorescents. If you are considering a planted aquarium, you probably should consider the > CFLs. If you have basically a fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard > fluorescent bulb. AS the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less expensive, that > is not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the gap is closing, or has > closed--it has been a bit since I last looked into it, do your own research--they still need > replacement prior to burning out, as do standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but > likely you will replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a total of 1 watt > with three and 14 watts with 2. > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different type of light, and should not > be under consideration. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf > Of > > bill1433 > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most interesting.  It seems the two people > > talking were discussing Aquarium lighting and one suggested to the other that there was a > > better way to light an aquarium. > > > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using the standard > > fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs > > types that screw in like a light bulb in replacement of the tube type fixture. > > > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over-all illumination, cheaper to > buy > > and better life span and also better for aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this > > discussion on list but I¢ve only been here a short time.  Is any of this true?  If so which > part > > or parts?  I have seen hoods for incandescent lights but they were all for small aquariums, 5 > > or 10 gallon.  Or is this what they are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to > > accommodate larger tanks? > >  Bill > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34667	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: sunday test results

PH 7.4 Nitrite 0 ppm Ammonia 0 ppm should i remove the white stones from the bigger filter as i am 90% sure it is zeolite and leave it in the smaller one for a few more days ? i don't want to drastically change water conditions not to kill my fish either also i read online that you should not use a metal container to prepare water for PWC, is this true ? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34668	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

The price you have for the Hagen test kit sounds way out of line, even with the difference in the Canadian cost vs. the US cost. I understand, though, that, as a distributor, Hagen pretty much has a lock on the Canadian market. Look to see if you can find an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Kit, which is highly recommended here, or, may favorite, but more expensive, the Kordon Kit. this is the link for the tests kits in Canada from Big Al's the master test kit from API is 40$ http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA/ctl3664/cp18120/si1317863/cl0/aquariumpharmaceuticalsfreshwatermastertestkit Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34669	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tanks was water tests

That's when building my own plywood, in-wall, tank would come into play. Then I'd only have to have the expensive front glass or acrylic panel. Lenny your giving me ideas i cannot afford right now !!! i live in an apartment so an in-wall tank is not an option :(((( you build your own tanks ???? hmmmmmmmm now you have me thinking about building my own i can make the stand no problem ............... i have all the tools i need ........... hmmmmmmm :)) when i know a lot more about fish tanks and proper care i will get back to you on this subject :))) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34670	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results

Darlene, If the container, hose, whatever, is rated for potable water, it is OK to use with your fish. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Darlene > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] sunday test results > > PH 7.4 > Nitrite 0 ppm > Ammonia 0 ppm > should i remove the white stones from the bigger filter as i am 90% sure it is zeolite and > leave it in the smaller one for a few more days ? > i don't want to drastically change water conditions not to kill my fish either > also i read online that you should not use a metal container to prepare water for PWC, is this > true ? > > Darlene > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34671	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results

If the container, hose, whatever, is rated for potable water, it is OK to use with your fish. Great:)) at least i know i am not killing my fish by using my 4 gallon Stock pot for PWC :)) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34672	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results

Wish such big fish in a 29G tank, I'd continue to use the zeolite. Normally, zeolite shouldn't be used unless it's an emergency... and in your situation, it is. If you removed it, you would have extreme ammonia issues in a very short period of time. Did you save the instructions for recharging the zeolite? At a certain point, it will become "clogged" up with ammonia and then it has to be recharged and reused. If you have two packets of it, you can alternate them with a fresh packet while you recharge the used one. If you don't have two packets, then you'll have to recharge it and keep an eye on the tank's ammonia level while it is recharging. If you don't have the instructions, you can probably find them online at the Hagen AquaClear site or I could give you the instructions I have for a different brand "Nitra-Zorb" that I bought many years ago and have used a few times... mainly during Hurricane Katrina when I had no power for 14 days. I've never heard a problem with metal containers... as long as they are safe for potable water. What kind of metal container is it? A pot? Stainless steel would certainly be OK. There are some issues with teflon where small pieces of it come off when cooking so if you have a teflon pot that has a degraded coating, I probably wouldn't use it for the fish. It's probably still OK for cooking... although some might argue against it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sunday test results PH 7.4 Nitrite 0 ppm Ammonia 0 ppm should i remove the white stones from the bigger filter as i am 90% sure it is zeolite and leave it in the smaller one for a few more days ? i don't want to drastically change water conditions not to kill my fish either also i read online that you should not use a metal container to prepare water for PWC, is this true ? Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34673	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

Did you check Walmart.com for the API test kit or the Tetratest-Laborette test kit in Canada? They are both under $20.00 in the USA. I'm looking at the USA side of BigAlsOnline.COM instead of .CA for Master Test Kits http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/cl0/mastertestkits?view Type=Category and it has the API for $17.99, the T-L ON SALE for $12.69 but the Hagen Nutrafin is $97.99 so apparently, they have similar prices for Hagen on both sides of the border but the API is less than half the price down here. I'd complain to Big Al's about this. If it was a monetary exchange rate issue, then you should either be seeing a $200.00 price on the Hagen kit up there or we should be seeing a $50.00 price down here. The add-on tests needed for either of the above (nitrate for the T-L or GH/KH for the API) kits only cost around $5.00. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] test kits The price you have for the Hagen test kit sounds way out of line, even with the difference in the Canadian cost vs. the US cost. I understand, though, that, as a distributor, Hagen pretty much has a lock on the Canadian market. Look to see if you can find an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Kit, which is highly recommended here, or, may favorite, but more expensive, the Kordon Kit. this is the link for the tests kits in Canada from Big Al's the master test kit from API is 40$ http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA/ctl3664/cp18120/si1317863/cl0/aquariumph armaceuticalsfreshwatermastertestkit <http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA/ctl3664/cp18120/si1317863/cl0/aquariump harmaceuticalsfreshwatermastertestkit> Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34674	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results

Did you save the instructions for recharging the zeolite? At a certain point, it will become "clogged" up with ammonia and then it has to be recharged and reused. If you have two packets of it, you can alternate them with a fresh packet while you recharge the used one. please send me the instructions there were no instructions on re-charging the zeolite :( box just said change every month :( i bought a box of 3 cartridges so i have a spare to use .... the zeolite is starting to change color a bit it is becoming a pinkish color. when should i re-charge the zeolite? at what color intensity? i noticed my tank is somewhat clearer today than is was so i guess the particles are settling or being picked up by the filter or both. :) What kind of metal container is it? A pot? Stainless steel would certainly be OK. There are some issues with teflon where small pieces of it come off when cooking so if you have a teflon pot that has a degraded coating, I probably wouldn't use it for the fish. It's probably still OK for cooking... although some might argue against it. it is a stainless steel stock pot, any teflon in this house is limited to new pans on low heat because of the parrots and the possibility of toxic fumes and toxic particles getting into my food :) (yes i have birds and cats too ..... and i am much more knowledgeable about both) thanks for all your help Lenny with setting my tank up PROPERLY so i can have fish that live long healthy lives :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34675	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results

forgot to add that i have decided to place BOTH plecos as i cannot afford a 60-80+ gallon tank until sometime this summer unless i luck out on Craig's list (not betting on it) and the fish deserve better than what i can manage at this time Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34676	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: cloudy water

29 gallon bio cube, fresh water, just set up, added some decor, black gravel, two live plants, one is planted in drift wood, added ammonia and gravel from an established tank. this is the second day it's been running, I woke up this morning and the water was milky cloudy looking. I have not experienced this with my other tanks, so i don't know what causes it and how to fix it, please help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34677	From: Darlene	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

Did you check Walmart.com for the API test kit or the Tetratest-Laborette test kit in Canada? They are both under $20.00 in the USA. just checked the walmart.ca site .............. they don't even have a section for fish !!!!!! send them an email about it too ! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34678	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Fish tanks was water tests

I haven't built my own YET but there are many webpages with DIY instructions from others who have. I did build my own stand for my 65G tank. I have photos and instructions on my blog "DIY $20.00 Big Tank Stand" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/my-diy-2000-big-tank-stand.html. Here are some DIY pages for building your own BIG tank, in order of importance for this topic of a DIY plywood/glass tank... which would be much, much less expensive than buying one... even a used one. Probably not as pretty unless you are really good with wood working but they work. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_plywood_aquarium2.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_plywood_aquarium3.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_plywood_aquarium.php http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm http://www.garf.org/tank/buildtank.asp http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_list.php http://www.aquariumlife.net/diy.asp http://www.aquariaforums.com/aquarium-diy-plans/?TYP=1 http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish tanks was water tests That's when building my own plywood, in-wall, tank would come into play. Then I'd only have to have the expensive front glass or acrylic panel. Lenny your giving me ideas i cannot afford right now !!! i live in an apartment so an in-wall tank is not an option :(((( you build your own tanks ???? hmmmmmmmm now you have me thinking about building my own i can make the stand no problem ............... i have all the tools i need ........... hmmmmmmm :)) when i know a lot more about fish tanks and proper care i will get back to you on this subject :))) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34679	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Mixing Amphibs with small fish

Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone has had any success mixing amphibs or even small reptiles (using land ofcourse) with their fish? If so, what kind of success have you had and what have you used? Ken **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results

The Nitra-Zorb that I have has a pretty big package (55G tank size) of zeolite so I'm not sure if yours is as big so you may not need as much water/salt solution but it won't hurt to use this same formula. 4 tablespoons of salt in 8 oz. of warm water and soak for at least two hours. Other products that I've read about say to soak for eight hours so you could soak yours for eight hours to be certain that it's fully recharged. Especially since you have additional packets. You probably want to alternate new packets of zeolite on a weekly basis.. instead of monthly. While the box might have said monthly, it was probably based on a normal bioload for the product. Your tank has a MUCH HIGHER bioload. Since you have one extra packet, I'm guessing you are using one packet in each of your filters, so take the dirtiest packet (whichever is the most yellow/brown) and recharge it. The filter with the higher water flow will likely get the packet dirtier faster than the slower filter. Here's a simple to read page about zeolite for ammonia removal. http://www.fritzspecialty.com/product/zeolite/ You mention yours is looking pink? Everything that I've read and seen usually has it turning yellowish to tannish. I've never seen anything about the pink coloration. Zeolite also removes other impurities besides ammonia, kind of like carbon, so I'm wondering if the pink color might not be from something else in the water.. maybe high levels do DOC's (dissolved organic compounds). As advised before, daily 25% PWC's will help remove/dilute the water to keep it a little cleaner/fresher for the fish until you get your second or bigger tank. You might also want to shop around for a Python Water Change System (Lee also sells a similar product at a lower price than Python and there's a DIY one on one of them DIY pages I sent you in an earlier post today). Instead of lugging buckets (or pots in your case) of water, the Python hooks up to your faucet and you siphon the tank and vacuum the gravel first and then refill the tank without having to lug buckets of water around. Just add your dechlor dose to the tank when starting the refill process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] sunday test results Did you save the instructions for recharging the zeolite? At a certain point, it will become "clogged" up with ammonia and then it has to be recharged and reused. If you have two packets of it, you can alternate them with a fresh packet while you recharge the used one. please send me the instructions there were no instructions on re-charging the zeolite :( box just said change every month :( i bought a box of 3 cartridges so i have a spare to use .... the zeolite is starting to change color a bit it is becoming a pinkish color. when should i re-charge the zeolite? at what color intensity? i noticed my tank is somewhat clearer today than is was so i guess the particles are settling or being picked up by the filter or both. :) What kind of metal container is it? A pot? Stainless steel would certainly be OK. There are some issues with teflon where small pieces of it come off when cooking so if you have a teflon pot that has a degraded coating, I probably wouldn't use it for the fish. It's probably still OK for cooking... although some might argue against it. it is a stainless steel stock pot, any teflon in this house is limited to new pans on low heat because of the parrots and the possibility of toxic fumes and toxic particles getting into my food :) (yes i have birds and cats too ..... and i am much more knowledgeable about both) thanks for all your help Lenny with setting my tank up PROPERLY so i can have fish that live long healthy lives :) Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34681	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: sunday test results

Make sure you check the Freebie section on Craigslist.org as well as searching the entire "For Sale" section since people put aquariums in various sections sometimes. Your LFS should help you out with placing the pleco's and should give you some trade in value for them. People with BIG cichlid tanks like to buy BIG pleco's for their tanks since a baby pleco would more subject to abuse from the bigger cichlids. I got $25.00 store credit for my 10" common pleco that was around 4 years old. They sold him the next morning for $50.00. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] sunday test results forgot to add that i have decided to place BOTH plecos as i cannot afford a 60-80+ gallon tank until sometime this summer unless i luck out on Craig's list (not betting on it) and the fish deserve better than what i can manage at this time Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34682	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

What do you mean by "added ammonia... from established tank"? I under stand the gravel, decor, etc., but not sure how you can add ammonia from an established tank since an established tank should not have any ammonia in it. If you also transferred some detritus with the gravel from the established tank, that's good since you don't mention having fish in the newly set up tank and the nitrifying bacteria need an ammonia source or they'll die off. Normally, the white cloudy water in a newly set up tank is from a bacterial bloom.. usually the nitrifying bacteria blooming in the water column until they find a surface area to call home. Most of them will live in your filter system media (sponges, floss pads, bio-media, etc.) but they will also live on the surface of the gravel, on plants, decorations and even the glass. Where did you put the "used" gravel? Since you mention "black gravel" and then later mention "added ammonia and gravel from an established tank", I'm guessing that the black gravel was new. The used gravel or cycled filter media would be best if put into the reservoir of your new filter system but once again, this should not be done until you are also ready to add some fish or the nitrifying bacteria will starve without a source of ammonia. Give us more details and chronology if the above did not answer your questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water 29 gallon bio cube, fresh water, just set up, added some decor, black gravel, two live plants, one is planted in drift wood, added ammonia and gravel from an established tank. this is the second day it's been running, I woke up this morning and the water was milky cloudy looking. I have not experienced this with my other tanks, so i don't know what causes it and how to fix it, please help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

Are you saying they don't have any fish supplies in their Pet Supplies section? That's strange. Here's the "Fish" section of the Pets section on the .com side. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202074 So... do the fine folks of Canada ever think about a Canadian version of the Boston Tea Party (a protest about high taxes in the early years of America)... but instead of throwing tea in the harbor, I propose throwing the actual politicians in it? Lake Ontario might be large enough for all of them. LOL And yes, I feel the same way about our wasteful tax-and-spend politicians down here and things are only going to get worse with higher taxes in the next four years.... but their rotting corpses sure would foul the water for a while.... but it would be worth it in the long run... and they would feed the fish, so that's a good thing too!!! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] test kits Did you check Walmart.com for the API test kit or the Tetratest-Laborette test kit in Canada? They are both under $20.00 in the USA. just checked the walmart.ca site .............. they don't even have a section for fish !!!!!! send them an email about it too ! Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34684	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Mixing Amphibs with small fish

I've never done it but Chuck has... he has frogs, newts and crickets living in the land area. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm Here's his detailed instructions on building his Paludarium. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g_construct.htm Take pics and keep a log if you do your own so you can create your own webpage/blog/article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mixing Amphibs with small fish Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone has had any success mixing amphibs or even small reptiles (using land ofcourse) with their fish? If so, what kind of success have you had and what have you used? Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Mixing Amphibs with small fish

Oops... meant to include this too. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/paludarium/paludarium.html http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Paludarium-Construction-Photo-Journal/28 / Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mixing Amphibs with small fish Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone has had any success mixing amphibs or even small reptiles (using land ofcourse) with their fish? If so, what kind of success have you had and what have you used? Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34686	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

the gravel from one of my established tanks is in the intake reservior and the ammona is just ammonia, i didn't get it from a tank i pour some in and give the bacteria a chance to build up and convert it before i add fish, i did the same thing when starting my last tank and it seemd to work perfectly --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What do you mean by "added ammonia... from established tank"? I under stand > the gravel, decor, etc., but not sure how you can add ammonia from an > established tank since an established tank should not have any ammonia in > it. > > If you also transferred some detritus with the gravel from the established > tank, that's good since you don't mention having fish in the newly set up > tank and the nitrifying bacteria need an ammonia source or they'll die off. > > Normally, the white cloudy water in a newly set up tank is from a bacterial > bloom.. usually the nitrifying bacteria blooming in the water column until > they find a surface area to call home. Most of them will live in your > filter system media (sponges, floss pads, bio-media, etc.) but they will > also live on the surface of the gravel, on plants, decorations and even the > glass. > > Where did you put the "used" gravel? Since you mention "black gravel" and > then later mention "added ammonia and gravel from an established tank", I'm > guessing that the black gravel was new. The used gravel or cycled filter > media would be best if put into the reservoir of your new filter system but > once again, this should not be done until you are also ready to add some > fish or the nitrifying bacteria will starve without a source of ammonia. > > Give us more details and chronology if the above did not answer your > questions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water > > 29 gallon bio cube, fresh water, just set up, added some decor, black > gravel, two live plants, one is planted in drift wood, added ammonia and > gravel from an established tank. this is the second day it's been running, I > woke up this morning and the water was milky cloudy looking. I have not > experienced this with my other tanks, so i don't know what causes it and how > to fix it, please help >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34687	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

Oh OK. You do know that you have to control the amount of ammonia that you add.. right? Usually 3 to 5 drops per gallon and then measure it to make sure you don't go over 4-5ppm while you are starting the fishless cycle. I'm not sure why you didn't see the white cloud before in previous fishless cycles but it's more likely to happen when you seed the filter system than when you let the nitrogen cycle develop naturally. Give us your test results while you have the cloud so we can see what the numbers say. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 10:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cloudy water the gravel from one of my established tanks is in the intake reservior and the ammona is just ammonia, i didn't get it from a tank i pour some in and give the bacteria a chance to build up and convert it before i add fish, i did the same thing when starting my last tank and it seemd to work perfectly --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What do you mean by "added ammonia... from established tank"? I under stand > the gravel, decor, etc., but not sure how you can add ammonia from an > established tank since an established tank should not have any ammonia in > it. > > If you also transferred some detritus with the gravel from the established > tank, that's good since you don't mention having fish in the newly set up > tank and the nitrifying bacteria need an ammonia source or they'll die off. > > Normally, the white cloudy water in a newly set up tank is from a bacterial > bloom.. usually the nitrifying bacteria blooming in the water column until > they find a surface area to call home. Most of them will live in your > filter system media (sponges, floss pads, bio-media, etc.) but they will > also live on the surface of the gravel, on plants, decorations and even the > glass. > > Where did you put the "used" gravel? Since you mention "black gravel" and > then later mention "added ammonia and gravel from an established tank", I'm > guessing that the black gravel was new. The used gravel or cycled filter > media would be best if put into the reservoir of your new filter system but > once again, this should not be done until you are also ready to add some > fish or the nitrifying bacteria will starve without a source of ammonia. > > Give us more details and chronology if the above did not answer your > questions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water > > 29 gallon bio cube, fresh water, just set up, added some decor, black > gravel, two live plants, one is planted in drift wood, added ammonia and > gravel from an established tank. this is the second day it's been running, I > woke up this morning and the water was milky cloudy looking. I have not > experienced this with my other tanks, so i don't know what causes it and how > to fix it, please help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34688	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

i added about a capfull and the reading was 4 yesterday, and it's still around 2-4 right now --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oh OK. You do know that you have to control the amount of ammonia that you > add.. right? Usually 3 to 5 drops per gallon and then measure it to make > sure you don't go over 4-5ppm while you are starting the fishless cycle. > > I'm not sure why you didn't see the white cloud before in previous fishless > cycles but it's more likely to happen when you seed the filter system than > when you let the nitrogen cycle develop naturally. > > Give us your test results while you have the cloud so we can see what the > numbers say. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 10:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cloudy water > > the gravel from one of my established tanks is in the intake reservior and > the ammona is just ammonia, i didn't get it from a tank i pour some in and > give the bacteria a chance to build up and convert it before i add fish, i > did the same thing when starting my last tank and it seemd to work perfectly > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > What do you mean by "added ammonia... from established tank"? I > under stand > > the gravel, decor, etc., but not sure how you can add ammonia from > an > > established tank since an established tank should not have any > ammonia in > > it. > > > > If you also transferred some detritus with the gravel from the > established > > tank, that's good since you don't mention having fish in the newly > set up > > tank and the nitrifying bacteria need an ammonia source or they'll > die off. > > > > Normally, the white cloudy water in a newly set up tank is from a > bacterial > > bloom.. usually the nitrifying bacteria blooming in the water > column until > > they find a surface area to call home. Most of them will live in > your > > filter system media (sponges, floss pads, bio-media, etc.) but > they will > > also live on the surface of the gravel, on plants, decorations and > even the > > glass. > > > > Where did you put the "used" gravel? Since you mention "black > gravel" and > > then later mention "added ammonia and gravel from an established > tank", I'm > > guessing that the black gravel was new. The used gravel or cycled > filter > > media would be best if put into the reservoir of your new filter > system but > > once again, this should not be done until you are also ready to > add some > > fish or the nitrifying bacteria will starve without a source of > ammonia. > > > > Give us more details and chronology if the above did not answer > your > > questions. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water > > > > 29 gallon bio cube, fresh water, just set up, added some decor, > black > > gravel, two live plants, one is planted in drift wood, added > ammonia and > > gravel from an established tank. this is the second day it's been > running, I > > woke up this morning and the water was milky cloudy looking. I > have not > > experienced this with my other tanks, so i don't know what causes > it and how > > to fix it, please help >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34689	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/21/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) - 3G PWC @ noon - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and foraging today - there must have still been some osmotic issues in addition to the pour appetite from the parasites, or else she finally decided to sample the pea meat. - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the ends. Could this be from reducing the salt or is it something I should worry about? - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time I do something that requires getting the fish out of the way. "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a night person, too, so it works out, I guess. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to feed them right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian conditioning to start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous owner. If it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after lights out and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the external environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out so things look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in what's going on in the room. A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the fish can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. For example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than inside, the glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very well. If you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much better. I'm not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly against the glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank at an angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the tank when the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look from the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through them rather than get the mirror effect. I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our public aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank but I also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when I'm in the room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they can see even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are on, compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the fungus) - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, after I turn off the lamp at night. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without knowing what's available. Do they have a website? Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. which often leads to swim bladder disorders. Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will slowly reduce the salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help until Monday? - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on > the > > right > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's reading, and > I > > didn't > > > do a > > > > PWC > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered the > water > > level > > > so > > > > I > > > > > can see > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future water > > changes. I'll > > > > look > > > > > into an > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > budget > > right > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34690	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

OK. So your plan is working. I'm not sure about the capful process unless you previously knew this to be an accurate measurement for that volume tank... but I'm glad it only raised it to 4ppm. What you should do now is monitor the ammonia each day and bring it back up to 4-5ppm. Since it's in that color range where it's hard to tell if it's 2 or 4, let it get to where you can tell it's definitely 2 and then add 1 drop per gallon and retest. Or you could try 1/2 a capful since a full capful brought it up to 4ppm, 1/2 capful should only add 2ppm back to the tank. After adding the 1/2 capful, test and if it's back up to 4ppm, then you know you can add that dose whenever it gets down to 2ppm. What is your KH level... if you have that test? Or do you know if you have soft or hard water? Do you know the pH? Give us all of your test results for each test you have, preferably ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and water temp, and I can help further. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cloudy water i added about a capfull and the reading was 4 yesterday, and it's still around 2-4 right now --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oh OK. You do know that you have to control the amount of ammonia that you > add.. right? Usually 3 to 5 drops per gallon and then measure it to make > sure you don't go over 4-5ppm while you are starting the fishless cycle. > > I'm not sure why you didn't see the white cloud before in previous fishless > cycles but it's more likely to happen when you seed the filter system than > when you let the nitrogen cycle develop naturally. > > Give us your test results while you have the cloud so we can see what the > numbers say. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 10:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cloudy water > > the gravel from one of my established tanks is in the intake reservior and > the ammona is just ammonia, i didn't get it from a tank i pour some in and > give the bacteria a chance to build up and convert it before i add fish, i > did the same thing when starting my last tank and it seemd to work perfectly > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > What do you mean by "added ammonia... from established tank"? I > under stand > > the gravel, decor, etc., but not sure how you can add ammonia from > an > > established tank since an established tank should not have any > ammonia in > > it. > > > > If you also transferred some detritus with the gravel from the > established > > tank, that's good since you don't mention having fish in the newly > set up > > tank and the nitrifying bacteria need an ammonia source or they'll > die off. > > > > Normally, the white cloudy water in a newly set up tank is from a > bacterial > > bloom.. usually the nitrifying bacteria blooming in the water > column until > > they find a surface area to call home. Most of them will live in > your > > filter system media (sponges, floss pads, bio-media, etc.) but > they will > > also live on the surface of the gravel, on plants, decorations and > even the > > glass. > > > > Where did you put the "used" gravel? Since you mention "black > gravel" and > > then later mention "added ammonia and gravel from an established > tank", I'm > > guessing that the black gravel was new. The used gravel or cycled > filter > > media would be best if put into the reservoir of your new filter > system but > > once again, this should not be done until you are also ready to > add some > > fish or the nitrifying bacteria will starve without a source of > ammonia. > > > > Give us more details and chronology if the above did not answer > your > > questions. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water > > > > 29 gallon bio cube, fresh water, just set up, added some decor, > black > > gravel, two live plants, one is planted in drift wood, added > ammonia and > > gravel from an established tank. this is the second day it's been > running, I > > woke up this morning and the water was milky cloudy looking. I > have not > > experienced this with my other tanks, so i don't know what causes > it and how > > to fix it, please help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34691	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

The red streaks can be from several issues. Stress (we know they've had that), ammonia poisoning (we know they've had to deal with that a little), internal bacterial issues resulting in Hemorrhagic Septicemia but the Maracyn Two treatment should have beat this back so lets hope that it's just the stress and ammonia that is causing the red streaks. How has your cycling been coming along? Is the ammonia and nitrite down to 0.0ppm yet? Give us the numbers... so test before doing your next PWC so we can see how they are doing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) - 3G PWC @ noon - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and foraging today - there must have still been some osmotic issues in addition to the pour appetite from the parasites, or else she finally decided to sample the pea meat. - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the ends. Could this be from reducing the salt or is it something I should worry about? - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time I do something that requires getting the fish out of the way. "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a night person, too, so it works out, I guess. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to feed them right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian conditioning to start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous owner. If it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after lights out and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the external environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out so things look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in what's going on in the room. A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the fish can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. For example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than inside, the glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very well. If you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much better. I'm not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly against the glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank at an angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the tank when the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look from the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through them rather than get the mirror effect. I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our public aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank but I also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when I'm in the room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they can see even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are on, compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the fungus) - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, after I turn off the lamp at night. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without knowing what's available. Do they have a website? Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. which often leads to swim bladder disorders. Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will slowly reduce the salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help until Monday? - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this subject, I > find > > the > > > need to question your present salt content and your methods > > with > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these levels -- > only > > if to > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to see > > that "Carol > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has improved > > even > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to be > quite > > as well > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will not > see > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > recuperating. > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it was at > 3.7 > > tsp > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > changes > > since. > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would have > > reduced > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > gallon. > > If > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, this > would > > now > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% PWC's > > since last > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm now > > wondering if > > > even that level was correct in your method of figuring. > Maybe > > you > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would seem that > > your > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > especially > > with > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning these > results > > as > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips (which > can > > often > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether the > > reagents may > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > Jungles' > > Fungus > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit still > not > > as > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately 3.4tsp/G > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs since > > yesterday's > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: <.25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue what it > is. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that part and > > missed it > > > in > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your source > > water is > > > not > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that is not > as > > > injurious > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. While > we > > strive > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as we > can), > > there is > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most fish as > > that's > > > still > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm shows > your > > tank > > > is > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or more > > frequent > > > PWC's > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > straightened out > > > you > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at least > ones > > that the > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind adding some > to > > their > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part of > their > > food, > > > and > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as part > of > > their > > > diet > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- term if > you > > add > > > it. > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > medications > > to > > > water > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest changing > out > > enough > > > water > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per gallon. > > You're not > > > too > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may not > make > > that > > > much > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful minimum > of 3 > > tsp > > > per > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > tolerable > > > range. > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of salt, > > even > > > though > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended for them > on > > some > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish is > > approaching, > > > if > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt levels. > > Cyprinidae > > > are > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > toleration -- > > they > > > can > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add medications > > while > > > there > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as some > > medications > > > (and > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) contain > salt as > > part > > > of > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you may > add > > > additional > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- checking this > > factor > > > will > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level during > > > treatments. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the zeros were > > baseline > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank seems to > be > > cycling > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as that > likes > > to > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I also > asked > > my dd > > > and > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my memory > that > > was > > > off. > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and lowering the > > saline > > > with > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > 3.7tsp/G > > in the > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before using > one > > of > > > the > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting more > > normal > > > today, > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank at the > > moment. I > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding further > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' plight > now > > for a > > > > number of > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment would > > eliminate this > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and undoubtedly > did > > to > > > some > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these fish's > health > > in > > > their > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to go in > > reverse, > > > it > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, at > least > > to me > > > > (unless > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > capacity > > at 20 > > > > gallons > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd has > come up > > with > > > 30 > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, perhaps > > you'd > > > like to > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are so > that > > we can > > > get > > > > a > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time you > had 90 > > tsp > > > of > > > > salt > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, that > would > > equate > > > to 4 > > > > 1/2 > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than 0.3% > of > > salt in > > > > their > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to 2.4 tsp > per > > > gallon > > > > (not 3 > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can tolerate > more > > I > > > felt it > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the time > (note: > > this > > > > measure > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all fish do > have > > their > > > > limits > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and some > > Cichlids > > > > seeming to > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish (Cory's, > etc.) > > > having > > > > the > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish included) > being > > > somewhere in > > > > the > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > establish > > just > > > what > > > > your > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, it > could > > act > > > > adversely > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing further > > advancement of > > > the > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level of sale > > affecting > > > > your > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live plants. I > know > > this > > > is > > > > the > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for the > benefit > > of > > > other > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the tank > is > > done > > > > gradually > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most aquatic > plants > > will > > > > tolerate > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; Cabomba, > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > readings > > of > > > several > > > > days > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to 0.5 ppm > and > > both > > > your > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm (indicating > your > > cycle > > > > suddenly > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the next > day > > your > > > > nitrite > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm and > your > > > nitrate > > > > was > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to 0.25 > ppm). > > A > > > > discrepency > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of erroneous > test > > result > > > (or > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing the > issue, > > I'd > > > suggest > > > > you > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest this > > disease. > > > > Those > > > > > medications would include any of the following: > > A.P.I.'s > > > Furan > > > > II, > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's Fungus > Clear > > Tank > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and Furadolazone as > their > > main > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the Rid- > > Ich/Malachite > > > > Green > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, but not > > all, > > > Fungal > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is acting > > somewhat > > > weak > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming with > Lucille > > and > > > > generally > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > watching > > the > > > what we > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > hasn't > > improved > > > at > > > > all > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one side > and > > seems > > > to be > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas at the > > base of > > > her > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of them, > > because CB > > > seems > > > > a > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra food > they're > > > getting I > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so save > your > > money > > > for > > > > the > > > > > bigger > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > lowering > > the > > > water a > > > > > little (or > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water fall > to > > create > > > > enough > > > > > surface > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > exchange. > > That > > > and > > > > live > > > > > plants are > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up and the > CO2 > > levels > > > > down. > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > Hopefully > > Raven > > > will > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34692	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Red streaking in goldfish fins generally mean issues with nitrogenous wastes. Looking back, I do note that you do have readings for both ammonia and nitrites. In your situation, it may be wise to consider the use of an ammonia gulping zeolite as is being discussed elsewhere on the list. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 12:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) > > - 3G PWC @ noon > - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) > - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and foraging today - there must have > still been some osmotic issues in addition to the pour appetite from the parasites, or else she > finally decided to sample the pea meat. > - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the ends. Could this be from > reducing the salt or is it something I should worry about? > - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time I do something that requires > getting the fish out of the way. "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" > > > Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a night person, too, so it > works out, I guess. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to feed them > right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian conditioning to > start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous owner. If > it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after lights out > and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the external > environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out so things > look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in what's > going on in the room. > > A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the fish > can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. For > example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than inside, the > glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very well. If > you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much better. I'm > not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly against the > glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank at an > angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the tank when > the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look from > the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through them > rather than get the mirror effect. > > I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our public > aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank but I > also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when I'm in the > room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they can see > even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are on, > compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) > > - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I > figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the > fungus) > - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch > > Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, > after I turn off the lamp at night. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask > them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. > There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer > sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I > doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that > most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was > just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes > tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever > happened to fall nearby. > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said > it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure > the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the > Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt > to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to > get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I > CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will > slowly reduce the salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help > until Monday? > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be > seen. > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about > that. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from > the beginning? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I > can treat with the PraziPro. > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't > really 20G in the tank right now. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at > the time. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > osmoregulatory issues. > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping > motion? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's > PWC) > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will > act in the manner you're describing. > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > (depending on lighting) > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from > the Tetra flakes? > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure > how much more CB can take. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles > Fungus Clear added): > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a > bit. > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC 11pm > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- > ---------------- > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > column, it > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > bladders, as > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > would > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > being a > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > bacterial. > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > Hexamita, > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > and > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > they > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > they > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > infections > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > impossible > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > microscope). > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > clearing up > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > medications > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > Since > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > the > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > fungus > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > (unless you > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > shipped > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > another 4 > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > should > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > normal > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > an > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > remove it. > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > treatment > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > in > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > the > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > find > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > contact > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > (treats > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > $32.74 > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > effective as > > of 12/10/08. > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > mention for > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > a > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > can use > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > pond > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > priced > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > that's > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > One > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > Tabs) or > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > Both > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > for > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > little > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > also > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > source > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > Jungles > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > bottom > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > choice, > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > too > > much. > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > some is > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > see > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > food > > to Omega One pellets) > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > not > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > has > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > most > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > shiny, > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > probably > > a sign of healing? > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > is set > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > scraped > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > concerned > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > related > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > instructions > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > a 25% > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > put the > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > before we > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > sales. > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > stripped > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > slate- > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > what I'd > > do without you guys. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > as > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > discouraging. > > If, by > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > surface > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > glass > > in > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > at the > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > not > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > by the > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > bouyed > > up at > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > bladders > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > choice > > rather > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > possible > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > on > > their > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > and > > is > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > being > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > written > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > and > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > something > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > temperature? > > Are > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > apparent? > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > you > > have > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > extent as > > to > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > may > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > the > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > up to > > 55 > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > them. > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > as > > again > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > support) > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > bond/seal > > between > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > yet > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > and > > Lenny > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > joints, > > you > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > choice) > > in re- > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > environment > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > reptile > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > to be > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > fish > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > elevated > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > all > > the medical > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > in > > the hospital > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > to be > > absorbed > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > out > > by their > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > which > > is > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > at the > > surface, > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > return. The > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > All > > the agitation > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > there > > is more gas > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > waves. > > The up/down > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > of a > > tank > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > since they > > do not > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > I > > guess if it was > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > removing all the > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > a > > price. I've > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > that > > used to have > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > year. > > Tell them > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > to > > about $25.00. > > > ;-) > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > that > > shouldn't > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > plastic > > of the same > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > sure > > the front > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > someone > > removed that > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > where > > the glass had > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > over 400 > > pounds of > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > let me > > know. I > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > Fungus > > Clear. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > Jungle > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > bottom. > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > (do > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > CB > > also > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > there. > > And > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > up > > every > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > problem > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > wouldn't they > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > the > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > Craigslist > > for > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > resealing, > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > out > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > the > > plastic > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > accept a > > fish > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > I see > > that > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > this > > tank > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > see > > how I > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > boxes to > > see > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > only 18G > > of > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > more > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > returned 3G > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > 3G, but > > only > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > removing > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > of > > water > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > nitrite > > levels > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > than". > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > kit a > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > anywhere. > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > dragging. > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > Clear > > starts > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > there's > > only > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > bit > > won't > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > from > > his > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this > subject, I > > find > > > the > > > > need to question your present salt content and your > methods > > > with > > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these > levels -- > > only > > > if to > > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to > see > > > that "Carol > > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has > improved > > > even > > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to > be > > quite > > > as well > > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will > not > > see > > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > > recuperating. > > > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it > was at > > 3.7 > > > tsp > > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > > changes > > > since. > > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would > have > > > reduced > > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > > gallon. > > > If > > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, > this > > would > > > now > > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% > PWC's > > > since last > > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm > now > > > wondering if > > > > even that level was correct in your method of > figuring. > > Maybe > > > you > > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would > seem that > > > your > > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > > especially > > > with > > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning > these > > results > > > as > > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips > (which > > can > > > often > > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether > the > > > reagents may > > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > > Jungles' > > > Fungus > > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit > still > > not > > > as > > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately > 3.4tsp/G > > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs > since > > > yesterday's > > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: > <.25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue > what it > > is. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that > part and > > > missed it > > > > in > > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your > source > > > water is > > > > not > > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that > is not > > as > > > > injurious > > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. > While > > we > > > strive > > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as > we > > can), > > > there is > > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most > fish as > > > that's > > > > still > > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm > shows > > your > > > tank > > > > is > > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or > more > > > frequent > > > > PWC's > > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > > straightened out > > > > you > > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at > least > > ones > > > that the > > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind > adding some > > to > > > their > > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part > of > > their > > > food, > > > > and > > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as > part > > of > > > their > > > > diet > > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- > term if > > you > > > add > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > > medications > > > to > > > > water > > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest > changing > > out > > > enough > > > > water > > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per > gallon. > > > You're not > > > > too > > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may > not > > make > > > that > > > > much > > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful > minimum > > of 3 > > > tsp > > > > per > > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > > tolerable > > > > range. > > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of > salt, > > > even > > > > though > > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended > for them > > on > > > some > > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish > is > > > approaching, > > > > if > > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt > levels. > > > Cyprinidae > > > > are > > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > > toleration -- > > > they > > > > can > > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add > medications > > > while > > > > there > > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as > some > > > medications > > > > (and > > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) > contain > > salt as > > > part > > > > of > > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you > may > > add > > > > additional > > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- > checking this > > > factor > > > > will > > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level > during > > > > treatments. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the > zeros were > > > baseline > > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank > seems to > > be > > > cycling > > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as > that > > likes > > > to > > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I > also > > asked > > > my dd > > > > and > > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my > memory > > that > > > was > > > > off. > > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and > lowering the > > > saline > > > > with > > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > > 3.7tsp/G > > > in the > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before > using > > one > > > of > > > > the > > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting > more > > > normal > > > > today, > > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank > at the > > > moment. I > > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding > further > > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a > fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' > plight > > now > > > for a > > > > > number of > > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment > would > > > eliminate this > > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and > undoubtedly > > did > > > to > > > > some > > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these > fish's > > health > > > in > > > > their > > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to > go in > > > reverse, > > > > it > > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, > at > > least > > > to me > > > > > (unless > > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > > capacity > > > at 20 > > > > > gallons > > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd > has > > come up > > > with > > > > 30 > > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, > perhaps > > > you'd > > > > like to > > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are > so > > that > > > we can > > > > get > > > > > a > > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time > you > > had 90 > > > tsp > > > > of > > > > > salt > > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, > that > > would > > > equate > > > > to 4 > > > > > 1/2 > > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than > 0.3% > > of > > > salt in > > > > > their > > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to > 2.4 tsp > > per > > > > gallon > > > > > (not 3 > > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can > tolerate > > more > > > I > > > > felt it > > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the > time > > (note: > > > this > > > > > measure > > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all > fish do > > have > > > their > > > > > limits > > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and > some > > > Cichlids > > > > > seeming to > > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish > (Cory's, > > etc.) > > > > having > > > > > the > > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish > included) > > being > > > > somewhere in > > > > > the > > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > > establish > > > just > > > > what > > > > > your > > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, > it > > could > > > act > > > > > adversely > > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing > further > > > advancement of > > > > the > > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level > of sale > > > affecting > > > > > your > > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live > plants. I > > know > > > this > > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for > the > > benefit > > > of > > > > other > > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the > tank > > is > > > done > > > > > gradually > > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most > aquatic > > plants > > > will > > > > > tolerate > > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; > Cabomba, > > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > > readings > > > of > > > > several > > > > > days > > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to > 0.5 ppm > > and > > > both > > > > your > > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm > (indicating > > your > > > cycle > > > > > suddenly > > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the > next > > day > > > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm > and > > your > > > > nitrate > > > > > was > > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to > 0.25 > > ppm). > > > A > > > > > discrepency > > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of > erroneous > > test > > > result > > > > (or > > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing > the > > issue, > > > I'd > > > > suggest > > > > > you > > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest > this > > > disease. > > > > > Those > > > > > > medications would include any of the > following: > > > A.P.I.'s > > > > Furan > > > > > II, > > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's > Fungus > > Clear > > > Tank > > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and > Furadolazone as > > their > > > main > > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the > Rid- > > > Ich/Malachite > > > > > Green > > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, > but not > > > all, > > > > Fungal > > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is > acting > > > somewhat > > > > weak > > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming > with > > Lucille > > > and > > > > > generally > > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > > watching > > > the > > > > what we > > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > > hasn't > > > improved > > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one > side > > and > > > seems > > > > to be > > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas > at the > > > base of > > > > her > > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of > them, > > > because CB > > > > seems > > > > > a > > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra > food > > they're > > > > getting I > > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so > save > > your > > > money > > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > bigger > > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > > lowering > > > the > > > > water a > > > > > > little (or > > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water > fall > > to > > > create > > > > > enough > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > > exchange. > > > That > > > > and > > > > > live > > > > > > plants are > > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up > and the > > CO2 > > > levels > > > > > down. > > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > > Hopefully > > > Raven > > > > will > > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on > > the > > > right > > > > side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's > reading, and > > I > > > didn't > > > > do a > > > > > PWC > > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered > the > > water > > > level > > > > so > > > > > I > > > > > > can see > > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to > the > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future > water > > > changes. I'll > > > > > look > > > > > > into an > > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > > budget > > > right > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34693	From: greychildren	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

I'm using a single cfl light bulb it says 75w on it from walmart. I'm asking due to some of my plants are melting... Thank you steve --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Are you currently using CFL's? What type fluorescent bulbs are they? Are they general spectrum or do they have a designation? Any idea of the lumen output? > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > greychildren > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > > > hey guys > > > > Im sorry but i have a question on this topic...what type of lighting > > should i have for my 40g planted tank.. im corently using a 75w > > florecent buld..is this enouf or two much? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > As I mentioned in my reply, comparing wattage was for savings you > > might obtain using CFLs. As I mentioned in my reply, output, in > > lumens, a real measure of light output is much greater per watt in > > CFLs than it is in the regular fluorescent and incandescent bulbs. > > > > > > Currently, there are a large number of options available for > > lighting an aquarium. Each has their positive and negative aspects. > > Here is a general list: > > > > > > 1. Incandescent lights > > > 2. Fluorescent lights > > > 3. Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum > > > 4. High output (HO) and Very High Output (VHO) fluorescent lights > > > 5. Metal Halide lights > > > 6. Compact fluorescent lights > > > 7. Compact Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum > > > 8. Light emitting diodes (LED) > > > > > > Most of these categories can be broken down further, can be used in > > combination, etc., giving one an awful wide choice of lighting. > > > > > > Frankly, most people arrive at their current lighting scheme more > > by happenstance than by planning. I've got to admit that I am in this > > group. What we should be doing is looking at the type of tank we are > > going to be keeping and choose the best lighting available that will > > fit our purchase budget (some lighting options can be very expensive > > to purchase and operate).Lighting for a fish only tank is, and should > > be, very different than lighting used for a planted tank with fish. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:06 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > > > I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent with > > either > > > > fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple > > comparison, > > > > it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in > > > > incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL to > > CFL, etc. > > > > A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W > > incandescent. A > > > > 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And > > since you > > > > brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you > > were living on > > > > the Sun. ;-) > > > > > > > > I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. > > > > > > > > Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather than > > the amount > > > > of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% of > > the energy > > > > used is creating heat rather than light. I never really realized > > it but > > > > recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out up > > to 10 times > > > > more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 > > times... when you > > > > look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent's are much more > > efficient > > > > in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb > > itself (just > > > > some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more > > efficient than > > > > the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE > > efficient than > > > > all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite high > > when I was > > > > looking at them online recently. > > > > > > > > For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with > > two 40W > > > > tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy > > anyhow and the > > > > fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics when > > they look > > > > up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money > > (not likely > > > > since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the > > grave yet and I > > > > don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely go > > with one of > > > > the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so that > > the light > > > > will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the evening, > > until off, > > > > more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will > > come on so > > > > you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and > > energy > > > > efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already > > available as > > > > add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or > > wants to use > > > > the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the > > environmental > > > > impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there any > > hazardous > > > > substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to > > save on > > > > electrical costs, are the LED lights. > > > > > > > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to > > light tanks. > > > > They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many > > more lumens > > > > per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a > > planted > > > > aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have > > basically a > > > > fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard > > fluorescent bulb. AS > > > > the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less > > expensive, that is > > > > not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the > > gap is > > > > closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked > > into it, do > > > > your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning > > out, as do > > > > standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely you > > will > > > > replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a > > total of 1 > > > > watt with three and 14 watts with 2. > > > > > > > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different > > type of > > > > light, and should not be under consideration. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > > > bill1433 > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most > > interesting. It > > > > > seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting > > and one > > > > > suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an > > aquarium. > > > > > > > > > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using > > the > > > > > standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use of > > > > > Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a > > light bulb in > > > > replacement of the tube type fixture. > > > > > > > > > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better over- > > all > > > > > illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also > > better for > > > > > aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion > > on list > > > > > but I¢ve only been here a short time. Is any of this true? If > > so > > > > > which part or parts? I have seen hoods for incandescent lights > > but > > > > > they were all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon. Or is this > > what they > > > > are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate > > larger > > > > tanks? > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34694	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

Which plants are melting? The 75W CFL should be plenty of lighting for most plants in a 40G tank. I checked the WalMart.com site but they do not have that size CFL listed... only a 10W CFL for 10G type incandescent hoods. Can you give us more info about the bulb? Manufacturer... G.E., Phillips, etc.? Is it a long tube, spirally bulb, dual or quad mini-tube that plugs in on one end, etc.? The reason I ask all of this is that there is a spirally bulb that will screw into a normal incandescent light socket that advertises that it puts out equal to a 75W incandescent bulb but it's only 20W... http://www.thebulb.com/store/p-17-compact-fluorescent-cfl-75-watt-replacemen t-bulbs.aspx I think, with the advent of so many different types of light bulbs, lighting systems, etc., the aquarium industry will have to, and probably should have already moved away from using "Watts Per Gallon" as any kind of a guideline since it really is Lumens and Color Spectrum that is something that is easier to compare Apples to Apples where Watts are like comparing Apples to Oranges. While were getting more details from you, also give us your tank dimensions as the height of the tank plays an important role in lighting since the light will not penetrate into deeper tanks enough to provide adequate lighting to bottom level plants. Read down and try to answer the other questions asked as well. If you do a Google Shopping or Yahoo Shopping search for "compact fluorescent light", you will see the many varieties of these bulbs and maybe even find the exact type that you have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? I'm using a single cfl light bulb it says 75w on it from walmart. I'm asking due to some of my plants are melting... Thank you steve --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Are you currently using CFL's? What type fluorescent bulbs are they? Are they general spectrum or do they have a designation? Any idea of the lumen output? > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > greychildren > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > > > hey guys > > > > Im sorry but i have a question on this topic...what type of lighting > > should i have for my 40g planted tank.. im corently using a 75w > > florecent buld..is this enouf or two much? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > As I mentioned in my reply, comparing wattage was for savings you > > might obtain using CFLs. As I mentioned in my reply, output, in > > lumens, a real measure of light output is much greater per watt in > > CFLs than it is in the regular fluorescent and incandescent bulbs. > > > > > > Currently, there are a large number of options available for > > lighting an aquarium. Each has their positive and negative aspects. > > Here is a general list: > > > > > > 1. Incandescent lights > > > 2. Fluorescent lights > > > 3. Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum 4. High output (HO) > > > and Very High Output (VHO) fluorescent lights 5. Metal Halide > > > lights 6. Compact fluorescent lights 7. Compact Fluorescent lights > > > with a defined spectrum 8. Light emitting diodes (LED) > > > > > > Most of these categories can be broken down further, can be used > > > in > > combination, etc., giving one an awful wide choice of lighting. > > > > > > Frankly, most people arrive at their current lighting scheme more > > by happenstance than by planning. I've got to admit that I am in > > this group. What we should be doing is looking at the type of tank > > we are going to be keeping and choose the best lighting available > > that will fit our purchase budget (some lighting options can be very > > expensive to purchase and operate).Lighting for a fish only tank is, > > and should be, very different than lighting used for a planted tank with fish. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:06 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > > > I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent > > > > with > > either > > > > fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple > > comparison, > > > > it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in > > > > incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL to > > CFL, etc. > > > > A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W > > incandescent. A > > > > 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And > > since you > > > > brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you > > were living on > > > > the Sun. ;-) > > > > > > > > I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. > > > > > > > > Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather than > > the amount > > > > of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% of > > the energy > > > > used is creating heat rather than light. I never really realized > > it but > > > > recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out up > > to 10 times > > > > more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 > > times... when you > > > > look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent's are much more > > efficient > > > > in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb > > itself (just > > > > some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more > > efficient than > > > > the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE > > efficient than > > > > all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite > > > > high > > when I was > > > > looking at them online recently. > > > > > > > > For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with > > two 40W > > > > tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy > > anyhow and the > > > > fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics when > > they look > > > > up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money > > (not likely > > > > since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the > > grave yet and I > > > > don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely go > > with one of > > > > the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so > > > > that > > the light > > > > will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the > > > > evening, > > until off, > > > > more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will > > come on so > > > > you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and > > energy > > > > efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already > > available as > > > > add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or > > wants to use > > > > the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the > > environmental > > > > impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there any > > hazardous > > > > substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to > > save on > > > > electrical costs, are the LED lights. > > > > > > > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to > > light tanks. > > > > They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many > > more lumens > > > > per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a > > planted > > > > aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have > > basically a > > > > fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard > > fluorescent bulb. AS > > > > the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less > > expensive, that is > > > > not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the > > gap is > > > > closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked > > into it, do > > > > your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning > > out, as do > > > > standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely > > > > you > > will > > > > replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a > > total of 1 > > > > watt with three and 14 watts with 2. > > > > > > > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different > > type of > > > > light, and should not be under consideration. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > > > bill1433 > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most > > interesting. It > > > > > seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting > > and one > > > > > suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an > > aquarium. > > > > > > > > > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using > > the > > > > > standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use > > > > > of Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a > > light bulb in > > > > replacement of the tube type fixture. > > > > > > > > > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better > > > > > over- > > all > > > > > illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also > > better for > > > > > aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion > > on list > > > > > but I¢ve only been here a short time. Is any of this true? If > > so > > > > > which part or parts? I have seen hoods for incandescent lights > > but > > > > > they were all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon. Or is this > > what they > > > > are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate > > larger > > > > tanks? > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34695	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

I've never treated with Maracyn Two. I've used Malachite Green, Fungus Clear, and salt. The ammonia and nitrite seem to stay at about .25ppm no matter what I do. They went for 4 days between PWCs with the Fungus Clear and the ammonia still didn't get much over .25ppm, but the nitrate level went up some. I'll be doing a Tank reading this morning, so I'll post those results. The next PWC is at noon. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The red streaks can be from several issues. Stress (we know they've had that), ammonia poisoning (we know they've had to deal with that a little), internal bacterial issues resulting in Hemorrhagic Septicemia but the Maracyn Two treatment should have beat this back so lets hope that it's just the stress and ammonia that is causing the red streaks. How has your cycling been coming along? Is the ammonia and nitrite down to 0.0ppm yet? Give us the numbers... so test before doing your next PWC so we can see how they are doing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) - 3G PWC @ noon - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and foraging today - there must have still been some osmotic issues in addition to the pour appetite from the parasites, or else she finally decided to sample the pea meat. - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the ends. Could this be from reducing the salt or is it something I should worry about? - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time I do something that requires getting the fish out of the way. "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a night person, too, so it works out, I guess. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to feed them right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian conditioning to start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous owner. If it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after lights out and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the external environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out so things look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in what's going on in the room. A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the fish can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. For example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than inside, the glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very well. If you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much better. I'm not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly against the glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank at an angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the tank when the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look from the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through them rather than get the mirror effect. I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our public aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank but I also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when I'm in the room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they can see even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are on, compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the fungus) - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, after I turn off the lamp at night. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without knowing what's available. Do they have a website? Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. which often leads to swim bladder disorders. Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will slowly reduce the salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help until Monday? - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>,"Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34696	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Wouldn't the salt in the water negate the zeolite? I'm almost down to 1tsp/G. It'll be another day or two before the level is negligible. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 6:01 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Red streaking in goldfish fins generally mean issues with nitrogenous wastes. Looking back, I do note that you do have readings for both ammonia and nitrites. In your situation, it may be wise to consider the use of an ammonia gulping zeolite as is being discussed elsewhere on the list. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 12:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) > > - 3G PWC @ noon > - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) > - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and foraging today - there must have > still been some osmotic issues in addition to the pour appetite from the parasites, or else she > finally decided to sample the pea meat. > - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the ends. Could this be from > reducing the salt or is it something I should worry about? > - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time I do something that requires > getting the fish out of the way. "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" > > > Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a night person, too, so it > works out, I guess. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to feed them > right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian conditioning to > start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous owner. If > it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after lights out > and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the external > environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out so things > look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in what's > going on in the room. > > A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the fish > can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. For > example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than inside, the > glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very well. If > you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much better. I'm > not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly against the > glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank at an > angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the tank when > the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look from > the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through them > rather than get the mirror effect. > > I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our public > aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank but I > also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when I'm in the > room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they can see > even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are on, > compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) > > - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I > figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the > fungus) > - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch > > Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, > after I turn off the lamp at night. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask > them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. > There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer > sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I > doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that > most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was > just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes > tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever > happened to fall nearby. > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said > it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure > the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the > Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt > to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to > get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I > CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will > slowly reduce the salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help > until Monday? > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be > seen. > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about > that. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from > the beginning? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I > can treat with the PraziPro. > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't > really 20G in the tank right now. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at > the time. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > osmoregulatory issues. > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping > motion? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's > PWC) > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will > act in the manner you're describing. > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > (depending on lighting) > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from > the Tetra flakes? > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure > how much more CB can take. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34697	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: test kits

but it would be worth it in the long run... and they would feed the fish, so that's a good thing too!!! LOL yeah but with all the poisons they spew out it might end up killing the fish off !! lake Superior is bigger than lake Ontario :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34698	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: OT: unsub from grouply

could you please repost the link to unsub from grouply your email addys? my friend has lots of trouble with them i won't go near them with a 10 foot pole ! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34699	From: greychildren	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+3810&pcatid=3810 here's the light bulb i use found it on DrsForter. The plant i have not found what type it is I been looking around for it. According to my buddy who gave me this plants they came from the local canal.. they look like this one.. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+1626&pcatid=1626 ones again you guys are the best..thanks for the help --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Which plants are melting? > > The 75W CFL should be plenty of lighting for most plants in a 40G tank. I > checked the WalMart.com site but they do not have that size CFL listed... > only a 10W CFL for 10G type incandescent hoods. > > Can you give us more info about the bulb? Manufacturer... G.E., Phillips, > etc.? Is it a long tube, spirally bulb, dual or quad mini-tube that plugs > in on one end, etc.? > > The reason I ask all of this is that there is a spirally bulb that will > screw into a normal incandescent light socket that advertises that it puts > out equal to a 75W incandescent bulb but it's only 20W... > http://www.thebulb.com/store/p-17-compact-fluorescent-cfl-75-watt-replacemen > t-bulbs.aspx > > I think, with the advent of so many different types of light bulbs, lighting > systems, etc., the aquarium industry will have to, and probably should have > already moved away from using "Watts Per Gallon" as any kind of a guideline > since it really is Lumens and Color Spectrum that is something that is > easier to compare Apples to Apples where Watts are like comparing Apples to > Oranges. > > While were getting more details from you, also give us your tank dimensions > as the height of the tank plays an important role in lighting since the > light will not penetrate into deeper tanks enough to provide adequate > lighting to bottom level plants. > > Read down and try to answer the other questions asked as well. > > If you do a Google Shopping or Yahoo Shopping search for "compact > fluorescent light", you will see the many varieties of these bulbs and maybe > even find the exact type that you have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > I'm using a single cfl light bulb it says 75w on it from walmart. I'm asking > due to some of my plants are melting... > > Thank you steve > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Are you currently using CFL's? What type fluorescent bulbs are they? > Are they general spectrum or do they have a designation? Any idea of the > lumen output? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of > > > greychildren > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:54 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > > > > > hey guys > > > > > > Im sorry but i have a question on this topic...what type of lighting > > > should i have for my 40g planted tank.. im corently using a 75w > > > florecent buld..is this enouf or two much? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > As I mentioned in my reply, comparing wattage was for savings you > > > might obtain using CFLs. As I mentioned in my reply, output, in > > > lumens, a real measure of light output is much greater per watt in > > > CFLs than it is in the regular fluorescent and incandescent bulbs. > > > > > > > > Currently, there are a large number of options available for > > > lighting an aquarium. Each has their positive and negative aspects. > > > Here is a general list: > > > > > > > > 1. Incandescent lights > > > > 2. Fluorescent lights > > > > 3. Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum 4. High output (HO) > > > > and Very High Output (VHO) fluorescent lights 5. Metal Halide > > > > lights 6. Compact fluorescent lights 7. Compact Fluorescent lights > > > > with a defined spectrum 8. Light emitting diodes (LED) > > > > > > > > Most of these categories can be broken down further, can be used > > > > in > > > combination, etc., giving one an awful wide choice of lighting. > > > > > > > > Frankly, most people arrive at their current lighting scheme more > > > by happenstance than by planning. I've got to admit that I am in > > > this group. What we should be doing is looking at the type of tank > > > we are going to be keeping and choose the best lighting available > > > that will fit our purchase budget (some lighting options can be very > > > expensive to purchase and operate).Lighting for a fish only tank is, > > > and should be, very different than lighting used for a planted tank with > fish. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:06 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent > > > > > with > > > either > > > > > fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple > > > comparison, > > > > > it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in > > > > > incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL to > > > CFL, etc. > > > > > A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W > > > incandescent. A > > > > > 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And > > > since you > > > > > brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you > > > were living on > > > > > the Sun. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. > > > > > > > > > > Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather than > > > the amount > > > > > of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% of > > > the energy > > > > > used is creating heat rather than light. I never really realized > > > it but > > > > > recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out up > > > to 10 times > > > > > more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 > > > times... when you > > > > > look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent's are much more > > > efficient > > > > > in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb > > > itself (just > > > > > some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more > > > efficient than > > > > > the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE > > > efficient than > > > > > all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite > > > > > high > > > when I was > > > > > looking at them online recently. > > > > > > > > > > For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with > > > two 40W > > > > > tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy > > > anyhow and the > > > > > fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics when > > > they look > > > > > up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money > > > (not likely > > > > > since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the > > > grave yet and I > > > > > don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely go > > > with one of > > > > > the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so > > > > > that > > > the light > > > > > will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the > > > > > evening, > > > until off, > > > > > more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will > > > come on so > > > > > you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and > > > energy > > > > > efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already > > > available as > > > > > add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or > > > wants to use > > > > > the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the > > > environmental > > > > > impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there any > > > hazardous > > > > > substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, to > > > save on > > > > > electrical costs, are the LED lights. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to > > > light tanks. > > > > > They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide many > > > more lumens > > > > > per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a > > > planted > > > > > aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have > > > basically a > > > > > fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard > > > fluorescent bulb. AS > > > > > the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less > > > expensive, that is > > > > > not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though the > > > gap is > > > > > closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked > > > into it, do > > > > > your own research--they still need replacement prior to burning > > > out, as do > > > > > standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely > > > > > you > > > will > > > > > replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save a > > > total of 1 > > > > > watt with three and 14 watts with 2. > > > > > > > > > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different > > > type of > > > > > light, and should not be under consideration. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > > > > bill1433 > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:26 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just heard part of a conversation that I found most > > > interesting. It > > > > > > seems the two people talking were discussing Aquarium lighting > > > and one > > > > > > suggested to the other that there was a better way to light an > > > aquarium. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems their thoughts centered around the idea of NOT using > > > the > > > > > > standard fluorescent type fixture or cover but rather the use > > > > > > of Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs types that screw in like a > > > light bulb in > > > > > replacement of the tube type fixture. > > > > > > > > > > > > Their claims were simply this, cheaper to run with better > > > > > > over- > > > all > > > > > > illumination, cheaper to buy and better life span and also > > > better for > > > > > > aquarium plants. Now I cannot remember seeing this discussion > > > on list > > > > > > but I¢ve only been here a short time. Is any of this true? If > > > so > > > > > > which part or parts? I have seen hoods for incandescent lights > > > but > > > > > > they were all for small aquariums, 5 or 10 gallon. Or is this > > > what they > > > > > are using and simply doubling up on the fixtures to accommodate > > > larger > > > > > tanks? > > > > > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

OK. I thought you had used Maracyn Two early on but it must have been someone else out here with goldfish issues. Even ammonia levels as low as you've kept them (due to your diligence with constant PWC's), will still cause ammonia poisoning issues for the fish... especially when cycling with fish where you have to let the ammonia be there in order to cycle the tank. I scrolled down and found a previous pH test and it was 7.6. With higher pH levels, over 7.5, ammonia becomes MUCH more toxic so a 0.25ppm level of ammonia is a lot worse for fish at 7.6 pH compared to 7.0 pH. Hopefully, that's all it is and it will slowly go away once the tank is fully cycled and there are no longer any issues with ammonia/nitrites... then you'll just have to do lots of PWC's to keep the nitrates low and for general water quality since the tank is still overcrowded. If my memory serves me correctly, your next treatment plan is for PraziPro.. right? At least Prazi is mild and doesn't cause stress to fish like the other things that you've had to use so far. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? I've never treated with Maracyn Two. I've used Malachite Green, Fungus Clear, and salt. The ammonia and nitrite seem to stay at about .25ppm no matter what I do. They went for 4 days between PWCs with the Fungus Clear and the ammonia still didn't get much over .25ppm, but the nitrate level went up some. I'll be doing a Tank reading this morning, so I'll post those results. The next PWC is at noon. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The red streaks can be from several issues. Stress (we know they've had that), ammonia poisoning (we know they've had to deal with that a little), internal bacterial issues resulting in Hemorrhagic Septicemia but the Maracyn Two treatment should have beat this back so lets hope that it's just the stress and ammonia that is causing the red streaks. How has your cycling been coming along? Is the ammonia and nitrite down to 0.0ppm yet? Give us the numbers... so test before doing your next PWC so we can see how they are doing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) - 3G PWC @ noon - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and foraging today - there must have still been some osmotic issues in addition to the pour appetite from the parasites, or else she finally decided to sample the pea meat. - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the ends. Could this be from reducing the salt or is it something I should worry about? - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time I do something that requires getting the fish out of the way. "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a night person, too, so it works out, I guess. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to feed them right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian conditioning to start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous owner. If it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after lights out and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the external environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out so things look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in what's going on in the room. A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the fish can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. For example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than inside, the glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very well. If you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much better. I'm not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly against the glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank at an angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the tank when the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look from the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through them rather than get the mirror effect. I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our public aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank but I also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when I'm in the room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they can see even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are on, compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the fungus) - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, after I turn off the lamp at night. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without knowing what's available. Do they have a website? Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. which often leads to swim bladder disorders. Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will slowly reduce the salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help until Monday? - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be seen. Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from the beginning? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I can treat with the PraziPro. - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? That's good to hear about the cycling. I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't really 20G in the tank right now. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/> > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of osmoregulatory issues. The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping motion? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's PWC) - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. - The PraziPro should arrive any day. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will act in the manner you're describing. I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>,"Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm (depending on lighting) > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from the Tetra flakes? > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure how much more CB can take. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles Fungus Clear added): > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a bit. > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > - PWC 11pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity----- ---------------- > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water column, it > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim bladders, as > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though would > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all being a > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than bacterial. > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan Hexamita, > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, and > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) they > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when they > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic infections > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is impossible > to differentiate from one to another (except under a microscope). > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is clearing up > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix medications > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. Since > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with the > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the fungus > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication (unless you > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have shipped > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in another 4 > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) should > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its normal > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for an > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to remove it. > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for treatment > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, in > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- the > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't find > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, contact > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this direct. > Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 (treats > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ $32.74 > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being effective as > of 12/10/08. > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll mention for > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in a > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one can use > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce pond > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly priced > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all that's > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. One > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke Tabs) or > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. Both > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and for > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying little > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will also > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the source > of its cause. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of Jungles > Fungus Clear): > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the bottom > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their choice, > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed too > much. > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and some is > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to see > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra food > to Omega One pellets) > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - not > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still has > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but most > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and shiny, > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's probably > a sign of healing? > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat is set > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I scraped > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be concerned > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly related > to the fishes' problem? > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The instructions > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following a 25% > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or put the > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, before we > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart sales. > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy anyway. > I totally assume that any used tank will need to be stripped > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the slate- > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > previous inhabitants. > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know what I'd > do without you guys. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen as > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem discouraging. > If, by > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > surface > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the glass > in > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp at the > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would not > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created by the > > filter outlet. > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being bouyed > up at > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > bladders > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their choice > rather > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a possible > > internal infection or not. > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues on > their > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, and > is > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually being > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's written > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on and > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > something > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water temperature? > Are > > there any other external issues that have recently become > apparent? > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if you > have > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any extent as > to > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or may > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in the > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks up to > 55 > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for them. > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, as > again > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > support) > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the bond/seal > between > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not yet > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- and > Lenny > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all joints, > you > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a choice) > in re- > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > environment > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > reptile > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only to be > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for fish > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > elevated > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) The fish are > > probably just really wiped out right now from all > the medical > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay in > the hospital > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has to be > absorbed > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned out > by their > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on which > is > > stressful to fish. > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping at the > surface, > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > return. The > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. All > the agitation > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so there > is more gas > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the waves. > The up/down > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area of a > tank > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards since they > do not > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. I > guess if it was > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > removing all the > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of a > price. I've > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco that > used to have > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a year. > Tell them > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down to > about $25.00. > > ;-) > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, that > shouldn't > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard plastic > of the same > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make sure > the front > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where someone > removed that > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point where > the glass had > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is over 400 > pounds of > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, let me > know. I > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > ---My add-on----- > > (inserted for continuity) > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle Fungus > Clear. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > Jungle > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > bottom. > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin (do > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. CB > also > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang there. > And > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing up > every > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a problem > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, wouldn't they > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from the > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > Nitrate: > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on Craigslist > for > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > resealing, > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it out > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of the > plastic > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to accept a > fish > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but I see > that > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case this > tank > > falls through. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can see > how I > > figured my salt levels. > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the boxes to > see > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually only 18G > of > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get more > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only returned 3G > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned 3G, but > only > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > removing > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G of > water > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and nitrite > levels > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower than". > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test kit a > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date anywhere. > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > dragging. > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus Clear > starts > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though there's > only > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little bit > won't > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back from > his > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34701	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos

that is where i am taking the fish. it is call Nature pet store kinda like a pet smart they have just about everything you need and tons of stuff you don't :) i did not see any Dr. Tim's one and only at that store, will check all the other stores near me maybe i can get it without have to go stateside. i never order anything online Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34702	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: OT: unsub from grouply

http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: unsub from grouply could you please repost the link to unsub from grouply your email addys? my friend has lots of trouble with them i won't go near them with a 10 foot pole ! Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34703	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Monday morning tests results

Light is an Aqua Glo 24" 20W T8 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm PH is 7.4 water is still a bit cloudy temp is 70 i did a 30% PWC and the tests are Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm PH is 7.4 temp is 69 i am off to rehome the 2 plecos i want to get the phosphates re-tested while i am there, see if the levels have come down with the PWC Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34704	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

I think the extra ammonia you added is causing an ammonia bloom, if you can't test the ammonia right now I would at least do PWC's (25% every hour until the water looks clearer). When my tank had the first ammonia bloom it was a white cloudiness. Adding the gravel from an established tank was a good idea though, did you add any fish yet or is it just plants and decorations? Perhaps you added a little too much ammonia if you are trying to fishless cycle? Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > 29 gallon bio cube, fresh water, just set up, added some decor, black > gravel, two live plants, one is planted in drift wood, added ammonia > and gravel from an established tank. this is the second day it's been > running, I woke up this morning and the water was milky cloudy > looking. I have not experienced this with my other tanks, so i don't > know what causes it and how to fix it, please help > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

OK. That's not a 75W bulb and it's not a CFL. It's a regular fluorescent tube. Depending on how long it is will determine the wattage and since you said you have a 40G tank (you never gave us dimensions yet), you could have a 24" or 36" long bulb so either 20W or 30W is all that you may have. Since you mention that it said "75 watts", I'm betting it says something like "compare to 75 watt incandescent bulb" which is what a 20W fluorescent tube would be compared to. If you only have a 24" light fixture under the hood and it only has room for one tube, then you will have to stick with low-light, easy to grow plants. Plantgeek.net has this profile for that plant.. if that is what you have. The long-leaf sag's can appear very similar. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=188 You will see on that profile that it's a moderately hard plant to grow and needs medium high to high lighting and a proper substrate. Here's a snip on the Care of the plant... Care A slow growing plant that will benefit from a nutrient rich substrate. High light and good water movement is preferred. Propagation by runners. Plant can be kept in ponds during the warmer months. The LiveAquaria.com page also suggest 2 to 3 watts per gallon of fluorescent full spectrum bulbs. It's not the best plant to keep with your lighting limitations.. and possibly other tank limitations, such as substrate, etc. Without knowing the measurements of your tank or lighting fixture, it's difficult to make any definite suggestions as to what might work.... but if you only have room for a 24" long light fixture on top of your tank, then you would need dual fixtures that each hold two bulbs so you would be able to increase your lighting to 80 watts (4 x 20W) of fluorescent tubes. If you are handy, you could retrofit your current light fixture to hold two 12" CFL's (one would plug into each end of the fixture) or something like this which is on sale at DFS right now... the 24" fixture for only $56.99 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 &pcatid=9871 That fixture would give you 65 watts of CFL lighting and CFL's give out up to twice the amount of light as old style fluorescent tubes... so that single 65W CFL would be equal to six 20W fluorescent tubes. Go to this page http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=2 and look at the Very Easy and Easy plants which will do much better in low-tech, low-light tanks. Low-tech means no special substrate, no CO2 generation, low to moderate lighting. Print out them pages and send your friend back to the canal to get you better plants. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+3810&pcat id=3810 <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+3810&pca tid=3810> here's the light bulb i use found it on DrsForter. The plant i have not found what type it is I been looking around for it. According to my buddy who gave me this plants they came from the local canal.. they look like this one.. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+1626&pcatid=1626 <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+1626&pcatid=1626> ones again you guys are the best..thanks for the help --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Which plants are melting? > > The 75W CFL should be plenty of lighting for most plants in a 40G tank. I > checked the WalMart.com site but they do not have that size CFL listed... > only a 10W CFL for 10G type incandescent hoods. > > Can you give us more info about the bulb? Manufacturer... G.E., Phillips, > etc.? Is it a long tube, spirally bulb, dual or quad mini-tube that plugs > in on one end, etc.? > > The reason I ask all of this is that there is a spirally bulb that > will screw into a normal incandescent light socket that advertises > that it puts > out equal to a 75W incandescent bulb but it's only 20W... > http://www.thebulb.com/store/p-17-compact-fluorescent-cfl-75-watt-replacemen <http://www.thebulb.com/store/p-17-compact-fluorescent-cfl-75-watt-replaceme n> > t-bulbs.aspx > > I think, with the advent of so many different types of light bulbs, lighting > systems, etc., the aquarium industry will have to, and probably should have > already moved away from using "Watts Per Gallon" as any kind of a guideline > since it really is Lumens and Color Spectrum that is something that is > easier to compare Apples to Apples where Watts are like comparing Apples to > Oranges. > > While were getting more details from you, also give us your tank dimensions > as the height of the tank plays an important role in lighting since > the light will not penetrate into deeper tanks enough to provide > adequate lighting to bottom level plants. > > Read down and try to answer the other questions asked as well. > > If you do a Google Shopping or Yahoo Shopping search for "compact > fluorescent light", you will see the many varieties of these bulbs and maybe > even find the exact type that you have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > I'm using a single cfl light bulb it says 75w on it from walmart. I'm asking > due to some of my plants are melting... > > Thank you steve > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Are you currently using CFL's? What type fluorescent bulbs are they? > Are they general spectrum or do they have a designation? Any idea of > the lumen output? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of > > > greychildren > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:54 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > > > > > hey guys > > > > > > Im sorry but i have a question on this topic...what type of lighting > > > should i have for my 40g planted tank.. im corently using a 75w > > > florecent buld..is this enouf or two much? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > As I mentioned in my reply, comparing wattage was for savings > > > > you > > > might obtain using CFLs. As I mentioned in my reply, output, in > > > lumens, a real measure of light output is much greater per watt in > > > CFLs than it is in the regular fluorescent and incandescent bulbs. > > > > > > > > Currently, there are a large number of options available for > > > lighting an aquarium. Each has their positive and negative aspects. > > > Here is a general list: > > > > > > > > 1. Incandescent lights > > > > 2. Fluorescent lights > > > > 3. Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum 4. High output > > > > (HO) and Very High Output (VHO) fluorescent lights 5. Metal > > > > Halide lights 6. Compact fluorescent lights 7. Compact > > > > Fluorescent lights > > > > with a defined spectrum 8. Light emitting diodes (LED) > > > > > > > > Most of these categories can be broken down further, can be used > > > > in > > > combination, etc., giving one an awful wide choice of lighting. > > > > > > > > Frankly, most people arrive at their current lighting scheme > > > > more > > > by happenstance than by planning. I've got to admit that I am in > > > this group. What we should be doing is looking at the type of tank > > > we are going to be keeping and choose the best lighting available > > > that will fit our purchase budget (some lighting options can be very > > > expensive to purchase and operate).Lighting for a fish only tank is, > > > and should be, very different than lighting used for a planted tank with > fish. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:06 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent > > > > > with > > > either > > > > > fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple > > > comparison, > > > > > it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in > > > > > incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL > > > > > to > > > CFL, etc. > > > > > A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W > > > incandescent. A > > > > > 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And > > > since you > > > > > brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you > > > were living on > > > > > the Sun. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. > > > > > > > > > > Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather > > > > > than > > > the amount > > > > > of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% > > > > > of > > > the energy > > > > > used is creating heat rather than light. I never really > > > > > realized > > > it but > > > > > recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out > > > > > up > > > to 10 times > > > > > more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 > > > times... when you > > > > > look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent's are much > > > > > more > > > efficient > > > > > in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb > > > itself (just > > > > > some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more > > > efficient than > > > > > the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE > > > efficient than > > > > > all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite > > > > > high > > > when I was > > > > > looking at them online recently. > > > > > > > > > > For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with > > > two 40W > > > > > tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy > > > anyhow and the > > > > > fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics > > > > > when > > > they look > > > > > up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money > > > (not likely > > > > > since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the > > > grave yet and I > > > > > don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely > > > > > go > > > with one of > > > > > the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so > > > > > that > > > the light > > > > > will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the > > > > > evening, > > > until off, > > > > > more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will > > > come on so > > > > > you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and > > > energy > > > > > efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already > > > available as > > > > > add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or > > > wants to use > > > > > the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the > > > environmental > > > > > impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there > > > > > any > > > hazardous > > > > > substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, > > > > > to > > > save on > > > > > electrical costs, are the LED lights. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to > > > light tanks. > > > > > They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide > > > > > many > > > more lumens > > > > > per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a > > > planted > > > > > aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have > > > basically a > > > > > fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard > > > fluorescent bulb. AS > > > > > the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less > > > expensive, that is > > > > > not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though > > > > > the > > > gap is > > > > > closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked > > > into it, do > > > > > your own research--they still need replacement prior to > > > > > burning > > > out, as do > > > > > standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely > > > > > you > > > will > > > > > replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save > > > > > a > > > total of 1 > > > > > watt with three and 14 watts with 2. > > > > > > > > > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different > > > type of > > > > > light, and should not be under consideration. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos

OK. Check to see if they have Tetra Safe Start. Tetra recently bought out Marineland which is when Dr. Tim left Marineland and formed his own company. Anyhow.. Tetra supposedly used the original Bio-Spira formula, which Dr. Tim also invented, and repackaged it as Tetra Safe Start. I personally do not like Tetra as a company so I do not endorse their products very often (although a few of them are OK) but if you can't find Dr. Tim's One And Only, then the Safe Start may work... if Tetra didn't screw it up too badly from the original Bio-Spira formula. I don't see either product on BigAlsOnline.com so I'm not sure if the .ca will have them either. In the fish hobby, you might have to change your position on ordering online. You are cutting yourself out of some very reputable companies and products.. unless your local store will order things that you want. That's the good thing about locally owned stores... if you talk to the Manager, they might just order the products you want/need. Considering your online options, any local store would be foolish to not do this for their customers... or if you live close enough to the States and Canada doesn't allow importing of these products, then maybe you could become an unofficial smuggler of Dr. Tim's One And Only product line for you local store. ;-) It sounds like you could make a hefty profit considering the exchange rates and the VAT's added on up there. If your aversion to online shopping is for security reasons, you could set up a PayPal account so you never have to give out your own bank account numbers. PayPal can be set up to debit your checking account, a savings account or a credit card so you don't even need a credit card to shop online with sites that accept PayPal... most do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]was sunday test results now rehoming plecos that is where i am taking the fish. it is call Nature pet store kinda like a pet smart they have just about everything you need and tons of stuff you don't :) i did not see any Dr. Tim's one and only at that store, will check all the other stores near me maybe i can get it without have to go stateside. i never order anything online Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34707	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Monday morning tests results

What about nitrate? Do you have that test? Or is that the one you were missing the card and instructions for? Of course, with the zeolite in your filters, the nitrate would probably be 0 ppm also since you won't get nitrates without getting ammonia first. Do not be overly concerned with the phosphate levels unless algae becomes an issue... which it could.. but it would be God's way of helping the ecology of your tank since algae would also help with sucking up nitrogenous wastes and CO2 and put out O2 which the fish need. Once you get a bigger tank, if you want an algae eater, you could go with a Clown Pleco or Bristle Nosed Pleco which both stay smaller. The Clown Pleco is smaller than the BN.. and lower priced.. at least in my area. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Monday morning tests results Light is an Aqua Glo 24" 20W T8 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm PH is 7.4 water is still a bit cloudy temp is 70 i did a 30% PWC and the tests are Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm PH is 7.4 temp is 69 i am off to rehome the 2 plecos i want to get the phosphates re-tested while i am there, see if the levels have come down with the PWC Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34708	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Deb, While you may (should) do a PWC at noon to help keep your ammonia and nitrite down, DO NOT remove any more salt. You should not have removed this much. If, as it does appear, hemorragic septicemia is starting to set in (as would be the reason for the red streaking in the fins), salt should not be reduced at this time. Septicemia should not be dismissed as lighly as being stress, but is usually the result of the presence of nitrogenous waste (ammonia and nitrite) such as you have, as \\Steve// pointed out. While your ammonia and nitrite has remained around 0.25 ppm for some time now, it should be known that besides a higher pH rendering these compounds more toxic (and lessor so, the temperature) the duration of these compounds in the environment has a direct affect how toxic this is to fish. Salt will negate these toxic effects. In my message to you yesterday, I indicated for you not to drop the salt content any lower than what you had it at that time -- 1.73 tsp/G. I know you didn't get that, but that's a long story which I'll follow up with, but I'm sending you this first, before you make your PWC. BTW, in addition to possible internal bacteria infections causing septicemia (red streaking), it can also be caused by an internal viral infection -- but the initial cause is usually nitrogenous waste. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I've never treated with Maracyn Two. I've used Malachite Green, Fungus Clear, and salt. The ammonia and nitrite seem to stay at about .25ppm no matter what I do. They went for 4 days between PWCs with the Fungus Clear and the ammonia still didn't get much over .25ppm, but the nitrate level went up some. I'll be doing a Tank reading this morning, so I'll post those results. The next PWC is at noon. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:59 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > The red streaks can be from several issues. Stress (we know they've had > that), ammonia poisoning (we know they've had to deal with that a little), > internal bacterial issues resulting in Hemorrhagic Septicemia but the > Maracyn Two treatment should have beat this back so lets hope that it's just > the stress and ammonia that is causing the red streaks. > > How has your cycling been coming along? Is the ammonia and nitrite down to > 0.0ppm yet? Give us the numbers... so test before doing your next PWC so we > can see how they are doing. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) > > - 3G PWC @ noon > - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) > - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and foraging today > - there must have still been some osmotic issues in addition to the pour > appetite from the parasites, or else she finally decided to sample the pea > meat. > - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the ends. Could > this be from reducing the salt or is it something I should worry about? > - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time I do > something that requires getting the fish out of the way. > "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" > > Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a night > person, too, so it works out, I guess. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to feed them > right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian conditioning to > start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous owner. If > it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after lights out > and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the external > environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out so things > look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in what's > going on in the room. > > A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the fish > can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. For > example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than inside, the > glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very well. If > you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much better. I'm > not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly against the > glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank at an > angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the tank when > the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look from > the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through them > rather than get the mirror effect. > > I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our public > aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank but I > also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when I'm in the > room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they can see > even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are on, > compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) > > - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I > figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the > fungus) > - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch > > Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, > after I turn off the lamp at night. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask > them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. > There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer > sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I > doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that > most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was > just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes > tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever > happened to fall nearby. > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said > it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure > the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the > Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt > to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to > get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I > CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will > slowly reduce the salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help > until Monday? > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be > seen. > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about > that. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from > the beginning? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I > can treat with the PraziPro. > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't > really 20G in the tank right now. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/> > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at > the time. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > osmoregulatory issues. > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping > motion? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's > PWC) > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will > act in the manner you're describing. > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>,"Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > (depending on lighting) > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from > the Tetra flakes? > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure > how much more CB can take. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles > Fungus Clear added): > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a > bit. > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC 11pm > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity--- -- > ---------------- > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > column, it > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > bladders, as > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > would > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > being a > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > bacterial. > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > Hexamita, > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > and > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > they > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > they > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > infections > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > impossible > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > microscope). > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > clearing up > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > medications > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > Since > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > the > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > fungus > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > (unless you > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > shipped > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > another 4 > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > should > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > normal > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > an > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > remove it. > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > treatment > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > in > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > the > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > find > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > contact > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > (treats > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > $32.74 > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > effective as > > of 12/10/08. > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > mention for > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > a > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > can use > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > pond > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > priced > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > that's > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > One > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > Tabs) or > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > Both > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > for > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > little > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > also > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > source > > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > Jungles > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > bottom > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > choice, > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > too > > much. > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > some is > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > see > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > food > > to Omega One pellets) > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > not > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > has > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > most > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > shiny, > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > probably > > a sign of healing? > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > is set > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > scraped > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > concerned > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > related > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > instructions > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > a 25% > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > put the > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > before we > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > sales. > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > stripped > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > slate- > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > what I'd > > do without you guys. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > as > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > discouraging. > > If, by > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > surface > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > glass > > in > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > at the > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > not > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > by the > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > bouyed > > up at > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > bladders > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > choice > > rather > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > possible > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > on > > their > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > and > > is > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > being > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > written > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > and > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > something > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > temperature? > > Are > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > apparent? > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > you > > have > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > extent as > > to > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > may > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > the > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > up to > > 55 > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > them. > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > as > > again > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > support) > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > bond/seal > > between > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > yet > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > and > > Lenny > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > joints, > > you > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > choice) > > in re- > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > environment > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > reptile > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > to be > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > fish > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > elevated > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > all > > the medical > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > in > > the hospital > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > to be > > absorbed > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > out > > by their > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > which > > is > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > at the > > surface, > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > return. The > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > All > > the agitation > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > there > > is more gas > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > waves. > > The up/down > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > of a > > tank > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > since they > > do not > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > I > > guess if it was > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > removing all the > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > a > > price. I've > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > that > > used to have > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > year. > > Tell them > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > to > > about $25.00. > > > ;-) > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > that > > shouldn't > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > plastic > > of the same > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > sure > > the front > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > someone > > removed that > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > where > > the glass had > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > over 400 > > pounds of > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > let me > > know. I > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > Fungus > > Clear. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > Jungle > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > bottom. > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > (do > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > CB > > also > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > there. > > And > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > up > > every > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > problem > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > wouldn't they > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > the > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > Craigslist > > for > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > resealing, > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > out > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > the > > plastic > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > accept a > > fish > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > I see > > that > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > this > > tank > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > see > > how I > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > boxes to > > see > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > only 18G > > of > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > more > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > returned 3G > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > 3G, but > > only > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > removing > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > of > > water > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > nitrite > > levels > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > than". > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > kit a > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > anywhere. > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > dragging. > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > Clear > > starts > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > there's > > only > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > bit > > won't > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > from > > his > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34709	From: bill1433	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: I Lost A Link! Help?

Somebody, somewhere here was kind enough to post a special link for me sometime back. � The link involved the use or way of looking up fish to keep by water their pH requirements first.� I�ve searched through the group achieve, and Google, and I still cannot find the link.� At first I thought is was the one for Mongabay.com but not.� Although they give the information after reading through the specie, you cannot get to the water or pH requirement directly only by fish type. � Does anyone remember or have this link and please re-post it here for me? � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34710	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

Using the old ballast sounds like a good idea but don't i need to change the power supply? Thank you Lenny --- On Mon, 12/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 11:16 AM OK. That's not a 75W bulb and it's not a CFL. It's a regular fluorescent tube. Depending on how long it is will determine the wattage and since you said you have a 40G tank (you never gave us dimensions yet), you could have a 24" or 36" long bulb so either 20W or 30W is all that you may have. Since you mention that it said "75 watts", I'm betting it says something like "compare to 75 watt incandescent bulb" which is what a 20W fluorescent tube would be compared to. If you only have a 24" light fixture under the hood and it only has room for one tube, then you will have to stick with low-light, easy to grow plants. Plantgeek.net has this profile for that plant.. if that is what you have. The long-leaf sag's can appear very similar. http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _viewer.php? id=188 You will see on that profile that it's a moderately hard plant to grow and needs medium high to high lighting and a proper substrate. Here's a snip on the Care of the plant... Care A slow growing plant that will benefit from a nutrient rich substrate. High light and good water movement is preferred. Propagation by runners. Plant can be kept in ponds during the warmer months. The LiveAquaria. com page also suggest 2 to 3 watts per gallon of fluorescent full spectrum bulbs. It's not the best plant to keep with your lighting limitations. . and possibly other tank limitations, such as substrate, etc. Without knowing the measurements of your tank or lighting fixture, it's difficult to make any definite suggestions as to what might work.... but if you only have room for a 24" long light fixture on top of your tank, then you would need dual fixtures that each hold two bulbs so you would be able to increase your lighting to 80 watts (4 x 20W) of fluorescent tubes. If you are handy, you could retrofit your current light fixture to hold two 12" CFL's (one would plug into each end of the fixture) or something like this which is on sale at DFS right now... the 24" fixture for only $56.99 http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+3733+ 9654+9871 &pcatid=9871 That fixture would give you 65 watts of CFL lighting and CFL's give out up to twice the amount of light as old style fluorescent tubes... so that single 65W CFL would be equal to six 20W fluorescent tubes. Go to this page http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _cat.php? category= 2 and look at the Very Easy and Easy plants which will do much better in low-tech, low-light tanks. Low-tech means no special substrate, no CO2 generation, low to moderate lighting. Print out them pages and send your friend back to the canal to get you better plants. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:13 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+3733+ 3810&pcat id=3810 <http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+3733+ 3810&pca tid=3810> here's the light bulb i use found it on DrsForter. The plant i have not found what type it is I been looking around for it. According to my buddy who gave me this plants they came from the local canal.. they look like this one.. http://www.liveaqua ria.com/product/ prod_display. cfm?c=768+ 1626&pcatid= 1626 <http://www.liveaqua ria.com/product/ prod_display. cfm?c=768+ 1626&pcatid= 1626> ones again you guys are the best..thanks for the help --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Which plants are melting? > > The 75W CFL should be plenty of lighting for most plants in a 40G tank. I > checked the WalMart.com site but they do not have that size CFL listed... > only a 10W CFL for 10G type incandescent hoods. > > Can you give us more info about the bulb? Manufacturer. .. G.E., Phillips, > etc.? Is it a long tube, spirally bulb, dual or quad mini-tube that plugs > in on one end, etc.? > > The reason I ask all of this is that there is a spirally bulb that > will screw into a normal incandescent light socket that advertises > that it puts > out equal to a 75W incandescent bulb but it's only 20W... > http://www.thebulb. com/store/ p-17-compact- fluorescent- cfl-75-watt- replacemen <http://www.thebulb. com/store/ p-17-compact- fluorescent- cfl-75-watt- replaceme n> > t-bulbs.aspx > > I think, with the advent of so many different types of light bulbs, lighting > systems, etc., the aquarium industry will have to, and probably should have > already moved away from using "Watts Per Gallon" as any kind of a guideline > since it really is Lumens and Color Spectrum that is something that is > easier to compare Apples to Apples where Watts are like comparing Apples to > Oranges. > > While were getting more details from you, also give us your tank dimensions > as the height of the tank plays an important role in lighting since > the light will not penetrate into deeper tanks enough to provide > adequate lighting to bottom level plants. > > Read down and try to answer the other questions asked as well. > > If you do a Google Shopping or Yahoo Shopping search for "compact > fluorescent light", you will see the many varieties of these bulbs and maybe > even find the exact type that you have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > I'm using a single cfl light bulb it says 75w on it from walmart. I'm asking > due to some of my plants are melting... > > Thank you steve > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Are you currently using CFL's? What type fluorescent bulbs are they? > Are they general spectrum or do they have a designation? Any idea of > the lumen output? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of > > > greychildren > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:54 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > > > > > hey guys > > > > > > Im sorry but i have a question on this topic...what type of lighting > > > should i have for my 40g planted tank.. im corently using a 75w > > > florecent buld..is this enouf or two much? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > As I mentioned in my reply, comparing wattage was for savings > > > > you > > > might obtain using CFLs. As I mentioned in my reply, output, in > > > lumens, a real measure of light output is much greater per watt in > > > CFLs than it is in the regular fluorescent and incandescent bulbs. > > > > > > > > Currently, there are a large number of options available for > > > lighting an aquarium. Each has their positive and negative aspects. > > > Here is a general list: > > > > > > > > 1. Incandescent lights > > > > 2. Fluorescent lights > > > > 3. Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum 4. High output > > > > (HO) and Very High Output (VHO) fluorescent lights 5. Metal > > > > Halide lights 6. Compact fluorescent lights 7. Compact > > > > Fluorescent lights > > > > with a defined spectrum 8. Light emitting diodes (LED) > > > > > > > > Most of these categories can be broken down further, can be used > > > > in > > > combination, etc., giving one an awful wide choice of lighting. > > > > > > > > Frankly, most people arrive at their current lighting scheme > > > > more > > > by happenstance than by planning. I've got to admit that I am in > > > this group. What we should be doing is looking at the type of tank > > > we are going to be keeping and choose the best lighting available > > > that will fit our purchase budget (some lighting options can be very > > > expensive to purchase and operate).Lighting for a fish only tank is, > > > and should be, very different than lighting used for a planted tank with > fish. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:06 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent > > > > > with > > > either > > > > > fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple > > > comparison, > > > > > it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in > > > > > incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL > > > > > to > > > CFL, etc. > > > > > A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W > > > incandescent. A > > > > > 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And > > > since you > > > > > brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you > > > were living on > > > > > the Sun. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. > > > > > > > > > > Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather > > > > > than > > > the amount > > > > > of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% > > > > > of > > > the energy > > > > > used is creating heat rather than light. I never really > > > > > realized > > > it but > > > > > recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out > > > > > up > > > to 10 times > > > > > more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 > > > times... when you > > > > > look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent' s are much > > > > > more > > > efficient > > > > > in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb > > > itself (just > > > > > some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more > > > efficient than > > > > > the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE > > > efficient than > > > > > all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite > > > > > high > > > when I was > > > > > looking at them online recently. > > > > > > > > > > For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with > > > two 40W > > > > > tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy > > > anyhow and the > > > > > fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics > > > > > when > > > they look > > > > > up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money > > > (not likely > > > > > since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the > > > grave yet and I > > > > > don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely > > > > > go > > > with one of > > > > > the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so > > > > > that > > > the light > > > > > will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the > > > > > evening, > > > until off, > > > > > more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will > > > come on so > > > > > you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and > > > energy > > > > > efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already > > > available as > > > > > add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or > > > wants to use > > > > > the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the > > > environmental > > > > > impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there > > > > > any > > > hazardous > > > > > substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, > > > > > to > > > save on > > > > > electrical costs, are the LED lights. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to > > > light tanks. > > > > > They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide > > > > > many > > > more lumens > > > > > per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a > > > planted > > > > > aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have > > > basically a > > > > > fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard > > > fluorescent bulb. AS > > > > > the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less > > > expensive, that is > > > > > not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though > > > > > the > > > gap is > > > > > closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked > > > into it, do > > > > > your own research--they still need replacement prior to > > > > > burning > > > out, as do > > > > > standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely > > > > > you > > > will > > > > > replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save > > > > > a > > > total of 1 > > > > > watt with three and 14 watts with 2. > > > > > > > > > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different > > > type of > > > > > light, and should not be under consideration. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34711	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: my catfish

is a Corydoras aeneus it is the bronze one Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34712	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Monday morning tests results

What about nitrate? Do you have that test? that was the test i had done at the pet store it is 0 ppm the phosphates are down from 5 to 2.5 the 2 plecos are now at the LPS and in MUCH bigger tanks, they are also in separate tanks the oranda seem happier now that the plecos are no longer in the tank i was wondering about getting one or two Otocinclus if the algae ever becomes a problem in the tank. the girl at the store said they stay small ..... do they really stay small ? are they compatible with the corydoras aenues and orandas ? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34713	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: I Lost A Link! Help?

Hi Bill, That was me... the king of links. ;-) I never did do much research on that site to see how good their database was but here's the link. After you put in your water parameters, let us know which fish they recommend. http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies The website has a URL with Aquaria.info but their header refers to FishGeeks. I never really dealt with this website before coming across their database search engine.... but it seems like a pretty comprehensive website. In the advanced search section, fill out all of the parameters that are known... temperature, pH, General Hardness and since your tank is still considered on the small size and I know you like lots of fish, stick with fish that stay under 3" and Peaceful. This should work as long as the database was properly built. But with computing, GIGO can result in bad information (GIGO = Garbage In, Garbage Out). Hopefully, they used Mongabay profiles or other reliable profiles, like Fishbase.org or the Baensch Aquarium Atlas series that \\Steve// and others recommend, for building their database. I just did a test search using 3" as maximum size, a pH of 6, temperature of 78 and 1 dH of Hardness and put Peaceful as the temperament of the fish. I left all of the other fields as "All". It came up with two pages of fish species and you can right-click on the individual species links right from those pages to open the profiles in a new tab or page so you don't have to close your search pages. Compare a few of their profile sheets to Mongabay's and if they are pretty much right on, then let us know. The first species in my sample search, Apistogramma gossei, did not have a profile on Mongabay (but I didn't search hard for it) but Fishbase.org has a profile with slightly different info but the FishGeeks profile info was pretty close. http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?file=speciesdetails&id=120&op=modload&na me=database http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=46627 The next fish, Apistogramma macmasteri, also did not have a profile on Mongabay but below are the FishGeek and FishBase profiles. http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?file=speciesdetails&id=123&op=modload&na me=database http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=46660 The profiles are different as far as the exact details for fish length, so FishGeeks isn't getting their info from Fishbase but they seem close enough to not be a problem. FishGeeks doesn't say where they got the data for their database but if it was from a reliable source, then it should be OK. Their Goldfish profile left much to be desired since they had the goldfish all classified under the same species.. which is technically accurate but fancy goldfish have much different parameters than their common brethren. FishGeeks have them all listed with 20" max size and 20 year lifespan but the fancy goldfish do not typically make it to those numbers where the long-bodied goldfish could exceed those numbers. At least they had minimum tank size as 100G... which is a helluva lot better than the 10G figures I see on so many goldfish profiles and care sheets. They also have this disclaimer... "Temperature, lifespan, space requirements, etc. all depend to a large degree on which of the 170+ recognized varieties you are dealing with. Come to the goldfish forum for answers to more specific questions." http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?file=speciesdetails&id=246&op=modload&na me=database Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:37 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] I Lost A Link! Help? Somebody, somewhere here was kind enough to post a special link for me sometime back.   The link involved the use or way of looking up fish to keep by water their pH requirements first.  I¢ve searched through the group achieve, and Google, and I still cannot find the link.  At first I thought is was the one for Mongabay.com but not.  Although they give the information after reading through the specie, you cannot get to the water or pH requirement directly only by fish type.   Does anyone remember or have this link and please re-post it here for me?   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Turning On The Light?

I really haven't done much research on this but I've seen DIY articles on it. Here's a place that seems to specialize in the conversion and DIY kits. http://www.ahsupply.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 11:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? Using the old ballast sounds like a good idea but don't i need to change the power supply? Thank you Lenny --- On Mon, 12/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 11:16 AM OK. That's not a 75W bulb and it's not a CFL. It's a regular fluorescent tube. Depending on how long it is will determine the wattage and since you said you have a 40G tank (you never gave us dimensions yet), you could have a 24" or 36" long bulb so either 20W or 30W is all that you may have. Since you mention that it said "75 watts", I'm betting it says something like "compare to 75 watt incandescent bulb" which is what a 20W fluorescent tube would be compared to. If you only have a 24" light fixture under the hood and it only has room for one tube, then you will have to stick with low-light, easy to grow plants. Plantgeek.net has this profile for that plant.. if that is what you have. The long-leaf sag's can appear very similar. http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _viewer.php? id=188 You will see on that profile that it's a moderately hard plant to grow and needs medium high to high lighting and a proper substrate. Here's a snip on the Care of the plant... Care A slow growing plant that will benefit from a nutrient rich substrate. High light and good water movement is preferred. Propagation by runners. Plant can be kept in ponds during the warmer months. The LiveAquaria. com page also suggest 2 to 3 watts per gallon of fluorescent full spectrum bulbs. It's not the best plant to keep with your lighting limitations. . and possibly other tank limitations, such as substrate, etc. Without knowing the measurements of your tank or lighting fixture, it's difficult to make any definite suggestions as to what might work.... but if you only have room for a 24" long light fixture on top of your tank, then you would need dual fixtures that each hold two bulbs so you would be able to increase your lighting to 80 watts (4 x 20W) of fluorescent tubes. If you are handy, you could retrofit your current light fixture to hold two 12" CFL's (one would plug into each end of the fixture) or something like this which is on sale at DFS right now... the 24" fixture for only $56.99 http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+3733+ 9654+9871 &pcatid=9871 That fixture would give you 65 watts of CFL lighting and CFL's give out up to twice the amount of light as old style fluorescent tubes... so that single 65W CFL would be equal to six 20W fluorescent tubes. Go to this page http://www.plantgee k.net/plantguide _cat.php? category= 2 and look at the Very Easy and Easy plants which will do much better in low-tech, low-light tanks. Low-tech means no special substrate, no CO2 generation, low to moderate lighting. Print out them pages and send your friend back to the canal to get you better plants. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:13 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+3733+ 3810&pcat id=3810 <http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+3733+ 3810&pca tid=3810> here's the light bulb i use found it on DrsForter. The plant i have not found what type it is I been looking around for it. According to my buddy who gave me this plants they came from the local canal.. they look like this one.. http://www.liveaqua ria.com/product/ prod_display. cfm?c=768+ 1626&pcatid= 1626 <http://www.liveaqua ria.com/product/ prod_display. cfm?c=768+ 1626&pcatid= 1626> ones again you guys are the best..thanks for the help --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Which plants are melting? > > The 75W CFL should be plenty of lighting for most plants in a 40G tank. I > checked the WalMart.com site but they do not have that size CFL listed... > only a 10W CFL for 10G type incandescent hoods. > > Can you give us more info about the bulb? Manufacturer. .. G.E., Phillips, > etc.? Is it a long tube, spirally bulb, dual or quad mini-tube that plugs > in on one end, etc.? > > The reason I ask all of this is that there is a spirally bulb that > will screw into a normal incandescent light socket that advertises > that it puts > out equal to a 75W incandescent bulb but it's only 20W... > http://www.thebulb. com/store/ p-17-compact- fluorescent- cfl-75-watt- replacemen <http://www.thebulb. com/store/ p-17-compact- fluorescent- cfl-75-watt- replaceme n> > t-bulbs.aspx > > I think, with the advent of so many different types of light bulbs, lighting > systems, etc., the aquarium industry will have to, and probably should have > already moved away from using "Watts Per Gallon" as any kind of a guideline > since it really is Lumens and Color Spectrum that is something that is > easier to compare Apples to Apples where Watts are like comparing Apples to > Oranges. > > While were getting more details from you, also give us your tank dimensions > as the height of the tank plays an important role in lighting since > the light will not penetrate into deeper tanks enough to provide > adequate lighting to bottom level plants. > > Read down and try to answer the other questions asked as well. > > If you do a Google Shopping or Yahoo Shopping search for "compact > fluorescent light", you will see the many varieties of these bulbs and maybe > even find the exact type that you have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > I'm using a single cfl light bulb it says 75w on it from walmart. I'm asking > due to some of my plants are melting... > > Thank you steve > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Are you currently using CFL's? What type fluorescent bulbs are they? > Are they general spectrum or do they have a designation? Any idea of > the lumen output? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] > On Behalf Of > > > greychildren > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:54 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Turning On The Light? > > > > > > hey guys > > > > > > Im sorry but i have a question on this topic...what type of lighting > > > should i have for my 40g planted tank.. im corently using a 75w > > > florecent buld..is this enouf or two much? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > As I mentioned in my reply, comparing wattage was for savings > > > > you > > > might obtain using CFLs. As I mentioned in my reply, output, in > > > lumens, a real measure of light output is much greater per watt in > > > CFLs than it is in the regular fluorescent and incandescent bulbs. > > > > > > > > Currently, there are a large number of options available for > > > lighting an aquarium. Each has their positive and negative aspects. > > > Here is a general list: > > > > > > > > 1. Incandescent lights > > > > 2. Fluorescent lights > > > > 3. Fluorescent lights with a defined spectrum 4. High output > > > > (HO) and Very High Output (VHO) fluorescent lights 5. Metal > > > > Halide lights 6. Compact fluorescent lights 7. Compact > > > > Fluorescent lights > > > > with a defined spectrum 8. Light emitting diodes (LED) > > > > > > > > Most of these categories can be broken down further, can be used > > > > in > > > combination, etc., giving one an awful wide choice of lighting. > > > > > > > > Frankly, most people arrive at their current lighting scheme > > > > more > > > by happenstance than by planning. I've got to admit that I am in > > > this group. What we should be doing is looking at the type of tank > > > we are going to be keeping and choose the best lighting available > > > that will fit our purchase budget (some lighting options can be very > > > expensive to purchase and operate).Lighting for a fish only tank is, > > > and should be, very different than lighting used for a planted tank with > fish. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:06 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure you would need to replace 40W's of incandescent > > > > > with > > > either > > > > > fluorescent or CFL lighting. While we use wattage as a simple > > > comparison, > > > > > it's really only viable when comparing apples to apples... as in > > > > > incandescent to incandescent, fluorescent to fluorescent, CFL > > > > > to > > > CFL, etc. > > > > > A 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light than a 40W > > > incandescent. A > > > > > 40W CFL puts out a lot more light than a 40W fluorescent. And > > > since you > > > > > brought up LED's.. 40 watts of LED lighting would be like you > > > were living on > > > > > the Sun. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > I know you already know this but wanted to clarify it for others. > > > > > > > > > > Wattage is actually the amount of energy being used rather > > > > > than > > > the amount > > > > > of light (lumens) being created. With incandescent bulbs, 90% > > > > > of > > > the energy > > > > > used is creating heat rather than light. I never really > > > > > realized > > > it but > > > > > recently read that a 100W incandescent bulb actually puts out > > > > > up > > > to 10 times > > > > > more light than a 40W incandescent bulb.. rather than 2.5 > > > times... when you > > > > > look at the lumens created by both. Fluorescent' s are much > > > > > more > > > efficient > > > > > in creating light (lumens) and put out no heat from the bulb > > > itself (just > > > > > some from the ballast). Power compacts and CFL's are more > > > efficient than > > > > > the long fluorescent tubes. And then the LED's are WAY MORE > > > efficient than > > > > > all of the above... but the prices on LED fixtures are quite > > > > > high > > > when I was > > > > > looking at them online recently. > > > > > > > > > > For now, I'll stick with my $20.00, 4' shop light fixture with > > > two 40W > > > > > tubes, over my 4' tank. After all, it's hidden by the canopy > > > anyhow and the > > > > > fish and plants have never complained about the aesthetics > > > > > when > > > they look > > > > > up... but if I ever win the lottery or inherit a lot of money > > > (not likely > > > > > since I don't have any rich relatives who have a foot in the > > > grave yet and I > > > > > don't buy lottery tickets.. but if I ever do...), I'll likely > > > > > go > > > with one of > > > > > the sophisticated LED systems where the timers can be set so > > > > > that > > > the light > > > > > will slowly come on in the morning and slowly dim in the > > > > > evening, > > > until off, > > > > > more closely imitating nature. Then the "moonlight" LED's will > > > come on so > > > > > you can still see what's going on in the tank... all timed and > > > energy > > > > > efficient. Of course, low cost moonlighting LED's are already > > > available as > > > > > add-ons to current lighting if someone likes that effect... or > > > wants to use > > > > > the tank as a night light. Of course, we don't know what the > > > environmental > > > > > impact will be from the thousands of LED lights... are there > > > > > any > > > hazardous > > > > > substances in them like mercury in the CFL's? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > > > > com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> ] On > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:36 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Turning On The Light? > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > The compact fluorescents are old news. What you really need, > > > > > to > > > save on > > > > > electrical costs, are the LED lights. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, compact fluorescents (or CFLs) can be a good way to > > > light tanks. > > > > > They come in many flavors, and have the ability to provide > > > > > many > > > more lumens > > > > > per watt than standard fluorescents. If you are considering a > > > planted > > > > > aquarium, you probably should consider the CFLs. If you have > > > basically a > > > > > fish only tank, save some money and go with a standard > > > fluorescent bulb. AS > > > > > the conversation you heard claiming that CFLs were less > > > expensive, that is > > > > > not really true. They are more expensive to purchase, though > > > > > the > > > gap is > > > > > closing, or has closed--it has been a bit since I last looked > > > into it, do > > > > > your own research--they still need replacement prior to > > > > > burning > > > out, as do > > > > > standard bulbs. There is a savings in electricity, but likely > > > > > you > > > will > > > > > replace 1 40 watt bulb with 2 or 3 CFLs. At 13 watts, you save > > > > > a > > > total of 1 > > > > > watt with three and 14 watts with 2. > > > > > > > > > > Incandescent bulbs are a completely different story, different > > > type of > > > > > light, and should not be under consideration. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: my catfish

http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras_aeneus.html http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/aeneus.html Read over the above profiles. These are tropical fish and will not do well at the sub-tropical temps that goldfish prefer.. but if you had a large enough tank and heated it to around 75F, it "could" work but I wouldn't recommend it. Cory's are also shoaling fish which means they prefer to be with groups of their own species so you would need at least three and many say five or more for them to be happy. It would be best if you rehome him also. Or if you get a 55G or larger for your two goldfish, then you could keep the 29G for tropical fish and fill out the shoal on these and add some mid to top swimmers to fill out the 29G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 11:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] my catfish is a Corydoras aeneus it is the bronze one Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34716	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos

or if you live close enough to the States and Canada doesn't allow importing of these products, then maybe you could become an unofficial smuggler of Dr. Tim's One And Only product line for you local store. ;-) It sounds like you could make a hefty profit considering the exchange rates i am only one hour from Plattsburg......... will have to check out the LFS and walmarts over there looks like i might be getting into the smuggling business :)) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34717	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Monday morning tests results

Like any other Genus, there are many species of Otocinclus (Midget Catfish). The smallest of them only grows to around 1" to 1.5" so there could be issues with the goldfish wanting to eat them unless you are able to purchase adult Oto's. Oto's also prefer to be in groups so the bioload of five or six Oto's would be comparable to a single Clown Pleco, which is fine by itself. Oto's are also kind of delicate. I have a Clown Pleco in my 65G goldfish tank with my two fancy goldfish. He should only grow to around 4" to 5" so he'll never become a monster to my goldfish... and he's an algae eating and pooping machine right now and he's only about 2". You can watch them sucking algae off of the glass, plant pots, driftwood, etc. and little strings of poop are simultaneously dropping out. I keep my goldfish tank heated to 75F since the pleco does well at that temp as well. If you get a 2nd 29G and join the two tanks together with a tank bridge, then you could add a school of Zebra Danio's or White Cloud Mountain Minnows or some other cool-water small bodied fish... even guppies (as long as you don't try to save many of the fry). This would give you more activity.. if that is what you are looking for without increasing the bioload much and then you could keep the tank in the low 70's room temperature range without having to buy and run a heater. If you definitely want an algae eater, then you would have to have a heater to at least keep the tank from getting too cool and keep it in the mid-70's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 11:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Monday morning tests results What about nitrate? Do you have that test? that was the test i had done at the pet store it is 0 ppm the phosphates are down from 5 to 2.5 the 2 plecos are now at the LPS and in MUCH bigger tanks, they are also in separate tanks the oranda seem happier now that the plecos are no longer in the tank i was wondering about getting one or two Otocinclus if the algae ever becomes a problem in the tank. the girl at the store said they stay small ..... do they really stay small ? are they compatible with the corydoras aenues and orandas ? Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos

You would have to order the API test kits and other stuff to come into the U.S. Walmart and then pick them up... or if you know someone in that area, they could be your liaison. Whew... now we're talking a smuggling conspiracy. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 11:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]was sunday test results now rehoming plecos or if you live close enough to the States and Canada doesn't allow importing of these products, then maybe you could become an unofficial smuggler of Dr. Tim's One And Only product line for you local store. ;-) It sounds like you could make a hefty profit considering the exchange rates i am only one hour from Plattsburg......... will have to check out the LFS and walmarts over there looks like i might be getting into the smuggling business :)) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34719	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was Monday morning tests results now heaters

then you could keep the tank in the low 70's room temperature range without having to buy and run a heater. If you definitely want an algae eater, then you would have to have a heater to at least keep the tank from getting too cool and keep it in the mid-70's. i do have a heater for the tank but don't use it since the tank is usually 70-72 and the catfish doesn't seem to mind the temperature and since the plecos have left he (she) is much more active :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34720	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on doing a follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want to address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, which I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of your more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around noon on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly (I don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote you a long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 seconds away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here was pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame my lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), but I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts to feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct any constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of the problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem here. It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). On the salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content was at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon that day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended on holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on any PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that day). Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing when your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you REPLACED 1 tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided not to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a 2 tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another PWC since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less than that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing the salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out any more salt than this. For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely mild and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope all fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post of mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as it contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which might get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said the salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day of clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the PraziPro. The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least nothing near as good that would help with their type of internal parasite issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay to start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will have to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and nitrite (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these levels remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these nitrogenous wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to your fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, you can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these levels down. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will > slowly reduce the salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help > until Monday? > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be > seen. > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about > that. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from > the beginning? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I > can treat with the PraziPro. > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't > really 20G in the tank right now. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/> > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at > the time. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > osmoregulatory issues. > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping > motion? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's > PWC) > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will > act in the manner you're describing. > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > (depending on lighting) > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from > the Tetra flakes? > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure > how much more CB can take. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles > Fungus Clear added): > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a > bit. > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC 11pm > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity--- -- > ---------------- > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > column, it > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > bladders, as > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > would > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > being a > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > bacterial. > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > Hexamita, > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > and > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > they > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > they > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > infections > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > impossible > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > microscope). > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > clearing up > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > medications > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > Since > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > the > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > fungus > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > (unless you > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > shipped > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > another 4 > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > should > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > normal > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > an > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > remove it. > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > treatment > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > in > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > the > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > find > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > contact > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > (treats > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > $32.74 > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > effective as > > of 12/10/08. > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > mention for > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > a > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > can use > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > pond > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > priced > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > that's > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > One > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > Tabs) or > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > Both > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > for > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > little > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > also > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > source > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > Jungles > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > bottom > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > choice, > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > too > > much. > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > some is > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > see > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > food > > to Omega One pellets) > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > not > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > has > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > most > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > shiny, > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > probably > > a sign of healing? > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > is set > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > scraped > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > concerned > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > related > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > instructions > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > a 25% > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > put the > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > before we > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > sales. > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > stripped > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > slate- > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > what I'd > > do without you guys. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > as > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > discouraging. > > If, by > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > surface > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > glass > > in > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > at the > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > not > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > by the > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > bouyed > > up at > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > bladders > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > choice > > rather > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > possible > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > on > > their > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > and > > is > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > being > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > written > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > and > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > something > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > temperature? > > Are > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > apparent? > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > you > > have > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > extent as > > to > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > may > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > the > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > up to > > 55 > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > them. > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > as > > again > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > support) > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > bond/seal > > between > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > yet > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > and > > Lenny > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > joints, > > you > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > choice) > > in re- > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > environment > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > reptile > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > to be > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > fish > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > elevated > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > all > > the medical > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > in > > the hospital > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > to be > > absorbed > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > out > > by their > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > which > > is > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > at the > > surface, > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > return. The > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > All > > the agitation > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > there > > is more gas > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > waves. > > The up/down > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > of a > > tank > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > since they > > do not > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > I > > guess if it was > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > removing all the > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > a > > price. I've > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > that > > used to have > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > year. > > Tell them > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > to > > about $25.00. > > > ;-) > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > that > > shouldn't > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > plastic > > of the same > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > sure > > the front > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > someone > > removed that > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > where > > the glass had > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > over 400 > > pounds of > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > let me > > know. I > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > Fungus > > Clear. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > Jungle > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > bottom. > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > (do > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > CB > > also > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > there. > > And > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > up > > every > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > problem > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > wouldn't they > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > the > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > Craigslist > > for > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > resealing, > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > out > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > the > > plastic > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > accept a > > fish > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > I see > > that > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > this > > tank > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > see > > how I > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > boxes to > > see > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > only 18G > > of > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > more > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > returned 3G > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > 3G, but > > only > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > removing > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > of > > water > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > nitrite > > levels > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > than". > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > kit a > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > anywhere. > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > dragging. > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > Clear > > starts > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > there's > > only > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > bit > > won't > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > from > > his > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this > subject, I > > find > > > the > > > > need to question your present salt content and your > methods > > > with > > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these > levels -- > > only > > > if to > > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to > see > > > that "Carol > > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has > improved > > > even > > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to > be > > quite > > > as well > > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will > not > > see > > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > > recuperating. > > > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it > was at > > 3.7 > > > tsp > > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > > changes > > > since. > > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would > have > > > reduced > > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > > gallon. > > > If > > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, > this > > would > > > now > > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% > PWC's > > > since last > > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm > now > > > wondering if > > > > even that level was correct in your method of > figuring. > > Maybe > > > you > > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would > seem that > > > your > > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > > especially > > > with > > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning > these > > results > > > as > > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips > (which > > can > > > often > > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether > the > > > reagents may > > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > > Jungles' > > > Fungus > > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit > still > > not > > > as > > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately > 3.4tsp/G > > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs > since > > > yesterday's > > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: > <.25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue > what it > > is. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that > part and > > > missed it > > > > in > > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your > source > > > water is > > > > not > > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that > is not > > as > > > > injurious > > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. > While > > we > > > strive > > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as > we > > can), > > > there is > > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most > fish as > > > that's > > > > still > > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm > shows > > your > > > tank > > > > is > > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or > more > > > frequent > > > > PWC's > > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > > straightened out > > > > you > > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at > least > > ones > > > that the > > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind > adding some > > to > > > their > > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part > of > > their > > > food, > > > > and > > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as > part > > of > > > their > > > > diet > > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- > term if > > you > > > add > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > > medications > > > to > > > > water > > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest > changing > > out > > > enough > > > > water > > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per > gallon. > > > You're not > > > > too > > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may > not > > make > > > that > > > > much > > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful > minimum > > of 3 > > > tsp > > > > per > > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > > tolerable > > > > range. > > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of > salt, > > > even > > > > though > > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended > for them > > on > > > some > > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish > is > > > approaching, > > > > if > > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt > levels. > > > Cyprinidae > > > > are > > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > > toleration -- > > > they > > > > can > > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add > medications > > > while > > > > there > > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as > some > > > medications > > > > (and > > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) > contain > > salt as > > > part > > > > of > > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you > may > > add > > > > additional > > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- > checking this > > > factor > > > > will > > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level > during > > > > treatments. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the > zeros were > > > baseline > > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank > seems to > > be > > > cycling > > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as > that > > likes > > > to > > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I > also > > asked > > > my dd > > > > and > > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my > memory > > that > > > was > > > > off. > > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and > lowering the > > > saline > > > > with > > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > > 3.7tsp/G > > > in the > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before > using > > one > > > of > > > > the > > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting > more > > > normal > > > > today, > > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank > at the > > > moment. I > > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding > further > > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a > fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' > plight > > now > > > for a > > > > > number of > > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment > would > > > eliminate this > > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and > undoubtedly > > did > > > to > > > > some > > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these > fish's > > health > > > in > > > > their > > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to > go in > > > reverse, > > > > it > > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, > at > > least > > > to me > > > > > (unless > > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > > capacity > > > at 20 > > > > > gallons > > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd > has > > come up > > > with > > > > 30 > > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, > perhaps > > > you'd > > > > like to > > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are > so > > that > > > we can > > > > get > > > > > a > > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time > you > > had 90 > > > tsp > > > > of > > > > > salt > > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, > that > > would > > > equate > > > > to 4 > > > > > 1/2 > > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than > 0.3% > > of > > > salt in > > > > > their > > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to > 2.4 tsp > > per > > > > gallon > > > > > (not 3 > > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can > tolerate > > more > > > I > > > > felt it > > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the > time > > (note: > > > this > > > > > measure > > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all > fish do > > have > > > their > > > > > limits > > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and > some > > > Cichlids > > > > > seeming to > > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish > (Cory's, > > etc.) > > > > having > > > > > the > > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish > included) > > being > > > > somewhere in > > > > > the > > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > > establish > > > just > > > > what > > > > > your > > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, > it > > could > > > act > > > > > adversely > > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing > further > > > advancement of > > > > the > > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level > of sale > > > affecting > > > > > your > > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live > plants. I > > know > > > this > > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for > the > > benefit > > > of > > > > other > > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the > tank > > is > > > done > > > > > gradually > > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most > aquatic > > plants > > > will > > > > > tolerate > > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; > Cabomba, > > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > > readings > > > of > > > > several > > > > > days > > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to > 0.5 ppm > > and > > > both > > > > your > > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm > (indicating > > your > > > cycle > > > > > suddenly > > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the > next > > day > > > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm > and > > your > > > > nitrate > > > > > was > > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to > 0.25 > > ppm). > > > A > > > > > discrepency > > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of > erroneous > > test > > > result > > > > (or > > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing > the > > issue, > > > I'd > > > > suggest > > > > > you > > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest > this > > > disease. > > > > > Those > > > > > > medications would include any of the > following: > > > A.P.I.'s > > > > Furan > > > > > II, > > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's > Fungus > > Clear > > > Tank > > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and > Furadolazone as > > their > > > main > > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the > Rid- > > > Ich/Malachite > > > > > Green > > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, > but not > > > all, > > > > Fungal > > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is > acting > > > somewhat > > > > weak > > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming > with > > Lucille > > > and > > > > > generally > > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > > watching > > > the > > > > what we > > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > > hasn't > > > improved > > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one > side > > and > > > seems > > > > to be > > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas > at the > > > base of > > > > her > > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of > them, > > > because CB > > > > seems > > > > > a > > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra > food > > they're > > > > getting I > > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so > save > > your > > > money > > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > bigger > > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > > lowering > > > the > > > > water a > > > > > > little (or > > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water > fall > > to > > > create > > > > > enough > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > > exchange. > > > That > > > > and > > > > > live > > > > > > plants are > > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up > and the > > CO2 > > > levels > > > > > down. > > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > > Hopefully > > > Raven > > > > will > > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on > > the > > > right > > > > side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's > reading, and > > I > > > didn't > > > > do a > > > > > PWC > > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered > the > > water > > > level > > > > so > > > > > I > > > > > > can see > > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to > the > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future > water > > > changes. I'll > > > > > look > > > > > > into an > > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > > budget > > > right > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34721	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing it) Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the PWC. The salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it yesterday just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting on the bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is the stronger and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get worse, I'll leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite lower. Will the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower this?); Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline hadn't been zero, I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 - 3G PWC @ 1pm DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Deb, While you may (should) do a PWC at noon to help keep your ammonia and nitrite down, DO NOT remove any more salt. You should not have removed this much. If, as it does appear, hemorragic septicemia is starting to set in (as would be the reason for the red streaking in the fins), salt should not be reduced at this time. Septicemia should not be dismissed as lighly as being stress, but is usually the result of the presence of nitrogenous waste (ammonia and nitrite) such as you have, as \\Steve// pointed out. While your ammonia and nitrite has remained around 0.25 ppm for some time now, it should be known that besides a higher pH rendering these compounds more toxic (and lessor so, the temperature) the duration of these compounds in the environment has a direct affect how toxic this is to fish. Salt will negate these toxic effects. In my message to you yesterday, I indicated for you not to drop the salt content any lower than what you had it at that time -- 1.73 tsp/G. I know you didn't get that, but that's a long story which I'll follow up with, but I'm sending you this first, before you make your PWC. BTW, in addition to possible internal bacteria infections causing septicemia (red streaking), it can also be caused by an internal viral infection -- but the initial cause is usually nitrogenous waste. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I've never treated with Maracyn Two. I've used Malachite Green, Fungus Clear, and salt. The ammonia and nitrite seem to stay at about .25ppm no matter what I do. They went for 4 days between PWCs with the Fungus Clear and the ammonia still didn't get much over .25ppm, but the nitrate level went up some. I'll be doing a Tank reading this morning, so I'll post those results. The next PWC is at noon. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:59 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > The red streaks can be from several issues. Stress (we know they've had > that), ammonia poisoning (we know they've had to deal with that a little), > internal bacterial issues resulting in Hemorrhagic Septicemia but the > Maracyn Two treatment should have beat this back so lets hope that it's just > the stress and ammonia that is causing the red streaks. > > How has your cycling been coming along? Is the ammonia and nitrite down to > 0.0ppm yet? Give us the numbers... so test before doing your next PWC so we > can see how they are doing. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) > > - 3G PWC @ noon > - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) > - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and foraging today > - there must have still been some osmotic issues in addition to the pour > appetite from the parasites, or else she finally decided to sample the pea > meat. > - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the ends. Could > this be from reducing the salt or is it something I should worry about? > - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time I do > something that requires getting the fish out of the way. > "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" > > Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a night > person, too, so it works out, I guess. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to feed them > right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian conditioning to > start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous owner. If > it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after lights out > and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the external > environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out so things > look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in what's > going on in the room. > > A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the fish > can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. For > example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than inside, the > glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very well. If > you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much better. I'm > not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly against the > glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank at an > angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the tank when > the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look from > the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through them > rather than get the mirror effect. > > I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our public > aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank but I > also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when I'm in the > room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they can see > even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are on, > compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) > > - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I > figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the > fungus) > - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch > > Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, > after I turn off the lamp at night. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask > them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. > There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer > sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I > doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that > most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was > just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes > tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever > happened to fall nearby. > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said > it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure > the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the > Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt > to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to > get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I > CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will > slowly reduce the salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help > until Monday? > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be > seen. > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about > that. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from > the beginning? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I > can treat with the PraziPro. > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't > really 20G in the tank right now. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/> > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at > the time. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > osmoregulatory issues. > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping > motion? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's > PWC) > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will > act in the manner you're describing. > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>,"Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > (depending on lighting) > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from > the Tetra flakes? > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure > how much more CB can take. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles > Fungus Clear added): > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a > bit. > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC 11pm > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity--- -- > ---------------- > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > column, it > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > bladders, as > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > would > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > being a > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > bacterial. > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > Hexamita, > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > and > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > they > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > they > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > infections > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > impossible > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > microscope). > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > clearing up > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > medications > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > Since > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > the > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > fungus > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > (unless you > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > shipped > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > another 4 > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > should > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > normal > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > an > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > remove it. > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > treatment > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > in > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > the > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > find > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > contact > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > (treats > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > $32.74 > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > effective as > > of 12/10/08. > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > mention for > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > a > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > can use > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > pond > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > priced > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > that's > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > One > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > Tabs) or > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > Both > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > for > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > little > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > also > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > source > > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > Jungles > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > bottom > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > choice, > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > too > > much. > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > some is > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > see > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > food > > to Omega One pellets) > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > not > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > has > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > most > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > shiny, > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > probably > > a sign of healing? > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > is set > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > scraped > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > concerned > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > related > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > instructions > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > a 25% > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > put the > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > before we > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > sales. > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > stripped > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > slate- > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > what I'd > > do without you guys. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > as > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > discouraging. > > If, by > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > surface > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > glass > > in > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > at the > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > not > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > by the > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > bouyed > > up at > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > bladders > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > choice > > rather > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > possible > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > on > > their > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > and > > is > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > being > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > written > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > and > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > something > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > temperature? > > Are > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > apparent? > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > you > > have > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > extent as > > to > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > may > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > the > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > up to > > 55 > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > them. > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > as > > again > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > support) > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > bond/seal > > between > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > yet > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > and > > Lenny > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > joints, > > you > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > choice) > > in re- > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > environment > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > reptile > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > to be > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > fish > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > elevated > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > all > > the medical > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > in > > the hospital > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > to be > > absorbed > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > out > > by their > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > which > > is > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > at the > > surface, > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > return. The > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > All > > the agitation > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > there > > is more gas > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > waves. > > The up/down > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > of a > > tank > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > since they > > do not > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > I > > guess if it was > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > removing all the > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > a > > price. I've > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > that > > used to have > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > year. > > Tell them > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > to > > about $25.00. > > > ;-) > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > that > > shouldn't > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > plastic > > of the same > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > sure > > the front > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > someone > > removed that > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > where > > the glass had > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > over 400 > > pounds of > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > let me > > know. I > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > Fungus > > Clear. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > Jungle > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > bottom. > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > (do > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > CB > > also > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > there. > > And > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > up > > every > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > problem > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > wouldn't they > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > the > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > Craigslist > > for > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > resealing, > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > out > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > the > > plastic > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > accept a > > fish > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > I see > > that > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > this > > tank > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > see > > how I > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > boxes to > > see > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > only 18G > > of > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > more > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > returned 3G > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > 3G, but > > only > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > removing > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > of > > water > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > nitrite > > levels > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > than". > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > kit a > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > anywhere. > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > dragging. > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > Clear > > starts > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > there's > > only > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > bit > > won't > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > from > > his > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34722	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos

Whew... now we're talking a smuggling conspiracy. LOL at the price of things up here ...... yup !! even with the exchange it is still cheaper !!!! the test kit for phosphate is 18$ and the test kit for Nitrate is 17$ ...... might as well get the master kit from wal martfor that price next time i visit my friend in the states Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34723	From: bill1433	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: I Lost A Link! Help?

Thanks Len,   I went over there right away but keep getting a "failure to load data page" up.   I'll keep trying,   Bill --- On Mon, 12/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I Lost A Link! Help? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 12:36 PM Hi Bill, That was me... the king of links. ;-) I never did do much research on that site to see how good their database was but here's the link. After you put in your water parameters, let us know which fish they recommend. http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?op=modload& name=database& file=index_ spec ies The website has a URL with Aquaria.info but their header refers to FishGeeks. I never really dealt with this website before coming across their database search engine.... but it seems like a pretty comprehensive website. In the advanced search section, fill out all of the parameters that are known... temperature, pH, General Hardness and since your tank is still considered on the small size and I know you like lots of fish, stick with fish that stay under 3" and Peaceful. This should work as long as the database was properly built. But with computing, GIGO can result in bad information (GIGO = Garbage In, Garbage Out). Hopefully, they used Mongabay profiles or other reliable profiles, like Fishbase.org or the Baensch Aquarium Atlas series that \\Steve// and others recommend, for building their database. I just did a test search using 3" as maximum size, a pH of 6, temperature of 78 and 1 dH of Hardness and put Peaceful as the temperament of the fish. I left all of the other fields as "All". It came up with two pages of fish species and you can right-click on the individual species links right from those pages to open the profiles in a new tab or page so you don't have to close your search pages. Compare a few of their profile sheets to Mongabay's and if they are pretty much right on, then let us know. The first species in my sample search, Apistogramma gossei, did not have a profile on Mongabay (but I didn't search hard for it) but Fishbase.org has a profile with slightly different info but the FishGeeks profile info was pretty close. http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?file= speciesdetails& id=120&op= modload&na me=database http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=46627 The next fish, Apistogramma macmasteri, also did not have a profile on Mongabay but below are the FishGeek and FishBase profiles. http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?file= speciesdetails& id=123&op= modload&na me=database http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=46660 The profiles are different as far as the exact details for fish length, so FishGeeks isn't getting their info from Fishbase but they seem close enough to not be a problem. FishGeeks doesn't say where they got the data for their database but if it was from a reliable source, then it should be OK. Their Goldfish profile left much to be desired since they had the goldfish all classified under the same species.. which is technically accurate but fancy goldfish have much different parameters than their common brethren. FishGeeks have them all listed with 20" max size and 20 year lifespan but the fancy goldfish do not typically make it to those numbers where the long-bodied goldfish could exceed those numbers. At least they had minimum tank size as 100G... which is a helluva lot better than the 10G figures I see on so many goldfish profiles and care sheets. They also have this disclaimer.. . "Temperature, lifespan, space requirements, etc. all depend to a large degree on which of the 170+ recognized varieties you are dealing with. Come to the goldfish forum for answers to more specific questions." http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?file= speciesdetails& id=246&op= modload&na me=database Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:37 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] I Lost A Link! Help? Somebody, somewhere here was kind enough to post a special link for me sometime back.   The link involved the use or way of looking up fish to keep by water their pH requirements first.  I¢ve searched through the group achieve, and Google, and I still cannot find the link.  At first I thought is was the one for Mongabay.com but not.  Although they give the information after reading through the specie, you cannot get to the water or pH requirement directly only by fish type.   Does anyone remember or have this link and please re-post it here for me?   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

You don't want to mess with your pH. It's perfect for goldfish and many other fish as well. No, you don't want to use zeolite at this time. As far as I can tell, your tank is on the verge of being completely cycled since your ammonia and nitrite readings are below the 0.25 range. Follow Ray's advice in his other longer post that just came through. On a side note, Ray, Gmail (for web based emailing of replies) and Outlook for computer based emailing, both have settings to auto-save drafts as you type so you don't lose your long replies in the event of a power failure or internet connection issue. It's too bad Yahoo Group's doesn't have the auto-save draft feature when typing replies on the web page... if that is where you were typing your long reply that got lost. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 1:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing it) Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the PWC. The salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it yesterday just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting on the bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is the stronger and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get worse, I'll leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite lower. Will the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower this?); Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline hadn't been zero, I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 - 3G PWC @ 1pm DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Deb, While you may (should) do a PWC at noon to help keep your ammonia and nitrite down, DO NOT remove any more salt. You should not have removed this much. If, as it does appear, hemorragic septicemia is starting to set in (as would be the reason for the red streaking in the fins), salt should not be reduced at this time. Septicemia should not be dismissed as lighly as being stress, but is usually the result of the presence of nitrogenous waste (ammonia and nitrite) such as you have, as \\Steve// pointed out. While your ammonia and nitrite has remained around 0.25 ppm for some time now, it should be known that besides a higher pH rendering these compounds more toxic (and lessor so, the temperature) the duration of these compounds in the environment has a direct affect how toxic this is to fish. Salt will negate these toxic effects. In my message to you yesterday, I indicated for you not to drop the salt content any lower than what you had it at that time -- 1.73 tsp/G. I know you didn't get that, but that's a long story which I'll follow up with, but I'm sending you this first, before you make your PWC. BTW, in addition to possible internal bacteria infections causing septicemia (red streaking), it can also be caused by an internal viral infection -- but the initial cause is usually nitrogenous waste. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I've never treated with Maracyn Two. I've used Malachite Green, Fungus Clear, and salt. The ammonia and nitrite seem to stay at about .25ppm no matter what I do. They went for 4 days between PWCs with the Fungus Clear and the ammonia still didn't get much over .25ppm, but the nitrate level went up some. I'll be doing a Tank reading this morning, so I'll post those results. The next PWC is at noon. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:59 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > The red streaks can be from several issues. Stress (we know they've had > that), ammonia poisoning (we know they've had to deal with that a little), > internal bacterial issues resulting in Hemorrhagic Septicemia but the > Maracyn Two treatment should have beat this back so lets hope that it's just > the stress and ammonia that is causing the red streaks. > > How has your cycling been coming along? Is the ammonia and nitrite down to > 0.0ppm yet? Give us the numbers... so test before doing your next PWC so we > can see how they are doing. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) > > - 3G PWC @ noon > - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) > - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and foraging today > - there must have still been some osmotic issues in addition to the pour > appetite from the parasites, or else she finally decided to sample the pea > meat. > - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the ends. Could > this be from reducing the salt or is it something I should worry about? > - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time I do > something that requires getting the fish out of the way. > "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" > > Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a night > person, too, so it works out, I guess. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to feed them > right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian conditioning to > start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous owner. If > it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after lights out > and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the external > environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out so things > look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in what's > going on in the room. > > A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the fish > can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. For > example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than inside, the > glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very well. If > you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much better. I'm > not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly against the > glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank at an > angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the tank when > the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look from > the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through them > rather than get the mirror effect. > > I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our public > aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank but I > also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when I'm in the > room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they can see > even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are on, > compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) > > - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to 1.73tsp/G. I > figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to slow the > fungus) > - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch > > Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a while, > after I turn off the lamp at night. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask > them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. > There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer > sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I > doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that > most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was > just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes > tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever > happened to fall nearby. > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said > it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure > the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the > Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt > to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to > get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I > CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will > slowly reduce the salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help > until Monday? > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be > seen. > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about > that. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from > the beginning? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I > can treat with the PraziPro. > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't > really 20G in the tank right now. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> 20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> 20Chemistry/> > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at > the time. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > osmoregulatory issues. > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping > motion? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's > PWC) > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from > flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any > kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will > act in the manner you're describing. > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>,"Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > (depending on lighting) > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see > her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from > the Tetra flakes? > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure > how much more CB can take. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles > Fungus Clear added): > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a > bit. > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC 11pm > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity--- -- > ---------------- > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing > at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > column, it > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > bladders, as > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > would > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > being a > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > bacterial. > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > Hexamita, > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > and > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > they > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > they > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > infections > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > impossible > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > microscope). > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > clearing up > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > medications > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > Since > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > the > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > fungus > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > (unless you > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > shipped > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > another 4 > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > should > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > normal > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > an > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > remove it. > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > treatment > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > in > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > the > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > find > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > contact > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > (treats > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > $32.74 > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > effective as > > of 12/10/08. > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > mention for > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > a > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > can use > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > pond > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > priced > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > that's > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > One > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > Tabs) or > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > Both > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > for > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > little > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > also > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > source > > of its cause. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > Jungles > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > bottom > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > choice, > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > too > > much. > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > some is > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > see > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > food > > to Omega One pellets) > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > not > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > has > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > most > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > shiny, > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > probably > > a sign of healing? > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > is set > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > scraped > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > concerned > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > related > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > instructions > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > a 25% > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > put the > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > before we > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > sales. > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > stripped > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > slate- > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > what I'd > > do without you guys. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > as > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > discouraging. > > If, by > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > surface > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > glass > > in > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > at the > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > not > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > by the > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > bouyed > > up at > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > bladders > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > choice > > rather > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > possible > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > on > > their > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > and > > is > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > being > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > written > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > and > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > something > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > temperature? > > Are > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > apparent? > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > you > > have > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > extent as > > to > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > may > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > the > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > up to > > 55 > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > them. > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > as > > again > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > support) > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > bond/seal > > between > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > yet > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > and > > Lenny > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > joints, > > you > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > choice) > > in re- > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > environment > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > reptile > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > to be > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > fish > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > elevated > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) The fish are > > > probably just really wiped out right now from > all > > the medical > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > in > > the hospital > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > to be > > absorbed > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > out > > by their > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > which > > is > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > at the > > surface, > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > return. The > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > All > > the agitation > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > there > > is more gas > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > waves. > > The up/down > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > of a > > tank > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > since they > > do not > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > I > > guess if it was > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > removing all the > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > a > > price. I've > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > that > > used to have > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > year. > > Tell them > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > to > > about $25.00. > > > ;-) > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > that > > shouldn't > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > plastic > > of the same > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > sure > > the front > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > someone > > removed that > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > where > > the glass had > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > over 400 > > pounds of > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > let me > > know. I > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > Fungus > > Clear. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > Jungle > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > bottom. > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > (do > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > CB > > also > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > there. > > And > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > up > > every > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > problem > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > wouldn't they > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > the > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > Craigslist > > for > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > resealing, > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > out > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > the > > plastic > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > accept a > > fish > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > I see > > that > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > this > > tank > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > see > > how I > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > boxes to > > see > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > only 18G > > of > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > more > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > returned 3G > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > 3G, but > > only > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > removing > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > of > > water > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > nitrite > > levels > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > than". > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > kit a > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > anywhere. > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > dragging. > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > Clear > > starts > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > there's > > only > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > bit > > won't > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > from > > his > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34725	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: was sunday test results now rehoming plecos

You will need to order the API Master test kits and add-on kits like the GH/KH combo, from WalMart.com and have them delivered to the store near your friend... at least none of the six WalMarts around me carry them in stock. I'm not sure you really need a phosphate test kit. I don't have one and have never felt the need for one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 12:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]was sunday test results now rehoming plecos Whew... now we're talking a smuggling conspiracy. LOL at the price of things up here ...... yup !! even with the exchange it is still cheaper !!!! the test kit for phosphate is 18$ and the test kit for Nitrate is 17$ ...... might as well get the master kit from wal martfor that price next time i visit my friend in the states Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34726	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: I Lost A Link! Help?

Try this tinyURL. I'm sure the link must have broken which is why the page isn't loading properly. http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 1:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I Lost A Link! Help? Thanks Len, I went over there right away but keep getting a "failure to load data page" up. I'll keep trying, Bill --- On Mon, 12/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I Lost A Link! Help? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 12:36 PM Hi Bill, That was me... the king of links. ;-) I never did do much research on that site to see how good their database was but here's the link. After you put in your water parameters, let us know which fish they recommend. http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?op=modload& name=database& file=index_ spec ies The website has a URL with Aquaria.info but their header refers to FishGeeks. I never really dealt with this website before coming across their database search engine.... but it seems like a pretty comprehensive website. In the advanced search section, fill out all of the parameters that are known... temperature, pH, General Hardness and since your tank is still considered on the small size and I know you like lots of fish, stick with fish that stay under 3" and Peaceful. This should work as long as the database was properly built. But with computing, GIGO can result in bad information (GIGO = Garbage In, Garbage Out). Hopefully, they used Mongabay profiles or other reliable profiles, like Fishbase.org or the Baensch Aquarium Atlas series that \\Steve// and others recommend, for building their database. I just did a test search using 3" as maximum size, a pH of 6, temperature of 78 and 1 dH of Hardness and put Peaceful as the temperament of the fish. I left all of the other fields as "All". It came up with two pages of fish species and you can right-click on the individual species links right from those pages to open the profiles in a new tab or page so you don't have to close your search pages. Compare a few of their profile sheets to Mongabay's and if they are pretty much right on, then let us know. The first species in my sample search, Apistogramma gossei, did not have a profile on Mongabay (but I didn't search hard for it) but Fishbase.org has a profile with slightly different info but the FishGeeks profile info was pretty close. http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?file= speciesdetails& id=120&op= modload&na me=database http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=46627 The next fish, Apistogramma macmasteri, also did not have a profile on Mongabay but below are the FishGeek and FishBase profiles. http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?file= speciesdetails& id=123&op= modload&na me=database http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=46660 The profiles are different as far as the exact details for fish length, so FishGeeks isn't getting their info from Fishbase but they seem close enough to not be a problem. FishGeeks doesn't say where they got the data for their database but if it was from a reliable source, then it should be OK. Their Goldfish profile left much to be desired since they had the goldfish all classified under the same species.. which is technically accurate but fancy goldfish have much different parameters than their common brethren. FishGeeks have them all listed with 20" max size and 20 year lifespan but the fancy goldfish do not typically make it to those numbers where the long-bodied goldfish could exceed those numbers. At least they had minimum tank size as 100G... which is a helluva lot better than the 10G figures I see on so many goldfish profiles and care sheets. They also have this disclaimer.. . "Temperature, lifespan, space requirements, etc. all depend to a large degree on which of the 170+ recognized varieties you are dealing with. Come to the goldfish forum for answers to more specific questions." http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?file= speciesdetails& id=246&op= modload&na me=database Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:37 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] I Lost A Link! Help? Somebody, somewhere here was kind enough to post a special link for me sometime back. The link involved the use or way of looking up fish to keep by water their pH requirements first. I¢ve searched through the group achieve, and Google, and I still cannot find the link. At first I thought is was the one for Mongabay.com but not. Although they give the information after reading through the specie, you cannot get to the water or pH requirement directly only by fish type. Does anyone remember or have this link and please re-post it here for me? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34727	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

I'll substantiate that for Deb -- Do not mess with your pH -- it will not be toxic if you can just get the ammonia and nitrite levels down. I just checked back to the first message in this thread, and I see you had prolonged ammonia and nitrite levels of at least 0.25 on both of these and even up to 1.0 ppm of ammonia -- since December 1st -- and I don't know for how long before that. That's at least 3 weeks of your fish being subjected to some levels of both of these compounds, and as I said, while .25 ppm may not necessarily be toxic at pH 7.6 (at 77 o ?, or so) if only kept in that for a short time, the longer the fish are subjected to this same level (of either of these waste levels) the more toxic this level will become to them. If daily 20% PWC's is insufficient to bring these levels down, their frequency needs to be increased (and their quantity can also be increased a bit, at least to 25%, or 33%). No zeolite at this time; just bear with it until the cycle completes. Lenny, thanks for the tip on Gmail and Outlook, I'll have to keep that in mind for the auto-save settings. I generally go right to the Group-Page Site, open the post I'm about to reply to, and type/send my reply from there. Yes, I certainly lost it with the power failure; its no where to be found. Very frustrating after putting in all the time and effort, considering the typing and all. I've had that also happen when losing the internet connection, too bad Yahoo doesn't have something to save it, its a complete waste otherwise. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You don't want to mess with your pH. It's perfect for goldfish and many > other fish as well. No, you don't want to use zeolite at this time. As far > as I can tell, your tank is on the verge of being completely cycled since > your ammonia and nitrite readings are below the 0.25 range. Follow Ray's > advice in his other longer post that just came through. > > On a side note, Ray, Gmail (for web based emailing of replies) and Outlook > for computer based emailing, both have settings to auto-save drafts as you > type so you don't lose your long replies in the event of a power failure or > internet connection issue. It's too bad Yahoo Group's doesn't have the > auto-save draft feature when typing replies on the web page... if that is > where you were typing your long reply that got lost. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 1:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing it) > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the PWC. The salt is > now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it yesterday just to > keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting on the bottom of the > tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is the stronger and larger of > the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get worse, I'll leave it at 1tsp/G > and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite lower. Will the zeolite help > with this level of salt in the tank? > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower this?); Ammonia: > slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline hadn't been zero, I'd think > the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 11:44 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Deb, While you may (should) do a PWC at noon to help keep your ammonia and > nitrite down, DO NOT remove any more salt. You should not have removed this > much. If, as it does appear, hemorragic septicemia is starting to set in (as > would be the reason for the red streaking in the fins), salt should not be > reduced at this time. > Septicemia should not be dismissed as lighly as being stress, but is usually > the result of the presence of nitrogenous waste (ammonia and > nitrite) such as you have, as \\Steve// pointed out. While your ammonia and > nitrite has remained around 0.25 ppm for some time now, it should be known > that besides a higher pH rendering these compounds more toxic (and lessor > so, the temperature) the duration of these compounds in the environment has > a direct affect how toxic this is to fish. Salt will negate these toxic > effects. In my message to you yesterday, I indicated for you not to drop the > salt content any lower than what you had it at that time -- 1.73 tsp/G. I > know you didn't get that, but that's a long story which I'll follow up with, > but I'm sending you this first, before you make your PWC. BTW, in addition > to possible internal bacteria infections causing septicemia (red streaking), > it can also be caused by an internal viral infection -- but the initial > cause is usually nitrogenous waste. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > I've never treated with Maracyn Two. I've used Malachite > Green, Fungus Clear, and salt. The ammonia and nitrite seem to stay at about > .25ppm no matter what I do. They went for 4 days between PWCs with the > Fungus Clear and the ammonia still didn't get much over .25ppm, but the > nitrate level went up some. I'll be doing a Tank reading this morning, so > I'll post those results. The next PWC is at noon. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:59 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The red streaks can be from several issues. Stress (we know > they've had > > that), ammonia poisoning (we know they've had to deal with that a > little), > > internal bacterial issues resulting in Hemorrhagic Septicemia but > the > > Maracyn Two treatment should have beat this back so lets hope > that it's just > > the stress and ammonia that is causing the red streaks. > > > > How has your cycling been coming along? Is the ammonia and > nitrite down to > > 0.0ppm yet? Give us the numbers... so test before doing your > next PWC so we > > can see how they are doing. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) > > > > - 3G PWC @ noon > > - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) > > - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and > foraging today > > - there must have still been some osmotic issues in addition to > the pour > > appetite from the parasites, or else she finally decided to > sample the pea > > meat. > > - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the > ends. Could > > this be from reducing the salt or is it something I should worry > about? > > - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time > I do > > something that requires getting the fish out of the way. > > "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" > > > > Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a > night > > person, too, so it works out, I guess. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to > feed them > > right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian > conditioning to > > start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous > owner. If > > it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after > lights out > > and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the > external > > environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are > out so things > > look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested > in what's > > going on in the room. > > > > A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether > the fish > > can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. > For > > example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than > inside, the > > glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very > well. If > > you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much > better. I'm > > not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly > against the > > glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank > at an > > angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of > the tank when > > the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you > look from > > the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see > through them > > rather than get the mirror effect. > > > > I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our > public > > aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the > tank but I > > also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when > I'm in the > > room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think > they can see > > even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights > are on, > > compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are > off. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) > > > > - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to > 1.73tsp/G. I > > figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to > slow the > > fungus) > > - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll > touch > > > > Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for > a while, > > after I turn off the lamp at night. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q > FOR RAY > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I > don't ask > > them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in > the store. > > There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last > summer > > sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little > place and I > > doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was > anything that > > most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't > arrive today. > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two > weeks. I was > > just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top > for flakes > > tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at > whatever > > happened to fall nearby. > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray > had said > > it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to > make sure > > the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and > that the > > Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only > lowering the salt > > to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the > fungus to > > get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. > SHOULD I > > CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, > for today. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else > without > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > potential for > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... > and it's also > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week > or so just > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system > disorders.. > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few > days which > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn > 2? And > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to > this last > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of > the meds. > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too > much meds. > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of > just fresh > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest > between > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh > air for > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds > that are > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the > PWC's will > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > 2.08tsp/G) > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra > flakes, > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the > carbs will > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to > work. If it > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that > might help > > until Monday? > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > There's a tiny > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding > anything to > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here > to the 20G. > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the > previous > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these > three > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the > wax. > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a > bit > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, > remains to be > > seen. > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the > fish before > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the > Christmas > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even > care about > > that. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention > due to > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > hopefully she'll > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so > it wasn't > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or > same size > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she > is growing > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > Hopefully, they > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there > and I don't > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > goldfish in the > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) > What size > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have > been in from > > the beginning? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; > Nitrite: > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the > last PWC. > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at > bay until I > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing > occasionally > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they > arrived about 3 > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go > down to > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt > Levels" for > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since > there isn't > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > 20Chemistry/ > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > 20Chemistry/> > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after > exertion > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of > the head, > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is > eating and > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not > eating at > > the time. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen > cycle nearly > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > ammonia/nitrite > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying > bacteria > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so > you should > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to > keep nitrates > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon) of > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it > down to > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll > bring the > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% > down to > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > number). You will > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the > 3G PWC's, > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of > those, you > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no > longer be > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow > gulping > > motion? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > probably what > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > over .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and > today's > > PWC) > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and > that choking > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. > When > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > especially > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > reduced. > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form > of > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > treating > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting from > > flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will reject any > > kind of food as their internal infections worsen and > will > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your > not > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed > your > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more > frequent > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want > to > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>,"Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > > (depending on lighting) > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have > been. > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did see > > her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing > this. > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets > from > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty > much > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not > sure > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > Jungles > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent > most > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when > Raven > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner > for a > > bit. > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity--- > -- > > ---------------- > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms > up > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could > have > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped > fins > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm seeing > > at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are > doing. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > > column, it > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > bladders, as > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > > would > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > > being a > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > bacterial. > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > > Hexamita, > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > > and > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > > they > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > > they > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > infections > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > impossible > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > microscope). > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > clearing up > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > medications > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > > Since > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > > the > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > > fungus > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > > (unless you > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > > shipped > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > another 4 > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > > should > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > > normal > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > > an > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > > remove it. > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > > treatment > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > > in > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > > the > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > > find > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > > contact > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > > (treats > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > > $32.74 > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > effective as > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > mention for > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > > a > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > > can use > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > > pond > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > > priced > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > > that's > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > > One > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > > Tabs) or > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > > Both > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > > for > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > > little > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > > also > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > > source > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > > Jungles > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > > bottom > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > > choice, > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > > too > > > much. > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > > some is > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > > see > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > > food > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > > not > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > > has > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > > most > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > > shiny, > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > > probably > > > a sign of healing? > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > > is set > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > > scraped > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > concerned > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > > related > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > instructions > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > > a 25% > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > > put the > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > before we > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > > sales. > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > > stripped > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > > slate- > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > > what I'd > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > > as > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > discouraging. > > > If, by > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > > surface > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > > glass > > > in > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > > at the > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > > not > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > > by the > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > > bouyed > > > up at > > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > > bladders > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > > choice > > > rather > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > possible > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > > on > > > their > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > > and > > > is > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > > being > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > > written > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > > and > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > > something > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > temperature? > > > Are > > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > > you > > > have > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > extent as > > > to > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > > may > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > > the > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > > up to > > > 55 > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > > them. > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > > as > > > again > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > > support) > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > bond/seal > > > between > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > > yet > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > > and > > > Lenny > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > > joints, > > > you > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > > choice) > > > in re- > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > > environment > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > > reptile > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > > to be > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > > fish > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > > elevated > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) The fish are > > > > probably just really wiped out right now from > > all > > > the medical > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > > in > > > the hospital > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > > to be > > > absorbed > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > > out > > > by their > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > > which > > > is > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > > at the > > > surface, > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > > return. The > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > > All > > > the agitation > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > > there > > > is more gas > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > waves. > > > The up/down > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > > of a > > > tank > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > since they > > > do not > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > > I > > > guess if it was > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > > removing all the > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > > a > > > price. I've > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > > that > > > used to have > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > > year. > > > Tell them > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > > to > > > about $25.00. > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > > that > > > shouldn't > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > > plastic > > > of the same > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > > sure > > > the front > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > someone > > > removed that > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > > where > > > the glass had > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > over 400 > > > pounds of > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > > let me > > > know. I > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > Fungus > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > > Jungle > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > > bottom. > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > > (do > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > > CB > > > also > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > > there. > > > And > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > > up > > > every > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > > problem > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > wouldn't they > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > > the > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > Craigslist > > > for > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > resealing, > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > > out > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > > the > > > plastic > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > > accept a > > > fish > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > I see > > > that > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > > this > > > tank > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > > see > > > how I > > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > > boxes to > > > see > > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > > only 18G > > > of > > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > > more > > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > > returned 3G > > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > > 3G, but > > > only > > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > > removing > > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > > of > > > water > > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > > nitrite > > > levels > > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > > than". > > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > > kit a > > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > > anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > > dragging. > > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > > Clear > > > starts > > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > > there's > > > only > > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > > bit > > > won't > > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > > from > > > his > > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34728	From: bill1433	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: I Lost A Link! Help?

Thanks Len,   This one works,   Bill --- On Mon, 12/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I Lost A Link! Help? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 3:02 PM Try this tinyURL. I'm sure the link must have broken which is why the page isn't loading properly. http://tinyurl. com/FishGeeks- Database- Search Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 1:20 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I Lost A Link! Help? Thanks Len, I went over there right away but keep getting a "failure to load data page" up. I'll keep trying, Bill --- On Mon, 12/22/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] I Lost A Link! Help? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 12:36 PM Hi Bill, That was me... the king of links. ;-) I never did do much research on that site to see how good their database was but here's the link. After you put in your water parameters, let us know which fish they recommend. http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?op=modload& name=database& file=index_ spec ies The website has a URL with Aquaria.info but their header refers to FishGeeks. I never really dealt with this website before coming across their database search engine.... but it seems like a pretty comprehensive website.. In the advanced search section, fill out all of the parameters that are known... temperature, pH, General Hardness and since your tank is still considered on the small size and I know you like lots of fish, stick with fish that stay under 3" and Peaceful. This should work as long as the database was properly built. But with computing, GIGO can result in bad information (GIGO = Garbage In, Garbage Out). Hopefully, they used Mongabay profiles or other reliable profiles, like Fishbase.org or the Baensch Aquarium Atlas series that \\Steve// and others recommend, for building their database. I just did a test search using 3" as maximum size, a pH of 6, temperature of 78 and 1 dH of Hardness and put Peaceful as the temperament of the fish. I left all of the other fields as "All". It came up with two pages of fish species and you can right-click on the individual species links right from those pages to open the profiles in a new tab or page so you don't have to close your search pages. Compare a few of their profile sheets to Mongabay's and if they are pretty much right on, then let us know. The first species in my sample search, Apistogramma gossei, did not have a profile on Mongabay (but I didn't search hard for it) but Fishbase.org has a profile with slightly different info but the FishGeeks profile info was pretty close. http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?file= speciesdetails& id=120&op= modload&na me=database http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=46627 The next fish, Apistogramma macmasteri, also did not have a profile on Mongabay but below are the FishGeek and FishBase profiles. http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?file= speciesdetails& id=123&op= modload&na me=database http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ speciesSummary. php?ID=46660 The profiles are different as far as the exact details for fish length, so FishGeeks isn't getting their info from Fishbase but they seem close enough to not be a problem. FishGeeks doesn't say where they got the data for their database but if it was from a reliable source, then it should be OK. Their Goldfish profile left much to be desired since they had the goldfish all classified under the same species.. which is technically accurate but fancy goldfish have much different parameters than their common brethren. FishGeeks have them all listed with 20" max size and 20 year lifespan but the fancy goldfish do not typically make it to those numbers where the long-bodied goldfish could exceed those numbers. At least they had minimum tank size as 100G... which is a helluva lot better than the 10G figures I see on so many goldfish profiles and care sheets. They also have this disclaimer.. . "Temperature, lifespan, space requirements, etc. all depend to a large degree on which of the 170+ recognized varieties you are dealing with. Come to the goldfish forum for answers to more specific questions." http://www.aquaria. info/modules. php?file= speciesdetails& id=246&op= modload&na me=database Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:37 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] I Lost A Link! Help? Somebody, somewhere here was kind enough to post a special link for me sometime back. The link involved the use or way of looking up fish to keep by water their pH requirements first. I¢ve searched through the group achieve, and Google, and I still cannot find the link. At first I thought is was the one for Mongabay.com but not. Although they give the information after reading through the specie, you cannot get to the water or pH requirement directly only by fish type. Does anyone remember or have this link and please re-post it here for me? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34729	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: pleco's

Okay my LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's huge, *sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon tank, and hope it doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. Right now it is my community tank/semi aggressive until I get substrate for my 55 gallon tank and move some fish and filters over there. I also have to wait until my new filter arrives in the mail, and the parts to the eheim arrive. They have some very small sailfin (for now small at least) pleco's in the store and I could get one for my big tank to help with the algae build up that's been appearing this weekend. I haven't changed my lighting schedule and suddenly I'm getting an algae build up, which I guess is good in a way, except I have no algae eating fish, LOL. I also had to move some plants out of the tank because someone (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting the smaller plants and/or eating some of them. I need to find some hardier plants I guess, they leave the bigger ones alone. My question is this, should I wait to get the pleco until I move the community fish into my 55 gallon because of the added bioload or will he benefit enough by eating my algae for it to be okay? I'm hoping my Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered it a couple weeks ago on ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) so who knows how long it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm going to put the filter on the 125 gallon for some added filtration. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34730	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

If you don't want to have a "pet" pleco for the next 20 years, arrange with the LFS to let you trade him in every year or so. This way, you get the benefits of an algae eater that stays kind of small (shouldn't get over 6" in a year) and when you trade him in for a new small one, they get the benefit of a bigger algae eater they can sell your year old pleco to someone else that needs a big one from the start if they have a BIG or aggressive fish tank. You could even move him from tank to tank at your home to do his cleanup work as long as the water parameters on both tanks are consistent. Your other option is ordering a smaller species online. You should also be persistent with your LFS about getting some Bristle Nosed and Clown Plecos. They are becoming much more "common" than the common plecos since most people can't handle the BIG BOYS anyhow. Where the dwarf plecos used to cost a lot more money than the common plecos, I got my Clown Pleco for $3.50 a couple of months ago. The Albino BN's were $12.50. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco's Okay my LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's huge, *sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon tank, and hope it doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. Right now it is my community tank/semi aggressive until I get substrate for my 55 gallon tank and move some fish and filters over there. I also have to wait until my new filter arrives in the mail, and the parts to the eheim arrive. They have some very small sailfin (for now small at least) pleco's in the store and I could get one for my big tank to help with the algae build up that's been appearing this weekend. I haven't changed my lighting schedule and suddenly I'm getting an algae build up, which I guess is good in a way, except I have no algae eating fish, LOL. I also had to move some plants out of the tank because someone (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting the smaller plants and/or eating some of them. I need to find some hardier plants I guess, they leave the bigger ones alone. My question is this, should I wait to get the pleco until I move the community fish into my 55 gallon because of the added bioload or will he benefit enough by eating my algae for it to be okay? I'm hoping my Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered it a couple weeks ago on ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) so who knows how long it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm going to put the filter on the 125 gallon for some added filtration. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34731	From: pam andress	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

Amber don't get that pleco. If you want smaller plecos, then look on aquabid.com. I even have some I'm going to start selling after the holidays. I have baby bristle nose albino and browns. I have not shipped fish yet, so I'm a little scared. I have shipped snails and cherry shrimp though, so I do have some knowledge of shipping. There are many types of smaller plecos. You don't have to be stuck with something you really don't want. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: amber@...: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:32:53 -0900Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco's Okay my LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's huge, *sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon tank, and hope it doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. Right now it is my community tank/semi aggressive until I get substrate for my 55 gallon tank and move some fish and filters over there. I also have to wait until my new filter arrives in the mail, and the parts to the eheim arrive. They have some very small sailfin (for now small at least) pleco's in the store and I could get one for my big tank to help with the algae build up that's been appearing this weekend. I haven't changed my lighting schedule and suddenly I'm getting an algae build up, which I guess is good in a way, except I have no algae eating fish, LOL. I also had to move some plants out of the tank because someone (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting the smaller plants and/or eating some of them. I need to find some hardier plants I guess, they leave the bigger ones alone.My question is this, should I wait to get the pleco until I move the community fish into my 55 gallon because of the added bioload or will he benefit enough by eating my algae for it to be okay? I'm hoping my Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered it a couple weeks ago on ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) so who knows how long it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm going to put the filter on the 125 gallon for some added filtration.Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34732	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

Pam, You should plug your Aquabid nickname while you're posting about it. ;-) There's over 2,000 members in this group. Amber's issue is that she lives on Gilligan's Island (lol) somewhere in Alaska and the overnight companies don't pay attention to that whole overnight rule in her neck of the woods. If you are going to ship to her, make sure you pack the fish with enough heat packs and get the breathable bags and use Prime or some other ammonia detoxifier for water treatment just in case the overnight trip turns into a multi-day trip. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:54 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco's Amber don't get that pleco. If you want smaller plecos, then look on aquabid.com. I even have some I'm going to start selling after the holidays. I have baby bristle nose albino and browns. I have not shipped fish yet, so I'm a little scared. I have shipped snails and cherry shrimp though, so I do have some knowledge of shipping. There are many types of smaller plecos. You don't have to be stuck with something you really don't want. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> : Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:32:53 -0900Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco's Okay my LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's huge, *sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon tank, and hope it doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. Right now it is my community tank/semi aggressive until I get substrate for my 55 gallon tank and move some fish and filters over there. I also have to wait until my new filter arrives in the mail, and the parts to the eheim arrive. They have some very small sailfin (for now small at least) pleco's in the store and I could get one for my big tank to help with the algae build up that's been appearing this weekend. I haven't changed my lighting schedule and suddenly I'm getting an algae build up, which I guess is good in a way, except I have no algae eating fish, LOL. I also had to move some plants out of the tank because someone (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting the smaller plants and/or eating some of them. I need to find some hardier plants I guess, they leave the bigger ones alone.My question is this, should I wait to get the pleco until I move the community fish into my 55 gallon because of the added bioload or will he benefit enough by eating my algae for it to be okay? I'm hoping my Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered it a couple weeks ago on ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) so who knows how long it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm going to put the filter on the 125 gallon for some added filtration.Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34733	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's/Lenny

Clown Pleco for $3.50 a couple of months ago. i saw a clown pleco in my LPS and they wanted 24.99$ for it !!!!! and it was only about 2 inches long !!!! how hard is it to transport fish in a car, say a one hour trip ??? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34734	From: Jim	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Blister?

Today I had a blister-like growth on the dorsal fin of one of my German Blue angels. Has anyone any experience with something like this? I have isolated the fish in a quarantine tank and have introduced some melafix. Any suggestions? Pic links below. http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34735	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

I wouldn't mind ordering from someone personally, but all the big name stores on the internet won't ship to me since it takes 2 days for an overnight package to get here. Little do they know that I work for fed ex and I can pick the package up the night before it's technically due so that the fish only sit there for around 36 hours travel time total rather than 48 hours of travel (12 hours sitting on hour freight floor until we get there in the morning to sort it). The only thing is that I'd have to sort ALL the packages until I found my fish package and then HOPE that the people delivering our freight were actually gentle with it for a change ;) I don't think there are any online fish stores that will actually ship to me though :( The reason that my LFS doesn't get any of the cooler species of plecos is because they have a hard time getting them to live in our water parameters, I guess a lot of the species don't like very soft water and the combination of a lower pH (6-6.5 for most of the town water). I tried asking them to order some of the clown varieties, but it's even rare for them to order pleco's at all let alone any of the smaller varieties, they only seem to get the "average" pleco's that you see in most tanks, probably because they're the cheapest ones they can find from their fish company. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Pam, > > You should plug your Aquabid nickname while you're posting about it. ;-) > There's over 2,000 members in this group. > > Amber's issue is that she lives on Gilligan's Island (lol) somewhere in > Alaska and the overnight companies don't pay attention to that whole > overnight rule in her neck of the woods. If you are going to ship to her, > make sure you pack the fish with enough heat packs and get the breathable > bags and use Prime or some other ammonia detoxifier for water > treatment just > in case the overnight trip turns into a multi-day trip. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:54 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco's > > Amber don't get that pleco. If you want smaller plecos, then look on > aquabid.com. I even have some I'm going to start selling after the > holidays. > I have baby bristle nose albino and browns. I have not shipped fish > yet, so > I'm a little scared. I have shipped snails and cherry shrimp though, > so I do > have some knowledge of shipping. There are many types of smaller > plecos. You > don't have to be stuck with something you really don't want. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> : Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:32:53 > -0900Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco's > > Okay my LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's huge, > *sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon tank, > and hope > it doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. Right now it > is my > community tank/semi aggressive until I get substrate for my 55 gallon tank > and move some fish and filters over there. I also have to wait until > my new > filter arrives in the mail, and the parts to the eheim arrive. They have > some very small sailfin (for now small at least) pleco's in the store > and I > could get one for my big tank to help with the algae build up that's been > appearing this weekend. I haven't changed my lighting schedule and > suddenly > I'm getting an algae build up, which I guess is good in a way, except > I have > no algae eating fish, LOL. I also had to move some plants out of the tank > because someone (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting the smaller > plants and/or eating some of them. I need to find some hardier plants I > guess, they leave the bigger ones alone.My question is this, should I wait > to get the pleco until I move the community fish into my 55 gallon because > of the added bioload or will he benefit enough by eating my algae for > it to > be okay? I'm hoping my Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered it a > couple weeks ago on ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) so who > knows how long it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm going to put > the filter on the 125 gallon for some added filtration.Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34736	From: va22_vyshys	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Mixing Amphibs with small fish

Amphibs. yes, reptiles, no. Most if not all aquatic reptiles are more than capable of taking in fish as they consist of their main diet. Even turtle a musk or mud turtle which only obtains about 5-8 inches in length is more than capable of taking out about a 4 inch fish. Secondly most reptile are very free in getting rid of waste meaning they poop everywhere, and that can cause many disease issues in fish. As far as amphibians go please do some research before buying any animals. Most likely you are thinking about frogs and frogs are very piscivorous. Secondly frogs are no very active in or out the water, as quick as they are, they are lazy animals. Fish being nosy by nature, will pick on them. So give them a lot of hiding places and match up personalities and it is defininely possible.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34737	From: pam andress	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

Lenny, I'm afraid to ship my plecos. Thats why I haven't started selling them yet. I know everyone that ships has to start somewhere and I have shipped my snails and cherry shrimp, but PLECOS??? All of my animals are my babies and since they where born here, they are so even more. They are my first plecos to breed. Right now I have 4 batches growing up and a male sitting on eggs. :) Most are browns, but I do have some albinos too and some are mixed parents. Sure I can post my aquabid name (ucdxmisty), but there are many people on aquabid that have much more experience shipping fish and maybe she doesn't want BN's. I just hate seeing people stuck with something they really don't want. Pam PS I don't have any breather bags and have been told to watch them with plecos. I also have other fish to sell too. lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:11:49 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco's Pam,You should plug your Aquabid nickname while you're posting about it. ;-)There's over 2,000 members in this group. Amber's issue is that she lives on Gilligan's Island (lol) somewhere inAlaska and the overnight companies don't pay attention to that wholeovernight rule in her neck of the woods. If you are going to ship to her,make sure you pack the fish with enough heat packs and get the breathablebags and use Prime or some other ammonia detoxifier for water treatment justin case the overnight trip turns into a multi-day trip.Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the rightside, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:54 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco'sAmber don't get that pleco. If you want smaller plecos, then look onaquabid.com. I even have some I'm going to start selling after the holidays.I have baby bristle nose albino and browns. I have not shipped fish yet, soI'm a little scared. I have shipped snails and cherry shrimp though, so I dohave some knowledge of shipping. There are many types of smaller plecos. Youdon't have to be stuck with something you really don't want.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : amber@...<mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> : Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:32:53-0900Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco'sOkay my LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's huge,*sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon tank, and hopeit doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. Right now it is mycommunity tank/semi aggressive until I get substrate for my 55 gallon tankand move some fish and filters over there. I also have to wait until my newfilter arrives in the mail, and the parts to the eheim arrive. They havesome very small sailfin (for now small at least) pleco's in the store and Icould get one for my big tank to help with the algae build up that's beenappearing this weekend. I haven't changed my lighting schedule and suddenlyI'm getting an algae build up, which I guess is good in a way, except I haveno algae eating fish, LOL. I also had to move some plants out of the tankbecause someone (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting the smallerplants and/or eating some of them. I need to find some hardier plants Iguess, they leave the bigger ones alone.My question is this, should I waitto get the pleco until I move the community fish into my 55 gallon becauseof the added bioload or will he benefit enough by eating my algae for it tobe okay? I'm hoping my Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered it acouple weeks ago on ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) so whoknows how long it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm going to putthe filter on the 125 gallon for some added filtration.Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34738	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Mixing Amphibs with small fish

Amphib says, "Yum, yum." Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Iksnip@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mixing Amphibs with small fish Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone has had any success mixing amphibs or even small reptiles (using land ofcourse) with their fish? If so, what kind of success have you had and what have you used? Ken **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34739	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

I got a BN pleco as lagniappe with my first Cherry Shrimp order from a private seller online. The Cherry Shrimp and he did fine in the two day shipping process but I think they shipped the little guy too early in his life... he was only about 1/2" long... but I thought he was going to make it at first but he only lasted three days and died without any known cause. Up until that third day, he was eating algae, swimming around, etc. Shipping pleco's is no different than shipping any other fish or critters. I wonder why the breather bags would be an issue for plecos unless when they suction to the bag, they might be able to breathe through the bag??? I wouldn't think so due to the science involved in breathable bags but who knows. A BN would be good for her tank size... the big question is does she want an ugly nosed male or a "normal" female. I would want one of the ugly duckling males. lol I've read you can't tell the males from the females until around 8-12 months.. well at least the bristles do not grow large enough on the males until that time. Is this accurate? How old are yours before the bristles start showing up on the males? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 6:34 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco's Lenny, I'm afraid to ship my plecos. Thats why I haven't started selling them yet. I know everyone that ships has to start somewhere and I have shipped my snails and cherry shrimp, but PLECOS??? All of my animals are my babies and since they where born here, they are so even more. They are my first plecos to breed. Right now I have 4 batches growing up and a male sitting on eggs. :) Most are browns, but I do have some albinos too and some are mixed parents. Sure I can post my aquabid name (ucdxmisty), but there are many people on aquabid that have much more experience shipping fish and maybe she doesn't want BN's. I just hate seeing people stuck with something they really don't want. Pam PS I don't have any breather bags and have been told to watch them with plecos. I also have other fish to sell too. lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:11:49 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco's Pam,You should plug your Aquabid nickname while you're posting about it. ;-)There's over 2,000 members in this group. Amber's issue is that she lives on Gilligan's Island (lol) somewhere inAlaska and the overnight companies don't pay attention to that wholeovernight rule in her neck of the woods. If you are going to ship to her,make sure you pack the fish with enough heat packs and get the breathablebags and use Prime or some other ammonia detoxifier for water treatment justin case the overnight trip turns into a multi-day trip.Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the rightside, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:54 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife] pleco'sAmber don't get that pleco. If you want smaller plecos, then look onaquabid.com. I even have some I'm going to start selling after the holidays.I have baby bristle nose albino and browns. I have not shipped fish yet, soI'm a little scared. I have shipped snails and cherry shrimp though, so I dohave some knowledge of shipping. There are many types of smaller plecos. Youdon't have to be stuck with something you really don't want.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> : Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:32:53-0900Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco'sOkay my LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's huge,*sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon tank, and hopeit doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. Right now it is mycommunity tank/semi aggressive until I get substrate for my 55 gallon tankand move some fish and filters over there. I also have to wait until my newfilter arrives in the mail, and the parts to the eheim arrive. They havesome very small sailfin (for now small at least) pleco's in the store and Icould get one for my big tank to help with the algae build up that's beenappearing this weekend. I haven't changed my lighting schedule and suddenlyI'm getting an algae build up, which I guess is good in a way, except I haveno algae eating fish, LOL. I also had to move some plants out of the tankbecause someone (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting the smallerplants and/or eating some of them. I need to find some hardier plants Iguess, they leave the bigger ones alone.My question is this, should I waitto get the pleco until I move the community fish into my 55 gallon becauseof the added bioload or will he benefit enough by eating my algae for it tobe okay? I'm hoping my Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered it acouple weeks ago on ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) so whoknows how long it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm going to putthe filter on the 125 gallon for some added filtration.Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34740	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

Honestly I would take what I could get if they were healthy and shipped right. I have my own fed ex account so you wouldn't have to worry about anything except putting my account number in for the billing information ;) I don't know anything about shipping fish though so I will have to wait till I have more confidence in it ;) For one thing right now is a very bad time to ship anything, LOL. Perhaps later this winter or early spring. Considering the prices on the smaller pleco's I think bushy nose pleco's might be the better way to go, all the other's (on this site at least) seem higher priced from what I can see (except the candy stripe pleco which is currently on sale on liveaquaria.com, heh). Amber pam andress wrote: > > > Lenny, > > I'm afraid to ship my plecos. Thats why I haven't started selling them > yet. I know everyone that ships has to start somewhere and I have > shipped my snails and cherry shrimp, but PLECOS??? All of my animals > are my babies and since they where born here, they are so even more. > They are my first plecos to breed. Right now I have 4 batches growing > up and a male sitting on eggs. :) Most are browns, but I do have some > albinos too and some are mixed parents. Sure I can post my aquabid > name (ucdxmisty), but there are many people on aquabid that have much > more experience shipping fish and maybe she doesn't want BN's. I just > hate seeing people stuck with something they really don't want. > > Pam > PS I don't have any breather bags and have been told to watch them > with plecos. I also have other fish to sell too. lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:11:49 > -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco's > > Pam,You should plug your Aquabid nickname while you're posting about > it. ;-)There's over 2,000 members in this group. Amber's issue is that > she lives on Gilligan's Island (lol) somewhere inAlaska and the > overnight companies don't pay attention to that wholeovernight rule in > her neck of the woods. If you are going to ship to her,make sure you > pack the fish with enough heat packs and get the breathablebags and > use Prime or some other ammonia detoxifier for water treatment justin > case the overnight trip turns into a multi-day trip.Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>(Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the rightside, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: > Monday, December 22, 2008 3:54 PMTo: > aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>: RE: [AquaticLife] > pleco'sAmber don't get that pleco. If you want smaller plecos, then > look onaquabid.com. I even have some I'm going to start selling after > the holidays.I have baby bristle nose albino and browns. I have not > shipped fish yet, soI'm a little scared. I have shipped snails and > cherry shrimp though, so I dohave some knowledge of shipping. There > are many types of smaller plecos. Youdon't have to be stuck with > something you really don't want.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > : amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate><mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> > : Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:32:53-0900Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco'sOkay my > LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's > huge,*sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon > tank, and hopeit doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. > Right now it is mycommunity tank/semi aggressive until I get substrate > for my 55 gallon tankand move some fish and filters over there. I also > have to wait until my newfilter arrives in the mail, and the parts to > the eheim arrive. They havesome very small sailfin (for now small at > least) pleco's in the store and Icould get one for my big tank to help > with the algae build up that's beenappearing this weekend. I haven't > changed my lighting schedule and suddenlyI'm getting an algae build > up, which I guess is good in a way, except I haveno algae eating fish, > LOL. I also had to move some plants out of the tankbecause someone > (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting the smallerplants and/or > eating some of them. I need to find some hardier plants Iguess, they > leave the bigger ones alone.My question is this, should I waitto get > the pleco until I move the community fish into my 55 gallon becauseof > the added bioload or will he benefit enough by eating my algae for it > tobe okay? I'm hoping my Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered > it acouple weeks ago on ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) > so whoknows how long it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm > going to putthe filter on the 125 gallon for some added > filtration.Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34741	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

yeah the first time i used ammonia was for a different 29 gallon tank and i used a capful then. the ammonia is still just above 2, nitrite 0, i haven't measured nitrate cuz it's a pain but i figure it's 0 since you have to have nitrite before you get nitrate i don't have a KH test but i know the water is pretty hard here and my pH in my tropical tanks seem to hover around 7.6, the only tank that differs is my cichlid tank which has calcite bedding so it really keeps the pH high, and the local water from the tap is 7.6 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. So your plan is working. I'm not sure about the capful process unless > you previously knew this to be an accurate measurement for that volume > tank... but I'm glad it only raised it to 4ppm. What you should do now is > monitor the ammonia each day and bring it back up to 4-5ppm. Since it's in > that color range where it's hard to tell if it's 2 or 4, let it get to where > you can tell it's definitely 2 and then add 1 drop per gallon and retest. > Or you could try 1/2 a capful since a full capful brought it up to 4ppm, 1/2 > capful should only add 2ppm back to the tank. After adding the 1/2 capful, > test and if it's back up to 4ppm, then you know you can add that dose > whenever it gets down to 2ppm. > > What is your KH level... if you have that test? Or do you know if you have > soft or hard water? Do you know the pH? Give us all of your test results > for each test you have, preferably ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH and > water temp, and I can help further. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cloudy water > > i added about a capfull and the reading was 4 yesterday, and it's still > around 2-4 right now > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Oh OK. You do know that you have to control the amount of ammonia > that you > > add.. right? Usually 3 to 5 drops per gallon and then measure it > to make > > sure you don't go over 4-5ppm while you are starting the fishless > cycle. > > > > I'm not sure why you didn't see the white cloud before in previous > fishless > > cycles but it's more likely to happen when you seed the filter > system than > > when you let the nitrogen cycle develop naturally. > > > > Give us your test results while you have the cloud so we can see > what the > > numbers say. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 10:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: cloudy water > > > > the gravel from one of my established tanks is in the intake > reservior and > > the ammona is just ammonia, i didn't get it from a tank i pour > some in and > > give the bacteria a chance to build up and convert it before i add > fish, i > > did the same thing when starting my last tank and it seemd to work > perfectly > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > What do you mean by "added ammonia... from established tank"? I > > under stand > > > the gravel, decor, etc., but not sure how you can add ammonia > from > > an > > > established tank since an established tank should not have any > > ammonia in > > > it. > > > > > > If you also transferred some detritus with the gravel from the > > established > > > tank, that's good since you don't mention having fish in the > newly > > set up > > > tank and the nitrifying bacteria need an ammonia source or > they'll > > die off. > > > > > > Normally, the white cloudy water in a newly set up tank is from a > > bacterial > > > bloom.. usually the nitrifying bacteria blooming in the water > > column until > > > they find a surface area to call home. Most of them will live in > > your > > > filter system media (sponges, floss pads, bio-media, etc.) but > > they will > > > also live on the surface of the gravel, on plants, decorations > and > > even the > > > glass. > > > > > > Where did you put the "used" gravel? Since you mention "black > > gravel" and > > > then later mention "added ammonia and gravel from an established > > tank", I'm > > > guessing that the black gravel was new. The used gravel or cycled > > filter > > > media would be best if put into the reservoir of your new filter > > system but > > > once again, this should not be done until you are also ready to > > add some > > > fish or the nitrifying bacteria will starve without a source of > > ammonia. > > > > > > Give us more details and chronology if the above did not answer > > your > > > questions. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles > referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:34 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] cloudy water > > > > > > 29 gallon bio cube, fresh water, just set up, added some decor, > > black > > > gravel, two live plants, one is planted in drift wood, added > > ammonia and > > > gravel from an established tank. this is the second day it's been > > running, I > > > woke up this morning and the water was milky cloudy looking. I > > have not > > > experienced this with my other tanks, so i don't know what causes > > it and how > > > to fix it, please help >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34742	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: cloudy water

it seemed a little clearer this afternoon, so it seems like the cloudiness should lift naturally as the tank cycles, i just wanted to make sure it's not something that is going to nag my tank over time and hurt my fish once i add them --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I think the extra ammonia you added is causing an ammonia bloom, if you > can't test the ammonia right now I would at least do PWC's (25% every > hour until the water looks clearer). When my tank had the first ammonia > bloom it was a white cloudiness. Adding the gravel from an established > tank was a good idea though, did you add any fish yet or is it just > plants and decorations? Perhaps you added a little too much ammonia if > you are trying to fishless cycle? > > Amber > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > 29 gallon bio cube, fresh water, just set up, added some decor, black > > gravel, two live plants, one is planted in drift wood, added ammonia > > and gravel from an established tank. this is the second day it's been > > running, I woke up this morning and the water was milky cloudy > > looking. I have not experienced this with my other tanks, so i don't > > know what causes it and how to fix it, please help > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34743	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Mixing Amphibs with small fish

I see it =- can't tell what's living in there. does he have both amphibians and small fish in there, and everyone is still living? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 10:40 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mixing Amphibs with small fish I've never done it but Chuck has... he has frogs, newts and crickets living in the land area. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g.htm Here's his detailed instructions on building his Paludarium. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g_construct.htm Take pics and keep a log if you do your own so you can create your own webpage/blog/article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mixing Amphibs with small fish Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone has had any success mixing amphibs or even small reptiles (using land ofcourse) with their fish? If so, what kind of success have you had and what have you used? Ken ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34744	From: pam andress	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

Well Amber if you want some of mine, just let me know when a good time would be to ship and we can make a deal. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: amber@...: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:33:11 -0900Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pleco's Honestly I would take what I could get if they were healthy and shipped right. I have my own fed ex account so you wouldn't have to worry about anything except putting my account number in for the billing information ;) I don't know anything about shipping fish though so I will have to wait till I have more confidence in it ;) For one thing right now is a very bad time to ship anything, LOL. Perhaps later this winter or early spring. Considering the prices on the smaller pleco's I think bushy nose pleco's might be the better way to go, all the other's (on this site at least) seem higher priced from what I can see (except the candy stripe pleco which is currently on sale on liveaquaria.com, heh).Amberpam andress wrote:>>> Lenny,>> I'm afraid to ship my plecos. Thats why I haven't started selling them > yet. I know everyone that ships has to start somewhere and I have > shipped my snails and cherry shrimp, but PLECOS??? All of my animals > are my babies and since they where born here, they are so even more. > They are my first plecos to breed. Right now I have 4 batches growing > up and a male sitting on eggs. :) Most are browns, but I do have some > albinos too and some are mixed parents. Sure I can post my aquabid > name (ucdxmisty), but there are many people on aquabid that have much > more experience shipping fish and maybe she doesn't want BN's. I just > hate seeing people stuck with something they really don't want.>> Pam> PS I don't have any breather bags and have been told to watch them > with plecos. I also have other fish to sell too. lol>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:11:49 > -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco's>> Pam,You should plug your Aquabid nickname while you're posting about > it. ;-)There's over 2,000 members in this group. Amber's issue is that > she lives on Gilligan's Island (lol) somewhere inAlaska and the > overnight companies don't pay attention to that wholeovernight rule in > her neck of the woods. If you are going to ship to her,make sure you > pack the fish with enough heat packs and get the breathablebags and > use Prime or some other ammonia detoxifier for water treatment justin > case the overnight trip turns into a multi-day trip.Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>(Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the rightside, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month)-----Original Message-----From: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: > Monday, December 22, 2008 3:54 PMTo: > aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>: RE: [AquaticLife] > pleco'sAmber don't get that pleco. If you want smaller plecos, then > look onaquabid.com. I even have some I'm going to start selling after > the holidays.I have baby bristle nose albino and browns. I have not > shipped fish yet, soI'm a little scared. I have shipped snails and > cherry shrimp though, so I dohave some knowledge of shipping. There > are many types of smaller plecos. Youdon't have to be stuck with > something you really don't want.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > : amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate><mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> > : Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:32:53-0900Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco'sOkay my > LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's > huge,*sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon > tank, and hopeit doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. > Right now it is mycommunity tank/semi aggressive until I get substrate > for my 55 gallon tankand move some fish and filters over there. I also > have to wait until my newfilter arrives in the mail, and the parts to > the eheim arrive. They havesome very small sailfin (for now small at > least) pleco's in the store and Icould get one for my big tank to help > with the algae build up that's beenappearing this weekend. I haven't > changed my lighting schedule and suddenlyI'm getting an algae build > up, which I guess is good in a way, except I haveno algae eating fish, > LOL. I also had to move some plants out of the tankbecause someone > (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting the smallerplants and/or > eating some of them. I need to find some hardier plants Iguess, they > leave the bigger ones alone.My question is this, should I waitto get > the pleco until I move the community fish into my 55 gallon becauseof > the added bioload or will he benefit enough by eating my algae for it > tobe okay? I'm hoping my Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered > it acouple weeks ago on ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) > so whoknows how long it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm > going to putthe filter on the 125 gallon for some added > filtration.Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34745	From: pam andress	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

Thats probably about right on the bristles. The albinos are easier to sex as the males have a pink spot behind their heads. Not sure if mine are big enough to see it though. I don't remember when you can see it. Personally if anyone wants to get some from me, I'm not sexing them and I always send extras of whatever I'm shipping. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: GoldLenny@...: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:43:20 -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco's I got a BN pleco as lagniappe with my first Cherry Shrimp order from aprivate seller online. The Cherry Shrimp and he did fine in the two dayshipping process but I think they shipped the little guy too early in hislife... he was only about 1/2" long... but I thought he was going to make itat first but he only lasted three days and died without any known cause. Upuntil that third day, he was eating algae, swimming around, etc. Shippingpleco's is no different than shipping any other fish or critters.I wonder why the breather bags would be an issue for plecos unless when theysuction to the bag, they might be able to breathe through the bag??? Iwouldn't think so due to the science involved in breathable bags but whoknows.A BN would be good for her tank size... the big question is does she want anugly nosed male or a "normal" female. I would want one of the ugly ducklingmales. lol I've read you can't tell the males from the females until around8-12 months.. well at least the bristles do not grow large enough on themales until that time. Is this accurate? How old are yours before thebristles start showing up on the males?Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com(Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the rightside, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)-----Original Message-----From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Monday, December 22, 2008 6:34 PMTo: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco'sLenny,I'm afraid to ship my plecos. Thats why I haven't started selling them yet.I know everyone that ships has to start somewhere and I have shipped mysnails and cherry shrimp, but PLECOS??? All of my animals are my babies andsince they where born here, they are so even more. They are my first plecosto breed. Right now I have 4 batches growing up and a male sitting on eggs.:) Most are browns, but I do have some albinos too and some are mixedparents. Sure I can post my aquabid name (ucdxmisty), but there are manypeople on aquabid that have much more experience shipping fish and maybe shedoesn't want BN's. I just hate seeing people stuck with something theyreally don't want.PamPS I don't have any breather bags and have been told to watch them withplecos. I also have other fish to sell too. lolTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : GoldLenny@...<mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> : Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:11:49 -0600Subject:RE: [AquaticLife] pleco'sPam,You should plug your Aquabid nickname while you're posting about it.;-)There's over 2,000 members in this group. Amber's issue is that she liveson Gilligan's Island (lol) somewhere inAlaska and the overnight companiesdon't pay attention to that wholeovernight rule in her neck of the woods. Ifyou are going to ship to her,make sure you pack the fish with enough heatpacks and get the breathablebags and use Prime or some other ammoniadetoxifier for water treatment justin case the overnight trip turns into amulti-day trip.Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in abovereply are listed on the rightside, alphabetically under Labels and alsounder Archives by Year, Month)-----Original Message-----From:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:54 PMTo:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject<mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> : RE: [AquaticLife]pleco'sAmber don't get that pleco. If you want smaller plecos, then lookonaquabid.com. I even have some I'm going to start selling after theholidays.I have baby bristle nose albino and browns. I have not shipped fishyet, soI'm a little scared. I have shipped snails and cherry shrimp though,so I dohave some knowledge of shipping. There are many types of smallerplecos. Youdon't have to be stuck with something you really don'twant.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : amber@...<mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> :Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:32:53-0900Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco'sOkay my LFS onlybuys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's huge,*sarcastic* yay). So Icould probably get 1 for my 125 gallon tank, and hopeit doesn't get huge andtry to eat any of my other fish. Right now it is mycommunity tank/semiaggressive until I get substrate for my 55 gallon tankand move some fish andfilters over there. I also have to wait until my newfilter arrives in themail, and the parts to the eheim arrive. They havesome very small sailfin(for now small at least) pleco's in the store and Icould get one for my bigtank to help with the algae build up that's beenappearing this weekend. Ihaven't changed my lighting schedule and suddenlyI'm getting an algae buildup, which I guess is good in a way, except I haveno algae eating fish, LOL.I also had to move some plants out of the tankbecause someone (I'm thinkingthe angel fish) are uprooting the smallerplants and/or eating some of them.I need to find some hardier plants Iguess, they leave the bigger onesalone.My question is this, should I waitto get the pleco until I move thecommunity fish into my 55 gallon becauseof the added bioload or will hebenefit enough by eating my algae for it tobe okay? I'm hoping my Aquaclear110 shows up this week, I ordered it acouple weeks ago on ebay and theyshipped it USPS (unfortunately) so whoknows how long it'll tank due to theweather in Seattle. I'm going to putthe filter on the 125 gallon for someadded filtration.Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34746	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

It may have a negligible effect, since the salt concentration to recharge the zeolite is much higher than what you ever had in your tank. I'll bet that once the ammonia and nitrite are under control, most of your problems will go away. Then, when you get a larger tank, the rest of them will pretty much disappear. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wouldn't the salt in the water negate the zeolite? I'm almost down to 1tsp/G. It'll be > another day or two before the level is negligible. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 6:01 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Red streaking in goldfish fins generally mean issues with nitrogenous > wastes. Looking back, I do note that you do have readings for both > ammonia and nitrites. In your situation, it may be wise to consider the > use of an ammonia gulping zeolite as is being discussed elsewhere on the > list. > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 12:55 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Sunday night Check in (Day 20 of Salt - Day 5 of reducing it) > > > > - 3G PWC @ noon > > - 3G PWC @ midnight (salt down to 1.2tsp/G) > > - CB is eating a bit better and is actually moving around and > foraging today - there must have > > still been some osmotic issues in addition to the pour appetite from > the parasites, or else she > > finally decided to sample the pea meat. > > - Lucille has some red streaks on the top of her fantail at the ends. > Could this be from > > reducing the salt or is it something I should worry about? > > - Raven is getting to be a pest having to be right there any time I > do something that requires > > getting the fish out of the way. "Whaa-cha-doooo-in'?" > > > > > > Yes, the previous owner was rather nocturnal and I tend to be a > night person, too, so it > > works out, I guess. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:34 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > No. Goldfish are not nocturnal. Maybe the previous owner used to > feed them > > right after lights out or something so they have Pavlovian > conditioning to > > start looking for food after lights out. Check with the previous > owner. If > > it's Pavlovian, they will slowly learn that you don't feed after > lights out > > and they'll start to change their habits. I'm guessing that the > external > > environment probably changes a little when the tank lights are out > so things > > look different to them so maybe they get a little more interested in > what's > > going on in the room. > > > > A few years ago, we had this discussion in a forum about whether the > fish > > can see as well out of their tank when the tank's lights are on. > For > > example, if you are in your home and it's darker outside than > inside, the > > glass forms a mirror effect so you can't really see outside very > well. If > > you turn off the lights inside, then you can see outside much > better. I'm > > not sure if this same effect happens when the water is directly > against the > > glass. I do know that when looking at the side panels of the tank > at an > > angle from the front glass, they become mirrors of the back of the > tank when > > the tank lights are on but when the tank lights are off, if you look > from > > the front of the tank through the side panels, you can see through > them > > rather than get the mirror effect. > > > > I used to scuba dive in my younger years and volunteered in our > public > > aquarium and remember being able to see the people outside the tank > but I > > also remember some mirror effect. I know my fish can see me when > I'm in the > > room as they will stalk me for food.. lol.. but I still think they > can see > > even better when their tank lights are off and the room lights are > on, > > compared to when the tank lights are on and the room lights are off. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 19 of Salt - Day 4 of reduced salt) > > > > - 3G PWC @ midnight (I didn't return any salt, so it's down to > 1.73tsp/G. I > > figure I can add it back if Ray tells me to keep it at 2tsp/G to > slow the > > fungus) > > - CB ate a little this evening - Tetra flake - it's all she'll touch > > > > Are goldfish nocturnal? They seem to be more active, at least for a > while, > > after I turn off the lamp at night. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:21 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I > don't ask > > them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in > the store. > > There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer > > sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little > place and I > > doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was > anything that > > most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't > arrive today. > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. > I was > > just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for > flakes > > tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever > > happened to fall nearby. > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray > had said > > it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to > make sure > > the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that > the > > Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering > the salt > > to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the > fungus to > > get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I > > CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for > today. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else > without > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential > for > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and > it's also > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or > so just > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system > disorders.. > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few > days which > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? > And > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this > last > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the > meds. > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too > much meds. > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just > fresh > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest > between > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh > air for > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that > are > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the > PWC's will > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > 2.08tsp/G) > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra > flakes, > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs > will > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. > If it > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that > might help > > until Monday? > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a > tiny > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding > anything to > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to > the 20G. > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the > previous > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these > three > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the > wax. > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a > bit > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains > to be > > seen. > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the > fish before > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the > Christmas > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care > about > > that. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due > to > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully > she'll > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it > wasn't > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same > size > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is > growing > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, > they > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and > I don't > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > goldfish in the > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What > size > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been > in from > > the beginning? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; > Nitrite: > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the > last PWC. > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay > until I > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing > occasionally > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived > about 3 > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go > down to > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt > Levels" for > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there > isn't > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after > exertion > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the > head, > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating > and > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not > eating at > > the time. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle > nearly > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > ammonia/nitrite > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying > bacteria > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you > should > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep > nitrates > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) > of > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down > to > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring > the > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% > down to > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). > You will > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G > PWC's, > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of > those, you > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer > be > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow > gulping > > motion? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably > what > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and > today's > > PWC) > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that > choking > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > > (depending on lighting) > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34747	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: OT: unsub from grouply

If your friend is having problems with the invites, the links (note the plural) are at the bottom of the e-mail. One is to block the one person, the other is to block all. There is also a third link, but the result of using it does not come to mind at the moment. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Darlene > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: unsub from grouply > > could you please repost the link to unsub from grouply your email addys? > my friend has lots of trouble with them > i won't go near them with a 10 foot pole ! > > Darlene > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34748	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: I have just one thing to say

AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . -HUFF- . -huff- . . ...................... sigh....................... . . whimper . . I want my mommy . . I now return you to your regularly scheduled fish talk DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34749	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

Thanks Pam, I'm definately interested in at least 3 of them in the future (one for the 55 gallon and 2 for the big tank, maybe 3, hehe). I will keep you posted :) Amber pam andress wrote: > > > Well Amber if you want some of mine, just let me know when a good time > would be to ship and we can make a deal. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate>: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:33:11 > -0900Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pleco's > > Honestly I would take what I could get if they were healthy and > shipped right. I have my own fed ex account so you wouldn't have to > worry about anything except putting my account number in for the > billing information ;) I don't know anything about shipping fish > though so I will have to wait till I have more confidence in it ;) For > one thing right now is a very bad time to ship anything, LOL. Perhaps > later this winter or early spring. Considering the prices on the > smaller pleco's I think bushy nose pleco's might be the better way to > go, all the other's (on this site at least) seem higher priced from > what I can see (except the candy stripe pleco which is currently on > sale on liveaquaria.com, heh).Amberpam andress wrote:>>> Lenny,>> I'm > afraid to ship my plecos. Thats why I haven't started selling them > > yet. I know everyone that ships has to start somewhere and I have > > shipped my snails and cherry shrimp, but PLECOS??? All of my animals > > are my babies and since they where born here, they are so even more. > > They are my first plecos to breed. Right now I have 4 batches growing > > up and a male sitting on eggs. :) Most are browns, but I do have > some > albinos too and some are mixed parents. Sure I can post my > aquabid > name (ucdxmisty), but there are many people on aquabid that > have much > more experience shipping fish and maybe she doesn't want > BN's. I just > hate seeing people stuck with something they really > don't want.>> Pam> PS I don't have any breather bags and have been > told to watch them > with plecos. I also have other fish to sell too. > lol>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:11:49 > > -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco's>> Pam,You should plug your > Aquabid nickname while you're posting about > it. ;-)There's over > 2,000 members in this group. Amber's issue is that > she lives on > Gilligan's Island (lol) somewhere inAlaska and the > overnight > companies don't pay attention to that wholeovernight rule in > her > neck of the woods. If you are going to ship to her,make sure you > > pack the fish with enough heat packs and get the breathablebags and > > use Prime or some other ammonia detoxifier for water treatment justin > > case the overnight trip turns into a multi-day trip.Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>(Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the rightside, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month)-----Original Message-----From: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: > > Monday, December 22, 2008 3:54 PMTo: > > aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>: RE: [AquaticLife] > > pleco'sAmber don't get that pleco. If you want smaller plecos, then > > look onaquabid.com. I even have some I'm going to start selling after > > the holidays.I have baby bristle nose albino and browns. I have not > > shipped fish yet, soI'm a little scared. I have shipped snails and > > cherry shrimp though, so I dohave some knowledge of shipping. There > > are many types of smaller plecos. Youdon't have to be stuck with > > something you really don't want.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > > : amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate><mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> > > : Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:32:53-0900Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco'sOkay > my > LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's > > huge,*sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon > > tank, and hopeit doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. > > Right now it is mycommunity tank/semi aggressive until I get > substrate > for my 55 gallon tankand move some fish and filters over > there. I also > have to wait until my newfilter arrives in the mail, > and the parts to > the eheim arrive. They havesome very small sailfin > (for now small at > least) pleco's in the store and Icould get one for > my big tank to help > with the algae build up that's beenappearing > this weekend. I haven't > changed my lighting schedule and suddenlyI'm > getting an algae build > up, which I guess is good in a way, except I > haveno algae eating fish, > LOL. I also had to move some plants out of > the tankbecause someone > (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting > the smallerplants and/or > eating some of them. I need to find some > hardier plants Iguess, they > leave the bigger ones alone.My question > is this, should I waitto get > the pleco until I move the community > fish into my 55 gallon becauseof > the added bioload or will he > benefit enough by eating my algae for it > tobe okay? I'm hoping my > Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered > it acouple weeks ago on > ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) > so whoknows how long > it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm > going to putthe filter > on the 125 gallon for some added > filtration.Amber [Non-text portions > of this message have been removed]>> [Non-text portions of this > message have been removed]>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34750	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has trouble with osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess if they both get worse I'll have to separate one out. The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on the Acriflavin. Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the salt level and how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%20Chemistry/ scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets the ammonia and nitrate down. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (I really do want my mommy, now) -------------message inserted for continuity------------- Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing it) Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the PWC. The salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it yesterday just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting on the bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is the stronger and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get worse, I'll leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite lower. Will the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower this?); Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline hadn't been zero, I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 - 3G PWC @ 1pm DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) -------------End of message inserted for continuity------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on doing a follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want to address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, which I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of your more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around noon on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly (I don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote you a long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 seconds away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here was pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame my lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), but I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts to feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct any constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of the problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem here. It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). On the salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content was at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon that day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended on holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on any PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that day). Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing when your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you REPLACED 1 tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided not to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a 2 tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another PWC since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less than that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing the salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out any more salt than this. For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely mild and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope all fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post of mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as it contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which might get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said the salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day of clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the PraziPro. The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least nothing near as good that would help with their type of internal parasite issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay to start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will have to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and nitrite (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these levels remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these nitrogenous wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to your fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, you can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these levels down. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else without > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the potential for > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... and it's also > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week or so just > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system disorders.. > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few days which > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn 2? And > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to this last > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of the meds. > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too much meds. > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of just fresh > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest between > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh air for > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds that are > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the PWC's will > slowly reduce the salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now 2.08tsp/G) > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra flakes, > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the carbs will > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to work. If it > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that might help > until Monday? > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. There's a tiny > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding anything to > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here to the 20G. > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the previous > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these three > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the wax. > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a bit > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, remains to be > seen. > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the fish before > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the Christmas > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even care about > that. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention due to > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, hopefully she'll > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so it wasn't > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or same size > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she is growing > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. Hopefully, they > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there and I don't > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three goldfish in the > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) What size > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have been in from > the beginning? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; Nitrite: > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the last PWC. > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at bay until I > can treat with the PraziPro. > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing occasionally > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they arrived about 3 > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go down to > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt Levels" for > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since there isn't > really 20G in the tank right now. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/> > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after exertion > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of the head, > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is eating and > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not eating at > the time. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen cycle nearly > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the ammonia/nitrite > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying bacteria > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so you should > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to keep nitrates > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) of > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it down to > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll bring the > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% down to > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new number). You will > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the 3G PWC's, > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of those, you > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no longer be > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > osmoregulatory issues. > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow gulping > motion? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's probably what > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly over .25ppm; > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and today's > PWC) > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and that choking > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Raymond Wetzel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. When > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and especially > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be reduced. > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form of > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start treating > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and will > act in the manner you're describing. > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your not > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed your > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more frequent > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want to > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > (depending on lighting) > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have been. > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing this. > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets from > the Tetra flakes? > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty much > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not sure > how much more CB can take. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since Jungles > Fungus Clear added): > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent most > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when Raven > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner for a > bit. > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > - PWC 11pm > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity--- -- > ---------------- > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms up > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could have > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped fins > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are doing. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----------------------End inserted message--------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > column, it > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > bladders, as > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > would > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > being a > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > bacterial. > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > Hexamita, > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > and > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > they > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > they > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > infections > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > impossible > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > microscope). > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > clearing up > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > medications > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > Since > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > the > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > fungus > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > (unless you > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > shipped > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > another 4 > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > should > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > normal > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > an > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > remove it. > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > treatment > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > in > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > the > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > find > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > contact > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > (treats > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > $32.74 > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > effective as > > of 12/10/08. > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > mention for > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > a > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > can use > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > pond > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > priced > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > that's > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > One > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > Tabs) or > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > Both > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > for > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > little > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > also > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > source > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > Jungles > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > bottom > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > choice, > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > too > > much. > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > some is > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > see > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > food > > to Omega One pellets) > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > not > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > has > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > most > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > shiny, > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > probably > > a sign of healing? > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > is set > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > scraped > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > concerned > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > related > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > instructions > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > a 25% > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > put the > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > before we > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > sales. > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > stripped > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > slate- > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > what I'd > > do without you guys. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > as > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > discouraging. > > If, by > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > surface > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > glass > > in > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > at the > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > not > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > by the > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > bouyed > > up at > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > bladders > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > choice > > rather > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > possible > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > on > > their > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > and > > is > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > being > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > written > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > and > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > something > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > temperature? > > Are > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > apparent? > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > you > > have > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > extent as > > to > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > may > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > the > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > up to > > 55 > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > them. > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > as > > again > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > support) > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > bond/seal > > between > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > yet > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > and > > Lenny > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > joints, > > you > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > choice) > > in re- > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > environment > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > reptile > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > to be > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > fish > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > elevated > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > all > > the medical > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > in > > the hospital > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > to be > > absorbed > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > out > > by their > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > which > > is > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > at the > > surface, > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > return. The > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > All > > the agitation > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > there > > is more gas > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > waves. > > The up/down > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > of a > > tank > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > since they > > do not > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > I > > guess if it was > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > removing all the > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > a > > price. I've > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > that > > used to have > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > year. > > Tell them > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > to > > about $25.00. > > > ;-) > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > that > > shouldn't > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > plastic > > of the same > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > sure > > the front > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > someone > > removed that > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > where > > the glass had > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > over 400 > > pounds of > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > let me > > know. I > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > side > > under Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > Fungus > > Clear. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > Jungle > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > bottom. > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > (do > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > CB > > also > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > there. > > And > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > up > > every > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > problem > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > wouldn't they > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > the > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > Nitrate: > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > Craigslist > > for > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > resealing, > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > out > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > the > > plastic > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > accept a > > fish > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > I see > > that > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > this > > tank > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > see > > how I > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > boxes to > > see > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > only 18G > > of > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > more > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > returned 3G > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > 3G, but > > only > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > removing > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > of > > water > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > nitrite > > levels > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > than". > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > kit a > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > anywhere. > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > dragging. > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > Clear > > starts > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > there's > > only > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > bit > > won't > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > from > > his > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this > subject, I > > find > > > the > > > > need to question your present salt content and your > methods > > > with > > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these > levels -- > > only > > > if to > > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to > see > > > that "Carol > > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has > improved > > > even > > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to > be > > quite > > > as well > > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will > not > > see > > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > > recuperating. > > > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it > was at > > 3.7 > > > tsp > > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > > changes > > > since. > > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would > have > > > reduced > > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > > gallon. > > > If > > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, > this > > would > > > now > > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% > PWC's > > > since last > > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm > now > > > wondering if > > > > even that level was correct in your method of > figuring. > > Maybe > > > you > > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would > seem that > > > your > > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > > especially > > > with > > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning > these > > results > > > as > > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips > (which > > can > > > often > > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether > the > > > reagents may > > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > > Jungles' > > > Fungus > > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit > still > > not > > > as > > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately > 3.4tsp/G > > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs > since > > > yesterday's > > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: > <.25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue > what it > > is. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that > part and > > > missed it > > > > in > > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your > source > > > water is > > > > not > > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that > is not > > as > > > > injurious > > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. > While > > we > > > strive > > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as > we > > can), > > > there is > > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most > fish as > > > that's > > > > still > > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm > shows > > your > > > tank > > > > is > > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or > more > > > frequent > > > > PWC's > > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > > straightened out > > > > you > > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at > least > > ones > > > that the > > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind > adding some > > to > > > their > > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part > of > > their > > > food, > > > > and > > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as > part > > of > > > their > > > > diet > > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- > term if > > you > > > add > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > > medications > > > to > > > > water > > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest > changing > > out > > > enough > > > > water > > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per > gallon. > > > You're not > > > > too > > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may > not > > make > > > that > > > > much > > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful > minimum > > of 3 > > > tsp > > > > per > > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > > tolerable > > > > range. > > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of > salt, > > > even > > > > though > > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended > for them > > on > > > some > > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish > is > > > approaching, > > > > if > > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt > levels. > > > Cyprinidae > > > > are > > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > > toleration -- > > > they > > > > can > > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add > medications > > > while > > > > there > > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as > some > > > medications > > > > (and > > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) > contain > > salt as > > > part > > > > of > > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you > may > > add > > > > additional > > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- > checking this > > > factor > > > > will > > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level > during > > > > treatments. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the > zeros were > > > baseline > > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank > seems to > > be > > > cycling > > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as > that > > likes > > > to > > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I > also > > asked > > > my dd > > > > and > > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my > memory > > that > > > was > > > > off. > > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and > lowering the > > > saline > > > > with > > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > > 3.7tsp/G > > > in the > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before > using > > one > > > of > > > > the > > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting > more > > > normal > > > > today, > > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank > at the > > > moment. I > > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding > further > > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a > fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' > plight > > now > > > for a > > > > > number of > > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment > would > > > eliminate this > > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and > undoubtedly > > did > > > to > > > > some > > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these > fish's > > health > > > in > > > > their > > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to > go in > > > reverse, > > > > it > > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, > at > > least > > > to me > > > > > (unless > > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > > capacity > > > at 20 > > > > > gallons > > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd > has > > come up > > > with > > > > 30 > > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, > perhaps > > > you'd > > > > like to > > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are > so > > that > > > we can > > > > get > > > > > a > > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time > you > > had 90 > > > tsp > > > > of > > > > > salt > > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, > that > > would > > > equate > > > > to 4 > > > > > 1/2 > > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than > 0.3% > > of > > > salt in > > > > > their > > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to > 2.4 tsp > > per > > > > gallon > > > > > (not 3 > > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can > tolerate > > more > > > I > > > > felt it > > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the > time > > (note: > > > this > > > > > measure > > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all > fish do > > have > > > their > > > > > limits > > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and > some > > > Cichlids > > > > > seeming to > > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish > (Cory's, > > etc.) > > > > having > > > > > the > > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish > included) > > being > > > > somewhere in > > > > > the > > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > > establish > > > just > > > > what > > > > > your > > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, > it > > could > > > act > > > > > adversely > > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing > further > > > advancement of > > > > the > > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level > of sale > > > affecting > > > > > your > > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live > plants. I > > know > > > this > > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for > the > > benefit > > > of > > > > other > > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the > tank > > is > > > done > > > > > gradually > > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most > aquatic > > plants > > > will > > > > > tolerate > > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; > Cabomba, > > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > > readings > > > of > > > > several > > > > > days > > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to > 0.5 ppm > > and > > > both > > > > your > > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm > (indicating > > your > > > cycle > > > > > suddenly > > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the > next > > day > > > your > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm > and > > your > > > > nitrate > > > > > was > > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to > 0.25 > > ppm). > > > A > > > > > discrepency > > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of > erroneous > > test > > > result > > > > (or > > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing > the > > issue, > > > I'd > > > > suggest > > > > > you > > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest > this > > > disease. > > > > > Those > > > > > > medications would include any of the > following: > > > A.P.I.'s > > > > Furan > > > > > II, > > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's > Fungus > > Clear > > > Tank > > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and > Furadolazone as > > their > > > main > > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the > Rid- > > > Ich/Malachite > > > > > Green > > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, > but not > > > all, > > > > Fungal > > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is > acting > > > somewhat > > > > weak > > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming > with > > Lucille > > > and > > > > > generally > > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > > watching > > > the > > > > what we > > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > > hasn't > > > improved > > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one > side > > and > > > seems > > > > to be > > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas > at the > > > base of > > > > her > > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of > them, > > > because CB > > > > seems > > > > > a > > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra > food > > they're > > > > getting I > > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so > save > > your > > > money > > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > bigger > > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > > lowering > > > the > > > > water a > > > > > > little (or > > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water > fall > > to > > > create > > > > > enough > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > > exchange. > > > That > > > > and > > > > > live > > > > > > plants are > > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up > and the > > CO2 > > > levels > > > > > down. > > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > > Hopefully > > > Raven > > > > will > > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > > around soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above > listed on > > the > > > right > > > > side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:06 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 7 of salt > treatment) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 15ppm > > > > > > > (not as deep orange as yesterday's > reading, and > > I > > > didn't > > > > do a > > > > > PWC > > > > > > yesterday) > > > > > > > - Raven still acting the same - I lowered > the > > water > > > level > > > > so > > > > > I > > > > > > can see > > > > > > > bubbles in the filter water returning to > the > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'll go get some dechlor for future > water > > > changes. I'll > > > > > look > > > > > > into an > > > > > > > airstone, also. Don't know if it's on the > > budget > > > right > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34751	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's/Lenny

A one hour trip is nothing. Online stores and individual sellers ship fish in bags around the world where they stay in the bags up to a couple of days. Just tell the store that you will be traveling for an hour and bring a small ice chest or a box with newspaper for padding/insulation and pack it in the store before going back outside/to your car. Keep your car's interior temp similar to the temp of the water. You don't want to bring a small bag of water out into the winter weather (or summer weather down here in my neck of the woods) as the temperature of the water will change too quickly. You also do not want the car's heater blowing on the bag as that could overheat it quickly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pleco's/Lenny Clown Pleco for $3.50 a couple of months ago. i saw a clown pleco in my LPS and they wanted 24.99$ for it !!!!! and it was only about 2 inches long !!!! how hard is it to transport fish in a car, say a one hour trip ??? Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34752	From: pam andress	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's

No problem. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: amber@...: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:53:22 -0900Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pleco's Thanks Pam, I'm definately interested in at least 3 of them in the future (one for the 55 gallon and 2 for the big tank, maybe 3, hehe). I will keep you posted :)Amberpam andress wrote:>>> Well Amber if you want some of mine, just let me know when a good time > would be to ship and we can make a deal.>> Pam>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate>: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:33:11 > -0900Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pleco's>> Honestly I would take what I could get if they were healthy and > shipped right. I have my own fed ex account so you wouldn't have to > worry about anything except putting my account number in for the > billing information ;) I don't know anything about shipping fish > though so I will have to wait till I have more confidence in it ;) For > one thing right now is a very bad time to ship anything, LOL. Perhaps > later this winter or early spring. Considering the prices on the > smaller pleco's I think bushy nose pleco's might be the better way to > go, all the other's (on this site at least) seem higher priced from > what I can see (except the candy stripe pleco which is currently on > sale on liveaquaria.com, heh).Amberpam andress wrote:>>> Lenny,>> I'm > afraid to ship my plecos. Thats why I haven't started selling them > > yet. I know everyone that ships has to start somewhere and I have > > shipped my snails and cherry shrimp, but PLECOS??? All of my animals > > are my babies and since they where born here, they are so even more. > > They are my first plecos to breed. Right now I have 4 batches growing > > up and a male sitting on eggs. :) Most are browns, but I do have > some > albinos too and some are mixed parents. Sure I can post my > aquabid > name (ucdxmisty), but there are many people on aquabid that > have much > more experience shipping fish and maybe she doesn't want > BN's. I just > hate seeing people stuck with something they really > don't want.>> Pam> PS I don't have any breather bags and have been > told to watch them > with plecos. I also have other fish to sell too. > lol>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.comDate>: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:11:49 > > -0600Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pleco's>> Pam,You should plug your > Aquabid nickname while you're posting about > it. ;-)There's over > 2,000 members in this group. Amber's issue is that > she lives on > Gilligan's Island (lol) somewhere inAlaska and the > overnight > companies don't pay attention to that wholeovernight rule in > her > neck of the woods. If you are going to ship to her,make sure you > > pack the fish with enough heat packs and get the breathablebags and > > use Prime or some other ammonia detoxifier for water treatment justin > > case the overnight trip turns into a multi-day trip.Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>(Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the rightside, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month)-----Original Message-----From: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] OnBehalf Of pam andressSent: > > Monday, December 22, 2008 3:54 PMTo: > > aquaticlife@yahoogroups.comSubject > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>: RE: [AquaticLife] > > pleco'sAmber don't get that pleco. If you want smaller plecos, then > > look onaquabid.com. I even have some I'm going to start selling after > > the holidays.I have baby bristle nose albino and browns. I have not > > shipped fish yet, soI'm a little scared. I have shipped snails and > > cherry shrimp though, so I dohave some knowledge of shipping. There > > are many types of smaller plecos. Youdon't have to be stuck with > > something you really don't want.PamTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> > > : amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate><mailto:amber%40rose-fields.comDate> > > : Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:32:53-0900Subject: [AquaticLife] pleco'sOkay > my > LFS only buys one kind of pleco, the sailfin (which get's > > huge,*sarcastic* yay). So I could probably get 1 for my 125 gallon > > tank, and hopeit doesn't get huge and try to eat any of my other fish. > > Right now it is mycommunity tank/semi aggressive until I get > substrate > for my 55 gallon tankand move some fish and filters over > there. I also > have to wait until my newfilter arrives in the mail, > and the parts to > the eheim arrive. They havesome very small sailfin > (for now small at > least) pleco's in the store and Icould get one for > my big tank to help > with the algae build up that's beenappearing > this weekend. I haven't > changed my lighting schedule and suddenlyI'm > getting an algae build > up, which I guess is good in a way, except I > haveno algae eating fish, > LOL. I also had to move some plants out of > the tankbecause someone > (I'm thinking the angel fish) are uprooting > the smallerplants and/or > eating some of them. I need to find some > hardier plants Iguess, they > leave the bigger ones alone.My question > is this, should I waitto get > the pleco until I move the community > fish into my 55 gallon becauseof > the added bioload or will he > benefit enough by eating my algae for it > tobe okay? I'm hoping my > Aquaclear 110 shows up this week, I ordered > it acouple weeks ago on > ebay and they shipped it USPS (unfortunately) > so whoknows how long > it'll tank due to the weather in Seattle. I'm > going to putthe filter > on the 125 gallon for some added > filtration.Amber [Non-text portions > of this message have been removed]>> [Non-text portions of this > message have been removed]>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34753	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: OT: unsub from grouply

If your friend is having problems with the invites, the links (note the plural) are at the bottom of the e-mail. One is to block the one person, the other is to block all. There is also a third link, but the result of using it does not come to mind at the moment. her problem is they somehow got hold of her email addresses & now everything she posts/emails to everyone ends up on the grouply web site. she has never joined grouply so does not understand how they got her email addresses in the first place..... or how to stop it she was told she has to unsub ............ how do you unsub when you never joined in the first place ???? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34754	From: Darlene	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: pleco's/Lenny

i think i will be getting my fish supplies and my fish in the states unless i can find a breeder around here who sells for much less than the LPS :))) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34755	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?

My Angelfish has a white spot just before his top fin. He is a deep black and this spot really stands out. its looks like a bite mark but I dont have any other agressive fish in the tank(a cherry barb, a female swordtail, a mini silver dollar??? 3 blue gouramis which have been in the tank for about 5 months now and are supposed to be non agressive all in a 55 gallon). Its not Ich but I have him in an isolation tank w/ Melefix. Its now turning a reddish color..healing? This happened after I added a couple of plastic rock ornaments and fake plants. My question is did the gouramis all of a sudden become territorial with the addition of new plants and rocks or could he have bumped himself on an ornament. Both rocks and tall plants are on either side of the tank so the middle is open with a couple of 2-3" plants because his finspan? from top to bottom is about 6". Any ideas? Thanks Tom P.S. Thanks for everyones help over the past few months. I appreciate it and my fish appreciate it!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34756	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one less thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if the septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the token recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 Gallons when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, like Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in your water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel Sheet for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can avoid it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change (and the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of your fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise get rough on your fish. There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I had forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I hate losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least address the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product being the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless ammonium which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This should help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to avoid osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing out water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce your nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your cycle should be near complete. In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more understandable when you say you added salt while at the same time reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 tsp/G of salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know you've since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the salt went each time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has trouble with > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess if they both > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on the Acriflavin. > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the salt level and > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets the ammonia > and nitrate down. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing it) > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the PWC. The > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it yesterday > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting on the > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is the stronger > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get worse, I'll > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite lower. Will > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower this?); > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline hadn't been zero, > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on doing a > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want to > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, which > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of your > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around noon > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly (I > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote you a > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 seconds > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here was > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame my > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), but > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts to > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct any > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of the > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem here. > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). On the > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content was > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon that > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended on > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on any > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that > day). > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing when > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you REPLACED 1 > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided not > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a 2 > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another PWC > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less than > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing the > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out any > more salt than this. > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely mild > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope all > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post of > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as it > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which might > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said the > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day of > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the PraziPro. > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least nothing > near as good that would help with their type of internal parasite > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay to > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will have > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and nitrite > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these levels > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these nitrogenous > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to your > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, you > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these levels > down. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else > without > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > potential for > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... > and it's also > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week > or so just > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system > disorders.. > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few > days which > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn > 2? And > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to > this last > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of > the meds. > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too > much meds. > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of > just fresh > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest > between > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh > air for > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds > that are > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the > PWC's will > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > 2.08tsp/G) > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra > flakes, > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the > carbs will > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to > work. If it > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that > might help > > until Monday? > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > There's a tiny > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding > anything to > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here > to the 20G. > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the > previous > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these > three > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the > wax. > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a > bit > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, > remains to be > > seen. > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the > fish before > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the > Christmas > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even > care about > > that. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention > due to > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > hopefully she'll > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so > it wasn't > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or > same size > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she > is growing > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > Hopefully, they > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there > and I don't > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > goldfish in the > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) > What size > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have > been in from > > the beginning? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; > Nitrite: > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the > last PWC. > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at > bay until I > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing > occasionally > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they > arrived about 3 > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go > down to > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt > Levels" for > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since > there isn't > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after > exertion > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of > the head, > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is > eating and > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not > eating at > > the time. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen > cycle nearly > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > ammonia/nitrite > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying > bacteria > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so > you should > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to > keep nitrates > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon) of > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it > down to > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll > bring the > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% > down to > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > number). You will > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the > 3G PWC's, > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of > those, you > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no > longer be > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow > gulping > > motion? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > probably what > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > over .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and > today's > > PWC) > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and > that choking > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. > When > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > especially > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > reduced. > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form > of > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > treating > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and > will > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your > not > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed > your > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more > frequent > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want > to > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > > (depending on lighting) > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have > been. > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing > this. > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets > from > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty > much > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not > sure > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > Jungles > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent > most > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when > Raven > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner > for a > > bit. > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity- -- > -- > > ---------------- > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms > up > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could > have > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped > fins > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are > doing. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----------------------End inserted message-------------------- - > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > > column, it > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > bladders, as > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > > would > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > > being a > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > bacterial. > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > > Hexamita, > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > > and > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > > they > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > > they > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > infections > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > impossible > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > microscope). > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > clearing up > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > medications > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > > Since > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > > the > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > > fungus > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > > (unless you > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > > shipped > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > another 4 > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > > should > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > > normal > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > > an > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > > remove it. > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > > treatment > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > > in > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > > the > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > > find > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > > contact > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > > (treats > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > > $32.74 > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > effective as > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > mention for > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > > a > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > > can use > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > > pond > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > > priced > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > > that's > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > > One > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > > Tabs) or > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > > Both > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > > for > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > > little > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > > also > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > > source > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > > Jungles > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > > bottom > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > > choice, > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > > too > > > much. > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > > some is > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > > see > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > > food > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > > not > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > > has > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > > most > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > > shiny, > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > > probably > > > a sign of healing? > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > > is set > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > > scraped > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > concerned > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > > related > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > instructions > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > > a 25% > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > > put the > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > before we > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > > sales. > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > > stripped > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > > slate- > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > > what I'd > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > > as > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > discouraging. > > > If, by > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > > surface > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > > glass > > > in > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > > at the > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > > not > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > > by the > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > > bouyed > > > up at > > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > > bladders > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > > choice > > > rather > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > possible > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > > on > > > their > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > > and > > > is > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > > being > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > > written > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > > and > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > > something > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > temperature? > > > Are > > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > > you > > > have > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > extent as > > > to > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > > may > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > > the > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > > up to > > > 55 > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > > them. > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > > as > > > again > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > > support) > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > bond/seal > > > between > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > > yet > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > > and > > > Lenny > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > > joints, > > > you > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > > choice) > > > in re- > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > > environment > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > > reptile > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > > to be > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > > fish > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > > elevated > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > > all > > > the medical > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > > in > > > the hospital > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > > to be > > > absorbed > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > > out > > > by their > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > > which > > > is > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > > at the > > > surface, > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > > return. The > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > > All > > > the agitation > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > > there > > > is more gas > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > waves. > > > The up/down > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > > of a > > > tank > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > since they > > > do not > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > > I > > > guess if it was > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > > removing all the > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > > a > > > price. I've > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > > that > > > used to have > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > > year. > > > Tell them > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > > to > > > about $25.00. > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > > that > > > shouldn't > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > > plastic > > > of the same > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > > sure > > > the front > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > someone > > > removed that > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > > where > > > the glass had > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > over 400 > > > pounds of > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > > let me > > > know. I > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > Fungus > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > > Jungle > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > > bottom. > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > > (do > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > > CB > > > also > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > > there. > > > And > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > > up > > > every > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > > problem > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > wouldn't they > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > > the > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > Craigslist > > > for > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > resealing, > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > > out > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > > the > > > plastic > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > > accept a > > > fish > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > I see > > > that > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > > this > > > tank > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > > see > > > how I > > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > > boxes to > > > see > > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > > only 18G > > > of > > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > > more > > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > > returned 3G > > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > > 3G, but > > > only > > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > > removing > > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > > of > > > water > > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > > nitrite > > > levels > > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > > than". > > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > > kit a > > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > > anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > > dragging. > > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > > Clear > > > starts > > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > > there's > > > only > > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > > bit > > > won't > > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > > from > > > his > > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this > > subject, I > > > find > > > > the > > > > > need to question your present salt content and your > > methods > > > > with > > > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these > > levels -- > > > only > > > > if to > > > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to > > see > > > > that "Carol > > > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has > > improved > > > > even > > > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to > > be > > > quite > > > > as well > > > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will > > not > > > see > > > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > > > recuperating. > > > > > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it > > was at > > > 3.7 > > > > tsp > > > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > > > changes > > > > since. > > > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would > > have > > > > reduced > > > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > > > gallon. > > > > If > > > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, > > this > > > would > > > > now > > > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% > > PWC's > > > > since last > > > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm > > now > > > > wondering if > > > > > even that level was correct in your method of > > figuring. > > > Maybe > > > > you > > > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would > > seem that > > > > your > > > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > > > especially > > > > with > > > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning > > these > > > results > > > > as > > > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips > > (which > > > can > > > > often > > > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether > > the > > > > reagents may > > > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > > > Jungles' > > > > Fungus > > > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit > > still > > > not > > > > as > > > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately > > 3.4tsp/G > > > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs > > since > > > > yesterday's > > > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: > > <.25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue > > what it > > > is. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that > > part and > > > > missed it > > > > > in > > > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your > > source > > > > water is > > > > > not > > > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that > > is not > > > as > > > > > injurious > > > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. > > While > > > we > > > > strive > > > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as > > we > > > can), > > > > there is > > > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most > > fish as > > > > that's > > > > > still > > > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm > > shows > > > your > > > > tank > > > > > is > > > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or > > more > > > > frequent > > > > > PWC's > > > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > > > straightened out > > > > > you > > > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at > > least > > > ones > > > > that the > > > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind > > adding some > > > to > > > > their > > > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part > > of > > > their > > > > food, > > > > > and > > > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as > > part > > > of > > > > their > > > > > diet > > > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- > > term if > > > you > > > > add > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > > > medications > > > > to > > > > > water > > > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest > > changing > > > out > > > > enough > > > > > water > > > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per > > gallon. > > > > You're not > > > > > too > > > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may > > not > > > make > > > > that > > > > > much > > > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful > > minimum > > > of 3 > > > > tsp > > > > > per > > > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > > > tolerable > > > > > range. > > > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of > > salt, > > > > even > > > > > though > > > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended > > for them > > > on > > > > some > > > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish > > is > > > > approaching, > > > > > if > > > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt > > levels. > > > > Cyprinidae > > > > > are > > > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > > > toleration -- > > > > they > > > > > can > > > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add > > medications > > > > while > > > > > there > > > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as > > some > > > > medications > > > > > (and > > > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) > > contain > > > salt as > > > > part > > > > > of > > > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you > > may > > > add > > > > > additional > > > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- > > checking this > > > > factor > > > > > will > > > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level > > during > > > > > treatments. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the > > zeros were > > > > baseline > > > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank > > seems to > > > be > > > > cycling > > > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as > > that > > > likes > > > > to > > > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I > > also > > > asked > > > > my dd > > > > > and > > > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my > > memory > > > that > > > > was > > > > > off. > > > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and > > lowering the > > > > saline > > > > > with > > > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > > > 3.7tsp/G > > > > in the > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before > > using > > > one > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting > > more > > > > normal > > > > > today, > > > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank > > at the > > > > moment. I > > > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding > > further > > > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a > > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' > > plight > > > now > > > > for a > > > > > > number of > > > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment > > would > > > > eliminate this > > > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and > > undoubtedly > > > did > > > > to > > > > > some > > > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these > > fish's > > > health > > > > in > > > > > their > > > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to > > go in > > > > reverse, > > > > > it > > > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, > > at > > > least > > > > to me > > > > > > (unless > > > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > > > capacity > > > > at 20 > > > > > > gallons > > > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd > > has > > > come up > > > > with > > > > > 30 > > > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, > > perhaps > > > > you'd > > > > > like to > > > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are > > so > > > that > > > > we can > > > > > get > > > > > > a > > > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time > > you > > > had 90 > > > > tsp > > > > > of > > > > > > salt > > > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, > > that > > > would > > > > equate > > > > > to 4 > > > > > > 1/2 > > > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than > > 0.3% > > > of > > > > salt in > > > > > > their > > > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to > > 2.4 tsp > > > per > > > > > gallon > > > > > > (not 3 > > > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can > > tolerate > > > more > > > > I > > > > > felt it > > > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the > > time > > > (note: > > > > this > > > > > > measure > > > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all > > fish do > > > have > > > > their > > > > > > limits > > > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and > > some > > > > Cichlids > > > > > > seeming to > > > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish > > (Cory's, > > > etc.) > > > > > having > > > > > > the > > > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish > > included) > > > being > > > > > somewhere in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > > > establish > > > > just > > > > > what > > > > > > your > > > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, > > it > > > could > > > > act > > > > > > adversely > > > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing > > further > > > > advancement of > > > > > the > > > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level > > of sale > > > > affecting > > > > > > your > > > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live > > plants. I > > > know > > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for > > the > > > benefit > > > > of > > > > > other > > > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the > > tank > > > is > > > > done > > > > > > gradually > > > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most > > aquatic > > > plants > > > > will > > > > > > tolerate > > > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; > > Cabomba, > > > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > > > readings > > > > of > > > > > several > > > > > > days > > > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to > > 0.5 ppm > > > and > > > > both > > > > > your > > > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm > > (indicating > > > your > > > > cycle > > > > > > suddenly > > > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the > > next > > > day > > > > your > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm > > and > > > your > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > was > > > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to > > 0.25 > > > ppm). > > > > A > > > > > > discrepency > > > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of > > erroneous > > > test > > > > result > > > > > (or > > > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing > > the > > > issue, > > > > I'd > > > > > suggest > > > > > > you > > > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest > > this > > > > disease. > > > > > > Those > > > > > > > medications would include any of the > > following: > > > > A.P.I.'s > > > > > Furan > > > > > > II, > > > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's > > Fungus > > > Clear > > > > Tank > > > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and > > Furadolazone as > > > their > > > > main > > > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the > > Rid- > > > > Ich/Malachite > > > > > > Green > > > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, > > but not > > > > all, > > > > > Fungal > > > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is > > acting > > > > somewhat > > > > > weak > > > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming > > with > > > Lucille > > > > and > > > > > > generally > > > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > > > watching > > > > the > > > > > what we > > > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > > > hasn't > > > > improved > > > > > at > > > > > > all > > > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one > > side > > > and > > > > seems > > > > > to be > > > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas > > at the > > > > base of > > > > > her > > > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > > > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of > > them, > > > > because CB > > > > > seems > > > > > > a > > > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra > > food > > > they're > > > > > getting I > > > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the > > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > > fungus > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so > > save > > > your > > > > money > > > > > for > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bigger > > > > > > > > tank. If you have an HOB filter system, > > > lowering > > > > the > > > > > water a > > > > > > > little (or > > > > > > > > raising the filter) will cause the water > > fall > > > to > > > > create > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > > agitation to substantially increase gas > > > exchange. > > > > That > > > > > and > > > > > > live > > > > > > > plants are > > > > > > > > all I rely on to keep the O2 levels up > > and the > > > CO2 > > > > levels > > > > > > down. > > > > > > > Cooler > > > > > > > > water for goldfish also holds more O2. > > > Hopefully > > > > Raven > > > > > will > > > > > > > start to turn > > > > > > > > aroun<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34757	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?

There is always the possibility of your Gourami's becoming aggressive, although I would not necessarily blame them without more to support this suspicion. Blue Gourami's are known to be one of the more aggressive species of this group though -- who ever told you that Blue Gourami's are supposed to be non-aggressive? This is a fallacy, even though to blame all Blue Gourami's for such behavior would be giving the species a bad rap as a whole; they're not all of this nature (but many can be, although it may depend upon their environment). If this is a sore or sudden injury from running into an ornament, which it could have run into at night -- since you recently added these items, the Melafix should soon see to its healing. If this mark is situated directly underneath the dorsal fin, it should be noted that, while not expressed in all Angelfish strains, this is a natural marking as found in the species' wild genes and while usually a small metalic blue or green triangle spot, it can be other colors on other variants. Without having the actual benefit of seeing the fish, it doesn't sound as if this is what it is (unless you feel this description fits), as it may be positioned ahead of the dorsal from what I'm gathering, and if its white its the result of scales and epidermis missing (no pigmentation of the area). Could well be a wound -- keep an eye on it while its being treated, especially for any possible secondary infection (fungus) setting in, as a white cottony growth. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > My Angelfish has a white spot just before his top fin. He is a deep > black and this spot really stands out. its looks like a bite mark but > I dont have any other agressive fish in the tank(a cherry barb, a > female swordtail, a mini silver dollar??? 3 blue gouramis which have > been in the tank for about 5 months now and are supposed to be non > agressive all in a 55 gallon). > Its not Ich but I have him in an isolation tank w/ Melefix. Its now > turning a reddish color..healing? This happened after I added a > couple of plastic rock ornaments and fake plants. > > My question is did the gouramis all of a sudden become territorial > with the addition of new plants and rocks or could he have bumped > himself on an ornament. Both rocks and tall plants are on either side > of the tank so the middle is open with a couple of 2-3" plants > because his finspan? from top to bottom is about 6". > > Any ideas? > > Thanks > Tom > > P.S. Thanks for everyones help over the past few months. > I appreciate it and my fish appreciate it! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34758	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a link to the AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the other files on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be writing info sheets. lol! I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day doesn't do the job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should have arrived by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's almost twice as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big tank as soon as possible. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one less thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if the septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the token recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 Gallons when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, like Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in your water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel Sheet for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can avoid it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change (and the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of your fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise get rough on your fish. There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I had forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I hate losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least address the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product being the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless ammonium which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This should help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to avoid osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing out water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce your nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your cycle should be near complete. In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more understandable when you say you added salt while at the same time reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 tsp/G of salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know you've since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the salt went each time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has trouble with > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess if they both > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on the Acriflavin. > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the salt level and > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% 20Chemistry/ > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets the ammonia > and nitrate down. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing it) > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the PWC. The > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it yesterday > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting on the > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is the stronger > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get worse, I'll > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite lower. Will > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower this?); > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline hadn't been zero, > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on doing a > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want to > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, which > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of your > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around noon > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly (I > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote you a > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 seconds > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here was > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame my > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), but > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts to > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct any > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of the > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem here. > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). On the > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content was > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon that > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended on > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on any > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that > day). > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing when > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you REPLACED 1 > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided not > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a 2 > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another PWC > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less than > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing the > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out any > more salt than this. > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely mild > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope all > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post of > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as it > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which might > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said the > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day of > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the PraziPro. > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least nothing > near as good that would help with their type of internal parasite > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay to > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will have > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and nitrite > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these levels > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these nitrogenous > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to your > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, you > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these levels > down. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart and > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry that > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic stress > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything else > without > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > potential for > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... > and it's also > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week > or so just > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system > disorders.. > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a few > days which > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the Maracyn > 2? And > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to > this last > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of > the meds. > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too > much meds. > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of > just fresh > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest > between > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean fresh > air for > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds > that are > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the > PWC's will > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > 2.08tsp/G) > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra > flakes, > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the > carbs will > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to > work. If it > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that > might help > > until Monday? > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > There's a tiny > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding > anything to > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB off. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here > to the 20G. > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the > previous > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since these > three > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the > wax. > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be a > bit > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, > remains to be > > seen. > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the > fish before > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the > Christmas > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even > care about > > that. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention > due to > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > hopefully she'll > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so > it wasn't > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or > same size > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), she > is growing > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > Hopefully, they > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there > and I don't > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > goldfish in the > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) > What size > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have > been in from > > the beginning? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; > Nitrite: > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the > last PWC. > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at > bay until I > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing > occasionally > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they > arrived about 3 > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go > down to > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt > Levels" for > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since > there isn't > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after > exertion > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of > the head, > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is > eating and > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not > eating at > > the time. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen > cycle nearly > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > ammonia/nitrite > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough nitrifying > bacteria > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so > you should > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to > keep nitrates > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > gallon) of > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it > down to > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll > bring the > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% > down to > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > number). You will > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the > 3G PWC's, > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of > those, you > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no > longer be > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds of > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow > gulping > > motion? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with salt) > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > probably what > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > over .25ppm; > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and > today's > > PWC) > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and > that choking > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the salt > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. > When > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > especially > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > reduced. > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a bit > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form > of > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > treating > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and > will > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your > not > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed > your > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits (high > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more > frequent > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want > to > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > > (depending on lighting) > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have > been. > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I did > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing > this. > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets > from > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty > much > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not > sure > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > Jungles > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent > most > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when > Raven > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner > for a > > bit. > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity- -- > -- > > ---------------- > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was ok. > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms > up > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could > have > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped > fins > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are > doing. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----------------------End inserted message-------------------- - > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > > column, it > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > bladders, as > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > > would > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > > being a > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > bacterial. > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > > Hexamita, > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > > and > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria (roundworms) > > they > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > > they > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > infections > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > impossible > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > microscope). > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > clearing up > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > medications > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > > Since > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > > the > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > > fungus > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > > (unless you > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > > shipped > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > another 4 > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > > should > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for this > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > > normal > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > > an > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > > remove it. > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > > treatment > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > > in > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) -- > > the > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > > find > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > > contact > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > > (treats > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > > $32.74 > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > effective as > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > mention for > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > > a > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > > can use > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 ounce > > pond > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > > priced > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > > that's > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > > One > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the medication > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > > Tabs) or > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > > Both > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > > for > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > > little > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro will > > also > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > > source > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > > Jungles > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > > bottom > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > > choice, > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > > too > > > much. > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > > some is > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > > see > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > > food > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other two - > > not > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > > has > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > > most > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > > shiny, > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > > probably > > > a sign of healing? > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > > is set > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > > scraped > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > concerned > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > > related > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > instructions > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > > a 25% > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > > put the > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > before we > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > > sales. > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > > stripped > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > > slate- > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them from > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > > what I'd > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > > as > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > discouraging. > > > If, by > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > > surface > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > > glass > > > in > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > > at the > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > > not > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > > by the > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > > bouyed > > > up at > > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > > bladders > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > > choice > > > rather > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > possible > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > > on > > > their > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > > and > > > is > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > > being > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > > written > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > > and > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > > something > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > temperature? > > > Are > > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > > you > > > have > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > extent as > > > to > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > > may > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > > the > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > > up to > > > 55 > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > > them. > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > > as > > > again > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > > support) > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > bond/seal > > > between > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > > yet > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing -- > > and > > > Lenny > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > > joints, > > > you > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > > choice) > > > in re- > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > > environment > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > > reptile > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > > to be > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > > fish > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > > elevated > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > > all > > > the medical > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > > in > > > the hospital > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > > to be > > > absorbed > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > > out > > > by their > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > > which > > > is > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > > at the > > > surface, > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > > return. The > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > > All > > > the agitation > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > > there > > > is more gas > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > waves. > > > The up/down > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > > of a > > > tank > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > since they > > > do not > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > > I > > > guess if it was > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > > removing all the > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > > a > > > price. I've > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > > that > > > used to have > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > > year. > > > Tell them > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > > to > > > about $25.00. > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > > that > > > shouldn't > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > > plastic > > > of the same > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > > sure > > > the front > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > someone > > > removed that > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > > where > > > the glass had > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > over 400 > > > pounds of > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > > let me > > > know. I > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > side > > > under Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > Fungus > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > > Jungle > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > > bottom. > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > > (do > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > > CB > > > also > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > > there. > > > And > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > > up > > > every > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > > problem > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > wouldn't they > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > > the > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > Craigslist > > > for > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > resealing, > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > > out > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > > the > > > plastic > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > > accept a > > > fish > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > I see > > > that > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > > this > > > tank > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > > see > > > how I > > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > > boxes to > > > see > > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > > only 18G > > > of > > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > > more > > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > > returned 3G > > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > > 3G, but > > > only > > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > > removing > > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > > of > > > water > > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > > nitrite > > > levels > > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > > than". > > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > > kit a > > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > > anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > > dragging. > > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > > Clear > > > starts > > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > > there's > > > only > > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > > bit > > > won't > > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > > from > > > his > > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this > > subject, I > > > find > > > > the > > > > > need to question your present salt content and your > > methods > > > > with > > > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these > > levels -- > > > only > > > > if to > > > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to > > see > > > > that "Carol > > > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has > > improved > > > > even > > > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to > > be > > > quite > > > > as well > > > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will > > not > > > see > > > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > > > recuperating. > > > > > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it > > was at > > > 3.7 > > > > tsp > > > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > > > changes > > > > since. > > > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would > > have > > > > reduced > > > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > > > gallon. > > > > If > > > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, > > this > > > would > > > > now > > > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% > > PWC's > > > > since last > > > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm > > now > > > > wondering if > > > > > even that level was correct in your method of > > figuring. > > > Maybe > > > > you > > > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would > > seem that > > > > your > > > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > > > especially > > > > with > > > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning > > these > > > results > > > > as > > > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips > > (which > > > can > > > > often > > > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether > > the > > > > reagents may > > > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > > > Jungles' > > > > Fungus > > > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit > > still > > > not > > > > as > > > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately > > 3.4tsp/G > > > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs > > since > > > > yesterday's > > > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: > > <.25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue > > what it > > > is. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that > > part and > > > > missed it > > > > > in > > > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your > > source > > > > water is > > > > > not > > > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that > > is not > > > as > > > > > injurious > > > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. > > While > > > we > > > > strive > > > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as > > we > > > can), > > > > there is > > > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most > > fish as > > > > that's > > > > > still > > > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm > > shows > > > your > > > > tank > > > > > is > > > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or > > more > > > > frequent > > > > > PWC's > > > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > > > straightened out > > > > > you > > > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at > > least > > > ones > > > > that the > > > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind > > adding some > > > to > > > > their > > > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part > > of > > > their > > > > food, > > > > > and > > > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as > > part > > > of > > > > their > > > > > diet > > > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- > > term if > > > you > > > > add > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > > > medications > > > > to > > > > > water > > > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest > > changing > > > out > > > > enough > > > > > water > > > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per > > gallon. > > > > You're not > > > > > too > > > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may > > not > > > make > > > > that > > > > > much > > > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful > > minimum > > > of 3 > > > > tsp > > > > > per > > > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > > > tolerable > > > > > range. > > > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of > > salt, > > > > even > > > > > though > > > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended > > for them > > > on > > > > some > > > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish > > is > > > > approaching, > > > > > if > > > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt > > levels. > > > > Cyprinidae > > > > > are > > > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > > > toleration -- > > > > they > > > > > can > > > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add > > medications > > > > while > > > > > there > > > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as > > some > > > > medications > > > > > (and > > > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) > > contain > > > salt as > > > > part > > > > > of > > > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you > > may > > > add > > > > > additional > > > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- > > checking this > > > > factor > > > > > will > > > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level > > during > > > > > treatments. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the > > zeros were > > > > baseline > > > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank > > seems to > > > be > > > > cycling > > > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as > > that > > > likes > > > > to > > > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I > > also > > > asked > > > > my dd > > > > > and > > > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my > > memory > > > that > > > > was > > > > > off. > > > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and > > lowering the > > > > saline > > > > > with > > > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > > > 3.7tsp/G > > > > in the > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before > > using > > > one > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting > > more > > > > normal > > > > > today, > > > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank > > at the > > > > moment. I > > > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding > > further > > > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a > > fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' > > plight > > > now > > > > for a > > > > > > number of > > > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment > > would > > > > eliminate this > > > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and > > undoubtedly > > > did > > > > to > > > > > some > > > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these > > fish's > > > health > > > > in > > > > > their > > > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to > > go in > > > > reverse, > > > > > it > > > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, > > at > > > least > > > > to me > > > > > > (unless > > > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > > > capacity > > > > at 20 > > > > > > gallons > > > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd > > has > > > come up > > > > with > > > > > 30 > > > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, > > perhaps > > > > you'd > > > > > like to > > > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are > > so > > > that > > > > we can > > > > > get > > > > > > a > > > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time > > you > > > had 90 > > > > tsp > > > > > of > > > > > > salt > > > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, > > that > > > would > > > > equate > > > > > to 4 > > > > > > 1/2 > > > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than > > 0.3% > > > of > > > > salt in > > > > > > their > > > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to > > 2.4 tsp > > > per > > > > > gallon > > > > > > (not 3 > > > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can > > tolerate > > > more > > > > I > > > > > felt it > > > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the > > time > > > (note: > > > > this > > > > > > measure > > > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all > > fish do > > > have > > > > their > > > > > > limits > > > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and > > some > > > > Cichlids > > > > > > seeming to > > > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish > > (Cory's, > > > etc.) > > > > > having > > > > > > the > > > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish > > included) > > > being > > > > > somewhere in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > > > establish > > > > just > > > > > what > > > > > > your > > > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, > > it > > > could > > > > act > > > > > > adversely > > > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing > > further > > > > advancement of > > > > > the > > > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level > > of sale > > > > affecting > > > > > > your > > > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live > > plants. I > > > know > > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > least of your concern at this time, but for > > the > > > benefit > > > > of > > > > > other > > > > > > > members, provided any salt being added to the > > tank > > > is > > > > done > > > > > > gradually > > > > > > > (over a period of 48 to 72 hours), most > > aquatic > > > plants > > > > will > > > > > > tolerate > > > > > > > up to 0.3% solution. Some exceptions are; > > Cabomba, > > > > > Anacharis -- > > > > > > > Elodea and Water Clover. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One other point I picked up on was your test > > > readings > > > > of > > > > > several > > > > > > days > > > > > > > ago when you stated you ammonina was up to > > 0.5 ppm > > > and > > > > both > > > > > your > > > > > > > nitrites and nitrates were at 0.0 ppm > > (indicating > > > your > > > > cycle > > > > > > suddenly > > > > > > > stopped completely), but just as suddenly the > > next > > > day > > > > your > > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > was back up to its previous level of 0.25 ppm > > and > > > your > > > > > nitrate > > > > > > was > > > > > > > 0.15 ppm (and your ammonia was back down to > > 0.25 > > > ppm). > > > > A > > > > > > discrepency > > > > > > > of this sort can only be the result of > > erroneous > > > test > > > > result > > > > > (or > > > > > > > erroneous readings of test results). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the salt treatment is not addressing > > the > > > issue, > > > > I'd > > > > > suggest > > > > > > you > > > > > > > employ proper fungicide medications to arrest > > this > > > > disease. > > > > > > Those > > > > > > > medications would include any of the > > following: > > > > A.P.I.'s > > > > > Furan > > > > > > II, > > > > > > > Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Jungle's > > Fungus > > > Clear > > > > Tank > > > > > > Buddies -- > > > > > > > each containing Nitrofurazone and > > Furadolazone as > > > their > > > > main > > > > > > > ingredients. Dye medications (such as the > > Rid- > > > > Ich/Malachite > > > > > > Green > > > > > > > you were using) are effective against some, > > but not > > > > all, > > > > > Fungal > > > > > > > infections. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 8 of salt): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I notice early this evening that CB is > > acting > > > > somewhat > > > > > weak > > > > > > > again. She seemed fine all day, swimming > > with > > > Lucille > > > > and > > > > > > generally > > > > > > > gallivanting around the tank when she wasn't > > > watching > > > > the > > > > > what we > > > > > > > were doing. > > > > > > > > - CB's white fuzz is almost gone. Raven's > > > hasn't > > > > improved > > > > > at > > > > > > all > > > > > > > that I can see. She has a large area on one > > side > > > and > > > > seems > > > > > to be > > > > > > > missing a few scales. Also some small areas > > at the > > > > base of > > > > > her > > > > > > > dorsal fin and near one eye. > > > > > > > > - Tank readings at 10PM: pH: 7.5; > > > Ammonia: .25ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > > - PWC @ 11:30PM (replaced salt at 1T/G) > > > > > > > > - Gave one squashed pea to the three of > > them, > > > > because CB > > > > > seems > > > > > > a > > > > > > > bit rounder than usual and with the Tetra > > food > > > they're > > > > > getting I > > > > > > > thought constipation might be part of the > > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:34 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie with a > > fungus > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The airstone and pump aren't mandatory so > > save > > > your > > > > money > ><br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34759	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond and converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert with anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ alone in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been reports at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the oxygen balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine added to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than one normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to ensure adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a link to the > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the other files > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be writing info > sheets. lol! > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day doesn't do the > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should have arrived > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's almost twice > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big tank as > soon as possible. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one less > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if the > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the token > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 Gallons > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, like > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in your > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel Sheet > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can avoid > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change (and > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of your > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise get > rough on your fish. > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I had > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I hate > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least address > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product being > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless ammonium > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This should > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to avoid > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing out > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce your > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your cycle > should be near complete. > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same time > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 tsp/G of > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know you've > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the salt > went each time. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has trouble > with > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess if > they both > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on the > Acriflavin. > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the salt > level and > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets the > ammonia > > and nitrate down. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing it) > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > PWC. The > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it > yesterday > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting on > the > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is the > stronger > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get worse, > I'll > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > lower. Will > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower this?); > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline hadn't > been zero, > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on doing a > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want to > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, which > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of your > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around noon > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly (I > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote you a > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 seconds > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here was > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame my > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), but > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts to > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct any > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of the > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem here. > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). On > the > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content was > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon that > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended on > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on any > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that > > day). > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing when > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you REPLACED 1 > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided not > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a 2 > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another PWC > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less > than > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing the > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out any > > more salt than this. > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely > mild > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope all > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post of > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as it > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which might > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said the > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day of > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > PraziPro. > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > nothing > > near as good that would help with their type of internal parasite > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay to > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will have > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and nitrite > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these levels > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > nitrogenous > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to your > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, you > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these levels > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart > and > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry > that > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > stress > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything > else > > without > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > potential for > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... > > and it's also > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week > > or so just > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system > > disorders.. > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a > few > > days which > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > Maracyn > > 2? And > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to > > this last > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of > > the meds. > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too > > much meds. > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of > > just fresh > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest > > between > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean > fresh > > air for > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds > > that are > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the > > PWC's will > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra > > flakes, > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the > > carbs will > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to > > work. If it > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that > > might help > > > until Monday? > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > There's a tiny > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding > > anything to > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB > off. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here > > to the 20G. > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the > > previous > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since > these > > three > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the > > wax. > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be > a > > bit > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, > > remains to be > > > seen. > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the > > fish before > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the > > Christmas > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even > > care about > > > that. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention > > due to > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > hopefully she'll > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so > > it wasn't > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or > > same size > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), > she > > is growing > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > Hopefully, they > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there > > and I don't > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > > goldfish in the > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) > > What size > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have > > been in from > > > the beginning? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the > > last PWC. > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at > > bay until I > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing > > occasionally > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they > > arrived about 3 > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go > > down to > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt > > Levels" for > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since > > there isn't > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/> > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after > > exertion > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of > > the head, > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is > > eating and > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not > > eating at > > > the time. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen > > cycle nearly > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > > ammonia/nitrite > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > nitrifying > > bacteria > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so > > you should > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to > > keep nitrates > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > > gallon) of > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it > > down to > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll > > bring the > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% > > down to > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > number). You will > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the > > 3G PWC's, > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of > > those, you > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no > > longer be > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds > of > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow > > gulping > > > motion? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with > salt) > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > probably what > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > over .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and > > today's > > > PWC) > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and > > that choking > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the > salt > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. > > When > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > especially > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > reduced. > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a > bit > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form > > of > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > treating > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and > > will > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your > > not > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed > > your > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits > (high > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more > > frequent > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want > > to > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have > > been. > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I > did > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing > > this. > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets > > from > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty > > much > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not > > sure > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > > Jungles > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent > > most > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when > > Raven > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner > > for a > > > bit. > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity- > -- > > -- > > > ---------------- > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was > ok. > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms > > up > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could > > have > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped > > fins > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are > > doing. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----------------------End inserted message------------------ -- > - > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > > > column, it > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > > bladders, as > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > > > would > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > > > being a > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > > bacterial. > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > > > Hexamita, > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > > > and > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > (roundworms) > > > they > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > > > they > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > infections > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > > impossible > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > > clearing up > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > > medications > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > > > Since > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > > > the > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > > > fungus > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > > > (unless you > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > > > shipped > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > > another 4 > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > > > should > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for > this > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > > > normal > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > > > an > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > > > treatment > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > > > in > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) - - > > > the > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > > > find > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > > > contact > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > > > (treats > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > > > $32.74 > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > > effective as > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > > mention for > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > > > a > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > > > can use > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 > ounce > > > pond > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > > > priced > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > > > that's > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > > > One > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > medication > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > > > Tabs) or > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > > > Both > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > > > for > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > > > little > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro > will > > > also > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > > > source > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > > > Jungles > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > > > bottom > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > > > choice, > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > > > too > > > > much. > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > > > some is > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > > > see > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > > > food > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other > two - > > > not > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > > > has > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > > > most > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > > > shiny, > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > > > probably > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > > > is set > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > > > scraped > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > concerned > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > > > related > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > > instructions > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > > > a 25% > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > > > put the > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > before we > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > > > sales. > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > > > stripped > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > > > slate- > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them > from > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > > > what I'd > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > > > as > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > discouraging. > > > > If, by > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > > > surface > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > > > glass > > > > in > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > > > at the > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > > > not > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > > > by the > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > > > bouyed > > > > up at > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > > > bladders > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > > > choice > > > > rather > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > > possible > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > > > on > > > > their > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > > > and > > > > is > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > > > being > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > > > written > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > > > and > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > > > something > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > temperature? > > > > Are > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > > > you > > > > have > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > > extent as > > > > to > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > > > may > > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > > > the > > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > > > up to > > > > 55 > > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > > > as > > > > again > > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > > > support) > > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > > bond/seal > > > > between > > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > > > yet > > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing - - > > > and > > > > Lenny > > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > > > joints, > > > > you > > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > > > choice) > > > > in re- > > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > > > environment > > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > > > reptile > > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > > > to be > > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > > > fish > > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > > > elevated > > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > > > all > > > > the medical > > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > > > in > > > > the hospital > > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > > > to be > > > > absorbed > > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > > > out > > > > by their > > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > > > which > > > > is > > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > > > at the > > > > surface, > > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > > > return. The > > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > > > All > > > > the agitation > > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > > > there > > > > is more gas > > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > > waves. > > > > The up/down > > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > > > of a > > > > tank > > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > > since they > > > > do not > > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > > > I > > > > guess if it was > > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > > > removing all the > > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > > > a > > > > price. I've > > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > > > that > > > > used to have > > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > > > year. > > > > Tell them > > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > > > to > > > > about $25.00. > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > > > that > > > > shouldn't > > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > > > plastic > > > > of the same > > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > > > sure > > > > the front > > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > > someone > > > > removed that > > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > > > where > > > > the glass had > > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > > over 400 > > > > pounds of > > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > > > let me > > > > know. I > > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > > Fungus > > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > > > Jungle > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > > > bottom. > > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > > > (do > > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > > > CB > > > > also > > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > > > there. > > > > And > > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > > > up > > > > every > > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > > > problem > > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > > wouldn't they > > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > > > the > > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > > Craigslist > > > > for > > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > > resealing, > > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > > > out > > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > > > the > > > > plastic > > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > > > accept a > > > > fish > > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > > I see > > > > that > > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > > > this > > > > tank > > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > > > see > > > > how I > > > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > > > boxes to > > > > see > > > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > > > only 18G > > > > of > > > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > > > more > > > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > > > returned 3G > > > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > > > 3G, but > > > > only > > > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > > > removing > > > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > > > of > > > > water > > > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > > > nitrite > > > > levels > > > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > > > than". > > > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > > > kit a > > > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > > > anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > > > dragging. > > > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > > > Clear > > > > starts > > > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > > > there's > > > > only > > > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > > > bit > > > > won't > > > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > > > from > > > > his > > > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this > > > subject, I > > > > find > > > > > the > > > > > > need to question your present salt content and your > > > methods > > > > > with > > > > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these > > > levels -- > > > > only > > > > > if to > > > > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to > > > see > > > > > that "Carol > > > > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has > > > improved > > > > > even > > > > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to > > > be > > > > quite > > > > > as well > > > > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will > > > not > > > > see > > > > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > > > > recuperating. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it > > > was at > > > > 3.7 > > > > > tsp > > > > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > > > > changes > > > > > since. > > > > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would > > > have > > > > > reduced > > > > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > > > > gallon. > > > > > If > > > > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, > > > this > > > > would > > > > > now > > > > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% > > > PWC's > > > > > since last > > > > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm > > > now > > > > > wondering if > > > > > > even that level was correct in your method of > > > figuring. > > > > Maybe > > > > > you > > > > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would > > > seem that > > > > > your > > > > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > > > > especially > > > > > with > > > > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning > > > these > > > > results > > > > > as > > > > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips > > > (which > > > > can > > > > > often > > > > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether > > > the > > > > > reagents may > > > > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > > > > Jungles' > > > > > Fungus > > > > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit > > > still > > > > not > > > > > as > > > > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately > > > 3.4tsp/G > > > > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs > > > since > > > > > yesterday's > > > > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: > > > <.25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue > > > what it > > > > is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that > > > part and > > > > > missed it > > > > > > in > > > > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your > > > source > > > > > water is > > > > > > not > > > > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that > > > is not > > > > as > > > > > > injurious > > > > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. > > > While > > > > we > > > > > strive > > > > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as > > > we > > > > can), > > > > > there is > > > > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most > > > fish as > > > > > that's > > > > > > still > > > > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm > > > shows > > > > your > > > > > tank > > > > > > is > > > > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or > > > more > > > > > frequent > > > > > > PWC's > > > > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > > > > straightened out > > > > > > you > > > > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at > > > least > > > > ones > > > > > that the > > > > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind > > > adding some > > > > to > > > > > their > > > > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part > > > of > > > > their > > > > > food, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as > > > part > > > > of > > > > > their > > > > > > diet > > > > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- > > > term if > > > > you > > > > > add > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > > > > medications > > > > > to > > > > > > water > > > > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest > > > changing > > > > out > > > > > enough > > > > > > water > > > > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per > > > gallon. > > > > > You're not > > > > > > too > > > > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may > > > not > > > > make > > > > > that > > > > > > much > > > > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful > > > minimum > > > > of 3 > > > > > tsp > > > > > > per > > > > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > > > > tolerable > > > > > > range. > > > > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of > > > salt, > > > > > even > > > > > > though > > > > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended > > > for them > > > > on > > > > > some > > > > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish > > > is > > > > > approaching, > > > > > > if > > > > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt > > > levels. > > > > > Cyprinidae > > > > > > are > > > > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > > > > toleration -- > > > > > they > > > > > > can > > > > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add > > > medications > > > > > while > > > > > > there > > > > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as > > > some > > > > > medications > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) > > > contain > > > > salt as > > > > > part > > > > > > of > > > > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you > > > may > > > > add > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- > > > checking this > > > > > factor > > > > > > will > > > > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level > > > during > > > > > > treatments. > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the > > > zeros were > > > > > baseline > > > > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank > > > seems to > > > > be > > > > > cycling > > > > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as > > > that > > > > likes > > > > > to > > > > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I > > > also > > > > asked > > > > > my dd > > > > > > and > > > > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my > > > memory > > > > that > > > > > was > > > > > > off. > > > > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and > > > lowering the > > > > > saline > > > > > > with > > > > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > > > > 3.7tsp/G > > > > > in the > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before > > > using > > > > one > > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting > > > more > > > > > normal > > > > > > today, > > > > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank > > > at the > > > > > moment. I > > > > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding > > > further > > > > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a > > > fungus > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' > > > plight > > > > now > > > > > for a > > > > > > > number of > > > > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment > > > would > > > > > eliminate this > > > > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and > > > undoubtedly > > > > did > > > > > to > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these > > > fish's > > > > health > > > > > in > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to > > > go in > > > > > reverse, > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, > > > at > > > > least > > > > > to me > > > > > > > (unless > > > > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > > > > capacity > > > > > at 20 > > > > > > > gallons > > > > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd > > > has > > > > come up > > > > > with > > > > > > 30 > > > > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, > > > perhaps > > > > > you'd > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are > > > so > > > > that > > > > > we can > > > > > > get > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time > > > you > > > > had 90 > > > > > tsp > > > > > > of > > > > > > > salt > > > > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, > > > that > > > > would > > > > > equate > > > > > > to 4 > > > > > > > 1/2 > > > > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than > > > 0.3% > > > > of > > > > > salt in > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to > > > 2.4 tsp > > > > per > > > > > > gallon > > > > > > > (not 3 > > > > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can > > > tolerate > > > > more > > > > > I > > > > > > felt it > > > > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the > > > time > > > > (note: > > > > > this > > > > > > > measure > > > > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all > > > fish do > > > > have > > > > > their > > > > > > > limits > > > > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and > > > some > > > > > Cichlids > > > > > > > seeming to > > > > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish > > > (Cory's, > > > > etc.) > > > > > > having > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish > > > included) > > > > being > > > > > > somewhere in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > > > > establish > > > > > just > > > > > > what > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, > > > it > > > > could > > > > > act > > > > > > > adversely > > > > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing > > > further > > > > > advancement of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > fungus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should know too that besides this level > > > of sale > > > > > affecting > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > cycle it will not be tolerated by live > > > plants. I > > > > know > > > > > this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34760	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Blister?

Did that really pop up overnight? I doubt that Melafix will be of any use unless/until it pops and then Melafix might be useful as a topical antibacterial to aid in healing. In the goldfish/Koi industry, there is an issue with KHV (Koi Herpes Virus) and variants that can cause blistering type growths in the fins but they are usually not clear like that and don't happen overnight. The virus in Koi/goldfish is similar to the human fever blister on lips caused by the variant of the herpes virus... meaning it's usually a dormant virus that causes issues when the carrier is stressed. If it is related to KHV, then you would want to improve water quality (if that's an issue) and remove any other stressors (aggressive fish, etc.) to prevent further outbreaks. From checking the images on this page http://tinyurl.com/2m83ee, it seems other fish have had similar occurrences and they associate it with a cyst or cancerous growth. Look at the images and see if you think it's the same and/or do a Google search on some of the diagnostic terms used to find other pictures/information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Blister? Today I had a blister-like growth on the dorsal fin of one of my German Blue angels. Has anyone any experience with something like this? I have isolated the fish in a quarantine tank and have introduced some melafix. Any suggestions? Pic links below. http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg> http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg> http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg> http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34761	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/22/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned having used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower the water levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last resort, since the goldfish are growing, now. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond and converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert with anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ alone in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been reports at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the oxygen balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine added to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than one normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to ensure adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a link to the > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the other files > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be writing info > sheets. lol! > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day doesn't do the > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should have arrived > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's almost twice > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big tank as > soon as possible. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one less > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if the > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the token > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 Gallons > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, like > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in your > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel Sheet > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can avoid > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change (and > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of your > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise get > rough on your fish. > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I had > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I hate > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least address > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product being > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless ammonium > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This should > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to avoid > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing out > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce your > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your cycle > should be near complete. > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same time > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 tsp/G of > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know you've > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the salt > went each time. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has trouble > with > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess if > they both > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on the > Acriflavin. > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the salt > level and > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > 20Chemistry/ > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets the > ammonia > > and nitrate down. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing it) > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > PWC. The > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it > yesterday > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting on > the > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is the > stronger > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get worse, > I'll > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > lower. Will > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower this?); > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline hadn't > been zero, > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on doing a > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want to > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, which > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of your > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around noon > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly (I > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote you a > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 seconds > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here was > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame my > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), but > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts to > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct any > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of the > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem here. > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). On > the > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content was > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon that > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended on > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on any > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that > > day). > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing when > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you REPLACED 1 > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided not > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a 2 > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another PWC > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less > than > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing the > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out any > > more salt than this. > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely > mild > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope all > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post of > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as it > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if it > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which might > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said the > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day of > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > PraziPro. > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > nothing > > near as good that would help with their type of internal parasite > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay to > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will have > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and nitrite > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these levels > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > nitrogenous > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to your > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, you > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these levels > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart > and > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to find > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, but > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry > that > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually came > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought that > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. I > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving the > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > stress > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold again > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything > else > > without > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > potential for > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... > > and it's also > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a week > > or so just > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive system > > disorders.. > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a > few > > days which > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > Maracyn > > 2? And > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt to > > this last > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest of > > the meds. > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with too > > much meds. > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of > > just fresh > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to rest > > between > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean > fresh > > air for > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds > > that are > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only the > > PWC's will > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra > > flakes, > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the > > carbs will > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to > > work. If it > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS that > > might help > > > until Monday? > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > There's a tiny > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding > > anything to > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB > off. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming here > > to the 20G. > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when the > > previous > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since > these > > three > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of the > > wax. > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may be > a > > bit > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, > > remains to be > > > seen. > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on the > > fish before > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at the > > Christmas > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even > > care about > > > that. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water retention > > due to > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > hopefully she'll > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting so > > it wasn't > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or > > same size > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), > she > > is growing > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > Hopefully, they > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't there > > and I don't > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > > goldfish in the > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) > > What size > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have > > been in from > > > the beginning? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under 3tsp/G) > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since the > > last PWC. > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus at > > bay until I > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking thing > > occasionally > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they > > arrived about 3 > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will go > > down to > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt > > Levels" for > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since > > there isn't > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/> > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/ > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but after > > exertion > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking of > > the head, > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is > > eating and > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's not > > eating at > > > the time. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen > > cycle nearly > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > > ammonia/nitrite > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > nitrifying > > bacteria > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so > > you should > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to > > keep nitrates > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > > gallon) of > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it > > down to > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll > > bring the > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the 0.285% > > down to > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > number). You will > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of the > > 3G PWC's, > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 of > > those, you > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no > > longer be > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any kinds > of > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a slow > > gulping > > > motion? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with > salt) > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > probably what > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > over .25ppm; > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level and > > today's > > > PWC) > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and > > that choking > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the > salt > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. > > When > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > especially > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment of > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > reduced. > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a > bit > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the form > > of > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > treating > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble adjusting > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish will > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen and > > will > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of your > > not > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed > > your > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits > (high > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more > > frequent > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't want > > to > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder of > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - 15ppm > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have > > been. > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes she's > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I > did > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing > > this. > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets > > from > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What I'm > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, pretty > > much > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not > > sure > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > > Jungles > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still spent > > most > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when > > Raven > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back corner > > for a > > > bit. > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for continuity- > -- > > -- > > > ---------------- > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was > ok. > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' symptoms > > up > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could > > have > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had clamped > > fins > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are > > doing. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----------------------End inserted message------------------ -- > - > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > > > column, it > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > > bladders, as > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > > > would > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > > > being a > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > > bacterial. > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > > > Hexamita, > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in Goldfish, > > > and > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > (roundworms) > > > they > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms when > > > they > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > infections > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > > impossible > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > > clearing up > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > > medications > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite issues. > > > Since > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go with > > > the > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with the > > > fungus > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > > > (unless you > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > > > shipped > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > > another 4 > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > > > should > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for > this > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > > > normal > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water for > > > an > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > > > treatment > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > > > in > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) - - > > > the > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you can't > > > find > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you can't, > > > contact > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy this > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > > > (treats > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > > > $32.74 > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > > effective as > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > > mention for > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari in > > > a > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats 3200 > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats 12,800 > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > > > can use > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 > ounce > > > pond > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > > > priced > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is all > > > that's > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if necessary. > > > One > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > medication > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > > > Tabs) or > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not Prazipro. > > > Both > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, and > > > for > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > > > little > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro > will > > > also > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to the > > > source > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 of > > > Jungles > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on the > > > bottom > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > > > choice, > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they relaxed > > > too > > > > much. > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > > > some is > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able to > > > see > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the Tetra > > > food > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other > two - > > > not > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > > > has > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, but > > > most > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color and > > > shiny, > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > > > probably > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > > > is set > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic tank > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > > > scraped > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > concerned > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > > > related > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > > instructions > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," following > > > a 25% > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > > > put the > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > before we > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up on > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > > > sales. > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them healthy > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > > > stripped > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > > > slate- > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them > from > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > > > what I'd > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > > > as > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > discouraging. > > > > If, by > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near the > > > > surface > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > > > glass > > > > in > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > > > at the > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > > > not > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > > > by the > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > > > bouyed > > > > up at > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > > > bladders > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they are > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > > > choice > > > > rather > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > > possible > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > > > on > > > > their > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > > > and > > > > is > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > > > being > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > > > written > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going on > > > and > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > > > something > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > temperature? > > > > Are > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > > > you > > > > have > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > > extent as > > > > to > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > > > may > > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > > > the > > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > > > up to > > > > 55 > > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the glass, > > > as > > > > again > > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > > > support) > > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > > bond/seal > > > > between > > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > > > yet > > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing - - > > > and > > > > Lenny > > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > > > joints, > > > > you > > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > > > choice) > > > > in re- > > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > > > environment > > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > > > reptile > > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, only > > > to be > > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > > > fish > > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > > > elevated > > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > > > all > > > > the medical > > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long stay > > > in > > > > the hospital > > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > > > to be > > > > absorbed > > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and cleaned > > > out > > > > by their > > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going on > > > which > > > > is > > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > > > at the > > > > surface, > > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the filter > > > > return. The > > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > > > All > > > > the agitation > > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > > > there > > > > is more gas > > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > > waves. > > > > The up/down > > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > > > of a > > > > tank > > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > > since they > > > > do not > > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > > > I > > > > guess if it was > > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > > > removing all the > > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > > > a > > > > price. I've > > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > > > that > > > > used to have > > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > > > year. > > > > Tell them > > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > > > to > > > > about $25.00. > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > > > that > > > > shouldn't > > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > > > plastic > > > > of the same > > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to make > > > sure > > > > the front > > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > > someone > > > > removed that > > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > > > where > > > > the glass had > > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > > over 400 > > > > pounds of > > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > > > let me > > > > know. I > > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > > side > > > > under Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > > Fungus > > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 of > > > > Jungle > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > > > bottom. > > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her chin > > > (do > > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > > > CB > > > > also > > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > > > there. > > > > And > > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > > > up > > > > every > > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > > > problem > > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > > wouldn't they > > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > > > the > > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > > Craigslist > > > > for > > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > > resealing, > > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > > > out > > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > > > the > > > > plastic > > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > > > accept a > > > > fish > > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > > I see > > > > that > > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > > > this > > > > tank > > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > > > see > > > > how I > > > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > > > boxes to > > > > see > > > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > > > only 18G > > > > of > > > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > > > more > > > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > > > returned 3G > > > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > > > 3G, but > > > > only > > > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > > > removing > > > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > > > of > > > > water > > > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > > > nitrite > > > > levels > > > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > > > than". > > > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > > > kit a > > > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > > > anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > > > dragging. > > > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > > > Clear > > > > starts > > > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > > > there's > > > > only > > > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > > > bit > > > > won't > > > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > > > from > > > > his > > > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this > > > subject, I > > > > find > > > > > the > > > > > > need to question your present salt content and your > > > methods > > > > > with > > > > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these > > > levels -- > > > > only > > > > > if to > > > > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to > > > see > > > > > that "Carol > > > > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has > > > improved > > > > > even > > > > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to > > > be > > > > quite > > > > > as well > > > > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will > > > not > > > > see > > > > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > > > > recuperating. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it > > > was at > > > > 3.7 > > > > > tsp > > > > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > > > > changes > > > > > since. > > > > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would > > > have > > > > > reduced > > > > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > > > > gallon. > > > > > If > > > > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, > > > this > > > > would > > > > > now > > > > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% > > > PWC's > > > > > since last > > > > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm > > > now > > > > > wondering if > > > > > > even that level was correct in your method of > > > figuring. > > > > Maybe > > > > > you > > > > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would > > > seem that > > > > > your > > > > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > > > > especially > > > > > with > > > > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning > > > these > > > > results > > > > > as > > > > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips > > > (which > > > > can > > > > > often > > > > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether > > > the > > > > > reagents may > > > > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > > > > Jungles' > > > > > Fungus > > > > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit > > > still > > > > not > > > > > as > > > > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately > > > 3.4tsp/G > > > > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs > > > since > > > > > yesterday's > > > > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: > > > <.25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue > > > what it > > > > is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that > > > part and > > > > > missed it > > > > > > in > > > > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your > > > source > > > > > water is > > > > > > not > > > > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that > > > is not > > > > as > > > > > > injurious > > > > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. > > > While > > > > we > > > > > strive > > > > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as > > > we > > > > can), > > > > > there is > > > > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most > > > fish as > > > > > that's > > > > > > still > > > > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm > > > shows > > > > your > > > > > tank > > > > > > is > > > > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or > > > more > > > > > frequent > > > > > > PWC's > > > > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > > > > straightened out > > > > > > you > > > > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at > > > least > > > > ones > > > > > that the > > > > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind > > > adding some > > > > to > > > > > their > > > > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part > > > of > > > > their > > > > > food, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as > > > part > > > > of > > > > > their > > > > > > diet > > > > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- > > > term if > > > > you > > > > > add > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > > > > medications > > > > > to > > > > > > water > > > > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest > > > changing > > > > out > > > > > enough > > > > > > water > > > > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per > > > gallon. > > > > > You're not > > > > > > too > > > > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may > > > not > > > > make > > > > > that > > > > > > much > > > > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful > > > minimum > > > > of 3 > > > > > tsp > > > > > > per > > > > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > > > > tolerable > > > > > > range. > > > > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of > > > salt, > > > > > even > > > > > > though > > > > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended > > > for them > > > > on > > > > > some > > > > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish > > > is > > > > > approaching, > > > > > > if > > > > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt > > > levels. > > > > > Cyprinidae > > > > > > are > > > > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > > > > toleration -- > > > > > they > > > > > > can > > > > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add > > > medications > > > > > while > > > > > > there > > > > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as > > > some > > > > > medications > > > > > > (and > > > > > > > Jungles's Fungus Eliminator is one of them) > > > contain > > > > salt as > > > > > part > > > > > > of > > > > > > > their ingredients -- possibly not considering you > > > may > > > > add > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > salt as part of the treatment. So double- > > > checking this > > > > > factor > > > > > > will > > > > > > > help ensure keeping your salt at a proper level > > > during > > > > > > treatments. > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The nitrite/nitrate readings with the > > > zeros were > > > > > baseline > > > > > > > water readings, not tank readings. The tank > > > seems to > > > > be > > > > > cycling > > > > > > > fairly well, but I have to watch the nitrate, as > > > that > > > > likes > > > > > to > > > > > > > approach 20ppm every couple of days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did measure the tank dimensions and I > > > also > > > > asked > > > > > my dd > > > > > > and > > > > > > > the tank is definitely a 20G tank. It was my > > > memory > > > > that > > > > > was > > > > > > off. > > > > > > > I've been running the numbers on Excel and > > > lowering the > > > > > saline > > > > > > with > > > > > > > each PWC. At the moment there are approximately > > > > 3.7tsp/G > > > > > in the > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would I need to remove all the salt before > > > using > > > > one > > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > medications you mentioned? CB seems to be acting > > > more > > > > > normal > > > > > > today, > > > > > > > but I won't assume it will stay that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any live plants in the tank > > > at the > > > > > moment. I > > > > > > > figured I'd get through this before adding > > > further > > > > > complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:30 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a > > > fungus > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deb, Have been following your goldfishes' > > > plight > > > > now > > > > > for a > > > > > > > number of > > > > > > > > days, with hopes that the salt treatment > > > would > > > > > eliminate this > > > > > > > > fungus. While it's known to help, and > > > undoubtedly > > > > did > > > > > to > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > extent -- even if it was to prolong these > > > fish's > > > > health > > > > > in > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > present state -- as things are now seeming to > > > go in > > > > > reverse, > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > appears now to be time to medicate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's still one point that remains unclear, > > > at > > > > least > > > > > to me > > > > > > > (unless > > > > > > > > I missed it) -- you've come up with the tanks > > > > capacity > > > > > at 20 > > > > > > > gallons > > > > > > > > using Lenny's offered formula while your dd > > > has > > > > come up > > > > > with > > > > > > 30 > > > > > > > > gallons. To establish this tanks capacity, > > > perhaps > > > > > you'd > > > > > > like to > > > > > > > > state here just what your tank dimensions are > > > so > > > > that > > > > > we can > > > > > > get > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > better idea. I noticed at one point in time > > > you > > > > had 90 > > > > > tsp > > > > > > of > > > > > > > salt > > > > > > > > in you tank. If this is a 20 gallon tank, > > > that > > > > would > > > > > equate > > > > > > to 4 > > > > > > > 1/2 > > > > > > > > tsp per gallon. Most fish can take more than > > > 0.3% > > > > of > > > > > salt in > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > water which, BTW, is actually equivilent to > > > 2.4 tsp > > > > per > > > > > > gallon > > > > > > > (not 3 > > > > > > > > tsp per gallon) but knowing most fish can > > > tolerate > > > > more > > > > > I > > > > > > felt it > > > > > > > > irrevelavent to add comment to that at the > > > time > > > > (note: > > > > > this > > > > > > > measure > > > > > > > > is included in the archives). Still, all > > > fish do > > > > have > > > > > their > > > > > > > limits > > > > > > > > on salt tolerance, with some Livebearers and > > > some > > > > > Cichlids > > > > > > > seeming to > > > > > > > > have the most and Tetras, scaleless fish > > > (Cory's, > > > > etc.) > > > > > > having > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > least -- with Cyprinodonts (Goldfish > > > included) > > > > being > > > > > > somewhere in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > middle, depending upon species. I'd like to > > > > establish > > > > > just > > > > > > what > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > salinity is in your tank as, if its too high, > > > it > > > > could > > > > > act > > > > > > > adversely > > > > > > > > towards stressing the fish -- allowing > > > fur<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34762	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?

Gourami's certainly can be aggressive to conspecifics and sometimes to other top level fish but are usually less aggressive to tank mates unless they are guarding a bubble nest. They also get quite large, around 6" long, 2"+ tall, so do not plan on any other large fish in your tank or you could be facing overstocking issues. You now have three 6" fish and the angelfish which should also get to at least 6" long by 9" tall (not including fins). Wide bodied fish are counted as much larger fish compared to a 6" torpedo shaped fish for stocking purposes. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Trichogaster%20trichopterus.html It could be an injury caused by the fish getting spooked and darting into something in the tank. Some fake plants, especially the plastic ones, can have sharp edges. It's better to use silk plants when using fake plants.. plus silk plants usually look a little more realistic. The reddish color would usually be associated with getting infected, rather than healing so keep an eye on it. Is the "injury" right in the corner where the dorsal fin meets the top of the fish? That would be more of the type of injury that could be caused by a sharp edge on a fake plant. The Melafix may help but be prepared to treat it a little more aggressively. Do you have a quarantine tank you can use? If not, a Sterilite clear plastic storage box could be used (and then used for storage when not being used as a Q-tank). Big Lots sell them pretty cheap and I'm sure Walmart and K-mart have them at reasonably low prices as well. A low cost sponge filter or DIY filter can be easily set up in the Q-tank to handle biological filtration. Last, but not least, if the injury is more on the head, instead of the crevice where the dorsal fin meets the top of the fish, read up on HITH (Hole In The Head) disease which can afflict large cichlids. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot? My Angelfish has a white spot just before his top fin. He is a deep black and this spot really stands out. its looks like a bite mark but I dont have any other agressive fish in the tank(a cherry barb, a female swordtail, a mini silver dollar??? 3 blue gouramis which have been in the tank for about 5 months now and are supposed to be non agressive all in a 55 gallon). Its not Ich but I have him in an isolation tank w/ Melefix. Its now turning a reddish color..healing? This happened after I added a couple of plastic rock ornaments and fake plants. My question is did the gouramis all of a sudden become territorial with the addition of new plants and rocks or could he have bumped himself on an ornament. Both rocks and tall plants are on either side of the tank so the middle is open with a couple of 2-3" plants because his finspan? from top to bottom is about 6". Any ideas? Thanks Tom P.S. Thanks for everyones help over the past few months. I appreciate it and my fish appreciate it!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34763	From: ''Grey'' Greymane	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Blister?

None of the other fish in the tank have anything like it. It was not there the day before. The fish seems normal in all respects except for the blister. It appears to be just like a blister... clear but I cannot tell if it has a fluid in it or if it is air. Would you suggest popping the blister and letting melafix heal it up? That has been my inclination, but willing to listen to other's suggestions. Grey ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:58:08 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Blister? Did that really pop up overnight? I doubt that Melafix will be of any use unless/until it pops and then Melafix might be useful as a topical antibacterial to aid in healing. In the goldfish/Koi industry, there is an issue with KHV (Koi Herpes Virus) and variants that can cause blistering type growths in the fins but they are usually not clear like that and don't happen overnight. The virus in Koi/goldfish is similar to the human fever blister on lips caused by the variant of the herpes virus... meaning it's usually a dormant virus that causes issues when the carrier is stressed. If it is related to KHV, then you would want to improve water quality (if that's an issue) and remove any other stressors (aggressive fish, etc.) to prevent further outbreaks. From checking the images on this page http://tinyurl.com/2m83ee, it seems other fish have had similar occurrences and they associate it with a cyst or cancerous growth. Look at the images and see if you think it's the same and/or do a Google search on some of the diagnostic terms used to find other pictures/information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Blister? Today I had a blister-like growth on the dorsal fin of one of my German Blue angels. Has anyone any experience with something like this? I have isolated the fish in a quarantine tank and have introduced some melafix. Any suggestions? Pic links below. http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg> http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg> http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg> http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34764	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: OT: unsub from grouply

Remind me tomorrow, off list, and I will send you something that may help her. I probably will not have time to look it up until late tomorrow or Thursday. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Darlene > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: unsub from grouply > > If your friend is having problems with the invites, the links (note the plural) are at the > bottom of the e-mail. One is to block the one person, the other is to block all. There is also a > third link, but the result of using it does not come to mind at the moment. > > > > her problem is they somehow got hold of her email addresses & now everything she > posts/emails to everyone ends up on the grouply web site. > she has never joined grouply so does not understand how they got her email addresses in the > first place..... or how to stop it > she was told she has to unsub ............ how do you unsub when you never joined in the first place > ???? > > Darlene > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34765	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface circulation as would an airstone. I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even if imperceptibly. My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths when even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned having > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower the water > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last resort, > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond and > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert with > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ alone > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been reports > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the oxygen > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine added > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than one > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to ensure > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a link > to the > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the > other files > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > writing info > > sheets. lol! > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day doesn't > do the > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should > have arrived > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > almost twice > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big > tank as > > soon as possible. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one less > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if the > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the token > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 Gallons > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, like > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in your > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel Sheet > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can avoid > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change > (and > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of your > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise get > > rough on your fish. > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I had > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I hate > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least address > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product being > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > ammonium > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This should > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to avoid > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing out > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce your > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your > cycle > > should be near complete. > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same time > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 tsp/G > of > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know you've > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the salt > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has trouble > > with > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess if > > they both > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on the > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the salt > > level and > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/ > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets the > > ammonia > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing it) > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > > PWC. The > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it > > yesterday > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting > on > > the > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is the > > stronger > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get worse, > > I'll > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > > lower. Will > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > this?); > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline hadn't > > been zero, > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on doing > a > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want to > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, > which > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of your > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around > noon > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly > (I > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote you a > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > seconds > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here was > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame my > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), but > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts > to > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct > any > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of the > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem > here. > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). On > > the > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content > was > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon that > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended > on > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on any > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that > > > day). > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing when > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you REPLACED 1 > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided > not > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a 2 > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another > PWC > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less > > than > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing > the > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out any > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely > > mild > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope all > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post of > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as it > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if > it > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which might > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said > the > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day > of > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > PraziPro. > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > > nothing > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal parasite > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay to > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will > have > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > nitrite > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these > levels > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > nitrogenous > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to your > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, > you > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these levels > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart > > and > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to > find > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, > but > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry > > that > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually > came > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought > that > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. > I > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving > the > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > > stress > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold > again > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything > > else > > > without > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > > potential for > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... > > > and it's also > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a > week > > > or so just > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > system > > > disorders.. > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a > > few > > > days which > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > > Maracyn > > > 2? And > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt > to > > > this last > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest > of > > > the meds. > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with > too > > > much meds. > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of > > > just fresh > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to > rest > > > between > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean > > fresh > > > air for > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds > > > that are > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only > the > > > PWC's will > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra > > > flakes, > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the > > > carbs will > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to > > > work. If it > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS > that > > > might help > > > > until Monday? > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > > There's a tiny > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding > > > anything to > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB > > off. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming > here > > > to the 20G. > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when > the > > > previous > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since > > these > > > three > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of > the > > > wax. > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may > be > > a > > > bit > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, > > > remains to be > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on > the > > > fish before > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at > the > > > Christmas > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even > > > care about > > > > that. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > retention > > > due to > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > hopefully she'll > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting > so > > > it wasn't > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or > > > same size > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), > > she > > > is growing > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > > Hopefully, they > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't > there > > > and I don't > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > > > goldfish in the > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) > > > What size > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have > > > been in from > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; > > > Nitrite: > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since > the > > > last PWC. > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus > at > > > bay until I > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking > thing > > > occasionally > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they > > > arrived about 3 > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will > go > > > down to > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt > > > Levels" for > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since > > > there isn't > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but > after > > > exertion > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking > of > > > the head, > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is > > > eating and > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's > not > > > eating at > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen > > > cycle nearly > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > nitrifying > > > bacteria > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so > > > you should > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to > > > keep nitrates > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > > > gallon) of > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it > > > down to > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll > > > bring the > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the > 0.285% > > > down to > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > > number). You will > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of > the > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 > of > > > those, you > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no > > > longer be > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any > kinds > > of > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a > slow > > > gulping > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with > > salt) > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > > probably what > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > over .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level > and > > > today's > > > > PWC) > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and > > > that choking > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the > > salt > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. > > > When > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > especially > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment > of > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > > reduced. > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a > > bit > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the > form > > > of > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > > treating > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > adjusting > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish > will > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen > and > > > will > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of > your > > > not > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed > > > your > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits > > (high > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more > > > frequent > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't > want > > > to > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder > of > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - > 15ppm > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have > > > been. > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes > she's > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I > > did > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing > > > this. > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets > > > from > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What > I'm > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > pretty > > > much > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not > > > sure > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > > > Jungles > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still > spent > > > most > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when > > > Raven > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back > corner > > > for a > > > > bit. > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > continuity- > > -- > > > -- > > > > ---------------- > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was > > ok. > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' > symptoms > > > up > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could > > > have > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had > clamped > > > fins > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message---------------- -- > -- > > - > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > > > > column, it > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > > > bladders, as > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > > > > would > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > > > > being a > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > > > bacterial. > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > Goldfish, > > > > and > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > (roundworms) > > > > they > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms > when > > > > they > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > > infections > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > > > impossible > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > > > clearing up > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > > > medications > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite > issues. > > > > Since > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go > with > > > > the > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with > the > > > > fungus > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > > > > (unless you > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > > > > shipped > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > > > another 4 > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > > > > should > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for > > this > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > > > > normal > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water > for > > > > an > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > > > > treatment > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > > > > in > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) - > - > > > > the > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you > can't > > > > find > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you > can't, > > > > contact > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy > this > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > > > > (treats > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > > > > $32.74 > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > > > effective as > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > > > mention for > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari > in > > > > a > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats > 3200 > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats > 12,800 > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > > > > can use > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 > > ounce > > > > pond > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > > > > priced > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is > all > > > > that's > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > necessary. > > > > One > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > medication > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > Prazipro. > > > > Both > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, > and > > > > for > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > > > > little > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro > > will > > > > also > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to > the > > > > source > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 > of > > > > Jungles > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on > the > > > > bottom > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > > > > choice, > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they > relaxed > > > > too > > > > > much. > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > > > > some is > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able > to > > > > see > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the > Tetra > > > > food > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other > > two - > > > > not > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > > > > has > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, > but > > > > most > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color > and > > > > shiny, > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > > > > probably > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > > > > is set > > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic > tank > > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > > > > scraped > > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > > concerned > > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > > > > related > > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > > > instructions > > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," > following > > > > a 25% > > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > > > > put the > > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > > before we > > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up > on > > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > > > > sales. > > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them > healthy > > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > > > > stripped > > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > > > > slate- > > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them > > from > > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > > > > what I'd > > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > > > > as > > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > > discouraging. > > > > > If, by > > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near > the > > > > > surface > > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > > > > glass > > > > > in > > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > > > > at the > > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > > > > not > > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > > > > by the > > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > > > > bouyed > > > > > up at > > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > > > > bladders > > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they > are > > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > > > > choice > > > > > rather > > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > > > possible > > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > > > > on > > > > > their > > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > > > > and > > > > > is > > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > > > > being > > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > > > > written > > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going > on > > > > and > > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > > > > something > > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > > temperature? > > > > > Are > > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > > > > you > > > > > have > > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > > > extent as > > > > > to > > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > > > > may > > > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > > > > the > > > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > > > > up to > > > > > 55 > > > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the > glass, > > > > as > > > > > again > > > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > > > > support) > > > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > > > bond/seal > > > > > between > > > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > > > > yet > > > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing - > - > > > > and > > > > > Lenny > > > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > > > > joints, > > > > > you > > > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > > > > choice) > > > > > in re- > > > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > > > > environment > > > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > > > > reptile > > > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, > only > > > > to be > > > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > > > > fish > > > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > > > > elevated > > > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > > > > all > > > > > the medical > > > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long > stay > > > > in > > > > > the hospital > > > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > > > > to be > > > > > absorbed > > > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and > cleaned > > > > out > > > > > by their > > > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going > on > > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > > > > at the > > > > > surface, > > > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the > filter > > > > > return. The > > > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > > > > All > > > > > the agitation > > > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > > > > there > > > > > is more gas > > > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > > > waves. > > > > > The up/down > > > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > > > > of a > > > > > tank > > > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > > > since they > > > > > do not > > > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > > > > I > > > > > guess if it was > > > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > > > > removing all the > > > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > > > > a > > > > > price. I've > > > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > > > > that > > > > > used to have > > > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > > > > year. > > > > > Tell them > > > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > > > > to > > > > > about $25.00. > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > > > > that > > > > > shouldn't > > > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > > > > plastic > > > > > of the same > > > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to > make > > > > sure > > > > > the front > > > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > > > someone > > > > > removed that > > > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > > > > where > > > > > the glass had > > > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > > > over 400 > > > > > pounds of > > > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > > > > let me > > > > > know. I > > > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > > > Fungus > > > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 > of > > > > > Jungle > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her > chin > > > > (do > > > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > > > > CB > > > > > also > > > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > > > > there. > > > > > And > > > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > > > > up > > > > > every > > > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > > > > problem > > > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > > > wouldn't they > > > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > > > > the > > > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > > > Craigslist > > > > > for > > > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > > > resealing, > > > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > > > > out > > > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > > > > the > > > > > plastic > > > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > > > > accept a > > > > > fish > > > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > > > I see > > > > > that > > > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > > > > this > > > > > tank > > > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted my Excel log on the files page so you can > > > > see > > > > > how I > > > > > > figured my salt levels. > > > > > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ Look for DebRs Salt levels. Click on the > > > > boxes to > > > > > see > > > > > > the formula I used to get each value. There's actually > > > > only 18G > > > > > of > > > > > > water in the tank, now, since I lowered the water to get > > > > more > > > > > > aeration. For one of the PWCs I removed 5G, but only > > > > returned 3G > > > > > > (and 3T salt) and the last PWC I removed 3G and returned > > > > 3G, but > > > > > only > > > > > > added 2T of salt instead of 3T. From here on in, I'll be > > > > > removing > > > > > > and returning equal amounts of water and treating every 1G > > > > of > > > > > water > > > > > > replaced with 1T of salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm using the API test kit. The ammonia and > > > > nitrite > > > > > levels > > > > > > were lower. The "<" in front of the .25ppm means "lower > > > > than". > > > > > > Sorry. I should have written that out. I bought the test > > > > kit a > > > > > > little over 1 year ago. I can't see any expiration date > > > > anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CB is better, but still not A1. Raven is really > > > > > dragging. > > > > > > I just hope she (?) can hang in there until the Fungus > > > > Clear > > > > > starts > > > > > > working. I used the 20G (2 tablets) dose even though > > > > there's > > > > > only > > > > > > 18G of water in the tank. I'm thinking that extra little > > > > bit > > > > > won't > > > > > > make that much of a difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sheesh! It was less work nursing my husband back > > > > from > > > > > his > > > > > > broken hip over the summer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:58 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In reading this, your most recent post on this > > > > subject, I > > > > > find > > > > > > the > > > > > > > need to question your present salt content and your > > > > methods > > > > > > with > > > > > > > which you are coming to the conclusion of these > > > > levels -- > > > > > only > > > > > > if to > > > > > > > clarify the present amount of salinity. I am glad to > > > > see > > > > > > that "Carol > > > > > > > B" is acting more normal, and hoping she (he?) has > > > > improved > > > > > > even > > > > > > > further (and especially Raven, which didn't sound to > > > > be > > > > > quite > > > > > > as well > > > > > > > last time I was following). Any such treatments will > > > > not > > > > > see > > > > > > > immediate results, but will always take some time in > > > > > > recuperating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for your previous salt levels, the last I saw it > > > > was at > > > > > 3.7 > > > > > > tsp > > > > > > > per gallon. You've apparently done two (?) 25% water > > > > > changes > > > > > > since. > > > > > > > If this is only "half-correct," -- one 25% PWC would > > > > have > > > > > > reduced > > > > > > > your 3.7 tsp per gallon salt content to 2.775 tsp per > > > > > gallon. > > > > > > If > > > > > > > you've done two 25% PWC's, as you seem to have said, > > > > this > > > > > would > > > > > > now > > > > > > > reduce your salt level to 2.157 tsp per gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I'm gather what you're saying about doing two 25% > > > > PWC's > > > > > > since last > > > > > > > having your salt content at 3.7 tsp per gallon, I'm > > > > now > > > > > > wondering if > > > > > > > even that level was correct in your method of > > > > figuring. > > > > > Maybe > > > > > > you > > > > > > > could clarify this further if this is not the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I notice your nitrate has come down, but it would > > > > seem that > > > > > > your > > > > > > > ammonia and nitrite should also have been reduced, > > > > > especially > > > > > > with > > > > > > > two PWC's in one day. I find myself questioning > > > > these > > > > > results > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well, and have to ask if you're using test strips > > > > (which > > > > > can > > > > > > often > > > > > > > give erroneous results) or liquid tests (and whether > > > > the > > > > > > reagents may > > > > > > > be out-dated). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 9 of salt) (Beginning > > > > > Jungles' > > > > > > Fungus > > > > > > > Cure) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - CB acting a bit more normal today morning, bit > > > > still > > > > > not > > > > > > as > > > > > > > energetic as yesterday morning > > > > > > > > - PWC @ 9PM - Salt now down to approximately > > > > 3.4tsp/G > > > > > > > > - Fungus Clear @ 9:45PM (2 tabs/20G) > > > > > > > > - Tank Readings (keep in mind I've done 2 PWCs > > > > since > > > > > > yesterday's > > > > > > > readings): pH: 7.5; Ammonia: <.25ppm; Nitrite: > > > > <.25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > > 10ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I feel like I'm forgetting something. No clue > > > > what it > > > > > is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:24 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, thanks. Looks like I lost track of that > > > > part and > > > > > > missed it > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > all the threads. Well, at least this shows your > > > > source > > > > > > water is > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > to blame for these levels. As for nitrAte, that > > > > is not > > > > > as > > > > > > > injurious > > > > > > > > or dangerous to fish as are ammonia and nitrite. > > > > While > > > > > we > > > > > > strive > > > > > > > > optimumly keep it at 20 ppm or below (as low as > > > > we > > > > > can), > > > > > > there is > > > > > > > > nothing wrong with it going to 40 ppm for most > > > > fish as > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > considered within acceptable limits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your nitrate does approach 20 ppm > > > > shows > > > > > your > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > cycling well in its last stage. Larger and/or > > > > more > > > > > > frequent > > > > > > > PWC's > > > > > > > > will keep it under control. Once you get things > > > > > > straightened out > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > might want to consider adding live plants, at > > > > least > > > > > ones > > > > > > that the > > > > > > > > goldfish won't eat -- unless you don't mind > > > > adding some > > > > > to > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > menu. Live plants will use this nitrate as part > > > > of > > > > > their > > > > > > food, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > BTW, I might add that goldfish love Anacharis as > > > > part > > > > > of > > > > > > their > > > > > > > diet > > > > > > > > so don't attempt to keep that plant around long- > > > > term if > > > > > you > > > > > > add > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason to suspect that you can't add > > > > > medications > > > > > > to > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > having salt in it, although I would suggest > > > > changing > > > > > out > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > > to get the salt level no less than 3 tsp per > > > > gallon. > > > > > > You're not > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > far off that now and the 0.7 tsp per gallon may > > > > not > > > > > make > > > > > > that > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > difference, but I would reduce it to a helpful > > > > minimum > > > > > of 3 > > > > > > tsp > > > > > > > per > > > > > > > > gallon which would be more within the goldfish's > > > > > tolerable > > > > > > > range. > > > > > > > > Goldfish do not tolerate medium to high levels of > > > > salt, > > > > > > even > > > > > > > though > > > > > > > > you may see up to 5 tsp per gallon recommended > > > > for them > > > > > on > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > sites. Five tsp per gallon for freshwater fish > > > > is > > > > > > approaching, > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > not in, the medium range of allowable salt > > > > levels. > > > > > > Cyprinidae > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > right behind Charicidae when it comes to salt > > > > > toleration -- > > > > > > they > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > take more but not by a whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The general question of whether you can add > > > > medications > > > > > > while > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is salt in the water is a good one though, as > > > > some > > > > > > medications > > > > > > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Blister?

I wouldn't pop it. Maybe if you had a quarantine tank with pristine water quality where you would have a better chance of not getting it infected. Also, you would have to anesthetize the fish to pop it. I would just take a wait and see since these kinds of cysts or growths are often benign and do not bother the fish. If it's air-filled, you'll start to see buoyancy issues at which time it might then need popping but if fluid filled, it may not bother the fish at all or even go away on its own. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Greymane Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:44 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Blister? None of the other fish in the tank have anything like it. It was not there the day before. The fish seems normal in all respects except for the blister. It appears to be just like a blister... clear but I cannot tell if it has a fluid in it or if it is air. Would you suggest popping the blister and letting melafix heal it up? That has been my inclination, but willing to listen to other's suggestions. Grey ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:58:08 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Blister? Did that really pop up overnight? I doubt that Melafix will be of any use unless/until it pops and then Melafix might be useful as a topical antibacterial to aid in healing. In the goldfish/Koi industry, there is an issue with KHV (Koi Herpes Virus) and variants that can cause blistering type growths in the fins but they are usually not clear like that and don't happen overnight. The virus in Koi/goldfish is similar to the human fever blister on lips caused by the variant of the herpes virus... meaning it's usually a dormant virus that causes issues when the carrier is stressed. If it is related to KHV, then you would want to improve water quality (if that's an issue) and remove any other stressors (aggressive fish, etc.) to prevent further outbreaks. From checking the images on this page http://tinyurl.com/2m83ee, <http://tinyurl.com/2m83ee,> it seems other fish have had similar occurrences and they associate it with a cyst or cancerous growth. Look at the images and see if you think it's the same and/or do a Google search on some of the diagnostic terms used to find other pictures/information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Blister? Today I had a blister-like growth on the dorsal fin of one of my German Blue angels. Has anyone any experience with something like this? I have isolated the fish in a quarantine tank and have introduced some melafix. Any suggestions? Pic links below. http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg> <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg> > http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg> <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg> > http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg> <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg> > http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg> <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34767	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: OT: unsub from grouply

I sent a link for the official Grouply unsubscribe page. Maybe Yahoo lost it. Here it is again. http://www.grouply.com/unsubscribe.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: unsub from grouply Remind me tomorrow, off list, and I will send you something that may help her. I probably will not have time to look it up until late tomorrow or Thursday. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Darlene > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: unsub from grouply > > If your friend is having problems with the invites, the links (note the plural) are at the > bottom of the e-mail. One is to block the one person, the other is to block all. There is also a > third link, but the result of using it does not come to mind at the moment. > > > > her problem is they somehow got hold of her email addresses & now everything she > posts/emails to everyone ends up on the grouply web site. > she has never joined grouply so does not understand how they got her email addresses in the > first place..... or how to stop it > she was told she has to unsub ............ how do you unsub when you never joined in the first place > ???? > > Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34768	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Blister?

Hi Grey, Good to see your postings again, but not necessarily under these circumstances. While I've never seen anything quite like this on Angelfish, mainly as these abnormalities are rare, I have seen similar parasite-caused cysts caused by a trematatode (Clinostomum complanatum and/or C. marginatum) mostly in wild fish in which this cyst is the intermediate (larval) stage between its egg which infects a snail species (of the Genus Helisoma) and a fish-eating bird (Heron, for instance) in which it reaches its adult stage. This usually doesn't affect the fish in the least; it may have been originally picked up at a Florida fish farm if this is where the fish was reared, but you don't say how long its been like this although it seems to be rather sudden. It can also be caused by a number of other parasites of protozoan origin such as Cyclochaetiasis, Chilodontiasis and Costiasis. Costia is the most dangerous of these three and while salt treatments are often effective against the first two, treatment for this disease requires a formalin solution for best results. Unfortunately, they cannot be told apart except under a microscope. Then too, these blisters can be caused by a disease known as Lymphocystis (bacterial), although these grow slowly and would have been seen much earlier. Viral infection may be a cause and cannot be ruled out, so it's really difficult to diagnose. From the appearance of this, it looks to possibly be tumorous, rather than any of the previous pathogens and noting its position out beyond the confines of much other tissue, I see no reason why a quick and careful snip with a nail clipper would not entirely remove it intact (to be retrieved and disposed of) without affecting the integrity of the dorsal fin. A topical application of an antibiotic, such as mercurochrome if available, should then be administered. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, ''Grey'' Greymane <huron62@...> wrote: > > > None of the other fish in the tank have anything like it. It was not there the day before. The fish seems normal in all respects except for the blister. It appears to be just like a blister... clear but I cannot tell if it has a fluid in it or if it is air. Would you suggest popping the blister and letting melafix heal it up? That has been my inclination, but willing to listen to other's suggestions. > > Grey > ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: GoldLenny@... > Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:58:08 -0600 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Blister? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did that really pop up overnight? I doubt that Melafix will be of any use > > unless/until it pops and then Melafix might be useful as a topical > > antibacterial to aid in healing. > > > > In the goldfish/Koi industry, there is an issue with KHV (Koi Herpes Virus) > > and variants that can cause blistering type growths in the fins but they are > > usually not clear like that and don't happen overnight. The virus in > > Koi/goldfish is similar to the human fever blister on lips caused by the > > variant of the herpes virus... meaning it's usually a dormant virus that > > causes issues when the carrier is stressed. > > > > If it is related to KHV, then you would want to improve water quality (if > > that's an issue) and remove any other stressors (aggressive fish, etc.) to > > prevent further outbreaks. > > > > From checking the images on this page http://tinyurl.com/2m83ee, it seems > > other fish have had similar occurrences and they associate it with a cyst or > > cancerous growth. Look at the images and see if you think it's the same > > and/or do a Google search on some of the diagnostic terms used to find other > > pictures/information. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Jim > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Blister? > > > > Today I had a blister-like growth on the dorsal fin of one of my German Blue > > angels. Has anyone any experience with something like this? I have isolated > > the fish in a quarantine tank and have introduced some melafix. Any > > suggestions? Pic links below. > > > > http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg > > <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-079S.jpg> > > http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg > > <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-080S.jpg> > > http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg > > <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-081S.jpg> > > http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg > > <http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/SmokyMtnGrey/MVC-082S.jpg> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34769	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

OK, I just realized which post you were asking about. The reference to their growth was just because they're bigger and need more O2. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface circulation as would an airstone. I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even if imperceptibly. My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths when even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34770	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the Amquel+, I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection between the Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so focused on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a couple of days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She has got to be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I think she's about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about the same size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all three and realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were in a 10G tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface circulation as would an airstone. I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even if imperceptibly. My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths when even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned having > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower the water > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last resort, > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond and > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert with > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ alone > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been reports > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the oxygen > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine added > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than one > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to ensure > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a link > to the > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the > other files > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > writing info > > sheets. lol! > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day doesn't > do the > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should > have arrived > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > almost twice > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big > tank as > > soon as possible. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one less > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if the > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the token > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 Gallons > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, like > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in your > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel Sheet > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can avoid > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change > (and > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of your > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise get > > rough on your fish. > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I had > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I hate > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least address > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product being > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > ammonium > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This should > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to avoid > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing out > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce your > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your > cycle > > should be near complete. > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same time > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 tsp/G > of > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know you've > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the salt > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has trouble > > with > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess if > > they both > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on the > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the salt > > level and > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > 20Chemistry/ > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets the > > ammonia > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing it) > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > > PWC. The > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it > > yesterday > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting > on > > the > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is the > > stronger > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get worse, > > I'll > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > > lower. Will > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > this?); > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline hadn't > > been zero, > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on doing > a > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want to > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, > which > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of your > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around > noon > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly > (I > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote you a > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > seconds > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here was > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame my > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), but > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts > to > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct > any > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of the > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem > here. > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). On > > the > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content > was > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon that > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended > on > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on any > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that > > > day). > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing when > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you REPLACED 1 > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided > not > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a 2 > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another > PWC > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less > > than > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing > the > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out any > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely > > mild > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope all > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post of > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as it > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if > it > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which might > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said > the > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day > of > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > PraziPro. > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > > nothing > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal parasite > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay to > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will > have > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > nitrite > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these > levels > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > nitrogenous > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to your > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, > you > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these levels > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than PetSmart > > and > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to > find > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but it > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, > but > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I was > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry > > that > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last two > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually > came > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought > that > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. > I > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving > the > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > > stress > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold > again > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LOWER > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything > > else > > > without > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > > potential for > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of constipation... > > > and it's also > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a > week > > > or so just > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > system > > > disorders.. > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for a > > few > > > days which > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > > Maracyn > > > 2? And > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt > to > > > this last > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the rest > of > > > the meds. > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with > too > > > much meds. > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day of > > > just fresh > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to > rest > > > between > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean > > fresh > > > air for > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any meds > > > that are > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only > the > > > PWC's will > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering Tetra > > > flakes, > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe the > > > carbs will > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance to > > > work. If it > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS > that > > > might help > > > > until Monday? > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > > There's a tiny > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. Adding > > > anything to > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish CB > > off. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming > here > > > to the 20G. > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when > the > > > previous > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since > > these > > > three > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of > the > > > wax. > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may > be > > a > > > bit > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, > > > remains to be > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on > the > > > fish before > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at > the > > > Christmas > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to even > > > care about > > > > that. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > retention > > > due to > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > hopefully she'll > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by stunting > so > > > it wasn't > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank (or > > > same size > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of water), > > she > > > is growing > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > > Hopefully, they > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't > there > > > and I don't > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > > > goldfish in the > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate age) > > > What size > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they have > > > been in from > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 and .50ppm; > > > Nitrite: > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since > the > > > last PWC. > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any fungus > at > > > bay until I > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking > thing > > > occasionally > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they > > > arrived about 3 > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and CB. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and will > go > > > down to > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs Salt > > > Levels" for > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, since > > > there isn't > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but > after > > > exertion > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking > of > > > the head, > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is > > > eating and > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's > not > > > eating at > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your nitrogen > > > cycle nearly > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > nitrifying > > > bacteria > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite so > > > you should > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's to > > > keep nitrates > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > > > gallon) of > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring it > > > down to > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, you'll > > > bring the > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the > 0.285% > > > down to > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > > number). You will > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of > the > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 > of > > > those, you > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no > > > longer be > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any > kinds > > of > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a > slow > > > gulping > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with > > salt) > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > > probably what > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > over .25ppm; > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level > and > > > today's > > > > PWC) > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion and > > > that choking > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the > > salt > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been eliminated. > > > When > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > especially > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another treatment > of > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > > reduced. > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just a > > bit > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the > form > > > of > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > > treating > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > adjusting > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish > will > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen > and > > > will > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of > your > > > not > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also noticed > > > your > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits > > (high > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more > > > frequent > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't > want > > > to > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing remainder > of > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - > 15ppm > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB and > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they have > > > been. > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes > she's > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). I > > did > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing > > > this. > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One pellets > > > from > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What > I'm > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > pretty > > > much > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm not > > > sure > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > > > Jungles > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still > spent > > > most > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times when > > > Raven > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back > corner > > > for a > > > > bit. > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > continuity- > > -- > > > -- > > > > ---------------- > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it was > > ok. > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and off > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' > symptoms > > > up > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I could > > > have > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had > clamped > > > fins > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom I'm > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave are > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message---------------- -- > -- > > - > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > > > > column, it > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > > > bladders, as > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces though > > > > would > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > > > > being a > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > > > bacterial. > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > Goldfish, > > > > and > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > (roundworms) > > > > they > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms > when > > > > they > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > > infections > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > > > impossible > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > > > clearing up > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > > > medications > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite > issues. > > > > Since > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go > with > > > > the > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with > the > > > > fungus > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > > > > (unless you > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to have > > > > shipped > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > > > another 4 > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > > > > should > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for > > this > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for its > > > > normal > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water > for > > > > an > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > > > > treatment > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > > > > in > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing agent) - > - > > > > the > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you > can't > > > > find > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you > can't, > > > > contact > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy > this > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > > > > (treats > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 oz.@ > > > > $32.74 > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > > > effective as > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > > > mention for > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by Hikari > in > > > > a > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats > 3200 > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats > 12,800 > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If one > > > > can use > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 > > ounce > > > > pond > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is similarly > > > > priced > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is > all > > > > that's > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > necessary. > > > > One > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > medication > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > Prazipro. > > > > Both > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, > and > > > > for > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > > > > little > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro > > will > > > > also > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to > the > > > > source > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 > of > > > > Jungles > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on > the > > > > bottom > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was their > > > > choice, > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they > relaxed > > > > too > > > > > much. > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned in a > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > > > > some is > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able > to > > > > see > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the > Tetra > > > > food > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other > > two - > > > > not > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven still > > > > has > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, > but > > > > most > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color > and > > > > shiny, > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking that's > > > > probably > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house thermostat > > > > is set > > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic > tank > > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > > > > scraped > > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > > concerned > > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > > > > related > > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > > > instructions > > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," > following > > > > a 25% > > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, or > > > > put the > > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > > before we > > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up > on > > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > > > > sales. > > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them > healthy > > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to be > > > > stripped > > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > > > > slate- > > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them > > from > > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't know > > > > what I'd > > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be seen > > > > as > > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > > discouraging. > > > > > If, by > > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near > the > > > > > surface > > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against the > > > > glass > > > > > in > > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also gulp > > > > at the > > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they would > > > > not > > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being created > > > > by the > > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > > > > bouyed > > > > > up at > > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their swim > > > > > bladders > > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they > are > > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > > > > choice > > > > > rather > > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > > > possible > > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal issues > > > > on > > > > > their > > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up any, > > > > and > > > > > is > > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without actually > > > > being > > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > > > > written > > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going > on > > > > and > > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never seen > > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > > > > something > > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > > temperature? > > > > > Are > > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently become > > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain if > > > > you > > > > > have > > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > > > extent as > > > > > to > > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco (or > > > > may > > > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > > > > the > > > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all tanks > > > > up to > > > > > 55 > > > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch for > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the > glass, > > > > as > > > > > again > > > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of reduced > > > > > support) > > > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > > > bond/seal > > > > > between > > > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have not > > > > yet > > > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs resealing - > - > > > > and > > > > > Lenny > > > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > > > > joints, > > > > > you > > > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > > > > choice) > > > > > in re- > > > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > > > > environment > > > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, any > > > > > reptile > > > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, > only > > > > to be > > > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank for > > > > fish > > > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with highly > > > > > elevated > > > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now from > > > > all > > > > > the medical > > > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long > stay > > > > in > > > > > the hospital > > > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > > > > to be > > > > > absorbed > > > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and > cleaned > > > > out > > > > > by their > > > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going > on > > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, gulping > > > > at the > > > > > surface, > > > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the > filter > > > > > return. The > > > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they breath. > > > > All > > > > > the agitation > > > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface so > > > > there > > > > > is more gas > > > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > > > waves. > > > > > The up/down > > > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface area > > > > of a > > > > > tank > > > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > > > since they > > > > > do not > > > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, etc. > > > > I > > > > > guess if it was > > > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank by > > > > > removing all the > > > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good of > > > > a > > > > > price. I've > > > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > > > > that > > > > > used to have > > > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > > > > year. > > > > > Tell them > > > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them down > > > > to > > > > > about $25.00. > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > > > > that > > > > > shouldn't > > > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > > > > plastic > > > > > of the same > > > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to > make > > > > sure > > > > > the front > > > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > > > someone > > > > > removed that > > > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > > > > where > > > > > the glass had > > > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > > > over 400 > > > > > pounds of > > > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > > > > let me > > > > > know. I > > > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > > > side > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > > > Fungus > > > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 > of > > > > > Jungle > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on the > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her > chin > > > > (do > > > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back corner. > > > > CB > > > > > also > > > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just hang > > > > there. > > > > > And > > > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there snarfing > > > > up > > > > > every > > > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > > > > problem > > > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > > > wouldn't they > > > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming from > > > > the > > > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > > > Craigslist > > > > > for > > > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > > > resealing, > > > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > > > > out > > > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > > > > the > > > > > plastic > > > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > > > > accept a > > > > > fish > > > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > > > I see > > > > > that > > > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in case > > > > this > > > > > tank > > > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34771	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Other than their health issues, which we'll get you through, it sounds like they're doing well. You probably mentioned their size somewhere, and I may have seen it or maybe not (I don't recall that right now). About how big are they? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > OK, I just realized which post you were asking about. The reference to > their growth was just because they're bigger and need more O2. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > circulation as would an airstone. > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even > if imperceptibly. > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths when > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34772	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You can grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly obvious. Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only be from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice to use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with the PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 gallon tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. Always nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. Any improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep us posted. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the Amquel+, > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection between the > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so focused > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a couple of > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She has got to > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I think she's > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about the same > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all three and > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were in a 10G > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > circulation as would an airstone. > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even > if imperceptibly. > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths when > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned > having > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower the > water > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last > resort, > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond and > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert with > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ > alone > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been reports > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the oxygen > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine > added > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than one > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to ensure > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a link > > to the > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the > > other files > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > writing info > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day doesn't > > do the > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should > > have arrived > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > > almost twice > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big > > tank as > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one less > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if > the > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the token > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 Gallons > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, like > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in your > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel Sheet > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can avoid > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change > > (and > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of your > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise > get > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I > had > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I hate > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > address > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product > being > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > ammonium > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This should > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to > avoid > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing > out > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce > your > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your > > cycle > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same time > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 tsp/G > > of > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know you've > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the > salt > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > trouble > > > with > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess if > > > they both > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on the > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the > salt > > > level and > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets > the > > > ammonia > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing > it) > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > > > PWC. The > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it > > > yesterday > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting > > on > > > the > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is > the > > > stronger > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get > worse, > > > I'll > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > > > lower. Will > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > > this?); > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > hadn't > > > been zero, > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity----------- -- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on > doing > > a > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want > to > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, > > which > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of > your > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around > > noon > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly > > (I > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote > you a > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > > seconds > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here > was > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame > my > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), > but > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts > > to > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct > > any > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of > the > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem > > here. > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). > On > > > the > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content > > was > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon > that > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended > > on > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on > any > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that > > > > day). > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing > when > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > REPLACED 1 > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided > > not > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a > 2 > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another > > PWC > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less > > > than > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing > > the > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out > any > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely > > > mild > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope > all > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post > of > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as > it > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if > > it > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which > might > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said > > the > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day > > of > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > > > nothing > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > parasite > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay > to > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will > > have > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > > nitrite > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these > > levels > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > nitrogenous > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to > your > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, > > you > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > levels > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > PetSmart > > > and > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to > > find > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but > it > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, > > but > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I > was > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry > > > that > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last > two > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually > > came > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought > > that > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. > > I > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving > > the > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > > > stress > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold > > again > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO > LOWER > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything > > > else > > > > without > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > > > potential for > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > constipation... > > > > and it's also > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a > > week > > > > or so just > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > > system > > > > disorders.. > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for > a > > > few > > > > days which > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > > > Maracyn > > > > 2? And > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt > > to > > > > this last > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the > rest > > of > > > > the meds. > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with > > too > > > > much meds. > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day > of > > > > just fresh > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to > > rest > > > > between > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean > > > fresh > > > > air for > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any > meds > > > > that are > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only > > the > > > > PWC's will > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > under .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering > Tetra > > > > flakes, > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe > the > > > > carbs will > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance > to > > > > work. If it > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS > > that > > > > might help > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > Adding > > > > anything to > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish > CB > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming > > here > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when > > the > > > > previous > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since > > > these > > > > three > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of > > the > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may > > be > > > a > > > > bit > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, > > > > remains to be > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on > > the > > > > fish before > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at > > the > > > > Christmas > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to > even > > > > care about > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > retention > > > > due to > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > stunting > > so > > > > it wasn't > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank > (or > > > > same size > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > water), > > > she > > > > is growing > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't > > there > > > > and I don't > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate > age) > > > > What size > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they > have > > > > been in from > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > and .50ppm; > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since > > the > > > > last PWC. > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > fungus > > at > > > > bay until I > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking > > thing > > > > occasionally > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and > CB. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and > will > > go > > > > down to > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs > Salt > > > > Levels" for > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, > since > > > > there isn't > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but > > after > > > > exertion > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking > > of > > > > the head, > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is > > > > eating and > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's > > not > > > > eating at > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > nitrogen > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite > so > > > > you should > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's > to > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > > > > gallon) of > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring > it > > > > down to > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, > you'll > > > > bring the > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the > > 0.285% > > > > down to > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > > > number). You will > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of > > the > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 > > of > > > > those, you > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no > > > > longer be > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any > > kinds > > > of > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a > > slow > > > > gulping > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with > > > salt) > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > > > probably what > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level > > and > > > > today's > > > > > PWC) > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion > and > > > > that choking > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the > > > salt > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > eliminated. > > > > When > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > > especially > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > treatment > > of > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > > > reduced. > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just > a > > > bit > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the > > form > > > > of > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > > > treating > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > adjusting > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish > > will > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen > > and > > > > will > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of > > your > > > > not > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > noticed > > > > your > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits > > > (high > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more > > > > frequent > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't > > want > > > > to > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > remainder > > of > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - > > 15ppm > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB > and > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they > have > > > > been. > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes > > she's > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). > I > > > did > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing > > > > this. > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > pellets > > > > from > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What > > I'm > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > > pretty > > > > much > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm > not > > > > sure > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > > > > Jungles > > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still > > spent > > > > most > > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times > when > > > > Raven > > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back > > corner > > > > for a > > > > > bit. > > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > > continuity- > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it > was > > > ok. > > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and > off > > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' > > symptoms > > > > up > > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I > could > > > > have > > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had > > clamped > > > > fins > > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom > I'm > > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave > are > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message-------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > > > > > column, it > > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > > > > bladders, as > > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces > though > > > > > would > > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > > > > > being a > > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > > > > bacterial. > > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > > Goldfish, > > > > > and > > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > > (roundworms) > > > > > they > > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms > > when > > > > > they > > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > > > infections > > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > > > > impossible > > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > > > > clearing up > > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > > > > medications > > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite > > issues. > > > > > Since > > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with > > the > > > > > fungus > > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > > > > > (unless you > > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to > have > > > > > shipped > > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > > > > another 4 > > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > > > > > should > > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for > > > this > > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for > its > > > > > normal > > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water > > for > > > > > an > > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > > > > > treatment > > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > > > > > in > > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing > agent) - > > - > > > > > the > > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you > > can't > > > > > find > > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you > > can't, > > > > > contact > > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy > > this > > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > > > > > (treats > > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 > oz.@ > > > > > $32.74 > > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > > > > effective as > > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > > > > mention for > > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by > Hikari > > in > > > > > a > > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats > > 3200 > > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats > > 12,800 > > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If > one > > > > > can use > > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 > > > ounce > > > > > pond > > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is > similarly > > > > > priced > > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is > > all > > > > > that's > > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > > necessary. > > > > > One > > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > > medication > > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > > Prazipro. > > > > > Both > > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, > > and > > > > > for > > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > > > > > little > > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro > > > will > > > > > also > > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to > > the > > > > > source > > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 > > of > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on > > the > > > > > bottom > > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was > their > > > > > choice, > > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they > > relaxed > > > > > too > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned > in a > > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > > > > > some is > > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able > > to > > > > > see > > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the > > Tetra > > > > > food > > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other > > > two - > > > > > not > > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven > still > > > > > has > > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, > > but > > > > > most > > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color > > and > > > > > shiny, > > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking > that's > > > > > probably > > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house > thermostat > > > > > is set > > > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic > > tank > > > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > > > > > scraped > > > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > > > concerned > > > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > > > > > related > > > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > > > > instructions > > > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," > > following > > > > > a 25% > > > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, > or > > > > > put the > > > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > > > before we > > > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up > > on > > > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > > > > > sales. > > > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them > > healthy > > > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to > be > > > > > stripped > > > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > > > > > slate- > > > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them > > > from > > > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't > know > > > > > what I'd > > > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be > seen > > > > > as > > > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > > > discouraging. > > > > > > If, by > > > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near > > the > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against > the > > > > > glass > > > > > > in > > > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also > gulp > > > > > at the > > > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they > would > > > > > not > > > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being > created > > > > > by the > > > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > > > > > bouyed > > > > > > up at > > > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their > swim > > > > > > bladders > > > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they > > are > > > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > > > > > choice > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > > > > possible > > > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal > issues > > > > > on > > > > > > their > > > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up > any, > > > > > and > > > > > > is > > > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without > actually > > > > > being > > > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > > > > > written > > > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going > > on > > > > > and > > > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never > seen > > > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > > > > > something > > > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > Are > > > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently > become > > > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain > if > > > > > you > > > > > > have > > > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > > > > extent as > > > > > > to > > > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco > (or > > > > > may > > > > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > > > > > the > > > > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all > tanks > > > > > up to > > > > > > 55 > > > > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch > for > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the > > glass, > > > > > as > > > > > > again > > > > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of > reduced > > > > > > support) > > > > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > > > > bond/seal > > > > > > between > > > > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have > not > > > > > yet > > > > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs > resealing - > > - > > > > > and > > > > > > Lenny > > > > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > > > > > joints, > > > > > > you > > > > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > > > > > choice) > > > > > > in re- > > > > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > > > > > environment > > > > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, > any > > > > > > reptile > > > > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, > > only > > > > > to be > > > > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank > for > > > > > fish > > > > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with > highly > > > > > > elevated > > > > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now > from > > > > > all > > > > > > the medical > > > > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long > > stay > > > > > in > > > > > > the hospital > > > > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > > > > > to be > > > > > > absorbed > > > > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and > > cleaned > > > > > out > > > > > > by their > > > > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going > > on > > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, > gulping > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface, > > > > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the > > filter > > > > > > return. The > > > > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they > breath. > > > > > All > > > > > > the agitation > > > > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface > so > > > > > there > > > > > > is more gas > > > > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > > > > waves. > > > > > > The up/down > > > > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface > area > > > > > of a > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > > > > since they > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, > etc. > > > > > I > > > > > > guess if it was > > > > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank > by > > > > > > removing all the > > > > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good > of > > > > > a > > > > > > price. I've > > > > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > > > > > that > > > > > > used to have > > > > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > > > > > year. > > > > > > Tell them > > > > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them > down > > > > > to > > > > > > about $25.00. > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > > > > > that > > > > > > shouldn't > > > > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > > > > > plastic > > > > > > of the same > > > > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to > > make > > > > > sure > > > > > > the front > > > > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > > > > someone > > > > > > removed that > > > > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > > > > > where > > > > > > the glass had > > > > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > > > > over 400 > > > > > > pounds of > > > > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > > > > > let me > > > > > > know. I > > > > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > > > > side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > > > > Fungus > > > > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 > > of > > > > > > Jungle > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on > the > > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her > > chin > > > > > (do > > > > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back > corner. > > > > > CB > > > > > > also > > > > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just > hang > > > > > there. > > > > > > And > > > > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there > snarfing > > > > > up > > > > > > every > > > > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > > > > > problem > > > > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > > > > wouldn't they > > > > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming > from > > > > > the > > > > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > > > > Craigslist > > > > > > for > > > > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > > > > resealing, > > > > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > > > > > out > > > > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > > > > > the > > > > > > plastic > > > > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > > > > > accept a > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > > > > I see > > > > > > that > > > > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in > case > > > > > this > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34773	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

I taped a ruler to the side of the tank and Raven obliged by hovering next to it. Raven is 1 1/2" from nose to tail base. CB is about the same length, but slimmer. Lucille is about 2" and has a more disk-shape to her, so body mass wise she's probably 3 or 4 times as big as CB. I was kind of surprised that they weren't a bit larger. They're definitely bigger than they were when they got here and Lucille is just huge compared to a month ago. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Other than their health issues, which we'll get you through, it sounds like they're doing well. You probably mentioned their size somewhere, and I may have seen it or maybe not (I don't recall that right now). About how big are they? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > OK, I just realized which post you were asking about. The reference to > their growth was just because they're bigger and need more O2. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > circulation as would an airstone. > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even > if imperceptibly. > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths when > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34774	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Sexing Goldfish

Is there any way to tell male from female goldfish???

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34775	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Sexing Goldfish

When you see them chasing each other around, LOL! Seroiusly, when I got a Lutino parakeet, it took the female parakeet to figure it out. Grin. They were inseparable at first sight. The new one was isolated, so they were glued to the cage bars. And when he was allowed to fly free, guess where he went? Some quarantine. He was feeding his intended through the bars. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "*Carol Lynn*" <childofgod19832003@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Sexing Goldfish Is there any way to tell male from female goldfish??? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34776	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

I noticed how big my severum has gotten the last month or so and I agree as to how you can suddenly realize how much they have grown. When I got my severum he was only about an inch long, now he's easily 3 1/2 inches and growing strong, LOL. My angel's are now smaller than he is (not including their long fins), I'm surprised that he overtook them in size when they are older though. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You can > grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly obvious. > Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when > seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only be > from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice to > use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen > depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. > > With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover > medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed > stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with the > PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 gallon > tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. Always > nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. Any > improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that > eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will > address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it > becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up > bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that > route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep us > posted. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the > Amquel+, > > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection > between the > > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so > focused > > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a > couple of > > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She > has got to > > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I > think she's > > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about > the same > > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all > three and > > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were > in a 10G > > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > > circulation as would an airstone. > > > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or > > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your > > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration > > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen > > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how > > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even > > if imperceptibly. > > > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths > when > > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit > > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned > > having > > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower > the > > water > > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last > > resort, > > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond > and > > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used > > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert > with > > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ > > alone > > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been > reports > > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the > oxygen > > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine > > added > > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than > one > > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an > > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to > ensure > > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a > link > > > to the > > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the > > > other files > > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > > writing info > > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day > doesn't > > > do the > > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should > > > have arrived > > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > > > almost twice > > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big > > > tank as > > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one > less > > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if > > the > > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the > token > > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 > Gallons > > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, > like > > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in > your > > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel > Sheet > > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can > avoid > > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change > > > (and > > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of > your > > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise > > get > > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I > > had > > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I > hate > > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > > address > > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product > > being > > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > > ammonium > > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This > should > > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to > > avoid > > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing > > out > > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce > > your > > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your > > > cycle > > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same > time > > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 > tsp/G > > > of > > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know > you've > > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the > > salt > > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > > trouble > > > > with > > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess > if > > > > they both > > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on > the > > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the > > salt > > > > level and > > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets > > the > > > > ammonia > > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing > > it) > > > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > > > > PWC. The > > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower > it > > > > yesterday > > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer > sitting > > > on > > > > the > > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is > > the > > > > stronger > > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get > > worse, > > > > I'll > > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > > > > lower. Will > > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > > > this?); > > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > > hadn't > > > > been zero, > > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity----------- > -- > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on > > doing > > > a > > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did > want > > to > > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, > > > which > > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of > > your > > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around > > > noon > > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you > were > > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted > accordingly > > > (I > > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote > > you a > > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > > > seconds > > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here > > was > > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't > blame > > my > > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), > > but > > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never > hurts > > > to > > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might > correct > > > any > > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of > > the > > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). > > On > > > > the > > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt > content > > > was > > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon > > that > > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you > intended > > > on > > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on > > any > > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's > that > > > > > day). > > > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing > > when > > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > > REPLACED 1 > > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you > decided > > > not > > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt > a > > 2 > > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made > another > > > PWC > > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 > PM > > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any > less > > > > than > > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no > power > > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, > reducing > > > the > > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out > > any > > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use > the > > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is > extremely > > > > mild > > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope > > all > > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post > > of > > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you > were > > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as > > it > > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear > if > > > it > > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which > > might > > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I > said > > > the > > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a > day > > > of > > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > > > > nothing > > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > > parasite > > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't > pay > > to > > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You > will > > > have > > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > > > nitrite > > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these > > > levels > > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to > > your > > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia > (right, > > > you > > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > > levels > > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > > PetSmart > > > > and > > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where > to > > > find > > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, > but > > it > > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one > nearby, > > > but > > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I > > was > > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores > carry > > > > that > > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last > > two > > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB > actually > > > came > > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there > and > > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I > thought > > > that > > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with > salt. > > > I > > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before > giving > > > the > > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > > > > stress > > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold > > > again > > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO > > LOWER > > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest > anything > > > > else > > > > > without > > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > > > > potential for > > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > > constipation... > > > > > and it's also > > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once > a > > > week > > > > > or so just > > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > > > system > > > > > disorders.. > > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green > for > > a > > > > few > > > > > days which > > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > > > > Maracyn > > > > > 2? And > > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add > salt > > > to > > > > > this last > > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each > PWC? > > > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the > > rest > > > of > > > > > the meds. > > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed > with > > > too > > > > > much meds. > > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a > day > > of > > > > > just fresh > > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to > > > rest > > > > > between > > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good > clean > > > > fresh > > > > > air for > > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any > > meds > > > > > that are > > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so > only > > > the > > > > > PWC's will > > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is > now > > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > > under .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering > > Tetra > > > > > flakes, > > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe > > the > > > > > carbs will > > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a > chance > > to > > > > > work. If it > > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a > LFS > > > that > > > > > might help > > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > > Adding > > > > > anything to > > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish > > CB > > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before > coming > > > here > > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer > when > > > the > > > > > previous > > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. > Since > > > > these > > > > > three > > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some > of > > > the > > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she > may > > > be > > > > a > > > > > bit > > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the > parasites, > > > > > remains to be > > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check > on > > > the > > > > > fish before > > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking > at > > > the > > > > > Christmas > > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to > > even > > > > > care about > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > > retention > > > > > due to > > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > > stunting > > > so > > > > > it wasn't > > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank > > (or > > > > > same size > > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > > water), > > > > she > > > > > is growing > > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't > > > there > > > > > and I don't > > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the > three > > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate > > age) > > > > > What size > > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they > > have > > > > > been in from > > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > > and .50ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. > since > > > the > > > > > last PWC. > > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > > fungus > > > at > > > > > bay until I > > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking > > > thing > > > > > occasionally > > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when > they > > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and > > CB. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and > > will > > > go > > > > > down to > > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs > > Salt > > > > > Levels" for > > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, > > since > > > > > there isn't > > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but > > > after > > > > > exertion > > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a > shaking > > > of > > > > > the head, > > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish > is > > > > > eating and > > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only > she's > > > not > > > > > eating at > > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > > nitrogen > > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep > the > > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the > ammonia/nitrite > > so > > > > > you should > > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do > PWC's > > to > > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons > per > > > > > gallon) of > > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring > > it > > > > > down to > > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, > > you'll > > > > > bring the > > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the > > > 0.285% > > > > > down to > > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > > > > number). You will > > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 > of > > > the > > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After > about 5 > > > of > > > > > those, you > > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would > no > > > > > longer be > > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any > > > kinds > > > > of > > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or > a > > > slow > > > > > gulping > > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water > with > > > > salt) > > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > > > > probably what > > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's > level > > > and > > > > > today's > > > > > > PWC) > > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion > > and > > > > > that choking > > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this > afternoon. > > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering > the > > > > salt > > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > > eliminated. > > > > > When > > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > > > especially > > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > > treatment > > > of > > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > > > > reduced. > > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's > just > > a > > > > bit > > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in > the > > > form > > > > > of > > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > > > > treating > > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > > adjusting > > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, > fish > > > will > > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections > worsen > > > and > > > > > will > > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result > of > > > your > > > > > not > > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > > noticed > > > > > your > > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test > kits > > > > (high > > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like > more > > > > > frequent > > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you > don't > > > want > > > > > to > > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > > remainder > > > of > > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and > test > > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - > > > 15ppm > > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB > > and > > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they > > have > > > > > been. > > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes > > > she's > > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking > head). > > I > > > > did > > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was > doing > > > > > this. > > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > > pellets > > > > > from > > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. > What > > > I'm > > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > > > pretty > > > > > much > > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm > > not > > > > > sure > > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but > seems > > > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still > > > spent > > > > > most > > > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times > > when > > > > > Raven > > > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back > > > corner > > > > > for a > > > > > > bit. > > > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > > > continuity- > > > > -- > > > > > -- > > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into > the > > > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it > > was > > > > ok. > > > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and > > off > > > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' > > > symptoms > > > > > up > > > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I > > could > > > > > have > > > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had > > > clamped > > > > > fins > > > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom > > I'm > > > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave > > are > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message-------------- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the > water > > > > > > column, it > > > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > > > > > bladders, as > > > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces > > though > > > > > > would > > > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although > all > > > > > > being a > > > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > > > > > bacterial. > > > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the > Protozoan > > > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > > > Goldfish, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > > > (roundworms) > > > > > > they > > > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal > tapeworms > > > when > > > > > > they > > > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > > > > infections > > > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > > > > > impossible > > > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > > > > > clearing up > > > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > > > > > medications > > > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite > > > issues. > > > > > > Since > > > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to > go > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help > with > > > the > > > > > > fungus > > > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite > medication > > > > > > (unless you > > > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to > > have > > > > > > shipped > > > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > > > > > another 4 > > > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt > (alone) > > > > > > should > > > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate > for > > > > this > > > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for > > its > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the > water > > > for > > > > > > an > > > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter > to > > > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") > for > > > > > > treatment > > > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as > Prazipro, > > > > > > in > > > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing > > agent) - > > > - > > > > > > the > > > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you > > > can't > > > > > > find > > > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you > > > can't, > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy > > > this > > > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ > $2.99 > > > > > > (treats > > > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 > > oz.@ > > > > > > $32.74 > > > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > > > > > effective as > > > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > > > > > mention for > > > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by > > Hikari > > > in > > > > > > a > > > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles > (treats > > > 3200 > > > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats > > > 12,800 > > > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If > > one > > > > > > can use > > > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the > 16 > > > > ounce > > > > > > pond > > > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is > > similarly > > > > > > priced > > > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, > is > > > all > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > > > necessary. > > > > > > One > > > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > > > medication > > > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole > (Fluke > > > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > > > Prazipro. > > > > > > Both > > > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, > though, > > > and > > > > > > for > > > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but > annoying > > > > > > little > > > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), > Prizipro > > > > will > > > > > > also > > > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get > to > > > the > > > > > > source > > > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting > Day 4 > > > of > > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting > on > > > the > > > > > > bottom > > > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was > > their > > > > > > choice, > > > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they > > > relaxed > > > > > > too > > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned > > in a > > > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, > and > > > > > > some is > > > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been > able > > > to > > > > > > see > > > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the > > > Tetra > > > > > > food > > > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the > other > > > > two - > > > > > > not > > > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven > > still > > > > > > has > > > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal > fin, > > > but > > > > > > most > > > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine > color > > > and > > > > > > shiny, > > > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking > > that's > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house > > thermostat > > > > > > is set > > > > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic > > > tank > > > > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until > I > > > > > > scraped > > > > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this > possibly > > > > > > related > > > > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > > > > > instructions > > > > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," > > > following > > > > > > a 25% > > > > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, > > or > > > > > > put the > > > > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > > > > before we > > > > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows > up > > > on > > > > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the > PetSmart > > > > > > sales. > > > > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them > > > healthy > > > > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to > > be > > > > > > stripped > > > > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of > the > > > > > > slate- > > > > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into > them > > > > from > > > > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't > > know > > > > > > what I'd > > > > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be > > seen > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > > > > discouraging. > > > > > > > If, by > > > > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang > near > > > the > > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against > > the > > > > > > glass > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also > > gulp > > > > > > at the > > > > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they > > would > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being > > created > > > > > > by the > > > > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are > being > > > > > > bouyed > > > > > > > up at > > > > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their > > swim > > > > > > > bladders > > > > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether > they > > > are > > > > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as > their > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal > > issues > > > > > > on > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up > > any, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without > > actually > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an > owner's > > > > > > written > > > > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's > going > > > on > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never > > seen > > > > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and > suspect > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > Are > > > > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently > > become > > > > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no > bargain > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > > > > > extent as > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco > > (or > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all > > tanks > > > > > > up to > > > > > > > 55 > > > > > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch > > for > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the > > > glass, > > > > > > as > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of > > reduced > > > > > > > support) > > > > > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > > > > > bond/seal > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have > > not > > > > > > yet > > > > > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs > > resealing - > > > - > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Lenny > > > > > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone > all > > > > > > joints, > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just > a > > > > > > choice) > > > > > > > in re- > > > > > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in > an > > > > > > > environment > > > > > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, > > any > > > > > > > reptile > > > > > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, > > > only > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank > > for > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with > > highly > > > > > > > elevated > > > > > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the medical > > > > > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long > > > stay > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the hospital > > > > > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water > has > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > absorbed > > > > > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and > > > cleaned > > > > > > out > > > > > > > by their > > > > > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action > going > > > on > > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, > > gulping > > > > > > at the > > > > > > > surface, > > > > > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the > > > filter > > > > > > > return. The > > > > > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they > > breath. > > > > > > All > > > > > > > the agitation > > > > > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the > surface > > so > > > > > > there > > > > > > > is more gas > > > > > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > > > > > waves. > > > > > > > The up/down > > > > > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface > > area > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > > > > > since they > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, > > etc. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > guess if it was > > > > > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the > tank > > by > > > > > > > removing all the > > > > > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as > good > > of > > > > > > a > > > > > > > price. I've > > > > > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was > Petco > > > > > > that > > > > > > > used to have > > > > > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of > times a > > > > > > year. > > > > > > > Tell them > > > > > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them > > down > > > > > > to > > > > > > > about $25.00. > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is > damaged, > > > > > > that > > > > > > > shouldn't > > > > > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of > hard > > > > > > plastic > > > > > > > of the same > > > > > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to > > > make > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > the front > > > > > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > > > > > someone > > > > > > > removed that > > > > > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the > point > > > > > > where > > > > > > > the glass had > > > > > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > > > > > over 400 > > > > > > > pounds of > > > > > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get > it, > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > know. I > > > > > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > > > > > side > > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > > > > > Fungus > > > > > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting > Day 2 > > > of > > > > > > > Jungle > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on > > the > > > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her > > > chin > > > > > > (do > > > > > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back > > corner. > > > > > > CB > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just > > hang > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there > > snarfing > > > > > > up > > > > > > > every > > > > > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think > there's a > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > > > > > wouldn't they > > > > > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming > > from > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > > > > > Craigslist > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > > > > > resealing, > > > > > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check > it > > > > > > out > > > > > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > plastic > > > > > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it > to > > > > > > accept a > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > > > > > I see > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in > > case > > > > > > this > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34777	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Merry Christmas!

I just wanted to wish everyone a safe and happy Christmas!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34778	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

How old are they again? They are still pretty small by goldfish standards but it's promising that they are growing so hopefully any stunting might be reversed. All of the PWC's that you've been doing has constantly diluted/removed the hormone levels, that cause stunting in fish, so their hormone receptors think they are in a larger volume of water. While this will work when keeping big fish in an undersized tank, it's a lot of work on the hobbyist. It's a far more enjoyable hobby when the fish are in a large enough tank that you can at least get it down to weekly maintenance without the water quality and/or hormone levels becoming an issue. I've read the studies of a hobbyist who put some juvi Oscar's (14", when full grown, large body cichlids) in 10G tanks that were plumbed to have a constant supply of fresh water flowing into one end and draining out the other end of the tank so the tanks had a 100% water change daily and the fish did not suffer any stunting. If these same fish were kept in a 10G with anything less, they would most certainly have suffered from stunting. Goldfish are affected by stunting worse than some slow-growing fish (pleco's, etc.) because goldfish do so much of their growing in their first couple of years... which is oftentimes when they are stuck in undersized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY I taped a ruler to the side of the tank and Raven obliged by hovering next to it. Raven is 1 1/2" from nose to tail base. CB is about the same length, but slimmer. Lucille is about 2" and has a more disk-shape to her, so body mass wise she's probably 3 or 4 times as big as CB. I was kind of surprised that they weren't a bit larger. They're definitely bigger than they were when they got here and Lucille is just huge compared to a month ago. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Other than their health issues, which we'll get you through, it sounds like they're doing well. You probably mentioned their size somewhere, and I may have seen it or maybe not (I don't recall that right now). About how big are they? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > OK, I just realized which post you were asking about. The reference to > their growth was just because they're bigger and need more O2. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > circulation as would an airstone. > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or its > often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your fish > growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you don't use > Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration as needed) > you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since you > lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen or > since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how you > mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with proper > maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even if > imperceptibly. > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of using > it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths when > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit of > lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Sexing Goldfish

Yes, but it's not easy. This page explains everything, including pics. http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sexing Goldfish Is there any way to tell male from female goldfish???

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34780	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all! Santa -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Merry Christmas! I just wanted to wish everyone a safe and happy Christmas!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34781	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas!

Yes! Merry Christmas to all! And a great year of fishkeeping in 2009! On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all! > > Santa > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Merry Christmas! > > I just wanted to wish everyone a safe and happy Christmas! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34782	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????

Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:49 PM

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34783	From: Lisa	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Swordtail breeding habits

I have swordtails in my tank now. 1 pineapple male 1 pineapple female 2 black females (with silver bellies) and 1 painted wag, orange and black female For a couple of days, the male has been chasing the pineapple female, but has now appeared to moved on to the wag female. Is it typical for a male to chase a female of his own colour strain? Or will he chase any female regardless of colour? Because I don't know now if he has gotten `Candy' (pineapple female) pregnant, and is moving on to `Jasper' (wag female) Candy is showing no gravid spot. So how will I know if she is pregnant and about to drop? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34784	From: Chris	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Swordtail Doing a Nose Stand

One of my female swordtails are doing a nose stand and wobbling around. I'm guessing that isn't normal. My Ammonia is zero Nitrites Zero PH 7.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34785	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????

Did you have an ammonia spike and then a nitrite spike? Yes, you should have some nitrate if your tank is cycled (unless you have fast growing plants) because the bacteria that you wanted to grow create nitrate as a waste product. Shells and coral will increase your hardness (and maybe pH) since they are made of calcium. So it depends what your hardness and pH measure now and what conditions are ideal for your fish whether you want to add them or not. I think corys don’t like the pH too high. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:49 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34786	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????

Hi Donna - yes I have been thru the ammonia and nitrite spikes. No plants. I already have a very high PH and the water here is hard so maybe not a good idea to add the shells. Thanks for the advice. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Did you have an ammonia spike and then a nitrite spike? Yes, you should have some nitrate if your tank is cycled (unless you have fast growing plants) because the bacteria that you wanted to grow create nitrate as a waste product. Shells and coral will increase your hardness (and maybe pH) since they are made of calcium. So it depends what your hardness and pH measure now and what conditions are ideal for your fish whether you want to add them or not. I think corys don't like the pH too high. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:49 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34787	From: Darlene	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Q: jungle products / Lenny

i cannot find tetra safe start anywhere around here grrrrrrrrr !! they have Jungle Start Right with Allantoin it says "removes chorine and chloramine and neutralizes harmful metals, stimulates fish slime coat naturally, adds beneficial electrolytes" and Jungle Clear Water (which i was thinking of using as a disinfectant/wash for new decorations since it is potassium permanganate and in some of the web sites it says to treat/clean new decorations to prevent contamination of tank) i can also get the mela-fix and the pima-fix by API here and i finally found the Bio-Med for my Aqua clear filters !!! still looking for a reasonable priced nitrate test kit .......... so far they are all about 16 - 20 $ and not by API there is a store i saw advertised about 45 minutes from me ........... looks like they have some real nice stuff, fish, accessories, tanks, filters...... will check them out after the holidays :) this is the link to the web site http://www.aquariusweb.qc.ca/docs_en/home.php Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34788	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????

Remind us how long you have been cycling with fish? You mention four guppies and a cory... is that what you have left now? Did you allow the ammonia/nitrites to get too high at some point that caused the fish deaths or do you know if there was some other issue that caused them? If you have live plants and have been doing a lot of PWC's and your tap water has zero nitrates, then you could possibly have zero or low enough nitrates in the tank... but it's not likely. Normally, even the best maintained FW tanks will have 5-10ppm of nitrates in the water and plants need them as a food source. It's good that your ammonia and nitrite are zero but since your nitrates are also zero, it could mean there's a problem. Double check that you are using the test kit accurately. Make sure the test kit is not expired. If you are OK with that, then lets move on to another possibility that came up with another member recently. What kind of filter system do you have and what kind of filter media do you have in the filter system? Do you have any kind of white rocks/chips in the filter system or cartridge. Give us links to your filter system and the types of cartridges or filter media that you use. I would not add more fish right now until we figure out what's going on with your nitrogen cycle. As far as the decorations, not knowing where they came from would make me very leery about using them. If you knew they came from a SW tank, then you could sterilize them and probably use them without a problem. Salt is not the problem since the little amount of salt they might leach, if they were in an SW tank, would be negligible. The bigger issue would be bacteria, pathogens, chemicals, etc... or if these rocks were used in a garden, then pesticides, etc., could be a problem. While boiling may kill off any bacteria/pathogens, it may not leach out all of the other possible nasties like chemicals that could have soaked into some of the porous stones. Of course, I could just be overly cautious and they'll all be perfectly fine. If your fish start showing any signs of distress, be prepared to do a series of 25% PWC's, five or six of them, one every hour, and run fresh carbon in your filter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34789	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????

OK Lenny - let's see if we can figure this out. The tank has been cycling 6-7 weeks. During that time, I have lost 3-4 fish. They all started shimming and had no other problems that I could see. They quit eating, got very thin and died. Never saw any indication of disease and tank has always been clear and I try not to overfeed. One time in AM and PM - only what they can eat and a few that make it to the bottom for the Cory. I feed flakes and bloodworms. I currently have 5 male guppies and the Cory. After joining the list, I did 25% water changes as the ammonia rate got higher. It did get high but I tried to get it back down. No live plants. Only artifical bought new at petstore and two decorations bought new at pet store. Washed all carefuly before I put in tank. Gravel also new, thoroughly washed. I have regular colored gravel and then added some smaller blue on top of that. I also added some of those glass type beads after washing them also. I just retested. Water in LV is extremely hard and PH is high here and the tank has always been at 8.4 to 8.6. Ammonia and nitrite still at zero. Nitrate came back just as before which is what I would call zero on the color chart. Next color up is 5.0 and it isn't there. Test kit is brand new. I don't know the brand name of the filter. Hangs off the back and uses Whisper Bio Bags, medium cartridges and I add the packet of Tetra Ultra-activated carbon. It is not very dirty right now and this is the second cartridge I have used. The decorations I picked up today are small. There are two snail shaped ones - about the size of your average snail and a couple of same sized shells. These are too small for pond/outside use. I won't add the coral or any of these items right now. The remaining guppies are healthy although the two lyre tailed ones are very aggressive toward the others. They are the newest. Could stress be a problem. These two guys chase the others around the tank until they hide. Thinking about it, I lost others before I got these two but I felt that was due to the cycling. My Cory, although alone, seems very happy and BUSY. What possibility came up with another member? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Remind us how long you have been cycling with fish? You mention four guppies and a cory... is that what you have left now? Did you allow the ammonia/nitrites to get too high at some point that caused the fish deaths or do you know if there was some other issue that caused them? If you have live plants and have been doing a lot of PWC's and your tap water has zero nitrates, then you could possibly have zero or low enough nitrates in the tank... but it's not likely. Normally, even the best maintained FW tanks will have 5-10ppm of nitrates in the water and plants need them as a food source. It's good that your ammonia and nitrite are zero but since your nitrates are also zero, it could mean there's a problem. Double check that you are using the test kit accurately. Make sure the test kit is not expired. If you are OK with that, then lets move on to another possibility that came up with another member recently. What kind of filter system do you have and what kind of filter media do you have in the filter system? Do you have any kind of white rocks/chips in the filter system or cartridge. Give us links to your filter system and the types of cartridges or filter media that you use. I would not add more fish right now until we figure out what's going on with your nitrogen cycle. As far as the decorations, not knowing where they came from would make me very leery about using them. If you knew they came from a SW tank, then you could sterilize them and probably use them without a problem. Salt is not the problem since the little amount of salt they might leach, if they were in an SW tank, would be negligible. The bigger issue would be bacteria, pathogens, chemicals, etc... or if these rocks were used in a garden, then pesticides, etc., could be a problem. While boiling may kill off any bacteria/pathogens, it may not leach out all of the other possible nasties like chemicals that could have soaked into some of the porous stones. Of course, I could just be overly cautious and they'll all be perfectly fine. If your fish start showing any signs of distress, be prepared to do a series of 25% PWC's, five or six of them, one every hour, and run fresh carbon in your filter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34790	From: Djauharuddin Yafie	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas and Happy new Year 2009 to all. Regards, From Bali Jojo ________________________________ From: Harl Myers <uneekfish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 5:15:43 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Merry Christmas! Yes! Merry Christmas to all! And a great year of fishkeeping in 2009! On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > wrote: > Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all! > > Santa > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Merry Christmas! > > I just wanted to wish everyone a safe and happy Christmas! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34791	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Their last owner bought them over a year ago and kept them in a 10G tank. That's as much as I know about their age. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY How old are they again? They are still pretty small by goldfish standards but it's promising that they are growing so hopefully any stunting might be reversed. All of the PWC's that you've been doing has constantly diluted/removed the hormone levels, that cause stunting in fish, so their hormone receptors think they are in a larger volume of water. While this will work when keeping big fish in an undersized tank, it's a lot of work on the hobbyist. It's a far more enjoyable hobby when the fish are in a large enough tank that you can at least get it down to weekly maintenance without the water quality and/or hormone levels becoming an issue. I've read the studies of a hobbyist who put some juvi Oscar's (14", when full grown, large body cichlids) in 10G tanks that were plumbed to have a constant supply of fresh water flowing into one end and draining out the other end of the tank so the tanks had a 100% water change daily and the fish did not suffer any stunting. If these same fish were kept in a 10G with anything less, they would most certainly have suffered from stunting. Goldfish are affected by stunting worse than some slow-growing fish (pleco's, etc.) because goldfish do so much of their growing in their first couple of years... which is oftentimes when they are stuck in undersized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY I taped a ruler to the side of the tank and Raven obliged by hovering next to it. Raven is 1 1/2" from nose to tail base. CB is about the same length, but slimmer. Lucille is about 2" and has a more disk-shape to her, so body mass wise she's probably 3 or 4 times as big as CB. I was kind of surprised that they weren't a bit larger. They're definitely bigger than they were when they got here and Lucille is just huge compared to a month ago. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34792	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????

From what I've read so far, nothing is jumping out at me as to the cause of your fish deaths or your cycling issues. Please go through and answer each question as best you can as it's often the little things that provide missing pieces to a puzzle when trying to diagnose fish health issues. If these fish deaths weren't in the first couple of days, then shock (pH, osmotic, temperature, etc.) shouldn't be the cause and it seems you had the fish more than a few days so it is probably something other than shock. I've seen the Whisper Bio-bags that also had zeolite in them. They had three compartments in the bio-bags... two had carbon and one had zeolite. If you accidentally bought the zeolite ones, that could cause your cycling issues as zeolite will start sucking up available ammonia, starving your nitrifying bacteria until they no longer produce nitrite or nitrate. While this sounds good, it's not since it means your tank never cycles properly and you then have to constantly be buying or recharging the zeolite. It's basically another way the filter companies try to separate us from our money... just like with carbon. Carbon is not needed, except for in situations that require it.. like removing medications/contaminations... or in cases where people are stuck with an overstocked tank, the carbon will at least help remove some of the DOC's until that person buys a proper sized tank or reduces the fish load. It's not going to solve overstocking issues.. just help a little until the primary issue is resolved. If the bloodworms are the freeze dried types, you should pre-soak them in a spoonful of tank water for a few minutes to rehydrate them. There have been issues with fish eating the dried bloodworms and then the pieces swell up inside the fish and cause digestive blockage. I hope you've read enough to know NOT to throw away your filter cartridges.. as they contain the majority of your nitrifying bacteria living on all of the surface areas of the filter media... this includes the floss poly pads, sponges, carbon, etc. Since you do not have to change out the carbon, just leave it in for now until we've got your nitrogen cycle issues under control, then we can work on removing the carbon... which could put the tank into a mini-cycle. Read my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more details. Is this the Bio-Bag that you are using? http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024 Which tap water dechlor product are you using? With your high pH water, you should probably be using Prime as a tap water dechlor since it will help with any ammonia issues. Have you ever done the tap water baseline to see if you have chloramine in your tap water? This will normally show up as 0.5ppm of ammonia during the baseline test. While this level isn't normally something to be alarmed at, with a high pH such as yours, 0.5ppm of ammonia is very toxic to fish. In a fully cycled tank, when doing a 25% PWC, it only adds 0.125ppm which would be almost immediately converted to a very small amount of nitrate but in a newly set up tank, with a pH as high as yours, even this 0.125ppm level can be stressful to fish. Yes, stress from being chased will eventually cause a fishes immune system to falter and the fish would be more susceptible to disease/pathogens but will not usually cause an instantaneous death like you are seeing... that is normally related to contamination or shock issues. See my blog's "Disease - Stress Related" page for more info on how stress/shock affects our fishes health. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? OK Lenny - let's see if we can figure this out. The tank has been cycling 6-7 weeks. During that time, I have lost 3-4 fish. They all started shimming and had no other problems that I could see. They quit eating, got very thin and died. Never saw any indication of disease and tank has always been clear and I try not to overfeed. One time in AM and PM - only what they can eat and a few that make it to the bottom for the Cory. I feed flakes and bloodworms. I currently have 5 male guppies and the Cory. After joining the list, I did 25% water changes as the ammonia rate got higher. It did get high but I tried to get it back down. No live plants. Only artifical bought new at petstore and two decorations bought new at pet store. Washed all carefuly before I put in tank. Gravel also new, thoroughly washed. I have regular colored gravel and then added some smaller blue on top of that. I also added some of those glass type beads after washing them also. I just retested. Water in LV is extremely hard and PH is high here and the tank has always been at 8.4 to 8.6. Ammonia and nitrite still at zero. Nitrate came back just as before which is what I would call zero on the color chart. Next color up is 5.0 and it isn't there. Test kit is brand new. I don't know the brand name of the filter. Hangs off the back and uses Whisper Bio Bags, medium cartridges and I add the packet of Tetra Ultra-activated carbon. It is not very dirty right now and this is the second cartridge I have used. The decorations I picked up today are small. There are two snail shaped ones - about the size of your average snail and a couple of same sized shells. These are too small for pond/outside use. I won't add the coral or any of these items right now. The remaining guppies are healthy although the two lyre tailed ones are very aggressive toward the others. They are the newest. Could stress be a problem. These two guys chase the others around the tank until they hide. Thinking about it, I lost others before I got these two but I felt that was due to the cycling. My Cory, although alone, seems very happy and BUSY. What possibility came up with another member? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Remind us how long you have been cycling with fish? You mention four guppies and a cory... is that what you have left now? Did you allow the ammonia/nitrites to get too high at some point that caused the fish deaths or do you know if there was some other issue that caused them? If you have live plants and have been doing a lot of PWC's and your tap water has zero nitrates, then you could possibly have zero or low enough nitrates in the tank... but it's not likely. Normally, even the best maintained FW tanks will have 5-10ppm of nitrates in the water and plants need them as a food source. It's good that your ammonia and nitrite are zero but since your nitrates are also zero, it could mean there's a problem. Double check that you are using the test kit accurately. Make sure the test kit is not expired. If you are OK with that, then lets move on to another possibility that came up with another member recently. What kind of filter system do you have and what kind of filter media do you have in the filter system? Do you have any kind of white rocks/chips in the filter system or cartridge. Give us links to your filter system and the types of cartridges or filter media that you use. I would not add more fish right now until we figure out what's going on with your nitrogen cycle. As far as the decorations, not knowing where they came from would make me very leery about using them. If you knew they came from a SW tank, then you could sterilize them and probably use them without a problem. Salt is not the problem since the little amount of salt they might leach, if they were in an SW tank, would be negligible. The bigger issue would be bacteria, pathogens, chemicals, etc... or if these rocks were used in a garden, then pesticides, etc., could be a problem. While boiling may kill off any bacteria/pathogens, it may not leach out all of the other possible nasties like chemicals that could have soaked into some of the porous stones. Of course, I could just be overly cautious and they'll all be perfectly fine. If your fish start showing any signs of distress, be prepared to do a series of 25% PWC's, five or six of them, one every hour, and run fresh carbon in your filter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34793	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny

You mentioned "Bio-Med" for your AquaClear... I hope you meant BioMax http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=114&PROD_ID=010134 00020101 ... I don't know what "Bio-Med" is as far as filter media for fish. BioMax is something that can be run in a filter system and left in the filter forever, just rinsing/swooshing it in some removed tank water each time you do the weekly filter maintenance, to remove any buildup on the surface of the BioMax. Then the BioMax should be the last stage of filtration before the water returns to the tank (on the top/front nearest the waterfall with AquaClear HOB's and most other HOB's). I know we talked about the Dr. Tim's One And Only, Bio-Spira and Safe Start, early on, but you should be nearing completion of cycling your tank so it's not as much of an issue any longer. The Jungle Start Right is just their version of a stress-this, slime-that type dechlor product. It's not needed. The Jungle Clear Water might be fine for using for disinfecting plants, ornaments, etc.... things that you might find in nature... but it's not needed on most aquarium safe decorations that you might buy at a store. I've never used anything like this on stuff I've found. I usually boil the driftwood (even the pieces I might buy), rocks, etc., and then do a diluted bleach dip on plants and then quarantine them starting off with tap water which also has chloramine in it which will further help kill off any bacteria. I know that PP is also used by many for disinfecting plants but I suspect it would be more affordable to buy PP rather than the Jungle Clear Water. The website for that fish store looks nice and has lots of features. I don't see any prices for any products on there so hopefully they're competitively priced as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Q: jungle products / Lenny i cannot find tetra safe start anywhere around here grrrrrrrrr !! they have Jungle Start Right with Allantoin it says "removes chorine and chloramine and neutralizes harmful metals, stimulates fish slime coat naturally, adds beneficial electrolytes" and Jungle Clear Water (which i was thinking of using as a disinfectant/wash for new decorations since it is potassium permanganate and in some of the web sites it says to treat/clean new decorations to prevent contamination of tank) i can also get the mela-fix and the pima-fix by API here and i finally found the Bio-Med for my Aqua clear filters !!! still looking for a reasonable priced nitrate test kit .......... so far they are all about 16 - 20 $ and not by API there is a store i saw advertised about 45 minutes from me ........... looks like they have some real nice stuff, fish, accessories, tanks, filters...... will check them out after the holidays :) this is the link to the web site http://www.aquariusweb.qc.ca/docs_en/home.php <http://www.aquariusweb.qc.ca/docs_en/home.php> Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34794	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Three goldfish in a 10G tank for a year is the reason they are still so small. They should be in the 4"+ body length range. Hopefully, since they are starting to grow, the stunting that took place for the first year or so might not be permanent. Just keep up with your frequent PWC's to simulate a larger water volume until you get that bigger tank. To give you an idea, three fancy goldfish should be in at least 75G to 90G of water that would get 25% PWC's each week. For a 20G tank to try and simulate this, daily 25% PWC's would be replacing 5G of water 7 days a week which is only 35G of water changes so it's getting a little over 100% change through the course of a week but even that doesn't equal the initial 75G to 90G that they should have been in. It would take twice daily 25% PWC's on a 20G tank to simulate the dilution that the proper sized tank would provide. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Their last owner bought them over a year ago and kept them in a 10G tank. That's as much as I know about their age. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY How old are they again? They are still pretty small by goldfish standards but it's promising that they are growing so hopefully any stunting might be reversed. All of the PWC's that you've been doing has constantly diluted/removed the hormone levels, that cause stunting in fish, so their hormone receptors think they are in a larger volume of water. While this will work when keeping big fish in an undersized tank, it's a lot of work on the hobbyist. It's a far more enjoyable hobby when the fish are in a large enough tank that you can at least get it down to weekly maintenance without the water quality and/or hormone levels becoming an issue. I've read the studies of a hobbyist who put some juvi Oscar's (14", when full grown, large body cichlids) in 10G tanks that were plumbed to have a constant supply of fresh water flowing into one end and draining out the other end of the tank so the tanks had a 100% water change daily and the fish did not suffer any stunting. If these same fish were kept in a 10G with anything less, they would most certainly have suffered from stunting. Goldfish are affected by stunting worse than some slow-growing fish (pleco's, etc.) because goldfish do so much of their growing in their first couple of years... which is oftentimes when they are stuck in undersized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY I taped a ruler to the side of the tank and Raven obliged by hovering next to it. Raven is 1 1/2" from nose to tail base. CB is about the same length, but slimmer. Lucille is about 2" and has a more disk-shape to her, so body mass wise she's probably 3 or 4 times as big as CB. I was kind of surprised that they weren't a bit larger. They're definitely bigger than they were when they got here and Lucille is just huge compared to a month ago. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34795	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?

This is definitley a pencil point chunk missing maybe a little bigger than that. Its turning white again and its located right where the fin and top of his head meet. I tried taking several pics but he isnt very happy in his hospital tank and wont stay still. Plus my cell doesnt take the greatest pics. I will try to get a clearer pic Thanks --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > There is always the possibility of your Gourami's becoming > aggressive, although I would not necessarily blame them without more > to support this suspicion. Blue Gourami's are known to be one of the > more aggressive species of this group though -- who ever told you > that Blue Gourami's are supposed to be non-aggressive? This is a > fallacy, even though to blame all Blue Gourami's for such behavior > would be giving the species a bad rap as a whole; they're not all of > this nature (but many can be, although it may depend upon their > environment). > > If this is a sore or sudden injury from running into an ornament, > which it could have run into at night -- since you recently added > these items, the Melafix should soon see to its healing. If this > mark is situated directly underneath the dorsal fin, it should be > noted that, while not expressed in all Angelfish strains, this is a > natural marking as found in the species' wild genes and while usually > a small metalic blue or green triangle spot, it can be other colors > on other variants. > > Without having the actual benefit of seeing the fish, it doesn't > sound as if this is what it is (unless you feel this description > fits), as it may be positioned ahead of the dorsal from what I'm > gathering, and if its white its the result of scales and epidermis > missing (no pigmentation of the area). Could well be a wound -- keep > an eye on it while its being treated, especially for any possible > secondary infection (fungus) setting in, as a white cottony growth. > Ray > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34796	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????

Actually, Lenny, one of the fish has made it thru this whole cycling thing and he is fine. Another one has also been in there for a couple of weeks and he is OK too. Yes, those are the bags that I am using. They don't have compartments. One slips onto the black plastic and then you add the pre-measured carbon. That is what I have been doing. Will soak the blood worms from now on. I just broke off a small hunk and put it in. Most are gone before they hit the bottom. Thinking about this, I "think" I have noticed that a couple of the fish seemed to go down hill after I added water or did the 25% PWC. I use my glass measuring cup (I make sure it is clean) and add 4 cups of water when I am just bringing the water level back up. I have been using Tetra Aqua Safe - usually 2-3 drops in the measuring cup. Can this stuff go bad? There is no expiration date on the bottle. My last fish started shimmying after I added water. Would 4 cups in a 10 gal tank cause problems for the fish??? Tests show no chlorine in the water. What I see is new fish are fine for a couple of weeks, then they start to shimmy and quit eating. Unfortunately, they live for many days before they actually die. I will read the articles you suggested in the morning. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? From what I've read so far, nothing is jumping out at me as to the cause of your fish deaths or your cycling issues. Please go through and answer each question as best you can as it's often the little things that provide missing pieces to a puzzle when trying to diagnose fish health issues. If these fish deaths weren't in the first couple of days, then shock (pH, osmotic, temperature, etc.) shouldn't be the cause and it seems you had the fish more than a few days so it is probably something other than shock. I've seen the Whisper Bio-bags that also had zeolite in them. They had three compartments in the bio-bags... two had carbon and one had zeolite. If you accidentally bought the zeolite ones, that could cause your cycling issues as zeolite will start sucking up available ammonia, starving your nitrifying bacteria until they no longer produce nitrite or nitrate. While this sounds good, it's not since it means your tank never cycles properly and you then have to constantly be buying or recharging the zeolite. It's basically another way the filter companies try to separate us from our money... just like with carbon. Carbon is not needed, except for in situations that require it.. like removing medications/contaminations... or in cases where people are stuck with an overstocked tank, the carbon will at least help remove some of the DOC's until that person buys a proper sized tank or reduces the fish load. It's not going to solve overstocking issues.. just help a little until the primary issue is resolved. If the bloodworms are the freeze dried types, you should pre-soak them in a spoonful of tank water for a few minutes to rehydrate them. There have been issues with fish eating the dried bloodworms and then the pieces swell up inside the fish and cause digestive blockage. I hope you've read enough to know NOT to throw away your filter cartridges.. as they contain the majority of your nitrifying bacteria living on all of the surface areas of the filter media... this includes the floss poly pads, sponges, carbon, etc. Since you do not have to change out the carbon, just leave it in for now until we've got your nitrogen cycle issues under control, then we can work on removing the carbon... which could put the tank into a mini-cycle. Read my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more details. Is this the Bio-Bag that you are using? http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024 Which tap water dechlor product are you using? With your high pH water, you should probably be using Prime as a tap water dechlor since it will help with any ammonia issues. Have you ever done the tap water baseline to see if you have chloramine in your tap water? This will normally show up as 0.5ppm of ammonia during the baseline test. While this level isn't normally something to be alarmed at, with a high pH such as yours, 0.5ppm of ammonia is very toxic to fish. In a fully cycled tank, when doing a 25% PWC, it only adds 0.125ppm which would be almost immediately converted to a very small amount of nitrate but in a newly set up tank, with a pH as high as yours, even this 0.125ppm level can be stressful to fish. Yes, stress from being chased will eventually cause a fishes immune system to falter and the fish would be more susceptible to disease/pathogens but will not usually cause an instantaneous death like you are seeing... that is normally related to contamination or shock issues. See my blog's "Disease - Stress Related" page for more info on how stress/shock affects our fishes health. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? OK Lenny - let's see if we can figure this out. The tank has been cycling 6-7 weeks. During that time, I have lost 3-4 fish. They all started shimming and had no other problems that I could see. They quit eating, got very thin and died. Never saw any indication of disease and tank has always been clear and I try not to overfeed. One time in AM and PM - only what they can eat and a few that make it to the bottom for the Cory. I feed flakes and bloodworms. I currently have 5 male guppies and the Cory. After joining the list, I did 25% water changes as the ammonia rate got higher. It did get high but I tried to get it back down. No live plants. Only artifical bought new at petstore and two decorations bought new at pet store. Washed all carefuly before I put in tank. Gravel also new, thoroughly washed. I have regular colored gravel and then added some smaller blue on top of that. I also added some of those glass type beads after washing them also. I just retested. Water in LV is extremely hard and PH is high here and the tank has always been at 8.4 to 8.6. Ammonia and nitrite still at zero. Nitrate came back just as before which is what I would call zero on the color chart. Next color up is 5.0 and it isn't there. Test kit is brand new. I don't know the brand name of the filter. Hangs off the back and uses Whisper Bio Bags, medium cartridges and I add the packet of Tetra Ultra-activated carbon. It is not very dirty right now and this is the second cartridge I have used. The decorations I picked up today are small. There are two snail shaped ones - about the size of your average snail and a couple of same sized shells. These are too small for pond/outside use. I won't add the coral or any of these items right now. The remaining guppies are healthy although the two lyre tailed ones are very aggressive toward the others. They are the newest. Could stress be a problem. These two guys chase the others around the tank until they hide. Thinking about it, I lost others before I got these two but I felt that was due to the cycling. My Cory, although alone, seems very happy and BUSY. What possibility came up with another member? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Remind us how long you have been cycling with fish? You mention four guppies and a cory... is that what you have left now? Did you allow the ammonia/nitrites to get too high at some point that caused the fish deaths or do you know if there was some other issue that caused them? If you have live plants and have been doing a lot of PWC's and your tap water has zero nitrates, then you could possibly have zero or low enough nitrates in the tank... but it's not likely. Normally, even the best maintained FW tanks will have 5-10ppm of nitrates in the water and plants need them as a food source. It's good that your ammonia and nitrite are zero but since your nitrates are also zero, it could mean there's a problem. Double check that you are using the test kit accurately. Make sure the test kit is not expired. If you are OK with that, then lets move on to another possibility that came up with another member recently. What kind of filter system do you have and what kind of filter media do you have in the filter system? Do you have any kind of white rocks/chips in the filter system or cartridge. Give us links to your filter system and the types of cartridges or filter media that you use. I would not add more fish right now until we figure out what's going on with your nitrogen cycle. As far as the decorations, not knowing where they came from would make me very leery about using them. If you knew they came from a SW tank, then you could sterilize them and probably use them without a problem. Salt is not the problem since the little amount of salt they might leach, if they were in an SW tank, would be negligible. The bigger issue would be bacteria, pathogens, chemicals, etc... or if these rocks were used in a garden, then pesticides, etc., could be a problem. While boiling may kill off any bacteria/pathogens, it may not leach out all of the other possible nasties like chemicals that could have soaked into some of the porous stones. Of course, I could just be overly cautious and they'll all be perfectly fine. If your fish start showing any signs of distress, be prepared to do a series of 25% PWC's, five or six of them, one every hour, and run fresh carbon in your filter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34797	From: Debra Penna-Fredericks	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Mixing Amphibs and Fish - Yes

I have had African Dwarf Frogs mixed with small fish in the past. ADFs (also called DAFs) are a lot of fun and generally do not eat the fish. They stay VERY small. Just make sure you get actual ADFs and not the claw foot frogs that look just like them when they are babies. You can tell the difference because the Dwarf frogs have webbing between all 4 feet. There is a Yahoo Group for ADF owners if you decide you want to try them. It is called dwarfafricanfrogs@yahoogroups.com   I encourage you not to be afraid of trying them if you want them.   I hope that helps. Debra [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34798	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm - 5G PWC @ 1PM - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have an airstone) - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the Prime and also some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep telling myself to get it and I keep forgetting. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You can grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly obvious. Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only be from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice to use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with the PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 gallon tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. Always nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. Any improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep us posted. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the Amquel+, > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection between the > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so focused > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a couple of > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She has got to > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I think she's > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about the same > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all three and > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were in a 10G > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > circulation as would an airstone. > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even > if imperceptibly. > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths when > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned > having > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower the > water > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last > resort, > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond and > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert with > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ > alone > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been reports > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the oxygen > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine > added > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than one > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to ensure > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a link > > to the > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the > > other files > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > writing info > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day doesn't > > do the > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should > > have arrived > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > > almost twice > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big > > tank as > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one less > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if > the > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the token > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 Gallons > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, like > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in your > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel Sheet > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can avoid > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change > > (and > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of your > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise > get > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I > had > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I hate > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > address > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product > being > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > ammonium > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This should > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to > avoid > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing > out > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce > your > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your > > cycle > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same time > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 tsp/G > > of > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know you've > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the > salt > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > trouble > > > with > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess if > > > they both > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on the > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the > salt > > > level and > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets > the > > > ammonia > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing > it) > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > > > PWC. The > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it > > > yesterday > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting > > on > > > the > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is > the > > > stronger > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get > worse, > > > I'll > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > > > lower. Will > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > > this?); > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > hadn't > > > been zero, > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity----------- -- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on > doing > > a > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want > to > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, > > which > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of > your > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around > > noon > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly > > (I > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote > you a > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > > seconds > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here > was > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame > my > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), > but > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts > > to > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct > > any > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of > the > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem > > here. > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). > On > > > the > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content > > was > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon > that > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended > > on > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on > any > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that > > > > day). > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing > when > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > REPLACED 1 > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided > > not > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a > 2 > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another > > PWC > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less > > > than > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing > > the > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out > any > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely > > > mild > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope > all > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post > of > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as > it > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if > > it > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which > might > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said > > the > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day > > of > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > > > nothing > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > parasite > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay > to > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will > > have > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > > nitrite > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these > > levels > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > nitrogenous > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to > your > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, > > you > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > levels > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > PetSmart > > > and > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to > > find > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but > it > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, > > but > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I > was > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry > > > that > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last > two > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually > > came > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought > > that > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. > > I > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving > > the > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > > > stress > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold > > again > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO > LOWER > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything > > > else > > > > without > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > > > potential for > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > constipation... > > > > and it's also > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a > > week > > > > or so just > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > > system > > > > disorders.. > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for > a > > > few > > > > days which > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > > > Maracyn > > > > 2? And > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt > > to > > > > this last > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the > rest > > of > > > > the meds. > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with > > too > > > > much meds. > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day > of > > > > just fresh > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to > > rest > > > > between > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean > > > fresh > > > > air for > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any > meds > > > > that are > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only > > the > > > > PWC's will > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > under .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering > Tetra > > > > flakes, > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe > the > > > > carbs will > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance > to > > > > work. If it > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS > > that > > > > might help > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > Adding > > > > anything to > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish > CB > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming > > here > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when > > the > > > > previous > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since > > > these > > > > three > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of > > the > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may > > be > > > a > > > > bit > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, > > > > remains to be > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on > > the > > > > fish before > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at > > the > > > > Christmas > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to > even > > > > care about > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > retention > > > > due to > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > stunting > > so > > > > it wasn't > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank > (or > > > > same size > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > water), > > > she > > > > is growing > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't > > there > > > > and I don't > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate > age) > > > > What size > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they > have > > > > been in from > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > and .50ppm; > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since > > the > > > > last PWC. > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > fungus > > at > > > > bay until I > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking > > thing > > > > occasionally > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and > CB. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and > will > > go > > > > down to > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs > Salt > > > > Levels" for > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, > since > > > > there isn't > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but > > after > > > > exertion > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking > > of > > > > the head, > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is > > > > eating and > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's > > not > > > > eating at > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > nitrogen > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite > so > > > > you should > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's > to > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > > > > gallon) of > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring > it > > > > down to > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, > you'll > > > > bring the > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the > > 0.285% > > > > down to > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > > > number). You will > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of > > the > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 > > of > > > > those, you > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no > > > > longer be > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any > > kinds > > > of > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a > > slow > > > > gulping > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with > > > salt) > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > > > probably what > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level > > and > > > > today's > > > > > PWC) > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion > and > > > > that choking > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the > > > salt > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > eliminated. > > > > When > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > > especially > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > treatment > > of > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > > > reduced. > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just > a > > > bit > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the > > form > > > > of > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > > > treating > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > adjusting > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish > > will > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen > > and > > > > will > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of > > your > > > > not > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > noticed > > > > your > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits > > > (high > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more > > > > frequent > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't > > want > > > > to > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > remainder > > of > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - > > 15ppm > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB > and > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they > have > > > > been. > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes > > she's > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). > I > > > did > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing > > > > this. > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > pellets > > > > from > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What > > I'm > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > > pretty > > > > much > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm > not > > > > sure > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > > > > Jungles > > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still > > spent > > > > most > > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times > when > > > > Raven > > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back > > corner > > > > for a > > > > > bit. > > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > > continuity- > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it > was > > > ok. > > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and > off > > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' > > symptoms > > > > up > > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I > could > > > > have > > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had > > clamped > > > > fins > > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom > I'm > > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave > are > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message-------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > > > > > column, it > > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > > > > bladders, as > > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces > though > > > > > would > > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > > > > > being a > > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > > > > bacterial. > > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > > Goldfish, > > > > > and > > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > > (roundworms) > > > > > they > > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms > > when > > > > > they > > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > > > infections > > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > > > > impossible > > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > > > > clearing up > > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > > > > medications > > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite > > issues. > > > > > Since > > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with > > the > > > > > fungus > > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > > > > > (unless you > > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to > have > > > > > shipped > > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > > > > another 4 > > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > > > > > should > > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for > > > this > > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for > its > > > > > normal > > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water > > for > > > > > an > > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > > > > > treatment > > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > > > > > in > > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing > agent) - > > - > > > > > the > > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you > > can't > > > > > find > > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you > > can't, > > > > > contact > > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy > > this > > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > > > > > (treats > > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 > oz.@ > > > > > $32.74 > > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > > > > effective as > > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > > > > mention for > > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by > Hikari > > in > > > > > a > > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats > > 3200 > > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats > > 12,800 > > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If > one > > > > > can use > > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 > > > ounce > > > > > pond > > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is > similarly > > > > > priced > > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is > > all > > > > > that's > > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > > necessary. > > > > > One > > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > > medication > > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > > Prazipro. > > > > > Both > > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, > > and > > > > > for > > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > > > > > little > > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro > > > will > > > > > also > > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to > > the > > > > > source > > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 > > of > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on > > the > > > > > bottom > > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was > their > > > > > choice, > > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they > > relaxed > > > > > too > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned > in a > > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > > > > > some is > > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able > > to > > > > > see > > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the > > Tetra > > > > > food > > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other > > > two - > > > > > not > > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven > still > > > > > has > > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, > > but > > > > > most > > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color > > and > > > > > shiny, > > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking > that's > > > > > probably > > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house > thermostat > > > > > is set > > > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic > > tank > > > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > > > > > scraped > > > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > > > concerned > > > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > > > > > related > > > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > > > > instructions > > > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," > > following > > > > > a 25% > > > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, > or > > > > > put the > > > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > > > before we > > > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up > > on > > > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > > > > > sales. > > > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them > > healthy > > > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to > be > > > > > stripped > > > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > > > > > slate- > > > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them > > > from > > > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't > know > > > > > what I'd > > > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be > seen > > > > > as > > > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > > > discouraging. > > > > > > If, by > > > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near > > the > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against > the > > > > > glass > > > > > > in > > > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also > gulp > > > > > at the > > > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they > would > > > > > not > > > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being > created > > > > > by the > > > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > > > > > bouyed > > > > > > up at > > > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their > swim > > > > > > bladders > > > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they > > are > > > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > > > > > choice > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > > > > possible > > > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal > issues > > > > > on > > > > > > their > > > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up > any, > > > > > and > > > > > > is > > > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without > actually > > > > > being > > > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > > > > > written > > > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going > > on > > > > > and > > > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never > seen > > > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > > > > > something > > > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > Are > > > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently > become > > > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain > if > > > > > you > > > > > > have > > > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > > > > extent as > > > > > > to > > > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco > (or > > > > > may > > > > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > > > > > the > > > > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all > tanks > > > > > up to > > > > > > 55 > > > > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch > for > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the > > glass, > > > > > as > > > > > > again > > > > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of > reduced > > > > > > support) > > > > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > > > > bond/seal > > > > > > between > > > > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have > not > > > > > yet > > > > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs > resealing - > > - > > > > > and > > > > > > Lenny > > > > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > > > > > joints, > > > > > > you > > > > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > > > > > choice) > > > > > > in re- > > > > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > > > > > environment > > > > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, > any > > > > > > reptile > > > > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, > > only > > > > > to be > > > > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank > for > > > > > fish > > > > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with > highly > > > > > > elevated > > > > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now > from > > > > > all > > > > > > the medical > > > > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long > > stay > > > > > in > > > > > > the hospital > > > > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > > > > > to be > > > > > > absorbed > > > > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and > > cleaned > > > > > out > > > > > > by their > > > > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going > > on > > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, > gulping > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface, > > > > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the > > filter > > > > > > return. The > > > > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they > breath. > > > > > All > > > > > > the agitation > > > > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface > so > > > > > there > > > > > > is more gas > > > > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > > > > waves. > > > > > > The up/down > > > > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface > area > > > > > of a > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > > > > since they > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, > etc. > > > > > I > > > > > > guess if it was > > > > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank > by > > > > > > removing all the > > > > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good > of > > > > > a > > > > > > price. I've > > > > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > > > > > that > > > > > > used to have > > > > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > > > > > year. > > > > > > Tell them > > > > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them > down > > > > > to > > > > > > about $25.00. > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > > > > > that > > > > > > shouldn't > > > > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > > > > > plastic > > > > > > of the same > > > > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to > > make > > > > > sure > > > > > > the front > > > > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > > > > someone > > > > > > removed that > > > > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > > > > > where > > > > > > the glass had > > > > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > > > > over 400 > > > > > > pounds of > > > > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > > > > > let me > > > > > > know. I > > > > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > > > > side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > > > > Fungus > > > > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 > > of > > > > > > Jungle > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on > the > > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her > > chin > > > > > (do > > > > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back > corner. > > > > > CB > > > > > > also > > > > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just > hang > > > > > there. > > > > > > And > > > > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there > snarfing > > > > > up > > > > > > every > > > > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > > > > > problem > > > > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > > > > wouldn't they > > > > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming > from > > > > > the > > > > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > > > > Craigslist > > > > > > for > > > > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > > > > resealing, > > > > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > > > > > out > > > > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > > > > > the > > > > > > plastic > > > > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > > > > > accept a > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > > > > I see > > > > > > that > > > > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in > case > > > > > this > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34799	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/23/2008
Subject: Merry Christmas All!

Merry Christmas and thank you for all the help you've given me here, especially Lenny and Ray! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34800	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????

I haven't had to dose drops of dechlor in a LONG time but if I remember correctly, most of the dechlor bottles sold for small tank owners have the one drop per gallon as a dosage... right? It shouldn't be harming the fish, if overdosing of dechlor is done on occasion, but you don't need 2-3 drops for a quart of water (4 cups) each time you top-off. When topping off just a little bit like that, I never did worry about adding a dechlor since previous overdoses of dechlor stays in the water column as free molecules until a chlorine/chloramine molecule is found to attach to and break down. It doesn't evaporate since it is a "salt" compound (sodium thiosulphate is the primary ingredient in most dechlor products). If you've been doing this extra 2-3 drop dosage many times, I'm wondering if you might not have a heavy overdose of dechlor in your tank. I wouldn't know how to test for this. As a preventive measure, in case of severe dechlor overdosing, do a 25% PWC each day for the next week and ONLY add the proper dosage of dechlor for the amount of water that you are replacing. For example, if you are replacing 3G of water, then dose the dechlor for only 3G, not the full tank size. Vacuum your gravel with each PWC.. or at least the first couple to remove any excessive detritus that might have built up deep in the gravel. After that, your tank should be back to normal dechlor levels and optimal water parameters, so we can at least rule out that for future possibilities. Keep up with weekly PWC's but leave the filter alone while we are working on your cycling issues. Once we have your tank fully cycled, then you can start doing weekly filter maintenance. Since you mention that you add fresh carbon on a regular basis, DO NOT do filter maintenance right now and leave the filter alone for the next few weeks while we figure your cycling issues out. And the carbon might help with removing some of the excess dechlor additives that aren't salt compounds. The Tetra Aqua Safe should not go bad as long as it's not ten years old or something like that. Always shake it first to make sure there hasn't been any settling. Since you mentioned that "tests show no chlorine in the water", were you talking about your tap water or the tank? I think you mentioned you "live in LV" (and I know you didn't mean inside me... my initials are LV.. lol) so I'm sure Las Vegas probably uses chloramine to disinfect the tap water. You could check online http://www.epa.gov/safewater/dwinfo/index.html (I did your homework... lol... ) with a couple of clicks leads to this page http://yosemite.epa.gov/ogwdw/ccr.nsf/Nevada?OpenView for the four water districts in Clark County so read your applicable water report or call them to verify whether they use chlorine, chloramine or some other disinfectant (there are a few others commonly used). While on the phone or checking on your tap water, also find out if they use the typical dose of 3-5ppm or maybe they use more or use something other than chloramine or chlorine. Here's a copy of my last email conversation with my water utility company, back in 2006, about their treatment process. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Finished Cycling???? Actually, Lenny, one of the fish has made it thru this whole cycling thing and he is fine. Another one has also been in there for a couple of weeks and he is OK too. Yes, those are the bags that I am using. They don't have compartments. One slips onto the black plastic and then you add the pre-measured carbon. That is what I have been doing. Will soak the blood worms from now on. I just broke off a small hunk and put it in. Most are gone before they hit the bottom. Thinking about this, I "think" I have noticed that a couple of the fish seemed to go down hill after I added water or did the 25% PWC. I use my glass measuring cup (I make sure it is clean) and add 4 cups of water when I am just bringing the water level back up. I have been using Tetra Aqua Safe - usually 2-3 drops in the measuring cup. Can this stuff go bad? There is no expiration date on the bottle. My last fish started shimmying after I added water. Would 4 cups in a 10 gal tank cause problems for the fish??? Tests show no chlorine in the water. What I see is new fish are fine for a couple of weeks, then they start to shimmy and quit eating. Unfortunately, they live for many days before they actually die. I will read the articles you suggested in the morning. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? From what I've read so far, nothing is jumping out at me as to the cause of your fish deaths or your cycling issues. Please go through and answer each question as best you can as it's often the little things that provide missing pieces to a puzzle when trying to diagnose fish health issues. If these fish deaths weren't in the first couple of days, then shock (pH, osmotic, temperature, etc.) shouldn't be the cause and it seems you had the fish more than a few days so it is probably something other than shock. I've seen the Whisper Bio-bags that also had zeolite in them. They had three compartments in the bio-bags... two had carbon and one had zeolite. If you accidentally bought the zeolite ones, that could cause your cycling issues as zeolite will start sucking up available ammonia, starving your nitrifying bacteria until they no longer produce nitrite or nitrate. While this sounds good, it's not since it means your tank never cycles properly and you then have to constantly be buying or recharging the zeolite. It's basically another way the filter companies try to separate us from our money... just like with carbon. Carbon is not needed, except for in situations that require it.. like removing medications/contaminations... or in cases where people are stuck with an overstocked tank, the carbon will at least help remove some of the DOC's until that person buys a proper sized tank or reduces the fish load. It's not going to solve overstocking issues.. just help a little until the primary issue is resolved. If the bloodworms are the freeze dried types, you should pre-soak them in a spoonful of tank water for a few minutes to rehydrate them. There have been issues with fish eating the dried bloodworms and then the pieces swell up inside the fish and cause digestive blockage. I hope you've read enough to know NOT to throw away your filter cartridges.. as they contain the majority of your nitrifying bacteria living on all of the surface areas of the filter media... this includes the floss poly pads, sponges, carbon, etc. Since you do not have to change out the carbon, just leave it in for now until we've got your nitrogen cycle issues under control, then we can work on removing the carbon... which could put the tank into a mini-cycle. Read my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more details. Is this the Bio-Bag that you are using? http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024> Which tap water dechlor product are you using? With your high pH water, you should probably be using Prime as a tap water dechlor since it will help with any ammonia issues. Have you ever done the tap water baseline to see if you have chloramine in your tap water? This will normally show up as 0.5ppm of ammonia during the baseline test. While this level isn't normally something to be alarmed at, with a high pH such as yours, 0.5ppm of ammonia is very toxic to fish. In a fully cycled tank, when doing a 25% PWC, it only adds 0.125ppm which would be almost immediately converted to a very small amount of nitrate but in a newly set up tank, with a pH as high as yours, even this 0.125ppm level can be stressful to fish. Yes, stress from being chased will eventually cause a fishes immune system to falter and the fish would be more susceptible to disease/pathogens but will not usually cause an instantaneous death like you are seeing... that is normally related to contamination or shock issues. See my blog's "Disease - Stress Related" page for more info on how stress/shock affects our fishes health. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? OK Lenny - let's see if we can figure this out. The tank has been cycling 6-7 weeks. During that time, I have lost 3-4 fish. They all started shimming and had no other problems that I could see. They quit eating, got very thin and died. Never saw any indication of disease and tank has always been clear and I try not to overfeed. One time in AM and PM - only what they can eat and a few that make it to the bottom for the Cory. I feed flakes and bloodworms. I currently have 5 male guppies and the Cory. After joining the list, I did 25% water changes as the ammonia rate got higher. It did get high but I tried to get it back down. No live plants. Only artifical bought new at petstore and two decorations bought new at pet store. Washed all carefuly before I put in tank. Gravel also new, thoroughly washed. I have regular colored gravel and then added some smaller blue on top of that. I also added some of those glass type beads after washing them also. I just retested. Water in LV is extremely hard and PH is high here and the tank has always been at 8.4 to 8.6. Ammonia and nitrite still at zero. Nitrate came back just as before which is what I would call zero on the color chart. Next color up is 5.0 and it isn't there. Test kit is brand new. I don't know the brand name of the filter. Hangs off the back and uses Whisper Bio Bags, medium cartridges and I add the packet of Tetra Ultra-activated carbon. It is not very dirty right now and this is the second cartridge I have used. The decorations I picked up today are small. There are two snail shaped ones - about the size of your average snail and a couple of same sized shells. These are too small for pond/outside use. I won't add the coral or any of these items right now. The remaining guppies are healthy although the two lyre tailed ones are very aggressive toward the others. They are the newest. Could stress be a problem. These two guys chase the others around the tank until they hide. Thinking about it, I lost others before I got these two but I felt that was due to the cycling. My Cory, although alone, seems very happy and BUSY. What possibility came up with another member? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Remind us how long you have been cycling with fish? You mention four guppies and a cory... is that what you have left now? Did you allow the ammonia/nitrites to get too high at some point that caused the fish deaths or do you know if there was some other issue that caused them? If you have live plants and have been doing a lot of PWC's and your tap water has zero nitrates, then you could possibly have zero or low enough nitrates in the tank... but it's not likely. Normally, even the best maintained FW tanks will have 5-10ppm of nitrates in the water and plants need them as a food source. It's good that your ammonia and nitrite are zero but since your nitrates are also zero, it could mean there's a problem. Double check that you are using the test kit accurately. Make sure the test kit is not expired. If you are OK with that, then lets move on to another possibility that came up with another member recently. What kind of filter system do you have and what kind of filter media do you have in the filter system? Do you have any kind of white rocks/chips in the filter system or cartridge. Give us links to your filter system and the types of cartridges or filter media that you use. I would not add more fish right now until we figure out what's going on with your nitrogen cycle. As far as the decorations, not knowing where they came from would make me very leery about using them. If you knew they came from a SW tank, then you could sterilize them and probably use them without a problem. Salt is not the problem since the little amount of salt they might leach, if they were in an SW tank, would be negligible. The bigger issue would be bacteria, pathogens, chemicals, etc... or if these rocks were used in a garden, then pesticides, etc., could be a problem. While boiling may kill off any bacteria/pathogens, it may not leach out all of the other possible nasties like chemicals that could have soaked into some of the porous stones. Of course, I could just be overly cautious and they'll all be perfectly fine. If your fish start showing any signs of distress, be prepared to do a series of 25% PWC's, five or six of them, one every hour, and run fresh carbon in your filter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34801	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Finished Cycling????

I was just typing out a reply to DebR and realized I was mistaken about the dechlor dosage for small volumes of water. When I said 1 drop per gallon, I was thinking of the dechlor products that I use that only need 1ml per 10G so around 1-2 drops per gallon would suffice... since I think the average drop size adds up to around 20 drops per milliliter (ml). With other dechlor products that might need 5ml or 10ml per 10G, then they may need several to many drops per gallon. Check the instructions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Finished Cycling???? Actually, Lenny, one of the fish has made it thru this whole cycling thing and he is fine. Another one has also been in there for a couple of weeks and he is OK too. Yes, those are the bags that I am using. They don't have compartments. One slips onto the black plastic and then you add the pre-measured carbon. That is what I have been doing. Will soak the blood worms from now on. I just broke off a small hunk and put it in. Most are gone before they hit the bottom. Thinking about this, I "think" I have noticed that a couple of the fish seemed to go down hill after I added water or did the 25% PWC. I use my glass measuring cup (I make sure it is clean) and add 4 cups of water when I am just bringing the water level back up. I have been using Tetra Aqua Safe - usually 2-3 drops in the measuring cup. Can this stuff go bad? There is no expiration date on the bottle. My last fish started shimmying after I added water. Would 4 cups in a 10 gal tank cause problems for the fish??? Tests show no chlorine in the water. What I see is new fish are fine for a couple of weeks, then they start to shimmy and quit eating. Unfortunately, they live for many days before they actually die. I will read the articles you suggested in the morning. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? From what I've read so far, nothing is jumping out at me as to the cause of your fish deaths or your cycling issues. Please go through and answer each question as best you can as it's often the little things that provide missing pieces to a puzzle when trying to diagnose fish health issues. If these fish deaths weren't in the first couple of days, then shock (pH, osmotic, temperature, etc.) shouldn't be the cause and it seems you had the fish more than a few days so it is probably something other than shock. I've seen the Whisper Bio-bags that also had zeolite in them. They had three compartments in the bio-bags... two had carbon and one had zeolite. If you accidentally bought the zeolite ones, that could cause your cycling issues as zeolite will start sucking up available ammonia, starving your nitrifying bacteria until they no longer produce nitrite or nitrate. While this sounds good, it's not since it means your tank never cycles properly and you then have to constantly be buying or recharging the zeolite. It's basically another way the filter companies try to separate us from our money... just like with carbon. Carbon is not needed, except for in situations that require it.. like removing medications/contaminations... or in cases where people are stuck with an overstocked tank, the carbon will at least help remove some of the DOC's until that person buys a proper sized tank or reduces the fish load. It's not going to solve overstocking issues.. just help a little until the primary issue is resolved. If the bloodworms are the freeze dried types, you should pre-soak them in a spoonful of tank water for a few minutes to rehydrate them. There have been issues with fish eating the dried bloodworms and then the pieces swell up inside the fish and cause digestive blockage. I hope you've read enough to know NOT to throw away your filter cartridges.. as they contain the majority of your nitrifying bacteria living on all of the surface areas of the filter media... this includes the floss poly pads, sponges, carbon, etc. Since you do not have to change out the carbon, just leave it in for now until we've got your nitrogen cycle issues under control, then we can work on removing the carbon... which could put the tank into a mini-cycle. Read my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more details. Is this the Bio-Bag that you are using? http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024> Which tap water dechlor product are you using? With your high pH water, you should probably be using Prime as a tap water dechlor since it will help with any ammonia issues. Have you ever done the tap water baseline to see if you have chloramine in your tap water? This will normally show up as 0.5ppm of ammonia during the baseline test. While this level isn't normally something to be alarmed at, with a high pH such as yours, 0.5ppm of ammonia is very toxic to fish. In a fully cycled tank, when doing a 25% PWC, it only adds 0.125ppm which would be almost immediately converted to a very small amount of nitrate but in a newly set up tank, with a pH as high as yours, even this 0.125ppm level can be stressful to fish. Yes, stress from being chased will eventually cause a fishes immune system to falter and the fish would be more susceptible to disease/pathogens but will not usually cause an instantaneous death like you are seeing... that is normally related to contamination or shock issues. See my blog's "Disease - Stress Related" page for more info on how stress/shock affects our fishes health. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? OK Lenny - let's see if we can figure this out. The tank has been cycling 6-7 weeks. During that time, I have lost 3-4 fish. They all started shimming and had no other problems that I could see. They quit eating, got very thin and died. Never saw any indication of disease and tank has always been clear and I try not to overfeed. One time in AM and PM - only what they can eat and a few that make it to the bottom for the Cory. I feed flakes and bloodworms. I currently have 5 male guppies and the Cory. After joining the list, I did 25% water changes as the ammonia rate got higher. It did get high but I tried to get it back down. No live plants. Only artifical bought new at petstore and two decorations bought new at pet store. Washed all carefuly before I put in tank. Gravel also new, thoroughly washed. I have regular colored gravel and then added some smaller blue on top of that. I also added some of those glass type beads after washing them also. I just retested. Water in LV is extremely hard and PH is high here and the tank has always been at 8.4 to 8.6. Ammonia and nitrite still at zero. Nitrate came back just as before which is what I would call zero on the color chart. Next color up is 5.0 and it isn't there. Test kit is brand new. I don't know the brand name of the filter. Hangs off the back and uses Whisper Bio Bags, medium cartridges and I add the packet of Tetra Ultra-activated carbon. It is not very dirty right now and this is the second cartridge I have used. The decorations I picked up today are small. There are two snail shaped ones - about the size of your average snail and a couple of same sized shells. These are too small for pond/outside use. I won't add the coral or any of these items right now. The remaining guppies are healthy although the two lyre tailed ones are very aggressive toward the others. They are the newest. Could stress be a problem. These two guys chase the others around the tank until they hide. Thinking about it, I lost others before I got these two but I felt that was due to the cycling. My Cory, although alone, seems very happy and BUSY. What possibility came up with another member? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Remind us how long you have been cycling with fish? You mention four guppies and a cory... is that what you have left now? Did you allow the ammonia/nitrites to get too high at some point that caused the fish deaths or do you know if there was some other issue that caused them? If you have live plants and have been doing a lot of PWC's and your tap water has zero nitrates, then you could possibly have zero or low enough nitrates in the tank... but it's not likely. Normally, even the best maintained FW tanks will have 5-10ppm of nitrates in the water and plants need them as a food source. It's good that your ammonia and nitrite are zero but since your nitrates are also zero, it could mean there's a problem. Double check that you are using the test kit accurately. Make sure the test kit is not expired. If you are OK with that, then lets move on to another possibility that came up with another member recently. What kind of filter system do you have and what kind of filter media do you have in the filter system? Do you have any kind of white rocks/chips in the filter system or cartridge. Give us links to your filter system and the types of cartridges or filter media that you use. I would not add more fish right now until we figure out what's going on with your nitrogen cycle. As far as the decorations, not knowing where they came from would make me very leery about using them. If you knew they came from a SW tank, then you could sterilize them and probably use them without a problem. Salt is not the problem since the little amount of salt they might leach, if they were in an SW tank, would be negligible. The bigger issue would be bacteria, pathogens, chemicals, etc... or if these rocks were used in a garden, then pesticides, etc., could be a problem. While boiling may kill off any bacteria/pathogens, it may not leach out all of the other possible nasties like chemicals that could have soaked into some of the porous stones. Of course, I could just be overly cautious and they'll all be perfectly fine. If your fish start showing any signs of distress, be prepared to do a series of 25% PWC's, five or six of them, one every hour, and run fresh carbon in your filter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34802	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY

You won't need a separate dechlor. Prime is a dechlor and also helps with any ammonia issues. It's a good product but isn't needed by most people nor once a tank is fully cycled or not overstocked. After you get through the cycling issues and get a larger tank, you can switch back to a more cost effective dechlor product. The two that I've use that are very cost effective in the 8 oz. to 16 oz. size are either the Top Fin Tap Water Dechlorinator (check the names as there are similarly named products from Top Fin) or the API Tap Water Conditioner. These only require 1ml per 10G so they treat up to 10X's more water for a similar or lower price than some other brands. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm - 5G PWC @ 1PM - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have an airstone) - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the Prime and also some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep telling myself to get it and I keep forgetting. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You can grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly obvious. Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only be from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice to use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with the PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 gallon tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. Always nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. Any improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep us posted. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the Amquel+, > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection between the > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so focused > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a couple of > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She has got to > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I think she's > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about the same > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all three and > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were in a 10G > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > circulation as would an airstone. > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even > if imperceptibly. > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths when > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned > having > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower the > water > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last > resort, > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond and > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert with > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ > alone > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been reports > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the oxygen > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine > added > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than one > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to ensure > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a link > > to the > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the > > other files > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > writing info > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day doesn't > > do the > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should > > have arrived > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > > almost twice > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big > > tank as > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one less > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if > the > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the token > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 Gallons > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, like > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in your > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel Sheet > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can avoid > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change > > (and > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of your > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise > get > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I > had > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I hate > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > address > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product > being > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > ammonium > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This should > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to > avoid > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing > out > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce > your > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your > > cycle > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same time > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 tsp/G > > of > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know you've > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the > salt > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > trouble > > > with > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess if > > > they both > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on the > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the > salt > > > level and > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets > the > > > ammonia > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing > it) > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > > > PWC. The > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower it > > > yesterday > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer sitting > > on > > > the > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is > the > > > stronger > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get > worse, > > > I'll > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > > > lower. Will > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > > this?); > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > hadn't > > > been zero, > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity----------- -- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on > doing > > a > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did want > to > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, > > which > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of > your > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around > > noon > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you were > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted accordingly > > (I > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote > you a > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > > seconds > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here > was > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't blame > my > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), > but > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never hurts > > to > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might correct > > any > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of > the > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem > > here. > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). > On > > > the > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt content > > was > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon > that > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you intended > > on > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on > any > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's that > > > > day). > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing > when > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > REPLACED 1 > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you decided > > not > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt a > 2 > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made another > > PWC > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 PM > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any less > > > than > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no power > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, reducing > > the > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out > any > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use the > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is extremely > > > mild > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope > all > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post > of > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you were > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as > it > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear if > > it > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which > might > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I said > > the > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a day > > of > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > > > nothing > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > parasite > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't pay > to > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You will > > have > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > > nitrite > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these > > levels > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > nitrogenous > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to > your > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia (right, > > you > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > levels > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > PetSmart > > > and > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where to > > find > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, but > it > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one nearby, > > but > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I > was > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores carry > > > that > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last > two > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB actually > > came > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there and > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I thought > > that > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with salt. > > I > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before giving > > the > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > > > stress > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold > > again > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO > LOWER > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest anything > > > else > > > > without > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > > > potential for > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > constipation... > > > > and it's also > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once a > > week > > > > or so just > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > > system > > > > disorders.. > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green for > a > > > few > > > > days which > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > > > Maracyn > > > > 2? And > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add salt > > to > > > > this last > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each PWC? > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the > rest > > of > > > > the meds. > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed with > > too > > > > much meds. > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a day > of > > > > just fresh > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to > > rest > > > > between > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good clean > > > fresh > > > > air for > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any > meds > > > > that are > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so only > > the > > > > PWC's will > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is now > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > under .25ppm; > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering > Tetra > > > > flakes, > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe > the > > > > carbs will > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a chance > to > > > > work. If it > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a LFS > > that > > > > might help > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > Adding > > > > anything to > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish > CB > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before coming > > here > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer when > > the > > > > previous > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. Since > > > these > > > > three > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some of > > the > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she may > > be > > > a > > > > bit > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the parasites, > > > > remains to be > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check on > > the > > > > fish before > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking at > > the > > > > Christmas > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to > even > > > > care about > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > retention > > > > due to > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > stunting > > so > > > > it wasn't > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank > (or > > > > same size > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > water), > > > she > > > > is growing > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't > > there > > > > and I don't > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the three > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate > age) > > > > What size > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they > have > > > > been in from > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > and .50ppm; > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. since > > the > > > > last PWC. > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > fungus > > at > > > > bay until I > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking > > thing > > > > occasionally > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when they > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and > CB. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and > will > > go > > > > down to > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs > Salt > > > > Levels" for > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, > since > > > > there isn't > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but > > after > > > > exertion > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a shaking > > of > > > > the head, > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish is > > > > eating and > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only she's > > not > > > > eating at > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > nitrogen > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep the > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > nitrifying > > > > bacteria > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the ammonia/nitrite > so > > > > you should > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do PWC's > to > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons per > > > > gallon) of > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring > it > > > > down to > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, > you'll > > > > bring the > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the > > 0.285% > > > > down to > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > > > number). You will > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 of > > the > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After about 5 > > of > > > > those, you > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would no > > > > longer be > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any > > kinds > > > of > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or a > > slow > > > > gulping > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water with > > > salt) > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > > > probably what > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's level > > and > > > > today's > > > > > PWC) > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion > and > > > > that choking > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this afternoon. > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering the > > > salt > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > eliminated. > > > > When > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > > especially > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > treatment > > of > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > > > reduced. > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's just > a > > > bit > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in the > > form > > > > of > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > > > treating > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > adjusting > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, fish > > will > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections worsen > > and > > > > will > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result of > > your > > > > not > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > noticed > > > > your > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test kits > > > (high > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like more > > > > frequent > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you don't > > want > > > > to > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > remainder > > of > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and test > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - > > 15ppm > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB > and > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they > have > > > > been. > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes > > she's > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking head). > I > > > did > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was doing > > > > this. > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > pellets > > > > from > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. What > > I'm > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > > pretty > > > > much > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm > not > > > > sure > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > > > > Jungles > > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but seems > > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still > > spent > > > > most > > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times > when > > > > Raven > > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back > > corner > > > > for a > > > > > bit. > > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > > continuity- > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into the > > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it > was > > > ok. > > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and > off > > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' > > symptoms > > > > up > > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I > could > > > > have > > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had > > clamped > > > > fins > > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom > I'm > > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave > are > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message-------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the water > > > > > column, it > > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > > > > bladders, as > > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces > though > > > > > would > > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although all > > > > > being a > > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > > > > bacterial. > > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the Protozoan > > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > > Goldfish, > > > > > and > > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > > (roundworms) > > > > > they > > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal tapeworms > > when > > > > > they > > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > > > infections > > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > > > > impossible > > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > > > > clearing up > > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > > > > medications > > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite > > issues. > > > > > Since > > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to go > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help with > > the > > > > > fungus > > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite medication > > > > > (unless you > > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to > have > > > > > shipped > > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > > > > another 4 > > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt (alone) > > > > > should > > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate for > > > this > > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for > its > > > > > normal > > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the water > > for > > > > > an > > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter to > > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") for > > > > > treatment > > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as Prazipro, > > > > > in > > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing > agent) - > > - > > > > > the > > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you > > can't > > > > > find > > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you > > can't, > > > > > contact > > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy > > this > > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ $2.99 > > > > > (treats > > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 > oz.@ > > > > > $32.74 > > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > > > > effective as > > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > > > > mention for > > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by > Hikari > > in > > > > > a > > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles (treats > > 3200 > > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats > > 12,800 > > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If > one > > > > > can use > > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the 16 > > > ounce > > > > > pond > > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is > similarly > > > > > priced > > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, is > > all > > > > > that's > > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > > necessary. > > > > > One > > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > > medication > > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole (Fluke > > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > > Prazipro. > > > > > Both > > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, though, > > and > > > > > for > > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but annoying > > > > > little > > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), Prizipro > > > will > > > > > also > > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get to > > the > > > > > source > > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting Day 4 > > of > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting on > > the > > > > > bottom > > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was > their > > > > > choice, > > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they > > relaxed > > > > > too > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned > in a > > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, and > > > > > some is > > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been able > > to > > > > > see > > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the > > Tetra > > > > > food > > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the other > > > two - > > > > > not > > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven > still > > > > > has > > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal fin, > > but > > > > > most > > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine color > > and > > > > > shiny, > > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking > that's > > > > > probably > > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house > thermostat > > > > > is set > > > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic > > tank > > > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until I > > > > > scraped > > > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > > > concerned > > > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this possibly > > > > > related > > > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > > > > instructions > > > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," > > following > > > > > a 25% > > > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, > or > > > > > put the > > > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > > > before we > > > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows up > > on > > > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the PetSmart > > > > > sales. > > > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them > > healthy > > > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to > be > > > > > stripped > > > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of the > > > > > slate- > > > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into them > > > from > > > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't > know > > > > > what I'd > > > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be > seen > > > > > as > > > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > > > discouraging. > > > > > > If, by > > > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang near > > the > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against > the > > > > > glass > > > > > > in > > > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also > gulp > > > > > at the > > > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they > would > > > > > not > > > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being > created > > > > > by the > > > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are being > > > > > bouyed > > > > > > up at > > > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their > swim > > > > > > bladders > > > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether they > > are > > > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as their > > > > > choice > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > > > > possible > > > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal > issues > > > > > on > > > > > > their > > > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up > any, > > > > > and > > > > > > is > > > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without > actually > > > > > being > > > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an owner's > > > > > written > > > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's going > > on > > > > > and > > > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never > seen > > > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and suspect > > > > > > something > > > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > Are > > > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently > become > > > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no bargain > if > > > > > you > > > > > > have > > > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > > > > extent as > > > > > > to > > > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco > (or > > > > > may > > > > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps in > > > > > the > > > > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all > tanks > > > > > up to > > > > > > 55 > > > > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch > for > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the > > glass, > > > > > as > > > > > > again > > > > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of > reduced > > > > > > support) > > > > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > > > > bond/seal > > > > > > between > > > > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have > not > > > > > yet > > > > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs > resealing - > > - > > > > > and > > > > > > Lenny > > > > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone all > > > > > joints, > > > > > > you > > > > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just a > > > > > choice) > > > > > > in re- > > > > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in an > > > > > > environment > > > > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, > any > > > > > > reptile > > > > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, > > only > > > > > to be > > > > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank > for > > > > > fish > > > > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with > highly > > > > > > elevated > > > > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now > from > > > > > all > > > > > > the medical > > > > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long > > stay > > > > > in > > > > > > the hospital > > > > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water has > > > > > to be > > > > > > absorbed > > > > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and > > cleaned > > > > > out > > > > > > by their > > > > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action going > > on > > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, > gulping > > > > > at the > > > > > > surface, > > > > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the > > filter > > > > > > return. The > > > > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they > breath. > > > > > All > > > > > > the agitation > > > > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the surface > so > > > > > there > > > > > > is more gas > > > > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > > > > waves. > > > > > > The up/down > > > > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface > area > > > > > of a > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > > > > since they > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, > etc. > > > > > I > > > > > > guess if it was > > > > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the tank > by > > > > > > removing all the > > > > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as good > of > > > > > a > > > > > > price. I've > > > > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was Petco > > > > > that > > > > > > used to have > > > > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of times a > > > > > year. > > > > > > Tell them > > > > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them > down > > > > > to > > > > > > about $25.00. > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is damaged, > > > > > that > > > > > > shouldn't > > > > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of hard > > > > > plastic > > > > > > of the same > > > > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to > > make > > > > > sure > > > > > > the front > > > > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > > > > someone > > > > > > removed that > > > > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the point > > > > > where > > > > > > the glass had > > > > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > > > > over 400 > > > > > > pounds of > > > > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get it, > > > > > let me > > > > > > know. I > > > > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right > > > > > side > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > > > > Fungus > > > > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting Day 2 > > of > > > > > > Jungle > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on > the > > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her > > chin > > > > > (do > > > > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back > corner. > > > > > CB > > > > > > also > > > > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just > hang > > > > > there. > > > > > > And > > > > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there > snarfing > > > > > up > > > > > > every > > > > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think there's a > > > > > problem > > > > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get more O2, > > > > > wouldn't they > > > > > > > hang near the water with all the bubbles in it coming > from > > > > > the > > > > > > > filter? They don't seem to be yawning or gulping. > > > > > > > > - pH: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: almost .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: > > > > > > > between 10 and 20ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On a lighter note, I found a 55G aquarium on > > > > > Craigslist > > > > > > for > > > > > > > $45! It was used for a bearded dragon and it will need > > > > > > resealing, > > > > > > > but there are no cracks. We're going to go and check it > > > > > out > > > > > > > tomorrow. The sunlamp for the dragon has melted part of > > > > > the > > > > > > plastic > > > > > > > frame at the top, so I need to see if I can adapt it to > > > > > accept a > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > tank cover or adapt a fish tank cover to go over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I didn't bid on the aquarium bridge on eBay, but > > > > > I see > > > > > > that > > > > > > > it didn't sell, so maybe it will be relisted just in > case > > > > > this > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > falls through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34803	From: greychildren	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Merry Christmas

Thank you for all the help you've given me here,and to all a goodnight

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34804	From: Darlene	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny

You mentioned "Bio-Med" for your AquaClear... I hope you meant BioMax I know we talked about the Dr. Tim's One And Only, Bio-Spira and Safe Start, early on, but you should be nearing completion of cycling your tank so it's not as much of an issue any longer. I know that PP is also used by many for disinfecting plants but I suspect it would be more affordable to buy PP rather than the Jungle Clear Water. oops sorry type-o ... yes i meant bio-max but i am getting another tank this week-end and wanted to do the fishless cycle before i moved the fish or set up a tank bridge. i found a gravel washer that hooks up to your tap ............ they are EXPENSIVE up here !!!! 100.00$ nice kit with 50 ' of hose but $$$$$ since i don't know the owner of this tank, how long it has been empty, where it was stored, what type of fish they had or what they used to clean with i want to make sure i don't kill the fish i will look at the new store for the tank bridge, hopefully it won't cost the earth Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34805	From: Darlene	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Happy Holidays !!!

Wishing everyone a safe and happy Holiday Season ! Peace, Joy, love and lots of presents :)) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny

There's not as much need to fishless cycle once you have a tank set up as long as you are just moving fish and not adding a whole new batch of fish. Once your current tank is cycled for the existing bioload, when you set up the new tank, just transfer 1/2 of the filter media from the existing filter to the new filter, split up the fish and you're good to go. Or if transferring all of the fish from a smaller to larger tank, then you just transfer all of the filter media (or the entire filter system). And if you get the tank bridge.. I'm not sure many retail outlets will sell them but there are several versions available online and you can even build your own if you are handy... I think you said you were. If you want links to the DIY one's, let me know. There's one that is made with acrylic and another that is made with clear and PVC pipe sections. You would also need a length of tubing to extend the intake tube on your HOB over into the other tank so it would create water flow through the bridge and also keep both tanks waters moving between themselves so if the fish decide to hang out in one tank, they would still benefit from the doubled water volume. One of our members out here recently bought a tank bridge on eBay and it was only around $10.00 plus shipping. As far as the Python or Lee brand Water Change System, if they are so overpriced up there, you could get that in one of your smuggling trips down here.. or build a DIY one.. of course the DIY parts might be overpriced up there as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Q: jungle products / Lenny You mentioned "Bio-Med" for your AquaClear... I hope you meant BioMax I know we talked about the Dr. Tim's One And Only, Bio-Spira and Safe Start, early on, but you should be nearing completion of cycling your tank so it's not as much of an issue any longer. I know that PP is also used by many for disinfecting plants but I suspect it would be more affordable to buy PP rather than the Jungle Clear Water. oops sorry type-o ... yes i meant bio-max but i am getting another tank this week-end and wanted to do the fishless cycle before i moved the fish or set up a tank bridge. i found a gravel washer that hooks up to your tap ............ they are EXPENSIVE up here !!!! 100.00$ nice kit with 50 ' of hose but $$$$$ since i don't know the owner of this tank, how long it has been empty, where it was stored, what type of fish they had or what they used to clean with i want to make sure i don't kill the fish i will look at the new store for the tank bridge, hopefully it won't cost the earth Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34807	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas!

I too would like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas. I will be getting the 72. gal. this Sunday (the seller had to leave town for a week)and start the setup process.....Can't wait.. Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34808	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Happy Holidays

Just Wishing Everyone A Happy Hanukkah and a Merry Christmas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34809	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: OT: Christmas Greetings

Stephen C Szabo (steve@...) has sent you a Jacquie Lawson electronic greeting card. Please click on the following link to see your card. If your e-mail program has not displayed this as a link, then please copy the following into the Address or Location bar of your Internet browser. http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1701343504255&source=jl999 Alternatively, please visit http://www.jacquielawson.com and select the Pick Up Card option in the menu. Then enter your card code, which is: 1701343504255 If you have any problem at all viewing your card, please click here: http://www.jacquielawson.com/help_1.asp If you do not wish to receive e-cards from jacquielawson.com, please click here: http://www.jacquielawson.com/donotsend.asp Best wishes, jacquielawson.com Our ref: JLC425544873-CS / 1701343504255 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34810	From: Darlene	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny

And if you get the tank bridge.. I'm not sure many retail outlets will sell them but there are several versions available online and you can even build your own if you are handy... I think you said you were. If you want links to the DIY one's, let me know. There's one that is made with acrylic and another that is made with clear and PVC pipe sections. As far as the Python or Lee brand Water Change System, if they are so overpriced up there, you could get that in one of your smuggling trips down here.. or build a DIY one.. of course the DIY parts might be overpriced up there as well. Yes please send me the links for the DIY bridges :)) i am pretty handy and should be able to make it without any trouble :) it wasn't even a Python or Lee system it was an aqua something ........ Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34811	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Their noticed growth in the short time you've had them shows they should continue to grow, with the maintenance you're providing. As Lenny said, they should be at least around 4" but their grow in the 20 gallon is encouraging. They may not be expected to reach a normal size, but with proper care should do well. With Lucille surpassing Raven and CB in size, in the time you've had them may be attributed to the internal problems which may have been ongoing for a while. Then too, as you said, you don't know too much about their past history, and Raven and CB may be older and may have been subjected to those adverse conditions for a longer length of time (which is now seen as slower growth), but any growth is good to see. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I taped a ruler to the side of the tank and Raven obliged by hovering > next to it. Raven is 1 1/2" from nose to tail base. CB is about the same > length, but slimmer. Lucille is about 2" and has a more disk-shape to her, > so body mass wise she's probably 3 or 4 times as big as CB. I was kind of > surprised that they weren't a bit larger. They're definitely bigger than > they were when they got here and Lucille is just huge compared to a month > ago. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:20 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Other than their health issues, which we'll get you through, it > sounds like they're doing well. You probably mentioned their size > somewhere, and I may have seen it or maybe not (I don't recall that > right now). About how big are they? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > OK, I just realized which post you were asking about. The > reference to > > their growth was just because they're bigger and need more O2. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > > circulation as would an airstone. > > > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or > > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your > > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration > > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen > > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how > > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even > > if imperceptibly. > > > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths > when > > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit > > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34812	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?

Alright, from this we can gather that this is definitely no marking or color pattern indication of any sort. It would appear to be a wound, probably suffered when the fish ran into an unexpected foreign object (plastic rock or plant) you recently placed in the tank -- not that the fish remembered the bottom as being previously devoid of these objects previously though). A panicked fish in the dark can be expected to run into such objects no matter how familiar they are with their tank; for this reason, you need to either limited such objects or see to the safety of them. Some hobbyists employ a night light for their aquariums, just for this purpose, would would help ensure the prevention of such "collisions," as well as defusing any cause for panic in the dark in the first place. While at least some of your fish may be aggressive, or at least known to have the possibility of being aggressive, its doubtful that this wound was caused by any other of your fish, unless some of your fish were of more of a carnivorus nature (Piranha's, for example) which may take a piece out of the flesh. Most other aggressive "community - type" fish will usually attack other fishes' fins only, regardless of which aggressive community fish are involved. Very rarely, but still possible, is an attack to another fish's eye, but this is rare and may been primarily (though rarely) seen in conspecifics of the species involved. i.e., other Angelfish. We are not talking about Lake Malawi scale-eaters or eye-snatchers here, and its even doubtful that Blue Gourami's would have the dentition to take a check out of another fish. If you can get a pic, all well and good; if you can't don't worry about it. Your description of the wound's location will suffice. The main thing now is to treat this wound to avoid infection. Salt addition will help prevent infection as well as promote a heavier slime coat on the fish, creating a barrier to infection. Your mini Silver Dollar (are you sure he's not a mini Piranha in disguise -- LOL) will prevent you from adding much more than 1 Tbs of salt per 5 Gallons, but I'd recommend adding that after doing a 25% PWC to ensure cleaner water conditions. A pencil point chunk such as this should heal in short time. Keep an eye on it for any complications and report back to us if you see anything suspicious. There are a number of routes we can take with some mild medications if need be, but I don't see them as being necessary, at least not at this time. You should think about a small night light (lamp with a mini refigerator bulb, perhaps, I think they're like 7.5 Watts) or something similar nearby to use after lights out. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > This is definitley a pencil point chunk missing maybe a little bigger > than that. Its turning white again and its located right where the > fin and top of his head meet. I tried taking several pics but he isnt > very happy in his hospital tank and wont stay still. Plus my cell > doesnt take the greatest pics. I will try to get a clearer pic > > > Thanks > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > There is always the possibility of your Gourami's becoming > > aggressive, although I would not necessarily blame them without > more > > to support this suspicion. Blue Gourami's are known to be one of > the > > more aggressive species of this group though -- who ever told you > > that Blue Gourami's are supposed to be non-aggressive? This is a > > fallacy, even though to blame all Blue Gourami's for such behavior > > would be giving the species a bad rap as a whole; they're not all > of > > this nature (but many can be, although it may depend upon their > > environment). > > > > If this is a sore or sudden injury from running into an ornament, > > which it could have run into at night -- since you recently added > > these items, the Melafix should soon see to its healing. If this > > mark is situated directly underneath the dorsal fin, it should be > > noted that, while not expressed in all Angelfish strains, this is a > > natural marking as found in the species' wild genes and while > usually > > a small metalic blue or green triangle spot, it can be other colors > > on other variants. > > > > Without having the actual benefit of seeing the fish, it doesn't > > sound as if this is what it is (unless you feel this description > > fits), as it may be positioned ahead of the dorsal from what I'm > > gathering, and if its white its the result of scales and epidermis > > missing (no pigmentation of the area). Could well be a wound -- > keep > > an eye on it while its being treated, especially for any possible > > secondary infection (fungus) setting in, as a white cottony > growth. > > Ray > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34813	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now beginning to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results remaining at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner in which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your water supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria should be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect to keep up. We'll work on it though. Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not especially expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development of this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of Lucille, showing these streaks? Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat for Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe to use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in conjuction with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild medication, which also should be a welcomed bit of info. As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition to Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) need for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine in your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you do not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that your Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or may be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you have chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water companies are converting to this, not only should you have been using at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you should not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue to use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is in your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly under .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm > - 5G PWC @ 1PM > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have an > airstone) > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the Prime and also > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep telling myself > to get it and I keep forgetting. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:51 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You can > grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly obvious. > Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when > seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only be > from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice to > use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen > depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. > > With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover > medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed > stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with the > PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 gallon > tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. Always > nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. Any > improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that > eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will > address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it > becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up > bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that > route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep us > posted. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the > Amquel+, > > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection > between the > > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so > focused > > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a > couple of > > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She > has got to > > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I > think she's > > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about > the same > > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all > three and > > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were > in a 10G > > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > > circulation as would an airstone. > > > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or > > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your > > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration > > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen > > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how > > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even > > if imperceptibly. > > > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths > when > > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit > > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned > > having > > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower > the > > water > > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last > > resort, > > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond > and > > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used > > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert > with > > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ > > alone > > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been > reports > > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the > oxygen > > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine > > added > > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than > one > > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an > > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to > ensure > > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a > link > > > to the > > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the > > > other files > > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > > writing info > > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day > doesn't > > > do the > > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should > > > have arrived > > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > > > almost twice > > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big > > > tank as > > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one > less > > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if > > the > > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the > token > > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 > Gallons > > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, > like > > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in > your > > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel > Sheet > > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can > avoid > > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change > > > (and > > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of > your > > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise > > get > > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I > > had > > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I > hate > > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > > address > > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product > > being > > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > > ammonium > > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This > should > > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to > > avoid > > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing > > out > > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce > > your > > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your > > > cycle > > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same > time > > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 > tsp/G > > > of > > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know > you've > > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the > > salt > > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > > trouble > > > > with > > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess > if > > > > they both > > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on > the > > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the > > salt > > > > level and > > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets > > the > > > > ammonia > > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing > > it) > > > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > > > > PWC. The > > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower > it > > > > yesterday > > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer > sitting > > > on > > > > the > > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is > > the > > > > stronger > > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get > > worse, > > > > I'll > > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > > > > lower. Will > > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > > > this?); > > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > > hadn't > > > > been zero, > > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity--------- -- > -- > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on > > doing > > > a > > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did > want > > to > > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, > > > which > > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of > > your > > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around > > > noon > > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you > were > > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted > accordingly > > > (I > > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote > > you a > > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > > > seconds > > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here > > was > > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't > blame > > my > > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), > > but > > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never > hurts > > > to > > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might > correct > > > any > > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of > > the > > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). > > On > > > > the > > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt > content > > > was > > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon > > that > > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you > intended > > > on > > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on > > any > > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's > that > > > > > day). > > > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing > > when > > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > > REPLACED 1 > > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you > decided > > > not > > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt > a > > 2 > > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made > another > > > PWC > > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 > PM > > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any > less > > > > than > > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no > power > > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, > reducing > > > the > > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out > > any > > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use > the > > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is > extremely > > > > mild > > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope > > all > > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post > > of > > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you > were > > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as > > it > > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear > if > > > it > > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which > > might > > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I > said > > > the > > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a > day > > > of > > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > > > > nothing > > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > > parasite > > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't > pay > > to > > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You > will > > > have > > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > > > nitrite > > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these > > > levels > > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to > > your > > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia > (right, > > > you > > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > > levels > > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > > PetSmart > > > > and > > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where > to > > > find > > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, > but > > it > > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one > nearby, > > > but > > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I > > was > > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores > carry > > > > that > > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last > > two > > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB > actually > > > came > > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there > and > > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I > thought > > > that > > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with > salt. > > > I > > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before > giving > > > the > > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > > > > stress > > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold > > > again > > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO > > LOWER > > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest > anything > > > > else > > > > > without > > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > > > > potential for > > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > > constipation... > > > > > and it's also > > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once > a > > > week > > > > > or so just > > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > > > system > > > > > disorders.. > > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green > for > > a > > > > few > > > > > days which > > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > > > > Maracyn > > > > > 2? And > > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add > salt > > > to > > > > > this last > > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each > PWC? > > > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the > > rest > > > of > > > > > the meds. > > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed > with > > > too > > > > > much meds. > > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a > day > > of > > > > > just fresh > > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to > > > rest > > > > > between > > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good > clean > > > > fresh > > > > > air for > > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any > > meds > > > > > that are > > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so > only > > > the > > > > > PWC's will > > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is > now > > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > > under .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering > > Tetra > > > > > flakes, > > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe > > the > > > > > carbs will > > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a > chance > > to > > > > > work. If it > > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a > LFS > > > that > > > > > might help > > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > > Adding > > > > > anything to > > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish > > CB > > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before > coming > > > here > > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer > when > > > the > > > > > previous > > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. > Since > > > > these > > > > > three > > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some > of > > > the > > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she > may > > > be > > > > a > > > > > bit > > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the > parasites, > > > > > remains to be > > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check > on > > > the > > > > > fish before > > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking > at > > > the > > > > > Christmas > > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to > > even > > > > > care about > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > > retention > > > > > due to > > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > > stunting > > > so > > > > > it wasn't > > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank > > (or > > > > > same size > > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > > water), > > > > she > > > > > is growing > > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't > > > there > > > > > and I don't > > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the > three > > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate > > age) > > > > > What size > > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they > > have > > > > > been in from > > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > > and .50ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. > since > > > the > > > > > last PWC. > > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > > fungus > > > at > > > > > bay until I > > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking > > > thing > > > > > occasionally > > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when > they > > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and > > CB. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and > > will > > > go > > > > > down to > > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs > > Salt > > > > > Levels" for > > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, > > since > > > > > there isn't > > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but > > > after > > > > > exertion > > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a > shaking > > > of > > > > > the head, > > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish > is > > > > > eating and > > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only > she's > > > not > > > > > eating at > > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > > nitrogen > > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep > the > > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the > ammonia/nitrite > > so > > > > > you should > > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do > PWC's > > to > > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons > per > > > > > gallon) of > > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring > > it > > > > > down to > > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, > > you'll > > > > > bring the > > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the > > > 0.285% > > > > > down to > > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > > > > number). You will > > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 > of > > > the > > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After > about 5 > > > of > > > > > those, you > > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would > no > > > > > longer be > > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any > > > kinds > > > > of > > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or > a > > > slow > > > > > gulping > > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water > with > > > > salt) > > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > > > > probably what > > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's > level > > > and > > > > > today's > > > > > > PWC) > > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion > > and > > > > > that choking > > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this > afternoon. > > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering > the > > > > salt > > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > > eliminated. > > > > > When > > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > > > especially > > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > > treatment > > > of > > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > > > > reduced. > > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's > just > > a > > > > bit > > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in > the > > > form > > > > > of > > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > > > > treating > > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > > adjusting > > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, > fish > > > will > > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections > worsen > > > and > > > > > will > > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result > of > > > your > > > > > not > > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > > noticed > > > > > your > > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test > kits > > > > (high > > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like > more > > > > > frequent > > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you > don't > > > want > > > > > to > > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > > remainder > > > of > > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and > test > > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - > > > 15ppm > > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB > > and > > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they > > have > > > > > been. > > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes > > > she's > > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking > head). > > I > > > > did > > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was > doing > > > > > this. > > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > > pellets > > > > > from > > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. > What > > > I'm > > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > > > pretty > > > > > much > > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm > > not > > > > > sure > > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but > seems > > > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still > > > spent > > > > > most > > > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times > > when > > > > > Raven > > > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back > > > corner > > > > > for a > > > > > > bit. > > > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > > > continuity- > > > > -- > > > > > -- > > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into > the > > > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it > > was > > > > ok. > > > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and > > off > > > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' > > > symptoms > > > > > up > > > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I > > could > > > > > have > > > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had > > > clamped > > > > > fins > > > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom > > I'm > > > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave > > are > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message------------ -- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the > water > > > > > > column, it > > > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > > > > > bladders, as > > > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces > > though > > > > > > would > > > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although > all > > > > > > being a > > > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > > > > > bacterial. > > > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the > Protozoan > > > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > > > Goldfish, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > > > (roundworms) > > > > > > they > > > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal > tapeworms > > > when > > > > > > they > > > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > > > > infections > > > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > > > > > impossible > > > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > > > > > clearing up > > > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > > > > > medications > > > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite > > > issues. > > > > > > Since > > > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to > go > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help > with > > > the > > > > > > fungus > > > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite > medication > > > > > > (unless you > > > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to > > have > > > > > > shipped > > > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > > > > > another 4 > > > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt > (alone) > > > > > > should > > > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate > for > > > > this > > > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for > > its > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the > water > > > for > > > > > > an > > > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter > to > > > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") > for > > > > > > treatment > > > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as > Prazipro, > > > > > > in > > > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing > > agent) - > > > - > > > > > > the > > > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you > > > can't > > > > > > find > > > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you > > > can't, > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy > > > this > > > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ > $2.99 > > > > > > (treats > > > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 > > oz.@ > > > > > > $32.74 > > > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > > > > > effective as > > > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > > > > > mention for > > > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by > > Hikari > > > in > > > > > > a > > > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles > (treats > > > 3200 > > > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats > > > 12,800 > > > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If > > one > > > > > > can use > > > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the > 16 > > > > ounce > > > > > > pond > > > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is > > similarly > > > > > > priced > > > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, > is > > > all > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > > > necessary. > > > > > > One > > > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > > > medication > > > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole > (Fluke > > > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > > > Prazipro. > > > > > > Both > > > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, > though, > > > and > > > > > > for > > > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but > annoying > > > > > > little > > > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), > Prizipro > > > > will > > > > > > also > > > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get > to > > > the > > > > > > source > > > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting > Day 4 > > > of > > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting > on > > > the > > > > > > bottom > > > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was > > their > > > > > > choice, > > > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they > > > relaxed > > > > > > too > > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned > > in a > > > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, > and > > > > > > some is > > > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been > able > > > to > > > > > > see > > > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the > > > Tetra > > > > > > food > > > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the > other > > > > two - > > > > > > not > > > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven > > still > > > > > > has > > > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal > fin, > > > but > > > > > > most > > > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine > color > > > and > > > > > > shiny, > > > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking > > that's > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house > > thermostat > > > > > > is set > > > > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic > > > tank > > > > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until > I > > > > > > scraped > > > > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this > possibly > > > > > > related > > > > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > > > > > instructions > > > > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," > > > following > > > > > > a 25% > > > > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, > > or > > > > > > put the > > > > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > > > > before we > > > > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows > up > > > on > > > > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the > PetSmart > > > > > > sales. > > > > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them > > > healthy > > > > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to > > be > > > > > > stripped > > > > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of > the > > > > > > slate- > > > > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into > them > > > > from > > > > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't > > know > > > > > > what I'd > > > > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be > > seen > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > > > > discouraging. > > > > > > > If, by > > > > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang > near > > > the > > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against > > the > > > > > > glass > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also > > gulp > > > > > > at the > > > > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they > > would > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being > > created > > > > > > by the > > > > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are > being > > > > > > bouyed > > > > > > > up at > > > > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their > > swim > > > > > > > bladders > > > > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether > they > > > are > > > > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as > their > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal > > issues > > > > > > on > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up > > any, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without > > actually > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an > owner's > > > > > > written > > > > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's > going > > > on > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never > > seen > > > > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and > suspect > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > Are > > > > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently > > become > > > > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no > bargain > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > > > > > extent as > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco > > (or > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all > > tanks > > > > > > up to > > > > > > > 55 > > > > > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch > > for > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the > > > glass, > > > > > > as > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of > > reduced > > > > > > > support) > > > > > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > > > > > bond/seal > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have > > not > > > > > > yet > > > > > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs > > resealing - > > > - > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Lenny > > > > > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone > all > > > > > > joints, > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just > a > > > > > > choice) > > > > > > > in re- > > > > > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in > an > > > > > > > environment > > > > > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, > > any > > > > > > > reptile > > > > > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, > > > only > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank > > for > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with > > highly > > > > > > > elevated > > > > > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the medical > > > > > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long > > > stay > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the hospital > > > > > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water > has > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > absorbed > > > > > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and > > > cleaned > > > > > > out > > > > > > > by their > > > > > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action > going > > > on > > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, > > gulping > > > > > > at the > > > > > > > surface, > > > > > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the > > > filter > > > > > > > return. The > > > > > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they > > breath. > > > > > > All > > > > > > > the agitation > > > > > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the > surface > > so > > > > > > there > > > > > > > is more gas > > > > > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > > > > > waves. > > > > > > > The up/down > > > > > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface > > area > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > > > > > since they > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, > > etc. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > guess if it was > > > > > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the > tank > > by > > > > > > > removing all the > > > > > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as > good > > of > > > > > > a > > > > > > > price. I've > > > > > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was > Petco > > > > > > that > > > > > > > used to have > > > > > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of > times a > > > > > > year. > > > > > > > Tell them > > > > > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them > > down > > > > > > to > > > > > > > about $25.00. > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is > damaged, > > > > > > that > > > > > > > shouldn't > > > > > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of > hard > > > > > > plastic > > > > > > > of the same > > > > > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to > > > make > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > the front > > > > > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > > > > > someone > > > > > > > removed that > > > > > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the > point > > > > > > where > > > > > > > the glass had > > > > > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > > > > > over 400 > > > > > > > pounds of > > > > > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get > it, > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > know. I > > > > > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > > > > > side > > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > > > > > Fungus > > > > > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 11 of salt) (Starting > Day 2 > > > of > > > > > > > Jungle > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm not very encouraged. Raven no longer rests on > > the > > > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > She rests head up, tail down, at the surface, with her > > > chin > > > > > > (do > > > > > > > > fishes have chins?) against the glass in the back > > corner. > > > > > > CB > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > stays near the surface and does very little but just > > hang > > > > > > there. > > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > yet, when I feed them, they are both right there > > snarfing > > > > > > up > > > > > > > every > > > > > > > > little bit of food they can get. I don't think > there's a > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > with aeration. If they were trying to get mor<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34814	From: bill1433	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny/ for Bill

I'd like to ask a question on this thread, since Jungle Products may be involved.   Are there any other products that are available besides the Dr. Tim's One and Only that will do the same job?  And also, is there something else to be used on a one time situation for putting brand new fish in a brand new tank?  Here I am speaking of stress or anything else that may cause a problem for new fish in a new tank situation.   Bill --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q: jungle products / Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 9:31 AM There's not as much need to fishless cycle once you have a tank set up as long as you are just moving fish and not adding a whole new batch of fish. Once your current tank is cycled for the existing bioload, when you set up the new tank, just transfer 1/2 of the filter media from the existing filter to the new filter, split up the fish and you're good to go. Or if transferring all of the fish from a smaller to larger tank, then you just transfer all of the filter media (or the entire filter system). And if you get the tank bridge.. I'm not sure many retail outlets will sell them but there are several versions available online and you can even build your own if you are handy... I think you said you were. If you want links to the DIY one's, let me know. There's one that is made with acrylic and another that is made with clear and PVC pipe sections. You would also need a length of tubing to extend the intake tube on your HOB over into the other tank so it would create water flow through the bridge and also keep both tanks waters moving between themselves so if the fish decide to hang out in one tank, they would still benefit from the doubled water volume. One of our members out here recently bought a tank bridge on eBay and it was only around $10.00 plus shipping. As far as the Python or Lee brand Water Change System, if they are so overpriced up there, you could get that in one of your smuggling trips down here.. or build a DIY one.. of course the DIY parts might be overpriced up there as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:51 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Q: jungle products / Lenny You mentioned "Bio-Med" for your AquaClear... I hope you meant BioMax I know we talked about the Dr. Tim's One And Only, Bio-Spira and Safe Start, early on, but you should be nearing completion of cycling your tank so it's not as much of an issue any longer. I know that PP is also used by many for disinfecting plants but I suspect it would be more affordable to buy PP rather than the Jungle Clear Water. oops sorry type-o ... yes i meant bio-max but i am getting another tank this week-end and wanted to do the fishless cycle before i moved the fish or set up a tank bridge. i found a gravel washer that hooks up to your tap ............ they are EXPENSIVE up here !!!! 100.00$ nice kit with 50 ' of hose but $$$$$ since i don't know the owner of this tank, how long it has been empty, where it was stored, what type of fish they had or what they used to clean with i want to make sure i don't kill the fish i will look at the new store for the tank bridge, hopefully it won't cost the earth Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34815	From: bill1433	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Happy Holiday's Too All

I just wanted to wish everyone a safe and Happy Holiday and also to thank everyone for all of their help to me since I joined this list.   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34816	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings

That's so cute! I love Jacquie Lawson cards. I must be getting assimilated into the fish world, though. I kept thinking how overstocked that bowl is and in the real world, those red garlands would be poop strands, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Stephen C Szabo (steve@...) has sent you a Jacquie Lawson electronic greeting card. Please click on the following link to see your card. If your e-mail program has not displayed this as a link, then please copy the following into the Address or Location bar of your Internet browser. http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1701343504255&source=jl999 Alternatively, please visit http://www.jacquielawson.com and select the Pick Up Card option in the menu. Then enter your card code, which is: 1701343504255 If you have any problem at all viewing your card, please click here: http://www.jacquielawson.com/help_1.asp If you do not wish to receive e-cards from jacquielawson.com, please click here: http://www.jacquielawson.com/donotsend.asp Best wishes, jacquielawson.com Our ref: JLC425544873-CS / 1701343504255

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34817	From: pam andress	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings

That was so cute. Even the fishies got a tree. Thank You and Merry Christmas to all! Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: steve@...: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:17:30 -0500Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Christmas Greetings Stephen C Szabo (steve@...) has sent you a Jacquie Lawson electronic greeting card.Please click on the following link to see your card. If your e-mail program has not displayed this as a link, then please copy the following into the Address or Location bar of your Internet browser.http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1701343504255&source=jl999Alternatively, please visit http://www.jacquielawson.com and select the Pick Up Card option in the menu. Then enter your card code, which is:1701343504255If you have any problem at all viewing your card, please click here:http://www.jacquielawson.com/help_1.aspIf you do not wish to receive e-cards from jacquielawson.com, please click here:http://www.jacquielawson.com/donotsend.aspBest wishes,jacquielawson.comOur ref: JLC425544873-CS / 1701343504255[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34818	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Saltwater vs. Freshwater

What are the pros and cons of both saltwater and freshwater tanks? And how hard is a saltwater tank to keep?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34819	From: greychildren	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Saltwater vs. Freshwater

Here is a quick one saltwater-very expensive to maintain and stock freshwater-cheaper must fish a bread to be used in the hobby not like saltwater were must fish are cached at sea( witch I'm very against)..that's my take on it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "*Carol Lynn*" <childofgod19832003@...> wrote: > > What are the pros and cons of both saltwater and freshwater tanks? And > how hard is a saltwater tank to keep? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34820	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings

I knew it! I knew someone would make a remark about overstocking the bowl, and, now UI just need to wait for someone to comment on the bowl itself! Now that you mentioned it, I can see some joker posting a message about how his fish's poop is red and why is that. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Christmas Greetings > > That's so cute! I love Jacquie Lawson cards. I must be getting > assimilated into the fish world, though. I kept thinking how overstocked > that bowl is and in the real world, those red garlands would be poop > strands, lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > > Stephen C Szabo (steve@...) has sent you a Jacquie Lawson > electronic greeting card. > > Please click on the following link to see your card. If your e-mail program > has not displayed this as a link, then please copy the following into the > Address or Location bar of your Internet browser. > > http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1701343504255&source=jl99 9 > > Alternatively, please visit http://www.jacquielawson.com and select the Pick > Up Card option in the menu. Then enter your card code, which is: > > 1701343504255 > > If you have any problem at all viewing your card, please click here: > > http://www.jacquielawson.com/help_1.asp > > If you do not wish to receive e-cards from jacquielawson.com, please click > here: > > http://www.jacquielawson.com/donotsend.asp > > Best wishes, > > jacquielawson.com > Our ref: JLC425544873-CS / 1701343504255 > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34821	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Saltwater vs. Freshwater

Okay. Wow. I think I'll stick with Freshwater...lol. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: greychildren <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 1:13:43 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Saltwater vs. Freshwater Here is a quick one saltwater-very expensive to maintain and stock freshwater-cheaper must fish a bread to be used in the hobby not like saltwater were must fish are cached at sea( witch I'm very against)..that' s my take on it. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "*Carol Lynn*" <childofgod19832003 @...> wrote: > > What are the pros and cons of both saltwater and freshwater tanks? And > how hard is a saltwater tank to keep? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34822	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH (GH results)

I finally got a new GH/KH test kit. The results are: - Tap Water: GH=2 KH=2 - Tank Water: GH=3 KH=0 PH=6.6 (I added 2 TBSP of crushed coral to the filter a couple of weeks ago) Questions: - Should I add more crushed coral to avoid PH crashes? Thanks and Merry Christmas to the Group! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Lenny, It would seem to me that with this KH test resulting in "no > reading," that says the same to me as 0 (zero) if there is nothing > during the test that changes any color indicating the presence of any > carbonates. By that, any other tests, even the missing GH test, will > have no bearing on the fact that there is absolutely no buffering > capacity in this water. As a result, unless this tank is being > changed out daily with large PWC's, the propensity for this tank's pH > to suddenly crash is immense. > > While mutually established by all of us as the best route to follow > as the most prudent approach to water chemistry, its usually > recommended not to try to play with it -- except on rare occasions > when it might be absolutely necessary as the only way to safely use > the water. It would seem here, with no buffering capacity, that this > may be one of those rare exceptions when crushed coral, or cuttle > bone as you suggest, would need to be used as a way to establish at > least some carbonates to ensure against such a pH crash. > > Now, I may not be fully understanding the meaning of "no reading" as > the outcome of the test results for the KH reading, as this is not > clarified -- but if there is no reading as a result of this test, > that equates to Zero to me. It would appear the same to me as > getting a "no reading" (CLEAR -- COLORLESS) result from an ammonia > test -- which would tell me the ammonia level is at Zero. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Yes. So now you know that your tank water should have close to a > 7.0 pH > > subject to lowering once the tank's ecology gets a hold of it. You > should > > decide if you want to keep fish that prefer acidic water since the > pH will > > likely come down even further as you've seen. We still do not know > your GH > > readings. It's unlikely but you could have really hard water with > very low > > carbonate hardness (KH). I wouldn't try to do anything with the > chemistry > > in most cases.. and especially if I do not know all of the numbers. > > > > You mentioned early on that you have two other 10G tanks, besides > this 46G > > tank, and the pH is staying around 7.0 in those tanks. Do you have > anything > > different in those or maybe just a lighter bioload of fish/plants? > Since > > you mentioned crushed coral, do you have that in those tanks? I > asked about > > this in one of my earlier replies. > > > > Yes, a sudden pH crash can be harmful, even fatal to fish but if > your tank > > is stabile, then as long as you do your twice weekly PWC's and > filter > > maintenance, you should be fine. > > > > Once you get the GH test kit and results from your tap water > baseline and > > tank GH, then we'll have more info to know whether you need to do > > anything... but more than likely, if your fish have been doing well > on your > > water, then you should be fine. I use a few broken off pieces of > Cuttle > > Bone (yes, the kind they feed parakeets) in my cherry shrimp tank > filter to > > add calcium carbonate to the tank.. mainly for the calcium so the > shrimp can > > develop proper shells. Crushed coral will basically do the same > thing but > > Cuttle Bone was easier and cheaper for me and I didn't have to use > a filter > > media bag. When the pieces of Cuttle Bone get so small that I can > easily > > pick them out of the filter reservoir, when doing filter > maintenance, then I > > just dump them and add a few more pieces. A single 99 cent Cuttle > Bone > > lasts for years on a 10G cherry shrimp tank. I also used to drop > pieces in > > my other tank when I had Mystery Snails and they would actually > nibble on > > it... at least it looked like they were. I tried dropping a piece > in with > > my cherry shrimp but they don't touch it as far as food goes so I > just put > > it in the filter reservoir. > > > > On a related note, do you have a water softener unit on your home.. > or any > > other kind of home filtration system? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > Archives > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > Here are the final results of the water baseline test: > > Values reading right out of the tap: > > KH: no reading > > PH: 8.2 > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > Nitrite: 0 > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > After 24 hours: > > KH: no reading > > PH: 7.0 > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > Nitrite: 0 > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > After 48 hours: > > KH: no reading > > PH: 7.0 > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > Nitrite: 0 > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > Questions: > > - Should we consider the test completed? > > - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden big PH > drops? I > > understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard that a > sudden PH > > drop could shock them. > > - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral would > increase > > KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as soon > as I get > > it. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a year, > at > > most, > > > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of what > is > > > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. More > than > > likely, > > > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have been > times > > when > > > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria > > > will start converting the ammonia (usually associated with the > ammonia > > part of > > > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is one > of > > > the reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our > drinking > > water. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > above > > > listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > > > KH no reading > > > PH 8.2 > > > Ammonia 0.5 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrates 0 > > > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > > > Questions: > > > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their > value > > is 0? I > > > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > > > - How about ammonia and KH? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You > > > either need > > > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding > > > > something to raise > > > the pH > > > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion > in > > > the city > > > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > > > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then > > > once the > > > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. > Often, a > > > utility > > > > will add > > > > > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry > issues by > > > keeping > > > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming > the pH > > > will > > > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > > > > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH > (acidic) > > > and soft > > > > water. > > > > > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact > them > > > to get > > > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are > adding to > > > > the water. > > > > > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to > the > > > fifth > > > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the > condition > > > you are > > > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour > baseline. It > > > would > > > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.htm > > > > l > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > ml> > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > ml > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > ml> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > > > above listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final > results. > > > > > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result > on > > > both tap > > > > water and tank water > > > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March > 08) > > > > to > > > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 > > > gallon tank > > > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the > > > > filter > > > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2- > 3 > > > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > > > > - I don't have a GH test > > > > - I use tap water from public utility > > > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > "goldlenny_blogspot" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a > gallon > > > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all > of > > > > your > > > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add > your > > > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > > > > hours > > > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers > changed. > > > > > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested > the > > > > rest > > > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, > give us > > > > > those numbers. > > > > > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? > Are > > > > you > > > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and > KH? > > > > What > > > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well > or ??? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, > 5 > > > > neon > > > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 > > > > > > cory > > > > > cats > > > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > > > Parameters are: > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading > for > > > > > > the > > > > > test > > > > > > kit) > > > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays > yellow > > > > > from > > > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon > > > > > > tanks > > > > > with > > > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > > > > capacity > > > > > and > > > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > > > > capacity > > > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > > Tested on: 12/10/2008 6:06:30 PM > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34823	From: bill1433	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings

Boy \\Steve//!   That's so easy to answer even I can answer that one!   Its RED becasue it's in "TECHNICOLOR"    Have --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Christmas Greetings To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 2:31 PM I knew it! I knew someone would make a remark about overstocking the bowl, and, now UI just need to wait for someone to comment on the bowl itself! Now that you mentioned it, I can see some joker posting a message about how his fish's poop is red and why is that. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Christmas Greetings > > That's so cute! I love Jacquie Lawson cards. I must be getting > assimilated into the fish world, though. I kept thinking how overstocked > that bowl is and in the real world, those red garlands would be poop > strands, lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com> > > Stephen C Szabo (steve@familyszabo. com) has sent you a Jacquie Lawson > electronic greeting card. > > Please click on the following link to see your card. If your e-mail program > has not displayed this as a link, then please copy the following into the > Address or Location bar of your Internet browser. > > http://www.jacquiel awson.com/ viewcard. asp?code= 1701343504255& source=jl99 9 > > Alternatively, please visit http://www.jacquiel awson.com and select the Pick > Up Card option in the menu. Then enter your card code, which is: > > 1701343504255 > > If you have any problem at all viewing your card, please click here: > > http://www.jacquiel awson.com/ help_1.asp > > If you do not wish to receive e-cards from jacquielawson. com, please click > here: > > http://www.jacquiel awson.com/ donotsend. asp > > Best wishes, > > jacquielawson. com > Our ref: JLC425544873- CS / 1701343504255 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34824	From: onelvlady	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Ebay Seller

Hi - is anyone here familiar with an Ebay seller who goes by: pet_supply_plus_more out of Natchitoches, LA?????? Sells a lot of fish products. Carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 2:22 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Finished Cycling???? I was just typing out a reply to DebR and realized I was mistaken about the dechlor dosage for small volumes of water. When I said 1 drop per gallon, I was thinking of the dechlor products that I use that only need 1ml per 10G so around 1-2 drops per gallon would suffice... since I think the average drop size adds up to around 20 drops per milliliter (ml). With other dechlor products that might need 5ml or 10ml per 10G, then they may need several to many drops per gallon. Check the instructions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Finished Cycling???? Actually, Lenny, one of the fish has made it thru this whole cycling thing and he is fine. Another one has also been in there for a couple of weeks and he is OK too. Yes, those are the bags that I am using. They don't have compartments. One slips onto the black plastic and then you add the pre-measured carbon. That is what I have been doing. Will soak the blood worms from now on. I just broke off a small hunk and put it in. Most are gone before they hit the bottom. Thinking about this, I "think" I have noticed that a couple of the fish seemed to go down hill after I added water or did the 25% PWC. I use my glass measuring cup (I make sure it is clean) and add 4 cups of water when I am just bringing the water level back up. I have been using Tetra Aqua Safe - usually 2-3 drops in the measuring cup. Can this stuff go bad? There is no expiration date on the bottle. My last fish started shimmying after I added water. Would 4 cups in a 10 gal tank cause problems for the fish??? Tests show no chlorine in the water. What I see is new fish are fine for a couple of weeks, then they start to shimmy and quit eating. Unfortunately, they live for many days before they actually die. I will read the articles you suggested in the morning. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? From what I've read so far, nothing is jumping out at me as to the cause of your fish deaths or your cycling issues. Please go through and answer each question as best you can as it's often the little things that provide missing pieces to a puzzle when trying to diagnose fish health issues. If these fish deaths weren't in the first couple of days, then shock (pH, osmotic, temperature, etc.) shouldn't be the cause and it seems you had the fish more than a few days so it is probably something other than shock. I've seen the Whisper Bio-bags that also had zeolite in them. They had three compartments in the bio-bags... two had carbon and one had zeolite. If you accidentally bought the zeolite ones, that could cause your cycling issues as zeolite will start sucking up available ammonia, starving your nitrifying bacteria until they no longer produce nitrite or nitrate. While this sounds good, it's not since it means your tank never cycles properly and you then have to constantly be buying or recharging the zeolite. It's basically another way the filter companies try to separate us from our money... just like with carbon. Carbon is not needed, except for in situations that require it.. like removing medications/contaminations... or in cases where people are stuck with an overstocked tank, the carbon will at least help remove some of the DOC's until that person buys a proper sized tank or reduces the fish load. It's not going to solve overstocking issues.. just help a little until the primary issue is resolved. If the bloodworms are the freeze dried types, you should pre-soak them in a spoonful of tank water for a few minutes to rehydrate them. There have been issues with fish eating the dried bloodworms and then the pieces swell up inside the fish and cause digestive blockage. I hope you've read enough to know NOT to throw away your filter cartridges.. as they contain the majority of your nitrifying bacteria living on all of the surface areas of the filter media... this includes the floss poly pads, sponges, carbon, etc. Since you do not have to change out the carbon, just leave it in for now until we've got your nitrogen cycle issues under control, then we can work on removing the carbon... which could put the tank into a mini-cycle. Read my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more details. Is this the Bio-Bag that you are using? http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024> Which tap water dechlor product are you using? With your high pH water, you should probably be using Prime as a tap water dechlor since it will help with any ammonia issues. Have you ever done the tap water baseline to see if you have chloramine in your tap water? This will normally show up as 0.5ppm of ammonia during the baseline test. While this level isn't normally something to be alarmed at, with a high pH such as yours, 0.5ppm of ammonia is very toxic to fish. In a fully cycled tank, when doing a 25% PWC, it only adds 0.125ppm which would be almost immediately converted to a very small amount of nitrate but in a newly set up tank, with a pH as high as yours, even this 0.125ppm level can be stressful to fish. Yes, stress from being chased will eventually cause a fishes immune system to falter and the fish would be more susceptible to disease/pathogens but will not usually cause an instantaneous death like you are seeing... that is normally related to contamination or shock issues. See my blog's "Disease - Stress Related" page for more info on how stress/shock affects our fishes health. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? OK Lenny - let's see if we can figure this out. The tank has been cycling 6-7 weeks. During that time, I have lost 3-4 fish. They all started shimming and had no other problems that I could see. They quit eating, got very thin and died. Never saw any indication of disease and tank has always been clear and I try not to overfeed. One time in AM and PM - only what they can eat and a few that make it to the bottom for the Cory. I feed flakes and bloodworms. I currently have 5 male guppies and the Cory. After joining the list, I did 25% water changes as the ammonia rate got higher. It did get high but I tried to get it back down. No live plants. Only artifical bought new at petstore and two decorations bought new at pet store. Washed all carefuly before I put in tank. Gravel also new, thoroughly washed. I have regular colored gravel and then added some smaller blue on top of that. I also added some of those glass type beads after washing them also. I just retested. Water in LV is extremely hard and PH is high here and the tank has always been at 8.4 to 8.6. Ammonia and nitrite still at zero. Nitrate came back just as before which is what I would call zero on the color chart. Next color up is 5.0 and it isn't there. Test kit is brand new. I don't know the brand name of the filter. Hangs off the back and uses Whisper Bio Bags, medium cartridges and I add the packet of Tetra Ultra-activated carbon. It is not very dirty right now and this is the second cartridge I have used. The decorations I picked up today are small. There are two snail shaped ones - about the size of your average snail and a couple of same sized shells. These are too small for pond/outside use. I won't add the coral or any of these items right now. The remaining guppies are healthy although the two lyre tailed ones are very aggressive toward the others. They are the newest. Could stress be a problem. These two guys chase the others around the tank until they hide. Thinking about it, I lost others before I got these two but I felt that was due to the cycling. My Cory, although alone, seems very happy and BUSY. What possibility came up with another member? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Remind us how long you have been cycling with fish? You mention four guppies and a cory... is that what you have left now? Did you allow the ammonia/nitrites to get too high at some point that caused the fish deaths or do you know if there was some other issue that caused them? If you have live plants and have been doing a lot of PWC's and your tap water has zero nitrates, then you could possibly have zero or low enough nitrates in the tank... but it's not likely. Normally, even the best maintained FW tanks will have 5-10ppm of nitrates in the water and plants need them as a food source. It's good that your ammonia and nitrite are zero but since your nitrates are also zero, it could mean there's a problem. Double check that you are using the test kit accurately. Make sure the test kit is not expired. If you are OK with that, then lets move on to another possibility that came up with another member recently. What kind of filter system do you have and what kind of filter media do you have in the filter system? Do you have any kind of white rocks/chips in the filter system or cartridge. Give us links to your filter system and the types of cartridges or filter media that you use. I would not add more fish right now until we figure out what's going on with your nitrogen cycle. As far as the decorations, not knowing where they came from would make me very leery about using them. If you knew they came from a SW tank, then you could sterilize them and probably use them without a problem. Salt is not the problem since the little amount of salt they might leach, if they were in an SW tank, would be negligible. The bigger issue would be bacteria, pathogens, chemicals, etc... or if these rocks were used in a garden, then pesticides, etc., could be a problem. While boiling may kill off any bacteria/pathogens, it may not leach out all of the other possible nasties like chemicals that could have soaked into some of the porous stones. Of course, I could just be overly cautious and they'll all be perfectly fine. If your fish start showing any signs of distress, be prepared to do a series of 25% PWC's, five or six of them, one every hour, and run fresh carbon in your filter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34825	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?

Or perhaps the blue moonlight LEDs. I think they would really set the tank off at night... On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Raymond Wetzel < sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Alright, from this we can gather that this is definitely no marking > or color pattern indication of any sort. It would appear to be a > wound, probably suffered when the fish ran into an unexpected foreign > object (plastic rock or plant) you recently placed in the tank -- not > that the fish remembered the bottom as being previously devoid of > these objects previously though). A panicked fish in the dark can be > expected to run into such objects no matter how familiar they are > with their tank; for this reason, you need to either limited such > objects or see to the safety of them. Some hobbyists employ a night > light for their aquariums, just for this purpose, would would help > ensure the prevention of such "collisions," as well as defusing any > cause for panic in the dark in the first place. > > While at least some of your fish may be aggressive, or at least known > to have the possibility of being aggressive, its doubtful that this > wound was caused by any other of your fish, unless some of your fish > were of more of a carnivorus nature (Piranha's, for example) which > may take a piece out of the flesh. Most other aggressive "community - > type" fish will usually attack other fishes' fins only, regardless of > which aggressive community fish are involved. Very rarely, but still > possible, is an attack to another fish's eye, but this is rare and > may been primarily (though rarely) seen in conspecifics of the > species involved. i.e., other Angelfish. We are not talking about > Lake Malawi scale-eaters or eye-snatchers here, and its even doubtful > that Blue Gourami's would have the dentition to take a check out of > another fish. > > If you can get a pic, all well and good; if you can't don't worry > about it. Your description of the wound's location will suffice. > The main thing now is to treat this wound to avoid infection. Salt > addition will help prevent infection as well as promote a heavier > slime coat on the fish, creating a barrier to infection. Your mini > Silver Dollar (are you sure he's not a mini Piranha in disguise -- > LOL) will prevent you from adding much more than 1 Tbs of salt per 5 > Gallons, but I'd recommend adding that after doing a 25% PWC to > ensure cleaner water conditions. > > A pencil point chunk such as this should heal in short time. Keep an > eye on it for any complications and report back to us if you see > anything suspicious. There are a number of routes we can take with > some mild medications if need be, but I don't see them as being > necessary, at least not at this time. You should think about a small > night light (lamp with a mini refigerator bulb, perhaps, I think > they're like 7.5 Watts) or something similar nearby to use after > lights out. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> > wrote: > > > > This is definitley a pencil point chunk missing maybe a little > bigger > > than that. Its turning white again and its located right where the > > fin and top of his head meet. I tried taking several pics but he > isnt > > very happy in his hospital tank and wont stay still. Plus my cell > > doesnt take the greatest pics. I will try to get a clearer pic > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > There is always the possibility of your Gourami's becoming > > > aggressive, although I would not necessarily blame them without > > more > > > to support this suspicion. Blue Gourami's are known to be one of > > the > > > more aggressive species of this group though -- who ever told you > > > that Blue Gourami's are supposed to be non-aggressive? This is a > > > fallacy, even though to blame all Blue Gourami's for such > behavior > > > would be giving the species a bad rap as a whole; they're not all > > of > > > this nature (but many can be, although it may depend upon their > > > environment). > > > > > > If this is a sore or sudden injury from running into an ornament, > > > which it could have run into at night -- since you recently added > > > these items, the Melafix should soon see to its healing. If this > > > mark is situated directly underneath the dorsal fin, it should be > > > noted that, while not expressed in all Angelfish strains, this is > a > > > natural marking as found in the species' wild genes and while > > usually > > > a small metalic blue or green triangle spot, it can be other > colors > > > on other variants. > > > > > > Without having the actual benefit of seeing the fish, it doesn't > > > sound as if this is what it is (unless you feel this description > > > fits), as it may be positioned ahead of the dorsal from what I'm > > > gathering, and if its white its the result of scales and > epidermis > > > missing (no pigmentation of the area). Could well be a wound -- > > keep > > > an eye on it while its being treated, especially for any possible > > > secondary infection (fungus) setting in, as a white cottony > > growth. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34826	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny

Here's the instructions/pics for one DIY one using plumbing parts and a clear tube. http://www.bio-elite.com/waterbridge.htm TinyURL for below - http://tinyurl.com/a8jj35 is an expired eBay ad but you can scroll down and still see all of the photos and diagrams for this DIY A-frame bridge. Following is the full eBay link that will probably break anyhow. http://cgi.ebay.com/aquarium-terrarium-bridge-cleaning-frame-tank-multible_W 0QQitemZ390014962622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item390014962 622&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C2 40%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 These next two are for sale but will also give you other ideas of a DIY plexiglass one. http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/baqtrailaqki.html http://www.aqua-bridge.com/index2.html Here's the DIY Python... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_python.php - the only thing I'd change on this is using a hose suitable for potable water instead of a regular garden hose. Garden hoses will leach rubber/plastic compounds into water that might sit in them. Also, you may not need 50' of potable water hose. I only use the 25' Python for my tanks and it reaches into the hallway bathroom without a problem. It all depends on how far the sink you will use is from the tanks. And a list of other DIY projects. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_list.php There are many other websites with lists of DIY projects. Just Google DIY Aquarium Projects and you'll find hundreds. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 9:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Q: jungle products / Lenny And if you get the tank bridge.. I'm not sure many retail outlets will sell them but there are several versions available online and you can even build your own if you are handy... I think you said you were. If you want links to the DIY one's, let me know. There's one that is made with acrylic and another that is made with clear and PVC pipe sections. As far as the Python or Lee brand Water Change System, if they are so overpriced up there, you could get that in one of your smuggling trips down here.. or build a DIY one.. of course the DIY parts might be overpriced up there as well. Yes please send me the links for the DIY bridges :)) i am pretty handy and should be able to make it without any trouble :) it wasn't even a Python or Lee system it was an aqua something ........ Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34827	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings

So... what are some cichlids, goldfish and pleco's doing the rest of the year when they are pulling plants out of the substrate? LOL I do remember the first time I dropped a big slice of zucchini in the tank at night for my common pleco, he started gobbling it down and the next morning he had neatly decorated all the plants with garland... oops... no it wasn't garland... it was a 6' long strand of pleco poop strung from plant to plant and then wrapped around some of them from one end of the tank to the other. I never fed him that much zucchini again. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:37 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Christmas Greetings That was so cute. Even the fishies got a tree. Thank You and Merry Christmas to all! Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.comDate> : Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:17:30 -0500Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Christmas Greetings Stephen C Szabo (steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> ) has sent you a Jacquie Lawson electronic greeting card.Please click on the following link to see your card. If your e-mail program has not displayed this as a link, then please copy the following into the Address or Location bar of your Internet browser.http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1701343504255&source= jl999Alternatively, <browser.http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1701343504255&source =jl999Alternatively,> please visit http://www.jacquielawson.com <http://www.jacquielawson.com> and select the Pick Up Card option in the menu. Then enter your card code, which is:1701343504255If you have any problem at all viewing your card, please click here:http://www.jacquielawson.com/help_1.aspIf <http://www.jacquielawson.com/help_1.aspIf> you do not wish to receive e-cards from jacquielawson.com, please click here:http://www.jacquielawson.com/donotsend.aspBest <http://www.jacquielawson.com/donotsend.aspBest> wishes,jacquielawson.comOur ref: JLC425544873-CS / 1701343504255[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Q: jungle products / Lenny/ for Bill

Snipped from below... I know we talked about the Dr. Tim's One And Only, Bio-Spira and (Tetra) Safe Start, early on, but you should be nearing completion of cycling your tank so it's not as much of an issue any longer. Dr. Tim's is the only one I would strongly recommend but since Tetra bought out Marineland, they've supposedly re-packaged the original Bio-Spira into Tetra Safe Start. I just haven't been able to confirm whether Dr. Tim developed the technology to have Bio-Spira last at room temperature before he left Marineland or afterwards. I guess he has been working on the process for the past 7-8 years since the refrigeration problem was always a hurdle for Bio-Spira to catch on at retailers... so maybe Marineland jointly owned those patents as well so Tetra also has access to that technology. The original Bio-Spira product had to be kept refrigerated until used or it would go bad but the new technology gives it a six month shelf life at room temperature. Dr. Tim explains this on his FAQ page. I just don't know if Tetra will be as diligent in reproducing the technology as Dr. Tim is. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q: jungle products / Lenny/ for Bill I'd like to ask a question on this thread, since Jungle Products may be involved. Are there any other products that are available besides the Dr. Tim's One and Only that will do the same job? And also, is there something else to be used on a one time situation for putting brand new fish in a brand new tank? Here I am speaking of stress or anything else that may cause a problem for new fish in a new tank situation. Bill --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q: jungle products / Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 9:31 AM There's not as much need to fishless cycle once you have a tank set up as long as you are just moving fish and not adding a whole new batch of fish. Once your current tank is cycled for the existing bioload, when you set up the new tank, just transfer 1/2 of the filter media from the existing filter to the new filter, split up the fish and you're good to go. Or if transferring all of the fish from a smaller to larger tank, then you just transfer all of the filter media (or the entire filter system). And if you get the tank bridge.. I'm not sure many retail outlets will sell them but there are several versions available online and you can even build your own if you are handy... I think you said you were. If you want links to the DIY one's, let me know. There's one that is made with acrylic and another that is made with clear and PVC pipe sections. You would also need a length of tubing to extend the intake tube on your HOB over into the other tank so it would create water flow through the bridge and also keep both tanks waters moving between themselves so if the fish decide to hang out in one tank, they would still benefit from the doubled water volume. One of our members out here recently bought a tank bridge on eBay and it was only around $10.00 plus shipping. As far as the Python or Lee brand Water Change System, if they are so overpriced up there, you could get that in one of your smuggling trips down here.. or build a DIY one.. of course the DIY parts might be overpriced up there as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:51 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Q: jungle products / Lenny You mentioned "Bio-Med" for your AquaClear... I hope you meant BioMax I know we talked about the Dr. Tim's One And Only, Bio-Spira and Safe Start, early on, but you should be nearing completion of cycling your tank so it's not as much of an issue any longer. I know that PP is also used by many for disinfecting plants but I suspect it would be more affordable to buy PP rather than the Jungle Clear Water. oops sorry type-o ... yes i meant bio-max but i am getting another tank this week-end and wanted to do the fishless cycle before i moved the fish or set up a tank bridge. i found a gravel washer that hooks up to your tap ............ they are EXPENSIVE up here !!!! 100.00$ nice kit with 50 ' of hose but $$$$$ since i don't know the owner of this tank, how long it has been empty, where it was stored, what type of fish they had or what they used to clean with i want to make sure i don't kill the fish i will look at the new store for the tank bridge, hopefully it won't cost the earth Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34829	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings

The goldfish poop is red because they ate red food at their last meal... maybe bloodworms that they shouldn't have been fed. LOL That's one thing about goldfish.... what goes in, must come out.. and it's usually an identical color to what they ate last. If you want red and green garland, then feed them blood worms followed by green pea "meat" and voila.. red and green garland. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 1:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Christmas Greetings I knew it! I knew someone would make a remark about overstocking the bowl, and, now UI just need to wait for someone to comment on the bowl itself! Now that you mentioned it, I can see some joker posting a message about how his fish's poop is red and why is that. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Christmas Greetings > > That's so cute! I love Jacquie Lawson cards. I must be getting > assimilated into the fish world, though. I kept thinking how overstocked > that bowl is and in the real world, those red garlands would be poop > strands, lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > Stephen C Szabo (steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> ) has sent you a Jacquie Lawson electronic greeting card. > > Please click on the following link to see your card. If your e-mail program > has not displayed this as a link, then please copy the following into the > Address or Location bar of your Internet browser. > > http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1701343504255&source=jl99 <http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1701343504255&source=jl99> 9 > > Alternatively, please visit http://www.jacquielawson.com > <http://www.jacquielawson.com> and select the Pick > Up Card option in the menu. Then enter your card code, which is: > > 1701343504255 > > If you have any problem at all viewing your card, please click here: > > http://www.jacquielawson.com/help_1.asp > <http://www.jacquielawson.com/help_1.asp> > > If you do not wish to receive e-cards from jacquielawson.com, please click > here: > > http://www.jacquielawson.com/donotsend.asp > <http://www.jacquielawson.com/donotsend.asp> > > Best wishes, > > jacquielawson.com > Our ref: JLC425544873-CS / 1701343504255

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34830	From: Darlene	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings

well from what i have learn here in the past week or so that tank is WAY too small for that many fish!!! poor things will be completely stunted :)) hope you have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !! :))) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34831	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT - Ebay Seller

Sorry.. even though that's down here in my neck of the woods, I've never purchased from that seller. You can usually count on the Seller Ratings though. Read over the reviews for both positive and negatives. But the big question... do you know how to pronounce that City's name? ;-) It's Nac-a-dish... not Nat-chi-to-ches. Don't ask me how... it's only in Louisiana... now the second worst State for convicticians.. ooops.. meant politicians.. thanks to Obama Country up in Illinois. LOL Or how about this street in N'Awlins... Tchoupitoulas St... and then we can't forget about Thibodaux, although that name might be recognized by the many cajun jokes that make their way around. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - Ebay Seller Hi - is anyone here familiar with an Ebay seller who goes by: pet_supply_plus_more out of Natchitoches, LA?????? Sells a lot of fish products. Carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 2:22 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Finished Cycling???? I was just typing out a reply to DebR and realized I was mistaken about the dechlor dosage for small volumes of water. When I said 1 drop per gallon, I was thinking of the dechlor products that I use that only need 1ml per 10G so around 1-2 drops per gallon would suffice... since I think the average drop size adds up to around 20 drops per milliliter (ml). With other dechlor products that might need 5ml or 10ml per 10G, then they may need several to many drops per gallon. Check the instructions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Finished Cycling???? Actually, Lenny, one of the fish has made it thru this whole cycling thing and he is fine. Another one has also been in there for a couple of weeks and he is OK too. Yes, those are the bags that I am using. They don't have compartments. One slips onto the black plastic and then you add the pre-measured carbon. That is what I have been doing. Will soak the blood worms from now on. I just broke off a small hunk and put it in. Most are gone before they hit the bottom. Thinking about this, I "think" I have noticed that a couple of the fish seemed to go down hill after I added water or did the 25% PWC. I use my glass measuring cup (I make sure it is clean) and add 4 cups of water when I am just bringing the water level back up. I have been using Tetra Aqua Safe - usually 2-3 drops in the measuring cup. Can this stuff go bad? There is no expiration date on the bottle. My last fish started shimmying after I added water. Would 4 cups in a 10 gal tank cause problems for the fish??? Tests show no chlorine in the water. What I see is new fish are fine for a couple of weeks, then they start to shimmy and quit eating. Unfortunately, they live for many days before they actually die. I will read the articles you suggested in the morning. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? From what I've read so far, nothing is jumping out at me as to the cause of your fish deaths or your cycling issues. Please go through and answer each question as best you can as it's often the little things that provide missing pieces to a puzzle when trying to diagnose fish health issues. If these fish deaths weren't in the first couple of days, then shock (pH, osmotic, temperature, etc.) shouldn't be the cause and it seems you had the fish more than a few days so it is probably something other than shock. I've seen the Whisper Bio-bags that also had zeolite in them. They had three compartments in the bio-bags... two had carbon and one had zeolite. If you accidentally bought the zeolite ones, that could cause your cycling issues as zeolite will start sucking up available ammonia, starving your nitrifying bacteria until they no longer produce nitrite or nitrate. While this sounds good, it's not since it means your tank never cycles properly and you then have to constantly be buying or recharging the zeolite. It's basically another way the filter companies try to separate us from our money... just like with carbon. Carbon is not needed, except for in situations that require it.. like removing medications/contaminations... or in cases where people are stuck with an overstocked tank, the carbon will at least help remove some of the DOC's until that person buys a proper sized tank or reduces the fish load. It's not going to solve overstocking issues.. just help a little until the primary issue is resolved. If the bloodworms are the freeze dried types, you should pre-soak them in a spoonful of tank water for a few minutes to rehydrate them. There have been issues with fish eating the dried bloodworms and then the pieces swell up inside the fish and cause digestive blockage. I hope you've read enough to know NOT to throw away your filter cartridges.. as they contain the majority of your nitrifying bacteria living on all of the surface areas of the filter media... this includes the floss poly pads, sponges, carbon, etc. Since you do not have to change out the carbon, just leave it in for now until we've got your nitrogen cycle issues under control, then we can work on removing the carbon... which could put the tank into a mini-cycle. Read my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more details. Is this the Bio-Bag that you are using? http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024> <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024 <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753024> > Which tap water dechlor product are you using? With your high pH water, you should probably be using Prime as a tap water dechlor since it will help with any ammonia issues. Have you ever done the tap water baseline to see if you have chloramine in your tap water? This will normally show up as 0.5ppm of ammonia during the baseline test. While this level isn't normally something to be alarmed at, with a high pH such as yours, 0.5ppm of ammonia is very toxic to fish. In a fully cycled tank, when doing a 25% PWC, it only adds 0.125ppm which would be almost immediately converted to a very small amount of nitrate but in a newly set up tank, with a pH as high as yours, even this 0.125ppm level can be stressful to fish. Yes, stress from being chased will eventually cause a fishes immune system to falter and the fish would be more susceptible to disease/pathogens but will not usually cause an instantaneous death like you are seeing... that is normally related to contamination or shock issues. See my blog's "Disease - Stress Related" page for more info on how stress/shock affects our fishes health. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? OK Lenny - let's see if we can figure this out. The tank has been cycling 6-7 weeks. During that time, I have lost 3-4 fish. They all started shimming and had no other problems that I could see. They quit eating, got very thin and died. Never saw any indication of disease and tank has always been clear and I try not to overfeed. One time in AM and PM - only what they can eat and a few that make it to the bottom for the Cory. I feed flakes and bloodworms. I currently have 5 male guppies and the Cory. After joining the list, I did 25% water changes as the ammonia rate got higher. It did get high but I tried to get it back down. No live plants. Only artifical bought new at petstore and two decorations bought new at pet store. Washed all carefuly before I put in tank. Gravel also new, thoroughly washed. I have regular colored gravel and then added some smaller blue on top of that. I also added some of those glass type beads after washing them also. I just retested. Water in LV is extremely hard and PH is high here and the tank has always been at 8.4 to 8.6. Ammonia and nitrite still at zero. Nitrate came back just as before which is what I would call zero on the color chart. Next color up is 5.0 and it isn't there. Test kit is brand new. I don't know the brand name of the filter. Hangs off the back and uses Whisper Bio Bags, medium cartridges and I add the packet of Tetra Ultra-activated carbon. It is not very dirty right now and this is the second cartridge I have used. The decorations I picked up today are small. There are two snail shaped ones - about the size of your average snail and a couple of same sized shells. These are too small for pond/outside use. I won't add the coral or any of these items right now. The remaining guppies are healthy although the two lyre tailed ones are very aggressive toward the others. They are the newest. Could stress be a problem. These two guys chase the others around the tank until they hide. Thinking about it, I lost others before I got these two but I felt that was due to the cycling. My Cory, although alone, seems very happy and BUSY. What possibility came up with another member? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Remind us how long you have been cycling with fish? You mention four guppies and a cory... is that what you have left now? Did you allow the ammonia/nitrites to get too high at some point that caused the fish deaths or do you know if there was some other issue that caused them? If you have live plants and have been doing a lot of PWC's and your tap water has zero nitrates, then you could possibly have zero or low enough nitrates in the tank... but it's not likely. Normally, even the best maintained FW tanks will have 5-10ppm of nitrates in the water and plants need them as a food source. It's good that your ammonia and nitrite are zero but since your nitrates are also zero, it could mean there's a problem. Double check that you are using the test kit accurately. Make sure the test kit is not expired. If you are OK with that, then lets move on to another possibility that came up with another member recently. What kind of filter system do you have and what kind of filter media do you have in the filter system? Do you have any kind of white rocks/chips in the filter system or cartridge. Give us links to your filter system and the types of cartridges or filter media that you use. I would not add more fish right now until we figure out what's going on with your nitrogen cycle. As far as the decorations, not knowing where they came from would make me very leery about using them. If you knew they came from a SW tank, then you could sterilize them and probably use them without a problem. Salt is not the problem since the little amount of salt they might leach, if they were in an SW tank, would be negligible. The bigger issue would be bacteria, pathogens, chemicals, etc... or if these rocks were used in a garden, then pesticides, etc., could be a problem. While boiling may kill off any bacteria/pathogens, it may not leach out all of the other possible nasties like chemicals that could have soaked into some of the porous stones. Of course, I could just be overly cautious and they'll all be perfectly fine. If your fish start showing any signs of distress, be prepared to do a series of 25% PWC's, five or six of them, one every hour, and run fresh carbon in your filter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of onelvlady Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Finished Cycling???? Hi - I need more advice. I have a 10 gal with 4 male guppies and the Cory catfish. I have lost several of the "boys" thru this cycling process. All started to shimmy and then died. I found I don't like taking dead fish out of the tank. Using the Master test kit, I just tested the water and results showed ammonia 0; nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. I thought the nitrate should be higher if the nitrite and ammonia are 0. Am I done cycling? Is it safe to add more fish? Also I was looking around the local thrift store this AM and found a bag of used aquarium shells - probably from a salt tank. There is a piece of pink coral, several small snail shaped shells, one of which is green in color, and several other more salt like decorations - all are small. I am currently boiling them. Is it safe to add them to my freshwater tank or will they still emit salt? Thanks Carole

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: OT: Christmas Greetings

But they've been sprinkled with Santa's "magic dust" so they'll be OK. ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSH9ryRzHQ4 http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/c/cheech_and_chong/santa_clause_and_his_old _lady.html TC: No, man. No, man, how'd he do all that other stuff, man? Like, how'd he Make himself small, man. And, how'd he, like, how'd he get the reindeer Off the ground, man? CM: Oh, well, man, he had some magic dust, man. TC: Some magic dust? CM: Yeah, magic dust, y'know? He used ta give a little bit to da reindeer, a Little bit to Santa Claus, a little bit more for Santa Claus, a little Bit more... TC: And this would get the reindeer off, man? CM: Aw, got 'em off, man?!? Are you kidding, man? They flew all da way Around da world, man! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 4:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Christmas Greetings well from what i have learn here in the past week or so that tank is WAY too small for that many fish!!! poor things will be completely stunted :)) hope you have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !! :))) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34833	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH (GH results)

Congrats on the new purchases; I'm sure you'll find them to come in handy and no doubt useful. As your temporary hardness' (KH) buffering capacity has apparently been exceeded -- dropping in pH from 7.0 to 6.8 instead of being maintained -- yes, I would add more crushed coral. While the amount of crushed coral to be added will vary proportionately with the KH you already have, the usual amount of this buffering material to be added to your filter (and/or to your tank via a nylon bag) is about 1 cup (16 Tbs) per 10 gallons, on average. You may or may not need anywhere near that amount, depending on those elements in your water which are counteracting the affects of your KH. I would start off slow, perhaps adding 6 Tbs of crushed coral, and go from there after allowing enough time to allow it to add to your KH. Happy Holidays and Season's Greetings. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "giuseppesalvato" <giuseppesalvato@...> wrote: > > I finally got a new GH/KH test kit. The results are: > - Tap Water: GH=2 KH=2 > - Tank Water: GH=3 KH=0 PH=6.6 (I added 2 TBSP of crushed coral to the > filter a couple of weeks ago) > Questions: > - Should I add more crushed coral to avoid PH crashes? > > Thanks and Merry Christmas to the Group! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Lenny, It would seem to me that with this KH test resulting in "no > > reading," that says the same to me as 0 (zero) if there is nothing > > during the test that changes any color indicating the presence of any > > carbonates. By that, any other tests, even the missing GH test, will > > have no bearing on the fact that there is absolutely no buffering > > capacity in this water. As a result, unless this tank is being > > changed out daily with large PWC's, the propensity for this tank's pH > > to suddenly crash is immense. > > > > While mutually established by all of us as the best route to follow > > as the most prudent approach to water chemistry, its usually > > recommended not to try to play with it -- except on rare occasions > > when it might be absolutely necessary as the only way to safely use > > the water. It would seem here, with no buffering capacity, that this > > may be one of those rare exceptions when crushed coral, or cuttle > > bone as you suggest, would need to be used as a way to establish at > > least some carbonates to ensure against such a pH crash. > > > > Now, I may not be fully understanding the meaning of "no reading" as > > the outcome of the test results for the KH reading, as this is not > > clarified -- but if there is no reading as a result of this test, > > that equates to Zero to me. It would appear the same to me as > > getting a "no reading" (CLEAR -- COLORLESS) result from an ammonia > > test -- which would tell me the ammonia level is at Zero. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Yes. So now you know that your tank water should have close to a > > 7.0 pH > > > subject to lowering once the tank's ecology gets a hold of it. You > > should > > > decide if you want to keep fish that prefer acidic water since the > > pH will > > > likely come down even further as you've seen. We still do not know > > your GH > > > readings. It's unlikely but you could have really hard water with > > very low > > > carbonate hardness (KH). I wouldn't try to do anything with the > > chemistry > > > in most cases.. and especially if I do not know all of the numbers. > > > > > > You mentioned early on that you have two other 10G tanks, besides > > this 46G > > > tank, and the pH is staying around 7.0 in those tanks. Do you have > > anything > > > different in those or maybe just a lighter bioload of fish/plants? > > Since > > > you mentioned crushed coral, do you have that in those tanks? I > > asked about > > > this in one of my earlier replies. > > > > > > Yes, a sudden pH crash can be harmful, even fatal to fish but if > > your tank > > > is stabile, then as long as you do your twice weekly PWC's and > > filter > > > maintenance, you should be fine. > > > > > > Once you get the GH test kit and results from your tap water > > baseline and > > > tank GH, then we'll have more info to know whether you need to do > > > anything... but more than likely, if your fish have been doing well > > on your > > > water, then you should be fine. I use a few broken off pieces of > > Cuttle > > > Bone (yes, the kind they feed parakeets) in my cherry shrimp tank > > filter to > > > add calcium carbonate to the tank.. mainly for the calcium so the > > shrimp can > > > develop proper shells. Crushed coral will basically do the same > > thing but > > > Cuttle Bone was easier and cheaper for me and I didn't have to use > > a filter > > > media bag. When the pieces of Cuttle Bone get so small that I can > > easily > > > pick them out of the filter reservoir, when doing filter > > maintenance, then I > > > just dump them and add a few more pieces. A single 99 cent Cuttle > > Bone > > > lasts for years on a 10G cherry shrimp tank. I also used to drop > > pieces in > > > my other tank when I had Mystery Snails and they would actually > > nibble on > > > it... at least it looked like they were. I tried dropping a piece > > in with > > > my cherry shrimp but they don't touch it as far as food goes so I > > just put > > > it in the filter reservoir. > > > > > > On a related note, do you have a water softener unit on your home.. > > or any > > > other kind of home filtration system? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side under > > Archives > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:46 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > Here are the final results of the water baseline test: > > > Values reading right out of the tap: > > > KH: no reading > > > PH: 8.2 > > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > > > After 24 hours: > > > KH: no reading > > > PH: 7.0 > > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > > > After 48 hours: > > > KH: no reading > > > PH: 7.0 > > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > > > Questions: > > > - Should we consider the test completed? > > > - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden big PH > > drops? I > > > understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard that a > > sudden PH > > > drop could shock them. > > > - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral would > > increase > > > KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as soon > > as I get > > > it. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a year, > > at > > > most, > > > > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of what > > is > > > > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. More > > than > > > likely, > > > > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have been > > times > > > when > > > > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria > > > > will start converting the ammonia (usually associated with the > > ammonia > > > part of > > > > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is one > > of > > > > the reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our > > drinking > > > water. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > > above > > > > listed on the right side under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > > > > KH no reading > > > > PH 8.2 > > > > Ammonia 0.5 > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > Nitrates 0 > > > > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > > > > Questions: > > > > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if their > > value > > > is 0? I > > > > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > > > > - How about ammonia and KH? > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. You > > > > either need > > > > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > > > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding > > > > > something to raise > > > > the pH > > > > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter corrosion > > in > > > > the city > > > > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > > > > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and then > > > > once the > > > > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. > > Often, a > > > > utility > > > > > will add > > > > > > > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry > > issues by > > > > keeping > > > > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... presuming > > the pH > > > > will > > > > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the tap. > > > > > > > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH > > (acidic) > > > > and soft > > > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should contact > > them > > > > to get > > > > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are > > adding to > > > > > the water. > > > > > > > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular attention to > > the > > > > fifth > > > > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the > > condition > > > > you are > > > > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour > > baseline. It > > > > would > > > > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be sure. > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.htm > > > > > l > > > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > > ml> > > > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > > ml > > > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > > ml> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles referenced > > > > > above listed on the right side under > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final > > results. > > > > > > > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > > > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same result > > on > > > > both tap > > > > > water and tank water > > > > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start (March > > 08) > > > > > to > > > > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with a 10 > > > > gallon tank > > > > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to the > > > > > filter > > > > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - PWC 2- > > 3 > > > > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a week > > > > > - I don't have a GH test > > > > > - I use tap water from public utility > > > > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > "goldlenny_blogspot" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a > > gallon > > > > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for all > > of > > > > > your > > > > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. Add > > your > > > > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait 24 > > > > > hours > > > > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers > > changed. > > > > > > > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever tested > > the > > > > > rest > > > > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If yes, > > give us > > > > > > those numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each tank? > > Are > > > > > you > > > > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? > > > > > > > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH and > > KH? > > > > > What > > > > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well > > or ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > > > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy tetras, > > 5 > > > > > neon > > > > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 kribensis, 6 > > > > > > > cory > > > > > > cats > > > > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > > > > Parameters are: > > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum reading > > for > > > > > > > the > > > > > > test > > > > > > > kit) > > > > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but stays > > yellow > > > > > > from > > > > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > > > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 gallon > > > > > > > tanks > > > > > > with > > > > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough buffering > > > > > capacity > > > > > > and > > > > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase buffering > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > > > Tested on: 12/10/2008 6:06:30 PM > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34834	From: Darlene	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: changes to my tank

i added an air stone to my fish tank to get more water movement you should see the bigger oranda playing in the bubbles LOLOL finally found fine particle filters that i can modify to fit my aqua clear, can't find any for the aqua clear, these ones i can cut so it will give me 8 filters instead of 4 :) changed one filter (the aqua clear 50) and placed the bio max in it with the fine particle filter, no zeolite, no charcoal i left the other filter (30) with the zeolite and charcoal not to get ammonia or nitrite spikes, still can't find the API Nitrate test around here ....... at least not under 18 $ :( also bought a new PH test kit from API since i don't know how old the other one is and wasn't sure it was accurate anymore i just tested the PH and it is 7.4 the "fuzzy spot" on the smaller oranda's tail seems to be less fuzzy, i am still checking it every day to make sure it heals. bought them some freeze dried blood worms and let them soak, they didn't know what to make of them LOLOL i guess they have never had anything other than pellets ......... Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34835	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: OT: Going Way OT

With all the talk about fish poop generated by the fish card sent here where the fish are placing red garland, I thought that perhaps I should send along this piece. This is a weekly e-mail I send out to a personal distribution list--one or two of you may be on it already--composed of people I have known for years. It is a listing, with, perhaps, some comment from me that I have come across recently. Not many are to be found following the beaten path through the web. This is my first annual Christmas edition, and there is one link that can only steer this conversation way off topic--perhaps too far off topic <g>. Of particular interest is the third link I give. (Oh, yeah, if anyone tries out the French toast recipe, let me know how it comes out.) ----------------------------------------------- Hopefully this does not become known, each year, as the infamous weekend before Christmas issue. There is some weird holiday stuff out there, as a few of these entries will attest. First on the list is directed to the techies out there. Everyone else will not really get what passes for humor here. (Just from the URL you can see it is intended for geeks.) http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/36343?nlhtwan=rn_121608&nladn ame=121608wideareanetworkingal TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/9gockf For the geeky types out there, here is the info on some of the tech behind the Callaway Gardens Christmas light show. For the rest of you, most of the links here take you to various Christmas and otherwise light shows that you can enjoy watching without having to read the article. http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/121908-light-show.html?page=1 TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/a6n3d9 Everyone is familiar with Nativity scenes that pop up at nearly every church and elsewhere at this time of the year. In Catalonia, they have a tendency to do these scenes up big time, and in each and everyone there is a "Where's Waldo" type of figure that you need to look for, and the Catalonians take great pride and have fun looking for these figures in the displays. What is it that they are looking for? Find out in this article from _Der Spiegel_. http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,592677,00.html Many people enjoy going out this time of year to look at how people have decorated their homes for the season. They critique them as they go. Here is a handy-dandy citation you can give to the people who have gone too much (or maybe not so much) trouble to set up. Let them know how you appreciate their handiwork. http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9347&tag=nl.e550 Here is how to make the perfect French Toast for your Christmas breakfast presented in text, with photos and video forms: http://www.cooksillustrated.com/recipes/detail.asp?docid=18093&Extcode=L 8NN2AA00 TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/826rab I do not know when this takes place, but here is a peak at the annual Chumuckla, Florida, Red Neck Christmas Parade: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/living/2008/12/15/pearson.redneck.xmas. wear Still looking for last minute gifts? Here is one that is sure to thrill the recipient. It has a built in printer so it is kind of like the older Polaroid cameras where you got your pictures "instantly" from the camera. What is that they say, the more things change, the more they stay the same? http://www.toysgadget.com/tomy-xiao-tip-521-poops-your-photo-prints/came ras TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/4hjjs8 What would Christmas be without a Christmas song from Weird Al? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysI1SzusIOc This is a heads up for those who want to get off to their Christmas shopping in a few years. I'm sur3e you know someone who would like their own space shuttle--the real thing, not some cheap model or imitation--a REAL space shuttle to have and to own. Here's how to get one: http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=for-sale-used-sp ace-shuttles-asking-2008-12-18 TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/7dv625 And, finally, another gift suggestion for the pet lovers you know, from Dave Barry--yes, that Dave Barry: http://www.miamiherald.com/dave_barry/gift-guide/story/782135.html TinyURL for your convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5tf7ob \\Steve// We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling. Merry Christmas! \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34836	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/24/2008
Subject: planted tanks.

are co2 systems required or should fish produce enough co2. what should i be doing to ensure good growth, i have a liquid supplement to add iron and other stuff, should i be adding more than one thing? i know i should have an iron test but i haven't found one, while i'm looking though any other types of test kits i should get, and is there anyhting i did't ask tht i should know

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34837	From: Lisa	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Something is wrong with my female zebra danio

My female danio is looking a little worse for wear lately. She's in a 22gal with a male danio who is relentlessly chasing her. And I know she's dropping eggs somewhere in the tank, cause she fluctuates from being really bloated to really skinny a couple of days later. But the reason for my concern is, she seems to be having a little trouble swimming properly. She's doing this kinda `wobbling' swimming When I looked at her before it looked as if she had velvet. But on closer inspection in the iso-cube, she doesn't. There looks as if there is a little red sore on her side. And unlike other occasions where it's a battle to net the danios, I caught her really easly. I checked my amonia, niterite, niterates, ph, and gh. And all are fine. But the water is a little cloudy. There are three live plants in there. And some driftwood. I removed Aslan back to his old twelve inch tank, cause he's starting to look not so good either. But he's old. So I think he's dieing. All my swordtails and corys are as healthy as the day I got them. So what is wrong with her? Thanks. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34838	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Re: Something is wrong with my female zebra danio

Keep her isolated for the time being to give her some R&R. If nothing else, she needs a rest from " a male danio who is relentlessly chasing her". Without any evidence to the contrary, we would presume that the sore on her side came from her running into something when being chased, or by the male over eagerly nudging her. You only mention the two zebras. Are these the only ones you have? They really need to be kept in a group of 6 or more which will help prevent the behavior that you are observing right now. As for the female, keep her isolated right now, add a pinch or two of salt to the water, and make sure she is eating. Watch the sore to see if it is healing, or if something more is going on. If the latter, we can then proceed on a specific course of treatment, but, for now, we'll treat it like you would a cut on your own person--slap a band-aid on it (salt/isolation), and wait for it to heal. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lisa > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 4:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Something is wrong with my female zebra danio > > My female danio is looking a little worse for wear lately. She's in a > 22gal with a male danio who is relentlessly chasing her. And I know > she's dropping eggs somewhere in the tank, cause she fluctuates from > being really bloated to really skinny a couple of days later. > But the reason for my concern is, she seems to be having a little > trouble swimming properly. She's doing this kinda `wobbling' swimming > When I looked at her before it looked as if she had velvet. But on > closer inspection in the iso-cube, she doesn't. > There looks as if there is a little red sore on her side. > And unlike other occasions where it's a battle to net the danios, I > caught her really easly. > > I checked my amonia, niterite, niterates, ph, and gh. And all are > fine. > But the water is a little cloudy. > > There are three live plants in there. And some driftwood. > > I removed Aslan back to his old twelve inch tank, cause he's starting > to look not so good either. But he's old. So I think he's dieing. > > All my swordtails and corys are as healthy as the day I got them. > > So what is wrong with her? > > Thanks. > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34839	From: greychildren	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Re: Saltwater vs. Freshwater

Yea i have a co worker that has a 120g saltwater and he spends a month $100 on magnesium that does not count water and other add ons --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Carol Lynn <childofgod19832003@...> wrote: > > Okay. Wow. I think I'll stick with Freshwater...lol. > > > Carol Lynn Cumberland > childofgod19832003@... > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: greychildren <greychildren@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 1:13:43 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Saltwater vs. Freshwater > > > Here is a quick one saltwater-very expensive to maintain and stock > freshwater-cheaper must fish a bread to be used in the hobby not like > saltwater were must fish are cached at sea( witch I'm very > against)..that' s my take on it. > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "*Carol Lynn*" > <childofgod19832003 @...> wrote: > > > > What are the pros and cons of both saltwater and freshwater tanks? And > > how hard is a saltwater tank to keep? > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34840	From: giuseppesalvato	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH (GH results)

Ray, thanks for your reply. What level of GH and KH should I have in the tank to avoid sudden PH drops? The current PH=6.6 is fine for my fish, but I'd like to add enough buffering capacity to keep the PH at the current or slightly higher level. My plan would be to add enough crushed coral to get to the right GH and KH. Also, do I need to replace the crushed coral over time with new one because it will get depleted or the same coral will work as long as it's in the filter and does not need to be replaced? Thanks and have a great 2009, Giuseppe P.S. In the meantime my Kribensis gave birth to 20 beautiful frys :) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Congrats on the new purchases; I'm sure you'll find them to come in > handy and no doubt useful. As your temporary hardness' (KH) > buffering capacity has apparently been exceeded -- dropping in pH > from 7.0 to 6.8 instead of being maintained -- yes, I would add more > crushed coral. While the amount of crushed coral to be added will > vary proportionately with the KH you already have, the usual amount > of this buffering material to be added to your filter (and/or to your > tank via a nylon bag) is about 1 cup (16 Tbs) per 10 gallons, on > average. You may or may not need anywhere near that amount, > depending on those elements in your water which are counteracting the > affects of your KH. I would start off slow, perhaps adding 6 Tbs of > crushed coral, and go from there after allowing enough time to allow > it to add to your KH. Happy Holidays and Season's Greetings. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "giuseppesalvato" > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > I finally got a new GH/KH test kit. The results are: > > - Tap Water: GH=2 KH=2 > > - Tank Water: GH=3 KH=0 PH=6.6 (I added 2 TBSP of crushed coral to > the > > filter a couple of weeks ago) > > Questions: > > - Should I add more crushed coral to avoid PH crashes? > > > > Thanks and Merry Christmas to the Group! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Lenny, It would seem to me that with this KH test resulting > in "no > > > reading," that says the same to me as 0 (zero) if there is > nothing > > > during the test that changes any color indicating the presence of > any > > > carbonates. By that, any other tests, even the missing GH test, > will > > > have no bearing on the fact that there is absolutely no buffering > > > capacity in this water. As a result, unless this tank is being > > > changed out daily with large PWC's, the propensity for this > tank's pH > > > to suddenly crash is immense. > > > > > > While mutually established by all of us as the best route to > follow > > > as the most prudent approach to water chemistry, its usually > > > recommended not to try to play with it -- except on rare > occasions > > > when it might be absolutely necessary as the only way to safely > use > > > the water. It would seem here, with no buffering capacity, that > this > > > may be one of those rare exceptions when crushed coral, or cuttle > > > bone as you suggest, would need to be used as a way to establish > at > > > least some carbonates to ensure against such a pH crash. > > > > > > Now, I may not be fully understanding the meaning of "no reading" > as > > > the outcome of the test results for the KH reading, as this is > not > > > clarified -- but if there is no reading as a result of this test, > > > that equates to Zero to me. It would appear the same to me as > > > getting a "no reading" (CLEAR -- COLORLESS) result from an > ammonia > > > test -- which would tell me the ammonia level is at Zero. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes. So now you know that your tank water should have close to > a > > > 7.0 pH > > > > subject to lowering once the tank's ecology gets a hold of it. > You > > > should > > > > decide if you want to keep fish that prefer acidic water since > the > > > pH will > > > > likely come down even further as you've seen. We still do not > know > > > your GH > > > > readings. It's unlikely but you could have really hard water > with > > > very low > > > > carbonate hardness (KH). I wouldn't try to do anything with > the > > > chemistry > > > > in most cases.. and especially if I do not know all of the > numbers. > > > > > > > > You mentioned early on that you have two other 10G tanks, > besides > > > this 46G > > > > tank, and the pH is staying around 7.0 in those tanks. Do you > have > > > anything > > > > different in those or maybe just a lighter bioload of > fish/plants? > > > Since > > > > you mentioned crushed coral, do you have that in those tanks? > I > > > asked about > > > > this in one of my earlier replies. > > > > > > > > Yes, a sudden pH crash can be harmful, even fatal to fish but > if > > > your tank > > > > is stabile, then as long as you do your twice weekly PWC's and > > > filter > > > > maintenance, you should be fine. > > > > > > > > Once you get the GH test kit and results from your tap water > > > baseline and > > > > tank GH, then we'll have more info to know whether you need to > do > > > > anything... but more than likely, if your fish have been doing > well > > > on your > > > > water, then you should be fine. I use a few broken off pieces > of > > > Cuttle > > > > Bone (yes, the kind they feed parakeets) in my cherry shrimp > tank > > > filter to > > > > add calcium carbonate to the tank.. mainly for the calcium so > the > > > shrimp can > > > > develop proper shells. Crushed coral will basically do the > same > > > thing but > > > > Cuttle Bone was easier and cheaper for me and I didn't have to > use > > > a filter > > > > media bag. When the pieces of Cuttle Bone get so small that I > can > > > easily > > > > pick them out of the filter reservoir, when doing filter > > > maintenance, then I > > > > just dump them and add a few more pieces. A single 99 cent > Cuttle > > > Bone > > > > lasts for years on a 10G cherry shrimp tank. I also used to > drop > > > pieces in > > > > my other tank when I had Mystery Snails and they would actually > > > nibble on > > > > it... at least it looked like they were. I tried dropping a > piece > > > in with > > > > my cherry shrimp but they don't touch it as far as food goes so > I > > > just put > > > > it in the filter reservoir. > > > > > > > > On a related note, do you have a water softener unit on your > home.. > > > or any > > > > other kind of home filtration system? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > under > > > Archives > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:46 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > > > Here are the final results of the water baseline test: > > > > Values reading right out of the tap: > > > > KH: no reading > > > > PH: 8.2 > > > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > > > > > After 24 hours: > > > > KH: no reading > > > > PH: 7.0 > > > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > > > > > After 48 hours: > > > > KH: no reading > > > > PH: 7.0 > > > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > > > > > Questions: > > > > - Should we consider the test completed? > > > > - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden big > PH > > > drops? I > > > > understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard > that a > > > sudden PH > > > > drop could shock them. > > > > - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral > would > > > increase > > > > KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as > soon > > > as I get > > > > it. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a > year, > > > at > > > > most, > > > > > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea of > what > > > is > > > > > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. > More > > > than > > > > likely, > > > > > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have > been > > > times > > > > when > > > > > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the > bacteria > > > > > will start converting the ammonia (usually associated with > the > > > ammonia > > > > part of > > > > > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which is > one > > > of > > > > > the reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in our > > > drinking > > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles referenced > > > above > > > > > listed on the right side under > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > > > > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > > > > > KH no reading > > > > > PH 8.2 > > > > > Ammonia 0.5 > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > Nitrates 0 > > > > > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > > > > > Questions: > > > > > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if > their > > > value > > > > is 0? I > > > > > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > > > > > - How about ammonia and KH? > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source water. > You > > > > > either need > > > > > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > > > > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently adding > > > > > > something to raise > > > > > the pH > > > > > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter > corrosion > > > in > > > > > the city > > > > > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > > > > > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 and > then > > > > > once the > > > > > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even further. > > > Often, a > > > > > utility > > > > > > will add > > > > > > > > > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the chemistry > > > issues by > > > > > keeping > > > > > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... > presuming > > > the pH > > > > > will > > > > > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out the > tap. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH > > > (acidic) > > > > > and soft > > > > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should > contact > > > them > > > > > to get > > > > > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are > > > adding to > > > > > > the water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular > attention to > > > the > > > > > fifth > > > > > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create the > > > condition > > > > > you are > > > > > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour > > > baseline. It > > > > > would > > > > > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to be > sure. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.htm > > > > > > l > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > > > ml> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > > > ml > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > > > ml> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles > referenced > > > > > > above listed on the right side under > > > > > Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the final > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > > > > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same > result > > > on > > > > > both tap > > > > > > water and tank water > > > > > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start > (March > > > 08) > > > > > > to > > > > > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue with > a 10 > > > > > gallon tank > > > > > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral to > the > > > > > > filter > > > > > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > > > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - > PWC 2- > > > 3 > > > > > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > > > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once a > week > > > > > > - I don't have a GH test > > > > > > - I use tap water from public utility > > > > > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > "goldlenny_blogspot" > > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill a > > > gallon > > > > > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water for > all > > > of > > > > > > your > > > > > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not necessary. > Add > > > your > > > > > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. Wait > 24 > > > > > > hours > > > > > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the numbers > > > changed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever > tested > > > the > > > > > > rest > > > > > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If > yes, > > > give us > > > > > > > those numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each > tank? > > > Are > > > > > > you > > > > > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi-weekly > basis? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH > and > > > KH? > > > > > > What > > > > > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a well > > > or ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > > > > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy > tetras, > > > 5 > > > > > > neon > > > > > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 > kribensis, 6 > > > > > > > > cory > > > > > > > cats > > > > > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > > > > > Parameters are: > > > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum > reading > > > for > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > kit) > > > > > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but > stays > > > yellow > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > > > > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 > gallon > > > > > > > > tanks > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough > buffering > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase > buffering > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message > clean. > > > > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > > > > Tested on: 12/10/2008 6:06:30 PM > > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34841	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Re: planted tanks.

Depends on the needs of the plants. Many plants do not need any special lighting, CO2 or nutrients... others need all three. Do you know what kind of plants you have? What kind of lighting do you have? Do you have a fully stocked tank or lightly stocked tank? Before adding any nutrients, it's best to know more about your existing ecology otherwise the nutrients could end up feeding an algae bloom, rather than the plants. I have a recent blog about "Planted Tank - So you want a planted tank!" and there are links to lists of some easy and very easy plants. See if your plants fall into those categories. If they don't, then while at Plantgeek.net, try to find the profiles on your plants to find out what their needs are. Let us know which plants, fish, tank set-up, etc., that you have and we can help better. I've never found the need for an Iron Test and all of my tanks have live plants but I do stick with the easy and very easy plants that do well with regular aquarium lights, normal substrate and nutrients provided. I also have harder water with lots of minerals and chemicals in it so my water probably provides lots of essential micronutrients. I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas eve and day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] planted tanks. are co2 systems required or should fish produce enough co2. what should i be doing to ensure good growth, i have a liquid supplement to add iron and other stuff, should i be adding more than one thing? i know i should have an iron test but i haven't found one, while i'm looking though any other types of test kits i should get, and is there anyhting i did't ask tht i should know

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34842	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: (no subject)

Never mind. She died last night.   Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34843	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 12/25/2008
Subject: Re: planted tanks.

honestly... i don't really know what i have, the plats weren't well labeled, i think one was called a bleheri it looks like some kind of sword, which might need high light and probably a bit more care than others, one was a mix of plants but the tag said low to moderate light and one looks like a java fern, just not possitive and another i have no idea, it just said aquatic combo, it was a plant alreay planted in some drift wood. i only mention the high or low light because i was told that the more light needed the more nutrients needed, but its like 5 plants total in a 29gal bio cube, so the light is good, still in a fishless cycle but plan to add some rams and maybe barbs --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Depends on the needs of the plants. Many plants do not need any special > lighting, CO2 or nutrients... others need all three. > > Do you know what kind of plants you have? What kind of lighting do you > have? Do you have a fully stocked tank or lightly stocked tank? Before > adding any nutrients, it's best to know more about your existing ecology > otherwise the nutrients could end up feeding an algae bloom, rather than the > plants. > > I have a recent blog about "Planted Tank - So you want a planted tank!" and > there are links to lists of some easy and very easy plants. See if your > plants fall into those categories. If they don't, then while at > Plantgeek.net, try to find the profiles on your plants to find out what > their needs are. > > Let us know which plants, fish, tank set-up, etc., that you have and we can > help better. > > I've never found the need for an Iron Test and all of my tanks have live > plants but I do stick with the easy and very easy plants that do well with > regular aquarium lights, normal substrate and nutrients provided. I also > have harder water with lots of minerals and chemicals in it so my water > probably provides lots of essential micronutrients. > > I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas eve and day. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] planted tanks. > > are co2 systems required or should fish produce enough co2. what should i be > doing to ensure good growth, i have a liquid supplement to add iron and > other stuff, should i be adding more than one thing? i know i should have an > iron test but i haven't found one, while i'm looking though any other types > of test kits i should get, and is there anyhting i did't ask tht i should > know >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: planted tanks.

If you can take decent close-up photos of the individual plants and post them online... either in the groups photo section or your own photo album... we could try to ID them. If we can't then posting them in a planted tank forum might get an ID on them. Without knowing... and if you want to assure their success... if they aren't doing well now, you'll have to treat your tank as high tech and go with high lighting, CO2 injection and feeding of nutrients... but all of that could be a waste of money if the plants will do OK with what you have. At Plantgeek.net, only one plant species showed up with "bleheri" in the name and that was this Amazon Sword. http://plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=89 As you will see on the plant profile above, it's a medium-high light plant with a moderate difficulty rating that gets really BIG so your tank will not be large enough for it if you provide it optimal conditions so you can either keep your tank low tech and keep the plant stunted and hope it lives without thriving or you can go high tech with your tank and then the plant will likely grow as large as your tank. While at plantgeek.net, go to the Plant Guide>Difficulty button and you'll see the links for the Very Easy, Easy, Moderate, etc. Scroll through the lists to see if you can ID yours... if you can't post pics online. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 7:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: planted tanks. honestly... i don't really know what i have, the plats weren't well labeled, i think one was called a bleheri it looks like some kind of sword, which might need high light and probably a bit more care than others, one was a mix of plants but the tag said low to moderate light and one looks like a java fern, just not possitive and another i have no idea, it just said aquatic combo, it was a plant alreay planted in some drift wood. i only mention the high or low light because i was told that the more light needed the more nutrients needed, but its like 5 plants total in a 29gal bio cube, so the light is good, still in a fishless cycle but plan to add some rams and maybe barbs --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Depends on the needs of the plants. Many plants do not need any special > lighting, CO2 or nutrients... others need all three. > > Do you know what kind of plants you have? What kind of lighting do you > have? Do you have a fully stocked tank or lightly stocked tank? Before > adding any nutrients, it's best to know more about your existing ecology > otherwise the nutrients could end up feeding an algae bloom, rather than the > plants. > > I have a recent blog about "Planted Tank - So you want a planted tank!" and > there are links to lists of some easy and very easy plants. See if your > plants fall into those categories. If they don't, then while at > Plantgeek.net, try to find the profiles on your plants to find out what > their needs are. > > Let us know which plants, fish, tank set-up, etc., that you have and we can > help better. > > I've never found the need for an Iron Test and all of my tanks have live > plants but I do stick with the easy and very easy plants that do well with > regular aquarium lights, normal substrate and nutrients provided. I also > have harder water with lots of minerals and chemicals in it so my water > probably provides lots of essential micronutrients. > > I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas eve and day. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] planted tanks. > > are co2 systems required or should fish produce enough co2. what should i be > doing to ensure good growth, i have a liquid supplement to add iron and > other stuff, should i be adding more than one thing? i know i should have an > iron test but i haven't found one, while i'm looking though any other types > of test kits i should get, and is there anyhting i did't ask tht i should > know >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34845	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: clear flat creatures

I figured i could find the answer to this without bugging anyone, but i'm not having any luck. I have these small, clear, hard, roundish critters in my tank. they behave like snails in that they are attatched to and moving (slowly) around on hard surfaces. I have been pulling them out and disposing of them, but if they are harmless ill leave them be. on the sme han though, if they are not harmless i want them gone any ideas or point me to a site where i can try to look them up? erika wilmington,de,usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34846	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: clear flat creatures

Sounds like limpets. Check them out here and let us know. http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Ancylidae.ht ml or http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php#Acroloxidae Or just baby snails? http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm#snail For other critters you may find in your aquarium, check out these pages. http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] clear flat creatures I figured i could find the answer to this without bugging anyone, but i'm not having any luck. I have these small, clear, hard, roundish critters in my tank. they behave like snails in that they are attatched to and moving (slowly) around on hard surfaces. I have been pulling them out and disposing of them, but if they are harmless ill leave them be. on the sme han though, if they are not harmless i want them gone any ideas or point me to a site where i can try to look them up? erika wilmington,de,usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34847	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: clear flat creatures

Limpets!!!! thats them!!! thanks at least I know they are not harmful. must have come in on some of the plants. they're sneaky, snails are so much easier to see and move to the crayfish tank:-) erika wilmington,de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Sounds like limpets. Check them out here and let us know. > http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Ancyli dae.ht > ml > > or > > http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php#Acroloxidae > > Or just baby snails? > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm#snail > > For other critters you may find in your aquarium, check out these pages. > > http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml > > http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm > > http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm > > http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy- uk.org.uk/pond/inde > x.html > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm > > http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 1:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] clear flat creatures > > I figured i could find the answer to this without bugging anyone, but i'm > not having any luck. I have these small, clear, hard, roundish critters in > my tank. they behave like snails in that they are attatched to and moving > (slowly) around on hard surfaces. I have been pulling them out and disposing > of them, but if they are harmless ill leave them be. on the sme han though, > if they are not harmless i want them gone any ideas or point me to a site > where i can try to look them up? > > erika wilmington,de,usa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34848	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Dropping PH (GH results)

The level of KH, and with its resultant effect on GH, your partially- related GH's level as well -- and the amount of crushed coral to be used to maintain this KH (as previously stated) -- will both be dependant upon the factors/components of your water which will be counteracting this buffering capacity. One of these factors is the natural process of acidification as the end result of your nitrogen cycle, which has the normal influence of decreasing the pH (yet ANOTHER reason for performing PWC's). This factor is directly dependant on you bioload, so there's no way to determine anyone's exact need for buffering capacity. To ensure the prevention of a pH crash under average conditions, it is generally recommended that your KH be at least 4 dKH. This is not written in stone only as it also depends on one's regimen in aquarium maintenance, part of which I touched on above. There are breeders of Discus and other soft-water-loving fish which keep their KH at lower levels, but these hobbyists generally have enough experience to have a better understanding of their water chemistry and what is required of their particular water. The GH is at least loosely tied to the KH, and one can usually expect this level to be at least equal to, if not exceeding that of their KH -- as generally, the KH will be having an ADDED influence on it. Still, if one wants to succeed at breeding such soft-water-loving fish as Discus, the combined KH and GH (TDS) should exceed by much what would test out to be about 90 microseimens. You will not need to stick with this level of TDS though, nor be concerned with this in general fish maintenance. The 2 Tbs of crushed coral you added to your 46 gallon tank obviously can't be expected to have done much to increase your KH. I did mention that you might try adding 6 Tbs of crushed coral to start with; that would come out to be 1.3 Tbs per 10 gallons, far less than the recommended 16 Tbs (1 cup) of crushed coral for a 10 gallon tank - - but this was before I checked back just now to find your tank's capacity. You may instead try starting off with 8 Tbs (1/2 cup) of crushed coral for the 46 gallons, which is still far less than what's normally recommended (76.8 Tbs total would be normally recommended for a 46 gallon tank), but without yet knowing its effects and how quickly it may change your parameters, its always best to cautiously start off slowly. At least you know how much you can increase it to, but do so slowly and keep checking the results; you may not need near what's normally recommended as that figure is dependant on many variables -- including the desired end pH. No you don't need to replace the crushed coral over time. Crushed coral is composed primarily of calcium and will continue to dissolve this calcium as long as it exists. A great 2009 to you also, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "giuseppesalvato" <giuseppesalvato@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > thanks for your reply. What level of GH and KH should I have in the > tank to avoid sudden PH drops? The current PH=6.6 is fine for my > fish, but I'd like to add enough buffering capacity to keep the PH at > the current or slightly higher level. > My plan would be to add enough crushed coral to get to the right GH > and KH. > Also, do I need to replace the crushed coral over time with new one > because it will get depleted or the same coral will work as long as > it's in the filter and does not need to be replaced? > > Thanks and have a great 2009, > Giuseppe > > P.S. In the meantime my Kribensis gave birth to 20 beautiful frys :) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Congrats on the new purchases; I'm sure you'll find them to come in > > handy and no doubt useful. As your temporary hardness' (KH) > > buffering capacity has apparently been exceeded -- dropping in pH > > from 7.0 to 6.8 instead of being maintained -- yes, I would add > more > > crushed coral. While the amount of crushed coral to be added will > > vary proportionately with the KH you already have, the usual amount > > of this buffering material to be added to your filter (and/or to > your > > tank via a nylon bag) is about 1 cup (16 Tbs) per 10 gallons, on > > average. You may or may not need anywhere near that amount, > > depending on those elements in your water which are counteracting > the > > affects of your KH. I would start off slow, perhaps adding 6 Tbs > of > > crushed coral, and go from there after allowing enough time to > allow > > it to add to your KH. Happy Holidays and Season's Greetings. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "giuseppesalvato" > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > I finally got a new GH/KH test kit. The results are: > > > - Tap Water: GH=2 KH=2 > > > - Tank Water: GH=3 KH=0 PH=6.6 (I added 2 TBSP of crushed coral > to > > the > > > filter a couple of weeks ago) > > > Questions: > > > - Should I add more crushed coral to avoid PH crashes? > > > > > > Thanks and Merry Christmas to the Group! > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Lenny, It would seem to me that with this KH test resulting > > in "no > > > > reading," that says the same to me as 0 (zero) if there is > > nothing > > > > during the test that changes any color indicating the presence > of > > any > > > > carbonates. By that, any other tests, even the missing GH > test, > > will > > > > have no bearing on the fact that there is absolutely no > buffering > > > > capacity in this water. As a result, unless this tank is being > > > > changed out daily with large PWC's, the propensity for this > > tank's pH > > > > to suddenly crash is immense. > > > > > > > > While mutually established by all of us as the best route to > > follow > > > > as the most prudent approach to water chemistry, its usually > > > > recommended not to try to play with it -- except on rare > > occasions > > > > when it might be absolutely necessary as the only way to safely > > use > > > > the water. It would seem here, with no buffering capacity, > that > > this > > > > may be one of those rare exceptions when crushed coral, or > cuttle > > > > bone as you suggest, would need to be used as a way to > establish > > at > > > > least some carbonates to ensure against such a pH crash. > > > > > > > > Now, I may not be fully understanding the meaning of "no > reading" > > as > > > > the outcome of the test results for the KH reading, as this is > > not > > > > clarified -- but if there is no reading as a result of this > test, > > > > that equates to Zero to me. It would appear the same to me as > > > > getting a "no reading" (CLEAR -- COLORLESS) result from an > > ammonia > > > > test -- which would tell me the ammonia level is at Zero. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes. So now you know that your tank water should have close > to > > a > > > > 7.0 pH > > > > > subject to lowering once the tank's ecology gets a hold of > it. > > You > > > > should > > > > > decide if you want to keep fish that prefer acidic water > since > > the > > > > pH will > > > > > likely come down even further as you've seen. We still do > not > > know > > > > your GH > > > > > readings. It's unlikely but you could have really hard water > > with > > > > very low > > > > > carbonate hardness (KH). I wouldn't try to do anything with > > the > > > > chemistry > > > > > in most cases.. and especially if I do not know all of the > > numbers. > > > > > > > > > > You mentioned early on that you have two other 10G tanks, > > besides > > > > this 46G > > > > > tank, and the pH is staying around 7.0 in those tanks. Do > you > > have > > > > anything > > > > > different in those or maybe just a lighter bioload of > > fish/plants? > > > > Since > > > > > you mentioned crushed coral, do you have that in those > tanks? > > I > > > > asked about > > > > > this in one of my earlier replies. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a sudden pH crash can be harmful, even fatal to fish but > > if > > > > your tank > > > > > is stabile, then as long as you do your twice weekly PWC's > and > > > > filter > > > > > maintenance, you should be fine. > > > > > > > > > > Once you get the GH test kit and results from your tap water > > > > baseline and > > > > > tank GH, then we'll have more info to know whether you need > to > > do > > > > > anything... but more than likely, if your fish have been > doing > > well > > > > on your > > > > > water, then you should be fine. I use a few broken off > pieces > > of > > > > Cuttle > > > > > Bone (yes, the kind they feed parakeets) in my cherry shrimp > > tank > > > > filter to > > > > > add calcium carbonate to the tank.. mainly for the calcium so > > the > > > > shrimp can > > > > > develop proper shells. Crushed coral will basically do the > > same > > > > thing but > > > > > Cuttle Bone was easier and cheaper for me and I didn't have > to > > use > > > > a filter > > > > > media bag. When the pieces of Cuttle Bone get so small that > I > > can > > > > easily > > > > > pick them out of the filter reservoir, when doing filter > > > > maintenance, then I > > > > > just dump them and add a few more pieces. A single 99 cent > > Cuttle > > > > Bone > > > > > lasts for years on a 10G cherry shrimp tank. I also used to > > drop > > > > pieces in > > > > > my other tank when I had Mystery Snails and they would > actually > > > > nibble on > > > > > it... at least it looked like they were. I tried dropping a > > piece > > > > in with > > > > > my cherry shrimp but they don't touch it as far as food goes > so > > I > > > > just put > > > > > it in the filter reservoir. > > > > > > > > > > On a related note, do you have a water softener unit on your > > home.. > > > > or any > > > > > other kind of home filtration system? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the right side > > under > > > > Archives > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:46 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > > > > > Here are the final results of the water baseline test: > > > > > Values reading right out of the tap: > > > > > KH: no reading > > > > > PH: 8.2 > > > > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > > > > > > > After 24 hours: > > > > > KH: no reading > > > > > PH: 7.0 > > > > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > > > > > > > After 48 hours: > > > > > KH: no reading > > > > > PH: 7.0 > > > > > Ammonia: 0.5 > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > Nitrates: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Questions: > > > > > - Should we consider the test completed? > > > > > - Should I try to increase buffer capacity to avoid sudden > big > > PH > > > > drops? I > > > > > understand that my fish are fine with low PH but I've heard > > that a > > > > sudden PH > > > > > drop could shock them. > > > > > - If the answer is yes do you think that adding crushed coral > > would > > > > increase > > > > > KH? I just ordered a GH test as well and will post reading as > > soon > > > > as I get > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Since baseline testing only has to be done a couple times a > > year, > > > > at > > > > > most, > > > > > > it's good to run all the tests just to have the best idea > of > > what > > > > is > > > > > > happening to your tap water after it goes into your tank. > > More > > > > than > > > > > likely, > > > > > > the nitrite and nitrate will stay the same but there have > > been > > > > times > > > > > when > > > > > > city pipes will start to grow nitrifying bacteria and the > > bacteria > > > > > > will start converting the ammonia (usually associated with > > the > > > > ammonia > > > > > part of > > > > > > chloramine) to nitrites even all the way to nitrates which > is > > one > > > > of > > > > > > the reasons why the EPA allows up to 10ppm of nitrates in > our > > > > drinking > > > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to articles > referenced > > > > above > > > > > > listed on the right side under > > > > > Archives > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:17 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > > > > > > > Results from first baseline test on tap water: > > > > > > KH no reading > > > > > > PH 8.2 > > > > > > Ammonia 0.5 > > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > > Nitrates 0 > > > > > > Next test will be posted in 24 hours > > > > > > Questions: > > > > > > - Do I need to keep testing Nitrite and Nitrates even if > > their > > > > value > > > > > is 0? I > > > > > > figure water in a bucket can't build nitrite or nitrates. > > > > > > - How about ammonia and KH? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have a very low KH in your source > water. > > You > > > > > > either need > > > > > > > to do more frequent PWC's to keep a constant inflow of the > > > > > > > low-buffered water from your tap. They are apparently > adding > > > > > > > something to raise > > > > > > the pH > > > > > > > while it is flowing through the city pipes (to deter > > corrosion > > > > in > > > > > > the city > > > > > > > pipes) but once the water is exposed to light and air, it > > > > > > > dissipates/deteriorates until your pH drops down to 7.0 > and > > then > > > > > > once the > > > > > > > ecology of the tank takes over, the pH drops even > further. > > > > Often, a > > > > > > utility > > > > > > > will add > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like someone else mentioned... you can avoid the > chemistry > > > > issues by > > > > > > keeping > > > > > > > fish that prefer your 48 hour baseline tap water... > > presuming > > > > the pH > > > > > > will > > > > > > > drop down a lot from the 8.4 pH that you test right out > the > > tap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are many, many to choose from that prefer a low pH > > > > (acidic) > > > > > > and soft > > > > > > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since your water is from a public utility, you should > > contact > > > > them > > > > > > to get > > > > > > > your annual water report which would reveal what they are > > > > adding to > > > > > > > the water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this article for more info and pay particular > > attention to > > > > the > > > > > > fifth > > > > > > > paragraph about "Lime Treatment" which seems to create > the > > > > condition > > > > > > you are > > > > > > > seeing... but we'll know more once you do your 48 hour > > > > baseline. It > > > > > > would > > > > > > > be good for you to get a GH test kit as well... just to > be > > sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.htm > > > > > > > l > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > > > > ml> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > > > > ml > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/water_purification.ht > > > > > > > ml> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to articles > > referenced > > > > > > > above listed on the right side under > > > > > > Archives > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of giuseppesalvato > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:51 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dropping PH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll do the baseline tests as suggested and post the > final > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To answer some of the other questions: > > > > > > > - It's the first time that I test KH and I get the same > > result > > > > on > > > > > > both tap > > > > > > > water and tank water > > > > > > > - PH in the 46 gallon tank has been 7.0 from tank start > > (March > > > > 08) > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > 1 month ago and dropped suddenly. I had the same issue > with > > a 10 > > > > > > gallon tank > > > > > > > last year and the solution was adding some crushed coral > to > > the > > > > > > > filter > > > > > > > - Details of the other 2 tanks: > > > > > > > > 10 gallon quarantine - 7 neon tetras and 2 otocinclus - > > PWC 2- > > > > 3 > > > > > > > times a week 20-30% each time > > > > > > > > 10 gallon hospital tank - 2 neon tetras - PWC 30% once > a > > week > > > > > > > - I don't have a GH test > > > > > > > - I use tap water from public utility > > > > > > > - Filter maintenance is every 2-3 weeks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > > "goldlenny_blogspot" > > > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to do a baseline test on your tap water. Fill > a > > > > gallon > > > > > > > > bucket or other wide mouth container. Test the water > for > > all > > > > of > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > tests. Add an air stone if available, but not > necessary. > > Add > > > > your > > > > > > > > dechlor product. Wait 24 hours. Run all tests again. > Wait > > 24 > > > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > and run all tests again. Let us know how much the > numbers > > > > changed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You mention the pH test on your tap but have you ever > > tested > > > > the > > > > > > > rest > > > > > > > > of your tap water parameters right out of the tap? If > > yes, > > > > give us > > > > > > > > those numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides the 25% PWC's... is that twice a week on each > > tank? > > > > Are > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > also doing filter maintenance on a weekly or bi- weekly > > basis? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have your tank's test results always been so low for pH > > and > > > > KH? > > > > > > > What > > > > > > > > are the bioloads like in the two 10G tanks? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a GH test kit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you get your tap water from a public utility or a > well > > > > or ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > , "giuseppesalvato" > > > > > > > > <giuseppesalvato@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a 46 gallon heavily planted tank with 6 rosy > > tetras, > > > > 5 > > > > > > > neon > > > > > > > > > tetras, 4 pristella maxillaris, 2 otocinclus, 2 > > kribensis, 6 > > > > > > > > > cory > > > > > > > > cats > > > > > > > > > and 4 amano shrimps. > > > > > > > > > Parameters are: > > > > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > > > > > Nitrates 5 > > > > > > > > > PH 6.0 (or less due to color reaching the minimum > > reading > > > > for > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > > kit) > > > > > > > > > KH not readable (i.e. solution never turns blue but > > stays > > > > yellow > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > first drop using Tetratest KH) > > > > > > > > > PH reading on my tap water is 8.4. I have 2 other 10 > > gallon > > > > > > > > > tanks > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > PH 7.0. > > > > > > > > > I do 2 25% PWC a week. > > > > > > > > > I looked for dead plants or fish but didn't find any. > > > > > > > > > I suspect that my tap water does not have enough > > buffering > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > the PH drops. Do you folks think the same? > > > > > > > > > Given my fish population, should I try to increase > > buffering > > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > > > maybe by adding some crushed coral to the filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message > > clean. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Virus Database (VPS): 081210-0, 12/10/2008 > > > > > Tested on: 12/10/2008 6:06:30 PM > > > > > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34849	From: Wendie	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Java Moss

I prefer plants and have always had them in my tanks. Recently I bought a couple balls of Java Moss for an established tank. I received them and they looked great. I rinsed them off and put them in the tank. Within 10 days, my three black kuhli loaches lay dying on the gravel. These guys were with me for over 5 years without any problems. Shortly after that, my entire kuhli loach colony lay dying on the gravel and elsewhere. These guys had been with me for about 4 years and were doing great. Never sick, never had a problem with them. I have more black kuhlis in another tank (same group and doing great), but my regular kuhlis are wiped out now. Where did I go wrong? It looked great. No snails, no smell. Just nice looking moss. I am closing down that tank now. With the electricity so darn high around here I might just as well try saving a little bit. I have 4 other tanks running.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34850	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss

You say that you rinsed the java moss. Exactly what do you mean by that? Just rinse them in plain water? Gave them a bath with an alum solution? Potassium permanganate? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Wendie > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > I prefer plants and have always had them in my tanks. Recently I > bought a couple balls of Java Moss for an established tank. I > received them and they looked great. I rinsed them off and put them > in the tank. Within 10 days, my three black kuhli loaches lay dying > on the gravel. These guys were with me for over 5 years without any > problems. Shortly after that, my entire kuhli loach colony lay dying > on the gravel and elsewhere. These guys had been with me for about 4 > years and were doing great. Never sick, never had a problem with > them. I have more black kuhlis in another tank (same group and doing > great), but my regular kuhlis are wiped out now. > > Where did I go wrong? It looked great. No snails, no smell. Just > nice looking moss. > > I am closing down that tank now. With the electricity so darn high > around here I might just as well try saving a little bit. I have 4 > other tanks running. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34851	From: Wendie	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss

Plain water as I'd never had a problem before. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss You say that you rinsed the java moss. Exactly what do you mean by that? Just rinse them in plain water? Gave them a bath with an alum solution? Potassium permanganate? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Wendie > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > I prefer plants and have always had them in my tanks. Recently I > bought a couple balls of Java Moss for an established tank. I > received them and they looked great. I rinsed them off and put them > in the tank. Within 10 days, my three black kuhli loaches lay dying > on the gravel. These guys were with me for over 5 years without any > problems. Shortly after that, my entire kuhli loach colony lay dying > on the gravel and elsewhere. These guys had been with me for about 4 > years and were doing great. Never sick, never had a problem with > them. I have more black kuhlis in another tank (same group and doing > great), but my regular kuhlis are wiped out now. > > Where did I go wrong? It looked great. No snails, no smell. Just > nice looking moss. > > I am closing down that tank now. With the electricity so darn high > around here I might just as well try saving a little bit. I have 4 > other tanks running. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss

Had your water parameters changed at all? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Wendie > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 12:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > Plain water as I'd never had a problem before. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:57 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > You say that you rinsed the java moss. Exactly what do you mean by that? Just rinse them in > plain water? Gave them a bath with an alum solution? Potassium permanganate? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > Wendie > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > > I prefer plants and have always had them in my tanks. Recently I > > bought a couple balls of Java Moss for an established tank. I > > received them and they looked great. I rinsed them off and put them > > in the tank. Within 10 days, my three black kuhli loaches lay dying > > on the gravel. These guys were with me for over 5 years without any > > problems. Shortly after that, my entire kuhli loach colony lay dying > > on the gravel and elsewhere. These guys had been with me for about 4 > > years and were doing great. Never sick, never had a problem with > > them. I have more black kuhlis in another tank (same group and doing > > great), but my regular kuhlis are wiped out now. > > > > Where did I go wrong? It looked great. No snails, no smell. Just > > nice looking moss. > > > > I am closing down that tank now. With the electricity so darn high > > around here I might just as well try saving a little bit. I have 4 > > other tanks running. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & > if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss

Did you see the seller remove the plants from their tank and bag them up for you? Could they have given them a dip in some kind of disinfectant (alum, PP, bleach, etc.) and then didn't rinse them fully so you introduced that to your tank? As \\Steve// asked, what were your water parameters before and after? Check your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc... always the first thing that should be done whenever there is a noticeable issue just to verify that these things are not part of the problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss Had your water parameters changed at all? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wendie > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 12:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > Plain water as I'd never had a problem before. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:57 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > You say that you rinsed the java moss. Exactly what do you mean by > that? Just rinse them in plain water? Gave them a bath with an alum solution? Potassium permanganate? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wendie > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > > I prefer plants and have always had them in my tanks. Recently I > > bought a couple balls of Java Moss for an established tank. I > > received them and they looked great. I rinsed them off and put them > > in the tank. Within 10 days, my three black kuhli loaches lay dying > > on the gravel. These guys were with me for over 5 years without any > > problems. Shortly after that, my entire kuhli loach colony lay dying > > on the gravel and elsewhere. These guys had been with me for about 4 > > years and were doing great. Never sick, never had a problem with > > them. I have more black kuhlis in another tank (same group and doing > > great), but my regular kuhlis are wiped out now. > > > > Where did I go wrong? It looked great. No snails, no smell. Just > > nice looking moss. > > > > I am closing down that tank now. With the electricity so darn high > > around here I might just as well try saving a little bit. I have 4 > > other tanks running.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34854	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update later tonight. - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my Baseline tests were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. I'll verify that before my post tonight. - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a picture. - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest more than the others. - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap filter. It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the Prime. For some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the filter, but I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water before I do anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the fish don't need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at least 3 days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I need to do a PWC before then? More later. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now beginning to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results remaining at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner in which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your water supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria should be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect to keep up. We'll work on it though. Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not especially expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development of this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of Lucille, showing these streaks? Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat for Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe to use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in conjuction with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild medication, which also should be a welcomed bit of info. As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition to Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) need for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine in your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you do not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that your Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or may be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you have chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water companies are converting to this, not only should you have been using at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you should not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue to use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is in your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly under .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm > - 5G PWC @ 1PM > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have an > airstone) > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the Prime and also > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep telling myself > to get it and I keep forgetting. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:51 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You can > grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly obvious. > Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when > seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only be > from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice to > use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen > depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. > > With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover > medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed > stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with the > PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 gallon > tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. Always > nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. Any > improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that > eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will > address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it > becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up > bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that > route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep us > posted. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the > Amquel+, > > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection > between the > > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so > focused > > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a > couple of > > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She > has got to > > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I > think she's > > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about > the same > > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all > three and > > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were > in a 10G > > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > > circulation as would an airstone. > > > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or > > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your > > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration > > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen > > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how > > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even > > if imperceptibly. > > > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths > when > > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit > > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned > > having > > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower > the > > water > > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last > > resort, > > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond > and > > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used > > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert > with > > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ > > alone > > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been > reports > > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the > oxygen > > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine > > added > > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than > one > > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an > > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to > ensure > > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a > link > > > to the > > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the > > > other files > > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > > writing info > > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day > doesn't > > > do the > > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should > > > have arrived > > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > > > almost twice > > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big > > > tank as > > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one > less > > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if > > the > > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the > token > > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 > Gallons > > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, > like > > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in > your > > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel > Sheet > > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can > avoid > > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change > > > (and > > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of > your > > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise > > get > > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I > > had > > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I > hate > > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > > address > > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product > > being > > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > > ammonium > > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This > should > > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to > > avoid > > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing > > out > > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce > > your > > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your > > > cycle > > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same > time > > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 > tsp/G > > > of > > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know > you've > > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the > > salt > > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > > trouble > > > > with > > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess > if > > > > they both > > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on > the > > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the > > salt > > > > level and > > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets > > the > > > > ammonia > > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing > > it) > > > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > > > > PWC. The > > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower > it > > > > yesterday > > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer > sitting > > > on > > > > the > > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is > > the > > > > stronger > > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get > > worse, > > > > I'll > > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > > > > lower. Will > > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > > > this?); > > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > > hadn't > > > > been zero, > > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity--------- -- > -- > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on > > doing > > > a > > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did > want > > to > > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, > > > which > > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of > > your > > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around > > > noon > > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you > were > > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted > accordingly > > > (I > > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote > > you a > > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > > > seconds > > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here > > was > > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't > blame > > my > > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), > > but > > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never > hurts > > > to > > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might > correct > > > any > > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of > > the > > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). > > On > > > > the > > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt > content > > > was > > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon > > that > > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you > intended > > > on > > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on > > any > > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's > that > > > > > day). > > > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing > > when > > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > > REPLACED 1 > > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you > decided > > > not > > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt > a > > 2 > > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made > another > > > PWC > > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 > PM > > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any > less > > > > than > > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no > power > > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, > reducing > > > the > > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out > > any > > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use > the > > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is > extremely > > > > mild > > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope > > all > > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post > > of > > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you > were > > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as > > it > > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear > if > > > it > > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which > > might > > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I > said > > > the > > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a > day > > > of > > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > > > > nothing > > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > > parasite > > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't > pay > > to > > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You > will > > > have > > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > > > nitrite > > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these > > > levels > > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to > > your > > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia > (right, > > > you > > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > > levels > > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > > PetSmart > > > > and > > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where > to > > > find > > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, > but > > it > > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one > nearby, > > > but > > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I > > was > > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores > carry > > > > that > > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last > > two > > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB > actually > > > came > > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there > and > > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I > thought > > > that > > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with > salt. > > > I > > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before > giving > > > the > > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > > > > stress > > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold > > > again > > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO > > LOWER > > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest > anything > > > > else > > > > > without > > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > > > > potential for > > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > > constipation... > > > > > and it's also > > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once > a > > > week > > > > > or so just > > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > > > system > > > > > disorders.. > > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green > for > > a > > > > few > > > > > days which > > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > > > > Maracyn > > > > > 2? And > > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add > salt > > > to > > > > > this last > > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each > PWC? > > > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the > > rest > > > of > > > > > the meds. > > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed > with > > > too > > > > > much meds. > > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a > day > > of > > > > > just fresh > > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to > > > rest > > > > > between > > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good > clean > > > > fresh > > > > > air for > > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any > > meds > > > > > that are > > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so > only > > > the > > > > > PWC's will > > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is > now > > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > > under .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering > > Tetra > > > > > flakes, > > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe > > the > > > > > carbs will > > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a > chance > > to > > > > > work. If it > > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a > LFS > > > that > > > > > might help > > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > > Adding > > > > > anything to > > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish > > CB > > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before > coming > > > here > > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer > when > > > the > > > > > previous > > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. > Since > > > > these > > > > > three > > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some > of > > > the > > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she > may > > > be > > > > a > > > > > bit > > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the > parasites, > > > > > remains to be > > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check > on > > > the > > > > > fish before > > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking > at > > > the > > > > > Christmas > > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to > > even > > > > > care about > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > > retention > > > > > due to > > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > > stunting > > > so > > > > > it wasn't > > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank > > (or > > > > > same size > > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > > water), > > > > she > > > > > is growing > > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't > > > there > > > > > and I don't > > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the > three > > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate > > age) > > > > > What size > > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they > > have > > > > > been in from > > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > > and .50ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. > since > > > the > > > > > last PWC. > > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > > fungus > > > at > > > > > bay until I > > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking > > > thing > > > > > occasionally > > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when > they > > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and > > CB. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and > > will > > > go > > > > > down to > > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs > > Salt > > > > > Levels" for > > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, > > since > > > > > there isn't > > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but > > > after > > > > > exertion > > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a > shaking > > > of > > > > > the head, > > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish > is > > > > > eating and > > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only > she's > > > not > > > > > eating at > > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > > nitrogen > > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep > the > > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the > ammonia/nitrite > > so > > > > > you should > > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do > PWC's > > to > > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons > per > > > > > gallon) of > > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring > > it > > > > > down to > > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, > > you'll > > > > > bring the > > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the > > > 0.285% > > > > > down to > > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > > > > number). You will > > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 > of > > > the > > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After > about 5 > > > of > > > > > those, you > > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would > no > > > > > longer be > > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any > > > kinds > > > > of > > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or > a > > > slow > > > > > gulping > > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water > with > > > > salt) > > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > > > > probably what > > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's > level > > > and > > > > > today's > > > > > > PWC) > > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion > > and > > > > > that choking > > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this > afternoon. > > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering > the > > > > salt > > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > > eliminated. > > > > > When > > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > > > especially > > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > > treatment > > > of > > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > > > > reduced. > > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's > just > > a > > > > bit > > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in > the > > > form > > > > > of > > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > > > > treating > > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > > adjusting > > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, > fish > > > will > > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections > worsen > > > and > > > > > will > > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result > of > > > your > > > > > not > > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > > noticed > > > > > your > > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test > kits > > > > (high > > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like > more > > > > > frequent > > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you > don't > > > want > > > > > to > > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > > remainder > > > of > > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and > test > > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - > > > 15ppm > > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB > > and > > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they > > have > > > > > been. > > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes > > > she's > > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking > head). > > I > > > > did > > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was > doing > > > > > this. > > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > > pellets > > > > > from > > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. > What > > > I'm > > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > > > pretty > > > > > much > > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm > > not > > > > > sure > > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days since > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but > seems > > > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but still > > > spent > > > > > most > > > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few times > > when > > > > > Raven > > > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back > > > corner > > > > > for a > > > > > > bit. > > > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > > > continuity- > > > > -- > > > > > -- > > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into > the > > > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said it > > was > > > > ok. > > > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on and > > off > > > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' > > > symptoms > > > > > up > > > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I > > could > > > > > have > > > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had > > > clamped > > > > > fins > > > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only symptom > > I'm > > > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and Rave > > are > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message------------ -- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the > water > > > > > > column, it > > > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their swim > > > > > > bladders, as > > > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces > > though > > > > > > would > > > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although > all > > > > > > being a > > > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather than > > > > > > bacterial. > > > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the > Protozoan > > > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > > > Goldfish, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > > > (roundworms) > > > > > > they > > > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal > tapeworms > > > when > > > > > > they > > > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > > > > infections > > > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and is > > > > > > impossible > > > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish is > > > > > > clearing up > > > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to mix > > > > > > medications > > > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite > > > issues. > > > > > > Since > > > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to > go > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help > with > > > the > > > > > > fungus > > > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite > medication > > > > > > (unless you > > > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have to > > have > > > > > > shipped > > > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus in > > > > > > another 4 > > > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt > (alone) > > > > > > should > > > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate > for > > > > this > > > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due for > > its > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the > water > > > for > > > > > > an > > > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter > to > > > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") > for > > > > > > treatment > > > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as > Prazipro, > > > > > > in > > > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing > > agent) - > > > - > > > > > > the > > > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If you > > > can't > > > > > > find > > > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you > > > can't, > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can buy > > > this > > > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ > $2.99 > > > > > > (treats > > > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and 16 > > oz.@ > > > > > > $32.74 > > > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices being > > > > > > effective as > > > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, I'll > > > > > > mention for > > > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by > > Hikari > > > in > > > > > > a > > > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles > (treats > > > 3200 > > > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats > > > 12,800 > > > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. If > > one > > > > > > can use > > > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the > 16 > > > > ounce > > > > > > pond > > > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is > > similarly > > > > > > priced > > > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, > is > > > all > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > > > necessary. > > > > > > One > > > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > > > medication > > > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole > (Fluke > > > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > > > Prazipro. > > > > > > Both > > > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, > though, > > > and > > > > > > for > > > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but > annoying > > > > > > little > > > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), > Prizipro > > > > will > > > > > > also > > > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to get > to > > > the > > > > > > source > > > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting > Day 4 > > > of > > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting > on > > > the > > > > > > bottom > > > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was > > their > > > > > > choice, > > > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they > > > relaxed > > > > > > too > > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw mentioned > > in a > > > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, > and > > > > > > some is > > > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been > able > > > to > > > > > > see > > > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from the > > > Tetra > > > > > > food > > > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the > other > > > > two - > > > > > > not > > > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven > > still > > > > > > has > > > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal > fin, > > > but > > > > > > most > > > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine > color > > > and > > > > > > shiny, > > > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking > > that's > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house > > thermostat > > > > > > is set > > > > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the plastic > > > tank > > > > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern until > I > > > > > > scraped > > > > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this > possibly > > > > > > related > > > > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. The > > > > > > instructions > > > > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," > > > following > > > > > > a 25% > > > > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something else, > > or > > > > > > put the > > > > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > > > > before we > > > > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal shows > up > > > on > > > > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the > PetSmart > > > > > > sales. > > > > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them > > > healthy > > > > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need to > > be > > > > > > stripped > > > > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of > the > > > > > > slate- > > > > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into > them > > > > from > > > > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't > > know > > > > > > what I'd > > > > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to be > > seen > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > > > > discouraging. > > > > > > > If, by > > > > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang > near > > > the > > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up against > > the > > > > > > glass > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also > > gulp > > > > > > at the > > > > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they > > would > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being > > created > > > > > > by the > > > > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are > being > > > > > > bouyed > > > > > > > up at > > > > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their > > swim > > > > > > > bladders > > > > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether > they > > > are > > > > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as > their > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would indicate a > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal > > issues > > > > > > on > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared up > > any, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without > > actually > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an > owner's > > > > > > written > > > > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's > going > > > on > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've never > > seen > > > > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and > suspect > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > Are > > > > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently > > become > > > > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no > bargain > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to any > > > > > > extent as > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, Petco > > (or > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > PetsSmart -- we'd have to check that further, perhaps > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > archives) holds periodic $1 per gallon sales on all > > tanks > > > > > > up to > > > > > > > 55 > > > > > > > > gallons, several times a year; you just have to watch > > for > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A damaged top-frame may not only allow bowing of the > > > glass, > > > > > > as > > > > > > > again > > > > > > > > Lenny points out, but the added stress (because of > > reduced > > > > > > > support) > > > > > > > > at the joints over time can cause a failure of the > > > > > > bond/seal > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > the front (or back) glass and one of the ends. I have > > not > > > > > > yet > > > > > > > > mentioned that, while you state the tank needs > > resealing - > > > - > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Lenny > > > > > > > > points out that you'll need to strip and re-silicone > all > > > > > > joints, > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > need to know what he's saying is imperative (not just > a > > > > > > choice) > > > > > > > in re- > > > > > > > > conditioning the tank for fish use. Over time, and in > an > > > > > > > environment > > > > > > > > which does not expose these siliconed joints to water, > > any > > > > > > > reptile > > > > > > > > urine that contacts this sealing material is absorbed, > > > only > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > leached out in the presence of water if using the tank > > for > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > without taking this precaution, poisoning them with > > highly > > > > > > > elevated > > > > > > > > ammonia levels which cannot be controlled. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Lenny's reply------ > > > > > > > > (inserted from different thread for continuity) > > > > > > > > The fish are probably just really wiped out right now > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the medical > > > > > > > > treatments.. kind of like what chemotherapy, or a long > > > stay > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the hospital > > > > > > > > would do to a human. Anything you put in their water > has > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > absorbed > > > > > > > > through their skin and gills and then processed and > > > cleaned > > > > > > out > > > > > > > by their > > > > > > > > kidneys so there is a lot of osmoregulatory action > going > > > on > > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > stressful to fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they aren't gasping, rapid gill cover movement, > > gulping > > > > > > at the > > > > > > > surface, > > > > > > > > etc., then it's not O2 issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if it was low O2 levels, they wouldn't go by the > > > filter > > > > > > > return. The > > > > > > > > bubbles you can see are not the bubbles that they > > breath. > > > > > > All > > > > > > > the agitation > > > > > > > > from the filter does is create splashing on the > surface > > so > > > > > > there > > > > > > > is more gas > > > > > > > > exchange at the surface and more surface area from the > > > > > > waves. > > > > > > > The up/down > > > > > > > > hills from the ripples will almost double the surface > > area > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > compared to when it's a flat calm water surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some reptile tanks are not built to the same standards > > > > > > since they > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > have to hold water so they might have thinner glass, > > etc. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > guess if it was > > > > > > > > a former aquarium and you don't mind resealing the > tank > > by > > > > > > > removing all the > > > > > > > > old silicone, it might work but then that isn't as > good > > of > > > > > > a > > > > > > > price. I've > > > > > > > > seen 55G on sale new for $55 - $65. I think it was > Petco > > > > > > that > > > > > > > used to have > > > > > > > > a $1.00 a gallon sale on their tanks a couple of > times a > > > > > > year. > > > > > > > Tell them > > > > > > > > how much work it will be and see if you can get them > > down > > > > > > to > > > > > > > about $25.00. > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's just the cross brace on the top that is > damaged, > > > > > > that > > > > > > > shouldn't > > > > > > > > affect things but you might want to get a strip of > hard > > > > > > plastic > > > > > > > of the same > > > > > > > > length and epoxy it across the top in the same area to > > > make > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > the front > > > > > > > > and back glass does not bow out. I've seen pics where > > > > > > someone > > > > > > > removed that > > > > > > > > cross bar and the tank was bowing out BAD.. to the > point > > > > > > where > > > > > > > the glass had > > > > > > > > to be close to fracturing or bursting. 55G of water is > > > > > > over 400 > > > > > > > pounds of > > > > > > > > weight so the frame needs to be stabile. If you get > it, > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > know. I > > > > > > > > have a few sites with instructions on resealing > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to articles referenced above listed on the > right > > > > > > side > > > > > > > under Archives > > > > > > > > - Year, Month and under Labels) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---My add-on----- > > > > > > > > (inserted for continuity) > > > > > > > > Correction: That should say Starting Day 3 of Jungle > > > > > > Fungus > > > > > > > Clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34855	From: Wendie	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss

No, nothing. Normal water changes to all tanks. Same 6( 4 days old when introduced) fish for 8 months, the balance (kuhlis) several years. Only new thing was the java moss. No food change. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss Had your water parameters changed at all? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Wendie > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 12:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > Plain water as I'd never had a problem before. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:57 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > You say that you rinsed the java moss. Exactly what do you mean by that? Just rinse them in > plain water? Gave them a bath with an alum solution? Potassium permanganate? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > Wendie > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > > I prefer plants and have always had them in my tanks. Recently I > > bought a couple balls of Java Moss for an established tank. I > > received them and they looked great. I rinsed them off and put them > > in the tank. Within 10 days, my three black kuhli loaches lay dying > > on the gravel. These guys were with me for over 5 years without any > > problems. Shortly after that, my entire kuhli loach colony lay dying > > on the gravel and elsewhere. These guys had been with me for about 4 > > years and were doing great. Never sick, never had a problem with > > them. I have more black kuhlis in another tank (same group and doing > > great), but my regular kuhlis are wiped out now. > > > > Where did I go wrong? It looked great. No snails, no smell. Just > > nice looking moss. > > > > I am closing down that tank now. With the electricity so darn high > > around here I might just as well try saving a little bit. I have 4 > > other tanks running. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & > if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34856	From: Wendie	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss

No as it was done on Aquabid with a seller with a good rating. The only problem there is that the ratings are usually given before something happens. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss Did you see the seller remove the plants from their tank and bag them up for you? Could they have given them a dip in some kind of disinfectant (alum, PP, bleach, etc.) and then didn't rinse them fully so you introduced that to your tank? As \\Steve// asked, what were your water parameters before and after? Check your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc... always the first thing that should be done whenever there is a noticeable issue just to verify that these things are not part of the problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss Had your water parameters changed at all? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wendie > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 12:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > Plain water as I'd never had a problem before. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:57 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > You say that you rinsed the java moss. Exactly what do you mean by > that? Just rinse them in plain water? Gave them a bath with an alum solution? Potassium permanganate? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wendie > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > > I prefer plants and have always had them in my tanks. Recently I > > bought a couple balls of Java Moss for an established tank. I > > received them and they looked great. I rinsed them off and put them > > in the tank. Within 10 days, my three black kuhli loaches lay dying > > on the gravel. These guys were with me for over 5 years without any > > problems. Shortly after that, my entire kuhli loach colony lay dying > > on the gravel and elsewhere. These guys had been with me for about 4 > > years and were doing great. Never sick, never had a problem with > > them. I have more black kuhlis in another tank (same group and doing > > great), but my regular kuhlis are wiped out now. > > > > Where did I go wrong? It looked great. No snails, no smell. Just > > nice looking moss. > > > > I am closing down that tank now. With the electricity so darn high > > around here I might just as well try saving a little bit. I have 4 > > other tanks running. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Brita Filters and Pur Filters (was Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

When you say your "baseline tests were zero for ammonia at first then went up the next day"... was that for your tap water baseline? Did you add dechlor to the tap water immediately before testing or strictly rely on your Britta filter? My first thoughts would be that the Brita filter would catch the chloramine but we know carbon doesn't catch ammonia but is supposed to catch chlorine... so I'm not sure how it treats chloramine (which is a combination chemical made of chlorine and ammonia). But then I would think that Brita and Pur would add something to their little tap water filters that would catch the chloramine since I'm sure their customers expect it. Here's what Brita says... http://www.brita.com/us/support/about-impurities/ BritaR water tastes better because BritaR filtration systems reduce chlorine (taste and odor)1. Because BritaR filters remove only small amounts of fluoride over the life of the filter, you don't have to worry about missing out on the benefits of fluoride in your tap water.2 How the BritaR Faucet Filter works An added layer around the filter traps large particulate matter from the water Activated powdered carbon acts like a sponge, sucking up Chlorine (taste and odor and Benzene) A zeolite acts like a magnet attracting Lead Then from the FAQ page... http://www.brita.com/us/support/faq/faucet-faq/ The BritaR Faucet Filter removes microbiological cryptosporidium and giardia. It also reduces lead, TTHM, VOCs, lindane (pesticide), 2,4-D, alachlor, atrazine (herbicide), chlorine (taste and odor) and sediment1. For more information about the impurities that BritaR Faucet Filters reduce, including any health risks they may help avoid confusion. NOTICE that it specifically mentions "Chlorine" but doesn't mention Chloramine... and then it says it only "reduces chlorine", not remove it completely.... things that make you go hmmmmm???? To be "Fair and Balanced", here's what I found on the Pur website... http://www.purwater.com/#/contaminants http://www.purwater.com/manuals/PUR_Filter_Comparison.pdf Well.. unfortunately, you'll have to read the Pur website yourself since the Pur website relies on Flash Player and PDF file to display what their filters do but they also do NOT mention anything about removing or reducing chloramine... only REDUCING chlorine. Unless someone else can find something definitive and in writing from either of these companies, I would strongly suggest that you NOT rely on these faucet filters for removing chlorine or chloramine from your tap water to be used in your fish tanks. You should still use a dechlor product when using these types of filter systems. They might be OK in removing some other nasties that our fish may not like but they do not make the water completely fish ready. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update later tonight. - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my Baseline tests were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. I'll verify that before my post tonight. - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a picture. - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest more than the others. - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap filter. It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the Prime. For some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the filter, but I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water before I do anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the fish don't need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at least 3 days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I need to do a PWC before then? More later. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now beginning to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results remaining at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner in which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your water supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria should be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect to keep up. We'll work on it though. Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not especially expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development of this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of Lucille, showing these streaks? Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat for Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe to use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in conjuction with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild medication, which also should be a welcomed bit of info. As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition to Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) need for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine in your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you do not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that your Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or may be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you have chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water companies are converting to this, not only should you have been using at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you should not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue to use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is in your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly under .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm > - 5G PWC @ 1PM > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have an > airstone) > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the Prime and also > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep telling myself > to get it and I keep forgetting. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:51 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You can > grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly obvious. > Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when > seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only be > from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice to > use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen > depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. > > With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover > medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed > stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with the > PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 gallon > tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. Always > nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. Any > improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that > eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will > address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it > becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up > bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that > route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep us > posted. Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the > Amquel+, > > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection > between the > > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so > focused > > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a > couple of > > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She > has got to > > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I > think she's > > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about > the same > > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all > three and > > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were > in a 10G > > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > > circulation as would an airstone. > > > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or > > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your > > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration > > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're > > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen > > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how > > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even > > if imperceptibly. > > > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've > > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) > > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths > when > > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how > > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their > > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new > > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when > > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of > > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit > > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned > > having > > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower > the > > water > > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last > > resort, > > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond > and > > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best used > > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert > with > > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ > > alone > > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been > reports > > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the > oxygen > > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine > > added > > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than > one > > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an > > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to > ensure > > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a > link > > > to the > > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the > > > other files > > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > > writing info > > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day > doesn't > > > do the > > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should > > > have arrived > > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > > > almost twice > > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big > > > tank as > > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one > less > > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if > > the > > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the > token > > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 > Gallons > > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, > like > > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in > your > > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel > Sheet > > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen > > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can > avoid > > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change > > > (and > > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there > > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of > your > > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is > > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise > > get > > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I > > had > > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I > hate > > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > > address > > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product > > being > > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime > > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > > ammonium > > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This > should > > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to > > avoid > > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing > > out > > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce > > your > > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, your > > > cycle > > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same > time > > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 > tsp/G > > > of > > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have > > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know > you've > > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the > > salt > > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > > trouble > > > > with > > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I guess > if > > > > they both > > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on > the > > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with the > > salt > > > > level and > > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that gets > > the > > > > ammonia > > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of reducing > > it) > > > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing the > > > > PWC. The > > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to lower > it > > > > yesterday > > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer > sitting > > > on > > > > the > > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille is > > the > > > > stronger > > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get > > worse, > > > > I'll > > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and nitrite > > > > lower. Will > > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > > > this?); > > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > > hadn't > > > > been zero, > > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity--------- -- > -- > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on > > doing > > > a > > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did > want > > to > > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday night, > > > which > > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any of > > your > > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, around > > > noon > > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you > were > > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted > accordingly > > > (I > > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote > > you a > > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > > > seconds > > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm here > > was > > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to send > > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't > blame > > my > > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as that's > > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to me!), > > but > > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never > hurts > > > to > > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might > correct > > > any > > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause of > > the > > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the problem > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, which > > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good sign). > > On > > > > the > > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt > content > > > was > > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around Noon > > that > > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you > intended > > > on > > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything on > > any > > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's > that > > > > > day). > > > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit confusing > > when > > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > > REPLACED 1 > > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you > decided > > > not > > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the salt > a > > 2 > > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made > another > > > PWC > > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 > PM > > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any > less > > > > than > > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no > power > > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, > reducing > > > the > > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken out > > any > > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use > the > > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is > extremely > > > > mild > > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I hope > > all > > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the post > > of > > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you > were > > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially as > > it > > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see some > > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus Clear > if > > > it > > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which > > might > > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I > said > > > the > > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a > day > > > of > > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but the > > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no other > > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at least > > > > nothing > > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > > parasite > > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't > pay > > to > > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still use > > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You > will > > > have > > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > > > nitrite > > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have these > > > levels > > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become to > > your > > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia > (right, > > > you > > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in the > > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > > levels > > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > > PetSmart > > > > and > > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where > to > > > find > > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, > but > > it > > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one > nearby, > > > but > > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. I > > was > > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores > carry > > > > that > > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the last > > two > > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB > actually > > > came > > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there > and > > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I > thought > > > that > > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with > salt. > > > I > > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before > giving > > > the > > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do the > > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the osmotic > > > > stress > > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a foothold > > > again > > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO > > LOWER > > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest > anything > > > > else > > > > > without > > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides the > > > > > potential for > > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > > constipation... > > > > > and it's also > > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" once > a > > > week > > > > > or so just > > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > > > system > > > > > disorders.. > > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green > for > > a > > > > few > > > > > days which > > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do the > > > > Maracyn > > > > > 2? And > > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add > salt > > > to > > > > > this last > > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each > PWC? > > > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the > > rest > > > of > > > > > the meds. > > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed > with > > > too > > > > > much meds. > > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a > day > > of > > > > > just fresh > > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance to > > > rest > > > > > between > > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good > clean > > > > fresh > > > > > air for > > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out any > > meds > > > > > that are > > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so > only > > > the > > > > > PWC's will > > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is > now > > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > > under .25ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering > > Tetra > > > > > flakes, > > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. Maybe > > the > > > > > carbs will > > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a > chance > > to > > > > > work. If it > > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a > LFS > > > that > > > > > might help > > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very good. > > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > > Adding > > > > > anything to > > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably finish > > CB > > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before > coming > > > here > > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer > when > > > the > > > > > previous > > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. > Since > > > > these > > > > > three > > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate some > of > > > the > > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she > may > > > be > > > > a > > > > > bit > > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the > parasites, > > > > > remains to be > > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final check > on > > > the > > > > > fish before > > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, looking > at > > > the > > > > > Christmas > > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to > > even > > > > > care about > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > > retention > > > > > due to > > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > > stunting > > > so > > > > > it wasn't > > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger tank > > (or > > > > > same size > > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > > water), > > > > she > > > > > is growing > > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other two. > > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers wasn't > > > there > > > > > and I don't > > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the > three > > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an approximate > > age) > > > > > What size > > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they > > have > > > > > been in from > > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > > and .50ppm; > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. > since > > > the > > > > > last PWC. > > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > > fungus > > > at > > > > > bay until I > > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the spitting/choking > > > thing > > > > > occasionally > > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when > they > > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven and > > CB. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and > > will > > > go > > > > > down to > > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs > > Salt > > > > > Levels" for > > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, > > since > > > > > there isn't > > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%> > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, but > > > after > > > > > exertion > > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a > shaking > > > of > > > > > the head, > > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish > is > > > > > eating and > > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only > she's > > > not > > > > > eating at > > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > > nitrogen > > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep > the > > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > > nitrifying > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the > ammonia/nitrite > > so > > > > > you should > > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do > PWC's > > to > > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons > per > > > > > gallon) of > > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would bring > > it > > > > > down to > > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, > > you'll > > > > > bring the > > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring the > > > 0.285% > > > > > down to > > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the new > > > > > number). You will > > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 > of > > > the > > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After > about 5 > > > of > > > > > those, you > > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which would > no > > > > > longer be > > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing any > > > kinds > > > > of > > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? Or > a > > > slow > > > > > gulping > > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on > > > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water > with > > > > salt) > > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and that's > > > > > probably what > > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's > level > > > and > > > > > today's > > > > > > PWC) > > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme exhaustion > > and > > > > > that choking > > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this > afternoon. > > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering > the > > > > salt > > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > > eliminated. > > > > > When > > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > > > especially > > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > > treatment > > > of > > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can be > > > > > reduced. > > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's > just > > a > > > > bit > > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in > the > > > form > > > > > of > > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to start > > > > > treating > > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > > adjusting > > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, > fish > > > will > > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections > worsen > > > and > > > > > will > > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result > of > > > your > > > > > not > > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > > noticed > > > > > your > > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test > kits > > > > (high > > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like > more > > > > > frequent > > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you > don't > > > want > > > > > to > > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > > remainder > > > of > > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and > test > > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 - > > > 15ppm > > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. CB > > and > > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than they > > have > > > > > been. > > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts likes > > > she's > > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking > head). > > I > > > > did > > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was > doing > > > > > this. > > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > > pellets > > > > > from > > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. > What > > > I'm > > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > > > pretty > > > > > much > > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and I'm > > not > > > > > sure > > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34858	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss

You should contact the seller and ask them if they used any kind of disinfectant or possibly some kind of treatment (copper based) to kill off snails in their tank and possibly that copper was absorbed by the plants and then leached out in your tank.. or maybe even the Kuhli's munched on the Java Moss. My understanding is that Kuhli's are more sensitive to copper than many other fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 4:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Java Moss No as it was done on Aquabid with a seller with a good rating. The only problem there is that the ratings are usually given before something happens. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss Did you see the seller remove the plants from their tank and bag them up for you? Could they have given them a dip in some kind of disinfectant (alum, PP, bleach, etc.) and then didn't rinse them fully so you introduced that to your tank? As \\Steve// asked, what were your water parameters before and after? Check your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc... always the first thing that should be done whenever there is a noticeable issue just to verify that these things are not part of the problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss Had your water parameters changed at all? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wendie > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 12:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > Plain water as I'd never had a problem before. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:57 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > You say that you rinsed the java moss. Exactly what do you mean by > that? Just rinse them in plain water? Gave them a bath with an alum solution? Potassium permanganate? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wendie > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > > I prefer plants and have always had them in my tanks. Recently I > > bought a couple balls of Java Moss for an established tank. I > > received them and they looked great. I rinsed them off and put them > > in the tank. Within 10 days, my three black kuhli loaches lay dying > > on the gravel. These guys were with me for over 5 years without any > > problems. Shortly after that, my entire kuhli loach colony lay dying > > on the gravel and elsewhere. These guys had been with me for about 4 > > years and were doing great. Never sick, never had a problem with > > them. I have more black kuhlis in another tank (same group and doing > > great), but my regular kuhlis are wiped out now. > > > > Where did I go wrong? It looked great. No snails, no smell. Just > > nice looking moss. > > > > I am closing down that tank now. With the electricity so darn high > > around here I might just as well try saving a little bit. I have 4 > > other tanks running. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34859	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water supply, as the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. CB may be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two fish, which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish eating is a good sign, and encouraging to see. If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, dechlor will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of it. Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of chloramine and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter may be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what you have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing the chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for removing chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be able to treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that would otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water containing chlorine. The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, if it turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your having chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from any other source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done right now. If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be aware that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter can create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as your Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it without filtering it out. A good change to fresh water before introducing another medication is always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK (?) I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and I'm assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you should ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You should NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 gallon PWC on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or dechlor, if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, not 20 gallons. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update later > tonight. > > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my Baseline tests > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. I'll verify > that before my post tonight. > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a picture. > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest more than > the others. > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap filter. > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the Prime. For > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the filter, but > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water before I do > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the fish don't > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at least 3 > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I need to do > a PWC before then? > > More later. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now beginning > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results remaining > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner in > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your water > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria should > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect to > keep up. We'll work on it though. > > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not especially > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development of > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of > Lucille, showing these streaks? > > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat for > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe to > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in conjuction > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild medication, > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. > > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition to > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) need > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine in > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you do > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that your > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or may > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you have > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been using > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you should > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue to > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is in > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) > > > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly > under .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have an > > airstone) > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged > > > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the Prime > and also > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep > telling myself > > to get it and I keep forgetting. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:51 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You can > > grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly obvious. > > Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when > > seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only be > > from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice > to > > use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen > > depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. > > > > With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover > > medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed > > stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with > the > > PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 gallon > > tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. > Always > > nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. Any > > improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that > > eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will > > address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it > > becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up > > bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that > > route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep us > > posted. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the > > Amquel+, > > > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection > > between the > > > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so > > focused > > > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a > > couple of > > > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She > > has got to > > > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I > > think she's > > > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about > > the same > > > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all > > three and > > > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were > > in a 10G > > > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > > > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > > > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > > > circulation as would an airstone. > > > > > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ > or > > > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with > your > > > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > > > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the > aeration > > > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > > > > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > > > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that > they're > > > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > > > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC > regimen > > > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand > how > > > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > > > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- > even > > > if imperceptibly. > > > > > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > > > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > > > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > > > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as > I've > > > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > > > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > > > > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no > +) > > > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > > > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths > > when > > > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly > how > > > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease > their > > > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this > new > > > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration > when > > > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > > > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result > of > > > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller > benefit > > > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first > mentioned > > > having > > > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower > > the > > > water > > > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last > > > resort, > > > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > > > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond > > and > > > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best > used > > > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert > > with > > > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ > > > alone > > > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been > > reports > > > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the > > oxygen > > > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine > > > added > > > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than > > one > > > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using > an > > > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to > > ensure > > > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a > > link > > > > to the > > > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of > the > > > > other files > > > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > > > writing info > > > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day > > doesn't > > > > do the > > > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which > should > > > > have arrived > > > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > > > > almost twice > > > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that > big > > > > tank as > > > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one > > less > > > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more > if > > > the > > > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the > > token > > > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 > > Gallons > > > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, > > like > > > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in > > your > > > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel > > Sheet > > > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial > Nitrogen > > > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can > > avoid > > > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you > change > > > > (and > > > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But > there > > > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of > > your > > > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This > is > > > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can > otherwise > > > get > > > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as > I > > > had > > > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I > > hate > > > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > > > address > > > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product > > > being > > > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using > Prime > > > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > > > ammonium > > > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This > > should > > > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to > > > avoid > > > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in > changing > > > out > > > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further > reduce > > > your > > > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, > your > > > > cycle > > > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same > > time > > > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 > > tsp/G > > > > of > > > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would > have > > > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know > > you've > > > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the > > > salt > > > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > > > trouble > > > > > with > > > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I > guess > > if > > > > > they both > > > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on > > the > > > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with > the > > > salt > > > > > level and > > > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that > gets > > > the > > > > > ammonia > > > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of > reducing > > > it) > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing > the > > > > > PWC. The > > > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to > lower > > it > > > > > yesterday > > > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer > > sitting > > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille > is > > > the > > > > > stronger > > > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get > > > worse, > > > > > I'll > > > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and > nitrite > > > > > lower. Will > > > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > > > > this?); > > > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > > > hadn't > > > > > been zero, > > > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity------- -- > -- > > -- > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q > FOR > > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on > > > doing > > > > a > > > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did > > want > > > to > > > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday > night, > > > > which > > > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any > of > > > your > > > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, > around > > > > noon > > > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you > > were > > > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted > > accordingly > > > > (I > > > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote > > > you a > > > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > > > > seconds > > > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm > here > > > was > > > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to > send > > > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't > > blame > > > my > > > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as > that's > > > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to > me!), > > > but > > > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never > > hurts > > > > to > > > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might > > correct > > > > any > > > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause > of > > > the > > > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the > problem > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, > which > > > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good > sign). > > > On > > > > > the > > > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt > > content > > > > was > > > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around > Noon > > > that > > > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you > > intended > > > > on > > > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything > on > > > any > > > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's > > that > > > > > > day). > > > > > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit > confusing > > > when > > > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > > > REPLACED 1 > > > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you > > decided > > > > not > > > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the > salt > > a > > > 2 > > > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made > > another > > > > PWC > > > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 > > PM > > > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any > > less > > > > > than > > > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no > > power > > > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, > > reducing > > > > the > > > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken > out > > > any > > > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use > > the > > > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is > > extremely > > > > > mild > > > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I > hope > > > all > > > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the > post > > > of > > > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you > > were > > > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially > as > > > it > > > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see > some > > > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus > Clear > > if > > > > it > > > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which > > > might > > > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I > > said > > > > the > > > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a > > day > > > > of > > > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but > the > > > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no > other > > > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at > least > > > > > nothing > > > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > > > parasite > > > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't > > pay > > > to > > > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still > use > > > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You > > will > > > > have > > > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > > > > nitrite > > > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have > these > > > > levels > > > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become > to > > > your > > > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia > > (right, > > > > you > > > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in > the > > > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > > > levels > > > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > > > PetSmart > > > > > and > > > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where > > to > > > > find > > > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, > > but > > > it > > > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one > > nearby, > > > > but > > > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. > I > > > was > > > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores > > carry > > > > > that > > > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the > last > > > two > > > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB > > actually > > > > came > > > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there > > and > > > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I > > thought > > > > that > > > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with > > salt. > > > > I > > > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before > > giving > > > > the > > > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do > the > > > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the > osmotic > > > > > stress > > > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a > foothold > > > > again > > > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO > > > LOWER > > > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest > > anything > > > > > else > > > > > > without > > > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides > the > > > > > > potential for > > > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > > > constipation... > > > > > > and it's also > > > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" > once > > a > > > > week > > > > > > or so just > > > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > > > > system > > > > > > disorders.. > > > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green > > for > > > a > > > > > few > > > > > > days which > > > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do > the > > > > > Maracyn > > > > > > 2? And > > > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add > > salt > > > > to > > > > > > this last > > > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each > > PWC? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the > > > rest > > > > of > > > > > > the meds. > > > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed > > with > > > > too > > > > > > much meds. > > > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a > > day > > > of > > > > > > just fresh > > > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance > to > > > > rest > > > > > > between > > > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good > > clean > > > > > fresh > > > > > > air for > > > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out > any > > > meds > > > > > > that are > > > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so > > only > > > > the > > > > > > PWC's will > > > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is > > now > > > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > > > under .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering > > > Tetra > > > > > > flakes, > > > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. > Maybe > > > the > > > > > > carbs will > > > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a > > chance > > > to > > > > > > work. If it > > > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a > > LFS > > > > that > > > > > > might help > > > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very > good. > > > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > > > Adding > > > > > > anything to > > > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably > finish > > > CB > > > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before > > coming > > > > here > > > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer > > when > > > > the > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. > > Since > > > > > these > > > > > > three > > > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate > some > > of > > > > the > > > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she > > may > > > > be > > > > > a > > > > > > bit > > > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the > > parasites, > > > > > > remains to be > > > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final > check > > on > > > > the > > > > > > fish before > > > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, > looking > > at > > > > the > > > > > > Christmas > > > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to > > > even > > > > > > care about > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > > > retention > > > > > > due to > > > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > > > stunting > > > > so > > > > > > it wasn't > > > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger > tank > > > (or > > > > > > same size > > > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > > > water), > > > > > she > > > > > > is growing > > > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other > two. > > > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers > wasn't > > > > there > > > > > > and I don't > > > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the > > three > > > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an > approximate > > > age) > > > > > > What size > > > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they > > > have > > > > > > been in from > > > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > > > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > > > and .50ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. > > since > > > > the > > > > > > last PWC. > > > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > > > fungus > > > > at > > > > > > bay until I > > > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the > spitting/choking > > > > thing > > > > > > occasionally > > > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when > > they > > > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven > and > > > CB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and > > > will > > > > go > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs > > > Salt > > > > > > Levels" for > > > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, > > > since > > > > > > there isn't > > > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, > but > > > > after > > > > > > exertion > > > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a > > shaking > > > > of > > > > > > the head, > > > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish > > is > > > > > > eating and > > > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only > > she's > > > > not > > > > > > eating at > > > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > > > nitrogen > > > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep > > the > > > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the > > ammonia/nitrite > > > so > > > > > > you should > > > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do > > PWC's > > > to > > > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons > > per > > > > > > gallon) of > > > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would > bring > > > it > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, > > > you'll > > > > > > bring the > > > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring > the > > > > 0.285% > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the > new > > > > > > number). You will > > > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 > > of > > > > the > > > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After > > about 5 > > > > of > > > > > > those, you > > > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which > would > > no > > > > > > longer be > > > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing > any > > > > kinds > > > > > of > > > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? > Or > > a > > > > slow > > > > > > gulping > > > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water > > with > > > > > salt) > > > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and > that's > > > > > > probably what > > > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's > > level > > > > and > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > PWC) > > > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme > exhaustion > > > and > > > > > > that choking > > > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this > > afternoon. > > > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering > > the > > > > > salt > > > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > > > eliminated. > > > > > > When > > > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > > > > especially > > > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > > > treatment > > > > of > > > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can > be > > > > > > reduced. > > > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's > > just > > > a > > > > > bit > > > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in > > the > > > > form > > > > > > of > > > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to > start > > > > > > treating > > > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > > > adjusting > > > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, > > fish > > > > will > > > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections > > worsen > > > > and > > > > > > will > > > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result > > of > > > > your > > > > > > not > > > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > > > noticed > > > > > > your > > > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test > > kits > > > > > (high > > > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like > > more > > > > > > frequent > > > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you > > don't > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > > > remainder > > > > of > > > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and > > test > > > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > 10 - > > > > 15ppm > > > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. > CB > > > and > > > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than > they > > > have > > > > > > been. > > > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts > likes > > > > she's > > > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking > > head). > > > I > > > > > did > > > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was > > doing > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > > > pellets > > > > > > from > > > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. > > What > > > > I'm > > > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > > > > pretty > > > > > > much > > > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and > I'm > > > not > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days > since > > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but > > seems > > > > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but > still > > > > spent > > > > > > most > > > > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few > times > > > when > > > > > > Raven > > > > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back > > > > corner > > > > > > for a > > > > > > > bit. > > > > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > > > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > > > > continuity- > > > > > -- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into > > the > > > > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said > it > > > was > > > > > ok. > > > > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on > and > > > off > > > > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' > > > > symptoms > > > > > > up > > > > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I > > > could > > > > > > have > > > > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had > > > > clamped > > > > > > fins > > > > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only > symptom > > > I'm > > > > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and > Rave > > > are > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message---------- -- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the > > water > > > > > > > column, it > > > > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their > swim > > > > > > > bladders, as > > > > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces > > > though > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal > infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although > > all > > > > > > > being a > > > > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather > than > > > > > > > bacterial. > > > > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the > > Protozoan > > > > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > > > > Goldfish, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > > > > (roundworms) > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal > > tapeworms > > > > when > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > > > > > infections > > > > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and > is > > > > > > > impossible > > > > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish > is > > > > > > > clearing up > > > > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to > mix > > > > > > > medications > > > > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite > > > > issues. > > > > > > > Since > > > > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to > > go > > > > with > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > fungus > > > > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite > > medication > > > > > > > (unless you > > > > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have > to > > > have > > > > > > > shipped > > > > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus > in > > > > > > > another 4 > > > > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt > > (alone) > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate > > for > > > > > this > > > > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due > for > > > its > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the > > water > > > > for > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter > > to > > > > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") > > for > > > > > > > treatment > > > > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as > > Prazipro, > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing > > > agent) - > > > > - > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If > you > > > > can't > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you > > > > can't, > > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can > buy > > > > this > > > > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ > > $2.99 > > > > > > > (treats > > > > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and > 16 > > > oz.@ > > > > > > > $32.74 > > > > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices > being > > > > > > > effective as > > > > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, > I'll > > > > > > > mention for > > > > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by > > > Hikari > > > > in > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles > > (treats > > > > 3200 > > > > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats > > > > 12,800 > > > > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. > If > > > one > > > > > > > can use > > > > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the > > 16 > > > > > ounce > > > > > > > pond > > > > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is > > > similarly > > > > > > > priced > > > > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, > > is > > > > all > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > > > > necessary. > > > > > > > One > > > > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 > gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > > > > medication > > > > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole > > (Fluke > > > > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > > > > Prazipro. > > > > > > > Both > > > > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, > > though, > > > > and > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but > > annoying > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), > > Prizipro > > > > > will > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to > get > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting > > Day 4 > > > > of > > > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > bottom > > > > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was > > > their > > > > > > > choice, > > > > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they > > > > relaxed > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw > mentioned > > > in a > > > > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, > > and > > > > > > > some is > > > > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been > > able > > > > to > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from > the > > > > Tetra > > > > > > > food > > > > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the > > other > > > > > two - > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven > > > still > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal > > fin, > > > > but > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine > > color > > > > and > > > > > > > shiny, > > > > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking > > > that's > > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house > > > thermostat > > > > > > > is set > > > > > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the > plastic > > > > tank > > > > > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern > until > > I > > > > > > > scraped > > > > > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this > > possibly > > > > > > > related > > > > > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. > The > > > > > > > instructions > > > > > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," > > > > following > > > > > > > a 25% > > > > > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something > else, > > > or > > > > > > > put the > > > > > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > > > > > before we > > > > > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal > shows > > up > > > > on > > > > > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the > > PetSmart > > > > > > > sales. > > > > > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them > > > > healthy > > > > > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need > to > > > be > > > > > > > stripped > > > > > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of > > the > > > > > > > slate- > > > > > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into > > them > > > > > from > > > > > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't > > > know > > > > > > > what I'd > > > > > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to > be > > > seen > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > > > > > discouraging. > > > > > > > > If, by > > > > > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang > > near > > > > the > > > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up > against > > > the > > > > > > > glass > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also > > > gulp > > > > > > > at the > > > > > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they > > > would > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being > > > created > > > > > > > by the > > > > > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are > > being > > > > > > > bouyed > > > > > > > > up at > > > > > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their > > > swim > > > > > > > > bladders > > > > > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether > > they > > > > are > > > > > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as > > their > > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would > indicate a > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal > > > issues > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared > up > > > any, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without > > > actually > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an > > owner's > > > > > > > written > > > > > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's > > going > > > > on > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've > never > > > seen > > > > > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and > > suspect > > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > Are > > > > > > > > > there any other external issues that have recently > > > become > > > > > > > > apparent? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Craigslist 55 gallon aquarium, that's no > > bargain > > > if > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > to reseal it -- and if the top frame is damaged to > any > > > > > > > extent as > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > compromise the tank's integrity. As Lenny says, > Petco > > > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34860	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Brita Filters and Pur Filters (was Re: Newbie with a fungus prob

Hmmmmm, indeed! I guess it's been a while since I read the insert to the Brita filters. I'd have been using dechlor if I had known it only reduces chlorine. The Baseline tests were done on water that had already passed through the Brita filter. I'm using the Prime, now, and will stick with that if I hear what I expect to when I talk to the water company. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Cc: <goldlenny.8941@...> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Brita Filters and Pur Filters (was Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?) When you say your "baseline tests were zero for ammonia at first then went up the next day"... was that for your tap water baseline? Did you add dechlor to the tap water immediately before testing or strictly rely on your Britta filter? My first thoughts would be that the Brita filter would catch the chloramine but we know carbon doesn't catch ammonia but is supposed to catch chlorine... so I'm not sure how it treats chloramine (which is a combination chemical made of chlorine and ammonia). But then I would think that Brita and Pur would add something to their little tap water filters that would catch the chloramine since I'm sure their customers expect it. Here's what Brita says... http://www.brita.com/us/support/about-impurities/ BritaR water tastes better because BritaR filtration systems reduce chlorine (taste and odor)1. Because BritaR filters remove only small amounts of fluoride over the life of the filter, you don't have to worry about missing out on the benefits of fluoride in your tap water.2 How the BritaR Faucet Filter works An added layer around the filter traps large particulate matter from the water Activated powdered carbon acts like a sponge, sucking up Chlorine (taste and odor and Benzene) A zeolite acts like a magnet attracting Lead Then from the FAQ page... http://www.brita.com/us/support/faq/faucet-faq/ The BritaR Faucet Filter removes microbiological cryptosporidium and giardia. It also reduces lead, TTHM, VOCs, lindane (pesticide), 2,4-D, alachlor, atrazine (herbicide), chlorine (taste and odor) and sediment1. For more information about the impurities that BritaR Faucet Filters reduce, including any health risks they may help avoid confusion. NOTICE that it specifically mentions "Chlorine" but doesn't mention Chloramine... and then it says it only "reduces chlorine", not remove it completely.... things that make you go hmmmmm???? To be "Fair and Balanced", here's what I found on the Pur website... http://www.purwater.com/#/contaminants http://www.purwater.com/manuals/PUR_Filter_Comparison.pdf Well.. unfortunately, you'll have to read the Pur website yourself since the Pur website relies on Flash Player and PDF file to display what their filters do but they also do NOT mention anything about removing or reducing chloramine... only REDUCING chlorine. Unless someone else can find something definitive and in writing from either of these companies, I would strongly suggest that you NOT rely on these faucet filters for removing chlorine or chloramine from your tap water to be used in your fish tanks. You should still use a dechlor product when using these types of filter systems. They might be OK in removing some other nasties that our fish may not like but they do not make the water completely fish ready. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update later tonight. - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my Baseline tests were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. I'll verify that before my post tonight. - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a picture. - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest more than the others. - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap filter. It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the Prime. For some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the filter, but I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water before I do anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the fish don't need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at least 3 days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I need to do a PWC before then? More later. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now beginning to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results remaining at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner in which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your water supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria should be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect to keep up. We'll work on it though. Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not especially expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development of this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of Lucille, showing these streaks? Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat for Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe to use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in conjuction with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild medication, which also should be a welcomed bit of info. As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition to Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) need for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine in your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you do not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that your Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or may be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you have chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water companies are converting to this, not only should you have been using at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you should not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue to use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is in your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly under .25ppm; > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm > - 5G PWC @ 1PM > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have an > airstone) > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the Prime and also > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep telling myself > to get it and I keep forgetting. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34861	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

- Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - The question about treating the replacement water was for PraziPro if I need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water supply, as the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. CB may be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two fish, which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish eating is a good sign, and encouraging to see. If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, dechlor will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of it. Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of chloramine and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter may be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what you have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing the chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for removing chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be able to treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that would otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water containing chlorine. The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, if it turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your having chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from any other source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done right now. If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be aware that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter can create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as your Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it without filtering it out. A good change to fresh water before introducing another medication is always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK (?) I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and I'm assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you should ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You should NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 gallon PWC on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or dechlor, if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, not 20 gallons. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update later > tonight. > > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my Baseline tests > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. I'll verify > that before my post tonight. > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a picture. > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest more than > the others. > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap filter. > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the Prime. For > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the filter, but > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water before I do > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the fish don't > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at least 3 > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I need to do > a PWC before then? > > More later. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now beginning > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results remaining > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner in > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your water > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria should > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect to > keep up. We'll work on it though. > > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not especially > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development of > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of > Lucille, showing these streaks? > > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat for > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe to > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in conjuction > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild medication, > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. > > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition to > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) need > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine in > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you do > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that your > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or may > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you have > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been using > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you should > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue to > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is in > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) > > > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly > under .25ppm; > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have an > > airstone) > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged > > > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the Prime > and also > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep > telling myself > > to get it and I keep forgetting. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:51 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You can > > grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly obvious. > > Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when > > seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only be > > from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice > to > > use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen > > depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. > > > > With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover > > medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed > > stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with > the > > PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 gallon > > tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. > Always > > nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. Any > > improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that > > eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will > > address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it > > becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up > > bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that > > route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep us > > posted. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the > > Amquel+, > > > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection > > between the > > > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so > > focused > > > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a > > couple of > > > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She > > has got to > > > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I > > think she's > > > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about > > the same > > > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all > > three and > > > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were > > in a 10G > > > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > > > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and > > > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > > > circulation as would an airstone. > > > > > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ > or > > > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with > your > > > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you > > > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the > aeration > > > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow. > > > > > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > > > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that > they're > > > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since > > > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC > regimen > > > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand > how > > > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > > > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- > even > > > if imperceptibly. > > > > > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > > > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > > > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > > > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as > I've > > > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > > > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > > > > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no > +) > > > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > > > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths > > when > > > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly > how > > > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease > their > > > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this > new > > > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration > when > > > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be > > > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result > of > > > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller > benefit > > > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first > mentioned > > > having > > > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower > > the > > > water > > > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last > > > resort, > > > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a > > > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond > > and > > > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best > used > > > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert > > with > > > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ > > > alone > > > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been > > reports > > > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the > > oxygen > > > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine > > > added > > > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than > > one > > > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using > an > > > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to > > ensure > > > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a > > link > > > > to the > > > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of > the > > > > other files > > > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > > > writing info > > > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day > > doesn't > > > > do the > > > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which > should > > > > have arrived > > > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's > > > > almost twice > > > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that > big > > > > tank as > > > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one > > less > > > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic > > > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more > if > > > the > > > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the > > token > > > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 > > Gallons > > > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, > > like > > > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in > > your > > > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel > > Sheet > > > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial > Nitrogen > > > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can > > avoid > > > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you > change > > > > (and > > > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying > > > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But > there > > > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of > > your > > > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This > is > > > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can > otherwise > > > get > > > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as > I > > > had > > > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I > > hate > > > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > > > address > > > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product > > > being > > > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using > Prime > > > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > > > ammonium > > > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This > > should > > > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to > > > avoid > > > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in > changing > > > out > > > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further > reduce > > > your > > > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, > your > > > > cycle > > > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same > > time > > > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 > > tsp/G > > > > of > > > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would > have > > > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know > > you've > > > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the > > > salt > > > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > > > trouble > > > > > with > > > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I > guess > > if > > > > > they both > > > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on > > the > > > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with > the > > > salt > > > > > level and > > > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that > gets > > > the > > > > > ammonia > > > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of > reducing > > > it) > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing > the > > > > > PWC. The > > > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to > lower > > it > > > > > yesterday > > > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer > > sitting > > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille > is > > > the > > > > > stronger > > > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get > > > worse, > > > > > I'll > > > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and > nitrite > > > > > lower. Will > > > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower > > > > this?); > > > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > > > hadn't > > > > > been zero, > > > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity------- -- > -- > > -- > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q > FOR > > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on > > > doing > > > > a > > > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did > > want > > > to > > > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday > night, > > > > which > > > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any > of > > > your > > > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, > around > > > > noon > > > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you > > were > > > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted > > accordingly > > > > (I > > > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote > > > you a > > > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2 > > > > seconds > > > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm > here > > > was > > > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to > send > > > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't > > blame > > > my > > > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as > that's > > > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to > me!), > > > but > > > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never > > hurts > > > > to > > > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might > > correct > > > > any > > > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause > of > > > the > > > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the > problem > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, > which > > > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good > sign). > > > On > > > > > the > > > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt > > content > > > > was > > > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around > Noon > > > that > > > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you > > intended > > > > on > > > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything > on > > > any > > > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's > > that > > > > > > day). > > > > > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit > confusing > > > when > > > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > > > REPLACED 1 > > > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08 > > > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you > > decided > > > > not > > > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the > salt > > a > > > 2 > > > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made > > another > > > > PWC > > > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00 > > PM > > > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any > > less > > > > > than > > > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no > > power > > > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, > > reducing > > > > the > > > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken > out > > > any > > > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use > > the > > > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is > > extremely > > > > > mild > > > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I > hope > > > all > > > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the > post > > > of > > > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you > > were > > > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially > as > > > it > > > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see > some > > > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus > Clear > > if > > > > it > > > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which > > > might > > > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I > > said > > > > the > > > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a > > day > > > > of > > > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but > the > > > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the > > > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no > other > > > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at > least > > > > > nothing > > > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > > > parasite > > > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't > > pay > > > to > > > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still > use > > > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You > > will > > > > have > > > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and > > > > nitrite > > > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have > these > > > > levels > > > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become > to > > > your > > > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia > > (right, > > > > you > > > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in > the > > > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > > > levels > > > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > > > PetSmart > > > > > and > > > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where > > to > > > > find > > > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away, > > but > > > it > > > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one > > nearby, > > > > but > > > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. > I > > > was > > > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores > > carry > > > > > that > > > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the > last > > > two > > > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB > > actually > > > > came > > > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there > > and > > > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I > > thought > > > > that > > > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with > > salt. > > > > I > > > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before > > giving > > > > the > > > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do > the > > > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the > osmotic > > > > > stress > > > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a > foothold > > > > again > > > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO > > > LOWER > > > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest > > anything > > > > > else > > > > > > without > > > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides > the > > > > > > potential for > > > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > > > constipation... > > > > > > and it's also > > > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" > once > > a > > > > week > > > > > > or so just > > > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive > > > > system > > > > > > disorders.. > > > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green > > for > > > a > > > > > few > > > > > > days which > > > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do > the > > > > > Maracyn > > > > > > 2? And > > > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add > > salt > > > > to > > > > > > this last > > > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each > > PWC? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the > > > rest > > > > of > > > > > > the meds. > > > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed > > with > > > > too > > > > > > much meds. > > > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a > > day > > > of > > > > > > just fresh > > > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance > to > > > > rest > > > > > > between > > > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good > > clean > > > > > fresh > > > > > > air for > > > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out > any > > > meds > > > > > > that are > > > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so > > only > > > > the > > > > > > PWC's will > > > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is > > now > > > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > > > under .25ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering > > > Tetra > > > > > > flakes, > > > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. > Maybe > > > the > > > > > > carbs will > > > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a > > chance > > > to > > > > > > work. If it > > > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a > > LFS > > > > that > > > > > > might help > > > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very > good. > > > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > > > Adding > > > > > > anything to > > > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably > finish > > > CB > > > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before > > coming > > > > here > > > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer > > when > > > > the > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. > > Since > > > > > these > > > > > > three > > > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate > some > > of > > > > the > > > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she > > may > > > > be > > > > > a > > > > > > bit > > > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the > > parasites, > > > > > > remains to be > > > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final > check > > on > > > > the > > > > > > fish before > > > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, > looking > > at > > > > the > > > > > > Christmas > > > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to > > > even > > > > > > care about > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > > > retention > > > > > > due to > > > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is, > > > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > > > stunting > > > > so > > > > > > it wasn't > > > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger > tank > > > (or > > > > > > same size > > > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > > > water), > > > > > she > > > > > > is growing > > > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other > two. > > > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers > wasn't > > > > there > > > > > > and I don't > > > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the > > three > > > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an > approximate > > > age) > > > > > > What size > > > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they > > > have > > > > > > been in from > > > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under > > > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > > > and .50ppm; > > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. > > since > > > > the > > > > > > last PWC. > > > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > > > fungus > > > > at > > > > > > bay until I > > > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the > spitting/choking > > > > thing > > > > > > occasionally > > > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when > > they > > > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven > and > > > CB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and > > > will > > > > go > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs > > > Salt > > > > > > Levels" for > > > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water, > > > since > > > > > > there isn't > > > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, > but > > > > after > > > > > > exertion > > > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a > > shaking > > > > of > > > > > > the head, > > > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish > > is > > > > > > eating and > > > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only > > she's > > > > not > > > > > > eating at > > > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > > > nitrogen > > > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep > > the > > > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the > > ammonia/nitrite > > > so > > > > > > you should > > > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do > > PWC's > > > to > > > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons > > per > > > > > > gallon) of > > > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would > bring > > > it > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water, > > > you'll > > > > > > bring the > > > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring > the > > > > 0.285% > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the > new > > > > > > number). You will > > > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5 > > of > > > > the > > > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After > > about 5 > > > > of > > > > > > those, you > > > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which > would > > no > > > > > > longer be > > > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing > any > > > > kinds > > > > > of > > > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? > Or > > a > > > > slow > > > > > > gulping > > > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water > > with > > > > > salt) > > > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and > that's > > > > > > probably what > > > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly > > > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's > > level > > > > and > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > PWC) > > > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme > exhaustion > > > and > > > > > > that choking > > > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this > > afternoon. > > > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering > > the > > > > > salt > > > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > > > eliminated. > > > > > > When > > > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and > > > > > > especially > > > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > > > treatment > > > > of > > > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can > be > > > > > > reduced. > > > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's > > just > > > a > > > > > bit > > > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in > > the > > > > form > > > > > > of > > > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to > start > > > > > > treating > > > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > > > adjusting > > > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, > > fish > > > > will > > > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections > > worsen > > > > and > > > > > > will > > > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result > > of > > > > your > > > > > > not > > > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > > > noticed > > > > > > your > > > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test > > kits > > > > > (high > > > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like > > more > > > > > > frequent > > > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you > > don't > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > > > remainder > > > > of > > > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and > > test > > > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > 10 - > > > > 15ppm > > > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. > CB > > > and > > > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than > they > > > have > > > > > > been. > > > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts > likes > > > > she's > > > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking > > head). > > > I > > > > > did > > > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was > > doing > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > > > pellets > > > > > > from > > > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. > > What > > > > I'm > > > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop, > > > > pretty > > > > > > much > > > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and > I'm > > > not > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days > since > > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but > > seems > > > > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but > still > > > > spent > > > > > > most > > > > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few > times > > > when > > > > > > Raven > > > > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the back > > > > corner > > > > > > for a > > > > > > > bit. > > > > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > Nitrite: > > > > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > > > > continuity- > > > > > -- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder into > > the > > > > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said > it > > > was > > > > > ok. > > > > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on > and > > > off > > > > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the others' > > > > symptoms > > > > > > up > > > > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose I > > > could > > > > > > have > > > > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never had > > > > clamped > > > > > > fins > > > > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only > symptom > > > I'm > > > > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and > Rave > > > are > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message---------- -- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the > > water > > > > > > > column, it > > > > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their > swim > > > > > > > bladders, as > > > > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces > > > though > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal > infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, although > > all > > > > > > > being a > > > > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather > than > > > > > > > bacterial. > > > > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the > > Protozoan > > > > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > > > > Goldfish, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > > > > (roundworms) > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal > > tapeworms > > > > when > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such parasitic > > > > > > > infections > > > > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, and > is > > > > > > > impossible > > > > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish > is > > > > > > > clearing up > > > > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to > mix > > > > > > > medications > > > > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal parasite > > > > issues. > > > > > > > Since > > > > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left to > > go > > > > with > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > fungus > > > > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite > > medication > > > > > > > (unless you > > > > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have > to > > > have > > > > > > > shipped > > > > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus > in > > > > > > > another 4 > > > > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt > > (alone) > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you medicate > > for > > > > > this > > > > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due > for > > > its > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the > > water > > > > for > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the filter > > to > > > > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel (Bayer's "Droncit") > > for > > > > > > > treatment > > > > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as > > Prazipro, > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing > > > agent) - > > > > - > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If > you > > > > can't > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that you > > > > can't, > > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can > buy > > > > this > > > > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ > > $2.99 > > > > > > > (treats > > > > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and > 16 > > > oz.@ > > > > > > > $32.74 > > > > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices > being > > > > > > > effective as > > > > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, > I'll > > > > > > > mention for > > > > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by > > > Hikari > > > > in > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles > > (treats > > > > 3200 > > > > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. (treats > > > > 12,800 > > > > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. > If > > > one > > > > > > > can use > > > > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy the > > 16 > > > > > ounce > > > > > > > pond > > > > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is > > > similarly > > > > > > > priced > > > > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 days, > > is > > > > all > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > > > > necessary. > > > > > > > One > > > > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 > gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > > > > medication > > > > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole > > (Fluke > > > > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > > > > Prazipro. > > > > > > > Both > > > > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, > > though, > > > > and > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but > > annoying > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), > > Prizipro > > > > > will > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to > get > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting > > Day 4 > > > > of > > > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start resting > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > bottom > > > > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top was > > > their > > > > > > > choice, > > > > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when they > > > > relaxed > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw > mentioned > > > in a > > > > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is white, > > and > > > > > > > some is > > > > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't been > > able > > > > to > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from > the > > > > Tetra > > > > > > > food > > > > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the > > other > > > > > two - > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. Raven > > > still > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the dorsal > > fin, > > > > but > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine > > color > > > > and > > > > > > > shiny, > > > > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking > > > that's > > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a bit over .25ppm; > > > > > > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: close to 20ppm > > > > > > > > > - Water temp ranges from 68F to 70F. The house > > > thermostat > > > > > > > is set > > > > > > > > to 67 during the day and 63 at night. > > > > > > > > > - I've noticed some brown areas on some of the > plastic > > > > tank > > > > > > > > decorations. I thought it was part of the pattern > until > > I > > > > > > > scraped > > > > > > > > some off with gravel cleaner. Is this anything to be > > > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > about as long as it doesn't take over? Or is this > > possibly > > > > > > > related > > > > > > > > to the fishes' problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tomorrow completes the 4th day of Fungus Clear. > The > > > > > > > instructions > > > > > > > > say to give a second dose in 4 days, "if necessary," > > > > following > > > > > > > a 25% > > > > > > > > PWC. Should I go with a second does, try something > else, > > > or > > > > > > > put the > > > > > > > > carbon filter back in and see how they do for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well the lady sold the aquarium out from under me, > > > > > > > before we > > > > > > > > could go pick it up So, unless a really good deal > shows > > up > > > > on > > > > > > > > FreeCycle or Craigslist, I'll wait for one of the > > PetSmart > > > > > > > sales. > > > > > > > > It's not like I'd be moving the fish before I get them > > > > healthy > > > > > > > > anyway. I totally assume that any used tank will need > to > > > be > > > > > > > stripped > > > > > > > > and completely resealed. I won't even consider any of > > the > > > > > > > slate- > > > > > > > > bottomed ones, because of what might be absorbed into > > them > > > > > from > > > > > > > > previous inhabitants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really want to thank you for all the help. I don't > > > know > > > > > > > what I'd > > > > > > > > do without you guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:47 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their sustained appetite is at least one factor to > be > > > seen > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > encouraging, even if this new behavior may seem > > > > > > > discouraging. > > > > > > > > If, by > > > > > > > > > chance, they were needing more O2, they would hang > > near > > > > the > > > > > > > > surface > > > > > > > > > (as you're indicating), but not necessarily up > against > > > the > > > > > > > glass > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > any one corner -- fish deprived of O2 generally also > > > gulp > > > > > > > at the > > > > > > > > > surface, which you're saying your's don't. No, they > > > would > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > necessarily hang near where the bubbles are being > > > created > > > > > > > by the > > > > > > > > > filter outlet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A first question on this is whether these fish are > > being > > > > > > > bouyed > > > > > > > > up at > > > > > > > > > the surface against their preference as though their > > > swim > > > > > > > > bladders > > > > > > > > > are preventing them from diving deeper, or whether > > they > > > > are > > > > > > > > > themselves preferring to remain at the surface as > > their > > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > > than swimming deeper. This difference would > indicate a > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > > internal infection or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The advice given was directed at the cottony fungal > > > issues > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > bodies at the base of their fins. Has this cleared > up > > > any, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > this condition looking any better? Often, without > > > actually > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > there to observe the fish, and going only on an > > owner's > > > > > > > written > > > > > > > > > decription, not everything can be "seen" in what's > > going > > > > on > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > subtle but important things can be missed. I've > never > > > seen > > > > > > > > > Nitrofuran to effect any fish in this manner and > > suspect > > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > > else unseen is going on here; what is your water > > > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > Are > > > > > > > > ><br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34862	From: Darlene	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Friday test results

PH is 7.2 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm Nitrate is 5 ppm KH is 60 mg/L GH is 220 ppm (very hard according to the hagen chart) water temp is 74 Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34863	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Yes, I remember this set of readings. With day 2 already having .25 ppm of ammonia, this would seem quite sudden -- and to me, suspicious although I could be wrong. By your 1st day result for ammonia, it would not appear as though you have chloramine in your tap water, although I would still prefer the reply from your water company to be sure. If you need to do a PWC before the third day, removing a portion of the PraziPro in doing this, yes you should replace the portion of PraziPro you removed at that time. You cannot expect the medication to perform as though it were at full strength, when you remove some of it. If, for instance, you remove and replace 6 gallons of water as a PWC of your tank of 18 gallons, you'll need to replace 1/3 of the amount of PraziPro you initially started with. The aquarium- solution strength PraziPro requires you use 1 tps per 20 gallons (6 drops less for 18 gallons); for 6 gallons, you'd need to replace a bit less than 1/3 of a tsp (or 18 drops). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > - Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): > day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: > 0ppm > 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > > - The question about treating the replacement water was for PraziPro if I > need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it > appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water supply, as > the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. CB > may be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two > fish, which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish eating > is a good sign, and encouraging to see. > > If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, dechlor > will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of it. > Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of chloramine > and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter may > be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what you > have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing the > chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for removing > chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be able to > treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that would > otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water > containing chlorine. > > The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, if it > turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this > ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your > having chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from any > other source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done right > now. > > If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be aware > that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter can > create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as your > Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly > reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it without > filtering it out. > > A good change to fresh water before introducing another medication is > always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's > rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK (?) > I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm > reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and I'm > assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you should > ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You should > NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 gallon > PWC on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or > dechlor, if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, not > 20 gallons. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update > later > > tonight. > > > > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my > Baseline tests > > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. I'll > verify > > that before my post tonight. > > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a picture. > > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest > more than > > the others. > > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap > filter. > > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the > Prime. For > > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the > filter, but > > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water before > I do > > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the > fish don't > > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. > > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at > least 3 > > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I > need to do > > a PWC before then? > > > > More later. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now beginning > > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results remaining > > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest > > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner in > > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I > > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your > water > > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far > > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria should > > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, > > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect to > > keep up. We'll work on it though. > > > > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not > especially > > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters > > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop > > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do > > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development > of > > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of > > Lucille, showing these streaks? > > > > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat for > > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe to > > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in > conjuction > > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild > medication, > > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. > > > > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition to > > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) need > > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine in > > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you > do > > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but > > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that your > > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or > may > > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you > have > > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water > > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been > using > > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you should > > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an > > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only > > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue to > > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste > > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is in > > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) > > > > > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly > > under .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm > > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM > > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM > > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G > > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have > an > > > airstone) > > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged > > > > > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the > Prime > > and also > > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep > > telling myself > > > to get it and I keep forgetting. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:51 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You > can > > > grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly > obvious. > > > Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when > > > seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only > be > > > from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice > > to > > > use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen > > > depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. > > > > > > With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover > > > medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed > > > stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with > > the > > > PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 > gallon > > > tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. > > Always > > > nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. > Any > > > improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that > > > eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will > > > address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it > > > becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up > > > bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that > > > route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep > us > > > posted. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using > the > > > Amquel+, > > > > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection > > > between the > > > > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been > so > > > focused > > > > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a > > > couple of > > > > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She > > > has got to > > > > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length- wise. I > > > think she's > > > > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were > about > > > the same > > > > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all > > > three and > > > > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They > were > > > in a 10G > > > > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G > tank. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > > > > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, > and > > > > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > > > > circulation as would an airstone. > > > > > > > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ > > or > > > > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with > > your > > > > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if > you > > > > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the > > aeration > > > > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to > grow. > > > > > > > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > > > > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that > > they're > > > > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or > since > > > > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC > > regimen > > > > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand > > how > > > > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > > > > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- > > even > > > > if imperceptibly. > > > > > > > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > > > > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > > > > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > > > > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as > > I've > > > > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > > > > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no > > +) > > > > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > > > > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths > > > when > > > > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly > > how > > > > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease > > their > > > > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this > > new > > > > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration > > when > > > > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally > be > > > > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a > result > > of > > > > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller > > benefit > > > > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first > > mentioned > > > > having > > > > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I > lower > > > the > > > > water > > > > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a > last > > > > resort, > > > > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its > strictly a > > > > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia > bond > > > and > > > > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best > > used > > > > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > > > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert > > > with > > > > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of > Amquel+ > > > > alone > > > > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been > > > reports > > > > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the > > > oxygen > > > > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > > > > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the > chloramine > > > > added > > > > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ > than > > > one > > > > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using > > an > > > > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to > > > ensure > > > > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just > a > > > link > > > > > to the > > > > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of > > the > > > > > other files > > > > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > > > > writing info > > > > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day > > > doesn't > > > > > do the > > > > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which > > should > > > > > have arrived > > > > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! > She's > > > > > almost twice > > > > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that > > big > > > > > tank as > > > > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q > FOR > > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one > > > less > > > > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no > osmotic > > > > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any > more > > if > > > > the > > > > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the > > > token > > > > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 > > > Gallons > > > > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, > > > like > > > > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in > > > your > > > > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel > > > Sheet > > > > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial > > Nitrogen > > > > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can > > > avoid > > > > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you > > change > > > > > (and > > > > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But > > there > > > > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health > of > > > your > > > > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. > This > > is > > > > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can > > otherwise > > > > get > > > > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only > as > > I > > > > had > > > > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I > > > hate > > > > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > > > > address > > > > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste > product > > > > being > > > > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using > > Prime > > > > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > > > > ammonium > > > > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This > > > should > > > > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat > to > > > > avoid > > > > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in > > changing > > > > out > > > > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further > > reduce > > > > your > > > > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, > > your > > > > > cycle > > > > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same > > > time > > > > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 > > > tsp/G > > > > > of > > > > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would > > have > > > > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know > > > you've > > > > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where > the > > > > salt > > > > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > > > > trouble > > > > > > with > > > > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I > > guess > > > if > > > > > > they both > > > > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait > on > > > the > > > > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with > > the > > > > salt > > > > > > level and > > > > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that > > gets > > > > the > > > > > > ammonia > > > > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------ - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of > > reducing > > > > it) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing > > the > > > > > > PWC. The > > > > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to > > lower > > > it > > > > > > yesterday > > > > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer > > > sitting > > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. > Lucille > > is > > > > the > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia > get > > > > worse, > > > > > > I'll > > > > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and > > nitrite > > > > > > lower. Will > > > > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to > lower > > > > > this?); > > > > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > > > > hadn't > > > > > > been zero, > > > > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity----- -- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q > > FOR > > > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended > on > > > > doing > > > > > a > > > > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did > > > want > > > > to > > > > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday > > night, > > > > > which > > > > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any > > of > > > > your > > > > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, > > around > > > > > noon > > > > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you > > > were > > > > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted > > > accordingly > > > > > (I > > > > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I > wrote > > > > you a > > > > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about > 2 > > > > > seconds > > > > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm > > here > > > > was > > > > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to > > send > > > > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't > > > blame > > > > my > > > > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as > > that's > > > > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to > > me!), > > > > but > > > > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never > > > hurts > > > > > to > > > > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might > > > correct > > > > > any > > > > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the > > problem > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, > > which > > > > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good > > sign). > > > > On > > > > > > the > > > > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt > > > content > > > > > was > > > > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around > > Noon > > > > that > > > > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you > > > intended > > > > > on > > > > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen > anything > > on > > > > any > > > > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any > PWC's > > > that > > > > > > > day). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit > > confusing > > > > when > > > > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > > > > REPLACED 1 > > > > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to > 2.08 > > > > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you > > > decided > > > > > not > > > > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the > > salt > > > a > > > > 2 > > > > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made > > > another > > > > > PWC > > > > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at > 11:00 > > > PM > > > > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it > any > > > less > > > > > > than > > > > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no > > > power > > > > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, > > > reducing > > > > > the > > > > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken > > out > > > > any > > > > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can > use > > > the > > > > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is > > > extremely > > > > > > mild > > > > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I > > hope > > > > all > > > > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the > > post > > > > of > > > > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which > you > > > were > > > > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, > especially > > as > > > > it > > > > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see > > some > > > > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus > > Clear > > > if > > > > > it > > > > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro > (which > > > > might > > > > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, > I > > > said > > > > > the > > > > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would > enjoy a > > > day > > > > > of > > > > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but > > the > > > > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with > the > > > > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no > > other > > > > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at > > least > > > > > > nothing > > > > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > > > > parasite > > > > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it > wouldn't > > > pay > > > > to > > > > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still > > use > > > > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You > > > will > > > > > have > > > > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia > and > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have > > these > > > > > levels > > > > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become > > to > > > > your > > > > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia > > > (right, > > > > > you > > > > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in > > the > > > > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > > > > levels > > > > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > > > > PetSmart > > > > > > and > > > > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for > where > > > to > > > > > find > > > > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far > away, > > > but > > > > it > > > > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one > > > nearby, > > > > > but > > > > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. > > I > > > > was > > > > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores > > > carry > > > > > > that > > > > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the > > last > > > > two > > > > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB > > > actually > > > > > came > > > > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting > there > > > and > > > > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I > > > thought > > > > > that > > > > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with > > > salt. > > > > > I > > > > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before > > > giving > > > > > the > > > > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do > > the > > > > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the > > osmotic > > > > > > stress > > > > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a > > foothold > > > > > again > > > > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE > TO > > > > LOWER > > > > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest > > > anything > > > > > > else > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides > > the > > > > > > > potential for > > > > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > > > > constipation... > > > > > > > and it's also > > > > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" > > once > > > a > > > > > week > > > > > > > or so just > > > > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to > digestive > > > > > system > > > > > > > disorders.. > > > > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite > Green > > > for > > > > a > > > > > > few > > > > > > > days which > > > > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do > > the > > > > > > Maracyn > > > > > > > 2? And > > > > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you > add > > > salt > > > > > to > > > > > > > this last > > > > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each > > > PWC? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of > the > > > > rest > > > > > of > > > > > > > the meds. > > > > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly > stressed > > > with > > > > > too > > > > > > > much meds. > > > > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them > a > > > day > > > > of > > > > > > > just fresh > > > > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a > chance > > to > > > > > rest > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good > > > clean > > > > > > fresh > > > > > > > air for > > > > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out > > any > > > > meds > > > > > > > that are > > > > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so > > > only > > > > > the > > > > > > > PWC's will > > > > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed > > > > on > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by > > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level > is > > > now > > > > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > > > > under .25ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still > offering > > > > Tetra > > > > > > > flakes, > > > > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. > > Maybe > > > > the > > > > > > > carbs will > > > > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a > > > chance > > > > to > > > > > > > work. If it > > > > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at > a > > > LFS > > > > > that > > > > > > > might help > > > > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very > > good. > > > > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > > > > Adding > > > > > > > anything to > > > > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably > > finish > > > > CB > > > > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before > > > coming > > > > > here > > > > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the > summer > > > when > > > > > the > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. > > > Since > > > > > > these > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate > > some > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but > she > > > may > > > > > be > > > > > > a > > > > > > > bit > > > > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the > > > parasites, > > > > > > > remains to be > > > > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final > > check > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > fish before > > > > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, > > looking > > > at > > > > > the > > > > > > > Christmas > > > > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better > to > > > > even > > > > > > > care about > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > > > > retention > > > > > > > due to > > > > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it > is, > > > > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > > > > stunting > > > > > so > > > > > > > it wasn't > > > > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger > > tank > > > > (or > > > > > > > same size > > > > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > > > > water), > > > > > > she > > > > > > > is growing > > > > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other > > two. > > > > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers > > wasn't > > > > > there > > > > > > > and I don't > > > > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the > > > three > > > > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an > > approximate > > > > age) > > > > > > > What size > > > > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank > they > > > > have > > > > > > > been in from > > > > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed > > > > on > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by > > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of > under > > > > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > > > > and .50ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. > > > since > > > > > the > > > > > > > last PWC. > > > > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > > > > fungus > > > > > at > > > > > > > bay until I > > > > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the > > spitting/choking > > > > > thing > > > > > > > occasionally > > > > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when > > > they > > > > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven > > and > > > > CB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, > and > > > > will > > > > > go > > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel > file, "DebRs > > > > Salt > > > > > > > Levels" for > > > > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the > water, > > > > since > > > > > > > there isn't > > > > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, > > but > > > > > after > > > > > > > exertion > > > > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a > > > shaking > > > > > of > > > > > > > the head, > > > > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a > fish > > > is > > > > > > > eating and > > > > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only > > > she's > > > > > not > > > > > > > eating at > > > > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > > > > nitrogen > > > > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to > keep > > > the > > > > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > so > > > > > > > you should > > > > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do > > > PWC's > > > > to > > > > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons > > > per > > > > > > > gallon) of > > > > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would > > bring > > > > it > > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear > water, > > > > you'll > > > > > > > bring the > > > > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring > > the > > > > > 0.285% > > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the > > new > > > > > > > number). You will > > > > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after > about 5 > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After > > > about 5 > > > > > of > > > > > > > those, you > > > > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which > > would > > > no > > > > > > > longer be > > > > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing > > any > > > > > kinds > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? > > Or > > > a > > > > > slow > > > > > > > gulping > > > > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed > > > > on > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by > > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water > > > with > > > > > > salt) > > > > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and > > that's > > > > > > > probably what > > > > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > slightly > > > > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's > > > level > > > > > and > > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > > PWC) > > > > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme > > exhaustion > > > > and > > > > > > > that choking > > > > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this > > > afternoon. > > > > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your > lowering > > > the > > > > > > salt > > > > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > > > > eliminated. > > > > > > > When > > > > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, > and > > > > > > > especially > > > > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > > > > treatment > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can > > be > > > > > > > reduced. > > > > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's > > > just > > > > a > > > > > > bit > > > > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water > (in > > > the > > > > > form > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to > > start > > > > > > > treating > > > > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > > > > adjusting > > > > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, > > > fish > > > > > will > > > > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections > > > worsen > > > > > and > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a > result > > > of > > > > > your > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > > > > noticed > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test > > > kits > > > > > > (high > > > > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like > > > more > > > > > > > frequent > > > > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you > > > don't > > > > > want > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > > > > remainder > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and > > > test > > > > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > > 10 - > > > > > 15ppm > > > > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. > > CB > > > > and > > > > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than > > they > > > > have > > > > > > > been. > > > > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts > > likes > > > > > she's > > > > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking > > > head). > > > > I > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was > > > doing > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > > > > pellets > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. > > > What > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear > poop, > > > > > pretty > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and > > I'm > > > > not > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days > > since > > > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but > > > seems > > > > > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but > > still > > > > > spent > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few > > times > > > > when > > > > > > > Raven > > > > > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the > back > > > > > corner > > > > > > > for a > > > > > > > > bit. > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > > > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > > > > > continuity- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder > into > > > the > > > > > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said > > it > > > > was > > > > > > ok. > > > > > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on > > and > > > > off > > > > > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the > others' > > > > > symptoms > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose > I > > > > could > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never > had > > > > > clamped > > > > > > > fins > > > > > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only > > symptom > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and > > Rave > > > > are > > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message-------- -- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > > -- > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the > > > water > > > > > > > > column, it > > > > > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their > > swim > > > > > > > > bladders, as > > > > > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces > > > > though > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal > > infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, > although > > > all > > > > > > > > being a > > > > > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather > > than > > > > > > > > bacterial. > > > > > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the > > > Protozoan > > > > > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > > > > > Goldfish, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > > > > > (roundworms) > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal > > > tapeworms > > > > > when > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such > parasitic > > > > > > > > infections > > > > > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, > and > > is > > > > > > > > impossible > > > > > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish > > is > > > > > > > > clearing up > > > > > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to > > mix > > > > > > > > medications > > > > > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal > parasite > > > > > issues. > > > > > > > > Since > > > > > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left > to > > > go > > > > > with > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > fungus > > > > > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite > > > medication > > > > > > > > (unless you > > > > > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have > > to > > > > have > > > > > > > > shipped > > > > > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus > > in > > > > > > > > another 4 > > > > > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt > > > (alone) > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you > medicate > > > for > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due > > for > > > > its > > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the > > > water > > > > > for > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the > filter > > > to > > > > > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel > (Bayer's "Droncit") > > > for > > > > > > > > treatment > > > > > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as > > > Prazipro, > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing > > > > agent) - > > > > > - > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If > > you > > > > > can't > > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that > you > > > > > can't, > > > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can > > buy > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ > > > $2.99 > > > > > > > > (treats > > > > > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and > > 16 > > > > oz.@ > > > > > > > > $32.74 > > > > > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices > > being > > > > > > > > effective as > > > > > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, > > I'll > > > > > > > > mention for > > > > > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by > > > > Hikari > > > > > in > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles > > > (treats > > > > > 3200 > > > > > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. > (treats > > > > > 12,800 > > > > > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. > > If > > > > one > > > > > > > > can use > > > > > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy > the > > > 16 > > > > > > ounce > > > > > > > > pond > > > > > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is > > > > similarly > > > > > > > > priced > > > > > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 > days, > > > is > > > > > all > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > > > > > necessary. > > > > > > > > One > > > > > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 > > gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > > > > > medication > > > > > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole > > > (Fluke > > > > > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > > > > > Prazipro. > > > > > > > > Both > > > > > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, > > > though, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but > > > annoying > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), > > > Prizipro > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to > > get > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > , "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 12 of salt) (Starting > > > Day 4 > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - This evening CB and Raven decided to start > resting > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bottom > > > > > > > > > of the tank again. I do think staying near the top > was > > > > their > > > > > > > > choice, > > > > > > > > > as they tended to start sinking, tail first when > they > > > > > relaxed > > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > > > > - Raven has the long stringy poo that I saw > > mentioned > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > different thread. A lot of it is clear. Some is > white, > > > and > > > > > > > > some is > > > > > > > > > food-colored. Lucille's is normal, but I haven't > been > > > able > > > > > to > > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > what CB is doing. (BTW, I am weaning them over from > > the > > > > > Tetra > > > > > > > > food > > > > > > > > > to Omega One pellets) > > > > > > > > > > - CB seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the > > > other > > > > > > two - > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > panic breathing, but I'll keep an eye on it. > > > > > > > > > > - I don't see any white cotton on CB any more. > Raven > > > > still > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > some thin whitish areas on one side and on the > dorsal > > > fin, > > > > > but > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > of where the cottony stuff was is now a pale sardine > > > color > > > > > and > > > > > > > > shiny, > > > > > > > > > as opposed to her normal velvety black. I'm thinking > > > > that's > > > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > > a sign of healing? > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings: pH: 7.5 Ammonia: a b<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34864	From: Leanna	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Hi Im New

Hello, im leanna(call me Anna) i am new to fish tanks and just set up my first(unless you count the time when i was 3) its a 10gallon freshwater tank, i have a asin theam decor. My fish are 2 male fancy guppys 1 pregnet female fancy guppy 5 neon's and one cory cat. the tetras and cory cat are new today. all water tests say my water is good, just SLIGHTLY high on nitrates and i mean barly high. my guppys are happy as can be(the pregnit female should be proof of that) but the tetras and cory cat are my second bach (thank goodness for fishstore garentees) my past batch all died a slow death and i dont know y. none of the petstore staff have a clue, my water comes out clean and my guppys are fantastic... i was hoping you mite have a clue as to what did in my dearly departed fish. thanks for all and any inpoot Leanna(Anna)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34865	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?

Another Update I have added a nightlight to the fish room where it gives off a deep blue glow. Its dark enough not to bother my hermit crabs but light enough to where I can make out the object in the tank. The angelfishs wound has gotten bigger but it doesnt look likes its spreading now its just turned all white (the wound not the fish LOL) I think all of the infection is gone and the wound is healing and the swelling has gone down....maybe.. I hope! After seven days in a hospital tank with a tablespoon of salt and 5ml/day of Melafix, he seems to have real tiny white spots on him like Ich. I didnt take a chance so I did a 25% water change and added one Tank Buddy for Ich. I though maybe a secondary infection??? Thats where I am at as of last night (the 25th). I dont want to over treat him so i might go with another tank buddy then do a complete water change and go back to just salt. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Alright, from this we can gather that this is definitely no marking > or color pattern indication of any sort. It would appear to be a > wound, probably suffered when the fish ran into an unexpected foreign > object (plastic rock or plant) you recently placed in the tank -- not > that the fish remembered the bottom as being previously devoid of > these objects previously though). A panicked fish in the dark can be > expected to run into such objects no matter how familiar they are > with their tank; for this reason, you need to either limited such > objects or see to the safety of them. Some hobbyists employ a night > light for their aquariums, just for this purpose, would would help > ensure the prevention of such "collisions," as well as defusing any > cause for panic in the dark in the first place. > > While at least some of your fish may be aggressive, or at least known > to have the possibility of being aggressive, its doubtful that this > wound was caused by any other of your fish, unless some of your fish > were of more of a carnivorus nature (Piranha's, for example) which > may take a piece out of the flesh. Most other aggressive "community - > type" fish will usually attack other fishes' fins only, regardless of > which aggressive community fish are involved. Very rarely, but still > possible, is an attack to another fish's eye, but this is rare and > may been primarily (though rarely) seen in conspecifics of the > species involved. i.e., other Angelfish. We are not talking about > Lake Malawi scale-eaters or eye-snatchers here, and its even doubtful > that Blue Gourami's would have the dentition to take a check out of > another fish. > > If you can get a pic, all well and good; if you can't don't worry > about it. Your description of the wound's location will suffice. > The main thing now is to treat this wound to avoid infection. Salt > addition will help prevent infection as well as promote a heavier > slime coat on the fish, creating a barrier to infection. Your mini > Silver Dollar (are you sure he's not a mini Piranha in disguise -- > LOL) will prevent you from adding much more than 1 Tbs of salt per 5 > Gallons, but I'd recommend adding that after doing a 25% PWC to > ensure cleaner water conditions. > > A pencil point chunk such as this should heal in short time. Keep an > eye on it for any complications and report back to us if you see > anything suspicious. There are a number of routes we can take with > some mild medications if need be, but I don't see them as being > necessary, at least not at this time. You should think about a small > night light (lamp with a mini refigerator bulb, perhaps, I think > they're like 7.5 Watts) or something similar nearby to use after > lights out. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34866	From: Wendie	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Java Moss

Good thought. I will contact them. I'll miss those little devils. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss You should contact the seller and ask them if they used any kind of disinfectant or possibly some kind of treatment (copper based) to kill off snails in their tank and possibly that copper was absorbed by the plants and then leached out in your tank.. or maybe even the Kuhli's munched on the Java Moss. My understanding is that Kuhli's are more sensitive to copper than many other fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 4:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Java Moss No as it was done on Aquabid with a seller with a good rating. The only problem there is that the ratings are usually given before something happens. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss Did you see the seller remove the plants from their tank and bag them up for you? Could they have given them a dip in some kind of disinfectant (alum, PP, bleach, etc.) and then didn't rinse them fully so you introduced that to your tank? As \\Steve// asked, what were your water parameters before and after? Check your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc... always the first thing that should be done whenever there is a noticeable issue just to verify that these things are not part of the problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss Had your water parameters changed at all? \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wendie > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 12:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > Plain water as I'd never had a problem before. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:57 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > You say that you rinsed the java moss. Exactly what do you mean by > that? Just rinse them in plain water? Gave them a bath with an alum solution? Potassium permanganate? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wendie > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Java Moss > > > > I prefer plants and have always had them in my tanks. Recently I > > bought a couple balls of Java Moss for an established tank. I > > received them and they looked great. I rinsed them off and put them > > in the tank. Within 10 days, my three black kuhli loaches lay dying > > on the gravel. These guys were with me for over 5 years without any > > problems. Shortly after that, my entire kuhli loach colony lay dying > > on the gravel and elsewhere. These guys had been with me for about 4 > > years and were doing great. Never sick, never had a problem with > > them. I have more black kuhlis in another tank (same group and doing > > great), but my regular kuhlis are wiped out now. > > > > Where did I go wrong? It looked great. No snails, no smell. Just > > nice looking moss. > > > > I am closing down that tank now. With the electricity so darn high > > around here I might just as well try saving a little bit. I have 4 > > other tanks running. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34867	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: OK got the angelfish photo!

The pic is in the file section. Its called angelfishwound. Sorry the pic is so big but I just got Windows Vista and everything on it sucks.... I meant I havent learned how to use it properly yet. Anyway the little white dots on his side are attached to him. That area behind his eye, Im not sure what that is. any other specks or dots are dirty glass and overexposure and amatuer photographer. :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34868	From: Leanna	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Fancy Tail Guppies

Is it possable to provide an environment healthy anuf to increase the langth and color of a fancy guppie males tail?? i have 2 males and 1 female, and i seware that my males are geting longer fins, and their bodys more defind. is it all in my head? thanks anna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34869	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Lucille's Tail

I tried to get pictures and they're just too fuzzy. I did get a short video, though, that might be clear enough: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU OR http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not especially expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development of this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of Lucille, showing these streaks?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34870	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/26/2008
Subject: Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?

Friday Night Check in (Day 9 of Reduced Salt - 25 Days total)(Starting PraziPro): Wed (Christmas Eve): - 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to 10ppm - 1tsp Amquel+ @ 11AM (2nd half of dose) Thu (Christmas Day): - 11AM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to 10ppm - .5cc Prime @ 1PM (I wouldn't normally do this, but there was no time for a PWC and I wanted to keep the ammonia down until Friday) - Midnight: Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0 to .25ppm; Nitrate: almost 10ppm - 1cc Prime @ midnight (same reasoning- had to way the risk of extra Prime against that of too much Ammonia) Fri (today): - PWC @ 3PM (7G out, 8G in, 19G ttl in tank) - Treated each G of new water with 1tsp salt and .1cc Prime - 5PM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to 10ppm - 4.8cc PraziPro @ 5:30PM I won't stop using the Brita filter, but will use the Prime for PWCs until I get the fish through the PraziPro and know what's going on with the chlorine/chloramines situation. I did notice that the pH dropped 2 points with the water treatment. That's probably a good thing. I dodged a bullet Christmas Eve. I went to the pet store for dog food, because I also needed to get the aquarium stuff. If hubby had gone, he was going to surprise me with a small school of neon tetras to put with the goldfish. *sigh* I doubt they even have the same environmental needs and I keep trying to explain that the goldfish have already maxed out the tank bio-load, not to mention that they still have health problems. It goes in one ear and out the other. His sister has two goldfish in what looks like a 2.5 gallon tank and they're "just fine." Hubby wants me to stunt my fish so they don't turn into carps. I'll rehome them and shut down the aquarium before I do that. I've put too much work into getting them healthy. Oops. Bedtime. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Yes, I remember this set of readings. With day 2 already having .25 ppm of ammonia, this would seem quite sudden -- and to me, suspicious although I could be wrong. By your 1st day result for ammonia, it would not appear as though you have chloramine in your tap water, although I would still prefer the reply from your water company to be sure. If you need to do a PWC before the third day, removing a portion of the PraziPro in doing this, yes you should replace the portion of PraziPro you removed at that time. You cannot expect the medication to perform as though it were at full strength, when you remove some of it. If, for instance, you remove and replace 6 gallons of water as a PWC of your tank of 18 gallons, you'll need to replace 1/3 of the amount of PraziPro you initially started with. The aquarium- solution strength PraziPro requires you use 1 tps per 20 gallons (6 drops less for 18 gallons); for 6 gallons, you'd need to replace a bit less than 1/3 of a tsp (or 18 drops). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > - Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): > day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: > 0ppm > 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > > - The question about treating the replacement water was for PraziPro if I > need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it > appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water supply, as > the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. CB > may be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two > fish, which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish eating > is a good sign, and encouraging to see. > > If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, dechlor > will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of it. > Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of chloramine > and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter may > be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what you > have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing the > chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for removing > chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be able to > treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that would > otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water > containing chlorine. > > The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, if it > turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this > ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your > having chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from any > other source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done right > now. > > If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be aware > that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter can > create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as your > Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly > reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it without > filtering it out. > > A good change to fresh water before introducing another medication is > always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's > rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK (?) > I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm > reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and I'm > assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you should > ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You should > NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 gallon > PWC on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or > dechlor, if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, not > 20 gallons. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update > later > > tonight. > > > > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my > Baseline tests > > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. I'll > verify > > that before my post tonight. > > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a picture. > > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest > more than > > the others. > > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap > filter. > > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the > Prime. For > > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the > filter, but > > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water before > I do > > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the > fish don't > > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. > > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at > least 3 > > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I > need to do > > a PWC before then? > > > > More later. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now beginning > > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results remaining > > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest > > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner in > > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I > > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your > water > > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far > > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria should > > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, > > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect to > > keep up. We'll work on it though. > > > > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not > especially > > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters > > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop > > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do > > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development > of > > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of > > Lucille, showing these streaks? > > > > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat for > > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe to > > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in > conjuction > > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild > medication, > > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. > > > > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition to > > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) need > > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine in > > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you > do > > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but > > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that your > > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or > may > > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you > have > > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water > > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been > using > > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you should > > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an > > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only > > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue to > > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste > > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is in > > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) > > > > > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly > > under .25ppm; > > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm > > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM > > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM > > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G > > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have > an > > > airstone) > > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged > > > > > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the > Prime > > and also > > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep > > telling myself > > > to get it and I keep forgetting. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:51 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY > > > > > > > > > Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You > can > > > grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly > obvious. > > > Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when > > > seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only > be > > > from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice > > to > > > use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen > > > depletion affecting the fish as a result of it. > > > > > > With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover > > > medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed > > > stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with > > the > > > PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 > gallon > > > tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. > > Always > > > nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. > Any > > > improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that > > > eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will > > > address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it > > > becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up > > > bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that > > > route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep > us > > > posted. Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using > the > > > Amquel+, > > > > I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection > > > between the > > > > Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been > so > > > focused > > > > on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a > > > couple of > > > > days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She > > > has got to > > > > be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length- wise. I > > > think she's > > > > about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were > about > > > the same > > > > size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all > > > three and > > > > realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They > were > > > in a 10G > > > > tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G > tank. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the > > > > outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, > and > > > > while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface > > > > circulation as would an airstone. > > > > > > > > I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ > > or > > > > its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with > > your > > > > fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if > you > > > > don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the > > aeration > > > > as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to > grow. > > > > > > > > I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are > > > > growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that > > they're > > > > growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or > since > > > > you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC > > regimen > > > > or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand > > how > > > > you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with > > > > proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- > > even > > > > if imperceptibly. > > > > > > > > My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a > > > > Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I > > > > couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get > > > > Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as > > I've > > > > ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of > > > > using it, regardless of any manner of aeration. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no > > +) > > > > which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer > > > > formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths > > > when > > > > even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly > > how > > > > much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease > > their > > > > usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this > > new > > > > formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration > > when > > > > using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally > be > > > > needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a > result > > of > > > > this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller > > benefit > > > > of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I totally understand. I think it was after I first > > mentioned > > > > having > > > > > used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I > lower > > > the > > > > water > > > > > levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a > last > > > > resort, > > > > > since the goldfish are growing, now. > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its > strictly a > > > > > chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia > bond > > > and > > > > > converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best > > used > > > > > with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of > > > > > process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert > > > with > > > > > anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of > Amquel+ > > > > alone > > > > > in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been > > > reports > > > > > at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the > > > oxygen > > > > > balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- > > > > > > ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the > chloramine > > > > added > > > > > to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ > than > > > one > > > > > normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using > > an > > > > > airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to > > > ensure > > > > > adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed). > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just > a > > > link > > > > > to the > > > > > > AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of > > the > > > > > other files > > > > > > on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be > > > > > writing info > > > > > > sheets. lol! > > > > > > > > > > > > I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day > > > doesn't > > > > > do the > > > > > > job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which > > should > > > > > have arrived > > > > > > by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down) > > > > > > > > > > > > OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! > She's > > > > > almost twice > > > > > > as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that > > big > > > > > tank as > > > > > > soon as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q > FOR > > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one > > > less > > > > > > thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no > osmotic > > > > > > problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any > more > > if > > > > the > > > > > > septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the > > > token > > > > > > recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 > > > Gallons > > > > > > when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, > > > like > > > > > > Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in > > > your > > > > > > water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower. > > > > > > > > > > > > When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel > > > Sheet > > > > > > for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a > > > > > > heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial > > Nitrogen > > > > > > Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can > > > avoid > > > > > > it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you > > change > > > > > (and > > > > > > the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the > nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But > > there > > > > > > comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health > of > > > your > > > > > > fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. > This > > is > > > > > > primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can > > otherwise > > > > get > > > > > > rough on your fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only > as > > I > > > > had > > > > > > forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I > > > hate > > > > > > losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least > > > > address > > > > > > the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste > product > > > > being > > > > > > the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using > > Prime > > > > > > (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless > > > > > ammonium > > > > > > which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This > > > should > > > > > > help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat > to > > > > avoid > > > > > > osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in > > changing > > > > out > > > > > > water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further > > reduce > > > > your > > > > > > nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides, > > your > > > > > cycle > > > > > > should be near complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more > > > > > > understandable when you say you added salt while at the same > > > time > > > > > > reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 > > > tsp/G > > > > > of > > > > > > salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would > > have > > > > > > dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know > > > you've > > > > > > since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where > the > > > > salt > > > > > > went each time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has > > > > trouble > > > > > > with > > > > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I > > guess > > > if > > > > > > they both > > > > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait > on > > > the > > > > > > Acriflavin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with > > the > > > > salt > > > > > > level and > > > > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet: > > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that > > gets > > > > the > > > > > > ammonia > > > > > > > and nitrate down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity------------ - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of > > reducing > > > > it) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing > > the > > > > > > PWC. The > > > > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to > > lower > > > it > > > > > > yesterday > > > > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer > > > sitting > > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. > Lucille > > is > > > > the > > > > > > stronger > > > > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia > get > > > > worse, > > > > > > I'll > > > > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and > > nitrite > > > > > > lower. Will > > > > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to > lower > > > > > this?); > > > > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline > > > > hadn't > > > > > > been zero, > > > > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10 > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity----- -- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > > > > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q > > FOR > > > > RAY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended > on > > > > doing > > > > > a > > > > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did > > > want > > > > to > > > > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday > > night, > > > > > which > > > > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any > > of > > > > your > > > > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last, > > around > > > > > noon > > > > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you > > > were > > > > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted > > > accordingly > > > > > (I > > > > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I > wrote > > > > you a > > > > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about > 2 > > > > > seconds > > > > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm > > here > > > > was > > > > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to > > send > > > > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't > > > blame > > > > my > > > > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as > > that's > > > > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to > > me!), > > > > but > > > > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never > > > hurts > > > > > to > > > > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might > > > correct > > > > > any > > > > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the > > problem > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better, > > which > > > > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good > > sign). > > > > On > > > > > > the > > > > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt > > > content > > > > > was > > > > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around > > Noon > > > > that > > > > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you > > > intended > > > > > on > > > > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen > anything > > on > > > > any > > > > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any > PWC's > > > that > > > > > > > day). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit > > confusing > > > > when > > > > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you > > > > REPLACED 1 > > > > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to > 2.08 > > > > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the > > > > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you > > > decided > > > > > not > > > > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the > > salt > > > a > > > > 2 > > > > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made > > > another > > > > > PWC > > > > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at > 11:00 > > > PM > > > > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it > any > > > less > > > > > > than > > > > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no > > > power > > > > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday, > > > reducing > > > > > the > > > > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken > > out > > > > any > > > > > > > more salt than this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can > use > > > the > > > > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is > > > extremely > > > > > > mild > > > > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I > > hope > > > > all > > > > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the > > post > > > > of > > > > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which > you > > > were > > > > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, > especially > > as > > > > it > > > > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see > > some > > > > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus > > Clear > > > if > > > > > it > > > > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro > (which > > > > might > > > > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, > I > > > said > > > > > the > > > > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would > enjoy a > > > day > > > > > of > > > > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but > > the > > > > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with > the > > > > > > PraziPro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no > > other > > > > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at > > least > > > > > > nothing > > > > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal > > > > parasite > > > > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it > wouldn't > > > pay > > > > to > > > > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still > > use > > > > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You > > > will > > > > > have > > > > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia > and > > > > > nitrite > > > > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have > > these > > > > > levels > > > > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these > > > > > > nitrogenous > > > > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become > > to > > > > your > > > > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia > > > (right, > > > > > you > > > > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in > > the > > > > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these > > > > levels > > > > > > > down. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than > > > > PetSmart > > > > > > and > > > > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for > where > > > to > > > > > find > > > > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far > away, > > > but > > > > it > > > > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one > > > nearby, > > > > > but > > > > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website. > > I > > > > was > > > > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores > > > carry > > > > > > that > > > > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the > > last > > > > two > > > > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB > > > actually > > > > > came > > > > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting > there > > > and > > > > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I > > > thought > > > > > that > > > > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with > > > salt. > > > > > I > > > > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before > > > giving > > > > > the > > > > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do > > the > > > > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the > > osmotic > > > > > > stress > > > > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a > > foothold > > > > > again > > > > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE > TO > > > > LOWER > > > > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest > > > anything > > > > > > else > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides > > the > > > > > > > potential for > > > > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of > > > > constipation... > > > > > > > and it's also > > > > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat" > > once > > > a > > > > > week > > > > > > > or so just > > > > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to > digestive > > > > > system > > > > > > > disorders.. > > > > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite > Green > > > for > > > > a > > > > > > few > > > > > > > days which > > > > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do > > the > > > > > > Maracyn > > > > > > > 2? And > > > > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you > add > > > salt > > > > > to > > > > > > > this last > > > > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each > > > PWC? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of > the > > > > rest > > > > > of > > > > > > > the meds. > > > > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly > stressed > > > with > > > > > too > > > > > > > much meds. > > > > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them > a > > > day > > > > of > > > > > > > just fresh > > > > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a > chance > > to > > > > > rest > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good > > > clean > > > > > > fresh > > > > > > > air for > > > > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out > > any > > > > meds > > > > > > > that are > > > > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so > > > only > > > > > the > > > > > > > PWC's will > > > > > > > > slowly reduce the salt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed > > > > on > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by > > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level > is > > > now > > > > > > > 2.08tsp/G) > > > > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: > > > > under .25ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15 > > > > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still > offering > > > > Tetra > > > > > > > flakes, > > > > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for. > > Maybe > > > > the > > > > > > > carbs will > > > > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a > > > chance > > > > to > > > > > > > work. If it > > > > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at > a > > > LFS > > > > > that > > > > > > > might help > > > > > > > > until Monday? > > > > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very > > good. > > > > > > > There's a tiny > > > > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on. > > > > Adding > > > > > > > anything to > > > > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably > > finish > > > > CB > > > > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before > > > coming > > > > > here > > > > > > > to the 20G. > > > > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the > summer > > > when > > > > > the > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank. > > > Since > > > > > > these > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate > > some > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > wax. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but > she > > > may > > > > > be > > > > > > a > > > > > > > bit > > > > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the > > > parasites, > > > > > > > remains to be > > > > > > > > seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final > > check > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > fish before > > > > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank, > > looking > > > at > > > > > the > > > > > > > Christmas > > > > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better > to > > > > even > > > > > > > care about > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water > > > > > retention > > > > > > > due to > > > > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it > is, > > > > > > > hopefully she'll > > > > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by > > > > stunting > > > > > so > > > > > > > it wasn't > > > > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger > > tank > > > > (or > > > > > > > same size > > > > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of > > > > water), > > > > > > she > > > > > > > is growing > > > > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other > > two. > > > > > > > Hopefully, they > > > > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers > > wasn't > > > > > there > > > > > > > and I don't > > > > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the > > > three > > > > > > > goldfish in the > > > > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an > > approximate > > > > age) > > > > > > > What size > > > > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank > they > > > > have > > > > > > > been in from > > > > > > > > the beginning? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed > > > > on > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by > > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of > under > > > > > 3tsp/G) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G) > > > > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25 > > > > and .50ppm; > > > > > > > Nitrite: > > > > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm > > > > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp. > > > since > > > > > the > > > > > > > last PWC. > > > > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any > > > > fungus > > > > > at > > > > > > > bay until I > > > > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro. > > > > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the > > spitting/choking > > > > > thing > > > > > > > occasionally > > > > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when > > > they > > > > > > > arrived about 3 > > > > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven > > and > > > > CB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, > and > > > > will > > > > > go > > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel > file, "DebRs > > > > Salt > > > > > > > Levels" for > > > > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the > water, > > > > since > > > > > > > there isn't > > > > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now. > > > > > > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/ > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water% > > > > > > > 20Chemistry/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time, > > but > > > > > after > > > > > > > exertion > > > > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a > > > shaking > > > > > of > > > > > > > the head, > > > > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a > fish > > > is > > > > > > > eating and > > > > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only > > > she's > > > > > not > > > > > > > eating at > > > > > > > > the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your > > > > nitrogen > > > > > > > cycle nearly > > > > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to > keep > > > the > > > > > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough > > > > > > nitrifying > > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the > > > ammonia/nitrite > > > > so > > > > > > > you should > > > > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do > > > PWC's > > > > to > > > > > > > keep nitrates > > > > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 > teaspoons > > > per > > > > > > > gallon) of > > > > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would > > bring > > > > it > > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear > water, > > > > you'll > > > > > > > bring the > > > > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring > > the > > > > > 0.285% > > > > > > > down to > > > > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the > > new > > > > > > > number). You will > > > > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after > about 5 > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > 3G PWC's, > > > > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After > > > about 5 > > > > > of > > > > > > > those, you > > > > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which > > would > > > no > > > > > > > longer be > > > > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing > > any > > > > > kinds > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > osmoregulatory issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning? > > Or > > > a > > > > > slow > > > > > > > gulping > > > > > > > > motion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed > > > > on > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by > > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water > > > with > > > > > > salt) > > > > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G > > > > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and > > that's > > > > > > > probably what > > > > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: > slightly > > > > > > > over .25ppm; > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's > > > level > > > > > and > > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > > PWC) > > > > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme > > exhaustion > > > > and > > > > > > > that choking > > > > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this > > > afternoon. > > > > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your > lowering > > > the > > > > > > salt > > > > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been > > > > eliminated. > > > > > > > When > > > > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, > and > > > > > > > especially > > > > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another > > > > treatment > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can > > be > > > > > > > reduced. > > > > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's > > > just > > > > a > > > > > > bit > > > > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water > (in > > > the > > > > > form > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to > > start > > > > > > > treating > > > > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble > > > > > adjusting > > > > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often, > > > fish > > > > > will > > > > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections > > > worsen > > > > > and > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > act in the manner you're describing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a > result > > > of > > > > > your > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also > > > > noticed > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test > > > kits > > > > > > (high > > > > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like > > > more > > > > > > > frequent > > > > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you > > > don't > > > > > want > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager" > > > > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing > > > > remainder > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and > > > test > > > > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: > > 10 - > > > > > 15ppm > > > > > > > > (depending on lighting) > > > > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom. > > CB > > > > and > > > > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than > > they > > > > have > > > > > > > been. > > > > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts > > likes > > > > > she's > > > > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking > > > head). > > > > I > > > > > > did > > > > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was > > > doing > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One > > > > pellets > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > the Tetra flakes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some. > > > What > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear > poop, > > > > > pretty > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and > > I'm > > > > not > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > how much more CB can take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 14 of salt) (Day 5 days > > since > > > > > > > Jungles > > > > > > > > Fungus Clear added): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Lucille doing a lot of sitting on the bottom, but > > > seems > > > > > > > > alert. Raven and CB slightly more active today, but > > still > > > > > spent > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > of time on the bottom, except for feeding and a few > > times > > > > when > > > > > > > Raven > > > > > > > > did the chin up tail down resting at the top in the > back > > > > > corner > > > > > > > for a > > > > > > > > bit. > > > > > > > > > - Tank readings 10pm: Ph: 7.5; Ammonia: .25ppm; > > Nitrite: > > > > > > > > 1.00ppm; Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > > > - PWC 11pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------Inserted from different thread for > > > > > continuity- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > > > > You mean I can't just sprinkle some garlic powder > into > > > the > > > > > > > > aquarium? (JK! I'd never do that unless an expert said > > it > > > > was > > > > > > ok. > > > > > > > > The Prazipro is on it's way.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, Lucille has started sitting on the bottom on > > and > > > > off > > > > > > > > with CB and Raven. She's never shown any of the > others' > > > > > symptoms > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > until now. Of course she's mostly white, so I suppose > I > > > > could > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > missed any very small cottony areas, but she's never > had > > > > > clamped > > > > > > > fins > > > > > > > > or seemed tired. Sitting on the bottom is the only > > symptom > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > seeing at the moment, and it's not as much as CB and > > Rave > > > > are > > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > ----------------------End inserted message-------- -- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > > -- > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:15 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By what you're saying about their orientation in the > > > water > > > > > > > > column, it > > > > > > > > > does not sound as if there is a problem with their > > swim > > > > > > > > bladders, as > > > > > > > > > was at first feared. Your description of their feces > > > > though > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > seem to indicate they may have an intestinal > > infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This infection could have a number of causes, > although > > > all > > > > > > > > being a > > > > > > > > > somewhat higher form of a parasitic nature, rather > > than > > > > > > > > bacterial. > > > > > > > > > One cause I believe we can rule out here is the > > > Protozoan > > > > > > > > Hexamita, > > > > > > > > > as, as far as I know, this is not very prevalent in > > > > > Goldfish, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > while these fish can contract Nematodes/Capillaria > > > > > > (roundworms) > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > are most often known to get types of intestinal > > > tapeworms > > > > > when > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > do get such an infection. Note that any such > parasitic > > > > > > > > infections > > > > > > > > > will manifest itself as long stringy white feces, > and > > is > > > > > > > > impossible > > > > > > > > > to differentiate from one to another (except under a > > > > > > > > microscope). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it sounds like the fungus on both of these fish > > is > > > > > > > > clearing up > > > > > > > > > and yes, on the mend. Naturally, you do not want to > > mix > > > > > > > > medications > > > > > > > > > for both the external fungus and the internal > parasite > > > > > issues. > > > > > > > > Since > > > > > > > > > you have only one more day of a full treatment left > to > > > go > > > > > with > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > fungus medication, stick with it -- that should help > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > fungus > > > > > > > > > issue while you wait for the internal parasite > > > medication > > > > > > > > (unless you > > > > > > > > > can find that locally), which you will probably have > > to > > > > have > > > > > > > > shipped > > > > > > > > > to you. While you may need to re-medicate for fungus > > in > > > > > > > > another 4 > > > > > > > > > days, as per the instructions, I believe the salt > > > (alone) > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > prevent a return of this infection, while you > medicate > > > for > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > internal parasite issue. Unless the aquarium is due > > for > > > > its > > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > PWC, keep the residual amount of Fungus Clear in the > > > water > > > > > for > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > additional two days before adding carbon to the > filter > > > to > > > > > > > > remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will need to get Praziquantel > (Bayer's "Droncit") > > > for > > > > > > > > treatment > > > > > > > > > of the internal parasites. This can be bought as > > > Prazipro, > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > solution with Oxibispropanol (an inert solubilizing > > > > agent) - > > > > > - > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > medication is otherwise not very water soluable. If > > you > > > > > can't > > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > Prazipro at any of your LFS's, and its likely that > you > > > > > can't, > > > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > > > Hikari Sales -- < www.hikariusa.com > -- and you can > > buy > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > direct. Its offered in aquarium solution, in 1 oz. @ > > > $2.99 > > > > > > > > (treats > > > > > > > > > 120 gallons), 4 oz. @ $9.79 (treats 480 gallons) and > > 16 > > > > oz.@ > > > > > > > > $32.74 > > > > > > > > > (treats 1920 gallons), plus shipping; these prices > > being > > > > > > > > effective as > > > > > > > > > of 12/10/08. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While you would not need this following packaging, > > I'll > > > > > > > > mention for > > > > > > > > > general information that Prazipro is also offered by > > > > Hikari > > > > > in > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > stronger pond solution starting in 16 oz. bottles > > > (treats > > > > > 3200 > > > > > > > > > gallons), 32 oz. (treats 6400 gallons), 64 oz. > (treats > > > > > 12,800 > > > > > > > > > gallons) and 1 gallon (treats 25,600 gallons) sizes. > > If > > > > one > > > > > > > > can use > > > > > > > > > the 16 ounce size, it would be advantageous to buy > the > > > 16 > > > > > > ounce > > > > > > > > pond > > > > > > > > > solution bottle as its about 33%+ stronger, yet is > > > > similarly > > > > > > > > priced > > > > > > > > > to the aquarium solution bottle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually, a single treatment, lasting from 5 to 7 > days, > > > is > > > > > all > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > needed, but can be repeated between 3 to 5 days if > > > > > necessary. > > > > > > > > One > > > > > > > > > (1) tsp (aquarium strength solution) treats 20 > > gallons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Nematodes (roundworms), BTW, would need the > > > > > > medication > > > > > > > > > Piperazine (Panacur) to effect a cure. Mebendazole > > > (Fluke > > > > > > > > Tabs) or > > > > > > > > > Lavamisole Hydrochloride will also cure it, but not > > > > > Prazipro. > > > > > > > > Both > > > > > > > > > will treat external parasites such as Gill Flukes, > > > though, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > those who may get the pest Planaria (harmless but > > > annoying > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > white worm-like critters crawling on your glass), > > > Prizipro > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > eradicate them as well; although its always best to > > get > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > of its cause. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34871	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Big pictures are better for diagnostic purposes. At least we can enlarge them on our computers to try and see things that a small file would not show. Don't let them Apple commercials dissuade you... Vista does not suck.. lol.. it's just different than XP.. it's the same things people said when moving up to XP from older Windows OS'.... besides, your operating system has nothing to do with picture size. You can set picture size with your camera and then there are secondary software programs that can also resize pictures once you have them on your computer. There is a really simple one available on Powertoys for XP, where you could just right click on a photo and choose "Resize Image" but the XP Powertoys have a disclaimer that they do not work on Vista but this thread http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/itprovistaapps/thread/9adf8 d62-b219-4a85-921b-eceeec1d7e71/ mentions a couple of other free photo tools that do work in Vista and have the simple right-click access. Of course, Windows Paint can always be used to resize images as well and it's already in Vista... well at least in Vista Home Premium which I have on my latest laptop... but I really like the simple right-click access. OK.. back to fish... While looking at your photos, the white specks on your angelfish seem larger than Ick spots to me... Ick looks more like salt or sugar sized granules sprinkled on a fish. Since you can see the fish firsthand, are the spots raised or indented? Are they the size of salt or sugar granules or larger or smaller? The initial injury near the dorsal fin is a lot larger than I initially got the impression it would be and that along with the other "injuries" gave me a quick impression of it being HITH (Hole In The Head) disease. If the specks are actually indentions rather than bumps, then I wonder if HITH or HLLE might not be something to look at since it's more common in larger cichlids (like Angelfish, Oscars, etc.). Maybe one of the disease experts out here can expand the discussion more on this possibility. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OK got the angelfish photo! The pic is in the file section. Its called angelfishwound. Sorry the pic is so big but I just got Windows Vista and everything on it sucks.... I meant I havent learned how to use it properly yet. Anyway the little white dots on his side are attached to him. That area behind his eye, Im not sure what that is. any other specks or dots are dirty glass and overexposure and amatuer photographer. :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34872	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail

I saw three very healthy looking goldies. I assume Lucille is the red cap. What I think you are worrying about is a large vein in the tail, in other words, nothing. They do really need more space, thou, unless they were just staying in that corner. Enid **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34873	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fancy Tail Guppies

Maybe the question would be better put if it were asked as, is it imperative to provide as healthy enough environment as can be provided to ensure the maximum growth of fancy male Guppy's fins. Fancy Guppy's fins will only grow to their maximum length and include their maximum coloration up to what their genes will allow -- but only when the fish are provided with the best of aquarium conditions, including optimum water conditions, good food, sensible stocking ratios and a good regimen of aquarium maintenance. The more adverse these above factors become, the least likely these fish will reach their maximum potential. As per your description of your fish now becoming more than what it seems you might have expected of them, it appears that you must be doing something right in providing the fish with proper conditions. As long as you provide these conditions for proper growth, you may expect the continued growth of their fins if that is what's in their genes. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Leanna" <wild_life_rehab@...> wrote: > > Is it possable to provide an environment healthy anuf to increase the > langth and color of a fancy guppie males tail?? > > i have 2 males and 1 female, and i seware that my males are geting > longer fins, and their bodys more defind. > > is it all in my head? > > thanks > > anna >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34874	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

The white specks on him did have a consistency of a sugar granuale so my first impression was Ick. The injury behind his eye is a missing scale. Any other spots are just overexposure like the one in front of his eye. There is really nothing there. After reading the link that you posted and searching online, I am even more unsure as what to do. Metronidazole is not easy to obtain as no LFS have it by me. I didnt even waste my time with Petco/Petsmart etc. My vet hospital doesn't have the expertise to treat fish. BTJs wanted to sell me the same tank buddies I already have! To me it seems to be a try anything disease or a sit and wait disease? So far he is eating and not shying away. When I open the hood he is waiting for food. Any ideas for the next step? > > OK.. back to fish... > > While looking at your photos, the white specks on your angelfish seem larger > than Ick spots to me... Ick looks more like salt or sugar sized granules > sprinkled on a fish. Since you can see the fish firsthand, are the spots > raised or indented? Are they the size of salt or sugar granules or larger > or smaller? The initial injury near the dorsal fin is a lot larger than I > initially got the impression it would be and that along with the other > "injuries" gave me a quick impression of it being HITH (Hole In The Head) > disease. If the specks are actually indentions rather than bumps, then I > wonder if HITH or HLLE might not be something to look at since it's more > common in larger cichlids (like Angelfish, Oscars, etc.). Maybe one of the > disease experts out here can expand the discussion more on this possibility. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34875	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Fancy Tail Guppies

The only thing I would add is that it would have been better to have all males or have females with a 2 female to 1 male ration... otherwise your single female will be constantly pursued by the two males for mating and she'll have a tough life. I remember seeing in another post that you only have a 10G tank and you have other fish.. I think 5 neon's and a cory. If it's one of the smallest cory species, then your tank is fully stocked so you will need a second tank for any baby guppies if you are going to try and save any. If you are not planning on trying to save the baby guppies, then you should consider getting all male guppies if your female ever passes. The males are usually prettier anyhow. Do you know what species your cory is? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 7:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fancy Tail Guppies Maybe the question would be better put if it were asked as, is it imperative to provide as healthy enough environment as can be provided to ensure the maximum growth of fancy male Guppy's fins. Fancy Guppy's fins will only grow to their maximum length and include their maximum coloration up to what their genes will allow -- but only when the fish are provided with the best of aquarium conditions, including optimum water conditions, good food, sensible stocking ratios and a good regimen of aquarium maintenance. The more adverse these above factors become, the least likely these fish will reach their maximum potential. As per your description of your fish now becoming more than what it seems you might have expected of them, it appears that you must be doing something right in providing the fish with proper conditions. As long as you provide these conditions for proper growth, you may expect the continued growth of their fins if that is what's in their genes. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Leanna" <wild_life_rehab@...> wrote: > > Is it possable to provide an environment healthy anuf to increase the > langth and color of a fancy guppie males tail?? > > i have 2 males and 1 female, and i seware that my males are geting > longer fins, and their bodys more defind. > > is it all in my head? > > thanks > > anna >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34876	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Well, if the spots are raised and not concave (holes like the injury), then it's likely not HITH... well at least not the spots. Still not sure of the initial injury. If you do have a case of Ich, at least the fish is already quarantined so treating it will be easier. If it is Ich, then your situation further proves one of the theories that Ich is in many aquariums and just sits dormant waiting for a stressed or sick fish to attack. If I remember correctly, you haven't added any new fish or plants... except for the injury-suspect new plastic plants... so it didn't come in on them. Hopefully, the medicine they sold you for Ich treatment will work. Do you know what is in it? I don't remember the name of it and it's not listed in this email thread but it looks like the "Original Message" was truncated (chopped off). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: OK got the angelfish photo! The white specks on him did have a consistency of a sugar granuale so my first impression was Ick. The injury behind his eye is a missing scale. Any other spots are just overexposure like the one in front of his eye. There is really nothing there. After reading the link that you posted and searching online, I am even more unsure as what to do. Metronidazole is not easy to obtain as no LFS have it by me. I didnt even waste my time with Petco/Petsmart etc. My vet hospital doesn't have the expertise to treat fish. BTJs wanted to sell me the same tank buddies I already have! To me it seems to be a try anything disease or a sit and wait disease? So far he is eating and not shying away. When I open the hood he is waiting for food. Any ideas for the next step? > > OK.. back to fish... > > While looking at your photos, the white specks on your angelfish seem larger > than Ick spots to me... Ick looks more like salt or sugar sized granules > sprinkled on a fish. Since you can see the fish firsthand, are the spots > raised or indented? Are they the size of salt or sugar granules or larger > or smaller? The initial injury near the dorsal fin is a lot larger than I > initially got the impression it would be and that along with the other > "injuries" gave me a quick impression of it being HITH (Hole In The Head) > disease. If the specks are actually indentions rather than bumps, then I > wonder if HITH or HLLE might not be something to look at since it's more > common in larger cichlids (like Angelfish, Oscars, etc.). Maybe one of the > disease experts out here can expand the discussion more on this possibility. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > Messages in this topic

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34877	From: Darlene	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Metronidazole is not easy to obtain you would have to get it from your local vet after getting a prescription from a vet who treats fish.it comes in several form, injectable, liquid, or pills. Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hi Im New

I just replied to your other post but wanted to expand here. Do you have your own water test kit or are you relying on the pet store or LFS (local fish store) to test your water? In either case, give us the actual numbers on the test results so we can better help you. How long has your tank been set up? Are you a new fish keeper or just new to this group? If a new fish keeper, I would strongly suggest you take one or both of the free online fish keeping tutorials that I have listed on my blog. Go to my blog, then to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and you'll see the tutorials listed near the top of that page. These tutorials will walk you through all of the basics, including the nitrogen cycle which is very important to learn/understand. Also, while on the A to Z page, read over my article on Filter Maintenance And Cleaning as there are some mistakes pointed out in that article that cause a lot of newbie's many problems with getting the nitrogen cycle established in their aquariums. You will also see articles on "Cycling With Fish", which may be what you are stuck with doing and also on "Fishless Cycling" which is the better way to go. Since you've already added the new fish to your tank (better to quarantine them in the future), you should also ask your fish store for a handful of gravel from one of their healthy tanks.. preferably the one you got your fish from... and put this gravel in a piece of webbing or nylon and put it in your filter reservoir. This will go a long way in getting your nitrogen cycle established. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leanna Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi Im New Hello, im leanna(call me Anna) i am new to fish tanks and just set up my first(unless you count the time when i was 3) its a 10gallon freshwater tank, i have a asin theam decor. My fish are 2 male fancy guppys 1 pregnet female fancy guppy 5 neon's and one cory cat. the tetras and cory cat are new today. all water tests say my water is good, just SLIGHTLY high on nitrates and i mean barly high. my guppys are happy as can be(the pregnit female should be proof of that) but the tetras and cory cat are my second bach (thank goodness for fishstore garentees) my past batch all died a slow death and i dont know y. none of the petstore staff have a clue, my water comes out clean and my guppys are fantastic... i was hoping you mite have a clue as to what did in my dearly departed fish. thanks for all and any inpoot Leanna(Anna)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34879	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Actually, you can buy food with it already in the food.. Metro-Med's. http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=9&catId=5 https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html Even the Jungle AntiParasite Medicated Food contains Metro. http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html These are available in the U.S.... although I'm not sure how available they are in other countries but I think the Jungle AntiParasite and Jungle Antibacterial foods are more widely available even in areas that are strict about providing the raw ingredients at retail. It's funny that here in the States, one can walk into PetsMart and walk out with a wide array of antibiotics right off the shelf in the fish section where they could not buy these meds without a doctors visit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: OK got the angelfish photo! Metronidazole is not easy to obtain you would have to get it from your local vet after getting a prescription from a vet who treats fish.it comes in several form, injectable, liquid, or pills. Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34880	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

It's easy to obtain online.just order overnight express delivery. I believe it is a main ingredient in some other meds that are more available locally, maybe Steve or Ray or Lenny know. I just use the straight med and I purchase online. It's one of the only meds I keep on hand all the time. I wait until the online dealers have free shipping every 6 months or so, and then I stock up on food and replenish any filter pads, meds, algae scrapers or other items I may need. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: OK got the angelfish photo! Metronidazole is not easy to obtain you would have to get it from your local vet after getting a prescription from a vet who treats fish.it comes in several form, injectable, liquid, or pills. Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34881	From: Darlene	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Actually, you can buy food with it already in the food.. Metro-Med's. http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=9&catId=5 https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html Even the Jungle AntiParasite Medicated Food contains Metro. http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html These are available in the U.S.... although I'm not sure how available they are in other countries but I think the Jungle AntiParasite and Jungle Antibacterial foods are more widely available even in areas that are strict about providing the raw ingredients at retail. It's funny that here in the States, one can walk into PetsMart and walk out with a wide array of antibiotics right off the shelf in the fish section where they could not buy these meds without a doctors visit. ** will definitely be visiting an American Wal Mart in the near future LOLOL will make a list of everything i would like to get that i cannot get up here :)) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34882	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Maybe you need to hook up with someone down here. Americans are constantly going up to Canada to get various human meds that are cheaper up there due to the Canadian gov'ment subsidies and you need to come down here for fish meds that are cheaper down here because the Canadian gov'ment overtaxes them up there... so you both could arrange to exchange the meds at the border and save some time and trouble... would that make you a drug dealer? Just imagine the look on the DEA agents faces when their "big bust" results in two people exchanging a bottle of Viagara for some Jungle medicated fish food and an API Master Test Kit. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: OK got the angelfish photo! Actually, you can buy food with it already in the food.. Metro-Med's. http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=9&catId=5 <http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=9&catId=5> https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html <https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html> Even the Jungle AntiParasite Medicated Food contains Metro. http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html <http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html> These are available in the U.S.... although I'm not sure how available they are in other countries but I think the Jungle AntiParasite and Jungle Antibacterial foods are more widely available even in areas that are strict about providing the raw ingredients at retail. It's funny that here in the States, one can walk into PetsMart and walk out with a wide array of antibiotics right off the shelf in the fish section where they could not buy these meds without a doctors visit. ** will definitely be visiting an American Wal Mart in the near future LOLOL will make a list of everything i would like to get that i cannot get up here :)) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34883	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

How do I explain that in prison LOL! > Maybe you need to hook up with someone down here. Americans are constantly > going up to Canada to get various human meds that are cheaper up there due > to the Canadian gov'ment subsidies and you need to come down here for fish > meds that are cheaper down here because the Canadian gov'ment overtaxes them > up there... so you both could arrange to exchange the meds at the border and > save some time and trouble... would that make you a drug dealer? Just > imagine the look on the DEA agents faces when their "big bust" results in > two people exchanging a bottle of Viagara for some Jungle medicated fish > food and an API Master Test Kit. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Darlene > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: OK got the angelfish photo! > > Actually, you can buy food with it already in the food.. Metro- Med's. > > http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php? productId=9&catId=5 > <http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php? productId=9&catId=5> > > https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html > <https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html> > > Even the Jungle AntiParasite Medicated Food contains Metro. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html> > > These are available in the U.S.... although I'm not sure how available they > are in other countries but I think the Jungle AntiParasite and Jungle > Antibacterial foods are more widely available even in areas that are strict > about providing the raw ingredients at retail. It's funny that here in the > States, one can walk into PetsMart and walk out with a wide array of > antibiotics right off the shelf in the fish section where they could not buy > these meds without a doctors visit. > > ** will definitely be visiting an American Wal Mart in the near future LOLOL > will make a list of everything i would like to get that i cannot get up here > :)) > > Darlene > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34884	From: Darlene	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: was OK got the angelfish photo! now supplies :)

... would that make you a drug dealer? Just imagine the look on the DEA agents faces when their "big bust" results in two people exchanging a bottle of Viagara for some Jungle medicated fish food and an API Master Test Kit. LOL i can just picture it !!! but i don't need the API master test kit since i bought the API Nitrate kit and the Hagen KH/GH test kit yesterday :) the meds i can get when i go to the states .......... all i have to do know is my baseline water test on my tap water to see what that is ..... probably very hard water here :) want to read the info again before i do it ...... i posted my results for friday last night ........... with the Nitrates and GH/KH results Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34885	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail

Yeah, they were staying in that corner because I had just fed them and most of the food drops there. But looking at Lucille coming through the smaller arch in the bridge tells me they'll be needing that bigger aquarium sooner rather than later. CB (all orange) is only active like that at meal times, but she wasn't eating or doing anything for a few days, so it's a big improvement. The red is on the tips of Lucille's tail and was not there before about 5(?) days ago. It does look like she may be getting some orange along the lower edge of her tail, but the streaks on the tips are definitely blood red. I took two other videos at the same time. I don't know if you can see anything better from them. http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=65L664QY4VZM5ALETGXZVP OR http://tinyurl.com/goldfish1 AND http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=XYD3QV66VX4M5ALETGXZVP OR http://tinyurl.com/goldfish2 DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gwydryn@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lucille's Tail I saw three very healthy looking goldies. I assume Lucille is the red cap. What I think you are worrying about is a large vein in the tail, in other words, nothing. They do really need more space, thou, unless they were just staying in that corner. Enid **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34886	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

So to treat HITH disease, I dont need to get Metronidazole just an anti-parisite antibiotic. Or one that contains Metro? Or do they all contain Metro? I was on the Jungle labs site and I couldnt see if their meds contained Metronidazole. I am going to Petsmart to pick up some Jungle Food. Before I buy it, I have noticed this morning that the angel does not have an appetite any more. would buying the food sorta be null and void? The Animal ER by me said to bring him in so they can be sure its HITH ...... Office visit to the ER is $75... They also dont specialize in fish LOL!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: > > Actually, you can buy food with it already in the food.. Metro- Med's. > > http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php? productId=9&catId=5 > > https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html > > Even the Jungle AntiParasite Medicated Food contains Metro. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html > > These are available in the U.S.... although I'm not sure how available they > are in other countries but I think the Jungle AntiParasite and Jungle > Antibacterial foods are more widely available even in areas that are strict > about providing the raw ingredients at retail. It's funny that here in the > States, one can walk into PetsMart and walk out with a wide array of > antibiotics right off the shelf in the fish section where they could not buy > these meds without a doctors visit. > > ** will definitely be visiting an American Wal Mart in the near future LOLOL > will make a list of everything i would like to get that i cannot get up here :)) > > Darlene > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34887	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail

In a message dated 12/27/2008 10:39:45 A.M. Central Standard Time, menagerie_manager@... writes: Yeah, they were staying in that corner because I had just fed them and most of the food drops there. But looking at Lucille coming through the smaller arch in the bridge tells me they'll be needing that bigger aquarium sooner rather than later. CB (all orange) is only active like that at meal times, but she wasn't eating or doing anything for a few days, so it's a big improvement. The red is on the tips of Lucille's tail and was not there before about 5(?) days ago. It does look like she may be getting some orange along the lower edge of her tail, but the streaks on the tips are definitely blood red. I took two other videos at the same time. I don't know if you can see anything better from them. Ok, I looked real good, all I can think of is the length of her tail and that reddish ( brownish?) plastic plant in the foreground. Way back when I kept goldfish in aquariums I had similar damage done to what we used to call veiltail goldfish from rubbing that long train on plastic plants. Try taking out that plant (they can use the swimming room) or moving it to a corner where it's unlikely to get rubbed on. Enid **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34888	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: What is this Unknown Organism

Regarding Unknown Organism Characteristics: The organism is visible with out a microscope. It appears to be a ciliate protozoan. It has only oral cilia. Its base is attached to objects with strands. These strands though barely visible under a microscope appear to possibly have a strong adhesive. It is not clear as to if this is a colonial or single organism. The feeding bodies are attached to one another in dense clusters at the tips of the long branched stalks. The stalks are very durable and do not break easily. The feeding bodies are able to retract their cilia when disturbed but do not appear to retract into the stalk. The feeding bodies when disturbed tend to retract their cilia at the same moment. The branched stalk does not move. It May feed on bacteria. Other food is unknown. Location: Mendocino California, Freshwater pond, attached to shell of a living freshwater snail (possible symbiotic relationship), water temperature (≈) 40˚F Date Found: 12/22/08 I posted a few photos of this organism to this group

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34889	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: What is this Unknown Organism

http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/ma g/art97b/kenj1.html (click the link to remove the background for easier reading). A snip from above page.... "...The tentacles are ciliated - that is, they have many fine hairs along their surface, which undulate in unison, creating currents in the water to draw algae and protozoan's (small animals) into their mouth. The tentacles can be withdrawn and retracted when the animal is not feeding..." sounds a lot like what you wrote. Unfortunately, the three actual images aren't showing up on the above page but from the description, it sure sounds the same. The above page came from a link on this page "A Simple Guide To Small And Microscopic Pond Life" http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html The third picture you uploaded looks like a broccoli stalk with the floret on the top but I Googled 'microscopic pond life looks like broccoli' but nothing definitive came up. Then I did a Google Image search of Plumatella repens and found many other pages with images but no two seem to look alike so maybe you should replicate that search and browse the images. The first link below has some very good photos but still looks different than yours. http://www.bryozoans.nl/pictures/en/plumatella_repens.html http://www.bryozoans.nl/soorten/en/plumatella_repens.html http://webs.lander.edu/rsfox/invertebrates/plumatella.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gambusiaaffinis Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What is this Unknown Organism Regarding Unknown Organism Characteristics: The organism is visible with out a microscope. It appears to be a ciliate protozoan. It has only oral cilia. Its base is attached to objects with strands. These strands though barely visible under a microscope appear to possibly have a strong adhesive. It is not clear as to if this is a colonial or single organism. The feeding bodies are attached to one another in dense clusters at the tips of the long branched stalks. The stalks are very durable and do not break easily. The feeding bodies are able to retract their cilia when disturbed but do not appear to retract into the stalk. The feeding bodies when disturbed tend to retract their cilia at the same moment. The branched stalk does not move. It May feed on bacteria. Other food is unknown. Location: Mendocino California, Freshwater pond, attached to shell of a living freshwater snail (possible symbiotic relationship), water temperature (≈) 40˚F Date Found: 12/22/08 I posted a few photos of this organism to this group

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34890	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail

When goldfish develop blood streaks in their fins, it normally starts at the base of the fin, not at the tips. I did see some color on the upper lobes of Lucille's caudal, but I could not determine, from the video, if they were blood streaks or if it was just color. I'd lean toward the color rather than blood streaks at this time. Go to http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Minnow9.jpg for a photo of an oranda with blood streaks in the caudal. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lucille's Tail > > Yeah, they were staying in that corner because I had just fed them and > most of the food drops there. But looking at Lucille coming through the > smaller arch in the bridge tells me they'll be needing that bigger aquarium > sooner rather than later. > > CB (all orange) is only active like that at meal times, but she wasn't > eating or doing anything for a few days, so it's a big improvement. > > The red is on the tips of Lucille's tail and was not there before about > 5(?) days ago. It does look like she may be getting some orange along the > lower edge of her tail, but the streaks on the tips are definitely blood > red. I took two other videos at the same time. I don't know if you can see > anything better from them. > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=65L664QY4VZM5ALETGXZVP > OR > http://tinyurl.com/goldfish1 > > AND > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=XYD3QV66VX4M5ALETGXZVP > OR > http://tinyurl.com/goldfish2 > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Gwydryn@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:49 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lucille's Tail > > > I saw three very healthy looking goldies. I assume Lucille is the red cap. > What I think you are worrying about is a large vein in the tail, in other > words, nothing. They do really need more space, thou, unless they were just > staying in that corner. > Enid > **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, > Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34891	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: What is this Unknown Organism

Found this picture after sending my last email. Shows them non-microscopic in a large colony living on what looks like a piece of wood. http://www.biopix.dk/Temp/Plumatella%20repens%2000007.jpg Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gambusiaaffinis Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What is this Unknown Organism Regarding Unknown Organism Characteristics: The organism is visible with out a microscope. It appears to be a ciliate protozoan. It has only oral cilia. Its base is attached to objects with strands. These strands though barely visible under a microscope appear to possibly have a strong adhesive. It is not clear as to if this is a colonial or single organism. The feeding bodies are attached to one another in dense clusters at the tips of the long branched stalks. The stalks are very durable and do not break easily. The feeding bodies are able to retract their cilia when disturbed but do not appear to retract into the stalk. The feeding bodies when disturbed tend to retract their cilia at the same moment. The branched stalk does not move. It May feed on bacteria. Other food is unknown. Location: Mendocino California, Freshwater pond, attached to shell of a living freshwater snail (possible symbiotic relationship), water temperature (≈) 40˚F Date Found: 12/22/08 I posted a few photos of this organism to this group

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

I think the DEA would be too embarrassed to actually arrest anyone when they see their "big bust" and sting operation was for some fish meds and a Master Test Kit... and an old guy needing the little blue pill. LOL But... if you did go to prison, you can embellish the story about how you were smuggling 2,000 kilos of the drug du jour to impress your cellmates. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: OK got the angelfish photo! How do I explain that in prison LOL! > Maybe you need to hook up with someone down here. Americans are constantly > going up to Canada to get various human meds that are cheaper up there due > to the Canadian gov'ment subsidies and you need to come down here for fish > meds that are cheaper down here because the Canadian gov'ment overtaxes them > up there... so you both could arrange to exchange the meds at the border and > save some time and trouble... would that make you a drug dealer? Just > imagine the look on the DEA agents faces when their "big bust" results in > two people exchanging a bottle of Viagara for some Jungle medicated fish > food and an API Master Test Kit. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Darlene > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: OK got the angelfish photo! > > Actually, you can buy food with it already in the food.. Metro- Med's. > > http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php? > <http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?> productId=9&catId=5 > <http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php? > <http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?> productId=9&catId=5> > > https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html > <https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html> > <https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html > <https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html> > > > Even the Jungle AntiParasite Medicated Food contains Metro. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html> > <http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html> > > > These are available in the U.S.... although I'm not sure how available they > are in other countries but I think the Jungle AntiParasite and Jungle > Antibacterial foods are more widely available even in areas that are strict > about providing the raw ingredients at retail. It's funny that here in the > States, one can walk into PetsMart and walk out with a wide array of > antibiotics right off the shelf in the fish section where they could not buy > these meds without a doctors visit. > > ** will definitely be visiting an American Wal Mart in the near future LOLOL > will make a list of everything i would like to get that i cannot get up here > :)) > > Darlene > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

This page covers the ingredients in most commonly found medicated fish foods in the U.S. http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html Metro is mostly in antiparasitic foods but also in some antibacterial foods and is one of the ingredients in the Jungle AntiParasite food, as you'll see on the above page.... but if the fish isn't eating, then you should probably look at other options. What about the fish poop? Have you noticed anything different about it? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: OK got the angelfish photo! So to treat HITH disease, I dont need to get Metronidazole just an anti-parisite antibiotic. Or one that contains Metro? Or do they all contain Metro? I was on the Jungle labs site and I couldnt see if their meds contained Metronidazole. I am going to Petsmart to pick up some Jungle Food. Before I buy it, I have noticed this morning that the angel does not have an appetite any more. would buying the food sorta be null and void? The Animal ER by me said to bring him in so they can be sure its HITH ...... Office visit to the ER is $75... They also dont specialize in fish LOL!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: > > Actually, you can buy food with it already in the food.. Metro- Med's. > > http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php? > <http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?> productId=9&catId=5 > > https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html > <https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html> > > Even the Jungle AntiParasite Medicated Food contains Metro. > > http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html> > > These are available in the U.S.... although I'm not sure how available they > are in other countries but I think the Jungle AntiParasite and Jungle > Antibacterial foods are more widely available even in areas that are strict > about providing the raw ingredients at retail. It's funny that here in the > States, one can walk into PetsMart and walk out with a wide array of > antibiotics right off the shelf in the fish section where they could not buy > these meds without a doctors visit. > > ** will definitely be visiting an American Wal Mart in the near future LOLOL > will make a list of everything i would like to get that i cannot get up here :)) > > Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34894	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Had the opportunity to check out the pics in your file. Would first like to mention that I did not expect the wound to be quite so large, although it seems to be under control as far as not getting infected. The second area I noticed was that large mark behind the eye, which you've clarified as being a missing scale (or scales), and therefore would seem not to be of concern. There is some random spotting here and there throughout, but without very much definition its impossible for me to determine if they're on the fish or on the glass. Just as Lenny asks, I too was curious as to whether this appeared on the fish, as salt-like granuals -- which you've confimed. This being the case, it would seem as though the fish has contracted Ich. Two questions of mine here are; what is the temperature in the main tank? And, what is the temperature in the quarantine/hospital tank? I realize this wound would be causing the fish some stress, but this should not drop his immunity system to the point where he'd get Ich. I'll cover more on this in the next post. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > The pic is in the file section. Its called angelfishwound. Sorry the > pic is so big but I just got Windows Vista and everything on it > sucks.... I meant I havent learned how to use it properly yet. > > > Anyway the little white dots on his side are attached to him. That area > behind his eye, Im not sure what that is. any other specks or dots are > dirty glass and overexposure and amatuer photographer. :) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34895	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail

Boy... that poor goldfish (in the picture that \\Steve// linked to) has been through the ringer. Looks like dropsy might be setting in also from the reflections off the side scales. DebR, I'm like \\Steve//. I don't see any major concern with your fish other than the little gold (mostly orange) one seems to have a really short caudal (tail) fin... but that could be a bred-in trait. I'm not sure how bad they looked when you got them but they definitely seem to be in much better shape today. Good job! Of course, if you don't want to have to do constant/daily PWC's, that bigger tank is still needed... especially as they seem to be growing again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lucille's Tail When goldfish develop blood streaks in their fins, it normally starts at the base of the fin, not at the tips. I did see some color on the upper lobes of Lucille's caudal, but I could not determine, from the video, if they were blood streaks or if it was just color. I'd lean toward the color rather than blood streaks at this time. Go to http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Minnow9.jpg <http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Minnow9.jpg> for a photo of an oranda with blood streaks in the caudal. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lucille's Tail > > Yeah, they were staying in that corner because I had just fed them and > most of the food drops there. But looking at Lucille coming through > the smaller arch in the bridge tells me they'll be needing that bigger > aquarium sooner rather than later. > > CB (all orange) is only active like that at meal times, but she wasn't > eating or doing anything for a few days, so it's a big improvement. > > The red is on the tips of Lucille's tail and was not there before > about > 5(?) days ago. It does look like she may be getting some orange along > the lower edge of her tail, but the streaks on the tips are definitely > blood red. I took two other videos at the same time. I don't know if > you can see anything better from them. > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=65L664QY4VZM5ALETGXZVP > <http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=65L664QY4VZM5ALETGXZVP> > OR > http://tinyurl.com/goldfish1 <http://tinyurl.com/goldfish1> > > AND > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=XYD3QV66VX4M5ALETGXZVP > <http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=XYD3QV66VX4M5ALETGXZVP> > OR > http://tinyurl.com/goldfish2 <http://tinyurl.com/goldfish2> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Gwydryn@... <mailto:Gwydryn%40aol.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:49 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lucille's Tail > > > I saw three very healthy looking goldies. I assume Lucille is the red cap. > What I think you are worrying about is a large vein in the tail, in > other words, nothing. They do really need more space, thou, unless > they were just staying in that corner. > Enid

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34896	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?

Glad to see you've added a nightlight, and just like a tank cover you may not need it 364 days out of the year -- but it only takes that one day that a fish may decide to jump or may get startled by something (another fish?) that may have bumped into it during the middle of the night, that it becomes well worth the investment to have. BTW, I trust you have a full hood (?). If so, and I wouldn't know what kind you have, this type of wound almost looks like it may have been received in the course of the fish jumping clear of the water and hitting something above the water line. Is there anything in this structure of your reflector which could have caused this? Are you positive your mini Silver Dollar is not a Piranha (the wound is large enough for this possibility)? Keep an eye on that wound and report to us anything that may look worse to you at any time. From what you're saying, it does seem as though its on the mend, even if it might take a week or more to heal. Getting back to the Ich, again I would like to know if there was much difference between the two tanks' temperatures, and just what those temperatures were. I do notice you've added one Tank Buddy for Ich, but unless one knows that these Tank Buddy's are specifically for the use of Ich and not just that you've used a Tank Buddy for Ich, there is no way for any of us trying to offer you advice unless you specify exactly which Tank Buddy's you've used. Many of us may not be aware that Jungle Labs offers Fungus Clear Tank Buddy, Parasite Clear Tank Buddy Ich Clear Tank Buddy and even a non-medication Ammonia Clear Tank Buddy tablet (maybe others, too?). I would assume, or at least hope you used Ich Clear Tank Buddy's (Victoria Green and Acriflavin), but I do not know this for sure. If you used Parasite Clear Tank Buddy, you should know that even though Ich is a parasite, this medication is not effective against Ich. Too, Ich Clear Tank Buddy (Victoria Green & Acriflavin) would not be my choice for medication against Ich, but I do hope you have success with it (again -- keep us posted on this). Actually, my choice as treatment against Ich is the tried and true, extremely successful and safe heat and salt treatment which I've never heard reported as failing. We here will be more than willing to offer you any advice needed as your requirements for any come up, and could have advised you of this method had you mentioned your fish's plight. Even the best of LFS (local fish stores) will offer you some kind of medication, as a sale as part of what they're in business for, as to not sell you something (even though it may help) would be going against what they're primary reason for existing is -- to make money. It would not be in their best interest to advise hobbyists of ways to deal with their fish if it entailed not buying something for the purpose. As stated, hopefully this Victoria Green will help in eliminating the Ich, if this is what you used. If/when you decide on going just with salt, after removing the medication (via PWC's and carbon in the filter), if this treatment is not successful, raise the temperature up to at least 86 o F (preferably with increased aeration, if possible) and keep it there until 3 days after you see no more signs of Ich. This could take on the average of up to about 10 days, sometimes sooner. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > Another Update > > I have added a nightlight to the fish room where it gives off a deep > blue glow. Its dark enough not to bother my hermit crabs but light > enough to where I can make out the object in the tank. > > The angelfishs wound has gotten bigger but it doesnt look likes its > spreading now its just turned all white (the wound not the fish LOL) > I think all of the infection is gone and the wound is healing and the > swelling has gone down....maybe.. I hope! > > After seven days in a hospital tank with a tablespoon of salt and > 5ml/day of Melafix, he seems to have real tiny white spots on him > like Ich. I didnt take a chance so I did a 25% water change and added > one Tank Buddy for Ich. I though maybe a secondary infection??? Thats > where I am at as of last night (the 25th). I dont want to over treat > him so i might go with another tank buddy then do a complete water > change and go back to just salt. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Alright, from this we can gather that this is definitely no marking > > or color pattern indication of any sort. It would appear to be a > > wound, probably suffered when the fish ran into an unexpected > foreign > > object (plastic rock or plant) you recently placed in the tank -- > not > > that the fish remembered the bottom as being previously devoid of > > these objects previously though). A panicked fish in the dark can > be > > expected to run into such objects no matter how familiar they are > > with their tank; for this reason, you need to either limited such > > objects or see to the safety of them. Some hobbyists employ a > night > > light for their aquariums, just for this purpose, would would help > > ensure the prevention of such "collisions," as well as defusing any > > cause for panic in the dark in the first place. > > > > While at least some of your fish may be aggressive, or at least > known > > to have the possibility of being aggressive, its doubtful that this > > wound was caused by any other of your fish, unless some of your > fish > > were of more of a carnivorus nature (Piranha's, for example) which > > may take a piece out of the flesh. Most other > aggressive "community - > > type" fish will usually attack other fishes' fins only, regardless > of > > which aggressive community fish are involved. Very rarely, but > still > > possible, is an attack to another fish's eye, but this is rare and > > may been primarily (though rarely) seen in conspecifics of the > > species involved. i.e., other Angelfish. We are not talking about > > Lake Malawi scale-eaters or eye-snatchers here, and its even > doubtful > > that Blue Gourami's would have the dentition to take a check out of > > another fish. > > > > If you can get a pic, all well and good; if you can't don't worry > > about it. Your description of the wound's location will suffice. > > The main thing now is to treat this wound to avoid infection. Salt > > addition will help prevent infection as well as promote a heavier > > slime coat on the fish, creating a barrier to infection. Your mini > > Silver Dollar (are you sure he's not a mini Piranha in disguise -- > > LOL) will prevent you from adding much more than 1 Tbs of salt per > 5 > > Gallons, but I'd recommend adding that after doing a 25% PWC to > > ensure cleaner water conditions. > > > > A pencil point chunk such as this should heal in short time. Keep > an > > eye on it for any complications and report back to us if you see > > anything suspicious. There are a number of routes we can take with > > some mild medications if need be, but I don't see them as being > > necessary, at least not at this time. You should think about a > small > > night light (lamp with a mini refigerator bulb, perhaps, I think > > they're like 7.5 Watts) or something similar nearby to use after > > lights out. Ray > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34897	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: What is this Unknown Organism

Sounds very curious. I suggest posting to the Amateur_Microscopy and MicroscopeHobby lists at yahoo groups. Someone there is likely to ahve atleast a ball park idea what it is. Sounsd fairly common; I'm just not an expert on that yet. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "gambusiaaffinis" <gambusiaaffinis@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] What is this Unknown Organism Regarding Unknown Organism Characteristics: The organism is visible with out a microscope. It appears to be a ciliate protozoan. It has only oral cilia. Its base is attached to objects with strands. These strands though barely visible under a microscope appear to possibly have a strong adhesive. It is not clear as to if this is a colonial or single organism. The feeding bodies are attached to one another in dense clusters at the tips of the long branched stalks. The stalks are very durable and do not break easily. The feeding bodies are able to retract their cilia when disturbed but do not appear to retract into the stalk. The feeding bodies when disturbed tend to retract their cilia at the same moment. The branched stalk does not move. It May feed on bacteria. Other food is unknown. Location: Mendocino California, Freshwater pond, attached to shell of a living freshwater snail (possible symbiotic relationship), water temperature (≈) 40˚F Date Found: 12/22/08 I posted a few photos of this organism to this group ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34898	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Your confirmation that the small white spots on this fish look more like salt or sugar sized granules sprinkled on the fish indicate that the fish indedd does have Ich -- and you should consider proceeding as per suggestions I outlined in my previous post. The odd-shaped wound near the dorsal fin is definitely not HITH (Hole-In-The Head) disease. Without yet any info coming forth as to whether the area of undetermined origin behind the eye is raised or indented, it's hard to say exactly what that is (in one post, you mentioned it was an area of missing scales). If this (missing scales) turns out to be the cause for this blemish, this should heal up in short time as well, and may have been incurred at the same time as the larger wound. I would like to add that while many Cichlids are prone to contracting externally manifested HITH disease, I can't say I've ever seen an Angelfish contract this malady in my lifetime. More noted for getting HITH (external) are Discus and a number of particular species related to what was once known broadly as the Cichlasoma Clade -- which would include its close relations, Oscar's and Uaru's. Its just possible that I may have been fortunate in not ever seeing HITH in Angelfish, but if they do contract it, I'd have to say its rare. Angels will, however, contract internal parasite disease (Hexamita), which early on was thought to be associated with HITH diease, but further studies of any connection between the two have dispursed this theory. At this time, and with the descriptions noted here as best as can be seen, I see no reason for treating this fish for HITH, and no reason to continue searching for medications for treating HITH, including Metronidazole -- which, if you live within the confines of the United States (or have access to the LFS's), can be readily obtained if needed. SeaChem's Metronidazole (powdered) is just that, as is primarily also Jungle Laboratory's Internal Parasite Guard, Jungle Lab's Hole-in-the-Head Guard, Thomas Laboratory's Fish-Zole, Aquatrol's Metrozol, Aquarium Pharmaceutical's General Cure, Hikari's Metro+ and the Jungle Lab's Parasite Clear Tank Buddies. Jungle Labs also offers a medicated food, Anti-Parasite Medicated Fish Food, with Metronidazole as the main medication as the active ingredient. These medications do not seem necessary in your case, however. The next step? Expect to treat for Ich, posibly via the heat treatment as already outlined. Continue to keep an eye on these injuries -- NOTE -- HITH DOES NOT APPEAR OVERNIGHT; the mark behind the eye, contiguously occurring in time with the mark beneath the dorsal and noticed very suddenly this past Monday, on December 22nd IS NOT HITH. HITH does not spontaneouly appear! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > The white specks on him did have a consistency of a sugar granuale so > my first impression was Ick. The injury behind his eye is a missing > scale. Any other spots are just overexposure like the one in front of > his eye. There is really nothing there. > After reading the link that you posted and searching online, I am > even more unsure as what to do. Metronidazole is not easy to obtain > as no LFS have it by me. I didnt even waste my time with > Petco/Petsmart etc. My vet hospital doesn't have the expertise to > treat fish. BTJs wanted to sell me the same tank buddies I already > have! > To me it seems to be a try anything disease or a sit and wait disease? > So far he is eating and not shying away. When I open the hood he is > waiting for food. > Any ideas for the next step? > > > > > > OK.. back to fish... > > > > While looking at your photos, the white specks on your angelfish > seem larger > > than Ick spots to me... Ick looks more like salt or sugar sized > granules > > sprinkled on a fish. Since you can see the fish firsthand, are the > spots > > raised or indented? Are they the size of salt or sugar granules or > larger > > or smaller? The initial injury near the dorsal fin is a lot larger > than I > > initially got the impression it would be and that along with the > other > > "injuries" gave me a quick impression of it being HITH (Hole In The > Head) > > disease. If the specks are actually indentions rather than bumps, > then I > > wonder if HITH or HLLE might not be something to look at since it's > more > > common in larger cichlids (like Angelfish, Oscars, etc.). Maybe > one of the > > disease experts out here can expand the discussion more on this > possibility. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34899	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Darlene, While Tom is not in any need of this medication, it should be made aware that if you have access to most any good LFS in the States, Metronidazole is readily available as the main ingredient (or SOLE ingredient) of a variety of different medications, produced by a number of different manufacturers -- as I've outline in my previous reply to Tom. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: > > Metronidazole is not easy to obtain > > > you would have to get it from your local vet after getting a prescription from a vet who treats fish.it comes in several form, injectable, liquid, or pills. > > Darlene > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34900	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Tom, You do not need to treat for HITH disease, What makes you think you do? Surely not that area behind the eye! -- You've already ruled that out as missing scales. And SURELY not the wound under the Dorsal Fin; this IS NOT the manifestation of HITH. As for your Angelfish not eating, it would be quite useless at this point to buy any food for him at all (medicated or not), if he has no appetite to make use of it. This behavior hopefully is temporary, and may have been brought on by the Ich it is now fighting. Then too, with you removing him to a different tank, this may have added to any stress he is now enduring with combatting this disease. If this persists (lack of appetite), fill us in on exactly the behavior he is exhibiting (besides just - "not eating"), to allow us to better determine a diagnosis in the reason he is not eating. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > So to treat HITH disease, I dont need to get Metronidazole just an > anti-parisite antibiotic. Or one that contains Metro? Or do they all > contain Metro? > > I was on the Jungle labs site and I couldnt see if their meds > contained Metronidazole. I am going to Petsmart to pick up some > Jungle Food. > > Before I buy it, I have noticed this morning that the angel does not > have an appetite any more. would buying the food sorta be null and > void? > > The Animal ER by me said to bring him in so they can be sure its > HITH ...... Office visit to the ER is $75... They also dont > specialize in fish LOL!! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Darlene <amazonbirds@> wrote: > > > > Actually, you can buy food with it already in the food.. Metro- > Med's. > > > > http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php? > productId=9&catId=5 > > > > https://www.pondrx.com/products/16159.html > > > > Even the Jungle AntiParasite Medicated Food contains Metro. > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicatedFood.html > > > > These are available in the U.S.... although I'm not sure how > available they > > are in other countries but I think the Jungle AntiParasite and > Jungle > > Antibacterial foods are more widely available even in areas that > are strict > > about providing the raw ingredients at retail. It's funny that here > in the > > States, one can walk into PetsMart and walk out with a wide array of > > antibiotics right off the shelf in the fish section where they > could not buy > > these meds without a doctors visit. > > > > ** will definitely be visiting an American Wal Mart in the near > future LOLOL > > will make a list of everything i would like to get that i cannot > get up here :)) > > > > Darlene > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34901	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Lucille's Tail

Deb, As \\Steve// suggests (points out), usually as a normal progression of Hemorrhagic Septicemia in fish, it will be noted as starting at the base of the fins -- not as starting at the exterior finges of the fins. While I couldn't get a very clear picture, it doesn't seem as if this condition exists in your fish. Of course, keep us advised of any changes. Its quite normal for many Goldfish to change color and color patterns as they grow, and as your's are resuming growth, this may well be what is taking place. This generally occurs when they are slightly older -- and by this, its conceded that along with the slight additional age at which this occurs, the fish would naturally be larger. As your fish may have been held back in growth, and may not be indicative of this phenomenon, their age may be sufficient for them to start undergoing these changes, but keep us posted. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I tried to get pictures and they're just too fuzzy. I did get a short > video, though, that might be clear enough: > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU > OR > http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not especially > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development of > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of > Lucille, showing these streaks? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Ray, I just want to note that I've seen many forum threads over the years with Angelfish with HITH disease. Here's a couple and the top one is a 3 page long Sticky in the Disease section of the forum. http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=1397 http://www.angelfishkisses.com/forum/showthread.php?p=26454 Yes, it's not as common as with Oscars but to me the shape and location of the "injury" looks to me that it could be just as much related to HITH as to a physical injury. The OP doesn't know for certain what caused the injury so I'm not sure. Two of the symptoms... skin lesions in the head area and the decline in food acceptance are two symptoms... of course the skin lesion could be from an injury and the decline in food could be related to many other things.. even constipation... but the unexplained lesion still struck me as appearing to be an HITH related lesion. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: OK got the angelfish photo! Your confirmation that the small white spots on this fish look more like salt or sugar sized granules sprinkled on the fish indicate that the fish indedd does have Ich -- and you should consider proceeding as per suggestions I outlined in my previous post. The odd-shaped wound near the dorsal fin is definitely not HITH (Hole-In-The Head) disease. Without yet any info coming forth as to whether the area of undetermined origin behind the eye is raised or indented, it's hard to say exactly what that is (in one post, you mentioned it was an area of missing scales). If this (missing scales) turns out to be the cause for this blemish, this should heal up in short time as well, and may have been incurred at the same time as the larger wound. I would like to add that while many Cichlids are prone to contracting externally manifested HITH disease, I can't say I've ever seen an Angelfish contract this malady in my lifetime. More noted for getting HITH (external) are Discus and a number of particular species related to what was once known broadly as the Cichlasoma Clade -- which would include its close relations, Oscar's and Uaru's. Its just possible that I may have been fortunate in not ever seeing HITH in Angelfish, but if they do contract it, I'd have to say its rare. Angels will, however, contract internal parasite disease (Hexamita), which early on was thought to be associated with HITH diease, but further studies of any connection between the two have dispursed this theory. At this time, and with the descriptions noted here as best as can be seen, I see no reason for treating this fish for HITH, and no reason to continue searching for medications for treating HITH, including Metronidazole -- which, if you live within the confines of the United States (or have access to the LFS's), can be readily obtained if needed. SeaChem's Metronidazole (powdered) is just that, as is primarily also Jungle Laboratory's Internal Parasite Guard, Jungle Lab's Hole-in-the-Head Guard, Thomas Laboratory's Fish-Zole, Aquatrol's Metrozol, Aquarium Pharmaceutical's General Cure, Hikari's Metro+ and the Jungle Lab's Parasite Clear Tank Buddies. Jungle Labs also offers a medicated food, Anti-Parasite Medicated Fish Food, with Metronidazole as the main medication as the active ingredient. These medications do not seem necessary in your case, however. The next step? Expect to treat for Ich, posibly via the heat treatment as already outlined. Continue to keep an eye on these injuries -- NOTE -- HITH DOES NOT APPEAR OVERNIGHT; the mark behind the eye, contiguously occurring in time with the mark beneath the dorsal and noticed very suddenly this past Monday, on December 22nd IS NOT HITH. HITH does not spontaneouly appear! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > The white specks on him did have a consistency of a sugar granuale so > my first impression was Ick. The injury behind his eye is a missing > scale. Any other spots are just overexposure like the one in front of > his eye. There is really nothing there. > After reading the link that you posted and searching online, I am even > more unsure as what to do. Metronidazole is not easy to obtain as no > LFS have it by me. I didnt even waste my time with Petco/Petsmart etc. > My vet hospital doesn't have the expertise to treat fish. BTJs wanted > to sell me the same tank buddies I already have! > To me it seems to be a try anything disease or a sit and wait disease? > So far he is eating and not shying away. When I open the hood he is > waiting for food. > Any ideas for the next step? > > > > > > OK.. back to fish... > > > > While looking at your photos, the white specks on your angelfish > seem larger > > than Ick spots to me... Ick looks more like salt or sugar sized > granules > > sprinkled on a fish. Since you can see the fish firsthand, are the > spots > > raised or indented? Are they the size of salt or sugar granules or > larger > > or smaller? The initial injury near the dorsal fin is a lot larger > than I > > initially got the impression it would be and that along with the > other > > "injuries" gave me a quick impression of it being HITH (Hole In The > Head) > > disease. If the specks are actually indentions rather than bumps, > then I > > wonder if HITH or HLLE might not be something to look at since it's > more > > common in larger cichlids (like Angelfish, Oscars, etc.). Maybe > one of the > > disease experts out here can expand the discussion more on this > possibility. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34903	From: bill1433	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Ye Olde Medicine Cabinet

With all the talk lately about fungus, sores on fish, bacteria, internal parasites, and a whole host of other abnormalities; maybe now would be a good time to start a dissuasion on a Medicine Cabinet for fish.   From all I have read the past few days, it would seem that some type of emergency first-aid should be on-hand or in place to relieve any immediate suffering occurring with our scaled friends.  Any suggestions on things a good aquarist would have or should have on hand?  Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34904	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo! THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP

Well... Angi died tonight. She seemed to be just looking up (like she was expecting me to feed her) before I left and when I got home tonight she was dead. A few hours before that I found a LFS who carried the Jungle Tabs with Metro in it. I gave her the first dose and went out. When I pulled her out of the tank I noticed her belly was really fat like she swallowed a marble. I didnt notice this today. Was this something that happens with parasites or because she died? I try to keep all my tanks at 78 degrees. They vary by 1 or 2 degrees. She was in the hospital tank for about a week now but both tanks where at 79 deg. Like I said the wound started out just a little bigger than a pencil point. When it started turning white (healing?) it got bigger. I was also told by the LFS that Black Angels tend to be more susceptable to diseases and are less hardy than colored Angels. Is this from his experience or is this true? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Had the opportunity to check out the pics in your file. Would first > like to mention that I did not expect the wound to be quite so large, > although it seems to be under control as far as not getting infected. > The second area I noticed was that large mark behind the eye, which > you've clarified as being a missing scale (or scales), and therefore > would seem not to be of concern. There is some random spotting here > and there throughout, but without very much definition its impossible > for me to determine if they're on the fish or on the glass. Just as > Lenny asks, I too was curious as to whether this appeared on the fish, > as salt-like granuals -- which you've confimed. > > This being the case, it would seem as though the fish has contracted > Ich. Two questions of mine here are; what is the temperature in the > main tank? And, what is the temperature in the quarantine/hospital > tank? I realize this wound would be causing the fish some stress, but > this should not drop his immunity system to the point where he'd get > Ich. I'll cover more on this in the next post. Ray > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34905	From: Leanna	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hi Im New

thanks for the info i will check out your blog soon, it was the petstore that tested my water when i brought in the dead fish, im bolth new to fishkeeping and the group, my last tank was a 3 years old and i did nothing in relation to there care. i just gravel vacked the tank, found one of the 5 tetras dead. but he dident look qwite right to begin with so theres still hope for the others. my takes been up for about 2 weeks. oh and there werent any numbers on the water test it was based on colors. hope this helps "tanks" for the other advice to Anna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I just replied to your other post but wanted to expand here. > > Do you have your own water test kit or are you relying on the pet store or > LFS (local fish store) to test your water? In either case, give us the > actual numbers on the test results so we can better help you. > > How long has your tank been set up? > > Are you a new fish keeper or just new to this group? If a new fish keeper, > I would strongly suggest you take one or both of the free online fish > keeping tutorials that I have listed on my blog. Go to my blog, then to the > "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and you'll see the tutorials listed near the > top of that page. These tutorials will walk you through all of the basics, > including the nitrogen cycle which is very important to learn/understand. > Also, while on the A to Z page, read over my article on Filter Maintenance > And Cleaning as there are some mistakes pointed out in that article that > cause a lot of newbie's many problems with getting the nitrogen cycle > established in their aquariums. You will also see articles on "Cycling With > Fish", which may be what you are stuck with doing and also on "Fishless > Cycling" which is the better way to go. > > Since you've already added the new fish to your tank (better to quarantine > them in the future), you should also ask your fish store for a handful of > gravel from one of their healthy tanks.. preferably the one you got your > fish from... and put this gravel in a piece of webbing or nylon and put it > in your filter reservoir. This will go a long way in getting your nitrogen > cycle established. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Leanna > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi Im New > > Hello, im leanna(call me Anna) > > i am new to fish tanks and just set up my first(unless you count the time > when i was 3) its a 10gallon freshwater tank, i have a asin theam decor. My > fish are 2 male fancy guppys 1 pregnet female fancy guppy 5 neon's and one > cory cat. the tetras and cory cat are new today. > > all water tests say my water is good, just SLIGHTLY high on nitrates and i > mean barly high. my guppys are happy as can be(the pregnit female should be > proof of that) but the tetras and cory cat are my second bach (thank > goodness for fishstore garentees) my past batch all died a slow death and i > dont know y. none of the petstore staff have a clue, my water comes out > clean and my guppys are fantastic... i was hoping you mite have a clue as to > what did in my dearly departed fish. > > thanks for all and any inpoot > > Leanna(Anna) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34906	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?

Sadly Angie has past tonight.. but any info for future reference will help me out greatly. I have a hood on the tank. its the typical plastic perfecto looking hood with the to plastic doors on the top. Only the back is open for the HOBs. I keep checking the mystery Silver Dollar to see if it has any teeth, but so far I dont see any. He is the most shy out of every fish in the tank. Ya know what they say about quiet and shy people.. maybe it holds true to fish too.. If you or anyone could point me in the right direction or site for treating Ich or any fish disease for that matter with just salt, melafex and temps please let me know. I am a product of over medication with antibiotics. I have chronic otis media (ear infections that dont go away). I have been pumped up with augmentin,amox,cechlor etc for 30+ years and now my minimum perscription is a 30 day supply 3700/mg per day. Even that is not enough to make them go away. So as you can tell I dont like antibiotics! BTW it was Ich Clear. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Glad to see you've added a nightlight, and just like a tank cover you > may not need it 364 days out of the year -- but it only takes that > one day that a fish may decide to jump or may get startled by > something (another fish?) that may have bumped into it during the > middle of the night, that it becomes well worth the investment to > have. BTW, I trust you have a full hood (?). If so, and I wouldn't > know what kind you have, this type of wound almost looks like it may > have been received in the course of the fish jumping clear of the > water and hitting something above the water line. Is there anything > in this structure of your reflector which could have caused this? > Are you positive your mini Silver Dollar is not a Piranha (the wound > is large enough for this possibility)? > > Keep an eye on that wound and report to us anything that may look > worse to you at any time. From what you're saying, it does seem as > though its on the mend, even if it might take a week or more to heal. > > Getting back to the Ich, again I would like to know if there was much > difference between the two tanks' temperatures, and just what those > temperatures were. I do notice you've added one Tank Buddy for Ich, > but unless one knows that these Tank Buddy's are specifically for the > use of Ich and not just that you've used a Tank Buddy for Ich, there > is no way for any of us trying to offer you advice unless you specify > exactly which Tank Buddy's you've used. Many of us may not be aware > that Jungle Labs offers Fungus Clear Tank Buddy, Parasite Clear Tank > Buddy Ich Clear Tank Buddy and even a non-medication Ammonia Clear > Tank Buddy tablet (maybe others, too?). I would assume, or at least > hope you used Ich Clear Tank Buddy's (Victoria Green and Acriflavin), > but I do not know this for sure. If you used Parasite Clear Tank > Buddy, you should know that even though Ich is a parasite, this > medication is not effective against Ich. > > Too, Ich Clear Tank Buddy (Victoria Green & Acriflavin) would not be > my choice for medication against Ich, but I do hope you have success > with it (again -- keep us posted on this). Actually, my choice as > treatment against Ich is the tried and true, extremely successful and > safe heat and salt treatment which I've never heard reported as > failing. We here will be more than willing to offer you any advice > needed as your requirements for any come up, and could have advised > you of this method had you mentioned your fish's plight. Even the > best of LFS (local fish stores) will offer you some kind of > medication, as a sale as part of what they're in business for, as to > not sell you something (even though it may help) would be going > against what they're primary reason for existing is -- to make > money. It would not be in their best interest to advise hobbyists of > ways to deal with their fish if it entailed not buying something for > the purpose. > > As stated, hopefully this Victoria Green will help in eliminating the > Ich, if this is what you used. If/when you decide on going just with > salt, after removing the medication (via PWC's and carbon in the > filter), if this treatment is not successful, raise the temperature > up to at least 86 o F (preferably with increased aeration, if > possible) and keep it there until 3 days after you see no more signs > of Ich. This could take on the average of up to about 10 days, > sometimes sooner. Ray > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34907	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo!

Ya know what happens when a panicky parent has access to a wealth of information??? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Tom, You do not need to treat for HITH disease, What makes you > think you do? Surely not that area behind the eye! -- You've already > ruled that out as missing scales. And SURELY not the wound under the > Dorsal Fin; this IS NOT the manifestation of HITH. > > As for your Angelfish not eating, it would be quite useless at this > point to buy any food for him at all (medicated or not), if he has no > appetite to make use of it. This behavior hopefully is temporary, > and may have been brought on by the Ich it is now fighting. Then > too, with you removing him to a different tank, this may have added > to any stress he is now enduring with combatting this disease. If > this persists (lack of appetite), fill us in on exactly the behavior > he is exhibiting (besides just - "not eating"), to allow us to better > determine a diagnosis in the reason he is not eating. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34908	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo! THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP

Sorry to hear that, Tom; that was quite a sudden turn of events. With her belly being fat, which we hadn't known before, she may have had an internal infection (note; I'm not referring to internal parasites here), perhaps even the start of Dropsy or a swim bladder disease, all resulting in a swollen abdomen. While none of this would have been associated with HITH disease, I did mention for you to fill us in on any further behavior in the fish's refusal to eat to help pinpoint the reason. I did not want to jump the gun at that point, but had I known a bit more of the fish's behavior I would have said further that you could not rule out the possibility of Hexamita, which Angels are known to carry (and which often compromises their health to the point of no return if not treated in time) -- and which I suspected as soon as I learned of the hunger strike. As I had stated in a previous post, this also has nothing to do with HITH, as studies have borne out against the earlier theory, but Metronidazole would have been the medication of choice, had this been the diagnosis. A swollen belly would not indicate Hexamita though. Your temperatures of 78 o or 79 o is fine for maintaining Angelfish under normal circumstances; this should not have been a cause for her getting Ich, but I just need to know to try to understand how it got started. Yes, today's Black Angelfish are less hardy than most other varieties; they can be more susceptible to diseases -- that's not a fallacy. I still can't make a connection between what appears to be a definite wound (from its quite jagged outline) and any possible internal issues. It seems to me that one is removed from any possibility of the other, as a separate incident. I can't say for sure why the white area got bigger when it started to heal, except that perhaps the underlying wound was larger under the black- pigmented skin than originally appeared. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > Well... Angi died tonight. She seemed to be just looking up (like she > was expecting me to feed her) before I left and when I got home > tonight she was dead. A few hours before that I found a LFS who > carried the Jungle Tabs with Metro in it. I gave her the first dose > and went out. > > When I pulled her out of the tank I noticed her belly was really fat > like she swallowed a marble. I didnt notice this today. > Was this something that happens with parasites or because she died? > > I try to keep all my tanks at 78 degrees. They vary by 1 or 2 > degrees. She was in the hospital tank for about a week now but both > tanks where at 79 deg. > > Like I said the wound started out just a little bigger than a pencil > point. When it started turning white (healing?) it got bigger. > > I was also told by the LFS that Black Angels tend to be more > susceptable to diseases and are less hardy than colored Angels. Is > this from his experience or is this true? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Had the opportunity to check out the pics in your file. Would > first > > like to mention that I did not expect the wound to be quite so > large, > > although it seems to be under control as far as not getting > infected. > > The second area I noticed was that large mark behind the eye, which > > you've clarified as being a missing scale (or scales), and > therefore > > would seem not to be of concern. There is some random spotting > here > > and there throughout, but without very much definition its > impossible > > for me to determine if they're on the fish or on the glass. Just > as > > Lenny asks, I too was curious as to whether this appeared on the > fish, > > as salt-like granuals -- which you've confimed. > > > > This being the case, it would seem as though the fish has > contracted > > Ich. Two questions of mine here are; what is the temperature in > the > > main tank? And, what is the temperature in the quarantine/hospital > > tank? I realize this wound would be causing the fish some stress, > but > > this should not drop his immunity system to the point where he'd > get > > Ich. I'll cover more on this in the next post. Ray > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34909	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Medicine Cabinet

Since most medications have a shelf life that may be exceeded while you are waiting for your personal fishy Armageddon, just keep some kosher or canning salt on hand, a spare tank to use as a quarantine tank, and a small bubble-up sponge filter running in your main tank (or in one tank if you have multiple tanks). The quarantine tank should be large enough to comfortably contain your largest fish (adult size). A heater should also be available to provide the warmth that would be needed to at least match the temperature of your main tank, and to raise the temperature up to 90^o F. if necessary. You should be able to set up the quarantine tank in about a half hour, rinsing it out, filling it with warmish water, adding the water treatments you use, and adding a bit of salt--a good first line of treatment, along with heat--the fish and the sponge filter to the tank. A good disease reference should be in your library, so you have a chance to diagnose the problem before treatment starts. Knowing what you are treating for is a good start so you do not waste time and money on drugs that may be useless against the disease or parasites that you have. Also be sure to follow the full regimen of treatment as given, not stopping because the fish now looks good. Stopping treatment prematurely can lead to having stronger organisms to defeat the next time around. This would be a good spot to insert a recommended book, but all the ones I have are definitely out of print, and, I am sure, somewhat out of date with treatment recommendations. There are also online sources, see Lenny's blog for such sites. I do not believe in prophylactic treatments, such as placing a minimal amount of salt in your display or holding tanks. I do not think they really accomplish anything in the long run. Though I have seen a lot of anecdotal information about melafix and pimafix, I really have not seen any scientific studies done about their usage. I also note that in the anecdotal info available, there are some real horror stories about the detrimental effects either or both products can have. The big selling points to these are that they are "natural" products. Of course, this overlooks the fact that malachite green, tetracycline, and many other drugs used in the hobby today are also "natural" products, occurring in nature, though the effective ingredients are just as likely to be synthesized today rather than distilled from their natural sources. A molecule is a molecule, no matter what the source. Truth is, avoid keeping any medications on hand. In a properly cared for environment, you'll not have need for any of it, and if you are unfortunate enough to have the need, you are likely to have the wrong medication on hand. On lists like this, you are likely to see a preponderance of problems and indicators of this disease and that disease, because people are looking for information and help. You will not see a lot of the wow, my tank is just swell posts, because people that do not have problems simply tend not to post. It's just human nature. We all complain about the news because it always tells us about the bad that is happening, but we would not watch it if it was all good news. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:00 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ye Olde Medicine Cabinet > > With all the talk lately about fungus, sores on fish, bacteria, internal parasites, > and a whole host of other abnormalities; maybe now would be a good time to start a dissuasion > on a Medicine Cabinet for fish. > > From all I have read the past few days, it would seem that some type of > emergency first-aid should be on-hand or in place to relieve any immediate > suffering occurring with our scaled friends.  Any suggestions on things a good aquarist would > have or should have on hand? >  Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Medicine Cabinet

Your typo of "dissuasion" (I think you meant discussion) is a very nice Freudian Slip... since most of us should be dissuaded from keeping too many meds on hand as most of them would go out of date before you ever use them. ;-) Other than keeping salt in your kitchen cupboard, there's not much use for a medicine chest unless you have lots of fish tanks, rescue fish and/or tanks from others, etc., where the likelihood of need would be often enough to warrant keeping meds around. They do not have long shelf lives for the most part and you could find yourself throwing stuff away. Of course, I'm in a city with 24 hour drug stores, 24 hour Wal-Mart's and other stores that are open 7 days a week till 9'ish every night so I have easy access to any meds I might need if and when I need them. At first sign of many issues, a salt treatment of 0.1%, slowly raised to 0.3% is always a good first step while trying to diagnose the exact issue. Besides salt, other regular household remedies like Hydrogen Peroxide, antibiotic creams, etc., can also be used if/when needed... especially on larger fish that are a little easier to spot treat than small fish. Keeping Prime or other ammonia binding dechlor product probably isn't a bad thing to have around in the even of cycling issues. Salt would come into play with any nitrite issues to help prevent nitrite poisoning... a pinch per 10G works for low levels of nitrites. Higher levels should be treated with frequent PWC's. Heck... why am I typing this.. I'm the king of links. LOL Here's a "Medicine Cabinet" page that I have in my favorites folder. http://thegab.org/Articles/MedicineCabinet.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 7:00 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Ye Olde Medicine Cabinet With all the talk lately about fungus, sores on fish, bacteria, internal parasites, and a whole host of other abnormalities; maybe now would be a good time to start a dissuasion on a Medicine Cabinet for fish. From all I have read the past few days, it would seem that some type of emergency first-aid should be on-hand or in place to relieve any immediate suffering occurring with our scaled friends. Any suggestions on things a good aquarist would have or should have on hand? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Hi Im New

OK. It's very important that you take those fish keeping tutorials and read the articles on Cycling With Fish since that is what you are stuck with doing right now. Without your own test kit, you will have to either get your water tested daily and/or do preventative 25% PWC's (partial water changes) daily, use Prime as your dechlor, which also helps to detoxify ammonia and add a pinch of salt per 10G of water to help prevent nitrite poisoning. Having your own Master Test Kit would make your life and your fishes lives much easier so you would actually know what's going on with their water and the nitrogen cycle in the tank.. rather than playing a guessing game. The colors on their tests should still be related to some kind of numbers on their color charts... although I have seen some really bad dip sticks that just say OK, Good, Bad or something non-descript like that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leanna Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hi Im New thanks for the info i will check out your blog soon, it was the petstore that tested my water when i brought in the dead fish, im bolth new to fishkeeping and the group, my last tank was a 3 years old and i did nothing in relation to there care. i just gravel vacked the tank, found one of the 5 tetras dead. but he dident look qwite right to begin with so theres still hope for the others. my takes been up for about 2 weeks. oh and there werent any numbers on the water test it was based on colors. hope this helps "tanks" for the other advice to Anna --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I just replied to your other post but wanted to expand here. > > Do you have your own water test kit or are you relying on the pet store or > LFS (local fish store) to test your water? In either case, give us the > actual numbers on the test results so we can better help you. > > How long has your tank been set up? > > Are you a new fish keeper or just new to this group? If a new fish keeper, > I would strongly suggest you take one or both of the free online fish > keeping tutorials that I have listed on my blog. Go to my blog, then to the > "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and you'll see the tutorials listed near the > top of that page. These tutorials will walk you through all of the basics, > including the nitrogen cycle which is very important to learn/understand. > Also, while on the A to Z page, read over my article on Filter Maintenance > And Cleaning as there are some mistakes pointed out in that article that > cause a lot of newbie's many problems with getting the nitrogen cycle > established in their aquariums. You will also see articles on "Cycling With > Fish", which may be what you are stuck with doing and also on "Fishless > Cycling" which is the better way to go. > > Since you've already added the new fish to your tank (better to quarantine > them in the future), you should also ask your fish store for a handful of > gravel from one of their healthy tanks.. preferably the one you got your > fish from... and put this gravel in a piece of webbing or nylon and put it > in your filter reservoir. This will go a long way in getting your nitrogen > cycle established. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Leanna > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi Im New > > Hello, im leanna(call me Anna) > > i am new to fish tanks and just set up my first(unless you count the time > when i was 3) its a 10gallon freshwater tank, i have a asin theam decor. My > fish are 2 male fancy guppys 1 pregnet female fancy guppy 5 neon's and one > cory cat. the tetras and cory cat are new today. > > all water tests say my water is good, just SLIGHTLY high on nitrates and i > mean barly high. my guppys are happy as can be(the pregnit female should be > proof of that) but the tetras and cory cat are my second bach (thank > goodness for fishstore garentees) my past batch all died a slow death and i > dont know y. none of the petstore staff have a clue, my water comes out > clean and my guppys are fantastic... i was hoping you mite have a clue as to > what did in my dearly departed fish. > > thanks for all and any inpoot > > Leanna(Anna) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34912	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: Angel fish with a bite mark or white spot?

Tom, Again, my sympathies on the loss of your Angelfish. They're quite majestic in their own right and one can easily get attached to them when being involved in this hobby. Looking over your description of your hood, its still a mystery as to exactly how your fish incurred that wound, and it still looked like a wound to me beyond any other possibility. Wounds can be freak things with their occurance, just as accidents are with people. Sometimes its hard to figure out just how they happened. Its possible, since you mentioned "HOB's," that in taking flight, the fish could have hit its back against the protrusion of the HOB filter return (if you have such a filter) that juts out. Those Whisper filters (and other similar ones), for instance, have that wide plastic waterfall-like return. whether an accident happened uder or above water, it always pays to have a night light for the fish's room,, just to prevent this sort of thing. As for treating Ich with only salt and higher temperature, I'd be most pleased to point you in the right direction for a site -- how about Aquatic Life (Yahoo Group)!!! You only need to refer to the archives to see the many posts on it. All of us moderators here endorse and encourage the salt/heat treatment for Ich over any other method -- except for cooler water fish, such as Goldfish which might be hard-pressed to take 86 o (LOL). You cannot treat Ich with Melafix, however (besides, that contains anti-biotic properties -- and Ich is a protozoan parasite). I had assumed (and by chance, rightly so this time) it was Ich Clear Tank Buddies that you used, but for the benefit of others, its always best to point these little details out for clarity in efforts to help others help you. Sorry to learn of your ear condition, its no wonder you don't like anti-biotics. When used prudently, the proper ones for the specific fish diseases can be of immense help, though. Getting back to your Angel for a moment, and for the time being dismissing the physical injury -- assuming this fish died as a result of Hexamita (although I tend to doubt that, with noting a swollen belly), for the future I'd just like to suggest a few points of maintenance with this fish (species) to help ensure better success. One of the best things you can do for Angelfish is to continue with a regular routine of at least weekly, but whenever possible twice a week (or even every other day) PWC's. They THRIVE on a constant change (but same parameters) of fresh water. Never allow the nitrates to build up. This tends to put a stress on them which may not appear outwardly in the general scheme of things in their daily lives, but will accumulate, slowly taxing their immune system and permitting these Flagellate (Hexamita) Protozoan -- which is ever- present in many (most?) Angelfish as a controlled host -- to gain in population from a mere foothold to a spreading pathogen, taking over and infesting the intestinal system. There are specific behavioral mannerisms exhibited by such infested Angelfish, which I need not go into now, but if this is suspected in the future, please feel free to ask for assistance. While Hexamita in Angelfish can overtake some individuals faster than others, the severity of the disease is not yet established until the fish refuses food -- and while sometimes acting faster, this disease cannot be fatal within 24 hours as your fish has experienced. These more frequent PWC's will also help maintain the immune system against other internal diseases, such as what might have happened to yours, but there is litte defense when sudden and freak varieties of diseases strike regardless of how well a fish is maintained. Then you have to add in that strains such as your's (Black Angelfish) are inherantly weaker in their resolve and secumb more quickly when confronted with more-foreign diseases. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > Sadly Angie has past tonight.. but any info for future reference will > help me out greatly. > > I have a hood on the tank. its the typical plastic perfecto looking > hood with the to plastic doors on the top. Only the back is open for > the HOBs. > I keep checking the mystery Silver Dollar to see if it has any teeth, > but so far I dont see any. He is the most shy out of every fish in > the tank. Ya know what they say about quiet and shy people.. maybe it > holds true to fish too.. > If you or anyone could point me in the right direction or site for > treating Ich or any fish disease for that matter with just salt, > melafex and temps please let me know. I am a product of over > medication with antibiotics. I have chronic otis media (ear > infections that dont go away). I have been pumped up with > augmentin,amox,cechlor etc for 30+ years and now my minimum > perscription is a 30 day supply 3700/mg per day. Even that is not > enough to make them go away. So as you can tell I dont like > antibiotics! > BTW it was Ich Clear. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Glad to see you've added a nightlight, and just like a tank cover > you > > may not need it 364 days out of the year -- but it only takes that > > one day that a fish may decide to jump or may get startled by > > something (another fish?) that may have bumped into it during the > > middle of the night, that it becomes well worth the investment to > > have. BTW, I trust you have a full hood (?). If so, and I > wouldn't > > know what kind you have, this type of wound almost looks like it > may > > have been received in the course of the fish jumping clear of the > > water and hitting something above the water line. Is there > anything > > in this structure of your reflector which could have caused this? > > Are you positive your mini Silver Dollar is not a Piranha (the > wound > > is large enough for this possibility)? > > > > Keep an eye on that wound and report to us anything that may look > > worse to you at any time. From what you're saying, it does seem as > > though its on the mend, even if it might take a week or more to > heal. > > > > Getting back to the Ich, again I would like to know if there was > much > > difference between the two tanks' temperatures, and just what those > > temperatures were. I do notice you've added one Tank Buddy for > Ich, > > but unless one knows that these Tank Buddy's are specifically for > the > > use of Ich and not just that you've used a Tank Buddy for Ich, > there > > is no way for any of us trying to offer you advice unless you > specify > > exactly which Tank Buddy's you've used. Many of us may not be > aware > > that Jungle Labs offers Fungus Clear Tank Buddy, Parasite Clear > Tank > > Buddy Ich Clear Tank Buddy and even a non-medication Ammonia Clear > > Tank Buddy tablet (maybe others, too?). I would assume, or at > least > > hope you used Ich Clear Tank Buddy's (Victoria Green and > Acriflavin), > > but I do not know this for sure. If you used Parasite Clear Tank > > Buddy, you should know that even though Ich is a parasite, this > > medication is not effective against Ich. > > > > Too, Ich Clear Tank Buddy (Victoria Green & Acriflavin) would not > be > > my choice for medication against Ich, but I do hope you have > success > > with it (again -- keep us posted on this). Actually, my choice as > > treatment against Ich is the tried and true, extremely successful > and > > safe heat and salt treatment which I've never heard reported as > > failing. We here will be more than willing to offer you any advice > > needed as your requirements for any come up, and could have advised > > you of this method had you mentioned your fish's plight. Even the > > best of LFS (local fish stores) will offer you some kind of > > medication, as a sale as part of what they're in business for, as > to > > not sell you something (even though it may help) would be going > > against what they're primary reason for existing is -- to make > > money. It would not be in their best interest to advise hobbyists > of > > ways to deal with their fish if it entailed not buying something > for > > the purpose. > > > > As stated, hopefully this Victoria Green will help in eliminating > the > > Ich, if this is what you used. If/when you decide on going just > with > > salt, after removing the medication (via PWC's and carbon in the > > filter), if this treatment is not successful, raise the temperature > > up to at least 86 o F (preferably with increased aeration, if > > possible) and keep it there until 3 days after you see no more > signs > > of Ich. This could take on the average of up to about 10 days, > > sometimes sooner. Ray > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34913	From: Darlene	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo/ RAY

it should be made aware that if you have access to most any good LFS in the States, Metronidazole is readily available as the main ingredient (or SOLE ingredient) of a variety of different medications, produced by a number of different manufacturers Thanks Ray, i am making a list of possible things to get next time i cross the border :) when it comes to certain meds up here in Canada they are very hard to get :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34914	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/27/2008
Subject: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

Saturday Night Check in (Day 10 of reduced salt - 26 total): - Baseline #1 on straight tap water: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Tank (midnight): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm - CB has been very active today - almost back to normal. I figured since the fungus is a thing of the past I should probably change the subject line. Noting the Ammonia level, since I gave the PraziPro yesterday at 5pm, should I do a PWC and treat the replacement water with PraziPro or should I just add more Prime to control the ammonia? I'm looking for someplace to take a water sample from the aquarium and have it tested so I can tell if my kit is giving me accurate results. Will PetSmart do that kind of thing? I only know of one LFS and as I said before it's kind of a dirty little place. I might buy sealed containers of fish products, but I wouldn't buy any fish there and I'm not so sure I'd trust their advice. Also, since everyone agrees that Lucille probably doesn't have Septicemia, should I stop replacing salt with any PWCs? I really don't think it's a color change. It looks much more like blood to me. Someone mentioned about CB's tail is so short. It was longer in spots, but raggedy, and the raggedy bits finally fell off, but the tail seems to be growing back some, now. Now that the fish are acting healthier, I do notice Lucille nipping at CB's tail sometimes. I had originally suspected that both CB's and Raven's tails had been nibbled on. In a 10 gallon tank, where could they have escaped to? Hopefully, I can keep Lucille entertained enough and give CB places to hide. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) --------------------Insertion for continuity--------------- Deb, As \\Steve// suggests (points out), usually as a normal progression of Hemorrhagic Septicemia in fish, it will be noted as starting at the base of the fins -- not as starting at the exterior finges of the fins. While I couldn't get a very clear picture, it doesn't seem as if this condition exists in your fish. Of course, keep us advised of any changes. Its quite normal for many Goldfish to change color and color patterns as they grow, and as your's are resuming growth, this may well be what is taking place. This generally occurs when they are slightly older -- and by this, its conceded that along with the slight additional age at which this occurs, the fish would naturally be larger. As your fish may have been held back in growth, and may not be indicative of this phenomenon, their age may be sufficient for them to start undergoing these changes, but keep us posted. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I tried to get pictures and they're just too fuzzy. I did get a short > video, though, that might be clear enough: > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU > OR > http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ---------------End insertion for continuity--------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > Friday Night Check in (Day 9 of Reduced Salt - 25 Days total)(Starting > PraziPro): > > Wed (Christmas Eve): > - 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; > Nitrate: > 5 to 10ppm > - 1tsp Amquel+ @ 11AM (2nd half of dose) > > Thu (Christmas Day): > - 11AM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to > 10ppm > - .5cc Prime @ 1PM (I wouldn't normally do this, but there was no time > for > a PWC and I wanted to keep the ammonia down until Friday) > - Midnight: Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0 to .25ppm; Nitrate: almost > 10ppm > - 1cc Prime @ midnight (same reasoning- had to way the risk of extra > Prime > against that of too much Ammonia) > > Fri (today): > - PWC @ 3PM (7G out, 8G in, 19G ttl in tank) > - Treated each G of new water with 1tsp salt and .1cc Prime > - 5PM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to 10ppm > - 4.8cc PraziPro @ 5:30PM > > I won't stop using the Brita filter, but will use the Prime for PWCs > until I get the fish through the PraziPro and know what's going on with > the > chlorine/chloramines situation. I did notice that the pH dropped 2 points > with the water treatment. That's probably a good thing. > > I dodged a bullet Christmas Eve. I went to the pet store for dog > food, > because I also needed to get the aquarium stuff. If hubby had gone, he > was > going to surprise me with a small school of neon tetras to put with the > goldfish. *sigh* I doubt they even have the same environmental needs and > I > keep trying to explain that the goldfish have already maxed out the tank > bio-load, not to mention that they still have health problems. It goes in > one ear and out the other. His sister has two goldfish in what looks like > a > 2.5 gallon tank and they're "just fine." Hubby wants me to stunt my fish > so > they don't turn into carps. I'll rehome them and shut down the aquarium > before I do that. I've put too much work into getting them healthy. > > Oops. Bedtime. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:48 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Yes, I remember this set of readings. With day 2 already having .25 > ppm of ammonia, this would seem quite sudden -- and to me, suspicious > although I could be wrong. By your 1st day result for ammonia, it > would not appear as though you have chloramine in your tap water, > although I would still prefer the reply from your water company to be > sure. > > If you need to do a PWC before the third day, removing a portion of > the PraziPro in doing this, yes you should replace the portion of > PraziPro you removed at that time. You cannot expect the medication > to perform as though it were at full strength, when you remove some > of it. If, for instance, you remove and replace 6 gallons of water > as a PWC of your tank of 18 gallons, you'll need to replace 1/3 of > the amount of PraziPro you initially started with. The aquarium- > solution strength PraziPro requires you use 1 tps per 20 gallons (6 > drops less for 18 gallons); for 6 gallons, you'd need to replace a > bit less than 1/3 of a tsp (or 18 drops). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: >> >> - Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): >> day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: >> 0ppm >> 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm >> 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm >> >> - The question about treating the replacement water was for > PraziPro if I >> need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> >> >> A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it >> appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water supply, as >> the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. CB >> may be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two >> fish, which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish > eating >> is a good sign, and encouraging to see. >> >> If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, dechlor >> will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of it. >> Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of > chloramine >> and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter > may >> be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what you >> have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing > the >> chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for > removing >> chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be able > to >> treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that would >> otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water >> containing chlorine. >> >> The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, if > it >> turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this >> ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your >> having chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from any >> other source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done right >> now. >> >> If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be aware >> that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter > can >> create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as > your >> Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly >> reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it without >> filtering it out. >> >> A good change to fresh water before introducing another medication > is >> always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's >> rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK (?) >> I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm >> reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and I'm >> assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you should >> ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You should >> NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 gallon >> PWC on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or >> dechlor, if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, not >> 20 gallons. Ray >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" >> <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> > >> > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update >> later >> > tonight. >> > >> > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my >> Baseline tests >> > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. > I'll >> verify >> > that before my post tonight. >> > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a > picture. >> > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest >> more than >> > the others. >> > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap >> filter. >> > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the >> Prime. For >> > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the >> filter, but >> > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water > before >> I do >> > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the >> fish don't >> > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. >> > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at >> least 3 >> > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I >> need to do >> > a PWC before then? >> > >> > More later. >> > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> > >> > >> > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now > beginning >> > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results > remaining >> > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest >> > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner > in >> > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I >> > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your >> water >> > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far >> > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria > should >> > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, >> > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect > to >> > keep up. We'll work on it though. >> > >> > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not >> especially >> > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters >> > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop >> > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they > do >> > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development >> of >> > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of >> > Lucille, showing these streaks? >> > >> > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat > for >> > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe > to >> > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in >> conjuction >> > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild >> medication, >> > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. >> > >> > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition > to >> > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) > need >> > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine > in >> > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you >> do >> > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but >> > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that > your >> > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or >> may >> > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you >> have >> > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water >> > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been >> using >> > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you > should >> > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an >> > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only >> > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue > to >> > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste >> > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is > in >> > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. >> > Ray >> > >> > >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" >> > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) >> > > >> > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly >> > under .25ppm; >> > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm >> > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM >> > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM >> > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G >> > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have >> an >> > > airstone) >> > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged >> > > >> > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the >> Prime >> > and also >> > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep >> > telling myself >> > > to get it and I keep forgetting. >> > > >> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34915	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

Good move on changing the subject line -- and being ABLE to change it. Nice to see that the fungus issue is behind you; that's at least one step in the right direction in getting these fish back to good health. CB's increased activity is even more encouraging than before. Keeping an eye on the ammonia level, I would do an additional PWC (but a somewhat smaller one) at this time, and replace the removed PraziPro, and add Prime with it. While you don't want the ammonia (ammonium) to increase much more, neither do you want to physically remove too much ammonium yet even though ideally you would strive for a zero (0) ammonia level in a fully cycled tank. I'm not fully convinced that your tank is completely cycled yet. You don't want to starve out your nitrifying bacteria -- but happily, your midnight readings indicate your nitrobacters and nitrospinas (nitrite- converting bacteria) are WELL populated as witness the 0 reading of this compound, having been completely converted to nitrate, but for some reason the nitrosomonas and nitrospiras (ammonia-converting bacteria) seem a bit slow and their populations may need building up (and would need food/ammonium with it). The baseline readings certainly make it appear as though your tap water does not contain chloramine, yet an earlier baseline reading of your tap water appeared to be a contradictory enigma when in went from 0.0 to 0.25 the next day. To be assured on this, I'd suggest you still contact your water company tomorrow, as was planned. You might give PetSmart a call on whether they do water testing, before going there, but I tend to doubt that they do (hope I'm wrong). If need be, give the LFS a shot at it while watching for his proper procedures. As long as he makes these tests properly and gives you the actual results (check those readings along with him, if he allows), you don't need to take any further advise from him regarding these readings. I would maintain the salt at its present level for the time being. This amount should not interfere with any of the aquarium's life functions, unless you have plants; I'd wait until you're completely out of the woods with health concerns, and continue watching any further red streaking of any fins. With your suspicion of Raven's and CB's tails being nipped by Lucille now being confirmed, this may be the direct cause of the redness in CB's tail and this salt addition will help prevent any fungusing of the damaged tissue. As I first started reading this account of CB having a shortened and raggedy caudal fin, the disease of fin-rot went through my mind up until I read your sighting of Lucille picking on the other two fish. Hiding places and plant cover do seem in order, but this behavior only increases the need for a larger tank sooner. As this may be pre- spawning behavior on the part of Lucille, you may have to change her (his? name to Louis! (LOL) Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 10 of reduced salt - 26 total): > > - Baseline #1 on straight tap water: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > - Tank (midnight): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; > Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm > - CB has been very active today - almost back to normal. > > I figured since the fungus is a thing of the past I should probably > change the subject line. > > Noting the Ammonia level, since I gave the PraziPro yesterday at 5pm, > should I do a PWC and treat the replacement water with PraziPro or should I > just add more Prime to control the ammonia? > > I'm looking for someplace to take a water sample from the aquarium and > have it tested so I can tell if my kit is giving me accurate results. Will > PetSmart do that kind of thing? I only know of one LFS and as I said before > it's kind of a dirty little place. I might buy sealed containers of fish > products, but I wouldn't buy any fish there and I'm not so sure I'd trust > their advice. > > Also, since everyone agrees that Lucille probably doesn't have > Septicemia, should I stop replacing salt with any PWCs? I really don't > think it's a color change. It looks much more like blood to me. > > Someone mentioned about CB's tail is so short. It was longer in spots, > but raggedy, and the raggedy bits finally fell off, but the tail seems to be > growing back some, now. Now that the fish are acting healthier, I do notice > Lucille nipping at CB's tail sometimes. I had originally suspected that > both CB's and Raven's tails had been nibbled on. In a 10 gallon tank, where > could they have escaped to? Hopefully, I can keep Lucille entertained > enough and give CB places to hide. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > --------------------Insertion for continuity--------------- > > Deb, As \\Steve// suggests (points out), usually as a normal > progression of Hemorrhagic Septicemia in fish, it will be noted as > starting at the base of the fins -- not as starting at the exterior > finges of the fins. While I couldn't get a very clear picture, it > doesn't seem as if this condition exists in your fish. Of course, > keep us advised of any changes. Its quite normal for many Goldfish > to change color and color patterns as they grow, and as your's are > resuming growth, this may well be what is taking place. This > generally occurs when they are slightly older -- and by this, its > conceded that along with the slight additional age at which this > occurs, the fish would naturally be larger. As your fish may have > been held back in growth, and may not be indicative of this > phenomenon, their age may be sufficient for them to start undergoing > these changes, but keep us posted. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > I tried to get pictures and they're just too fuzzy. I did get > a short > > video, though, that might be clear enough: > > http://www.facebook.com/p.php? i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU > > OR > > http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ---------------End insertion for continuity--------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:34 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 9 of Reduced Salt - 25 Days total) (Starting > > PraziPro): > > > > Wed (Christmas Eve): > > - 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; > > Nitrate: > > 5 to 10ppm > > - 1tsp Amquel+ @ 11AM (2nd half of dose) > > > > Thu (Christmas Day): > > - 11AM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to > > 10ppm > > - .5cc Prime @ 1PM (I wouldn't normally do this, but there was no time > > for > > a PWC and I wanted to keep the ammonia down until Friday) > > - Midnight: Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0 to .25ppm; Nitrate: almost > > 10ppm > > - 1cc Prime @ midnight (same reasoning- had to way the risk of extra > > Prime > > against that of too much Ammonia) > > > > Fri (today): > > - PWC @ 3PM (7G out, 8G in, 19G ttl in tank) > > - Treated each G of new water with 1tsp salt and .1cc Prime > > - 5PM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to 10ppm > > - 4.8cc PraziPro @ 5:30PM > > > > I won't stop using the Brita filter, but will use the Prime for PWCs > > until I get the fish through the PraziPro and know what's going on with > > the > > chlorine/chloramines situation. I did notice that the pH dropped 2 points > > with the water treatment. That's probably a good thing. > > > > I dodged a bullet Christmas Eve. I went to the pet store for dog > > food, > > because I also needed to get the aquarium stuff. If hubby had gone, he > > was > > going to surprise me with a small school of neon tetras to put with the > > goldfish. *sigh* I doubt they even have the same environmental needs and > > I > > keep trying to explain that the goldfish have already maxed out the tank > > bio-load, not to mention that they still have health problems. It goes in > > one ear and out the other. His sister has two goldfish in what looks like > > a > > 2.5 gallon tank and they're "just fine." Hubby wants me to stunt my fish > > so > > they don't turn into carps. I'll rehome them and shut down the aquarium > > before I do that. I've put too much work into getting them healthy. > > > > Oops. Bedtime. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:48 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Yes, I remember this set of readings. With day 2 already having .25 > > ppm of ammonia, this would seem quite sudden -- and to me, suspicious > > although I could be wrong. By your 1st day result for ammonia, it > > would not appear as though you have chloramine in your tap water, > > although I would still prefer the reply from your water company to be > > sure. > > > > If you need to do a PWC before the third day, removing a portion of > > the PraziPro in doing this, yes you should replace the portion of > > PraziPro you removed at that time. You cannot expect the medication > > to perform as though it were at full strength, when you remove some > > of it. If, for instance, you remove and replace 6 gallons of water > > as a PWC of your tank of 18 gallons, you'll need to replace 1/3 of > > the amount of PraziPro you initially started with. The aquarium- > > solution strength PraziPro requires you use 1 tps per 20 gallons (6 > > drops less for 18 gallons); for 6 gallons, you'd need to replace a > > bit less than 1/3 of a tsp (or 18 drops). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > >> > >> - Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): > >> day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: > >> 0ppm > >> 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > >> 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > >> > >> - The question about treating the replacement water was for > > PraziPro if I > >> need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. > >> > >> DebR and the Three Goldfish > >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > >> > >> > >> A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it > >> appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water supply, as > >> the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. CB > >> may be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two > >> fish, which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish > > eating > >> is a good sign, and encouraging to see. > >> > >> If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, dechlor > >> will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of it. > >> Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of > > chloramine > >> and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter > > may > >> be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what you > >> have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing > > the > >> chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for > > removing > >> chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be able > > to > >> treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that would > >> otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water > >> containing chlorine. > >> > >> The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, if > > it > >> turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this > >> ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your > >> having chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from any > >> other source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done right > >> now. > >> > >> If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be aware > >> that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter > > can > >> create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as > > your > >> Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly > >> reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it without > >> filtering it out. > >> > >> A good change to fresh water before introducing another medication > > is > >> always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's > >> rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK (?) > >> I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm > >> reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and I'm > >> assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you should > >> ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You should > >> NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 gallon > >> PWC on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or > >> dechlor, if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, not > >> 20 gallons. Ray > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > >> <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > >> > > >> > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update > >> later > >> > tonight. > >> > > >> > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my > >> Baseline tests > >> > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. > > I'll > >> verify > >> > that before my post tonight. > >> > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a > > picture. > >> > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest > >> more than > >> > the others. > >> > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap > >> filter. > >> > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the > >> Prime. For > >> > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the > >> filter, but > >> > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water > > before > >> I do > >> > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the > >> fish don't > >> > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. > >> > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at > >> least 3 > >> > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I > >> need to do > >> > a PWC before then? > >> > > >> > More later. > >> > > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish > >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > >> > > >> > > >> > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now > > beginning > >> > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results > > remaining > >> > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest > >> > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner > > in > >> > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I > >> > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your > >> water > >> > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far > >> > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria > > should > >> > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, > >> > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect > > to > >> > keep up. We'll work on it though. > >> > > >> > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not > >> especially > >> > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters > >> > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop > >> > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they > > do > >> > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development > >> of > >> > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of > >> > Lucille, showing these streaks? > >> > > >> > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat > > for > >> > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe > > to > >> > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in > >> conjuction > >> > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild > >> medication, > >> > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. > >> > > >> > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition > > to > >> > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) > > need > >> > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine > > in > >> > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you > >> do > >> > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but > >> > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that > > your > >> > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or > >> may > >> > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you > >> have > >> > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water > >> > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been > >> using > >> > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you > > should > >> > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an > >> > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only > >> > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue > > to > >> > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste > >> > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is > > in > >> > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. > >> > Ray > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > >> > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) > >> > > > >> > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly > >> > under .25ppm; > >> > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm > >> > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM > >> > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM > >> > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G > >> > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have > >> an > >> > > airstone) > >> > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged > >> > > > >> > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the > >> Prime > >> > and also > >> > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep > >> > telling myself > >> > > to get it and I keep forgetting. > >> > > > >> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > >> > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34916	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

Yes, PetsMart will do a water test for you but they typically use the dip sticks which would be less reliable than your kit but nothing wrong with having it done for comparative purposes. Either have them write down the results in numbers or you do it yourself. DO NOT accept "It's OK" or "It's a little high" as an answer. If the test kit they are using only gives Good, Fair or Bad type answers, then I wouldn't rely on that test kit at all. You could also ask the LFS to test it for further confirmation. Why are you concerned about your test results? They seem to have been consistent and in line with what was going on in your tank. I certainly would like to see the ammonia and nitrite staying consistently at zero which is where they will be once the tank is fully cycled. At least you are starting off with zero nitrates from your tap and seeing the nitrates rise in the tank which means your nitrogen cycle is working.. just not up to 100% yet. The blood color you are seeing on the end of the tail, rather than blood veins starting at the base of the tail, could just be some of the redness/inflammation that will happen on the end of fins when there are fin rot bacterial infections and that sounds like what was happening to CB's tail. Hopefully, the elevated salt levels killed off this bacteria and created added slime coat to help the goldfish ward it off further. Goldfish are not typically fin nippers. The males will push and prod the females vent area during mating times and this can get rather aggressive but deterioration in finnage is usually related to bacterial issues as a result of poor water quality issues. Hopefully this is all it was and you don't have a fin nipping Hannibal Lector goldfish. I'm wondering if the sloughing off of rotted fin didn't look like flake food to Lucille who thought he/she was getting food rather than fin... they say it all tastes like chicken.;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) Saturday Night Check in (Day 10 of reduced salt - 26 total): - Baseline #1 on straight tap water: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Tank (midnight): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm - CB has been very active today - almost back to normal. I figured since the fungus is a thing of the past I should probably change the subject line. Noting the Ammonia level, since I gave the PraziPro yesterday at 5pm, should I do a PWC and treat the replacement water with PraziPro or should I just add more Prime to control the ammonia? I'm looking for someplace to take a water sample from the aquarium and have it tested so I can tell if my kit is giving me accurate results. Will PetSmart do that kind of thing? I only know of one LFS and as I said before it's kind of a dirty little place. I might buy sealed containers of fish products, but I wouldn't buy any fish there and I'm not so sure I'd trust their advice. Also, since everyone agrees that Lucille probably doesn't have Septicemia, should I stop replacing salt with any PWCs? I really don't think it's a color change. It looks much more like blood to me. Someone mentioned about CB's tail is so short. It was longer in spots, but raggedy, and the raggedy bits finally fell off, but the tail seems to be growing back some, now. Now that the fish are acting healthier, I do notice Lucille nipping at CB's tail sometimes. I had originally suspected that both CB's and Raven's tails had been nibbled on. In a 10 gallon tank, where could they have escaped to? Hopefully, I can keep Lucille entertained enough and give CB places to hide. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) --------------------Insertion for continuity--------------- Deb, As \\Steve// suggests (points out), usually as a normal progression of Hemorrhagic Septicemia in fish, it will be noted as starting at the base of the fins -- not as starting at the exterior finges of the fins. While I couldn't get a very clear picture, it doesn't seem as if this condition exists in your fish. Of course, keep us advised of any changes. Its quite normal for many Goldfish to change color and color patterns as they grow, and as your's are resuming growth, this may well be what is taking place. This generally occurs when they are slightly older -- and by this, its conceded that along with the slight additional age at which this occurs, the fish would naturally be larger. As your fish may have been held back in growth, and may not be indicative of this phenomenon, their age may be sufficient for them to start undergoing these changes, but keep us posted. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I tried to get pictures and they're just too fuzzy. I did get a short > video, though, that might be clear enough: > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU > <http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU> > OR > http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail <http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ---------------End insertion for continuity--------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > Friday Night Check in (Day 9 of Reduced Salt - 25 Days total)(Starting > PraziPro): > > Wed (Christmas Eve): > - 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; > Nitrate: > 5 to 10ppm > - 1tsp Amquel+ @ 11AM (2nd half of dose) > > Thu (Christmas Day): > - 11AM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to > 10ppm > - .5cc Prime @ 1PM (I wouldn't normally do this, but there was no time > for a PWC and I wanted to keep the ammonia down until Friday) > - Midnight: Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0 to .25ppm; Nitrate: > almost 10ppm > - 1cc Prime @ midnight (same reasoning- had to way the risk of extra > Prime against that of too much Ammonia) > > Fri (today): > - PWC @ 3PM (7G out, 8G in, 19G ttl in tank) > - Treated each G of new water with 1tsp salt and .1cc Prime > - 5PM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to > 10ppm > - 4.8cc PraziPro @ 5:30PM > > I won't stop using the Brita filter, but will use the Prime for PWCs > until I get the fish through the PraziPro and know what's going on > with the chlorine/chloramines situation. I did notice that the pH > dropped 2 points with the water treatment. That's probably a good > thing. > > I dodged a bullet Christmas Eve. I went to the pet store for dog food, > because I also needed to get the aquarium stuff. If hubby had gone, he > was going to surprise me with a small school of neon tetras to put > with the goldfish. *sigh* I doubt they even have the same > environmental needs and I keep trying to explain that the goldfish > have already maxed out the tank bio-load, not to mention that they > still have health problems. It goes in one ear and out the other. His > sister has two goldfish in what looks like a > 2.5 gallon tank and they're "just fine." Hubby wants me to stunt my > fish so they don't turn into carps. I'll rehome them and shut down the > aquarium before I do that. I've put too much work into getting them > healthy. > > Oops. Bedtime. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:48 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Yes, I remember this set of readings. With day 2 already having .25 > ppm of ammonia, this would seem quite sudden -- and to me, suspicious > although I could be wrong. By your 1st day result for ammonia, it > would not appear as though you have chloramine in your tap water, > although I would still prefer the reply from your water company to be > sure. > > If you need to do a PWC before the third day, removing a portion of > the PraziPro in doing this, yes you should replace the portion of > PraziPro you removed at that time. You cannot expect the medication to > perform as though it were at full strength, when you remove some of > it. If, for instance, you remove and replace 6 gallons of water as a > PWC of your tank of 18 gallons, you'll need to replace 1/3 of the > amount of PraziPro you initially started with. The aquarium- solution > strength PraziPro requires you use 1 tps per 20 gallons (6 drops less > for 18 gallons); for 6 gallons, you'd need to replace a bit less than > 1/3 of a tsp (or 18 drops). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: >> >> - Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): >> day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: >> 0ppm >> 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm >> 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm >> >> - The question about treating the replacement water was for > PraziPro if I >> need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> >> >> A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it >> appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water supply, as >> the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. CB may >> be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two fish, >> which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish > eating >> is a good sign, and encouraging to see. >> >> If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, dechlor >> will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of it. >> Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of > chloramine >> and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter > may >> be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what you >> have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing > the >> chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for > removing >> chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be able > to >> treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that would >> otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water >> containing chlorine. >> >> The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, if > it >> turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this >> ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your having >> chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from any other >> source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done right now. >> >> If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be aware >> that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter > can >> create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as > your >> Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly >> reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it without >> filtering it out. >> >> A good change to fresh water before introducing another medication > is >> always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's >> rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK (?) >> I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm >> reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and I'm >> assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you should >> ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You should >> NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 gallon PWC >> on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or dechlor, >> if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, not 20 >> gallons. Ray >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" >> <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> > >> > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update >> later >> > tonight. >> > >> > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my >> Baseline tests >> > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. > I'll >> verify >> > that before my post tonight. >> > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a > picture. >> > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest >> more than >> > the others. >> > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap >> filter. >> > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the >> Prime. For >> > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the >> filter, but >> > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water > before >> I do >> > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the >> fish don't >> > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. >> > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at >> least 3 >> > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I >> need to do >> > a PWC before then? >> > >> > More later. >> > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> > >> > >> > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now > beginning >> > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results > remaining >> > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest >> > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner > in >> > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I >> > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your >> water >> > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far >> > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria > should >> > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, >> > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect > to >> > keep up. We'll work on it though. >> > >> > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not >> especially >> > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters >> > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop >> > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they > do >> > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development >> of >> > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of >> > Lucille, showing these streaks? >> > >> > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat > for >> > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe > to >> > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in >> conjuction >> > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild >> medication, >> > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. >> > >> > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition > to >> > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) > need >> > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine > in >> > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you >> do >> > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but >> > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that > your >> > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or >> may >> > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you >> have >> > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water >> > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been >> using >> > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you > should >> > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an >> > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only >> > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue > to >> > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste >> > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is > in >> > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. >> > Ray >> > >> > >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" >> > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) >> > > >> > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly >> > under .25ppm; >> > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm >> > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM >> > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM >> > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G >> > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have >> an >> > > airstone) >> > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged >> > > >> > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the >> Prime >> > and also >> > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep >> > telling myself >> > > to get it and I keep forgetting. >> > > >> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34917	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn

I witnessed my first attempted Synodontis Multipunctatus spawn yesterday, what a surprise! My Pseudotropheus Demasoni (cichlids) were spawning on the in-tank background near the top when the catfish became interested. The cichlids use the background because the catfish won’t leave them alone on horizontal surfaces, LOL. In spite of that I have plenty of cichlid spawns, during Thanksgiving I stripped 2 Demasoni and 2 Labs who happened to be holding when I moved the Malawi to their new 75G tank. I watched the pair of cichlids do their slow spawning circles and saw the female lay an egg or two every second or third circle. She had to be quick to pick it up (she is a mouthbrooder) before it fell to the substrate. The catfish chased them off. This happened several times until out of the corner of my eye I saw a cloud of eggs that looked just like the Demasoni eggs released mid-water. Of course this attracted the entire tank population who snapped them up yum, yum! At first I thought it was the Demasoni who had either released the cloud or lost the mouthful she already picked up. But it seemed to be a LOT of eggs for her size and I have never seen a Demasoni release more than 3 eggs at a time. Then I wondered if it could have been the catfish. I watched some more while the Demasoni and Multipunctatus repeated the behaviors and this time I saw the Multipunctatus release another cloud of eggs. I have no idea whether the cichlids that snapped up the eggs both times just had a snack, or I might have a holding Mom or two with a kitty brooding in her mouth! (I had at least 3 females already holding eggs in the tank.) _____ From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@...] Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:48 AM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Mike, I was replying to Dora’s “vampire” reaction to the Syno’s. I keep them too. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Hi Donna, It was not intended to be "Gruesome" as you put it. No, the parents do not need to the cichlids to survive. However their intended catfish Offspring do need the host cichlid to survive. To date I have not heard of them succesfully raising fry without a host cichlid. If there is a means please share it with me as I would like some catfish babies :) I do not think I wrote my comments to lead someone to think the parents need cichlids to survive, only their offspring. As far as keeping just any fish that was a carnivore? I keep the fish that interest me. Living in California I am not "Allowed" by the Nannys at fish and game to have Pirhana. If I could I might have a tank of them, but not to feed live critters to, but because the fish interest me. These fish are indeed carnivores but an Oscar could also be considered a carnivore and I think they are great fish, had them and want them again. -Mike Just another form of predation. You wouldn’t keep any fish that was a carnivore? It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It’s not something they need to do to live just to reproduce. -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 7:56 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Just another form of predation. You wouldn’t ke ep any fish that was a carnivore? It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It’s not something they need to do to live just to reproduce. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? They are beautiful catfish for one. Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care cichlids have for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish interfere with this behavior to have their own young survive. I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had any fry. They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the tank from their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. Whenever I see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and watch for the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot saucer in the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their chosen place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? People actually want catfish whose only goal in life is to vampirize baby cichlids? Why? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babie s. Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. I suppose they're good for tank birth control. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". The parasitic catfis h, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to 6". The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 A I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them to be happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <johchance1@aol. <mai lto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would you need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a good profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is a source of good profiles on most FW fi sh that you might be interested in. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original mess age MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to th e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34918	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo/ RAY

Actually the funny part was any LFS or box store I called didnt have it in. In Suffolk County there is one central Distribution center that most of the LFS buy from. If they dont have it no one does. Companies dont seem to like to distribute to Long Island because of the traffic that occurs when driving across the boroughs. there is no other way in and its a pain in the butt. So if its not in demand no one keeps it in stock. 4 LFS said they could order it for me but it wont show up till after New Years.... The big box stores hire kids off the street and dont seem to know what I was talking about. Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: > > it should be made aware that if you have access to most any good LFS in the States, > Metronidazole is readily available as the main ingredient (or SOLE > ingredient) of a variety of different medications, produced by a number > of different manufacturers > > Thanks Ray, i am making a list of possible things to get next time i cross the border :) > when it comes to certain meds up here in Canada they are very hard to get :) > > Darlene > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34919	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn

With re-reading your post over 3 times, I see mention of only one Synodontis multipunctata -- the catfish that was releasing clouds of eggs. It appears you are fogetting one slight detail, unless you've left this out for some unexplained reason -- there's no mention of a male S. multipunctata. Without the presence of a male Synodonyis, there is no possibility for the eggs to be fertilized; the Pseudotropheus demasoni male cannot fertilize Synodontis eggs. The tank's population obviously had a nice snack, unless they are holding unfertilized eggs (LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I witnessed my first attempted Synodontis Multipunctatus spawn yesterday, > what a surprise! > > > > My Pseudotropheus Demasoni (cichlids) were spawning on the in-tank > background near the top when the catfish became interested. The cichlids > use the background because the catfish won't leave them alone on horizontal > surfaces, LOL. In spite of that I have plenty of cichlid spawns, during > Thanksgiving I stripped 2 Demasoni and 2 Labs who happened to be holding > when I moved the Malawi to their new 75G tank. > > > > I watched the pair of cichlids do their slow spawning circles and saw the > female lay an egg or two every second or third circle. She had to be quick > to pick it up (she is a mouthbrooder) before it fell to the substrate. The > catfish chased them off. This happened several times until out of the > corner of my eye I saw a cloud of eggs that looked just like the Demasoni > eggs released mid-water. Of course this attracted the entire tank > population who snapped them up yum, yum! > > > > At first I thought it was the Demasoni who had either released the cloud or > lost the mouthful she already picked up. But it seemed to be a LOT of eggs > for her size and I have never seen a Demasoni release more than 3 eggs at a > time. Then I wondered if it could have been the catfish. > > > > I watched some more while the Demasoni and Multipunctatus repeated the > behaviors and this time I saw the Multipunctatus release another cloud of > eggs. > > > > I have no idea whether the cichlids that snapped up the eggs both times just > had a snack, or I might have a holding Mom or two with a kitty brooding in > her mouth! (I had at least 3 females already holding eggs in the tank.) > > > > _____ > > From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@...] > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:48 AM > To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Mike, I was replying to Dora's "vampire" reaction to the Syno's. I keep > them too. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Hi Donna, > > It was not intended to be "Gruesome" as you put it. > > No, the parents do not need to the cichlids to survive. However their > intended catfish Offspring do need the host cichlid to survive. To date I > have not heard of them succesfully raising fry without a host cichlid. If > there is a means please share it with me as I would like some catfish babies > :) > > I do not think I wrote my comments to lead someone to think the parents need > cichlids to survive, only their offspring. > > As far as keeping just any fish that was a carnivore? I keep the fish that > interest me. Living in California I am not "Allowed" by the Nannys at fish > and game to have Pirhana. If I could I might have a tank of them, but not to > feed live critters to, but because the fish interest me. These fish are > indeed carnivores but an Oscar could also be considered a carnivore and I > think they are great fish, had them and want them again. > > -Mike > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't keep any fish that was a > carnivore? > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not something > they need to do to live just to reproduce. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome% 40optonline.net> > .net> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 7:56 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't ke > ep any fish that was a > carnivore? > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not something > they need to do to live just to reproduce. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > They are beautiful catfish for one. > > Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care cichlids have > for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish interfere with > this behavior to have their own young survive. > > I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had any fry. > They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the tank from > their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. Whenever I > see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and watch for > the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot saucer in > the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their chosen > place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > People actually want catfish whose only goal in > life is to vampirize baby > cichlids? > > Why? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But > most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the > cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babie > s. > > Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. > > I suppose they're good for tank birth control. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". > > The parasitic catfis > h, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to > 6". > > The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? > Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". > > I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". > > That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. > > 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 > A > I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow > to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small > cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It > seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet > > or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them > to be happy. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <johchance1@aol. <mai > lto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga > > In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: > > For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would > you > need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between > PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the > fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many > stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally > puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a > good > profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. > <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> > Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is > a source of good profiles > on > most FW fi > sh that you might be interested in. > http://fish. <http://fish. > <http://fish. <http://fish. > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original mess > age MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > th > e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to > a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34920	From: bill1433	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

While we were talking about insulating tanks some time back the use of rigid Styrofoam was mentioned. � Can anyone tell me, �Is it a good idea to place this under the tank for damage control and protection of the wood furniture beneath the tank�? �Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34921	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn

I have five Multipunctata they usually travel in groups of two or three. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn With re-reading your post over 3 times, I see mention of only one Synodontis multipunctata -- the catfish that was releasing clouds of eggs. It appears you are fogetting one slight detail, unless you've left this out for some unexplained reason -- there's no mention of a male S. multipunctata. Without the presence of a male Synodonyis, there is no possibility for the eggs to be fertilized; the Pseudotropheus demasoni male cannot fertilize Synodontis eggs. The tank's population obviously had a nice snack, unless they are holding unfertilized eggs (LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I witnessed my first attempted Synodontis Multipunctatus spawn yesterday, > what a surprise! > > > > My Pseudotropheus Demasoni (cichlids) were spawning on the in-tank > background near the top when the catfish became interested. The cichlids > use the background because the catfish won't leave them alone on horizontal > surfaces, LOL. In spite of that I have plenty of cichlid spawns, during > Thanksgiving I stripped 2 Demasoni and 2 Labs who happened to be holding > when I moved the Malawi to their new 75G tank. > > > > I watched the pair of cichlids do their slow spawning circles and saw the > female lay an egg or two every second or third circle. She had to be quick > to pick it up (she is a mouthbrooder) before it fell to the substrate. The > catfish chased them off. This happened several times until out of the > corner of my eye I saw a cloud of eggs that looked just like the Demasoni > eggs released mid-water. Of course this attracted the entire tank > population who snapped them up yum, yum! > > > > At first I thought it was the Demasoni who had either released the cloud or > lost the mouthful she already picked up. But it seemed to be a LOT of eggs > for her size and I have never seen a Demasoni release more than 3 eggs at a > time. Then I wondered if it could have been the catfish. > > > > I watched some more while the Demasoni and Multipunctatus repeated the > behaviors and this time I saw the Multipunctatus release another cloud of > eggs. > > > > I have no idea whether the cichlids that snapped up the eggs both times just > had a snack, or I might have a holding Mom or two with a kitty brooding in > her mouth! (I had at least 3 females already holding eggs in the tank.) > > > > _____ > > From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@...] > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:48 AM > To: 'AquaticLife@ <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Mike, I was replying to Dora's "vampire" reaction to the Syno's. I keep > them too. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Hi Donna, > > It was not intended to be "Gruesome" as you put it. > > No, the parents do not need to the cichlids to survive. However their > intended catfish Offspring do need the host cichlid to survive. To date I > have not heard of them succesfully raising fry without a host cichlid. If > there is a means please share it with me as I would like some catfish babies > :) > > I do not think I wrote my comments to lead someone to think the parents need > cichlids to survive, only their offspring. > > As far as keeping just any fish that was a carnivore? I keep the fish that > interest me. Living in California I am not "Allowed" by the Nannys at fish > and game to have Pirhana. If I could I might have a tank of them, but not to > feed live critters to, but because the fish interest me. These fish are > indeed carnivores but an Oscar could also be considered a carnivore and I > think they are great fish, had them and want them again. > > -Mike > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't keep any fish that was a > carnivore? > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not something > they need to do to live just to reproduce. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome% 40optonline.net> > .net> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 7:56 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't ke > ep any fish that was a > carnivore? > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers that have > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not something > they need to do to live just to reproduce. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > They are beautiful catfish for one. > > Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care cichlids have > for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish interfere with > this behavior to have their own young survive. > > I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had any fry. > They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the tank from > their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. Whenever I > see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and watch for > the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot saucer in > the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their chosen > place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > People actually want catfish whose only goal in > life is to vampirize baby > cichlids? > > Why? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. But > most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X what the > cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as babie > s. > > Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. > > I suppose they're good for tank birth control. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". > > The parasitic catfis > h, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to > 6". > > The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? > Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". > > I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". > > That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. > > 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 > A > I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they only grow > to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very small > cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? It > seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or five feet > > or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond for them > to be happy. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <johchance1@aol. <mai > lto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga > > In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: > > For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only would > you > need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste between > PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for the > fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read many > stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally > puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a > good > profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. > <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> > Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is > a source of good profiles > on > most FW fi > sh that you might be interested in. > http://fish. <http://fish. > <http://fish. <http://fish. > <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original mess > age MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > th > e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to > a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34922	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

Bill, While styro will not pass water easily, for aesthetic purposes, the piece you would use under the tank would merely be the size of the tank itself. Any water that would seap under it would have a tendency to stay there, and subsequently damage the wood. Such damage, if noted by your loving spouse, may, however, considerably shorten your lifespan. Having said that, if there are any imperfections in the surface on which you are placing the tank, the styro can smooth these over and ensure an even contact between the base of the tank and the stand. Keep in mind, though, if the stand is not level, the styro will not make it level for you. It just provides a layer of protection. Those who keep bare bottom tanks may also use styro to block the view through the bottom glass, which will help the comfort level of the fish if they are using open framed stands or racks. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > While we were talking about insulating tanks some time back > the use of rigid Styrofoam was mentioned. > > Can anyone tell me, "Is it a good idea to place this under the tank > for damage control and protection of the wood furniture beneath the tank"? >  Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34923	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

I'm not sure if it's a plus or minus. If your tank is going to be a solid wood surface (with no plastic laminate), then the styrofoam would offer some protection against scratching but the bigger worry would be the occasional spills that happen when doing tank maintenance and the water can wick under the tank or the styrofoam and there's no way for you to dry it so it will cause water staining and worse over years and years of repeated water penetration. Now.. if the table top is the same size as the tank, there's less of a chance of water wicking under the tank or foam since the water would flow straight down to the floor.. which is why most stands are the same size as the tanks designed to sit on them... and/or they have formica finishes. If you really want to protect the wood surface, then a piece of plexiglass, thick enough real glass or other water proof material (laminate, formica etc.) cut to the same size as the top of the furniture would afford better protection. You still might get water wicking under the tank but it wouldn't penetrate the added material so it wouldn't get to the wood. At least the plexiglass, real glass or laminate would not look as unsightly as the styrofoam if you were going to extend it out beyond the bottom of the tank. If you ever face potential winter power outages, then putting the foam under the tank and also having other pre-cut pieces ready to go on all sides of the tank and slap some duct tape on all the seams which would help keep the water temp more stabile... although with a prolonged outage, the temp could still drop down too low if you don't have auxiliary power or a fireplace, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:48 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? While we were talking about insulating tanks some time back the use of rigid Styrofoam was mentioned.   Can anyone tell me, “Is it a good idea to place this under the tank for damage control and protection of the wood furniture beneath the tank”?  Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34924	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

On the other hand, some tank warranties are void if you place anything between the tank and the stand. I don’t use Styrofoam. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 12:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? Bill, While styro will not pass water easily, for aesthetic purposes, the piece you would use under the tank would merely be the size of the tank itself. Any water that would seap under it would have a tendency to stay there, and subsequently damage the wood. Such damage, if noted by your loving spouse, may, however, considerably shorten your lifespan. Having said that, if there are any imperfections in the surface on which you are placing the tank, the styro can smooth these over and ensure an even contact between the base of the tank and the stand. Keep in mind, though, if the stand is not level, the styro will not make it level for you. It just provides a layer of protection. Those who keep bare bottom tanks may also use styro to block the view through the bottom glass, which will help the comfort level of the fish if they are using open framed stands or racks. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > While we were talking about insulating tanks some time back > the use of rigid Styrofoam was mentioned. > > Can anyone tell me, "Is it a good idea to place this under the tank > for damage control and protection of the wood furniture beneath the tank"? > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34925	From: pam andress	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

I know some people that put it under the tank to level it if the floor is not level. When I move, I'm hoping to remember this and when I reset up my tanks I want to do it. I figure it will also help with heat loss in the winter. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

\\Steve// already preemptively answered this but foam will not level a tank. Any compression of the foam will be done across the entire piece of foam equally so if the stand is not level before the foam, it won't be afterwards. You are better off using shims under the bottom of the stand to level it first to compensate for any floor sag and then as you fill the tank, you may have to shim even more. Putting a larger tank (55G+) on a load bearing wall will help prevent sagging floors in raised homes but shims may still be needed. Believe me, some of these 200+ year old homes in N'Awlins are built like fortresses (they've withstood many, many hurricanes) but the floors still sag like crazy in many of them. You can feel them bounce when you walk on them. I've almost always had to use shims on the front of my stands even when putting them parallel with a load bearing wall, to keep them from leaning forward. Once, for one of my customers, I even put braces on the back/top of the stand and screwed them into wall studs to make sure the thing wasn't going to lean forward over time since they had to put the tank in a hallway on an inside non-load bearing wall (most of your external walls will have some load bearing capacity). I've never gotten one perfect yet but within a 1/8" margin. Then you just have to fill up the water line above the top tank brace so you don't see the leaning water line. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:37 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? I know some people that put it under the tank to level it if the floor is not level. When I move, I'm hoping to remember this and when I reset up my tanks I want to do it. I figure it will also help with heat loss in the winter. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34927	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

When I lived on the second floor of an old farmhouse, and had ready access to hardwood flooring, I laid down the flooring perpendicular to the extant flooring (may have been hardwood, but looked like pine) against what I hoped was a load bearing wall (the rooms were larger than the age of the house would have dictated, but this one still had horsehair plaster) to make a base slightly longer and wider than the tanks I would set up there, and leveled that using cedar shingles, also easy to come by and inexpensive at the time. Checking the level as I went along, I set up and filled the tanks, and found I needed to do a bit more leveling as I went along. I did not get it perfectly level, but it was level enough for several years of use, until I moved elsewhere. Remember the cedar shingles. They are ready made for shimming with the thickness at one end being very thin, and thickening toward the other end. They can be easily split to fit, and cutting is easy. The only real problem is that they have a tendency to compress over time, and you may need to re-level the tank as some point in the future. While it is not real easy to do so with an established tank, a massive water change can help lessen the weight when you need to do this. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > \\Steve// already preemptively answered this but foam will not level a tank. > Any compression of the foam will be done across the entire piece of foam > equally so if the stand is not level before the foam, it won't be > afterwards. > > You are better off using shims under the bottom of the stand to level it > first to compensate for any floor sag and then as you fill the tank, you may > have to shim even more. Putting a larger tank (55G+) on a load bearing wall > will help prevent sagging floors in raised homes but shims may still be > needed. > > Believe me, some of these 200+ year old homes in N'Awlins are built like > fortresses (they've withstood many, many hurricanes) but the floors still > sag like crazy in many of them. You can feel them bounce when you walk on > them. I've almost always had to use shims on the front of my stands even > when putting them parallel with a load bearing wall, to keep them from > leaning forward. Once, for one of my customers, I even put braces on the > back/top of the stand and screwed them into wall studs to make sure the > thing wasn't going to lean forward over time since they had to put the tank > in a hallway on an inside non-load bearing wall (most of your external walls > will have some load bearing capacity). I've never gotten one perfect yet > but within a 1/8" margin. Then you just have to fill up the water line > above the top tank brace so you don't see the leaning water line. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:37 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > > I know some people that put it under the tank to level it if the floor is > not level. When I move, I'm hoping to remember this and when I reset up my > tanks I want to do it. I figure it will also help with heat loss in the > winter. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34928	From: William	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

I built my own stands and put the Styrofoam under the tanks just to make sure that the tops of the stands will be cushioned against any irregularities on the top of the stand. Even when I would get iron stands I would put Styrofoam under the tank to take up any irregularities such as the weld or even a piece of gravel. It would not level the tank but help to distribute the weight of the tank over the whole underneath of the tank.Especially on large tanks a piece of gravel between the tank and the stand can put lots of pressure and may even cause a pressure crack. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > \\Steve// already preemptively answered this but foam will not level a tank. > Any compression of the foam will be done across the entire piece of foam > equally so if the stand is not level before the foam, it won't be > afterwards. > > You are better off using shims under the bottom of the stand to level it > first to compensate for any floor sag and then as you fill the tank, you may > have to shim even more. Putting a larger tank (55G+) on a load bearing wall > will help prevent sagging floors in raised homes but shims may still be > needed. > > Believe me, some of these 200+ year old homes in N'Awlins are built like > fortresses (they've withstood many, many hurricanes) but the floors still > sag like crazy in many of them. You can feel them bounce when you walk on > them. I've almost always had to use shims on the front of my stands even > when putting them parallel with a load bearing wall, to keep them from > leaning forward. Once, for one of my customers, I even put braces on the > back/top of the stand and screwed them into wall studs to make sure the > thing wasn't going to lean forward over time since they had to put the tank > in a hallway on an inside non-load bearing wall (most of your external walls > will have some load bearing capacity). I've never gotten one perfect yet > but within a 1/8" margin. Then you just have to fill up the water line > above the top tank brace so you don't see the leaning water line. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:37 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > > I know some people that put it under the tank to level it if the floor is > not level. When I move, I'm hoping to remember this and when I reset up my > tanks I want to do it. I figure it will also help with heat loss in the > winter. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34929	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo/ RAY

That's very odd that at least one of your LFS's didn't have at least one of the brands of medications containing Metronidazole, not that you needed it anyway. Yes, I know exactly what you mean when you say there is only one central distribution center of aquaium supplies out on Long Island. The only aquarium dry goods wholesaler out your way is Royal Pet Supply headquartered in Brentwood. I know them well; the firms president is a gentleman by the name of Stephen Augenstein and his distribution manager is Mike Voyias. They're instrumental in supplying us (NJAS) with donations of all types to benefit our annual shows which have been most appreciated over the decades -- they're more than generous. I know all too well about the traffic that can occur while driving through the NYC area boroughs and counties (Nassua & Suffolk) of L.I., and the few access routes that exist to gain access to your area. Back when I was importing fish, I had a number of customers out on Long Island -- one in particular was Aquarium Imports in Amittyville. I used to either drive the Southern State Parkway or the Long Island Expressway and then Route 110 to reach him. No problem running out there early in the morning as the traffic was mostly going the opposite way, to New York City, but it was a nightmare going back with that flow during that "rush hour" period. The trips I needed to make, to JFK International Airport were no fun either when I had shipments coming in, as Newark (NJ) Airport was not yet an International Airport at that time and didn't receive overseas flights. I often scheduled flights to arrive at JFK at 2 or 3AM just so I'd have clear sailing in driving down the Grand Central and Van Wyke Expressways; the only problem was waiting for the customs inspectors at that time of the morning, although they were on duty 24 hours a day -- and the long morning ahead of me putting the fish away. I would not have expected any of the big box stores to carry anything out of the ordinary or the most called-for items. They're not there to make things easier for their customers, but to make it the most convenient and profitable way to enrich their stores. You no doubt saw where I mentioned that while your fish may have had Hexamita (undetermined, but tentatively suggested by its refusal to eat), this had nothing to do with any possible HITH, which your fish didn't appear to have. Metronidazole is often recommended for treating HITH, although I missed how that became a subject in your topic of threads. While I realize I've far from seen or heard about all reports associated with treating Hexamita, every report that I've become aware of always stated that Metronidazole was unsuccessful at treating their Hexamita, so it makes me wonder where that original recommendation started from; I guess old habits die hard. HITH is caused by a similar cestodes flagellate, Spironucleus in conjuction with the ectoparasite Naegleria, a free-swimming amoeba- like pathogen. While similar (related) to Hexamita, Spironucleus does not respond readily to Metronidazole; this disease is best treated with chelated copper, copper sulfate and/or nickle sulfate, but large frequent PWC's by themselves will often promote healing. Got to be extremely careful with copper. There are still a very few cites which erroneously refer to Hexamita as being a synonym for Spironucleus, but almost all others now recognize they are two entirely different pathogens. Shows you still have to watch what you read and choose to believe. If you're still interested in growing out a few Angelfish, I should tell you that I now have the exclusive contract with the PetLand chain of stores in New York City to distribute Angelfish to them. We'll be starting this trade by the middle of January, about 20 store in Manhatten. Have a Happy New Year. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > Actually the funny part was any LFS or box store I called didnt have > it in. In Suffolk County there is one central Distribution center > that most of the LFS buy from. If they dont have it no one does. > Companies dont seem to like to distribute to Long Island because of > the traffic that occurs when driving across the boroughs. there is no > other way in and its a pain in the butt. So if its not in demand no > one keeps it in stock. 4 LFS said they could order it for me but it > wont show up till after New Years.... The big box stores hire kids > off the street and dont seem to know what I was talking about. > > Tom > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Darlene <amazonbirds@> wrote: > > > > it should be made aware that if you have access to most any good > LFS in the States, > > Metronidazole is readily available as the main ingredient (or SOLE > > ingredient) of a variety of different medications, produced by a > number > > of different manufacturers > > > > Thanks Ray, i am making a list of possible things to get next time > i cross the border :) > > when it comes to certain meds up here in Canada they are very hard > to get :) > > > > Darlene > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34930	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn

Okay, GREAT!!! I wasn't aware of other catfish in the tank. If a few of them got into the mix there's a good chance you might have S. multipunctata fry soon. Lots of luck with them -- wishing you the best of success in catfishin'. They're gonna have to be the cutest little guys going, in that neat color pattern, when they're still small little critters running around the bottom of the tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I have five Multipunctata they usually travel in groups of two or three. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: > Synodontis Spawn > > > > With re-reading your post over 3 times, I see mention of only one > Synodontis multipunctata -- the catfish that was releasing clouds of > eggs. It appears you are fogetting one slight detail, unless you've > left this out for some unexplained reason -- there's no mention of a > male S. multipunctata. Without the presence of a male Synodonyis, > there is no possibility for the eggs to be fertilized; the > Pseudotropheus demasoni male cannot fertilize Synodontis eggs. The > tank's population obviously had a nice snack, unless they are holding > unfertilized eggs (LOL). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > I witnessed my first attempted Synodontis Multipunctatus spawn > yesterday, > > what a surprise! > > > > > > > > My Pseudotropheus Demasoni (cichlids) were spawning on the in-tank > > background near the top when the catfish became interested. The > cichlids > > use the background because the catfish won't leave them alone on > horizontal > > surfaces, LOL. In spite of that I have plenty of cichlid spawns, > during > > Thanksgiving I stripped 2 Demasoni and 2 Labs who happened to be > holding > > when I moved the Malawi to their new 75G tank. > > > > > > > > I watched the pair of cichlids do their slow spawning circles and > saw the > > female lay an egg or two every second or third circle. She had to > be quick > > to pick it up (she is a mouthbrooder) before it fell to the > substrate. The > > catfish chased them off. This happened several times until out of > the > > corner of my eye I saw a cloud of eggs that looked just like the > Demasoni > > eggs released mid-water. Of course this attracted the entire tank > > population who snapped them up yum, yum! > > > > > > > > At first I thought it was the Demasoni who had either released the > cloud or > > lost the mouthful she already picked up. But it seemed to be a LOT > of eggs > > for her size and I have never seen a Demasoni release more than 3 > eggs at a > > time. Then I wondered if it could have been the catfish. > > > > > > > > I watched some more while the Demasoni and Multipunctatus repeated > the > > behaviors and this time I saw the Multipunctatus release another > cloud of > > eggs. > > > > > > > > I have no idea whether the cichlids that snapped up the eggs both > times just > > had a snack, or I might have a holding Mom or two with a kitty > brooding in > > her mouth! (I had at least 3 females already holding eggs in the > tank.) > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@] > > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:48 AM > > To: 'AquaticLife@ <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > > > > > Mike, I was replying to Dora's "vampire" reaction to the Syno's. I > keep > > them too. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@ > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > > > > > Hi Donna, > > > > It was not intended to be "Gruesome" as you put it. > > > > No, the parents do not need to the cichlids to survive. However > their > > intended catfish Offspring do need the host cichlid to survive. To > date I > > have not heard of them succesfully raising fry without a host > cichlid. If > > there is a means please share it with me as I would like some > catfish babies > > :) > > > > I do not think I wrote my comments to lead someone to think the > parents need > > cichlids to survive, only their offspring. > > > > As far as keeping just any fish that was a carnivore? I keep the > fish that > > interest me. Living in California I am not "Allowed" by the Nannys > at fish > > and game to have Pirhana. If I could I might have a tank of them, > but not to > > feed live critters to, but because the fish interest me. These fish > are > > indeed carnivores but an Oscar could also be considered a carnivore > and I > > think they are great fish, had them and want them again. > > > > -Mike > > > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't keep any fish that was > a > > carnivore? > > > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers > that have > > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not > something > > they need to do to live just to reproduce. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome% > 40optonline.net> > > .net> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 7:56 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't ke > > ep any fish that was a > > carnivore? > > > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers > that have > > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not > something > > they need to do to live just to reproduce. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > They are beautiful catfish for one. > > > > Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care > cichlids have > > for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish > interfere with > > this behavior to have their own young survive. > > > > I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had > any fry. > > They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the > tank from > > their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. > Whenever I > > see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and > watch for > > the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot > saucer in > > the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their > chosen > > place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > People actually want catfish whose only goal in > > life is to vampirize baby > > cichlids? > > > > Why? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. > But > > most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X > what the > > cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as > babie > > s. > > > > Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. > > > > I suppose they're good for tank birth control. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". > > > > The parasitic catfis > > h, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to > > 6". > > > > The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? > > Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". > > > > I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". > > > > That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. > > > > 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 > > A > > I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they > only grow > > to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very > small > > cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? > It > > seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or > five feet > > > > or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond > for them > > to be happy. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <johchance1@aol. <mai > > lto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga > > > > In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: > > > > For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only > would > > you > > need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste > between > > PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for > the > > fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read > many > > stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally > > puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a > > good > > profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. > > <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> > Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> > > Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is > > a source of good profiles > > on > > most FW fi > > sh that you might be interested in. > > http://fish. <http://fish. > > <http://fish. <http://fish. > > <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original mess > > age MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > th > > e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to > > a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34931	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn

Planetcatfish says to strip in 2 weeks. I’ll have to remove all rocks and strip all holding females, because I didn’t not see anyone specific pick up the eggs. I can tumble any mbuna eggs that are not free swimming. But I AM curious to see if I got any kitties. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 2:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn Okay, GREAT!!! I wasn't aware of other catfish in the tank. If a few of them got into the mix there's a good chance you might have S. multipunctata fry soon. Lots of luck with them -- wishing you the best of success in catfishin'. They're gonna have to be the cutest little guys going, in that neat color pattern, when they're still small little critters running around the bottom of the tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I have five Multipunctata they usually travel in groups of two or three. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: > Synodontis Spawn > > > > With re-reading your post over 3 times, I see mention of only one > Synodontis multipunctata -- the catfish that was releasing clouds of > eggs. It appears you are fogetting one slight detail, unless you've > left this out for some unexplained reason -- there's no mention of a > male S. multipunctata. Without the presence of a male Synodonyis, > there is no possibility for the eggs to be fertilized; the > Pseudotropheus demasoni male cannot fertilize Synodontis eggs. The > tank's population obviously had a nice snack, unless they are holding > unfertilized eggs (LOL). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > I witnessed my first attempted Synodontis Multipunctatus spawn > yesterday, > > what a surprise! > > > > > > > > My Pseudotropheus Demasoni (cichlids) were spawning on the in-tank > > background near the top when the catfish became interested. The > cichlids > > use the background because the catfish won't leave them alone on > horizontal > > surfaces, LOL. In spite of that I have plenty of cichlid spawns, > during > > Thanksgiving I stripped 2 Demasoni and 2 Labs who happened to be > holding > > when I moved the Malawi to their new 75G tank. > > > > > > > > I watched the pair of cichlids do their slow spawning circles and > saw the > > female lay an egg or two every second or third circle. She had to > be quick > > to pick it up (she is a mouthbrooder) before it fell to the > substrate. The > > catfish chased them off. This happened several times until out of > the > > corner of my eye I saw a cloud of eggs that looked just like the > Demasoni > > eggs released mid-water. Of course this attracted the entire tank > > population who snapped them up yum, yum! > > > > > > > > At first I thought it was the Demasoni who had either released the > cloud or > > lost the mouthful she already picked up. But it seemed to be a LOT > of eggs > > for her size and I have never seen a Demasoni release more than 3 > eggs at a > > time. Then I wondered if it could have been the catfish. > > > > > > > > I watched some more while the Demasoni and Multipunctatus repeated > the > > behaviors and this time I saw the Multipunctatus release another > cloud of > > eggs. > > > > > > > > I have no idea whether the cichlids that snapped up the eggs both > times just > > had a snack, or I might have a holding Mom or two with a kitty > brooding in > > her mouth! (I had at least 3 females already holding eggs in the > tank.) > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@] > > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:48 AM > > To: 'AquaticLife@ <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > > > > > Mike, I was replying to Dora's "vampire" reaction to the Syno's. I > keep > > them too. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@ > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > > > > > Hi Donna, > > > > It was not intended to be "Gruesome" as you put it. > > > > No, the parents do not need to the cichlids to survive. However > their > > intended catfish Offspring do need the host cichlid to survive. To > date I > > have not heard of them succesfully raising fry without a host > cichlid. If > > there is a means please share it with me as I would like some > catfish babies > > :) > > > > I do not think I wrote my comments to lead someone to think the > parents need > > cichlids to survive, only their offspring. > > > > As far as keeping just any fish that was a carnivore? I keep the > fish that > > interest me. Living in California I am not "Allowed" by the Nannys > at fish > > and game to have Pirhana. If I could I might have a tank of them, > but not to > > feed live critters to, but because the fish interest me. These fish > are > > indeed carnivores but an Oscar could also be considered a carnivore > and I > > think they are great fish, had them and want them again. > > > > -Mike > > > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't keep any fish that was > a > > carnivore? > > > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers > that have > > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not > something > > they need to do to live just to reproduce. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome% > 40optonline.net> > > .net> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 7:56 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't ke > > ep any fish that was a > > carnivore? > > > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers > that have > > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not > something > > they need to do to live just to reproduce. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > They are beautiful catfish for one. > > > > Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care > cichlids have > > for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish > interfere with > > this behavior to have their own young survive. > > > > I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had > any fry. > > They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the > tank from > > their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. > Whenever I > > see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and > watch for > > the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot > saucer in > > the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their > chosen > > place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > People actually want catfish whose only goal in > > life is to vampirize baby > > cichlids? > > > > Why? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. > But > > most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X > what the > > cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as > babie > > s. > > > > Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. > > > > I suppose they're good for tank birth control. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". > > > > The parasitic catfis > > h, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to > > 6". > > > > The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? > > Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". > > > > I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". > > > > That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. > > > > 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 > > A > > I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they > only grow > > to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very > small > > cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? > It > > seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or > five feet > > > > or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond > for them > > to be happy. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <johchance1@aol. <mai > > lto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga > > > > In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: > > > > For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only > would > > you > > need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste > between > > PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for > the > > fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read > many > > stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally > > puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a > > good > > profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. > > <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> > Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> > > Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is > > a source of good profiles > > on > > most FW fi > > sh that you might be interested in. > > http://fish. <http://fish. > > <http://fish. <http://fish. > > <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original mess > > age MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > th > > e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to > > a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34932	From: Harl Myers	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

Actually the most heat loss is the top, then sides, the bottom would be the least loss of all. I like the idea of Plexiglas under the tank, as it would have such minor imperfections in the surface that contact from the base of the tank would be continuous all around. This is all you hope for in putting a soft filler under the tank. I had a couple of 55 gal. tanks on a home-made iron frame, and I used a construction material called sill seal. It was a thin foam that took up some minor imperfections in the metal surface. Thinking on it now, I think the Plexiglas would have been better. On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 12:37 PM, pam andress <pamandress23@...>wrote: > > I know some people that put it under the tank to level it if the floor is > not level. When I move, I'm hoping to remember this and when I reset up my > tanks I want to do it. I figure it will also help with heat loss in the > winter. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34933	From: bill1433	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

Hi \\Steve//   Yes, it is my shortened your lifespan that gives me concern. Be advised this stuff is dense foam with aluminum sheets attached or bonded to it but I suspect it will serve to protect?  Bill --- On Sun, 12/28/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 12:39 PM Bill, While styro will not pass water easily, for aesthetic purposes, the piece you would use under the tank would merely be the size of the tank itself. Any water that would seap under it would have a tendency to stay there, and subsequently damage the wood. Such damage, if noted by your loving spouse, may, however, considerably shorten your lifespan. Having said that, if there are any imperfections in the surface on which you are placing the tank, the styro can smooth these over and ensure an even contact between the base of the tank and the stand. Keep in mind, though, if the stand is not level, the styro will not make it level for you. It just provides a layer of protection. Those who keep bare bottom tanks may also use styro to block the view through the bottom glass, which will help the comfort level of the fish if they are using open framed stands or racks. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > While we were talking about insulating tanks some time back > the use of rigid Styrofoam was mentioned. > > Can anyone tell me, "Is it a good idea to place this under the tank > for damage control and protection of the wood furniture beneath the tank"? >  Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34934	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

Bill, You still have the chance of water spilled seeping under the Styrofoam, mo matter what form factor it comes in. You do also have that likelihood of just having a bare tank set on the wood surface. Face it, you are dealing with water in a container here. Sooner or later, the water will spill where it should not. The best one can hope for is to minimize any damage that will be caused by that spillage. This is one reason why stands are made for aquaria. You can wipe up spillage you can see, but, inevitably, in the scenario you present, water will seep under the tank and cause damage to the wooden surface under the tank, if not elsewhere. As long as the tank is in place, you probably will be safe. You live a long life and die naturally. Tank is dismantled and damage discovered. From my understanding, you can only die once, you are safe. However, should the tank come down while you are still drawing breath, I hope you have taken up jogging every day so you have at least a chance of out running her. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > Yes, it is my shortened your lifespan that gives me concern. > Be advised this stuff is dense foam with aluminum sheets attached > or bonded to it but I suspect it will serve to protect? >  Bill > --- On Sun, 12/28/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 12:39 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > While styro will not pass water easily, for aesthetic purposes, the piece you would use under > the tank would merely be the size of the tank itself. Any water that would seap under it > would have a tendency to stay there, and subsequently damage the wood. Such damage, if > noted by your loving spouse, may, however, considerably shorten your lifespan. > > Having said that, if there are any imperfections in the surface on which you are placing the > tank, the styro can smooth these over and ensure an even contact between the base of the > tank and the stand. Keep in mind, though, if the stand is not level, the styro will not make it > level for you. It just provides a layer of protection. > > Those who keep bare bottom tanks may also use styro to block the view through the bottom > glass, which will help the comfort level of the fish if they are using open framed stands or > racks. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf > Of > > bill1433 > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:48 AM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > > > While we were talking about insulating tanks some time back > > the use of rigid Styrofoam was mentioned. > > > > Can anyone tell me, "Is it a good idea to place this under the tank > > for damage control and protection of the wood furniture beneath the tank"? > >  Bill > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34935	From: bill1433	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

Gottca!   But now wondering about Len's suggestion, (I think it was Len), cover the top with Plexiglass? It does sound do-able.  Watcha think?   Bill --- On Sun, 12/28/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 6:27 PM Bill, You still have the chance of water spilled seeping under the Styrofoam, mo matter what form factor it comes in. You do also have that likelihood of just having a bare tank set on the wood surface. Face it, you are dealing with water in a container here. Sooner or later, the water will spill where it should not. The best one can hope for is to minimize any damage that will be caused by that spillage. This is one reason why stands are made for aquaria. You can wipe up spillage you can see, but, inevitably, in the scenario you present, water will seep under the tank and cause damage to the wooden surface under the tank, if not elsewhere. As long as the tank is in place, you probably will be safe. You live a long life and die naturally. Tank is dismantled and damage discovered. From my understanding, you can only die once, you are safe. However, should the tank come down while you are still drawing breath, I hope you have taken up jogging every day so you have at least a chance of out running her. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > Yes, it is my shortened your lifespan that gives me concern. > Be advised this stuff is dense foam with aluminum sheets attached > or bonded to it but I suspect it will serve to protect? >  Bill > --- On Sun, 12/28/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 12:39 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > While styro will not pass water easily, for aesthetic purposes, the piece you would use under > the tank would merely be the size of the tank itself. Any water that would seap under it > would have a tendency to stay there, and subsequently damage the wood. Such damage, if > noted by your loving spouse, may, however, considerably shorten your lifespan. > > Having said that, if there are any imperfections in the surface on which you are placing the > tank, the styro can smooth these over and ensure an even contact between the base of the > tank and the stand. Keep in mind, though, if the stand is not level, the styro will not make it > level for you. It just provides a layer of protection. > > Those who keep bare bottom tanks may also use styro to block the view through the bottom > glass, which will help the comfort level of the fish if they are using open framed stands or > racks. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf > Of > > bill1433 > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:48 AM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > > > While we were talking about insulating tanks some time back > > the use of rigid Styrofoam was mentioned. > > > > Can anyone tell me, "Is it a good idea to place this under the tank > > for damage control and protection of the wood furniture beneath the tank"? > >  Bill > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34936	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/28/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

Someone did mention it as a base. If I am not going to place lighting right on top of the tank, plexi would make a nice cover, otherwise, I'd go with glass cut to my specs--one covering about 2/3 of the tank top with cutouts for airlines, filter, heater. And one about 1/3 to use as the opening portion of the lid. You can get a plastic hinge to hold the two together, and some suggest using silicone, though I have never done that, but I have used silicone to make a knob to open the lid for feeding and tank maintenance. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > Gottca! > > But now wondering about Len's suggestion, (I think it was Len), cover the top with Plexiglass? > It does sound do-able.  Watcha think? > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/28/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 6:27 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > You still have the chance of water spilled seeping under the Styrofoam, mo matter what form > factor it comes in. You do also have that likelihood of just having a bare tank set on the wood > surface. Face it, you are dealing with water in a container here. Sooner or later, the water will > spill where it should not. The best one can hope for is to minimize any damage that will be > caused by that spillage. This is one reason why stands are made for aquaria. You can wipe up > spillage you can see, but, inevitably, in the scenario you present, water will seep under the > tank and cause damage to the wooden surface under the tank, if not elsewhere. As long as the > tank is in place, you probably will be safe. You live a long life and die naturally. Tank is > dismantled and damage discovered. From my understanding, you can only die once, you are > safe. However, should the tank come down while you are still drawing breath, I hope you have > taken up jogging every day so you > have at least a chance of out running her. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf > Of > > bill1433 > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > Yes, it is my shortened your lifespan that gives me concern. > > Be advised this stuff is dense foam with aluminum sheets attached > > or bonded to it but I suspect it will serve to protect? > >  Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/28/08, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 12:39 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > While styro will not pass water easily, for aesthetic purposes, the piece you would use under > > the tank would merely be the size of the tank itself. Any water that would seap under it > > would have a tendency to stay there, and subsequently damage the wood. Such damage, if > > noted by your loving spouse, may, however, considerably shorten your lifespan. > > > > Having said that, if there are any imperfections in the surface on which you are placing the > > tank, the styro can smooth these over and ensure an even contact between the base of the > > tank and the stand. Keep in mind, though, if the stand is not level, the styro will not make it > > level for you. It just provides a layer of protection. > > > > Those who keep bare bottom tanks may also use styro to block the view through the bottom > > glass, which will help the comfort level of the fish if they are using open framed stands or > > racks. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf > > Of > > > bill1433 > > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:48 AM > > > To: AquaticLife > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Styrofoam Under A Tank? > > > > > > While we were talking about insulating tanks some time back > > > the use of rigid Styrofoam was mentioned. > > > > > > Can anyone tell me, "Is it a good idea to place this under the tank > > > for damage control and protection of the wood furniture beneath the tank"? > > >  Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34937	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

Sunday Night Check in (Day 11 of reduced salt - 27 total) - I haven't seen a fish resting on the bottom of the tank ALL DAY!!! :-D - Baseline 24 hours: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Tank (wasn't able to do a PWC yet- I'm off to do that as soon as I send this message): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .10 to .15ppm; Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm - 5G PWC (as soon as I sign off) (including 5tsp salt, 1.25ml PraziPro, and .5ml Prime) Does ammonium show up on the ammonia test or if it were all converted, would the test read zero? Is there anything besides PWCs or adding plants that will help remove the nitrates once the tank is completely cycled? Oh criminy, the cat just knocked over the Christmas tree. I'm off to pick it up and do the PWC. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:00 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) Good move on changing the subject line -- and being ABLE to change it. Nice to see that the fungus issue is behind you; that's at least one step in the right direction in getting these fish back to good health. CB's increased activity is even more encouraging than before. Keeping an eye on the ammonia level, I would do an additional PWC (but a somewhat smaller one) at this time, and replace the removed PraziPro, and add Prime with it. While you don't want the ammonia (ammonium) to increase much more, neither do you want to physically remove too much ammonium yet even though ideally you would strive for a zero (0) ammonia level in a fully cycled tank. I'm not fully convinced that your tank is completely cycled yet. You don't want to starve out your nitrifying bacteria -- but happily, your midnight readings indicate your nitrobacters and nitrospinas (nitrite- converting bacteria) are WELL populated as witness the 0 reading of this compound, having been completely converted to nitrate, but for some reason the nitrosomonas and nitrospiras (ammonia-converting bacteria) seem a bit slow and their populations may need building up (and would need food/ammonium with it). The baseline readings certainly make it appear as though your tap water does not contain chloramine, yet an earlier baseline reading of your tap water appeared to be a contradictory enigma when in went from 0.0 to 0.25 the next day. To be assured on this, I'd suggest you still contact your water company tomorrow, as was planned. You might give PetSmart a call on whether they do water testing, before going there, but I tend to doubt that they do (hope I'm wrong). If need be, give the LFS a shot at it while watching for his proper procedures. As long as he makes these tests properly and gives you the actual results (check those readings along with him, if he allows), you don't need to take any further advise from him regarding these readings. I would maintain the salt at its present level for the time being. This amount should not interfere with any of the aquarium's life functions, unless you have plants; I'd wait until you're completely out of the woods with health concerns, and continue watching any further red streaking of any fins. With your suspicion of Raven's and CB's tails being nipped by Lucille now being confirmed, this may be the direct cause of the redness in CB's tail and this salt addition will help prevent any fungusing of the damaged tissue. As I first started reading this account of CB having a shortened and raggedy caudal fin, the disease of fin-rot went through my mind up until I read your sighting of Lucille picking on the other two fish. Hiding places and plant cover do seem in order, but this behavior only increases the need for a larger tank sooner. As this may be pre- spawning behavior on the part of Lucille, you may have to change her (his? name to Louis! (LOL) Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 10 of reduced salt - 26 total): > > - Baseline #1 on straight tap water: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: > 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > - Tank (midnight): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; > Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm > - CB has been very active today - almost back to normal. > > I figured since the fungus is a thing of the past I should probably > change the subject line. > > Noting the Ammonia level, since I gave the PraziPro yesterday at 5pm, > should I do a PWC and treat the replacement water with PraziPro or should I > just add more Prime to control the ammonia? > > I'm looking for someplace to take a water sample from the aquarium and > have it tested so I can tell if my kit is giving me accurate results. Will > PetSmart do that kind of thing? I only know of one LFS and as I said before > it's kind of a dirty little place. I might buy sealed containers of fish > products, but I wouldn't buy any fish there and I'm not so sure I'd trust > their advice. > > Also, since everyone agrees that Lucille probably doesn't have > Septicemia, should I stop replacing salt with any PWCs? I really don't > think it's a color change. It looks much more like blood to me. > > Someone mentioned about CB's tail is so short. It was longer in spots, > but raggedy, and the raggedy bits finally fell off, but the tail seems to be > growing back some, now. Now that the fish are acting healthier, I do notice > Lucille nipping at CB's tail sometimes. I had originally suspected that > both CB's and Raven's tails had been nibbled on. In a 10 gallon tank, where > could they have escaped to? Hopefully, I can keep Lucille entertained > enough and give CB places to hide. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > --------------------Insertion for continuity--------------- > > Deb, As \\Steve// suggests (points out), usually as a normal > progression of Hemorrhagic Septicemia in fish, it will be noted as > starting at the base of the fins -- not as starting at the exterior > finges of the fins. While I couldn't get a very clear picture, it > doesn't seem as if this condition exists in your fish. Of course, > keep us advised of any changes. Its quite normal for many Goldfish > to change color and color patterns as they grow, and as your's are > resuming growth, this may well be what is taking place. This > generally occurs when they are slightly older -- and by this, its > conceded that along with the slight additional age at which this > occurs, the fish would naturally be larger. As your fish may have > been held back in growth, and may not be indicative of this > phenomenon, their age may be sufficient for them to start undergoing > these changes, but keep us posted. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > > > > I tried to get pictures and they're just too fuzzy. I did get > a short > > video, though, that might be clear enough: > > http://www.facebook.com/p.php? i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU > > OR > > http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ---------------End insertion for continuity--------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:34 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > Friday Night Check in (Day 9 of Reduced Salt - 25 Days total) (Starting > > PraziPro): > > > > Wed (Christmas Eve): > > - 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; > > Nitrate: > > 5 to 10ppm > > - 1tsp Amquel+ @ 11AM (2nd half of dose) > > > > Thu (Christmas Day): > > - 11AM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to > > 10ppm > > - .5cc Prime @ 1PM (I wouldn't normally do this, but there was no time > > for > > a PWC and I wanted to keep the ammonia down until Friday) > > - Midnight: Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0 to .25ppm; Nitrate: almost > > 10ppm > > - 1cc Prime @ midnight (same reasoning- had to way the risk of extra > > Prime > > against that of too much Ammonia) > > > > Fri (today): > > - PWC @ 3PM (7G out, 8G in, 19G ttl in tank) > > - Treated each G of new water with 1tsp salt and .1cc Prime > > - 5PM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to 10ppm > > - 4.8cc PraziPro @ 5:30PM > > > > I won't stop using the Brita filter, but will use the Prime for PWCs > > until I get the fish through the PraziPro and know what's going on with > > the > > chlorine/chloramines situation. I did notice that the pH dropped 2 points > > with the water treatment. That's probably a good thing. > > > > I dodged a bullet Christmas Eve. I went to the pet store for dog > > food, > > because I also needed to get the aquarium stuff. If hubby had gone, he > > was > > going to surprise me with a small school of neon tetras to put with the > > goldfish. *sigh* I doubt they even have the same environmental needs and > > I > > keep trying to explain that the goldfish have already maxed out the tank > > bio-load, not to mention that they still have health problems. It goes in > > one ear and out the other. His sister has two goldfish in what looks like > > a > > 2.5 gallon tank and they're "just fine." Hubby wants me to stunt my fish > > so > > they don't turn into carps. I'll rehome them and shut down the aquarium > > before I do that. I've put too much work into getting them healthy. > > > > Oops. Bedtime. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:48 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > > > > Yes, I remember this set of readings. With day 2 already having .25 > > ppm of ammonia, this would seem quite sudden -- and to me, suspicious > > although I could be wrong. By your 1st day result for ammonia, it > > would not appear as though you have chloramine in your tap water, > > although I would still prefer the reply from your water company to be > > sure. > > > > If you need to do a PWC before the third day, removing a portion of > > the PraziPro in doing this, yes you should replace the portion of > > PraziPro you removed at that time. You cannot expect the medication > > to perform as though it were at full strength, when you remove some > > of it. If, for instance, you remove and replace 6 gallons of water > > as a PWC of your tank of 18 gallons, you'll need to replace 1/3 of > > the amount of PraziPro you initially started with. The aquarium- > > solution strength PraziPro requires you use 1 tps per 20 gallons (6 > > drops less for 18 gallons); for 6 gallons, you'd need to replace a > > bit less than 1/3 of a tsp (or 18 drops). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > >> > >> - Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): > >> day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > Nitrate: > >> 0ppm > >> 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > >> 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > >> > >> - The question about treating the replacement water was for > > PraziPro if I > >> need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. > >> > >> DebR and the Three Goldfish > >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > >> > >> > >> A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it > >> appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water supply, as > >> the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. CB > >> may be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two > >> fish, which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish > > eating > >> is a good sign, and encouraging to see. > >> > >> If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, dechlor > >> will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of it. > >> Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of > > chloramine > >> and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter > > may > >> be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what you > >> have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing > > the > >> chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for > > removing > >> chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be able > > to > >> treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that would > >> otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water > >> containing chlorine. > >> > >> The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, if > > it > >> turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this > >> ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your > >> having chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from any > >> other source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done right > >> now. > >> > >> If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be aware > >> that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter > > can > >> create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as > > your > >> Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly > >> reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it without > >> filtering it out. > >> > >> A good change to fresh water before introducing another medication > > is > >> always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's > >> rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK (?) > >> I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm > >> reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and I'm > >> assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you should > >> ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You should > >> NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 gallon > >> PWC on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or > >> dechlor, if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, not > >> 20 gallons. Ray > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > >> <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > >> > > >> > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update > >> later > >> > tonight. > >> > > >> > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my > >> Baseline tests > >> > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. > > I'll > >> verify > >> > that before my post tonight. > >> > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a > > picture. > >> > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest > >> more than > >> > the others. > >> > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap > >> filter. > >> > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the > >> Prime. For > >> > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the > >> filter, but > >> > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water > > before > >> I do > >> > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the > >> fish don't > >> > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. > >> > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at > >> least 3 > >> > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I > >> need to do > >> > a PWC before then? > >> > > >> > More later. > >> > > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish > >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > >> > > >> > > >> > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now > > beginning > >> > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results > > remaining > >> > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest > >> > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner > > in > >> > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I > >> > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your > >> water > >> > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far > >> > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria > > should > >> > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, > >> > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect > > to > >> > keep up. We'll work on it though. > >> > > >> > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not > >> especially > >> > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters > >> > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop > >> > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they > > do > >> > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development > >> of > >> > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of > >> > Lucille, showing these streaks? > >> > > >> > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat > > for > >> > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe > > to > >> > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in > >> conjuction > >> > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild > >> medication, > >> > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. > >> > > >> > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition > > to > >> > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) > > need > >> > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine > > in > >> > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you > >> do > >> > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but > >> > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that > > your > >> > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or > >> may > >> > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you > >> have > >> > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water > >> > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been > >> using > >> > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you > > should > >> > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an > >> > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only > >> > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue > > to > >> > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste > >> > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is > > in > >> > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. > >> > Ray > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > >> > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) > >> > > > >> > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly > >> > under .25ppm; > >> > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm > >> > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM > >> > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM > >> > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G > >> > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have > >> an > >> > > airstone) > >> > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged > >> > > > >> > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the > >> Prime > >> > and also > >> > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep > >> > telling myself > >> > > to get it and I keep forgetting. > >> > > > >> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > >> > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34938	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

The fish are doing so much better, now. I'm removing anything that I think might catch on Lucille's tail. I did notice a tiny tear on one of the tips and since she's mostly white, it would be difficult to know if she had any bacterial or fungus issues until it got more extreme. I was going to have my water tested at a store, because Ray expressed some concern over the accuracy. I'd like to be sure. For the baseline test, am I supposed to do that on just the tap water, or was I supposed to have added the Prime? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:36 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) Yes, PetsMart will do a water test for you but they typically use the dip sticks which would be less reliable than your kit but nothing wrong with having it done for comparative purposes. Either have them write down the results in numbers or you do it yourself. DO NOT accept "It's OK" or "It's a little high" as an answer. If the test kit they are using only gives Good, Fair or Bad type answers, then I wouldn't rely on that test kit at all. You could also ask the LFS to test it for further confirmation. Why are you concerned about your test results? They seem to have been consistent and in line with what was going on in your tank. I certainly would like to see the ammonia and nitrite staying consistently at zero which is where they will be once the tank is fully cycled. At least you are starting off with zero nitrates from your tap and seeing the nitrates rise in the tank which means your nitrogen cycle is working.. just not up to 100% yet. The blood color you are seeing on the end of the tail, rather than blood veins starting at the base of the tail, could just be some of the redness/inflammation that will happen on the end of fins when there are fin rot bacterial infections and that sounds like what was happening to CB's tail. Hopefully, the elevated salt levels killed off this bacteria and created added slime coat to help the goldfish ward it off further. Goldfish are not typically fin nippers. The males will push and prod the females vent area during mating times and this can get rather aggressive but deterioration in finnage is usually related to bacterial issues as a result of poor water quality issues. Hopefully this is all it was and you don't have a fin nipping Hannibal Lector goldfish. I'm wondering if the sloughing off of rotted fin didn't look like flake food to Lucille who thought he/she was getting food rather than fin... they say it all tastes like chicken.;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) Saturday Night Check in (Day 10 of reduced salt - 26 total): - Baseline #1 on straight tap water: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Tank (midnight): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm - CB has been very active today - almost back to normal. I figured since the fungus is a thing of the past I should probably change the subject line. Noting the Ammonia level, since I gave the PraziPro yesterday at 5pm, should I do a PWC and treat the replacement water with PraziPro or should I just add more Prime to control the ammonia? I'm looking for someplace to take a water sample from the aquarium and have it tested so I can tell if my kit is giving me accurate results. Will PetSmart do that kind of thing? I only know of one LFS and as I said before it's kind of a dirty little place. I might buy sealed containers of fish products, but I wouldn't buy any fish there and I'm not so sure I'd trust their advice. Also, since everyone agrees that Lucille probably doesn't have Septicemia, should I stop replacing salt with any PWCs? I really don't think it's a color change. It looks much more like blood to me. Someone mentioned about CB's tail is so short. It was longer in spots, but raggedy, and the raggedy bits finally fell off, but the tail seems to be growing back some, now. Now that the fish are acting healthier, I do notice Lucille nipping at CB's tail sometimes. I had originally suspected that both CB's and Raven's tails had been nibbled on. In a 10 gallon tank, where could they have escaped to? Hopefully, I can keep Lucille entertained enough and give CB places to hide. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) --------------------Insertion for continuity--------------- Deb, As \\Steve// suggests (points out), usually as a normal progression of Hemorrhagic Septicemia in fish, it will be noted as starting at the base of the fins -- not as starting at the exterior finges of the fins. While I couldn't get a very clear picture, it doesn't seem as if this condition exists in your fish. Of course, keep us advised of any changes. Its quite normal for many Goldfish to change color and color patterns as they grow, and as your's are resuming growth, this may well be what is taking place. This generally occurs when they are slightly older -- and by this, its conceded that along with the slight additional age at which this occurs, the fish would naturally be larger. As your fish may have been held back in growth, and may not be indicative of this phenomenon, their age may be sufficient for them to start undergoing these changes, but keep us posted. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I tried to get pictures and they're just too fuzzy. I did get a short > video, though, that might be clear enough: > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU > <http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU> > OR > http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail <http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ---------------End insertion for continuity--------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > Friday Night Check in (Day 9 of Reduced Salt - 25 Days total)(Starting > PraziPro): > > Wed (Christmas Eve): > - 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; > Nitrate: > 5 to 10ppm > - 1tsp Amquel+ @ 11AM (2nd half of dose) > > Thu (Christmas Day): > - 11AM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to > 10ppm > - .5cc Prime @ 1PM (I wouldn't normally do this, but there was no time > for a PWC and I wanted to keep the ammonia down until Friday) > - Midnight: Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0 to .25ppm; Nitrate: > almost 10ppm > - 1cc Prime @ midnight (same reasoning- had to way the risk of extra > Prime against that of too much Ammonia) > > Fri (today): > - PWC @ 3PM (7G out, 8G in, 19G ttl in tank) > - Treated each G of new water with 1tsp salt and .1cc Prime > - 5PM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to > 10ppm > - 4.8cc PraziPro @ 5:30PM > > I won't stop using the Brita filter, but will use the Prime for PWCs > until I get the fish through the PraziPro and know what's going on > with the chlorine/chloramines situation. I did notice that the pH > dropped 2 points with the water treatment. That's probably a good > thing. > > I dodged a bullet Christmas Eve. I went to the pet store for dog food, > because I also needed to get the aquarium stuff. If hubby had gone, he > was going to surprise me with a small school of neon tetras to put > with the goldfish. *sigh* I doubt they even have the same > environmental needs and I keep trying to explain that the goldfish > have already maxed out the tank bio-load, not to mention that they > still have health problems. It goes in one ear and out the other. His > sister has two goldfish in what looks like a > 2.5 gallon tank and they're "just fine." Hubby wants me to stunt my > fish so they don't turn into carps. I'll rehome them and shut down the > aquarium before I do that. I've put too much work into getting them > healthy. > > Oops. Bedtime. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:48 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Yes, I remember this set of readings. With day 2 already having .25 > ppm of ammonia, this would seem quite sudden -- and to me, suspicious > although I could be wrong. By your 1st day result for ammonia, it > would not appear as though you have chloramine in your tap water, > although I would still prefer the reply from your water company to be > sure. > > If you need to do a PWC before the third day, removing a portion of > the PraziPro in doing this, yes you should replace the portion of > PraziPro you removed at that time. You cannot expect the medication to > perform as though it were at full strength, when you remove some of > it. If, for instance, you remove and replace 6 gallons of water as a > PWC of your tank of 18 gallons, you'll need to replace 1/3 of the > amount of PraziPro you initially started with. The aquarium- solution > strength PraziPro requires you use 1 tps per 20 gallons (6 drops less > for 18 gallons); for 6 gallons, you'd need to replace a bit less than > 1/3 of a tsp (or 18 drops). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: >> >> - Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): >> day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: >> 0ppm >> 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm >> 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm >> >> - The question about treating the replacement water was for > PraziPro if I >> need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> >> >> A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it >> appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water supply, as >> the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. CB may >> be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two fish, >> which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish > eating >> is a good sign, and encouraging to see. >> >> If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, dechlor >> will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of it. >> Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of > chloramine >> and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter > may >> be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what you >> have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing > the >> chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for > removing >> chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be able > to >> treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that would >> otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water >> containing chlorine. >> >> The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, if > it >> turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this >> ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your having >> chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from any other >> source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done right now. >> >> If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be aware >> that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter > can >> create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as > your >> Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly >> reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it without >> filtering it out. >> >> A good change to fresh water before introducing another medication > is >> always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's >> rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK (?) >> I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm >> reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and I'm >> assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you should >> ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You should >> NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 gallon PWC >> on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or dechlor, >> if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, not 20 >> gallons. Ray >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" >> <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> > >> > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update >> later >> > tonight. >> > >> > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my >> Baseline tests >> > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. > I'll >> verify >> > that before my post tonight. >> > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a > picture. >> > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest >> more than >> > the others. >> > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap >> filter. >> > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the >> Prime. For >> > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the >> filter, but >> > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water > before >> I do >> > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the >> fish don't >> > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. >> > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at >> least 3 >> > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I >> need to do >> > a PWC before then? >> > >> > More later. >> > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> > >> > >> > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now > beginning >> > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results > remaining >> > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest >> > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner > in >> > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I >> > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your >> water >> > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far >> > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria > should >> > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, >> > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect > to >> > keep up. We'll work on it though. >> > >> > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not >> especially >> > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters >> > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop >> > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they > do >> > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development >> of >> > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of >> > Lucille, showing these streaks? >> > >> > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat > for >> > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe > to >> > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in >> conjuction >> > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild >> medication, >> > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. >> > >> > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition > to >> > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) > need >> > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine > in >> > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you >> do >> > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but >> > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that > your >> > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or >> may >> > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you >> have >> > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water >> > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been >> using >> > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you > should >> > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an >> > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only >> > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue > to >> > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste >> > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is > in >> > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. >> > Ray >> > >> > >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" >> > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) >> > > >> > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly >> > under .25ppm; >> > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm >> > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM >> > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM >> > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G >> > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have >> an >> > > airstone) >> > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged >> > > >> > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the >> Prime >> > and also >> > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep >> > telling myself >> > > to get it and I keep forgetting. >> > > >> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34939	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?)

Normally, I do my first test right out the tap. Then add dechlor and test again. It's at this point that you should see an ammonia reading presuming you have chloramine in your water. Then test again at 24 hours and 48 hours. This is really something you need to find out from your water utility. It's not always listed in the water utility reports as you will see in my blog about "Chlorine - Chloramine Information" where I question my own water utility and get their replies, all in writing. Since the EPA only requires them to report chlorine levels, that is all they report so their reports can be misleading about chloramine. Typical gov'ment... in order to have uniformity, everything is uniformly dumbed down! lol Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) The fish are doing so much better, now. I'm removing anything that I think might catch on Lucille's tail. I did notice a tiny tear on one of the tips and since she's mostly white, it would be difficult to know if she had any bacterial or fungus issues until it got more extreme. I was going to have my water tested at a store, because Ray expressed some concern over the accuracy. I'd like to be sure. For the baseline test, am I supposed to do that on just the tap water, or was I supposed to have added the Prime? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:36 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) Yes, PetsMart will do a water test for you but they typically use the dip sticks which would be less reliable than your kit but nothing wrong with having it done for comparative purposes. Either have them write down the results in numbers or you do it yourself. DO NOT accept "It's OK" or "It's a little high" as an answer. If the test kit they are using only gives Good, Fair or Bad type answers, then I wouldn't rely on that test kit at all. You could also ask the LFS to test it for further confirmation. Why are you concerned about your test results? They seem to have been consistent and in line with what was going on in your tank. I certainly would like to see the ammonia and nitrite staying consistently at zero which is where they will be once the tank is fully cycled. At least you are starting off with zero nitrates from your tap and seeing the nitrates rise in the tank which means your nitrogen cycle is working.. just not up to 100% yet. The blood color you are seeing on the end of the tail, rather than blood veins starting at the base of the tail, could just be some of the redness/inflammation that will happen on the end of fins when there are fin rot bacterial infections and that sounds like what was happening to CB's tail. Hopefully, the elevated salt levels killed off this bacteria and created added slime coat to help the goldfish ward it off further. Goldfish are not typically fin nippers. The males will push and prod the females vent area during mating times and this can get rather aggressive but deterioration in finnage is usually related to bacterial issues as a result of poor water quality issues. Hopefully this is all it was and you don't have a fin nipping Hannibal Lector goldfish. I'm wondering if the sloughing off of rotted fin didn't look like flake food to Lucille who thought he/she was getting food rather than fin... they say it all tastes like chicken.;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) Saturday Night Check in (Day 10 of reduced salt - 26 total): - Baseline #1 on straight tap water: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm - Tank (midnight): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm - CB has been very active today - almost back to normal. I figured since the fungus is a thing of the past I should probably change the subject line. Noting the Ammonia level, since I gave the PraziPro yesterday at 5pm, should I do a PWC and treat the replacement water with PraziPro or should I just add more Prime to control the ammonia? I'm looking for someplace to take a water sample from the aquarium and have it tested so I can tell if my kit is giving me accurate results. Will PetSmart do that kind of thing? I only know of one LFS and as I said before it's kind of a dirty little place. I might buy sealed containers of fish products, but I wouldn't buy any fish there and I'm not so sure I'd trust their advice. Also, since everyone agrees that Lucille probably doesn't have Septicemia, should I stop replacing salt with any PWCs? I really don't think it's a color change. It looks much more like blood to me. Someone mentioned about CB's tail is so short. It was longer in spots, but raggedy, and the raggedy bits finally fell off, but the tail seems to be growing back some, now. Now that the fish are acting healthier, I do notice Lucille nipping at CB's tail sometimes. I had originally suspected that both CB's and Raven's tails had been nibbled on. In a 10 gallon tank, where could they have escaped to? Hopefully, I can keep Lucille entertained enough and give CB places to hide. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) --------------------Insertion for continuity--------------- Deb, As \\Steve// suggests (points out), usually as a normal progression of Hemorrhagic Septicemia in fish, it will be noted as starting at the base of the fins -- not as starting at the exterior finges of the fins. While I couldn't get a very clear picture, it doesn't seem as if this condition exists in your fish. Of course, keep us advised of any changes. Its quite normal for many Goldfish to change color and color patterns as they grow, and as your's are resuming growth, this may well be what is taking place. This generally occurs when they are slightly older -- and by this, its conceded that along with the slight additional age at which this occurs, the fish would naturally be larger. As your fish may have been held back in growth, and may not be indicative of this phenomenon, their age may be sufficient for them to start undergoing these changes, but keep us posted. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I tried to get pictures and they're just too fuzzy. I did get a short > video, though, that might be clear enough: > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU > <http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU> > <http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU > <http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU> > > OR http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail <http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail> > <http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail <http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail> > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > ---------------End insertion for continuity--------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > Friday Night Check in (Day 9 of Reduced Salt - 25 Days total)(Starting > PraziPro): > > Wed (Christmas Eve): > - 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: almost 0ppm; > Nitrate: > 5 to 10ppm > - 1tsp Amquel+ @ 11AM (2nd half of dose) > > Thu (Christmas Day): > - 11AM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to > 10ppm > - .5cc Prime @ 1PM (I wouldn't normally do this, but there was no time > for a PWC and I wanted to keep the ammonia down until Friday) > - Midnight: Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0 to .25ppm; Nitrate: > almost 10ppm > - 1cc Prime @ midnight (same reasoning- had to way the risk of extra > Prime against that of too much Ammonia) > > Fri (today): > - PWC @ 3PM (7G out, 8G in, 19G ttl in tank) > - Treated each G of new water with 1tsp salt and .1cc Prime > - 5PM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 to > 10ppm > - 4.8cc PraziPro @ 5:30PM > > I won't stop using the Brita filter, but will use the Prime for PWCs > until I get the fish through the PraziPro and know what's going on > with the chlorine/chloramines situation. I did notice that the pH > dropped 2 points with the water treatment. That's probably a good > thing. > > I dodged a bullet Christmas Eve. I went to the pet store for dog food, > because I also needed to get the aquarium stuff. If hubby had gone, he > was going to surprise me with a small school of neon tetras to put > with the goldfish. *sigh* I doubt they even have the same > environmental needs and I keep trying to explain that the goldfish > have already maxed out the tank bio-load, not to mention that they > still have health problems. It goes in one ear and out the other. His > sister has two goldfish in what looks like a > 2.5 gallon tank and they're "just fine." Hubby wants me to stunt my > fish so they don't turn into carps. I'll rehome them and shut down the > aquarium before I do that. I've put too much work into getting them > healthy. > > Oops. Bedtime. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:48 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? > > > Yes, I remember this set of readings. With day 2 already having .25 > ppm of ammonia, this would seem quite sudden -- and to me, suspicious > although I could be wrong. By your 1st day result for ammonia, it > would not appear as though you have chloramine in your tap water, > although I would still prefer the reply from your water company to be > sure. > > If you need to do a PWC before the third day, removing a portion of > the PraziPro in doing this, yes you should replace the portion of > PraziPro you removed at that time. You cannot expect the medication to > perform as though it were at full strength, when you remove some of > it. If, for instance, you remove and replace 6 gallons of water as a > PWC of your tank of 18 gallons, you'll need to replace 1/3 of the > amount of PraziPro you initially started with. The aquarium- solution > strength PraziPro requires you use 1 tps per 20 gallons (6 drops less > for 18 gallons); for 6 gallons, you'd need to replace a bit less than > 1/3 of a tsp (or 18 drops). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: >> >> - Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): >> day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: >> 0ppm >> 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm >> 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm >> >> - The question about treating the replacement water was for > PraziPro if I >> need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> >> >> A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it >> appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water supply, as >> the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. CB may >> be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two fish, >> which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish > eating >> is a good sign, and encouraging to see. >> >> If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, dechlor >> will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of it. >> Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of > chloramine >> and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter > may >> be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what you >> have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing > the >> chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for > removing >> chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be able > to >> treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that would >> otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water >> containing chlorine. >> >> The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, if > it >> turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this >> ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your having >> chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from any other >> source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done right now. >> >> If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be aware >> that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter > can >> create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as > your >> Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly >> reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it without >> filtering it out. >> >> A good change to fresh water before introducing another medication > is >> always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's >> rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK (?) >> I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm >> reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and I'm >> assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you should >> ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You should >> NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 gallon PWC >> on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or dechlor, >> if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, not 20 >> gallons. Ray >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" >> <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> > >> > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update >> later >> > tonight. >> > >> > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my >> Baseline tests >> > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. > I'll >> verify >> > that before my post tonight. >> > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a > picture. >> > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest >> more than >> > the others. >> > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap >> filter. >> > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the >> Prime. For >> > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the >> filter, but >> > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water > before >> I do >> > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the >> fish don't >> > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday. >> > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at >> least 3 >> > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I >> need to do >> > a PWC before then? >> > >> > More later. >> > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> > >> > >> > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now > beginning >> > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results > remaining >> > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest >> > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner > in >> > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I >> > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your >> water >> > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far >> > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria > should >> > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium, >> > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect > to >> > keep up. We'll work on it though. >> > >> > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not >> especially >> > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters >> > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop >> > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they > do >> > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development >> of >> > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of >> > Lucille, showing these streaks? >> > >> > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat > for >> > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe > to >> > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in >> conjuction >> > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild >> medication, >> > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. >> > >> > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition > to >> > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) > need >> > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine > in >> > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you >> do >> > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but >> > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that > your >> > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or >> may >> > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you >> have >> > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water >> > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been >> using >> > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you > should >> > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an >> > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only >> > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue > to >> > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste >> > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is > in >> > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you. >> > Ray >> > >> > >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" >> > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) >> > > >> > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly >> > under .25ppm; >> > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm >> > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM >> > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM >> > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G >> > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have >> an >> > > airstone) >> > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged >> > > >> > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the >> Prime >> > and also >> > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep >> > telling myself >> > > to get it and I keep forgetting. >> > > >> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34940	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Cleaning tank filters, ect....

I picked up the 72 gal. bow front yesterday and started to clean everything. Now, what do you us to clean the white build up on the bio- wheels from hard water? I have been using those green scrub pads, but they just don't get them clean.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34941	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....

Are you trying to clean the actual bio-wheel spinning pleated filters... or the rest of the filter system? Has this system been kept running so the actual filter media and bio-wheel is still cycled (the nitrogen cycle... nitrifying bacteria growing on/in them, etc.) or has this system been shut down for a while? If the system has been shut down for a while... more than a day... then all of the nitrifying bacteria has likely died off. They start dying off within an hour or two of when they stop receiving an oxygenated water flow. If this is the case, then you can use plain white vinegar which is acidic and will soften and break down the hard water buildup of calcium and minerals. You may still have to use the green scrubby pads but it should all come off. It's easier to get off the glass if you lay the tank on each side and allow the vinegar to soak in for a little while using a paper towel soaked in the vinegar to keep the vinegar in place. If you don't have plain white vinegar around your home and plan on buying some, then buy the pickling vinegar instead since it's a stronger acid than the plain white vinegar... if the price is similar. As long as you keep the bottle sealed tight, it will last for a while and you can use this over and over as the need comes up for cleaning things "naturally" around your tank. If the vinegar doesn't work 100%, then make a salt paste and try that also. If you are trying to clean the actual pleated filter ends, be gentle with them. The two end caps slide onto the spindle to hold the pleated section in place. If you slide one of the end caps too far, it will release the pleats and you'll have fun trying to get them back in place... or just go buy a new one at that point. If the filter is still cycled, I would only use a very small amount of vinegar and try not to get any onto the paper filter material as it would kill off your nitrifying bacteria. You can't leave the pleated filter out of oxygenated tank water for very long or the good bacteria will start to die off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning tank filters, ect.... I picked up the 72 gal. bow front yesterday and started to clean everything. Now, what do you us to clean the white build up on the bio- wheels from hard water? I have been using those green scrub pads, but they just don't get them clean.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34942	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: saw my dream aqaurium

when i was at the LPS i saw this beautiful tank .......... it is 184 gallons, has 8 lights in the hood tank stand hood and filter, no decorations was only 1500.00 plus tax .......... can't forget the tax LOL oh well maybe i will win the lottery one day too !! :)) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34943	From: William	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....

You could let the vinegar set and soften the deposits and then add some baking soda to really clean the scum off of the glass. When I get a sink that slows down I add baking soda and vinegar to unclog it, it really works. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are you trying to clean the actual bio-wheel spinning pleated filters... or > the rest of the filter system? Has this system been kept running so the > actual filter media and bio-wheel is still cycled (the nitrogen cycle... > nitrifying bacteria growing on/in them, etc.) or has this system been shut > down for a while? > > If the system has been shut down for a while... more than a day... then all > of the nitrifying bacteria has likely died off. They start dying off within > an hour or two of when they stop receiving an oxygenated water flow. > > If this is the case, then you can use plain white vinegar which is acidic > and will soften and break down the hard water buildup of calcium and > minerals. You may still have to use the green scrubby pads but it should > all come off. It's easier to get off the glass if you lay the tank on each > side and allow the vinegar to soak in for a little while using a paper towel > soaked in the vinegar to keep the vinegar in place. If you don't have plain > white vinegar around your home and plan on buying some, then buy the > pickling vinegar instead since it's a stronger acid than the plain white > vinegar... if the price is similar. As long as you keep the bottle sealed > tight, it will last for a while and you can use this over and over as the > need comes up for cleaning things "naturally" around your tank. If the > vinegar doesn't work 100%, then make a salt paste and try that also. > > If you are trying to clean the actual pleated filter ends, be gentle with > them. The two end caps slide onto the spindle to hold the pleated section > in place. If you slide one of the end caps too far, it will release the > pleats and you'll have fun trying to get them back in place... or just go > buy a new one at that point. If the filter is still cycled, I would only > use a very small amount of vinegar and try not to get any onto the paper > filter material as it would kill off your nitrifying bacteria. You can't > leave the pleated filter out of oxygenated tank water for very long or the > good bacteria will start to die off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning tank filters, ect.... > > I picked up the 72 gal. bow front yesterday and started to clean everything. > Now, what do you us to clean the white build up on the bio- wheels from hard > water? I have been using those green scrub pads, but they just don't get > them clean.. > > Thanks, > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34944	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....

Lenny, The tanks has been shut down for two weeks, so I'm not worried about the bacteria. I will be buying new "bio-wheels", he tossed the old ones. I also will be cleaning the 350 canister pump, what do you use on the "O" rings to lube them? I give the vinegar a shot at the problem, it's not a huge build-up, I just like everything to look "new" and clean.. The tank is fine except for the top, same problem.... And then there is the gravel, he dumped it in a large bucket, so I will divide it up and hose it down... But, before that I have to re-stain the stand a darker oak color, no big deal there. There were bags of other stuff he gave me, 4 air pumps, a "master" freshwater test kit (very little use), nice heater, some good driftwood, and a few other things.... Thanks, Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are you trying to clean the actual bio-wheel spinning pleated filters... or > the rest of the filter system? Has this system been kept running so the > actual filter media and bio-wheel is still cycled (the nitrogen cycle... > nitrifying bacteria growing on/in them, etc.) or has this system been shut > down for a while? > > If the system has been shut down for a while... more than a day... then all > of the nitrifying bacteria has likely died off. They start dying off within > an hour or two of when they stop receiving an oxygenated water flow. > > If this is the case, then you can use plain white vinegar which is acidic > and will soften and break down the hard water buildup of calcium and > minerals. You may still have to use the green scrubby pads but it should > all come off. It's easier to get off the glass if you lay the tank on each > side and allow the vinegar to soak in for a little while using a paper towel > soaked in the vinegar to keep the vinegar in place. If you don't have plain > white vinegar around your home and plan on buying some, then buy the > pickling vinegar instead since it's a stronger acid than the plain white > vinegar... if the price is similar. As long as you keep the bottle sealed > tight, it will last for a while and you can use this over and over as the > need comes up for cleaning things "naturally" around your tank. If the > vinegar doesn't work 100%, then make a salt paste and try that also. > > If you are trying to clean the actual pleated filter ends, be gentle with > them. The two end caps slide onto the spindle to hold the pleated section > in place. If you slide one of the end caps too far, it will release the > pleats and you'll have fun trying to get them back in place... or just go > buy a new one at that point. If the filter is still cycled, I would only > use a very small amount of vinegar and try not to get any onto the paper > filter material as it would kill off your nitrifying bacteria. You can't > leave the pleated filter out of oxygenated tank water for very long or the > good bacteria will start to die off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning tank filters, ect.... > > I picked up the 72 gal. bow front yesterday and started to clean everything. > Now, what do you us to clean the white build up on the bio- wheels from hard > water? I have been using those green scrub pads, but they just don't get > them clean.. > > Thanks, > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34945	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Q: Hard Water / Lenny

just tested the tap water straight from the tap before adding dechlor (i found the Prime so i bought it) GH = 120 (moderately hard water) KH = 80 mg/L PH = 7.4 Nitrate = 0 ppm Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm friday test results from the tank are PH is 7.2 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm Nitrate is 5 ppm KH is 60 mg/L GH is 220 ppm (very hard according to the hagen chart) water temp is 74 Today from the tank: PH = 7.2 Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm Nitrate = 0 ppm KH = 60 mg/L GH = 220 ppm water temp is 74 KH x 0.056 = 336 gH° KH x 0.07 = 42 Clark H° KH x 0.6 fH° KH x 1 = 60 hardness° KH x 0.02 = 1.2 mEq/L what could cause the hardness of my tank water to change ? i have not added or removed anything?? both filters now have the bio max, particle filter and fine particle filters should i soften the water or leave well enough alone? if i need to soften the water what is the safest way to do it without stressing the fish and changing the PH ? i have to get ready for work so i will check my emails just before leaving and again tonight when i get home before doing anything :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34946	From: greychildren	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: saw my dream aqaurium

Darlene too bad you don't live down here in south Florida were u can get a 120g tank for about $300 with stand. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: > > when i was at the LPS i saw this beautiful tank .......... > it is 184 gallons, has 8 lights in the hood > tank stand hood and filter, no decorations was only 1500.00 plus tax .......... can't forget the tax LOL > oh well maybe i will win the lottery one day too !! :)) > > Darlene > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34947	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....

I'm not sure if its available for sale but at work I have a magical thing called magic lube for our huge system here. Ill have to check but I think its just a silicone based non toxic lubricant. You should be able to go to a hardware store and ask for a non toxic lubricant for fish tanks. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@...> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:25:56 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect.... Lenny, The tanks has been shut down for two weeks, so I'm not worried about the bacteria. I will be buying new "bio-wheels", he tossed the old ones. I also will be cleaning the 350 canister pump, what do you use on the "O" rings to lube them? I give the vinegar a shot at the problem, it's not a huge build-up, I just like everything to look "new" and clean.. The tank is fine except for the top, same problem.... And then there is the gravel, he dumped it in a large bucket, so I will divide it up and hose it down... But, before that I have to re-stain the stand a darker oak color, no big deal there. There were bags of other stuff he gave me, 4 air pumps, a "master" freshwater test kit (very little use), nice heater, some good driftwood, and a few other things.... Thanks, Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are you trying to clean the actual bio-wheel spinning pleated filters... or > the rest of the filter system? Has this system been kept running so the > actual filter media and bio-wheel is still cycled (the nitrogen cycle... > nitrifying bacteria growing on/in them, etc.) or has this system been shut > down for a while? > > If the system has been shut down for a while... more than a day... then all > of the nitrifying bacteria has likely died off. They start dying off within > an hour or two of when they stop receiving an oxygenated water flow. > > If this is the case, then you can use plain white vinegar which is acidic > and will soften and break down the hard water buildup of calcium and > minerals. You may still have to use the green scrubby pads but it should > all come off. It's easier to get off the glass if you lay the tank on each > side and allow the vinegar to soak in for a little while using a paper towel > soaked in the vinegar to keep the vinegar in place. If you don't have plain > white vinegar around your home and plan on buying some, then buy the > pickling vinegar instead since it's a stronger acid than the plain white > vinegar... if the price is similar. As long as you keep the bottle sealed > tight, it will last for a while and you can use this over and over as the > need comes up for cleaning things "naturally" around your tank. If the > vinegar doesn't work 100%, then make a salt paste and try that also. > > If you are trying to clean the actual pleated filter ends, be gentle with > them. The two end caps slide onto the spindle to hold the pleated section > in place. If you slide one of the end caps too far, it will release the > pleats and you'll have fun trying to get them back in place... or just go > buy a new one at that point. If the filter is still cycled, I would only > use a very small amount of vinegar and try not to get any onto the paper > filter material as it would kill off your nitrifying bacteria. You can't > leave the pleated filter out of oxygenated tank water for very long or the > good bacteria will start to die off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning tank filters, ect.... > > I picked up the 72 gal. bow front yesterday and started to clean everything. > Now, what do you us to clean the white build up on the bio- wheels from hard > water? I have been using those green scrub pads, but they just don't get > them clean.. > > Thanks, > > Jim > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34948	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: saw my dream aqaurium

well i do have a friend down in Florida and she has been asking me to come and visit ........................... and i do have a ford focus station wagon.............. how long is the tank ?? will have to measure the interior space with the seats down .......LOLOLOL your as bad as Lenny for getting me thinking about things i should probably not think about :)))) LOLOL Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34949	From: JOHN KD7POE	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....

Hi   Vaseline or regular generic Petroleum Jelly.   I hve been using it for years on all my impellars and "O" rings   John in Nevada --- On Mon, 12/29/08, allie1068@... <allie1068@...> wrote: From: allie1068@... <allie1068@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect.... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 9:33 AM I'm not sure if its available for sale but at work I have a magical thing called magic lube for our huge system here. Ill have to check but I think its just a silicone based non toxic lubricant. You should be able to go to a hardware store and ask for a non toxic lubricant for fish tanks. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@aol. com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:25:56 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect.... Lenny, The tanks has been shut down for two weeks, so I'm not worried about the bacteria. I will be buying new "bio-wheels" , he tossed the old ones. I also will be cleaning the 350 canister pump, what do you use on the "O" rings to lube them? I give the vinegar a shot at the problem, it's not a huge build-up, I just like everything to look "new" and clean.. The tank is fine except for the top, same problem.... And then there is the gravel, he dumped it in a large bucket, so I will divide it up and hose it down... But, before that I have to re-stain the stand a darker oak color, no big deal there. There were bags of other stuff he gave me, 4 air pumps, a "master" freshwater test kit (very little use), nice heater, some good driftwood, and a few other things.... Thanks, Jim --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Are you trying to clean the actual bio-wheel spinning pleated filters... or > the rest of the filter system? Has this system been kept running so the > actual filter media and bio-wheel is still cycled (the nitrogen cycle... > nitrifying bacteria growing on/in them, etc.) or has this system been shut > down for a while? > > If the system has been shut down for a while... more than a day... then all > of the nitrifying bacteria has likely died off. They start dying off within > an hour or two of when they stop receiving an oxygenated water flow. > > If this is the case, then you can use plain white vinegar which is acidic > and will soften and break down the hard water buildup of calcium and > minerals. You may still have to use the green scrubby pads but it should > all come off. It's easier to get off the glass if you lay the tank on each > side and allow the vinegar to soak in for a little while using a paper towel > soaked in the vinegar to keep the vinegar in place. If you don't have plain > white vinegar around your home and plan on buying some, then buy the > pickling vinegar instead since it's a stronger acid than the plain white > vinegar... if the price is similar. As long as you keep the bottle sealed > tight, it will last for a while and you can use this over and over as the > need comes up for cleaning things "naturally" around your tank. If the > vinegar doesn't work 100%, then make a salt paste and try that also. > > If you are trying to clean the actual pleated filter ends, be gentle with > them. The two end caps slide onto the spindle to hold the pleated section > in place. If you slide one of the end caps too far, it will release the > pleats and you'll have fun trying to get them back in place... or just go > buy a new one at that point. If the filter is still cycled, I would only > use a very small amount of vinegar and try not to get any onto the paper > filter material as it would kill off your nitrifying bacteria. You can't > leave the pleated filter out of oxygenated tank water for very long or the > good bacteria will start to die off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning tank filters, ect.... > > I picked up the 72 gal. bow front yesterday and started to clean everything. > Now, what do you us to clean the white build up on the bio- wheels from hard > water? I have been using those green scrub pads, but they just don't get > them clean.. > > Thanks, > > Jim > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34950	From: allie1068@yahoo.com	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect....

Very good idea I didn't even think about that. (I'm too much of a creature of habit) Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: JOHN KD7POE <dumont53@...> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:12:16 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect.... Hi � Vaseline or regular generic Petroleum Jelly. � I hve been using it for years on all my impellars and "O" rings � John in Nevada --- On Mon, 12/29/08, allie1068@... <allie1068@...> wrote: From: allie1068@... <allie1068@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect.... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 9:33 AM I'm not sure if its available for sale but at work I have a magical thing called magic lube for our huge system here. Ill have to check but I think its just a silicone based non toxic lubricant. You should be able to go to a hardware store and ask for a non toxic lubricant for fish tanks. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@aol. com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:25:56 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cleaning tank filters, ect.... Lenny, The tanks has been shut down for two weeks, so I'm not worried about the bacteria. I will be buying new "bio-wheels" , he tossed the old ones. I also will be cleaning the 350 canister pump, what do you use on the "O" rings to lube them? I give the vinegar a shot at the problem, it's not a huge build-up, I just like everything to look "new" and clean.. The tank is fine except for the top, same problem.... And then there is the gravel, he dumped it in a large bucket, so I will divide it up and hose it down... But, before that I have to re-stain the stand a darker oak color, no big deal there. There were bags of other stuff he gave me, 4 air pumps, a "master" freshwater test kit (very little use), nice heater, some good driftwood, and a few other things.... Thanks, Jim --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Are you trying to clean the actual bio-wheel spinning pleated filters... or > the rest of the filter system? Has this system been kept running so the > actual filter media and bio-wheel is still cycled (the nitrogen cycle... > nitrifying bacteria growing on/in them, etc.) or has this system been shut > down for a while? > > If the system has been shut down for a while... more than a day... then all > of the nitrifying bacteria has likely died off. They start dying off within > an hour or two of when they stop receiving an oxygenated water flow. > > If this is the case, then you can use plain white vinegar which is acidic > and will soften and break down the hard water buildup of calcium and > minerals. You may still have to use the green scrubby pads but it should > all come off. It's easier to get off the glass if you lay the tank on each > side and allow the vinegar to soak in for a little while using a paper towel > soaked in the vinegar to keep the vinegar in place. If you don't have plain > white vinegar around your home and plan on buying some, then buy the > pickling vinegar instead since it's a stronger acid than the plain white > vinegar... if the price is similar. As long as you keep the bottle sealed > tight, it will last for a while and you can use this over and over as the > need comes up for cleaning things "naturally" around your tank. If the > vinegar doesn't work 100%, then make a salt paste and try that also. > > If you are trying to clean the actual pleated filter ends, be gentle with > them. The two end caps slide onto the spindle to hold the pleated section > in place. If you slide one of the end caps too far, it will release the > pleats and you'll have fun trying to get them back in place... or just go > buy a new one at that point. If the filter is still cycled, I would only > use a very small amount of vinegar and try not to get any onto the paper > filter material as it would kill off your nitrifying bacteria. You can't > leave the pleated filter out of oxygenated tank water for very long or the > good bacteria will start to die off. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cleaning tank filters, ect.... > > I picked up the 72 gal. bow front yesterday and started to clean everything. > Now, what do you us to clean the white build up on the bio- wheels from hard > water? I have been using those green scrub pads, but they just don't get > them clean.. > > Thanks, > > Jim > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34951	From: pepe_joan	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: bichir

hi I'm a new member and I need help. I've got a pet bichir named "poly" and she lives alone in a 75 gallon tank.Great pet, very smart but keeps trying to get out of tank. I would like info on a high rise tank cover or something that looks better than the duct tape I have keeping my hood escape proof thank you

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34952	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

So yesterday we had a couple power outages, the first of which lasted the longest, perhaps about 45 minutes or so and then came on for a half hour and back off again for about 20-30 minutes. I'm curious if this could have killed off a lot of my nitrifying bacteria? I live in a condo so having a generator somewhere is not exactly something that could be easily done, as I don't have any personal property outside of my condo. And if anyone is curious we have over 3 feet of snow at my place, I'm almost snowed in at this point and it keeps coming down! Not the kind of white winter I would have liked, it can stop snowing any time as far as I'm concerned, especially since my car is stuck down the hill and can't make it home even. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34953	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: OK got the angelfish photo/ RAY

Thank you for all your help, Ray I am still interested in raising Angelfish. in fact my wife emailed me a pic of "koi" Angelfish? They were really beautiful but dont seem to be that common. Any ideas? Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > That's very odd that at least one of your LFS's didn't have at least > one of the brands of medications containing Metronidazole, not that > you needed it anyway. Yes, I know exactly what you mean when you say > there is only one central distribution center of aquaium supplies out > on Long Island. The only aquarium dry goods wholesaler out your way > is Royal Pet Supply headquartered in Brentwood. I know them well; > the firms president is a gentleman by the name of Stephen Augenstein > and his distribution manager is Mike Voyias. They're instrumental in > supplying us (NJAS) with donations of all types to benefit our annual > shows which have been most appreciated over the decades -- they're > more than generous. > > I know all too well about the traffic that can occur while driving > through the NYC area boroughs and counties (Nassua & Suffolk) of > L.I., and the few access routes that exist to gain access to your > area. Back when I was importing fish, I had a number of customers > out on Long Island -- one in particular was Aquarium Imports in > Amittyville. I used to either drive the Southern State Parkway or > the Long Island Expressway and then Route 110 to reach him. No > problem running out there early in the morning as the traffic was > mostly going the opposite way, to New York City, but it was a > nightmare going back with that flow during that "rush hour" period. > > The trips I needed to make, to JFK International Airport were no fun > either when I had shipments coming in, as Newark (NJ) Airport was not > yet an International Airport at that time and didn't receive overseas > flights. I often scheduled flights to arrive at JFK at 2 or 3AM just > so I'd have clear sailing in driving down the Grand Central and Van > Wyke Expressways; the only problem was waiting for the customs > inspectors at that time of the morning, although they were on duty 24 > hours a day -- and the long morning ahead of me putting the fish away. > > I would not have expected any of the big box stores to carry anything > out of the ordinary or the most called-for items. They're not there > to make things easier for their customers, but to make it the most > convenient and profitable way to enrich their stores. > > You no doubt saw where I mentioned that while your fish may have had > Hexamita (undetermined, but tentatively suggested by its refusal to > eat), this had nothing to do with any possible HITH, which your fish > didn't appear to have. Metronidazole is often recommended for > treating HITH, although I missed how that became a subject in your > topic of threads. While I realize I've far from seen or heard about > all reports associated with treating Hexamita, every report that I've > become aware of always stated that Metronidazole was unsuccessful at > treating their Hexamita, so it makes me wonder where that original > recommendation started from; I guess old habits die hard. > > HITH is caused by a similar cestodes flagellate, Spironucleus in > conjuction with the ectoparasite Naegleria, a free-swimming amoeba- > like pathogen. While similar (related) to Hexamita, Spironucleus > does not respond readily to Metronidazole; this disease is best > treated with chelated copper, copper sulfate and/or nickle sulfate, > but large frequent PWC's by themselves will often promote healing. > Got to be extremely careful with copper. There are still a very few > cites which erroneously refer to Hexamita as being a synonym for > Spironucleus, but almost all others now recognize they are two > entirely different pathogens. Shows you still have to watch what you > read and choose to believe. > > If you're still interested in growing out a few Angelfish, I should > tell you that I now have the exclusive contract with the PetLand > chain of stores in New York City to distribute Angelfish to them. > We'll be starting this trade by the middle of January, about 20 store > in Manhatten. Have a Happy New Year. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34954	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

I have tried just 3/4" rigid foamboard under a 35 gallon tank no problem till I leaned on it. When I made the indent it kept spreading so the tank was unlevel. A thin piece of plexi took care of that and never had a problem since. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > While we were talking about insulating tanks some time back > the use of rigid Styrofoam was mentioned. >   > Can anyone tell me, "Is it a good idea to place this under the tank > for damage control and protection of the wood furniture beneath the tank"? >  Bill > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34955	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

where do you live ?? we have lots of snow too !! but now we have rain ! :((( Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34956	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

Southeast Alaska, on an island. I'm so tired of shoveling snow, LOL. Amber Darlene wrote: > > where do you live ?? > we have lots of snow too !! but now we have rain ! :((( > > Darlene > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34957	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

You should be OK as far as the nitrifying bacteria go. You might have had a small die off but they are capable of doubling their colony size every 24-48 hours (depending on water parameters) but more than likely, you won't even see a mini-cycle. Something you can do... just for your filter systems... is get UPS', like those used on computers, and plug your filter systems into them. Start looking on freecycle.org, craigslist.org, etc., for free used ones. I just picked up two BIG ONES for free that each needed the batteries replaced (this needs to be done every couple of years so some people just trash them and buy new UPS'. These are APC 1000 model's... much larger than the ones I had. I was able to replace the batteries for only $40.00 plus shipping on eBay... which is a fraction of what these units sell for new. I even paid more than that for my new APC 650's that I was using. I also use UPS' on my entertainment center and obviously on my computer. It beats the heck out of having the fix the time and programming on my dvr, vcr's, tv and other electronics on the entertainment center every time there's a power outage or surge... and it protects the electronics as well. Read my blog, "Power Outage! - How me and my fish survived Hurricane Katrina" for more info on how a UPS can be used during a long term power outage to keep your nitrifying bacteria alive... including having a power inverter that can be run off of your car cigarette lighter and use that to recharge the UPS on a daily basis and to power the filters whenever the car is running to recharge the UPS.... but you'll need a long extension cord if you decide to leave your car down the hill. ;-) Of course, if you do get a generator, I'm sure your neighbors will be more than happy to forego any rules about having it running outside as long as you let them enjoy some of your heat. I had extension cords running to two other homes running off of my generator during Gustav this past August. The problem would be where to keep it when you're not in need... maybe hide it under your barbecue pit? Are you allowed a barbecue pit? I know many homeowner associations are run by Hitler/Hussein wannabe's and you are supposed to walk lock-step behind all their rules... or you can start a coup, like I did... and throw the bums out! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria So yesterday we had a couple power outages, the first of which lasted the longest, perhaps about 45 minutes or so and then came on for a half hour and back off again for about 20-30 minutes. I'm curious if this could have killed off a lot of my nitrifying bacteria? I live in a condo so having a generator somewhere is not exactly something that could be easily done, as I don't have any personal property outside of my condo. And if anyone is curious we have over 3 feet of snow at my place, I'm almost snowed in at this point and it keeps coming down! Not the kind of white winter I would have liked, it can stop snowing any time as far as I'm concerned, especially since my car is stuck down the hill and can't make it home even. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34958	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank?

Lean on the other end! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Styrofoam Under A Tank? I have tried just 3/4" rigid foamboard under a 35 gallon tank no problem till I leaned on it. When I made the indent it kept spreading so the tank was unlevel. A thin piece of plexi took care of that and never had a problem since. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , bill1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > While we were talking about insulating tanks some time back the use of > rigid Styrofoam was mentioned. > > Can anyone tell me, "Is it a good idea to place this under the tank > for damage control and protection of the wood furniture beneath the tank"? > Bill > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

Oohhh.. SE Alaska... the warm part.. kind of like Florida! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria Southeast Alaska, on an island. I'm so tired of shoveling snow, LOL. Amber Darlene wrote: > > where do you live ?? > we have lots of snow too !! but now we have rain ! :((( > > Darlene > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34960	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question

I picked up another 20G tank and all accessories on Craigslist for $35. It'll be a while before I'm ready to set it up, but I'm pricing materials to build a water bridge. I decided the one on eBay would probably be a real hassle to alter to my specs. I want the vertical tubes to extend at least below the 25% PWC line. I found a place that sells polycarbonate tubing and I was wondering if this is a reasonable price or if anyone knows where I could find it cheaper. Also, do you think the 1/16" wall width will be ok for a 3" diameter tube or does it need to be 1/8"? The horizontal run will be no more than a foot long. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993 OR http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx They also have acrylic and clear pvc tubing. The acrylic is a bit more. The clear pvc is a lot more. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34961	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question

Something I was considering a while back was using acrylic tubing to make a water bridge. My thought was if I bought a piece long enough I could have TAP Plastics make a 45 degree cut, turn the cut off piece 180 degrees and seal the pieces together. This should make a 90 degree turn. Do this on each end and it would all be acrylic, no white or black plastic end pieces to obstruct the view. But since that  kind of tubing is out of my price range I had to pass on the idea. If the tubing you are looking at is rigid you may be able to do this. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 3:35 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question I picked up another 20G tank and all accessories on Craigslist for $35. It'll be a while before I'm ready to set it up, but I'm pricing materials to build a water bridge. I decided the one on eBay would probably be a real hassle to alter to my specs. I want the vertical tubes to extend at least below the 25% PWC line. I found a place that sells polycarbonate tubing and I was wondering if this is a reasonable price or if anyone knows where I could find it cheaper. Also, do you think the 1/16" wall width will be ok for a 3" diameter tube or does it need to be 1/8"? The horizontal ru n will be no more than a foot long. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993 OR http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx They also have acrylic and clear pvc tubing. The acrylic is a bit more. The clear pvc is a lot more. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34962	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question

Hmmmmm . . .! If I got a fine tooth blade for the circular saw and wrapped the tubing so the miter clamps don't scratch it . . . hmmmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question Something I was considering a while back was using acrylic tubing to make a water bridge. My thought was if I bought a piece long enough I could have TAP Plastics make a 45 degree cut, turn the cut off piece 180 degrees and seal the pieces together. This should make a 90 degree turn. Do this on each end and it would all be acrylic, no white or black plastic end pieces to obstruct the view. But since that kind of tubing is out of my price range I had to pass on the idea. If the tubing you are looking at is rigid you may be able to do this. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> I picked up another 20G tank and all accessories on Craigslist for $35. It'll be a while before I'm ready to set it up, but I'm pricing materials to build a water bridge. I decided the one on eBay would probably be a real hassle to alter to my specs. I want the vertical tubes to extend at least below the 25% PWC line. I found a place that sells polycarbonate tubing and I was wondering if this is a reasonable price or if anyone knows where I could find it cheaper. Also, do you think the 1/16" wall width will be ok for a 3" diameter tube or does it need to be 1/8"? The horizontal run will be no more than a foot long. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993 OR http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx They also have acrylic and clear pvc tubing. The acrylic is a bit more. The clear pvc is a lot more. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34963	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn

Hah! I must be behind the times today I found a ½ inch Multipunctata baby swimming around in the 75G. I netted him and he’s by himself in the breeder net in my fry tank for now. Eating NLS Grow formula like a veteran. Wonder how many others are hiding in the mbuna mouths? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 2:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: Synodontis Spawn Okay, GREAT!!! I wasn't aware of other catfish in the tank. If a few of them got into the mix there's a good chance you might have S. multipunctata fry soon. Lots of luck with them -- wishing you the best of success in catfishin'. They're gonna have to be the cutest little guys going, in that neat color pattern, when they're still small little critters running around the bottom of the tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I have five Multipunctata they usually travel in groups of two or three. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Was: Aren't there any small cichlids? Now: > Synodontis Spawn > > > > With re-reading your post over 3 times, I see mention of only one > Synodontis multipunctata -- the catfish that was releasing clouds of > eggs. It appears you are fogetting one slight detail, unless you've > left this out for some unexplained reason -- there's no mention of a > male S. multipunctata. Without the presence of a male Synodonyis, > there is no possibility for the eggs to be fertilized; the > Pseudotropheus demasoni male cannot fertilize Synodontis eggs. The > tank's population obviously had a nice snack, unless they are holding > unfertilized eggs (LOL). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > I witnessed my first attempted Synodontis Multipunctatus spawn > yesterday, > > what a surprise! > > > > > > > > My Pseudotropheus Demasoni (cichlids) were spawning on the in-tank > > background near the top when the catfish became interested. The > cichlids > > use the background because the catfish won't leave them alone on > horizontal > > surfaces, LOL. In spite of that I have plenty of cichlid spawns, > during > > Thanksgiving I stripped 2 Demasoni and 2 Labs who happened to be > holding > > when I moved the Malawi to their new 75G tank. > > > > > > > > I watched the pair of cichlids do their slow spawning circles and > saw the > > female lay an egg or two every second or third circle. She had to > be quick > > to pick it up (she is a mouthbrooder) before it fell to the > substrate. The > > catfish chased them off. This happened several times until out of > the > > corner of my eye I saw a cloud of eggs that looked just like the > Demasoni > > eggs released mid-water. Of course this attracted the entire tank > > population who snapped them up yum, yum! > > > > > > > > At first I thought it was the Demasoni who had either released the > cloud or > > lost the mouthful she already picked up. But it seemed to be a LOT > of eggs > > for her size and I have never seen a Demasoni release more than 3 > eggs at a > > time. Then I wondered if it could have been the catfish. > > > > > > > > I watched some more while the Demasoni and Multipunctatus repeated > the > > behaviors and this time I saw the Multipunctatus release another > cloud of > > eggs. > > > > > > > > I have no idea whether the cichlids that snapped up the eggs both > times just > > had a snack, or I might have a holding Mom or two with a kitty > brooding in > > her mouth! (I had at least 3 females already holding eggs in the > tank.) > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: Donna Ransome [mailto:djransome@] > > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:48 AM > > To: 'AquaticLife@ <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > > > > > Mike, I was replying to Dora's "vampire" reaction to the Syno's. I > keep > > them too. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@ > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > > > > > Hi Donna, > > > > It was not intended to be "Gruesome" as you put it. > > > > No, the parents do not need to the cichlids to survive. However > their > > intended catfish Offspring do need the host cichlid to survive. To > date I > > have not heard of them succesfully raising fry without a host > cichlid. If > > there is a means please share it with me as I would like some > catfish babies > > :) > > > > I do not think I wrote my comments to lead someone to think the > parents need > > cichlids to survive, only their offspring. > > > > As far as keeping just any fish that was a carnivore? I keep the > fish that > > interest me. Living in California I am not "Allowed" by the Nannys > at fish > > and game to have Pirhana. If I could I might have a tank of them, > but not to > > feed live critters to, but because the fish interest me. These fish > are > > indeed carnivores but an Oscar could also be considered a carnivore > and I > > think they are great fish, had them and want them again. > > > > -Mike > > > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't keep any fish that was > a > > carnivore? > > > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers > that have > > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not > something > > they need to do to live just to reproduce. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome% > 40optonline.net> > > .net> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 7:56 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Just another form of predation. You wouldn't ke > > ep any fish that was a > > carnivore? > > > > It does sound gruesome the way you phrase it. See all the keepers > that have > > posted and the poor catfish have never been successful! It's not > something > > they need to do to live just to reproduce. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:36 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > They are beautiful catfish for one. > > > > Cichlid keepers are often very interested in the parental care > cichlids have > > for their fry. It is also interesting to watch the catfish > interfere with > > this behavior to have their own young survive. > > > > I have some of these catfish although I have not succesfully had > any fry. > > They know when the Cichlids are breeding and will rush across the > tank from > > their cave and go through the motions that you saw in the Video. > Whenever I > > see the Cichlids doing their little shimmy(spawning) I stop and > watch for > > the catfish to come zooming over. I put an upside down flower pot > saucer in > > the center of the tank and the cichlids seem to like that as their > chosen > > place to spawn. Now if I could just get some fry! > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 5:37 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > People actually want catfish whose only goal in > > life is to vampirize baby > > cichlids? > > > > Why? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Well, mine gave yet to lay eggs and have the cichlids pick them up. > But > > most people hope they do because the catfish are worth about 3X > what the > > cichlids are. They are also very cool as adults and very cute as > babie > > s. > > > > Yes, they will keep unwanted hybrids from becoming a problem! > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > I don't want any of those parasitic catfish. > > > > I suppose they're good for tank birth control. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@optonline > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:53 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > Shellies, you saw them in the show living in the shells, grow to 2". > > > > The parasitic catfis > > h, Synodontis Multipunctatus, I have 5 of them, grow to > > 6". > > > > The striped guy that the otters were chasing and he hid in a log? > > Altolamprologus Calvus or Comps.I have 6 of them. Grow to 6". > > > > I have 20 of the "sardines", they grow to 3-4". > > > > That's just the ones I have that were also in the program. > > > > 2" to 6" are fairly common sizes for African cichlids. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of flohk13@aol. <mailto:flohk13%40aol.com> com > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids?=0 > > A > > I believe both Bolivian and German Blue Rams are Cichlids and they > only grow > > to 3-4"...or were you looking for smaller? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 4:06 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aren't there any small cichlids? > > > > That film on cichlids said there are a number of species of very > small > > cichlids. Aren't any of them commercially available for fish tanks? > It > > seems like they'd be better suited than fish that are 14 inches or > five feet > > > > or something long when full grown - holy smokes, you'd need a pond > for them > > to be happy. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <johchance1@aol. <mai > > lto:johchance1%40aol.com> com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:39 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie form Atlanta ga > > > > In a message dated 11/28/2008 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com writes: > > > > For four Oscars... wow... how big is your spare bedroom? Not only > would > > you > > need a lot of water volume to handle the dilution of their waste > between > > PWC's and filter maintenance, you'd also have territorial needs for > the > > fish.... and that's presuming they all grow up together. I've read > many > > stories of owners trying to mix adult Oscars and these generally > > puppydog-like fish remember their Cichlid heritage. Following, is a > > good > > profile on them and http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. > > <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> > Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> > > Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com is > > a source of good profiles > > on > > most FW fi > > sh that you might be interested in. > > http://fish. <http://fish. > > <http://fish. <http://fish. > > <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html> > > mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original mess > > age MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > th > > e reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to > > a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Q: Hard Water / Lenny

Well, lets see what the 48 hour baseline tests turn out to be on your tap water before making any assumptions about your final baseline figures. As far as changing your water, NO... there is no need to change anything with your water. Your KH is a little low, but you can use Baking Soda or other source of carbonate to raise it, if we find there is a need, but as long as it's staying between 60-80ppm (3-4 dH) before you do a new PWC, then it will be fine. As the fish get larger, this will have to be tested on a regular basis right before each PWC to make sure the KH level is staying high enough. If the KH gets too low, it can lead to a pH crash but this does not seem to be a problem yet. Back to your tap water baseline... Quite often, the pH, KH and GH will change.. most often the pH, during the 48 hour baseline tests. These change due to the buffers added by your water utility to raise the pH while the water is in the pipes to help prevent or slow down corrosion. As these buffers are exposed to air and light, they'll diminish in effectiveness (that's why many chemicals, medicines, etc., are kept in dark brown bottles and kept sealed). Since your GH appears to have gone up, it could be due to the salt in your tank. Are you adding salt? I know I should remember but I help in several forums and I quit trying to remember each tank's situation a long time ago. If you do have salt in your tank, that will raise the hardness a little and depending on how much salt, if any, that could be the reason for your increase. What else do you have in the tank that could be raising the hardness? Rocks, coral, etc.? Do you have live plants? I'm curious why your nitrates went down from 5ppm to 0ppm. Did you do any PWC's? No need to post all of them other computations. The main two used are ppm (mg/l) or dH. While the exact figure is 17.9ppm per dH, I simply use 20 to get a close enough approximation... so 80ppm KH becomes 4 dH... 60ppm becomes 3 dH, 220ppm becomes 11 dH. Goldfish and many other fish actually like and need harder water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny just tested the tap water straight from the tap before adding dechlor (i found the Prime so i bought it) GH = 120 (moderately hard water) KH = 80 mg/L PH = 7.4 Nitrate = 0 ppm Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm friday test results from the tank are PH is 7.2 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm Nitrate is 5 ppm KH is 60 mg/L GH is 220 ppm (very hard according to the hagen chart) water temp is 74 Today from the tank: PH = 7.2 Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm Nitrate = 0 ppm KH = 60 mg/L GH = 220 ppm water temp is 74 KH x 0.056 = 336 gH° KH x 0.07 = 42 Clark H° KH x 0.6 fH° KH x 1 = 60 hardness° KH x 0.02 = 1.2 mEq/L what could cause the hardness of my tank water to change ? i have not added or removed anything?? both filters now have the bio max, particle filter and fine particle filters should i soften the water or leave well enough alone? if i need to soften the water what is the safest way to do it without stressing the fish and changing the PH ? i have to get ready for work so i will check my emails just before leaving and again tonight when i get home before doing anything :) Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question

I think it depends on how long you would be making your tube. The longer the tube, the more water it would have so the thicker material might be needed. For a short tube of a foot or two, the thinner material should be fine. A tube is a very strong building material. What thickness did that website say he used? It looks like he had at least 4" tube and it was 4-5' long so if he used 1/8" on that length, then 1/16" should be fine on a much shorter length. The 3" tube will have a lot less water (weight) than a 4" tube also. That stuff isn't cheap but I'd probably use it for the down tubes also... well I just noticed it's only sold in 8' intervals so you might want to check with them to see if it would handle a 6' length full of water, then you could have a 6' bridge with 1' down tubes... or I bet you didn't see that 8' minimum. ;-) You should call or email them and ask about how much water weight it could handle without added bracing. Also ask them if they have scraps for sale and then buy three pieces of scrap material for your tube and two down tubes. Scraps should be cheaper too! And then you wouldn't have to worry about which material you get.. as long as it's clear. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 5:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question I picked up another 20G tank and all accessories on Craigslist for $35. It'll be a while before I'm ready to set it up, but I'm pricing materials to build a water bridge. I decided the one on eBay would probably be a real hassle to alter to my specs. I want the vertical tubes to extend at least below the 25% PWC line. I found a place that sells polycarbonate tubing and I was wondering if this is a reasonable price or if anyone knows where I could find it cheaper. Also, do you think the 1/16" wall width will be ok for a 3" diameter tube or does it need to be 1/8"? The horizontal run will be no more than a foot long. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&catego ry%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993 <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&categ ory%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993> OR http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx <http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx> They also have acrylic and clear pvc tubing. The acrylic is a bit more. The clear pvc is a lot more. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34966	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question

Man.. I'd be worried about that seam breaking.. or even being able to get a good seam on a 1/8" or 1/16" thick piece of acrylic/polycarbonate tubing. If it was 1/4" thick or something like that, I'd feel a little better about getting a good seat but it would be iffy with such thin material. At least the seams would be over the tanks though and wouldn't be pressure points! ;-) As long as the tanks are able to handle the extra water volume if either of the seams leak, which would cause the tube to lose it's vacuum, then it would work.. unless you had the filter system set up to pump water through the tube and then it would empty one of the tanks onto the floor. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question Something I was considering a while back was using acrylic tubing to make a water bridge. My thought was if I bought a piece long enough I could have TAP Plastics make a 45 degree cut, turn the cut off piece 180 degrees and seal the pieces together. This should make a 90 degree turn. Do this on each end and it would all be acrylic, no white or black plastic end pieces to obstruct the view. But since that kind of tubing is out of my price range I had to pass on the idea. If the tubing you are looking at is rigid you may be able to do this. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 3:35 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question I picked up another 20G tank and all accessories on Craigslist for $35. It'll be a while before I'm ready to set it up, but I'm pricing materials to build a water bridge. I decided the one on eBay would probably be a real hassle to alter to my specs. I want the vertical tubes to extend at least below the 25% PWC line. I found a place that sells polycarbonate tubing and I was wondering if this is a reasonable price or if anyone knows where I could find it cheaper. Also, do you think the 1/16" wall width will be ok for a 3" diameter tube or does it need to be 1/8"? The horizontal ru n will be no more than a foot long. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&catego ry%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993 <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&categ ory%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993> OR http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx <http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx> They also have acrylic and clear pvc tubing. The acrylic is a bit more. The clear pvc is a lot more. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34967	From: bill1433	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

� I am working on a 29-gallon set-up and discovered I needed a background for it.� To be truthful with you , I should say the family decided that, for myself, I would have painted the thing dark blue. � However, to that end�I purchased a background at Wal-Mart.� Now I have not bought a background for a tank in 30-years and I do realize things might have changed a bit and I was not disappointed! � The background is very sturdy (better quality than 30 years ago) however, it was rolled!� Rolled very tightly, in a 1� roll.� Now I did get it to lay flat on our dining room table with some effort and the aid of a few 2 x 4�s placed on its edge�s and I�m thinking that it should be laying that flat by itself but probably not do so till around the year 2045.� Since there�s a chance that ol�bill may not be here by 2045, I�d like to get this matter corrected before I go!� The plastic seems very sturdy and I am wondering (as I do a lot these days) if perhaps a ladies hair dryer might speed things along. � Any thoughts or comic commentary (Yo, \\Steve//) is most welcomed, I really need help with this one gang. �Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34968	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

You can use double sided tape on each end for simplicity. More complicated methods which make the backing adhere to the glass, which will make the background "look" better have also been used. I've read of folks using vaseline, baby oil or silicone oil between the glass and the background (on the outside of the tank of course) on a mylar/vinyl background to make the background look like it's part of the back glass instead of something just stuck to the outside of the glass. Then squeegee the excess and bubbles out. Your better half's soft rubber baking spatulas will work for this purpose... or a credit card. ;-) DrsFosterSmith.com sells SeaView Gel for this purpose... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+6635+18280&pca tid=18280 JBL makes a product also but I've only seen it available in UK and Euro websites... http://www.onlineaquariumstore.com/acatalog/JBL_FIXOL_50_ml.html So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a while. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:49 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally!   I am working on a 29-gallon set-up and discovered I needed a background for it.  To be truthful with you , I should say the family decided that, for myself, I would have painted the thing dark blue.   However, to that end I purchased a background at Wal-Mart.  Now I have not bought a background for a tank in 30-years and I do realize things might have changed a bit and I was not disappointed!   The background is very sturdy (better quality than 30 years ago) however, it was rolled!  Rolled very tightly, in a 1” roll.  Now I did get it to lay flat on our dining room table with some effort and the aid of a few 2 x 4’s placed on its edge’s and I’m thinking that it should be laying that flat by itself but probably not do so till around the year 2045.  Since there’s a chance that ol’bill may not be here by 2045, I’d like to get this matter corrected before I go!  The plastic seems very sturdy and I am wondering (as I do a lot these days) if perhaps a ladies hair dryer might speed things along.   Any thoughts or comic commentary (Yo, \\Steve//) is most welcomed, I really need help with this one gang.  Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34969	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

Thanks for the tips Lenny, we have the battery backup systems on most of the other electronics (tv, cable box, computers etc), but that's a good idea to get for the fish tanks. I've noticed our battery backups don't last that long, rarely even the 20 minutes that the box says they will. I get the APC ones, but I think they're the less powerful ones, will have to see what our walmart carries the next time I can make it out there. I made it home today with a little bit of work, thankfully they are keeping the roads somewhat plowed so far. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You should be OK as far as the nitrifying bacteria go. You might have > had a > small die off but they are capable of doubling their colony size every > 24-48 > hours (depending on water parameters) but more than likely, you won't even > see a mini-cycle. Something you can do... just for your filter systems... > is get UPS', like those used on computers, and plug your filter > systems into > them. > > Start looking on freecycle.org, craigslist.org, etc., for free used > ones. I > just picked up two BIG ONES for free that each needed the batteries > replaced > (this needs to be done every couple of years so some people just trash > them > and buy new UPS'. These are APC 1000 model's... much larger than the > ones I > had. I was able to replace the batteries for only $40.00 plus shipping on > eBay... which is a fraction of what these units sell for new. I even paid > more than that for my new APC 650's that I was using. I also use UPS' > on my > entertainment center and obviously on my computer. It beats the heck > out of > having the fix the time and programming on my dvr, vcr's, tv and other > electronics on the entertainment center every time there's a power > outage or > surge... and it protects the electronics as well. > > Read my blog, "Power Outage! - How me and my fish survived Hurricane > Katrina" for more info on how a UPS can be used during a long term power > outage to keep your nitrifying bacteria alive... including having a power > inverter that can be run off of your car cigarette lighter and use that to > recharge the UPS on a daily basis and to power the filters whenever > the car > is running to recharge the UPS.... but you'll need a long extension > cord if > you decide to leave your car down the hill. ;-) > > Of course, if you do get a generator, I'm sure your neighbors will be more > than happy to forego any rules about having it running outside as long as > you let them enjoy some of your heat. I had extension cords running to two > other homes running off of my generator during Gustav this past > August. The > problem would be where to keep it when you're not in need... maybe hide it > under your barbecue pit? Are you allowed a barbecue pit? I know many > homeowner associations are run by Hitler/Hussein wannabe's and you are > supposed to walk lock-step behind all their rules... or you can start a > coup, like I did... and throw the bums out! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > So yesterday we had a couple power outages, the first of which lasted the > longest, perhaps about 45 minutes or so and then came on for a half > hour and > back off again for about 20-30 minutes. I'm curious if this could have > killed off a lot of my nitrifying bacteria? I live in a condo so having a > generator somewhere is not exactly something that could be easily > done, as I > don't have any personal property outside of my condo. > And if anyone is curious we have over 3 feet of snow at my place, I'm > almost > snowed in at this point and it keeps coming down! Not the kind of white > winter I would have liked, it can stop snowing any time as far as I'm > concerned, especially since my car is stuck down the hill and can't > make it > home even. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34970	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

it's supposed to be "warmer" than the rest of Alaska, but apparently someone forgot to tell mother nature that this year ;) I think we have more snow than they do up north right now, LOL. Normally our winters are rather mild, maybe some ice and a few inches of snow, but I haven't seen a winter like this in over 10 years. This is the beginning of winter too, this is just awful, hope the rest of winter isn't like this :( Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Oohhh.. SE Alaska... the warm part.. kind of like Florida! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > Southeast Alaska, on an island. I'm so tired of shoveling snow, LOL. > > Amber > > Darlene wrote: > > > > where do you live ?? > > we have lots of snow too !! but now we have rain ! :((( > > > > Darlene > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34971	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

Here's some of the best prices on replacement batteries for APC models that I found on eBay. Here's their main site... but check eBay for possibly better pricing. http://apcupsbattery.com/newsite/apcupsbatteryfinder.htm Most filters have very small motors that use very little electricity. During the aftermath of Katrina, with an APC-650, I was able to run my four filter systems for 3-5 minutes each every hour or two (no more than two hours except for when I was sleeping for maybe 3-4 hours) throughout an entire day and then run them for 5-10 minutes before I went to bed at night for a few hours and then 5-10 minutes as soon as I woke up. My car got flooded but a neighbor who evacuated, came back the next day and would recharge my APC UPS using his car's 12V power inverter. I didn't do any water testing since there wasn't much I could do anyhow... but my fish did not show any signs of ammonia/nitrite issues so I don't think I had any cycling issues. Of course I did have live plants in all of my tanks and ran zeolite in the filters when I did run them to help remove any excess ammonia that the plants and bacteria weren't utilizing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria Thanks for the tips Lenny, we have the battery backup systems on most of the other electronics (tv, cable box, computers etc), but that's a good idea to get for the fish tanks. I've noticed our battery backups don't last that long, rarely even the 20 minutes that the box says they will. I get the APC ones, but I think they're the less powerful ones, will have to see what our walmart carries the next time I can make it out there. I made it home today with a little bit of work, thankfully they are keeping the roads somewhat plowed so far. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You should be OK as far as the nitrifying bacteria go. You might have > had a > small die off but they are capable of doubling their colony size every > 24-48 > hours (depending on water parameters) but more than likely, you won't even > see a mini-cycle. Something you can do... just for your filter systems... > is get UPS', like those used on computers, and plug your filter > systems into > them. > > Start looking on freecycle.org, craigslist.org, etc., for free used > ones. I > just picked up two BIG ONES for free that each needed the batteries > replaced > (this needs to be done every couple of years so some people just trash > them > and buy new UPS'. These are APC 1000 model's... much larger than the > ones I > had. I was able to replace the batteries for only $40.00 plus shipping on > eBay... which is a fraction of what these units sell for new. I even paid > more than that for my new APC 650's that I was using. I also use UPS' > on my > entertainment center and obviously on my computer. It beats the heck > out of > having the fix the time and programming on my dvr, vcr's, tv and other > electronics on the entertainment center every time there's a power > outage or > surge... and it protects the electronics as well. > > Read my blog, "Power Outage! - How me and my fish survived Hurricane > Katrina" for more info on how a UPS can be used during a long term power > outage to keep your nitrifying bacteria alive... including having a power > inverter that can be run off of your car cigarette lighter and use that to > recharge the UPS on a daily basis and to power the filters whenever > the car > is running to recharge the UPS.... but you'll need a long extension > cord if > you decide to leave your car down the hill. ;-) > > Of course, if you do get a generator, I'm sure your neighbors will be more > than happy to forego any rules about having it running outside as long as > you let them enjoy some of your heat. I had extension cords running to two > other homes running off of my generator during Gustav this past > August. The > problem would be where to keep it when you're not in need... maybe hide it > under your barbecue pit? Are you allowed a barbecue pit? I know many > homeowner associations are run by Hitler/Hussein wannabe's and you are > supposed to walk lock-step behind all their rules... or you can start a > coup, like I did... and throw the bums out! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > So yesterday we had a couple power outages, the first of which lasted the > longest, perhaps about 45 minutes or so and then came on for a half > hour and > back off again for about 20-30 minutes. I'm curious if this could have > killed off a lot of my nitrifying bacteria? I live in a condo so having a > generator somewhere is not exactly something that could be easily > done, as I > don't have any personal property outside of my condo. > And if anyone is curious we have over 3 feet of snow at my place, I'm > almost > snowed in at this point and it keeps coming down! Not the kind of white > winter I would have liked, it can stop snowing any time as far as I'm > concerned, especially since my car is stuck down the hill and can't > make it > home even. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34972	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

Yeah.. the stats are in and 2008 is the coldest year on Earth in the past decade. So much for AlGore's (pronounced like Igor) so-called "inconvenient truth" about global warming. Luckily AlGore also invented the internet or we might not know this. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria it's supposed to be "warmer" than the rest of Alaska, but apparently someone forgot to tell mother nature that this year ;) I think we have more snow than they do up north right now, LOL. Normally our winters are rather mild, maybe some ice and a few inches of snow, but I haven't seen a winter like this in over 10 years. This is the beginning of winter too, this is just awful, hope the rest of winter isn't like this :( Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Oohhh.. SE Alaska... the warm part.. kind of like Florida! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > Southeast Alaska, on an island. I'm so tired of shoveling snow, LOL. > > Amber > > Darlene wrote: > > > > where do you live ?? > > we have lots of snow too !! but now we have rain ! :((( > > > > Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34973	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Heavy Metals

Is it ok to use a dechlor product that takes care of heavy metals when doing PWC even if you do not have chlorine or chloramine?  I have well water so I don't have to worry about chlorine/chloramine, but I may have some heavy metal issues.  I have not tested my water for the metals.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34974	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals

I would think it's fine to use. Basic dechlor's that treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals have been used for a long time with no apparent adverse side effects. If you haven't seen me post this before, either API's Tap Water Conditioner or Top Fin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are two of the most cost effective products that I've seen in the 8 oz. to 16 oz. sizes. There may be better bargains with other brands on larger sizes. I used to buy the powdered product for pond usage but bought a gallon of liquid once also but it was more expensive. Here's one where this 500gm package will make a gallon of dechlor and it's only $6.50... but a gallon of dechlor would last me for years and years nowadays with only aquariums... although I don't think it goes bad. http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Sodium-Thiosulfate-Pentahydrate-500g-P6376C 670.aspx I just don't remember if Sodium Thiosulfate also treats heavy metals. Here's a snip from Kordon's site about heavy metals and it mentions "tetrasodium salts" so I'm not sure if the Sodium Thiosulfate also has these salts in it (but read on as I answer this later). (START SNIP) The scientists associated with Kordon found that the best way to control and eliminate heavy metals in the water is by the use of nontoxic forms of one or more Edetate compounds as used in agricultural chemicals, hydroponics, and medical chelation therapy. The basic chemical formula from which proper compounds are derived for aquarium and pond water conditioning is usually described chemically as Ethylene Diamine TetraAcetate. In the form of tetrasodium salts, which is used as a chelating agent to eliminate all heavy metals. The scientists associated with Kordon pioneered in developing the use of the proper Edetate compounds in aquarium and pond water conditioners many years before others followed in aquaculture and elsewhere. Kordon continues to pioneer in improvements. (END SNIP) The MSDS on API's Tap Water Dechlorinator (which also treats heavy metals) has the following: http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/tapwaterconditioner_2449.pdf NAME CAS RN % sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 30.2 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 9.8 So... it seems the EDTA salts are something in addition to the S.T. so disregard the powdered S.T. as it will only act as a dechlor. Another liquid brand I just remembered is Weco Dechlor (and treats heavy metals) which was pretty cheap but I haven't priced it in a while either but this site http://www.enkoi.com/subcat253.html has the gallon size for $27.50 and it looks pretty efficient at 2 drops per gallon which would be around 1ml per 10G... which is near what the API and Top Fin dechlors treat. API advertises 1 drop per gallon http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=46. Many other dechlor products use anywhere from 2ml to 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water. Note: 20 drops = 1ml (most of the time) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Is it ok to use a dechlor product that takes care of heavy metals when doing PWC even if you do not have chlorine or chloramine? I have well water so I don't have to worry about chlorine/chloramine, but I may have some heavy metal issues. I have not tested my water for the metals. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34975	From: bill1433	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

"So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a while"............................. � don't know how to tell you this Len; but EX-Marines don't use hair-dryer's!!!!! � Bill --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 8:31 PM You can use double sided tape on each end for simplicity. More complicated methods which make the backing adhere to the glass, which will make the background "look" better have also been used. I've read of folks using vaseline, baby oil or silicone oil between the glass and the background (on the outside of the tank of course) on a mylar/vinyl background to make the background look like it's part of the back glass instead of something just stuck to the outside of the glass. Then squeegee the excess and bubbles out. Your better half's soft rubber baking spatulas will work for this purpose... or a credit card. ;-) DrsFosterSmith. com sells SeaView Gel for this purpose... http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+6635+ 18280&pca tid=18280 JBL makes a product also but I've only seen it available in UK and Euro websites... http://www.onlineaq uariumstore. com/acatalog/ JBL_FIXOL_ 50_ml.html So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a while. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:49 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle----- ---Literally! � I am working on a 29-gallon set-up and discovered I needed a background for it.� To be truthful with you , I should say the family decided that, for myself, I would have painted the thing dark blue. � However, to that end�I purchased a background at Wal-Mart.� Now I have not bought a background for a tank in 30-years and I do realize things might have changed a bit and I was not disappointed! � The background is very sturdy (better quality than 30 years ago) however, it was rolled!� Rolled very tightly, in a 1� roll.� Now I did get it to lay flat on our dining room table with some effort and the aid of a few 2 x 4�s placed on its edge�s and I�m thinking that it should be laying that flat by itself but probably not do so till around the year 2045.� Since there�s a chance that ol�bill may not be here by 2045, I�d like to get this matter corrected before I go!� The plastic seems very sturdy and I am wondering (as I do a lot these days) if perhaps a ladies hair dryer might speed things along. � Any thoughts or comic commentary (Yo, \\Steve//) is most welcomed, I really need help with this one gang. �Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34976	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny

i don't have any plants, should i get some and if yes what type is best for low-medium light? no rocks, no coral, no shells, only the one decoration that came with the tank and i added a piece of wood yesterday for the aquarium, bought it at the fish store Aquarius, scrubbed it then soaked it in Permanganate for about 30 minutes then rinsed well in tap water then rinsed in tank water i removed from tank i have not used salt other than way back when i fist joined i used salt 3 days in a row, and i have done 2 or 3 PWC since stopping the salt. i used the Pima fix for 4 days now and the spot on the Oranda's tail is clearing up nicely. i added an air stone about 5 days ago to make sure they are getting enough air in the water Beats me why the nitrates went down ......... haven't changed the water in a couple of days, it is due tomorrow for a PWC ....... Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny Well, lets see what the 48 hour baseline tests turn out to be on your tap water before making any assumptions about your final baseline figures. As far as changing your water, NO... there is no need to change anything with your water. Your KH is a little low, but you can use Baking Soda or other source of carbonate to raise it, if we find there is a need, but as long as it's staying between 60-80ppm (3-4 dH) before you do a new PWC, then it will be fine. As the fish get larger, this will have to be tested on a regular basis right before each PWC to make sure the KH level is staying high enough. If the KH gets too low, it can lead to a pH crash but this does not seem to be a problem yet. Back to your tap water baseline... Quite often, the pH, KH and GH will change.. most often the pH, during the 48 hour baseline tests. These change due to the buffers added by your water utility to raise the pH while the water is in the pipes to help prevent or slow down corrosion. As these buffers are exposed to air and light, they'll diminish in effectiveness (that's why many chemicals, medicines, etc., are kept in dark brown bottles and kept sealed). Since your GH appears to have gone up, it could be due to the salt in your tank. Are you adding salt? I know I should remember but I help in several forums and I quit trying to remember each tank's situation a long time ago. If you do have salt in your tank, that will raise the hardness a little and depending on how much salt, if any, that could be the reason for your increase. What else do you have in the tank that could be raising the hardness? Rocks, coral, etc.? Do you have live plants? I'm curious why your nitrates went down from 5ppm to 0ppm. Did you do any PWC's? No need to post all of them other computations. The main two used are ppm (mg/l) or dH. While the exact figure is 17.9ppm per dH, I simply use 20 to get a close enough approximation... so 80ppm KH becomes 4 dH... 60ppm becomes 3 dH, 220ppm becomes 11 dH. Goldfish and many other fish actually like and need harder water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny just tested the tap water straight from the tap before adding dechlor (i found the Prime so i bought it) GH = 120 (moderately hard water) KH = 80 mg/L PH = 7.4 Nitrate = 0 ppm Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm friday test results from the tank are PH is 7.2 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm Nitrate is 5 ppm KH is 60 mg/L GH is 220 ppm (very hard according to the hagen chart) water temp is 74 Today from the tank: PH = 7.2 Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm Nitrate = 0 ppm KH = 60 mg/L GH = 220 ppm water temp is 74 KH x 0.056 = 336 gH° KH x 0.07 = 42 Clark H° KH x 0.6 fH° KH x 1 = 60 hardness° KH x 0.02 = 1.2 mEq/L what could cause the hardness of my tank water to change ? i have not added or removed anything?? both filters now have the bio max, particle filter and fine particle filters should i soften the water or leave well enough alone? if i need to soften the water what is the safest way to do it without stressing the fish and changing the PH ? i have to get ready for work so i will check my emails just before leaving and again tonight when i get home before doing anything :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

LOL. I know all about that. My dad died with his crew cut... that same haircut he had all his life... well, at least since he joined the Corps at 18. I was born in Beaufort, SC (the city where Parris Island is located) when my dad was stationed there. My oldest brother also retired from the Marine Corps. My middle brother and I both had crew cuts for the longest time... probably well into middle school before my parents let us start growing it a little longer... till it could touch our ears. I'm not sure if you know if but the owner of GoDaddy.com is a Marine and does a very nice USMC birthday tribute every year on the website. https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/holiday/usmc2008/playmovie.asp But this one is still my fav! From "What Is A Marine?" http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/marine-corps-knowledge-t1721.html "...We stole the eagle from the Air Force, the anchor from the Navy, and the rope from the Army. On the 7th day, while God rested, we over-ran his perimeter and stole the globe, and we've been running the show ever since...." BTW... Semper Fi and thank you for your service. And I'm sure you know this but for others reading this... there's no such thing as an "EX" Marine! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally! "So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a while".............................   don't know how to tell you this Len; but EX-Marines don't use hair-dryer's!!!!!   Bill --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 8:31 PM You can use double sided tape on each end for simplicity. More complicated methods which make the backing adhere to the glass, which will make the background "look" better have also been used. I've read of folks using vaseline, baby oil or silicone oil between the glass and the background (on the outside of the tank of course) on a mylar/vinyl background to make the background look like it's part of the back glass instead of something just stuck to the outside of the glass. Then squeegee the excess and bubbles out. Your better half's soft rubber baking spatulas will work for this purpose... or a credit card. ;-) DrsFosterSmith. com sells SeaView Gel for this purpose... http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+6635+ 18280&pca tid=18280 JBL makes a product also but I've only seen it available in UK and Euro websites... http://www.onlineaq uariumstore. com/acatalog/ JBL_FIXOL_ 50_ml.html So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a while. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:49 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle----- ---Literally!   I am working on a 29-gallon set-up and discovered I needed a background for it.  To be truthful with you , I should say the family decided that, for myself, I would have painted the thing dark blue.   However, to that end I purchased a background at Wal-Mart.  Now I have not bought a background for a tank in 30-years and I do realize things might have changed a bit and I was not disappointed!   The background is very sturdy (better quality than 30 years ago) however, it was rolled!  Rolled very tightly, in a 1” roll.  Now I did get it to lay flat on our dining room table with some effort and the aid of a few 2 x 4’s placed on its edge’s and I’m thinking that it should be laying that flat by itself but probably not do so till around the year 2045.  Since there’s a chance that ol’bill may not be here by 2045, I’d like to get this matter corrected before I go!  The plastic seems very sturdy and I am wondering (as I do a lot these days) if perhaps a ladies hair dryer might speed things along.   Any thoughts or comic commentary (Yo, \\Steve//) is most welcomed, I really need help with this one gang.  Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Q: Hard Water / Lenny

Hmmmmm... I'm worried about the P.P. Since you soaked the wood for 30 minutes and just "rinsed it well afterwards", it could still leach P.P. into your tank. Remember that since it soaked for 30 minutes, the porous wood should have sucked up some of the P.P... probably not enough to be a major concern since P.P. is actually used as a fish med but in the future, if you soak something for 30 minutes in a disinfectant chemical, then flush it for an hour or more... or even soak it overnight in fresh water, changing the water often. I wonder if the P.P. could be the reason for a higher GH reading (P.P. is a salt) and even reduction of nitrates due to it's oxidation properties? Maybe someone else will have experienced this before. I know PimaFix doesn't change water chemistry test results and the driftwood, if it starts leaching tannins... and just generally over time as it slowly decays, will slowly lower the pH and KH levels as part of the overall ecology but as long as you keep up with your weekly PWC's, driftwood should not cause any problems. I have two nice pieces in my goldfish tank but I have harder water than you, so it's never been much of an issue for me. This article http://discusrebels.com/Articles/PP.htm says that Hydrogen Peroxide or most dechlors will neutralize P.P. and that P.P. will kill the nitrifying bacteria so you might want to re-dose your tank with your dechlor just to be safe and test your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates daily before doing any PWC's to see how the nitrogen cycle is doing. I'm guessing you are NOT running carbon right now since you are using medications.... right? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny i don't have any plants, should i get some and if yes what type is best for low-medium light? no rocks, no coral, no shells, only the one decoration that came with the tank and i added a piece of wood yesterday for the aquarium, bought it at the fish store Aquarius, scrubbed it then soaked it in Permanganate for about 30 minutes then rinsed well in tap water then rinsed in tank water i removed from tank i have not used salt other than way back when i fist joined i used salt 3 days in a row, and i have done 2 or 3 PWC since stopping the salt. i used the Pima fix for 4 days now and the spot on the Oranda's tail is clearing up nicely. i added an air stone about 5 days ago to make sure they are getting enough air in the water Beats me why the nitrates went down ......... haven't changed the water in a couple of days, it is due tomorrow for a PWC ....... Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny Well, lets see what the 48 hour baseline tests turn out to be on your tap water before making any assumptions about your final baseline figures. As far as changing your water, NO... there is no need to change anything with your water. Your KH is a little low, but you can use Baking Soda or other source of carbonate to raise it, if we find there is a need, but as long as it's staying between 60-80ppm (3-4 dH) before you do a new PWC, then it will be fine. As the fish get larger, this will have to be tested on a regular basis right before each PWC to make sure the KH level is staying high enough. If the KH gets too low, it can lead to a pH crash but this does not seem to be a problem yet. Back to your tap water baseline... Quite often, the pH, KH and GH will change.. most often the pH, during the 48 hour baseline tests. These change due to the buffers added by your water utility to raise the pH while the water is in the pipes to help prevent or slow down corrosion. As these buffers are exposed to air and light, they'll diminish in effectiveness (that's why many chemicals, medicines, etc., are kept in dark brown bottles and kept sealed). Since your GH appears to have gone up, it could be due to the salt in your tank. Are you adding salt? I know I should remember but I help in several forums and I quit trying to remember each tank's situation a long time ago. If you do have salt in your tank, that will raise the hardness a little and depending on how much salt, if any, that could be the reason for your increase. What else do you have in the tank that could be raising the hardness? Rocks, coral, etc.? Do you have live plants? I'm curious why your nitrates went down from 5ppm to 0ppm. Did you do any PWC's? No need to post all of them other computations. The main two used are ppm (mg/l) or dH. While the exact figure is 17.9ppm per dH, I simply use 20 to get a close enough approximation... so 80ppm KH becomes 4 dH... 60ppm becomes 3 dH, 220ppm becomes 11 dH. Goldfish and many other fish actually like and need harder water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny just tested the tap water straight from the tap before adding dechlor (i found the Prime so i bought it) GH = 120 (moderately hard water) KH = 80 mg/L PH = 7.4 Nitrate = 0 ppm Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm friday test results from the tank are PH is 7.2 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm Nitrate is 5 ppm KH is 60 mg/L GH is 220 ppm (very hard according to the hagen chart) water temp is 74 Today from the tank: PH = 7.2 Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm Nitrate = 0 ppm KH = 60 mg/L GH = 220 ppm water temp is 74 KH x 0.056 = 336 gH° KH x 0.07 = 42 Clark H° KH x 0.6 fH° KH x 1 = 60 hardness° KH x 0.02 = 1.2 mEq/L what could cause the hardness of my tank water to change ? i have not added or removed anything?? both filters now have the bio max, particle filter and fine particle filters should i soften the water or leave well enough alone? if i need to soften the water what is the safest way to do it without stressing the fish and changing the PH ? i have to get ready for work so i will check my emails just before leaving and again tonight when i get home before doing anything :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34979	From: bill1433	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals

Would Seachem's Prime help with this?   Bill --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 10:30 PM I would think it's fine to use. Basic dechlor's that treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals have been used for a long time with no apparent adverse side effects. If you haven't seen me post this before, either API's Tap Water Conditioner or Top Fin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are two of the most cost effective products that I've seen in the 8 oz. to 16 oz. sizes. There may be better bargains with other brands on larger sizes. I used to buy the powdered product for pond usage but bought a gallon of liquid once also but it was more expensive. Here's one where this 500gm package will make a gallon of dechlor and it's only $6.50... but a gallon of dechlor would last me for years and years nowadays with only aquariums... although I don't think it goes bad. http://secure. sciencecompany. com/Sodium- Thiosulfate- Pentahydrate- 500g-P6376C 670.aspx I just don't remember if Sodium Thiosulfate also treats heavy metals. Here's a snip from Kordon's site about heavy metals and it mentions "tetrasodium salts" so I'm not sure if the Sodium Thiosulfate also has these salts in it (but read on as I answer this later). (START SNIP) The scientists associated with Kordon found that the best way to control and eliminate heavy metals in the water is by the use of nontoxic forms of one or more Edetate compounds as used in agricultural chemicals, hydroponics, and medical chelation therapy. The basic chemical formula from which proper compounds are derived for aquarium and pond water conditioning is usually described chemically as Ethylene Diamine TetraAcetate. In the form of tetrasodium salts, which is used as a chelating agent to eliminate all heavy metals. The scientists associated with Kordon pioneered in developing the use of the proper Edetate compounds in aquarium and pond water conditioners many years before others followed in aquaculture and elsewhere. Kordon continues to pioneer in improvements. (END SNIP) The MSDS on API's Tap Water Dechlorinator (which also treats heavy metals) has the following: http://cms.marsfish care.com/ files/msds/ tapwaterconditio ner_2449. pdf NAME CAS RN % sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 30.2 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 9.8 So... it seems the EDTA salts are something in addition to the S.T. so disregard the powdered S.T. as it will only act as a dechlor. Another liquid brand I just remembered is Weco Dechlor (and treats heavy metals) which was pretty cheap but I haven't priced it in a while either but this site http://www.enkoi. com/subcat253. html has the gallon size for $27..50 and it looks pretty efficient at 2 drops per gallon which would be around 1ml per 10G... which is near what the API and Top Fin dechlors treat. API advertises 1 drop per gallon http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 46. Many other dechlor products use anywhere from 2ml to 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water.. Note: 20 drops = 1ml (most of the time) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Is it ok to use a dechlor product that takes care of heavy metals when doing PWC even if you do not have chlorine or chloramine? I have well water so I don't have to worry about chlorine/chloramine , but I may have some heavy metal issues. I have not tested my water for the metals. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34980	From: Darlene	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Q: Hard Water / Lenny

ok i just retested the nitrates in my tank (in case i did the test wrong .....) it is still 0 ppm the tap water i just tested for ammonia ..... 0 ppm now i am off to bed since a have to be up at 6 am for work :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34981	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question

Yeah, I was thinking it might need some kind of bracing, but really, once it's installed, there wouldn't be that much pressure on it. But then again, I hadn't thought about what would happen if the seal breaks and I have the filter drawing from one tank and returning to the other. Yikes! That would be a real mess. I was doing some more searches on polycarbonate tubing and I think they may have some give to them, so I'll probably go with the acrylic tubing. There's not that much difference in price at usplastic.com . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question Man.. I'd be worried about that seam breaking.. or even being able to get a good seam on a 1/8" or 1/16" thick piece of acrylic/polycarbonate tubing. If it was 1/4" thick or something like that, I'd feel a little better about getting a good seat but it would be iffy with such thin material. At least the seams would be over the tanks though and wouldn't be pressure points! ;-) As long as the tanks are able to handle the extra water volume if either of the seams leak, which would cause the tube to lose it's vacuum, then it would work.. unless you had the filter system set up to pump water through the tube and then it would empty one of the tanks onto the floor. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question Something I was considering a while back was using acrylic tubing to make a water bridge. My thought was if I bought a piece long enough I could have TAP Plastics make a 45 degree cut, turn the cut off piece 180 degrees and seal the pieces together. This should make a 90 degree turn. Do this on each end and it would all be acrylic, no white or black plastic end pieces to obstruct the view. But since that kind of tubing is out of my price range I had to pass on the idea. If the tubing you are looking at is rigid you may be able to do this. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 3:35 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question I picked up another 20G tank and all accessories on Craigslist for $35. It'll be a while before I'm ready to set it up, but I'm pricing materials to build a water bridge. I decided the one on eBay would probably be a real hassle to alter to my specs. I want the vertical tubes to extend at least below the 25% PWC line. I found a place that sells polycarbonate tubing and I was wondering if this is a reasonable price or if anyone knows where I could find it cheaper. Also, do you think the 1/16" wall width will be ok for a 3" diameter tube or does it need to be 1/8"? The horizontal ru n will be no more than a foot long. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&catego ry%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993 <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&categ ory%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993> OR http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx <http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx> They also have acrylic and clear pvc tubing. The acrylic is a bit more. The clear pvc is a lot more. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34982	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

Sizing a UPS can be a lot of fun. If you buy a 750, most people assume it can handle 750 watts, however, UPS's are really measured in volt-amps. You can look and look on your electronics or other appliances, and not find a volt-amp measurement anywhere. There is a white paper that kind of explains the relationship that can be found on the APC, and I am sure that Tripp-lite, Belkin, and other manufacturers might have similar explanations to be found on their sites. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > Thanks for the tips Lenny, we have the battery backup systems on most of > the other electronics (tv, cable box, computers etc), but that's a good > idea to get for the fish tanks. I've noticed our battery backups don't > last that long, rarely even the 20 minutes that the box says they will. > I get the APC ones, but I think they're the less powerful ones, will > have to see what our walmart carries the next time I can make it out > there. I made it home today with a little bit of work, thankfully they > are keeping the roads somewhat plowed so far. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You should be OK as far as the nitrifying bacteria go. You might have > > had a > > small die off but they are capable of doubling their colony size every > > 24-48 > > hours (depending on water parameters) but more than likely, you won't even > > see a mini-cycle. Something you can do... just for your filter systems... > > is get UPS', like those used on computers, and plug your filter > > systems into > > them. > > > > Start looking on freecycle.org, craigslist.org, etc., for free used > > ones. I > > just picked up two BIG ONES for free that each needed the batteries > > replaced > > (this needs to be done every couple of years so some people just trash > > them > > and buy new UPS'. These are APC 1000 model's... much larger than the > > ones I > > had. I was able to replace the batteries for only $40.00 plus shipping on > > eBay... which is a fraction of what these units sell for new. I even paid > > more than that for my new APC 650's that I was using. I also use UPS' > > on my > > entertainment center and obviously on my computer. It beats the heck > > out of > > having the fix the time and programming on my dvr, vcr's, tv and other > > electronics on the entertainment center every time there's a power > > outage or > > surge... and it protects the electronics as well. > > > > Read my blog, "Power Outage! - How me and my fish survived Hurricane > > Katrina" for more info on how a UPS can be used during a long term power > > outage to keep your nitrifying bacteria alive... including having a power > > inverter that can be run off of your car cigarette lighter and use that to > > recharge the UPS on a daily basis and to power the filters whenever > > the car > > is running to recharge the UPS.... but you'll need a long extension > > cord if > > you decide to leave your car down the hill. ;-) > > > > Of course, if you do get a generator, I'm sure your neighbors will be more > > than happy to forego any rules about having it running outside as long as > > you let them enjoy some of your heat. I had extension cords running to two > > other homes running off of my generator during Gustav this past > > August. The > > problem would be where to keep it when you're not in need... maybe hide it > > under your barbecue pit? Are you allowed a barbecue pit? I know many > > homeowner associations are run by Hitler/Hussein wannabe's and you are > > supposed to walk lock-step behind all their rules... or you can start a > > coup, like I did... and throw the bums out! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > > > So yesterday we had a couple power outages, the first of which lasted the > > longest, perhaps about 45 minutes or so and then came on for a half > > hour and > > back off again for about 20-30 minutes. I'm curious if this could have > > killed off a lot of my nitrifying bacteria? I live in a condo so having a > > generator somewhere is not exactly something that could be easily > > done, as I > > don't have any personal property outside of my condo. > > And if anyone is curious we have over 3 feet of snow at my place, I'm > > almost > > snowed in at this point and it keeps coming down! Not the kind of white > > winter I would have liked, it can stop snowing any time as far as I'm > > concerned, especially since my car is stuck down the hill and can't > > make it > > home even. > > > > Amber > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals

Bill, Yes, Prime will certainly work but it is a lot more expensive than the products I listed. Prime will also act as a dechlor, treat heavy metals and also treat a certain amount of ammonia but Jimmy was mainly concerned about heavy metals that might be coming up with his well water.. so this thread should interest you as well. With your one or two tanks, using a basic dechlor is probably as cost effective as you might need. I'm pretty sure Jimmy has ponds as well as tanks so finding an affordable solution to potential heavy metals is something to certainly look into. Jimmy, If you haven't picked up on it in my original reply and I forgot to highlight it, but if you can find just the Ethylene Diamine TetraAcetate and figure out the solution.... or find EDTA tetrasodium salt with the specific CAS number of 64-02-8 (read on.. I found it for you ;-)) and prepare a 10% solution, you could probably treat your water with only that since you don't really need the dechlor part, Sodium Thiosulfate. API's Tap Water Conditioner uses a 9.8% solution of this chemical.... 10% for simplicity. Here's the MSDS on it... http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/e0200.htm with the manufacturers info on the MSDS and the jtbaker.com site must be a distributor since they provide the MSDS. If you Google 'CAS 64-02-8' you will see many sites that have info on this chemical. Then click on the Shopping link http://www.google.com/products?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=CAS%2064-02-8&um=1&sa=N&t ab=wf and you'll find a couple of photo supply outlets that sell it. A pound is only $15.75 and will likely last you the rest of your life. 100gms is $7.75. http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/cart/EDTA-NA4-Tetrasodium-Salt-100g-p-233. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Would Seachem's Prime help with this? Bill --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 10:30 PM I would think it's fine to use. Basic dechlor's that treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals have been used for a long time with no apparent adverse side effects. If you haven't seen me post this before, either API's Tap Water Conditioner or Top Fin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are two of the most cost effective products that I've seen in the 8 oz. to 16 oz. sizes. There may be better bargains with other brands on larger sizes. I used to buy the powdered product for pond usage but bought a gallon of liquid once also but it was more expensive. Here's one where this 500gm package will make a gallon of dechlor and it's only $6.50... but a gallon of dechlor would last me for years and years nowadays with only aquariums... although I don't think it goes bad. http://secure. sciencecompany. com/Sodium- Thiosulfate- Pentahydrate- 500g-P6376C 670.aspx I just don't remember if Sodium Thiosulfate also treats heavy metals. Here's a snip from Kordon's site about heavy metals and it mentions "tetrasodium salts" so I'm not sure if the Sodium Thiosulfate also has these salts in it (but read on as I answer this later). (START SNIP) The scientists associated with Kordon found that the best way to control and eliminate heavy metals in the water is by the use of nontoxic forms of one or more Edetate compounds as used in agricultural chemicals, hydroponics, and medical chelation therapy. The basic chemical formula from which proper compounds are derived for aquarium and pond water conditioning is usually described chemically as Ethylene Diamine TetraAcetate. In the form of tetrasodium salts, which is used as a chelating agent to eliminate all heavy metals. The scientists associated with Kordon pioneered in developing the use of the proper Edetate compounds in aquarium and pond water conditioners many years before others followed in aquaculture and elsewhere. Kordon continues to pioneer in improvements. (END SNIP) The MSDS on API's Tap Water Dechlorinator (which also treats heavy metals) has the following: http://cms.marsfish care.com/ files/msds/ tapwaterconditio ner_2449. pdf NAME CAS RN % sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 30.2 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 9.8 So... it seems the EDTA salts are something in addition to the S.T. so disregard the powdered S.T. as it will only act as a dechlor. Another liquid brand I just remembered is Weco Dechlor (and treats heavy metals) which was pretty cheap but I haven't priced it in a while either but this site http://www.enkoi. com/subcat253. html has the gallon size for $27..50 and it looks pretty efficient at 2 drops per gallon which would be around 1ml per 10G... which is near what the API and Top Fin dechlors treat. API advertises 1 drop per gallon http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 46. Many other dechlor products use anywhere from 2ml to 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water.. Note: 20 drops = 1ml (most of the time) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Is it ok to use a dechlor product that takes care of heavy metals when doing PWC even if you do not have chlorine or chloramine? I have well water so I don't have to worry about chlorine/chloramine , but I may have some heavy metal issues. I have not tested my water for the metals. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34984	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

Truth be told, most scientists who study such things have no belief in global warming. May be part of the reason why the phrase was reworked into "climate change" as well as being able to explain away such things as 3 foot snowfalls with less effort. Also, note that we are entering a reduced sun spot activity period, which always portends cooler weather. So button up kiddies, summer's over. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > Yeah.. the stats are in and 2008 is the coldest year on Earth in the past > decade. So much for AlGore's (pronounced like Igor) so-called "inconvenient > truth" about global warming. Luckily AlGore also invented the internet or > we might not know this. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > it's supposed to be "warmer" than the rest of Alaska, but apparently someone > forgot to tell mother nature that this year ;) I think we have more snow > than they do up north right now, LOL. Normally our winters are rather mild, > maybe some ice and a few inches of snow, but I haven't seen a winter like > this in over 10 years. This is the beginning of winter too, this is just > awful, hope the rest of winter isn't like this :( > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Oohhh.. SE Alaska... the warm part.. kind of like Florida! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > > > Southeast Alaska, on an island. I'm so tired of shoveling snow, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Darlene wrote: > > > > > > where do you live ?? > > > we have lots of snow too !! but now we have rain ! :((( > > > > > > Darlene > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34985	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question

I think I came up with a failsafe for the water flow if the water bridge empties. I can run a length (or 2) of narrower flexible tubing from one tank to the other in addition to the fish bridge. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question > Yeah, I was thinking it might need some kind of bracing, but really, > once it's installed, there wouldn't be that much pressure on it. But then > again, I hadn't thought about what would happen if the seal breaks and I > have the filter drawing from one tank and returning to the other. Yikes! > That would be a real mess. > > I was doing some more searches on polycarbonate tubing and I think > they > may have some give to them, so I'll probably go with the acrylic tubing. > There's not that much difference in price at usplastic.com . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:49 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question > > > Man.. I'd be worried about that seam breaking.. or even being able to get > a > good seam on a 1/8" or 1/16" thick piece of acrylic/polycarbonate tubing. > If it was 1/4" thick or something like that, I'd feel a little better > about > getting a good seat but it would be iffy with such thin material. At > least > the seams would be over the tanks though and wouldn't be pressure points! > ;-) As long as the tanks are able to handle the extra water volume if > either of the seams leak, which would cause the tube to lose it's vacuum, > then it would work.. unless you had the filter system set up to pump water > through the tube and then it would empty one of the tanks onto the floor. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question > > > Something I was considering a while back was using acrylic tubing to make > a > water bridge. My thought was if I bought a piece long enough I could have > TAP Plastics make a 45 degree cut, turn the cut off piece 180 degrees and > seal the pieces together. This should make a 90 degree turn. Do this on > each > end and it would all be acrylic, no white or black plastic end pieces to > obstruct the view. > > But since that kind of tubing is out of my price range I had to pass on > the > idea. If the tubing you are looking at is rigid you may be able to do > this. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... > <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 3:35 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question > > I picked up another 20G tank and all accessories on Craigslist for $35. > It'll be a while before I'm ready to set it up, but I'm pricing materials > to > build a water bridge. I decided the one on eBay would probably be a real > hassle to alter to my specs. I want the vertical tubes to extend at least > below the 25% PWC line. > > I found a place that sells polycarbonate tubing and I was wondering if > this > is a reasonable price or if anyone knows where I could find it cheaper. > Also, do you think the 1/16" wall width will be ok for a 3" diameter tube > or > does it need to be 1/8"? The horizontal ru n will be no more than a foot > long. > > http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&catego > ry%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993 > <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&categ > ory%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993> > > OR > > http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx <http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx> > > They also have acrylic and clear pvc tubing. The acrylic is a bit more. > The > clear pvc is a lot more. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34986	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question

Were you planning on having the tanks far apart or right next to each other? If right next to each other and you just wanted to take advantage of the added water volume without creating the actual bridge that the fish could swim through, then you could use a couple of U-tubes (at least two for redundancy) http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/2618/product.web with filter intake screens or a large pore intake sponge cover on them which would provide the water flow between the two tanks with the filter intake on one tank and the return in the other tank. You could also make these out of simple 3/4" to 1" PVC pipe and fittings but the above U-tubes will probably fit over two thinner framed tanks. Then you could turn the one tank into a nicely planted tank and have the goldfish in the other tank so the water and fish will still benefit from the plants without the goldfish constantly remodeling the plants for you. This following article about a DIY overflow box will give you ideas on bending plexiglass if you still want to make the bridge like the one on eBay but having it go deeper into your tanks. You could start off with a 1/4" sheet of plexiglass. Cut a 4" wide strip a couple of feet long and heating up the areas where you want to bend the strip until you have the shape you want with the two down sections going into each tank and the length you want between the tanks. Then measure the top piece so it's 4" above the bottom and where the bends should be and then you cut two side pieces in the inverted U shape, use acrylic epoxy (the same kind used on acrylic aquariums) to glue the two inverted U sides to the top and bottom shaped pieces, cut/sand off any rough edges.. especially the ends that go in the tank and viola... your own DIY bridge with a single sheet of plexiglass. Turn it upside down, fill it with water to test your seams, wiggle or bump it a little to test it's resiliency and if it doesn't leak, then you are good to go. If it leaks, at least with the 4" square openings, you should be able to work on any leaks in the seams from the inside and also from the outside of your bridge. This page on the USPlastics site has clear 90o PVC elbows or 45o bends.. but none of these pipe options are very cost friendly... to go with the pipes if you wanted to go with the pipe and have it all clear. Clear acrylic epoxy would probably work as a glue but check this out more or ask USPlastic's for a clear alternative glue. The only PVC glue that I use is purple. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&categ ory%5Fname=54&Page=1 I'd go with the least expensive option you can... saving any money for the larger tank that would be the best option for all involved. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question Yeah, I was thinking it might need some kind of bracing, but really, once it's installed, there wouldn't be that much pressure on it. But then again, I hadn't thought about what would happen if the seal breaks and I have the filter drawing from one tank and returning to the other. Yikes! That would be a real mess. I was doing some more searches on polycarbonate tubing and I think they may have some give to them, so I'll probably go with the acrylic tubing. There's not that much difference in price at usplastic.com . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question Man.. I'd be worried about that seam breaking.. or even being able to get a good seam on a 1/8" or 1/16" thick piece of acrylic/polycarbonate tubing. If it was 1/4" thick or something like that, I'd feel a little better about getting a good seat but it would be iffy with such thin material. At least the seams would be over the tanks though and wouldn't be pressure points! ;-) As long as the tanks are able to handle the extra water volume if either of the seams leak, which would cause the tube to lose it's vacuum, then it would work.. unless you had the filter system set up to pump water through the tube and then it would empty one of the tanks onto the floor. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question Something I was considering a while back was using acrylic tubing to make a water bridge. My thought was if I bought a piece long enough I could have TAP Plastics make a 45 degree cut, turn the cut off piece 180 degrees and seal the pieces together. This should make a 90 degree turn. Do this on each end and it would all be acrylic, no white or black plastic end pieces to obstruct the view. But since that kind of tubing is out of my price range I had to pass on the idea. If the tubing you are looking at is rigid you may be able to do this. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 3:35 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question I picked up another 20G tank and all accessories on Craigslist for $35. It'll be a while before I'm ready to set it up, but I'm pricing materials to build a water bridge. I decided the one on eBay would probably be a real hassle to alter to my specs. I want the vertical tubes to extend at least below the 25% PWC line. I found a place that sells polycarbonate tubing and I was wondering if this is a reasonable price or if anyone knows where I could find it cheaper. Also, do you think the 1/16" wall width will be ok for a 3" diameter tube or does it need to be 1/8"? The horizontal ru n will be no more than a foot long. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&catego <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&categ o> ry%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993 <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&categ <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&categ > ory%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993> OR http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx <http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx> <http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx <http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx> > They also have acrylic and clear pvc tubing. The acrylic is a bit more. The clear pvc is a lot more. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34987	From: William	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

I was in the tenth Special Forces Group in the US Army. We were the ones who would infiltrate behind enemy lines and cal in the air strike. I am of Native American ancestry and wear my hair long. I have built several "back grounds for tanks that were put together with slate that was "glued" together with shelves and places for growing plants in them. It took a lot of trying to break the slate into thin pieces so that it did not weigh too much but I did it and they came out beautiful. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > LOL. I know all about that. My dad died with his crew cut... that same > haircut he had all his life... well, at least since he joined the Corps at > 18. I was born in Beaufort, SC (the city where Parris Island is located) > when my dad was stationed there. My oldest brother also retired from the > Marine Corps. My middle brother and I both had crew cuts for the longest > time... probably well into middle school before my parents let us start > growing it a little longer... till it could touch our ears. > > I'm not sure if you know if but the owner of GoDaddy.com is a Marine and > does a very nice USMC birthday tribute every year on the website. > https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/holiday/usmc2008/playmovie.asp > > But this one is still my fav! From "What Is A Marine?" > http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/marine-corps-knowledge- t1721.html > "...We stole the eagle from the Air Force, the anchor from the Navy, and the > rope from the Army. On the 7th day, while God rested, we over-ran his > perimeter and stole the globe, and we've been running the show ever > since...." > > BTW... Semper Fi and thank you for your service. And I'm sure you know this > but for others reading this... there's no such thing as an "EX" Marine! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally! > > "So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a > while"............................. >   > don't know how to tell you this Len; but EX-Marines don't use > hair-dryer's!!!!! >   > Bill > > --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 8:31 PM > > > > > > > You can use double sided tape on each end for simplicity. More complicated > methods which make the backing adhere to the glass, which will make the > background "look" better have also been used. I've read of folks using > vaseline, baby oil or silicone oil between the glass and the background (on > the outside of the tank of course) on a mylar/vinyl background to make the > background look like it's part of the back glass instead of something just > stuck to the outside of the glass. Then squeegee the excess and bubbles out. > Your better half's soft rubber baking spatulas will work for this purpose... > or a credit card. ;-) > > DrsFosterSmith. com sells SeaView Gel for this purpose... > http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+6635+ > 18280&pca tid=18280 > > JBL makes a product also but I've only seen it available in UK and Euro > websites... > http://www.onlineaq uariumstore. com/acatalog/ JBL_FIXOL_ 50_ml.html > > So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a > while. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:49 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle----- ---Literally! > >   > I am working on a 29-gallon set-up and discovered I needed a background for > it.  To be truthful with you , I should say the family decided that, for > myself, I would have painted the thing dark blue. >   > However, to that end I purchased a background at Wal-Mart.  Now I have not > bought a background for a tank in 30-years and I do realize things might > have changed a bit and I was not disappointed! >   > The background is very sturdy (better quality than 30 years ago) however, it > was rolled!  Rolled very tightly, in a 1" roll.  Now I did get it to lay > flat on our dining room table with some effort and the aid of a few 2 x 4's > placed on its edge's and I'm thinking that it should be laying that flat by > itself but probably not do so till around the year 2045.  Since there's a > chance that ol'bill may not be here by 2045, I'd like to get this matter > corrected before I go!  The plastic seems very sturdy and I am wondering (as > I do a lot these days) if perhaps a ladies hair dryer might speed things > along. >   > Any thoughts or comic commentary (Yo, \\Steve//) is most welcomed, I really > need help with this one gang. >  Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34988	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

\\Steve//, Didn't I recently see a TV "expert" talking about the coming increase in sun spot or solar flare activity that could possibly cause major disruptions in our communication's satellite network? Is this "reduced" activity that you report just the calm before the storm? I guess folks will start doing their computer-Y2K preparations all over again. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria Truth be told, most scientists who study such things have no belief in global warming. May be part of the reason why the phrase was reworked into "climate change" as well as being able to explain away such things as 3 foot snowfalls with less effort. Also, note that we are entering a reduced sun spot activity period, which always portends cooler weather. So button up kiddies, summer's over. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > Yeah.. the stats are in and 2008 is the coldest year on Earth in the past > decade. So much for AlGore's (pronounced like Igor) so-called "inconvenient > truth" about global warming. Luckily AlGore also invented the internet or > we might not know this. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > it's supposed to be "warmer" than the rest of Alaska, but apparently someone > forgot to tell mother nature that this year ;) I think we have more snow > than they do up north right now, LOL. Normally our winters are rather mild, > maybe some ice and a few inches of snow, but I haven't seen a winter like > this in over 10 years. This is the beginning of winter too, this is just > awful, hope the rest of winter isn't like this :( > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Oohhh.. SE Alaska... the warm part.. kind of like Florida! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles > > referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > > > Southeast Alaska, on an island. I'm so tired of shoveling snow, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Darlene wrote: > > > > > > where do you live ?? > > > we have lots of snow too !! but now we have rain ! :((( > > > > > > Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34989	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: Water Bridge Tank Connector Question

Yep.. I talked about this redundancy when suggesting the U-tubes as a lower cost alternative to the water bridge. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question I think I came up with a failsafe for the water flow if the water bridge empties. I can run a length (or 2) of narrower flexible tubing from one tank to the other in addition to the fish bridge. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question > Yeah, I was thinking it might need some kind of bracing, but really, > once it's installed, there wouldn't be that much pressure on it. But > then again, I hadn't thought about what would happen if the seal > breaks and I have the filter drawing from one tank and returning to the other. Yikes! > That would be a real mess. > > I was doing some more searches on polycarbonate tubing and I think > they may have some give to them, so I'll probably go with the acrylic > tubing. > There's not that much difference in price at usplastic.com . > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:49 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question > > > Man.. I'd be worried about that seam breaking.. or even being able to > get a good seam on a 1/8" or 1/16" thick piece of > acrylic/polycarbonate tubing. > If it was 1/4" thick or something like that, I'd feel a little better > about getting a good seat but it would be iffy with such thin > material. At least the seams would be over the tanks though and > wouldn't be pressure points! > ;-) As long as the tanks are able to handle the extra water volume if > either of the seams leak, which would cause the tube to lose it's > vacuum, then it would work.. unless you had the filter system set up > to pump water through the tube and then it would empty one of the tanks onto the floor. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question > > > Something I was considering a while back was using acrylic tubing to > make a water bridge. My thought was if I bought a piece long enough I > could have TAP Plastics make a 45 degree cut, turn the cut off piece > 180 degrees and seal the pieces together. This should make a 90 degree > turn. Do this on each end and it would all be acrylic, no white or > black plastic end pieces to obstruct the view. > > But since that kind of tubing is out of my price range I had to pass > on the idea. If the tubing you are looking at is rigid you may be able > to do this. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... > <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 3:35 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Bridge Tank Connector Question > > I picked up another 20G tank and all accessories on Craigslist for $35. > It'll be a while before I'm ready to set it up, but I'm pricing > materials to build a water bridge. I decided the one on eBay would > probably be a real hassle to alter to my specs. I want the vertical > tubes to extend at least below the 25% PWC line. > > I found a place that sells polycarbonate tubing and I was wondering if > this is a reasonable price or if anyone knows where I could find it > cheaper. > Also, do you think the 1/16" wall width will be ok for a 3" diameter > tube or does it need to be 1/8"? The horizontal ru n will be no more > than a foot long. > > http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic& > catego > <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic > &catego> > ry%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993 > <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic > &categ > <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic > &categ> > ory%5Fname=68&product%5Fid=24993> > > OR > > http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx <http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx> > <http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx <http://tinyurl.com/6wcydx> > > > They also have acrylic and clear pvc tubing. The acrylic is a bit more. > The > clear pvc is a lot more. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34990	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/29/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille

Monday Night Check in (Day 12 reduced salt - 28 total) (3 days PraziPro) - Baseline 48 Hours: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm This was done on straight tap water - no Prime. I'll have to do another with the Prime and see what the difference is. I'm waiting on a call back from the water company for the chloramine info. - Tank: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: .10 to .15ppm; Nitrite: .10ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - Lucille is getting more red, this time along the lower edge of the tail. It really does look blood red, not like the deep orange on her head. I've never seen a goldfish turn this color red. But she seems to be acting normal. She(probably he) does seem a bit plump, though - not dropsy, scale spreading plump, but still rather round - fat, maybe? - The reason I said probably he is that I think I'm starting to see that what-do-you-call-it, starring? It looks like someone sprinkled fairy dust along her (sorry) back. It doesn't look like white specs of salt. It looks more like glitter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) > Sunday Night Check in (Day 11 of reduced salt - 27 total) > > - I haven't seen a fish resting on the bottom of the tank ALL DAY!!! > :-D > - Baseline 24 hours: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > - Tank (wasn't able to do a PWC yet- I'm off to do that as soon as I send > this message): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .10 to .15ppm; > Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm > - 5G PWC (as soon as I sign off) (including 5tsp salt, 1.25ml PraziPro, > and > .5ml Prime) > > Does ammonium show up on the ammonia test or if it were all converted, > would the test read zero? > > Is there anything besides PWCs or adding plants that will help remove > the nitrates once the tank is completely cycled? > > Oh criminy, the cat just knocked over the Christmas tree. I'm off to > pick it up and do the PWC. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:00 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a > fungus > problem?) > > > Good move on changing the subject line -- and being ABLE to change > it. Nice to see that the fungus issue is behind you; that's at least > one step in the right direction in getting these fish back to good > health. CB's increased activity is even more encouraging than before. > > Keeping an eye on the ammonia level, I would do an additional PWC > (but a somewhat smaller one) at this time, and replace the removed > PraziPro, and add Prime with it. While you don't want the ammonia > (ammonium) to increase much more, neither do you want to physically > remove too much ammonium yet even though ideally you would strive for > a zero (0) ammonia level in a fully cycled tank. I'm not fully > convinced that your tank is completely cycled yet. You don't want to > starve out your nitrifying bacteria -- but happily, your midnight > readings indicate your nitrobacters and nitrospinas (nitrite- > converting bacteria) are WELL populated as witness the 0 reading of > this compound, having been completely converted to nitrate, but for > some reason the nitrosomonas and nitrospiras (ammonia-converting > bacteria) seem a bit slow and their populations may need building up > (and would need food/ammonium with it). > > The baseline readings certainly make it appear as though your tap > water does not contain chloramine, yet an earlier baseline reading of > your tap water appeared to be a contradictory enigma when in went > from 0.0 to 0.25 the next day. To be assured on this, I'd suggest > you still contact your water company tomorrow, as was planned. > > You might give PetSmart a call on whether they do water testing, > before going there, but I tend to doubt that they do (hope I'm > wrong). If need be, give the LFS a shot at it while watching for his > proper procedures. As long as he makes these tests properly and > gives you the actual results (check those readings along with him, if > he allows), you don't need to take any further advise from him > regarding these readings. > > I would maintain the salt at its present level for the time being. > This amount should not interfere with any of the aquarium's life > functions, unless you have plants; I'd wait until you're completely > out of the woods with health concerns, and continue watching any > further red streaking of any fins. With your suspicion of Raven's > and CB's tails being nipped by Lucille now being confirmed, this may > be the direct cause of the redness in CB's tail and this salt > addition will help prevent any fungusing of the damaged tissue. As I > first started reading this account of CB having a shortened and > raggedy caudal fin, the disease of fin-rot went through my mind up > until I read your sighting of Lucille picking on the other two fish. > Hiding places and plant cover do seem in order, but this behavior > only increases the need for a larger tank sooner. As this may be pre- > spawning behavior on the part of Lucille, you may have to change her > (his? name to Louis! (LOL) Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> >> > Saturday Night Check in (Day 10 of reduced salt - 26 total): >> >> - Baseline #1 on straight tap water: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: 0ppm; > Nitrite: >> 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm >> - Tank (midnight): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: > almost 0ppm; >> Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm >> - CB has been very active today - almost back to normal. >> >> I figured since the fungus is a thing of the past I should > probably >> change the subject line. >> >> Noting the Ammonia level, since I gave the PraziPro yesterday > at 5pm, >> should I do a PWC and treat the replacement water with PraziPro or > should I >> just add more Prime to control the ammonia? >> >> I'm looking for someplace to take a water sample from the > aquarium and >> have it tested so I can tell if my kit is giving me accurate > results. Will >> PetSmart do that kind of thing? I only know of one LFS and as I > said before >> it's kind of a dirty little place. I might buy sealed containers > of fish >> products, but I wouldn't buy any fish there and I'm not so sure I'd > trust >> their advice. >> >> Also, since everyone agrees that Lucille probably doesn't have >> Septicemia, should I stop replacing salt with any PWCs? I really > don't >> think it's a color change. It looks much more like blood to me. >> >> Someone mentioned about CB's tail is so short. It was longer > in spots, >> but raggedy, and the raggedy bits finally fell off, but the tail > seems to be >> growing back some, now. Now that the fish are acting healthier, I > do notice >> Lucille nipping at CB's tail sometimes. I had originally suspected > that >> both CB's and Raven's tails had been nibbled on. In a 10 gallon > tank, where >> could they have escaped to? Hopefully, I can keep Lucille > entertained >> enough and give CB places to hide. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> --------------------Insertion for continuity--------------- >> >> Deb, As \\Steve// suggests (points out), usually as a normal >> progression of Hemorrhagic Septicemia in fish, it will be noted as >> starting at the base of the fins -- not as starting at the exterior >> finges of the fins. While I couldn't get a very clear picture, it >> doesn't seem as if this condition exists in your fish. Of course, >> keep us advised of any changes. Its quite normal for many Goldfish >> to change color and color patterns as they grow, and as your's are >> resuming growth, this may well be what is taking place. This >> generally occurs when they are slightly older -- and by this, its >> conceded that along with the slight additional age at which this >> occurs, the fish would naturally be larger. As your fish may have >> been held back in growth, and may not be indicative of this >> phenomenon, their age may be sufficient for them to start undergoing >> these changes, but keep us posted. Ray >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" >> <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> > >> > I tried to get pictures and they're just too fuzzy. I did > get >> a short >> > video, though, that might be clear enough: >> > http://www.facebook.com/p.php? > i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU >> > OR >> > http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail >> > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> > >> ---------------End insertion for continuity--------------- >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:34 AM >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> >> >> > Friday Night Check in (Day 9 of Reduced Salt - 25 Days total) > (Starting >> > PraziPro): >> > >> > Wed (Christmas Eve): >> > - 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: almost > 0ppm; >> > Nitrate: >> > 5 to 10ppm >> > - 1tsp Amquel+ @ 11AM (2nd half of dose) >> > >> > Thu (Christmas Day): >> > - 11AM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 5 to >> > 10ppm >> > - .5cc Prime @ 1PM (I wouldn't normally do this, but there was > no time >> > for >> > a PWC and I wanted to keep the ammonia down until Friday) >> > - Midnight: Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0 to .25ppm; > Nitrate: almost >> > 10ppm >> > - 1cc Prime @ midnight (same reasoning- had to way the risk of > extra >> > Prime >> > against that of too much Ammonia) >> > >> > Fri (today): >> > - PWC @ 3PM (7G out, 8G in, 19G ttl in tank) >> > - Treated each G of new water with 1tsp salt and .1cc Prime >> > - 5PM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 > to 10ppm >> > - 4.8cc PraziPro @ 5:30PM >> > >> > I won't stop using the Brita filter, but will use the Prime > for PWCs >> > until I get the fish through the PraziPro and know what's going > on with >> > the >> > chlorine/chloramines situation. I did notice that the pH dropped > 2 points >> > with the water treatment. That's probably a good thing. >> > >> > I dodged a bullet Christmas Eve. I went to the pet store for > dog >> > food, >> > because I also needed to get the aquarium stuff. If hubby had > gone, he >> > was >> > going to surprise me with a small school of neon tetras to put > with the >> > goldfish. *sigh* I doubt they even have the same environmental > needs and >> > I >> > keep trying to explain that the goldfish have already maxed out > the tank >> > bio-load, not to mention that they still have health problems. > It goes in >> > one ear and out the other. His sister has two goldfish in what > looks like >> > a >> > 2.5 gallon tank and they're "just fine." Hubby wants me to stunt > my fish >> > so >> > they don't turn into carps. I'll rehome them and shut down the > aquarium >> > before I do that. I've put too much work into getting them > healthy. >> > >> > Oops. Bedtime. >> > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:48 PM >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> > >> > >> > Yes, I remember this set of readings. With day 2 already > having .25 >> > ppm of ammonia, this would seem quite sudden -- and to me, > suspicious >> > although I could be wrong. By your 1st day result for ammonia, it >> > would not appear as though you have chloramine in your tap water, >> > although I would still prefer the reply from your water company > to be >> > sure. >> > >> > If you need to do a PWC before the third day, removing a portion > of >> > the PraziPro in doing this, yes you should replace the portion of >> > PraziPro you removed at that time. You cannot expect the > medication >> > to perform as though it were at full strength, when you remove > some >> > of it. If, for instance, you remove and replace 6 gallons of > water >> > as a PWC of your tank of 18 gallons, you'll need to replace 1/3 of >> > the amount of PraziPro you initially started with. The aquarium- >> > solution strength PraziPro requires you use 1 tps per 20 gallons > (6 >> > drops less for 18 gallons); for 6 gallons, you'd need to replace a >> > bit less than 1/3 of a tsp (or 18 drops). Ray >> > >> > >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" >> > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> >> >> >> - Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): >> >> day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; >> > Nitrate: >> >> 0ppm >> >> 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: > 0ppm >> >> 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: > 0ppm >> >> >> >> - The question about treating the replacement water was for >> > PraziPro if I >> >> need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. >> >> >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> >> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> >> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM >> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> >> >> >> >> >> A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it >> >> appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water > supply, as >> >> the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. > CB >> >> may be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two >> >> fish, which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish >> > eating >> >> is a good sign, and encouraging to see. >> >> >> >> If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, > dechlor >> >> will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of > it. >> >> Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of >> > chloramine >> >> and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter >> > may >> >> be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what > you >> >> have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing >> > the >> >> chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for >> > removing >> >> chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be > able >> > to >> >> treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that > would >> >> otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water >> >> containing chlorine. >> >> >> >> The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, > if >> > it >> >> turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this >> >> ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your >> >> having chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from > any >> >> other source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done > right >> >> now. >> >> >> >> If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be > aware >> >> that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter >> > can >> >> create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as >> > your >> >> Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly >> >> reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it > without >> >> filtering it out. >> >> >> >> A good change to fresh water before introducing another > medication >> > is >> >> always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's >> >> rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK > (?) >> >> I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm >> >> reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and > I'm >> >> assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you > should >> >> ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You > should >> >> NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 > gallon >> >> PWC on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or >> >> dechlor, if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, > not >> >> 20 gallons. Ray >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" >> >> <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update >> >> later >> >> > tonight. >> >> > >> >> > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my >> >> Baseline tests >> >> > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. >> > I'll >> >> verify >> >> > that before my post tonight. >> >> > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a >> > picture. >> >> > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest >> >> more than >> >> > the others. >> >> > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita > tap >> >> filter. >> >> > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the >> >> Prime. For >> >> > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from > the >> >> filter, but >> >> > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water >> > before >> >> I do >> >> > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the >> >> fish don't >> >> > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on > Monday. >> >> > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need > at >> >> least 3 >> >> > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water > if I >> >> need to do >> >> > a PWC before then? >> >> > >> >> > More later. >> >> > >> >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> >> >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM >> >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now >> > beginning >> >> > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results >> > remaining >> >> > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to > suggest >> >> > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the > manner >> > in >> >> > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then > I >> >> > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your >> >> water >> >> > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is > far >> >> > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria >> > should >> >> > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new > ammonia/ammonium, >> >> > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be > expect >> > to >> >> > keep up. We'll work on it though. >> >> > >> >> > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not >> >> especially >> >> > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same > parameters >> >> > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop >> >> > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if > they >> > do >> >> > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some > development >> >> of >> >> > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of >> >> > Lucille, showing these streaks? >> >> > >> >> > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to > treat >> > for >> >> > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed > safe >> > to >> >> > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in >> >> conjuction >> >> > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild >> >> medication, >> >> > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. >> >> > >> >> > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in > addition >> > to >> >> > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) >> > need >> >> > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have > chlorine >> > in >> >> > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure > you >> >> do >> >> > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do > (but >> >> > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that >> > your >> >> > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- > or >> >> may >> >> > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If > you >> >> have >> >> > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more > water >> >> > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been >> >> using >> >> > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you >> > should >> >> > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in > an >> >> > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you > only >> >> > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and > continue >> > to >> >> > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste >> >> > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this > is >> > in >> >> > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell > you. >> >> > Ray >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" >> >> > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) >> >> > > >> >> > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly >> >> > under .25ppm; >> >> > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm >> >> > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM >> >> > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM >> >> > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G >> >> > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't > have >> >> an >> >> > > airstone) >> >> > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged >> >> > > >> >> > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the >> >> Prime >> >> > and also >> >> > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep >> >> > telling myself >> >> > > to get it and I keep forgetting. >> >> > > >> >> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> >> > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34991	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: saw my dream aqaurium

always..lol on the bad as Lenny..lol check out craiglist south Florida on the general sales section --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 1:57 PM well i do have a friend down in Florida and she has been asking me to come and visit ............ ......... ...... and i do have a ford focus station wagon....... ....... how long is the tank ?? will have to measure the interior space with the seats down .......LOLOLOL your as bad as Lenny for getting me thinking about things i should probably not think about :)))) LOLOL Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34992	From: Darlene	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Q: Hard Water / Lenny

I'm guessing you are NOT running carbon right now since you are using medications.... right? i took the carbon out since i am using the pima fix should i put it back in ? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34993	From: bill1433	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

Thanks Lenny, � I appreciate your thoughts.� And your right "... there's no such thing as an "EX" Marine!" � Bill --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 11:21 PM LOL. I know all about that. My dad died with his crew cut... that same haircut he had all his life... well, at least since he joined the Corps at 18. I was born in Beaufort, SC (the city where Parris Island is located) when my dad was stationed there. My oldest brother also retired from the Marine Corps. My middle brother and I both had crew cuts for the longest time... probably well into middle school before my parents let us start growing it a little longer... till it could touch our ears. I'm not sure if you know if but the owner of GoDaddy.com is a Marine and does a very nice USMC birthday tribute every year on the website. https://www. godaddy.com/ gdshop/holiday/ usmc2008/ playmovie. asp But this one is still my fav! From "What Is A Marine?" http://www.military -quotes.com/ forum/marine- corps-knowledge- t1721.html "...We stole the eagle from the Air Force, the anchor from the Navy, and the rope from the Army. On the 7th day, while God rested, we over-ran his perimeter and stole the globe, and we've been running the show ever since...." BTW... Semper Fi and thank you for your service. And I'm sure you know this but for others reading this... there's no such thing as an "EX" Marine! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle----- ---Literally! "So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a while"...... ......... ......... ..... � don't know how to tell you this Len; but EX-Marines don't use hair-dryer's! !!!! � Bill --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle----- ---Literally! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 8:31 PM You can use double sided tape on each end for simplicity. More complicated methods which make the backing adhere to the glass, which will make the background "look" better have also been used. I've read of folks using vaseline, baby oil or silicone oil between the glass and the background (on the outside of the tank of course) on a mylar/vinyl background to make the background look like it's part of the back glass instead of something just stuck to the outside of the glass. Then squeegee the excess and bubbles out.. Your better half's soft rubber baking spatulas will work for this purpose.... or a credit card. ;-) DrsFosterSmith. com sells SeaView Gel for this purpose... http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+6635+ 18280&pca tid=18280 JBL makes a product also but I've only seen it available in UK and Euro websites... http://www.onlineaq uariumstore. com/acatalog/ JBL_FIXOL_ 50_ml.html So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a while. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:49 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle----- ---Literally! � I am working on a 29-gallon set-up and discovered I needed a background for it.� To be truthful with you , I should say the family decided that, for myself, I would have painted the thing dark blue. � However, to that end�I purchased a background at Wal-Mart.� Now I have not bought a background for a tank in 30-years and I do realize things might have changed a bit and I was not disappointed! � The background is very sturdy (better quality than 30 years ago) however, it was rolled!� Rolled very tightly, in a 1� roll.� Now I did get it to lay flat on our dining room table with some effort and the aid of a few 2 x 4�s placed on its edge�s and I�m thinking that it should be laying that flat by itself but probably not do so till around the year 2045.� Since there�s a chance that ol�bill may not be here by 2045, I�d like to get this matter corrected before I go!� The plastic seems very sturdy and I am wondering (as I do a lot these days) if perhaps a ladies hair dryer might speed things along. � Any thoughts or comic commentary (Yo, \\Steve//) is most welcomed, I really need help with this one gang. �Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34994	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

In a message dated 12/29/2008 6:51:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, warrenprint@... writes: Any thoughts or comic commentary (Yo, \\Steve//) is most welcomed, I really need help with this one gang. Bill It's called clear duct tape! It's the stuff that hold the universe together, the Force, if you will! Attach it with it to the back of the tank. Enid **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: CB, Raven and Lucille

The breeding stars or breeding tubercles are little white bumps on the gill covers and on the leading edges of the pectoral fins. Bumps anywhere else on the fish need to be diagnosed. The glitter look... what color is it?... could just be the natural reflection of a healthy fish or worse case, it could be the start of another sickness called Velvet - Description - Powder-like white, grey or gold dusting on surface of fish (finer than ich, more similar to the consistency of talc) from Pandora's Fish Disease page - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee and more reading here http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/othprotist.shtml and here http://www.fishvet.com/Oodinium.pdf and this long case history with lots of pics.. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/BugsyCostia0503.html (while Dataguru is very well read and knowledgeable, she and some of the fellow goldfish keepers at thegab.org have lots of fish health problems because they insist on promoting 10G per goldfish in her GAB forums... so those forums are a very good place to read and learn about goldfish from others mistakes... and what not to do.) Normally, the fish would appear sick with clamped fins, flashing/scratching on surfaces in the tank, etc. The salt treatment you did would/should have also taken care of any Ich or Velvet as well so I'm leaning against it being Velvet. Have you been looking at pictures of healthy goldfish to see if you see this same "look"? With all the problems that you've had, for a while, you will be predisposed to think normal things might be a problem. It's a natural reaction. Now... for your test results... Which brand kit do you have? You are showing levels of ammonia and nitrite in the 0.1 ppm range which is not a typical level reported by most test kits that I've used... or are you kind of guessing them numbers based on the color range between 0.0ppm and 0.25ppm? I also want to make sure that your test kit actually tests that low and that you didn't misplace the decimal point. Normally, we don't worry about levels below 0.25 in a tank that is still cycling.... although yours should be darn close to being completed. Since you are showing ammonia in your 48 hour tap water baseline tests, it likely means that you do have chloramine treated tap water. Your Prime will handle that with no problems and once your tank's nitrogen cycle is fully established, any dechlor will be OK. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille Monday Night Check in (Day 12 reduced salt - 28 total) (3 days PraziPro) - Baseline 48 Hours: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm This was done on straight tap water - no Prime. I'll have to do another with the Prime and see what the difference is. I'm waiting on a call back from the water company for the chloramine info. - Tank: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: .10 to .15ppm; Nitrite: .10ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm - Lucille is getting more red, this time along the lower edge of the tail. It really does look blood red, not like the deep orange on her head. I've never seen a goldfish turn this color red. But she seems to be acting normal. She(probably he) does seem a bit plump, though - not dropsy, scale spreading plump, but still rather round - fat, maybe? - The reason I said probably he is that I think I'm starting to see that what-do-you-call-it, starring? It looks like someone sprinkled fairy dust along her (sorry) back. It doesn't look like white specs of salt. It looks more like glitter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@... <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a fungus problem?) > Sunday Night Check in (Day 11 of reduced salt - 27 total) > > - I haven't seen a fish resting on the bottom of the tank ALL DAY!!! > :-D > - Baseline 24 hours: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 0ppm > - Tank (wasn't able to do a PWC yet- I'm off to do that as soon as I > send this message): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .10 to .15ppm; > Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm > - 5G PWC (as soon as I sign off) (including 5tsp salt, 1.25ml > PraziPro, and .5ml Prime) > > Does ammonium show up on the ammonia test or if it were all converted, > would the test read zero? > > Is there anything besides PWCs or adding plants that will help remove > the nitrates once the tank is completely cycled? > > Oh criminy, the cat just knocked over the Christmas tree. I'm off to > pick it up and do the PWC. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:00 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a > fungus > problem?) > > > Good move on changing the subject line -- and being ABLE to change it. > Nice to see that the fungus issue is behind you; that's at least one > step in the right direction in getting these fish back to good health. > CB's increased activity is even more encouraging than before. > > Keeping an eye on the ammonia level, I would do an additional PWC (but > a somewhat smaller one) at this time, and replace the removed > PraziPro, and add Prime with it. While you don't want the ammonia > (ammonium) to increase much more, neither do you want to physically > remove too much ammonium yet even though ideally you would strive for > a zero (0) ammonia level in a fully cycled tank. I'm not fully > convinced that your tank is completely cycled yet. You don't want to > starve out your nitrifying bacteria -- but happily, your midnight > readings indicate your nitrobacters and nitrospinas (nitrite- > converting bacteria) are WELL populated as witness the 0 reading of > this compound, having been completely converted to nitrate, but for > some reason the nitrosomonas and nitrospiras (ammonia-converting > bacteria) seem a bit slow and their populations may need building up > (and would need food/ammonium with it). > > The baseline readings certainly make it appear as though your tap > water does not contain chloramine, yet an earlier baseline reading of > your tap water appeared to be a contradictory enigma when in went from > 0.0 to 0.25 the next day. To be assured on this, I'd suggest you still > contact your water company tomorrow, as was planned. > > You might give PetSmart a call on whether they do water testing, > before going there, but I tend to doubt that they do (hope I'm wrong). > If need be, give the LFS a shot at it while watching for his proper > procedures. As long as he makes these tests properly and gives you the > actual results (check those readings along with him, if he allows), > you don't need to take any further advise from him regarding these > readings. > > I would maintain the salt at its present level for the time being. > This amount should not interfere with any of the aquarium's life > functions, unless you have plants; I'd wait until you're completely > out of the woods with health concerns, and continue watching any > further red streaking of any fins. With your suspicion of Raven's and > CB's tails being nipped by Lucille now being confirmed, this may be > the direct cause of the redness in CB's tail and this salt addition > will help prevent any fungusing of the damaged tissue. As I first > started reading this account of CB having a shortened and raggedy > caudal fin, the disease of fin-rot went through my mind up until I > read your sighting of Lucille picking on the other two fish. > Hiding places and plant cover do seem in order, but this behavior only > increases the need for a larger tank sooner. As this may be pre- > spawning behavior on the part of Lucille, you may have to change her > (his? name to Louis! (LOL) Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> >> > Saturday Night Check in (Day 10 of reduced salt - 26 total): >> >> - Baseline #1 on straight tap water: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: 0ppm; > Nitrite: >> 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm >> - Tank (midnight): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: > almost 0ppm; >> Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm >> - CB has been very active today - almost back to normal. >> >> I figured since the fungus is a thing of the past I should > probably >> change the subject line. >> >> Noting the Ammonia level, since I gave the PraziPro yesterday > at 5pm, >> should I do a PWC and treat the replacement water with PraziPro or > should I >> just add more Prime to control the ammonia? >> >> I'm looking for someplace to take a water sample from the > aquarium and >> have it tested so I can tell if my kit is giving me accurate > results. Will >> PetSmart do that kind of thing? I only know of one LFS and as I > said before >> it's kind of a dirty little place. I might buy sealed containers > of fish >> products, but I wouldn't buy any fish there and I'm not so sure I'd > trust >> their advice. >> >> Also, since everyone agrees that Lucille probably doesn't have >> Septicemia, should I stop replacing salt with any PWCs? I really > don't >> think it's a color change. It looks much more like blood to me. >> >> Someone mentioned about CB's tail is so short. It was longer > in spots, >> but raggedy, and the raggedy bits finally fell off, but the tail > seems to be >> growing back some, now. Now that the fish are acting healthier, I > do notice >> Lucille nipping at CB's tail sometimes. I had originally suspected > that >> both CB's and Raven's tails had been nibbled on. In a 10 gallon > tank, where >> could they have escaped to? Hopefully, I can keep Lucille > entertained >> enough and give CB places to hide. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> --------------------Insertion for continuity--------------- >> >> Deb, As \\Steve// suggests (points out), usually as a normal >> progression of Hemorrhagic Septicemia in fish, it will be noted as >> starting at the base of the fins -- not as starting at the exterior >> finges of the fins. While I couldn't get a very clear picture, it >> doesn't seem as if this condition exists in your fish. Of course, >> keep us advised of any changes. Its quite normal for many Goldfish to >> change color and color patterns as they grow, and as your's are >> resuming growth, this may well be what is taking place. This >> generally occurs when they are slightly older -- and by this, its >> conceded that along with the slight additional age at which this >> occurs, the fish would naturally be larger. As your fish may have >> been held back in growth, and may not be indicative of this >> phenomenon, their age may be sufficient for them to start undergoing >> these changes, but keep us posted. Ray >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" >> <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> > >> > I tried to get pictures and they're just too fuzzy. I did > get >> a short >> > video, though, that might be clear enough: >> > http://www.facebook.com/p.php? <http://www.facebook.com/p.php?> > i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU >> > OR >> > http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail <http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail> >> > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> > >> ---------------End insertion for continuity--------------- >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:34 AM >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> >> >> > Friday Night Check in (Day 9 of Reduced Salt - 25 Days total) > (Starting >> > PraziPro): >> > >> > Wed (Christmas Eve): >> > - 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: almost > 0ppm; >> > Nitrate: >> > 5 to 10ppm >> > - 1tsp Amquel+ @ 11AM (2nd half of dose) >> > >> > Thu (Christmas Day): >> > - 11AM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: under .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > Nitrate: 5 to >> > 10ppm >> > - .5cc Prime @ 1PM (I wouldn't normally do this, but there was > no time >> > for >> > a PWC and I wanted to keep the ammonia down until Friday) >> > - Midnight: Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0 to .25ppm; > Nitrate: almost >> > 10ppm >> > - 1cc Prime @ midnight (same reasoning- had to way the risk of > extra >> > Prime >> > against that of too much Ammonia) >> > >> > Fri (today): >> > - PWC @ 3PM (7G out, 8G in, 19G ttl in tank) >> > - Treated each G of new water with 1tsp salt and .1cc Prime >> > - 5PM: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: 5 > to 10ppm >> > - 4.8cc PraziPro @ 5:30PM >> > >> > I won't stop using the Brita filter, but will use the Prime > for PWCs >> > until I get the fish through the PraziPro and know what's going > on with >> > the >> > chlorine/chloramines situation. I did notice that the pH dropped > 2 points >> > with the water treatment. That's probably a good thing. >> > >> > I dodged a bullet Christmas Eve. I went to the pet store for > dog >> > food, >> > because I also needed to get the aquarium stuff. If hubby had > gone, he >> > was >> > going to surprise me with a small school of neon tetras to put > with the >> > goldfish. *sigh* I doubt they even have the same environmental > needs and >> > I >> > keep trying to explain that the goldfish have already maxed out > the tank >> > bio-load, not to mention that they still have health problems. > It goes in >> > one ear and out the other. His sister has two goldfish in what > looks like >> > a >> > 2.5 gallon tank and they're "just fine." Hubby wants me to stunt > my fish >> > so >> > they don't turn into carps. I'll rehome them and shut down the > aquarium >> > before I do that. I've put too much work into getting them > healthy. >> > >> > Oops. Bedtime. >> > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:48 PM >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> > >> > >> > Yes, I remember this set of readings. With day 2 already > having .25 >> > ppm of ammonia, this would seem quite sudden -- and to me, > suspicious >> > although I could be wrong. By your 1st day result for ammonia, it >> > would not appear as though you have chloramine in your tap water, >> > although I would still prefer the reply from your water company > to be >> > sure. >> > >> > If you need to do a PWC before the third day, removing a portion > of >> > the PraziPro in doing this, yes you should replace the portion of >> > PraziPro you removed at that time. You cannot expect the > medication >> > to perform as though it were at full strength, when you remove > some >> > of it. If, for instance, you remove and replace 6 gallons of > water >> > as a PWC of your tank of 18 gallons, you'll need to replace 1/3 of >> > the amount of PraziPro you initially started with. The aquarium- >> > solution strength PraziPro requires you use 1 tps per 20 gallons > (6 >> > drops less for 18 gallons); for 6 gallons, you'd need to replace a >> > bit less than 1/3 of a tsp (or 18 drops). Ray >> > >> > >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" >> > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> >> >> >> - Baseline tests on Brita-ed water (run Dec 6 - 8): >> >> day 1: pH: 7.5(may have been 7.6); Ammonia: 0ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; >> > Nitrate: >> >> 0ppm >> >> 24 Hours: pH: same; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: > 0ppm >> >> 48 Hours: ph: same; Ammonia: .50ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; Nitrate: > 0ppm >> >> >> >> - The question about treating the replacement water was for >> > PraziPro if I >> >> need to do another PWC before the 3rd day of treatment. >> >> >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> >> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> >> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:52 PM >> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> >> >> >> >> >> A baseline test for ammonia would be a big help. Right now, it >> >> appears as though you are receiving ammonia in your water > supply, as >> >> the compound water additive (chlorine + ammonia)-- chloramine. > CB >> >> may be more affected by internal parasites than are the other two >> >> fish, which may be cause for his decreased activity. All fish >> > eating >> >> is a good sign, and encouraging to see. >> >> >> >> If you have chloramine in your tap water, as is suspected, > dechlor >> >> will not take the place of your Brita filter in getting rid of > it. >> >> Dechlor will not break down the chlorine - ammonia bond of >> > chloramine >> >> and convert the ammonia to ammonium. As it is, your Brita filter >> > may >> >> be limited in its capacity to absorb chloramine, if this is what > you >> >> have, i.e., if your Brita filter's cartridge is good for removing >> > the >> >> chlorine from 2400 gallons of water, it may only be good for >> > removing >> >> chloramine from 600 gallons of water -- the cartridge may be > able >> > to >> >> treat only 25% of your tap water if containing chloramine that > would >> >> otherwise normally be able to treat 4 X that amount of water >> >> containing chlorine. >> >> >> >> The Prime will break the chlorine - ammonia bond in chloramine, > if >> > it >> >> turns out you have this in your tap water, and will convert this >> >> ammonia to ammonium. If your ammonia is not the result of your >> >> having chloramine, the Prime will still convert any ammonia from > any >> >> other source, into ammonium, which is what you need have done > right >> >> now. >> >> >> >> If it does turn out that you have chloramines, you should be > aware >> >> that this cannot come from the Brita filter, as though the filter >> > can >> >> create chloramine by combining chlorine and ammoina -- BUT -- as >> > your >> >> Brita filter's capacity to filter out chloramine may be greatly >> >> reduced, it may now be allowing chlormine to pass through it > without >> >> filtering it out. >> >> >> >> A good change to fresh water before introducing another > medication >> > is >> >> always appreciated, but it's better done as several smaller PWC's >> >> rather than one large one as you're suggesting you did. I THINK > (?) >> >> I'm reading you right on this last question (correct me if I'm >> >> reading you wrong). As for treating water when doing PWC's, and > I'm >> >> assuming you mean treating for chlorine or chloramine -- you > should >> >> ALWAYS treat ONLY for the replacement water of the PWC. You > should >> >> NEVER treat for the full volume of the tank. If you do a 6 > gallon >> >> PWC on the 20 gallon tank, you should add only enough Prime (or >> >> dechlor, if you have only chlorine) to treat 6 gallons of water, > not >> >> 20 gallons. Ray >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" >> >> <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update >> >> later >> >> > tonight. >> >> > >> >> > - Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my >> >> Baseline tests >> >> > were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. >> > I'll >> >> verify >> >> > that before my post tonight. >> >> > - Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a >> > picture. >> >> > - All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest >> >> more than >> >> > the others. >> >> > - Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita > tap >> >> filter. >> >> > It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the >> >> Prime. For >> >> > some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from > the >> >> filter, but >> >> > I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water >> > before >> >> I do >> >> > anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the >> >> fish don't >> >> > need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on > Monday. >> >> > - Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need > at >> >> least 3 >> >> > days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water > if I >> >> need to do >> >> > a PWC before then? >> >> > >> >> > More later. >> >> > >> >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> >> >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM >> >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now >> > beginning >> >> > to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results >> > remaining >> >> > at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to > suggest >> >> > your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the > manner >> > in >> >> > which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then > I >> >> > would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your >> >> water >> >> > supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is > far >> >> > from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria >> > should >> >> > be sufficient to take care of any influx of new > ammonia/ammonium, >> >> > even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be > expect >> > to >> >> > keep up. We'll work on it though. >> >> > >> >> > Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not >> >> especially >> >> > expected that all fish involved, affected by the same > parameters >> >> > which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop >> >> > Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if > they >> > do >> >> > still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some > development >> >> of >> >> > this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of >> >> > Lucille, showing these streaks? >> >> > >> >> > Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to > treat >> > for >> >> > Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed > safe >> > to >> >> > use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in >> >> conjuction >> >> > with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild >> >> medication, >> >> > which also should be a welcomed bit of info. >> >> > >> >> > As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in > addition >> > to >> >> > Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) >> > need >> >> > for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have > chlorine >> > in >> >> > your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure > you >> >> do >> >> > not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do > (but >> >> > then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that >> > your >> >> > Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- > or >> >> may >> >> > be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If > you >> >> have >> >> > chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more > water >> >> > companies are converting to this, not only should you have been >> >> using >> >> > at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you >> > should >> >> > not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in > an >> >> > effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you > only >> >> > have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and > continue >> > to >> >> > use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste >> >> > product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this > is >> > in >> >> > your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell > you. >> >> > Ray >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager" >> >> > <menagerie_manager@> wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced) >> >> > > >> >> > > - Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly >> >> > under .25ppm; >> >> > > Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm >> >> > > - 5G PWC @ 1PM >> >> > > - 6G PWC @ 11:30PM >> >> > > - maintaining salt at 1tsp/G >> >> > > - Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't > have >> >> an >> >> > > airstone) >> >> > > - Lucille's Septicemia unchanged >> >> > > >> >> > > I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the >> >> Prime >> >> > and also >> >> > > some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep >> >> > telling myself >> >> > > to get it and I keep forgetting. >> >> > > >> >> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish >> >> > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Q: Hard Water / Lenny

No. I would do the extra dose of dechlor as suggested to help combat any possible leaching of P.P. from the driftwood but save the carbon for when you will be needing it soon after the Pimafix treatment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 5:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny I'm guessing you are NOT running carbon right now since you are using medications.... right? i took the carbon out since i am using the pima fix should i put it back in ? Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34997	From: greychildren	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: hard times

Well sense my second half lost her job and my economics are not doing well i gone on an in venture asking companies like tetra and seachem for coupons or free samples. Here is what i gotten in response Tetra is sending me free samples of flake food and water treatment. Hakiri stated that i need to register with there mailing list, and i did there going to be sending me a free example of sinking wafers. Seachem said that they only give free samples to Fish club. to send them a letter with a fish club letter head and they will send free example of all there products

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34998	From: Trish Souza	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

hi, just wanted to thank you for all you,ve done serving our country during this terrible time in our history. you are great! thanks again and happy new year! --- On Tue, 12/30/08, William <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: From: William <dreammaker2623@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 5:54 AM I was in the tenth Special Forces Group in the US Army. We were the ones who would infiltrate behind enemy lines and cal in the air strike. I am of Native American ancestry and wear my hair long. I have built several "back grounds for tanks that were put together with slate that was "glued" together with shelves and places for growing plants in them. It took a lot of trying to break the slate into thin pieces so that it did not weigh too much but I did it and they came out beautiful. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > LOL. I know all about that. My dad died with his crew cut... that same > haircut he had all his life... well, at least since he joined the Corps at > 18. I was born in Beaufort, SC (the city where Parris Island is located) > when my dad was stationed there. My oldest brother also retired from the > Marine Corps. My middle brother and I both had crew cuts for the longest > time... probably well into middle school before my parents let us start > growing it a little longer... till it could touch our ears. > > I'm not sure if you know if but the owner of GoDaddy.com is a Marine and > does a very nice USMC birthday tribute every year on the website. > https://www. godaddy.com/ gdshop/holiday/ usmc2008/ playmovie. asp > > But this one is still my fav! From "What Is A Marine?" > http://www.military -quotes.com/ forum/marine- corps-knowledge- t1721.html > "...We stole the eagle from the Air Force, the anchor from the Navy, and the > rope from the Army. On the 7th day, while God rested, we over-ran his > perimeter and stole the globe, and we've been running the show ever > since...." > > BTW... Semper Fi and thank you for your service. And I'm sure you know this > but for others reading this... there's no such thing as an "EX" Marine! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle----- ---Literally! > > "So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a > while"...... ......... ......... ..... >   > don't know how to tell you this Len; but EX-Marines don't use > hair-dryer's! !!!! >   > Bill > > --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle----- ---Literally! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 8:31 PM > > > > > > > You can use double sided tape on each end for simplicity. More complicated > methods which make the backing adhere to the glass, which will make the > background "look" better have also been used. I've read of folks using > vaseline, baby oil or silicone oil between the glass and the background (on > the outside of the tank of course) on a mylar/vinyl background to make the > background look like it's part of the back glass instead of something just > stuck to the outside of the glass. Then squeegee the excess and bubbles out. > Your better half's soft rubber baking spatulas will work for this purpose... > or a credit card. ;-) > > DrsFosterSmith. com sells SeaView Gel for this purpose... > http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/prod_ display.cfm? c=3578+6635+ > 18280&pca tid=18280 > > JBL makes a product also but I've only seen it available in UK and Euro > websites... > http://www.onlineaq uariumstore. com/acatalog/ JBL_FIXOL_ 50_ml.html > > So.. why not a man's hairdryer... or maybe you haven't had that need for a > while. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:49 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle----- ---Literally! > >   > I am working on a 29-gallon set-up and discovered I needed a background for > it.  To be truthful with you , I should say the family decided that, for > myself, I would have painted the thing dark blue. >   > However, to that end I purchased a background at Wal-Mart.  Now I have not > bought a background for a tank in 30-years and I do realize things might > have changed a bit and I was not disappointed! >   > The background is very sturdy (better quality than 30 years ago) however, it > was rolled!  Rolled very tightly, in a 1" roll.  Now I did get it to lay > flat on our dining room table with some effort and the aid of a few 2 x 4's > placed on its edge's and I'm thinking that it should be laying that flat by > itself but probably not do so till around the year 2045.  Since there's a > chance that ol'bill may not be here by 2045, I'd like to get this matter > corrected before I go!  The plastic seems very sturdy and I am wondering (as > I do a lot these days) if perhaps a ladies hair dryer might speed things > along. >   > Any thoughts or comic commentary (Yo, \\Steve//) is most welcomed, I really > need help with this one gang. >  Bill > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 34999	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals

Thanks Lenny.  I am mainly concerned if the sodium thiosulfate will accumulate without having chlorine/chloramine to react with.  I've not been able to find anything on the web about this.  It is usually stated to use a dechlorinator if you are using tap water to do PWC, etc.  This is to be used as a precautionary measure against heavy metals since I don't know if they are present.  I don't want to cause more damage than I am preventing.  Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:30:50 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals I would think it's fine to use.. Basic dechlor's that treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals have been used for a long time with no apparent adverse side effects. If you haven't seen me post this before, either API's Tap Water Conditioner or Top Fin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are two of the most cost effective products that I've seen in the 8 oz. to 16 oz. sizes. There may be better bargains with other brands on larger sizes. I used to buy the powdered product for pond usage but bought a gallon of liquid once also but it was more expensive. Here's one where this 500gm package will make a gallon of dechlor and it's only $6.50... but a gallon of dechlor would last me for years and years nowadays with only aquariums... although I don't think it goes bad. http://secure. sciencecompany. com/Sodium- Thiosulfate- Pentahydrate- 500g-P6376C 670.aspx I just don't remember if Sodium Thiosulfate also treats heavy metals. Here's a snip from Kordon's site about heavy metals and it mentions "tetrasodium salts" so I'm not sure if the Sodium Thiosulfate also has these salts in it (but read on as I answer this later). (START SNIP) The scientists associated with Kordon found that the best way to control and eliminate heavy metals in the water is by the use of nontoxic forms of one or more Edetate compounds as used in agricultural chemicals, hydroponics, and medical chelation therapy. The basic chemical formula from which proper compounds are derived for aquarium and pond water conditioning is usually described chemically as Ethylene Diamine TetraAcetate. In the form of tetrasodium salts, which is used as a chelating agent to eliminate all heavy metals. The scientists associated with Kordon pioneered in developing the use of the proper Edetate compounds in aquarium and pond water conditioners many years before others followed in aquaculture and elsewhere. Kordon continues to pioneer in improvements. (END SNIP) The MSDS on API's Tap Water Dechlorinator (which also treats heavy metals) has the following: http://cms.marsfish care.com/ files/msds/ tapwaterconditio ner_2449. pdf NAME CAS RN % sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 30.2 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 9.8 So... it seems the EDTA salts are something in addition to the S.T. so disregard the powdered S.T. as it will only act as a dechlor. Another liquid brand I just remembered is Weco Dechlor (and treats heavy metals) which was pretty cheap but I haven't priced it in a while either but this site http://www.enkoi. com/subcat253. html has the gallon size for $27.50 and it looks pretty efficient at 2 drops per gallon which would be around 1ml per 10G.... which is near what the API and Top Fin dechlors treat. API advertises 1 drop per gallon http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 46. Many other dechlor products use anywhere from 2ml to 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water. Note: 20 drops = 1ml (most of the time) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Is it ok to use a dechlor product that takes care of heavy metals when doing PWC even if you do not have chlorine or chloramine? I have well water so I don't have to worry about chlorine/chloramine , but I may have some heavy metal issues. I have not tested my water for the metals. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35000	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals

I'll stick with API's dechloinator & heavy metal deactivator unless I find out of problems with sodium thiosulfate buildup. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Dec 29, 2008, at 11:18 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Bill, Yes, Prime will certainly work but it is a lot more expensive than the products I listed. Prime will also act as a dechlor, treat heavy metals and also treat a certain amount of ammonia but Jimmy was mainly concerned about heavy metals that might be coming up with his well water.. so this thread should interest you as well. With your one or two tanks, using a basic dechlor is probably as cost effective as you might need. I'm pretty sure Jimmy has ponds as well as tanks so finding an affordable solution to potential heavy metals is something to certainly look into. Jimmy, If you haven't picked up on it in my original reply and I forgot to highlight it, but if you can find just the Ethylene Diamine TetraAcetate and figure out the solution.... or find EDTA tetrasodium salt with the specific CAS number of 64-02-8 (read on.. I found it for you ;-)) and prepare a 10% solution, you could probably treat your water with only that since you don't really need the dechlor part, Sodium Thiosulfate. API's Tap Water Conditioner uses a 9.8% solution of this chemical.... 10% for simplicity. Here's the MSDS on it... http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/e0200.htm with the manufacturers info on the MSDS and the jtbaker.com site must be a distributor since they provide the MSDS. If you Google 'CAS 64-02-8' you will see many sites that have info on this chemical. Then click on the Shopping link http://www.google.com/products?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=CAS%2064-02-8&um=1&sa=N&t ab=wf and you'll find a couple of photo supply outlets that sell it. A pound is only $15.75 and will likely last you the rest of your life. 100gms is $7.75. http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/cart/EDTA-NA4-Tetrasodium-Salt-100g-p-233. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups..com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Would Seachem's Prime help with this? Bill --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 10:30 PM I would think it's fine to use. Basic dechlor's that treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals have been used for a long time with no apparent adverse side effects. If you haven't seen me post this before, either API's Tap Water Conditioner or Top Fin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are two of the most cost effective products that I've seen in the 8 oz. to 16 oz. sizes. There may be better bargains with other brands on larger sizes. I used to buy the powdered product for pond usage but bought a gallon of liquid once also but it was more expensive. Here's one where this 500gm package will make a gallon of dechlor and it's only $6.50... but a gallon of dechlor would last me for years and years nowadays with only aquariums... although I don't think it goes bad. http://secure. sciencecompany. com/Sodium- Thiosulfate- Pentahydrate- 500g-P6376C 670.aspx I just don't remember if Sodium Thiosulfate also treats heavy metals. Here's a snip from Kordon's site about heavy metals and it mentions "tetrasodium salts" so I'm not sure if the Sodium Thiosulfate also has these salts in it (but read on as I answer this later). (START SNIP) The scientists associated with Kordon found that the best way to control and eliminate heavy metals in the water is by the use of nontoxic forms of one or more Edetate compounds as used in agricultural chemicals, hydroponics, and medical chelation therapy. The basic chemical formula from which proper compounds are derived for aquarium and pond water conditioning is usually described chemically as Ethylene Diamine TetraAcetate. In the form of tetrasodium salts, which is used as a chelating agent to eliminate all heavy metals. The scientists associated with Kordon pioneered in developing the use of the proper Edetate compounds in aquarium and pond water conditioners many years before others followed in aquaculture and elsewhere. Kordon continues to pioneer in improvements. (END SNIP) The MSDS on API's Tap Water Dechlorinator (which also treats heavy metals) has the following: http://cms.marsfish care.com/ files/msds/ tapwaterconditio ner_2449. pdf NAME CAS RN % sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 30.2 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 9.8 So... it seems the EDTA salts are something in addition to the S.T. so disregard the powdered S.T. as it will only act as a dechlor. Another liquid brand I just remembered is Weco Dechlor (and treats heavy metals) which was pretty cheap but I haven't priced it in a while either but this site http://www.enkoi. com/subcat253. html has the gallon size for $27..50 and it looks pretty efficient at 2 drops per gallon which would be around 1ml per 10G... which is near what the API and Top Fin dechlors treat. API advertises 1 drop per gallon http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 46. Many other dechlor products use anywhere from 2ml to 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water.. Note: 20 drops = 1ml (most of the time) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Is it ok to use a dechlor product that takes care of heavy metals when doing PWC even if you do not have chlorine or chloramine? I have well water so I don't have to worry about chlorine/chloramine , but I may have some heavy metal issues. I have not tested my water for the metals. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ound-color: #eee; margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0 8px; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding: 8px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: #628c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: 0; } .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; } blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} --> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals

Well.. since you'll be doing regular PWC's, that would remove the S.T. and as long as you only dose the proper dosage for the water you are refilling the tank/pond with, then there should never be an excess dosage of S.T. I've read in many reputable places that it's OK to overdose S.T. for short term purposes so a regular dose for long term shouldn't be a problem. Who knows.. you might even be getting some chlorine coming up through your well water. No telling what's in our water aquifers down here. LOL Too bad we can't strike oil with a water well... like Grandpa Jed did while hunting for some coon! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 11:38 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals I'll stick with API's dechloinator & heavy metal deactivator unless I find out of problems with sodium thiosulfate buildup. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Dec 29, 2008, at 11:18 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: Bill, Yes, Prime will certainly work but it is a lot more expensive than the products I listed. Prime will also act as a dechlor, treat heavy metals and also treat a certain amount of ammonia but Jimmy was mainly concerned about heavy metals that might be coming up with his well water.. so this thread should interest you as well. With your one or two tanks, using a basic dechlor is probably as cost effective as you might need. I'm pretty sure Jimmy has ponds as well as tanks so finding an affordable solution to potential heavy metals is something to certainly look into. Jimmy, If you haven't picked up on it in my original reply and I forgot to highlight it, but if you can find just the Ethylene Diamine TetraAcetate and figure out the solution.... or find EDTA tetrasodium salt with the specific CAS number of 64-02-8 (read on.. I found it for you ;-)) and prepare a 10% solution, you could probably treat your water with only that since you don't really need the dechlor part, Sodium Thiosulfate. API's Tap Water Conditioner uses a 9.8% solution of this chemical.... 10% for simplicity. Here's the MSDS on it... http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/e0200.htm <http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/e0200.htm> with the manufacturers info on the MSDS and the jtbaker.com site must be a distributor since they provide the MSDS. If you Google 'CAS 64-02-8' you will see many sites that have info on this chemical. Then click on the Shopping link http://www.google.com/products?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=CAS%2064-02-8&um=1&sa=N&t <http://www.google.com/products?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=CAS%2064-02-8&um=1&sa=N& t> ab=wf and you'll find a couple of photo supply outlets that sell it. A pound is only $15.75 and will likely last you the rest of your life. 100gms is $7.75. http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/cart/EDTA-NA4-Tetrasodium-Salt-100g-p-233. <http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/cart/EDTA-NA4-Tetrasodium-Salt-100g-p-233 .> html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups..com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups..com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Would Seachem's Prime help with this? Bill --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 10:30 PM I would think it's fine to use. Basic dechlor's that treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals have been used for a long time with no apparent adverse side effects. If you haven't seen me post this before, either API's Tap Water Conditioner or Top Fin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are two of the most cost effective products that I've seen in the 8 oz. to 16 oz. sizes. There may be better bargains with other brands on larger sizes. I used to buy the powdered product for pond usage but bought a gallon of liquid once also but it was more expensive. Here's one where this 500gm package will make a gallon of dechlor and it's only $6.50... but a gallon of dechlor would last me for years and years nowadays with only aquariums... although I don't think it goes bad. http://secure. sciencecompany. com/Sodium- Thiosulfate- Pentahydrate- 500g-P6376C 670.aspx I just don't remember if Sodium Thiosulfate also treats heavy metals. Here's a snip from Kordon's site about heavy metals and it mentions "tetrasodium salts" so I'm not sure if the Sodium Thiosulfate also has these salts in it (but read on as I answer this later). (START SNIP) The scientists associated with Kordon found that the best way to control and eliminate heavy metals in the water is by the use of nontoxic forms of one or more Edetate compounds as used in agricultural chemicals, hydroponics, and medical chelation therapy. The basic chemical formula from which proper compounds are derived for aquarium and pond water conditioning is usually described chemically as Ethylene Diamine TetraAcetate. In the form of tetrasodium salts, which is used as a chelating agent to eliminate all heavy metals. The scientists associated with Kordon pioneered in developing the use of the proper Edetate compounds in aquarium and pond water conditioners many years before others followed in aquaculture and elsewhere. Kordon continues to pioneer in improvements. (END SNIP) The MSDS on API's Tap Water Dechlorinator (which also treats heavy metals) has the following: http://cms.marsfish care.com/ files/msds/ tapwaterconditio ner_2449. pdf NAME CAS RN % sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 30.2 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 9.8 So... it seems the EDTA salts are something in addition to the S.T. so disregard the powdered S.T. as it will only act as a dechlor. Another liquid brand I just remembered is Weco Dechlor (and treats heavy metals) which was pretty cheap but I haven't priced it in a while either but this site http://www.enkoi. com/subcat253. html has the gallon size for $27..50 and it looks pretty efficient at 2 drops per gallon which would be around 1ml per 10G... which is near what the API and Top Fin dechlors treat. API advertises 1 drop per gallon http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 46. Many other dechlor products use anywhere from 2ml to 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water.. Note: 20 drops = 1ml (most of the time) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Is it ok to use a dechlor product that takes care of heavy metals when doing PWC even if you do not have chlorine or chloramine? I have well water so I don't have to worry about chlorine/chloramine , but I may have some heavy metal issues. I have not tested my water for the metals. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35002	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: hard times

Check with all the newer brands like OmegaSea.net, makers of Omega One, Ocean Nutrition, Aqueon... and all the other brands listed on this page... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+7927 and this page... http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2952406&fbx=0&fbc=1&f=Ta xonomy%2FPET%2F2769126&f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F2952406&fbn=Taxonomy%7CFood+%26amp %3B+Treats&view=all Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hard times Well sense my second half lost her job and my economics are not doing well i gone on an in venture asking companies like tetra and seachem for coupons or free samples. Here is what i gotten in response Tetra is sending me free samples of flake food and water treatment. Hakiri stated that i need to register with there mailing list, and i did there going to be sending me a free example of sinking wafers. Seachem said that they only give free samples to Fish club. to send them a letter with a fish club letter head and they will send free example of all there products

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals

The same concern could be had for the EDTA salts used for chelating heavy metals but your regular PWC's will remove any unused salts and then if you only dose the amount needed for the replacement water, you would never have more than a normal dose of either the S.T. or the EDTA salts. I think the salts are the lesser of two evils and it's such a small amount that is used... we're talking a 1-2 drops per gallon and I've never seen a case of fish health issues related to normal dosing of dechlor products or even double dosing them... which is effectively what you would be doing if your water didn't need the initial dose in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Thanks Lenny. I am mainly concerned if the sodium thiosulfate will accumulate without having chlorine/chloramine to react with. I've not been able to find anything on the web about this. It is usually stated to use a dechlorinator if you are using tap water to do PWC, etc. This is to be used as a precautionary measure against heavy metals since I don't know if they are present. I don't want to cause more damage than I am preventing. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:30:50 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals I would think it's fine to use.. Basic dechlor's that treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals have been used for a long time with no apparent adverse side effects. If you haven't seen me post this before, either API's Tap Water Conditioner or Top Fin's Tap Water Dechlorinator are two of the most cost effective products that I've seen in the 8 oz. to 16 oz. sizes. There may be better bargains with other brands on larger sizes. I used to buy the powdered product for pond usage but bought a gallon of liquid once also but it was more expensive. Here's one where this 500gm package will make a gallon of dechlor and it's only $6.50... but a gallon of dechlor would last me for years and years nowadays with only aquariums... although I don't think it goes bad. http://secure. sciencecompany. com/Sodium- Thiosulfate- Pentahydrate- 500g-P6376C 670.aspx I just don't remember if Sodium Thiosulfate also treats heavy metals. Here's a snip from Kordon's site about heavy metals and it mentions "tetrasodium salts" so I'm not sure if the Sodium Thiosulfate also has these salts in it (but read on as I answer this later). (START SNIP) The scientists associated with Kordon found that the best way to control and eliminate heavy metals in the water is by the use of nontoxic forms of one or more Edetate compounds as used in agricultural chemicals, hydroponics, and medical chelation therapy. The basic chemical formula from which proper compounds are derived for aquarium and pond water conditioning is usually described chemically as Ethylene Diamine TetraAcetate. In the form of tetrasodium salts, which is used as a chelating agent to eliminate all heavy metals. The scientists associated with Kordon pioneered in developing the use of the proper Edetate compounds in aquarium and pond water conditioners many years before others followed in aquaculture and elsewhere. Kordon continues to pioneer in improvements. (END SNIP) The MSDS on API's Tap Water Dechlorinator (which also treats heavy metals) has the following: http://cms.marsfish care.com/ files/msds/ tapwaterconditio ner_2449. pdf NAME CAS RN % sodium thiosulfate 7772-98-7 30.2 EDTA tetrasodium salt 64-02-8 9.8 So... it seems the EDTA salts are something in addition to the S.T. so disregard the powdered S.T. as it will only act as a dechlor. Another liquid brand I just remembered is Weco Dechlor (and treats heavy metals) which was pretty cheap but I haven't priced it in a while either but this site http://www.enkoi. com/subcat253. html has the gallon size for $27.50 and it looks pretty efficient at 2 drops per gallon which would be around 1ml per 10G.... which is near what the API and Top Fin dechlors treat. API advertises 1 drop per gallon http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 46. Many other dechlor products use anywhere from 2ml to 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water. Note: 20 drops = 1ml (most of the time) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy Metals Is it ok to use a dechlor product that takes care of heavy metals when doing PWC even if you do not have chlorine or chloramine? I have well water so I don't have to worry about chlorine/chloramine , but I may have some heavy metal issues. I have not tested my water for the metals. Jimmy McHaney Husser, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35004	From: smar765	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Questions about additives

I'm thinking of purchase also because I saw a product review about EcoBio-Block in last October issue of Freshwater and Marine Aquarium magazine tested by David Lass. He gave a great review. Even he said after tested, he purchased several of them himself for his fishroom tanks. I hope this will help.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35005	From: harry perry	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: A new home page photo.

The leafy sea dragon. A marine animal releated to the sea horse. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35006	From: pam andress	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A new home page photo.

thats pretty. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comFrom: harryfisherman@...: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:39:24 -0800Subject: [AquaticLife] A new home page photo. The leafy sea dragon. A marine animal releated to the sea horse.Harry[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35007	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A new home page photo.

Is that thing found in the Black Sea? Maybe a result of runoff from Chernobyl? ;-) Good pic though!!! http://bss.sfsu.edu/holzman/courses/Fall99Projects/seadragon.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A new home page photo. The leafy sea dragon. A marine animal releated to the sea horse. Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35008	From: harry perry	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A new home page photo.

Actually Australia. Harry --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A new home page photo. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 10:16 PM Is that thing found in the Black Sea? Maybe a result of runoff from Chernobyl? ;-) Good pic though!!! http://bss.sfsu. edu/holzman/ courses/Fall99Pr ojects/seadragon .htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:39 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] A new home page photo. The leafy sea dragon. A marine animal releated to the sea horse. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35009	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Angelfish laying eggs

Okay so my 2 angel fish apparently decided they really like each other recently. They were fighting a bit more lately, and I figured something was going on but didn't think they would start laying eggs and fertilizing them. One (grey/black striped not sure what kind it is precisely) is laying the eggs while my Koi angelfish comes in and is apparently fertilizing them (I can see a slight cloud coming out as he hovers over the leaf that the female laid eggs on), and the two of them are definitely guarding the leaf. My question is this, how likely is it for these babies to actually survive in a semi-aggressive aquarium with a few "passive" fish as well? I could get a tank divider if it might help somehow, wonder how much it will cost at my LFS, afterall it's a 125 gallon tank, LOL. On a side note it's nice to see that they are both very happy in their environment. All of the fish have increased in size and color since I moved them into the bigger tank. I currently have a 10 gallon set up with 4 fry and an expecting female (well I think she has laid the 4 fry in there and there are more to come, but I could be wrong, LOL), could I just cut the leaf with eggs on it off of the plant and put it into the 10 gallon or would that be a bad idea? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35010	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

Lenny, Apparently, this is part of a long term cycle--the same one that caused the mini-ice age during the 1500's in Europe. (and you probably wondered why all those dudes went sailing in the Caribbean back then). I do not know who you saw, but it is a pretty safe bet to predict that, somewhere, in the nebulous future, there will be an increase in sun spot activity. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > \\Steve//, > > Didn't I recently see a TV "expert" talking about the coming increase in sun > spot or solar flare activity that could possibly cause major disruptions in > our communication's satellite network? Is this "reduced" activity that you > report just the calm before the storm? > > I guess folks will start doing their computer-Y2K preparations all over > again. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > Truth be told, most scientists who study such things have no belief in > global warming. May be part of the reason why the phrase was reworked into > "climate change" as well as being able to explain away such things as 3 foot > snowfalls with less effort. Also, note that we are entering a reduced sun > spot activity period, which always portends cooler weather. > So button up kiddies, summer's over. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > > > Yeah.. the stats are in and 2008 is the coldest year on Earth in the > past > > decade. So much for AlGore's (pronounced like Igor) so-called > "inconvenient > > truth" about global warming. Luckily AlGore also invented the > internet or > > we might not know this. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > > > it's supposed to be "warmer" than the rest of Alaska, but apparently > someone > > forgot to tell mother nature that this year ;) I think we have more > snow > > than they do up north right now, LOL. Normally our winters are rather > mild, > > maybe some ice and a few inches of snow, but I haven't seen a winter > like > > this in over 10 years. This is the beginning of winter too, this is > just > > awful, hope the rest of winter isn't like this :( > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Oohhh.. SE Alaska... the warm part.. kind of like Florida! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles > > > referenced > in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > > > > > Southeast Alaska, on an island. I'm so tired of shoveling snow, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Darlene wrote: > > > > > > > > where do you live ?? > > > > we have lots of snow too !! but now we have rain ! :((( > > > > > > > > Darlene > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35011	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Power Outages and effect on good bacteria

Since I watch FoxNews quite a bit, I just checked their site and here's an article from 2007 saying that there will be a spike in sunspot activity up to 140 spikes happening just in October, 2011... or spiking at only 90 in August, 2012. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,268723,00.html I saw a talking head more recently but referring to the same looming hyper-activity coming up in October, 2011. Here's the NOAA article about "Solar Cycle 24" which runs from March 2008 through 2019. http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/SolarCycle/SC24/index.html And yes... all of this is still on topic since this expected hyper-activity could also result in power failures due to computer failures causing the grid to malfunction. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria Lenny, Apparently, this is part of a long term cycle--the same one that caused the mini-ice age during the 1500's in Europe. (and you probably wondered why all those dudes went sailing in the Caribbean back then). I do not know who you saw, but it is a pretty safe bet to predict that, somewhere, in the nebulous future, there will be an increase in sun spot activity. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > \\Steve//, > > Didn't I recently see a TV "expert" talking about the coming increase in sun > spot or solar flare activity that could possibly cause major disruptions in > our communication's satellite network? Is this "reduced" activity that you > report just the calm before the storm? > > I guess folks will start doing their computer-Y2K preparations all over > again. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > Truth be told, most scientists who study such things have no belief in > global warming. May be part of the reason why the phrase was reworked into > "climate change" as well as being able to explain away such things as 3 foot > snowfalls with less effort. Also, note that we are entering a reduced sun > spot activity period, which always portends cooler weather. > So button up kiddies, summer's over. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > > > Yeah.. the stats are in and 2008 is the coldest year on Earth in the > past > > decade. So much for AlGore's (pronounced like Igor) so-called > "inconvenient > > truth" about global warming. Luckily AlGore also invented the > internet or > > we might not know this. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced > > in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > > > it's supposed to be "warmer" than the rest of Alaska, but apparently > someone > > forgot to tell mother nature that this year ;) I think we have more > snow > > than they do up north right now, LOL. Normally our winters are rather > mild, > > maybe some ice and a few inches of snow, but I haven't seen a winter > like > > this in over 10 years. This is the beginning of winter too, this is > just > > awful, hope the rest of winter isn't like this :( > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Oohhh.. SE Alaska... the warm part.. kind of like Florida! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles > > > referenced > in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Power Outages and effect on good bacteria > > > > > > Southeast Alaska, on an island. I'm so tired of shoveling snow, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Darlene wrote: > > > > > > > > where do you live ?? > > > > we have lots of snow too !! but now we have rain ! :((( > > > > > > > > Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35012	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

Bill, I cannot help you much here. I just usually paint the tanks I need a background for. I've tried some other methods, but painting is cheap, easy, and stays in place without the glue of the universe Enid refers to. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Gwydryn@... > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally! > > > In a message dated 12/29/2008 6:51:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, > warrenprint@... writes: > > Any thoughts or comic commentary (Yo, \\Steve//) is most welcomed, > I really need help with this one gang. > Bill > > > > It's called clear duct tape! It's the stuff that hold the universe together, > the Force, if you will! Attach it with it to the back of the tank. > Enid > **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, > Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0 0000025) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35013	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish laying eggs

I forgot to say that the 10 gallon with fry is guppies, with one female that's been popping out babies. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > Okay so my 2 angel fish apparently decided they really like each other > recently. They were fighting a bit more lately, and I figured something > was going on but didn't think they would start laying eggs and > fertilizing them. One (grey/black striped not sure what kind it is > precisely) is laying the eggs while my Koi angelfish comes in and is > apparently fertilizing them (I can see a slight cloud coming out as he > hovers over the leaf that the female laid eggs on), and the two of them > are definitely guarding the leaf. My question is this, how likely is it > for these babies to actually survive in a semi-aggressive aquarium with > a few "passive" fish as well? I could get a tank divider if it might > help somehow, wonder how much it will cost at my LFS, afterall it's a > 125 gallon tank, LOL. On a side note it's nice to see that they are both > very happy in their environment. All of the fish have increased in size > and color since I moved them into the bigger tank. > I currently have a 10 gallon set up with 4 fry and an expecting female > (well I think she has laid the 4 fry in there and there are more to > come, but I could be wrong, LOL), could I just cut the leaf with eggs on > it off of the plant and put it into the 10 gallon or would that be a bad > idea? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35014	From: Maxmillionmaxcat@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

What type(s) of paint can you use on glass??? Barbara In a message dated 12/30/2008 11:56:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, steve@... writes: Bill, I cannot help you much here. I just usually paint the tanks I need a background for. I've tried some other methods, but painting is cheap, easy, and stays in place without the glue of the universe Enid refers to. \\Steve// **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35015	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: hard times

thank you very much Lenny I will look into the other products --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] hard times To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 1:46 PM Check with all the newer brands like OmegaSea.net, makers of Omega One, Ocean Nutrition, Aqueon... and all the other brands listed on this page... http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/pet_ supplies. cfm?c=3578+ 7927 and this page... http://www.petsmart .com/family/ index.jsp? categoryId= 2952406&fbx= 0&fbc=1&f= Ta xonomy%2FPET% 2F2769126& f=Taxonomy% 2FPET%2F2952406& fbn=Taxonomy% 7CFood+%26amp %3B+Treats&view= all Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:37 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] hard times Well sense my second half lost her job and my economics are not doing well i gone on an in venture asking companies like tetra and seachem for coupons or free samples. Here is what i gotten in response Tetra is sending me free samples of flake food and water treatment. Hakiri stated that i need to register with there mailing list, and i did there going to be sending me a free example of sinking wafers. Seachem said that they only give free samples to Fish club. to send them a letter with a fish club letter head and they will send free example of all there products [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35016	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

It seems you have not done any painting around windows. Pretty much any paint can be used, though I probably would not be tempted to use water colors <g>, or a paint that can be used that will be easy to remove--I forget what it was that my other half used before we replaced the door so the dogs could not look through the sidelite we used to have. She was able to wash it right off. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Maxmillionmaxcat@... > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:09 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally! > > What type(s) of paint can you use on glass??? > Barbara > > > In a message dated 12/30/2008 11:56:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > steve@... writes: > > Bill, > > I cannot help you much here. I just usually paint the tanks I need a > background for. I've tried some other methods, but painting is cheap, > easy, and stays in place without the glue of the universe Enid refers > to. > > \\Steve// > > > **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, > Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35017	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: saw my dream aqaurium

check out craiglist south Florida on the general sales section NOOOOOO bad bad idea !!!! LOLOL then i will start planning trips way down south ,............ by car it is 3-4 days and i would have to bring my car to get it back up here !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35018	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: saw my dream aqaurium

lol that far huh... --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:51 AM check out craiglist south Florida on the general sales section NOOOOOO bad bad idea !!!! LOLOL then i will start planning trips way down south ,........... . by car it is 3-4 days and i would have to bring my car to get it back up here !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35019	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium

yup i am way up here in cold Canada !! Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium lol that far huh... --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:51 AM check out craiglist south Florida on the general sales section NOOOOOO bad bad idea !!!! LOLOL then i will start planning trips way down south ,........... . by car it is 3-4 days and i would have to bring my car to get it back up here !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35020	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium

there lots lots of Canadians down here rite now --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@...> Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 8:06 AM yup i am way up here in cold Canada !! Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium lol that far huh... --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:51 AM check out craiglist south Florida on the general sales section NOOOOOO bad bad idea !!!! LOLOL then i will start planning trips way down south ,........... . by car it is 3-4 days and i would have to bring my car to get it back up here !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35021	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium

i know ..... we all want to get away from the cold !!!!! Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:14 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium there lots lots of Canadians down here rite now --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@...> Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 8:06 AM yup i am way up here in cold Canada !! Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium lol that far huh... --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:51 AM check out craiglist south Florida on the general sales section NOOOOOO bad bad idea !!!! LOLOL then i will start planning trips way down south ,........... . by car it is 3-4 days and i would have to bring my car to get it back up here !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35022	From: deborahgd14	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: A new home page photo.

VERY neat looking!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Actually Australia. > > Harry > > --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A new home page photo. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 10:16 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that thing found in the Black Sea? Maybe a result of runoff from > > Chernobyl? ;-) > > > > Good pic though!!! > > > > http://bss.sfsu. edu/holzman/ courses/Fall99Pr ojects/seadragon .htm > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of harry perry > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] A new home page photo. > > > > The leafy sea dragon. A marine animal releated to the sea horse. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35023	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium

got to love it when its 80 f in mid winter --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@...> Subject: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 8:24 AM i know ..... we all want to get away from the cold !!!!! Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:14 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium there lots lots of Canadians down here rite now --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 8:06 AM yup i am way up here in cold Canada !! Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium lol that far huh... --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:51 AM check out craiglist south Florida on the general sales section NOOOOOO bad bad idea !!!! LOLOL then i will start planning trips way down south ,........... . by car it is 3-4 days and i would have to bring my car to get it back up here !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35024	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium

i can always send some snow your way, it would be my pleasure !!! LOLOL since i can't afford to go there right now :) Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium got to love it when its 80 f in mid winter --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@...> Subject: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 8:24 AM i know ..... we all want to get away from the cold !!!!! Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:14 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium there lots lots of Canadians down here rite now --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 8:06 AM yup i am way up here in cold Canada !! Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium lol that far huh... --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:51 AM check out craiglist south Florida on the general sales section NOOOOOO bad bad idea !!!! LOLOL then i will start planning trips way down south ,........... . by car it is 3-4 days and i would have to bring my car to get it back up here !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35025	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium

i was just bragging don't lisen to me..lol..sure make sure there in a breather bag?..lol --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@...> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@...> Subject: Fw: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 9:54 AM i can always send some snow your way, it would be my pleasure !!! LOLOL since i can't afford to go there right now :) Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium got to love it when its 80 f in mid winter --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> Subject: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 8:24 AM i know ..... we all want to get away from the cold !!!!! Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:14 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium there lots lots of Canadians down here rite now --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 8:06 AM yup i am way up here in cold Canada !! Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: biG poppa To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium lol that far huh... --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> wrote: From: Darlene <amazonbirds@ videotron. ca> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:51 AM check out craiglist south Florida on the general sales section NOOOOOO bad bad idea !!!! LOLOL then i will start planning trips way down south ,........... . by car it is 3-4 days and i would have to bring my car to get it back up here !! Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35026	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: hard times

I just started a new welding business in July. Talk about lying awake at night. Since then I have been looking in to companies who make off brands for big box stores. I havent bought a Marineland or Eheim since I found out about this. Petco brand filters are made by Penn Plax. I have 4 Petco PF60's on both my 55 gallon tanks. They are quiet and have been running for 5 months now no leaks and are very powerful. I also bought TopFin filters. 2 for my 35 gallon and 2 for my 150 gallon (in tandem with an Eheim wet/dry of course). both these filters were half price and work great with no problems. Even if they did break they are cheap enough to replace if warranty is expired. Also for my Whisper filters I use Topfin filters which are made by Tetra anyway. IT SAYS SO RIGHT ON THE FILTER LOL. they didnt even try to hide it. That cuts down on price too. AquaTech Filters at WalMart are made by MarineLand (again says so right on the filter housing!!!) so thats where I buy my filterpads for my Emporer filters. Even Petco wants $30 for 3 filters for a 400B. I couldnt afford that. TopFin declor which also removes chloramines is half the price of API declor and instead of 5ml per ten gallon you only use 1ml per ten gallon. This is how Ive been cutting costs. I dont know if I would be able to get rid of my fish. Even if it means living in my car with buckets filled with fish lol. I would like to know about food though there is a HUGE difference between TopFin Shrimp Pellets and OSI Pellets. I still use Tetra flakes even though I was advised against it by my LFS. What does he sell..OSI. Any thought on substitute food? AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > Well sense my second half lost her job and my economics are not doing > well i gone on an in venture asking companies like tetra and seachem > for coupons or free samples. > > Here is what i gotten in response > > Tetra is sending me free samples of flake food and water treatment. > > Hakiri stated that i need to register with there mailing list, and i > did there going to be sending me a free example of sinking wafers. > > Seachem said that they only give free samples to Fish club. to send > them a letter with a fish club letter head and they will send free > example of all there products >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35027	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

Water paints work fine... especially if you might want to change it. If you have kids or grand kids, you could even have them paint the background... or have them paint backgrounds on white poster board and then tape the poster board to the back of the tank... gives you more room on your fridge and you can change it as needed. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxmillionmaxcat@... Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally! What type(s) of paint can you use on glass??? Barbara In a message dated 12/30/2008 11:56:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> writes: Bill, I cannot help you much here. I just usually paint the tanks I need a background for. I've tried some other methods, but painting is cheap, easy, and stays in place without the glue of the universe Enid refers to. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35028	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Tube clamps.....

Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" tubing and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of those small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off getting small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber bands... One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on your air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to suck water out of the tank..... Maybe I worry to much about all these connections.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35029	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Bacteria Question

While I was trolling the Information Super Highway (rember that one?) for off brand products, I came across alot of forums where people where complaining about bacteria. More specifically they where getting rid of filters because theirs didnt have a "bio-sponge, bio-cartridge, bio- wheel, insert bio name here". Doesn't bacteria live in all areas of the tank/ornaments/plants and is abundant in the gravel? When I was a kid, I never had bio-*****. Our tanks where fine. I am not a profesional by any means, even a pro hobbyist for that matter but why would you get rid of a perfectly good filter to have one that has a spinning wheel. Yes I do have 2 Marinelands with bio wheels but I bought them both used from craigslist. I still cant pass up a deal! I dont run the bio wheels though. I just let them float around the tank. Wouldnt it be better to run 2 regular HOBs on a tank and switch out 1 cartridge every other time if the filters hold all the bacteria goodness?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35030	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: hard times

there are ways you can make your own food..here are some examples http://www.melevsreef.com/food.html http://www.aquacon.com/fishfood.htm http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm Sense i dont know what type of fish you have i gave u a couple --- On Wed, 12/31/08, turbocoupe76 <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: From: turbocoupe76 <turbocoupe76@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hard times To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 10:07 AM I just started a new welding business in July. Talk about lying awake at night. Since then I have been looking in to companies who make off brands for big box stores. I havent bought a Marineland or Eheim since I found out about this. Petco brand filters are made by Penn Plax. I have 4 Petco PF60's on both my 55 gallon tanks. They are quiet and have been running for 5 months now no leaks and are very powerful. I also bought TopFin filters. 2 for my 35 gallon and 2 for my 150 gallon (in tandem with an Eheim wet/dry of course). both these filters were half price and work great with no problems. Even if they did break they are cheap enough to replace if warranty is expired. Also for my Whisper filters I use Topfin filters which are made by Tetra anyway. IT SAYS SO RIGHT ON THE FILTER LOL. they didnt even try to hide it. That cuts down on price too. AquaTech Filters at WalMart are made by MarineLand (again says so right on the filter housing!!!) so thats where I buy my filterpads for my Emporer filters. Even Petco wants $30 for 3 filters for a 400B. I couldnt afford that. TopFin declor which also removes chloramines is half the price of API declor and instead of 5ml per ten gallon you only use 1ml per ten gallon. This is how Ive been cutting costs. I dont know if I would be able to get rid of my fish. Even if it means living in my car with buckets filled with fish lol. I would like to know about food though there is a HUGE difference between TopFin Shrimp Pellets and OSI Pellets. I still use Tetra flakes even though I was advised against it by my LFS. What does he sell..OSI. Any thought on substitute food? AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "greychildren" <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > Well sense my second half lost her job and my economics are not doing > well i gone on an in venture asking companies like tetra and seachem > for coupons or free samples. > > Here is what i gotten in response > > Tetra is sending me free samples of flake food and water treatment. > > Hakiri stated that i need to register with there mailing list, and i > did there going to be sending me a free example of sinking wafers. > > Seachem said that they only give free samples to Fish club. to send > them a letter with a fish club letter head and they will send free > example of all there products > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35031	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

I ruined too many air pumps with check valves. I should say the pumps dont seem to last as long and you have to rebuild them more ofter than with out. I just place mine above the aquarium. one pump is in another room with 10 ft of tubing between it. Placing it above the tank would have put it in full view. My wife barely tolerates my OCD fish hobby as is :) AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" tubing > and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of those > small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off getting > small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber > bands... > One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on your > air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to suck > water out of the tank..... > Maybe I worry to much about all these connections.. > > Thanks, > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35032	From: biG poppa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

theres a small return valve you can buy at any lfs this will prevent water returning in your water air pump. --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> wrote: From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Tube clamps..... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 10:17 AM Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" tubing and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of those small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off getting small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber bands... One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on your air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to suck water out of the tank..... Maybe I worry to much about all these connections. . Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35033	From: bill1433	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Hey Len? Its about plants

Hi Len, � Posting here rather than direct in case someone else needs the help on the same issue.� I could have sworn that you gave a link for Plant Geek to search for plants by using a pH factor?????????????� I went all over their site and yes, registered for the forum, and still cannot find where you search for plants by pH. Matter of fact they don�t exactly list their plants by a pH factor do they?� Instead they use words like moderate. � I gave them my water parameters and got an answer back describing how to rise my current pH!� You know, cuddle bones, coral, baking soda, the whole 9 yards.� NOT! � No, were not going to start that again.� Am I in the right church but wrong pew?� One of your famous direct links please! � Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35034	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

Might I offer a Martha Stewrat suggestion? Yes, that's spelled correctly - it's a Ratlist thing. You can hide a plethora of ugly stuff under fancy boxes with the bottoms cut out. If you paint the electrical cords to match the wall, you can have the pump on a wall shelf right above the tank mixed in with a collection of attractive knick knacks. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> I ruined too many air pumps with check valves. I should say the pumps dont seem to last as long and you have to rebuild them more ofter than with out. I just place mine above the aquarium. one pump is in another room with 10 ft of tubing between it. Placing it above the tank would have put it in full view. My wife barely tolerates my OCD fish hobby as is :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35035	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

visit your local pep boys autozone or Napa stores for trick hose clamps. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" tubing > and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of those > small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off getting > small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber > bands... > One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on your > air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to suck > water out of the tank..... > Maybe I worry to much about all these connections.. > > Thanks, > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35036	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

Good idea, but, I want to keep then out of view....I think the check valves is the way to go.. Can't you just "loop" the air hose behing the tank to prevent any problems? Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > I ruined too many air pumps with check valves. I should say the pumps > dont seem to last as long and you have to rebuild them more ofter > than with out. I just place mine above the aquarium. one pump is in > another room with 10 ft of tubing between it. Placing it above the > tank would have put it in full view. My wife barely tolerates my OCD > fish hobby as is :) > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@> wrote: > > > > Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" > tubing > > and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of > those > > small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off > getting > > small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber > > bands... > > One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on > your > > air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to > suck > > water out of the tank..... > > Maybe I worry to much about all these connections.. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35037	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

Like I said in the other post, can't you just loop the air hose behind the tank to prevent this? If not I will go wht the check valve.. Thanks, Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, biG poppa <greychildren@...> wrote: > > theres a small return valve you can buy at any lfs this will prevent water returning in your water air pump. > > --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> wrote: > From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tube clamps..... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 10:17 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" tubing > > and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of those > > small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off getting > > small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber > > bands... > > One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on your > > air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to suck > > water out of the tank..... > > Maybe I worry to much about all these connections. . > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35038	From: William	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question

Be bio wheels work by having air run across them (when they are spinning) so that they do not use the oxygen in the water (bacteria need oxygen too). If you just let the bio wheels float in the tank is is no better than the gravel in the bottom of the tank. Using bio wheels in the filter like they are made to do will help with the bacteria getting enough oxygen without taking it away from the fish in the tank. I run a couple of bio wheels and do not have to change them out because they are constantly growing the bacteria on them. You are right in changing out one cartridge at a time so that yo only loose the bacteria on one cartridge at a time. When yo replace the cartridge the bacteria will start to grow n it fairly fast. Bacteria can double in number every day or so (under good conditions). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > While I was trolling the Information Super Highway (rember that one?) > for off brand products, I came across alot of forums where people where > complaining about bacteria. More specifically they where getting rid of > filters because theirs didnt have a "bio-sponge, bio-cartridge, bio- > wheel, insert bio name here". > Doesn't bacteria live in all areas of the tank/ornaments/plants and is > abundant in the gravel? When I was a kid, I never had bio-*****. Our > tanks where fine. > I am not a profesional by any means, even a pro hobbyist for that matter > but why would you get rid of a perfectly good filter to have one that > has a spinning wheel. > Yes I do have 2 Marinelands with bio wheels but I bought them both used > from craigslist. I still cant pass up a deal! I dont run the bio wheels > though. I just let them float around the tank. > Wouldnt it be better to run 2 regular HOBs on a tank and switch out 1 > cartridge every other time if the filters hold all the bacteria > goodness? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35039	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

you can use hose clamps, though they are a bit difficult to get on the filter part, i would probably get the replacement rubber "bands", they hold pretty tight. there is something called a check valve; it should be in any aquarium store and it will prevent water from siphoning back into the air pump in the event of a power interruption. It will prevent the air puimp being ruined and maybe water all over the floor too, definitely something to think about. ----- Original Message ----- From: "biG poppa" <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 10:50:01 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tube clamps..... theres a small return valve you can buy at any lfs this will prevent water returning in your water air pump. --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Jim Pat. < Jpateson@... > wrote: From: Jim Pat. < Jpateson@... > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tube clamps..... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 10:17 AM Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" tubing and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of those small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off getting small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber bands... One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on your air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to suck water out of the tank..... Maybe I worry to much about all these connections. . Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35040	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

Without a valve to prevent backups you can loop the tubing as high or low as you want but, if the pump end of the tubing isn't higher than the water level of the tank, the water will drain into the pump as soon as it stops working. That's why water bridges work. I'm glad you raised this question, because I just got a free air pump with the aquarium I bought off Craigslist. I probably wouldn't have thought twice about setting on the stand next to the aquarium, you made me stop and think. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@...> Like I said in the other post, can't you just loop the air hose behind the tank to prevent this? If not I will go wht the check valve.. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, biG poppa <greychildren@...> wrote: > > theres a small return valve you can buy at any lfs this will prevent water returning in your water air pump. > > --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on your > air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to suck > water out of the tank.....

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35041	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Fw: [AquaticLife] Re: saw my dream aqaurium

the amount of snow i want to send you won't fit in a breather bag LOLOL i was just bragging don't listen to me..lol..sure make sure there in a breather bag?..lol i can always send some snow your way, it would be my pleasure !!! LOLOL since i can't afford to go there right now :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35042	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: new tank

ok the new tank just got here, it is smaller, i would presume 18 - 20 gallons measures 24" x 12" x 16" i can use it as a hospital tank or build a bridge so they will have more room to swim around have to wait for it to warm up to room temp then i can clean it Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35043	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question

Yes, the microscopic nitrifying bacteria live on all surface areas where there is a supply of oxygenated water. However, since all of the tank's water flows through the filter system several times an hour, the overwhelming majority of the nitrifying bacteria will reside there since that's where all the food is passing by on a constant basis. If you have a sponge or polyfloss pad or polyfill or whatever and water is flowing through it, then there will be nitrifying bacteria growing on the surface areas of that filter media. Other biological filtration would only be lagniappe or redundancy. In fact, when someone buys a new filter system that comes with at least a single cartridge, like on a small Whisper 10, that is plenty enough filter media to hold all the nitrifying bacteria needed for a properly stocked 10G tank. As long as you rinse/swoosh/squeeze the filter cartridge/media in removed tank water on a weekly basis, to remove the majority of the detritus, that media will stay cycled and can be reused over and over and over for years and years. If someone does not want to do filter cleaning, then they should have a filter system that has other means of biological filtration like a Bio-Wheel, BioMax, etc., so they are not completely trashing their biological filtration every time they change out their filter cartridge on a small filter system like a Whisper 10 or other single cartridge systems. While the bio-wheels will harbor some nitrifying bacteria while just floating around in your tank, they would be home for thousands or millions of times more nitrifying bacteria if they were spinning in the outflow of the filters where they would be getting a constant supply of heavily oxygenated water flowing through/over the bio-wheel. That is the true purpose of why Marineland had Dr. Tim Hovanec invent the Bio-Wheel... so they could then, in good conscience, recommend changing out the filter cartridge on a regular basis without harming the fish. By having the Bio-Wheel as the primary home for the majority of the nitrifying bacteria, then trashing the cartridge would not harm the biological filtration very much.... although there is absolutely NO reason to ever trash one of their filter cartridges. They last for years and years and can even be modified to remove the carbon and add more filter media in that part of the cartridge.... see my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200 Bio-Wheel" for photos of how I modified mine. Yes, running two HOB's and only doing filter maintenance on one filter at a time is the best way but it's still better to just do maintenance on the filter rather than trashing it for a new one. With two HOB's, trashing one cartridge could mean you are trashing around 50% of your biological filtration meaning your tank will go into a mini-cycle that would mean potentially elevated ammonia/nitrite levels for a up to a couple of days every time you do this. Start testing your water for ammonia and nitrite after you trash one of your cartridges to see if your tank is going into a mini-cycle or not. The bioload and overall ecology of the tank will have an effect on this potential mini-cycle as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bacteria Question While I was trolling the Information Super Highway (rember that one?) for off brand products, I came across alot of forums where people where complaining about bacteria. More specifically they where getting rid of filters because theirs didnt have a "bio-sponge, bio-cartridge, bio- wheel, insert bio name here". Doesn't bacteria live in all areas of the tank/ornaments/plants and is abundant in the gravel? When I was a kid, I never had bio-*****. Our tanks where fine. I am not a profesional by any means, even a pro hobbyist for that matter but why would you get rid of a perfectly good filter to have one that has a spinning wheel. Yes I do have 2 Marinelands with bio wheels but I bought them both used from craigslist. I still cant pass up a deal! I dont run the bio wheels though. I just let them float around the tank. Wouldnt it be better to run 2 regular HOBs on a tank and switch out 1 cartridge every other time if the filters hold all the bacteria goodness?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35044	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

No matter how many loops you place in the airline tubing as long as the air pump is below the fish tank it will eventually siphon water back into itself when their is a power outage -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > Good idea, but, I want to keep then out of view....I think the check > valves is the way to go.. > Can't you just "loop" the air hose behing the tank to prevent any > problems? > > Jim > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@> > wrote: > > > > I ruined too many air pumps with check valves. I should say the > pumps > > dont seem to last as long and you have to rebuild them more ofter > > than with out. I just place mine above the aquarium. one pump is in > > another room with 10 ft of tubing between it. Placing it above the > > tank would have put it in full view. My wife barely tolerates my > OCD > > fish hobby as is :) > > > > > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@> wrote: > > > > > > Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" > > tubing > > > and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of > > those > > > small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off > > getting > > > small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber > > > bands... > > > One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" > on > > your > > > air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to > > suck > > > water out of the tank..... > > > Maybe I worry to much about all these connections.. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jim > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Len? Its about plants

I don't think there's a search for pH... although that new database site we've been looking at might have a search for plants also.. I haven't really checked for that yet. I checked the plantgeek.net forums for a search on "low pH plants" and I saw your new thread. Hopefully, you'll get more answers. Something I'm thinking is that the plants found in a South American soft water biotope should work for you also. Read over the following for plant ideas. http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm - each section about a specific biotope starts off with the pH range for that biotope. Scrolling down the page and I see the S.E. Asian Blackwater Pool has water that sounds a lot like yours ("...and few, if any, mineral sources, the water is acidic and very soft..."). There are three plant categories listed in that section. These next two S.American biotopes also have your kind of water.. once again another blackwater biotope... http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_rio_sucasari.htm and http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_amazon_blackwater.htm but at least you have an idea of many types of plants that do well in your low pH water. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/bio-type.html http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/amazonbiotope/amazon.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey Len? Its about plants Hi Len,   Posting here rather than direct in case someone else needs the help on the same issue.  I could have sworn that you gave a link for Plant Geek to search for plants by using a pH factor?????????????  I went all over their site and yes, registered for the forum, and still cannot find where you search for plants by pH. Matter of fact they don¢t exactly list their plants by a pH factor do they?  Instead they use words like moderate.   I gave them my water parameters and got an answer back describing how to rise my current pH!  You know, cuddle bones, coral, baking soda, the whole 9 yards.  NOT!   No, were not going to start that again.  Am I in the right church but wrong pew?  One of your famous direct links please!   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35046	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

On my Rena Filstar canisters, they just use the nylon zip ties that can also be released and reused but the disposable types can probably be used also. All you need is a little pressure on the hose, below one of the ribs, to make sure the hose doesn't pull off when doing filter maintenance. There's not much pressure on the system as long as you don't hold your finger over the water output going into your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tube clamps..... Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" tubing and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of those small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off getting small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber bands... One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on your air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to suck water out of the tank..... Maybe I worry to much about all these connections.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35047	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

While leaving a drip loop in electrical cords is good so any leaks drip down to the floor rather than running into your electrical outlet or power strip, with the air pump hosing, if the pump fails or there's a power outage, there could be a siphon effect where the water starts siphoning up the tube and then through the hose and into the pump, if it's below water level, and then onto the floor. If this is not caught in time, it could drain a tank. The anti-siphon check valves are just one way valves put inline so the air can only flow one way, towards the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tube clamps..... Like I said in the other post, can't you just loop the air hose behind the tank to prevent this? If not I will go wht the check valve.. Thanks, Jim --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , biG poppa <greychildren@...> wrote: > > theres a small return valve you can buy at any lfs this will prevent water returning in your water air pump. > > --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> wrote: > From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tube clamps..... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 10:17 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" tubing > > and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of those > > small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off getting > > small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber > > bands... > > One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on your > > air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to suck > > water out of the tank..... > > Maybe I worry to much about all these connections. . > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35048	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: new tank

Those measurements add up to 19.94 gallons. What do you mean by smaller? Shorter in height? What are the dimensions of your current tank? I would use it to increase the water volume of your current tank.. either with the bridge or with the U-tubes. Either would increase the water volume. If you want a separate H-tank or Q-tank, which is certainly recommended, get either a 10G tank or just a clear sterilite storage box which you could put away when not needed... or use it to hold all your non-chemical aquarium stuff. Considering the cost of building a bridge out of the poly tubing, I would save that money towards the much larger tank you will eventually need. Two 20G tanks will be OK for now but if your fish aren't permanently stunted.. you do have goldfish, right?... they will outgrow the space and water volume provided by the 20G's. If you are going to do the DIY 4" or 5" square bridge out of a sheet of plexiglass, then that would be low enough cost to do for now and you could reuse the bridge on two 55G tanks or something like that. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank ok the new tank just got here, it is smaller, i would presume 18 - 20 gallons measures 24" x 12" x 16" i can use it as a hospital tank or build a bridge so they will have more room to swim around have to wait for it to warm up to room temp then i can clean it Darlene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35049	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question

ok point taken ill put the bio wheels pack on. :) But any other filter ive seen just has the bio media that sits in front of the filter cartridge. they are constantly submerged. Thats what I mean. Any type of filter made now has some sort of bio sponge that is seperate from the filter cartridge. But alot of people want bio wheels and such because of what it says on the box (instantly cleans tank, Now with more bacteria surface area. I have not seen results yet on my tanks where I would go out and buy a new filter because it has bio wheels. I usually wont replace a cartidge or pad unless it rips while im cleaning it. I just scrub them in the bucket with my hands when im doing PWC. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, the microscopic nitrifying bacteria live on all surface areas where > there is a supply of oxygenated water. However, since all of the tank's > water flows through the filter system several times an hour, the > overwhelming majority of the nitrifying bacteria will reside there since > that's where all the food is passing by on a constant basis. If you have a > sponge or polyfloss pad or polyfill or whatever and water is flowing through > it, then there will be nitrifying bacteria growing on the surface areas of > that filter media. Other biological filtration would only be lagniappe or > redundancy. > > In fact, when someone buys a new filter system that comes with at least a > single cartridge, like on a small Whisper 10, that is plenty enough filter > media to hold all the nitrifying bacteria needed for a properly stocked 10G > tank. As long as you rinse/swoosh/squeeze the filter cartridge/media in > removed tank water on a weekly basis, to remove the majority of the > detritus, that media will stay cycled and can be reused over and over and > over for years and years. > > If someone does not want to do filter cleaning, then they should have a > filter system that has other means of biological filtration like a > Bio-Wheel, BioMax, etc., so they are not completely trashing their > biological filtration every time they change out their filter cartridge on a > small filter system like a Whisper 10 or other single cartridge systems. > > While the bio-wheels will harbor some nitrifying bacteria while just > floating around in your tank, they would be home for thousands or millions > of times more nitrifying bacteria if they were spinning in the outflow of > the filters where they would be getting a constant supply of heavily > oxygenated water flowing through/over the bio-wheel. That is the true > purpose of why Marineland had Dr. Tim Hovanec invent the Bio- Wheel... so > they could then, in good conscience, recommend changing out the filter > cartridge on a regular basis without harming the fish. By having the > Bio-Wheel as the primary home for the majority of the nitrifying bacteria, > then trashing the cartridge would not harm the biological filtration very > much.... although there is absolutely NO reason to ever trash one of their > filter cartridges. They last for years and years and can even be modified > to remove the carbon and add more filter media in that part of the > cartridge.... see my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200 > Bio-Wheel" for photos of how I modified mine. > > Yes, running two HOB's and only doing filter maintenance on one filter at a > time is the best way but it's still better to just do maintenance on the > filter rather than trashing it for a new one. With two HOB's, trashing one > cartridge could mean you are trashing around 50% of your biological > filtration meaning your tank will go into a mini-cycle that would mean > potentially elevated ammonia/nitrite levels for a up to a couple of days > every time you do this. Start testing your water for ammonia and nitrite > after you trash one of your cartridges to see if your tank is going into a > mini-cycle or not. The bioload and overall ecology of the tank will have an > effect on this potential mini-cycle as well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bacteria Question > > While I was trolling the Information Super Highway (rember that one?) for > off brand products, I came across alot of forums where people where > complaining about bacteria. More specifically they where getting rid of > filters because theirs didnt have a "bio-sponge, bio-cartridge, bio- wheel, > insert bio name here". > Doesn't bacteria live in all areas of the tank/ornaments/plants and is > abundant in the gravel? When I was a kid, I never had bio-*****. Our tanks > where fine. > I am not a profesional by any means, even a pro hobbyist for that matter but > why would you get rid of a perfectly good filter to have one that has a > spinning wheel. > Yes I do have 2 Marinelands with bio wheels but I bought them both used from > craigslist. I still cant pass up a deal! I dont run the bio wheels though. I > just let them float around the tank. > Wouldnt it be better to run 2 regular HOBs on a tank and switch out 1 > cartridge every other time if the filters hold all the bacteria goodness? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35050	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: ICH

have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am treating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot betterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store turns water blue not sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is almost gone now.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one has the ick virus(?) on it. and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long past no signs of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a gold fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what was it? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35051	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question

Yes, the other biomedia that is submerged in the water flow of the filter still works better than something sitting stagnant in the tank but the Bio-Wheels, being a wet-dry filter (so it has a lot of surface area exposed to the air also), works even better according to the peer-reviewed studies that Dr. Tim did back when he invented the Bio-Wheel. Also, biomedia used as the last stage of filtration, whether it's a sponge, floss pad, biomax or other ceramic type granules, etc., will be getting the water that already has some ammonia/nitrites in it from the previous layers of filtration and the nitrifying bacteria that live in/on those layers so it's getting nice clean (not the actual detritus that partially blocks the other layers) water with the food (ammonia/nitrite) that the nitrifying bacteria need to really grow large colonies. As the last layer, it's far less likely to get clogged up with detritus which would block oxygen rich water from reaching all the microscopic cracks and crevices in the specialized filter media or the less specialized kind. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bacteria Question ok point taken ill put the bio wheels pack on. :) But any other filter ive seen just has the bio media that sits in front of the filter cartridge. they are constantly submerged. Thats what I mean. Any type of filter made now has some sort of bio sponge that is seperate from the filter cartridge. But alot of people want bio wheels and such because of what it says on the box (instantly cleans tank, Now with more bacteria surface area. I have not seen results yet on my tanks where I would go out and buy a new filter because it has bio wheels. I usually wont replace a cartidge or pad unless it rips while im cleaning it. I just scrub them in the bucket with my hands when im doing PWC. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, the microscopic nitrifying bacteria live on all surface areas where > there is a supply of oxygenated water. However, since all of the tank's > water flows through the filter system several times an hour, the > overwhelming majority of the nitrifying bacteria will reside there since > that's where all the food is passing by on a constant basis. If you have a > sponge or polyfloss pad or polyfill or whatever and water is flowing through > it, then there will be nitrifying bacteria growing on the surface areas of > that filter media. Other biological filtration would only be lagniappe or > redundancy. > > In fact, when someone buys a new filter system that comes with at least a > single cartridge, like on a small Whisper 10, that is plenty enough filter > media to hold all the nitrifying bacteria needed for a properly stocked 10G > tank. As long as you rinse/swoosh/squeeze the filter cartridge/media in > removed tank water on a weekly basis, to remove the majority of the > detritus, that media will stay cycled and can be reused over and over and > over for years and years. > > If someone does not want to do filter cleaning, then they should have a > filter system that has other means of biological filtration like a > Bio-Wheel, BioMax, etc., so they are not completely trashing their > biological filtration every time they change out their filter cartridge on a > small filter system like a Whisper 10 or other single cartridge systems. > > While the bio-wheels will harbor some nitrifying bacteria while just > floating around in your tank, they would be home for thousands or millions > of times more nitrifying bacteria if they were spinning in the outflow of > the filters where they would be getting a constant supply of heavily > oxygenated water flowing through/over the bio-wheel. That is the true > purpose of why Marineland had Dr. Tim Hovanec invent the Bio- Wheel... so > they could then, in good conscience, recommend changing out the filter > cartridge on a regular basis without harming the fish. By having the > Bio-Wheel as the primary home for the majority of the nitrifying bacteria, > then trashing the cartridge would not harm the biological filtration very > much.... although there is absolutely NO reason to ever trash one of their > filter cartridges. They last for years and years and can even be modified > to remove the carbon and add more filter media in that part of the > cartridge.... see my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200 > Bio-Wheel" for photos of how I modified mine. > > Yes, running two HOB's and only doing filter maintenance on one filter at a > time is the best way but it's still better to just do maintenance on the > filter rather than trashing it for a new one. With two HOB's, trashing one > cartridge could mean you are trashing around 50% of your biological > filtration meaning your tank will go into a mini-cycle that would mean > potentially elevated ammonia/nitrite levels for a up to a couple of days > every time you do this. Start testing your water for ammonia and nitrite > after you trash one of your cartridges to see if your tank is going into a > mini-cycle or not. The bioload and overall ecology of the tank will have an > effect on this potential mini-cycle as well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bacteria Question > > While I was trolling the Information Super Highway (rember that one?) for > off brand products, I came across alot of forums where people where > complaining about bacteria. More specifically they where getting rid of > filters because theirs didnt have a "bio-sponge, bio-cartridge, bio- wheel, > insert bio name here". > Doesn't bacteria live in all areas of the tank/ornaments/plants and is > abundant in the gravel? When I was a kid, I never had bio-*****. Our tanks > where fine. > I am not a profesional by any means, even a pro hobbyist for that matter but > why would you get rid of a perfectly good filter to have one that has a > spinning wheel. > Yes I do have 2 Marinelands with bio wheels but I bought them both used from > craigslist. I still cant pass up a deal! I dont run the bio wheels though. I > just let them float around the tank. > Wouldnt it be better to run 2 regular HOBs on a tank and switch out 1 > cartridge every other time if the filters hold all the bacteria goodness? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35052	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] new tank

the tank i have now is 29 gallons it is 18" x 30" x 12" the new tank came with decorations, 2 large shells, a bunch of smaller shells and the exoskeleton of a star fish not sure i want to use any of them since i don't know where the person got them or what they have been exposed to Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank Those measurements add up to 19.94 gallons. What do you mean by smaller? Shorter in height? What are the dimensions of your current tank? I would use it to increase the water volume of your current tank.. either with the bridge or with the U-tubes. Either would increase the water volume. If you want a separate H-tank or Q-tank, which is certainly recommended, get either a 10G tank or just a clear sterilite storage box which you could put away when not needed... or use it to hold all your non-chemical aquarium stuff. Considering the cost of building a bridge out of the poly tubing, I would save that money towards the much larger tank you will eventually need. Two 20G tanks will be OK for now but if your fish aren't permanently stunted.. you do have goldfish, right?... they will outgrow the space and water volume provided by the 20G's. If you are going to do the DIY 4" or 5" square bridge out of a sheet of plexiglass, then that would be low enough cost to do for now and you could reuse the bridge on two 55G tanks or something like that. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank ok the new tank just got here, it is smaller, i would presume 18 - 20 gallons measures 24" x 12" x 16" i can use it as a hospital tank or build a bridge so they will have more room to swim around have to wait for it to warm up to room temp then i can clean it Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35053	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny

kh = 80 gh = 140 ph = 7.6 Nitrite 0 ppm Nitrate 0 ppm Ammonia 0 ppm after adding Prime to remove the chlorine/cloramine is it normal for the PH to go up ? Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny Well, lets see what the 48 hour baseline tests turn out to be on your tap water before making any assumptions about your final baseline figures. As far as changing your water, NO... there is no need to change anything with your water. Your KH is a little low, but you can use Baking Soda or other source of carbonate to raise it, if we find there is a need, but as long as it's staying between 60-80ppm (3-4 dH) before you do a new PWC, then it will be fine. As the fish get larger, this will have to be tested on a regular basis right before each PWC to make sure the KH level is staying high enough. If the KH gets too low, it can lead to a pH crash but this does not seem to be a problem yet. Back to your tap water baseline... Quite often, the pH, KH and GH will change.. most often the pH, during the 48 hour baseline tests. These change due to the buffers added by your water utility to raise the pH while the water is in the pipes to help prevent or slow down corrosion. As these buffers are exposed to air and light, they'll diminish in effectiveness (that's why many chemicals, medicines, etc., are kept in dark brown bottles and kept sealed). Since your GH appears to have gone up, it could be due to the salt in your tank. Are you adding salt? I know I should remember but I help in several forums and I quit trying to remember each tank's situation a long time ago. If you do have salt in your tank, that will raise the hardness a little and depending on how much salt, if any, that could be the reason for your increase. What else do you have in the tank that could be raising the hardness? Rocks, coral, etc.? Do you have live plants? I'm curious why your nitrates went down from 5ppm to 0ppm. Did you do any PWC's? No need to post all of them other computations. The main two used are ppm (mg/l) or dH. While the exact figure is 17.9ppm per dH, I simply use 20 to get a close enough approximation... so 80ppm KH becomes 4 dH... 60ppm becomes 3 dH, 220ppm becomes 11 dH. Goldfish and many other fish actually like and need harder water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny just tested the tap water straight from the tap before adding dechlor (i found the Prime so i bought it) GH = 120 (moderately hard water) KH = 80 mg/L PH = 7.4 Nitrate = 0 ppm Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm friday test results from the tank are PH is 7.2 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm Nitrate is 5 ppm KH is 60 mg/L GH is 220 ppm (very hard according to the hagen chart) water temp is 74 Today from the tank: PH = 7.2 Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm Nitrate = 0 ppm KH = 60 mg/L GH = 220 ppm water temp is 74 KH x 0.056 = 336 gH° KH x 0.07 = 42 Clark H° KH x 0.6 fH° KH x 1 = 60 hardness° KH x 0.02 = 1.2 mEq/L what could cause the hardness of my tank water to change ? i have not added or removed anything?? both filters now have the bio max, particle filter and fine particle filters should i soften the water or leave well enough alone? if i need to soften the water what is the safest way to do it without stressing the fish and changing the PH ? i have to get ready for work so i will check my emails just before leaving and again tonight when i get home before doing anything :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35054	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish laying eggs

Replying to myself again here ;) guess no one knows anything about breeding angel fish or they're all busy, LOL. Anyways, the eggs are all gone today since I didn't get an answer last night if I should remove the leaf or what-not. I figure one of the fish had a nice meal over night ;) Maybe my angel's will go for another batch later or something. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > I forgot to say that the 10 gallon with fry is guppies, with one female > that's been popping out babies. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Okay so my 2 angel fish apparently decided they really like each other > > recently. They were fighting a bit more lately, and I figured something > > was going on but didn't think they would start laying eggs and > > fertilizing them. One (grey/black striped not sure what kind it is > > precisely) is laying the eggs while my Koi angelfish comes in and is > > apparently fertilizing them (I can see a slight cloud coming out as he > > hovers over the leaf that the female laid eggs on), and the two of them > > are definitely guarding the leaf. My question is this, how likely is it > > for these babies to actually survive in a semi-aggressive aquarium with > > a few "passive" fish as well? I could get a tank divider if it might > > help somehow, wonder how much it will cost at my LFS, afterall it's a > > 125 gallon tank, LOL. On a side note it's nice to see that they are both > > very happy in their environment. All of the fish have increased in size > > and color since I moved them into the bigger tank. > > I currently have a 10 gallon set up with 4 fry and an expecting female > > (well I think she has laid the 4 fry in there and there are more to > > come, but I could be wrong, LOL), could I just cut the leaf with eggs on > > it off of the plant and put it into the 10 gallon or would that be a bad > > idea? > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35055	From: *Carol Lynn*	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: a filter for my 2.5 gallon

Hey, everyone! Is there some sort of a filter that I can get for my 2.5 gallon tank? I've got two glofish and two silver dollars and they seem to make a lots of messes. It's got an under gravel filter but it ain't doing a good job.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Tube clamps.....

Is your Marineland 350 actually a Magnum 350? (I think they are made by marineland if I remember correctly), or here, I'll add a link to see if it's the same filter. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3595 If so mine only has hose clamps on the top parts and bottom of the hoses that connect to the intake/outtake and the filter itself. I'm wondering why you're replacing them unless they broke during removal of the hosing. Your filter hoses will quickly get dirty and turn brown instead of clear (they should have been a solid color hose IMO, hehe). I would have just reused them and used a pipe cleaner brush shoved down them to scrub them out, also you can boil the hoses if you are careful, don't want to melt them, LOL (they sell the pipe cleaners all over, forget precisely what they are called but they come in different lengths). If you already threw the hoses out that's not a big deal, it's easy enough to find the right sized hosing for the filter. If you're going to replace the rubber hose clamps I would make sure you get something tight enough to keep pressure as that's the weak point in the hose the connectors all have parts that screw around the hose to hold it onto the separators on the middle of the hoses, so I would recommend at least the old style metal clamps, but don't over tighten them LOL. You also will not have to worry about any outflowing if the power goes off with this filter, as long as your hoses are still connected of course, LOL. I once made the mistake of forgetting to turn off one end of the separators on the hoses and out poured all sorts of water after I disconnected it, but it took a second so of course I had to scramble to turn it off (turn the flow valve off rather, LOL). I made the hugest mess though! So anyways when your filter is up and running with water (make sure to put water in the canister to prime it in case the previous owners didn't leave you with instructions) in it make sure to turn both sides of the valves off before separating, and then after separating them and pulling the filter out for it's regular cleaning make sure you open the valves on the filter end so that the suction stops so you can get the lid off (another one of my clever incidents, LOL). Also when you do this make sure to have your filter in the sink or a large bucket/rubbermaid container because there will be a little overflow from what was in the hoses pouring out when you take the lid off, also another incident I had, LOL. Yes I may have been one of the 3 stooges in a past life, I swear, although I'm sure it's rather funny to watch me (as long as you're not within hearing distance so I can't smack ya when you laugh at me, LOL). If you have any other questions about this filter feel free to let me know, I'll try to help, God knows I've come across enough quirks in the darn thing, LOL. I have the deluxe version without a bio-wheel but it's not much different I'm sure as far as the canister itself goes. Amber Jim Pat. wrote: > > Well, I started to clean the Marineland 350 and replace the 5/8" tubing > and have one question. Can you use plastic tie wraps in place of those > small rubber bands for the hose connections or am I better off getting > small hose clamps to use? OR should I order up replacement rubber > bands... > One more thing, do you guys/gals use anything that is "in line" on your > air pumps so when the power cuts off those items don't start to suck > water out of the tank..... > Maybe I worry to much about all these connections.. > > Thanks, > > Jim > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon

I'm sure a lot of people are going to tell you this, but your tank is over stocked, in a tank that small you shouldn't have more than maybe 2 very small fish that only grow to an inch at most. Glofish grow up to 2 inches or so I believe (mine aren't full grown yet), and I'm not sure on silver dollars but I'm sure they get more than an inch long, probably a few inches. I would recommend upgrading to a bigger tank as soon as you can, at least a 10 gallon and if you want to add a few more fish then get a 20 gallon or more. Also your glofish are schooling fish so they're going to do best with at least 5 of them. So you're definitely going to want to upgrade your fish tank for something larger soon if you want your glofish danio's happy. Amber *Carol Lynn* wrote: > > Hey, everyone! Is there some sort of a filter that I can get for my > 2.5 gallon tank? I've got two glofish and two silver dollars and they > seem to make a lots of messes. It's got an under gravel filter but it > ain't doing a good job. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35058	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon

Oh. Okay. Thanks. I didn't realize. But yeah, I will be getting a ten gallon in about a week or two. I might keep the little tank for a beta or something. Thanks for the info! Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:20:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon I'm sure a lot of people are going to tell you this, but your tank is over stocked, in a tank that small you shouldn't have more than maybe 2 very small fish that only grow to an inch at most. Glofish grow up to 2 inches or so I believe (mine aren't full grown yet), and I'm not sure on silver dollars but I'm sure they get more than an inch long, probably a few inches. I would recommend upgrading to a bigger tank as soon as you can, at least a 10 gallon and if you want to add a few more fish then get a 20 gallon or more. Also your glofish are schooling fish so they're going to do best with at least 5 of them. So you're definitely going to want to upgrade your fish tank for something larger soon if you want your glofish danio's happy. Amber *Carol Lynn* wrote: > > Hey, everyone! Is there some sort of a filter that I can get for my > 2.5 gallon tank? I've got two glofish and two silver dollars and they > seem to make a lots of messes. It's got an under gravel filter but it > ain't doing a good job. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35059	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny

I don't think the Prime is affecting your pH.. at least I don't think it should be.. nothing in the literature says it will do anything to the pH. But CO2 in your tap water or some other acidic gases, as it/they outgas, would cause the pH to rise a little.. or a lot. I've seen some baselines jump a full point of pH. That could be why your pH also went up in your tank, from your initial tap water tests, the CO2 in your tap water outgased once it was agitated in your tank so the pH rose to it's actual level, rather than the CO2 altered level. This is why it's important to know your tap water baseline before making any assumptions or forming any conclusions about what's happening in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny kh = 80 gh = 140 ph = 7.6 Nitrite 0 ppm Nitrate 0 ppm Ammonia 0 ppm after adding Prime to remove the chlorine/cloramine is it normal for the PH to go up ? Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny Well, lets see what the 48 hour baseline tests turn out to be on your tap water before making any assumptions about your final baseline figures. As far as changing your water, NO... there is no need to change anything with your water. Your KH is a little low, but you can use Baking Soda or other source of carbonate to raise it, if we find there is a need, but as long as it's staying between 60-80ppm (3-4 dH) before you do a new PWC, then it will be fine. As the fish get larger, this will have to be tested on a regular basis right before each PWC to make sure the KH level is staying high enough. If the KH gets too low, it can lead to a pH crash but this does not seem to be a problem yet. Back to your tap water baseline... Quite often, the pH, KH and GH will change.. most often the pH, during the 48 hour baseline tests. These change due to the buffers added by your water utility to raise the pH while the water is in the pipes to help prevent or slow down corrosion. As these buffers are exposed to air and light, they'll diminish in effectiveness (that's why many chemicals, medicines, etc., are kept in dark brown bottles and kept sealed). Since your GH appears to have gone up, it could be due to the salt in your tank. Are you adding salt? I know I should remember but I help in several forums and I quit trying to remember each tank's situation a long time ago. If you do have salt in your tank, that will raise the hardness a little and depending on how much salt, if any, that could be the reason for your increase. What else do you have in the tank that could be raising the hardness? Rocks, coral, etc.? Do you have live plants? I'm curious why your nitrates went down from 5ppm to 0ppm. Did you do any PWC's? No need to post all of them other computations. The main two used are ppm (mg/l) or dH. While the exact figure is 17.9ppm per dH, I simply use 20 to get a close enough approximation... so 80ppm KH becomes 4 dH... 60ppm becomes 3 dH, 220ppm becomes 11 dH. Goldfish and many other fish actually like and need harder water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny just tested the tap water straight from the tap before adding dechlor (i found the Prime so i bought it) GH = 120 (moderately hard water) KH = 80 mg/L PH = 7.4 Nitrate = 0 ppm Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm friday test results from the tank are PH is 7.2 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm Nitrate is 5 ppm KH is 60 mg/L GH is 220 ppm (very hard according to the hagen chart) water temp is 74 Today from the tank: PH = 7.2 Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm Nitrate = 0 ppm KH = 60 mg/L GH = 220 ppm water temp is 74 KH x 0.056 = 336 gH° KH x 0.07 = 42 Clark H° KH x 0.6 fH° KH x 1 = 60 hardness° KH x 0.02 = 1.2 mEq/L what could cause the hardness of my tank water to change ? i have not added or removed anything?? both filters now have the bio max, particle filter and fine particle filters should i soften the water or leave well enough alone? if i need to soften the water what is the safest way to do it without stressing the fish and changing the PH ? i have to get ready for work so i will check my emails just before leaving and again tonight when i get home before doing anything :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35060	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon

My silver dollars were given to me and if I didn't take them my friend was gonna flush them. I couldn't let that happen! Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Carol Lynn <childofgod19832003@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:37:10 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon Oh. Okay. Thanks. I didn't realize. But yeah, I will be getting a ten gallon in about a week or two. I might keep the little tank for a beta or something. Thanks for the info! Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:20:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon I'm sure a lot of people are going to tell you this, but your tank is over stocked, in a tank that small you shouldn't have more than maybe 2 very small fish that only grow to an inch at most. Glofish grow up to 2 inches or so I believe (mine aren't full grown yet), and I'm not sure on silver dollars but I'm sure they get more than an inch long, probably a few inches. I would recommend upgrading to a bigger tank as soon as you can, at least a 10 gallon and if you want to add a few more fish then get a 20 gallon or more. Also your glofish are schooling fish so they're going to do best with at least 5 of them. So you're definitely going to want to upgrade your fish tank for something larger soon if you want your glofish danio's happy. Amber *Carol Lynn* wrote: > > Hey, everyone! Is there some sort of a filter that I can get for my > 2.5 gallon tank? I've got two glofish and two silver dollars and they > seem to make a lots of messes. It's got an under gravel filter but it > ain't doing a good job. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35061	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: new tank

OK.. it's best to conform to LxWxH when posting measurements. I'm guessing your 29G is 30x12x18" high and the new tank is 24x12x16" high? If so, then you will need to raise the new tank by 6" so the tops are close to the same level. Maybe a few bricks with a piece of plywood on top or 2x4's or whatever it takes to make a riser stand so they are close to the same height for the bridge or U-tubes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] new tank the tank i have now is 29 gallons it is 18" x 30" x 12" the new tank came with decorations, 2 large shells, a bunch of smaller shells and the exoskeleton of a star fish not sure i want to use any of them since i don't know where the person got them or what they have been exposed to Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank Those measurements add up to 19.94 gallons. What do you mean by smaller? Shorter in height? What are the dimensions of your current tank? I would use it to increase the water volume of your current tank.. either with the bridge or with the U-tubes. Either would increase the water volume. If you want a separate H-tank or Q-tank, which is certainly recommended, get either a 10G tank or just a clear sterilite storage box which you could put away when not needed... or use it to hold all your non-chemical aquarium stuff. Considering the cost of building a bridge out of the poly tubing, I would save that money towards the much larger tank you will eventually need. Two 20G tanks will be OK for now but if your fish aren't permanently stunted.. you do have goldfish, right?... they will outgrow the space and water volume provided by the 20G's. If you are going to do the DIY 4" or 5" square bridge out of a sheet of plexiglass, then that would be low enough cost to do for now and you could reuse the bridge on two 55G tanks or something like that. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank ok the new tank just got here, it is smaller, i would presume 18 - 20 gallons measures 24" x 12" x 16" i can use it as a hospital tank or build a bridge so they will have more room to swim around have to wait for it to warm up to room temp then i can clean it Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35062	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question

Your biological media should be placed after the mechanical media that removes debris from the water. Placing it before the mechanical media means that it will be also doing part of the job of that media, as well as the biological filtration, and thus need to be cleaned often. If you are using chemical filtration (activated carbon or other), it should go after the biological filtration media. It was mentioned earlier that the bio-wheel is exposed to air, from which the oxygen comes, therefore oxygen is not consumed from the water. Actually, a properly functioning bio-wheel will be covered with water from which the bacteria derive any oxygen they need. The benefit of the great surface area of water being exposed is that it provides a greater surface area for any gaseous exchange that may be occurring as the wheel spins. Without the water, no matter how thin the covering may be, the nitrifying bacteria will cease to function, and eventually die. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > turbocoupe76 > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 1:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bacteria Question > > ok point taken ill put the bio wheels pack on. :) > But any other filter ive seen just has the bio media that sits in > front of the filter cartridge. they are constantly submerged. Thats > what I mean. Any type of filter made now has some sort of bio sponge > that is seperate from the filter cartridge. But alot of people want > bio wheels and such because of what it says on the box (instantly > cleans tank, Now with more bacteria surface area. I have not seen > results yet on my tanks where I would go out and buy a new filter > because it has bio wheels. > I usually wont replace a cartidge or pad unless it rips while im > cleaning it. I just scrub them in the bucket with my hands when im > doing PWC. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Yes, the microscopic nitrifying bacteria live on all surface areas > where > > there is a supply of oxygenated water. However, since all of the > tank's > > water flows through the filter system several times an hour, the > > overwhelming majority of the nitrifying bacteria will reside there > since > > that's where all the food is passing by on a constant basis. If > you have a > > sponge or polyfloss pad or polyfill or whatever and water is > flowing through > > it, then there will be nitrifying bacteria growing on the surface > areas of > > that filter media. Other biological filtration would only be > lagniappe or > > redundancy. > > > > In fact, when someone buys a new filter system that comes with at > least a > > single cartridge, like on a small Whisper 10, that is plenty enough > filter > > media to hold all the nitrifying bacteria needed for a properly > stocked 10G > > tank. As long as you rinse/swoosh/squeeze the filter > cartridge/media in > > removed tank water on a weekly basis, to remove the majority of the > > detritus, that media will stay cycled and can be reused over and > over and > > over for years and years. > > > > If someone does not want to do filter cleaning, then they should > have a > > filter system that has other means of biological filtration like a > > Bio-Wheel, BioMax, etc., so they are not completely trashing their > > biological filtration every time they change out their filter > cartridge on a > > small filter system like a Whisper 10 or other single cartridge > systems. > > > > While the bio-wheels will harbor some nitrifying bacteria while just > > floating around in your tank, they would be home for thousands or > millions > > of times more nitrifying bacteria if they were spinning in the > outflow of > > the filters where they would be getting a constant supply of heavily > > oxygenated water flowing through/over the bio-wheel. That is the > true > > purpose of why Marineland had Dr. Tim Hovanec invent the Bio- > Wheel... so > > they could then, in good conscience, recommend changing out the > filter > > cartridge on a regular basis without harming the fish. By having > the > > Bio-Wheel as the primary home for the majority of the nitrifying > bacteria, > > then trashing the cartridge would not harm the biological > filtration very > > much.... although there is absolutely NO reason to ever trash one > of their > > filter cartridges. They last for years and years and can even be > modified > > to remove the carbon and add more filter media in that part of the > > cartridge.... see my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland > Penguin 200 > > Bio-Wheel" for photos of how I modified mine. > > > > Yes, running two HOB's and only doing filter maintenance on one > filter at a > > time is the best way but it's still better to just do maintenance > on the > > filter rather than trashing it for a new one. With two HOB's, > trashing one > > cartridge could mean you are trashing around 50% of your biological > > filtration meaning your tank will go into a mini-cycle that would > mean > > potentially elevated ammonia/nitrite levels for a up to a couple of > days > > every time you do this. Start testing your water for ammonia and > nitrite > > after you trash one of your cartridges to see if your tank is going > into a > > mini-cycle or not. The bioload and overall ecology of the tank > will have an > > effect on this potential mini-cycle as well. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bacteria Question > > > > While I was trolling the Information Super Highway (rember that > one?) for > > off brand products, I came across alot of forums where people where > > complaining about bacteria. More specifically they where getting > rid of > > filters because theirs didnt have a "bio-sponge, bio-cartridge, bio- > wheel, > > insert bio name here". > > Doesn't bacteria live in all areas of the tank/ornaments/plants and > is > > abundant in the gravel? When I was a kid, I never had bio-*****. > Our tanks > > where fine. > > I am not a profesional by any means, even a pro hobbyist for that > matter but > > why would you get rid of a perfectly good filter to have one that > has a > > spinning wheel. > > Yes I do have 2 Marinelands with bio wheels but I bought them both > used from > > craigslist. I still cant pass up a deal! I dont run the bio wheels > though. I > > just let them float around the tank. > > Wouldnt it be better to run 2 regular HOBs on a tank and switch out > 1 > > cartridge every other time if the filters hold all the bacteria > goodness? > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35063	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish laying eggs

Awww.. if you would have searched the messages for 'breeding angelfish', you would have found plenty. Harry, Ray, \\Steve// and others have written a lot about how to save Angelfish eggs and fry and raise them to maturity. The Mongabay profiles also have info on breeding them. The good news is that they and you aren't very successful the first time anyhow and they'll likely breed many more times now that they've paired off. Do you have more than a pair.. things can sometimes get dicey with any stragglers left outside the pair. If you want to save them, you'll need to have another tank set up and ready to move the leaf or breeding slate (that's the best thing to put in your new tank to give them an easily moved surface to lay the eggs on. Remember that Google is always your friend too! A quick Google of 'breeding angelfish' would have found you tons of info as well. Below are the top 3 hits that came up for me and they all look good. I know Aquatic-Hobbyist is a reliable site and the author of the article, AquaticEnterprises (his forum name) is also very knowledgeable. If you did a Google search on his name, you'll find thousands of forum posts with reliable information. http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/breeding/angelfishbreeding.html http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Shaw_Angelfish_Breeding_tips.ht ml http://angelfish.info/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angelfish laying eggs Replying to myself again here ;) guess no one knows anything about breeding angel fish or they're all busy, LOL. Anyways, the eggs are all gone today since I didn't get an answer last night if I should remove the leaf or what-not. I figure one of the fish had a nice meal over night ;) Maybe my angel's will go for another batch later or something. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > I forgot to say that the 10 gallon with fry is guppies, with one > female that's been popping out babies. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Okay so my 2 angel fish apparently decided they really like each > > other recently. They were fighting a bit more lately, and I figured > > something was going on but didn't think they would start laying eggs > > and fertilizing them. One (grey/black striped not sure what kind it > > is > > precisely) is laying the eggs while my Koi angelfish comes in and is > > apparently fertilizing them (I can see a slight cloud coming out as > > he hovers over the leaf that the female laid eggs on), and the two > > of them are definitely guarding the leaf. My question is this, how > > likely is it for these babies to actually survive in a > > semi-aggressive aquarium with a few "passive" fish as well? I could > > get a tank divider if it might help somehow, wonder how much it will > > cost at my LFS, afterall it's a > > 125 gallon tank, LOL. On a side note it's nice to see that they are > > both very happy in their environment. All of the fish have increased > > in size and color since I moved them into the bigger tank. > > I currently have a 10 gallon set up with 4 fry and an expecting > > female (well I think she has laid the 4 fry in there and there are > > more to come, but I could be wrong, LOL), could I just cut the leaf > > with eggs on it off of the plant and put it into the 10 gallon or > > would that be a bad idea? > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35064	From: bill1433	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Hey Len? Its about plants

Thanks Len,   I appreciate the links,   Bill --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hey Len? Its about plants To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 2:10 PM I don't think there's a search for pH... although that new database site we've been looking at might have a search for plants also.. I haven't really checked for that yet. I checked the plantgeek.net forums for a search on "low pH plants" and I saw your new thread. Hopefully, you'll get more answers. Something I'm thinking is that the plants found in a South American soft water biotope should work for you also. Read over the following for plant ideas. http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope. htm - each section about a specific biotope starts off with the pH range for that biotope. Scrolling down the page and I see the S.E. Asian Blackwater Pool has water that sounds a lot like yours ("...and few, if any, mineral sources, the water is acidic and very soft..."). There are three plant categories listed in that section. These next two S.American biotopes also have your kind of water.. once again another blackwater biotope... http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ rio_sucasari. htm and http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ amazon_blackwate r.htm but at least you have an idea of many types of plants that do well in your low pH water. http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ bio-type. html http://www.freshwat eraquariumplants .com/amazonbioto pe/amazon. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey Len? Its about plants Hi Len,   Posting here rather than direct in case someone else needs the help on the same issue.  I could have sworn that you gave a link for Plant Geek to search for plants by using a pH factor?????? ???????  I went all over their site and yes, registered for the forum, and still cannot find where you search for plants by pH. Matter of fact they don¢t exactly list their plants by a pH factor do they?  Instead they use words like moderate.   I gave them my water parameters and got an answer back describing how to rise my current pH!  You know, cuddle bones, coral, baking soda, the whole 9 yards.  NOT!   No, were not going to start that again.  Am I in the right church but wrong pew?  One of your famous direct links please!   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35065	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon

Whisper sells a little air-pump powered stick on filter that goes inside the tank at the water level that would help but you could also add more power to your UGF with a bigger air stone or pump. Even with a UGF, you need to vacuum your gravel on a weekly basis. Your bigger problem comes with the Silver Dollars http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Metynnis_argenteus.html ... they should grow to 7"+ so they are MUCH TOO BIG of fish for your tank and they should be kept in schools also. The two glofish zebra danios would be the most you should have in your current tank... but they should actually be in schools of 6 or more but your tank isn't large enough for that. They might do OK with only the two of them but you could also end up with lots of anti-social behavior or mating aggressiveness depending on the sex of the glofish. Unless you have plans for a 6' long 100G+ or larger tank in the very near future, you should rehome the silver dollars. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of *Carol Lynn* Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon Hey, everyone! Is there some sort of a filter that I can get for my 2.5 gallon tank? I've got two glofish and two silver dollars and they seem to make a lots of messes. It's got an under gravel filter but it ain't doing a good job.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35066	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon

Hi again... Even the 10G will not be large enough for the Silver Dollars. See my previous reply. If you get the 10G, you should fill out your school of 6 glofish (or regular zebra danios) and that would fill up the 10G. You could maybe add a Mystery Snail to help with algae eating. See my blog for the article "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" for lots of suggestions on stocking a 10G tank. Yes, the 2.5G would be fine for a Betta... although bigger is always better! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carol Lynn Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon Oh. Okay. Thanks. I didn't realize. But yeah, I will be getting a ten gallon in about a week or two. I might keep the little tank for a beta or something. Thanks for the info! Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... <mailto:childofgod19832003%40yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:20:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon I'm sure a lot of people are going to tell you this, but your tank is over stocked, in a tank that small you shouldn't have more than maybe 2 very small fish that only grow to an inch at most. Glofish grow up to 2 inches or so I believe (mine aren't full grown yet), and I'm not sure on silver dollars but I'm sure they get more than an inch long, probably a few inches. I would recommend upgrading to a bigger tank as soon as you can, at least a 10 gallon and if you want to add a few more fish then get a 20 gallon or more. Also your glofish are schooling fish so they're going to do best with at least 5 of them. So you're definitely going to want to upgrade your fish tank for something larger soon if you want your glofish danio's happy. Amber *Carol Lynn* wrote: > > Hey, everyone! Is there some sort of a filter that I can get for my > 2.5 gallon tank? I've got two glofish and two silver dollars and they > seem to make a lots of messes. It's got an under gravel filter but it > ain't doing a good job. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35067	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny

but the ph in the tank was lower, it was 7.2 / 7.4 and when i first tested the tap water it was 7.2 then jumped to 7.6 36 hours later Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:40 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny I don't think the Prime is affecting your pH.. at least I don't think it should be.. nothing in the literature says it will do anything to the pH. But CO2 in your tap water or some other acidic gases, as it/they outgas, would cause the pH to rise a little.. or a lot. I've seen some baselines jump a full point of pH. That could be why your pH also went up in your tank, from your initial tap water tests, the CO2 in your tap water outgased once it was agitated in your tank so the pH rose to it's actual level, rather than the CO2 altered level. This is why it's important to know your tap water baseline before making any assumptions or forming any conclusions about what's happening in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny kh = 80 gh = 140 ph = 7.6 Nitrite 0 ppm Nitrate 0 ppm Ammonia 0 ppm after adding Prime to remove the chlorine/cloramine is it normal for the PH to go up ? Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny Well, lets see what the 48 hour baseline tests turn out to be on your tap water before making any assumptions about your final baseline figures. As far as changing your water, NO... there is no need to change anything with your water. Your KH is a little low, but you can use Baking Soda or other source of carbonate to raise it, if we find there is a need, but as long as it's staying between 60-80ppm (3-4 dH) before you do a new PWC, then it will be fine. As the fish get larger, this will have to be tested on a regular basis right before each PWC to make sure the KH level is staying high enough. If the KH gets too low, it can lead to a pH crash but this does not seem to be a problem yet. Back to your tap water baseline... Quite often, the pH, KH and GH will change.. most often the pH, during the 48 hour baseline tests. These change due to the buffers added by your water utility to raise the pH while the water is in the pipes to help prevent or slow down corrosion. As these buffers are exposed to air and light, they'll diminish in effectiveness (that's why many chemicals, medicines, etc., are kept in dark brown bottles and kept sealed). Since your GH appears to have gone up, it could be due to the salt in your tank. Are you adding salt? I know I should remember but I help in several forums and I quit trying to remember each tank's situation a long time ago. If you do have salt in your tank, that will raise the hardness a little and depending on how much salt, if any, that could be the reason for your increase. What else do you have in the tank that could be raising the hardness? Rocks, coral, etc.? Do you have live plants? I'm curious why your nitrates went down from 5ppm to 0ppm. Did you do any PWC's? No need to post all of them other computations. The main two used are ppm (mg/l) or dH. While the exact figure is 17.9ppm per dH, I simply use 20 to get a close enough approximation... so 80ppm KH becomes 4 dH... 60ppm becomes 3 dH, 220ppm becomes 11 dH. Goldfish and many other fish actually like and need harder water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny just tested the tap water straight from the tap before adding dechlor (i found the Prime so i bought it) GH = 120 (moderately hard water) KH = 80 mg/L PH = 7.4 Nitrate = 0 ppm Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm friday test results from the tank are PH is 7.2 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm Nitrate is 5 ppm KH is 60 mg/L GH is 220 ppm (very hard according to the hagen chart) water temp is 74 Today from the tank: PH = 7.2 Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm Nitrate = 0 ppm KH = 60 mg/L GH = 220 ppm water temp is 74 KH x 0.056 = 336 gH° KH x 0.07 = 42 Clark H° KH x 0.6 fH° KH x 1 = 60 hardness° KH x 0.02 = 1.2 mEq/L what could cause the hardness of my tank water to change ? i have not added or removed anything?? both filters now have the bio max, particle filter and fine particle filters should i soften the water or leave well enough alone? if i need to soften the water what is the safest way to do it without stressing the fish and changing the PH ? i have to get ready for work so i will check my emails just before leaving and again tonight when i get home before doing anything :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35068	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] new tank

i actually lucked out on that part, the larger tank is on a lower stand and the smaller tank is on a higher stand so they are the same height at the top :))) will have to remember L/W/H i usually post the dimensions so that people can visualize it but I'm not feeling too great today since i am fighting off a cold and forgot to post the dimensions ....... the new tank is sitting there waiting to be cleaned and i keep saying 'will get to it in a minute' been saying that for 4 hours now LOL Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:45 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank OK.. it's best to conform to LxWxH when posting measurements. I'm guessing your 29G is 30x12x18" high and the new tank is 24x12x16" high? If so, then you will need to raise the new tank by 6" so the tops are close to the same level. Maybe a few bricks with a piece of plywood on top or 2x4's or whatever it takes to make a riser stand so they are close to the same height for the bridge or U-tubes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] new tank the tank i have now is 29 gallons it is 18" x 30" x 12" the new tank came with decorations, 2 large shells, a bunch of smaller shells and the exoskeleton of a star fish not sure i want to use any of them since i don't know where the person got them or what they have been exposed to Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank Those measurements add up to 19.94 gallons. What do you mean by smaller? Shorter in height? What are the dimensions of your current tank? I would use it to increase the water volume of your current tank.. either with the bridge or with the U-tubes. Either would increase the water volume. If you want a separate H-tank or Q-tank, which is certainly recommended, get either a 10G tank or just a clear sterilite storage box which you could put away when not needed... or use it to hold all your non-chemical aquarium stuff. Considering the cost of building a bridge out of the poly tubing, I would save that money towards the much larger tank you will eventually need. Two 20G tanks will be OK for now but if your fish aren't permanently stunted.. you do have goldfish, right?... they will outgrow the space and water volume provided by the 20G's. If you are going to do the DIY 4" or 5" square bridge out of a sheet of plexiglass, then that would be low enough cost to do for now and you could reuse the bridge on two 55G tanks or something like that. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank ok the new tank just got here, it is smaller, i would presume 18 - 20 gallons measures 24" x 12" x 16" i can use it as a hospital tank or build a bridge so they will have more room to swim around have to wait for it to warm up to room temp then i can clean it Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35069	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon

Carol, make sure you don't get any more fish until you get the bacteria in the new tank and its filter cycled, and use the material from the old tank (minus teh poop) to set it up. Be sure you don't rinse the gravel in chlorinated water. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Lynn" <childofgod19832003@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon Oh. Okay. Thanks. I didn't realize. But yeah, I will be getting a ten gallon in about a week or two. I might keep the little tank for a beta or something. Thanks for the info! Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:20:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon I'm sure a lot of people are going to tell you this, but your tank is over stocked, in a tank that small you shouldn't have more than maybe 2 very small fish that only grow to an inch at most. Glofish grow up to 2 inches or so I believe (mine aren't full grown yet), and I'm not sure on silver dollars but I'm sure they get more than an inch long, probably a few inches. I would recommend upgrading to a bigger tank as soon as you can, at least a 10 gallon and if you want to add a few more fish then get a 20 gallon or more. Also your glofish are schooling fish so they're going to do best with at least 5 of them. So you're definitely going to want to upgrade your fish tank for something larger soon if you want your glofish danio's happy. Amber *Carol Lynn* wrote: > > Hey, everyone! Is there some sort of a filter that I can get for my > 2.5 gallon tank? I've got two glofish and two silver dollars and they > seem to make a lots of messes. It's got an under gravel filter but it > ain't doing a good job. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35070	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Bacteria Question

When I set up my tank eight months ago experts on these lists were swearing that the wheels store your bacteria. Has that changed? Of course, my tank has an extra layer of polyfilter and a bag of those plastic ball things - in each filter. I have two 10 to 20 gallon filters going in a 20 gallon tank. This does help keep my 23 fish happy. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bacteria Question ok point taken ill put the bio wheels pack on. :) But any other filter ive seen just has the bio media that sits in front of the filter cartridge. they are constantly submerged. Thats what I mean. Any type of filter made now has some sort of bio sponge that is seperate from the filter cartridge. But alot of people want bio wheels and such because of what it says on the box (instantly cleans tank, Now with more bacteria surface area. I have not seen results yet on my tanks where I would go out and buy a new filter because it has bio wheels. I usually wont replace a cartidge or pad unless it rips while im cleaning it. I just scrub them in the bucket with my hands when im doing PWC. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, the microscopic nitrifying bacteria live on all surface areas where > there is a supply of oxygenated water. However, since all of the tank's > water flows through the filter system several times an hour, the > overwhelming majority of the nitrifying bacteria will reside there since > that's where all the food is passing by on a constant basis. If you have a > sponge or polyfloss pad or polyfill or whatever and water is flowing through > it, then there will be nitrifying bacteria growing on the surface areas of > that filter media. Other biological filtration would only be lagniappe or > redundancy. > > In fact, when someone buys a new filter system that comes with at least a > single cartridge, like on a small Whisper 10, that is plenty enough filter > media to hold all the nitrifying bacteria needed for a properly stocked 10G > tank. As long as you rinse/swoosh/squeeze the filter cartridge/media in > removed tank water on a weekly basis, to remove the majority of the > detritus, that media will stay cycled and can be reused over and over and > over for years and years. > > If someone does not want to do filter cleaning, then they should have a > filter system that has other means of biological filtration like a > Bio-Wheel, BioMax, etc., so they are not completely trashing their > biological filtration every time they change out their filter cartridge on a > small filter system like a Whisper 10 or other single cartridge systems. > > While the bio-wheels will harbor some nitrifying bacteria while just > floating around in your tank, they would be home for thousands or millions > of times more nitrifying bacteria if they were spinning in the outflow of > the filters where they would be getting a constant supply of heavily > oxygenated water flowing through/over the bio-wheel. That is the true > purpose of why Marineland had Dr. Tim Hovanec invent the Bio- Wheel... so > they could then, in good conscience, recommend changing out the filter > cartridge on a regular basis without harming the fish. By having the > Bio-Wheel as the primary home for the majority of the nitrifying bacteria, > then trashing the cartridge would not harm the biological filtration very > much.... although there is absolutely NO reason to ever trash one of their > filter cartridges. They last for years and years and can even be modified > to remove the carbon and add more filter media in that part of the > cartridge.... see my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland Penguin 200 > Bio-Wheel" for photos of how I modified mine. > > Yes, running two HOB's and only doing filter maintenance on one filter at a > time is the best way but it's still better to just do maintenance on the > filter rather than trashing it for a new one. With two HOB's, trashing one > cartridge could mean you are trashing around 50% of your biological > filtration meaning your tank will go into a mini-cycle that would mean > potentially elevated ammonia/nitrite levels for a up to a couple of days > every time you do this. Start testing your water for ammonia and nitrite > after you trash one of your cartridges to see if your tank is going into a > mini-cycle or not. The bioload and overall ecology of the tank will have an > effect on this potential mini-cycle as well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bacteria Question > > While I was trolling the Information Super Highway (rember that one?) for > off brand products, I came across alot of forums where people where > complaining about bacteria. More specifically they where getting rid of > filters because theirs didnt have a "bio-sponge, bio-cartridge, bio- wheel, > insert bio name here". > Doesn't bacteria live in all areas of the tank/ornaments/plants and is > abundant in the gravel? When I was a kid, I never had bio-*****. Our tanks > where fine. > I am not a profesional by any means, even a pro hobbyist for that matter but > why would you get rid of a perfectly good filter to have one that has a > spinning wheel. > Yes I do have 2 Marinelands with bio wheels but I bought them both used from > craigslist. I still cant pass up a deal! I dont run the bio wheels though. I > just let them float around the tank. > Wouldnt it be better to run 2 regular HOBs on a tank and switch out 1 > cartridge every other time if the filters hold all the bacteria goodness? > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35071	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which is not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the best way to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that day. The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may not do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the fish start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. While waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly local supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this to your tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank water first, so the salt has a chance to dissolve. The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs are laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the parasite that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water column, they will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will help to lead them to their d3mise as they look for a host fish. The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, so they live shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less time to sped finding a host. The white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich will cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > angelandchase49@... > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH > > have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am treating all as ihave no > way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot betterbut its tail is looking a bit > chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store turns water blue not > sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is almost gone now.? I do > plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one has the ick virus(?) on it. > and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long past no signs of ich do i > need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a gold fish that had a > white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what was it? > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35072	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

would regular table salt work that is iodized? -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. hile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly ocal supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, so the salt has a chance to dissolve. The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to their d3mise as they look for a host fish. The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o they live shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less ime to sped finding a host. The white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] n Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am reating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone now.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one as the ick virus(?) on it. and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no signs of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what as it? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the orig inal message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35073	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

also for how long do i do the salt treatment? I would also need to get a heater to heat the tank up some as i dont have one at the moment. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. hile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly ocal supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, so the salt has a chance to dissolve. The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to their d3mise as they look for a host fish. The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o they live shorter life spans. This, in=2 0turn, means they have less ime to sped finding a host. The white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] n Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am reating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone now.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one as the ick virus(?) on it. and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no signs of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what as it? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY=2 0to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35074	From: Darlene	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water 36 hours retested / Lenny

kh = 80 gh = 140 ph = 7.6 Nitrite 0 ppm Nitrate 0 ppm Ammonia 0 ppm after adding Prime to remove the chlorine/cloramine is it normal for the PH to go up ? Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny Well, lets see what the 48 hour baseline tests turn out to be on your tap water before making any assumptions about your final baseline figures. As far as changing your water, NO... there is no need to change anything with your water. Your KH is a little low, but you can use Baking Soda or other source of carbonate to raise it, if we find there is a need, but as long as it's staying between 60-80ppm (3-4 dH) before you do a new PWC, then it will be fine. As the fish get larger, this will have to be tested on a regular basis right before each PWC to make sure the KH level is staying high enough. If the KH gets too low, it can lead to a pH crash but this does not seem to be a problem yet. Back to your tap water baseline... Quite often, the pH, KH and GH will change.. most often the pH, during the 48 hour baseline tests. These change due to the buffers added by your water utility to raise the pH while the water is in the pipes to help prevent or slow down corrosion. As these buffers are exposed to air and light, they'll diminish in effectiveness (that's why many chemicals, medicines, etc., are kept in dark brown bottles and kept sealed). Since your GH appears to have gone up, it could be due to the salt in your tank. Are you adding salt? I know I should remember but I help in several forums and I quit trying to remember each tank's situation a long time ago. If you do have salt in your tank, that will raise the hardness a little and depending on how much salt, if any, that could be the reason for your increase. What else do you have in the tank that could be raising the hardness? Rocks, coral, etc.? Do you have live plants? I'm curious why your nitrates went down from 5ppm to 0ppm. Did you do any PWC's? No need to post all of them other computations. The main two used are ppm (mg/l) or dH. While the exact figure is 17.9ppm per dH, I simply use 20 to get a close enough approximation... so 80ppm KH becomes 4 dH... 60ppm becomes 3 dH, 220ppm becomes 11 dH. Goldfish and many other fish actually like and need harder water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny just tested the tap water straight from the tap before adding dechlor (i found the Prime so i bought it) GH = 120 (moderately hard water) KH = 80 mg/L PH = 7.4 Nitrate = 0 ppm Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm friday test results from the tank are PH is 7.2 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm Nitrate is 5 ppm KH is 60 mg/L GH is 220 ppm (very hard according to the hagen chart) water temp is 74 Today from the tank: PH = 7.2 Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm Nitrate = 0 ppm KH = 60 mg/L GH = 220 ppm water temp is 74 KH x 0.056 = 336 gH° KH x 0.07 = 42 Clark H° KH x 0.6 fH° KH x 1 = 60 hardness° KH x 0.02 = 1.2 mEq/L what could cause the hardness of my tank water to change ? i have not added or removed anything?? both filters now have the bio max, particle filter and fine particle filters should i soften the water or leave well enough alone? if i need to soften the water what is the safest way to do it without stressing the fish and changing the PH ? i have to get ready for work so i will check my emails just before leaving and again tonight when i get home before doing anything :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35075	From: bill1433	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: A New Wrinkle--------Literally!

No worries \\Steve//, the wife somehow got the background beneath the tanks frame and it looks great so I will leave as it is without the tape save for extra water proofing around the top a bit.   Bill --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle--------Literally! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 11:56 PM Bill, I cannot help you much here. I just usually paint the tanks I need a background for. I've tried some other methods, but painting is cheap, easy, and stays in place without the glue of the universe Enid refers to. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Gwydryn@aol. com > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A New Wrinkle----- ---Literally! > > > In a message dated 12/29/2008 6:51:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, > warrenprint@ yahoo.com writes: > > Any thoughts or comic commentary (Yo, \\Steve//) is most welcomed, > I really need help with this one gang. > Bill > > > > It's called clear duct tape! It's the stuff that hold the universe together, > the Force, if you will! Attach it with it to the back of the tank. > Enid > ************ **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, > Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. > (http://www.aol com/?optin= new-dp&icid= aolcom40vanity& ncid=emlcntaolco m0 0000025) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny

Ooops.. didn't look at your specific numbers.. only that you asked if the Prime would make the pH go up. The tap water likely went up for the reason I previously stated about the CO2 outgasing. As far as your tank's pH going down... that is normal. ALL tank's pH will go down as the ecology utilizes the minerals and trace elements in the water (unless there are additives like crushed coral, leaching rocks, etc. that would replace these or increase these). The normal ecology of a closed ecosystem will result in the pH going down as the living things (fish, plants, bacteria, etc.) utilize the minerals (carbonates, salts, etc.). Doing regular PWC's to remove the dirtier water and replace it with clean fresh water also replaces the minerals and nutrients that comes with the fresh water so the pH stays within a certain range. If the pH is dropping too much between PWC's, it means the water does not have sufficient buffers to sustain the pH or the bioload of the tank is too high and is using up the minerals so that means more frequent PWC's would be needed or thinning the stocking on the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny but the ph in the tank was lower, it was 7.2 / 7.4 and when i first tested the tap water it was 7.2 then jumped to 7.6 36 hours later Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:40 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny I don't think the Prime is affecting your pH.. at least I don't think it should be.. nothing in the literature says it will do anything to the pH. But CO2 in your tap water or some other acidic gases, as it/they outgas, would cause the pH to rise a little.. or a lot. I've seen some baselines jump a full point of pH. That could be why your pH also went up in your tank, from your initial tap water tests, the CO2 in your tap water outgased once it was agitated in your tank so the pH rose to it's actual level, rather than the CO2 altered level. This is why it's important to know your tap water baseline before making any assumptions or forming any conclusions about what's happening in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water base line after 36 hours retested / Lenny kh = 80 gh = 140 ph = 7.6 Nitrite 0 ppm Nitrate 0 ppm Ammonia 0 ppm after adding Prime to remove the chlorine/cloramine is it normal for the PH to go up ? Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny Well, lets see what the 48 hour baseline tests turn out to be on your tap water before making any assumptions about your final baseline figures. As far as changing your water, NO... there is no need to change anything with your water. Your KH is a little low, but you can use Baking Soda or other source of carbonate to raise it, if we find there is a need, but as long as it's staying between 60-80ppm (3-4 dH) before you do a new PWC, then it will be fine. As the fish get larger, this will have to be tested on a regular basis right before each PWC to make sure the KH level is staying high enough. If the KH gets too low, it can lead to a pH crash but this does not seem to be a problem yet. Back to your tap water baseline... Quite often, the pH, KH and GH will change.. most often the pH, during the 48 hour baseline tests. These change due to the buffers added by your water utility to raise the pH while the water is in the pipes to help prevent or slow down corrosion. As these buffers are exposed to air and light, they'll diminish in effectiveness (that's why many chemicals, medicines, etc., are kept in dark brown bottles and kept sealed). Since your GH appears to have gone up, it could be due to the salt in your tank. Are you adding salt? I know I should remember but I help in several forums and I quit trying to remember each tank's situation a long time ago. If you do have salt in your tank, that will raise the hardness a little and depending on how much salt, if any, that could be the reason for your increase. What else do you have in the tank that could be raising the hardness? Rocks, coral, etc.? Do you have live plants? I'm curious why your nitrates went down from 5ppm to 0ppm. Did you do any PWC's? No need to post all of them other computations. The main two used are ppm (mg/l) or dH. While the exact figure is 17.9ppm per dH, I simply use 20 to get a close enough approximation... so 80ppm KH becomes 4 dH... 60ppm becomes 3 dH, 220ppm becomes 11 dH. Goldfish and many other fish actually like and need harder water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Q: Hard Water / Lenny just tested the tap water straight from the tap before adding dechlor (i found the Prime so i bought it) GH = 120 (moderately hard water) KH = 80 mg/L PH = 7.4 Nitrate = 0 ppm Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm friday test results from the tank are PH is 7.2 Nitrite is 0 ppm Ammonia is 0 ppm Nitrate is 5 ppm KH is 60 mg/L GH is 220 ppm (very hard according to the hagen chart) water temp is 74 Today from the tank: PH = 7.2 Nitrite = 0 ppm Ammonia = 0 ppm Nitrate = 0 ppm KH = 60 mg/L GH = 220 ppm water temp is 74 KH x 0.056 = 336 gH° KH x 0.07 = 42 Clark H° KH x 0.6 fH° KH x 1 = 60 hardness° KH x 0.02 = 1.2 mEq/L what could cause the hardness of my tank water to change ? i have not added or removed anything?? both filters now have the bio max, particle filter and fine particle filters should i soften the water or leave well enough alone? if i need to soften the water what is the safest way to do it without stressing the fish and changing the PH ? i have to get ready for work so i will check my emails just before leaving and again tonight when i get home before doing anything :) Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35077	From: jason	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

===================== Posted through Grouply, the better way to access your Yahoo Groups like this one. http://www.grouply.com/?code=post

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35078	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: new tank

Yeah.. and the LxWxH is kind of confusing anyhow.. since the width of something would be how wide is it when looking at it but we call that the length of the tank. The correct term for front to back measurement would be depth but then that would be confused with height which is also the depth of the water in the tank. LOL Good to know the tank stands compensated perfectly for the height difference. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] new tank i actually lucked out on that part, the larger tank is on a lower stand and the smaller tank is on a higher stand so they are the same height at the top :))) will have to remember L/W/H i usually post the dimensions so that people can visualize it but I'm not feeling too great today since i am fighting off a cold and forgot to post the dimensions ....... the new tank is sitting there waiting to be cleaned and i keep saying 'will get to it in a minute' been saying that for 4 hours now LOL Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:45 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank OK.. it's best to conform to LxWxH when posting measurements. I'm guessing your 29G is 30x12x18" high and the new tank is 24x12x16" high? If so, then you will need to raise the new tank by 6" so the tops are close to the same level. Maybe a few bricks with a piece of plywood on top or 2x4's or whatever it takes to make a riser stand so they are close to the same height for the bridge or U-tubes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] new tank the tank i have now is 29 gallons it is 18" x 30" x 12" the new tank came with decorations, 2 large shells, a bunch of smaller shells and the exoskeleton of a star fish not sure i want to use any of them since i don't know where the person got them or what they have been exposed to Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank Those measurements add up to 19.94 gallons. What do you mean by smaller? Shorter in height? What are the dimensions of your current tank? I would use it to increase the water volume of your current tank.. either with the bridge or with the U-tubes. Either would increase the water volume. If you want a separate H-tank or Q-tank, which is certainly recommended, get either a 10G tank or just a clear sterilite storage box which you could put away when not needed... or use it to hold all your non-chemical aquarium stuff. Considering the cost of building a bridge out of the poly tubing, I would save that money towards the much larger tank you will eventually need. Two 20G tanks will be OK for now but if your fish aren't permanently stunted.. you do have goldfish, right?... they will outgrow the space and water volume provided by the 20G's. If you are going to do the DIY 4" or 5" square bridge out of a sheet of plexiglass, then that would be low enough cost to do for now and you could reuse the bridge on two 55G tanks or something like that. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Darlene Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank ok the new tank just got here, it is smaller, i would presume 18 - 20 gallons measures 24" x 12" x 16" i can use it as a hospital tank or build a bridge so they will have more room to swim around have to wait for it to warm up to room temp then i can clean it Darlene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35079	From: jason	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Just take one of the klips from your heater and buy a new SET on line. They are cheaper. I hate the ehiem clips.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35080	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

If that is all you have, yes it will work. Next time you have to buy salt for your home, get the plain table salt, preferably without any additives or preservatives... although sporadic use of these are also OK if that's all you have... then you can use it on the fish too... the kind you cook or keep! ;-) The preservatives have only shown to be a problem when used in outdoor ponds where the sunlight has some kind of effect on the preservatives which causes a problem. Tank lighting, regardless of the name on the bulbs, does not come close to mimicking real sunlight... at least I've never gotten much of a tan under the fluorescent "Daylight" bulbs in my office. LOL If you buy the kind \\Steve// recommended, then you could use a pepper grind and use it to grind the larger grains if you want to also use it for your dinner. After the goldfish have acclimated to the higher 78F temp, you could try bumping it up higher as long as you provide plenty of oxygenation with air stones and raising the filter a little to create more surface agitation. My ponds would often reach into the low 90's during the hottest parts of the day down here and I never lost a fish as a result. Of course, those were healthy long-bodied goldfish, as opposed to not-so-healthy round-bodied goldfish. Make sure the tank temp doesn't rise too fast.. no more than 2F per hour and slow it down if the fish start to act too stressed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH would regular table salt work that is iodized? -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. hile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly ocal supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, so the salt has a chance to dissolve. The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to their d3mise as they look for a host fish. The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o they live shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less ime to sped finding a host. The white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am reating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone now.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one as the ick virus(?) on it. and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no signs of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what as it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35081	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

The salt treatment should be continued for a week after you no longer see any white spots on the fish. Here's a couple of articles for further reading... http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17 http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH also for how long do i do the salt treatment? I would also need to get a heater to heat the tank up some as i dont have one at the moment. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. hile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly ocal supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, so the salt has a chance to dissolve. The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to their d3mise as they look for a host fish. The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o they live shorter life spans. This, in=2 0turn, means they have less ime to sped finding a host. The white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am reating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone now.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one as the ick virus(?) on it. and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no signs of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what as it? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY=2 0to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35082	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break?

Jason, Please remove this group from your grouply thing or you will likely get banned from the group and/or other groups. MOST groups feel the same way about Grouply since they spam so many people. You will also find that your personal email address will likely end up on one or more spam blacklists as people report your email address as spam. Just a friendly bit of advice! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jason Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Safe to glue parts back together if they break? ===================== Posted through Grouply, the better way to access your Yahoo Groups like this one. http://www.grouply.com/?code=post <http://www.grouply.com/?code=post>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35083	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

My housemate recently had her thyroid removed - it stopped working and she had goiter. For some reason it's never been possible to get her to eat iodized salt, and it's the only source of iodine most of us have. Don't get iodine-free salt for yourself. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH If that is all you have, yes it will work. Next time you have to buy salt for your home, get the plain table salt, preferably without any additives or preservatives... although sporadic use of these are also OK if that's all you have... then you can use it on the fish too... the kind you cook or keep! ;-) The preservatives have only shown to be a problem when used in outdoor ponds where the sunlight has some kind of effect on the preservatives which causes a problem. Tank lighting, regardless of the name on the bulbs, does not come close to mimicking real sunlight... at least I've never gotten much of a tan under the fluorescent "Daylight" bulbs in my office. LOL If you buy the kind \\Steve// recommended, then you could use a pepper grind and use it to grind the larger grains if you want to also use it for your dinner. After the goldfish have acclimated to the higher 78F temp, you could try bumping it up higher as long as you provide plenty of oxygenation with air stones and raising the filter a little to create more surface agitation. My ponds would often reach into the low 90's during the hottest parts of the day down here and I never lost a fish as a result. Of course, those were healthy long-bodied goldfish, as opposed to not-so-healthy round-bodied goldfish. Make sure the tank temp doesn't rise too fast.. no more than 2F per hour and slow it down if the fish start to act too stressed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH would regular table salt work that is iodized? -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. hile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly ocal supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, so the salt has a chance to dissolve. The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to their d3mise as they look for a host fish. The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o they live shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less ime to sped finding a host. The white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am reating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone now.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one as the ick virus(?) on it. and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no signs of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what as it? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35084	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

it is all i have for now. what kind of heater would be good for a 10 gal tank? as I do not have a heater on the tank. Also how long and often do i do the salt treatment. Do dislove the 10 tsp all at once and for how long? and do i keep th efilter in? any pwc needed? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 7:37 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH If that is all you have, yes it will work. Next time you have to buy salt or your home, get the plain table salt, preferably without any additives or reservatives... although sporadic use of these are also OK if that's all ou have... then you can use it on the fish too... the kind you cook or eep! ;-) The preservatives have only shown to be a problem when used in utdoor ponds where the sunlight has some kind of effect on the reservatives which causes a problem. Tank lighting, regardless of the name n the bulbs, does not come close to mimicking real sunlight... at least 've never gotten much of a tan under the fluorescent "Daylight" bulbs in my ffice. LOL If you buy the kind \\Steve// recommended, then you could use a pepper grind nd use it to grind the larger grains if you want to also use it for your inner. After the goldfish have acclimated to the higher 78F temp, you could try umping it up higher as long as you provide plenty of oxygenation with air tones and raising the filter a little to create more surface ag itation. My onds would often reach into the low 90's during the hottest parts of the ay down here and I never lost a fish as a result. Of course, those were ealthy long-bodied goldfish, as opposed to not-so-healthy round-bodied oldfish. Make sure the tank temp doesn't rise too fast.. no more than 2F er hour and slow it down if the fish start to act too stressed. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right ide, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of angelandchase49@... ent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:36 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH would regular table salt work that is iodized? -----Original Message----- rom: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm ubject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s ot only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way o treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. he ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot o well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish tart to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. ile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly ocal upermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your ank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, o the salt has a chance to dissolve. he white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re aid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite hat will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they ill then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to heir d3mise as they look for a host fish. he purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o hey live shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less ime to ped finding a host. he white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill over a fish with what looks like salt crystals. \Steve// -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> ent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: [AquaticLife] ICH have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am eating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is ooking alot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been reating the ich with stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure hat the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone ow.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old ne as the ick virus(?) on it. nd don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no igns of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the tuff from had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. has that ich that i saw or what as it? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35085	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

Dora, There are dozens of sources of Iodine in modern foods. Many people on low-salt or no-salt diets rely on these other dietary sources for their RDA of Iodine. Most people don't eat a teaspoon of iodized salt a day but they still get plenty from the other sources like beef, milk and dairy products, other farm animals and their by-products like eggs, seafood, lots of different fruits and veggies, etc. A snip from Northwestern School Of Medicine... http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/nutrition/factsheets/iodine.html Dietary Sources Although most foods do not contain iodine, one teaspoon of iodized salt consumed daily is more than sufficient to satisfy physiological requirements for this nutrient. Other dietary sources of iodine include drinking water, seafood (clams, lobster, oysters, sardines and ocean fish) and dairy products from feed additives as well as from disinfectants used on dairy farms. The iodine content of fruits and vegetables is dependent upon soil content. More detailed information on food sources of iodine is provided below. Iodine Content of Food Food Iodine(mcg) Salt, iodized, 1 tsp. 400 Haddock, 3 oz. 104 - 145 Bread, regular process, 1slice 35 Cheese, cottage, 2% fat, 1/2 cup 26 - 71 Shrimp, 3 oz. 21 - 37 Egg, 1 18 - 26 Cheese, cheddar, 1 oz. 5 - 23 Ground beef, 3 oz, cooked 8 (END SNIP) It's OK to use non-iodized salt as long as we eat some or all of these other food items. I wonder if my Tony Chachere's Cajun Seasonings has plain or iodized salt... since I rarely use regular salt... that's for the fish! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH My housemate recently had her thyroid removed - it stopped working and she had goiter. For some reason it's never been possible to get her to eat iodized salt, and it's the only source of iodine most of us have. Don't get iodine-free salt for yourself. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH If that is all you have, yes it will work. Next time you have to buy salt for your home, get the plain table salt, preferably without any additives or preservatives... although sporadic use of these are also OK if that's all you have... then you can use it on the fish too... the kind you cook or keep! ;-) The preservatives have only shown to be a problem when used in outdoor ponds where the sunlight has some kind of effect on the preservatives which causes a problem. Tank lighting, regardless of the name on the bulbs, does not come close to mimicking real sunlight... at least I've never gotten much of a tan under the fluorescent "Daylight" bulbs in my office. LOL If you buy the kind \\Steve// recommended, then you could use a pepper grind and use it to grind the larger grains if you want to also use it for your dinner. After the goldfish have acclimated to the higher 78F temp, you could try bumping it up higher as long as you provide plenty of oxygenation with air stones and raising the filter a little to create more surface agitation. My ponds would often reach into the low 90's during the hottest parts of the day down here and I never lost a fish as a result. Of course, those were healthy long-bodied goldfish, as opposed to not-so-healthy round-bodied goldfish. Make sure the tank temp doesn't rise too fast.. no more than 2F per hour and slow it down if the fish start to act too stressed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH would regular table salt work that is iodized? -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. hile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly ocal supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, so the salt has a chance to dissolve. The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to their d3mise as they look for a host fish. The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o they live shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less ime to sped finding a host. The white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am reating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone now.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one as the ick virus(?) on it. and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no signs of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what as it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35086	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

ty -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 7:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH The salt treatment should be continued for a week after you no longer see ny white spots on the fish. Here's a couple of articles for further eading... http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17 http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right ide, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of angelandchase49@... ent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:38 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH also for how long do i do the salt treatment? I would also need to get a eater to heat the tank up some as i dont have one at the moment. -----Original Message----- rom: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm ubject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s ot only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way o treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. he ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot o well at that temperature,20so you would need to raise it until the ish tart to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. ile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly ocal upermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your ank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, o the salt has a chance to dissolve. he white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re aid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite hat will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they ill then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to heir d3mise as they look for a host fish. he purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o hey live shorter life spans. This, in=2 0turn, means they have less ime to ped finding a host. he white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill over a fish with what looks like salt crystals. \Steve// -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> ent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: [AquaticLife] ICH have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am eating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is ooking alot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been reating the ich with stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure hat the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone ow.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old ne as the ick virus(?) on it. nd don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no igns of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the tuff from had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. has that ich that i saw or what as it? ----------------------------------- lease, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> EASE, when you REPLY=2 0to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to he eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT INE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links ndividual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE thi s line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35087	From: Carol Lynn	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: a filter for my 2.5 gallon

Okay. Yeah, we have city water and chlorine is always a prob. Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@... ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:19:16 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon Carol, make sure you don't get any more fish until you get the bacteria in the new tank and its filter cycled, and use the material from the old tank (minus teh poop) to set it up. Be sure you don't rinse the gravel in chlorinated water. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Lynn" <childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon Oh. Okay. Thanks. I didn't realize. But yeah, I will be getting a ten gallon in about a week or two. I might keep the little tank for a beta or something. Thanks for the info! Carol Lynn Cumberland childofgod19832003@ yahoo.com ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:20:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] a filter for my 2.5 gallon I'm sure a lot of people are going to tell you this, but your tank is over stocked, in a tank that small you shouldn't have more than maybe 2 very small fish that only grow to an inch at most. Glofish grow up to 2 inches or so I believe (mine aren't full grown yet), and I'm not sure on silver dollars but I'm sure they get more than an inch long, probably a few inches. I would recommend upgrading to a bigger tank as soon as you can, at least a 10 gallon and if you want to add a few more fish then get a 20 gallon or more. Also your glofish are schooling fish so they're going to do best with at least 5 of them. So you're definitely going to want to upgrade your fish tank for something larger soon if you want your glofish danio's happy. Amber *Carol Lynn* wrote: > > Hey, everyone! Is there some sort of a filter that I can get for my > 2.5 gallon tank? I've got two glofish and two silver dollars and they > seem to make a lots of messes. It's got an under gravel filter but it > ain't doing a good job. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35088	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

Normally, 3 to 5 watts per gallon is sufficient for heating a tank... but that is also dependent on the ambient temperature of the room where the tank is kept. For example, if room temp is 70-72F then the 5WPG will work to bring the tank up to the mid 80F range. If your room temp is down in the low 60's then you would need more wattage. Yes, take the 10 teaspoons (1 teaspoon per gallon) and stir it in some removed tank water until dissolved. Then slowly pour it into the tank avoiding the fish and the intake to the filter.. you don't want the brine solution going right into the filter or it will harm the good nitrifying bacteria but they will do fine at the 0.1% level (1 teaspoon per gallon). Yes, keep the filter running and put something under the lip of HOB filter to raise it a an inch (I use an old Marks-A-Lot plastic tube but anything will work) so it will cause more surface splashing and deeper water circulation. If you've been reading all of the other goldfish thread we've had going on out here, you'll know that the 10G tank isn't big enough. I hope you're planning on a larger tank or there is a likelihood that your goldfish will be sick often due to the stress of being kept in too small of a tank. A 55G 4' long tank is OK for two fancy goldfish. A 10G isn't enough for even a single goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH it is all i have for now. what kind of heater would be good for a 10 gal tank? as I do not have a heater on the tank. Also how long and often do i do the salt treatment. Do dislove the 10 tsp all at once and for how long? and do i keep th efilter in? any pwc needed? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 7:37 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH If that is all you have, yes it will work. Next time you have to buy salt or your home, get the plain table salt, preferably without any additives or reservatives... although sporadic use of these are also OK if that's all ou have... then you can use it on the fish too... the kind you cook or eep! ;-) The preservatives have only shown to be a problem when used in utdoor ponds where the sunlight has some kind of effect on the reservatives which causes a problem. Tank lighting, regardless of the name n the bulbs, does not come close to mimicking real sunlight... at least 've never gotten much of a tan under the fluorescent "Daylight" bulbs in my ffice. LOL If you buy the kind \\Steve// recommended, then you could use a pepper grind nd use it to grind the larger grains if you want to also use it for your inner. After the goldfish have acclimated to the higher 78F temp, you could try umping it up higher as long as you provide plenty of oxygenation with air tones and raising the filter a little to create more surface ag itation. My onds would often reach into the low 90's during the hottest parts of the ay down here and I never lost a fish as a result. Of course, those were ealthy long-bodied goldfish, as opposed to not-so-healthy round-bodied oldfish. Make sure the tank temp doesn't rise too fast.. no more than 2F er hour and slow it down if the fish start to act too stressed. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right ide, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On ehalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> ent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:36 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH would regular table salt work that is iodized? -----Original Message----- rom: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm ubject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s ot only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way o treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. he ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot o well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish tart to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. ile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly ocal upermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your ank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, o the salt has a chance to dissolve. he white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re aid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite hat will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they ill then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to heir d3mise as they look for a host fish. he purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o hey live shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less ime to ped finding a host. he white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill over a fish with what looks like salt crystals. \Steve// -----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> ent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: [AquaticLife] ICH have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am eating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is ooking alot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been reating the ich with stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure hat the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone ow.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old ne as the ick virus(?) on it. nd don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no igns of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the tuff from had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. has that ich that i saw or what as it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35089	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

that i will. DO i add the salt every day? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 8:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH Normally, 3 to 5 watts per gallon is sufficient for heating a tank... but hat is also dependent on the ambient temperature of the room where the tank s kept. For example, if room temp is 70-72F then the 5WPG will work to ring the tank up to the mid 80F range. If your room temp is down in the ow 60's then you would need more wattage. Yes, take the 10 teaspoons (1 teaspoon per gallon) and stir it in some emoved tank water until dissolved. Then slowly pour it into the tank voiding the fish and the intake to the filter.. you don't want the brine olution going right into the filter or it will harm the good nitrifying acteria but they will do fine at the 0.1% level (1 teaspoon per gallon). Yes, keep the filter running and put something under the lip of HOB filter o raise it a an inch (I use an old Marks-A-Lot plastic tube but anything ill work) so it will cause more surface splashing and deeper water irculation. If you've been reading all of the other goldfish thread we've had going on ut here, you'll know that the 10G tank isn't big enough. I hope you're lanning on a larger tank or there is a likelihood that your goldfish will e sick often due to the stress of being kept in too small of a tank. A 55G ' long tank is OK for two fancy goldfish. A 10G isn't enough for even a ingle goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right ide, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On ehalf Of angelandchase49@... ent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:14 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH it is all i have for now. what kind of heater would be good for a 10 gal ank? s I do not have a heater on the tank. Also how long and often do i do the alt treatment. Do dislove the 10 tsp all at once and for how long? and do i eep th efilter in? any pwc needed? -----Original Message----- rom: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 7:37 pm ubject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH If that is all you have, yes it will work. Next time you have to buy salt or our home, get the plain table salt, preferably without any additives or eservatives... although sporadic use of these are also OK if that's all ou ave... then you can use it on the fish too... the kind you cook or eep! ;-) he preservatives have only shown to be a problem when used in utdoor ponds here the sunlight has some kind of effect on the reservatives which causes problem. Tank lighting, regardless of the name n the bulbs, does not come lose to mimicking real sunlight... at least 've never gotten much of a tan nder the fluorescent "Daylight" bulbs in my ffice. LOL If you buy the kind \Steve// recommended, then you could use a pepper grind nd use it to grind he larger grains if you want to also use it for your inner. fter the goldfish have acclimated to the higher 78F temp, you could try mping it up higher as long as you provide plenty of oxygenation with air ones and raising the filter a little to create more surface ag itation. My nds would often reach into the low 90's during the hottest parts of the ay own here and I never lost a fish as a result. Of course, those were ealthy ong-bodied goldfish, as opposed to not-so-healthy round-bodied oldfish. ake sure the tank temp doesn't rise too fast.. no more than 2F er hour and low it down if the fish start to act too stressed. enny Vasbinder sh Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> inks to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right ide, lphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ----Original Message----- om: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n ehalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> nt: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:36 PM : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> bject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH ould regular table salt work that is iodized? ----Original Message----- om: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mai lto:steve%40familyszabo.com> mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> nt: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm bject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH he substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s t only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. e ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot o ell at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish tart o become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. le waiting for the temperature to ise, go over to your friendly ocal permarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your ank t the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, o the alt has a chance to dissolve. e white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re id. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite at will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they ll then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to eir d3mise as they look for a host fish. e purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o hey ive shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less ime to ped inding a host. e white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill over fish with what20looks like salt crystals. Steve// ----Original Message----- om: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] Behalf Of angelandchase49@... mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> nt: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> bject: [AquaticLife] ICH ave been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am eating ll as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is ooking lot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been reating the ich ith stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure hat the med is alled but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone ow.? I do plan n getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old ne as the ick irus(?) on it. d don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no gns of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the tuff rom had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. as that ich that i saw or what as it? ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY t o a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35090	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

No. It's a one time dose. Salt does not evaporate or wear out... well I guess over a really long period it might be utilized as a nutrient but it would take a long time... HOWEVER... when doing your frequent PWC's (partial water change), that will be needed for goldfish in a 10G tank, top off the tank first with dechlored tap water, then remove the 2.5 to 3G (25% to 30%). When replacing, add the 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon to the replacement water before adding it back to the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of angelandchase49@... Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH that i will. DO i add the salt every day? -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 8:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH Normally, 3 to 5 watts per gallon is sufficient for heating a tank... but hat is also dependent on the ambient temperature of the room where the tank s kept. For example, if room temp is 70-72F then the 5WPG will work to ring the tank up to the mid 80F range. If your room temp is down in the ow 60's then you would need more wattage. Yes, take the 10 teaspoons (1 teaspoon per gallon) and stir it in some emoved tank water until dissolved. Then slowly pour it into the tank voiding the fish and the intake to the filter.. you don't want the brine olution going right into the filter or it will harm the good nitrifying acteria but they will do fine at the 0.1% level (1 teaspoon per gallon). Yes, keep the filter running and put something under the lip of HOB filter o raise it a an inch (I use an old Marks-A-Lot plastic tube but anything ill work) so it will cause more surface splashing and deeper water irculation. If you've been reading all of the other goldfish thread we've had going on ut here, you'll know that the 10G tank isn't big enough. I hope you're lanning on a larger tank or there is a likelihood that your goldfish will e sick often due to the stress of being kept in too small of a tank. A 55G ' long tank is OK for two fancy goldfish. A 10G isn't enough for even a ingle goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder ish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right ide, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ----Original Message----- rom: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On ehalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> ent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:14 PM o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ubject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH it is all i have for now. what kind of heater would be good for a 10 gal ank? s I do not have a heater on the tank. Also how long and often do i do the alt treatment. Do dislove the 10 tsp all at once and for how long? and do i eep th efilter in? any pwc needed? -----Original Message----- rom: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 7:37 pm ubject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH If that is all you have, yes it will work. Next time you have to buy salt or our home, get the plain table salt, preferably without any additives or eservatives... although sporadic use of these are also OK if that's all ou ave... then you can use it on the fish too... the kind you cook or eep! ;-) he preservatives have only shown to be a problem when used in utdoor ponds here the sunlight has some kind of effect on the reservatives which causes problem. Tank lighting, regardless of the name n the bulbs, does not come lose to mimicking real sunlight... at least 've never gotten much of a tan nder the fluorescent "Daylight" bulbs in my ffice. LOL If you buy the kind \Steve// recommended, then you could use a pepper grind nd use it to grind he larger grains if you want to also use it for your inner. fter the goldfish have acclimated to the higher 78F temp, you could try mping it up higher as long as you provide plenty of oxygenation with air ones and raising the filter a little to create more surface ag itation. My nds would often reach into the low 90's during the hottest parts of the ay own here and I never lost a fish as a result. Of course, those were ealthy ong-bodied goldfish, as opposed to not-so-healthy round-bodied oldfish. ake sure the tank temp doesn't rise too fast.. no more than 2F er hour and low it down if the fish start to act too stressed. enny Vasbinder sh Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > inks to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right ide, lphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ----Original Message----- om: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] n ehalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> nt: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:36 PM : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> bject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH ould regular table salt work that is iodized? ----Original Message----- om: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mai lto:steve%40familyszabo.com> mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> nt: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm bject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH he substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s t only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. e ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot o ell at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish tart o become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. le waiting for the temperature to ise, go over to your friendly ocal permarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your ank t the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, o the alt has a chance to dissolve. e white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re id. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite at will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they ll then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to eir d3mise as they look for a host fish. e purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o hey ive shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less ime to ped inding a host. e white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill over fish with what20looks like salt crystals. Steve// ----Original Message----- om: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> nt: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM : AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> bject: [AquaticLife] ICH ave been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am eating ll as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is ooking lot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been reating the ich ith stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure hat the med is alled but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone ow.? I do plan n getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old ne as the ick irus(?) on it. d don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no gns of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the tuff rom had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. as that ich that i saw or what as it? ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY t o a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35091	From: Lisa	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Algae eaters.

What would be some good small species algae eaters that are compatable with swordtails? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35092	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Algae eaters.

Otocinclus, select snails, small varieties of algae eating plecos. Oh, check out Garra Garra, I forget how big they get. At the moment the prices on som Garra are high as the West has finally figured out that places like Turkey and Japan use Garra for exczema and other skin issues. They have spas where you go get nibbled on by them. :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:48 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters. What would be some good small species algae eaters that are compatable with swordtails? Thanks Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35093	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Algae eaters.

What size tank? What kind of water parameters? The Mongabay profile on Swordtails... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Xiphophorus_helleri.html shows one of the compatible species are loricarids (armored suckermouth catfish with 600 species found in Central and South America... many are algae eaters) http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm from 1.5" Otocinclus affinis to 4"-6" Dwarf Pleco's to the 18"-24" BIG BOY Common Pleco's. Many of these prefer low pH water but many can also do well in neutral to low to mid 7's pH. I have hard water with high 7's pH and I've had a couple of different pleco species all do well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters. What would be some good small species algae eaters that are compatable with swordtails? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY... SEE Y'ALL NEXT YEAR (Was RE: [AquaticLif

Uh Oh Mike... your secret is out. You get your Garra Garra pedicure every week at the Lil Tokyo Spa! ;-) HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY.... SEE Y'ALL NEXT YEAR!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters. Otocinclus, select snails, small varieties of algae eating plecos. Oh, check out Garra Garra, I forget how big they get. At the moment the prices on som Garra are high as the West has finally figured out that places like Turkey and Japan use Garra for exczema and other skin issues. They have spas where you go get nibbled on by them. :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@... <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:48 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters. What would be some good small species algae eaters that are compatable with swordtails? Thanks Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35095	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish laying eggs

It is not unusual for angel pairs to eat their eggs, even several times, before they get it "right" and understand that making caviar of their young may not be such a good idea. If there are other fish in the tank, it is quite possible someone snuck in at night and had a feast also. If the eggs were not fertile, they may also be eaten by the parents. If you do want to breed them, your best bet may be to place the two of them in a 40 gallon tank or better for breeding along with the appropriate pieces of slate and roughly vertical broad leafed plants (real or artificial) to give them a choice of spots to lay eggs, and cross your fingers they do not decide to use the heater, or the filter siphon tube instead. Then, if you want to ensure the eggs stick around, you may remove the surface they were laid on to another tank with methyline blue added and an air stone strategically placed to provide water movement. Alternatively, you can move the parents. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angelfish laying eggs > > Replying to myself again here ;) guess no one knows anything about > breeding angel fish or they're all busy, LOL. > Anyways, the eggs are all gone today since I didn't get an answer last > night if I should remove the leaf or what-not. I figure one of the fish > had a nice meal over night ;) Maybe my angel's will go for another batch > later or something. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I forgot to say that the 10 gallon with fry is guppies, with one female > > that's been popping out babies. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Okay so my 2 angel fish apparently decided they really like each other > > > recently. They were fighting a bit more lately, and I figured something > > > was going on but didn't think they would start laying eggs and > > > fertilizing them. One (grey/black striped not sure what kind it is > > > precisely) is laying the eggs while my Koi angelfish comes in and is > > > apparently fertilizing them (I can see a slight cloud coming out as he > > > hovers over the leaf that the female laid eggs on), and the two of them > > > are definitely guarding the leaf. My question is this, how likely is it > > > for these babies to actually survive in a semi-aggressive aquarium with > > > a few "passive" fish as well? I could get a tank divider if it might > > > help somehow, wonder how much it will cost at my LFS, afterall it's a > > > 125 gallon tank, LOL. On a side note it's nice to see that they are both > > > very happy in their environment. All of the fish have increased in size > > > and color since I moved them into the bigger tank. > > > I currently have a 10 gallon set up with 4 fry and an expecting female > > > (well I think she has laid the 4 fry in there and there are more to > > > come, but I could be wrong, LOL), could I just cut the leaf with eggs on > > > it off of the plant and put it into the 10 gallon or would that be a bad > > > idea? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35096	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

You can use regular table salt if you wish. The added iodine should be of no concern. The problems that were associated with iodine were really caused by the anti-caking agent that was used to keep the salt relatively free flowing. What is being used today does not seem to affect the fish. Kosher salt, without the iodine can also be used as a table salt. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > angelandchase49@... > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH > > would regular table salt work that is iodized? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH > > > > The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which > s not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the > est way to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that > ay. > The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may > ot do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the > ish start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. > hile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly > ocal supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this > o your tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank > ater first, so the salt has a chance to dissolve. > The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs > re laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the > arasite that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water > olumn, they will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will > elp to lead them to their d3mise as they look for a host fish. > The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, > o they live shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less > ime to sped finding a host. > The white cottony substance you report is likely > to be a fungus. Ich > ill cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > n Behalf Of > angelandchase49@... > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH > > have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am > reating all as ihave no > way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot > etterbut its tail is looking a bit > chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store > urns water blue not > sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is > lmost gone now.? I do > plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one > as the ick virus(?) on it. > and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long > ast no signs of ich do i > need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a > old fish that had a > white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what > as it? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35097	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

Once the cysts have disappeared, and no new ones have developed within 3-4 days, you can start doing water changes to remove the salt from the tank, and gradually lower the tank's temperature to the level it was before treatment was started--I'm guessing room temperature. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > angelandchase49@... > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH > > also for how long do i do the salt treatment? I would also need to get a heater to heat the > tank up some as i dont have one at the moment. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH > > > > The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which > s not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the > est way to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that > ay. > The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may > ot do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the > ish start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. > hile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly > ocal supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this > o your tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank > ater first, so the salt has a chance to dissolve. > The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs > re laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the > arasite that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water > olumn, they will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will > elp to lead them to their d3mise as they look for a host fish. > The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, > o they live shorter life spans. This, in=2 > 0turn, means they have less > ime to sped finding a host. > The white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich > ill cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > n Behalf Of > angelandchase49@... > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH > > have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am > reating all as ihave no > way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot > etterbut its tail is looking a bit > chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store > urns water blue not > sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is > lmost gone now.? I do > plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one > as the ick virus(?) on it. > and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long > ast no signs of ich do i > need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a > old fish that had a > white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what > as it? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35098	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY... SEE Y'ALL NEXT YEAR (Was RE: [Aquati

LOL Darn Lenny! That was our little secret :) Happy New Year everyone! Even Lenny! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 7:28 pm Subject: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY... SEE Y'ALL NEXT YEAR (Was RE: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters.) Uh Oh Mike... your secret is out. You get your Garra Garra pedicure every week at the Lil Tokyo Spa! ;-) HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY.... SEE Y'ALL NEXT YEAR!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters. Otocinclus, select snails, small varieties of algae eating plecos. Oh, check out Garra Garra, I forget how big they get. At the moment the prices on som Garra are high as the West has finally figured out that places like Turkey and Japan use Garra for exczema and other skin issues. They have spas where you go get nibbled on by them. :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@... <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:48 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae eaters. What would be some good=2 0small species algae eaters that are compatable with swordtails? Thanks Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35099	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

Lenny, They also have salt grinders, which may be more appropriate. Or, you could always use a mortar and pestle. Frankly, though, I've never done either when using kosher salt at the table or for cooking. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH > > If that is all you have, yes it will work. Next time you have to buy salt > for your home, get the plain table salt, preferably without any additives or > preservatives... although sporadic use of these are also OK if that's all > you have... then you can use it on the fish too... the kind you cook or > keep! ;-) The preservatives have only shown to be a problem when used in > outdoor ponds where the sunlight has some kind of effect on the > preservatives which causes a problem. Tank lighting, regardless of the name > on the bulbs, does not come close to mimicking real sunlight... at least > I've never gotten much of a tan under the fluorescent "Daylight" bulbs in my > office. LOL > > If you buy the kind \\Steve// recommended, then you could use a pepper grind > and use it to grind the larger grains if you want to also use it for your > dinner. > > After the goldfish have acclimated to the higher 78F temp, you could try > bumping it up higher as long as you provide plenty of oxygenation with air > stones and raising the filter a little to create more surface agitation. My > ponds would often reach into the low 90's during the hottest parts of the > day down here and I never lost a fish as a result. Of course, those were > healthy long-bodied goldfish, as opposed to not-so-healthy round-bodied > goldfish. Make sure the tank temp doesn't rise too fast.. no more than 2F > per hour and slow it down if the fish start to act too stressed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of angelandchase49@... > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH > > would regular table salt work that is iodized? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH > > The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which s > not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the est way > to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that ay. > The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may ot > do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the ish > start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. > hile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly ocal > supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this o your > tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank ater first, > so the salt has a chance to dissolve. > The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs re > laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the arasite > that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water olumn, they > will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will elp to lead them to > their d3mise as they look for a host fish. > The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, o > they live shorter life spans. This, in turn, means they have less ime to > sped finding a host. > The white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich ill > cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > n Behalf Of angelandchase49@... <mailto:angelandchase49%40aim.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH > > have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am > reating all as ihave no way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is > looking alot etterbut its tail is looking a bit chewed up. have been > treating the ich with stuff bought from a store urns water blue not sure > what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is lmost gone > now.? I do plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old > one as the ick virus(?) on it. > and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long ast no > signs of ich do i need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the > stuff from had a old fish that had a white cottony like spot over its eye. > Whas that ich that i saw or what as it? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35100	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: Angelfish laying eggs

what would be the best filter to use or would a normal powerfilter be okay? I would hate to suck up any newborn fry. I also don't have the proper food to feed them either, and I doubt my fish store can supply me with any, so I may as well forget about that though at least for now ;) but thanks for the help :) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > It is not unusual for angel pairs to eat their eggs, even several > times, before they get it "right" and understand that making caviar of > their young may not be such a good idea. If there are other fish in > the tank, it is quite possible someone snuck in at night and had a > feast also. If the eggs were not fertile, they may also be eaten by > the parents. > > If you do want to breed them, your best bet may be to place the two of > them in a 40 gallon tank or better for breeding along with the > appropriate pieces of slate and roughly vertical broad leafed plants > (real or artificial) to give them a choice of spots to lay eggs, and > cross your fingers they do not decide to use the heater, or the filter > siphon tube instead. Then, if you want to ensure the eggs stick > around, you may remove the surface they were laid on to another tank > with methyline blue added and an air stone strategically placed to > provide water movement. Alternatively, you can move the parents. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angelfish laying eggs > > > > Replying to myself again here ;) guess no one knows anything about > > breeding angel fish or they're all busy, LOL. > > Anyways, the eggs are all gone today since I didn't get an answer last > > night if I should remove the leaf or what-not. I figure one of the fish > > had a nice meal over night ;) Maybe my angel's will go for another batch > > later or something. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > I forgot to say that the 10 gallon with fry is guppies, with one > female > > > that's been popping out babies. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay so my 2 angel fish apparently decided they really like each > other > > > > recently. They were fighting a bit more lately, and I figured > something > > > > was going on but didn't think they would start laying eggs and > > > > fertilizing them. One (grey/black striped not sure what kind it is > > > > precisely) is laying the eggs while my Koi angelfish comes in and is > > > > apparently fertilizing them (I can see a slight cloud coming out > as he > > > > hovers over the leaf that the female laid eggs on), and the two > of them > > > > are definitely guarding the leaf. My question is this, how > likely is it > > > > for these babies to actually survive in a semi-aggressive > aquarium with > > > > a few "passive" fish as well? I could get a tank divider if it might > > > > help somehow, wonder how much it will cost at my LFS, afterall > it's a > > > > 125 gallon tank, LOL. On a side note it's nice to see that they > are both > > > > very happy in their environment. All of the fish have increased > in size > > > > and color since I moved them into the bigger tank. > > > > I currently have a 10 gallon set up with 4 fry and an expecting > female > > > > (well I think she has laid the 4 fry in there and there are more to > > > > come, but I could be wrong, LOL), could I just cut the leaf with > eggs on > > > > it off of the plant and put it into the 10 gallon or would that > be a bad > > > > idea? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35101	From: angelandchase49@aim.com	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: ICH

yes as i have no heater at all. so would have to buy one -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:20 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH Once the cysts have disappeared, and no new ones have developed within 3-4 days, you can start doing water changes to remove the salt from the tank, and gradually lower the tank's temperature to the level it was before treatment was started--I'm guessing room temperature. \\Steve// > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > angelandchase49@... > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH > > also for how long do i do the salt treatment? I would also need to get a heater to heat the > tank up some as i dont have one at the moment. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:32 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] ICH > > > > The substance the store sold you probably contains methyline blue, which > s not only a medication, but a dye. If the store had told you that the > est way to treat ich, they would not have made any money from you that > ay. > The ideal temperature for an ich cure is 84 degrees F. Your goldfish may > ot do well at that temperature, so you would need to raise it until the > ish start to become uncomfortable, which would like be 76-78 degrees. > hile waiting for the temperature to rise, go over to your friendly > ocal supermarket and get yourself some kosher or canning salt. Add this > o your tank at the rate of 1 tsp per gallon of water. Mix it with tank > ater first, so the salt has a chance to dissolve. > The white spots you see on the fish are created by the parasite and eggs > re laid. When the cysts burst open The eggs will release a form of the > arasite that will then become larva. When these larva swim in the water > olumn, they will then be at their most vulnerable and the salt will > elp to lead them to their d3mise as they look for a host fish. > The purpose of the heat is to speed up the process of their life cycle, > o th ey live shorter life spans. This, in=2 > 0turn, means they have less > ime to sped finding a host. > The white cottony substance you report is likely to be a fungus. Ich > ill cover a fish with what looks like salt crystals. > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > n Behalf Of > angelandchase49@... > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] ICH > > have been treating my goldfish for ich even though only one has it am > reating all as ihave no > way to isolate the one who actually has it. It is looking alot > etterbut its tail is looking a bit > chewed up. have been treating the ich with stuff bought from a store > urns water blue not > sure what the med is called but says it is for ich removal. The ick is > lmost gone now.? I do > plan on getting a new filter prob have to anyways since the old one > as the ick virus(?) on it. > and don't want to reintroduce the ich back into the tank.? how long > ast no signs of ich do i > need to treat? Also at the fish store where i got the stuff from had a > old fish that had a > white cottony like spot over its eye. Whas that ich that i saw or what > as it? > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 35102	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/31/2008
Subject: Re: HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY... SEE Y'ALL NEXT YEAR (Was RE: [Aquati

Happy 2009, everyone!!! (Lenny & Ray, I'll post my updates in the morning) DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)